# HO layout planning 2.0



## Eaglepilot6 (Oct 26, 2015)

I've ditched the 4x8 sheet idea in exchange for an around the walls plan. I'd like some experienced analysis of possible errors in my layout plan before I buy the supplies and start the build. The room I will will using is only 10'x10'

The important characteristics we'd like to incorporate into our layout are...
1) continuous run
2) Focus on natural scenery (would like water features, note the bridges on right side). Location is planned to look Appalachian, southern US.
3) Historical looking structures, including scratchbuilt covered bridge if possible (road or train). Era will be late 1800s-1920s.

I will need to be able to move the layout when we move in a few years. Right now I'm planning on making it in 3 modules, with the possibility of shelves to store 2 modules under the largest section (the one with the yard). The yard/staging scene is to be separated from the main portion using a scenery break. I'm planning on running DC to start and maybe upgrading the DCC in the future expansion when space allows. Are there any tricky wiring spots in the current configuration? 

The first image is the trackwork, second is planned benchwork using 1x4s or 1x3s. The last image is just a rough up of possible buildings and terrain.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If a move is in your future I would suggest that
your modules should be easily loaded. I see a couple
places where, with little change to your benchwork
plans, you could make some easier to handle.

Also, don't use any nails. Use screws and bolts. These
also will help you when move time comes.

I don't see any tricky wiring problems in the layout
in your post. It's basically a straightforward large
dog bone oval. Often a modeler with a layout like
yours will want to add a crossover at a spot such
as the long straight on the right. This would create
'reverse loops' and complicate your wiring. However,
it would add interest to your layout. If you elect to
go that way we can guide your hand with the wiring.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Unfortunately, I'm at work, so while I assume you've posted a plan, I can't see it.  I'll try to have a look later.

Some generic comments, though. First, I think you'll be glad you ditched the 4x8 format. Around the room just generates so many more possibilities.

Second, it's hard to make a "mistake". There might be areas that could be improved, but there's very little that can be "wrong" if the layout does what you want it to.

Finally, the only really tricky wiring situation is the reverse loop. This occurs when you can run a train continuously forward but can end up back on the same section of track heading the opposite direction, usually the result of a crossover or a balloon coming off one turnout. In DCC, this isn't even that tricky; it just requires an extra component.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

Lots of action! Looks like it could be a lot of fun. I agree with Don though that I see a few areas where your module proposals could be problematic. Some of my observations:


You have some turnouts either crossing over the edge/gap where 2 modules meet or right next to the edge of a module. This is asking for trouble. I personally would plan to get a turnout at least 4" away from a module edge, if possible
Planning curved track across a module gap could also be very tricky. Make sure you end your curves on each module a few inches from the edge, so you can just connect them with a small 6" piece of flex track in between. If you could plan to have straight track across the module gaps instead, that's even better.
Some of your sidings look too short - Like you can't even fit 1 freight car + a loco on them. I would plan to avoid a scenario where your loco has to sit in the middle of a turnout to decouple your freight car(s). Plan your turnouts further up the line to allow more track length to the termination points, so your loco will clear the entire turnout and allow another loco to pass by to another siding


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

One comment on your track plan, if you want to run more than one train at a time, I would suggest that you make a good passing area. There's a couple of ways to do that. You could add a passing siding along the top or right edge. Or you could add a couple of turnouts to tie the mainline into the industrial area in the top center of your layout.

Mark


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## Eaglepilot6 (Oct 26, 2015)

Good comments, keep them coming! I didn't even notice the turnouts on module edges. Would a passing siding fit between the dual bridges and corner at bottom right? In the current plan, the industry spur in the middle of the right loop is just that, a spur. Would it be weird to have the crossover from that track to the right side "main line"?


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## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

Looks great, my only concern would be the two un-supported outside corners.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

one thing I'll add , having belonged to a modular club that had mods set up in a permanent location, is don't use 1 by 4 use 3/4 ply first modules we built has 1 by 4 frames and as weather changed so did the frames causing us to have to realign them , so we all redid modules in 3/4 by 4 plywood strips and ended aliment problems as weather changed.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Might be a good change if you don't have a climate
controlled layout room.

Climate can have a lot to do with other aspects of
a model. Corrosion. Loss of electrical conductivity.
Damage to plaster scenery.

I have a year round climate controllzed train room. I
have had no distortion of my 1 X 3 benchwork.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Since you're in Atlanta, you probably have a more-or-less climate controlled space. Sealing your benchwork with paint or varnish / polyurethane will prevent all but very minor expansion and contraction issues. Allow the wood to acclimatize to the space before you build it (IOW, don't build the frames out in your humid garage and then take them into your air conditioned house to assemble).

You have a couple of options for passing sidings. Where you have that long, snaking siding that comes off the lower left, add a turnout pair further up to connect the parallel tracks. You could also use the industry spur on the right as you are envisioning. Would it be "weird"? Well, does it work for you? If so, then it's not weird. What you have right now is a nice continuous loop with a fair bit of switching potential. That's what you want, right? So any track configuration that supports that is good. If you're concerned with being more prototypical, well, then we have some work to do, but it doesn't sound like that's a concern for you (and there is no reason it should be -- we all do what we like).

My only other concern is that you can't turn trains. Once clockwise, always clockwise (or vice versa). Are you sure you're ok with that? If not, you need to put a crossover or a reversing loop in there somewhere. A reversing loop could be created out of the industrial spur in the middle of the right hand balloon -- bend the siding to the right to follow the rightmost track, and re-connect it with a curved turnout on the bottom of the loop, although this might violate your minimum curve radius. Another option would be to remove the tunnel at the top and install two pairs of turnouts to make crossovers, one at either end of the top straight section.

Two other thoughts: The yard is rather small, and doesn't really allow you to do much. You could gain room for a few more tracks by eliminating the long siding on the right of the left side balloon, realign the main to the right, and add some more tracks. If you could scrounge up another foot or two in the long (top to bottom) dimension, that would help too.

Second, everything on our layout is in view all the time (except during short trips through tunnels). This restricts your operations to industry pairs on your layout, as there is no where that represents the "rest of the world" (aka staging). Does this matter to you? It allows greater variety in car traffic if all industries don't need to be represented on the layout.

Some food for thought -- other than the turnouts on module joints I don't see any show stoppers. It's all a matter of what you want to do with your layout.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> My only other concern is that you can't turn trains. Once clockwise, always clockwise (or vice versa). Are you sure you're ok with that? Otherwise, if not, you need to put a crossover or a reversing loop in there somewhere. A reversing loop could be created out of the industrial spur in the middle of the right hand balloon -- bend the siding to the right to follow the rightmost track, and re-connect it with a curved turnout on the bottom of the loop, although this might violate your minimum curve radius. Another option would be to remove the tunnel at the top and install two pairs of turnouts to make crossovers, one at either end of the top straight section.


Nice catch! If it were my layout, personally I would eliminate the mountain / tunnel on the straight track at the top and do a crossover there.

But that's just me...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I do agree that a reverse loop adds to the operational
possibilities of the layout.

The most simple 'reverse loop' would be using the left
lower loop with a turnout creating a straight track past
the yard ladder and connecting to the main which is just
a foot or so away. 

Any time you use a crossover, for example in the straight
below the two bridges on the right, special wiring creates 2 reverse loops requiring 2 controllers.

When a reverse loop comes in the picture, it's best to draw the
trackplan using red for right (outside) rail and black for left
(inside) rail. Anytime you see red touching black somewhere
you have created a reverse loop that must be isolated.

Don

Don


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

DonR said:


> Might be a good change if you don't have a climate
> controlled layout room.
> 
> Climate can have a lot to do with other aspects of
> ...



couldn't agree more with you don if he were building a one unit layout but he is looking at three smaller units bolted or clamped to gather, we tried all the painting tips you say on the modules and unless your room stays the same temp year round (had about a 15 degree temp change winter to summer) each will tend move some the best we did before switching to plywood was to build a jig to put snug fitting 3/4 pvc pipe in that helped but still had minor problems , once we went to ply they remained stable till we would tear down to put it up at show ,


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## Eaglepilot6 (Oct 26, 2015)

gator do 65 said:


> Looks great, my only concern would be the two un-supported outside corners.


Are you talking about the corners near the center walkway? I was thinking of leaving legs off so that I could stack the modules under the main one (left) like shelves to get them out of the way when not in use. My worry about that is the layout flexing too much at the corners/diagonals closest to the center opening. Do you think the 1 or 3/4 x 4 frame would sag without extra support or legs there? I saw a neat trick of making legs attach without using bolts/screws at the train show a few weeks ago, and could try that. 



CTValleyRR said:


> My only other concern is that you can't turn trains. Once clockwise, always clockwise (or vice versa). Another option would be to remove the tunnel at the top and install two pairs of turnouts to make crossovers, one at either end of the top straight section.


I didn't consider it being a one way track without having a crossover or reverse loop. The long straight tunnel was a last minute idea just to vary the scenery some. That could easily be the crossover location, but I'm still weighing all the different options. The yard/staging will be a different scene separated by a scenery divider, but that still leaves all industries on the same stage. I was considering sawmill & lumberyard, but undecided on what other industries. 

The room I'm building in is a spare bedroom, climate controlled, and I will be assembling there. The long straight will be against a window, so maybe a few degrees of temp difference along that side, but it shouldn't be too drastic. Unfortunately, it's only 10'x10' and with doors open into the 2 loops, so I can't expand much further.


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## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

Yes, those are the two i was talking about. The frame work of 1x4 should be strong enough by its self but if it was leaned on, the results could be bad!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

2x2 legs with braces in both directions are plenty strong. So is extruded foam supported on 18" centers. Make a frame of 1x3 lumber, and run T- or L- girder joists across it (made of 1x3 glued and screwed to 1x2). Support the legs, and it will be bomb proof.

A scenery divider is an excellent option to help make your staging / yard into the "rest of the world ". That's what i'm doing (my plan is in the "Here Are the Layouts of Forum Members", one of the sticky threads at the top of this section). You just need enough track there to hold all the trains that are "elsewhere". This allows you to have, for instance, a sawmill on your layout with the logs coming in from staging and the lumber and pulpwood shipping to staging, rather than needing to also have a paper mill and a lumber yard on the layout.


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## Eaglepilot6 (Oct 26, 2015)

That was my thoughts as well. I originally wanted to have the whole shebang on my layout, but in HO scale and with wanting to focus more on natural scenery, I figure it just isn't possible...yet. Thanks for all the advice and helpful comments.


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## Eaglepilot6 (Oct 26, 2015)

Just about to start building my layout, and wanted opinions on whether my yard design is practical.

Colors are red=main, purple=arrival/departure track, light green=sorting yard, light blue=repair & service area, maroon=caboose storage.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Eagle

What is your thinking as to the crossover between
the top and middle green tracks? I don't see a
reason for it.

Don


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## Eaglepilot6 (Oct 26, 2015)

That small, maroon section to the left of the crossover is for a caboose track. It was an afterthought, so maybe there's a better spot for it somewhere I'm not seeing.

Scott


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