# Prewar 810 Derrick



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is the rehab of my new 810. From Listen to your wife thread. Post number 8


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It didn't stay like that long.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Have no idea what this is underneath the frame. It was not listed under the Olsen Page either.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Exposed.*


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

T-man, very cool, I never seen one. Can't wait to see how it turns out. great pictures as always. That's a pretty serious gear!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ohh ... this is going to be great fun watching this restoration. Eyes glued, T!

TJ


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T,

A parts list ... perhaps this might help.

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I guess it is a clamp and screw with an axle. The item is listed on ebay, Why is it there? Who knows?


----------



## newB (Feb 3, 2011)

T-Man said:


> Have no idea what this is underneath the frame. It was not listed under the Olsen Page either.


that is the clamp to hold the crane down onto the track when stationary. normally it is folded up and held by the little brass piece but when using the crane you would lower it and clamp it to the track.

i worked on one of these. make absolutely sure you replace the gear/shaft part that is captive in the lower part of the boom. mine looked fine but gave out after using the crane a few times. and replacing that gear/shaft requires dismantling the entire crane, including the boom.

when finished, you will find the crane is quite strong. mine can easily lift a prewar tin boxcar.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks, I did figure it out. I do have an 810. 1940 I think. I have the number tag in nickel.





The gear.


----------



## newB (Feb 3, 2011)

T-Man said:


> The gear.


that's it. i'd replace it if i were you.

mine looked fine but developed cracks along the shaft that eventually spread into the squared ends. after the squared ends cracked, the boom wouldn't lift as it's the squared ends that hold it up.

this part is made of lionel 'mystery metal alloy', not meant to last 70+ years.

there was a guy on ebay that was selling machined steel replacement parts, that's where i got mine. i vaguely remember it being expensive but it was worth it, a perfect replacement. i think it is part # 810-20.

i used gun blueing to darken the shiney steel replacement so it looks dark like the original.

and i have the original part as a prop in the 'machine yard' part of my layout.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

For reference, here's NewB's 810 Derrick thread ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8710

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Easy Off*

Easy Off is easy! They came out to a TJ, perfection :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

WOW, that looks like new tin! :thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The tinplate looks super shiny, T. Nice work. You've got a little gem there ... no dents, dings ... this is going to be a beauty repainted!

TJ


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks brand new, easy off is easy ain't it! The tabs look to be in excellent shape also. Can't wait to see it finished!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice find T, Alien green? :thumbsup:

No epoxy needed too. 

Maybe some custom fabricated LED work spot lights mounted on it?
A blinking strobe light on top?


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

How about a real one?


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SantaFe,

Awesome video! The soundtrack alone is well worth it ... love those steam piston / whistle / hissing sounds!!!

TJ


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> SantaFe,
> 
> Awesome video! The soundtrack alone is well worth it ... love those steam piston / whistle / hissing sounds!!!
> 
> TJ



It's awesome to see it operating in person. I just started volunteering there, and there is a slight chance that I might be helping out with the crane in a couple weeks. Depends on what's going on crew wise. I just do what they tell me to do :laugh:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I tried to watch it, but I only get a few seconds and YouTube stalls. Bummer, it does look pretty cool.


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I tried to watch it, but I only get a few seconds and YouTube stalls. Bummer, it does look pretty cool.


It did that to me too John. If you search "Greenfield Village Crane" you should be able to find a few more clips of it in operation


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Worked Ok for me ( that was about 2 hrs ago), nice video, that thing looks like a dragon. Way cool:thumbsup:


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

It was built in 1913 or 1914 for the Michigan Central RR. It could originally run off of electricity (from a 3rd rail I believe), an external steam source or air. It can also move under its own power when hooked up to an air source. Contrail removed the electric power equipment during its ownership.


Sorry to have stolen your thread T-Man, those prewar crane cars always reminded me of the one at Greenfield Village. So far the restoration is looking great.


----------



## newB (Feb 3, 2011)

sjm9911 said:


> Worked Ok for me ( that was about 2 hrs ago), nice video, that thing looks like a dragon. Way cool:thumbsup:


If you're an old movie buff, you'll see one of these operating (along with loads of steam locomotives) in a fantastic Burt Lancaster flick called 'The Train'.

Sorry to turn this lionel 810 thread into a movie thread but I just had to mention it for those too young to remember black and white movies.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The main reason we come here is for train stuff, and the T- man, in my opinion, does some of the best restorations. That's why we watch and pester him with questions ( Ok only me with the pestering, sorry) . Getting side tracked is just a way for us to show we want to see how his next project turns out. Thanks T-man, ( I've high jacked some of your threads also), we like your work, it's only a compliment! It's your threads that gave me confidence ( through your detailed pictures) to do this hobby.
Btw, What's a black and white movie?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I like the video, neat stuff. :thumbsup:

Today I cleaned up the trucks, they are blued with nickel journals. The journals are shiny again. The boom is soaking and I may dismantle it next. Most of the green is chipped.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The boom*


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Prime to start*


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like the metal is in excellent shape, this should come out really nice!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto ... super shiny tinplate. Looks like it's going to be in like-new condition!

We'll have to see what color scheme T-Man has in store!

TJ


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I do see green. 

Maybe not alien green, more like pea green.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It amazing how good it looks allready. T-man you really get the metal back to tip top shape.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Feeling Blue*

Cleaned some pieces. The trucks were blued so I touched them up.
The bottom gear plate I did blue.







Then oil and add a gear.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looking good T- man, everything looks nice. Is that the original gear? Looks too new? The trucks came out a+. Great job so far!


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I cleaned up the gear on the drill press with a wire brush. It made it easier to check for cracks. The other gear has an original finish.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)




----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

How's the paint spraying / curing outside for you, T? I'm itching to start a few springtime projects, but haven't been bold enough to test the somewhat-chilly weather for painting. Seems OK on your end?

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's going to be a work of art!


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I stay in the sun and out of the wind.  No special colors this time. Just something close to the original. I like the yellow cab but for some reason that brown was terrible. Maybe because it was flat and not a gloss.

So far I am pleased, it will look great. I only need a minor few parts. Painting is the main thing now everything else is ready.

On a Marx caboose I had some reaction between the primer and top coats. The cans probably needed more shaking. So with more shake I primed the parts and started painting. I am using a John Deere Green for the Boom. It dries slow. When temperatures are low I do use a heat gun just to take the chill off. The expansion of paint from a can, can  really drop the temperature. I have even heated parts before painting too.

Also, I plan on using screw to hold the boom together. The tabs help but I will leave them as is for ease of disassembly in the future. I just need to purchase the yellow spray next.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I added a fender washer and a spacer washer for the rope drum. just to keep the rope aligned. The washer were sanded blued and oiled, The spacer had to be notched and the fender washer was drilled through.

Untested, we will have to see if it works.


----------



## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Looking great T-man. What did you use for the rope/wire? I have a 2460 crane that I think needs a more 'realistic' cable.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Hope the crank works good, it looks like it should! I liked the original paint colors too. Fine job! Btw, everytime I paint any thing outside it turns into a disaster. Tree decides to drop pollen that day, high winds unexpectedly turn my project into sandpaper, etc.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This roll was at Michaels or AC Moore. 






Had a disaster with the spray. I lost the nozzle but found it later.
Always use the nozzle. 





The green is drying nicely.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The green boom parts look great.

I did a prewar yellow gondola a while back. Boy, yellow is tough battle ... very poor coverage, with lots of light coats required. I know you had a nozzle issue, but even with a good nozzle, I'm wondering if you find the spray yellow a chore for coverage?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

T-man, only good news is you know how to fix it! Tj yellow is hard, but I have no doubt this one will end up perfect.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It is harder with a dark primer. Tomorrow I will sand it and try again. I will keep spraying until it I is done or looks so bad I will have to strip it again. The texture of the cab may be a problem.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I thought I was the only one who keeps respraying stuff, saying to myself I can even that out!


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Washer Idea a Wash*

The cable drum washer idea caused an interference with the boom loop. I would of lost considerable down angle so I scrapped the idea.

Paint war continues. I may wait for more curing before any more attempts. I got lumps in some places. Geesh. I am now sanding away.



The Boom is giving me a lift. I added washers as spacers for the pulleys and used brass tubing for spacing with the frame screws









I used two elastics to hold the plates while I fitted all the gears and slots into place. It helped.



The green is working out. John Deere green, I gave no trouble except it is slow to dry. It is a very durable paint. The red is Wallmart, I like it because it is not too bright. The yellow is Krylon Bright yellow, not too strong but sunny. You will have to wait until I am done to see them together.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I like the green. The boom looks great, now just get that yellow to cooperate!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ahh ... I see what you're doing with the screws. I thought you were going to screw side-to-side. But you're going top-to-bottom, essentially clamping the transverse plates together, with their tabs (unbent) holding the side-to-side alignment.

Clever!

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The answer shocking pink.*

I lost this post once, I hit the x in the tab button. A dumb windows feature to have, tabs are suppose to be used . Vent, I feel better now.

TJ I thought it was a worthwhile modification.

OK the paint problem, new can, thin paint and runs easily. Even reacts with primer. Probably needs more shaking , done. The solution is to introduce a second topcoat, a well used can. Ah yes, Ballerina Pink. :laugh: It worked on the two flat pieces. The yellow sprayed better and I hope that will improve when I do the cab. SO I sanded, lightly primed with Wallmart light grey, pink then yellow. They dried fast under an hour.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Smart move on the screw-access for the boom, T ... especially with hints that the boom gear may need service long down the road.

I mentioned that I struggled with a yellow, too. Must be a hard pigmnet for paint manufacturers, in general. Your recoat (over pink) looks much better. And no one will be the wiser!

TJ


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm liking the pink better then the yellow, maybe a girls version of the Crain? Who knows maybe it will catch on this time! 
T-man glad the paint is finally working out! I read somewhere that some primers will react badly with others. Spraying it over a lighter color was smart thinking!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You would have had no problems if you used Alien yellow, to go with the Alien green boom. 

Looking nice T man. :thumbsup:


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Step back,*

Strip down again.




Light coat of primer



More Pink, My yellow is getting low so this still helps.



One side at a time. The light coats dried fast today.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Base and Boom*

I worked on the frame.



I installed green nuts on the boom.






Those tabs are nasty, heavy duty. I got them to fit and did the least possible to bend them again.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Looking nice, T. Tough progress with that yellow, though ... such thin coverage inherent in yellow.

Question -- What holds the left and right mechanism sideplates (the shiny ones) in place? Is it the bracket that bridges across the top? Were the plates originally peened on (sort of) to those flat-bar cross pieces, much like a motor's sideplates would be?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The plates were not peened to the cross members. Only the top bar holds them in and each of the cross members are screwed to a bottom plate from the underside. I am getting close to these connections and was trial fitting them today. I want to do one more coat of yellow tomorrow. Almost there.:thumbsup:


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Coming along good now, sometimes a fresh start is needed to achieve perfection. It's looking perfect now! I painted a car yellow once, I swear it took 10 coats and you could still see through it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Let's see that baby roll, looks like you're closing in on the finish line!


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Trucked up*

I have boxed end couplers and was wondering what other members had. On the end shown there is a swivel pin attached to the frame. On the front truck the couplers is attached to a tongue on the truck by a swivel pin. What do you have?????


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Stating the obvoius, perhaps, but early (1930) 810's had latch couplers. Later ones (mid '30's) had the box couplers.

TJ


----------



## newB (Feb 3, 2011)

I have an early 810 with early paint scheme, aluminum knurled knobs, and latch couplers.

on mine, the mounting tabs on each of the latch couplers goes in slotted holes, one at the front and one at the rear of the chassis. looking at one of your previous pictures, it looks like your chassis only has one of these holes?

also on mine the trucks look a little different than yours. both my front and rear trucks are exactly the same and do not have any way to mount a coupler on them.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Non jointed side.





Jointed


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Catastrophic Cab*



After many attempts I sanded and painted. The area reduced to this. 



Added windows



That bottom screw needed to go through both pieces.




A little different from before.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Done at last.*











Up



Down


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The before*


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bravo, T-Man ... that looks superb! Amazing job on the shiny metal work ... the wheels, journals, windows, etc.

The rod that sticks out back, bottom-left ... is that the mechanism for the cab rotation? Are you missing a control wheel for that?

Great work!

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*AFter two weeks*

Yes, I need another wheel, and a hook. Also the coupling hook for the back.
The tallow is just what I wanted for color, too bad it gave me a hard time. I am wondering if the metal was really clean. I scrubbed with soap and water to clean the easy off. I guess it wasn't enough. Maybe I should of sprayed without primer and wipe it off wet. Then prime. It does look great!


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

T-man, stellar job. If you didn't take pictures I wouldn't have believed that was the same rig. Tj the shiny bits do pop don't they! I guess I'm not the only admirer, as you got two guys down by the track that can't seem to take there eyes off it. Nice job I hope it serves you well!


----------



## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Very nice job! Looks like it's fresh from the factory.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks, it's one example where a paint job can make a difference.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Excellent work! Just needs a road name now.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I didn't like the shiny plates in other pictures but it has grown on me. It gives contrast to the black. I can use the plates to hang a magnetic sign of my choice.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's your new logo.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*If you insist.*


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice, T-man! Are the decals up for sale? And does Grj get a cut? It looks great, and now has an epic story behind it! As finished, I think it's an A+.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

A little Mod Podge on printed paper on a magnetic card.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice!

Gotta love the many uses of magnetic cards!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'll have to start collecting magnetic cards, that's a really cool use.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You can buy sticky-faced, business-card-size magnets, too ...

http://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Busi...3519&sr=8-10&keywords=magnetic+business+cards

Not free, but the sticky-face is nice.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ is the starter for this idea. This was quick and easy. I should use photo paper. Being magnetic is a nice feature.


----------



## prr2818 (Apr 26, 2013)

Great Job and a great tutorial!

Thanks for showing us the work.

Dennis
PRR2818
Piscataway, NJ


----------



## NewTexan (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for this thread, very useful!


----------



## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

T-Man,

That is one beautiful restoration! Love the color choices, 

Just one tip for all who plan on painting light colors use a white or silver base depending on what look you're after, The white will brighten the color while silver gives an anodized look.


----------

