# DCC Wiring question



## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

I think I need some clarification to see if I understand things correctly. I have been told two ways to do the wiring and I want to be sure. I am running an N gauge layout with 3 loops, all in the same direction (no reversing loop area). There are cross overs to let me switch the train to a different loop. The whole layout will be on a single 4x8 table.

My question is if I need to gap the rails into separate districts for DCC or not. I have seen posts and read that I should gap them and seen posts saying it is not necessary. Either way, every one seems to agree I should run drops every few feet around the track.

If I understand this correctly, I can run with no gapping in the rails, just running drops from the bus as needed to keep the track powered properly. Running just four trains, my command station (a Digitrax Zephyr) should put out enough power that I don't need a separate booster. The only advantage to gapping the rails would be that if I get a short somewhere (like a train jumping a turnout or derailing), it will shut down just that area and if I do not have any gaps, it will shut down the whole layout until it is fixed.

Am I right in my understanding or do I really need to gap the rails at some places anyway?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Some turnouts may require you to insulate the rails because of the way they power the frog or the frog rails. Otherwise, no gap is necessary.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Some turnouts may require you to insulate the rails because of the way they power the frog or the frog rails. Otherwise, no gap is necessary.


Thanks, I am using Kato Unitrack with a mix of #4 and #6 turnouts (I believe that both are power routing) and one of their X cross tracks. I will try without the gaps and see what happens.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> I think I need some clarification to see if I understand things correctly. I have been told two ways to do the wiring and I want to be sure. I am running an N gauge layout with 3 loops, all in the same direction (no reversing loop area). There are cross overs to let me switch the train to a different loop. The whole layout will be on a single 4x8 table.
> 
> My question is if I need to gap the rails into separate districts for DCC or not. I have seen posts and read that I should gap them and seen posts saying it is not necessary. Either way, every one seems to agree I should run drops every few feet around the track.
> 
> ...


Steve;

Except for certain situations, you don't need any gaps , or insulated rail joiners on a DCC layout. The thing you mentioned about gaps preventing a short circuit from shutting down the whole layout, is called dividing a layout into "Power Districts." Given the small size, and simple track plan, of your layout, power districts would be unnecessary.

CTValley touched on one situation where you might need to use insulated rail joiners on some turnouts.
Another place you will need them is on both rails of each of your crossovers. This prevents short circuits if both turnouts are set for the train to crossover from one loop to another. One turnout will have its outer point rail on the "red bus wire rail", and the other turnout's outer rail will be connected to the "black bus wire rail." This can cause a dead short.
As a general good practice, some modelers install insulated rail joiners on all six rails of all their turnouts. My old club did this. Although they were using DC at that time. They added feeder wires to each of the outside rails, and to the frog, of each turnout.
These feeder wires would be connected to bus wires, which bypassed the insulated joiners, which sounds silly, until you had to troubleshoot a short. 90% of shorts happened at turnouts, and being able to electrically isolate one by disconnecting the feeders, was a great help.

Good Luck & have fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## cfurnari (Aug 2, 2020)

gotta make some notes........


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

traction fan said:


> CTValley touched on one situation where you might need to use insulated rail joiners on some turnouts.
> Another place you will need them is on both rails of each of your crossovers. This prevents short circuits if both turnouts are set for the train to crossover from one loop to another. One turnout will have its outer point rail on the "red bus wire rail", and the other turnout's outer rail will be connected to the "black bus wire rail." This can cause a dead short.


Thanks, Traction Fan. I had read a lot about people using the insulated joiners on the turnouts and almost as much where people said they were not really needed. I am only using one cross-over section between my inner two loops and it does throw both sides at the same time. It is either set to both rails go straight or both rails cross. I will look at it further and figure a way to wire it so there are no shorts. I have plenty of the insulated joiners to isolate that single piece of track and do custom wiring for it. The shipment with the cross over just came today, so now I can really look at it to figure it out. 

To get from the middle loop to the outer loop, I used two sets of turnouts with a short straight between them to give me some spacing instead a looking like a three rail main on that side. I should be able to handle those without a problem.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Steve

If the turnouts you use are 'Electrofrog' (metal frog) there must be gaps in BOTH frog rails. The reason for this
is that the frog and connecting rails change 'polarity' (or phase) when the points move. Without
the gaps there would be a short circuit.

If yours are 'Insulfrog' (plastic frog) no gaps are needed since the frog rails do not
change 'polarity' when the points move.

Your Zepher has sufficient power to run a number of non sound locos at
the same time...such as in multi-loco consists.. Only if you intend
to run several SOUND locos at the same time would there be a possible need for a
5 amp booster. but even that is doubtful on an N layout.

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Thanks, Traction Fan. I had read a lot about people using the insulated joiners on the turnouts and almost as much where people said they were not really needed. I am only using one cross-over section between my inner two loops and it does throw both sides at the same time. It is either set to both rails go straight or both rails cross. I will look at it further and figure a way to wire it so there are no shorts. I have plenty of the insulated joiners to isolate that single piece of track and do custom wiring for it. The shipment with the cross over just came today, so now I can really look at it to figure it out.
> 
> To get from the middle loop to the outer loop, I used two sets of turnouts with a short straight between them to give me some spacing instead a looking like a three rail main on that side. I should be able to handle those without a problem.


Steve;

If the crossover you ordered is a commercial product and sold all in one piece, it probably has the necessary insulators factory installed. I thought you were making a crossover from two individual turnouts. In that case the insulated joiners would be necessary. 

The photo below shows two #8 turnouts connected as a crossover, and a third, separate, #4 turnout on the lower right. When I built these turnouts, I cut insulating gaps in both rails where the two #8 turnouts meet. This prevents shorts when the two #8 turnouts are set for the crossover route from one track to another..


Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Steve;
> 
> If the crossover you ordered is a commercial product and sold all in one piece, it probably has the necessary insulators factory installed. I thought you were making a crossover from two individual turnouts. In that case the insulated joiners would be necessary.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I am using all Kato Factory made track. To get from the middle loop to the outer loop, I am using Kato #6 turnouts very similar to what you show in your picture. I just have one of their 3" straight section in between the two turnouts to give a little distance between the tracks. I think these will work as they are right now. The track I was wondering about is a Kato WX-310, which is their double cross-over track. It looks like 4 turnouts combined into one piece of track so that the curve tracks form an X in the middle. It finally came in the mail and I took it out and looked at it. Every rail in it has a cut gap in the center to help prevent anything from shorting. It has plastic frogs, so I think I will be okay without the insulated joiners. I will try that first, and if I get a short in it, I will have to figure out how to open up the bottom and solder in wires how you suggested earlier.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Thanks. I am using all Kato Factory made track. To get from the middle loop to the outer loop, I am using Kato #6 turnouts very similar to what you show in your picture. I just have one of their 3" straight section in between the two turnouts to give a little distance between the tracks. I think these will work as they are right now. The track I was wondering about is a Kato WX-310, which is their double cross-over track. It looks like 4 turnouts combined into one piece of track so that the curve tracks form an X in the middle. It finally came in the mail and I took it out and looked at it. Every rail in it has a cut gap in the center to help prevent anything from shorting. It has plastic frogs, so I think I will be okay without the insulated joiners. I will try that first, and if I get a short in it, I will have to figure out how to open up the bottom and solder in wires how you suggested earlier.


Steve;

Your pre-made Kato double crossover, with the insulated gaps, should not need any insulated joiners. The gaps installed at the factory will prevent shorts.

Traction Fan


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

I'm at my wits end here. Actually, I have no wits left. I completed laying the track for my HO layout, ~ 88' total and all Peco Code 83, including 3 Peco Code 83 turnouts (these are non-powered with manual throws).

I have an MRC Advance Prodigy2 power system temporarily hooked up with wired rail joiners. I'm getting a "short" error code "SVDA" WITHOUT anything on the rails ( no engines, no rolling stock)

History:

I have laid ~ 88' of track on my 5'x16' board, all new Peco Code 83 superflex 3' sections. The track is on a foam roadbed and glued down.
I put a new engine on it and turned the power on the MRC Advance Prodigy2 to the layout.
The engine ran fine about half-way around and then stopped. The MRC cab displayed a blinking error code "SVDA". A short in the system.
I've taken the engine off and there's nothing on the track. I cleaned the entire layout with an abrasive eraser and checked all the joiners. Not all the 3' sections have the rails together tightly, small gaps which didn't affect the engine when it ran. Also made sure there were no metal objects on the rails.
Called MRC yesterday and John had me unplug the power module and then turn on the power. No error code. Put module back in, error code.
He said it's a short somewhere in the tracks. Also when I described the layout, he zeroed in on the 3 Peco turnouts, suggesting I remove them and inspect. Note: they are non-powered and I plan on setting them manually.
I was an idiot for gluing down the tracks and I don't want to cut out the turnouts unless absolutely necessary.
Does any of this make sense? The MRC power shuts off track power in the event of a short, so I don't think I can check the input voltage to the tracks.
I looked closely at all the tracks, no pieces of metal or anything on them.

So, can the Peco turnouts be causing the short when there's nothing on the tracks? 

????


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

rvnmedic6869 said:


> I'm at my wits end here. Actually, I have no wits left. I completed laying the track for my HO layout, ~ 88' total and all Peco Code 83, including 3 Peco Code 83 turnouts (these are non-powered with manual throws).
> 
> I have an MRC Advance Prodigy2 power system temporarily hooked up with wired rail joiners. I'm getting a "short" error code "SVDA" WITHOUT anything on the rails ( no engines, no rolling stock)
> 
> ...


I am just guessing since I have very little experience, but is it possible you have a reversing section and did not realize it? I would start with a systematic approach of having all three turnouts set to go straight. Then try each turnout thrown the other way, one at a time, then each combination of two turnouts thrown (1 & 2, 1& 3, 2&3), then all three.

The other possibility is if you have the wires to the rails crossed at some point. If the drops are not always the red wire to the one rail, it will short. Depending how many drops and where they are located, that might also only show up when one of the turnouts is thrown. I think the short would have shown up as soon as you turned the track on if this is the problem and it were not dependent on the turnouts being set a certain way.

Hope that helps a little. I am sure one of the more expereinced moderlers will chime in soon with better advice.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

And that is why some of us more experienced still use the tried and true method of a hammer, track nails, and a punch to lay track.

Check all the drops from the turnouts if you wired each leg to the buss like I did. Meter the turnouts to check for shorts.


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

Steve Rothstein said:


> I am just guessing since I have very little experience, but is it possible you have a reversing section and did not realize it? I would start with a systematic approach of having all three turnouts set to go straight. Then try each turnout thrown the other way, one at a time, then each combination of two turnouts thrown (1 & 2, 1& 3, 2&3), then all three.
> 
> The other possibility is if you have the wires to the rails crossed at some point. If the drops are not always the red wire to the one rail, it will short. Depending how many drops and where they are located, that might also only show up when one of the turnouts is thrown. I think the short would have shown up as soon as you turned the track on if this is the problem and it were not dependent on the turnouts being set a certain way.
> 
> Hope that helps a little. I am sure one of the more expereinced moderlers will chime in soon with better advice.


No, no reversing section on the layout. Just a long main all around the rectangle with a turnout off the main that parallels it and then rejoins the main at the other end.

I have NO wire drops from the turnouts at all. No turnout machines, nada. Will just do manual switching.

I did align all turnouts to the main. Still get the short.

The only power to the rails is from the MRC power module with two wires that are soldered to rail joiners (Peco 81 I think).

Very simple and that's why I can't figure out having a short in the system


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> And that is why some of us more experienced still use the tried and true method of a hammer, track nails, and a punch to lay track.
> 
> Check all the drops from the turnouts if you wired each leg to the buss like I did. Meter the turnouts to check for shorts.


And many of us, also more experienced folks, glue down our track... but NOT before testing it! Besides, if you're using foam as a surface, good luck getting nails to hold in it. This is a clear case of "different is not better". All methods have advantages and disadvantages.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

On foam, sure. I wouldn't expect track nails to hold in foam. You don't have a lot of choices to hold track on that sub-roadbed.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rvnmedic6869 said:


> No, no reversing section on the layout. Just a long main all around the rectangle with a turnout off the main that parallels it and then rejoins the main at the other end.
> 
> I have NO wire drops from the turnouts at all. No turnout machines, nada. Will just do manual switching.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the "svda" error code means exactly what the MRC folks said. You have a short. Period. You'll have to persevere until you find it. Having an operational layout, the ONLY time I see that error is when I run a loco through a turnout against the setting of the points. This causes the loco wheel to bridge the gap between rails of opposite polarity and short the system. This leads me to suspect that your turnouts are, in fact, the cause of your problem. I'm assuming that you are correct that you have no reversing loop, and that all your track feeders are attached consistently.

You said you have 3 Peco Code 83 turnouts; you've described only two -- the passing siding. Where is the third?

Next question:: if you have "Electrofrog" turnouts, did you properly insulate the frog rails?

Then try individually setting each turnout to the diverging route, one at a time, and see if one of those fixes the problem.

Resist the temptation to blame MRC. This is an issue with your layout.


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

CTValleyRR said:


> Unfortunately, the "svda" error code means exactly what the MRC folks said. You have a short. Period. You'll have to persevere until you find it. Having an operational layout, the ONLY time I see that error is when I run a loco through a turnout against the setting of the points. This causes the loco wheel to bridge the gap between rails of opposite polarity and short the system. This leads me to suspect that your turnouts are, in fact, the cause of your problem. I'm assuming that you are correct that you have no reversing loop, and that all your track feeders are attached consistently.
> 
> You said you have 3 Peco Code 83 turnouts; you've described only two -- the passing siding. Where is the third?
> 
> ...


The 3rd turnout is off the passing siding for an eventual yard setup. It's lined for the main and I don't have any tracks off of it yet.

Re the Electrofrog turnouts, this is a question that I've been asking: *if I'm not going to power the turnouts*, do they still have to insulate the frog rails? 

I DO NOT BLAME MRC. I SAID I CALLED THEM AND JOHN WAS HELPFUL


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

CTValleyRR said:


> And many of us, also more experienced folks, glue down our track... but NOT before testing it! Besides, if you're using foam as a surface, good luck getting nails to hold in it. This is a clear case of "different is not better". All methods have advantages and disadvantages.


I had track nails and yes, they couldn't hold the rails down. I have watched loads of youtube videos and also opinions on this site. Quite a few "experienced" folks mention using a) foam roadbed over cork for various reasons and b) gluing down the tracks. This is only "different" in your perspective.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You MUST have insulated joiners in BOTH frog rails of an Electrofrog turnout. The frog and it's rails are
electrically 'one'. Thus the 'polarity' changes when the points move. Without the insulated joiners
you will have a short circuit in EITHER the straight or divert track when you throw the turnout.
These problems are why many of us urge the use of the Insulfrog design. Unless you run small 4 wheel
locos or locos that don't employ all wheel power pickup there is no need for the Electrofrog. 

Don


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## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

DonR said:


> You MUST have insulated joiners in BOTH frog rails of an Electrofrog turnout. The frog and it's rails are
> electrically 'one'. Thus the 'polarity' changes when the points move. Without the insulated joiners
> you will have a short circuit in EITHER the straight or divert track when you throw the turnout.
> These problems are why many of us urge the use of the Insulfrog design. Unless you run small 4 wheel
> ...


If He must insulate the frog rails, couldn't this be done WITHOUT taking up the glued track? 

I have NOT done this, but seems I read that one could use a dremel-like cut-off wheel to cut a small gap in the rail and then glue in a small piece of styrene or other non-conductive material. File and sand to smoothness, and voila - insulated joiner. 

Has anyone done this live?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

rvnmedic6869 said:


> The 3rd turnout is off the passing siding for an eventual yard setup. It's lined for the main and I don't have any tracks off of it yet.
> 
> Re the Electrofrog turnouts, this is a question that I've been asking: *if I'm not going to power the turnouts*, do they still have to insulate the frog rails?
> 
> I DO NOT BLAME MRC. I SAID I CALLED THEM AND JOHN WAS HELPFUL


rvnmedic;

First of all let me extend to you my sympathy for what you're going through. Before retiring, I spent many years fixing a wide variety of electric machines for a living, and I have been in the same frustrated state you are now in, more than once. Get away from the problem for awhile, and do something else. Give your brain a chance to recover.

I think you are mixing up two different things when you say "you are not going to power the turnouts." I get what you're saying, that you are going to set the points of your Peco turnouts by hand, rather than attaching a Peco electric switch machine to move the points electrically.
That fact, however has absolutely nothing to do with the frustrating short circuit you are experiencing.
Any turnout, regardless of brand, or method of changing the route a train will take through that turnout, still has metal rails that carry electricity to make the train move.
This train-propelling circuit is completely separate from any circuitry that might be used to move the points with a switch machine, if someone were using such machines. (which I understand you are not.)

So, if you are using Peco Electrofrog turnouts (which have an all-metal frog) then the answer to your question above is; yes, you do still have to insulate both the short rails coming out of the frog.
Since that is the most likely cause of the short, and since you have your track glued down, I suggest this experiment. Use a Dremel tool, eye protection, and a cutting disc, to cut through the rails just beyond the rail joiners that connect the short frog rails to the rest of your track. Do the cutting on the track side of the rail joiner, a bit away from the more expensive turnout. Do this near all three turnouts.

If you don't have a Dremel tool, you can buy a decent, two speed, cord powered, one at Home Depot for about $30. While your there, buy a pair of eye protection goggles, if you don't already have some. Dremel cutting discs sometimes break apart and fly up in your face. The sharp fragments can blind you if you don't protect your eyes.
If you're reasonably careful, making these cuts in the rails won't harm your track. Once the rails just beyond all three turnouts are cut, your short should go away.

If it does not, please post a diagram of your track, or better yet, a photo of your layout showing all the track.
Also confirm that your Peco turnouts are, in fact, Electrofrogs, with the all-metal frogs. Peco Insulfrogs have an all plastic frog, and the new Peco Unifrog has a composite frog that is part metal, and part plastic. The answers to these questions will also help, if cutting those rails does not fix the problem.
What type of glue did you use to attach the track, and to what kind of surface? Plywood, foam, or something else?
Is the track glued on top of cork or foam roadbed?

Good Luck;

Traction Fan


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I think Don has the answer, the frogs rails need to be isolated. It also means you will need feeders on the other side of the isolators to power the rail.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You can use a fine rail saw or a dermal with a cutoff wheel, but the dermal method does not work to well because you end up cutting at an angle, unless you get the flexhose adapter that gives you a "smaller diameter tool". Use the cheap rail saw method and fill the gap with a piece of thin plastic that you can cut and shape to conform to the rail. The rail saw makes a really fine narrow cut as oppose to the cutoff wheel of the dermal. The dermal cut more or less matches the width of the plastic tabs used to hold bread shut. A little CA glue and trimming and your set!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> You can use a fine rail saw or a dermal with a cutoff wheel, but the dermal method does not work to well because you end up cutting at an angle, unless you get the flexhose adapter that gives you a "smaller diameter tool". Use the cheap rail saw method and fill the gap with a piece of thin plastic that you can cut and shape to conform to the rail. The rail saw makes a really fine narrow cut as oppose to the cutoff wheel of the dermal. The dermal cut more or less matches the width of the plastic tabs used to hold bread shut. A little CA glue and trimming and your set!


Lemonhawk;

I disagree with using a razor saw, instead of a Dremel tool, for cutting track. While it can be done with a saw, there is a much higher chance of damaging the track. Saws tend to bind, and even when they don't the teeth of the saw are trying to pull the rails sideways, which is a direction that exerts maximum force on the spikes, often resulting in a rail being torn out of the tie strip.

Now there are a lot of other factors that may come into play. For instance, there are special track cutting jigs that hold the rails firmly in place while it's being sawed.
Also, if someone is really clumsy with a Dremel tool, or tries to put too much pressure on it, the Dremel tool can also damage the track. However the normal direction of pressure when cutting rail with a Dremel is straight down, (or down at a slight angle if you prefer) This pushes the rail more firmly down onto the tie strip rather than trying to pull it sideways, and possibly clear off, the tie strip. Yes, of course the Dremel cutting disc is spinning toward the side, but unlike the razor saw, the disc does not have teeth to grab the rail, and try to pull it sideways.

Used correctly, I think the Dremel is a much better means of cutting rail. It has certainly worked well for me in years of scratchbuilding turnouts and other trackwork. That's just my opinion though, and to each his own method.

rvnmedic is a newbie. I suggested the Dremel because I think it offers the best chance of cutting rails, near his turnouts, without damage to either the track, or the nearby turnout, with the track already glued down. Rail nippers, or diagonal cutting pliers are another possibility, but again I feel the Dremel is more likely to leave clean edges on the cut rail than these tools will, when cutting glued down track.

Traction Fan


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm gonna have to agree with Traction Fan about using a razor saw. It's too easy to catch a saw tooth on the rails and either completely rip them out or twist them out of gauge.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rvnmedic6869 said:


> The 3rd turnout is off the passing siding for an eventual yard setup. It's lined for the main and I don't have any tracks off of it yet.
> 
> Re the Electrofrog turnouts, this is a question that I've been asking: *if I'm not going to power the turnouts*, do they still have to insulate the frog rails?
> 
> I DO NOT BLAME MRC. I SAID I CALLED THEM AND JOHN WAS HELPFUL


Really. Don't take it personally and re-read what I said. I didn't say "stop blaming MRC", I said "resist the temptation to" -- a caution to AVOID doing something, not a criticism for doing it. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear to you, but don't take your frustration out on people who are trying to help you.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rvnmedic6869 said:


> I had track nails and yes, they couldn't hold the rails down. I have watched loads of youtube videos and also opinions on this site. Quite a few "experienced" folks mention using a) foam roadbed over cork for various reasons and b) gluing down the tracks. This is only "different" in your perspective.


Again, I'm sorry if you misinterpreted this, but it was not a criticism of you, except perhaps for not testing your layout before you fastened it down. This comment, as you should have seen from what I quoted, was in response to MichaelE's implication that nailing track down was a superior method (especially the implication that people who really know what they're doing use nails); actually SUPPORTING your chosen method of using adhesive and foam. Again, try not to read criticism where none is being made.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Stejones82 said:


> If He must insulate the frog rails, couldn't this be done WITHOUT taking up the glued track?
> 
> I have NOT done this, but seems I read that one could use a dremel-like cut-off wheel to cut a small gap in the rail and then glue in a small piece of styrene or other non-conductive material. File and sand to smoothness, and voila - insulated joiner.
> 
> Has anyone done this live?


Stejones82;

Yes, I have done this many times and it works fine. In fact many modelers prefer cutting insulating gaps to using insulated rail joiners, primarily for appearance reasons.
I scratchbuild my own turnouts with an "isolated frog" meaning the metal frog on my turnouts is electrically insulated from all the other rails in the turnout. For this, I cut thin gaps in all four rails going into the frog. I super glue clear plastic into the gaps, and grind to the shape of the rail with a Dremel tool. The result is an insulated joint that is nearly invisible.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

cfurnari said:


> gotta make some notes........


cfurnari;

You're welcome to make notes of anything on this forum. Also feel free to ask any train-related questions that come up, we're here to help. If you are new to model railroading, also check out our "Beginner's Q&A" section. In there you will find lots of good info from many of our experienced members in response to questions from newbies. I have also written a series of files to help new people. They are all available in the post "Help a new modeler to get started" in the "Beginner's Q&A" section.

Have Fun;
Traction Fan


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## cfurnari (Aug 2, 2020)

old to the hobby, new to DCC...


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## DOOFUS (May 20, 2013)

DonR said:


> You MUST have insulated joiners in BOTH frog rails of an Electrofrog turnout. The frog and it's rails are
> electrically 'one'. Thus the 'polarity' changes when the points move. Without the insulated joiners
> you will have a short circuit in EITHER the straight or divert track when you throw the turnout.
> These problems are why many of us urge the use of the Insulfrog design. Unless you run small 4 wheel
> ...


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## DOOFUS (May 20, 2013)

Definitely use a Dremel. A razor saw works too. . Cut the short track you have inserted between the two turnouts. Better to waste a small section of track than damage an expensive turnout. Since you haven't powered the frog, the only way to get it powered is by the movable rails. This might be a source power loss in the future if the closure rails are not kept clean. Most experienced model railroaders would have short connections on the back side of the turnout between the closure rails and the continuing rails.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The Dremel also exerts a sideways force to the rail. I'd rather hold the rail with my hand while using the razor saw. I use both with a lot of cautions. The Dremel with a flexible shaft makes the nicest cut that I can easily glue some plastic into and file to conform to the rail. But the Razor saw makes a very fine cut that you could just fill with CA glue and have a nice hidden insulator. I do suggest that you some how mark where these insulated rails are, map pin until you putin scenery then a nice red bush. Its easy to forget these places!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Any cutting tool is going to exert force on the rail. By definition. The Dremel's force, however, isneasier to keep constant, acts on a smaller area, and is easier to maintain in a consistent direction. If you use a standard cutoff disc, the kerf of a dremel is actually thinner than a razor saws, and has no teeth to catch. You CAN use a razor saw, but a Dremel is much easier.


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