# Lionel Service & Repair Manual, an honest review



## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

I recently purchased the Lionel Train Service and Repair Manuals CD set. Here is my review of this product!

A little about myself; I am a LCCA and TCA member and have been a train collector for almost 20 years. Though I have not had a chance to build a layout yet, I have been collecting mostly Lionel Postwar trains and accessories. I also collect trains and anything with Frisco Railroad on them and recently started collection the Atlas-O billboard boxcars!

This item comes in a two CD set and believe me when this site says there are over 2000 pages of blueprints and 400 diagrams, there not blowing smoke! Though I’ve not viewed every file, I’ve scanned over most of them and there’s loads of good and interesting information on them. All the repair manuals, catalogs and instruction manuals are photocopies of all the pages of original period Lionel manuals and service bulletins. It even includes parts lists for some of the products produced until 1986. Everything is easy to read and the format is easy to use. There is even a bookmark index you can click on, on the left side of each file to help locate specific files within each section. 

Using the Adobe zoom feature, you can zoom in for closer detail and you’ll need to, to be able to read some of the text and see the detail. You can also print out the pages you need and bring to your workbench to conduct your repairs, which I highly recommend if your computer is not on the bench! There’s enough information here for the beginner or the advanced collector to use and enjoy, no matter what era you’re into!

The instruction manuals included are excellent resources for set-up, wiring and operating postwar locomotives and accessories. They also show original track plans, layout ideas and designs and how to’s on layout building including scenery tips!

There’s more for the Prewar enthusiast than anything else. In the 1930-1940 Service Manual (which includes some info that carries over into some Postwar items) includes instructions and testing for the Electronic Set, instructions and testing procedures for the 5C, 5D, & 5F Bench Testers, repairing trucks, directions for assembling the Bild-A-Loco, servicing ZW, KW, Z, V and a bunch of the smaller transformers like the popular 1033; also repairing track switches and operating track sections! Did you know there was a coupler adapter made to couple older Prewar type couplers with the later knuckle couplers? I didn’t, until I found it in here!

The prewar catalogs are if nothing else, fascinating reading as well as reference material, showing some early history of the Lionel Company. It gives you a look into the past at how they advertised during that era, by using product comparison and durability also showing early 20th century pricing. What I also found interesting was the early transformers using a light bulb screw socket to access electricity instead of a receptacle plug. Along with the various buildings, accessories and even Lionel produced scenic layouts, many items are not often seen at train shows.

Below is a list of files for each disc. These are the actual file titles:

Contents of Disc #1 
1915-1942 Numbers List 
1930-1940 Parts List 
1930-1940 Service Manual 
1946 Instructions 
1949 Instructions 
1970-1986 Diesels 
1970-1986 Misc.
1970-1986 Motors
1970-1986 Rolling Assc.
1970-1986 Steam
1970-1986 Tenders

Contents of Disc #2

1902 Catalog............ 1953 Catalog
1903 Catalog............ 1953 Instructions 
1923 Catalog............ 1956 Instructions
1929 Catalog............ 1964 Catalog 
1930 Catalog............ 1965 Catalog
1932 Catalog............ Chronology
1933 Catalog............ Grading Standards
1934 Catalog............ Lionel-Pictures
1936 Catalog............ Quiz-jr.
1937 Catalog............ Railroad-History
1938 Catalog............ Santa-Fe-Diesels
1939 Catalog............ Santa-Fe-Loco 
1940 Catalog............ Scales-Gauges
1941 Catalog............ Union Pacific2
1946 Instructions...... Union Pacific
1952 Catalog

Both Discs include Adobe-Acrobat set-up to use to view the discs, if your computer does not have the program!

On the negative side, I was not impressed with the packaging the discs came in. I expected nice plastic cases (or case) with the attractive label printed on it like the one in the ad! Instead, they shipped me the two discs in paper sleeves in a bubble packed envelop. Blah! 

Also the ad sort of leads you to believe that there are loads of step-by-step tutorials on disassembly restoration and reassembly of most all of the Lionel products produced in this time frame. That’s not the case! Though they didn’t falsely advertise and there are definitely some disassembly and repair instructions for some of the products, not all are covered. I’ve seen this advertised from marketers as complete as if it had all the information to repair all Lionel trains produced up to 1986, but in fact there are a lot of products or procedures not covered, especially Postwar engines, as I found out quickly that there was no instructions on how to change the smoke unit in my 671 Postwar Steamer, and that’s after looking over ‘all’ the repair and instruction manuals included in this set! The 1970-1986 files are exploded diagrams and parts lists only, with little to no repair instructions, though much of their construction can be compared with Postwar and even late Prewar! 

I personally was a bit disappointed with the lack of content of information that ‘I’ wanted and expected to receive with this CD set. I have worked on all kinds of machinery in my jobs and on the farm and I have had to use many maintenance and repair manuals to do those jobs and know what a good detailed manual is! Needless to say, some of information that I wanted from this set was not there. What information this does cover though, is very informative and much of it can cross over to the different eras! 

So, as you can see, even with the negatives there is still a wealth of information on these two discs and well worth the $37.00 price tag and that even includes postage! I haven’t even began to cover everything in this review as I haven’t viewed all the files yet, but there are some really nice extras on disc 2 to boot! If you’re interested, Click on, or copy and paste this link to see the ad! 

Update; the link below is no longer any good. Refer to the comments below to find the item on eBay!

http://paydotcom.net/r/82586/friscokid/26267378/


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Welcome to the site Frisco..........

So....what is your question?

In the end do you think it's worth the $37 bucks?
I have manuals and I bought years ago a 2 CD set Lionel Train Service Manual 2 disk set for $4.98. 
I use the manuals more and forgot I had the CD's till now.  I will have to go an give them a look again as I forget how much info is in them. But for $4.98 I couldn't go wrong.
Thanks for reminding me I had them.

It might have been you bidding against me a few months ago for a Frisco box car I won.


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## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

Thanks, big ed.

I really didn't have a question! I just wanted for everyone to know what's in these manuals so they can make a better decision about their purchase!

Do i think it's worth the $37? Well, with the amount of information that is on there, I'd have to say yes! Was it worth it to me? Only time will tell, but I believe it will be. I currently don't 'need' all the info on them, but I believe I definitely can use it in the future for reference material and maybe help me repair something also.

$4.98? Wow you got a deal!

If that boxcar was an O gauge, I might have been bidding against you. The last ones I won were Atlas-O Frisco's. Three of them with different road numbers! It's been a while since I've bid on anything on ebay!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Frisco,

Thanks very much for taking the time to post an honest / detailed review ... much appreciated.

I've been using the Olsen's Train website library to access old Lionel service manual and spec sheet info. The library is quite extensive, things are loaded and viewed as pdf files, and, it's all free access. I don't think (???) they have old catalog stuff on there ... I'd really like to see some of those (for nostalgia fun, mostly), so your CD set sound quite productive in that sense.

Best regards,

TJ


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## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

tjcruser,

Yeah, I really found those old catalogs fascinating reading, especially the real early ones. Some of the extras include Santa-Fe locomotive diagrams, Union Pacific history (I think) and photos, railroad history, and the Quiz-jr., which is a great question and answer forum for anyone, especially children to learn about railroading! 

Thanks for the heads up on Olsen's. I'll check it out when I get a chance!

FK


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Frisco Kid said:


> tjcruser,
> 
> Yeah, I really found those old catalogs fascinating reading, especially the real early ones. Some of the extras include Santa-Fe locomotive diagrams, Union Pacific history (I think) and photos, railroad history, and the Quiz-jr., which is a great question and answer forum for anyone, especially children to learn about railroading!
> 
> ...


I went and found mine and popped them in the computer and hate to say this but looking at your index list it's the same CD set. I got mine the same way in a paper sleeve. I believe I purchased these in 2007 off of e bay.
I know it was $4.98 as I marked it on the sleeve. Shipping was $3.75 as I marked that too. 
I never looked at the catalogs till tonight.
Got one file with a bunch of color engine pictures. I am guessing you have that too.
I don't know if they still sell what I got. I will do a search for them.


Edit...............,

I found this one I will bet it's the same as yours,
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-Train-Se...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ea6aec645

This one is there too same thing,

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-Train-Se...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item19bd68fdab

At least they could have shipped it as it looks in the advertisement!
Then it might have been worth $37 bucks huh?


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## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

big ed,

According to the advertisement on these two ebay items, they appear to be the same thing! The picture on the first posting does not look like my discs. Mine are a plain white face with the title, disc #, bar code, operating system emblems and a small pic of a GG1. I don't know if any files have been added recently to mine but if you compare the disc files with the list above you could tell me if there were!

They're listing them all as 1902-1986 manuals so I think they're all the same!

I agree with you about the packaging! It's just like ordering loco from an ad that pictures an F-3 with a Santa-Fe warbonnet paint scheme and when you receive it it has a plain primer paint on the shell!

FK


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Frisco Kid said:


> big ed,
> 
> According to the advertisement on these two ebay items, they appear to be the same thing! The picture on the first posting does not look like my discs. Mine are a plain white face with the title, disc #, bar code, operating system emblems and a small pic of a GG1. I don't know if any files have been added recently to mine but if you compare the disc files with the list above you could tell me if there were!
> 
> ...


The only difference from mine and yours is that mine might have been burned CD's from the originals. (re looking at my picture of them I am 99% sure mine have been copied) As the cheaper seller in the link I posted, if you read his feedback someone complained about another CD he sold as being burned.
(copied) 
My index looks just like yours.
I don't care if mine has been copied as it works fine for the bucks I spent on it.
Then again did they copy yours? I like the package picture that they didn't send you. I wonder if that is false advertising?
Heres mine.









What are you talking about when you said the F-3 body? Throw me a link. I have been looking for an unpainted F-3, (for a good price) to paint it my road colors. I would like to take a look at it too. If they advertised it as Santa-Fe you would think it would be painted! If that was e-bay we have a thread on e-bay reviews for sellers. Lets see if it belongs on the wall of shame. Even if it's not e-bay I would like to check it out.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Here ya go Frisco, though K-Line I think it's a handsome car.











I don't want to tell you how much I won (stole) it for. 
Only one other new be bidder was trying to get it. 
The guy listed it wrong too, so he didn't get the train bidders viewing it.
His loss my gain.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It's a good idea to have a review. The service book prices have increased a lot. I enjoy the prewar catalogs ang have printed out a few pages. The MPC era info was the best part, but I have learned since that Lionel has them for downloads as supplemenatals. They certainly are a good resource. The catalogs are nice since they present sets. I find the price guides still lacking in this area. I knew mine was older because of the storage size of information.


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## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

big ed

Those ebay postings are copies and not originals. I did order mine from the whom I believe is the person who put this together (Frank Keenan), which is the link I posted! So whatever works, I guess! 

I wasn't the other bidder on this boxcar. K-Line is not in my favorites list, so I never view these items. I do however have this boxcar, according to my inventory list. Probably got it at a train show somewhere! I got so many pieces of rolling stock packed away in boxes in several locations that it would take hours to find it!

Are you an LCCA member and if you are, will you be at the Denver convention?

T-Man

I've found for Postwar sets, My Greenberg's guide for cataloged sets has been an excellent resource for my collecting info. They probably have one for Prewar sets also!

FK


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Frisco Kid said:


> big ed
> 
> Those ebay postings are copies and not originals. I did order mine from the whom I believe is the person who put this together (Frank Keenan), which is the link I posted! So whatever works, I guess!
> 
> ...


Heres a link for some their guides and others.
http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionelpriceguides.htm

LCCA? No I am not a member. I am in New Jersey anyway, it would be quite a hike to make it.

I am like you but without a list of what I got. It would take days for me to find something.

Why don't you like the K line? I think it's a nice looking car?:thumbsup:
I normally go with Lionel, but if something catches my interest I will buy it.

The one guy I was bidding with if you want to call it that as I put a tester bid then sniped it had only 25 wins.


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## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

big ed,

I've got to have a list to take to the train shows with me. If I didn't have one, I would have bought a lot of duplicates of what I already had, as I can not remember what I've already bought! I'll see a lot of things I like at the shows and when I check my list, I'll find I already own it!

I seldom use price guides when shopping at shows. I've been around long enough, going to shows and pricing what I'm interested in, that I generally don't need the guides. It's only when I see something that I'm unfamiliar with, that I use a guide to get an idea of the value! I've been attending the TCA meet in York, PA every year in October and after attending those shows, prices are usually drilled into your head! 

I never said I didn't like K-Line! They mad a lot of cheap crap in their early years. But some of the later, more detailed stuff is pretty nice. I have several K-Line cars including a die-cast Frisco hopper!

FK


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Frisco Kid said:


> big ed,
> 
> I've got to have a list to take to the train shows with me. If I didn't have one, I would have bought a lot of duplicates of what I already had, as I can not remember what I've already bought! I'll see a lot of things I like at the shows and when I check my list, I'll find I already own it!
> 
> ...


I am not making you mad somehow? I notice everything you write ends in !:laugh:

I ought to make a list as I am the same way, but if it's a good deal and I like it I will buy it anyway, even if I know I have it.

Yes I agree with the K line crap, but the Frisco car looks nice and is built pretty well. It's a great runner.


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## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

big ed,

Mad? I'm furious!!!! Grrrr!!!! No, just kidding, Lol. It's just my writing style. I'm not even sure that I'm properly using punctuation. English and writing wasn't my strong suit!

Yes that is a nice car as with the other K-Line stuff I've purchased. One thing I've noticed lately especially with any of the newer freight cars I've purchased that are made in China from all the manufacturers, (Lionel, MTH K-Line Atlas-O, Weaver & Williams) that the couplers don't work as smooth as the original USA made Lionel couplers did! Have you noticed that?

I'll be off-line til Monday! Hope everyone has a good 4th of July!

FK


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## Frisco Kid (Jun 25, 2010)

Is anyone on here a LCCA member and going to the convention in Denver, July 26-31?


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