# New Layout Design



## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Well recently me and my wife found a new house to move into and it has a large room at the back of it perfect for my train room. The dimensions of the layout I want are on the pic posted below. So its a good thing I just started on my current layout at our house we are currently living in. My layout I have now I'm going to redesign it with a square bench work. I can add to it perfectly with 2 more sections to make a square. I'm attaching a diagram of what the bench work measurements will look like and also what the picture looks like in anyrail without any track yet. I have asked Massey to help me with this project also. But anyone else feel free to throw out suggestions or things you think we should change as I need any suggestions because I don't have the skill to make an awesome layout with my anyrail program. With that in mind here is what I would like to see on my layout.

Using Atlas Code 100 Track.
The only thing that is staying on my current layout table will be the river that is carved through it and the double track trestle bridge over the river see the pic below to see what section of the table has the river on it. I would like to have 2 continuous loops of track. A crossover that allows me to switch the trains to either of the loops. The inner for a passenger run and the outer for freight and misc. A large staging yard with with a three bay rail shop, an atlas turntable, an atlas 6 or 3 bay round house whichever will fit. I would like to have several industry spurs and a town area on 1 of the sides. Minimum turn radius I would like is 18 but would prefer 22 if 2 mainlines would fit with that curve radius. I have tried to list everything I can think of right now but if you have any questions let me know.

Thanks,
Josh


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Here is something I came up with tonight let me know what you guys think, and what I could change to make it better. The inner loop is for passenger runs through my town.


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## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

HOMODELTRAINZ2009 said:


> The dimensions of the layout I want are on the pic posted below.


For the sake of my sanity, please tell me that is in inches and NOT in feet


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

CasperFLSTC said:


> For the sake of my sanity, please tell me that is in inches and NOT in feet


I thought the same at first too!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Josh I like the new room dimensions but I dont like your idea of benchwork. The reach in is too deep, the operating pit too small and the duckunder is way too long for sane people. Would you mind if I threw a few other ideas your way? I need to know where the doors are in the room or if the layout will be near/block doors.

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

CasperFLSTC said:


> For the sake of my sanity, please tell me that is in inches and NOT in feet


Casper,

Haha no its just inches I wish it was feet my wife would never find me in my train room then lol.



Massey said:


> Josh I like the new room dimensions but I dont like your idea of benchwork. The reach in is too deep, the operating pit too small and the duckunder is way too long for sane people. Would you mind if I threw a few other ideas your way? I need to know where the doors are in the room or if the layout will be near/block doors.
> 
> Massey


 Sure not a problem at all I'm open to any help or suggestions Thank you. There are no doors that that the layout will be blocking its just a big open room. Oh I also forgot to mention there will be enough room to walk all the way around the outside of the layout too.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

If you can walk around the layout with it being that big then can you give room dimmensions so maybe we can expand a little more and have some extra freedom of construction? I think it would work out for the best.

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Massey said:


> If you can walk around the layout with it being that big then can you give room dimmensions so maybe we can expand a little more and have some extra freedom of construction? I think it would work out for the best.
> 
> Massey


Yeah I can do that it might take a few days though because we have not moved into the house yet.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

OK I would say lets do that before we proceed I think things will turn out much better in the long run.

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Ok no problem Massey.


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## Rail Jumper (Dec 14, 2010)

Hey Massey I was just reading your statement reguarding Veteran's. I like the point it makes about the "blank check for my life." But I'm feeling overlooked. I mean should not the Honorable Discharged folks like me be included in the list? I was active 4 years Navy then 2 years reserve.
Sorry for the thread Hi-jack trainz2009.


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## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

Rail Jumper said:


> Hey Massey I was just reading your statement reguarding Veteran's. I like the point it makes about the "blank check for my life." But I'm feeling overlooked. I mean should not the Honorable Discharged folks like me be included in the list? I was active 4 years Navy then 2 years reserve.
> Sorry for the thread Hi-jack trainz2009.


I would not dream of speaking for Massey's interpretation, but for me a "Veteran" has always been somone who completed at least 180 days of honorable service and was discharged with an Honorable discharge of some sort.

I retired early during the Clinton drawdown. I don't consider myself any less or any more than anyone who spent in 20 or less than 20. 

I DO beieve that it takes a certain type of person (good or bad your definition) to put in a career in the military. Day in and day out of dedicating yourself to the defense of the country in whatever capacity. And, as the saying goes, writing that "blank check" to the government for whatever they asked of you.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Rail Jumper said:


> Hey Massey I was just reading your statement reguarding Veteran's. I like the point it makes about the "blank check for my life." But I'm feeling overlooked. I mean should not the Honorable Discharged folks like me be included in the list? I was active 4 years Navy then 2 years reserve.
> Sorry for the thread Hi-jack trainz2009.


Massey wrote,
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."


I think he included you, as in one point of your life you did?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hey Josh, I like it.:thumbsup:











What are you going to do with the big green empty spot?
Room for more sidings there?
A mining operation?
Lumber mill?
Farm?


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## Rail Jumper (Dec 14, 2010)

CasperFLSTC said:


> I would not dream of speaking for Massey's interpretation, but for me a "Veteran" has always been somone who completed at least 180 days of honorable service and was discharged with an Honorable discharge of some sort.
> 
> I retired early during the Clinton drawdown. I don't consider myself any less or any more than anyone who spent in 20 or less than 20.
> 
> I DO beieve that it takes a certain type of person (good or bad your definition) to put in a career in the military. Day in and day out of dedicating yourself to the defense of the country in whatever capacity. And, as the saying goes, writing that "blank check" to the government for whatever they asked of you.


Thanks for sharing your definition of Veteran. Likewise, I agree a Veteran includes somone with an Honorable discharge from serving a term in the military. Thats my point.

Its just that after the word Veteran they list 4 conditions (for lack of better words). Well I'm not active duty, retired, in the national guard, or on reserve. Do you see the way I'm comprehending it?

Just use the word Veteran and leave out the list of conditions. Or else Honorably discharged should be included.


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

FWIW I recieved a award long after I had been honorably discharged. About 2 years after and my inactive reserve status was over.
My name, serial number and rank followed by "RET' are printed on the certificate.

No need to split hairs, a Vet knows he/she is a vet and that's the end of the story.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Gee, I win.  I have my honorable discharge around here somewhere.


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

big ed said:


> Hey Josh, I like it.:thumbsup:
> What are you going to do with the big green empty spot?
> Room for more sidings there?
> A mining operation?
> ...


Thanks Big Ed,

The empty spot will be my downtown area. I also added some spurs around the layout and replaced the long straight sections with 36" flex track see the pic below.


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## Rail Jumper (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm a novice at running trains and track planning so I might be jumping the rail here. But I only see one crossover on each loop, shouldn't you have crossovers for the train to get from the inner circle to the outer circles and vise versa? or would that not work when running multiple trains?


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## winnbear (Dec 23, 2011)

You have the paper saying you were in and honorably discharged. That is all that counts. You are part of the group. What are total dimensions of layout?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

A few changes that might help operations.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Rail Jumper said:


> Thanks for sharing your definition of Veteran. Likewise, I agree a Veteran includes somone with an Honorable discharge from serving a term in the military. Thats my point.
> 
> Its just that after the word Veteran they list 4 conditions (for lack of better words). Well I'm not active duty, retired, in the national guard, or on reserve. Do you see the way I'm comprehending it?
> 
> Just use the word Veteran and leave out the list of conditions. Or else Honorably discharged should be included.



I can see the confusion now but the statement is saying that any veteran regardless of how they served (AD/ RET/ Guard / RES) is some one who wrote that check. If you were guard and honorably discharged you are still a vet, same as those of us who have served as AD. I am not excluding those who have been honorably discharged, for to do so I would exclude my self as well since I was only able to serve 5 years before a training related injury made my presance on a ship a danger to myself and possibly others. 

The part that Ed posted in red is supposed to be there to cover us all who have served and are no longer serving with an honorable discharge. Dont worry I am counting you with my signature comment.

Massey


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Massey....just edit to add Honorably discharged to the signature?



OK Josh, I see now that the white area is open for you to work?
How about a lift out panel? 
You can add something on top, buildings or something then just lift out the whole piece to work. When your done just drop it back in.

How about a foam piece drop in for a big lake to connect to the river, with the foam it would be light enough to take on and off easily. Put a little island in the middle, some boats etc.:thumbsup:


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

NIMT said:


> A few changes that might help operations.





big ed said:


> OK Josh, I see now that the white area is open for you to work?
> How about a lift out panel?
> You can add something on top, buildings or something then just lift out the whole piece to work. When your done just drop it back in.
> 
> How about a foam piece drop in for a big lake to connect to the river, with the foam it would be light enough to take on and off easily. Put a little island in the middle, some boats etc.:thumbsup:


 Thanks, Sean
I tried some of the changes and I like it better now thank you. I will try to post an updated pic of the layout tonight.

Big Ed, I never thought about doing that I will look into that Thanks.


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Here is an updated pic let me know what you think.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

so are you still going with the large doughnut table design? if so I can see about working with this to make a suitable layout for you. Right now you have 2 cross overs in the south both going the same direction. You need to make them go oppisite so trains going each way can transfer from one main to the other.

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Massey said:


> so are you still going with the large doughnut table design? if so I can see about working with this to make a suitable layout for you. Right now you have 2 cross overs in the south both going the same direction. You need to make them go oppisite so trains going each way can transfer from one main to the other.
> 
> Massey


Yeah I'm gonna stay with the current design since the table is mostly built I just have to reattach the end sections. I tried making the other crossover go a different direction but I couldn't get the track pieces to line up properly.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

OK then and you can access the entire layout from all sides right? I have a few ideas I wann try with this setup. I will let you know what I come up with. Like I said before it will be in XtrkCAD and I can send you the master files if you want. I will post the jpg of the layout here. 

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Awesome Thanks, Yeah you can walk around the whole table it's not alot of room but enough for you to walk around it. Yeah that would be great if you could send me what you come up with. Thanks


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Ok so I moved some stuff around again. I added some more track to the staging yard and since I did that I had to move the coal mine which is now on the bottom of the layout. Let me know what you guys think.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

How about adding in a way to get the passenger cars out to the main line and back in?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

OK I sketched a quick idea for your mainline layout. Note there are no industries, town locations or yards, sidings or anything, this is just a mainline. I have ideas for a yard and industries but I want your thoughts on the main so far. This gives you a nice long run that is not simply a round in a circle, you will have elevations and hills, tunnels and bridges with this setup. That provides you a way to also divide the cities with out them looking right next to each other. Lemme know if you want me to work more on this idea or venture to something else.










Massey


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Dr. Massey to the rescue.


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Massey said:


> OK I sketched a quick idea for your mainline layout. Note there are no industries, town locations or yards, sidings or anything, this is just a mainline. I have ideas for a yard and industries but I want your thoughts on the main so far. This gives you a nice long run that is not simply a round in a circle, you will have elevations and hills, tunnels and bridges with this setup. That provides you a way to also divide the cities with out them looking right next to each other. Lemme know if you want me to work more on this idea or venture to something else.
> Massey


Yeah I like that sketch Massey, Just a few questions tho. Do you want to come to Indiana next weekend and start building the layout for me haha just joking. On a serious note what radius are the turns? Also where the tracks cross each other are these elevated sections or crossovers? So far I like what you came up with Thanks for taking time to do that for me.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The areas where the track crosses are planned elevation rises and the lowest radii turn is 18" and that is the one on the south east. The rest are 22" or larger Do you want me to continue making a layout with this setup? and if so what type of industries are you wanting?

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Massey said:


> The areas where the track crosses are planned elevation rises and the lowest radii turn is 18" and that is the one on the south east. The rest are 22" or larger Do you want me to continue making a layout with this setup? and if so what type of industries are you wanting?
> 
> Massey


Ok I was just curious but thats what I thought where it was elevated. Yeah go ahead with this setup I'm excited to see what you have in mind. The industries I would like to have would be a coal mine, scrapyard, and a logging mill.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I will work some more on it here soon. I hope you like my ideas. Also now you can see other patterns for your tracks so feel free to use some of what I have done to work on something that you may like. I get ideas as well from others who work on their layouts and that helps me get the tracks laid out how they like best. 

I do plan on adding a reverse loop or 2 as well so you can turn trains with out using the HOG method.

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Ok sounds good. Thank you


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

OK here is an idea for a yard and a couple of industries. Not very happy with the reverse loop situation as I can only find a good place for 1 of them. I know of another good place but track elevations prevent it from happening.










Lemme know what you think. The first track of the yard is the arrivals track and it allows for an engine to get out. it also has 3 more tracks for classification and you can choose one of the 3 for the departing train. I only have 2 industries so far but I can put more in with little trouble. Lemme know what you think and if you could shoot some ideas as to where you would like your passenger trains to stop that would be great too.

Massey


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Any Thoughts? 

Massey


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

Sorry Massey we have been busy packing and getting ready for the big move. Would it be possible to make the staging yard a little bigger? Also what turnouts are you using?


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

I put in some larger turns for my passenger trains 24 inch radius and cleaned up the track a little.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I think Massey is trying to steer you in the right direction.
Your design in mono directional and will get boring and tangled too quickly, if everything always has to go the same direction it's kind of a waste, you need reverse loops, preferably 2 of them to keep it interesting and tangle free. Take your finger and run around your design, you have too many places that you just get locked into a never ending loop!
Massey had the right Idea on his reverse loops, but instead of trying to go over or under the other line on a grade, just cross it!
I would also put in a passing track or two on the outside main line.
You also need more than 1/2 a crossover to get from the main to the inside loop and the yard. and your yard while it has some mass storage potential, it has Zero interest potential in running it.
Not trying to be harsh just have a few layouts of insight behind me.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Like NIMT said I am trying to get you away from the boring doughnuts and give your railroad some scenic interest as well as operational functuality. I can abandon my first design if you want something else but just to go around in circles. Your passenger equipment will run just fine on 22" in most cases and the equipment that does not like the 22" you can usually just add longer shank couplers to cure the derailing. 

My ideas for your layout are far from the complete thing, mainly it was ideas scribbled on your given space for your response and feedback. I feel that my yard will give you a much better and more realistic operation, it is based on the design I have for my own layout and that yard works pretty good and I can build up trains and break them down at the same time. I have only 3 tracks to mine I gave you 4 tracks. This yard can also easily incorporate the turntable you want to use. 

To be honest with you I feel that if you were to use the space in the room more efficently and abandon this large table benchwork for a more around the walls or around the room type of design, you could get your large radii curves, plenty of room for everything you want to build. and be able to do everything from one side of the layout and not have to worry about crawling 4 feet or so under the bench. From the size of this benchwork and you say you have room to walk around all sides of it, you should be able to make a pretty nice shelf style around the walls with a penninsula or 2 with comfort.

Massey


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Duck or crawl-unders suck. I'm only 38 and my last layout had one - it was awful. As you get older it only gets worse. Around the walls allows for easier assembly, maintenance and running.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I have a duck under on my layout and it is about 10" wide and about 55" high (at the top) and about 50 or so inches at the bottom so it is not much of a duck under. On another layout I had almost 4' of a crawl under and I dredded every time I had to get on my hands and knees to get to the other side. It was 40" to the bottom. This alone can make a layout fun or not to operate.

Massey


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