# Making Custom Engines (n-scale)?



## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

One of my list of future projects is modding an engine to look like a car on one of the inclines (Duquesne Incline) here in Pittsburgh.

I guesstimate it's dimensions to be about 15 feet long, 5 feet wide, and 7 feet tall. 

Anyone have an idea of what n-scale engine I could start with? Or any general pointers to modding engines? 

Thanks!


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

Hmmm, on second thought, I can just have free wheels if I make a belt system to drive it!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*If it works, don't "fix" it.*



ninjarobert said:


> Hmmm, on second thought, I can just have free wheels if I make a belt system to drive it!


ninjarobert;

Yep. If pulling a cable car up an incline with a cable works for the prototype, why not use the same system for the model? With that steep a grade, a conventional locomotive would not be able to climb it. The only locomotives that do are on cog railways, like the Mt. Washington, New Hampshire, cog railway.
A slow speed gear motor like those made by Hankscraft, would work to power your cable car. There is also a working, commercial model of such a "Funicular" system. I think it may be made by Faller. However, it's quite expensive.

good luck with your project!

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

traction fan said:


> ninjarobert;
> 
> Yep. If pulling a cable car up an incline with a cable works for the prototype, why not use the same system for the model? With that steep a grade, a conventional locomotive would not be able to climb it. The only locomotives that do are on cog railways, like the Mt. Washington, New Hampshire, cog railway.
> A slow speed gear motor like those made by Hankscraft, would work to power your cable car. There is also a working, commercial model of such a "Funicular" system. I think it may be made by Faller. However, it's quite expensive.
> ...


Thanks for the tip on the motor. Those commercial kits are too expensive for me to just hack apart 

I road a cog train in Switzerland up Mount Pilatus. Very cool ride into the clouds!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice shot of the city, I have not been out there in a long time.:smilie_daumenpos:

MAN ! I wouldn't want to ride that and have the cable and brakes fail ! 

You wonder how something like that even gets built and then maintained too.

Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

Big Ed said:


> Nice shot of the city, I have not been out there in a long time.:smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> MAN ! I wouldn't want to ride that and have the cable and brakes fail !
> 
> ...


It's a fun ride. Cables fail and you tumble onto a busy street, lol. Just looked up stats.. 30.5 degree incline. It's pretty well maintained these days by the transportation authority. Funny thing is several times a years, people try to climb down the hill side and get stuck...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You may be able to find an old trolley car for the body, the boxy thing underneath should not be too hard to fabricate up?
That is almost what the body looks like?

On the top of the hill some kind of little motor to let the cable down and wind it up might work?
Put the motor and cable reel inside some kind of shed up top?

Use some heavy black thread for the cable?


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

Big Ed said:


> You may be able to find an old trolley car for the body, the boxy thing underneath should not be too hard to fabricate up?
> That is almost what the body looks like?
> 
> On the top of the hill some kind of little motor to let the cable down and wind it up might work?
> ...


Good idea. I'll do some digging on the trolley body. I think I can make the structure underneath. 

I was thinking a relay switch to reverse the polarity of the motor to change direction. 

The actual incline has two tracks. I think they're on the same belt... as one goes up the other goes down. Deciding if I should try to do that


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Efficient "windlass" type design*



ninjarobert said:


> Good idea. I'll do some digging on the trolley body. I think I can make the structure underneath.
> 
> I was thinking a relay switch to reverse the polarity of the motor to change direction.
> 
> The actual incline has two tracks. I think they're on the same belt... as one goes up the other goes down. Deciding if I should try to do that


ninjarobert;

The two car, two track, set up is designed for efficiency. The cable is linked between the two cars and passes through a windlass type hoist mechanism. As one car is pulled up, the other car is lowered. The weight of one car balances the weight of the other. This means the windlass has an easy time of it, since it is lifting almost no weight. 
Using two cars also cuts the waiting time in half for passengers. It also increases overall capacity and overall profits.  
Bachman makes an N-scale model of a Brill trolley, that looks somewhat similar to the car in your photo. You might want to shorten this trolley though. It is longer than your car looks to be. 
Hankscraft motors are made in several different gear ratios for different speeds. I use the 7 RPM motors to operate turnouts, and the 1 RPM type for semaphores.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

traction fan, all those motors looks hardcore! Any videos of the setup in action? 

Thanks for the belt information. I went on a tour of the mechanical room years ago. Impressive space. Will have to take a trip again to get pictures for scale references.

The current plan is for an exact replica.... but if that fails, I'll definitely use that trolley. Looks very close indeed!

I was looking at motor kits from Tamiya  because they're small and have adjustable speeds. Wondering how long they last though.... any experiences with them?

Update: Ooooh, really like the look of this motor. Some nice brass gears/pulley wheels and it can be a visible part of the structure. Getting excited about this project... gotta get up and running and finish my car wash though!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Motors*



ninjarobert said:


> traction fan, all those motors looks hardcore! Any videos of the setup in action?
> 
> Thanks for the belt information. I went on a tour of the mechanical room years ago. Impressive space. Will have to take a trip again to get pictures for scale references.
> 
> ...


ninjarobert;

Any slow speed gear motor should work. The Hankscraft ones ,shown in my photo, have the advantage of being very quiet. They were originally used to power moving advertising displays in stores. The photo shows the motors used to operate turnouts, and engine house doors, in my N-scale representation of Cedar Falls, Washington. The turnout motors are wired for "route control" using diodes. Setting a single rotary switch on the control panel, causes the motors needed for aligning all the yard turnouts for a chosen track to operate simultaneously. 
I have not used Tamiya motors, but I do use their paint, which is excellent. 
No, I don't have any videos. In fact, I'm a bit of a "digital dummy" and don't even know how to make videos.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

traction fan said:


> ninjarobert;
> 
> Any slow speed gear motor should work. The Hankscraft ones ,shown in my photo, have the advantage of being very quiet. They were originally used to power moving advertising displays in stores. The photo shows the motors used to operate turnouts, and engine house doors, in my N-scale representation of Cedar Falls, Washington. The turnout motors are wired for "route control" using diodes. Setting a single rotary switch on the control panel, causes the motors needed for aligning all the yard turnouts for a chosen track to operate simultaneously.
> I have not used Tamiya motors, but I do use their paint, which is excellent.
> ...


So, when you turn the knob the track switches via the motors? That's fricking awesome!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Not original*



ninjarobert said:


> So, when you turn the knob the track switches via the motors? That's fricking awesome!


ninjarobert;

I can't claim the idea. I copied it from a Model Railroader magazine article.  But yes, it does work that way. The motors are in front, along with nearly all the wiring, because I'm old, and partially disabled. I want to make crawling under the layout as rare an event as I possibly can! :smilie_daumenneg: That idea was also in Model Railroader.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

Decided to 3D print the car. I'll probably end up making two and don't want to fuss with hand-making them. About 20 hours in SketchUp and I'm getting pretty close. 

Waiting for wheels to arrive so I can make some measurements to model the bottom part.


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

I was looking at track for my incline. I came across bridge flex by micro-engineering. It looks awesome and very similar to that used on the actual incline. I'd like to maintain the look in terms of 'suspended' with trestles and 'framework', i.e., not solid substrate (see pic). Any idea if this flex will be rigid enough to do this?

They come in 3' lengths, which works out perfectly for me-- I'm scaling it down a bit due to space constraints (it should have a 5' track length).


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

Pretty much done. Debating whether I should bother with interior details on the roof and need to plan any features needed to run wiring for lights.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*looking good*



ninjarobert said:


> Pretty much done. Debating whether I should bother with interior details on the roof and need to plan any features needed to run wiring for lights.


ninjarobert;

Your model looks great so far!:appl: As for the spindly-appearing bridge that's really quite strong, I would solder the framework from brass. Now, while Micro Engineering can make a better looking girder than I can, I can make a stronger interior. The deck plate girder bridges in the photo, have M. E.'s girder castings on the outside, glued to a scratch built, brass interior bridge. These bridges can easily support twenty times their own weight. They are extremely rigid and strong, due to the brass bridge between the plastic castings.
Your project is going to be a different shape, but the same idea might work for you. Actually your entire bridge structure could be made from brass channels, strip stock, and rods. Flex track, with every other tie removed, would work for the track. 
Some tiny surface-mount LEDs, and some benches with seated figures would add a lot to the model. The LEDs could be battery, track, or cable, powered. The overhead cable that pulls the car up, could be made of two tightly-twisted fine gage, insulated wires. They could carry power from the winch house to the car. Even shellac- magnet wire could work,if you were very careful about the twisting. Perhaps better yet, how about that tiny audio cable used on earbuds?
After looking again at the prototype photo, it doesn't look like there was anything on the car's roof, except one small, round, vent; on the uphill end.

Great work!

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## ninjarobert (Dec 19, 2017)

traction fan,

Thanks for the info on the track. Appreciate you sharing the pic (p.s. the water looks awesome!). I like the idea of soldering to brass.

There's not too much on the ceiling... a hanging light and some cabinet type feature. Going to skip that...

I have benches inside (see attached pic). Nice idea about running power from the cable. I was going to grab it off the rail through the wheels, but I think I like your idea better!!!

Thanks again for your tips. They're super valuable!


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