# Whistle and bell controller



## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

Is there a way I can build a bell and whistle controller. I have a powerful lionel transformer from the 30's but no way to control the sounds on newer engines. My newer lionel transformers are only 40watts and will not have enough power to run real trains. I think you need at least 4 amps to really run stuff.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sure, but you can pick up a whistle controller on eBay for not much money. I have several in my closet that have come with large lots of other stuff I've bought. I believe you can also turn a whistle controller around and have it control the bells instead of the horn as well.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John,

I've been learning about whistle controllers myself, and just ebay picked up a nice #167 controller for $10 plus $3 shipping. Works great.

You might want to read the recent discussions on how controllers work in this thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5473

My Post #9 there talks tech a bit, and has a link to Lionel's old controller manuals.

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You won't find plans here,they are in the CTT forum, if you can find them. They consist of a relay and a series of diodes. The description is not that great.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a #167 in my closet, it came with a lot of other stuff. I also have a couple of #147's that I got the same way.

I've thought about using the #167 as a bell control wired backwards from the normal wiring, might give that a try.


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*Whistler controller*

I noticed that the old style whistle controller found on transformers like the ZW wont work with newer train(williams/bachman) bells and whistles. Why is that.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I've thought about using the #167 as a bell control wired backwards from the normal wiring, might give that a try.


OK ... my turn to ask a silly question ...

What distinguishes a bell control from a whistle control, signal-wise? A whistle "command" is a DC signals of around 1 to 3 volts. What's a bell command? Is is simply a polarity issue ... one positive, and the other negative?

Feeling clueless,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The bell and whistle control differences are simply reverse polarity of the DC bias on the track. That's why turning around the #167 should make it into a bell controller.

This should answer *johnfin's* question as well, one button, one polarity. That's why new transformers like my CW-80 have a whistle and bell button.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, Gun!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If anyone is looking for one of these whistle controllers...

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-167-POST...453651?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5196ce4d93

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-167-PRE-...513712?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5addfeb470

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-NO-167-W...548591?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3cb3617daf

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-167-WHIS...286831?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35aea48f2f


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*Whistle*

There must be somthing more then just DC voltage. I have a lionel steamer from the 40's and the whistle only works with my lionel 75watt vintage lionel controler. The cw80 wont make the whistle work, either polarity. On the other side my new williams gp9 wont work with the older controler and it has bells and diesel sounds.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, that's really all there is. You can go to Olsen's Service & Repair pages, pick your transformer, and you can obtain the schematic and service information. You'll find that all it is is a DC voltage with an A/C boost to allow the whistle load not to slow the train down.

Note that the load placed on the transformer for old ones determines how well the whistle works. As for the CD-80, it blows the whistle on all my trains, old and new.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I failed to mention that the CD-80 does not boost the voltage, it just impressed a +/- 2.5 VDC on the track voltage, depending on which button you use. It's assumed that new trains with digital horns and bells don't draw extra current.

I was initially fooled by the old transformers measuring for DC voltage with no load, it requires a load to actually see the voltage.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

All you need is the NOv 1998 article in CTT

One Discussion link I found

Here is one with schematics. THis is the one I saw a while back. It was on the third page of the search.


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*whistle*

I found that if you press the old school lionel transformer whistle button quickly 3 times it will activate the horn in the newer williams engines. Strange but it works. Now what would happen if I installed a DPDT switch to change from bell to whistle, would it mess on the travel of the engine if I threw the switch? Guess I could stop the train first.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

FYI, there's some detailed discussion on the mechanics of whistle controllers in this thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5473

See post #9, along with others. 

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You bored TJ? You answered a thread that was four years old!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ha ha ... I never even notice that.

Bored? Much too busy for that.

Senile, maybe ... that would explain a lot! 

TJ


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I've tried reversing the wires from the 167 to the track and the bell will not ring for me. Is the 167 defective maybe? 
Anyway, won't be needing to reverse wires after tomorrow. Charles Ro just sent a UPS tracking number for my CAB-2. Will be arriving tomorrow. Just waiting on the 993 expansion set. That's on back order, now.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can only use one remote at a time!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

John,

I thought that 2 people could run at the same time? Guess I'm confused. What should I get then instead of the 993, so 2 can use the rr at the same time?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was referring to the fact that you're only one person, it was a joke.  Obviously, you can run multiple locomotives with one remote, and you can connect up to, I believe, 16 remotes to a Legacy base.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Ok. 
So, I don't need the 993 expansion set to let someone else run the trains at the same time as I do? What I read is that only one Legacy Base is required per layout. So, I can just buy a CAB-1L remote without the base, for the second person to use simultaneously.

Please correct me if I'm mis-stating this: Either a 993 Expansion set or a CAB 1L remote only without the 1L Base, can run simultaneously by two operators?

Sorry for the crazy questions .  This is the first Command Control setup for me.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you want two people running trains, you need two remotes. You can either use another CAB1, or the "Legacy Lite" CAB1-L remote. Like I said, you can add remotes to the operation and still use the single command base.

For TMCC or Legacy, there is always just one command base for a layout.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

tjcruiser said:


> OK ... my turn to ask a silly question ...
> 
> What distinguishes a bell control from a whistle control, signal-wise? A whistle "command" is a DC signals of around 1 to 3 volts. What's a bell command? Is is simply a polarity issue ... one positive, and the other negative?
> 
> ...


I've wondered about this a lot myself and how does it work when both whistle and bell are used at the same time?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Rabbitman said:


> I've wondered about this a lot myself and how does it work when both whistle and bell are used at the same time?


It doesn't.


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