# Sticky  Confused about size variances in O gauge? Then look here!



## Boston&Maine

Anyone who has looked into the world of O gauge has discovered that there are many sizes. Below are some photographs that I hope will help outline what will size-up with what.


For reference, the MTH Premier Line is 1:48 scale, which is the definition of O scale. All products in the Atlas Big O, Atlas Master, Atlas Trainman, K-Line O Scale, Lionel Standard O, and Weaver lines are also 1:48 scale and match the size of the MTH Premier Line car shown below.
It appears that the Atlas Industrial Rail, K-Line O-27, Lionel Traditional, and MTH Rugged Rails product lines are equal in size and would be classified as being O-27 gauge.
As the pictures show, the MTH Railking Line falls between O scale and O-27 gauge. In fact, there are even three categories within this product line - Railking, Railking Imperial, and Railking Scale. More about this can be read here.
Credit for the images below belongs to a gentleman named Sean from another forum. He did a great job showing the differences 👍











MTH Premier v. MTH Railking









MTH Premier v. Lionel Traditional









MTH Railking v. Lionel Traditional









MTH Railking v. MTH Rugged Rails









Lionel Traditional v. Atlas Industrial Rail









Lionel Traditional v. K-Line O-27









Lionel Traditional v. MTH Rugged Rails









MTH Premier v. Lionel Prewar 

_Mod edit: embedded missing graphics_​


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## tjcruiser

B&M,

Thanks for the info. Interesting comparison. That's "my guys" in that last pic ... prewar tinplate Lionel ... baby O ... ohh baby, ohh baby!

TJ


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## Big Ed

And the model house in the back ground looks like a real house too.:thumbsup:


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## servoguy

The model house in the background looks like a photograph.
Bruce Baker


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## gunrunnerjohn

I guess they were going for "biggest on the block" with the *MTH Premier* line.


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## zipper69

Finally some scale in a visual format. Thanks!


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## ceilingtrains.com

Thats great. I have customers that want the largest O Scale cars for my ceilingtrains bridges i build and i just don't have all the answers so now i know too. Thanks...Bob


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## T-Man

The picture has a lot of great shadows. It must of been taken late afternoon or the early morning. Plus the fact that it is blown up for a backdrop. Good Find!


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## joe7034

Thanks for the help with the scale, now lets talk about the wheels, are the prewar lionel wheels deeper than the post war? or is that the diffence between true O and O-27.
My pre war trains run fine on the fast track until they come up to a switch or accessory track, the rails are not deep enough for the wheels.
thanks
joe


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## servoguy

The flanges on the prewar wheels are larger than the flanges on the post war wheels. The prewar crossings don't work well with postwar cars, and vice-versa. The crossing carry the same part number, so you have to test them. I haven't tried 022 switches.


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR

The shadows of a nearby tree on the house move/change from photo to photo - this a piece of FasTrack set on a a piece of Trex which likely is the cap piece for a deck, with the neighbor's house in the background. We could probably tell in which order these photos were taken, if we really cared.

Great comparison, though. Definitely some food for thought.


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## goraman

I don't think that Lionel has a standard O/27 gauge.
As there O gauge is all over the place. Some boxcars are just longer and not as tall some are shorter and a little taller.

As far as I'm concerned only there track is consistent.
O gauge is a confusing mess. I should have just gone with G.


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## Big Ed

goraman said:


> I don't think that Lionel has a standard O/27 gauge.
> As there O gauge is all over the place. Some boxcars are just longer and not as tall some are shorter and a little taller.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned only there track is consistent.
> O gauge is a confusing mess. I should have just gone with G.



:laugh:

Once you learn about the differences of O and O/27 it is not that confusing.

O track is a bit taller then O/27, but most of the O will run on O/27. It is the curves and switches that will give true O trains a problem.
I would say that all O/27 will run on O.

I run on O/27 track and mix O sized box cars with O/27 box cars.
I don't care. O are just a bit bigger.

If your new to O and O/27 check out this site to learn, when done click down the bottom of the page to view a lot more info. There is a ton of usefull info on Thors site.

But by all means ask here too ,you need to.

edit,
http://www.thortrains.net/otrix1.htm


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## goraman

big ed said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Once you learn about the differences of O and O/27 it is not that confusing.
> 
> O track is a bit taller then O/27, but most of the O will run on O/27. It is the curves and switches that will give true O trains a problem.
> I would say that all O/27 will run on O.
> 
> I run on O/27 track and mix O sized box cars with O/27 box cars.
> I don't care. O are just a bit bigger.
> 
> If your new to O and O/27 check out this site to learn, when done click down the bottom of the page to view a lot more info. There is a ton of usefull info on Thors site.
> 
> But by all means ask here too ,you need to.
> 
> edit,
> http://www.thortrains.net/otrix1.htm


Thanks,but i'm pretty much done as my sons train now has 10 cars and 50X110 of of fast track,good enough for a 2 years olds Christmas present.


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## trainguru

*Blimey!*

It's a world gone MAD!!!  Too many varients... so dizzy!


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## Evil Caesar

Great reference page thank you. So I found a RMT flat car I would like to aquire. Any idea how it will hold up next to Lionel traditional?


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## old464

for out of scale O, check the Lionel Crossing gate and signal from the 80's and the gateman is also larger than it should be. When you compare the railking buildings Doors and figures and then place the old Lionel gateman beside. Gateman looks like a giant! 

I also noticed the differences in the K-line box cars and the MTH and newer lionel ones. kind of crazy. 

Chris


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## gunrunnerjohn

Most of the old PW accessories like the crossing signal, banjo signal, etc., are far larger than scale.


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## 3155 warrior

Thank you, you answered one of my posts and made it real clear, I am a Postwar Lionel guy with some MTH and Atlas Industrial.


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## JPLOF

that house in the background looked like the real thing


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## gunrunnerjohn

It's a real house, isn't Photoshop a wonderful thing?


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## 3 guage

*Making it match*

I have a Williams ABA set in Illinois Central . I bought 8 Lionel passenger cars to go with them. The Williams were all larger . Having seen this mistake I like The Williams cars better but can't seem to find the passenger cars to go with it. Anybody know a seller of these kinds of cars.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The best bet is probably set up a search on eBay and wait for someone to come along with a set.


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## Big Ed

3 guage said:


> I have a Williams ABA set in Illinois Central . I bought 8 Lionel passenger cars to go with them. The Williams were all larger . Having seen this mistake I like The Williams cars better but can't seem to find the passenger cars to go with it. Anybody know a seller of these kinds of cars.



What passenger cars did you get?
I would think some Lionel heavyweights would go with them.

They sell Williams/Bachmann O scale, I never looked at any close up.
Dimensions,
navigates 0-42 curves​ single-car length 17.75", height 3.625

Take a look,​http://www.wholesaletrains.com/OProducts2.asp?Scale=O&Item=WLMSHVYWTS


I would have to pull them out and look, but I think my Lionel heavyweights are just as big if not bigger.


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## CCrider

i understand the differences between the models and brands,but what brand would be considered the closest to being true o scale?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Thee isn't a single "brand" that is "true" O-scale. Each maker, Lionel, MTH, Williams, Atlas, etc. has some true 1:48 "scale" items and some "semi-scale", typically a bit smaller. You have to zero in on the actual item within a brand to know if it's really O-scale.

Note that I'm not talking about Europe here, where 1:43 is considered "true" O-scale.


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## hgarrison3

If I remember correctly The cross ties on the O-27 were brown and on the traditional o gauge they are black. The 27 stood for the radius of the turns. The O-27 were designed to use a smaller layout a full circle is just a bit over 2 feet. My layout uses traditional 0-72 (a full circle would be 6 feet) just so I can run any engine on it. The rails were a little taller on the O-27 to make it a little harder to derail.
Herman


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## gunrunnerjohn

The color of the ties is not universal. I've seen brown, black, and silver O27, and I have in my possession black and silver tie O31 track. I'm pretty sure I had some O31 that had brown ties as well.

The ties are a different shape on O31 track, they have "ears" where the O27 track ties are normally formed square.

The taller rails on O31 have no effect on the propensity to derail AFAIK.


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## srfulton

This is a great thread. Too bad I had to find out the hard way. Love those williams box cars, almost a 1/2 inch difference in hieght. Thanks


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## Dug

Does the 'O' in O scale stand for an abbreviated word or is just the letter of the alphabet that came up next when listing scales like A,1:1 B, 1:2 ? Is the O in 027 a zero or the letter O and does it possibly mean CIRCLE = 27 inches? Probably a search term that would answer these question but I'm search impaired.


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## gunrunnerjohn

O27 means a circle will have a diameter of 27" (roughly). Tubular and Fastrack are measured slightly different, so O31 in tubular won't be exactly the same as the new O31 Fastrack, but close.


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## Dug

*Thanks John*

Please share a search term or thread name to tell me what the O in O scale or HO, or other letters to designate different scales, stand for. Thanks Doug


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## Big Ed

Dug said:


> Please share a search term or thread name to tell me what the O in O scale or HO, or other letters to designate different scales, stand for. Thanks Doug


I don't think the O stands for anything.

Does this help you a little? 
There are more but these are the main ones.









Now O scale gets a little tricky, as O/27 is a bit smaller, that is explained in the beginning here in this thread.

Notice that ON30 runs on 5/8's wide, as is HO and HOn30, a different size but these run on the same tracks.


Edit,
There is an SG that stands for standard gauge it is bigger then the G. By the way G stands for garden trains.
O I don't think it stands for anything but HO stands for half of O.


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## gunrunnerjohn

O stands for "O, that's bigger than that little HO train!"


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## tjcruiser

Technically (and historically), it was "Zero Gauge", rather than "Ohh Gauge" ...

From wiki ...

The name for O gauge and O scale is derived from "0 [zero] gauge" or "Gauge 0", because it was smaller than Gauge 1 and the other existing standards. It was created in part because manufacturers realized their best selling trains were the smaller scales.


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## eljefe

TJ's right about the O originally being a zero. As Ed states, HO was named for being roughly "Half of O scale" and G is for Garden scale since it often used outdoors. TT is for Table Top. Z scale was so-named because if was thought to be the smallest scale anyone could build a working model train, but then the even smaller T scale came along. I don't know the reason N scale was named that.

Bottom line is there's little science or consistency behind these names.


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## Big Ed

Now that you said that TJ, I seem to remember servoguy stating that too when we were discussing track or switches one time.

I got to thinking about S standing for standard gauge and realized that we have S for S gauge trains.

So I changed that to SG for standard gauge. I just took a guess. :dunno:
Someone correct me if I am wrong.


I wonder what DUG thinks?


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## Dug

*Thanks Ed, John, TJ, Eljefe*

I was foolishly looking for some metric system like analogy to describe the progression in gauge/scale designations. 

Finding no overriding formula, I revel in the complexity. It appears to me that some names came from size variations (1 gage and zero gage) some came about as marketing schemes (Lionel radius 27 inches).

Great info, Thanks again for you help. I think I'll go loiter in the 'How to Post pictures' thread and see if I can figure out how to make a Gallery. Doug


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## tjcruiser

I don't think Standard Gauge ever had a number/letter designation, Ed. It used 2-1/8" track which Lionel dubbed "the Standard of the world" as a marketing ploy, to strongly suggest that any other track was somehow sub-standard or inferior.

TJ


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## Big Ed

Dug said:


> I was foolishly looking for some metric system like analogy to describe the progression in gauge/scale designations.
> 
> Finding no overriding formula, I revel in the complexity. It appears to me that some names came from size variations (1 gage and zero gage) some came about as marketing schemes (Lionel radius 27 inches).
> 
> Great info, Thanks again for you help. I think I'll go loiter in the 'How to Post pictures' thread and see if I can figure out how to make a Gallery. Doug



Dug, take note we do have a picture gallery problem that it seems no one can fix.

Read about the problem here, 

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=16843
you can post in the gallery but all your pictures will only show up under one picture!
Messes up the whole thing!

Here is an example, this member has posted different pictures but see how it comes out in the gallery? They are all the same header picture but if you click on them you will see a different picture.
I wish someone could fix this, I went to clean all my pictures up so they were more organized and found this problem.
I ended up deleting all my pictures. And am still waiting for a fix to re-post them.
I would say this is a loss for the site as others stopped posting in the gallery too.
Example,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=3&userid=6849



tjcruiser said:


> I don't think Standard Gauge ever had a number/letter designation, Ed. It used 2-1/8" track which Lionel dubbed t"he Standard of the world" as a marketing ploy, to strongly suggest that any other track was somehow sub-standard or inferior.
> 
> TJ


Yep now that you said that I seem to remember reading the same quote somewhere.
"The Standard of the world"


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## gunrunnerjohn

tjcruiser said:


> Technically (and historically), it was "Zero Gauge", rather than "Ohh Gauge" ...


Gee, talk about a *buzz kill*!  I liked my description better.


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## allienfuel

That some good info to have. I am newbe here and have a K-line 0/027 track. it is small oval track with a engine plus two cars I plan to expand for the grand kids or at least thats my excuse. Anyway I'm thinking of starting with one 4x8 table hanging from a pulley system in my man cave, well maybe two. 8x8 sounds better, but I'm tryin to verify that k-line and lionel track will work together. Really glad I read this forum before i started to buy cars


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## gunrunnerjohn

Welcome to the forum, can you tell us what your forum handle means?


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## allienfuel

I guess we are all adults here. I am 44yrs old Married, I spent most of my life doing Meth (drugs). I have always been a believer of aliens, and used tell ppl as a joke the mother ship lost my address and i was stuck here. And Meth was my fuel = allienfuel. well the wife and i grew up and cleaned up. that was 10yrs ago. I kept the handle as a reminder of a past life. I now try hard to live a better life. I do a lot of volunteer work to those in need at the church and local food bank, as someone who has been there I can relate. Guess you can say i made peace with the Lord. Took me a while and a lot phone calls, but i made peace with my past demons. I wouldn't change anything about my past, as it would change the entire course of my life. And those experiences make who i am today. And I'm good with the guy in the mirror and believe I am right with the Lord. Judgement day I will find out


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## Don Trinko

Great! Sounds like you found the right path. ( in life and trains!)Don


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## gunrunnerjohn

What's that saying? All's well that ends well?


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## Big Ed

allienfuel said:


> That some good info to have. I am newbe here and have a K-line 0/027 track. it is small oval track with a engine plus two cars I plan to expand for the grand kids or at least thats my excuse. Anyway I'm thinking of starting with one 4x8 table hanging from a pulley system in my man cave, well maybe two. 8x8 sounds better, but I'm tryin to verify that k-line and lionel track will work together. Really glad I read this forum before i started to buy cars


It would be nice if someone actually answered your question, huh? 

What kind of track Lionel tube track and k line tube track yes it will work together but that would be O scale. The k line O tube track like the Lionel O tube track is a bit higher then O/27 tube track.

See the difference?








Now you are not talking about the k line snap track right?
Lionel has fast track too?
There are more tell.

Let us know what kind your talking about. :smokin:


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## Big Ed

big ed said:


> It would be nice if someone actually answered your question, huh?
> 
> What kind of track? Lionel tube track and k line tube track yes it will work together but that would be O scale. The k line O tube track like the Lionel O tube track is a bit higher then O/27 tube track.
> 
> See the difference?
> View attachment 28682
> 
> 
> Now you are not talking about the k line snap track right?
> Lionel has fast track too?
> There are more tell.
> 
> Let us know what kind your talking about. :smokin:



I guess not. :dunno:


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## allienfuel

So this is what I am starting with. I truly know nothing about it, but by next visit from the grandkids I plan to have a much larger layout


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## allienfuel

Wow sorry for the over sized pictures, but you can see what i got


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## eljefe

To answer your original question, yes the K-line track you have works just fine with Lionel tubular O27 track. I have both brands myself (plus Marx and maybe others), and they all work together no matter what decade they were made in. Just pay attention to condition if you buy used track. While most track can be returned to usable condition, sometimes it's so corroded or warped that it's not worth the effort. Yours looks practically brand new!

Also note that O and O27 are not the same thing. O27 curves form a circle 27 inches in diameter. O curves form a circle 31 inches in diameter. The two types cannot be easily mixed. Some locomotives and cars require larger diameters than O27 or they will derail. If you look at products on the Lionel or MTH websites, the minimum curve a piece can handle is specified in the description.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You should also note that the minimum curve specifications are truly minimum, and even then some of them don't actually function correctly on those curves. Specifically, I've seen the Lionel Three Truck Shay have issues on O31 and O36 track, even though it's supposed to operate on them. Also, I've noted that the Lionel 2-8-0 Consolidation won't run on O36 or O31, even though it's also specified for O31.

Keep in mind that O27 track and switches greatly limits the stuff you can run.


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## allienfuel

So the O and 027 track are the same just tighter turn radius. My 027 cars will work just fine on 0 gauge track right? Now if start to build a larger layout I could use both tracks together just as long as I stay with the 027 cars. Is there a point where I will need more power? I like the size of these 027 cars plus I already have these I would like stay with them, but if 027 limits what i can run maybe i should go with 031 or 036?


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## gunrunnerjohn

No, the O and O27 are NOT the same profile. Here's a comparison of O-scale track heights.


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## allienfuel

The cars I have will run on any 0 gauge track correct? I just need to pick one track before i start to expand.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the cars you have will determine what track they'll run on. My 19" passenger cars look pretty silly on O42 track, but they will run on it. If you have some of the 23" Lionel car carriers, you better have O72 curves.


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## California RailFan508

Thanks for the info regarding the size variances between each brand. I will take note of the slight to noticeable differences in size when it comes to each brand when looking into future investments on my upcoming layout project this fall.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Keep in mind that O27 sized cars will run on any size curves, the larger stuff requires progressively larger curves to run, and many times even larger curves to look decent running.


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## Magne-rail

servoguy said:


> The flanges on the prewar wheels are larger than the flanges on the post war wheels. The prewar crossings don't work well with postwar cars, and vice-versa. The crossing carry the same part number, so you have to test them. I haven't tried 022 switches.


My guess is the o22 switches should work fine with the pre-war wheel flange. :dunno:


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## gunrunnerjohn

022 switches should have no problems with pre-war stuff. They might have issues with some Marx stuff, as the drive gear on the inside of the wheels sometimes interferes with the switch.


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## servoguy

I just ran a postwar car and a 602 prewar car through an 022 switch, and it appears they both will work just fine. The flanges on the 602 are slightly larger than the flanges on the postwar car.


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## Big Ed

Allienfuel has not been back since July.

I guess he is totaly confused now. :smokin:


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## mdh157

excellent posting........I found it very confusing until i learned of the many variances in O Scale stuff.........again, excellent explanation.


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## rkenney

eljefe said:


> I don't know the reason N scale was named that.
> 
> Bottom line is there's little science or consistency behind these names.



'N' scale is a gauge actually it stands for Nine millimeter. Lay a round on the track (power off) and you'll see. 

'Course you could just measure but that's no fun.


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## trainguru

The "N" in N-scale, could also have meant "Nothing could be smaller than this!" And then Z scale came waltzing in.


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## Handyandy

These are all O-Gauge boxcars. Not sure if ANY are actually O-Scale!


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## Traincrazychapple

No one has mentioned OOO scale trains yet.
In 1969 and 70 I built my first OOO layout on a 4x8 board. This later became known as N scale. From O scale, we had OO scale, and then OOO scale. OO is about half of O, and OOO is about half of OO. When OOO came to be, it pretty much ended TT scale's chances of being big in the states. I still have a beautiful little TT scale train layout.
Over the years I have chanced upon some pretty interesting information on scales and gauges of trains. Wow, there is a bunch. It seems I saw included in the lists a mention of #3 gauge also, don't remember for certain. 
An extra thought here just fell out, darn thing bounced off my foot before it hit the floor. Seems like the floor has gotten farther away from my hands too!!! Awww, got it...has anyone tried using O gauge track to run G scale trains to represent approximately Go30?
Anyway this has been an interesting thread and thought I'd bump it up.
Dick


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## Luke 221

Evil Caesar said:


> Great reference page thank you. So I found a RMT flat car I would like to aquire. Any idea how it will hold up next to Lionel traditional?



RMT acquired several but not all of the old K-line molds and tooling. There are also some signs of Kusan in their line. I would say that RMT probably is comparable to K-line in size.


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## gunrunnerjohn

RMT has a somewhat eclectic assortment. Their ore cars turn out to be scale sized, but most of the other stuff is either fantasy or "traditional" sized.


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## Motorbones

I just recently purchased a Lionel Christmas train and the overall size between it and some of my Lionel trains makes it look a bit smaller...... go figure...


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## Motorbones

I was revisiting this thread today as I recently purchased an MTH Southern Pacific 4-8-4 Gs-4 Steam Engine on eBay (got a swinging deal for 130.00 and it works great after mostly being stored) and have been looking for a couple of Southern Pacific passenger cars for it. At the moment I'm pulling some 0-27 Harley Davidson cars with it, but wanted some lit cars. The Southern Pacific motif is pretty much color coordinated with the Harley stuff making for a good looking train. Needless to say, finding SP *** cars in 0-27 has been a challenge. Most are either HO, G-Scale or the larger O-Scale. Now I have a better idea on what to focus on....


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## tjcruiser

*Prewar O size variance*

I've just wrapped up the restoration of a little prewar Lionel Ives 1501 windup loco. With that, I'd thought I'd offer some size comparison pics of some prewar O tinplate locos.

Pictured left-to-right are:

Lionel 258 (custom paint)
Lionel 1681
Lionel Winner Lines 1015
Lionel Ives 1501

These are all O gauge, and they all have x-4-x wheel configurations.

TJ


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## SBRacing

I love O and O-27 simpley due the all the action accesory buildings/ industries. However I feel I would have a hard time making it all to scale like I did with my HO layout. Instead of making it realistic I may make it the Toy Train Layout.


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## Big Ed

SBRacing said:


> I love O and O-27 simpley due the all the action accesory buildings/ industries. However I feel I would have a hard time making it all to scale like I did with my HO layout. Instead of making it realistic I may make it the Toy Train Layout.


Like I alway say.........No matter what scale.......THEY ARE ALL TOYS.

The main thing you hear about 3 rail is the track is so unrealistic.
I guess some never saw a well built 3 rail layout, if you just can't get over the third rail then look at a well built O gauge 2 rail layout.

Or then step a size down to S, a little smaller and it has "realistic" two rail.

Most HO or even N modelers will tell you that the number 1 reason they model HO (or N) is because of the size requirements needed for an O layout.

But in the end THEY ARE ALL TOYS.

*I like them ALL no matter what size they are. :smokin:*


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## TomW2034

The traffic over in another thread got me interested in looking at the Lionel freight cars at The Western Depot. Now I better understand why used cars sell for so much on eBay.

Every car I looked at specified a minimum curve of O-31. For example:

http://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/cPath/21_503_34_338/products_id/39627

Why would that be for a box car? I can understand something like a Berkshire locomotive binding up, but other than possibly looking funny, why would the above car not work on my O-27 layout?

Thanks,
Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn

Sometimes the trucks don't have the clearance to swivel sufficiently for O27 curves, that would be the normal reason for that restriction.


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## TomW2034

*Learning... But Confused*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Sometimes the trucks don't have the clearance to swivel sufficiently for O27 curves, that would be the normal reason for that restriction.


Fair enough.

It would appear that lack of swivel was built in on purpose. Although I am still learning, my best information is that *my *Pullman cars were made by Lionel. The cars are longer than the *new*-stock-for-sale case I cited and run quite well on my O-27 track.









Although I am not averse to rebuilding for O-31 curves, it would be great to know if Lionel's description for new stock is a requirement or a *recommendation*.

Thanks,
Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn

I suspect the only way to really know is to try them. Some of the recommendations are chiseled in granite, other cars it's just a "suggestion". I tried to run the Hogwart's locomotive on O31 curves, it's rated for O36. Even making a couple of mods, I still couldn't get it around the O31 curves! I just took the scale PFE Vision Line Reefers and pushed them around the few O27 curves I have in a box, they went around without a problem.


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## TomW2034

*Expensive Foray*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> I suspect the only way to really know is to try them...


I agree.

I was hoping someone had already experimented.

Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn

Not me, maybe someone else here.


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## captaincog

Why not try some of the Railking cars? I have them in three different road names and they do work on O27.


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## bobyoung

*Scale O Gauge vis-a-vis 1/48 Scale*

Nearly all of my freight consists are Scale (1/48), but there is considerable difference between Atlas O, K-Line Scale, MTH Premier and Lionel Standard O. I don't think I have any Lionel Standard O left. Seems to me the MTH Premier and the Atlas O are more consistent. The K-Line Scale is a little smaller in most cases, but I surmise that K-Line was making Scale of the smaller real thing. The only freight car I have left that is semi-scale is the K-Line Texas Mexican Railway Boxcar. The only way I will part with it is to have it pried from my stiff dead fingers.


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## bobyoung

*Scale*

I also have an MTH Texas & Pacific Caboose that is Rail King, but is nearer 1/48 scale than most Rail King.


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## gunrunnerjohn

FYI, quite a few RK items are scale sized. Many of the smaller switch engines, stuff like the bobber cabooses, and their 70 ton ore hoppers are all scale sized.


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## bobyoung

All scale size by different manufacturers.






I have attempted to upload pictures, but don't know if successful.


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## eljefe

When I watch real trains, I've seen boxcars of varying sizes all connected together. It makes my feel better about having cars of differing dimensions in my consists.


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## Lee Willis

Definitely - boxcars, tan cars, gondolas and other types of the same type of car vary slightly in size in the real world. I think it is more realistic when they do on the layout. I actually like the fact there is a tiny variation between cars of different manufacturers (and sometimes even among the same, from different years' productions).

The photo below shows what I think does not work out, though, at least for me. Both are Lionel O-gauge products, a standard size (1:48 scale) Santa Fe "Map slogan" car on the left, and a traditional size one on the right. These I never run together.


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## Matt_GNo27

Note: Within the non-O-scale K-Line offerings there are those that use the old Marx O-27 molds & are so small that K-Line also sold them with American Flyer trucks as S-gauge cars & there are those that are comparable to Lionel's traditional O-gauge cars. 
Attached is a photo of two K-line boxcarsn the left, K-6454, an imitation of Lionel's classic 6464 boxcars, & on the right, K-5122—made from a Marx mold.


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## DMASSO

Great topic.

I just built this multiguage shelf at our club to help explain the differences to the our visitors. I still have a few things to add including signage.


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## ErnestHouse

Crap crap crap. Dad collected and handed down 15 rolling stock, 2 cabooses and 4 engines of postwar "Lionel Traditional" scale stuff. Thought I had a good head of steam going into this but it's actually an anchor. Looks like "Scale" is the place to be. Crap. :smilie_daumenneg:


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## Guest

Don't let the scale guys get you down, Ernest. I (and many others) only run traditional O gauge and have no intention of changing. You can build a very nice, good looking layout with traditional pre war and/or post war size trains. Scale trains are great if you have room for very large curves to run them and if you're willing to pay for scale. Scale or traditional doesn't matter as long as you're having fun.


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## ErnestHouse

But anything you buy like buildings, bridges, portals, cars and people are all the wrong size. You spend all that time and effort on a layout and it looks funny. So what's the point?


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## Guest

ErnestHouse said:


> But anything you buy like buildings, bridges, portals, cars and people are all the wrong size. You spend all that time and effort on a layout and it looks funny. So what's the point?


Most of our buildings are undersized, or selectively compressed, especially industrial buildings. 1/43 cars are oversized even for scale but look good anyway. Things like bridges, portals and many other things don't have an exact size in the real world, some are bigger and some smaller. These are some pictures from my recently dismantled layout. The trains are traditional/post war size. I think the scenes are convincing and look good. It might be a case of beauty in the eye of the beholder but I'm very happy with semi-scale trains. I think it's well worth the effort and I had a lot of fun with the layout and look forward to building and running the next one using the same trains. It's not necessary to spend a thousand dollars and more on a steam loco to have a fine layout.


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## 4G-Man

Lee Willis said:


> Definitely - boxcars, tan cars, gondolas and other types of the same type of car vary slightly in size in the real world. I think it is more realistic when they do on the layout. I actually like the fact there is a tiny variation between cars of different manufacturers (and sometimes even among the same, from different years' productions).
> 
> The photo below shows what I think does not work out, though, at least for me. Both are Lionel O-gauge products, a standard size (1:48 scale) Santa Fe "Map slogan" car on the left, and a traditional size one on the right. These I never run together.
> 
> View attachment 85154


Lee, I am not trying to argue, just trying to learn. If you like them being different then why don't you like those as your example being different?


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## 4G-Man

Ok, I am getting ready to build a set and would like to be somewhat accurate - my thoughts people and buildings are different sizes (a buildings footprint) in this world; however some thing have a basic standard such and floor heights 8' or 10' and then there is warehouses that may not have a standard height depending on what was going to happen in the building. But typically one wouldn't want it undersized if they wanted it to be similarly realistic. 

So on average - how tall is today's loco? Or maybe a better question is, if I was to place a house or building with what would be an 8' ceiling or a 10' ceiling or a 12' ceiling what would these measurements be in inches for an average O scale?


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## cole226

4G-Man said:


> So on average - how tall is today's loco? Or maybe a better question is, if I was to place a house or building with what would be an 8' ceiling or a 10' ceiling or a 12' ceiling what would these measurements be in inches for an average O scale?


remember, O scale is 1/48 which is 1/4"=1foot, 1"=4 feet, etc.

i believe most locos are generally around 15 ft tall.


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## highvoltage

4G-Man said:


> Ok, I am getting ready to build a set and would like to be somewhat accurate - my thoughts people and buildings are different sizes (a buildings footprint) in this world; however some thing have a basic standard such and floor heights 8' or 10' and then there is warehouses that may not have a standard height depending on what was going to happen in the building. But typically one wouldn't want it undersized if they wanted it to be similarly realistic.
> 
> So on average - how tall is today's loco? Or maybe a better question is, if I was to place a house or building with what would be an 8' ceiling or a 10' ceiling or a 12' ceiling what would these measurements be in inches for an average O scale?


So, using 1/4"=1 foot, an 8 ft ceiling would be 2 inches high, 10 ft - 2.5 inches, 12 ft - 3 inches.

A 15 foot tall loco would be 3.75 inches high.


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## 4G-Man

cole226 said:


> remember, O scale is 1/48 which is 1/4"=1foot, 1"=4 feet, etc.
> 
> i believe most locos are generally around 15 ft tall.





highvoltage said:


> So, using 1/4"=1 foot, an 8 ft ceiling would be 2 inches high, 10 ft - 2.5 inches, 12 ft - 3 inches.
> 
> A 15 foot tall loco would be 3.75 inches high.


Great, thanks. I was not for sure O was 1:48 scale, I was starting to feel that may have been the case but would not have bet on it - good info. 

The measurements put things in perspective, that ain't quite as scary as I first imagined. Now I can start thinking think out more clearly.


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## gunrunnerjohn

True O-scale is 1:48 if you live in the US, but 1:43 if you live in Europe. Add to that all the semi-scale stuff that is sized between 1:48 and around 1:55, and you can see why there is confusion about what scale O-scale really is. 

If you wonder why there are so many 1:43 vehicles, but very few 1:48 ones, you can blame the Europeans!


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## 4G-Man

dadblamed metric system probably


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## 4G-Man

Well thanks a lot Team, you guys have done it now! With this report of O scale between 1:43 - 1:55 you have me in a quandary. I currently run. 1:32 and/or HO in Slot cars, not a huge fan of HO because they just look like a colored dot zooming around the track, can't really tell they are actually cars. The 1:32 is most popular and very much car like; but now I can see where the 1:43 scale Slots will compliment my O scale trains more better. I am thinking I will have to start completely over in the Slot Car business. Woe is me.


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## Lee Willis

4G-Man said:


> Well thanks a lot Team, you guys have done it now! With this report of O scale between 1:43 - 1:55 you have me in a quandary. I currently run. 1:32 and/or HO in Slot cars, not a huge fan of HO because they just look like a colored dot zooming around the track, can't really tell they are actually cars. The 1:32 is most popular and very much car like; but now I can see where the 1:43 scale Slots will compliment my O scale trains more better. I am thinking I will have to start completely over in the Slot Car business. Woe is me.


I:43 slot cars are much closer and more realistic on an O-Gauge layout than 1:43, 1:87, or 1:64. I thought long and hard about going with them instead of 'Streets ten years ago when I wanted O-Gauge cars and trucks on my layout. You can't race "Streets cars well, but they run at much slower scale speeds and without hassle, so I'm happy. But racing slots cars is fun and I wish I had room for a 1:43 racetrack on my layout.


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## glacierrunner

*Caboose sizes*

Can someone post pictures of the different sizes of O scale cabooses? I am looking for a big one! Thanks, Don


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## VinceL

Over on the OGR forum there used to be a huge thread on intermodal equipment. The thread got deleted a few years ago, and it has never been built back up to its original wealth of information.

When it comes to various sizes in O gauge railroading, containers and intermodal equipment provide a wealth of confusion and inconsistency.

Is there a comprehensive listing of the various container dimensions from O gauge suppliers (Lionel, MTH, Atlas, K-Line, Weaver, ROW, others, and with this week's announcement, Menards)?
What brands of containers can be stacked on each other?
What brands of containers will fit in what brands of intermodal stack cars?


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## Shawn91481

So here are a series of Cabooses that I have.

Left to right:
MTH O scale, Lionel Semi-scale, and Lionel 027


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## Jim C

Great thread! Santa brought my first 027 in 1951. I could never get the later-added 2500 series passenger cars to run well and, at the time, couldn't figure out why Lionel made them so big. I found big radius 027 curves and switches just a few years ago that let them run.


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## Fabforrest

Decided I needed some more trucks on the layout. Went to Diecast direct and amazon and picked out a few that looked good. 1/43, two made by K-Line so I thought they would be OK. 4 of the 5, including the K-Line, were HUGE. Nearly a foot long. Said 1/43 of the box. Could not possibly be right. Right? 

The fifth one just arrived and is what I expected. Thankfully. 

Yikes. 

Can you explain that?


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## Big Ed

Sounds like you got a different scale?
Someone there s crewed up?


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## Fabforrest

Says 1/43 right on the boxes.


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## Guest

They may be 1/43 scale Forrest. Use a scale person to check the door size. If the door size looks right then it's the right scale. Trucks are pretty big.


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## gunrunnerjohn

It would be handy to actually see the truck and the K-Line product number Forrest.


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## Fabforrest

Doors are 1 1/4” tall. Seems too big. These are longer than my scale FEF (without tender).


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## Fabforrest

The K-Line pictured is K-8110TT. The other item is NewRay, but I am uncertain of the part number. I bought 2 K-line items and two NewRay, All from DieCast Direct. All listed as 1/43. The NewRay shows 1/43 on the box That is a 16 inch ruler in the picture. All four are around 16 inches long. They dwarf the other 143 items i have.

according to Wikipedia, 1/43 trucks are larger than other 1/43 vehicles. "There are many manufacturers in 1:43 scale producing everything from customized and accurate race cars to emergency vehicles, family sedans and SUVs. Trucks and tractor trailers can also be found in this scale, but they are comparatively larger...'

go figure.


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## gunrunnerjohn

A 40 foot trailer is a very common item on the roads, that equates for a 10" long 1:48 scale trailer. Add the size of the tractor and it's around a foot. 1:43 will be even larger. FWIW, there are trailers as long as 50' driving the roads.


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## Fabforrest

OK, i’ll Take your word for it, but these will be reserved for grandson play.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think Lee mentioned that he prefers the 1:50 trucks as they look plenty large for O-scale, and the 1:43 seem to be too large. Here you go, proving him right!


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## Big Ed

I went through my pictures here to try to find a picture for size reference. I know I have one somewhere of my truck and tanker sitting next to a RR tanker car but can't find it.
Look at this tankers size compared to the locomotive behind it.
Now in your mind turn it sideways next to the Locomotive.


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## Matt_GNo27

I thought I would contribute more photos to this thread. On the left is a Lionel 6464-style traditional O gauge boxcar made in 1996 and on the right is a Lionel PS-1 O Scale (1:48) boxcar made in 2005.


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## tjcruiser

Very nice boxcar size comparison / contrast!


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## jackpresley

*O scale track*

Is there a difference between Atlas O 2-rail and Atlas O 3-rail track other than the obvious missing center rail?

It's the same width right?

Anyone else make prototypical 2 rail O track?

I'm tinkering with a battery conversion that will be a wasted effort if there is no 2 rail O to run it on.

Thanks.

p.s. Nobody mentions price.  I always thought HO meant Half price O.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The big difference, beside the missing rail, is Atlas 2-Rail is lower profile rail. However, if your battery powered conversion has 3-rail pizza cutter wheels, it will NOT run well on 2-rail track, the flanges will hit every tie.


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## jackpresley

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The big difference, beside the missing rail, is Atlas 2-Rail is lower profile rail. However, if your battery powered conversion has 3-rail pizza cutter wheels, it will NOT run well on 2-rail track, the flanges will hit every tie.


Thank you.


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## Serenity DeBout

eljefe said:


> TJ's right about the O originally being a zero. As Ed states, HO was named for being roughly "Half of O scale" and G is for Garden scale since it often used outdoors. TT is for Table Top. Z scale was so-named because if was thought to be the smallest scale anyone could build a working model train, but then the even smaller T scale came along. I don't know the reason N scale was named that.
> 
> Bottom line is there's little science or consistency behind these names.


G is not for "Garden" Scale (although that is where many of the set-ups are). It stands for Grosse Bahn which means "Large Train" in Germany where it was first used.


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## ftauss

What happened to the initial photos? I'm getting just xs.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks like the links were toasted by the board update when they changed over.


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## ftauss

Dang. My room is ready and I have my table up. I pulled out all of my trains and realized I don't have many boxcars at all. I was going to use those pictures to determine what I can buy online. I have 1 or 2 scale ones and a few traditional (semi scale) and I have a couple of the original O27 ones. They definitely look weird side by side. I reckon Menards is a safe bet. I'm guessing they are not quite scale based on the military box cars and some PRR ones I got from them. I also imagine anything MPC era or later should be Ok. KLine, MTH, etc.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, MPC era had a lot of semi-scale cars, so I wouldn't be that quick to assume they'll all be scale.

Menard's boxcars are very close to scale, close enough that you are hard pressed to see the difference. They're pretty plain with few added on details, but they usually have good looking graphics, and the price is sure right.

You have to be careful determining what is scale and what is not, it all depends on the prototype that is being represented. Menards standard boxcars are models of 40' boxcars, and at 10" long for the body, they're spot on. They're slightly narrower than scale by about 1/8", but that's one dimension that's usually less noticeable. They're also slightly shorter than the true scale car, again not really all that significant.

Here's the Menard's 40' boxcar compared to the Lionel Vision Line PFE Reefer. Few will argue that the VL Reefer is not scale sized. A lot more added-on detail on the expensive spread, but remember three of the Lionel cars costs the same as about a dozen of the Menard's cars! 




























If you're just looking for some decent looking cars that can be represented as scale sized, you can consider the Menard's line.


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## ftauss

I'm not going to be a scale crazy. I'll take anything on the larger end, the older, smaller ones I have just look to small.

I've seen some older Lionel boxcars on ebay not horribly expensive. I'm hoping I can roll the dice and do ok.


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## Jetguy

Regarding scale, you may see some European scale reference and this refers to gauge of the track.
This topic https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/157829273400973747
*O Scale vs. 32mm? or 28mm*
G scale is 45mm spacing between rails https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_scale
*O scale is 32mm* spacing between rails https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_scale
S scale track is 22.48 or 22.5mm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_scale
*28mm often refers to "hero scale*" models and figures.


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## Lionel Trains 773

Boston&Maine said:


> Anyone who has looked into the world of O gauge has discovered that there are many sizes. Below are some photographs that I hope will help outline what will size-up with what.
> 
> 
> For reference, the MTH Premier Line is 1:48 scale, which is the definition of O scale. All products in the Atlas Big O, Atlas Master, Atlas Trainman, K-Line O Scale, Lionel Standard O, and Weaver lines are also 1:48 scale and match the size of the MTH Premier Line car shown below.
> It appears that the Atlas Industrial Rail, K-Line O-27, Lionel Traditional, and MTH Rugged Rails product lines are equal in size and would be classified as being O-27 gauge.
> As the pictures show, the MTH Railking Line falls between O scale and O-27 gauge. In fact, there are even three categories within this product line - Railking, Railking Imperial, and Railking Scale. More about this can be read here.
> Credit for the images below belongs to a gentleman named Sean from another forum. He did a great job showing the differences 👍
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTH Premier v. MTH Railking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTH Premier v. Lionel Traditional
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTH Railking v. Lionel Traditional
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTH Railking v. MTH Rugged Rails
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lionel Traditional v. Atlas Industrial Rail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lionel Traditional v. K-Line O-27
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lionel Traditional v. MTH Rugged Rails
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTH Premier v. Lionel Prewar ​


The pics are not coming they on my I-Phone - not sure why not?


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## Big Ed

Lionel Trains 773 said:


> The pics are not coming they on my I-Phone - not sure why not?


Can you load them on to your computer?
Just drop the image, use the little box by the smiley face, second to the left.
Boston & Maine has not been here for a long time.


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## T-Man

The pictures do not come up. The link must of been broken.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> The pictures do not come up. The link must of been broken.


I thought he was saying he couldn't insert pictures here.
OK


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## T-Man

He quoted the first post. Those pictures do not show up at all here or on a phone. the problem is in the post itself.
Posts 124 and 130 identified the problem.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> He quoted the first post. Those pictures do not show up at all here or on a phone. the problem is in the post itself.
> Posts 124 and 130 identified the problem.


The thread is only from 2010?  
We should update it?
Add what is missing and edit B&M's posts if needed. 
He wouldn't mind.


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## T-Man

His pictures were comparison of different brands that I do not own. I can't duplicate them.
If supplied I can.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> His pictures were comparison of different brands that I do not own. I can't duplicate them.
> If supplied I can.


I looked at the thread, a lot of links no longer work.
But still some good talk in it.
You need the trains to retake pictures, and he had back grounds added that looked nice.
It would be nice to add the pictures back in post #1 or replace them.
Instead ,Edit, in big letters, PICTURES GONE from this post. Sorry.


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## Millstonemike

This happens on my other forum. Members should upload pictures to the forum S/W as links come and go over time.


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## rrman987

What happened to pictures All I see is "Images not available"?


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## highvoltage

rrman987 said:


> What happened to pictures All I see is "Images not available"?


Because the original post was over 11 years ago. They're probably gone by now.


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## gunrunnerjohn

rrman987 said:


> What happened to pictures All I see is "Images not available"?


I think various board upgrades lost a lot of content along the way.


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## rrman987

Where are the images???


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## gunrunnerjohn

rrman987 said:


> Where are the images???


You apparently didn't read the previous post!


gunrunnerjohn said:


> I think various board upgrades lost a lot of content along the way.


Like I said, they're lost!


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## cale10

Been following this thread for a bit and have a few pictures to add since the originals seem to have gotten lost. Pictured is a Lionel O-27 Gondola (Blue), Lionel O scale Gondola (Red), and a newer Menards Gondola (Yellow). Its easy to see the vast size differences, especially with the newer Menards gondola. Its currently the only Menards train product I have and it may stay that way because I prefer the older Post War Lionel O-27 and O sizing.

Piggybacking off that, I cant seem to find much info in this thread comparing newer Lionel (including MPC), Williams, K-Line, or other brands to Lionel PW sizes. I have a good bit of MPC Lionel and from what I can tell, most rolling stock seems to have used the exact same molds as the older Post War trains. PW and MPC porthole cabooses seem to be identical, hoppers, gondolas, ECT... Initially I was under the impression that my PRR Flyer set from Circa 2006 had much larger rolling stock than Post War trains would have been, but after some comparing that doesn't seem to be the case. Just that the new Lionel lower end stuff is sized the same as the more premium Post War stuff. Thoughts?


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## T-Man

If the width does not change the scale is the same.
The gondolas are just different in length.
I just worked on a wood flatcar that was 60 scale feet.


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## cale10

I may be wrong, but I'd assume that when something is scaled up or down, all three axis's would be affected rather than just one (length) in this case. The Menards Gondola is definitely longer, wider, and taller than a PW Lionel gondola so I'd imagine the "scale" is larger even though it still may not be true O scale.


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## Lehigh74

Many O gauge items are not O scale. In general, you can only count on something being 1:48 scale if it’s advertised as such. If it’s a Lionscale, Railking Scale, MTH Premier or if the packaging says 1:48, then you can expect a true scale model, but even then, some liberties may be taken. For example, MTH Premier passenger cars are 18” long (a scale 70’) when most passenger cars where 85’.

Most Lionel PW and MPC items are not to scale. When items are not made to scale, I don’t think there is normally much attention paid to scaling all three dimensions up or down equally. Best example I can think of is the PW 44 tonner. Lionel just stretched it lengthwise to fit an existing chassis.

Is you Menards gondola made to scale? You can check the length at least since the 52’5” Inside Length is inscribed on the side. Should be around 13” if the length is 1:48 scale.


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## michael.biven

The original images were cached by the Wayback Machine. Sometimes you need to search for the specific file rather than the page itself.

MTH Premier v. MTH Railking

MTH Premier v. Lionel Traditional

MTH Railking v. Lionel Traditional

MTH Railking v. MTH Rugged Rails

Lionel Traditional v. Atlas Industrial Rail

Lionel Traditional v. K-Line O-27

Lionel Traditional v. MTH Rugged Rails

MTH Premier v. Lionel Prewar


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## Eilif

cale10 said:


> Been following this thread for a bit and have a few pictures to add since the originals seem to have gotten lost. Pictured is a Lionel O-27 Gondola (Blue), Lionel O scale Gondola (Red), and a newer Menards Gondola (Yellow). Its easy to see the vast size differences, especially with the newer Menards gondola. Its currently the only Menards train product I have and it may stay that way because I prefer the older Post War Lionel O-27 and O sizing.
> 
> Piggybacking off that, I cant seem to find much info in this thread comparing newer Lionel (including MPC), Williams, K-Line, or other brands to Lionel PW sizes. I have a good bit of MPC Lionel and from what I can tell, most rolling stock seems to have used the exact same molds as the older Post War trains. PW and MPC porthole cabooses seem to be identical, hoppers, gondolas, ECT... Initially I was under the impression that my PRR Flyer set from Circa 2006 had much larger rolling stock than Post War trains would have been, but after some comparing that doesn't seem to be the case. Just that the new Lionel lower end stuff is sized the same as the more premium Post War stuff. Thoughts?
> View attachment 594506
> 
> View attachment 594504
> 
> View attachment 594505


Thanks so much for posting this. For folks like me that are relatively inexperienced these sorts of pictures of are extremely useful. As someone who has gamed and blogged about wargaming miniatures for a long time, I'm surprised to not see more of this sort of content. I periodically do comparison shots of wargaming miniatures and they include not only height comparison pictures to known-brands, but also actual measurements (mm to-the-eye in the case of figures). I'd love it if more reviewers would post comparison pictrures and H/W/D measurements.

As for the cars themeslves, I feel similarly about preferring Lionel Traditional stuff and it's limiting my potential Menards rolling stock purchases mostly to Modern tank cars, 11' flatcars and possibly ore cars.


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## Eilif

michael.biven said:


> The original images were cached by the Wayback Machine. Sometimes you need to search for the specific file rather than the page itself.


Thanks for finding those! A great resource. Going to borrow your list and upload pictures for those who don't want to click through for each.

MTH Premier v. MTH Railking









MTH Premier v. Lionel Traditional









MTH Railking v. Lionel Traditional









MTH Railking v. MTH Rugged Rails









Lionel Traditional v. Atlas Industrial Rail









Lionel Traditional v. K-Line O-27









Lionel Traditional v. MTH Rugged Rails









MTH Premier v. Lionel Prewar


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## Big Ed

The thread was good way back when B&M started it.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> His pictures were comparison of different brands that I do not own. I can't duplicate them.
> If supplied I can.


Post #148 has the pictures that you could add to B&M's first post.









Confused about size variances in O gauge? Then look here!


What happened to pictures All I see is "Images not available"? I think various board upgrades lost a lot of content along the way.




www.modeltrainforum.com







The original images were cached by the Wayback Machine. Sometimes you need to search for the specific file rather than the page itself.

MTH Premier v. MTH Railking

MTH Premier v. Lionel Traditional

MTH Railking v. Lionel Traditional

MTH Railking v. MTH Rugged Rails

Lionel Traditional v. Atlas Industrial Rail

Lionel Traditional v. K-Line O-27

Lionel Traditional v. MTH Rugged Rails

MTH Premier v. Lionel Prewar


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## Big Ed

michael.biven said:


> The original images were cached by the Wayback Machine. Sometimes you need to search for the specific file rather than the page itself.
> 
> MTH Premier v. MTH Railking
> 
> MTH Premier v. Lionel Traditional
> 
> MTH Railking v. Lionel Traditional
> 
> MTH Railking v. MTH Rugged Rails
> 
> Lionel Traditional v. Atlas Industrial Rail
> 
> Lionel Traditional v. K-Line O-27
> 
> Lionel Traditional v. MTH Rugged Rails
> 
> MTH Premier v. Lionel Prewar


Thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn

I fixed the first post and inserted the images in-line.


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## Madockawando

How close to scale are the new Menards flat cars and intermodal cars? Thank you


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## Lehigh74

Flat cars come in various sizes in models and in real life. I only have 14” Menards flats since I the other sizes aren’t good runners in my opinion. My 14” Menards flats don’t have lettering for length, but they are about the same length and width as MTH Premier flat cars so I would say they are close to scale.


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