# Just a beginner on S scale



## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

Hello all, my wife and I are beginning to get into model trains specifically S scale. We are new to the industry but are looking forward to learning and purchasing high quality engines. At some point I would like to get into refurbishing them. I do have a couple questions that have arose since I started delving into model trains. As far as the quality of the engines goes, do you recommend refurbishing less quality engines or do collectors prefer weathered items? Are there any of you out there that have duplicate models that you are willing to sell? 

Again, we are just beginners but have a strong desire to become fully vested and to hopefully inspire our youngest children to get involved. Thank you in advance for any suggestions or comments.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Just curious, what made you decide on S scale? Welcome to the forum.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Hello in Wisconsin...The main reason I got into Flyers is that is what I had as a kid. I'm reliving my childhood through toy trains, and it keeps me from spending my money doing shots at the local sports bar,lol...Are you going to collect flyers or will be be operating them?? There are all sorts of different values for old flyer stuff.. The number on the cab, or on the side of the car/diesel unit, will be your first starting point. Buy yourself a price guide.. Bear in mind, it's called a price GUIDE for a reason. Some people will spend a bundle on an engine that's only worth about $35-$40 bucks.Repairing them is easy!!! Parts are available from PortLine Hobbies, as that's where most of us here get our parts from. There's lots of manuals out there for you also, and we have a ton of knowledge here to help. Engines such as a 302, 302AC, have both smoke and choo choo sounds. Some engines do, and some don't. These 2 engines are great little engines for you to start your hobby with; easy to work on, parts are available, and you should be able to pick either one of them up for around $35-$45 bucks, in good running condition.There are also cars that will have 2 distinct type of couplers; the early coupler is a link coupler, and the later style is a knuckle coupler. They are not compatible with each other. Car numbers that have a 6 as a starting number such as 630, 631, or 645 will have a link coupler.. Cars that start with 9, such as 931, 945, or 944, will have a knuckle coupler. They can be changed to whatever you like though. I know I'm all over the place here with my info, but there's alot of info to be gathered. Ask away, and we'll be glad to help you out.Ebay is a good start to get a feel for things...


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Welcome to the Forum. What Flyernut has stated pertains to the American Flyer line of toy trains produced in the late 40's through early 60's until they went belly-up. These were the old S-Scale trains made by the A.C. Gilbert Company. Lionel now manufactures a limited line of American Flyer products with better detail, but in my mind, not as good quality, but still toys. However, you mentioned a desire to find "high quality" S-Scale items. There are high quality S-Scale model railroaders out there who can offer excellent quality items, but be prepared to spend plenty of $$$$$$$. My first suggestion is for you to check the NASG (National Association of S-Gaugers website for info in this Scale to help decide how you wish to proceed in this hobby. There you will find a plethora of information on both the Flyers we spoke about and the high quality S-scale items that I mentioned. There are also a whole bunch of resources for manufacturers who sell S-scale items - engines, cars, scenery, buildings, etc. Here is a link to their website....

http://www.nasg.org/


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Welcome to the Forum. What Flyernut has stated pertains to the American Flyer line of toy trains produced in the late 40's through early 60's until they went belly-up. These were the old S-Scale trains made by the A.C. Gilbert Company. Lionel now manufactures a limited line of American Flyer products with better detail, but in my mind, not as good quality, but still toys. However, you mentioned a desire to find "high quality" S-Scale items. There are high quality S-Scale model railroaders out there who can offer excellent quality items, but be prepared to spend plenty of $$$$$$$. My first suggestion is for you to check the NASG (National Association of S-Gaugers website for info in this Scale to help decide how you wish to proceed in this hobby. There you will find a plethora of information on both the Flyers we spoke about and the high quality S-scale items that I mentioned. There are also a whole bunch of resources for manufacturers who sell S-scale items - engines, cars, scenery, buildings, etc. Here is a link to their website....
> 
> http://www.nasg.org/


Great answer, as usual. Thanks for the back-up..


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

We decided on the standard scale because from my understanding they are harder to find and a bit more unique. Thank you for the response as well as the welcoming message.


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

Wow! That is a lot of information to digest but we truly appreciate the help. I am a bit of a novice to the forum protocol. I want to make sure I respond to specific message but am unsure of how to do that exactly.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Are you planning on the Standard gauge or S gauge? Looking at the link below, it appears that standard gauge is 3 rail while s gauge is 2 rail.
http://www.gargraves.com/flextrack.html


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

This is where my ignorance is coming through. Our interest lies with the larger scales and from what I was reading I thought it was the S scale but today I read something about G scale. If anyone can help clarify the scales that would be very appreciated.


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

Thank you for the information Flyernut! The point of refurbishing is a long ways away because I certainly want to get my feet wet first and learn, learn, learn.


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks for the information Nuttin But Flyer! I guess I was not specific about the model train engines we are pursuing. We only want to deal with vintage engines in the larger scale; still unsure of what that is to be honest. Your comment about spending $$$$$$ for high quality engines does not surprise me at all. My biggest concern is knowing which ones to buy because of the significant different numbers, manufactures, etc...


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## PhoebeSnow (Mar 1, 2014)

R & r check out this link it might help clarify the difference in scales.

http://www.building-your-model-railroad.com/model-train-scales.html


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Phoebe -- I was under the impression he was set on S-scale but maybe I got that wrong....


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks Pheobe that helped. Nuttin but Flyer I thought I was as well but again my ignorance is coming through.


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

So, please help me some more. What I am understanding is the O scale is larger than S scale and what about G scale?


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

R&R -- hopefully I can help you to understand the differences....

Meanwhile here is a website I just found that, to me, is a professional S-Scale hobby, in fact the scale is Sn3. Please don't ask me what the difference is because I'm still a newbie there. Here is that website..... 

http://www.theinsidegateway.com/sn3symposium-2015.htm

Now back to the differences in Scales...if you search model RR scale comparison, you will find some images that show various scales side-by-side that will show the size differential. Hopefully the image I found will display here and show that difference.









I'll try to explain them from largest to smallest.....
Based on info that, and please anyone correct me if I falter, I can offer, G scale is the largest items that many folks use for outdoor railroads in their gardens, etc. A common manufacturer of those is LGB. Of course there are others. Standard gauge, close to that same size, is not "S" gauge as I once thought. This is a scale that is fairly large, larger than Lionel and uses 3-rail track. I do not know the ratio to real size. I am unsure if this is manufactured any longer as I have seen much of these items dating back to 1920's and 1930's. They were made by such manufacturers as Lionel, American Flyer and others but are not as realistic as today's items. The next scale I am familiar with is the most common large scale which is O-Scale at 1/48 (or is it 1/43??) of real size. This also runs on 3-rail track, slightly smaller than Standard. The most familiar manufacturer of these is Lionel, again there are many others -- Williams, MTH, Weaver, etc. The next scale going smaller would be the S-Scale that we discussed before. These are designed at 1/64th of real and were manufactured by American Flyer who I believe was the pioneer in this scale. American Models and S-Helper were other manufacturers more recently. Other manufacturers have dabbled in the market when some of these failed. I believe MTH now absorbed and manufacturers the S-Helper line. There is a scale known as Sn3 which I am to understand is a professional S-scale such as the website mentioned in the beginning of this post, but I do not know how it differs with the American Flyer items. I do know this is what I call serious model RR-ing and is quite costly, but very realistic. From there we drop to HO, which is easy to understand -- HO means Half of O-Scale thus HO. This is 1/87 of real size. There are tons of manufacturers who produce HO scale items, Atlas comes to mind as one here in the US. But considering all other scales, this is probably the most popular choice and offers just about anything one would want. Below that is N-Scale. I know little about it other than it is smaller than HO. Even smaller yet is Z scale which I could not see without a magnifying glass.

Trust me when I say this is merely a drop in the bucket comparison. There is much I did not cover or know enough to offer. So I suggest you do some more research on the internet or your neighborhood library if you are still unsure which scale interests you.

What I can offer is the reason I am into S-Scale. Back in the 1950's my Father bought 2 American Flyer train sets in 1955 for use to set up at Christmas time. These are S-Scale. After a couple of years, he acquired another 3 used sets along with a bunch of action accessories from a guy down the street from us for $100. These were later packed away in my Mother's attic for decades until she moved into assisted living. I had moved onto HO modeling for a while but never seriously. When it became time to empty her home and sell it, I gathered all I could of my Flyer items and did a search for value finding these were quite valuable as vintage American Flyer items. Seeing their value, it then became my goal to not only repair these items back to working condition, but to begin a collection of more items to create a large permanent layout in my home. I have been collecting items since and now have a large collection of trains, cars, accessories and track. The only thing I need is the space and time to start. This will be my retirement project as well as something for my Grandson to become interested and acquire when the timing arrives. I still have my HO items and may also include some room for that as well.

So the options are endless. You will have a lot of research to make your decision. But I know that whatever you decide, the folks here will not only offer helpful support, they will also be learning from you as they do. We are all one happy group here no matter which scale we use.


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## PhoebeSnow (Mar 1, 2014)

R&R said:


> So, please help me some more. What I am understanding is the O scale is larger than S scale and what about G scale?


R & R G scale is the largest and is usually run outdoors. G stands for Giant or Garden scale. I have some G scale trains and they dwarf my American Flyer stuff. I have a Bachmann G scale Shay logging loco and I bet it weighs at least 10 lbs.


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

Nuttin But Flyer----That information and explanation is very helpful. It actually helped solidify our decision to stay with O or S scale vintage engines. We will certainly do some more research and we will let you know how our first purchase go, which will be in the next week or so. We cannot thank everyone enough who commented and provided resources. 

Sorry to keep asking questions; however, are there any good places we can go to purchase the vintage engines? We are just trying to use as many avenues as possible to learn as quickly as possible.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

R&R.. If you're looking for the old, large stuff, you probably are talking STANDARD SCALE. This scale was made back in the 1920's or even earlier. I have my dad's Lionel train set, made in 1927, all in the original boxes, and it runs perfect. Lionel, Ives, and American Flyer each made standard scale, as it was the "standard of the world". G scale is close, but no cigar.. MTH has come out with new standard scale engines and rolling stock, and I would take a close look at their offerings. They make great stuff!! Hope this helps, and doesn't confuse you further.. And when answering threads/posts, just holler out at what you want/mean,lol..We're here to help, and by gum, we'll help, even if you don't want it,lol. There's no protocol; just be honest, sincere, and no potty mouth, as this is a very family-orientated forum, and many a young one just might be listening...Enjoy us, pester us, and ask questions!!!... And we LOVE pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## R&R (Jan 13, 2015)

That did confuse me a little bit more. So you are saying the standard scale is different than O or S scale? We will certainly provide pictures when we get them. Trust me, we will be pestering all of you quite a bit. Lol.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

There is different scales and within each scale there is different track. For instance, in your original post you were inquiring about s scale which has 2 different track configurations, 2 rail and 3 rail. http://www.gargraves.com/flextrack.html
Look at this link and it will give you some idea as to the many scales and options within each scale. Pheobe posted a good link to the difference in size of each scale. You last mentioned G scale. That is big and usually used outdoors. How big is your room for the layout?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

R&R said:


> That did confuse me a little bit more. So you are saying the standard scale is different than O or S scale? We will certainly provide pictures when we get them. Trust me, we will be pestering all of you quite a bit. Lol.


Standard scale is bigger than o and s.Standard scale is usually 3 rail..


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Bwells said:


> There is different scales and within each scale there is different track. For instance, in your original post you were inquiring about s scale which has 2 different track configurations, 2 rail and 3 rail. http://www.gargraves.com/flextrack.html
> Look at this link and it will give you some idea as to the many scales and options within each scale. Pheobe posted a good link to the difference in size of each scale. You last mentioned G scale. That is big and usually used outdoors. How big is your room for the layout?


I never seen 3-rail s gauge track before..


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Yep, I stand corrected. I went back to my link and see that standard gauge is different than s scale(gauge). The stuff I have from my father is all 2 rail s scale from the early 50's with a lot of the Gargraves flex he bought in the late 90's. I still have it but not real sure what to do with it as I remember the trains when I was real tiny and was not allowed to touch them.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Here is a link to standard gauge. My assumption now is that it lies between s scale and O?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Gauge_(toy_trains)


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Bwells said:


> Here is a link to standard gauge. My assumption now is that it lies between s scale and O?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Gauge_(toy_trains)


No, standard scale is much larger than o and s.If I have time, I'll take some pix of all three, but no promises..


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Here is a photo of the major scales compared side-by-side that might be better than the one I posted before. Just a point of reference, I believe Standard scale is between G and O & O27 and unfortunately is NOT shown in this photo......


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

R - Have you ever been to, or even heard of "local train shows"? These are more or less a flea market of model trains and accessories, both new and used, often vintage, that hobbyists hold in various places such as fire halls, union halls, etc. Often these are scheduled on Sundays which allow visitors who have off work to attend. Usually there is a minor fee at the door to get in which offsets the hall rental for the organizer. I suggest you try to find one of these in your area, or within driving distance and attend to get a close-up, hands-on idea what scales are available. Most vendors are receptive to answer questions with new hobbyists although some can be a bit arrogant. Don't let that kind of attitude bother you. Here is a website I like to use to locate these shows...

http://trc.trains.com/events.aspx?page=list


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