# N scale in under 3*5 feet



## wrainey

Ever wanted to create a interesting layout, but don't have enough room for even a small three by five foot layout? Well do not despair because there is a micro sized alternative. Building an N scale model railroad in under 3 by 5 feet . Building in this size is perfect for one bedroom or even regular sized apartment dwellers like myself who want to incorporate model railroading into their home. On this thread you'll find tips, instructions, and track plans perfect for your small space. Even if you have a moderate sized space, but aren't quite sure you want to start off with a standard 4 by 8 or 4 by 6 foot layout, you are totally welcome on this thread also. Are you a seasoned model railroader looking to give tips or build your small layout? Come right on and come give tips and explore! I hope you micro model railroaders like this thread. 

Until next time lets climb aboard and see where our model railroading skills take us,
wrainey


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## Cycleops

Its perfectly possible to have a N scale layout in a lot less than 3 1/2 feet if you just want a shunting or switching arrangement. A simple fork plan will provide lots of entertainment.


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## Cycleops

http://www.carendt.com/ This is the link to Carl's small layout scrapbook. Loads of great ideas.


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## wrainey

Thanks for the link, I already looked through it and it provided some major inspiration in the first ten minutes.


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## Old Dude

Thanks guys. I have looked at Carl's mini layouts....and many more. As I am down sizing from HO in my later years (age 72) to N, this will become a meaningful thread. Hope we get tonnes of entries. I am now armed with stronger bifocals! So it should be no problem. Lol. I am thinking around the lines of 30"x40"... Seems very doable. I suspect it will consist of lots of imagineering and bear zero resemblance to the real world.

Dave


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## dannyc99

Here is a small layout that my friend made 31 wide by 28


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## wrainey

*Cool Layout*

These are some sweet pics. Your layout looks like the ultimate micro world. Keep us posted! :appl: :smilie_daumenpos:


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## wrainey

*Micro Trackplans*

Everyone knows that the key to smooth and realistic operation comes from a good track plan. However, in such a small space, it could be a bit tricky to get the perfect track plan that has both realistic operation, but still fist in that micro space of yours. There are two ways for you to get the perfect track plan to fit into your space. Option one is to pick a published track plan off the internet or from a library. I recommend going to www.thor trains.com. Once your there go to the all gauges page and click on the two by three foot layout section. There you'll find about fifteen plans all meant to fit your micro space. You can the either Keep the plan, down size it, or make it bigger. Another alternative is to buy some foam board, (the best bench work for a mini layout) buy some track or use some of the stuff you already have, and start mapping out the right of way. This is the way I recommend because it is pretty hard to find a track plan to fit some of these spaces. If your still having trouble with track planning, write a post and let me know so I can try to help you. Happy track planning!

Until next time,

wrainey


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## Old Dude

Whew! That is some serious amount of track in a very small area! Do you know the size of the table? The detail is dynamite...I especially like the safety buoyed area in the swimming hole. Any idea what kind of rolling stock is used on this pike? I am going to go with the smallest wheelbase, tightest turning, old stuff I can find. Even to the point of making it a "mining" railroad with nothing but tiny locos and tiny ore cars. Yes...he said with stronger bifocals...I am into pain. lol

Dave


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## dannyc99

It's 30 wide and 40 long. The locomotive was just an atlas gp38-2


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## wrainey

Do you run freight or passenger trains? Can you tell us which models?


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## dannyc99

Like I said this was a friends layout the rolling stock was all atlas freight cars no passenger cars


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## wrainey

*The First Spike*

Now that you have chosen a suitable track plan, your ready to take the first step with building a micro model railroad. At this point you may want to ask yourself "is this really what I want to do?" If the answer is yes, then your ready to start laying track on your micro layout. Now, n scale track can sometimes be tricky to get to line up correctly. However there is a very simple way to make your track alignment go smoothly. If you take your time an assemble the track correctly, you have a much better chance of good operation. After you are done assembling the track, most people would say to use your finger or test run a locomotive on the track to make sure it is correctly aligned. This may work sometimes but if you really want good track their is another simple solution that does not require getting the rails dirty or possibly damaging a locomotive. If you simply look along the track (if you have track with built in roadbed like some people do you can look along the road bed) you'll notice bumps along the track where track has not been aligned properly. Correct those places. Once your done, you should have the most fool proof track ever seen. After this has been completed you can hook up the feeder wires to your power pack and run your first train! :smilie_daumenpos: 

Hope this helps, wrainey


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## Florida RR

*The first spike* - I haven't quite gotten there yet. I have about one more month of time to plan left.

This thread is timed perfectly for me since I am about to start a new layout in under 3 x 5 feet. Specifically, 49.5 x 27 inches. So maybe we can talk some more about track plans in tight spaces like this before I get to the first spike.

How can we improve my fairly simple double oval (plan attached) without making a spaghetti bowl of track, or do I want/need a spaghetti bowl of track to cram more stuff to model into a small layout? This is going in a glass top coffee table with a layout size of 49.5 x 27 inches. It is for continuously running trains. Absolute realism is not essential although it should be "believable" with a little imagination and maybe fudging it a bit. Being inside a coffee table, fiddling with the trains constantly is not an option.

I started on paper with a plan that I found online that went twice around using an X to transition from outer loop to inner loop. I figured that would double the length of the main line. It did, but I found that to be not the best idea once I created a simple test oval. I realized with the test oval that a single train running the same direction in an oval all the time, even with a cross from innner to outer oval, would be pretty uninteresting. I also realized that the sides of the table keep the train out of view 40% of the time, which is handy because it gives the illusion of the train actually going somewhere and then returning rather than just going in a circle. So what's better than one train? Two trains, especially two trains from different railroads! It may not be the most realistic thing to have two main lines from two different railroads running in parallel, but I think I can overlook that. When we were kids, we didn't even care about running locomotives from different railroads and/or eras together and we all had great fun anyway.

So I am working with Seaboard Coast Line and Southern Railroad at the time (roughly) when Southern and Central of Georgia coexisted in the same colors. The outer oval would be a Seaboard Coast Line freight train on its way through some part of Georgia from Florida to an unknown destination. The innner oval would be Southern/Central of Georgia. I put a long curved siding inside the inner oval to give me the ability to run either one of two trains on the inner oval. One would be a freight train going a medium distance within the state and the other one could be just moving a few local cars filled with kaolin or wood or farm goods. I put a spur in the center for a local busines like a feed and seed or something similar. Turnouts on the main lines are kept to a minimum. I figure the fewer turnouts I have the fewer opportunities there are for things to require repair. I have tried to keep the radius as large as possible throughout, but even so I'll be limited to short rolling stock.

So, what other main line options do you see for this roughly 2 x 4 foot space? Also, there is lots of unused space in the center that could be used for a small town and farm land, and that was my original line of thought, but that large area seems to be just begging for some track! I do want a road or two as well since I already have some nice flashing signals. Remember, it's in a coffee table, so there is no fiddling with things on the layout daily.

I know one thing - on layouts this small, we have to use every square inch.

Edit: I forgot to attach the track plan! Oops! It's attached now. 

-Florida RR-


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## Old Dude

*Height Concensus*

Just kind of looking for a Concensus on who has what for heights of layouts. My last HO was at 40 inches. I am seriously considering 42-44 inches for the new N Scale. It is smaller of course, and reaching across will be much easier. It won't be modular, and there will not be children anywhere near it. I will have the option of inserting casters should I need to move it alone. It is 30x40 inches. Soooo, what are y'all using...and why...with what results? 

Dave


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## DonR

Dave

A good way to arrive at a clearance height for your layout
is to measure yourself in the sitting position you would use
to work on the under table wiring. Then add a few
inches to make sure you don't bump your noggin.

Mine came out to 38". 

Don


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## Cycleops

Whoa, stop right there FloridaRR !That track plan is perfect for what you want. If its in a coffee table you want plenty of scenery to look at, a visual feast, and leaving the centre free for that is ideal.


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## Florida RR

Cycleops said:


> Whoa, stop right there FloridaRR !That track plan is perfect for what you want. If its in a coffee table you want plenty of scenery to look at, a visual feast, and leaving the centre free for that is ideal.


Good answer. 

I'm trying to resist the temptation to cram in as much track as possible, which is what I refer to as a spaghetti bowl layout. Some people seem to be able to pull that off better than others, but if I put in a road, for example, I don't really think I want to see it crossing 4 or 5 tracks.

-Florida RR-


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## Old Dude

*Very nice Layout*

FloridaRR...it is very similar to what I am building on a 30x40 incher. Mine is just slightly difference in that I am going to have a right turnout, moving right to left at the 1230 position to allow the inner loop to communicate with the outer loop...and at the 6 o'clock position just the reverse. Close turnouts are so very lifelike...especially at slow speeds with "longish" consists. Great! Can't wait to see photos as you progress. I'll send some links from YouTube on British rail...yards, stations. Their switching is amazing. The average freight over there is 15-25 cars...which going through 3-4 turnouts butt-to-butt is a wonderful thing to watch.

Dave

Old Dude


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## Old Dude

FloridaRR... Start with these links to Brit rail. I'm a big rail fan, and so are most Brits....there are tons of YouTube videos like this.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OO9QB7u7f_c

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sXgoD6g10Ds


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## Florida RR

Old Dude, I had two links between the inner loop and the outer loop in my original track plan. I realized that they would never get used, so I eliminated them. Yes, they looked interesting, but having four more turnouts on my two continuously running main lines seemed like I would be asking for maintenance trouble. My turnouts are going to get beat to death day after day after day by trains every minute since my layout is so small.

At this point, I have two choices I guess. 1) Model a rural area just outside a city where my railroads intersect, which means open space in the center except maybe one business like a feed-n-seed, or 2) Choose to try to model a mid-size city where my railroads would interact in the center of the layout with multiple business and/or a yard.

What ever I do, the layout except for the two main lines and a siding are for static display only because this will be in a coffee table under glass. There won't be any movement on any other tracks. I can't see myself actually operating a yard with a non-DCC layout and glass on top. It might be interesting for me to pick a mid-size city and come up with a plan for it though. I'll give it a try and see what I come up with on paper. Paper is cheap, and I have at least 6 weeks to decide what to do. I have always modeled wide open spaces before now.

-Florida RR-


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## Florida RR

I keep looking at track plans like this one, wondering if I should get a bit more fancy in the center. I would keep my two continuous loops on the outside though.

-Florida RR-


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## Old Dude

*Wow*

FRR...That's a sweet layout. Is it really all jammed on a 2x5 ft table? Nice.


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## Florida RR

2'3" x 5'

The guy who designed that track plan is a master at cramming track in a tight space without making it look like a bowl of spaghetti. I wish I had his skill. I do have his track plans and the old Atlas software to open and edit them. I'm fiddling with them right now.  We will see what, if anything, I come up with.

You can find his plans online: Click here

The link to download the old Atlas software, which still works, is at the top of his page if anyone wants to download it. It may be clunky, but it does open his layout plans for editing.

-Florida RR-


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## Old Dude

*Hatching a Plan*

Having gone back and looked at Danny's layout photos, a thought came to me to try to model something I have never tackled before. Alas, there is not much info, and not much equipment, and finding an outlet could be a real show stopper....but, here goes. I want to build an N Scale traction layout with a city scape, catenary and the whole enchilada. Tight turns, short wheel bases, teeny tiny itty bitty wires and poles and all the other stuff involved. So go ahead. Download on me! I already know I'm nuts..so save your breath on that one...lol. What I need are suppliers, real, not imaginary. Ideas. Pitfalls, and there will be many. I'm not worried about the scape, the mechanics, the locomotive ins and outs as I have been a modeler for some 50 years. I need real life info on where I can get stuff, what you feel will be the real rewards and problems. And for heaven's sake don't tell my wife!!!!

Dave


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## JTW-BNSF

Hi,
I am new and found your thread. My current layout is 28" wide and 55" long. I had to add some length when I could not get the inner track to fit right. I started with a small L-shaped table found in a Peco catalog and attached it to the wall. I really did not have a real clear picture in my mind when I started. It is coming together over time however. I just added a Kato double-crossover today out of operating necessity. I have a grain silo, a milling company and a McDonalds (the granddaughters choice) with a small road so far. No pics yet. I am currently technologically challenged. (ha-ha). No landscape yet either. Just trying to get track work right. I enjoyed the layout photos. Thanks for more ideas. JTW-BNSF


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## Old Dude

*Nice*

Oh yes. Take photos! A double crossover! Insanely jealous. Hopefully I'll be able to include one. Been building models for 50 years and never had something like that. That is one of th many reasons that I am descending to N scale. I have reversed my decision to go Traction. Gonna stick with what I know. Just make it more intricate. And I think I am going to go back to Kato. My sone has all my former Kato stuff in N...need to find a needy person for my HO stuff. No local club, can't even give it away! Shame. 

Dave


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## JTW-BNSF

*Kato works well.*

Dear Old Dude,
Since I am new to this kind of interacting and to forums, I never know whether to use the log-in name or somebody's real name. I'll just go with old dude for now. I am not very young myself anymore! I went with Kato on this first layout and even though I had a little problem with getting both ovals to fit, it worked out well. Kato seems somewhat forgiving as far as working with it. Good thing, because I only had a vague idea of what I wanted to do when I started. As I have continued it seems as though more ideas are taking shape. I am quite sure that I can learn a lot from all of you, especially those of you who have been modeling for so long. If you get a chance, please let me know what you do for keeping rolling stock coupled together without problems. Currently I am having to keep certain cars in a certain order to keep them from uncoupling. Thanks, have a great day- JTW-BNSF.


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## wrainey

Check out DCC if you can.


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## wrainey

*Is DCC worth it on a small layout?*

I know on most larger layouts, there is DCC or block control. Is DCC worth it, or is it not practical? The cost seems pretty high.


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## Florida RR

wrainey said:


> I know on most larger layouts, there is DCC or block control. Is DCC worth it, or is it not practical? The cost seems pretty high.


DCC is not worth it for me, but others undoubtedly would want it, even on a small layout. I'm building a coffee table layout with two continuously running trains on separate tracks. I don't need DCC for that. The only reason I really considered DCC was for running multiple locomotives at the head of a train. Just using two (identical) DC locomotives that run at the same speed seems to work fine. Sound control was another thing that I considered, but I decided that sound is something that I can completely live without. 

-Florida RR-


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## JTW-BNSF

*Dcc for small layout.*

Dear wrainey,
I have hooked up A Digitrax Zephyr to my layout. I also have two Athearn F-45 Locos with tsunami sound decoders in them. I enjoy dcc, but can see where regular dc would be good too. I began reading about all the decoder options, wow! I am amazed at all the options available thru the decoder. I am sure that I will never use all these options, but it is nice to have them available. Sometimes simple can be best I have found. Dcc has a lot to it, but as I have already said I enjoy it so far. I think that a regular dc layout will also have its advantages, especially in loco availability. I know that there is a big price difference in the two. So I guess it depends on what works best for the individual. If I do not write for a little while- have a good holiday to all.


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## Big Ed

This is a small *34 1/2" x 48" *N scale setup. (All the buildings were placed for the shot in 5 mins. Nothing permanent on this layout.)


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## Cycleops

JTW-BNSF There are quite a few advantages to DCC as you've discovered. I think people that have been in the hobby a long time are unwilling to change due to their investment in their current setup but newcomers will certainly embrace it and more so younger people which will keep model railroading alive. As for cost its not that much more, a controller is maybe three times the price and locos are just about $20 more.


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## JTW-BNSF

*Thanks for the video.*

Dear Big Ed and Cycleops,
I liked the video and would like to be able at some point to have some scenery like the tunnel that you have. I currently have no scenery. I was waiting until I decided that the track work was pretty well done. The DCC understanding that I have now is limited because of my limited experience, but with time I think that certain ideas will become more clear. I am going to run my small HO layout over the holiday. Thanks again for all of your input and ideas and I will write again soon. Have a great holiday- JTW-BNSF.


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## wrainey

Will Bachmann power pack hook up to Kato Unitrack? I know that Kato makes great track unlike Bachmann, but like the price and portability of Bachmann power packs. Kato also makes power packs, but they're a little more expensive. Which should I choose?


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## wrainey

Nice Video!!


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## Big Ed

This is how it looked when my big Sis gave it to me.
She had a town there. Well, when she had it it looked better. This was after I moved it, she had a few more things on it.










You can read all about my N scale here if you want.
Ed's N scale.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7158


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## JTW-BNSF

*Bachmann power.*

Dear wrainey,
I do not know whether or not the Bachmann power pack will hook-up. I would think that it would, But I do not know for sure. My experience has been that Kato products seem to be somewhat superior to a lot of others. However, it is a little more expensive. Kato works great on my layout, But I switched over to Digitrax for the DCC end of it. I bet if you asked Big Ed or some of the others they would know for sure. I also have a question to throw out. Can I take my Kato power pack and use it now only for switches and possibly some lighting? Just wondering. Also my little HO layout still works. Thanks, JTW-BNSF.hwell:


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## Florida RR

wrainey said:


> Will Bachmann power pack hook up to Kato Unitrack? I know that Kato makes great track unlike Bachmann, but like the price and portability of Bachmann power packs. Kato also makes power packs, but they're a little more expensive. Which should I choose?


Unless you really can't tolerate the size, the best bet for DC would be an old MRC Tech II from FeeBay. I had mine for many years and only recently went to a Tech 7 because I wanted a space saving dual. I researched Kato a few weeks ago, considering buying a pair and there was no comparison of them to the MRC packs. MRC won hands down.

-Florida RR-


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## Big Ed

JTW-BNSF said:


> Dear wrainey,
> I do not know whether or not the Bachmann power pack will hook-up. I would think that it would, But I do not know for sure. My experience has been that Kato products seem to be somewhat superior to a lot of others. However, it is a little more expensive. Kato works great on my layout, But I switched over to Digitrax for the DCC end of it. I bet if you asked Big Ed or some of the others they would know for sure. I also have a question to throw out. Can I take my Kato power pack and use it now only for switches and possibly some lighting? Just wondering. Also my little HO layout still works. Thanks, JTW-BNSF.hwell:


I don't really know what the best out there today.

On my little N layout, if you look at picture on the left is an old Powermaster model 200, I only found one on the internet. That has to go back in time, early 70's or even 60's?
A classic.

The one on the right just says Hobby transformer HO scale. model 6607. I think it is a Bachmann, a cheap one at that. But it works.

They work OK on my little N table but if I ever expand to a larger table I would have to search for a better power supply.


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## wrainey

Thanks. I have decided on Kato.


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## wrainey

*Micro, Or Just Small?*

Right Now I am considering building a small 1*2 foot layout, but have recently discovered the Micro layouts. I thought these were perfect, since I live in a small space. I was Just wondering, Is there issues with reliability? I know that those micro layouts have tight radius curves. Is that hard on the Locos?:dunno:


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## Florida RR

When I was a kid, a LHS had an N scale layout that consisted of a silver dollar and a single rail. It had a 0-4-0 steam locomotive running on it. It was awesome.

Yes, the tighter radius can be hard on a locomotive when the rails pinch inwards on the wheel flanges rounding the curve. For example, my 6 axle SD-35's slow down a bit on the 10" curves on my test track. As the trucks angle inward the gears suffer more frictional loss and the outer two wheels on each truck rub the insides of the rails more. That doesn't stop me from running them. Choose the right locomotive and you can go all the way down to the size of a silver dollar.

-Florida RR-


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## Fire21

Florida RR said:


> When I was a kid, a LHS had an N scale layout that consisted of a silver dollar and a single rail. It had a 0-4-0 steam locomotive running on it. It was awesome.
> Choose the right locomotive and you can go all the way down to the size of a silver dollar.
> 
> -Florida RR-


Do you think the millennials and newer know what a silver dollar is? :laugh:


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## Florida RR

Fire21 said:


> Do you think the millennials and newer know what a silver dollar is? :laugh:


Only if their parents collect coins I guess. :dunno:

I really would love to build one of those silver dollar layouts one day. A similar one is Silver Dollar Tramway (near bottom of page). With the N scale 0-4-0 the center silver dollar didn't need to rotate. No need.

-Florida RR-


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## Fire21

Wow, that's an amazing "layout"! There's no end to the ingenuity of the human mind!!


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## Cycleops

Fire21 said:


> Wow, that's an amazing "layout"! There's no end to the ingenuity of the human mind!!


Never mind the ingenuity of the railway modellers mind!


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## JTW-BNSF

I was wondering, what kind of couplers are the most reliable? JTW-BNSF.


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## wrainey

*Are Lego Trains Cool?*

Hey everyone, haven't really had a chance to get on here very often since Christmas because I've had a bunch of stuff going on. Anyway, I received a Lego train set from some family and one of the questions I had was this: Since I have recently created a layout on the the floor with quick scenery techniques, Am I still classified as a model railroader or someone wishing he was one ? 

Thanks,
wrainey


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## Cycleops

I guess that's one you will have to answer yourself.


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