# Locomotive wheels



## upsman55

Im in the process of restoring a k5 that I picked up at a local train show a couple years ago. (Years, yikes!) The wheels had been removed, and two were missing. So of course I found a couple replacements at a later show. While I was organizing all the parts, I noticed that one wheel had a different profile on the inner side. And the wheel appeared to be recessed in the insulator. But to my question....are there different locomotive wheels in the flyer world within the 300 series locos? I'll try to get some photos later.


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## cramden

upsman55 said:


> Im in the process of restoring a k5 that I picked up at a local train show a couple years ago. (Years, yikes!) The wheels had been removed, and two were missing. So of course I found a couple replacements at a later show. While I was organizing all the parts, I noticed that one wheel had a different profile on the inner side. And the wheel appeared to be recessed in the insulator. But to my question....are there different locomotive wheels in the flyer world within the 300 series locos? I'll try to get some photos later.


Any pictures available? It's difficult to be sure but there are different sizes in wheels. Do you know what the wheels that you bought came from? Here are some parts diagrams with part lists. You can see a lot of the same wheels are used if you look at their #s. The problem arises when obsolete engines and parts are no longer available and newer parts are utilized.
http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual Maybe a call to Doug at portlines.com may be of help. He does list wheels but they are 2 sizes.http://64.251.10.24/~worldofw/cgi-bin/shopplcom.pl/SID=285928248/page=results-new.html Another possible solution is a junker that has a complete chassis with wheels. Hope this helps and good luck on your restoration. Look under wheels in the Flyer parts menu.


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## AmFlyer

Yes there are a number of different wheels for steam engines. The first most obvious is the 34X engines have much smaller wheels. Later production used wheels with aluminum tires and all black wheels. PulMor wheels are different from non PulMor. There are more subtle differences as shown in this picture The center section of the wheels on the 1951 332AC, top, are different than those on the 1951 302, below.


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## upsman55

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/files/1/0/7/0/1/p1000826.jpg

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/files/1/0/7/0/1/p1000827.jpg

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/files/1/0/7/0/1/p1000820.jpg

Here's a few images of the wheels. After looking at it more, it appears that the oddball wheel simply isn't seated properly in the insulator. It is tightly put together though. Obviously I have to remove and refit that insulator. Suggestions?


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Im in the process of restoring a k5 that I picked up at a local train show a couple years ago. (Years, yikes!) The wheels had been removed, and two were missing. So of course I found a couple replacements at a later show. While I was organizing all the parts, I noticed that one wheel had a different profile on the inner side. And the wheel appeared to be recessed in the insulator. But to my question....are there different locomotive wheels in the flyer world within the 300 series locos? I'll try to get some photos later.


What's the cab # of your K5?.. Look inside one of your original wheel/rim sets. The part # should be XA10009..Your replacement wheels should have the same #.. Also, if you have a set of calipers, measure the outside of the wheels.They should measure 1.36 or 1.37.. There are different part #'s on different cab # K5's for the wheels/rim sets.


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## cramden

It appears to be a blind driver that won't actually interfere with the track. You might be able to try it as is. On portlines web page there are repair clinics at the top of the page. #11 is about driver repairs. You might want to order some insulators before trying to refit that insulator. They break sometimes even when loose and you try to refit the rim. Take your time and you'll find that they're not difficult to repair.


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## flyernut

cramden said:


> It appears to be a blind driver that won't actually interfere with the track. You might be able to try it as is. On portlines web page there are repair clinics at the top of the page. #11 is about driver repairs. You might want to order some insulators before trying to refit that insulator. They break sometimes even when loose and you try to refit the rim. Take your time and you'll find that they're not difficult to repair.


If you buy new white insulators from PortLines, be sure to read and follow the instructions. They are a very tight fit, and have to be sanded on the inside of the rim. If you try and force the white insulator, you will break or crack the new part. This is not a slam on PortLines!!! Without Doug Peck or Jeff Kane at the Train Tender, we would be in a world of hurt.


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## upsman55

flyernut said:


> What's the cab # of your K5?.. Look inside one of your original wheel/rim sets. The part # should be XA10009..Your replacement wheels should have the same #.. Also, if you have a set of calipers, measure the outside of the wheels.They should measure 1.36 or 1.37.. There are different part #'s on different cab # K5's for the wheels/rim sets.


Ok, where to start here....I guess I'll go right down the line. I'm assuming that this is a 310. I'm not 100% sure. But it is a has the reverse unit in the boiler, the two brass buttons on the bottom of the frame that I understand never really got used, and the old style brush springs. Plus, a pair of 310 decals came in the box with it when I bought it.

All six wheels are in fact numbered XA10009. But the largest diameter I measure on the flanged wheels is 1.298. That would be quite a bit of wear. Could there possibly be that much difference? 

Included a few pics so you can see where I'm at with this project. 

This is what I started out with.









And here is where I'm at today.



























So, as you can see, still a lot of work. Parts to be ordered. And I have to locate a tender also. I'd like your and others input on narrowing down this loco's definite cab #. Looking forward to the replies.

Carl


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## mopac

You sure have that puppy apart. Just curious why you pulled all the wheels. For
cleaning maybe. I am new just in 2017 to AF. I have learned a lot in one year.
I can not help you narrow down the correct cab number for your engine. There
are guys here that know some stuff. I do know the 310 did not have smoke or
choo choo. LOL, so far we have a match. The buttons, the old style brushes,
puts your engine as a possible 1946 model. I know nothing about the wheels.
The other guys will try to help you. Nice project, good luck with it.


I really like the K5. I have a 312 basket case I bought cheap. Mine will need a lot
of work. I have not started on it yet.


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## upsman55

mopac said:


> You sure have that puppy apart. Just curious why you pulled all the wheels. For
> cleaning maybe. I am new just in 2017 to AF. I have learned a lot in one year.
> I can not help you narrow down the correct cab number for your engine. There
> are guys here that know some stuff. I do know the 310 did not have smoke or
> choo choo. LOL, so far we have a match. The buttons, the old style brushes,
> puts your engine as a possible 1946 model. I know nothing about the wheels.
> The other guys will try to help you. Nice project, good luck with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really like the K5. I have a 312 basket case I bought cheap. Mine will need a lot
> of work. I have not started on it yet.


Yeah, I did get a little carried away with the wheel removal. But you did hit the nail on the head Mopac. It was all about cleaning everything up. But if I knew then what I know now.....I probably still would have done it!:laugh: I'm looking forward to quartering those wheels and setting the gauge when I get the parts together. Like you, I'm relatively new to AF, but I'm hooked. Learned much already from the resident pros. But have much more to learn.


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## upsman55

cramden said:


> It appears to be a blind driver that won't actually interfere with the track. You might be able to try it as is. On portlines web page there are repair clinics at the top of the page. #11 is about driver repairs. You might want to order some insulators before trying to refit that insulator. They break sometimes even when loose and you try to refit the rim. Take your time and you'll find that they're not difficult to repair.


Thanks Cramden. I've been digging into the Portlines website a bit. The driver repair info is a great reference. And it looks like they have all the replacement parts I'll need. I will be replacing all the insulators. And as I mentioned to Flyernut in another reply, the outside diameters of the tires/rims are somewhat smaller than the size listed in the repair clinic. 1.298 are what mine measure. I have to find out if this is a big issue or not.


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## flyernut

From what I can gather, it's a 310, made in 1946,47.. Year of manufacture depends on the tender graphics...1946 will say "Pennsylvania", whereas a 1947 will say "American Flyer Lines". A tender should be easy to pick up, either year.. Be careful when mounting the rear drive wheels with the smoke gear. You want to make sure the tolerances are ok.. This will be a nice engine when done.. Get yourself a 312 or a 312AC.. They'll have smoke, head-light, and choo choo.


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## cramden

upsman55 said:


> Thanks Cramden. I've been digging into the Portlines website a bit. The driver repair info is a great reference. And it looks like they have all the replacement parts I'll need. I will be replacing all the insulators. And as I mentioned to Flyernut in another reply, the outside diameters of the tires/rims are somewhat smaller than the size listed in the repair clinic. 1.298 are what mine measure. I have to find out if this is a big issue or not.


Your welcome I'm sure. Portlines lists 2 rim sizes, 1.33 and 1.38. I would think you're dealing with the smaller size based on your measurements. Along with Mopac and Flyernut I concur your 310 is a 46 production year. I think a call to Doug at Portlines when ordering parts would give you the best answer on the wheels. I'm sure he would know what is right for your engine. Jeff Kane probably also knows but he doesn't have a listing for rims, but might have used parts that could work. Keep us informed if possible, we all can continue to learn about Flyers.


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## AmFlyer

The picture of the linkage appears to show round head rivets. They were used only on 1946 production The rivets were hex head beginning with 1947. For reference there is one hex head rivet visible on the 332AC picture I posted above. If they are indeed round heads then the engine is 1946.


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## upsman55

AmFlyer said:


> The picture of the linkage appears to show round head rivets. They were used only on 1946 production The rivets were hex head beginning with 1947. For reference there is one hex head rivet visible on the 332AC picture I posted above. If they are indeed round heads then the engine is 1946.


Thanks for sharing that info Tom. I appreciate it!


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## upsman55

flyernut said:


> From what I can gather, it's a 310, made in 1946,47.. Year of manufacture depends on the tender graphics...1946 will say "Pennsylvania", whereas a 1947 will say "American Flyer Lines". A tender should be easy to pick up, either year.. Be careful when mounting the rear drive wheels with the smoke gear. You want to make sure the tolerances are ok.. This will be a nice engine when done.. Get yourself a 312 or a 312AC.. They'll have smoke, head-light, and choo choo.


Checking out a tender that is apparently a "46" on e-bay right now. Actually there is more than one. Their conditions and prices vary. Also, I can see the day I do pick up a 312. Turning into a bit of a "Flyernut" myself!:laugh:


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## mopac

They are addictive. I started 2017 with 1 AF steamer. I now have 10.
How did that happen?


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Checking out a tender that is apparently a "46" on e-bay right now. Actually there is more than one. Their conditions and prices vary. Also, I can see the day I do pick up a 312. Turning into a bit of a "Flyernut" myself!:laugh:


Another "flyernut"!...Too funny...but true!


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> They are addictive. I started 2017 with 1 AF steamer. I now have 10.
> How did that happen?


Apparently you picked up a male and a female loco.. They're like rabbits, you know..


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## PhoebeSnow

I started with restoring the two locos my Dad purchased around 1951/ 52 - a 325 AC Hudson & a 334DC Northern. I now have well over thirty. It truly is an addiction!!


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## mopac

I think it is great we revive these old locomotives. Some have been in storage for over 40 years. Most are over 60 years old. Not many toys 60 plus years old work as well as these
old flyers do with a little redo. The enjoyment is incredible. I got hooked by getting a 1952
282 running great again. I got it in 1955 from an uncle after he was done with it. It ran good till about 1957 till it started to get hot and run at about half speed. It stayed that way till in 2017, I bought a powered parts chassis and started changing parts one at a time. Changed the armature, the old 282 came back to life. The feeling was incredible
and I started working on other flyers that were not running.


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## mopac

I have to give flyernut credit for all the help and info to get me started.
I call him my AF guru.


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## dooper

"Love me Tender"


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## upsman55

So, I bought a tender for the 310. It appeared to be packaged well, but when I unwrapped it the link coupler was snapped off. It was attached in the pictures I saw online. I was tempted to return it, but I'm guessing it won't be that big of deal to fix. And other than the coupling, it's pretty decent. Anyone ever replace a link coupler? Any tips?

Here's some pics.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> I have to give flyernut credit for all the help and info to get me started.
> I call him my AF guru.


:appl::appl::appl:


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## cramden

upsman55 said:


> So, I bought a tender for the 310. It appeared to be packaged well, but when I unwrapped it the link coupler was snapped off. It was attached in the pictures I saw online. I was tempted to return it, but I'm guessing it won't be that big of deal to fix. And other than the coupling, it's pretty decent. Anyone ever replace a link coupler? Any tips?
> 
> Here's some pics.


This Thread should get you on the right track.http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=138594 If you need any help, just ask away. Hope this is helpful.


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## upsman55

*Link coupler repair*

Well after posting the above I did a search on the forum and found that portlines sells LC replacements, and installation tools. I can see that I'll have to be careful what I order. On the 46 coupler its an unweighted thin shank. The 46 link pin listed at Portlines says "S" couplers only. Not sure what they mean by that.

As for the installation tool. Is that something that a competent machinist like myself could manufacture?


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## cramden

upsman55 said:


> Well after posting the above I did a search on the forum and found that portlines sells LC replacements, and installation tools. I can see that I'll have to be careful what I order. On the 46 coupler its an unweighted thin shank. The 46 link pin listed at Portlines says "S" couplers only. Not sure what they mean by that.
> 
> As for the installation tool. Is that something that a competent machinist like myself could manufacture?


Gilbert pre-war link couplers were larger in the pin diameter and link itself if I remember correctly,"S" is post war. I'm sure you could make a tool to install the coupler but for the time and effort involved, one already made for the purpose is the way I'd go. I think on the video from the linked Thread the fellow made his own from a punch that was drilled out and cross hatches cut into the tip. The choice is entirely up to you.


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## flyernut

Several members of my family are machinists, and in fact my cousin owned his own tool and die company.My advice would be to just buy the tool!! Get the "hit it with a hammer" model. Doug Peck usually has them in stock but sometimes he runs out. They are a very popular tool. The pins and couplers are a little pricey, about $2 bucks each, and you WILL break several at first. You can certainly make the set-up block at home. I made one up with a bar of aluminum stock.. Just some advice from a old ebayer....When I package a engine or a piece of rolling stock with a link coupler, I always insert a piece of toilet paper tube around the coupler for added protection. You can also use a piece of paper towel cardboard tube.. Don't ask why I started doing this,lol!!


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## upsman55

Well, I guess I'll listen to the to you guys who have been down this road in the past and just spring for the tool. I confess I have a cheap streak that makes me want to "do it myself". I have a funny feeling that I'll be using it more than once, so it will probably be a good purchase. 

And Flyernut, I won't ask, but I'm guessing you may have had a broken link problem at least one time in the past. Thats why the extra special protection.:thumbsup:


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Well, I guess I'll listen to the to you guys who have been down this road in the past and just spring for the tool. I confess I have a cheap streak that makes me want to "do it myself". I have a funny feeling that I'll be using it more than once, so it will probably be a good purchase.
> 
> And Flyernut, I won't ask, but I'm guessing you may have had a broken link problem at least one time in the past. Thats why the extra special protection.:thumbsup:


I have received items on ebay with a broken link coupler, and I've had complaints from buyers when a link coupler comes broken.


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## upsman55

So I made a little progress. Got the wheels mounted/quartered yesterday. Used a combination of Flyernut's method to hold one side in line, and improvised a bit using parallels, a V-block, and a 6"scale on my drill press. It worked, and wasn't too difficult. One wheel is a little less than perfect, but the frame rolls smoothly with the linkage installed, so I'm happy. 

Here's a couple pics. I couldn't resist temporarily mounting the reverse unit, field, and brush housing just to see it look a little more like the finished product.



















Still have a ways to go, but one small step at a time.


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## mopac

Looking good. Man, that is one clean machine. Good job.


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## flyernut

Slow and easy, check and re-check as you go.. Looks very familiar,lol!!


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## mopac

No one has as slow a pace as me. I have not been working on my AF steam engines.
I have 10 and maybe 5 run. It could be worse. LOL.


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> No one has as slow a pace as me. I have not been working on my AF steam engines.
> I have 10 and maybe 5 run. It could be worse. LOL.


You know where I live,lol.


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## cramden

That looks real good upsman55. Glad it's going back together without too many problems. I'm looking forward to the finished pictures.


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## upsman55

Finally placed my order for parts yesterday. Needed a jack panel, reverse unit fingers, wire, etc. You know, one of those orders where you look at the total and can't believe all those little parts added up to that much!


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## upsman55

Made some progress on the K5 over the weekend. Rewired the loco, bench tested it, and tried the shell on for size. I had to try it on the track before I quit for the day, so I hooked it to a tender and sent it around a few times. Cant help but wonder how long its been since this loco last ran on a track. Still some work to do, but it runs!


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## mopac

She is looking good. Nice job. My K5 has been in storage for over 50 years. I need to pull a wheel and get a replacement. The stud is broke off in wheel. Needs a good cleaning. All
the grease has hardened. I need to buy some handrails. 2 or 3 are missing. Everything else should clean up fine. Paint is good. I got it for 37.00 so can spend a little on it. Jeff
Kane has a replacement wheel with square stud for 4.00. Handrails are a buck or 2 each.
I am sure it could use a new harness also. And it needs a couple new rubber tires for the pulmor wheels.


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Made some progress on the K5 over the weekend. Rewired the loco, bench tested it, and tried the shell on for size. I had to try it on the track before I quit for the day, so I hooked it to a tender and sent it around a few times. Cant help but wonder how long its been since this loco last ran on a track. Still some work to do, but it runs!


To take your "wondering" a little further, imagine the smile on the little guys face when he first got it back in the day.. Sorta brings a tear to your eye, doesn't it?? Nice job, my friend..:thumbsup:


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> She is looking good. Nice job. My K5 has been in storage for over 50 years. I need to pull a wheel and get a replacement. The stud is broke off in wheel. Needs a good cleaning. All
> the grease has hardened. I need to buy some handrails. 2 or 3 are missing. Everything else should clean up fine. Paint is good. I got it for 37.00 so can spend a little on it. Jeff
> Kane has a replacement wheel with square stud for 4.00. Handrails are a buck or 2 each.
> I am sure it could use a new harness also. And it needs a couple new rubber tires for the pulmor wheels.


That stud is splined, just use a small punch and drive it out.


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## mopac

Thanks flyernut. If I punch the broken stud out then I would just need to install a new stud. Either way I think I need to pull the wheel. Now, on reinstalling the stud, This is a square on end of stud, I wonder if the square has to be turned to a certain point before 
pressing it into wheel.


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> Thanks flyernut. If I punch the broken stud out then I would just need to install a new stud. Either way I think I need to pull the wheel. Now, on reinstalling the stud, This is a square on end of stud, I wonder if the square has to be turned to a certain point before
> pressing it into wheel.


That's a darn good question,and I would say..yes!..After checking one of my 312's, the only linkage attached to the square end goes to the boiler attachment, and I don't see any problems with just putting it in anywhere.. To be on the safe side, put the new stud in the same or close position as the old one.


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## upsman55

mopac said:


> She is looking good. Nice job. My K5 has been in storage for over 50 years. I need to pull a wheel and get a replacement. The stud is broke off in wheel. Needs a good cleaning. All
> the grease has hardened. I need to buy some handrails. 2 or 3 are missing. Everything else should clean up fine. Paint is good. I got it for 37.00 so can spend a little on it. Jeff
> Kane has a replacement wheel with square stud for 4.00. Handrails are a buck or 2 each.
> I am sure it could use a new harness also. And it needs a couple new rubber tires for the pulmor wheels.


I was actually pretty lucky with this particular loco. Believe it or not, I got it for $10 at a train show a couple years ago. Just the boiler, no tender. But no parts were missing. In fact, at one time someone must have wanted to restore it, because there was a new set of contact fingers for the reverse unit, a new spring and washer for the front truck, two new shoulder screws for the trucks, and two "310" decals. And I let it sit in a shoe box for almost 3 years!hwell: Anyway, my intentions today were to clean up the tender and call it a day, but I got motivated and continued on. Here's the finished product.




























Sorry about the middle pic turned sideways. I have to work on that part of downloading. As always, I appreciate you guys here on the forum being here to share your knowledge. It helped get me through this project. :thumbsup:


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## mopac

Wow !!! Very nice K5. She looks good. Nice $10.00 item.

Did you get new handrails or did you clean up the old ones?


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## flyernut

I love the K5's also..I have 5 of these beauties, but no SIT.All those linkages turning makes them a stunning loco while running. Very nice job bud!! You, Broke, AMFlyer, Cramden, and MOPAC have put me out of business,lol!!.We are have to get together and form a repair company.. Maybe "American Flyer Toy Train Tinkerers"?? Again, nice!!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## flyernut

Here's a picture of a auxiliary K5 tender I made. Link couplers on both ends, and red jewels on the back, new paint and dry rub transfers.


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## upsman55

Thanks mopac. The rails were all mounted to the shell when I bought it. But they were all coated in black paint. It was like the shell was dipped in a can of black paint. It took a bit of elbow grease to get them clean, but the paint preserved them well. They had zero rust. Question...can you purchase custom rails for a particular model, or do they just sell stock that you have to bend yourself?


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## mopac

You can buy from port lines the pre bent handrails. They are pretty cheap. In the 1 to 2 dollar range. Yours look new. Good cleanup job. Port Lines has the tender handrails also. They have the handrails for the various AF models. Not that they look bad, but you can remove your handrails from your tender and take one of those green scotch brite pads to them and they will look new like the locomotive ones.

That is a fine aux. tender flyernut. I am putting one on my to do list. I would like one.
And then I need a test tender. I run aux tenders on most of my HO steamers. Looks good running.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> You can buy from port lines the pre bent handrails. They are pretty cheap. In the 1 to 2 dollar range. Yours look new. Good cleanup job. Port Lines has the tender handrails also. They have the handrails for the various AF models. Not that they look bad, but you can remove your handrails from your tender and take one of those green scotch brite pads to them and they will look new like the locomotive ones.
> 
> That is a fine aux. tender flyernut. I am putting one on my to do list. I would like one.
> And then I need a test tender. I run aux tenders on most of my HO steamers. Looks good running.


I bought a ready made hand rail from Doug at Portlines. Easy and inexpensive. I also have purchased some straight wire from Jeff at The Train Tender. Same and I didn't have too much trouble bending the wire. I would give a thumbsup to both approaches! :thumbsup:


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## cramden

Upsman55,that came out great. Nice job.


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## flyernut

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I bought a ready made hand rail from Doug at Portlines. Easy and inexpensive. I also have purchased some straight wire from Jeff at The Train Tender. Same and I didn't have too much trouble bending the wire. I would give a thumbsup to both approaches! :thumbsup:


Yep, I've done both.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## upsman55

flyernut said:


> I love the K5's also..I have 5 of these beauties, but no SIT.All those linkages turning makes them a stunning loco while running. Very nice job bud!! You, Broke, AMFlyer, Cramden, and MOPAC have put me out of business,lol!!.We are have to get together and form a repair company.. Maybe "American Flyer Toy Train Tinkerers"?? Again, nice!!


That linkage is pretty cool. That really separates it from the other AF locos I have. Lots of movement as it rolls along.As far as starting a repair company, that would be my dream job, but I would be the weak link. Im too slow. We'd all be "broke"!?


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## upsman55

flyernut said:


> Here's a picture of a auxiliary K5 tender I made. Link couplers on both ends, and red jewels on the back, new paint and dry rub transfers.[iurl="http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=411241&stc=1&d=1519124226"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]


I like that auxiliary tender. Thats a nice touch! In my case, I still have to repair that link coupler on the K5's tender that was damaged in transit. I think Im going to repaint, and add new decals to match the engine.


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> I like that auxiliary tender. Thats a nice touch! In my case, I still have to repair that link coupler on the K5's tender that was damaged in transit. I think Im going to repaint, and add new decals to match the engine.


Decals are so so, dry rub transfers are the way to go.:appl:


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## upsman55

flyernut said:


> upsman55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like that auxiliary tender. Thats a nice touch! In my case, I still have to repair that link coupler on the K5's tender that was damaged in transit. I think Im going to repaint, and add new decals to match the engine.
> 
> 
> 
> Decals are so so, dry rub transfers are the way to go.
Click to expand...

I will take that advice. The "310" on the side of the k5 is a dry rub. I had seen a youtube video on how to apply it, and it went on nicely.


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