# Rivarossi Big Boy DCC Wiring



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey Guys,

I just acquired a Rivarossi 4-8-8-4 #5439 Big Boy. I have removed the shell and tested the motor. It runs fine. And it appears to be isolated from the frame. The guy I got it from, who has since passed away, told me he had installed a DCC decoder in the engine. I find no indication of that, except that the wires from the pick-ups are not connected to the motor. He told me that it had run for a short time, then got hot and quit. Must have burned up the decoder and removed it. Only speculation. 

So, my question is what decoder would you recommend I try to wire in? There is a headlight. Just need DCC motor, no sound. It looks like there is room for a small decoder in front of the cab. I am not sure I am up to wiring it for sound and putting it in the tender. For now will take the easy way out. I have installed decoders in other engines in the past.

Thanks for any help. 

Ted


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There's some things to check before installing a new
decoder.

First, since you know 'it got hot', check to see that the
gearing and drives are free rolling.

Then make a temporary connection from pickup wires
to motor. Use your multimeter set to AMPS in series
with one wire from a DC source to the track. Check
the running amps, should be no more than .5, preferably
less. Then do the stall test...press down on the loco
while holding it to the point the motor stalls. Note the
amp reading. It should be less than an amp.
If, however, you get higher amp readings the motor
may need replacement.

If it all looks good then look for a decoder with a 
rating of 1.5 amps. Most decoders today
are so rated.

Don


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Don,

Thanks for the advice. From all indications the motor is running very smoothly, and the amperage is very low.

I am in conversation with Rivarossi technical support. They have given me the information I need to add sound, rather than simply motor control. Everything is mounted under the loco shell instead of in the tender. I am excited about getting this "Big Boy" back on the tracks. 

I had been told that it will run on 18" curves, which is what I have on my layout. I placed it on the tracks last evening and pushed it through a curve. Seemed to take the curve just fine. Now to see what it will do under power.

Will keep you updated as to my progress. 

Take care.

Ted


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey Don,

Happy to announce I have completed the DCC conversion of my Big Boy.

I installed a Soundtraxx Econami decoder. I have been impressed with all the functions of that decoder. The decoder installation went pretty smooth, with a little help from Hornby/Rivarossi with the placement of the components. My particular unit was built before Hornby acquired Rivarossi.

The only component in the tender is the rear LED. The tender is a one piece unit, with only the end caps removable. Actually, putting everything in the loco wasn't that big a deal. One problem I did have when I was done, was the fact that the volume was really low, even with the master volume cranked up. Discovered I needed a baffle, something I have never had to work with. I installed the speaker right below the two stacks on top. Wow, once I installed the speaker with the scratch built baffle, the sound came alive.

Next up is to paint the front of the boiler gray, and add some other detail painting. One thing I would like to add is some figurines in the cab, engineer, fireman and a couple of seats. Any ideas where I might go to find them?

Thanks for the conversation and will send a pic when I am complete.

Ted


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

tmiller said:


> I would like to add is some figurines in the cab, engineer, fireman and a couple of seats. Any ideas where I might go to find them?


Woodland Scenics WOOA1866 is a set of engineers, etc. Some are seated. You could make your own seats out of sheet styrene.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Ted

Ain't it nice to do something and have it come out
right. Nothing like seeking advice from the folks
who made the product.

Another happy ending.

Don


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

I always like the challenge. Not my first decoder installation, but by far the most challenging. Really learned something about the need for baffles. Never thought they meant that much.

My friend at Hornby was a great help in component placement. I met him at the National Train Show in Cleveland a few years ago. Very nice to work with. 

So, taking the shell off tonight and start painting the boiler, and then some painting on some other areas. Having a ball.

I think it will run on my 18" curves. It has taken a couple of tem so I think it will work. One problem I see is clearance around some hillsides. It was kinda tight for some of my other locos, but this time I may have to do some actual trimming of rocks. 

The other thing I see as a problem is the rear truck derailing. I don't think it is a truck issue as much as it is an issue with the connecting wire between the loco and the tender. That will take some studying and simply moving it around. More fun.

Ok, off to the paint booth. Oh, I will check out Woodland Scenics for the figurines. That is a "Duh" on my part. Thanks.

Will be back at you soon.

Ted


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Hi Don,

BIg Boy is running on straight track. Still have yet to run it around the layout, checking for clearance issues.

Now, I do have a question. The Soundtraxx Eco-100 comes with a 220µF capacitor, to maintain the current over dirty track, etc. On my straight piece of track, it is still stop and go, as if the track was dirty, and it may well be. I know I need to clean the track. But even with the dirty track, shouldn't that capacitor keep the loco running? To the best of my knowledge, the cap is wired correctly. So, is it not heavy enough to carry the loco over some bad track. Maybe I need to look into Soundtraxx Current Keeper? Have used them before in my Soundcar installations. 

Your thoughts.

Ted


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have 9 DCC locos. None have the 'stay alive'
capacitor and none have flickering lights, pausing
or stopping at any place around my layout.

Yes, I'm afraid you have a problem with rails and wheels
that need cleaning. Even a cap in the circuit can't overcome heavy loss of electrical continuity.

It's also important to make sure the power pickup
wipers and their wires are making proper contact
with the wheels and no wires have broken.

Don


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Well that cap might only keep the sound part alive or it might only be use to remove the DC content of the amplifier from getting to the speaker, so It might not be a keep alive cap, if so it will be in series with the speaker if its a blocking cap.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Congrats on getting DCC in your big boy. I have 3 rivarossi big boys. 2 of them
I need to add DCC to. One is a new from 2016 and it has DCC and sound, all in
the boiler. I have 4005, 4007, and 4014. Give me a hint how to get the end of tender apart. I have run mine on old layout which is 18". LOL, they swing out some on a curve.

I want to paint the front of my boiler also. Its 4005 and I got a real photo of 4005 and the front of boiler is gray.
I got the 5X7 glossy from one of the forum members here. He had a few photos of big boys and one happened to be
4005.

A baffle or an enclosure makes a big difference.


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey Guys,

The only Keep Alive Caps are used in my SoundCar units. None of my engines have them, and for the most part run steady. I did clean the pick-up wheels before I reassembled. As for the pick-up wires, that is another issue. If I continue to have problems after cleaning the track, I will dig into the trucks. There are only 20 pick-up wheels per side. A guy on YouTube rewired his to fit everything in the tender, along with the the pick-up wheels. He said it ran better, probably with the increased number of wheels. 

Will have to hold off on track cleaning till after I get back from vacation the middle of October. 

Thanks for you comments and suggestions. Will update you in a few weeks.

Take care.

Ted


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Update:

Still having problems with stop n go. Just added a Current Keeper from Soundtraxx. Runs fine, but is still stop n go at times. I am only running it now on a 4ft section of track, until it runs smoothly and I can try and navigate the entire layout. 

I have cleaned the track very well, and it is nice and shiny. Seems to stop in the turnout areas, 2 of which it is crossing. So I am thinking that I need to add more pick-up wheels. 2 per rail is simply not enough.

I am looking at adding the pick-ups to some of the wheels in the tender. I have some ideas as to how to make this work. My question now is what size are the wheels on the tender? The ones I have are plastic and I will need metal wheel sets. The wheels are not standard size, being larger than a 36" wheel. The wheels measure .564" in size. Is this like a 38" wheel?

Has anyone added the wheel pick-ups to this tender. Would like some input if possible.

Thanks. 

Ted


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You can use the Kadee #5 brass spring box to
enable tender wheel power pickup. The 'springs'
rub against the back of the wheels. When you
determine the wheel size order smooth back. You'll
want at least 4 wheels of each truck picking up power.

Don


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey Don,

Do you have an email that I could talk to you direct? Rivarossi has all the wheels I need. I have seen the brass spring boxes being used. But in looking at the wheels, and how they fit in, I am not sure how the brass spring boxes would work. I have some photos of the wheel configuration that I would like you to take a look at and give me your opinion as to how I may proceed.

Thanks.

Ted


----------



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

*Big Boy DCC Conversion*

Hey Guys,

Happy to announce that the conversion is complete. I am *very happy* with the outcome. And the cool thing is that it navigates my 18" curves with no problem. 

Here are some comments on how I made it happen.

I decided to use the SoundTraxx Economi decoder EC-100. Great price, plenty of features, and small enough to fit under the shell. I placed it under the cab. There is ample room for the decoder and wiring. Let me add that the decoder and all the wheel pick-ups are in the locomotive and not the tender. The only wiring between the two units is the rear light. Rivarossi does it this way. It may have to do with the configuration of the wheels on the tender. They simply will not accept, or at least from what I have seen, any wheel pick-ups. Actually it is much easier to have everything in the loco. 

Since this is an older locomotive, maybe the 60 or 70's, it was made for DC, thus it only had 2 wheel pick-ups per side. This did not work for DCC. So, I purchased two trucks from Rivarossi, the new style, which have all wheel pick-up. So now I have 8 wheels per rail. Th trucks are a direct replacement of the old ones. I did experience some issues with the metal wheel wipes not making contact with the back of the wheels. I finally was able to remove the plate over the wheels, expose the wipes, and bend them accordingly. Oh, and the new front truck now has traction tires. 

As for the SoundTraxx speaker, I placed it under the smoke stack. I built a small baffle, and it has great sound.

I replaced the front and rear lights with 3mm warm white LED's. They both put out a nice bright light.

This was an interesting conversion. It had its challenges at times, but some patience and advice from Rivarossi and others on this forum, helped me over those hurdles. Rivarossi was most helpful and their pricing on their parts was fantastic. So much for a few dollars. 

That should about do it for this thread. If anyone is considering such a conversion, I would be happy to offer any help I can.

Thanks to all the replies and advice. This is a great forum.

Ted


----------



## Tom_G93 (Dec 7, 2020)

tmiller said:


> *Big Boy DCC Conversion*
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> ...


Same would work for an old AHM - Riv Challenger and/or Redbox Riv Challengers?
I have one AHM-Riv and 4 redboxes I’m looking to convert to DCC


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

Tom_G93 said:


> Same would work for an old AHM - Riv Challenger and/or Redbox Riv Challengers?
> I have one AHM-Riv and 4 redboxes I’m looking to convert to DCC


* yes it will work with both *


----------

