# Sticker Shock



## joecatch (Dec 16, 2014)

I built a 5x9 HO layout 15 years ago (my first) and I had to scrap it a few years ago because my kids needed the space. Back then I could buy engines for $100 and rolling stock kits for about $9.

Now I am living somewhere else and I am thinking about a nice little 4x8 layout. But checking the prices of engines, rolling stock and track has left me shocked! I am seeing prices of engines (DCC with sound) for well over $200 and rolling stock like tank cars for $45! Turnouts are $20 - $45 each. I can't believe how expensive everything has gotten. No wonder why many people don't get into this hobby, it is just too expensive. Now I am wondering if I should even start. Like who has $1000 to buy 4 engines? 

JC


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

...and have you been to the grocery store lately? hwell:

I feel your pain, believe me all of us do. I am a firm believer in buying used you just have to be careful where you shop. 

15 years ago there was probably a lot less DCC and such. If you are willing to actually run your trains and can dispense with the background noises, you can still run a formidable block setup. 

Go to swap meets, join a club, frequent shows, and there's always evil-bay!:stroke:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Check out O and G gauge prices and you will almost think HO is cheap. Yes, the hobby
has gotten expensive. It would be tough starting from scratch. You can still have a small oval 
Layout for under 100 bucks one engine and a few cars. If you want DCC and sound it goes up fast. Get to know your prices and then watch for deals. They are out there.
Some of the online train stores run very good prices. I only buy if its a deal. The prices from the stores are cheaper than ebay. I buy a lot of things off of ebay but seldom get a deal on train stuff. Its still a fun hobby. Most hobbies ain't cheap.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have a 100+ sq foot layout with a roundhouse, two large yards, small hidden yard and two main lines. All DC in blocks. Only new locomotive I ever purchased was a Thomas set for my kids to watch. I have had to purchase some switch machines and flex track new. Everything else has been found at shows and EBay or in trade sections on forums. Three of the kits I built were new, rest used. Also many of the locomotives I have were in poor shape when I received them, I restored them and they run great now. All of this stretches the budget.

I was not in a hurry to build everything at once. This allowed me to take time to find a part. I had one working loop so if I was held up with track-work I could do landscaping, held up their I could build rolling stock and so on. This saved cost.

On a side note the one thing that I way under budgeted for was wire. Do not go cheep in this area and try an do it piecemeal. 

Save on landscaping. I used paper mache for my hills. Rocks are for fish tanks and the dirt is ground walnut shell for lizard bedding both bought in bulk at a pet store. At a show I bought old partial shakers of ground cover. Mixed my custom color and did the layout with that. There are allot of things around you can re-use for other purposes.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

JC

You can spend a fortune and build a layout...or you can be
a cheapskate and build one that is more fun like I did.

Do not fear the used train market. There have been so
much HO train gear sold the past couple of decades that
the train shows are flooded with excellent values.

I bought a Bachmann Spectrum GP30 for 10.00. Very
detailed and without damages. It was 
absolutely trouble free and is one of the strongest
pullers you could get. I added a 15.00 Digitrax
decoder and it has become one of my favorites.

You have a choice of hundreds if
not thousands of used train cars of every type and make. Those with
Kadee couplers the going price is 5.00 to 10.00.
Without Kadees, anywhere from 3.00 to 5.00.

There are equal values in used flex track, turnouts,
and DCC systems.

Also check, daily, the For Sale or trade section of
our forum. You'll find outstanding gear at
value prices.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, don't forget that if prices rise, on average, 2-3% a year, in 15 years your price will be 35-55% higher than the original. But you're not comparing apples to apples. That $300+ gets you sound and DCC and a smoother mechanism than that $100 did 15 years ago.

Another issue is that everybody (not just model railroad suppliers) shifted a lot of production to Asia, where labor rates were dirt cheap and more than offset the added shipping costs. Now, these Asian countries have realized that all this production is wrecking their natural resources, and their people have decided that they want to be able to buy iPhones and cars too, and suddenly Asian production ain't so cheap anymore. 

Go slow and be smart and you can beat the high price.

And please, don't let this become like another forum where I used to post, where a day didn't go by without someone complaining about the cost of the hobby, the reduction in quality, or the predicted demise of the hobby.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Buy used! Plenty of good stuff for discounted prices, as compared to new.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Bachmann has a decent line of DCC locomotives in the $60 to $70 range. No sound.
Available from Trainworld and Modeltrainstuff.com for that price. If you catch a sale they can even be in the $50 range.


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## yardmaster54 (Feb 1, 2015)

I buy a lot of DCC locomotives off ebay. I have got DCC locomotives with sound between $100 and $150 or less. You can find good deals at model train shows if look hard enough. You can also get good deals on rolling stock at auctions . Don't give up. I have gotten some really good deals from all three venues. Keep your wheels on the tracks and your whistle blowing. lol


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

I hear what you're saying my friend & it's a real bear for those of us on tight budgets! It almost appears to me as though things have doubled or even tripled in some areas just in the last ten years? An example is Model Power HO scale vehicles. I bought about 50 of them back in 2009 for $4.95 each from a dealer back east & those same vehicles today at most stores are over $10 each. That's insane if you ask me.

These guys are correct though, there's plenty of fine used equipment out there if you're real careful where & who you buy from. I no longer trust evil-bay as I've been stung far too many times, plain & simple. Sure, most of the time you can get your money back but, it's the hassle of going thru all of that is where I take issue. You would be surprised how much HO stuff I've bought from Craigslist on the web. Much of it was within driving distance too which made it real nice cuz then you can see & touch what you're buying. You might want to give that a try?

I've been doing this since the late 60's so you can imagine the price hikes I've seen over the years, lol. I simply refuse to pay those prices today & I do some serious research & shopping before I buy. I can't see paying $25 to $45 each for rolling stock & I don't care who makes it or how detailed they are. They are simply not worth it to me! Most everything I buy except for track is used items or lots of NOS (new old stock) at really great discounted prices. A recent example is, I purchased a nice Athearn GP40-2W, DCC & sound both for just $149 at Model Train Stuff where I'm a regular customer. Watch for sales, check with local clubs, read local newspapers & local ad-sheets & you'll be surprised what you can pick up.

I purchased a complete Bachmann EZ-Command DCC system with a Bachmann 5 amp booster, all items new in the factory packages all for $150 from an estate sale. You can make a real killing at an estate sale because many people view model train stuff as toys & many have no idea what this stuff is worth today. Now, I never take advantage of anyone nor do I try to cheat them price-wise however, there have been a few times I've haggled over prices & got a better deal. You can buy new cheap if you watch what you do & are not in any big hurry.

I buy most of my stuff online, as I live in a small town in Texas where we have only 1 train shop & this guy's prices are highway robbery because he knows he's the only game in town. I only buy track from him or, sometimes I buy his NOS items because for whatever reason he has cheap prices on that stuff?

I agree, pricing has gotten out of hand & has really prevented a lot of folks from getting into the hobby or returning to the hobby but, to me it's the greatest hobby in the world & I enjoy it too much to let insane pricing get to me. I have learned to either do without or I simply take my time, shop around, look for bargains & only buy when prices are realistic! Hang in there my friend & don't let the stickers get to you.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I reiterate what I said in my earlier post. I pretty much lost interest in another forum I paricipated in because there were too many discussions that were essentially grumpy old men posting about how much better "the old days" were. Let's keep things fresh and talk about how we model in THIS day and age. The past is gone. Let's pay it tribute through remembrance and preservation, but not let it sour our life today.


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Past is Past...On With The HUNT!!*

You must use stealth, cunning and bravery while hunting for the elusive Elephants Graveyard of Model Trains...only the patient well trained eye of an assassin can bring riches beyond belief...only to find you could had it cheaper someplace else...LMAO!!! Depending on your age...and by my age you should have pretty much everything you need..unless your Capt. Ahab looking for Moby Dick...you can find anything out there that beats the pants off of off the shelf...research and what YOU need for your collection & Layout!!


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

CVT, I model in this day and age by hunting down those models from those old days, no grumpyness about it and I am far from old. We live in what should be the golden age of model trains, we have the best selection at our finger tips, from the LHS, to ebay's 24/7 train show to the normal shows we love to attend. From the newest and greatest from BLI, Athearn ect to oldies but goodies from PFM, older run Athearn blue box ect. I love it.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It truly is the hobby for all tastes....from those who like the latest and greatest, to those who like to resurrect old junk.....and by old junk, I do not mean to put down those who like to do that.....to each his own.....

I too liked to fix up the oldies once upon a time, but my tastes advanced to more detailed, accurate pieces, and to get those, I have to spend some money.....And I do so most willingly.....that's the best part, we get to chose what to do and what we want....and how much we want to spend.....


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

I also really enjoy resurrecting the old stuff, especially the vintage wood/metal kits! I'm really big into kits personally only because I enjoy building them & they ARE cheaper than the RTR stuff today. I don't think complaining about outrageous pricing today is necessarily being grumpy, rather being wise & frugal actually.

I've seen some guys invest thousands (and I mean thousands) of dollars to have their layouts & trains to their taste & that's fine but, some of us in the hobby either aren't that into the hobby to invest small fortunes or in my case... some simply can't afford the prices today. In my opinion, especially when it comes to rolling stock made of cheap plastic... I can't see paying more than a twenty dollar bill. Now, if we're talking highly detailed brass rolling stock that is well made? Sure, I'd drop a fifty dollar bill for one of those if I really wanted it but, let's be realistic here when it comes to some of these prices from some manufacturers, they are simply way out of line on their pricing. Yes, I realize this is the 21st century but still???

I can recall just twenty years ago, one could walk into his/her (women like the hobby too) local train shop, drop a hundred dollar bill & walk out with several rolling stock. Today you can't buy a decent DC locomotive for that same hundred dollar bill & to me that's just insane, sorry. OK, I'll jump down from the podium now, lol.

Still, one can get some pretty great deals if you know where to shop & what to look for. I buy a lot of the older stuff simply because I like the vintage Varney, Rivarossi, AHM, etc. stuff & by adding a decent set of trucks with some nice metal wheels, you can have some nice rolling stock at a very reasonable price. I'm far from being a grumpy old man but at the same time, I'm a frugal kind of individual & can't see paying the prices some of these companies demand today, that's all. To each their own & it is a great hobby so, the idea is to have fun anyway & that's the bottom line!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yep a fact of life, everything goes up dramatically.

Everything but a worker's paycheck, and even if that goes up they find a way to take that away too, one way or the other.:smokin:


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

big ed said:


> Yep a fact of life, everything goes up dramatically.
> 
> Everything but a worker's paycheck, and even if that goes up they find a way to take that away too, one way or the other.:smokin:


Indeed, indeed & they keep inventing ways to get even more!


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## CrazySpence (Jan 15, 2015)

Yea it can be pricey however,

while much of the world curses Bachmann's name you can get *decent dcc locos from them for about $100 still if you don't want sound

They actually started selling their uglier bundle GP40 DCC engines again solo for even cheaper at $60 but if you want them to look at least sort of correct those ones might cause eye twitches. The $100 ones are at least sort of accurate and usually just missing the detail while the $60 ones even the paint/decals are off

For track you can get used sectional for cheap, I use EZ track cause it's easy to put together/take down in my non permanent setup and used I get them for $1 a piece

Atlas snaptrack turnouts are still decent for prices

Buy used rolling stock at shows/swaps or at a good hobby store that has a used section. 

It all depends on how you shop I suppose


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## pn6 (Feb 13, 2015)

Just like any hobby, the longer you're in it the more everything costs. My grandkids have no concept of model "building" from a "kit" that costs 5 bucks. They want that $42.95 car that already has metal wheels and etched parts on it AND is assembled. It's their world now so we either have to step up or hold on to what we can now...


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Well earlier today I got some serious "sticker shock" myself while cleaning off my roll-top desk to do some work. To make a long story short, my roll-top is my work bench for my model railroading hobby & it was piled high with receipts, empty boxes, etc... and I needed a space to work on my locomotive decoder issue.

Looking over one or two of the receipts, I found one where I purchased a couple of Walthers Cornerstone kits back in November 2010 and you won't believe this either but, here's the price on those two kits then compared to the price today for the same two kits:

Walthers Cornerstone "Al's Victory Service - HO scale - $18.95 in November 2010. Walthers website shows $31.98 for the same kit now, February 2015.

Walthers Cornerstone "Glacier Gravel Company" - HO scale - $27.95 in November 2010. The Walthers website shows $49.98 for the same kit now, February 2015.

In less than five years that's how much those two kits have increased in price & they are made of cheap plastic, one of the cheapest materials today! Go figure???


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I think part of it is that we older guys tend to think of how much a "kit' used to cost, and compare that to the prices of today's pre-built items.

All of today's pre-built items in fact start out as kits, but those kits are assembled before they sell them now. And there is a cost to that, which is why they now cost so much more....I think we can attribute that to the "instant gratification" trend these days; items get built and sold to use right out-of-the-box...no assembly, gluing, painting, etc.....instant gratification!

But some of us still like to build the kits...that's what gives *US* gratification....but they don't tend to want to sell un-built kits anymore. Probably something to do with profit margins.....

Times they are a-changin'.....already have, actually. The only thing we can do if we don't like it is find a way to adapt, or find another hobby.....and we know that's not going to happen!

IMHO, as per usual....


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> I think part of it is that we older guys tend to think of how much a "kit' used to cost, and compare that to the prices of today's pre-built items.
> 
> All of today's pre-built items in fact start out as kits, but those kits are assembled before they sell them now. And there is a cost to that, which is why they now cost so much more....I think we can attribute that to the "instant gratification" trend these days; items get built and sold to use right out-of-the-box...no assembly, gluing, painting, etc.....instant gratification!
> 
> ...


While I agree with that my friend, I'm still one of those guys who likes building the kits & the only time I buy "build-ups" is when I can no longer find the kits. Those two items I mentioned in my previous post are still kits believe it or not & are not the "build-ups" kits. I would hate to see the cost on those two if they were "build-ups"?

Speaking of these "build-ups", I purchased one of those kits with the water tower, sand tower & sand box w/lighted building & it looks like a small child put this thing together. It was built so poorly I couldn't believe that kit actually left the manufacturer? I ended up disassembling the kit very carefully, painted it to look realistic, then I rebuilt the kit myself. The kit is by Model Power #572 Steam Loco Supply in HO scale. It came with two painted figures that look pretty good actually but the kit itself was really, really bad. It wasn't worth the hassle of returning the kit & waiting for another one or dealing with poor customer service people from that particular online store so I just kept the model & totally rebuilt & repainted t myself. Now I have a great looking kit so I'm happy & that's the bottom line right!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Model Power recently went out of business until the assets and the brand were picked up by MRC. This may account for the quakity control problem as they may have been trying to liquidate inventory.

That said, I've always found Model Power's offerings to be in the "merely ok" category.


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