# 1st ever Model Train Layout



## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Hello everyone! I am new to the forum, and model trains as well. I recently signed up so that I could learn all the basics on a model train setup. I used to work at HobbyTownUSA so I think that's where I started getting into them. I used to be really into scale model auto's so I enjoyed all the detail on trains we sold in our store. I never got into them though, probably due to the cost an the space required. Now that I am older, have more space and $$, not to mention a 5 year old who LOVES trains I think its time to finally build something.

Sorry if you are expecting a already built layout, I have not even started. This thread will truly be the entire process of building a layout with absolutely zero experience. The only thing I bring to the table (pun intended) is I am a hobbyist woodworker so I can at least build the table haha! Anyways, on to the layout..

The plan so far: (Subject to change)

The wife has nixed the plan to build a large table in our guest room, and at 5 years old my boy can not yet be trusted to have it in his playroom. So, the only space left is of course my personal space. The garage. 

*Problem #1*
Im currently restoring a 1997 Nissan Hardbody on one half of the garage.
*Problem #2*
The other half of the garage is my woodworking/repair/work space

So here is what I think are my only two options. Well one option really.. with 2 spaces to put said option.

My first choice is right above my outfeed/assembly table. Ignore the mess. I have not been doing any woodworking the last few weeks while I put this old sohc KA back together. There are old car parts and crap everywhere. The issues I see here are not huge, but could make a big impact. Technically, I could fit a 4x8 table up there. The original plan was for an N scale setup that would lower right down onto my assembly table. I could work on it in the evening after the kid is asleep, and raise it up when I was away. However, as you can see by the measuring tape on the bench if the work area is clean a 4x8 space is possible so that had me thinking about HO. I can easily move the lights, they were put up without any real thought as I jut needed more light right away and are not in any kind of permanent position. Same with the air filter. So here I could have a really spacious N scale setup. Or the minimum required space (from what I have read on here so far) for a HO setup. One issue is that I would need to install self leveling feet on my outfeed/assembly table. I have it designed so that it is slightly lower than my table saw, for breaking down larger pieces of plywood and stuff. This way I can lower the train table on to a level workspace and disconnect it from rope.










The other option is above the truck. The issue here is really only that I would have to finish the truck first. Well the engine work really. Which is almost done. And also, when I want to work on the table, the truck would have to be moved out of the garage.










So option 1 is more convenient, but a tighter fit and possibly annoying to go HO. Option 2 has all the space but is really inconvenient due to having to move the truck. Oh and I would also have to install some kind of folding legs on the table or leave it attached to the hoist while working which seems like it would be a issue. The foldable legs would not be an issue, just another step when lowering it down.

I plan on using a pulley and mechanical winch to raise and lower the table for either option. I already started purchasing those parts since no matter what side we go, the build will be the same.










So there we are. I have not even built anything yet, and Im already at a dilemma haha. I like the space advantage of N scale. so would be happy with it. However, my son is the train lover, I am in this more for the building aspect. I want to build buildings, the terrain, roads and all that. I think HO would be more enjoyable, maybe easier since its a bit larger.
Would love everyone's opinion, advise etc. In the meantime, ill be acquiring the remaining pieces of this lift, and getting this truck driving again so I can start building a table.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Just a few thoughts:

N might be a bit small for a 5 year old. I would go with HO.

If the platform is to be raised and lowered, I would (to quote Colin Chapman) add lightness. Consider using L girder construction for the frame and rigid foam for the platform.


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Lehigh74 said:


> Just a few thoughts:
> 
> N might be a bit small for a 5 year old. I would go with HO.
> 
> If the platform is to be raised and lowered, I would (to quote Colin Chapman) add lightness. Consider using L girder construction for the frame and rigid foam for the platform.


I agree, N scale would be small. If we do go N scale the plan for now would be to only allow him to operate it. Probably have a plexiglass box made to cover the track so he would just look. Hes well behaved enough that with the controller in hand he would still love it.

I have been doing research on build plans on Youtube and here as well. Will definitely be using the rigid foam. Also, everything I have ordered is designed to have a working load of over 400 lbs, except for the above pictured screw eyes. Those are being returned today for a stronger option! Thanks for the input Bob!


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Go with N. It's small, but kids will surprise you. And with only a 4x8 space HO will leave you disappointed. You will have a lot more options for a layout in N scale. My son is just a little older, he's 8 now. Started playing with N scale not to long ago and he loves it. N or HO he is a bit young to be handling them much anyway, why not go with the one that gives more options?

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Project510 said:


> Hello everyone! I am new to the forum, and model trains as well. I recently signed up so that I could learn all the basics on a model train setup. I used to work at HobbyTownUSA so I think that's where I started getting into them. I used to be really into scale model auto's so I enjoyed all the detail on trains we sold in our store. I never got into them though, probably due to the cost an the space required. Now that I am older, have more space and $$, not to mention a 5 year old who LOVES trains I think its time to finally build something.
> 
> Sorry if you are expecting a already built layout, I have not even started. This thread will truly be the entire process of building a layout with absolutely zero experience. The only thing I bring to the table (pun intended) is I am a hobbyist woodworker so I can at least build the table haha! Anyways, on to the layout..
> 
> ...


Project 510;

Welcome to the forum!

I have a (recently) six-year-old grandson with his own N-scale layout that he started using when he was five. He handles the N-scale cars and locomotives just fine, including putting them on the track by himself. There is a ramp that makes that task easier, (see photo) but he can do it by eyeball and fingers only too. Don't sell young kids short. Their eyesight & manual dexterity are phenomenal ! Usually far better than their elders. My point is that you don't have to avoid N-scale because of notions that "its too small to handle." That may well be slightly closer to the truth for you than for your grandson, but its actually not true for either of you, unless you have serious disabilities. I'm 73, and partially disabled I've been working with N-scale for over 45 years, without problems.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with HO-scale either, or any scale for that matter. The one limiting factor in scale choice is space. Specifically the amount of space needed for the various scales to make a 180 degree turn with their track. HO-scale can make it, using pretty tight 18" radius curves, and restricted choices of equipment, in four feet. It can also, just barely and crowding the table edges, fit a slightly larger 22" radius curve into four feet of table width. Using this slightly larger curve, most HO-scale equipment can make it around without problems.

N-scale can turn around in half the space (2' ) by using equally tight (for that scale) curves. However, in 3 x 8 feet N-scale can turn around using more generous curves that can handle even some larger locomotives, and longer cars. If you use four feet of width, N-scale can have truly broad curves that look more like the curves on real railroads, and will handle anything made in N-scale.

I suggest framing your "hoist-up" layout with aluminum angle, instead of wood, and using 1-1/2" - 2" thick extruded foam insulation board, instead of a sheet of plywood, for the "main slab."
None of us get younger and stronger as we age. The lighter and easier you can make the lift, the better. Aluminum angle could also be used for the legs, or you can buy pre-made tubular-steel foldable table legs. That's what I used on my grandson's layout. I also used wood L-girders, and 1/4" Luan plywood. That works, but made the layout just heavy enough that I find it a little difficult to handle. If I were doing it over, I would make it lighter, using foam, and possibly the Luan, but only if it was needed to anchor the folding legs, which I screwed to 1 x 3 planks that I attached to the Luan with glue and hollow wall anchors, through the thin Luan and into the foam. 

Using hardware that can handle 400 Lbs. is fine, but anything made by man can fail, and and a 400 Lb. object falling could wipe out your car, tools, or worse, people! Even 100, or even 50 Lbs. is potentially dangerous. I would use counter weights or counter springs to keep the layout up, rather than depending on only the ropes, however strong, to hold it, and they will make lifting it easier too.

The 4 x 8 foot shape is limiting in some other ways too, but it looks like you don't have a lot of choices. You could go smaller, with an N-scale layout on a 3' x 7' hollow-core door, for example, but 4 x 8 will work fine too.
The files below are some I wrote for new model railroaders, look them over if you wish.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> Go with N. It's small, but kids will surprise you. And with only a 4x8 space HO will leave you disappointed. You will have a lot more options for a layout in N scale. My son is just a little older, he's 8 now. Started playing with N scale not to long ago and he loves it. N or HO he is a bit young to be handling them much anyway, why not go with the one that gives more options?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Great points, more space for more buildings and scenery and besides trains, I think he likes bridges even more so we will be adding 1 or two of those. I do think N scale is a good choice.



traction fan said:


> Project 510;
> 
> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> ...


Several great points, thank you. I totally agree, kids are more adaptable then we think sometimes. I only mention keeping it covered because he is currently in his smash any thing that roles phase. He loves crashing his Lego cars, and his wooden toy truck get "rolled" across the kitchen and smash into cabinets and walls haha. Once grasps the idea of a bit of softer play, he will absolutely be given the opportunity to pick them up. Also, that ramp loader is slick!

The material is rated for 400 lbs, but the load should be less than 100 when complete. Ill also be adding a safety feature in the event the hoist were to break, but you are right. Murphy's law right? I will definitely look at the aluminum options. Maybe because of the current lumber prices, it may save a few dollars as well! 

Also, thank you for including the pdf's I probably should have mentioned in my original post I have seen them posted in several different threads and have already printed A LOT of them out for future reading! I'm not a huge fan of reading on the computer or tablet and I print them out at work (ssshhh) anyways. Thanks in advance for all the help those will provide! I actually started a word file to make my own table of contents because you have so much. It'll be easier to reference later lol.

- James


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Project510 said:


> Great points, more space for more buildings and scenery and besides trains, I think he likes bridges even more so we will be adding 1 or two of those. I do think N scale is a good choice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


James;

You can buy aluminum angle at Home Depot or Lowes in various sizes. I've used the 3/4" angle for some bracing on my layout, and its very strong.
If its basically only supporting a piece of foam, and maybe a sheet of 1/4" Luan, that probably won't even come close to 100 lbs. Another (free) source for aluminum channels is trashed shower door frames. I've picked up several of those just riding my geezer tricycle around my neighborhood on trash day.

N-scale really looks best when It can expand out into a space that could hold an HO-scale layout. If you resist the tendency to fill that 4 x 8 up with track, you will be able to fit plenty of scenery, buildings, and those bridges your grandson likes. You will find that there is a good variety of products available in N-scale. However, since HO-scale is more popular, there is even more available in that size. Regardless of scale, you will also soon find that model railroading is an expensive hobby. Not more expensive than a lot of others, and a good deal cheaper than some, but still, there is certainly cost involved. Scratchbuilding structures, rather than using all commercial kits, will save a lot of money, and also take care of the "What's available in my chosen scale" issue altogether. You can scratchbuild anything your heart, or your grandson's imagination, desires. As an example, my own layout is based loosely on the Milwaukee Road's passenger operations near Seattle, in the 1920s. Well, I'm here to tell you there ain't a whole lot of commercial models of Seattle's two large railroad stations, or other major structures, available. In fact, there are precisely none, in any scale. So I had to scratchbuild most of my 3' x 4' representation of "downtown Seattle." The photos show some of the structures I scratchbuilt, and some commercial kits too.

Major scenic features, like hills, tunnels, rivers, etc. can be made of extruded foam. That makes them very lightweight, but strong enough to take an occasional bump. Its also an easy way to make scenery. Below track features like rivers and road underpasses, can simply be carved out of the foam sheet. Above track features, like hills, can be formed with foam glued in layers, like a cake, and then cut , rasped, and sanded to shape, The surefoam rasps in the first photo are good for this job. Foam does produce clouds of dust, so have your trusty shop vac handy. I tape the hose to the bottom of the handle on the yellow rasp. This catches most of the dust.

I think you will find some useful info in the files you have copied. A lot may not apply directly to what you're doing now, as the files are intended as general info to help many "newbies", each of whom may have different ideas & needs. Things will come up as you get into model railroading. Feel free to ask questions here on the forum. You might also check our "Beginner's Q&A" section. There is lots of good info there.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan. 🙂


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

My two cents worth.

I'd go with N scale for the all the reasons mentioned above. I'll also add, your son is not going to stay 5 forever. As he grows both physically and mentally he's going to want more, more train, more scenery, more action, more involvement in building, so on and so forth.

I'd go with over the pickup. You are going to get real tired of completely clearing your work table every time you wanted to work on the train, unless of course you currently completely clear your table every time you get done anyway. You'll find most days it'll be way easier to move the truck out and pull it back in. You said you have to have it running anyway before you can even build the benchwork. Or maybe even use your other car to pull it out and push it back in, depending on how your garage and driveway is set up.

If you do decide to go over your work table you can always attached little blocks to the bottom of the layout instead of raising and lowering the work table.

As for the construction of the benchwork, I believe others have already given you great advice.

Chaos


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Good for you...children should always have a place at the layout, with no bitter memories associated with it. N scale is no exception, there are plenty of close enough items to play with. Keep the delicate stuff out of reach, my daughter never bought into my cheap toy substitutes for a second, she wanted to play with real trains.🤓🤬


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

traction fan said:


> James;
> 
> You can buy aluminum angle at Home Depot or Lowes in various sizes. I've used the 3/4" angle for some bracing on my layout, and its very strong.
> If its basically only supporting a piece of foam, and maybe a sheet of 1/4" Luan, that probably won't even come close to 100 lbs. Another (free) source for aluminum channels is trashed shower door frames. I've picked up several of those just riding my geezer tricycle around my neighborhood on trash day.
> ...


All great info thank you! 



Chaostrain said:


> My two cents worth.
> 
> I'd go with N scale for the all the reasons mentioned above. I'll also add, your son is not going to stay 5 forever. As he grows both physically and mentally he's going to want more, more train, more scenery, more action, more involvement in building, so on and so forth.
> 
> ...


Im warming up to the idea of over the truck also, since its more open. I also think the 2 way winch will be an easier install here as well because the spot for it with the over the workbench idea means I need to remove a lumber rack (or at least shorten the material stored on it) and move my security cameras video monitor.

But you are correct in assuming I keep the table clear. The photos I posted don't depict the typical daily situation there. While fixing the truck, my portable fridge/freezer broke, our garbage disposal died, a friend asked for a cutting board to be repaired, and as if I didn't already have enough going on, had to replace th shocks and springs on our family car.. So, its usually empty when not in use. Also, lowering it on the work table means all my most common used tools are right behind me. Well, part of the fun is the planning stage so well see how it goes!



shaygetz said:


> Good for you...children should always have a place at the layout, with no bitter memories associated with it. N scale is no exception, there are plenty of close enough items to play with. Keep the delicate stuff out of reach, my daughter never bought into my cheap toy substitutes for a second, she wanted to play with real trains.🤓🤬
> View attachment 565325


One thing I learned from my dad, was we always did what he wanted. His hobbies were ours until we were old enough to choose otherwise. I want to expose the boy to as much as possible and hell choose his own passions and we can go from there. If that is an N scale lightning Mcqueen and Mator, Im gonna have to find a set of those. My son will loose his mind. Great photos!

Really, thank you everyone. Im super excited about this build. It may be a slow process, with work, and the regular family day to day stuff my free time in the garage ends up being about 45 minutes a night, maybe 2-3 nights a week. So once the build begins, it will be slow. Regardless, I cant wait!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Project510 said:


> If that is an N scale lightning Mcqueen and Mator, Im gonna have to find a set of those. My son will loose his mind. Great photos!


They were pen toppers Walmart sold back when the movie came out. While not N Scale (more like 1:144 scale) they were close enough to thrill my kids and many others over the years. Since my kids are grown, and you're not likely to find any yourself, I'm willing to pass them on to you. Just pm me an address and I'll send them off to you.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Dupe


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

shaygetz said:


> They were pen toppers Walmart sold back when the movie came out. While not N Scale (more like 1:144 scale) they were close enough to thrill my kids and many others over the years. Since my kids are grown, and you're not likely to find any yourself, I'm willing to pass them on to you. Just pm me an address and I'll send them off to you.
> View attachment 565361


 Wow that is incredibly nice of you to do that! I send you a PM shortly. If I weren't new to the hobby I would offer up something to trade. Hopefully in the future I can repay the favor!


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

I hate to be the wet noodle, but...

Being a woodworker you know that, no matter what you do for dust abatement, it gets everywhere anyway. If your layout is nothing more than track on baseboard I guess you could hose it off with compressed air, but with structures, trees, ground cover, etc. that's not really an option. And all of your locos and rolling stock will need to be removed from the dust zone when you are making dust.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Stumpy said:


> I hate to be the wet noodle, but...
> 
> Being a woodworker you know that, no matter what you do for dust abatement, it gets everywhere anyway. If your layout is nothing more than track on baseboard I guess you could hose it off with compressed air, but with structures, trees, ground cover, etc. that's not really an option. And all of your locos and rolling stock will need to be removed from the dust zone when you are making dust.


Pretty much this...I still am absolutely amazed at how much dust a couple of simple cuts can make, and where it gets....

*I *would strongly advise against it myself. Simple household dust drove me to building a cabinet for my N scale, my HO track is a simple design and easy to clean.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Welcome P510.
Some like the dust on their stuff. 
We have at least one old thread on what someone did to hoist his layout in the garage, I will see if I can find it.
I think his was a 4x8, not sure. He made a nice hoist setup then stopped posting here, it was years ago, maybe 10 or more.
In our old forum platform I might be able to find it easily, with the new site format not so easy.
When you raise it up just make some kind of cover for it, a sheet with a few custom made hold up brackets to keep it off of things might work.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I lucked it out found it fairly quick.
His was 12x5, maybe it will give you some ideals on hanging it.









Retractable Layout in Garage...IT WORKS!


Hello everyone! So i have been wanting one of these layouts for quite some time but didn't want to relinquish the space of a room and i do not have a basement so i needed something i could put away but was big enough for me to really do something with. Here is what i did and pics are attached...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Another, some of the posts in this one has links to click to view what some others did.
Read thru if you want.









Suspended layout


Hi there, I used to have a layout in our old house - which we left 8 years ago. It was in a shed off the garage. Unfortunately it did succumb to the weather conditions and I had trouble running it as the track kept getting dirty. I managed to save the rolling stock, but not the track and...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

One more for you,








suspended layout


well due to space restrictions i cant have a table layout either perminent or one that can be set up when i want it. so im going to do the next best thing i can think of, suspend it from the ceiling using a winch, rope, and some pulley's. im going to try and accomplish this in the basement since...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Stumpy said:


> I hate to be the wet noodle, but...
> 
> Being a woodworker you know that, no matter what you do for dust abatement, it gets everywhere anyway. If your layout is nothing more than track on baseboard I guess you could hose it off with compressed air, but with structures, trees, ground cover, etc. that's not really an option. And all of your locos and rolling stock will need to be removed from the dust zone when you are making dust.


Yes, you both are correct. The dust is a huge problem. Initially I was just going to cover the table somehow, but when I was in there today moving the lights around I saw just how quickly the dust piles up. Its definitely going to require a solution. I cant quit the woodworking, its my favorite hobby. Im thinking I will have to convince the wife to let me store it in the guest room, under the queen bed maybe? But getting it up stairs would be tricky. 



shaygetz said:


> Pretty much this...I still am absolutely amazed at how much dust a couple of simple cuts can make, and where it gets....
> 
> *I *would strongly advise against it myself. Simple household dust drove me to building a cabinet for my N scale, my HO track is a simple design and easy to clean.
> View attachment 565514





Big Ed said:


> Welcome P510.
> Some like the dust on their stuff.
> We have at least one old thread on what someone did to hoist his layout in the garage, I will see if I can find it.
> I think his was a 4x8, not sure. He made a nice hoist setup then stopped posting here, it was years ago, maybe 10 or more.
> ...


I really dont want the dust everywhere haha. It will have to be worked out somehow. This is exactly why I posted here. So much expertise and advice. Thank you for the links! I will check them out!


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

So I headed in the garage this weekend to work on both the truck and cleanup. I was able to clean up a good amount of my mess to get a good look at what size table I can get up in the air.










As mentioned above, while I was up in the ceiling area moving the lights around I got a good look at all the dust that had collected up there. Its going to be a huge issue. So now I am stuck. First option will be to convince the wife to let me build it inside the guest room but that will definitely reduce the size for sure. 2nd would be to go get a quote for a Plexiglas cover but that means to save cost id have to reduce the amount of stuff to include in the build like landscape and stuff. 










Before I got up there with all my dust I drew a little mock up of the space I would have when it was lowered.










I also mounted these blue containers my wife brought home for me when her office closed down at the beginning of the pandemic. I thought they would be perfect for materials during the build. Although now this idea might have to change as well haha.










Well, back to the drawing board I guess would be an appropriate way to end tonight.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Maybe a cheaper, but less fancy option would be to just use sheet plastic to drape over it when not in use? Not elegant, but should be effective. You could build some standoffs into the layout so the plastic doesn't touch trees etc and cause damage. Leave a few inches at the edge of the board and clamp the plastic down when it's in storage mode. 


Just an idea. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Is your garage climate controlled?


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## cfurnari (Aug 2, 2020)

So, the 68 inches, from the garage door, allows for where the door is going to be, when it is up? or are we not using the garage door any longer?


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> Maybe a cheaper, but less fancy option would be to just use sheet plastic to drape over it when not in use? Not elegant, but should be effective. You could build some standoffs into the layout so the plastic doesn't touch trees etc and cause damage. Leave a few inches at the edge of the board and clamp the plastic down when it's in storage mode.
> 
> 
> Just an idea.
> ...


A good affordable option. Im not worried about looks. Just function!



MichaelE said:


> Is your garage climate controlled?


No it is not, but the only non insulated wall is the door itself, so it stays a fairly regular temperature. I was actually thinking of adding insulating tiles to the garage door for hot summer days but never did it. I never even looked into the cost, since its not my house. We are renting from family so its not like we would have to leave anytime soon. Just never looked into it.



cfurnari said:


> So, the 68 inches, from the garage door, allows for where the door is going to be, when it is up? or are we not using the garage door any longer?


That measurement is from the end of my current work bench to the garage door when closed. That area is generally where my son has his little crafts table for painting and making things. Its currently occupied by new wheels for the truck, a pressure washer and some wood scraps haha. Point is, I will have 360 degree access to the table.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Stumpy said:


> I hate to be the wet noodle, but...
> 
> Being a woodworker you know that, no matter what you do for dust abatement, it gets everywhere anyway. If your layout is nothing more than track on baseboard I guess you could hose it off with compressed air, but with structures, trees, ground cover, etc. that's not really an option. And all of your locos and rolling stock will need to be removed from the dust zone when you are making dust.


Stumpy;

You're half right. My layout shares a garage with lots of power tools, including a table saw, and they do produce clouds of dust. Despite the presence of dust collecting shop-vacs connected to each power tool, yes the dust that escapes gets everywhere. However, I can hose the layout off with compressed air and not uproot trees or ground cover, let alone structures. The first two are glued in place, and the structures are screwed down with the screw heads covered with glued on ground cover. I take photos of the screws with them painted bright orange before the ground cover goes over them, so I can find the screw heads later. (see last two photos) 
The OP is making a layout that hoists up below the ceiling of his garage. He would have to be nuts to leave any rolling stock on the layout while hoisting, or perhaps even when woodworking, though covering his 4 x 8 layout with a tarp would keep the dust off it.

Traction Fan



James;

You might adapt the "Cassete" idea used by some British modelers. A model railroad Cassete is a small "railyard" consisting of parallel tracks on a piece of wood. It is butted up to a "feeder" track that goes off the end of the main layout. A locomotive backs a string of cars onto one track of the cassette and uncouples from them. The loco then goes in search of more cars, and the Cassete is shifted over one notch so that an empty track on the Cassete lines up with the feeder track. This operation is repeated until all cars and locomotives are off the layout. Some modelers have used a variation of this scheme, employing a metal shelf cart with a model of a car ferry on top. The ferry "comes into port" (with a manual push of the cart) docks at a loading ramp, and the cars are pushed onto the ferry. The cart can be wheeled outside, or covered when woodworking is in progress.

Traction Fan


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Stumpy;
> 
> You're half right. My layout shares a garage with lots of power tools, including a table saw, and they do produce clouds of dust. Despite the presence of dust collecting shop-vacs connected to each power tool, yes the dust that escapes gets everywhere. However, I can hose the layout off with compressed air and not uproot trees or ground cover, let alone structures. The first two are glued in place, and the structures are screwed down with the screw heads covered with glued on ground cover. I take photos of the screws with them painted bright orange before the ground cover goes over them. The OP is making a layout that hoists up below the ceiling of his garage. He would have to be nuts to leave any rolling stock on the layout while hoisting, or perhaps when woodworking, though covering his 4 x 8 layout with a tarp would keep the dust off it.
> 
> ...


interesting Idea.. Thank you!


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

traction fan said:


> Stumpy;
> 
> You're half right. My layout shares a garage with lots of power tools, including a table saw, and they do produce clouds of dust. Despite the presence of dust collecting shop-vacs connected to each power tool, yes the dust that escapes gets everywhere. However, I can hose the layout off with compressed air and not uproot trees or ground cover, let alone structures. The first two are glued in place, and the structures are screwed down with the screw heads covered with glued on ground cover. I take photos of the screws with them painted bright orange before the ground cover goes over them. The OP is making a layout that hoists up below the ceiling of his garage. He would have to be nuts to leave any rolling stock on the layout while hoisting, or perhaps when woodworking, though covering his 4 x 8 layout with a tarp would keep the dust off it.
> 
> ...


The rail yard is called a 'fiddle yard' in the local terminology. The cassette is the actual sliding part of the operation for the assembled trains.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

The thought crossed my mind to use PVC as a frame or frame sections to set over the layout to hold some kind of cover over the layout.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

A frame made from 1/2" or greater PVC pipe with 8-12" legs attached at the corners and a few in the middle with a cross member should do the trick with 6 mil plastic sheet over the top.


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Chaostrain said:


> The thought crossed my mind to use PVC as a frame or frame sections to set over the layout to hold some kind of cover over the layout.





MichaelE said:


> A frame made from 1/2" or greater PVC pipe with 8-12" legs attached at the corners and a few in the middle with a cross member should do the trick with 6 mil plastic sheet over the top.


This was actually an idea I thought of. Adding small posts to the corners of the actual table so it can just be dropped on and off easily. Cheap. Effective I think.

Also, while brainstorming in the garage last night I took some additional photos of this area that is right above the door. For whatever reason its separated by a beam of some sort. That could help block the dust. It would make the hand winch a bit more difficult but not impossible. Also would limit work space since its right up tot he garage door. The benefit would be a 4x8 or longer would easily fit here.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Project510 said:


> This was actually an idea I thought of. Adding small posts to the corners of the actual table so it can just be dropped on and off easily. Cheap. Effective I think.
> 
> Also, while brainstorming in the garage last night I took some additional photos of this area that is right above the door. For whatever reason its separated by a beam of some sort. That could help block the dust. It would make the hand winch a bit more difficult but not impossible. Also would limit work space since its right up tot he garage door. The benefit would be a 4x8 or longer would easily fit here.


That looks like a good spot to recess your layout completely.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Have not quite worked out a spot for this table yet. I really like this space at the end of the garage separated by the supporting beam. I went to measure out a 4x8 foot space and realized I had forgotten about a critical issue. The garage door mechanism is in the way. So the space that is actually available is 42x72 inches. 










I could drop the table lower to get the full 96 inches but then it would be below the the beam which would provide a lot of protection from dust.
We have an absolute perfect space inside the house for an L shaped table but it is currently occupied by a couch. The space is in the boys playroom so the count isn't really used unless we were to have multiple guests sleep over as it turns into a full size bed. Im gonna bring it up to the wife but that has about a 10% chance of success convincing her. 

In the meantime, Ive been looking at really simple layouts that will fit our 42x72 space. What I think might happen is when she sees how much the kid loves it, shell let us expand and then we can move into the house. Or, I just build as lightweight a cover as possible and we do it in my original position over the work bench/table.

I also still have not read all of Traction Fans PDf's. unfortunately I've been bringing too much work home with me from the office. I plan to get started on those tonight so I can learn how these things operate, what i will need etc.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Project510 said:


> Have not quite worked out a spot for this table yet. I really like this space at the end of the garage separated by the supporting beam. I went to measure out a 4x8 foot space and realized I had forgotten about a critical issue. The garage door mechanism is in the way. So the space that is actually available is 42x72 inches.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


project510;

You're not alone in overlooking something that looks obvious after the fact. I've done things like that many times!  Since you're using N-scale, six feet of layout length will be adequate, at least for now. The 42" width is actually generous by N-scale standards. Many N-scale layout have been built on hollow-core doors that are 32"-36" wide and 68" long.
It might be physically possible to have a layout that rolls under the couch, or one that is built over it, with the option of pulling the couch out from the wall a bit. In this case, the narrow shelf concept that I recommend in my PDF files would be a good choice. It might be possible for both the couch, an a shelf layout, to both be in the boy's room simultaneously. All this is physically possible.
Politically possible is a whole other can of worms, (all of them female and menopausal!) **** she who must be obeyed.

Good Luck. I suspect you'll need it. 

Traction Fan


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Thanks for the laugh, haha. Good to know the size is ok for now. Once I read all the beginner stuff we can move to layouts!


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

An update but not really an update. I am still trying to convince the wife to let us put this thing inside. Its most likely going in the garage in the space mentioned jsut above ^^ but well try again for inside.

In other news, we have acquired our very first piece or accessory for the track thanks to Shaygetz!

If I can find the other characters in something close to this scale I think recreating "Radiator Springs" the cutest little town in carburetor county would make my son loose his mind haha.
Ill just have to add a bridge because he is obsessed with suspension bridges. Specifically the Golden Gate lol.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Project510 said:


> An update but not really an update. I am still trying to convince the wife to let us put this thing inside. Its most likely going in the garage in the space mentioned jsut above ^^ but well try again for inside.
> 
> In other news, we have acquired our very first piece or accessory for the track thanks to Shaygetz!
> 
> ...


Not that realism would matter in "Radiator Springs", but suspension bridges very rarely carry railroads. Sometimes a subway, or rapid transit system may share a bridge with a roadway, but 99% of all suspension bridges, (other than the Indiana Jones rope & plank pedestrian type) are for cars only. For that reason, a model of a suspension bridge may be hard to find in model railroad supply channels. Also, an N-scale model of the Golden Gate bridge would be over sixty real feet long, which might make it a tight fit in your garage!  It looks like you might get an early, and quite challenging, introduction to the fun of scratchbuilding!


None of that should mater a bit to your son, since "Cars" is his favorite movie! (BTW, my 6-year-old grandson loves that movie too!) "Lightning McQueen" and "mayter" should be able to drive across any bridge you end up with.

Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Yea the bridge would be for cars only not the train. I spent all this weekend building a cardboard Golden Gate Bridge for his Hotwheels.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Check thingyverse and shapeways. I'm sure there are some 3d file out there you can have printed to your scale. If you find a file and need help scaling it I might be able to help you out there. Sounds like a cool project! My son is into jurassic park, so we are doing that for a theme and I have printed a good amount for it. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> Check thingyverse and shapeways. I'm sure there are some 3d file out there you can have printed to your scale. If you find a file and need help scaling it I might be able to help you out there. Sounds like a cool project! My son is into jurassic park, so we are doing that for a theme and I have printed a good amount for it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Cool, I will check that out thank you!


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

Have you thought about trying to get your wife involved? Even if she doesn't like trains she might like doing buildings and/or landscaping. I'm sure it would make it easier to convince her to bring it in the house, plus have the added bonus of more together time. Maybe you could talk to her about making it out of the way when not in use, fold up against a wall, slide under a bed, put a glass or wood table top on it, or any other thing your imagination can dream or discover. Anyway, just some thoughts.


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## 498cm3 (Jul 30, 2021)

Project510 said:


> Thanks for the laugh, haha. Good to know the size is ok for now. Once I read all the beginner stuff we can move to layouts!


Hello Project510, I built my first recently, in N Scale. I have a depth of 46", and as you probably know I can't reach all the way in. Six one with a positive ape index, so I have decent reach.
I just never planned for accessibility, other than hidden access to the tunnel/mountain.
It turned out nice, and the extra depth is visually stunning, but it's always going to be a stretch.
Food for thought.

Doc

Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Chaostrain said:


> Have you thought about trying to get your wife involved? Even if she doesn't like trains she might like doing buildings and/or landscaping. I'm sure it would make it easier to convince her to bring it in the house, plus have the added bonus of more together time. Maybe you could talk to her about making it out of the way when not in use, fold up against a wall, slide under a bed, put a glass or wood table top on it, or any other thing your imagination can dream or discover. Anyway, just some thoughts.


Great idea, I have hinted at this to see if she is interested. She is not. haha. I'm going to take a 2nd walk around the house this weekend. I'm going to try to convince her that because of the wood dust, I really need to do it inside. She just might come around
.


498cm3 said:


> Hello Project510, I built my first recently, in N Scale. I have a depth of 46", and as you probably know I can't reach all the way in. Six one with a positive ape index, so I have decent reach.
> I just never planned for accessibility, other than hidden access to the tunnel/mountain.
> It turned out nice, and the extra depth is visually stunning, but it's always going to be a stretch.
> Food for thought.
> ...


Thanks for the info!


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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

Oh the dreaded wife aspect of this hobby that I can very much relate to. Between trying to start my layout and my 20-25+ year saltwater reef tank hobby she hates my hobbies lol... As @Chaostrain mentioned getting them involved helps for a little... I can still rely on bringing her to a fish store and count on her always wanting to buy a coral or something for the tank... She used to spent more on corals than I did when she was really into the tank 

She mainly hates the train hobby as the basement is still a work in progress and I told her not to go down there until I was done so she wouldn't freak out but she went down there and freaked out!


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Ha, my wife hates hobbies!( needs one of her own!!) It drives her nuts that I'm into several. Love to get back into keeping fish, but that won't happen. Love to rebuild another corvette (maybe when I retire??) And I'd really love to go from little garden to hobby farm. I have to fight for train money!

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## Project510 (Aug 24, 2021)

Yea, this weekend I'm going to point out that to keep it in the garage means moving cars, moving tools, moving stuff to let him play. If we do it in the house its a more controlled safer environment. And I do plan to get her involved. She doesn't have hobbies, but is very big DIY crafts when we need them. So all three of us getting together to build this would be a fun family hobby. Work is just really stressful and busy for us. We are lucky to still have work, but Covid has made many changes in our work and school life so everyone is adapting! Hopefully I will have a set plan in place by this weekend so that when we return from our LA trip next week I can stat building and adding some cool photos to this thread!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Project510 said:


> An update but not really an update. I am still trying to convince the wife to let us put this thing inside. Its most likely going in the garage in the space mentioned jsut above ^^ but well try again for inside.
> 
> In other news, we have acquired our very first piece or accessory for the track thanks to Shaygetz!
> 
> ...


Glad they have a good home. BTW, Doc Hudson and Sally were also available at the time.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I feel sorry for you guys...my wife would divorce me if I left the hobby. My knowledge of it paid for our kids homeschooling, and she says I'm a different man when I got into the hobby after a five year hiatus. Apparently it helps my autism....


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I feel sorry for them too. My layout is in partnership with my wife.


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## Chops124 (Dec 23, 2015)

Well, you could sell the Nissan and use the money for trains. The wife also didn't like the trains taking over the garage, told me it was either her or the trains. Sure going to miss her. 

I suspect you are handy with a screw driver to make this elaborate pulley system work. For a guy like you, I suspect it will be fun. I tried to hoist a 2 x 6 foot trolley layout out of the way. It was a bit sloppy, but it generally worked, until one day the Siamese cat jumped up there, tipped it (he is a fatty) causing the whole skunk works to invert and come crashing down to the concrete. 

Over a period of months, I did rebuild it, though it resembled Hiroshima. Took a LOT of glue and a thousand curse words.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Chops124 said:


> Well, you could sell the Nissan and use the money for trains. The wife also didn't like the trains taking over the garage, told me it was either her or the trains. Sure going to miss her.
> 
> I suspect you are handy with a screw driver to make this elaborate pulley system work. For a guy like you, I suspect it will be fun. I tried to hoist a 2 x 6 foot trolley layout out of the way. It was a bit sloppy, but it generally worked, until one day the Siamese cat jumped up there, tipped it (he is a fatty) causing the whole skunk works to invert and come crashing down to the concrete.
> 
> Over a period of months, I did rebuild it, though it resembled Hiroshima. Took a LOT of glue and a thousand curse words.


Hopefully it fell on top of the cat. 😊 

Traction Fan


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## thysell (Jun 8, 2013)

That garage is going to be too cold and drafty for the kids during the winter 😉. I had a layout in the garage. Raising and lowering it got old pretty quick. But on the bright side, the grand kids and I had a great time with our trains. I would negotiate for in the house. Good luck.
Pete


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