# My first shelf layout



## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

After a recent discussion of shelf layouts, I realized that this would be an ideal way for me to build some test track where I could try out ideas before starting on my full layout.

My goal is to build a small switching layout where I can test the idea of completely automating yard functions, allowing a computer to reliably move cars around to various locations. Bonus points if I can also write an algorithm which allows the locos to sort individual or groups of cars into a specific order without having to dictate every step of the process.

This layout will be built in HO scale as an 'L' shelf, and I believe the yards on each end will provide a variety of situations that I can test. There is also a mainline track (highlighted in gray) which the switchers will need to keep clear, further complicating procedures. Once I started reading in to switching puzzles, I realized that the right side is actually a variation of the classic 'timesaver', so that gives me at least one known puzzle to work with.

I hope to build this with some easy slopes so it's not completely flat, but otherwise plan to keep it fairly simple.










This weekend I took advantage of some spectacular weather and got some 1/2" plywood and 1" foam cut for the shelves. Last night the shelf brackets were mounted on the wall and everything put up in place over my computer desk. For reference, each leg is 12" wide and 72" long, so it really makes a pretty decent sized setup for HO.

I will be using arduinos to build a version of DCC++, and DCC-controlled servos for the turnouts. The 1" foam gives enough room for the servo horn, so I think I can just cut out a notch for each servo. To keep everything easily accessible, I'm going to try and mount all of the servos to the front of the shelf (inside their respective notches) and slide piano wire up to each servo. Then I will cover the whole layout with a final sheet of 1/4" foam to cover the electronics, and a piece of wood trim across the front will hide the equipment but be easily removable for access.

The turnouts are a hand-laid design I came up with to help crunch all the track into a small space. Basically they are each a 15-degree curve of 20.75" radius. I will be running Bachmann 0-6-0T switchers and cars that are 40' or less, so everything should easily handle the tight turns.

Since I have so many details to work out initially (plus building all the turnouts), this will be a fairly slow project to get started, but I'll post pics whenever something interesting happens.


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## QueenoftheGN (Dec 10, 2019)

what software is that?


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## QueenoftheGN (Dec 10, 2019)

looks like it might be trax...


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I use xTrkCad. About the only thing it won't do is 3D views.


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## gardena_shortline (Dec 5, 2019)

That's a great design! How will you handle detection and identification? RFID?


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Eventually I'll add in RFID, but I don't think it will be needed for this layout. Ideally the computer should know where all the cars are at before and after each move. Most of the detection should be simple IR LEDs at the beginning of each spur so the computer can count how many cars go in and out. I also want to start working with occupancy detection based on resistors across the wheels. Basically the more information I have to work with, the more reliably the computer can move things around.

Coupled along with this, I've been working on a design for an ESP32-based loco decoder. Once I have the basic movements worked out from a desktop computer, I want to set up something where there is a posted schedule of what cars need to go where and when, and the locos will perform tasks based on if they are a mainline or a switcher.

I've always had a passion for model trains, but I just love writing computer code and making things happen. Being able to combine the two just makes me feel like a little kid again.


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## gardena_shortline (Dec 5, 2019)

That'll be awesome. I had a great time getting into JMRI and making a panel and setting routes. And now setting up SwitchList on my mac. Your level of programming is beyond me but I can sure appreciate it. Have you heard of McKinley Railway? They have a great youtube channel and they have been automating train movement. They use rfid to identify each coach.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Yeah RFID is fairly straightforward when you have an arduino to read the data. I have some RFID stickers that can even be programmed with specific data, so for example you could put in the road name, car number, and other data, then you wouldn't need a lookup table to figure out what you're looking at. I don't plan to have readers everywhere, but placing one at the head of each yard would allow easy management of what goes in and what comes out, plus it would allow for double-checking the data managed by the IR LEDs.

I haven't played with JMRI at all, but one of these days... That video looks interesting, I'll have to watch it when I get a chance.. Thanks!


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Sounds like an interesting project. 

I write code for a living (mostly business applications, but some SCADA involving RFID), so it's the _last_ thing I want to introduce into a hobby.

Nevertheless, it'll be fun to watch this progress. :thumbsup:


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Yeah I'm certainly an odd duck in that regard. I work with computers and write code all day, then I come home and work on my own servers and projects at night. Or sometimes I work on my servers at work, then write code for work over the weekends. I just have a real passion for computers. 

I've run into one unfortunate issue already. I spent so much time making sure I got my 45-degree angles cut just right so my shelves would fit perfectly... and it never occurred to me that the damn ROOM would be out of square. We have snow and cold temps predicted through the rest of the week, so I have no idea when I'll be able to fix this. Oh well, it's still gonna be awhile before I need to worry about that.

I think for the idea of having the servos at the front of the shelf, I need to find some tubing for the piano wire. Will have to check what the local hobby shop has on hand, at the very least I know they have a supply for RC vehicles that might work.

I also picked up a roll of Woodland Scenics foam bed to use for my mainline, then I'll transition down to putting the yards directly on top of the pink foam. I have almost no experience with the landscaping stuff beyond a bit of work with roadbed gravel, but I want to make sure the mainline on this shelf stands out distinctly.

I've been looking around for a latch I can 3D-print. I'm trying to find something that is relatively flat, but where I could put a couple of them across the joint in the center of the L so I could take the shelf apart, and when it is latched back together the frames are lined up precisely. Although it might be easier to have some kind of alignment dowels buried under the pink foam with just a simple latch on the exposed underside? Yeah, just one more thing I need to really figure out before I start gluing things in place.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Shdwdrgn said:


> I've run into one unfortunate issue already. I spent so much time making sure I got my 45-degree angles cut just right so my shelves would fit perfectly... and it never occurred to me that the damn ROOM would be out of square. We have snow and cold temps predicted through the rest of the week, so I have no idea when I'll be able to fix this. Oh well, it's still gonna be awhile before I need to worry about that.


Once the foam is down you'll never see that joint. But you strike me as the kind of person for which that just won't do. 



Shdwdrgn said:


> I think for the idea of having the servos at the front of the shelf, I need to find some tubing for the piano wire. Will have to check what the local hobby shop has on hand, at the very least I know they have a supply for RC vehicles that might work.


I needed some extra-long wire for my turnout motors and I found some stainless steel orthodontic wire. That stuff is extremely stiff/rigid/tough (it nicked the blades on my Xuron track cutters) and might alleviate the need for tubing. I'll see if I can dig up where I bought it.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Sorry, I guess I forgot to mention that I like to make things portable so they can be shown. You see a lot of huge layouts at train shows, but you rarely see something small that people can actually do in a small space (except for Z-scale of course). I think it would be great to bring something on a smaller scale that shows people an alternative, and obviously not everyone is into endless loops of track.

So yeah, the gap could easily be filled in a permanent layout, but I think it would be better to cut everything to a precise fit. If I take it to a train show nobody is going to notice it isn't exactly square, but I do need a good fit to build around.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

The stainless steel wire I mentioned.

https://www.greatlakesdentaltech.com/stainless-steel-030-wire-14-lengths-round-10-tube_265-035.html


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Cool, thanks. Always good to bookmark another supplier.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

At the train club meeting last night I brought up the issue of my non-square room corner, and after talking with several people a simple idea was suggested... I'll just stick some weather-stripping foam on the back of the boards and let it squish to fill the back gap.

Unfortunately no other progress yet other than laying out some of the electronics on the shelf. I should probably start getting the arduinos programmed at least, but I really need to mock up a servo motor with a turnout and get that part figured out. And I need to decide on the landscape topology so I can determine where I might need to work around the turnout wires.


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## Cousin Eddie (Jan 4, 2019)

Shdwdrgn said:


> At the train club meeting last night I brought up the issue of my non-square room corner, and after talking with several people a simple idea was suggested... I'll just stick some weather-stripping foam on the back of the boards and let it squish to fill the back gap.
> 
> Unfortunately no other progress yet other than laying out some of the electronics on the shelf. I should probably start getting the arduinos programmed at least, but I really need to mock up a servo motor with a turnout and get that part figured out. And I need to decide on the landscape topology so I can determine where I might need to work around the turnout wires.


 If that gap is going to bother you one solution is use an angle measuring tool like in this pic and divide that in 1/2 cut each board at that and when they come together there will be no gap. At least due to the non 90 degree angle anyway.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Whew, two pages in and I haven't even posted pics yet. Well there's not really much to look at, but here's what I have...



















So as a recap, each leg is 6' long at the back edge, and this will be in HO scale. The short length of foam on top of the second picture is where I will be testing out setting up a servo to run a turnout. The hobby shop has this nice stiff black tubing (about 1/8" diameter) which is used to hold RC antenna wires. I plan to put the servos along the front edge of the layout so they are easily accessible, then run some small piano wire through the tubing and back to each turnout. Of course the servo horn moves much more than the throw of the turnout points, so my idea is to put a 90-degree elbow in the piano wire where it exist the tubing. With about 1" of wire after the bend I think it should give enough flex to take up the slack from the servo movement, and do a good job of pinning the points in each position. I picked up some foam board last weekend, and plan to use that to cover the tubing and servo, and leave a slot for the end of the piano wire to come through and move the turnout points.

I hit ebay last night and today to pick up a 15VDC power supply and a 5V voltage regulator. I have an ESP32 flashed as a DCC++ base station, and an arduino nano flashed as a decoder for the turnout servos. I will probably add another arduino as an S88 module to pick up various IR LEDs for sensing when cars get to the ends of the sidings. The 5V regulator will be to run the ESP32 and arduinos.

Yeah, there's a lot of pieces in play right now, but the biggest challenge is figuring out the servo activation of the turnouts, and I need the DCC system up and running to work on that. Still a lot of work to go before I can even think about running a loco on it!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Yesterday I finished building the first turnout for the shelf, and I'm ready to test how it works under servo control. Problem is, I don't have any electronics! No worries, I have some items already flashed and ready to hook up.

I ran into a problem almost right away. I ordered a 15V 3A power pack off ebay which arrived earlier this week. Feels awfully light weight, and when I plugged it in, the meter briefly read about half a volt and then started dropping towards zero. Yeah this one is crap. I pulled the power off my loop layout and it works just fine. I had a small circuit board I started previously, cut to roughly the same size as my ESP32 board and set up with header pins so the ESP can be plugged in and removed. This board holds a transistor and a couple resistors, a 2-pin header for power, and a 5-pin socket which feeds the control wires to the H-bridge. All together this creates my DCC++ command station.










I have a couple pieces of flex track laid on the shelf and was able to run the loco back and forth without any problems. Good deal, everything works! Now I just need to hook up an arduino nano to run the servos.

I have some 0.032" piano wire to control the turnout points. I bent some up and determined that the maximum throw of the servo will be about 3/8". With a 1" elbow on the end of the piano wire, it allows plenty of flex to move through the full servo swing without stressing the turnout. This springiness also helps make sure the points seat into position, so I think it's going to work very well.

So that's about it for today. I need to get the turnout and servo temporarily mounted, then I can test the operation through DCC. Once I know for sure the concept will work, I can actually start laying down foam and track. (Oh... I'm gonna need to order some track!)


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

More progress... I got an arduino set up for S88 last night and it successfully registers when I short the inputs to ground. Now I need to play with some IR LEDs and block detectors. Just putting an IR sensor at the end of every track will require 12 sensors already, but it would help to have a few others in place. The arduino can handle 16 inputs each, so I'll need at least two for the S88 network.

I got two boxes of flex track ordered! Guess I better get to work building turnouts now so I can start laying down track once the boxes arrive.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I have two different circuits for the IR sensors now -- one is normally-open and the other is normally-closed (meaning the first triggers when something breaks the beam and the second triggers when the beam is seen). I have one set up at each end of the track and wrote a bit of PHP code that simply monitors the command-station output (essentially it is the JMRI code) to stop and reverse the loco when it gets to each sensor.

Within the code I am trying to set up a simple structure that reacts to the sensors being triggered. I'm pretty sure there is something similar in JMRI, but this is going to be the basis for my own code to perform complex operations automatically, even though what I have now could potentially be built into something that appears pretty complex. I'm hoping to make my code a bit more reactive -- for example if there is an IR sensor over a decoupler, I want to tell the train to back up until 3 cars have passed, stop and pull forward, and if the sensor gets triggered again then the cars did not decouple and the operation needs to be tried again.

There are still a couple more things I want to try before I get started laying track (and get back to building turnouts)... I need to test two other sensor types: a magnetic reed switch, and a track occupancy detector. And I have a sensor for RFID stickers that I want to try and read.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Wow, what an ambitious project you have going on here! I’m floored that you’re planning to write all this software yourself. I’ve been using TrainController software on my layout and it seems overwhelming to me to try to replace it. I’d love to have you give a bit of explanation about your software as you develop it. Things like what data structures you’re using and for what purpose, how the logic works, etc. Just basic summaries, I’m not asking you to explain it in detail. I think those of us that have some computer programming experience would find it fascinating.

- Mark


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

The shelf is actually a great test-bed for what I have planned for my full layout. To summarize, I really love fully-automated devices, but when it simply has to follow the exact same motions over and over again it gets boring to watch. The rough overview of my goals are to build a system where each loco is given a task to fulfill. Switchers move the cars for loading and unloading, and prep a string for pickup. Mainline locos pick up the strings and take them from town to town.

Now sure, I can program a set routine for each loco, but again that's just boring. So to begin with, I'll throw in some random factors. A car didn't get unloaded in time, so it'll have to be rescheduled for tomorrow's pick-up. A loco stalled while climbing the mountain, so it fouls one of the mainlines while waiting for a helper loco, causing reschedules or using alternate routes. Get the idea?

Having a short train isn't too difficult to work around. The software just needs to realize that only two cars are being dropped at a siding instead of three. But rerouting and rescheduling on the fly... that's where the real meat of the software will be. Part of the task is to map out the entire layout, so if one route is blocked, an alternate route can be selected. But wait, if another train is already scheduled on that route, can I slip in around it? There will also be priorities for each train, so a passenger train looking for an alternate route could supersede a freight train. How do we calculate priorities? Well someone on this forum posed an interested question last year regarding if anyone worked with budgets on their layout, calculating the cost of running a train per the weight and value of the loads. It made me think that if I could have lookup tables of the dry and loaded weights of each type of car (plus or minus some randomness of course), and the value of each load per ton, and throw in a generic running cost for the loco to pull the train... now you've got something that allows you to calculate a general cost/value of each train, and a way to automatically prioritize who gets to use the available mainlines.

There are a few more random variables that can be tossed in. For example, if I have a string of 10 hoppers with the same load, but I only need to drop off three at the first industry, which three do I drop? I could take the first ones after the loco, I could take the last ones before the caboose, or I could slice three from the middle. This will ensure cars get mixed up so you don't always see exactly the same hopper right behind the loco. Another way to mix them up is to have industries with varying needs. The lumber mill needs 5 flats today, but a big order requires 8 flats tomorrow.

So to begin with, the software needs to always know where every loco is at. Between a combination of block detectors, IR sensors, and RFID tag readers, I hope to keep track of everything. And I need good block control with trains respecting the signals. Then I need sensors for when cars are approaching the end of a siding, and sensors over the decoupling magnets to verify the cars were released. The RFID readers can also verify the string of cars leaving a yard match the itinerary.

If you've followed so far, you can see where a tight shelf switching layout with a couple active switchers sorting cars can provide a multitude of situations to test out a large number of the ideas above. So HOW am I going to do it? Good question!  Piece by piece, I'll start with the basics of moving trains around and go from there. Various pieces will need different data structures, some parts might be handled by a server while others are done in arduinos. I might model the structure of what cars are going where after the various types a yard card systems that people have described, but another piece may have to be designed from the ground up. It's gonna be a wild ride...


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Sounds like you've been thinking about this for quite some time. I look forward to following your progress.

I agree with you that having automated schedules without any randomness can be boring. I've set up some randomness on my layout by using probabilities to determine which schedules will be run next. This has worked out fairly well for me, but I've added software virtual buttons to my control panel to be able to force certain actions to occur next. For example, my passenger train doesn't stop at the station every time in comes around the layout. There is a probability that it should stop that increases each time it doesn't stop. Even so, I added a virtual button to force a stop since sometimes when I have guests, I want to show them the train stopping at the station and I don't want to wait for it to happen randomly. Just something to think about.

One other issue that I haven't really solved to my satisfaction is how to avoid deadlock situations when running multiple trains. You may run across this as well. I've got a single mainline with a few passing sidings. I like to be able to run trains both clockwise and counter clockwise on my layout. Running 2 trains is generally not a problem, but when 3 are running, I would get occasional deadlocks. The solution in TrainController is to mark certain blocks as "critical", meaning trains must be able to pass through that block and on to the next before it can be reserved. So all my single track mainline blocks are all marked critical to ensure a train can pass through them to at least one passing track. Then also having the automated scheduler look ahead and reserve a few block ahead allows me to avoid deadlocks, but it also seems too inefficient and causes unwanted spacing and delays for some trains. Maybe that's the best that can be done, but I am hoping to get better efficiency. Anyway, something else for you to think about if you haven't already.

- Mark


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I like that idea of forcing an action to happen, will have to keep it in mind! And yeah, I've been working out the idea in my head for a few years now.

The layout I'm designing is dual-gauge and is basically a point-to-point with reverse loops on each end. There are essentially three mainlines though, one of each gauge, and one dual-gauge line, so that helps provide alternate routes, or in some cases keeping a train on its own gauge so other lines aren't blocked. There's still plenty of opportunity for lines to get deadlocked so my scheduling system will have to keep track of where all the trains are expected to be and whether a passing siding is available when trains are moving in opposite directions. For example, the narrow gauge line through the mountains doesn't have a passing siding, so if two trains are going in opposite directions then the entire mainline between cities would have to be considered a single block, but for two trains going in the same direction, regular signalling between blocks would work just fine. I also have to consider train loading -- the mountain pass is fairly steep at around a 2.5% grade, so an unloaded hopper train might be able to make the trip uphill, but a loaded train will need to be double-headed, and if a second loco isn't available then that train would only be able to use the tunnel and have no alternate paths available. There's just so many possibilities that I will need to account for in the mapping and scheduling programs...


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been playing more with my code to run the train back and forth. The latest code is working pretty smooth. Basically I set up an array that lists out all of the sensors a train should go through and what to do at each of those sensors (even if the action is 'nothing'). I can immediately change the speed or add a timer to do something a few seconds later. I also am keeping a record of the amount of time needed to travel between sensors, and the code will give a countdown of the expected time to reach each sensor, or tell me if the train is running late. This information could be used to indicate a problem with a train or have a train slow down before reaching a station.

One more little detail I need to add to the program...  When the train gets to either end of the track it stops at that sensor instead of going through it, so reaching the sensor triggers an action, but then when the train pulls out again the sensor responds again once it is cleared (and thus starts the timer towards the next sensor). The sensors in the middle of the track, where the train always passed through completely, only respond when the train first reaches that sensor (stopping the first timer and starting a new one). Now the problem is that the apparent distance between sensors can be larger or smaller depending on how many cars the loco is pulling. What I need to do now is create a small inventory of the cars on the layout, including the length of each car, and then add that information so the length of the train can be calculated. That should allow making adjustments in the expect timings so the code knows a longer train will reach the next sensor sooner when leaving a siding. (Hope that makes sense, it's still too early here.)

I also noticed that when I first start the train running, it runs slow and I get a few warnings about the train being late to the next sensor. I guess we all need a warm-up period in the mornings. 









I also received the box of flex track this week. It'll still be a bit before I'm ready to begin laying it (still have to make a bunch of turnouts) but at least I pretty much have all my supplies on hand now.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've started building turnouts and hopefully can begin laying the mainline soon. Today I finished up the four turnouts needed for the mainline on the right leg of the shelf, and this coming week I'll try to build the three turnouts needed for the left leg. Once that is all done I should be able to lay about 11 feet on continuous track, plus two sidings. That will give me a bit of track to play with while I work on the last seven turnouts.

There will be a short section of straight track connecting these two assemblies together. Then one end will continue off the edge of the shelf and the other end goes into a curve at the corner of the 'L' shelf.









I've seen cables welded across joints in tracks and thought I could use that idea to attach sections of flex track together. It's probably not prototypical for the turn of the century, but it does make a nice strong joint and ensures electrical continuity.









A generous dab of flux paste helped to get a good solder joint without completely melting the plastic ties. The track will get finished off with some ultra-flat earth brown spray paint, then some rust colors brushed onto the side of the rails. The remaining ties will be filled in with basswood. With three different materials used for the ties, I'm hoping the base coat of paint will blend them all together.

I think the next thing I need to do is get the slots cut out for the turnout servos, and start prepping the tubing and piano wire control wires. I received an order of ten servos in the mail today so I believe I have nearly everything on hand to build the turnouts, complete the track work, and lay down most of the wiring. After I get a little further along I can see what connectors I'll be needing to join the wiring on both halves of the shelf and I can get those ordered.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Looks great! Building turnouts is something I’ve never tried, so I’m always amazed at others ability to do so.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Nice work!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@Mark VerMurlen -- They're actually not too complex, just time-consuming. You do need to have a little experience with soldering so you can get the rails to stick well to the PCB ties. I use a regular pair of pliers to make the bends for the guard rails, and the curves are done by hand. Then you have to grind tapers to put together the two rails for the frog, and of course reduce the points into a fine tip. For that I use some small hobby files and a dremel. I spend by far the most time working on the points so I get a nice smooth alignment. Like most things, the first one or two you make are going to be crap, but then once you see how it all works out and you get everything aligned, you start getting really nice results.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Did you use your 3d printed fixture to make these?


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I did!  I'm actually thinking of writing something new to make a block that holds the rails at the right angles for grinding the frog. And maybe one of these days I'll get back to the jig itself -- I'm thinking I just need to rewrite the whole thing again. I have a better idea for performing the calculations but it'll take some work.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I use a 1" belt sander to make the frogs, but for the points I've been using proto87 points. No filing and the point nestles right up to the rail, with no notch on the rail either! I tried their frogs, but they really need a resistance soldering machine, which I don't have. Here's a couple of close up os the proto87 frog. The throbar is actuated by a SwitchMaster motor and you can just see the wire protruding up in the middle of the throbar.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I don't understand... Your pictures seem to show a huge amount of point sticking out from the edge of the stock rails, like about half the width of the full rail head? How do the train wheels keep from snagging on that?


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

One thing about working on a shelf is that spacing can be tight. I have a spot on the mainline where two turnouts are stacked immediately after each other. I started looking at this spot last night and checking the alignment. I made a slight adjustment so the ties would still be neatly in line, and this morning I started building both of them together as a single unit. So far so good!  The diverging route on the left will lead into a small ladder yard, and the right side will begin a run-around and branch to a couple industrial sidings. I'm expecting to finish the points on these turnouts tomorrow, then I only have a single turnout left to complete for the mainline.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

It is a macro photo and while it looks big, the point is milled to fit right to the rail. I have more problems with flange removal and filed down rail for the points than the milled point. It really fits neatly to the code83 ME rail and does not get "Picked". You might get a set from the Proto87 store (and watch their turnout builds). I like my hand build frogs, but the Proto87 points are much simpler to use.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

🌈 I only want to add:
I can never understand this idea of making a 'test layout' before making the full layout; especially when one has the skills you already have...Your switch/turnout construction is A1 which tells me you know all that one needs to construct a great layout already...
If you have the space and the resources now, why not start the full size RR now, but perhaps by employing your test design as the starting point on an already built (assuming open grid, L girder, or, cookie cutter) full bench work ?
IE. Why build this nice design you have now, only to eventually dismantle it ?


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

In my case, there was no room for any substantial RR. Thus a "test" layout to get something useful for DCC seemed appropriate. The test layout has 2 levels on one side and 2 mainlines, thus there is interaction between mainlines and switch spurs on both "straight" sections. I have routes programed into the DS64's that run the turnouts, so there was lots to learn, besides trying different construction techniques. Most of all I like the thinking that goes into just determining what and how to build, so now that I have room I think i'm better prepared with what I want and like to have in an around the room layout.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@telltale -- the two combined turnouts above will make #11 and #12 of all the turnouts I've ever made, so I don't have a huge amount of experience at the art. Even on this one I just threw away a point I was working on because it simply wasn't turning out quite right and I was afraid it would cause trouble down the road. I've done enough to make them look good now, but I need to put something in use to make sure I won't have any long-term issues. However I thank you for the kind words!

I also have almost no experience with landscaping, so this will be my first chance to try working with rivers, bridges, rocks, and roads. Soldering rails together is precision work, which I'm good at. Creating landscaping is more free-form, which I'm not so good at.

As for dismantling it later on... Not a chance! This is semi-permanently installed above my computer workbench so I can work on the programming, but I'm also trying to design it to be broken down so I can take it to train shows. I've never actually seen a shelf layout at a train show and I think it would be interesting to others to see the possibilities in smaller layouts. Also the main layout will be on a winch in the garage, and thus probably cold in the Winter, so the shelf will give me something else to play with during that time.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Whew! I finally finished that double-turnout yesterday. I have one more easy (single) turnout to build, then I'll be ready to lay the mainline.

I've been thinking about how exactly I want to layer the shelf. I have 7/16" plywood, then 1" foam. I plan to put a sheet of foam board on top of that (about 3/16" thick) and start building the track on top of that. However, the control rods for the turnout will go between the two layers of foam and there will likely be some 'fiddling' to get it all working smoothly. I think maybe some cheap double-sided tape might be the answer so I can easily remove the foam board, then use something more durable once I know it's all working right.

The foam board comes in 30" lengths. I think I'll connect it all together with masking tape so I don't lose my alignment between pieces or between the turnout rods. It will also make a lighter piece to take outside for spray-painting the base colors. I probably won't start on the scenery until I'm done with all the controls though.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

There's been some ups and down this past week. The hard drive on my desktop just up and stopped working, so I've been recovering everything from another computer I haven't used in three years. Lost a lot of information but I'm back up and running again.

I finished the last mainline turnout and have gotten started on prepping for laying the track. As I was thinking before, I picked up a small spray bottle and made a mixture of white glue and water. It's been working good enough, but I'm having a LOT of trouble with the foam board warping. I've been pressing it on a table while the glue dries, but once I take it out and expose it to the air the board starts curling up again. I've been experimenting with towels and other ways to control the moisture, and I think I'm keeping it square enough. With all the issues, I decided to create some T-nuts on the 3D printer that I can embed right into the foam board and scenery, but will hold the foam board tight to the pink foam. This gives me an easy way to pull off the top layer as I work on the electronics and sensors.

No pics yet, but I should have the plans for the first side glued down soon, then I can start figuring out where all the servos will sit and cut the slots for them in the pink foam. I was also thinking about using lever-style micro-switches to juice the turnout frogs. I could glue the switches on the bottom side of the foam board, just under each turnout, so the piano wire hits the switch as it moves the points. Still so much to do before I even start laying the track.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Wow, three weeks since the last update. Too many other things getting in the way, plus I've been working with the DCC++ESP32 code to try and clear up some bugs.

Meanwhile, I finally finished gluing down the printouts on the first half of the shelf last night. I'm ready to start laying down some roadbed for the mainline and transitioning down to the base level for the sidings.









A quick detail here... The foamboard comes in lengths of 30" so I needed 2.5 pieces to create my full 6ft length. I used masking tape on the back side to attach the pieces of foamboard to each other, and on the front side I adjusted my printouts to glue a sheet across each joint. This holds them together well enough for working on.

The next step is drilling the holes for the T-nuts so that I can maintain the alignment between the foamboard and the pink foam. I'm going to use 1-2 additional layers of foamboard to build up some areas, and I'm thinking about using foamboard to create my roadbed since both the cork and foam roadbed I have are quite a bit wider than the track and I don't have a lot of free space to play with on this shelf.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

It turns out making roadbed from the foamboard is pretty easy (once you get your measurements nailed down). Basically I just lay a straightedge on the foam and hold a razor blade at an angle while cutting. It's not machine-perfect, which may actually help make it look more realistic. I took some pics to post what it looks like, but unfortunately it's all white-on-white and the details were washed out in the images so you couldn't really see what was happening. Oh well, it will stand out better once I start getting paint on everything.

So at the moment I'm working on creating a foamboard roadbed for the mainline, plus I'll add or remove more foam to provide some minor altitude adjustments for the various sidings.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

After it's ballasted you won't see it anyway.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Exactly! I'm just trying to get the rough shape to support the track. I ran into a little trouble with where the mainline curves around in the corner of the shelf. Ended up grabbing some discarded printouts and cutting out the track for that area which I glued to a larger piece of foamboard. Then I free-hand cut the angled edges and was able to line it up with the printouts already glued down.

Hopefully I can get some of the larger pieces cut out today as well. I wish I had something that was half the thickness of the foamboard, but I'll make do with what I have and use a sanding block to taper the transitions.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been working with the author of the ESP32 Command Station, which is a wifi-enabled offshoot of DCC++. He's getting close to a new major release which will include LCC functionality. I wanted a more mobile-friendly interface that adapted to cell phones and tablets, so I volunteered to write a whole new interface. This has consumed the past month of my free time, but we've been able to track down and fix a number of bugs in the DCC functions and nearly have everything working now.

I've been staring at my shelf for the past week, wanting to get back to finishing the foam work so I can tack down the track and start getting some wiring and turnout motors in place. Apparently I failed to post pictures of the initial roadbed work in my last posts, so here's what the mainline looks like...









It doesn't looks like much, but it's the same foamboard as I used for the base, with the sides cut at an angle using a box cutter. Easy to work with and I can put it in place with watered-down white glue.

So today I started something a little tougher... the transitions from the high mainline down to the ground level. I had an idea on how to do this, it just took a couple tries to get the hang of it. Basically I cut out the foam in the shape I needed, including the tapered sides, then using a small board to hold the foam straight I held it to the bottom side of a small belt sander. This allowed me to get a perfectly flat transition area, then I used a sanding block to smooth down a curve at the top of the 'hill' so I didn't have a sudden change in grade. Laying a piece of flex track over it allowed me to check how it turned out. There is no smooth curve at the bottom of the grade but when I add ballast it will fill in underneath the track.










Since everything is white-on-white it's really hard to get pictures showing the details, but you should be able to get the idea here. The grade drops about 3/16" in 6" which works well for the limited space of the shelf. I have the foam in place under both of the turnouts pictured, so now I just need to cut the slots for the throwbar rods and then I think I'll be ready to add in the missing ties and glue down this first section of track.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

It didn't take much to add in the ties for these two turnouts this morning, and the rest of the connected track wil use the ties on the flex track.









Now that the glue has had a few hours to dry, I hit this section with a quick (light) shot of rust-o-leum ultra-flat earth brown. I figured the track would block the paint reaching parts of these new ties, so this way I ensure everything is covered.









I'll head up to the hardware store in a bit to grab a tube of brown caulking, and by then the paint should be dry enough that I can attach the turnouts.

The plan from this point will be to get all of the rest of the track built in a similar manner. Once track power is wired up and the turnout motors are working, I'll go back and hit all of the track with the same flat brown paint. It makes a good base color for the ties and sides of the rail, then I can use a brush to add rust color to the rails.

I have another pair of turnouts already built for the mainline on this half of the shelf, so once this first section of track has been glued down I can cut the flex track spanning to the next turnout, and then start setting the wood ties for them. Before I glue that pair of turnouts in place, though, I need to build one more turnout. Between the next pair and the turnouts shown above, there is a run-around siding, and I need to assemble all of the track in progressive order.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Just about finished the next turnout, it only needs the throwbar and guard rails added in. It's hard to tell from this angle but the turnout itself has a short grade under (dropping from the 3/16" height of the mainline down to the board level). According to the software that comes out to about a 3% grade but it's over such a short distance that I don't think it will matter.









It also occurred to me that I need to start adding in insulated rail joiners so I can break up all this yard work into small blocks. Initially I'll just wire everything together but the wiring will give me the opportunity to play with block detection later on.

I also made up a piece of piano wire to test the control of turnout points. As I mentioned before, the tubing will be glued into the pink foam and will prevent the wire for flexing along the length. The 90-degree bend is made 3/4" from the end that goes into the throwbar, and allows some flex so the servo motor can move further than the throwbar without damaging anything. Once the pieces are fixed in place I can adjust the throw of the servo so it only moves slightly further than needed and provides a little springiness to make sure the points are fully seated in place.









I also picked up some wire from the hardware store for hooking the frogs to micro lever switches. The switches will simply connect the frog to one rail or the other, and will be activated by the piano wire pressing against them. The wire is a bit heavier than I need (20awg) and is solid instead of stranded, but I didn't want to wait 2 months for some ribbon cable to come from China.

So I think I'm ready to glue down the first pair of turnouts, then cut the flex track spanning to the next pair and I can start adding the filler ties around those. I've spent a LOT of time trying to work out how do accomplish various aspects of this build but now most of that is done and the build portion should move right along.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

It's going to be an interesting build indeed.
The prelude sure was.
Great to see it get to this point.
Good luck with it all and keep posting progress.

Magic


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Thanks for that! I think the biggest mistake I've made so far is not anticipating the foamboard would warp from gluing on the printouts, and I'm still not really sure how to prevent that or correct it. I've tried spraying it down with water and then weighing down the edges while it dried again. The only other idea I have to to wet a washcloth to lay over it and extend the drying process overnight. Anyway, I'm hoping to get the first chunk of track glued down today and work on the ties for the next section tomorrow. Just with the turnouts that are completed I should be able to finish laying the mainline on this half of the shelf, plus two sidings and the run-around track. so that will be a fair amount of usable track to start playing with.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well I got those turnouts glued down and this morning added my first siding. I wanted this one to be really low, like it's been there and neglected forever but still in use. I cut down the top foam so the ties are actually sitting level with the rest of the ground. It should be enough that some of the ties will show through the 'dirt' but a lot will be hidden.

Here you can see where I tapered down the slope from the mainline. I used a dremel to take out most of the material, then used the edge of a foam sanding block to smooth it out and try to flatted the slope.









And here's the result...









I'm still debating if I want to put a dirt pile at the end of this track, or just leave it bare. I need to get a feed wire soldered on to this and the mainline, then I should be able to check that power is flowing through as I add more track.

Time to get started on the wood ties to fill under the next pair of turnouts!


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Shdwdrgn said:


> I wanted this one to be really low, like it's been there and neglected forever but still in use. I cut down the top foam so the ties are actually sitting level with the rest of the ground. It should be enough that some of the ties will show through the 'dirt' but a lot will be hidden.


Interesting idea. Some prototype pics for ya.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Yes!!! That's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of! In fact that last pics gives me an idea for having some of the ballast washing downhill from the mainline. I've never seen a shot like that where so much ballast has washed over that it's almost to the top of the rail. That'll be great to model.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well I finished up a large chunk of track today. The current section was three interconnected turnouts, with two of them facing track that had to be aligned simultaneously. Yesterday I finished up the wood filler ties and got them painted so I was ready to start gluing everything in place this morning. The track segments have been soldered together and wires are hanging everywhere. This allowed me to add another siding (completed), and I'm ready to add the last short length of mainline track.

I have two big things I need to work on next... First off is removing all the warps in the foamboard so all the track sits level. I've been having a bit of luck putting materials underneath the foam, spraying the top side with water, weighing it down and letting it dry. This gives it an inverse curve against the current bend, and when I remove the weights it seems to be pretty level.

The other thing is that it's time to get started setting up the servo motors. I need to cut slots in the base pink foam and mount the servos, then start building the connecting rods. This also means getting the holes drilled for the T-nuts to align the pink foam and foam board together (and that will also help control the warping of the foam board). Gonna take a lot of work to get these steps done, but once I have it worked out then I'll be to a point where I can finally run a loco and control some turnouts on the shelf.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Some more good progress today... I have the last leg of the mainline attached, and I got all f the T-nuts mounted to hold the layers together. An advantage of having the T-nuts in place now is that it creates several fixed points (every 15 inches) where the foamboard cannot warp. I've been working against these points with the water bottle and some weights to flatten out the foamboard and I'm making good progress. The majority of the warps I see now are due to wires tucked up underneath.

I'm running into a problem with using superglue to hold down the track... it's just too brittle and it's coming loose as easily as the caulking was. I'm not sure what to try next, maybe I'll give the caulk another shot.

With the mainline complete, I decided to hook up the wires to my DCC controller. I was able to move the loco around the various tracks, even though I don't have anything holding the turnout points in position yet. Still, it was great to finally see some life!

I'm having trouble with the camera, will try to figure out the problem so I can post another progress shot over the weekend.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Much better progress with the caulk today! This time I used a putty knife to spread the beads flat, and the track seemed to adhere much better. I was able to get the rest of the track tacked down, and took some time to shave the foam a bit to smooth out the transitions.

So here's the section of track I've been finishing up this week...










And here's the overview of what's done so far...









The brown paint makes it hard to get a good picture, but that's what I've got so far. There's somewhere around 10 feet of runnable track already which will let me give the loco a bit of a run. Now I'm ready to start working on those servo motors, hope to at least start marking out their positions tonight.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Looking good!


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Congrats on the progress! It’s starting to take shape!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Thanks, and yes, it's beginning to look like something. Like I mentioned before, once I get the servos figured out and have the turnouts operational then I should be able to pick up some speed and just settle in to building things. It's just figuring out all the little details that's slowing me down. And when I get to working on scenery my current progress is going to seem like a rabbit race in comparison.  But at least I have a lot of supplies on hand already for that part.

Speaking of supplies, I can't believe how far I'm getting with my first pack of bare rail for building turnouts. I've built at least 14 turnouts, including several dual-gauge, and still have half the pack remaining. So at least 25 turnouts for about $75 in supplies, and it only costs me a dollar each to motorize them via DCC. Quite the bargain!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I managed to get a better picture with some trains in place...


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

The first turnout control rod is in place. First a shaped the piano wire. The angled bit on the left flexes so the wire can move further than the points and provides some spring action to better seat the points. I cut a slot in the foamboard for the tubing and used the caulk to stick it down, but it didn't stick very well. I roughed up the tubing with some sandpaper and glued it again, and this time it seems better.

The switch took the longest. First I had to find just the right position so the switch clicks just before the points seat in one direction. Since the control wire sits right on top of the foamboard I had to cut a hole for the switch to sit in. I also used a triangle file to cut a V-notch in the end of the level to keep the wire in place, and I added a slight bend to the level to allow extra clearance for the control wire movement. The switch was also glued down using the caulk, and I will add more around it once the wires have been soldered on. The only purpose for this switch is to provide power to the frog.

Overall the servo will move the control wire up to 3/8" while the points only move about 3/32". Once I have the DCC decoder hooked up I can fine-tune the movement of the servo so it only travels as far as needed for operations. This will also allow me to adjust each servo independently since there will be variations in the positional assembly of each turnout and servo.










Next up, cutting the slot in the pink foam and mounting the servo!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well the servo motor control was a success! I cut out a hole in the pink foam and got the servo mounted to the board using a 3D-printed mounting bracket. The slots allow for a little adjustment in the position when I screw it down. The arduino code allows changing the settings for each servo individually (just like setting a CV for a loco decoder) to further fine-tune the exact position so I can really dial it in. Since the servo is attached to the plywood and the turnout is attached to the foamboard the alignment on the material layers on the shelf are pretty critical, which is one of the reasons for the T-nut arrangement.










This is just a standard SG-90 servo. Tiny, super cheap, and easy to get. The control wire goes in the hole closest to the center point as I need very little movement for this assembly. I'll probably cut off most of the horn later on. So the arrangement is fairly simple, I just need to start cutting tubing and piano wire for the other four existing turnouts, glue the tubing in place, set the switches in position, and get it all hooked up.

I ran into one issue with the code -- it doesn't provide a method to turn the positions around. So in the case of this first turnout, when I set it to DCC position 0 it is actually pointing to the diverging route. What I need to do is update the code so I can set position 1 at a lower servo angle than position 0, then I'll be able to set up all of the servos so that position 0 is always the main route and position 1 is always the diverging route. Note that I could have mechanically arranged this by flipping the servo around so the control wire was on the right side, however there is going to be another servo to the left of this one, so close that I will probably just cut one large hole for both of them, so repositioning the servo wasn't an option in this case. Being able to do it in software will provide a lot more freedom for where things are positioned.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Hmm I missed an update... over the weekend I finished setting up the other four servos on the track. It seems I didn't allow for quite enough adjustment space on the servos, so some of them don't throw the points far enough in one direction. I should be able to drill a second screw hole to reposition the servos though. I can make it work by moving the control rods to another hole on the servo horns, but I'd prefer to keep them in the closest hole so a wild signal doesn't push the control rods further than the amount of free play I created.

Today I'm working on that issue with the foamboard warping. I'm compensating by gluing another sheet of paper to the back side, and giving the foamboard a slight bend in the opposite direction while the glue dries. The first area I tested actually seems to have a large reverse bend now, but I should be able to bring that back flat again. So I'm working on another area where I had a bad warp, and this time I'm weighing the foamboard down flat while the glue dries to see if it holds _that_ position. Overall it looks promising that I'll be able to bring the whole thing back perfectly flat again.

Once I have the foamboard straightened out, I plan to add a second layer of strips of foamboard to the bottom to provide a gap for the wiring and switches. This will also ensure the turnout control rods don't bind up from getting pinched between layers of foam.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Very interesting build. 

Thanks for bringing us along.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

After all that time yesterday waiting for the glue to dry, it occurred to me to try a difference experiment. All the curling of the foamboard happens when I get the top side wet, so what happens if I just spray the bottom with a quick mist and let it sit overnight? Well presto, it caused the foamboard to curl in the opposite direction and counter the warp. Sheesh! I should have thought of that earlier.

So today I'll get started adding foam strips to the bottom to provide the gap for the wiring and turnout controls. One thing I'm worried about is that this will cause the servo motors to be even more out of alignment, so I'm just going to drill a second set of screw holes for all of them and we'll see how it goes.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

All right, now we're cookin'! I added strips of foam to provide a gap and I have the top layer pretty well flattened out now. While things were drying I went ahead and drilled the new screw holes for the servos. Then I updated Geoff Bunza's arduino code to allow me to flip the direction of the servos. Basically the original code allowed me to set a start and stop point for each servo to move, but it required the '0' position to be a smaller number than the '1' position. However in my mind it makes a lot more sense if I can set each servo so that the '0' position is the standard route, and '1' is the diverging route, but the physical position of the servos don't always lend themselves to working this way. Well a bit of work on the code and now I'm able to set the '1' position to a lower number when needed, so now all of my turnouts will always have position '0' as the main route. Is that enough 1's and 0's for ya? 










Not a very exciting picture, but you can see the foam strips that come to the front, and the resulting gap between them. The arduino code lets me set the start and stop positions of the servos just like setting a CV for a loco, so I was able to fine-tune the movement for each so the points have some light pressure once they're seated in each position. It's a little too much for cars, but the locos can move through the points against the spring action.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but I've been trying to think of an idea to contain the wiring at the front of the shelf, and I think I finally have it. With the addition of the new layer of foam, the thickness of all the layers is almost identical to the diameter of a standard piece of 1-1/2" PVC pipe. If I cut some pipe in half I can hinge it from the bottom of the shelf, and I'll have a hollow container for the wires, and when it is pinned up in place the pipe will make a nice front face. The goal is to make everything completely self-contained so there is no visible wiring or electronics.

So now that I have the servos working smoothly, I'll go back and finish the wiring for the frogs. I have switches and wires already in place, so it's just a matter of soldering the wires on. Then I think it will be time to build the last two turnouts on this half so I can finish laying the track and put down some paint.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Sounds like you're making some pretty good progress.

Magic


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been thinking about a backdrop for awhile now and how I might make something myself. Digging around online, you can find a number of nice panoramic pictures featuring different types of landscape, and I have a decent color laser printer, so I thought I would see what I could do. The first challenge was finding a suitable image to work with. I won't paste the exact image here because I'm sure there are copyright issues with posting someone else's work on a public forum, however my selection has a nice background mountain range with just a little bit of flatland in front. More importantly, this is a full 360-degree shot which means I could repeat it end-to-end if I needed more length, and it's at a high enough resolution that I could get a fairly decent printout from it.

So on to the boring details... The original image is 13244 x 1000 pixels. My shelf is 144 inches in length, and I have room for 8 inches of image. Printing at a resolution of 100 pixels per inch gives a nicely detailed print, so my target full image size would be 14400 x 800 pixels, which is pretty close to the original. The mountains shown are also quite a bit sharper than what I have locally, which works out great here. By stretching the length slightly, and squashing the height a bit to fit my required size, the resulting mountains are a _very_ close match to what I see in the Colorado Rockies!

The goal is to mount the printouts on the same foamboard I've been using for the base, however my previous experience with watered-down Elmers glue proved that this would be disastrous for the printouts. During our trip to the store today I checked out the craft isle and found Elmers Craft Bond spray adhesive -- made specifically for lightweight material like paper, and it has the option of letting the adhesive get tacky for a few minutes before laying down your paper, so if I made a mistake I can peel the page off and try lining it up again. I cut some foamboard to 9-7/8" so the bottom of it will line up with the bottom of the plywood shelf, trimmed up a couple printed pages to remove the white borders, then used a pencil to mark a grid where each page would lay on the foamboard. Then I used some scrap paper to frame in the edges of where the first page would sit (I didn't want to get adhesive anywhere except that spot), sprayed the area and let it dry for a few minutes, then lined up the page. I used a soft cloth to press the page down into the adhesive, then did the same process for the second printout. (Now that I think about it, it would make a lot more sense to spray the back of the paper... I'll have to try that with the next page.)










You can see the seam between the pages because the edges aren't quite stuck down completely. I'll have to figure out some kind of liquid glue I can use that will seep under the edges and finish sealing the printouts in place, but otherwise I think it came out pretty great for something that will only cost about $10 in materials for the entire backdrop. I also think if I can closely match the colors, a bit of dry-brushing could make the seams disappear, plus I want to paint the edges of the foamboard sky-blue to hide the stark white.

I can't wait to see how it looks after I get the base of the shelf painted with the various browns and start adding grasses and bushes to hide the transition to the backdrop!


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Looks great!

Wallpaper seam sealer?


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well I messed around with it a bit, and messed it up, so I just pulled the pages off and started over. I was also running into a problem that the new paper cutter isn't perfectly sqaure so the top of the printouts was running away from the top of the foamboard. What I'm doing now is spraying the edge of the page with the glue, waiting a couple minutes, then aligning it with the previous page. Once I have that set right then I lift the page and spray the rest of it, wait a couple minutes and wipe it down into place with a cloth. That way my alignment is right before I get too far, and there's no overspray now. This is also doing a better job of ensuring the edges of each page are glued well.

There's still a visible seam in some spots but it's much less obvious now, and the pages are all secure. I have some chalks on hand, I'm thinking of trying to lightly brush the seams with appropriate colors. At the very least it should hide the white edges of the pages, and it will get sealed in when I do a final clear matte coat to protect the paper. I have about 52" completed now -- two more pages to complete the first backdrop, but it's dinner time so I'm taking a break...


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

I made my own backdrop image for a portion of my layout too. I had a local sign shop print my photo on vinyl with a self adhesive and a clear protective over layer. Worked out very well. It was more expensive than your method, but also much easier. Something you may want to consider if you don’t like your results.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Mark -- There's certainly plenty of options available, and I know of at least a couple different places here in town that could handle such a job. I'm just more of a DIY guy, I like to see what I can do on my own. Sure it takes more work, but I love learning new things. 

A quick update, I finished off the first 6-foot section, with an extra inch on the end in case I need to adjust for trim later on. Overall I'm pretty pleased with it!


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Your background looks great! The foreground looks like it will blend in well and scale looks spot on.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

I'm a Bill Darnaby, shelf-layout style fan and point to point switchback supporter !! So I like what you're doing.. I will too. It's hovering in the air, my first purchases of materials.. HO, L shape, with upper Level, L 90 deg turn *main-line* with switchback switch (TO) down 2-3% into lower valley industrial town...maybe wye in corner under main.....


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@telltale -- Shelf layouts are great for a number of different reasons! In my case, I plan to build a garage layout some day but at the moment I'm still trying to figure out all the electronics for some automation. The shelf gives me a smaller space to work on right above my computer, plus I'm learning a lot of new techniques. Work with what you've got available, and always have fun!


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

It's been that way since 1956.......


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Finally getting back to building track. I picked up a 1" belt sander from Harbor Freight on a 50% off sale last month, and just got around to unboxing it last night. The belt is a bit larger grit than what I wanted, but it seems to be working well for turnout parts. I made pieces for three frogs before I finally got the hang of it, but man did that cut off a huge amount of time compared to cutting the rails with a dremel! Even through I built three frogs, it still only took the same amount of time as previously making a single. I got the 'correct' frog soldered down this morning, then moved on to the points. I slightly over-cut the first one, but had plenty of rail to work from so I just re-bent a new tip and worked my way further back down the rail. Finished both points and got the feel for grinding the rail a bit slower. I had enough control on the second point that I actually took the tip down to a needle point on the belt. Very please with how the entire turnout is coming along. Maybe on the next one I can sit down in the morning and time my progress to see how long they're really taking now.

I've also realized I've been using the flangeways portion of the gauge incorrectly. I thought the nubs were the spacing I needed between the rail and the guards, but no! I actually need to put one nub against the opposite rail, then push my guard rail up against the other nub. It makes sense if you consider that the main rails aren't always exactly the same distance apart, and this method ensures the _inside_ spacing between gauge rails is correct, which is where I've been running into problems. The Bachmann locos I've been getting are known for having their wheels at pretty much the minimum spacing between the inside surfaces, so I'm seeing the drivers climbing up over some of the guard rails. Using the new technique on the turnout I'm building today, the same loco can be pushed smoothly through the frog area without catching on the guard rails. Unfortunately I now need to go back and touch up the previous five turnouts I built. I think I can use the side of a cutoff wheel in the dremel to bring down the width of the guard rails, but the current spacing is too narrow to get a file in there.

I took the ESP32 DCC controller back to the other room where my test oval is set up. The new locos I got haven't been broken in yet, so trying to run them at really slow speeds on the shelf has been nearly impossible. I have the controllers set up with plugs now, so it's a fairly simple matter to move the board from one location to another, but eventually I'll get another ESP32 set up for the test loop.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I'm still having a bit of trouble controlling the belt sander, but the last two turnouts are finished with the exception of soldering on the feed wires to the last one. I'll get that finished up tonight. The wood ties have all been glued down so tomorrow I can hit them with a quick shot of paint, then drill the holes through the foam for the wires, and get those turnouts glued into place. After that dries I can add in the last three pieces of flex track to finish off the sidings, and all of the track will finally be finished on this half. (Hooray!)










I started moving the loco around again and realized some more of the frog gaps had closed up. I think what happened was the track was forced together because of the initial issue I was having with the foam warping so much. Now that I finally got it all flat (and it's been staying that way) it probably moved some of the rail. I used the dremel with a tiny saw blade last night and re-cut the gaps. Not as pretty as the original work with the jeweler's saw, but it's electrically happy now, and the gap is still small enough that the wheels don't even rock.

I don't remember if I showed this before, but the green thing is I piece I designed and printed on the 3D printer. It snaps between the rails and provides a perfect 20.75" radius, 15 degree curve, which is what all of the curves are on this shelf. It also works great as a reference when I'm bending the curves for the turnouts. When I'm gluing down the flex track, it helps keep the curve in place until the glue dries, or in this case hold the track between the turnouts in line while I was putting down the wood ties. Those last two turnouts will get their rails soldered together before I glue them in place though.

An odd coincidence occurred that I just noticed last week... The long ties for the switch stands all sit on the side opposite the default path for each turnout. Not sure how that happened, but it will make an easy reference when I start trying to run operations here.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Looking good!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Busy busy! The wood ties have been painted and I snapped a pic of my workspace on the laundry room table yesterday... Gotta share what space I have to work from.  And yes, most of that mess is materials being used to build the shelf.









So the last two turnouts were caulked in place yesterday and allowed to sit through the day to dry. Last night I broke out some more flex track and finished off the last of the sidings. Wow! I mean, I looked over the plans extensively before I began building anything, but seeing it built really gives a new perspective on how complex switching operations can get for this little bit of track!









Today I took a look at the bottom side of the board. I found that a few of the control rod sleeves had come loose from the simple caulking that I did to secure them. It's not a big concern though because if you recall I had started adding a second layer of foamboard to the bottom. With most of the turnout controls in place I was planning to add more strips around the wiring and mechanical bits. So here's what the control rods and frog switches look like...









And a close-up of the switch itself, so you can see how the elbow in the control rod pushes the switch. I had some initial trouble with the piano wire lifting out of the turnout -- the solution was to drop in a staple over the rod, then cover the ends of the staple with caulk to keep it from moving. Simple but it's worked great! However you can see in this image that the tubing has lifted up out of the caulking.









The solution here was to glue down strips of foam next to the tubing, and once that dried I filled in the ridge with more caulking. Hopefully that's enough to keep the tubing in place now...









I've finished reinforcing all five of the existing turnout controls, and will get started on the switches and control rods for the last two turnouts this evening. Then I can get all the frog wires soldered to the switches and have live frogs once I'm ready to test some locos on the track.

I was reading some sites on block detection last night and realized I had ordered a couple of sensors that work with arduinos. I need to get one of them hooked up and see if they're actually sensitive enough to read a 10k resistor on a single truck. The boards are pretty small, about 1/2" x 1-1/14", so they'll fit in the foam easily. Here's hoping for the best...


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

<grumblegrumble> Stupid mistakes are stupid.

I received my order of wire and connectors to run the feeds for both the DCC signal and the 5V source to power the arduinos. Finally had a chance to get some initial wiring in place today so I grouped together the two orange wires (my common track), and the bundle of yellow wires (feeds to each block), got everything bundled up, soldered together to the connector between halves of the shelf, and shrink tubing fixed in place. Looks great! So why do I have a dead short? I re-checked all my frog switches, looked for shorts where I cut the frogs off the main rails, it all seems good. I was finally forced to take apart the bundle of yellow wires so I could isolate the problem down to a specific block. Narrowed it down to both of the spurs at the front-left of the picture above (the last two tracks added). Frustrating because by the time I built those tracks I should have had everything figured out perfectly. I forgot about stupid human error.  It finally occurred to me to check the two feed lines... I had soldered then to the wrong rail) my common rail) instead of the insulated rail. Wow.

At least it won't take too much effort to fix after dinner.

In other news... There are these pins I used years ago on a terrarium. Took an hour of google searching to figure out what they were called... "Tidy Pins". They are a U-shaped pin with a shoulder on them, so they don't push all the way into the foam. The protruding part is perfect to route my wiring along the front side of the shelf foam and keep everything nice and... 'tidy'. I have three packs on order, hope to see them next week.

I've also been looking at different sensors for the block detection. Turns out that one I mentioned in the last post won't work. It has a minimum sensitivity of around 20mA, but a 10k resistor on a single wheel only provides a 1.6mA signal. I found another cheap sensor that reads into the high microamps -- it would be great for detecting individual cars on each siding, except it only works for DC. I had a couple ordered before I realized this, so I'll probably see if I can pull a little of the signal off the track without creating a DC offset (any suggestion on this would be appreciated!). In the meantime I'm still digging around trying to find an alternative device that is under $2 and works with the AC from DCC.

I've been checking all over town trying to find the 1.5" thinwall PVC pipe I want to use from the front edge of the shelf. Everybody is out of this particular size -- except the big box stores, who are gracious enough to repeat back what I asked for, assured me there were bundles available on the shelf, and after driving across town to collect my prize they inform me that they don't even carry that product. I ended up finding what I needed at the Ace store a block from my home. Now I just have to slice them in half and start fitting them up.

Eventually here I'll get everything bolted back down so I can hook up the new turnouts and try out the new track...


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Just wanted to show a little something Ive been working on. This platform is going to be a loading area for wagons (time period is late 1800's) and will have a hoist at one end. The area between the rails will eventually get filled in, but before I spray-paint the base color on the shelf I needed to add more foam for the dirt road leading towards the back. I really like how the colors of the different strips of basswood stand out on the larger section. I'm hoping to give it all a black wash and then try for a look of worn oak planks, but I'm still pretty inexperienced at that sort of thing. We'll see how it turns out though.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

We are having another train club meeting next Thursday with a show&tell, and I'm trying to get everything up to a 'nice' spot where I can easily transport this half of the shelf I've been working on. Transporting it means screwing all the layers back together again, but before I can do that I want to get the top painted and get a spot cut out in the pink foam for the turnout controller. Looking over what I needed to finish before the paint goes down, I needed to finish building up the road above, and I've been unhappy with the steep slope from the mainline roadbed. To fix the slope, I broke out a tube of brown caulking for the gun today and started laying down beads to reduce the slop and smooth out some other areas. If you compare this with previous pictures (easiest to see around the timbers for the switch stands) I believe the new slope will look a lot more natural once some ballast gets glued over it.









I also have a spur along the back where I wanted to make the mainline ballast overflow, plus the spur should appear neglected and the visible ties filled in with dirt. I had cut a slot in the foam so the ties are sitting even with the top of the foam, and today I filled them in with the caulk. After adding a lot of water to spread it thin and wipe it down even with the ties, and I think it came out pretty good. On the mainline side I used the caulk to create a smooth slope and brought it right up to the foot of the rail. Once some ballast and dirt are added to that side it should come almost to the top of the rail.









After taking the pictures I weighed down the track to try and keep the foam from curling up again while the caulk dries overnight, and I should be ready to hit the whole thing with a coat of dark brown tomorrow. Which is good because all that white caulking showing between the ties has been driving me nuts! 

The tidy pins arrived yesterday, several days earlier than expected. I also ordered three different types of trees plus some static grass shrubs. I'm curious to see if they're good enough for quick&easy scenery on here. The close-up shots of two of the trees show a pretty simple plastic frame with different types of material added for leaves. The third tree appears to have a hand-made twisted wire framework for the trunk and branches, so I have a lot of hope for that one. Eventually I'll start looking around the neighborhood for small bushes that I could use twigs from to make my own trees, then I can try to match the foliage shown on my backdrop.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Do you have any sage brush up your way? Makes great trees.
Also 12 gauge stranded wire works pretty good, can make any size or shape you want.
How I did it.








Magic's Reno Nv. layout.


Big ED Well those are new windows. They're tinted and what ever they used attracts dust like a magnet. But now thanks to you I'll have to give in to the washers demands. :mad: :) or be known through the model railroad world as a poor housekeeper. As for floors you can eat off my floors...




www.modeltrainforum.com





Magic


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@Magic -- Ah I think I've read that one before! Although 12awg is a bit large for HO I would think? I used to make copper trees out of stranded wire... Fun stuff, but time consuming, although it certainly looks a lot more realistic than some of the plastic trees I've seen.

So, the base paint went on today. It's the rustoleum ultra-flat earth brown, which I like as a base color for the ties. Ends up looking a bit like chocolate in the pictures but it's actually darker than that. It's funny how the caulking gives the paint a shiny look, but it will all be covered anyway. I have some other colors I wanted to add for the base dirt, but most are a bit more red than I expected. One is a pretty decent color though so I think I'll cover the ground area with it, then use a brush to blend in some other shades. I'm thinking I will use painter's tape to mask off the tracks, then I can spray the exposed areas.









After I lay down the paint I use some scraps of soft pine to scrub the top of the rails. For the most part it leaves the paint on the sides of the rails so I have something for the rust-colored acrylic to stick to, but that comes later (when I have a lot of free time to invest in hand-painting them). At that time I'll also do some hand painting on the ties to give some variation of color. After that I could potentially start laying down ballast, however I still need to work on the sensors and the magnets for decoupling on the sidings.

I've found a little directional lighting really highlights the backdrop, not to mention with all the white foam covered now it no longer washes out everything else in the picture. I think this is one of the first shots I've taken where the background looks decently natural.  Maybe a little bit of practice at forced-perspective with my camera and it will look even better?









Moving the piece around today has once again resulted in a short between one of the frogs. At least this time I don't have all the wires soldered together so it'll be easier to find! Tomorrow I'll get the rails taped off and paint the dirt, then I need to start putting everything back together to show at the club meeting.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Looking good!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Erg, scratch that... I don't have a new short at one of the frogs, I have two large metal blocks laying on top of the rails while things are drying. Take them off and the short goes away, image that! Sheesh I'm getting bad about missing the obvious.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I really love this view I took last night. It seems to show off just how short code-70 rails are (in stark contrast to the old Atlas and Tyco code-100 track I grew up with).









I have the slot cut out for the arduino that controls the turnouts and adjusted some of the servo cable lengths (I have a pretty good selection of extension cables). There is quite a mess on wires hanging down now! Hoping to get the track masked off for the final spray-painting this afternoon though. I did some test swabs last night and one of the reddish colors matches almost perfectly with the ground cover on the foreground of the backdrop, so I'm going to use that color along the back edge and try to blend the spray towards the front, into the other dirt color I had selected.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

It didn't take nearly as long as I expected to get the track taped off and paint the dirt areas. I'll probably let this all dry for a week or more and then come back with a brush and some acrylics to blend the dirt colors up towards the track ties. I also noticed the caulking still feels squishy and tacky, kinda like clay, so it will probably take awhile to finish curing.

So here's a shot of all the base colors in place. The back edge is done with a redder color, plus I added some streaks of red through the foreground so everything isn't a solid color.









Almost ready to hook up the turnout servos again, but I want to make a slight adjustment to some of the frog switches first. I wasn't very consistent with my spacing so some of the control rods have to push a ways past where the points seat into position before the switch triggers. I'm thinking I can glue some styrene to the switch levers so the control rod contacts them sooner, but I want to let the paint dry overnight first though.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

NOOOOOOOOO! These paints are *GLOSSY*!

Guess I'll have to go buy another can of dullcoat.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Finished trimming up the throw rods for the turnouts. The servos have all been hooked up and their positions adjusted to ensure they trip the frog switches. And I got the foam and plywood layers screwed back together and all the wiring pinned up.

So in my rush I forgot that I still need to adjust the guard rail spacing on some of the turnouts. Ah well, I'll just hand-brush some paint back on the ties after I get done with the soldering. I'm also noticing that the angle of the points (in the way they sit next to the stock rails when the turnout is thrown in the opposite direction) is off noticeably so I'll need to get a file in there to fix those.

Otherwise a loco is moving smoothly across the various tracks and I believe I have everything ready to just pack up and take to the club meeting Thursday. It's certainly a lot easier to move this around with all the layers screwed together now.

I still have to really think about which number I need to tap for which turnout, and I had an idea about that... I'm going to do target style switchstands and was thinking maybe I could stencil the turnout number onto each target? Seems like I saw that in a photo somewhere and I'm sure it would help. Anyway, some minor things to work on after the club meeting but it's coming together well. I think once I get the track and paint issues resolved it will finally be time to start building the left shelf!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well that was ugly... I was looking at the turnouts last night and realized the curves weren't lining up and the gauged spacing between the rails was completely wrong. I couldn't figure out how I could have let that go when I built the turnouts, not to mention some alignment issues. I finally realized today that somehow the track had been pushed together so hard along the length that it was pushing the rails way out and in some cases had popped some solder joints! I'm currently going through, removing my soldered jumpers at the joints, and cutting new gaps. Once there's room for relief, the turnouts are popping back into gauge again (whew!). After I get this done I'll have to re-check the clearance at the guard rails, maybe this will also fix some of those issues.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

The loco seems to roll pretty smoothly around the turnouts now, even through the spots where I know I was having trouble with guard rail clearance before. Glad that took care of all the issues I was seeing so I don't have to try to move the guard rails. I still can't figure out what happened though, because we keep the house temperature controlled within a few degrees so there's been no real change that could have caused rail expansion. Oh well, got some nice wide gaps now! 

I thought I'd play with painting some rust on the sides of the rails tonight. I've had trouble with that in the past and I was never happy with the look. I figured out that diluting the acrylic by about 50% really makes a huge difference, as the paint forms to the rail much better and it shows the unevenness of the spray paint (actually looks like rough rust). I started out mixing burnt umber and burnt sienna together, but I think it's a little dark so I might just try a diluted mix of the burnt sienna next time.

I'm not sure if you can see the detail in this picture, but it at least gives an idea of the color.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Your painting of the rails looks really good. I know how tedious it is to do that based on my own experience.

Your latest issue with your base and past warping issues would cause me to seriously consider redoing the entire base using a different material. My primary worry would be that the unstable base will continue to move and cause problems. The more you build on it, the more difficult it will be to rip it up and replace it. You might need to bite the bullet and replace it now so you aren’t fighting it forever more.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Other than adding the dullcoat to the shiny dirt there won't really be any more building at this point, except getting starting on the other half of the shelf. I plan on leaving the surface bare for awhile because the next step is working with sensors (which are all coming from China), and I'll probably end up with wires running everywhere. Wouldn't want to drag them through my sagebrush. 

Something I just realized... relieving the stress in the track has also allowed the surface foam to relax. The last spots I still had bowing are now sitting flat.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I mixed up some acrylic today and used a brush to blend in the straight edges left by the tape where the dirt color meets the dark track base. It wasn't an exact match but made a good intermediary between the tan and reddish dirt colors I had put down. Once I get some grass over the top of it the multiple colors should look fairly decent (at least I hope!). I'm still bummed about this glossy coat though. I re-checked my spray paint cans, all of them claim to be a satin finish, so I dunno what happened.

I've just about finished painting the rust on from the front side of the rails today. The more I get done, the more I'm liking this mix. I think what really makes the difference is the dark brown base color that was sprayed on first, it helps the orange tint show without being neon bright. So basically my recipe is to start with the rustoleum ultra-flat earth brown to cover the track and ties. The acrylic 'rust' is then a mix of about 1 part water, 1 part burnt umber, and 2 parts burnt sienna (3 parts for the sidings). Because of the water you have to keep small amounts of paint in the brush when you first apply it to the rails, but it makes the whole mix wick out to fill the web of the rail, and as it dries it leaves a slightly rough surface which looks a lot like old rust close-up. I basically brush on whatever is in the brush, spread it out some leaving random small puddles (which create spots of brighter orange), and then as I'm spreading out the next brush full I will overlap the previous area, giving a thicker coat. The two layers seem to be just about right for filling in the color, but it's all thin enough that if I don't like what I'm seeing I can spread out the paint even more to tone it down. It looks slightly too bright while wet, but gets darker as it dries.










Unfortunately I didn't get to show it off at the train club yesterday. The gentleman who was running the meetings got sick this week and nobody else was available to run the meeting so they had to cancel it. Oh well, by next month I should have the other half of the shelf well under way (plus I might know what I'm doing this time!) so I'll be able to take in both halves.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Busy weekend, but the dullcoat has removed all the shiny. I also stopped at the hobby store yesterday and picked up some WS fine cinders ballast and a couple packages of WS foam 'bushes'. I couldn't find any 'dirt' color that actually looked like dirt, but the find dust over by the dumpster has a nice clay tint to it so I'll probably just sift my own dirt material when I'm ready.

I have my rust painted on all of the facing sides except for one spur, which I'll get done in the morning. I think I'm ready to get started on the other half!


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## Maddog (Jan 14, 2016)

I use real dirt on my layout. Just sift it and glue it down. Can't beat the price.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well that was fun... I put together the white foamboard pieces this morning and used the spray-glue to attach the printouts this afternoon. It went SO much faster than trying to spray down elmers glue, and there shouldn't be any issue with warping this time! I also got smarter with my layout this time around... I drew some reference grid lines on the foamboard corresponding to the lines on the printouts. Then I lined up each page where I wanted it and stuck a couple pieces of tape along one side of the page. That way I was able to lift the page, spray it with glue, and lay it back down without having to mess with wet glue and alignment. I've probably only put an hour into getting the whole thing put together this time.

I'm adding the second layer of foamboard on the back now, just waiting for the glue to dry (this DOES use elmers at full strength, but the pieces are only 2" wide and don't cause curling). Looks like it's time to 3D-print some more of those T-nuts and drill the alignment holes between layers of foam, and start cutting the bed for the mainline to match up to the other half of the shelf.

This half of the shelf will also have a river bed, which is why I waited to do it last. I will need to slice through all the layers of foam down to the plywood, so this side won't be as easy to manage, but the T-nuts should still keep everything squared up. And then I get to build two bridges on this side! (Exciting!)


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Been really busy this week but I'm still sneaking in some train time. i have most of the foamboard cut out including the pieces for two of the elevation ramps. Those just need hit with the belt sander to provide a slope for the track, then they'll get glued down to the base. The last slope will be a bit more difficult... I want to make a low cliff for the siding to climb. It will end up being three layers tall (a little over 1/2") giving a steep slope of about 3.1%. I'll have to figure out how far to extend each layer, then come back with the sander to make an even slope. That will likely be the last piece of track I complete though.

In the meantime, I'm up to that point where I need to add alignment pins of some sort between the two halves of the shelf. I have to start laying the new track at the curve over the center, which means I have to have an exact alignment with the end of the curve from the first half. Once I get that done I can lay the flex track up to the first pair of turnouts (which are already built). I have four more turnouts to build for this side and will probably get started on them next week. So far this side is moving right along so the track should go down pretty quickly. This is so much easier now that I know what I'm doing!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Last night I put up some printouts to see exactly where the river in the backdrop lined up with the layout so I could plan the position of the river on the shelf. Once I had that figured out I mocked up the elevated siding. That track will be 3/8" high than the mainline in front of it, and while that doesn't seem like much it looks pretty good when compared to the low profile of everything else on the shelf. I think what I'm going to do is make a rock ledge that rises up from the left (where the siding joins the rest of the track), ending at the river bank. Then I'll build a trestle that extends across the river and supports the rest of the siding, so the trestle will come out to about 10" in length overall. The elevated portion of the siding was intended to be a spot for dumping hopper loads so I think this is going to work out nicely.

Of course this means I will need to cut the river path into the foam before laying any track. Looking at the river on the backdrop image it appears to have a wide, shallow bed, so I think I may not need to cut into the pink foam at all. If I just cut the white foam I will have a depth of 3/8". Having never modeled a river of any kind before, I'm not sure if that's enough to give it a good look? Obviously the epoxy won't come all the way to the top. I think to match the river on the backdrop I want it to be fairly transparent at the top but quickly turn muddy near the bottom. Would that give the appearance of more depth? Sheesh I guess I should do a practice run before I try to make this one.

Anyway, here's the mock-up of the elevated siding...


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Shdwdrgn said:


> I think to match the river on the backdrop I want it to be fairly transparent at the top but quickly turn muddy near the bottom. Would that give the appearance of more depth? Sheesh I guess I should do a practice run before I try to make this one.


My river is cut into 1" foam. The darker the paint under your water medium, the greater the appearance of depth. I went with black in the middle, then dark green, then lighter green, then mud/sandy close to the banks. If you are going for wide, shallow and sandy then you probably don't want to go as dark as black... except for the occasional hole that's holding a nice trout.

This is a pic of how the river bed was painted before I added "water".


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

That's _before_ the water? Wow it looks pretty impressive even at that stage. I feel like I'm getting pretty good with blending the acrylics lately. After reading what you said I'm considering starting at the banks with the darker color I used for 'dirt' on the first half of the shelf, then blending it towards a really dark brown in the middle. In my backdrop image of the rivier, the shaded areas are a deeper brown that match the bare land in that same location. It makes me thing the shade is actually showing the sand under the water, and since this picture is from high in the mountains it would make sense that the water itself is likely crystal-clear. What do you think, is my reasoning logical for all of this?

I had remembered the idea of putting rocks in the water, but completely forgot about adding debris. And I'm really digging your center rock shelf although I'm not sure if that's something I have space for. It's all just pencil marks on top of the foamboard right now, plenty of time to make changes. I think the thing that really scares me about the water is the technique of adding ripples and waves. It's right up there with cutting rock faces to look natural, which I've failed miserably at in the past. At least for the rocks I have some molds on hand.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Your logic makes sense. Often times you can't see beneath the water's surface in the sunlight, but you can in the shade. Watch a Heron or Egret fish. 

What are you planning on using for water?

All of my rock is plaster cloth. No cutting. Just gob and dob and push and clump and pinch until it looks right to my eye. If I were doing it to match the craggy landscape in your background I'd probably dig out the clay modelling tools so I could get it more... craggy.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well I don't trust plaster to survive trips to train shows (at least not without frequent repair?), which is why I've been using the calking to sculpt around the track thus far. I'm going to try molding some rocks in the forms with the calk one of these days, thinking maybe if I put down some plastic wrap fist and then push the calk down into the mold, maybe I can get usable shapes? Most of the rock area will be foam, so overall it should keep the whole assembly fairly lightweight.

As for the 'water'... I dunno yet. I've heard of varying results with plain old clear 30-minute epoxy, I've heard of better results with some of the commercial _expensive_ stuff, and I've heard everything in between. Keeping with my theme of cheap, flexible, and easily available... I recall seeing some crystal-clear silicon on the shelf at Ace. It might be worth experimenting with to see what kind of results I get, and it would certainly handle the temperature transition better when I take it outside in the middle of December (when our club show is held), plus it has a much longer cure time which may be helpful to try and add features like ripples in the surface. I'm thinking of making the bridges easily removable, so I can get the track in place long before I get around to filling the river, so there's no rush of learning a technique to use.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Well I don't trust plaster to survive trips to train shows


Oh yeah... that. 

Water... search on "mod podge river".


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been working on the ramps between elevations. I decided that the lead-in to the ladder yard could actually slope down the length to the curve at the last siding, making it only half as steep, so I glued down another piece of foam over the top of what I had already shaped. Took the belt sander to it today, and managed to finesse it to get a completely smooth and flat slope that is almost ready to glue track on (still need to trim the sides by hand).

I also finished building up the foam for the big grade on the rear siding, so I started working on it with the belt sander next. Yeah that didn't go nearly as well, but I think the problem was because I had to sand across layers of the paper that is glued to the foam, so I ended up cutting too deep in several places. I decided to just take it all down slightly lower than I need, and glued a new piece of foam over the top, which is sitting at an angle so when I work it with the belt sander I will only be working on foam and no paper (and that's probably why the first area came out right, because it was also set up the same way). I'm probably not describing it too well, but it's easier to flatten out a solid layer of a single material rather than trying to evenly work through layers of foam, paper, and glue.

I'll finish up that slope tomorrow and grab a new photo, then it'll be time to start building turnouts again. I scored a fantastic deal off ebay this week -- two new packages of the ME code 70 rail for $63 with shipping. I paid that much for my first single package of rail! So now I have a nice stockpile to work from when I get started on the big layout.

I also got some bridge track ordered last night, along with a new pack of insulated rail joiners. I ended up drawing a center rock ridge in the river under the tall siding, similar to what Stumpy has, just to give me a foot to put a trestle on without sitting in the water. The smaller bridge on the mainline is going to be a simple flat bridge with minimal support under it. I'm having trouble finding any good pictures of something like that though so I may have to just wing it. Either way, I'm excited to get the bridge track delivered and start building the bridges so I can cut in the river and see how it's all going to look.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I made a trip to the hardware store today and have a nice little pile of goodies for connecting the two halves of the shelf together. First I looked for something to use as alignment pins. I started with some tapered steel pins and bolt spacers which provided a nice fit. The plan was to just screw down a flat plat over both halves so the pin could slide into the spacer. Then I found some actual alignment pins... These are just steel pieces with flares around the outside, so you drill a hole, stick in some glue, and tap the pieces into the facing boards. They're not quite as tight of fit as the tapered pin setup, but I got three sets and when you consider any slop from me drilling the holes, they'll probably be a tight fit by the time I'm done.

Then I looked for something to actually latch the shelves together. IKEA technology to the rescue! Anyone who's put together particle-board shelving has seen those cams where a bolt head fits through the slot, then you turn the cam and it locks the bolt head in place. They had a mini version that fits in a 1/2" board. Unfortunately they were out of the matching bolt for it, but that never slowed me down.  I found #8 countersink wood bolts which have a shank of the right size to fit through the cam slot but the head was too large to fit. So I picked up a few, chucked one in the lathe, and used a file to take down the head diameter and round it out to match what the original pieces looked like. Makes for a solid fit, and if it loosens up over time I have plenty of bolt length to tighten it into the plywood.

So I have everything I need to make sure the track that crosses the center between boards will stay aligned, I just need to accurately drill a bunch of holes...

So here's the first of the slopes I was working on yesterday. This comes off the mainline and splits into three tracks for a ladder yards, with the two yard turnouts on the slope (in the area where you see the flex track here).









After letting a new piece of foam glue in place overnight I tackled the big slope for the hopper spur today. This time I took the foam down about half way, then glued some sandpaper to a board and used that to finish taking down the rest of the foam by hand. That provided much more control and I was able to finish the whole slope down to a nice flat taper. You can see the bottom end of it in the background above, and this shows where it will come up to the edge of the river.









So the transition slopes are all in place now, I just need to figure out how I'm going to finish off this rock wall. It will be at least a couple more days before the bridge track arrives, so I'll get to work on pins and latches between the shelf halves.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Well I wasn't expecting to get to it tonight, but all the pins and cams are in place. Everything lined up pretty decently despite drilling all the holes by hand, and the cams locked into position without any trouble (although I do need to adjust one of the bolts). There's a slight offset between the boards, so I'll hit that with the belt sander one of these days to level it out again.










Apparently I did a good job of lining up the roadbed for the curve on the new half, it feels like it's perfectly centered on the bit of flex track hanging over from the first side. I'll need to check the curve of the track though, make sure it's not straightening out on the end where it's cut off (it should continue the same amount of curve so the overall bend continues smoothly). Glad to get that out of the way and finally have a working solution, that's been bugging me for a long time.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

So exciting, I received the bridge track today! I guess it's just about time to cut the river bed into the foam and start building bridges.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Yeah it's been a quiet week in the train world... I was finally able to get the DSLR camera I've been wanting for a long time, found a good deal on ebay for it, which came in on Saturday. Plus I had a big project I was working on through the long weekend, so I barely even got a chance to play with the camera.

I DID however receive some orders for the train recently, including more coil current sensors for block detection, the amplifier chip to read the coils, and another WS rock mold, this time C1247 for shelf rocks which should work great along the edge of the small rise that I have.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Wow it's been two months already??? I've been having a lot of fun with the new camera, and have been learning how to get pictures through the telescope (attempting to get close-up shots of the surface of the sun), but I've poked at the shelf on and off to get a few things done.

Starting on the first half, I finally completed the wood loading dock for flatcar loads. I just need to get the pieces stained and glued in place, but I'm pretty happy with it. I did a lot of filing on the edges of the basswood as I put everything together so I have gaps and damaged boards throughout. I'll use caulking to build up around the edges to make it look like it's sitting in dirt, and I think I'll also make the road leading to it dirt as well (I originally considered gravel). I also need to build a barricade at the end of the track.









On the new shelf half, I've been working around the river. Gotta have a removable bridge in place before I can lay the rest of the track, so I've been stuck there for awhile. Here's the bridge sitting in place, and I've also cut out a shallow river bed. I glued another layer of foam underneath the bed, and the glue was still a little wet when I cut out the top layer so the paper peeled some. I was going to clean it up, then realized it could add some detail to the bottom of the river after I paint it, so I left it rough. I used caulking to build a ramp on either side of the bridge (it needed to come up about the height of one tie), so that's just about ready for track. Regarding the bridge being removable, I'm thinking of soldering rail joiners to the flex track, then opening up the sides facing the bridge to create a pocket for the bridge track to sit in. That will give me continuity for testing the track, and once I've finished the river and landscaping I can glue down the bridge and solder the bridge track into the pockets.









And finally, this week I started prepping the edges where the two shelves meet. The top foam didn't sit correctly on the first shelf so there was a gap. I added foam to try and fill it, but didn't quite get there so you can still see a small gap below. I think what I'll do and attach the two shelves together, slide some wax paper between them, and fill the rest of the gap with more caulk (with the wax paper allowing it to only stick to one side). There is also a hump in the track on the right side, leading to a dip at the joint between shelves, and then it ramps back up to the bridge. I didn't like that so I peeled up the first few inches of track last weekend and glued it back down, sitting a bit more level. Unfortunately I didn't notice until last night when I was trying to match up the track on the other shelf -- I allowed the curve to straighten out and I no longer have a smooth transition between the shelves. So I'll have to peel it back up again and try to do better this time. Ideally maybe I can slide on some rail joiners and caulk down the track on both sides at the same time to ensure everything stays lined up.









So a bit of progress here and there, but hopefully I have the bridge situation worked out now and can start laying track again soon. I've also been thinking about the block detection again lately and ran across another chip I didn't know of -- the INA226. The INA219 I originally looked at is only 12 bits, so it might be difficult to detect a single 10k wheel resistor. The INA226 is a 16-bit chip which means that even if you have it scaled to a 5amp circuit, it will still detect current changes down into the microamps. I believe a single resistor will draw about 1.5milliamps, so this chip will even be able to tell you how far off each resistor is from the intended value, plus tell you how much of a load a loco is under by how much current it's pulling. At this stage all of the electronics have been taken apart though, and won't be hooked back up until I get the track laid on the second shelf, so it will be awhile yet before I can start experimenting with block detection. At least I'll have a lot of different chips and circuits to try out once I'm back up and running!


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

For water, I have used Clear Gorilla Glue. Sets up nicely, dries overnight. About $10 for a 5 or 6 oz. bottle, not super cheap. Compared to WS water, it sets up faster, less penetrating to porous plaster surfaces that can drink up WS as fast as can be poured.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been looking at Mod Podge gloss. It's supposed to work well for calm water (matching the backdrop, this will be a lazy stream), but I'm having trouble finding much information on using it. I do see a lot of complaints about it staying tacky for a very long time though, so it's kind of a toss-up as to what I'll use. At least there seems to be a lot of options to choose from.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I 3D-printed a full 30-degree guide last night to try and get this big curve laid out properly. This is long enough to let me glue down that last bit on the first shelf plus get up to the bridge on the second shelf. Here I'm using both the 30-degree arc and the original 15-degree arc to hold all the track in place. I can also adjust exactly where the track will lay to make sure it crosses the bridge in the right spot. The entire curve looks a lot cleaner now, so I think I'm ready to try gluing it down once more.









Another shot from the front to show how much of a gap I have in order to level out this section of track. That's a piece of 1/8" basswood near the center propping up the track, but it looks nearly perfect when I lay a straightedge across it. I may add some foam to shape a small hill in front of this curve so the ballast doesn't look quite so high through here after I finish messing with the track.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Just wanted to say things went pretty well and the curve looks MUCH better now. I'll wait until tomorrow to pull out the green guide since things have a tendency to slip while the caulk is drying. The track didn't end up completely flat through this area, but there's only about a 1/16" transition where it dips in the center which is pretty inconsequential for HO scale. I left extra track on the left side which I can trim down to make room for the bridge track, then I'll be ready to add the short section remaining between the bridge and the first pair of turnouts. I have another pair of turnouts I need to build before I can finish off the mainline, guess I should get started on those while I'm waiting for the caulk to dry.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

There's no waiting with plywood and track nails. Just sayin'.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Yeah but track nails are ugly. Plus the caulk holds the position of a curve at every tie rather than just the spots you put nails in, so it doesn't have a tendency to slip. I can wait overnight.

So the final elevation transition is more like 1/32" -- very minor and visually it looks pretty flat. I haven't gone back to finish that up yet because I've been working on the pair of turnouts. Almost finished with that piece, I just need to cut the electrical gaps and add the wires and guard rails. I think once that is done, I'm ready to start laying down some wood filler ties for the first pair of turnouts, then I can complete the curve through the bridge.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been laying down the wood ties today. Had to make a trip to the hobby shop because I ran out of strips of basswood, but I should have plenty now. I've been prepping some flex track to fit between the sets of turnouts and making sure everything sits properly. I'll get some more ties set down tonight, then I need to pull off the top layer of foam so I can start drilling holes for the wires and point control rods. A bit more prep work here and there, then I can start laying down the caulk and setting this track in place. At that point it shouldn't be long before I have the mainline done, and probably the spur for the loco yard (it will be small, probably just providing coal and sand, maybe a shack for light repairs).









So as a reminder, the track area marked in gray above is the mainline, and the track leading off to the bottom-right will be replaced by a pair of turnouts to make a three-spur yard. The pair of turnouts on the left side are what I built this week and I'll be laying wood ties under them after dinner. There is another turnout just out of sight below the left corner that merges the mainline back to the run-around track so I'll just need a couple more pieces of flex track to get that connected. After I finish that, I'll go back to getting the track cut around the bridge, and then get started on the trestles for the hopper track near the back corner.

Lots to do still, but after 3 months of no progress it's really nice to be getting track laid again.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

It’s always satisfying when you can see progress being made. The build continues to look great!


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

*Though late* to this thread I just want to wish you good luck in your automating processes..I hope you are able to find remedies for mishaps no more diff than the 1:1 scale; all their myriad of ways to cope with nature...
I happened to have been in a city over 2.5 scores ago or more which had a national train show in town..It was early times for N scale, too..
I always remember Kadee had a booth there with an automated switching layout in N scale..All the activity shunting cars hither and dither over their uncoupling ramps, demo-ing their great knuckle coupler performance with a couple engines went flawlessly and always thought how cool that'd be, when in the mood, to just sit back and watch the RR action !!! Hopefully you will !! 
Good tidings in the new year,
Mark


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Whew, I've been dreading this for days, but I finally got the next section of track put down. This included a pair of turnouts with wires to feed through the foam, and two curves that needed held in position with jigs, plus some straight pins to correct the alignment where things wanted to drift. I finished with some metal blocks to keep things flat. I'm also getting better at not being so sloppy with the caulk. Fortunately everything else after this is pretty simple in comparison, now I'm just waiting for the caulk to set up for an hour so I can verify the track is all positioned correctly.










I used some thinned raw umber on the basswood ties last night. It's rather too bad I'll be painting over it because that leaves a really nice color in the wood. On the first shelf I painted the ties, then laid down the track and had to guess where the lines where supposed to be. This time I figured I would just paint everything with the ties in place but I wanted to give the wood some kind of initial coat in case the pain didn't reach everywhere. Now I was able to see my lines and get all the track laid in the correct positions (really helpful for those curves!) so I think it went a lot smoother.

The next pair of turnouts go at the upper-left. The wood ties are already in place, I just need to solder the feed wires to the track and they'll be ready to put in place, then I can start prepping the flex tracks that lead to the last turnout on the mainline.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Have you looked at using CV ties? Central Valley Model Train Supply CVT Track. you can pre-paint the ties before gluing the rail down.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

As with every other time you've suggested these to me, I'm still not really sure where I would use the CV ties at? I mean I have a few spots here and there where I use a regular-width tie to fill in around the ends of a turnout, but where else would I use them? And $50 for 6 feet of ties? I can buy 18' of flex track for less than that (and frequently do use the ties from flex track to fill in areas, then use the extra rail for building turnouts). Sorry but I still find no value in this product, despite the fantastic detail they offer.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I see the confusion, and the web site is not clear on this. It only gives the scale length of the ties, that is 9 footers or 8.5 footers. The each tie strip is 12" long, thus you get 50 feet of ties (50 12" strips for $50). I could not find this info on their web side and had to look at what I bought! You also need to buy the rail, I think it all comes out about the same price as flex, but I like laying track like this rather than flex, just a personal preference probably left over from using tru-scale ties back in the 60's! There is also a discount built in.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Hmm interesting. I was looking at the page for the 8'6 ties and I thought it said one package provided enough ties for 6' of track. Yeah it's all _very_ confusing, you would think they would make a point of letting people know how many feet you get in your order, and point out that they also sell the bare rail. Ah well.

I've been using ME track for the flex and the turnouts. And I'm really loving the look of the code 70 track, especially in the close-up pictures. I actually got a heck of a deal off ebay awhile back, two packages of ME bare rail (33 rails per package) for $70 including shipping. The first package (single) of this stuff that I bought cost $66 with shipping! If I ever get around to building a big layout, I think I have enough rail on hand now to build most of the turnouts.

I got the new pair of turnouts glued down a couple hours ago. I also trimmed up the excess track around the bridge and confirmed that it maintained the correct position through the curve, so when I'm ready to lay in the bridge track everything will be in alignment. Now I'll just be prepping the flex track to install the next turnout, and that will take me to the far end of the shelf and once I finish the bridge it will complete the mainline.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I was shocked that it was not apparent on the web site. I get ME code 83 rail for around $54 for weathered rail and I'm thinking that I'll stop using the weathered rail as I have to sand off the bottom for soldering and gluing, where as its easier to just paint regular rail. Its also cheaper! I do seem to end up with less scrap (short pieces) doing it this was and it fits right in with making my own turnouts. Its a hobby and keeps me out of trouble!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

It occurred to me that I haven't posted an update pic in the past week, so I figured it was time. I've been laying down the turnouts and now have the mainline plus a run-around finished. I also have the track prepped for the first siding. Hopefully I left enough gap in the rails this time. I got some jumper wires soldered to the track to bring power to either side of the bridge, but I've also been thinking about power routing this weekend... I have all these wires coming from the turnouts to supply power to the frog, and I realized I could make the power more reliable if I connected together the common rail from all of them, and connected each set of turnouts that are in a common block. It also provides a point to connect the power wires to without having to solder more wires to each track.










So the next step is getting the track around the bridge prepped, do the final alignments on the track that crosses the gap between shelves, and then I should be ready to get DCC hooked back up again so I can test how the locos run between shelves and across the bridge.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Shdwdrgn said:


> I've been looking at Mod Podge gloss. It's supposed to work well for calm water (matching the backdrop, this will be a lazy stream), but I'm having trouble finding much information on using it. I do see a lot of complaints about it staying tacky for a very long time though, so it's kind of a toss-up as to what I'll use. At least there seems to be a lot of options to choose from.


I used Mod Podge for water and was very satisfied with it.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Gramps, which type did you use? Did you do a single pour or put it down in layers? And can you tell me if it remains a little flexible or if it gets brittle? Did you have any trouble with it remaining tacky for a long time after if dried?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Someone who was on the forum said there was a video online on modelling water with toilet paper and Modpodge Gloss. I mixed water and white glue 50-50 soaked the tp in it and laid it down. I used a small paint brush to create a ripple effect and let it dry. I think I waited a day or due and then painted it and let it dry again. I then applied the Modpodge allowing each layer to dry before doing the next. I never had any problem with it being tacky or brittle. If you can locate video it will walk you right through it or you could try a search on this forum.

PS: Back then I remember that I made a comment about calling the water Schitz Creek. I did a forum search on that and found the thread. It's under New England Model Railroad and post #247 gives the Youtube link and a better description.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been going through ideas for the past week on how to make the bridge track removable but still conduct power, and I think I finally figured something out. I have just enough room to work with, so I put regular rail joiners on one side of the track so I can slide the bridge track in place. The other side needed a way to hold the rails without capturing them. What I ended up doing was taking a rail joiner and cutting the flange in the middle on one side so I could open up the top half of the joiner. I opened up the opposite side on a second rail joiner. The picture isn't too clear, but this left an open flap on the inside of both rails, while the rail joiners remain untouched on the outer side of the rails. So when I drop this other side of the bridge track in place, I simply pinch the rails together so they slip inside of the rail joiners. It's enough to keep the rails from moving and keep them fairly well aligned with the track that is already glued in place. Note you can also see the wires I added here to electrically join the track on either side of the bridge.










So that was a bit difficult to put together, but once I confirmed it was working as intended I dropped a small bit of solder on each of the four rail joiners to attach them to the glued track, and now I can pull out the bridge track at any time.










If you check the alignment of the rails in the next image, you can see that they don't make a nice smooth curve yet. This is mostly because of all the missing ties plus the last couple ties on each end coming loose from the caulk, so the track wants to return to a straight alignment.










Not to worry though... The next step to finish up the bridge is to extend the beams that the ties sit across out into the embankment. This will give me room to add four more heavy bridge ties on each side to fill the gap, then I can put in a small track nail along the outside of the curve to hold the rail where it should be. And of course once the track is glued to the bridge it will help retain the curve there too.

I need to re-check clearance on the bridge as well. It seems to only barely have room to move a flatcar through. I've already made the cross beams wider that the bridge blueprints I was modeling from, but it's pretty tight. I think the loco is going to be the widest thing going through, and it did have clearance when I had this sitting on the desk, so I probably just need to adjust the track position.

Anyway, I'm happy to finally have the track in place so I can finish up the bridge. At some point in the future those rail joiner flaps will be rolled back into the rail and soldered in place, but for now there's a lot of scenery that needs completed, including the river itself, but meanwhile I should be able to drive the locos over the bridge while the track gets tested.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Wow... 7 months. I knew it had been awhile since I had time to work on this, but really? Well I'm happy to report that some small amount of progress has been made finally. I got the last two turnouts prepped yesterday and attached them this morning. I also got one of the sidings attached, and just about have all three tracks for the yard ready to lay down. It's going to be a busy weekend but maybe I can get those finished up next week. Then that only leaves the elevated hopper siding, but that will involve building some trestles so it will wait for a bit.

The next step will be working on some block sensors. I have a few different types of electronics to test out, but I want to figure out what will work before I start wiring up this half of the shelf. I also need to do some experimenting with IR sensors. Between those two devices I should have pretty good feedback about where the trains are at.

I also realized the bridge is still too narrow, and after looking at Latestarter's design I think I can update mine to be more realistic.

So... back to making baby steps, but at least something is happening.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

And a month later I finally got the yard laid down. I actually prepped the tracks around the time of my last post, then they've just been sitting there waiting. The spur in the back corner is the only remaining piece of track left but it will probably be awhile before I get around to building the trestle for it. I'll probably go ahead and lay down the flex track on the ramp leading up to the trestles though, then I can do all the wiring and some initial painting.










You may think that the three yard tracks look awfully close together, and you would be right. They are spaced 1-5/8" center-to-center, leaving only 3/16" between cars. Certainly no room for fingers, but I don't have to worry about a long reach or even very long trains as the spurs will only hold about three or four 40' cars. I decided I wanted to make a little more room away from the edge and from the mainline before I built the turnouts, and I think it's going to look really nice when the yard is filled with hoppers.

I have some other things to finish up around the house over the next three weeks, but eventually I will start experimenting with current sensors and try to decide what I'll use for block occupancy detectors. After that I'll work on the IR detectors (I have a 38kHz variety and want to see how well they work to bounce the beam off the bottom of the cars). Then I'll finally be ready to wire up the servos on this half of the shelf, and get the DCC controllers set up again.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Look at the Digitrax BXPA1 and BXP88 for track occupancy and transponding operations.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> Look at the Digitrax BXPA1 and BXP88 for track occupancy and transponding operations.


I'm kinda lost with all the loconet stuff, can you fill me in? Do the transponder functions with with my existing DCC decoders like the tsunamis I have in my more expensive locos? And how does that report the loco locations back to my computer?

For the occupancy portions, I see it detects cars fitted with wheel resistors, but what's the resolution? Will it give a fairly accurate count of wheel sets in the block once I tell it approximately how many microamps each resistor draws? For comparison, I figure each 10k resistor will draw around 1.5mA and the sensors I'm working with have 15-bit accuracy, so if I have a maximum of 5A per block, the sensors will detect down to 0.15mA. Of course there's going to be huge fluctuations once the loco enters the block, but I can keep a count of the cars entering the block before the loco arrives or after it leaves.

There's also the question of cost. I couldn't find how many blocks the BXPA1 works with, but the BXP88 is rated for 8 blocks. Even if the BXPA1 is also set up for 8 blocks, it seems a bit pricey at $50? The sensors I think I'll be using are $2 each and will detect two isolated blocks each. Paired with two $5 ESP8266's that comes to about $26 to handle all 15 blocks on the shelf. The ESPs can also manage the IR LED sensors in the same area and send all the info over wifi. So that's kind of my baseline for the minimum of what I expect any system to do.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The BXPA1 is an autoreverser and only detects that one block. BPX's are also circuit breakers by the way. They work by just detecting when current is being drawn, the BXP's can't detect individual cars that are in the block. If your using JMRI the BXP's report to it, if your rolling your own then they have an output that will drive an LED or an input to an Arduino. Some occupancy detectors use current coils where the power lead to the block is wrapped around a coil a few times and the circuit senses when there is current flow, some use back to back diodes and note if there is any voltage across the diodes and hence a current draw. There are also IC's the detect current and convert it to a voltage that a A to D can read. Lots of ways to do this, but counting cars in the block would not be easy, even if you knew what each cars resistor was, because of all the other places where resistance will be present (dirty wheels, track wire length ...). I only bring up the BPX's because it['s a known system that works with JMRI and DCC.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Ah yes, I forgot to account for dirty wheels and such. Well at least the system I'm planning to set up has 10x the resolution needed.  I figured each ESP8266 can simply count each step in current draw, regardless of the exact value, to keep track of how many wheel sets appear to be in a block. This should work up to the point where the loco enters the block, but after that I think the fluctuations from the motor will swamp out the ability to detect individual wheel sets.

What I'm hoping to do is add an IR detector at about 3" from the end of each block, which tells the loco it is time to stop what it's doing before it goes off the track. I might also add block detection to the frog within each turnout. Between those various sensors, I'll have enough information to write up a script to have a single loco navigate through all combinations of turnout positions and attempt to map the entire layout. Once I have a table of which blocks neighbor each other, and which turnout positions lead to which other blocks, I should be able to use that to determine that if a train is in this bloc, moving in this direction, the next expected block should be this one... and thus keep a running record of the exact location of each train. (I'll have to expand this a bit to include trains that occupy more than one block at a time.)

This information will also be useful in generating routes -- if I want a train to get from point A to point B, the code can return what path should be taken. More importantly, if any of those blocks are already occupied then I could generate an alternative route (if it exists). The real fun begins when I try to also add collision-avoidance. I'll start by adding signalling for the surrounding blocks, and priorities for each train. But then I have to figure out solutions, such as when two trains approach each other and are stopped -- do I resolve this by having one train back up, or is there an available siding for one train to move to? And that will lead to code which attempts to plan ahead, keeping a timetable of when it thinks each block will be occupied, avoiding a situation where two trains could ever collide.

In my setup, DCC will probably be the only standardized system I'm using (running the locos and turnouts), everything else will be using my own circuitry and code. I'll probably have to include a raspberry pi for the heavy code (I'm thinking of using MQTT to keep a record of all the data), but hopefully I can have the ESP chips handling a lot of the work interpreting the data being received.


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