# Hope Folks Can Be Friendlier Here



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Vincent - who brought a ray of very different sunshine and color to our forums, apparently left us because of what he perceived as bullying by some members here. Maybe he was overly sensitive, or not, but I hope in the future all of us will try to be a bit less "sharpened sword" in how we reply to posts we think are silly, stupid, wrong, or just don't belong here.

I miss Vincent. He was an individual, for sure.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

True enough Lee.
Vincent always had something to share. And it was interesting to hear what was going on south of the border.
Miss his comments.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

That's too bad. I hope Vincent will reconsider. I enjoyed his post and what he brought to the forum. Focus on those of us who are respectful and considerate.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

In my short time here, I've witnessed that here. Luckily, the offended member didn't leave. And while I'm new here, I've been in forums since before there were forums (BBS). Everybody has things to contribute. It's sad when someone is run off.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

This is sad news. I'll miss reading his posts.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I second the motion. But as I commented in your negativity thread, it’s very easy to shout at someone when they can’t see you. There will always be a few people that can’t resist being an anonymous bully. I just try to ignore the bad actors. As long as the vast majority of us are decent human beings hopefully the trolls will go away. Or maybe better to call them out when they act up. If we all let them know that they are not cool, maybe they will see their error.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Bickering is inevitable but out right attacks and "trolling" should not be permitted. 

People don't have time to deal with "dicks" and they will go elsewhere rather than waste their efforts at a site where they have a chance of being bullied by some jerk hiding behind a keyboard.

If you don't have something nice/constructive to say about a subject, let it pass. There is enough negativity and hostility in the real word, outside of this forum.

Tom


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I usually stay in the S gauge threads, which I love. I sometimes venture into the O gauge threads when I have something important to add.. I strayed into the HO threads many years ago hoping to add something, and that's where I met a few people who were really ***-hats.. Bullying and just making fun of me at my expense didn't set too well with me, and I never went back to that part of the forum... A very good friend of mine once told me..." you can't win a argument with a computer". Truer words were never spoken. I'm glad I stayed....


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

That's to bad that he left but I can understand his reasoning.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Precisely why I try to nip the sharper stuff before it gets carried away. It's distressing to see folks leave because of a negative environment.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Love it here, it's the only train forum I belong to, and the only one I WANT to belong to.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I have noticed that we ignore negative post and that person eventually stops posting.


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

there may be some negative posts here but nothing like other forums.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2019)

Most of the folks here are friendly and polite but there are a few trolls who like to stir up trouble. I agree with Denny, if we don't engage the trolls by taking their bait they will get bored and go back to their caves.

Unfortunately, one needs a thick skin when participating in social media.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

One always needs a thick skin. People also need to take a hard look at what you're doing here -- if all you seek is affirmation, the internet is probably not a good place to find it. People will be honest, sometimes brutally so.

I try not to hurt people's feelings, and I try to refrain from posting if I don't have anything nice to say, but things are often misinterpreted without the visual clues that go with normal conversation. I don't think outright bullying is ever appropriate, nor should we be on making personal attacks on people we disagree with, but we can disagree about things, and provide Frank criticism without doing so. And we need to be able to do that. If this becomes a site where al, we do is tell each other how awesome we are, and then hold virtual hands and sing Kumbaya together, the forum won't be worth much.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

I am very sorry to hear this.

Vincent always came across as a cheerful person filled with joy. Goodness knows we can all use some of that.

I consider Vincent a friend even though we never met or communicated outside this forum.

I always wished him well, as there were some hard things going on in Mexico with fuel and such.

Frankly, the posts that are what I assume drove him away were not trolling. They were downright cruel and unrelenting.

There are plenty of internet forums on which folks can be abusive to each other. This is not one of them and one of the great appeals was that this forum seemed a safe haven from internet cruelty and stupidity.

If anyone come across Vincent on some other model rr forum, please tell him that his friend Nikola says hello, misses him, and wishes him well.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Thanks to Lee Willis for starting this thread. I feel that the loss of Vincent is a black mark on this forum.
His outlook and comments were ‘out of the box’ in some respects but his creativity and imagination are unique. 
I think the situation was clearly that of someone picked on because they are different. 
Maybe we can all learn from this and keep the snark to a minimum? So how much is too much? 
I’m reminded of an old joke where a cop stops a driver for running a stop sign. The driver says “Well, I slowed down!” The cop takes out his night stick and starts hitting the driver in the head. Then he asks the driver “ Now, do you want me to stop, or slow down?” 
I think we all know the answer to that. 
I hope Vincent reads all these comments and returns to the forum.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Without going through a lot of past posts, I'm not sure who Vincent is. Is he the one that had some odd spelling now and then?
No. Wait. That might be any of us. I like to see correct spelling but I can usually figure out what is meant. I am more concerned about some of the Anglo-Saxon three and four letter words that sneak in once in a while. We like to think we are adults here but sometimes some youngsters drop by. 
I think Vincent also asked questions for which he needed answers to add to his enjoyment of model railroading.
I am also a friend of thread drift.
Very sorry to see anybody leave a forum.

Some years ago when I was returning to model railroading after not being able to participate for 52 years I found my first forum. It was the one from which some of you departed and came here. I didn't stay long because I could not get answers to simple questions. It often took days to get any answer that was helpful. I got some "cute" ones that were useless to me but eventually someone did give me some answer that I could use.

I found MTJ and MTF and no longer post on OGR or CTT.

I hope Vincent will come back.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

rogruth said:


> Without going through a lot of past posts, I'm not sure who Vincent is. Is he the one that had some odd spelling now and then?
> No. Wait. That might be any of us. I like to see correct spelling but I can usually figure out what is meant. I am more concerned about some of the Anglo-Saxon three and four letter words that sneak in once in a while. We like to think we are adults here but sometimes some youngsters drop by.
> I think Vincent also asked questions for which he needed answers to add to his enjoyment of model railroading.
> I am also a friend of thread drift.
> ...



Here to save you time.....Vincent.
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/member.php?u=60538
This might explain as to why he felt like he had to leave?
(I don't think it had nothing to do with spelling)
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=177650&page=2

Though I think he should have stayed and just ignored the........pick your own word to as what you want to call the perpetrator. There could be more then one.

Vincent brought into the forum a different, unique way to enjoy model Railroading.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

I'd use "instigator". "Troll" is too kind.

While I'm new here, I've been in too many forums. I joined up in one, and in perusing the place, without a single post, I deleted my membership. Believe it or not, there are forums without any moderation or rules.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

Big Ed said:


> Here to save you time.....Vincent.
> https://www.modeltrainforum.com/member.php?u=60538
> This might explain as to why he felt like he had to leave?
> (I don't think it had nothing to do with spelling)
> ...


I had never seen that particular thread and IMHO the comments in question crossed the line. 'Junk' stores? Really? 

And, gentlemen, before we all take ourselves too seriously: we are adults playing with toy trains. Nothing wrong with it, but no fair to rag on someone because their version of what we all do is more imaginative.

I would rather live next door to Vincent than that other dude.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Nikola said:


> I had never seen that particular thread and IMHO the comments in question crossed the line. 'Junk' stores? Really?
> 
> And, gentlemen, before we all take ourselves too seriously: we are adults playing with toy trains. Nothing wrong with it, but no fair to rag on someone because their version of what we all do is more imaginative.
> 
> I would rather live next door to Vincent than that other dude.



I'll second that, really enjoyed Vincent's post going to miss them.

Magic


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

I always say there are two sides to every story. Different people have different ideas of humor. 

I enjoyed Vincent's posts, but in some he did push the envelope to. 

I do agree the site could be a little friendlier. We all love the same hobby, no matter the detail, the era or the scale. 

I will miss his posts. He had a very good sense of humor and I think sparred the best he could.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

He's still around, in fact he was online when I posted this. Just hasn't had much to say lately. He definitely has unique tastes and hopefully he will start posting again.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Friendliness must be "in the eye of the beholder" because I really don't understand why or how this site could be considered to be unfriendly. Maybe a few posters are not friendly but that doesn't set the tone for a whole site. And it is not a site that is controlled by moderators ( read censors if you like).


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Reach Out!*

I just left a PM on his PP and said to give it another go! Vincent was pretty energetic about this Hobby and some of us can go WAY BACK in time and remember some goofy questions we asked or did something on our Layout that was considered dumb... So come back Vincent and give it a GO!!


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*He's still here!*



highvoltage said:


> He's still around, in fact he was online when I posted this. Just hasn't had much to say lately. He definitely has unique tastes and hopefully he will start posting again.


10:49 on his Profile page as I left a message...so he's still orbiting our Little World...ergh...Forum:thumbsup:


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

rogruth said:


> Friendliness must be "in the eye of the beholder" because I really don't understand why or how this site could be considered to be unfriendly.


First: As one that use to come and post here, offered my experiences with building several structure kits, etc. and even helped sell some of these kits. Then I made the mistake of asking for advice on how to handle a situation were I was cheated by a very famous upgrader on one of my ABA sets. Only to find out months later that what I paid for wasn't what was done nor the parts that were to be put in and priced, rather older, refurbished boards put in. Well soon afterwards whenever I posted, no comments, etc. would be added, in other words, I was ignored. Then an private message said I should move on and away. What I posted was uncalled for, even though I never mentioned a name. Yet the messaged named the correct person. So, I moved on and only stop here to view for any helpful posts.
As to our friend from the North, I personally know 2 people that no longer come here because of his "Bullying" type personal belittling people attitude, no mater the subject.

What is really funny, is that after I was negative to another Forum. I received an E-Mail asking what happened, then asked to come back and join the group.

So yes, speaking only for myself. There is a lot of negatives here. Be it slamming other groups, or manufacturers. Rather, ignore the other groups if nothing but a negative response can be written, (same neg. over and over and over why someone left, etc.). As to problems with a product, state the problem and how its going to be remedied, rather then constantly writing over and over how one is no longer going to buy from them. Then 6 months later, new products come out and previous promise to no buy is forsaken.

Yes, without even trying here, many are driving people away from here with their posts and what they say. To be honest, if I hadn't moved away from here and realized what I did, said, and results from that, I would have taken up another Hobby. Moving on, helped me, and made me see what is actually happening here.

Its the few here, that spoil it. Hopefully the majority will step up and make this Forum a leader in not only "O" but all model railroading enjoyment.

Sorry if I stepped in, but I see and read, and some results aren't good.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Walter,
You quoted me and I appreciate that and your answer. I read everything on MTF that concerns O scale/gauge and a few other things. Once I have read a topic I seldom read it again unless I receive a link to it so I may miss some stuff. The title of this topic is what I have always thought would be good for all, "Hope Folks Can Be Friendlier", and I still do.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2019)

There are at least 3 members who have either left or greatly reduced their participation here because of negativity, Walter, Art and Vincent and there are probably more. That should tell us something. 

By the way, I purposely used the word "Troll" earlier to soften the tone of my post.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

A question. What about moderators? I belong in almost 20 forums of different interests, and am active in 4 (multiple posts per week). In most of these, a moderator will step in and take action. Having read the (possible) offending thread, I thought (IMHO) the action was mild. Every forum is different. Over in Wooden Boat, there is a section (appropriately named "The Bilge) where it seems abusive behavior is almost encouraged. How many mods are here?

Just curious.


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## Roving Sign (Apr 23, 2017)

I gotta say - I don't get any of this.

Read his original post - it's snarky, disingenuous and unspecific.

And then goes as far as calling it "fraudulent"

Sounds like a topic that would be way better addressed with some specifics and a nicely put question.

Like "Help me understand this video on page 245 in the 2019 catalog?

How about a catalog page reference?

How about linking to the video you're referencing (but calls an "advertisement")???

Has anybody here watched the video?






I just did - and I can't see how it could be construed as "fraudulent."

I think its pretty cool (sorry Eric!) - and very straight forward. Perhaps one of the better demonstration videos this crew has produced.

I suggest everyone watch the video - and then re-read the original post.

And frankly the rebuffs were pretty tame. And had a smiley! He even seemed amused.

If you bring the snark - expect a bark!!!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Finally, a non-kangaroo court member who gets it! 

I merely called out a very negative post, albeit in a very negative way.....wait, doesn't a negative times a negative make a positive? I believe it does! :laugh:



Roving Sign said:


> If you bring the snark - expect a bark!!!


I think I found a new signature, mind if I use it?


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Some people are more sensitive than others. How can we know what their limits are until someone breaches them? Since there is no vocal inflection in typed messages, how can we tell if what someone says is angry, sarcastic, indifferent, or humorous? Unless there is an emoji with it, we have no real idea.

I currently belong to a racing forum. We have a member who is upset and threatening to leave because another member suggested she accept a new rule. If she is offended, that is her interpretation. If she leaves, that is her choice. That's life.

Seems to me that the same goes here..


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## Roving Sign (Apr 23, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Finally, a non-kangaroo court member who gets it!
> 
> I merely called out a very negative post, albeit in a very negative way.....wait, doesn't a negative times a negative make a positive? I believe it does! :laugh:
> 
> I think I found a new signature, mind if I use it?


All yours Old Hobo!


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## Roving Sign (Apr 23, 2017)

Fire21 said:


> Some people are more sensitive than others. How can we know what their limits are until someone breaches them? Since there is no vocal inflection in typed messages, how can we tell if what someone says is angry, sarcastic, indifferent, or humorous? Unless there is an emoji with it, we have no real idea.


There was an emoji - and I thought Vincent seemed humored by the response.

Are we sure Vincent might just have other things to do?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> Finally, a non-kangaroo court member who gets it!
> 
> I merely called out a very negative post, albeit in a very negative way.....wait, doesn't a negative times a negative make a positive?


Hardly a kangaroo court. Any decent human being that reviewed all the evidence would find the perp guilty. And the obvious lack of remorse will only increase the sentence.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So now who's being intolerant? You read, and I assume you can read, roving sign's rather accurate description/evidence of the event, and you still think that he was done wrong? There are none so blind, as he who will not see.....

I would show remorse, if there was cause to....if he couldn't take that minor heat, and you have to admit it was minor, unless you are not being honest with yourself, maybe the kitchen isn't for him.....

Bark bark!:laugh:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Time to close*

The cause for this thread started with a response from Old_Hobo, and he just made the last addition. Some of you are getting repetitive with comments, which is serving no useful purpose. So this thread is getting locked.

Lee Willis tried to make an attempt to get some of you to look at yourselves, and act like adults. Things have been getting away from the Friendlier side of this forum.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sadly, the attempt by Lee has failed, we still have people acting like schoolyard children. hwell:


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