# top surface options



## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

ok, so after 20 years of a necessity break i'm finaly going to have RR layout again  i was leaning towards N but stopped by hobby store to see that in person and i'm glad i did, HO it is
i still have no dedicated room but 4x7 in garage (attached insulated but not heated) is better then nothing.. the 4'x7' however is going to be foldaway to the wall attached by door hinges on the 4' side to a base that is going to be lowered when folded (almost to the floor to accomodate for 7 feet of height ). the vertically adjustable base is going to slide on wall bolted uni-strut. there will be 6 to 12 inch clearance to wall between surface and wall in folded position
the "bench" itself is a 4*7 frame made with 2x4's (2x3 is probably enough but i have bunch of 2x4 leftover from other projects ) - 3 or 4, 7 foot beams and about 4 4 foot ones across, i got good at doing slot joints so it should have nice and rigid.

so now that you have somewhat of a clue of what i want to build a question to which i couldn't find answer yet (read through forum for several hours yesterday, honest. perhaps i missed it.) - what would you say i should use for top surface? 
first i was thinking to make the top surface out of cedar siding planks (interlocking)- it is very light but rigid and pleasure to work with (i like cedar lots) but will have those gaps.
i already have 4*8 chip board so i was thinking to use that or do i absolutely have to go with sandwich wood?
somewhere i read about people who use pink insulation foam board for their top most surface. if i use that can i guess i can get by with a thinner laminate sheet and glue the pink foam to that. bad idea? given the fact i will have to have the layout vertically at a times can rails be reliably fastened to pink foam preferably without glue? and as far as i understand foam base eliminates the need for cork roadbed.

what do you think? any other ideas? input is welcome, 

thanks!


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## Lester Perry (Nov 7, 2008)

My railroad is not on a sheet. I used 1/4 inch Luan to put the track on. Don't tell anyone I did that. I did this 10 to 12 years ago and no problems as of now. It is light wieght so it should work well with what you are wanting to do.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

hmmm, this is the first time i encounter the term Luan. 
did a quick search and from what i understand it is basically compressed particles sandwitched between 2 sheets of veneer instead of layers of veneer perpendicular to each other.
i'd guess it will be less susceptible to warping then straight up sandwich.

what is the distance between the supports on your bench? isn't it flexing in? or is it not as important as i imagine?

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to expand on original question what do you think about use of cork and specifically use of cork in my application (hangin vertically when folded).
i'd guess it will be good to use on not glass somooth chip board but then...

also kinda stupid question but still - when you nail the track to glued cork surface is the nail short or is it going all the way through into the wood (i'd think that ). i can't seem to find a concrete answer...


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## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

For some construction I have used a typical open benchwork then applied a sheet of Homasote on top. Homasote is a dense fiberboard made up of things like recycled egg cartons etc. Holds nails and such pretty well and is a good surface to glue to. Not the lightest thing available but has really good sound dampening qualities as well. Couple that with some cork roadbed and your layout will be silent


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## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

Actually Homasote is the company but I'm not sure of the exact product. I'm sure other companies make it as well and is probably available at building supply stores.

Anyone else want to back me up on this one??


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## Lester Perry (Nov 7, 2008)

Two Rail I have never used Homasote so I don't know much about it.
tankist if you wish to see how I did it go to my Website http://lesterperry.webs.com/ Go to photo gallery, in the beginning.
I know this is not what you are planning, I used 1X3 firring strips on 16" center. I am not going to get into how to build what you are speaking of as I have never done that. Maybe someone else can help you there.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

For HO you can glue 1 or 2 inch foam to 1by 3 board framing. You will have to glue the track for lifting up to the storage position. Homasote is a compressed cardboard firm but has some give. It was mainly a wall board before sheet rock. .I am using a pressboard or underlayment. It is halfway between homasote and particleboard.If you are using screws to hold the track pressboard is ok Homasote is not since it will be tilted You don't go with particleboard or plywood unless you want a table to stand on.The noise level for those two in the larger scales is undesireable. Two inch foam is stiff and has more possibilities for landscaping.
S0 do you want, screws, scenery, or a tough table?


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

hmmm... table vs RR bench... got it
i guess i was under initial impression that surface needs to be as sturdy as possible. thanks for putting things in perspective.


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## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

Yeah I would go for as light and sturdy as possible. Unless you are putting 300lbs of plaster on your layout, go as light as possible. That way when you need to move the layout it's not a major pain.

Let us know what direction you go in.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Ok, I saw this recently and had to find it . A layout made with foam by Buckeye Riveter of CTT forum. This is his home page The pictures will provide inspiration.


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## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

Also if you have more cash than patience or tools check this site out:

http://www.miannebenchwork.com/

Pre-made benchwork  Looks nice.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

thanks t-man, that explains a lot. although i still have some concerns. what if i or someone leans on the thing by accident? not sure how much this foam will hold... i think at this point i know what i'm going to do (thin sheet of something from homedepot inderneath foam)

and inspirational it is. very much so 
i have this suspicion that wife is not totally impartial to this. perhaps if she warms up to the idea we could eventually use our smallest room for something similar.



tworail said:


> Also if you have more cash than patience or tools check this site out:
> http://www.miannebenchwork.com/
> Pre-made benchwork  Looks nice.


interesting to see how the pros do it. but then the point is kind off lost, no? IMHO, this is somewhat similar buying live fish and taking it to a fishing trip


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## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

Yup. However this company exists for a reason.. I am sure there are people who don't particularly like (or perhaps lack the necessary skills or time) to get proper benchwork in place. They may be more interested in scenery, operations, etc.

I would say it's more like going to a trout farm, sticking your line in the pool and netting fish after fish


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

With foam you have 1 by 3 cross members underneath. To get away with the accidental leaning you decorate it to the hilt and leave no room to lean. By looking at a landscape you want to admire the view. 
I would invest in a mechanical arm for long reaches.
Whatever you decide we want to know!!!

Nice Site Two RAIL!!:thumbsup:


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## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

I remember reading in an old MR issue about a fellow who had to combat people leaning against the layout edge.. he fabricated fencing made of upside down pins (pointy edge up) so any unwelcome leaning was quickly retracted 

Hope he had a supply of band-aids on hand!


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

tworail said:


> I remember reading in an old MR issue about a fellow who had to combat people leaning against the layout edge.. he fabricated fencing made of upside down pins (pointy edge up) so any unwelcome leaning was quickly retracted
> 
> Hope he had a supply of band-aids on hand!


 how on earth he though about that. oh well.

did some work on bench today. frame that going to hold the surface is complete, e height adjustable and articulating retention to wall is next.i guess i should start project progress thread. well perhaps later when i have something to show


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## tworail (Apr 13, 2006)

Yes please start a project thread and put up pictures!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The greatest thing about digital is that film is cheep. 
I will have to keep in mind to take pictures of these materials. Maybe vist Home Depot. I wonder if they would let me take pictures?


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

no track laid yet so technically i'm not RR'ing yet, but, made some progress on my bench despite couple disruptions.
i will open separate progress thread but only when i actually get to lay track.
the question "do you want a RR layout or do you want a sturdy table" was an eye opener - i want a RR layout on a sturdy table  i never going to compromise on sturdiness. the first picture was supposed to be me standing on my contraption, but i'll pass on that.

so, i prepared and assembled the frame yesterday. didn't go all fancy on joints this time, wanted it done already so just simple slots (i don't like when fasteners bear load that they don't have to).

cut in half and attached uni-strut rails to wall. built vertical sliding base, marked and attached hinges. attached "offset plate" onto the bench itself. changed the initial design a bit and wanted to reinforce it.
originaly wanted to put it all together same day but i will need another pair of hands for that - the table is quite heavy. also i'm not quite happy with the sliding base attachment, the of the shelf uni-strut hardware is not realy working as i wanted it to so i will be looking to improve the sliding part before i put it all up. 

but i'm rather happy how it all holds together - all the screws experience shear load rather then pull i would think i have even more load capacity so this thing shouldn't collapse on itself. if i to put 2' pink foam (and that's the plan) i left with 6 inches vertically to work with, meaning i will be able to put in overpasses and not crash anything into wall when folding. conveniently accessible underside of the table will make wiring and such easy to work with.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Construction Ahead !*

It looks like you have plan. So you went with chip board. :thumbsup:


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

ouch, i shouldn't have posted anything that late,was half asleep. was probably hard to read. edited a bit 

i think this topic got to logical end - i found my top surface  moving on.

thanks a lot guys. i know it might seem i asked question and then still went with my own idea but did consider all sugestions. i actually looked at homasote sheet and couple other engineered sheets. 
and then i realized that i'm realy over thinking it, all of them would work fine, and just went with what i already have (ive seen benches that use that as a top as well), saved 30$ lol. sometimes when i over think my projects i end up with nothing, i don't want this to happen this time.


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