# Who runs DC only?



## davidone

I like to run DC only but I do like the sound and smoke steam locomotives with dual mode decoders. They all run great on DC but I am always being told I should go to DCC. 

I really don't like DCC so I'm I the only one that runs just DC and enjoying it?


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## mopac

I don't know what you could dislike about DCC. But it is your railroad, run it anyway
you want. Don't let other people tell you how to run it. I vowed to stay DC but I have gone to the other side and don't want to go back.


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## raleets

I'm running strictly DC on four separate tracks with four separate transformers. Works just dandy for me!
Bob


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## davidone

mopac said:


> I don't know what you could dislike about DCC. But it is your railroad, run it anyway
> you want. Don't let other people tell you how to run it. I vowed to stay DC but I have gone to the other side and don't want to go back.


I don't dislike DCC but at my age I don't feel like messing with cv's, speed matching, etc. I also don't do operations, it's like watching grass grow, of course my opinion.


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## JNXT 7707

davidone said:


> I don't dislike DCC but at my age I don't feel like messing with cv's, speed matching, etc. I also don't do operations, it's like watching grass grow, of course my opinion.


I'm with you - just don't feel like messing with it. Not my thing, you might say. And strangely enough I don't feel deprived. 
Perhaps if I was just now starting out from scratch I might look at it differently? :dunno:
Not an "ops" guy either - I have the most enjoyment sitting back and watching my trains move through the layout.


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## davidone

JNXT 7707 said:


> I'm with you - just don't feel like messing with it. Not my thing, you might say. And strangely enough I don't feel deprived.
> Perhaps if I was just now starting out from scratch I might look at it differently? :dunno:
> Not an "ops" guy either - I have the most enjoyment sitting back and watching my trains move through the layout.


I'm with you,

Dave


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## shaygetz

It was a budget decision for me...I was in a club with DCC and it was fine to convert locos to run o that layout. But when that ran its course, I felt it was not worth my while to install such a system on my small layouts, so I pulled the chips, jumped the plugs for a future reactivation, and haven't looked back. That was 10 years ago...


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## Old_Hobo

DC here.......afraid that if I go over to the other side, it would cost me too much to convert or replace everything.....I have dozens and dozens of locos.....having fun with DC.....


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## michael cuneo

It would cost a fortune to convert my fleet over 18+ most are pre 1990,i do have some newer engines. I really don't need the noise but enjoy the clickety clack as they run around.
Mike


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## RUSTY Cuda

Dad's stuff is all DC, it's the only thing I ever worked with & am enjoying it all again, with the massive fleet He gave me it's not something I want to mess with.
DC is fine for me, I'm more into the tinkering & building anyway, as with the other guys, if I was just starting out with nothing it might be different, for now I just need to find a bigger room, so I can do the collection justice !


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## Southern

My started as DC. With all of the loco's that I have there was no way that I could have afforded the change them all to DCC. I did go DCC, but I can switch back to DC anytime I like with the flip of two switches. When the layout was DC only I could run four trains on track. I sill love to get the old DC trains out and run them


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## MtRR75

DC for me, too. I started with a DC train set for the kids. Later, I inherited a DC layout -- just track and some wiring -- no scenery or structures. It was in pretty bad shape, but I have enjoyed renovating and rewiring it.

Why DC? I enjoy routing several trains thorough a layout simultaneously using all those block and turnout switches. I know it is not prototypical, but I like the challenge.

Why not DCC -- Cost, mainly. Also, many of the locos that I have collected are not even DCC ready.


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## Mister Bill

I am on the fence. I have 6 DC and gradually acquired 3 DCC. I had to re-do a lot of track for DCC and a 2-10-2 steam engine.

DC is more reliable and bomb-proof. DCC is more realistic. Sometimes the noise drives me nuts. Everything is adjustable if you have a PHD in electronics. 

I am 70 and live in a small town with no one to help.

Sometimes I just like to see my Rivarossi go.

Bill


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## psever

*DC and loving it*

At 69 I enjoy keeping it simple. I'm an old dog and don't feel the need to learn new tricks.I began building my layout four years ago when I retired. Prior to retiring I hadn't been involved in railroading for over 35 years. Once I had the time to dedicate myself to planning my layout I realized after picking up the latest copy of MR that DCC was the way to go. But converting the six brass steam engines I had would be no quick fix and my layout has a 1920's theme. Since my layout is room size, 16' X 12', and I wanted at least 38 inch radius curves to accommodate my 80' Pullman cars, I went with DC. I replaced four of my engines with can motors and with the new MRC 760 power packs I can get them to crawl at a scale 15 mph all the way around my layout. The momentum and brake control compare favorably to any DCC steam engine. As for sound, KATO'S new Sound Box will fill the void for DC operator's. They now only have a diesel sound card but next month they're coming out with a FEF/3 and GS-4 sound card. And if anyone wants to come over and operate I only have room for one other person, so I'll be the brakeman and/or switchman.


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## Cycleops

'Chacon a son gout' as they say but for me DCC just adds so much more, especially the sounds. You don't really a degree in electronics just a bit of nouse.

Kato's sound box is great but it's not coming from the loco.


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## ggnlars

Up to now cost has been the main barrier. I repair and install all types of HO engines. 

Circuit boards are costly and are not very robust.

There are a number of issues that I see with DCC that are barriers that are big road blocks for me. 

With the technology of the day, other options are coming on the scene that may minimize some of these issues. However, adding something will always add cost so that barrier will always be there.

I share the seventy summers experience with a number of others. DCC is really no more difficult than DC. You just need different tools to deal with it.


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## DonR

I'm 85 and still hate Windows, loved MSDOS. But you can't check
the forum with DOS.

About the same with trains. I had a very complex N scale DC
layout. I understand electricity, relays and circuits and enjoy
building the panels to control them.

But, when my brother introduced me to DCC, I knew the DC jig
was up. DCC is much simpler to install and to operate than
DC ever was. And you can do things you cannot do with DC. Run 2 trains,
one clockwise, one counter clockwise on the same single
track main (with passing sidings). The only operating switches
you throw, are for turnouts, no block switching between power
packs. No jumble of wires under the table either.

Just as you don't need an engineers degree to get on line or
change the channel on a TV set, running a DCC layout with
multiple locos is as simple as using the TV remote control.
Push a button for the loco you want. Raise the speed control.
It's off and will continue until you stop it. Meanwhile you
can do a complex switching operation, another loco back and forth around
the yard with no interruption to the first train's running.

You can upgrade any HO or N loco that has a motor that draws
less than .5 amp stalled for 20.00 to 30.00. Regardless of
make, they are quite standardized. You would maybe solder
5 wires and you are now in 2015. Some decoders just
plug in. They are tiny things also. Not a problem finding 
room. Do it, one at a time, and power your layout through
a DPDT switch so you can run EITHER DC or DCC until your
layout is completely converted.

If I can do it with my shaky hands, you young whippersnappers can also.

Just like those radio preachers, I'm running a revival here.

Don


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## PhillipL

I am a DC fan. I do software testing for a living, the last thing I want to do is to deal with programming a locomotive on my free time. I also have a limited budget for my hobby and to be honest, I love just taking an engine out of the box, placing it on the tracks and running it (simple and fun!).


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## JNXT 7707

DonR said:


> Just like those radio preachers, I'm running a revival here.
> 
> Don


Don, the one thing I have learned for sure about DCC is that there is no way to convince a convert to it that DC is still fun :laugh:

I'm happy for all you DCC preachers, you've got the religion and are living it! 

Seriously you do raise some good points, and some viable alternatives to do BOTH. But I'm sticking back here on the back pew with my DC hobos. I don't have any complex DC wiring blocks. No need to run multiple locos on one track except with two-unit lashups - which works just fine. 

Even if you did get me to make the altar call, my budget is super-tight and I plain don't have the incentive to put any portion of $$ toward a DCC conversion project. 

But carry on - there are plenty more DC souls to save


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## riogrande

There is a topic over at MR. I wonder if some post things like this because they feel like they need to be validated or something. In the end, what does it matter. If you like doing something just do it. You don't really need a validation; it's not like AAA.

You do what makes sense for you. If you have a simple loop of track and a couple engines, it probably doesn't make any sense to go with digital control, but OTOH, if you have a larger layout and run a bunch of trains, it may makes sense - you decide.


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## JNXT 7707

riogrande said:


> There is a topic over at MR. I wonder if some post things like this because they feel like they need to be validated or something. In the end, what does it matter. If you like doing something just do it. You don't really need a validation; it's not like AAA.
> 
> You do what makes sense for you. If you have a simple loop of track and a couple engines, it probably doesn't make any sense to go with digital control, but OTOH, if you have a larger layout and run a bunch of trains, it may makes sense - you decide.


I wonder why DCC afficianados feel compelled to continually validate their choice? Hey it's OK, it's your railroad, if you like DCC, do it! :laugh:

Honestly, one gets the feeling after spending time on a lot of model railroad forums that the hobby must revolve around DCC or you just aren't with it. So it's nice to hear a few positive things about DC every once in a while, you know?


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## mopac

I wonder why DCC afficianados feel compelled to continually validate their choice?

Same can be said for DC operators. Just do what fits for you.


Hey JNXT, I was born in Charleston many years ago. Used to have many relatives living there, but sadly they have passed away. My parents first house was in what they called
chemical city. Holiday Inn sits where their house was. Many of my relatives lived along 
rt 60. I64 has turned it into a ghost strip now. They lived in Hurican (sp) and some
across the bridge in Nitro.


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## riogrande

JNXT 7707 said:


> I wonder why DCC afficianados feel compelled to continually validate their choice? Hey it's OK, it's your railroad, if you like DCC, do it! :laugh:
> 
> Honestly, one gets the feeling after spending time on a lot of model railroad forums that the hobby must revolve around DCC or you just aren't with it. So it's nice to hear a few positive things about DC every once in a while, you know?


Just for the record, I don't have either a DC or a DCC system hooked up to my layout, which is under construction, as Han Solo said in Star Wars - laugh it up fur ball! 

I've been reading these DC/DCC war topics in forums for the past several years so it does seem that folks, no matter what side they are on seem to feel they have to start a topic and rally the troops. It seems the trend of late is that the DC folks seem to feel in the minority, and ask hey, is there any body out there (pink floyd) ... is there anybody ... out there. I prefer not to participate in either of the popcorn DC or DCC, which is better or which is more popular topics. Don't see them as constructive, rather they seem to have the opposite effect - almost every such a topic is started, they seem to be bait to a few of the folks on the other side, yet ... folks still keep posting them.


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## mopac

Everybody wants to feel validated and belong to a group of like people.


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## DonR

I am probably one of the strongest advocates for DCC.

However, like so many of us long time modellers, I toiled
away in the awesome circuitry of DC for years. So, I, and
I just imagine a lot of other former DC guys, know that
you DC guys must have good electrical talents and the patience
to make things work. You do have our admiration for
sticking with it. I guess that could mean that we DCCers wimped
out, because DCC is so much simpler and doesn't tax
the brain or the patience. Sorry, I just had to get in
that last plug.

Don


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## Old_Hobo

"plug"...that was a good one!


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## Old_Hobo

mopac said:


> I was born in Charleston many years ago


So, you were into electric trains before electricity? :laugh:


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## riogrande

Here is how I feel. People should do what makes sense to them and not necessarily need a social club to prop them up one way or the other. If you need help, then forums are of course a good place to get it.

To me, generally is seems sensible if you have a small layout, such as a loop of track or a pair of loops, it probably makes the most sense to run just DCC with a few electrical blocks - and of course a few engines. Or if you only run a couple engines on a layout at a time.

One thing I have found is that if there are a lot of blocks, to me it can be confusing to control the trains, so to me that is where DC gets a little harder to use to control multiple trains. Like I said, I don't have any control system hooked up to the layout I am building.


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## JNXT 7707

mopac said:


> Hey JNXT, I was born in Charleston many years ago. Used to have many relatives living there, but sadly they have passed away. My parents first house was in what they called
> chemical city. Holiday Inn sits where their house was. Many of my relatives lived along
> rt 60. I64 has turned it into a ghost strip now. They lived in Hurican (sp) and some
> across the bridge in Nitro.


Hey Mopac - by Chemical City I'd say you were talking South Charleston area? It's nowhere near the intensity it was 'back in the day' now as you know. But you can still glimpse how it used to be on Rt. 60, looking at the remnants of the many motels that lined the highway from Charleston to St. Albans and beyond. Do you remember the "El Rancho Inn"?


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## davidone

Guys I started this thread because i run only DC and was wondering if I was the only one running DC because many in my area do not. I have no issue with DCC but I don't like people telling me I am doing something wrong. 

I don't need validation on anything I do and I resent the implication. Why can't we discuss this without the bile of which way is better.


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## riogrande

David, follow this link to the Model Railroader Magazine forums topic of the same name and you'll get lots of warm fuzzies. There are lots of old school people still kicking you will see.

And if it's of any comfort, many people also feel the same way as you do, wonder why there are so many contrarians out there! Some comment the same way in that topic tho bile is yuck, nasty stuff!

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/247768.aspx


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## JNXT 7707

riogrande said:


> ....It seems the trend of late is that the DC folks seem to feel in the minority, and ask hey, is there any body out there (pink floyd) ... is there anybody ... out there....QUOTE]
> 
> That describes it perfectly in a nutshell to me, riogrande. There are times I have thought "am I the last one running DC?"
> 
> Ironically I do recognize the merits of DCC, I don't mean to sound like I am bashing it. I have to say though, I was happy to see a few others stand up and say "Hello, my name is Harry and I run DC"
> 
> Loved the Star Wars 'furball' line. Classic :appl:


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## Old_Hobo

riogrande said:


> To me, generally is seems sensible if you have a small layout, such as a loop of track or a pair of loops, it probably makes the most sense to run just DCC with a few electrical blocks - and of course a few engines


I suspect you meant to say DC...not DCC.....?


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## riogrande

Yes, brain fart! I mean DC for smaller layouts with just a loop or double loop of track! Doh!


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## Rusty

I am using DC big transformers to run DCC engines cause it has stronger motor and nice looking locomotives.


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## 400E Blue Comet

I run DC because I don't have all the DCC tech.


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## Southern

Six locomotives all DC


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## Cycleops

riogrande said:


> I've been reading these DC/DCC war topics in forums for the past several years so it does seem that folks, no matter what side they are on seem to feel they have to start a topic and rally the troops. It seems the trend of late is that the DC folks seem to feel in the minority, and ask hey, is there any body out there (pink floyd) ... is there anybody ... out there.


I have it on good authority that at least one member of Pink Floyd had a DCC layout.


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## wingnut163

had DC since 1950. but 5 years ago a flood did a lot of damage to my loco fleet. so i took the plunge to DCC. found it easier. then i never got back4 engines that i was having changed over. so i am slowly cleaning and getting the DC's i have left to run and i am converting them to DCC. but that dont mean every one can change, or even want to. i'm 74 and not real good at understanding how to change things, (speed ETC.) but i can run4/5 trains at once with only three cabs. and thats good for me.

DC or DCC, its all about YOUR RR and fun.


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## SBRacing

Im 24 and been into model trains ever sents I can remember. I'm current rebuilding my layout and will still be running DC. I just have way too many locos to transfer to DCC. If I were to make the change I would only convert about 7 of my loco just because all the other were cheap tyco or bachmann.


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## riogrande

Cycleops said:


> I have it on good authority that at least one member of Pink Floyd had a DCC layout.


Well, I've been a Pink Floyd fan since the early 1970's but I never knew any of them were into trains! Now I think I'll go down to the basement and put on an Animals CD


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## Cycleops

Sorry riogrande I was just pulling your plonker.


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## riogrande

Cycleops said:


> Sorry riogrande I was just pulling your plonker.


My wife drink plonk if that helps, but she might pull back if you pull her plonk or plonker. Just sayin!


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## Chet

I use DC only. I started my layout over 25 years ago and it was build primarily as a switching layout. It does occupy a fairly large space, but I am a lone operator and really very seldom need to run more than one locomotive at a time. This is usually a helper locomotive to get long trains up a grade. 

I have operated of large home and club layouts while visiting other model railroaders in another state. DCC was a lot of fun. In one club, we had over 20 locomotives running at one time, with two dispatchers giving the marching orders. They had fully operating signals also which operators had to keep a watch for. 

DCC is necessary for an operation such as this. Sound is another thing. With one or two locomotives operating, I guess it's alright, but with a dozen or more running at one time, I found it to get annoying. 

I do have a couple of locomotives that have been converted to DCC which I take with me on my visits to other model railroaders. These happen to be large articulated locomotives which are too long for my turntables. A challenger really doesn't make a good locomotive for local switching. 

At one time I did toy with the idea of DCC but after a lot of thought, I realized that I didn't NEED it. Like I mentioned, I very seldom run more than one train at a time. There's also the expense of a DCC system and then the time and money to convert over 30 locomotives. Most of my locomotives are older Atlas Alco units and in order to put in a decoder, let alone a speaker, I would have to remove a large part of the weight to fit them in the shell. 

Here's a video of a DDC with sound running on my DC layout. My son picked it up somewhere and gave it to me for a birthday present. He doesn't know the first thing about model railroads. I appreciated the gift. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7zO8kdjGGA

My DC system works great for what I personally need on my layout. 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## tr1

*majority wins*

I have not converted yet,though,whenI do go DCC,I'm going to keep my old analog(dc)
power packs, just in case. A single pull double throw toggle is wired for the selection of
engines on the layout The majority usually wins. I'll just to have to make a wider shelf
eo handle the additional electrical equipment.


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## riogrande

Thats what I did. I still have my old Star Tec Hogger DC power pack - it's an old analog DC power pack with a coiled throttle that plugs into the base station with a phone style jack - you could run cables to points along a fascia and use it like a walk around but it's a DC throttle.


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## Mr. SP

*DC*

It's plain ol' DC for my railroad. I usw two MRC Throttlepack's for power.
I have over three hundred locomotives so the cost of going DCC is prohibitive.


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## MtRR75

Mr. SP said:


> It's plain ol' DC for my railroad. I usw two MRC Throttlepack's for power.
> I have over three hundred locomotives so the cost of going DCC is prohibitive.


From my perspective the cost of OWNING over three hundred locomotives is prohibitive.


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## Joefrumjersey

I have been running DCC since.....maybe 2005 or so, and enjoy the advantages of consisting and individual control. Recently, I ripped up my old layout, an started a rebuild, using one of the locos that never had a decoder installed, and an old MRC DC Transformer. 
I'm having fun putting this U23B through the paces. 

Once I get the benchwork set up, and some track down permanently, it will be back to DCC, but for now....


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## MacDaddy55

*DC Baby!!*

David you are not alone in this world for I too am a DC dude!! Now I like Marvel better than DC because all the Chicks in their Comic are anatomically incorrect if you know what I mean:laugh::laugh:...wait we' talking trains right.... We have looked into DCC and it looks and sounds great...but there's sooo many DC loco's out there that need our love that we just don't have the heart to jump in feet first. Gotta love breaking down and working on an Atlas or Athearn diesel or AHM/Rivarossi Steamer....so yeah.."My name is Matt, and I run DC'!!:thumbsup:


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## davidone

I love DCC locos with sound but I prefer to run them on DC. Crazy? Maybe but I am having fun. But with my condition and eyesight adding DCC to my DC only engines is not going to happen. The expense keeps me from doing it also. 

Btw the Marvel girls are just right.


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## Cycleops

MacDaddy55 said:


> David you are not alone in this world for I too am a DC dude!! Now I like Marvel better than DC because all the Chicks in their Comic are anatomically incorrect if you know what I mean:laugh::laugh:...wait we' talking trains right...:ee


That's a good analagy, so DCC is basically DC with t*ts on!


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## Southern

riogrande said:


> ................ I'll go down to the basement and put on an Animals CD


Good idea!


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## SBRacing

Southern said:


> Good idea!


Eh more of a Kinks fan.


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## Cycleops

Had no idea there were so many 60s/70s British music fans over there!


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## quark51

I run dc, I have a few locos with dcc, most of my locos are either dcc ready or straight dc. As for locomotives with sound, I have two locos with sound, after a few minutes I turn the sound down on my Athearn Big Boy and Challenger because the sound gets annoying after awhile.


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## psever

*DC and loving it*

My layout is a simple one level 12x16 and I can easily get to any section with ease. I can see that if you had a large layout that DCC is a big advantage. I seldom have visitors but when I do I am the switchman. Modeling Southern Pacific in the 1920's, diesel is not an option and can't come to drill holes in my brass tenders for sound. I'm waiting for the KATO Soundbox which is coming out with a steam card. Although the sound doesn't come directly from the locomotive my layout is small enough that hopefully that won't matter.


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## Cycleops

Well psever if I had a 12 x 16 layout I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven! Strange how people's idea of large and small layouts vary across the world.


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## CTValleyRR

psever said:


> My layout is a simple one level 12x16 and I can easily get to any section with ease. I can see that if you had a large layout that DCC is a big advantage. I seldom have visitors but when I do I am the switchman. Modeling Southern Pacific in the 1920's, diesel is not an option and can't come to drill holes in my brass tenders for sound. I'm waiting for the KATO Soundbox which is coming out with a steam card. Although the sound doesn't come directly from the locomotive my layout is small enough that hopefully that won't matter.


The big benefit you would see from DCC in your case is the ability to have more than one loco operating concurrently without having them all running at the same speed, and the ability to park a loco anywhere, without having to isolate it from track power to keep it from moving.

Pointing this out not to convince you to switch, but for the benefit of newcomers who may be wondering if DCC is worth it. FWIW, my layout is a comparable size to yours, and I converted to DCC long ago.


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## DonR

Us DCC guys are as tenacious as old time preachers...we
want to save the flock.

But, unlike in the preachers sermon, there is no sin to
run DC...and converting to DCC won't get you a ticket
to heaven.

But there are some factors that are often overlooked by
the DC guys that may make DCC more interesting to them
when they learn about them.

First, you can keep all of your DC locos and still enjoy
the benefits of DCC by using a simple DPDT switch that
will, with one flip, make your layout friendly to DCC locos.
One side of the switch is your DC power system, the other
side is the DCC controller. It's like having your cake and
eating it too. Just make sure your DC locos are on a
track with no power when running DCC.

Another factor is that size does not matter in the
DC vs DCC decision. You can have a small 4 X 8 HO
layout with a single track mainline, a passing siding or two
and you can run 2 trains at the same time IN OPPOSITE
DIRECTIONS. Or, you can have a switcher working a yard
while another train circles the layout.

Some have said they don't need DCC because they are
a solo operator. Any time I have an operating session, it's just me. Visitors
to my layout are few and far between, yet I will likely have
two rains running. I do have a hand held controller in addition
to the main controller, but I did the same operations for
quite a while before I added the hand held. 

Then there's the lights. Loco headlight. Lighted cars or
caboose. They dim when you slow, they go out when you
stop. Doesn't sound like much but it sure isn't up to proto
standards. The light intensity does not vary. A DCC track
is always live.

Now, the choir will sing...ON THE ATCHISON, TOPEKA AND SANTA FE.
(my layouts theme song).

Don


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## Chet

DonR said:


> Us DCC guys are as tenacious as old time preachers...we
> want to save the flock.
> 
> But, unlike in the preachers sermon, there is no sin to
> run DC...and converting to DCC won't get you a ticket
> to heaven.
> 
> But there are some factors that are often overlooked by
> the DC guys that may make DCC more interesting to them
> when they learn about them.
> 
> First, you can keep all of your DC locos and still enjoy
> the benefits of DCC by using a simple DPDT switch that
> will, with one flip, make your layout friendly to DCC locos.
> One side of the switch is your DC power system, the other
> side is the DCC controller. It's like having your cake and
> eating it too. Just make sure your DC locos are on a
> track with no power when running DCC.
> 
> Another factor is that size does not matter in the
> DC vs DCC decision. You can have a small 4 X 8 HO
> layout with a single track mainline, a passing siding or two
> and you can run 2 trains at the same time IN OPPOSITE
> DIRECTIONS. Or, you can have a switcher working a yard
> while another train circles the layout.
> 
> Some have said they don't need DCC because they are
> a solo operator. Any time I have an operating session, it's just me. Visitors
> to my layout are few and far between, yet I will likely have
> two rains running. I do have a hand held controller in addition
> to the main controller, but I did the same operations for
> quite a while before I added the hand held.
> 
> Then there's the lights. Loco headlight. Lighted cars or
> caboose. They dim when you slow, they go out when you
> stop. Doesn't sound like much but it sure isn't up to proto
> standards. The light intensity does not vary. A DCC track
> is always live.
> 
> Now, the choir will sing...ON THE ATCHISON, TOPEKA AND SANTA FE.
> (my layouts theme song).
> 
> Don


I'll stick with my DC. Why try to fix something that ain't broke. It works just fine for me as a solo operator for the type of layout I have, a switching layout. I can run DCC locomotives with no problems. I find that after a while, the sound becomes annoying. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR-tYl9fd9s&feature=youtu.be


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## Cycleops

Love your analogy Don, but it's not quite like having your cake and eating it running both, more like having a nice fresh cake and having the option of a rather old mouldy one!


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## JNXT 7707

Lovely sermon, Pastor Don  
Looks like the choir liked it! Seems like the congregation is still grumbling though. A stubborn lot, we are. 
All the points you made sound wonderful...yet not wonderful _enough_ to go to the time and $$$ to accomplish the change. Time and $$$ are valuable commodities on my railroad, plus the desire to do something. I'm counting 3 strikes!
But the choir does sound heavenly....


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## Chet

JNXT 7707 said:


> Lovely sermon, Pastor Don
> Looks like the choir liked it! Seems like the congregation is still grumbling though. A stubborn lot, we are.
> All the points you made sound wonderful...yet not wonderful _enough_ to go to the time and $$$ to accomplish the change. Time and $$$ are valuable commodities on my railroad, plus the desire to do something. I'm counting 3 strikes!
> But the choir does sound heavenly....


Well said :appl: Dcc is something that I have no need for.


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## CTValleyRR

Let's rewind a couple of pages here. Neither I nor anyone else is trying to convince folks who want to run DC only to convert, or that DCC is necessary for all new layouts, or that if you don't use it, you are somehow less of a model railroader (in fact, you're probably MORE of one, because you have a tolerance for complexity that exceeds mine by a fair bit).

My only concern (and, it sounds like Don, Cycleops, and others, although I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth) is to make sure that newcomers don't get the mistaken impression that DCC is too expensive or too complicated for a beginner, or only appropriate for large, room-filling layouts.


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## Cycleops

JNXT 7707 said:


> Lovely sermon, Pastor Don
> But the choir does sound heavenly....


Just make sure you try it before the real heavenly choir sings and you pass over to the other side!


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## Chet

I have operated on an immense club layout with as many as 20 trains operating at the same time, with 2 dispatchers giving train orders. Without DCC this would have been impossible. 

My layout was built as a switching layout and I run one locomotive at a time on a point to point layout. At my age, I find that it is very hard to multitask and operate more than one at a time while concentrating on switching movements. I have no need for DCC in my particular case. 

If I would have used the space I have for a milti track main line with continuous running, I probably would have gone DCC years ago.


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## Mr.Buchholz

I love DC, and it's all I run. Simple, but effective, and less problematic if something goes wrong. The sound of the metal wheels running down the tracks is pretty cool to begin with. Besides, I usually have a radio on in the background so I can listed to classic rock while busy on the layout.

DC ALL THE WAY!

-J.


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## Cycleops

Mr.Buchholz said:


> I love DC, and it's all I run. Simple, but effective, and less problematic if something goes wrong. The sound of the metal wheels running down the tracks is pretty cool to begin with.
> 
> DC ALL THE WAY!
> 
> -J.


Simple yes, but there's so much more you can enjoy with DCC. If you don't try you'll never experience it. You still get the clickety clack of metal on metal!


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## higgsbosonman

DCC gives me no enjoyment whatsoever. The whole time I'm running a train on our layout in the back of my mind I'm thinking "How long until this breaks?"

For five or so years, the club's staging yards never worked because the booster for them had died. a few hundred bucks later, our layout worked okay, until a month passed and another box failed. repeat this again, and we're still only running 75% of the layout with quite a bit of money dropped on repairs. When we finally got rid of our old Lenz system, we were down to one control box, three boosters that didn't cooperate with each other, and three sorta working throttles.

Our new digitrax system started at $1000. One command center, one booster, two IR links, a few throttle panels, and four throttles. We've had to drop six hundred dollars into it to upgrade and repair it in the past two months because of idiots overloading and blowing stuff up. We've got two DCC circuit breakers to combat this, but we couldn't afford enough; only the yards are getting them for now.

All of this because someone wants an engine that can blow it's horn, or because nobody wanted a dispatcher (which the layout has the panels and wiring for, it was just never finished). It's not even that great, because the club only has 1 sound equipped locomotive and we only really do continuous running because nobody wants to do operating sessions. Nobody brings in their own equipment, either, except for one guy who doubles the club's roster (not that that's a problem).

It's lunacy, honestly. It's not fun to me, it's just a chore. But if I stop, nobody can take my place and the layout will come to a permanent grinding halt, not it's usual bi-monthly ones.

I know it's different on other layouts, but I'm just disillusioned, bitter and annoyed. All my personal stuff is staying DC because of this.


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## psever

*DC and Sound*

The only thing I found lacking was sound and I found it in Kato's Soundbox. And some simple speakers, as in surround sound strategically located, makes it seem as though it's coming from the engine itself. I would switch over to DCC if my layout was larger and I had space for more than one operator. If anyone does comes over to operate I serve as the brakeman.


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## PhillipL

I run DC without any DCC. I have a relatively small layout and the cost of locomotives such as Walthers Mainline with DCC installed is beyond budget. I also have five thumbs on each hand so installing separately purchased decoders is not going to happen.


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## PanelDeland

I'm just getting started in the hobby so I may not be knowledgeable enough to know but my thought is this. I will be building a 5X12 or so layout. I want to be able to run locos on the perimeter track with little or no supervision. I'm thinking of wiring it to the DPDT switch so I can run it either dc or dcc. The inner(working) areas will be dcc. I'm watching and researching prices and such and I see a lot of reasonably priced dc locos, they need love and I can afford to love a few more of them than dcc ones. I'm also seeing that a lot of the new locos are dcc with dc able. I see no reason why I can't run the dc locos on the perimeter and dcc on the inner, get enjoyment from both and be able to afford quite easily to own a few dc locos that others find unworthy. I've even come up with the idea of using Black couplers for dc and silver/cast for dcc. I'm looking at this as the best of both worlds since it will leave me the option. So I don't see anything wrong with either system and I hope my plan is reasonable.


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## Chatelet

I use a conventional 12v DC supply (old time CB radio power supply)
with a very basic transistor controller (I built it myself).
Mostly because it's more simple for me. And I only build small layouts.


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## Old_Hobo

PanelDeland said:


> I don't see anything wrong with either system


Of course there is nothing wrong with either DC or DCC....it's purely a matter of preference....


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## DonR

PanelDeland said:


> I'm just getting started in the hobby so I may not be knowledgeable enough to know but my thought is this. I will be building a 5X12 or so layout. I want to be able to run locos on the perimeter track with little or no supervision. I'm thinking of wiring it to the DPDT switch so I can run it either dc or dcc. The inner(working) areas will be dcc. I'm watching and researching prices and such and I see a lot of reasonably priced dc locos, they need love and I can afford to love a few more of them than dcc ones. I'm also seeing that a lot of the new locos are dcc with dc able. I see no reason why I can't run the dc locos on the perimeter and dcc on the inner, get enjoyment from both and be able to afford quite easily to own a few dc locos that others find unworthy. I've even come up with the idea of using Black couplers for dc and silver/cast for dcc. I'm looking at this as the best of both worlds since it will leave me the option. So I don't see anything wrong with either system and I hope my plan is reasonable.


You will want to set up some sort of control that will prevent a loco from
crossing over from the DC track to the modified AC DCC track. You could
have damage to the power equipment.

Don


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## higgsbosonman

PanelDeland, the best solution to what DonR is warning you of would be to have a section of dead track longer than your longest locomotive between DC and DCC. When running both systems, make sure the track is dead, and not connected to either system. That way, should the inevitable happen, your runaway engine will simply hit dead track (or coast onto the other section) and not cause a short. If an engine rolls from DC onto DCC, you'll feed 16V DC into the AC signal of the DCC system through the electrical pickups on the engine, and this could burn it out.


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## Mr.Buchholz

Cycleops said:


> Simple yes, but there's so much more you can enjoy with DCC. If you don't try you'll never experience it. You still get the clickety clack of metal on metal!


Meh. DCC is expensive, and my railroad with DC already brings me a lot of happiness. It might be simple, but it makes me smile, and that's all that matters. 

-J.


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## FRED On Board

I'll chime in here just in case someone is keeping score of MTF members in one category or another.

I have great respect for prototypical operations which needless to say is greatly enhanced by DCC but I'm willing to compromise in favor of a more "hands-on" effort in control that is necessary with multi-block DC control...With nearly 20 deisel locos in freight operation and half of them powered, DCC would be an investment I'm not willing or able to make...I typically run 2 trains in 4 DC blocks as single operator and the toggle switches for turnouts and loco direction with separate throttles assigned to each block makes for a busy operation...But it remains fun...In the seventh decade of life, staying alert day-to-day is an important quality of mental awareness and DC control in my model RR avocation helps to insure that in the present and hopefully for the future.


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## bruette

DCC is fascinating and fun!

On the other hand with my small temporary HO and N scale layouts DCC is more then I needed. I have no regrets about buying the 2 DCC systems I have. I enjoy them!

There is nothing wrong with using DC I still have a DC transformer set up to switch over to run some of my old HO trains.

Legacy, TMCC, DCS, AC, DC, DCC or whatever else you decide to use. If you are having fun with your trains you have a good system.


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## gunrunnerjohn

bruette said:


> Legacy, TMCC, DCS, AC, DC, DCC or whatever else you decide to use. If you are having fun with your trains you have a good system.


Spot on! :appl:


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## davidone

I have hooked up the MTH dcs system for my MTH engines and I have to say it is one impressive command system. But I also can run any DCC engine by use of a toggle switch to run with my DCC system.

Right now I'm running all MTH engines because I like their sound, smoke and control. The dcs system enhances is very intuitive with mostly one button on most issues you address. To be honest I like it better then DCC .

The limitations of only running MTH engines is a issue. Although you can run conventional DC with the dcs unit, But I like it. 

Buy what you like and can afford and most of all, have fun.


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## CTValleyRR

MTH's DCS system is proprietary, and from what I understand, does not play nice with DCC systems that use the NMRA protocols.


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## CTValleyRR

There is nothing wrong with sticking with DC, or setting up a new layout with it. 

The only "bad" reason to stay with DC is the cost argument. Starter sets really aren't that expensive, and the cost / time requirement to convert a large loco fleet is manageable if it's sufficiently spread out. If you really want to go DCC, don't let cost scare you off.


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## Cycleops

I suspect if we held a poll about who has converted to DCC and who hasn't and never will, related to age, it would show the over sixties would be overwhelmingly in the latter camp. Not hard to figure as they perceive the cost of converting probably an extensive layout built up over a long period of time would be perceived as prohibitive. But as CTVRR says spread over time is managable. Maybe the cost of four new locos. As for me the extra enjoyment I get from DCC is well worth it and just adds so much to the hobby.


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## gunrunnerjohn

CTValleyRR said:


> MTH's DCS system is proprietary, and from what I understand, does not play nice with DCC systems that use the NMRA protocols.


Since DCC uses the track to transmit the data in the power stream, I would imagine that would drive the DCS signal nuts, I'd be surprised if they worked together.


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## Lizard Road

I run HO dc outside in the garden train, I run dcc inside I like the sound of the engine.


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## Chet

Cycleops said:


> I suspect if we held a poll about who has converted to DCC and who hasn't and never will, related to age, it would show the over sixties would be overwhelmingly in the latter camp. Not hard to figure as they perceive the cost of converting probably an extensive layout built up over a long period of time would be perceived as prohibitive. But as CTVRR says spread over time is managable. Maybe the cost of four new locos. As for me the extra enjoyment I get from DCC is well worth it and just adds so much to the hobby.


I think you have a very good point here. For the most part, all of my track is installed, starting on the layout over 25 years ago. Most of the scenery has also been at least started, if not complete in most areas. My locomotive fleet, mostly early Atlas Alcos which have all been custom painted for my freelance railroad. I do have some that are for other railroads that I connect to and probably have close to 40 locomotives. The time required to convert this many locomotives would be a turn off for me. The early Atlas units have almost no room under the shell and the weights would have to be cut down in order to fit a decoder and speaker. There's also the expense of the decoders. 

For a layout the size of mine I would also have to purchase booster in addition to a DCC system. I also wouldn't want to cut corners and get a cheap system. That's just the way I am. 

The dollars are mounting up. 

Lastly, I am a lone operator and my layout is built mainly for switching and I very seldom if ever need to run more than one locomotive at a time. 

I have a very good friend who lives out of state that I visit on a pretty regular basis who has a huge home layout. I also go to operating sessions at the model railroad club he is a member of. In some operating sessions we have had over 20 trains all running at the same time under the watchful eye of two dispatchers. Without DCC this type of operation would be almost impossible without DCC. My friend is also a DCC nut. He loves it, but even he admitted for an operation like mine, it is unnecessary. 

I look at converting to DCC as a waste of time and money.


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## MacDaddy55

*Yeah Baby!!*



Cycleops said:


> That's a good analagy, so DCC is basically DC with t*ts on!


HAHAHAHA!!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Joefrumjersey

Chet said:


> I think you have a very good point here. For the most part, all of my track is installed, starting on the layout over 25 years ago. Most of the scenery has also been at least started, if not complete in most areas. My locomotive fleet, mostly early Atlas Alcos which have all been custom painted for my freelance railroad. I do have some that are for other railroads that I connect to and probably have close to 40 locomotives. The time required to convert this many locomotives would be a turn off for me. The early Atlas units have almost no room under the shell and the weights would have to be cut down in order to fit a decoder and speaker. There's also the expense of the decoders.
> 
> For a layout the size of mine I would also have to purchase booster in addition to a DCC system. I also wouldn't want to cut corners and get a cheap system. That's just the way I am.
> 
> The dollars are mounting up.
> 
> Lastly, I am a lone operator and my layout is built mainly for switching and I very seldom if ever need to run more than one locomotive at a time.
> 
> I look at converting to DCC as a waste of time and money.


Chet: 

At the risk of cranking some people up, I really don't see a benefit in converting a DC layout that you, (or anyone else), is happy with. :dunno:

I started with DCC about 10 years ago, when I started a new layout. It saved me all the aggravation of wiring. I have migrated to sound after initially resisting it, and really love DCC. But had I not dismantled my old DC layout, I would still be DC exclusively.

Right now, I have about thirty decoders waiting for the patience I need to install them, and thirty locos that I would otherwise use, sitting in boxes waiting their turn at an upgrade.


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## Chet

Thanks for the pleasant reply. 

If, and I say if there were other people in my area that would be interested in operating with me I might consider DCC. but I am in a rural area and there are no other modelers in my area. As the layout now sits, I can keep two yard operators busy and a local peddler freight busy. I guess me, myself and I could cover all three jobs. 

For me a normal operation session would consist of bring a train in from hidden staging into one of the two yards, break the train down and make up a local freight. The local freight would service rail customers along the main line. I have 27 different customers on my layout. After the local freight has made its drops and pick ups, it would return to one of the two yards and any outbound freight would be made into a train which would head outbound into hidden staging tracks. 

I can keep myself busy for hours switching the different industries. All this with DC. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## JNXT 7707

Cycleops said:


> I suspect if we held a poll about who has converted to DCC and who hasn't and never will, related to age, it would show the over sixties would be overwhelmingly in the latter camp. Not hard to figure as they perceive the cost of converting probably an extensive layout built up over a long period of time would be perceived as prohibitive. But as CTVRR says spread over time is managable. Maybe the cost of four new locos. As for me the extra enjoyment I get from DCC is well worth it and just adds so much to the hobby.


pretty good analysis:thumbsup:
I'm almost there, at 59 this month! Over 100 locos, all DC. Enjoy running them one at a time :laugh:
Objectively the DCC cheerleaders have the winning argument, except maybe the most important - which is the _desire_ to invest the time and money....even if it is possible to be 'managed'. I have a long list of projects that I'm chomping at the bit to get to. All require $$ too. Maybe DCC in the next lifetime?


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## Joefrumjersey

JNXT 7707 said:


> pretty good analysis:thumbsup:
> I'm almost there, at 59 this month! Over 100 locos, all DC. Enjoy running them one at a time :laugh:
> Objectively the DCC cheerleaders have the winning argument, except maybe the most important - which is the _desire_ to invest the time and money....even if it is possible to be 'managed'. I have a long list of projects that I'm chomping at the bit to get to. All require $$ too. Maybe DCC in the next lifetime?


For what it's worth, DCC's major benefit is that it simplifies wiring and cab control. Otherwise, there is no real advantage. This is why nothing is gained by retrofitting DCC on an existing DC layout. Everything is already wired and control panels are already in place. 

My new layout will be DCC, because it's new. Ultimately, I may tackle advanced DCC control of switches, signals and lighting. But for now, it will enable me to operate by connecting two wires.


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## JNXT 7707

Joefrumjersey said:


> For what it's worth, DCC's major benefit is that it simplifies wiring and cab control. Otherwise, there is no real advantage. This is why nothing is gained by retrofitting DCC on an existing DC layout. Everything is already wired and control panels are already in place...............


Joe, I think the type of model railroading that one enjoys also plays a huge factor. If I was focused on switching operations and/or running multiple loops - where I would benefit greatly by having the capability to run several trains, with more active locos available via sidings and spur tracks and the like... and more operators....I might be considering it.
My interest lies in "railfanning" my trains, watching them traversing a long, winding loop....over bridges, through tunnels and towns...taking in the view from different angles and perspectives. This is ultimate stress-free relaxation for me. When I'm not doing that, I'm building/rebuilding/detailing older locos and rolling stock, or working on new scenery. So...I can't work up a good interest in DCC...or as anything more than wasting time and money. But, that's just me - and I see the plus side it has for others. Obviously it works for many, as there are a good many who sing its praises.

I imagine that as long as there are model railroads, there will be DC vs. DCC debates! :laugh:


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## Joefrumjersey

JNXT 7707 said:


> Joe, I think the type of model railroading that one enjoys also plays a huge factor. If I was focused on switching operations and/or running multiple loops - where I would benefit greatly by having the capability to run several trains, with more active locos available via sidings and spur tracks and the like... and more operators....I might be considering it.
> My interest lies in "railfanning" my trains, watching them traversing a long, winding loop....over bridges, through tunnels and towns...taking in the view from different angles and perspectives. This is ultimate stress-free relaxation for me. When I'm not doing that, I'm building/rebuilding/detailing older locos and rolling stock, or working on new scenery. So...I can't work up a good interest in DCC...or as anything more than wasting time and money. But, that's just me - and I see the plus side it has for others. Obviously it works for many, as there are a good many who sing its praises.
> 
> I imagine that as long as there are model railroads, there will be DC vs. DCC debates! :laugh:


I completely agree with what you are saying. Over time, I've had the same discussion with many model railroaders, who only switched to DCC when they started to build a completely new layout. If I would have taken the time to think out my last DC layout, I would still be running DC, without any regret. This hobby is, (or should be), a means of relaxation, not something stressful. Having given up on previous layouts, I now see the advantages and potential value of DCC, but It's not by any means, the only solution.


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## thedoc

I'm planning to run DC, I've decided that I will concentrate on running full trains up and over Sandpatch grade from both sides, and do not anticipate a lot of switching along the main line. I will have a yard and a harbor area that will be handled by just a few switchers, here the control will be by blocks which should be adequate. I just don't see the need to do all those unrealistic things that DCC advocates brag about.


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## Joefrumjersey

thedoc said:


> _ I just don't see the need to do all those unrealistic things that DCC advocates brag about._


Unrealistic? Such as...:dunno: 

DCC is simply another way of controlling your trains. It does simplify running multiple trains on the layout at the same time, but you can also do that with DC. In either case, it's preferable to have more than one operator. I cannot imagine what DCC does that's unrealistic. 

I'm normally a lone operator, so I normally only operate one consist. Either DC or DCC will provide what I need, so it's a matter of what I have available. DCC wins,, (for me), because I don't have to wire blocks, just connect a couple of wires from the controller to the track. 

Granted, Upgrading older locomotives to DCC compatibility can be a royal PIA. But I really don't see that much difference between the two systems when it comes to enjoying your model railroad. It is just a matter of personal preference.


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## thedoc

Joefrumjersey said:


> Unrealistic? Such as...:dunno:
> 
> But I really don't see that much difference between the two systems when it comes to enjoying your model railroad. It is just a matter of personal preference.


I don't ever remember a real railroad having a tug of war between 2 locomotives.

When they introduce controller's that are dedicated to each locomotive, I might consider DCC, but as long as you need to select each locomotive that you want to run with any controller you pick up, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in playing with a computer, I just want to run trains. 

I should add, at a reasonable cost. Right now the controllers and decoders cost more that the engines I buy.


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## CTValleyRR

thedoc said:


> I don't ever remember a real railroad having a tug of war between 2 locomotives.
> 
> When they introduce controller's that are dedicated to each locomotive, I might consider DCC, but as long as you need to select each locomotive that you want to run with any controller you pick up, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in playing with a computer, I just want to run trains.
> 
> I should add, at a reasonable cost. Right now the controllers and decoders cost more that the engines I buy.


Just so you know. I have 4 controllers and usually 4 Engineers when I operate. The engineer keeps one cab for the session, and only switches locos when one completes its work for the session. And it's extremely simple to switch locos: as few as 2 or a max of 6 button presses (4 of which are the loco's number). It's easier to select a loco than to dial a phone.


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## Old_Hobo

A phone? What's a phone.....? :laugh:


----------



## Joefrumjersey

CTValleyRR said:


> Just so you know. I have 4 controllers and usually 4 Engineers when I operate. The engineer keeps one cab for the session, and only switches locos when one completes its work for the session. And it's extremely simple to switch locos: as few as 2 or a max of 6 button presses (4 of which are the loco's number). It's easier to select a loco than to dial a phone.


I might add, that consisting is also easy, so there is no tug of war. 

Although I do remember a tug of war between 2 GG1s on the Pit track at Wilmington DE. When the mechanics set up the consist, someone inadvertently left the opposite end cut in electrically. When the Hostler tried to move the consist, the two locomotives went in opposite directions. The dominant one pulled the draw head, and the jumper receptacles out of the other locomotive.


----------



## MtRR75

Old_Hobo said:


> A phone? What's a phone.....? :laugh:


It's that mini-computer/camera/GPS system in your pocket. You can actually use them to make phone calls!!!! (It's a hidden feature)


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## thedoc

CTValleyRR said:


> And it's extremely simple to switch locos: as few as 2 or a max of 6 button presses (4 of which are the loco's number). It's easier to select a loco than to dial a phone.



It's extremely simple after you've done it a few times and know the system, I'm just not interested in playing with a computer, which is what is driving most DCC systems. 2 things I'm looking for, dedicated controllers where each controller operates one engine only, and low cost. I'm not ready to spend more for the controller and decoder than I do for an engine.


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## CTValleyRR

MtRR75 said:


> It's that mini-computer/camera/GPS system in your pocket. You can actually use them to make phone calls!!!! (It's a hidden feature)


Except that if you're old enough to remember rotary phones, you probably can't figure the durned thing out!


----------



## Joefrumjersey

thedoc said:


> It's extremely simple after you've done it a few times and know the system, I'm just not interested in playing with a computer, which is what is driving most DCC systems. 2 things I'm looking for, dedicated controllers where each controller operates one engine only, and low cost. I'm not ready to spend more for the controller and decoder than I do for an engine.


So,the resolution still comes down to individual preference. You, (and some), prefer DC, while others prefer DCC. It's your railroad, and you can run the system you prefer. No one is forcing anything on you.


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## CTValleyRR

Exactly.


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## thedoc

CTValleyRR said:


> Except that if you're old enough to remember rotary phones, you probably can't figure the durned thing out!



Are you trying to tell me that other people don't use rotary phones anymore?


----------



## thedoc

Joefrumjersey said:


> So,the resolution still comes down to individual preference. You, (and some), prefer DC, while others prefer DCC. It's your railroad, and you can run the system you prefer. No one is forcing anything on you.



I used to hear the DCC crowd saying to run your trains, not your track, but I have yet to see my track move when I turn on the power. I really don't know what they are talking about, and I don't think they do either.


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## Joefrumjersey

thedoc said:


> Are you trying to tell me that other people don't use rotary phones anymore?


Only my mother - in -law.


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## thedoc

Joefrumjersey said:


> Only my mother - in -law.


The only reason I have a cell phone is due to a heart condition, and my wife said I was getting one whether I wanted it or not. To me it's a pocket watch that happens to make phone calls as well. A lot of times it sits on my desk, while I'm off doing something else.


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## Cycleops

thedoc said:


> I used to hear the DCC crowd saying to run your trains, not your track, but I have yet to see my track move when I turn on the power. I really don't know what they are talking about, and I don't think they do either.


Maybe they were saying you don't need such complex track wiring, I don't know. Its evident some people don't embrace new technology easily which is fine. Whatever you are comfortable with.


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## Joefrumjersey

thedoc said:


> The only reason I have a cell phone is due to a heart condition, and my wife said I was getting one whether I wanted it or not. To me it's a pocket watch that happens to make phone calls as well. A lot of times it sits on my desk, while I'm off doing something else.


That's another personal preference_ "choice"_. I no longer have a landline phone, and haven't for several years now. For what it was costing me, It wasn't worth keeping. The cell phone is multi-functional and fits in my pocket. So much more cost efficient.

Going back on topic, my oldest son is into model railroading, and he has an apartment sized switching layout. He mostly runs DC. His rationale is that he is the only operator, and can only run one engine consist at a time, therefore, no advantage to DCC. Again, personal choice.


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## Mister Bill

I do both. DC just suits me better most of the time for a lot of reasons. I enjoy tinkering with my DC's. I am afraid I might mess up my DCC and then have to deal with the waiting game of getting it fixed.

Bill


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## CTValleyRR

I want to emphasize that everyone should use what works for them, and not feel any pressure to switch one way or the other. There is nothing about either system that makes its users inherently better or worse.

That said, I once thought that there was no reason to switch because I a single operator. Then I visited a friend's layout and saw how easy it was to "park" a loco on a siding, without having to use switches or power-routing turnouts to isolate the track. That was enough to sell me.


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## CrazySpence

My club uses DC with a block system, 4 mainline colour coded throttles that can be set in the blocks manually at the panels or if during a session by the dispatcher upstairs. There's also 3 local throttles for 2 towns and the main yard 1 more in hidden staging, so 8 people can be on the layout at the same time doing something.


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## Chet

CTValleyRR said:


> I want to emphasize that everyone should use what works for them, and not feel any pressure to switch one way or the other. There is nothing about either system that makes its users inherently better or worse.
> 
> That said, I once thought that there was no reason to switch because I a single operator. Then I visited a friend's layout and saw how easy it was to "park" a loco on a siding, without having to use switches or power-routing turnouts to isolate the track. That was enough to sell me.


Well put. Not everyone has the same needs for their layouts. Different strokes for different folks.


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## norgale

raleets said:


> I'm running strictly DC on four separate tracks with four separate transformers. Works just dandy for me!
> Bob


I do the same thing. However I would like to have DCC for running multiple loco's at one time on the same tracks. The price keeps me in DC mode and that's ok with me for now. Pete


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## Cycleops

I'm sure you'll circum eventually!


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## Mayhem

I run DC also, I have 3 controllers. I set one or 2 going and play around on the third. I have installed lots of dead areas, that power can be killed, so I can park a train there with out removing it or running back to the round house. The price of DCC keeps me away from it.


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## norgale

I'm looking forward to bringing in a park model home where I live and adding a 10 x 35 Florida room on to it. The room will be my hobby room with space for my ship building and a four by 24 train layout. Then I hope to go with DCC.


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## thedoc

norgale said:


> I'm looking forward to bringing in a park model home where I live and adding a 10 x 35 Florida room on to it. The room will be my hobby room with space for my ship building and a four by 24 train layout. Then I hope to go with DCC.


What kind of ships do you build? In the past I had a large collection of WWII warships in small scale 1/600 and 1/700, primarily. I also built some 'O' gauge merchant ships, tug boats, tow boats, barges and car floats. At some point I will be building HO scale merchant ships for a harbor scene on my layout.


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## Cycleops

Mayhem said:


> I run DC also, I have 3 controllers. I set one or 2 going and play around on the third. The price of DCC keeps me away from it.


Wouldn't three DC controllers = one DCC controller?


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## norgale

It would as long as you run one train on one track with one transformer. You may also be able to run two trains at the same time on one track with one trans. but you won't have individual loco control.


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## MtRR75

Cycleops said:


> Wouldn't three DC controllers = one DCC controller?


Assuming that you are talking PRICE comparisons (not capability comparisons), the magnitude of the cost of converting from DC to DCC is not the cost of the controllers, but the number of locomotives that you want to convert.


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## thedoc

MtRR75 said:


> Assuming that you are talking PRICE comparisons (not capability comparisons), the magnitude of the cost of converting from DC to DCC is not the cost of the controllers, but the number of locomotives that you want to convert.



If all you want to do is control the direction and speed of the train, the extra capability doesn't come into play. I have said before that I don't want to spend more for the decoder and controller than I have spent on my engines. A very few I have bought for more than $200.00, a few more I have bought for less than $100.00, but most of them I have bought for less than $50.00, so that is my baseline, dedicated controllers and decoders for each engine for much less than $50.00 each.


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## DonR

The typical DCC loco decoder from Digitrax or others can run
as little as 20.00. Don't look at the prices of new
locos that come with DCC, they will be nearing 100.00 and way on
up, but you can add a decoder to a 25.00 used loco, and
still come under the price you pay for a new HO DC loco.

And you don't need to convert them all at the same time.
Use a DPDT switch and have either DC or DCC operational
on your layout then
you can run any loco when you have whatever type
of power it takes.

Don


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## thedoc

DonR said:


> The typical DCC loco decoder from Digitrax or others can run
> as little as 20.00. Don't look at the prices of new
> locos that come with DCC, they will be nearing 100.00 and way on
> up, but you can add a decoder to a 25.00 used loco, and
> still come under the price you pay for a new HO DC loco.
> 
> And you don't need to convert them all at the same time.
> Use a DPDT switch and have either DC or DCC operational
> on your layout then
> you can run any loco when you have whatever type
> of power it takes.
> 
> Don


That takes care of the decoders, but what about the cost of the controllers, or are you going to tell me that one controller will take care of several engines. I knew that already, and have decided against it, I want one dedicated controller for each engine. I don't want to have to program the controller for each engine I want to address, or each feature I want to address. I'm just not interested in playing with a computer, I just want to run trains and DCC (in it's current form) is not the way I want to do it. 

Having DC and DCC on the same layout, switching from one to the other, would just make it more complex, not less. 

FYI, I use a computer to get on forums, but I don't play with a computer and do all the things that computer users usually brag about.


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## Area57

davidone said:


> I don't dislike DCC but at my age I don't feel like messing with cv's, speed matching, etc. I also don't do operations, it's like watching grass grow, of course my opinion.


What are operations?


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## Magic

Operations. My take on it for model railroading is how much time you spend doing switching operations verses contentious running.
Switching operations such as making up trains in a yard and delivering them to industries on your layout.

Some people like a lot of operations and some don't. I like both and was able to build a big enough layout to do both.
Some like DC and some like DCC. You can run operations or continuous running with either, what ever makes you happy. 
My first layout was DC and I was happy with that but I would not even consider using DC on my current layout. 
It's all new so I didn't have to convert anything. With DCC it is much easier to do some things connected with operations
Many times I'll have two or three locos parked on the same siding, hard to do with DC.

Magic


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## Area57

Operations sound fun! I have a small layout but lots of switches. Maybe twenty. I will have to learn how to do this.

Edit. Just watched a couple you tubes. They had big layouts. I can learn some basic ones on my small layout.


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## pvt64

I to am Dc only. Like others, cost and everything I own is DC. Some of my engines go back to the 60s. 3 tracks all run seperately.


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## Cycleops

Chacun a son gout


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## longshot

um I am dc only, but I have only had a train for 5 days..lol I am a computer tech by trade so it is likely inevitable that I go digital, not to mention I am already looking into controlling with a laptop, via wifi..lol yep total geek here!


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## pvt64

davideone,
Thats how I took your post. I have no problem with people using DCC. I just cannot afford it and am not that sophisticated as far as railroading goes. DC is fine for driving trains around in circles which is what I do.


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## Joefrumjersey

longshot said:


> um I am dc only, but I have only had a train for 5 days..lol I am a computer tech by trade so it is likely inevitable that I go digital, not to mention I am already looking into controlling with a laptop, via wifi..lol yep total geek here!


Well it won't be long before you are on board the DCC wagon. With the right components, you can run from your Android or apple smart phone.


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