# Lionel 221



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Check out these pictures of the latest project. This engine came from a box I purchased through my Local Hobby Shop. I was attracted to this engine because of the gunmetal gray. Last fall I acquired the black version. This guy is going to challenge my patience as impending doom it was with an American Flyer 312. So you will see both engines side by side in the as is phase of restoration. For starters the engine has no roller assembly. It did not work. The reverse unit needed a little attention. Just a little. 



























In the second picture to the right there is a screw. The one that holds the trailing tuck and drawbar. Well that is the top screw that holds the motor to the frame by the top domes. Being a little long the previous owner reused and drove it into the bottom finger plate. The screw won. (picture to come)


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The reverse unit*

Normally you just work on the bottom end of these using a simple tool to spread the sides apart. Other issues existed. The insulating plate holding the lever was loose. The rivet spread a little and both wires were separated from the posts.

To hammer the rivet flat for pressure the metal top had to be removed. Using a Dremel burr I worked the swaged ends and popped it off. The coil slipped off and three tabs held the coil insert was removed too. With both sides of the rivet exposed used a steel plate as a back and tapped it back to shape. 


Then the reverse, installing the cylinder insert and steaking the three tabs. The top of the coil had a worn paper insert I just supported it with electrical tape and recut the hole with a paper hole cutter. Placed the coil in resoldered the ends to the fittings.


























































The top or the coil test fined. It will pull.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The drivers.*

Surely the drivers are fine. The side rods are on. Wait they look a little stressed. They do not like to turn. Take a look.










One gear tooth off. For some reason the driver was removed and installed incorrectly.

So the putty knives come out and the axle is punched out over the suspended frame.

The driver was a little loose so used epoxy when I reinstalled it and let it sit overnight. These are the washer spacers I used when I pressed it back together.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*A little clean up*

I did remove and clean the side rods. The rest of the rods are connected to the frame to be dealt with later. I used a little oil on a stone and worked the piece flat.



















This is the armature.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*A look at the frame*

I finished the bottom of the reverse unit and installed it. I used 26 gage wire on new finer brackets from Jeff Kane. The motr tested fine. I like to clean the armature first and test the motor after removing the e unit. That part went well.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is the last piece for the motor. I had a spare assembly in stock. It was the easiest one I ever installed. Placing the tabs on one side into the frame slots Lines up the assembly.
On this part there is an orientation, one tab end was smaller. I use a spreading tool and poke the tabs into the slots. This time was easy because the wheels are set apart and no frame rivets were close. I set the end tabs first.


----------



## Guest (May 8, 2019)

You're doing a nice job on this loco, T-Man.


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Fantastic. This is a very cool posting. I love stuff like this. These are very cool old locos, too. They seem special.

I love stuff like this.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

The 221 is a fabulous loco ... one of my favorites. I did a fun redo on mine a while back.

Hey, I have some used but serviceable drive rod / valve gear parts, if you need them. They are yours for the asking.

I like your home-made frame spreader tool (to install the fiber pickup plate). I've used needle-nose pliers in the past, but your trick to grind in a flat-shoulder to "grab" the sideplates is brilliant!

Enjoy!

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thank you guys it's all fun.


This is a very inexpensive snap ring tool. The mod wasn't to hard to do. It works well but some frames have very little give. So little that in the past I shaved the tabs to fit them in.


This engine needed so much I thought it would be interesting. Some kind of record for me, anyways. It works great on the track.


----------



## WildcatRR (Jul 28, 2013)

Excellent job T-Man. Having worked on two 221's myself I kinda know what you went through. Great post. Keep up the great work.


----------



## Dieseler (Jan 29, 2014)

Enjoyed reading this thread and seeing the pictures . Thanks for taking the time to show us .


----------



## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Very nice! Particularly enjoyed seeing you clean the side rods on a stone. Don't think any of my stones are that flat anymore!:thumbsup:


----------



## Guest (May 10, 2019)

This really is fascinating. Thanks for taking us along for the ride.

Emile


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

T-Man said:


> ...
> 
> This is a very inexpensive snap ring tool. The mod wasn't to hard to do. It works well but some frames have very little give. So little that in the past I shaved the tabs to fit them in.


Very educational Dr. -Man.

I just did a rudimentary test using needle nose on my 248 motor frame. That test suggests it won't spread enough to insert a new fiber board. 

The 248's original fiber board is intact and solid. But a roller - one half of the collector assembly - is missing. I do see a way I can use a 3 mm screws and nuts to attach a new collector assembly to the existing fiber board.

Any other advice is welcome ...


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Mike, There is actually a frame spreader tool (ST350-FST), The FST stands for frame spreader tool. Tender.com; Jeff Kane sells them for $25+ shipping. It’s a little tricky to get the hang of using it, but with patience, it does work. I’ve used it on a few collector plates for my 248, 1615, 1688 + 1689’s. Trying to solder another roller onto an older plate is iffy. Buy yourself a replacement plate, and file down the tabs on one side of the plate, enough to ease the one side back in to the slots. It’s kind of trial & error method. The tabs on the new plate can be shortened just a little to make installation easier. Go for it!!:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

teledoc said:


> Mike, There is actually a frame spreader tool (ST350-FST), The FST stands for frame spreader tool. Tender.com; Jeff Kane sells them for $25+ shipping. It’s a little tricky to get the hang of using it, but with patience, it does work. I’ve used it on a few collector plates for my 248, 1615, 1688 + 1689’s. Trying to solder another roller onto an older plate is iffy. Buy yourself a replacement plate, and file down the tabs on one side of the plate, enough to ease the one side back in to the slots. It’s kind of trial & error method. The tabs on the new plate can be shortened just a little to make installation easier. Go for it!!:smilie_daumenpos:


The existing fiber board is solid. And I can get a small pair of forceps to hold a threaded insert nut while turning a screw through the Lionel nameplate, new roller assembly and the fiber board. That will be my first attempt. Filing down the tabs would be my next choice.


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Mike, I just wanted give you the long term alternative, as you may need to replace other plates. As mentioned, the spreader tool is a little tricky, but I’ve had good results.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Millstonemike said:


> Very educational Dr. -Man.
> 
> I just did a rudimentary test using needle nose on my 248 motor frame. That test suggests it won't spread enough to insert a new fiber board.
> 
> ...



My 248, I removed the plate and installed repro pieces. The new roller just riveted to the plate. I used the old nameplate too.


It will be difficult to remove the plate without destroying it.

The 248 frame is stronger than the 221.


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

T-man, YOU NEED A BIGGER HAMMER!!!!
Some frames are less forgiving than others, and don’t like to spread. That’s when you wind up destroying the old fiber board, trying to remove it. Those are the frames that necessitate filing down the tabs on the replacement, making it easier to install.


----------



## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Here's the PROPER tool, You could probably make one easy enough!









If you've ever done any manual transmission work (or Automatic) then you already have a tool. This one is Snap-On but others are similar and cheaper!

















:smokin:


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It's a pleasure to read the positive comments! Thanks!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ahh! I LIKE the frame spreader tool ... simple U with tapped hole/screw on one side. I've gotta remember that for "next time". Looks easy enough to make something like that! (I've always used the needle-nose style pliers route.)

Thanks, guys ... great info here!

TJ


----------



## e021911 (Sep 20, 2016)

I trim the middle tab on one side and slip the 3 tabs on the other side into the slots. Then use the I slip spreader into one END and start spreading. I get a better grip going in through the end then trying to go in the top. Pop the end tap in and go to the other END. Make sure the trimmed center tab is at the slot and your done.
Remember to solder the lead wire to the pickup plate before you start.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

e021911 said:


> Remember to solder the lead wire to the pickup plate before you start.



:goofball:


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Another 221, another story*

This 221 had an accident and the top screw bent between the shell and frame. It had to be drilled out











What I did was index the screw with a carbide bit. I started with a 7/64th drill. With the screw threads gone I went to an 11/64 drill and went deep into the head. The stopping short of the frame I went with a 9/64th drill and soon enough a crack developed. With a little more drilling the head popped off.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow ... that must have been some thump-whack to bend the screw like that. Thank goodness there was no other apparent damage to the shell and motor? Quite lucky, actually!

Nice surgery, T-Man!

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Pics of the tender*

The axle turned into a hockey stick


----------



## Glen Sr (May 16, 2019)

Great idea. I have had luck using snap ring pliers.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man ... lucky you! I think you've struck oil on that armature face! Feeling like ol' Jed Clampett, I bet! 



TJ


----------



## Glen Sr (May 16, 2019)

Great info from everyone. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it.

Have a great weekend everyone.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

tjcruiser said:


> T-Man ... lucky you! I think you've struck oil on that armature face! Feeling like ol' Jed Clampett, I bet!
> 
> 
> 
> TJ


They don't get much worse. It cleaned up well. It works fine now.


----------



## MDJetsFan (Dec 23, 2015)

*221 to 1688*

My 1688 looks awfully like your 221. I've rebuilt mostly lionel post wars to date 2025 (several times), 2055, 2056 etc but never anything this old. I can't get the wheels off they crumble when you exert pressure on them ala the older trains I referenced. Any tips, ideas, anything would be greatly appreciated


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Normally the older wheels in prewar days have deterioration in the pewter and need replacing. The 221 and 1688 are a different cast and last longer. All I do is support the wheel with two putty knives and punch the shaft down with a drift pin.


The pictures are in post three. The 1688 is discussed in detail in the Tinplate Forum.


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

MD, If you are referring to locos like the 1688, your best bet is to get a very reliable wheel puller. One of the best is a “Timko Wheel Puller”. I will edit this post later, on how to order one. The price is $39.95 plus shipping about $8. Search “Timko wheel puller”, to see what one looks like. Is there a specific reason you need to remove the wheels?? I know the 1688 inside and out, and can answer any question you have. I own over 20 of them, mainly because of body mold variations, or the 3 different motors you will find in the 1688’s.

Timko site is www.timkorepairdepot.com, accepts checks or money orders ONLY. Price quoted above.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

One thing about wheel removal. Do the non gear side, in other words remove the non gear wheel and leave the gear on the axle.

It is critical to place the wheels/drivers right on, to the tooth for the rods to work and each side is quartered (45 degrees off from the other side. Search quartering for more information.


Pressing can be done in a vise and the wheels need to be supported. Wheel cups are used here but I use 3/8 inch washers super glued together. I do use a piece of slim stock that acts as a spacer to prevent jamming Having a spacer takes the guess out of how far to press.


Also with only one axles removed, it will give you access to remove the armature. It must be an end axle not the center


----------



## MDJetsFan (Dec 23, 2015)

Hey guys thanks for the quick response sorry I took so long it started with family and then I couldn't find the engine I had taken it to a show to ask some people about how to get the wheels off and today I remembered doing that and found the engine

The problem is the wheels only turn from 9 o'clock to 10'clock whether by hand or engine. I had a similar problem and the grease had turned to rocks and once I cleaned it out it ran great. Would love any ideas you had.

Will try your suggestions and get back to you. Again sorry for the delayed response.


----------



## MDJetsFan (Dec 23, 2015)

Worked like a charm, the gears on the wheels chipped and the chips were in the gears, so I have to get new wheels any idea where, my parts guy says he doesn't have any? Strangest thing the power wire from the pick-up was taped off and stuffed in the bottom of the engine. It was taped with that really old black tape that was like cloth, I'm guessing it had been like that for 30 years

One other problem on yet another 2025 the wire from the pickup was replaced by a solder job on the outside of the engine so I need to pop the pins to open up the engine and they will not pop. I have disc brake expander that has never failed to pop those pop pins till now. Any ideas. More importantly thanks for the 1688 help I really appreciated everybodys help


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Several sources for wheels. I'd suggest you contact The Train Tender (Jeff Kane). Great guy, big inventory of stuff.

Cheers,

TJ


----------

