# Looking for help on a Huge track build



## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I finally convinced my wife to let me build my childhood dream track, now I need to figure how the heck to do it. Elevated track running around a 13 1/2 x 22 room, with a 6 1/2 open span doorway. I have a Lionel 6-11972 Alaska Railroad set, spousal permission and a 33 year old dream. I want to build it, get it working, then change out transformer, and eventually swap out the GP7 (which I think is ugly IMHO) for a couple SD40-2 or GP38 units. Anyone have any ideas to help get things started?


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Best bet is to draw up the basic dimensions of your room to scale to give yourself an idea of what will work. While it's not exact, you can make some very accurate track plans with simple use of a compass and a ruler.

1) Determine minimum radius you want - the larger the better from an operational and visual standpoint
2) Determine how you want to use the RR - operations or just running trains
3) Determine the elements you want - do you want many industries and a yard? or do you want big mountain scenery or maybe the plains? It all depends on what you're looking for.

And 13x22? I thought you said HUGE  just kidding - that's a real nice size area to work with, but certainly manageable


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

It will be a simple loop around our living room, about a foot or so from the ceiling, so there really won't be any space for scenery, or anything like that, I just need to figure out how to hang track from the wall, and how to span the 6 1/2 foot opening between the living room and the foyer. I have a closet that will house the transformer, and possibly a track connected to the main line for storing stock not on line. Biggest priority is making it look good, cause it will be out for everyone to see, so no simple screwing a 2x4 to the wall to hold track.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Do a quick search on "ceiling train" and you should find some great ideas on here.

Most just set the level above the height of the door to avoid issues at door openings on a ceiling layout.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I wish it was that simple, but it is an open span, no door frame to build off of.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

What is your head clearance? Sounds like you just need a big bridge to span the door opening.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

It is a big bridge. It is full 8 foot ceiling in that span, no door frame or anything. I want to be able to eventually run 2 nice locos, a bunch of stock (20 cars doesn't seem unreasonable for the loop. I have looked into ceiling kits, I like the shelf style, looks a bit easier to build, I just don't know how to build the corners.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

After the living room is done, I get to build another layout in my basement, and that one truly can be huge, 2 rooms 16x45, just have to allow for access to the utilities in 1 room, and the kids tv area. That one is a year or so down the road, and that one I will be needing some damaged cars, I want to recreate the home shop I worked at. Need to find cars with realistic derail damage.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

What about, for the open doorway, hanging something from the ceiling, you could make it look like a bridge with gutters(sp), or wires. This would probably need to be secured into a floor joist. That might look pretty cool but it sounds like some work! It would probably need to be braced with some sort of truss system to prevent swaying. Just a thought.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I am going to have to check into that. I am looking into the ceilingtrack system right now, getting a price quote from them, and also looked at a custom built shelf system using a board with 2 ribs attached underneath to span the gap. Are railings and wires necessary? I am not a huge fan of wires and railings blocking access and views, but I also have 4 kids, 12,10,8,&6


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I've also seen braces which go into the ceiling as well to span a large gap.

I went to yahoo and searched under "O scale ceiling train" and got tons of images for ideas....


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I went there after you suggested, I had been looking for a while for proper terminology, turns out ceiling train worked best. Big train is for living room, I am thinking about HO for my basement layout, since O and O27 are so expensive. I got the lionel set from a goodwill for $100. Shelf or ceiling system I really want to keep under a grand, but I won't hold my breath. HO gauge was a bit expensive, N was a bit worse, but 3rail.....my poor wallet is going to hate me.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I would love to run a train through a 150 gal salt tank, but darn budget can only be streched so far before my wife breaks.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

First figure out what type of track your going to buy.
There are different kinds you know?
O/27
O
fast track
atlas track
gargraves
ross

Are a few, if you are going to use tube track, I suggest O, over O/27.
O is a bit taller the O/27, and the tube is beefier then O/27.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I have an O27 for starters, but I know they will work on O gauge. I was leaning towards O, simply because I will eventually inherit my grandfathers post war lionel train set, and I wouldn't mind taking his old trains for the occasional spin around the track, and I would love to get a Big Boy loco one of these days, possibly a emd DDA40X to go with the 250 watt lionel ZW transformer that goes with his set. Plus with the ammount of track I have to buy, I don't think the 16 pieces I have are really going to matter. I figure 10-12 curves, 1 switch, and about 70 foot of track, might as well stick with the classic style track, after all the classic 3 rail has been around 100 years and they still make it, people still use it, so it must be pretty good.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I bet it wouldn't be THAT hard to heat up and bend some lexan into a tunnel portal for that fish tank. (poke poke) I'm a bad influence 

If I were to build something like this, I'd make it out of steel and make the base & hangers myself. Welding isn't difficult and with a little creativity you could make the whole thing out of strips 1" wide or so. You don't need 100% support for the track, just enough that it all stays together.

I like the look of this wooden one for steamers,










but think this steel one looks nice and clean. If painted strategically, it could even accent the decorations of the room nicely.










Here's a link with some info on the steel one:

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/4104666422454566


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

If you do you will need the large O/72 curves to run it.
I think it will be kind of hard to work the O/72 curves into the ceiling shelf.
They make a more gradual curve so you take up more space with them.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Big ed, in my opinion is right. O track is superior to 027 in my mind. And it is sturdier. Try creigslist or ebay for track, sometimes you can pick some up cheap. I don't know if you need railings around the whole track. I was thinking just over the open doorway, like a long suspension bridge, some wire is very thin so that it wouldn't affect the Veiw. This is mostly speculation on my part though. When you get salt tank let me know, I'd like to see that!


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I was looking at the wood kit. If I still had access to metal and a welder it wouldn't be a question, aluminum hanging system, but I left the Railyard 6 years ago. As for the tank, the wife put her foot down hard on that. I have to finish my winter project boat deck replacement, and get the track hung in the living room first, then I can make the investment in a salt tank downstairs. I was thinking N gauge for that one, I could do a real impressive N layout with the space I have, and if I do the inclines right, I might be able to put 3 or 4 tubes in, but that is a ways down the road.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

You can pick up a welder for less than $500 (probably more like $350-400) that could do that job for you. Not sure how much those premade kits cost, but I'm a sucker for making something myself. If I then have a very useful tool to use on other projects in the future while saving money on a project (or even spending the same) I feel I'm ahead of the game.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I have looked into my own welder for quite a while, but right now it isn't too practical. I spent over 9 years welding, and some hobby gunsmithing. The wood set rough estimate of $750, plus track, waiting till next weekend when I get home for a formal quote.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I just had a stroke of genius, I need to extend the track to the kitchen, and get some auto dump gondolas, I could have my wife put a beer and a sandwich on the train, and have it delivered to the couch.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's some inspiration.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

Looks like fun, I am just going to have to hold off till I get the main line finished off.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Railcar79 said:


> I have looked into my own welder for quite a while, but right now it isn't too practical. I spent over 9 years welding, and some hobby gunsmithing. The wood set rough estimate of $750, plus track, waiting till next weekend when I get home for a formal quote.


That's less expensive than what I was thinking - nice.

Hobby gunsmithing eh???? You're in the right model train forum


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I welded in a railcar repair shop for over 9 years, m214 truck rebuilds, full wreck repair, derailments, tank cars, and a 500 car project for GE converting 14.5 PD cars to covered hoppers. Also ran our yard switchers, and the remote switcher loco. I also collect and build me a few toys that go boom from time to time, RC Trucks (Nitro Methanol powered race trucks and buggies) Fly Fishing, and boating, on top of a job that has me on the road 10 days, home for 4. Wife says I got too many hobbies, I tell her I dont have too many hobbies, we just dont have enough money. The welder I want (Pulsed Tig) is over $1200.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Railcar79 said:


> I welded in a railcar repair shop for over 9 years, m214 truck rebuilds, full wreck repair, derailments, tank cars, and a 500 car project for GE converting 14.5 PD cars to covered hoppers. Also ran our yard switchers, and the remote switcher loco. I also collect and build me a few toys that go boom from time to time, RC Trucks (Nitro Methanol powered race trucks and buggies) Fly Fishing, and boating, on top of a job that has me on the road 10 days, home for 4. Wife says I got too many hobbies, I tell her I dont have too many hobbies, we just dont have enough money. The welder I want (Pulsed Tig) is over $1200.


I'm fortunate that I have a friend with a massive shop on his property (over 12,000 sq ft) with just about all the tools I could need - MIG/TIG, Plasma cutter, mill, etc. However for most of my work my little 110/220 Lincoln MIG gets the job done just fine.

Wives always think we have too many hobbies as opposed to them having too few.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

Lucky SOB.... I am taking pics and sending in for a bid from Ceiling trains. Depending on their quote will decide if I go suspended or If I build my own shelf system. I am definately going O gauge, but I am back on the fence about track now. I saw some atlas at the hobby shop yesterday, and I do like the scale look of the track. Decisions Decisions..... Also finding it difficult to find stock under $20 a pop. I am going to have to check back with a hobby shop I used to go to 15 years or so ago, if it is still open, and see if they still got cheap stock to fill my rails. Only having 1 engine, and having to shell out dough to build track, I am going to have to look for cheap light stock. 

On another note, Anyone know If My Loco can accept different sound boards? I Hate the horn it has.kit 6-11865 this is a clip of the test run, and the horn sounds absolutely terrible.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200784458884830&set=vb.1563660868&type=3


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Unfortunately I'm not an O-gauge guy so not sure. I'd be willing to bet just about anything can be done if you want to though. I'm sure one of the O-guys will chime in. 

Keep in mind that with a ceiling train you probably won't really see the track, so use whatever works best vs what looks best.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Truthfully, I'd probably recommend plain old tubular track. As Scott says, you won't see the track, so spending the money on the scale look of Atlas track seems like a waste. You can pick up tubular track for far less than any of the other track systems, tons of it available.


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

RailCar79, it seems running a train on a shelf 1' down from a 8' ceiling without scenery and just a big loop is not very interesting to me, not interesting at all, will this truly be interesting to you after a year?

Depending on the look you are going for, there are many ways to mount the shelf, if you want inconspicuous, then wood boards painted to match the wall colors would be best. Use normal 'L' shelf brackets upside-down on the top of the shelf to hang the shelf.

I would suggest building a box beam from 1/4" Luan plywood to span your room opening. A 3" x 3" x 6.5' box would easily support a Lionel train that length. Be sure to use stiffener blocks (3/4" x 3/4" x 3") every 6"-8" on all four inside corners. I have built one 2.5" x 2.5" x 9' to support a HO train with no measurable deflection. Paint it to match the ceiling and it will appear the train floats across the opening.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

I really don't see any way to add scenery to the train around the living room, I will either be using suspended or shelf, depending on final price, and given that it is a main room in the house, I don't see where any scenery would work, since you would have to have scenery placed low enough to see it, and to put it that low, it would be blocking doorways, Windows, and even furniture. I will have a more interesting layout in a dedicated space in a different room. Perhaps I am wrong about this, If there is something I am overlooking, Please do share. I will put up photos of the room I am putting this track in next weekend when I am home, maybe if you could see the space you would be able to point out something I am missing.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

railcar,
i see u haven't posted for a while. if u are still going with the shelf layout, add scenery with a photo or painted backdrop. countryside, sky,hillsand sky, etc.
u could put it on a thin sheet; ie plywood, paneling strips, etc. this way u could put it up temp and not mess up ur walls.
u can also add building fronts down a wall, or full building or a diarama in a corner. wider the radius turn the more room.
look across ur room at the far wall. u can see alot up there above a 6" shelf.
there's a pizza shop near me has g scale on ceiling shelf layout with 9' ceiling. has backdrops, truss bridges, lots of scenery. looks good.


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## Railcar79 (Apr 2, 2013)

Been a while, been busy building my 72 gallon bowfront Reef aquarium, and running a project for work in Iowa. After the cost of my reef tank ($1350 and counting) the train was put on the back burner till next year (after taxes). the scenery is probably not going to happen, not much to see that high up that wouldnt interfeer with the wifes decorations in the living room. if I dont do the shelf I will probablu just order a ceiling train kit and go prefab.


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