# DIY Decals



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Does anyone here print their on decals?


----------



## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> Does anyone here print their on decals?


You can but they don't come out very good. The problems are:

1) Ink film thickness on a computer printer is too thin, doesn't have enough density.

2) Colors must be laid down in layers in reverse order.

3) you need a solid background color to hold it all together. Otherwise you will have little pieces if ink floating around in your water.

4) You cannot print white.

R


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply KT! Your comments intrigue me, especially #2. Let me tell you what I'm doing that is working and where my problem is. Maybe you can help me 

I'm using Testor's decal paper and spray bonder. I'm also printing on an HP printer that is capable of printing in 1200 DPI. So far I've been successful at printing all the colors I've tried, but failed with yellow. I wanted custom lettering in yellow for a short line RR. This lettering was going on a Southern Green painted shell. Printed decal, lettering looked nice! Good and bright. Sprayed on bonder, still looked great. But once decal was laid over the green shell, it was if it went invisible!! Looking threw the decal, off the backing paper, I could see the yellow, but not once it was put on shell. What's gives??

Your #2 comment about printing in layers, tell me about that please


----------



## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> Thanks for the reply KT! Your comments intrigue me, especially #2. Let me tell you what I'm doing that is working and where my problem is. Maybe you can help me
> 
> I'm using Testor's decal paper and spray bonder. I'm also printing on an HP printer that is capable of printing in 1200 DPI. So far I've been successful at printing all the colors I've tried, but failed with yellow. I wanted custom lettering in yellow for a short line RR. This lettering was going on a Southern Green painted shell. Printed decal, lettering looked nice! Good and bright. Sprayed on bonder, still looked great. But once decal was laid over the green shell, it was if it went invisible!! Looking threw the decal, off the backing paper, I could see the yellow, but not once it was put on shell. What's gives??
> 
> Your #2 comment about printing in layers, tell me about that please


You have to look at what a background color is made of. The Southern green is made up of Cyan (Reddish blue) and yellow. Therefore you are just adding more yellow to the background green color and since the pigment is microscopically thin it gets overwhelmed and just disappears. This is why it in necessary yo have a strong neutral binding color such as white to set it all off. If you try your decal on something that has a white background it will show up.

You have to take into account the affect that colors have on each other. A printed piece has only three colors (A printer cartridge is tri-colored). Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow. From these three colors all other colors are made by blending them together. For instance I used to print a menu for a pizza place on chrome yellow paper. The printing in a bright green. one day they changed printers on us and came back wanting to know what color ink we were using. We couldn't tell them (trade secret) but we were actually printing it with Cyan (blue) ink and the combination of blue ink on yellow paper produced a brilliant green ink.

R


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks again for the reply. I'm folowwing you on this some what Lol. So I need to print the lettering I want to show up as yellow in a different color right? If so, what color would you suggest? Or a starting color for me to experiment with?


----------



## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> Thanks again for the reply. I'm folowwing you on this some what Lol. So I need to print the lettering I want to show up as yellow in a different color right? If so, what color would you suggest? Or a starting color for me to experiment with?


No, yellow is a primary color and you can't make yellow from another combination of colors. Your printer cartridge has yellow as one of it's three colors. In order to set it off you need to print white underneath it. it could be done by printing an exact copy of the yellow in white ink first and printing the yellow on top of it. Unfortunately you can't print white on a computer printer, only red, blue and yellow. You need to use a printing press or better yet a silkscreen press to get this effect.
Sorry about that.

R


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Nothing to be sorry about, great info!!! Makes me thinking more about this... Wondering if I can get a silk printing shop to do what you outlined above fore me. I had given up on the logo and ordered some microscale yellow letters to finish the project. I just need to get the logo done and loco will be ready. Let be ponder this. Thanks again KT


----------



## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> Nothing to be sorry about, great info!!! Makes me thinking more about this... Wondering if I can get a silk printing shop to do what you outlined above fore me. I had given up on the logo and ordered some microscale yellow letters to finish the project. I just need to get the logo done and loco will be ready. Let be ponder this. Thanks again KT


The best quality would be silk screen since it lays down the thickest ink.

R


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

KT, let me ask you this, you seem to have a lot of knowledge and experience with colors. 

If I made a logo of say a capital "Y" that I wanted to show in yellow. And on that logo I made the background Southern Green, same color as the shell. And say the entire size of the logo was 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch, I then painted the area I wanted this logo in white, and applied logo, in theory, do you think that would work to make the Y show up better because of the white base color? Do you think my green background would be darker because of the southern green already there?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think you'd have a very difficult time getting the green to match properly.


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Gun! You may be right and it is a concern. I'm thinking I may use masking tape and create a stencil of the "Y" and just airbrush it on.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm guessing that would be more successful, and the color match will not be an issue.


----------



## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> KT, let me ask you this, you seem to have a lot of knowledge and experience with colors.
> 
> If I made a logo of say a capital "Y" that I wanted to show in yellow. And on that logo I made the background Southern Green, same color as the shell. And say the entire size of the logo was 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch, I then painted the area I wanted this logo in white, and applied logo, in theory, do you think that would work to make the Y show up better because of the white base color? Do you think my green background would be darker because of the southern green already there?


Yeah, I was in the printing trades for more than 50 years.

The problem is that any color background that in not opaque white will alter the color of the logo. There is no getting around it. Also ink film it too thin to cover so the base color will show through.

Check this out to see the affect color has on colors.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pri...ZEIX64AOI2YC4Dg&ved=0CEQQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=647

R


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Those graphs are interesting. Okay, sounds like my idea of making stencil for the Y is the best option. Thanks buddy!


----------



## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> Thanks for the reply Gun! You may be right and it is a concern. I'm thinking I may use masking tape and create a stencil of the "Y" and just airbrush it on.


I think that if you look at many applications you will see that the colored logos are silk screened directly on the engine to be able to cover the background color.

R


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

I have wondered about that. Another project I'm working on is a SW7 that started life as a BN #127. That number was visible on the outside and inside of the shell. Both in white ink. Inside number was in reverse. I suppose it was stamped from both sides?


----------



## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> I have wondered about that. Another project I'm working on is a SW7 that started life as a BN #127. That number was visible on the outside and inside of the shell. Both in white ink. Inside number was in reverse. I suppose it was stamped from both sides?


Was it a translucent shell?


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

KT I don't think so, but I didn't strip it all the way down. I just removed the numbers and road name and primmered over the rest.


----------



## Jamesgalb (Aug 7, 2013)

Have you tried custom decals Fasha - it might help?
There's a crowd over here:
http://www.steamandthings.com
Steam And Things - they do white, gold etc. etc. and can colour match to your sample
Cheers
James


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Remember..... the white color will not show when you print on the decal paper. Need a special printer for that.


----------



## hoo-t (Apr 30, 2013)

An Alps printer will print white. You would need to print in two passes. One white, and then the yellow on top. But Alps printers are kind of expensive and not being made any more.

One other option would be to use white decal paper. But then you'd have to cut the decal out very carefully to prevent the white from showing on your project. (edit)> You COULD do something of a mixup of a previous idea.... Use the white decal paper, and put a green border around your yellow, matching the green background of your project as close as possible. Then trim the decal as close to the yellow as you can. The small amount of green left on the decal shouldn't be too apparent in the finished project.

Steve

edited to add stuff...


----------



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply James, Carl & hoo-t!

A keep reply to all of you.

Yes sir Jame I ended up going with testor's decal paper and it seemed to work out great. I used it on a custom loco that I just finished, here is a link to that thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=19471

You are correct Carl and I have a real good home HP printer, but could not print on white. ktcards helped me greatly in the first part of this thread by educating me on color! Hats off to him again for that! 

And hoo-t, yea that would be a lot of work, but thanks for the reply


----------

