# another water question.



## hugh (Nov 6, 2014)

I have just finished revamping my layout. I put 1 1/2" foam board over the tables, gave it a coat of brown and laid all new code 83 Peco flextrack. Ran it for a few days to make sure the curves, switches etc were all ok. Now I,m converting a small mountain section from the old layout. It is at one end of the short part of the L shape and has a tunnel for 2 tracks through it and I will be building a small stream with a waterfall down the middle and excavating a small lake in the center of the C shape that will drain through a small creek under the 2 tracks. There is a siding nearby that holds 3 passenger cars and there will be a beach/recreation area. The question is how far down do I dig out the foam and should I line the lake bottom with a plaster coating to keep the Magic Water in the lake basin. I get the impression you only need the lake to be around 1/2" deep in the center so maybe 2 to 3 1/8" thick pours should do the job. Plus the plaster, if that is recommended will be painted a black in the center and green and or brown around the edges to simulate a bit of depth. There will a small dam built at the outlet of the lake and I,m thinking to dig the channel for the creek about 1 14" deep where it runs under the 2 tracks. Does this sound reasonable?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Water containment? depth*

Hugh; 
I think you're right in sealing the bottom of your lake with plaster.The foam would need a lot of disguising to look like a lake bottom. I'm not sure it would not leak either. Water doesn't need to be deep on a model railroad. It just needs to look deep. Paint the center of the plaster lake bottom black, and the edges tan. Fade the two paints together in between. Add any rocks, weeds,trash, Etc. Then let it dry overnight and pour your water material. You should end up with a lake that looks deep in the middle, and shallower along the shore. 

Good Luck!

Traction Fan


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Like traction fan says, your water doesn't need to BE deep. The appearance of depth is provided by the way you paint the bottom. About 1/8 to 1/4" is all you need.

I usually use a thin layer of plaster or Sculptamold to make the bottom of lakes and watercourses. The center is painted black and the sides tans and browns, and selectively garnish them with rocks, deadfall, and vegetation (my railroad exists in a perfect world where people don't litter). Then just a thin layer of water material. If desired, you can use white paint and gloss gel to make rapids, foam, etc.

So, you only need to cut slightly deeper (maybe 1/2-3/4") below where you want the surface of your water to be.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I will agree with the previous posts. The "water" in this scene is a quarter of an inch deep on average. The bottom of the river was airbrushed prior to pouting Walthers water in. As it was drying, I used the side of an old paint brush to give the impression of moving water.


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## hugh (Nov 6, 2014)

*water question*

thanks for the replies, they answer exactly what I needed to know , when in the next couple weeks i build it, I.ll attempt to post a picture


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## DaveInTheHat (Nov 13, 2011)

Woodland Scenics has a pretty good video on how to paint before you pour the resin. I love Magic Water, great stuff. The first time I used it I had a leak. Wasn't pretty.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I did make a mistake. The water is from Woodland Scenics, Not Walthers. Preparation is probably most important. This was my first attempt at water and I can easily live with the results.


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## Model Train Structures (Oct 10, 2013)

In this particular water feature, I wanted it to look like a shallow creek, so instead of painting the bottom, I glued natural stones, sand, etc., then applied my water after the glue was thoroughly dry.

D.A.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Model Train Structures said:


> In this particular water feature, I wanted it to look like a shallow creek, so instead of painting the bottom, I glued natural stones, sand, etc., then applied my water after the glue was thoroughly dry.


Very nicely done, very realistic.


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## N-gager (Apr 30, 2015)

Cut out as much as you like according to how you want the 'banks' to appear. 
Water shouldn't be poured more than 1/8th inch deep in one pouring/drying process - remember; you're creating the 'illusion' of deep water. Plaster and seal the area (paint) and add any submerged items. Let it dry for a couple of days then add your water medium. 
Have you considered using clear acrylic gloss medium? About half the cost of WS product. 
Clear silicon caulking can be used for vertical water-falls. Lot of how-to videos out there.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Acrylic gloss medium is my water material of choice these days. I buy it at Michaels with the discount coupons.

Similarly, gloss gel is very useful for rapids, waterfalls, waves, etc.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Other water materials*

Hugh;

I have not used the woodland senics water. However the posts on this forum are favorable, and woodland senics products are usually good quality. The one bad side to their product line is high cost. If you have the WS material already, go ahead and use it. If you haven't bought it yet here are a couple of lower priced options.

Epoxy; The ordinary, glue kind from Home Depot.

Varnish From the same store.

"Mod Podge" From Michale's or other craft store.

All the above products do the same thing for our "water". They make it look shiny; which in turn makes it look "wet" to the eye.

As said in the prior posts, The painting, or lack thereof, makes it look "deep" or "shallow".
That, combined with the shine, creates a convincing illusion of liquid water.

Send a photo when you can;
Traction Fan


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

Or you can use ModPodge. A glossy sealent. Apply about 10 thin coats.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

SBRacing said:


> Or you can use ModPodge. A glossy sealent. Apply about 10 thin coats.


This thread is a couple months old, and we're discussing similar topics elsewhere, but just in case someone ends up here instead:

Several of us have recommended Mod Podge, including the guy who posted just before you. It is sold as a glue, but it is essentially acrylic gloss medium (which works the same, BTW). Mod Podge is a little thicker than gloss medium, so it can be harder to work into the tight spots.

10 coats is probably overkill. I can get away with 2 pours of about 1/8" thickness each, with maybe a little touch up afterwards.


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## Model Train Structures (Oct 10, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> This thread is a couple months old, and we're discussing similar topics elsewhere, but just in case someone ends up here instead:
> 
> Several of us have recommended Mod Podge, including the guy who posted just before you. It is sold as a glue, but it is essentially acrylic gloss medium (which works the same, BTW). Mod Podge is a little thicker than gloss medium, so it can be harder to work into the tight spots.
> 
> 10 coats is probably overkill. I can get away with 2 pours of about 1/8" thickness each, with maybe a little touch up afterwards.


The times I've used Mod Podge over acrylic paint, I've noticed it changes the color of the water. Well, not the water, but the paint color under the Mod Podge. For example, if I do a brownish-green pond, when it dries, it takes on a bluish tint. Has anyone ever noticed this? I'm wondering if the acrylic paint and Mod Podge are having some type of reaction from the chemicals in the plywood base.

Thanks in advance for your opinions/answers.
D.A.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Never heard of that happening before. My guess would be that the paint isn't quite dry, and some of the blue pigment is being drawn to the top by the emulsifier in the ModPodge. I have seen varnishes leech color from acrylics, but that's always because I top coat it too soon. 

I would make sure the acrylic is fully cured (72 hours or more) before adding ModPodge. 

If you really do suspect chemicals in the wood, you can try sealing it before painting. There are acrylic sealants sold for this purpose.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Model Train Structures said:


> The times I've used Mod Podge over acrylic paint, I've noticed it changes the color of the water. Well, not the water, but the paint color under the Mod Podge. For example, if I do a brownish-green pond, when it dries, it takes on a bluish tint. Has anyone ever noticed this? I'm wondering if the acrylic paint and Mod Podge are having some type of reaction from the chemicals in the plywood base.


Another possible explanation is that the Mod Podge is affecting the light transmission or reflection. Mod Podge may appear clear, but nothing is perfectly clear. All materials (including air and pure water) absorb some wavelengths of light more than others -- and reflect some wavelengths of light more than others. It could be that either the Mod Podge is reflecting more blue light than other colors, or it is absorbing more of the brown and yellow light that is reflected upwards by the acrylic paint, leaving the blue wavelengths to pass through and reach your eyes.

Another important factor is the type of lighting above your layout. Fluorescent bulbs (of all types) are heavy on the blue wavelengths, and lighter on the red wavelengths, so blue colors on your layout get enhanced. Incandescent lights are very weak in the blue wavelengths and very heavy on the red wavelengths (as well as the infra-red, which is heat -- that is why they get so hot). So incandescent bulbs enhance the reds on your layout at the expense of the blues.

P.S. The fact that the color of the water changed as the Mod Podge dried is not inconsistent with my possible explanation. Drying materials undergo chemical changes as they dry, which usually does change their patterns of light reflection and absorption.


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