# beginner advice



## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

hiya all

I am a complete newbie to Model railroad and am looking for some advice

As i am located in Holland i was thinking of using AC from Marklin as it is easily available but i have decided against this cos then I would be almost bound to buying trains from Marklin and dont like the middle skid on the trains 

I do want DCC so am now looking at Roco or Fleischmann are these a good idea for starting off ??

Also i am fairly limited on budget and am worried that just a simple oval and maybe one siding would bore me quickly , is this so ??

Do all turnouts need to be wired to the track for the switching or all the ones in the starterkits done for you ??

Also if you guys have any more tips/ Advice please comment on this 

Cheers Phil


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello Phil and welcome. You are correct, a simple oval will get boring very quickly. You need a raison d'être for your rail empire so try to create something with industry served by rail. You could even reject the tail chaser principle and go for an end to end arrangement. A lot depends on how much space you have available, a minimum for an interesting oval is 8x 4 imho. An end to end can run along one wall of a room and be only a few inches wide. Have a look on the net and research some plans.
You are right to go with DCC, it offers much more operational enjoyment and the possibility of sound. I assume you are thinking of HO. American or European prototype? Sorry, just saw your preference for Roco or Fleischmann, although I have a U.S. Diesel by Roco.
Don't worry too much about turnout wiring unless you intend to use a track intensive arrangement. If using a 'insulated frog' turnouts wiring is greatly simplified, power is sent in the direction set by the point blades. Power is fed from the 'heel' of the point. I use Peco track and turnout and they're very reliable. 
You will need a DCC system. I can recommend the NCE PowerCab which is easy to use and comes at a bargain price, although you may want to consider some European alternatives.
I'm sure others on here will make their recommendations and suggestions so you can pick out the stuff that appeals. Good luck.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello Phil and welcome. You are correct, a simple oval will get boring very quickly. You need a raison d'être for your rail empire so try to create something with industry served by rail. You could even reject the tail chaser principle and go for an end to end arrangement. A lot depends on how much space you have available, a minimum for an interesting oval is 8x 4 imho. An end to end can run along one wall of a room and be only a few inches wide. Have a look on the net and research some plans.
You are right to go with DCC, it offers much more operational enjoyment and the possibility of sound. I assume you are thinking of HO. American or European prototype? Sorry, just saw your preference for Roco or Fleischmann, although I have a U.S. Diesel by Roco.
Don't worry too much about turnout wiring unless you intend to use a track intensive arrangement. If using a 'insulated frog' turnouts wiring is greatly simplified, power is sent in the direction set by the point blades. Power is fed from the 'heel' of the point. I use Peco track and turnout and they're very reliable. 
You will need a DCC system. I can recommend the NCE PowerCab which is easy to use and comes at a bargain price, although you may want to consider some European alternatives.
I'm sure others on here will make their recommendations and suggestions so you can pick out the stuff that appeals. Good luck.


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

thanks for the reply 

I have decided on the Roco 51256 set , this is a good sized track and a train that i like the era of ,I will stretch my budget a bit and buy some more turnouts and track to add a siding to make it more fun 

I will be going 80's/90's era as this was the trains me and my grandad used to go and watch on the North coast line in Yorkshire

I am not sure wether to be using Pre balasted track to start with , its easier but it doesn't look realistic

as for size i am ok cos i will be taking over my garage with the layout and demoting my car to the drive/car port ;-)


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Looks like a good starter set although I don't think there were many ICE units operating in the North Yorkshire in the 80s/90s! Although there's nothing stopping you from adding some UK diesels from that era to ring the changes, just remember they'll be to a slightly different scale(OO).
The multimaus is a good controller by all accounts. Try adding some turnouts inside the oval to add more operational interest, possibly a station or industry and one outside.
You are right about the track but for starters it is fine and will at least give you electrical integrity. Mount the track on a permanent table if you can


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> Looks like a good starter set although I don't think there were many ICE units operating in the North Yorkshire in the 80s/90s! Although there's nothing stopping you from adding some UK diesels from that era to ring the changes, just remember they'll be to a slightly different scale(OO).
> The multimaus is a good controller by all accounts. Try adding some turnouts inside the oval to add more operational interest, possibly a station or industry and one outside.
> You are right about the track but for starters it is fine and will at least give you electrical integrity. Mount the track on a permanent table if you can


yeah your right , but thats the era i am looking at , not steam loco's allthough i do like some of them 

I am researching like mad now on Youtube on how to attach tracks to a board wether i glue it or nail it down , and how to plan bigger layouts


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Don't take anything you see on YouTube as gospel. There are too many instant experts on there! Find out how Roco recommend you fix their track. You could fix it with a bit of PVA wood glue as it's quite easy to break the bond and you are bound to change your track arrangement several times.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Greetings and welcome to the forum!

I'm on the other side of the Pond, but have a great love for the Netherlands because as a teenager, I spent two wonderful summers living with a family in Son, just outside Eindhoven.

What I know about model train stuff in Europe can easily be printed on the back of my hand in large letters, so I'll leave that to others. I do know a fair bit about layouts in general, though. First of all, you are dead on when you suspect that a simple oval will not keep you satisfied for long -- I get a lot of amusement watching one of our members, who insisted that he just wanted to watch trains go around, tinkering with and adding to his track plan less than 9 months after starting. A simple oval is a good way to learn and experiment, and gain experience which will be of great benefit when you decide to expand. Make a small layout now, with the idea that you'll upgrade it to something more to your liking in a few years. I would say, though, that you should include a passing section and 2-3 sidings in your first track plan.

Beyond that, remember that this is YOUR layout, and neither Cycleops, me, or anyone else can tell you what to do with it. Some insist on strict adherence to a prototype, others have a complete melange of eras, locations, and railroads. Going one way or the other does not somehow make you a better model railroader. Do what makes you happy. If you want to run an ICE in North Yorkshire in the '80s, by all means do so.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Even if you build a good size table, there's no reason to avoid
a simple oval to start for budget reasons. But, as they have
said, it gets old pretty quick. Soon you would want yards and
spurs for industries so you can switch cars around the layout.
As you can, you can continue to expand and possibly change your
whole track plan when experience guides your vision.

By all means: DCC. It has changed model railroads in so
many good ways, not the least is that it has simplified
wiring and made train operations the easiest yet.

Over here we know Tyco, Athern, Walthers, Bachmann and other
brands, the Euro brands are less known. There are several
members across the Atlantic like cycleops and cosmos (see
other threads) who can help you with the
Euro makes and models available.

I would avoid the track mounted on a roadbed base. It is
expensive and difficult to match to tracks and turnouts
of other makes. Peco is one of the best track and turnout
brands and is Britain based so should be widely available
to Euro modellers. Flex track, not sectional, will afford you
the easiest match to your track plans.

Over here most modellers will use a 1/3" to 2" think
pink or blue insulation foam over the wood top. This
affords some quieting and also ability to dig ditches and
the like.

The way track is attached to the table varies between
modellers. Possibly most will use a Cork or Foam roadbed for
the track, especially on main lines. Usually, yards and
spurs are of 'lower' quality so they have different ballasting.

Most modellers today use glue vary sparingly to attach the
roadbed to the table, then again, sparingly, glue the track to
the roadbed. A flat knife like a putty knife will loosen the
work if you want to change it. Using nails is tedius and
unless you have special tools is likely to damage rails
and/or ties. On curves, use stick pins to hold the track in
place until the glue sets.

With a garage to provide space you can have a nicely large
layout. But you should consider climate conditions. Moisture
is an enemy of model gear.

Don


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

Here is an idea. Yes I know its N scale but wouldn't be hard to convert to HO. Nice flowing latout. http://farbeyondrails.net/std-layouts-n-scale.php


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Is this the train set you have or planning to buy?

http://www.reynaulds.com/products/Roco/51256.aspx

As shown it appears to be straight DC operating, not DCC.

Don


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

Yeah this is te set i am looking at 

It is DCC , i asked the guy in the shop and he showed me the box

Although i am looking at Trix bow cos i like the controller more ;-)


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That's why it is better to use a brick and mortar shop. You see
and can ask questions before you buy.

Don


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

Does anyone advise a good website for how too start with your layout ?? 

I have been watching Youtube a lot but still there is a lot for me to learn &#55357;&#56883;&#55357;&#56883;


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Uh, er, duh. How about looking around right here on
the Model Railroad Forum. That's what we do.

What do you need to start YOUR layout?

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Yeah, I'll agree with Don. It doesn't get much better than this one right here.

There is a beginner Q&A (question and answer) thread here which is probably a very good read for you. Just be advised that the first couple of posts make it sound like you have to do things a certain way, which is not true. There are several approaches to every task; none is inherently better than any other. Plus, with a couple of exceptions, there is no fixed order in which you must do things.

If you have specific questions, ask and we'll do our best to answer.


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

well its been a while but i have been making slow and steady progress 

Got a 122 x 244 cm board set up on a frame and legs , then added 2cm thick insulation foam 

I have screwed the board to the wall which i think is a mistake cos i cannot reach the back of the board


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Before you go any further with the layout I would suggest that
you change the legs to an 'L' composed of 2-1" X 3" or 4" 
(sorry I don't do metric) boards screwed together. You bolt the
L in each corner and as needed between. They will
provide much better stability. You will be putting various
pressures on the table and those 2" X 2" legs will not keep
the table steady. Use adjustable leveling devices on the
bottom of the legs.

Yes, you will want to unbolt the table from the wall. There will
be times you'll need access on the back side.

Don


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

DonR said:


> Before you go any further with the layout I would suggest that
> you change the legs to an 'L' composed of 2-1" X 3" or 4"
> (sorry I don't do metric) boards screwed together. You bolt the
> L in each corner and as needed between. They will
> ...



yeah i agree with the strengthening of the legs they are very unstable , i will be adding some support tomorrow , the board in Imperial is 8x4 foot .

there is some adjustable feet under the legs already


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I'd move the inner turnout nearer the other one. It will give you longer storage/industry spurs which at the moment can only accomadate two cars each. Otherwise looks good.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Don has the right idea that the legs need to be strengthened. However, I don't think total replacement is necessary. Either plywood gussets or 2x2 (5cm x 5cm lumber) braces set at a 45 degree angle should do the trick.

What I WOULD do, though, is unscrew it from the wall and put it on casters (small wheels) so that you can pull it out from that corner when you need to. It will be a constant nightmare the way you have it now.


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

the casters idea is a good one but thats not possable at the moment due to a bad floor in the garage and it wont roll ;-)

but i will be strenghtening the legs and moving it away from the wall ;-)


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> Don't take anything you see on YouTube as gospel. There are too many instant experts on there!


So very, very true and what a shame. You will also run into those who prefer to bully those new to the hobby.
I've been in this hobby for seven decades. Long before all the train books and the internet. I bought my first computer five years ago. Due to advanced PD I cannot run my trains anymore. I'm so glad for my computer as it allows me to keep in touch.

God Bless,
"Pappy"


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello Pappy, sorry to hear how you can no longer run trains. Could you not get someone to help you out with that?

The YouTube comment was brought home to me the other week when viewing one guys proudly uploaded video of his little Bachmann 44 tonner in which he had installed sound. Very good except he had put a steam sound decoder in!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Cycleops said:


> Hello Pappy, sorry to hear how you can no longer run trains. Could you not get someone to help you out with that?
> 
> The YouTube comment was brought home to me the other week when viewing one guys proudly uploaded video of his little Bachmann 44 tonner in which he had installed sound. Very good except he had put a steam sound decoder in!


I need look no further than my 12 year old son. Every so often, he comes up with some outrageous fact or Urban Legend. When I tell him he's flat out wrong, and ask where he heard it, his answer is, almost invariably, "Youtube". 

Having a video camera does not make one an expert.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Having a video camera does not make one an expert.


As an aside with the advent of small high quality video cameras like the GoPro there has been an explosion of self styled, usually cycling, vigilantes in the UK filming motorists on their mobiles, reading or whatever. They pass the footage on to the police who then prosecute. Does this happen in the US? I can imagine they might just get a gun barrel pointing at them if they tried it!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Cycleops said:


> As an aside with the advent of small high quality video cameras like the GoPro there has been an explosion of self styled, usually cycling, vigilantes in the UK filming motorists on their mobiles, reading or whatever. They pass the footage on to the police who then prosecute. Does this happen in the US? I can imagine they might just get a gun barrel pointing at them if they tried it!


I haven't heard of it, although that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Remember, though, that under our justice system, it's not enough to present evidence. You have to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that the crime occurred. This means that the prosecution would have to prove the authenticity of the video, which probably isn't worth the trouble, especially for a minor infraction.

Also, while 98% of gun owners are both rational and responsible, in the back of every American's mind must lurk the fact that any altercation can potentially prove fatal if you happen to encounter one of the wingnuts who own guns. Just a month ago, I had some guy following me because he believed I cut him off in traffic. I was on the point of calling 911 (emergency) when he went away.


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## Philhoggart (May 21, 2015)

been busy this week 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpd2uZI-8Xg


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Philhoggart said:


> been busy this week
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpd2uZI-8Xg


Runs very smoothly Phil. I see the HoG has had a manicure for the occasion😊


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