# Lionel Semaphores Question



## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

Could anyone please tell me if I can bench test a Lionel #65, #66, #80 and #82 Semaphores with just a Lionel Z Transformer and 2 wires? I read that they have to be hooked up to either an insulated track or universal contactor to run but do I need them to just test their functions? 
The #65/#66 have 2 contact posts on the front of their bases.
I have (3) #80 Semaphores that have 3 wires coming out the back holes marked 1,2, and 3.
One #80 has a wire coming out of #1 hole and another wire coming out of #3 hole - #2 hole is empty.
The #82 has 2 metal contacts on back and there's a smile-like slot with no lever inside it (not sure if there should even be a lever or not) but it looks like something should be coming out of it.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

You might need 3 wires to test a Lionel semaphore correctly.
Find the common terminal and hook it up to the common on the ZW, then hook up one wire from any positive terminal and tap it on one of the terminal screws on the base of the semaphore, the light should light up with power applied or you may hear a buzzing noise that means the semaphore lever or signal arm is wanting to move. You might have to have a wire to both terminals that need a positive to activate the semaphore lever, one works the light and the other works the lever or signal arm.

Lee Fritz


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## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

Thank you, Lee, for your reply. I'll try what you say.


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## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

*Lionel #80 Semaphore*

Lee,
I've been away and this is the first chance I've had to work on these 3 Lionel #80 Semaphores. Your instructions say to 'hook up one wire from any positive terminal and tap it on one of the terminal screws on the base of the semaphore'. These #80's don't have any terminals on the base - just 3 wires coming out from the back. 

Also, would you know how to find the common terminal on the semaphore like you mentioned at the beginning of your reply. I found a picture of a #80 semaphore online and the diagram shows the 3 wires coming out from the back labeled: #1 hole/wire - light bulb; #2 hole/wire - coil and wire and #3 hole/wire - ground. Is the #3 hole/wire always the ground? If yes, then I found my common terminal on the semaphore. 

Hope you can help, if not I'll post again.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Actually you can test it with using two wires at a time. You can't hurt it if you connect the wrong two wires.
As you suspect one wire is common. One wire goes to the solenoid coil that moves the flag and the other goes to lamp behind the flag. If you have two wires that produces a hum and maybe even moves the flag slightly plus turns on the lamp dimly, neither is common. The third wire will be common.
To determine which of the two wires are lamp and solenoid take one plus the common and apply power. You will either get the lamp to light or flag to move. The remaining wire will be power for the other function.
In operation the lamp is wired to constant voltage and the other to the 153 actuator.

Pete


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## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi Norton,
Thanks for replying to me and my post. You gave me confidence to try more bench testing since you said that I couldn't damage it by hooking up the wrong wires to the wrong terminals. I opened up the back of the #80 and figured out the ground wire. I hooked that up to a 'U' terminal on the back of my Lionel 'Z' transformer. Then hooked up one of the other 2 wires to the Z's 'B' terminal while hooking up the 3rd wire to the Z's 'C' terminal. The light worked and the flag raised. Thank you so much for your help.


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## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

Hello Norton,
Would you be able to tell me how to test a Lionel #80 and #82 Semaphore with no wires coming out the backs but both having 2 terminal screws on the back. I took 2 picture of each: one of the back and one of the inside - I hope they can be added to this post so you can see. Its confusing because the #80 has terminal screws coming out the #1 and #3 holes while the #82 has terminal screws coming out the #1 and #2 holes.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I am not familiar with pre war but I assume these don't have lights only a flag that moves? I would guess the numbers on the back don't matter. It appears that both wires go to the solenoid. Energize and flag drops, no? It also looks like someone resoldered the connection at some point and maybe didn't replace the connectors in the same holes.
Apply power and see what happens

OK I looked these up and they should also have three wires. They do have a lamp. 

Pete


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## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes, Norton they have both a flag and a light. I just don't know (again) if I can 'hurt' it by applying power w/o any ground wire. Thanks again for your reply.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Some instruction sheets*

richiemerrill, Here some old instruction sheets that might be of help. If they look like they might be of use, just save them to your computer, and then print them out.


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## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

Thank you teledoc, these are a treasure trove of informative instructions. I'll try to get these semaphores tested.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

That's part of being a forum member here on MTF, is to try to help each other. Some times it takes an effort to find the info, but is a benefit for everyone.


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## richiemerrill (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes, teledoc, this is a wonderful site.


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