# 4% grades



## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

What do y'all think about 4% grades for HO which, if my math is correct, is 1 inch rise in 25 inches of run.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I think you're asking for trouble. If there are no curves on your grades, you'll severely limit the pulling power of your locos, and adding curves will reduce it even more. You will also absolutely need a transition area of shallower grade at both ends, otherwise you will have constant derailments, uncoupling, and even stalls (due to the nose, pilots, or couplers "digging in" to the tracķ). The additional space required for the transition area is often not available on layouts where you need to use very steep grades.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

I have 2 1/2 % on mine, and it does limit the number of cars, especially on curves,


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think the asking for trouble comment says it all!  Although I do O-scale and not HO, my max grade is 2.5%. With a 2.5% grade, I did need a couple feet of easement on each end to transition onto and off of the grade to allow larger locomotives to smoothly transition the grade.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Stejones82 said:


> What do y'all think about 4% grades for HO which, if my math is correct, is 1 inch rise in 25 inches of run.


As they say in movies, "Forget about it!".
You have that ready made plastic ballast track, it will take a couple of feet just to transition from flat to slope.
Your layout is too small for any amount of grade, mine has 2% in a small area with 18" radius and I have a couple of locos that cannot pull more than 4 cars.
Use scenery to make an illusion of steepness.


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## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

Thanks, all. In this, as in most things, I cherish your advice!


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

A 4% grade would be very tough for a long train, but I'm inclined to think you may be building this on a pretty small layout. A 4% may not look great but it gets your short train to where you want it to be. A short stretch of 4% may be doable as you whole train won't be in the grade. I have a 2% grade that is well over 40 feet long. A lot of train that is weighted makes it up the grade.
This video clip is from about 7 years ago.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

My RhB line operates at 6%+ effective, no traction tires.

But, yeah, just fugetaboutit. Can't do it, it'll never work.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

This simp: If you plan to only run short trains (loco+ 3-5 cars) then don't worry, have fun and, not only said in movies: fuggeddaboudit !!!


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

For practical reasons, real world trains avoid severe grades. Four percent is severe. But, in our foreshortened scale world, where an entire empire and rail division has to fit on a sheet of plywood, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Just accept that the physics is exactly the same. A train that will easily go up 2% will work a lot harder to go up 4%, and if you have enough 'trailing tonnage', it may just stop or spin in place. Avoid grinding off the sintered coating of your locomotive's drivers if you can...you don't want spinnning. If you can live with a loco and two or three cars, maybe lightened a bit, go for it. Just don't 'spect miracles. Ain't gonna happen.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)




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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The key concept that people keep overlooking is the need for a transition onto and off of the grade, which is more critical than the grade itself. What's the point of having trains that can climb steep grades if they're always derailing, coming uncoupled, or digging their nose in as they try to negotiate the abrupt change in slope? If it's a space constraint that necessitates the steep grade, then it's usually a non-starter on a layout.

Real trains climb steeper grades than 4%, sure, but they don't go from dead flat track to a steep grade in a distance shorter than the trucks on the loco.

It's also important to keep in mind that people, in the transportation industry, are considered "light, fluffy cargo", in that they take up a lot of space in proportion to their weight.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

That's some strange looking track cross ties in the second picture.
Set at an angle.

Beautiful train and scenery.


Magic


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I tried finding that track and checked with BEMO and Tillig but no one makes it. You'd have to hand lay that and make your own sleepers.


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## Geno the Viking (Feb 29, 2012)

Stejones82 said:


> What do y'all think about 4% grades for HO which, if my math is correct, is 1 inch rise in 25 inches of run.


I'm laying out 3% grades right now and I'd be scared to go any steeper. My first layout has a maximum of 2% which works great.


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## glenng6 (Mar 12, 2011)

My layout has no straight track and grades up to 4%. I seldom have derailments, because I made sure to include easements. What I struggled with was having short trains, when I wanted long ones. Adding additional locos when I started my layout, in the early eighties, was frustrating. Since buying a pair of E-Z App locos and a pair of Bachmann Sound Value locos, it has become extremely easy to consist multiple locos. Now a pair of locos can pull a dozen, or more, pieces of rolling stock. Using DCC can, also, consist locos, so there are many ways to overcome the grade issue without pulling out your hair. If you can make the grades less steep do it. If you can't make sure you have good easements. Glenn


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