# To "B" or not to "B", That is the Question



## Guest (Mar 29, 2016)

I am a big fan of F units. It goes back to the 2343 Sante Fe's that I received as a Christmas gift when I was just a kid. Those double A's looked very cool, but what made this set even better was the addition of the B units. Now we are talking super cool.

The love of the F units has never left me. When I got back into our hobby and started to add additional F units, the B's were a given. You just can't beat the ABBA combo (some of you go further and add even more B units). So all of my F units have two B units, one powered and one un-powered.

The latest addition is this powered B unit that goes with the new Lionel Wabash Blue Bird set. What a nice looking passenger train with the ABBA up front followed by what will be seven passenger cars (six now with the Station Sounds Diner coming in June).

How about you? Are you a fan of the B units? Show us photos of your F units with B's included.

View attachment 163801


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Brian I am also a fan. CP F3s, Post War SF has a B. K-Line NYC has a B, MKT has a B, Modern Scale Santa Fe has multiple Bs. I think I am up to 5 but would have to check.

Pete
"If you can count it, you don't have much" Bunky Hunt


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm 50/50 on B units, Brian. I love AA F units. I think they are the most attractive diesels. The only reason I may not have any B units is because my layout is small and an ABA set of F units pulling 4 passenger cars or 6 freight cars looks silly to me. If I had a big enough layout to run 15-20 car freight trains I would definitely have B units. I had a Lionel F3 ABA set from Christmas 1954 that was stolen in the '90s.  :smilie_daumenneg:


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2016)

Here is another example, the NS tuxedo paint scheme.

View attachment 163857


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

Love EMD F3s and F7s in any configuration. I own AAs, ABAs, and one ABBA. I like running them as ABs as well. My next ABBA is on order and is a FT demonstrator set...my first FT.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I don’t have a whole lot of covered wagons and only one B. B units sure do make the train look nice. I was thinking about ordering some of the Reading F7s that MTH is coming out with this summer and weighing whether or not I want a B unit. On the con side, I’m not sure if I want to spend the extra bucks for a B. And if I get a B, that’s one less car I can fit on sidings. On the plus side, B units sure do make the train look nice


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

This site is a bad influence on my wallet. Lee Willis made me buy a bunch of diecast cars. GRJ made me buy a bunch of Menards boxcars, and now Brian (with that NS ABBA) is trying to make me buy not one, but two B units.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

Lehigh74 said:


> This site is a bad influence on my wallet. Lee Willis made me buy a bunch of diecast cars. GRJ made me buy a bunch of Menards boxcars, and now Brian (with that NS ABBA) is trying to make me buy not one, but two B units.


don't you know,
any day you wake up above ground is a good day to buy a train


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2016)

There's more.

View attachment 163865


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

This is my set of Lionel Western Pacific F3's. A definite favorite of mine, especially after I modified them with shorter couplers between the units to bring them closer together with the diaphragms almost touching. The sounds could be a little better since these are the earlier TMCC units, but they look and run great.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Here is my K-Line set. Too bad more manufacturers don't offer different pilot configurations like K-Line offered.










Pete


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2016)

santafe158 said:


> This is my set of Lionel Western Pacific F3's. A definite favorite of mine, especially after I modified them with shorter couplers between the units to bring them closer together with the diaphragms almost touching. The sounds could be a little better since these are the earlier TMCC units, but they look and run great.
> View attachment 163873


There were amongst my favorites when I was active in three rail. JD Trains did a special run of the NP F3s. My only regret was not getting all of the locomotives powered. Two units, with the B units as dummies, would only pull about 20-25 freight cars comfortably. These are all equipped with Atlas couplers, so they close couple quite nicely. 









F7 consist in weenie scale.









But there is something to be said about the absence of a "B" unit. Of all my F unit combinations, I prefer a simple A-A set. F3 A-A consist in weenie scale. 









Regards, 
GNNPNUT


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2016)

Jake, I have the WP set as well and they are beauties.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2016)

Can't leave the Sante Fe out of this.

View attachment 163913


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

My favorite set of Fs has no B unit...


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## TGP (Sep 6, 2015)

WHY SURE ******* I'm just B B , B ing along, for a song!!!


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## TGP (Sep 6, 2015)

Did somebody say 23 - 43 hut hut , and he's 

to the 10 to the 5 . Touch d---, wait wrong hobby, sorry


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)




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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

Well F and B you too!  Post War style


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

What great pictures. :appl: I love hood units, especially E8s and the addition of B units makes them look even more cool  

Here are my Pennsy E8s









Sharks can have B units too.









Even Beefs have B units


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi Brian, Thanks for starting this thread on my most enjoyable diesels. Below are 4 pictures. (1) K-Line Midnight Chief F3 ABA #2333 with Lionel's Santa Fe F3 AB #16, (2) Lionel's Santa Fe F3 ABBA #18, (3) K-line Reading F3 ABA #264, and (4) the first TMCC Lionel Santa Fe F3 AB #2343.


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## ogaugenut (Dec 27, 2012)

Great. Now I have B Unit envy.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

PatKn said:


> Sharks can have B units too.
> 
> View attachment 164145


Wonderful photos, Pat!
Love the Baldwin Sharks. Looks very cool as an AB in your photo.

I have a Williams by Bachmann ABBA Demonstrator Shark set. I barely found the two B units for it...looked everywhere, managed to locate one and finally had to buy one in PRR and get a shell from Williams parts. With a slight modification (PRR version sat higher), I got my demo ABBA.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Well since this thread is now showing B units other than EMD Fs, here's an example of an ALCO FB, in an ABA set. Although Santa Fe never had ALCO Fs, only Ps, I still like this Williams configuration pulling my Williams Crown Addition 5-car aluminum Santa Fe set.

Although the cars are not visible in this shot, it's an all Williams train. The twin motored FA runs as smooth as glass and this train just glides around the layout effortlessly and trouble-free. I think an ALCO ABA F set is just as eye-pleasing as any EMD F set, especially in Santa Fe warbonnet livery, even though Santa Fe never had ALCO Fs.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

By the way, Brian Shakespeare, this thread was a good idea along with its clever title.  :appl:


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## Tucgary (Sep 21, 2015)

Brian, ever since joining the forums almost 3 years ago I have been in awe of the beautiful ABBA passenger trains you members have posted.
I am on a small layout and small budget but I have just completed buying an A dummy unit to complete my ABA Santa Fe.

The little Lionel 8020 has enough power to pull this load around on my 027 track with 042 curves.
I am very happy with it. Tucgary


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

How bout modern B units? Probably the last production B units (in real life) we will ever see made. 









F7 Bs









F3 Bs


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Tucgary: Interesting layout and backdrop you have there. :thumbsup:


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Some more Alcos.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2016)

OK, some ALCos.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2016)

Great stuff guys, wonderful photos.


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## TGP (Sep 6, 2015)

Yea it is almost like son hollering at DAD, don't leave me 
but aint nothing like including RMT's


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Wow, Doug! Love the last photo of the weathered units. You really improved the 3rd Rail models.

I'm not really a diesel man but I'd like to own some UP hood units, especailly an "A/B" combo. If 3rd Rail offers PA/B units I may bite!


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## steam chaser (Feb 21, 2011)

Very nice,:smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

A few of the F-units & Alcos on the Seattle & Yakima RR

Bill


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

B units make the train look like it is heavy and make it look longer, I like them, only have Williams F units but 3 out of units in my ABBA set up have motors (6 in total) and the dummy unit has a Electric Railway sound system.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Wow! Great photos of impressive motive power sets just keep on comin'.

Wood: Those are nice shots of industrial sections and locomotives you have.

gnnpnut: That's the coolest set of Great Northern ALCO Fs I've ever seen. Are they made by Lionel, MTH, Atlas, or what? Very nice.


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## Kmac (Sep 19, 2015)

What a great thread! Really some nice pictures. I only have one set of disels with a B unit now, they are Williams by Bachmann F7s with a B unit in Great Northern paint. I did get another set of Williams by Bachmann F7s in Lackawanna to go with some WBB Lackawanna passenger cars I have and I will be getting the B unit for them in the near future. I hope to add many more sets of diesels with B units in the future. Again great topic!

Keaton.


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## Tucgary (Sep 21, 2015)

Reading this thread is like opening a catalog! 
Beautiful pictures everyone!
Tucgary


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## bluecomet400 (Sep 13, 2015)

Most of my trains are prewar, but I do like B-units and have 2 of them in my collection(both NYC). However, if there is such a thing as a prewar Lionel B-unit, there would definitely "B" several of them in my train room.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

B units Be Good.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Most definately!
Especially those Lionel PWC B Units with FatBoy Speakers and Super Bass!


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2016)

Love the photo Forrest. Those WP's go nicely with with the CZ passenger car set.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Forrest, Your B units look super and the layout detailing is impressive. Great detail. I like those elevations, abutments and weathering.... Very nicely done.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Sorry to be late to this party but having noticed that although Brian asked for "F" B units there are at least a few interlopers of other kinds, I thought I'd add mine to the mix.

This is the motive power for my Lionel ABS Texas Special set. The A units are from Sunset 3rd Rail and are actually the Frisco, not MKT, version, but I'm not fussed about that.

Neither railroad had B units on the Texas Special but that did not stop me getting one when I discovered a Williams version by accident on the Western Depot website.

This is a dummy B unit which came as an empty shell and no track power pickups on the trucks. So it has had the frame and trucks completely reconstructed with Lionel parts. It also has an ERR sound system and dummy engine control board. No smoke though because I find the 3rd Rail smoke system a little too fiddly for my purposes:









As you can see the coupler shanks, which are Lionel parts, are a little too long but I can't find replacements for them that actually fit the Lionel frame.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

HarborBelt1970 said:


> As you can see the coupler shanks, which are Lionel parts, are a little too long but I can't find replacements for them that actually fit the Lionel frame.





That's a nice looking set. I've liked the Texas Special scheme since I first saw a Lionel model in one of the I Love Toy Trains video when I was younger.

I'm not sure if it would work in your case, but I shortened up the gap between my Lionel TMCC F3's with short shank dummy couplers from another model Lionel made. I can't remember what model it was (I want to say the older sharknose engines?), but just a little grinding on the coupler shank mount was needed for clearance, but it was a relatively easy fit and really helped out the appearance.

Unfortunately I have to tell you to look for the how to thread on OGR which is where I got the information and part numbers. I think the thread was specifically F units, but I don't see why it wouldn't also work for you if the measurements work out.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2016)

Andy, I love the idea of the B unit for the E units. Nice conversion.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

santafe158 said:


> I'm not sure if it would work in your case, but I shortened up the gap between my Lionel TMCC F3's with short shank dummy couplers from another model Lionel made. I can't remember what model it was (I want to say the older sharknose engines?), but just a little grinding on the coupler shank mount was needed for clearance, but it was a relatively easy fit and really helped out the appearance.
> 
> Unfortunately I have to tell you to look for the how to thread on OGR which is where I got the information and part numbers. I think the thread was specifically F units, but I don't see why it wouldn't also work for you if the measurements work out.


I think I know that thread, it was about using the short dummy couplers from the VL Centipede to close the gap between F3 engines. I'll have another look at it, thanks very much.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

HarborBelt1970 said:


> I think I know that thread, it was about using the short dummy couplers from the VL Centipede to close the gap between F3 engines. I'll have another look at it, thanks very much.


You have a better memory than I do. But yes, that's the one. I think the thread was called "closing the gap" or something like that now that you mention it.

I looked back at my receipt from the order from that project (online ordering and emailed receipts are quite handy) and the part numbers I ordered are listed below. I did a B unit (both ends) and the rear couplers on two F3 A units, so I ordered four of each part.

6304678055 COUPLER / NON-WORKING / CENTIPEDE

6SP8238127	COUPLER T-BAR / PLASTIC

6108082212	C-CLIP / .116" ID x .020" THK

6SP8238134	SPRING 1/4" DIAM x 7/16" HGHT x .024"

6109899035	WASHER / FIBER / .190"ID x .390"OD x .032"THK

6109899028	WASHER / .206" ID x .314" OD x .028" THK


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

Brian.......since my 1st Lionel set was the New Haven AB F3 from 1958, B units units are the only way to go!
Peter


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

One of my favorite AB combinations, the AT&SF Yellow Bonnets. This is the Premier version that came with the ABA but I very seldom run the other A unit.

Bill


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

seayakbill said:


> One of my favorite AB combinations, the AT&SF Yellow Bonnets.
> 
> NICE! :thumbsup:


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Absolutely beautiful!


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

Kinda refreshing to see the yellow version instead of the red.

Beautiful setup there!


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## Hudson J1e (Nov 19, 2015)

Yeah, those look really nice!


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2016)

Love the Yellow Warbonnets, Bill.


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## Richard E (Apr 30, 2016)

I prefer to run my freight covered wagons as A-B-A And my passenger E-Units as A-B sets








These are Rail King FA-2s FB-2s I repainted as B&Os early all blue scheme. The second B-unit is in original colors for contrast.


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## Richard E (Apr 30, 2016)

Here is a Trio of MTH F-7s crossing Afton creek.


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## Richard E (Apr 30, 2016)

I am sill learning how to navigate and post pictures on this site.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Nice looking covered wagons Richard...and the layout looks not too shabby either.


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## Guest (May 3, 2016)

Wonderful photos, Richard.


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## Guest (May 3, 2016)

Here is a photo from last Christmas Day with our new 3rd Rail F7 Yellow Warbonnet combination. Can't wait to get this on the new layout.

View attachment 177977


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## Guest (May 3, 2016)

Fabulous picture, Richard. I love those B&O F units.


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## Guest (May 3, 2016)

Brian and Bill, the yellow bonnets are beauties. All the varieties of Santa Fe F and E units are very attractive. It almost makes me wish I was a western railroad fan but I love the New York Central.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Brian, Your new layout will be spectacular with that Sunset model pulling your K-Line passenger trains. The detail is surely amazing.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

I have 2 sets of Williams, Crown Edition F-7's. One is a Santa Fe ABA, both A units powered with matching passenger cars and the other is a Reading railroad ABBA set, only one A unit is powered, not sure what I am going to use with them as yet they may pull the Reading Company King Coal set I have.

Lee Fritz


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

*BRIAN MADE ME DO IT...*

…and I’m glad he did. After seeing this post and all the great B units, I ordered 2 A units and 2 B units from the MTH 2016 V1 catalog. They came in yesterday. They sure look nice with a passenger consist behind them. I got just one powered A unit, but that seems to handle the 3 dummies and 6 passenger cars with no problem. The ABBA and the 6 cars just fit on the siding.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2016)

Good move, Lehigh. They look super.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

*To &quot;B&quot; or not to &quot;B&quot;, That is the Question*










Notice the repair job I need to do on this B.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Ouch! Looks like it fell off the ceiling central.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

No, when I was installing the BCR in the A unit, I got curious to see what was in the B unit. The screw holding the shell to the base was so tight, the mounting post broke free taking what you see with it. What a waste, there was just the cable from end to end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Lehigh, That Reading set looks great! :thumbsup: The Pennsy set in the background looks like it needs a B Unit. 

Mark, GN is my favorite passenger consist. It's a shame that the B is damaged.  A little touch-up and you won't hardly notice.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

MTH PS3's B&M.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

PatKn said:


> Lehigh, That Reading set looks great! :thumbsup: The Pennsy set in the background looks like it needs a B Unit.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark, GN is my favorite passenger consist. It's a shame that the B is damaged.  A little touch-up and you won't hardly notice.




Thank you Pat! You are right about the touch up. I didn't even notice it when I glued the mounting post back and put it back together. I was taking photos of it for Keaton Mac, when I first saw it. He had interest in purchasing the set, then said he would pass, before I was able to tell him of the damage.

Keaton lives about 50 miles from me, and we have gotten together twice, all because of MTF. Another shameless plug for the forum.

I'm keeping the set now and have a PS3 upgrade kit for it


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