# Insulated Wheels?



## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Hello,

I am installing a new tender truck onto a tender that I am kitbashing. The front half of the tender already has the decoder and etc. installed on it, and the only thing that will attach to the rear truck will be the red negative wire from the decoder. It will get electrical pickup via copper wire which attaches to two of the three rear tender trucks. However, before I go ahead and attach it, I want to know which of the wheels are insulated. As you can see by the pictures, the wheels on one side are a black color and the ones are the other are more bronze.

Which set of wheels, therefore, are insulated?

Here are the pictures:









As you can see, the wheels on the right are a bronze color and those on the left are not. The middle axle will not have any electrical pickup to it and is inconsequential. 









Here is a closer view of the bronze wheel.









Here is a closer view of the black wheel.

For comparison, here are some images of the front tender wheels which is already hooked up:


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Do you have a MultiMeter? Put in on Ohms and one prob on the track and the other on the axle, that will tell you which side is being picked up. Do this on a spare piece of track that's not connected to anything. The 2 axle truck looks like intermountain? metal wheels. I don't recognize the 3 axle wheels since they have "cast" or ribbed wheels only on one side, seems strange.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, as Lemonhawk has said, a very simple
test. Probe the metal wheels and the metal
strip that contacts the axels. The other wheels
will likely be plastic.

The red wire goes to the metal wheels on the right side
of the tender, the black wire to the wheels on
the other side.

Don


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Lemonhawk said:


> Do you have a MultiMeter? Put in on Ohms and one prob on the track and the other on the axle, that will tell you which side is being picked up. Do this on a spare piece of track that's not connected to anything. The 2 axle truck looks like intermountain? metal wheels. I don't recognize the 3 axle wheels since they have "cast" or ribbed wheels only on one side, seems strange.


I don't have that unfortunately. Is there any other way to test which one is insulated?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You could use an auto build by soldering two wires to it.


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## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

Go to Harbor Freight or log on modeltrainstuff.com and get a centech multimeter for $10. Treat it well and it will last forever, I had one as a teen and it kept going for years untill one time I screwed up and checked resistance on a live circuit like a dummy.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Cen-Tech-69096-7-Function-Digital-Multimeter-p/cnt-69096.htm


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

Dreadnought said:


> I don't have that unfortunately. Is there any other way to test which one is insulated?


led and resistor


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Cycleops meant to say an auto tail light BULB...Connect
one side to a battery or the track power, connect
a wire to the other side. The test is the light will light
when there is an electric contact between the wheel and
the metal strip rubbing the axles. When it does you
have a metal wheel. 

Make sure when done that the truck with the red
wire has metal wheels on the right rail, the other
has metal wheels on the left rail.

The usual price of a multimeter at Harbor freight
is 4.95, but they often have them for free. A very
handy thing to have around the house for many
reasons. A must if you plan a model railroad hobby.

Don


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Why are 4 wires coming from the 2 axle truck? There is only one actual rail contact so one wire is all that should be necessary?


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## Odyknuck (Dec 31, 2015)

His decoder is in the tender so he needs to power the motor in the loco with the extra wires and driver wheels power pick up . not sure whats hes doing with headlight.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I missed that the truck was attached to the tender and the wires were from the tender not the truck.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

ED-RRR said:


> *[/6 matt]:* Hi __:smilie_daumenpos:__
> I will try to help out this beginner before gets over his head with many* [DCC]* problems..
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information.... but that has little to nothing to do with my original question. My question regarded wheel insulation, not decoder installation. At the risk of sounding rude, your post sounds a little condescending for my 'lack of experience'... If you have any information pertaining to wheel insulation, it would be very much appreciated.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

ED-RRR said:


> Definition of a *"Moron"..* (Internet Search)..
> 
> *(mo·ron)*
> A stupid person..
> ...


Please, never respond to any thread that I make again. I can barely read what you are typing because it looks like carnival vomit. You have not helped me one bit, and you are making my thread a breeding ground for ignorance and animosity. I have reported the post that I am replying to, and hopefully it will be taken down. Do not reply to this.

Thank you, Dreadnought.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

ENOUGH! Sorry your thread got crapped on Dreadnought, I deleted all the arguments. Please continue from here.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Sorry. That was probably my fault (and I will refrain from further comment to avoid a repeat of the behavior).


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

I would pick up a new set of wheels from north west short line than do electrical pickup from both tracks. 

http://www.nwsl.com/site/68f1f01885...http://nwsl.com/NWSL_Online_Catalog.html#2872


But a simple cheap multi meter is a handy tool. Most of the hobby work we do won't need a better meter.


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## ED-RRR (Jun 4, 2015)

*Sorry - Re-Do..*

*[Dreadnought]*
I know you requested for me not to post in your threads..
I have only posted what you originally requested..
There is no posting in this thread how to do required wire connections that you requested..



Dreadnought said:


> ...... and the only thing that will attach to the rear truck will be the red negative wire from the decoder.
> It will get electrical pickup via copper wire which attaches to two of the three rear tender trucks.
> However, before I go ahead and attach it, I want to know which of the wheels are insulated.
> 
> Which set of wheels, therefore, are insulated ?


The insulated wheel on each unit must have a plastic bushing between the axle and wheel..
This will prevent an electrical short between the (x2) track rails..

-








The [DCC] decoder has special wire colors that require the correct connecting locations..
If the red and black wires are reversed, the locomotive will operate in the wrong directions..
The "Red" wire #8 is on the "right side.. (Power)..
The "Black" wire #4 is on the "left side.. (Power)..
Take special note to connect the (x2) power wires on the correct sides..









Here are (x2) pictures how to connect the (x4) axles to the [DCC] decoder red and black wires..















......


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

ED-RRR said:


> *[Dreadnought]*
> 
> I know you requested for me not to post in your threads..
> 
> ...



If you find it is connected wrong you can reprogram the decoder for correct direction.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

If it's hard to see the insulation bushing between the metal axle and the wheels, an alternative [without a multi meter] is to use a 9v battery .. the non insulated side will spark with one wire to wheel and the other to the axle..this will show which side is 'live' when using a power pickup riding on the axle ...
some people use a smaller power pickup tab or wire directly touching the back side of the wheel, however this does not work as well on rib back wheel sets ..
edit: any low power source can be used, wall wart type, or even the accessory voltage source on a regular dc transformer supply to 'spark check" continuity, or even wire a small light bulb in series for visual indication ...


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## ED-RRR (Jun 4, 2015)

*Very (Very) Simple Testing Procedure..*

*Dreadnought:*
(#1)
I can see that you do *"Not" *have a multi meter..
You have to test for *"Continuity"..*
Each individual multi meter will function *"Differently" *and requires special settings and some electronics knowledge.. 



wvgca said:


> If it's hard to see the insulation bushing between the metal axle and the wheels, an alternative [without a multi meter]
> is to use a 9v battery .. the non insulated side will spark with one wire to wheel and the other to the axle..
> 
> or even the accessory voltage source on a regular dc transformer supply to 'spark check" continuity,
> or even wire a small light bulb in series for visual indication ...


*Dreadnought:*
(#2)
These are *"Stupid"* testing procedures..
The cheapest ($'s) will be this procedure..
- You will require a new "Tested" 9.V-DC "Battery".. (To Insure That There Is 9.V-DC)..
- You will require a 9.V-DC battery "Connector".. (To Connect The Wires)..









*Dreadnought:*
(#3)
This is a *"Very" *(very) simple testing procedure that is (100%) full proof..
Slowly pull the (x2) wheels *"Off"* the axle.. 
*"Only"* the wheel with the *"Insulated" *plastic bushing will come *"Off"..*








......


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

ED-RRR said:


> *Dreadnought:*
> (#1)
> I can see that you do *"Not" *have a multi meter..
> You have to test for *"Continuity"..*
> ...


Apparently you have problems reading posts that don't have things unusually highlighted and put in quotation marks for no reason. I told you earlier in the the thread, when you started a fight, to never respond to one of my threads again, for you are supremely unhelpful. Calling people who are actually trying to help 'stupid' is a good example of this.

Since you did not read that post apparently, I will repeat the same message: never respond to any thread I create again. I do not want any 'assistance' you can give, for it is not helpful, and, indeed, a hindrance.

Have a nice day, Dreadnought


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

Looked at your photos, and front and rear tender trucks appear to have differing wheel sets ..
you can probably hook up power pickups on the rear axle [or axles] and just try it ...
if your system shows a short, just reverse the rear truck [or swap sides on wheel sets ] ..
definitely not the best way to find out, but shouldn't hurt anything
sorry, no colored text or fancy pictures,


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

just wondering if you had a chance to get your tender wired up, and if it worked out okay for you?


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