# Puzzled with CV values...TCS decoder



## Brakeman Jake

First the datas...
Engine is Intermountain N scale AC12 Cabforwrad.
Decoder is TCS DP2X
Problem...adjusting the throttle settings.Engine's top speed is slower than on DC but is still acceptable being pretty close to suggestive scale speed.What really bugs me is that it achieves its "top speed" at 50% throttle,no significant change beyhond that.
I did reset CVs 2,5 and 6 at 0 as per TCS instructions to no avail.

This loco is no race horse,even on DC (though somewhat faster),and it's not my goal anyway but I'd like to have the throttle more linear that would really use the 0-100% range.If engine gains a little speed it's OK.BTW,engine's crawl is fantastic,starts barely moving at 1% throttle.

I've tried CV5 at 255...no noticeable change,then tried at 60 then engine barely moves so it seems that CV settings aren't linear.Could it be some other settings of CV5 or is it a combination of different CVs that would fix this?Still learning CV settings and don't want to mess them up and be completely lost.I have two of these setups and both react the same way.Some help would be highly appreciated,thanks.


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## NIMT

CV # - CV Value
Set CV 29 to 22 for 2 digit Decoder (engine) # and 54 if using 4 digit Decoder (engine) #.
Set CV's 67-94 to the in following values
67-0, 68-9, 69-18, 70-28, 71-37, 72-47, 73-56, 74-66, 75-75, 76-85, 77-94, 78-103, 79-113, 80-122, 81-132, 82-141, 83-151, 84-160, 85-170, 86-179, 87-188, 88-198, 89-207, 90-217, 91-226, 92-236, 93-245, 94-255


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## Brakeman Jake

Thanks for the help,I appreciate very much.However,there are numbers that the decoder definitely doesn't like and I have no clue as to wich have to be changed to get the desired results.
I did enter the CV values very carefully as recommended and the results are:
1% throttle...engine makes a "rumbling" sound and starts creeping forward very slowly.It did this before.No change at 2%.
3% throttle...engine goes dead,no more sound,doesn't move
4% it start rumbling again and creeping very slow and steady up to 20%
Then at 20% it starts accelerating very slightly up to 40% throttle.
At 40% it suddenly starts accelerating and is pretty linear up to 60% where it seems to have reached pretty close to top speed.
Then after 60%,there's no real noticeable acceleration until 88% when it suddenly drops dead...nothing after this point.

Most likely,these results will tell you something but to me it's chineese.It may be a single data or a combination of...I'm completely lost trying to understand the logic of a decoder's brain...is it stupid?Hope it's not me..........


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## NIMT

Definitely sounds like your Loco has gone Loco! 
You run other loco's/engines and they are fine right?
Read one of your other locos CV's and give me the values of CV 1, 17,18, and 29.
Can you give me all the CV #'s off of the one acting up so I can see if something there is going on? I know a lot of work!
Did you the install of the DCC Decoder? I have seen some engines act like this when part of the board shorted to the frame, makes for a completely inconsistent running engine! TCS Decoders are pretty tough and I've seen them run even shorted out!


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## Brakeman Jake

Yes I did the install in both these locos (totally similar ones,N scale Cabforward,TCS DP2X decoders).Now the DP2X is an eight pin "plug-in" type decoder so I don't see where I goofed if I did.Lights are working nice,only the throttle setting bugs me.

I've searched the TCS website and found the default CV settings for their decoders.I've noticed that while the numbers you gave me are pretty linear (9-10 increments),the TCS numbers start much slower (4-5 increments) with much larger increments toward the end like...67-2,68-5,69-7,70-12 then towards the end...91-177,92-196,93-219,94-255.This will likely tell you something.Like I said,it's like chineese to me.

I'll read my DCS100/DT400R instruction books to learn how to read the numbers back and dig the numbers you're asking for.However,I have only the other Cabforward with a TCS decoder and it is acting identical(I haven't changed a CV yet on this one).My fine running locos are Kato diesels with Digitrax decoders.Do you want these numbers too?

Lot of work...may be...but it's fun too...and I'm out of the working crowd(illness) so I have plenty of time on hand.


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## NIMT

OK getting better picture!
Does this look like your install?







What you are talking about with the 67-94 #'s is a constant ration curve, also a good way to set them up. I gave you numbers for a linear curve.

If you could give me the CV's 1, 17,18, and 29. for now from both the Kato and the Cab forward, Decoder type, and cab # and I will see if I can get to the bottom of this!


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## Brakeman Jake

I've tried the numbers featured on TCS's website,given as "default settings"and the loco started behaving much differently than when new.Speed increased very slowly until it reached 45% throttle,from then on the speed did increase faster and somewhat linear but,strangely,it still went dead at 88%(DT400 failure???,I can't tell until I try other locos).When new,speed increased fine but wouldn't exceed 50%.But after a few trial runs,the loco went suddently dead(with lights on).I suspected the decoder had fried.Trying to restart it again,I could hear a sound but it wouldn't move...I fear a gear failure,so the testing is over with this one.

So far,I have a feeling that these decoders weren't originally set with the featured default CVs.My only option now is to pull the other Cabforward from its box and read the set CVs to compare with both your numbers and the default CVs.And I'll do the same with another loco and let you know the results but...before all this,I'll have to learn how to do it.It probably isn't harder then setting them in...I simply don't know yet.But learning is fun too...

Since it'll likely take some time,I probably won't come up with numbers until tomorrow....Thanks.


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## Brakeman Jake

Oh...BTW,my install is indeed the picture shown.


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## NIMT

Did you buy your DCS100 new?
When you power it up how many beeps do you hear?
Looking at the front of the DCS100 does the Green light blink?
When you inseart a loco onto the throttle does it say STAT 128 as you insert the #'s?


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## Brakeman Jake

Hi!That's me again.Well,reading back CVs was easy after all.Now a few numbers....
Just to avoid any confusion,I have two identical units (4275 and 4292)both TCS DP2X decoders.
So far,I've changed some CVs on 4275,wich I suspect has ripped a gear but still,the requested numbers are...CV1-003,CV17-208,CV18-179 and CV29-54(wich I've changed and will not know what the original was)

For comparison,4292 has never had a CV changed other than the four digit adress,its original numbers are...CV1-003,CV17-208,CV18-196 and CV29-038.

I think I may have found something...I read the CV67 to CV94 on 4292 and found a weird number.CVs do increase by increments of eight up to CV80 and then increase by increments of ten thereafter.But I find CV80 strange to say the least.May be OK,I can't tell but here it is...CV77-088,CV78-096,CV79-104...CV80-046...CV81-124,CV82-134,CV83-144
Could this be my problem?My feeling is that it should be something like 113-114 to keep the linear properties.These are TCS CVs.

If it is still deemed useful,I can read CV's from one of my diesel Kato's but these are Digitrax board replacements equipped.


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## Brakeman Jake

I have a DCS200 that I purchased used but seems to run fine.It does "beep" once on "power up" and says "stat 128" while selecting locos.And both green and red LED,s do blink.


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## NIMT

Yes CV 80 at 046 will throw a hitch in it's gitty up!

Command station and throttle sound like they are set up right!:thumbsup:

I would pull the decoder out of 4275 and install it in the 4292 and see if you get the same results (after setting CV 80 to 114) as the other engine.


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## Brakeman Jake

Well...the more I try to learn the less I understand.Since reading CVs is quick and easy,I've done some more.First I fixed CV80 by setting it to 114...no noticeable change.This thing is a turtle and gets all its motion below 50% throttle.

So I checked three of my diesels...all three react to throttle changes over 50% but are no good low speed creepers.They practically don't move below 20%.I knew this but not knowing anything about CVs,I operated them as is a few years ago.But still,I read a few CVs to compare with the numbers that I already have so here they are...BTW,all Kato's with Digitrax board decoders.
AC4400 5727 CV1-003,CV17-214,CV18-095 and CV29-054.I also read CVs 67 to 94 on this one and they are absolutely linear.
SD90MAC 0123 CV1-003,CV17-208,CV18-027 and CV29-054
SD90MAC 8038 CV1-003,CV17-223,CV18-102 and CV29-054
All three had 0 as a value for CVs 2,5 and 6.

So,as of now,the only data I'm sure is CV29-054.


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## Brakeman Jake

I'm still trying to understand how a decoder "thinks" and I have two questions that struck my mind.First,I find strange that CVs 2,5 and 6 aren't given linear values (all 0).Wouldn't that make sense if I gave them values like CV2-0,CV5-255 and CV6-128?

And what if I had more voltage to the track like using HO setting instead of N?


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## NIMT

The quick explanation (gotta run to town in a snow storm none the less) is that CV's2,5,6 work in the same way as CV67-94 with less precision.

If you want to use the values of CV2 0,CV5 255 and CV6 128 you will also need to set CV 29 to 38 Not 54 for the decoder to use those values and not the Values of CV67-94.

I'll be back shortly to give a better explanation!


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## Brakeman Jake

I tried changing CVs2,5 and 6...loco wouldn't move at all,reset those CVs to 0,no movement any more.I goofed up somewhere,may be accidentally press the wrong key.I'll reset all CVs to TCS's recommendations and start on a fresh base.But for now I'll take a break and sleep a few hours.My body tells me to.....


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## NIMT

After your Nap and After you do a complete reset...
Do Not Even do the cab # yet, and give me the values of CV #1, 2, 5, 6, and 29, and we'll see if we can get it to run smooth without any real big changes!
Oh and if I don't get back to you right away...I'm just out moving more of this strange white stuff that keeps falling from the sky..But I will soon!


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## Brakeman Jake

NIMT,I can't thank you enough for your efforts in trying to correct my problem and I believe that you will succeed.You'll have made a loco go right and at the same,you will have taught me things I'll remember a long time.

I've done a factory reset on the DP2X decoder and then proceeded to read ALL the CVs and compare the numbers with the manufacturer's (TCS) CV table.You'll find all the CVs you've asked me and also CVs that differed from the TCS table for some strange reason.Three datas for each CV:CV number,actual data read from decoder,TCS table values in ( )only when these differ.Hope it's clear enough for you to consult easily.

CV1-003 CV2-000 CV3-001(000) CV4-001(000) CV5-000
CV6-000 CV8-153 CV29-006 CV67-008(002) CV68-016(005)
CV69-024(007) CV70-032(012) CV71-040(016) CV72-048(021) CV73-032(026)
CV74-064(030) CV75-072(035) CV76-080(040) CV77-088(047) CV78-096(051)
CV79-104(058) CV80-114(065) CV81-124(072) CV82-134(079) CV83-144(084)
CV84-154(093) CV85-164(100) CV86-174(112) CV87-184(121) CV88-194(135)
CV89-204(147) CV90-214(161) CV91-224(177) CV92-234(196) CV93-244(219)
CV94-255

I've posted only the CVs I think may be relevant to the problem but have all the CVs saved should you want others.I find it weird that TCS issues decoders that aren't configured as per their CV table,I can only suppose it applies to a few specific decoders.Thanks again.


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## NIMT

You are welcome Jake, 
First thing I notice with the CV#'s is that yea the the decoder resets to some odd values! It really does not matter because with CV29 set 6...CV67-94 are not turned on.
There is 2 different DP2X's one is Just a DP2X 4 function Decoder and the other is a DP2X Z2 2 function Decoder
Both program in almost the exact same way.
I think that you will want to change some of the CV's.
CV's to change are 
CV 3-000
CV 4-000
CV29-054
CV67-CV94 to the TCS's #'s

Engine #4275= CV17-208,CV18-179 
Engine #4292= CV17-208,CV18-196 

Give that a try...I would say program one decoder and see if it acts the same in both engines if it's easy enough to swap out.
If these #'s don't work I might need all the decoder #'s to see if there is anything else that might be the problem!

Sorry for the slow replys...fighting the snow as quick as I can...I have to keep a 1/4 of my driveway and 1/4 mile of private road open for every one to get in and out...Gets a little time consuming!


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## Brakeman Jake

I've found the problem...insufficient track voltage.After doing a factory reset,I was litterally discouraged as the thing would refuse to move...had forgotten that the reset had returned it to 03,nothing I'd do would do.Then after a while.I woke up...dial in 03 and it starts moving but with still the same problem...reached a pretty low top speed at about 45% throttle and no noticeable reaction behond.

I'm a resilient type of guy (some would say stubborn) so I had to find what was wrong.This engine ran great on DC so I certainly wasn't about to quit.

Short of ideas,I visited TCS's website and read that track voltage was "typically" thirteen volts.Remembering that Digitrax say that track voltage is 12 volts when the command station is set for N scale,I thought it might be my problem.So I tried it...set the loco on the track,crank the throttle until it won't go faster on N scale setup then flick the switch to HO setting.It suddently came alive and throttle settings changes are now noticeable up to nearly 100%.This is when I remembered that the DP2X decoder is designed for both HO and N.

I'm very thankful for NIMT's efforts,as not knowing much about CVs,I probably wouldn't have been so stubborn.But with what I've learned with him has permitted me to think that the problem was elsewhere,wich it was.But this raises another question...it wouldn't make sense to change track voltage for different locos so...can I operate my other N scale locos on HO setup without harming their decoders?


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## NIMT

YEA!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
That also might explain why the decoder is resetting odd!
If you change the decoders to the #'s I gave you you will get a smoother curve out of it!
Yes you can run them on HO with no noticeable problems or ill side effects!
Or I can walk you threw how to turn up the output on your DCS100, it is adjustable!


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## Brakeman Jake

Hi!...my lady needs me for other chores today so I probably won't have spare time before late this afternoon.

Well...what I'll do first...in that order...
Reset the loco's adress from 03 to 4292
Reset CVs 3 and 4 to 0
Reset CV29 from 038 to 054
Leave CVs 67-94 as per decoder's factory reset and try the loco to see how it behaves.If I don't like it,I'll try the numbers you gave me.If again,I don't like it,I'll then try the numbers from TCS's chart.

I'm not usually that picky about a decoders precision,but since I'm really involved in this one,I'll try to have it the best I can.Then,it's going to be 4275's turn wich I suspect has a gear failure.

I've experienced another problem last night during my testing...loco started creeping very very slow as soon as power was on the track with no adress dialed in.Suspecting a DCS200 failure,I replaced it with my older generation DCS100(with speaker type connectors,still brand new) and it stopped.So the DCS200 has a bug...is it a defect?I suspect it has a memory "screw up"?Is there a way to erase memories from a command station?


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## Brakeman Jake

Hi!...I'm about to lose patience on these two locos.Put one on the programming track,enter CVs(supposedly correct),put on the main...it goes.I back it up,leave it there a few minutes...try it again...it refuses to go.I can control the lights but that's it.

If there's one thing I have a hard time with is inconsistent results...you don't change a thing but...things change.I'm even suspecting my DT400...no way to test it though.

Tried setting CVs 17 and 18 to 0 as per TCS's chart,nothing goes,CV29 back to 6 same result.Both are dead now.It's like there's no real standard setting that would work,even TCS's.Guess I'll take a couple days off before I throw them at the wall.........but I'll be back after I cooled down.......


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## NIMT

Well if they frustrate you too much throw them in a padded envelope and send them down and I'll check them out!


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## Brakeman Jake

OK...stubborn ole me...couldn't resist trying something else before bed...well I found two problems.A few details I'm sure of now....
1)Doing a full factory reset,without changing a single CV,brought the two engines back to life.
2)The higher voltage (HO setting) is still true,they go to 100% throttle,though not as linear as I'd like them to be.
3)Factory reset CV29 is 6,changing it to 54 kills them real dead.Don't ask me why.
4)These decoders don't like programming on the main.They did accept the new adresses,but I've found that some CVs hadn't reset correctly.Again,no idea why.

Presently,they both run and I won't change a thing without your opinion.CV29 is the key I know,but don't know wich data will activate CVs 67 to 94.I'll read whatever CV you ask me to and report them to you,but by myself....haven't learned enough yet..............


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## NIMT

CV 29 programed to 54 activates CV's 67-94.
The only time I've run into issues like your having is when there is something not quite right with the wiring on the loco...Like there is a light that is actually wired up wrong or a shorted bulb. I have seen just about everything over the years. 
The problems with the reset sound like the engine is messing with them.
Do you have another loco that takes that decoder or would except that 8 pin decoder in place of one that already in it? 
That would be a great way to find out if it's the engine or the decoder!


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## NIMT

Well after an extensive search on the web I don't find anyone else having problems with the engine or the decoders.
Did you get your engines new or used?
Your engines haven't been altered with any extra lights like an added firebox light, cab light, number board light or extra headlight?
I cant think of a specific reason why you would be having the issues that you are having.
OK just to make sure...And please don't be offended but lets make sure of some things.
Powering your DCS 100 is what power supply?
Have you checked the voltage coming out of it?
and the voltage out of it while powering the DCS 100?
Are the wires feeding the program track of a good size? 
Program track is completely isolated from the main?
Wiring coming off of the DCS 100 to the program track only goes goes from Prog A to one rail and from Prog B to the other rail, The main reason I ask is that I hooked mine up once to the Prog A and to ground..Drove me nuts till I found it, simple mistake because the ground is in the center of the two.
Try unplugging any loco net cables and plug your throttle directly into the DCS 100 if it is not already.
When programing are leaving the DCS 100 in run and powered?


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## Brakeman Jake

Well,recalling everything I did,I tend to believe that no hardware is the cause now.It was at first,when track voltage was insufficient,but since this was found I have a strong impression that I was the problem.I should have done a factory reset on both locos right away,wich I didn't.Instead,I tried fixing by tweaking CVs one or two at a time,making a mess even messier.

Now that the voltage problem is found and the decoders reset,the locos are both running fairly well.Not great,but at least they run.Thinking backwards....
-My layout isn't operational yet(except one single main loop)so I didn't have a dedicated programming track and always entered the adress on the main in OPS mode.Since track voltage wasn't right,it probably accounts for the weird numbers that came up.
-If I had thought that the DP2X decoders are HO decoders right from the start,I probably wouldn't have even tried modifying CVs.
-I should have touched only one of the locos to keep the other as a reference.
-After the resolution of the voltage problem,I should have done a reset right away

Since the layout isn't built yet,all my hardware is still new,with except the DT400 that I've used a few times at the club.It's an older "Chief" system that I bought from a gentleman who never built a layout.The DCS100 is one with the speaker type connectors.I've upgraded afterwards with a used DCS200(from Ebay) and a brand new DT400R.I've had doubts about the DCS200 so I switched to the DCS100...nothing changed.The power supply is a heavy transfo that puts out 16VAC that came with the Chief when I bought it.
Both locos and decoders are all brand new too.

Now I'm back to the starting line,both locos reset at adresses 03 and the voltage is OK.I'll read CVs 1,2,3,4,5,6,29 and 67 to 94(from both locos) and report them to you later today.Other CV's you'd like to know about?I'm not changing a single one until.........


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## NIMT

Jake, Sounds great!
Next investment would be a PR3!:thumbsup:
It make programing and trouble shooting a snap!
You can also use it to run your trains if you want!


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## Brakeman Jake

I have a PR3,bought three years ago.Connecting it was a breeze but using it was another world.I'm not much of a computer master.I then downloaded a software but never found how to set it up right.Didn't fight my way through though,I was working then and had many other things in my mind.It is stored...somewhere.........Today...well...may be tomorrow,I don't have much time today.

Tuning decoders with it...sure...running trains with it...no way.Not interested in automation,I'm a "hands on" guy and don't see the interest,layout won't be this big.


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## Brakeman Jake

By the way,I gave the info about my findings on another forum I go to and got a reply from a DCC guru...he says that having an HO decoder in an N scale loco shouldn't be an issue.But then,why would Digitrax have different voltage settings on their DCS100?


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## NIMT

I've never have really figured that out myself either. The best answer that I've ever gotten was that the original specs on motors For N scale was that they were originally designed for anywhere from 10 to 12 volts DC and HO was 12 to 14 Volts DC. I think some where along the line they all started using 12 Volts DC as the happy medium.
NMRA made the original voltage rules way back when!


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## Brakeman Jake

When I asked on the other forum about the Digitrax voltage setting (HO vs N),I've been answered that most DCC systems don't have this option,that in fact DCC systems had a set voltage that can be adjusted somewhat internally but still was meant for both scales.

Then,the two modelers who replied,whom I believe to be highly knowledgeable on DCC,are suggesting that BEMF is probably my problem.I don't fully understand the purpose of BEMF and how it works,but they suggest that turning it off (set CV61 at 0) could help.Since I've burned myself a couple times tweaking CVs,I'm cautious about modifying a single one.What do you think?

The TCS's website says that turning BEMF off automatically activates Dither...another chineese word to me.What's dither and what does it do?


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## Rangerover

Not meaning to interrupt you guys and NMIT knows what he's talking about, turn off the BEMF, then try it. BEMF acts as a governor or overdrive such as in an automobile when in overdrive as an example. It brakes when going down a grade so as not to pick up speed, and it gives it gas so to speak when going up a grade, so as not to slow down. 

But it can give you problems when trying to tweek your cv's in your decoder! 

Digitrax uses three CVs in BEMF, (55, 56, & 57). To explain how each of these work, you have to understand that the "target" speed is the speed with which the loco is supposed to be going according to the throttle setting you have given it. CV#55 is used to tell the decoder how fast to compensate for speed differences. CV#56 uses historical information to act as a shock absorber - to keep from over reacting. CV#57 tells how much tolerance from the target speed is allowed. 

And when consisiting, which you haven't addressed, but here's that info too! CV#57 is divided in half. The first hex digit is for how much Back-EMF when not consisted, the second digit is for how much when consisted via Decoder-Assisted Consisting. 

And if I'm not helping, but rather confusing you even more, I won't interefer with the expert help your getting from NMIT. Hope I helped some though, Jim


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## Rangerover

The second question of what is Dither, it is PWM, Pulse Width Modulation and what that means (does) is, it allows you to operate your loco at a crawl, such as we all enjoy with DCC, to get the loco barely moving when we call up a loco and start it moving, in other words "momentum" is another word and came with my analog MRC Tech 4's I bought years ago. The torque of the motor is cut using it so as not to have that jack rabbit sort of start and gradually throttles down even if you quickly throttle down to zero it "slows" instead of instantly stopping or like hitting the "all stop button" and slamming on the brakes. Explained the best I could, enjoy, Jim


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## Brakeman Jake

I'm absolutely sure that NIMT knows his thing,as opposed to me who's learning but still ignorant(with DCC I mean).But I'm also aware that there are other knowledgeable people on this forum and others,so I take their comments (or recommendations) into account pretty seriously,trying to weigh the pros and cons of each so that I don't only do what I'm suggested to do but also understand why I'm doing it.

I can't be thankful enough to NIMT for his help as he's helped me eliminate possible glitches,thus reducing the number of remaining possible problems.I've found a solution(raising the track voltage),by myself,but now others say that it may not be the right solution,sort of a bandaid on a broken leg.Sure,I'll give it a try and if turning BEMF off works or not,I'll go to bed tonight a bit smarter.I'll report the result....

My layout will be of small to moderate size and these are big engines,so I'm not worried about consisting them.They'll be pulling a dozen cars at most,more than that would look weird.


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## NIMT

BEMF can be a problem in some engines, I too would suggest you try turning it off and see if that helps.
I would try and explain BEMF (Back Electo Motive Force) and Dithering to you but honestly I think I would just confuse the holy heck out of you...Because I do it to myself!


TCS explains Dither Here
TCS explains BEMF Here 
The very last part of the BEMF page will tell you how to adjust the Dither and how to tweak it to make it work for you.

Let me know what you discover.


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## NIMT

Jake the main reason that I was suggesting the PR3 earlier is that you could send me the Roster file of the Loco And that will give me all the CV's and I can in turn copy, edit and tweak the #'s to help you out.
Trust me when I say once you start programing with the PR3 you will never look back! It literally will give you a visual of what your working on.


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## Brakeman Jake

Well...BEMF was the problem indeed.Turning it off did allow throttle settings to be active up to 100%,wich I initially wanted but...it came at a price...loco wouldn't creep very slowly as it did before.So came the Dither settings.I read the original settings wich were CV56-03 and CV57-10.With these numbers,the loco wouldn't start moving below 18% throttle.

I've played with these two settings for a while and finally got it.Tried a few numbers for CV56 to bring it back to 03.Raising CV57 in 5 increments to 45 did it.It creeps nicely though a little short of perfection,but since the loco isn't "broken-in" yet,I feel I may be waisting my efforts trying to get better.But I have a real good idea what to do.BTW,track voltage is back at N scale setting.

As I said,it is short of perfection at both low and high speed,but quite nice still.Since the layout isn't functional yet,it'll stay as is for a while.I'll search my storage boxes to find my PR3 and it's wires...that may be another problem....Thanks,gentlemen.


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## NIMT

Exellent job there sir! I've never had to shut down the BEMF to get an engine to work so it's not top of my look at list.
Glad you got some great and informational advice. That's what makes this hobby so great!:thumbsup:


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## Brakeman Jake

Found PR3...found USB cable...have a test track...so far so good.Then,Digitrax say I need the Soundloader install CD...don't have it...and don't remember ever having it either.Can I substitute a download?If yes wich?If possible ready to install?Never succeeded unzipping a file......Pentium 4,Windows XP...I know,a dinosaur.....


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## NIMT

Yea the original disk is a mini CD, easy to loose!
I don't use sound loader very often...But the file is on there web site Here it's on the bottom right under Free sound tool's.
I use JMRI for programing and tweaking decoders you can down load it from Here.


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## Rangerover

I was goiong to recommend decoder pro, but I see you already have it. I do believe there is a download page on the Digitrax site to download the drivers you need. I lost my disc, it's only a little thing, but sent for one at Digitrax for $5.00 including shipping. Jim

Try this scroll about 1/2 way down:
http://www.digitrax.com/prd_compint_pr3.php


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## Brakeman Jake

I have installed Decoder Pro and Soundloader but can't get neither to work,always getting the "can't communicate" answer.I haven't found the USB cable that came with the PR3 but have one that physically fits at both ends...computer detects the PR3 as "new hardware".Are these cables standard or can it be "coded" differently depending on maker.Can't tell if I have a hardware or software problem.........


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## NIMT

The USB Cables are all the same clocking or coding. Are you getting lights to flash on the PR3 when it's plugged in? Could be that it's not looking at the right COM port.


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## NIMT

Here are the device driver files that I think you need.
I had to zip it to send it. If that doesn't work for you I can email you the unzipped files.
You might have to have to reset the PR3 by pushing both of the back buttons till you get the third LED to flash then the first 2 light go to slow flashing green and constant red.
I could also email you the help and manual files if you want them too.


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## Brakeman Jake

So it seems hardware is OK...
-Power supply plugged-steady red,green slowly blinks,mostly off
-USB plugged-steady red,green blink slowly blinks too,mostly on
-Then replug power supply,same results
The USB port has been used for other purpose (digital camera) in the past,worked fine.

My son came yesterday and we installed Decoder Pro and Soundloader,and he unzipped the driver file...should work but doesn't...Seems hardware and software don't link together.I'm totally lost...I'm a mechanic,not a programmer.


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## Brakeman Jake

Slowly but sure they say....winning battles one at a time.I finally succeeded in having Decoder Pro to work...didn't know I had to tell it wich "com port",found by tinkering with a little swearing along the way.

Now it can identify decoders,a major breakthrough for me,may sound stupid to others though but don't really care.Have another learning curve ahead though...learning to use it now.It seems to read CV but doesn't show them on screen,next step.May be someday I'll be able to print them...........


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## Rangerover

Brakeman, enter the loco in your roster. Down in the bottom right there's a button that says PROGRAM in gray. Hit that button, on the bar on top is where all your programs are including cv's. If you change any cv's make sure you hit the "write changes to sheet", the red light should stay red until it's done and the changes should be red and turning to white. I don't think you can print these, but any changes you make will be kept in the roster file.

Now while it's on the program track, close program and go to throttle. This is a stationary throttle, but you can check your lights, both front and rear, or other functions without the motor running. If you have sound you can hear the motor sounds increase while you increase the throttle, however the loco won't move. 

If by some chance the throttle won't power up and stays gray. Let us know, there is a fix for that but I'm not going there unless you have a problem!
Jim


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## Brakeman Jake

After I've closed the "New loco" and the "programmer" screens(after entering loco to roster,the program icon stays white and clicking it does nothing.It also seems that although it can read CVs,it doesn't read the active adress so that I can add it in the roster infos.If the adress has to be entered manually,I haven't found how yet.

It wouldn't make sense to expect a complete course through this forum so I expect I'll have to find most by myself,wich I'm pretty much involved in.There's going to be a lot of trial and error in the process and I certainly appreciate any info that allows me to go forward.I suppose that the first steps are the toughest though.Thanks a lot.


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## NIMT

Great!!!:thumbsup:
I've been working with Decoder pro today trying to figure out how to get you set up...I don't run the normal version I run the beta's and they are a little different.
Working on helping you out with the rest of it as I type, be back soon.
OK I'm back
first starting decoder pro you get this page start with picking service mode programmer







next page use the, Read type from decoder. 







next change the programmer format to Comprehensive and then hit open programmer







first page is the roster, page fill it out and on the bottom of the page hit save to roster.







Click on the top tab and go to basic this is where you change decoder address, next we go to basic speed control 







you can use either basic or speed table, I always use the speed tables because it's easier to speed match 2 loco's for a consist! 







Speed table







Next you can go onto function control, your decoder only has control over the F0(F) forward light and F0(R)rear light which is controlled by F0. 







This is an example of another decoders function screen, a lot more control over the functions. 







Am I helping or hurting?


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## Brakeman Jake

OK....you've been very helpful indeed.However,I feel that you're a few steps ahead of me.What I'm trying to do is learn as I go so that the infos get written properly in my master file (brain) so that I don't have to ask again for help.

What I'm actually trying to do is be able to read all the CVs from a decoder so that I can send you the datas you asked for a few days ago.You said it's much simpler with DP than reading them with my Digitrax set,but that is only after I've learned how to do it.So I'll have to find how to read those CVs first then find the way to send them to you.I've found a way to read each CV individually,but is there a way to list them?I may be wrong here,but my mechanic's logic tells me that I need a good diagnosis of the problem before I even think of correcting it.

Right now,I have one of my diesels on the prog track that doesn't need being re-written so re-writing CVs isn't my concern yet.Reading them is and I'm having a glitch right from the start...DP doesn't seem to read the adress so that it gets written on the roster page with the other loco's datas.Adress doesn't show after decoder reading and can't be entered manually on the programmer page either.So there's a trick along the line that I haven't yet figured out.But I'm patient...I will...sometime.


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## NIMT

Your doing great!
Once you get to the roster page of decoder pro, Click on the bottom where it says Read all sheets and it will read all the CV's of the engine and then you can save it to the roster, that will save all the initial CV settings for us to look at.
Then go back to the first page of decoder pro and go to the top that says roster and export the roster and that is the file you send me.


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## Xnats

NIMT said:


> Your doing great!
> Once you get to the roster page of decoder pro, Click on the bottom where it says Read all sheets and it will read all the CV's of the engine and then you can save it to the roster, that will save all the initial CV settings for us to look at.
> Then go back to the first page of decoder pro and go to the top that says roster and export the roster and that is the file you send me.


Then save that data on a thumb drive - I lost all mine saved data on a hard drive crash hwell:


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## NIMT

My roster file had over 3000 entries when that file went poof ...That was a drinking day!!! No they were not all mine I just saved everyones engine and DCC'ed equipment specs when I installed and programmed them. 
You can also save the file to a rewritable CD and just up date it!
The newer decoders don't seam to have this problem as much anymore but the older decoders would just erase themselves over time and you would have to go back and re-program them, what a pain!


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## Brakeman Jake

Well...another battle won...I can have DP read the CVs,but it keeps them to itself.I've yet to find how to actually see the results.The adress issue is resolved,it shows on the roster sheet.

I've been delayed in my experiments as my hardware played a trick on me,suddently got the "no programmer connected"message.I tinkered with connections without success then it decided to work again.A mystery to me...

Is there a worksheet,internet page or else that explains what all the Decoder Pro icons mean?Some of them are pretty confusing to a guy like me like read all sheets,read full sheet,write to full sheet,write to all sheets,etc.Some pairs mean almost the same to me but I know there are obviously differences.There are eight of these on the bottom of the programmer page and many others thtoughout Decoder Pro.But still going forward.........


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## NIMT

Does this help you out?
If you select the tab CV's on the top of the page you will see all the CV's of the decoder. Technically all the sheets are CV's they are just in terms that people can read and understand!


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## Brakeman Jake

OK...what I can do now....
1-Create a new loco
2-Read or select decoder type
Then with programmer page...
3-with "basic" icon,enter active DCC adress
4-with "read all sheets",store all CV datas
5-with "CV" icon,I can actually read them all,wich was my first goal.
6-then fill the loco's datas(name,road,etc)
7-then with "store to roster",do just that.So far so good.

BUT...I'm caught in a jam...stupid computer played a trick on me...I used the small square in the corner of the screen to have the "create a new loco" panel full screen but I can't find the way to bring it back to its original size.It opens full screen all the time,even after program shut off.It completely hides my roster list and I can't have it unless I create a new loco.If I click the "reduce" icon,it erases the screen instead of simply returning to original size.A computer or software kink?Another way to access my roster?

I'm aware I still have a lot to learn and events like this do make it tougher.I make it a point to try hard by myself as what's learned this way tend to be remembered longer,but this is really getting me !?!?!?!?.


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## Rangerover

Hey Jake in your spare time go here, if you don't know about this site it's Dave Duchamp one of the developers of JMRI explaining step by step how to use the program, Sean is doing a great job walking you through this, but it's a good reference. Jim

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/mrht_decoderpro


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## Brakeman Jake

I've only watched the two first videos and indeed,there's a wealth of infos on this site.Thank you very very much for the tip,I'll make good use of it.

I've noted a few differences between his version of DP and the version I have(the latest) but still,the vocabulary used is the same so that I should be able to at least read and reprogram loco CVs.His hardware is much different though but it doesn't matter to me as I will never use DP to run locos...read ans write CVs is what I want so no need to link to Loconet and/or a command station.The computer isn't close to the layout anyway.Thanks again for the link.


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## Brakeman Jake

Well,I've watched all four Decoder Pro videos...great infos there indeed...thanks again for the link.I've been tinkering with the software for a few days (entering my roster mostly) so haven't worked on my locos at all.
One of my Cabforwards is going fine after a reset (with BEMF turned off,only little tinkering may improve it) but the other one ran nicely until it suddently went dead the other day so I've put it aside.I'll try a reset today and if this failing,I'll remove the tender shell to see if decoder has fried.It may not show though,so if this failing,I'll try the other loco's decoder.That's where I'm at right now,I'll report on the results later.Thanks again guys for the help.


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## Brakeman Jake

Well...I have a mystery on my hands...a loco that went dead a few days ago that still wouldn't go was put on the programming track(for a reset) to no avail...still refused to respond.Track power off then on...nothing...then off and on...it came back to life...total mystery.Since its sister loco(same engine and decoder) has done the same thing last week,I suspect a decoder design glitch...locos stop and won't restart until they feel like it I guess.

Now...Decoder Pro...a great software indeed.I'm not interested in "running" trains through it though,only the programming capabilities that I'm interested in,for now anyway.But I have another question...I can read CVs while loco is on the programming track,but how does one read the CVs from the stored roster,without the loco sitting on the track?And I believe this is the only way that someone can either print or send CV infos.This I haven't found yet.


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