# 282 Wiring



## daveh219

OK Forum members...I'm stumped. Been working on my 282 AND I can get the loco to run and smoke great IF I use the jumper across the two middle plugs on the panel. I can get the tender e-unit to cycle when I put power to the rails with the panel plug undone. BUT I can not get the entire loco-tender unit to work together.

Now I have gone over the wiring diagrams in the K-Line book, which says the two wires from the field coil go to the bottom plugs on the panel and the two from the brushes go to the top. BUT when I looked at the RFGCO wiring they had it different, with one coil up, one down.

The 282 is a five wire set-up and the light works when the two plugs are plugged in. I have wired and re-wired the system at least 5 times using different locations for wires and am :dunno::dunno::dunno:

Any thoughts


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## flyernut

Please excuse my ignorance but what is a 262??


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## daveh219

Flyer...excuse my typing...282. Sorry and edited


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## flyernut

daveh219 said:


> Flyer...excuse my typing...282. Sorry and edited


I thought you might have meant 282, but I wanted to make sure. Let's start over, shall we,lol.... Your wiring is correct, right?? If the wiring is correct, are you sure the fingers are adjusted correctly in that they are contacting the drum?? They may look like it, but looks can be deceiving.I would cycle the e-unit until you get it in a forward or reverse run position. I would then push the fingers against the drum using a wooden toothpick to be sure contact is being made. Make sure power is on during this step. Do you have another tender to test the engine with?? I would go with the RFG diagram; that's the one I use..DOUBLE-CHECK your wiring first. It's easy to get wires crossed.. I would then make sure all the solder joints are solid.. The engine runs, the e-unit cycles when power is applied, so the weak spot, I would assume, would be in the finger adjustment.. I've been there before,lol.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## daveh219

Flyer...found one finger that was "just" missing the drum. Bent it back into place, checked the wiring, resoldered one connection and AWAY it went. Couldn't have done it without you. Thanks again, for not only this valuable info but the consistent info you give day in and day out...

Dave


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## flyernut

daveh219 said:


> Flyer...found one finger that was "just" missing the drum. Bent it back into place, checked the wiring, resoldered one connection and AWAY it went. Couldn't have done it without you. Thanks again, for not only this valuable info but the consistent info you give day in and day out...
> 
> Dave


Thanks for the kind words my friend.This one wasn't that hard, as we had power to the unit, but none to the motor.You'll find quite a few guys here who are happy to work with you, and if I start naming them, I know I'll miss one or two, so I won't go there. Again glad to help, and thank you...Loren


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## amer/flyer

How do you adjust the fingers in the tender unit, they rest on the copper cylinder I would assume. Just took mine apart, I am new to this. Checked the solder joints, they all look good. Should the cylinder have black on it all the way around?


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> How do you adjust the fingers in the tender unit, they rest on the copper cylinder I would assume. Just took mine apart, I am new to this. Checked the solder joints, they all look good. Should the cylinder have black on it all the way around?


First remove the fingers, both top and bottom, by slightly twisting the tabs that hols them on the e-unit. Then you can spread the e-unit apart and remove the drum. I use a piece of either red or green scotch-brite pad and polish the drum. I also scrub the inside of the e-unit with it. I then use a piece of sandpaper twisted into a long "stick" and polish the holes the drum pivots on. Slightly oil the holes and replace the drum. To adjust the fingers, bend then very carefully and slightly, making sure they come in contact with the drum.


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## amer/flyer

amer/flyer has found some new brushes and springs for American Flyer on ebay.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks


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## amer/flyer

flyernut,

I have the tender running, but not going anywhere, any thoughts? The loco will not run either.


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> flyernut,
> 
> I have the tender running, but not going anywhere, any thoughts? The loco will not run either.


I'm a little confused about your question..


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## amer/flyer

The tender is making noise, the cylinder is moving and clicking. if that helps


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## T-Man

How many wires go to the cab? It could be a bad connection. Does your engine have a jack? That is where the wires disconnect from the cab.


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## flyernut

Your e-unit in the tender is cycling, and it should. However, you don't have any power from the e-unit to the motor. Check your wiring, and solder joints. Also make sure the upper and lower fingers are making contact with the drum.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks


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## amer/flyer

4 wires in the disconnect, 1 outside for the light. I have checked all, but am going to check again. the tender cannot get power to the engine. 

Thanks


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## amer/flyer

I don't mean to sound bad, but what is cycling the e-unit? I am new at this.

Thanks,
amer/flyer


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## T-Man

To power on and off, powers the coil and each time the drum rotates or cycles.

The tough question match your loco to one of the diagrams. Here


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## amer/flyer

Then I have a problem, the drum will not rotate. But the light comes on.


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## T-Man

The lever has to be in position to turn, it also locks the drum.


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Then I have a problem, the drum will not rotate. But the light comes on.


Find out why the drum does not rotate..


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## T-Man

AT this point you should search reverse unit under S scale and read some threads. Understand how it works and then determine where the power should be and is not.

You need good connections on the wires all the way to the motor and all the way back to the tender wheels. Having a light on is good. So the trucks should be fine.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks, I will have to spend some time on it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Have you tried running the engine with a direct connection, by-passing the reverse unit and tender? Here is a wiring diagram to try this....












If you can get it to run this way, you'll then know your problem is within the tender, reverse unit or the wiring and nothing to do with the motor. At least it narrows the possibilities.


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## amer/flyer

OK, thanks.


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## amer/flyer

Question,
I took another look, the tender,s drum will turn 1 click at a time when power is applied. Engine will not work. Any suggestions?


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Question,
> I took another look, the tender,s drum will turn 1 click at a time when power is applied. Engine will not work. Any suggestions?


Still sounds like a finger/wiring issue to me.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

That is exactly what it should do. However, if the wiring is wrong, the power will never get to the engine. Also, if any of the four fingers is not in contact with the copper surface of the drum, that will also prevent power from reaching the engine. To check if the fingers are touching, you can apply power, then by using a toothpick, push on the ends of the finger to see if they then touch the drum surface and cause the engine to move. You would need to cycle the drum a few times and try all the fingers to determine if any are the fault. But it could also be incorrect wiring or bad solder joints. Try to run the engine with the direct method I sent earlier. That will determine if the problem is in the tender or not.


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## amer/flyer

I tried the direct method; nothing happened with the engine. I will try adjusting the fingers next. I did some work in those areas earlier, took the fingers off the bottom and put them back again.

Thanks for helping.


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## amer/flyer

Some of the wiring is old, the black cloth insulted type, could that be the culprit?


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Some of the wiring is old, the black cloth insulted type, could that be the culprit?


Could be...


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## amer/flyer

Thanks, I was going to use a thin type of wire.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

As long as your transformer is performing OK, the problem may be the motor in the engine since it failed to react to direct connection. Have you disassembled it for a good cleaning, check the brushes, springs, clean the amrature, etc.?


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> As long as your transformer is performing OK, the problem may be the motor in the engine since it failed to react to direct connection. Have you disassembled it for a good cleaning, check the brushes, springs, clean the amrature, etc.?


I didn't see that! Check your brushes, brush springs, and re-face the armature. Just like NBF said.These engines are simple and bullet-proof.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Any amount of the old grease and dirt will cause friction to prevent these motors from turning. You need to disassemble the entire motor and clean the chassis, gears and other parts with plastic-safe contact cleaner spray. You can find it at various electrical stores, Radio Shack also carries it. Use a screwdriver, toothpicks anything that can get into all the nooks and crannies to get all the dirt and gunk removed. Use copious amounts of contact spray and paper towels, Q-tips to clean the motor parts. When you remove the brass wiring clips from the motor brushes, be careful not to lose the brush springs -- they are under compression in the holder and have been known to "fly" out of there when the caps are removed. The armature also needs to be cleaned. A green scotchbrite pad will work wonders with the contact spray. Use a very fine (2000 grit) sand paper on the armature face -- the copper plates at one end -- to remove all the discoloration and return it to a nice shiny copper color. I usually place the armature pinion gear end into my electric drill, lightly chucking it in place and using a folded piece of 2000 grit sandpaper in one hand, run the drill slowly while lightly pressing against the copper plates of the armature. This usually works well to return that copper shine. Using a toothpick or other sharp tool, gently clean the grooves of dirt/gunk between the 3 copper plates on the armature. Finish it off with a good spraydown of contact cleaner and wipe it dry. Clean the brush bracket thoroughly with contact spray and use Q-tips to clean the holes where the brushes insert. Reassemble everything and it should be in great shape to work. Brush length must be at least 3/16" long, otherwise they should be replaced.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks, I know about the springs, they do "fly" out, lost one. I saw an expert who gave me some new springs, they have been added. Saw the copper face, that has to be cleaned, taken off, and get to the inside of the motor, the armature, clean it carefully and put back.

Thanks


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Once you remove the brush springs and brushes, you can then remove the two screws that hold the brush bracket onto the motor chassis casting. Pull it off and the armature can "screw" out by twisting it -- it is meshed wth the drive gear. From then on cleaning as described above and then reassembling. Hopefully that takes care of the problem. Even if it doesn't, you be happy knowing it was done and it can no longer add to the problem. You mentioned the cloth-covered wiring to the back of the engine. I assume this is to a 4-prong plug that plugs into the receptacle on the back of the engine body? This is called the 'jackplate'. Be sure the wires going to the plugs and those to the jackplate are soldered solidly and correctly according to the wiring diagrams. If necessary, they can be replaced with similar wiring available from local hobby stores. Once this has been checked, the only issue to remain would have to be in the tender with the wiring or reverse unit. You might also take that scotchbrite pad to the metal wheels of the tender and clean them of dirt, grime to return that shine. While down there, check that the insulators between the tender trucks and the tender chassis are in good shape and not shorting.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

This thought occurs to me....have you removed the motor from the boiler body yet?? This unit should have choo-choo and smoke in the boiler. To remove the motor from the body, you need to remove the two screws at the rear of the chassis holding it to the body. Normally it would slide out by pushing slightly forward first, then lifting it up and out rearward. But the smoke stack insert will prevent this from happening. So before attempting to remove the motor chassis, take a bladed screwdriver down the top of the smoke stack and inserting it into the two notches in the smoke stack insert, turn it counterclockwise to unscrew it out of the engine. I am not sure if yours will be brass or red plastic. However they are designed the same way. It might be a little tough to get out due to age. If it bends or breaks, no problem, there are cheap reproductions available to replace it. But it must be removed. Once this is out, you can then remove the screws holding the motor chassis and do as mentioned above to get it out. This will help you to do the work you need to service it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Can't remember if we gave these to you or posted their location, but these will help....

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album209/282_2

This is the first page of your engine series, go to the next couple of pages for the parts listing.

Write again if you need help.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Once you remove the brush springs and brushes, you can then remove the two screws that hold the brush bracket onto the motor chassis casting. Pull it off and the armature can "screw" out by twisting it -- it is meshed wth the drive gear. From then on cleaning as described above and then reassembling. Hopefully that takes care of the problem. Even if it doesn't, you be happy knowing it was done and it can no longer add to the problem. You mentioned the cloth-covered wiring to the back of the engine. I assume this is to a 4-prong plug that plugs into the receptacle on the back of the engine body? This is called the 'jackplate'. Be sure the wires going to the plugs and those to the jackplate are soldered solidly and correctly according to the wiring diagrams. If necessary, they can be replaced with similar wiring available from local hobby stores. Once this has been checked, the only issue to remain would have to be in the tender with the wiring or reverse unit. You might also take that scotchbrite pad to the metal wheels of the tender and clean them of dirt, grime to return that shine. While down there, check that the insulators between the tender trucks and the tender chassis are in good shape and not shorting.


Also, don't lose that small tiny shim on the armature shaft. It has to go back in the same way it came off.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Good point f.n. --


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## Kwikster

When wiring a loco or tender I prefer to use either 22 or 24 gauge superflex wiring. It better withstands the repeated flexing of components such as the pick-ups used for center rail items in O-scale. I'd venture to guess there's a fair amount of movement on the tender/loco connections in S-scale as well. You shouldn't need heavier than 22 gauge in your application.

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

If you must rewire the tender to engine harness, they do make a 4-conductor 24-ga stranded harness that is covered in black cloth to look like original. I have found this at various train shows although the price varies. I usually pay about a $1.00 per foot. I never get the "already-cut-to-length" items as I make mistakes soldering or stripping the ends, so I want extra just in case. Sometimes this is referred to as "superflex" wire which it needs to be when the engine and tender wiggle and wobble their way down the track.


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## amer/flyer

Yes, I took the engine apart for a good cleaning. The brushes are the correct length, but the springs could be short, not putting enough pressure on the brushes?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well, you stated one "flew" out when you released it....sounds like enough compression to me.


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## amer/flyer

Have to check again, could be that when I screw the plate back on didn't scew al the way in because the motor would not spin freely.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

When the motor is assembled, it will not spin freely. The fact that it is a worm gear will prevent that. However, you should be able to turn the armature slightly little by little and see the wheels turn ever so slowly.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I may have mentioned it but I'll do so again, the minimum brush length should be no less than 3/16". Anything less than that should be replaced. At about a $1 each, it is not expensive to replace them should you desire to do so. BTW -- If you find yourself short of any parts, let us know. We've been known to assist from our private inventories.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks flyer,

I may do that.


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## amer/flyer

I checked the tender and checked the soldering joints and wires, found some old and loose wires. Checked the fingers also, pushed them against the drum, now they spark when power is added. Engine still doesn't work. Going to take the motor apart again and make sure it is clean and springs and brushes are ok. I measured the brushes are the correct length, over 3/16".


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Amer/flyer - can you post photos of your progress so we can see what has been done, maybe see something that needs attention?

Do you have a muti-meter by chance? If so, set it for resistance and check conductivity between all four wires in the engine-to-tender harness to be sure there are no breaks anywhere along the length. If the wire conducts properly, your resistance will read "zero". If bad, the meter will continue to show "infinite" resistance and never budge. Also use the meter to check those same connections between the points in the tender where they originate to the jack plug. Do the same for those from the jack plate to the motor field and brush connections too. We need to be sure no wires are broken or that you have any bad solder joints.

I'd like to see the motor parts disassembled -- maybe can see somehting that could be causing the issue of not running. If you cleaned the motor and all parts, reassembled it properly, it should run (in one direction) in direct connect mode. So something just seems wrong here.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

If worse comes to worse, you can send it to one of us and we'll take a look at it for you -- no charge, except for any parts and shipping. From the sound of it, it may not need parts, so basically just the shipping fees. Keep that in mind. I know you probably want to resolve this yourself for both the experience and satisfaction, and that is good. But when you finally have had enough, let one of us know.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

One thing just occurred to me -- when you reinstalled the brush/spring holder to the back of the motor chassis, do you have the curved "hump" facing downward? If not, try turning it around 180 degrees then reinstall.


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## amer/flyer

Do not have a meter, but have a way to check to see if there is power is going to the points. Can this be used?


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## amer/flyer

Thanks, take a look at it. Have pictures, need to install on forum.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I don't know your situation, but a multi meter can prove a worthwhile investment and they are relatively inexpensive. A decent one can be found for $10-$20.

I was hoping to find if any of these older wires may have become brittle and broken inside the insulation.

Let's see what the photos show and we can go from there.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer,
That is a good question, I will check. Took the engine apart and cleaned, will check the wires. Have pics have to upload them.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I don't know your situation, but a multi meter can prove a worthwhile investment and they are relatively inexpensive. A decent one can be found for $10-$20.
> 
> I was hoping to find if any of these older wires may have become brittle and broken inside the insulation.
> 
> Let's see what the photos show and we can go from there.


I just bought one, $9.99, free shipping, on ebay.


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## flyernut

There are several videos on youtube showing the rebuild of flyer motors.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks


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## amer/flyer

*282*

Flyer,

I feel terrible, but I was working on the 282 and took off the bottom fingers, put them back on again, soldering them both while they were on the tender, my mistake broke the mounting in half, while making a new one, lost the 2 fingers. Can the tender work without them? I am learning a lot about the train though. Where can I find some fingers for a 282 tender and a mounting bracket 2 sets?


Thanks


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Flyer,
> 
> I feel terrible, but I was working on the 282 and took off the bottom fingers, put them back on again, soldering them both while they were on the tender, my mistake broke the mounting in half, while making a new one, lost the 2 fingers. Can the tender work without them? I am learning a lot about the train though.
> 
> 
> Thanks


The tender will not work without them.. Time to get some new fingers.. When you come to the point of frustration, send your loco to one of us, and we'll get it running for you, and explain exactly what we did..


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## amer/flyer

Thanks, I may take you up on that.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Man, I feel for ya. I'm sure you have it in your mind that you want to tackle this on your own. Do me a favor, can you post a couple of photos of what happened and what the condition is now? I'm still confident we can get you through this....


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Man, I feel for ya. I'm sure you have it in your mind that you want to tackle this on your own. Do me a favor, can you post a couple of photos of what happened and what the condition is now? I'm still confident we can get you through this....


Yep, once you take one of these engines apart, it becomes second nature.Hang in there,and use the camera! It will become easier for us to diagnose.


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## amer/flyer

*282 locomotive*

Ok, You're right.


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## amer/flyer

*how to*

Flyer,

Should I replace both the top and bottom fingers on the e-unit, is the top forward and reverse the bottom? Also, how do you upload pics to this website.

John


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## amer/flyer

I have taken pics, need to know how to upload them to forum and thanks for your help.


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## Kwikster

Here's a post explaining it. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2595 Once you do it once it's simple.

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

When you wish to upload pics, go all the way to the bottom where you normally type your responses. Below it are two buttons, one says "Go Advanced" -- click that one. The window opens much similar to the one before except that well below the posting area is a section that has a button "Manage Attachments" - click that one to post photos. It will open with a box that allows you to find the photo on your computer drive and upload it to the forum posting. I believe there is room to do 5 of these at one time. The photos cannot be larger than 2MB I think, but the system seems to shrink photos down to size in the process. Click the "Upload Now" button. It will show something that says "uploading in progress" or something like that. When it's done uploading, use the "Close Window" button at the top of that window and you will return to the posting window. Here you may add your text if you wish to say something. Below the posting window you can either post the response or preview it before posting. I usually preview them to be sure the phgots uploaded and my spelliing is correct. Once you're satisfied, click to post it and it should be there. If you still have problems, there are instructions on one of the Forum threads near the beginning of the main Forum.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

In the case of the fingers, no - top and bottom are both needed for directional control. One of them is not for one direction. Considering the cost of fingers -- about $3 and change -- best to just replace them both. As before, if you need any parts, let us know. Not only can we steer you to good sources, but we also can supply your needs from our inventories. Here is a good source for American Flyer reverse unit servicing as well as other repair help http://www.portlines.com/afrepairclinics.htm Look at number 23 for reverse units, then look at all the others.


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## flyernut

I can't add anything else to what NBF says.Great advice.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

You mean I left you speechless??


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> You mean I left you speechless??


Why, yes you did!!! Expert advice from a expert.. How can I make it better??? Going to pick up my 336 chassis in about an hour, but first a nap!!


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## amer/flyer

5 wires go to the cab, have a jack for 4 wires 1 goes through the loco. A bad connection is what I am going with. So far found some loose, some bad solder joints. Re-wired tender.

Thanks for the input
John (amer/flyer)


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## amer/flyer

When you do the direct connect, do you plug the disconnect in and then do the connect with the 4 wires?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

You do not use the plug from the tender. You use a piece of scrap jumper wire between the two jackplate terminals marked with a jumper, then apply power to the other two from your transformer. If all goes well and the motor is in working condition, it should run. The diagram also shows a similar procedure to check for running in the other direction (reverse). If the engine works with this procedure, then the problem can be definitely traced to the tender or jack plug somewhere. If it does not run, there are problems within the motor that need addressing before going any farther. We can address those if it doesn't run direct connected.


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## amer/flyer

Using 3 wires, 1- jumper between the 2 holes on the jack plate and 1 on one side 1 on the other side from the transformer for power, correct?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

yes, per the diagram i posted


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## amer/flyer

*282*

Flyer,

Thanks for the offer, but I know of a guy who works on American Flyer in the area. I can drive it over there. I think that I may be making headway, I installed the new fingers and some wires, now I am stuck on the engine. Keep you posted, again thanks for the offer.

amer/flyer


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## amer/flyer

Checked the wires on the 282 tender also.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Just in case you were confused, the staggered fingers go on top and centered fingers go on front. Hope tha tis how you have them. However, if something knowledgeable will be working on it for you, he/she should notice if they are correctly installed. Best of luck and don't forget to post the finished work. My reward will be to see it running.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer,

Thanks, I installed them correctly and followed the wiring diagram you sent me. Found some wiring problems with the e-unit, corrected them. Let you know how things go.

Thanks again,
amer/flyer


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## amer/flyer

Flyer, 
Question, the 1st and 3rd wires from the jack plate to the engine wok all the way through, engine to the e-unit. The 2nd and 4th do not, any ideas? Wiring is good and checked.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I'm unsure how you are testing these, but I'll guess by checking continuity. If those wires do not conduct properly, it is probably because they are conncted to the reverse unit fingers. If the drum is not in a position to conduct electricity, they won't show continuity. The drum must cycle/rotate between forward - neutral - reverse - neutral - and forward again each time power is applied/off/applied/off/applied. So at some point some wires will not be conducting power. Simply said, just copy the wiring diagram provided before and you should be fine.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer, you are right, that is how I am testing the wires.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer,

I have been testing all 4 wires, all work, but the 4th one that is soldered to the right brush and is not working carrying power from one end to the other end. I got rid of the old solder and re-soldered it back. See what happens.

P.S. update


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## amer/flyer

Flyer,

I took the 282 to get looked at, wiring was good, 1 wire has to be changed, needed a new bearing, springs, brushes and I need a new field this one is dead. Going to order another one and install it. All in all she needs some work but the majority of the problem seems to be the field.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Had I thought of it, we could have tested it before going through all this. I have spares I would have gladly exchanged with you. Fields and armatures can be re-wound. So unless the person you took it to is going to give you credit towards a new one, I'd be sure to keep it for a spare as well as get the new one. They are not being made anymore -- only re-wound ones cna be found, so even your bad one has some value.


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## amer/flyer

He did a good job on it and saw all problems, I will hang onto the old one. Thanks for all the help and thoughts.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer,

Got my field from Portlines. Yes, I agree, I should have tested it. Learned a lot though, plus I meting new people involved with Flyers.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Friendships and Flyers are forever.....


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## amer/flyer

Well said, agree.


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## amer/flyer

I agree Flyer, I am finding it out. put $60.00 in the Flyer so far. I believe she will be running soon, with some help of some people I have just met and you. Someone I went to school with is heavily into Flyer, as well as another gentleman I met who helped a lot.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer, How much is an older American Flyer Locomotive in so so shape worth I.E. a 283?
I am willing to do work on it to make it run, if it doesn't run.

amer/flyer

P.S. I have the bug


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Flyer, How much is an older American Flyer Locomotive in so so shape worth I.E. a 283?
> I am willing to do work on it to make it run, if it doesn't run.
> 
> amer/flyer
> 
> P.S. I have the bug


Nothing broken, running, smoking,choo choo, and head-light working, $75 bucks.That's for a 283.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks, Flyer, How much for a broken one that does not run? I am looking to try to fix another one up.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Not running you might be able to fetch for $30. If you are that serious, I suggest doing a search on eBay to see what those are fetching.

I just returned from a Train Show today where there were several Flyer vendors. I may have been able to do a bit of pricing/research had I known.

Just FYI - Atlantics usually go for much less, are just as easy to work on and are strong pullers/runners. Maybe try one of those??

Funny how the "bug" affects people -- glad you are having that feeling.


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## amer/flyer

Thanks for the info, there is an auction by me in Ft.Wright,Ky. try to see what I can do.


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## sjm9911

Glad you found a resolution! Hope it runs for years to come! As fot the bug, it's just starting out. I myself love fixing up old stuff and giving it new life(although it's a different brand). Have fun.


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## amer/flyer

I found some on E-Bay, some are about $30.00 for one that needs work.


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## amer/flyer

sjm9911, I think I found, installed the new field, scraped the wire down to copper, connected it, still nothing. Hooked up the field to both wires, armature started to turn.
going to turn it a little after it starts, hopefully this will help it, maybe the armature is tired, it hasn't been run in a while. keep your fingers crossed.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer,
The armature will turn a little but needs help. Looking at changing out out the armature, the whole motor must of had a bad life.


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Flyer,
> The armature will turn a little but needs help. Looking at changing out out the armature, the whole motor must of had a bad life.


Is the linkage hooked up to the drive wheels? If so, remove the linkages and try running the motor again. Might be a quartering problem?


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## amer/flyer

May _ ask you what quartering is? I took the linkage off, still a no.


thanks for the help_


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Quartering is a term used to describe the difference in linkage position from LH side to RH side that allows the engine to drive the wheels in succession. For the Flyer steamers, the difference between LH to RH is about 87 degrees of angle. For example, it the linkage connection on the LH drive wheels is exactly at 12:00 position (directly at the top of the wheel), the corresponding linkage connection on the RH side should be 87 degrees before that position -- at just before the 9:00 position. To accomplish this, the drive wheels are pressed onto the axles at these precise angles using quartering tools to ensure that quartering is established to prevent linkage binding. If quartering was not done, the linkages would "fight" each other side to side and binding occurs preventing the motor from turning properly. Quartering gauges/tools are available but are not cheap to nbuy considering the number of times they would be used. Unless you have many engines to work with, changing drive wheels often, it is not worth purchasing a set.


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## Kwikster

Glad to see you're making progress. It's a great feeling saying "I did it myself".

As to quartering: basically when you align the wheels and side rods, one side will be exactly 90 degrees (1/4th turn) from the opposite side, thus the term "quartered". On real steamers this was done for self starting purposes. If both cylinders were 180 degrees apart you could stop with both cylinders at the ends of travel, meaning you'd need a push to start. Many model trains use gear drives on the drivers, which unless wheels are removed holds quartering. I'd start by installing one side rod and rotate it manually feeling for binding then install the other and repeat. If no binding is felt, you should be ok. NOTE: if the motor has a worm gear in the end you may not be able to turn the wheels without removing it. 

Carl


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## markjs

amer/flyer
I've purchased good, running, smoking 283's on Ebay for $40.00. Most seem to go for $50-$60. There was one a while back which sold for around $100. The market goes up and down.
Mark


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## amer/flyer

So just check the drive positions. Can you correct the wheels, or just let them alone, both the wheels move freely without binding.

Thanks again


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## flyernut

Each one of my 283's cost exactly $75 bucks apiece. These were all bought at a train show, and were in running, smoking condition, needing nothing. Nothing stays the same, and the market dictates price..


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## amer/flyer

Excellent, I have more than that sunk into my 282. Could you show me a pic of your 283?


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## flyernut

Not the best pix but here is one of my 283's. The other 2 are packed away somewhere.


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## amer/flyer

Flyer, good looking 283's, where can I get one.


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## amer/flyer

flyernut,

Went to my first train auction, bid on an American Flyer 302 with Tender for $15.00. Hope she works, if not, I'll have some work to do.

ameri/flyer


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> flyernut,
> 
> Went to my first train auction, bid on an American Flyer 302 with Tender for $15.00. Hope she works, if not, I'll have some work to do.
> 
> ameri/flyer


That's a great price. It probably doesn't run, but that's the beauty of it. This is a nice little loco, and I have quite a few of them.. Which variation is it?? 4-piece boiler?? Bake-lite,(plastic) boiler??


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Flyer, good looking 283's, where can I get one.


Train shows buddy. I have 3 of them, all bought at a train show, at different times, from the same guy.


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## amer/flyer

I think she is a bake-lite(plastic) boiler.


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> I think she is a bake-lite(plastic) boiler.


Does it still have the 2 small steps on the cow-catcher, and the steps on the tender?


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## amer/flyer

*282 wiring*

Has a small ladder on the back of the tender and 2 small steps on each side of the locomotive
and a small light in the front. The Locomotive is a 302 Atlantic with Tender.


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Has a small ladder on the back of the tender and 2 small steps on each side of the locomotive
> and a small light in the front. The Locomotive is a 302 Atlantic with Tender.


Tin tender or plastic?


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## amer/flyer

Tin tender


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> Tin tender


It would appear you have a mis-matched loco/tender. The tender should also be plastic to keep it's originality. If you don't car about that, you still have a great little loco, with smoke, choo choo, and light. I love the little Atlantics; easy to work on and easy to fix. You'll love her!


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## amer/flyer

That's OK, Just want save another Flyer.

Thanks
ameri/flyer


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## flyernut

amer/flyer said:


> That's OK, Just want save another Flyer.
> 
> Thanks
> ameri/flyer


Nothing wrong with that kind of thinking!!


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## amer/flyer

Thanks


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## markjs

To FLYERNUT,
Loren,
Looking at your photos, you and I must think alike. I purchased a number of 642s dirt cheap (actually the dirt was free), cleaned them with dishwashing detergent and a soft toothbrush, used the neat hairdryer trick to eliminate the white residue on the wheels and couplers, and finished with a spray of Pledge. A consist of 6 of these shiny cars behind an AF steamer really looks sharp--simple but effective.
Mark


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## amer/flyer

markjs,
I agree, went to a train auction and saw the prices, bought a 302 for $15.00.
There was another 302 which went for $28.00, I was out bid, well it went to a good home I know the guy.


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## amer/flyer

flyernut, do you know where I can get a 282 shell, mine has a bad spot on it, part of it was melted when I while I was soldering.


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## markjs

AMER/FLYER,
Sometimes you might get really lucky on Ebay. I picked up a super-clean, great running 307 for $18, and a 21160 for $10. Usually I won't bid more than $25 for an Atlantic. (There's a guy selling a 302 on Ebay now for $120. It better be close to MIB!!!)

Mark


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## amer/flyer

Thanks for the reply, Mark, my 302 is clean but needs paint in spots. She looks like a good buy.


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## flyernut

markjs said:


> To FLYERNUT,
> Loren,
> Looking at your photos, you and I must think alike. I purchased a number of 642s dirt cheap (actually the dirt was free), cleaned them with dishwashing detergent and a soft toothbrush, used the neat hairdryer trick to eliminate the white residue on the wheels and couplers, and finished with a spray of Pledge. A consist of 6 of these shiny cars behind an AF steamer really looks sharp--simple but effective.
> Mark


I think I have about 20-25 of them, or more. I love the boxcars and reefers. As a kid, we had a 633 B&O red boxcar with the sliding doors, and a brown 642 boxcar.Every time I see one, I see my Dad and myself, running the trains... Miss you Dad.


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## amer/flyer

Sometimes I have that feeling also....


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## amer/flyer

It took me awhile but I got the 282 to run and smoke, thanks to the help I received from 
everyone. It's worth the work.
ameriflyer


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## Kwikster

Happy to hear you did it :appl::appl::smilie_daumenpos: nothing like the feeling of accomplishing something new. Now when you try the next you'll have a better knowledge and it'll be easier. The more you do the easier it gets. I can still remember my first car engine build, I was scared it'd blow up afterwards, when it ran I was tickled pink.

Carl


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## amer/flyer

Carl, I know the feeling, it is great, I like the sounds that it makes, choo-choo and the smoke. I've taken the 302 apart and cleaned it, learned something already.

Thanks,
John


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## amer/flyer

markjs, do you still have that locomotive that doesn't run?


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## amer/flyer

Carl,
Starting a new project 302, looking for a set of front tracks for the cab, know of anyone who wants to sell some? Or any A/F parts?
Thanks,
John


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