# Legacy vs. TMCC



## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Although I've only bought well-loved trains from by-gone eras so far, I was perusing the Lionel site considering buying a new set with all the fancy gizmos offered these days (perhaps subsidized through selling off some of my Post-War stock).

One thing I have a hard time understanding is what benefits the sophisticated control systems provide, and in particular, the difference between Legacy and TMCC. I gather that Legacy is newer and isn't available in as many products, but can someone point me to a guide or primer on what these systems do and their relative merits? My research has turned up lots of complaints on the reliability of Legacy.

Good explanation/information will be much appreciated!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

First off, Legacy is just an extension of TMCC, so if you buy the Legacy system, it'll operate any and all TMCC trains and accessories. Also, the TMCC command base and remote are no longer sold by Lionel, so if you buy a new set, you're pretty much stuck with Legacy.

As far as reliability of Legacy, I have to disagree. I know a number of people with Legacy, including myself, and it's been fine. The ONE major complaint that many have had is the charging circuit in the Legacy base for the remote. This was a persistent issue, Lionel finally redesigned the charging circuit. The good news is that Lionel also offers an extended (currently unlimited time) warranty on the Legacy system itself, so any fixes are free. If you're a veteran, you even get free shipping both ways for any warranty repairs at Lionel.

To summarize, Legacy is just a vastly improved TMCC.

The other major O-scale control system is MTH DCS. It has similar but different capabilities than Legacy/TMCC, however it is not compatible. You can run the two systems together, but if you have just Legacy, you can't run MTH PS/2 or PS/3 locomotives under command control. Conversely, if you have the MTH DCS system only, you can't run Legacy/TMCC locomotives under command control.

As for the benefits, you really have to experience it to fully understand. 

Here's a Lionel Legacy Control System site to read all about Legacy.

Here's an MTH DCS ProtoSound DCS Site to read all about DCS.

Come back anytime if you have specific questions, we'll try to answer them.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> First off, Legacy is just an extension of TMCC, so if you buy the Legacy system, it'll operate any and all TMCC trains and accessories. Also, the TMCC command base and remote are no longer sold by Lionel, so if you buy a new set, you're pretty much stuck with Legacy.


I was guessing that, but looking through the sets for sale on the Lionel site, there are probably 3 times as many TMCC as Legacy.



gunrunnerjohn said:


> The other major O-scale control system is MTH DCS. It has similar but different capabilities than Legacy/TMCC, however it is not compatible. You can run the two systems together, but if you have just Legacy, you can't run MTH PS/2 or PS/3 locomotives under command control. Conversely, if you have the MTH DCS system only, you can't run Legacy/TMCC locomotives under command control.


If someone were to pick one or the other, do you have one you'd recommend? The MTH DCS sounds a bit more capable than Lionel Legacy, but I think I prefer the selection of locomotives and RTR sets Lionel offers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I have to say if I could only have one, I'd have the Legacy. I like some of the features of MTH stuff, but the Legacy sounds have them beat by a long shot.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Based on what we've discussed in this other thread, I'm thinking that a RTR set is probably not the way to go. I'd probably be better off buying a nice control system and a compatible locomotive. I have plenty of track, rolling stock, and transformer power already.

There appear to be lots of controllers (at least for DCS) that are capable of controlling different numbers of locomotives. Is there a single controller that gives the most bang for the buck? I think I'd like to control at least 3 locos at the same time (future growth to add new locos or convert existing ones).


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

The key advantage of Legacy is a hand-held remote that operates Legacy or TMCC trains. Here is a list of things the remote can do for you:


Run the train and change direction
Blow the whistle and ring the bell
Make other cool sounds like radio chatter and steam blow off
Uncouple the engine
Operate the switches and accessories with an optional control unit

Those are the key points. At least the ones I use. There are a lot of extra features of course and you should go to the Legacy web site or look up one of the videos on youtube to learn more.

Bottom line is if you want or need a hand held controller that will do the above list with your new Legacy equipped or TMCC trains then go with Legacy. If you can live with transformer control and just the bell or whistle you can stay pat.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you want to control multiple locomotives, you are basically looking at either Lionel Legacy or MTH DCS, both are in the same price ballpark. I think the MSRP of the Legacy is $349, and the DCS is $329. Both go for street prices between $275-300 if you shop around.

The real decision here is, do you like the Lionel or MTH product line the most? Eventually, you can expand and have both systems, but if you start with one, which will it be.

Note that one benefit of Legacy is it's backwards compatible with TMCC. There are tons of TMCC compatible accessories, not to mention the nifty Fastrack command switches. TMCC also allows you to have much smaller command controlled track vehicles, like the early era inspection car or the TMCC speeder.

The last two are conversions I did from conventional to TMCC.


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## Toot_Toot (Dec 3, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The last two are conversions I did from conventional to TMCC.



Ah, OK. I've caught hints of this possibility through reading- kind of surprised I've not seen it more often... 

You do this through the addition of a circuit board with the appropriate wiring harness for the vehicle, yes? Does this also work for the lower-end locomotives that come with (most of) the RTR sets? I'm mostly concerned with speed control so we can get good smoke and lights without the thing highballing around the track.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

John, you know I have both systems ,as you do ,and I hate to correct the master, but you can run TMCC locos with MTH DCS system, but the Legacy locos will only have TMCC feachers.
also Lionel has anounced that in 2013 they are going to re-introduce the TMCC cab-1 , I know they said it would never be offered again,but it seams the "old" guys are complaining that they can't figure out how to use Legacy, this is what I was told by Lionel service, if you have the new cat.for 2013 its in there..........Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mike, you can ONLY run TMCC locomotives if you already have a TMCC or Legacy command base. When talking the basics of each system to someone, I choose to omit the advanced configuration features, especially if they involve extra hardware. If you're starting from scratch, it's pretty unlikely you're going to want to go out and buy both systems from the gate.

The "new" CAB1L is really a stripped down Legacy system that omits many of the features that make Legacy popular. This is NOT in any compatible with the old CAB1 or TMCC Command base, it runs on different frequencies and is a totally new design, more correctly called *Legacy Lite*. No prices have been announced, and the speculation is that it'll be too expensive to compete with the $50 MTH DCS Remote Commander and be included in RTR sets anyway. That's the void that Lionel should be filling.

IMO, the CAB1L the answer to a question that should have never been asked!


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## Toot_Toot (Dec 3, 2012)

Toot_Toot said:


> Ah, OK. I've caught hints of this possibility through reading- kind of surprised I've not seen it more often...



Doh! There's a whole sub-forum on this very board with a sticky thread right at the top of it about this.  Nevermind...


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