# CNR 4-6-4T Project



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I will try to replicate this:







Using:







It looks as though a cut will have to be made (maybe!) behind the stack and add in a half inch or so to move the steam chests ahead. If that is the case then the chassis will also have to be adjusted and all the stuff attached to it so that it can all bolt together again with everything lined up. Then we will be able to see where we are at as far as the new truck and linkage installation.








New bolsters will have to be added to the drive wheels. I can already imagine that tedious operation. Once this area is cleaned up (doesn't take long if you say it fast) and it runs okay then we can address the rear end which except for the rear truck is just cosmetics.
So that is the plan as they say.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

This is a project after my own heart. I love stuff like this! Please post lots of progress pictures. Great stuff, and you should have a really good little loco when done, a great one.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Well after staring at this thing for an hour and making comparisons it looks like moving the chassis backwards under the body and remounting will solve most of the issues. The big job will be lowering the walk ways about 1/4 inch but I have not figured out an easy way to do that yet (knowing full well that there isn't one). It may have to be one of those compromises if I can convince myself to live with it.
Just like I convinced myself that I didn't need to rebuild the ends of this baggage car!
















Still in the process of repainting and decaling this car but this week should see it finished.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Quit e nice how you rebuilt that What material (styrene/) did you use?


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Hi Lee. Yes it is mostly Evergreen with a length of chain and brass ladders made to resemble (to a point) the cast-on ones on the car sides. There are still a couple of grab irons to install after painting.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Will that box car you are working on become the water/fuel section
that is attached to the rear of the cab as in the pic?

Don


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

No Don, that example is just to demonstrate my analism! The box car is a through baggage car to run at the head end of my CNR passenger train.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The first cut! The rear bracket was cut off so that the chassis could be moved back and an approximate location mapped out. The exact location will be dictated by clearance for the front four wheel truck. The domes are popped off and the body stripped before hacking off the walk ways and grinding the boiler shell to shape but all the fiddling up front can be done first.
The plan is to get the smoker adjusted forward and all the drive rods etc. in place and track tested before the major butchering takes place.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

You're committed now:smilie_daumenpos:

Do you have a prototype pic with the boiler and cylinder jackets installed?


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Two or three units are well represented on the interweb.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Dano is right, there are quite a few images and some nice detailed articles about this locomotive or its sibling 4-6-4T, Number 47. I found them a few months ago when nosing around looking for info on North American tank engines. If you use Google Images to serach for "4-6-4 locomotive" you get gobs of pictures like these. 

This is a photo on #47.









and photo and specifications (difficult but not impossible to read) for a very slightly different class.








There is also a very good history of number 47 and the 4-6-4Ts at Canadian Railways at:

http://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/steamtown/shs3a.htm


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The new mounting plate that fits inside the steam chests. It will be bolted in front of the cast one.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice Dano, as always. Very Ambitious, too much for me to ever try. But I can live vicariously through you and your build!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. You do jump in with both feet!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It will be interesting to see how this turns out. You do jump in with both feet!


As long as you land of both feet, you are okay. This project looks to have real potential: the end loco is handsome and rather unique (there were not that many Hudson tank engines), it does not look that difficult, but it presents some interesting work. finally, it is the type of project that should be linear and closed - not something that draws out forever.

BTW - In every tank engine project I bashed, I kept in mind one rule the designers had foremost in front of them: the view to the rear - there had to be enough view to the rear to operate the thing if needed while backing up, with a view - made twisting your head and all, just the the rear and on back over or around the "tank" and coal load, particulalry if the loco was going to be used for swtiching or yard duties at all.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I must admit, one of my favorite locomotives is my K-Line tank engine, it's a great piece. K-Line put a lot of detail into these, they were the "Vision Line" of the K-Line lineup. 

Dano, this will be a neat engine when finished, as they're really a unique configuration. I know there's the Dockside engines, but for some reason I always liked the tank engines.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I have the Boston and Albany version of that K-Line tank engine. Mine has some issues and does not run that well anymore - I think it is just old and worn out, frankly, but it is also what? ten plus years old and its electronics a bit dated compared to present. Still, it is incredibly handsome and I really would like to convert it to Legacy or an EER Cruise and sound, etc. 

I keep thinkiing someone (Lionel? Bachmann?) must own the tooling for this loco. I'd actually love to have a vision model of it - almost as much as an LC+ version. That would be perfect!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mine got the ERR cruise to replace the K-Line cruise, but it runs great. I'm thinking of a Super-Chuffer to improve the smoke, but that's about it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I must admit, one of my favorite locomotives is my K-Line tank engine, it's a great piece. K-Line put a lot of detail into these, they were the "Vision Line" of the K-Line lineup.
> 
> Dano, this will be a neat engine when finished, as they're really a unique configuration. I know there's the Dockside engines, but for some reason I always liked the tank engines.
> 
> View attachment 57570



CNJ too. :smilie_daumenpos:

Is that a yellow wire I see there John?
Sticks out like a sore thumb.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> CNJ too. :smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> Is that a yellow wire I see there John?
> Sticks out like a sore thumb.


Probably, it'll get fixed the next time I have to open it up.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Probably, it'll get fixed the next time I have to open it up.


In similar situations, I've been known to reach in with a fine-tipped paint brush and flat black enamel and paint the visible yellow/red/green/blue/whatever wire black. Quick to do, works well, and no dis-assembly required.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I do that with stuff that runs under, like the white stripe on the ribbon cable to the chuff sensor.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

From habit I always take a picture of any circuitry before I remove it although without a tender it will most likely be dispensed with.







The new mountings are completed and installed. At this point there is nothing that can't be reversed. Now I have to decide to live with the walk-ways or bring out the heavy power tools.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I think taking photos is good insurance against not remembering a detail or two later on in a project. I do it a lot, too. 

About room in the cab and all. First, it is a challenge when converting a model to a tank engine because you usually have to squeeze a whole tender's worth of stuff - whatever was in there, into the smaller tank-engine's space. The Lionchief Plus Hudson I showed earlier in this thread is an example: the speaker from the tender barely fit. 
However, if need be (I did not have to, you may need to) you can open up the wall between the coal/water area and the cab (e.g, the back wall of the cab, allowing a board to extend the length of the "coal load areas" and into the cab up to the firewall. You also might think about EER commander and such. Some of their boards are small. While you could just do away with the board and run it with only a rectifier it in, it is nicer to have an e-unit, and if you can get it in, a sound board, etc., and speaker.

Another issue with tanks made from non-tanks is balance: by which I mean sufficient distribution of weight so there is enough on each end of the loco. The Lionchief Plus tank I made, at first, would not run well through curves and particularly switches: its front, pilot truck would de-rail. I had not modified or played with that pilot truck at all, and it puzzled me that it would do it after modification, until I figured out that the weight of the "tank" and the speaker and all inside it, all hanging off what had been the back of the loco, were taking nearly all the weight off the front of the loco: so that the pilot truck did not have enough downforce on it to track well. In fact the center of gravity of the loco, as converted, was directly above the rearmost driver. I made efforts to take a bit of weight out of the loco's coal load area, and added what weight I could (lead weights) inside the very front of the loco shell and underneath it up front, and the problem went away. This was the sole running problem I had and also the only unanticipated problem I had. I mention this in particular because it looks like the casting you have has a particularly thick cab floor - many of models of this size and type did because it made them more stable when pulling heavy metal tenders/long trains. It also means the model, with a coal load added to the loco, might be, as mine was originally, too tail-heavy.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

there's a nice looking nyc k-line tank on the bay now. but looks to be 2 rail model if anyones interested. $150. +

K-Line 4-6-6T Diecast New York Central O Scale 1:48 Locomotive #1295 KS3470-1295
( 381294398819 )


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice locomotive, but as you say, missing some key elements for 3-rail operation.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Actuating arm added to the drive wheels.
A whole lot of grinding and filing and such like.
New walkways.
New front coupler, totally useless on 31 inch curves, I may re-do this.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

One of the test runs, so far so good.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Very cool! I project after my own heart. I love it. 

And I have no doubt, you are having a lot of fun!


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Yeah, Lee, fun! More pics to come Tuesday. The next big thing beyond cosmetics (the cab is nearly finished) is to replace the smoke unit under the stack. It is now DC so all the other electronics are gone. I may bolt the unit to the body instead of the frame. That may make the repositioning easier.


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

Nice. I wish I had that kind of talent. Maybe practice will make me better?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Dano, as usual great workmanship. The details that you put into the stuff you do is amazing. As always, I'm in awe.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Thank you for the comments. I just try for something representative that will run on 0-31 and will fit in with my post-war stuff.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

Dano said:


> I just try for something representative that will run on 0-31 and will fit in with my post-war stuff.


ME THINKS YOU DOWNPLAY YOUR TALENT AND INGENUITY!:smokin:

YOUR PROJECTS ARE ALWAYS MOST INTERESTING.:smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Progress to date. I may do some more jiggery pokery to the pilot truck mounting to prevent it flopping around when being moved about.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

she's really taking shape.:thumbsup:
would it help to have front coupler on flat bar back to leading truck. rig some kind of centering spring?

watch that *jiggery/pokery* I don't know if thats allowed here.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Did you grind down the front pilot truck or is that from running it?
If you ground it down what is the purpose? (how does it help?)

As always, looking good.:smilie_daumenpos:
I just noticed that I have not said that in this build thread yet. :dunno:
But I have been watching.:thumbsup:


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Looking really good!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Its coming along handsomely.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice, you're moving right along on this one.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Regarding the pilot truck, I was having trouble with a test run and it appeared that the truck was shorting on the centre rail so I arched it and filed away some material to provide some extra clearance. It actually turned out that it was the rear truck was binding causing the problem, needed an extra 1/8 inch of free travel. Just one of those things that crop up on test and need to be solved.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

It's looking great so far.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm repainting a dozen Menards boxcars. I really like the cars, but I bought a dozen of the weathered UP cars, and the weathering is way too heavy-handed and consistent: the weathering consists only of grim along the seams and it is much to uniform: they look like zebras. I tried painting the roofs flat black, to break up the "zebra stripes" and weathering a few unevenly, but it did not help.

I will post more about this project when I get farther along. 

The cars are nice but look like zebras.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dano said:


> Regarding the pilot truck, I was having trouble with a test run and it appeared that the truck was shorting on the centre rail so I arched it and filed away some material to provide some extra clearance. It actually turned out that it was the rear truck was binding causing the problem, needed an extra 1/8 inch of free travel. Just one of those things that crop up on test and need to be solved.


OK, it will be all the better now.
I was just wondering if you did it (that is what I thought) or if from running it did it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lee Willis said:


> I'm repainting a dozen Menards boxcars. I really like the cars, but I bought a dozen of the weathered UP cars, and the weathering is way too heavy-handed and consistent: the weathering consists only of grim along the seams and it is much to uniform: they look like zebras. I tried painting the roofs flat black, to break up the "zebra stripes" and weathering a few unevenly, but it did not help.
> 
> I will post more about this project when I get farther along.
> 
> ...


This in the right thread Lee?


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Looks like a good project Lee. Keep us informed.

BTW: Nothing personal, I don't like the paint on those cars either. :smilie_daumenneg:
I'm sure they will look better when you are finished with them.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Finally starting to look like something!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2015)

Dano, sure looks very promising to me. Great job!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Something looks wrong with the center wheel?:goofball:
I know, I know. 

Looking better all the time.:smilie_daumenpos:

Did you make the roof hatches so they open?


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

big ed said:


> Did you make the roof hatches so they open?



NO!


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I laid on some detail while I figure out how I am going to mount the rear pilot.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

Dano,
Excellent work you have done. This is a great thread.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

How are you molding the plastic ? 3d printer? It looks amazing nice work


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

L0stS0ul said:


> How are you molding the plastic ? 3d printer? It looks amazing nice work


I think he cuts all of his material, metal, brass, plastic's, styrene.:thumbsup:

Have you seen his other fabrications?
Here is one,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=24066

Loving the details Dano. :smilie_daumenpos:
Going to be all black, or 2 colors like in the picture?
Or is that rust I am seeing in the picture?

No opening roof vent hatches? 
That would have been a nice extra detail if you could figure out how to do it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ed, you're really hard-over on those opening vents! What's your fixation with those?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Ed, you're really hard-over on those opening vents! What's your fixation with those?


It gets real hot in the locomotives, I am just thinking about the engineers welfare.

You know now that I thought about it, (I think too much?), they wouldn't be too hard to fabricate.
At first I was thinking that they would have to pop up somehow on a hinge, but now I realize that the real hatches slid open.
That wouldn't be too hard to do?

I know how Dano likes to add detail, I am just giving him a detail suggestions.

You forgot to tell him it is looking good.:smokin:


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Ed, you're killing me! The vents hinge but are shut. These locos worked in Montreal; it is 30 below, enough hot air is venting through the open windows.
I don't have a 3D printer but I am going to get one of those vinyl cutters, apparently they will cut card and thin plastic as well. Will come in handy for cutting out windows, frames etc. It is very time consuming doing that by hand and getting two or more exactly the same.
As far as the construction goes I will use any method or material that I think will get the result that I am after. I started modifying 1/18 die-cast vehicles before I tried my hand at doing locos.
If this link works it will give an idea.http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/35611-transam-sport-truck/


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

VERY cool. I love it. It is going to look fantastic, I know it.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Lee, you are such an optimist!


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

this is sick!!!
beautiful made and the idea is great!!
For curtains people use aluminum foil, the thinner one give to you the chance to fold it easy keeping a very realistic amount of wrinkles.

Andre.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dano said:


> Ed, you're killing me! The vents hinge but are shut. These locos worked in Montreal; it is 30 below, enough hot air is venting through the open windows.


But in the summer it is hot! 
They say if you factor in the humidity it is over a 100 in the summer sometimes. 

OK, I will stop killing you.:smokin:
No more opening hatches. It was a bad ideal. :smilie_daumenneg:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

AG216 said:


> For curtains people use aluminum foil, the thinner one give to you the chance to fold it easy keeping a very realistic amount of wrinkles.


Cool idea, never thought of that, but they will hold their shape, at least until you stick your finger into them.


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Cool idea, never thought of that, but they will hold their shape, at least until you stick your finger into them.


well after paint and dull cote the foil get more resistant, but it is a model so Don't touch!!
Now, 99.9% of the time fragile thing turn invisible when your hand is around.
AG.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's that invisible thing that always gets me.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

You can use ordinary paper or tissue for many representations and when in place (or before) simply soak it with liquid CA and it will be hard as rock, ready for painting. When I use wood for something I do the same and then sand it smooth and when painted it looks like metal or plastic.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The start of the rear pilot. The plan is to mount it like the Lionel F units (front) so the coupler can get the necessary travel on O-31 curves.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

So, the pilot is mounted to its truck unit now to see if the whole thing melds properly with the loco.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

All fitted up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That looks really good Dano, nice job. 

How do you do the rivets?


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That looks really good Dano, nice job.
> 
> How do you do the rivets?


I make tools. With this tool I can make two lines of 'rivets' at one time. The tool is pressed into thin plastic or paper on a surface with some give to it and it embosses the rivet detail, double punching the last hole lines everything up each time. Some CA applied to the back side will strengthen them so they will withstand handling (especially if using paper). The sheet is simply glued on rivet side out.


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## Ricky Tanner (Sep 19, 2015)

I'm really enjoying this Dano. You are giving me lots of great ideas. I cannot wait to start the conversioon of two early Lionel NYC 4-8-2's into MOPAC 5300 class 4-8-2 mountains. I've also got a couple of Williams brass USRA 4-6-2's that I plan to modify into one of MOPAC's heavily modified 4-6-2 pacifics.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks Rick. Lee Willis also does a lot of loco mods and it is worth the time to check out his stuff.


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## Ricky Tanner (Sep 19, 2015)

Dano said:


> Thanks Rick. Lee Willis also does a lot of loco mods and it is worth the time to check out his stuff.


Oh yes! I'm a big fan of Lee's. I followed him on the other forum for years. He,P.T.C. and Gunrunner John were how I found out about this forum.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

These are the turnings that will be morphed into a compressor unit.


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## CDNJ (Jun 20, 2015)

Your project is amazing.
Great work.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Cool, do you have a lathe you're doing them on?


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

After being conjoined and primed a bit. Can't say that I am very happy so far. After looking at some close up pics of the real thing I may scratch this and try a different method of construction.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

So after hitting the drawing board and some more time on the lathe and drill press I produced something approaching more what I originally had in mind. I will get them joined together and detailed tomorrow, maybe, a plan anyways!


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Do to actually having to do some work in the store today I didn't get much done.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The compressors on their mounting. Now to tackle the mess of whatever that other contraption is behind them.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Now that things have slowed down a little I have a bit of free time in which to continue detailing this beast.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Incredible work. Congrats!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It is looking good. I've done more than a little bit of bashing/relocating equipment like that so I know how intricate and difficult it can be. Nicely done. I had never thought of using insulated wire as piping like that: have to try that.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

details details details

great job Dano:smilie_daumenpos:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Is that solid copper wire you used? That is an interesting application, when it's painted it'll look great, and I'll bet it's easy to bend it into the desired shape. :thumbsup:


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks for the comps. The white parts are plastic. The aluminum looking stuff is aluminum tubing or solder. The wire is insulated stranded wire I think 20 ga. and it is easy to tack down and trail to where you want it. The larger pipe from the feed water heater is wrapped in masking tape. There is also the odd piece of brass rod. The real thing almost looks like it was put together from whatever was lying around the shop so I think that my methodology of construction is working!
It was only yesterday while looking at some pics of the piping that runs to the front end over the steam chest that I realized that I could/should have taken away about 3/8 inch from under the boiler front. Oh well, it is always a compromise with the original manufactured model and your own mods to make a resemblance of the original.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Resplendent in a fresh coat of black, most of the piping finished.















Next up, detailing around the pilot and boiler front.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Boy, paint really makes a difference, can't wait to see it all together.


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## Ricky Tanner (Sep 19, 2015)

Looks great!


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Got some more details on this afternoon after hockey. Taking it home tonight to try and get the smoker lined up with the stack and mounted in place.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Well, there were times when I didn't think this would ever be finished but I am sticking a fork in this and calling it done! Here are some still shots and I will get up a video once I break out some coaches for it to pull.
It is a composite of the class and some details were left out and compromises made but I am happy with the end result. My engineer has disappeared but he will probably show up while I clean up my bench!


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Great Job! :appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl:


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

Amazing job! :smilie_daumenpos: You certainly have a one of a kind there. Can't wait to see it pulling some cars


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's a great job, the paint really brought it together!


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Right John, Nothing hides like thick coats of black paint!


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

*give yourself a pat on the back!*

Another great job Dano. all the piping and machine work really looks good on there. :smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:

I like seeing the little ones looking in your window.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Thank you Randy. The train in the window has always been a big hit with the youngsters (and some oldsters too).


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