# Lionel motor diagnosis, trouble shooting and repair?



## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

I am new to the forum, but not new to Lionel.

I caught the Lionel bug back in 1986 when my dad starting collecting some of the postwar trains he had back when he was a kid in the early 50's. 

Even though I am knowledgeable about postwar Lionel, there is so much that I don't know. I still feel like a neophyte, even after years of collecting and operating trains!

A few years ago, I picked up a box of junk at an auction, and in the bottom of the box was an Lionel engine, motor and wheels only. I think this is what is referred to as a "hump back" motor. It is definitely a prewar O gauge motor.

Where do I start when trouble shooting a dead motor? 

When I sit the motor on the track, it just sits there like a lump of coal. No movements, no hum, no nothing.

Wheels turn freely, without any bindings or problems. Axles appear to be straight and unbent. Cloth covered wires are tightly soldered.

Any and all help definitely appreciated!!! 

Thank you in advance!!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think pictures of exactly what you have would help. Are you trying to run it with the E-Unit and motor, or just the bare motor?

Brushes and cleaning the commutator are my first stops after making sure the wiring is intact from the pickups to the motor or E-Unit. Obviously, if it has an E-Unit, that's something that I'd look at closely as well.


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

John,

Thank you for the helpful replies. I appreciate them VERY much!!!

I'll try to get pics up sometime soon.

If you don't mind my dumb questions, can I use a volt meter on the motor while it is on a powered up track to test that electrical current is getting to where it needs to be?

My real hope in this thread is to learn how to diagnose engines, and be able to correctly repair them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sure, but it's probably easier to use an ohmmeter with it on the bench and see if the wires go where they should. Also, if you have a model number or type, you can look up a wiring diagram on Olsen's Library.


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

Thank you.

Any idea what engines had the hump back motor?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A picture would help our pre-war experts ID it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

clovis said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Any idea what engines had the hump back motor?




The early Lionel prewar o gauge hump back motor, I think was used in the 150 series engines and early 253 engines. 
Old that is for sure.

Double check the wires real good, start with the wire the goes down to the pickup.


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

Thank you!!!!!


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

A picture of the humpback motor is here, and parts diagrams for 3 types of motors are here, here, and here.

First, disassemble the brushplate and clean everything including the copper commutator on the armature with naptha. Replace brushes if they are worn. Reassemble the brushplate, and oil the top and bottom armature bearings and the axle bearings with oil. Check to see the locomotive runs. If not, disconnect all the wires from the reverse unit and wire the motor directly to rail power to isolate the reverse unit from being the problem. Use this wiring diagram from a 253 for reference. Connect one brush connection to the pickup, and the other brush connects directly to the motor field winding. Apply power, and the motor should run. Reverse the brush connections to reverse the motor direction. The motor must run this way. If not, further diagnosis will be needed.

Larry


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

Thank you so much!!!!

I really appreciate the help and links!!!

As a side note, I love the prewar 253!


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