# OO is not that different than Ho



## bakkers2005 (Nov 12, 2010)

1/87 Ho is only about 3mm smaller than OO 1/72. you can hardly pick the difference. It is only the make of locomotive or rollingstock that gives its size away. I model in both Ho and OO as i kitbash most of what i have out of any thing that is going to match the photo of the loco that i want to build that is not available commercially. I have members in my club who have been in the model railroad game since the 50's, they as most australians start with hornby, lima which is OO and then progress onto Athearne or atlas or any Ho company that makes American. To this day they have not picked which one of my 12 locos is either from Ho or OO stock. OO to me just means that the locomotive is from great britain and they dont look so out of place next to a locomotive from the US. What do you think? regards bob

in the attached pics is a bachman spectum 2-8-0 Ho and a Robinson 04 from branchline OO


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I think the size difference is pretty subtle, and likely not noticable to the casual eye.

Excellent work with your layout, by the way ...

TJ


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## NeoGen (Jan 23, 2011)

Is the difference noticeable for rolling stocks specially passenger cars. 

Also, when you have HO engines and OO coaches, does it standout?


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

imho the difference is very noticeable


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## NeoGen (Jan 23, 2011)

tankist said:


> imho the difference is very noticeable


After seeing this, even I feel the difference would be noticeable:


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

NeoGen said:


> After seeing this, even I feel the difference would be noticeable:


I think that picture is exagerating it a bit.I have some OO and HO engines and they are relatively the same prototypical size and they seem to have the same height in scale as well. So i don't think it is very noticable.


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## NeoGen (Jan 23, 2011)

gc53dfgc said:


> I think that picture is exagerating it a bit.I have some OO and HO engines and they are relatively the same prototypical size and they seem to have the same height in scale as well. So i don't think it is very noticable.


Can you please post some pics. I am planning to mix some OO with my HO stuff


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I am sorry I have not posted on here in a long time. I will try to get some good comparison shots of the OO engine which is a g3 or g4 Pacific if I remember correctly then my HO g3 Pacific. I will also get some photo's of the rolling stock.


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## lynbarn (Apr 23, 2011)

NeoGen said:


> Can you please post some pics. I am planning to mix some OO with my HO stuff


There are a couple of comparisons of a British Class 66 loco in 4mm (OO) and 3.5mm (HO) scale at:

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13197&st=15&start=15

See post #27 and #30.

The prototype is 70ft 3in long. At 4mm to one foot, that is 11.06 inches, at 3.5mm: 9.68 inches.

To my mind, it looks very odd running the two scales together, and this practice should be avoided at all costs!

regards,

Martyn


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

OK, I guess if you had the same engines in both HO and OO scale it would look very odd. But I have run my OO (Eroupe) engines with HO (US) engines so it isn't as noticeable that and it could be that my OO engine being as it is Live steam might actually be closer to HO than OO for some reason.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Okay I did a side by side comparison with a Hornby Live Steam OO scale Mallard which is a G4 or G3 Pacific which is streamlined. A Hornby OO scale Harry Potter engine with matching coaches which I am thinking is either a G3 or G4 and finally an HO scale G3 Heavy Pacific or Pacific depending on the tender with matching coach. 









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I used the same type and class of engines and caoches and they look exactly the same size. So US HO mixed with UK OO isn't noticable at least to me. Now UK OO and UK HO there is probably going to be a more noticable difference than with the other which I think is none.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice side-by-side layup / comparison!


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## lynbarn (Apr 23, 2011)

gc53dfgc, that's fine, its your railway - you can run it how you want, and if you're happy with that, and it looks okay to you, then great - that's what hobbies are all about, but my point was that there is about 1/8th difference between the scales (compare a group of HO and OO figures for example). The loading gauge in the UK means that a UK loco SHOULD look smaller when comparted with a US equivalent, with the european versions somewhere in between.

In order to depict a real railway, where such things matter, it is definitely (again, to my eyes) better to stick to one scale. 

I model narrow gauge, where there is a much greater variety in the sizes of prototypical rolling stock, but even then, care has to be taken when mixing e.g. HOn30 (or HOe) and OO9 stock - there needs to be enough room in the cab to accomodate a driver, for example!

regards, 
Martyn


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice comparison pictures.:thumbsup:

I agree they are not that much different.





















Now go clean your finger nails before dinner!:laugh:


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I got some of that thermal compound stuck in them and it won't go away!

I would like to clear up as I got the Pacific's wrong. The Mallard is a A3 or A4 Pacific the Harry Potter is a 4-6-0 not even a Pcific (I was very tired last night) and the Blue Comet is a G3 Pacific.


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## gustovski (Jul 7, 2011)

mallard is a gresly a4 pacific of the lner


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## Cyntech (Feb 8, 2012)

I have an HO Sante Fe (LifeLike) in the National Railways colours which looks to be a lot larger than my OO Flying Scotsman from Hornby Railways. I have also just picked up a LifeLike HO 2-8-2 Mikado which looks to be the same size as my OO FS. This and the discussion have confused me a little as to the scale of the locos.

I'll have to post some pictures to demonstrate later tonight.


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

ok just an odd question, can I run a OO train set (German/UK) on a HO track (American)?? if so then this will solve a few questions I have...as I am looking at a nice train set thats OO gauge...


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## gustovski (Jul 7, 2011)

New Berlin RR said:


> ok just an odd question, can I run a OO train set (German/UK) on a HO track (American)?? if so then this will solve a few questions I have...as I am looking at a nice train set thats OO gauge...


linky for that set?


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

its the older Hornby Intercity (UK) train set ill try to find a pic of it...its the class 125 I think...

its the closest i could find


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Yes, OO and HO use the same track gauge, even though the scales are different.

As pointed out above, the size comparison photos are not actually all that valid, as UK equipment is much smaller in reality than North American equipment. Those UK coaches should be a lot smaller than the American ones.

Notice how the British Class 66 roofline only comes up to about the bottom of the headlight on the GP38.


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## CW Burfle (Jan 11, 2012)

> Yes, OO and HO use the same track gauge, even though the scales are different.


Brittish "OO" uses the same track gauge as "HO", which is 16.5 mm.
American "OO" uses 19 MM gauge track. 

Here is a web site dedicated to American "OO":

http://americanoo.blogspot.com/


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## gustovski (Jul 7, 2011)

interested in when/why they are running american and British rolling stock


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

The main point here is that the US loading gauge, and hence its locomotives and rolling stock is bigger than that of the British Loading gauge. This means that all locos and stock are smaller in britain, as per the excellent picture of diesels earlier in the discussion. This means that if you mix HO and OO, the British locos look much bigger than they really are compared to the US locos. This tends to deemphasize the sheer size of US steam locos, which does them a disservice. Also, it does the British locos a disservice, because the British engineers managed to pack quite a lot of power into quite small locos.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

gustovski said:


> interested in when/why they are running american and British rolling stock


Those engines were built at EMD's plant in London, ON (Canada). They were photographed on the way from the factory to a port to be loaded onto a ship for export. This particular train had export engines for Britain, Belgium and Poland.

Only the two North American engines at the front are under power; all the European engines are simply cargo.


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

Yes, a great photo. To my eyes the British locos are more handsome, but I am biased. Great photo, and a great find! Thanks for posting it. I think there must be similar photos of steam locos around, since quite a few express passenger locos from the UK came to the US and Canada in the 20th century. Certainly, Flying Scotsman (A3 4-6-2), King George VI (King 4-6-0), Dwight D Eisenhower (A4 4-6-2) etc came to the Americas. Would be great to see those photos.


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

*Details of photo*

Do you have more details of the diesel photo for the record? The date and a more exact place for example. I think I can see the running numbers of the locos, etc?


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

I photographed the export train on Jan. 20, 2007 at Georgetown, Ontario. They were on the first leg of their journey from the factory in London.

The power for the train was 
GEXR 4046
GEXR 3856

The cargo was 7 "Class 66" JT42CWR locomotives, destined for European export.

FreightLiner 66623 - UK
Rail4Chem EU08 (shop number on card in cab window) - Belgium/Netherlands
Rail4Chem EU09 (shop number on card in cab window) - Belgium/Netherlands
Freightliner PL EU03 (shop number on card in cab window) - Poland
Freightliner PL EU04 (shop number on card in cab window) - Poland
Freightliner PL EU02 (shop number on card in cab window) - Poland
Freightliner 66624 - UK

I've got several other occasions that I've caught export trains as well. Sadly that plant is now closed (and I moved to another city 2 years ago anyway).


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

Thanks Brakeman. A most full description. Wonderful!


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## gustovski (Jul 7, 2011)

how did they couple the British engines (use buffer and chain) to the american(knuckles)?????


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

In the photo URL I posted above, you can see the three link chain used in steam days. Modern British Passenger trains use a variant of the buckeye coupler, while locomotives often have arrangements for both systems as necessary for legacy rolling stock.


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## D1566 (Jun 8, 2012)

gustovski said:


> how did they couple the British engines (use buffer and chain) to the american(knuckles)?????


I believe that they bolted on a temporary knuckle coupler to the end locos in the consist. An increasing amount of British rolling stock is fitted with knuckle or some form of automated coupler these days.


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

Yes, there are various adapters. There is a wikipedia article on couplers where there are some details, but it is not all that thorough.


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## gustovski (Jul 7, 2011)

rgmichel said:


> Yes, there are various adapters. There is a wikipedia article on couplers where there are some details, but it is not all that thorough.


have read said article many times
didnt have much on buffer/chain to knuckle conversion


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

I may have to start converting some of my OO scales over to the knuckle style coupler now


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

gustovski said:


> how did they couple the British engines (use buffer and chain) to the american(knuckles)?????


They usually used a conversion flatcar that has regular knuckles on one end and European buffers and chains on the other:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=emdx11001&o=emdx
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=emdx11002&o=emdx

Sometimes however, and this is what happened in this case, they run without the conversion cars and have knuckle couplers mounted on the foreign engines.

Same train as the earlier photo in this thread:


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