# Just where exactly do I begin?



## Bigfoot21075 (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi Everyone,

I have 2 finalized layouts I am choosing from that I built in SCARM using all Kato N Scale Track. I have gotten GREAT feedback on them. I know my next step is to build my table. I am going to make the track height generally drafting stool eye height as that is how I plan to run it. 

After I build my table from the wood I already have, I plan to put a base layer of that foam stuff like you would put on a house (uncoated Styrene I think?). Then I am going to laydown another piece of that same foam to raise the rest my layout to represent the height I want for most of it. JUST as a visual aid, I have attached one of my 2 contenders. The area on the diagram with the staging lanes and round house will be 1" below the rest of the lay out.

So I will have a board with 2 levels on it. I know I will need to carve a roadway for my yard track to rise to the next level, but then what? I assume I lay my track, using temporary supports to get the heights I need and then run it all and make sure it works. I was thinking about using Woodland Scenics track risers and incline sets where track will be above board, but I am not sure what comes after setting up my working layout.

Sorry for such a ridiculously easy question, but I have found everything but that on the web. I even watched a how to build the Woodland Scenics Grand Valley layout back when I was toying with building that. But it is very different from the laying track on board method I am planning on using now.

thanks Everyone!

Rob


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Looks like a layout that would be fun to work on.

A couple of comments, though.

1. That reverse loop radius looks pretty tight...are you sure
your locos can get around it.

2. You are going to need long wires from your turnout motors
to the turnout points...might want to consider the thickness
of your layout base. You may have too much foam.

Don


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## Bigfoot21075 (Aug 7, 2021)

DonR said:


> Looks like a layout that would be fun to work on.
> 
> A couple of comments, though.
> 
> ...


 Do you are 100% correct. That is too tight. I have learned a lot since then I am going to skip it all together since i have a turn table. Kato Turnouts are all self contained so all there is to run are power wires. That is one big reason I am going with them. I have attached a revision. Funny this was my pie in the sky layout when I first started with SCARM, and I abandoned it. Now I think I may actually be able to make it work and look good with hiding tracks in canyons and such.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Start with the base first. 
You have the wood. 
Start sawing and banging away, and post pictures along the way,  
You got to start somewhere.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, there really isn't a wrong way to do it, within reason (obviously, you can't lay track before you build benchwork).

So do I understand correctly that you will have track on 3 levels: yard, TT, etc, at elevation=0". "Lower" track at elevation=1", and "Upper" track at elevation = 2"? First of all, check the clearance required, because I think N needs about 1-1/2" vertical clearance to cross. Not a problem for the yard area, but the other tracks will need that.

Here is what I would do. Build your benchwork, and make sure there is a joist between the two levels. Use a 1" sheet of foam (extruded polystyrene insulation board is what it's called, btw) for the yard and TT area, and a 2" thick piece for the rest. Use either WS risers or more 2" foam, glued on top of the 2" piece, to lay the subroadbed for your upper track. Lay your track, test it, and glue it down. THEN work on the scenery. Build up your higher elevations using foam scraps, wedding cake fashion. Then use a rasp to carve this into its final shape. Make sure you have enough horizontal clearance for your trains. I cover my terrain with about 1/4" of Sculptamold, which I paint reddish brown.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

Most people think it's a waste but I've lived through it. I would suggest building it as two module in case the worst case happens and you have to move. With the size you are going with you can split it and fairly easily move it. My last layout I didn't do it as modules. After 20 years of marriage we split and I lost the house. By the time my layout was moved it looked like it was moved by a tornado and shoved in the garage by a hurricane. Total lose include a bunch of track. If it was me I'd split it where one side was the 62" and the other was the 52".


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## Bigfoot21075 (Aug 7, 2021)

I guess the simplified version of my question is after I have my table built and foam down. I assume I lay my track out and get it working. Now I have a table with a working track layout. What do I do next?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Once the track is down and tested with any errors corrected, and all of your electrical is wired, start on scenery.

These four are what I consider the four major layout building steps.

Benchwork
Track
Electrical
Scenery


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## Bigfoot21075 (Aug 7, 2021)

So do I glue the track down to the untouched foam layer and just work around it or is it better to paint the surface or something first?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Don't know. I use plywood and my construction technique is much different than what has been suggested.

I painted the sub-roadbed after the track and roadbed was laid.


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## Bigfoot21075 (Aug 7, 2021)

Just for others with the same question, I ran across this;


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That is only one of many construction methods.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

You wouldn't find double crossovers used on yard tracks (as you have towards the lower right). The one on the lower two tracks is "too far back" to be really useful, anyway. You can't run around a full-sized train with it.

One single crossover, fine. You just need this on one pair of tracks.
These become an "inbound" track and "a runaround" or escape track.
I think you could use at least one more yard track, perhaps two. No crossovers on those.

Actually, you don't need the double crossovers elsewhere, either.

You need a SINGLE crossover where the yard lead joins the main in the upper left, so trains in/out of the yard can access BOTH mains.

Drop down to the "inner double main and your coal mine. I would relocate the switch to the mine more "to the right", and have a single short crossover to the left of the mine lead, so trains could access the mine from EITHER main track.

Coal mine needs more than one track.
Perhaps one or two "storage tracks", one for empties in, the other for loads waiting to go out.

Keep in mind that on American railroads, particularly in the days of steam, that where there was double track, trains generally "kept to the right". That's because the lion's share of automatic block systems in those days were "251 territory". This meant they were signaled in only one direction.

This is less important if you're modelling today with modern signaling and "rule 261". Trains run in either direction as tracks are now signaled in BOTH directions.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I would suggest painting the foam first. Use a cheap latex house paint, in tan or brown.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bigfoot21075 said:


> So do I glue the track down to the untouched foam layer and just work around it or is it better to paint the surface or something first?


Yes.

As I said in my earlier post, it doesn't matter. There is no right or wrong way to do it. I suggested some follow-on steps there as well (how to build up your scenery).

The problem is that by asking the question, you're looking to be told how to do it and gain some clarity. What's really going to happen is that you will get as many different ideas (all of them perfectly valid) as there are respondants, and you will be just as confused about how to proceed as you are now,

So here's how you proceed: do something. If it works, keep doing it. If not, try something else until you find what works best for you.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Bigfoot21075 said:


> Just for others with the same question, I ran across this;


Bigfoot;

While the benchwork shown in the video will work, I don't care for the permanently fastened crosspieces. There are several better ways to make benchwork. You might look for the book "Model Railroad Benchwork" by Linn Wescott online. Its an older, but excellent, way to build benchwork with crosspieces that can be moved. This is important since no matter how carefully you plan things, one or more of those rigid crosspieces may end up in your way. If that doesn't happen now, it likely will, down the road, when you decide to add some below track level feature. Wescott built a long layout and used pretty heavy 1x4 & 1x3 L-girders as his main supports. I would use smaller, & lighter lumber. Since you plan to have foam on top of your table, the ("Oh $%#^&[email protected] this *&^%$ crosspiece, is right in the middle of my lake!) scenario is less likely, so maybe you prefer to follow the video. 

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Bigfoot21075 (Aug 7, 2021)

J.Albert1949 said:


> You wouldn't find double crossovers used on yard tracks (as you have towards the lower right). The one on the lower two tracks is "too far back" to be really useful, anyway. You can't run around a full-sized train with it.
> 
> One single crossover, fine. You just need this on one pair of tracks.
> These become an "inbound" track and "a runaround" or escape track.
> ...


Actually that double crossover at the end of the yard line is an escape for an engine pulling a line of cars. It is strictly for convenience. GREAT IDEA on the mine entrance and tracks I will do that. THANKS!


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Quite often short stub tracks for storing a utility locomotive for yard work is included in many small yards overseas. It greatly helps pushing a consist into a track when the locomotive must get off that dead-end track to go somewhere else and there is no run-around.


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