# Question/Observation on the A/F Northern Steamer



## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

I have several Northern 4-8-4 engines. They range from the late 40's to the mid 50's (No
5 diget ones) They are all very nice engines in the mint to very good range. Here is my
observation on them having used them for years: It seems they are very "individual" engines;that is they like to run different then the other ones. Some would rather run clock-wise; some counter clock-wise. It seems everyone is unique in that they are more prone to derail in certain directions. Don 't get me wrong in that they don't deraill all the time but
just more often then the others pulling the same load around the same layout with 20" radius track. Has anybody notices this with their engines?? My guess that the tolerance in making these units varied from one to other. Larry:dunno: P.S. Like to have some comments on this.


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## Strummer (Jan 6, 2013)

The only comment I could make is that a 20" radius curve seems awfully tight for such a large engine...

Mark in Oregon


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Strummer said:


> The only comment I could make is that a 20" radius curve seems awfully tight for such a large engine...
> 
> Mark in Oregon


Mark: Yes; you are correct; very tight curve. Although tight is was still engineered by the
factory to run that radius. Larry


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Quite a few of my steamers do the same exact thing. Some like clock-wise, others like counter-clockwise. Who knows??


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## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting observation, I am still building my new home layout and haven't spent that much time running trains on my old layout.

However I have a 293 that runs for hours on our club layout, and it definitely has it's preference on those rails. In one direction it can derail every time, turn it around and no problem at all. I think it is the track, but haven't really tried to prove it.

Aflyer


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## Magne-rail (Oct 4, 2013)

I never had a problem with my northern's as long as the track is level and straight and tight and the curve with a very slight bank on the outer rail and screwed down. If not you will have problems on the original Flyer track with the 4-8-4 Locs . As far as running good in one direction then the other, it could be bad brushes, one shorter than the other I've had that problem before. Also, make sure you don't have a plastic insulator (wheel) loose that will cause a short and slow you train down on the curves.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

If the radius is suspected as the problem, try inserting half straights between each curve section to somewhat "enhance" the radius. Then see if the derailing continues.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Or, if you have them, try the larger 27" radius curve sections.


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the comments. When dealing with precious space on a 4 X 8 ft. layout one 
can not insert 1/2 tracks at will. These engines where designed to run on the A/F radius
track. Can't be the brushes since I have inspected them and these engines are in "mint"
to excellant shape. eg. no loose wheels, bad bushings and etc. For right now I'll stick with
my orginal statement. When these engines where built they where not built with precision
and so the final product was varied somewhat. These where toys don't forget not BMW's.
Still all and all A/F made a fine product for being in the 40's/50's w/o computers and precision measuring devices. Larry:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

You might check the wheel spacing between wheel sets to be sure they are all the same width. One member here suggests that a dime inserted between the rear flanges is exactly the correct spacing.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

llskis said:


> Thanks for all the comments. When dealing with precious space on a 4 X 8 ft. layout one
> can not insert 1/2 tracks at will. These engines where designed to run on the A/F radius
> track. Can't be the brushes since I have inspected them and these engines are in "mint"
> to excellant shape. eg. no loose wheels, bad bushings and etc. For right now I'll stick with
> ...


They might be toys, but they also are fine examples of a precision toy. If you don't have your wheel spacing correct, by just a few thousands, expect problems. If your quartering is off just a wee bit, expect bent side rods and binding. If your coupler weights are off just a tad, expect uncoupling on your turnouts. I'm sure they used go/no go gauges in their quality inspections. If they were not precision toys, they would not have passed the test of time in such robust condition.It's pretty amazing when you can take a 60 year old toy that hasn't run in decades, and simply add power to it and it will run.. That's precision. Back to the track problem, most problems can be associated with poor track fitment between sections, no feeder lines, or track that is out of tolerance due to a bend/bent rail. The 4-8-4's were designed to run on original flyer radius track, and they're still making 4-8-4's in s scale to run on original flyer track, using the old flyer prints.. ( I have my eyes on one in fact).


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

flyernut said:


> They might be toys, but they also are fine examples of a precision toy. If you don't have your wheel spacing correct, by just a few thousands, expect problems.
> 
> flyernut: Nice comments and agree. Do you know(or anybody else) the "official" wheel spacing (width) specifications from the factory? I rather use a caliper then a "dime" Larry
> 
> All my tracks are either S-Trax or Fastrak; both a very precision track; light years ahead of the old A/F track.IMHO


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

You might check the NASG website. Perhaps they have the correct dimension...

http://www.nasg.org/index.html


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Here's another site that might help...

http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sinfo.html


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

....and another....

http://www.understandingsscale.com/


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

llskis said:


> flyernut said:
> 
> 
> > They might be toys, but they also are fine examples of a precision toy. If you don't have your wheel spacing correct, by just a few thousands, expect problems.
> ...


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I see NBF has got EVERYONE'S back here!!! Tanks....


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