# My first layout - Opinions



## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi everyone, this is my first post and I thought I'd like to say hi by contributing here with my build. I have a 3 yr old boy and I bought him his very first train set. A lego Duplo train set. This got my inner child to come out and play and I decided to start investing in some N scale stuff. I grew up around HO but decided I wanted to venture into the N scale realm. So to my layout. I have a strange room that I can't do anything with, so I thought I'd add a train in there. Now, from the research I've gathered from people and what I've read, I understand that you want to be able to reach every section of the table without having to reach beyond 2ft. So here is my table and my rough drawing. Please help with any suggestions as I'm not 100% sold on my own layout. The table in my opinion is perfect, but if you see any improvements that I can make, let me know as well on that. My table as you can see isn't finished yet. I ran out of 1x4's so I'll be going to the HomeDepot to pick up some more Saturday!


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Looks good so far! Are you going to have any elevations and grades to tackle? Your framework would be great for a "Cookie cutter" type set up.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

Yes, the elevation is the scarey part. On the left hand side I have 3 rails going into a mountain. The outer to rails are going to by zero elevation, but the 3rd inner rail will need to be 3 to 4 inches high. I tried to draw in a rough bridge to give an idea, but not sure if people can see it in the pic.


What do you mean by cookie cutter?

And thanks for comments.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

I feel really welcome!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

trainbrain said:


> I feel really welcome!



Welcome.

Don't worry sometimes I post something and get over 100 looks at it, and not one comment.

Build some more, we are waiting for more to comment.


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## N scale catastrophe (Nov 18, 2012)

What do you mean by cookie cutter?

Cookie cutter means cutting pieces out of the plywood sub-strait to create your grade changes and levels. It's a little more difficult than just using foam board, but it allows for easier access to track etc. from underneath the layout and you can see exactly how the track plan will look once you've finished cutting and securing it all.
Here is a forum link discussing cookie cutter layouts:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=1340

and a youtube video (guy is boring to listen to but gives you the basics):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFHJt01lrp0

Good luck, and remember to have fun!


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

big ed said:


> Welcome.
> 
> Don't worry sometimes I post something and get over 100 looks at it, and not one comment.
> 
> Build some more, we are waiting for more to comment.


Thanks for the welcome.  While new here, I'm not new to forums. I've belonged to RCGroups for the last 5 years. I'm just getting bored with flying RC planes and wanted to move myself indoors especially since I have little ones now.

I've built my layout, and drawn out my plan, but I've never done this before, so I have no idea what I'm doing.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

So that what that means.
I just went to the kitchen to look at our cookie cutters to figure out what that meant.
I am glad you answered N.

Why didn't he just say what you said.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

N scale catastrophe said:


> What do you mean by cookie cutter?
> 
> Cookie cutter means cutting pieces out of the plywood sub-strait to create your grade changes and levels. It's a little more difficult than just using foam board, but it allows for easier access to track etc. from underneath the layout and you can see exactly how the track plan will look once you've finished cutting and securing it all.
> Here is a forum link discussing cookie cutter layouts:
> ...


Thanks for the definition on Cookie Cutter. I'm sooo new to this, terminology escapes me. I'd rather go the foam board route. I think. I'll take a look at those links and see if it changes my mind. 

How does my layout look?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Sometimes it takes a while to get some reply's.

Like I said in some of my threads I get over 100 looks at it and never do get a reply.
I am used to it, and the member online count is high this time of year with all the Christmas train people.
They are like snowbirds....seasonal members.

I think a lot are "bashful" too.

Build a little more you will get some reply's.....eventually.

The one advice I can give you at this point is to use or plan to use all the available space, the max, you have now in the beginning.
It always seems like whatever you plan for eventually you expand it anyway.

Even if you don't build it right now keep in your mind for the future expansion, if you do it now it will save you from ripping up stuff later to expand.

THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH ROOM FOR ALL THE TRAINS.
More below,


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

nice start on the construction, looks like it'll be quite solid


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

Here is what I got done today. Right now, I'm just laying it out before making it permanent. I need to make sure it will handle what I need it to do.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

broox said:


> nice start on the construction, looks like it'll be quite solid


Thanks!


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## N scale catastrophe (Nov 18, 2012)

trainbrain said:


> Thanks for the definition on Cookie Cutter. I'm sooo new to this, terminology escapes me. I'd rather go the foam board route. I think. I'll take a look at those links and see if it changes my mind.
> 
> How does my layout look?


Looks like you have the right idea. The cookie cutter process would eliminate the need for the piers you are using, but really it's all personal preference. Lesson learned the hard way: using foam board is great and easy, just make sure you know which buildings you want to light up and plan for their placement in advance otherwise you will be searching for really long drill bits.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

N scale catastrophe said:


> Looks like you have the right idea. The cookie cutter process would eliminate the need for the piers you are using, but really it's all personal preference. Lesson learned the hard way: using foam board is great and easy, just make sure you know which buildings you want to light up and plan for their placement in advance otherwise you will be searching for really long drill bits.


Thanks for the tips. Again, I'm not sure I'm not going to go that Cookie Cutter route. I just want to see if my design layout works. I'm just using those piers temporarily. I'm going to use foam ramps to get up to the elevation I need. I'll be going with a 2% grade and 4" risers. 

Good point on the drill bits. I just happen to have a few 12" long bits.


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## freeskier (Dec 11, 2012)

Glad you're going n scale! :thumbsup:

On my first layout I used the foam risers over a solid plywood top. You can use balled up newspaper covered with plaster cloth to build up terrain, looks pretty realistic and I couldn't mess it up no matter how badly did it. I haven't gained the courage, skill or space to build a cookie cutter layout, content with my foam and plaster.

Definitely a great choice for a first layout, it's quick and easy and lasts forever!
Looking forward to watching your progress, looks like a fun track plan too


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

Nice job on the benchwork! You have an interesting track plan, which should be fun to operate! I look forward to following your progress!

Chad


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## txdyna65 (Aug 17, 2012)

I agree, looks good so far, I used the 2% grade and some of the 4" risers you mentioned on my layout. Im assuming you mean the stuff woodland scenics makes? They were easy to use and took the guesswork out for me. One thing I might mention is for such a precise cut product, it wasnt. Two of the sections were off, but its foam and easy to correct. I needed alot more of the 4" stuff, but ended up making my own. Look forward to seeing your progress pics


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

freeskier said:


> Glad you're going n scale! :thumbsup:
> 
> On my first layout I used the foam risers over a solid plywood top. You can use balled up newspaper covered with plaster cloth to build up terrain, looks pretty realistic and I couldn't mess it up no matter how badly did it. I haven't gained the courage, skill or space to build a cookie cutter layout, content with my foam and plaster.
> 
> ...


Thanks Freeskier. I've wanted to go N scale since I was a little boy. All I ever had was HO growing up. Now that I have kids and they're into trains, I thought that would be a good idea for me to do it as well. What a better excuse than that!?  I like your thinking on your layout. Did you run it over insulation foam board as well? I'm debating with myself whether or not to use the insulation foam board between my track and the plywood. Thanks again for the comments! :thumbsup:


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

mr_x_ite_ment said:


> Nice job on the benchwork! You have an interesting track plan, which should be fun to operate! I look forward to following your progress!
> 
> Chad


Thanks Chad. I appreciate the comments on the table. After attaching the plywood to the table, it sure did make those 1x4's a lot stronger.  I'll do my best to keep photo updates here.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

txdyna65 said:


> I agree, looks good so far, I used the 2% grade and some of the 4" risers you mentioned on my layout. Im assuming you mean the stuff woodland scenics makes? They were easy to use and took the guesswork out for me. One thing I might mention is for such a precise cut product, it wasnt. Two of the sections were off, but its foam and easy to correct. I needed alot more of the 4" stuff, but ended up making my own. Look forward to seeing your progress pics


Thanks Txdyna65! I'm already seeing an issue with my drawing, so some of its going to have to be changed. I too need more of the 4" stuff than what I bought, but my thoughts were to double up on the 2" insulation foam board, Make notches in it so that its flexible and have a close replica of the woodland scenic stuff. Thanks for coming in.


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## txdyna65 (Aug 17, 2012)

Dont worry about changing it up, I probably changed my design 30 times or better before I was satisfied lol Im still in the building stage, have my track down and getting close to actually being able to run a train.

I left a link to my latest pictures to give you an idea of what the risers look like, or how I used them anyways, maybe it'll help you or give you ideas. I know I looked at tons on here and other places to give me ideas and help me along on mine. I do have a couple of S curves, but I have some straights in them to help it out.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=13663&page=7


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

N scale catastrophe said:


> Here is a forum link discussing cookie cutter layouts:
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=1340


Now, that is an old thread.


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## N scale catastrophe (Nov 18, 2012)

Southern said:


> Now, that is an old thread.


It's what came up when I searched for cookie cutter on the forum  Funny though, I thought cookie cutter only applied to cutting pieces put of your plywood top and securing blocking to make different levels for your track, the link talks about module sections also being called cookies. Is the term used for both concepts? I'm pretty new to this so I'm not sure.


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## freeskier (Dec 11, 2012)

trainbrain said:


> I like your thinking on your layout. Did you run it over insulation foam board as well? I'm debating with myself whether or not to use the insulation foam board between my track and the plywood. Thanks again for the comments! :thumbsup:


I just used a solid 4x8 sheet of plywood and elevated the track at least 2 inches. I think I used a combination of insulation foam and the bendy riders and grades from woodland scenics subterrain. The woodland scenics stuff is pretty nice because you really don't have to cut anything and you get premade grades.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

I'm changing it up a bit. I didn't realize how much real estate a 2% incline up to 4" would take up. So here is what I have now.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

LOL that is why I ended up with 3.3%


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

I'm not sure how your able to pull cars on a 3.3% grade. I can barely pull 8 cars on 2% without losing traction.


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## wjacob (Nov 26, 2011)

What's the radi of your curves in the elevated section?


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

9 3/4" radius track and 11" radius track. Equals out to 19 1/2" circum and 22" circum. Why?


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## wjacob (Nov 26, 2011)

Just wondering thanks


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

Whats everyones thoughts on this layout? Does anyone have any opinions on how to improve this layout?


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

1. Why the excessive height of that elevated section?
2. Those curves seem to tight, try for at least 22".
3. Do you have room for a larger table?
4. What type of operation do you want?

But, the most important; is it boring proof as far as operation?


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## trainbrain (Dec 26, 2012)

videobruce said:


> 1. Why the excessive height of that elevated section?
> 2. Those curves seem to tight, try for at least 22".
> 3. Do you have room for a larger table?
> 4. What type of operation do you want?
> ...


Hi Bruce, this is the largest I can do for a table. 22" isn't far off from what I have AND, even under full power none of my trains derail on those tight turns. I'm not finished with the track as I would like to have a turntable and a rail yard too. As for the height. I wanted the elevated track to appear really HIGH. No other reason than that.


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