# What is one thing that drives you nuts and you can't understand why in Model Trains?



## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

So at The San Diego Model Railroad museum there is 2 HO layouts: The La Mesa Model Railroad Club which Models Bakersfield to Mohave via Tehachapi loop and the San Diego Model Railroad Club modeling the San Diego and Arizona Eastern via Carrizo Gorge.

Today while at the club and walking around the museum, I see this on the LMRRC Layout... a Harley Davidson Train. Now keep in mind the LMRRC only allows stuff that ran on the loop from a train order, photo proof or if it modern Loco it has at least one corresponding Railroad. So mainly SP and SF (BNSF and UP) can run on this layout. While the SDMRRC you can run any Railroad no matter what.

For me if you run trains on a layout that Models a real life route, I would think running a correct Loco and consist would be what people want to see. Watching this HD train drove me nuts and wanted me to wash my eyes out lol...

So what is one thing that drives you nuts and you can't understand why in Model Trains?

Thanks


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Well, to directly answer the question it would have to be the old Penn Line GG1 factory painted in the New Haven Mc Ginnis paint scheme. But it doesn't "drive me nuts" because, like a friend once said, sometimes that's a short trip. Lol. 

You do realize that these things only bother us because we have some knowledge of the prototypical railroads. How many other people walking through that display do you think even thought twice about the HD train? (I will admit I don't care for any of the "advertising" type model trains but I understand why manufacturers make them). 

I have a friend and former employer in Tennessee who is a master G scale model railroader. He often builds and runs elaborate garden show and Christmas exhibits in various public forums. Among his many locomotive consists is a pair of Southern Geeps. They are low nosed and he runs them short hood forward. I call it his "troll train". 
999/1000 people coming through those shows have no idea, nor would they care, that the Southern, (and N&W) used high hood locomotives and ran long hood forward. But oh, the fun when that old SRR or N&W guy shows up! And they eventually do and never fail to point out the "mistake". Little do they realize that those locos are there just for them :smilie_daumenpos:
This is one of those things that causes the wives to roll their eyes and say something like " Why do you guys even know these things?" Good question. Because we like it, I guess!


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

SDIV Tim said:


> So what is one thing that drives you nuts and you can't understand why in Model Trains?


Actually, my pet peeve is the exact opposite. I dislike the attitude that if the model railroad I have spent my time and my money on has even the tiniest of historical inaccuracies, I'm not a real model railroader. It's one of the reasons I'm doubtful I'll ever join a club, because I'll probably never hear the end of such nonsense.


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

The only thing about model trains that drives me bonkers is the price for some pieces. Companies have been pricing their wares out of the casual railfan's range for some time now, and it' s making it harder for younger people to get into railroading. I remember buying a starter set for about 50.00, which helped me start my railroad idea way back when. That same starter set is no less than 129.99 now or more. If it weren't for brands like Bachmann and Model Power that have affordable products, it would be very difficult to have started in this hobby.

Prices should come down. Get kids into trains instead of putting a phone in front of them.

-J.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The biggest thing that bothers me is people running trains way to fast. Speed is to scale also. Some of these trains are running at about 180 mph.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Ko Improbable said:


> Actually, my pet peeve is the exact opposite. I dislike the attitude that if the model railroad I have spent my time and my money on has even the tiniest of historical inaccuracies, I'm not a real model railroader. It's one of the reasons I'm doubtful I'll ever join a club, because I'll probably never hear the end of such nonsense.


Bingo! :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:

Everyone has different needs, desires, and interests. Why one modeller would have the (to my mind) temerity to suggest that another's way is wrong just boggles my mind. And since that sounds like the direction this thread is heading, this will probably be my last visit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Since I run my Wienermobile, Phantom, Coors Silver Bullet, etc., not to mention other fantasy stuff around, I guess I'm in the camp of *Ko Impossible*. 

We're doing this for fun guys, everyone sees that goal in a different way. I love a nice prototypical consist as much as the next guy, but I also like the lighter side of model railroading. I don't begrudge folks for appreciating one particular viewpoint, but I would just like the same consideration.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

My pet peeve; "Bean counters". I'm in this hobby for fun & enjoyment not to be critical about someone else's preferences or choices.


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## dsertdog56 (Oct 26, 2014)

My old man had plenty of peeves when he was in the hobby, most stemming from his "club years"! He had no problem telling you in his own spicy manner. Btw not a lot of profanity was used, but you got the point!

His special peeve was folks who could afford and purchase brass import stuff, yet couldn't make 'em run decent, couldn't paint, lay track, run wire or anything else.
After that, it was prototype mixing. He didn't care,. If he liked it, he bought it. 

And if you liked something else and wanted to run it on his layout you could. Better to promote the hobby than promote something else. And while we didn't have advertising trains we sure could've. 

Being his oldest, I inherited those attitudes mostly from listening to him. But they've been further tempered by years in the car hobby.

I've learned to keep my mouth shut though. People are so easily butt hurt now days and think that violence is the best solution, Too many video games I guess...


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm not a rivet counter, I will run fun stuff because it is very hard to replicate a actual route and have the proper trains that ran on it. I'm only a fiver counter when it is like a route and I would like to model it to make it look like the real thing


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Most folks consider themselves an "expert" on something, from salt shakers to model railroads.
My next door neighbor fancies himself a walking guru on 50's and 60's era cars. Since my layout is loaded with them he tends to go off on a detailed diatribe of opinions every time he visits the layout. What really grabs my buns is when he blatantly tells me what vehicles are "missing" that should be on the layout.
The last time he did that I cordially invited him to leave a C-note on the way out and I would be sure to order what he desired.
Haven't heard any noise since.
Just my two cents,
Bob


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Actually, what bothers me most is that I got my love of model trains from my father, but my children have no interest in them; and with "30 being the new 20" I'm afraid this hobby will have died by the time I have grandchildren to pass it on to.


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

My pet peeve is not about any individuals because I think everyone should do what feels good for them with their railroad.

Mine is about people, but not real people, rather the scale people I see in layout photos. I love looking at the photos of the incredibly detailed and realistic scenes. Most of those have figures in them that add a lot, but all of them I've seen are shiny. Their clothes are shiny, their skin and hair are shiny. In real life, I don't see shiny people or shiny clothes. I look at these great scenes with engines carefully dulled and weathered, buildings weathered and realistically dulled and I think "wouldn't the scene be more real if a little Dullcoat were applied to the people so they looked like real people do". I don't have any people yet and have never tried Dullcoating any, so I'm only thinking out loud.


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

I have an L track I made up just to run a train in a circle.
It does connect to the main line. Turnouts of course do the circle thing.
It has one station, and just is an endless loop.
But it's fun just to set the speed at "not to fly off the table", and watch it run.

Realistic? No. Fun to watch? yes.
It's kinda defeatist, when you want to have fun, but strict rules and regulations totally get in the way.
Even worse, is if you were the one that put the rules in.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Probably my own trackwork. I can fix it and get it to run reliably, often just with a few weeks of tinkering on a new layout. After that, it seems to run well. 

However, two things in the hobby really get under my skin:

When new or older locomotives just don't work. I can deal with derailments, I can tweak drawbars under steamers, I can tweak springs under engine trucks...but when the problem is related to broken wires, fragile tethers between tender and cab, weak or bad solders, defective (AKA smoked) decoders, wipers or electrical pick-up designs that are frankly crappy....these I can't fix. Never got the knowledge, never had the interest or hobby of electronics, and those problems require a return to the importer.

Secondly is the intermittent behavior of some DCC engines. Sometimes they just stop being smooth runners and no amount of cleaning, either of the tires, pickups, or the rails, seems to improve the performance of the drive system. I sometimes think it is dirty rails, or faulty points in turnouts, but then another locomotive trundles over that site and seems to be perfectly happy.

I have never, and will never, adopt the false argument that the hobby is too expensive. It's a hobby. It's discretionary income at play in hobbies. If you can't afford to save and purchase what you desire, do without. That's what responsible people should do. I will agree that it is disappointing when a price puts something I'd like to have out of reach, but it's the same for everyone with any hobby, with houses, with cars, with boats, with aircraft, horses, music, smart phones, foodstuffs, medicine and medical interventions....the list is almost endless. There's nothing in any modern Bill or Charter of Rights that says the world owes us toys, or even good health.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

As far as I'm concerned, if ANYTHING in a hobby "drives you nuts", then it's time to get another hobby.....


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

Hobo, that is the whole thread in one short sentence.
So true.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Not really a thing that drives me nuts, but people who will take something like a person sharing information with them as demanding that they change their stuff. I've never really known of any "Rivet counters" as depicted here or in other threads who demand that others change their details to make them happy. I do know quite a few people who are capable of great detail in their work and research their projects to try to maintain fidelity to the prototype. I have known people who were generally hard to get along with under any circumstances, but I didn't know them to demand that others change their modeling preferences or styles to comply with their own. 
I'm more inclined to think that someone offered what they thought was an interesting detail about something and it was accepted as a demand to change. Yeah, fine. Reject suggestions, points of interest, idol chit chat or cautionary advice and continue on with whatever you were doing, but don't create the bogey man to make yourself out to be a victim.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Fantasy trains don't bother me. I REALLY liked that subway train that was posted the other day, by the way (four subway buns on rails). That was a cool train.


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## Ironrogue (Jan 22, 2014)

That my zephyr stopped allowing my jump throttles …


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee, I'm tempted to recreate the subway buns train with command, I'd have to come up with some creative sounds for it.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

I just hope there isn't a Hell's Angels Train...


3 letters...MTH


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

Ko Improbable said:


> I dislike the attitude that if the model railroad I have spent my time and my money on has even the tiniest of historical inaccuracies, I'm not a real model railroader. It's one of the reasons I'm doubtful I'll ever join a club, because I'll probably never hear the end of such nonsense.


This is huge, and I agree 100%. When I go to train shows and talk with a club guy here and there, it starts. They ask what I model, I tell them, and then they always try to tell me that their layout is 100% accurate, and that anyone else's layout doesn't meet the same standards.

This is exactly why I don't join the local club (which is in walking distance of where I live). Some of them are so pigheaded, it turns you off.

My one rule for model railroading is simple: There are NO rules. Model what your heart desires! As long as you enjoy what you are doing and have fun doing it, that's all that matters!

-J.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

_So what is one thing that drives you nuts and you can't understand why in Model Trains?_

Theme trains! :laugh: Everything from grocery store specials to Elvis to the A-Team. Don't bother trying to explain why they may be fun to you - I will never get it. But by all means have at it and enjoy, and I will defend your right to run the things


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## Rock022 (Jan 2, 2017)

Well, I do enjoy the hobby so far. As some of you know I am a newbie. But something that I am not liking are the prices of some of this structures. I paid about $50 for a detailed barn, and what sort of disappointed me was that it was just molded plastic which does not cost much and the HO scale is small, so spending $50 for a small little thing does come with some heartburn when you have a large family to feed. However I do enjoy the finished product that I got.

Now I am hesitant to buy detailed buildings, because it is hard to justify $$$ for a tiny thing. Some of this buildings cost the same as when I take my family (We are 6) to eat. 

I understand the locomotives, specially the steam engines. They have a lot of small detailed moving parts. But molded plastic?

As for the then and now prices. I do not think they are inadequate on the locos. $50 in the 1950's was a lot. And they did not have the same details as they do today. 

As for the hobby? You have to think about the competition. When you had a model train in the past, that was all you had. Today the trains compete with TV, Video Games, Cellular Phones, Computers, R/C Cars/Plains/Helicopters, and much more.

I actually chose model trains for this very reason. It is a "static" hobby that does not need internet, or TV.


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## Rock022 (Jan 2, 2017)

Oh! I just thought of this...

The one thing that I absolutely DO NOT LIKE about this hobby. Is the complete and almost unanimous agreement, that we ALWAYS NEED 

More Space! 

I am always looking on how can I get more space for my layout. But the Stores do not sell them anymore. lol


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Rock022 said:


> Well, I do enjoy the hobby so far. As some of you know I am a newbie. But something that I am not liking are the prices of some of this structures. I paid about $50 for a detailed barn, and what sort of disappointed me was that it was just molded plastic which does not cost much and the HO scale is small, so spending $50 for a small little thing does come with some heartburn when you have a large family to feed. However I do enjoy the finished product that I got.
> 
> Now I am hesitant to buy detailed buildings, because it is hard to justify $$$ for a tiny thing. Some of this buildings cost the same as when I take my family (We are 6) to eat.
> ...........


Yeah that is a good point, I have wondered about the cost of plastic buildings also. I can see it for the built-up ones, because you are then adding in the cost of assembling it. But the high cost of unbuilt plastic kits amaze me. 
I have learned that with patience, good buys can be found at train shows - especially with the ones that require a bit of 'TLC'. "Never buy new."


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

Authenticity is great, but running an imaginary train on a scale train layout it's not like you are tearing out a section of the original run, and putting in a completely irrelevant object. Once you are finished running your Loco, lift it off the tracks and put it away. No harm no foul. This is suppose to be fun. 

Dan


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

JNXT 7707 said:


> Yeah that is a good point, I have wondered about the cost of plastic buildings also. I can see it for the built-up ones, because you are then adding in the cost of assembling it. But the high cost of unbuilt plastic kits amaze me.
> I have learned that with patience, good buys can be found at train shows - especially with the ones that require a bit of 'TLC'. "Never buy new."


It isn't the plastic that costs the money, but the design and tooling. How many copies of a kit can you realistically be expected to sell? What is the production cost, including labor, materials, and allocated depreciation of the machinery. Add licensing fees, if you're duplicating a real place or authentic signage. Now add in your prorated cost for design and tooling, plus some profit.

Ain't nobody getting rich making model railroading stuff.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Rock022 said:


> Oh! I just thought of this...
> 
> The one thing that I absolutely DO NOT LIKE about this hobby. Is the complete and almost unanimous agreement, that we ALWAYS NEED
> 
> ...


Ain't it the truth!


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

The thing I don't understand is why so many steam locos come with that useless little stub of a front coupler. You have to fabricate something to run them double-headed. In this modern day of easily setting up double-heading (on the remote) every steam loco should have a_* functional*_ front coupler.

On my MTH Railking Triplex's I do have functional front couplers, which makes double-heading easy. But most of my other MTH steamers have only the stub front coupler.

I even wrote to MTh about this but didn't get a reply.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They're making it look scale sized. Many of the Lionel models have the full sized dummy for MU configurations in the box, but sometimes it's a PITA to install them. I used the one for my VL-BB once at the NJ-HR, took me 15 minutes to disassemble the pilot and install the coupler. Then after we were done with the run, it was another work session to take the thing off again!


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

Rock022 said:


> Well, I do enjoy the hobby so far. As some of you know I am a newbie. But something that I am not liking are the prices of some of this structures. I paid about $50 for a detailed barn, and what sort of disappointed me was that it was just molded plastic which does not cost much and the HO scale is small, so spending $50 for a small little thing does come with some heartburn when you have a large family to feed. However I do enjoy the finished product that I got.
> 
> Now I am hesitant to buy detailed buildings, because it is hard to justify $$$ for a tiny thing. Some of this buildings cost the same as when I take my family (We are 6) to eat.
> 
> ...


Raw plastic doesn't cost much, at all. Injection molds cost a *ton* of money. Like, a quarter of a million dollars for good ones, and they never last forever. Not only are you paying a little piece of the cost of the existing mold, but you're paying a little more to make sure they can afford to replace it when it fails.

I'm planning to just make as much of my own as I can manage out of sheet styrene.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

This is where a 3-D printer could be useful. A couple of libraries around here supposedly have such printers. You sign up for time on them.


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## 1905dave (Sep 18, 2016)

3D printing will not replace injection molding for the near future its too costly and slow. An injection molding machine can crank out dozens of shells or kit sprues an hour, a 3D printer would be able to crank out one shell overnight.

If you need multiple parts yourself, resin casting is cheaper and quicker if you need more than a dozen or so of the parts.

I rarely if ever by a preassembled building. Most of the preassembled buildings I buy are kits assembled by modelers and sold as used at train shows. Most of the time I cuts them apart back into a "kit" and reassemble the parts to fit my space and requirements. Very few of my buildings are stock kits. Once you learn how to use styrene and make parts, making your own "kit" using Tichy or Grandt line window castings, and sheet styrene it pretty easy.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

I agree that 3-D printing is as yet not ready for production work. But for one off and spare parts, it is perfect. I've done the resin casting, and it is also a slow process, and the moulds don't last all that long.

The last resin casting I did was making O scale ammo boxes for my military consist. I needed about 40 each in 3 sizes. So I bought one resin ammo box selection on ebay and used them to make the moulds. Way cheaper than buying them _all _on ebay but still a time consuming process. The last few ammo boxes weren't near as nice as the first ones out of the mould. BTW; PAM cooking spray was a great mould release. And it cleaned off with dish soap and water.


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## mjrfd99 (Jan 5, 2016)

My pet peeve usually is my own screw ups.
FYI - bet a HD guy is in the club. I swear some yuppsters will buy HD branded dog poop. 
Here's what we been up to


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Ko Improbable said:


> Injection molds cost a *ton* of money. Like, a quarter of a million dollars for good ones, and they never last forever.


I used to know a guy who had his own shop about 10 years ago. He did all his own work from designing the pattern in CAD, to cutting the bare molds on the CNC, and finally shooting out and cleaning up the final product. He said the blank molds ran about $5000 (I think those plates were about 8x12 inches?) but that didn't include his time for creating something out of them. I asked him once about cheaper blanks and he said they were available, but only good for a few hundred shots and weren't generally used except maybe for testing a new pattern.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Shdwdrgn said:


> I used to know a guy who had his own shop about 10 years ago. He did all his own work from designing the pattern in CAD, to cutting the bare molds on the CNC, and finally shooting out and cleaning up the final product. He said the blank molds ran about $5000 (I think those plates were about 8x12 inches?) but that didn't include his time for creating something out of them. I asked him once about cheaper blanks and he said they were available, but only good for a few hundred shots and weren't generally used except maybe for testing a new pattern.


If he had his own shop, he was still probably in low rate production and wasn't using top of the line stuff (which manufacturers tend to use when intend to mold thousands of parts). And there is a lot more cost that goes into the book value of the molds that Ko is talking about.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

He was punching out the T-Rex line of pet products (they eventually bought his shop and he works for them now), so yeah, he was generally punching out thousands of pieces every week. I know steel prices shot up a lot since then, maybe that's why there's such a price difference? This would have been around 2004-2005 when I was talking with him.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

There's a difference between a rough (looking) pet product mold, and a finely detailed scale locomotive shell mold.....

A ton of money goes into such molds for models....ask Jason Shron over at Rapido what he pays for mold production.....but be sitting down first....


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Oh there was nothing rough about the product... however these were simple 2-part molds, nothing like you need to include full standing detail pieces on a steamer.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Actually, by my "rough", I meant less detail (than a locomotive would need).....went to their website to have a look.....


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> It isn't the plastic that costs the money, but the design and tooling. How many copies of a kit can you realistically be expected to sell? What is the production cost, including labor, materials, and allocated depreciation of the machinery. Add licensing fees, if you're duplicating a real place or authentic signage. Now add in your prorated cost for design and tooling, plus some profit.
> 
> Ain't nobody getting rich making model railroading stuff.


I get that, CT - but what I am referring to are the plastic structures that have been around for ages. Some are almost as old as I am (and that is starting to say something). 
Nobody is getting rich, maybe...in my mind this still doesn't compute. That's my gripe, anyway :laugh:

Back to the train shows....


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## gg1hokk (Apr 18, 2016)

Ko Improbable said:


> Actually, my pet peeve is the exact opposite. I dislike the attitude that if the model railroad I have spent my time and my money on has even the tiniest of historical inaccuracies, I'm not a real model railroader. It's one of the reasons I'm doubtful I'll ever join a club, because I'll probably never hear the end of such nonsense.


No, it is not nonsense. Neither is your post which makes perfect sense. Model railroading is a hobby that is broad in scope and encompasses many facets. I collect NYC steam, only some of them never were, to show the difference between relative scales and gauges all the way for G to T. 

Some people like Christmas and Halloween trains. 
Some people like the older operating accessories. 
Some people like layouts that are all track and no scenery. These things are not for me.

But I do enjoy admiring their work. 

The only thing that I have "questioned" in the hobby is the concept of "PRE-ORDERING". I mean, isn't a pre-order really an order after all, albeit a back order for a product not made yet? Kind of a strange concept. And some people, including myself, have waiting a long time for an indeterminate date to receive their order. I have never heard of such a concept before entering the model railroading hobby.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

gg1hokk said:


> I mean, isn't a pre-order really an order after all, albeit a back order for a product not made yet? Kind of a strange concept. And some people, including myself, have waiting a long time for an indeterminate date to receive their order. I have never heard of such a concept before entering the model railroading hobby.


Pre-ordering happens in many hobbies, although it is a more recent concept.......since the economy took a dump, the hobby world has suffered, as many people tend to spend money on needs (food, shelter) rather than wants (toys, luxury items)....

The manufacturers don't want to warehouse what they make; they would rather make as many as are ordered, and invest what they would spend to warehouse stuff into more items....

At least, that's the way I see it.....

I don't mind the pre-order announcements....at least we get to know if new stuff is planned/coming....in the old days, albeit well before the internet, we didn't get a lot of warning that new stuff was coming.....we just stumbled upon it....and missed quite a bit of it....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with Old Hobo -- preordering is a way to make sure manufacturers, distributors, and retailers don't get stuck with a lot of dead stock.

The money thus saved can be reinvested in a wider variety of products, and they can afford to float more ideas to see if a proposed model will actually sell.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

It's obvious that the manufacturers wait until they get enough orders to make a pre-sold production run. That's why the delivery dates are so unreliable. They fill the orders and make a few more for dealers to stock and don't have to sit on inventory. 

In this market it must be almost impossible to tell exactly what and how many you are going to sell; so making product on spec isn't a good idea.

At least in my area the same thing is going on in new home building. Very little built on spec; almost all new home construction is pre-sold property. Built to the customers order.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

In fact, I do believe some items have been cancelled before they even get going, due to low interest/demand thru pre-order.....

If it's not worth their while to make something, they won't....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> In fact, I do believe some items have been cancelled before they even get going, due to low interest/demand thru pre-order.....
> 
> If it's not worth their while to make something, they won't....


Exactly. They've established a minimum number of sales that they need to make a profit. If they can't get there, then they don't spend the money on product development.


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

The one thing that bugs me the most.....couplers! 

In real trains, pretty much any locomotive can couple to pretty much any car and go....but in model railroading, each manufacturer has multiple couplers with multiple designs....there are less stars in the galaxy, than there are choices of couplers. It's ridiculous and is the cause of much of my frustration with this hobby. There does not need to be so many couplers that are so vastly different.....


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Simple solution.....pick the type of coupler you like the best, and make sure that you have them on all your rolling stock and locomotives....


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> In fact, I do believe some items have been cancelled before they even get going, due to low interest/demand thru pre-order.....
> 
> If it's not worth their while to make something, they won't....


I guess this would be my peeve. They almost promise us a new whatever, then can cancel it without further notice, and we're left salivating for what we can't get. Sure sucks the air out of the balloon!

But I understand, they're in it for profit, not loss.


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Old_Hobo said:


> Simple solution.....pick the type of coupler you like the best, and make sure that you have them on all your rolling stock and locomotives....


Simple in theory, not simple in finance. That will come after all my track is laid, terrain is set and all is well on the western front. Been checking into it a lot lately, and it seems to me, the one mentioned and/or used the most seems to be Kadee trucks, couplers, and wheels. But even looking at those, there are a couple different kinds to choose from. Just easy to get lost in a sea of coupler choices. Especially when you don't know whats what and what's best, or most reliable, or more readily available, what's easy to convert to? Almost a learning curve in itself. 
The only thing I know for sure, so far, is I want them all knuckle.....but which ones?


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

VegasN said:


> The one thing that bugs me the most.....couplers!
> 
> In real trains, pretty much any locomotive can couple to pretty much any car and go....but in model railroading, each manufacturer has multiple couplers with multiple designs....there are less stars in the galaxy, than there are choices of couplers. It's ridiculous and is the cause of much of my frustration with this hobby. There does not need to be so many couplers that are so vastly different.....


Horn and hook couplers need to go. They aren't very effective, and look terrible as well. I have never been a fan of them whatsoever, and would never consider using them. 

-J.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Personally, I think couplers are much ado about nothing. I buy either Kadee #5's or Walthers Protomax couplers in bulk packs. Unless a new acquisition comes with hook horn couplers (those come off immediately and go straight to the trash), I leave whatever it came with in place.

After several months or years, the cheaper plastic knuckle couplers start to cause problems. When they do, I change them out for the Walthers or Kadees. Minor effort, minor expense (ok, the bulk packs are kind of expensive, but they last me for years).


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

VegasN said:


> Simple in theory, not simple in finance. That will come after all my track is laid, terrain is set and all is well on the western front. Been checking into it a lot lately, and it seems to me, the one mentioned and/or used the most seems to be Kadee trucks, couplers, and wheels. But even looking at those, there are a couple different kinds to choose from. Just easy to get lost in a sea of coupler choices. Especially when you don't know whats what and what's best, or most reliable, or more readily available, what's easy to convert to? Almost a learning curve in itself.
> The only thing I know for sure, so far, is I want them all knuckle.....but which ones?


The many different variations available have only made my modelling easier. When you get into converting horn-hooks to knuckle couplers, the different configurations (shank length/underset/centerset/overset) solve a lot of problems. 
I know, when just beginning it can be overwhelming to see all the possible combinations, but with practice it becomes second nature. Definitely will be a learning curve there.
Kadee is the best quality and offers the most options. The rest all have pros and cons - and I use a lot of the rest because some fill a specific need. 
Knuckle vs. horn-hook? Knuckle is the overall winner but in some cases horn-hooks still have a place. For me, if I have a vintage string of cars that will always run together, and will always be pulled and never in switching operations...why go to the time, effort and expense to convert them?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

VegasN said:


> Simple in theory, not simple in finance. That will come after all my track is laid, terrain is set and all is well on the western front. Been checking into it a lot lately, and it seems to me, the one mentioned and/or used the most seems to be Kadee trucks, couplers, and wheels. But even looking at those, there are a couple different kinds to choose from. Just easy to get lost in a sea of coupler choices. Especially when you don't know whats what and what's best, or most reliable, or more readily available, what's easy to convert to? Almost a learning curve in itself.
> The only thing I know for sure, so far, is I want them all knuckle.....but which ones?


Well, you better get learning, boyo....unless your pet peeve is actually learning new stuff, in which case it'll be a very frustrating hobby for you then.....:laugh:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Some great information! That will be very helpful when I get to that point.
In all honesty, I actually like the Rapido, don't have a lot of unwanted uncoupling. Just seem to be pretty reliable, but their looks.........it's a bit TOO unrealistic for my taste. That alone makes them not an option for me anymore.
On my first layout, 3.5' x 5' EZ Track oval, the Rapido worked fine for me. Then my second layout (the bedroom sized bunkbeds), I started getting more rolling stock, started getting a variety of locomotives and the Rapido started causing some connection issues with various cars I wanted to run together. But, I could still work around it, sort of. But, now on my third, and first "real" layout, the Rapido is just not what I want. Of course, 90% of my cars are Rapido and 80% of my locomotives are Knuckle......makes for tricky op sessions.....
But, for now, not going to let this derail me. Been trudging thru it for a year and a half..... But, be prepared, when I go to do that conversion, I will probably be using your expertise and/or experiences to narrow my choices....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

JNXT 7707 said:


> For me, if I have a vintage string of cars that will always run together, and will always be pulled and never in switching operations...why go to the time, effort and expense to convert them?


They don't have to be done all at once. If you spread the time, effort and expense out over several months or years, it's not really much to deal with.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> They don't have to be done all at once. If you spread the time, effort and expense out over several months or years, it's not really much to deal with.


True, and I have pretty much converted all my roster that needs to be converted over a period of years, and now convert as I get something that needs it. 
But the point is, I'm past the point of converting everything just for the sake of converting. A set of aluminum Mantua streamliners is going to run as a set. The old horn-hooks work fine for that and besides, they add to the nostalgia. All I need is a transition car.
I went down a similar path with metal wheelsets, until it occurred to me that there are some cars on the roster that really don't need it. If it rolls like it's on frictionless ball bearings, I leave it alone.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

JNXT 7707 said:


> True, and I have pretty much converted all my roster that needs to be converted over a period of years, and now convert as I get something that needs it.
> But the point is, I'm past the point of converting everything just for the sake of converting. A set of aluminum Mantua streamliners is going to run as a set. The old horn-hooks work fine for that and besides, they add to the nostalgia. All I need is a transition car.
> I went down a similar path with metal wheelsets, until it occurred to me that there are some cars on the roster that really don't need it. If it rolls like it's on frictionless ball bearings, I leave it alone.


And if you read my first post, that's exactly how I feel. I operated for years with a couple of "conversion" cars with a hook horn at one end and a knuckle coupler at the other. And I still don't change out low quality couplers or wheelsets until i start having problems with them. If it ain't broke...


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> And if you read my first post, that's exactly how I feel. I operated for years with a couple of "conversion" cars with a hook horn at one end and a knuckle coupler at the other. And I still don't change out low quality couplers or wheelsets until i start having problems with them. If it ain't broke...


Yeah I'm with you CT. How did you know I missed your first post? :laugh:

I have found myself on various 'crusades' with my collection over the years that I had to reign in before I went nuts. All are well-founded but my OCD tendencies can sometimes stretch them a bit. The last one I think was that I had come to the conclusion that all my wheelsets - plastic or metal - had to be painted. Believe it or not I did about the whole roster before that got old


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

wow....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

VegasN said:


> wow....


:dunno:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> :dunno:


jnxt's obsession over the most minute of details. wow.....not necessarily in a bad way. Although I can see where that could get annoying. But, the attention to detail that would drive you to. That could have it's advantages. 
On the opposite end of the spectrum, is me....impatient. I WANT to take my time......but.....well......not sure if I can. So, that pushes me a little faster than I should be. 

Hey, maybe we could split your OCD and my impatience between us??


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