# Couplers and Trucks????



## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Ok, I have been doing this for over a year now. I am building a large bedroom size N scale layout. Single main line, two track siding with only two Bachmann turnouts, on Bachmann EZ track. I also have two other freelance layouts that are both running what I believe is Atlas track with about 30 Atlas turnouts between the two upper level layouts. I am having a tremendous amount of track issues and couplers issues and derailing issues. So many that I am, and have, seriously considered not doing this anymore. But I do LOVE doing this. When I find a consist that works, and I leave it alone, I have a lot fun. I change cars, or locomotives, or change anything anywhere on any layout and I have coupler and derailing problems for days. Before I change a lot of track or go ripping up sections, I want to change everything I have to one type of trucks and couplers. 
There lies my problem. There are so many out there, how do I know which ones to use? I know I want knuckle couplers and metal wheels. I want to be like so many others, they pull out any locomotive and hook up any cars and go.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Micro Trains trucks and couplers, there isn't any thing better. I use Fox Valley metal wheels and I'm very happy. I run 30-40 car trains on Peco track/switches with hardly any derailments


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

Damn dude, sorry you're having so many issues - how frustrating 



rrjim1 said:


> Micro Trains trucks and couplers, there isn't any thing better. I use Fox Valley metal wheels and I'm very happy.


I second this 100%. Though I don't have a ton of run time on my layout compared to others, from all my past research, I had come to this very same conclusion myself even before I bought my first freight car. My plan is to have all of my freight running on Micro Trains trucks / couplers with Fox Valley wheels. I already converted 3 MT hoppers to Fox Valley wheels a few weeks ago and they run fantastic and smooth... very happy so far.

All that being said, there could be a number of other issues with your track or track plans causing derailments. If you haven't already, you need to do some vigorous derailment testing to look for patterns to try and narrow down / isolate the issues. Possible issues off the top of my head:

S curves can often be problematic. Better to design an S curve with a piece of straight track between the 2 curves so the gravity lean / resistance on a car coming off one turn can "reset in the middle" for a moment before entering a turn with the opposite gravity effect
Factory imperfections in a turnout can frequently cause derailments... the problem is often at the frog. Sometimes the frog is "bumped up" a bit higher than the rail height which makes the wheels jump when hitting it
Miscellaneous ballast / junk next to the inner side of a rail causing the flange to hit it / jump
Long cars (like passenger cars) going around tight-radius turns (no truck or coupler would solve this problem - it's the nature of the body design of a long car)
Cars that are too light or heavy in weight
Cars that have weights placed inside them but the weights are off-center making the car unstable
Are the derailments happening in the same spots?

I did read a review on a logging car I was considering recently, how one person complained the trucks would not turn enough around curves and caused the car to always derail. Turns out the step ladder that drops down from the body was creating a barrier for the truck's turn radius. The guy had to modify the car to remove the step ladders in every corner so the trucks could turn farther and the car could negotiate the turn. Might be something to look into - this would also most likely be a problem on longer cars and not the shorter ones.

I would do as much testing as you can before you start forking over a ton of money into trucks / coupler / wheel conversions!


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## 89Suburban (Jan 4, 2017)

VegasN said:


> Ok, I have been doing this for over a year now. I am building a large bedroom size N scale layout. Single main line, two track siding with only two Bachmann turnouts, on Bachmann EZ track. I also have two other freelance layouts that are both running what I believe is Atlas track with about 30 Atlas turnouts between the two upper level layouts. I am having a tremendous amount of track issues and couplers issues and derailing issues. So many that I am, and have, seriously considered not doing this anymore. But I do LOVE doing this. When I find a consist that works, and I leave it alone, I have a lot fun. I change cars, or locomotives, or change anything anywhere on any layout and I have coupler and derailing problems for days. Before I change a lot of track or go ripping up sections, I want to change everything I have to one type of trucks and couplers.
> There lies my problem. There are so many out there, how do I know which ones to use? I know I want knuckle couplers and metal wheels. I want to be like so many others, they pull out any locomotive and hook up any cars and go.


I feel your pain and am currently in the same boat seeking the same fix.


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## Shadow001 (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm just guessing, I am sgt Schultz (sp)at the moment. I was watching some video today and the guy said to make sure you have a Jig of sort to check the height of all your couplers. I'm guessing they can go our of alignment?


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Well. I certainly have many things to look at. To be honest, I believe it is a combination of many of those things.
I do know, regardless of track issues, which I do have them, I do want all my trucks and couplers the same. I want to put any series of cars behind any locomotive (within reason) and run.
But, in the mean time. I still have the East Loop of Betzville, which is where my rail yard will be. That track and incline sets still need to be done. In Serenity, there is structures to get, landscaping to do, roads to be fixed, trees to plant. In Cocoa Summit, there is structures to get, a 3rd section to hook up, landscaping to fix, and/or add.....
So, my plan is to get the rail yard done and go over all my track with a fine tooth comb (non abrasive of course) securing, leveling, filing, whatever, to get it all in good shape. Replace broken turnouts. Once I get the rail yard done, I can store cars there until they get fixed and/or truck, wheel, and coupler conversions. Luckily, I don't have 60 or more cars to do. I only have 58 in all total, and 9 of those are locomotives, so they will only be couplers.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*"jigs of some sort"*



Shadow001 said:


> I'm just guessing, I am sgt Schultz (sp)at the moment. I was watching some video today and the guy said to make sure you have a Jig of sort to check the height of all your couplers. I'm guessing they can go our of alignment?


Shaddow001;

I think the "jig" you're referring to is the Micro Trains coupler and track gauge. It is used to measure the height of couplers to get them all set the same. It also checks (rather basically) the "track gauge" which is the distance between the rails, and the wheel gauge which is (duh) the distance between the wheels on an axle. 
All these things are important for proper running and reducing derailments. Another gauge tool that every model railroad should have is the NMRA standards gauge. It goes further, with additional measurements for all the parts of turnouts. Turnouts cause more derailments than any other type of track.

This photo shows both the NMRA gauge, on the left and the Micro Trains one on the top right. The "T"-shaped item at the bottom right is another type of track gauge. You won't need it unless you're planning to hand-lay track or scratch build your own turnouts. Each gauge comes with excellent directions. I highly recommend getting and using both of these essential tools. Once all the measurements they can make are adjusted properly you should be a lot happier with very few derailments.









regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Thank you. Hopefully that expense is not too steep.


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## Shadow001 (Dec 15, 2016)

traction fan said:


> I think the "jig" you're referring to is the Micro Trains coupler and track gauge.
> 
> Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


Thank you sir, That is exactly what it was.


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Nope, not bad at all. Found it on Walthers for $12.00. So I think I might order that Friday.
I think I'll worry about the Micro Trains coupler gauge when I start converting over the trucks, wheels, and couplers. In the mean time I can use this to diagnose the track issues.
Thank you very much for this info!!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Another trick*



VegasN said:


> Nope, not bad at all. Found it on Walthers for $12.00. So I think I might order that Friday.
> I think I'll worry about the Micro Trains coupler gauge when I start converting over the trucks, wheels, and couplers. In the mean time I can use this to diagnose the track issues.
> Thank you very much for this info!!


VegasN;

Another way to check coupler height is to cut a notch in the middle of your NMRA gauge, just the size of a coupler knuckle. You will first need to have the Micro Trains (and NMRA) specification for coupler height above the rail tops. I checked their website. The center parting line between the top and bottom halves of the coupler should be .216" or 5.5mm. above the rail tops. With the NMRA gauge's "Track" side set vertically on the rails; I scribed this height center line on the gauge. Then by holding a coupler with the parting line on my scribe mark, I was able to mark the top and bottom lines for the hole. I have used this hole in the NMRA gauge trick, and found it to be more accurate than eyeball guessing that the knuckle on the car's coupler is exactly the same height as the knuckle on the Micro Trains gauge. The coupler on their gauge also droops a bit, so it can be something of a "rubber yardstick" when trying to get a height match. I quickly found out that I needed a second hole, at the bottom of the gauge, to allow the trip pin/"air hose to project under the gauge and out of the way.
When both holes were in place, I could match a coupler to the exact height by slowly rolling a car up next to the gauge with the knuckle either fitting through the hole, or not. This strict, go/ no go system lets me get all my couplers to exactly the same height. Having them all the same height is very important for keeping them coupled. Knuckle couplers at different heights can come uncoupled easily, and at the worst times and places! 
When you really get seriously involved with mounting couplers, you may want to get the Micro Trains gauge too. It has measurements for the correct car floor height, for body mounting couplers and trip pin height above the rail tops. This last spec. is high enough to clear grade crossing planks, but low enough to be operated by their uncoupling magnets. I like the magnetic, delayed uncoupling feature of Micro Trains couplers. Many others prefer to do their uncoupling with a sharp stick that can be inserted into the coupler knuckles. If you use this system, you can just remove the trip pin/"air hoses" and not have to bother adjusting them. 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

traction fan said:


> VegasN;
> 
> Another way to check coupler height is to cut a notch in the middle of your NMRA gauge, just the size of a coupler knuckle. You will first need to have the Micro Trains (and NMRA) specification for coupler height above the rail tops. I checked their website. The center parting line between the top and bottom halves of the coupler should be .216" or 5.5mm. above the rail tops. With the NMRA gauge's "Track" side set vertically on the rails; I scribed this height center line on the gauge. Then by holding a coupler with the parting line on my scribe mark, I was able to mark the top and bottom lines for the hole. I have used this hole in the NMRA gauge trick, and found it to be more accurate than eyeball guessing that the knuckle on the car's coupler is exactly the same height as the knuckle on the Micro Trains gauge. The coupler on their gauge also droops a bit, so it can be something of a "rubber yardstick" when trying to get a height match. I quickly found out that I needed a second hole, at the bottom of the gauge, to allow the trip pin/"air hose to project under the gauge and out of the way.
> When both holes were in place, I could match a coupler to the exact height by slowly rolling a car up next to the gauge with the knuckle either fitting through the hole, or not. This strict, go/ no go system lets me get all my couplers to exactly the same height. Having them all the same height is very important for keeping them coupled. Knuckle couplers at different heights can come uncoupled easily, and at the worst times and places!
> ...


 I have thought about the magnetic system, but I think I am of the old school that prefers to be able to uncouple anywhere on the layout, and also do not wish to deal with unwanted uncoupling, as I have heard from many professional model railroaders (how cool would that job be??) does happen. 
But that issue aside, I still want to be able to uncouple anywhere. 
I have read, at the very beginning of my REAL layout, that if you wish to do more than just run a flat oval, you will want to upgrade your trucks, wheels, and couplers to match. I have also heard from even many here, that metal wheels are far superior.
So, I will get my rail yard track laid, get that all running. Then I will, even if one by one, convert my cars over to all matching.


Now, that brings me to my next question, which trucks, couplers, and wheels should I go with?


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## Tony35 (Mar 18, 2016)

VegasN said:


> I have thought about the magnetic system, but I think I am of the old school that prefers to be able to uncouple anywhere on the layout, and also do not wish to deal with unwanted uncoupling, as I have heard from many professional model railroaders (how cool would that job be??) does happen.
> But that issue aside, I still want to be able to uncouple anywhere.
> I have read, at the very beginning of my REAL layout, that if you wish to do more than just run a flat oval, you will want to upgrade your trucks, wheels, and couplers to match. I have also heard from even many here, that metal wheels are far superior.
> So, I will get my rail yard track laid, get that all running. Then I will, even if one by one, convert my cars over to all matching.
> ...


You can uncouple anywhere with a small skewer stick 

Yes metal wheels help but you better have good trackwork or you will get derails plus add weight to cars that need it

I like MTL couplers 
You have choices for what era you want with MTL trucks
FVM metal wheels is my first choice 

Of course this is just my .02
YMMV


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Coupler and truck brands*

VegasN;

I second Tony35; on the Micro Trains trucks and Fox Valley metal wheels, though I've used other brands of metal wheels, and they all seem to work well. If you go with M T trucks, you may want to consider whether you want the couplers mounted on the trucks (called "talgo") or on the car body, M T offers their trucks with, or without, couplers. Body mounted couplers are less prone to derail cars being pushed backwards in switching. The forces are sent through the center-line of the car frame, as on the prototype, not through a series of levers that turn the trucks, and can press the wheels against the rails. However body mounting couplers is a lot more work than having them already mounted for you on the trucks. Truck mounted couplers also pass through tight curves better, at least going forward. So if your layout has some 11" or smaller radius curves, you may want truck mounted couplers for that reason. Just what you needed something else to decide!

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Haha. I know right? More decisions than buying a house.
Yeah, I think I'll stick to truck mounted, at least for awhile. I don't plan on doing a whole lot of backing up. Just into a siding from time to time. None of my turns on Betzville with Bachmann EZ track are less than 24". On Serenity, and Cocoa Summit, I believe none of those turns appear to be less than 20", maybe 18", but I doubt it. I laid the track in Betzville, but the other two, the track was already in place. I am just replacing sections as I go through it all.
Thank you for all the info. Trucks and couplers are ridiculously more complicated than it needs to be. I am sure I will be much happier once they are all converted over and the same. I will also be ordering an NMRA Standards Gauge on Friday. 
You know, I have a confession to make here. I heard of the NMRA Standards Gauge way back when I first started this. I thought it was a bit too anal for me. I thought it was for people whom are not professionals, but just want to look like they are. Now, I know differently. I see the obvious benefits of having one. I also believe it will become almost indispensable to me. Once I get it, I will be going over every inch of my tracks.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Good choices*



VegasN said:


> Haha. I know right? More decisions than buying a house.
> Yeah, I think I'll stick to truck mounted, at least for awhile. I don't plan on doing a whole lot of backing up. Just into a siding from time to time. None of my turns on Betzville with Bachmann EZ track are less than 24". On Serenity, and Cocoa Summit, I believe none of those turns appear to be less than 20", maybe 18", but I doubt it. I laid the track in Betzville, but the other two, the track was already in place. I am just replacing sections as I go through it all.
> Thank you for all the info. Trucks and couplers are ridiculously more complicated than it needs to be. I am sure I will be much happier once they are all converted over and the same. I will also be ordering an NMRA Standards Gauge on Friday.
> You know, I have a confession to make here. I heard of the NMRA Standards Gauge way back when I first started this. I thought it was a bit too anal for me. I thought it was for people whom are not professionals, but just want to look like they are. Now, I know differently. I see the obvious benefits of having one. I also believe it will become almost indispensable to me. Once I get it, I will be going over every inch of my tracks.


 VegasN;

Both your choices are good ones. First, to use truck-mounted couplers on your generous curves (I'm a little jealous, my min. radius is 16".) 
And second, getting that NMRA gauge. You're quite right. It's one of the most important tools on any model railroad. When trying to help some newbie who's having derailment problems, that's my first recommendation Get an NMRA gauge and go over every inch of track, every set of wheels, and check all the possible adjustments on each turnout. (where 90% of derailments occur) 
I didn't know there was a job title of "professional model railroader." I know there are companies that build model railroads for (hefty) fees, but what little I've read about them seems to call their employees "Craft people" or something like that. I don't know if this is the job you're referring to, or if there is a different job called professional model railroader. Yes it would be a fun job, but maybe not for very long. It seems, no matter what we do for a living, it gets old, and boring, pretty quickly. It might take the fun out of it. 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Yes, I am referring to people who make money model railroading. People like Rasch Studios, YouTubers, Model RR magazine Editors and/or contributors. And even the testers in the factories. Anyone who gets paid to play with trains, rather than pay to play with trains. I know some YouTubers make good money. And Rasch studios.....oooowweeee.......pricey to say the least. I would be happy if I could just get the hobby to support itself, that would be awesome!:thumbsup:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

I ordered the NMRA Standards Gauge today. I didn't get it from Walther's, they wanted $11.95 shipping on a $12.00 item. Just couldn't see paying 100% shipping.
So I got it from MTS.com for $12.00 and $8.35 shipping. So, it will be on it's way shortly.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Shipping?*



VegasN said:


> I ordered the NMRA Standards Gauge today. I didn't get it from Walther's, they wanted $11.95 shipping on a $12.00 item. Just couldn't see paying 100% shipping.
> So I got it from MTS.com for $12.00 and $8.35 shipping. So, it will be on it's way shortly.


 VegasN;

Well, it's good you got the shipping charge down a bit. Maybe it's just me, but that still seems pretty high. An N-scale NMRA gauge would fit in a smaller-than letter-size envelope. " Shipping" would consist of licking a stamp, and sticking it on. Oh well.hwell:
It is what it is.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

My most used phrase......it is what it is.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

I sometimes use Ebay for small items like that, as long as you also use paypal or a CC your safe. There's one on right now for $15. with free shipping. 
IMO $8.35 shipping is a little on the super high side.


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

rrjim1 said:


> I sometimes use Ebay for small items like that, as long as you also use paypal or a CC your safe. There's one on right now for $15. with free shipping.
> IMO $8.35 shipping is a little on the super high side.


It is, but better than $11.95. Plus, I've been burned on ebay before, when I was using it regularly on my old job. Just been leery of it since on personal stuff. Have never bought anything personal on ebay.


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