# Thick or Dark Smoke



## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I've noticed a big difference between the type of smoke that can be produced by model trains (which is rather thin and whispy) and the kind of thick and sometimes dark smoke made by the prototype. https://youtu.be/Cx5tHB_aw4g?t=151 Is there any way we can get this kind of thick and/or dark smoke down at the HO scale level? Or is it not possible.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

It's not possible as things stand, but in fact the real rails didn't like black smoke. It indicated over-firing and was a sign of waste. If you can believe it, steam locomotives were eventually banned in the largest US cities in the east. Passenger trains and freights had to be handed over to gas-electric or electrical traction motors at the edge of town. This happened prior to WW I.

The largest rails had inspectors who drove near the tracks and watched timetabled trains go by. They held cards up against the sky and compared darknesses of smoke depicted by blotches on the cards with what they saw issuing from the stacks of passing locomotives. They would record smoke that was too dark and the hogger would get 'written up' at the end of his run by the trainmaster.

You didn't ask, but I don't use smoke. I turn if off as soon as I get a new engine. To me, it isn't the least bit prototypical, and the old hands tell me it adheres to the scenery and the rails over time.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Simulating a steam engines exhaust.*

Those are some awesome black and white historical moving pictures of the bye gone days of railroading. The wispy smoke is just a gimmick for ones imagination to take... over, and too help invest more into the "Worlds greatest hobby."The way, it goes now,I heard, the simulated smoke leaves an oily residue on ones layout rails.This oily residue is most likely non conductive. So,additional track maintenance probably would be
in order to maintain good conductivity.Good luck there with that?
:dunno:
Regards,tr1


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

The power of google! A quick search turned up this.
http://megasteam.com/




However, that video is obviously O scale. Since this is just a special fluid and not a generator in itself, would it work in HO scale?

On a side note, what kind of size are more smoke generators for this scale? I'm afraid I'm inexperienced with that - would they fit, say, in a stack? Or would they require more space? I think it would be the latter, but you never know.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

What is produced by scale model trains is more a cloud than smoke. The fluid vaporizes when heated and is ejected through the stack by a number of means. Most common way is piston driven by the wheels. A more advanced method is a fan driven smoke unit that resides beneath the stack in the body of the train.

I don't know of any smoke devices that can fit in the stack, the components required to produce the effect are too large.

Gunrunnerjohn might pipe in and provide more insight into smoke units.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Since you're basically vaporizing mineral oil, only white "smoke" is really possible with current technology. Truthfully, any other color smoke would deposit a lot of undesirable residue on everything around. This gets discussed about once a quarter, but so far it's always the same conclusion. Black smoke would be from products of combustion. Just hold a glass over a candle flame for a couple seconds and see what you get on the bottom of the glass! Do you want that all over your layout?

As far as "wispy" smoke, I beg to differ, when I do smoke it's not "wispy".


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

"...steam engines were eventually banned in the largest US cities in the east." 

In New York City, not only steam was banned but diesels were not allowed through the tunnels into Manhattan. The New Haven ran EP-5's & FL-9's into Grand Central Terminal and the New York Central switched steam and diesels to big boxcab 3rd rail electrics at Croton, NY. Pennsy ran GG-1's into Penn Station.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Since you're basically vaporizing mineral oil, only white "smoke" is really possible with current technology. Truthfully, any other color smoke would deposit a lot of undesirable residue on everything around. This gets discussed about once a quarter, but so far it's always the same conclusion. Black smoke would be from products of combustion. Just hold a glass over a candle flame for a couple seconds and see what you get on the bottom of the glass! Do you want that all over your layout?
> 
> As far as "wispy" smoke, I beg to differ, when I do smoke it's not "wispy".




John,
I take it that locomotive is Super Chuffer equipped. Cough, cough! My wife would throw me and it out of the house if I brought that in, and I wouldn't blame her one bit! It would defiantly kick off her asthma.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, yes, it has the Super-Chuffer and an MTH smoke unit.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Its very nice John!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, yes, it has the Super-Chuffer and an MTH smoke unit.


Seeing as MTH does have some HO scale locomotives with that kind of smoke unit, is it possible to acquire the smoke unit itself and retrofit it to another locomotive? The locomotive I wish to put it on is a Bachmann Spectrum K4 Pacific.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

:appl:


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

Dreadnought said:


> I've noticed a big difference between the type of smoke that can be produced by model trains (which is rather thin and whispy) and the kind of thick and sometimes dark smoke made by the prototype.


of course there is both smoke from the fuel being burnt and waste steam coming out of the stack.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dreadnought said:


> Seeing as MTH does have some HO scale locomotives with that kind of smoke unit, is it possible to acquire the smoke unit itself and retrofit it to another locomotive? The locomotive I wish to put it on is a Bachmann Spectrum K4 Pacific.


The MTH HO smoke unit won't smoke like that, but you can certainly obtain one.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I would like the model train smoke to dissipate quicker. After running my BLI smoke
a few minutes the whole room has a cloud of smoke hanging in the air.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Exhaust fan.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The MTH HO smoke unit won't smoke like that, but you can certainly obtain one.
> 
> View attachment 173762


The MTH (as well as some Broadway Limited) models that I've seen have some sort of mechanism to synchronize the puff of the speaker with the puff of the smoke and turning of the wheels - I assume this has something to do with wheel rotation. What I'm wondering is whether that mechanism, including the synchronized puff with wheel motion, can be retrofitted? 

On a side note, where did you acquire that smoke unit? Did you get it from MTH itself or from another source?

Many thanks, Deadnought.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I buy directly from MTH. I have no real idea how non-MTH stuff synchronizes the smoke for HO, so I can't say if it can be retrofitted. I suspect that depends on the decoder you're using.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I buy directly from MTH. I have no real idea how non-MTH stuff synchronizes the smoke for HO, so I can't say if it can be retrofitted. I suspect that depends on the decoder you're using.


How do you order them from MTH, if you don't mind me asking? I can't find anything on their online catalog about ordering smoke generators.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Note my signature line. 

_*MTH ASC Certified Tech*_


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Note my signature line.
> 
> _*MTH ASC Certified Tech*_


I see. So the shortest path to acquiring smoke generators is to seek employment at MTH?

Kidding, of course. So is there not an aftermarket way to acquire an MTH Generator?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can contact an MTH dealer and have them order one for you.


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