# Polar Express & Fastrack Switch Issue



## Smokinjoe52 (Nov 8, 2013)

Hello to all,

I am a 61 year old retired former computer professional with an electronics background. I have modeled RC aircraft since the mid 70's. I purchased a Polar express freight system for around the Xmas tree last year.

This year I decided to expand the set a little, but again only around Christmas time, and still have one loop going around the Christmas tree. I want a little more exciting layout than a short oval around the tree. i decided to do 2 reverse loop backs with a side spur and an uncoupling track. I also added the souped up polar express tender.

So far the experience has not been good. The addition of the 2 036 manual switches and the 042 remote switch causes continuity issues, and the Polar express stops and goes into neutral about half the time it moves through a switch.

All track and switches are Lionel Fastrack, with the CW-80 transformer.

As an RC modeler, I am familiar with solving problems, but I have worked on this issue for several hours, and am now stumped. It almost seems like an insurmountable design issue.

I may end up going back to the oval if this is indeed a design issue. I joined this forum to educate myself regarding the latest technology, and also to maybe get some help regarding this problem. I was planning to get the track dialed in, then upgrade to at least a MTH remote commander with a nice protosound 3.0 locomotive, but not if the track behaves as it has been. (Maybe this issue goes away with a new locomotive running constant voltage on the rails?)

I have checked track voltages, continuity, etc, but don't know what to do next. 

Should I post this issue in the "o" gauge forum to get members help.

Thanks,

Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

First, welcome to the forum. 

What you're experiencing is not uncommon, many locomotives have issues with switches, it's something that we deal with all the time. It's indeed a design issue, but one that can be overcome.

The way I normally solve these is to add a pickup to the tender to provide power when the two locomotive pickups have lost contact. Can you tell us the exact Polar Express set you have? Also, pictures of the bottom of the locomotive and tender would be a big help in determining the best way to proceed.

As far as a different locomotive, each one will have potentially different pickup spacing and may or may not create a problem. I have locomotives that run perfectly on my Fastrack switches, yet stall on the train club Atlas switches, luck of the draw.


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## Smokinjoe52 (Nov 8, 2013)

Thanks John,

The specific model is the Polar Express FREIGHT set (6-30184), and the polar express tender (6-36847).


Since there is now only a mechanical connection between the locomotive and the tender, I am assuming you are saying that pickup(s) can be placed on the tender, and wired to the locomotive for loco power redundancy? If that is the case, it sound like a great solution, so I would need info or a thread showing how to do that. I'll take the pics and post them in the next hour or so.

Thanks for your help.


Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, you'd just need a single tether wire like many locomotives have to bring the power forward. The type of pickup parts you need would be based on what kind of trucks are on the tender. Typically, only one pickup on the rear truck would do it just fine, it spreads out the contact area and allows you to get power much more reliably.


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## Smokinjoe52 (Nov 8, 2013)

Hi John,

Here are pics of the locomotive and the tender. I also included a shot of the layout, although the straight between the mechanical switches will be longer when it is placed in the living room.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Even better, all you need is a wire between the pickups on the locomotive and tender. I'd probably recommend #20 or #22 "superflex" wire, it's the stuff with lots of fine strands and is very flexible. I also include a PTC to protect the wiring. Here's a suitable one for the task.

http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...=1&stock=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

You'll want a small connector between them so you can separate the tender and locomotive easily.


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## Smokinjoe52 (Nov 8, 2013)

The connections for the tender look obvious, and the center pickup for the locomotive. Now for the outside rail on the locomotive. Is the entire body common to the outside rail, so all I have to do is pick a screw that goes into metal and attach a lug? If not, I am assuming I need to tear the locomotive apart to attach the outside rail connection.

Also, I have not used PTC's before. Since the CW-80 transformer does such a good job of circuit protection, is it really needed in this case? Also, I assume 1 PTC in series with either tender pickup wire would do it?

Thanks


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## Smokinjoe52 (Nov 8, 2013)

John,

I just reread your post, and might have misinterpreted. Is it JUST the center pick-up that causes problems, and just the center pick-up that need to be brought forward from the tender? I was thinking I was going to bring the outer rail forward, but that might not be needed.

Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's typically the center pickup spacing. If by chance that still gives you problems, you can connect a wire (through the same connector, make it a 2-pin model) from the frames of the locomotive to the frame of the tender. Yep, the frame of either is common to the wheels.

FWIW, I typically run both if I need one, just to make sure. If you're running one, running the second is not much of a problem.

You probably don't need the PTC, it's just one of those boots-n-suspenders things I do. I've seen passenger car interior wiring cooked to a crisp because of derailments, so I don't take any chances.


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

Smokinjoe52 said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> I am a 61 year old retired former computer professional with an electronics background. I have modeled RC aircraft since the mid 70's. I purchased a Polar express freight system for around the Xmas tree last year.
> 
> ...


Had the same problem. The pickups on the 0-8-0 are to close together and the switch has the center power rail with a large enough gap to be a problem.

The simplest answer is to add "tender pickup". Put simply open the tender and locate the pickup wire that picks up from the center rail. Splice in a wire and run it to the front of the tender leaving your self some slack.

Open the loco and also locate a wire from the center pickup. Splice in a wire and run it to the back of the loco, again leaving some slack. In both cases make sure it clears all other gear and close them up. 

Now you can join the two wires using either quick disconnects, wire nuts, what ever you are comfortable with.

What happens is when the engine gets into the switch and both pickups are no longer in contact with the center rail the tender will still be in contact and passing electricity over the jumper wire.

Works great, it's what I did and it works perfectly.


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## Smokinjoe52 (Nov 8, 2013)

Thanks guys. It sounds like a sure fix. I'll put both wires in, as I have 2 pin micro connecotrs that should work great.

I'll report back on the results.

Also, just wondering if something like say the MTH Railking Imperial steamers have the same kind of redundancy built in?

Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Many of the newer locomotives have dual pickups at each location to minimize the issue. Note that for the micro connectors, make SURE you don't get them reversed, wires tend to melt very quickly when you connect them directly across the track!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Take one of the switches and 3 sections of track. Put the switch on a table and connect the three sections of track to the switch. Put the loco on the track and push it through the switch and observe with your Mark 1 eyeball what the pickup rollers do when the loco goes through the switch. If the rollers are not making contact with the center rail at some point, you should be able to observe this and take corrective action. 

If one roller is in contact with the center rail at all times, then it is likely you have an intermittent connection between the two pickup rollers. From the pictures, it appears the rollers are far enough apart to get through a switch without losing contact with the center rail.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Things are not always as they seem Bruce, this is a pretty common issue with the small switchers. The bulletproof solution is the tether to the tender, and it's pretty easy to do as well.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

This may be why I like the 022 switches. They don't have these problems.


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## Smokinjoe52 (Nov 8, 2013)

The tether from the tender works perfectly. I did hook up outer and center pickups to the tether.

I also checked pickup continuity on the loco, and could not find any issues. More than 30 loops around and not a single switch issue. I have the uncoupling track installed and it works fine.

Thanks to all for the advice.

Joe


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Like I said, bulletproof fix. I've never had one that this mod failed to fix for any and all switches.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

Pickup placement is a continuing problem with some of the engines. My MTH City of Denver UP engine would short out only the O-42 switch in my layout causing sparking and welding marks on the track and engine pickups. It was due to the RealTrax spacing in the O-42 switch and the spacing of the center pickups of the engine. To solve it I had to move it to the Xmas loop under the Xmas tree with no switches. There was no way to solve it on my real layout…. a MTH design error! At least it was not a throw away!

LDBennett


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I had a Lionel 2-8-0 Consolidation that would short out just making a turn on O-36 Fastrack. The odd thing is, it was rated for O-31 curves and worked fine on O-31 tubular track! Go figure...


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