# Block setup



## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

In setting up my new HO layout how do you setup for different blocks and what determines the different blocks? Thanks


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

First, I assume that you are NOT using DCC to control your locomotives. If you are using DCC, you do not need blocks (except for reversing loops).

Second, I assume that you want to run 2 different locomotives simultaneously, If you only ever want to run one locomotive at a time, you do not need blocks.

Blocks are isolated sections of track that are controlled separately. The blocks are isolated by using insulating rail joiners. Where you put the blocks is determined by your track plan and how you want to run trains. There are some specific guidelines that I don't have handy right now. Others will probably chime in on that.

Wiring blocks requires a separate feed line from the control panel to each block -- for one side of the track -- the other side can be a common line with one feed line for all blocks. (Reversing loops are a separate situation.)

At the control panel, each block requires a SPDT-center off switch. The switch is used to control which transformer (you need 2) is controlling that block at any time.

That's the basics. What more specific questions do you have?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Are you planning DCC or DC? The block set up is specific for each
system.

How big will your layout be?

Don


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Was thinking initially DC and going to DCC later as it requires more investment in the controls and decoders I would have to put in my engines.

My layout is a horseshoe type shape. The largest the main section I will call it; facing it is 4' deep by 8' wide. The left side is 3' wide x 4' deep (butts up to the left face of the 8' wide sheet) total depth then 8'. The right side is 2' wide by 4' deep (butts up to the right face of the 8' wide sheet) total depth then 8'. It has two figure eights with turnouts that allow for a train to navigate both figure eights and onto an outside mainline that goes around the perimeter of the 4' x 8' section and the 3' x 4' section. The 2' x 4' section is for yard activities. This is accessed to the mainline through turnouts.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Blocks are pretty much the same for any scales. They are simply electrically isolated sections of track each independently powered.

You can have as many or as few as you want but typically they each have a particlar reason for existing. For example a siding you would not want powered when a train was merely idling to let another pass, so your siding would be electrically isolated from the main line with plastic rail joiners (only need to insulate/isolate one rail). You would power your siding only as you are moving a train onto or off of it.

Because you only isolate a single rail your control panel need only have single pole switches to power each section.

You can devise your own control panel and there are many books to help or you can use pre-made Atlas switches (control switches) which have multiple configurations for reversing loops and can be 'daisy chained' for simplicity.


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## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

I've recently found myself needing to wire a block on my layout and need some clarification on the wiring, I get the one rail/common rail wiring but if I want to control forward and reverse in any said block wouldn't you need to isolate both rails?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm struggling to see how you can get 2 figure eights 
and other tracks on the layout you describe. Seems like you would
have some pretty tight radii.

Have you tried fitting the track to your table to see how
it goes?

Any way to show us the track plans? Maybe draw them with
a felt tip pen on a sheet of paper then photograph it so you
can post it.

When you have figure eights connecting with ovals you can 
accidentally create a reverse loop, and that would need 
some special switches and wiring on a DC layout.

Will you have 2 power packs? If you want to run 2 trains
at the same time on those fig. 8s you would want to isolate
them and have switches to enable either power pack to
feed them. But couldn't do any details without exact plans.

Don


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

gator do 65 said:


> I've recently found myself needing to wire a block on my layout and need some clarification on the wiring, I get the one rail/common rail wiring but if I want to control forward and reverse in any said block wouldn't you need to isolate both rails?


The simplest way to control forward and reverse is to use the direction switch on the transformer. If your transformer does not have a direction switch, you will need to add one to your control panel.

The direction switch just reverses the DC polarity, which changes the direction of the motor and hence the train. The direction switch will only change the polarity of the blocks that are "assigned" to that transformer.

When I was learning all of this, I used the Kalmbach: Easy Model Railroad Wiring, 2nd ed. 1999

http://www.amazon.com/Railroad-Wiri...r=8-2&keywords=kalmbach+model+railroad+wiring

This is an excellent book on all aspects of DC wiring, laid out for beginners up to more advanced problems (like reversing loops and turntables). There is a short section on DCC, but it is not complete.

There is a new book out now that concentrates on DCC wiring and control

http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Wiring-...r=8-1&keywords=kalmbach+model+railroad+wiring


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Don,
I have some pics but how do I attach them to my post?


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Attached I hope are the pictures of my layout thus far. Thanks, john


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

gator do 65 said:


> I've recently found myself needing to wire a block on my layout and need some clarification on the wiring, I get the one rail/common rail wiring but if I want to control forward and reverse in any said block wouldn't you need to isolate both rails?


Gator, I've never been a fan of flipping the direction switch on the transformer to do anything but change direction the engine is running. Polarity control should be a different issue. I chose to deal with it by using DPDT center-off toggles mounted on my control panels that fed both rails in each block and DPST switches in the lower corner to control which transformer was powering the block I was about to enter. Here's a down-and-dirty quick sketch:

View attachment 37502


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## Northern Route (May 12, 2014)

I think by the time you build a control panel, buy all of the switches, rolls of wire you are going to have just as much or more money in the block control as you would have in an entry level DCC system such as NCE Power Cab and a few wires. You mentioned you might do DCC later, you may as well do it now. Block control is cumbersome and if you switch to DCC you kick your self for not doing it in the first place instead of spending all that money twice.
Curtis


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

To Flyerrich:

I sketched out your layout from the pictures. Then I simplified the diagram (not the layout) by removing all sidings and distorting the track so as to eliminate the over-and-under bridge. This helped me to visualize the traffic pattern on your layout.

You have two reversing loops, One is obvious in Picture #2. The other is the loop that goes under the bridge in picture #5. The cool part about the 2nd reversing loop is that it is optional. There are two crossover sections heading into the loop. If you skip both crossovers, you don't reverse the direction of travel. If you take either one of the crossovers, you reverse the direction of travel on the mainline. If you take BOTH crossovers, you go through the loop in the opposite direction, but you don't reverse the direction of travel on the mainline. This means that you can reverse the direction of your mainline train using only the 2nd reversing loop, regardless of which way the train is already traveling.

You probably knew all of this already, but going though this helped me (and perhaps others) understand your layout.

Since you have reversing loops, you will need to block them, even if you use DCC. I don't do DCC, and the double crossover optional reversing loop is too complicated for my old brain to figure out how many blocks you will need. So I must defer to others on the question of where to put your insulated rail joiners.

Since you only have one mainline, if you run DC, you can only run one train continuously at a time -- unless you have short trains, lots of small blocks and are very quick with the block switching.

I like your layout. Layouts where you have to think carefully to figure out where trains can and can not go intrigue me.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Atlas makes a variety of switch assemblies for block control. They interconnect easily and are far less trouble and expense than wiring individual switches.

http://shop.atlasrr.com/c-1106-ho-switch-controls.aspx










One 0215 and one 0220, total cost $22.90, will control 4 track blocks between two transformers (run two engines simultaneously), provide reversing switches for both transformers and a reversing loop controller. Can't touch DCC for that and it's far less hassle to maintain.


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

thanks for all the help and suggestions


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## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

Jesteck,
Thank you for clarifying my thoughts. My set up is not that complicated to require the extra switches as I will dedicate my transformers "A" for mainline and "B" for the siding by using a DPDT with no center off, this way I can run both the mainline and siding from "A" or isolate the siding to run from "B" only this will allow my future plans to have spurs off the siding. I hope that makes sense?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

As MTrr pointed out you have reverse loops. Have you isolated these
and determined the electrical switches you'll need to make them work using
the DC system? If you were running DCC you'd need a reverse controller
for each and operation would be totally automatic. With DC the only way
you can run trains through them is by manually flipping DPDT switches each
time the loco goes thru one.

You do have a very interesting layout. You definitely will want to
isolate the 2 mainlines so you can run trains on either or even
both at the same time with 2 power packs. But your wiring is going
to be fairly complex to do so and so will be your operations.

If there's any way for you to do it, I'd definitely go with DCC. That would
mean you only isolate the reverse loops. But for a layout the size of yours
it would be recommended that you further isolate the 2 main lines with
a circuit breaker in each feed. You would want to have track drops to
a buss every 5 or so feet on each track, except the reverse loops.

I see locos sitting on your tracks. Have you had them running the whole
layout successfully? Were there any 'event's when you ran them?

Don


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

no trains running they are on the tracks just for running them throught the turnout and such to check for smoothness of joints.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

flyerrich said:


> no trains running they are on the tracks just for running them throught the turnout and such to check for smoothness of joints.


The reason I asked is the concern about the reverse loops. 

I wondered if you had tried to run your loco through them. Without
special circuitry and insulated joiners to isolate them you will
have a short circuit when you power all of the tracks.

Because of these reverse loops, 
I would strongly urge you to rethink the DC power and go to
DCC from the get go. That's the only way you can use a reverse loop without
complicated wiring and the need to flip switches back and
forth when a loco goes thru one. With DCC and a reverse loop
controller for each everything is automatic, you don't have to
do anything and your locos run right thru without pausing or
even blinking.

Don


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks Don,
Your comments as with the others are well taken. This forum certainly gives one a lot of info and learning from others errors certainly helps. I will give serious consideration to DCC. Where do I learn about the wiring for DCC you refer to for reverse loops etc.
So many questions!!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

DCC reverse loop wiring is very simple. As a matter
of fact, wiring for DCC is very simple.

The reverse loop controller will have 2 wires in and 2 wires
out. The input wires are connected to your main track
buss from the main controller. The output wires go to the isolated track.
That's all there is to it. It's operation is totally automatic.

Now you have a fair sized layout. You'll want even power distribution at all points on your layout. To accomplish this you'll want to run a buss line from your controller (or booster if you use one) straight up
to the 'top' of your layout from the controller and a connected buss each way from that to each end of the layout. You'll want to have a track drop to the buss every 4 or 5 feet all around the layout
(except the reverse loops). That's all there is to it. No need for
a bunch of DPDT switches and the like as used in DC wiring.

It is important to keep the drops and buss in phase (polarity).
If you use colored wires, red and black, for example, for
all of your track wiring it will help keep you in phase.

Now, some would accurately advise isolating more of 
your layout into 'blocks' with some form of circuit
breaker between a sub buss and the main buss. But that's
something you can add later if you feel the need for it.
It might be helpful to install insulated joiners now where you
intend to have future blocks to make that easy when it's
time.

You might read the various threads in the DCC forum to
learn more about DCC. Keep in mind
that some of our members are very sophisticated in their
DCC layouts and have some complicated systems. Don't let
those discussions scare you. At this point you won't need to
be concerned with much of that equipment. That would be
something to think about in the future.

If you have any other questions fire away.

Don


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## alvin (Feb 6, 2013)

*trouble shootng on block*

Hy there all of you,:confused
I am making block section on my layout in DC.
Trouble is that when the engine cross the insulate joint it stop.
When the engine is on the block, it runs good.
polarity is OK all around the layout even on the block section.
The blocks are powered by different controlers.
If I cross the insulate joint fast enough the engine will cross but at a very slow pace
then when on the block it is running good


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

The problem is that Train #1 should NOT cross from block A controlled by Transformer #1 to Block B controlled by Transformer #2. That can cause damage to your locomotive.

Instead, Transformer #1 should be used to control ALL of Train #1's movements. If you only have one train, hook up all of the blocks to the same transformer.

But when you want to run two trains simultaneously, Train #2 should ALWAYS be controlled by transformer #2. (and Train #1 by Transformer #1 -- no matter where they go).

To accomplish this each block must be wired to a toggle switch (SPDT-CenterOFF). These switches allow you to choose which transformer is powering each block. So as Train #2 makes its way around the layout, you must switch the next block in its pathway to Transformer #2. After that train passes, if Train #1 is approaching the same block, you must switch that block back to Transformer #1.

This is why DC with two trains takes a lot of switches and wiring. When you start using turnouts, you get more switches to throw when running trains. This is why some prefer DCC, which is much simpler to wire, but more expensive.


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