# Court Grants Lionel Bankruptcy Extension



## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

WASHINGTON -- Model-train maker Lionel has been granted a fourth extension in its bankruptcy case that allows it time to solve a years-old dispute over trade secrets.

The bankruptcy judge said Lionel, which is based in Macomb County's Chesterfield Township in Michigan, could have the time to file its reorganization plan after an Ohio court makes a decision in the trade-secret lawsuit filed by rival Mike's Train House.

Lionel said it couldn't file a plan until the decision is handed down.

Lionel was sued after its South Korean supplier, Korea Brass, allegedly misappropriated trade secrets from Mike's.

The 2004 decision and $40.8 million judgment derailed the 105 year-old train-maker, pushing it into bankruptcy.


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## Newguy95 (Dec 17, 2009)

im glad they made it through it


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## Jamie23 (Feb 18, 2011)

they are still around so I guess they made it through the recession.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I just finished reading a very interesting book that maps and documents Lionel's business growth (and near death) over the past 100 years:

"Inside the Lionel Trains Fun Factory"

As many of you know, Lionel has been up and down this financial doom roller coaster several times before. They appear to be breathing strong here in 2011.

I'd recommend the book to anyone interested in the company history.

TJ


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I ti important for you all to know that Lionel did go bankrupt and was sued by MTH which aperently mean Mike's train House <-- Never knew that one. Lionel is now ownde by MTH but MTH is allowing them to continue to operate as a seperate entity still which is also why MTH has started makeing the old Standard and o gauge tin plate traditions trains with their logos. It is a shame that a company like MTH which in my opinion is haveing a lot of trouble getting the HO DCS trains to actually be worth buying as none of them will actually run properly with DCC. i was also never quite satified with how their O scale was supposed to work with Lionel transformers and control systems but that never worked either. If you buy MTH you are basically stuck buying only their stuff or switching to the DCC standard or the more popular Lionel standard which is also what Bachmann Williams engines run on as well as many others.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2011)

God bless capitalism !!!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

GC,

I thought the MTH and bankruptcy issues were settled back in 2008, with a settlement plan agreed to by the courts. As far as I know, Lionel was now running on it's own ... it may owe settlement payments to MTH, but I question your statement that Lionel is owned by MTH.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I also question that pronouncement.

No mention of MTH here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel,_LLC

Or here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Corporation


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I got an email from MTH saying that either A: MTH and Lionel were now partnered together and sharing rights to certian things like tinplate traditions or B: MTH boughtout owned through lawsuit or what have you and gained rights to certain things and continued to let Lionel operate as its own and do as it pleased.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

now this was from an email a year or two ago so what I am saying may not be completely true as I can not find the original email. But MTH and Lionel are definatly in some sort of agreement so that MTH can make lionel patented trains.

I am not trying to pick a fight here I am just trying to say what I had heard from MTH's email. Maybe how I read the email was wrong or maybe MTH lied or at one time did own MTH I just don't know.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, MTH got a settlement from Lionel about some patent dispute, perhaps that was the letter? Maybe there was some sort of technology sharing agreement too?


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I read about it on a few other forums and most people were thinking that MTH was going to end up owning Lionel so maybe MTH was counting its sheep ahead of time as well and sent out a letter saying they owned Lionel before they did. Wouldn't seem to crazy to me compared to some things they have tried to get by with. Lionel if i understand correctly did not know they had stolen patented parts in their engines and it was the Korean supplier and manufacturer that stole the parts so MTH was going after the wrong people if that rings true. They are also trying to sue Broadway Limited for patent theft as well. I do not see how that is possible as Broadway does not make O scale trains and MTH has only mad HO for a year or two so it would seem rather that MTH shood be being sued by broadway. I think MTH sueing Broadway might be simply because broadway has made a few engines like the Dreyfuss Hudson which are very nice and detailed that run much better than MTH and MTH is sueing them simply because the two engines have the same shell or something very similar that is very irelavent. MTH has fallen more and more in my few every year with huge rediculos prices for their trains, these stupid law suits, non compatability with other systems, not working with DCC!, I do however still want to pick up the Coors Light bullet train from them. Now that train looks sick!:cheeky4:


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## JaggedEdge (Mar 24, 2012)

*Running MTH using DCC*



gc53dfgc said:


> I ti important for you all to know that Lionel did go bankrupt and was sued by MTH which aperently mean Mike's train House <-- Never knew that one. Lionel is now ownde by MTH but MTH is allowing them to continue to operate as a seperate entity still which is also why MTH has started makeing the old Standard and o gauge tin plate traditions trains with their logos. It is a shame that a company like MTH which in my opinion is haveing a lot of trouble getting the HO DCS trains to actually be worth buying as none of them will actually run properly with DCC. i was also never quite satified with how their O scale was supposed to work with Lionel transformers and control systems but that never worked either. If you buy MTH you are basically stuck buying only their stuff or switching to the DCC standard or the more popular Lionel standard which is also what Bachmann Williams engines run on as well as many others.


I never had a problem running my MTH Dreyfus and N&W J6 using DCC. I have all 28 functions using a NCE system.
MTH sues everybody. They are so full of themselves, obnoxious and terrible people, but the product is good.


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## Wabashbud (Jun 25, 2010)

Now let me tell you what I don't know . . . . . . . . .


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Wabashbud said:


> Now let me tell you what I don't know . . . . . . . . .



Tell us???????????

HUH?


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## Wabashbud (Jun 25, 2010)

Bid Ed:

That's what those dots are.

Bud


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## Tino (Apr 25, 2012)

I have both lionel and mth o gauge. I can run lionel with the mth transformers with the bell and whistle functions, but i cannot use the lionel transformers on mth. It seems like the mth transformers are more versatile. Also the lionel RTR sets with protosound are cheaper than the lionel ones with the railsounds.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What Lionel transformers are you using? I've used a number of Lionel transformers on MTH locomotives, both PS/1 and PS/2. OTOH, I have the MTH Z750 with their IR remote, and it doesn't work worth a hoot with MTH PS/1 locomotives.

The problem with blanket statements like this is they're rarely 100% true.


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## Tino (Apr 25, 2012)

I am not making any blanket statements. For one the mth z750 does not come with remote. How do i know this, because i bought one from the train store. The one that you are referring to is the z500. That usually comes with the old starter sets. Now as for the lionel CW80 that i also have which came with my polar express, i can get the horn and bell to work but not the announcements. Maybe you can fill me in on what i might be doing wrong with the cw80, because i have no problems accessing these functions with my z750 or z1000 transformers. I have used the mth power packs on my lionel and vice versa. Unfortunately i cannot access the station announcements with the lionel CW80. If i am doing something wrong please let me know. I am very open minded and maybe you know something that i am not aware of.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I have the same Lionel CW80 transformer and can run any of my Proto 1 or 2 engines on it and get all the sounds to work. It is a little finicky to learn how to control the throttle to do it but you can manage to get it to activate station sounds and what not.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have an MTH Z750, at least that's what the transformer claims.  Yes, I have the MTH 50-1012 set which is compatible with the Z500 or Z750. My point is simply that this MTH product is not compatible with MTH trains, that's it.

The CW-80 is listed in a number of both MTH and Lionel instruction manuals as not compatible, so it's no surprise that you sometimes have issues. It so happens that I have run ProtoSound 1 locomotives with it without issue, but I stop short of saying that all of them would work properly. However two of two MTH ProtoSound 1 locomotives did NOT work with the MTH IR Lockon remote control.


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