# Getting started with an old set



## AFnewbie

Hi all-
I think my ID says a lot. By way of intro, I'm a recent retiree and I finally decided to look at my father-in law's AF trains that have been boxed in my basement for 30 years, and I'm sure they haven't been run for approx. 50 years. I wanted to either sell them or try to get them running for my 5 & 7 yr old grandchildren. Well, after a few weeks of testing, I've decided- they will be put in operation, if not for the grandkids, at least for me 

I surprised them on Thanksgiving with the first running of the set. I was able to get two 336 Steam locos running on a simple 4x8 double oval layout. In addition to running the trains, they just loved operating the log loader and switches. Now my goal for Christmas is to expand the layout and get a couple other locos and action cars running. I have a 343 steam and a 474/5 diesel that both need a bit of attention. 

I thoroughly enjoyed the recent thread by "Nuttin but Flyer-" AF #342AC 0-8-0 Switcher Needs TLC". It's so close to my 343 project.

My first forum question- Is there a good way to get frozen knuckle couplers operating (E.g., penetrating oil for the rusted springs), or is it not worth the effort?

Regards to all- I think this is a great forum.
AFnewbie (Aka- Paul M)


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## imatt88

Welcome Paul,

I too, am a noobie to American Flyer

I think Gilbert got it right with better looking locomotives than Lionel IMHO, more realistic looking...

You could try a very small amount of penetrating oil just to start and see what happens..

If that doesn't work, you could always replace the couplers. Lots of repros out there

Lots of good people here to help, if need be

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

Welcome!! You have some of the most sought after engines that Gilbert ever offered, so DON'T SELL THEM CHEAP!!! (if you indeed go that route). The 336's would go for at least $400 a piece, the switcher for $250-300. Glads to see you're going to keep and work on them.
I've had frozen couplers over the years and just let them soak in some penetrating oil like Pb-Blaster or 3 in 1.Let them soak for a couple of hours and slowly and carefully work them by hand. If you break one, you can get repos from quite a few sources. Don't clean the track with sandpaper, and NEVER use steel wool around the trains, EVER.Use a bright-boy or gren scotch-brite pad. Warm soapy water will clean your plastic parts, but stay away from the decals on the cars/engines. A little shot of "pledge" will brighten up the engines/cars without doing any harm.When taking apart the chassis from the shell on cars, remove the small push pins in the corner, and NEVER pry against the plastic shell; IT WILL BREAK!! Any help needed is just a quick posting or email away, buddy. I'm sure there are several guys here that would volunteer their home addresses and/or phone numbers if needed, to help you along, mine included. Good luck, and the number one rule here is, "we love pictures, and you must post pictures, or else we'll send you over to the Lionel section"! Just kidding of course....


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Hi newbie - -Welcome to the forum. You will find plenty of help here as I did. BTW, thanks for the promo. :thumbsup: I like to try to post as much info as possible as I work on projects thus helping the others who attempt the same thing. Sounds like it is paying off for you and your 343 soon.

As flyernut says, you do have some prime Gilbert AF items in your collection. Please hang on to them as long as you have the bug. If by chance, you do decide to rid yourself of them, there are plenty of Flyer ethusiasts here, myself included, who would beg, borrow or steal to have what you have.  Consider using the "Sell Member-to-Member" section in this forum before going the eBay or other route. I'm sure you will get a fair price for anything you have.

BTW -- Check the "sticky notes" posting at the top of the S-Scale forum for plenty of AF info that will help you with those Flyers.

Enjoy your new-found hobby and be sure to post more info as you putter along. Would love to see photos of those big steamers.


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## Texas Pete

AFnewbie said:


> My first forum question- Is there a good way to get frozen knuckle couplers operating (E.g., penetrating oil for the rusted springs), or is it not worth the effort?(Aka- Paul M)


Suggest Liquid Wrench by far over WD for part liberation attempts.

Pete


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## THE TYCO MAN

PB Blaster is the best! Be careful, it'll soften up plastic real easily.I say just spray a few drops and that'll do it. Once it soaks for a while, just loosen it up and move the knuckle.


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## AFnewbie

Thanks for the welcomes and quick replies. I've been doing some preliminary web research for parts, but haven't ordered anything yet. Since I haven't decided yet how far I'm taking this venture, I'm reluctant to pay $$ for shipping a screw here, a couple motor brushes there, etc. Meanwhile, I'm pulling together a list of items needed.

No steel wool in sight- However, I have used a 2" wire wheel on a regular drill to remove the heavy rust on some of the track and switches. I followed that with a smaller wire wheel on a dremel for final cleanup. I've also used a diluted solution of 'Simple Green" for non-electrical cleaning. Any concerns with these approaches? 

Here are a few photos of the collection. After a couple derailments, switches in the next layout will not be so close to the table edge


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## pattaya65

*Flyer*

I would say that you have a nice start. Try to find some CRC 5-56 at your auto parts store. Shoot some on a soft rag and start wipeing everything down, wipe not rub. You could bring those switches back to life by using a bright boy to clean the track tops and then using the CRC5-56 on the switches also. You have some good looking stuff but from a values side a lot is dependent on condition and missing parts. Dont sell just repair and run but take care of the stuff. I don't know where you are locted but try attending some train shows to get the lay of the land. Remember also that Flyer is now oned and produced by Lionel and there is a lot of parts and used stuff available fro Flyer collectors and operators.
Good luck
Wayne
Former flyer collector and operator.


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## flyernut

WOW, nice stuff there. I wish I were in your shoes,lol. I just ordered a bunch of stuff from Doug Peck at Port Lines Hobby Shop. Most of us here shop there for our flyer parts.....................Liquid wrench is also some good stuff.. I use Pb-Blaster mostly.....I don't think the wire wheels will hurt the switches any, but I would finish up the rails with a bright-boy, to be sure. A shot of Pledge on the bakelite parts of your switches when you're done over-hauling them will make them shine like new.... I think you're going in the right direction with your cleaning....By the way, I love the layout,; simple, easy, but functional and busy!! Nice!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I echo flyernut's comments. You have some real nice items in your collection. Several of them would cause us Flyer enthusiasts to drool -- the two Northerns, at least one with a "large" motor, a 30B tranny, a Koppers tank Car, a 740 handcar and you have a full Rocket set. I've been trying to get my hands on the green-striped coaches for months but never find them in good condition or I find them when my pockets are empty.

It sounds like you are moving the right way clean-up wise. When you do decide to request those parts, Doug Peck with Port Lines Hobby online is the place. It's true what you say about the shipping charges. So get your list in order then go shopping. His shipping is $6 for the first $99, then jumps to $15 and so on. I usually try to get my $6 worth by ordering up to $99 each time. It never hurts to have spare parts on hand either. So you may wish to order more than one of a particular item -- just a suggestion.

Someone earlier mentioned going to train shows in your area. That is a good practice where you can find more parts or junk/basket-case items to salvage for parts or restoration.

My 342AC that you mentioned didn't have the tender. Luckily I found one on eBay but it had a bent step after I got it. Later found another one there for a 342DC, but all I needed was the body shell. So eBay would be another place to shop -- just beware of your purchases. Look carefully at all detail info before bidding. Don't hesitate to contact the seller with questions either. They are usually reputable but sometimes lack general knowledge of what they are selling.


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## imatt88

OMG! I would kill to have the 336......:laugh:


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## flyernut

imatt88 said:


> OMG! I would kill to have the 336......:laugh:


No need to kill buddy, it just takes lots of available money, lol... Of which I rarely have.


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## imatt88

Yup, I feel your pain, bro


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## flyernut

I have a K335, big cousin of the 336.. I got a steal on it several years ago on ebay. I actually had some cash as I sold a car and the K335 came up. Nothing missing or broken, excellent lettering, and even the air chime whistle worked... Buy it now for $375.


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## AFnewbie

From my original post, I said that I was setting this up for my grandkids (plus myself, of course). So, I spent today enlarging the layout from 4x8 to 5x13 with full walk-around access (a ping-pong table plus a 4' extension on sawhorses). I was able to do this using scrap lumber on hand, so the layout is a bit of a patchwork, but it will at least be functional for a while. Unfortunately, I had to clear my shop of train (no, "model railroad") stuff so that I could cut the wood. Once I have no more cutting to do and clean up the sawdust, I can re-setup my bench-test and cleaning stations.

With Christmas around the corner, I'll probably focus on cleaning track and expanding the layout to accommodate some accessories and action cars that need the extra space. I have enough track and switches to utilize the space. Of course, I also have to get those action cars and accessories working.

Thanks for all the tips. Please keep 'em coming. 
Paul M


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## flyernut

AFnewbie said:


> From my original post, I said that I was setting this up for my grandkids (plus myself, of course). So, I spent today enlarging the layout from 4x8 to 5x13 with full walk-around access (a ping-pong table plus a 4' extension on sawhorses). I was able to do this using scrap lumber on hand, so the layout is a bit of a patchwork, but it will at least be functional for a while. Unfortunately, I had to clear my shop of train (no, "model railroad") stuff so that I could cut the wood. Once I have no more cutting to do and clean up the sawdust, I can re-setup my bench-test and cleaning stations.
> 
> With Christmas around the corner, I'll probably focus on cleaning track and expanding the layout to accommodate some accessories and action cars that need the extra space. I have enough track and switches to utilize the space. Of course, I also have to get those action cars and accessories working.
> 
> Thanks for all the tips. Please keep 'em coming.
> Paul M


Keep up the good work my friend. Several years ago we had all the kids and grandchildren here for Christmas, and of course they want to see the "trains" in the basement. Well, I had a G scale set-up on the floor around the tree, and the usual flyers going on the layout. My poor little grandson Bennie wet his pants 3 TIMES watching those trains.. That's what Christmas and trains do to kids,lol.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yikes -- good thing you have plenty of "bright boys" on hand to rid the track of rust...:laugh:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Once you get those couplers freed and working, simply give them a dusting of graphite to keep 'em lubed and working freely. I 'dust' them in the usual spots where pieces move and brush it all around to get it into the nooks and crannies. That way there's no oil or grease to gum up later after a few years of use or storage.

If the need arises though, Port Lines sells the various knuckle coupler parts so that you can repair a coupler -- they also sell the entire coupler (about $2.50-$3.00 each) to replace them. It's quite simple to replace them and not that expensive to do so.


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## AFnewbie

A mini-update: I have mocked up an expanded layout. Since this is still early experimentation, I went cheap, using corrugated cardboard to cover over the patchwork of underlying wood pieces. As for the layout, my thinking is that kids will be able reach everything they need to, and with the dual transformer and careful switching, we could even run two locos independently. Does that seem right? Other layout comments welcome.

Maybe you can also advise on my 343. My first objective is to have it run reliably. Only then will I consider 'prettying-it-up' with crossheads, etc. As for getting it running- I managed to solder AWG24 telephone cable to the field coil wires, even the inside 1/8" stub. It's not pretty, but it tests fine for continuity and I don't want to rewind the coil if I can avoid it. I'm hoping it will hold up under track use. We'll see. If it was yours, would you immediately replace any other wires, such as the 4-conductor cable and/or the 5th wire? If so, why and with what cable?

Last question for now. I need PA9603 brushes. They can be ordered slotted or not. Does it matter which?

Thanks, Paul M


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## flyernut

AFnewbie said:


> A mini-update: I have mocked up an expanded layout. Since this is still early experimentation, I went cheap, using corrugated cardboard to cover over the patchwork of underlying wood pieces. As for the layout, my thinking is that kids will be able reach everything they need to, and with the dual transformer and careful switching, we could even run two locos independently. Does that seem right? Other layout comments welcome.
> 
> Maybe you can also advise on my 343. My first objective is to have it run reliably. Only then will I consider 'prettying-it-up' with crossheads, etc. As for getting it running- I managed to solder AWG24 telephone cable to the field coil wires, even the inside 1/8" stub. It's not pretty, but it tests fine for continuity and I don't want to rewind the coil if I can avoid it. I'm hoping it will hold up under track use. We'll see. If it was yours, would you immediately replace any other wires, such as the 4-conductor cable and/or the 5th wire? If so, why and with what cable?
> 
> Last question for now. I need PA9603 brushes. They can be ordered slotted or not. Does it matter which?
> 
> Thanks, Paul M


To answer your questions. Your layout looks great and you WILL be able to run 2 trains at the same time. Just make sure your switches are set to "2-train" operation. There's a little tab/lever on the face of the switch.It looks like a little bell. By switching to "2-train" operation what you are doing in isolating current going to the siding, and/or second loop. If it the switch is set to the other position, both lines,(the curve section and the straight), will have power going to it. You will not be able to park an engine in the siding without it being powered. That's what the "2-train" operation switch will do for you.Once you park your spare engine/consist in the siding and put the frog to straight, you will lose power to the siding. To power the siding back up and move the spare engine, using your remote control levers, just throw the lever to red, and then you have power. I'm sure you know all of this already, please bare with me,lol.
The wire you should be using is 24 gauge "super flex" wire.For the field coil you will be all-right, but for anything else I would use the super flex.As for the wiring harness itself, you can buy a new harness on ebay, or Port Line Hobbies. They'll be about $6-9 bucks, plus shipping, or I can send you a piece to make your own for the cost of a stamp. Your brush # is correct.. I would use the shouldered, non-slotted brushes. Back to your wire questions, if you use a stiff wire on your harness, you could encounter de-railing issues, as the stiffer wire will not bend or flex. I can mail out a piece of the super flex wire to you for that 5th wire, and to give you some type of idea as to what I'm talking about. Just PM me, I'll be glad to help as well as other good people here...Loren


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## flyernut

Forgot this... A lot of folks will use the green indoor/outdoor carpeting for grass. I would stay away from that paper "grass" stuff on a roll. It doesn't look good, doesn't wear very well, and doesn't sit flat. As for the plywood top itself, build it sturdy enough for the grandkids to walk on. My layout top is 1/2" plywood on a 2x4 perimeter, with 2x4 every 16" on center, and 2x4 legs.. On parts of my layout, I also added another sheet under the top to use as a shelf.Yep, it's over kill, but the kids will get a bang walking on top of the table, helping grandpa with the trains...Been there, done that, and they LOVED IT!!!


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## flyernut

Do you have remote control uncouplers for your sidings??? They're great to have when you want to back up your consist, uncouple, and move that engine off to other duty. I have several spares if interested.


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## AFnewbie

Flyernut (aka Loren)- 
Thanks for the multi-replies.
I was aware of the 2-train switch on the switches, but hadn't researched it in detail. Your explanation helps. And thanks for the super-flex cable offer; I might take you up on it if I have trouble with the existing one. I do have a couple remote uncouplers- good suggestion. 
Lastly, I appreciate the 'grandkids can walk on it' image; I'll remember that when/if I get to a more permanent setup. Meanwhile, it's back to track and switch restoration.


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## flyernut

AFnewbie said:


> Flyernut (aka Loren)-
> Thanks for the multi-replies.
> I was aware of the 2-train switch on the switches, but hadn't researched it in detail. Your explanation helps. And thanks for the super-flex cable offer; I might take you up on it if I have trouble with the existing one. I do have a couple remote uncouplers- good suggestion.
> Lastly, I appreciate the 'grandkids can walk on it' image; I'll remember that when/if I get to a more permanent setup. Meanwhile, it's back to track and switch restoration.


Not a problem.. Just send a PM or just answer here on the thread. Nuttin but Flyer,(Don) can also be of great help.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Sure I'll gladly help where I can. But since you already have that baby apart, I'd go ahead and rewire the harness from the tender to engine jackplug -- seems almost silly not to do so now. Then you'll be satified that it was done right with the proper wiring.


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## markjs

Soory, wrong thread!


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## markjs

Welcome to the club. WOW! You inherited a nice collection. I wish I knew how to make repairs--I'm new at this too. I like your simple yet fuctional layout.
From what little I know, I would recommend placing a section or half section of straight track between the two adjacent switches on the lower left. Then connect the power from the transformer to this section. That way you can run a train on the outer loop and park a train on the inner loop, and vice versa. Otherwise if the lock-on is on the outer loop, when the switches are set to the inner loop, the loop will not get power. (Assuming you have the switches set for two-train operation.)

Mark

Guys, if I'm wrong in my assumption, kindly let me know. (This is how I have my simple layout wired.)


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## markjs

AF Newbie,
I posted a reply in the wrong thread. Check out the other threads from me (markjs).
Sorry about that.


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## AFnewbie

Newbie makes progress, but needs some help. , 

Key progress is that I now I have two 336's plus a 474 working, all with proper reversing action. As for the layout, all track and switches have been prepped, each oval is wired to its own transformer, and the 2 pairs of oval-connecting switches are set for 2-train operation. Not sure if that's ideal, but in this mode I can run two trains independently on the inner and outer ovals. I can also run one train with 'careful' remote switching between ovals.

As pointed out by Mark, where I need help is in the spur switching. However, I don't fully understand the suggestion. My obvious goal is to use remote control switches to activate the two trailing-point spurs one at time. I thought if those switches were set to 2-train, then whichever spur is physically routed to the inner oval via the 2 switches would be active. This works for the upper spur, but not the lower. Further, I seem to trip the transformer in certain test settings. 

Thx, Paul M


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## AFnewbie

I think I solved my self-made problem. The train shed was shorting out the track. When I removed it, the voltage checks showed as I expected. I'll report back after I run some live train tests.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Dontcha just love it when you find your own problem and fix it -- warm and fuzzy feeling all over. LOL


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## AFnewbie

Well, Don- the fix-it part certainly feels better than the broke-it part hwell: 

I spent some time today with "wire management" and am satisfied with my result so far. See photos. Once finished, the grandkids will have more "stuff" to tinker with, without some big person chanting- "be careful with those wires" all the time.

I saw your other thread about you Christmas layout- good luck with it, and how's it coming along? (Any chance a newbie helped push you into action?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

As much as I would like to pass the credit on to you, it's really my 1 yr old grandson's face that lights-up when he sees my trains.

Just took him to a nearby Norfolk-Southern railroad crossing yesterday, and caught a long freight train passing through. He might still be pulling his fist up and down saying "whoo-whoo". Ya gotta love that!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I haven't started it yet other than obtaining the wood @ Lowe's. Hopefully during some evenings this week. I need to re-arrange some furniture in the livingroom to get the space for it. Surprisingly the wife is in full agreement and looking forward to this project.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I haven't started it yet other than obtaining the wood @ Lowe's. Hopefully during some evenings this week. I need to re-arrange some furniture in the livingroom to get the space for it. Surprisingly the wife is in full agreement and looking forward to this project.


It's VERY important to get the boss's ok...


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## AFnewbie

*ready for Christmas*

Hi all-
Well, I still have a long way to go, but I learned a lot over my first month with the trains, with thanks to you all on this forum. The layout is certainly not polished, with lots of exposed wiring, etc, but I think it's ready for the grandkids at Christmas. it meets my goal of "stuff to do" for the 5 & 7yr olds. 

Here's my first video attempt. http://youtu.be/dFzIoi1jAzw

Thx again-
Paul M


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## T-Man

It's looks great to me. :thumbsup:


Paste the video url between the you tube brackets and delete the excess leaving the alphanumeric id.


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## flyernut

I like!!! So will the grand-kids.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well-Done Newbie!!! :thumbsup:


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## dc57

AFnewbie said:


> Hi all-
> Well, I still have a long way to go, but I learned a lot over my first month with the trains, with thanks to you all on this forum. The layout is certainly not polished, with lots of exposed wiring, etc, but I think it's ready for the grandkids at Christmas. it meets my goal of "stuff to do" for the 5 & 7yr olds.
> 
> Here's my first video attempt. http://youtu.be/dFzIoi1jAzw
> 
> Thx again-
> Paul M


Looks great Paul. Good job! :thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Paul,

I just saw your vid ... great fun! Lots of twists and turns, and plenty of smiles to boot, I'm sure!

TJ


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## THE TYCO MAN

Hope to see more videos and progress! I myself is just getting started in American Flyer "S" guage ( have a few HO pieces in collection). How did you mount those oper. access. push buttons to the control panel?


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## AFnewbie

THE TYCO MAN said:


> How did you mount those oper. access. push buttons to the control panel?


I laid out the pattern I wanted on a piece of 1/2" plywood, then used an awl through the screw holes in the controls to mark precisely where the screw pilot holes needed to be. I then drilled larger holes for the wires. I added spacer strips of wood on the bottom to allow space for the wires. The wires are knotted to prevent pulling through and extend about 8" below the board to allow connection to accessory wires. In front of the controls, I mounted 5 push-pull switches to control various lights. I think kids love turning lights on/off as much as running trains.


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## AFnewbie

*Water tower question*

I could now use some help with my water tower. 

It works electrically, but I'm not sure how to attach the lever that lowers the spout. The spring holds it in place very loosely; it just doesn't seem right. I see the little slots in the lever, but I can't seem to make them stay aligned, and when activated, the lever just falls off. From the photo, can you tell if any parts are missing? Any other thoughts?

Paul M


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Kinda hard to tell from the photo, but do you have the return spring in place? It should be on the far side in the photo you posted.


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## AFnewbie

*Water Tank working*

Thanks Nuttin-
I did have the spring on, but is was much looser than yours looked. I tightened it up and it's now working. And more satisfying to me, I finally got my 2-man hand car running.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Glad to hear that. Sorry it took so long though.


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## AFnewbie

*Handcar sparking-*

Now that I have my handcar working, I'm noticing that it sparks quite a bit at the wheels on the track. Is that normal or should I be concerned? If it's a concern, any suggestions?
I tried to capture the sparking on video, but it really doesn't show; so, there's nothing worth posting.

Thanks, Paul M


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## flyernut

AFnewbie said:


> Now that I have my handcar working, I'm noticing that it sparks quite a bit at the wheels on the track. Is that normal or should I be concerned? If it's a concern, any suggestions?
> I tried to capture the sparking on video, but it really doesn't show; so, there's nothing worth posting.
> 
> Thanks, Paul M


No real concern here.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Typically the sparking is caused by dirt -- on the track, the wheels or both. Perhaps a good cleaning is all that's needed. Try using a green Scotchbrite on the track and wheels, maybe follow up with some 2000 grit sandpaper on the wheels or a Dremel tool with a brass wire brush.


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## AFnewbie

Before my test runs, I did use the dremel (steel brush, not brass) on the wheels and scotchbrite (blue, not green) on the track. As long as the minor sparking isn't a concern, I'm satisfied.
Thanks for keeping me on the right track, 
Paul M


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