# Super-Chuffer Chuff Generation Enhancement



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've been considering how I could improve the way that the chuffs are generated with the Super-Chuffer. The current technology is by use of a reed switch and one or more magnets glued to either a driver or tender wheel. This is a most imperfect solution as the positioning of the magnets and switch is pretty touchy, and of course the magnets have been known to get knocked off at times.

I started by working on an optical sensor to sense reflective spots on the locomotive driver. While that worked better, it is still a bit too touchy to get working 100%.

Another issue with anything attached to the wheels is many locomotives have slop in the wheels whether they're the drivers or the tender trucks. When the wheels move to one side, you'd frequently hear missed chuffs.

Time to rethink this problem in it's entirety!

A long time ago, I believe it was Jon Z. from Lionel that suggested I should use a tach reader on the flywheel with a tach strip. I hadn't given that much more thought, I originally thought it would be more difficult than the current solutions. I also didn't know if there would be an easy way to calibrate the chuff settings to each locomotive. Flywheel sizes and gear ratios are all over the map, this complicates making a "standard" package, it has to be calibrated to each installation. Several incidents with the magnets made me revisit the idea recently.

This unit will be attached to the motor with double-sided foam tape. Given that there are many configurations of motors and flywheels, the sensor will optionally be left unsoldered so it can be spaced correctly and then soldered at the correct distance from the flywheel. The three connections are 5V, GND, and Chuff. All of them go to the Super-Chuffer which supplies the 5V power.

Calibration is simple, turn power off, place the calibration jumper over the two pins, and apply power. The LED at D1 will be on continuously indicating you are in calibrate mode. Carefully rotate the flywheel until your drivers have turned the desired distance between chuffs. This would typically be 1/4 of a rotation. With a typical gear ratio, the motor will be turned through four to six revolutions. When the driver has turned the desired distance, remove the cal jumper. The LED will go out signifying that the calibration value has been written to the FLASH memory. Cycle power, this time with the cal jumper off, and you are in normal operating mode. In this mode, the LED at D1 will flash for each chuff generated so that you can see that the operation is normal. The generated chuff signal goes to the Super-Chuffer and can also be routed from there to the TMCC R2LC chuff input to synchronize the sound with the smoke.

I have high hopes that this will provide a much more bullet-proof solution to generating chuffs for TMCC upgrades, I'd love to leave magnets and reed switches in the dust!

I've since upgraded the design from my first prototypes to include an output to drive optional ground lights.

I've done a few of these now, and here's a typical installation in a Lionel M1a locomotive.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

looks nice, clean and simple .. those type of tach tapes are very forgiving, work well in less than ideal conditions


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

This looks like a much better solution than the magnets. Nice job John.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks guys. The tach tapes are very non-critical, I just print them on shipping label stock. The number of stripes is also non-critical as you calibrate the chuffs after everything is installed. I'm getting close to getting a production slot to make these.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

Wheres the demo video so I can see how it works?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Doug, I think you can supply that one.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

An example of John's Super Chuffer, Chuff Genertor, and his handy work. Excellent upgrades for any steam engine.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I love the slow speed stuff, it really shows off the smoke.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Nice video LOS and Great job on the engine. :appl:
John, The superchuffer works great. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Why not mount a Hall Effect sensor and embed or attach magnets directly onto the flywheel?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Volphin said:


> Why not mount a Hall Effect sensor and embed or attach magnets directly onto the flywheel?


Because that would take a lot more work on the part of the person installing the kit. Embedding magnets in the flywheel is a whole lot harder than simply wrapping the tach tape around the flywheel. Gluing stuff on is why I started this project, I don't want to go back there. Stuff glued to the flywheel also has a tendancy to come off, think of the Lionel Odyssey I magnet ring as an example. Balance is also fairly critical for the flywheel, adding mass in the wrong place is bad.

The real reason that magnets on the flywheel won't work in any case is I need better resolution. I get roughly 24 stripes around the flywheel for each rev of the motor, that's 24 counts. That gives me a very fine resolution to calibrate the chuffs to exactly the positioning I desire. Magnets would give me a fraction of that resolution.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Do you change the resister? If so what value do you use?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TJSmith said:


> Do you change the resister? If so what value do you use?


The resistor has nothing to do directly with the Super-Chuffer, the smoke unit is really a separate issue. The Super-Chuffer controls the fan and does the optional lighting features.

I use various value resistors, depending on the specific smoke unit and what smoke control options I'm using.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The resistor has nothing to do directly with the Super-Chuffer, the smoke unit is really a separate issue. The Super-Chuffer controls the fan and does the optional lighting features.
> 
> I use various value resistors, depending on the specific smoke unit and what smoke control options I'm using.


So, if I understand you by installing the Super-Chuffer the smoke output, not just the puff effect, will be increased dramatically over the standard fan driven smoke unit without any modification to the original OEM resister. Is that correct?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

No, it does not increase the volume of smoke, it manages the duration of the chuffing for better appearance, and also cuts off the smoke more sharply to offer definition of the chuffs at higher speeds. In a standard TMCC rig that has chuffing smoke, the duration is usually dependent on how long the chuff switch is closed. Also, the smoke impeller coasts after power is removed and thus at any kind of speed, the chuffs just run together and output continuous smoke. Finally, with the Super-Chuffer, when the locomotive is stopped, the fan is run at a slower speed to provide idle smoke. This also keeps the smoke resistor from being cooked if you sit without any airflow through the smoke unit for any length of time. Many TMCC locomotives with fan driven smoke offered no chuffing at all, they just ran the smoke continuously, obviously many folks like the operation with the Super-Chuffer over that option.

To improve the volume of smoke for upgrades I do, I just do a tuneup of the smoke unit. That can include such things as replacing the wick, change the resistor, and changing the quantity of air flowing through the smoke unit by enlarging the intake and stack ports.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Because that would take a lot more work on the part of the person installing the kit. Embedding magnets in the flywheel is a whole lot harder than simply wrapping the tach tape around the flywheel. Gluing stuff on is why I started this project, I don't want to go back there. Stuff glued to the flywheel also has a tendancy to come off, think of the Lionel Odyssey I magnet ring as an example. Balance is also fairly critical for the flywheel, adding mass in the wrong place is bad.
> 
> The real reason that magnets on the flywheel won't work in any case is I need better resolution. I get roughly 24 stripes around the flywheel for each rev of the motor, that's 24 counts. That gives me a very fine resolution to calibrate the chuffs to exactly the positioning I desire. Magnets would give me a fraction of that resolution.


Interesting! So the tach tape acts as a speed sensor with an optical pickup? That IS easier than mounting magnets. I knew that scan-tron technology would come in handy one day! LOL


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Not so much a "speed sensor", though I do actually use the speed for the ground light feature. It's just a measure of how many rotations and partial rotations the flywheel has made. When you calibrate, say you want 4-chuffs/rev, you just turn the flywheel until you get exactly 1/4 a turn on the driver and then remove the cal jumper, calibration complete!

For the ground light feature, I use the number of tach pulses in a second to determine a rough speed and turn off the ground lights when that speed is exceeded. Once the speed drops below that value, (with a hysteresis band), I turn them back on.

Putting the tach tape on is very easy, the hardest part of the whole job is getting the sensor spaced correctly. You'd have to do that with a hall effect sensor in any case, so that's no different. 

I typically glue the board to the motor with high viscosity CA adhesive. For flywheels that are significantly smaller than the motor diameter, you have to space the sensor after mounting the board and then solder it, that's somewhat tricky for folks that don't solder! For flywheels close to the motor diameter, you typically have to just use various thickness spacers to properly space the sensor.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> No, it does not increase the volume of smoke, it manages the duration of the chuffing for better appearance, and also cuts off the smoke more sharply to offer definition of the chuffs at higher speeds. In a standard TMCC rig that has chuffing smoke, the duration is usually dependent on how long the chuff switch is closed. Also, the smoke impeller coasts after power is removed and thus at any kind of speed, the chuffs just run together and output continuous smoke. Finally, with the Super-Chuffer, when the locomotive is stopped, the fan is run at a slower speed to provide idle smoke. This also keeps the smoke resistor from being cooked if you sit without any airflow through the smoke unit for any length of time. Many TMCC locomotives with fan driven smoke offered no chuffing at all, they just ran the smoke continuously, obviously many folks like the operation with the Super-Chuffer over that option.
> 
> To improve the volume of smoke for upgrades I do, I just do a tuneup of the smoke unit. That can include such things as replacing the wick, change the resistor, and changing the quantity of air flowing through the smoke unit by enlarging the intake and stack ports.


So to improve the smoke output after replacing the wick you change the resister. Do you use the same value resister that was in the smoke unit or do you use a different value resister? If you use the same value how does that improve the smoke output?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If I change a working resistor, it's usually to change the value as well. I change the stock 27 ohm Lionel to something in the 18-22 ohm range, it actually ends up differing at times. For MTH, I change those to a similar value for use with TMCC as well. I'm constantly trying new things to improve the smoke performance, so none of this is static.


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## robertlopez925 (May 20, 2011)

*Mth Smoke unit*

I cheat a little with the resisters on Mth Smoke units. I use the stock elements but add a TMCC AC Regulator gives me the control with TMCC and limits the power to the smoke unit elements so they don't burn up so far they worked very well.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have done a number of conversions where I used a bucking switching supply to feed the smoke unit and run it from the TMCC output from the R2LC. The regulator adds too much cost to the job, not to mention how often I replace them for customers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The deed is done, at least the main PCB. Here's one that is all wired up after programming to test. As this is my "first article" test, I have the optional ground light output wired for testing as well. I didn't expect any surprises, and I didn't get any, they work like a champ. One improvement I made when I went to production is to cut the thickness of the PCB from .062" to .031", no reason to have any more thickness than necessary for the board.









Next step is to work out the kinks in making the mounting plates. I know what I need, and I can make them by hand, but I need a better method of making them in a bit higher volume. Here's what I'm trying to make, this one is made from .062 fiberglass using a Dremel tool. It's about .4" wide and .6" long. This is glued to the motor as a mount for the chuff generator board. If more spacing is needed, they're just stacked up on the flat side. The radius of the concave cut is about 1 1/4", splitting the difference between the Mabuchi and larger Pittman motors. 

I'm looking for ideas for tooling or materials to do this simply. I'd love to find some flat stock with the concave curve already in one side, then I could just cut it to length!









BTW, this is how they're actually manufactured, they do panels of them to minimize the amount of handling. The individual boards are V-scored at each end, so you just break off the excess fiberglass and you have a board.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Very nice John. This is a nice improvement to your superchuffer. I enjoy following your progress. thanks for sharing.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks Pat, this is going to make it nicer to install the Super-Chuffers, makes a much neater and more reliable package.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

Hey that looks simple enough that I might even be able to install them..... well, maybe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well Doug, you can make yourself very useful figuring out how to create the little mounting block. I'm thinking of a router bit, but I don't have anything with the correct curve to cut it.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

A router bit with the proper radius would probably work the best, run through a guide to do twenty inch lengths at one pass, and then trim to length .. for initial cut to width, either score and break, or just saw to width [ for 0.062 pcb material ] 
cutter life span would be relatively short, not because of the copper removal, but because of the abrasive nature of the board material itself ..
other alternatives may be to make a multi part silicone mold, and cast with resin, or a specialty wood molding store where they have ready made trim molding with that profile , and cut to length if you okay with a MDF or solid wood mount

edit: i'm assuming low quantity, for larger quantities injection molding may be preferrable, i do have a small home made manual injection molding machine


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Finding the correct bit is the trick. Both of my routers have 1/4" chucks, and all the box cove bits I find that are 1 1/4" diameter need a 1/2" chuck.

By "quantity", I'm talking a couple hundred, I don't think injection molding is really practical for me.

I'd like this to be a non-porous material, wood probably isn't a good choice. I don't know that MDF would be suitable, perhaps HDF. However, it only comes in 1/8" and thicker pieces, I need the piece to be half that. Styrene could be another choice to make them.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

How about the Plastruct brand of ABS shapes?


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

high density foam is easily formed with a hot wire cutter, and stiffer nichrome wire will hold 
shape reasonably well , but may not be rigid enough for your needs ..
a cheap and nasty alternative would be to use styrene strips of the right width, and make a guide channel from wood to keep the strip from moving, and then use an ordinary sanding drum of the right diameter to sand out the radius, low cost and easy to make, drawback is only doing a couple of inches at a time, plus the dust  ..
wood molding can readily be sealed, but the drying time would be more than th fabrication time ..


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

laidoffsick has a possible solution?
would a suitable size of channel styrene work out okay?
depending on how you intend to bond the pcb to the mount, and mount to motor?
channel should conform to motor size variations reasonably well?/


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I took the "low tech" solution for the first bunch of them. I used the Dremel with a reinforced cutoff wheel. It's about the right diameter, so I just clamped a piece of fiberglass of the right width in my vice and ran the wheel up and down sideways. Surprisingly, it worked way better than I thought it would. so I suspect for small quantities that's what I'll do. I whacked out about 30 of them in around 10-15 minutes, for the quantities I see needing, that may be the best option. I was surprised how well it worked, I would have never guessed it would be that easy.

I did think about the styrene U-channel, that might work. You don't have the same size glue surface, that's one issue. I'd also have to size the styrene channel to the motor for the best fit, you don't want the board projecting farther than absolutely necessary from the motor, shell fit is an issue in many case.

I use CA to bond to the motor and to bond the board to the mount. For the ones with a flywheel of similar size as the motor, I'll include a few various thickness shims to properly space the sensor, those sensors will be flush soldered "at the factory". For Pittman motors in large steamers with a smaller flywheel, you'll just use the curved mount and those sensors will be soldered in by the user. Obviously, this requires some soldering skill, so this install won't be for everyone, especially the second option.

One hurdle out of the way, time to move on to the next one.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

gotta love low tech ... 
glad that project is a go for you ..


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, after looking around for fancy solutions, the ol' Dremel came to the rescue again!


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

If only McGyver had a Dremel Tool back in the day


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

He would have been deadly!


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Congrats John on your continued inventions. Great stuff.

Now if we can get you some gaskets, you'll be in good shape. (inside joke)


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I keep checking my mailbox.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

Hi John,
I was thinking of a possible application for the chuffer board. 
The MTH signal man cars operate off the conventional bell whistle button.
The brakeman comes out from the back of the caboose or out of the boxcar when activated.
I thought it would be nice to have this activate when the train stops. 
Could the board do this out of the box ? or could it be slightly modified to do so ?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the problem with that idea is the board is mounted to the motor in the locomotive, how do you get the signal back to the caboose or boxcar?


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, the problem with that idea is the board is mounted to the motor in the locomotive, how do you get the signal back to the caboose or boxcar?


 I was thinking about mounting a separate board in the boxcar or caboose, Then using the old magnet and reed switch to sense motion. When the car stopped then the output would go hi or low to activate the mechanism.

Maybe use the reed switch to power a relay through a supercap,
assuming the car was moving fast enough to get a charge on the capacitor, After the car stopped the cap would discharge and release the relay and activate the mechanism.

I guess I should have been a little clearer in my thoughts. 
it was just an idea, You probably have enough parts in your junk drawer to do this. I just don't have the expertise to design a circuit....

Bruce..


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, if you wanted to do that, it could be done fairly simply with a mono-stable retriggerable 555 circuit. Since my board has an optical input, you'd have to replace the optical sensor with the switch and reprogram the uP for the function.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

Thanks John,
I'll save the image and maybe save it for a winter project....

Bruce....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

As the day of release comes near, I'm trying to wrap up the documentation for the installation of the Chuff-Generator. I've attached the draft copy of the instructions, _any suggestions are welcome_. I'm trying to keep this to two pages so it can be printed double-sided on a single sheet of paper.

_Edit: draft copy removed, see following post for release documentation._


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For anyone that has been following this, the Chuff Generator is now up on the _*Henning's Trains*_ website. I've also attached a release copy of the installation instructions so you can see what is involved in installing one.

10200 - Programmable CHUFF-GENERATOR


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

looks good, hope you sell a thousand of them


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A few hundred would do fine for me.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Looks like a great product, John. Good luck with the sales.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> A few hundred would do fine for me.


But a few thousand or so would be so much better. 
Yes?
You may even have to employ some Chinese to keep up with the orders. Or maybe Mexicans? 

Anyone thinking about one better hurry, as there seems to be only 6 in stock?
I still say Made in the USA on the description would be a nice touch. 
Good luck with your newest product promotion.:smokin::thumbsup:
What is next on the burner?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Not to worry, I can whack some more kits out in a couple of hours, I have another 100 completed boards sitting here. 

Next is probably my do-it-all sound board with sounds, servo for motion, and light outputs. I have the hardware waiting on me to do the software.


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