# Need Help Identifying a BEAST 2-8-8-4



## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

My dad in the 70's saw an ad in the back of a magazine for a DM&IR brass 2-8-8-4 and bought one. And that's it. Short of the box it came in, I have no documentation. From what I can tell there's no identifying markers or plates to tell me who the manufacturer is. Can someone help me out and tell me what I need to do to find out who made this? Or does someone know who made it? Thank you for all your help!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Beautiful loco but it would help to know
for certain what gauge it is. Also, is it
brass or plastic? Hard to
tell from the pics.

Don


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tenshodo, perhaps? See eBay listing 323108066967

TJ


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

I have an Akane, but that marks it into the 60's, 1970's, quick webcheck would make it Tenshodo thru Pacific Fast Mail. I have some old mags,may check sometime soon for it. 
Akane's box is gold, yours is red.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

DonR said:


> Beautiful loco but it would help to know
> for certain what gauge it is. Also, is it
> brass or plastic? Hard to
> tell from the pics.
> ...



Don,
It's HO, and it's brass. And I asked specifically when he ordered it and he says !983-1984, so I was in the wrong decade.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

tjcruiser said:


> Tenshodo, perhaps? See eBay listing 323108066967
> 
> TJ


TJ, 
It could be, the parts look a lot alike. But I'm 95% sure there's no plate or "Tenshodo" stamped underneath. But I'll check further when I'm home and have it in hand.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

dinwitty said:


> I have an Akane, but that marks it into the 60's, 1970's, quick webcheck would make it Tenshodo thru Pacific Fast Mail. I have some old mags,may check sometime soon for it.
> Akane's box is gold, yours is red.


I'd been told at train shows that the box is a pretty good identifying factor, but when I tell someone it's maroon they glaze over bewildered. 

It really sucks there's no identifying markers or model plates on this thing. It's gorgeous and runs pretty well. Could use a couple spring replacements but I'm afraid to drop anything into it if it's collectable.


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

It certainly looks like and Akane to me. I don't believe that box is original to the model. Compare with this off of Google: https://www.google.com/search?q=aka...hXllOAKHR6mCSwQ9QEIKzAA#imgrc=-GDL1nfJ256e4M:


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## tullnd (Jan 3, 2018)

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Akane-HO-BR...m-Locomotive-Tender-Painted-Box-/391926170032


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

Akane had a decent range of articulated models. Here's my list: C&O Allegheny 2-6-6-6, DM&IR 2-8-8-4, B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 (reputed to have a skinny boiler), Southern Pacific Cab-Forward AC-8/12, Souther Pacific AC-9 2-8-8-4, USRA 2-6-6-2, and the Little River 2-4-4-2. They produced a bunch of others as well, among them the B&O Q-4, USRA light and heavy 2-8-2's, USRA 0-6-0 and 0-8-0, USRA light and heavy 2-10-2's, and, IIRC both light and heavy 4-8-2's. They also did a B&O P-7 in as-built form, and an old-time 2-8-0 which they called a Ma and Pa, but it does not match the prototype.


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## daveh219 (Sep 16, 2012)

whoever manf. it...it looks great. Have a club member who does DM&IR in O scale


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

I have back issues of MR in those dates, PFM was doing ads on the back pages, they were doing Tenshodo made engines so your best bet is Tenshodo. The owner of PFM was a fighter pilot and during off times he would beat back and forth between the US and Japan where Tenshodo was located and bring back brass. I didnt see the engine yet, I'll look at other issues.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

There's nothing on this locomotive. No plate, no stamp, nothing. I'm tempted to take off the housing. Anyone know if there's anything "under the hood"? If that's not a normal place to hide a marker, I may not bother.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

daveh219 said:


> whoever manf. it...it looks great. Have a club member who does DM&IR in O scale


Dave, I'd love if you'd loop him/her in. We've got a DM&IR O an HO layout running side by side. It'd be interesting to hear what they have and how they've handled their layouts.


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

Virtually all the brass models I've seen with any ID plate have them on the exterior. I'd venture 90% of them had the ID on the driver retainer plate. Secondary location was the tender floor.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

ebtnut said:


> Virtually all the brass models I've seen with any ID plate have them on the exterior. I'd venture 90% of them had the ID on the driver retainer plate. Secondary location was the tender floor.


ebtnut,
I've looked. As far as I can tell there's no ID anywhere on either the tender or locomotive. My next option was to take off the shell hoping there were some identifying marks underneath. If you have a suggestion on where else to look I'm all ears. I'm surprised myself that this is as hard as it is to identify.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

So a new development. After REALLY looking at it, it seems to me that there was a plate at one point in time, but that plate no longer exists. The only visible stamp on it is a "Japan" on one of the trucks. The mystery continues.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I don't see where the cover for that gear was ever attached via a screw. One thing is very clear...it needs a tear-down and determined/thorough cleaning. Looks like a quality product, though.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

mesenteria said:


> I don't see where the cover for that gear was ever attached via a screw. One thing is very clear...it needs a tear-down and determined/thorough cleaning. Looks like a quality product, though.


Which cover and gear do you speak of mesenteria? And oh definitely, but I think that may be outside of my skill range. For shits and giggles I rebuilt an 0-4-0 just to get my feet wet (don't laugh! it's actually an AMAZING little engine, pulls better than the 2-10-4 and 2-8-8-4) and it was incredibly complicated in regard to the pistons and rods. I'd really hate to try and clean this up only to break it or lose parts. Not to mention I have no idea where I'd get said parts if I did lose or broke something. I know it needs a couple of springs, but I'm scared to even touch those.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

First photo with the pinion gear showing.....I don't think it should be uncovered like that since it's so easy for a slightly static-charged locomotive passing over dust, lint, hairs, and ground foam bits to pick them up and wrap them all around the works inside. But, I don't see where one was every attached by two tiny screw holes on either side of the plate orifice.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

mesenteria said:


> First photo with the pinion gear showing.....I don't think it should be uncovered like that since it's so easy for a slightly static-charged locomotive passing over dust, lint, hairs, and ground foam bits to pick them up and wrap them all around the works inside. But, I don't see where one was every attached by two tiny screw holes on either side of the plate orifice.


I have two older locos, one Mehano and one Triang / Hornby, that have exposed pinion gears like that. It seems to have been a fairly common practice.


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

Back in the '60's, which is when this model probably dates from, gearboxes were not de rigeur. Look at the old Mantua and Roundhouse models, with the worm mounted on the motor shaft riding directly on the worm gear on the axle. I suspect, if one removed the superstructure, you would find an open frame motor with rubber tube connector to the worm shaft. Said shaft held in bearings so the worm rides on the worm gear. Another rubber connector and shaft(s) connect to the same assembly on the front engine.


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## Chi_Twn_Luv (Jan 18, 2018)

Dad's pretty sure he picked this up in the 80's. There's a show this weekend, going to bring this with me and see what the pros think.


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## gnnpnut (Oct 19, 2016)

Chi_Twn_Luv said:


> So a new development. After REALLY looking at it, it seems to me that there was a plate at one point in time, but that plate no longer exists. The only visible stamp on it is a "Japan" on one of the trucks. The mystery continues.


Based on your photos, what you have is probably a GEM model. Tenshodo models all the way back to the original 1959 run had covers over the axle drive gear as part of the gear box assembly. 

I can't find any photos of an Akane model, but from what I remember of this model (I had one), it had a cover over the axle gear also. 

The box you have is not the original box. Also, this is not the Westside model, had one of those too, far more detailed than this model. 

Reference listing on Brasstrains.com:

https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic...ange-2-8-8-4-Unpainted-1964-Run-DOES-NOT-RUN-

Regards, 
Jerry


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