# Operation Rescue from Hurricane Sandy.



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Operation Rescue from Hurricane Sandy.

A coworker was shoveling mud out of his Moms basement which got flooded.
When they finally got the water pumped out after a week and a half they started shoveling the mud out. Three/four feet of it!

This was sitting in a block of gooey mud with just the stack showing, he almost tossed it and then saw the stack. It is a Lionel #8206 (all cast shell) 4-6-4 Hudson

It has been in the mud for around a month now, it is beyond the rigor mortis stage. The wheels are locked.

He brought to me on a stretcher and asked what I thought.
I think this is from the 70's? NYC? It came with a marked NYC whistle tender I think?

He told me he will look for the rest when they continue the shoveling.

There might be a whole box of trains in the mess somewhere, I told him not to toss anything.

A few pictures, 
he said he started rinsing it with water to get the mud off. Then he stopped, He was afraid of ruining it by rinsing it with water.:laugh:
It sat in the muddy water for almost 2 weeks then in the wet mud for another 2 weeks, do you think he would have ruined it any further?

Doctor Ed, is going to check the patient out. :smokin:

I hope he finds the tender. Maybe I will end up with a big box of muddy Lionel junk. He had thought his brother took these when the Step-dad passed away, now his brother is gone too so he doesn't know how many are in the mess. He did say his Step-dad had a bunch of O stuff at one time. Maybe an old Hellsgate bridge will emerge from the mud, that would be cool, mud and all. 
I am like a little kid waiting for Christmas to come.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

this maybe your new friend for this engine. 

Pookybear


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Once you start rinsing, you should complete the job!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I got to get it apart Pooky, I am sure there will be mud caked up in the gears.
Plus it sat in the water 2 weeks then the mud for another 2.

It does need something. That is for sure!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Once you start rinsing, you should complete the job!



Yes it was all wet anyway, he should have just rinsed all the mud off.
Plus he lives down the shore so it might have been salt water it was sitting in.
Then I think a fresh water rinse would have benefited it more then harm it. It would have got all the salt off of it.

But it could have been sitting in fresh water, I will have to ask him.
I think his Mom might lives in the Bayonne area, not sure.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Other than the surface rust on the metal parts, it looks to be in decent shape. Should definitely be able to get it rolling again


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Just looks as if a serious cleaning is needed. At least nothing metal has had the chance to corrode. Better get that spotless before its to late!


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

Grunt, grunt. Looks like a good weekend's worth of work anyway. Piece of cake.

I'll start a pool. He get's it running and it's one of the better pullers he's restored.

Any takers?


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

I was lucky during the storm. All my Lionel boxes were stored in the attic at my work on Long Beach Island. We lost tons of shingles from the roof but my train boxes survived with no damage. Now all the boxes have been moved to my home in a spare closet. What a relief. Good luck with that cleanup Big Ed. That is a nice looking loco. She is in good hands.
-Art


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

You may recall that I resurrected an old Lionel flood-victim set a while back. Stick with it ... there's hope ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3847

TJ


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Big Ed will fix it. And if he can't, ship it to TJ--problem solved!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Salt water can be nasty to metal. It still may corrode after a cleaning. Perhaps using some baking soda to adjust the ph.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Baking soda is corrosive. Not a good idea to use on the loco. Clean off the mud on the outside and as much on the inside as possible. Then take the motor out and clean everything. I would use penetrating oil to get the axle bearings turning again. This loco should come back to life without too much work.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

If salt starts to work on the metal, plain water will not help. That I know for sure,. If not baking soda, something has to offset the reaction. I have seen tools exposed to salt water. If no reaction is present on the metal. You are lucky.

After rethinking I would use vinegar if a metal piece was reacting with salt water. I guess some experimenting is in order. If the metal starts generating a white color then salt water is pesent.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd use baking soda on it and then give it a through rinse.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*lionel junk*

Hay,ed.. That`s is a 1970 to 1975 model. oh,by the way,not lionel junk,lionel merchandise. I`m also a junk dealer so keep me in mind.Salt and white vinigar makes a really good rust remover but you have to keep it oiled after you clean it as it will rust rather quickly. Also if wrong metal it will soften the metal and it will be useless. I use this on old tools I find.

Hope this helps..sane pilot: hope things work out..:thumbsup:


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I think the problem with salt is it gets into the tiniest places. I would consider rinsing the loco in hot water to try to dissolve the salt out of the cracks and crevices. Oiling all the metal parts after rinsing and drying should be a good idea. I don't know of anything that will neutralize salt. Baking soda won't as it is another salt. I would consider looking for a ultra sonic cleaner. That should get the loco extremely clean.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

may i suggest simple green? it will be safe for the paint and the electrical components. maybe some contact cleaner


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

YIKES! Do NOT use Simple Green! 

That will cause rust, and get into places you do NOT want it.

Here's a couple of threads about a guy that learned this the hard way.

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/8891865138368040

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/10581454650269671

Let's be careful out there.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

In basic chemistry an acid and a base forms a salt. If you have an acidic reaction, a base like baking soda will neutralize it. Or if you have a base reaction an acid will neutralize it, like vinegar. Of course you don't need them full strength either just dilute them with water. Then you have the old saying acids burn and bases dissolve. It's true with skin.

Something to think about.

I would think it would be cleaned up by now Ed??


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Salt should be pH neutral or a pH of about 7. There is no acid or base to neutralize. 
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_pH_level_of_common_salt

Find someone with an ultra-sonic cleaner. That will definitely work.


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

corrosion of the wire windings I would be worried about. Just get the pressure washer out on the driveway andblow it out! then a good blast of the compressed air should work! I bet teh smoke unit is toast though. you may never get the gunk out of that thing.

chris


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T man I have been working...no time to screw around with it, till this afternoon.

I ended up doing what servo guy said, and took Pooky's advise too. I felt it wouldn't harm it anymore then sitting under SALT water for 2 weeks then in sandy/dirt/gritty mud for another 2 weeks. I asked him and he said it was Raritan Bay water which is salt water. I sprayed it the best I could with warm water then sprayed it with a penetrating oil mixture from a company I delivered to Wednesday. It has some kind of protective oil mixed in it. Before I sprayed it with the penetrating spray, I blew it dry the best I could with air.
I took off the brush plate and cleaned it up some.
I put it on the track and turned on the ZW and it did move a little.:thumbsup:

I then tried the e unit lever and then it wouldn't move at all. I removed the e unit and it was filled with sandy grit. 
Then it came apart in pieces.
That is where I am now, with a bunch of e-unit pieces. The drum, 2 sets of fingers, a side bracket piece and the e unit itself. What is left of it.:thumbsdown:

I quit now till the week end, at least I got her somewhat cleaned and the penetrating spray is at work now.

I got to go and look at the T mans e unit threads, I will then try to put it back together when I get the time.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you could find an ultrasonic cleaner, you would be way ahead of anything else you can do.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You are doing fine if there are no major sieze ups and the coils are fine. It's just a matter of time now.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> I got to go and look at the T mans e unit threads, I will then try to put it back together when I get the time.


... And the two-part e-unit video, Ed ... I watch that one over and over ... very informative / helpful.

Good luck with the mud muck monster!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> If you could find an ultrasonic cleaner, you would be way ahead of anything else you can do.


Some may be laughing at your suggestion but look here, it is affordable compared to years ago. Good ideal.:thumbsup:









In the past few years, the price of ultrasonic cleaning technology has dropped so low that a cleaner costs less than most power tools. Nowadays, you can buy an ultrasonic cleaner like the Sonic Wave CD-2800 for just $20 — and while it’s billed as a jewelery cleaner, you could just as easily clean small parts with it. Just drop the parts in the one-pint stainless steel tank; the Sonic Wave’ll blast ‘em for three minutes with 42kHz waves, then automatically shut off.




T-Man said:


> You are doing fine if there are no major sieze ups and the coils are fine. It's just a matter of time now.


I am doing just great T man.
I got a bunch of e unit parts in a pile.:laugh: I never got to see where everything was sitting.
I told you I never screwed around with them, I just swap them out.

But....I will figure out how it goes back together.:smokin:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Look at the crud, and this is after the initial rinse of warm water.

I then very carefully pulled out the e unit and it fell apart.:thumbsdown:





















I figured out how to get it back together and put it on the track. Not a fun job as you need three hands.
The e unit cycled fine (believe it or not). 
Notice the fingers in the first picture, I cleaned and straightened them the best I could. 
Even though it cycled it was not throwing power to the brushes. I took it back apart.

I then noticed that that two fingered plate was cracked making the fingers not contact the roller properly.
I put it back on the track and just held the fingers to the roller and the engine took off. It seems to have a lot of power.
I looked in my junk for a two fingered plate and could not find one.

That is where I am at now, trying to figure out a way I can temporarily put the finger plate in to see it run. I guess where that sits in the e unit slots it has to be insulated to work.
Maybe I can fabricate a temporary wood bracket up?
Maybe electric tape it in.
I just want to see it run, I don't know if he wants to dump any money into this. And I sure as heck don't, unless he donates it to me.:thumbsup:
If he does that then the whole thing wheels and everything should be taken apart and cleaned up. Look at the salt on the metal that the camera picked up, though it doesn't look that bad to the naked eye.

And whoever said that the smoker is toast, IT BLOWS SMOKE no lie, surprised the you know what out of me. Unless it is something burning up inside of it, but it looks like smoke to me. Hard to believe as I did not add any smoke fluid to it and I tried to stay away from it when I rinsed it off. Somehow I guess the water and mud didn't make it's way into it.

Time will tell, I wish the darn finger plate didn't crack.
I know it would be running around the track, add some smoke fluid and it might be running around smoking up the room. Any suggestions on a temporary fix would be appreciated, I would be happy for now just seeing it go in one direction with no e unit. But I don't feel like undoing the wires.

I am going to screw around with it a little later on, I don't want to waste too much time on this till I see what he wants to do.:smokin:

My David Stockwell bridge is screaming to me to finish it, I got a new ideal to add to it. Along with a list of other things I never completed.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

You can bypass the e-unit altogether, and jumper-lead power the motor directly to see if it runs.

Ping me back if you need help with the circuit/wiring.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> You can bypass the e-unit altogether, and jumper-lead power the motor directly to see if it runs.
> 
> ...



I want to see it running around the track, can I jump it with a jumper (with alligator clips) and let it run around you think?
One clip to the brush and the other to the roller somehow?
I don't want to just see it run, as I know it will run, I want to see it go around in circles. 
Maybe add some smoke fluid and see it smoke too. Or what ever was smoking might start on fire, I will have the camera ready.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You need to see which way that motor was wired ... either:

1. power into brush, through armature, out of brush to field coil, then from there to frame, ground, outer rail. Or...

2. power into field coil, through there to brush, through armature, out to other brush which would be grounded to the frame, from there to outer rail.

With either, you can jumper bypass around the e-unit (relatively easily with the finger plate removed), and should be able to get the motor running around the track, since you'll still have roller power pickup and drive wheel ground.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> You need to see which way that motor was wired ... either:
> 
> 1. power into brush, through armature, out of brush to field coil, then from there to frame, ground, outer rail. Or...
> 
> ...


OK Thanks I will give it a try.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I made a custom fix for the 2 fingered plate.
I used electric tape and it worked, I tried to take a video but I deleted it as it came out crummier then my crummy videos.

I will try again, but it cycles and runs pretty good. Sometimes it doesn't want to change directions but that is because of the fingers.
It wobbles running down the rail some too, I think it is missing a traction tire as it has one on one side but none on the other side.
Smokes a little bit every once and a while. Lost some paint off the top dome, I wonder why they use a different metal for it?

I have to see how much he wants to throw into it, needed a light bulb too.

But like I said, if it was mine everything would come apart to properly clean it. Wheels, everything.

But it is running, I will try and take another video after the camera charges.
The camera brings out some spots I got to get into with a q-tip and polish up some more. Unless it is the flash. There are still a few other spots that need a little polish and both the front trucks and the rear truck should really be painted.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Amazing transformation.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I forgot to turn on the light...duh....and the camera was set too low it must have moved when I turned it on, but it is running.
And it is embedded...I think.

E-unit 2 fingered plate is held on with electrical tape, it is finicky switching directions, every once and a while it puffs out a little smoke.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)




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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Very nice "rise from the ashes", Ed! The BEFORE pics reminded me of something out of a Clive Cussler / Dirk Pitt novel!

One wouldn't recognize the loco in it's current form, had you not told us the gory details.

Great resurrection!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Great Job!:thumbsup: I like those drive wheels too!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If he wants to go "all in", you could put a new E-unit in.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well I gave him a rough estimate on parts and he told me to keep it.
:thumbsup:

He also told me that no more were in the basement and that his brother must have missed that one.

So now Ed has himself a Lionel #8602 Locomotive now.
And another save from the dump.

Now I got to go back over it more thoroughly.
And get some parts for her.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

You really need to type up the story of this little loco, print it out on small font, and stick it inside the shell of the loco somewhere for future generations to find.

Surviving a hurricane and total flood like that is something that should not be lost to history.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> You really need to type up the story of this little loco, print it out on small font, and stick it inside the shell of the loco somewhere for future generations to find.
> 
> ...



The note might sit there for a hundred years or so.

I will have to make sure I sign it. 
Maybe put some micro pictures of the before shots too.


Hmmm, put it all in a flash drive for the future to look at.:thumbsup:

By then even the flash drive will be in the History books.:laugh:


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

That really is incredible. Absolutely record the history and put it somewhere to be found.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Hmmm, put it all in a flash drive for the future to look at.:thumbsup:
> 
> By then even the flash drive will be in the History books


True! It's amazing how quickly our high-tech media storage has been changing. 7.5" floppy discs, 3.25" floppies, CD, DVD, flash drives, etc.

Who even has a VCR these days!

I have a few friends who are museum archivists ... their best friend: good old-fashioned photo film. A well-stored film negative will still be able to make solid prints (photos, text, etc.) 100+ years from now.

Will we have DVD players 100 years from now? Likely not!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

TJ I still have my car 4 track/8 track and 16 track tape players.

I have a couple VCR's, a couple original fuzz busters (radar detector) a couple Atari game consoles with around 30 games, an old 4 channel CB and a assortment of other old CB's.
I still have original Craftsman tools from the early 60's.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I wonder if these were swimming around when my save was under water!

These were taking in Wildwood NJ after hurricane Sandy flooded it.

I guess it is dangerous to walk in floodwater after all.
Especially if it is salt water! 

I wonder if any Stripers were cruising the streets, you could cast from your front porch.:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think I'll stay out of the water!


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

Excellent save! Definatly worth picking up a good second hand E unit from ebay or elsewhere. And yes it does remind me of something from an older Clive Cussler novel where a train was suspected of going off a bridge into a river that was carriing something important, but was hid in an old mine shaft instead. The engine sitting on the river bed on the front cover reminds me of the before pic. Glad it has a new good home! Mike


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I've heard that some lawyers can act like sharks after storm damage, but I've never actually seen one caught like that on film before!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I bought new e unit finger plates, I just have to put them in. 
I bought a new traction tire and it looks like this loco only takes one? It only has one grooved wheel.
It still wobbles some going down the rail?
You would think that only having one traction tire would make it wobble? I tried putting the old one on the other side but it came right off.

I have been doing other stuff and have not fooled with this engine since the last time I posted.

I wish he had found more victims.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Sharks in the suburbs. Yet another reason to avoid New Jersey!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

eljefe said:


> Sharks in the suburbs. Yet another reason to avoid New Jersey!


Watch watch you say about New Jersey.:knock_teeth_out:

We got it all, a little of everything, something for everyone.
But one thing we don't need is MORE PEOPLE!
So feel free to not come to the Garden State.:smokin:


It is all (most of it) in here, You never read about NJ?
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3808


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Maybe you'd like Kern County California--nearly the same size as the whole state of New Jersey but with 1/10th the population. And no sharks!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't get me started on California, the land of fruits and nuts.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

eljefe said:


> Maybe you'd like Kern County California--nearly the same size as the whole state of New Jersey but with 1/10th the population. And no sharks!



Kern county is nothing like the Garden State.

We got it all. :smokin:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3808

Sharks are cool, you just don't want to try and ride on them.


But I will recommend that California is the place to be to all the "factory" workers and landscape workers I see in Jersey. 
We must have a million illegals here.

If I can figure out what language they are speaking I will tell them Kern County is the place to be.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

big ed said:


> So feel free to not come to the Garden State.:smokin:


I'm from Baltimore...we grew up knowing that Jersey was somewhere between the fourth ring of hell and Mordor...you don't hafta worry about me coming there :laugh::thumbsup:


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## Robes (Jan 5, 2011)

Seeing the before and after pictures,...then the video,..... put a smile on my face. Really made my day.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Robes said:


> Seeing the before and after pictures,...then the video,..... put a smile on my face. Really made my day.


I should have turned on the light for my Crummy video #5.

I took it back apart today to clean it up a little better.
I took the smoke unit and cleaned it up the best I could, put a little smoke fluid in to it and ran it around without the shell on. It smoked up a storm!

So I then took the brush-plate off to clean the armature and brushes some more, I put it on the track and it will only run in reverse now. 
I pulled the e unit as I only have the 2 finger plate held in by electrical tape because the piece that holds it in the e unit frame broke. 
I bought new finger plates so I was going to solder in the new plates but can't find my solder.
So I put it all in a box till I find my solder, most likely I will buy some more then I will find what I have.

Ed's world.


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## Robes (Jan 5, 2011)

You give me encouragement Big Ed. The 675 that I am going after this week is in good shape,... it just needs a cleaning and lube (I hope),... but if it doesn't, there is enough expertise on this site to help me through it. This is my first,... but not my last.

"most likely I will buy some more then I will find what I have." THAT is a given. I do it all the time.....


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Robes said:


> You give me encouragement Big Ed. The 675 that I am going after this week is in good shape,... it just needs a cleaning and lube (I hope),... but if it doesn't, there is enough expertise on this site to help me through it. This is my first,... but not my last.
> 
> "most likely I will buy some more then I will find what I have." THAT is a given. I do it all the time.....


Did you see this save from the trash pile?
My bro in law ran a pay-loader at the town dump and found this for me.
A Lionel #2065


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7467

Not done yet, I am going to re-letter the tender and add identification to the locomotive.


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