# Revitalizing old locos



## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

Now that my son is of age I've been dying to dig out my old HO set. I've learned a ton on the Lionel forum about restoring my father in laws post war set. I have the confidence to now tackle the HOs. I've heard they can be more tricky to repair.

Anyway, I have a bunch of diesel locomotives from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, none of which worked. Actuallymthey had trouble working when I was a kid too but didn't have the ability to fix them.

So I opened one up and it doesn't look too complicated. I have a couple of Bachman deisel locks and a couple tyco ones.

Are these able to be repaired by me? Are parts readily available? Whats the best way to go about troubleshooting?

At worst, maybe I can buy working chassis that will fit under the bodies of my favorite childhood locos?


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

I did some searching and found some links on the locos I have:

1) Bachmann H0 65503 TRAIN E60CP DCC EQUIPPED AMTRAK LOCO

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bachmann-H0...el_RR_Trains&hash=item336f878fc0#ht_713wt_689



2) F9-A Diesel Locomotive

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/bachmannhoscalelocomotives/id42.html

From mr bobs own blog! 

3) Tyco/AHM-Rivarossi HO scale Pennsyvania GG1 2-C+C-2 electric...

http://misterbobsmodelworksemporium.blogspot.com/2008/07/tycoahm-rivarossi-ho-scale-pennsyvania.html

4) Silver streak 430

http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1391


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Sadly...the motors in these particular models were very poorly made. With patience you may get some of them to run but they simply weren't designed or built to be easily worked on.


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

Ok thanks shaygetz, just the kinda advice I was looking for. The first one I opened up didn't look too bad. Wires in place. Gears ( plastic ehh) look to be ok. I tried to disassemble the whole thing. Similar to a Lionel just not as high quality. I found one of the brushes has literally disintegrated. Not sure if I can order a replacement brush. Still maybe theres other probs. earlier when I tried to run it the motor ran only when I certain weight on it. Then would stop. Makes me think the brushes aren't contacting the armature (see the crew over in the Lionel forum has made me sounds so smart).


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

TYCOs actually are fairly easily remotored with CD ROM drive motors, an option you might consider...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10492


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

I'd rather repair HO over O! Shaygetz is right. Just a very good cleaning of everything will help. Take the commutar covers off and clean the brushes and commutor face off. This will help. Be sure NO OIL gets inside.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bryher,

These are somewhat different beasts, but here's a great stepwise description of general maintenance/service tasks on an Athearn diesel loco, with much of the basics applicable towards other locos ...

http://www.mcor-nmra.org/Publications/Articles/Athearn_TuneUp.html

(Thanks to Anton for this link a while back.)

TJ


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

thanks all. great feedback. tjcruiser - great to see you on here, you helped me so much with my lionel! 

Ok, I'm going to slowly take these apart and see what's going on. I love this idea about the CD rom motor. I think i have an old one sitting around in my basement. 

so, two follow ups:

1) any merit to my idea of buying newer working engines and swapping out the bodies of my older engines (as long as they're the same size)? It would allow me to see my old engines from childhood run again. 

2) is there a good place to get parts? the first motor i opened (bachmann) seems all good except one brush was disintegrated and had a bad spring. 

Off to read that athlon link. Very excited!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Yes, I converted a TYCO GP20 with an Athearn GP35 mechanism fairly easily---you should see the faces at a train show when this thing quietly chugs along pulling 35 cars behind it:thumbsup: The plows and the slightly longer than stock wheel base give it a low, sporty look that I really enjoy...










Parts for that stuff are best found in junk lots on eBay, just make sure you know what you're looking at. If you ever have any doubt, just post a link and we'll help you out.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Shay! That was my old Tyco engine!! or at least one just like mine. Ahh more good memories!

Massey


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

ok, got it. very cool pic. My HOs have always been the heart of my passion so I'm getting excited here. Once I can identify each of the locos exactly, I'll try to repair. If not, I'll try to get some working chassis to switch out the shells. I also have the shells of the first trains that got me hooked at 3 yrs old. They're green Penn Central F9-A's I think. Would love to someday shock by big brother with those running again 

Ok, so i'm going to take some good pictures of the bachmann motor I've taken apart later and post them here. From what I can tell, it looks like "F40PH Diesel Locomotive
Amtrak". 

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/bachmannhoscalelocomotives/id50.html


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Glad you guys enjoyed the pix...it'll take some fitting, but it's very rewarding in the end. I had one of those F40PHs...










...there's an old MR article that shows how to fit it to an Athearn F uint frame, I'll have to look it up.

Here's the TYCO/Athearn mods...










Stock frame...










...modified frame...




























...body mods. The shell fits so snug I didn't need screws, it's almost tight enough to lift the whole thing up by its shell.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Massey said:


> Shay! That was my old Tyco engine!! or at least one just like mine. Ahh more good memories!
> 
> Massey


I got this in a junk lot with the Athearn mech...a rainy Saturday with nowhere to go took care of the rest...:thumbsup:


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

shaygetz said:


> Yes, I converted a TYCO GP20 with an Athearn GP35 mechanism fairly easily---you should see the faces at a train show when this thing quietly chugs along pulling 35 cars behind it:thumbsup: The plows and the slightly longer than stock wheel base give it a low, sporty look that I really enjoy...


This is sheer genius! I've still got my old Tyco GP-20 in BN colors that I've been dying to do something with - you've solved my dilemma!


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

I'm selling a Silver Streak on eBay right now that I got in a lot, as well as a GP9. The Silver Streak doesn't work, but someone could use it for parts or fix it.

-J.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

WAIT!! I'll buy the Silver Streak if not too late.


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## bbrunell (Jan 30, 2012)

I have a 39 year old BB Athearn that I restored this weekend. A-line sells a repower kit that makes these engines usable again. I also find that I can get a ton of old Athearn parts at various online vendors including motor mounts body parts, just about everything...


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

Ok! I swapped out the motor from another similar train chassis, actually identical. Opened it up, cleaned and lubricated it, and put it all back together. When I attach two wires from the powerpack to the two leads on the motor brunches, it works!!!! I attached the motor to the truck and back to the chassis frame. When I apply the two elec wires to the two back wheels, it runs! Now....when I put the train on my oval, connect the power pack, it doesn't run?

Wondering how these things use power? Is there some sort of general HO wiring schematic? Power is applied to each rail. The back wheels pick up the power. But I'm sure theres some rules about the power returning, shorting, etc. do some wheels need to be insulated?
Also, when I apply the wires directly to the back wheels, only one set of wheels works. The others don't. I see the back truck has a metal connector between both sets of wheels so figure either should work?m. Just need a basic crash course on wiring these suckers.
Almost there!


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## bbrunell (Jan 30, 2012)

Not quite sure, but a similar thing happened to me while restoring the engine above. I noticed that the rails near the engine were warm. What I discovered is that I had used one truck from one engine and a second truck from the other and the polarity on the trucks was reversed. So when the engine was on the tracks it caused a short. I quickly swapped out one of the trucks and it magically took off!


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

That could be it. I wonder. How can I understand how the different trucks are supposed to work? Are some wheels supposed to be insulated? Some have rubber on the, for traction but I also guess that means no conductivity.

Btw, I did get a little further. I applied the power wires directly to the wires on each side of the trucks that pickup the power. After that, all wheels on the truck worked. Maybe it was just some bad conductivity that needed a jolt.

So now the engine works when I rig the power directly to the top of the chassis with jumpers. Just can't get it to work when I apply power to the rails themselves. So still have to figure out how type whole thing is supposed to work. Will continue to look of or wiring schemes.


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## Ed Gerken (Jan 23, 2012)

Is the power track working? Might be corroded beneath. You can just hold the wires on the rails themselves to check for that.

The track may need cleaning and joiners checked for good contact.

Rig a 12v light bulb across the wires. If the light goes out when you put the train on the track, suspect a short. If no change in the bulb brightness, voltage is not getting from the track to the loco. Or get one of those Harbor Fright $5 digital multimeters (DMM).

-Ed


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## bbrunell (Jan 30, 2012)

take another look at the pictures in this thread - there are shots of the modifications someone made to solder wires to the trucks and motor to form a good connection. You can see from that picture that the pickups which loop up over the drive gears/shaft both come from the same side of the track (no pun intended, but it is kinda funny...). If you have the trucks mixed, there is a possibility that one pickup is opposite from the other, so the positive side is getting grounded out by the opposite truck.

or as others have suggested, maybe your track is dirty. You could rig up a test light, or take the lazy route and try to run another train on that track section.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

You have one of the trucks in backward or the axles are swapped around.
To test clip one lead to one pole of the motor and make sure that all the wheels on one side of the loco power the other pole of the motor.


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

Ed Gerken - not sure if the power track is working, good question. I tried applying the wires directly to the rails and nothing happened. the engine didnt run. I'll have to try that bulb test, cool. I do have a multimeter but...its not working  which is kinda ironic. How do you test a multimeter 

bbrunell - thanks, I didnt pick that up (LOL) when looking at those pics. 

NIMT - oh, i had no idea i could test it that way. not sure that will work with mine? I have a Bachmann motor that has a gear set that powers both sides/wheels at once.

Ok, so first maybe my track is really dirty so have to check that. Altho I did touch the wires directly to the track under the engine, so would that still be dirty track?

I found this on the atlas website - this is what I'm looking for, just a basic idea how the electric works











Also:

- do I need to test this on a full loop of track? I've been using just a few straight pieces so far. Maybe I need a full loop to complete the electrical conductivity?


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## bbrunell (Jan 30, 2012)

You could test on a single piece of track for this...


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

straight track or a loop does not matter as the circuit is completed through the engine not through the rails.

Massey


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

ok good. so where does the insulation need to be? i have a bachmann where the motor is on the front truck. so back truck picks up the power from each rail. no insulated needed? front truck takes the power from the motor and sends it back to the rails. any insulation needed?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

all of my engines pick up the power from both rails on all axles. This gives the engine the best connection to the track and the insulation is between the wheels. Left wheels all pick up power and right wheels do the same. The difference is on Athean engines for example is the right wheels are connected to the frame and the left wheels are connected to a tab that supplies power to the top connection of the motor. The bottom of the motor is connected to the frame of the engine to recieve power that the right wheels transfer through the frame. 

I know it sounds complex but it is actually rather simple.

Massey


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

A good indicator of the quality of a diesel model is the nuber of wheels that pick up electricity.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Give us some pics with the body/shell off and of the bottom of the trucks.


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

Ok, I've been busy with this one and have made alot of progress. Also have a bunch of pics. 

So, I was able to get the engine to work again! 

Most recently I:

- used spare parts to replace all wheels so there was no rubber on them. you'll see from pics below that I had some wheels with rubber insulation. that fixed the "no electrical pickup" problems.

- then, like I was mentioning, I was able to get it to work while connecting power to the top of the chassis (see pick below) but it barely moved at all when running power normally from the track. from everything I've learned here I knew it had to be poor conductivity from track to motor. 

so I:

- used new track I have from my son's small Thomas the Train HO system. This would be my benchmark since the track, power pack, and engine are all brand new.

- removed the rear wheel/truck component. cleaned the wheels as much as possible with some q-tips and iso alcohol. 

- cleaned the contacts that run from the wheels to the power wires.

Reassembled...it ran!! Still not great but I'll comment on that later.

First, some pics:

The Engine, disassembled (Bachmann circa 1989):





































Closeup of the motor and gear setup










Even took the bushings and springs out. One was literally disintegrated.










Finally, how I connected the power from the transformer to the top of the chassis (?) .










I basically tested it each way down the line to see where the power failed. This was my process...

Train doesn't run when on track. After disassembling and cleaning:

- connected power to the two motor brushes: motor worked!
- connected power to the two wires leading to the motor bushes: worked
- connected power to the two wire connections at the back of the chassis (above pick): worked
- connected power to the rear wheels: DID NOT WORK

So that's how I got to cleaning the entire rear truck. 

Very fun and informative! Thank you all! I'll continue to document the others as well on my personal comments from this learning experience.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Aye...ye olde Kader Potater....:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

bryher said:


> So that's how I got to cleaning the entire rear truck.


Sooner or later, we all end up there, too!

Good process of elimination / detective work on your part! :thumbsup:

TJ


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## bryher (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks. No way I couldve come this far, or wouldve attempted, without your help on here. So, now that I have one down and worked through another last night, time to post my thoughts on it all (its right inline with what everyone said at the beginning of this thread).

Wow, these things are cheap! LOL. I can only imagine what my parents spent on these when i was growing up, but I'm not sure they got their money's worth. Now that I remember, 95% was spent with these engines not working. Looking back I assumed it was me not having a clue what I was doing (which I didnt). But the low quality of these engines just added to it. Recently when this forum helped me with my Lionel O guage trains, I remember telling my father in law, "don't worry, these trains will be around in our family for a long time." LOL.

Anyway, all of my engines are both Bachmann and Tyco. It sounds like Athearn is a really good engine right? Well, the last few years my father in law would bring over some of his HO engines to run for my son. And I was always stunned at how well they ran and the level of quality. I think I now know the difference between a good and poor quality engine.

In the end, its not going to stop my trying to revitalize these old engine, for fun and nostalgia. Looks like the key is to have a good stock of spare parts. And when I buy anything new, I'll understand the importance of quality. 

Thanks all. Will post more on this thread if I'm able to get any others working!


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

ah cool, well now to figure out my engines and try this my self LOL!!


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