# New Layout - 14x16 switching layout with staging



## sstlaure

I figured I'd go ahead and start a new build thread for this switching layout I've decided to build by recycling my old 11x13 torn up from the move.

The Plan:

A switching style layout (point to point). 
4 track staging yard w/run-around track on lower level separated 11-12" from main level w/turntable at deadend to turn engines. 
Climb from staging @ ~2.7% grade 
Max train is 10 cars (I like long trains, but the dead end nature of this type layout doesn't really allow for them)
Industries both North and South from yard. Yard provides interchange between Class 1 railroads and local shortline RR (My kids like the idea of the RC&E - Reid City & Evansville Line)
- South from yard are a Mine and a Grain Elevator (maybe 1 other industry)
- North from yard will be some city type industries (Mill, Warehouse, etc)
Good sized yard with Engine house and Car shop, A/D track, caboose track and 3-4 classification tracks

Here's the staging level and the approach into town....


----------



## sstlaure

First - the teardown......



















I'm going through all of the pieces and removing the wiring/track. I'm probably going to re-use the 2' deep corner section in the top pic and try to keep some of the larger benchwork intact (to save labor/effort). I'll be removing all of the top layer stuff and just keeping the structure. Looks like I'll need all new roadbed as this stuff doesn't like to separate from the wood very well. 

Here are some of the recycled parts from a couple hours of teardown (still have 3 large sections to go through)


----------



## sstlaure

Now the new area to be filled. Layout will run along 3 walls with a peninsula to hide the grade from staging to the main level and to provide a turnaround loop and longer yard. 6 feet on the LH leg, 13.5 ft across back wall, 8 feet up the visible stud wall then out onto a 5'x7' peninsula.

The committee said as long as I keep access to the shelves convenient and use materials I already have that she doesn't care what I do. She may regret that statement :laugh:


----------



## sstlaure

Well....I've been playing around with how to have a nice sized yard and capacity for ~8 car trains on the whole layout. This is what I've come up with.










This gives me (2) A/D tracks (one for arriving trains, one for departing trains) and 3 decent length classification tracks. I went for a single ended yard as the yard ladder was eating up too much real estate.

The trains come out of staging into a country scene (think hilly terrain and lots of trees, etc.). At the wye, the train can either go to the right through the curve out to the industries (I've already got 3 planned, maybe 1 more to fit in) or it can go straight through into the yard. Once in the yard, there is an escape track at the end of A/D #1 to allow the engine to get out and go for servicing. This is where all trains will pull in.

The yard switcher will either pull the cars and put them on 1 of 3 classification tracks, or it will take already classified cars and spot them on A/D #2 for departure by either the local (go to industries) or the Class 1 connection going out to points off-layout (back to staging)

By turning the yard around and dead ending it I've given this switcher layout a decent mainline run and also created a little vertical variety. The shaded grey area sits ~4" below the yard and has 1 small industry spur with room for 1 car to be spotted and (1) inside the building.

This layout will have a few scenes broken up by backdrops....that's what the angled "walls" are on either end of the yard.

Whaddya think?


----------



## Bman

Good Stuff, I have stared at this for quite a while now and I must say it looks real good to me. I look forward to seeing the progress!!


----------



## gc53dfgc

So what is the other part of it for? I only see half of it drawn in with track and buildings.


----------



## kursplat

this is going to be good....can't wait to see how it comes out


----------



## sstlaure

So I finished designing the main level of the layout (industrial branch)

I'm going to have to change around how the staging climbs into the main level as there is a clearance problem between the topmost curve coming up and the wye leg going to the industries. I'll just keep the tracks from staging down lower and coil them up one side helix-style to avoid the current cross-over problem. Better to figure this out now in the drawing stage than find out that it won't work with a ton of benchwork completed.

The (2) main industries shown are the mine (I've got 24 of the Michigan style ore cars) and a large grain complex. Once I have those in I'll see where I've got room to add a couple industries along the backdrop. I also want to leave plenty of room for roads/etc as my kids love driving the various vehicles around the layout. Similar to my last layout I'm going to have a large put adjacent to the mine to give them a place to play with the construction vehicles we've got (HO scale of course)


----------



## sstlaure

Got the old yard torn off of the benchwork and mounted it and the benchwork from my 2x6 diorama against the walls to try out the set height of staging/main level as well as test clearance.

Lower shelf seen here is the start of the staging end and the L-shape is the corner coming out of the yard and into the industries.

Staging will only be 12" deep from the front edge with a backdrop. Clearance above rails is ~8" With the depth, this height seems adequate.


----------



## tjcruiser

Are those screws for a reinforcement strip behind that notched area I'm seeing? I hope so. Also, you should screw and/or glue-fasten your table-top surface to the top edge of the 1x3 for some distance in way of that notch to reinforce it further. It'll help create a stiffer I-beam type of structure.

I like the tucked-under staging area ... neat!

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

Those screws indeed fasten a reinforcement under the benchwork. The notch is a left-over from the old layout - the powerpack sat in the notch. I'll be closing it up and covering the edge with fascia work. I'll create a new shelf below that benchwork for the wiring/powerpack, etc.

The L-shaped part will extend all the way onto the shelves on the LHS (looking into the U) The 1x4 leg in the pic is just temporary until I can build the next section of benchwork.

Both of these sections of benchwork will have some kind of 1/2" hardboard on top as this area represents fairly flat land. I may have 1" foam on top to allow for some contouring, but I have to be careful how thick the top layer becomes as it all adds to the climb up from staging.

I'm still mocking things up with ready-made benchwork to test the clearances, etc. and to see if I like this height of benchwork. staging sits at 33.5" and the main level is at 45", which will put the yard at 49".


----------



## tjcruiser

Got it. If the notch is not needed, and you lap over (or behind it) with another plank, make sure you glue/screw that on to the remaining notched piece.

Not to keep putting you on the spot, but is there quite a bit of water leakage through that masonry wall abutting your layout? (In way of the streaked area.) A concern, if so, of course.

I'd consider chipping out the cracked area and packing it with hydraulic cement, if it still leaks. Or better yet, try to address the issue from the outside of the foundation.

Hopefully, it's bone dry, and only an old issue.

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

This new (1968) house I bought has it's issues. (tons of them) I'm currently working on replacing all of the soffets and adding gutters. Currently, the rain comes off the roof and lands right at the foundation so I have numerous places where water is getting in. Once I can get the water diverted away from the foundation with the gutters, I can figure out where my real leaks are that need to be fixed.

The layout is spaced a little way from the wall to avoid any contact and that particular area only sees a tiny bit of water when it absolutely pours.

I've got enough areas of concern that I'll be bringing in an expert to seal it up when I can afford it. (I'm replacing windows, insulation, exterior sheathing, siding, soffets, roof, etc so I have to pay as I go....like I said - it needs a bit of work.....but the property is INCREDIBLE.)


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott,

When we bought our house a few years ago, the gutter downspouts all discharged about one foot from the foundation ... crazy ... all that water pooling exactly where you don't want it. We put in underground PVC drains pitched to carry the gutter water about 40 feet away from the house. It's made a huge difference / improvement.

Your thinking is totally on the right track!

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

*A little more progress*

So I got the mine/grain elevator levels in. Need to trim the pit area of the mine once I lay out the locations of the track (drawing the plan on the boards) Also tore apart a couple sections of the old layout down to just the base framework. 2 of these sections will make the 5.5'x9.5' peninsula.

Not sure why my pics are coming out so fuzzy....Maybe I need to set-up my flourescent lights tonight to get a little better lighting so it can focus better.


----------



## tjcruiser

Building the table integrally around the support column?!? 

Why not, I guess ... if it works in the layout design ...

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

The tracks will be looping around it a few times land-locking it so I figured I'd make my life easy. If I have to tear this apart someday, it would need significant tear down anyway. Those 2 big sections forming the peninsula are almost untouched from the original layout (only modification was moving one of the larger cross-pieces over to clear the post and angling the corners that were previously 90 degrees. This peninsula adds a lot from an operational standpoint allowing my trains to enter/leave scenes and disappear for a little while while gaining/losing altitude.

Believe it or not, from the bottom staging up to the yard, then from the yard out to the furthest industry gives me ~128ft of mainline. (48 feet of which is the climb from staging and into the mountains, 32 feet winding through the mountains to the yard, then another 48 feet decending from the yard and going out to the industries)

My wife mentioned last night that when I eventually build my BIG layout, I can just make this one the kid's layout to play with (great idea BTW)

I changed around the climb/wye area on the layout. I removed the wye (this models a branch line, so there is no real reason for tracks to go from the industry straight to staging (modelling all points North) The only engines going to the industries are the locals which are based in the yard. I wanted to have this layout give me the opportunity for testing a bunch of different techniques.

I'll have a mountain area - heavy trees/cover, trains passing over a bridge (x-crossed the line as it looped up) Going to set it in fall in this area so the colors should really pop.

Gritty city yard - industrial feel, vehicles, people, streets, lights, tall buildings, etc.

Rural setting (high plains grain & open pit mining.) Grasslands - light tree coverage, small town.

It should give me great opportunity to try lots of stuff.


----------



## sstlaure

*What a difference a few days off makes!!!*

That and an understanding/supportive wife.

Got tons of progress done this weekend (4 days off) Mysteriously the layout has now grown to ~14'x16'

Got all of the flourescent lights mounted, still need some additional lighting in the mine area. I'll probably build upper fascias to shield your eyes from the light and still cast good light on the layout. 

Got the Entire main benchwork support completed - Peninsula built & connected to 2x6 lower level, built and braced all legs, installed powerstrip, etc. I can sit in the middle of the weakest part between the legs in the center of the peninsula.

Got the staging level 1/2" plywood down (15" wide) and the cork laid. Started laying track but couldn't find my big thumbtacks (have you seen them anywhere?  )

Put coved backdrops in both staging and in the mine area using hardboard. Most corners will be coved around the layout.

Next step is starting to lay track and wire the lower level so I can build the benchwork of the upper level.

Won't be able to work on it for a few days, but hopefully next weekend I can make some more progress.

Enjoy the pics.


----------



## sstlaure

*And a few pics of the benchwork*

Basic benchwork framed outer with 1x4 with 1x3 stringers. Legs are 2x2 with 1x2 supports and 3/4" thick triangular gussets. Nutserts with bolts on the bottoms of the legs to tune level.

2nd pic is the location of the 3 loop helix to make the climb up to the main level (even with far industries)


----------



## tjcruiser

Framework is coming together nicely. Starting to look like a layout!

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

A bit more progress this weekend.


Got all the staging tracks laid from yard throat to turntable (10 car + engine capacity)
Cut the portal to exit staging
Started building the climb from staging - I'm about 20 ft into 48 ft to get to the main level of the layout and am 1 loop through the helix (of 2.5 loops)
Started locating/installing powerdrops


----------



## tjcruiser

Looks like the careful planning / designing is starting to fall into place nicely!

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

It's getting there....picked up some suitcase connectors at Radio Shack today (gotta find a cheaper source). On the last layout I darn near broke my neck trying to solder in all the feeders under the layout. Doing some research it seems people have had excellent luck with these connectors staying seated and providing a reliable connection. Snapping them closed is a TON easier than stripping & soldering a million (maybe a slight exaggeration) wires together.


----------



## sstlaure

Ran a train up the hill for the first time last night. 10 car train with loads (fairly heavy JWD coal loads) My P2K GP38-2 pulled them up the grade no problem (set at ~2.4%) I wanted to make sure the grade wasn't a problem before I really got deep into building the helix.

Thomas even made a run up the hill pulling Annie, Clarabel, (2) Troublesome trucks, a Milk tanker and a Brake coach (he's got a little weight added to him to aid in pulling.) He was able to move smoothly up the hill with no wheel slip.

I love it when a plan comes together.


----------



## TONOFFUN80

Try your local autoparts store for those connectors as we carry them at work
not a 100% they are cheaper worth a try


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks.....I found them at Lowes last night (20 for $3.89 vs 10 for $3.00 at Radio Shack.)

They aren't cheap, but they sure are much easier than soldering and the time saved is well worth the money. I got the Blue 14-18 size (#14 Buss wire and #18 power-drops) 

Made a test connection and continuity was great with the wires held very securely. I'm using my old DC powerpack as a tester on the layout until I get all the wiring in, then I'll devise a control panel, etc to go DCC with everything.


----------



## cabledawg

Scott, I'm really impressed with your layout. I only wish I had that much room to work with (moving every two years doesnt help either). I am curious as to what you used for the backdrops. You said hardboard, but the stuff you used looks somewhat flexible. I just think it looks neat and might save that idea for a future build.

And yes, inline splice connectors (aka suitcase connectors) work wonders when you dont need something weather tight. I've used them for automotive electronics mostly, but in the MRR world, they are indespensible. The key is using the proper gauge connector with the proper gauge wire. And if you're careful, they are reusable too :thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Cabledawg...I bought this house to keep for a LONG time, so I wanted a more permanent/built-in layout.

I'm pretty sure it was this stuff. 

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I initially purchased the stuff to become the 30" wide shelves that are along 24 feet of 1 wall (visible in the pics near the mine.) I had HD rip them to a 30" width for the shelf leaving an 18" wide x 8 ft long strip (I had 6 of these.) 18" high is a little lower than I'd like, but it fit perfect in the mine area (above the benchwork but below the shelf - maybe 1/4" to spare) 

I'll probably use it for fascia work as well as it's easy to work with, accepts paint well and gives a nice clean finish. I countersink all the screws and will mud/sand any transitions/screw heads in the backdrop.

I've been coving the corners to give a smooth transition between scenes and this stuff is perfect. You can get them to hold about a 12" radius with strategic bracing.


----------



## Bman

Pretty awesome progress Scott, I envy your woodworking ability, that bench work is looking great!! I'm staying tuned :thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Bman...you're not that far away if you want to come check it out in person. You too raleets.


----------



## raleets

Scott,
Thanks for the invite!  I'm also in the "carpenter stage" of adding to my layout. The 4X8 will soon be 10X10 with a long Amtrak line surrounding the original 4X8.
I'll try to get some photos up of my progress.
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

Cool deal Bob. I'm real close to you now (just northeast of Brighton)

Here are some pics from last night.

I've made a temporary panel so I can run this thing. All of the staging tracks are completely wired as is the track that has been laid climbing out of staging. I need to pick up some 1/2" plyboard to continue building the helix for the next step.


----------



## sstlaure

Finished the helix this weekend. Went with a 27" radius to minimize the grade. Trains pull all 3 loops no problem. 0.5" clearance between the tops of my tallest cars (Double stack intermodal, 84' Triple level car carrier and the NMRA gauge).

Of course...Murphy struck - went to take pics and the camera was dead - No AA in the house. Pics coming tonight.


----------



## tankist

good carpentry work there Scott. the little guy liked your thomas train right next to the big guys.


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Anton....My jigsaw is getting a real workout. 

Thomas is one of my best runner's...He made many loops up/down the helix while I was working on it this weekend. I wish I could get Percy working reliably - he's real intermittent on getting power from the tracks. I think the wheels are out of gage but I haven't figured out how to pull them out a bit without bending anything.

I plan on converting both to DCC (and probably will get Gordon this x-mas) and will dedicate one siding in staging to Thomas trains (should be able to fit 3 complete trains of 4 cars each no problem.


----------



## cabledawg

sstlaure said:


> Thanks Anton....My jigsaw is getting a real workout.
> 
> Thomas is one of my best runner's...He made many loops up/down the helix while I was working on it this weekend. I wish I could get Percy working reliably - he's real intermittent on getting power from the tracks. I think the wheels are out of gage but I haven't figured out how to pull them out a bit without bending anything.
> 
> I plan on converting both to DCC (and probably will get Gordon this x-mas) and will dedicate one siding in staging to Thomas trains (should be able to fit 3 complete trains of 4 cars each no problem.


Thomas is easy to do if your just doing DCC. Sean managed to fit a DCC decoder and a sound decoder, plus the speaker into my Thomas, but it's such a squirrel nest in there now, I'm afraid to do more than just pull the top off. I've added front LED's to two Thomas' now and that's not too hard either. There's a guy on youtube that has a good video that shows the hard and easy way to do a DCC conversion; if I find it, I'll post it up.

I really like your layout area. It doesnt look like it takes up much more room than mine, but you've got alot more track on yours. Mine needed to be kid and moving truck friendly though. If we ever get to a more permanent location, I think I'll go with something a bit nicer and multilevel like yours.


----------



## sstlaure

I learned a ton from my first layout.

Avoid duckunders/crawl-unders
Keep reach-in <30 inches
Staging for train movement
Plan with operations in mind (not just running a train)

I liked my old layout, but it got old running it pretty quick. I think this one is going to have a nice variety of traffic/operations to keep things interesting.

Here are pics of the helix completed this weekend. At the exit is an inner siding/outer mainline. The siding will be a passing siding just outside of the helix to speed traffic into/out of staging (when one passes coming out, another can go right in rather than having to wait for ~80 ft of single track mainline to clear. I'll also try to put in a small siding inside the passing siding for a small logging area (why not). Inside the helix I kept the track wiring up on the same level as the track and just fixed it well outboard of the track. Running the wires underneath the roadbed as I did on the rest of the layout would have reduced overhead clearance inside the helix which is already at a minimum 0.5" 

Also posted is a pic of a future coal branch that will go along the length of the wall you can see all the crap leaned against.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That looks great Scott! That will be really cool with a couple of trains running around it.


----------



## sstlaure

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That looks great Scott! That will be really cool with a couple of trains running around it.


Ask and ye shall receive. Actual evidence that I do indeed run trains on this thing (although still just DC)

Here's Thomas running up and down the helix


----------



## sstlaure

And here's one of my Bachmann GP40's pulling my clearance check cars.


----------



## Massey

WOW looks good. The helix came out nice.

You need to rename the extra Anne and Clarabel cars! My son pointed them out to me the other day and asked me what their names were. I had no clue! I told him I would ask you about it but seeing the pics of Thomas pulling them along I see they are just 2 Anne and 2 Clarabels. LOL he is not going to be happy when he hears this! He thinks there are 2 new cars that he needs to add to his collection LOL.

Massey


----------



## sstlaure

That's a good idea to rename them. We had bought 1 pair when my son only had Percy (he wanted some passenger cars) and then my parents gave my kids a Thomas/Annie/Clarabel set last Christmas, so now they've got a whole excursion train.

There's one spot on the helix I wasn't happy with. Where I had to join 1/2" plyboard to 3/4" plyboard (bridging recycled layout parts to new ones), I couldn't figure out how to level the top surface of the joint without attaching something to the side-facings (the track gets too close to the edge to attach on top.

Last night I figured it out. I will attach additional 4x4 chunks of each plyboard thickness to a single 8" long 1x4. This will create a step of 1/4" between the 2 with the bottom surface completely flush. I'll then attach this to the bottom of the joint - plyboard to plyboard. The step in the gusset plate should match the step in the roadbed thus making the top surface completely flush. 

Everyone in my house is sick right now so I was limited on the amount of noise I could make last night, otherwise I would have before/after pics of this area.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Great shots. How did you join the pieces of plywood? I'm thinking of using biscuit joints.


----------



## sstlaure

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Great shots. How did you join the pieces of plywood? I'm thinking of using biscuit joints.


On the outboard side I simply positioned the 1x4 helix spacer 50/50 over the gap between the boards and screwed vertically down into the 1x4 (side grain) On the inboard side I cut a wafer 1/2" wide of the 1/2" thick plyboard and screwed in using 3/4" deck screws. 

If you make your roadbed wide enough to clear the cars on both the inside and outside edges, then you could just use the 1x4 on both inboard/outboard. I was purposely trying to keep the inside of the helix completely open for maintenance as well as giving a clear view of the train while inside the helix. I plan on putting a 1.5-2" tall plexiglass edge protector along the inside and 1/8" hardboard enclosing the outside of the helix so I wanted everything flush with the roadbed to make it all blend nice and smooth. I think I got about 95% of the way where I wanted to.

I also minimized the splices necessary in the helix by cutting as large an arc as possible as a single piece. From a 4x8 piece of plywood I was able to get almost 270 degrees around a loop in a single piece (@ 26" radius for the track + 2" clearance on either side....If I did it again I'd probably go 5" wide on the roadbed to leave a little more room for the bracing.

I circled the joints in this pic.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Mine is going to be two O-scale tracks, so I think I'll need some support on the inside. The outside tracks are going to be O-42, the inside O-31, so the outside width will be 48", just enough to fit on a 4 foot sheet of plywood. I'm also thinking of notched supports so I don't encroach on the space for the track as much. My current estimate is about 13-14" wide for the helix base, too much to support just from the outside. My trains are heavier too.


----------



## sstlaure

I'd support the bottom loop with T-girders (basically 1x4 bolted together to form a T cross-section when looking at the end grain.) Put 1 T on either side of the track with the bottom leg of the T pointing towards track center and the top of the T parallel with the roadbed edge. This will provide support along the length of the track as well as support the middle. 

Then for any loops above, I'm not sure what the track/track clearance needed for O-scale is, but try to find a standard width lumber to use as your between track spacers as it will keep things nice and easy (cuts aren't critical as they only make the length of the spacer, not the height - let the lumber industry control the tolerance on a width of a board - they do a great job at it.)


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, I need to keep the spacing at 6" to maintain a reasonable grade, so I'm kinda' stuck with minimal supports over the tracks. I figure if I use 1/2" plywood, I really want to not have any additional obstructions under the upper tracks. That's why I figured on supporting them from the edges. I've seen one built like this, looked pretty solid.

If I read you right, you're talking about a center column holding up the roadbed.

I have about 5" of space between the inner and outer tracks, so perhaps some sort of center support would work. As far as the height of the spacers, I'm not worried about cutting to precision spacing, I do that all the time. I really want to keep the 5 1/2" open space between the helix layers for clearance of rolling stock. By the time I put the track and the underlayment, I end up with about 5" above the tracks. That should handle everything but the EP-5 with the pantographs extended. 

Here's the helix layout, it's really an oval since a true round one took up too much space side to side.


----------



## sstlaure

1x6 should work perfect (0.75" wide by 5.5" tall) for the between layer spacers. So plywood to plywood would be 5.5" + any roadbed thickness+height of rail. You may want to go 1x7 which is 6.25" wide. I just loved how fast I could cut numerous spacers using this method. Both 1x6 and 1x7 are listed as standard lumber sizes (although I don't recall every seeing 1x7 in any stores)

The T-girders would be the support for the bottom most layer (I assume this helix is over base benchwork...could be wrong.) For the side support of the upper layers of the helix, you can leave room for the spacers as stated above, or you could simply run lumber vertically up the sides (inside and outside) and screw through this lumber into the side-facing of the plyboard (pre-drill to avoid splitting.)

I know O-scale trains can get pretty heavy, not sure if a lone central support would be strong enough, although once you start going around the loop a couple times the whole assembly gets pretty rigid (all those braces running around in a circle brace the helix in multiple directions.) Mine feels like it's built like a tank - no deflection at all.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The problem with using the cut dimension for support is they're very weak laterally, they'd be much stronger if they're supporting with the grain.

As far as being over base benchwork, I'm still considering another possibility. I'd like to have a lower "staging" area, and I was thinking of maybe having at least the inside track go one more turn and deliver trains to that area. I just have all the materials now for the ceiling track, which is going to be built first, next will be the bench, and then I'll connect them with the helix.


----------



## sstlaure

*Sleep deprivation is good for additional construction time*

Some additional progress from last night. Hoping to get all the cork/track down on this tonight and start wiring this section. I'm wiring as I go so that I don't have to work underneath any tracks as they loop over each other quite a bit on this peninsula. One more lap around the table to finish the climb to the yard.

At the top of the helix is a passing siding (big enough to accommodate a full length train of 10 cars) I added this to aid in traffic flow in/out of the helix (train coming down from city can run while another is climbing from staging, they meet at the siding about 1/2 way in between. 

Also added an industry siding (logging) The dead-end curving track in the middle of the table is the split to go out to the grain elevator and mine, the one at the end of the table will continue the climb to the city/yard.


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott,

The layout under construction looks fabulous. Nice carpentry work. As I look at that helix run, I keep thinking you need one of these somewhere near your layout:












TJ


----------



## sstlaure

Yeah...it got a little tall. I like the viewing level, but it's definitely not ideal for the kids. I'll be making some boxes for them to stand on I'm sure. (Right now they stand on poker chairs.)

Staging is at 33" (perfect height for the kids) the industries (grain/mine) and what you see above the helix is at 45-46" and the City/yard is around 51-52". I like looking at the trains at about track level rather than the helicopter view I had on the last layout.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looking great, that's some really nice work!


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott,

Sorry ... I wasn't questioning the layout height. Rather, I was thinking that the helix loops reminded me a bit of an old-fashioned wooden roller coaster ride. We had one called the Dragon Coaster near me when I was a kid, and for those early developmental years of my life, I was too short to ride the thing! Since then, I've always wanted to plant one of those "You Must Be This Tall" signs on a post only 12" off of the ground!

Enjoy the ride!

TJ


----------



## Massey

I took my 5yr old son to the WA State fair last weekend and he kept getting upset that all the rides he wanted to go on had the line a couple of inches above his head. Maybe in 2 or 3 years he can ride them. When he found he could ride the "adult" swings he got really excited and started jumping around. I just had to buy tickets and take him on it. He loved it! He wanted to go again but at $10 for the 2 of us for one ride... Yea that was enough.

Massey


----------



## sstlaure

I didn't take offense there TJ...(more informational than anything.) Layout height is one of those individual things that everyone has a different take on, and it does look like a roller coaster right now for sure.

And now.....tonight's progress.

Got all of the cork and track installed on the sub-roadbed I put together last night. 

While that was drying I started building the deck above staging that will support the city/yard. I'm really happy with how the 2nd deck is coming out. It's cantilevered out over the staging, but the way I built it it's plenty strong and I don't need to put any vertical braces along the front edge leaving the staging area completely accessible.


----------



## raleets

Scott,
That's an incredible layout you've got going there. :appl::appl:
I'm sure the local lumber yard loves you.......cha-ching!
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Bob. Home Depot and Lowe's are both within 7 miles from the house and the employees all yell "SCOTT" when I get there (think NORM from Cheers) 

Most of what I've used so far for this build has been recycled from the first layout. So far I've got about $250 in to this layout beyond what I spent on the first layout (which I admit was significant). If I had to build from scratch I'd say this table could be put together for ~$1500-$2000 (including tracks, cork, all wood, screws, wiring, etc.) I've now spread that cost out over 3 years so it doesn't seem as bad as it would if you were dropping all that coin at once.

I've even been able to recycle the cork - that stuff isn't cheap and I had ~150-200ft of cork down on the old layout. I used an engine gasket scraper to peel the cork off of the wood. For the most part it comes off OK, with a little damage to the cork on the bottom side. In spaces the glue held so well that it pulled chunks of wood from the sub-roadbed. You can true up the bottom side prior to gluing with a bit of 40 grit sandpaper stapled to a scrap 1x3. Just put the cork on a hard surface, tack it down on each end with thumbtacks and give the bottom surface a scrubbing (don't do this to the top surface....yet) Once the bottom is clean, go ahead and glue it into position on the layout. 

Now.....when I peeled up the track off the cork also left glue residue behind on the cork (rough dry glue that spread up the ties when I stuck it down.) With the cork all glued into position on the layout, come back with the 40 grit and go over the whole top surface. This will even out any edges, glue residue, bumps, etc. and leave a nice clean surface to attach your track to. Make sure to vacuum everything up prior to any gluing for a clean surface.


----------



## kursplat

bench work's looking goood. is the lower lead into the helix going to be left exposed and easy to get to from the edge, or are you going to access from the middle?


----------



## sstlaure

the run-up to the helix will be accessible from the inside of the benchwork only (full wrap around fascia planned) Same thing for the helix - it will be totally hidden and there for operational sake. I've got larger openings in the benchwork inside the helix and in the middle of the other side of the peninsula so access is easy should I need it (I'll probably send either of my boys in there anyway to retreive any derailments.

I looked at the lead-in as a place where I might be able to squeeze in a little scenery, but the supports, etc for the tracks above hinder that plan.


----------



## sstlaure

Always check your work!!!!! I screwed up twice tonight.

I was wiring tonight (my most hated part) Installed all the drops and buss wires, then fired it up to test it. DEAD - short indicated

Flipped the new section off, layout works fine. (Good arguement for block wiring - easier to isolate shorts) Go to the new section and find 1 set of drops soldered in backwards. I flip these wires and re-solder and fire it up again. WORKING. Good

Run a train up the helix and as soon as it hits the new section - DEAD - short indicated.

I didn't screw up 1 set of drops, I reversed the 1 set of drops on that circuit that were CORRECT! I screwed up the other (4) sets of drops. To test this theory I reversed the wires coming out of the distribution block. New section works fine now. 

I think I'll redo those tomorrow. I screw up like this when I'm getting tired. I've been going non-stop on this thing for a few weeks with only 5-6 hrs sleep each night. I'm done for the night.


----------



## optronomega

Great looking layout. Wish i had the space for something like this. Maybe the next place i move to will have more room. I'm limited to a computer office that me and my brother share. Barely enough room for our 4x7ft layout.


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott,

Glad you tested ... better to find the flipped-flopped-drops now, rather than later!

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

optronomega said:


> Great looking layout. Wish i had the space for something like this. Maybe the next place i move to will have more room. I'm limited to a computer office that me and my brother share. Barely enough room for our 4x7ft layout.


Thanks. It's interesting, my old layout was a big table in the middle of a room 11x13, but it felt like it took up much more space than this layout which is physically bigger at 14x16 and this is why. You need to leave at least 2 feet on each side of the layout for access, so effectively my old layout was taking up 15x17 ft, but I had a ton less railroad. I think shelf layouts are the way to go. 

A 4x7 layout in the middle of a room takes up way more space than necessary. f you figure 2 ft on each side your 4x7, it's taking up at least 8x11 ft. 

If you go with a higher layout height (45-50 inches) you can clear most obstacles in a room and go around the walls on a narrow shelf. 

If you've got room in a closet for a shelf you can hide a staging area, you don't even have to damage the door if you make a removeable section that you put in when you want to run the railroad.

If you make it sectional shelving you can split the layout when you move and take it with you. Then just remount the sections and add filler pieces if you need to span a larger wall.

I bet if you think outside the rectangle that you'd be surprised what you could put in that room.


----------



## sstlaure

tjcruiser said:


> Scott,
> 
> Glad you tested ... better to find the flipped-flopped-drops now, rather than later!
> 
> TJ


Yeah...with the amount of circuits, wiring, etc I'll have in this thing I'm building each section, wiring and testing them as I go so I only have to worry about diagnosing problems on the new section because I know everything done before it is done.


----------



## optronomega

sstlaure said:


> Thanks. It's interesting, my old layout was a big table in the middle of a room 11x13, but it felt like it took up much more space than this layout which is physically bigger at 14x16 and this is why. You need to leave at least 2 feet on each side of the layout for access, so effectively my old layout was taking up 15x17 ft, but I had a ton less railroad. I think shelf layouts are the way to go.
> 
> A 4x7 layout in the middle of a room takes up way more space than necessary. f you figure 2 ft on each side your 4x7, it's taking up at least 8x11 ft.
> 
> If you go with a higher layout height (45-50 inches) you can clear most obstacles in a room and go around the walls on a narrow shelf.
> 
> If you've got room in a closet for a shelf you can hide a staging area, you don't even have to damage the door if you make a removeable section that you put in when you want to run the railroad.
> 
> If you make it sectional shelving you can split the layout when you move and take it with you. Then just remount the sections and add filler pieces if you need to span a larger wall.
> 
> I bet if you think outside the rectangle that you'd be surprised what you could put in that room.


Yup, i'm starting to realize that. I'm almost tempted to cut my layout in half before i get to far. Not to mention the turn radius is pretty tight. Would love to be able to make 24" or greater turns. 18" and 20" limits me too much on what i can run.


----------



## Smokinapankake

Tony Koester of MR fame posted an article some time ago about the downsides of an island type layout, much of which has been said here before. He suggested that, rather than using a standard 4x8 sheet of plywood as it came, to cut it into 3 16" wide strips and arrange them in a linear fashion around the walls of the room. Essentially building a shelf type layout. Same square footage, but much more useable arrangement. Wider radius curves, more prototypical action (point to point rather than roundy round), more action (switching) and room for yards were some of the arguments in favor. 

Unfortunately, for those who just want to watch the train go round and round, this is not an option unless they make the layout go round the whole room. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages, and I think most who build an island type layout realize the downsides rather quickly. 

My next layout will be an around the walls shelf type, double decker with an elevator rather than a helix to get from one level to the next.


----------



## cabledawg

There's a better way to cut the 4x8 to make a continous run layout. Cut the board into 2 1x8 sections, 2 1x7 sections and the last 1x2 section into four traingle sections. The 1x8's will be the "sides", the 1x7's will be the "top and bottom" and the four triangle pieces fit into the inside corners .By doing this I think you can get up a 26"R on the corners and stil have room for a little scenery on the foot wide shelves. Also with this plan, I bet a person could make it to break down into four sections for easy storage. Just sayin'


----------



## sstlaure

Nice 4x8 split cabledawg.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Clever use of one 4x8 board. :thumbsup:


----------



## cabledawg

I cant take credit, someone else on this forum showed me this. I just cant remember who 

It is a neat idea and right now I'm taking my layout that is on two 4x8 sheets and one 2x8 sheet and seeing how much of my track could fit onto a 4x8 cut into the pattern I showed. So far I've been able to fit about 50-60% and still have room, but I want it to look like an actual RR, not just a congested pile of track. I'll start a seperate thread for this though as we've already derailed (hehe) Scott's thread.


----------



## sstlaure

I am a CHRONIC thread derailer, so I figure it's good payback. 

Hopefully I'll have some new pics tonight to get this back on track.


----------



## sstlaure

Mostly wiring this weekend - got everything that is laid, wired. Set-up a 2nd panel for the mainline, I'll probably need more circuits by the time I'm done (I know I will) 

Picked up some LED flexible string lights for the staging area. They aren't super-bright, but they only need to illuminate staging enough for visibility. They were $8 for 6 feet so I got 2 of them to go from the roundhouse to the end of staging full lit.

Played with some fascia material. It's just clamped in place currently.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That is going to be one killer layout when it's done!


----------



## sstlaure

Started working my way out to the grain/mining industries. Laid 1/2" plyboard down, laid out and glued in the cork roadbed.


----------



## sstlaure

*Spaghetti Anyone???*

Well - the climb up to the yard is officially set. Got all of the sub-roadbed in last night and started laying the cork. I need to pick up another 4x8 of 1/2" ply in order to get it cut to actually lay the yard. Getting close to a functional layout. After this, the rest should be easy. I basically made the entire run around the table first, set it in place on the table, then set the grade for the whole thing by starting at the spots where tracks needed to cross over each other and maintain min 3.5" clearance.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I can't wait to see this done, that looks like it's going to be a great layout and lots of fun too boot!


----------



## sstlaure

I had to borrow a box of cork from my Dad to keep going - good thing he's stocked better than most train shops


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You need him over there helping.


----------



## sstlaure

I've been pushing him to get his layout started. He's been collecting stuff for darn near 40 years, probably has 50 engines, a few hundred cars, dozens of buildings, etc, but only has a 4ft diameter test track to run them on.

He's been over to help a couple times on the old layout (helped me figure out wiring, etc.)


----------



## raleets

Scott,
Your layout is dy-no-mite! :appl: :appl:
I can't wait to see a video of trains running around that big sucker. It will be hypnotic. :laugh:
Bob


----------



## kursplat

sstlaure said:


> I've been pushing him to get his layout started. He's been collecting stuff for darn near 40 years, probably has 50 engines, a few hundred cars, dozens of buildings, etc, but only has a 4ft diameter test track to run them on.
> 
> He's been over to help a couple times on the old layout (helped me figure out wiring, etc.)


 sounds like he's going to need some right of way privileges :thumbsup:


----------



## CJM

Have you managed to lose a train in all that spaghetti yet? What an amazing set of tracks!

Best wishes,
Chris.


----------



## sstlaure

No lost cars yet, but a few cars have tested their impact resistance. I've been working on getting edge guards in-place, but I have to clean up some areas to have them sit flush. 

I took a couple videos with my camera that I could post. Is youtube free for hosting videos? Then I assume you just post the link here (are there video tags similar to the img, /img tags for pics?)

Also included some pics of some of my rolling stock. With few edge-guards in place I haven't brought my nice engines out yet other than for a couple quick runs up the grade as a test.


----------



## raleets

Scott,
That layout is one masterpiece of engineering! :appl: :appl: But since you're an engineer, it's no surprise 
I used a full pound of drywall screws building my expansion, so I'm pretty sure you used about FIVE pounds. :laugh:
Sure hope you have a really good track cleaning car 'cause you'll need it for sure. That's why I invested in the CMX. I knew there was no way I could completely reach into the center of the layout to clean the tracks by hand.
That layout is a killer!! Great work :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Bob....luckily I also screwed my old layout together so when I took it apart I had a ton of hardware to start with. Pretty sure I'm on my 2nd 5lb box though 

I do have a good track cleaning car but the darn thing burned out after using it only twice (Atlas DCC ready with vacuum head and a spinning sanding/cleaning disc system) I need to send it back to Atlas for service or replacement. Unfortunately it was over a year ago that I bought it (broke after only 1 month, but with the move and everything I didn't get around to sending it back.) I'm just using the old bright-boy for now. My kids enjoy squeezing into the smallest spots and they do a nice job of cleaning the rails where i can't reach. (or don't want to reach)


----------



## Steve441

Wow Man - That's something else - Way to be! - So nice! - HO scale eh? I am watching! Cheers - Steve


----------



## raleets

Scott,
I'm going to pick up some inexpensive hall runner carpet with foam backing to put on the cement floor all around my layout. That at least will provide a little bit of cushion in case of the unthinkable crash. 
Since all of my "close to the edge" runs are straightaways without turnouts, I feel there is probably less chance for derailment issues. Agree?
Yeah, I know, Murphy just loves guys like me 
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

It may work a little bit, but I had 2" thick soft seat cushion foam on the ground at my old layout, and rolling stock still seemed to get damaged when it fell. For the outside edges of my layout I plan on putting up a 1" tall plexiglass guard so that if engines/cars tip over, they don't fall off the table. I used cardboard for this on the old layout and once installed I had a few good derailments, but never anything going off of the table.

Until I get landforms in I've got serious exposure to damage in a lot of spots.


----------



## NIMT

I make dirt banks and brush as a guard rail for mine!
But if you want to keep a clean look lexan (poly cabonate) rail is the best. lexan will not crack and break like acrylic when installing it or bending over it on a layout!


----------



## xrunner

Thought I'd better add my comment -

Awesome!


----------



## sstlaure

NIMT....pretty sure it is lexan that I have. I originally bought it for use on my Bronco (inner door panels) but I've ditched the doors on the Bronco altogether, so I don't need inner doors if there aren't any outer doors.

I'll cut it into 2" wide strips and have 1" above the top surface of the table and 1" overhang along the edge for me to drill/screw. This stuff seems fairly flexible, @2" wide strip it should be even moreso.

Thanks xrunner. I'm pretty happy with how it's coming along so far.

This weekend I'm going to try to get around to buying the last of the plyboard I need to build the yard base as well as finish off the corner of the industry level to connect it to the rest of the layout.

But first I want to rework the switch panel for the lower level, the way I have it now I don't like how the wiring looms are coming together inside the panel. Too messy.


----------



## sstlaure

Finished wiring up the turntable and roundhouse, zip-tied the harnesses up nice and tight. I didn't like the lower control panel and I needed to run more lines in for the roundhouse anyway, so I made a box that the excess wire can fit inside and mounted the powerstrip to the bottom of the box.

Put down the plyboard in the corner going out to the industries and starting laying the cork.


----------



## raleets

Scott,
LOVE the upside down Tacky Glue! :laugh: :laugh:
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

It keeps the glue up in the nozzle. I got sick of shaking the stupid bottle every time I wanted to glue something down. The container it's in is from the LED lights I put in the staging yard. Had I taken the pic an hour earlier you would have seen 2 bottles stuffed in there.


----------



## raleets

I figured that was the deal since I go thru the same "shakey" thing with mine.
Guess I'll steal your idea and get rid of the shakes. 
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

I upgraded the tacky glue stand by re-using an old Folger's coffee container, does a good job of collecting various thumbtacks, cork pieces, loose rail ties etc, and stands up better than the old glue stand.

Work on the industry spur is continuing and I added a storage shelf underneath the staging yard.

Starting to work out where some roads/structures might end up to further populate the far industries of Evansville. I think I need to come up with some more town names and name this end something new to give it a unique destination, maybe add a small passenger depot. Hmmmmmmm


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

This is becoming a SERIOUS layout, nice!


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott,

Nice work, all around. I especially like your tool/supplies storage area ... great use of space.

Can you come organize my shop for me ... please?!?!?

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

*Time for some backdrops*

So I've got a birthday party coming up this weekend for my youngest and I'm going to have friends/family over. I really wanted to get started on the backdrops before the party so that people can understand the spaghetti bowl of track I've got.....so I started on the backdrops this weekend.

I got the flat 24" tall backdrop in the city yard area, still need to work out the track arrangement (need to buy more turnouts) for the yard itself. You can see where the final grade into the yard will be but the track currently stops just short of the backdrop into the yard. 

For the mountain scenic area I decided to make a curvy/flowing backdrop. I'm using 3/16" hardboard and was able to bend it into a fairly interesting shape that runs the backdrop around (2) sides of the peninsula. Where the track goes snug against the backdrop there will be a couple tunnel portals to go in/out of and the mountain will go over the tracks in that area. By doing the backdrop this way it created a small area between the (2) backdrops that I can fit in comfortably to access all of the hidden trackage for derailments/maintenance, etc.

Also included some up close pics of the furthest town (to be named) and the ore mine -24 Walthers goldline mine cars ready to go to work. Still need to wire up the industry branch (Power comes down the hill to just outside of the grain elevator. I plan on getting this section all wired up between tonight/tomorrow.

Unfortunately I had to take down (1) of my lights because it interfered with the backdrop so the lighting isn't great in the pics.


----------



## concretepumper

Man! AWESOME layout you have going on. Your building skills are great. Looks like something I would build! Keep up the good work. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

I thought you got out of the model train scene CP.....


----------



## zippy

that is great ! the bench work its self is amazing !


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks zippy. I can't wait to be done with the benchwork and move on to putting in the landforms.


----------



## zippy

Yea thats alot wish i had the room to do one like that i would love it !


----------



## sstlaure

*The pink is starting to fly*

I wanted to start getting some of the landforms in so that my rolling stock isn't so exposed to falling off of the table, so the kids and I started laying some 2" foam to try to identify the contours of the land in the mountain scene.

I want to have a couple bridges in here so I'm striving to have at least 2 river crossings. One will be a deep gorge to the right of the tunnel portal with the tracks running parallel along the deep riverbank (backdrop goes deep in this area.) I'll have a large 210' viaduct type bridge span the gap to access the coal branch.

Also included some pics of the new, smaller engine house, a caboose/office that my son picked up this weekend for $9 (nicely detailed) ,the cars we picked up (Exactrail and Intermountain.....easily the nicest cars in my fleet - the detail is incredible.) and a new Thomas Mail car - it's a nice small car with real 2-axle trucks.


----------



## optronomega

Looking good, I am curious about that top tunnel, will it have a removable roof? Looks like it could be a long reach to pull derailed trains out.


----------



## sstlaure

I can actually stand up behind that backdrop and can access all of the hidden track. (I assume you're referring to the track on the right.)

The tunnel on the left is only about 18-24" long. I test the track out a ton before I cover anything. So long as I'm running my nice weighted cars I've never had a derailment in that area. It's a nice broad 28" or so curve. The back half of the curve is buried underneath the yard (but again I still have access from behind the backdrop.) 

Here's the hidden track under the yard










And here's a picture with me holding the camera over my head in the room behind the backdrop. (It's probably about 3' across at the widest, but it's an easy reach for any of the hidden track.) That's the helix wrapping around my body and the other track is the pass-through for the far industries.


----------



## optronomega

Ah, well was more talking about the one on the top that hasn't been covered yet. Didn't see a hole in the backdrop to access it. 8th pic down.


----------



## sstlaure

I think once I've got the tunnel covered I'll cut some 4" diameter access holes in the backdrop inside the tunnel just in case. Good catch.


----------



## raleets

Scott,
As always, my kudos on your great work! :appl: :appl:
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Bob.

Worked late into the night on the first mountain. I need to plan a skid road for a logging operation so I'll need to recontour things a little bit to give a decent road/grade criss-crossing the slope to gain altitude.

I've got a long weekend starting tomorrow and plan on gluing these things together and starting to shape them tonight. I need to build a little more benchwork to put in the coal branch to define the outer edge of this part of the table.


----------



## sstlaure

*More foam work and coal branch line benchwork*

Had a 5 day weekend over the holiday and managed to get some layout work in between family events. Worked on the mountain a little more - it's tough getting a decent grade on the logging road 

Once I got a bunch of that foam glued and drying I decided to put in the benchwork for the coal branch. I still need to add the turnout and buy the 210' viaduct bridge that I have planned, but it's coming along.

I also completed the ramp into the main yard and bought the remaining turnouts I needed (there are 14 turnouts just in the yard.)


----------



## mr_x_ite_ment

Scott...that is quite the railroad empire you have coming along there! It is looking very impressive! I can tell that you have put a lot of thought into it!


----------



## sstlaure

Some pics of my progress over this last weekend.

I extended the benchwork on the lower part of the upper level to give me some decent length sidings at the new power company which will receive shipments from the coal flood loader located on the other side of the layout. I can put 6 cars on the long line and 3 one the short one, this will let me switch out empties for fulls with a few switching moves.

Also took a couple pics that show a wider view of the layout from opposite sides.

Also picked up some new DCC toys this weekend. My dad got this Procab set-up cheap and sold it to me. Now all I have to do is get it all hooked up and we'll be running multiple trains from separate throttles..... I'll be adding an accessory shelf under the layout soon to hold this stuff.


----------



## HOMODELTRAINZ2009

Looking very nice! Keep up the good work.


----------



## Conductorjoe

Very nice work !


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks guys....

Here's some progress from this weekend. 

Started putting up some of the lower fascia work 
extended the sub-roadbed around the logging end of the peninsula.
Finished the yard level benchwork
Ran the backdrop down the rest of the length of the new yard benchwork
Made a 9" x 40" entension to better place the powerhouse to allow enough room to have a nice side-hill coming down from the yard above


----------



## sentinal77

Inspirational.


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott,

OK ... don't take this the wrong way, and I'm not "comin' on to you" or anything, but ...

That layout of yours has some serious sexy curves. Way, way cool. Thanks for the updates ... keep up the nice work!

TJ


----------



## zippy

very nice ! think im going to go work on mine now . you just inspired me and motivated me !!


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks guys....it's cool to see it so well received.


----------



## sstlaure

*Coal Branchline*

Worked on the coal branchline this weekend. I'm hoping to lay all of this track/cork and get everything that is laid, wired over the x-mas holiday. 

I'm waiting on some thick cork pads to layout the main yard, those should be in over the break hopefully.

Also kit-bashed this plate girder bridge. I started with the Central Valley 72' double-track plate girder bridge. (pic attached) I used the pieces from the center support to lengthen the bridge to about 90' and made it single-track. Also skewed the 2 sides to give the bridge a 45 degree angle at both ends (the track going under this crosses at an angle. Painted and weathered the whole thing and added rails and guard rails. By buying the double track bridge I had all of the parts needed to kitbash this into something unique. Oh yeah...also added .020 styrene to the deck so that I could ballast. (Used light grey/grey mix of medium sized Woodland Scenics ballast. - I think next time I'll also add in equal parts of the fine ballast to the mix to give a nice variation of ballast particle size.)


----------



## kursplat

the bridge came out great


----------



## Massey

Nice looking bridge. We have a couple like that around here but there is a bunch of graffiti on it painted by the local high school kids. The rail road does not seem to mind as no one ever gets in trouble for it and there never is any thing on the news or in the papers about it. I have been here for 30+ years and it has been being painted every few months. One side is for one HS and the other side the other HS in the district.

Massey


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks. It was a fun little project. The bridge kit was only $22 - with the sheet styrene, ballast and code 83 guard rail (Code100 main) I have about $30 and about 12 hours of work into it.

It will go in this straight on the upper level where the industry branch goes under the mainline. The train will exit the tunnel, go over the bridge then go back into another tunnel portal.


----------



## raleets

Massey said:


> Nice looking bridge. We have a couple like that around here but there is a bunch of graffiti on it painted by the local high school kids. The rail road does not seem to mind as no one ever gets in trouble for it and there never is any thing on the news or in the papers about it. I have been here for 30+ years and it has been being painted every few months. One side is for one HS and the other side the other HS in the district.
> 
> Massey


Massey,
We have something like that here in Flint, MI, but it's a huge cement block water pumping house that all the local folks have been painting messages for around 50 years. They estimate there is over 2" of paint on the structure. It's a local historic landmark and the city stops around every couple of weeks to pick up the empty paint cans.
No harm, no foul.
Bob


----------



## Conductorjoe

Great work on the bridge, looks good. :thumbsup:


----------



## HOMODELTRAINZ2009

Bridge looks very good!!


----------



## sstlaure

Got the sub-roadbed cut out for the bridge to be installed, got it all fit-up and ran some test engines/cars across it. Seems to work great. I just need to get the abutments and groundform built up in this area.




































































































These next (2) pics are where the 210' viaduct bridge will go (approx 29" long) It will form the connection between the table and the coal branch


----------



## Massey

Looks like you are moving right along. Keep the pics flowin!!

Massey


----------



## mr_x_ite_ment

Scott...looks like nice work to me! Keep it up! 

Chad


----------



## sstlaure

A little more landform around the bridge and fitting the abutments (leftovers from cutting down the wing walls for my tunnel portals


----------



## Massey

Looks like the little helpers are out in force today. My son was also at my side while I built my layout. he still hangs out with me when I work on it.

Massey


----------



## mwpeber

Looks great! I've been enjoying watching your progress. I took a some notes while looking at your pics from your previous layout while designing my benchwork:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670

I recall you mentioning picking up materials at the Brighton HD and Lowe's. We've probably crossed paths many times around town.


----------



## sstlaure

*More landform*

Here are some pics of the last few days progress. Got the mountain on the LH side of the scene mostly in and shaped. I can't put the drywall compound on it until I finish up the track going into the yard. Hopefully I can get that done over the next couple of days (been off work since the 21st and don't go back until the 3rd.)


----------



## sstlaure

*Evansville Yard now in service*

I picked up some large midwest products cork pads (12"x36") for a great deal (5 of them for $25) and they were perfect to layout the main yard. Got it all installed over Christmas/New years, sank the balsa base for the engine house into the cork and laid the tracks and layouts for the yard and engine service area and finished the mainline run into the yard. Just need to wire it up now, hooked up some temporary leads and tested out the trackage - works great.


----------



## NIMT

That's a great price on the cork sheets, I paid a lot more than that for both the 12" and 5" sheets, and yea they are great for yard work! The complexity of the switching in front of the engine shop is great!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
You should put some dim lights in the inspection pits on your shop, it would make them pop!


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Sean. I plan on really detailing the shop when I get the time....spare parts, lights, a welder hard at work, etc.


----------



## sstlaure

Jeez....over a month since I updated this sucker. Guess I need to get back to work on the important things.....


----------



## sstlaure

tjcruiser said:


> Scott,
> 
> When we bought our house a few years ago, the gutter downspouts all discharged about one foot from the foundation ... crazy ... all that water pooling exactly where you don't want it. We put in underground PVC drains pitched to carry the gutter water about 40 feet away from the house. It's made a huge difference / improvement.
> 
> Your thinking is totally on the right track!
> 
> TJ


Finally got the exterior of the house completed and gutters installed. No water in the basement for over 1 month now......:thumbsup:


----------



## joed2323

yeah wth!!!!


Ive read this thread like 7 times lol.

Awesome work, i wish i had half the talent you do


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott,

That's great news. Have you had much rain, though? Springtime will be a real test.

TJ


----------



## Xnats

Good to hear :thumbsup:. TJ has a good point with the spring rains. It sounds like the work you have done,has the problem sealed though


----------



## sstlaure

We've had one of the warmest - wettest winters I can remember. I think we've only gotten maybe 8" total of snow this whole winter (vs a typical 30" or so) - instead of snow we've had downpours of rain.

When I bought the house the exterior was a combination of rough hewn cedar siding at the front door, stained white brick on the front facade, and 30-40 year old aluminum siding that had so many holes/missing pieces that I resorted to using duct tape as a temporary fix to keep the pieces from falling off the home.:thumbsdown:

Here's an exterior pic of the transformation

Replaced windows (Pella triple pane), ripped off the bay window on the front (had been rotting and had bats living in it.), siding (vinyl), added 1" foam insulation board under siding (got some extra pieces for the layout that were left over :laugh: ), new soffets, fascias and gutters and a little bit of detail work on the front for character. The house is so much better insulated that it's not even funny. Before the build the upstairs was 8-10 degrees different than the 1st floor. Now you can't feel a difference.

The roof will be torn off and replaced this summer. 

Before:











After:


----------



## kursplat

house looks nice, how big is the lot?
i'm diggin' the snow, it's 9pm and i have a bunch of windows open here because it's too hot in the house


----------



## NIMT

Scott,
The house does look great!

Kursplat,
:lol_hitting: "too hot in the house"

I've got 2+ feet of snow outside and it's 30 deg wood stove is rolling, and it's going to drop more snow tomorrow and the next day! Is spring coming soon?


----------



## sstlaure

No snow on the ground now, but we're forecasted for some tonight....lot is 4.5 acres, house is now right at 1800 sq ft. (Added 72 sq ft by closing in and heating the front porch. We've now got a mud room for the kids snowy boots, etc.)


----------



## Steve441

Very Nice! Great to have a closed in porch - Steve


----------



## tjcruiser

Great home reno work, Scott! Sweatequity pays off big time!


----------



## kursplat

4.5 acres, sweeet. 



NIMT said:


> Scott,
> The house does look great!
> 
> Kursplat,
> :lol_hitting: "too hot in the house"
> 
> I've got 2+ feet of snow outside and it's 30 deg wood stove is rolling, and it's going to drop more snow tomorrow and the next day! Is spring coming soon?


spent the day in shorts and flip flops working in the yard


----------



## sstlaure

kursplat said:


> 4.5 acres, sweeet.
> 
> 
> spent the day in shorts and flip flops working in the yard


I just spent the last 3 hours plowing 3-4" of snow (drifted to 12" in places) off of my driveway.....17 degrees F outside right now. It's supposed to get up to a toasty 18 degrees.


----------



## Prospect193

sstlaure said:


> I just spent the last 3 hours plowing 3-4" of snow (drifted to 12" in places) off of my driveway.....17 degrees F outside right now. It's supposed to get up to a toasty 18 degrees.


I use to live in Canada, now in sunny north Qeensland, Australia!!! I don't miss snow 1 iota!!!!! 13 years of it was enough for me!!

Pat


----------



## sstlaure

I like the snow and the change of seasons. If I could have just Summer and Winter I'd be all set. Spring & fall are fairly worthless around here (cold and rainy) We've got thick blood this far north, the cold rarely bothers me.


----------



## Prospect193

Too damn cold, I like a winter where I can still wear shorts and a t shirt!! All our winter gear is in plastic tubs, brought it all back with us!! Don't know why it will never see the light of day in this climate!!


----------



## manchesterjim

*That's just mean!*



kursplat said:


> 4.5 acres, sweeet.
> 
> 
> spent the day in shorts and flip flops working in the yard


Ok Kurspat! That's just downright mean!


----------



## Chimball

If there was ever a post that could make me feel like even more of a newb it is this one.
Great work...!


----------



## sstlaure

Alright....derailed my own thread long enough to start work on the layout again.

I started laying out all of the power drops for the upper yard. Need to pick up some more wire to finish the drops before I route the buss. The yard will be 5 circuits. 1 for the yard, one for an industry track and 3 engine house tracks.





































Got the cork down for the coal branch #8 LH curved turnout (Shinohara) I still need to modify/rewire the turnout for DCC. My question is this....The 2 inner rails at the frog are continuous and will have a single polarity determined by the position of a switch (Tortoise) Do I need to cut the rails to completely isolate and power at the frog, or can I simply isolate both inner rails to the end of the turnout and power that entire section via the switch position?




























Also included a pic of the 10' long coal branch.










The town at the far end of the branch line










And a couple pics of the ore/gravel mine with the cars all lined up for loading.


----------



## trnfn69

Looking good :thumbsup: Kinda jealous if my basement ever gets done I can start my layout.


----------



## sstlaure

My basement isn't finished. Probably won't for a couple of years. Just cement floors and poured concrete walls for now.

When I do I'll be expanding this layout greatly! The way I'm building this with fascias I shouldn't even have to touch many of the walls (from a drywall standpoint.) as they'll be completely covered with backdrop, etc.


----------



## Steve441

sstlaure said:


> My basement isn't finished. Probably won't for a couple of years. Just cement floors and poured concrete walls for now.
> 
> When I do I'll be expanding this layout greatly! The way I'm building this with fascias I shouldn't even have to touch many of the walls (from a drywall standpoint.) as they'll be completely covered with backdrop, etc.


Brilliant Idea - It's gonna be GREAT! - Steve


----------



## kursplat

track works commin' along well :thumbsup:


----------



## [email protected]

You guys make my floor rig look silly...wait, I am silly...


----------



## sstlaure

It's fun having room to spread out, that's for sure.


----------



## sstlaure

*The train set that started all of this 30+ years ago*

Presenting.....the Cox Armored Attack Express


----------



## Xnats

Is this the Cox set that was here on MTF a few weeks back Scott? It looks nice being back in action :thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

Nope....this is the original one my father gave me back in 1978. 

I want to restore and re-motor the engines and convert to DCC (I have (2) of these engines), and convert all the cars to metal wheels and kadee-style couplers eventually.


----------



## Kilian

I have a question. In a few posts back I thought I saw a DC control. But you have DCC to? I am doing DCC with the NCE controller. I am worried about soldering as I have never done it before. 

And you connect the wiring with a blue connector - what is that? Could you use a marrett?


----------



## sstlaure

I've got DC hooked up to the layout right now while I'm putting everything together, but I already have all of the DCC stuff I need to convert it over. My kids like to run Thomas, Percy, etc while I'm working on the layout and they aren't DCC converted yet, so I've kept the DC powerpack in-place until I get the time/energy/money to convert the rest of my engines to DCC. 

The blue connector is called a suitcase connector and you close them using a large set of slip-lock pliers. You put the wires in the connector, then seat a metal clip that pierces the wire isolation of each wire, then you simply close the outer blue "flap" that is left to keep everything locked together. 

Not sure what a marrett is. Is it a Japanese Mallett?


----------



## raleets

sstlaure said:


> I've got DC hooked up to the layout right now while I'm putting everything together, but I already have all of the DCC stuff I need to convert it over. My kids like to run Thomas, Percy, etc while I'm working on the layout and they aren't DCC converted yet, so I've kept the DC powerpack in-place until I get the time/energy/money to convert the rest of my engines to DCC.
> 
> The blue connector is called a suitcase connector and you close them using a large set of slip-lock pliers. You put the wires in the connector, then seat a metal clip that pierces the wire isolation of each wire, then you simply close the outer blue "flap" that is left to keep everything locked together.
> 
> Not sure what a marrett is. Is it a Japanese Mallett?


Scott,
Now THAT'S funny! Got my first good grin of the day off that one!
Bob


----------



## log0008

looking good so far, enjoying the updates!


----------



## joed2323

Scott what are you using for lighting underneath top deck for lighting up lower deck?


----------



## sstlaure

I used some of the string LED lights - they're a bit dim (but they were cheap) I'd be willing to bet the higher end models are brighter. I got them in 6' lengths at Home Depot


----------



## joed2323

What did u pay for those? 

I can get 4 foot fluro lights for bout 10-12 bucks. Only thing is they might be a tad big mounted underneath. I like the idea of the rope lighting, smaller profile


----------



## sstlaure

Not sure if these are the exact ones, but the price is about right. ($14)

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25e...Display?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=LED tube&storeId=10051


----------



## joed2323

Starting your helix height.

All you did was space blocks 90 degrees apart on first loop?

So the first block starting the grade up was 1 inch tall?
Then another 90 degrees apart the next block height is 2 inch?
The next block height is cut to 3 inch tall.
then the next block is using the 3.5 width of the 1x4?

Im trying to understand this correctly..
as the first grade loop sets the grade for the remaining helix loops. I know the first loop is the most important since after i get to 3.5 height it turns into peice of cake.


----------



## sstlaure

You got it.....(with no posts this weekend, I was expecting you were making some serious progress  )

Use the 4 blocks to set the grade (call it 0, 90, 180 & 270, then if you think you need a little more support at the bottom, go back and put in additional supports between the 4 blocks @ 45, 135, 225 and 305 degrees (so that you would have 8 supports separated by 45 degrees of circle each.) Attach them to the roadbed first, then to the benchwork.

Looking back at the pics I have it looks like I've got them every 45 degrees as described (but I set the grade with the first 4, then just filled in the gaps for support.


----------



## joed2323

Lol. Ive been making some progress, just not as much as i wanted or thought i could do.
the old lady has been winey about me being in the basement alot so ive been taking it easy downstairs lately ... i get more work done when shes at work haha  i call her the (party crasher)

Ok, thats what i wanted to hear about the grade. I guess it just seemed steep for some reason in my head gaining a inch every 90 degrees.

Another thing, im not quite sure how im gonna brace the loop going over main if i offset the helix turns once i gain enough altitude, only way i can maybe do it is just brace off the outside of the bottom loop, kind of what you did with bracing oneside.

Because my bottom helix loop will be set at around 26.5 outermost arch, then puts the track at 24


----------



## sstlaure

If you're at 24" inside the helix, then I'd definitely open it up to go over the outer radius as you climb. Make sure you're laying the track and doing the wiring as you go up (don't build the whole helix, then try to lay cork/track and wiring.

You can also just use the 3.5" blocks to set the spacing between the tracks and run a `1x4 up the outside of the helix and run screws into the side facing of the 1/2" plyboard.


----------



## raleets

joed2323,
Just curious......where are you located in MIchigan?
Thanks,
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

Got back into things the past few days. Gave the track a good thorough cleaning and got the trains running nice again. I've started soldering in the drops for the upper yard and have probably half of them done. 

Picked up some miscellaneous stuff since the last update so I will include some random pics of the table with everything piled on it. Also included some pics of the Armored Attack Express.


----------



## joed2323

scott i like your fire station you have planned out, nice... pikestuff fire station?

I also like your ore mine, nice, is this the same mine you suggested i get for my layout or?

You have a very nice selection of rolling stock, seriously if you ever plan to sell some cars you may not need or just want to help a brother out with, let me know 

Where did you pick up those michigan style ore cars? point me to the right direction please

btw, your layout looks awesome as usual, i think anyone could be jealous just looking at your layout


----------



## brik-el

Lookin' good man, real good!

I love those small ore cars, they're awesome to watch.

:thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

joed2323 said:


> scott i like your fire station you have planned out, nice... pikestuff fire station?
> 
> I also like your ore mine, nice, is this the same mine you suggested i get for my layout or?
> 
> You have a very nice selection of rolling stock, seriously if you ever plan to sell some cars you may not need or just want to help a brother out with, let me know
> 
> Where did you pick up those michigan style ore cars? point me to the right direction please
> 
> btw, your layout looks awesome as usual, i think anyone could be jealous just looking at your layout


Those ore cars are Walther's Goldline - I've got quite a bit invested in those (24) cars....however, I do have (8) older michigan ore cars (hook/horn couplers and plastic wheels) that I'd let go for $25 for the set + shipping. They all have boxes.


----------



## sstlaure

AHM Ore Cars




























Couple of yard views - all powered up.....


----------



## sstlaure

joed2323 said:


> scott i like your fire station you have planned out, nice... pikestuff fire station?
> 
> I also like your ore mine, nice, is this the same mine you suggested i get for my layout or?
> 
> You have a very nice selection of rolling stock, seriously if you ever plan to sell some cars you may not need or just want to help a brother out with, let me know
> 
> Where did you pick up those michigan style ore cars? point me to the right direction please
> 
> btw, your layout looks awesome as usual, i think anyone could be jealous just looking at your layout


Pretty sure I drew in the New River Mining Co for your mine (it's on sale right now)

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3017

The one shown is Glacier Gravel. 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3062

You can pick the goldline cars up at trainworldonline.com on sale for about $90 for (12) They'll have fixed knuckled everywhere except the very ends of the train. (run as a unit train) I updated them with knuckle couplers every (6) cars. There are (2) styles, ore cars and taconite cars, the tac cars are a little taller.

http://www.trainworldonline.com/cat...12-pack-chicago-north-western-oxide-932-40532


----------



## brik-el

I have some of those ore cars, mine are CN. 

:thumbsup:


----------



## Blade3562

That army train is so cool!


----------



## sstlaure

*Industry branch wiring*

Got the rest of the tracks down and in-place on the industry branch - had to rework one of the sidings and then make a #8 LH turnout work (didn't have any others left.) Got all of the power drops drilled and in-place, just need to solder them up tonight and I can have this part of the layout up and functional.


----------



## joed2323

i see somebody has been busy making progress.. looks good scott

what do you have planned on the industry going in this section?

i spent the day swapping a motor on my tiller adding a 25 foot section to my garden and actually tilling up my propane line coming from propane tank, wtf right, thank god i didnt cut the line, some retard had the line probably 4-6 inches in one section right where i hit the line, the rest of the line was down probably 1 1/2 feet. I should have realized but by the time i did i had the line wrapped up in the tiller, haha good thing i only bent it a tad, no i gotta wait till next week for them to come out and either re route line or put a splice in the copper tubing. 

jeeze i should have just stayed in the basement and worked/played with my trains


----------



## sstlaure

No kidding. I had to swap on the mower deck on my tractor this weekend (took a good hour) and mow the lawn. It takes 4.5 hours on a good day to mow the lawn (I'm just over 4 acres) I'm burnt to a crisp and feel it.

I then went to the Mother in laws tonight for Easter and got sucked into 2 hours of chainsaw work chopping down a big split crab-apple tree (almost fell on me) and clearing out the bottom of a large pine tree (about 8 limbs all 6" dia)

I'm beat and I have to run 8 miles in the morning (training for 1/2 marathon.) but here I am in the basement soldering up feeders 

This end will be a small town (unnamed at this point) with a small fertilizer company and a freight depot on the spur coming back at the camera. The far end is the ore mine. There will also be a small passenger depot along the mainline. I'd like to get one of those commuter trains with the car/engine at the back end.

The kids have been pushing cars and their dummy engines around on it for a couple of months. I then stole the turnout for use on the other side of the layout so it remained unfinished until now. 

I've got 14 feeders left to solder then I can run power to it and connect them to the buss line. I've already soldered 38 feeders today. I did probably 80+ feeders in the yard the other night, and I still need to wire up the 3 tracks at the engine house. I need to get another Atlas switch pack (Connector) to have enough circuits for everything to be shut off independently.


----------



## cabledawg

Scott, I was wondering what you are using for power distro? I went back through the thread but couldnt find anything specifc showing panels or switches. I know you broke everything out into divisions for troubleshooting and load distribution, and maybe it's there and I just missed it.


----------



## sstlaure

I'm temporarily using Atlas switches located on a couple panels. Simple on/off for each block. Eventually I'll make nice plexiglass displays and mount nice switches on a track diagram, but this will get things running to where I can simply improve on it in the future.

For the industry branch, I mounted a 3-switch Atlas connector underneath the benchwork and will always leave the circuits on unless I need to troubleshoot.

Here's a couple of pics of the "panel" I made a small shelf for the DC powerpack.


----------



## xrunner

sstlaure said:


> I then went to the Mother in laws tonight for Easter and got sucked into 2 hours of chainsaw work chopping down a big split crab-apple tree (almost fell on me) and clearing out the bottom of a large pine tree (about 8 limbs all 6" dia)


I cut down my next door neighbor's (dead) tree yesterday - it got roasted from the heat wave in TX last summer, and my arm is about to fall off. The chain saw I have seems to flood easily and it required too many pulls to clear the flooding and then to start it. Ugh. Got 'r done though. Glad to hear you got time to work on your layout. Looks good.


----------



## sstlaure

xrunner said:


> I cut down my next door neighbor's (dead) tree yesterday - it got roasted from the heat wave in TX last summer, and my arm is about to fall off. The chain saw I have seems to flood easily and it required too many pulls to clear the flooding and then to start it. Ugh. Got 'r done though. Glad to hear you got time to work on your layout. Looks good.


We've had some big winds come through the last couple of years. Took down 1/2 of my crab apple tree (about 20' in height worth) and took out a ton of the MIL trees. 

I didn't want those flooding/starting problems so I got a Stihl last year for Father's Day - incredible saw, even with only a 14" bar.


----------



## Kilian

Hey where did you get the 3M clips for your wiring feeders to e bus line. I assum 18/14 gauge ? I can't find them in Canada.


----------



## sstlaure

They're 20/14 and I get them at Lowe's. Home Depot doesn't carry them. I've had better luck with the Blue ones than the red ones although they are supposedly the same thing. (Different manufacturer - Red bought at Radio shack)

http://www.lowes.com/pd_133078-1270...4294753702__s?Ntt=connector&page=2&facetInfo=

You can also order them online at Micromark, but they're a little more expensive.

http://www.micromark.com/suitcase-connectors-idc-905-red-pkg-of-25,8939.html


----------



## sstlaure

Some more pics of progress from this week. Finished up the wiring of the Ore Mine Industry Branch (need to come up with a good name still for the town) Ran some test trains around the layout from staging to the yard, then from the yard out to the Ore Mine. All the tracks, etc are working perfectly.

Also picked up a couple of new cars - Chattahoochi Industrial RR Wood pulp cars. Picked them up for under $12 each (Walther's gold line - regular price is $27 each) They were on the Bargain Barn on the Walther's website and I got an additional 10% off through my Dad (10% discount in your birth month)


----------



## bwoogie

Looking good!


----------



## brik-el

Keep up the good work.

Got any pics of the entire layout in one shot?


----------



## sstlaure

It's too big to get in one shot, but you get the idea from these....

This is the view from the SW corner. Length down the wall is ~16ft, across the island is ~10ft










This is looking into the main part of the layout facing east - Compared to the above pic, I'm standing at the NW corner of the layout facing East










Here's an overall view before I put the backdrops in....










Total size is ~16x16


----------



## Carl

Looks great.......your helper looks like he might need a Big Mack with fries for all his help.


----------



## sstlaure

One or both of my boys are always with me helping with the layout (or at least running trains around the table while Dad works.) That's my oldest in the pic, he likes to help me solder feeder wires (he feeds the solder into the tip) Great quality family time.


----------



## brik-el

Beautiful layout.

I forgot that I've seen the whole layout. It's still impressive.

I remember helping my dad out on his layout, it was a great bonding time. Especially when I was the conductor!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## joed2323

Look at that monster!!!  
one heck of a layout you guys have.. keep up the good work...
So i suppose the old lady doesnt mind if your down in the basement lost in your layout?? The old timers tell me there wife sends them to the basement!
Now if i can only get my old lady to be like that....


----------



## sstlaure

She's pretty good about that and if anything it gives her some quiet time in the evenings/weekends (which she doesn't get during the day - she's a stay at home mother and home-schools our kids - she's got her plate full that's for sure.) 

This layout is the smaller of the 2 already planned areas in the basement. I've got other expansion plans in mind for the rest of it. A guy has to have his hobbies.


----------



## cabledawg

sstlaure said:


> She's pretty good about that and if anything it gives her some quiet time in the evenings/weekends (which she doesn't get during the day - she's a stay at home mother and home-schools our kids - she's got her plate full that's for sure.)
> 
> This layout is the smaller of the 2 already planned areas in the basement. I've got other expansion plans in mind for the rest of it. A guy has to have his hobbies.


Good on ya for homeschooling :thumbsup: We have four that my wife homeschools. She's a busy woman 

Scott, the red and blue suitcase connectors are for different gauge wires. Just like crimp connectors, the blue should be for 14-20 gauge and the red for 18-22. Or something like that.


----------



## Prospect193

Awesome looking layout!! Wish I had that much room!!

Pat


----------



## bwoogie

sstlaure said:


> She's pretty good about that and if anything it gives her some quiet time in the evenings/weekends (which she doesn't get during the day - she's a stay at home mother and home-schools our kids - she's got her plate full that's for sure.)
> 
> This layout is the smaller of the 2 already planned areas in the basement. I've got other expansion plans in mind for the rest of it. A guy has to have his hobbies.




I told my mom I'm building a train layout and she's like "You should get married instead" i was like .... ?


----------



## sstlaure

bwoogie said:


> I told my mom I'm building a train layout and she's like "You should get married instead" i was like .... ?


Build the layout - now matter how carried away you get it's WAY cheaper than getting married


----------



## bwoogie

sstlaure said:


> Build the layout - now matter how carried away you get it's WAY cheaper than getting married


exactly. my philosophy is buy everything you want before you get married because after that... you're ruined for good. --- though i need to figure out a place to hide all my stuff so she doesn't try make me get rid of it all


----------



## sstlaure

*Home made grade crossing*

I saw some tongue depressors the other day and for some reason they looked like the perfect material to make some custom grade crossings with. A little work with an exacto blade a metal straight edge, my micro drill and some weathering powders and this is the result.

I think I'm going to try some thinned stains/watercolors to add more contract to the spaces "between" the boards and the bolt holes.

Also finally got my hands on the 210' Micro Engineering viaduct kit. At it's tallest the bridge will be right around 11" tall (~80 scale ft) and will be ~29" long (210 scale feet)

This bridge will connect my coal branch line to the main level of the layout and will span the fork of 2 rivers in a deep gorge. This will be one of the main scenes you see when you first view the layout as you descend the stairs into the basement.


----------



## Big Ed

They look good Scott.:thumbsup:

You going to make them for the sides too, right?


----------



## joed2323

Very nice. 

I made a 2 story dollhouse for my daughter and i made hardwood floors the same way actually.
I carved lines into the plywood floor the same way u did then stained the flloor
You couldnt even tell it was plywood, looked just like hardwood flooring

Btw, what color did you use? Looks very good


----------



## Carl

Great project....support the comment on reinforcement.....a elbow leaning on a layout, without sufficient support can result in some interesting results.


----------



## sstlaure

I'll also make side pieces. All I used was Mud colored weathering powder (one of the Tamiya 3-color containers - looks like a make-up kit)

Carl - not sure which comment on reinforcement you're referring to. Is there something I missed?


----------



## sstlaure

Started modifying the coal branch.

First a couple of before pics. I laid a layer of 1" foam at the bottom of the gorge and realized that I'd only be able to have 2-story bents with the space available. I had removed the fascia at this point.




























Here's the benchwork partially modified/removed. You can see the part I cut out sitting on the floor. It will go back in (1) 1x4 thickness down (3.5") to allow me to have 3-story bents on the above bridge.




























And here I'm cutting out a 10" wide by ~3' tall section of this wall to allow the backdrop to curve into the sidewall rather than the current 90 degree corner. Green is what I'm cutting out, orange is the new fascia. There's going to be a waterfall feeding the gorge located about in the middle of the new fascia.


----------



## joed2323

where did you find those tongue depressors, wally world? thats a great idea, i was trying to use pop sicle sticks glued together


----------



## sstlaure

Haha....my doctor's office. I figured my co-pay covered the cost of a couple tongue depressors. Had to get a shot to take care of some poison ivy I got into when I was trimming my Mother-in-law's trees.


----------



## joed2323

lmao, time to pay the dr a visit then...

I think they may have those at a medical supply store, i will have to check


----------



## sstlaure

Medical supply or a local pharmacy might have them as well.


----------



## sstlaure

*A little more destruction*

So I took out the section of the wall behind the branchline that I wanted to remove. The backdrop still curves really tight here so I may move the wall one more stud back (I'd like to get another 12" out of the wall to smooth the backdrop and give some depth to this particular scene.)


----------



## Gansett

I love it, take out a wall so the trains run better..:thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

It's not an important wall  More of a "divider" really.


----------



## joed2323

you need to buy a ticket to enter scotts basement

Id rather go there then to a amusement park


----------



## sstlaure

My dad made some custom decals and decorated the box truck up to match Reid Milling.


----------



## joed2323

Sssaaawwweeet


----------



## sstlaure

Finished up the modification to the lower benchwork tonight and laid in some temporary foam to get an idea of the contours of the gorge and surrounding hills. 

The piece of track that is missing in a few of the photos is the proposed bridge and will be about 29" long and about 11" high at it's highest point to the river.

Modified Benchwork




















Two Rivers Gorge

































































Gorge without bridge


----------



## joed2323

Wow that bridge will look impressive going across that gorge..

What era are you modeling scott? I cant remember if you stated the era being modeled?
Your layout inspires lots of people, i know it inspires me and gives me motivation every time i see your layout progress


----------



## broox

Looks amazing man.

My Son just caught a glimpse of it, now he wants me to build one like this! haha


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks. Modelling freelance modern era. But this is a Branchline of a larger system, so I'm allowing myself to use some older styles in this section (cut stone portals/abutments, etc) The abutments I have for the Two Rivers Gorge Bridge have a 1909 plaque on them so I imagine this bridge as a steel (more permanent) replacement for an original wooden trestle serving a coal mine and logging operation in the mountains.

I may even put in some fake pilings into the riverbed where the wooden trestle used to be.


----------



## wilson44512

Looking Awesome:smilie_daumenpos: Cant wait to see it done!!!


----------



## sstlaure

wilson44512 said:


> Looking Awesome:smilie_daumenpos: Cant wait to see it done!!!


Thanks....but don't hold your breath. This may take awhile


----------



## wilson44512

sstlaure said:


> Thanks....but don't hold your breath. This may take awhile


A little progress is better then no progress I'm learning on how long it takes working on mine. lol


----------



## sstlaure

Absolutely....when are these things really DONE anyway?


----------



## brik-el

I can not wait to see that gorge all finished up.

You could have a couple of daredevils diving of that peninsula!!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

My boys want some fisherman down in the gorge plucking out some keepers  I may try to make a white-water type of scene with kayakers as well. Haven't made much progress since the last update. Working long hours 7 days/week right now on a new vehicle launch (2013 Ford Escape) I slipped the last bit of work in between (2) business trips after everyone went to bed.


----------



## cabledawg

I hear ya on that one. I dont work 7 days a week, but the house we bought had been kinda neglected for awhile and we've been making alot of progress, but it's time consuming to fix up old stuff. Just when you think you've made a little headway, you find something else that needs work. I love home ownership =)


----------



## [email protected]

Great thread! I will make real progress someday...maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Bman

Looks great Scott, just getting caught up on your layout and the progress you have made. Really cool how you decided to remove some of the wall in order to fit the layout...that's hardcore :thumbsup::thumbsup: for that one!!


----------



## sstlaure

I've still got to take another 18" or so out of the wall before it's where I want it  Need to go borrow my friends sawzall. Mine broke. 

It's not as hardcore as it would appear. It's basically a half-hearted attempt by the previous owner to create a "room" in the basement. I think at one point it was finished because I can see the adhesive residue on the floor as well as remnants of some kind of ceiling material (all gone now - just looks like a poured basement.) The "wall" was made of a collection of materials he obviously had sitting around. 

I probably should have just removed it when I started, but I got too excited and built around it.


----------



## TONOFFUN80

nice progress

been out awhile glad to see your making progress


----------



## joed2323

always great to see new pics of your layout scott:thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

I'll have to take some new pictures. I've taken out the rest of that wall that was in my way....


----------



## sstlaure

Alright....finally an update with some pics. In these pics you can see the newly "modified" wall which will allow the backdrop to curve more smoothly in the transition from the peninsula to the coal branch.

I also took some different angles trying to catch the overall size of the layout and a couple of the "other" room in the basement which will eventually get sucked into this hobby 

Enjoy!


----------



## wilson44512

WoW looking good You got a lot more done.


----------



## Ranger

looking good


----------



## joed2323

Looks awesome like always scott.

Question, with your layout being big how do you decide what part of your layout you will work on everytime you adventure down into the basement where all the fun happens? 
Some people finish one section at a time, some people skip around here and there. I guess it doesnt really matter as long as we have fun with our layouts right..


----------



## sstlaure

I usually skip all over the place, but with an overall goal in mind. I really need to spend a night just cleaning things up, then I'll tackle getting the remaining backdrops in place. 

I've only got 2 sections left to complete before all of them are up (coal branch and ore mine branch) I then want to fill/sand them and paint them blue. After that I want to finish all of the fascias and get them sanded/painted as well.

I can easily start the real finish work (roads, dirt, ground cover, etc) in the smaller town and ore mine, although I still have to finish sculpting in the mine pit once the backdrop is in place.

One other big construction type job I still need to do is to create the upper fascia and lighting. I haven't completely figured out how I want that executed yet but I've got ideas 

Oh yeah, and I need to build the big bridge to span the Two Rivers Gorge. That one may take a little while.


----------



## BigTank216

Amazing! puts my little 6x9 layout i'm planning to shame. 
Wish i had more room.
Well Built


----------



## sstlaure

thanks Bigtank and everyone else....

Here's what I've been working on lately 

I've installed the backdrop on the coal branch. I put the first coat of mud on all of the screw holes and seams last night. 





































I reinstalled the yard backdrop










And now I'm working on the Two Rivers Gorge Bridge. It's the Micro Engineering Tall Steel Viaduct kit. I plan on putting in longer ties every 8scale feet or so so that I can add a walkway. I will probably use Code 83 bridge track to get the tighter tie spacing (Unless someone knows of Code 100 Bridge track) 





























I plan on also adding the inner guard rails along the length of the bridge like I did with the girder bridge I built. If I have Code 100 rails I'll use Code 83 for the guards, if Code 83 then I'll pick up a little Code 70.



















Here's the bridge sitting on the template I'm using. This is (4) of the total of (7) 30 ft spans for a total length of 210 scale feet. You can see that this end of the bridge is curved (around 30" radius) The remaining (3) spans will be straight off of the left side of the curve.


----------



## xrunner

Thanks for the update. Very interesting. Nice craftsmanship. Look forward to seeing your progress.


----------



## sstlaure

Well....I have all (7) 30' spans and (2) of the support bents built so I am able to begin the mock-up of the river gorge to figure out the heights of the other (4) supports. 

The bridge will have (2)-3 story bents, (3)-2 story bents and (1) single story bent.

A=abutment, #=height of bent

A_2_3_2_1_3_2_A

Parts are just taped in place at the moment. This bridge will get fully painted, detailed when finished.


----------



## brik-el

I love love love that bridge.

It will look so awesome over that fast flowing river.

Keep up the good work.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Ranger

That is going to be an awesome looking bridge


----------



## sstlaure

Finished up the assembly of this bridge. I also comes with metal bridge shoes (nice detail piece). I don't want to paint it yet as I'll have to handle it quite a bit while getting in the land contours/scenery.


----------



## trnfn69

Looking great.:thumbsup:


----------



## joed2323

wow scott, looking good as usual, keep up the excellent work bro


----------



## wilson44512

Its starting to come around!! Good job:thumbsup:


----------



## BigTank216

Look's great.. very nice work love the bridge spans....


----------



## sstlaure

thanks everybody :thumbsup:


----------



## zorba

wow, i wish i had that kind of space, money, time and skill to do something of that magnitude.

look forward to seeing it with some texture etc, and of course the inaugral video of the trains going.


----------



## sstlaure

I've tried a couple times uploading some video to youtube, but for some reason I can never seem to make it work. I'll have to take some new video and give it a try again (the vids I have are really old)


----------



## Mr.Buchholz

BigTank216 said:


> Look's great.. very nice work love the bridge spans....


Yah! That bridge and the landforms underneath look amazing so far! Keep up the construction (and the pics!).

-J.


----------



## joed2323

I know you have been extremely busy with work but have you been able to work on your layout or get anything new accomplished? If not its kewl, just wondering


----------



## sstlaure

Unfortunately, no....no progress to report. Stupid work.


----------



## tccarson

Looking forward to more pictures as you progress!
TC


----------



## jaymack1

Whew after look through all that... I am not sure what I want to do, but I know I want to get started... guess I could start with my staging yard... Get my cars lined up on the walls..


Looks great!! Look forward to seeing more of it.

Jay


----------



## sstlaure

I got bit by the bug HARD


----------



## yellowiron

*Just Awesome*

Scott
I just looked at this entire build thred,and 1 word comes to mind AWESOME.

Thanks for sharing everything that you have done,Ok I understand that you got hit by the bug ,but that was over 2+ weeks ago,up and atem kid,you got me hooked on your build so lets go .
All kidding aside Scott,this is fantastic what you are doing,hope your feeling better.now lets get posting,I mean building,I mean oh forget it:appl:you know what I mean..
Thanks again
Mike


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks for the kind words. I'll make more progress on it as the weather gets colder and there are less things for me to do outside.


----------



## KAL5

wow thats some nice bench work great planning went into all that. Theres going to be a lot of action on that layout


----------



## Bman

Just by looking at the way you've laid out the foam board under the two rivers bridge I can picture just how awesome that is going to look. 

It's easy to tell you have planned this layout in a very detailed and thought-out manner. :thumbsup::thumbsup: to you.

And go Tigers!!


----------



## sstlaure

Some of it was planned...some of it is just working out well (with some wall modifications, etc  )


----------



## norgale

I've been looking through this thread and that is one magnificent railroad. Really great work Lears. I have to say that I would kill for a basement like that. I would live down there and have trains running all day and all night. That would be as close to heaven as I'll ever get. Pete


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Pete (but Lears didn't help me with it  )


----------



## Big Ed

Come on pour the water already!


----------



## sstlaure

My back has been in bad shape for the last 6 weeks, so I haven't made any progress. Sorry to disappoint, but it's tough to work on the layout when I can't support myself bent over or squatting.


----------



## joed2323

Ouch man, sorry to hear the bad news, I was thinking you must of added on to the layout by now, extending it all the way around your whole basement and building up another helix or two:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## norgale

sstlaure said:


> Thanks Pete (but Lears didn't help me with it  )


I thought I did that after I sent the post. Got Lears mixed up with laure I guess. Sorry about that. pete


----------



## sstlaure

Wow...has it really been this long since an update?

I've been working the last couple of days cleaning up my track and engines. All the engines need a good, detailed clean and lube job and after inspecting a number of my cars, the wheelsets on those could use a good polish as well. 

As I was running the CMX cleaning car (my Father's car) I found a kink and a lifted section of track within my helix so I also did a little dremel work to fix the kink and put in some extra strategic spikes to flatten the lift. Seems to have done the job.

I've got a ton of my cars off the track and sitting on the benchwork right now waiting to be cleaned. You don't realize how many cars you have until you line them all up. Yikes.

I'll have to get some pics tomorrow night. Getting late and have to hit the sack - for work tomorrow comes early.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Fantastic work from the board construction to the bridge. You are a craftsman my friend. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of it come together.


----------



## trnfn69

Odd question for you Scott, do you power your switches on the staging level or just go manual?


----------



## sstlaure

They are all currently controlled with a Caboose Ind manual switch throw or moved with my finger and held in place via friction. 

I do have a number (maybe 20) of tortoise switches which I will eventually put in the hard to reach spots on this layout or I'll use them when my layout expands into the rest of the basement.

Wiped out on my camera a couple weeks back while skiing in Utah - oops - won't be any pictures for a bit.....


----------



## trnfn69

Thanks. Just trying to get some ideas if it's worth powering them on staging or just on the main level when the time comes. I'm thinking I'll probably pre drill holes for tortoise's in case I decide to power later on. Your work on your layout is just amazing.:thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks. I'd probably just try to plan as if you were going to power them (make sure no braces, etc are beneath the turnout) and put the holes in through the sub-roadbed so that if you ever did want to power them you could.

I need to get back to work on this thing - it's been sitting for awhile now.

My theory is power the ones that are hard to reach, leave the rest manual. (Unless you want all your turnouts DCC remote control, etc.)


----------



## joed2323

sstlaure said:


> I need to get back to work on this thing - it's been sitting for awhile now.
> 
> (Unless you want all your turnouts DCC remote control, etc.)


I agree 100% 

You have alot of folks on here including me that look up to you scott and your impressive layout and skills:thumbsup: Everybody wants to be just like scott

I know how life gets in the way with our hobbies, but hopefully you can eventually get some time to yourself to get some progress done, i love seeing new pictures of your layout..


----------



## outlaw bill

WOW!!! Have read the whole thread and am impressed. That is one slick layout! Am waiting to see more progress. Job well done.


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks guys


----------



## David-Stockwell

sstlaure said:


> thanks Bigtank and everyone else....
> 
> Here's what I've been working on lately
> 
> I've installed the backdrop on the coal branch. I put the first coat of mud on all of the screw holes and seams last night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reinstalled the yard backdrop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now I'm working on the Two Rivers Gorge Bridge. It's the Micro Engineering Tall Steel Viaduct kit. I plan on putting in longer ties every 8scale feet or so so that I can add a walkway. I will probably use Code 83 bridge track to get the tighter tie spacing (Unless someone knows of Code 100 Bridge track)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I plan on also adding the inner guard rails along the length of the bridge like I did with the girder bridge I built. If I have Code 100 rails I'll use Code 83 for the guards, if Code 83 then I'll pick up a little Code 70.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the bridge sitting on the template I'm using. This is (4) of the total of (7) 30 ft spans for a total length of 210 scale feet. You can see that this end of the bridge is curved (around 30" radius) The remaining (3) spans will be straight off of the left side of the curve.


Hi Scott, I saw you used bridge track on that newly built Deck girder bridge. It looks great, thats a nice job you did on that bridge!!:appl: I posted a thread in the Technical listing asking if anyone had dimensions for HO bridge track and I was wondering if you would be so kind as to measure the tie length and height!! PLEASE!!! and let me know in that thread. I'm building a bridge that I need to be sure there's enough room for the bridge track. Thanks much ahead of time!!:laugh:
Cheers, Dave
Cheers, Dave


----------



## sstlaure

David-Stockwell said:


> Hi Scott, I saw you used bridge track on that newly built Deck girder bridge. It looks great, thats a nice job you did on that bridge!!:appl: I posted a thread in the Technical listing asking if anyone had dimensions for HO bridge track and I was wondering if you would be so kind as to measure the tie length and height!! PLEASE!!! and let me know in that thread. I'm building a bridge that I need to be sure there's enough room for the bridge track. Thanks much ahead of time!!:laugh:
> Cheers, Dave
> Cheers, Dave


Ties are 3mmx3mm square, 40mm in length, 1mm between ties. The top ties (running parallel to rails) are spaced 5mm outboard of the rails and have the same 3x3 dims as the ties.

I used Code100 main rail and Code83 for the inner guard rails.

Also posted this in your thread....


----------



## two81's

Any progess on this build. Went thru all 30 pages in two nights. Found this thread after doing a search on "running multiple trains". Great work again. Would you have a wiring diagram and a function. Trying to get an idea on requirements for multiple trains. Thanks


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Hi Scott -- Fabulous post and amazing workmanship so far. Like everyone else, I'm jealous too. But like everyone else, I'm starving for more. I'm guessing you feel some burnout or maybe there are health issues keeping you from working on this masterpiece. Certainly you need to take care of number one first. Just drop a line and let us common folk know you are still involved with this project and that we may see more progress at some point in time. Thanks Buddy.


----------



## California RailFan508

Hats off to your awesome work, sstlaure. Your layout will be epic indeed once it is fully completed and trains are making laps around.


----------



## joed2323

Scott works long hours, and has been pretty busy enjoying summer. Im sure he has made some progress on his layout but hasnt updated his thread yet...

Give scott some time, once he sees how many of us are eagerly awaiting his arrival and updates im sure he will show us some progress...us 

He usually stops by on this forum daily but it is kinda odd he hasnt been on here in over a week

Here in michigan we dont get much time to enjoy the warm summer months, we, well myself for sure spend more time doing summer activites and my layout gets put on hold but before you know it us michaganders will be confined to our basements once the cold weather/snow starts to fly and we will be making lots of progress


----------



## sstlaure

Holy crap....I usually do check the forum every couple of days but time just got away from me. Thanks for all the kind comments on the layout....

I took on a new job in April with more responsibilities (promotion to Supervisor and the vehicle launch I'm responsible for is in Hermosillo, MX) and haven't had much time for the layout. What little progress I have made I haven't been able to take pics of because I trashed my camera while skiing in the spring (if you're not falling, you're not skiing fast enough  )

No health issues, just life getting in the way. Between work and working on my home/property it leaves little time for much else.

Thanks for the concern and hopefully I'll do SOMETHING on this sucker soon.


----------



## Gordon the big engine

That is really cool, I wish I had that much space!


----------



## sstlaure

If you've got a house with a basement, you should have this much space. 

When I moved into this house from my old one I took stock in all of the crap that had accumulated over time and realized I was storing a TON of things for no reason at all. 

I decided that I was just going to donate anything that hadn't been touched in awhile. Most of the stuff donated had sat in the basement, piled on shelves or around the floor without being touched for 3-5 years previous.

I dropped off (5) 8' bed truckloads of stuff piled high and tied down at the local Salvation Army. They didn't have enough room for it inside and so they just lined it down one of the exterior walls until they could get it all in. The stuff was probably 10' deep along 30' of wall. We got rid of old stereo equip, TV's, furniture, knick-knacks, decorations, clothing (probably 6-7 bags full)on and on and on.

In the (2) years since I've done this I don't think there is a single item that I have missed. 

In my basement now I have a 5' whirlpool tub (pulled from an upstairs bathroom during a remodel), (2) broken HUGE freezers and a non-functional heat pump (left by the previous owner)

Once I get around to getting that crap out of the basement - I'll have another space at least equal to what I have already used available. 

My long-term plan is to take over most of the basement. I'll maintain a single living room down there without trains, but I'll maintain a ton of storage in the trainroom part of the basement by using clear plastic totes so I can see the contents and having them stored under the benchwork.

A little organization goes a long way.


----------



## Mike4xdriver

All I have to say is WOW. That is impressive. I have more room than you do but I am no where near as creative as you. I am just getting started and your layout almost scares me. Im going pretty basic for now but have plans in my head for a huge layout. Awesome work and I cant wait to see the next update. You are an inspiration for us newbies.


----------



## joed2323

scotts a inspiration to alot of modelers he just doesnt know it:cheeky4:


----------



## sstlaure

Thanks Joe....hey - Not sure exactly where in the UP you're located, but I was up your way this last weekend (St. Ignace, Whitefish Point, etc.) Did the 50th Anniversary Mackinac Bridge walk.


----------



## joed2323

Im located near the MI/WI border , so im about 2 to 2 1/2 hours from the bridge. Your crazy walking that bridge


----------



## David-Stockwell

joed2323 said:


> Im located near the MI/WI border , so im about 2 to 2 1/2 hours from the bridge. Your crazy walking that bridge


Hello Joe,

If Scott was crazy, he was joined by a few thousand other people. OR WERE YOU JUST JOSHING HIM??:laugh: I looked online about it and the bridge is 5 miles long. Of course I know nothing about the walk I couldn't do it myself but I used to walk 10 miles on hunting trips when i was younger in Indiana. 
Cheers, Dave


----------



## sstlaure

The deck is over 200' above the water and underfoot is metal grating (so you see right through it.) Add to that the 20mph+ winds and it was quite the experience.

The whole family did the walk. It was a great time.


----------



## joed2323

No i meant he was freakin nuts, crazy stupid... J/k. Yes that bridge is one of the longest suspension bridges in the world, it was the longest at one point, but i believe its the 4th largest nowadays. 

Ive driven across the bridge a few times, and yes it gets windy up their, the outside lanes are cement and the inside lanes are grated like scott states. 

Back in 1989 a Yugo blew off the bridge from the high wind, obviously that women died. I think in 1997 a suv went over as well in a apparent suicide.

That bridge is intense when the wind picks up, It gets shut down alot in the winter due to high winds.


----------



## Big Ed

I had to look this bridge up. 

Built in 1957, the bridge is a symbol of a time when America still built magnificent structures and remains the world’s 3rd longest bridge in total suspension today. And for one day each year the bridge is converted from a purely vehicular affair into a pedestrian spectacle which has to be experienced to fully appreciate.


----------



## sstlaure

The tip of those towers is 520+ ft up. She's a mighty big bridge. It was a great experience.


----------



## 05Slowbalt

We need more sstlaure. This hobby is like a drug I need a fix more pictures lol.


----------



## joed2323

Sadly mr scott has been way to busy with work from what i hear.

Scott is your job ever going to allow you to leave mexico and come back to michigan? We need you home so you can work on your layout and make everyone jealous with your progress.

I know this is personal but hows the wife and kids doing with you away on business in mexico, its gotta be hard on the little ones no? I know its hard on us and we cant take it any longer


----------



## sstlaure

I spend a week away and a few weeks back. They spend most of the summer up north at the lake (near Traverse City) anyway, so they don't miss me too much.

I've got a 12x16 shed being delivered tomorrow which will allow me to empty my garage...which then allows me to empty the basement up into the garage (to sell/donate, etc the stuff coming out of the basement.) Once the cleanup is complete, it's possible that in the near future (winter maybe) I'll be finishing the basement and reworking things down there for a large expansion project.

Once I can get things out of the basement and clean things up, I'll probably make some more progress. I haven't figured out what I want to work on next, but you're right - I do need to do SOMETHING on this sucker.


----------



## Big Ed

It makes me tired just reading about all that moving. 
But it seems that is all I do my whole life, clean up one mess and then there is always another to clean. When I finally get done the first thing I cleaned up is messy again.
It is a never ending battle, :smokin:


----------



## sstlaure

Cripes.....life has a way of sucking up time doesn't it....

On the bad news - I haven't had much time for the RR,

On the good news - recent work in my basement has removed the storage shelves adjacent to my layout and have been moved to the other side which means.........I now have more room for the layout - specifically an L-shaped area approx 19' on one leg and 20' on the other.

Layout area will now be totalling approximately 20'x24' and will be dedicated solely to trains. Once I get the walls painted up white I'll snap some pics with my wife's phone and will most them up....


----------



## norgale

sstlaure said:


> I spend a week away and a few weeks back. They spend most of the summer up north at the lake (near Traverse City) anyway, so they don't miss me too much.
> 
> I've got a 12x16 shed being delivered tomorrow which will allow me to empty my garage...which then allows me to empty the basement up into the garage (to sell/donate, etc the stuff coming out of the basement.) Once the cleanup is complete, it's possible that in the near future (winter maybe) I'll be finishing the basement and reworking things down there for a large expansion project.
> 
> Once I can get things out of the basement and clean things up, I'll probably make some more progress. I haven't figured out what I want to work on next, but you're right - I do need to do SOMETHING on this sucker.


That's funny.:hah: Buy a new shed for the back yard and fill it with stuff from the garage so you can fill the garage with stuff from the basement so you can have a bigger train layout.:appl::appl::appl: Now that's the kind of railroading I like to see. Obviously sst is stage four railroaditis syndrome and even frequent trips out of the country won't slow down the thrilling advances of this disease. At least this syndrom may be life extending as opposed to shortening so go to it buddy. Enjoy yourself.  Don't forget to post pictures. Pete


----------



## sstlaure

You liked how that worked......all a part of the master plan my friend.


----------



## joed2323

Sounds like your not in Mexico at the moment. No excuses this time work some long late hours in the basement for us picture hoarders


----------



## sstlaure

Yup...have the whole week off.

I'll be finishing the basement over my Christmas break, and once we catch up from all of the cost of the various repairs we're doing (roof, new roof insulation, fix chimney, purchase and install wood burning stove, etc.) I'll THEN get to start on the expansion of the layout room.

There will be a whole lot of planning on this last bit as I don't intend to tear it down.

I should have taken a couple of pics while that side of the basement was clear, but it's now stuffed with the things from the OTHER side. We're doing a massive clean-up/repaint of the basement to get rid of allergens in the house. Total sweep and wet-mop of the whole basement, stripped out all the insulation (and mouse nests) along the walls/rafters and remove 40+ years of cobwebs and dust.

Once I get the train side cleaned up again I'll snap some pics and post them up...


----------



## sstlaure

No pics yet, but here is a quick sketch of the overall area I'm working with.

Still planning on having an upper deck (just in the expansion area most likely....well at least until I change my mind. 

I'm thinking that the yard in the pic will be torn up and a large ore mine & small town will replace it. I've got the Walthers Ore Dock that I will place elsewhere as a matching industry. The mountains will now wrap around the end of the peninsula instead of ending at the backdrop of the previous scene.

The yard will move to the 24' long wall to maximize the area I can work with. It will be at a lower height and I'll probably make it wider (maybe close to 4') to accommodate the large facility buildings I have sitting on shelves currently (car shop, engine shop, office, fueling stations, etc.) 

The benchwork will follow the 24' wall before turning into the room to create a peninsula. The blob at the end will be as far into the room as I can go and will contain a helix within (to climb to upper level - 2 tracks) and will have trackage running around the exterior and back down the peninsula to the 24' wall to return to staging under the new main yard (which will then have a track which connects the new staging to the old staging yard.

I need to put pen to paper......


----------



## David-Stockwell

sstlaure said:


> No pics yet, but here is a quick sketch of the overall area I'm working with.
> 
> Still planning on having an upper deck (just in the expansion area most likely....well at least until I change my mind.
> 
> I'm thinking that the yard in the pic will be torn up and a large ore mine & small town will replace it. I've got the Walthers Ore Dock that I will place elsewhere as a matching industry. The mountains will now wrap around the end of the peninsula instead of ending at the backdrop of the previous scene.
> 
> The yard will move to the 24' long wall to maximize the area I can work with. It will be at a lower height and I'll probably make it wider (maybe close to 4') to accommodate the large facility buildings I have sitting on shelves currently (car shop, engine shop, office, fueling stations, etc.)
> 
> 
> The benchwork will follow the 24' wall before turning into the room to create a peninsula. The blob at the end will be as far into the room as I can go and will contain a helix within (to climb to upper level - 2 tracks) and will have trackage running around the exterior and back down the peninsula to the 24' wall to return to staging under the new main yard (which will then have a track which connects the new staging to the old staging yard.
> 
> I need to put pen to paper......


Hi Scott,
Your a man after my own heart!!!:appl: I love layouts with lots of reasons for doing switching and operation!!:thumbsup: The last one I had (before I tore it down) had scads of switching possibilities!! Back in the 1970's I made a little switching layout for a local meet here in California and had it on display for people to operate and offered a prize for the winner!! I've been toying with the idea of turning my bridge workbench area into a 3' X 9' N scale layout!hwell: And then stop building bridges!! :stroke: Decisions, decisions, decisions:dunno::dunno:The area is so small though that I would be using old steam era loco's like 2-6-0's and 4-6-0's and 2-8-0's


----------



## joed2323

You grace us with your presence finally and you draw us this quick lil 15 sec sketch with a blue ink pen, get us all excited with this huge expansion then walk out the door and never come back for days... what kind of engineer are you??:laugh::eyes:



j/k 
Its good to have you back in the swing of things, we needed something big to look at on the forum, hopefully you will be able to make progress and tease us with your pictures and make us all jealous as usual:hah:
I cant wait


----------



## sstlaure

I have to find my fine graph paper and do some work. I don't do the fancy pants software design deal.


----------



## 05Slowbalt

It is the disappearing act. I am good at it too!


----------



## DT&I

makes my project look a bit small. that's gonna be pretty cool when it's done


----------



## sstlaure

Size doesn't matter.....or so they say 

I'm lucky that I've got the room to work with and a wife that knows if I'm in the basement playing with the trains, that I'm not out getting into trouble.

I wanted something that I could endlessly build. I enjoy modelling and it always bothered me that I'd make a model and there was nothing to do with it after it was complete. With Model RR - each model adds to the total.


----------



## Chet

Looks like an interesting layout. Mine is also built as built as a switching layout. It gets old watching trains go in a circle. I have a yard and engine facility at each end of a point to point layout, with a hidden staging track (3 tracks) which will also allow continuous running. I very seldom run continuously except when the grand kids are over. I can leave one yard with a local freight and by the time I finish switching out the different industries, it can take a couple of hours.


----------



## sstlaure

Holy crap....has it REALLY been this long since I've done anything on the layout? Yikes.


----------



## DonR

Chet

You mentioned that you like to set a passenger train running
continuously as you operate in the yards.

I see your bet and raise you one. I often put together a 10 or 15 car
freight and let it run continuously then bring our my Desert Chief 
passenger headed by 2 F7s with stops at 4 stations running on the single
track main clockwise as the freight runs counter clock wise.

In the meantime, I have my switchers in the yards working a new
freight from my car card system.

I have 2 arms working, but I'm as busy as the proverbial
one armed paper hanger. It sure takes some rapid turnout
flipping to keep those rascals from bumping into
each other. It's not a Sunday afternoon walk in the park, but it
is fun.

As you can imagine my inept switchman is prone to botch
things up from time to time and I have to call out my
HOG crane to set things right.

Tell us, is your switchman doing a better job than mine?

I've tried to figure out a way to video it but the way my
layout is designed, I would constantly
be in the picture as I move among the 3 turnout control panels
and the 2 DCC controllers.

Don


----------



## MtRR75

sstlaure said:


> I have to find my fine graph paper and do some work. I don't do the fancy pants software design deal.


If you still have found your graph paper you can download and print free graph paper from the internet. Just search for "free graph paper".


----------



## Chet

About the only time I run more than one train is when the grand kids are over. I'll let them run a train using the hidden staging which allows for continuous running while I break down or put a train together in one of the yards. All but a few of the NP passenger cars are usually put away in their boxes. 

Once in a while I will also put some of my brass models which are usually stored away on the track and let them run for a while to keep them lubricated. I have some large steam, an NP Z-5 Yellowstone and a 5000 class challenger which would have never seen service on a short line railroad like mine. Also my turntables are only 90 footers, a bit short to trun these locomotives. 

I had considered DCC a while back, but being that I am usually the only one operating the layout it really didn't make sense. I would have bough a top of the line system, and then it would require a boosted. Also the time and $$$ to convert over 30 locomotives was another consideration. A lot of my old locomotives would need major alterations in order to make room for decoders. 

I figured that I would put the time and money into continuing to build the layout.


----------



## DonR

Chet

That magnificient layout cries for DCC.

It doesn't have to be ALL at once.

The layout can be 'switchable'. You already
have it wired for DC. To go with DCC all that
you'd need do is throw all of your block power
switches to ON for one source, then connect
your DCC controller to that. Turn off the
DC power packs unless you use them for
turnout and other accessory power. Until
you have several sound locos you likely
would not need a booster. If your trains are
running smoothly with the wiring you have they
should run even better with DCC.

You would want to be able to coral all of your
DC locos to a non powered track when running
DCC, tho some could run, DCC has that
capability.

Convert just a couple of easy locos. But, beware.
Once you see what DCC can do for you you'll want
to start converting the rest.

Gotta rush, DEA narcs are after me for pushing a
habit forming concoctrion, DCC. 

Don


----------



## Chet

*Dcc*

I travel quite a lot and visit model railroaders all over the country. I have operated on humongus club and private layouts with DCC and enjoyed it quite a lot. Many times we have had more than 20 trains operating at a time, controlled by dispatchers, with meets and time tables to keep. It was a lot of fun. 

I have a brass Z-5 Yellowstone that I custom painted for the Northern Pacific which a friend converted to DCC and installed Tsunami sound. I call it my traveling locomotive and take it on trips mainly to run on these great layouts I visit. He is a DCC nut and has visited me and in my case he admits the DCC really isn't necessary because almost all of the time I am only running one locomotive at a time. Everything is running flawlessly on my layout right now. 

As I mentioned earlier, if I had other model railroaders in the area interested in HO scale and were to have operating sessions I might consider it. As it is, I am a lone operator and with my friends estimate of $500 plus for the conversion not including decoders I'll pass. We had a long conversation about DCC. I would also go to sound if I were to change. I wouldn't start with a basic DCC set up. You get what you pay for and I would follow his recommendations for the conversion if I were to do it, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

I'll entertain myself with a single locomotive handling its switching duties. It keeps me occupied. My layout is a point to point with a single track main line. It goes from one yard, through the layout to another yard or into staging tracks. 

If a DCC addict actually admits that I don't really need it in my case, I'll take his word for it. 

Click on the caboose ride in my signature and it will give you an idea of my layout. I have over 30 industries in the layout, which was built as a switching layout. There are switching problems purposely built into each town to keep things interesting for me. 

Also, I would rather spend the money visiting other model railroaders and run on many great layouts (with DCC)

I really don't want to hijack this post. This conversation should be in the DCC section.


----------



## sstlaure

Well.....I'm 95% convinced I'm going to be tearing this layout up and starting over. I've been in the process of finishing my basement into usable space. Part of this usable space is a 19'x24' room dedicated to trains (current layout takes up about half of this right now.)

Plan will be an around the walls with peninsula, walk-in design. 
- (2) levels with full scenery and a staging level. 
- Trains will be able to continuously run from staging through the layout and back into staging via a helix at either "end" of the lower level. 
- There will be an additional helix to climb from lower to upper level and a turnaround loop...I may put in a removable bridge to get continuous running on the upper level as well.

I'll have to snap some pics of the space.

I'll start by building the lower staging along a couple of walls, then the helix, then lower level and finally I'll set the upper deck height. I'll be able to do all of this without tearing out the current layout so I can get part of the new layout up and running via DCC before I tear the current layout down.


----------



## norgale

Scott you have to start a build thread with this. It's a very ambitious project and I for one would love to follow it along. Hope you post a LOT of pictures and explain what your doing. Something like this could be a big help to others coming along behind you. Pete


----------



## Chet

Sounds a lot like what I have, except I only have one level. Mine is built as a point to point, with a yard and engine facility at each end, but also have hidden staging tracks that will allow for continuous running. I also have a drop down bridge across the walkway for the staging tracks. 

I built my layout for switching and don't use the cotinuous running option very often. 

Keep posting on this layout. Sounds interesting.


----------



## sstlaure

I'll definitely start a new layout thread. The Upper level will be about shoulder height, so I figure putting in a removable bridge would be an easy walk-under and then I can have trains running around both upper and lower levels at the same time.

It's gonna take a long time to get the track operational (I'm going to need to buy several hundred feet of track - will probably start with (3) boxes of 300'.) I want plenty of staging and trains of around 15 cars in length....so if you figure 10 staging tracks - that alone is 150' of straight track just in staging.

This layout has been on hold for awhile because of the basement remodel and waiting to figure out how much space I was going to have to work with.

I'm even going to pull out the remainder of that wall that I cut into so that I can just have a large space to arrange the track.

Location of the entry door and overall layout will somewhat follow this design. (just the shape of the space and location of helix) - For reference - Model Railroader Magazine, Sept 2014 issue - Cascade and Columbia River.

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2014/07/ho-scale-cascade--columbia-river-rr


----------



## norgale

Make sure that wall isn't holding up the building. You could end up with a basement full of house.


----------



## sstlaure

norgale said:


> Make sure that wall isn't holding up the building. You could end up with a basement full of house.


It's totally non-structural. I've already hacked a good 3 feet out of it. :laugh:

At some point in this homes past the basement was finished, then it all got torn out (except this one crappy wall.)

I should have pulled it out as soon as I moved into the place.

It will probably still be a bit before I start up the new build.....but with the living room side of the basement almost finished - it's definitely getting closer.

I already wired up additional lighting and a couple of 4-gang power boxes with dedicated circuits to drive all of my train goodies......


----------



## David-Stockwell

sstlaure said:


> Well.....I'm 95% convinced I'm going to be tearing this layout up and starting over. I've been in the process of finishing my basement into usable space. Part of this usable space is a 19'x24' room dedicated to trains (current layout takes up about half of this right now.)
> 
> Plan will be an around the walls with peninsula, walk-in design.
> - (2) levels with full scenery and a staging level.
> - Trains will be able to continuously run from staging through the layout and back into staging via a helix at either "end" of the lower level.
> - There will be an additional helix to climb from lower to upper level and a turnaround loop...I may put in a removable bridge to get continuous running on the upper level as well.
> 
> I'll have to snap some pics of the space.
> 
> I'll start by building the lower staging along a couple of walls, then the helix, then lower level and finally I'll set the upper deck height. I'll be able to do all of this without tearing out the current layout so I can get part of the new layout up and running via DCC before I tear the current layout down.


I think that's the dream layout that everyone wishes they had the space and money for!!:appl:
Dave


----------



## sstlaure

Looking forward to a much cleaner, easier to run and easier to build/finish layout.

I'm really going to concentrate on making the scenery easy to complete so I can get out of the plywood empire that I've been in for 3 years now....


----------



## norgale

Take your time Scott and plan ahead. Probably most important is electrical outlets and good circuit breakers. It's always fun to start a new layout. Pete


----------



## sstlaure

I've got (2) 15 amp circuits run under where the bench is and light circuits along the ceiling I can plug into. I plan on using mostly LED lighting to reduce the power draw.

Real nice thing is I have 100% access to the back of the wall that the outlets are installed in just in case I want to add additional circuits.

At some point here I'll bust out the graph paper and will start roughing in some stuff.

I do know that the main yard will be along the 24' wall, and there will be a decent intermodal truck/rail transfer yard at one end modelled after one I pass every day at work. (Nice low flat front building with some interesting roof features and a nice sign, a couple rows of containers, 2 rows of empty well cars to fill and trucks up the middle.)

In my main yard will also be a large engine/car service facility - I may buy the transfer table from Walthers to make fitting it in easier.


----------



## Magic

Scott that's going to be some layout. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Looking forward to the build thread. You do some very nice work.

Magic


----------



## cosmos2002

Sounds like you have a good plan and have done a lot of research. Having trains running on various levels is great. It will give a lot of life to your layout. It will be quite a feat though. Lots of tracks to lay and high level access required in corners, etc. Keep it up though and keep us posted on the progress.


----------



## sstlaure

This will be layout #3....so I'm starting to understand what I REALLY want....

My current layout was a big improvement over #1, but I really think this 3rd try will get me where I want to be (continuous running trains on 2 levels + operating switchers, etc. while they move around.)

My kids are getting bigger (8 & 11) and I want to get this going while they still want to "play" with me....I'm sure they'll probably catch the bug and do this as they get older as I did with my father. They already like the current layout, but the way it's set-up really limits the ability to run multiple trains without "conflict" between the Jr. Engineers on who has right-of-way 

Dual track mainline on both levels (with some single-track areas to make it interesting) is the plan. 2x the track, but great passing action....


----------



## sstlaure

Well.....Layout #2 is officially a thing of the past. Everything is boxed up and ready to move.

New home being built this summer. Not sure if I'll take over the 14x32 bonus room over the garage or a nice large chunk of the basement (new construction - 9 ft ceilings.)

It's taken me a couple of weeks to tear everything apart into moveable pieces. 

Probably won't get back to it for quite a while as you gotta have a home before you can build a layout. 

I'll be living in a 900 sq ft mobile home that is already on my new property while the house is being built.

New challenges but looking forward to my last home and a new layout.


----------

