# The Diesel Shell Market - 'Let's Make a Product Line'



## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Ever since another thread awoke me to the Replacement Shell Market, thinking about a product line centered around it has occupied a good portion of my spare time. Indeed, it seems that this market isn't very well exploited by most of the major manufacturers. The only place I can fin that actually sells replacement shells meant to allow one chassis to represent a different locomotive is a small operation on eBay.

Therefore, I've begun trying to think up what kinds of shells would be the most sought after and what mechanisms they should fit on. I've composed the list below (with helpful illustrations). Tell me what you guys think, and if you have any suggestions for shells you'd like to see. 

The approach is to sell shells for locomotives which aren't made by traditional locomotives, such as the NW3 or DL-202, thus capturing a completely untapped portion of the market. This will combine with having the shells fit on popular locomotive chassis to make modeling that much easier, even if not 100% prototypically correct.

ALCO DL-202 and DL-203 (A Unit and B Unit)








Basically a four-axle version of the DL-109, the direct predecessors to the FA units. Could be used in both Freight and Passenger operations.

Only two A units and one B unit ever made. Would be a great unit for a freelancer or an ALCO fan.

Chassis: Proto 2000 or MTH FA Unit

EMD NW3








A stretched switcher locomotive with a water heater for branchline passenger service.

Seven units made for Great Northern. Would be an excellent piece for running small passenger trains if you want something different than an RS-1 or Geep.

Chassis: Bachmann or Athearn GP-7

EMD NW4








A switcher equipped with a water heater for switching passenger cars. 

Two units made for the Missouri Pacific. Would be great for switching your passenger yard, or just as a distinctive unit.

Chassis: Bowser S-8 

EMD NW5








Basically EMD's direct answer to the RS-1, the NW5 was very similar to that unit in its configuration.

Ten locomotives were used by the Great Northern, with one going to the Southern and the last two to Union Belt of Detroit. Would make a great passenger unit for die-hard EMD fans.

Chassis: Bachmann or Athearn GP-7

EMD E2 (A Unit and B Unit)








Early E units with an aggressive 'bulldog' nose.

Two sets of A-B-B units were produced for the City of San Francisco and the City of Los Angeles. The E2 unit would be great for modelers of those trains in the pre-war era, or any other pre-war passenger diesel model, since similar units were used by other roads like the B&O and ATSF.

Chassis: Bachmann or BLI E6/E7

Baldwin DR-4-4-1500 'Babyface' (A Unit and B Unit)








Baldwin's answer to the F-unit, the DR-4-4-1500 is known more popularly in its 'Sharknose' configuration as used by the Pennsylvania, though it was also produced in a 'Babyface' style.

33 units were constructed overall, including 15 CNJ units, 12 units for the Missouri Pacific and 6 for the New York Central. This unit would be great for Baldwin diesel fans or those who enjoy Baldwins but not the sharp lines of the sharknose.

Chassis: Bachmann or BLI RF-16 'Sharknose'


That's just a few I could come up with. Tell me any suggestions you guys have!

Thanks for any replies,

Dreadnought


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I suppose you've looked into tooling costs for the shells?
A lot of obscure locomotives there......do you think that you could sell enough, at a "reasonable" price, to pay for the expensive tooling?


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

This wouldn't be a mass production sort of thing, of course. I don't think it would be done with massive molding machines in the way you're supposing, Hobo, but perhaps some other method. As you've supposed, that method is poorly suited for this market.

It's only a thought, after all.


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## slammin (Mar 25, 2016)

Tooling costs for injection molded models are VERY expensive, tens of thousands of dollars. 20 to 30 years ago many US companies went to China for their mold tooling, paying 10% of what US firms would charge. Because of higher Chinese labor cost today, you won't find those savings. Thats why Westerfield and several other producers of obscure freight cars use resin castings. Many loco producers pre-sell their new models, so they know they will cover the tooling costs.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Indeed, I believe that's why Rapido cancelled their five-axle C-liners a few years back. I was really looking forward to having one.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I know absolutely nothing about 3D printing. Could that be an alternative to injection molding? Could that maybe be the answer to low order numbers? :dunno:


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

That was a thought I had, Fire, but so far as I know 3D printing is mostly a prototype, not a production tool. That's a pretty common misconception. It may be different in this case, as we are talking absurdly low numbers in terms of production - maybe 20 or 25 at a time - but there's also the problem that 3D printing works by layering, so it is hard to get a smooth surface, at least with the 3D printers I've seen.

Someone who has more experience will be able to enlighten us further, I'm sure. I have seen a super high-end 3D printer that could print with more than one material. I saw it print off a complete pair of shoes, that were ready to wear (with the addition of laces). Pretty impressive, but also pretty expensive.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

*Another suggestion*

There's also the EMD TR1: A cow-calf setup described as "the machinery of an FT in a switcher body". There were two sets made for the Illinois Central. My old "Diesel Spotter's Guide" points out the similarity between the cab unit and the NW3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_TR1


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dreadnought said:


> That was a thought I had, Fire, but so far as I know 3D printing is mostly a prototype, not a production tool. That's a pretty common misconception. It may be different in this case, as we are talking absurdly low numbers in terms of production - maybe 20 or 25 at a time - but there's also the problem that 3D printing works by layering, so it is hard to get a smooth surface, at least with the 3D printers I've seen.
> 
> Someone who has more experience will be able to enlighten us further, I'm sure. I have seen a super high-end 3D printer that could print with more than one material. I saw it print off a complete pair of shoes, that were ready to wear (with the addition of laces). Pretty impressive, but also pretty expensive.


Fortunately (or not) your information is fairly out of date. 3D printing is much more than a prototype. There are several commercial companies that will print 3D designs submitted to them. Shapeways is one of the biggest.

Most printers can use more than one material... just that doing it on the same model requires a really high-end machine. Most models would be more like "cast on" detail. I would think that your best bet would be to sell a 3D printed shell and send a bag of superdetailing parts with it. Again, with higher quality machines and higher quality materials, you do not get that ribbed appearance with the layers visible. And that's the beauty of a place like Shapeways -- you get to use high end printers without incurring the high investment and overhead costs (although you do pay for those in the price you pay to print the part).

The chief drawback of current 3D printing technology is the time required. Once the molds are developed, an injection-molded plastic model takes seconds to create; cast resin only a minute or so (including mixing the resin compound). 3D printing, on the other hand, takes about 4 hours to create a high quality (i.e., no layer lines or dimples) plastic figurine an inch high.

And then, of course, there's the licensing cost to consider. If you're going to use a real prototype paint scheme, chances are someone owns the rights to it, and you would have to pay them a licensing fee. Even "Fallen Flag" schemes are usually the property of the railroad that acquired their assets.

My take on this is that it isn't going to be a cheap alternative to purchasing several locomotives, but a high-priced collectors item which costs much more than a mass produced locomotive.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

There's an idea, I had forgotten about Shapeways. I've never owned one of those models before, so I'm not sure on the quality. An interest of a few years ago (Axis and Allies Naval Miniatures) was really big on Shapeways, but those are 1/800 ship models which can run you ~$20 each if you get 'Frosted Ultra Detail'. Perhaps this could be a Shapeways shop sort of thing, though I'd really have to look into the cost of producing one-piece shells of the size appropriate for HO scale.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

*Small production prototype locomotives*

I'm not convinced that prototypes produced in small numbers (like the NW3 and NW5) would necessarily sell poorly. Back in the days of "blue box kits", Athearn made an HO SDP40. I had one in GN Big Sky Blue. How many did EMD actually make? 20 - six to GN, and 14 more exported to Mexico. I also had an F45 to go with it . EMD made a few more of those - 86 - for three customers: GN, BN and ATSF.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dreadnought said:


> There's an idea, I had forgotten about Shapeways. I've never owned one of those models before, so I'm not sure on the quality. An interest of a few years ago (Axis and Allies Naval Miniatures) was really big on Shapeways, but those are 1/800 ship models which can run you ~$20 each if you get 'Frosted Ultra Detail'. Perhaps this could be a Shapeways shop sort of thing, though I'd really have to look into the cost of producing one-piece shells of the size appropriate for HO scale.


"Frosted ultra detail" is actually a fairly soft plastic with a low melting point, and it willl have a stippled surface which will be unacceptable to most. I forget the exact term, but it's called premium grade, or some such. The figures that i get that are printed in it are black.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

GNfan said:


> I'm not convinced that prototypes produced in small numbers (like the NW3 and NW5) would necessarily sell poorly. Back in the days of "blue box kits", Athearn made an HO SDP40. I had one in GN Big Sky Blue. How many did EMD actually make? 20 - six to GN, and 14 more exported to Mexico. I also had an F45 to go with it . EMD made a few more of those - 86 - for three customers: GN, BN and ATSF.


You might have a point....to a certain degree; what the "real" companies make often has no direct correlation with what a model company can/will sell of a particular model.....

For instance, take military models....in WWII, the "real" German Tiger I tanks only numbered a little over 1300 +/-.....but, I would guess there's been millions of models of the Tiger sold by a great number of model manufacturers over the years. That might be mostly due to the "cool" factor of the Tiger though....

As for trains, a dog is still a dog......IMHO.....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> You might have a point....to a certain degree; what the "real" companies make often has no direct correlation with what a model company can/will sell of a particular model.....
> 
> For instance, take military models....in WWII, the "real" German Tiger I tanks only numbered a little over 1300 +/-.....but, I would guess there's been millions of models of the Tiger sold by a great number of model manufacturers over the years. That might be mostly due to the "cool" factor of the Tiger though....
> 
> As for trains, a dog is still a dog......IMHO.....


That's very true -- Alco's DL-109 only ever had some 62 units produced (74 if you include the related and visually similar DL-103, 105, and 107 models), 60 of which were owned and used by the New Haven RR. There are many more models available than this, including many in liveries that never existed.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Just throwing this out, but what about creating a CAD file for a 3D printer, then selling the CAD file, customer can find their own printing service. Myself personally, what I would like to find, is 1/87 farm equipment, that I can print out, then paint and decal myself.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

That's another idea, ncrc. I'm not sure if Shapeways allows you to send in just a singular file, though, but I must admit I'm not familiar with their process, nor that of any other service like that. So, it might work.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Dreadnought said:


> That's another idea, ncrc. I'm not sure if Shapeways allows you to send in just a singular file, though, but I must admit I'm not familiar with their process, nor that of any other service like that. So, it might work.


Most of the services that I'm familiar with, will allow you to do one item, or multiples.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Here's an example:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/D...3-wabtec-cab?optionId=43236042&li=marketplace


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dreadnought said:


> That's another idea, ncrc. I'm not sure if Shapeways allows you to send in just a singular file, though, but I must admit I'm not familiar with their process, nor that of any other service like that. So, it might work.


Yes, they do. You just have to use a file format that they can work with without any conversion or manipulation.


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## slammin (Mar 25, 2016)

Dreadnought,
I just read your babyface post. It made me think of another fellow producing shells. There was a thread about him on the MRR site. Some posted complaints of his being direct copies of other manufacturers offerings. I can't remember his name, but maybe someone here will chime in. Occasionally I would run across one of his shells offered on eBay. IIRC his prices were under $30.00 If I find more info, I'll PM you.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

slammin,
I have heard of the now infamous 'Big Dawg Originals'. The situation is complex but this post explains it all: http://www.bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9284

I didn't know people would 'pirate' model trains. Apparently his quality is abysmal, so that might be why his prices are so absurdly low.

Dreadnought


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