# Help with 5121 Turn-out



## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

Can anyone help with a Lionel 5121 switch/turnout?
I purchased one on eBay- the unit has a controller-3 wire. The body of the turn-out has two posts with the typical Lionel screw caps. The other post is a connector like you would see on a 'lockon'. On that wire was a little note from the seller about connecting this to the transformer. Now I purchased this many months ago, only yesterday I delved into making it work. It was place into the layout- with insulating pins oriented like the 1122 switches already in the layout. I attached the controller-it did not work. I tried the 1122 controllers- no good. I took it out and worked with it on the workbench- the unit will switch with direct power from the transformer. There are no other wires coming from the turnout. It looks like it was rigged for fixed voltage, however there is no jumper wire.
Defective control box? Fixed voltage rigged? I need troubleshooting guidance- 
Thanks,
FEL


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Did you mean to type 1121?

Sounds like someone modified an O27 1121 switch for transformer power. Can you post a picture?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The 5121 is just a more modern manufacturing run of the 1121 I believe.

See this Lionel 27" Path Switch document, it describes the modifications for fixed power.


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

*Lionel 5121*

I still have the box- When I get home tonight I will take a picture and send it on.
I was able to download the owner's manual, entitles ' 0-27 Guage 27" Path Remote-Control Switch Owner's Manual. 70-5121-250 3/05.
If that helps,
Thanks for responding,
Fred


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

*Lionel 5121*

That manual is somewhat vague- the switch definitely has no jump wire- a clipping of wires to the coil was required to do that. My guess was that the controller should still work if the move to constant voltage was not completed.


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

*Lionel 5121*

I took two pictures of the switch. My guess is that I need to wire it for constant voltage, but I am not sure which wire to cut- I do not want to make a fatal mistake.
I discovered that the controller had a wire off- got that fixed last night and with some gerry-rigging, I got the controller to make a hard change straight with constant buzzing from the controller in the neutral position, and a soft return to the curve with a tug to the other direction. This motion is more like a rebound from the hard change- like the loss of current or power to try a change in direction caused the switch to softly slide, partially to the other direction.
















Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Normally O27 switches are powered from the track but in some cases layout builders prefer to modify them to operate from a separate transformer connection. These photos confirm what I thought that the switch has been such modified to run on a separate power source. To operate this switch you just need to connect that extra terminal connection to either the track center rail for track power or to another transformer lead for direct transformer power. 

When doing the modification you would have to cut the center wires on the coil and connect that to a wire to provide the new connection. That has been done for you by a previous owner so you should not have to make any further cuts or modifications. The outer rail provides the return connection so you do not have to worry about that.


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

*Lionel 5121*

Thanks, Not seeing a jump wire confused me. How would the controller be wired to the switch? I think the middle wire is the ground in the controller, the two that flank it connect to the lever.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I would assume the power for the turnout gets connected to the power for the switch. The other two wires go on the terminal nuts.


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

*Lionel 5121*

Okay, now once the switch is wired for fixed voltage, would it then require a Switch Controller (viz Lionel 6-14182) or a SC-2 Switch and Accessory Controller (viz Lionel 6-22980)? 
Will the single toggle, 3 wire switch controller that came with the unit still work?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

What it looks like is that you should wire power to the clip on the yellow wire and wire the center wire of the controller to ground. Then connect the two other wires of the controller to the two terminals on the switch. This is using the convention that the outside rail is ground and the center rail is power. 

To check all of this with a meter, measure the resistance from the yellow wire to each of the terminals on the switch. There should be a few ohms between the yellow wire and the terminals. 

To check the controller with a meter, connect the meter between the center wire and either of the two outside wires. Operate the controller in both directions and see if the meter reads near zero ohms in one direction. Then move the meter lead to the other outside rail and to the same test. 

Report back your findings. If you don't have a meter, I strongly recommend you get one. Harbor Freight has them for $8


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

I got a meter, I hope to have some time to try this out tonight. I will let you know how it goes, Thanks,


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

You will still need to connect the three-wire controller to the 3 screw terminals on the switch. The fixed power connect allows you to operate the switch when the train is not running or running at a very low power level. 

The terminal closest to the switch box cover is tied to the outer rail return. The controller works by putting an outside rail ground return to one of the two remaining direction terminals. When you throw the lever you are connecting return to one side of the coil and the center of the coil connects to power. That completes a circuit that fires the switch one way or another.


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

One of those terminal screws was taken off to run that wire with the loop through that hole. So there are only two terminals left for me- I should ground that middle wire to where that terminal was- I'll give it a go when I get home. Thanks guys for the input- I have not done the Lionel thing for 40 years- the grandson found the boxes and now I am off to the races cleaning, fixing, and asking many questions. Again thanks for your help. I will keep you posted.


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## fleickly (May 20, 2013)

*Lionel 5121*

Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!!!!
Its Alive, Alive- (Dr. Frankenstein) or better yet, it works.
There is a morass of wires - see picture, but I have a functioning switch. 
Thanks to all for your help,
FEL


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

areizman, if you look at the pictures, the ground terminal has been removed and there is a yellow wire coming out of the hole where the terminal was, and the yellow wire has a clip on the end of it. So, one of the wires of the controller needs to be connected to the outside rail. I am assuming it is the center wire of the controller because most of them are wired so the center wire would go to the missing terminal on the switch which is the outside rail.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

It appears that my advice was correct. Good job.


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