# Where to start?



## mwpayne1 (Oct 8, 2014)

Hi folks, newbie here! I want to get my 7 year old granddaughter a train set for Christmas. I'd like it to be electric (battery ok, plug in best) and the correct size so I can put on a board and slide under her twin bed, as space is limited. Nothing pink or girly, she doesn't roll that way lol.
Any suggestions?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

If you're not planning a fancy layout, pretty much any hobby store train set will do. Bachmann, Kato, and Walthers / Life-Like are good brands. Obviously, the train set stuff is not top quality (especially the transformers) but it should work for your purposes.

I would avoid an over / under set (where the track crosses over itself on trestles), because these can cause problems. Also avoid steel or brass rails -- nickel silver is state of the art, and will cause fewer problems. Sets with track attached to plastic roadbed (EZ Track, Power-Loc, and similar) will stay together better and have fewer electrical gremlins.

A basic oval or figure 8, perhaps with a siding or passing track, should run you about $200. Either HO or N scale would be fine: HO (1/87 scale) is bigger and more durable, maybe more suitable for her size, but will take up more space. N is about half the size and correspondingly more delicate, and will cost a little more, but requires less space. Either will fit under a twin bed.

You can fit any of these sets on a sheet of plywood, which you can add some terrain details to if you feel like it (good project for the both of you).

If you're a little more ambitious starting off, there are also prefab layouts available which include realistic terrain, track, structures, and scenery (trains sold separately), but you're talking serious money for those and there is no guarantee they would fit under a bed (they require a full 4x8 sheet of plywood, and have some significant relief to the terrain). If that idea appeals, we can provide more details).

Hope that helps.


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## mwpayne1 (Oct 8, 2014)

Wow thanks a ton, so helpful! I had no idea of even the different sizes (HO, N, etc) you cleared that all up! Looks like amazon has the bachman line, no hobby stores close to me, hope that'll work out.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Amazon has LifeLike sets too. I kind of wondered why these (both brands) were so cheap, and it's the track. Most of them are steel, which requires a fair bit of work to keep clean enough to run reliably.

Look at the roadbed color. Gray is nickel-silver (the good kind), black is steel (not so good). 

One thing I did see is some expansion packs, so you can build a more interesting track than a simple circle.

Glad I could help.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Does anyone think that N or HO may be too susceptible to
damage from a 7 y/o? I'm thinking an 027 or 0 gauge would be
far better in the hands of the youngster. 

The larger locos and cars are far easier to rerail
by those small hands than the smaller N or HO trains. 

The 0 gauge tracks could easily
be fastened to a sheet of plywood that would fit under the bed.

Don


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

O-gauge would certainly be far more robust. If that 7 year old is anything like my grandson, HO wouldn't stand a chance!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I did consider the larger scales before replying. My son, now 11, has been perfectly at home with HO since age 4-1/2. It depends on the child. 

Also, if you're limiting yourself to something that can fit under a twin bed, O doesn't allow you many options in that real estate. True, a 7 year old is much more likely to be fascinated with something that goes around in a circle, but going back to the single example of my son, even when he was building Brio and wooden Thomas stuff, he was building room-filling empires, not circles.


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## Bone1977 (Jan 17, 2014)

If you can let us know what type of trains she likes or that you want to get we can narrow down the choices. While Bachman sets are nice for what they are, you can get better quality products for similar prices, especially the Kato Unitrack. They have more track pack expansions that are drop in and you can expand your track without much trouble.

The M1 or M2 start set with are far superior to Bachman IMO and you can buy the trains you want to go with them.


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## golfermd (Apr 19, 2013)

I bought my grandson a Lionel set.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bone1977, not really disagreeing with you, but I don't think the statement "similar prices" is accurate. More like 2-3 times the price, if you consider track, powerpack, and trains.

Also, isn't Kato exclusively N scale?


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

I personally think, it really depends on the individual kid. Some 7 year old kids can be quite good with small trains, and play responsibly, but others not so much. By the way I have 2 nieces, ages 5 and 7, and they are okay with my model trains. But I like to keep an eye on them, just in case. 

O scale will be the most rugged for kids, but it's a lot larger then HO or N scales. 

Life-Like, Bachmann and Kato all make HO and N scale trains. Track prices are quite similar in price from all three brands (only comparing the nickle-silver track from each brand). But Kato (especially in N scale) has by far the largest selection of track (with built-in roadbed). Actually the company with the largest selection of track pieces in N scale, would be the Japanese company of Tomix. But that is rarely seen outside of Japan. The vast majority of modelers in Japan build temporary N scale layouts on the floor or tables, using either Tomix or Kato track. Japanese homes are quite small, compared to American (or even European) standards. Add to that the fact that the tiny nation of Japan has as many model railroad modelers as North America and Europe combined, so it's a huge market. Which is why I mentioned Tomix, if you want a huge selection of N scale track. It's available on Ebay from some Japanese sellers. Kato on the other hand, is easy to get in America. And probably 90 percent of what Kato makes is N scale, simply because of their huge Japanese home market. But they do have a nice selection of N and HO scale locomotives for the American market. And Kato makes a very high quality track, both in N and HO scales, which is exclusively nickle-silver.

Getting back to the discussion, the Kato power pack will cost more money, compared to Life-Like or Bachmann power packs. It's also a better product, in my opinion. Both Life-Like and Bachmann make various ranges of locomotives (which varies in quality and price). On the other hand, almost everything Kato produces is top notch. 

Also MRC (Model Rectifier Corporation) makes a high quality power pack. 

Howard


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## mwpayne1 (Oct 8, 2014)

Great discussion folks, I'm learning more and more! My granddaughter has always wanted a train, this would be her first. She's pretty gentle with her toys and really good with puzzles, etc, however something that would be easy to re-rail is important. I found this on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000ISI1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Opinions? Also, what platform (board) would you suggest, is plywood too heavy to pull out and shove back under a bed?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

mwpayne1 said:


> Great discussion folks, I'm learning more and more! My granddaughter has always wanted a train, this would be her first. She's pretty gentle with her toys and really good with puzzles, etc, however something that would be easy to re-rail is important. I found this on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000ISI1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> Opinions? Also, what platform (board) would you suggest, is plywood too heavy to pull out and shove back under a bed?


Hello and welcome to the site.


Train sizes, the Z are small there is another smaller and you need a magnifying glass to see them.
Now see the On30, they are a bigger train that runs on HO track, they are almost O size, but run on HO track.
The HOn3 runs on HO track but is a little smaller in size. Other options for you to think about, but there are plenty of HO and N trains on the market. It is up to you. How good are your eyes? Eventually you have to service and maybe fix something. Compared to working on O, HO and more so N is more difficult for big fingers and worn out eyes. We can walk you through on fixing and doing the normal maintenance.








First question, how high is the bed off the floor?
You could put wheels on the board, just roll it out and in.

If she is good with things and won't wreck them and take care of handling them, you can fit a lot more on the table with N scale.

With HO and N scale they make these, re-railers, they are not expensive and you just put the trains on and let them roll down onto the track. Instead of trying to manually putting them on with your hands. Makes putting the trains on a piece of cake.

A re-railer,








Don't be afraid to ask something here, here there are no stupid questions.
Other sites you may be ignored as they have no time for a newbie, not here ask away you should get an answer.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Something else you could do, a hinged table that lifts up when not in use?

























To make it look a little better when in the up position she could tack a few posters onto it?
Just another option for the table.

One downside is that you have to have everything nice and tight to the table, or put stuff on every time you want to use it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Another option is a ceiling layout, we have a lot more on the site I just picked this one because of the pictures.


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=402&highlight=ceiling+layouts


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A few other options for a table, one of the pictures might not show, we will see what happens.

Now this is more for a garage, you build the table so you can pull it up to the ceiling on a pulley system when not in use. We have some threads on these.










The other is a table on wheels that lifts up when not in use to be put in the corner or somewhere out of the way.









The picture is a little small but it was deleted from where I found it. It is big enough so you can get the general ideal?

That is all for now, you want more ideals?


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

mwpayne1 said:


> Great discussion folks, I'm learning more and more! My granddaughter has always wanted a train, this would be her first. She's pretty gentle with her toys and really good with puzzles, etc, however something that would be easy to re-rail is important. I found this on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000ISI1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> Opinions? Also, what platform (board) would you suggest, is plywood too heavy to pull out and shove back under a bed?


Just a few quick questions for you. Which scale (such as N, or HO, etc) would your granddaughter likely prefer? And of course, which scale would you prefer to use? HO scale is usually a good all around scale to choose (such as the Bachmann train set you found on Amazon). N scale can sometimes be too small for some people, if your eyes can't see it, or hands can't work on it. I can deal with N scale okay, but sometimes it's kind of small for me, and I'm only 39 years old. 

As for the plywood board, I think it would be too heavy and difficult for a 7 year old kid to easily move around on the floor, unless you put some casters on it. 

And as has been already mentioned by Big Ed, you could also build a layout table that folds away, or hangs from the ceiling (like in a basement or garage). Another choice is a layout which is made up of 2 or more sections that connect together, usually called a sectional or modular layout. Each piece usually 2x4 feet or similar in size. Just do a Google search for "modular train layout", and click on images for various examples. There are lot's of possibilities. 

More examples of modular layouts at these next two websites. Both have lot's of pictures. First site is about "N-trak" modules (usually 2'x4') while the second site is about "T-trak" modules, which are smaller. 

http://www.mtntrak.org/2009_06.html

http://t-trakhandbook.com/TTrak.050000000/TTrak.050000000.htm?AAO



Howard


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## mwpayne1 (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks all, but the wall idea, etc are great but not practical for her bedroom.. I think the HO scale will be fine, but I was wondering if there was a lighter weight option platform for the under the bed deal?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

mwpayne1 said:


> Thanks all, but the wall idea, etc are great but not practical for her bedroom.. I think the HO scale will be fine, but I was wondering if there was a lighter weight option platform for the under the bed deal?


2' thick foam insulation board would be fine, it is fairly sturdy. For added protection just glue it to a sheet of 1/4" plywood.
If you go that way you can carve in a river and add a few bridges.


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## kcjones (Sep 12, 2014)

Another vote for 2" foam insulation. It's normally pink color, not white styrofoam. You can buy 4x8 sheets at home Depot. Much lighter and easier to move. Plenty strong. I'd go with ho myself. Much more selection, easier to handle. O scale "lionel" type trains would be great, but probably wouldn't fit under a bed, and you'd really be limited to just an oval. Trainsetsonly.com and modeltrainstuff.com are good sources for sets.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

kcjones said:


> Another vote for 2" foam insulation. It's normally pink color, not white styrofoam. You can buy 4x8 sheets at home Depot. Much lighter and easier to move. Plenty strong. I'd go with ho myself. Much more selection, easier to handle. O scale "lionel" type trains would be great, but probably wouldn't fit under a bed, and you'd really be limited to just an oval. Trainsetsonly.com and modeltrainstuff.com are good sources for sets.


When the hurricane wiped out our plant they redid the insulation board but used the 2"blue stuff. I think that might be stronger then the pink stuff.
Blue looks better too.

After the guys got done I told them to save me the scraps to use on the RR. They did save me some nice pieces of scrap and a full sheet.
But with the full sheet they stood it in the hallway and waited till I came in the room. As the one was taking pictures the other guy ran full steam crashing through the full sheet. He hurt himself doing it.:appl:
The only thing that happened to the sheet was that it cracked in two length wise.
They thought it would shatter into a bunch of pieces, his shoulder hurt for a week as he ended up on the floor the !#$^Z#!:appl:
I did get 2 nice 2x8 pieces. Plus a bunch of odd sizes....free.:smilie_daumenpos:

The 2" blue might be stronger stuff?
Plus it is blue, his girl doesn't want any pink.


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## kcjones (Sep 12, 2014)

Blue cant hurt... I think its the same stuff, though... just different brands. Probably best to paint it green or brown anyway. Neither blue nor pink looks natural at all.


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## kcjones (Sep 12, 2014)

Also, while it does most often come in 2x8 pieces, they do sell 4x8 too, and one piece rather than two glued together is probably what you want here.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

kcjones said:


> Also, while it does most often come in 2x8 pieces, they do sell 4x8 too, and one piece rather than two glued together is probably what you want here.


Yes but I would rather have the blue, even if it has to be painted.
If he glues them to a 1/4" plywood the 2 pieces of 2x8 won't matter.
All the sheets they bought were 4x8. Most of it I see in the stores are 4x8 pink and blue?
Yes,stay away from the white stuff!

The !%#$&#s knew I wanted a full sheet.:stroke:
Well, I can't complain for the price I got them, free. :thumbsup:


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## kcjones (Sep 12, 2014)

My suggestion is just 4x8 foam, no plywood. Much lighter and more portable, plenty strong all by itself for a 4x8 starter set. 

Around here, Lowes sells the Blue stuff and home Depot the pink stuff. Same other than color.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

kcjones said:


> My suggestion is just 4x8 foam, no plywood. Much lighter and more portable, plenty strong all by itself for a 4x8 starter set.
> 
> Around here, Lowes sells the Blue stuff and home Depot the pink stuff. Same other than color.


Yes, but you don't know that my favorite color is blue.
A Deep Sea Blue. :thumbsup: The color of water. 
You have not been a member long enough to know the meaning of this.
in here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9301&highlight=blue


It is fairly strong I though maybe if he wanted to carve some of it out that the 1/4" plywood glued to the underside would be better strength wise.
If no carving is done just the sheet of 4x8 would be fine.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

To get back on the topic a little, if the OP is okay with doing a little prep work, I think 2" insulation panels with a frame of 1x3's, maybe with a base made of 1/8" lauan sheets, would be a good way to go. It would still be light, but the frame would protect the edges of the foam from getting banged up, as well as give her a small lip to grab onto and pull by.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

CTValleyRR said:


> To get back on the topic a little, if the OP is okay with doing a little prep work, I think 2" insulation panels with a frame of 1x3's, maybe with a base made of 1/8" lauan sheets, would be a good way to go. It would still be light, but the frame would protect the edges of the foam from getting banged up, as well as give her a small lip to grab onto and pull by.




What do you mean by to get back on topic?

The OP said this,
Thanks all, but the wall idea, etc are great but not practical for her bedroom.. I think the HO scale will be fine, but I was wondering if there was a lighter weight option platform for the under the bed deal?

We were talking about mounting it on foam board?
And the differences of the colored foam? Strength, manufacturers, applications, what is the answer? So it has to do with his question of a *strong but lighter material *to use for under the bed. 

The foam board color was questioned (by me) and as it was suggested to him to use the foam board I think a little discussion is pertinent on the different colors differences. I have asked this about the difference before and no one really knew.

I found this, ( I guess the main reason is the different manufactures of the foam board.)
So now I guess my question has been answered and can stop being talked about. I guess I should have searched in the first place instead of expecting an answer here huh? :smokin: Thanks Ed. 

Copy and paste,

Brand Names
Both pink and blue foam boards are rigid insulation panels made from extruded polystyrene. The chemical composition, manufacturing process and insulating capability of the two products are similar; the principal difference between them is that they are manufactured by two different companies. Pink foam board is manufactured by Owens Corning, and it's marketed under several different brand-specific product names, including Foamular, Propink, Thermapink, and Insulpink. Blue foam board is manufactured by Dow Chemical Co., and it's marketed under the Styrofoam brand name.

Blue Foam Products
Blue foam products intended to be used as sheathing on exterior walls are faced with thin plastic films that protect the board's extruded polystyrene core and add extra strength to the board. Boards intended for interior walls are unfaced, but some of them include convenience features such as notches at the edges to accommodate wood nailing strips. Other blue foam products are designed for roofing or cavity wall applications. High-density blue foam products are designed to resist compression under heavy loads when they're used beneath concrete slabs.

Pink Foam Products
As with blue foam products, varieties of pink foam board are available for a range of specific applications, including interior and exterior wall sheathing, roofing, under-slab insulation and foundation wall insulation. Unique specialized pink foam products include a below-grade foundation insulation board with drainage channels on the surface of the board and a filtration fabric facing that prevents soil from clogging the channels. Owens Corning also offers a pink foam product manufactured with precise thickness tolerances for applications in which a tight connection between the board and an adjacent surface is necessary.

Other Foam Board Types
Pink and blue extruded polystyrene boards are different from expanded polystyrene board. Expanded polystyrene insulation is less expensive than extruded polystyrene, but it is also more fragile and is a less effective insulator. Polyisocyanurate panels, also called ISO panels, consist of a rigid foam core sandwiched between foil or fiberglass facings. ISO panels are strong and insulate more effectively than pink or blue panels, but ISO is significantly more expensive than extruded polystyrene.


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## mwpayne1 (Oct 8, 2014)

Hey guys, LOVE to read the passion you guys have for these trains, perhaps I'll develop this myself, as I'm 55 and this is (sadly) also my first train! Anyhoo, the foam board sounds like a super option, I'll look into that.
Thankagain!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

mwpayne1 said:


> Hey guys, LOVE to read the passion you guys have for these trains, perhaps I'll develop this myself, as I'm 55 and this is (sadly) also my first train! Anyhoo, the foam board sounds like a super option, I'll look into that.
> Thankagain!


It is more then passion it is an obsession. 
Pink or blue, it doesn't matter it looks to be the same stuff, just go for the 2" stuff and stay away from the white stuff.

And if your going to carve out spots in the foam for something like a river the 1/8" or 1/4" is nice to have under there just glue the foam board to it. 1x3 siding for pulling it in and out sounds good nice too. 

I think around here at least a 4x8 sheet costs around $15 to $17 bucks, maybe where your at it is cheaper?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

mwpayne1 said:


> Hey guys, LOVE to read the passion you guys have for these trains, perhaps I'll develop this myself, as I'm 55 and this is (sadly) also my first train! Anyhoo, the foam board sounds like a super option, I'll look into that.
> Thankagain!


Well, it is our hobby, after all. If we weren't passionate about it, we'd go do something else.

Most of us are here because we like helping others as much as we like doing it ourselves.

But beware, the train bug is highly contagious and very addictive. Maybe you should run while you can. Although, speaking from experience, it is a GREAT activity to share with youngsters (I also do the Railroading merit badge for boy scouts).


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