# Here is your chance.................



## gnnpnut (Oct 19, 2016)

to plop down your green. You would own not only a magazine that you can tailor to your own likes, but control of a very large forum on which you can impose your own desired level of censorship, or lack thereof. 

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/ogr-to-be-sold?reply=67173828757588909#67173828757588909

Regards,

gnnpnut


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

funny.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

It will be interesting on what a new owner of the magazine does with the forum.

Bill


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Be interesting if there is interest.
For some reason I like it here and the fellowship.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Do they have a buyer already? 

Who do you contact about it if you are intersted?


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Go for it, Lee!!


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## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

I really hope that people can eventually get back together on one forum. Each forum loses by being fractured. It's such a small overall population to begin with.

All I know is that whoever takes over OGR will hopefully get rid of that awful forum software they moved to. It hurts my eyes and way too busy.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Is it going to go for sale to the public? I'd be curious to see what the price tag would be for something like that. I just hope it doesn't fall into the wrong hands


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## seacoast (Sep 12, 2010)

njrailer93 said:


> Is it going to go for sale to the public? I'd be curious to see what the price tag would be for something like that. I just hope it doesn't fall into the wrong hands


Wrong hands, I would not want it to go to Kalmbach. The post was deleted after 2 dozen responses.  The announcement was made at York hardly top secret. Forums have to compete with social media. OGR does have a hill to climb as does every forum and print magazine in today's socially connected digital world that is ever changing.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I would think that trying to sell a magazine dedicated to electric trains will be a tough sell.

Bill


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

towdog said:


> All I know is that whoever takes over OGR will hopefully get rid of that awful forum software they moved to. It hurts my eyes and way too busy.


 I agree with that. The whole bumping thing is ridiculous. Now every page has the top 33% covered by rules and announcements.

I guess in there defense, they are hobbyists just like the rest of us, Maybe Kalmbach is not such a bad idea....


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

As magazines go, I prefer CTT...by a little. As forums go, I prefer MTF...by far.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Lee Willis said:


> Do they have a buyer already?
> 
> Who do you contact about it if you are intersted?


WOW Lee! If you buy it, you could sell share and we would all be stockholders.
Can't think of anyone else that could run a forum like that better then you.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

The original OGR post was deleted, but google has a cached version:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Cst1jY1CRToJgrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/ogr-to-be-sold%3Freply%3D67173828757588909+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I agree, Lee should buy it!
Heck, maybe WE ALL should chip in and buy it!

Rich Melvin will go crazy not having anyone to dis-respect, ban, posts to delete, spout BS to, and patronize.
I feel sorry for whomever is on the receiving end of all his free time.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2016)

Selling a publication in a very limited market like ours can be a huge challenge. Putting the word on the street does not necessarily get this job done. I wonder how the advertisers are reacting to this news?????????? 

If it were me, I would not have made any announcement until when or if there is a buyer. 

I am not surprised at this news however.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2016)

I went to click on the link, and typical of them, what do you find?

*DELETED*

The old lock the barn door after the horse is out trick.


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## Alexander (Apr 11, 2016)

+1 to the rather lengthy list of things that puzzle me about the OGR forum, a public announcement made that the principle owners are retiring, then when forum members start a thread and begin to comment, the thread is deleted.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

seayakbill said:


> I would think that trying to sell a magazine dedicated to electric trains will be a tough sell.
> 
> Bill


I agree as to making money. The magazine, not so much I suspect. But the website may be making good money. Based on the advertising rates I paid when I was there, it was pulling in a lot of cash - a real cash cow. Of course I don't know how much it costs to feed that cow - maybe they weren't making a lot of money because their expenses were high. But they were a small shop with not alot of people to pay, and it was generating revenue. So maybe . . . . 

Ameritown Buildings, and their other publications were always has been a potential gold mine for them that they just weren't exploiting well, in my opinion - no imagination there in what they could do with them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Truthfully, it isn't all that expensive to run a decent website, I've known folks doing it for a few hundred a month and hosting an impressive number of users. I never had the desire to do it myself.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I went to click on the link, and typical of them, what do you find?
> 
> *DELETED*
> 
> The old lock the barn door after the horse is out trick.


Do a google search to find the cached version, it worked for me.

1) Go to google
2) Set your search to "past week"
3) Type in "OGR to be sold"


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...opic/ogr-to-be-sold+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

chipset35 said:


> The original OGR post was deleted ...


Now isn't that a novel occurrence. 

All kidding aside, i agree with Brian. Why make the announcement before there's a buyer? Unless perhaps the initial buyer searches have come up empty.

They're siting retirement as the reason for selling now, but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than that. Timing is everything in life, and it's probably easier to sell a magazine now then it will be in another 5 or 10 years.

It's no secret that print publications are challenged by the onslaught of changes brought about by digital technologies. Think about it... Years ago, being published in a magazine was likely the epitome of recognition in the hobby. Today? Not as much so. We have forums for instant information sharing. And anybody can build their own website or Facebook presence for all the world to see, share and enjoy.

The real assets for a publication are largely their subscription list and forum membership info. That, after all, is what the forum sponsors are paying for... namely all the _visibility_ that comes with the website traffic.

I'm thinking out loud here a bit, but I wonder if the OGR forum is actually more valuable to a buyer today than the OGR magazine itself -- given the way asset value is determined in the digital world. 

David


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Now isn't that a novel occurrence.
> 
> . . . . . I wonder if the OGR forum is actually more valuable to a buyer today than the OGR magazine itself -- given the way asset value is determined in the digital world.
> 
> David


I'm thinking the same thing.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2016)

Get your popcorn and soda pop before the show begins.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Funny that I find this information out on MTF...heavy censorship and moderation over there, is a big part of the reason I am here.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> ...All kidding aside, i agree with Brian. Why make the announcement before there's a buyer? Unless perhaps the initial buyer searches have come up empty...


Then why delete the announcement? If you're using the forum as a way to find a buyer, then they just killed a source of advertising.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

I can think of 2 recent magazines that met their demise. When articles became fillers from past issues, rumors were denied by the publisher they were in trouble. They were still taking renewals and advertisers dollars. In fact one magazine began offering life subscriptions with a pistol thrown in. Arguments were hot and heavy on websites about the possibility they were going under, both sides back and forth. 4 months later they went under. Life subscriptions ended, (never did state if life of the subscriber or life of the magazine).
I noticed many empty spaces at magazine/book stores Many spaces filled with just Special Issue type magazines at high price dollars. 
To be honest, I did subscribe to their magazine for 2 years, but it never helped further my enjoyment in the hobby, so dropped it. I can get more and better info here.
We use to have over 20 monthly magazines subscriptions, now just 3.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Who knows what insanity lurks in the minds of the OGRites!


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Speculation is always fun. 

What if OGR does find a buyer and the new owner decides to keep the forum but there will be an annual subscription charge. Will any OGR forumites bail out instead of paying.

Bill


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

How long is a road? Same kind of question. Obviously, it'll depend on how much and what you get for your money. I'd be VERY surprised if someone came in and immediately slapped a fee for access on the spot, that would certainly produce a significant exodus I would imagine.


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

When I told my wife about it, she said, "don't get any ideas...."

Peter


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Speculation is always fun.
> 
> What if OGR does find a buyer and the new owner decides to keep the forum but there will be an annual subscription charge. Will any OGR forumites bail out instead of paying.
> 
> Bill


So let me understand this... Members create an ENORMOUS AMOUNT of the content over there which has made the place valuable enough to have sponsors in the first place. And now somebody is gonna charge members a membership fee to keep creating the content that the owners are making money on? I don't think so. 

I've put up with disrespectful and heavy-handed moderation over there for years, but I (along with a bunch of other folks I'm sure) would be gone in a heartbeat if they started charging members for the content that they contribute. The place would be an overnight ghost town.

David


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> So let me understand this... Members create an ENORMOUS AMOUNT of the content over there which has made the place valuable enough to have sponsors in the first place. And now somebody is gonna charge members a membership fee to keep creating the content that the owners are making money on? I don't think so.
> 
> I've put up with disrespectful and heavy-handed moderation over there for years, but I (along with a bunch of other folks I'm sure) would be gone in a heartbeat if they started charging members for the content that they contribute. The place would be an overnight ghost town.
> 
> David


OGR used to charge something like $25 a year for a premium membership which came with a few worthwhile benefits like being able to access their magazine archives, etc, although mostly it was just the good feeling that you were helping sustain something that was important to you. 

I didn't mind paying the money - well worth it considering what I spent on trains themselves if a forum would help improve my knowledge at all. But it was yet another reason I thought the heavy handed moderation and censorship of (what was likely to be the most) useful negative feedback were unacceptable. 

I have sent an e-mailto OGR asking if a buyer has come forward and if not who I would talk to. I might not get any reply at all. I'm not just trolling for info but have thought of buying something like this - I think with imagination OGR's assets and income could do well (or at least well enough) and that they really haven't been very innovative. Under the right conditions it could be fun, and I have a lot of ideas I am pretty certain would make money and increase value - yadda yadda yadda. 

If they do respond I probably will not be able to share anything here. I've negotiated to buy and sell, several businesses in the past and one of the first things both sides do is sign a reciprocal non-disclosure agreement. That said, and prior to that if it occurs, I will observe that "I'm retiring" is often given as the reason for selling a personally-owned business that is doing poorly. I recently broke off talks with another company (in a slightly different line of business) where the story was the same: "I'm retiring after many years of building this fine profitable company into something really special. Finaces were great (and looked good at first glance), but a closer look showed the company had been put on heavy steriods to boost the appearance of success and dug itself an over-levered hole. I ended up passing. Still looking for something stable and fun.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2016)

*"I have sent an e-mailto OGR asking if a buyer has come forward and if not who I would talk to. I might not get any reply at all. I'm not just trolling for info but have thought of buying something like this - I think with imagination OGR's assets and income could do well (or at least well enough) and that they really haven't been very innovative. Under the right conditions it could be fun, and I have a lot of ideas I am pretty certain would make money and increase value - yadda yadda yadda." *

Common sense would suggest that a seller would want to entertain any and all sources for a potential sales contract. Having said that, there is no hard and fast rule that common sense must prevail in this case. Sellers have an obligation to release all significant information about the business they are offering for sale. Information such as this to certain buyers, hmmmmmmm.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> So let me understand this... Members create an ENORMOUS AMOUNT of the content over there which has made the place valuable enough to have sponsors in the first place. And now somebody is gonna charge members a membership fee to keep creating the content that the owners are making money on? I don't think so.
> 
> I've put up with disrespectful and heavy-handed moderation over there for years, but I (along with a bunch of other folks I'm sure) would be gone in a heartbeat if they started charging members for the content that they contribute. The place would be an overnight ghost town.
> 
> David


I would guess that most of the sponsers over there are there for only one reason. To push their product to a group of potential grade A buyers.

Didn't OGR management a few years ago run up the flagpole a survey if forum members would be acceptable to a fee to keep the forum. If I remember correctly there was a lot of negative comments.

Bill


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *"I have sent an e-mailto OGR asking if a buyer has come forward and if not who I would talk to. I might not get any reply at all. I'm not just trolling for info but have thought of buying something like this - I think with imagination OGR's assets and income could do well (or at least well enough) and that they really haven't been very innovative. Under the right conditions it could be fun, and I have a lot of ideas I am pretty certain would make money and increase value - yadda yadda yadda." *
> 
> Common sense would suggest that a seller would want to entertain any and all sources for a potential sales contract. Having said that, there is no hard and fast rule that common sense must prevail in this case. Sellers have an obligation to release all significant information about the business they are offering for sale. Information such as this to certain buyers, hmmmmmmm.


I hope whomever ends up buying OGR deletes any forum post Rich Melvin or Alan Arnold submits.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

chipset35 said:


> I hope whomever ends up buying OGR deletes any forum post Rich Melvin or Alan Arnold submits.


Well, normally a new owner wants the old management to butt out entirely, so whoever owns it down the road would probably want them to not participate at all, although they might want Alan Miller for five or six issues at least as a transition.


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Didn't OGR management a few years ago run up the flagpole a survey if forum members would be acceptable to a fee to keep the forum. If I remember correctly there was a lot of negative comments.
> 
> Bill


Bill....you are correct, but I believe that was well over 10-12 years ago.....That's how the original 4 sponsors started, to keep the Forum free.

Peter


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

OGR Magazine "Lee Willis" Publisher. That has a nice ring to it. I only hope that if he is successful he doesn't change it to an all conventional running magazine.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Spence said:


> I only hope that if he is successful he doesn't change it to an all conventional running magazine.


Don't do that, I spit my drink onto the screen!  That was FUNNY! :laugh:


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Spence said:


> OGR Magazine "Lee Willis" Publisher. That has a nice ring to it. I only hope that if he is successful he doesn't change it to an all conventional running magazine.


I'm sure with someone like Lee at the helm, it will be a successful endeavor for all. Also Model Railroading will thrive and grow with proper management.
In fact, I increased my purchases and enthusiasm since coming here, and my layout has grown.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2016)

I agree that Lee would be a perfect candidate to take over that organization, lock, stock, and barrel. He is smart, savvy, has a keen interest in our hobby, innovative, and a noted author. All attributes necessary to run a successful business. 

Not to throw water on this campfire, there are a lot of buts before anything like this would happen.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm just kicking the tires now. No salesman has even come up to talk to me yet. 

Would not surprise me if OGR is already sold to someone they've known a long time.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Just went to the link. The post was removed.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

walter said:


> I'm sure with someone like Lee at the helm, it will be a successful endeavor for all. Also Model Railroading will thrive and grow with proper management.
> In fact, I increased my purchases and enthusiasm since coming here, and my layout has grown.


I too have increased my purchases since coming here & that is due to Lee & Menards.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Spence said:


> I too have increased my purchases since coming here & that is due to Lee & Menards.


YUP! Guilty as charged. Both make "O" scale exciting, affordable, and bring back the memories of why it's fun to run train.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I received this one sentence reply to my inquiry from Alan Arnold. It was courteous of him to get back to me. I quote:

"I can not divulge details about the potential buyer.....sorry."

So that is that. Time wll, as usual, reveal the details.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2016)

I suspect that the sun will come up tomorrow and the MTF will operate in it's usual fine fashion that has made us all very comfortable. So what happens over there in the other yard matters little in the grand scheme of things. 

This news of their "for sale" status has *only* added a little spice to talk about and some speculation about their future.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Well that's to bad. It certainly would have been interesting with Lee behind the wheel. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2016)

Some of us who are older than dirt will remember a TV program called the "Hit Parade". My guess for what it is worth is Lee was left off this list.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Lee, you mean to tell us you didn't make "the short list"? 

All kidding aside, I gotta agree with Brian in that this is all moot in the big picture. Several years ago when my wife and I would visit York and Gettysburg for a good 4-5 days, we'd stay at a nice B&B in Hanover (located between the two towns). At breakfast I'd talk about the OGR Forum since there were a few other train folks staying at the same Inn. Funny thing is NONE of them even heard of OGR or its online forum. So there is indeed an enormous chunk of this hobby -- not to even mention the non-O-Gauge 3rail segment of model railroading in general -- that won't skip a beat if ownership of OGR changes hands.

Onward.... as this too shall pass. 

David


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suspect a vast majority of model train people haven't really sought out any of the on-line forums.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Speculation is always fun.
> 
> What if OGR does find a buyer and the new owner decides to keep the forum but there will be an annual subscription charge. Will any OGR forumites bail out instead of paying.
> 
> Bill


Y E S.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

David,

You bring up a good point. 

I have been to a couple TCA Conventions, and during the events, I have struck up conversations with many strangers from all over the country. I would ask most of them if they read the Train Forum 95% of the time I got "what Train Forum?". Also it was interesting that I ran across very few if any of the the big Train Forum posters on those trips. It was like there are two separate worlds of the hobby, with very little cross pollination.

It seems like the Forum posters think they are the center of the O gauge world...they are not.




Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Lee, you mean to tell us you didn't make "the short list"?
> 
> All kidding aside, I gotta agree with Brian in that this is all moot in the big picture. Several years ago when my wife and I would visit York and Gettysburg for a good 4-5 days, we'd stay at a nice B&B in Hanover (located between the two towns). At breakfast I'd talk about the OGR Forum since there were a few other train folks staying at the same Inn. Funny thing is NONE of them even heard of OGR or its online forum. So there is indeed an enormous chunk of this hobby -- not to even mention the non-O-Gauge 3rail segment of model railroading in general -- that won't skip a beat if ownership of OGR changes hands.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I suspect a vast majority of model train people haven't really sought out any of the on-line forums.


I have been thinking the same thing. This past York I sat at lunch and snack tables with a dozen different people. None were on any Forum at all nor were they aware of any Forum. I got the sense that local model railroad clubs was there sole source of information. I tried promoting MTF but got cold responses like I was selling Florida Snow Skiing Lodges. People don't know the Gold Mine of information that fills the pages of these Forums.

Emile


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Yes, the majority of model Railroaders have no interest in online anything. They just enjoy the trains and don't care about learning anything about them or the prototype. We here are a drop in the bucket of the model train community.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I suspect that the sun will come up tomorrow and the MTF will operate in it's usual fine fashion that has made us all very comfortable. So what happens over there in the other yard matters little in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> This news of their "for sale" status has *only* added a little spice to talk about and some speculation about their future.


Couldn't agree more! I'm happy here. Whatever happens at OGR is of little concern to me. 

To the Potential Buyer, let me just say: CAVEAT EMPTOR my friend! CAVEAT EMPTOR!


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

I have the same impression.
In central Virginia, we have a club with a 30 year history, the Virginia Train Collectors. I was at one of their meets and they were talking about low attendance. I said why don't you advertise this event on one of the online forums. They looked at me like I was nuts. 
Bottom line: the great majority of train people have no idea what we are or what we do here.

There is hope in this story. The President-elect of the Virginia Train Collectors is a modular group member. I look forward to him bringing the club into the digital age. It will be a challenge. For instance, when Mike Wolf came down to the September meeting of the Virginia Train Collectors and demonstrated the new app, one of the members raised their hand and asked (no joke) "why do I have to pay for all these are electronics that I never use?".

Peter


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

This forum provides all the "forum" I need, so whatever happens to OGR is of no consequence to my enjoyment of my model railing hobby.From a hobby standpoint I can't see ever needing another forum. 

I was mostly interested in possibly buying OGR because of the the Ameritown building business and the on-line forum that went with it, not the magazine. I think both have potential, particularly the model building business, that is not being exploited, or is being wrongly exploited. The magazine would be just a drag on finances and attention, frankly, exceot for the fact that it gives OGR, the corporation, credibility and contacts for the other businesses.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2016)

Isn't it interesting that we get to talk about this subject in a civil and sometimes humorous way, but in good taste, while others on another Forum are not permitted to mention a word or get deleted for their efforts.

*It's good to be an MTF fan*.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *It's good to be an MTF fan*.


:thumbsup:


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