# new bridge for layout



## midlifekrisiz

took a break from track laying today and moved on to another bridge...(figured I would post it here as well)






































the makings of the center I beams



















bit of a test fit....so far so good


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## Raptorman83

Nice. 

How are you planning on painting it?


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## midlifekrisiz

Raptorman83 said:


> Nice.
> 
> How are you planning on painting it?


I was thinking a steel grey and then adding detailing after. probably spray can lol


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## Big Ed

Nice bridge you made there. :thumbsup:
Are you going to paste a name on it?

I am rivet counting now. 
Add some rivets to it?

There is something on the site about sheets of rivets for sale, somewhere.
They look just like a raised rivet when applied.


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## midlifekrisiz

big ed said:


> Nice bridge you made there. :thumbsup:
> Are you going to paste a name on it?
> 
> I am rivet counting now.
> Add some rivets to it?
> 
> There is something on the site about sheets of rivets for sale, somewhere.
> They look just like a raised rivet when applied.


Thanks Big Ed
I was planning on it later on (have a friend that makes decals)
i am going to use a steel grey for the whole bridge and then a slightly darker grey to add the rivits...there is a craft paint out there that if you leave a "bump" it will harden that way so I am thinking a very sharp paintbrush and that to do the rivits (and yes I know it is alot of them) but i will see what that sheet of rivets is all about for sure :thumbsup:


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## Big Ed

I am always rivet counting. 

Not really just making constructive suggestions. It is up to the readers to use them or not.

The ones I am talking about had a 3D effect, once applied they looked good.
I think it was here on the site not sure.

I think what you said will look nice...sounds nice.
But you got to make sure they are all in line, uniform in placement.
Use a straight edge as you go along. I think TJ has a rebuild thread on one of his tin car rebuilds that he used a sharpie to add rivets. It has to be a tedious, monotonous job. 
Need to take your time and take plenty of liquid breaks. 

Try what you said you were going to do, they will probably look better then the decals, maybe try on a scrap piece of wood first to see if it will work.

May decal out AMERICAN FLYER across it? :thumbsup:


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## midlifekrisiz

big ed said:


> I am always rivet counting.
> 
> Not really just making constructive suggestions. It is up to the readers to use them or not.
> 
> The ones I am talking about had a 3D effect, once applied they looked good.
> I think it was here on the site not sure.
> 
> I think what you said will look nice...sounds nice.
> But you got to make sure they are all in line, uniform in placement.
> Use a straight edge as you go along. I think TJ has a rebuild thread on one of his tin car rebuilds that he used a sharpie to add rivets. It has to be a tedious, monotonous job.
> Need to take your time and take plenty of liquid breaks.
> 
> Try what you said you were going to do, they will probably look better then the decals, maybe try on a scrap piece of wood first to see if it will work.
> 
> May decal out AMERICAN FLYER across it? :thumbsup:


OHHHH I plan on practicing first lol and yes an AF decal accross it would be apropriate I think :thumbsup:


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## midlifekrisiz

is this what you were talking about?

http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html


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## Big Ed

midlifekrisiz said:


> is this what you were talking about?
> 
> http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html


These are their O bridge rivets, do you see any 3D effect looking at them, I don't? 

Makes you dizzy if you stare at them long enough.










I think what you explained will probably look a whole lot better.

I bookmarked them and will check out their site further when I get the time.
Expensive little dots huh? 
$17.95 plus shipping!


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## midlifekrisiz

well a couple hrs here and a couple hrs there and it is getting closer to being done.










need some opinions on tie size......compared to the original size of the ties what one would you guys use?


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## tjcruiser

Krisiz,

The bridge looks great! I like the trussed deck.

Are you talking about replacing all of your ties, or just those near the bridge? Of the two wood sets shown, I think the larger on the left are more in keeping with the "toy" feel of the trains. (Rather than a true-protypical look.) My two cents, anyway.

TJ


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## midlifekrisiz

tjcruiser said:


> Krisiz,
> 
> The bridge looks great! I like the trussed deck.
> 
> Are you talking about replacing all of your ties, or just those near the bridge? Of the two wood sets shown, I think the larger on the left are more in keeping with the "toy" feel of the trains. (Rather than a true-protypical look.) My two cents, anyway.
> 
> TJ


Thanks tj 

yes going to lay down all new ties on the deck of the bridge after I paint the bridge.
I figure that the wider ties will allow me to set spikes in the proper way as I have noticed that most that lay their own rail only use 1 spike on each side and the right way is 2 on the inside and 1 on the outside...the wider ones will allow me to do this. the rest of the track will have the original steel ties that come with the track.


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## Big Ed

Couldn't you just use the track as it and tack down the ties to the bridge?
There must be holes in the flyer track right?
You wouldn't need to tack every hole.

Just a thought.


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## midlifekrisiz

big ed said:


> Couldn't you just use the track as it and tack down the ties to the bridge?
> There must be holes in the flyer track right?
> You wouldn't need to tack every hole.
> 
> Just a thought.


and a good thought it is Ed but I am wanting to do this as good as possable and spiking the rail to the ties would just look better in the end IMHO
If you look at the tressle i built comming off the mountain i planned the ties on the bridge to accept the steel ties on the AF track and if i did that to this one the steel ties would be sitting too high and I think it would look funny so going to hand set the rail onto the ties on this one ...taking my time with this one :thumbsup:


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## midlifekrisiz

well I think I got the final details in wood on the bridge. if anyone sees anything that should be added please feel free to chime in before I paint it 























































the ties are not glued to the deck yet as I want to stain them to look right ....then once the bridge is painted I will glue them in place and spike them


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## Big Ed

Why don't you do the whole layout with the wood ties. 
They look good, :thumbsup:

Maybe some more sanding?
The bridge looks good, start painting. :thumbsup:


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## midlifekrisiz

big ed said:


> Why don't you do the whole layout with the wood ties.
> They look good, :thumbsup:


I'm not that much into it lol



big ed said:


> Maybe some more sanding?


yes some sanding is in order 



big ed said:


> The bridge looks good, start painting. :thumbsup:


thanks ...hoping to start painting it this weekend and I think I will make the deck ties a bit longer...been looking at pics of real ones and they are longer than what i have on mine.


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## Big Ed

midlifekrisiz said:


> I'm not that much into it lol
> 
> 
> 
> yes some sanding is in order
> 
> 
> 
> thanks ...hoping to start painting it this weekend and I think I will make the deck ties a bit longer...been looking at pics of real ones and they are longer than what i have on mine.


That is what my shop teacher always told me to do ,more SANDING!
I think I spent 90% of my time in shop class SANDING!

I believe why they look bigger is because they used timbers, ( a bigger sized tie sort of) for the bridges.
More strength.

I used to haul creosoted ties and timbers, all different sizes.
Now creosote is banned now. Nasty stuff, used to make my skin burn & itch and my eyes burn.


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## midlifekrisiz

here are some pics of the bridge after painting black then using artist crayons to weather/rust it.....hope it looks ok


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## Carl

Very nice work.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks like it's about to decay into the river!  You sure you want your trains going across that span?


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## Southern

Good work there. you are inspiring me to build a bridge from scratch.


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## midlifekrisiz

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Looks like it's about to decay into the river!  You sure you want your trains going across that span?


B&B said it is still ok


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## gunrunnerjohn

midlifekrisiz said:


> B&B said it is still ok


I'd hire an independent inspector.


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## Big Ed

Take a picture of the bridge from further back.
I don't think we are seeing what the paint/weathering job really represents.
I know that from my pictures. 

Take one from further back, then I will tell you what I think. 
But be warned, I do tell what I am really thinking.
No sugar coating from me. 

What I think now is that the picture is not showing what it really looks like. 
What do you think?

I must add that the bridge itself is great. :thumbsup:


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## David-Stockwell

midlifekrisiz said:


> here are some pics of the bridge after painting black then using artist crayons to weather/rust it.....hope it looks ok


Hi midlifekrisiz, I wasn't too sure if I should write this because it's a little negative but since we have had other communications I got the courage to say what I thought!! I had been following the construction of this girder bridge of yours and I thought you were doing a good job!! That is until you picked up your paint brush!!hwell: The finish on your trestle bridge looked fine but from what I see in the pictures of this girder bridge, it doesn't look like a steel type bridge, and the weathering doesn't look to realistic.

Cheers, Dave


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## midlifekrisiz

David-Stockwell said:


> Hi midlifekrisiz, I wasn't too sure if I should write this because it's a little negative but since we have had other communications I got the courage to say what I thought!! I had been following the construction of this girder bridge of yours and I thought you were doing a good job!! That is until you picked up your paint brush!!hwell: The finish on your trestle bridge looked fine but from what I see in the pictures of this girder bridge, it doesn't look like a steel type bridge, and the weathering doesn't look to realistic.
> 
> Cheers, Dave


ya I figured as much myself as well .....going to add some more grey to it to try and bring back the "steel" somewhat. (first time weathering)


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## midlifekrisiz

I am thinking that I should go with a grey paint first then a bit of rusty color around edges and bottoms where it would pool on the pieces.....try try again


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## David-Stockwell

midlifekrisiz said:


> ya I figured as much myself as well .....going to add some more grey to it to try and bring back the "steel" somewhat. (first time weathering)





midlifekrisiz said:


> I am thinking that I should go with a grey paint first then a bit of rusty color around edges and bottoms where it would pool on the pieces.....try try again


Hello again midlifekrisiz, Hope I'm not being to forward, but I've attached a couple of photo's showing some weathering that I did on a couple of bridges just to give you some ideas!!! you can take it or leave it,:laugh: Just wanted to give you something to think about!!
Cheers, Dave


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## midlifekrisiz

thats awesome Dave ...thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn

You're at the feet of the master bridge builder here, David will steer you right.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You're at the feet of the master bridge builder here, David will steer you right.



But I still think Dave has picture color problems yet?


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> But I still think Dave has picture color problems yet?


Not sure how that affects the quality of his bridges, you'll have to explain that to me.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Not sure how that affects the quality of his bridges, you'll have to explain that to me.


Well.....Dave's post was talking about the color of the weathering job, not the quality of his work.

And if his colors are still off as they were a while back his pictures are not showing the true color they are.
The first picture Dave posted, the color looks alright.
But the second picture has the purple tint, he was having a problem with colors a while back.

Also I said nothing about quality, I said this,
But I still think Dave has picture color problems yet?
That is all I said your reading something that is not there?


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## midlifekrisiz

big ed said:


> Well.....Dave's post was talking about the color of the weathering job, not the quality of his work.
> 
> And if his colors are still off as they were a while back his pictures are not showing the true color they are.
> The first picture Dave posted, the color looks alright.
> But the second picture has the purple tint, he was having a problem with colors a while back.
> 
> Also I said nothing about quality, I said this,
> But I still think Dave has picture color problems yet?
> That is all I said your reading something that is not there?


his pics are good enough for me to get an idea of what he was refering to ...I need to repaint the whole things and start over.


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## David-Stockwell

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You're at the feet of the master bridge builder here, David will steer you right.


Hi gunrunner, I am speechless, and could never find enough words to thank you enough for you gracious comments!!



big ed said:


> Well.....Dave's post was talking about the color of the weathering job, not the quality of his work.
> 
> And if his colors are still off as they were a while back his pictures are not showing the true color they are.
> The first picture Dave posted, the color looks alright.
> But the second picture has the purple tint, he was having a problem with colors a while back.
> 
> Also I said nothing about quality, I said this,
> But I still think Dave has picture color problems yet?
> That is all I said your reading something that is not there?


Hi big ed, I know I have had problems with color in the past,:thumbsdown: and my eyes aren't the same any more either!! But in this particular case I'm confused!! I looked at the second picture, but for the life of me I can't see any purple tint. Would you tell me just what area you are seeing the purple???
Cheers, Dave


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## Carl

David.......stay away from N Scale, your eyes go goofy after a while.


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## Big Ed

What is the lighter color in the second picture Dave?
A gray/blue?

Before you try to redo the whole bridge midlife, just try adding some gray/silver chalk or whatever over it.

Maybe if you blend in some gray/silver it will look better, can't hurt to try if it doesn't work you can redo the whole thing then.

I would still like to see what it looks like in the distance, not close up.
Sometimes when you take the picture so close like that you we won't see what it really looks like.

I know that from first hand from my pictures.


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## Big Ed

By the way midlife you said you used artist crayons, have you ever tried chalk?

You can seal the chalk on after you have what you want.
If you use the chalk and don't like what you did, you just wipe it off with a damp cloth and try again.


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## midlifekrisiz

big ed said:


> What is the lighter color in the second picture Dave?
> A gray/blue?
> 
> Before you try to redo the whole bridge midlife, just try adding some gray/silver chalk or whatever over it.
> 
> Maybe if you blend in some gray/silver it will look better, can't hurt to try if it doesn't work you can redo the whole thing then.
> 
> I would still like to see what it looks like in the distance, not close up.
> Sometimes when you take the picture so close like that you we won't see what it really looks like.
> 
> I know that from first hand from my pictures.


I did take a couple from afar so will post them tonight


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## midlifekrisiz

big ed said:


> By the way midlife you said you used artist crayons, have you ever tried chalk?
> 
> You can seal the chalk on after you have what you want.
> If you use the chalk and don't like what you did, you just wipe it off with a damp cloth and try again.


no havn't tried the chalk yet...found the crayons at staples that had browns, grey and white as well as black and though i would give them a try.....bad idea me thinks lol


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## Carl

Chalks are great. I use the soft pastels made by Artist's Loft. You take the stick and grind it on rough sandpaper to get the powder. Apply with a high quality brush. A little chalk goes a long way. You can wipe it off it is not right. When you get what you want, hit it with hair spray.

WalMart might have or a art supply store.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The only thing I see wrong with David's second picture is probably a bit too light, a bit over exposed. 

I wonder if this is more along the lines of what it actually looks like.


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## David-Stockwell

big ed said:


> What is the lighter color in the second picture Dave?
> A gray/blue?
> 
> 
> Before you try to redo the whole bridge midlife, just try adding some gray/silver chalk or whatever over it.
> 
> Maybe if you blend in some gray/silver it will look better, can't hurt to try if it doesn't work you can redo the whole thing then.
> 
> I would still like to see what it looks like in the distance, not close up.
> Sometimes when you take the picture so close like that you we won't see what it really looks like.
> 
> I know that from first hand from my pictures.


Hi big ed, The lighter color is grey!! The whole bridge was painted that color first. the rust color is a medium brown and there is black up on the top ribbing. The background is a blue cloth in my Photo booth.
Cheers, Dave


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## David-Stockwell

Carl said:


> David.......stay away from N Scale, your eyes go goofy after a while.


No way Carl!!! At least not yet anyway. I've still got that last N scale bridge I built up for sale on EBAY now!! Anyway I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet!:laugh: I may even do another Z scale bridge or two
I got to keep building until some of the people on the forum open their purse strings and buy one of my bridges!!:laugh:
Cheers, Dave 



gunrunnerjohn said:


> The only thing I see wrong with David's second picture is probably a bit too light, a bit over exposed.
> 
> I wonder if this is more along the lines of what it actually looks like.
> 
> View attachment 27247


I don't know how you do it gunrunner, but that picture looks a lot better than mine!!:laugh: Of course I have never been real good at taking pictures. Just kind of mediocre!!
Cheers, Dave


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## Carl

Just a thought. Some place on the internet are a number of great articles regarding the "rust look" using paints. I have used Acrylic Paints in a very limited sense to achieve the "rust look". The colors used are Raw Sienna, Burnt Sienna, Raw Umber and Burnt Umber. Raw Sienna goes on first (it is a light yellowish color), followed by Burnt Sienna (a reddish brown color). The third color is Raw Umber (a dark brown color with what looks like a shade of green). The last color is Burnt Sienna. 

I seem to recall that rust forms around points where metal joins metal or where the original surfacing coating has been comprised. Might want to search the net for pcitures of old metal bridges.


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## Carl

I forget to add that I think a overcoat of paint may give you a new s surface to workk with.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I just adjusted the brightness of the picture, the one you had appeared a bit washed out. How close did I get with the tone?


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## David-Stockwell

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I just adjusted the brightness of the picture, the one you had appeared a bit washed out. How close did I get with the tone?


Hi gunrunner, I think the coloring is perfect!! the picture looks sharper in detail also!! You can come to California and take all my pictures!!:laugh:

Cheers, Dave


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## Carl

n my humble view, this thread has taken quite a 90 degree turn from which it started. Should it not be about helping the modeler rather than a discussion about photographs. It seems to me that photography is a subjective thing....well are try to provide the best photograph of out work, but, I would suspect that many are on the same learning curve that I am on. Out there, someplace, is the first rule of railroad modeling. Can we refocus on helping the modeler.


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## midlifekrisiz

thread hyjack ERP hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn

Carl, the reason I posted the touched-up photo was to see if we could get closer to the proper shading specifically because the photos were pivotal in the discussion. After all, the photo was presented as an example of the process and the results, isn't it on-topic for it to reflect that as accurately as possible?


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## Carl

Again, it was just my thought that more attention was drawn to the photographic. I believe the modeler had stated that the photo was okay by him. No comment on the photo issue by the bridge builder. If I am wrong, and I could well be, I stand corrected.


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## David-Stockwell

midlifekrisiz said:


> ya I figured as much myself as well .....going to add some more grey to it to try and bring back the "steel" somewhat. (first time weathering)





midlifekrisiz said:


> I am thinking that I should go with a grey paint first then a bit of rusty color around edges and bottoms where it would pool on the pieces.....try try again


Yeah, I'm back again and wondering what has happened to this bridge?? I saw you doing other things too but I thought you were going to refinish the girder bridge and I've been checking the post and NOTHING IS HAPPENING??:laugh: When are we going to see a newly painted girder bridge??

Cheers, Dave


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## midlifekrisiz

David-Stockwell said:


> Yeah, I'm back again and wondering what has happened to this bridge?? I saw you doing other things too but I thought you were going to refinish the girder bridge and I've been checking the post and NOTHING IS HAPPENING??:laugh: When are we going to see a newly painted girder bridge??
> 
> Cheers, Dave



well with spring here (finally) I have been getting the atv's ready for riding, getting the garden ready for planting and giving the truck some much needed attention so really haven't had time for choo choo's lately.....I will get to it eventually.


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