# Could be Time for a Change



## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok, so I really considering something pretty drastic, like a do over. My current layout shown below:










I do like it, sort of. I have learned a ton since joining and I really wish I would have joined before I built this layout. The biggest thing I've learned is about grades and transitions. I didn't do a good job with that on the current layout. 3 and 4% grades are pretty decent and now I wish I didn't have them at all. 

My initial mindset for this layout was to have a nice yard to put some cars in and lots and lots of scenery and not much else.

I think I have changed my mind since then. I want a more interactive layout. Industries and what not, and I think I want to go flat, no hills. So I designed this layout. Input is welcome. 

At the top is what I'm calling a staging area, room for lots of rolling stock. Then I have two loops so I can run at a minimum two trains. Then I have added a turntable and lot of spurs for industry.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I kind of like the old layout but I think that the new layout will be stunning just as well. I'm not sure if it is just the picture or actuall but I think investing in more cieling lighting over the layout will also make it look much better. Maybe even two different sets of lights one for daytime and one for nightime. I like the plans for the new layout and can't wait to see it completed.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

i like the new one better but i still would introduce several changes. roundhouse? aren't you running more of a modern equipment.

as far as lighting i couldn't agree more, you won't believe how nice things will get . you need at least two daylight fixtures. hint - craiglist. i got my fixtures for free, just needed to get the bulbs. unless you want to go for more elaborate lighting system


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok, I have secured new lighting, I now have some 2'x 4' fluorescent lighting but I have to put some plug ends on the cord before i can use them.

I am trying to model diesel engines from the '50's to the 70's. I wasn't going to put an actual roundhouse structure there, rather just leave the track sections there for the engines. Is that a little to old fashioned for the period I'm modeling? I could always change it a little, maybe one track in and one track out.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Railroads still use turntables and roundhouses to this day so I don't see why you can't back in the 50-70's where steam and diesel were still used together.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I second keeping the turntable/roundhouse. Heavily weather it and it will fit right in. Gives you great flexibility to turn engines around.


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

sstlaure said:


> I second keeping the turntable/roundhouse. Heavily weather it and it will fit right in. Gives you great flexibility to turn engines around.



Thanks for the input, what are your thoughts on the overall layout? 

I hoping the second time around I can put what I've learned into practice, maybe use some foam board and take my time to plan out where I will put roads and crossings, and get more flow with the layout. Right now it doesn't seem to have a purpose if that makes sense


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Makes total sense - that's why I'm completely changing what I have as well. 

I've always liked your current layout from a scenery perspective, and I think this is an improvement over that. Maybe think about how you would like to operate the layout (raw materials picked up and delivered to industries, goods picked up/dropped off, trains coming in from interchange, etc.)

I've become a big fan of shelf style layouts as they aren't as deep, allow the use of a full backdrop giving you more depth in the scene and are better able to support operations (but that's just me.) Could you possibly get permission from the committee to expand the length of the RR if you keep it not as deep along the walls? That may open up some possibilities for multiple towns/industries along the line? The 6' depth of your table really limits what you can do along the back wall as far as reach is concerned.


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

Back to the turntable with the roundhouse type look. I think it might be just slightly different than the first one.










I looked at changing the size of the layout buy there's not much else I can really do. Between the electrical box and the sump pump both of which I don't want to block it wouldn't give me much more room, only a couple feet. I was thinking of going with a U shaped layout if I could have extended it another 8' but I just won't fit. It's kinda tight with the 6' width right now but i have almost two feet between the table and the wall in the back so I have enough room to walk all the way around the layout.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It looks like you have the room down the end to add an L,then you could set up the turntable on the L and use that spot fr something else.


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

Big Ed you are right I do have the room right now but I am planning ahead and I know by the end of this year I be building some walls down there and It just so happens that I have to put a wall right there. I have to wall off the train room from the rest of the basement so we can put an entertainment room on the other side of the staircase.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Bman said:


> Big Ed you are right I do have the room right now but I am planning ahead and I know by the end of this year I be building some walls down there and It just so happens that I have to put a wall right there. I have to wall off the train room from the rest of the basement so we can put an entertainment room on the other side of the staircase.


Problem solved,
Make the entertainment room a train room.
Just think of the layout you could build with all the space.:thumbsup:

Put a deck outside to entertain. 

Then you could only entertain during the warm season and in the cold season work on your RR empire.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Bman, I dont mean to rain on your parade since everyone else likes your new layout, but you might reconsider the yard tracks at the back. You'll have a hell of a time sorting cars and it's going to be a pain if something derails back there. Unfortunately, I dont have any suggestions to change it right now. I guess if you had access to the back (like full walkaround or a hatch) it wouldnt be an issue. Other than that I love the roundhouse version. :thumbsup:













PS - I'm really sounding like a jerk with this one, but your US flag is backwards. Flip it so the union is on the left.


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

Sorry about the flag I will change that right away. I must have flipped it three or four times, I guess I drew a blank on which way it should be. My thoughts were if I rotated it counterclockwise It would be right side up, I meant no disrespect.

It's impossible to tell from all my pictures but I can walk all the way around the layout. I have almost two feet in the back between the wall and the table. I figured that would allow me easy access until I reached about 225 lbs. Which won't be that long with my wife's new hobby, cake decorating!!!

cabledawg you do some great design work on here, I value your opinion whatever is it, please keep your thoughts coming. :thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

If you ever hang it in your picture window it would be hung that way.
As per flag rules the people walking by would see it correctly. 
And you wouldn't get bullets shot at your house.

On your old layout the grades were 4 percent?
Can hardly notice that from your picture.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Bman said:


> Sorry about the flag I will change that right away. I must have flipped it three or four times, I guess I drew a blank on which way it should be. My thoughts were if I rotated it counterclockwise It would be right side up, I meant no disrespect.
> 
> It's impossible to tell from all my pictures but I can walk all the way around the layout. I have almost two feet in the back between the wall and the table. I figured that would allow me easy access until I reached about 225 lbs. Which won't be that long with my wife's new hobby, cake decorating!!!
> 
> cabledawg you do some great design work on here, I value your opinion whatever is it, please keep your thoughts coming. :thumbsup:


I know you didnt mean any disrespect, it's a common mistake  If you live in the US, I'd rather you have the US flag flown wrong, than to be flying the colors of another country besides ours. It irks me to no end to drive around US MILITARY BASE HOUSING and see Mexican flags, Puerto Rican flags, and recently various European flags.

Now that I look very carefully at your pictures, I can kinda tell you have room behind the layout to walk. I didnt notice it the first few times looking at your basement.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

cabledawg said:


> I know you didnt mean any disrespect, it's a common mistake  If you live in the US, I'd rather you have the US flag flown wrong, than to be flying the colors of another country besides ours. It irks me to no end to drive around US MILITARY BASE HOUSING and see Mexican flags, Puerto Rican flags, and recently various European flags.
> 
> Now that I look very carefully at your pictures, I can kinda tell you have room behind the layout to walk. I didnt notice it the first few times looking at your basement.



I learned that from my Dad when I was 16 on my learners permit.
I had my first car (50 Plymouth 2 door coupe) 3 speed on the column, flat head 6 banger $5 bucks,it needed a timing chain.:thumbsup:

I was going driving with him. He said I'm not getting in that car we might get shot!
I said huh?
He said you got the American flag decal in the back window backwards you dam fool!
Some would shoot you or run you off the road!

I promptly removed it.

Years later I hung an American flag in my picture window and faced it so I could see it the right way from inside.
It was only up for 2 hrs when a load banging noise came from the front door. 
It was an old guy telling me I had it backwards!:laugh:
I told him that I wanted to view it the right way from inside.
He said it was wrong and disrespectful to the flag!hwell:

As it was a cloth flag and I had another just like it I hung one on top of the other.

It was then right from the inside or out.:thumbsup:

Funny thing, whenever that old guy walked past he saluted it. 

Semper Fidelis I guess.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You gotta' watch us old codgers, we get testy at times.


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## OverTheHill (Mar 27, 2011)

Semper Fi


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Never was in the military (darn it ) but I've always been in love with the American flag.
Have one flying from a pillar on my front porch, on the wall in my attached garage, on two of the walls of my back garage, and a cloisonne trailer hitch cover flag on my TrailBlazer. 
Whoops, almost forgot the flag decals on my mailbox!
Love the flag :thumbsup: 
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I was in the Navy, the Marines worked for us.


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

When I was 18 I had a talk with the local military officer, I told him that I was legally blind in my left eye and I was just diagnosed with high blood pressure. He politely told me that I might want to "go down another road" in life. A few years later someone told me that I still probably could of joined the armed forces as they have a lot of different roles and even though I had some medical issues they would have allowed me to join. I never pursued it any farther, maybe I should have. 

Back to trains, I have cleaned, with soap and water every piece of track that I own. I individually hand scrubbed and dried them all, took me a while as some were pretty caked with ballast. Now off to lay down a small temporary layout so the boy and I can have some fun while working on the main one.

Flag situation is rectified, old glory is flying the correct way. God Bless the USA


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Hey, Bman,
You and I are kindred souls.....at the end of my senior year of HS, I also wanted to join the military, so I went down to the local draft board to enlist.
When he told me to cover my left eye and read the chart on the wall, I said: "what wall?" .......that was the end of my military career!
It was peace time, but they didn't need me, so I went to college instead and I guess it all worked out okie-dokie.
God bless the USA,
Bob


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, I was in the Navy, the Marines worked for us.


I see you had your grape knocked into bulkheads, a few to many times  At least you got, "we did your work for you" right. Good thing we are few in numbers, or we might not even need you guys to sail us around :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

anyway 

Can't wait to see the new layout being built Bman


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Well I've succeeded in causing a huge raucous.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

cabledawg said:


> Well I've succeeded in causing a huge raucous.



Heres the head Commander of United States.
Won't even salute the flag!
Refuses to have it on his jet too!


Semper Fi means nothing to him!:thumbsdown:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

We need the Eagle to take him away!


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

OMG! :bs: PLEASE don't get me started on this one   'cause it won't be pretty 
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm staying out of this one, suffice to say I have the same feelings.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

cabledawg said:


> Well I've succeeded in causing a huge raucous.




Just blame it on the dawg!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto from a stalwart conservative deep in the bowels of a liberal, leftist Rhode Island.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

big ed said:


> Heres the head Commander of United States.
> Won't even salute the flag!
> Refuses to have it on his jet too!
> 
> ...


That's a photoshop if I have ever seen one, while my feelings are the same though.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> That's a photoshop if I have ever seen one, while my feelings are the same though.


It's a pretty good one, even the shadows are right.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Not that I'm trying to stir up anymore trouble, but it isnt a photochop. That really happened during his campaign in 2008. He actually had comments about it as well, if I find the story, I'll post it up in Union Station.

Bman, I'm really sorry for derailing your thread.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I tended to believe it was real, simply because background details that are normally missed were there.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Pulleeeeeeeeeze......no more photos of Dumbo  My nausea is just about gone from the first one 
Bob


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Did you see the latest? A family photo with chimps!


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

A Google search will produce results of prior presidents committing similar gaffs. 

Air Force One has the American flag prominently displayed on the vertical stabilizer.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

raleets said:


> Pulleeeeeeeeeze......no more photos of Dumbo  My nausea is just about gone from the first one
> Bob


Obama goes on a State visit to Israel . While he is on a tour of Jerusalem, he has a fatal heart attack. 

The undertaker tells the US diplomats: "You can have him shipped home for $1 million or you can bury him here in the Holy Land for $100". 

The US diplomats go into a huddle and come back to the undertaker and tell him they want Obama flown home. 

The undertaker is puzzled and asks: 

"Why would you spend $1 million to get him home when it would be wonderful to be buried here in this religious country and you would 
only spend $100?". 

One diplomat replied: "More than 2000 years ago a man died here, was buried here, and just 3 days later he rose from the dead..... 

We simply can't take that risk"!


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Scott,
The first time I heard that story the mother-in-law on vacation was the dearly departed. :thumbsup: :laugh:
But.....I like your version MUCH better :appl: :appl::appl:
Bob


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## OverTheHill (Mar 27, 2011)

Scott,

This is the best news that I heard all day. 

Wonder what would happen if I posted this on facebook?

Overthehill .... really :laugh:


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

Keep it all coming, I'm having a lot of fun reading all this. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


It will be a little while before I need some more design help. I'm still not stuck on the design I started this thread with. I think I can do better, maybe not???. Right now I'm in the demolition mode!!!


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Ditto from a stalwart conservative deep in the bowels of a liberal, leftist Rhode Island.


Since we're participating in disclosure, tj...
I'll add my ditto to yours from a conservative Army Vietnam War Vet who is the President of our local Tea Party Patriots. 

...and the comunity I live in is 84% liberal Democrats. 

Greg


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Boy, a Tea Party guy in LA, that should be interesting! And you can't even bring your gun!


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

When you're surrounded by liberal sissies... you don't need a gun.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

choo choo said:


> When you're surrounded by liberal sissies... you don't need a gun.


Fair point. :laugh:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A tea party is for in Boston.

Yours would have to be a Pot party.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Choo Choo,
"liberal sissies"......  :lol_hitting::appl::appl:
Here in Michigan we're surrounded by UAW "give me more for nothing sissies" 
Uh, oh, I've started some sh#t now!
Bob


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

That's why I like where I live not very many liberals, And the if my neighbor sticks his nose in my business again I'm going to plant him kind of attitude!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Nobody wants to live in North Dakota..................


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

A whole bunch of folks aren't too thrilled about living in Michigan anymore either.  The economy is at the bottom of the tank, and we now have a new governor who wants to tax pensions 
Lots of senior cititzens are headin' south to escape the madness 
Bob


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## Bman (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok so I've done a lot of thinking lately and I have come up with a new plan for my layout. I am going to change it into a U. I am posting a couple of pics below because I want to get some opinions on the reach situation. I think the fist layout being 220" long may have some reach issues in the corners. So I can do some trimming with a circular saw to make it 196" long (2 feet less) That being said a little about me... I am 6'1" tall with a wingspan of 6'6" long, kinda Mike Phelps 'esque (I'm 1"shorter) without the ability to swim.
I can reach pretty darn far.
After looking at this some more I think the shorter one would be better. I just want to make at least two continuous (simultaneous operations) tracks of 22" Radius, another 18" radius continuous track for a total of 3 would be optional but cool. With a yard and a lot of industrial spurs.
Let me know what you think

220" long on the back end, I would have to put the long end against the wall because of room reasons. Each square is 1' x 1'









196" long









Thanks


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