# Wiring Question



## Dave60 (Apr 21, 2015)

Is this layout possible from a wiring point?


















The next two are sketches of the track. My question is the reversing loop in the left center section. If you notice the loop angles right, circles around the up and reconnects at the switch .. but .. at the bottom there is a switch with a line going east toward the next section of layout, and then halfway back up there is a switch with a line again going east into the turntable. I like how busy the layout is with the yard, turntable, roundhouse and all but I'm not sure if its possible "electrically".


















Any help would be appreciated. Dave


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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

Dave60 said:


> Is this layout possible from a wiring point?


Of course.

Any track arrangement is "possible". The question is "why". Why do you want that track plan?

Why would you want a track coming off the turntable, through the roundhouse into a reverse loop?

Wouldn't this have been a better question to have asked before you laid all the track and started building mountains and tunnels?

You could come up with a much simpler plan that is more functional, but it would require reconfiguring most of the track in the center of the layout.


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## Dave60 (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks for the reply Hobo. Why?? Well when I was a kid there was a round house in town that had three tracks running into it, but no buildings. I wanted to model it after that, sort of. And as far as the track plan, I like complicated?? The more I study it I'm not sure the loop is any different than a regular reversing loop if I isolate the track between the original switch that begins the loop the third switch that has the siding on it. Then the polarity, when reversed will only affect the upper line in the yard. Maybe??


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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

Dave60 said:


> And as far as the track plan, I like complicated??


Well you are there.



> The more I study it I'm not sure the loop is any different than a regular reversing loop if I isolate the track between the original switch that begins the loop the third switch that has the siding on it. Then the polarity, when reversed will only affect the upper line in the yard. Maybe??


I see at least 2 possible reversing sections that needs to be sorted out. Any path that permits a train to go from one side of the layout to the other or where a train changes direction is a reversing section. There is a reversing section through the turntable and then on the left end is a reversing loop.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Actually, the wiring for your reverse loop is quite simple.

You will want insulated joiners just after the turnout upper
left and just before the turnout lower right. None are
need for the crossing since the cross tracks are isolated
from each other.

A reverse loop controller would feed the isolated section.
All other tracks would be wired direct from the main
controller. You'll sure want to run a bus vertically
and laterally to make sure you have good current in
all parts of the layout.

Often the turntable will have a built in reverse controller.
If yours does not you'll need one for it.

I didn't make out the track routing on the far right so
don't know if you have any other polarity issues.

The Digitrax AR1 is an excellent controller and seems to
be available on line for less than 30.00.

Don


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## Dave60 (Apr 21, 2015)

Don, thanks for the information. The turntable is a Kato and seems to have a reverser in it. I checked on the Digitrax AR1 auto reverser and I'll pick one up, actually I'll get two since the right end of the layout will have a another reversing loop by the lumber yard. One question about the auto reverser, it says on their web sight "•AR1 operates with or without LocoNet, so it is compatible with all DCC systems." Does this mean I need to use a DCC system?

Dave


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Dave

I'm guilty of assuming. With a big complex layout such as
you have designed, I just accepted that it was DCC.

Yes, I'm afraid the AR1 will not work with a DC system.
But, to answer your question, yes, The AR1 is compatible
with any DCC system. A DCC auto reverser senses the
short circuit when loco enters the isolated section. It
reverses the phase (polarity) instantly, and the loco
ignores it. Then when the loco exists the isolated 
section the resulting short again causes the phase
to reverse the loco continues without a burp. The
reason the locos ignore all that action is that the
loco gets it's control from the DCC decoder and it
doesn't care about the track polarity as it would
if DC.

You'll have to use a pair of DPDT switches at each
reverse loop as well as the insulated joiners and
operations will be tricky.

I'll go back and take a second look at that left reverse loop.
Sometimes a DPDT relay can be used that will work
with DC, but don't count on that yet.

Give me a pic of the reverse loop on the right end.
I couldn't make it out.

Is there any hope of upgrading to DCC? It would simplify
the operations on that layout greatly. The AR1s would
make the reverse loops invisible, you'd be able to
run several trains at the same time controlling each
individually and all with no more than buss wiring
to power it. 

However, if you stay DC you'll want to have isolated
sections which will be fed through DPDT switchs so
that you can control whether power pack A or B 
feeds power to each isolated block. Thats the way
you can run 2 trains at the same time. Your wiring
gets very complicated. Keep in mind that as DC,
every loco on a given 'block' will move at the
same time. When you slow, your lights dim.
When you stop, they go out. With DCC, the
track is always 'live', the decoder responds to
your commands and tells each loco what to do
and the lights stay on. 

Sometimes folks think DCC is expensive. But when you
consider that for your layout you are going to need
at least 2 power packs, a good number of DPDT switches,
more insulated joiners and a lot of wire, the
cost narrows between DC and DCC. You can usually
get started in DCC with about 150.00 to 200.00...plus
about $20 or so per loco for decoders. 
The extra fun with DCC will be your reward for making
the choice.

Don


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## Dave60 (Apr 21, 2015)

Well Don, don't feel guilty I apparently know nothing about the modern model railroads the last train set I had was 55 years ago and circled the Christmas tree. 

You have my curiosity peaked with the DCC thing except I have acquired several kato power packs and eight kato locomotives through vendors and gifts and don't really want to spend about $150 apiece on new locomotives. Not sure if the ones I have can be upgraded and if they can what else it would take.

And Dave1905, you are right, I did find another reversing loop on the right end of the layout hid among the turns and switches. I took it out and rerouted the line.

Thanks Dave


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yep, big changes since 55. Actually big changes in the last 20 years with
the advent of DCC which has monumentally changed the capability
of a layout.

If you stay DC you'll want to redesign that area with reverse loop in the left end
of the layout to avoid awkward operating procedures and more wiring.

If your locos are of fairly recent manufacture you could likely upgrade
them to DCC for about 20.00 each.

You would need those power packs even if DCC to power turnouts,
lights, your turntable and that sort of thing. I have 5 and am adding
a 6th for my HO DCC layout that is not quite the size of yours.

Will your turnouts use twin coil or Tortoise type motors?

If twin coil, I would recommend that you power them through
a capacitor discharge unit. It protects the coils from burnout due
to a stuck button or over long push. They're available commercially
or you can make one with parts from Radio Shack. I power mine
with a door bell transformer.

There's another trick I recommend for your yards. A diode matrix
system that lets you push one button on your panel and set all
turnouts in the route to that track. It makes switching a breeze,
and eliminates a lot of derails due to mis set turnouts. You can
get a whole bag of diodes for 3 or 4 $ at Radio Shack that will
do the system.

Don


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## Dave60 (Apr 21, 2015)

Thank you for the replies. I changed the track around to eliminate the reversing loops (all three of them). Yes there were three, after studying the layout and marking direction of travel with tape I found three. I will however leave one on each end of the layout that I'll isolate and then connect and power "after" I get the rest up and running. Again Thanks..


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