# What brands to avoid? Locomotives



## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm trying to replace some of my old locos... they just keep dying on me. Which brands are best, which brands to avoid?

I just bid on a Model Power 0-4-0 Santa Fe steamer. I'm into steam, circa 1850-1890. I'm not having any luck with anything larger than 6 drive wheels, and they have to be set close together!

What about Tyco? And the others? 

This is NOT going to be a super expensive top of the line layout, just something for me to play with in my "golden" years. Not a lot of $ on Soc Sec.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

All depends on your budget...steam makes it even harder.

Most of my experience is diesels....and just about any of the newer engines will outperform Tyco, etc from the 70's/80's. I've got a couple Bachmann Silver series engines that are decent (although 1 is definitely better running than the other.) 

Try to get something with all wheel power pick-up to avoid stalling through switches (my kids Tyco stuff tends to stall), and those with 2 powered trucks pull better than single truck power.

Not sure of the drivetrain in Life-like or Model Power engines. They are at the low end of the scale. Bachmann are a little better. 

If you look around - you can get a Proto1000 engine for around $50. 

I also have a 2-6-2 Prarie (Bachmann) that runs very well (does want to stall on the longer #8 switches.) I picked it up for $65


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Everybody has their own views, I once thought the TYCO "powertorque" 2-8-0's were bad, then I fixed mine!  And hence it opened up my heart. It's like Charlie Brown's Christmas tree. Their not that bad (I don't understand why everybody makes a big deal)! Every old Mantua, TYCO, AHM, Rivarossi, Athearn, and many more! It's a great experience to work with the old timers, and they have character. Take pitty on them, they may just teach you a good thing or two!


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## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm in the market too.... I'll spend some money, but not the several hundred dollars that most are bringing. What are the better options above the Bachmann's? I really want a Big Boy, but it may be out of the budget too.

Another question partially relating to this, what's the significance of the numbers, such as 4-8-4, and 2-6-2?


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

I don't even know what brand most of my locos are... I threw away the boxes years ago, then stored them for 10 years... so they the traction tires are all shot (Just ordered a jar of Bullfrog Snot). 

I'm not into reconstructuring locos yet, tho I do have quite a collection of dead ones! My best little diesel switcher, that always ran, no matter what... well, stupid me, I tried to clean its lil wheels with CLR... and must have gotten too much on it and it got into the guts.  

Nuther one fell off the track, no more than 3 inches fall, now it's wheels are outta whack. My lil D&RG has lost its traction, just sits and spins and spins and spins... 

Sorry, I'm venting. I just am getting discouraged. It's not fun to play when the toys don't work.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

jonyb said:


> I'm in the market too.... I'll spend some money, but not the several hundred dollars that most are bringing. What are the better options above the Bachmann's? I really want a Big Boy, but it may be out of the budget too.
> 
> Another question partially relating to this, what's the significance of the numbers, such as 4-8-4, and 2-6-2?


I can answer that one!! the first number is the number of leading wheels, the second is the number of drivers, and the third is the number of "trailing" wheels! Leading and trailing are just load bearing.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

jonyb said:


> I'm in the market too.... I'll spend some money, but not the several hundred dollars that most are bringing. What are the better options above the Bachmann's? I really want a Big Boy, but it may be out of the budget too.
> 
> Another question partially relating to this, what's the significance of the numbers, such as 4-8-4, and 2-6-2?


Those numbers designate the wheel configuration. 4-8-4 means 4 unpowered wheels in the front 8 is the 8 wheels that are powered and the final 4 means it has 4 unpowered wheels in the rear. 0-4-0 means 0 in the front, 4 powered wheels in the middle and 0 trailing wheels. Now you can look on the shelf at your LHS and say "how much is that 4-8-8-4 on the top shelf?" LOL
-Art


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

My advice to jonyb, get an Revell of Germany/Revell Big Boy, put it together, and find a suitable motor for it! That's the practicle thing to do, by what I figure(!); much cheaper than an MTH or somting, second best option, a second hand AHM/Rivarossi!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

jonyb said:


> I'm in the market too.... I'll spend some money, but not the several hundred dollars that most are bringing. What are the better options above the Bachmann's? I really want a Big Boy, but it may be out of the budget too.
> 
> Another question partially relating to this, what's the significance of the numbers, such as 4-8-4, and 2-6-2?


Rivarossi has some well priced Big Boys on ebay if you dont mind used. Average is $120 for a good clean one with little wear. SOunds like alot until you price out new ones at $350 

The numbers indicate the wheel arrangement. The first number is the lead wheels, the second (and third in some cases) indicates the number of drive wheels, and the last number is the trailing wheels under the cab. So a 2-6-0 would have a single axle, followed by three drive axles, with no trailing axles under the cab. I thinks its called the Whyte notation.



penlu said:


> I don't even know what brand most of my locos are... I threw away the boxes years ago, then stored them for 10 years... so they the traction tires are all shot (Just ordered a jar of Bullfrog Snot).
> 
> I'm not into reconstructuring locos yet, tho I do have quite a collection of dead ones! My best little diesel switcher, that always ran, no matter what... well, stupid me, I tried to clean its lil wheels with CLR... and must have gotten too much on it and it got into the guts.
> 
> ...


I personally like Bachmann, but thats what I grew up with. Really ebay is going to be your best bet to finding cheap locos. :thumbsup:


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I have had that plastic kit from revell and am not to fond of it. Athearn make a nice BigBoy with sound smoke the whole chabang for around 300 a rivarossi is most likely going to be 150 on up. No one said this hobby is cheap and it isn't if you want a bigboy you will need to save up for it. Tyco is not all bad it just depends on the engine really, Life like and model power are the lowest and cheapest of all the engines but you are getting what you pay for when you buy those and its not much. They use the same outdated pancake type motors that tycos and early Bachmanns used its best to just avoid them.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

If you want a wheel arrangement that is closer together than what you see then you will want to go with early 1900's to 1950s engines. The early engines had really large wheels and they were set far apart to assist with traction. Older engines didnt have very large cylinders or boilers so power and traction were kinda limited and one way to help was to move the rear most wheel back almost under the cab to provide that extra traction. In the early 1900's the technology changed in the valving of the cylinders which could allow higher pressures for more power but that required a larger boiler. The larger boiler helped with the traction due to the extra weight but the drivers needed to be smaller to handle the added weight. Moving them closer together helped manage the weight of the boiler as well but they found that there needed to be some weight bearing wheels under the cab to hold up the rear of the engine and allow the front drivers to maintain traction. 
One of the most successful engines on the rails was the 4-8-0 Consolodation. This engine seemed to have the right balance of power, weight and traction. Many different versions were made and most all railroads used them. The 4-8-0 first showed up around the early 1900's and some ran well into the 1940's being replaced by the 4-8-2 whch had a little bit better traction due to the wheels under the tender.

So if you move your desired year up a few then you can get the engines you are looking for and find lots of options. Bachmann makes a 4-8-0 in many road names and it is a great runner. I have 2 of them. You can usually E-bay them for less than $100 used and about $120 new. They are in the Spectrum line so they are high quality engines.

Massey


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> I have had that plastic kit from revell and am not to fond of it. Athearn make a nice BigBoy with sound smoke the whole chabang for around 300 a rivarossi is most likely going to be 150 on up. No one said this hobby is cheap and it isn't if you want a bigboy you will need to save up for it. Tyco is not all bad it just depends on the engine really, Life like and model power are the lowest and cheapest of all the engines but you are getting what you pay for when you buy those and its not much. They use the same outdated pancake type motors that tycos and early Bachmanns used its best to just avoid them.


Well said. Just a few words about the diesel side of this hobby. Even Athearn blue box engines, as well as they run, Athearn RTR, Athearn Genises, Atlas, Atlas Trainman and Kato run much better. If one wants an engine that one is not going to hve to constantly fight to run, then one needs to look for these basic qualities.

1) All wheel drive. 
2) All wheel electrical pick up.
3) Dual flywheel drive with super smooth drive train for optimum 
performance at all speeds

5) Five-pole skewed armature motor for reliable performance

The most economical brands with these qualities are Atlas Trainman and Athearn RTR. Atlas Trainman engines have the same motors and drive trains as those of their more expensive master series engines. If one is willing to sacrifice some outer detailing in lew of a great running engine, then buying one of these is a very sound purchase.

The modern Athearn RTR is basically a cheaper result of the technology put into Athearn's more expensive Genises line, as some of the technology that has gone into Atearn Genises has trickled down to Athearn RTR. And as with the Atlas Trainman engines, Athearn RTR engines are a great value for the buck. Some Bachmann models have all of these qualities as well, but unfortunately they are somewhat few and far apart. 

With engines made by Life like and Model Power however, one takes his chances. One cannot expect engines made by these two companies to run anywhere near what Atlas or Athearn do. Like gc said, one only get's what one pays for. So the big question that one has got to ask one's self is; Does one want to run trains almost flawlessly and have a lot of fun doing it, or does one want to have to fight them to run and build up a lot of frustration while doing so? 

If steam engines are more of your cup of tea, then read what other posters here have written about them as they have more experience with steamers than I do.

Routerman


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## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

trainguru said:


> second best option, a second hand AHM/Rivarossi!


I started looking at the Rivarossi's actually.....



cabledawg said:


> Rivarossi has some well priced Big Boys on ebay if you dont mind used. Average is $120 for a good clean one with little wear. SOunds like alot until you price out new ones at $350
> 
> The numbers indicate the wheel arrangement. The first number is the lead wheels, the second (and third in some cases) indicates the number of drive wheels, and the last number is the trailing wheels under the cab. So a 2-6-0 would have a single axle, followed by three drive axles, with no trailing axles under the cab. I thinks its called the Whyte notation.
> 
> I personally like Bachmann, but thats what I grew up with. Really ebay is going to be your best bet to finding cheap locos. :thumbsup:


Thanks for the advice and the info on arrangement. That explains it. I'm not totally against ebay at all. There is one local hobby shop, and I always try them first, but in this case I'll probably go the used route. Also, I don't mind Bachmann at all. I've got a couple Bachmann engines now, but one of them - a DCC DD40AX - just doesn't run very good at all. It's not smooth and has to run pretty fast to keep I guess I kind of expect that for what I spent, and you honestly get what you pay for in this market.



gc53dfgc said:


> I have had that plastic kit from revell and am not to fond of it. Athearn make a nice BigBoy with sound smoke the whole chabang for around 300 a rivarossi is most likely going to be 150 on up. No one said this hobby is cheap and it isn't if you want a bigboy you will need to save up for it. Tyco is not all bad it just depends on the engine really, Life like and model power are the lowest and cheapest of all the engines but you are getting what you pay for when you buy those and its not much. They use the same outdated pancake type motors that tycos and early Bachmanns used its best to just avoid them.


Good info for all engines..... I'm not trying to cheap out on this, I've done that in the past, it's just that I want to get into some type of DCC locomotive that works well, without the MTH pricing.



jzrouterman said:


> Well said. Just a few words about the diesel side of this hobby. Even Athearn blue box engines, as well as they run, Athearn RTR, Athearn Genises, Atlas, Atlas Trainman and Kato run much better. If one wants an engine that one is not going to hve to constantly fight to run, then one needs to look for these basic qualities.
> 
> 1) All wheel drive.
> 2) All wheel electrical pick up.
> ...


Thanks for that post Routerman. I've been looking at all brands, and I can almost tell what's better, but knowing the characteristics to look for really helps.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

If you're not too picky about the roadnames - you can typically find some decent DCC or DCC/Sound engines at http://www.trainworldonline.com/ I got an Athearn Genesis DCC/Sound SD60 for $160. It's a GREAT engine. It's also dual-mode (i.e. it will run both DC or DCC)


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Buy used, there are a lot of neat models out there, and it's a great way to recycle! And with the older ones, it's easier to do what you want detail wise!


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## Nolackofwanna (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi 
If I can throw my two cents in on this , when it comes to Diesels what has been said about the inexpensive Life Like and Model Power engines is basically true, you get what you pay for. The exception that I've found with Model Power is their "Metal Train" series which are very good engines in my opinion. I have a Tyco F7 Diesel thats super strong and will pull almost any load I hang on it , I also have an early Bachmann which was a salvage job that is very smooth and strong. The Steam engine that has given me the most work is an IHC Mikado in their Command XXV line; I've had to work on it a lot to get it to run reliably and without derailing. My remaining power is a mix of Athearn, Rivarrossi , Bachmann, Trueline , and Roco all of which I have no issues with.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Strange I own a Southern Pacific IHC Mikado and find it to be one of my top runners, the only problem is one of the bolts that holds the driver rod on one wheel comes undone depending on my direction but I think I got it tight enough now that that is not an issue and even then their is some loctite.


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## Nolackofwanna (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi
To perhaps qualify my problems with the Mikado, the tender was the problem, the link between the Loco and the tender kept binding when going through switches and curves preventing the tender from following properly causing the derailing and the dcc adapter board was full of cold solder joints so even before I could deal with the tender binding I had to get it to run without the controller at full output. I cleaned and increased the tension on the truck pickups and had to clean and re-solder all of the joints on the dcc adapter board.The loco itself was fine, the connector between the Loco and the tender is a touch fragile and is best left connected even when storing the engine assembly(again my opinion).
So far its been performing well.


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