# AF 21160 rebuild questions



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I am just starting in a upward learning curve so I am asking for help and/or suggestions. I won a AF 21160 on EBay. I was very happy with the cosmetics and the shell cleaned up quite well. The only problem that I initially saw was a broken wire on a brush cap. But as I looked a little deeper, I found that the plastic cap that holds the brushes and the armature was broken. I have searched for a replacement but to no avail. Question: The 21160 is a June 1960 mode. are motors parts from that same era interchangeable? If so, I will buy a parts engine to cannibalize in order to get that part.:dunno:
Also, where can I find a parts breakdown and exploded view? 
Thanks!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is an exploded view for your loco.

http://www.hobbysurplus.com/xviews/300s5digHSS.asp

Your broken piece is called a brush bracket. You are lucky, many engines used the same part number. Part # is XA9565A.

You need to get you a 302 or 302AC for a parts engine. That would also get you the choo choo and smoke unit you want. The brush cap or bracket will work.

I bought me a parts engine for my 282. I needed an armature. Got the parts engine and unscrewed the screws for brush bracket and it cracked into about 5 pieces. The bracket would have worked for you. Many engines use that same bracket. So I do not have an extra brush bracket, also called a brush cap. Someone here might have one.

When I reinstall a brush bracket now I do not tighten the screws as tight as I can. Afraid it will crack.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have seen that brush bracket on ebay for around 3 bucks. The parts engine I bought was
18.95. It was called a powered chassis. Everything except a body. Seller said it ran. I never tried to run it. I just started robbing parts. Got the armature from it and that fixed my 282, runs great now, I got a grease pan I was missing, and got the correct screw for drawbar for tender to loco. It did not have choo choo and smoke unit.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

5 digit Atlantic's can be finicky.I have only 1, and that's enough for me. As suggested you may want to change out the entire chassis, but remember, you'll also have to change the tender guts too.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

mopac is correct, the XA9565-A brush bracket was common to many flyer engines. Shouldn't be to hard to come by. Port Lines carries some, give Doug a call and explain what your looking for, he probably has it. The only problem with a used one is it may be broken as mopac found out upon disassembly. Since its bakelite JB weld might be an option for mending. It works good on Bakelite transformer cases that are cracked.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I would put the 21160 on the shelf and get a good running 303 if it is a knuckle coupler Atlantic you want. If it is the best looking Atlantic then wait for a 302 with the 4 piece engine castings and wire handrails. I think the 21160 shell can be swapped on to the 303 chassis if desired.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

*Thanks!*

I appreciate all the good advice given. As I stated, I am just starting a AF learning curve. My other layout is N Scale and it is getting way too difficult to work on. S Scale is about right and it is the kind that I had as a boy about 1946. Great memories! Again *Thanks* all!


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> I would put the 21160 on the shelf and get a good running 303 if it is a knuckle coupler Atlantic you want. If it is the best looking Atlantic then wait for a 302 with the 4 piece engine castings and wire handrails. I think the 21160 shell can be swapped on to the 303 chassis if desired.


Are all 302's 4 piece engine castings?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Are all 302's 4 piece engine castings?


No. There's the 4-piece 302, die-cast loco with sheet metal tender, the bake-like, (plastic) 302 with the same material used in the tender, and then there's the 302AC, die-cast metal with sheet metal tender... The 4-piece 302 has all the pretty working linkages and metal hand-rails.


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## flyguy55 (Apr 20, 2015)

If interested here is a working 302 chassis you can use for parts or with a little clean up run it.This was a five wire chassis but was rewired to 4 wire.It runs and smokes and has good brush bracket.It is missing smoke tube could probably use new brushes and springs and one wheel has a chipped insulator(plastic whitewall).You can have it for $20 shipped...


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Is this yours Flyguy? Also, why 4 or 5 wire?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Is this yours Flyguy? Also, why 4 or 5 wire?


For what it's worth, this gentleman offering the chassis is a stand-up guy, I've bought from him before many times at local train shows.... Hope to see you at Batavia Flyguy!!!!


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## flyguy55 (Apr 20, 2015)

Yes flyernut I will be at Batavia see ya there.4 wire vs 5 wire.Some later flyer engines were wired with 5 wires providing more direct current to the smoke unit.The female plug on the back of the engine had a red paint dot to identify it as 5 wire and a soldered 5th wire to the smoke unit.The configuration of wire leads from the field and brush holders is different in 4 and 5 wire plugs.This 302 was originally a 5 wire unit but the previous owner configured to 4 wire.It does run and smoke but could use a dose of TLC......


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, that is a good price for the powered chassis. I have bought stuff from flyguy55 also. Just my suggestion - buy that and put your 21160 shell on it, service it first, and
you are ready to go. Choo choo, smoke, and a running motor. The 5th wire is to keep
headlight on and smoke unit running when in the neutral cycle. Not a big deal in my books. The plug is wired differently, I do not know if 21160 is 4 or 5 wire. If your 21160
is a 4 wire, your tender should just plug in this chassis. Easy peasy. Easy is good.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Flyguy55 said the chassis needs a smoke tube. It is a tube that screws into smoke unit.
It directs smoke up and out the smoke stack of the shell. It also helps to get the smoke fluid into smoker. I needed one for my old flyer. It was missing. Cramden sent me one at no charge. I will pay that gesture forward now. If you get that chassis I will send you one
at no charge. I bought a lot of 6 of them and do not need all of them. I can spare one.
They are plastic and should be removed before removing shell or installing shell. You 
can break them. One end of tube is threaded and other end has slots for a small flat screw driver to screw into smoke unit.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

flyguy55 said:


> If interested here is a working 302 chassis you can use for parts or with a little clean up run it.This was a five wire chassis but was rewired to 4 wire.It runs and smokes and has good brush bracket.It is missing smoke tube could probably use new brushes and springs and one wheel has a chipped insulator(plastic whitewall).You can have it for $20 shipped...


If this is your sell, I will take it. Is PayPal ok? Or do you prefer another way? Thanks!


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Broke, that is a good price for the powered chassis. I have bought stuff from flyguy55 also. Just my suggestion - buy that and put your 21160 shell on it, service it first, and
> you are ready to go. Choo choo, smoke, and a running motor. The 5th wire is to keep
> headlight on and smoke unit running when in the neutral cycle. Not a big deal in my books. The plug is wired differently, I do not know if 21160 is 4 or 5 wire. If your 21160
> is a 4 wire, your tender should just plug in this chassis. Easy peasy. Easy is good.


Gotta be careful here. The reverse unit is in the boiler on a 21160. If the chassis is swapped out, you'll need to change the tender also as the e-unit is in the tender for a 302 chassis. Better off just buying a complete 303, and swapping out the boiler shell, that is if you want a 21160 numbered shell.


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## flyguy55 (Apr 20, 2015)

flyernut is correct if your 21160 is a 5 wire and like i mentioned you can tell by the red paint dot and soldered wire on the female plug of your 21160 you would have to rewire this chassis back to 5 wire as the reverse unit will not operate.......My best suggestion is why not buy a running working complete plastic boiler 302 or 302 AC and remove or paint out the engine # and renumber it as a 21160.A lot easier and probably cheaper.These engine sell relatively cheap on the 'bay......


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I doubt his 21160 is a 5 wire. He does not have smoke and maybe no headlight.

Just reread flyernut's post. If Broke has reverse unit in boiler then that chassis would
not be a plug and go. He would need a different tender. If that is the case then flyguy55
is right. Just buy a complete 302. You could move your shell to a 302. Here is what I would do. Buy a complete running 302. You will have choo choo and smoke. Then get you a brush bracket for 21160 and have 2 AF running steam engines.
You can never have too many locomotives. LOL.

Broke, if your reverse unit is in the boiler forget putting in choo choo and smoke, no room. Leave 21160 the way it is and buy a 302. I have a plastic 302 and a metal 302AC. Each was 29.99 plus shipping.

Get a 302. It will run on DC or AC.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

As AmFlyer and flyernut mentioned, and I think I brought it up in the post about the smoke unit the 303 Atlantic is going to be your best alternative. You can the swap boilers if you prefer the 21160. Correct me if I'm wrong but your 21160 should have a slide switch on the boiler rear. That is a manual reverse switch that changes polarity to reverse the engine. There is no remote reverse unit in the engine or the tender. There is no wires coming from the tender, the engine has a 2 wire plug that plugs into the front of your tender. In order to put choo choo,smoke, reverse, and a headlamp in my opinion is way too much work and expense. The other option is a 302 and swap the link with a knuckle that has been mentioned. Of course the choice is yours. We are only trying to give you the best options. Hope this helps.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I appreciate all of the suggestions. I have a 303AC coming and I bought the chassis from FlyGuy55. I don't have a AF AC transformer. So I think that the 303AC will just be for parts (I don't know the working status of it at this time) Maybe the 303AC will run on DC?
So at this time, my 21160 is sitting pretty on a display shelf. :smilie_daumenneg:Sorry, For some reason this photo is upside down. I have deleted and rotated it but it is still wrong. I am getting old and my mind is not working too good. I will give up tonight and try to figure out why in the morning.:dunno::laugh:


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> View attachment 357234
> I appreciate all of the suggestions. I have a 303AC coming and I bought the chassis from FlyGuy55. I don't have a AF AC transformer. So I think that the 303AC will just be for parts (I don't know the working status of it at this time) Maybe the 303AC will run on DC?
> So at this time, my 21160 is sitting pretty on a display shelf. :smilie_daumenneg:Sorry, For some reason this photo is upside down. I have deleted and rotated it but it is still wrong. I am getting old and my mind is not working too good. I will give up tonight and try to figure out why in the morning.:dunno::laugh:


The display looks very nice. The 303 will run on either AC or DC. Don't part it out until you try running it.


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