# 0-4-0's & 0-6-0's... where are they?



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*What happened to the demand?*
They've disappeared from the scene._

Way back in the day, these little critters ruled the advertising space in most issues of MR.
Realistic photos were replete with them.
Varney, Tyco, Mantua, and Model Power sold them like hotcakes.
Today if you Google "0-4-0" or "0-6-0", you'll get Bachman or vintage stuff, and some by Model Power... that's it.
No Walthers, no Athearn, no InterMountain, Bowser, BLI, or MTH.

They used to be an almost sacred genre of the hobby... everybody had them. A veritable mainstay.

My first steamers as a kid were Varney's Lil' Joe, and a Mantua 0-6-0. I loved them and still have them. They ran around the layout without regard to minimum radius, and they were halfway decent pullers.

Unlike the current 10-wheel dilemma, there no-longer seems to be a demand for 4 & 6 wheelers.
And I'm wondering why.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Mantua "Little Six", one of my best runners...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, there must be a reason…..manufacturers don’t like making anything that doesn’t sell nowadays, so maybe they have insight that we don’t….


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

shaygetz said:


> Mantua "Little Six", one of my best runners...


Very nice. 
Like I mentioned...
They were halfway decent pullers.


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## steamloco (Jul 18, 2017)

Please, i don't want this comment divert this tread, but i think that applies to all "smallish" engines from 0-4-0 to 2-6-2's; they are all MIA. If it doesn't have a pony truck of at least 4 wheels, 8 or more drivers and a trailing truck of 4 or more wheels, they won't make 'em.....I guess it must be we won't buy them.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

BLI and Walthers currently offer 4 & 6-wheeled locomotives with the _Plymouth diesel._
Walthers didn't come out with it in their Trainline series, they chose to present it in the more expensive Mainline genre.
I gather they're both doing quite well in sales.

So any argument that 4 & 6-wheel locomotives have fallen from favor IMO is b.s.
So why no steamers?


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Most likely the cost to make an 060 or 040 is similar to big locomotives and the manf. obviously think no one will buy such an animal. There might be some truth to that. The reason I bought Varney's little B&O 040 was that as a tenager it was the only steam engine I could afford.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

If a major manufacturer announced today that they were taking orders for a 4 or 6-wheeled steamer, I can confidently guarantee they'd sell out by July.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So why won’t they? Maybe they know something that we don’t…

BTW, Proto 2000 Heritage made a very nice 0-6-0 a number of years ago….they go for big money today…..


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

It's a conspiracy...there's a shadow gubmint pullin' the strings behind the curtain...

...or maybe UFOs?

In the end, it's a reminder of how far removed I am from the current marketplace. I'm so firmly planted in pre 1980 model railroading, I really don't notice such things. I have several newer Athearns that were handed down to me. My Bachmann 80 ton Shay is the newest I ever bought myself. My club years helped me to hate sound equipped locos...nothing like some jack wagon leaving his bell ringing in the yard while he stepped out to get some coffee and a smoke to endear me to them. I guess I'm so far removed from the hobby now that, when it does, I'll be the last to know.🤪😉😁👍


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

The _Big Boy_ is on LHS shelves from Athearn, AHM, BLI, Trix, and MTH. The _Challenger_ is there also, by about the same manufacturers.
Huge locomotives, likely running on huge layouts, drawing huge crowds... and huge dollars.

But 4 & 6-wheeled steam switchers that'll handle 15-inch curves?
Nada.
Zilch.
Zero.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

They're in Deutschland:

The 0-8-0 was much more popular in most of Europe and particularly Germany. They came as tank locomotives and with tenders.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Alas, I’m afraid the OP is referring to North American locomotives, so German ones are not the answer here….thanks though….


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

LateStarter said:


> The _Big Boy_ is on LHS shelves from Athearn, AHM, BLI, Trix, and MTH. The _Challenger_ is there also, by about the same manufacturers.
> Huge locomotives, likely running on huge layouts, drawing huge crowds... and huge dollars.
> 
> But 4 & 6-wheeled steam switchers that'll handle 15-inch curves?
> ...


Maybe size does matter…..


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

To be candid, explicit, direct, and straightforward, I'll offer a pair of possibly controversial explanations...

We (as a hobby) are infatuated, enamored, and mesmerized by _majesty_.
The "majestic" awesomeness of a _Big Boy_ or _Challenger_ (or Hudson or Mountain) is too much to resist... no matter what the cost.

But puny 4 & 6-wheelers are insignificant -- unworthy of attention and money.

The only other possible explanation (or excuse) I can think of is _sound_.
Sound has taken over the hobby.
It's probably more of a challenge to incorporate sound into a tiny 4 or 6-wheeler (even with a slope-backed tender). And manufacturers are probably not willing to offer a locomotive without good sound.


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## DonW (Mar 25, 2012)

Just picked up a HO 0-6-0 Spectrum that was overall a real mess, I suspect someone was trying to stuff decoder and sound into it and there just isn't the room. I ordered a n scale decoder and even that will show for the most part. They made quite a mess before giving up, wheels out of phase, miss wired, poorly soldered causing some shorts, and rods were bent. Hopefully it pulls logging cars well or it's gone and back to searching for a Mantua 0-6-0.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

MichaelE said:


>


This...I'll take one...45mm gauge, live steam...

Thanks...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

LateStarter said:


> To be candid, explicit, direct, and straightforward, I'll offer a pair of possibly controversial explanations...
> 
> We (as a hobby) are infatuated, enamored, and mesmerized by _majesty_.
> The "majestic" awesomeness of a _Big Boy_ or _Challenger_ (or Hudson or Mountain) is too much to resist... no matter what the cost.
> ...


I think you’ve hit on it, with both of those scenarios likely contributing to the scarcity, but the sound issue is probably the most chsllenging for the manufacturers…..


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Old_Hobo said:


> I think you’ve hit on it, with both of those scenarios likely contributing to the scarcity, but the sound issue is probably the most chsllenging for the manufacturers…..


Space is certainly a limiting factor... which I suspect is the case for N scale models.
However, Atlas has put full-array ESU LokSound in an N scale S2. They should surely be able to fit it (one way or another) in an HO 0-4-0.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

I've been looking for another Bachmann 0-6-0 Porter to put this shell on.









HO scale C&O C-8 fireless locomotive shell for Bachmann Porter 0-6-0 | eBay


This is a resin printed shell of the C&O's C-8 fireless cookers #35, 36 & 37.



www.ebay.com





Three years ago Bachman 0-6-0 Porters, new with DCC installed, could be picked up for cheap... anywhere. Scarce as hens teeth now.


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## BobT (Mar 27, 2021)

Well....y'all got me fired up about starting another project....

This was in my Dad's stuff I ended up with. Along with all the detail stuff.


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## steamloco (Jul 18, 2017)

Oh wow!....i remember those kits! They were fun and you felt great once it made a trip or two on the layout....and some of mine even had open frame motors.....


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

My corporate officers ride in style behind an 0-4-0 in my private car, built for me by a member of another forum. He also extensively reworked the drive on the Mantua Shifter. I applied the optional valve gear, a $3 accessory back in the day...


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

N scale 4-4-0's. 2-6-0's, and 4-6-0's by both Bachmann and Model Power are available WITH SOUND.
There's virtually no argument against the feasibility of stuffing it into HO scale 4 and 6-wheelers.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

i have quite a few of the smaller ones, but don't have them out as not enough room for a decoder..most are brass, some painted


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

wvgca said:


> i have quite a few of the smaller ones, but don't have them out as not enough room for a decoder..most are brass, some painted


I defer to post #24.


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## artfull dodger (Nov 19, 2016)

It was discussed in another group by someone that is "in the know" with the manufacturing side of model trains, that to produce a 0-6-0 costs nearly the same as a 4-8-4 or other larger steam loco that sells for more $$. The tooling costs are a fixed cost and he reported the cost to make tooling to do smaller models was nearly the same costs as a larger locomotive when the final costs were evaluated. The list nice small engines came from Bachmann and Proto 2K with the 0-6-0's. A nice older model from the brass world is the NWSL USRA 0-6-0 that has the Sagami can motor in it. A nice running model with better durability than the plastic ones. Older Tenshodo brass 0-8-0's are also built like a tank and once remotored with a can, will hold their own agaisnt a newer model. Its sad as so many small engines are out there to be modeled and smaller engines suit smaller layouts much better. With the high cost of everything thats new, one would think the desire to build smaller layouts would be higher, thus driving up the demand for smaller engines or traction/light rail modeling. Mike


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## artfull dodger (Nov 19, 2016)

One can also find the can motor with its angled mount on ebay and get the older Mantua/Tyco 0-6-0, 0-4-0 and 2-6-2 to run much better. At one time, Helix Humper/Allentown Locomotive Works had a repower kit for these, but they are out of business. Mellor and Central Valley also had full valve gear kits for the 0-4-0 which really makes that engine look much better. Being these are all diecast, they are a bit crude, but Cal Scale and PSC are your friend for detail parts and you can make one of these rival brass for detail work with some money, time and patience.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

wvgca said:


> View attachment 561271


Mark my words...one day, ONE DAY...I TOO will have this loco....😁👍

Very nice find...

I've stolen your picture so that I can at least be that close to one...😉


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

shaygetz said:


> Mark my words...one day, ONE DAY...I TOO will have this loco....😁👍
> 
> Very nice find...
> 
> I've stolen your picture so that I can at least be that close to one...😉


My reaction as well. Love the boxcab too, but I already have one.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

This just in….Athearn announces 2-6-0’s…..


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Spoken with an old folk's rasp....

"I remember when Athearn's nickname was "The EMD of Model Railroading".

...but then I also remember when Athearn was spelled "A-F-F-O-R-D-A-B-L-E".


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yeah…..40 years ago….things, all things, are more expensive now…..

I tried living in the past too….it don’t work….


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## steamloco (Jul 18, 2017)

Looks like it might be the 2-8-0 sister. So probably based on the ol' MDC kits from long ago?? A nice small engine that could pull. Was anyone able to get the 2-8-0? They were sold out before i knew it


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Search Results: 2-6-0: Athearn Trains







www.athearn.com


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Post #35 above is proof positive, that sound is do'able in a very small locomotive.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Old_Hobo said:


> Yeah…..40 years ago….things, all things, are more expensive now…..
> 
> I tried living in the past too….it don’t work….


One of the percs of any hobby is that one CAN live in the past as part of the joy in the hobby. When I pay the old retail price from 1968 for a piece, I hit hobby Nirvana....


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

This little guy has ESU LokSound and KeepAlive in it.
Don't tell me there's not enough room for sound in an 0-4-0!


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Being new to the hobby again, I noticed a lack of steam engines in general compared to diesels, with the exception of the big late period engines like the Big Boy, Challenger and FEF. In fact, I thought for sure someone would be making an Illinois Central Raiload ten-wheeler #382 (the one that Casey Jones died in), but no one is currently making one that I found. That would be a cool one to have.


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## steamloco (Jul 18, 2017)

......Hummmmm. Not sure of what value this statement is as it leads a bit off topic.....but i have one. Made by AHM a long time ago! (I think) a three pole motor fills the cab, It's DC of course and i am DCC so i can't even see if it run. I think many of their early steamers were a bit out of scale. But it is nice to look at.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

LateStarter said:


> This little guy has ESU LokSound and KeepAlive in it.
> Don't tell me there's not enough room for sound in an 0-4-0!
> View attachment 561649
> View attachment 561650


That's...dare I say?...cute. 😊👍


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