# lionel tmcc vs mth dcs



## zinger1970 (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm thinking of upgrading . looking for pro's and con's on lionel tmcc vs mth dcs which would be better?


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## NYC 5344 (Dec 26, 2012)

Well, I can't be an honest judge because I haven't worked with MTH DCS. I will say, though, that TMCC and Legacy control work great, and all the control hardware is seamlessly integrated, from turnout controllers, to accessory controllers, to uncouplers. Also, there are many trackside accessories already TMCC equipped, that make it so much easier to connect. However, the real decision depends on what locomotives you plan to run. I don't know if Lionel will run on DCS or vise versa, but it would probably be best to stick to one brand, one you may already have.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

I have DCS and am not familiar with TMCC or Legacy but the Lionel digital control and the MTH DCS can exist on the same layout. The DCS controller can control the TMCC trains. You have to implement the DCS and add a Lionel base station. Then you can run either Lionel TMCC/Legacy or MTH DCS trains, both at the same time from one controller. Or that is what the DCS instruction manual states (Download the manual from the MTH site to verify what I said). The TMCC is much more complicated to set up while the DCS setup is almost automatic.

The DCS controls the trains (*T*rain *I*nterface *U*nit), the switches and accessories (*A*ccessory *I*nterface *U*nit). 

My 9 x 10 layout includes 7 switches, over 100 sections of track, and 6 operating accessories all controlled via the remote which runs the TIU and AIU. a Feature that currently I am testing and finding amusing is the record feature. I press record then run the trains for up to 50 minutes. When I stop the recording and put the trains back to their starting position the whole run time is repeated exactly when I press play. Trains start up and shut down, accessories turn on and off, switches change at the right time. It is fun to watch the scenario repeat. There are other features I have yet to explore. The manual tells all.

LDBennett


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

well, I have both systems, I think both have good and bad ,but if I had to pick only one ,either DCS or Legacy, it would be Lionel Legacy, why? I feel that the legacy system remote responds faster, the locomotives run smoother at crawl speeds, have better sounds, easier to "lash up " locos, and crew talk can be act. while loco is in motion, But LIONEL SMOKE IS WEEK 

MTH , better price , better smoke



I don't fool around with the old TMCC ie. cab one stuff any more, why should I ??? ..............Mike


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## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

I just have TMCC. Works fine and reasonably priced. Those who have Legacy say it is a step up. Don


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

yes ,really, that's all it is, its just a re-fined version of TMCC, with a few extra features added, really, any one that is comfortable with TMCC can quickly adapt to Legacy, its not rocket science, and you can still run all of your older TMCC engines with Legacy. If a southern dummy like me can figure it out, I'm sure any one else can. ....Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have both, and I can say that both offer a lot of features, and each system has it's strong points.

Since the price for the control system is less than the price for a decent locomotive with either system, I'd just select the system at first based on the manufacturer's product line, i.e. which one offers the products closest to what you'd like to be running. You can always add the other system in the future, and they will run seamlessly together.


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## zinger1970 (Dec 10, 2012)

Big Mike said:


> yes ,really, that's all it is, its just a re-fined version of TMCC, with a few extra features added, really, any one that is comfortable with TMCC can quickly adapt to Legacy, its not rocket science, and you can still run all of your older TMCC engines with Legacy. If a southern dummy like me can figure it out, I'm sure any one else can. ....Mike


thanks everyone , then my other question big mike just answered , if TCMM can run with legacy , again thanks everyone great info!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Legacy will run virtually everything that you can run with the TMCC CAB1/BASE1. The single exception is the old PowerMaster units, you have to add the PowerMaster Bridge for Legacy to operate those.


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

I noticed in my reading of both manuals(Legacy, and DCS, and the DCS O-gauge companion 2nd edtion or whatever it is that I bought) and couldn't find anywhere in the Legacy manual any info on operating conventional locos. Is this possible with the Legacy system? The DCS books describe in detail how to run conventional locos on a DCS layout, but the Legacy manual completely skips conventional locos(as if you shouldn't even think about having both on one layout, and I have way more conventional locos, than TMCC, Proto X, or Legacy...). Unless it's buried in an area I can't find, or was not included in my digital copy...


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

In order to run conventional stuff with just the Legacy system, you need a Legacy PowerMaster or a TPC-300 or TPC-400. You can also use a ZW-C or ZW-L Lionel transformer which also offers command control of track voltage.

The MTH TIU controls track power, the Legacy system does not directly control track power.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> In order to run conventional stuff with just the Legacy system, you need a Legacy PowerMaster or a TPC-300 or TPC-400. You can also use a ZW-C or ZW-L Lionel transformer which also offers command control of track voltage.
> 
> The MTH TIU controls track power, the Legacy system does not directly control track power.


 I was thinkng about these same questions today and here it is in this thread. I currently have an old lionel post-war steamer, 2 MTH steamers with just whistle and smoke, a Lionel starter set with just railsounds and smoke, a new PS'3 MTH (still in the shop) and a K-Line 4-8-4 with TMCC. 
I bought an MTH DCS Remote Commander recently at a sale and haven't used it since it is constant voltage only and with the PS3 always in the shop I've never used it and for that matter I guess I can't anyway unless the ps3 comes back. Will this K-Line with TMCC work with the DCS remote commander which is just the one with just a few more buttons than the ones that used to come in the MTH starter sets. 
I'd like to try a remote control with this K-Line just to see how it works with it and I'm pretty sure it will operate the PS3 if it ever comes home and stays. 
I only gave $50 for the DCS remote commander so it's no great loss if I can't use it but I'd like to try the K-Line with a remote of some sort just to see how it acts in that mode since it is by far my best engine other than the PS'3 under warranty that I've just about forgotten about ever using, or even having for that matter. More than likely my next engines will probably be MTH PS'2s if I find them reasonable enough. I'm pretty sure you said a while back that the K-Line will only run with a TMCC system didn't you or just Conventional with anybody's transformer. Would it be worth it just to get an older Lionel TMCC system for this if you can find such a thing for a price near $50-$60 that I paid for the DCS remote commander.
I know eventualy I will probably go with the full DCS system since I've heard they are more compatable with more different types of engines than the Lionel Legacy without adding on a lot of extra gadgets but that's gonna be down the road a little since I'm basing a lot of my decission on it with this PS'3 I never have long enough at a time to try it on somebody's DCS system.
Also with the full DCS system using the remote switch adapter can you still operate the switches with the controllers that come with them when you're standing at the control pannel.
I also believe that if a ps'2 or 3 engine is run on a DCS track that it has to be reprogramed with the DCS system to run conventional again, is this true? If I find a reasonable priced TMCC system will it give me the ability to reprogram the K-Line engine back to conventional again?
And finally will the full DCS system operate the K-Line with TMCC and fire it's coupler and any extras which might be hidden in this engine I don't know about like crew talk ect. that I can't access now?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The DCS Remote Commander will only handle MTH PS/2 or PS/3 locomotives, it has no TMCC capability of any kind.

A TMCC engine will run conventional or command, and no reprogramming is required to alternate between the two modes of operation.

You can use the MTH AIU (accessory that connects to the TIU) to operate switches and accessories. You can also have the remote switches connected in parallel to operate the switches.

The full DCS system can't operate a TMCC without at least a TMCC command base cabled to it.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The DCS Remote Commander will only handle MTH PS/2 or PS/3 locomotives, it has no TMCC capability of any kind.
> 
> A TMCC engine will run conventional or command, and no reprogramming is required to alternate between the two modes of operation.
> 
> ...


 I think all MTH ps2 and later is DCS capable isn't it as far as MTH goes? And the 2005 and later MTH's with the 3 volt battery ones are more desirable is this also correct?
I'm trying to set some goals to try to only get engines that are all DCS capable from now on and not just jump on an engine that looks nice. I'm now looking for the real early Diesels, late 40's and real early 50's machines. I really love the look of the old F3's, I'm sure MTH made a bunch of PS2's like that didn't they?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yes, PS/2 and PS/3 are the DCS equipped product lines. The 3V board is more desirable for several reasons. It appears to be a more robust design, and if it has an issue, it's also a lot easier to repair. Most times a 5V board set goes dead, it stays that way. I've revived a number of 3V boards from the grave, they're much easier to work on.

If you go to MTH Trains and search on F3, you'll turn up the products that were produced.


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## zinger1970 (Dec 10, 2012)

thanks for all the info , it looks like I will start with TMCC, thanks again


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