# BLI Steam



## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

New guy question. I have bought three Mikado steam engines (Two light, one heavy) from Broadway Limited. none of these have over an hour of running time. The heavy first one, a light, had the right running gear fall off and bent some of the bars. Called they said send it in for warranty. The second one , the heavy, twisted the front axle on the tender. Called they said they would send the part no problem warranty. The third one ,a light, came with the front axle wheel bent into the mount. Mount ground to almost nothing. Ordered parts. Took the front axle off the heavy mounted it on the light train ran great for about a half hour. started to hit one of the turn outs and stopping. Pulled the engine and looked at it, the axle bent and ground the mount down. All new Atlas Code 80 track, Atlas turn outs, all checked with a NMRA gauge. Running NCE dcc at the 12 to 14 step about half as fast as it can go. Any suggestions as to what is going on?
Thanks for any input


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

Bumpa Dave said:


> New guy question. I have bought three Mikado steam engines (Two light, one heavy) from Broadway Limited. none of these have over an hour of running time. The heavy first one, a light, had the right running gear fall off and bent some of the bars. Called they said send it in for warranty. The second one , the heavy, twisted the front axle on the tender. Called they said they would send the part no problem warranty. The third one ,a light, came with the front axle wheel bent into the mount. Mount ground to almost nothing. Ordered parts. Took the front axle off the heavy mounted it on the light train ran great for about a half hour. started to hit one of the turn outs and stopping. Pulled the engine and looked at it, the axle bent and ground the mount down. All new Atlas Code 80 track, Atlas turn outs, all checked with a NMRA gauge. Running NCE dcc at the 12 to 14 step about half as fast as it can go. Any suggestions as to what is going on?
> Thanks for any input


Oh yes I forgot to mention that this N Scale


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Bumpa Dave said:


> Oh yes I forgot to mention that this N Scale


Bumpa Dave;

I don't know what the problem is, but I can say its not you, or anything you're using in the way of track, turnouts or DCC. Either BLI had an extraordinarily bad day going when you ordered your locomotives, or you have had some extraordinarily lousy luck! Do you have any other brands of locomotives? If so, do any of them have similar problems? I don't own any BLI locomotives, they are a little too expensive for me. However, they seem to have a good reputation here on the forum. 
My favorite locomotive brand is Kato. I have never had any problems with any of them except that the F-unit diesels (older DC models) are noisy, and the Kato Mikados needed 16" radius curves to stay on track reliably. I own dozens of Kato locomotives and they all run fine. 

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 😕


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Not sure I completely understand what you're describing. Some pictures sure would help. And because someone else was a little silly about providing pictures of his problem, by pictures, we mean well-lit, close up, in focus pictures.

Running gear sounds like a QA problem on their end. 

On your second, it "twisted the front axle on the tender". Twisted how, what was twisted? Like the ends of the axles fell out of the trucks? On the third, the "front axle wheel bent into the mount"? What was bent? The wheel? The axle? Something else.

It does sound like all of these issues are related to poor QA, although, unlike Traction Fan, we can't totally absolve you of responsibility. The pilot wheels of my HO scale Mikados are notoriously tricky to get on the rails. Half the time I think they are, and they're not.

Still, I agree it's not likely to be anything in your track or turnouts. Get us some pix, and we'll take a look.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Bumpa Dave;
> 
> I don't know what the problem is, but I can say its not you, or anything you're using in the way of track, turnouts or DCC. Either BLI had an extraordinarily bad day going when you ordered your locomotives, or you have had some extraordinarily lousy luck! Do you have any other brands of locomotives? If so, do any of them have similar problems? I don't own any BLI locomotives, they are a little too expensive for me. However, they seem to have a good reputation here on the forum.
> My favorite locomotive brand is Kato. I have never had any problems with any of them except that the F-unit diesels (older DC models) are noisy, and the Kato Mikados needed 16" radius curves to stay on track reliably. I own dozens of Kato locomotives and they all run fine.
> ...


more than likely the bad luck, I am half Irish.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Not sure I completely understand what you're describing. Some pictures sure would help. And because someone else was a little silly about providing pictures of his problem, by pictures, we mean well-lit, close up, in focus pictures.
> 
> Running gear sounds like a QA problem on their end.
> 
> ...


















Here is one of the pictures I took. It looks to me like the nylon bearing melted and froze the axle. Yes i have another engine a Model Power 4-4-0 that runs fine, a little rough on the turn outs, but this doesn't have the small front wheels.


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

I have to ask where did you buy them from?? Off there website,Ebay online store??


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

bewhole said:


> I have to ask where did you buy them from?? Off there website,Ebay online store??


The lights I got from Model Train Stuff. com the heavy was from TrainLife.com there isn't a store in my area. The oldest one I bought Jan. 2021 the last one Mar. 2021. All new in the box.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm assuming the wheels are not in gauge now, that the part of the axle protruding through the wheel isn't supposed to be there. Is the axle itself plastic, and threaded through a metal rod on the mount? Or is the axle metal, which might indicate that the melted part is the insulation which was supposed to keep the metal wheels / axle from shorting the rails? It does look like something was not rotating correctly and melted. What I find odd is that BOTH axles (the original, and the one you swapped from the other loco) seem to have failed in an identical fashion. Is there any indication on the underside of the locomotive to indicate rubbing or binding?

It's also difficult to tell; it might be perspective, the angle of the photo, or shadows, but are both wheels the same dimensions? Is the flange on the wheel on the right out of round? Was the wheel loose on the axle before it melted?

But of course, all the things I'm suggesting would be manufacturing defects. A number of companies have had to switch suppliers in China and are having some quality issues while the new places come up to speed. BLI may be among them. Whatever the reason, get on BLI's case and don't let them off the hook until you have 3 operating locomotives.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> I'm assuming the wheels are not in gauge now, that the part of the axle protruding through the wheel isn't supposed to be there. Is the axle itself plastic, and threaded through a metal rod on the mount? Or is the axle metal, which might indicate that the melted part is the insulation which was supposed to keep the metal wheels / axle from shorting the rails? It does look like something was not rotating correctly and melted. What I find odd is that BOTH axles (the original, and the one you swapped from the other loco) seem to have failed in an identical fashion. Is there any indication on the underside of the locomotive to indicate rubbing or binding?
> 
> It's also difficult to tell; it might be perspective, the angle of the photo, or shadows, but are both wheels the same dimensions? Is the flange on the wheel on the right out of round? Was the wheel loose on the axle before it melted?
> 
> But of course, all the things I'm suggesting would be manufacturing defects. A number of companies have had to switch suppliers in China and are having some quality issues while the new places come up to speed. BLI may be among them. Whatever the reason, get on BLI's case and don't let them off the hook until you have 3 operating locomotives.


The axle is all metal and the wheels look like that they are pressed on. The wheel that is bent is up against the mount and the mount is worn thin on that side. There is no indication that anything is rubbing or anything like that on the underside. I didn't measure the wheels before I put it on the track but eyeballin it they looked the same, and I didn't check to see if the wheels were loose. When I changed the set from the other locomotive, after i found that the first one was bent they didn't feel loose. Needless to say I'm a little disappointed to have three engines from Broadway that are less then three months old and all three are down.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Looks like you had a short and didn't correct it soon enough. I have seen several posts with NCE systems having this type of problem. You need better short circuit protection. I have three BLI steam locos and have lots of hours on them without a single problem.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rrjim1 said:


> Looks like you had a short and didn't correct it soon enough. I have seen several posts with NCE systems having this type of problem. You need better short circuit protection. I have three BLI steam locos and have lots of hours on them without a single problem.


For the OP, are these your only locos, or was the layout operating normally before that? You should do the "Quarter test". Take all locos off the tracks and power up your NCE system. Go to the farthest point from your power feeds and deliberately short across the rails (a quarter works well in HO, hence the name). Does it trip your system offline? If it does, well and good. If not, repeat the test at several points closer to the feeds. If the breaker still doesn't trip, then you've found the problem.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> For the OP, are these your only locos, or was the layout operating normally before that? You should do the "Quarter test". Take all locos off the tracks and power up your NCE system. Go to the farthest point from your power feeds and deliberately short across the rails (a quarter works well in HO, hence the name). Does it trip your system offline? If it does, well and good. If not, repeat the test at several points closer to the feeds. If the breaker still doesn't trip, then you've found the problem.


Ok thanks I'll have to try that.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

rrjim1 said:


> Looks like you had a short and didn't correct it soon enough. I have seen several posts with NCE systems having this type of problem. You need better short circuit protection. I have three BLI steam locos and have lots of hours on them without a single problem.


I'll check in to that Thanks for the advice


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> For the OP, are these your only locos, or was the layout operating normally before that? You should do the "Quarter test". Take all locos off the tracks and power up your NCE system. Go to the farthest point from your power feeds and deliberately short across the rails (a quarter works well in HO, hence the name). Does it trip your system offline? If it does, well and good. If not, repeat the test at several points closer to the feeds. If the breaker still doesn't trip, then you've found the problem.


Yes I have another locomotive it is a 4-4-0 from MRC Model Power. That does struggle thru some of my Atlas Code 80 turn outs,in the process of changing to Peco. It also doesn't have as good a decoder as the Broadway.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> For the OP, are these your only locos, or was the layout operating normally before that? You should do the "Quarter test". Take all locos off the tracks and power up your NCE system. Go to the farthest point from your power feeds and deliberately short across the rails (a quarter works well in HO, hence the name). Does it trip your system offline? If it does, well and good. If not, repeat the test at several points closer to the feeds. If the breaker still doesn't trip, then you've found the problem.


ok I have done the "Quarter Test" the "Nickle Test" the "Penny Test" even laid my metal tweezers on the track. Nothing! Nothing from the controller. I took my tester and checked the track for voltage. It is dhowing I have 12 volts all around the track. Man this might be more complicated then I'm capable of doing.


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## Railtwister (Nov 5, 2015)

It looks like your NCE System is not tripping it’s circuit breaker. Not the cheapest, but probably the easiest solution is to install a fast operating breaker between your NCE and your track. I’ve had good luck with the PSX-1 breaker from Tony’s Trains. It’s all solid state, and perhaps the best breaker out there.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

Ok I'll look in to it
Thanks


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bumpa Dave said:


> ok I have done the "Quarter Test" the "Nickle Test" the "Penny Test" even laid my metal tweezers on the track. Nothing! Nothing from the controller. I took my tester and checked the track for voltage. It is dhowing I have 12 volts all around the track. Man this might be more complicated then I'm capable of doing.


Yep. As Railtwister said, you definitely need a better circuit breaker than the one in the NCE. You should see 12v of pseudo-DC in the track at all times when it's not shorted. If you have a short, your system should trip offline, stopping all trains. As it was, the short generated enough heat to melt the axle. Probably just slightly bent on delivery.

My MRC Prodigy has the opposite problem: it shorts if a loco gets within a foot of a turnout lined against the train! Not really, but it sure doesn't take much to get the dreaded "Svda" error, requiring a reset.

Even though BLI could credibly claim that this was your fault, they'll probably honor the warranty -- they want you as a customer.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I agree, it looks like the metal wheel shorted out one of your Atlas turnouts (a common complaint with the notoriously sloppy Atlas snap switches when used with DCC). Changing to Peco turnouts will go a long way toward solving that problem, but be sure to insulate and wire each properly for DCC, It's different depending on if it is a Peco Electro-frog or insul-frog turnout. Note the new 2021 Peco turnouts do not need any special wiring except insulated joiners on the 4 exiting rails. See instruction sheet enclosed with each type for more information. I have found my NCE powercab to be very slow to react to a short, ( Melted an axle on a brand new Bachmann tender while setting it on the powered rails) an aftermarket solid state circuit breaker between the power panel and the buss is *highly recommended.*


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Yep. As Railtwister said, you definitely need a better circuit breaker than the one in the NCE. You should see 12v of pseudo-DC in the track at all times when it's not shorted. If you have a short, your system should trip offline, stopping all trains. As it was, the short generated enough heat to melt the axle. Probably just slightly bent on delivery.
> 
> My MRC Prodigy has the opposite problem: it shorts if a loco gets within a foot of a turnout lined against the train! Not really, but it sure doesn't take much to get the dreaded "Svda" error, requiring a reset.
> 
> Even though BLI could credibly claim that this was your fault, they'll probably honor the warranty -- they want you as a customer.


Thank you for your input. I would never would have thought that this stuff was so fragile.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

scenicsRme said:


> I agree, it looks like the metal wheel shorted out one of your Atlas turnouts (a common complaint with the notoriously sloppy Atlas snap switches when used with DCC). Changing to Peco turnouts will go a long way toward solving that problem, but be sure to insulate and wire each properly for DCC, It's different depending on if it is a Peco Electro-frog or insul-frog turnout. Note the new 2021 Peco turnouts do not need any special wiring except insulated joiners on the 4 exiting rails. See instruction sheet enclosed with each type for more information. I have found my NCE powercab to be very slow to react to a short, ( Melted an axle on a brand new Bachmann tender while setting it on the powered rails) an aftermarket solid state circuit breaker between the power panel and the buss is *highly recommended.*


So now I have to learn how to hook up the wiring for the Insulfrog turnouts? Couldn't they make this a little more complicated. May I ask where I find these directions for that hook up. Railtwister suggested that I get a "PSX-1 breaker" from Tony's Trains. Went there and they have 5000 breakers in the PSX-1.😵 Thanks for the info I'll get this figured out no matter how much it cost😄😄😄


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

It's not that they are fragile, it's that some things were designed before DCC, others have QC issues. I haven't found BLI stuff to be a problem, but Atlas snap switches were designed over 50 years ago and are of a non conventional design. Then their equally ancient switch machines weren't strong enough to throw them, so they had to loosen them up to the point of sloppy. Back then, trains ran on a couple volts (speed was voltage controlled) so no harm, no foul except for the slight smell of ozone. Most people were running their trains around the xmas tree or on a 4x8' table with a minimum # of switches. There wasn't many radius curve choices to do much else, and you could only run 1 train at a time without an advanced degree in electrical engineering, miles of wire and a panel full of toggles that would give an airline pilot shivers. Thankfully today electronic devices will do most of the work for you, and make MRR a whole lot more fun than just watching a train run around in circles.
You can find the peco turnout hook-up info online or on you tube (look for one by the DCC guy he explains it very well). It's not complicated the insulfrogs are the easiest.
AFA the breaker, give Tony a call he'll be glad to help you pick out what you need.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bumpa Dave said:


> Thank you for your input. I would never would have thought that this stuff was so fragile.


I'd say delicate rather than fragile. These really are precision machines, and they're not designed to be manhandled. That's especially true in the smaller scales.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Yes we want "rivet counter" scale accuracy which means more, finer details and complexity, which means we can't be hamfisted with them, especially when handling and rerailing larger multi-wheeled steam locomotives like articulateds and big boys. Tenders packed with electronics with their umbilical cord connections to the loco require two handed handling even in N and Z scale. I find the newer portable rerailer ramps work much better for longer multi-wheeled rolling stock than the old rerailer track sections, just set the ramp in place wherever you need it, set the car or loco at the top of the ramp and slide it down the ramp onto the rails. Works perfectly every time.


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## Bumpa Dave (Mar 12, 2021)

scenicsRme said:


> It's not that they are fragile, it's that some things were designed before DCC, others have QC issues. I haven't found BLI stuff to be a problem, but Atlas snap switches were designed over 50 years ago and are of a non conventional design. Then their equally ancient switch machines weren't strong enough to throw them, so they had to loosen them up to the point of sloppy. Back then, trains ran on a couple volts (speed was voltage controlled) so no harm, no foul except for the slight smell of ozone. Most people were running their trains around the xmas tree or on a 4x8' table with a minimum # of switches. There wasn't many radius curve choices to do much else, and you could only run 1 train at a time without an advanced degree in electrical engineering, miles of wire and a panel full of toggles that would give an airline pilot shivers. Thankfully today electronic devices will do most of the work for you, and make MRR a whole lot more fun than just watching a train run around in circles.
> You can find the peco turnout hook-up info online or on you tube (look for one by the DCC guy he explains it very well). It's not complicated the insulfrogs are the easiest.
> AFA the breaker, give Tony a call he'll be glad to help you pick out what you need.


Thanks for the info. I have to look the peco install up


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