# ERR/3rd Rail Offering



## coltstarbucks (Sep 21, 2016)

The news that 3rd rail has picked the ERR line of products is great news. However, once again the stepchild is being over looked. That is S-gauge. I have used the ERR TMCC products in several Gilbert AF engines, American Model engines with great success. I hope that 3rd Rail will not over look the need for addressing the S-Gauge world in building TMCC products. Not only is the O gauge world happy with the news, so are S-gaugers. 

Thanks Scott for stepping up to this task. I hope you will see many orders from S-gauge modelers. I will be placing orders for units for my engines as well as to have in case a board fails in one of my Lionel engines. :thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I am hopeful that at some point in the near future that the Cruise Commander Lite and the Mini Commander II will be produced. I was disappointed they didn't include the smaller boards.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Need some knowledge. If someone has the time, explain what the ERR boards do.
Are they sound boards or control boards or both? What system does it take to control
ERR. I am a conventional (transformer) operator. Thanks for any info.


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## BHR301 (Mar 6, 2018)

ERR is a company not an operating system, they produce both control and sound boards...I tend to think of TMCC as an AC powered version of DCC...ERR boards are decoders for use with Lionel's TMCC control system.


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

I am with you John. Without the Mini II or Cruise Lite boards being part of the 3rd Rail offerings, I am out of luck. My next conversion will be installing an MTH PS3 board. I added MTH's DCS to my layout last year so I could get full functionality out of my F-3's and I could run Legacy/TMCC through the same DCS app.

A few comments on some posts above....

Actually DCC runs on AC, a particular sine wave though which is different from post war transformers.

ERR simply sold control and sound boards so TMCC or Legacy users like myself could customize/upgrade non command control engines as I do with all of my American Models engines and with one of my Gilbert Flyer steamers.

TMCC can be fully operated by a TMCC base and remote or a Legacy base and remote.


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## BHR301 (Mar 6, 2018)

Chuck7612...better recheck your facts. DCC runs on DC current not AC.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

BHR301 said:


> Chuck7612...better recheck your facts. DCC runs on DC current not AC.


I was under the assumption that DCC uses AC to transmit the code which is then converted by the decoder to DC for the different outputs. My Power Cab produces AC, not DC.


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

I have installed railsounds in my AF 336 and it works and sound great.


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

BHR301 said:


> Chuck7612...better recheck your facts. DCC runs on DC current not AC.


No need for me to re-check, because the facts are that DCC is square-wave AC whose frequency is modulated to embed a digital signal. This supplies the +12V and - 12V (or greater) to run the DC motors. The wave has to be +/- to allow reversing. Each decoder rectifies this square wave and applies DC to turn the motor, on command.


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## BHR301 (Mar 6, 2018)

I stand corrected...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

My understanding is that signals are sent on AC to the track and decoder in locomotive
sends DC to motor and lights. A lot of back and forth with DCC with AC and DC. My DCC
system runs off a DC power supply that runs off AC. Sends AC to track and decoder sends DC. 
I have no clue what square wave and sine wave is. I just know it works. I am ok with that.
I use DCC for my HO trains.

All my O scale locomotives have RailSounds. Both diesels and steam. I am happy with them.
I have RailSounds B units for my S scale diesels. Nothing for my S steamers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

DCC is a PWM AC square wave. There's always some discussion whether it's AC or DC, but in my mind it's certainly AC. It the waveform varies around 0 volts with an average DC component of 0 volts, that's AC from where I sit. YMMV

A special case exists with DCC address 00, that actually biases the square wave AC with a DC component to provide for conventional operation.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

mopac said:


> ...I have no clue what square wave and sine wave is...


Sine wave vs. square wave:









A sine wave is what your house current would look like on an oscilloscope. This is what most people are familiar with when they hear the term AC (alternating current).

However, current can also alternate in the form of a square wave. Note the sharp transitions vs. the smooth flow of a sine wave.

DCC uses a type of square wave with different pulse widths to differentiate between a "1" and a "0".









A "1" in DCC is 58µs positive and 58µs negative , while a "0" is 100µs positive and 100µs negative.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for the info. LOL, way over my pay grade, but thanks.


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