# DCC controlled turnouts, what brand to buy?



## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

I'm currently using bachmann ez-track, but if were to switch over to some brand of flex track, what brand/model of dcc turnout is a good choice?

Lets say code 100, and I want turn-key functionality for the DCC turnout.

ADDED: Is turnkey even available for flex-track type turnouts, or would there always be some assembly required to make them function?


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Hi,

I went with Peco Code 83 Streamline.

The turnouts need no wiring but you have to be sure to use insulated rail joiners (or just gaps in the track) on the frog side of the turnout in certain situations.

Not code 100 but I wanted the smaller rail.

It meant I had to sell a lot of my old locos but that was a nice excuse to buy new ones.

Frederick


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

First Tom...forget about DCC turnouts. There really
is no such animal. Manufacturers claim such but it's
all promotional nonsense.

You would do well to build your layout using flex
track. It is so much easier to create your own
track design without being limited to what EZ and
other similar track on roadbed types offer.

Also, flex is compatible with all makes of turnouts and
other track accessories.

Now, back to your question about DCC and turnouts.
Only a few turnouts actually use DCC for point
control. Most of us with DCC layouts utilize the twin coil or stall motor type of point control.

Even tho several companies make turnouts, there
are actually only two types, both compatible with DCC.

One type is similar to Peco Insulfrog and most
Atlas turnouts; The frog is plastic. Unless you run
a short 4 wheel loco any loco built in the last decade or so
with all wheel power pickup will run thru them without pause.

The other type is like Peco's Electrofrog. The
frog is metal and conducts power to the wheels.
But you must use an insulated joiner in the
frog rails to avoid a short circuit. It would let
the short 4 wheel loco run thru without pause;
other than that is has little benefit.

I have 20 or so Peco Insulfrog turnouts on my
room size DCC layout. I run only diesels with
all wheel power pickup. No power pickup problems.

Some other members have had more experience
with Shinohara turnouts sold by Walthers and they
likely will have suggestions for you. They, like
Peco are considered to be top quality products.

I don't know what you mean by 'turn key' but hope
I have clarified the turnout situation for you.

Don


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Turn key means you can pull it out of the box, install/program it and it will work without adding other components or doing other building tasks to make it run. Turn key i.e. turn on the car and drive.

Thanks for the info on turnouts. If you've been reading a lot of my posts you know I currently only do a holiday layout. The controller I use to run a trolley (rail bus) back and forth will also automatically send a DCC accessory command so I could add a turnout or 2 to make it more interesting, but it would be completely automatic. That's the catalyst to my question.

On a side note, I ran across this video that explains frogs and it's very interesting:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Turn-key really doesn't apply to track. You can throw just about anything together and it will work out of the box, but there are some recommended practices to make sure you get reliable operation, and to be able to operate them remotely. For my money, I don't rush. I take the time to do it right, and that means making sure everything is level and properly aligned. I also add under-table motors and remote control to my turnouts, and solder my track joints once i am sure the track is how i want it.

I use MicroEngineering flex track and Walthers-Shinohara turnouts in code 83.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Turn-key really doesn't apply to track.


I get that, and I'm not using the term completely correctly, because I too will futz with stuff to get it right. What I mean though is that I don't have a permanent platform, so I can't drill holes and mount stuff out of site. The stuff needs to be self-contained, preferably.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Some turnout points (Peco) have springs, so they can be flipped with a finger and will stay thrown. Others come with a manual throw attached, but these are generally at the lower end of the quality scale. Or it's fairly simple to attach a commercial ground throw.

Generally, though, this hobby doesn't lend itself to temporary layouts. You would be better served by making a series of 2x4 modules that are permanent, but only joined together into a layout when desired (often in different configurations). This concept allows you much more freedom to build, without requiring a dedicated space.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Good idea on the modules.

So, let me ask this another way. Aside from Bachmann, are there any self contained DCC controlled turnouts available?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Tom

I did misread your first post on the subject
of DCC controlled turnouts.

After reading your post again, I think you are
asking is there a 'turn key' turnout that is
DCC controlled. I doubt you would find one
that is ready to install right out of the box. 

There are 3 components to a DCC controlled
turnout. The turnout itself, the twin coil or
stall motor that throws the points, and lastly,
a Stationary DCC decoder. The decoder would
power the 'motor' to throw the points based on
digital info from your DCC controller. But, they are
easy to assemble, so if that's what you are seeking
you can first select the turnout itself, and it's motor.
Then select from several brands of Stationary DCC
decoders. The manual of each device would tell
you how to connect. 

Does that get to where you want to go?

Don


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Don, I edited my initial post and the title to be more clear, so I was likely most at fault for not being clear.

Thanks for your posts. I will do some more reading on the topic, but your last post does point me in the right direction.

This particular question relates to a yet to be built future layout that will likely be more permanent and/or use some modules as CTvalley mentions. It will still need to be durable and need to be taken apart to store, so the less fragile everything is, the better.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Stationary decoder such as the Digitrax DS64 control twin coil or stall motors. The DS64 can be controlled by a push button switch, your throttle or by computer (ie JMRI). There are other types of stationary decoders that do similar operations. I changed form using a Switch-it stationary decoder to the DS64 because the DS64 was more programmable and did not need to use track power.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

So I'm not sure that we've given you a clear answer, although we've thrown a lot of ideas at you.

There is no such thing as a turnout which, out of the box, allows you to control it from your DCC handheld throttle.

The reason is that, as Don discusses, there are a number of ways to do this, and there is no clear winner (a matter of personal preference). I personally don't know of anyone who uses their DCC controller to line turnouts. A few use manual ground throws, and the rest are pretty evenly split between fascia mounted controls (both manual and electronic) and dispatcher panels, which are almost exclusively electronic. That's what i do. I say almost exclusively because i do know a guy (actually a monk who built his layout in the room above the library) who built a working replica of an interlocking tower's levers which he uses to control his turnouts, with LED indications on a panel to show which doeection the points are thrown.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

It's all good. I was under the wrong impression that there were more dcc turnouts being used and sold than there are. Bachmann has the ez-track dcc turnouts but I read a lot of bad things about them with derailments, etc, and being ez-track sort of defeats the purpose.

I likely will get one or 2 to test them out for my own education if nothing more and I likely will be using ez-track for a while until we get our mountain house to a point that we can start using it more (that's another long story, but we're building a retirement house out-of-pocket, so it's a long, slow process)

I know my own style of most things I get into is that it's the journey that's fun, not really the destination. Once I figure something out I often move on to something else to figure out.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

Tom_C said:


> It's all good. I was under the wrong impression that there were more dcc turnouts being used and sold than there are. Bachmann has the ez-track dcc turnouts but I read a lot of bad things about them with derailments, etc, and being ez-track sort of defeats the purpose.
> 
> I likely will get one or 2 to test them out for my own education if nothing more and I likely will be using ez-track for a while until we get our mountain house to a point that we can start using it more (that's another long story, but we're building a retirement house out-of-pocket, so it's a long, slow process)
> 
> I know my own style of most things I get into is that it's the journey that's fun, not really the destination. Once I figure something out I often move on to something else to figure out.


EZ-track is fine. EZ-Track TURNOUTS are junk.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Are there any 'surface mount' twin coil or stall motor throws or any that could be easily concealed in something small and unobtrusive?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Just to reiterate, if you're reading "DCC turnouts" in somebody's marketing literature, then you're being misled by marketing hype. Forget the concept. A turnout is a turnout is a turnout. Some are built better than others, but the turnout itself doesn't care what control scheme you have.

You install a remote controlled operator for said turnout. If you want to control it via your DCC system, you add a small circuit board called a stationary decoder.

Atlas sells twin solenoid machines that sit next to the turnouts and will throw your points. With a little work, they can be adapted to other brands of turnouts. They're about 2-1/2 inches long and 1/2" wide, so they're not too hard to conceal. You just have to allow the mechanical linkages to move freely. You could conceivably hide just about any stall motor unit or servo in a trackside structure, or with conveniently placed landscaping. Some of these are as small as a cubic inch, but you still need room for the mechanical linkage.

In my opinion, you're going to waste a lot of time, effor, and money contriving ways to disguse machines mounted on the table top (which aren't going to be very conducive to being taken up and reinstalled repeatedly). Getting the turnouts to throw properly with a driver that isn't a permanent part of the turnout is a little fiddly, and i think you would quickly tire of adjusting them.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

I understand the turnouts are not dcc. I get it. Really.

I won't ask any more stupid questions.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Tom_C said:


> I understand the turnouts are not dcc. I get it. Really.
> 
> I won't ask any more stupid questions.


It's only a stupid question if you don't ask it.

It just helps if when you reply, it looks like you understood what people told you. Sometimes we overload beginners with details and they miss stuff. No worries.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> It just helps if when you reply, it looks like you understood what people told you.





Tom_C said:


> What I mean though is that I don't have a permanent platform, so I can't drill holes and mount stuff out of site. *The stuff needs to be self-contained, preferably.*





Tom_C said:


> Good idea on the modules.
> So, let me ask this another way. *Aside from Bachmann, are there any self contained DCC controlled turnouts available?*





Tom_C said:


> It's all good. I was under the wrong impression that there were more dcc turnouts being used and sold than there are. Bachmann has the ez-track dcc turnouts …. ….



I thought I was demonstrating that I DID understand. I will try to be more careful.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

To close out this thread let me summarize. This is for HO track.

The only DCC Controlled turnout (self-contained unit) I have found is the Bachmann EZ Command DCC turnout, but please don’t misunderstand; the only thing that is DCC about the turnout is the control mechanism. 
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/inde...t_info&cPath=879_604_782_783&products_id=2510 Quality is questionable with many reports of derailments.

I’ve found other turnouts with surface mounted switch machines from Atlas http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/Track/Trackphotos/Code100/851.jpg and Peco http://www.peco-uk.com/imageselector/Files/Track-templates/SL-91,92.pdf which requires their motor http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309&CAT_ID=3337&P_ID=17674 

There is at least one other brand like this one from Walthers called Life-Like https://www.walthers.com/remote-controlled-18-quot-radius-turnout-code-100-nickel-silver-right-hand
All of these are just remote turnouts. If you want them to be DCC controlled then you need to add a DCC stationary decoder like a Digitrax http://www.digitrax.com/products/stationary-decoders/ , Tam Valley Depot http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/microsingletservodecoder.html or probably many others.

Here’s some other resources: http://www.dccwiki.com/Turnout_Motors 

http://www.pmrr.org/Articles/indexTrackTortoise_Installations.htm 

https://sites.google.com/site/markg.../coil-accessory-decoders/coil-switch-machines

I hope someone finds this helpful.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

So -- not quite ready to close out the thread. Some clarification is in order.

With the EZ Command instructions you posted above, I was able to locate the turnouts in question. They are, for some odd reason, listed with the EZ Command items, not with the regular track.

They do come with a pre-installed DCC stationary decoder. BUT at $80 each, that's almost twice what a decent turnout ($30) plus a Digitrax or Tam Valley decoder (~$15) costs, and the Bachmann turnouts are of dubious quality, as are their decoders (I've had trouble with their mobile decoders -- even the ones that work buzz horribly). So I would have to say my recommendation would be to take a pass on these. Any "out of the box" functionality would have to be weighed against long term reliability, and in my book reliability wins, hands down, every time.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

In fairness the Bachmanns can be found for $40-60 depending on the model, but that doesn't change the quality.

I fixed the link to the bachmann turnout, just another mistake on my part.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Tom

You've done a good job with research.

One point about the EZ DCC turnouts...they
use proprietary track on roadbed design that
more or less limits you to EZ tracks. They're
not readily compatible with Atlas or other make
flex or sectional tracks.

Your best bet is, as has been suggested, to go with
your choice of Peco, Walther's Shinohara or Atlas turnouts
with the twin coil or stall motor point power but
controlled by a stationary decoder of either brand.
Atlas turnouts are not as popular as the other
brands for quality.

Don


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

DonR said:


> Tom
> 
> You've done a good job with research.
> 
> Don


Thanks Don. I list the EZ-track because it fell into the category that I was specifically asking about... with the caveat that it was known to be of questionable quality. And that's sort of how it started, because I knew the bachmann turnouts were not good and wanted to know if there were other self-contained dcc-controlled turnouts. The answer to that is, not really.

On any future layout I do I will have a more permanent yet portable platform, so I will use flex track and associated components.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Tom_C said:


> In fairness the Bachmanns can be found for $40-60 depending on the model, but that doesn't change the quality.
> 
> I fixed the link to the bachmann turnout, just another mistake on my part.


My prices were all MSRP. That's the only way to make an apples-to-apples comparison. You can find the turnouts and stationary decoders for less than I mentioned too.


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## grpaine (Jun 18, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> ....... I personally don't know of anyone who uses their DCC controller to line turnouts. A few use manual ground throws, and the rest are pretty evenly split between fascia mounted controls (both manual and electronic) and dispatcher panels, which are almost exclusively electronic. .........


CTValleyRR, I saw a nice picture of your son’s central control panel in another thread (http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=116465&page=2 ). Years ago I did something very similar on an N scale layout and it worked great. 

But I’m curious about your comment above. With the advent of untethered (radio) DCC throttles which allow you to control the layout from anywhere in the room, why don’t more people control their powered switches with DCC? I’m just getting back into the hobby and have never operated a layout with DCC but it seems counterproductive to have the freedom to walk anywhere around your layout yet have to go back to a control panel to throw switches. What am I missing?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The trek to a turnout control panel when you
have a wireless DCC hand held could be annoying
on a large layout. Decentralized turnout control
panels can make that less a problem. Panels
located near the action points.

I have a hand held DCC wired controller but the
design of my layout puts all three turnout control
panels within easy reach of a central seating point.
There is a panel for each yard, and a third that
controls all turnouts in a center layout area.

I usually operate more than one train at a time
on my layout. Though I have the hand held and
the main controller, it does take a good deal of
button pushing to maintain order.

I have wondered at how one would handle even
more controller button pushing to throw turnouts.
If you have computer control in your plans I
can see using DCC stationary decoders for turnouts.
But it seems overkill otherwise and a major
demand to your fingering skills.


Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

grpaine said:


> CTValleyRR, I saw a nice picture of your son’s central control panel in another thread (http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=116465&page=2 ). Years ago I did something very similar on an N scale layout and it worked great.
> 
> But I’m curious about your comment above. With the advent of untethered (radio) DCC throttles which allow you to control the layout from anywhere in the room, why don’t more people control their powered switches with DCC? I’m just getting back into the hobby and have never operated a layout with DCC but it seems counterproductive to have the freedom to walk anywhere around your layout yet have to go back to a control panel to throw switches. What am I missing?


I certainly wouldn't claim to have all the answers, but I'll make a couple of observations. First of all, on both my son's layout and mine, when completed, the control panel is in a central location, and even if you're following your train, you're never more than a couple steps away from the panel.

There is also an operational side to this -- real trains don't throw the points from the cab of the loco. It's either done remotely by a dispatcher, or the train has to stop and put a crew member on the ground to manually throw it. So it's not unrealistic to either have to walk a bit to a control panel, or to have to ask someone to line the turnout for you.

On most bigger layouts that I'm aware of, ones where walking back to a central panel really would be a problem, one person is generally acting as the dispatcher, so part of his job would be to ensure the route is lined correctly. If not, the train crew would have to contact him and get it lined up, just like on the prototype. Those that the train crew has to throw usually have either a manual ground throw or a local actuator on the fascia.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The advantage to the stationary decoder is that you can have a panel to control the turnouts, you can control them via your walk around throttle (at least on my DT402D) and it shows up on the throttle as to the position of the turnout. If your using JMRI you might even be able to put a button on the PC throttle or wireless phone throttle that operates the turnout. So the stationary decoder just opens up more usefulness. They all work together so you don't need to pick one method.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

True. Tam Valley Depot offers a stationary ddcoder chip that you can plug into your Octo III to convert it to run from a DCC throttle.

The HOW isn't a mystery. More of the WHY.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

I bought a couple bachmann DCC controlled turnouts and they work for my needs on this layout. I can see that the quality could cause problems for some, but they work fine for my Tam valley shuttle set up on a small layout.

For information, I got a left and right turnout for about $30 each, so I was OK with the price to experiment.


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