# Hudson, everyone has one right!?



## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Well I don't.  If I were looking for a TMCC or newer version what would you guys recommend. I don't need a VL for the little bit I run them.

On the other hand, is there a good older Hudson that could be upgraded, what would that be???

I don't do much steam so thanks for the input! :thumbsup:


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

There are some good buys out there for older scale Hudson. Seems like every year or so there is a new version from either Lionel, MTH, or 3rd Rail that drives the cost of the older versions lower.

Bill


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I am only familiar with New York Central. Lionel has done 7 NYC Hudsons with TMCC. Two unstreamlined J3a's, Two Streamline J3's including a Dreyfuss and 2 Empire State Express (TMCC and Legacy), and the Vision J1E 5344. In the '90s they did quite a few with Pulmore motors but I think only the dark gray Commodore Vanderbilt had TMCC.
My favorite and best detailed are the unstreamlined J3's. Road numbers 5433 and 5444. 5444 was a single sale item and comes up frequently. 5433 was part of the 50th anniversary set and harder to find alone. 

Edit, Bill's suggestion of the K-Line is nice engine too. Great detail. The only downside it has a small Mabuchi motor and starts to get warm with more than 5 18" passenger cars.

3rd Rail did a J1A and J1D with TMCC, no cruise and a J3A Super Hudson with Cruise. Nice engines but may be pricey.

Pete


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

I run mostly Pennsylvania RR but you just gotta have a scale hudson right? I bought a Williams.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

My last puchase of a new Lionel engine was a conventional Union Pacific baby Hudson for just $100.00 on Ebay. 1've run it a lot for freight oprations and like the sounds and smoke. It's been a great runner.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes, Hudsons are cool, sort of the center of the steam locomotive spectrum: big enough they look good and are impressive, yet not so big they look ridiculous going around 72" or even 54" curves. I have six, five of them scale: 

Lionel Vision Hudson NYC 5344 - love that swinging bell!
MTH Premier Hudson NYC 3445 streamlined, grey, with centipede tender
Hudson ATSF 3461 \
Hudson ATSF 3462 |- --- maybe the most detailed steam loco MTH has made, spectacular, and it's Santa Fe!
Hudson ATSF 3465 /
K-Line "semi-scale" Hudson ATSF 3462 - nice older loco, not too detailed - looks crude when set next to MTH's 3462, but a good runner, and I've had if for ages . . . 
f you can find one of these, they are nice traditional sized locos, and fiarly enexpensive..

There is almost always one Hudson or another on the layout, and occasionally, several at once!


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2016)

It's only a matter of time before Lionel produces a Dreyfuss Hudson with a set of 21 inch cars. Until then, I am Dreyfuss Hudsonless. 

I'm in no hurry! Right now the Empire State Husdon and 21's are running on my layout. They look and sound great!

Emile


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

I, too, appreciate the Lionel Vision Hudson. The swinging bell is great. I had a chance to buy one new and passed. Bad move. I actually like the grey version.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Todd Lopes said:


> I, too, appreciate the Lionel Vision Hudson. The swinging bell is great. I had a chance to buy one new and passed. Bad move. I actually like the grey version.


I'm sure putting a WTB out there for the VL model wouldn't have potential sellers salivating!!


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Good Luck Jeff. It is a nice model and a fan favorite. For me, I "try" to have patience and have fun with the process. If you can't find the deal that works for you, there's always another deal out there.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

I have the K Line with upgraded to TMC. Motor was replaced and have no problem with motor getting to warm etc.
Amazed at the detailing.
Odd that you would post, since I was thinking of selling it at next train show. They show up on E-Bay at various prices but also go quickly for the good ones.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sadly, I'm am currently Hudsonless.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Well John, I know what I would ask Santa for if I were you.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Wait a minute, I have to go find a mirror so I can talk directly to Santa.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

I still have my 4-6-4 Hudson from when I was a kid. Runs fairly well, probably could use a good service. The 2046 whistle tender is a bit weak. I might dig into those one of these days.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I really think GRJ has a Hudson. It has to be hidden somewhere!!


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

I sold my VL Hudson. A great engine, but I never ran it. 

Got a substantial bit more than I paid for it.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

A Hudson. No way. That's what NYC ran.

But I do have a K4s Pacific (the standard passenger locomotive of the world).


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> A Hudson. No way. That's what NYC ran.
> 
> But I do have a K4s Pacific (the standard passenger locomotive of the world).


A man after my own heart. As I posted earlier, I have one Williams NYC Hudson because everyone has to have one. I own 3 MTH Premier Pennsy K4 Pacifics though.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a few K4's, so I still have some traction here.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I have memories from childhood of seeing a real Hudson Automobile oh my a time when you could look at a car and know whom made it.

they also did well in destruction derbys!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Hey, I didn't think of Hudson cars! But yes, this means I have even more Hudsons on my layout!

My family and I never owned a real Hudson. I remember only one all the time I was growing up a neighbor had one - boy the back seat in those turtlebacks was a cavern! Just that one: I guess they were rare even in the early fifties.

I have three Hudson cars (models) in my O-Gauge diecast collection, a turtleback police car, around 1950 - easily a candidate for ugliest car ever made - and an early 50s NASCAR type race car, and a '57 Hornet pillarless coupe- almost the last year they were in business and, by looking several years older than 1957 as to styling, giving an indication why they went out of business.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

My Dad had a '48 Hudson. I don't remember much about the car except on a trip to the Adirondacks for a summer vacation the rear seal went out. The garage we stopped at was next to a lumber yard. The fix was to fill the rear end with oil and sawdust. It ran for another 400 miles or so and got us to and back from our vacation but on the way home we hit a frog strangler thunderstorm and the vacuum wipers quit. It was replaced with a '53 Buick Special and my Dad never bought anything but Buicks after that.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Pete


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## JimL (Aug 16, 2015)

highvoltage said:


> I still have my 4-6-4 Hudson from when I was a kid. Runs fairly well, probably could use a good service. The 2046 whistle tender is a bit weak. I might dig into those one of these days.


Me, too. A 2046 set handed down to me from my brother. "Mini-Hudson?" He got it for Christmas ~1952

They don't build solid toys like that, anymore!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I have two. One's a Williams Chessie System and the other is a Lionel #5242 Lionel Lines. Nether are TMCC, but I have a Powermaster connected to the main line and can run conventional engines with my Cab1-L remote.


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## bluecomet400 (Sep 13, 2015)

TheBigCrabCake said:


> It's only a matter of time before Lionel produces a Dreyfuss Hudson with a set of 21 inch cars. Until then, I am Dreyfuss Hudsonless.
> 
> I'm in no hurry! Right now the Empire State Husdon and 21's are running on my layout. They look and sound great!
> 
> Emile


Emile, I'm not sure if you've ever seen the MTH Premier Dreyfuss Hudson from around 2001, but it's a beauty. There are a few on ebay right now that could be yours!!

To me, a Hudson is a must-have, and I feel very fortunate to have 7 of them:
--Lionel 700E #5344
--Lionel #763E black
--Lionel #763E gunmetal
--Lionel #773 (1950 version)
--Lionel #5340 (1990)
--Lionel Commodore Vanderbilt
--MTH Dreyfuss

I agree with Lee: they're perfectly-proportioned but not so big that they look clumsy on the layout.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

bluecomet400 said:


> Emile, I'm not sure if you've ever seen the MTH Premier Dreyfuss Hudson from around 2001, but it's a beauty. There are a few on ebay right now that could be yours!!


The latest MTH Dreyfuss is even more spectacular. Lionel has its work cut out for them to equal it. Plus its offered in 5 different versions. The paint on both the engine and cars makes this set stand out.

Eric did a review of it here:






Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Fixed your link Pete.


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## arkady (May 15, 2013)

Lee Willis said:


> I have three Hudson cars (models) in my O-Gauge diecast collection, a turtleback police car, around 1950 - easily a candidate for ugliest car ever made ...


That "turtleback police car" is a 1949 Nash Airflyte, not a Hudson. As for "ugly," well, I'd say ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I like'em.

As for railroad Hudsons, mine is a Lionel 783. I had to put more work into that locomotive than all my others combined, to get it running properly. It's a good runner now (and has 700E valve gear), but it was a real months-long nightmare to get it that way.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I have 3

K-Line Dreyfuss
MTH Railking
Lionel 763-E from 1937

Bill


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

You guys are older than me. I don't go back to "those" hudsons! Studebakers yes, Hudsons well no...


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

MTH Came out with a set in 2013ish and it was a SF Hudson with 3 passenger cars and a REA Reefer (Troop Train, crew talk was amazing). Lionchief Plus or Railking is nice to but be aware the Railking ones have the tendency to stop quickly and shortly on Atlas switches. I have a older Lionel and a Railking, they don't get run much but I think I should start running them.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

How many versions did MTH make of the Hudson? Some I see have lack of detail, more molded on details, then some highly detailed.
Here's mine. (photos not the best)


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

walter said:


> How many versions did MTH make of the Hudson? Some I see have lack of detail, more molded on details, then some highly detailed.


I think just since 2000 MTH has made many more Hudsons than everyone else combined. Most have unique cab numbers. All of their unstreamlined Hudsons are J1e's. None are quite as detailed as K-Line's but while lacking things like lagging clamps which 3rd Rail and K-Line have most include bell and whistle "ropes".
All of the ones with the "wireless" tethers have cab deck plates and the newest ones include cab curtains. At some point I plan to make castings of the cab curtains to apply to the older versions. I have already started adding deck plates to the engines that don't have them which require replacing the right angle tether with a straight one.
Ironically Lionel's Vision Hudson which has the best features has the least detail. It runs so well though I can overlook that fact.

Pete


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Norton said:


> . . . .All of their (MTH} unstreamlined Hudsons are J1e's.
> 
> Pete


Well, not exactly: I have what I think is both the most impressive Hudson ever made and one of the very the best models MTH makes, the Premier MTH model of the ATSF 3460 class Hudsons. The three in the photo below are all PS3, super detailed, good running models, with great sound and incredible smoke. The 3460s are often overlooked because they were overshadowed by the subsequent ATSF Northerns, which were pretty much just like them with an extra driver added. But they were fantastic locos, nearly as fast as the J1es and later developments of them on the flat express service (100 mph peaks with average of 90 mph in stages across Kansas) but good going over the continental divide, too, on their way to LA. 3460 was streamlined for the Santa Fe Blue Goose, the others, including the three I have, never were. 

I agree about the Vision Hudson (top in the photo) detail, somewhat. It's pretty good, and makes for a great looking loco, although I much prefer the bigger ATSF ones. And of course, there is that swinging bell: as good a gimmick as it gets - so much better than a disappearing coal load.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

True. I should have said all of MTH's New York Central Unstreamlined Hudsons are J1's.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The swinging bell is neat, I have the PRR Vision Line CC2 that has the swinging bell, whistle steam, and steam blowdown, very cool. I was quite impressed with the swinging bell mechanism, very simple with a magnet under the boiler shell.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

OK, so for the last couple days I have been looking at Hudsons. Found a VL video on youtube and my bride was amazed by the swinging bell, til I told her what they are running, $$$$.

Her input is important as her "like" of trains comes from an Uncle who had holes cut through the walls of his second story Cape Cod style home to run his HO trains. Even the bathroom!

I'm a Lionel guy so that's where I'll focus for now. I'm thinking Pete's suggestion would work best for me, unstreamlined J3's, road numbers 5433 and 5444.

As they say, so now the hunt begins!!

Thanks for all the suggestions!!!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Norton said:


> True. I should have said all of MTH's New York Central Unstreamlined Hudsons are J1's.
> 
> Pete


that is true. The only J3 I have is the MTH Dreyfus, which is really, really an outstanding looker and nice runner, too. A shame non survive.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Dreyfus Hudson is one that should have made it to a museum somewhere, that's a shame they all got chopped up.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The swinging bell is neat, I have the PRR Vision Line CC2 that has the swinging bell, whistle steam, and steam blowdown, very cool. I was quite impressed with the swinging bell mechanism, very simple with a magnet under the boiler shell.


As "gimmicks" go it is one of the best, and something I actually wish Lionel would put in most of their steamers. It would raise operating the bell from something I do once a week to something i do a lot.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The swinging bell is neat, I have the PRR Vision Line CC2 that has the swinging bell, whistle steam, and steam blowdown, very cool. I was quite impressed with the swinging bell mechanism, very simple with a magnet under the boiler shell.


As "gimmicks" go it is one of the best, and something I actually wish Lionel would put in most of their steamers. It would raise operating the bell from something I do once a week to something i do a lot. 

Edit addition: I have actually toughtt of adding one to a LC+ loco: I had one apart to put on a new custom shell, and it would take some time but ought to be a simple thing to build your own mechanism to make the bell swing back and forth, copying the very clever Lionel design. The deal-breaker for me, though, was that I didn't think I could syncronize it with the bell sound, which I think is sort of important.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee, using the Sound Converter from ERR, you do have an output when you ring the bell, so you could just run the circuit that swings the bell. True, it wouldn't be synchronized exactly to the bell motion, but it would be hard to tell what was happening. For conventional operation, you can use a simple bell detection circuit to provide power to the magnet.

If you could buy the parts from Lionel for the bell, getting it swinging shouldn't be that much trouble. A couple say must contact Lionel, but I think I could probably get them.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I have identified the bell activation wire from the LC+ board, but I had never thought about just buying the parts for one from Lionel. Smart move. I may rethink this in the future.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm lazy, trying to invent these parts would be too much trouble!


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

*hudsons*

well, I've got 3 postwar lionels. great runners and pullers.

646, 2046, 2065

someday i'm going to pull the trigger on a k-line 5343

almost forgot my little 221 Dreyfus. lionels postwar version of nyc dreyfus with incorrect 2-6-4 wheel arrangement


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Found this link from Toy Train Review. Two Dreyfuss Hudsons. One is a MTH 20-3045-1 and the other is a Lionel 6-28084.

http://www.toytrainrevue.com/prod-3-3.htm


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2016)

I have two Hudsons, a Railking Dreyfus and a LionChief Plus NYC.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

This is the MTH Railking Northern Pacific Hudson ( the real NP never had any Hudsons ). Its a great runner with very good sounds and whistle. This loco probably has more hours and miles on it than any other CC loco that I have.

Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

That is a really handsome RK Hudson. Railking seems to get the proportions just right - I really like what MTH does with that series.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I do not know why my mind went to "hudson car" instead of the hudson steam engine but both are truly classics of times past!


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

So what makes a Hudson locomotive a Hudson? It looks like there are a few different versions or styles.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

balidas said:


> So what makes a Hudson locomotive a Hudson? It looks like there are a few different versions or styles.


The New York Central was one of the first if not the first company to have built a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement so they named theirs "Hudson". Other companies could have named their 4-6-4s something else but I guess the name stuck. The big engines on the NYC are named after the rivers that the line follows on the "Water Level Route" including Mohawk and Niagara.

Pete


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes, a Hudson is a 4-6-4, although some people I know argue that unless the Railroad running it had tracks that ran alongside the Hudson River, it really didn't have the right to use the term Hudson - it was just a 4-6-4. I don't know though, some mighty fine Hudsons ran over rails way out west - big, fast, and gorgeous ones.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Some roads simply wouldn't give another RR credit for a good design especially a competitor. I doubt if the PRR ever made a Hudson would they have called it that. SP had 2-10-2s but never called them Santa Fe's.

Pete


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Norton said:


> The New York Central was one of the first if not the first company to have built a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement so they named theirs "Hudson". Other companies could have named their 4-6-4s something else but I guess the name stuck. The big engines on the NYC are named after the rivers that the line follows on the "Water Level Route" including Mohawk and Niagara.
> 
> Pete





Lee Willis said:


> Yes, a Hudson is a 4-6-4, although some people I know argue that unless the Railroad running it had tracks that ran alongside the Hudson River, it really didn't have the right to use the term Hudson - it was just a 4-6-4. I don't know though, some mighty fine Hudsons ran over rails way out west - big, fast, and gorgeous ones.


Ok so it's based on wheel arrangements. I'll have to dig thru my stuff & see what I got.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The 4-6-4 was actually first used in France and called the Baltic.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2016)

Following Bill's lead, these are my Hudsons:

Railking Dreyfus








LionChief Plus


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

My favorite Hudson running on the Seattle & Yakima RR. The original Lionel 763-E from 1937. Still runs like fine Swiss watch.

Bill


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Here are some baby hudsons. From the top, PW 2046, Charles Ro Hudson kit, Williams, K-Line. The Charles Ro Hudson consisted of a body and a 2426 tender minus whistle. The buyer had to provide a 2046/2056 mechanism.










Better look of the K-Line baby Hudson. This is conventional but K-Line also made them with TMCC. Very nice runner.










Pete


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Kinda partial to my K Line NYC 5343 with the detailing. Love the Hudson, but its going for something I want more. Probable cut my wrist after she leaves. I don't see many of these ever for sale.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

oh my is it 1950's again drool :smilie_daumenpos:




Norton said:


> Here are some baby hudsons. From the top, PW 2046, Charles Ro Hudson kit, Williams, K-Line. The Charles Ro Hudson consisted of a body and a 2426 tender minus whistle. The buyer had to provide a 2046/2056 mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Since you guys are posting pictures of your really nice looking Hudsons. It behooves me to post mine. 

Williams #8303 








Lionel #5242


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

walter said:


> Kinda partial to my K Line NYC 5343 with the detailing. Love the Hudson, but its going for something I want more. Probable cut my wrist after she leaves. I don't see many of these ever for sale.


That K Line is beautiful! I always love the open spoke drivers.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Good looking engine. I like K-Line too, but parts are almost impossible to get.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Yep, I got one.










WBB scale Jersey Central Blue Comet


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