# BATTERY OPERATED MODEL TRAINS



## Redrider (Apr 19, 2017)

I don't want to start a war with the old guard, but my limited experience with model trains has led me to believe their has to be a less cluttered and more streamlined way of doing this. I know I'm not the first person on this planet to bring this up, but maybe I will be the first to bring up in this way.

With drone technology so popular these days, it baffles me that an industry still so popular would remain tethered to boxes and wires and inefficient, suspect power distribution. I just read an article from EE times about how trains get their electrical power from the track, knew that, but it was all the pitfalls between the wheels, the connectivity, the loss of contact, dirt on the track, dirt on the connectors, gaps, problem fixes due to loop tracks and how the rails come together, and then the author says, in my words, not his, "lose the electricity, lose the pitfalls."

My son's drone uses lithium polymer batteries and he gets plenty of use how of those. Plus, if you could use trickle charge technology coupled with turning the spinning electric engine into a generator, you might find some revolutionary way to recharge under power. When the batteries reach a certain percentage low, the trickle charge kicks in, and the moving train wheels spinning the generator that has built up charge, is allowed to feed the batteries that charge which helps keep your train going for another 30 minutes.

I'm not saying this technology exists, but if engineers can find ways to do all the other not so new, not so magnificent stuff they have done in the past that all of us have grown accustomed to and expect, I'm sure some electrical engineer can figure out a way to make a model train run on an efficient, powerful battery that gives us the same speed and abilities we enjoy now. Lionel and MTH certainly don't want to hear this, but I thought maybe one person in this forum might feel the same way.

I'd be more than happy to discuss it reasonably.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

This discussion has been had several times. Keep in mind that what is driving battery technology right now is the demand for things to be mobile and still have lots of power available. Speecifically, this is tools, phones, and tablet computers. A little niche market like model railroading doesn't attract the same kind of innovation, although innovation developed elsewhere often finds an application here.

Here is my problem with battery technology for model railroads. These are my requirements:
1) My operating sessions can last 4 hours or more, with a dozen locomotives operating more or less constantly for that period. Until a portable battery that can fit in an HO loco can do that (and I'm also opposed to non-prototypical wire harnesses betwen cars to allow batteries to be elsewhere).
2) My locos don't leave the layout between sessions, and even many of my trains never get uncoupled. Many locos end up in staging where they are not easily accessible. Telling me I have to move the loco to a charger, or pull the shell to take the battery to a charger, or plug a cable into a socket (which had better not detract from the appearance of the loco), any of which is the potential to derail trains, damage detail parts, and /or require significant amounts of off-layout space for all this activity, is a non-starter. And my old hands and eyes don't like tiny plugs. Getting my cell phone plugged in can be annoying at times.
3) Layout wiring can be complicated, but like a house, it's mostly a "once and done" affair. It's not like I have to re-run bus and feeder wiring every session.
4) With nickel silver track, soldered track joints, and adequate feeders, my track cleaning takes about 15 minutes a month with a rag and some denatured alcohol.
5) The expense of wiring, breakers,etc, is also pretty much once and done. No matter how good the battery, it has a limited number of cycles on it. Replacing batteries periodically would consume funds that I can find better things to spend on.
6) The time and effort necessary to convert my existing layout and locos would likely be prohibitive. 
7) Supercapacitor technology has largely eliminated the pitfalls of momentary power interruptions.

Honestly, the "drawbacks" of wired layouts, as expressed by the so-called "dead rail" crowd, strike me as much like an infomercial -- exaggerated to the point of silliness.

While I'm always excitied about new ideas, I just don't see this one reinventing the hobby any time soon. The devil is in the details, and while in broad brushstrokes you can see some clear benefits, the details of implementation pretty much derail the idea from a model railroading perspective.

Reasonable enough for you?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

G scale (large train) has battery powered available. It is not self charging. You are right
it gets rid of wiring track and the worry of dirt on the track. The fact that it is only on
large scale trains tells me the batteries are too large for our smaller scales.


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## RT_Coker (Dec 6, 2012)

New technology (including Direct-Bluetooth-Train-Control) is coming to the hobby. But it is a slow process something like relieving yourself up-wind. Robotic and LiPo battery technology is just too good and inexpensive to pass up (in my minority opinion). 

You will not see much in the way of support from train hobbyist and manufacturers most of whom are deeply invested in the old technologies like DCC and have little interest in the future of the hobby. 
Bob


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Cost would be the deal killer here. The new DCC locomotives on the market right now are significantly out of my budget. Plus the need is not there. I can wipe down my tracks and clean the wheels of my locomotives for virtually nothing. 
I just don't see the hardship in running with DC and/or DCC is great enough to spur sufficient interest in the hobby "at this time". No doubt this technology is in the future, but I don't see it taking off any ways soon.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Hot Wheels "Sizzlers" have been around since 1970. They had little motors and NiCad batteries. I'm sure companies in the "toy train" market at the time (like Tyco) must have fiddled with adapting the technology to locomotives.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The micro technology is there for anyone that wants to use it. 
I have tried it in G scale using older, larger components designed for cars. The newer micro stuff would be no problem in O scale and I think that Bachmann (and maybe others) already has some stuff for HO scale out there. The only problem that came up for me was having a long enough antenna to get through the tunnel!


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

With the purely battery operated train, there's no need to take the trains off to charge them. While it may seem like putting all of the wiring issues back in, you could simply have the track charge the batteries. The difference would be that there would be designated areas (where your locomotives would be sitting during down-time anyway) that you would wire.

The place I see value in the "battery operated locomotive" is more like a UPS, where the battery takes over for a short time when power isn't up to par. So, with this idea, the battery wouldn't need to be super long-lasting, it's just there to keep the locomotive rolling when it passes a bad spot. Maybe only needing to be able to power the locomotive for a second or two. This would also help with issues like how picky two axle locomotives tend to be.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

Redrider said:


> Plus, if you could use trickle charge technology coupled with turning the spinning electric engine into a generator, you might find some revolutionary way to recharge under power. When the batteries reach a certain percentage low, the trickle charge kicks in, and the moving train wheels spinning the generator that has built up charge, is allowed to feed the batteries that charge which helps keep your train going for another 30 minutes.


There is merit in using battery power. The biggest challenge are probably the packaging implications. 

An alternative, although still taking power from the wheels, would be an AC feed and control circuitry inside the loco for rectification and speed control. That would solve the loop problem.

However, what you describe in the quoted paragraph is perpetual motion. That ain't gonna work. Hybrid or electric vehicles use the vehicle's kinetic energy to spin the motor as a generator and the power needed to do that slows things down. Kinetic energy in a model RR train is nil. So no dynamic braking. And no magic, either (getting out more than you put in).


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## PhillipL (May 5, 2012)

Back in the 1980's when I was in the service n Italy, Lima model trains did have a battery operated transformer which was powered by several 9 volt batteries.


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## Redrider (Apr 19, 2017)

I understand completely. O Gauge is what I deal with. I can see where you are coming from on the HO scale. Too small and compact for any battery installation. Plus some other replies I've seen talk about cost effectiveness. Just trying to find some way to eliminate the boxes and wires. Thanks for the reply.


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## Redrider (Apr 19, 2017)

Thank you. I appreciate the response.


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## Redrider (Apr 19, 2017)

Blue tooth. I had never thought of that. Thanks. This at least tells me the companies are moving toward trying to cut down on wires and boxes.


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## Redrider (Apr 19, 2017)

Just joking around, maybe you could install tiny satellite dishes at each end of the tunnel


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## Redrider (Apr 19, 2017)

And thanks to your information I know that now. This question is teaching me all sorts of things I didn't know. Thank you


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

mopac said:


> G scale (large train) has battery powered available. It is not self charging. You are right
> it gets rid of wiring track and the worry of dirt on the track. The fact that it is only on
> large scale trains tells me the batteries are too large for our smaller scales.


You are correct. When I was in G there was a large segment of the hobby using batteries because most of the track was outdoors. Many times the battery pack was placed in a trailing car behind the loco. Guys just changed packs for fresh batteries. Covered gondolas were very popular for this method. The size of G scale made it possible.


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## RT_Coker (Dec 6, 2012)

An HO flat car can easily carry two 7.4 volt, 2.5 ampere-hour batteries and they are an excellent match for HO and some of the existing low-cost robotic hardware.

Here is a picture of one of the batteries powering the robotic hardware. (The large power cables are not needed and have been removed in the next test setup.) If this can be done without custom parts, image what manufacturers could do with customized parts.
Bob


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

In the early days of automobiles, every conceivable form of power was experimented with, and most came into production...gas, diesel, steam and electric are ones I can think of. The latter two went off-market before long as being too inefficient, too expensive, too heavy, and/or too dangerous.

In recent years the people at Tesla and other car companies reconceived the idea of electric cars running on batteries. Battery technology had advanced to where much longer distances could be traveled using smaller, lighter batteries, and recharging could be done in less time.

I wonder about a company somewhere who is working with battery toys of all kinds, especially the drone companies, who might expand into model trains. Look how far drones have come in 10 years, and imagine what 10 years of invention could do for the model train market.


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

Google up "Dead Rail Society" for some of the in's and out's of battery power for model RR's. As noted above, lots of G-scalers use battery power to avoid the issues of track cleaning and operating in the great outdoors. Using high-efficency motors, O and On3 modelers can get several hours of operations per charge.


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

Fire21 said:


> In the early days of automobiles, every conceivable form of power was experimented with, and most came into production...gas, diesel, steam and electric are ones I can think of.


There was also some tinkering with a gun powder fueled engine, back in those days. I wonder why a vehicle whose fuel tank could literally be considered a bomb didn't work out.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Ko Improbable said:


> I wonder why a vehicle whose fuel tank could literally be considered a bomb didn't work out.


The space shuttle was considered a success.....with one or 2 exceptions.....:laugh:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

RT_Coker said:


> You will not see much in the way of support from train hobbyist and manufacturers most of whom are deeply invested in the old technologies like DCC and have little interest in the future of the hobby.
> Bob


I actually don't see that as much of a barrier. All it takes is for one company to see a business opportunity to increase profits or sales at the expense of the competition and these things will take off.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

As I understand, Super Capacitors may have the opportunity to replace batteries in the future. They are safer and possibly in the future, greater capacity.


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## RT_Coker (Dec 6, 2012)

CTValleyRR said:


> I actually don't see that as much of a barrier. All it takes is for one company to see a business opportunity to increase profits or sales at the expense of the competition and these things will take off.


I don’t see much of a chance that a wagon will break out of the circled-up-wagon-trains. I think the circled-up-wagon-trains will look outside their circle one day and see a dust trail to the future up ahead and maybe realize that they are being left behind by themselves to bury their dead and watch their “valuable” possessions... 
Bob


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

RT_Coker said:


> I don’t see much of a chance that a wagon will break out of the circled-up-wagon-trains. I think the circled-up-wagon-trains will look outside their circle one day and see a dust trail to the future up ahead and maybe realize that they are being left behind by themselves to bury their dead and watch their “valuable” possessions...
> Bob


I guess I have more faith in the entrepreneurial spirit than you do. I heard the same thing about cars and computers, videotape, etc. in the past, and yet they have all managed to evolve with advancing technology.


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## RT_Coker (Dec 6, 2012)

Here is an HO flat car carrying two removable 7.4 volt, 2.5 ampere-hour batteries and they are an excellent match for HO and some of the existing low-cost robotic hardware. The three wires are ground, 7.4 volts for the control-board and 14.8 volts for motor-control-board. 

Even though I am a so-so modeler this battery-car should be good enough to show the potential of an installation done by an experienced modeler.
Bob


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

*my prediction on battery powered trains*

First, I would tend to agree that companies doing well or getting by making model train things will not be the source for battery-powered options. If there are developments in that direction they will come from some new company looking for an opportunity (most likely) or from hobbiests with interests for which battery power provides something they need other than novelty.

As for myself I am far to busy to be a model railroader myself UNLESS I could do something that I think would require battery power (and in an HO size). That would be an improvement in the practicality of setting up a system OUTDOORS. I speculate, for example, if it would be practical to set up a fairly large outdoor layout using a battery-powered engine and track made by taking a hard, flat material and simply cutting a pair of grooves where the wheel flanges would go. Engines and rolling stock that closely resembles the real thing are, to me, not important.

yeah, I know I'm the only one not out of step.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I figure by the time that battery power takes over, I'll probably be in the sunset of my train running years.  I'm sure it'll make significant inroads in the next few years, several companies are already flogging it. There are several at York every year.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Lee Willis said:


> If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.


Generally good advice but the relevance here eludes me.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

For DC it is a good idea. DCC, different story. With DC, a boxcar housing a li-po 3s battery (11.1 volts) a receiver (RX) and an electronic speed control (ESC) would do it, and of course a transmitter (TX). There would still be room for a low voltage cutoff (LVC) to protect the li-po from discharging past the safe zone. All this is old school RC stuff and the parts are cheap.I don't run 4 hour op sessions so an hour would be fine and with the rpm's the loco is turning, I would assume the battery would last a long time even powering a LED headlight. Three wires to the loco, variable DC, ground, and constant volts to the headlight. Now you got me thinking as I have a box of RC parts!


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

fred588 said:


> Generally good advice but the relevance here eludes me.


Transformer power isn't "broken." It's a proven technology that has been around for decades. There's nothing that needs to be fixed.

People are enamored with all things battery. Mobile devices are driving that. However, with model trains the only things that will be eliminated are connections and track cleaning.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When I can have robust sound and a couple of smoke units working for a full operating session, I'll be looking closer at battery power. It's not there yet. 

*You can always pick out the pioneers, they're the folks with the burning wagons. *


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

highvoltage said:


> Transformer power isn't "broken." It's a proven technology that has been around for decades. There's nothing that needs to be fixed. People are enamored with all things battery. Mobile devices are driving that. However, with model trains the only things that will be eliminated are connections and track cleaning.


Exactly. Thanks for pointing that out highvoltage, it is exactly what I meant by my remark. 
Anybody who thinks rechargeable batteries or supercapacitirs are going to be an improvementmight want to look to the Faller Car System to see what would be in store for them. It is a marvelously ingenious system of small road vehicles for N and Ho layouts, with rechargealbe super caps that power them, available in analog or digital control. When done right it is magical, the cars follow hidden wires under the road and drive around your layout automatically. 

But as I point out in my book _Guide to Model Cars, Trucks and Buses on a Model Train Layout,_ Chapter 2, you have to be prepared for serious expenses, due to the charge/discharge cycle of the supercaps in them (not removeable/changeable). I go into some details there about how satsifactorily these rechargelable things work on a layout, or not. Summarizing here, a vehicle runs for about 20 minutes and then takes an hour to recharge. To have one running on the layout all the time, you need four - three will in various states of charge and one out there running and discharging, and you will have to switch in out every 20 miles. For a layout like my N gauge layout a few years ago, with five vehicles running at any one time, that meant 20 vehicles, and I was changing out a vehicle every five minutes for one freshly charged, which also got old. And at $250 per vehicle, the cost of 20 vehicles was a lot. I got of the system mainly because it was such a pain to use, not due to the cost. I now you Bachmans EZ-Street on my O-Guage layout, which has cars powered traditionallly. 

With a loco, you could make the battery removeable and you would need only the one loco, but still need three chargers and three extra batteries to keep in running full time, and be changing it out about every 10 minutes, I'd guess. 

Again, nothing is broken with traditional thru-the-rails power, so I don't think anything needs fixing.


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## RT_Coker (Dec 6, 2012)

Bwells said:


> There would still be room for a low voltage cutoff (LVC) to protect the li-po from discharging past the safe zone.


The LVC circuit can usually be eliminated by using the processor’s power control features. 
Bob


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## morland (Sep 25, 2012)

The only thing I would find a battery powered train useful for is if I was doing a small display at a show or event and didn't have access to a power outlet. 

I did see an interesting Bluetooth battery powered board for HO scale trains from BlueRail Trains. Check their videos out on their website, scroll down until you see "BlueRail Trains – Battery Operation and Dead Rail kit"

http://bluerailtrains.com/videos/


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

highvoltage said:


> Transformer power isn't "broken." It's a proven technology that has been around for decades. There's nothing that needs to be fixed.
> 
> People are enamored with all things battery. Mobile devices are driving that. However, with model trains the only things that will be eliminated are connections and track cleaning.


Exactly my point. As I tried to say in my original post, my only interest in this is to construct an OUTDOOR model railroad in HO. I am well aware that the outdoor environment would create havoc with a system in which power is delivered through the rails.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Actually, if you're doing an H.O. layout outdoors, power supply will be the *LEAST* of your problems....hwell:


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Actually, if you're doing an H.O. layout outdoors, power supply will be the *LEAST* of your problems....hwell:


What I have in mind in a good deal less complex than you probably imagine. Picture a single track from point A to point B, the ONLY decorations being what could be seen by a camera mounted on or in the engine, possibly a loop at each end, an engine whose appearance does not matter a whit, and no rolling stock. The total length from one end to the other would probably exceed 200 feet. 

I am probably being over-sensitive but I interpret the "oh well" as on the condescending side.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Please don't take it as condescending.....that was obviously not the best emoji to use......

This may be a better one when considering an outdoor H.O. layout....


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

fred588 said:


> What I have in mind in a good deal less complex than you probably imagine. Picture a single track from point A to point B, the ONLY decorations being what could be seen by a camera mounted on or in the engine, possibly a loop at each end, an engine whose appearance does not matter a whit, and no rolling stock. The total length from one end to the other would probably exceed 200 feet.
> 
> I am probably being over-sensitive but I interpret the "oh well" as on the condescending side.


I think the concept of having trains outdoors gives most of us the chills. But that's because we are in a hobby that historically has been mostly used indoors. We envision our sets and then try to imagine all that in the elements. As Old_Hobo said: 

In your case a battery powered train used for a specific purpose might be doable. However, battery powered trains produced and sold to the masses are not here yet in any appreciable numbers. Maybe in the future. Battery technology continues to evolve, lithium technologies available today were not feasible decades ago.

I'm not preaching to you, just making a point to the general readership.


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

highvoltage said:


> I think the concept of having trains outdoors gives most of us the chills. But that's because we are in a hobby that historically has been mostly used indoors. We envision our sets and then try to imagine all that in the elements. As Old_Hobo said:
> 
> In your case a battery powered train used for a specific purpose might be doable. However, battery powered trains produced and sold to the masses are not here yet in any appreciable numbers. Maybe in the future. Battery technology continues to evolve, lithium technologies available today were not feasible decades ago.
> 
> I'm not preaching to you, just making a point to the general readership.


Understood, and appreciated. What I would like to do is entirely different from 99.99 percent of model railroaders, at least.


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## hefyjefy (Jun 7, 2017)

Battery power has to be the answer. Its also more realistic if you do the re-charging thing, although I can't see kinematic re-charge working, not enough mass. So your layout is for most part steel rails, that go realistically rusty (we don't care), when the switches get rusty you grease them. And you have to get back to the engine shed to take on fuel/water/coal and the rails there have the charging current. - Perfect!


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

hefyjefy said:


> Battery power has to be the answer. Its also more realistic if you do the re-charging thing, although I can't see kinematic re-charge working, not enough mass. So your layout is for most part steel rails, that go realistically rusty (we don't care), when the switches get rusty you grease them. And you have to get back to the engine shed to take on fuel/water/coal and the rails there have the charging current. - Perfect!


Thank you for the reply. For what I have in mind there would not be any switches, just a straight, and LONG, run. The track might even be plastic or wood, and the engine simply has to move without derailing. Everything would be viewed from an onboard camera.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

fred588 said:


> Understood, and appreciated. What I would like to do is entirely different from 99.99 percent of model railroaders, at least.


To what end?


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Cycleops said:


> To what end?


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=1936458&postcount=39


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose is. You have a 200 foot straight track with no switches and no turn-around. You put a camera on the train and view everything from the engineer's perspective. OK, great, but doesn't that get boring after a few runs?


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

```

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gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm not entirely sure what the purpose is. You have a 200 foot straight track with no switches and no turn-around. You put a camera on the train and view everything from the engineer's perspective. OK, great, but doesn't that get boring after a few runs?


Well, suppose things within view of the engineer might change from run to run. Sorta like what might occur viewing from the cab of a real train?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

So, you're running the same length of track and just changing the scenery? I'm just trying to understand what the point is.


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> So, you're running the same length of track and just changing the scenery? I'm just trying to understand what the point is.


I am not changing the scenery. It will change itself. I am not at all inside the box of being interest in a model trail - I am using the mechanics (some of them) of a model train to look at the world from a different perspective. With a little luck the "engineer" might see a giant rabbit. Or maybe the track will be obstructed by a huge acorn.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Could do the same with an RC car, a Drone, anything that moves where you could mount a camera.....you're just choosing to do it with a model train.....whatever floats your boat, I say.....

Hope you enjoy, no matter what.....


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I can understand and appreciate Fred's idea here. The train would run outdoors and his videos would just register the same run with whatever changes nature throws in. I can see him doing these videos in all seasons, recording the changes in plant growth, wind-whipped items, insects and all that. Even a giant rabbit! A most interesting idea!

I also believe that battery power would be about your only solution, considering what weather might do to the tracks...rust, mud, sand, leaves, etc.

Best of luck, and keep us posted on results. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Could do the same with an RC car, a Drone, anything that moves where you could mount a camera.....you're just choosing to do it with a model train.....whatever floats your boat, I say.....
> 
> Hope you enjoy, no matter what.....


Yes, of course, although a drone (as I understand them) could not get the very low to the ground angle of view. An RC car would but I think using track would lead to smoother movement and the inclusion of the track in the view of view might result in some interference with the brain's interpretation of scale that might be interesting.


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Fire21 said:


> I can understand and appreciate Fred's idea here. The train would run outdoors and his videos would just register the same run with whatever changes nature throws in. I can see him doing these videos in all seasons, recording the changes in plant growth, wind-whipped items, insects and all that. Even a giant rabbit! A most interesting idea!
> 
> I also believe that battery power would be about your only solution, considering what weather might do to the tracks...rust, mud, sand, leaves, etc.
> 
> Best of luck, and keep us posted on results. :smilie_daumenpos:


One more out of the box. None of this may ever come to pass, of course, but I will keep you posted if it does.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

fred588 said:


> One more out of the box. None of this may ever come to pass, of course, but I will keep you posted if it does.


So you're basically just looking at documenting scenery and surroundings. You need a way to mount a camera so it moves through the scenery. This might be done several times, possibly spanning several months as the scenery changes. A train just happens to be one mode of transportation that came to mind. 

From our perspective, we're firmly engrossed in all things train related, so our answers will be from that perspective.

I might also suggest trying a camera or photography forum. They might come up with solutions from different perspectives than us.


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

highvoltage said:


> So you're basically just looking at documenting scenery and surroundings. You need a way to mount a camera so it moves through the scenery. This might be done several times, possibly spanning several months as the scenery changes. A train just happens to be one mode of transportation that came to mind.
> 
> From our perspective, we're firmly engrossed in all things train related, so our answers will be from that perspective.
> 
> I might also suggest trying a camera or photography forum. They might come up with solutions from different perspectives than us.


I have been involved in photography for better than 50 years, 12 of those semi-professionally as a videographer. As a videographer I know that the view from a moving camera is less interesting than the view from a moving camera that includes something that defines scale (even if that definition is intentionally misleading) and/or that just includes something recognizable besides just the scenery. For an example of the latter, a picture of a stream seen from a bridge is less interesting than a picture of a stream with a fisherman seen from a bridge.

In my opinion, the track provides both. If it is done well it will provide a point of interest and a misleading (perhaps misdirected would be a better word) idea of scale. The train and camera are, of course, nothing more than a very small camera on a very small dolly (actually sometimes referred to a "rail" dolly. 

I know that other model railroaders have mounted tiny cameras in an engine as I have seen examples of their results on YouTube, and collected some for repeat viewing. I would simply copy what those people have done except for the difficulties of the outdoor environment - hence the battery power need.

I do realize that the majority of people here are interested in traditional model railroading and/or railroading but I would hope not everyone is entirely limited to that in their interests.

Finally I am not so much interested in "documenting" scenery as in simply observing it from a different point of view than usual. Seasonal change would, of course, be an added element to that.


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## Rook (Nov 5, 2017)

When they started asking you "to what end"....VR came to mind. Or better yet Enhanced VR:smokin:


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## fred588 (Jan 11, 2017)

Rook said:


> When they started asking you "to what end"....VR came to mind. Or better yet Enhanced VR:smokin:


I presume by VR you mean Virtual Reality. Not the answer here. It might be if what I wanted was just a cab ride view or just some other entertainment. In this case, however, the goal is a different and entertaining (to some) way of viewing actual reality.


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