# "Pizza box" layouts anyone?



## Never Get Old

Is anyone here working on or considering starting a "pizza box" layout in N scale? After seeing a few YouTube videos of what people can do in a 10 - 12" space, I think I want to try one.

This guy did an awesome job! Watch this video: 




He used Kato Unitrack with a 4.6" radius, and he did the whole layout in just 8.5 x 11.5" which is amazing. The Kato track with that radius is available on ebay, shipped from Japan.

I guess carendt is the king of micro layout sites. http://www.carendt.com/

The web site says that Carl Arendt passed away in 2011, but the web site lives on.

Tonight I bent a piece of Atlas code 80 flex track into a 5 inch radius 180 degree turn, and to my surprise, an Atlas MP15DC seems to negotiate the curve just fine, along with a 40' box car. This is a good start already. Then I got out a tiny Peco code 80 set track turnout, and I think I might actually be able to get an oval and a spur track into 11 x 17" with room to spare. I'm not sure I want to try anything smaller for my first try at it. My layout would be large compared to the one above I guess, but 11 x 17 is small enough to display almost anywhere. I have Peco flex track and a turnout sitting here, so I think I'll give it a shot. This could be a whole lot of fun. 

Remember: Never Get Old


----------



## Cycleops

That's a fantastic layout and detailed to a very high standard. I'm also a big fan of Carl's site and am currently building one of his shelf layouts.

By all means give it a try, it will help you hone your skills.


----------



## Gramps

That's very cool, thanks for posting and the link. I guess you have to think outside the box to get into the box.


----------



## Big Ed

How about just a bit larger?
And you can carry it easy.

How about a suitcase layout?

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10384&highlight=suitcase+layout

Google it there is more.


----------



## RonthePirate

I seem to recall ShayGetz has a layout in his desk drawer.


----------



## Never Get Old

As much as I like the idea of putting a micro layout inside something like a suitcase or a briefcase or something similar, I don't want to go looking for a suitable container. Online I have seen pizza boxes, cigar boxes, drawers, briefcases, chocolate boxes, various cardboard boxes, and a wooden cheese box. I'll keep an eye out for something for future use, but that could take days or weeks and I need something to keep myself busy while my two major projects are at a complete standstill and will be for a while. I'll be using whatever I already have on hand and/or can get inexpensively nearby. I already have Peco flex track and a turnout. A 40% off coupon for a local craft shop yielded a piece of 1/2" foam core board for $4.00. I already have an Atlas MP15DC that seems to handle the tight radius OK in the test run that I did yesterday. So, for the cost of roughly $4.00 we are off to a fair start.

I began by gluing a razor blade to a piece of scrap lumber to make a right angle cutter for the foam board. If you ever do this, please be careful with the tool that you create. Keep the blade covered by sticking it in a piece of foam board at all times as a safety guard. I have used this trick a few times when cutting foam insulation sheets and foam board. The wood block keeps the cut perfectly perpendicular and also allows you to run it along a straight edge to get perfectly straight lines. After a few minutes, I had two layers of foam board glued into a 1" thick base for the layout. Spray contact adhesive provides an instant grab, and a few beads of white glue add additional strength. Weight it heavily with books and let it sit overnight. Clean up the edges with a sanding block and 60 grit sandpaper, which works great.

I decided on 11x17" because it just seemed to work well for me. It's small enough to display almost anywhere. It allows a 5" radius that I am fairly sure will work. It allows about a 7" spur track. This could easily be shortened to 11x15" but then the spur track gets shorter and shorter, and I sort of like having a little straight section where I can add a road coming in. A grade crossing with a flashing crossbuck will add a lot of interest.

Next I made compass using a thumb tack and a piece of cardboard to draw the 5" radius curves. I set the Peco turnout in place to make sure it will fit. So far, so good.

I know that foam core board isn't the "best" option for a base, but it's what I could get quickly and cheaply. It's also incredibly easy to work with. I wouldn't use it for a big layout, but for 11x17 inches I think it will be fine. I'll seal the paper faces with sanding sealer and give them a coat of green spray paint. That will permanently seal the paper and the sanding sealer will make it as hard as a rock. Ideally, I think 1" GatorFoam would be perfect, but I don't have any. That stuff is expensive too. I think this will be fine. I have scraps of 3/4" blue foam sheet styrofoam insulation that I can use to sculpt whatever terrain I decide to have. I guess to add some interest I'll put a deep cut or a tunnel in the back corner so the train seems to disappear briefly on each run around the layout.

The next step is to apply sanding sealer to the paper surface. Stinky stuff. Next it's roadbed. I have some cork scraps that should work fine. I'll have to be careful bending them to 5 inch radius. I think some soaking will be required. Not bad for only 24 hours after deciding to try this. Right now I am still at the moment of doubt "Is this really going to work" stage. I'll feel better once I see a locomotive actually run on it. I don't look forward to laying this track in a 5" radius though. It's going to have to be absolutely perfect in order to be reliable. Peco code 80 is the weapon of choice because it's what I happen to have and it is durable. The Kato Unitrack that is available in this radius would be great, but I would have to order it direct from Japan and wait. I'll use what I have for this attempt. If it doesn't work out, I'll consider ordering the Kato track.

Picture attached.


----------



## Cycleops

Looks good so far. The problem you'll have is not with the loco but the wagons on that radius. Don't forget on that video he was using short four wheel ones. You need to check yours won't be pulling each other off by the couplers.

BTW I wouldn't advise anyone to make a razor blade cutter like that unless you've got a spare pint of blood and a needle and thread handy.

Good luck.


----------



## Cycleops

If you went a little bit larger you could do this:


----------



## Never Get Old

Yes, the razor blade cutter needs to be treated like a loaded gun or a running table saw with no guard on it. Always press it into foam block to keep the blade covered, and if it's going to be used more than once, paint it red. It hurts just looking at it. However, it cuts foam like a beauty. When I make one of these tools, I do the foam cuts that I need and then I immediately remove the razor blade and dispose of it.

Sunday was a good day for working on the railroad. I put sanding sealer on both sides of the foam board. New sanding sealer isn't nearly as stinky as the old stuff I was happy to find. After it dried for an hour or so I went over it with green spray paint to further seal it and make the color easier to hide with ground cover later.

I'm not sure why I felt compelled to put down roadbed, but I did. I cut my own cork from sheets. I have been doing it that way for a long time because I never have been happy with the width of the commercially available stuff. This is also thinner, which makes it much harder to work with due to breakage. I cut it narrower than usual due to the limited space on this project. I don't need to simulate a well maintained heavy main line with a large and wide well-groomed ballast anyway. I started painting cork a ballast color a long time ago because it looks better until I get around to ballasting it later (often much later) and it helps hide any spots where my ballast doesn't stick.

I need to find a jack of some sort that I can mount on the rear fascia to accept a plug that will come from the DC throttle. I want to just plug the wires in for portability and not have to mess with the screw terminals on the throttle. For now I'll just run the wires out the back.

In this picture I put a pencil down for perspective. 11 x 17 inches is a nice size. The siding is just long enough to be usable. Next step: track. I don't look forward to bending 5" radius curves. I'll bet I have to try at least twice to get it right. Peco flex track holds its shape a little when bent, but not this tight.

EDIT: Does anyone have a source for a tiny throttle or throttle kit that I could somehow bury in the 1" thickness of this layout? I see some micro layouts that just have a knob on the front or side, and I gues they buried the electronics inside the layout. This fellow made a whole throttle and stuck it in the corner of a layout that he built on the back of a picture frame:

































I can solder, and I understand just enough about electronics to build but not design something. Something pre-made or a kit rather than just a circuit schematic would be ideal. Since the layout is so small, I think something with excellent slow speed performance and very fine speed control would be best.


----------



## Never Get Old

Sigh ... laying flex track with a 5 inch radius turned out to be much, much more difficult than I expected. I am used to putting down some caulk and laying down a nice, gentle curve of say, 12 inches. The Peco flex track became almost unmanageable using the normal approach. There is so much pressure on the joint on the left side where the curve joins the turnout (see picture) that it won't last. It will deform over time. That's the bad news. 

The good news is that I do have a smooth running micro layout for now! A switching engine and 40 foot box cars will run on a 5 inch radius. None of my other 4 axle diesels will handle the curves, but the Atlas MP15DC does fine. I don't think it could handle the smaller 4.6" radius Kato track because the trucks are at about their maximum turning angle, but it does fine on 5 inch radius. I assume that if an Atlas MP15DC can handle the radius that a Kato yard switcher would too. A steam loco with 0-4-0 would be great I am sure, but I'm sticking with diesel power. I never got into steam really. I'm not sure why.

So I have two choices after this successful test. I can get some 6" radius Kato Unitrack and upsize the layout by an inch, or I can figure out a way to lay flex track more permanently in this tight radius. I am leaning toward one more try with flex track. My idea is to epoxy a few copper circuit board ties directly onto a piece of GatorFoam to support the joints and hold the curves more permanently. If I remove a tie from the flex track every few inches, especially at the rail joints, I can then solder the flex track onto these ties. That should be a pretty permanent way to keep it from ever kinking at the joints due to the springiness of the rail. Once it is soldered I think I probably would just flow thin CA glue all underneath it all the way around except for the turnout. The combination of soldered ties, CA glue, and ballast should produce track that will last a long time.  

Now I know that a lot of you are thinking - if you go to that length why not just hand lay the rail? That's a good question. I do want to use a Peco Setrack turnout though. I guess I could hand lay the rest. The track length is only about 40 inches. I haven't ever hand laid any track. It's intimidating. I don't even know where to get circuit board ties. Google I suppose. My approach of just soldering the flex track to a few ties near the joints and in 1-2 places on the curves just sounds easier than doing it all by hand.

Sizing up to 6 inch radius Unitrack sounds so much easier, but I really don't think I want to upsize the baseboard by an inch. The novelty starts to wear off for me at that point.

In any case, I think I may look around for a briefcase or something to put this in when I come up with a more permanent approach to the track. An 11 x 17" wood box with a lid would be ideal, but I don't know where to find such a thing.

I would love to find something like this with an 11" internal width:


----------



## Never Get Old

I think I'll look around for an old, slightly beat up briefcase. They seem to be about the right size - 18 x 12 x 4 or close to that. Railroads are mostly rugged and dirty things so I don't want to work with a brand new briefcase. I'll get an old one that looks rugged and worn.

I thought I might have found an ideal power supply but I was wrong. I don't understand why though. I have an LED strip power supply with a dimmer. The power adapter puts out 12 volts (of what I thought was DC) up to 2 amps. The inline rotary dimmer has a click for "off" and then is infinitely variable after that. I figured that it would put out DC but apparently it does not. When I hooked it up to the track, the loco ran backwards. So, I reversed the wires to the track. It still runs backwards!  I'm no electrical genius, but when I reverse DC wires I expect a loco to go the other direction. Also, as soon as the switch clicks on, the locomotive starts to make a whining sound that remains whether it is sitting still or is running. Strange. Very strange. 

I like the idea of a "wall wart" DC supply feeding through an inline rotary dimmer switch to the track. I'd like to do something like that, but this LED power supply has me baffled.


----------



## Never Get Old

Never Get Old said:


> ... this LED power supply has me baffled.


I still have not figured this one out.

I picked up an old, slightly worn briefcase to build in.

Question: I am considering using Kato UniTrack to make my life a bit easier. The springiness of the Peco flex track made the extremely tight radius curves very difficult in my experiment. I have never used Kato Unitrack before or even held a piece of it. It seems to have a good reputation. For a permanent installation, would I want to solder it together? I assume it has joiners on it that can be soldered? I like the infinite flexibility of flex track, but the UniTrack just sounds so much easier.


----------



## Cycleops

Unitrack clicks together so no soldering required.


----------



## Never Get Old

In the pictures I saw of UniTrack there seemed to be tabs that interlock, but I'm not sure I trust the joiners to maintain perfect electrical contact over the years. Maybe I am just paranoid. It seems like soldering the joiners would be a good idea so long as nothing gets melted. Looking around online, Kato's main Japanese competitor - Tomix - has a 140mm radius curve and turnouts that might work better for my space. Or, I may stick with Peco flex, as hard as it was to bend.

The "home" for the micro layout arrived today. I love it. It is a slightly beat up but still good condition Samsonite briefcase. The hinges are strong and the hinges and latches work. A few minutes with a razor blade removed the old pockets and dividers that were inside. I don't know if I can have a key made for it or not, but that would be great. It gives me three extra inches of width to play with. The new baseboard will be 14 x 17 inches, with a usable area of 13.5 x 16.5 inches. This could be a lot of fun.

2 pics attached.


----------



## wrainey

If you google N scale micro layout, a nice example pops up. The video is by Steve's Trains.


----------



## dualgauge

Don Kriegbaum with the Dayton N-Track club has built several small layouts . Some are on you tube under Dayton N-Track. One that is not on this video was built in a cake box.
Dan


----------

