# Wholesaletrains.com Never again



## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

$25.15 for ground shipping for 1 engine New York to Virginia. And not only that, I have to be home to sign for it and it can only be me. So now I have it diverted to a UPS store. Maybe Monday. Supposed to be last Thursday.

And the shipping charge was well concealed, it wasn't even on the invoice I received.

Do not buy from these people. This is supposed to be fun. Now I'm aggravated. Thanks A$$HoleTrains.com

Frank


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Frank: On the other forum I was previously active with, there were numerous posts about the same thing, and many other negative things to report about these folks. i would venture a guess of 90% bad things or posts. High shipping charges, poor, or no communication, and so-on. So, you are not alone with your feelings.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Ohhh, ya think that stinks, order a few items from them. Guess what? Several separate shipments at high cost each. They work over the buyers with handling costs that don't even exist with other stores.


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## BFI66 (Feb 7, 2013)

For what its worth, I was victimized also by them.....they get you with a low price and hit you hard by calculating shipping and charging your card for it later.

-Pete


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Every business has to make money. Some do it transparently - through hard work, efficiency, high volume due to lots of satisfied return customers, and so forth. Some do it through high shipping fees and a "we run this business for us, not you" attitude, etc. I always put wholesaletrains.com in that last category.

I view them as a supplier of last resort. I dealt with them once. I did get what I wanted. Shipped was high and took a long time (most of that I think, before it even left the store).


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks for the heads up folks. Haven't dealt with them, but just deleted their bookmark from my browser so I won't have to.


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

*Frank....Welcome To The Club*

Frank,
I'm glad that you received my email. Glad to see that this post is here to stay. BTW To be abused by a online seller is a terrible club to be in. I fail to understand why they cannot let a person know upfront. One thing for sure, they cannot stay in business without repeat customers.

BobS,
The thread your talking about was deleted like all the others that might help other forum members. Frank's thread was deleted yesterday as well.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

I just ordered an Allegheny from them because they were the only dealer with one in stock (believe me I thoroughly searched the internet). It took them a week from my internet order date to shipping day. According to the provided FEDEX tracking I should get it Tuesday. Though it says no where a signature is required, I will be sure to be home all day Tuesday.

If you did not know Wholesale trains is Lantz Hobby Shop on Horseheads NY. I have ordered from them before with no problems.

Shipping cost are both size and weight dependent unless you leave it to the US Postal Service which I swear make their service a loss leader. Often times the packages are delivered by the USPS but were shipped across country via one of the common carriers and transferred at the destination to the USPS. A package containing an engine can weigh 16 pounds or more, like the one I just ordered. I ordered two passenger coaches from another supplier. They came in a large box and it was over $20. Shipping is no longer cheap as it was for many years. Charging handling charges I think a no-no and not revealing all the shipping and handling charges up front is also a rip-off. But according to my VISA statement it was $26. That is not outrageous for a large 16 lb package. They charge the listed price on one VISA input and the shipping on another VISA input when the package is offered to FEDEX for transport. Until the package is done how else can they know what it is going to take to ship it? With flat shipping fees sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. I would much rather pay the actual shipping cost.

Then there is the signature requirement. Leaving a package on my doorstep that is worth over $600 is probably not wise.The supplier is the one who will get ripped off if some bad guy or gal steals it off my porch. These perps follow the UPS and FEDEX trucks around and collect packages. So for the supplier protection they want the signature. Even if the theft of the package is your fault (you left it out in the open for days) you can still call the credit card company and complain you never got the package. With no signature there is no proof you got it and the supplier is out the money. Lantz is not Amazon and the loss of $600+ would be a significant impact, I would think.

I've ordered thousands of dollars of trains and other stuff on the Internet over the years and the only time I failed to get my order was when the USPS sent it to the wrong post office and that post office refused (I contacted that post office by phone) to expedite getting it to the right post office which in the end they never did. Amazon made it good instantly. For this Allegheny order we'll see how this goes for me but so far so good. 

But it ain't over till the fat lady sings.....Next Tuesday.

Over the years I have had some of the same complaints but I learned over time the why's to these issues.

LDBennett


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'll grant you that there are reasons for many of wholesaletrains/ Lantz Hobby Shops actions. Some of them are even good reasons. I have had orders from them arrive with reasonable shipping costs and no issues, and others that make me want to tear my hair out in frustration.

Bottom line: there are so many other companies out there with more reasonable shipping rates and much better customer service that it just isn't worth dealing with them, unless you can't find it anywhere else.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

> Lynn D. Bennnet posted: If you did not know Wholesale trains is Lantz Hobby Shop on Horseheads NY. I have ordered from them before with no problems.


I just want to pass on a positive for this company. I also have used Lantz Hobbies (Wholesale Trains) for all of my Gargraves switches and want to share that they were very dependable and reasonable.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2015)

This is without a doubt one of the strong points of this Forum, first hand opinion and experiences. :thumbsup:


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

"unless you can't find it anywhere else"

That was exactly my case!

There is more of a negative case to be made for the way MTH (and Lionel??) provides trains to its customers. They bring out new catalogs, offering pre-orders, and then miss their self imposed delivery dates multiple time. I refuse to pre-order anything. If it isn't on the shelf and ready for shipment to me then I don't buy it. I have been frustrated too many times to go through it again.

I appreciate those that have responded here about problems with this supplier and I will take those concerns into account the next time I order anything trains related. I did not read this post until after I had made the Alleghney order and I might have had second thoughts if the timing was different. But I did want this engine and they were the only one with it and I have not had any trouble with them before so I may still have chosen Lantz Hobbies/Wholesale Trains (??).

Even with their practices of shipping costs, while not universally all that prevalent in the internet world and even with the reservations of others with this supplier, I can not deem this supplier to be an absolute no-no. My experience with them is not bad but typical. The only marked difference I see is that they break the VISA charges into two entities, one for the product at the advertised price and a second VISA charge for shipping issued as the package leaves their premises. I wish it where at least estimated but it is what it is. I have dealt with much worse companies on the intenet and in person in my lifetime. I particularly have a problem with items that do not meet the suppliers description.

LDBennett


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I never used them but it does state their shipping charges if you look.
https://www.wholesaletrains.com/shippingrates.asp

I would never pay for something until I know the shipping charge, and if they tack on extra I would dispute them to the credit card company.:smilie_daumenneg:

Like I said, I never ordered from them.
It also sucks how high the shipping rates are rising.:thumbsdown:


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

So all you have to do is look them up! Mine were as posted.

I would have ordered the Allegheny even if the shipping were twice the $26! I want that engine. If they meet the Tuesday delivery, and FEDEX says they will, I have no problem with the time to get to my door.

There is always someone who has a problem with someone else or some entity. I think it the nature of some people to have expectation beyond reasonable. Sometimes suppliers fail one way or another for a person but may be fine for the rest of the world. In this case it seems to be more than a couple of people but it has not been my experience ...YET. TUESDAY is the DAY!

LDBennett


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lynn D Bennett said:


> So all you have to do is look them up! Mine were as posted.
> 
> *I would have ordered the Allegheny even if the shipping were twice the $26! *I want that engine. If they meet the Tuesday delivery, and FEDEX says they will, I have no problem with the time to get to my door.
> 
> ...


Twice the charge?  Shhh, they might hear you.
And if Tuesday comes and goes and there is no train in your hand?:dunno:

Around my area, no matter who delivers, even if the seller paid more for the signed receipt, they just toss and run.
It doesn't matter if it is pouring rain or snowing they just toss and run.
I have been home and watch them run up and toss and run, they don't even try the bell or knock on the door. :smokin::thumbsdown:

I used to have a good UPS man who got every package signed for, UPS said he was taking too long for the run and transferred him to an industrial route. I then got the toss and run people.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Agreed ed, having a good delivery person is always nice. My regular guy will deliver my package to the back of the house and hide it under a garbage can. So its always safe and delivered if hes out its a crap shoot, ill be home and not get a package. They don't even try to deliver it. You check the website and they say its delivered , ill get it 3 days later.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

I never see the same FEDEX delivery person twice. The UPS guy I use to have was always the same but today its the same as the FEDEX guy...never the same or so it seams.

I use the tracking info to follow the package from the supplier to my home. Not all packages need signatures. I have, on more than one occasion, looked at the tracking info and read that the package was on my porch and sure enough there it was. I never heard the truck pull up and often they don't even knock on the door.

FEDEX says the package left Holbrook AZ yesterday. That is more than enough time to get to me by Tuesday if there are no weather or traffic problems. I have found the tracking data from UPS, FEDEX, and USPS usually correct and updated regularly. i have no worry that the package will not arrive on Tuesday but I'll watch that info until it is at my door. But....I ordered a gun several years ago and the UPS truck overturned coming out of San Bernadino on the Cajon Pass. I did get it undamaged but not when I was suppose to.

My worries are when the supplier doesn't pay for tracking and the "shipped email" from the supplier never arrives. Delays in shipping from a supplier without notification of those delays is another problem I on occasion see.

I live outside the greater Los Angeles area in the desert. While my area has 1/2 million people it is still a bit removed from the big city. It is semi-rural with a minimum of stores to buy unusual things, like guns and trains. So I buy tons of stuff on the internet. Most normal businesses are at least 5 miles away and my computer is in the next room. I really have a pretty good idea on how internet sales work and how well home delivery works via UPS, USPS, and FEDEX.

LDBennett


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

First of all, I used their "shipping calculator" page. UPS was never even mentioned and the FedEx choices were cheaper than the stated amount. 

I personally don't care for UPS and will never choose them. FedEx SmartPost or USPS for me. The invoice page still doesn't list the shipping amount. 

I get that it can be expensive but don't lie to me. That is the sin I do not forgive. That and the tough sh*t attitude. I have it redirected to a UPS store in the hope I can pick it up, but if it doesn't show in a few days I'm going to the CC company and reporting it as not delivered.

Frank

Frank


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## Trent Bishop (Jun 8, 2015)

Frank.I feel your pain.Me being new to the forum,I have never dealt with said company.I deal with Ebay (Ya yikes)and I could tell you horror stories about shipping.Besides I residing in Canada.The shipping service is well Bad.How would you like to find a prized 238e prewar steam engine and tender delivered to your backyard!Most companies want to make money on shipping.It seems to be in there blood.Thanks for the heads up.This Canadian wont be using them.




.Oh buy the way the internet has many complaints about them.
Trent


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

I just noticed on the FEDEX Tracking data that the box is 25 inches by 14 inches x 8 inches and weighs 16 lbs. $26 for a package that big is a bargain compared to the usual low cost carrier, the USPS. Tracking info still says "In Transit from AZ" and has not yet arrived in Palmdale CA where the closest FEDEX receiving point is located. But they still have until tomorrow morning to get my package to Palmdale. I'm not worried.....YET!

LDBennett


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

My biggest issue with them was back when the Williams by Bachmann Peter Witt streetcars were released. This item was neither a large nor a heavy item. WholesaleTrains.com charged $27 shipping.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lynn, where do you get your prices? Since I didn't know where in AZ, I picked the most logical place, prices will be very similar. Sure looks a bunch cheaper to me to ship USPS!

Large Package, weight 16 lb 0 oz (7.257 kg), mailed on August 24 after 4:00 PM
from PHOENIX AZ 85005 to PALMDALE CA 93552

Priority Mail 2-Day™More info about Priority Mail 2-Day™
PO Price: $16.80
Online Price: $10.51


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

John:

Did you see the size of the package?

25 inches by 14 inches x 8 inches @ 16 lbs

Is this a "Large Package" in USPS terms? My guess is it is outside even large. I have shipped items recently and don't recall the pricing but it was a lot more than a few years ago when I had to ship something USPS. And it came all the way cross country, not one state away.

I admit when I get to choose shipping USPS is always the least expensive. Often it does not include tracking which is a problem for me. If a signature is required I have to stay home and wait for the package. If I track it I know which day to stay around the house. Some carriers for some packages return the undeliverable package to their facility and it may take days or a trip to them to get the package if I miss delivery. With FEDEX the Palmdale office is over 50 miles away. UPS and the USPS is under 15 miles but a pain if I really need the package. Tracking is a godsend for me.

I guess it is all opinion. I don't think $26 for such a large package that weighs 16 pounds is too much. For a $600+ product I think that not excessive.

Remember the complaint was that the shipping charges were hidden...Wrong, you just have to click to get them. The other complaint was that they would sneak the shipping charges after the purchase charge. I think that is just their method. They charge when the order is made for the product and as it goes out the door as a package they charge the shipping separately. I know of no one else that does that but it is not wrong, just different. When you buy anything on the internet there is always price baiting. Amazon is the best deterrent to this as they show all their associate's prices including shipping. Seen that way there often is little difference between most of the end prices when shipping is included.

It's Tuesday and FEDEX is still on schedule, having moved the package from Bloomington to Palmdale overnight. They are "On Schedule" for a delivery today. Following the package as a measure of Wholesale Trains is meaningless as delivery is out of their hands. Delays in shipping is (and there was about a week of that) and this package was somewhat "delayed' but not excessively.

I am not defending Wholesale Trains. I have only used them a couple times in the last few years and had no problems. I feel for those that have had problems but sometimes there are two sides to the story. In general my dealing with any of all the internet dealers of trains have been good. My problems have always been with MTH, its products, and it pre-order situation. I have no Lionel stuff so I can not judge them but since they operate the same was as MTH (made in China) I suspect there have similar problems. Donald Trump will fix all this when he brings all the manufacturing back to the USA.   Tomorrow these Chinese made products should get cheaper for us thanks to China's money devaluation but most of us will be hurt by the tumbling Stock Market.....Such is life!

LDBennett


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Lynn D Bennett said:


> John:
> 
> Donald Trump will fix all this when he brings all the manufacturing back to the USA.   Tomorrow these Chinese made products should get cheaper for us thanks to China's money devaluation but most of us will be hurt by the tumbling Stock Market.....Such is life!
> 
> LDBennett


And, the beat goes on…………….


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Whether something is expensive or not is, of course, a matter of individual values.

For myself, I rarely see shipping charges in excess of $10 for domestic (US), standard shipment... unless I order from Wholesale Trains.

My son has been getting a lot of stuff to upgrade his layout. A box of structures from Walthers (8 cu. ft & 16 lbs): $8.95. A box of track (4 cu ft & 12 lbs) from MB Klein: also$8.95. One FedEx, one UPS, both shipped to the local post office and delivered by them.

And speaking of good carriers, we used to have a mail carrier who would just leave the "Sorry we missed you" card in the mailbox rather than try to deliver, even though my wife was working from home and seldom absent. Unfortunately for him, it's a small town and we know the Postmaster....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lynn D Bennett said:


> John:
> 
> Did you see the size of the package?
> 
> ...


Not only did I see your specifications, that's exactly what I entered into the USPS shipping calculator. You can do the same thing, just go to USPS and pick "calculate a price". Your "large" package doesn't even come close to the USPS limits, I've shipped considerably larger stuff.

From the USPS site.

_*Maximum Size*

The maximum size for most mailpieces is 108 inches in combined length and girth. Standard Post pieces may measure up to 130 inches in combined length and girth (but will be charged oversized prices).

Regardless of the size of the mailpiece, the maximum mailable weight of any mailpiece is 70 pounds. Some classes of mail have lower weight limits._


Your package comes in at 69 combined, not even close to the 108 inch maximum.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

So the bottom line is UPS and FEDEX are more expensive than USPS. But businesses have the option of shipping by whomever they feel most comfortable with or make the most profit from (think Wholesale Trains). While the USPS calculator tells what it will cost me to ship a package, more than one business I deal with ships USPS and charges higher rates. It is not just Wholesale Trains but many businesses in other products.

For me it goes back to supply and demand. I could not find that Allegheny anywhere but at Wholesale Trains. For an extra $15 (maybe) I got the engine I wanted rather than compromising for one I did not want but had cheaper shipping charges. This is an older offering and I might never have the opportunity to get one (??). I'll take the shipping lumps!

I buy lots of stuff on the internet and high shipping costs are not unique. I never see any shipping charges much below $10 even on small packages. Most stuff that comes USPS does not have tracking. I need tracking to assure that I can be home when the package arrives to preclude it being stolen off my porch. Where I live crime is not rampant but they steal anything to support drug buys. They were stealing Catalytic converters off cars in the Target parking lot in broad daylight and have attempted to steal my RV batteries twice. This is not the big city but a semi-rural area in the desert, way outside Los angeles and San Bernardino. Crime is everywhere.

All that counts is I don't feel my shipping charges are excessive. Yes they could be less but lesser shipping is not offered. So it is what it is.

Now, you want to talk about a rip off for shipping, try shipping a gun. Some states and carriers require over night only shipping. That is expensive!

LDBennett


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

As you might guess Lynn, I'm painfully aware of shipping regulations for guns, especially pistols. 

As far as my other shipping cost comments, I was just addressing the statement you made regarding USPS shipping charges, this one.


> I just noticed on the FEDEX Tracking data that the box is 25 inches by 14 inches x 8 inches and weighs 16 lbs. $26 for a package that big is a bargain compared to the usual low cost carrier, the USPS.


Since I ship a lot of stuff with USPS, that didn't seem right, and on checking you can see it's not. However, one point is that I did NOT include any insurance on the shipping quote, that would have doubtless brought the USPS price up, for $600 I think it ends up being about an $8 charge. Still a bit cheaper than FedEx, but getting closer.  I know there are cases where FedEx and/or UPS might be cheaper than USPS, but I like the fact that I can have USPS pick up at my house so I don't have to trek to the post office for shipments.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

The fact at my house is all the packages are incoming and NONE are out going. I might ship something once a year or less. So my view of shipping cost are on the receiving end and when I do ship the intervals are so long that there is invariably a cost increase.

The shipping on this package is not out of line with others that come my way of this size. Is it usury by Wholesale Trains? I think not but I had no other choice for shipping, anyway.

LDBennett


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## rboatertoo (Aug 5, 2015)

I have order from Wholesale trains, in fact I am waiting for something I ordered last Wednesday, but didn't get shipped till Friday. They had what I was looking for a good price. I have three other dealers I would much rather order from, because of free shipping and same day shipping. Places that sit on a package for two days before shipping are on the bottom of my list.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I ordered the new Legacy B-6 from Charles Ro trains, they sent me a confirmation of shipping the next day, and it should be here tomorrow. That's shipping service! Oh, the cost? $10 shipping...


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

Mine sat waiting shipment for nearly a week. But it came today, on time. Tomorrow I’ll put the engine on the track, program it for DCS and test it out.

This Allegheny is huge and heavy. The detail is superb and even though it is a 2-6-6-6 it runs on O-31 curves. It comes with an extra longer drawbar that I’ll need to install as well as there is a lot of O-31 track on my layout.

So far no negative things to say about Wholesale Trains. They did have a lower price but charged the $26 for shipping. I still won!

LDBennett


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

It went on the layout today and works fine. It didn't like one of my bridges because the bridge is too narrow and part of a curve but I can run it on the other loop that should not have that problem.

From order on the internet to in my hands in 9 days. That's not too bad, I'd say, and the additional shipping charges (if there really was any?) was about $10, I would guess.

Wholesale Trains is NOT on my "BAD LIST", at least not for their performance on this engine.

LDBennett


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Charles Ro just delivered my Legacy B-6, ordered Monday, received Wednesday, not too shabby.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Charles Ro just delivered my Legacy B-6, ordered Monday, received Wednesday, not too shabby.


i've sat in traffic and construction longer than that


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I posted in got anything new, what a great little locomotive! This will surely be one of my featured runners on Saturday at the modular show.


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