# Xrunner's Anal Observation #278 - Crossing Gates



## xrunner

I have three groups of N scale crossing gates, one set from when I was a kid that I had kept, and several other sets I got recently. But I just realized today something is wrong. Here's a real crossing gate -










all the pictures I can find of real crossing gates have red stripes.

Here is the N scale crossing gate. Trouble is, the stripes aren't red, they are black and it's painted the exact same way as the 40 year old one I had as a kid. Now, is it any more trouble to paint them the right color in the first place at the factory? Apparently black stripes is the way it's been done for 40 years on the model. Is that weird or what? Why black stripes?


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## tjcruiser

I wonder if the red and white from a modern gate are actually reflective tape, rather than paint ???


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## Big Ed

Once again a copy and paste,

They used to be black and white, though not in the era your modeling,
They used to be Black and white up to the 1960's.

What era are you modeling again?
_





Gates were made so that people would be forced to stop behind the crossing signal to protect them from an oncoming train. Crossing gates have their weak points too..._​ _








_​_
A-Gates/Wishbone Gates.​ These were the earliest crossing gates to be invented. This particular gate as shown is white with red stripes. In the earlier days up to the 1960s, these gates used to be colored white with black stripes, as well as yellow with black stripes, which Argentina still uses Today!​  You can still find hobby shops that make black and white gates, but the real ones are long gone. These gates, weren't reflective, so that's probably why they were retired. Also, the earliest gates were not motorized, which meant that a railroad employee had to stay by the crossing signals.​  When the signals would begin to go off, the railroad employee would have to go out and manually crank the gates down, and then back up when the train finished. I don't know when manual gates were eliminated though. Gregg has told me that the A-gates have a different name called Wishbone gates. I don't know where to find out more information about Wishbone gates unfortunately. These types of gates are very rare to find.​ Also the earliest types of gates used to be wooden, but are now aluminum. Wooden crossing gates are rare to find Today.


​_


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## xrunner

big ed said:


> Once again a copy and paste,
> 
> They used to be black and white, though not in the era your modeling,
> They used to be Black and white up to the 1960's.
> 
> What era are you modeling again?


I'm modeling an era that the makers of n scale gates don't cater to evidently.

LOL - thanks Ed. It just seems odd that today they still sell the black and white gates as "standard issue". Seems to me they would have at least offered a red striped one. I can paint it but it will be some trouble.

Since you're doing so well at explaining these things, look at this -

Here's another weird thing. Notice the difference between the HO and N scale crossings? The crossing sign/flasher and the gate are part of the same "pole" on a real crossing signal. Now compare the HO scale and N scale models. Again the N scale model is not really correct. Why do you think they make the N scale model differently when it's obvious what the correct way is? This kind of thing drives me nuts. Is this another "era" thing goin on? 

Bachmann HO scale crossing gate -










Bachmann N scale crossing gate -


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## Big Ed

Probably it is easier to make them in HO then in n scale?

What era are you doing?
50's? I forgot.


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## xrunner

big ed said:


> Probably it is easier to make them in n scale?
> 
> What era are you doing?
> 50's? I forgot.


Modern era - today's trains.

I really don't think it's too hard to make the N scale crossing gates/signals as they should be - on one pole.


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## Xnats

You want the N.J. International ones then. They have a few different model all modern era.


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## Big Ed

xrunner said:


> Modern era - today's trains.
> 
> I really don't think it's too hard to make the N scale crossing gates/signals as they should be - on one pole.












Here you go scroll down they have some more.

http://www.nscalesupply.com/Nji/NJI.html

Where is the company.

New Jersey of course.:thumbsup:

Stop buying from whoever you are buying from get some realistic quality Jersey made RR items for your RR.


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## Big Ed

Xnats said:


> You want the N.J. International ones then. They have a few different model all modern era.



You beat me by a minute.:laugh:
But I have a link and picture.
Yes Jersey made.....:thumbsup:


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## Xnats

big ed said:


> .
> Yes Jersey made.....:thumbsup:


:thumbsup: 

Steve has a set on his layout, they are nice quality.


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## Big Ed

Xnats said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Steve has a set on his layout, they are nice quality.


They make some nice O items too.

http://www.njinternational.com/oscale1.htm

HO too,

http://www.njinternational.com/hoswitch.htm


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## NIMT

Xrunner,
The black and white gates with the S on the arm that is separate from the light pole is a twist/cross on the American gate version and various international version of the gates.


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> Xrunner,
> The black and white gates with the S on the arm that is separate from the light pole is a twist/cross on the American gate version and various international version of the gates.


Apparently so.

I'm not going to buy new ones @$17 for two arms (they don't include the sign either!). 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/N-J-International-N-Crossing-Gate-A-Arm-Ty-p/nji-2170.htm

Oh the prices for some of these model railroad items! Grrrr ...  hwell: This hobby can bankrupt a person if they don't watch the spending - that's another rant I guess.

Looks like I'll have to kit-bash what I've got to make them closer to the American style crossings. Now where did I put that plastic weld, micro drill, and red paint ...


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## Xnats

I know what you mean. I want this style but at 30 bucks, I never did buy any. 








Looking around on my work web site, I could not find any details that NJ Transit uses. Looking online under FHA, the feds have everything on one page :thumbsup: The details to scratch build the signals, details on proper placement and even adding traffic signals with preemption. I'm kind of tempted on trying to build one.
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/xings/com_roaduser/07010/sec04b.htm


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## xrunner

For a modern crossing this is a FAIL -










So, I'm redoing all the parts. I've painted the gates white w/red stripes and the back part silver. I also painted the signals to correctly match the real thing. 










Next I want to try and get the signal mast as close to the gate as possible to match the real thing. It won't be perfect but it will be pretty close.

This is what I'm shooting for -


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## gc53dfgc

Why don't you cutoff the base of the flashers and then glue the remaining stick and flasher to the pedestal that the gate swings on so it would be an all in one?


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## xrunner

gc53dfgc said:


> Why don't you cutoff the base of the flashers and then glue the remaining stick and flasher to the pedestal that the gate swings on so it would be an all in one?


Very good question - it's because the design of the model crossing gate is different than the real one at the end next to the pole. I looked at doing what you said but unfortunately the mechanics of the model gate wouldn't allow it to go up as far as needed if the pole is mounted on top. This is due to the gap and the way it prevents it from rotating up far enough. It's hard to explain in words but that's the problem.


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## xrunner

gc53dfgc said:


> Why don't you cutoff the base of the flashers and then glue the remaining stick and flasher to the pedestal that the gate swings on so it would be an all in one?


A picture is worth a thousand words - I placed the mast behind the gate as if it was really on top and you can see why it wouldn't work, the swivel point/gate design at the pole end isn't like the real thing. On the real one a line extending from the gate bar doesn't intersect the swivel point like the model, it's offset so the gate can rise up higher.


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## Big Ed

Now I know you won't want this because of the cost, but I thought I would show it to you anyway.


Red reflective brushon paint for all your RR needs.

5oz, $7.25 plus shipping. But a little bottle would go a long way on your RR.

http://www.liquidreflector.com/


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## NIMT

Here is one way to deal with the problem.


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## gc53dfgc

Or take the flashers off and move them forward from the main pole like in the real ones. That way it can go up to where is need to and you don't get rid of the counterbalance.


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## xrunner

big ed said:


> Now I know you won't want this because of the cost, but I thought I would show it to you anyway.[/URL]
> 
> View attachment 17350



Yea that's cool, might have to get some.



NIMT said:


> Here is one way to deal with the problem.


That's got possibilities. There is a ready-made pilot point for the hole. Let me look at your idea more closely. I will strongly consider it.

Found these today at Michael's MJ Designs. Guess what I'll use the small ones for?


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## tjcruiser

'Runner,

I've used stick-on jewels from Michaels similar to that as marker lights on a few locos, and tail lights on a few tenders. (The one's I grabbed were facetted, not pure round.) Either way, they make a nice easy add on to any project.

TJ


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> Here is one way to deal with the problem.
> View attachment 17351


It worked! I cut off the signal post from it's base. Then I glued it on top of the gate base and modified the gate end. I need to fill the original hole, and also use some of those rhinestones - you'll see what for.


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## gc53dfgc

I wonder how my idea would have worked?


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## xrunner

gc53dfgc said:


> I wonder how my idea would have worked?


In theory it would have, and I considered it, but in practice there was no simple way to remove the lights and move them forward.


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## NIMT

I wonder how I knew that worked like that?
I haven't painted mine yet! But I do have working lights, and will have working lights on the arm here shortly!
GC, I don't think the results of the pole in the front looks very good, I tried that one first.


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> I wonder how I knew that worked like that?


What! You had those pics and didn't show me? It was a test right? 



> I haven't painted mine yet! But I do have working lights, and will have working lights on the arm here shortly!


Lights, and on the arm too? Oh wait, your doing HO, well you got it easy! hwell:


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## Xnats

I'm going to say both look good guys. I'll take it even future and say it is easier to modify an existing junky one then try to do a scratch for nscale hwell: You'll have to let us know what the finial price comes to moding yours X.


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## xrunner

Xnats said:


> You'll have to let us know what the finial price comes to moding yours X.


Just about done. I'm adding the rhinestones to the gate bar to simulate the lights and it's like doing microsurgery. You HO and larger scale guys have it easy. Pics coming ...


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## Big Ed

xrunner said:


> Just about done. I'm adding the rhinestones to the gate bar to simulate the lights and it's like doing microsurgery. You HO and larger scale guys have it easy. Pics coming ...



The Rhinestone Cowboy  

Are they going to light up somehow?


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## xrunner

big ed said:


> The Rhinestone Cowboy
> 
> Are they going to light up somehow?


Not in this round. Perhaps in the future.



Xnats said:


> You'll have to let us know what the finial price comes to moding yours X.


The price was negligable, just the original gates and some rhinestones, and paint. Most of it involves time and patience. They look really good on the layout.

Original Bachmann N scale crossing gate -









Final Mod -


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## Big Ed

They look great.:thumbsup:

I don't know how good that reflective paint would work on small stuff.
It said something about applying beads after painting while the paint is still wet, I guess the beads is how it gets the reflective part on it.


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## Big Ed

How about reflective tape?

Just cut it to size and peel off the back and stick it on.

Though with the tape I can't find a small roll.

just stuff like this, I do have a part roll somewhere in my truck mess.

​*Conspicuity,Continuous,2 In,Rd/Slvr,Trck*
 Item # 4TDP8
Conspicuity Tape, Continuous Roll, Material Flexible Prismatic, Thickness 10 to 14 Mil, Width 2 In, Length 150 Ft, Color 6 In Red/6 In White

3M
963-326
1129Item ships within 4 business days from manufacturer 1 $116.05



I know you don't want that much, if I find what I have, I can stick a couple pieces in an envelope for you.

Or else our yard mechanic might have some too.


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## Xnats

1000 times better X :thumbsup: I wish I had something to work off of, lol. I might try another scratch build, with some thinner styrene. Is there any way to cut them rhinestones in half and use them in the flashers?
Ed I don't think the 3M tape would work to well in n scale. Using it back to back would be about 8"-9" thick in scale


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## xrunner

big ed said:


> How about reflective tape?
> 
> Just cut it to size and peel off the back and stick it on.


Gosh Ed thanks but the little stripes are soooo tiny I really don't think it would be an effective use of the tape.



Xnats said:


> 1000 times better X :thumbsup: I wish I had something to work off of, lol. I might try another scratch build, with some thinner styrene. Is there any way to cut them rhinestones in half and use them in the flashers?


Thank you.

I almost put the rhinestones in the signal lights too, but they were a tad too large. Not sure if they could be cut without breaking them.

The thing is, the picture shows some flaws of course with a close up but from a distance such as it is on the layout, they look super-realistic.

Now that those are out of the way, I need to keep planning on where to use my RR signal lights/sensors boards that are in the mail from the China dudes. That will really be fun to play with.

Now then, I want to see NIMT's HO scale modded with LEDs *LIT UP*!


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## NIMT

I'll post some pic's when I get the LED's in.


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> I'll post some pic's when I get the LED's in.


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## tjcruiser

'Runner,

Thumbs up on the end-results ... very nice custom mod work on these gates. Good how-to thread!

TJ


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