# Marx 999



## T-Man

I cleaned the wheels and added the spring for the copper pickup and it runs. The reverse unit is a little mystery. The last picture is half of one from another junker. I do not have a date for this engine either. The light socket is insulated from the frame. So the sides are hot and the center is ground for the socket.


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## Rob Snyder

T-man that looks just like my Marx engine. Although mine's in pretty rough shape. I'd like to know more on how you fix them.


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## T-Man

Do you have a number??

Start by cleaning the wheels. The brushplate needs to be cleaned. Take care of the nus they are #4 36 thread and are not readily available. CClean the top of the armature plate. The front tabs must be squared for removal to get the rods out of the way for cleaning. The center pickup being copper has a sping in the center and one wire to the bulb socket. That's about it. If the reverse doesn't work just bypass it. They do not like switches or crossovers but otherwise are fun little engines. I have one from an uncle he got as a child in the forties. It has no number. I just needed a center picup and it works fine.


The final say was an 898 built between 1946 and 1952.


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## Rob Snyder

No numbers on it that I can find.


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## T-Man

Yours is a Nickel Plate Road 994. Mine is a NYC 898 or 591.

I did learn ebay doesn't know how to list engines, ,more research is needed.
If the field and armature are not corroded it should run. You can test it with DC power.

You have a detailed front.Mine has tinplate front. I know it is not a 400 or 490 or the 999. The 400's had plastic shells. The rest were all with color and road names.
I did find a parts guy MARX PARTS

The Thor page lists all the Marx trains


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## Rob Snyder

Thankfully nothing but the center pickup and the gear drive of the wheels were corroded. i cleaned that all up and sanded the loco down for a repaint. If it doesn't run, I'll keep it for a nice show piece.


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## T-Man

*E unit*

I got the 999 working and started on the 400. Now the problem is in the reverse unit. 
First step was clean wheels and pickup, check wires.
Remove front bar,Clean brushes, brush plate and rods.
Then clean armature. 
Then lube and test.

Now to look at the reverse mechanism.
It has no screws and needs to be pryed apart.On further reasearch it is impossible to clean . It needs to be taken apart so the wheels have to come off. Four nuts the frame splits. See later post. It essentially has a coil, a wedge and a copper u shape wire to tilt the wedge . 


This unit has a switch but no access through the shell. Weird?? You can see the wire on the left.









The wedge has two finger contacts. This area needs to be cleaned to work. Left and right are two different pieces on two different engines.




















Lastly I need to draw the diagram for the wiring. I am not completely sure how it works.


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## T-Man

*The tender*

I untabbed the pieces and painted the top and base and weights. Then I cleaned the wheels. I didn't touch the sides.





























The final picture was out of focus.hwell:


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## Reckers

How do you handle the letters and such, T? Are you taping over the ID stuff?


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## T-Man

That's easy I did not paint the sides or that particular piece at all.


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## Reckers

Okies. Your post-paintjob pics on other engines made them look brand-new; I didn't know if you made any effort to mask the lettering or just painted over it. That's gonna be a fine-looking piece, when you're done.


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## T-Man

*Marx electrical diagram*

Here is the mystery. The current is reversed in the coil to reverse the motor. This is done with a wedge that has three contacts. One side is hot the other ground by tilting the wedge the current is redirected to the coil. So in the first case red 1 goes throught to green 1. Reverse is red 2 through the coil to green 2.

To bypass this unit connect a jumper from a coil wire to the top brush. With a pair of wires from a transformer touch the frame and the other coil wire to start.

The e units coil is not shown.


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## T-Man

*Take Apart*

Pull the wheels. Remove the screws and 4 nuts and the plate removes. These two will be combined for the 2nd 999. I need the top coil unit and the pickup for the second one to work. The 400 will be next, but for now I need to practice. The reverse unit on the 400 will have to be completely taken apart to be cleaned right. For this one the wedge looks ok on the second frame so I won't have to take it apart.


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## T-Man

*Put together*

I named my little engine Franky after Frankenstein. It even has the bolts in front like the neck decor. Anyway I took the brush plate, the e unit coil, and the center pickup, and added them to the second frame. I had to make cups for the press the rear wheels still had the the rod rivets intact. So a 3/8 th washer was handy.

The road test wasn't good the eunit heats up and sticks. By tapping it it will work.While working it will just stop.The pickup shoe is a good design and worked better than the older copper one piece. I am not looking forward to taking it apart again.

My little press was usefull.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man said:


> Here is the mystery. The current is reversed in the coil to reverse the motor. This is done with a wedge that has three contacts. One side is hot the other ground by tilting the wedge the current is redirected to the coil. So in the first case red 1 goes throught to green 1. Reverse is red 2 through the coil to green 2.



T-Man ...

I'm just reading this old thread re: your Marx E-Unit surgery. Very interesting ...

So, based upon what you're saying, and from what I've read about Lionel E-units, can we conclude:

1. Marx E-units reverse the motor by reversing the direction of current traveling through the fixed FIELD (and coil).

2. Lionel E-units reverse the motor by reversing the direction of current traveling through the spinning ARMATURE.

Very interesting, indeed ...

Thanks, T-Man!

TJ


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## Reckers

T-Man, I'm curious....when do you find the time to do all this stuff? Every morning, I get on this site and you've done about another 12 hours of repair/restoration work, complete with photos and descriptive text. Do you ever sleep????


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## Stillakid

*T-Man..........*

Bob, is this the same engine for the 999? Another of my "Toy Box", finds!

What should I be looking for in way of a shell for this? Front & Rear trucks? What tender?

Is there any engine safe from your intrusive surgery?:laugh::laugh::thumbsup:

Thanks,
Jim


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## tjcruiser

Jim,

Might be helpful info here

http://marxtinplatetrains.com/marx_guide_motors.htm

and here

http://marxtinplatetrains.com/marx_guide_locos.htm

Cheers,

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Jim,

My quick look makes me think your motor is for a #597 Commodore Vanderbilt loco. There are pre-war and post-war versions ... not sure which.

I see shells for the 597 offered on ebay pretty cheaply.

TJ


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## T-Man

I guess you like the thread.

The e unit bugged me so I went after it. I got three engines from that antique dealer two are 999. So to answer a question yes it is a 999 I can't remember which one. Probably the one that doesn't work.
The theory is true about the coil reversal since the armature is just set up for a ground. I think, way back that Lionel may have one engine of the same configuration back in the 40's one of the smaller engines maybe a Scout or even a prewar.

For time I just putter, as for pictures that is fast and easy. I try to keep my explanations simple.

The 999 is a 0-4-0 The NY tender should fit but I found another slope back that is the similiar to the 1615. I am not sure what goes with that one.

Jim, it matches the 999 what I can't tell you is that there may be more. The 999 has a drawbar attached to the frame. On second thought it matches my older no number engine. It does have a number I just don'r know what it is. I can tell from the rodes and the front crossbar where the rod tips rest.





























I am guessing the engine is a 591 from the 40's that's the time period for the engine. I got it from a relative who had it as a child. That was the only piece to survive.
It may be time to get a Marx reference.


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## T-Man

*UPdate*

I looked at ebay and found an 898 shell that matches the no number. The no number appears to have a lot in common with the spring powered engine. The shells look the same.

The 999 is a 2-4-2. I forgot my other engine has the front wheels but I do have he rear set. SO much for Marx. Oh yeah the time period for the work was over Feb vacation I had some time off at home.That's how I did it. Because of the time invovled I gave up on the e units for now.

Some clown is selling a lot of motors for Marx but without wheels. I feel that is useless. Especially the $20 shipping charge.


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## Reckers

I was beginning to think you were working and slaving over a hot stove, baking train shells 24/7!


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## Stillakid

Thanks T-Man! That looks exactly like my motor

TJ, I was on those sites months ago when I was trying to restore the 1st Marx engine. I had a feeling this was prewar because of some of the other stuff it was packed with(my older brothers stuff)

I might just let this one sit for now. I'm getting slap-happy from paint fumes


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## imatt88

T-Man,

You're engine is very similar to mine, almost exactly. 

I was hoping I wouldn't have to pull that little reverse unit apart, but it looks like it will have to happen


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## imatt88

pulled the e unit apart, bent one of the side frames in the process. Cleaned what I could, then managed to get it all back together and its still doing the forward/reverse thing

T-Man, have you had any luck with your e-units?


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## T-Man

One out of three. I have a 999 and a 400 not working. I have one working, a 999 2 -4-2 configuration. I stopped there. I have a Lionel 1060 that is kicking me down .Looks like another wheel puller before I do anything more.


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## imatt88

Bummer.

I'm hoping to attack my e units tonight. 

Does anyone make a wiring diagram for the motors on Marx engines?

My 400 has a bunch of extra wires hanging out, and I don't really think they're needed, but I don't know for sure

Any suggestions?

Cheers, Ian


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## T-Man

The 400 is the same as the 999. I have found that to remove the eeunit it is best to remove the wheels. A lot of trouble. I suggest that you just wire it forward. Center rail to coil coil to brush. Directions depends on which coil connection. Use the 999 diagram as a guide. I didn't work on the 400 so I am batting 500 with Marx eunits. So I am warming the bench on this one for now.


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## imatt88

T-Man,

Pulled the 400 apart and immediately found the spring on the bottom plate missing, the wire from the pickup to the coil missing, and the springs holding the brushes in are missing. Its no wonder this thing didn't run.

Sprayed it down with WD-40, let it sit, and now I'm wiping and using Q-tips to clean up.

Man, was this thing dirty!

Do you happen to have the wiring diagram for the 999? I sure could use it right about now

Cheers, Ian


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## tjcruiser

I happened to see this nice 999 description on a current ebay listing 

"Marx 999 Locomotive and NYC Tin 'Coffen' 8 wheelTender...

"For those who may be starting to add Marx to your Layouts/Train collection , these run on either O-27 or O gauge track just fine. If you have a Lionel Scout , then get ready to see this little Marx out perform your Lionel Scout by a long shot. Only the Metal Bodied - Heavy style motored Scouts can match these Marx Loco's. Well documented in a prior year, popular Toy Train Monthly ..."

Hear that? Outrun Lionel, aye? Sounds like the beginings of the *Great Model Train Forum Match Race* !!!

TJ


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## imatt88

Sweet!

I just bid on a junk 400 for parts. I also ran across an 8 wheeled tender for pretty cheap.

See if I can snag these things..


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## tjcruiser

T-Man & Ian,

Back to this thread ... sorry for jumping around ... a bit of info overlap ...

Is the squarish-U-shaped brass wire-rod in the center of the e-unit (on the outer face) the thing that helps toggle the wedge to flip sides with the solenoid is raised / lowered?

Does that U-rod exist only on one side of the e-unit?

Is the U-rod connected (mechanical, or perhaps magnetic) to the bottom of the solenoid plunger?

Just curious,

TJ


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## T-Man

*Marx parts*

Mikes trains and hobbies
Grossman Co
train exchange
Olsen's Parts
His train parts

Marx Train convention

Some of these companies are on ebay. Brush springs sold for a 1.00 so did a pickup spring but I am not sure if it is the right one.


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## imatt88

I just won a junk Marx 409 on eBay today.:thumbsup:

And I just purchased some Marx replacement parts from Robert Grossman for my 400.:thumbsup:


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## imatt88

TJ,

Yup thats the e unit alright. I'm still not sure how the brass rod figures into the forweard/reverse thing.

It is only on one side.

I have learned on thing for sure, if its dirty, it ain't gonna run right


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## tjcruiser

imatt88 said:


> I'm still not sure how the brass rod figures into the forweard/reverse thing.


No worries ... if you ever get it figured out, do me a favor and drop a little update here.

Thanks!!!

TJ


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## imatt88

:thumbsup:


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## T-Man

On a Lionel unit it is called the pawl. Depending what side the brass pulls on the wedge determines the direction.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man, Ian,

Take note of Marx e-unit pic and ebay auction discussed on this thread ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=28460&posted=1#post28460

TJ


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

We've had a few recent questions about Marx e-units, and I find myself scratching my head with a question ...

Is the wedge-style Marx e-unit a two-position unit (fwd-reverse-fwd-reverse), and if so, does the wedge truly flip direction of current through the field coil, or ... is it more like the Lionel Scout two-position e-units that rely on a dual-wounded field coil, whereby the e-unit choose either the clockwise or counterclockwise wound coil on the field?

Or, it the Marx wedge a full 4-position e-unit?

In looking at your Post 12 diagram, I'm still trying to figure out how this thing works.

Just curious,

TJ


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## T-Man

Yes, the current is flipped through the field coil. It is a two position reverse unit.

You should get one.


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## gunrunnerjohn

He can have mine, I think I have one in the parts box.


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## tjcruiser

Interesting. Thanks, T. I've never fiddled with one ... just Lionel locos on my end ... no Marx.

John, if you're game, I'd be happy to have one to play with ... mostly for learning fun, rather than anything else. If you really want to say bye-bye to yours, I'll happily reimburse postage. I can PM you address info.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'll check and see if I still have it, pretty sure I saw it while looking for some other stuff.


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## T-Man

Ok this explains the mysterious v The coil is connected to a wedge. One side is conected in the middle the other is connected on each side of the first. So a A1 B conection power flows one way. The at a switch to B A2.The power is reverse through the wire coils, causing the engine to move in the opposite direction.


Note
A1 connects to purple and B connects to brown,
The other is B connects to purple and A2 connects to brown.
The swiggle line is the motor field coil.


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## tjcruiser

Ohhhh! Clever. So B is always part of the path, but direction through B changes.

OK .. in concept I get it. But I'm keen to receive John's e-unit present and try my hands fiddling with the thing directly.

Thanks, T ... this is quite helpful!

TJ


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## T-Man

The v is on the wedge so A1 and A2 are conected to A the same wire. I will sdo another thread with pics.


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## gunrunnerjohn

tjcruiser said:


> OK .. in concept I get it. But I'm keen to receive John's e-unit present and try my hands fiddling with the thing directly.


The check... er E-Unit is in the mail.


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## T-Man

Go! TJ!:thumbsup:


The coil on this one is wired directly to the bulb socket. There is no board here. SOme of the boards have a switch to turn the reverse unit off. This one is on all the time. To the left the coil is soldered to a tab.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think the one that I sent TJ has the switch, I'm trying to remember now.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, John ... I'm out of town for a couple of more days ... looking forward to the goodie when I get back!

TJ


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## T-Man

I got a lead on some shells number 400. They are in my LHS garbage can, errrr,,, 50% off box. It's a joke with Ed the great train scrounger. Knowing John, he probably gave you enough to make 5 or more.


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## fleickly

T-man,
Your post is of great help. You are like a novelist getting your readers ready for the next installment. You ended the story with plans to make a wiring diagram. Have you created that? My pre-war Marx 999 is running, I am working on the E- unit. I have it all apart am I am at a point of re-wiring. The E unit is a plastic rocker with copper plates on the sides. Can you help me with where all these disconnected wires go?
Thanks in advance,


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## Big Ed

fleickly said:


> T-man,
> Your post is of great help. You are like a novelist getting your readers ready for the next installment. You ended the story with plans to make a wiring diagram. Have you created that? My pre-war Marx 999 is running, I am working on the E- unit. I have it all apart am I am at a point of re-wiring. The E unit is a plastic rocker with copper plates on the sides. Can you help me with where all these disconnected wires go?
> Thanks in advance,



He did post this in this thread, does that help?
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=177763&postcount=45


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## fleickly

Thanks for the lead.
I am about 350 miles away from my e-unit (wedding in Cleveland). What confuses me is whether these are hard wired to the contacts on the rocker (would be awkward) or do the solenoid wires connect to the copper contact plates? It also looks like one side of the solenoid coil has two connections to one side. I think I have the 'finger' connections - the solenoid connections are puzzling. I get back home tomorrow and will compare the diagram with the parts are loose connections that I have. The by pass and the cleaning has helped get the motor to run nicely- the 2year old grandson and I are excited!
Thanks yet again.


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## Big Ed

fleickly said:


> Thanks for the lead.
> I am about 350 miles away from my e-unit (wedding in Cleveland). What confuses me is whether these are hard wired to the contacts on the rocker (would be awkward) or do the solenoid wires connect to the copper contact plates? It also looks like one side of the solenoid coil has two connections to one side. I think I have the 'finger' connections - the solenoid connections are puzzling. I get back home tomorrow and will compare the diagram with the parts are loose connections that I have. The by pass and the cleaning has helped get the motor to run nicely- the 2year old grandson and I are excited!
> Thanks yet again.


Well you should have brought it with you along with the soldering gun. 
Maybe someone at one time swapped the e unit?
Wait till the T man comes on he should be able to tell/help you.

I figured that maybe you didn't see the diagram he posted as sometimes the T man adds to his posts later on. I learned to let his post sit for a while till he gets done adding . 
I used to ask questions while he was still posting as he posts but then adds to it, I learned to wait at least an hour on a new post from the T man to let him finish typing it and adding pictures.


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## T-Man

The motor coil is attached to each side of the rocker. 

The center rail is attached to the socket, and the forward finger and the reverse coil.

The other side of the reverse coil is attached to ground, the frame some by way of a lever.

The back finger also connects to the upper brush. Then the current passed through the armature to the other brush and then the frame, the ground.

Eo the left is a small black wire to the coil of the reverse unit.



You see the brush wire connected to back of the reverse unit with a coil field wire. Two wire connection there.


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