# Lionel 1033 Transformer Whistle question



## joec78 (Dec 14, 2012)

Hi, I'm new to the site and, using Christmas as an excuse, just started to get back into my old trains. It's a great hobby.

After 50 years I pulled out my 736 locomotive and tender, (a friend oiled it up) and bought a 1033 transformer (which is what I had) on Ebay. The 736 runs great, smoke and all. The problem (?) is the whistle only works when the train is running not when the train is idle. I looked with an Oscilloscope and there is no output from the transformer at idle when the whistle lever is engaged. Other functions such as reverse work fine. I did a search on the web but couldn't nail down that part of the operation.

Could someone please tell me if this is correct, and if not possible problem/solution? Should the whistle work always? 

Thank you in advance.

Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The whistle switch on older PW transformers, such as the 1033, requires some current flowing to generate the voltage drop necessary for the whistle switch to work. 

One issue with those is the contacts are dirty/misadjusted, and the first stage doesn't connect properly to activate the whistle switch. 

Try opening up the transformer (unplug it first) by taking the four screws from the top after removing the handles. Spray contact cleaner on the whistle switch contacts while moving the whistle lever back and forth. Also, inspect the contacts to make sure they're making good contact.

I've attached a service manual for the 1033 to this post, that should assist in the effort.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

joec78 said:


> The problem (?) is the whistle only works when the train is running not when the train is idle.


I want to make sure i understand your comment ...

If you have the whistle tender (only!) on the track, apply throttle power, and then hit the whistle button on the tranny, the whistle should operate. However, if you have no throttle, but hit the whistle button, the whistle relay will engage (via a DC pulse sent out to the track), but their will NOT be AC power to actually operate the AC whistle motor.

So ... I think what you're seeing (assuming my understanding of your situation is OK) is normal operation.

John ... you agree, right? He needs throttle (AC power) for the whistle motor (not the relay, but the motor itself) to run.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was assuming he was in neutral on his three-speed E-Unit, but if he has no track power, you're comment is certainly correct, no whistle! You should be able to sit with track power in neutral and run the whistle.


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## joec78 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thank you both for the replies.

tjcruiser, you have it right. I have no whistle when the train is at standstill. It does, however, sound when the train is moving. So apparently, the operation is correct. It's been 50 years since these ran, and the memory is a little short.

gunrunnerjohn, thanks for the manual. I had the e-unit switch in the "auto-reverse" (if that's what it's called) position and had simply put the throttle at the stop position when I tried the whistle. If I read you correctly, and apologies from this old newbie if I don't, I could put the switch at the center position and then run the whistle at stop with full throttle.

Looking at the schematic, it appears to put DC (actually half-wave rectified) on the "U." If I read the schematic right, is this riding on 5VAC from the center winding? I didn't see that on the scope yesterday at work.

Thanks again
Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You have figured it out. 

The reason you don't see much DC when you put a scope on it is you need to have a load on the transformer for the DC to be seen. The extra 5V winding is the "boost" that is provided to account for the whistle motor current draw so the trains won't slow down when you blow the whistle.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

In the layman terms.
when turn on a light the current draws. 
If you turn on a transformer you need something else to draw the current. Like an engine on the track running.


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## joec78 (Dec 14, 2012)

Great, thanks to all for the help!! 

Happy Holidays!!


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## ELDJR (Jan 29, 2013)

*THANKS gunrunnerjohn for posting the 1033 Service Pages!*

I have a 1033 transformer that I just replaced the old whistle disc and associated parts with a 6 amp diode. It's a relatively easy change out and the difference is well worth any effort. Now, my Lionel postwar tenders whistles are quick to respond and much louder than with the old disc. The 1033 Service Manual link you posted made my job easy !

THANKS AGAIN,
Elliott


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

*prewar lionel whistle works only when stationary*

I have a lionel 1668 pulling a 1689W tender. I modified the 1668 with a modern lionel smoke generator which works quite nicely. Unfortunately, I can only get the whistle to work when the train is in neutral or the tender is on the track alone. I have used a 1033 transformer that has been updated with a diode to replace the rectifier disc and it is not strong enough to even pull in the relay contact when the tender is on the track alone. When I use my ZW transformer, the relay pulls in just fine, however I have the same problem that the whistle won't work when the train is moving. Lastly, I've tried a modern CW80 transformer and the relay pulls in fine when stationary, but does not work when moving. I've checked the ground on the tender and it is fine. The only thing I can think of is that the engine is drawing too much current or something. Any ideas?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, the problem is not the power, but rather the power draw. When there is little power draw across the whistle control circuit in the 1033, you get a very small DC offset, not enough to kick the horn relay.


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks, so that addresses the 1033, but what about the zw and cw80 not firing off the whistle when the train is moving? The latter two will make the whistle operate when stationary.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I can't really explain why none of them work moving without more info. Is this just one locomotive or several of them with the same issue. It could be as basic as a whistle relay issue in the tender. The fact that you've tried three transformers seems to suggest an issue with the whistle and/or relay, and not the transformers.


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks. I'm going to try running the tender with a modern locomotive and s postwar to see any difference. 


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I think your whistle motor needs lube. It sounds like the voltage is too low when the engine is running to run the whistle motor. If you haven't lubed it, I suggest you lube it with motor oil.


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks. I did that earlier along with cleaning the armature faces. The motor spins freely. 


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Did you lube both armature bearings?


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes. Thanks. 


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Agree with extra lubrication, my old tenders needed a lot to get into the hard to reach spots. I'm with grj on this.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok read back a few posts, have you tried a different whistle tender on the same setup? That way you can narrow it down to the unit or track/ transformer. If you have a loose connection in the tender it could be vibrating so that the whistle does not get power. More info is prudent.


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## Hoot24 (Sep 5, 2012)

It seems that I had the same issue when I bought a 1033 years ago. I replaced the rectifier disc and it has worked perfectly ever since.


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

Ok. I tried a marx 333 smoker with the tender and the tender whistles when moving when I use the zw. When I switch back to the 1668 loco the impeller doesn't even move when I try the whistle. I relubed everything again and checked all solder connections. Something in the 1668 loco must be affecting the dc voltage that is supposed to go to the relay. The only thing I added to the 1668 was the modern lionel smoke unit, which works great btw. But that looks to be a simple heating element and piston similar to what's in the marx 333. 


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

I also notice that when the 1668 is operating in neutral with the whistle tender, when I trigger the whistle from the zw and the cw80 transformers there is a definite buzzing sound coming from the relay in the e unit in the loco. It almost seems like the dc voltage being applied is affecting the loco relay more than the tender's. 


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

I replaced the rectifier disc in the 1033 with a diode but it didn't help. Gave up on the 1033. Just using the zw. It's more reliable for me to test. 


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I've been thinking this over but don't have any great ideas. Do you have a second whistle tender to run with the engine to see if that works?


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

I have another prewar tender that i know works fine with a 224e loco. I'll dig it out tonight and try it out with the 1668e. 


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Its a 1668 e? I don't know if it matters. I have a 1668 it had a sticky e unit until I fixed it, that probably has nothing to do with this problem. Are the wires original to the engine? Oh, and please tell how you put in the smoke generator ( I've never done it)! It doesn't make any sense, unless something is shorting out in the engine somehow. I'm hoping that someone with more electrical knowledge will chime in now!


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## mongo (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes. A 1668 2-6-2. The e unit works fine. I cleaned it. The smoke unit is a self contained plastic unit that has a reservoir and a plunger to push air over. The plunger is pushed by a linkage I connected to the drive rod on one side. It's hidden under the engine shell. All I had to do was cut the metal bracket that the front pilot wheels connect to to make room for the bottom of the smoke unit. The stack of the smoke unit sits almost flush with the chrome ring of the hole in the top of the shell. I had to also remove the headlight to make room and use a smaller one instead. It smokes like crazy. 


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