# Beginner in every sense...



## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

My wife and I are just getting into model railroading. I have always had an interest but never pursued. We have been to several train shows over the past few years, including 2 within the last month. I feel fortunate that she has an interest. Sometimes it seems her interest exceeds my own.

We bought an O scale locomotive, rail cars, and some fastrack to go around our christmas tree this year. She loves O scale which I do like, but I prefer HO. I am very interested in designing a track layout in our unfinished basement but really have no idea where to begin.

I know pretty much nothing. I have done a bit of research lately and feel I can design my layout, but have no idea about switches, electrical, really don't know what I don't know. So, any advice and tips would be greatly appreciated. I have some questions.

I was looking at the Kato Unitrack. Is this an alright track system or should I stay clear due to the incorporated roadbed?

If Kato Unitrack is not preferred, is there a preferred track brand that is beginner user friendly?

For my layout I want it to be decent sized with possibly a snowy hillside/mountainside that the train passes through. I would love a turntable. Would also like to run two trains simultaneously if possible. If that is too much for a beginner, I get it. Just trying to provide as much info about what my interest is to get the best advice.

Also, I found three books I am thinking of purchasing. They are all put out by Model Railroader. Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on these:

Basic DCC Wiring for Your Model Railroad: A Beginner's Guide to Decoders, DCC Systems, and Layout Wiring
Wiring Your Model Railroad (Essentials)
Basic Trackwork for Model Railroaders, Second Edition (Essentials)
Basic Model Railroad Benchwork (Model Railroader Essentials Series)

Thanks to any and all for any tips and advice.

Tom


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

DCC is the way to go. why? because it is the easiest in the wiring department. onlt thing you really have to watch out for are the turn outs (switches). they need to be set up for DCC. now you said you had bought an "O" scale set. and you like HO. so which one are you going to do in the basement?

the books are a good place to start.

why DCC, because of the ability to run more than one train at a time in different directions. with a starter set from digitrax i found i could run 4 trains at a time, but only control one at a time, you need to switch back to a new address of another train to control it. to add control to all trains you could get more cabs,(they are like having extra power packs as in DC. EXP. out side track one could run with out control once set at sped. inside track another could be running in the opposite 
direction after sett it. than you could use a yard engine in the yard. the yard on would be under your control.

later own after understanding it a bit better you will most likely put blocks in.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello and welcome. The Kato track is good but very expensive and you are really tied to a Kato plan which is no bad thing but it does make it rather inflexible. Using something like Peco flex track with their turnouts gives you more scope when designing and lower cost. What sort of space do you have available? I'm guessing you'll be going DCC which is a sound choice, it adds much more to the hobby. You'll be able to run two or more trains at the same time.

By all means buy the books, it can only help you.

Good luck.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Another endorsement for the Model Railroader books. When I first started out in model railroading, I new next to nothing. The Model Railroader books got me going in the right direction. Lots of good info from experts at a reasonable price.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Welcome to the Forum. Yes, the books will be very helpful. But as you've most likely already discovered, there are many experts here on the Model Train Forum (MTF) who can also advise you in every aspect of model railroading. Any time you have a question or idea you want to sound out, post it here and you'll probably get more info than you know what to do with! VERY helpful people here!

Good luck, and once again, welcome. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Tom

You and your wife are embarking on a fascinating way to spend 
spare time.

Many of us feel that you can get the most usable layout with HO.
It's very term, HO, half of 0...so you'd need at least twice the
space to build the same layout in that scale.

And do heed what's been advised, avoid the track systems with
built on road bed. Not only are they expensive but they limit what
you can buy to what that brand offers.

Many of us use Atlas or other brand flex track. It comes in 3 foot
lengths and is bendable to match your layout design. You have
almost unlimited track accessories that are compatible such as
Turnouts and crossings of various makes.

While Atlas flex track is all but a standard with HO people, their
turnouts are not. I highly recommend Peco Insulfrog, they
are so well designed and built that you do not have turnout
caused derailments. 

The first thinking should go to determine the amount of space
you have to build your benchwork, and then what shape it might
be. One very popular shape is an extended U. The ends should
be wider than 4 feet so your curve radius is at least 26", but the
wider the better. You could let your main line meander but still
basically follow the outer edge of the U. You could have passing
sidings, one or two yards and a number of industrial spurs. 
DCC enables you to run two trains on a single track main one
clockwise, the other counterclockwise at the same time. The
passing sidings keep them from colliding.

Hope this gets your team minds to thinking of the possibilities
for your layout.

Just remember, the forum members have decades of model
experience and are happy to offer help and suggestions. Just
ask.

Don


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks to all for the responses so far. I forgot to mention our first layout will be an HO layout with DCC. We have almost unlimited space in the basement but will try to limit myself to an area no larger than a small bedroom.

Thank you for the information on the Kato Unitrack. I did not realize that I would be limited to their layouts with their track. I want flexibility and Atlas sounds like a great choice for flexibility and savings. And also thanks for the information on the turnouts. Also, glad to read that DCC will allow me to run two trains at the same time. I will have to research passing sidings and industrial spurs.

Is it worth it to use a track layout software? Seem to be a few out there that may be helpful.

Again, thanks for the tips and advice so far. Seems like I found a good forum.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXXLdEv_dqY Check out Mike Fifer's method of flexing Unitrak. I would stick with the Kato. You really can create any layout you want, but yes, the layout software helps to validate the fit of the sectional track. I'm not sure which software would have a library of Kato sections. Probably another member could answer that. 
That Kato track is hard to beat for reliability and ease of installation. Pick yourself up a starter layout kit, and you can be running within minutes! (Well, take that with a grain of salt, but it's quick!)


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Most everyone calls it Kay -toe, except the company itself, which calls it Kah-toe. Go figure. USns must Americanize everything...


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Sure you can flex unitrack by cutting slots in the bed but it still doesn't give you as much as proper flextrack. Don't get me wrong its an excellent bullet proof system and extremely quick to fix. Don't forget the OP has a large area to cover which is going to take a lot of track, turnouts and motors which is fine if he has a large budget, perhaps he should respond to that. I still say its less flexible, don't forget he's just starting out so might not know where to start with a blank sheet of paper.


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

True, Cycleops, I am not sure where to begin. I don't even know what OP is. I am getting the feeling I need to get a bit of research in before I jump in.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tc228jc said:


> True, Cycleops, I am not sure where to begin. I don't even know what OP is. I am getting the feeling I need to get a bit of research in before I jump in.


OP is you = Original Poster.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Tom, welcome to the hobby and the forums! There are lots of helpful folks here, some of us with many years of experience in the hobby, and none of us are afraid to share advice, suggestions, and experience. Not always a good thing.

So, a couple of things to start off. First of all, whatever you decide to do, you only have to please you and your wife. There is no need to do something because someone tells you to.

Secondly, as you've no doubt discovered, there are as many opinions as there are experts. There is no "one true path" in this hobby, only a few laws of physics you have to observe. Almost everything is about tradeoffs. Kato Unitrack (or any roadbed track) simplifies the assembly process, but adds cost and limits variety (you're not limited to Kato track plans, but if you want -- or need-- a 23.5" radius curve, and they don't make one, you're out of luck). Sectional track without roadbed has the same geometry limits, but at a lower cost, and somewhat trickier assembly. Basically, it's the Project Management Triangle, where the three corners represent optimal cost, schedule, and quality. As you increase quality, cost increases and it takes more time; you can throw it together cheaply and quickly, but quality will suffer; you can have it cheap and well done, but it takes a long time.

My other big piece of advice to beginners is, don't rush. Yes, it's exciting to start a new hobby, but I recommend taking some time to do research and make some prelininary decisions about what you want to do before spending a lot of money. Don't worry about terminology, you'll pick it up. All that said, there is such a thing as "paralysis by analysis". There comes a time when you have to take a deep breath and start building. If you try to acquire every bit of knowledge, or anticipate and solve every potential problem before you start, you will never start. Most of us have some pretty big do-overs along the way, many start over from scratch. I myself have had one complete restart, one major redesign, and numerous minor tweaks in the dozen years I've been back in the hobby.

So good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions.


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## leadsled (Dec 25, 2014)

Lots of good advice here!

Since you have a nice large area for a layout, perhaps you should just start with something small that could eventually be part of a much larger layout?

There are a lot of 4x8 plans on the internet. This way you can get some experience with the various aspects of the hobby. At a later time then you probably would have a much better idea of what you want to get out of your layout.

Good Luck and Have Fun!


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> ...All that said, there is such a thing as "paralysis by analysis". There comes a time when you have to take a deep breath and start building. If you try to acquire every bit of knowledge, or anticipate and solve every potential problem before you start, you will never start.


This is how I am beginning to feel. There is so much information out there that I will never understand and may never begin. CTValleyRR, your entire response is great. Thank you.

Right now I just want to jump in and get going. I can be very impatient and when I want to start something, I want instant gratification and want all knowledge "now". One reason I want to get involved with this, other than I have always had this interest, is to help slow me down. Do something that will take some time. Just go slow and enjoy the ride. My mind is spinning with lack of knowledge and where to begin. I am researching track plans and really have no idea what I want, what is needed, etc. At this point I want to find a plan that I like that has everything that I will need listed so I can just get everything together and begin. I guess I am used to building a kit with specific directions and parts lists as opposed to designing myself.

Quick question. Is Atlas Flextrack difficult for a beginner to use? Seems like a good product.

I have to say that in my limited experience here, this forum has been great. I enjoy differing opinions and sound advice. Glad I joined.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

tc228jc said:


> True, Cycleops, I am not sure where to begin. I don't even know what OP is. I am getting the feeling I need to get a bit of research in before I jump in.


Sorry, the OP is you, the Original Poster. We use a lot of jargon on these forums! 

If you're feeling a bit swamped why don't you just try building a small shelf layout, about say 5' x 18" or thereabouts. This will help you get the feel for building. All mine are this size as I don't have much room now. There are loads of plans on the net, start by having a look here : http://www.carendt.com/category/small-layout-scrapbook/


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I think Cyclops has given you some wise advice. I started by building a very small diorama...I got the feel of laying roadbed, laying track, assembling a building kit, doing scenery with some foam and cork, ballasting the track, and on and on. It was a great teaching tool for me. And everything was reusable afterwards. Good Luck!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Starting small is not bad advice. One way to do that and yet be
ready for expansion is to build your layout benchwork as modular.
For example 4 X 4 modules of 1 X 3" lumber for framing and L legs
made of it. Screw everything, never nail. When you get 2 or 3 or
even more modules made, set them up in various designs and see
if anything appeals to you. When you like one way, bolt the modules
together. A tip, bore holes in the inner frames for later passing
wires and cables. Consider leveling feet for the legs.

To get you started on your layout thinking figure out what
appeals to you...continuous running where you can sit back and
watch the trains go round and round....or maybe switching, moving
cars from trains to yards and industries on spur tracks...
This can really challenge your operations...if you have the spurs and
yards designed right, it becomes something like a chess game.
Then, of course, there is the combination of those two major 
model train factors.

I am particularly fond of a single track main line with passing sidings.
If you have DCC you can run two trains at the same time on it one
clockwise and the other counterclockwise.

Another is scratch building of structures, bridges, trestles, streams,
even water falls.

Keep us posted as to where your plans take you.

Don


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

Don, do you have an example of single track main line with passing sidings? 

I plan to go with DCC.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

A lot of folks get started with a "canned" layout. I did (45 years ago). It's attractive to a real beginner because it gives you a starting point, and you know where you will end up. Plus it helps eliminate the "oh crap" factor when you realize you're missing a key component at 7:00 on a Saturday night.

There are two risks to doing this. First of all, designs that look good on paper can be total garbage, with steep grades and unacceptably tight curves. Secondly, you may get it built, only to find you completely disagree with the designers philosophy: maybe he wants to watch trains run through scenery, whereas you prefer switching industries.

The other problem, of course, is that there are literally thousands of plans out there, so you just substitute "I don't know what to pick" for "I don't know what to do".

If you can accept the possibility of a total redo, though, these prefab plans can be a great way to get started.

And no, flex track is not particularly hard to work with. It's chief drawback is that you can form the track into configurations (sharp curves and S turns) that your equipment won't like very much.

Don't worry about information overload. Spend a week or so voraciously reading, here and everywhere else you can find, and you'll be surprised how fast things will start to fall into place. You might want to invest in a couple of issues of Model Railroader magazine (generally at this time of year, they do a walkthru of building a layout). Another good source is Model Railroad Hobbyist (www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com). This is a free on-line only publication, with back issues to 1Q2009 (it's now published monthly) available. Some of the articles are very advanced, but there are some good beginner articles there too.


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

Thank you again, CTValley! Your words are encouraging and much appreciated! An hour ago I subscribed online to Model Railroad Hobbyist and yesterday picked up the Model Railroader issue you mentioned with the layout walk through. Glad I am on the right path. I found a layout that I like but will modify more to something I prefer. Will try to figure out how to use one of these track plans software. In my mind I envision a layout running two trains just going round and round with the option to do a little switching and moving cars from trains to yards on spur tracks.


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

As you found the layout that you like, how big is it and what is the name of the layout that you are interested in? 

Just start from there. Later on, you will see that you want to make the change, then work from there. 

Lot of us learn from the mistakes/dislikes, we work from there to meet our expectations and be happy afterward.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Track planning software. There's a huge can of worms to open. Generally, though, I am a big fan of them, so long as you understand that no computer can design a layout for you; it can only help you do it.

Avoid ones that are proprietary to a company (looking at you, Atlas). While the price is right (free), their purpose is as much to sell track as it is to help with layout design.

I would also recommend that you avoid the 3D CAD products, unless you are very familiar with the basic concepts already. The learning curve is simply too steep.

My personal favorite is Anyrail (www.anyrail.com). Yes, it costs $70, but it's easy to use, fully supported, and has a huge library of track and user generated content (mostly structures).

I guess, of the free stuff, I'd have you look at SCARM, which is a capable tool and has lots of track plans available, but it's a one man show.

Especially here, this is just one person's opinion, and you will get several conflicting opinions on this.


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

I used SCARM to create the layout below. Thoughts?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Good continuous running layout, BUT...I would eliminate the inside
'oval' and run a single track main. Then utilitze the space to widen
the radius on your curves. If you want to run any of the big steamers
or the 6 wheel truck contempory diesels you'll need better
than what I see in your plans. You plan to use DCC so you can run
two or more trains on a single track main. You would need about 4
passing sidings.

You also will want to have more industrial spurs and yard tracks. You'll
find that switching operations can be a challenging and enjoyable
pass time.

Don


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I'd echo Dons comments, watching trains going round and round can get tedious, you need some switching operations by adding industry spurs. You need to give your layout a 'Raison d'être. Have you thought about an era? You don't need to of course, you can run whatever pleases you, its your railroad.


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks for the advice, Don and Cycleops! The size of the ends of the table where the curves are is 4 feet across. Do I need it to be wider? When using the software I used the Atlas 18"/30degree curves. What kind of curve radius should I shoot for? I have not thought of any era at all. Just want to run some different trains, put down some scenery for now.


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

4 feet across is fine. Just barely enough to reach the backend of the table. Others prefer 3 feet for easier reach, across the table. Most of time, it is ideal to get wider radii like 22" and 24" tracks. That is the radius, not diameter.


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## tc228jc (Jan 15, 2016)

OH! That makes a ton more sense. So, when I was using the 18", it was a tighter curve. I will redraw making the table 3 feet wide and use 22" or 24" curves and see what I come up with. Impressive that you all caught that tight curve from a picture. I guess that shows the level of experience. Thank you very much.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You seem to have the space to widen the ends of your U (balloon) to make
possible 24 or more radius curves. You also could let the return track
swing closer to the top thus widening your 'inside' curves. Be sure
to widen the two top curves also. By making these changes you'll
be able to run any loco or car on the market today. 

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I think if you make the curve radius tweaks suggested by the others, and maybe make your layout a little NARROWER (I'm 6'1", and 30" is about the limit of my useful reach, so unless you have, or can get, access from all sides, you will have trouble) you will have a good beginner layout that will last you for years.

On the subject of continuous running, a little more caution is in order. You say that you just want to watch trains run with some switching, and this layout will accomplish that. And maybe that is all you'll ever want to do, which is fine. The guys have suggested adding more switching, but I would suggest you table that for now, but remain open to making modifications later if you DO realize that you want to do more and watch less. Don't let that decision bog you down right now.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Kay-toe Kah-toe, Tomato tomato*



cid said:


> Most everyone calls it Kay -toe, except the company itself, which calls it Kah-toe. Go figure. USns must Americanize everything...


 Kato(pronounced Kah-toe) is the last name of the gentleman who started/ owns the company.
Kay-toe was the Green Hornet's sidekick, played by Bruce Lee, in the old TV series. :laugh: 

Traction Fan


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