# Beginner electrical question



## tandemrotor46 (Oct 1, 2013)

Hello all. I am looking for recommendations on how to power some building lights with a low voltage requirement. I recently purchased a bunch of O scale K-Line buildings. I thought they were going to come with a regular plug for the lights. When I opened them up I discovered bare wires and instructions that say then need low voltage. Can anyone recommend an inexpensive low voltage transformer that I can wire all the building too? Any other ideas are welcome too. Thanks in advance.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Since the buildings were made for an 0 gauge layout they
more than likely use track vollages. Your transformer 
should have accessory terminals that would also have
the correct voltage.

If they did not come with bulbs then you should be
able to find the correct voltage and base to fit
the sockets at a hobby shop. They would be around
14 volts or so.

The output voltages will be shown on the transformer
label.

Don


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## tandemrotor46 (Oct 1, 2013)

They have the bulbs installed. I thought about using the train transformer, but if I understand it correctly, the buildings won't light unless the the train is running? Is that a correct assumption? I'm looking to have the buildings lit even if the train isn't running.


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## michael cuneo (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi you didn't say if you had a transformer for your trains. if you do there is an accessory terminal on the back of it. If you dont have one any small transformer will work as long as the voltage is the same wall warts the small black ones you plug into the wall. I save all mine you never know when or what they can be used for


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## tandemrotor46 (Oct 1, 2013)

My train transformer has an accessory terminal. Does that terminal deliver power even in the 'throttle' handle is in the 'off' position?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, the accessory terminals are ON with same voltage all the
time that the Transformer is turned on. When you use the
speed controls the voltage on the track varies, but the
accessory terminals does not. So just run wires from the building directly
to the accessory terminals. Let there be light. 

Don


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, the accessory outputs are always hot if the transformer has power.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I would get another small transformer and run them. They aren't that expensive.
That way you can control the brightness if you want to.
The more lights you add take away from the train transformer power for the trains.
All those lights add up in the end if you add a lot.


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## tandemrotor46 (Oct 1, 2013)

Great. Thanks for all the input. I actually just got done connecting one building to test it out. There are 6 buildings total. Is the gonna draw too much power away from the train? The layout is a small one for Christmas. Lionel Polar Express kit that I added a few extra pieces of track to


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tandemrotor46 said:


> Great. Thanks for all the input. I actually just got done connecting one building to test it out. There are 6 buildings total. Is the gonna draw too much power away from the train? The layout is a small one for Christmas. Lionel Polar Express kit that I added a few extra pieces of track to


No that should be fine.
I am talking about a whole lot of lights. For what your doing it should be fine.


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## tandemrotor46 (Oct 1, 2013)

Last question...Is it ok to just tie these all with a wire nut? Or should I do something different?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tandemrotor46 said:


> Last question...Is it ok to just tie these all with a wire nut? Or should I do something different?


What transformer do you have?
Some wire connectors on the wires would look neater, but I would guess a wire nut would be OK.


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

maybe it might be a little easier by using a terminal strip.
this way there will only be one wire to the transformer.


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## tandemrotor46 (Oct 1, 2013)

I was thinking a terminal strip too. Do they sell something like that atLowes? The transformer is a Lionel CW-80


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

maybe, but for sure radio shack


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## bbqbill (Oct 12, 2013)

I was in the local Hobby Lobby yesterday and saw lighting set ups for doll houses that would be perfect for lighting a train board. you would be separate from your train power supply that way.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bbqbill said:


> I was in the local Hobby Lobby yesterday and saw lighting set ups for doll houses that would be perfect for lighting a train board. you would be separate from your train power supply that way.


For what he is doing the transformer he has should be OK, but I am with you, I would go for a different supply. One that you could control the intensity of the lights. It will save on light bulb life some and you could dim them or turn them up if you want.

On my layout I am currently running all my lights off a CW-80 and I have them set to the throttle control. If I want them dimmer I just turn the power down. I have a ZW for the trains.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*terminal strip best way.*



tandemrotor46 said:


> Last question...Is it ok to just tie these all with a wire nut? Or should I do something different?


 If I were you, you should use a terminal strip found at radio shack. That way you won't get your wires crossed.regards,tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*additional information on lights*

lights, when there connected in series have a dimming effect.When you have a whole lot of lights, they should be connected in parallel. Regards,
tr1


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tr1 said:


> lights, when there connected in series have a dimming effect.When you have a whole lot of lights, they should be connected in parallel. Regards,
> tr1


Actually, this is not really universally true. You have to take this on a case by case basis.

Typically, if you connect lights in parallel, you'll be using more power unless your power supply is matched exactly to the light voltage.

This is not a question that only has one answer.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*never a simple answer regarding electricalQuestions*

Thank you gun runner
regards,
tr1


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

OK, this thread is starting to go a little over the top. First of all, accessory terminals are marked "acc", not "AC". "AC" means "alternating current", period. All your transformers and/or power packs are AC at the plug end. They "transform" your 110VAC household current to the lower (and safer) AC voltage your trains and accessories (turnouts, building lights, signals, etc.) need to operate. Most model trains use DC (direct current) motors and variable voltage to control speed and direction, though, so the AC output from the transformer portion of the power pack gets fed through a bridge rectifier and rheostat to convert it to variable DC to feed power to the track. So, Yes, Virginia, there IS such a thing as a "fixed" DC output (after the rectifier but before the rheostat), a 'variable" DC output to the track, and a "fixed" AC output for whatever you need it for.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, you're talking about HO power packs. Most O-gauge power is AC to the tracks and accessories.


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## Ray Haddad (Feb 19, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, you're talking about HO power packs. Most O-gauge power is AC to the tracks and accessories.


Most? Some three rail perhaps but most two rail is DC or DCC to the tracks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, Most was a correct statement. The amount of 2-rail O-scale pales in comparison to the amount of 3-rail.


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## Ray Haddad (Feb 19, 2014)

Seriously, John? I disagree. Since you probably hang out with modelers who share your interest you might be misled by that. I barely see any serious modeling in 3 rail O.

But it's irrelevant to the discussion. There is a difference between AC and Acc, which was the point.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Ray Haddad said:


> Seriously, John? I disagree. Since you probably hang out with modelers who share your interest you might be misled by that. I barely see any serious modeling in 3 rail O.
> 
> But it's irrelevant to the discussion. There is a difference between AC and Acc, which was the point.


Stop picking on John. 


I barely see any serious modeling in 3 rail O.








No matter how big the trains are they are ALL toys. :smokin:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Who said serious modeling? I just said that the amount of 3-rail stuff is far more than 2-rail. Certainly in the US, it has to be at least a ten or twenty to one ratio. When's the last time you saw a 2-rail O-gauge starter set?

I don't dispute that the 2-Rail O-gauge stuff is more likely to be more accurate models, but that's not the statement I made. Remember, we were talking about how to power the rails.


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## Ray Haddad (Feb 19, 2014)

John, I kid you not when I tell you that I have seen only one person modeling 3 rail O gauge here in the USA during my 50+ years in the hobby. When I go to train shows, I see the odd layout but there is minimal modeling being done. Just plastic buildings plopped down in various places. In November last year, there was one fellow selling such old 3 rail track that I was surprised he was there at all.

Do you model only 3 rail O? Is it possible that is why you see so many in that arm of the hobby? I seek out others in N Gauge for that reason but I always accept an invitation to visit any layout in any scale or gauge.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ray, let's agree to disagree, OK? I'm not going to get into an argument about this, you stick to what you believe, and I'll stick to what I believe. I understand that many 2-railers don't consider what we do as modeling, and that's just fine with me. The great part about this hobby is there's room for all styles and opinions.

Try going to the York TCA Meet, probably the largest O-gauge gathering in the US, and tell me that you see more 2-rail than 3-rail, then let me know how you feel.


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## Ray Haddad (Feb 19, 2014)

You win John. I give up. You are absolutely correct and I am as wrong as I have ever been. Agree to disagree? Not any more. I agree with you 100% and always will.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It is the old third rail unrealistic debate.

John I think what Ray is referring to is not the O 2 rail but more like N scale or HO scale 2 rail being more realistic. It is a lot harder to build an O layout to bring to a show then an N layout. It is the old third rail unrealistic debate.

You only saw 1 in 50 years? Have you been modeling N for 50 years? Or did you start out with HO? I don't think you have posted any of your layout? Or maybe I missed them?

Ray what you have to do if they have any in your area is go to some O gauge open house events. Some clubs have them and the members private layouts get shown. 
I don't think there are many tours here in the northeast as there is down south or out in the west. 

I don't care what scale you model in trains, modeling is modeling. And I say they are ALL toys. I enjoy seeing all scales of model railroads. That is why I like this site, it is not confined to just one scale. Some sites like ones dedicated to just N will shun a member for the mere mention of O gauge trains. Modeling is modeling and it comes in all forms/sizes, and modeled in all styles. Some like the toy train aspect and just "plop" plasticvilles all over.
I also think that a lot of N and even HO modelers who model their smaller trains because of the room size/space requirements needed for O.

Like I said I like them all, even ones with Plasticville buildings "plopped" around, if the unrealistic 3 rails trains were never made way back when we might not even have ANY model trains to "play" with. OK, maybe you don't "play" with your trains? 
I do be it the N or HO or O.

Here are a few pictures of a three rail layout in someones house. They look pretty good? There are more in the USA, but not as many as N or HO scale model railroads I will agree with you there.
This is down in the Atlanta area.

I know, it is that third rail that makes it look so unrealistic huh? 
At least there are not any Plasticville just "plopped" around.:smokin:



























































tandemrotor46, I have numerous transformers, I won a cw-80 for a good price, as I was bidding on that one I had a real low bid on another and to my amazement won it so I ended up with 2 cw-80's. After I had them for a while I got me a ZW. 
So I just power my lights off the cw-80 and I set it up on the throttle side to control the intensity of the brightness. I have a box of others for N and HO. I have a bunch more I picked up in junk lots here and there, some need work some don't.
One can never have enough transformers. 
You could pick up another transformer for powering the lights fairly cheap, then you won't be taking power away from the rail. Set it up to the throttle side and you can control them too.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, there's probably more HO stuff around than all the other scales combined, that's certainly true.


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## BK R (Dec 8, 2012)

Nice photos biged.:appl:


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

Isn't the "unrealistic" middle rail and the tie-spacing the main reason Lionel introduced "Super O" track back in the 50's? Sure made track power wiring a lot easier than 2-rail. To each his own- I know some who run their trolleys and other electrics on powered catenaries and others who use track power. Some use EZ track (don't know why), some use flex track exclusively, and there are a few intrepid souls who still lay their own rails and build their own turnouts the old-fashioned way- one rail at a time and frog by frog. There's more than enough room in the hobby for all of them, in all scales. It's all about taking YOU into the part of YOUR imagination you want to visit now and then. It doesn't matter whether you have a toy train running in a circle around your Christmas tree or a computerized "z"guage layout that fills a warehouse. It's what makes YOU happy. (Of course, you should ALWAYS take your wife into account- she might not be overjoyed with your plan to knock a couple of holes in the walls so you can run that "Big Boy" through the living room).


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

I really don't care about the 3rd rail, looks fine to me and it's more realistic than my layout
Then again, I'm hardly a rivet counter:laugh:
Anyway, for lighting I use an old desktop computer power supply, works ok but my lights are made for 12v dc, I actually run them on 5v as 12v was too bright!


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*BIg City, Bright Light's*

If the lights seem too bright, you may put a rheostat in the line (electrical)between your transformer and your lights. So now, you will be able to dim down the lights as you choose. Or desire. Regards,tr1


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For any quantity of lights, a rheostat will be pretty large, probably time to consider a variable power supply as an alternative.


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

Now that could be interesting... I'm happy with them on the 5v at the moment plus they may last longer since they are incandescent globes in them
Also with a variable supply of any kind you would want some kind of regulator or limiter so that you don't blow all the lights if the supply gets set to put out too high a voltage


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