# Just learned that ATSF had 7 aircraft



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Fascinating history.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I only watched the first few minutes. May watch the rest later.

I read an article about PRR having a combined air/rail system in the early days when planes didn't fly at night. After a little digging, looks like it was PRR, TAT (later TWA) and ATSF. The planes would go as far as they could in the daytime and trains would carry the passengers during the night.
Trains, planes have a historical connection – Baltimore Sun 
TRAINS and PLANES - early plane travel only by day (alphabetilately.org)


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Great thread topic!

CP Rail also had an airline, from 1942 to 1987!

Ironic that some railroads invested in a service that would eventually destroy their passenger carrying business….

Canadian Pacific Airlines


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Great thread topic!
> 
> CP Rail also had an airline, from 1942 to 1987!
> 
> ...


I find it more ironic that they did not invest. The problem is they saw themselves as a railroad company instead of as a transportation company. If I had run one, I would have started a shipping line and an airline, with maybe a short-line trucking company. Get the freight anywhere in the world and keep it all in one company form shipping port overseas to delivery at the customer here. For passengers, you could do it the same way with an airline and a bus company.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Steve Rothstein said:


> I find it more ironic that they did not invest. The problem is they saw themselves as a railroad company instead of as a transportation company. If I had run one, I would have started a shipping line and an airline, with maybe a short-line trucking company. Get the freight anywhere in the world and keep it all in one company form shipping port overseas to delivery at the customer here. For passengers, you could do it the same way with an airline and a bus company.


Canadian Pacific did have ships......until 2005.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And hotels…they had it all, and then pared down to trains and trucks…..

My dad went overseas in 1942 aboard the CP ship Empress of Japan….his group was the last on that ship, when they got to GB, it was re-christened Empress of Scotland, as we were at war with Japan…..


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> Great thread topic!
> 
> CP Rail also had an airline, from 1942 to 1987!
> 
> Ironic that some railroads invested in a service that would eventually destroy their passenger carrying business….


This was post war when people had money, motivation, a lust for life, and a lust for novelty. Trains never did make a buck running passenger service. They all lost heavily, except in and around large urban areas. It's just that the rails were contractually bound to maintain robust passenger service as a condition of grants of money and of land. The CPR tried to be legally free of the obligation of running passenger service on Vancouver Island where I live. They went to court three times over thirty years. Finally the SOC gave them dispensation and the RDC traffic went private. Even that closed in 2012 when nobody would pony up the millions of $$ it would take to restore all the bridges that were being embargoed annually. It still doesn't run.

CPR made a good run of an airline for at least 40 years if I recall. It did a lot better than any passenger trains it ran for 100 years.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I’ll have to watch when I get home. That could be pretty interesting


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Lufthansa offers rail service on Lufthansa trains between over two dozen cities within Germany and to major airport hubs.

Trackage rights are leased from Deutsche Bahn AG.

An example of the opposite. A major world airline with passenger rail service.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

*Railroads operating buses: *In the 1950's Great Northern bought 12 vehicles they called "brucks" (bus + truck) to replace rural passenger routes in Montana. They were made out of school buses by Kenworth. This one is preserved in Whitefish, Montana.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Now THAT would be cool to model!


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

I had no idea!!


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Now THAT would be cool to model!


That’s what I was thinking too. An Airfix or something, even slightly out of scale, hung from the ceiling.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Actually, I was talking about the bus…. 😆


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## CF-DRG (Apr 13, 2020)

Its a "Bruck" not a Bus....


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Santa Fe Skyways...typical government intrusion destroying a successful business.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

The B&O had busses in NYC that ran from their "Train Station" to the ferry that went to New Jersey, where the train actually was. I'd love to pick some of those up, might even break the no automobile rule on my layout for them.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

CF-DRG said:


> Its a "Bruck" not a Bus....


Right…so change my word to bruck…..


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## Sevenhills1952 (Feb 2, 2021)

CF-DRG said:


> Its a "Bruck" not a Bus....


Truss

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Truss is train and bus…..Bruck is bus and truck….


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## CF-DRG (Apr 13, 2020)

What about a Freighter and a Truck.. Oooo dont drop the "R"


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That’s like that old joke….what begins with “f” and ends in “uck”…?

Fire truck…. 🤣


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## Sevenhills1952 (Feb 2, 2021)

A ship and cart is a shart?

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Old_Hobo said:


> Great thread topic!
> 
> CP Rail also had an airline, from 1942 to 1987!


So did CN.

Trans-Canada Airline (later Air Canada) was incorporated by the government of Canada in 1937 as a subsidiary of Canadian National Railway, and reorganized into a separate crown corporation in 1976 (VIA Rail also became a separate corporation during this reorganization). Air Canada was privatized and sold by the government in 1989.

Canadian Pacific Airlines became CP Air became Canadian Airlines, which merged with Air Canada in 2001.


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## NorthwestPennsyGuy (12 mo ago)

OilValleyRy said:


> Fascinating history.


already saw it


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Some of the membership is old enough to have seen it in person.


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## Oldaarpy (12 mo ago)

The Erie and the DL&W had ferry boat service in NYC. Does this count?


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## NorthwestPennsyGuy (12 mo ago)

Oldaarpy said:


> The Erie and the DL&W had ferry boat service in NYC. Does this count?


no cause hundrens of railroads also had ferry service


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Oldaarpy said:


> The Erie and the DL&W had ferry boat service in NYC. Does this count?


Did they fly?


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

MichaelE said:


> Did they fly?


The discussion has expanded to mention railroads that own other types of transportation: trucking, ships (not just car ferries across a river), airlines, etc.


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## Marklx200 (Jun 14, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> I only watched the first few minutes. May watch the rest later.
> 
> I read an article about PRR having a combined air/rail system in the early days when planes didn't fly at night. After a little digging, looks like it was PRR, TAT (later TWA) and ATSF. The planes would go as far as they could in the daytime and trains would carry the passengers during the night.
> Trains, planes have a historical connection – Baltimore Sun
> TRAINS and PLANES - early plane travel only by day (alphabetilately.org)


I saw that. If I recall correctly, they didn't run a passenger service. It was strictly air freight.


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