# 336 Challenger



## Flyer Rudy (Mar 12, 2014)

Hi. I have an American Flyer 336 Challenger engine. Looks new, runs great, everything works except that I haven't found the whistle switch/button. Problem I am having is that on the bends it constantly de-rails, at any speed. It will not stay on tract except on the straight runs. Any suggestions on correcting this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

I'd watch really close as it works through a corner. Pay very close attention to the leading and trailing truck, tender drawbar, etc. Does it come off front first or is the rear being pushed off? If it's only one particular curve, check the rails for proper gauge, irregularities. Had an issue with a leading truck cause issues because it wasn't following the curve properly. 

Carl


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## Flyer Rudy (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks Carl. I thought that perhaps that the front and rear trucks might be the problem. Thought that because the drive wheels were so many that there might be a problem there. I will watch the trucks more carefully. Is there a remedy if they are not operating correctly. Thanks again for the info.


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

FWIW: My 2 cents:

Having dealt with A/F Northerns for a while I found the wheel(all wheels) width is the
most important thing to watch for derailments. Use the "dime" method to check the
measurement. Depending on the track used; the newer track(s-trak and fastrak) are
rarely bad. The older A/F track is more likely to be off tolerance is some cases. The track
must be connected tight to make sure the radius does not change. Even a little bit of
a gap could be causing the problem. Let us know what you find. Larry


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Northerns are probably the longest engines that can still negotiate the 20" radius track Flyer made in its heyday. But, as others have stated, the track must be the correct width and the wheels must be exactly on gauge -- the "dime method" mentioned is the width between the rear sides of the wheels on one axle equaling the diameter of a dime. You should be able to just fit a dime snugly between the wheels when it is correct. If the problem occurs on track other than the old Flyer track, there may be another issue to check.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Flyer Rudy said:


> Hi. I have an American Flyer 336 Challenger engine. Looks new, runs great, everything works except that I haven't found the whistle switch/button. Problem I am having is that on the bends it constantly de-rails, at any speed. It will not stay on tract except on the straight runs. Any suggestions on correcting this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Not sure if you're looking for a switch or button on the engine, but if you are, there is none. You have to have a generator tube, and base for the whistle to work. One good indication if the whistle is in working condition is you'll hear a sound coming from the tender as you run the loco. As far as the de-railment issue, make sure your tracks are joined correctly, and without a bind. These engines as well as others can be temperamental. I have a K335 and a 336, and I have zero problems with them except for excessive speed in the curves,lol. I would check your wheel spacing, as well as the rail spacing at the de-railment... And welcome to the forum...


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## Flyer Rudy (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for all the helpful replies concerning my problem with my K336 derailing. While checking "with the dime" I found one of the rear drive wheels to be defective. The outer wheel separated from the "white" part of the entire wheel. I should replace the wheels in entirety. The opposite rear wheel also needs a new tire as the old one is chewed up. I have never done either task. Suggestions on the complexity of doing this? By the way the front and rear trucks are okay. I feel that a lot of the problem is stemming from the rear drive wheels.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I have never done this either, but hope to learn the experience myself sometime in the future. My recommendation is to seek out Flyernut in this group who seems to be nothing less than a miracle worker like Scotty on the Enterprise. My guess is he can do the job for you and would only charge for parts and postage, maybe not even that, cuz he's a good guy. Try searching his name and PM him.


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Flyer Rudy said:


> Thanks for all the helpful replies concerning my problem with my K336 derailing. While checking "with the dime" I found one of the rear drive wheels to be defective. The outer wheel separated from the "white" part of the entire wheel. I should replace the wheels in entirety. The opposite rear wheel also needs a new tire as the old one is chewed up. I have never done either task. Suggestions on the complexity of doing this? By the way the front and rear trucks are okay. I feel that a lot of the problem is stemming from the rear drive wheels.


F/R> Rather for us to go step by step go Port Lines Hobbies repar clinic tips. Look up "Repairing/Rebuilding Steam-Engine Drive Wheels". This will get you to1st base. Then you can ask us all the perticulars.Larry


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I have never done this either, but hope to learn the experience myself sometime in the future. My recommendation is to seek out Flyernut in this group who seems to be nothing less than a miracle worker like Scotty on the Enterprise. My guess is he can do the job for you and would only charge for parts and postage, maybe not even that, cuz he's a good guy. Try searching his name and PM him.


Will you stop it,lol!!! I have done this repair before.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Flyer Rudy said:


> Thanks for all the helpful replies concerning my problem with my K336 derailing. While checking "with the dime" I found one of the rear drive wheels to be defective. The outer wheel separated from the "white" part of the entire wheel. I should replace the wheels in entirety. The opposite rear wheel also needs a new tire as the old one is chewed up. I have never done either task. Suggestions on the complexity of doing this? By the way the front and rear trucks are okay. I feel that a lot of the problem is stemming from the rear drive wheels.


I had the EXACT same problem with my K335, i.e. the white insulator coming loose from the rim. Many people here on the forum have also had the same problem, as well as using the same "fix". Buy some CA glue, available at a hobby shop, (also known as instant glue), and using a toothpick, spread the adhesive all around the white insulator, making sure the area is free of oils/grease, etc. Work quickly. After applying the glue, use 2 screwdrivers to press the wheel rim back unto the white insulator squarely. Try a dry run first so you know what to do. That's all there is to it. If you go the replacement route, you'll have to find some NOS wheels to replace the worn out ones. Even if the rubber "tires" are in bad shape, they'll still run ok. I had the good fortune of finding 2 NOS replacements for my 336. The old ones were not that bad, but I got the entire train set for a song, so I put some money into it. If you do want to replace the wheels, they must be re-quartered, a job I leave to the pros, especially on a Northern. The more wheels to quarter, the trickier it can be, and that 336 is an expensive and beautiful engine, and deserves to have things done right on her. I wouldn't attempt the quartering. My local shop will charge about $10-15 bucks to do it, but it's done right. I believe I kept the old rims when my shop replaced them with the NOS ones, and if I have them, you are welcome to them. They are chewed up a bit, but the pro told me he has seen worse ones and they were ok. I can also check with the shop I found the NOS ones and see if they have anymore. Let me know.


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

What happened to me today applies to this thread. Had my 336 running counter clockwise on my little layout pulling 7 heavyweights passenger cars. Track is S-Trax and train was
running just as perfect one could get. I decided to clean the wheels on heavyweights and thought while cars are off I would turn the train around to run clockwise. OK-Simple enought right---Wrong; it would derail on one corner everytime. I knew train was adjusted correct so
I set my sights on the track. Sure enough pulled one S-Trax curve out and discovered one of the rails on the end was a little loose. (Seperated from the one of the ties) Put another curve in and it ran perfect. Moral of the story--Even the newer track can go bad. Larry


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

llskis said:


> What happened to me today applies to this thread. Had my 336 running counter clockwise on my little layout pulling 7 heavyweights passenger cars. Track is S-Trax and train was
> running just as perfect one could get. I decided to clean the wheels on heavyweights and thought while cars are off I would turn the train around to run clockwise. OK-Simple enought right---Wrong; it would derail on one corner everytime. I knew train was adjusted correct so
> I set my sights on the track. Sure enough pulled one S-Trax curve out and discovered one of the rails on the end was a little loose. (Seperated from the one of the ties) Put another curve in and it ran perfect. Morel of the story--Even the newer track can go bad. Larry
> 
> ...


Always be vigilant. Even if it's new, something could be wrong with it...


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