# Is my 1957 Ladies Lionel 2037 a fake



## toot1961 (Dec 13, 2012)

Good morning everyone. 
I had always wanted a Ladies 2037 when I was younger and now that I am old, I seized the opportunity to buy a set at auction. After getting it home in inspecting it closer, I feel I may have been duped.

The rear truck had come off the tender and the broken mounting clip was banging around inside the car. We took the bottom off the tender and noticed the part number 1130-27. The only information I could find about that part number was as it was relating to the less rare black version. I looked a little closer at the lettering on "Lionel Lines" lettering on the sides and I could see what looks to be a second set of lettering underneath the pink paint. This set is in excellent condition with only a small amount of chipping. Where it is chipping it is down to the bare metal. No black.

So my question to you all, is there a way to know for certain that I didn't just pay a lot of good money for a fake? Any distinguishing differences from the black and pink versions other than just the color? My main concern is the engine and I can see no part number and really don't want to take it apart.

I hope you can help and I hope you give me good news. 

Thanks in advance.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It has to look like this.

The 1130 is a tender shell. Note the coal is black so the tender is painted. Original??? I can't say. The lettering appears different from an 1130 tender. I checked the site and did not see a black 1130t to show you.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Many Lady Lionel's were repainted black but not the reverse. This is one of the most forged locomotive sets. The lettering was heat stamped so If this was a re lettered & painted black locomotive the original lettering would show through. In a careful inspection of the lettering look to see if the letters are heat stamped into the paint. Thats the hardest thing to forge.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Read the last line in T mans link.

Credible forgeries exist of this locomotive, so the collector should be cautious when purchasing this engine.

Read the first line too,
The set did not sell, and in a desperate attempt to sell at least the engine portion of these sets many dealers repainted this locomotive *BLACK*. All of this combined to make one of the most sought after collectibles of the post-war period.

It very well could be that someone painted it black to sell it, then years later someone found pink paint under the black and repainted it pink.





Can you post some pictures of it?
Around the number too.


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## toot1961 (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for responding guys. You can tell the lettering is stamped on there. On both the engine and the tender. But I cannot find a stitch of black paint anywhere on here. The only thing showing through the chips is bare metal. 

I can tell you, if this is a forgery, someone did a beautiful job. We have a couple of hobby shops here in town. Maybe I could take it to one and they could take a gander at it for me. I did not research this before buying...I just kept raising my paddle. But even if I had looked at this closely without a loupe, I would have thought it was real.

Thanks again for the help.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Buying for a collection or investmant is a hobby in itself. That's why they have organizations devoted to that.

Somethiing that is seldom mentioned is the fact that Lionel produced replacement parts. In collecting condition is everthing. If you have a mint piece is it original or a bunch of replacement parts ? You can't tell.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Do you plan to sell it? If not, put your fear to rest, and simply enjoy it for how nice it looks ... regardless of its purity.

In his Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains, David Doyle says:

"2037-500 ... The cab number of this engine could be either rubber- or heat-stamped; there is no difference in value or rarity"

TJ


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## toot1961 (Dec 13, 2012)

Well I would enjoy it more if were not a fake but mainly because of what we paid for it. Close to 5 bills...  Live and learn.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I think buying a "collectible" is always risky. How do you prove authenticity? On collectible cars, they make a big deal out of "matching numbers." But the forgers can make the numbers match by changing the number on the engine, for example. This is one reason I avoid collectible items. Collectible baseball cards? How do you prove authenticity? Carbon dating? I buy stuff that is not in collectible condition and play with it. I have a few items that are in perfect condition, some that haven't been out of the box in 35 years. But these aren't much fun. 

I bought a 75th anniversary set NIB and it is still in the box with the plastic wrap on it. Was it a good investment? I paid $112.50 for it in 1975.


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