# decoder wiring clarification



## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

Ok I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything. I want to replace the stock Bachmann decoder in this n scale 44 tonner. Sorry if this sounds dump, this will only be my 4th decoder install.








The stock decoder








And I would like to install a digitrax plug and play z scale decoder. The dimensions seem prefect. I think all I have to do is insulate the frame and the board with kylon tape, adhere the new decode with foam double side tape then just solder the positive and negative wires from the motor to the correct tabs on the decoder. Then all should work, does this seem correct?
Z scale decoder I plan on using in the 44 tonner
I just don't want to kill a 30 dollar decoder for no reason.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Why the decoder switch??Is there something wrong with the one in it?


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

Sadly it just seems the engine should run better. It acts jerky at all speeds at random times. I've tried adjusting CV values to improve slow operations. Sometimes the thing works like a champ other it only works if you slap the side of the jukebox. I really think there is a bad solder somewhere. I've noticed that if I'm running 50 percent power, kill power to stop, change directions, the engine surges in the old direction before jerking into action in the correct direction. 
The other reason is I can not accesses the cv's to dim the nano lights for some reason. The blue is bad enough, I would be happy if I could tone the voltage down some. 
I'm hoping a new decoder will solve both in one shot. If anything it is not from dirty track or pickup wheels.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

i don't own that particular engine, but that jerking on reversal can very well be gears taking up the mechanical slack. then again i had poor lack with bachmann decoders before so... 

i think instalation should be straight forward decoder replacement (this is DCC engine already).


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I have two locos with Bachmann decoders. One with with the factory decoder, and the other was a DC conversion with an aftermarket decoder. The stock one is iffy at best. I have to run the loco up to 50% to smooth it out and every so often it'll just stop, then slowly start up again. Doenst do it on one spot of track, just whenever. I've tried cleaning the wheels and contacts, as well as checking the solder joints. It just isnt a good decoder. The other loco with the aftermarket decoder works flawlessly.


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks guys, it is a shame really. Bachmann made a nice little engine with this one for a fantastic price. In the end it leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth when dealing with sporadic problems. 
That is a good point Anton. It could just possibly be the decoder's poor design to register the subtle changes or disburse extra voltage in commands quick enough.
I just keep second guessing myself. If I buy a hard wired decoder, I would be doing a custom install and taxing my soldering skills. It just seems to easy using a plug and play, that was not meant for the unit but fits and only have to deal with two wires. Man I wish we were doing a HO layout were things are a tad bigger to work on.


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

Well case closed on this one. 
I started by rewiring the darn thing, with new 28 gauge wire and the stock decoder. There was no change in performance at all. Thinking maybe a messed up a solder I took it apart again and played with everything. The board always received power. Bachmann's pick up method for this engine work very well. I thought their wiper design was kind of cheap but found it hard to make it not work. The motor ran so beautiful on a 1.6 volt battery, it just purred at a steady pace. I put it all back together and it still ran like a Bachmann  I pulled off the decoder and wire nutted the leads to run on DC  What a great little runner this thing was on DC. I went online and ordered the decoder, I wanted to try last year.
Since there was no forum last night I sat down and went to work. I know my soldering skills are not the prettiest but there are no cold joints. Pic is the new decoder (DZ123M0) installed with the old one laying on the side. I did have to retaped everything tighter to get the shell on and I trimmed those Irish Pinents too. It runs so much better now. When I kill power it stops, when I change directions there is no pause. I just wish I did this sooner. Even the headlights look better now :thumbsup:


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

Xnats said:


> I know my soldering skills are not the prettiest but there are no cold joints.


XNats - If you were able to put it back together AND it worked...you did GREAT! I have a hard enough time working with the HO scale stuff....and I'm very experienced with a soldering set, to be able to work on N and Z scale stuff is pretty much beyond my abilities.



Xnats said:


> I trimmed those Irish Pinents too.


I have not heard this term since I got out of the Navy!!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

:appl::appl::appl::smilie_daumenpos:
Any decoder install you can walk away from (with it working) is a good one!
Come on don't stop there, go for sound too!
Now you know why everyone says stock bachmann decoders are...well...JUNK!


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

lol thanks guys. I pass on the sound though As much as I would love to sit down and try to get it to fit, the extra cost stops me  Good sound chips are pricey  My next project is to find a cheap steamer and add wiper pickups and a decoder. Then maybe sound cuz it sure would be nice  one day :laugh:


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

I am very encouraged by this thread, as I have a couple Bachmann's I would like to swap decoders on. My factory DCC decoders do indeed seem to be junk. I am so puzzled though, mostly because they worked quite well for a good amount of time. Mine is doing what cabledawg's did. I am glad to see that if I swap out for a different brand decoder that it should work well! Thanks for the thread, Stan...glad you got yours running better!

Chad


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

mr_x_ite_ment said:


> I am very encouraged by this thread, as I have a couple Bachmann's I would like to swap decoders on. My factory DCC decoders do indeed seem to be junk.
> 
> Chad


Hi Chad....just a cautionary note....before you spend the money on replacement decoders, do the basics.....Clean the track and wheels, check connections inside the engine. While you've got it open check the gears and lubricate if necessary. (With older locos its not a bad idea to clean the old stuff out first).

Its a bit time consuming but I would hate to advise you to buy the decoders only to find out you had a cleaning issue. 

Jim


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the advice! I have thoroughly cleaned track and wheels. That always solved the problem before. I have looked at the connections too. I could try a little lubrication in the gear area, although I have been trying to lubricate them from time to time as well. I would shoot some plastic-friendly lube in w/o taking the shell off. Maybe it wasn't getting where it should. I will look at it some more...thanks Jim!

Chad


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