# 252



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

New Recruit here, or one just came out of retirement? A 1926-28 0live painted 252 electric engine with a pendulum reverse switch. To date the oldest engine I own if I can get it to work. Let's take a look.










Here is the end of the switch. issing a wrap around headlight.










Brass trim










It does have the pantograph and whistle.










Nickel journals



















A short story of how it came to be.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Looks good sitting on the flatcar, watch out for low bridges.

The Tin Man is going to be jealous.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You start by disassembling and cleaning. Making sure not to bust any screws.










A look on the inside.




















The motor is complete nothing missing. The wheels have no big broken pieces.









A close up of the switch.










The under side.


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Nice little locomotive. My brother bought one a few months ago and I like it.

Fair warning if you haven't worked on a pendulum unit before, if you disassemble the reverse switch for cleaning, watch out for the 4 springs and contacts that slide over them.

I did not enjoy crawling all over the floor looking for the springs.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Nothing beats experience.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The gears had dirt. I oiled heavily and wiped. 












I exposed the aemature for cleaning.





















I dealt with a spider. I removed the connections to the switch and got ready for a bench test










Four wires, two from the coil and one from each brush.










I connected a brush wire to a coil. and applied transformer voltage to the other two.The brushes do not easily get removed so I cleaned them a little. One test didn't work because the bush was stuck up and not making contact. Otherwise the bench test was fine, The motor works,. Next is to clean the pendulum switch and inspect the center roller. I know that needs adjustment.

Here is the wire connections to the coil.


----------



## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

Looks easy enough, it will be running in no time.

Pookybear


----------



## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

I figured he'd get it running, I wanna see the shell when he's finished, the process as well. LoL


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> A 1926-28 0live painted 252 electric engine with a pendulum reverse switch.


T-Man, I'm pretty sure that's a manual reverse switch, not one of the early pendulum-style e-units.



T-Man said:


> the bench test was fine, The motor works.


Excellent! Plenty of life left in that baby! :thumbsup:




big ed said:


> The Tin Man is going to be jealous.


Oh yeah ... droolin' with jealousy!!! 

TJ


----------



## NYC 5344 (Dec 26, 2012)

Very cool. Can't wait to see it run.


----------



## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Sweet! Lookin forward to a cool resto project!:thumbsup:


----------



## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Never ceases to amaze me as to how lucky you get hwell: Overall looks like a very promising candidate, shouldn't take too much to have it back runnin'. Nice find.

Carl


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ,
I thought the round manual switch was a pendulum?????


Your right Jeff has it.

Thanks for the nitpic


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This one wheel looks cracked, or is that grease buildup?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

There is cracks on that one wheel. I will epoxy it. I want the original look but if it shatters maybe look for a used wheel. Think think think ,I may have one, thanks ED you did it again!
It really is in good shape. My spring tension is low. I still have the bridge project too. I will check for a used wheel. Just one.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I looked through my big wheel bag and could not find any solid wheels like that mine are all have spokes.

I think there is another bag in a box....somewhere.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I do , I do.










And a bent axle on the other side,










A little turn later.


----------



## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*new recruit*

Hey,T..I like the way you showed the break down of this engine. It will sure help the rest of us on our breakdowns.

I`m sure jealous Really nice find.

have fun,sanepilot


----------



## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Quite a wheel warehouse you have there!


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I took both sets off and found more dirt.



















SO the new used gearwheel is flat not raised like this.










Now add some epoxy and a washer and hope it holds.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Brass Removal*


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Today was clean the shell day.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> TJ,
> I thought the round manual switch was a pendulum?????
> 
> 
> ...


Right ... the CON-20 per his lisitng. There's actually a few slightly different versions of this ... basically the same core, but with subtle differences to the lever/knob.

Sidebar ... I've never seen or fiddled with a true old-school pendulum e-unit before (1920's or so). Have you?

TJ


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice breakdown / cleanup, T.

I LOVE your old wheel box. I'm a bit shocked, but I Love it!

(Now we all know where old wheels go to die. Well .. be reincarnated, really!)

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

We have a wheel man among us! :thumbsup:

All I have dealt with is the circle switch. I can't remember what is in the 249e.


----------



## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

So far, so good:thumbsup:

How are you going to strip the metal, and what colors will you use to repaint it?

Does anyone make resto paints for old trains?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

GO with oven cleaner, and some parts people stock original colors. So far I will not repaint.


----------



## Hellgate (Nov 9, 2011)

Gotta love the old Ionels!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> All I have dealt with is the circle switch. I can't remember what is in the 249e.


Same type of manual switch, T. You had one here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=51568&postcount=46

One in my 262 loco, too:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10849

My wiring diagram for the manual switch (as used on my 1681 locos), here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10849

Note that the above flips current through the field, with a fixed/grounded armature. The switch could do the opposite, too ... flip current thorugh the armature, with a fixed/grounded field.

Cheers,

TJ

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is the mytey motor I had in the junk box. I tested it using the 252 brushes and it runs. The 252 has poor spring tension. As it turns out I need to screw that holds the switch to the motor. 











This is the reverse switch. Apart of course.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I had this bent grab iron. I used a two small pieces from brads and using them inside bent it by hand into place. Plus a little squeeze here and there to flatten it out.


----------



## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

*Enjoying this thread*

T-man, I'm new to the forum, and I am following this particular thread with great interest. I have an olive 252 of my own that was given to me by a neighbor when I was a kid back in the sixties. It has always run for me every time I've set it down on the tracks, despite the fact that I never maintained it properly. In fact, until December 2012, it had spent at least 20 years in a box in either a basement or an attic. I am now able to spend more time with the trains and want to restore and maintain them properly. Your thread is a great help! Thanks!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T -- Just like some of the boiler piping on my 262 loco, I'm intrigued to see that Lionel used "half circle" simple sheet metal pressings for those handrails (rather than an actual pipe or rod). I guess when they're tabbed to the loco shell, one would never know the difference. Cost-effective strategy on Lionel's part, of course.

Upsman -- great to have you onboard. T-man's project threads are a GREAT tips resource. We have a nice group of prewar/tinplate guys here ... welcome to the gang. Post some pics of your 252 at some point.

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I was thinking about the 252 today. The next step is to wire the switch correctly. I had trouble with the center rail connection and cheated with a second wire. Expect to see more.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That'll work! 

On that motor, you don't have the option of being able to remove the nameplate to get access to the wire grommet/solder hole. (Which I can do on the Lionel Jr. motors.)

Your soldered wire gets 'round that just fine. Easy!

What's up with the "spiral grooves" on the face of the middle gears? Part of the factory machining? Are those metal? They almost look like fiber or something in the photo.

Looking forward to your progress, T!

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I should of checked the connection when the axle was out. There is just no way to get behind it. I am not sure I could solder with the axle out. PUlling the roller assy. off is not an option. They get ruined in the process so I cheated and did my trick. I hope the wheels hold up. The gears are metal and have no idea on the swirls. I wanted to show the engine cleaned. 

Can you suggest any greens for a repaint?. I would like to keep the olive color.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

A little testors on the wheels and some new wire. Test on the track was good. :thumbsup: The switch was mounted with contact plate on each side and the gap in the middle. Then tha brush connections are attached opposing not next to each other. The coil and center connections fill in the last two.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

TJ, the swirls on the intermediate gears are witness marks made by the gears on the wheels.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> TJ, the swirls on the intermediate gears are witness marks made by the gears on the wheels.


Really? Possible, I guess. If so, I'm surprised they are so perfect in the abraded pattern like that. Maybe some residual machine marks from the original gear mfr, instead?

T -- does the face of the larger gears actually touch the wheels, or is there a gap inbetween (in way of the intermediary smaller gear)?

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I checked and the gears are bakelite.Deeply grooved.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ohhh!!!

Bakelight gears. I don't recall seeing that before. And Bruce is probably right ... the gear that's integral with the wheel has grooved the face of the softer bakelight gear in that neat/perfect spiral pattern. Just like that SpiroGraph toy we all used to have as kids!!!

Thanks for that clarification / extra photos, T ... sheds some light on my questioning.

Bruce -- good call!

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is my 248. The brush plate is identical to the 252 I have. I am using the one from the spare that is different.
One difference is the frame attachment. The frame has the squares for a switch but no slot in the shell. Hmmmmm.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I slapped the shell on and gave it a test drive. Give it a few minutes to upload to you tube.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Runs good T man.:thumbsup: Or should I say well?


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fast little bugger, isn't it?!?! :thumbsup:


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The black frame was still intact. So, I dressed up the shell for a show. Time to clean up that frame now. It will get a repaint and shine.The springs were better from the spare motor. I'ts good to have parts.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

As the guy said in the fried chicken commercial years ago, "Pawrts is pawrts!"


----------



## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

Looks great T-Man. Nice work!


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*More work to do.*

Overnight, the standard soak in oven cleaner. Today a few cycles with scotchbrite and more soaking.




















The inside was stubborn.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*So far*


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Lookin' good, T. First time I've seen an electric frame up close like that. I didn't realize the motor was mounted by those "cross brackets".

Also, that coupler in mounted captive on a peened stud, huh? Not the twist-tab-end latch couplers like we see for other prewar stuff. Intersting ...

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ, you need another desk or shelf and to keep busy and load them up!

Most, if not all the engines have riveted couplers. So far anyway.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Most, if not all the engines have riveted couplers. So far anyway.


I assume you're talking about electric-style locos, with the coupler direct on the loco (as opposed to a draw bar on a steamer)?

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The prewar electrics. They have the steel frames.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Frame is painted.*




























Found this in my junkbox. I had one after all!!:thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well stocked junkbox.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T,

Frame looks great.

I just noticed that your 248 has the nickel "leaf spring" fittings above the journal boxes, whereas the 252 does not. No criticism meant there, but rather, I'm simply admiring the details of those leaf springs on the 248.

What are the brass cylinders on each corner of the frame? I see that many prewar electrics had those, but what did they represent on a real-world prototype? Any idea? Whatever, yours are now nice 'n shiny!

Now that I'm thinking about it, the "slot" in that coupler might be a transition piece to allow compatibility with Ives trains, when Lionel bought out / produced Ives trains. Thoughts here?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

They're flag holders.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks. I thought they might be. But Lionel didn't sell their prewar elec locos with flags mounted there, did they??? That's what makes me wonder if they were some protypical bumper or braking thing-a-ma-jig ???


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

They sell repro flags plastic I think red and white. I have seen them on E bay.

Who knows about the draw bars. They may have upgraded to butterflies too. They are adapters for the older method.


Looking at the 248 after your comment, it has two ladders, the 252, one.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I got the funny coupler on. It was long. It took a trick or two to fit right.



















I had to grind down a nut to fit in a tight space. I held the nut on a screw and used a pair of pliers and a scewdriver to hold it against a grinder.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice job on the nut grind/squeeze.

Any thought to painting that exposed phillips-head screw black? If it were brass, I'd say leave it, but steel? ... Looks too modern to me. (Sorry T ... i just finished watching the Super Bowl, and i've got a bit of an armchair quarterback buzz thing going on!)

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Maybe I can get a brass replacement?


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Gotta be something you can grab from the infamous Junk Bin, perhaps?!? 

(Apologies, again, T ... you know i only mean well!)

TJ


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

A dab of black paint on it and it would all but disappear.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*I like brass/*


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

< TJ does a little Happy Dance ... insert gif animation here ... >

Much better, T ... looks vintage to me!

TJ

Hey ... I found one! ...


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Are you going to paint the shell?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have to find a suitable grreen. I am in no hurry and plan to enjoy it as is, for a while.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice job t-man, I don't know if it would have ran on the track with the steel bolt! Good pics too. Also I picked up a great tip, I always cut my bolts with a saws all. Time to take the polishing wheels off the grinder I never use. Thanks.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*For now.*

I placed the brass on, for now. I do need a light.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Looking quite nice, T!

You were lucky to have all of the handrails, ladder, journal boxes, etc.

How long is that loco, end-to-end?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

2 and 3/8ths by 7 and 3/8ths on the frame.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, T.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man did you ever find the color for this?
I was searching for something and came across this thread.

I found out the other day that Auto zone will match your color and put it in a rattle can.
I never knew this. I always thought they might be able to match a color, but I thought it would be in a quart can.
I think other auto supply chain stores do this too.

Cool in a rattle can. :thumbsup:

On my 99 pu I painted my bumpers after I found that duplicolor had my color in a spray can. I used to have gray metal bumpers, now I matched them to the color of the pickup and they look so much better.
I clear coated too, they came out pretty good.
Now I have to match the paint on my old 1963 Snowbird snowblower I bought last year.
Edit, The old Bird cleaned up, they don't make them like they did back then anymore.:smokin:
















*Bring that body with you and match the paint in a rattle can?*


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Before and after, ( one shot blurry )

Edit, I might change the gray grill color to something else.
Have to decide what, chrome, stainless steel? I have to think about that, I don't really like the gray.
Alien Green?


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2015)

Looking good, T Man.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I didn't know about Auto Zone but if another green project come up I may just do it.

The dump lever is pushing me to limits, without a template, on the 3652. Still plying with it.

Now that fall is in the air it may be time to check out local antique shops. The 252 was found on RTE 4. I haven't done BOMARs in a long time in Wells, Me.

The truck and the snowblower are looking good:thumbsup:


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Oh, what an incredibly cool project. Wonderful. You are very lucky to have that. 

Have fun and post lots of pictures of your progress please.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lee Willis said:


> Oh, what an incredibly cool project. Wonderful. You are very lucky to have that.
> 
> Have fun and post lots of pictures of your progress please.



This thread is from late 2012/ early2013 Lee.
It is about done, just needs paint someday.

Did you start at the beginning of this thread?
Maybe you missed the start?
Pictures and info there.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I did buy a wrap around type light, but it didn't fit. For now I am staying with the scratched green. Since I work on trains now and then, I tend to did one up of mine that matches what I am working on and improve it.


----------



## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

I think after I finish my 259e this will be my next locomotive of choice


----------

