# FzCruzer Layout Draft Plan



## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Hello all,

Want to thank all those that have helped in my other thread about industries. Here is the draft plan for the layout that I am planning.

It will be in a 12x18 area, about half of my garage. The grid lines are set for 6".

This is my first layout and the first time I have used any kind of planning software, so please be patient lol.

Here is the Staging area, it is 12" below the first level.




Here is the first level.


Second level, I have it at 24" above the first level.


Any feedback is welcome.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Well, that is an undertaking. It appears that the helix is close to 6 feet in diameter, excellent! I'm having a problem seeing the elevation changes in it but it appears that the staging area is a one way out and no way in unless the leg off the curved turnout goes down. I think you did a great job learning the software.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That is going to be quite a layout...lotta action.
Is it HO?

The first level appears to be large passenger yard
with loco servicing. The tail of the run around track
appears to be only about 18" you might want to
lengthen that. The lower tracks off the ladder seem short for
passenger trains. Have you tried a different design for
this yard? I have in mind a yard that looks a bit like
the grid of a Basketball tournament, the train entrance
being where the winner ends up.

Check the pic showing the throat of the Washington DC
Union Station.

http://www.railfanguides.us/dc/map1/index.htm#Amtraks_Union_Station_

The second level seems to be where you have all of
your industries, though for the size of your layout, 
I expected to see more.

I totally lost count of the number of reverse loops on the various
levels. 

Don


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks fro the input.

The current plan I posted is the "End result" if you will. I am working on the plan now that will show what my short term plan is. I wanted to atleast have a draft together for future expansion so the work I put into the layout is supporting the final product.

I am going to start with just the staging area and the first level. It will be built so that adding the second level will be as seamless as possible.

Couple of reasons for this, I may be moving in the next couple of years into a different house in the same area. moving a single level layout would be easier and depending on the new place, maybe the second deck would not be needed and could just expand into a bigger area.

Other reason is I am new to this, I want to learn and be exposed to as many different parts of the hobby as possible but not so overwhelmed that progress is not ever made lol.

I will post the condensed version soon, one area that I would really like some specific input in is the main yard on the main level. It is the classification yard for the entire layout. I have been messing with it for a while and still am concerned it is not going to do what I want it to. I have "Passenger Terminal" labeled above it, but that is just a place holder for a terminal on that track. The yard will be classifying cars from and too the car float and other industries.

Might be more clear after a post the short term "years" plan soon.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I thought it looked more like a classification yard
than a passenger station track plan. Still, since you
are still in the planning stage, you might take a look
at the grid system for your classification yard. It may
give you more free trackage for car storage. I can tell
you that the first thing that gets overwhelmed is car
storage. I have 2 8 track yards and if I don't have
cars spotted at industries there is not enough room
for them. 

And I'm always urging the use of diode matrix turnout
control for large yards. You push one button and all
turnouts are set for the route you have chosen. Sounds
complex, but very simple. And cheap. But it does require
twin coil turnout motors.

Don


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Hello all,

Made changes that reflect what I want to get done in the short term (relatively).



Brought down the Fuel and Chemical plant from the proposed second level and placed it on the area that will someday become the helix blob feeding the upper level.

Changed the main yard drastically. First I was going through some switching operations in my head and found some big errors and needed to do a rework. The orange tracks are where I can expand the yard, although moving cars from that area will be limited by not having a dedicated lead, not sure if I will need to or not. I do not want to store cars in the classification yard, storage will be in staging under the main level.

Don, I looked and could not find an example of a "grid yard design", but I will keep looking.

The blue tracks represent the switching operations for the rail car float. When I was looking at it I determined that I needed to enlarge the small yard that services the float. I think I have it now, yard holds twice the amount of the float so I have more options there.

So for the float operations, assuming the float yard is empty and that I know what the cars coming on the float are, and I know what cars need to be delivered to the float.

Assemble train on the departure track in the main yard with my SW-7. 

Push the train from the main yard to the car float yard and stage them there using an RS-1.

Car float arrives, use an idler car (locomotive can not go on the float apron), and unload the float placing them in the car float yard.

Pull the cars going onto the float from the yard and load it.

Reassemble the cars from the float yard that just came in, pull them to the main yard for classification to be assembled for trains going out to other industries.

I think that all works and resembles some kind of reality.

Car float holds 12 cars.
Float yard hold 26 cars.

Arrival and departure tracks in main yard hold 17 cars each.
Total main yard capacity with A/D tracks empty is 65, without adding the orange colored tracks. With them added the yard capacity will be more than doubled.

Sorry if this bores you all, it helps me to figure this stuff out, but I can keep it to myself lol.

Rob,


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

FZ

Check the various drawings of the Wash. DC Union
station track plan in the link of my post #3.

That is what I meant when I used the term grid.

Note the trains enter from one or two tracks then
go through a series where each track divides finally
resulting in the passenger loading tracks in the
terminal.

Don


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Latest design, Revision 9 lol.

So I have decided to take out the staging and second level, thus canning the helix.

Many other changes but think I am getting close.

Any input it appreciated.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

In general what you have is a very complex
folded dog bone layout. 

It has two reverse loops, one at each 'end' of the
continuous running tracks. Not a problem with
the right DCC reverse controllers. But you will need to have
some device to automatically throw the points in
the turnouts creating the reverse loops to enable
automatic continuous running. Perhaps a photo cell
or infra red detector would do it.

Azatrax has a device for this.

https://www.azatrax.com/dual-train-detector.html

Don


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks Don,

I will be using DCC. Train detection and routing interests me and I look forward to developing it.

The industry spurs are placeholders until I have a better idea of the industries I want to have. I am looking at the amount of industries, number of cars required and adjust the yard to accommodate.

The car float will be the main feeder / input / output, to and from the layout. I am going to scratch build the float to a size that I want. Currently it hold 15 cars, which is also about the max size for the A/D tracks, and the siding from the car float area.

Once I get that figured out, will move into creating a wiring schematic.

I am hoping I can take away some of the classification tracks on the right hand side of the yard, and use the space for more engine services type stuff. That part of the yard would be difficult to use anyway because of how the yard turned out.

Any input about operations in the current yard design would be appreciated, it has been a challenge for me so far since I have not operated a yard before.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You asked about yard considerations.

You have a very large classification yard. I didn't count
the turnouts but there are many.

In my post #5 on your thread, I brought up the
Diode matrix turnout control system.

Considering the number of turnouts involved, your
control panel is probably going to be quite 
bewildering and likely to be a frustrating cause
of derailments and misdirections.

You can vastly simplify the panel and your subsequent
switching operations by using the matrix. Push one button
in your target track and all turnouts are set for
a clear route.

It does require, however that those turnouts in the
yard use twin coil point motors.

On another subject. I have not yet drawn out your
parallel tracks along the top using red and black for
the rails. I see a crossover connecting what is
effectively two sides of an oval. While a wiring
trick or two can be done, they may be necessary
to avoid short circuits when the crossover is used.
If you would do this you would see where the
problem will show up.

Don


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Went through and colored the rails red and blue to help identify reverse loop issues. I have put orange circles were I have found issues that will need auto reversers. 

The only ones that I found that I do not fully understand how it will work is the relationship between circle 1 and circle 4.

I need to keep reading up on wiring DCC. I have read the site that is often recommended a couple times, but need to read it all again lol.

Not sure how well this is going to show up, hope it is understandable.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Very good. That sure clears the picture.

You are correct where you have insulated
joiners at 1, 2, 3 and 4. However, you also
have a 3rd reverse loop that begins at 3 and 
continues to some point perhaps
near the green spurs in the upper left
of the left loop patterns. 

If I read the drawing right, you will need
an additional turnout next to #2. It appears
there are 3 tracks merging at this point but
only 1 turnout shows. Joiners at both ends
of the loop created by 2 will be the isolated section.

You will want to check out the Digitrax PM42
which is a 4 section device. Each section can
operate as an automatic reverse loop controller.

The crossovers between the 3 top mains do not
cause a problem. Note your red and blue rails.
You will want to observe that when you wire
the tracks. Unless you want to isolate those
tracks for ' power block' control no insulated joiners
are necessary in that area.

Don


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

FzCruzer, looks like you have a really fun and excellent layout plan. There are a few areas of concern I have as food for thought for you:

The only area of concern in terms of arm-reach is the top-right corner of your layout, because that corner is locked in against 2 walls. Is your grid still at 6" spacing or has it increased? It looks bigger. If it is still 6" spacing, then that outer "passenger" line curve is probably a solid 2-feet reach, so plan to limit obstructions in that area so you can maximize your arm stretch to deal with any track issues that may happen in that corner. Then again, I don't know if your grids are 6" spacing anymore, because that means you're only leaving yourself 1 foot of space to walk between the layout which is too tight :dunno:
Your only means to have a train in constant motion without having to constantly throw turnouts is on the outer "passenger" line and *ONLY* if turnouts 1 and 2 are positioned to take it across the swing gate. That means...
If you want to have 2 trains going at once (one on the outer "passenger" line and one on the inner "siding" line), you are going to run into problems at turnout 2, especially if you are trying to get that 2nd train to the chemical plant. Because the chemical plant inner loop track comes off of turnout 2 and turnout 2 comes off the main "passenger" line, you will have operations issues conflicting there.

If you want to be able to run 2 trains on this layout simultaneously with one of them in unattended constant motion / autopilot, then you will need to find a way to make the inner "siding" line independent of operations involving the outer "passenger" line. That means the inner "siding" line should have independent reverse loops at each end to maximize fluid operations. To do this, I would suggest 2 things:

Try to make the chemical plant inner loop track work off of (depend on) the outer loop track attached to turnout 3 instead of depending on turnout 2. You can still have turnout 2 there if you want to be able to switch a train over to the "passenger" line, but don't make turnout 2 the sole dependency for the chemical plant inner loop track.
Instead of turnout 4 coming off the "passenger" line, I would move it down right below to the "siding" line and then try to design another reverse loop track from there that goes around the SEABEE BASE area (so again, it would be independent of the "passenger" line's operations). And just like the above, you can still have turnout 1 there if you want to be able to switch a train over to the "passenger" line.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Thank you both for the input. Will sit down tonight and go through each suggestion and take a look at it. 

There are a couple things that I am not overly happy with and may change some stuff up a little. Glad I am doing all these changes now rather than once committed with track laid, although things will change throughout the entire process I would imagine.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Finishing up with getting the space ready for the layout. Hope to start bench work in less than a month from now.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

When I see complexity like this (fantastic layout plan, BTW) I ask myself why we do not run fixed voltage AC through the rails with a rectifier and remote-control circuitry inside the locomotive. BlueTooth would be an obvious end-game but even hobbyist-grade digital remote controls would provide so much more flexibility and reduced complexity.

My personal opinion is that DCC in its present form(s) is a technological dead end. 

I apologize if that starts a religious war inside this excellent and well-planned layout that OP has put together.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

FzCruiser, I just noticed one more thing... 

The track you have going across the swing gate looks like it is elevated to cross over other tracks on both sides. Assuming the top of that swing gate will be a flat piece of wood that you simply mount the track to, that means the gate piece will need to be raised up in height to match the elevation of the track crossing over the other tracks. This may pose an exceptional challenge to your design where you have this big piece of lifted wood next to your ocean water (on the left) and land (on the right) that makes those areas look awkward. I mocked up a side view diagram for you to consider:


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Yep, switch 1, swing gate, fuel complex loop and switch 2 are all a an elevation of 4".


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Plan is the swing gate is going to "swing" out like a door, not lift or drop. Going to be a scenery challenge but have some ideas.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

FzCruzer said:


> Plan is the swing gate is going to "swing" out like a door, not lift or drop. Going to be a scenery challenge but have some ideas.


Ok cool, just wanted to make sure you were aware of the scenario (and glad you are! )


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks again, all input is welcomed.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Okay made some good progress on some stuff tonight, let me address some of the questions and comments that you all have provided.

Don – I am looking into the Diode Matrix routing. Not sure if it will be a good thing for me because I am leaning towards using either stall motors or servos. I am also looking at some of the routing options that are available in some of the DCC systems and a computer program such as Train Controller.

Don- I changed some track and need to do the blue/red lines again. Will save them on a different layer in Anyrail next time. I think I may have created an other issue a the turnout at grid 1C. I think I have made a reverse loop around the SeaBee base from 12C to 1C that was not there before.

Overcast – the area in the upper right of the layout will be a long reach, the grid is back to a 12” grid. If it is an issue for me once I get the bench work done I can cut the bench work and get it closer. I am also looking at having a rounded backdrop that will eat up some of that corner.

I changed the outer / passenger train loop. If the switches are set in the normal postion the train can run unattended through the entire loop.

There is going to be issues with multiple trains operating at the same time. Like you have stated about the train going to the fuel / chemical area conflicting with the passenger train. Not sure what I can do about that unless I ran a double main, which I do not want to do. In the future there will be some train detection incorporated into the layout such as using Train Controller software.

So I made a lot of changes to the yard and think it is a lot better now than it was. I think I am still going to make it smaller. Right now it will hold approximately 130 cars that average 6” in length. That seems like an awful lot considering I think trains of about 15 cars each is going to be about max size.

I am planning on building a second level after I get the first one operating and am comfortable with it, the bigger yard might be a good thing then as I am not going to have another yard on the second level.

I added letters along the top and numbers along the left edge of the drawing. Though it might help to communicate the location of issues.

Here is Revision 10 Thank you for the help.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Well, you said any input is welcome so here goes, although you might not like my take.

Designing a layout on a computer programme is an entirely different proposition to buildlng and operating it in actuality. A spaghetti blender layout is fine but you need to realise you're not going to have much room for scenery and operations. It occurs to me that you plenty of room for wagons but what industries will they serve? Its very easy to jam in too much.

I suggest you download some templates of turnouts from Peco's site and lay them out on the floor and see how they work out. Some of those radius curves are very tight.

I'm sure you'll get there in the end. Good luck.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks for you input and advice.

I am concerned about having a "spaghetti blender layout" also.

It is difficult for me to visualize the size and overall vastness or lack of it using the computer. I do plan on using template before building to get a better perspective.

I am going to shrink the yard some as I think it is too big for the layout, that should open up some space that is not all track.

I am also thinking about taking out the return loop that is elevated around the water scene.

Smallest radius in the layout currently is 18".


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Digitrax DS64 stationary decoders can be programmed to do routes and will drive twincoil or stall motors. I use them and a single push button can activate a route. It all shows up on your throttle or in JMRI.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

FzCruzer said:


> There is going to be issues with multiple trains operating at the same time. Like you have stated about the train going to the fuel / chemical area conflicting with the passenger train. Not sure what I can do about that unless I ran a double main, which I do not want to do. In the future there will be some train detection incorporated into the layout such as using Train Controller software.


I created a proposal for you to consider that would help you run 2 trains independently of each other. I made this proposal as an animation so you can see which tracks I propose you remove and which tracks I propose you add. In the below animation, the red lines are what I propose you remove, and the blue lines are what I propose you add. The animation loops forever so you can keep watching in case you miss details through the sequences:









I also agree with Cycleops in that you should also make sure your curves meet minimum turn radius, and also it does seem to be a lopsided imbalance of rail yard /amount of cars you can hold vs. limited industries for operations. Long cars like passenger cars and auto racks require bigger turn radii than smaller freight cars, so you need to design your track for their standards.

Is your layout HO or N scale?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, your new drawing and changes at C 1 have
created a reverse loop, but it actually replaces the
one you had before.

I suppose that you could create a diode matrix grid
using stall motors. One of the more involved electronics
guys would have to figure out the current draw and
size of the diodes needed for your ladder track. They
would need the run and stall draw currents, number of
diodes and dc power source data. 

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

FzCruzer said:


> Plan is the swing gate is going to "swing" out like a door, not lift or drop. Going to be a scenery challenge but have some ideas.


Be sure to plan a safety interlock so that anytime the
bridge has swung away, the power is turned off to the
track for a few feet away from the bridge in both
directions. You don't want an expensive loco doing a
power dive off an open bridge.

Don


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

Also think long and hard about the construction of the swing system and how it affects the track rails. Because once you start to swing the arm, the rail on the inner part of the swing will be forced inward on itself and essentially buckle / break. There's also the potential for the swing arm itself to collide with the layout. Consider this diagram:








I honestly don't know how you'd pull off a swing gate because of this circumstance with the rails. I think you'd be better off constructing this to be a completely removable piece instead so you don't have to worry about swing rotations and rail gap clearances as such...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Overkast said:


> Also think long and hard about the construction of the swing system and how it affects the track rails. Because once you start to swing the arm, the rail on the inner part of the swing will be forced inward on itself and essentially buckle / break. There's also the potential for the swing arm itself to collide with the layout. Consider this diagram:
> View attachment 286857
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know how you'd pull off a swing gate because of this circumstance with the rails. I think you'd be better off constructing this to be a completely removable piece instead so you don't have to worry about swing rotations and rail gap clearances as such...


You have to cut the ends of the bridge on an arc (or an angle). Or at least one end (the moving one), if your pivot / hinge is right at the edge.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> You have to cut the ends of the bridge on an arc (or an angle). Or at least one end, if your pivot / hinge is right at the edge.


Good call. What are your thoughts on the rail buckling situation and how to avoid that?


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Don- I will look into your track change recommendations, I see why they would be better. Only issue is both of changes are mixing flat and elevated tracks.

The swing out will be a doable challenge I think. Many plans and videos out there on different ways to do them. I have also seen a couple of them in person.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Overkast said:


> Good call. What are your thoughts on the rail buckling situation and how to avoid that?


You cut them on the same angle / arc as the gate.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

So after considerable thought I am going to be redoing the design almost from scratch lol.

There are a few self imposed "rules / requirements" that I did not follow. It is easy to get carried away when drafting in a computer based system, more track is just a click away, and can get out of control.

Some basic requirements that I wanted and did not follow.

- Minimum radius of 30" on the main.

- mainline will be a minimum of 6" from edge of benchwork.

- A port scene using a car float to help with staging.

- Operations based, enough industries to be interesting.

- At least one area that industries are mixed in with town / city building / roads and such.

I sat down and watched the "Beer Train" operations video series made by model railroader and have a better idea at some things I want in my layout.

Thank you for your input. Hope to get more when I post up the redesign in a few days.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

*Revision 12 will be posted soon*

Hello all,

I have been working on the changes and am almost ready to post the twelfth revision. I should edit the previous images and text so folks are not confused?

Maybe put an "Attention revision 12 is on page 5" or something? Do not want people that are trying to help to waste time gong through obsolete information.

Thanks,


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

FzCruzer said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have been working on the changes and am almost ready to post the twelfth revision.


I went through hundreds of revisions before I settled on my track plan.

If you use a track planning program that supports rendering your plan in 3D you should find it a great help in making sure everything will work as intended.

There are some free track planing programs and they are worth every penny.

I use 3rd PlanIt. Tried all the rest first.

Frederick


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

fcwilt said:


> I went through hundreds of revisions before I settled on my track plan.


Ditto. I posted 18 major revisions that my layout went through, but behind the scenes there were countless tweaks and re-dos that didn't get publicized. Don't let it discourage you... when you nail the right layout you will feel it and know it, and all the iterations will have been worth it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

FzCruzer said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have been working on the changes and am almost ready to post the twelfth revision. I should edit the previous images and text so folks are not confused?
> 
> ...


I don't think you CAN edit that post at this late date.

But no matter, anyone following the thread is most likely to start at the end, and shame on any newcomer who doesn't read ALL the posts before replying.

Put it out there -- let's see what you got!


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Should have the latest update up in a couple days. 

Getting closer, hope to have the area for the layout ready for bench work in two weeks.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

*Major update to plan*

Hello all,

Here is the updated first level of the layout, still working on the second level.

Grid squares are at 12" and is an HO scale layout.

On the south end of the plan, there is a track labeled "Train Elevator / Cassette. This track represents the 6 Track Horizontal Traversing Rack (THTR) lol, that I am designing. It will lift trains up to 8' in length from the staging yard 12" below and also the second deck that will be at 18 " above the main level that is shown. Just use your imagination that is will work at this phase of planning:smilie_daumenpos:

Let me know what you think about the design. I am not sure if the relief industries will work very well on the North end of the main yard. It will be a long line with spaced loading docks but the line will be congested and hard to spot maybe.

As always, your advice is welcome.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Pretty ambitious track plan, like the wye to turn trains.
Doing the SP I take it.

There's a spur coming off the main yard (lead) going to the town/houses area.
What's the purpose of this track? Seems to cut the town in half. 
Everything else seems to have a purpose.

Magic


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Very interesting track plan.

It's got everything. I'm a big fan of single
track main lines and you have a beauty with
plenty of passing sidings so you can run two
or more trains in opposite directions.

There's plenty of yards and spurs for switching.

You'll have many enjoyable hours running this
layout.

Don


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Magic,

The "lead" spur is the switch lead for the yard so I can move large cuts of cars in the yard without fouling the through track. The length may get adjusted later. Although one of the main scenes that I want on the layout is trains doing work in a town environment. I like the look of grade crossings.

It is SP themed, but the way I have it in my head is the "cassette/ elevator track is the so main line, the rest of the layout is a branch line.

The upper (second level) is dominated by the oil and sugar beet industries, hope to have it posted soon.

Thanks Don, ended up spending a lot of time putting this together to resemble what I want to end up with.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Got it. Good idea on the lead.
Beet gons and the SP, for your area just the ticket.
Remember them well.

That's going to be one heck of a layout, good luck with it.
Keep us posted, should be interesting.

Magic


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Think I am close to having it close enough to get started. Here is major revision 21. I am going to start a "My layout" thread soon to start the adventure.

As always, any input is appreciated.

Here is level 1


Here is level 2


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Since you don't have room with the current plan for a yard lead on the other end and you don't have a ladder run-around on that end you might want to just make the yard single ended.

Frederick


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks,

I have been going back and forth with the yard. Think you are right though.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

Wow. Just wow.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

*Single ended yard*

Changed the yard back to a single ended yard. I may reduce the yard some as it seems to be bigger than I might need. Will be one of those things that might get changed when I am laying the yard out on the bench work.


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

That makes more sense I think. 

But I don't think it would prove to be too big. If you are anything like me your collection of rolling stock will keep growing.

Frederick


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I still prefer the track plan of the peninsula
that you have in Post 41. You have the wye
for turning locos around, the outer curve in the
latest drawing seems surplus. It will also complicate
wiring since you can't have two reverse loops that
abut.

I continue to wonder how you are going to be able
to conveniently work your trains on the first level
considering that the 2nd level will limit how you
can reach some parts easily. There will be derails
and other problems that are just a part of the hobby.

Don


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Don,
I am not totally In love with the loop around the peninsula but have trying to include the feel of this scene from a picture of the prototype. Might be another way to incorporate it.


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## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

I have been messing with Sketchup to see what my bench work might look like. I am running into some issues that some have eluded to. Not only does the multi deck make neither deck height a optimal one, it is also compounded by my 6'6" height. 

I put the lower deck at 40" thinking that I could work from a seated position, but I do not think that is going to work for me. I think I need to raise it more.

The second deck is 24" depth is going to be an issue, might need to shrink it narrower so I can see the lower deck better while standing and not hit my head on it all the time.

I may also need to make the viewing height of the first deck less to bring the two decks closer to a manageable height.

I have gone back and forth a dozen times from a single deck layout and beck to the multi deck design, not sure what I am going to do.

Don't mind the actual bench work design, just messing around and learning sketchup at the same time.

The manly figure has been scaled to my height. 



Any input is welcomed.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You are going to be doing a lot of wiring under
the lower deck. It can be very cramped and
awkward. I would suggest that you measure
yourself sitting as you would under the table.
Allow a couple more inches and that total would
be the bottom of your table top.

Another tip, Before you attach the top to your
benchwork, drill holes in the crossmembers thru
which you'll string your cables and wires. Much
easier than doing it under the table.

Don


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Hi,

For working under my layout I built this.

Made things much easier and comfortable.

Frederick


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