# Mysterious voltage problems and stuff



## G1techyguy (Jun 19, 2008)

ok, thanks. Im not gonna tell you if I'm on crack or not:cheeky4:
Now, I'm prolly gonna pester the snot out of you guys, but I have to know the answers to my questions,....here is my next one....or two
so I've got my layout 98% complete, i have no open ended tracks, there are all connected, why is it that my loco goes great on some places but then slows down in others?...ive checked all, and i mean all connections, I've even soldered them,...ALL of them, I've cleaned the rails with 220 sandpaper, i even checked the voltage, its 24.75 volts, now it does drop to 19.89 volts when the loco is on the rail, I havent checked the amps yet, not quite sure how to set up my meter, but I'll figure it out. Now I havent cleaned the wheels on the loco, I prolly should, but how do I do that,..take it apart or use a solvent cleaner?
My next question is how in the name of time do you stop the frigging loco from derailing when it goes thru a turnout or 'y'?...Does direction and position factor in to this?
Thats all for now, until my brain comes up with some more for you guys.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Your derailment issue is either the gaging of the wheels or the track or both. An NMRA standards gauge is a must have tool to help find the problem areas. Your power issues probably go back to the pack. Is it old or under rated? 24 volts is also pretty high for HO, 16v being more normal.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Feed the Need. Distance is Resistance.*

Large Layouts need more than one feed. Your slow down points are farthest from your power supply. Just add a few power feeds to the track at the far ends. Distance is resistance. Larger wattage transformers run larger layouts. If you read up on layout wire diagrams you will see this. Thanks for asking.

I'd be interested in you power supply.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Watts your power*

24 volts sounds like two ac transformrs out of phase. You posted in HO. Is it Lionel O scale.? Motors usually don't last on 24 volts usually 16 to 18 max.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

T-Man said:


> 24 volts sounds like two ac transformrs out of phase. You posted in HO. Is it Lionel O scale.? Motors usually don't last on 24 volts usually 16 to 18 max.


He is definitely talking about HO scale, judging by his profile and his other thread... I do agree though, something about your transformer(s) is very odd :sly:


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## G1techyguy (Jun 19, 2008)

*Mystery voltage*

WOW! Thanks for all the replies, you guys are great! I will check on the wheel gage thing and DEFINATLEY purchase one of those gauge tools, Thanks. As for my power supply I'm using whatever came with my NCE power cab. (http://www.ncedcc.com/ncetest/nce2.htm )<---Go there to see it. Model P114. about 3/4 way down the page).Doesn't make sense does it?, A 13 VAC transformer putting out 24 VAC, this is too much eh? Hmmmmm,...Would amperage be my problem? I haven't figured out how to check it yet, I'm assuming you just hook it between the rails and your power wire.
So if I run more wires to my furthest points, my train will not go slow on these areas?

Thanks Trev


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Your output is 13.5 DC Your input is 120 v AC. Maybe it has a switch for 220/240 check it. Being DCC check all your instructions. If you have the 24v output and verified. Call the company for customer service. Do your engines have a lot of rail time with that set up . If so maybe its normal. You could be running two phases one Ultra high frrequences are not noticed by motors. I find the systems complicated. That power pack may only power the electonics. I am no expert just trying to point you in the right direction. You have us interested so please let us know.

The extra power lines work for conventional setups., because the transformer regulates power to the track. DCC Max power is fed continuosly and the train regulates it's power input. From what I have figured out.


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## G1techyguy (Jun 19, 2008)

*Voltage*

Thanks T-Man, I will try all of your suggestions. I'm not sure what you mean when you say I am running two phases one ultra high frequences, do you mean UHF signals? I only have the one transformer, and I don't know what you mean when you say that the power pack may only run the electronics, this really baffles me, I am somewhat of a smart guy and understand rectifiers and AC and DC voltage and have dealt with alot of electrical stuff, wired my house completly, wired all my electronic equipment(TV, VCR, DVD, Amplifire/reciever and all speakers) without the instructons. I'm going to have to start all over and read the instructions, check everything again.
I will let you know what I find out, it will take me a few days, so be patient, I WILL let you know as SOON as i find anything.

You guys are a great help, THANKS 4 everything!!

Take care
Trev


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Basically an uneducated guess. I ramble on so just ignore the jargon. 

Your power supply doesn't go directly to the track with DCC It goes to a black box that goes to the track. The basic cab pro uses the 515 AC power pack but you have the 419 DC.

Ho uses AC because all power for trains and accessories come from the track.
I found that under "What is DCC"

I read a little from the sight you sent. We really need to know your components. The easiest is reading directions. One section did mention a 24 volt DC power supply.

My first impression was that it took a lot of equipment to run their wired example.

Just give me throttle, an engine, and green lights on the track.


I like your avatar G1Techyguy:thumbsup:


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## G1techyguy (Jun 19, 2008)

Hey guys.
Im back, I havent had much time to check everything, what with work and all, we've been really busy, anywho, I did get one of those HO gauges, its VERY useful, havent quite figured out all the angles of it tho.
Does the pro cab have some kind of step transformer? I'm still getting 24 VAC on the track, would that affect the loco's running,...too much voltage for the motor? I changed the wheels and cleaned all the track, even sanded the wheels, havent run any extra wires tho,...I get 24.76 VAC at ANY point on the track(anywhere I check, even the furthest point),..now, one thing i do have is a unfinished loop, not reverse, just a place where I can go around the main line and around to another place on the main line on the other side of the layout, now I wouldnt think that having this not connected would be a problem, but could it be?
Help, I'm losing my little mind!!!!

Trev
:cAnada:


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

G1techyguy said:


> now, one thing i do have is a unfinished loop, not reverse, just a place where I can go around the main line and around to another place on the main line on the other side of the layout, now I wouldnt think that having this not connected would be a problem, but could it be?


It should not be a problem... Think of it like having a dead end track in a freight yard, that does not create a problem...

As far as your voltage problem, I wish I could help... Sadly though I am not too savvy about electric stuff, although I need to change that


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I think it's time to go with customer support. It's their product they should know . We're interested and from looking at the site I can't tell.


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## rdw283 (Jul 17, 2008)

* DCC Units*

I use Digitrax but I am guessing they all were built to be calibrated to the correct voltage you intend to run your trains on. WHen you open any DCS or DB unit from Digitrax you will find a adjustment pot that you can turn with a Phillips screw driver. Turning it to the right causes an increase in voltage (V) and turning it left decreases (V). Find if your unit has this option by looking in the manual or contacting NCE and asking them about it. Both my DCS100 and DCS200's on my layout can be adjusted to 26Vac at the rails. I have to run them at 19.3Vac due to the fact one of my DCS200s has a bad adjustment pot and that is as low as I can achieve with that unit. 

*Voltage Drops*
Your voltage drops (vd) is a common problem due to voltage over the distance of the gauge of wire your using and how often you have place feeder wires to your rails. What gauge bus wire and feeders really depends on the properties of your tracks material the rails are made from. Peco, Micro Engineering, Rail Craft and Shinohara track uses mostly nickle silver making it a great conductor and not needing many feeder wires to the rail. Atlas, Model Power, old Tyco track use a lot of filler materials to cut down on production cost. By doing this they take away the conductive properties leaving you to have to install more feeders along your track. I always use no less than two sets of feeders to my section of track no matter how small. 

*About Closing an Oval with DCC* 
You don't want to make a circle of track without insulators on the rails. This is one of the biggest no no's in the DCC world. When you do this you inherit some big noise problems and a lot of undesired frequency problems. Dividing your oval into two sections by cutting it in half will make your system run and act way better. Having a circle of wire can make AC waves cancel each other out or they can amplify the wave and cause higher than expected spikes in your system. You also created yourself a nice antenna that will send and receive noise and that is bad. You also want to do this for your bus wire as well. Have your DCC unit in the center of your layout and run a sets of wires in each direction. Don't join them or you will create that loop and you don't want that. Some won't have problems if this happens but some will pull their hair out dealing with the problems. It is just better not to go there in the first place.

Hope this helps


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## G1techyguy (Jun 19, 2008)

*
Thanks for all your help and suggestions rdw283, I will try them all out, havent had time yet, I'm quite busy with work and my house. I'll let you know how I make out.
I have contacted the company via email, they havent responded yet, again, I'll let you know.


Thanks again
Trev
*


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## CoolRuehle (Aug 5, 2008)

*DCC Wiki*

Go here . . . . study hard (smart):

http://www.dccwiki.com/Main_Page

Then take the test (fix your layout). There are some basic things you should know and they are covered in this Wiki.

Run a GOogle search for "DCC Model Railroad" and you'll find a TON of stuff as well.

--jon


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## Stan kolak (Dec 4, 2007)

24VAC is a voltage problem for HO engines. You can burn out the engine. 0-16 volts Direct current is the spec. I build my own simple DC PS's. Take engine off layout. Turn on PS to max. Check with a voltmeter, every two feet along the tracks. It should read the same. Furtherest point may be low, thus an extra feed line is needed. If still reading 24 volts alternating current, rectifier inside PS is gone, shorted. Ampere draw is 100 to 200 milliamps on engines. A"mtr won't read if engine is stopped.


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## Stan kolak (Dec 4, 2007)

*voltage problems*

According to a thread here, A DCC power pack supplies 24VAC to the tracks. Remove it and put in a standard DC power pack. Remember to connect to the DC output. The Accessory terminals are 16VAC for lights etc. This simple DCPS should let you know if the engine is running OK, voltage thru out the whole track assembly. A non-DCC wired engine would be needed to check out the track continunity and voltage drop around the loop.


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