# Peco "Elecro Frog" N Scale Turnouts; points contact issues



## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm having problems with the points of these Peco turnouts (N Scale) failing as far as electrical contacts. I have used 99% Isopropyl Alcohol and Deoxit D5 (not together) on the contact portions of the points to a limited success, but the problem returns after a week or two (I don't keep track of the date I clean specific points). I use a miniature foam applicator I got from MicroMark which works ideally to apply the liquid.

I have read about at least one other modeler that had the same issue and he scraped (so to speak) those turnouts for something else.

Anyone else have this problem and/or offer another solution?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

videobruce said:


> I'm having problems with the points of these Peco turnouts (N Scale) failing as far as electrical contacts. I have used 99% Isopropyl Alcohol and Deoxit D5 (not together) on the contact portions of the points to a limited success, but the problem returns after a week or two (I don't keep track of the date I clean specific points). I use a miniature foam applicator I got from MicroMark which works ideally to apply the liquid.
> 
> I have read about at least one other modeler that had the same issue and he scraped (so to speak) those turnouts for something else.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem and/or offer another solution?



videobruce;

I learned long ago not to rely on turnout points as electrical contacts. Those with internal springs (Peco & Micro Engineering) are a bit better than those without, but none stay reliable, as dirt & corrosion will put them out of action. Also, the point, & stock, rails of a turnout are not especially well shaped to act as electrical contacts. In most cases, only a small amount of the surface area of the two rails, actually makes metal-to-metal contact.

Far better electrical switches exist, and, unlike turnout rails, they are specifically designed for the job of making & breaking electrical contact.

If you are using Peco's own PL-10 twin-coil switch machine to throw the points, then you might add Peco's set of electrical contacts. These are super-simple to install. They drop over the vertical pin that goes straight up from the PL-10, to the throwbar.

If you are using Tortoise stall motors, they come with internal micro-switches that will change frog polarity reliably.

Caboose Industries ground throws also sell a version with built-in electrical contacts. 

If you are using some other means of moving the points, you may need to come up with your own method of mounting a micro-switch so that it is triggered when the points are thrown.

Several other schemes have been written up in Model Railroader magazine.

Electrical slide switches with a tiny hole drilled through the sliding plastic handle, have been mounted near, and directly in line with, the throwbar. A bit of small diameter steel music wire is used as a linkage between the drilled hole, and the throwbar. Sliding the switch moves the throwbar and the switches' internal contacts change the frog polarity.

Another modeler used household light switches, mounted in their normal electrical boxes, which were set into the fascia board and connected to the turnout throw bars with longer linkages. 

On my own layout, I use linkages consisting of a steel wire inside a piece of brass tubing. This connects the throw bar to a gear motor, and operates micro switches at the ends of its travel. One of those switches controls frog polarity, the other runs panel indicator lights. 

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm using servos.
Then I guess I'm stuck with the problem. I thought the spring would do the trick for contact which looks like there is enough surface area to work.
I choose their electro frogs since I had trouble previously with Atlas turnouts and their insulated frogs that would short out with many locos due to narrow wheel gauges.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

videobruce said:


> I'm using servos.
> Then I guess I'm stuck with the problem. I thought the spring would do the trick for contact which looks like there is enough surface area to work.
> I choose their electro frogs since I had trouble previously with Atlas turnouts and their insulated frogs that would short out with many locos due to narrow wheel gauges.


videobruce;

You might try putting a little WD-40 contact cleaner (not regular WD-40) on the point & stock rails. It might help electrical conduction. Unfortunately, Electrofrogs are the only Peco turnout I have no experience with. I have some Insulfrogs, and Unifrogs, on my layout, but no Electrofrogs. Are you using DC or DCC? Depending on the control system, there are some modifications you can do on Electrofrogs. One, that's online, is converting the Peco Electrofrog to be DCC friendly. If you do that, the two point rails will need to be insulated from each other. The plastic throwbar is obviously an insulator, but I'm not sure about the frog end. 
Then the point & stock rails can be permanently jumpered to each other, one jumper on each side of the turnout. The frog itself would need to be insulated from all the other rails of the turnout. The plastic rail joiners you should be using on both the short rails coming out of the frog, take care of that end. If Peco didn't insulate the other end of the frog from the point rails, you may need to do some delicate Dremel cutting of the other end of the frog. Superglue a bit of clear plastic into the cut, to keep the rail ends from shorting the gap.
Once the frog is insulated or "isolated" from the rest of the turnout, then you can connect a small wire from the frog, to a "frog Juicer" commercial circuit board. That circuit will automatically change the frog polarity for you. No micro switches required.
Or, you should be able to trip a micro switch with the linkage of your servos? They have a moving piece, don't they? 

Traction Fan


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

If you’re using servos then only way to solve the problems with point blades is to use a frog juicer. Tam Valley do one, I use one from Gaugemaster which is about half the price but unsure of availability in the States. You need to isolate the frog. I’ve done this in HO but not sure how to in N.
Unfortunately may not be viable for you as you need to remove the turnout to modify it.


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

Too many turnouts to remove them. The layout is mostly 'done'. I may add some more scenery, but I'm fairly happy with the way it looks now. It would never make the cover of Model Railroader thou. 

I do have WD40 Contact Cleaner, but I haven't used any yet. I also have No-Ox and wanted to try that also but haven't.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I've heard that No-Ox can leave a film on the metal that reduces conductivity. No clue if that's correct, but it's what I have heard.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

videobruce said:


> I'm using servos.
> Then I guess I'm stuck with the problem. I thought the spring would do the trick for contact which looks like there is enough surface area to work.
> I choose their electro frogs since I had trouble previously with Atlas turnouts and their insulated frogs that would short out with many locos due to narrow wheel gauges.


I would think (but who cares what I think ) that you could rig up a micro switch pair such that when servo arm is in one position it sends juice down one set of rails and when microswitch is released normal, sends juice down the other rails.


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

JeffHurl said:


> I've heard that No-Ox can leave a film on the metal that reduces conductivity. No clue if that's correct, but it's what I have heard.


IIRC, you apply NO-Ox, wait, then wipe it off.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

rrman987 said:


> I would think (but who cares what I think ) that you could rig up a micro switch pair such that when servo arm is in one position it sends juice down one set of rails and when microswitch is released normal, sends juice down the other rails.


mman987;

You are correct.  The "common" (Com) terminal of the micro switch should be wired to the frog. The " "normally open" (NO) and "Normally closed, (NC) terminals go to the two stock rails. Works fine, I've used this system for years.

Traction Fan


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## REdington (Aug 20, 2018)

A little late to the party, but this is what I use on my servos for frog power. I've installed over close to 70 on my layout this way.





Linkage view of top side 







Bottom side


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