# What is with this MTH junk?



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

I have an MTH engine that has to sit on the tracks and run for a while before it will actually move....ie, if i hit the direction button on the remote the light flash off for maybe 2 secs then they come back on but it won't move. Normally it sits for maybe 10 mins then it runs fine. Worked fine yesterday. Both of my other engines (Lionel 665 and 2011 MTH GP-38) run just fine so that should rule out any track issue.

Problem now is that it will sit for an hour and 'idle' but will not move. The batt was changed out last year and the board the year before.

Any ideas what could be going on here? I am so sick of this thing and it's constant need for maintenance......perhaps I ought to build out my set using lionel stuff from now on.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, if you told us the exact model number of the MTH locomotive, that would be a big help.  Is this a PS/1 or PS/2 locomotive?


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

It's a PS/2, locomotive from the CSX Spec Freight Set......close to 20 years old. I can check the model # tomorrow, do not know it right off hand.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Model is F40-PH (Railking)..........messed with it a bit more just now, still no luck. It does not appear to be locked in neutral, checked that as well.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm talking the exact MTH model number, in the format: 30-xxxx-x

After 20 years, I suspect it may not owe you anything. Sitting 10 minutes and then running sure sounds like a battery issue.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

it does.......but with the batt only being a yr old you'd think it'd still have plenty in it. Going to look around here, I thought I had also bought a spare batt when I repl the one that's in there now.

Any idea where I can find the other model #? It's not listed anywhere on the box or the outside of the engine.....do I need to take the shell off?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you can tell us the cab number. That and the type is usually enough to find them on the MTH site.

Try removing the battery and running. PS/2 will run without a battery, just won't store the new settings on power-down.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

# on side is 9993....looks like 30-2275-1

going to take the batt out now and try it, be back in a bit. 

I hope it is something easy, I was planning on giving this set to my son for a starter set and cannot afford a repl engine right now.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Would this be your locomotive: http://www.mthtrains.com/content/30-2275-1


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Yes, that's it.

Batt is out, still does the exact same thing. This shouldn't be the issue because my other engine runs fin but perhaps I should check the track voltage just to 100% rule it out in my mind.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

At this point, I'd probably take the boards out and plug them into my tester. It's hard to know what has happened. That's the older 5V PS/2 board set, and those do die suddenly for no reason, I have one of my own engines that the boards just up and died, waiting on the replacement now.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

the board was repl 2 years ago...........cost $186

sigh......going to take it over to my local shop tomorrow am if he is open and see if he can get it to run. A few mins ago I was messing with it and I pressed the whistle and it started whistling and wouldn't stop, had to power it down to stop the whistle.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you have a local MTH repair shop, they should be able to address it. If not, I can get it running for you, I am an MTH tech.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks....will keep you posted. If it is the board again then i'm just going to end up selling the engine, it is cheaper to just buy a new or used one.


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

The exact symptom of a bad battery is the engine powers up but when you hit the direction button the engine powers down for a second and re-boots. The battery could be bad or the charger could be defective.

MTH offered a plug in charger so you could recharge your engines prior to running them. A better way is to substitute a capacitor battery eliminator. Capacitors charge quickly and will hold a charge long enough for you to cycle out of neutral.

Or you could buy a newer engine.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

sure sounds like the batt.......but I changed it out with a new alkaline last night and got the same response.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Do you have a photo of the board set? If it was replaced last year, they should have replaced them with the 3V board set, the 5V set has been unavailable for years.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

I do not........and I dropped it off @ the shop this morning. Actually i think the board was repl 2 yrs ago and the batt last year. I think my age is starting to wear on my brain already!

He seems to think it's stuck in neutral but I can't see that with the troubleshooting I've done already. What worries me is that it didn't change when I took the batt out.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A board replaced two years ago should have been the later board set. The 5V boards have a nasty tendency to up and die for no reason.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

so i should be gtg on that.....these trains are driving me nuts right now with this quirkiness. At least my GP-38 hasn't disappointed me yet.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

mdh157 said:


> so i should be gtg on that.....


Maybe.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Well, I got it back and it's running. The guy @ the shop had it on the DCS? system and had it running within 5 mins. Turns out it is the battery. Right now it has a NiCad one in there but he and I had a long talk abt what a good idea it is for me to switch to a NiMH batt and get myself a charger because otherwise it'd take close to 12 hrs to get it fully charged by sitting on the track idling. He also says the NiMH will last a lot longer than the NiCad. I don't normally have my trains up but plan to do so more often as they are better off running (as you all know).

Brought it home and it had to sit for about 2 hours and idle before it would move - i've had it running slowly around the track for the past 1.5 hrs and will do so til abt 10 pm, then i'll run it again tomorrow. What a relief that it wasn't the board!

Thanks for all the input and, as usual, you guys are spot on with the analysis. Now that it is running I can give it to my son and this week we will go down to the shop and he can pick out another car of his choice (assuming he is well behaved until then!).


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can buy the MTH charger for $16, it charges both types of batteries in the tender, no need to leave it idling on the track. I wouldn't leave it running, if something happens that stalls it, say it tosses a traction tire, you can cook the boards in a flash! 

If you had a NiCad, it wasn't replaced anytime recently, no matter what they said. Those have been out of favor for years. I also question the board replacement, since you obviously have the 9V battery, which makes that the 5V logic board.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

I ended up turning it off earlier than i intended last night, wheels started squeaking a bit on the curves.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There's no reason to have it moving to charge the battery. I prefer the battery charger, but if you need it charged without one, just power up the track and don't do a startup, it'll be silent while it charges. If you only have conventional (no DCS), just turn the volume down and let it sit on the track.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Well I had it running today - for a while. It would run and sometimes just stop as if I had pressed he emg button, but i noticed there was an area of the track that was sparking when this was occurring, always the same spot. I removed the track piece and replaced it and let the train idle for 10 mins, then ran it for abt a half hour. It ran perfectly, no issues at all. I then moved the platform 180 from the way it was sitting to the rest position where i intend to keep it and now the damn thing won't move again. it sat there the past 1.5 hr idling but acts as if the batt is low when i try to get it to move. The batt is new and charged so I am sure that is not it but my patience is about gone with this already. I should note that when i moved it all i had to do was slightly lift one side and move it around 180 deg, it never left the table it was sitting on so no reason to think something shook loose.

ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the track is sparking, I'd fix that first!


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

It is fixed John......or at least it was!

more to come.........


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

well, here's what i got now.......the older engine will not run, sits and idles fine but no movement, it sat there for 5 hours last night but no movement when you try to put it in gear. The new engine (cab number 7319) runs good but there is a section if track where it surges, the movement is jerky, but only in that section of track. This is not the same section I replaced earlier in the week when the sparking was occurring. I am going to remove a section of the track and make sure there is nothing metal under it that is causing an issue. It is very strange that it was fine after I replaced the track section but this started once I tightened the section down again. This is a wood platform so I wouldn't expect and issues like this, but you never know.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The new engine sounds like you still have track issues, there's no reason for the engine to misbehave only on one section of track.

The old engine, I'd remove the battery and see if it'll do anything. It should run under command control with no battery.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Just spent abt an hour and a half on it, the section of the track where it surges/jerks still does the same thing even though I switched out that section twice, no matter what its as if nothing has changed. This next thing I'm going to try does not make sense but I cannot figure out what else to do: going to take the backside of the track out where i swapped a bad piece out on Sunday and see if I can figure anything out there.


----------



## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

mdh157 said:


> well, here's what i got now.......the older engine will not run, sits and idles fine but no movement, it sat there for 5 hours last night but no movement when you try to put it in gear. The new engine (cab number 7319) runs good but there is a section if track where it surges, the movement is jerky, but only in that section of track. This is not the same section I replaced earlier in the week when the sparking was occurring. I am going to remove a section of the track and make sure there is nothing metal under it that is causing an issue. It is very strange that it was fine after I replaced the track section but this started once I tightened the section down again. This is a wood platform so I wouldn't expect and issues like this, but you never know.


what kind of track? maybe you are hitting something where you are tighening it down


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

just spent another hour plus on it........no luck. There is def a track issue but i'll be darned if I can figure it out. Problem is the track looks just fine and the contacts seem good but it's obviously not.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Maybe the section to the left or right of the problem area is to blame? Just an idea.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You need to use a load and move along the track and check for voltage drops. This is when my voltage measuring car comes in handy.  I use a pair of 8 ohm 75W resistors in parallel to run along the track to provide a load and just roll this to see what voltage drops I'm experiencing.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

John, you have EVERYTHING.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I have to make some of the stuff like the voltage car.


----------



## scottramsam (Dec 30, 2013)

Try letting the section of track you replaced just sit on the table without securing it down. I had the same surging problem with my track, I came to realize that one of the contacts was twisted on the end of the track and not making good contact when the engine rolled by. I went thru all my Realtrack on hand and discovered that about 90% of the left hand rails were longer than the plastic road bed which made the track not lay flat on the table. I used a cut off wheel in a Dremel tool to grind the ends of the rails flush with the plastic road bed and have not had any problems so far.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

This is MTH RealTrax? That happens all too often with that track, those contacts are pretty fragile and easily damaged.


----------



## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

MTH trains are *not* junk. Second best only to Lionel & Marklin. I own a 1994 premier Pacific steam loco and a slightly newer Railking 0-8-0 switcher that have been great as any Lionel; they run like Swiss watches. I have many MTH scale cars, too - awesome stuff.


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Just got some time to spend on it this afternoon - there is a section that the new engine hesitates on, mainly just noticeable when it is running really slowly. Have swapped out every pc of track I have and it still does the same darn thing! My guess is the older engine is not charging correctly with the track in this condition so until the track is fixed I am just going to stand by and not worry that something is wrong with the older engine.

Also have talked about going to Fastrack in the past, only thing holding me back is I'd have to buy a transformer and lock-on and cannot justify that expense right now.

wsboyette: I have had nothing but one issues after another with this set.....I will give them the leeway with the track as it has been taken apart/reassembled many times but this engine is one headache after another.........for instance, why does my new MTH engine and my Postwar Lionel run on this track but this one won't? Every possible problem addressed and found to be fine yet it still doesn't run. It's the car that goes to the mechanic and doesn't clunk when it gets there.


----------



## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Oh no mdh157, looks like you must have gotten a lemon there. Ah well, another point scored in favor of Lionel ;-) Is the problem loco Railking or Premier loco ?


----------



## mdh157 (Mar 27, 2008)

Wait til you guys hear this. 

Took it down to my local shop......it ran fine on DCS but would not run on the reg track. He looked it over and said it was not the batt or the track based on what I was telling him. I told him i was going to mess with it a bit more, brought it home, tried it again with no luck. I then took the cover off and looked at it, did nothing other than make sure there were no looses wires, etc. I put it on the track abt 20 mins ago w/o the cover on it and it started and has been running since.

This is a real mystery, no idea if it is going to run for awhile or not but visibly there appears to be nothing wrong. I swear this is going to give me a coronary.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Its haunted.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For those kinds of failures, I put it on my stationary rollers and work it over with the heat gun to isolate what is causing the problem. With the shell on, things are probably getting hotter.


----------



## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

mdh157 said:


> Wait til you guys hear this.
> 
> Took it down to my local shop......it ran fine on DCS but would not run on the reg track. He looked it over and said it was not the batt or the track based on what I was telling him. I told him i was going to mess with it a bit more, brought it home, tried it again with no luck. I then took the cover off and looked at it, did nothing other than make sure there were no looses wires, etc. I put it on the track abt 20 mins ago w/o the cover on it and it started and has been running since.
> 
> This is a real mystery, no idea if it is going to run for awhile or not but visibly there appears to be nothing wrong. I swear this is going to give me a coronary.


mdh157, the fact that the loco runs OK with the body shell off makes me suspect a possible short to body shell to be your problem. You should make sure that nothing electrical contacts that shell. Check the connections on the motor too. As an electronics tech, that's the first thing I would check. Hope you find & fix the problem.

Happy Railroading,
W. S. Boyette


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's a plastic shell, so shorting isn't likely the issue, though you can pinch wires putting the shell on.


----------

