# American Models Passenger Cars



## RJC

I have posted two photos. I would like to change the couplers on these cars which were manufactured by American Models around 1990. The quality is not very good. I compared it to the quality of the AM Budd cars that I own which is really well made.

I contacted the owner of American Models and he was not at all helpful. When I criticized him for the couplers, his only response was "I have been making these couplers for twenty-five years and no complaints." Thank you sir for helping me to simply want to replace couplers and upgrade my equipment. So much for American Models customer support.

Do you see any possible way to upgrade to Kadee's?

Thanks.


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## flyernut

That's a loooong extension on that coupler bar....What I would do is to cut off the coupler, leaving some room to transplant a piece of AF coupler arm to it...JB Weld, screw or pop-rivet it to the AM arm.. Just be sure the coupler/truck swings freely, and the coupler height is correct..


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## flyernut

After re-reading your post about switching to Kadee's, I can offer nothing more. Maybe what I posted can help in some way.....


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## RJC

flyernut said:


> After re-reading your post about switching to Kadee's, I can offer nothing more. Maybe what I posted can help in some way.....


Thanks for your suggestions. I own a number of AM freight cars; a set of their Budd cars and a number of locomotives. All perform well. These couplers are "junk", I don't care how much this guy wants to defend his product. As I said, he was zero help and more interested in defending than helping out a former customer.


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## AmFlyer

I have 33 AM passenger cars on my layout. Like you I find the Budd cars to be fantastic operating and appearing cars. I do not have any of those PRR cars like yours, I wish I did. I have three six car sets of the AM heavyweights. I find the AM couplers to be way better than the ones on my AF by Lionel cars. I did have a lot of trouble initially with the couplers because the arm from the truck caused the couplers on the heavyweights to hang too low. Several fixes failed so I did the brute force method, replaced all the two axle trucks with AM 3 axle trucks. This completely solved the problem, picture below.
There is a coupler pad to body mount Kadees if desired. My layout has minimum 30"R curves and body mounts appear to work at that radius on the 72' cars. They will not work on the 84' cars at 30"R. Probably more like a 36"R. I think attempting to truck mount a Kadee would be in the too hard category because I find that long arm to be too flexible, plus with the long distance from the bolster to the end of the arm, a long vertical easement will be need at the bottom and top of all grades to keep the Kadees engaged.


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## RJC

Thanks for the information. I may just live with the situation.


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## AmFlyer

The only coupler I use in the passenger car sets are the front most coupler to connect up to the engine. If the coaches are in the passenger yard then the coupling is done on a straight track section so just opening the electrocoupler on the engine is usually enough to couple to the cars. AM makes closer to scale size fixed couplers for items that do not need to be routinely uncoupled. The solid couplers also mate with the standard KC's as well as the AF by Lionel electrocouplers. I bought some for use on my FA/FB AM engine set, they work well. They could be mounted on the end of the coupler arm in place of the operable couplers if one was so inclined. Here is a picture of one next to the AM coupler on the back of my FB unit.


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## RJC

Awesome photos!


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## AmFlyer

Thanks, I think that is about all I know from running the AM passenger cars. I wish I had some of those smooth sided PRR cars you have. I guess I need to look for some.


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## RJC

AmFlyer said:


> As you know, I am not a fan of the coupler arrangement. There are five cars to this set; combine, coach, dome, sleeper, and rear observation. I would part with them if you are truly interested Here are some photos even though they are not the greatest.


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## AmFlyer

If you are willing to part with them send me a PM using the Conversations feature on the site.


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## AmFlyer

Since the last post here I have acquired this set of five AM lightweight cars from Dick. These are full scale 80' cars made in the 1980's by American Models. They are 15 1/2" long; the heavyweight and Budd cars made by AM are 13 1/4" long and scale to 72'. As you can read above Dick was very frustrated with these cars, and for good reasons! Now that I have them in hand the marginal design of the truck arms and the coupler arms are apparent. The truck arm has no loop/slot to hold the coupler arm and the couplers had to be glued to the truck arms. These trucks are no longer available from AM. The cars were designed to operate on the AM 27"R track. My layout has 30"R and larger so the cars as currently configured run well on it, but because the coupler arms sag the weight on some of the couplers drags on the turnout points and causes random uncoupling.
These cars have a 1" gap when coupled, the heavyweights have a 5/8" gap and the Budd cars a 1/2" gap. I believe AM made an attempt to get them to run on 20"R track but they will not. I can get them on the rails of Gilbert track but the couplers were hitting the side skirting on the cars. As soon as I tried pulling them the car would derail, plus they will not go through Gilbert turnouts because the side of the car hits the turnout lantern box and derails the car.
I have some parts on order from AM to redo the couplers/trucks. I plan to install their solid scale couplers which will permanently eliminate random uncoupling. With these I can also close the distance between cars to 1/2" which will improve the appearance. I have yet to decide if I will install the new 2 axle trucks I took off my heavyweights or reuse the current trucks. Depends on how difficult it is to separate the glue joints between the truck arm and coupler arm.
These are nice cars that look great on the layout so I am glad I have them. No question AM had not perfected the design when these were made, but it is all fixable with some newer parts. Here are a couple of pictures. First is the train on the layout, the cars are longer than they appear in this picture. Next is the truck and coupler, the coupler arm is glued. The last picture is one of the newer heavyweights that shows the support and positioning loop in front of the rear axle along with the screw attachment. While this is a 3 axle truck the 2 axle trucks used on the heavyweights are made the same.


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## AFGP9

They do look good Tom. It sounds like you got the fix well in hand. I saw some of those same AM cars on eBay random pop ups the other night when I was looking for Southern Pacific engines. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

I just checked eBay, a lot of AM passenger cars but none of the 80' lightweights. I wonder where they went.


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## AFGP9

As I said they were pop up pictures. I didn't click on them so I don't know if they were set to end or what they actually were. If they are gone, maybe sold. 

Kenny


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## RJC

Tom,

The cars look fantastic on the layout. They are truly beautiful looking cars. I am glad they are now yours and you have the ability to make them more functional. I believe these cars are in great hands. Best of luck with them and enjoy them.


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## AmFlyer

I will post some finished pictures of the set. Likely in a couple of weeks because I am still waiting on the parts from AM. Then I have some trial fitting and testing to do with the trucks and couplers to get everything fitted right prior to final assembly. I want to do this right and do it only once.


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## RJC

Tom,

I hope all your work on these cars will be rewarded in the way you want. As I said, they are beautiful cars but the coupler system leaves much to be desired. When I wrote Ron about not being thrilled with these and does he have any recommendations to replace them, he became borderline belligerent by telling me he has used these couplers for over twenty-five years with no complaints. I did respond a bit testy by saying I did not care about the twenty-five years; they are bad couplers; period! He was no help and made me feel I had no right to criticize them. Sorry, they were bad, period.

Dick


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## Big Ed

AmFlyer said:


> Since the last post here I have acquired this set of five AM lightweight cars from Dick. These are full scale 80' cars made in the 1980's by American Models. They are 15 1/2" long; the heavyweight and Budd cars made by AM are 13 1/4" long and scale to 72'. As you can read above Dick was very frustrated with these cars, and for good reasons! Now that I have them in hand the marginal design of the truck arms and the coupler arms are apparent. The truck arm has no loop/slot to hold the coupler arm and the couplers had to be glued to the truck arms. These trucks are no longer available from AM. The cars were designed to operate on the AM 27"R track. My layout has 30"R and larger so the cars as currently configured run well on it, but because the coupler arms sag the weight on some of the couplers drags on the turnout points and causes random uncoupling.
> These cars have a 1" gap when coupled, the heavyweights have a 5/8" gap and the Budd cars a 1/2" gap. I believe AM made an attempt to get them to run on 20"R track but they will not. I can get them on the rails of Gilbert track but the couplers were hitting the side skirting on the cars. As soon as I tried pulling them the car would derail, plus they will not go through Gilbert turnouts because the side of the car hits the turnout lantern box and derails the car.
> I have some parts on order from AM to redo the couplers/trucks. I plan to install their solid scale couplers which will permanently eliminate random uncoupling. With these I can also close the distance between cars to 1/2" which will improve the appearance. I have yet to decide if I will install the new 2 axle trucks I took off my heavyweights or reuse the current trucks. Depends on how difficult it is to separate the glue joints between the truck arm and coupler arm.
> These are nice cars that look great on the layout so I am glad I have them. No question AM had not perfected the design when these were made, but it is all fixable with some newer parts. Here are a couple of pictures. First is the train on the layout, the cars are longer than they appear in this picture. Next is the truck and coupler, the coupler arm is glued. The last picture is one of the newer heavyweights that shows the support and positioning loop in front of the rear axle along with the screw attachment. While this is a 3 axle truck the 2 axle trucks used on the heavyweights are made the same.
> 
> 
> View attachment 549704
> View attachment 549705
> View attachment 549706




Nice picture, nice shot of mountain side.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks.


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## Big Ed

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks.


Is the table made to pull apart?
I am looking at the seam.
Can you access the inside of the tunnel somehow if you need to?


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## AmFlyer

The layout was built in 14 modules, the "seam" in the picture is one of the module joints. Were I to sell the house and want to move the layout it can be done. All the electrical uses jumpers to cross the module joints so that is about 30 wires to be lifted at each joint. The modules are bolted together so the bolts are easy to remove. The final challenge is the track since all the joints are soldered. I would just cut through the rail joiners at the module joints. From that point it just requires some strong and talented movers.
The scenery lifts out for access to the hidden track. Here is a picture of that module joint with the piece of scenery to the left removed. Kind of destroys the illusion. I take these out to clean the track. While hard to see them all in this picture there are seven hidden tracks there.


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## RJC

GG1 pulling the smooth-sided cars. How appropriate. What a terrific look. I use a GG1 and alternate with a pair of E8 A units to pull my PRR Budd cars.


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## AmFlyer

Here are my three PRR Tuscan engine choices. I do not have a GG1. The first is the ES44Ac, a Legacy diesel that is the best performing engine but from the wrong era to be pulling these coaches. Next is an E8, likely prototypically correct. Finally an American Models PA/PA set. Personally I think the PA/PA set has the best appearance in front of the long coaches. Still no parts from AM, but they have been sent. Perhaps USPS routed them through Fairbanks.


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## Old_Hobo

AmFlyer said:


> Personally I think the PA/PA set has the best appearance in front of the long coaches
> 
> 
> View attachment 549784


IMO, not only the best appearance, but likely the most prototypical for that era.....


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## RJC

Did the PRR run PA's?


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## Old_Hobo

They sure did.....


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## mopac

PAs looked good. I prefer E8s for looks. E8s were much more dependable engines.
Long after all PAs were retired E8s were still running. I have 4 sets of PA-PB-PAs.
All made by Lionel. They all look good and have matching passenger cars.
MoPac, C&O, UP, and SP. 3 have can motors and one has open frame AC motors.

Nice photo of the PRR PAs.


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## AmFlyer

Ok boys and girls, I received two packages of parts from AM this afternoon. After a lot more fiddling, trial and error, cursing and adjustments I have one car on the track and working. I am not sure this will be the final configuration for the trucks and couplers. The new heavyweight trucks fit on the cars but the design is slightly different so the coupler is about 1/16” too high and hits the KaDee mounting pad, not good. There is no easy way to fix this so I will likely need to cut through the long glue joint on the lightweight trucks to get the old couplers off without breaking the long coupler (Talgo?) arm. 
What I have done is replaced the interior printed paper with new replacements Dick included. I then put in a new AM circuit board with LED lighting and a large capacitor for flicker free lights. The pickup wipers are also new in the new correct size. The front has a new high rail coupler to connect to the engine. The rear, on the left, has a solid scale coupler, barely visible. I think this will couple the cars too close together so that also needs more development. Wish AM had done a bit more testing and development before these cars were made.
I am done for today, maybe more tomorrow.


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## AmFlyer

Here is a progress report on my project to improve the original AM full length (84’) passenger cars to what should have been made by AM. In addition I have replaced the original incandescent lighting with LED’s and a capacitor to eliminate flicker. The capacitor is good for 1/4 to 1/2 second of illumination which is plenty for minor pickup interruptions. The problem with these cars was two-fold. The trucks are unsprung but the sides can rotate on their mounts causing the couplers to move slightly, plus the long, flexible coupler mounting arm caused the couplers to droop. The net result was couplers whose bottom weight hit the turnout points and either uncoupled or derailed them. The “flexible” trucks were an abomination, fortunately no longer made. Unfortunately the newer two axle trucks mount the coupler too high for the under floor design of these old cars and there is no simple fix. I was forced to use the old trucks.
Following arrival of the parts from AM two cars are now done (at least I sure hope.) The coupler mounting arms were shortened 1/4” and the couplers remounted using glue plus a screw at the end of the arm near the coupler to prevent the coupler from drooping. New axle wipers were also installed. the high rail couplers were used rather than scale because the top to bottom thickness of the scale couplers was less than the flexibility in the truck and mounting arm. I could see these things continually uncoupling. The scale couplers worked fine with the new design trucks but they would not fit on these cars.
Here are some pictures.
The issue with the scale couplers mounted to flexible trucks rather than body mounted is apparent from the picture of the two couplers side by side. The next picture shows the as-built by AM spacing. The third picture shows the much closer spacing after the modifications. The improvement in the coupled train appearance is amazing. The last picture shows the clearance between cars on my minimum 30” curve radius. Pretty close, just as I wanted.


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## AmFlyer

One last picture today. Three cars are now finished and test run, all is perfect. The cars are on a 34”R curve for this shot. Track power is on so the cars are lit, there is no flicker at all with the new LED boards and new axle wipers. The close coupling makes a big difference and the oversize KC are now hidden under the cars for the most part.


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## Mikeh49

Looks great on your curves; would need to be different for 20" radius. Probably shouldn't even think about running scale length pass cars on standard AF track. How about a picture of the trucks and coupler from below.

How did you do the LEDs? Does AM have a LED board? I take it Legacy is DC track power, so capacitor is OK. Any brightness control? Resistor?


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## AFGP9

Nice improvement Tom. The car gap looks great. I am curious about the LED and capacitor procedure. I hate that flickering. Even in an AF caboose. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Those full scale cars will not run on 20"R track. AM designed them for their 27"R track. These cars are equivalent to 21" cars in O gauge and 11.5" cars in HO. I will post some pictures tomorrow. The 34" curve is equivalent to an O-90 or in HO it is a 25"R.
The LED lighting is a pre-made AM circuit board that attaches to the truck mounts with just two nuts.
Legacy was initially designed for engines that run on standard AC track power. The S gauge Legacy engines beginning with the Y-3 will work with DC track power if the operator chooses. By far the best transformer for Legacy layouts is the Lionel ZW-L. Also beginning with the Y-3, S gauge Legacy engines also work with DCC systems out of the box.


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## RJC

Tom,
What an outstanding job! You have done justice to a terrific looking set of passenger cars. AM was ill-advised to produce these cars with such inherent manufacturing flaws. You deserve much credit and I am glad they are in your possession. They have found a good home.


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## AmFlyer

Dick, this is taking far more time than I anticipated to devope the fix. No parts from the new heavyweights will interchange with these cars so I had to replan all the fixes. The actual mods are simple now that I have it worked out.
Here are some pictures that should tell the story. The first is the underside of the car with the as-built truck and coupler on it. The coupler is glued to the mounting arm and the axle wiper AM used appears to be one designed for the 3 axle trucks but installed upside down. The ends are supposed to cup the axles.
The second picture are three lighting circuit boards. At the bottom is an early incandescent, no capacitor. Middle is a newer incandescent with capacitor. This was ineffective because the Cap was not big enough to stop the flicker with incandescent bulbs. Top is a new LED board. There is no brightness adjustment but fortunately the brightness is just about right for these cars. Third is the underside of the board that shows the circuit contacts for the truck mounts. The next picture is the truck mount screw inside the car floor, the lighting boards sit on these nuts and are fastened down with one more nut to provide electrical contact. The last picture shows the long, unmodifed, very flexible coupler mount arm. I just cut 1/4" off the end of the arm, then glued and screwed the coupler arm to that truck arm. I also put new axle wipers on the trucks.


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## Mikeh49

Those light boards are a nice way to do it. Easy, especially for constant track voltage which gives constant brightness.


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## RJC

You have given these cars a good home. You can now advise on how to improve these cars to others who may own them.


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## AmFlyer

Dick, I will be happy to provide lessons learned to others, I may charge a consulting fee. The cars look good and run good, they are very free rolling.
I tested the cars and found two problems. The lights were not working on one car, so I replaced the axle wiper and fixed it. I have learned on these cars there is a secret trick to keeping the pickups working that is different than the heavyweights. Second problem is two couplers were low that were not low last night. I have decided to just clip off the plastic uncoupling pins since I will never remotely uncouple these cars. The head end coupler to the engine works fine so it can be remotely uncoupled.
So what I have done is:
Replaced the paper inserts in the cars with new ones Dick provided.
Modified the paper insert in the dome car to allow light into the dome area.
Shortened the coupler mounts and remounted the couplers to reduce the gap between cars to the bare minimum.
Installed new axle wipers for better pickup.
Installed new LED lighting circuit boards from AM.
Installed a PRR drumhead from AM on the Observation car.
Installed a scale coupler on the rear of the Observation car to enhance appearance

Still to be done is locating a red lens for the upper rear red light on the Observation car, similar to what is on the AM Budd cars. AM does not sell that as a replacement part.

Here are some pictures. This PRR passenger train looks great traversing the layout behind the AM PA/PA set. It also runs great.


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## RJC

Absolutely awesome!


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## AmFlyer

When Covid is behind us you should come out here and run them.


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## AmFlyer

I found red lenses that look like they will work on the PortLines site. They are replacements for the clear lenses in the Gilbert streamline observation cars.


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## AFGP9

Excellent work Tom! 

Kenny


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## Chuck7612

RJC said:


> Do you see any possible way to upgrade to Kadee's?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, drill the hole through the circular indention and screw on the coupler box with just one screw through the middle hole of the box.


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## AmFlyer

And make sure the layout has minimum 34"R curves for body mounted KaDees on these 84' cars. They will not run with body mounts on my 30" R curves. That is why I shortened the truck mount arms and left the couplers truck mounted.


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## AmFlyer

It has been some time since I updated this thread because I have been waiting on parts. Just got the shipment from Port Lines yesterday, it included the observation car red light. This part is from a Gilbert streamline observation but tinted red. It was a perfect fit. I am still waiting for the last AM shipment which has the rear DrumHead for the PRR observation car so it is missing in the pictures. Here are two pictures with the rear coupler and red light lens installed. The car lighting is LED. The five cars are in use and operate perfectly after all the upgrades.


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## AmFlyer

I received my long expected parts from AM last night, so this should be the last post I make here. The drumhead is now added, it identifies this train as the PRR Congressional. This project with the old AM lightweight 84’ passenger cars is now completed. The set is on the layout running behind my scale PA/PA engines.
Unfortunately for me I was comparing the appearance of my three AM heavyweight sets that have the shorter 72’ cars to this one. I custom cut all the coupler mounts to get the cars as close together as possible and not rub on 30”R curves, that distance is 1/2”. The three heavy weight sets now look incorrect with their bigger gaps designed for 20”R Gilbert track. I think I will shorten the coupler mounts on one heavyweight set when I get time and see if I like it a lot better. I will start a separate thread with those pictures.


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