# Need Help with AHM/Rivarossi Passenger Car Trucks



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

I have been collecting Southern Crescent AHM/Rivarossi passenger cars. They all have truck-mounted couplers – which I need to navigate my 18” curves. Some came with horn-hook couplers, and I have used KaDee’s conversion kit to convert those to KDs.

Others came with the KaDee conversion already installed. However, all of these were not installed properly – even though they came from different sources. They stick too far out from under the car, and they were glued into place, instead of using the screw that came with the kit. So now they are not adjustable.

I am going to try and dissect the coupler box out of the truck and replace it with a new one. If that fails, I might be in the market for trucks – but not yet.

My immediate problem is how to remove the trucks to work on them. All of these cars have electrical pick-ups, interior lighting, and modeled interiors. The cars that I converted myself had a metal screw holding the truck in place – which was easily removed. The cars with the problems all have what looks like a metal push pin.









I tried gently prying the pin up – it would not budge. I tried to grab the edges of the “pin” with pliers – still no movement. I took the top off of the car and looked down from above. The attachment point is completely covered with the modeled interior. The interior itself seems to be held firmly in place. There is also a light bar across the top, which does work. The light bar is supported by two very stiff wires that hole the light bar up, as well as carry the current. The bottom ends of the stiff wires are attached to rivets in the floor of the interior. All of this looks like it was never meant to be taken apart – except to remove the top to change light bulbs.

So. Is there any way to remove the trucks without permanently destroying the trucks, lighting and interior???


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Do you know how old these are? Maybe you can find an exploded view online. All mine have friction pins holding the trucks.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Nothing to add, but very interested in the answer as well. I just got a similar AHM/Rivarossi a couple weeks ago in B&O colors, that I had thoughts of repainting. Went to take it apart and was faced with your exact situation. I couldn't figure out anything with it either, so I installed a pair of Kadee 505 couplers and decided I liked it in B&O colors! 

You know - I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that it's all riveted together permanently. Don't know why Rivarossi would do that - and I have seen new unpainted versions on ebay, which would suggest that it should be made to be taken apart in order to paint it.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Riverossi trucks can be a pain in the butt. Years ago I picked up a couple of Riverossi passenger cars decorated for the Northern Pacific at a swap meet while on a road trip. When we got home I found out that the over size wheel flanges wouldn't work on my code 70 tail. I had plenty of replacement wheels on hand, but they would not fit into the trucks. I ended up very carefully grinding the flanges down wit a Dremmel tool. 

Recently I got a heck of a deal on a pair of Atlas F-7's decorated for the NP and the seller also sent some passenger cars with them. They were a mix of AHM and Ricerossi cars. 

Some had the truck mounted couplers removed and body mounted Kadee couplers installed. What a mess that train was. My minimum radius is 32" but most curves are a lot broader and I was lucky to be able to make one lap around the layout with the mix of truck mounted and body mounted couplers. 

I have a comolete North Coast Limited train from Walthers and these cars run wit no problems at all. All the Walthers cars have body mounted couplers and I can easily back that train through numerous turnouts into a passenger station. Don't even think about doing that with the Riverossi/AHM cars. It was like trying to push a chain across a parking lot. 

I finally removed all of the truck mounted couplers and changed the cars to body mounted couplers. These must have been newer cars and I was able to replace the plastic wheels with metal wheels without any problems. 

Now, after using many colorful words, the Riverossi/AHM cars run without any problems.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

time warp said:


> Do you know how old these are? Maybe you can find an exploded view online. All mine have friction pins holding the trucks.


Have no idea how old these are. I bought them used -- from several different sellers.

The exploded view that I found at HOseeker.net seems to show the version with the metal screw and socket -- not the one with the metal "pin" shown in the picture. The plastic pins do pull out, but they are only on the cars that do not have internal lighting.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

JNXT 7707 said:


> Nothing to add, but very interested in the answer as well. I just got a similar AHM/Rivarossi a couple weeks ago in B&O colors, that I had thoughts of repainting. Went to take it apart and was faced with your exact situation. I couldn't figure out anything with it either, so I installed a pair of Kadee 505 couplers and decided I liked it in B&O colors!
> 
> You know - I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that it's all riveted together permanently. Don't know why Rivarossi would do that - and I have seen new unpainted versions on ebay, which would suggest that it should be made to be taken apart in order to paint it.


The roof (along with the window "glass") does come off (see the picture in my first post). But the sides and the bottom are permanently attached to each other. It should be possible to mask off the black bottom and trucks and paint the sides. The top can be painted separately (with the "glass" masked off.

My problem is that I want to remove the trucks for rebuild and/pr replacement, but I can't figure out how to remove the metal "pin" shown in the picture.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Chet said:


> Riverossi trucks can be a pain in the butt. Years ago I picked up a couple of Riverossi passenger cars decorated for the Northern Pacific at a swap meet while on a road trip. When we got home I found out that the over size wheel flanges wouldn't work on my code 70 tail. I had plenty of replacement wheels on hand, but they would not fit into the trucks. I ended up very carefully grinding the flanges down wit a Dremmel tool.
> 
> Recently I got a heck of a deal on a pair of Atlas F-7's decorated for the NP and the seller also sent some passenger cars with them. They were a mix of AHM and Ricerossi cars.
> 
> ...


Actually, I am being picky here. My cars run very smoothly with the large-flange wheels, but my track is Code 100. Most of the cars came with metal wheels (about 33" size) -- for electrical pick-up). The baggage car has no lights and came with plastic wheels. I was able to replace them with KD 33" wheels. All of the cars have truck-mounted KDs, which I must stay with since I have 18" radius curves. But, I have backed a 6-car train through curves and turnouts with no problem.

My problem is that the KD coupler conversions were done sloppily (by others), and some of them stick way too far out from under the car -- making the cars too far apart. I want try rebuilding or replacing the KD coupler box on the trucks to fix this problem -- if I could just figure out how to remove the metal "pin" that holds in the coupler (shown in the picture in my first post).


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

If you can access the end of the rivet, it can be drilled out and replaced with a screw and a nut. That is one way to disassemble and reassemble the car.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

thedoc said:


> If you can access the end of the rivet, it can be drilled out and replaced with a screw and a nut. That is one way to disassemble and reassemble the car.


I was thinking about doing this, but the interior is covering the ends of the pin or rivet that holds the trucks on, and the interior itself seems to be permanently attached with rivets too. It's a beautiful car and in such great condition I didn't want to butcher it - there are too many other Rivarossi observation cars out there that easily be disassembled.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Not an expert but I think the metal push pins are just that push pins,they use metal to transfer the power for the lights, under the interior there is another metal spring to power the lights, I think I used a skinny screwdriver under the truck to pry them off.
On one car i soldered my wire to the top of the push pin, then stuck the wire through the hole to get my homemade lights powered up.
If you want to wait for me to confirm this give me some time to dig out the car & double check, maybe one of the old pros can jump in & confirm??? Rich.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

JNXT 7707 said:


> I was thinking about doing this, but the interior is covering the ends of the pin or rivet that holds the trucks on, and the interior itself seems to be permanently attached with rivets too.


In my case, the inside of the metal pin is also covered by the installed interior. The interior seems to be permanently attached to the bottom of the car. There are 3-4 places where it appears that holes in the interior fit over plastic pins attached to the bottom of the car, These pins have been flattened over the hole in the plastic -- perhaps by a heating device. The pins from the bottom and the holes in the interior are now fused into one melted plastic disk -- about 3/16" in diameter.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

RUSTY Cuda said:


> Not an expert but I think the metal push pins are just that push pins,they use metal to transfer the power for the lights, under the interior there is another metal spring to power the lights, I think I used a skinny screwdriver under the truck to pry them off.
> On one car i soldered my wire to the top of the push pin, then stuck the wire through the hole to get my homemade lights powered up.
> If you want to wait for me to confirm this give me some time to dig out the car & double check, maybe one of the old pros can jump in & confirm??? Rich.


Thanks, I would appreciate that. But I am in no hurry. Take your time.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Ok, definitely push pins, took a bit of a pry job to get the new haven one off, the pensy I had off before, pensy on top is the one I soldered the wire to, the new haven was the factory set up.
On those interiors, you can pop them too, if they don't snap back in you can put a drop of glue on.

.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

I know there are some who will bristle when I say this, but it appears that the Rivarossi lighted passenger cars are in the category of "toy trains" that are meant to be put on the track and run without modification or alteration. It's as if Riverossi didn't think their products could be improved. My only question is, why the upgrades over the years?


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

thedoc said:


> I know there are some who will bristle when I say this, but it appears that the Rivarossi lighted passenger cars are in the category of "toy trains" that are meant to be put on the track and run without modification or alteration. It's as if Riverossi didn't think their products could be improved. My only question is, why the upgrades over the years?


Yes indeed doc, the term "toy trains" never fails to bring the bristles out :laugh:

I hear what you are saying, but at the same time I have a few Walthers cars that would compete very well in the category of "PIA to take apart without damaging it". What makes that worse is that they did in fact intend for them to be taken apart (I guess??  )


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

RUSTY Cuda said:


> Ok, definitely push pins, took a bit of a pry job to get the new haven one off, the pensy I had off before, pensy on top is the one I soldered the wire to, the new haven was the factory set up.
> On those interiors, you can pop them too, if they don't snap back in you can put a drop of glue on.


Thanks. I will try again with the screwdriver, when I get the chance. I am still a little concerned about the electrical connection between the screw and the lights, which are riveted (with a stiff wire) to the floor of the interior. We will see what happens.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I did an upgrade with one of those kits with the stiff light bar holders, they are not rivited in . I forget how they went in. I think there's a just another one of those plastic studs they sit over, see if I can get some more pics for you. I still have one car I can not figure how to get the top off????


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

OK may have spoken too soon, found one of my cars that may have been factory interior & lights, all parts are as you described, plastic welded.
the light bar holder is in a different place on the factory one than it is in the add lighting kits, can't see how it's secured. hope you didn't pop anything yet so you can decide weather it's worth it to chance something breaking?????
So the top car is the factory one & the lower car has the aftermarket kit I put in.



this is a complete kit with wheels & everything(hard to find!) anyway they provide a screw ,bushing & nuts to secure all the parts.



Hope this helps & I did not lead you astray!  Rich.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

RUSTY Cuda said:


> Hope this helps & I did not lead you astray! Rich.


No going astray. You have been a big help. The top car is exactly what I've got (different interior). I did succeed in getting the truck off. I had been trying to pry up the head of the metal push pin with a small screwdriver. The pin was was not budging, and the screwdriver was starting to do damage to the wipers.

But I was able to use a medium sized screwdriver and get in between the bolster and the truck and pry off the truck and pin together.

Then I was able to remove the KaDee replacement box, clean the glue off and reinstall it with a screw, which makes it adjustable. In the photo below, the front 2 cars show how far the improperly-installed add-on coupler boxes stuck out -- making a huge gap between the cars. The back 2 cars show how close the cars are once the coupler boxes have been installed correctly. And yes, those 2 cars go around 18" radius curves with out the bodies touching.

Thanks for all your help.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Here is the picture that I forgot to attach to my previous post.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

As for the lights...

(1) Once I removed the metal pin, and looked up the hole, there was a piece of brass under the interior that the push pin pushes up against to transfer the current from the wheels to the lights.

(2) While I had the truck off, I polished the pickups and bent them slightly for better contact. Now, when I run this car it never flickers, even across turnouts.

Someday, when I have nothing else to do on the layout (ha...), I might get around to replacing the lights on these cars with LEDs and batteries, so that I can remove the wipers and reduce the rolling resistance. Plus, the lights would not vary with speed, and they would stay on in the station. I've also got a box of unpainted sitting figures that I would like to paint and add to the cars.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I have mixed body mount on some & truck mount on others, been thinkin about getting the diaphrams for between the cars , now I have to check on the distance between cars on the different style mounts. 
I did a couple of cars with led light kits, the light is much whiter than the orig lights.
but mine are track powered. Rich.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

MtRR75 said:


> Here is the picture that I forgot to attach to my previous post.
> 
> View attachment 234962


Those are really nice looking cars :smilie_daumenpos:


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## evolocomotive (May 23, 2016)

I know I'm late to the party, but throw them all away and buy Walthers or Rapido and call it a day. Both have electrical p/u's on them.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

evolocomotive said:


> I know I'm late to the party, but throw them all away and buy Walthers or Rapido and call it a day. Both have electrical p/u's on them.


LOL is that all there is to it? :laugh:

Nice looking trucks but to re-truck the whole train might get a little pricey


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. But I kind of like resurrecting and updating older rolling stock. Getting the layout itself completed is a much longer-term project. Working with rolling stock gives me a short-term sense of accomplishment.


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## evolocomotive (May 23, 2016)

JNXT 7707 said:


> LOL is that all there is to it? :laugh:
> 
> Nice looking trucks but to re-truck the whole train might get a little pricey


Yes, its pricy, but they run 1000% better. I'm in the process of updating my old Lambert brass passengers cars to modern (and correct) trucks.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

This is long, and probably of little interest to most. But I wanted to document how I converted the AHM/Rivarossi trucks from the original push-pin mounting to a screw mounting. What I have learned might be useful to others. I am far from an expert in model train repairs. This is just my observations and solutions.

TYPES OF TRUCK CONNECTIONS IN AHM/RIVAROSSI PASSENGER TRUCKS.

(1) If there are no lights, the car came with plastic wheels, and the truck was held in place by a plastic push pin. See picture below.









If there are lights, the cars came with metal wheels and electrical pick-ups. I this case there were at least two different ways the trucks were mounted.

(2) Originally the trucks on lighted cars were held in place by a metal push pin with vertical ridges near the tip. This head of the pin made contact with the wheel pick-ups and the tip made contact with a piece of brass (soldered to a wire) inside the car, under the interior floor. See picture below. This brass contact is visible if you look down the hole after removing the push pin. These are the trucks that I converted to a screw mounting.









(3) In later models, the simple metal push pin was replaced with a two-parted metal connection. The main part is probably just a modified metal push pin (although I can’t be sure without risking destroying my car). There is a small screw attached to the head of the push pin. Removing this screw allows you to easily remove and replace the trucks, so no modifications are needed. See picture below.









REMOVING METAL PUSH-PIN TRUCKS

To remove a truck, I used a medium-sized, flat-head screwdriver to gently pry between the truck and the bolster. It did take quite a bit of prying to get the truck off. Using a small screwdriver and prying under the pin head did NOT work. I would have mangled the electrical pick-ups before the pin would have come out.

REPLACING METAL PUSH-PINS WITH SCREWS

Replacing the truck was more difficult than removing it. I first tried to push the pin back in. I discovered that, no matter how hard I pushed, about half of the time, the pin would not go in as far as it had before. This meant that (a) the pin would not contact the brass pick-up under the interior floor, hence no lights, and (b) sometimes the truck would come loose.

My solution to this problem was to replace the pin with a 3/8” 6-32 pan-head Philips screw. The screw fit perfectly into the hole in the car bottom, tapping the hole as it was inserted. But there were two problems with the screw. (1) The pan head interfered with the axle of the middle wheel set, and (2) the 3/8” screw was a little too long. Both problems were solved using a large file and a pair of needle-nosed pliers (to hold the screw while filing).

I chose pan-head screws because of their relatively flat head. But it was still too high. I found that I had to file off about 1/3 of the head height. Enough of the Phillips slot remained that I could still use a screwdriver on the screw. I am not sure that slot-head screws would have worked.

The problem of the screw being a little too long was trickier to solve. The goal was to make the screw just long enough to put a little pressure on the brass pick-up that is attached to the floor of the interior (where you can’t see it). If I turned the screw in too far, it pushed too hard on the bottom of the interior and knocked the interior loose (Yep, I did that once, and had to re-glue it down.)

The solution was to insert the screw, but stop well before it made contact with the brass pick-up under the interior. Then I checked the resistance with a meter (one lead on each truck screw) and got “no connection”. Then I turned the screw an additional 1/2 turn, and checked again. I kept doing this until I got a connection (an actual resistance reading on the meter). Then I turned it one more 1/2 turn to make sure that the connection was solid.

BUT, the head end of the screw was still sticking out too far -- interfering with the center axle. So I removed the screw, and filed off some of it tip (and more off of the screw head, if I could do so without losing the Phillips slot). Then I repeated the whole process. I had to do this several times until I got to where the tip of the screw was gently pressing on the brass pickup under the interior floor, AND the head of the screw was in far enough (and filed thin enough) so that it did not interfere with the center axle. See picture below. The middle wheel set has been removed for the picture, but it does clear the screw head. The original push-pin is laying on the foam cradle.









P.S. #1 If you are going to do this modification, do one truck at a time. If you disconnect both trucks, it is more difficult to do the resistance measurements to determine the screw length.

P.S. #2 If you have the cars with interiors, but no lights, use 1/4 inch 6-32 pan-head Phillips screws -- if you can find them. If not, you can file down 3/8 inch screws, as I did, to avoid pushing up on the interior floor.

P.S. #3 If you have the cars with plastic wheels (with or without interiors), replace the center wheel set with a different wheel set that has a smaller axle. (The original plastic, wheel-set axles are very thick and will interfere with the screw head.) Use 33 inch wheels. The original wheels are actually slightly smaller than 33 inch, but the difference will not affect performance, as there is enough slop between the truck and the wheel set to cover the difference. I used either Accurail plastic wheels or Kadee 33 inch metal wheels.


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

The age of these cars are a range. The AHM are the oldest. Most passenger cars sold under the AHM banner were Rivarossi. The initial ones are from the 1960's. Those were sold with interiors & lighting. They were not made to be taken apart, beyond taking the roof off. As time went on, the costs increased and the lighting became a add on kit. In this case the parts had to be removable. Thus the the construction and the attachments changed appropriately. Rivarossi was selling these same cars in Europe, the boxes had Italian writing. 
AHM went under and was replaced by IHC. Again most of the passenger cars were made by Rivarossi. By this time the interiors were also sold as addons. The resulting cars are very light and did not roll as well. The wheels and axles went from metal to plastic in this evolution.
These cars were made well into the 1990's. Later IHC cars were not Rivarossi, they had a falling out. During this same period, Rivarossi made these cars under their name as well. In the 90's or a little earlier, the Rivarossi models started showing up in the US, competing with the IHC models. 
It is hard to tell how old the car is. The shells did not change much for 30 years. The trucks, wheels and other features did. Early trucks were metal. They changed to plastic fairly early, so metal trucks are rare. 
As with Most early HO models, they were made to work on 18 inch sectional track. This as accomplished with the weight, deep flanges and long truck mounted couplers. The early cars were fairly robust runners. The cheapened cars were not. 
Your cars look great. I am a NP fan and have several Loewy and pre 1954 scheme cars. I also have some Rapido and Walthers cars. It is the difference in manufacturing technologies. The cost differential is also significant.
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for the info. I knew some of that background, but not all of it. My cars are all AHM/Rivarossi.

I mostly model freight, but I could not resist the Crescent Limited cars, because (1) I live near where the Crescent Limited travelled, (2) I have ridden on the Amtrak version (the Crescent) -- the only passenger train I have ever ridden on (other than excursions), and (3) I like the green color. Since I model the 1920s (mostly Clinchfield), I have pretty much a black and box-car red layout. The Crescent Limited was a way to add some color.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

Little confused what the issues here are, if the pins are glued in, drill them out, use a slightly smaller drill than the hole then scrape out the remainder. For the adapter coupler coupler, if glued down, dremel tool it out, forget the installed one, and buy new. Do it right the next time. You can use a wood screw, (not a flat head) clip off the pointy end, you don't want it piercing into the body.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

dinwitty said:


> Little confused what the issues here are, if the pins are glued in, drill them out, use a slightly smaller drill than the hole then scrape out the remainder. For the adapter coupler coupler, if glued down, dremel tool it out, forget the installed one, and buy new. Do it right the next time. You can use a wood screw, (not a flat head) clip off the pointy end, you don't want it piercing into the body.


The pins that I was removing were the ones made of steel -- embedded in the plastic bottom of the car. So drilling was not an option. See the pictures in post #28. The 2nd picture shows the head of the pin that I was removing. The 4th picture shows the pin removed, laying on the foam cradle. I chose to replace the pins with 6-32 screws, because they exactly fit into the existing hole, and threaded themselves into the plastic as they were inserted.

I bought these cars used. The reason that I needed remove the trucks was to remove and remount the improperly installed KaDee coupler replacement kits.

Does this clarify things?


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