# New to model trains. Help and advice appreciated.



## phdezra (Nov 28, 2010)

Hi all. I'm brand new to this hobby, so I thought I'd post a short note with some questions considering the mass of knowledge everyone here seems to have about model trains. Background: I'm a thirtysomething guy with a family in New York City. We have children (five of them ranging in age from 3 years to 9 years) and live in a three-bedroom apartment, and by golly, I am determined to setup a model train set! 

Initially (before reading thousands of posts and online articles), I was thinking I'd buy a Lionel New York Central Flyer Set (O scale) http://www.trainz.com/p-198738-lionel-30103-new-york-central-flyer-set.aspx?CAWELAID=611031298 and that would be that (approx $270 depending on the shop). However, I soon eliminated this set from my list because a) considering that I live in an apartment (three bedrooms with a large living room), I now believe O scale would be too large, and b) especially because the basic kits are a plain oval loop which the kids will find boring in a heartbeat (though *a* train set would be better than *no* train set) thus adding more track is not feasible in a small place.

Thus, I did a couple weeks of research, read a ton of posts on here and also visited Gotham Model Trains http://www.gothammodeltrains.com/, which is located a few blocks from my office. WOW. What a store! The owner (Robert) was extremely helpful in answering my initial rapid-fire questions, and I fell in love with an MTH Mikado http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200803270 steam loco in HO scale with lights and smoke. I don't think I would run smoke 'on' all the time, but I do like the New York Central line and the details on this loco (although the loco itself is $400 or so). In any event, this became (and still is) my goal. I am not in a rush, and I want to do it right...

So, my main question revolves around a feasible HO layout?!  The space I have available is essentially 6' x 3.5' (pullout board on wheels under a twin bed). Yet it seems as though even though HO is smaller than O, I would still have to settle on an oval (mostly) Main Line with no real spurs/branch lines and just simple trackwork?

For instance, on the Kato site, HO Plan 8 http://www.katousa.com/track-plans/ho-plans.html is essentially an oval with one small additional loop (name?). Compare that to the Manning Oaks layout (sixth on the list) in the smaller N scale http://www.katousa.com/track-plans/n-plans.html.

I *really* like the track plans and layouts for N scale models, but unfortunately, N Scale trains would probably be *too small* for my kids (and it's not just for me ). The small size of the N scale rolling stock is the only thing holding me back.

Is there a layout that can fit in my approx space (6' x 3.5') that is closer to Manning Oaks than a simple oval?

Any thoughts and advice/corrections on my errors/etc is appreciated. Thank you.

- Ezra


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi Ezra,

Sounds like the whole family is in for some fun! Welcome to the forum ... nice to have you here.

I suggest you delve into the "canned" layout plans on the Thor website ... gauges and layout sizes in a wide range.

http://www.thortrains.net/

Here's just a few, but there's lots of similar menus within the Thor site:
http://www.thortrains.net/nscale/homini1a.html
http://www.thortrains.net/poorhox.html

In short, I think you can certainly achieve more than just a simple oval.

Track curve radius will certainly come into play. And, as you go for tighter turns, you WILL be forced to consider (and limit) the range and size of locos and cars that will comfortably navigate around the turns. Radius and car/loco size goes hand-in-hand, to a large extent.

Hope this helps,

TJ


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## phdezra (Nov 28, 2010)

Thanks TJ. Helpful points and I hadn't come across that website. 

How will I know (ahead of time) if the loco I referenced above (Mikado, 2-8-2) will be able to handle tight curves? How convert the "2-8-2" to radii curves?

Thanks.


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## TONOFFUN80 (Jan 9, 2010)

Most engines will say on the box the recomended radius they need


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Minimum for a 2-8-2 would most likely be ~18" radius maybe more.

Have you considered a shelf type or modular layout (where you can set-up/tear down depending on needs. Or even something that can slide underneath a bed?


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## Smokestack Lightning (Oct 31, 2010)

phdezra said:


> Hi all. I'm brand new to this hobby, so I thought I'd post a short note with some questions considering the mass of knowledge everyone here seems to have about model trains. Background: I'm a thirtysomething guy with a family in New York City. We have children (five of them ranging in age from 3 years to 9 years) and live in a three-bedroom apartment, and by golly, I am determined to setup a model train set!
> 
> Initially (before reading thousands of posts and online articles), I was thinking I'd buy a Lionel New York Central Flyer Set (O scale) http://www.trainz.com/p-198738-lionel-30103-new-york-central-flyer-set.aspx?CAWELAID=611031298 and that would be that (approx $270 depending on the shop). However, I soon eliminated this set from my list because a) considering that I live in an apartment (three bedrooms with a large living room), I now believe O scale would be too large, and b) especially because the basic kits are a plain oval loop which the kids will find boring in a heartbeat (though *a* train set would be better than *no* train set) thus adding more track is not feasible in a small place.
> 
> ...


I've said it before. If I had space constraints. I would go N scale. Look at Shay's stuff. It's awesome. And small.


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## phdezra (Nov 28, 2010)

I see now -- on the box -- but how do I translate what it says on the box (for instance 18" radius) to the various layout on the Thor site?


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## Smokestack Lightning (Oct 31, 2010)

phdezra said:


> I see now -- on the box -- but how do I translate what it says on the box (for instance 18" radius) to the various layout on the Thor site?


18" radius. Is 36" for 180 degree turn. You basically need 4' for a complete 180 on HO


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## phdezra (Nov 28, 2010)

Smokestack Lightning said:


> I've said it before. If I had space constraints. I would go N scale. Look at Shay's stuff. It's awesome. And small.


Yes - I have already drooled at some people's stuff..!

I would love to go N scale all the way; I have seen many photos and looked at some trains in person, but a) I am afraid the locomotives would be too small for the kids and, b) for a newbie like myself, the N scale trains seem to look better in photos than in real life when compared to HO scale. (Not knocking N, just considering the issues)


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Smokestack Lightning said:


> 18" radius. Is 36" for 180 degree turn. You basically need 4' for a complete 180 on HO


I'm gonna clarify that last sentence, if I may. As stated, one has a pretty comfortable margin from "the dreaded edge".

A 4' layout would fit a 22" radius (44" diameter) HO setup OK, but with less edge margin.

As a side note, I love sheets of MDF ... standard size is 49" x 97" ... a whole extra 1", compared to your basic sheet of plywood.

Oh, Ezra ... Many train manufacturer will list loco tech specs (including recommended minimum track radius) on their websites.

Cheers,

TJ


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## JoeElder (Dec 4, 2010)

*Limited Space - Newbie is curious*

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything, but I find myself in the same boat as the person who started this thread. My wife and I and our little boy share a spacious two-bedroom apt. Our son is 1 and loves things that move and make sounds. He's too young for trains yet, but I think in a couple of years I will get us an O Gauge set for him to grow into and for both of us to enjoy ( I had my lionel set when I was four and loved it for years).

I'm fairly methodical and in no rush, but last week I stopped by a Burbank train shop and had a look. I found the HO scale to be a good middle ground, but I must say when I finally make the purchase I might go with O. Like the other father here, I can imagine small hands being frustrated with the smaller models.

I don't think we could ever have a large layout, but I was thinking that with the space available, we could start a fun O Gauge (MTH or Lionel) oval. Perhaps a spur could be run, forming a sort of Q; sort of making a bit of a yard for a second train? Would love to hear from people who have attempted modest but fun arraingements using limited spaces.


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## phdezra (Nov 28, 2010)

JoeElder said:


> Not trying to hijack this thread or anything, but I find myself in the same boat as the person who started this thread. My wife and I and our little boy share a spacious two-bedroom apt.


In my continued research, I have learned that Marklin HO track enables one to make tighter curves, and therefore, one could "fit" a longer track in the place of other brands. (There is another thread I started on seeking advice regarding starting with Marklin digital starter set.) Point is, that it seems quite doable.

Bear in mind that your "spacious" two bedroom apt will be home to more and more toys, excersaucer, etc. so the smaller sized set may come in handy....


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

My 4 and 7 year olds don't have any problem with HO scale....just make sure the one's they are playing with aren't your real nice cars (accidents will happen)


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

As much as I love my O, I wouldn't say that it calls out for a "small space" layout. You could make a simple, small oval, of course, but not too much excitement there.

HO offers wider track configuration possibilites in a confined space. N and Z are likely much too tiny for small kids. And then ... (Reckers, I'm biting my tongue!) ... there's always S, which fits nicely between HO and O.

TJ


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## phdezra (Nov 28, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> As much as I love my O, I wouldn't say that it calls out for a "small space" layout. You could make a simple, small oval, of course, but not too much excitement there.
> 
> HO offers wider track configuration possibilites in a confined space. N and Z are likely much too tiny for small kids. And then ... (Reckers, I'm biting my tongue!) ... there's always S, which fits nicely between HO and O.


As implied in my first post, living in an apartment with children severely limits space available for a train set. Therefore, an O scale set pretty much has to be eliminated (unless it's *just* a small oval running around the Christmas tree once a year--otherwise, anything larger in O will get in the way it seems.

As for HO, yes there are larger layouts, but even with HO it seems that the more interesting layouts take up considerable space. Bear in mind that "considerable" is relative, but a 4' x '8 HO layout is 'large' in an apartment. That's one of the reasons why I am considering Marklin because it's ability to handle tight curves and therefore come up with the best possible layotu in a small space, which I plan to roll out from under a bed or put on a table in the corner of the (apartment-sized) living room.

I will admit that it adds an extra level of challenge and fun to figure out how to fit a nice HO layout into an apartment. 

TJ - In the course of my research, I considered/thought about S, but it seems as though S scale is very limited in what is available, tracks, etc? Any good links/ideas?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

phdezra said:


> TJ - In the course of my research, I considered/thought about S, but it seems as though S scale is very limited in what is available, tracks, etc? Any good links/ideas?


Hi Ezra,

I'm way outside my element here, but you might try looking at:

http://myflyertrains.org/

and for parts and accessories http://www.portlines.com/

Maybe Reckers, Stillakid, or Timboy might chime in.

Cheers,

TJ


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## TONOFFUN80 (Jan 9, 2010)

remember that the marklin will run the smaller radius but it limits your engine size


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

Ezra...maybe you could have a long, skinny, 1 ft. wide shelf layout. Can have lots of switches and sidings on something like that.

Chad


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Hi Ezra,
> 
> I'm way outside my element here, but you might try looking at:
> 
> ...



Ezra, 

IMHO, you need to go with HO instead of S. S is a terrific scale and I love it, but you do not have the space for it if you're in an apartment. There's actually a considerable amount available for it, but HO has a larger user base and consequently, is less expensive.

Should you decide to go ahead with the S anyway, we'd love to have you and to welcome you to the elite of model railroading.


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