# Need help with a Rivarossi Union Pacific Big Boy



## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

Hello to all.

I'm new here and to ModelTrainForum.com. My background is in modelling and I usually post at HobbyTalk. I was directed here by a member because I was given a project I hope some of you can help me with. 

This involves a Rivarossi Big Boy engine. The project is this: The owner of this would like to have a fully functional engine in a "static" display. This could be on a short piece of track with the engine elevated to prevent movement. He would like all the bells and whistles the engine has to work. He has no room for a track layout and therefor wants the static display. This is the only part of a model railroading set that he has, and is somehow emotionally attached to the "Big Boy". 

I have zero model railroading background, and I am amazed to see how far the hobby has evolved. 

Could someone point me in the correct way as to do this? What controllers or other items do I need to purchase to do this project? 

Thanks in advance.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi iriseye, and welcome. i deleted the other thread to avoid discussion confusion.

As to the subject, i agree with your suggestion of engine elevated (but only barley) above track. power would be wired from underneath and supplied probably by fixed supply of lower voltage to turn the wheels slower and display the valvetrain work. 
for chuff, bells and wistles i would probably think of externa sound sources rather then speaker built into the engine. i seen several sound generating boards , will link if i manage to find this again.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Hey you made it. Welcome.  Hopefully you will find the advice you need here.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm with Anton...slightly elevated or...if you have the coin...http://www.internettrains.com/merch...een=PROD&Store_Code=IT&Product_Code=MRK-78151


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Since I dont have a BB here to look at, I'd say use wood blocks under the chassis, one under each set of drive wheels, and have them sanded down enough to make it look like the wheels are on the track, but not so much they actually touch. Fab up a set of small tabs to get power from the tracks to the loco. Then install a sound decoder and get a cheap DCC system to hook up to it and use the DCC/decoder to produce the sound and have it somewhat synchonized with the wheels. Then if you ever wanted to run the train on real track its already set to go!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

A wild "big bucks" idea ...

Loco slightly elevated above the rails, per above.

Rails (only) stiff and supported from ends within hidden structure.

Ties that are mounted on some sort of clear film in a conveyer-belt style (like one of those moving sidewalks at an airport). As the belt spins, the ties appear to move along the track ... giving the illusion that the train is actually moving with forward motion.

The belt could be run on a motor with a speed that proportional to the speed/rotation of the loco wheels.

Now THAT would be cool. One could burn away a lot of money building something like that!

TJ


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks all for your suggestions. I'm looking into all of them, but leaning toward the suspended suggestion. 

Now for a couple of more questions. 

What would any of you reccommend for a cheap sound decoder and a cheap DCC system? Remember, I will be running only this engine, and not multiple engines. I've looked at the Bachmann EZ Command, any other recommendations?

Remember I'm a newbie to model trains, and just took a crash course in DCC over the last couple of days (amazing stuff). Are most of the models plug and play? Will most controllers work with this engine? 

One final note. In the box with the engine is a tiny pc board with a 22 pin connector on one side and what appears to be two diodes and one capacator on the other side. What is it?

I'm sure I'll have a few more questions as this project progresses, but thanks for all the help so far.


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

Just so I'm sure we are all on the same page--

Box tag says: Rivarosssi HR2099 Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Weathered DCC/Sound 4014


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Something like this? http://www.micromark.com/Ho-and-On30-Locomotive-Rollers-Assembled-Set-Of-4,8274.html


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those rollers look like just the ticket, you could hide them below faux track to make it look like the locomotive is actually running on the track.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I have seen a modeler who uses these>>> http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/SCB/Kit2 mounted to both sides of a square LEGO piece, as a roller assembly. The blocks are 5/8", which is perfect for HO gauge.


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

*concretepumper* and *shaygetz*

Both are great ideas. Now to solve the mystery of the controller.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

iriseye said:


> Thanks all for your suggestions. I'm looking into all of them, but leaning toward the suspended suggestion.
> 
> Now for a couple of more questions.
> 
> ...


even the cheapest sound decoders run about 50 dollars and the sound quality they produce is not the best. QSI or Tsunamis decoders are the way to go for good sound quality. The Bachmann Ez-command is the cheapest DCC system and will most likely be your best bet since it is running just one engine. This board you speak of most likely instead of being the 22 pin you are thinking of has to be 8 or 9 pin for it to be ready and is what controls the train's motor and lights.



iriseye said:


> Just so I'm sure we are all on the same page--
> 
> Box tag says: Rivarosssi HR2099 Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Weathered DCC/Sound 4014


If this is correct your engine already has a DCC Sound decoder installed into it and is even weathered to look more realistic. So you need to get either the Ez-command system to test this or a DC power pack to see if the engine makes sound. If sound is produced then you just simply need to get the wheel roller system or braced above the rails system to work and you will be set.


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

First of all, I would like to thank all of you here for all of your help. You guys have been great!

Over the last week, I've gone from DC to learning about DCC. It's a great learning process. 

Progress:

Yesterday, the owner of the "Big Boy" took me for a ride to the LHS on his dime (believe me, it was not local). The shop specializes in model railroading. There I was able to explain to him what I wanted to do, and he also had never heard of such a request but was very helpful. He ordered a set of four "rollers" very similar to what *concretepumper* reccommended. I want to countersink these below the track. The owner of the "Big Boy" also purchased a DCC controller: TECH 6 SOUND CONTROLLER 2.0 by MRC. Anyone familier with this controller? Any good? (The LHS owner will refund the money if anyone is unhappy with it)

So: After reading the requsite manuals I hooked up the "Big Boy" on a piece of test track--and lo and behold--it works! (I must state the working the shift key for functions F10+ is a little cumbersome. After seeing and hearing what this engine can do, I now feel it's a shame to have it in a static position. It really needs to be in action. 

Final question (I hope): How can you tell if the engine is equipped to "smoke" or handle "liquid smoke"? Would this be stated in the instruction supplied with the engine? (I see no such mention)

Addendum: When we got back to his house, the owner also showed me another engine he had, a Union Pacific M-1 0000 (lights, no sound). I think that after seeing both of these "in action" he will decide to in fact to do a complete layout by making room in the basement.

Mysterious PC board supplied with "Big Boy":
(front and back)


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One thing about smoke. If you run it with smoke, after some period of time it'll run out. If you continue to run it with the smoke unit on, it'll toast the wick and the smoke unit will no longer work.

I'd think of either not using smoke, or some other way. Perhaps pipe in smoke with a small plastic tube up into the engine.

That board is just a couple of diodes and a cap. I'm guessing that's the connection for the DCC decoder and that's their "dummy".


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

the mysterious board looks like DC plug for NEM 21pin decoder connectior quick connect. used in many newer European models.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I have never seen a HO factory DCC engine made with smoke. Not to say it can't be done.
I have installed decoders and smoke units in HO and buildings to control the smoke.
In a static unit you can also use a remote injection pump to supply smoke fluid to the unit to keep it going for longer periods of time.
You had said that you ordered 4 rollers for the big boy? or was it 4 sets, You need a set of rollers for every drive wheel set you can not let them just hang and turn they will bind and ware.
The MRC tech 6 sound controller 2.0 is just a fancy "sort of DCC" controller. it is not a true DCC controller and is very limited to what it will actually do.
You mentioned that you did not like switching from F10 to get the rest of the functions to work, to get around that you need to get another type of controller.
If you are truly looking to create a working static display then I would suggest that you look at a better system that you can integrate computer control so you can write a script to run it automatically.
I would look into a Digitrax system. With a PR3 interface you would be able to do exactly that with out that much expense. And the software program to run it is JMRI.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Don't forget the Three light Signal in the Background!


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

iriseye said:


> First of all, I would like to thank all of you here for all of your help. You guys have been great!
> 
> Over the last week, I've gone from DC to learning about DCC. It's a great learning process.
> 
> ...


Look into the smokestack and see if there is a wick or some sort of thing like that. If you see straight through to the track or workbench their is no smoke unit for sure. I have seen MTH units come with smoke units but they are mainly DCS units. I think BLI makes some engines with a smoke unit preinstalled. I don't think the Rivarossi does though.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

NIMT.COM said:


> I have never seen a HO factory DCC engine made with smoke. Not to say it can't be done.
> ...
> If you are truly looking to create a working static display then I would suggest that you look at a better system that you can integrate computer control so you can write a script to run it automatically.
> I would look into a Digitrax system. With a PR3 interface you would be able to do exactly that with out that much expense. And the software program to run it is JMRI.


many european models hve smoke generators from the factory.

disagreed. tPR3 will not serve as stand alone command station, the only track output is program track. and the idea of getting full DCC system for static display is , sorry, rediculous. you don't hire bucket-wheel excavator when planting tomatoes in the yard, do you? noneed to complicate it that much.
even if ordinary HO sound decoder is used it may be a DC compatible one , removing the need for anythign other then DC pack. 
and yet even more appropriate solution for the given task is a premade sound modules like these: http://www.jimsmodeltrains.com/-strse-Sound-Modules/Categories.bok and thats without to much searching. i remember seeng ~40-50$ universal module that does it all.


EDIT:
funny thing this just popped out. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=63759&postcount=1


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

> You had said that you ordered 4 rollers for the big boy?


These are sold in sets of four. I ordered one set, and will have a better idea when I can hold them in my hand. The LHS owner said one set will do the trick. (Remember, I didn't know anything about the other engine until AFTER the LHS visit).



> Look into the smokestack and see if there is a wick or some sort of thing like that.


I can see neither a wick or the workbench. But if it doesn't smoke, I can roll with that. (I would think that if it did smoke, something would have been mentioned in the instructions).



> you don't hire bucket-wheel excavator when planting tomatoes in the yard, do you? noneed to complicate it that much.


I agree with *tankist*. I know there are much better systems out there, but just need to get what I need for this project. If the owner decides to go with a layout, that will bring on a whole nother set of questions. 

Again, thanks guys. I know you all don't agree on everything all the time, but thanks for steering me in the right direction.


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

*Project completed !*

I finally finished the project. There was a long delay as the LHS had trouble finding and ordering the rollers. I ended up ordering them myself from MicroMark. 

I would like to especially thank *concretepumper* for steering me to MicroMark for the rollers.

Photos below:

















Thanks to all, again.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks great, where's the smoke?


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

I opted not to go for the smoke--too much reworking.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think I'd tie the back end down so it doesn't take off if a roller binds.


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## iriseye (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't think the rollers will bind (I mean I paid enough for them). LOL


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You better hope not!  I think I'd put a hidden safety cord under the loco just in case anyway. Don't know what would happen if it jumped off the rollers and headed forward, but it's probably not a desirable ending. :laugh:


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