# Lionel Legacy via Lionel Base 1L?



## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

Learning about Lionel's Command Control system has been my focus this past two weeks. 
As a Lionel post-war era railroader, I am now excited about wireless control of my locomotives using Command Control. Here in California, it almost seems like the entire state is being converted to control by Apple's iPad. Thus, it only makes sense that model trains should be controlled the same way: not with a clunky proprietary controller, but rather via software running on a sophisticated PDA user interface. I'm excited about Lionel's new LCS system and I have a question: will the Lionel LCS Wifi module work with a Lionel Base-1L ? Or, as I suspect, will Lionel require the purchase of the full Legacy base and controller package? If anyone can shed some light on the minimum equipment needed to implement train control via Lionel's LCS wifi system, I'd really appreciate hearing from them!


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

No matter what the interface you need they all must talk to a legacy control base. 
The 1L is a power supply that can run conventionally but it needs a Legacy base to tell it what to do if you want to operate it by remote control.
Same goes for the wi-fi module it talks to the Legacy base unit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The LCS requires the capability of the full Legacy base, and that is a basic building block for LCS. The "Legacy Lite" system is for people that want a CAB1 replacement, or an extra remote to run TMCC stuff on their Legacy layout.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*Lionel LCS = Layout Control via Wi-Fi*

Goal: I want to gain Wi-Fi control over Lionel conventional *and* older TMCC locomotives using the new 6-81325 LCS Wi-Fi Module (when available) controlled via an Apple Ipad running Lionel's free Ipad app. From the Lionel Web Site: "Each LCS installation requires exactly one 6-81499 LCS Power Supply with DB9 Cable. Then, you’ll need a Lionel Base and remote (either LEGACY 990 or the thrifty “1L” system) and/or the LCS WiFi module." When they say I'll need "... the thrifty 1L system, it seems to me they mean that I might only need a 6-37156 1L Command Base, the forthcoming Wi-Fi Module, an Ipad running the Lionel LCS app and a conventional transformer to provide constant track power. Lionel furthermore says,"using only your Lionel command base and LCS WiFi, the LCS APP can run TMCC and LEGACY locomotives and also operate wireless command-controlled switches." My post-war conventional locomotives and my two TMCC locos don't have advanced Lionel Legacy features. I just want to operate them wirelessly with a minimum of expensive equipment. Do I really need "full functionality?" Do I really need to buy the expensive Legacy #990 Command set? I'd like to see a list of the *Minimum* Lionel parts or modules I need to accomplish my goal as stated above: Wi-Fi control of my layout. Thanks in advance to Gunrunner or anyone else who might help me and others understand this system.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was unaware that the LCS would function with the BASE-1L. Since it has no database, a lot of the functionality of the LCS will certainly be absent. For the difference in price, I can't imagine someone buying the LCS components and then trying to save $100 by cheaping out on the command system.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Interesting, I cannot tell from the catalog if a Legacy command base is required or the command base functionality is built into the new LCS.

What I'm sure is you will need a power supply like the ZWL that has legacy control built in to control conventional locomotives that operate by varying the voltage up and down.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*I am cheap, but I still want control...*

The Lionel site had the price of a Cab 1L base (by itself) at around $125. Buying only this piece instead of the full Legacy set would thus save me $275. Of course I will still have to buy the Wi-Fi module either way for another $135. The Ipod app is free and I already own an Ipad. I also already have a powerful transformer. If I could make Wi-Fi layout control happen for less than $300, I'd consider that a great deal! You are right: I am cheap and you are also correct that the Legacy set is the most flexible and powerful option. I just see proprietary controllers in general as a thing of the past. The user interface (just like on many real locomotives, cars and airplanes now) should be done with software. The interface needs to be self explanatory and simple. You shouldn't need an overlay to remind you (especially those of us over 65) what the keys do. Example: Blackberry's (RIM) were the big thing until the I-Phone blew them away. Why? All those little hardware keys and buttons? Unnecessary. Anyway, thanks to all for letting me use this forum. The expertise here is extremely valuable to all of us newbies trying to understand modern train control.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The command base functionality isn't built into the LCS, at least at the Legacy meeting at York they said it wasn't. Since it was one of the architects of the system that was doing the talking, he probably knows what he's talking about.

As far as saving the money, there are bound to be operations that you'll want the controller for. 

Since the Legacy systems are being listed by several major train retailers for $299, I think you overstate your savings.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Since you own an iPhone is it really about saving money?

If you power the layout from your traditional transformer you will need a TPC to control the power for conventional locomotives. You will also need the serial adapter and a legacy base to talk to everything.

Or you could just hook up the old transformer and run everything conventionally and save enough cash to buy another iPhone.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*Legacy Yes, But No iPhone here*

Yes, I believe that getting the complete Lionel Legacy control set for $300 would be the best option. Thanks Gunrunner. Regarding the iPhone: I too find the iPhone to have very expensive ongoing costs. I have an iPad which is not a phone, just a Wi-Fi model only. Works for free at Starbucks. My wife and I each have a Verizon flip phone. Our phone plane is about 12 years old. We pay $40 per month for the two phones. (No, not $40 each, 40 for both!) I just bought her a replacement phone two days ago as the hinge on her phone broke. The cost for the new phone (off Craigslist) was $20. Works great. I've been running my Lionel trains in the conventional manner since I got my first set on Christmas 1955. However, I have to say I'm fascinated by the idea of running wireless and walk-about. Hey, you know that Neil Young lives somewhere around here (San Francisco Bay Area). I may go to his house and ask him what to do. I'd like to see his layout.  Anyway, thanks for the helpful hints and opinions. I have to go out to the garage now and try and squeeze the last bit of toothpaste out of this tube here using my bench-top vise. I get every last bit that way! Cheep Cheep Cheep, eh?


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*LCS Wifi 6-81325 with Cab-1L Base*

Update: According to pp. 7 of the Lionel LCS Wifi Manual, a Lionel 6-81325 Wifi module CAN be used with a Lionel Legacy Cab-1L Base without any loss of functionality. Please see the attached .pdf file to confirm this conclusion. The Lionel Cab-1L Controller and Cab-1L Base set sells for between $150 and $200 less than the Legacy Cab-2 set.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Many (most?) of the LCS features will only be available if you have the full Legacy base. Since the BASE1-L has no database of locomotives, switches, & accessories, it's really not a replacement for the full Legacy if you want to use LCS. You can plug the WiFi module into the BASE1-L and have limited functionality if that floats your boat.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

I got a very good buy on a Lionel Legacy "Lite" Cab-1L controller and base. With only standard TMCC locomotives running on my layout now, the single LCS module I'd like to get is the wifi module. With this connected to the Legacy Base and the control app running on my ipod, I'm interested in seeing just how much functionality I will actually have. If Lionel or someone else offers a way to upgrade TMCC locomotives to full Legacy functionality, then I would be more interested in buying the Cab-2 setup. I'll report back on how well the Cab-1L works with the LCS wifi module and the Lionel ipod / ipad app.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't hold your breath waiting for Legacy upgrades, I've asked that question directly of several folks at Lionel. They have no interest in impacting their sales by offering upgrade kits.

I don't have the iCAB application, but I use the LCS with the Legacy. A major part of the functionality of the LCS on the iPAD would be lost without the Legacy database.


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