# Developing Concepts



## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Good day ladies and gents,

My name is Jonesy, I am 44 years old and until I married (for the 3rd time), I never had any children or even an interest in Trains. My cousin back home in England has always been a train junkie and I just could not understand the fascination.

Enter my Wife and 2 year old son Gabriel. Children... a new concept for me.. I was 37 years old and no kids. Thought I was seriously incapable of having kids. Then I get the "honey I'm pregnant" windfall. 

My "girlfriends" son, even at 2 years old, was a huge train nut. By the time he was 4 he could tell you everything under the sun about trains. We needed to bond to the "girlfriends" ex... long story... however I saw trains as the way to bond with him. He is now 11 and has 5 other siblings... we have 3 and 3 and my wife is pregnant with number 7... guess I was not sterile after all :O)

In the last 9 years, Gabriel has been instrumental in igniting the Train bug in me and his brothers and sisters. I have been buying trains and models (buildings etc.) or several years now. We lost the first set of trains and cars and buildings etc... (about 50 of them plus 20 buildings) when we lost our house by a very unscrupulous landlord who did a few nasty things while I was over seas working. My wife lost all of our things to this man so we are starting again.

We have a family night where we all sit around and build or paint models for the train set. With all of the ideas my kids and wife has, the train set has to be huge to encompass it all. So we have decided to build a room just for the train set at the new house. Since we have purchased this house outright and paid it off 100%, I have no issues with building on and making this as big as possible. Hence the trepidation and my search for a site like this one... I have read through many of the posts, I have seen what you people have done with your own sets. The ideas and techniques used are tremendous. I am in awe and humbled by the talent seen on this forum.

I hope to become a regular contributor, however with my schedule over seas and the time spent with my family, it will be on again off again for this next year, however I look forward to contributing and hopefully getting a lot of feedback on how to or when to etc. Once the train room is finished we will need to build. 

The Idea we have is to make a mini USA or Europe in this room. this will give us mountains (which are my favorite areas), deserts with an old west look, an airport (would prefer a WWII airbase like RAF Little Rissington in England that way I can add a few airplane models too like my spitfires and P51s), coal mine, city scape, ocean and port/docks area, etc etc etc. 

This I know is a huge undertaking and by what I have seen between the pages of this forum, a monumental task that can truly show... yes ... I have been bitten by the Train Bug.

I hope I can call on some of you for advice, and any input regarding this layout (which I have no bloody clue how to start) is going to be most welcome.

I am looking at making this an HO/OO scale set. We have a smaller N scale for my son Gabriel's room so they have an operating set to use while we build the big one.

Can any of you give me an idea as to size of the train room and whether or not it should be built with inside areas, or mostly around the outside or have an island in the middle with another part of the set? I am completely open as to how to start this. 

I know I am in over my head but when the kids ask me, or suggest things for the set, I can honestly only agree to build it. :O) I love my kids dearly and now I am in deep trouble for it :O) hence building a building dedicated to a the train with a separate modeling area bathroom, mini kitchen for snacks etc. My wife has joked about a small room with cots in it so I can sleep there too. :O) Not a bad idea :O).

I will thank you all in advance. Out of all of the train related sites I have visited, the comaraderie here is one of the best I have seen.

I look forward to being a part of this community and building a set that will please all of my kids. I don't think I could do it without your support however as it is a monster build.

Thank you for taking the time to read my introduction to this forum. I look forward to your input.

Jonesy aka Saxon (3rd sons name)


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Jonesy,
Yep kids and or inside kid can get the best of us!
Your build can be as small or large as your budget will allow there really is no limit!
I have invested a lot of time and money into my equipment, track, trains, buildings and scenery. My next layout will be 120' X 55', not a layout for the faint of heart or for starters!
Be realistic in your expectations, research options and plan on a large time investment building your layout with a huge payoff!
I know that everyone here will be more than willing to help anyway they can!


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

NIMT,

Thanks for the words of wisdom. It is actually your posts that nailed me to this forum. The mountain layouts and the how-to have been instrumental in the direction we will be taking things. 

That sounds like a great layout size. Our Train Room will actually be build above our Garage addition that will measure very similar to yours. I need a place for my bigger toys too :O).

Thank you once again and I will be sure to reply and respect all opinions and input.

Thanks for the warm welcome mate,

Jonesy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum.  I'd like to steer you to O-scale, since we're overrun with HO guys, but that's probably just me.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Thanks gunrunner,

I actually picked up an American Flyer Pre War O scale set from Ebay a few weeks ago. It will take a bit of work to clean it up and that is something else I need to figure out how to do. But ... it is an option that has been looked at, though the kids are all over the HO stuff now.

I am going up to norther Michigan shortly to take a look at a very large collection of O-o27 for sale... It is going to take viewing it and that layout along with seeing if my kids are happy with it in order to decide which way to ultimately go... As I said to my wife .... there' always my office :O)

Thanks

Jonesy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Good luck with your setup, hopefully the folks with the O-scale sell you.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Did someone say prewar O? My ears rang happily with that!

Jonesy -- FABULOUS introduction ... informative, exciting, fun. Sounds like you have great plans / ideas for the future.

I'll defer to other guys here for in-depth tips on large-size layouts, but I will offer one fundamental comment ...

In the "around the room" vs. the "within the room" layout options, there is no pure right or wrong answer. A good layout can have a blend of both, with fingers or peninsulas darting into the room from the wall runs. In either / any case, though, there's one governing rule: you should be able to reach over and grab your trains / scenery without too much difficulty. So with that, 3' deep wall runs are easy; 4' deep wall runs are pushing it. On a peninsula (with two-side access), you can have larger ... 6' depth or so.

Have you explored track layout computer software? Several options to consider. I'll mention two here ... AnyRail and SCARM. The latter is freeware with the developer a member of our forum. The forum is well-used by several guys here; you can download a starter version for free. In any case, a software package will give you very helpful resources to explore your layout concepts well before you have to commit to sawdust.

Welcome, good luck, and keep us posted!

TJ


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Tj,

Many many thanks for the input and kind words regarding my introduction. I have always felt it necessary to have full transparency and identification when joining a new group for the first time. I feel it helps to establish a dialogue with others of similar background and circumstance. 

The peninsula idea is one that i had not thought of but would allow the most potential for a large room build. Maybe several 4x16 L shape peninsula's this could give us the options to suit all of the kids and have an area to call their own large enough for all of their ideas... great idea mate. Thank you.

As for the software.. I had no idea such a option existed. I would be appreciate the contact information to try it out. I have a mac so the software would need to be compatible for a mac.

As for the Pre war.. I have always built WWi and WWii airplanes. Love em. Love the era. Getting the O scale Pre war set was a fluke. The items look ok and I have started a thread here that is asking for assistance on the refurbishment of this set. If it is too complicated, or will take too much time to refit, I may sell and stick to something ready made until I have the Train Room complete and time to work on extensive refurbishment projects. This is the American Flyer set so I know it is very collectable. Just dont know how collectable or how rare it is and if refurbishment would decrease its value. Just do not know enough yet, however O scale seemed easier to refurbish than HO/OO.

I will post pics as time goes by on our models for the set that are painted and/weathered as well as the layout and building on the Train Room once it starts.

Thanks again TJ, this reply was most helpful and welcoming.

Cheers,

Jonesy


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jonesy,

That other key decision that you should consider in planning a layout (including best choice of track gauge) is whether you want to run a traditional setup (i.e., track sections powered by individual "blocks" that can be switched on/off), or whether you want to run with a modern DCC (digital) control system. Personal preference ... no right/wrong answer ... old-school vs. new-school. However, the choice of one of the other will have a major influence on your track layout, choice of locos and accesories to acquire, etc. I'd recommend you read up on DCC a bit, and chat with some of the techie guys here. (DCC is the term used for HO, N, and the like ... individual-loco control signals are sent out via a step-function track power pulse. In the O regime, control signals are sent to locos via wireless signals.)

Regards,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> In the O regime, control signals are sent to locos via wireless signals.)


Well... not really.  There is a wireless component to TMCC, that being the ground return through the antenna, but the signal goes down the track common. DCS (MTH command/control) uses the track to transmit the signal.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Travel is hard when you have to leave the family. Not so often now, but I always used a laptop. Now My daughter is in college and we use webcams. I guess the Jetson's are finally here.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

As stated, I started late.. My kids are 8 months old, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 11. Traveling is harder still when they are this age, but skype works really well to keep in touch. 

I think we are at least past Orwell and up to Cockran... Jetsons are but a couple of years away :O)

Jonesy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Gad, you need to plug the hole in the dike, you have six kids?  That should keep you busy without any trains.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Its plugging the hole that got me in this much trouble in the first place :O) The 7th is on the way :O)


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

7? Two is all I could/can handle. Might I suggest the two brick procedure?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd do something about that flood, that's for sure!


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Ha Ha Ha... the flood was never the issue... as far as I am concerned, my wife can have as many as she is willing to take care of :O). I know... a chauvinistic thing to say but ... I will work and bring in the funds and she can take care of her roll. :O)

Jonesy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, with seven (or even more), I'd take your job over hers anytime! :laugh:


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

me too


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks for the wireless clarification, John. DCC-related stuff is not my forte.

TJ


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Yes John, thank you.. I have read up on a few things today... I am still not convinced either way which way to go. The size layout we are contemplating brings up logistical concerns and problems whichever way we go... however all of the information you lads have provided has been invaluable.

Jonesy


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Saxon said:


> ... all of the information you lads have provided has been invaluable.


You haven't gotten our bill, yet! You did read the fine-print invoicing clause in the forum bylaws, right?


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

I am a prolific business man ... there is always a bill  

Maybe I have you in to help build this bloody thing  all expenses paid trip to nashville and you get to play all day  

Jonesy


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

evening lads,

just a quick note to say I am still around.. been in Europe for the last 3 or 4 weeks and should be back at the homestead again soon enough. My kids are yelling at me to get back so we can go back to work on the layout :O) you have to love kids... :O)

Thanks again.

Jonesy


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Welcome back, Jonesy! I just barrelled through your fair town around noon today, headed north for home.


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