# Got my 303 in the mail



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

As title says I received my 303 Saturday. Happy with it. It does
have a first for me. Plastic wheels. None of my other steamers
has plastic wheels. It does have a rubber pulmor tire on front wheels. Only paid 15.00 plus shipping so it did not take much
to be happy with it. Cowcatcher was loose but not broken, just
came unglued, no biggie. Both front steps are present. The cab
numbers and tender graphics are as good as can be. Appears
very little run time. Is 100% complete. There is not a lock out lever on base of tender but I can see there is a reverse unit in tender so maybe a different unit than I am used to. Seller stated it does not run. I looked for a loose wire but saw nothing. I will try to get a pic soon. Neat little locomotive. Knuckle coupler. Seems to be a diecast shell but I thought it would be plastic. Has smoke and choo choo unit in it. Need to get this puppy running. I have not tried it. I think these are from 1953 but no 5 wire and no white smoke stack. The only thing maybe missing are the 2 rear light stands. There are holes for them. No biggie I have already bought a few (repos) of the
stands. And I have red jewels.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

MoPac, not sure what you have there. There is no documentation of a 303 with a diecast boiler. All 303's had a 5 wire connection to the tender. No 303's had plastic drivers because Gilbert first made plastic drivers in 1958 for the 21105 Reading Atlantic. These came in two configurations, all plastic black drivers with white painted tires or black plastic wheels with aluminum tires. None of the Reading plastic tenders had the light stands from the factory. If the tender has a reverse unit in it there should be a lockout lever because all tender mounted units were 4 position reverse unit designs.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Sounds like you have a Frankenstein engine there buddy.. All my 303's are plastic boiler and tender, 5-wire, with pul-mor. I don't know what you have there.If you want a 303, let me see what I can do, like I said I have a few, IF I can find them,lol.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

It will be interesting to see a few pictures of your 303. I have 2 and they are both the same, plastic boilers and 5 wire direct with pullmor and metal drivers and 4 position reverse unit in the tender.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

It does sound like mine is a Frankenstein. It will be fine. It says 303 on the cab and
I just wanted a different cab number. It might have been renumbered. Numbers look new.
The cowcatcher is plastic but glued to boiler. I will try to get pics tomorrow. Any idea of
an Atlantic with diecast boiler and plastic cowcatcher. It fits in place perfect. Its a diecast
boiler for sure. I actually like the new loco. Has a nice plastic shell on tender.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Chassis is like nothing I have seen. Driver axles do not go through chassis. There are grooves on bottom of chassis for axles to ride in. And then a half inch plate screws on to hold the axles. Motor looks like an AF motor. I can see the choo choo. I have heard of
plastic drivers but never seen them. Has a brass smoke tube. Its a strange duck for sure. A diecast boiler and a plastic cowcatcher is a new one for me.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

After some research this morning I think my new little engine started life as a
5 digit engine. A 21105 to be more precise. They had plastic wheels 1958-1960.
Some time in its life it got a new body (shell). Probably a 302 diecast shell. Not
a 4 piece. I guess a 2 piece. 1 piece diecast shell with a plastic cowcatcher. It has
a late 50s to 1960 drawbar. The shell was renumbered to 303. I will try to get pics
some time today. Got a little running around to do first.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

If tender is correct for chassis it has a 2 position reverse unit. Maybe that's why no lock out lever. I have no idea how the reverse unit works but I am about to find out. I think
it should have 2 wires from tender. This has 4 wires to the plugs. Might be why it does not run. Need to remove tender shell and see what is in there.

I have 2 steamers that need to be put back together after repairs first, then I can start on this Frankenstein. I still like it.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I jumped the 2 center holes and power to outside holes. Motor runs fine. So maybe
some problem in tender. Great smoker also. Choo choo is fine. This puppy will run
again. Still intending it to pull my Frontier cars.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok, here are some pics. Pics would have been better if my flash
was on. The forum or my computer will only let me insert 2 pics
per post. First 2 pics are just the 2 sides.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Next 2 pics are with cowcatcher and without.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I agree a 21105 is a possibility. But there is still an issue to be resolved. All the 5 digit engines like the 21105 and 21107 had two position reverse units mounted in the cab behind the motor. These had a lockout lever on them as well. There were only two wires from the engine to the tender. There is no such thing as a two position tender mounted reverse unit.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The 303 on the cab is not factory nor is the wiring from the tender to the engine.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Next 2 are of bottom of engine. Notice there is not a grease pan
like we are used to. You can see how the axles are mounted. Not
through chassis.

















Looks like it would be easy to install metal wheels. The axles just lift out.


.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Tom, I am sure you are correct. It is a Frankenstein. I like the diecast shell.
I still need to pull shell off of tender. As I said, I got motor running so all
will be fine. Its ok with me that it s not original. It was only 15 bucks.

5 digit engines are a different animal.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Now that I see the pictures the two piece chassis with all black plastic drive wheels was only used with the 21107. Here is my guess. The two position reverse unit in the cab failed, they are almost impossible to repair. So the owner decided to put an older style reverse unit in the tender to get it running again. Not sure about why the boiler shell was swapped, maybe the original was broken if the engine fell from a layout onto the floor. That scenario could also have resulted in breaking the original reverse unit.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Your thought on the shell could very well be correct. I saw pics of the all black plastic wheels. These do have whitewalls. When I pull the tender shell it should tell me a lot.
I can tell there is a reverse unit in tender but no idea what kind. Its a doozy for sure.
Glad I got it.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Right, it does have whitewalls! Back to the 21105 as the likely origin.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

If I have to I will connect the 2 center plug wires together in the tender and wires
from the 2 tender trucks to outside holes. It just may not have reverse. I already had
it running like that so I know that will work. That thing could have an electronic reverse, I do not know. I don't reverse my trains very often. Just forward would be fine. I am not
picky.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I have only 1 5 digit animal, a 21105. It has the 2 position e-unit in the cab.. Did I mention it is the most finicky loco on the planet. I don't like it nor do I run it. I have all the cars that go with it as well.It runs "good", as long as the track is as clean as Superman. The minute it hits ANY spot on the tracks it doesn't like, bang, it goes in reverse!! EEEEUUUUUWWW!!!!


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

MoPac, That is a very nice 303 (or whatever) for the price. I don't have one.
What I do like is following this thread for the history and determination of what it actually is. You detectives here put 'Columbo' to shame. My $ .02.
Homer T.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It is as Flyernut says. The only way to run a stock 21105 is to lock the cab mounted two position reverse unit in forward. These engines use a chassis ground through the electrically "hot" drawbar to connect one side of the bulb and smoke unit back to the tender pickup. This ground path connection serves the function the "5th wire" did when there were 4 position reverse units in tenders. The 21105 is connected like a 5 wire engine but it only has two wires to the tender. What that means is the bulb and smoke unit are not wired in series with the field like the old 4 wire units were.
The 5 digit, 2 position reverse unit engines were cheaper to make, no fun to run.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

That's a lot of work to get a running 4-4-2. I wonder what the 2 phillips screws do underneath. There is only one in the center of my 21105 that holds the axles in the split chassis. I don't see why there is a second one in the plate. The front one might be for the smoke assembly. Is the motor the newer type with the barrel armature on the end or did the motor get changed to the earlier type? I have found that the 2 position reverse works best as flyernut said when the track is squeaky clean along with the reverse unit itself. It will be interesting what you find in the tender. To clarify, the Franklin 21088 and Washington 21089 both have 2 position reverse units in the tender but I believe they are the only two engines so equipped. The reverse bar sticks down thru the tender floor.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks Cramden, I always forget about those two engines because I do not own any. They have 4 wires plus the "hot" drawbar from the tender. The 2 position reverse unit mounting is interesting in how Gilbert got the locking slide lever below the floor.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

cramden, I think the front screw goes into smoke unit. I need to get in tender and see whats there. If it is a 2 position I will just wire it to always go forward. Armature is not
barrel type. Looks like an armature from early 50s. Motor seems to run good.
I very seldom use reverse. With my ZW transformer I don't overshoot the station and have to back up.
I can bring them in slowly.


Thanks AmFlyerFan.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks Cramden, I always forget about those two engines because I do not own any. They have 4 wires plus the "hot" drawbar from the tender. The 2 position reverse unit mounting is interesting in how Gilbert got the locking slide lever below the floor.


I forgot too and just had my Franklin out for the first time for a picture and a test run. I had to go and look at it to verify what I was posting. As far as the reverse, it looks like an afterthought, just cut a big hole in the tender floor and let it hang out.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Mopac, interesting about the earlier motor, actually better for you than dealing with the newer type. I lock some of mine also so I don't have to worry when I let them just run. The downside is I forget the next time when I run them and wonder why they won't reverse.:hah:


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

It seems like the more we think we know the more we don't. It also seems like Gilbert maybe assembled some things just because they could and put them out. Then there is always the individual who just changes things because he can. I never stop learning from this forum. That 303 you have there mopac is just such of an example. 

Kenny


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is some more on my little Frankenstein locomotive. First, let me say, I am still
very fond of it and glad I bought it.

It will not run hooked up the way I received it. Engine or tender not wired correctly.
The live drawbar is part of the problem. I am going to have to come up with a way
to isolate it from engine. The live drawbar is not needed to complete the smoke unit
circuit. It just shorts the engine. Also boiler wires begin to smoke when all is hooked 
up. So a short.

Here is what I have done. I have removed the reverse unit from tender. It does not
have or ever did have a lockout lever. Not sure what it is from. It appears to be a 4
position unit. I have added pics of it. I have bypassed it and removed it from tender.
It will go into my parts department for possible later use. Engine runs great without
the live drawbar hooked up. Smoke and light works great. I got lucky with connecting 
wires and engine runs in forward. So now I have to isolate the live drawbar. So, I will
not have reverse. Fine with me.

The engine had one plastic washer on drawbar. I think I need 2 and maybe a plastic
screw to isolate the drawbar.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)




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## Sagas (Dec 13, 2013)

From your pictures it appears you have an early E-unit from a RIB engine. It would mount on the chassis and what appears to be a lever would protrude from the top of the boiler like an early 300, 310, 312, 322. Barry


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

So how will you run it with out the reverse unit .


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

It is wired direct to tender trucks. So no neutral and no reverse. When power applied
from transformer it starts to move in forward direction. Actually a better situation.


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Ok that makes sense thankyou.al


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

If u can when done show pictures thanks al.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I usually take my pics out side on a sunny day. But it is winter here. Cloudy today and it is snowing so here is a pic for now. It
is the top pic. Somehow my K335 pic got attached. The wires from engine to tender are Super Flex so I doubt I will change them.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Cab number says 303 but this engine has nothing in common with a real 303. This is
a Frankenstein engine. Someone put this freak together. Not even the 303 numbers are correct.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Not my first Frankenstein engine. I bought what was suppose to be a 283 from a
forum member here. Its not. Maybe the shell is correct. It has a plug from engine to
tender, should be direct wired. It should have pulmor wheels, it doesn't. I guess
he forgot to tell me these things. Oh, when I picked it up from shipping box the
front truck fell off of tender. What a great seller. Hope he sees this. But like this
303, the 283 was cheap priced.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

MOPAC, to change the subject, are you still interested in a 295??. No tender but that's not a problem. I'm tearing it down as we speak, doing a complete rebuild on it.Graphics are nice, shell has the usual scratches, etc.


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Love the k335 the 303 looks normal to me but what do i knowlol


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The 303 looked normal to me also. I have since found out it isn't but its ok. I like it.
It runs. Whats not to like. I think it is the only Atlantic with knuckle coupler I have.
A real 303 has knuckle coupler also. That just set the hook deeper.
I have not learned how to convert couplers yet and I do not have the tools yet.

flyernut, I have no train funds right now. I got real stupid at you know where. Will be 
at least a month before I have any train funds. If you still have then, I will talk to you.
It is not something I am dying for.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Double post, sorry.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Mopac that K335 looks good to me. As I said a while back, I have never had a burning desire to own a Northern but you guys keep showing them and making me re-think my opinion. 
As to your 303, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as it runs and you are happy, run it, Frankenstein or not. Who is going to know if it is the real thing or not? Your railroad. In the mean time, if you still want a real Gilbert 303, keep looking. Just my opinion. 
As to how to convert couplers, check Portlines list of "how to" articles. I just thought of it or I would have the number of the article for you. Read that article and you will see it isn't that difficult. Doug lists a tool that is needed but I just use a piece of 5/16 steel tubing, a vice jaw top, and a ball peen hammer. Of course this is assuming you have a knuckle coupler handy. 

Kenny


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