# Super Pretzel Atlas 8x8



## Dirtytom

My first attempt. Bench work and wiring went fast now mired down trying to build kits and add more sidings. Also want to run a bayou along side road. I live on Alligator Bayou and trying to recreate same.

I used homasote on top of 1/2 inch plywood, seems I could cut the bayou out fairly easy. Just need to avoid wiring.

Really having fun with this new adventure.

DT


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## gator do 65

DT,
That is one nice starter set you got going there!
I'm doing my first layout also, 
And your right about the adventure... Lovin it!

#1 old layout 12' x 42"
#2,3 new layout 12' x 8' ( thanks to the wife!!!!! )


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## Dirtytom

Great pics---looks awesome. Have had Harley Davidson's since 1957 but at old age knees gave out and could not handle the big two wheelers--gave each son a Harley and now Harley house is "Train Depot"

DT


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## norgale

Both you guys have good layouts going. I'd love to have an 8x8 with walk around the outside. Take lots of pictures and lets see what your up to. Tom you could cut the homosote out down to the plywood for the bayou and put acryilic in there to look like water. Paint the bottom and sides of the "bayou" black or dark blue first to have depth to it. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Thanks, got side tracked today by opening the Campbell Kit 405. This kit is tough, messed up a few pieces, called Campbell and they are sending new pieces no charge--great customer service. The man was very nice and advised me I should have started with a easier one.

Still trying to figure out how to make a few sidings but the Pretzel makes it impossible to ture a Locomotive around.

Thanks for the replys

DT


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## Dirtytom

I have the Super Pretzel and the HO 26 Switching yard--want to come off right hand side of present layout and go to the yard--any ideas or suggstions?

DT


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## DonR

DT

Ain't it a sad day when you decide the Harley has to go. Really took the life
out of me for a while when I have up my Road King, one of the prettiest in
the bike night parking lot. That's when I came back to Modelling which I
really enjoy. But it's nothing like the feel as you lean that big Harley this
way, then that way, going through a downhill double S curve...wheeeeee...
It is so graceful it's almost like dancing. 

Anyway. Are you going to build the switching yard on the existing
table or expand it? From what I can see you sure would have to do a
lot of 'bending' the yard and then come up with short tracks if you
stuck to the table as is.

You are a crossing fan big time...4 on the pretzel and here's another
batch on this yard. I am too, but can't fit one in my layout as it is.

Don


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## Dirtytom

I have a 14 foot wall to the north of the layout and yesterday added a little benchwork to the layout to allow a few more industries.

I got my first Bike in 1957 while in High School. It is a FLHF Pan Shovel, still runs and gave it to youngest son. He lives in the same town and he'll ride it out so I can ride it thru the back roads. Gave my 2001 Screaming Eagle to Son in Law and the 2010 Screaming Eagle Ultra Classic to oldest son.

Great hearing from Harley lover..

DT


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## norgale

Don't have any crossings either but i had a Kawasaki 500 once. Tried to drive it one night drunk,gracefully fell over with it right in my driveway,went to bed,called a friend the next morning who said he wanted to buy it and by noon my one and only motorcycle was GONE.
Figured if I was that stupid I didn't need a bike. The end. Pete


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## DonR

Pete

I don't want to steal Dirty Tom's thread, but one of
my biker buds was telling about friends of his who
rode from one bar to the next. One was lagging
behind, then as they waited at the door, he rode
up, stopped, and just plain fell over...beer will do that.

Not long before I decided it was time to give up the Harley,
I rode up to a stop sign on a street I used often. And, for
reasons I have yet to figure out, just plain fell over. And
I had not even had the fun of one sip. Only time I
ever dropped that Harley.

Sorry, DT, here's your thread back.

Don


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## Dirtytom

hope I am not out of bounds, got feed up with Campbell kit so I left for camp, camp is 20 miles south of Houma La, about two miles from Gulf--boat is in lift and in 15 minutes was fishing--caught four nice reds and two big sheep head in less than an hour==go back to trains tomorrow if this against posting rlues just let me know

PS over 40 years on two wheels dropped it several times and two bad wrecks(when I was young)

DT


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## norgale

Oh them poor little fishies. I'll take the sheephead in a heartbeat. Nice pictures. Like the weir one but it looks to have an extra opening. . Pete


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## Big Ed

Your OK with the posting Tom.
It is your thread so you can post anything you want in it. :smokin:

If you had added the fish post in someone else's train thread then it might be considered the wrong thing to do unless the original poster was OK with it.


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## Dirtytom

Thanks, needed relief from Campbell kit...all most all the weirs were damaged by Katrina and Rita. State and Feds(Army Corps) spending $$$$$$$$$ building levee from Atchaflayia Basin to Mississippi River( you can Google Earth this massive undertaking) and did not repair the thousands of weirs...makes for more brackish water in swamps. Last year in same spot caught red, speckled trout and 5 pound bass all in one day.

In the last 25 years lost my camp three times and no insurance. This time built camp out of metal building and steel beams instead of creosote post. I raised my property three feet above where highest water in history recorded. The highest water ever on my property was from Hurricane Hugo. 

DT


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## wingnut163

i am 73 and i can not think off giving up my 2000 soft tail.
started riding in the navy 58, on a shipmates 1958 FLH tank shift, then went to1948 cushman.
ive dropped them a long the way but since i took the motor cycle safety foundation safety
course i have stayed with the shinny side up.


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## norgale

Tom do you have any pics of your camp? I love being out in the swamp or nearthe Gulf or any water for that matter. Just like to see where you go to unwind. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Have lots of pics but only have air card for internet and very spotty for attachments. Will send some when better internet. Very envious of wingnut but two bad knees and very heavy bikes..looked a used Deuce made offer but owner did not accept.

DT


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## Dirtytom

Beautiful yesterday, today 4 inches of rain since 3am. Bad start for Mardi Gras. Will try a few pics. The view due west from upper deck is typical swamp. (JR on Swamp People set traps out there, only accessible with air boat). From my camp it is 150 miles of swamp, bayous rivers. The first road you come to is in Avery Island(where they make Tabasco)

One pic should show the depth of slab we poured. My new camp designed to take sustained 150MPH wind, but nothing can stop water. So designed massive slab and 24 inch Schedule 40 I beams.

Camp is about 20 miles due south of Houma, La and as the crow fly's about four miles from Gulf of Mexico.

Going back to Train Depot later today.

DT


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## Big Ed

How about a sidecar for the scooter?

Nice camp, next time it gets flooded and you have to rebuild make it a floating camp.
Secure it good so it will just rise with the water and settle back down when the flood goes away. :thumbsup:


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## gator do 65

Had a 48 flathead in a 89 soft tail w/ 5 speed looked like a rigid rode like a dream! Broke my neck in 05 and no more riding! Darn!!


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## Dirtytom

During Katrina, it was the steel boat houses and shrimp boats that tore loose and destroyed anything in their path. Friend of mine had a 80x40 on steel barge. He moved it up the bayou close to Houma. After the storm, what was left of was found in middle of a subdivision about 10 miles from where he tied and spuded down. We actually made thru Katrina with major damage but the storm surge from Rita some 250 miles to the west finished us off.

DT


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## Big Ed

Dirtytom said:


> During Katrina, it was the steel boat houses and shrimp boats that tore loose and destroyed anything in their path. Friend of mine had a 80x40 on steel barge. He moved it up the bayou close to Houma. After the storm, what was left of was found in middle of a subdivision about 10 miles from where he tied and spuded down. We actually made thru Katrina with major damage but the storm surge from Rita some 250 miles to the west finished us off.
> 
> DT


Then just get a good insurance policy huh?


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## Dirtytom

For me, I self insure as had terrible problems with insurance companies telling you its water damage and not wind--so no coverage.. If i take a 10,000 deductible the annual premium thru State sponsored coverage.. They inspect put a value on the home or structure and it is a percentage...say it's valued at $150,000, $10,000 deductible could be up to 4% of value..After I lost a camp in 1992(Danny) valued at $135,000--did not get coverage as they claimed it was water not wind--Every year without pause put the premium in a bank--when I lost the camp to Danny--with deductible all most rebuilt the camp.

Then ----Katrina and Rita... rebuilt a much smaller camp but designed to take massive wind and water surge up to 15 feet. Since 2007 survived three hurricanes, one called Gustav was wind of 60 to 75 but 13 foot surge--minor damage to siding. Then couple years ago Hugo--wind 80, 10 surge no damage. Minor wind and water from Humberto...waiting on the next one..the pic show the downstair storm shutters and a full beer box and 500lb per day ice make..I'll hunker down and ride it out.


My friends and neighbors never look to the state for help, except for getting the bridges and roads open. I have a 20 KW generator that runs on natural gas and can run one month before shutting down due to low oil pressure, as it is the electricity that is out for weeks.



Sorry for the long rant..

DT


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## norgale

Nice camp Tom. Hell ,I'd live there instead of in town. Looks like a great place to be. Thanks for the pics. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Finally got Rig and pumping jacks built. The tanks, piping and platforms are scratch built. Will be inside a levee, this is circa 1940 to 1950.

DT


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## Sasha

I LOVE this layout! The crossings make it so interesting! - _*Sasha*_


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## Dirtytom

My latest attempt, Banta Stock Pens. Made lots of mistakes as the instructions for me were not very clear. Will try to layout pens next few days.

DT


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## Dirtytom

Finally got around to adding two branch lines. The Super Pretzel does not lend itself to switching so will have to figure out how to turn loco's around.

Hope I'm not boring anyone, as a newbie like suggestions and corrections.

DT


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## wingnut163

picture #1, you can build a small timber turn table to put at the end of one of the two sidings. it would only takes a small lift of the tracks to have it work.


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## Dirtytom

Thanks, will try to lay it out. Was going to put meat packing company there but I really like switching.

DT


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## wingnut163

like this;


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## Dirtytom

How wide is the area?

DT i


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## wingnut163

the whole wall shelf is 2'

the table is 9"


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## Dirtytom

Thanks, got side tracked with those little Woodland Scenes metal kits. Would like to meet the person that dreams these things up and gets a idiot like me to buy the D--- things?

DT


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## Dirtytom

Day away from Train, this is coming home from the east, name of canal is Falgout....caught a few Speckled trout

DT


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## norgale

Looks like a peaceful day on the bayou. Hope you had a great time. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Back to trains tomorrow but today a load of fish, after I cleaned them had over 55lbs of filets..come on down for cajun fish fry

DT


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## sibell

So this is where the old Harley guys end up, ha ha. As a man that turns 50 this year, I have been a riding motorcycles my whole life. Started on dirt bikes and worked my way up. I have Geezer Glide (street glide) at the moment and we take it every where. We purchased a toy hauler and travel a lot during the summer months. Seems that the priorities changed over the years, instead of riding from bar to bar, it's load up the bike and ride around and relax by a campfire with a guitar and ice cold beer


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## norgale

That's a nice mess of fish. How do you cook them in Cajun country?


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## Dirtytom

*Harley and Fish Fry*

I have a son 50....when I was 13 my pop got me a 51 Indian..Rode it thru high school and then got a deal on a 57 Pan Shovel. Have a Trike now but do not like riding it. Same as riding a lawn mower. 

Started rock climbing about 25 years ago and try to make Colorado every July for Rubicon Challenge in Ouray. This is jeep at Super Lift Off road in Hot Springs Ar. a lot easier on my old knees.

I make my own fish fry. Mix 1/2 corn flour with half yellow corn meal, seasoning and a little baking powder. I usually take the filets and cover with yellow mustard then dredge in fish fry. Have a commercial deep fry and can fry 5 lbs at a time at 350 degrees....

Come on down

DT


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## norgale

That really sounds great Tom. Wish I could make it. The rock climbing looks like fun. I used to love driving the beach and the sand dunes down here and up on Cape Cod before that. Not many rocks there but lots of woods and dunes to get crazy on. Now you go out and wash that Jeep right now. All that mud on the Poor Baby! 
Thanks for the recipe on the fish fry but what are the "seasonings"you use or is that your secret? Sounds like a super feast to me. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Black pepper, salt, Tony Chacheres, dash red pepper, gsrlic salt...real secret is hot oil and cook a littlt crispy

DT


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## norgale

Awwwwright! Got this all written down so as soon as I can get some fresh fish I can try it.
I appreciate the details Tom. Lots of people won't tell you what their recipes are in an detail. Hope you enjoy your cook out. Pete


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## Dirtytom

My last Campbell Kit--no mas

DT


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## Dirtytom

Finally got back to railroad. Latest additions is Grain Elevator, trees, little hill and my first ballast attempt? 

DT


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## norgale

Looking really nice Tom. The hill is a good way to break up the scenery so you don't see everything at the same time. Makes people look around a bit. I like the grain elevator and the track fits it well too. The trees look very real and there's lots of room for more buildings as well as landscaping. Keep the pictures coming. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Getting into hills, if I had more space would do more. The biker barn is open and the beer is cold.

DT


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## Dirtytom

*Problems*

My 0 6 0 does not run on the Super Pretzel? It hangs up on all the crossings and remote switches. Ran it both clockwise and clockwise. My little switcher runs fine. When the big loco hits a crossing it just stops and no power, I push it forward or backward and it will run till the next switch or crossing. Very frustrating and do not want to tear my track up and start over?

Have two the 060s, will diesel work better?

Thanks,

DT


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## norgale

Your probably loosing contact at the frog. Some are insulated and some are not. Others on here can tell you more than I can about this trouble. Pete


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## DonR

DT

You 0-6-0 is not getting power from all it's wheels.

Check out the wipers that collect power from them.
You may need to clean debris from the wipers or
need to adjust them to make better contact.

I'm not familiar with this loco so i don't know whether
it has power pickup on all wheels. If not you may need
to figure out how to add it. 

The longer plastic crossing diamonds and turnout frogs are shutting the
loco down because all wheels are not contacting live rails.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Bad day, tore up most of the track and put it back but 0 6 0 still won't run? Think I'll go fishing???

DT


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## norgale

Use a multimeter and see if there is power to the tracks. Check each piece of track and see if you have 12 volts all around. If you do then the problem is in the loco (dirty wheels,loose wire ect) and/or dirty track.
I have a meter that measures only 12 volt that I got as a freebee with a solar panel I bought. It can tell if there is power to anything on the RR up to 12 volts and is very handy to have when doing track and wiring. If a piece of track only shows 8 volts I know to check the joiners and tighten them up. Helps a lot. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Have power everywhere. My little 040 switcher runs good but will only pull two to three cars. Think the Super Pretzel more for diesel than steamers and lots os small radius. The 060 has problems going thru crossings?

Thanks for help

DT


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## Dirtytom

The 060 will not make the 30 degree crossings plus will not pull over five cars? The little machine just sits and spins. My EMB 800 pulls seven cars and makes pretzel with no problems.

Love the 060 as the sounds brings back old memories of the Missouri Pacific running thru Ville Platte, La.

The diesel has sound but not very loud? Still going forward, adding a 2x5 for industry and spurs.

DT


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## DonR

DT

Have you checked that you are getting power pick up on all
of your wheels? Even tho a shorty, if you have 6 wheel power
pickup the little guy ought to make it over a crossing. Don't
know if it was made with all wheel pickup, if not, you may be
able to add it.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Have power but the wheels are just too big for crossing. It stalls and jumps when it comes to a crossing.

Going steam.

DT


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## Dirtytom

*Question*

Started laying out my 4x2 extension and see I am going to have a problem with Peco turnouts? Want to use my existing DCC wiring but as I add a turnout I short out my track? Watched some real confusing "how to" videos and if I have to start cutting wires and soldering jumpers, Will rethink my expansion.

Any simple solutions?

Hope so

DT


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## DonR

Which Peco turnout are you using, Insulfrog or
Electrofrog?

Unless you have a reverse loop you should not
find a short using a Peco turnout. 

Either one is straight forward as far as DCC
wiring is concerned. 

The Peco Insulfrog turnouts are power routing.
When the turnout is set, for example, to the diverting
route, that route gets power, while it is shut off
to the straight route. If the drops to the diverting
route were some how reversed when the turnout is
set that way, there would be a short circuit. Recheck
the drops.

My guess is that is what is happening.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Don, thanks for the help. Quests I was hoping for same operation as my original layout. I had power on all tracks all the time. Is hire any way I can wire the new yard so that I have power on all tracks?

DT


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## Dirtytom

*Lighting*

Gave me fits but finally got lights. Not professional but as old tired marine doing my best? Stating an extension, trying to do a diagram so I can ask some more questions about wring.

DT


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## RUSTY Cuda

:thumbsup:Lookin good, I love the nite shots! :thumbsup:


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## DonR

Dirtytom said:


> Don, thanks for the help. Quests I was hoping for same operation as my original layout. I had power on all tracks all the time. Is hire any way I can wire the new yard so that I have power on all tracks?
> 
> DT


Yes.

Just install drops on the two rails leaving each turnout frog. Note that they
will be of opposite polarity tho. That way even tho the turnout is
power routing you'll have power on all tracks all the time.

If you think you might want to park a loco unpowered on any one yard track just
install an on/off switch in the drop before connecting it to the buss.

Don


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## Doc Holliday

Great job!


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## norgale

Yes the lighting does look very nice. I like the gas station best. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Really appreciate all comments. Enjoy working on scenery. Trying to add a yard to layout and have all Peco and wiring is long and tedious. Have to test each drop as polarity changes each switch?

DT


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## DonR

Dirtytom said:


> Really appreciate all comments. Enjoy working on scenery. Trying to add a yard to layout and have all Peco and wiring is long and tedious. Have to test each drop as polarity changes each switch?
> 
> DT



DT

What I meant was that the two rails leaving the frog are of opposite
polarity, thus the 2 new drops could not be tied together.

Believe me, tho, you'll be glad you have those Pecos. Derailing
is a thing of the past with them.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Does that mean that for every Peco electrofrog, I'll have 4 drops? So 17 turnouts 68 drops? Really confusing, may have lots of Peco to give away.

DT


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## Dirtytom

Just posting lots of brand new Peco for sale...make offer. Will post in for sale section
DT


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## norgale

Tom can't you modify the Pecos by soldering wires to certain spots so the frog will work? Seems like a big waste to have to sell these and buy new stuff. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Watched several videos and do not think I'm capable. Think I'll stick to Atlas. More than just welding, you cut solder and have to wire under neath back to switch? 

Do you need them?

DT


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## norgale

No not really. I have a ton of turnouts but their all Atlas. It's true about the Atlas snap switch isn't all that good but if you get #6 or #8 Atlas turnouts you'll have far less trouble.
Actually most of my TO's are the regular #4 and the only time I have any trouble with them is backing through to the siding. I just try to avoid doing that as much as possible. Also the gauge of your wheels, type of coupler, weight of the car, body mount or truck mount couplers and metal wheels or plastic all play a part in these problems. Nice thing is there is no problem with wiring at all. Pete


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## wingnut163

see your add.


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## Dirtytom

Would swap the Electro frog for insulfrog ?

DT


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## norgale

One other thing Tom, if you go to Atlas #6 and #8 T.O.'s remember that they are longer than the regular #4 TO. You'll have to adjust your adjoining track to accommodate them. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Thanks Pete, taking some time off and going fishing.

DT


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## Dirtytom

will post this on for sale forum


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## norgale

Send the Pecos back and get your money back or swap for Atlas or whatever.? Pete


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## Dirtytom

Found some PECO insufrog in all my stuff, laid it out ran tow power leads and switcher ran over all turnouts (Peco web site calls them switches) Still have the 20 electrofrogs for sale or trade?

DT


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## Dirtytom

Thru "Eminent Domain" got more land for the train so want to come off west and north end and go bayou and 14x2 wall industry and round house. Attached is a sketch..do I have a reverse loop?

Thanks

DT


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## Dirtytom

Latest, trying to add coal mountain with creek running under track? This newbie having problems.

DT


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## DonR

Dirtytom said:


> Thru "Eminent Domain" got more land for the train so want to come off west and north end and go bayou and 14x2 wall industry and round house. Attached is a sketch..do I have a reverse loop?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> DT


I tried to follow a loco around that new section. It does not
look to be a reverse loop. The loco would be going the same
direction If you ran it off to the left in the top, then backed
it down to where it can then reenter the main.

You have a reverse 'loop' anytime a locomotive can be turned
around to go the opposite direction on the same track. 

If it were a reverse loop, simply isolating the straight track
connecting the upper and lower turnouts and using a reverse
controller to feed it.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Thanks, got side tracked with my coal mountain as I bought a BTS kit and is really complicated. The owners are very nice and have sent me more parts as I am constantly ruining one of the very fragile pieces and they break very very easy? 

Might have to order the Walters coal mine. Did try the Walters Interstate Fuel kit. Wound up just piping without those little bitty pieces.

DT


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## norgale

That Interstate Fuel kit is one of the best kits around. Lots of buildings and tanks and you can place the pieces around wherever you want. Make a yard for the tankers to fill up and bring a track into the area for delivering more fuel and oil ect. Lots of possibilities with that kit. Pete


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## Dirtytom

After fighting BTS Coal Creek kit for three weeks, finally got my culvert in. Going to start coal mountain tomorrow.

DT


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## Dirtytom

*Coal Mountain*

Started my coal mountain. Trying to figure out how to paint? Any suggestions appreciated.

DT


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## mackdonn

Wow.....the things you have accomplished in such a short time period has me in awe!!!! Very nice layout......you have motivated me to get on the ball......I've been slacking lately!!!!


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## norgale

Shouldn't a coal mountain be black????


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## Dirtytom

Took my jeep to West Virginia last year and saw lots of "coal Mountians", seem the mountains were green with trees and a shaft going down? From old pictures on internet, the shaft would go straight in and turn several directions.

Have a coal pit, but that comes last, this has been exhausting. So want to get on to Cajun fishing village.

Thanks for input

DT


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## Dirtytom

The mountain from the west.

DT


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## Dirtytom

Took Pete's advice and made the east side of mountain look like coal? Started trying to figure out how to go west of mountain and install a three rail yard.

DT


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## mackdonn

I was with you the first time. I've never seen a mountain that was coal look like coal because it's under hundreds of feet of dirt and ground cover. But hey, to each his own.....it's YOUR layout and if it makes you happy, I'm happy. I'm still amazed at the speed you are getting things done. I did turn mine on and ran a few trains yesterday....LOL


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## Dirtytom

You have pictures of your layout?

DT


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## mackdonn

Yep they are posted on my profile page.....about a year old....I've done some other things since then but track work is still basically the same........


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## norgale

If all coal is hundreds of feet down in the arth how did anyone find the first coal? Same way they found oil. On top of the ground. Eventually man figured out how to find the stuff underground. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Good job..see you are a youngster..I don't work too old to play golf..just fish and started the layout End of Febuary. ...glad to meet you and stay in touch

DT


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## mackdonn

Norgale, where have you seen an "actual" coal mountain or a picture of an "actual" coal mountain that was black other than around the shafts where it was mined? I'm just sayin'....mountains usually look like the geographic terrain regardless of whats under them. :dunno:


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## Dirtytom

This is the best I could do? Now to wire new addition.

DT


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## Dirtytom

One more pic


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## norgale

mackdonn said:


> Norgale, where have you seen an "actual" coal mountain or a picture of an "actual" coal mountain that was black other than around the shafts where it was mined? I'm just sayin'....mountains usually look like the geographic terrain regardless of whats under them. :dunno:


I have never seen a coal mountain or a coal mine but a coal mountain could have one side area exposed where the dirt had washed off over the years after a catastrophic earthquake pushed the mountain up. Then a tornado came along and twisted all the trees off at the ground and then came a hurricane dropping tons of rain on the mountain washing all the dirt off and all of a sudden there was a whole huge cliff of pure black coal, but nobody knew what the black stuff was.
Then one day along comes Moog and his old lady Squig and his son Flog and his daughter Loosie. They are looking for a Holiday Inn for the night but all they could find was a slight outcropping of this black rock to shelter under. Moog told Flog to get a fire going and told Squig and Loosie to start getting supper ready while he checked for varmints around the campsite.
Flog gathered up some wood and kindling and soon had a nice cook fire going and the women had the deer haunch unwrapped from the beaver fur it was kept in and sizzling on a stick over the fire. By the time they had all eaten it was getting dark so they bedded down on their fur skins to sleep for the night leaving the fire low for some heat and protection from prowling animals and inspectors from Washington.
In the morning as they had their breakfast of delicious deer meat over the rekindled fire Moog noticed a red glow coming from the base of the fire. After removing all the wood and pieces from the fire area he saw that the rock under the fire was burning with a cherry red glow. Then he scraped the leaves and dirt away from the glow and found a whole big boulder that was being consumed by the fire. Since it was coming on to winter Moog decided that he would stay there and see what the fire did to the rock and meantime he and the family would have a constant cooking fire and plenty of heat to keep warm. It didn't take long for Moog to figure out that the black rock would burn and could be controlled for heat and cooking so the little family decided to stay right there and that's how coal was discovered and Moogantown, West Virginia was founded.
Coal never would have been discovered if Moog had had to dig for it 'cause he didn't know it was there. See??? Pete :appl::appl::smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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## Dirtytom

Sun coming up on Coal Mountain.

DT


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## Fire21

Norgale, probably most likely lightening struck an exposed coal seam and set it afire. Moog and his family happened by and found the deer that the lightening had also struck just sizzling away, smelling like heaven. They decided that hot cooked meat was better than warm freshly-slain meat. They dug into the burning hill and learned that black rock burns, and in the process uncovered an oil pool, which also burned. Hence four industries were born: fast food, coal mining, and oil pumping, and railroads to haul them both!! See?? :bs:


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## norgale

Now that looks great Tom. That's a good looking scene. Pete


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## mackdonn

norgale said:


> I have never seen a coal mountain or a coal mine but a coal mountain could have one side area exposed where the dirt had washed off over the years after a catastrophic earthquake pushed the mountain up. Then a tornado came along and twisted all the trees off at the ground and then came a hurricane dropping tons of rain on the mountain washing all the dirt off and all of a sudden there was a whole huge cliff of pure black coal, but nobody knew what the black stuff was.
> Then one day along comes Moog and his old lady Squig and his son Flog and his daughter Loosie. They are looking for a Holiday Inn for the night but all they could find was a slight outcropping of this black rock to shelter under. Moog told Flog to get a fire going and told Squig and Loosie to start getting supper ready while he checked for varmints around the campsite.
> Flog gathered up some wood and kindling and soon had a nice cook fire going and the women had the deer haunch unwrapped from the beaver fur it was kept in and sizzling on a stick over the fire. By the time they had all eaten it was getting dark so they bedded down on their fur skins to sleep for the night leaving the fire low for some heat and protection from prowling animals and inspectors from Washington.
> In the morning as they had their breakfast of delicious deer meat over the rekindled fire Moog noticed a red glow coming from the base of the fire. After removing all the wood and pieces from the fire area he saw that the rock under the fire was burning with a cherry red glow. Then he scraped the leaves and dirt away from the glow and found a whole big boulder that was being consumed by the fire. Since it was coming on to winter Moog decided that he would stay there and see what the fire did to the rock and meantime he and the family would have a constant cooking fire and plenty of heat to keep warm. It didn't take long for Moog to figure out that the black rock would burn and could be controlled for heat and cooking so the little family decided to stay right there and that's how coal was discovered and Moogantown, West Virginia was founded.
> Coal never would have been discovered if Moog had had to dig for it 'cause he didn't know it was there. See??? Pete :appl::appl::smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


:laugh::laugh::laugh::smilie_daumenpos::appl:


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## norgale

Fire21 you forgot roadkill. Ha! pete


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## Dirtytom

Working on Cajun Fishing village. The town of Lafitte(named after the pirate) have three more shrimp boats, oyster boat, small tug, two more wharf kits, swing bridge and four feet(close to500 ft HO scale)of bulkhead.
DT


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## Dirtytom

Worked late and got my new rail in and wired. Will have a small yard, the Peco three way is fun trying to figure it out. Going fishing tomorrow and God willing will wire 8 switches(turnouts) Monday.

Good railroading to all

DT


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## norgale

Looks great Tom, I like the fishing village a lot. You sure are making progress with this setup. Pete


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## DonR

DT

I Have a whole bunch of Peco turnouts, but no three way. I see
two 'throw' bars on yours. Does it take 2 motors to make it work?

Don


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## Dirtytom

Yes, it is a lot of fun. Do you use electro or insul frogs?

DT


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## Dirtytom

DonR,,,have you seen this Peco, I am trying to work it in. If good Lord willing and creek don't dry, going to add a 2'x14' extension with round house and will use this X crossing in the new industrial, train repair yards.

DT


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## DonR

Dirtytom said:


> DonR,,,have you seen this Peco, I am trying to work it in. If good Lord willing and creek don't dry, going to add a 2'x14' extension with round house and will use this X crossing in the new industrial, train repair yards.
> 
> DT


DT

I had an Atlas version of this turnout for my N scale
layout back in the 60s. The proper name for it
has escaped from my tattered and torn brain. One
of the guys will remind us. You see a lot of these
in large rail yards.

It, also needs two motors it seems. I haven't actually had
either the 3 way or this Peco turnout in my hands but I have
seen them in pics and note that both have 2 throw bars,
thus need 2 motors.

I assume the instructions from Peco shows you how to
wire the motors for simple operation. I would be curious
to see them. Can you scan or take a pick of their wiring
diagrams and post them?

I use only the Insulfrog Pecos. They're much less of
a wiring problem than the Electrofrogs. Because of
the power routing, though, you may have to add some drops
on the 'frog' rails to always have power on the rails. I accidentally
omitted this on one of my diverting tracks to good advantage. If a train
approaches the turnout that is set against it, the dead track
stops the train before it derails on the turnout. 
It starts right up when you throw the turnout for it.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Got the turnouts in that departs mainline. Decided to install couple of tracks for staging locomotives. The lines will go over a swing bridge that crosses the Baratarria Waterway to the Cajun fishing town of Lafitte.

This project will take a while as the fishing is excellent.

DT


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## Dirtytom

Weatherbea's Seafood Canning Company. Once again had a bunch of extra parts. This kit has a long wharf with loading and unloading arms. Had a lot of fun trying to paint.

DT


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## Dirtytom

Wired 10 Peco turnouts. They work some times and then quit. Tried without CDU and turnout made loud popping noise, so rewired CDU.

Still the same, flip switch and nothing. Manually flip, and voila the thing would work. Think I am going to go manual switches, enough to make you crazy? I used the PL 11 motor, Pl 50 console, PL21 switch and Peco CDU. They work one minute, next nothing. Had a extra CDU, changed it out and same thing. 


Anybody else have this problem?.

Thanks,

DT


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## DonR

DT


Sounds like you've got an electrical intermittency.

Check your solder joints on the Peco switch motors. Peco must use
an odd alloy for the tabs where you solder your wires. I have
had several 'cold' solder joints on them. 

I have yet to have any other failure with any of my
20 or so Peco Insulfrogs.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Don do you use the CDU? It is really weird, works one time and then will not. Traced all wires, took them out and made sure turnout was working rite. Then same thing?

DT


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## DonR

No Tom

I built my own CDU from a circuit in a Model Railroader electronics book.

It is the fast recharge type, so that you can immediately throw 
a second turnout.

Further, it has enuf power to throw 5 Peco turnouts at the same time
as I do in my yard ladder tracks. You push one button, and 4 or 5
turnouts give you a clear route by using a diode matrix.

It may be that your CDU is not recharging fast enuf. 
Another thought, what voltage are you feeding to the CDU?
I'm using a door bell transformer and that may be 16 to 18
volts.

But, as I mentioned in earlier post, have you checked the
solder joints on those Peco motor tabs. They have given me fits
and I've been soldering since just after WWII.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Don, you ever travel to South La ? Too old to learn all that stuff, but you could show me?

Thanks for your input,

DT


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## DonR

Tom

I'm 84. But then I've played around with electronics way back in
high school days. When I would be absent from class the teacher
would ask about me and one of the students would say I saw him going down
the hall with a soldering iron. That was all it took. She knew I was excused
by the principle.

Been in S. Louisiana a number of times but no travel plans in
the works now.

However, I'd be glad to help you with this stuff. I really enjoy doing it.

The 'diode matrix' is not a complicated system at all. Think of a button
in each yard track. A wire from that button goes to it's turnout, and
to each other turnout in the path to exit the yard. You push that button
and all turnouts switch. Now, of course, you can't just use a wire. There
would be a 'back fire' from the other buttons. So instead of an actual
wire you use a tiny little diode. It lets current go in one direction only and
eliminates the backfire. You get a packet of them for 3 or 4 $ at
Radio Shack. Since the CDU sends out DC current this system works.
It would not work using the AC accessories terminals unless it is
rectified to DC, as the CDU does.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Finally started last phase to the pretzel. Adding the 2x12 foot extension. Lots of switching, staging areas, some industry and a roundhouse. Will be working on this for the next year as it ties in to the pretzel after it crosses the Barataria Bayou. Will be lots of work but lots of fun. :smilie_daumenpos:

DT


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## norgale

Good to have you back Tom. Hope the summer was good for you. I see that you are getting into the garage area some more. Is the car staying outside now? Looking good bro. Pete

Shoot us a picture of how this addition will hook to the rest of the layout.


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## DonR

The little I see of it I can tell that is going to be an interesting yard. I always
like using a crossing as you have. Unfortunately, I couldn't work one into
my layout.

Let me know if you want to go ahead with a diode matrix system for your
yard turnouts. I'd enjoy drawing it out for you but I would need the
completed yard layout.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Thanks Don, have five switches one wye and a 30 degree crossing to figure out. I'll keep you posted and when I know the finished product will draw it up and post final layout.

Stay safe

DT


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## Dirtytom

Pete, my garage is behind the house. This was my old Harley House and workout area. Makes it nice as have a full bathroom and big work bench. Four years ago had five Harley's including the 51 Indian my dad bought after it was dropped. We rebuilt and I rode thru HS and college. When I graduated from college and did my active duty, Dad sold it but as soon as I recovered, I bought it back. Gave my sons each a bike and the grandson that lives next door, he got the Indian.

Always loved trains and I started in Febuary of this year. Mom and I had a great time in Colorado, took a few kits with me and worked on them a bit, but spent most of my time keeping.

Thanks, and you stay safe.

DT


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## Featherbedder

DT, did you get your problem with the Peco switch motors solved yet? I found that the alignment of the motor is pretty critical. It needs to be level with the arm travel and mounted solid. I had one motor that gave me trouble until I noticed it was not mounted down solid. Hope this helps if you are still having problems


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## Dirtytom

Yes, the engines have to be flat and aligned. They are great turnouts and if installed correctly, much less operation problems than Atlas and lot easier to wire.

DT


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## Dirtytom

Got stumped on the track installation so great grandson and I did some back drops for wall. Grandson painted the clouds. For 5 think he did a great job. This the the Super Pretzel facing North.

DT


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## DonR

They sure look good, a lot better than the store bought ones
I had. Finally took 'em down.

Don


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## Dirtytom

This is turning out to be the most difficult undertaking to date. Stated over several times but not giving up?:dunno:

DT


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## norgale

Looks great to me. Your layout is bigger than I remember. How about some videos with the trains running? Pete


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## Dirtytom

Tried to upload a video but says file too big? Has anyone ever built a inner harbor? Would love some pictures of members bulkheads and wharfs.

Thanks

DT


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## norgale

Ya tom you have to upload it on Youtube or Photobucket first and then bring it to the forum.


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## Dirtytom

Thanks Pete, how have you been? You working on the train? The layout has doubled, but being a typical koonass, I work on one thing, get stumped and move to another item. My latest extension has 17 Atlas turnouts and 10 Peco's. Made my control panel, it will not meet DonR's work but it is the best these old hands can handle.

Have knee surgery Monday and going be limited for couple of weeks.

Stay safe,

DT


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## Magic

Tom good luck with the knee surgery. 

Magic


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## norgale

"Old *******", Ha! I haven't heard that term in a long time. We have a few of them around here.
How do you like the Peco turnouts compared with the Atlas? Everybody says the Peco's are great but I've never had any of them.
Working on the BGC now that it's cooled down some. Still gets up to 80 everyday but that's better than 110 in the shed. Been wiring up tracks and turnouts the old block way and it's a bummer sometimes but I'm getting there. Started working on couplers and wheel sets last night and got two locos couplers done. Atlas comes with Accurail cpls and I'm changing everything to Kaadee. Cars get KD couplers and metal wheels from Intermountain. They really run well with the metal wheels.
Yes, good luck with the knee surgery Tom. That will slow you down a bit. I have quite a few neighbors who have had that operation and there isn't one that regrets having done it. My knees have really gone down the tube since it started getting cooler here and I'm taking glucosamine and Aleve for them. That works pretty well but it looks like I'll be having the same operation pretty soon myself. A friend had both done at the same time this past summer and she seems happy with the results. Hope it all goes well for you and remind the doc which knee to do. Ha! In my case it wouldn't matter. Pete


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## Dirtytom

Thanks, wife has been on me for past two years to get the replacement. Knee now is so bad need cane to get around.

When I started I went to trian shows and just went crazy buying stuff. Bought the Atlas Super Pretzel from a vendor and it was all inclusive. Purchased 30 or so PECO's and about 9 of them were electrofrog and those are impossible for me to use as it takes extensive wiring.

I will post a picture in a couple of weeks of all the things I bought and can not use. Look over the items and if you see something you could use pm me.

Going to start the water for Baratarria Bay today? See how it goes.

Again thanks,

DT


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## Dirtytom

Long day working on the railroad/// As soon as I get on my feet, going to finish all the turnouts?

DT


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## norgale

That's a really nice layout there Tom. I like the harbor walls. They look very old like those in Europe that have been in place for a thousand years. Built out of stones instead of poured concrete slabs or sheet piling. Looks very nice. That last picture is great. Lots of work in that scene.
Now where the heck is Dirty Tom's Shrimp and Gumbo Parlor?


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## Dirtytom

Finally can cross the bridge and get to new extension. Now to wire 30 turnouts?


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## norgale

Nice bridge Tom. Is it a kit or scratch built? You gettin' out in the swamp much this winter?


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## Dirtytom

Pete, The bridge is a Walters Kit. I was way back in the swamps today, no alligators rite now as they are hiding from the cold. A alligator hunter got a 12'4" 550lb rite across from my camp. Think the gator was so fat as I feed him several left wing ding bats. I caught mess of black bass today and tomorrow going to chase the specs. My grandson is farming crawfish and they are getting bigger everyday......next week having first crawfish boil.

Had knee surgery and is taking a while to get my hitch back. Still wearing brace and I hope it gets better.

I added a 14x2 plus swamp fishing village and have had one hell of a time trying to get wiring straight. I was stupid and wired my new track before tying in original layout. Blew several Peco turnouts???

With the help of NCE think I got it figured out...

Hope you are doing well and stay safe

DT


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## Dirtytom

Final touch on Barb's Marina. For my limited modeling skills, the harbor and Marina bulidings been very challenging.

DT


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## wvgca

looks good, i like the trailer in front ..


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## norgale

Yes it does look great. I'd like to live in that trailer.


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## Dirtytom

Small update, after fighting the extension and waterfront put some rolling stock on layout. Like the Walters Cars the best. Have Inter Mountain, Athern, Con Car, Rapido, Atlas couple more. seems they are all built in China.

DT


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## norgale

Good pics Tom. Keep 'em coming.


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## Dirtytom

*Inter Mountain*

All of my Inter Mountain Cars had the Hose on couplers almost straight and had to bend all of them so they would not hit track. They have great detail, nice trucks and have some weight to them.

Couple of pics. I like the bridge over the Barataia Bayou and I installed 10 lights, just have to wire them up?

DT


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## norgale

That really looks great Tom. I like the stone wall and the water in the harbor and the bridge is super. Did you install the guide rails on the track going across the bridge? Good job there too if you did.


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## Dirtytom

The track is from Walters. It is made to match the bridge. Trains make a great noise going over the rail.

Thanks Pete, took several tires to get the water to where it looks real. Getting lots of rain so been helping grandson(properly getting in his way)! Get back to fishing next week.

Stay safe,

DT


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## norgale

Kids need the wisdom of the Grandparents to do things right. Keep in the way as much as you can.


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## Dirtytom

Started Saturday wiring 17 Atlas, 9 Peco's and 9 lights. Got some lights on Lafite. The Entrance to harbor is red right return and blinking red light.

Heat shrink-ed the switches but most of the lights have a diode and does not like heat. took some time and effort but connected with electrician tape. the red lights had a capacitor for blinking mode. Also added lights to coaling tower.

have 8 lights to add to yard and round house.

DT


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## Dirtytom

few more pics


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## RUSTY Cuda

:thumbsup: love the night shots! :thumbsup:


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## norgale

Damn Tom! Your lighting looks super. I really like the harbor scene and the town area. Very well done. The venetian blinds in one pic looks like a multistory office building. Pete


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## Magic

Looking great Tom. :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:
The lights reflecting off the water is super. 
It just keeps getting better and better. :appl: :appl: :appl:

Magic


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## DonR

Very impressive Tom. I can almost hear water lapping agains
the pilings.

Don


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## Dirtytom

Thanks all, now to get the 2 6 2 to run on new section. 
have few gaps in rails and my GP900 and my two GE44's run great. Tried soldering on old piece of track but need more practice.

Again thanks for the words of encouragement.



DT


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## Dirtytom

Finished laying track on expansion. All locos run great and now on to installing round house. Decided to add pipelines and additional processing equipment to refinery. Had lots of round plastic from scraps and made the piping.

Going to add addtional frac tower, high pressure separator, Amine Tower and gas scrubber. 

DT


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## norgale

Looking good there Tom. You sure dickied up those tanks a lot. You been hanging around those fracking towers too much. ha! I have that same Cornerstone Interstate Oil company model.
You should look up the new Shell towers up in Canada at the sand oil plants. It's huge. I saw it on the engineering channel on Youtube.
You know, for an old Bayou Boy you sure do good work.
.


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## 400E Blue Comet

gator do 65 said:


> DT,
> That is one nice starter set you got going there!
> I'm doing my first layout also,
> And your right about the adventure... Lovin it!
> 
> #1 old layout 12' x 42"
> #2,3 new layout 12' x 8' ( thanks to the wife!!!!! )


Oh man those and this both look like so much more than a starter set... I'm used to ovals of track...


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## Dirtytom

My layout is 12x4, a 2x2 1/2 waterfront and a 2x12 wall for industries and round house.

Thanks

DT


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## Dirtytom

100MMCFD Gas Processing Facility.

DT


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## sjm9911

Very nice! I wish I could do that!


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## Dirtytom

Pictures of how the layout looked finished? Would do a lot of things different and my favorite is the Oil and Gas unit.

DT


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## DonR

Tom

You've got a bunch of guys slobbering in envy of your layout.

Great work. Lots of running as well as switching. Beautiful
scenic efforts. Very interesting main line. What more could
a guy ask?

Don


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## norgale

I love it Tom. Really an interesting layout with lots of action possibilities. You need an interlocking tower where the tracks cross at 90 degrees so two trains don't collide. Pete


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## Magic

Looking very good Tom. Great fun to run I'll bet, lots of interesting things to do.

Magic


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## Dirtytom

Been sick past few months but got to the train house today and ran all the engines did some switching and got the coal mine up and running to piss off Obumer.

DT


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## Lemonhawk

Don't let the EPA see that oil refinery, its too realistic, and they will make you clean it up so does not contaminate your wharf! Great job on the small town too. It all looks like you really enjoy working on it,great to keep busy!


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## norgale

Glad your feeling better Tom. Lousy time of year to not feel well. The picture is super. Good job on the building and details.


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## Dirtytom

Thanks all, before I got sick was planning on redoing my industrial area and round house. Now just adding small items and getting turnouts working better. The Pecos need to be greased now and then.

All have a great day and be safe.

DT


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## stewjrfan

DT I am in the process of building the Superpretzel layout i currently have the benchwork complete. My question is was there any problems you had while laying your track that i need to watch for or did it layout smoothly with no hitches? Thanks


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## Dirtytom

Really straight forward and easy to follow instructions. Just layout the track before you fasten it down, hook up electrical and run a loco pulling a couple of cars to check for glitches.

I have trouble with bigger steam engines but bought early diesel's and love the 70EMD's. My passenger train is pulled by a 2-6-2 and makes it around without any hitches. Went DCC and love it. Great grand kids love the sounds.

Please stay in touch and post pictures.

Good luck

DT


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## jlc41

Tom, I started from post 1 and was continually amazed by your modeling skills. Great layout and pictures. Am just getting into this hobby and I will use your layout for ideas. Thanks a lot for posting, and as you say stay safe.
Joe


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## stewjrfan

Ok thanks for the input. I also am going dcc and made the bench work to 9x9. I also plan on laying down 1/2 or 3/4 foam board. Thanks again DT


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## norgale

Lookin' good stewjrfan. How wide is each leg? Maybe somebody would tell me why you use foam over the table top? It has to be a pain to nail down the track and if you glue how do you make a change if you want to? I like to glue the cork roadbed to the plywood and then nail the track. Ir's easy to pull the nails and scrape the roadbed off with a putty knife and reuse it all. Pete


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## CTValleyRR

There are several reasons you might use foam (by which we mean rigid extruded foam insulating boards). Sound deadening is one. Another is to allow you to easily make terrain features below the level of the track without cutting holes in your table top.

If you insist on nailing your track, then foam is not the right layout surface for you. However, you overestimate the difficulty of removing track and roadbed laid down with a light adhesive. Using a very thin layer of adhesive latex caulk to fasten down track and roadbed gives you 20-30 minutes working time to adjust things, and both are easily separated with a putty knife (probably even faster than you can pull nails out) if you want to make changes later.


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## stewjrfan

I will attach it down with caulk adhesive and to use it for sound deadening and possible sculpting.


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## santafealltheway

norgale said:


> Lookin' good stewjrfan. How wide is each leg? Maybe somebody would tell me why you use foam over the table top? It has to be a pain to nail down the track and if you glue how do you make a change if you want to? I like to glue the cork roadbed to the plywood and then nail the track. Ir's easy to pull the nails and scrape the roadbed off with a putty knife and reuse it all. Pete


Just wanted to share, i HATED having foam as a base on my first layout.

All the foam was ripped up, and thrown away. everything i do from now on will be cork on wood.

some will say it not having foam makes it "too hard" to install some things...

Is drilling a hole really that hard?


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## CTValleyRR

Obviously, everyone has materials and techniques that they prefer, and there is no "one best way" to build a layout.

We're not suggesting, though, that drilling a hole is hard (you still have to drill them in foam, especially if it's covered with plaster or Sculptamold). What is EASIER with foam, is putting terrain relief (ditches, lakes, streams, etc.) below the level of your tracks. For me, it is much simpler to cut out an area of foam than to take a jigsaw to my table top and either cut out the track profile and raise it on cleats and risers, or cut out the terrain features and drop them below the level of the table top.

Foam doesn't hold things as tightly as wood, though. Track nails and foam is an exercise in futility, and things like trees, utility poles, fences, etc. may pull out of foam more easily than wood if mishandled.

I would be curious to know what caused your bad experience with foam.


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