# Williams Locomotives: Are they good?



## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

I have been looking for an O Gauge MTH BNSF GP38, but they are very expensive.
I found a Williams GP38-201 for 159, but have no experience with Williams locos.
This may sound silly, but are they good?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I have a couple of the Williams locos. They are stump pullers and darn near bullet proof. The detail is not equal to the high end locos but I would not expect them to be at a third of the cost of the high end guys. For trouble free conventional running they are number one in my book.

Bill


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Williams locos are good for what you usually pay. Generally you can get them for well below MSRP. One of their main drawbacks is the jack rabbit starts, but that can be remedied by rewiring the motors to series.


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

Workhorses.
Simple and durable, easy to customize.

Andre.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

The quality is excellent with the Williams engines. Bachmann sells them way overpriced on their website, try an internet vendor as you can save about 40% of the price with an internet vendor.
Detailing is not as good as MTH or Lionel but for the money Williams work very good and have metal gears.

The only drawback that I have found with some older Williams passenger cars is the truck assemblies need replacing, mainly the ones that have fixed couplers from the Crown Edition era. The other problem I have run into on occasion is with the GP-9 engines, the couplers won't stay closed so I tie wrap the couplers in place.

I have around 14 Williams engines and around 21 Williams passenger cars and over 12 Williams freight cars. I bought 2 of the Plasticville hoppers & 1 Plasticville tank car when they were offered by Williams or Williams/Bachmann.

I read where some people wire the motors in series, it can be done without too much work but I have never had the need for slowing down any of my Williams engines. Most of the time I need a second powered engine to pull a train with, even though I am using a post war ZW or an MTH Z-1000 with my Williams engines.

Lee Fritz


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

I'm a conventional operator and am in agreement with what's been posted about Williams engines. I have only one, an F1 ABA with the front unit powered. For what I paid, it's been trouble-free and is an excellent runner and puller.

I purchased it slightly used on Ebay a couple of years ago, with the motors already wired in series and the True Blast II sound board installed. 

For conventional operation, it's been a dream. You can easily fix and maintain it yourself, with parts readily available from Bachmann. I like the fact that I can pull out either motor with the removal of just one motor mount screw and easily grease the internal motor gearing (about every 30 hours of run time).

The detailing is also excellent for the price. I'm very pleased with this Williams locomotive, which is my only diesel that hasn't required parts replacement from a factory-trained technician. I can just do it myself.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

I have the "El Capitan" set by Williams with 2 F-7 A units (powered) and 1 B unit with QSI sounds(Crown Edition). The passenger cars are a 6 car set, so I need both A units powered. Bought them about 14 years ago new in box from an independent Williams dealer for $400.00 for all 9 pieces.

Also have; 4 powered SD-45's(one Pennsy, 3 Reading Lines), and 4 more F-7's (one powered and 3 unpowered)for Reading RR, and 3 GP-38's(2 powered and 1 unpowered), and 2 GP-9's(one powered and one unpowered) in Reading RR.
Have 2 sets of Reading King Coal passenger cars from the Crown Edition era.

I was considering buying the power up-grade kits from Bachmann/Williams but at almost $200.00 an engine that's a lot of money to upgrade my fleet to all powered engines. I have about 5 or 6 unpowered engines, so at $200.00 a pop that's about $1200.00.

Lee Fritz


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Williams are great engines. They're reliable and can pull a lot of cars. The only drawback if the quick starts and there are cures for that. Some of the older ones did not have flywheels and were prone to abrupt stopping. For a conventional operator, it's the best bang for the buck. I haven't done it but if you want digital control they can be upgraded for additional cost. I believe Gun Runner John has upgraded a few,


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have some Williams stuff, most of mine have gotten command upgrades, but they've been very reliable. As others have said, not as finely detailed as the more expensive spread, but very nice products just the same.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

The new Williams have engine sounds and the detail is getting better. If your interested in a RS3, Trainworld is selling them for 199 or something like that. I have the New GE 44 Toner, I love it and sounds amazing. I have at least 7 of the older Williams(2008-2013), I don't run them that much anymore because the lack of sounds. Those locos were built to last unless they are used daily in which case our club uses them for track cleaning.


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

I have 2 Williams engines, a scale GGI in PC livery and an Alco FA ABBA in Lehigh & New England livery.....I bring them to run on the club layout at venues that are dusty.....the Williams engines are fantastic performers and bullet-proof.
Peter


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

I have the Williams scale GG1 in Pennsy Tuscan 5-stripe. I love that engine.  It is one Williams engine that doesn't suffer from jackrabbit starts and is a great running engine. In addition, it's a GG1 -- What can I say. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

They are or they are not, depending on what is important to you. WBB locos are close to bulletproof and extremely bulletproof. Their reputation is that they run and run and give few or no problems. On the other hand of six I have, one has had two motors replaced, and another had a smoke unit die, so go figure. 

They are not as detailed as are best Lionel's Legacy and MTHs Premier and Imperial locos. They look okay but side by side with those others and the difference shows. Still, they are well painted and colorful. Many are not exactly scale size, but many of the diesels are (or close enough). But of course, they don't cost nearly as much and that is nice. 

One of the reasons I have few of them, is that they have no, or poorer sound, than MTH and Lionel - WBB's best is worse than MTH's and Lionel's worst current sound. Sound is important to me, I love really good chuffing or diesel sound. Smoke is nothing special (but that is not as important to me as good sound. 

My major gripe though, is speed and control. Most jackrabbit on starting and tend to run fast. I like to run locos at low speeds, scale 25 mph maybe and even lower, and WBB aren't as smooth at low speeds with as much linear control (in conventional) as Lionel and MTH. It is possible to take apart the diesels and rewire them to somewhat mitigate this, but still, even in conventional, a Lionel or MTH Premier runs slower, with more linear control at low speeds, for me.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

They also don't have cruise, as far as I know. I have come to find a lack of it annoying on some of my loops, which go up and down alot.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I converted my Williams scale GG-1 to ERR Cruise and the ERR GG-1 sounds, it's a nice running rig now. The detailing on the scale GG-1 isn't that bad, it's a good looking unit.


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## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

Thanks so much to all of you for all the positive comments.
I will go forward with Williams purchases with great confidence.
Roger


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

The Williams engines that I have do run very well. No quality issue other then having to tie wrap the coupler in place on one of my GP-9's.
Unlike others I have never found the need to slow down any of my Williams engines.

However there is one problem with the level of detailing: it is being consistent with the prototype engine for what ever railroad they are for. Major issue is that not all railroads used a GP-9 or a GP-38, some used a GP-7 or a GP-39-2, but WBB makes the GP-9 or GP-38 for that railroad anyway. The other issue is the N5c caboose, not every railroad had an N5c caboose! WBB only makes an N5c caboose for O scale.
Where are the work caboose or bay window caboose for O scale? They have them in H.O. scale, look on Bachmann's website.

Not trying to blast Williams but telling the truth about their products.

Lee Fritz


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

I have heard good things about Williams, so much so that recently I bought 2 steamers, one being a Blue Comet. I haven't been able to run them yet so I couldn't comment there, but one thing that's attracted me to them are their open spoke drivers. I like that. 

Someday I'll get the wherewithal to take & post some pix.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

The other draw back with Williams is the steam engines don't have good smoke output. However their steam engine will outpull most other brands of engines in their respective sizes.

Lee Fritz


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

here's my williams, before bachmann, scale berk.
smooth runner, great puller, looks good, decent smoke, best price!!


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## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

cole226 said:


> here's my williams, before bachmann, scale berk.
> smooth runner, great puller, looks good, decent smoke, best price!!


That is one beautiful locomotive.
Thanks for posting the pics.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

herkulese said:


> I have been looking for an O Gauge MTH BNSF GP38, but they are very expensive.
> I found a Williams GP38-201 for 159, but have no experience with Williams locos.
> This may sound silly, but are they good?


Is the engine a Williams or Williams by Bachmann?
Most of the Williams before Bachmann came with True Blast 2 sound system, some had just a horn, depends on how old.
If it is a Williams by Bachmann it will have at least a True Blast 2 sound system, if the more current release from Bachmann it may have True Blast Plus which Bachmann claims is better. I don't have the newer WBB engine so I can't say about the new sound system.

Lee Fritz


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The TB+ has prime mover sounds.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Williams has some solid stuff. Not my cup of tea without dcs but I've heard very good things. The only thing I did hear is some of their smoke units on the steamers aren't the greatest


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

I really like the ones released prior to 2013.
Great price and great runners.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The TB+ has prime mover sounds.


Is that some what similar to the QSI sound system in the Crown Edition? The Crown Edition had diesel engine sounds in the QSI version usually in the B unit of an ABA set of diesel engines, also had horn and bell features.

Lee Fritz


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I just wish that they had some sort of rc type of interface.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

phillyreading said:


> Is that some what similar to the QSI sound system in the Crown Edition? The Crown Edition had diesel engine sounds in the QSI version usually in the B unit of an ABA set of diesel engines, also had horn and bell features.
> 
> Lee Fritz


I never had a QSI equipped one, but the TB+ is a single board that just does audio. The Williams scale 44-ton has a small version of the board, decent sounds from a pretty small board.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I never had a QSI equipped one, but the TB+ is a single board that just does audio. The Williams scale 44-ton has a small version of the board, decent sounds from a pretty small board.


The older QSI sound system in the Crown Edition diesels worked along with track voltage, if the voltage was over 10 volts the engine revving sound increased and when lowered to 10 volts or less it decreased. Also could only do bell at lower voltage and horn at above 10 volts, along with engine revving sounds was an announcement(when first powered up) about" leaving on track 10, all clear to leave" or "clear to leave on track 10, watch your speed."

I am not familiar with the new TB-plus sound system other then to know there is one, have never heard one in use.

Lee Fritz


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