# Lionel/American Flyer Diesel "Piercing Sound"



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

I just tested my Texas Special & Delaware & Hudson Diesel A Units - they are running great & crew talk,
horn & bells all are working fine. Both engines are making a "shrill, piercing noise" as they fly around the
track. Any ideas on what is making that sound??


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

artrep1 said:


> I just tested my Texas Special & Delaware & Hudson Diesel A Units - they are running great & crew talk,
> horn & bells all are working fine. Both engines are making a "shrill, piercing noise" as they fly around the
> track. Any ideas on what is making that sound??


Lack of oil somewhere?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If these are SD70ACe's the shrill whine you hear is the simulated turbocharger sound. I have four SD70ACe's and it sure can be annoying. Turn down the volume a bit and adjust the labor rate and the speed step (there are 9) from the Cab2. I have been able to reduce mine to a tolerable level.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

These are not SD70ACe's - they are Alco's - as an example - the 6-48163 Texas Special is a Alco PA-1
Powered unit. I tried turning the sound down which did not work. Oil is not an issue either as the shrill wine even occurs at a standstill when power is turned on.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It is the smoke unit fan. It needs oiled or replaced. This has become a real weak point, the quality of the smoke units has declined. Five of mine have been replaced in the last six months for either loud squealing, fan failure or heating element failure.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I forgot to say that turning the smoke setting to OFF on the Cab 2 will stop the fan and end the squealing.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Wow! You are correct! When I first tested the Texas Special there was no squealing. I then added 10 drops of smoke fluid & the squealing started up! Just ran another test on both Alcos -
Turned off the smoke unit on the Delaware & Hudson Alco - running with no squealing.
Turned off the smoke unit on The Texas Special Alco - still a slight squeal but I am still getting smoke. (Will continue to monitor the Texas Special).
The bummer of course is that I always enjoyed those smoke units!!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I have a service provider I send my engines to. I send about 3 engines to him every six months. At the moment I have one engine with a squealing fan, one with a failed fan and one not working at all. That last one could be a failed board. I like all my engines to smoke so I keep them in good repair but it costs more than a few dollars to do that with the some of these marginal smoke units. I have had no failures on my four SD70ACe's or my 3 latest run U36's.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Geez, what a hassle! I don't understand why Lionel can't fix the smoke unit problems on many of their
engines. My update on engines I have bought in the last 5-6 years:
U33G Delaware & Hudson Diesel - smokes fine.
1958 Commemorative Docksider Switcher - smokes fine.
Chesapeake & Ohio Berkshire - only puffs smoke after running & at a standstill. Same with my Polar Express Berkshire.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The smoke units on the Berkshires take a lot of smoke fluid. I have three of them. To keep them smoking I started the initial fill with 25 drops. It will run for about 10 minutes until I need to add another 10 drops. When they sit overnight or longer I add 10 drops before running them again. Try adding 10 drops of fluid before each operating session and see if it helps.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for that suggestion! I will give it a try!


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

I never thought to add more smoke fluid as the manual calls for 4-6 drops. I followed your instructions
on my Chesapeake & Ohio Berkshire which is on the layout right now. WOW!! What a difference - now smoking like crazy! Thanks so much for your insight!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I think Lionel does a lot of cut and paste from old manuals when they release a new engine. Putting only 4 drops in a Berkshire will cause the wick to char. These things really smoke, I am glad yours is now as well. The same guidance applies to the newer U36 and SD70ACe.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Tom - Thanks so much for your insight - you have been very helpful with my issues. I just noticed that you
are originally from Pittsburgh - that is where I live! I don't know how long you have been in CA but my favorite train stores here are long gone. This makes it difficult for repairs & I haven't been real happy sending a couple of engines
back to Lionel for repair.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I still have a lot of family in Pittsburgh, so prior to Covid we visited Pittsburgh once each year. Ten years ago my brother and I would make the rounds of the train stores, today there are none left. The show in Monroeville is still operating. I have attended that many times. Up until this year the show at the Castle Shannon Fire House was held every year. I went there but there was an absence of AF. I hope to be able to come back to Pittsburgh for another visit next summer unless they decide to come to California.
If you have Lionel AF that need repairs I suggest you contact Carl Tuveson. That is who repairs all of mine. I do not know if he is accepting new customers. He is in South Bend, UPS gets a lot of business from me.


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

Tom, do you know what Carl does to lubricate the smoke fans? I have two that do this, but I haven't bothered to open them up and to try and remedy the issue. Perhaps a drop of oil applied right where the fan shaft comes out of the motor housing would do it, but I'd be a little concerned the oil doing some damage to the motor. As I recall, the Lionel fan motor housings cannot be opened without almost certainly damaging them.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Tom - Good to hear about your visits to Pittsburgh - as I mentioned before I miss the train stores that I used to
frequent. Remember the Iron Horse? Great people! Thanks for the info on Carl - that may be something I will consider in the future. I will be interested also in your reply to Chuck - I'm not too keen on opening up the Texas Special & maybe damaging something.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The Iron Horse was one of the stores we visited. It was close to my brother's place in Bethel Park. There was another store at the cloverleaf, forget the name, plus Bill and Walt's hobby shop.
Carl takes off the boiler shell and somehow puts oil on the fan shaft. I do not know the details. On all but one of my engines Carl has replaced the fan or the entire smoke unit. I bought a New Old Stock Santa Fe Y-3 last year. After an hour or running the smoke fan started that loud intolerable screeching. I sent it to him and he lubed the fan and fixed the front marker lights which were not working. After another hour of running the fan is squealing again. This time we will put in a new fan.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Tom - I don't remember the name of the store at the cloverleaf - maybe Toby Tyler? Yes, Bill & Walt's also...A few years ago I found a store in Wheeling, WV - Patrick's Trains. I have bought a few Lionel/American Flyer trains from him at a discount (pre-orders). Another possibility for repairs - will call them at some point about the smoke issues - Imperial Train Company, Imperial, PA.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is it, Toby Tyler! I also left out A B Charles in Dormont. I never made it to Patrick's Trains. I never heard of Imperial Train Company, I need to look them up.


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Tom - Yes, A.B. Charles - forgot about them!


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

This video popped up in my feed. Sure enough, a drop of oil on the fan shaft where it enters the housing is the fix....


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## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi Chuck - Very good video but it doesn't look like it's as easy as the narrator claims. I don't think I would
try this on my own. Better to have a good repair guy tackle the problem!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Very good video Chuck. And the fix did work. That was an O scale engine. S scale might not be as easy. Then again it might. Lionel could have used better quality fan motors. Like a maintenance free can motor. Then it would have a nylon bushing where the motor shaft comes out instead of a brass bushing. For many years now any time I open an engine I have placed a drop of oil on each end of a motor shaft. Some probably did not need it but it will not hurt a motor. Keep it to a small drop of oil. For what these modern engines cost you should not have to lube a fan motor. But you do. Lionel should use a better motor. Every company wants to keep costs down but some places the quality should not be cut. Lionel knows they have a problem with smoke motors. And it could be fixed.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Chuck, thaks for posting that video. I use a professional for two reasons. First is some physical ability limitatons, the second and more important is with at least half of the engines more issues were found and fixed/improved that were not evident from running the engine.


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

I have taken a couple of their smoke units apart for different reasons. If I have time tomorrow, I will open up my son's TX Special PA that howls and try a drop of oil on the shaft at the point of contact with the bearing and see what happens.


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