# What’s wrong with this post



## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I’m not really sure why the following is considered wrong:

What happens to the trademarks, name and other IP when MTH closes and sells off piecemeal.

Currently Atlas has agreed to purchase the molds for the diesels and rolling stock, not sure it is just Premier or RK or both. They also acquired the license to either produce or just use the DCS system. That leaves the steamer lines,perhaps RK, buildings, track systems, accessories and other electronic devices like transformers.

So if the steamer lines are sold off, RK and all the other lines as well will there be competing companies with the access to the name, IP etc. That would set up a very interesting scenario.

Would those who purchase a product line market it like Bachmann does with the Williams line. “Williams by Bachmann”. Will it be “MTH” by Atlas or has that already taken place with their first offering a passenger line.

Any ideas and BTW does anyone see anything wrong with this post. It is train related and in my opinion not inflammatory.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Have you been reprimanded? I'm not sure why you think this is controversial. We can speculate about what remains of MTH but we don't know. There has been no announcement regarding the future of RailKing or the steamers, etc. so we don't know if the name "MTH" will carry on.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

beachhead2 said:


> Have you been reprimanded? I'm not sure why you think this is controversial. We can speculate about what remains of MTH but we don't know. There has been no announcement regarding the future of RailKing or the steamers, etc. so we don't know if the name "MTH" will carry on.


Not here but I posted it on the other forum and it got immediately delete. When I sent an e-mail asking why I was basically told to F off. Also they insist I subscribe to the mag.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

TJSmith said:


> Not here but I posted it on the other forum and it got immediately delete. When I sent an e-mail asking why I was basically told to F off. Also they insist I subscribe to the mag.


Yeah, they can be a little arbitrary and draconian.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

No worries on steam or most of the remaining MTH O scale. Former employess are taking over that and also parts plus DCS. Source includes one the principles involved. As for what the divisions already sold off not sure what they will be called. I suspect the buyers will continue to mention MTH but thats just speculation.

Pete


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## Streamliner (Feb 21, 2021)

To the OP, try posting your topic on OGR. The crazies who run that site would have to call an emergency meeting of all their old FAxT, wannabe “executives,“ to decide what sort of punishment they should dole out to you. They can never be too careful, or someone on the boards over there might actually enjoy themselves and they can’t have that!

May everyone here have a wonderful Easter,

Allen Drucker


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

TJSmith said:


> Not here but I posted it on the other forum and it got immediately delete. When I sent an e-mail asking why I was basically told to F off. Also they insist I subscribe to the mag.


So did you subscribe to the magazine? 

Mainly here, is just, No talk about Politics. 
Though some may try to add politics, the threads end up in jail quickly.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

To be blunt, they are asses over there, with a lot of zeal and apparently lots time on their heavy hands to edit their forum with those heavy hands, and perhaps an exaggreated sense of their own importance. But it is their forum, and their mag, so I just mostly avoid both. I dont' subscribe either: the magzine is even more heavily a pro-advertiser forum for news, very biased and so I hardly expect it to provide objective news and infomration about our hobby.

To answer your question, I expect that Atlas will stick with its own label on models it brings out using the MTH tooling, just like Lionel does now with tooling it got from K-Line years ago. The 4-6-6 tank engine released some time back was made with tooling originally made by K-Line, but now tooling owned by Lionel. Lionel called a Lionel product, not a "K-Line by Lionel" product. I expect Atlas will do the same type of approach.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Streamliner said:


> To the OP, try posting your topic on OGR. The crazies who run that site would have to call an emergency meeting of all their old FAxT, wannabe “executives,“ to decide what sort of punishment they should dole out to you. They can never be too careful, or someone on the boards over there might actually enjoy themselves and they can’t have that!
> 
> May everyone here have a wonderful Easter,
> 
> Allen Drucker


The forum that the OP was talking about was OGR.....


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Big Ed said:


> Though some may try to add politics, the threads end up in jail quickly.


As should all politicians....


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## Streamliner (Feb 21, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> The forum that the OP was talking about was OGR.....


You got me, I had not caught that. My bad.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Atlas bought the H.O. scale True Line Trains operation, and as far as I know, they are starting to release those cars under the Atlas name.....no indication that they are the old True Line Trains cars....


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Not unusual for a thread to be deleted at OGR. Or to have one closed that you are getting ready to respond to.

I posted a thread on OGR about LED lighting for MTH premier passenger cars on the 3-Rail Scale forum. An hour or so later it wasn’t there. I thought maybe I had forgotten to hit the PUBLISH button so I posted it again. It disappeared again, but not before someone (not an OGR staffer) said it should be in the Electrical forum. So, I posted it a third time (in the Electrical forum) and it finally stuck. It’s bad enough that they delete threads frequently, but even worse that they don’t bother to give you a reason for the deletion. In my case I figured out that it had been deleted twice, because Alan thought it should be in the Electrical forum and not 3-rail Scale. Over here, John would have just moved it.

OGR gets paid by sponsors (Lionel, MTH, Scaled Automation, etc.) and if you post something that might offend one of the sponsors, there is a good chance it will be deleted. In your case, Alan probably thought your thread might offend MTH.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Bob - There are people over there with way too much time and not enough to do, when they spend time worrying about such things. They really ought to get a life and something meaningful to do. And in many cases they are wrong, too. Your experience with that LED lighting is a perfect example. Yes, one could argue that it goes in an electrical section because it deals with wiring lights, but LED lighting and replacement is also both an esthetic issue, what and how it changes the look, and a manufacturer issue for the scale - all about MTH. I'd want it where I would look for it: in the O-Guage section.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> There are people over there with way too much time and not enough to do...


Too much time on their hands? I don’t think so. 😉 They always say they are too busy to let you know why your thread was deleted. Too busy to edit a post so they just delete it.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Old_Hobo said:


> Atlas bought the H.O. scale True Line Trains operation, and as far as I know, they are starting to release those cars under the Atlas name.....no indication that they are the old True Line Trains cars....


Not exactly... they bought _some_/a majority of the TLT models/tooling, not the whole company/operation. There are certain things they didn't get or at least were conspicuously absent from the purchase announcement.

Whether Atlas uses any of the old MTH branding (and likely not considering their past history of acquisitions) would depend on whether they actually acquired the rights to the name or not. It sounds to me like the MTH assets are basically being "parted out" to those companies that are interested. Atlas acquiring some of the O scale assets, ScaleTrains acquired the HO assets, etc.

But no, you won't have multiple companies bringing out models under the same name, because a brand is also a specific asset, that will either be acquired or retained by a specific party.

A number of years ago Walthers bought all the Life-Like trains assets, and the L-L "Proto 2000" brand become "Walthers Proto".

Atlas bought the various plastic rolling stock models from Branchline Trains, but released them under their own brand and Branchline Trains actually still exists but focused their product line on their laser-cut wood structure kits.

Walthers sold their N scale rolling stock to Atlas, which naturally just gets re-released under Atlas's brand since both companies are still active.

TLT is essentially defunct, but Atlas acquired a good chunk of their tooling, but not necessarily all of it. These are coming out under Atlas's standard branding.

I imagine the same for the MTH acquisitions, unless they fully acquired the rights to the "RailKing" brand name. There's a "chance" they could use that to split up some product lines in their O-scale catalog, but I would not expect to ever see the "MTH" brand anywhere...


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## peterbilt379 (Jan 4, 2013)

I have to agree with Lee. They are really a bunch of [email protected]#%*#@S over on OGR. Got pssed at me cause of the american flag in my profile. Being a, vet It pssed me off that they threw me off. Did me a favor.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

A bit harsh, I think. While it’s completely understandable that you got pissed, I see their forum as a way to support the printed magazine. The print media is a tough industry these days. I have lost several of my auto magazines in the last few years and my favorite monthly has turned into a bi monthly piece of junk.

I once went to work for a guy that was known to be a jerk. Many employees hated working there, but one said he had no problems with the boss. He told me to just know what the guidelines are and stay within them. Same thing with OGR. Don’t trash or offend their paid sponsors. Don’t use words like pissed or lash up.

It’s actually a good resource for fixes, tips and tricks. But if you want complain about a problem with one of their sponsor’s products, do it at MTF, not OGR.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

cv_acr said:


> Not exactly... they bought _some_/a majority of the TLT models/tooling, not the whole company/operation. There are certain things they didn't get or at least were conspicuously absent from the purchase announcement


I stand corrected......I shouldn’t have used the word “operation”......to clarify, here is the actual announcement that was on the Atlas web-site....


> Hillside, NJ – Atlas Model Railroad Company, Inc. is proud to announce that it has purchased certain molds and tooling from True Line Trains of Ontario, Canada.
> 
> Models in this acquisition include in HO scale the C-Liner and RS18 Locomotives, the Slab Side Covered Hopper, the 50' Newsprint Freight Car, the Fowler Stock Car, the Bulkhead Flat Car, the CN/CP Caboose and the 40' AAR Box Car. In N scale, Atlas has acquired the C424 and GP9 Locomotives.
> 
> ...


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I would not have categorized my post as a complaint but rather one seeking information. Now if I had said if MTH were a profitable company they would have had a buyer or the ability to set up an ESOP. But like Weaver that is not the case.


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## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

I replied to a post on the OGR forum wishing a fellow member to get well, he was having health problems and really wanted to get back to work on his layout. The dictators over there deleted my post... and my forum membership with zero explanation. Ridiculous. I canceled my subscription & I only read OGR at the newsstand now and throw it back on the shelf. And any books they may have published, I pick those up secondhand. They no longer get any of my dollars.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

peterbilt379 said:


> ... Got pssed at me cause of the american flag in my profile. Being a, vet ...


👍 Perhaps the "[email protected]#%*#@s" forgot_ why _they're able to freely run their business and the forum.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

peterbilt379 said:


> I have to agree with Lee. They are really a bunch of [email protected]#%*#@S over on OGR. Got pissed at me cause of the american flag in my profile. Being a, vet it pissed me off that they threw me off. Did me a favor.


Yeah, O-gauge Nazi's, that's for sure. OGR for Elitists, or "OGRE", as I now refer to them. I got permanently booted off of there a few months ago for complaining about one of their own, a forumer who's always "Hot under the collar". Continuously insults newcomers by referring to them as "idiots" and "morons", because of newbie posting errors, which half the time isn't entirely their fault. I also have a sneaking hunch he is a self-appointed hallway monitor, and reports posts to the moderators because something doesn't meet one or more of their myriad of confusing and/or under-defined rules and regulations for posting. 

I also dropped their on-line, digital magazine subscription in 2019, plus I didn't sign up to become a "supporting member" or whatever they call it, when they came up with that money-making scheme. That probably didn't help my situation out, either. I look for the day when they require it of all forumers over there. I could go on and on with a bunch other gripes too, but I only took one "Happy Pill" today. No sense in burning it off prematurely.  

Yup, they did me a favor too.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

While not reading completely into whatever went into the Atlas/MTH discussions, Atlas did not purchase a product line but rather just parts and pieces of one.

So, MTH has to now find a buyer or buyers to purchase the rest after the lines have been canabilized.

Could selling off just parts of a product line be a sign of desperation. Also MTH seems to be acting like it’s just another day by continuing to produce more and more products. Maybe they were already in the pipeline prior to the announcement to shut down.

TrainWorld in NY on the other hand is advertising and sending e-mails out with the message “Get them now before they are gone forever” while Mr. Muffin has started to run auctions. 

The latter has got to be severely affected by the MTH closure since a good bit of his business is with MTH although he does have the Lionel line as a fall back position.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

From the horror stories I'm reading here, it's a wonder the OGR site even exists. 

They sound like a big group of 'good-ol'-boy's-club' elitist snobs.


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## Streamliner (Feb 21, 2021)

I got into it with them over the avatar rules. The ONLY custom avatar you can use is a “recognizable“ photo of YOURSELF. An American Flag? NO! A photo of a train? NO! As a long time retailer, who actually sold their magazine in in my store for decades, I wanted to use the same avatar photo I use here, but NO! I told them that I did not want to look at a bunch of photos of old men—like ME—but no soap. They blew me off. I can’t remember just what issue got me booted off OGR, but I really couldn’t care less. Model railroading and toy trains are supposed to be FUN! I don’t need some brown shirts telling me every few seconds what I can’t say or think. Ridiculous.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I sure miss your store....it was a highlight of my visits to L.A.....


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

While MTH may be still looking for buyers, for the time being what hasn’t been sold off will be taken over by existing MTH employees. That includes Premier steam, Railking, Parts, and DCS. Likely won’t be as prolific as before but maybe they will follow a new business model where the retailers and customers request whats made.

Thats said I doubt any new steam will be produced or anything requiring new dies so maybe just new road names of existing product????

Pete


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

TJSmith said:


> While not reading completely into whatever went into the Atlas/MTH discussions, Atlas did not purchase a product line but rather just parts and pieces of one.
> 
> So, MTH has to now find a buyer or buyers to purchase the rest after the lines have been canabilized.
> 
> ...


I dunno, but when smaller businesses (all kinds, not just model trains) get sold off, it very often seems like they get piecemealed out amongst multiple buyers, even though the sellers try at first to sell the business as a whole. For example, since Atlas favors diesels, it's no surprise to me that they are not interested in MTH steamers.

Personally, I hope ALL of MTH's tooling gets bought up, even if by multiple buyers. That way, us modelers will all benefit down the road by still being able to buy the products regardless of who's brand name ends up on them. And dealers like Mr. Muffin's can still offer the same merchandise, just under new & various brand names.


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## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

Streamliner said:


> I got into it with them over the avatar rules. The ONLY custom avatar you can use is a “recognizable“ photo of YOURSELF. An American Flag? NO! A photo of a train? NO! As a long time retailer, who actually sold their magazine in in my store for decades, I wanted to use the same avatar photo I use here, but NO! I told them that I did not want to look at a bunch of photos of old men—


Some of the gals pics on there look like they used to be old guys. Just sayin'. "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" as Jerry Seinfeld says. 😄


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Just a bunch of bitter old men that don't have anything better to do or anyone else to belittle.


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## KeithL (Mar 29, 2016)

Norton said:


> While MTH may be still looking for buyers, for the time being what hasn’t been sold off will be taken over by existing MTH employees. That includes Premier steam, Railking, Parts, and DCS.
> 
> Pete


Did MTH announce this re Premier steam and RailKing?


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Not yet. I wish they would to quiet down the speculation.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Norton said:


> Not yet. I wish they would to quiet down the speculation.


I have to wonder if they're deliberately not announcing anything to keep people talking. It's gotten to a point where it's getting ridiculous!


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

One thing I was wondering about. When MTH finally closes their doors, although they keep announcing new products, what happens to the resources on their web site like instruction manuals. Does that all go away.


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## Streamliner (Feb 21, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> I sure miss your store....it was a highlight of my visits to L.A.....


Thanks for that. I miss it as well. As it turned out, my selling it in May of 2007 when I did was a stroke of luck. Within a few months, we were in that huge recession and keeping that big place running would have been very difficult.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

My guess is they are making this up as they go and as circumstances dictate. No one in their right mind would have planned things this way . Hopefully those of you who own lots of MTH locos and DCS will be able to get some support and parts/service, but personally, I wouldn't be investing more money in MTH locos or DCS at this point in time.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

The story is constantly changing for sure. Last year it was announced DCS would continue run by two ex employees. The website to up in January. AFAIK DCS is still a go but now part of the new parts distributor. They do have a building and still setting up. Maybe we won't find anything else out until the old MTH actually closes up at the end of May.
As for parts, thats a problem no matter what you own if its over ten years old. Just as you have to do for K-Line and Weaver parts you have to do for older Lionel, 3rd Rail, and Williams. Adapt using what's still still available.
Pete


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## Streamliner (Feb 21, 2021)

I believe that Mike Wolf tried to sell the whole company, had no takers, so decided to break it up. I strongly believe that Mike made more money in the toy train/model railroad business than any other person in history, with the possible exceptions of JLC or the family that owned Marklin in Germany. He has absolutely nothing to lose here. He is breaking it up and taking the dollars where he can find them. If it all sells, great. If not, who knows where the remnants will end up, but he wants out, is getting out and is not allowing anything to slow down his retirement. I believe he is doing the right thing. We may not like it, but that‘s the way the cookie crumbles.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Not sure Mike is getting out completely. Its been said he wants to keep his hands on DCS development. What does one do with their time these days? Far fewer options than just 18 months ago.

Pete


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Norton said:


> Not sure Mike is getting out completely. Its been said he wants to keep his hands on DCS development. What does one do with their time these days? Far fewer options than just 18 months ago.
> 
> Pete


When MTH announced that Mike would be retiring and closing the company, I wishfully predicted that Mike’s retirement would be like Walter Matuch’s of RMT. Looks like my wish is coming true.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TJSmith said:


> One thing I was wondering about. When MTH finally closes their doors, although they keep announcing new products, what happens to the resources on their web site like instruction manuals. Does that all go away.


Excellent question, I have captured all the sound and chain files that exist on the current site, "just in case".


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Apparently, if the posts are to be believed, one of the two remaining techs in the MTH parts/service area is not signing on with the new parts/service business and the other more senior fellow is not a lock to sign on. Seems tenuous at best. I agree with the insight that Mike Wolf is doing what's needed so he can leave the business with minimum anger amongst the flock of loyal customers. I would be surprised if any of this "continuation" of bits and pieces of MTH (DCS/parts/service) survives beyond a year or two. Without a full line train company, DCS and PS3 will gradually enter history, rather than current production. Death by a thousand cuts. You have to have great faith to be buying PS3 or DCS equipment at the present moment, unless you can repair it yourself, or only plan to use them for a few years.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

neilblumberg said:


> ... Without a full line train company, DCS and PS3 will gradually enter history, rather than current production. Death by a thousand cuts. ...


I had thought that some DCC modules were compatible with MTH. That is, the DCC modules can be inserted into a loco in place of some (most/all?) of the electronics in an MTH loco to operate it's various functions. Such that your control system would also need to be DCC. I do know there are O-Scale DCC modules that purport to interface with MTH loco.'s. But as I run prewar conventional, I know little of the details.


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## Streamliner (Feb 21, 2021)

Yes. I don’t mean any disrespect to you folks who like all this digital stuff, but give me a good, old, Lionel 2343 Santa Fe F3 with a conventional E-unit and a ZW transformer, all proudly made in the USA.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Streamliner said:


> Yes. I don’t mean any disrespect to you folks who like all this digital stuff, but give me a good, old, Lionel 2343 Santa Fe F3 with a conventional E-unit and a ZW transformer, all proudly made in the USA.


A little to new for me.  I renovated a Lionel passenger set from the late 1920's. Presently renovating some passenger cars from the 1910's.

Note: I use the word "renovate" as I'm not restoring to the original colors. Rather my own desires.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Lee Willis said:


> To be blunt, they are asses over there.


Big ones


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## peterbilt379 (Jan 4, 2013)

Three cheers for "good ole" PW santa fe F3's . And all PW engines . Can still buy necessary parts, EZ to repair/diagnose. runs forever. Lee & Denny are correct about the big ones at OGR.


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Well, at least you got a reply from that bunch, which is more than we other exiles from that forum have received. 😜
Interesting thought there - who knows what handles the re-born MTH lines will have. We may be reduced to magnifying glasses and detective work to identify "old" MTH castings.
FW


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I got a reply because I sent an e-mail directly to Alan Arnold. Otherwise only not seeing the deleted post. I did not get an explanation.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

One thing I have noticed for a company going out of business they sure are producing a lot of stuff some of which is not anticipated to be available until the third quarter.

Everyday I get an e-mail from MTH with new products. Today it was RS3s in Long Island with an early buy price, perhaps direct from MTH , for $349.00


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Just noticed that the moderator at OGR edited the title of a thread for clarity and moved it to another forum. He also added a note to the post to explain the changes. First time I ever saw that at OGR.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

They have done that from time to time but they mostly just delete threads with no explanation. I’m surprised at all the posts in the wrong places and they have been making a point about that but not doing anything. Several examples, layout posts, electrical posts and others in the main forum instead of where they belong.


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## Refugee (Oct 2, 2019)

Questioned the need for all those sub-forums and earned the boot, thus my moniker here.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

TJSmith said:


> They have done that from time to time but they mostly just delete threads with no explanation. I’m surprised at all the posts in the wrong places and they have been making a point about that but not doing anything. Several examples, layout posts, electrical posts and others in the main forum instead of where they belong.


The moderator(s) may have excommunicated a fair amount too many heretics with their latest purge a few months ago, deleted a few too many threads with good information, started getting some heat over the deal from the head honcho, and are now cutting both newer erroneous posters and fellow good ol' boys some slack?

Dunno. That's my best guess for now, yours may vary.


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## peterbilt379 (Jan 4, 2013)

OGR is a cesspool!..Alan & Melvin are dictators. They say they welcome all vets but kick you off for having an american flag in your avitar? I always got a laugh when someone got into GRJ's case. He wouldn't take their BS. Give it right back to them. I don't care what they do over there I'll never go back there. RW


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