# mth dash-8 diesel can I install rear and marker lights



## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

guys my dash 8 diesel has spots for rear lights and marker lights and the number markers. I can upload some pics of the spots, but in general, can you drill out the spots and install lights in there? tie into existing cab lights? 

thanks, I thought maybe even mth had upgrade kits???

thanks chris


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

old464 said:


> guys my dash 8 diesel has spots for rear lights and marker lights and the number markers. I can upload some pics of the spots, but in general, can you drill out the spots and install lights in there? tie into existing cab lights?
> 
> thanks, I thought maybe even mth had upgrade kits???
> 
> thanks chris


NIMT or gunrunner could.
Throw a picture here, so when they log on they can examine it right away.

Never can have enough lighting, huh?:thumbsup:

How about some ditch lights too?:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For something cool, you could wire up bi-color red/green LED's for the markers. They're green when the engine is going in that direction, and red when the engine is going the other direction. What specific MTH locomotive is this, conventional, PS1, PS2, what?

If it has directional headlights, you should be able to tap off those and run the markers directionally as well. Give us more details and I'm sure we can get you going.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A picture too?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The exact MTH part number would be useful, then we can determine what we're dealing with.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

old464 said:


> guys my dash 8 diesel has spots for rear lights and marker lights and the number markers. I can upload some pics of the spots, but in general, can you drill out the spots and install lights in there? tie into existing cab lights?
> 
> thanks, I thought maybe even mth had upgrade kits???
> 
> thanks chris


wait, I have a MTH -8 , and all those lights on mine work, are you sure you don't have an electrical problem or something? like maybe a pc board ,broken wire, ect. I'am just saying I would pull the shell and take a look before I drill holes and ruin a beautiful locomotive JMO..............mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mike, I'm guessing that MTH made a bunch of different DASH-8 models. 

Perhaps some shots inside the shell so we can see what you're dealing with? Pictures are worth a thousand words.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

this is what the description is of the engine. attached pic until Ican give you more. there are spots where puddle lights may go. the rear has spots, not opened up. number boards also not lit. I thought if you can get factory parts, then you might be able to plug in?? thanks Chris 



ITEM NO. 30-2155-1


EXTREMELY RARE LOCOMOTIVE DUE TO BEING DISCONTINUED


3-RAIL FEATURES:

- Durable ABS Intricately Detailed Body

- All Metal Wheels, Gears & Chassis

- DCRU Electronic Reverse Unit

- Metal Handrails and Decorative Metal Horn

- Die-Cast Truck Blocks

- Operating Die-Cast Metal Couplers

- Equipped with Electronic Horn

- Operates on O-27 Track

- Operating Headlight

- Optionally Equipped with Proto-Sound Digital Sound and Train Control System

- Proto-Sound Features: Squeaking Brakes, Freight Yard Proto-Effects

- Sounds and Remotely Controlled Proto-Couplers Designed by OSI


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/bl-212.html

guys. I saw this website and they use these evans design LED's supposed to be realy good. this website shows to use them in many applications of engines, etc. check it out. 

my question is the sizing. the spots for the ditch lights are small, so I guess the 1.8mm ones for the headlight and rear light and bottom markers. I thought yellow in the front and red ones in the rear if I can find spots. The number boards............. not sure how to construct these lenses. lights seem to be the easy thing now. 

chris


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can "roll your own" very simply and save significant money over the Evans LED's. I use 3mm LED's for headlights, and for ditch lights. Usually markers are 2mm.

I mentioned the red/green for the markers because that's what a number of Lionel Legacy locomotives are doing nowadays, looks pretty cool. You could also do yellow/red for the markers.

Is your Locomotive the RailKing 30-2155-1? If so, here's User Manual and a Parts List.

It appears it has the very basic single bulb for lighting, so you can go crazy adding lights.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It is hard to offer any opinions with little information. A lighting project has a power source ( power may need to be modified), and all the lights have to be planned out.. In just size there are many options. I am guessing LEDs. To determine size a good view of the cab area would help, I have no idea how to answer your "tie into existing cab lights" question without seeing what is to be replaced, 

John has stepped in the right direction with the part list.

A good shell off the frame picture is a start. I saw DC motors too.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yea Evans designs LED's are pricey!
I can stick and led in anything, It's just a matter of how much effort is required, Size of equipment plays a huge roll in it.
Most O scale requires very little effort to install LED's as there is usually a ton of room to work with.
GRJ has been working extensively with lighting recently for his O equipment and coming up with some great results.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The engine is a PS/1 unit but has dirt simple lighting, just one bulb in front.

There are connections for directional lighting on the PS/1 board, so it's possible to do something there. You can also work with diodes and LED's directly off the motors for directional lighting. For the motors, I'd probably look at using something like a LM317L or a CL-2 for current regulation. By connecting diodes to the motors in opposite directions, you can generate lighting for forward and reverse operation easily.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks gunrunner for the parts list! where di you get that? thanks to the others for your info. 

where is the best source for these LED's? will they last? the evans seem to last?

thanks 
Chris


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, any LED should last if it's properly wired and protected in the circuit, there's nothing special about the ones that Evans uses. They're not a bad choice, you just end up paying a lot more for the lighting for a slight ease of use bonus. You will also have some issues trying to make them directional if you want to go that way. I figure if I'm going to the trouble of doing lighting, I might as well do something neat.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

old464 said:


> Thanks gunrunner for the parts list! where di you get that? thanks to the others for your info.
> 
> where is the best source for these LED's? will they last? the evans seem to last?
> 
> ...



Didn't you know MTH has a site?

All that info is there.

http://www.mthtrains.com/


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well Ed, MTH certainly isn't the place to go to do upgrades to the lighting on this locomotive! They're fine for parts, but they don't advise on modifications from stock.

I use either Digikey or Mouser for my electrical parts, they're both much cheaper than places like Radio Shack, and have reasonable shipping. Digikey for small orders typically only charges a couple of bucks shipping, Mouser typically starts at around $5 for shipping.

I've purchased LED's from tons of different places, I have probably at least a thousand of them of all sizes and shapes. Another place you can frequently score LED's is eBay, they're so cheap at times I wonder how they ever make money!


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Mike, I'm guessing that MTH made a bunch of different DASH-8 models.
> 
> Perhaps some shots inside the shell so we can see what you're dealing with? Pictures are worth a thousand words.



My bad ,for some reason,I tought it was a premier model dash 8,sorry........mike


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

I wish it was, the spots for the lights are there, so all I have to do is drill out the spots. will look factory. I thought of the yellow one on top also. Get some opaque film for the inside because all you see is the bulb and motor. looks bad. they should do the opaque film on these since there is no cab driver. 

Ill look into these sites. 

Mike, I knew the site was there. I did not ever try to plug in the model # to search for my actual engine. Now I know! thanks. 

chris


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The factory isn't going to help you with these mods, I can assure you of that.

For cab figures, I put some baffling in behind the window and mount an engineer figure so you can see him and not the interior of the locomotive.

For the spots, I use a very small pilot drill to center the hole, then drill them to exactly fit the LED that I'm going to use for the lights. You can grind down the tops of LED's to make them flush with the surface and then polish the ends, I've done that in the past as well.

One tip with LED's. I'd wire them all up outside the shell, then drop them in as a unit and secure the wires to the shell. I use hot glue to tack all the wires to the shell, and I also use a connector so I can take the shell off and disconnect any wiring to it.

If you're at all handy with hand tools, you can do a nice job on an O-scale shell for LED's, it's not that hard. Just work carefully so you don't mark up the shell.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

old464 said:


> Thanks gunrunner for the parts list! where di you get that? thanks to the others for your info.
> 
> where is the best source for these LED's? will they last? the evans seem to last?
> 
> ...





gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well Ed, MTH certainly isn't the place to go to do upgrades to the lighting on this locomotive! They're fine for parts, but they don't advise on modifications from stock.
> 
> I use either Digikey or Mouser for my electrical parts, they're both much cheaper than places like Radio Shack, and have reasonable shipping. Digikey for small orders typically only charges a couple of bucks shipping, Mouser typically starts at around $5 for shipping.
> 
> I've purchased LED's from tons of different places, I have probably at least a thousand of them of all sizes and shapes. Another place you can frequently score LED's is eBay, they're so cheap at times I wonder how they ever make money!


I agree on the upgrades.
When he said thanks for the parts list, I clicked on your link (parts list) and it brings you to the MTH site?

Where is the parts list for upgrades? 
Did you pm him one?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm thinking he's talking about the parts vendors I mentioned?


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

the digikey ones? perhaps. 

the mth parts is that gear icon to the far right on the engine page itself. but not all parts diagrams are available for some reason. (schematics) i tried to look up a premier dash 8 and could not get a diagram. but I just picked an engine off Ebay that had a number and plugged it in.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

hey john, are these the diodes Ill need as you posted in my Dwarf signal LED's? 

Digikey

http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/1N4005-TP/1N4005-TPMSCT-ND/773692

that was the link you gave me. not sure can I use these types on all the LED's I use or do you have to match up somehow each LED? 

thanks
Chris


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

a few pics of the dash 8 front, you can see the spots to place the lights. I do want to get the cab lighting changed. There is one bulb for the cab and headlight. really cheap way. Im going to remove that light, and fix an LED at the headlight spot, then a seperate light in the cab. I think Ill create a cab with a driver. if you guys have any pics of a created thing, I would appreciate it. Im also going to place a red LED in the rear headlight position for looks. maybe a yellow on top of the cab!

I also want to try obtaining a smoke unit as the premier units have these. if anybody know if there is plug in circuit into these cheaper Dash-8's for a smoke unit, Id be really appreciative! 

chris


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Down below the platform, those round things are the ditch lights, they'd be cool to add as well.  I don't see the dimples for the markers, are they hidden by the railing? In most MTH locomotives, the headlights can be exactly replaced using a 3mm LED, perfect fit.  I see some DASH-8 units with a strobe on top of the cab as well.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2oUTXcTgRo

this would be cool to duplicate the smoke and lights. 

Where would the markers be located? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46KrPZoBlJM&feature=related

this southern engine is really cool excellent sound effects, sounds like the trains near my house! 

anyhow, the numberboard lights is what I am after and Im gonna try to light these up. I will cut clear plastic and insert into opening and light up behind. a black # decal can be inserted. this will be work! but first I need the LED's and the diodes.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's where I think they are on this one, hard to tell. Maybe they didn't have markers.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

At least the # boards will cool lit up on this one. there are ones in the back I might light up also.

chris


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

IF they're transparent, I put alight behind them, looks great that way.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This is not your engine, but the markers are right about where you pointed to.










The number boards would look nice lit up.
This one got smashed when it ran into a downed tree, knocked one of the number boards out. 
Crummy picture as it was still dark outside.

I like the ideal of a blinking strobe light.:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This one has them there, Conrail 6114, a Dash 8-40CW.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I thought that was where they should be, it's hard to see on his shell if there's a dimple there for them. There can be a hole for a 2mm LED however, plastic drills really easily.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

yeah, I think the ditch lights, number boards front and rear and the headlights and cabin. even the rear headlights. 

Ill get all 3mm LED's and then a strobe light on top. looks like it will be a mess of wires.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You mean like this amount of wiring.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

You O guys have it made for room try lighting HO


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Very cool Sean, looks like it all fit.  I'll admit, the O-scale stuff is a lot easier to work on, which is why I run it.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Thank You, It's like the tail lights in your track inspection car, Custom cut and Bent LED's. You should see me stuff 3 LED's and DCC in a N plymouth switcher!
The wire I use is 30 AWG teflon jacketed single strand, Tough and Tiny!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those lights were wired with #32 wire wrap wire, the light stuff is Teflon, the black is regular insulation, but it's pretty heat resistant. It's must easier to work with and hide the small wires, and there's no point in having bigger stuff for LED's.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

wow, you guys should do a tutorial on LED lighting and what/how to light up these shells properly. looks like Hot glue was used john to hold wires to top? and what is the board? is that a DCC board? Do I need one of those or is that something you customized for flashing or alternating the lights back and forth for the ditch ones? 

are the diodes you talk about on that board? can I just buy a board? if its easy enough. You guys are the experts and I am really glad you are willing to show and discuss this for us "amateurs"! 

chris

PS: I looked at the engine and no spaces for those markers. those # boards are in the spots. guess I could stick them under the # boards.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I use hot glue for a lot of the wiring, it's just really convenient and I don't have to wait around for it to dry.

The board in that one is a custom board I did to do switching of the lighting. The classification lights, mars light, and cab light are all sequenced so I can have any combination. The board also has all the diodes and resistors for the front and rear markers and headlights.

You can wire the diodes and resistors in-line for simpler wiring, I prefer to have them all on a little board so I can run a single plug to the whole thing. This makes taking the shell off for maintenance really easy.

Here's my thread on lighting that locomotive: CAT Locomotive Lighting (part 2). You can see this was a bit more complicated than the standard lighting job. 

This was actually my second try, the red/white LED's that I really built the first attempt around turned out to be defective, and they were the only ones I could find like that. I scrapped that board and started over.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Chris,
If you engine is like a few of mine, there are no places for the markers, they incorporate them in the number boards, I have done that to a few of mine.
That engine has a QSI sound board in it doesn't it? That sound board will run all the added lighting and let you have control over the lights too. Was I trying to help you program it? If it is and it was that will explain why we were having problems programing it, It's not a DCC board like I use it's a DCS board, they work similar but they program different.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sean, do you have documentation for the PS/1 board wiring? I'd find that useful if you do.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I don't, But I'll make a call or two to some of my connections and see what I can come up with!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The question comes up now and then about wiring custom lights to the PS/1 boards. I have never seen any documentation for the boards, even though some locomotives have directional lights, so there must be a way to tap off the board for those.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't know if I want to mess with the boards. I thought if there is a plug and play board. i just don't know about building boards and so forth. I'll do the basic wiring and hook it into the single bulb base. 

All I need to know now is

1. can I hook all the common leads together with LED
2. I will need diodes for each LED, correct?
3. i can hook direct to the existing bulb location? 
4. Do they make a stobe yellow that I can just hook into the rest of lighting?

my mth is a PS1 by QSI. it would be really cool if the boards had tiny plugs as to push a wire into a socket like thing like an auto harness plug. 

You guys used 3mm for the lights, drill out to fit bulbs. 

thanks guys, I owe ya one


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can use a single diode for LED's wired to the common return, but you need separate resistors for each. You can wire a couple of LED's in series and use a single resistor for them.

There are blinking yellow LED's of various sizes that you can use for a strobe. There's no need for the board, that was way fancier than you need to go for yours. 

Are you thinking of directional lights here? We could probably wire them to the motors for that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

NIMT said:


> It's not a DCC board like I use it's a DCS board, they work similar but they program different.


This is not a DCS locomotive, it's a ProtoSounds 1 model. You don't program this one, and it doesn't have command/control.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-PRE-WIRE...589?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae4dc0add

is 9 volt LED ok, or do I need more volts??? 

I found these on Ebay. they are 9volt. resistors built in. so if i wired them together to a common lead. I just need that Diode hooked on before attaching the wire to the source of the loco. I thought I might have had to hook diodes on each led wire.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't think you want blue LED's for this job! 

Really, you should just wire these yourself.

First step here is to decide exactly what lights you want to put in and what colors they will be. Obviously, the headlights will be white or warm-white. I'd guess the markers will be red if you do them. Ditch lights if you add them are white or warm-white as well.

Next, if you want directional lights, we should talk about how that would work.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

NO, not these ones! I just looked at ebay, wrong ones! haha. 

thanks 
Chris


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

hey guys, found some LED's 3mm for 59c wired with resistors. 

niktronix is the retailer. they have a bunch of LED's flashing, colors and sizes. cheap. I will just need the Diodes. ordered up. Ill give pics and what Im up to when i start doing this project on the Dash 8. 

thanks for all the help. I may need more........ if your willing! 
Chris


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

ok im rady to go, almost. still need the diodes. but I got the warm white prewired LED lights. I got some red ones and yellow flashing one for the top. Ill need some kind of spray that you can fog out the cab glass. Ill be drilling out the ditch lights and rear light spots and number boards. Ill use my dremel for that. 

Nitronix had the LED's cheap. I got a whole bunch for 10 bucks. Ill be lighting my K line KBL can and some buildings. 


I am posting a pic of the engines computer board. need some help here. there are 3 plug in ports on the board. I wondered what these are for. options? im not educated in the MTH electronics. you'll see where I point to and perhaps you may know what they are for. thanks 
Chris


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