# New L-shaped Layout Suggestions needed



## Norm

I am starting a new L-shaped layout, after about a 25 year absence.
The new layout will be made up by combining a 5' X 10' leg with a 5' X 8' leg.
I want to have an older style toy-train layout, with most of the older Lionel accessories. 
Does anybody have any ideas, or layouts I can look at to get ideas? 
Thanks,
Norm


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## tankist

hi and welcome. 
sure, there are plenty, feel free to look around


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## Norm

Thank you. And as you noted, I am new to the list. 
Any ideas where to start looking?? 
Norm


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## Reckers

Norm, welcome to the forum. I think Tankist was pointing out that the site is full of pics of layouts, and inviting you to browse back through earlier O gauge posts to look at them. Another site you might consider is this one: http://www.thortrains.net/marx/funlayo1.html

It won't have L shaped layouts, but it should give you ideas you can incorporate into your own. I'd strongly suggest acquiring some layout software; there's some very good stuff available that is reasonably-priced and reduces the track nightmare to a manageable task. My personal preference is Anyrail (http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html). You can download a 50-section demo for free and use it endlessly; I liked it enough that I thought buying the program to be well worth the investment.

The best suggestion I can offer, though, is this: take your time. Look at it, think about it, and think it through thoroughly before buying stuff. Spend some time here, get to know people and talk about what you might want to do: brainstorming with friends can save you a lot of wasted time. Along that line, you might want to visit the new members thread (if you haven't, by now) and introduce yourself.

Finally, give some thought to what era and what geography you want to model. While you are the only true arbitrator of what is right for your layout, impulsively buying a really sharp diesel and then realizing you really want to model the steam era can lead to chagrin, if nothing else. Decide the "when", and decide the "where". Do you want mountains and forests, or a city? With O gauge, it's hard to have both without a very, very large layout. Take your time, pull up a chair and talk to people here on the site.


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## tjcruiser

Ditto ... perfect words of wisdom and direction from Reck above. Well said.

TJ


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## Norm

Fellows, thanks for comments. 
I have looked through the pics, but nothing is even close to what I am thinking of, and I don't really want, nor need to but anything but (maybe) some track and switches.
I already have most of the Lionel operating accessories (and enough rolling stock), and only want some *toy-train* style operating layout ideas. 
What I really need is some track layouts for the "L"-shaped platform I am building. 
I expect I probably am in the wrong group and asking more than you guys are doing.
But, thanks for replies. Trains are fun. My equipment dates back to the late 40's, 50's & 60's when I previously had layouts, and I want to get it setup again, utilizing as many operating accessories as possible. 
Norm


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## tjcruiser

Have you looked in old ('40's, '50's) Lionel catalogs and/or an old Greenberg's manual for examples of old track layouts? I don't have my Greenbergs or old catalogs in front of me, but I seem to recall they both offered sample layout ideas. Not sure if any were "L", though.

TJ


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## Norm

Thanks TJ. I don't have too many Greenberg stuff, but I do have the reasonably comprehensive MDK 1984 publication that has quite a few layouts, but nothing L-shaped I can use. 

My plan is to incorporate as many of the operating accessories I have into something that can display them nicely.

Unfortunately, there are few L-shaped plans around. For some reason almost everything is rectangular. Going to an L-shaped layout will give me more outside edge (perimeter) for the kids to walk along and be able to operate the accessories.

Reckers advise about taking my time and looking around is exactly what I have to do.

Thanks,
Norm


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## Big Ed

Norm said:


> I am starting a new L-shaped layout, after about a 25 year absence.
> The new layout will be made up by combining a 5' X 10' leg with a 5' X 8' leg.
> I want to have an older style toy-train layout, with most of the older Lionel accessories.
> Does anybody have any ideas, or layouts I can look at to get ideas?
> Thanks,
> Norm



Hey Norm, fellow New Jersey'ian. Welcome to the site.

Why don't you make up your own plan?
What kind of accessory's do you have to add on the layout?

Stick around and show us what you got.

Here are some L shape from Thor's site. Just add your size as they are a different size.
http://www.thortrains.net/marx/l482a1.html


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## Norm

Hey Big Ed, you're the man! 

The link is VERY HELPFUL and exactly what I was looking for. :thumbsup:

While I'm certainly going to have to design my own layout, I just can't get started and am looking for some ideas to save time.

My last layout was a Christmas layout, (2) 4' X 8' platforms plugged together under the tree in the early 70's.

As far as the accessories I want to use, some of them are the Coal Elevator; 397 Coal Loader; 3' Coal Ramp, another Coal Accessory that doesn't have a number, but the car dumps into a bin which lifts up into a hopper at the top..... when it dumps down. 

I haven't used that accessory before, as the same for the 164 Lumber Shed.

I Also have the 464 Lumber Mill, the 313 Bascule Bridge, Culvert Loader & Unloader; The Icing Station; Milk Platform, Cattle & Horse Corrals; Newstand; 362 Barrel Loader; Magnetic Crane; Rocket Launcher; Burro Crane; Fork Truck Platform; and numerous operating cars as best I can tell that I have already unpacked..... and can others I remember.

They take up a lot of real estate, but are fun to watch.

Anyway, I'm finally started and that's the most important part.

BTW, where in Jersey are you??

Norm


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## tjcruiser

Ohh nooo ... Here we go again ... More "Jersey" talk ... 

:laugh:


(Norm, glad to see you got some good tips here. Keep us posted on your progress, and ping the gang back with any questions. Uhh ... Except the "What Exit?!?" one!)

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

Norm said:


> Hey Big Ed, you're the man!
> 
> The link is VERY HELPFUL and exactly what I was looking for. :thumbsup:
> 
> While I'm certainly going to have to design my own layout, I just can't get started and am looking for some ideas to save time.
> 
> My last layout was a Christmas layout, (2) 4' X 8' platforms plugged together under the tree in the early 70's.
> 
> As far as the accessories I want to use, some of them are the Coal Elevator; 397 Coal Loader; 3' Coal Ramp, another Coal Accessory that doesn't have a number, but the car dumps into a bin which lifts up into a hopper at the top..... when it dumps down.
> 
> I haven't used that accessory before, as the same for the 164 Lumber Shed.
> 
> I Also have the 464 Lumber Mill, the 313 Bascule Bridge, Culvert Loader & Unloader; The Icing Station; Milk Platform, Cattle & Horse Corrals; Newstand; 362 Barrel Loader; Magnetic Crane; Rocket Launcher; Burro Crane; Fork Truck Platform; and numerous operating cars as best I can tell that I have already unpacked..... and can others I remember.
> 
> They take up a lot of real estate, but are fun to watch.
> 
> Anyway, I'm finally started and that's the most important part.
> 
> BTW, where in Jersey are you??
> 
> Norm



Exit 10 Norm, Edison area.:laugh: (bug TJ)
Where you at, down in Atlantic Highlands?

Actually Reckers gave you the link first if you looked through it, the L plans were there.
By the looks of your list of add on's to the layout, your going to need a bigger layout then 2 4x8's.
Stick around, give us progress reports. (With pictures of course.)


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## Norm

Ed, I'm actually in the HIGHlands ("high" area) of Jersey. Elev here is about 950' ASL. I am midway between Hackettstown (Warren Cty.), Clinton (Town, Hunterdon Cty) and Washington Boro, (Warren Cty).

Much of the water used further South come from up here, and the many farm owners are complaining about the value of their farms dropping drastically because of the moratorium of new construction, in order to protect the water supply. Of course, some think the "protection" lines were drawn to help some..... and not others.  

And, yes Reckers did give me the link, but I didn't spend enough time to properly check it out. Sorry about that. 

Also, the legs of the new layout are actually 5' X 8' and 5' X 10'.
But, I do have room to add another 4' or 5' X 10' leg to end up with a "U", in the future. If I didn't start with the "L"-shaped arrangement, I'd never get started. hwell:

And, not to really bug TJ, :laugh: but a few years ago while visiting RI, we were looking for a place in Providence to stay for the night. There was one or two signs for a Welcome Center, but we were not able to find where it was "hidden". We ended up spending the night in Mass. 

I'll send pics as I get going. 

BTW, is anybody making the 0-31 (or 0-42) tubular track?? I'm looking to buy some new stuff, but it is hard to find.

All the best,

Norm


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## tjcruiser

Norm,

Got a chuckle out of your RI story. I don't dispute it at all! I still find it crazy that for me to drive from Newport to Providence (both in RI), I have to head out Rt 24 and Rt 195 into MA for over half of the trip. RI is so small, there's not enough room to drive from A to B without leaving the state! And ...

You likely saved some cash in your pocket ... sales tax / hotel tax is cheaper in MA than in RI.

Re: track ... Lionel offers O-31 and O-42 tubular ...

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Find...ywords=&CategoryID=529&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Find...ywords=&CategoryID=529&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Cheers,

TJ


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## Norm

Hey TJ, glad you got a kick out of my Providence story. 

And thanks for track link. I was beginning to think Lionel didn't make it any more.

I'm on a very slow BroadBand connection and it's tough surfing to find good stuff. There's a lot of chaff out there and that's what I usually get. It takes forever to find anything out there. 

Thanks,

Norm


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## Norm

Since TJ asked, here are some pics of the little progress made to date.hwell:

Not too much, but it is a start!:thumbsup:

Norm


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## tjcruiser

Hey Norm,

What the L ?!?!? Hee hee ... I just had to say that ... like the way it sounds!

Nice use of space in the basement, with good clearance all around, if that's where she'll live when done. Good joist spacing. Plenty of legs. One suggestion, though ...

I'm thinking you might want to add some diagonal braces to the upper section of each leg ... two on each leg, facing 90-degrees apart. These could either be triangular plywood gussets say 10" x 10" or so, or 2"x3" bracing installed on a 45-deg angle. Either way, I think you'll find that some reinforcements on the top of the legs will go a long way to prevent the eventual bottom corner-kick and buckling/failure of the top joint into the main frame. Your call, of course, but take a look at how sturdy (or risky) those top joints are as it stands.

Just a suggestion ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## Norm

Thanks TJ, the table actually is very solid as it, but you're right (of course) about the leg bracing. 

The table is where it will be. I don't know if you can see it in the pic, probably the pic just before the sheathing was installed, but I did "tie" the tables to (both) Lolly columns with 1" steel banding. between the straps and the weight, the tables (screwed together, don't move at all. 

The legs do move when "kicked", however as you suggested. They are attached with 1/4 bolts, with the heads recessed to prevent injury to little hands. I plan to add a (deck) screw near the top of the leg to see if that will hold them in "place" for now. 

I had planned to add diagonal bracing, but I was thinking to do that after the thing is wired as Murphy's Laws dictates the bracing will interfere with me getting under the table when installing the wires.

I am planning to lay out the track to see how it will work BEFORE I place the Homosote which I hope will deaden the sound somewhat. The Homosote will be full coverage on top. 

BTW, do you have any idea of a good sized AWG wire to run to operate the accessories, and if there is any place where I can buy it as cheap as possible? 

I was going to buy some 12 or 14 AWG bare wire for a ground "buss", but Home Depot didn't appear to have any in stock. I expect I can strip the insulation from some wire I have on hand, but I have better things to do with my time.

Norm


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## tjcruiser

Norm,

Do a search here on the forum for "wire size" and similar hits. I know that several veteran guys have talked about that. 12 or 14 sounds large to me, based upon what others have said. I think 18 rings a bell, but you should poke into related threads.

I believe some guys have had good success with buying their wire at Radio Shack.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

I use 14 gauge just for power to the track.

If you find some old telephone wire and strip the wire out of the casing there's a ton in side that are good for lights and accessories. Though with some accessories you might want something heavier.

They say if you can't sit on your table without worrying if it will hold you then it's not strong enough.

That's what they say.......for O gauge.

Me? At around 270lbs, I never tested mine!


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## Norm

Thanks Ed & TJ. 

I remember the small coil of wire enclosed with some accessories looked to be about 20 to 22 gauge and solid, not stranded, but the wire for the Remote Control Tracks looked to be about 18 ga., and stranded.

I was thinking of using telephone wire as Ed suggested, for some of the accessories. 

I also was thinking of using different color wires for each accessory so I could trace it out a little easier if trouble develops. Some of the heavy phone cables had many, many different pairs. 

I have some time for wiring, next step is to figure out placement of accessories and track.

All the best,

Norm
ps Ed, no way would I try to sit on the table..... especially after all that work!


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## Norm

Ed & TJ, I just wanted to update you as to how my layout is coming. 

Attached is a track plan to date.

Norm


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## Big Ed

Norm said:


> Ed & TJ, I just wanted to update you as to how my layout is coming.
> 
> Attached is a track plan to date.
> 
> Norm


Looks like a fun plan.:thumbsup:
You got space to make it bigger I see too.

A little details,
whats size curves? switches? what transformer you planning to use?

Do you have any laid yet?
You might have said already but....what kind of track are you planning on?
details details

I am sure others besides us are looking at the thread too.


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## Norm

Ed, all the track has been laid. except for the RCS track.

Curves started out to be 042 (tubular) curves but then I decided to use the 031 I boughts after I "thought I couldn't find where I stored my track & switches about 30 years ago. (Naturally, soon after I bought the track, I finally found my track).

Then a friend gave me a box of track and a friend that is working with me, and I found 9 pieces of 042 curved track in the box, so I did use them at 3 sections, that you might notice if you give the plan a very close look-see. 

There are 18 022 switches and I am planning to use 2-ZW transformers. 

My big job right now is to layout my control panel.

Here are some photos of what the layout looks like as a week or so ago, but I am still adding and re-arrasnging accessories since them.

Norm


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## tjcruiser

Norm,

I LOVE the layout plan. Very creative ... nice mix of loops, yards. I assume this is old-school with three zones (not DCC)? 18 022's ... wow ... that's a lot! Very nice indeed.

Do keep us posted ... fun stuff!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Nice Norm!:thumbsup:

Whats it in a garage? 3 bay? 4?:thumbsup:

If so is it heated?

I have seen column posts like yours, by the layout been transformed some into grain silos.

It looks like you have a lot more floor space yet.

Keep us posted....looking good.:thumbsup:


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## Norm

Ed & TJ, a few pics to update.

Board is in basement, not really "heated", but it is probably a very close comfortable temp year round. 

I do have a separate heated & cooled 3 car garage, but my shop (FWIW) is in there, along with my little car. The heat is by a Modine 45,000 BTUH and (MADD DOG??) propane heater, and a 8,000 BTUH window style AC unit. The AC unit is only used about 4 or 5 days a year as we are in the Highlands of Joisey where it usually not too hot and a dehumidifier makes the garage/shop comfortable if needed. But the winter, well that's another story.

The post idea sounds interesting. Funny, we put the (red) lolly column in when we knocked some walls down a few years ago, but, like the church in Italy (I think), the column looks nice, but it isn't supporting anything. 
And to think it cost about $1,000 to put a footing & column in...... oh well, the guy doing the work was better than we both thought. He apparently has the column & beam upstairs supported from the nearby, original column.

TJ, thanks for compliments. It feels good to read them.
And, it definitely is "old school". Everything I have was bought by the mid-70's, except for some TCA LCCA & TTOS stuff, but nothing "DCC", which I really don't know what that stands for , but it will be all the old style Joshua liked. I also bought a few Alaska Beeps as our #4 daughter recently moved to AK.
I have seen the FasTrack, but to me it just doesn't look "right". 

My goal is to have a only TOY TRAIN layout, nothing to scale, etc. as I am not any good at making scenery. 

BTW, the (new) frame work (pic) is for my control panel. It is taking a good amount of time as I am drawing it up in CADD and that helps. 

TTYL, and a happy New Year to you both.
Norm


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## tjcruiser

Norm,

Thanks for the update/pics. I love your layout ... this is exactly what I think of when I envision a traditional, old-school, flatland, toylike Lionel layout. Makes me think I'm walking back in time 50 years.

Have fun with the control panel, and keep us posted!

TJ


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## concretepumper

*Great layout! I like the progress pics. I am starting a HO layout soon and I will post WIP pics on a thred and share also. Thanks for the inspiration! :thumbsup: ...................CP................  *


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## erkenbrand

That's turning into an awesome layout! I can't wait to see the next pics. Good luck!


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## kursplat

that's going to be a lot of fun to run on


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## Norm

*Updated Pics Of Layout*

Just a few pics of layout as it was a few weeks ago.

It has been fun, what with bringing the stuff back to life.

I'm now thinking of adding a 4' X 8' leg to make it somewhat "U"-shaped.

The new leg will be mainly for a turntable.

Norm


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## Big Ed

hey Norm, somehow I missed the 1/4 update.

Looking good.:thumbsup:

As much as I like the protectors you added to the sides, it takes away from viewing the trains huh.hwell:

(edit, though the spot with the clear protector looks nice, other sides look foggy. Why is that? Is that plexy-glass the foggy stuff and the other real glass?)

Turntable....with a round house too?

Picture of the command center?

Your missing a rocket launch pad, what happened did it explode?
There used to be three?


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## tjcruiser

Norm,

You're back! Good deal. I really like this old-school / traditional layout. Very nostalgic. Looking forward to your expansion.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Norm

*Control Panel*

Ed, this is an older pic of control panel. 

The plastic is 0.220 clear Plexiglas. That was a story in itself in cutting it. 

Anyway, it is as clear as glass..... as you noted, when the (protective) covering is removed. 

It actually gives it a completed "look" to the board when the covering is ALL removed, as it now is. 

I always knew I needed it as I get carried away when I run the trains too fast. But when one of my grandsons ran my #675 loco off the table, (only using "hand" power) and he broke off the boiler front, lamp & jewel holders when it landed on one of the foam fatigue" mats I had in place, I knew some thicker panels were needed. 

I wouldn't let the kids run the trains under power when they visited, and only the second train in (Blue line) by hand, he was still able to get it going fast enough to go off the table.

He was only 4 years old, but he sure can get into trouble!:laugh:

I also just got a Williams Lackawanna FM and that thing is so powerful it pulls the 2500 passenger cars off the track when I start up on curves. Whew!! 

I do have plans to build a RoundHouse, but I'm still laying out my track plan for the expansion. 

And, there are only 2 Rocket Launchers, Fortunately as that's all I have room for  

And TJ, it's great to be back as you guys sure do make my feel good about what I am doing. 

My fun is in designing & building the layout and bringing all the toys back to life. 

One piece in particular is a 400 series Budd Car that was badly damaged by battery damage. It ran okay, but I wanted it to have a useful horn. 

My buddy had an original frame for it and he switched everything over for me and now it is complete and has a useful horn AND a stronger "chassis".

Norm


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## tjcruiser

Norm,

BRAVO on that control panel! I just love that clean, old-fashioned, traditional look. Very nicely executed. (I embedded your photo for others to easily see.)

Is that CP surface level, or angled up a bit?

Cheers,

TJ


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## Norm

*Control Panel*

Thanks TJ. 

The panel is on about a 14° angle. It opens "up" from the front and I gotta tell you, it is HEAVY, what with the transformers in placehwell:

I still have to install some labels at the controls for quick action (when needed) as well as more controls for some minor accessories I am installing. 

Norm


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