# Bachmann spectrum heavy 4-8-2 repaint to CNJ Blue Comet?



## Artieiii

Thinking about a new project (even though my other projects are not done yet). I found an HO bachmann spectrum 4-8-2 heavy dcc ready for $79. I would like to repaint it to look like CNJ blue comet. I am concerned that I will have trouble taking all the little trim items off in order to repaint the shell and tender. Any advice/suggestions?
-Art


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## Big Ed

Artieiii said:


> Thinking about a new project (even though my other projects are not done yet). I found an HO bachmann spectrum 4-8-2 heavy dcc ready for $79. I would like to repaint it to look like CNJ blue comet. I am concerned that I will have trouble taking all the little trim items off in order to repaint the shell and tender. Any advice/suggestions?
> -Art



CNJ BLUE COMET


GO, ART, GO.:thumbsup:


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## trainguru

*Comet Beware*

Artieiii, that is the coolest and maddest idea ever! Go for it if you want, and take cues from the Bleu Comet, and R&BM 425! Just beware of comments like "it looks like Thomas's mother (poor 425), or a repeat of the Sopranos episode (poor guy, life long dream ended in a hail of bullets, not to mention the train shop!). So go crazy! -


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## Artieiii

The $79 project failed....I failed to notice the infamous "not in stock" note on the page. I did find a USRA 4-8-2 from another source that is $99.99. It says DCC ready but that does not tell me what's involved in the conversion. If it has an NMRA plug that's easy if not gotta heat up the soldering iron again. Not many pictures online of the original CNJ engines for the blue comet. MTH made it a 4-6-2 layout but I am not a purist a cheap 4-8-2 from the same era in the proper colors would make me happy .

Still just thinking about the idea. I was born and raised in NJ so it's something I have thought about before. Never had the balls to try it till now LOL. My grandfather would be proud of my interest in trains.
-Art


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## tjcruiser

Art,

FYI ... you may recall that I painted two of my Lionel prewar tinplate locos in Blue Comet colors ... I was trying to match traditional Lionel TOY train colors, not necessarily the real train colors. That said, here's a thread on two options of Krylon paint colors and the loco results ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=84396&postcount=42

TJ


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## Artieiii

tjcruiser said:


> That said, here's a thread on two options of Krylon paint colors and the loco results ...
> 
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=84396&postcount=42
> 
> TJ


Yep, TJ, I remember that thread, I will keep it bookmarked for future reference. There is really no good way of determining the true colors of the blue comet because color photography was not invented yet LOL. Some of the pics I have seen are artist renditions of the colors. Close (and attractive) is good enough for me  I am quite sure that your thread planted the idea in my head. It looks like the encouragement I have received may help me to start a new project.
-Art


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## NIMT

How is the Snow Blower coming along?


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## Artieiii

NIMT said:


> How is the Snow Blower coming along?


Snow blower is basically done but I had some issues with the shell repaint. The paint would not dry properly had to strip the paint left a gooey mess. The repaint came out crummy so I will have to purchase a replacement shell. For now I am using it with my crummy paint job. The track pickups really stink so I may buy the B-unit we talked about with DCC use it's track pickups and send power to the plow. 

Sean,
If I do this, I understand I would need a second decoder to run the plow speed. Not sure how to make the connections. If I have 2 decoders and I put the plow and B-unit on the program track how will I program each controller to do separate functions? Won't they both get the same packets of info from the Power Cab and be programed the same? Do I have to remove each controller to set the functions up separately?
TIA
-Art


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## Artieiii

New update:
I found a Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-2 with DCC and tsunami sound for $99. It's the wrong wheel configuration but same era. For the price I might have to make this compromise. The sound board alone would cost me this much...it's a "free" train for that price 
-Art


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## Massey

The spectrum Heavy mountain 4-8-2 has a DCC plug in the tender. I have one and it is a pretty good runner but it does not like flaws in the track.

Massey


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## Artieiii

Massey said:


> The spectrum Heavy mountain 4-8-2 has a DCC plug in the tender. I have one and it is a pretty good runner but it does not like flaws in the track.
> 
> Massey


The 4-8-2 is a better wheel configuration but the 2-10-2 has DCC and tsunami sound for the same $99 price. Really thinking about the 2-10-2.
-Art


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## NIMT

OK, Art lets see if I can cover this.
Yes the the track pickups really do stink on the plow.:thumbsdown:
The B unit would make it function so much better!:thumbsup:
To be technically correct the "Real life" B unit would not need a wheel motor drive as it's only purpose was only to provide power to the blower motor, but that's your choice.
I have done a lot of single unit twin decoder installs, I install a switch under the unit to cut power to one of the decoders at a time, then you can program the other decoder. Power from the pickups or wheels to in on switch and out of switch to decoder, same wiring for second decoder.
If you want to avoid the switches you can just disconnect one decoder at a time and program the decoder, reconnect decoders then reinstall the shell.


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## Artieiii

Thanks Sean that makes sense to me now. :thumbsup:
If I get the B-unit I would probably leave the motor functional. I might try to run a wire to the fan blades from one of the decoder's light wires and put a resistor in series to slow the fan blades down. No fan speed control but simple off and on might be ok rather than putting in a second decoder.
Thanks again
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

Okay 
Now my turn to correct some things for art. The Blue Comet is a 4-6-2 Light Pacific class steam locomotive. A G3 Pacific to be precise. There were three of them before all of them and the rest of the G3 pacifics were scrapped. The blue comet engines were numbered 831, 832, and 833. I have a thread that discuss's this locomotive in a lot of detail as well as key features of it.

Here it is, this should help you a lot on your making of the blue comet locomotive so it can be more prototypical if you wish it to be.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=4728&highlight=standard+gauge


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## NIMT

Art,
I have mine set on function output and it spins great for me!
I did keep the factory control board hooked up though!


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## Artieiii

gc53dfgc,
I have done a bit of research on this topic. I did not know that the blue comet engine was a "pacific" variety though thanks for the tip. I was under the impression they were of the "heavy" variety. I cannot justify $300 for a broadway limited 4-8-2 pacific model and then start repainting it. I am trying to keep the price as low as possible and still have DCC and sound and an engine of similar vintage. So far I have found a Bachmann 4-8-2 "heavy" DCC ready for $99. and a 2-10-2 light with DCC and Tsunami sound onboard for $99. I know the wheel arrangement is not prototypical but the price may make the decision for me. Life if full of compromises. I figure if my attempts fail I can pull the Tsunami out and use it in my GS4 SP Daylight and use the 2-10-2 as a nice paperweight. Hopefully that will not be necessary.
-Art


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## Artieiii

NIMT said:


> Art,
> I have mine set on function output and it spins great for me!
> I did keep the factory control board hooked up though!


Sean,
Mine is set up with the SDH164D for sound and fan blade speed. 1 function output is wired to the headlights on the plow and 1 function output is wired to a red LED in double pulse strobe mode. The main issue is the track pickups are crappy and the sound and fan goes off an on on different parts of the layout despite a thorough cleaning of the track. My factory control board in the trash.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

Art,

I said it was a G3* 4-6-2* Pacific not a 4-8-2. Here is a picture showing the wheel arrangement of the Pacific and its tender which is what makes it a heavy or a light.
















See a 4-6-2 G3 Light Pacific
No one has made any 4-6-2 pacifics in model form for a long time now. If you want a blue comet styled engine and want it to look like one get an AHM Rivarossi 4-6-2 Blue comet or similar. That saves you the time and work of painting but still lets you add the sound decoder and all of the detail parts. That would be under 200-300 dollars I believe and also be more accurate. I am personally saving up for a Brass imports 4-6-2 fully super detailed Blue Comet engine which is going to be like 1K but is the most accurate one out there and if you read that thread of mine you know that I am planning on someday building that engine so I figure getting a really well detailed and accurate model of the finished thing would help get supporters and followers.


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## Massey

Now I know what engine is in your avatar, GC. It sure is pretty. Did the paint ever discolor around the firebox? I remember reading about the way they used to paint the firebox and smoke boxes with a special aluminum based paint to prevent discoloration and paint fires from the normal enamels used for the rest of the engines.

Massey


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## Artieiii

I found this today:
http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/4-6-2-Pacific-w-Long-Haul-CN-HO
DCC ready with 9 pin plug more prototypical than the 4-8-2 idea. Still would require a repaint and some decals as well as a sound board.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

Massey said:


> Now I know what engine is in your avatar, GC. It sure is pretty. Did the paint ever discolor around the firebox? I remember reading about the way they used to paint the firebox and smoke boxes with a special aluminum based paint to prevent discoloration and paint fires from the normal enamels used for the rest of the engines.
> 
> Massey


It would make sense that they used a special paint do to the emense heat. I would imagine it was a mix of the blue colors with the aluminum so as to keep the color but not have fires also.



Artieiii said:


> I found this today:
> http://www.hobbywarehouse.com/4-6-2-Pacific-w-Long-Haul-CN-HO
> DCC ready with 9 pin plug more prototypical than the 4-8-2 idea. Still would require a repaint and some decals as well as a sound board.
> -Art


Now that is a 4-6-2 which is about as close as you are going to get to the Blue Comet. You will need to convert the tender to two axle trucks instead of three and then add a bunch of detail parts like the elesco feedwater heater on the front, the Pyle national dynamo just infront of the cab, and the piping and air compressors and injectors for the engine. You may also need to add the strong boxs that are on the front of the Blue Comet which are not on all locomotives.


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## Artieiii

GC,
I placed an order today for a Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-2 K4 Pacific. 
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Bachmann-Spectrum-HO-84101-4-6-2-K4-Post-War-with-p/bac-84101.htm
When it arrives will try my hand at my first steamer repaint in Blue Comet colors. BTW what was that tank on the front of the the boiler used for on the Blue Comet? The model I ordered does not have that. It reminds me of the old "gasser" drag cars from the 50's and 60's LOL.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

That cylindrical tank on the very top in front of the smoke stack was the Elesco Feedwater heater which in a sense reclaimed some of the steam and then superheated more steam before entering the boiler. This is also where "The Blue Comet" metal rectangle plate was hung on. The feedwater heater has never been put on any factory models of the Blue Comet so this is alwasy a super detail part that has to be added. Let me know if you need any other information aobut the locomotive and the cars it pulled as I would be more then willing to help you get this custom project done right.


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## Artieiii

I got my Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-2 PRR Pacific in the mail today. Strong runner with DCC onboard......very quiet. Now it's on my bench partially disassembled ready for Blue Comet colors. I worked on the tender first. Blue paint on the tender with tape covering the coal. Trucks painted darker blue and wheel centers hand painted with the lighter blue. Gonna wait for the paint to dry then reassemble the tender to make sure I got it together properly before I tackle the much more difficult repaint of the engine. I am pleased to find that the engine has a small Elesco Feedwater heater on it's nose. Not as big as the blue comet's but it's there.
Here is my inspiration for the paint job: Not sure how I am gonna get the gold accent stripes on there.








-Art
Will post pix when the paint dries.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The classic way to do the stripes is to paint it gold, then put down the skinny tape over the stripe area and paint it flue. Use very light coats so it won't run under the tape.


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## Artieiii

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The classic way to do the stripes is to paint it gold, then put down the skinny tape over the stripe area and paint it flue. Use very light coats so it won't run under the tape.


Gunrunner you just want to see it gold like the Fort Knox Express LOL.
-Art


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## bradimous1

I am really looking forward to seeing this finished product!!!


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## Big Ed

Artieiii said:


> Gunrunner you just want to see it gold like the Fort Knox Express LOL.
> -Art



They do sell dry transfer tape you know?
This one is yellow.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160571458393?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

Item number:160571458393 if the link don't work.


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## Artieiii

big ed said:


> They do sell dry transfer tape you know?
> This one is yellow.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160571458393?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
> 
> Item number:160571458393 if the link don't work.


Great idea Big Ed. I'll look into that idea. Maybe I can find them at the local craft shop.
-Art


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## gunrunnerjohn

Artieiii said:


> Gunrunner you just want to see it gold like the Fort Knox Express LOL.
> -Art


Well, that is one of the easier ways to get a neat gold stripe.  I would like to see it all gold before the blue, just for yucks.


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## NIMT

Automotive pin striping!


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## gunrunnerjohn

That's low class. All the pinstripe tape I've seen used on cars was problematic, nothing like real paint.


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## Artieiii

Another idea, If I make a decal with the gold square I could just stick it on there. I gotta make decals for the CNJ logo and the engine numbers anyway. Something like this might work.
-Art


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## NIMT

Great Idea.
Are we talking your decals (Avery) or water slide decals?
With a water slide your going to want to pull your hair out trying to set such a large decal!


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'd think a water slide decal of that size would indeed be pretty tricky!


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## gc53dfgc

My only head to the decal is if it is not the whole size of the tender it will darken what it covers but not the rest so it could result in very odd color mixes. I think just taping it with masking tape leaving only the space where gold will be uncovered and then getting a small brush and going over the open with a gold type paint or better yet an airbrush. Doing it this way makes sure there is not enough paint to get under the tape and also lets you get a nice stripe.


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## Artieiii

gc53dfgc said:


> My only head to the decal is if it is not the whole size of the tender it will darken what it covers but not the rest so it could result in very odd color mixes. I think just taping it with masking tape leaving only the space where gold will be uncovered and then getting a small brush and going over the open with a gold type paint or better yet an airbrush. Doing it this way makes sure there is not enough paint to get under the tape and also lets you get a nice stripe.


That's what I did and it came out pretty good...not perfect but acceptable to me. Painting is basicly done now having trouble getting the running gear back together. The exploded diagram is not in enough detail for me.
-Art


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## Artieiii

Almost done. Painted the shell blue with dark blue roof and tank highlights. Front of the 1/3 of the boiler is silver. Gold accent border on the tender. Really looks sharp. My wife says it's now her favorite . Test run on the tracks and all is well. It's gotta wait till next payday to get a sound decoder inside. Repainting steamers is not easy. Will post pix when the paint dries and my decals in place.
-Art


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## Artieiii

Here is a pic of the "done" side. Not perfect but it's mine. Other side of the paint is still a bit tacky can't put the decals or the gold accents on yet.
-Art


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## xrunner

Very nice paint job! :thumbsup:


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## Artieiii

Thanks xrunner,
It's nice to see that Bachmann is now making more and more tenders with built in speaker enclosure and speaker holes in the bottom. It should be a piece of cake to put one in like it was on my replacement Bachmann GS4.
-Art


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## searstractorfan

I was at the local hobby shop and grazed through the O gauge stuff, and they had a blue comet O gauge in their!!! haha I knew I new the name blue comet for a reason!!! its from this thread!


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## Artieiii

searstractorfan said:


> I was at the local hobby shop and grazed through the O gauge stuff, and they had a blue comet O gauge in their!!! haha I knew I new the name blue comet for a reason!!! its from this thread!


My LHS has an O scale Lionel Blue Comet. Looks like a real nice one. He keeps in a case that may be locked. It does not have a price on it. 
-Art


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## Artieiii

Anybody know whats causing my 4-6-2 to squeak? It seems to be from the non driving wheels on the engine and tender. Maybe some overspray got in the truck sides. I tried to add some lube but that does not seem to do anything. I thought a little lube and some laps on the track but no relief. It runs fine, no binding. I may have to order one of those wheel tuning thigamabobs. Anybody know who makes them?
-Art


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## tjcruiser

Are you sure it's the wheels, and not the drive rod assembly somewhere? Try to isolate the issue. Push the tender (only) around the track to see if it squeaks. Ditto for the loco only. I wouldn't rule out the pickup rollers ... they can squeak, too.

What lube are you using?

TJ


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## Artieiii

A little trick I figured out. With my homemade labels/decals I try to trim them as close as I can with scissors then stick them on the paint and be sure they are stuck on really well then I take the background paint on a small brush and go over the edges of the decal just a little. Paint from the brush goes on a bit thicker than the spray so it fills in the gap between the sticker and the paint and hides the border nicely.
-Art


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks great!


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## Artieiii

tjcruiser said:


> Are you sure it's the wheels, and not the drive rod assembly somewhere? Try to isolate the issue. Push the tender (only) around the track to see if it squeaks. Ditto for the loco only. I wouldn't rule out the pickup rollers ... they can squeak, too.
> 
> What lube are you using?
> 
> TJ


I solved the squeaking issues. It was the rear trailing unpowered axle and the tender trucks. It's weird, the rear unpowered truck on the engine does not have points on the axle. The ends of the axle are flat. Initially I skipped lubing it cause I could not figure out how to pull the axle. There were 2 screws holding it together. Now it's nice a quiet. Gotta decide on what sound board to put in it's tender. I also had another issue. The engine was getting hooked on my atlas turnouts. It would stop with a thud. Took awhile to figure what it was hitting. I found that there are imitation brake shoes behind the aft powered wheels protruded way down and bumped on part of the turnout. They were so low that they also lifted the engine a bit on my re-railers. I trimmed them a bit with my dremel.
-Art


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## Big Ed

Looks great:thumbsup:....did you paint the hand rails a darker blue too?

Now on to the Blue Comet Passenger cars.:thumbsup:


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## Artieiii

big ed said:


> Looks great:thumbsup:....did you paint the hand rails a darker blue too?
> 
> Now on to the Blue Comet Passenger cars.:thumbsup:


Thanks all for the encouragement. No Big Ed I did not paint the handrails the darker blue. I think the shadows in the pic look that way but that's a great idea! That would be simple enough to do with a brush. I was considering doing that to the ladder on the back of the tender. Yes BigEd, I am planning on getting some era correct heavyweight passenger cars and using the same paint for the cars. If I look around on Ebay I should be able to find decent ones in a roadname that nobody wants to get a god deal. Will have to see what's out there. The only blue comet ones on Ebay are rivarrossi ones and I am not a fan.....plastic wheels, horn hook couplers and couplers on the trucks :thumbsdown:
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

Art. The only heavyweight car the Blue Comet pulled was the baggage car. All of the other cars were lightweight two axle per truck cars. If you are okay with having heavyweights that is by all means fine.

Here are to of the original cars.
















Note that the cars trucks have not been switched aside from having air tanks for air braks added to them along with a few other mods but nothing to the trucks or main body.


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## Artieiii

gc53dfgc said:


> Art. The only heavyweight car the Blue Comet pulled was the baggage car. All of the other cars were lightweight two axle per truck cars.


Thanks GC, I did not know that. I keep learning as I go.
-Art


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## Artieiii

Thanks for the passenger car pix GC. That will give me a starting point. Gotta hold off on passenger cars for the moment got other things in the works.
-Art


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## Big Ed

You want pictures?
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rslist.aspx?id=CNJ

Look at the list and to the right click on Former BC passenger cars, lots of color pictures there.
Not too many colored pictures of the engines.

They were not heavyweights?

*heavy weight *- During the 'Standard' or 'Conventional' era of passenger car building which began in 1910 with an order by the Pennsylvania Railroad of cars of all steel construction.
Prior to this time, railroad passenger cars had been built of largely wood. Today, cars from this era are commonly known as 'heavy weights' due to the high weight of the cars. 

The heavy weight era came to a close with the beginning of construction of stainless steel sided or 'Streamlined' or 'light weights' in the 1940's.



A copy and paste if you want to read it,

*The Blue Comet (CNJ)*​ *The Blue Comet is one of the most famous named trains in the country. This is rather remarkable when it is considered that the CNJ was a fairly small railroad and that the train ran for only a few years. Its first run was on 02/21/1929 and it ran until 09/27/1941 when it fell to automobiles.*
*The Blue Comet ran from Jersey City to Atlantic City by following the NY&LB to Red Bank where it turned south on the former New Jersey Southern until it reached Winslow Jct (outside of Hammonton, NJ) where it turned onto the former Camden & Atlantic.*
*The Blue Comet was pulled by a Royal Blue Pacific (4-6-2) and consisted of Heavy Weight coaches, a dinner, combination, observation and baggage cars. All the cars were painted in a matching blue with a egg-shell stripe at window level. In addition, each car was named after a comet. *
*Engines: **Pacific: *_*831,832,833 *_*- None survived*​*Cars: **Baggage: *_*391 Olbers, 392 Barnard*_
*Coach: *_*1170 Tuttle, 1171 Holmes, 1172 Westphal, 1173 D'Arrest, 1174 Faye, 1175 Spitaler, 1176 Winnecke, 1177 Brosen*_
*Combination: *_*300 Halley,*__*302 Encke *_*(Where is 301?)*
*Dinner: *_*81 Giacobini*_
*Observation: *_*1169 Tempel, 1178 DeVico, 1179 Biela*_






_*Check out the link up top, go through the site and search for the pictures.



*_







_*


 *_​


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## gc53dfgc

I see Ed that you know of one of my sources for The Blue Comet. If you need more picture Art I would be more then willing to post them for you. From when they where in use to present if you need them.


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## Artieiii

Thanks Big Ed and GC,
This info will help in my decision process for my Blue Comet passenger cars. This build is on hold for now as I have ordered a few things for my layout. 

I ordered a Digitrax PR3 so I can customize the sounds on my engines. I also ordered an SDH164D for my Blue Comet engine. I also ordered an NCE USB computer interface to run my trains with JMRI and a cheap Chinese Android tablet to use with WiThrottle. Last thing on my list is a universal throttle pocket to hold my Power Cab. I am building a test track so I can program off the main lines of my shelf layout. Right now I am using 4 Altas switches but they are in manual mode. I would like to wire the turnouts with conventional wiring and run the wires from the box under my test track. This will help hide the wiring and keep the wires in a central location next to my man cave lazy boy chair.  My plan is to get one of those 2 way knife switches to switch between test track power and power to the main line of the layout. Gotta see if Radio Shack has this. I wired some red LED's to the bumpers of the test track so I can look at it to see if it has power or if the lights are out power goes to the main.
Here is a pic:
-Art


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## Artieiii

Ok, I went to Radio Shack and bought one of those 2 way knife switches. On way powers the test track the other way powers the main. Cool :thumbsup:
-Art


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> I see Ed that you know of one of my sources for The Blue Comet. If you need more picture Art I would be more then willing to post them for you. From when they where in use to present if you need them.



But what did you mean they were not heavyweights?

The cars were all heavyweights at the time. 

They did not start building lightweights till the 30's.
Then they were all lightweights in the 40's.

The Blue Comet cars were from the 20's.


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## santafe158

Just want to point out, that appliance you think is a feedwater heater on the front of your model is really the dynamo for the headlight (mounted PRR style).


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## Artieiii

Thanks Santafe I learn something new everyday.
BTW, I got rid of the DPDT blade switch for my test track It did not keep a solid connection on one side. I replaced it with a DPDT toggle switch from Radio Shack. It has a much more satisfying snap when it's lever is moved and holds a better connection. It also takes up less space and the wires are hidden under the test track lid.
-Art


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## NIMT

Putting lights that run off of the main track wiring will really mess you up when it comes time to program!
It's also a bad idea to power any accessories off of the track DCC supply, it will mess with the digital signals!


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## Artieiii

OK Sean thanks for your suggestion. It's easy enough to remedy. I am sending you a PM.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

So Ed you are telling me these cars pictured below are running on heavyweight trucks which is what makes them heavyweights? Are you thinking of a streamlined car over a traditional car? Remember also that the Blue Comet cars were completely redone in 1925 to modernize them for the time which is close to the 30's.


















































Some of the pictures it is hard to tell that they have the two axle trucks over heavyweight trucks so you may need to save the picture then go and zoom in on the trucks to see it. You can also look at the Trainz Blue Comet on Google and see that those cars are all normal light weight or duty cars and those are also historically accurate for the train.


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> So Ed you are telling me these cars pictured below are running on heavyweight trucks which is what makes them heavyweights?





gc53dfgc said:


> Though most heavyweights had 6 wheeled bogies there were 4 wheeled bogies on heavyweights too.
> 
> The term heavyweight is just that, the cars were heavy compared to the wooden cars what they replaced.
> The term lightweight came about as they replaced the heavyweights with a lighter material.
> The bogies had nothing to do with determining a heavyweight car from a lightweight.


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## gc53dfgc

big ed said:


> Though most heavyweights had 3 wheeled bogies there were 2 wheeled bogies on heavyweights too.
> 
> The term heavyweight is just that, the cars were heavy compared to the wooden cars what they replaced.
> The term lightweight came about as they replaced the heavyweights with a lighter material.
> The bogies had nothing to do with determining a heavyweight car from a lightweight.


Ok Ed, I was not aware of that. All the train cars I have seen on ebay or at store have all only been labeled heavyweights if they had three axle trucks on them.


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> Ok Ed, I was not aware of that. All the train cars I have seen on ebay or at store have all only been labeled heavyweights if they had three axle trucks on them.



Did you know that early heavyweights were just a steel frame with wood sides and had 6" slab of concrete in the floors to improve the ride. As heavyweights evolved most did have the 6 wheel bogie as the cars got longer and heavier. 

A copy and paste, (I hope Art doesn't mind.)

A little heavyweight history for those who want to read,

The heavyweight passenger car came into existence after the turn of the century. It's design evolved from the recognized inadequacies of the older wooden coaches. Wooden coaches served the railroads well for many years, but it's not clear that they served the passengers all that well. Wooden coaches had significant passenger safety and comfort problems. The cars were fairly light so that older and smaller engines could handle them. However from their lightness, came serious problems. They didn't ride well, especially as speeds increased past 20 or 30 mph and they weren't very strong. The wooden construction wasn't sturdy enough to hold up in a wreck so that cars often broke up and splintered badly even in minor accidents. The hot coals from the stoves used for heating were often scattered among kindling that was formally the structure of the car and started horrible fires. The cars had no compressive strength so that cars often "telescoped" in a wreck with one car simply plowing through another, often killing everybody in the telescoped car.
Wooden cars rode pretty poorly. After a day of bumping and swaying, one's body could hurt all over from trying to correct for the car's movement. The early railroads provided a smoother ride than a stagecoach, but it was still much worse than an automobile on a fair road. This is one of the reasons that the railroads lost short haul passenger traffic to automobiles.
Steel cars came into being to service the long haul and commuter markets. First the cars just had steel frames, but eventually, the whole car was made of steel and vestibules were added to the cars. This had the desirable effect of eliminating the end platforms allowing safer and more comfortable car to car access. Much more important is that the vestibules were structurally integrated into the car bodies so that the cars did not tend to telescope in a wreck. The cars would often derail in accordion fashion instead but at least they wouldn't be crushed. Cars could roll over completely and still retain something like their original shape. Low pressure steam heat replaced coal heat and electric light replaced oil lamps, which with the elimination of all of that wood, sharply reduced the tendency for fires to start after a wreck.
The cars were called "heavyweights" for a very good reason. Besides the steel used in construction, the cars often had a six inch slab of concrete cast into their floors. This added a lot of sprung mass which made the car bodies tend to resist the tendency to bump and bounce over track irregularities. This resulted in significantly improved riding qualities, especially at the high speeds often used in the late steam era. Only significant improvements in suspensions allows the newer and lighter streamlined cars to ride better.


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## Artieiii

Thanks for the history lesson Big Ed. I learn something everyday.:thumbsup: Can't wait for my PR3 sound loader to arrive. Working on custom sound project from sound bites I found online for The Blue Comet. The train was run in 1975 so I am using those sounds. I think the original engine was scrapped but the engine they used was recorded. The whistle was very distinctive and I want to capture it for my model as well as the chuff sounds.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

All of the original Blue Comets were scrapped in the late 40's to early 50's when the CNJ found no more use for them. There was a 4-6-2 (looked like a Chessie engine) Pacific that they had haul a memorial type Blue Comet train though neither the engine or the cars were repainted to Blue Comet colors like for the freedom train.


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## Artieiii

Went to the train show in NJ today with my wife. I picked up 3 IHC heavyweight passenger cars with mchenry coupler conversion for $10 each. Starting my repaint to blue comet colors tonight. I saw a couple of O scale Lionel blue comet engines and passenger cars from around 1980. I did not get them but they looked very nice.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

I was going to tell you that Bethlehem Car works makes all of the HO scale Blue Comet cars and they are completely accurate not just cars from other roads repainted. The only car they do not make is an observation but the observation car was just a coach with the end of one side chopped off so there where no doors and replaced with an outside opening for standing on.


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## Artieiii

I will have to live with my compromises. Bethlehem car works cars are too much $$ for me. Besides even Lionel made compromises, their blue comet was a 4-6-4 configuration I saw this at the train show and was surprised.








-Art


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## gc53dfgc

yeah,

It is strange that every manufacture no matter the scale has made compromises for their Blue Comet offerings. Lionel never had an accurate engine, MTH skimped on engine detailing (maybe not for the premier line one), IHC added in cars and just repainted other types of cars. Rivarossi just guessed with their cars. Bethlehem did not skimp at least but they don't offer the observation. Always a compromise with the Blue Comet for some reason.

Also the Lionel engine in your picture is not even the right road number which would have been 881, 882, 883.


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## Artieiii

gc53dfgc said:


> Also the Lionel engine in your picture is not even the right road number which would have been 881, 882, 883.


GC,
Yeah I noticed that when I posted the pic. I did not notice the road number at the show.....that's not a compromise, that's just idiotic LOL.
-Art


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## Artieiii

Here is a before and after pic of one of my 3 almost completed blue comet cars. I still need to add decals but the paint job came out very nice. I still have to tweak these cars because they are IHC with crappy trucks and plastic wheels. I plan on changing the stupid plastic push pins that hold the trucks on the chassis with some real screws so that they don't wobble and add metal wheels. Maybe convert to body mounted kadee couplers too. Since this picture was taken I added the gold stripe under the windows too.
-Art


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looking good!


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## tjcruiser

Art,

Paintwork looks great. True Comet colors ... or so we think!

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

Well from all the research I have done on the engine and the few color pictures of the cars that exist you are almost right. The roof remained a black color, your middle portion is correct and true. Some would say a slightly darker color but not by much but we can just leave that up to personal preference as paint would start to fade after one day and within a year would be a different shade. Where the steps are and below including the boxs and the trucks would be a darker blue similar to the color for the roof.

These color choices and placement are based off of the limited historical facts of the engine and the real photos of the cars.


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## Artieiii

GC,
I was unable to paint the undercarriage without complete disassembly of the engine so I left it black. From the shelf layout it's hard to see that part anyway. I am considering getting an airbrush now will have to see how my finances are. Thanks for the encouragement TJ.
-Art


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## Big Ed

Artieiii said:


> GC,
> I was unable to paint the undercarriage without complete disassembly of the engine so I left it black. From the shelf layout it's hard to see that part anyway. I am considering getting an airbrush now will have to see how my finances are. Thanks for the encouragement TJ.
> -Art


Art what do you mean without quick disassembly of the engine? Did you mean car?
Nice paint job.:thumbsup:

By the way this picture I posted I just noticed was of a Jersey Coast car.
Looks like the Blue Comet colors though.hwell:


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## Artieiii

Sorry big ed, I thought GC was talking about the undercarriage of the loco which I had to leave black. Good ideal to paint the trucks the darker blue I think I will do that. 
Last night I pulled those crappy IHC truck push pins and replaced with screws. I also added a washer between the body of the car and the trucks.....no more wobble. 1 of the holes for the screws hit the weights the previous owner had glued inside and made the drill go in crooked. I gotta pick up some epoxy to fill the hole and re-drill the hole. Oh well things happen.
-Art


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## Artieiii

Wow big ed, that does look like the blue comet paint job. That looks to me like the whippany rail museum. I drive past there sometimes when I go to the JR cigar shop. My grandfather took me on that train ride when I was a kid.
-Art


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## tjcruiser

Art,

The "Comet" looks great. Very nice work.

On my tinplate stuff, I often put a gold pinstripe around the steamchest and other areas using a Pilot Gold Marker (basically, a paint pen) like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Gold-Marker-extra-point/dp/B000EFPEIE

If there's a slight recess in way of where you're putting the stripe (like in way of an inset square on the face of a steamchest), it's relatively easy to carefully slide the pen around the perimeter of the recess, yielding a very crisp, straight line. The recess edge acts as its own ruler guide.

For non-recessed work, I've taken a few stabs at lines with the pen using a drafting triangle as a straight edge guide. But, importantly, the triangle has a cutback edge profile to avoid letting the gold paint bleed underneath the triangle while you're marking the stripe.

Keep us posted on any additional decals/accents ... it really looks great!

TJ


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## Artieiii

tjcruiser said:


> Art,
> 
> The "Comet" looks great. Very nice work.
> 
> On my tinplate stuff, I often put a gold pinstripe around the steamchest and other areas using a Pilot Gold Marker (basically, a paint pen) like this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Gold-Marker-extra-point/dp/B000EFPEIE
> 
> If there's a slight recess in way of where you're putting the stripe (like in way of an inset square on the face of a steamchest), it's relatively easy to carefully slide the pen around the perimeter of the recess, yielding a very crisp, straight line. The recess edge acts as its own ruler guide.
> 
> For non-recessed work, I've taken a few stabs at lines with the pen using a drafting triangle as a straight edge guide. But, importantly, the triangle has a cutback edge profile to avoid letting the gold paint bleed underneath the triangle while you're marking the stripe.
> 
> Keep us posted on any additional decals/accents ... it really looks great!
> 
> TJ


tj i spent 2days trying to get the cars to track properly. Added metal wheels got rid of the crappy Ihc plastic push pins and added new mchenry couplers. Next step is to make decals. i tried to find one of those pens but could only find silver. i ended up getting gold acrylic paint masked the stripes and painted with a brush.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc

Hey Art and Ed. 
Art, your cars are perfectly fine and look nice, I was just saying what the cars really looked like. Ed, that is the observation car that the museum redid by taking an old coach and converting it. Their paint scheme is okay but it is not accurate to the original. Historic documents and this is even said in I think (the seashores finest train) that the cars had three colors each. Light blue, dark blue, and a cream color. Each color signified something about New Jersey but I am sure you already know this. 









Tempel is one of the three observation cars and somehow it has evaded any outside restoration work or repaint until recently. It might still not be messed with but I think I read somewhere it was redone. Tempel has the original paint scheme still on it faded but still there and you can see it goes. Dark blue, light blue, cream, light blue, and a black roof. 

Again Arts is a model and should be done to his liking and it is not a big deal that it is not true to the prototype.


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## Artieiii

I got my Digitrax PR3 sound programmer back from digitrax today. Now it works properly. I was able to reprogram my sound project with sounds recorded from 1975 when they ran an era correct 4-6-2 steamer to commemorate the original blue comet (I got it from youtube). The steam whistle sounds like a cross between a steam whistle and a fog horn.....very unique. The chuff sounds came out perfect. If anyone wants a copy of my modified sound project, I will be happy to share it. It takes a lot of trial and error to get the sounds right but it is very satisfying to have a completely unique sound project.
-Art


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> Hey Art and Ed.
> Art, your cars are perfectly fine and look nice, I was just saying what the cars really looked like. Ed, that is the observation car that the museum redid by taking an old coach and converting it. Their paint scheme is okay but it is not accurate to the original. Historic documents and this is even said in I think (the seashores finest train) that the cars had three colors each. Light blue, dark blue, and a cream color. Each color signified something about New Jersey but I am sure you already know this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tempel is one of the three observation cars and somehow it has evaded any outside restoration work or repaint until recently. It might still not be messed with but I think I read somewhere it was redone. Tempel has the original paint scheme still on it faded but still there and you can see it goes. Dark blue, light blue, cream, light blue, and a black roof.
> 
> Again Arts is a model and should be done to his liking and it is not a big deal that it is not true to the prototype.




Did you read post #79?

I saw my mistake after I posted, if that is what your talking about.


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## gc53dfgc

big ed said:


> Did you read post #79?
> 
> I saw my mistake after I posted, if that is what your talking about.


Ed, I posted that about three weeks ago. I was not meaning it to be mean just pointing out the true colors. Now as you know you can not modify a post after 24 hours so if you changed what you had and I did not notice it in that 24 hour period I can not change my post. Its just a model after all and not even yours or mine so if it is not accurate perfectly it does not matter to much > am just making sure that the right information is given and kept where people can find it so people do not forget it.

Nothing against you at all.


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> Ed, I posted that about three weeks ago. I was not meaning it to be mean just pointing out the true colors. Now as you know you can not modify a post after 24 hours so if you changed what you had and I did not notice it in that 24 hour period I can not change my post. Its just a model after all and not even yours or mine so if it is not accurate perfectly it does not matter to much > am just making sure that the right information is given and kept where people can find it so people do not forget it.
> 
> Nothing against you at all.



I don't care.

My big letters were not yelling.

I saw my mistake and told him back when.
Colors are close though.


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## gc53dfgc

big ed said:


> I don't care.
> 
> My big letters were not yelling.
> 
> I saw my mistake and told him back when.
> Colors are close though.


That's true the repainted car is close in color matching just not location.:laugh:


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