# Flat car fun



## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Disclaimer....any/all Lionel purists should leave now, you will not be happy with what you are about to see.

First one is my blue flat car I bought a week or two ago for $10. It was complete and I put a set of sprung trucks on it to roll better. Sometime and someway the car got split in two. My wife isn't sure if my son fell on it or the item he was playing with fell on it but in any event what was once one piece became two. So I purchased some steel bar stock and everyone's favorite - 5 minute epoxy.

This is after reinforcing a secondary crack in the one end. Yes those are bread ties, work fine and car is slated to be repainted in B&O.










Here it is with reinforcing stock ready to be epoxied in.










And here it is with the center beam epoxied in as well.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Up next was one of my searchlight cars. Out came the hole saw and I lobbed out the mounting boss for it.










Next, I put a layer of wax paper down and then got out the 5 minute epoxy to fill the hole.











Up next for this car is to have the center hole filled. I'll use a saw blade to cut lines into the epoxy to mimic the wood planking. Once that's done, a paint job is in order.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Have not seen anything to get anybody upset with you yet. But then I'm the guy that chops up locomotives for fun!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Fun, it looks like a mess! It will be fun when it's running. Congrats on fixing it up!


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Looks like it's going to work out well. I like the reinforcing idea, although steel works and adds weight, I might have chosen styrene. That would be easier to work with and easier to sculpt if desired. I think on the second one I might consider making a plate from sheetmetal to help support the area. I know JB weld is strong enough, depending on how thick you lay it underneath the chassis. I'd consider filling the hole and a thin layer beyond, adding a thin plate to accept the wear of the truck pivoting.

Carl


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Bread ties! 

I can't bear it...




nice work till this point. Looking forward to how that ginormous hole works out.

I've a box of stuff you might be interested in. It suits your particular...style.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Kwik - I thought about plastic for the blue car but you need to keep something in mind...my almost 2 yr old son plays with this now and his little brother, due in June, will more than likely be playing with it as well. I fully realize the center section is now the strongest part of that car and if it takes another hit, that'll more than likely spell the end for that car. But I only have about $20 into it and that includes the $10 purchase price  As for the searchlight car...yeah I thought about reinforcing it but I have a constraint that may not allow me to do so. Take a look at the car again. The opposite end has the mounting plate installed that the trucks mount to. There's not much clearance under that plate to install any kind of backing. What I might end up doing is installing the backing plate and epoxy the hole thing in. Once I've done that, the mounting plate becomes the reinforcement for that hole. I'd have to drill through the deck at that point to mount the truck. Still kicking that idea around.

New Guy - there's already epoxy in that hole. It's just that clear as I bought new stuff. I've always done this sort of thing in HO - it's how I have an Athearn DD35-B unit. It took 4 shells to do that...2 of their DD40A shells (Athearn at that point mislabeled them) and 2 GP35 shells. 


Once I get that hole completely filled, there's a small spot missing under the steps, I'm turning it over to see what I have. I'm hoping I don't have to use any body filler but if I do, I'll dig out the 2 part Bondo and smooth it out. Still kicking around the idea of a wooden deck for the grey car. Not sure how it'd hold up to a couple toddlers...

Then again, I do have another searchlight car in the wings that needs the same treatment!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Sounds like a mountain of epoxy fun.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Ohh you have no idea T-man. My dad's pushing for the 2nd searchlight car to be stretched an inch or two to lengthen it. I'm kicking around that idea too! Just got to make sure it'll navigate the curves I have - 2 bedroom apt with very limited space so I have to run 31 or 36 curves.

I'm no stranger to epoxy...built a stretched Athearn DD35 frame to fit a Bachmann (pre-Spectrum) DD40AX. I believe we stretched the frame about 2" to make it fit right.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

briangcc said:


> Ohh you have no idea T-man. I'm no stranger to epoxy...


You do know that you're talking to the Epoxy King. 
T-man = Epoxy Man.

Bunch of epoxy used in this thread, one that I can think of.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3596&highlight=epoxy+tanker

In there is epoxy-man's real tanker he got to bring in loads of epoxy to his workshop.  

If T-man can't fix it, IT CAN'T BE FIXED! :smokin:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Kwikster said:


> Looks like it's going to work out well. I like the reinforcing idea, although steel works and adds weight, I might have chosen *styrene*.


Good use for those throw-away credit-card style hotel keys. I've cut 'em in strips for all sorts of reinforcement fixes, along with some JBWeld.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

briangcc said:


> Ohh you have no idea T-man. My dad's pushing for the 2nd searchlight car to be stretched an inch or two to lengthen it. I'm kicking around that idea too! Just got to make sure it'll navigate the curves I have - 2 bedroom apt with very limited space so I have to run 31 or 36 curves.
> 
> I'm no stranger to epoxy...built a stretched Athearn DD35 frame to fit a Bachmann (pre-Spectrum) DD40AX. I believe we stretched the frame about 2" to make it fit right.


I would just take two search light cars and splice them. Just pick a length. 

Nice to see you TJ.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Now where's the fun with that one T-man? Then I end up with an incredibly short depressed center flat car and one long one. 

Nah, a stretching we will go  Probably use more of the metal stock I have and epoxy it in the center channel for strength. May screw through/into the deck to give it a little extra support. Then cast the deck and side with epoxy. Not that I need the weight as these are cast metal, but I may toss a couple pieces of that square bar stock in there as well for extra support. 

I'll be at it again this weekend as the cars are elsewhere drying - keeps them out of toddler hands while I'm still working on them!


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Here's rounds 2 -4 with epoxy:










Round 2 was my dad filling the center section. When I checked it a few days after he filled the center section, parts were not cured. I think the epoxy wasn't mixed properly so I cut the uncured section out. 

Round 3 was taking the advice here and epoxying the truck mounting plate in to give my plug a little more strength. I also filled in the gap I left the first time I filled the hole.

Round 4 was fixing what I thought was fully cured epoxy in the center section. When I started handling it, I found one more spot where the epoxy apparently wasn't fully mixed as it was still liquid under a skin. That was cut out and refilled. I also filled the section on the plug that had sagged - this was on the gap I had filled earlier.

I'm to the point now where once I sand it down again, I'll fill any imperfections with 2 part Bondo and call it done. Since the mounting plate for the trucks is now epoxied in, I'll have to go through the floor to mount the trucks. Going to have to figure a way to disguise that a bit...I'm thinking wooden crates with magnets. This way they're removable by my kids, as one right now gets frustrated when he can't remove things, and hide the screw head.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Nice to see you TJ.


Thanks very much, T-Man ... it's good to be back in the saddle at the moment!

And it's always wonderful to see how much you contribute to the forum!

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Braingcc, it's fun to figure out what works and how long it needs to dry. It all works out in the end. I like the wooden crate with magnets. Good idea. My daughter loves the same stuff.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Yeah I see I need to break out my good camera as my cell just isn't focusing properly. Ohh well, that's for this coming weekend!

I think I'll put screws through both ends otherwise I'd have a smooth deck on one end and a screw head sticking out the other. It'd just look weird to me.

And I will eventually stretch the other searchlight car I have. Just want to wrap this one up first so it can be primed.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That looks like the searchlight car, are you going to put the searchlight back on it?


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

John,

No. It looks at home behind a Williams FA - perfect size. 

However, the Weaver Sharknoses I just got dwarf this poor little flat car. I'm thinking the Williams stuff is closer to O/27 and the Weaver stuff is closer to O so the 2nd searchlight car I have is going to be stretched an inch I think, maybe an inch and a half. Gotta see how it works out and how the O31 curves are handled. I have Lionel/MTH trucks with the coupler sprung as opposed to being rigid so I might be able to squeak these by.

Once I get these both done, I may be looking for a couple regular flats to stretch a bit as stretching them is certainly cheaper than buying new!


**I will say I looked into returning both to working searchlight cars, just wasn't cost efficient to do so. I'd end up spending more on the parts then what they would be worth when I finished so I figured these were fair game at that stage.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

For the truck holder oner thingamies, use Flat Head screws, countersink them into the top, slightly below the top surface, then epoxy them in, right over top of the screw heads.

Use a nut and washer on the bottom.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

There's really not much to countersink them into. The epoxy plug is maybe 1/32" to 1/16" thick. 

I saw MTH has wooden crates available in O scale at a decent price so I may pick those up at some point to tinker with. Otherwise I'm sure I could come up with something cheap using some scrap lumber I have laying around to make a convincing looking crate. That's a ways off yet as I still have more work to do on this particular car...and that's only getting it to the point where its ready to prime!


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Well the munchkin is crashing from his sugar rush so time to do a little more sanding and put a shot of primer on it to see where I am. And here's what it looks like currently:










Got some of the squares and dots on the depressed center to clear out of debris and the upper deck doesn't have any of the boards cut in just yet. Both areas will need a little 2 part bondo but its getting really close to the point where final color can be applied!

As said munchkin is sleeping, the second car will have to wait until another time.


For reference, here's how it started out (it's the top most one in this shot):


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

A couple rounds of 2 part bondo and a razor saw later and we have this...










Close enough for government work. Next up is to drill the holes for the screws which will hold the trucks on.

**The discoloration I think is due to only one coat of primer on top of the bondo. It's smooth to the touch so any imperfections at this point will be hidden with final paint and clear.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

briangcc said:


> Next up is to drill the holes for the screws which will hold the trucks on.


That turned out quite nice. Good work.

Why are you not epoxying posts to mount the trucks? Over drilling holes I mean.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

One would never know there was a big hole on the end! Nice job recutting the plank strips.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Gotta agree with tj, how did you make the plank lines, file, xacto knife. You can't tell it was a search light car. Nice!


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Turned out very nice, one painted will be difficult yo tell. :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:

Carl


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

briangcc said:


> A couple rounds of 2 part bondo and a razor saw later and we have this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, where are the rivets? 

Just kidding, Brian. 
That's beautiful body work you did. Your flat car is *way* more useful now. :thumbsup:


Greg


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

New Guy - IF this were a model that would be used solely by adults, then yes, epoxying a set of studs in would work. This model is going to be used by a couple toddlers so its got to be bullet proof. So I'll put a screw through the deck and hide the head with various removable crates/barrels/cable reels/etc. That way if I ever need to replace the screws due to damage, I can without having to recreate the deck.

SJM - I used what was left of the metal deck as a guide, put a straight edge on it as a guide, and drew a razor saw through everything to make the lines. Worked out pretty good. A few spots had some of the bondo pop up or perhaps some epoxy. But I couldn't pry it with my fingernail and I figure its good enough.

Tooter - Umm....They went to rivet heaven?? 

In all seriousness I think I figured out Lionel's manufacturing process on these cars. From the looks of things, the deck with the searchlight fixture was replaceable in their mold. Look at the decking between both ends. The one solid end that I didn't touch has no where near the reliefs for the decking. The opposite end, the boards have less of a relief. And its not due to paint build up.

Next one will wait a bit but will be stretched 1-1.5". I was looking at wood decking for that one and may very well do it so it's different. I'm sure if I epoxy the wood to a bare deck I'd be fine so I think I'll be breaking out some aircraft stripper to take the car down to bare metal before I work on it.


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## Luke 221 (Feb 12, 2013)

I have made many kitbashed freight cars. I think that some of my favorite cars are the ones that I have hacked together. One that I did recently, was to use the boxcar body from a MPC era Lionel short boxcar and use a postwar 60's metal frame. Look at the attached photo. It is a junk MPC lionel tank car on an american flyer metal boxcar chassis.


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## Luke 221 (Feb 12, 2013)

Here are several more of my customized freight cars.

MTH woodside reefer with customized paint and Decals. 











Lionel MPC tank car mated with an American Flyer Boxcar chassis










Marx Boxcar mated with American Flyer trucks









:smilie_daumenpos:


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Haven't had much time to work on the cars as we had my son's 2nd birthday party this past weekend. His gift from us was a Day Out with Thomas on Saturday and the party was Sunday.

I plan on picking this up again this coming weekend...well if my wife will allow me that is. 

And I'm a glutton for punishment as I picked up another 6520 car off ebay for $4.99 shipped. It's just the frame but it will suit my needs. It'll get stretched too so I have a matched set 

Luke - nice work but did you need to hijack my thread??


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

briangcc said:


> Haven't had much time to work on the cars as we had my son's 2nd birthday party this past weekend. His gift from us was a Day Out with Thomas on Saturday and the party was Sunday.
> 
> I plan on picking this up again this coming weekend...well if my wife will allow me that is.
> 
> ...


Nice work on the custom flat car. :smilie_daumenpos:

I think Luke just wanted to show you some of his work? :dunno:

But what he did compared to what you did is no comparison, huh?
Two totally different rebuilds.
Though all very nice. :smokin:

Now for the important question what color?
Alien fluorescent glow in the dark green? 

I am going to do that one day, a whole custom alien glow in the dark train. :smilie_daumenpos: I should say one of these years.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed alien green on the flying Yankee!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Ed alien green on the flying Yankee!


Where you been?
You almost made the where are they list. 

I could not do it to that, if I do it will be to one of my plastic scout locomotives, and all the cars will be painted from the cheaper lionels I own.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed, im still here.
Brian, cant wait for the updates. I somehow missed the Thomas party update. I was wondering where you went! Kidding , I know sometimes these things get drawn out way longer then what we think. Hope the party went well.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Update huh? Well....

Day out with Thomas was fun for my 2 yr old son Tyler...as long as there was something to look at on the train that was interesting, empty corn fields didn't cut it. He loved the layout inside the Medina Railroad Museum to the point where as we were leaving he walked us back in. 

The following day was his Birthday party. Then on 5/21 we got an early present...Grant Harrison Carter:










So we've been a touch busy and the flat cars had to wait a bit.


But I managed to get some work done with both kiddos zonk'd out this past Sunday.

Got the trucks mounted on this car:





























Pretty much going to sit like this until I have a few more done as I want to do the painting/decal work all at once. Once it is painted, I plan on using some blue LockTite on the nut to keep the screw from backing out during normal use. Crates/Barrels/whatnot will hide the screw heads as I plan on putting magnets inside those things to keep them on the car during normal use but allow for easy access should a repair be needed.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Up next was car #2:

This was purchased as a frame only and I did this one a little differently, and I'm paying for it now.




















What I did differently this time around was that I had no support under the end I was using the hole saw on 

Oops. So the end bent as I put heat and pressure on it. So I have it clamped upside down and I'm trying the method I've seen here of having gravity do some dirty work for me and get it back into shape. Well, I'm helping gravity a bit and I put a small hammer on the end in the air to help move things along a bit. Once it settles down I plan on filling the hole with epoxy, reinforce with metal, and then stretch it about 2" as these cars are about that much shorter than a standard Lionel flat car.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Best excuse ever! Congrats. Sometimes it takes time you dont have to finish a project. The frame should straighten out with some time. Enjoy the little ones.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Haven't forgotten this, just changed jobs and Photobucket is now blocked at work (along with any other media sharing site).

Car has settled down about half way as of today. Needs to still settle down further before I begin stretching it.


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