# NEED ASSISTANCE PLEASE. DCC question



## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

I have purchased (from a garage sale) 3 totes full of train accessories. Looks like a ton of track and train cars on the HO scale. After doing some research, I definitely want to start off with DCC. Should I just purchase a DCC locomotive and controller to get this project running. Shouldn't all HO track suffice? This is not this EZ track system, but will that match up with regular HO track? I don't know whether to buy a complete DCC train set. I have one tote full of scenery, etc and another with about 20 different HO size rolling stock. (I just learned that). Some of the wheels don't turn well, but looks like that is a simple fix. Some advice would be really helpful. Please don't laugh at my ignorance, Haha. thanks in advance. I am hooked, by the way. My boys are hooked also, and this seems to get them away from that darn Xbox. Thanks again. Dion


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## Aard D'Vaark (Aug 1, 2019)

yes, a DCC locomotive and a controller would make it easier to start with DCC ... and the track is preferred to be the shiny whitish silver stuff, not the yellowish copper if you have a choice ... and definitily not the steel stuff [also whitish but a magnet will stick to it] ..
have fun!


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Aard D'Vaark said:


> yes, a DCC locomotive and a controller would make it easier to start with DCC ... and the track is preferred to be the shiny whitish silver stuff, not the yellowish copper if you have a choice ... and definitily not the steel stuff [also whitish but a magnet will stick to it] ..
> have fun!


Thank you.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

When buying a DCC system, remember, go cheap, be disappointed real quick.
You might do well to visit a local model railroad club and talk with them about DCC.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Have you done an inventory of what you bought?
Do you have any locomotives?
What kind of track?


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Track is track. If you power it, mechanically capable locomotives of the correct gauge will run on it. However, steel and brass rails need more care to keep their bearing surfaces clean and able to run electrons into the metal tires of the locomotives. Also, locomotives need their tires to be clean for the same reason.
Different rolling stock should match couplers. What you purchase new may not couple well, or at all, with the stuff in the totes.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Welcome. I found myself in the same situation but with my own "stuff" that had been stored for decades. Best thing I ever did was go to my local hobby store, which was Dibbles Hobbies in San Antonio, Texas. Two guys worked in there at the time, one I think owned it. I just asked them if I could pick their brains between customers. "Absolutely, hang out as long as you like." More experienced guys would show up and when they heard I was re-entering the hobby, they gave me a lot of good info, too.

Dibbles at the time had a "DCC Starter" deal. It consisted of Digitrax Zephyr all-in-one command station, a DCC locomotive w/sound, and would have included some HO track. I got some freight cars instead of track since I had plenty already. It also included programming there in the shop, which served as a tutorial. For DCC, it was the best money spent. Since it was a package deal, the price for it all was about the same as if I'd bought it online -- but I would've never gotten the experience and the tutorial.

If you can find a nice hobby shop like this, it is worth the drive.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

One quick note on track. There are different codes of track. Some have higher rails (Atlas has code 100 and code 83 in HO) than others. Turnouts or switches are more expensive than just the track. If the turnouts/switches you may have gotten are in good shape and usable, you'll want track that matches their height or code. You can get transitions that go from one to the other.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

J.Albert1949 said:


> Have you done an inventory of what you bought?
> Do you have any locomotives?
> What kind of track?


Will post pics soon. I am supposed to be working right now, but all I can do is shop online. So many choices and models. A little confusing, so doing a lot of research.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

mesenteria said:


> Track is track. If you power it, mechanically capable locomotives of the correct gauge will run on it. However, steel and brass rails need more care to keep their bearing surfaces clean and able to run electrons into the metal tires of the locomotives. Also, locomotives need their tires to be clean for the same reason.
> Different rolling stock should match couplers. What you purchase new may not couple well, or at all, with the stuff in the totes.


Makes a lot of sense. Everyone is awesome with their answers. I have been nursing for over 21years. So when I teach, occasionally I will finding myself getting frustrated at answering questions that seem really obvious to me. I realized really quick, that this is more than just a once a year hobby. This can surely be an addicting passion. LOL Thanks again for answering even the most simple questions.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I was going to ask this earlier but decided not to. Now that you have brought up the subject though, do you plan on running a simple train around a circle of track for the kiddies, or are you planning to build a railroad layout empire for your own enjoyment and hobby?


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

jackpresley said:


> Welcome. I found myself in the same situation but with my own "stuff" that had been stored for decades. Best thing I ever did was go to my local hobby store, which was Dibbles Hobbies in San Antonio, Texas. Two guys worked in there at the time, one I think owned it. I just asked them if I could pick their brains between customers. "Absolutely, hang out as long as you like." More experienced guys would show up and when they heard I was re-entering the hobby, they gave me a lot of good info, too.
> 
> Dibbles at the time had a "DCC Starter" deal. It consisted of Digitrax Zephyr all-in-one command station, a DCC locomotive w/sound, and would have included some HO track. I got some freight cars instead of track since I had plenty already. It also included programming there in the shop, which served as a tutorial. For DCC, it was the best money spent. Since it was a package deal, the price for it all was about the same as if I'd bought it online -- but I would've never gotten the experience and the tutorial.
> 
> If you can find a nice hobby shop like this, it is worth the drive.


Thank you so much. We love going to San Antonio. Brother in law lives there. Here in Midland/Odessa, TX I don't know of much. I did walk into a shop in Ruidosa, NM. It's tucked back into a indoor minimall right on the main shopping road. Thanks for the advice.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> I was going to ask this earlier but decided not to. Now that you have brought up the subject though, do you plan on running a simple train around a circle of track for the kiddies, or are you planning to build a railroad layout empire for your own enjoyment and hobby?


Oh, this has gotten completely out of hand, that's why I was asking about DCC. My wife wanted a train set for the Christmas tree, then we happened by a large garage sale, then the bug hit me. Then I infected my boys. The actually stopped playing Xbox to come see what I bought. So, there goes the $39.99 Christmas train special and here comes the investment. That's what we are calling my new train venture. Another issue I am needing advice on is this: We are renting a house. I have about 9 months before I am going to move. ( I am thinking big here) I have 2 sheets of 3/4inch plywood that will serve as my landscape. See where I am going. It it possible to move without destroying once I get everything lined up. OR do I plan on taking everything apart? Just curious. Keeping all of this in mind, I need to do it in monthly steps. So, I was thinking DCC locomotive and controller to start.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

mesenteria said:


> Track is track. If you power it, mechanically capable locomotives of the correct gauge will run on it. However, steel and brass rails need more care to keep their bearing surfaces clean and able to run electrons into the metal tires of the locomotives. Also, locomotives need their tires to be clean for the same reason.
> Different rolling stock should match couplers. What you purchase new may not couple well, or at all, with the stuff in the totes.


I sold a tote full of track that was (I think) Size O. I sold it cheap for $50. It had small little rust areas. He was happy. Said he would clean it up. So, I understand what your telling me. I wouldn't have, but I saw first hand how this could be a time intensive issue. Plus, we decided to go with the HO size due to the amount of track I purchased that was really clean. there were also 3 locomotives and about 20 rolling stock in that size. The locomotives look like they need some care and are DC, I believe. Probably just the cheaper models. Some of the cars were of the same caliber. tyco, plastic etc. some of the cars had metal under them. Still learning.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

3/4" plywood is really overkill, but if you already have it there's no sense in not using it. You will still need proper benchwork built under it, but for now, until you move, a trio or four sturdy sawbucks can support it until moving day. I really wouldn't use less that four. Warping is not an option with unsupported plywood of any thickness. It _will_ warp if not properly supported.

I would purchase the sawbuck leg mounts and cut your own 2x4's so you get a full four foot span for the 3/4" plywood.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Mucho agreement wtih Michael...since you know that you will be moving...the thing to do is 
think 'temporary' and 'testing'....get some track cleaned up and temporarily set up on
your plywood. Be sure that the 'joiners' that connect the track are clean and make
good mechanical connection. Clean the loco wheels...the easy way to do this
is to put a paper towel with a spot of alcohol on the track...run the front wheels onto
the spot, hold the loco by hand as you raise the speed control thus spinning the
wheels in the alcohol. Repeat with the rear wheels.

There are values in DCC systems...I got mine used on Craigslist 'toys and games' and
'collectibles'...any brand will be suitable for the trains you have. DCC decoders are
available for DC locos for around 20.00 or less...they are fairly easy to
install in about an hour oir so, but would require a soldering iron. Another very
desirable tool for a layout is a cheap multimeter...they sell for around 5.00 at
Harbor freight...and sometimes are free.

Save any DC power packs that came in your totes...you'll need them to
power turnouts and lighting.

Don


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> 3/4" plywood is really overkill, but if you already have it there's no sense in not using it. You will still need proper benchwork built under it, but for now, until you move, a trio or four sturdy sawbucks can support it until moving day. I really wouldn't use less that four. Warping is not an option with unsupported plywood of any thickness. It _will_ warp if not properly supported.
> 
> I would purchase the sawbuck leg mounts and cut your own 2x4's so you get a full four foot span for the 3/4" plywood.


Awesome! Simple but effective. Yes, I already had the 3/4 inch.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

DonR said:


> Mucho agreement wtih Michael...since you know that you will be moving...the thing to do is
> think 'temporary' and 'testing'....get some track cleaned up and temporarily set up on
> your plywood. Be sure that the 'joiners' that connect the track are clean and make
> good mechanical connection. Clean the loco wheels...the easy way to do this
> ...


Thank you. Every time someone responds, it's like...my little light bulb goes off.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

drtree216 said:


> Thank you. Every time someone responds, it's like...my little light bulb goes off.


that didn't sound right. LOL. I meant the Idea light bulb. Thanks


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

📌
*Dion*,
It would behoove you to purchase a book or two at this point if you're serious about going into the hobby. They have titles like: "DCC Model Trains" or "How to Build A Model Railroad", "Model Railroad Bench Work" ...etc..You can find them on ebay if not a local hobby shop..
I owned books like that when I was a kid in the 1950s...No diff today,...except now there are a thousand how-tos for free on YouTube, to boot ! *M*


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

drtree216 said:


> Oh, this has gotten completely out of hand, that's why I was asking about DCC. My wife wanted a train set for the Christmas tree, then we happened by a large garage sale, then the bug hit me. Then I infected my boys. The actually stopped playing Xbox to come see what I bought. So, there goes the $39.99 Christmas train special and here comes the investment. That's what we are calling my new train venture. Another issue I am needing advice on is this: We are renting a house. I have about 9 months before I am going to move. ( I am thinking big here) I have 2 sheets of 3/4inch plywood that will serve as my landscape. See where I am going. It it possible to move without destroying once I get everything lined up. OR do I plan on taking everything apart? Just curious. Keeping all of this in mind, I need to do it in monthly steps. So, I was thinking DCC locomotive and controller to start.


Yes, this hobby has a tendency to get out of hand in a fast hurry, both in terms of money spent and time to get it all done. No harm in thinking big! But you've just added a couple of decimal places to your $39.99 -- you're probably up to $3999 or more. Do yourself a favor: get that money you're probably saving for a down payment on the house out of reach... otherwise you will be moving an awful lot of train stuff into a one room cabin!

Seriously, if you know you're moving in 9 months, spend the time doing some research, some sensible acquisitions, and some preliminary designs, so when you get to your new place you can set up your dream empire. Most moving companies won't accept liability for damage to your layout, and most people chop theirs up into manageable sections and repair it when they arrive -- if they don't take the opportunity for a complete do-over, that is. Few model railroaders stick with their first attempt at a layout forever. For one thing, your modeling skills will improve as you do more of it, and what looked pretty good when you were starting out may start to look amateurish to you. For another, you may find through experience that what you thought you wanted early on really isn't what you like after all, or you may find things that sounded good in concept that don't work out. Either way, have fun, experiment, and gain some knowledge so that when you do move, you're ready to take the plunge into that dream layout.

In the meantime, get yourself a DCC set. If you want a limited feature (no programming of locomotive features, not enough power to run a lot of trains, etc), go with an MRC Prodigy Explorer or Bachmann EZ Command. If you want a full featured system, look at offerings by MRC, Digitrax, or NCE. They all have essentially the same features and abilities; it's the human engineering (interface, controls, displays, sequence of commands, etc.) that's different between them. You won't go wrong with any of them; if you can try before buying, so much the better. Everybody has their favorite, they all have pros and cons, so it's really a matter of personal preference, not "better". You will probably have to install decoders in those old locos, which can be a bit of a bother, depending on how old they are. You'll have to clean up the locos and the other rolling stock after they've been unused for a while anyway.

Before you let the bug REALLY bite you, take some time to think about what you want from your layout. Do you want one that operates like a real railroad, hauling cargos and passengers from place to place, or do you just want to run trains around a loop of track (which can be a simple oval or more complex routes)? Do you want to have a unified theme -- one railroad and a short timeframe -- or do you just want to run what looks cool. Do you want to be realistic, minimalistic, or whimsical? There are no right answers, only what makes you happy. But thinking about this stuff ahead of time means that you won't spend money on things will end up not fitting in later on.


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

drtree216 said:


> Thank you so much. We love going to San Antonio. Brother in law lives there. Here in Midland/Odessa, TX I don't know of much. I did walk into a shop in Ruidosa, NM. It's tucked back into a indoor minimall right on the main shopping road. Thanks for the advice.


The gent that owned that shop passed away last year from pancreatic cancer. Very sorry to see him go.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

drtree216 said:


> Thank you so much. We love going to San Antonio. Brother in law lives there. Here in Midland/Odessa, TX I don't know of much. I did walk into a shop in Ruidosa, NM. It's tucked back into a indoor minimall right on the main shopping road. Thanks for the advice.


My pickup truck was bought at a Chevy dealer in Odessa Texas. Small world hahaha. As far as dcc goes you can do a dcc install into most any locomotive. I’ve done installs on almost all of my locos but you need to be more electrically inclined to do it so you don’t burn out a bunch of decoders. I chose to go with the digitrax system and I got the LNWI as well as the pr4 to attach to the system. The LNWI is a WiFi thing that hooks to the system so you can download a throttle app onto your smart device and run your layout. The app I have is WiThrottleLite with my iPhone. The pr4 I have is not used to its full extent but I use it on my off layout programming track so I can use jmri to program decoders using my computer so I have a screen that is showing me what I’m doing. That is a discussion for a later time. If you end up dcc keep in mind the smaller systems can only run so many trains at a time. My old club had the nce power cab and it couldn’t even run a pair of gp38s from atlas with tsunami sound decoders installed. If you’re going to be running multiple unit trains and a couple of them at a time I would suggest going with a bigger system


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Jscullans said:


> My old club had the nce power cab and it couldn’t even run a pair of gp38s from atlas with tsunami sound decoders installed.


I find that difficult to believe when I can run four sound equipped locomotives and two non-sound simultaneously on my layout with a Powercab.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Unless they wired it up incorrectly or something was wrong with those locomotives than I’m not sure what would cause it. If you ran a single loco it would work great but if you ran two it wouldn’t allow them to run up to speed. Didn’t matter what locos they were either


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

At this stage of the game you should stick with trying out different layouts on the plywood, without soldering any track or nailing it down. As CTValley mentioned, there are various types of layouts ranging from a simple circle to full-blown operations between towns, and everything in between. Then you need to consider if your layout will be flat or have some elevation (mountains). Do you want to model a specific time period? A specific railroad line? Steam or diesel? What kind of automation do you want for track or crossing signals, or loading/unloading cars? Do you want to incorporate any sort of computer controls? There's a lot of possibilities and the more you read on the subject, the more questions you are going to have.

When I got back into the hobby a few years ago, I had some vague ideas about what I wanted to do and started designing different layouts. In my case I knew I wanted to stick with steam locos, and some research led me to desire something around the turn of the century. Work out from any general notions you have... I did the continuous circles when I was a kid but now I want to include industrial services, give my trains a purpose for moving. I started out identifying a couple of major industries to dictate the major routes of my layout designs, and later on I added a couple minor industries, plus there's always the general boxcars and flatcars to move other random goods. I created major stops for the cars carrying the various goods, and my lumber service even has three specific locations including a change of processed lumber between narrow and standard gauge railroads. You probably won't have room to completely model any industry completely, but you can just model specific aspects of each to give the sense of what is going on. Once you have those ideas in mind, you can figure out what sort of track is needed for each and create various yards, sidings, and spurs for moving the cars around while leaving a mainline open for the trains that go round-and-round. Don't expect to build anything permanent any time soon, but you can at least lay out the track and try different ideas to get a sense of what you like.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Update on my venture. I bought a locomotive, more track, and the NCE power cab. I also bought a caboose, but why...I don't know. Thought I was supposed to.. The Locomotive was onsale for $199 Bachmann 2-8-4 Birkshire Steam Locomotive. HO scale. At the time, I just new it was DCC equipped and ready for me to get started. I was asked "What road do yo like?" Hell, I don't know....What does that mean? Now I understand and have read and reread a ton of article on the Birkshire #759 Nickel Plate Road now living in Scranton, PA. LOL. Knowing the history of this locomotive has made me intensely insane. Which rolling Stock? I have come to find out, since I am the purchaser I can pull what ever I want. Frieght, Pullman passenger cars, 1920's Open top, flat cars....ect. 
I think my little Christmas tree venture has gotten completely out of hand. This has been a wonderful distraction from trying to supervise our little hospital during a pandemic! Hauling bodies to the morgue, comforting loved ones, nurses, doctors has become the job of the day. Hard to reassure folks that everything will be okay when so many are dying. Argued with people at the local convenience store the other day. Please were your mask, or at least don't whine when your intubated and on the vent! 
Sorry for the downer!!!! Just wanted everyone that posted to know that the model train bug has bitten me and I love it! Please be safe! Wash your hands, don't touch your face!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

drtree216 said:


> I also bought a caboose, but why...I don't know. Thought I was supposed to..


As far as I know, every steam loco always had a caboose attached for runs, but not usually when working in the yard. It wasn't until the 80's that the caboose was virtually eliminated from trains, and that little flashing red light mounted on the rear never had the same appeal to me.

That's a pretty massive loco you got there. It will look great hauling heavy freight or passenger trains and if you decide to work in the transition period it will also look good sitting with some diesels.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

This type of locomotive was the last Steamer to run on the NKP line. It was impressive to me as a kid watching it run a few blocks form where we lived in Fostoria!


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I have a feeling you're going to end up somewhere around here in a few years...


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

My layout went from a 4x8 sheet of plywood to a 10x16 room with my layout all the way around it in less than a year. Being an equipment mechanic it’s one of those things that allows me to decompress after a long hard days work and not be ready to drink myself stupid


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Lemonhawk said:


> This type of locomotive was the last Steamer to run on the NKP line. It was impressive to me as a kid watching it run a few blocks form where we lived in Fostoria!


You actually had a chance to see this train? No that would be awesome. The boys and I will make a trip to Scranton as soon as this Covid thing slows down. I have watched a few videos on Youtube and read and interesting article. When everything finally came in I was so excited to get started. I had this sheet of plywood painted white and ready to receive my track. Opened my box and the NCE power cab, some track, my caboose (already had the locomotive), spikes, cork track bed....etc. however, I only ordered half of my curve! Also, I didn't order the terminal joiners (Hope I am saying that right). Living in Odessa, Tx...sux if you are a model train enthusiast. So, now I am waiting again! Haha.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> I have a feeling you're going to end up somewhere around here in a few years...


Through to wall and into the next room? My goodness, I can't wait. My wife is gonna kill me. Wonder how my landlord would respond? LOL


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

No, it is all in one room. I've thought about taking it into the next room, but it's too much remodel work.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I lived on Wood street in Fostoria a block north of the NKP, C&O and B&O railroads, I was in the 2nd and 3rd grades during the time that the Mid Block was being built.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

drtree216 said:


> Through to wall and into the next room? My goodness, I can't wait. My wife is gonna kill me. Wonder how my landlord would respond? LOL


I'm using my living room, though we don't use it except for the freezer is in there, the den is where we usually are. Right now my layout is a 4X8 table with casters and am about to expand one end by 4ft making it an "L" shaped layout. I get / got "The Look" when I jokingly mentioned having track and table all over the house. The garage is out because too hot in Summer and too cold in Winter plus it's where my antique hot rod resides. An 8X8X4 is plenty big for me


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Totally awesome! I will share my very first scene i put together. Now, nothing is remotely complete. My daughter just asked what I was doing and I sent her this pic


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

drtree216 said:


> Totally awesome! I will share my very first scene i put together. Now, nothing is remotely complete. My daughter just asked what I was doing and I sent her this pic


A snow scene eh, nice to visit but wouldn't want to live it again, Blizzard of '78 Survivor. When I thawed out I moved back South and been here ever since


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I remember the Blizzard of 1978 in Indiana. I lived north of Indianapolis and the wind chill was -70. Completely filled my neighbors old garage with snow, had to pull the car out with a tractor leaving a snow mold of the car in the garage! The drift over my driveway was over 10'. Instead of moving south, a few years later I move to Minnesota!


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

This former Navy Brat turned Southern Boy when Dad retired from the Navy in '68 grew up the rest of the way in Georgia. My first Father-In-Law was a Ford Exec and he promised he could get me into a plant but I had to come to Detroit, SOOOOO we made the trek, froze my . . . . . . (yeah, and them too) off. After 6 weeks of 40 below and it warmed up to about 30 we were outside in T-shirts, and sweating. To this Southern Gent there was something so wrong with that picture LOL and after we thawed out we packed everything we owned back into the car and headed South. No, never did get the promised job at Ford


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@MichaelE -- That's one heck of a grade coming up in your first and second pictures! Do you have a measurement for that? How many cars can you pull up it?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

ÖBB 2143 has pulled three 280mm coaches and three era III shorties without trouble. RhB ABe 4/4 III pulls the only three HOm cars I have, but it would pull at least four additional coaches.

The Bemo HOm rolling stock is lightweight compared to standard HO and the locomotives are heavy for their size. Lots of tractive effort there.

The steepest effective grade of 6% on my layout is still less than the 7%+ found on the real Rhätische Bahn in Switzerland.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Yeesh that really is quite a grade! And quite the powerhouse locomotives you've got there.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> A snow scene eh, nice to visit but wouldn't want to live it again, Blizzard of '78 Survivor. When I thawed out I moved back South and been here ever since


Burrr! Don't know if I could handle that! LOL Then I heard that we are possibly gonna have the same conditions 1978. Crazy.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Finally got my train around the track! Oh my goodness! It was awesome! I was still waiting on my terminal joiner to come in and I read a post that said they are not that great. I am such an idiot. Been waiting a week! Soo, I ran down to Home Depot and bought a soldering gun. Problem solved! It went around one time without incident! Standard Oval on a 4' x 8' piece of plywood. Well, this opened a whole new can of worms! Less power to the opposite side of the track. Was using joiners only. Now, they are ALL soldered!!! No change in the power to the opposite side. Also, My track is running on cork bed. Which probably isn't perfect. Plywood also had a small bow in it from leaning against the fence outside. Since I decided I had to have a 2-8-4 Birkshire. The 2 and the 4 have a tendency to come off the track! LOL Then, on the second attempt, I lost it on the 22 inch curves I was using(THEY said I had to have minimum of 22's). However, I do know that the Locomotive doesn't really care WHERE the tinder and boxcar is, CUZ it was still PULLING IT. My son said STOP. I couldn't see one side because of the Christmas Tree that is in the middle of our plywood. So Im thinking that I need a little angle on the track LIKE DAYtONA!. Not really. I didn't. .......Was Hoping to give yall a laugh, but I swear....it's all TRUE! The life and times of a newbie!!
There are only so many hours in a day to read up on train Modeling combined with only ONE day off! Don I need something called a Power distribution board? I only have the NCE powerCAB. The only extra wire I had yesterday was 22ga. I was thinking heavier? What the easiest way to get the best distributed power?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That track 'angle like Daytona' is called 'super elevation'...it's a nice 'realistic' thing but sure not needed on
a 4 X 8 layout and very few of us build it,. You must absolutely level tracks to avoid derailments. The cork roadbed is
a very satisfactory base for your tracks. The soldered joints and connections should give you
good current distribution all around the layout. Even so, the track and power pickup wheels of locos must be
kept cleaned of grime that can hinder electrical conductivity. 

You do NOT need a 'power distribution board'. A pair of wires from your controller or power source with 
dropa to it from the track is all that is suggested.

Don


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

I just got some Kato super-elevated double track Unitrack (V11), got it laid out temporarily in a loop. I'll be adding a 4 ft leg onto the table making a 8X8X4 L shape. I'll run a buss from one end to the other and put joiner feeds about every 4 ft or so to all tracks, that way there won't be any power drops anywhere on the layout, I'll make enough joiner/feeders here instead of buying them. The table itself will be the distribution board. Turnouts will be powered with my "old" DC controller (no rail connections at all) and lighting will come from the power chargers / pods that came from thrown away stuff


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Stopped by Home Depot again. Bought some 16ga wire. Since this 4x8 sheet of plywood is now on the floor, I also bought some knee pads! Getting old! 
I was hoping that the 16ga would be sufficient for the buss, and the 22ga I already had will work for the joiners. I honestly didn't realize there was such thing as Super-elevated. Daytona sounded good. Haha. I think I found my problem with the cork roadbed. They come in 3ft lengths and I was trying to glue it to the plywood(that I painted white) while slowly bending it to make the curve. Glue degraded the paint and some areas of the cork came up juuuuust a little bit. This caused uneven areas. I don't think it would have been a problem except for the locomotive I have. This 2-8-4 has to be perfect for all wheels to touch! I do have a Tyco power source that was in all this stuff I bought at earlier mentioned garage sale. It's Gold and Huge. I guess this could be for all the little extra lights...one day. This learning as I go has been Very interesting. Want to say Thank you to everyone that has helped!


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

16 gauge is a great choice for the rail bus and 22 gauge is great for the feeders! Get some zip ties and tie holder Commercial Electric 1 in. UV Mounting Base - Black (100-Pack)-HW-4ACB - The Home Depot to hold the wires in place. I like to use terminal barrier strips as connection points rather than those 3m clamp gizmos.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Need some more advice. I have started over and hopefully include all information for assistance. After the total cluster with project number one, I decided to start over with another piece of plywood with 2x4 base for sturdiness. Started over with my oval track. My curve measures 42 inches. I have 3 inches either side on this piece of plywood. Made sure all track was joined nicely and even soldered each joint. I figured it would conduct better. I have the 16ga wire running under the table and now have 2 areas that have 22ga wire to joiners. Drilled holes there where I could run the wire though to the underside to tie in to my 16ga. On one end I have my NCE powercab set up. This track is all code 83. The curves I purchased are 22in. The straight track is 3ft and flexable. My Locomotive is a Bachman 2-8-4 Birkshire. 
I can't get it to stay on the track. The leading set of guide wheels will jump off. Or the trailing 4 will jump off which will derail the tinder. It appears that my oval isn't large enough? I am still losing power at spots, so I was going to add more connections, but it seems like overkill. Possibly bad connection? Also, do I need to purchase that little track tool that makes sure the rails are uniform. I don't see how they couldn't be, but I am a newbie. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks again.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

What did the instructions for the locomotive indicate for a minimum radius?

A couple of things don't add up here.

Your say your curve radius is 22". That should give you a half-circle 44" in diameter which leaves 2" on either side of the track to the edge of the table if it's on a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

To get a 42" half-circle you would have kinks in the track at each joint to compress the diameter to 42". 

If the above is true, this is likely why your locomotive is derailing. If it is not true, then the locomotive may need a wider radius to operate reliably.


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> What did the instructions for the locomotive indicate for a minimum radius?
> 
> A couple of things don't add up here.
> 
> ...


Still doesn't work properly. Starting over again. LOL


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You have a 4 X 8 sheet of plywood. As Michael has pointed out 22 inch radius would not give you 
three inches from track to wood edge. If that is true your curve may not be full 22:" and that could
be why you have derails. It is often suggested that for a 22" or better radius you need a 5 foot
width. 

However, if your radius is a true 22" here is how to get
a better fix on what is the derail cause:

When you have a derailing loco it's time to get down close with
a very good light...run the loco as SLOW as it will go at a place where
it has derailed...at the second that you see wheels lift...STOP. Something
right there is causing the derail. Inspect the track,,,are the rails even...is there
a kink...if this is a curve...is the length of the loco possibly pulling the front
truck off the rails...the same could be true for the trailing truck.



Don


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

DonR said:


> You have a 4 X 8 sheet of plywood. As Michael has pointed out 22 inch radius would not give you
> three inches from track to wood edge. If that is true your curve may not be full 22:" and that could
> be why you have derails. It is often suggested that for a 22" or better radius you need a 5 foot
> width.
> ...


I will do all suggestions. It's about to get real! LOL. So, I ordered 22in curves and they all look joined nicely. My son measured, HAHA. There are 8 22in curved pieces that look good on each end. I have flex track connecting. Only 3ft. It had a small curve that I placed for scenery, plus I thought it looked better than a standard oval. I have done more research also. Again, each curved piece looks good. Also, they are all soldered. I will double check these joints to make sure the inside doesn't have any solder. It seems like I am not the only one that has issues like this. These 2-8-4's, 4-8-4's, etc. seem to be really finicky. I will pay closer attention to the fine detail. Even had my wife ready up. She asked why I didn't get the simple EZ type track from Bachman or Kato. She said it specifically says for beginners! Yes, she threw in a little sarcasm. Probably because she heard my bitching and complaining. LOL again. 
I have some days off coming, and I am going to get down to the nitty gritty and try everyones suggestions.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The 2-8-4s and 4-8-4s are LONG locomotives. The derailing front and rear trucks are at the extremities...notice how the 'cow catcher' protrudes beyond the track on curves...that means that the front truck's 'mobility' is being taxed, possibly beyond it's maximum limits thus the wheels leave the track. After all the above discussion it appears that
the solution is to widen the curve radius or get shorter locos.

Don


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

DonR said:


> The 2-8-4s and 4-8-4s are LONG locomotives. The derailing front and rear trucks are at the extremities...notice how the 'cow catcher' protrudes beyond the track on curves...that means that the front truck's 'mobility' is being taxed, possibly beyond it's maximum limits thus the wheels leave the track. After all the above discussion it appears that
> the solution is to widen the curve radius or get shorter locos.
> 
> Don


Thank you. Gonna try it.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

That "beginner's" track may cause you more problems that what you have now! Measure from the center of the straight piece connect to the start of the curved section to the center of the track where the curve ends and you should get 44 inches, the diameter of a 22" radius circle. When I have derail problems, i take a map pin and while watching the locomotive at a speed that it derails, I set the pin close to the problem, then run again while watching that position and keep adjusting the pin location until if fine the problem point (the map pin helps you focus on a small section of track. Then I get out the NMEA gauge and make sure the track is right and there are no obstructions. If it still happens then its time to start looking at the locomotive to see it the problem exists with it. Usually easier to fix track problems than locomotive problems.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

In my experience, first time was with a Lionel HO UP Challenger, the front engine derailed most of the way past the frog. Upon careful analysis, which I had to learned HOW TO DO during that incident, it was that the rear engine was just getting to the frog, but the turnout was high under the frog. As the rear engine encountered the higher trackhead height, it horsed the frame ahead of it high and that lifted the lead axle of the front engine out of the gauge just enough for the outside wheel to slip sideways. So, when you get longer/larger frames of any type of locomotive, whether steam or diesel, having trouble staying in the rails, and you wheelsets are all in gauge, and the curves are reasonably wide for the type, then look to uneven rail heights, lowered rail on the outside often is the case.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

drtree216 said:


> I have purchased (from a garage sale) 3 totes full of train accessories. Looks like a ton of track and train cars on the HO scale. After doing some research, I definitely want to start off with DCC. Should I just purchase a DCC locomotive and controller to get this project running. Shouldn't all HO track suffice? This is not this EZ track system, but will that match up with regular HO track? I don't know whether to buy a complete DCC train set. I have one tote full of scenery, etc and another with about 20 different HO size rolling stock. (I just learned that). Some of the wheels don't turn well, but looks like that is a simple fix. Some advice would be really helpful. Please don't laugh at my ignorance, Haha. thanks in advance. I am hooked, by the way. My boys are hooked also, and this seems to get them away from that darn Xbox. Thanks again. Dion


 drtree216

You and your boys should have a great time with those trains!
The files below are some I wrote for new modelers contemplating their first layout. They may give you some useful information.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## drtree216 (Oct 28, 2020)

Lemonhawk said:


> That "beginner's" track may cause you more problems that what you have now! Measure from the center of the straight piece connect to the start of the curved section to the center of the track where the curve ends and you should get 44 inches, the diameter of a 22" radius circle. When I have derail problems, i take a map pin and while watching the locomotive at a speed that it derails, I set the pin close to the problem, then run again while watching that position and keep adjusting the pin location until if fine the problem point (the map pin helps you focus on a small section of track. Then I get out the NMEA gauge and make sure the track is right and there are no obstructions. If it still happens then its time to start looking at the locomotive to see it the problem exists with it. Usually easier to fix track problems than locomotive problems.


Guess who's Off today! Gonna try it. Will post later.


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