# Smooth joints in atlas flex track



## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I was trying to tune some of my rail joints on my atlas code 100 flex track and am having issues with the track making smooth transition through the rail joints. It’s all soldered joints so it’s not an issue there. It’s more or less the joint almost kinks. I have almost perfect track on my inner loop but am struggling to get the track work right on the outer loop. Anyone got any tips or tricks so I can get this correct?


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I guess I should have also said it’s in a curve


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

when i do a curve, it always soldered while it's straight .. i -might- use a couple more filler ties, but it's easy to get level .. then it's curved after it's soldered together ..one length at a time


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

A lateral joint-kink in a curve could mean the ends aren't being tweaked along with the rest.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I’m almost tempted to replace the outer loop with micro engineering track so it’s easier to make the curves a little bit smoother


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Have you ever worked with ME flex track?

As WVGCA said, always solder the track before bending the curve. The joint will be so smooth you won't even hear the wheels roll over it.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Are you staggering the joints?


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I have micro engineering track for my roundhouse. It tends to be shapable and hold a curve. If I was to solder all the rail together straight the curve would be somewhere around 12 or 13 feet long so that would be a multiple person lift so it didn’t bend


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's not what we mean.

Leave about 8" to 12" of straight track while tacking down the curve and solder each pice of new track to the straight section, then curve it around and repeat.

You probably know this already having worked with ME track, but you'll need some sort of form to get that track smooth around a curve. You'll be there all day trying to get the minute imperfections out of the curve as you form it.

Bend it in one location by hand and it also bends in another location in the opposite direction.

I love the stuff for straight runs, but I did not, and would not use it for wide curves without a template or form.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

"... without a template or form." I was gonna say, would a template or form help? I just bought some metal ones and they seem ok. But I haven't actually used them yet except for boomerangs. (joke)


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

When you curve flex-track, it will curve nicely outside of your two hands, but the last three+ inches on each end won't curve much at all. The last inch will be almost straight. And that's how kinks happen, or why the middle of curves comprising two joined lengths of flex have a straight part in the very middle, nearest the joint.

You can do this one of two ways*; staggering the actual joints inside one of the two pieces of flex, or using track nails to horse the final two inches into a reasonable curve, and then soldering that way. Ballasting will help to retain it because the ties will be embedded and retained.

*There's a third way, but it involves a mechanical roller and forcing the rails through it. I would highly recommend you learn how to do the staggered joints and solder them once they are shaped.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Metal ones?*



Severn said:


> "... without a template or form." I was gonna say, would a template or form help? I just bought some metal ones and they seem ok. But I haven't actually used them yet except for boomerangs. (joke)


Severn;

If by "some metal ones" you mean track gages made by Ribbon Rail, yes they will help.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Yes the name did not come to me then, and I didn't want overly advocate something I've only fiddled with to date and not to solve this particular problem. There's nothing wrong with them. But i think they could be a little longer or I should have bought two of each. I got several though a few inches radius apart but not every interval available. And so i would imagine this kind of thing could help to enforce a curve for this issue. There is at least one other brand of these kinds of things out there and you can make your own as well...but out of wood or some other material. The ribbon rail are I think cut low grade steel about the thickness of the rail itself and a few inches long. I bought mine from model trains stuff because they had them for in stock.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I would say that a good curve radius template is a very good tool to have on hand when making any kind of a curve, because it just makes things much easier. You can also get a pack of Fast Tracks' Sweep Sticks -- wooden templates that fit together like sectional track, allowing you to make templates of varying radii.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

I don't believe this has been cited yet:
Flex track has one rail which slides through its holders (usually fake spikes), while the other rail is fixed in place..Is it possible you soldered a slidable rail to a fixed rail ?? 
Also when it does get bent you want the slidable rail on the outside of the curve. And when you are attaching it to existing track, do solder them together.. Then curve it around and solder it (all with joiners of course) to the other existing track...
Finally, I don't think ME has code 100. It's too tall to represent 1:1 scale rail. Plus, the ME will make it harder to get a perfectly formed curve. So it's a trade-off..


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

The sliding rail I always put to the outside of a turn. Makes it easier to keep things neat. I’ll give stagger another attempt but I think that’s rather tacky myself. Especially when you have to remove the ties and then glue them back together in multiple places over a few feet of curve and hope you don’t have the rail raise from it


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

All you need to do is to use a small file to scrub down the fish plate and spike details so that the tie doesn't lift the rail there when you slip it back under the soldered joint. Once you learn how to do this, it goes rather quickly.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

mesenteria said:


> All you need to do is to use a small file to scrub down the fish plate and spike details so that the tie doesn't lift the rail there when you slip it back under the soldered joint. Once you learn how to do this, it goes rather quickly.


Added to this, in HO you can use (I think I used on prior layout) 3/32" x 1/16th" hobby wood which is very close to the size of the plastic ties then stained if you want..


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Jscullans said:


> The sliding rail I always put to the outside of a turn. Makes it easier to keep things neat. I’ll give stagger another attempt but I think that’s rather tacky myself. Especially when you have to remove the ties and then glue them back together in multiple places over a few feet of curve and hope you don’t have the rail raise from it


If you a referring to me, I am saying do not stagger them. Keep the outside rail of each 3' section the sliding rail.. If you are staggering them it could be the reason for your problem....


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

The sliding rail should always be on the outside of the curve, but the solder joints for the sliding rail should be staggered from the solder joints of the non-sliding rail by 3-4". The sliding rail from one piece of track will slide right into the ties of the other piece of track. Then only the ties under the solder joint need to be removed.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

flyboy, I've never been concerned with what you suggest. I lay the 2-3 flex track on the floor or bench with all 4 rail ends flush and hit the joiners with solder..Then I solder it at one end of the curve (outside rail all sliding) to the fixed track and bring it around to the other end, and if too long (holding it on top of fixed rail) I'll clip it off with the Xuron nipper paying attention to the possibly staggered fixed rail's end lengths. If I cut too much off I'll straighten it out again and solder on a good enough extension, redo the fitting-in ceremony and solder it to the fixed-rails...Also, if on the main the cork will already have been installed, making the eyeballing of the job easier...


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I’m gonna try to stagger the outer rails this evening and see what happens. Only one way to find out right


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Jscullans said:


> I’m gonna try to stagger the outer rails this evening and see what happens. Only one way to find out right


WHY do that ?!! It is contraindicated ! All curved outside rails slide; inside don't,... period !


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Well I guess the reason I’m going to try it is what I have going on right now isn’t working? I’m well aware that the outside rail is going to move. You don’t have to be a mechanical mastermind or rocket scientist to understand that. My issue is not with a rail moving my issue is it’s not keeping the curve through the joint. The rail joints are almost able to be measured with a protractor because they kink where they are soldered together and I’m not going to rip out roughly 20 feet of track to solder them on the floor and my bench isn’t long enough to solder that much track on. So I guess what am I out for at least trying a different method


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Several of us have mentioned curve templates. Do you have a set? Have you tried using them? I think you would find them amazingly helpful in solving this problem.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Your description tells me right off the bat that you did not solder the 1, 2, or 3, 3' flex sections together having first made all 4 or 6 rails from each section flush end to end (not staggered), then soldered while laid out straight on floor or long bench/table.
I've done this job a few times and never had a kink show up while bending and gluing/spiking/nailing them to either the ply or the already in place curved cork..And of course with 2-4 rail joiners between them, receiving the solder (solder engaging both joiner and rail at each joint)..
Doing this correctly guarantees a smooth curve..You must be doing something wrong if you're still winding up with kinks....


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

i ended up staggering the joints at roughly half the section of track (18”) and soldered them while track was straight. It worked out good in the end because I had my pickiest locomotive running and it was smooth as silk (bli 4-8-4) the only issue I have on that loop is a couple of turnouts that need to be removed and replaced with something curved. It’s too sharp for smooth running with straight turnouts in those locations. My next adventure will be those turnouts then building up a yard for switching and maybe industry then track work will be done for the most part. Pretty much all straight running


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

I give up. Over and Out


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

This falls under - Now you tell me. 

I have just laid about a hundred feet of Atlas code 100 N/S flex track without soldering a joint. Always used rail joiners and rail joiners only. Haven't had a problem but must admit, some joints on curves are not as smooth as they could be. 

So, for future reference, how are you going about this? Rosen core solder applied to the outside of the track using an iron (wattage?) or gun? Flux or not? Heat transfer to N/S is quite good, how do you avoid melting tie locators? Heat syncs? Effective on all radius's? Mine are 22/20/18.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Rosin core 60/40 soldered to the outside of the rail.

No heat sink is neccessary.

Radius is no factor since the rail is soldered together while straight.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

MichaelE said:


> Rosin core 60/40 soldered to the outside of the rail.
> 
> No heat sink is neccessary.
> 
> Radius is no factor since the rail is soldered together while straight.


Thanks Michael, I should have mentioned - what is the tightest radius that you can bend soldered track to? Seems like a 35W iron would be best for this.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

You can use a fairly heavy iron [if that's all you have], I used a Weller 100/140 watt on mine, with a piece of ordinary household wire for an element .. both on the joiners, and the feeders


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

rsv1ho said:


> Thanks Michael, I should have mentioned - what is the tightest radius that you can bend soldered track to? Seems like a 35W iron would be best for this.


If you cut any plastic struts between the ties, which you'll see on some brands when you invert them and look at the ties, you can bend flex track to a radius just under 10" if it's HO. That mangles the tracks, my opinion, but it can be done. I would advise against doing so.

I only use a 35 watt pencil by Weller. Works well. Make sure the tip is clean and well-tinned. Don't leave it against the rails or the joiner for more than a quick count of one-two-three. If you find you tend to melt ties, then yes, a heat sink on either side is advised. Metal clips, tools, wetted paper towel...


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## aquakiwi (Oct 2, 2019)

Slightly off topic, but is it the norm to solder all joins rather than use joiners?


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## beepjuice (Sep 17, 2014)

USE BOTH


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

aquakiwi said:


> Slightly off topic, but is it the norm to solder all joins rather than use joiners?


The 'best' practice, from the point of view of the short response just above, is to alternate them. Here's a schematic to show what I mean, and then I'll explain the logic:

O = sliding, non-soldered joiner, X = soldered joiner

======X=====O=====X=====O=====X==

The idea behind soldering is two-fold: it both strengthens the joint (mostly for curved tracks) and it makes electrical conductivity on either side of the joint most positive. One set of feeders/jumpers powers two ways for a total of 6' if placed at, or inside, the joiners (you hammer the bared wire flat, and insert it near the web of the rail, top of the flange). Joiners, when new, will be about 90% effective at passing current across joints. That means 10% of them will fail at the outset or soon thereafter, especially if ballasting and using glues. If you solder the joints, it's almost as good as solid contiguous rail.

Leaving every second joiner open means the rails can move a bit. Even with glued ballast, changing moisture levels in the roadbed and frame below it can cause tracks to buckle when the wood dries too much...or tear something when the wood expands seasonally. If you intend to control the humidity in the train room within about 30% range TOTAL, you could solder every joint if it made some kind of sense to do so. But in a garage, say, or an attic (Europe for example), you would want to build forgiveness, or 'play', into the track system to allow for some expansion and contraction.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

wvgca said:


> You can use a fairly heavy iron [if that's all you have], I used a Weller 100/140 watt on mine, with a piece of ordinary household wire for an element .. both on the joiners, and the feeders


I use a Weller 100/140 watt gun to solder rail joints, as well. I use the 140 setting. I get the joint ready, apply flux to the joint, then hold the solder in place as I hit the top of the rail with the gun. The 140 setting has the joint soldered before the ties even warm up! I do use an alligator clip on either side of the joint as a heat sink, as well. Works great for me! :thumbsup:


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

flyboy2610 said:


> I use a Weller 100/140 watt gun to solder rail joints, as well. I use the 140 setting. I get the joint ready, apply flux to the joint, then hold the solder in place as I hit the top of the rail with the gun. The 140 setting has the joint soldered before the ties even warm up! I do use an alligator clip on either side of the joint as a heat sink, as well. Works great for me! :thumbsup:


A question that has bugged me for years.

Everyone keeps mentioning 100/140 selective watts on their Wellers, but both of mine say 140/100. Bet yours do too. 

I'm guessing the first position on the switch is 140 watts, the second 100, on my two at least,_ but there is nothing in the supplied booklet that supports thi_s and I can see no difference between the two, only that the second position is the easiest to hold and use. Common sense would dictate 100 watts on the first position 140 on the second.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

140 on first position, 100 on second.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

mine is probably 40 years old, and the case has been repaired a few times ...
the sticker on the side says 100/140 .. and i know the first position is 100 watt [ it heats up slower than fully in, the second position] ... the light doesn't work most of the time ..
I still have a small drawer of tips made out of ordinary household AC wire ..

maybe the newer ones are different, dunno .. but it works


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

i went on ebay, and they have both ...
there are 100/140 AND 140/100 ... mine is a model 8200 , and they also have a 8200N , don't know what the difference is , maybe the light ??


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Interesting. Mine says it's a model 8200 as well, and the sticker reads 140/100. It's been a while since I've soldered track with it, but I'm pretty sure the first position is 140 watts.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Yeah, I was wrong. Been wrong before, fair warning I will be wrong again.

Went out to the garage and retrieved my "old" Weller like wvgca bought sometime in the 1960's. Note address, no zip code. Old faithful.

It's 100/140 vs what I had first thought. Much prefer it, more logical on the trigger positions. Put a new tip on it and I'm retiring the "new" one. Thankfully there was a new tip under the flux can, but I imagine a length of 10/12 gauge copper wire tinned would do as well.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's the model my Dad had.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

All my joints are soldered I have my layout room in my basement which stays around 70 degrees year round and also has very low humidity. I keep charcoal dehumidifier things in my basement along with a dehumidifier so the humidity rarely gets above 20% cool and dry. I used a 30 watt soldering iron due to me not having a monster size layout and I have 4 sets of drop feeders on the layout. One for my service yard and facility one for my outer loop one for my inner loop and one for the passing siding on my outer loop. I’m only able to run 2 trains at a time due to only having one throttle using digitrax and I can’t keep track of a throttle and my telephone at the same time to use my WiThrottleLite app on my phone. Too much going on for me.


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