# Designing for Operations



## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

I really want my next layout to be capable of semi-prototypical operations for 1-2 operators. As such I'm trying to gather or create track arrangements that actually work for the industries they serve to be later selected and possibly combined into a layout. So no dead end spurs with a loading facility at the very end for example. I'm looking for input on how to minimize trackage but still fully serve these industries, my previous attempts to draw these result in either way to many turnouts, extraneous trackage, or something that doesn't really work.

I think having one medium sized (16 cars) industry and maybe a few small (two or three car) industries is more appealing to me as it gives the layout more room the "breathe". It also lets you model them in a way that can do them justice. Previous attempts to design large industries into my space such as container ports or grain terminals resulted less than realistic trackage. Some industries just don't do selective compression well. North American railroads are not nearly as cramped for space as European ones so stuff takes up a lot of space. I have yet to find a single slip switch or double crossover (with a diamond) in my prototype! Must be very uncommon.

I'm probably going to be posting a few photos or video from existing layouts moving forward so I'll do my best to give credit where it is due and certainly not post anything that isn't readily available free on the internet. Google Images is a fantastic tool if you know what to search for.

Let's start with a low volume grain elevator, maybe specialty crops.

This is the great Pelle Søeborg's layout from 2017, also featured in his book _Building a Sectional Layout._ I'm about 1/2 way through and it was well worth the $22 even half read.

Here's a great video of the layout. (1) Saving the Daneburg Subdivision - Episode 6 | TrainLife.com - YouTube










This is a simplified track plan of the area, I've removed the curves for simplicity.









*How would one switch this?* If you break the train into thirds you can rotate them into the filling spot without fouling the main. Four spots, each as long as a third of the train, with the two outside ones having additional length for a locomotive. If you keep the cuts short like 3-5 cars it could be switched with a loader or large tractor.

What I've labeled the bad order track is probably there so you can do this procedure either direction since the filling point is offset. It's a horrible place for a bad order car or switcher storage as its extremely difficult to access with any cars at the industry.

I imagine this arrangement could be used for other medium sized industries that load/unload the same way: wood pellets, wood chips, cement, plastic pellets, etc.


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## Homeless by Choice (Apr 15, 2016)

Good thread. Please keep sharing your thoughts and findings. Hopefully it will lead to some ideas that I will use as I expand my layout.

LeRoy


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

For a bulk-transfer operating like a grain elevator, you locate the loading chute or unloading pit in the center, when the local delivers the cars, they're placed on one side, the industry moves the cars past the [un]loader and to the other side. Since each car is [un]loaded one by one there has to be enough track room to move them all past the loader (or at least to spot the first car under the loading chute, then pull them all by until the last one is spotted under it).

The spur can be dead-ended, it just means the train has to switch it from a particular direction.

The grain elevator at the harbour in my city has a pair of double ended tracks in its facility, and is itself at the end of a mile or so long spur. The local job from the yard pushes the cars for the elevator all the way down the spur from the yard.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Thelic said:


> What I've labeled the bad order track is probably there so you can do this procedure either direction since the filling point is offset. It's a horrible place for a bad order car or switcher storage as its extremely difficult to access with any cars at the industry.


Actually it'd be a decent place for a industry switcher, as it's out of the way for the UP train to come by and deliver/pick up the cars.

The industry switcher is just moving cars one-by-one (I mean, they may actually pull a longer string, but only one is actually under the loading silo at once) and shuffling them around to be loaded. They can use both the loading track and the longer siding to run-around and shuffle cars.

The whole point of an industry switcher is to move the cars at the industry around, so don't consider that a blocker...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

One technique that I have seen is where you have a big industry with many tracks, move most of the industry AND their tracks to the backdrop, so that you're modeling a thin sliver of structure and perhaps 2-3 of 6 or more tracks.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Thelic said:


> So no dead end spurs with a loading facility at the very end for example.


Note also, that dead-end spurs are actually very common. And loading facility at the end or not, it all really depends on what type of loading/industry it is.

Something like a grain elevator needs to be loaded in the center of a track so cars can be moved past the loading point, as discussed above. If there's only a single loading point, there's not much point in making the track 8 cars long and sticking the loader at the end, where only one car could possibly ever be serviced.

Something like a warehouse that loads boxcars will simply line each car directly up against a door or loading dock.

Tank car racks would similarly have specific loading spots.

If you're loading vehicles on flatcars you might absolutely be loading them at the very end of a track via an end ramp.

Some industries that handle bulk materials like gravel pits or scrap yards can just cram a track full of cars if the loading is done with something like a front-end loader or any other type of wheeled or tracked equipment. Same for logs, telephone poles, lumber, steel pipe/beams, etc.. Or basically anything that can be handled with any sort of portable equipment for direct rail-truck transfer (including grain on much smaller scales than the large elevator example; there are portable grain augers that can unload from a hopper directly to trucks). All you need is open space alongside the track to operate vehicular equipment. Just one side is fine for many things, both sides to unload lumber from a center-beam flatcar.


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

*cv_acr,*

Good information. I guess I was referring to trying to avoid this type of situation.










The closest elevator can't load more than cut of a single car, and likely it can't even load that car fully. I'm aware of other styles of loading/unloading facilities. I'm just trying to get this one nailed down before moving to the rest. If I can get an approximate length required for properly switching an industry I can start piecing them together without overloading my layout.

For my example would you get a block of 15 cars dropped off and shuffle as I suggested is possible? As drawn it's possible to fill all the cars in three cuts of five, but requires some additional coupling and pulling/shoving. For modeling purposes its infeasible for me to just increase the length of the siding to make things brain dead simple. In N scale the track diagram I have drawn for 15 cars already takes up a length of 115". I also don't want to have extraneous turnouts as like the prototype I don't like the extra cost of installation or maintenance that goes with them. Every turnout should have a purpose and turnouts should be combined where possible.










The case where storing the switcher on the stub end becomes a problem is it requires the local to cut the train into all the pieces rather than drop all 15 on the siding in a single cut. This results in fouling the switch that would release the switcher from the stub end. It also puts the switcher in a position where it can't get to the end of the siding, though I suppose this isn't necessary to do the work. Hmm actually yes, I see that this works so long as the right side crossover is left clear. If the stub end was moved to the end of the siding rather than the loading track it would always have its escape available and still requires the same number of turnouts, it could also work from the end of the cuts rather than between two.

To what extent is a loading facilities trackage optimized? The above is optimized to take exactly 15 cars, if you tried 16 it would start interfering at clearance points. Is it common to have extraneous trackage? I don't live near any of these types of industry so I don't get to see them operate, really only see them run through town as unit trains. I see a few local industries, but they are stub ended tracks like you suggest with a wheel loader filling gondolas with rock all down the track or fuel bulk plants that take tank cars in specific spots as you describe.

An alternative is to have an industry contain enough track for both a loaded and unloaded train, this to me seems wasteful of real-estate, money, and time. That second main can be used briefly to swap loaded and unloaded trains, especially with the siding being double ended.

*CTValleyRR*

Good tip, I have seen wall mounted industries, but I haven't considered the trick with moving the tracks before.


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

cv_acr said:


> Some industries that handle bulk materials like gravel pits or scrap yards can just cram a track full of cars if the loading is done with something like a front-end loader or any other type of wheeled or tracked equipment. Same for logs, telephone poles, lumber, steel pipe/beams, etc.. Or basically anything that can be handled with any sort of portable equipment for direct rail-truck transfer (including grain on much smaller scales than the large elevator example; there are portable grain augers that can unload from a hopper directly to trucks). All you need is open space alongside the track to operate vehicular equipment. Just one side is fine for many things, both sides to unload lumber from a center-beam flatcar.


Ah yes, I had forgotten these exist. And of course they are bidirectional, you could unload a truck into a train car as well...certainly opens some possibilities up, especially for small industries. Now where to find a model of one...

Edit: Aha! N scale 1/160 Conveyor Unloader (Transloader) (V8RVCBK7L) by baztrains (shapeways.com)


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