# Using cardboard for landscapes



## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Hey guys, as some of you know I like to save money wherever I can. I'm running out of styrofoam for mountains and what not. I'm thinking about using cardboard, but not the way it is usually used. I'd stack the cardboard not weave it together. 

What do you think??


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

That would require a LOT of cardboard and probably be quite heavy.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Cardboard scenery base?*



Aminnich said:


> Hey guys, as some of you know I like to save money wherever I can. I'm running out of styrofoam for mountains and what not. I'm thinking about using cardboard, but not the way it is usually used. I'd stack the cardboard not weave it together.
> 
> What do you think??


Aminnich;

Two potential problems. 1) If it gets wet, when you apply plaster or dirt, grass, etc., the cardboard will soak up water and develop the nasty smell of stagnant water. It will also create mold, in time.
2) Cardboard burns.(though so does foam) It's a possible fire hazard.
Also cardboard, in bulk, is not all that light, in fact it can be fairly heavy. This might not mater if you don't plan on moving the railroad often.(ie. modules that have to be put away when not in use.)
If you're out of Styrofoam, you can probably get all you need for free. Check with any appliance, or electronics store. They probably throw out a lot of Styrofoam packing material. Granted this will most likely be the white, "bead board" type, which is not as good for scenery as the pink, or blue, "extruded",insulation board you may be using. Bead board would be OK for filler, under whatever you use for a top coating on your scenery. I've even demoed bead board as finish layer; painted, and then covered by real dirt, and ground foam grass. It's more delicate than extruded foam, but it works, and looks good. Sometimes, extruded foam is used for shaped packing material, especially for heavy items like washing machines. You might want to check around your area, and see what's available.

Traction Fan


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

I didn't think about those cons to using cardboard. 

Traction fan: I'm using the beaded foam for landscape (not my choice my parents picked up hide rectangle pieces cheap) I could go the the apploance places as you said, but those pieces are weird shapes and would be difficult to use. 

If I totally run off the styrofoam, I'll prob just do the weave method with the cardboard boxes I got.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Here is what I did for my hills and it is light and strong. I built a cardboard lattice / sub structure with inter woven thin strips. These only needed to be a skeleton for use during the building process. Then using old papers (news, flyers, kids homework) and white glue I made all the hills using paper mache. Used the non school glue type white glue so it does not disintegrate when wet. Came out strong in the end.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

That is what I'm seeing a lot of people doing, the paper mâché seems to work out really well. A future problem I have is moving a lot and the chance of that breaking is pretty high when it gets banged around. And from my experience moving (many times) model train stuff breaks the easiest.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You may be right about it's susceptibility to damage, but is this your "forever" layout, or just your "now" layout?

I'd just get some more extruded foam. I can get a 2x8 sheet of the 2" stuff for about $24. That doesn't sound like a budget buster to me.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Well considering my age this is my for now layout, once I'm old like you guys  haha, my layout will be bigger and more advanced. 

My feeling is that I don't want to dump a ton of money into this layout because a lot of what would be used can't be recycled for a later layout. Just my thoughts


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I use various materials, cardbord, foam, wadded paper as
the support structure for hills and mountains. If you move
a lot, you may want to build your hills etc. on a base that
will act as a support when you want to move it. I use the
1/4" paper covered foam from the Walmart Crafts section.
Cheap and sturdy.

Don


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Didn't we have an older member here once that used real rocks and sand for landscaping.....?


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> Didn't we have an older member here once that used real rocks and sand for landscaping.....?


I just..might.. be one of them, lol a 50lb bag for maybe six bucks... i also used aluminum windows screen for some landscaping, with foam support pillars and plaster cloth cover layer, sand added while still wet ...


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Scenery base, and top surface*



Aminnich said:


> I didn't think about those cons to using cardboard.
> 
> Traction fan: I'm using the beaded foam for landscape (not my choice my parents picked up hide rectangle pieces cheap) I could go the the apploance places as you said, but those pieces are weird shapes and would be difficult to use.
> 
> If I totally run off the styrofoam, I'll prob just do the weave method with the cardboard boxes I got.


 Aminnich;

You say you're using bead board. That's OK. It just won't be as resilient as the extruded foam.
If you run out of Styrofoam, you can buy it in 4'x8' sheets at Home Depot fairly cheap. Maybe $10 or less a sheet. They may also have smaller sheets for less, if you don't need much. That's a lot cheaper than the better, but more expensive, blue/pink stuff.
You also mentioned making a web of cardboard strips. That's usually used as a support structure for plaster soaked paper towels. I have used this method, and it works well. Is that what you had planned? You will certainly need some sort of top coat surface over the cardboard strips. As for paper mach'e it goes back to the early days of this hobby, and beyond. Artists have used it longer than model railroaders. I have not used it but it would have the same fire, and possibly weight, concerns as your original plan. I have heard it's not very strong either, but I don't know. 
 One technique I know works is using the cardboard strip web covered with paper towels 
soaked in Hydrocal plaster. This is called "hard shell scenery", and has been widely used for many years. I believe it basically replaced paper mache, as it was stronger, lighter, and tougher. Hydrocal is an exceptionally strong, lightweight plaster made by the US Gypsum Co.
You can buy small amounts, at ridiculously high prices, from some train shops. I bought mine by calling US Gypsum and asking for a local supplier. I had to buy a 50lb bag, but it was still way cheaper than the train store. Perhaps you can split the cost with another modeler. 
Whatever method you choose, good luck.

Traction Fan


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

I'd really like to just stick to styrofoam, cardboard is definitely a back up.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Bead board scenery tricks*



Aminnich said:


> I didn't think about those cons to using cardboard.
> 
> Traction fan: I'm using the beaded foam for landscape (not my choice my parents picked up hide rectangle pieces cheap) I could go the the apploance places as you said, but those pieces are weird shapes and would be difficult to use.
> 
> If I totally run off the styrofoam, I'll prob just do the weave method with the cardboard boxes I got.


 Aminnich;

When I did a club open house clinic on styrofoam scenery, I used bead board.
Two neat tricks you can do with the stuff.

1) Cut a steam/river trench in it and paint the exposed beads on the "stream bed" to represent rocks made smooth by the flowing watter. Use acrylic craft paints, and vary the colors of the "rocks". When completely dry, cover with a coat of "Mod Podge" (wal mart craft dept.) This goes on white but drys clear and shiny, and it won't dissolve the styrofoam.

2) Along the stream banks, you can use a low wattage soldering iron to melt "Furrows" from the top to the bottom of each bank. These, when painted, look just like areas of eroded soil formed when rain washed down into the stream. Do this styrofoam melting in a well ventilated area as styrofoam fumes are nasty, and unhealthy to breathe.
Try It, done right it looks great.

Traction Fan


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Their are a lot of different things you can do with foam, I just need the time to do it. I'm no where near doing streams and fine detail. I'm still figuring out track layout and where mountains and hills are going to go


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

My only real issue with the beadboard is that it can be hard to shape exactly the way you want it. Tends to tear in chunks. I have used lots of it for filler material, and covered with plaster cloth or Sculptamold, it's fine.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

That was the original thought, to use scultamold over the foam mountains, but I use a fine rasp on the foam and it looks pretty good.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You'll probably still want the Sculptamold, at least a thin layer. Beadboard is often too spongy to hold things like trees well.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

You always have great suggestions, THANKS!!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It is actually quite good for terrain - cut it in irregulator con tours and stack it to give a realistic not-quite-flat look to slightly rolling terrain maybe an inch or two high. It works really well for that. After tacking it, be sure to paint it with a primer or varnish, etc., so that water doesn't soak into it etc in subsequent steps. 

But go any higher, to make real hills or mountains, and all the the potential problems mentioned above are real. Every one of them can be handled, but by the time you do all that, cardboard is hardly cheap all around - it did not cost a lot of money but it soaks up time. And it is not that easy to cut piece by piece out and glue you eighteen inch mountain together 1/8 inch contour at a time. Franky its a pain. 

A much better way, used on several "mountains" on my layout, is to use the cardboard standing on end, cut to shape and interlaced across itself fo form a kind of egcrate of irregulator height, on top of which one staples/glues/attaches thing strips to form a shape for the mountain. I then apply newspaper strips, about 2" by a foot long, soaked in a 50/50 white glue/water mixture, over that, crisscrossing three or four layers. Let that dry and its light and solid enough. Prime it or Paint it with latex flat and then the usual flocking "grass" and scrubs or rock.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Thanks Lee, at this point I think I'm going to keep cardboard as a last resort for landscape, only because foam is easier and cardboard has to many cons


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Aminnich said:


> I didn't think about those cons to using cardboard.
> 
> Traction fan: I'm using the beaded foam for landscape (not my choice my parents picked up hide rectangle pieces cheap) I could go the the apploance places as you said, but those pieces are weird shapes and would be difficult to use.
> 
> If I totally run off the styrofoam, I'll prob just do the weave method with the cardboard boxes I got.


Dear Aminnich: With a hot glue gun, your lattice work can go fast. What I do is use my boxcutter to cut THIN, not thick strips. Thin strips are easier to take the "squareness" off the look of them; more natural-looking curves that are going to get covered by plaster-impregnated strips (Cheaper by far if you buy them from your local drug stores!). Hot glue the lattice work to your table; it goes fast. stuff something; newspaper, etc. inside the lattice work before covering with the wet pre-cut plaster strips and Bob's your uncle. PS: While the plaster strips are still wet, use your finger to kind of smooth out the plaster for a more natural-fill look to the scene...


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

He's probably figured it out by now. It's only been five years.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Yeah but it's probably worth some discussion on what if anyone has learned like me.

And I think for large non weight bearing structures in the background I favor the technique marklin of sweden has in his videos.

Basically some very simple framing, stuffed with even crunched into balls newspaper. Then cover with heavy paper towels or something similar...

Spray in glue, dry, adjust, possibly repeat... Paint, ground cover etc...


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

There always the old fashioned wadded up newspapers with masking tape over them and plaster cloth. Woodland Scenics makes the cloth in various sizes starting about $5 or $6.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Yes I think this is very similar to the paper towel over the same but with the diluted white glue spray to hold it. the argument put forward for this slightly different approach is that can be modified somewhat after its set because its somewhat flexible. having done this in a small scale, i can attest to this. i'm not saying the other approaches are bad -- i just think for a large background item that doesnt need to hold anything up much, it's not a bad approach from my limited use of it. and its certainly cheap enough. i have also used the aluminum over some framework as well and like it -- but if you need to modify, you have to cut through the screen and this produces some sharp edges. the screen though is strong, so there's that and a little flexible.

the foam and other things works well for other items. in the markline of sweden vids, he used quite a bit of foam and then after getting the shape of interest will coat with what looks to be something like joint compound -- sometimes very thing other times a bit thicker depending on what he's doing. i'm sure other similar compound would work. texturing it first, paint, post texture .. are all possible. ground cover, static grass, trees and other features come last.

it all seems to work well enough and looks good in a vid.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Aminnich said:


> Hey guys, as some of you know I like to save money wherever I can. I'm running out of styrofoam for mountains and what not. I'm thinking about using cardboard, but not the way it is usually used. I'd stack the cardboard not weave it together.
> 
> What do you think??


It will work. You can stack the card board in layers. Most mountains taper toward a point at the top. You can cut the inner part of the lower levels out and use that farther up the mountain. This hollows out the mountain so it is lighter weight and also saves on needing alot of cardboard.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I made a kind of foam mountain like that but so much cutting, so much foam "whittles" ... I decided it wasn't that great of an idea....


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## Dave NYC 1962 (Oct 17, 2020)

Lee Willis said:


> It will work. You can stack the card board in layers. Most mountains taper toward a point at the top. You can cut the inner part of the lower levels out and use that farther up the mountain. This hollows out the mountain so it is lighter weight and also saves on needing alot of cardboard.


If your wife orders from Amazon like mine, you have plenty of cardboard available!


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

The problem with the layer by layer approach regardless of materials is that unless you want visible layers, you'll have to fill them in with something. So I think using cardboard boxes (or even foam boxes) to make the overall shape, then balling up newpapers and holding that in place to fill out the gaps. And then covering that with either paper towels (or some thin paper) sprayed with the watery glue mixture, or the plaster of paris strips makes a lot of sense to make the overall form. I'm sure there are other materials that can be used besides the ones i just listed. for example i could see using aluminum screen -- or that wood land scenic "crinkly" paper... just scrunch it up and spread it out -- if you want a more jagged appearance. I'm sure there's lots of similar approaches with various materials tried over the years.


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

OMG....we joke in our house that Mom is taking ANOTHER trip up the "Amazon"....especially with black Friday and Christmas Season in Tow!!


Dave NYC 1962 said:


> If your wife orders from Amazon like mine, you have plenty of cardboard available!


Dave we joke that my wife is taking ANOTHER trip up the Amazon....she spends both literally and figuratively way too much time there...but we all have our favorite's...Model Trains and Shopping  🤣 🤣


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