# Knuckle head!



## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

As I've stated before on this forum, I've recently returned to the hobby after nearly 30 years! As a result, all of my rolling stock still has rapido couplers. But I'm going to start getting some newer stock. So my question is, what knucle couplers work best together, And which ones don't play as well together? I already know kato and micro trains can be a bit fussy. What other combos are tricky, and which ones harmonize? Let's hear what y'all think.


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

Well if money is no object use all micro train, that way you don’t have go thru the woes of working together. If your not a rivet counter and want to spare the cost use 1 micro train truck assembly on 1 end and leave the rapido on the other and consist like that. Depending on how much rolling stock you have and about 60.00$ for a 10 pack package it’ll add up very quickly.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I agree.
MTL (Micro Train) are the best. I have replaced almost all of my old Rapido trucks with MTL, but it does cost a bit... About $10 per car, but that's less than a completely new piece of rolling stock.

I have no real issues with using a Kato locomotive with MTL on the rolling stock. Sometimes it takes a couple tries to get them connected, but usually, they play well together, at least for me. Now... I don't do any magnetic uncoupling, so I can't speak for how well the 2 brands play together in that scenario. I use a toothpick to uncouple, as I don't do it that often.


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## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

Thanks, I'm already planning on the mixed coupler hack (for now at least ), that way I'll have a few hybrid cars that can meld my rapido and newer cars together. It might sound counter-intuitive these days, but I think I'd like to keep some of my vintage stuff vintage. I actually like my old stuff, couplers and all!


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

I was in the same boat and swapped all my Rapido coupler a few years ago for MTL's complete trucks and couplers.
I believe you have to buy Battendorf style MTL couplers for modern rolling stock.
Hooking Kato's and MTL's has its moments but haven't looked back.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

GTW son said:


> I believe you have to buy Battendorf style MTL couplers for modern rolling stock.


Actually, Any style (Arch Bar, Bettendorf, roller bearing, etc.) will all work. There are only cosmetic differences between them. But MTL does have "short" "medium" and "long" coupler versions of their trucks... the difference being the length of the box the coupler is in. Most rolling stock uses short length couplers. Some use medium, and very few use long. This too, is largely about aesthetics, as you can put medium or long length couplers on a car that would normally take a short one, but they don't look right, and could inadvertantly let go of the next car when going around a corner or when changing incline. OTOH, if a car _needs_ a medium or long coupler, a short won't work because the couple won't stick out beyond the car far enough to grab the coupler on the next car.

I prefer the looks of a Bettendorf style over the roller bearing style. It also seems easier to remove/replace wheels on Bettendorf, but that may just be my perception...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Don’t forget, the types of trucks are car type and year specific…bettendorfs were on cars from the 50’s to the 80’s, and usually smaller size cars under 70 ton capacity…..roller bearing trucks are more recent, and are used on bigger, heavier cars…..100 ton grain hoppers and the like….

Then there’s wheel size…..33” wheels were on smaller lighter cars, and 36” wheels are on the heavy cars, as well as passenger cars….don’t know that there’s much difference in N scale though….


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Passenger car trucks are different from freight trucks. Passenger trucks were made for higher speeds. If you come across a freight car with passenger trucks it was an "Express Car" meant to carry perishable or valuable cargoes as part of a passenger train.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Oomowmow said:


> Thanks, I'm already planning on the mixed coupler hack (for now at least ), that way I'll have a few hybrid cars that can meld my rapido and newer cars together. It might sound counter-intuitive these days, but I think I'd like to keep some of my vintage stuff vintage. I actually like my old stuff, couplers and all!


While I agree that Micro-Trains couplers are the best, you might just use whatever brand of knuckle couplers come on any new cars. If they have problems staying coupled, then replace them with Micro-Trains couplers.
With a transition car or two, you can still keep using Rapido couplers, if you like. There are other considerations, like tight curves, & where the couplers are mounted. The file below has more info on this.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I have found that if I wanted to replace Rapido or Kato couplers I had to do a truck replacement, because neither my hand dexterity nor my close up vision would let me replace couplers with MTL couplers. Replacing the trucks was much easier and even possible. I still have freight cars with Rapido or Kato couplers, and I just use cars with Kato and Micro Trains, one on each end, or Rapido and Micro Trains, one on each end. I don't see spending the money for replacing a lot of trucks with Micro Trains trucks when U maybe put freight cars on the tracks once a year or so. However there is no question that Micro trains are the best. 

For rhe passenger cars I just left the Kato couplers on the Kato cars and put Kato couplers on the Atlas and Con-Cor cars as well. Almost all my passenger locos are Kato.and, when the Kato couplers break, it's easy to replace the couplers from couplers in the Kato packages. The couplers slip right in and you push they over to the left. I do have several MTL couplers that have broken, so stuff can happen to them too, just fairly rarely. I have that any of these knuckle couplers in N scale are delicate. I think it's the pushing the cars together that sometimes breaks them.


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## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

Thanks for the info, it's good to be aware of all the variables!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

pmcgurin said:


> I don't see spending the money for replacing a lot of trucks with Micro Trains trucks when U maybe put freight cars on the tracks once a year or so


That may work for the occasional model railroader, but for those of us who have freight cars on the layout that never leave the tracks, well….


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Actually I converted all the freight cars I ever use to MTL about 15 to 20 years ago, mostly CN grain cars and CN box cars. Sometimes I used the others when kids were around. Would I do it again? No idea, even if MTL is best. If freight cars all you use, sure, convert if you can afford it. It seems MTL cost more now than in the 1990s and early 2000s. I am a bit bothered by the MTL couplers that broke, but I think these are small delicate parts and I have tried to be more careful coupling and uncoupling. I think someone new should feel their way through this and they will likely convert to MTL over time. It is true that MTL coupled cars tend to stay coupled and not uncouple as you run them. Using Rapido or Kato couplers are mostly cost compromises. I have a lot of rolling stock, and some of it I just left left alone.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It seems everything cost more now than it did in the 1990’s and early 2000’s….like it or not, that’s the way of the world….


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Yes, most all this stuff has doubled in cost, due to inflation.


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