# Benchwork Height



## grpaine (Jun 18, 2016)

I’m about ready to hang some frames on my walls that will support the plywood and 2” of foam for my HO layout. I read quite a bit about suggested height and decided on 50” then bumped it to 51” because that’s the year I was born. Easy to remember. I built a prototype on the wall and was surprised at how tall 51” seems. I built another prototype at 48” and 45”. From my wife’s and my novice points of view, the 45” seems the best height. We’re both rather tall; 5’ 10” and 5’ 9”. When we show it to other non-railroad people they ask why I would want it higher.

The rule of thumb seemed to be “third shirt button from the top button”. For me that’s 53”.

Once these go up they’re not moving so I need to get it right the first time. Am I going to regret having the top of the foam at 45”? If it’s higher can you see all of the landscape and features further in the back, along the wall (34” away)?


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

grpaine said:


> I’m about ready to hang some frames on my walls that will support the plywood and 2” of foam for my HO layout. I read quite a bit about suggested height and decided on 50” then bumped it to 51” because that’s the year I was born. Easy to remember. I built a prototype on the wall and was surprised at how tall 51” seems. I built another prototype at 48” and 45”. From my wife’s and my novice points of view, the 45” seems the best height. We’re both rather tall; 5’ 10” and 5’ 9”. When we show it to other non-railroad people they ask why I would want it higher.
> 
> The rule of thumb seemed to be “third shirt button from the top button”. For me that’s 53”.
> 
> Once these go up they’re not moving so I need to get it right the first time. Am I going to regret having the top of the foam at 45”? If it’s higher can you see all of the landscape and features further in the back, along the wall (34” away)?


That's awfully high. I built mine quite a bit lower (33"), but part of the reason is I have two grandsons. I wanted them to be able to sit in a chair and watch everything run.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I don't think there is a set standard. I checked all through the NMRA standards and it's not there. 
I built mine mostly at about 45" and it just high enough so you can bend over and get a rail fan perspective or stand up and get a tree top perspective of the trains.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I have mine at 43-1/2" (I just measured it). I like being able to work on things without having things in the foreground get knocked out of place. This height will enable me to see the details of my layout, and allow for easier work on the cars and locomotives. Some people like having the tracks at eye level, but that would make working on things more difficult and result in more 'displacement' of foreground scenery.
I think 45" would be about right.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

As a pure newbie 6+ years ago, I had no clue about a good height for the layout. Mainly because I started out with a 4X8 sheet of plywood resting on a couple of card tables.
As everything evolved over the next couple of years I ended up with 34 1/2" from floor to top of the layout.
I now curse myself for it being that low. I'm 6'2" and it's impossible to sit underneath the layout to do electrical wiring without breaking my neck.
If I could go back in time I would have made it at least 38"/40", but hindsight is always 20/20, right?
The "correct" height is primarily determined by YOUR height and comfort when working underneath the layout which, trust me, you will be doing for hours and hours.
Have fun,
Bob


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Just a suggestion, measure out 34" from the wall and then up to your chosen height. You then can see how easy or difficult your reach to the rear of your layout is going to be. It's no fun standing on a stool or stretching out when you start to build your dream. My 8ft by 6ft6" tabletop is 36-1/2" high.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I built my last layout only 27" high. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed working on it and letting the two small grandsons enjoy it from their vantage point. Getting under it was a bear, though. I'm soon to be 65.

Grandsons eventually get tall enough to enjoy eye-level views of the trains somewhere near 40", and for most people, regardless of their height, bending at the waste and reaching into a layout for any reason gets more difficult much higher than that. Eventually, the underside is so high that sitting on the floor under it and trying to perform wiring and soldering, or making linkages to turnout throwbars, gets old really quickly due to the reach overhead. Here I'm talking about in excess of 48" or so.

If the working surface is too high, your elbows will become battering rams, if inadvertently, to things within 20" of the front surface. You need to be able to bend at the waist and able to reach about 30" without having to stand on anything. Tust me, having to drag around a single level footstool loses its charm after about six days because you must either shove it with your foot ahead of you or bend over to pick it up.

Pick a height, is my advice, where working on most of the operating surface can be done comfortably by bending at the waist and reaching no more than 30" in. The other consideration would be if you can still enjoy the view while seated, say on a wheeled office-type chair when you want to relax and take a load off. For most of us, that keeps the table height near 40-44".


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## isoc (Jan 23, 2017)

44" for me, and that keeps it comfortable to reach out to most areas of scenery work and track work without having to stand on a step. That's the top of the benchwork, but objects set on the benchwork (structures and scenery) are consequently higher. I'm 5'10". - Ted


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I have mine at 36" which is perfect for me as I am always seated. I use it for a work bench too. I guess its whatever's comfortable for you and what height you operate from.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

One factor to consider when deciding on the height of
your benchwork is head clearance when you have
to work under it. 

I measured myself sitting as I would when wiring
under there, then added a couple of inches. 

It's no fun banging your head on the frame or
turnout motors.

Don


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## grpaine (Jun 18, 2016)

Geez, all of these suggested heights are way lower than I remember reading about. But after searching I can't find any of those threads I read regarding height. I distinctly remember several guys saying the third button down on a dress shirt.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Mine is 53" which gives the perspective of being on the roof of a building on the layout.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Mine averages around 48" high. At this level the trains and scenery is closer to eye level and it also leaves me plenty of room to access the under side of the layout. I started the layout over 30 years ago and now that I'm older, I really appreciate the height.


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## doneuald (Jan 2, 2016)

build it to the height your comfortable with, then if it's to tall for little ones and step stool is needed is all


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Really, this is a very individual decision. Since adult humans of "normal" height range from about 4'10" high to well over 6', there is no one height that's going to be right for everyone.

My layout is at 48", which is great for a more "overpass level" view (I'm 6'1"), and a good height for working on / managing equipment without stooping.

MY son's layout is at 36", because that was a good height for him when we started building it. Well, he's grown now (fancy that!!), and it's too low to be comfortable to work on. I end up with sever back strain after about half an hour.

Bottom line, use whatever height is most comfortable for you. Experiment a little before you commit.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

I'm making the same decision too. 

I like the perspective of a high table height, but I have to consider the working perspective too - being able to reach things without tearing something up. 

I also have other considerations to think about - namely the windows in the room. I may end up blocking most off, but the 800 lb. gorilla in the room is a window unit air conditioner.


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## A&NRR (Aug 2, 2015)

My layouts in the past I've built at 48". It seemed to work for me being 5'8" tall. My current layout, still in designing stage, is 24' wide shelves with two 4'x8' peninsulas at each end. This one I'm focusing on the finished layout at 36". Reason why is that I want to relax on the love seat and watch the trains roll by. I've heard of guys having a higher build height then when finished they lower the entire layout for a comfortable operating height. If your planning a duck under then definitely go with a high height.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

A&NRR said:


> My layouts in the past I've built at 48". It seemed to work for me being 5'8" tall. My current layout, still in designing stage, is 24' wide shelves with two 4'x8' peninsulas at each end. This one I'm focusing on the finished layout at 36". Reason why is that I want to relax on the love seat and watch the trains roll by. I've heard of guys having a higher build height then when finished they lower the entire layout for a comfortable operating height. If your planning a duck under then definitely go with a high height.


If you're a "sit and watch" model railroader, you probably would want something lower. If you prefer switching and operations, higher (within reason) is better.


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## A&NRR (Aug 2, 2015)

That's one problem I have, I like to do both. But I do plan on running it sitting down on a roll around chair. With all turnouts remote control and Micro Trains uncoupling magnets strategically placed under the track.


CTValleyRR said:


> If you're a "sit and watch" model railroader, you probably would want something lower. If you prefer switching and operations, higher (within reason) is better.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

grpaine said:


> Geez, all of these suggested heights are way lower than I remember reading about. But after searching I can't find any of those threads I read regarding height. I distinctly remember several guys saying the third button down on a dress shirt.


But that will vary from a 5 ft 5 in man to a 6 ft 4 in man......


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## isoc (Jan 23, 2017)

Cycleops said:


> I have mine at 36" which is perfect for me as I am always seated. I use it for a work bench too. I guess its whatever's comfortable for you and what height you operate from.


I have this chair for astronomy observing, since it's adjustable depending on where I point my telescope. This could work for my 44" + layout, too, and be useful for others of varied height who want to sit. 

https://www.amazon.com/Vestil-CPRO-...id=1491528178&sr=8-2&keywords=astronomy+chair

- Ted


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## grpaine (Jun 18, 2016)

I guess I'm in the ballpark then at 45" and being 5' 10" tall. Thanks for everyone's help. Time to slap some paint on the walls.


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## A&NRR (Aug 2, 2015)

Best of luck to you, the fun has only began. I'll be putting paint on my walls, that is as soon as I get the sheetrock up. Course that's after I get the insulation in, which is after etc... etc...


grpaine said:


> I guess I'm in the ballpark then at 45" and being 5' 10" tall. Thanks for everyone's help. Time to slap some paint on the walls.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

A&NRR said:


> Best of luck to you, the fun has only began. I'll be putting paint on my walls, that is as soon as I get the sheetrock up. Course that's after I get the insulation in, which is after etc... etc...


It's always something, isn't it? Good luck!


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## A&NRR (Aug 2, 2015)

The good Lord built the world in six days, it'll take me a little longer to build East Texas in 12' x 20'.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Built high, now wish it was lower!*



grpaine said:


> I guess I'm in the ballpark then at 45" and being 5' 10" tall. Thanks for everyone's help. Time to slap some paint on the walls.


grpaine;

I'm tall 6'-6". I built my two level layout with the top level at near my extra high eye level. The bottom level is 16" lower and just a bit high to operate from a roll around chair. The layout was started when I was younger and able to stand up longer. Things, and people, change. I'm now 68 and partially disabled. This means I can't stand up very long at all. I now wish I had built my layout lower. One thing in the design did prove to be a hobby saver for me. The railroad was built sectional. This means no "under the table work" at all. If I needed to work underneath, I'd be physically unable to do it and there goes my model railroading hobby. With sections, I can dismount one at a time and work on it sitting at my workbench. I can also turn the section upside down to do what used to be "under the table work." You would not believe the difference! Working where you can see, and reach everything without working over your head is infinitely easier! You will never hit your head on any part of your layout, or have solder fall on you. I highly recommend sectional construction, and I suggest you seriously consider mounting your layout low enough to work from a chair.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Traction fan,

I am also 6'6" tall and am struggling with what bench height for my layout.

It will be two level not counting staging below. Would you mind opening another thread or post a link to see how you have modualized a two level layout in such a way that you can flip the modules over to work on?


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

While reading this thread it's fairly obvious we're of various ages, heights, and health.
These factors certainly change between the time we start our layout and "now", that's for sure.
Over six years ago, when I first started, I had NO vision issues, no back ache issues, and my feet didn't hurt after 30 minutes on hard concrete.
That's ALL changed!
My friendly suggestion to any newbie would be to attempt a glance into the future and take all this into consideration.
As my Dad used to say, "Father time waits for no man".
He was right!
Bob


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Getting old sucks, and there's no way to avoid it!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*My sectional construction*



FzCruzer said:


> Traction fan,
> 
> I am also 6'6" tall and am struggling with what bench height for my layout.
> 
> It will be two level not counting staging below. Would you mind opening another thread or post a link to see how you have modualized a two level layout in such a way that you can flip the modules over to work on?


FzCruzer;

As for layout height, I strongly recommend, from my own sad experience, that you try to have as much of all levels view-able and operable from a roll around chair as you possibly can. Of course that will depend on the height of your sections, which, in turn, may depend on which scale you are using. My railroad is N-scale and the section height is 16". The straight sections are also 16" deep, and 4' long. You might even elect to re-locate the staging, if reaching it means a trip to the floor. I don't know your present age and physical flexibility, but I do know they won't last.

There's no magic to my method, in fact, the original idea isn't even mine. I got the basic design for my sectional layout from an old (1971?) Model Railroader article called "Bookshelf Model Railroads." I loved the design, which basically uses arches to support the top (book or whatever) shelf without any vertical support posts in front. This gives a continuous, unobstructed view of the railroad on the bottom shelf. 
I did not like the materials the author used on his original shelf layout. He used commercial shelves. (probably pressed wood covered with veneer) The arches were 3/4" plywood. Each 4' section must have weighed the proverbial "ton!" Since I had intended to possibly haul my bookshelf railroad to train shows (false wall and all, never really happened.) I went to the opposite extreme by making my sections super light. (1/4" Luan plywood filled with Styrofoam.) I could lift a 4' section with one finger, yet it was strong enough to sit on. Later, realizing that the layout was never going to a train show, I went back to more conventional lumber. I did have to move the railroad once, to a new house. This was fairly easy since the layout was sectional.
As for two levels, one row of sections is simply mounted above the other. The main line is nearly all grade, to climb from one level to the next. End sections are wider than the 16" depth of the straight sections. This is to accommodate turn-back loops for continuous running. 

The photo directly below shows an end view of one of my original, 4' sections. Notice the arch construction, and the holes in the arch (two in the top and two in the bottom) to let it be bolted to the next section. The top shelf supports an enormous weight of books when upright. Empty, the same top shelf supports the section when I turn it upside down, to work on the bottom. So long as everything is firmly attached, and I remember to remove the trains,  there will be no damage from inverting a section. The center photo shows the same section from the bottom. All this hardware is easily accessible when the section is upside down.
The last photo shows how thin Luan and Styrofoam can be glued to form a very strong, and incredibly lightweight, beam. The arches on my original sections are built this way. I wouldn't bother with this form of construction unless you are building a portable layout that will be moved often.

Hope that answers your questions;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Hmmmmmm.............

I've scored a huge amount of Kato Unitrack HO cheap.

Working on getting an around the wall layout going in the older boys room. I'm 6'6 and he is already 54+ inches tall at 7(in March, he's huge).

Got the 5 bookcases in, need to get carpet pulled and patch and paint the walls before getting serious. 

50 inches give or take clears the bookcases, dresser and leaves plenty of room available over the bed section which will be single track hugging the wall(aka under 4 inches wide).

Also serves to clear the light switch.

He can see at that level but to work/switch he would need a small stool. Not a big deal for him.


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## Rock022 (Jan 2, 2017)

I googled "Table Hight NMRA" and I got this image. So I made my table at 40" high.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Whatever you do, have height adjusters on the legs so you can get it to sit level on uneven floors.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*N-track standards*



Rock022 said:


> I googled "Table Hight NMRA" and I got this image. So I made my table at 40" high.


Rock022;

The diagram you found and posted looks like an N-track module. N-track is an organization of N-scale modelers. They build modules to the standards shown in your diagram, and connect multiple modules into giant display layouts at train shows, and sometimes at shopping malls, or other public venues. The 40" standard quoted is needed so that all modules will be the same height, to let them be connected.
If you are happy with 40" for your own railroad, then by all means use it. As you can see, reading through this thread, benchwork heights vary all over the place to suit the individual modeler. I don't know if the NMRA has a standard for height, or not. Even if such a standard exists, there is no reason to follow it, unless you just want to. Unlike N-track modules, your railroad's height,presumably, won't need to match anyone's.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Right. As we've said before, there is no "standard" for benchwork height. It's a matter of individual preference.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I'm amazed no one has bothered to look for it.....this is a quote right from the NMRA site about layout and benchwork height:



> There is a great deal of argument as to what the proper height for a layout is. Most experienced model railroaders tend to put their layouts at relatively high levels nowadays. Typically a minimum of 42" (and often considerably higher). This is because our models look better when viewed near eye level. The problem with a higher layout is that it is harder to reach into the center of it for construction and maintenance. You should also consider who will be viewing (and maybe working on) your layout. If you have children, you may want to build the layout quite a bit lower (perhaps as low as 30-36") so they can see it easily. There is no one correct height, so decide what will work for you and go for it!


Found here:

http://www.nmra.org/beginner/benchwork


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## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

My layout (a duckunder) is at 53" - I'm 75" tall. I'll be the sole operator almost all the time; this height works perfectly for me.

Mike


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> I'm amazed no one has bothered to look for it.....this is a quote right from the NMRA site about layout and benchwork height:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because I already knew their position on it. I didn't need to look.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Ah, the great Carnac the Magnificent has spoken.....we can all rest now.....:laugh:

There are others here (I know, hard to believe, right?) that didn't know, so I offered to help....hope that was ok with you.....


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Gentlemen......
Play nice!


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

traction fan said:


> FzCruzer;
> 
> As for layout height, I strongly recommend, from my own sad experience, that you try to have as much of all levels view-able and operable from a roll around chair as you possibly can. Of course that will depend on the height of your sections, which, in turn, may depend on which scale you are using. My railroad is N-scale and the section height is 16". The straight sections are also 16" deep, and 4' long. You might even elect to re-locate the staging, if reaching it means a trip to the floor. I don't know your present age and physical flexibility, but I do know they won't last.


Traction Fan,

Thank you for your detailed post. I am 50 years old and currently have good mobility and health. I will be modeling in HO scale.

I had not really thought about making the first level operable from a chair as I would prefer to stand, but I see your point. My Father will be running trains with me when he visits and his mobility is an issue and will only get worse as he gets older. Being able to run trains at least on the lower level being seated might be a good idea. My Wife is only 5"1" on a good day and might want to see something other than the fascia sometimes. 

Also, with the two levels things get pretty high if I make it ideal for my 6'6" height. I think I am going to mock up a module with the lower level at 40" and the upper level at 58" and adjust from there. 

Thanks again for your helpful contributions to the forum.


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## long_haired_david (Aug 12, 2014)

I have bad mobility issues and when out and about use a wheelchair. I can only stand for about 3- 4 minutes before my lower spine gives out. I had my layout on kitchen units, which stood at around 38". As I can't get under, I built the layout out of 5mm foam core so that I could lift it around without bending. That put about 4" or so on as I use DCC Concepts slo-mo point motors and they stick down a long way. I have been building the layout for about 9 months(see Gentle Model Railways). The work has slowed down as I am being less able to stand and work on it. 
We have now taken that railroad down and I am building a new one. We have taken the legs off the units so the height has now dropped to 33" including the space for the motors. This means I can roll around on my office chair and either work on or run the railroad. Plus, as my mobility gets worse, I will be able to use my wheelchair. Here is the room ready for the foam core.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Some sugestions*



long_haired_david said:


> I have bad mobility issues and when out and about use a wheelchair. I can only stand for about 3- 4 minutes before my lower spine gives out. I had my layout on kitchen units, which stood at around 38". As I can't get under, I built the layout out of 5mm foam core so that I could lift it around without bending. That put about 4" or so on as I use DCC Concepts slo-mo point motors and they stick down a long way. I have been building the layout for about 9 months(see Gentle Model Railways). The work has slowed down as I am being less able to stand and work on it.
> We have now taken that railroad down and I am building a new one. We have taken the legs off the units so the height has now dropped to 33" including the space for the motors. This means I can roll around on my office chair and either work on or run the railroad. Plus, as my mobility gets worse, I will be able to use my wheelchair. Here is the room ready for the foam core.


long_Haired_David;

Some other tricks I've used might help you with your new layout. 

1) Sectional construction. 
The foam is a great idea, but even though it's very lightweight, it sounds like it might be bulky and possibly awkward to work on when lifted? (those are guesses on my part as you did not specify hoe long and wide the foam is.) If you feel that the foam may be a bit too big to handle, you might want to cut it down to more manageable pieces. I saw an article where the man had a basic wood frame, with 18" squares of foam set inside it. When he needed to work on one part, he just pulled it up out of the layout, took it over to a table and worked on it comfortably, while sitting down. I use another variation of this idea. My larger sections (16"H x 16"D x 48"L) are built with a top bookshelf. I can unbolt one and take it to my workbench. I can turn it upside down to work on the bottom. However I have moved everything I can, including switch motors, to the front. That way I can access them sitting down without removing and inverting a section. 

2) Everything possible up front, not underneath.

I got this one from a Model Railroader Magazine article. It fits my "can't crawl under the layout anymore" situation well. The only things still under the layout are metal rod in a tube linkages and the wires that connect directly to the tracks. Everything else (all the complicated, high maintenance, stuff) is right behind a hinged panel at the front. (see photos) Your present switch motors could likely be adapted to work through linkages if you wish.

hope that helps you as it has me; 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Other photos*

Long_haired_Dave;

Couldn't fit all the photos in my first reply. Here are the others.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## long_haired_david (Aug 12, 2014)

Thanks for the comments. I build in 840mm (32") x 595mm (23") units. They weight very little, even with a lot of strengthening panels underneath. I use DCC Concepts Digital turnout motors and I can't think of a way to bring them to the front. As it is, it is easy to solve a problem because I always drive the point motor from the point above which always takes its power from the adjacent track. If there is an issue, I can just cut around the point and lift it out. I then just have to put in a couple of supporting struts (hot glued) and I can pt the point back in. I have only had one problem with the previous layout. I am using sturdier power connections this time so I expect better performance. I do try and put just short stretcher track across the joins so that I can disconnect one but the layout always seems to need a point there :-(.
I am building the base units now. I will post some more photos as I go along.I will also update my blog at Gentle Model Railways.


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## long_haired_david (Aug 12, 2014)

Here is a shot of the first three boards completed. I need to get some wood now to buld the support around the next wall as the kitchen units only go down one side.










and here is the space that I am filling:









David


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Chair height and stool height?*



FzCruzer said:


> Traction Fan,
> 
> Thank you for your detailed post. I am 50 years old and currently have good mobility and health. I will be modeling in HO scale.
> 
> ...


FZCruzer;

Thank you for the compliment. Perhaps, with the heights you have chosen, your wife and dad will be able to see/run the trains on the top level from a high stool?

good luck with whatever you decide;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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