# 282 and 283



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Does a 283 have the same motor as a 282? Will the armature be the same. I think my 282 has a bad armature. My plan is to get
a 283 and change parts till I get my 282 running right and replace the bad part and have a 282 and 283 running right. Ya
can't have too many locomotives can you?


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Does a 283 have the same motor as a 282? Will the armature be the same. I think my 282 has a bad armature. My plan is to get
> a 283 and change parts till I get my 282 running right and replace the bad part and have a 282 and 283 running right. Ya
> can't have too many locomotives can you?


I believe they're the same.. As for too many loco's, you're right, can't have too many.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks.

GOT STEAM?


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Thanks.
> 
> GOT STEAM?


And that's not all of them,lol...


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The full answer to the motor question is possibly they are different. On any specific production date the motors used would be the same but the armature design changed over time. The fields remained the same. 
Engines made up through 3/1951 had what is known as the version 3 steam armature. 1951 production had a purple rather than clear coat. Beginning at the end of March 1951 the motors used version 4 of the steam armature. The appearance of this improved armature is quite a bit different with larger laminations resulting in a much smaller gap between poles. The commutator is also advanced 4/32" in relation to the poles for better performance. Think of this as adding in advance on a car distributor. A purple coating indicates 1951 production.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is a lot of Gilbert stream power in the picture. I am sure it also represents a lot of personal time overhauling all of them for top performance.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyer said:


> The full answer to the motor question is possibly they are different. On any specific production date the motors used would be the same but the armature design changed over time. The fields remained the same.
> Engines made up through 3/1951 had what is known as the version 3 steam armature. 1951 production had a purple rather than clear coat. Beginning at the end of March 1951 the motors used version 4 of the steam armature. The appearance of this improved armature is quite a bit different with larger laminations resulting in a much smaller gap between poles. The commutator is also advanced 4/32" in relation to the poles for better performance. Think of this as adding in advance on a car distributor. A purple coating indicates 1951 production.


The definitive answer !!! Thanks for chiming in...I knew there was a difference in the design/manufacture of the armatures, but I wasn't aware of production dates,etc.. Again, thanks!!:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Maybe I should just have my armature rewound. Motor Doc does it if he is still in business.
But here is a problem. Some of you will remember my story. When I was young a wire to
the plug broke and my dad sent the engine to a train repair shop. When we got it back, out
of the box, it ran half speed and gets real hot. The shop shouldn't have the engine apart, but if they did, they could have mixed my armature with another armature.
Motor Doc says that if field gets hot and engine runs slow, its a bad armature. My field
and brush caps get extremely hot. AmFlyer, maybe I will take a pic of my armature and you might know which version it is. My armature seems to fit well, just a little play, forwards or backwards. I will also take a pic installed so you can see how it fits the field.
Now I am afraid a 283 will have a different armature. Even another 282 could have a different armature.Such a simple motor. Should not be this difficult. It used to run like a scared rabbit. Like a flyer should. Train shop did something. They didn't test run it.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If you put a version 4 armature in a 282 engine that was originally built with a version 3 armature it will not hurt anything. The engine may run slightly better and the fields were the same. 
I will try to post pictures of these 2 armatures in the morning before I leave for the week.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Armature on the left is the "newer" version.. Armature on the right is the "older" version. Newer one will measure 2.33", while the old one will measure 2.27".


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Don't forget the spacers or mix them up when dealing with more than one.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Those are the two versions of the armatures, and the newer version has the purple coating.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Don't forget the spacers or mix them up when dealing with more than one.


Yep, that can happen.. Actually they're called shims, and you can buy them in different widths, we're talking thousands of a inch. The way you use them is to have the last armature plate level or equal to the last plate of the field coil.


----------

