# Dime Trick works great but....



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

After checking the proper gauge with a dime I found that a couple wheel sets on a tender were out. When I went to adjust them, I found that the wheels move freely on the axle. Is there a "trick" to keeping them in place besides glue like super-glue? :dunno:


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> After checking the proper gauge with a dime I found that a couple wheel sets on a tender were out. When I went to adjust them, I found that the wheels move freely on the axle. Is there a "trick" to keeping them in place besides glue like super-glue? :dunno:


Are the loose wheels plastic or metal? If plastic I've used super glue and it works fine as long as the wheel isn't so worn that it slides easily on the shaft. Most times the plastic wheel is the loose one even with a metal wheel on the other end. If the metal wheel isn't too loose I've put a drop of super glue on the inside of the wheel. Remember if glue gets inside the hole it can cause a loss of continuity between the wheel and axle. Generally the wheels get out of gauge when they are pried out of the truck with a screwdriver instead of spreading the side frames on the truck. Hope this helps.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

*from the archives...*



BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> After checking the proper gauge with a dime I found that a couple wheel sets on a tender were out. When I went to adjust them, I found that the wheels move freely on the axle. Is there a "trick" to keeping them in place besides glue like super-glue? :dunno:


Could you elaborate on this 10 cent trick? I've never heard of it and doing a search wasn't much help. Thanx.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyerFan said:


> Could you elaborate on this 10 cent trick? I've never heard of it and doing a search wasn't much help. Thanx.


The Dime is exactly the proper diameter so that when it is placed between the wheels the proper gauge can then be measured. I hope this helps but there are many more like Flyernut and Cramden who aro more expert. Welcome to the forum and enjoy the expert advice that is freely given.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I'll definatley check that out. Thanx.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

If the wheel that is loose is the pick-up wheel, I'd say it's time to replace it. If it's the plastic wheel, some CA glue will stop it.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

No, the wheel isn't loose, but I'm having problems with the front trucks staying on track. In a thread I've seen fixes; adding weight, or replacing the cone spring(s). One truck has a collapsed cone spring. One has no spring. I'm gonna order a couple of springs and try that. From an exploded diagram, it looks like the cone spring is oriented so that the small opening is up, against he sliding washer. Is that correct?
I'm up unusually early to let the dawgs out.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I think the washer on top of spring is correct. I am a huge believer in the cone springs.
I had 2 steamers that could not keep their front pilot wheels on the track. Not even 1 lap. Since installing springs they have not come off the track even once. Can't ask for more than that. I threaded them on the exiting rivet. Not an easy task. I need to get more springs and new rivets. Its an easy task with a new rivet. I have also heard of using the long drawbar screws. Hole needs to be drilled some. I do not remember the size.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The 2 engines I added cone spring to did not come with springs so I do not have the washer. Still works. My most recent purchase is a 332AC northern. It needs a spring.
Really bugs me if pilot wheels come off, plus it will cause a derail, especially if wheels catch on a turnout. It will flat lay an engine on its side.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

mopac said:


> I think the washer on top of spring is correct. I am a huge believer in the cone springs.
> I had 2 steamers that could not keep their front pilot wheels on the track. Not even 1 lap. Since installing springs they have not come off the track even once. Can't ask for more than that. I threaded them on the exiting rivet. Not an easy task. I need to get more springs and new rivets. Its an easy task with a new rivet. I have also heard of using the long drawbar screws. Hole needs to be drilled some. I do not remember the size.


I read this on your previous thread a while back, and got to thinking about trying it.

I've seen 2 different exploded views of that cone spring; 1 from an E-Bay seller (SSSTrains) and 1 from an American Flyer view. I didn't think it really makes a difference. Both of my front trucks do have that fiber (I believe) washer in place.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Worth a try. They work for me. Even a new spring does not have a lot of spring to it,
but they work. Just enough spring to keep the pilot from floating up off the track. I
have heard of adding weight. The spring seemed easier.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Worth a try. They work for me. Even a new spring does not have a lot of spring to it,
> but they work. Just enough spring to keep the pilot from floating up off the track. I
> have heard of adding weight. The spring seemed easier.


I have used both methods. The spring works but was very hard to install unless you replace the rivet also. Mopac knows the best solution as to replacing the spring, new rivet and washer. 
What I found easier was weights. And I had some on hand! My LTS had strips of N Scale weights with sticky backs. They fit perfectly in the pilot truck and seems to provide enough weight in keeping the trucks engaged to the track.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You do know that those are automotive wheel weights, right? You can likely get them FAR cheaper on eBay by looking for wheel weights.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I have used both methods. The spring works but was very hard to install unless you replace the rivet also. Mopac knows the best solution as to replacing the spring, new rivet and washer.
> What I found easier was weights. And I had some on hand! My LTS had strips of N Scale weights with sticky backs. They fit perfectly in the pilot truck and seems to provide enough weight in keeping the trucks engaged to the track.



I saw that too. I do have some weights in garage (for a motorcycle tire).I'm gonna try both; springs first.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

One more thing to consider. I do not know correct answer. Small end of spring up or down. I put mine up. Either might work


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I think I'll try small end up, against the washer, first. Then go from there. Thanx for the info.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

The only parts diagrams that show the pilot spring are the K-5, the Hudson, and the Northern. All of them have the small end of the spring facing down. They aren't showing them on the Atlantics or the 200 series Pacifics.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

cramden said:


> The only parts diagrams that show the pilot spring are the K-5, the Hudson, and the Northern. All of them have the small end of the spring facing down. They aren't showing them on the Atlantics or the 200 series Pacifics.


It may be because some of those engines you mentioned use the die-cast front trucks, which are heavier.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If the leading truck wheels are perfectly gauged and freewheeling and the pilot truck assembly is not bent the wheels should not derail even if there is no spring. In 100% of the cases on my layouts a derailing pilot wheel was caused by uneven track. In most cases the track looked good but laying a short 2' level along the track would reveal gaps between the bottom of the level and the rail. It is common for Gilbert track to get distorted or bent over time and these imperfections are not always obvious. I took a quick look at two engines I have out, both have sheet metal pilot truck frames, no springs and they do not derail.
Gilbert turnouts are made with a crimp in the rail where the points rest to preclude the wheels from picking the points. Sometimes they will anyhow. Being somewhat lazy I usually just replace that turnout with another one. As a last resort the pilot truck wheels can be set to a 1/10" narrower gauge to usually resolve the derailing. That only works with Gilbert and GarGraves track and turnouts. 
As a last, last resort I suppose we could run only diesels, 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's on the layout!


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

AmFlyer said:


> If the leading truck wheels are perfectly gauged and freewheeling and the pilot truck assembly is not bent the wheels should not derail even if there is no spring. In 100% of the cases on my layouts a derailing pilot wheel was caused by uneven track. In most cases the track looked good but laying a short 2' level along the track would reveal gaps between the bottom of the level and the rail. It is common for Gilbert track to get distorted or bent over time and these imperfections are not always obvious. I took a quick look at two engines I have out, both have sheet metal pilot truck frames, no springs and they do not derail.
> Gilbert turnouts are made with a crimp in the rail where the points rest to preclude the wheels from picking the points. Sometimes they will anyhow. Being somewhat lazy I usually just replace that turnout with another one. As a last resort the pilot truck wheels can be set to a 1/10" narrower gauge to usually resolve the derailing. That only works with Gilbert and GarGraves track and turnouts.
> As a last, last resort I suppose we could run only diesels, 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's on the layout!


Checking track with a level is a good idea, never thought of it. My track has moved from the dining room to the master bedroom, and now it's upstairs in a spare bedroom (since X-mas); my wife is the stationmaster I'm afraid. I've got a fair amount and pulled some obviously bent or twisted pieces out. Whenever I move, I rotate track out and give it all a good cleaning, otherwise I'm lazy in that respect. Obviously my layout changes and isn't fastened down. My 3 steamers do track pretty well, but I like high speeds sometimes and that's the biggest cause! They don't call them American "Flyers" fer nuthin!


I'm sure you have yours tuned up and running better then when they were new.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Flyernut's engines all run better than new, mine run almost as good as new!
If the layout is not fastened down it is a challenge to get to zero derailments. I run my Gilbert engines much faster than my modern Legacy engines.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyer said:


> Flyernut's engines all run better than new, mine run almost as good as new!
> If the layout is not fastened down it is a challenge to get to zero derailments. I run my Gilbert engines much faster than my modern Legacy engines.


I too have some problems with de-railing but I believe it's all in my lay-out. I have slow spots and at certain places on my lay-out, on curves, the tracks are always coming apart. I know what the fixes are, but I'm too lazy, and I just can't get under the table any more because of the old back. I have a small section of lights that are out, and a jumper has become dislocated somewhere, but I have 3 separate loops, so I just test run on another loop.. Did I mention I was lazy??


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

You think you are lazy, I don't even have a layout. I still say it is coming. LOL.
On the cone spring and washer, which end of spring does the washer go? I don't
have an AF book.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Tracks coming apart will for sure cause derails. I have been buying track locks off
ebay as I find good deals. They work. I think I have close to 80 of them. I try to
buy them as close to .50 including shipping as I can. Although if track is nailed how
do they come apart. Track locks are good for floor layouts. Which is what I have.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

My current setup (the 3rd this winter) is only about 30 pieces of track in a spare bedroom on the floor. My sling is now off, but it's a chore getting up and down; I'm no spring chicken.

I watch for those track locks too. They really help since I'm not fastened down. $ .50 is a good price for them.You just got to keep your eyes open. I won't/don't need to buy rusty equipment anymore.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

I have never had a pilot derailment. My layout track is all AF with K-Line curved. I bought the K-line because of the broader curvature other wise all the rest of my track is genuine American Flyer with well tuned American Flyer switches. 
By well tuned I mean all points snap closed as they should, and all rails are flat with no raised points that would catch pilot wheels. All rolling stock are gauged so everything runs through the switches easily. 

Attention to details seems to have paid off for me. I forgot to mention, my track is fastened down. Not with nails or screws but glued ballast. I also use a small 8" long level. Handier than bigger ones. 
I have a digital micrometer from my race engine building days that I used on every piece of track for consistent track height before laying any track. I have hundreds of pieces of track so I had an ample supply to choose from. 
Unless there is obvious tie damage, most track will mike pretty close in height. A small tweak is sometimes needed. 
My attention to detail goes for every thing in my train world. A habit left over from my race engine building days. 

If I ever develop any of the issues you guys describe, and I know my track is still okay, I now know ways to fix pilot issues.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AFGP9 said:


> I have never had a pilot derailment. My layout track is all AF with K-Line curved. I bought the K-line because of the broader curvature other wise all the rest of my track is genuine American Flyer with well tuned American Flyer switches.
> By well tuned I mean all points snap closed as they should, and all rails are flat with no raised points that would catch pilot wheels. All rolling stock are gauged so everything runs through the switches easily.
> 
> Attention to details seems to have paid off for me. I forgot to mention, my track is fastened down. Not with nails or screws but glued ballast. I also use a small 8" long level. Handier than bigger ones.
> ...


I do the same thing with all my engines and rolling stock, and anytime I do a repair, that's the last thing I check. All of my turn-outs like-wise have a great snap, function properly. I love working on the switches, and I have approx 8 on the lay-out and around 8 pairs packed away.


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