# 3 rail track 101



## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

Hi all.. what is the difference between o gauge 3 rail track and 3 rail hi-rail track in measurements.[Lionel]I:E: height of rail and so forth. I looked on ebay,here on MTF and the internet. No results. Couldn`t find anything on Lionel.com either.I know the difference on 0 and 027. Will any engine run on it or is it propritary ?

Any help would be appreciated. What is it worth nd so forth or where do I look?

Have a great new week starting tomorrow.Everett on track..


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Not really sure what you mean by hi-rail track. O27 is not as high as O. Some pre-war items have very large flanges and will not work well on O27. MTH makes what they call scale wheels and hi-rail wheels where the scale wheels have smaller (scale) flanges and the hi-rail has more traditional size (larger-but not as large as those pre-war) flanges. The scale wheels won’t do well on some O gauge track.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

My understanding of what Hi-rail is considered is that it is more realistic looking as compared to a full sized train, and would have evenly spaced cross ties the whole length of track. The common O & 027 track merely is toy looking with typically 3 cross ties, and not realistic looking. 

The 027 track is 7/16" high, O track is 11/16" high, any any train will run fine on O track, but a lot will have trouble with the lower profile 027. The available curve radius on the 027 is its biggest drawback.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*track101*

Hi,all..Tnx for the replies.Evidently then HI- rail is just a name someone picked up,for there club..I saw where there was a HI-railer club somewhere and I wondered what the difference was or if there was in the rails.

Have a great sunday and rest of week,sanepilot:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I've always heard that "hi-rail" track is higher (deeper for bigger flanges) than scale, and it surely looks that way, and that it includes just ab out all 3-rail track, O-27, Atlas, Fastrack, etc. Some two-rail track, like HO, is to scale, if you want to run scale flanges. Not me; I like trains that run without fus for hours and hours.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I agree with Lee. The manufacturers like MTH consider "hi-rail" to be 3-rail with large flanges, then MTH has "scale wheels" that are with smaller flanges for compatibility with 2-rail track, but able to run (sort of) on 3-rail track.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*track*

Hi,all I picked up some track that I had never seen before. supposely I have been running 0 and 027. I think from what I found out here it is 072. Enclosed is a coupla pic`s.Hope theyre not too big. Black ty and rather large.[lionel]. I know it will lay 072 circle. From top of rail to the flange is app 1/4 or 5/16th. I`m gonna post it in the for sale thread as I don`t have the room at the moment and satified with where I`m at,right now.














Please correct me if I`m wrong,many thanks,everett


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

In the first picture the curve on the left side is O/72.
If you find another like it but only with 5 ties that is O/54.
From what I see it looks to be all O track.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*101*

Thanks,Ed and everyone else for the replys. I`m gonna go up and put it in the for sale column.

Have a great week,everett:smilie_daumenpos:

This just in from the Hi-railer club.








Hope I did this right


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The most correct answer is what Lee posted, and the predominate manufacturer is MTH, with Hi Rail Track and Hi Rail wheels with deeper flanges. The loose term of just "Hi-Rail" is used to describe a more realistic look on a layout, compared to the "Toy Look" of standard old fashioned 3 rail track, whether it be 027 profile (7/16" tall rails) or O profile (11/16" tall rails.) For most of what is accessible on the subject, it refers to the realism, for a layout.

The photos of your track is O gauge in 072 radius curves. The O track has cross ties that are curled up on the two long sides, where the 027 profile has flat squared off cross ties. The cross ties are the telltale sign of which one is which.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

FWIW. I built my layout with O-27 profile track and a minimum diameter of 42". I have NEVER had a problem with flanges. Some
Marx trains have problems with turnouts/switches other than Marx.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*101*

Hi,all.FWIW: O gauge measures 7/16 plus a tad, 027 measures 1/4 plus a tad, 0 gauge fastrack measures 2 plus a tad from bottom of rail to the top.
Tad being maybe a thousands or two. This is according to a digital caliper and also a 0 to 1 micrometer.If I read them right.

Is there any other model train[toy or scale] rail beside G scale rail.
I`m not considering mini riders or full scale. Just curious what the 11/16 number is posted on here.

very interesting thread and as usual I learned something:smilie_daumenpos:


Tnx,people and have a good second of the week,Everett


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

sanepilot said:


> 0 gauge fastrack measures 2 plus a tad from bottom of rail to the top.
> Tad being maybe a thousands or two. This is according to a digital caliper and also a 0 to 1 micrometer.If I read them right.


I think you need a re calibration of your calipers! 

My not so cheap caliper says that Fastrack is .642" total thickness to the top of the rail.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*101*

Hey,gunnyjohn..U da man..I don`t need a recal on my caliper,I definitely need a recalibration on my brain. I got rid of all my expensive equipment about 20 yrs ago. I`ve forgot what little I did know.I`m been running what I thought was 0 gauge and 027. After this thread started I found out I had all 027[dang,I hate to be wrong]. But after looking at the true 0 gauge, I pulled the smaller curves and straight track I had for sale. I`m now the proud owner of a 0 gauge oblong circle. Probably sell a lot of fasetrack in the future. Like Lee,I luv the looks of the 0 track.

Thanks a bunch,keep up the good work, fellas have a great rest of the week,Everett


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

I seem to have that large flange problem. My older tinplate cars take a beating on the 90 degree crossovers on my layout. One coal tender in point had major derailing problems.

Turns out the wheels are free turning on the axles. That's not a problem, but the dimples on the axle holding them at the proper distance was.

The dimples were letting the wheels come in too close together. That would derail the tender every time it hit the crossover.
I solved the problem by getting tiny washers and slipping them onto the axles (making SURE they were not large enough to slip over the dimples)
I installed them on the outside of the dimples, making the wheels just a bit farther apart.
Results? Not one derail since then.

Now I have another problem, which seems harder to solve. My passenger cars and any cars with lighting have issues with the crossovers.
Seems the rollers hit the crossing's cutoff third rail so hard, they literally bounce up and either uncouple from the car behind them or derail.

I tried smoothing the bump by bumping that point down, but the rails are strong, they won't budge.
And it would take a lot of undoing to take the crossings out to rework them.

Any one had/have this problem? Any suggestions?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

teledoc said:


> My understanding of what Hi-rail is considered is that it is more realistic looking as compared to a full sized train, and would have evenly spaced cross ties the whole length of track. The common O & 027 track merely is toy looking with typically 3 cross ties, and not realistic looking. .


How can any three rail system be considered realistic?


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*101*

Good morning all.Ron,I had the same problem with a engine and never did get it figgered out.It was on a frog. Somewhere on the forum I thought I saw the answer. Anyhow you`ll get a answer in time.

Hay,cyclops..Have you ever seen a four rail system on a main line full scale railroad. You could have as many rails as you could want as long as they were in gauge. You just run all trains very carefully. 

I gotta question-what is realistic 

Have a great day everybody,Everett--Man,I hope today is as good as it was for me yesterday,I had a fantastic day:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

sanepilot said:


> Hay,cyclops..Have you ever seen a four rail system on a main line full scale railroad. You could have as many rails as you could want as long as they were in gauge. You just run all trains very carefully.
> 
> I gotta question-what is realistic


I have seen a four rail system on a full size railroad, but I don't know what that's got to with anything. The definition of 'realistic' would be true to the oeiginal you modelling surely?


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> How can any three rail system be considered realistic?


If you read Teledoc's statement carefully he said that Hi-rail track is "more realistic" than tinplate track. He didn't say it was realistic, but more realistic. Track like Gargraves Phantom with wood ties and a black center rail looks pretty good and far more realistic than older 3 rail track. For most of us O gaugers that's realistic enough.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*question on o gauge track*

Hi,all. Kinda looks like we got derailed on the track subject. I apologize for being dumb:smilie_auslachen: and not being able to state what I need to know.

I need to know what size track this is[original picATTACH]172393[/ATTACH]-- Now fine and dandy[072 large.
curve.

The two small straight and curve I`d like to order some. On ebay they most say 0 gauge or 027.The 0 gauge that I have looked at on amazon,ebay and the net ie: don`t look like the photos I have posted. I don`t wanta buy any 0 gauge I want to buy the wide flange 0 gauge like in the photos.[small straight and curve]

I honestly think most not all don`t know the difference,[no offence intended]:laugh:

Many thanks,sanepilot


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That is true O-gauge profile track. The straight sections will be 10 inches, while O27 will be 9 inches. Many times, that track is called O-31. The curve you picture appears to be an O31 curve.

Are you looking for 72" diameter curves in compatible track?


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*0 gauge*

Tnx,John for the reply. I got a 4x8 Tinplate layout[Marx mostly and some others. Inside track I put the 031 on it. Now,I`d like to put 031 or 042 0n the outside loop of the same profile. I got a few pieces of the 031 left and need to finish out the loop. I kept the 072 profile curves as on my Fastrack layout which is a
6 x 12 foot with a 4x4 extension L on one end.I may in time extend the 6x12 to 8x12 using 072 profile 0. Hope this makes sense

This week hasn`t been all wasted as I found some MTH 0 curves 3 rail which would make a 031 or 027 circle as near as I can tell.A little advertisement: Putting up The MTF 0 track curves free for shipping.

Thanks to all who helped the old man,Sanepilot- See the free thread

John,sometime down the road I might be.I`m keeping the 072 curves or most of them in time I may get rid of all fastrack,tnx


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Send me a PM, I happen to have a bunch of brand new O-gauge track in 42" diameter curves.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes sain, what do you need? I got 031 and straights, im not sure about the 042.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*track*

Hi,SJM..That sounds like a winner. Pm me with price for curves and straights. I`m not sure at the moment. I got one curve and 
8 or ten straights. I got the inside loop done and instead of a circle I put a half section and enough straights to make a oblong
on a 4x8 plywood. Now I want a outside loop on same 4x8. I think the straights will work on either 031 or 042 or 072.I`ll definitely check tomorrow for sure. I`m going saturday to see a train guru 60 miles away. Him and my son are friends and I`ve bought a few things from him. He sure is stupid. Ask him for a price and he`ll pull out his greenberg book and tell you what the price is. He asked me $40.00 for a box of rusty o27 track,I offered him $25.00 and he told me he could get more for junk.The next week or two I went into a local antique shop and ask about trains. He said he had a large bunch of track and he`d take $2.00 for it. I told him it was worth more. He just wanted to get rid of it,I bought it,took what I wanted and gave the rest to a forum member in texas for just shipping.[not bragging] I`ll get back with you tomorrow sometimes or later tonight.

Tnx,SJM-UDA MAN,Sanepilot


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*031 track*

Hi,all.. Thanks to everyone for the replys. SJM shipped me 031 track and simply refused to take anything for it,shipped free. 
That is one of the reasons I defend MTF. More good people on here than bad.Thanks,Gunny,I`ll keep that in mind. I`m thinking more and more in changing out all my fastrack. Depends on the train money I get this summer. 

Here is what I`ve found with 031 track and 027 and fastrack.

I had the 027 on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. No roadbed.really noisy,sounds like a tin can rolling down a gravel road. I put that inner loop of 031 down and my trains were fifty percent less noisy,and I get the true clicketty-clack of a real train[Go figger] of which I was looking for. The trains run absolutely pretty darn slick. I will fill in roadbed in the future. 

Everybody have a great weekend,Everett:smilie_daumenpos:


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*hi-rail versus o gauge?*

Hi,all,once again.... photo of track,not too clear,sorry.






rail on right is hi-rail,on left is o gauge. This image was on :I love toy trains: recently. Now my question doesn`t concern track but what size people would look good with the hi-rail track. O scale people are 3/4 inch high,I think.don`t look good,with hi-rail. What size people are some of you using with your track? most like [Lee} to me look pretty real good. inquiring minds need to know.

Any answer will be appreciated,If I don`t answer right away I`m haveing computer problems,ready to go with carrier pigeons. Have a good weekend,Everett


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

O scale is 1/4" to the foot so a 3/4" person might be OK for a child, but an adult should be about 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" tall (5 to 6 feet).


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*people*

Hi,Youre 150% right. my goof.That is my 2nd one today.That hi-rail video I watched from Patterson,NJ had a layout Of 60ft wide and 250ft long. Top of a old warehouse two fellas fixed up on the third floor.Awesome. May make it over there this summer,I hope.Throw some rocks at Big Ed on the wayLOL.

Then possibly hi-rail people might be 1/68 scale if O scale is 1/48th. All the wonders of model trains. Almost as bad as computers.

Tnx,have a good weekend-I think I`m up and running on my backup win7 sanepilot:smilie_daumenpos:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're talking about the NJ Hi-Railers, I've been up there a number of times, and we're going to go up later this month for a club run day with the NJ-HR folks. It's a layout to die for, they have bunch of webcams so you can watch live if you like.

NJ Hi-Railers, clock on the WebCams tab.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Seems to me that O scale Hi-Rail would still be 1/48th even if it was Low-Rail, Middle-Rail or No-Rail. The really strange thing is that the rails are spaced wrong.
If one is consistent with the size of certain details it might be OK or not. Your choice.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

S scale is 1:64 so ¾” would be 48”…still a bit small for an S scale adult.

The standard gauge of railroad track is 56 ½”. O track has a gauge of about 1.3 inches so it’s actually 1:43.5 scale. In Europe O scale is 1:43.5. In the US O scale trains are 1:48, but we use 1:43.5 track.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*Rail*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You're talking about the NJ Hi-Railers, I've been up there a number of times, and we're going to go up later this month for a club run day with the NJ-HR folks. It's a layout to die for, they have bunch of webcams so you can watch live if you like.
> 
> NJ Hi-Railers, clock on the WebCams tab.


Thanks,John for the heads-up..I`ll get up there and have a look see when I get time. I`m busier than a cat on a hot tin roof. Pkg came ,today, and many thanks for being a nice person. Gotta run,later.. Have a good new week coming up,Everett:appl:


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