# The Right Sound



## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

I know very little about DCC and would like to be well eduicated before I make the jump. What companies/ lines makes the great sounds?

Do different loco require different sounds. Ex. GP38 uses xyz chip and F7 use xyz. so on and so forth.

Also does the loco need a sound chip or just a speeker?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Goodness me. You are going to get a good rundown
on quality locomotive sound decoders from our members.

I'll just give you a quick and dirty run down on what DCC is
all about. With it, each loco has a decoder with a specific
address such as the road number on the loco. The DCC
controller will have a number of push buttons that
let you 'address' each loco. Each loco will respond only
when it has been addressed. The track is live with around 14 or
so volts of modified AC at all times, thus your lights don't
dim or go off. The decoders receive the digital information
from the controller through the rails. The decoder as a
memory function so that with one controller you can start
train A going around the layout. It will continue until
you address it again and stop it. You can then punch up
train B, and C, and so on and tell them what you want to
do. 

The wiring is simple. Unless you have a very large layout
and have a need to set up the power in blocks, you simply
run a buss from the controller to several points around
the layout, generally around 4 to 6 feet apart. That will
assure a continuous quality electrical current for the
locos. That's it. You can even have a WYE or REVERSE
LOOP[ to turn trains around to go the other way. There are
devices that will make this possible without shorting out,
and it's totally automatic.

If you have an existing DC layout with the usual number of
blocks with DPDT switches to determine which power pack
will power which track, all you do is set all of the switches
to the same power pack, removed the power pack, and connect your
DCC controller to the input to those switches. You
are now DCC. But keep your DC locomotives off the AC track.
It will burn out the motors unless a decoder is installed

Don


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

If you get a sound equipped loco it will have the proper sounds for whatever engine (Prime mover) is in the loco. Yes there are different sound decoders for each type loco and what ever engine it has.

If adding sound to a loco the different manufactures offer a verity of engine types and sizes, EMD, GE, Alco, etc.

You need a sound decoder and a speaker. 

Tsunami makes great sound decoders. That's the only one I have that you could install yourself. MTH, Walthers, BLI and Athearn all have good factory installed sound. 
Bachman is very limited and I don't know about Atlas. 

This is for diesels, only have one steamer BLI 4-6-2 Pacific and it has great sound. 

 Be warned Sound Cost Money.  but it is very nice to have.

Magic

Magic


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks for the help guys. I am well aware of cost. I was snooping on Model Train Stuff and saw some prices. 

In your own opinion would it be more wise to by locomotives with sound already factory eqquiped vs getting a DDC ready or onboard and adding the sound?


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## Torsion (Dec 25, 2013)

Yes, then you wont have to worry about mounting the speaker and otherwise taking it apart to fiddle with.


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## feldon30 (Dec 30, 2012)

SBRacing said:


> I know very little about DCC and would like to be well eduicated before I make the jump. What companies/ lines makes the great sounds?
> 
> Do different loco require different sounds. Ex. GP38 uses xyz chip and F7 use xyz. so on and so forth.
> 
> Also does the loco need a sound chip or just a speeker?


Depending on the company, you have a DCC decoder and add a sound decoder and a speaker, so 3 components.

*The Big Players*

Soundtraxx *Tsunami *are pre-programmed with a specific engine sound. This is the sound of the actual diesel or steam engine. There are some variations on bells and whistles and the such, but the base sound is specific. You have to buy the exact one you want and they tend to do manufacturing runs very sporadically.

*QSI *are programmable sound chips with sufficient memory to load whatever engine, bells, etc. you want. You need a special power booster for your programming track to provide sufficient voltage to program sound chips. It takes up to an hour to write all the sounds to a QSI chip if you are doing a clear and rewrite. Remember DCC communicates at 9600 baud! Talk about slow. QSI had a lengthy period where they stopped producing their old chips while they did engineering work on their new chip.

*TCS *is a newcomer to sound but has been making reliable multi-function non-sound decoders for years. Their _Wowsound Steam_ sounds incredible. I haven't heard their _Diesel _yet, but they might be a significant challenger. I wonder if Soundtraxx and QSI hadn't had such chronic inventory problems over the last few years if TCS would have even tried to compete in this space. For a while, Soundtraxx and QSI were the best sound decoders money couldn't buy.

*Loksound *and *Digitrax* sound decoders are cheaper alternatives and not well regarded, but then again they don't cost $100+.

Yes, for the TCS, QSI, or Soundtraxx, you're talking *$100 and that's WITHOUT 1 or 2 speakers you must install* inside the shell some place. For smaller engines particularly switchers, it's necessary to mill (remove) some of the pot metal to make room for the speaker. In a steam engine, the speaker is often placed in the tender.

Of course your mileage may vary. There are a lot of sound chip / decoder installers out there who have earned a good reputation and will do the install at a reasonable cost. If you try it on your own, you'll have to do your homework, buy the right parts, and it might be a real bear to get things to fit. Experience is the thing you get right after you need it.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

SBRacing said:


> In your own opinion would it be more wise to by locomotives with sound already factory eqquiped vs getting a DDC ready or onboard and adding the sound?


I like to do the conversions myself as it gives a bit of satisfaction and I think that's what the hobby is about. Plus in many cases the sound decoder installed by the manufacturer may be labelled as a Tsunami or whatever but it's often a 'cut down' version with fewer features. If you convert a relatively recent model it's usually very straightforward with the board just clipping in. The biggest problem is mostly finding room for the speaker but they available in very small sizes now. An Athearn I did recently had a weight which just screwed in and this when removed made room for a good size speaker enclosure. Give it a go ! Most makers offer a 'goof proof' warranty on their decoders.


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## feldon30 (Dec 30, 2012)

+ to what Cyclops said. If you run out and get an Athearn Genesis with sound, chances are it's a QSI with half the features ripped out.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

So let me recap in a nut shell. For best sound buy a DCC Ready/Equipped loco and add the sound yourself. And most Sound equipped locos have a lot of features removed. Tsunami is a really good sound. QSI is a good one as well.

I assume the encoder will be labeled what loco sounds it makes?

"Goof Proof" I'm sure I could f*** up a steel anvil.

Thanks guys for the tip. You will more than likely be hearing more dumb questions from me in the future when I start this project.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

*Speakers*

So with the sound chip you need a speaker. Who makes good speakers or do the chips come with there own speakers?


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

What's wrong with the Digitrax sound decoders? I thought you could program different sounds into them so the same decoder could be installed in various Loco's with a different sound profile specified to the Loco.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

SBRacing said:


> So with the sound chip you need a speaker. Who makes good speakers or do the chips come with there own speakers?


There's a wide selection of speakers available. QSI make a good range, as far as I can make out they're much of a muchness. Try to get the biggest one you can and use it with an enclose for the best sound. If they don't come with one you can make one from plastic card or even utilise bottle tops or liquid medicine measures. I've even resorted to pulling small speakers out of toys.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> What's wrong with the Digitrax sound decoders? I thought you could program different sounds into them so the same decoder could be installed in various Loco's with a different sound profile specified to the Loco.


You can. You use their FX decoder and PR3 programmer interface (about $90), hook your PC up the PR3, download the sound you want from the Digitrax sound library and install it.


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## feldon30 (Dec 30, 2012)

SBRacing said:


> So let me recap in a nut shell. For best sound buy a DCC Ready/Equipped loco and add the sound yourself. And most Sound equipped locos have a lot of features removed. Tsunami is a really good sound. QSI is a good one as well.
> 
> I assume the encoder will be labeled what loco sounds it makes?


For Soundtraxx Tsunami you are buying a chip based on the motive power. 

For instance, the EMD 567 engine was used in the F9, GP9, SD9, E9, SW600, SW900, and SW1200 locomotives. One chip is used for all of those and you cannot change the sounds on the chip. When you program it, you're changing which bells/whistles/etc. it uses to match what is appropriate for your locomotive.

In contrast, there are just a few QSI chips and you completely wipe and reload all the sounds for exactly what you need. This provides an extreme amount of customization which is helpful if you are trying to accurately recreate a unique, rare, unpopular road name and engine for which a "sound package" does not exist. You can pick and choose which sounds you want and put together your own package.

Sound in locomotives can be plug-and-play or you can spend weeks researching and programming. It's all to your level of interest!



Lemonhawk said:


> What's wrong with the Digitrax sound decoders?


There is a difference in the sound quality/fidelity of Digitrax vs. the $100 chips. Is it worth the extra dollars? Hopefully you can go to a club layout or visit someone's house or even find Youtube videos that give a fair comparison so you can decide for yourself.


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*A hobby within the hobby*

I have found as the decoders have gotten better and better and the sounds more realistic, that DCC sound has become for me a hobby within the hobby. I am partial to QSI as I believe their new Titan with the ET files sound far superior to anything else out there. They have so many user controlled adjustments to play with you will be amazed. The good thing is if you don't have the time, talent or inclination, they sound great right "out of the box". If you are a diesel fan, there are a total of 12 different lighting functions called ports. They also are stereo which works great with steam as you can direct different sounds to the front (cuff for example) and to the rear (water fill for example) and blend the other sounds in from front to back.

I also use Tsunami's in my narrow gauge stuff and I have a TWC steam which I have yet to install.

I would take the prior poster's advice and start with RTR sound equipped engine and get used to programming it and make adjustments to your liking then try an install with a plug and play drop in type before you go any further. I am in O scale so all my installs are full blown hardwired and with 12 light functions and 2 speakers it adds up to a lot of wires!!

Peter


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I would agree with Peter Herron that loco sounds have become a hobby within the hobby. There is so much tinkering you can do with them its mind boggling. In fact Soundtraxx advise against fiddling too much with things like the reverb as unless you are a sound engineer you can end up with some very odd effects! I have only used Tsunamis up until now but could be persuaded to try the QSI Titan, thank you Peter. The Soundraxx product is excellent IMHO. A lot of course depends on the speaker. This week I installed one of the tiny 'sugar cube' speakers in a Baldwin diesel due to lack of space and the output is very impressive, better than a larger oval speaker I put in another engine.

PS. Welcome to the forum Peter.


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*Thanks, Cyclops........*

............I am looking forward to sharing and reading posts. I wish there was a separate forum for us minor players in 2 rail O scale but one cannot have everything.

Peter


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*sound effects with Sony Walkman head set ?*

Is it possible to use a Sony Walkman stereo head head set for speakers?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Depends how big the driver units are. I imagine they would be quite small so you wont get much output from them. Give it a try.


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*Tr1......*

I assume you are looking for small with your question. With the new "sugar cube" speakers readily available and dirt cheap, they seem a better solution than trying to reinvent the wheel. Also, Cyclops is right about output. How loud are they when you listen to them as they are sitting on a table and you are 10 feet away? Not very, right. How loud is your cell phone on speaker from that same distance? Much louder, right.

Peter


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## Mark R. (Jan 26, 2013)

feldon30 said:


> Depending on the company, you have a DCC decoder and add a sound decoder and a speaker, so 3 components.
> 
> *The Big Players*
> 
> ...


Really ? - Loksound is a cheap alternative and not well regarded ? You haven't been keeping up have you ?

Loksound decoders are currently found in the majority of factory installs today (Atlas, Bowser, Truline Trains, Rapido, Riverpoint Station, etc.). Sound synchronization in their diesels is right on (unlike Tsunami), they have the strongest horns of any sound decoder and their motor control is second to none.

Not well regarded ? - hardly. In fact, just the opposite.

Mark.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Mark R. said:


> Really ? - Loksound is a cheap alternative and not well regarded ? You haven't been keeping up have you ?
> 
> Loksound decoders are currently found in the majority of factory installs today (Atlas, Bowser, Truline Trains, Rapido, Riverpoint Station, etc.). Sound synchronization in their diesels is right on (unlike Tsunami), they have the strongest horns of any sound decoder and their motor control is second to none.
> 
> ...


There's a lot of debate over who makes the best sound decoders and I've read many threads on the subject. I think it's very much a personal thing, one person might be happy with a MRC whilst others prefer the more expensive brands. I myself can't hear much of a difference between the premium makes. The sound is just one thing to consider when choosing a unit but what about the other factors? How easy is it to programme? What are the programming options? How easy is it to install? How good is the motor control? How reliable is it? Incidentally I've read in several forums that the Loksound has a tendency to reprogram itself causing many users to abandon it. 
The fact that a particular makers decoders is factory installed is as much to do with commercial considerations rather than the excellence of the decoder itself, so it's hardly a ringing endorsement. By the way many of the factory installs you mentioned don't in fact use Loksound, nor do the bigger players like Bachmann, Athearn and Walthers. 
One thing is for sure though completion is hotting up and the decoder manufactures are out to get your bucks!


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## irishthump (Jul 1, 2013)

Mark R. said:


> Really ? - Loksound is a cheap alternative and not well regarded ? You haven't been keeping up have you ?
> 
> Loksound decoders are currently found in the majority of factory installs today (Atlas, Bowser, Truline Trains, Rapido, Riverpoint Station, etc.). Sound synchronization in their diesels is right on (unlike Tsunami), they have the strongest horns of any sound decoder and their motor control is second to none.
> 
> ...


A few manufacturers are now using Loksound in their installs. Atlas and Rapido certainly are, I'm not sure about the others you mentioned.
As for Loksound not being well regarded; this may have been the case a few years ago as US modellers are (understandably) fickle about the quality of their loco's sounds. But ESU have come on in leaps and bounds in the quality of their recordings and the design of their sound projects. (Their motor control has alway been excellent.)
I read a recent review of Loksound decoders by Bruce Petrarca in MRH an he was the first to say that Loksounds today are different animal to the ones he tried several years ago. He rated them as good as any of the top manufacturers.
IMHO, as Mark said, the sound synchronization is second to none and this is what prompted me to switch to ESU completely last year. 
Also, all of my Loksounds had perfect slow running straight from the box. That's more than I can say for my Tsunamis.


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## irishthump (Jul 1, 2013)

Here's a link to the edition of MRH fromm Dec 2014 which contains the article.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh-2014-12-dec/di_loksound-dcc


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Read the review, very interesting. I've got a lot of time for Bruce. Might be tempted to try a Loksound now. I know the horns sound is great.

This one will run and run.


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## irishthump (Jul 1, 2013)

Cycleops said:


> Read the review, very interesting. I've got a lot of time for Bruce. Might be tempted to try a Loksound now. I know the horns sound is great.
> 
> This one will run and run.


I strongly urge you to give one a try.
Sound quality aside, it's the "drivability" of these decoders that puts them ahead in my opinion.


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*I have not heard any Loksound decoders..........*

.........so I cannot comment on the quality of the sound but if it is horns and bells you want that are infinitely adjustable, see the below press release from QSI.

http://www.qsisolutions.com/#!news/c1h1k

I have the upgraded file in my CF7 and these horn and bell choices are amazing. I've said before that sound had become a hobby within a hobby but now adjusting horns, bells, the pitch, duration, tail off etc has become another hobby within a hobby (within a hobby!)

It's almost too much. I have 3 speaker in my O scale CF7, a sugar cube stuffed in the nose, a good oval just behind the cab and a large ported Railmaster toward the back in the body.

Using the stereo features I have balanced the sound from front to back as follows: Bell, all the way to the front. Horns 1/4 the way back. Prime mover about 1/2 way back. Fans, compressors and other engine bay sounds about 3/4 back and coupler clank all the way back. It really sounds great. I wish I had a way of making a video in stereo so you could hear this but I don't have the equipment.

Peter


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