# Hey, New Here, Intro and Questions!



## SuBXeRo (Jun 28, 2011)

Hey everyone, my name is Ian, im from NJ and I have an interest in model trains. My father has O scale diesal locos and cars from when he was a kid, about 40 years ago. Im 24 and have O27 trains from when i was about 9-10. I had 2 4x8 sheets setup at one point, good size set but i was young and didnt really know what i was doing. My cats peed on my crummy tunnel that i made and on other parts of the table. Eventually we scrapped the tables and stored the trains.

Now that i'm 24, i just moved back home from az after schooling at ASU and working for a year doing commercial leasing (my major was real estate). I now have the ability to pick up a hobby again aside from my home theater addiction.

I have decided that i want to jump down to HO scale trains as they are smaller. I have alot of nice cars from my O27 set, i have gold boulion cars, i love them, but i think that for the size i want to do which is a 4x4 sheet they are just too large for that. This brings me to HO scale size as i have heard that its a good size and it still maintains good detail over smaller sizes such as the n scale, its also a bit more affordable than some of the larger model sizes.

I am here to ask for advice on brands, i want good quality locomotives. I am a huge fan of steam engines and i was thinking i would do an old fashioned passenger car type setup. I 'd like to do a very wooded wilderness scene with faux water and perhaps a mountain or 2. I was also contemplating making a setup for christmas where we can place our christmas village on. We usually close my sisters baby grand and place everything ontop of it. That would be a great setup and really bring to life the passenger train polar express type look. These ideas are meant to be high quality, high detail and longer term build setups.

I like lionel as a brand as it really dominates the o and o27 gauages but as for everything else i am kind of out in the cold and need to be warmed up. I think i want a DCC loco, all the bells and whistles....litterally. I like die cast if i can get it, but again i may be looking for something that doesnt exist.

So far i have come up with this. Atlas brand for the track and or trians/locos, athearn and bachmann seem to be the best brands from the loose amount of reasearch that ive done.

Thanks guys!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi Ian,

I'm going to let our other (more experienced) HO guys respond to your question about brand, but I just wanted to say "Welcome to the forum", and let you know that that was a very well phrased and thought out first post.

Oh .. the Forum has a very helpful Search tool ... poke around for "HO brands" and the like to see what thread hits you find. 

See ya' 'round the tracks!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Personally, I'd think a 4x4 sheet would be more like N-scale territory, I can't imagine doing much with HO in that area.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh ... c'mon ... I'll bet Choo Choo (Greg) chimes in with a differing opinion there! 

Ian ... Greg is a big fan of micro layouts, heavily inspired by incredible Japanese layouts. Lots of small twists and turns, often in a moutainous setup, all in a very small space.

That said, I do agree with John on this point: 4x4 is certainly not the "conventional" size setup for HO. But it's your layout ... you get to call the shots.

This link below will give you some "initial thinking" ideas on layout options ... scroll down to the HO section, then click on layout sublinks ...

http://www.thortrains.net/

Oh ... Ian .. check out this thread on "best brands", below ... pay particular attention to Stationmaster's comments in Post #14 ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3815

Also, good info in this thread, though not necessarily just HO related ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=4625

TJ


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## SuBXeRo (Jun 28, 2011)

Hey guys, thanks for the warm welcome. I am a very avid fan and consistant member of the Klipsch forums and i deal a fair bit of advice on that forum as well as partake in learning from many of the members there. I was pointed to this forum from a member there and so far it seems to be a good start for me. One thing i have learned is people can only help you if you give them as much information as possible.

I had considered N scale but it seems that there is more availability and detail with HO scale trains and was the sole reason i decided to go with HO. If this is wrong i would be happy to consider N scale. I know a 4x4 sheet isnt huge, but im not looking to do a massively intricate track layout. This sounds great in my head but again, it has been a dogs age since i have actually seen HO scale in person and i may be thinking they are smaller than i remember.

I could potntially enlarge the setup but at the same time, i am trying not to take up a ton of space in our basement. I could also maybe so a 3x5, something like that which is more managebale to move around than a 4x4.

I have a lot of ideas in my head of what to do, one thing at a time.


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

SuBXeRo said:


> .
> 
> I had considered N scale but it seems that there is more availability and detail with HO scale trains and was the sole reason i decided to go with HO.


At one time this was very true. But today, N scale merchandise availability is more or less right up there with HO. So with that being said, along with your space being at a premium, and N scale being half the size of HO, this means that if you choose N scale, you'll actually have twice the scale size layout in the same amount of space. 

It'll be a lot more space given to your creativity. I think this is definately worth taking a close second look at. Another way to look at it is, with what all HO scale has to offer, if you don't have the space for what you want to do with it, then what good is it? When the model train bug bites, and then you can't do what you want because of an issue of a little miserable space, believe me, the only thing you'll be left with in the end will be disapointment and frustration, instead of being the proud builder of an awesome layout, and for what? 

Take your time to really study this a bit. If you do, I believe after it's all said and done, you'll really be glad you did. It's your layout. And because it's your layout, you really owe it to yourself to do this. They say hind sight is 20/20. This is a case where a little foresight can be 20/20 as well. The best to you. Welcome to the forum.

Routerman


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You know O gauge, here is a picture Of O & HO with N being the smallest.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The problem with that picture is that the N are farther away, so you don't have the same perspective, you need to line them up side by side.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The problem with that picture is that the N are farther away, so you don't have the same perspective, you need to line them up side by side.


This better?

O the largest then HO then N.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Much better, now you need the same type of locomotive for each scale, the RS-3 for N scale doesn't fit in. 

Can you tell I'm just being a PITA?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Much better, now you need the same type of locomotive for each scale, the RS-3 for N scale doesn't fit in.
> 
> Can you tell I'm just being a PITA?



I was going to add in the post that I did not feel like digging for the correct N engine. 
Matter of fact I did but deleted it.

For his size layout, I think N would be a better choice for what he is planning to do.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I agree, I think you won't get much HO in a 4x4 layout.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Think of it this way....

Building a 4x4 in N scale would be able to contain the same trackage/details as an 8x8 in HO or a 16x16 in O scale.

A 4x4 in HO would basically be a circle unless you went with short rolling stock/engines and you'd have to go with curved sidings as you wouldn't really have any straight sections on the layout.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Here is my small N layout I got from my big sister, she had it set up with a town.
I set up this town in 5 mins, nothing was planned just a throw one here and there. Took 5 mins.

This is 35" x 48".

So you could put a nice layout together with a three x five in N.
I think N has plenty of detail to them.

These are N scale.
Pictures came from this thread, 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7158&highlight=scale


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## SuBXeRo (Jun 28, 2011)

guys, great comparisons. You are right, i think that N scale would be a great size for the setup that i want to do. I like the size of HO scale, possibly something i will try out in the future.

With HO and N scale, how strong are the locomotives? I am sure they have some pretty nice gear reductions but they are small, good pulling power for inclines?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, remember that the N-scale cars typically weigh about an ounce or less. I've seen an N-scale layout at a train show with about 150 cars on it, it was being pulled by three N-scale locomotives. So, I think you can probably pull all the cars you can fit on a layout that size without too much trouble.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

How big of an incline are you planning?

Out of all of my assortment of N, they all pull on level ground quite well.

I never really had an N layout, if you read the thread in the link I put in the above post, you will see how I got (stole?) all my N. 

Here is one of my crummy videos for you.
These engines could have pulled more then I have hooked up.
Top of line...I would say is Kato.

These are not Kato engines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr8G4l8I6T0

If you cut the base in the shape of the baby grand you could make a nice N scale layout.

Heck...Just tack the track or glue it to the top of it.:laugh::thumbsup:


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## SuBXeRo (Jun 28, 2011)

that was a great video. I think i will go with N Scale, i can always jump sizes in the future haha. I didnt have any really steep inclines in mind, i just have a landscape idea in my head but no track layout really.

I was cleaning the basement today, digging out some of my old o27 gear, trying to find my roling stock. I think this christmas they will get setup somewhere, always loved em!

Next step for me is to find a good place to buy my gear from. Do you guys like online shops or are most of you a fan of the local hobby store?


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

SuBXeRo said:


> guys, great comparisons. You are right, i think that N scale would be a great size for the setup that i want to do.
> With HO and N scale, how strong are the locomotives? I am sure they have some pretty nice gear reductions but they are small, good pulling power for inclines?





big ed said:


> .
> Top of line...I would say is Kato.
> 
> These are not Kato engines.


Ed is right. Kato is the CREM-DE-LA-CREM. Though they do make a few steam engines, their main production is diesels. Bachmann Spectrum makes really great steam engines and they have a large selection to choose from. In diesels, the top notch brands are Kato, Atlas, Atlas Trainman, and Athearn. These all have great pulling power on both level surfaces and inclines while pulling several cars. They may be small, but they're mighty. In diesels, my favorites are the SD models.

In rolling stock, Kato's main bag is passenger cars, as they make the best. In freight, I think Micro-Trains and Athearn make the best. In both engines and and rolling stock, try to stay away from such brands as Model Power and Lifelike as they're models are mostly junk. In structures however, they have some really nice buildings. There are lot of other really great buildings, etc. made by several other companies as well, with some really nice ones available only in N Scale. Athe same time, a lot buildings that are offered in HO are also offered in N scale as well. Woodland Scenics offers a good selection of tunnel portals as well as a lot of other scenery products. There are two really great online stores. Here's the lincs to both of them. http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ and http://hobbylinc.com/ 

Routerman


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

My opinion is support your local hobby shop. You'll pay a little bit more, but you'll get excellent service/support (most likely) from the LHS vs internet. I shop a number of different local stores, but I also order from Walthers fairly often as they have frequent sales. Check with your LHS, they may match Walthers sales prices.


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## SuBXeRo (Jun 28, 2011)

im not agaisnt the local hobby shop, one of the girls i graduated high school with, her father owns a hobby shop, mainly lionel trains though, that is where i got all of my 027 gear. I am still trying to find my stuff that i have so far, i try and throw some pictures up, i am very proud of my gold cars, i still think they are some of the posh rolling stock i have ever seen...i mean hell, gold..............


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

sstlaure said:


> My opinion is support your local hobby shop. You'll pay a little bit more, but you'll get excellent service/support (most likely) from the LHS vs internet. I shop a number of different local stores, but I also order from Walthers fairly often as they have frequent sales. Check with your LHS, they may match Walthers sales prices.


Well, I like a good LHS, too. But then it really depends on the hobbyshop. A good hobbyshop will always keep their prices far below what Walthers lists in their book anyway. We used to have a hobbyshop here and his prices were always below walthers and a lot of times after buying a bunch of merchandise, he'd throw an additional piece of merchandise in free to boot. 

He also did repairs. Had classes on modelrailroading and on every other hobby as well. It always seemed that whatever you needed, he had. And if he didn't, he could order it and it would be there in a couple of days. It really was a great place. It was a real pleasure to shop there, as it was an all around hobbyshop. He even had a few rocking chairs there and you could sit there and shoot the bull with him and he always had a smile on his face and really appreciated everyone that came in. In additon, if you didn't understand something, he'd take the time to explain it to you. But he finally died and they shut it down. 

Now the closest HS is about 30 miles away. The last time I went to purchase merchandise there, my bill came to $300. The owner complained when I went to pay for it with a debit card because he claimed that each time someone used a card it would cost him fifty cents.

I just very politely said to him that be far for me to be the one to cost him money. So I just put my card back in my wallet, left the merchandise sitting on the counter, politely turned around and walked out. Now, I buy everything on line. So through personal experience, I can tell you that if you find a really good hobby shop, keep it. Because not all hobby shops are the bang up, great places to shop that they're cracked up to be. Not even close.  

Routerman


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

That's a fact JZ....I'm lucky to have a few good shops in my area.


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## SuBXeRo (Jun 28, 2011)

I like to order online, good variety and i can compare and take my time doing it. I actually bumped into the daughter of the owner of the hobby shop i was talking about which is ironic since she has been in Vancouver for grad school and she is back in town. I also found all of my trains and i dont have as many cars as i remember haha, 10 years distrorts things i guess. I'll take a picture of it all, i gotta sort through everything anyways. 

All of my stuff should be arriving so it may be a few days before i get to doing anything, hopefully the truck arrives tomorrow, i got soo much stuff to unload.


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

SuBXeRo said:


> I like to order online, good variety and i can compare and take my time doing it. All of my stuff should be arriving so it may be a few days before i get to doing anything, hopefully the truck arrives tomorrow, i got soo much stuff to unload.[/
> 
> 
> SuBXeRo said:
> ...


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

HO is a fun and diverse scale, I personaly model it, and am actualy going to be starting a new layout, since I had to tear down the old one (no comment). The best Ideas I can bring to the party, is to make a small town, street running scheme. Easy, fun, and fits so many eras. As they say, God's Speed.


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