# pulling power



## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

Hello,

I'm new to the forum, and not real experienced with trains, and have a question.

My young grandson likes to haul Lincoln logs in the hoppers, and even though they're cedar they add weight to the train. The single motor diesel that pulls them does OK, but I'd buy him a new engine if something more powerful is available. 

I want to know how you guys determine pulling power when selecting a locomotive. It seems to me that voltage is more a measure of acceleration while amps/watts (at least with power tools) is more a measure of power. I can't see where the manufacturers state the amperage ratings for their locomotives, so how do you do a comparison?

I would like a steam locomotive, O-27, conventional control (I have an 80 watt transformer), no grades on layout, usually pull 7 cars, 3 or 4 log carriers (gondolas) but I would buy a 2 motor diesel if there are no powerful O-27 steam units.

thanks,
Waddy


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Welcome aboard.

I'm not familiar with a steamer that has 2 motors, unless you look at a very large steamer, then it won't navigate 027.

There are some nice GP7s with 2 DC motors that have a lot of power. 

With too much weight, you may have a problem with the 027 27" curves.

A few logs from a log dump car would probably work better.

I know, I know, what the grandson wants, the grandson gets


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I would look for a post war engine with magnetration. It helps pull the engine to the tracks so the wheels don't spin on the rails. What loco do you have?


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Most engines made for O27 track are single motor. If you went to O or FasTrack then you can more readily find a dual motor locomotive.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

You just need to 'double head' your steam. Here's a video:






They get double headed about the 4 minute mark.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Or, just get one of these. American Flyer 572 Union Pacific 4-8-4.

Mine pulls 45 assorted Lionel freight cars from a dead stop.
American Flyer Big Pull


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## FM Trainmaster (Nov 13, 2013)

I suspect the 2321 FM Trainmaster could navigate O27, but I'd have to give it a try to confirm. Among post-war loco's, it's one of the (maybe 'the'?) more powerful diesels for pulling long trains. I think they had magnetraction for the entire production run.

http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=2321


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I don't think te trainmaster will run on O27.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

the FM Trainmaster will run, albeit barely, on O27 curves but it does not clear the boxes on the switches.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm thinking something like a 2046 baby Hudson.


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## FM Trainmaster (Nov 13, 2013)

BigAl56 said:


> the FM Trainmaster will run, albeit barely, on O27 curves but it does not clear the boxes on the switches.



Ahh... had not considered that. I don't have any O27 switches... just classic 022's and 042's for O31 track.

Does the OP have switches in his layout? Might be best to upgrade from that O27 track to real O-gauge, as this opens up many options for more pulling power.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

FM Trainmaster said:


> Ahh... had not considered that. I don't have any O27 switches... just classic 022's and 042's for O31 track.
> 
> Does the OP have switches in his layout? Might be best to upgrade from that O27 track to real O-gauge, as this opens up many options for more pulling power.
> 
> ...


By "real" O-gauge do you mean 31" radius curved track as opposed to O-27's smaller radius curves?

thanks,
Waddy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I do believe that's what he means. The O31 switches are much more robust than the O27 models as a rule as well.


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## FM Trainmaster (Nov 13, 2013)

With O27, you're obviously looking at 27" curves and switches. If you upgrade to O gauge, you could have numerous different curves, but of course O31 is most common in tubular.

O27 tubular uses lower ties and 0.090" pins, whereas O gauge tubular uses taller ties and 0.110" pins. You can use any curve diameter you like, and mix and match curves, all within O gauge tubular.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

I don't have any switches on the layout, just a big rectangle that follows the outside of the 4X8' layout; another track just inside it; and a third track shaped sort of like a dog bone raised above part of the other two. One transformer controls the outside track and another transformer controls the two other tracks. So I run one transformer and he runs the other one. Usually he runs the bigger outside track; it's an easy set-up for us both. Can't get too complicated with a five yr old.

I appreciate all the suggestions from you experienced railroaders; you guys make a fella feel welcome.

I might add that he also likes to load gondolas with his Match Book diecast cars as well as the Lincoln Logs; so far we haven't had issues with couplers. But we're probably pushing the weight envelope.... 

What I've decided to try first is to couple two locomotives, and I'm looking to buy a set. I thought the second locomotive on all trains was un-powered, but now I know better. I got this idea from rkenny's post who said simply "double head". What an elegantly simple solution if it works. I think the CW80 transformer can power that set-up.

Waddy


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

David Smith shows the best way to double head two post war lionel steam locomotives in this CTT forum thread. Pictures are about half way down.

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/172006.aspx

You'll want the coupler to follow the front :smilie_daumenpos:truck.

I've been planning on doing this for a while but figure I'll get an extra leading truck off Evil-bay and modify that.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

rkenney said:


> David Smith shows the best way to double head two post war lionel steam locomotives in this CTT forum thread. Pictures are about half way down.
> 
> http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/172006.aspx
> 
> ...


That was a great video. I have an MTH GP20 diesel (Atlantic Coast Lines) that already has a front coupler. What could I use as a second unit (that would be fairly correct) and do I need to synch them up somehow? (won't they run at slightly different speeds?)

Waddy


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

If you're willing to consider older used options, I'd look for a postwar steam locomotive with magnetraction. I have a 2037 that can pull 30+ cars. There are lots around and can be bought pretty inexpensively.


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## infernisdiem (Nov 12, 2011)

I have a Lionel engine number 8902, down side is that it does not have an E unit, and it was originally DC, now with a bridge rectifier installed it only goes forward, but the thing can haul (not including the tender) 7 cars total, 2 marx log haulers, 2 marx box cars, 1 lionel car carrier, 1 lionel hopper car, and 1 marx caboose. My hopper car is my transition car, but both log carriers have the logs, the car hauler is full of hotwheels cars (my son insists on changing them constantly) 1 of my box cars was an experiment when I added BB's for weight, though it did not make much difference in my opinion, and my hopper usually has whatever my son throws into it, for a while it was all the burnt out christmas lightbulbs that I had to change lol.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

I misspoke about what engine we're talking about. I have a Lionel SD18, single motor.

Since I've decided, thanks to input here, to try just to "double-head" this train first, and use the SD18 with another diesel.

Will I need to sych up the two locomotives somehow so they pull at the same speed?

BTW; Where is a good place to buy O27 scale track switches, bridges, and other track warning lights? 

How about decals? I thought my grandson and I could have some fun weathering some of the cheap rolling stock I have. He's naturally pretty good at making things look old and beat-up. 

thanks,
Waddy


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

infernisdiem said:


> I have a Lionel engine number 8902, down side is that it does not have an E unit, and it was originally DC, now with a bridge rectifier installed it only goes forward, but the thing can haul (not including the tender) 7 cars total, 2 marx log haulers, 2 marx box cars, 1 lionel car carrier, 1 lionel hopper car, and 1 marx caboose. My hopper car is my transition car, but both log carriers have the logs, the car hauler is full of hotwheels cars (my son insists on changing them constantly) 1 of my box cars was an experiment when I added BB's for weight, though it did not make much difference in my opinion, and my hopper usually has whatever my son throws into it, for a while it was all the burnt out christmas lightbulbs that I had to change lol.


infernisdiem

If you put your rectifier between the transformer and track, you can reverse the engine using a dpdt switch. With 2 switches, you can go from AC to DC and change direction on the DC loco. Be careful if you have other locos with electronics or I'm speaking a foreign language.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Waddy, not sure how it would work exactly. But what trains to you want to lash up? The Lionel is a newer train with a can motor right? The other one would need to be similar. I'm just guessing here. But if the other train is post war it might need a lot more power. I guess put the faster train in the lead? Anyone try this without using command?


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## infernisdiem (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave Sams said:


> infernisdiem
> 
> If you put your rectifier between the transformer and track, you can reverse the engine using a dpdt switch. With 2 switches, you can go from AC to DC and change direction on the DC loco. Be careful if you have other locos with electronics or I'm speaking a foreign language.


I think that I know what you are talking about, basically I would have to have a double pull double throw switch that went from transformer to DPDT switch, then from the switch Side A is AC directly to the track, and Side B feeds to a bridge rectifier, then from the rectifier, another DPDT switch to the track to control the forward and reverse of the train.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Voltage is not a measure of acceleration, it is a measure of electric potential. All O gauge transformers output 0-18v AC. Amperage is not a measurement of power, it is a measurement of current flowing through a circuit. Wattage is the measurement of electrical power. Model train locomotives are not rated according to power, you just have to ask around to find out which ones have more pulling power. As mentioned in other posts, the dual-motored Diesel models are going to have the most pulling power.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

infernisdiem said:


> I think that I know what you are talking about, basically I would have to have a double pull double throw switch that went from transformer to DPDT switch, then from the switch Side A is AC directly to the track, and Side B feeds to a bridge rectifier, then from the rectifier, another DPDT switch to the track to control the forward and reverse of the train.


Yep, that's what I did. 

If the bridge rectifier worked ok on the engine, you should be in good shape.


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## infernisdiem (Nov 12, 2011)

Actually I snagged the rectifier from a lionel hand car that stopped working and wired it to my lionel train, and had a laugh when I discovered that I wired it backwards lol


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