# Lionel 1688 Loco -- Third Chances



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi guys,

I recently had a project thread that followed my restoration of a Lionel 1688 prewar streamliner loco, here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6004

I called that thread "Second Chances". Well, after wrapping up that restoration, I happened to stumble on another 1688 junker on eBay ... a nabbed it for $15. This thread will document my hopeful restoration of this latest find. Appropriately, I call this project "Third Chances" ...


Here's the loco as found, albeit with some exploratory surgery on my part ...











Several findings ... some not so good ...

1. The bad news ... do my dismay, I found that the drive wheels on the loco wouldn't turn a full revolution. Upon closer inspection, I found that the gear teeth that are cast integrally with the left-side drive wheels were brittle and had several gear teeth broken off and chewed up. Not good. Essentially, these drive wheels are "toast" ... junk. (Note that these wheels are the 12-spoke style.)

2. Fortunately, the pinion gear and the intermediate gear are both OK. Also, interestingly, the intermediate gear on this Jr motor is simply loose-slipped onto the gear stud. The stud does NOT have a head to hold the gear captive, as is the case with most of my other (1681) Jr motors.

3. The drum of the e-unit was bumped out of position. I pulled the e-unit apart, and am hoping that most of it is salvagable and funtionable. It'll need new wiring.

4. The brushplate holder is cracked, with a brush "can" loose. Interestingly, I've learned about the "evolution" of these Jr-style brushplates. Early ones had the two mount-screws located close to the brush cans, and then two "mount index position bumps" further towards the end of the plate. At some point (for some unknown reason), Lionel flip-flopped the location of the top screw/bump ... the top index bump is closest to the can, and the mount screw is towards the end. Accordingly, these brushplates are NOT directly interchangeable with early styles.

5. The rear of the loco shell in way of the step below the cab is broken off (and missing) on both sides. Jim Stillakid improvised an epoxy fix to this area on his 1688 (or 1668, perhaps) ... I'll have to take an updated look at what he did.

6. To my surprise, the Lionel Jr type motor on this 1688 mounts very differently than the one in my first 1688 project thread. On that (older) loco, the motor itself had a horizontal bracket rivetted to its rear, and that bracket screwed into the loco shell. However, on this (newer) 1688, the motor mounts to the shell via a long horizontal screw that passes through the shell and holes in the top/rear motor sideplates.


Here's a look inside this newer 1688 shell. You can see the motor mount screw towards the rear:











For comparison, here's a look at my OLDER 1688. You can see how the motor mounted to that shell with a horizontal bracket:











Also, for comparison, the shell casting on the newer 1688 is substantialy heavier / thicker than the casting on the older 1688.

More to come ...

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*My wheels are TOAST ... What to do? What to do???*

Well, the post title says it all ... my 1688 drive wheels are shot. What to do? I could order repros from a parts supplier (as I've done on other locos), but at around $35 a set, my wallet is beginning to feel the pain. After rummaging around my (ever growing) junk box (with bits of stuff left over from other restoration projects), I happened to have an almost-set of drive wheels, here the 8-spoked type rather than the 12-spoke type.

A brief background primer on Lionel drive wheels. On locos with 4 drive wheels, there are typically 4 unique wheels:

Front left ... integral gear, no drive rod crank.

Rear left ... integral gear, with drive rod crank.

Rear right ... no gear, with drive rod crank.

Front right ... no gear, no crank.​
In my junk box, I had wheels as follows:

1 front left
2 rear left
0 rear right
1 front right

As I said ... _almost_ a set !!!

Hmmm ... it hit me that a rear left wheel (with gear and crank) could be turned into a rear right wheel, if one where to grind the gear (and hub) away! So, that's exactly what I've done ...

Here's what USED TO BE two rear left wheels as shown on the right side of this photo (connected by an axle). However, on one of them, I used a Dremel cutting disc to slowly and carefully cut the integral gear and hub away ... you an see those leftover bits on the right ...










Here's my resulting "now a full set" of drive wheels ... front wheels on the left, rear wheels on the right. You can see the resulting "ground down" smooth inner face and hub of the rear-right wheel (shown on the top right of the photo).











I'm delighted with this little creative surgery. It allows me to breathe (hopefully) some new life back into the old 1688, without having to fork out another $35 for a new set of wheels!

Yippee!!!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lookin' good!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Good New / Bad News ...*

A few steps forward, and a few steps back on the 1688 redo ...

*The good news ...*

T-Man "The Epoxy Man" would be very proud of me ... The brushplate was cracked in way of the top brush can, and the e-unit's lower 2-finger fiber plate was cracked. I was able to fix both with some JB Weld epoxy. Normally, I'd consider buying replacement parts, but I figured a $15 loco doesn't deserve such grand indulgences!

With the 2-finger plate repaired, I was able to rebuild and rewire the e-unit. I had a difficult time getting the drum to seat properly ... I needed to bend the lower sideplates of the e-unit a bit to induce enough "grab" on the little nipples on the end of the drum. Not necessarily pretty, but it works.

I removed, rewired, and reinstalled the pickup shoe plate on the bottom of the motor. So, along with the e-unit, new wiring throughout. 

The new (well, old, actually) 8-spoked wheels that I discussed above worked out well. I was able to install them without to much effort. I did have to perform some minor surgery, though. I'll explain ...

The 1688's original 12-spoke wheels were late 1930's vintage. The hub on the back of the 12-spoke wheels is short, and inset from the rim of the wheels. To compensate for this "recessed wheel hub", Lionel used wheel bearings in the late 1930's that differed from those on earlier-generation Lionel Jr motors ... the late '30's motors had bearings that stuck out proud of the motor side plates ... essentially poking into the wheel cavity, abutting the recessed wheel hub.

However, I've chosen to swap over to early-1930's 8-spoke wheels ... which have a full-depth hub. As such, I had to grind away the "proud" portion of the wheel bearings, such that the 8-spoke wheel (and its hub) would sit properly next to the motor sideplate. (Otherwise, the wheel gauge would be too big.)

So ... the motor has been rebuilt and is running nicely.

*Now ... the bad news ...*

The 1688 shell is pretty chewed up. I had mentioned earlier that the step below the door on both sides of the cab is missing. I've ground down the jagged edge to a square/straight edge, but haven't thought yet how I might rebuilt the step.

But, more carnage ... this time, my fault ...

I had noticed a crack about 1.5" long on the bottom/midside of the shell. The lower portion of the shell (below the crack) was bulged out a bit. I stupidly tried to coax it back into position / alignment with my thumb, but the metal was apparently too brittle. The piece snapped off, fell to the floor, and broke into 4 smaller pieces. #@&!%#!! ... I repeat: *#@&!%#!! *

So, now my shell has a bit, gaping chunk missing from its side. I'll have to kludge together some sort of a JB Weld repair ... I think I can set the 4-pieces back into position (more or less), and maybe add a reinforcement plate on the back (inside) of the loco. Maybe.

I was thinking of making a backing / reinforcement plate out of a throw-away credit-card-style hotel key ... easy to cut/shape one of those. *T-Man ... do you know if JB Weld will adhere to that OK ???*

No photos yet ... I'll try to snap some tomorrow.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you rough up the surface, JB-Weld sticks to most anything. Certain plastics that seem to have "lube" in them are difficult to get a bond.

If I'm in doubt, I sand the surface with rough sandpaper to give gripping surfaces and bond away. 

You can also try a trial run with the plastic and some scrap, just to see if it bonds well. I've been known to do that as well.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John,

Good idea to roughen the surface with sandpaper. I'll give a test piece a workout tomorrow to see how it holds to JB Weld.

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Use tape on the front hole and glob it on the back to gain surface area.

Add to the exterior later, and sand flush the exterior.

The old shells are tempermental.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Clearly, you don't want this kind of loco to fall off the table, you'd have tinfoil!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Broken promises ...*

Thanks for the tips. Here's the carnage ...










The mid-body break is right through a "ridgeline" that runs down the length of the loco. Two of the four broken pieces contain the ridge, so I will try my best to glue these pieces back into position (to maintain the ridge) before fairing everything out with epoxy filler.

The back ladder/step below the cab door (left and right) is also broken/missing. I've ground down the jagged edges to square/straight edge here.


Well ... at least I've got the motor running, with its new (old) wheels ...

You can see the epoxy repair around the top can of the brushplate.


















TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When I was trying to bend the back of my diecast shell back to bond it, I was thinking along the lines that I'd get the result you did, I was surprised that it managed to bend back into position and allow me to bond it.

I like T-Man's idea of the tape to hold everything in position for the bonding pass.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This one is beyond the tape trick.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That would be major surgery!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ha ha ...

T-Man's loco is the Poster Child for *Gravitableitis* ... a horrible affliction ... 

Note, too, that his loco and mine share the same "One Giant Leap for Mankind" cab step !

TJ


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## Zeke (Feb 22, 2011)

Aww man. T-Man's picture makes me want to cry.

TJ - Sorry for your troubles, but I'm sure you'll be able to work it all out. I got faith!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That was the good side.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That shell is toast T-Man, no hope at all!


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## joe7034 (Feb 3, 2011)

If you are sending that loco to the big train house in the sky, would you consider parting it out, I could use the side marker lights and glass tube in the light......


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

As they say on Mythbusters: Gravity, it's not just a good idea.....it's THE LAW! Sorry for your loss.
-Art


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

joe7034 said:


> If you are sending that loco to the big train house in the sky, would you consider parting it out, I could use the side marker lights and glass tube in the light......


I may need them for other shells. The markers are still sold. The lens can be had if you have an old fire detector.

TJ after seeing the pieces, try super glue, then epoxy the back side. At least you have the original pieces.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> TJ after seeing the pieces, try super glue, then epoxy the back side. At least you have the original pieces.


T-Man ... that's exactly my plan ... CA glue to hold the 4 pieces in place, and then epoxy and a plastic (hotel door key) reinforcement on the backside. Or, I might use a blank refridgerator magnet ... I have a pack of the kind that one would stick on to a business card. The material cuts easily with a scissors, and must have some metal content in it, in order to be magnetic. I JB Weld glued a few test samples yesterday ... plastic hotel keys vs. magnetic fridge material. I haven't given the pull test to them, yet, but I'm curious to see which bonds to the epoxy best. I'll let you know.

The edges of the 4 broken pieces were a little distorted when that side of the shell bulged out. Accordingly, I've ground down the edges "just a hair", so that when I reassemble them, the pieces will fall back into a non-bulged orientation ... hopefully.

I'll have a little "filler" work to do along the crack seams on the exposed side. However, I'm planning on a flat black paint job, and I hope that that will help hide any local suface distortions. (Rather than gloss paint.)

Your "carnage" loco shell is too funny ... I think that T-Rex of your must have been way too hungry one night!

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Sometimes I just feel like collecting ugly run down trains.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Sometimes I just feel like collecting ugly run down trains.



I would like to know how it came to be like that.

Maybe someone tried to pry off the shell instead of unscrewing it?

I think it was more then a fall to make it look like that.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Unknown, it was in a box lot. The owner was selling postwar stuff and couldn't remember getting the older prewar.

Going back it was the box that had my 248. Everything looked in bad shape.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Unknown, it was in a box lot. The owner was selling postwar stuff and couldn't remember getting the older prewar.
> 
> Going back it was the box that had my 248. Everything looked in bad shape.



I figured by now you would have fixed that little hole with some epoxy.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi guys,

I've been traveling a bit with work, and haven't had too much time to delve into train projects. That said, I did start a little work on the 1688 shell repair ...

I Zap-glued the 4 broken pieces back into the shell. They were bent a bit, so alignment was NOT perfect, unfortunately. After that, I made a "first layer" reinforcement plate out of a credit-card-style hotel key and glued it to the back with JB Weld. I cut it to fit into a rectangular recess that was originally cast on the inside of the shell. After that dried, I made a "second layer" and larger reinforcement plate, which is shown below being JB-Welded into place, along with a little epoxy fairing buildup on the outside. The Q-tips are pushing the plate into place while the epoxy dries.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Nice save TJ
Looking good so far....I would have thought that was a gonner  I like the Q-tip trick. A little bondo may help resolve the wavyness.
-Art


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## joe7034 (Feb 3, 2011)

Really nice job, my black 1688 is sitting in the plastic bag in the stripper bath. I hope it comes out half as clean as yours
joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Good save, looks like with a little sanding it'll be "good as new".


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks guys ... pretty simple repair-in-progress. I also glued on some "first layer" buildups in way of the missing cab ladder steps later today. I'll let that dry 24 hours before attempting to Zap glue on the actual stair tread details.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks guys ... pretty simple repair-in-progress. I also glued on some "first layer" buildups in way of the missing cab ladder steps later today. I'll let that dry 24 hours before attempting to Zap glue on the actual stair tread details.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ



Nice!:thumbsup:

And another use for q tips.:thumbsup:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The originality never ceases to amaze me.

Q tips as a pressure vise.

Nice mud job.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The Q-tip pressure clamps were a "dumb luck / got lucky" find. I had put fresh (wet) epoxy on the plate, but I needed something to clamp it in place. I happened to have my trusty box of q-tips in front of me. I grabbed one, cut one end off leaving the stem part a bit oversized for my loco with, and presto ... the soft q-tip cushion end turned out to be the perfect / easy pusher clamp thing for the epoxy plate. Easy ... but just dumb luck invention on my part!

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Good use for credit-card-style hotel keys ...*

Hi guys,

A fiddled a bit a lunchtime today, and have made some progress rebuilding the broken (missing) ladder steps on my 1688 shell. Previously, I had JB-Weld glued a plastic backing plate to the affected area. I made the plate out of a cut up credit-card-style hotel key. Today, I used a sharp straight edge razor, a straight edge, and some ZAP CA glue to add a second built-up layer of thickness, along with a little 4-step sub-assembly to each side ... all made out of the same hotel key plastic.

I'm not sure how it will all paint and hold up, but ... live and learn ...

You can also see a bit more buildup and fairing to the broken area in the middle of the shell ... not quite done, but getting there ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Good looking steps, I'd think some plastic compatible primer would help. I'll bet it'll be tough to tell from the originals when you're done.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Hey TJ you seem to have quite a surplus of hotel room keys....what's up with that? LOL
-Art


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Artieiii said:


> Hey TJ you seem to have quite a surplus of hotel room keys....what's up with that? LOL
> -Art


:laugh:

Uhh ... err ... umm ... who? ... me??? ... umm ...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Hole? What hole ????*

Well, I'll give my atta-boy thumbs up to JB Weld and free, plastic hotel keys. I've finished the repair of the broken mid-section of the 1688 shell, along with my rebuild of the missing cab ladder/steps.

The shell is shown below with Krylon grey primer. Not too bad, I think ...

TJ

*BEFORE:*










*AFTER HOLE AND CAB REPAIR:*


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like new!  I'll tell you, I've fixed all sorts of stuff with JB-Weld, great stuff!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That looks great, maybe you can fix T mans hole too.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John ... thanks for the nice comments ... I'm happy with how this is coming out, and am hopefull that the JB Weld will hold things together OK.

Ed ... too funny! Uhhh ... when the holed part is actually larger than the intact part, I don't think there's too much hope left!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

T-Man's just may be beyond hope.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I do like those steps! :thumbsup:


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## joe7034 (Feb 3, 2011)

I was going to start a new thread, but since this one is on the 1688, here is my latest addition. I figured I needed some color to my group, I went with metalic colbolt blue, ( I had line stripe yellow in my hand) I used pin stripe for the lines.
Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice job, looks better than the original paint job!


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Nice paint job. /) /)
-Art


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> Well, I'll give my atta-boy thumbs up to JB Weld and free, plastic hotel keys. I've finished the repair of the broken mid-section of the 1688 shell, along with my rebuild of the missing cab ladder/steps.
> 
> The shell is shown below with Krylon grey primer. Not too bad, I think ...
> 
> ...


That primed shell is BLOODY BRILLIANT! Really nice job - well done.

- Paul in AZ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Paul, etc.

Thanks for the very nice comments. I'm please with how the hole repair turned out. That's the nice thing about a product like JB Weld is that you can goop it on, let it dry, and then sand or file it down to final shape. Most of the "rub rail" in way of the hole is JB, rather than original metal. I used a single-edge razor blade positioned at 90-degrees to shave a crisp edge on the three faces ... sort of like a tiny hand-held plane.

The left-edge, right-edge, and bottom of the steps are all one piece of plastic. I half-way cut the bottom corners, and then simply bent it into a square U shape. Then, I stuck that to the sticky side of blue painters tape to hold it into "square" position, and then placed (on the sticky tape) the other steps. Once held by the tape, I put a tiny dab of Zap in each butt joint, sprayed the assembly with Kicker for a quick dry, and then presto ... easy step sub-assembly, ready to glue in place on the rebuild cab side.

Joe -- the colbolt blue looks nice on a streamliner. I'm going with basic flat black on this one.

I sprayed it black on Wednesday, and left for vaca the next day. That way, I'm forcing myself to let the paint fully dry for a week or so before I do any fitting out. (Usually, I'm more impatient, and wait just a day. But I really think the paint cures to a harder finish after several days.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*1688 Third Chances ... Nearly Done!*

Hi guys,

My "third chances" 1688 project is nearly done. After a motor overhaul, installation of a "surgically castrated" drive wheel, and several shell repairs (per prior posts), I opted to paint this streamliner simple Krlyon Flat Black.

*BEFORE:*









*AFTER:*



























If you look closely, you can see the 2-layer "hotel credit-card key" reinforcement buildup on the inside of the right side of the shell, at the center-bottom of the photo above. The thickness addition of these plates reduced motor clearance in way of the drive rods. I ground back the length of the drive rod studs on the wheels a bit to narrow things up just a bit. I also added nylon-washer spacers to position the motor properly on its transverse mount screw.

I am missing a front truck. I'll order a repro set from Jeff Kane.

Another victim survives ...

TJ


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

Dang! That turned out great. Good luck with it.

- Paul in AZ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You'd never know without looking up it's skirt.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

TJ,
It reminds me of the Coors Light Silver bullet train...Paint her chrome and add some beer stickers lol.
Looks very nice! I like the matt black paint job.

How's this for a 1688 Silver Bullet Train:








I had a little trouble making your matt black look silverish with photoshop.
-Art


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You'd never know without looking up it's skirt.


Quality is a rare thing these days. Good work should be acknowledged.

- Paul in AZ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks guys!

TJ


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## joe7034 (Feb 3, 2011)

Great job!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey Art,

That's a fun Photoshopped Silver Bullet. However, for the record, and for anyone breezing through this thread at some point ...

*I did NOT paint my 1688 to look like a Coors loco!!*

In the words of an ATF security officer: "Put DOWN that PhotoShop mouse, and STEP AWAY from the keyboard!!!" 

Maybe in some future life ... 

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> *I did NOT paint my 1688 to look like a Coors loco!!*


But you know you want to!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Restoration done!!!*

I ordered and installed a repro front truck assembly from Jeff Kane ...



















Cheers,

TJ


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

That's really nice, TJ - WELL DONE!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like new, good job!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

:thumbsup:

what is next on the Tin Mans operating table?

I having been seeing quite a few good priced tin fixer uppers on e bay.
Did you snag some?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, guys ... much appreciated.

Ed -- I've got the "assembly line" of 1681's on my work table ... 5 or 6, depending on how I count up the pieces. After that, I'm gonna redo a #56 lamp post (to match my other one), and then ... TAKE A REST! Seriously ... I enjoy the restoration work, but I'm beginning to feel pressured by those voices in my head! I need a break.

Beyond that, though, I think a redo of a few tenders for the 1681's. And, I picked up a prewar windup 1506 loco that has no windup guts. I'm toying with the idea of putting on of the Lionel Jr powered motors into it ... will require some frame and motor surgery, though.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks, guys ... much appreciated.
> 
> Ed -- I've got the "assembly line" of 1681's on my work table ... 5 or 6, depending on how I count up the pieces. After that, I'm gonna redo a #56 lamp post (to match my other one), and then ... TAKE A REST! Seriously ... I enjoy the restoration work, but I'm beginning to feel pressured by those voices in my head! I need a break.
> 
> ...


No Alien green?:laugh:


Yes I saw the other post right after I posted that.

What no passenger cars yet?


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## jimhaight (Apr 28, 2011)

I might need the front truck/motor mount from that DOA 1668 shell. (If not available, Jeff Kane probably has one.) Found an apparently (?) perfect 1668 shell from Les Kramer, who rebuilds E-units. Haven't seen it yet, but it needs the front truck/motor mount.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Refresh my memory ... which DOA 1668 shell?

Update ... ahh ... I remember:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=72681&postcount=55

I'm pretty sure Jeff has front trucks for 1668 and 1688's.

Cheers,

TJ


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## jimhaight (Apr 28, 2011)

*That DOA 1668 shell*

It was the 1668 shell that you apparently figured was beyond redemption. I misidentified the part I need. It's the stamped metal piece that fits into the slots at the forward end of the shell; it's secured by screws on each side of the shell. The part has slots into which fit corresponding tabs on the motor frame. It also has the post on which the pilot truck assembly is mounted.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ahh ...

Bracket shown in the last pics of Posts #8 and 57, above ... there on a 1688, but I believe the same for a 1668. Not sure what Part I.D. #, though.

Hope you can track one down,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think it was T-Man that had the "beyond hope" locomotive.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks to this thread, I've become quite a fan of the looks of the 1688 and have started snooping around for one to add to my growing collection. It's interesting how such a sleek and futuristic looking locomotive has such a boxy and old fashioned little tender...

One question I've been unable to find an answer to is this: what's the difference between the 1688 and 1688E?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Lionel used that relatively inexpensive (then) tinplate tender on several lower-budget sets in the 1930's.

I often use the term 1688 and 1688E interchangeably. That said, and in general, Lionel locos that are named with an E incorporate an auto-reversing "e-unit". Early locos without the E designation typically had a manual (rather than auto) reverse switch.  That said, Lionel changed its naming tune, and many late-production versions of locos often found Lionel dropping the E designation, even though these DID include an e-unit. I believe (???) that's the case with the 1688 ... I think later-models 1688E's were actually named 1688, and did include the e-unit.

There are several variants of the 1688/1688E, each with subtle differences. I suggest you read this thread where I discussed the different types. I was learning as I wrote, so not everything is necessarily accurate ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3726

Importantly:

Early-generation 1688E's had the "Lionel Jr." style of motor, with the e-unit slot mid-length on the shell. At some point in the later 1930's, Lionel switch to a different style motor with a molded plastic (bakelite?) bottom. These had the e-unit slot much further aft on the shell. The shells are not interchangeable. The two different styles of motor mount to the shell differently, too.

I've also seen some 1688's (or 1688E's) with an open-backed cab, and some with a closed-back cab. And I've seen some with a thinner metal shell casting, and some with a much thicker metal shell casting.

You might also want to read my "other 1688" restoration thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6004

If you like this style of loco, you might also consider hunting for the 1668/1668E ... a near-identical shell, but with a 2-6-2 wheel config, rather than the 2-4-2 config. Usually, a bit more expensive, too.

Regards,

TJ


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Excellent information! I've been reading up on everything I can find about the 1688 and 1668. You've certainly given me a lot to research and think about! I've always been a postwar guy and never thought I'd be smitten by the prewar stuff.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you can have the postwar version, and it even sports TMCC/Railsounds.  Here's mine.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey John,

I forget if we've discussed this before ...

I see that your "modern" version has windows on the front of the cab. Though the far majority of prewar 1668's and 1688's do not have the cab-front windows, I have seen a few 1688's that do have them. It must have been a limited tooling / production run on Lionel's part. Much rarer than most 1688's. Interestingly, one of my non-window 1688's has the "shadow" of the windows on the inside of the casting. Go figure!

Nice loco on your end!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm guessing that they took the tooling for the one that had the least number built just to add to the panache of their reissue. That's just a guess mind you. 

I have seen several variations of that design in the prewar stuff, never thought too much about it though. I never owned any of this design in the prewar ones, just caught my eye when I saw this one for sale and it was in like-new condition.

Interesting that the tender looks nothing like any of the prewar ones that I've seen in this design, it's a hefty diecast unit. All the prewar ones I've seen have been the tinplate type.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

eljefe said:


> Thanks to this thread, I've become quite a fan of the looks of the 1688 and have started snooping around for one to add to my growing collection.


My persistence has been rewarded and I've acquired 2 of these little fellas--a 1688 and a 1688E. No success on a 1668 yet. Regardless, the 2 I've gotten are quite the smooth runners. I also bought a set of 1690 series passenger cars to give them something to pull around. Pictures will come once I have some time...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Congrats! Looking forward to the pics.

TJ


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Are the 238/238E yet another variant of the streamline torpedo family?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes and no.

The 238 shares the same general streamliner styling of the 1668 and 1688. However, the 238 is much larger / heavier in size, and much more expensive, too. These typically go for $280 and up on ebay.

The 238 has a nickel "wing" badge under its smokestack rim. It's a 4-4-2 wheel config, whereas the 1668 is 2-6-2 and the 1688 is 2-4-2.

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Here's a soon-ending ebay auction of a 238 in excellent condtion. One of the cleanest I've seen. $105 with 5 hours left ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230683350889?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

ebay # 230683350889


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'll bet it'll go higher, there are 20 bids already!


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Sshhh! That's the one I was looking at!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Still the same price...


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Alas, I drove the price way up but was unable to win. Oh well. My consolation prize is a 2343 F-3 AA set, which I wanted much more! :thumbsup:


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## jreid (May 9, 2011)

All is well that ends well


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