# Atlas Switches



## Wizard46 (Jun 21, 2017)

Using Atlas #4 switches and Atlas code 80 track and cars seem to bounce over the frogs, is this normal. Are these just cheap switches.


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*No, and Yes*



Wizard46 said:


> Using Atlas #4 switches and Atlas code 80 track and cars seem to bounce over the frogs, is this normal. Are these just cheap switches.


 Wizard46;

No it is certainly not normal for cars to bounce over the frogs. Yes The Atlas turnouts are cheap switches, in price, and especially in quality. They're better in N-scale than the infamous HO-scale "Snap Switch" ones, but that's about all you can say for them. Peco turnouts are much better. If you need to buy more turnouts, I'd recommend getting Pecos.
How bad is the bounce? Do they sometimes derail crossing through the frogs? 
The most likely cause is track (in this case your Atlas #4 turnout) or wheels, or both, out-of-adjustment. Have you checked the gauge (distance between) of the wheels on the cars that bounce? If you don't already have one, buy yourself an NMRA standards gauge. Use it to measure the wheel gauge, the gauge of the turnout's rails, and the flange-way width on the short guard rails opposite the frog. All those things need to be correct to help cars pass through the turnouts without bouncing. I have a prior post that shows the gauge in use for these measurements, and it has a lot of info on Atlas turnouts too. Look in the "General Model Train Discussion" section of this forum. You can use the "Search this forum" feature to find "Improving Atlas Turnouts" by Traction Fan.

good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There is another possibility or two. The wheel flanges
on some cars may be deeper than normal, replace those
wheels, or the
flangeway in the turnout frogs may be too shallow. That can
be filed out.

Don


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Code 80*



DonR said:


> There is another possibility or two. The wheel flanges
> on some cars may be deeper than normal, replace those
> wheels, or the
> flangeway in the turnout frogs may be too shallow. That can
> ...


 Don;

What you suggest is possible if the OP was using Atlas code55 turnouts and track. There the old "pizza cutter" flanges on some early N-scale equipment would hit the ties and certainly the frog & guard rail flangeways. However, he said he's using code 80 turnouts. It would take some extra deep flanges to cause any of these problems on code 80. Not impossible, I guess, but unlikely.
Still, If he has, or gets an NMRA gauge, he can use it to check wheel flange depth, and flangeway depth, along with the other measurements I recommended.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## dd1228 (Jan 26, 2015)

I just finished my umpteenth layout and this time I used Atlas code 55 track and turnouts. Totally satisfied. Peco is great and reliable but has European tie spacing, a little wider than US. The code 55 Atlas turnouts have no spring loaded points like Peco, and I have no problem with that as the points stay where I put them. If I knew how to post pictures here I would show you all some beautiful track work. ha ha !


----------



## Wizard46 (Jun 21, 2017)

Well I swapped one of the Atlas with a Peco, bug difference. Probably will change the rest out in the future.,


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

There needs to be an automatic default set on this forum so anytime someone types in ATLAS SWITCHES, it pops up "buy Peco"
Like a broken record.
I've been using Atlas snap switches for over 4 decades and doing fine. Maybe the advice doesn't ALWAYS need to be "toss em and go spend more money".


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

dd1228 said:


> I just finished my umpteenth layout and this time I used Atlas code 55 track and turnouts. Totally satisfied. Peco is great and reliable but has European tie spacing, a little wider than US. The code 55 Atlas turnouts have no spring loaded points like Peco, and I have no problem with that as the points stay where I put them. If I knew how to post pictures here I would show you all some beautiful track work. ha ha ![/QUOTE
> 
> Work on it a bit, posting pictures here is a cinch. I am using an LG G3 phone, and I simply take a picture, hit reply in the post, tap the paper clip icon, hit browse, select the image from my gallery file, hit down load, and tap the paper clip again. When the box pops up to add the image, just make sure you move the cursor to the end of the text lines, plus a line or two, so your picture won't be mixed in to the body of your post. Its simpler than it sounds.


----------



## dd1228 (Jan 26, 2015)

Thanks Time Warp , I'll work on it!!!!!!


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*The intent of the advice*



time warp said:


> There needs to be an automatic default set on this forum so anytime someone types in ATLAS SWITCHES, it pops up "buy Peco"
> Like a broken record.
> I've been using Atlas snap switches for over 4 decades and doing fine. Maybe the advice doesn't ALWAYS need to be "toss em and go spend more money".


 time warp;

I admit it, I'm one of those people who do recommend Peco turnouts. When I advise people to buy Peco turnouts, the intent is to have them start with Peco, if possible. This is because the Peco turnouts are very reliable, with few, if any derailments attributed to them. In many cases a member will post that he is having a lot of derailments on his Atlas turnouts. In that case I would also suggest Peco, at least for future turnout purchases. My other suggestion, in such cases, would be to read my old post, "Improving Atlas Turnouts" to see if that would be helpful to him. If, like you, he was not having any problems with them, he wouldn't be posting that he was. I learned long ago not to argue with success. Since you are happy with the performance of your Atlas snap switches, by all means keep them. If it works don't fix it, let alone throw away some things that work well, and go out and spend a lot of money on unnecessary replacements. 
Personally, I build my own turnouts, though I do have a few Pecos too. I don't own any stock in Peco, I'm just impressed by their widespread reputation for excellent operation, and my own favorable experience with them.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Here's the thing: If someone here needs help with a Tyco engine, most here will help them find a solution, not tell them to go buy a BLI or something. Like wise if I asked you to help me fix my Chevy, you wouldn't tell me to go buy a Cadillac, you would help me fix it.
Peco is fine, as is Shinohara, and others. But what does it say to the inexperienced modeler when several on this forum are basically telling them their equipment is junk? It's not. Troubleshooting and repair should be the first recommendation. Yes, there are some better brands, but where do you go when that doesn't solve the problem? What if it's not the switch? How often do you see response posts saying to check and gauge wheels, or make sure you don't have a stiff or dragging coupler? Maybe there's something binding, poor rail alignment, or a host of other things. Good track geometry trumps brand name every time. Last time I had a turnout problem, it was simply a worn switch machine that wouldn't travel fully one direction. It just looks to me that it's taking the lazy way out to automatically assume putting in a Peco switch will make everything better.


----------



## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

time warp said:


> Here's the thing: If someone here needs help with a Tyco engine, most here will help them find a solution, not tell them to go buy a BLI or something. Like wise if I asked you to help me fix my Chevy, you wouldn't tell me to go buy a Cadillac, you would help me fix it.
> Peco is fine, as is Shinohara, and others. But what does it say to the inexperienced modeler when several on this forum are basically telling them their equipment is junk? It's not. Troubleshooting and repair should be the first recommendation. Yes, there are some better brands, but where do you go when that doesn't solve the problem? What if it's not the switch? How often do you see response posts saying to check and gauge wheels, or make sure you don't have a stiff or dragging coupler? Maybe there's something binding, poor rail alignment, or a host of other things. Good track geometry trumps brand name every time. Last time I had a turnout problem, it was simply a worn switch machine that wouldn't travel fully one direction. It just looks to me that it's taking the lazy way out to automatically assume putting in a Peco switch will make everything better.


:thumbsup::appl:


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*tlas turnouts*



time warp said:


> Here's the thing: If someone here needs help with a Tyco engine, most here will help them find a solution, not tell them to go buy a BLI or something. Like wise if I asked you to help me fix my Chevy, you wouldn't tell me to go buy a Cadillac, you would help me fix it.
> Peco is fine, as is Shinohara, and others. But what does it say to the inexperienced modeler when several on this forum are basically telling them their equipment is junk? It's not. Troubleshooting and repair should be the first recommendation. Yes, there are some better brands, but where do you go when that doesn't solve the problem? What if it's not the switch? How often do you see response posts saying to check and gauge wheels, or make sure you don't have a stiff or dragging coupler? Maybe there's something binding, poor rail alignment, or a host of other things. Good track geometry trumps brand name every time. Last time I had a turnout problem, it was simply a worn switch machine that wouldn't travel fully one direction. It just looks to me that it's taking the lazy way out to automatically assume putting in a Peco switch will make everything better.


 timewarp;

If you read my first response to the OP, it includes a recommendation to check the gauge of the turnout and wheels as you suggest. So does the "Improving Atlas turnouts" post I mentioned. That post is about what can go wrong with an Atlas HO-scale "snap switch"; and what to check, photos of how to check things with an NMRA gauge, and suggestions of ways to fix the potential problems. In some cases, I tell people that they should make a choice of what suggested improvements, and what my not work if they choose to use that recommendation. As an example, if the point rivets are replaced with soldered rail joiners, as I suggested, they will not be able to depend on an Atlas twin-coil switch machine anymore. That machine does not have enough power to reliably move the points when the rivets are removed. It also points out one possible "problem" that can't be fixed, short of replacing the turnout. That is the geometry of the HO snap switch, which is there to let that turnout fit in place of an 18" radius curved track section.
I couldn't help you fix your car. I don't know enough about autos to be of any help, also I'm disabled and couldn't do it physically. As for the Tyco engine analogy, yes, you're right, most of us would try to help him fix a problem if possible. However I don't see anything wrong in recommending a better quality replacement. Often that is the best "Fix" that can be done. You are, of course, quite correct that buying a Peco turnout won't adjust a dangling coupler, or re-gauge the wheels on a freight car. I don't think I've ever recommended buying a new turnout without even attempting to fix whatever is ailing the old one.
Each of us has our own opinion on turnouts, and many other things. We also have the right to state those opinions on the forum. You and many others like Atlas turnouts. I have no quarrel with that. I've used Atlas turnouts in both HO, and N scales myself. I had problems with them and was able to remedy some of those problems. Eventually, I ended up making turnouts, because, way back when I needed them, the kind I wanted (N-scale code 55 ones) simply weren't available commercially. In the process of building dozens of the things I learned a few lessons. Not all my scratch-built "masterpieces" :laugh: worked right! The present batch do only because I learned from my mistakes.
I think I understand your post about an "automatic button" that says "Go buy Peco." As Dr. Sheldon Cooper of The Big Bang Theory might say, "That's sarcasm right?" My purpose in answering you was to point out that recommending Pecos is not automatic, or perceived, at least by me, as a panacea for every train problem.
Telling a newbie that the product he's using has flaws, is not wrong, in my opinion. Of course we experienced types have to maintain some recall of how it was to be brand new, and have very little knowledge of the hobby. It can be a fine line. Do you just encourage him to go on, and make all the same mistakes you did; so he can learn from them? Or do you try to help him avoid some? From your excellent posts: (I especially like your "A few simple things" thread.) I think you do everything you can to help them. I try, in my own way, to do that too.

Regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos: 

regards


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

My comments were certainly not intended as hostile, or to indict any individual. Also, the car analogy was figurative. Just trying to make a point really. 
In all fairness, N scale and HO scale turnouts are like Apples and Oranges, so my viewpoint, from experience, reflects HO equipment.
Keep up the good work, I appreciate your views.


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Thanks*



time warp said:


> My comments were certainly not intended as hostile, or to indict any individual. Also, the car analogy was figurative. Just trying to make a point really.
> In all fairness, N scale and HO scale turnouts are like Apples and Oranges, so my viewpoint, from experience, reflects HO equipment.
> Keep up the good work, I appreciate your views.


 Thanks for being nice about it. I was a bit afraid that I had unintentionally offended you. For my part, I'm not offended in the least. 
Yes the Atlas HO and N turnouts are quite different from each other, in more ways than the obvious size difference. For that matter, as you likely know, there are some pretty significant differences between their several types of HO turnouts. 
We both know that the forum has plenty of both Atlas turnout fans, and detractors. I think there is room for both. 

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


----------

