# Lionel Locomotive-8500



## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

I know it is not worth much but it is mine and I want it to run. It did not run at all so I took it apart and cleaned the brushes. It worked for a little while then stalled. Seems to run until it warms up. Any ideas on what I need to do to fix it would be apprciated.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Clean and oil the gearing, axle bearings, any moving parts, etc.?

Clean the pickup rollers/contacts. Clean the track. Etc.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

When the loco stalls, what do you do to get it running again? Does the reverse unit cycle the engine properly? Is the reverse unit locked in forward? Give us some details, please.

Larry


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

askfl7 said:


> I know it is not worth much but it is mine and I want it to run. It did not run at all so I took it apart and cleaned the brushes. It worked for a little while then stalled. Seems to run until it warms up. Any ideas on what I need to do to fix it would be apprciated.


This is the typical sign of resistance. As heat goes up so does resistance.
clean everything. Brushes, brush holders, commutator, e-unit drum and fingers, pick-up rolls and track. 

Also as already started lube up all the moving parts on their contact points
including the wheels on any cars of the set. Less seen load placed on the
motor will reduce the current needed and less current = less heat and less heat = resistance.

Hope this helps. And note there are some great threads on cleaning and
oiling motors, just do a quick search you will find them.

Pookybear


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> Clean and oil the gearing, axle bearings, any moving parts, etc.?
> 
> Clean the pickup rollers/contacts. Clean the track. Etc.


Thank you. I am having the problem on my bench, so I know the track is not the issue. I did clean the pick up. How do i get the wheels off to clean inside? I would like to run the motor alone and see if it runs for any length of time.


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> Clean and oil the gearing, axle bearings, any moving parts, etc.?
> 
> Clean the pickup rollers/contacts. Clean the track. Etc.


I cleaned as much as I could, the track is not the issue. With the motor out, the wheels move smoothly. Thank you for your reply.


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

pookybear said:


> This is the typical sign of resistance. As heat goes up so does resistance.
> clean everything. Brushes, brush holders, commutator, e-unit drum and fingers, pick-up rolls and track.
> 
> Also as already started lube up all the moving parts on their contact points
> ...


Ok, this is where I also think the problem is. The brushes seem to pick up gunk on the surface pretty quickly. I am wondering if they are worn an too short. How do I remove the brush holders to clean tehm, I do not want to damage the springs. What is the e unit? I am also wondering if heat is causing a winding to separate.


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

TrainLarry said:


> When the loco stalls, what do you do to get it running again? Does the reverse unit cycle the engine properly? Is the reverse unit locked in forward? Give us some details, please.
> 
> Larry


Thank you, I have just been bench testing. If a wait a few minutes it wii run again. The brushes seem to pick up gunk pretty quickly which i scrape off. The is no reversing unit, just a switch in the cab. I do not know what new brushes should look like and wonder if these are too worn down to stay held in position by the springs. I will say that there is a bit of a neck still on the bottoms of the brushes.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Larry, modern era is not that simple. Two reverse units are made. Mechanical and electronic. The electronic is quiet. The mechanical you can hear the cycling. SO far I am trying o figure out what a 8500 is??????
The manual shows a DC can motor of which you don't clean the brushes. SO what do you have??? It could be a glitch. It was described as the AC motor and two position reverse.

First I went here

Down load sypplement 1-9


page 8 in adober or viii of the manual states it is ac/dc with a two position reverse a 2-4-0. So are right so far???

Then it it is the same as the 8300 and 8502


I am going to guess 3-36 on page 145 as the engine. 8140,8302

Similiar engine is on 15-57 page 406 (8506-601 motor)and to compare it to a DC can motor on 15-93 page 441.

16-3 or 462 adobe gives the wire diagram and the two postion technical information.

on 16-17 and 476 has the expanded motor diagram with smoke and lights.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Heat may be coming from the armature plates. Clean between each plate, the residual carbon causes a short. If the copper plates are worn and grooved, it may help to smooth them out. Crocus or 400 grit works,other wise use an eraser. This type of smoothing is only neccessary once every 20 years or so. Too much and you may ruin it.


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

T-Man said:


> Larry, modern era is not that simple. Two reverse units are made. Mechanical and electronic. The electronic is quiet. The mechanical you can hear the cycling. SO far I am trying o figure out what a 8500 is??????
> The manual shows a DC can motor of which you don't clean the brushes. SO what do you have??? It could be a glitch. It was described as the AC motor and two position reverse.
> 
> First I went here
> ...


8500 is the cab number on this unit, I also have an 8300' same st, Thunderball Express. Reversing unit is a switch in the cab. No smoke or lights, just a simple 2-4 with a "Pullmor" motor. I will check the link you sent. 
Thank you.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

T-Man, I asked a general question, not knowing what specific locomotive it was. Unfortunately there are numerous locomotives that have the cab #8500, and all of them, except this engine, are diesels. I presumed -incorrectly- that the engine was the Fundimensions era GP-9 with cab #8500

Larry


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

TrainLarry said:


> T-Man, I asked a general question, not knowing what specific locomotive it was. Unfortunately there are numerous locomotives that have the cab #8500, and all of them, except this engine, are diesels. I presumed -incorrectly- that the engine was the Fundimensions era GP-9 with cab #8500
> 
> Larry


It is steam, on page 406.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I misread you post Larry. Silly me.

I find the diagram first since New mwmbers cannot posts pictures easily until after 10 postings. Some have used links and have been thrashed by the spambot. 

So the engine has a dual coil that is used to reverse the motor. Hot to the touch is not good. At this point clean everthing including the wheels, roller and track. It will improve or eventually overheat and kaput.

Use that picture for reference if you look enough another page may turn up but I am hoping the parts are the same. That is why you need a good page. With the other identical engine you have something for comparison.
Is that armature removable? In some cases the drive wheels or the gear prevent it.


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

T-Man said:


> I misread you post Larry. Silly me.
> 
> I find the diagram first since New mwmbers cannot posts pictures easily until after 10 postings. Some have used links and have been thrashed by the spambot.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have removed the armature, it looks fine, clean and shiny. It runs much longer in reverse but still quits after short smooth run.


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## askfl7 (Jan 15, 2012)

Thank you all for your help. Turns out it is the brush plate.


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