# HO layout or playing table - suggestions needed



## deyneko

Hi
I newbie here and this is my first message 
I plan to do a HO layout for playing with my son I’d say “playing table”. About year ago I’ve built my first layout (HO, 120x200cm, analog), see picture.



Also we always use Mega blocks or Lego constructor in the game on this table. I.e. we loading “building materials” in one point and transport it to another point where building something etc.

Our old layout is not more enough  and I want to create new one with DCC, bigger little bit and little bit complicated. According my humble experience better width of the table for us is about 1 meter because usually we use only periphery for building something but not center. So in the center looks like “dead zone”. Of course it should be as long as possible but I limited by 3 meters. And this table must be able to fold or disassemble.
For the layout I plan to use Atlas, 18” radius (according width of the table) and #4 turnouts. It will be covered by Woodland scenics green grass vinyl mat. Minimally we need follows:
-	At least one closed route (oval or 8)
-	Yard
-	Containers terminal (we have container crane)
-	A place for small passenger station
-	Traffic lights (dwarfs)
-	Turntable with engine house
Below you can see my draft (two section layout)… It is only draft and not final version
*Any suggestions are welcome!*​


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## CTValleyRR

Bonjour and bienvenue! And now I'll switch to English, because while I speak (conversational) French rather well, I don't write it worth a damn.

That looks like a good start on your layout. I can't really tell the dimensions on your plan, but 3 meter width is going to be too much. Even at the low height for your son, you will only be able to reach in about a meter from each side (assuming you have access on all 4 sides). Since you appear to have used 18" curves there, I'm guessing the width is only about a meter, which will be fine. 

I have three other comments which may help. First of all, I think you are wiser to build a layout in modules that can be disassembled rather than trying to deal with a fold-up version. Just be aware that you will need to have some way to remove the tracks that cross the gap, and reliably power them when they are installed. This won't be hard on the straight track, but the figure 8 will be tricky.

Secondly, the way you have drawn the figure 8, it contains a reversing loop, which will require special (though not particularly difficult) wiring and isolation to make it work. 
When the time comes for building it, many people here can guide you through the process (just beware that if you DON'T wire it properly, the layout won't operate).

Finally, real container terminals generally operate on a "pull through" basis -- that is, the train heads in one side, gets loaded, and pulls out the opposite side without reversing. This speeds operations in a real terminal. You could achieve this by adding a turnout on the right side (which would require a corresponding extension of the left side and the figure 8 crossings) and putting your container terminal track right up to it. Even more realistic would be two or more tracks, giving you the opportunity to swap containers between trains, but you may not be able to fit that in.

Anyway, you're off to a good start in the Worlds Greatest Hobby. Enjoy!


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## DonR

If you go to a folding table you will want to use a piano hinge
for stability and you'll need to use 'removable' track sections
where they cross the 'fold'. These would be take out when
you fold, and placed back in when you set up again. You might
need to have wiring the by passes the hinged area. 

As CTvalley pointed out you have a reverse loop, as a matter of fact you
have three. Well, 4 if you count the
turntable, but those usually include polarity controls.

Nothing wrong with that, but you would need 3 DCC reverse
loop controllers to run your trains. Digitrax makes a 4 unit device that
also works as reverse loop controllers. This would be ideal for your
3 loops. There are several on Ebay now in the $60 range.
The 4th unit could be used on the turntable if the one
you get needs it.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=digitrax+pm42

You would want insulated joiners to isolate the two top tracks
connecting the ends of the 'figure eight'.
You would also want insulated joiners to isolate the one bottom
track connecting also the ends of the 'figure eight'. 

All of the isolated sections are fairly short so if you have
lighted passenger cars keep the train no longer than the
shortest 'isolated section'. The reason for this is how
the PM 42s operate. When a loco spans the insulated joiners
there is a short circuit. The PM 42 very quickly reverses the
track phase (polarity) to match the main sections and the loco moves
smoothly through without pause or blink of light. Then when
it reaches the other end the wheels again cause a short
again triggering the PM 42 to reverse phase again. Lighted
passenger cars and some metal wheel freight cars crossing
the first insulated joint at the same time the loco crosses the
2nd one would cause a short the PM 42 cannot overcome.

The wiring for this is very simple. The input to the PM 42 is
comes from your DCC track buss. You would feed each isolated
section with the output from 3 of the 4 units. That's it, and
the operation is totally automatic. You would follow the
directions as to wiring for the turntable and roundhouse tracks.

The yard would normally be part of the bottom isolated
section, but it also could be fed by the main DCC bus
after you use insulated joiners where it connects to
the bottom turnout. No special wiring or insulated
joiners needed for the crossing.

Otherwise, you have a very nice layout that offers good continuous
running and also switching.

With 18" curves you should limit your locos to 4 axle diesels or
very small steamers.

Don


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## deyneko

CTValleyRR said:


> but 3 meter width is going to be too much. Even at the low height for your son, you will only be able to reach in about a meter from each side (assuming you have access on all 4 sides). Since you appear to have used 18" curves there, I'm guessing the width is only about a meter, which will be fine.


Bonjour CTValleyRR,
No of course I meant 3m length and 1m width. I'd prefer length only 2.5m I think there will be not enough space. On the other hand longer layout seems more realistic for example in case transport something from "one corner to another".



CTValleyRR said:


> ...the train heads in one side, gets loaded, and pulls out the opposite side without reversing. ...


After several hours playing with "puzzles" I did version 2 (see pic)








Problem is that it is not enough place to create containers terminal close to real one. I hope it will be enough place for engine to go another line (I marked it in red). Unfortunately it will be place only for about one platform with containers (marked in green).




DonR said:


> If you go to a folding table you will want to use a piano hinge for stability and you'll need to use 'removable' track sections where they cross the 'fold'.


Hi Don,
Do you mean like on the picture below








*Can I avoid to use insertion tracks if I will use a hinge? Is there not enough precision?* I marked all crossing path between section on my first picture in black, so I expect problems with 4 tracks in the middle.



DonR said:


> ... you would need 3 DCC reverse loop controllers to run your trains. Digitrax makes a 4 unit device that also works as reverse loop controllers. This would be ideal for your 3 loops.


I'm already really scared with DCC wiring especially for reverse loops. Of course I heard about it but never entered into details 
I will step by step, slowly read about this and will see pictures, schemes etc because at present time it is kind of "Chinese script" for me... I understand DC but here AC as I understood etc...


DonR said:


> With 18" curves you should limit your locos to 4 axle diesels or very small steamers.
> Don


Yes, unfortunately I think that I have no big choice... may be in the future I will create another project with 22". Actually it is not question for layout but I thinking which 4 axle diesel to buy in the future, my dreams mostly connected with prices  ... *Which is like "workhouse" in Canada or USA?*

Actually I have million questions...
*For example which thickness I need minimally?* I have no idea about size of different electronic devices/ controllers etc. In my DC layout I used simple switch machines on the surface + snap controllers for traffic lights. By the way *which switches I need to use with the turnouts* and *how traffic lights will be controlled?*

P.S. I found that exact 1m of width is not enough in case a train will derail and for roads so width will be at least 1m and 7cm.


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## DonR

Yes, the pictured removable track sections would, to me,
be the easiest to accomodate the fold. Those in the pics appear to be
used where two club modules abut. You have the 'fold' happening
right through 7 tracks. That is going to present some very
testy alignments. I would go with the removables, but make them
more attractive than shown in the pic.


DCC track is live at all times with a modified AC that powers
the locos thru on board decoders. Lights don't dim or
go off when you slow or stop a loco. It also carries the digital
information the decoders use to make the locos go, turn on and
off lights and, if you have it, control sound. That all sounds complex
but operation is as simple as using your TV remote. Press a button
for loco A. Move the speed control it goes and keeps going til you
stop it. Then push button for loco B, move the speed control and
you have both going, maybe in different directions because you
have those reverse loops that let you do that.

DCC wiring is way more simple than DC. There are no complicated
switches for power-pack control, and the reverse loop wiring
is just as simple. You have a 2 wire track buss that is fed modified AC
by the DCC controller. You have drops from the track connected to
that. The AR 1 is also fed by the 2 wire track buss. Then each of the 3 (or 4)
isolated sections gets a 2 wire track drop that goes to the output of
a unit on the AR 1. That's all there is to it. It's a fully automatic, hidden
under the table unit you never need work with again. Like DC, you
must maintain phasing (polarity), but you know how to do that.

Sometimes folks worry about DCC being complex after
they read some of the high tech jargon used by those with very large
layouts or a club. They need it, most of us don't.

Don


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## CTValleyRR

deyneko said:


> Bonjour CTValleyRR,
> No of course I meant 3m length and 1m width. I'd prefer length only 2.5m I think there will be not enough space. On the other hand longer layout seems more realistic for example in case transport something from "one corner to another".


All else being equal, the more space you can devote to it would be better. 


deyneko said:


> After several hours playing with "puzzles" I did version 2 (see pic)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is that it is not enough place to create containers terminal close to real one. I hope it will be enough place for engine to go another line (I marked it in red). Unfortunately it will be place only for about one platform with containers (marked in green).


Actually, that wasn't really what I was thinking. Leave the roundhouse where it was, and just insert a turnout into the center of the curve on the right side. This should (hopefully) allow you to connect that to your current container terminal track. Because the turnout would lengthen the right side, the other sides would have to be lengthened by a corresponding amount.



deyneko said:


> I'm already really scared with DCC wiring especially for reverse loops. Of course I heard about it but never entered into details
> I will step by step, slowly read about this and will see pictures, schemes etc because at present time it is kind of "Chinese script" for me... I understand DC but here AC as I understood etc...


Don't be. Believe it or not, it is easier than wiring this same set up for DC. However, that was why I didn't get into the details just yet. We will ease you into this.



deyneko said:


> Yes, unfortunately I think that I have no big choice... may be in the future I will create another project with 22". Actually it is not question for layout but I thinking which 4 axle diesel to buy in the future, my dreams mostly connected with prices  ... *Which is like "workhouse" in Canada or USA?*
> 
> Actually I have million questions...
> *For example which thickness I need minimally?* I have no idea about size of different electronic devices/ controllers etc. In my DC layout I used simple switch machines on the surface + snap controllers for traffic lights. By the way *which switches I need to use with the turnouts* and *how traffic lights will be controlled?*


Hmmm. There is a lot in there to tackle at once. I'm not familiar with "workhouse" -- maybe you mean Enginehouse or Roundhouse? Or perhaps one of your countrymen can clear that one up. As you probably guessed, how much you pay for a loco will determine how detailed and realistic it is. This doesn't apply to operating: the cheap engines generally run almost as well as the very expensive ones (sometimes better: my absolute best puller is a Walthers Trainman FA1 that cost me $40 US).

For the controllers, and signals (traffic lights), you do have several options. There is no reason why you can't use exactly the same setup at least initially. You can improve things as your skills and comfort with the system improve. We have an expression down here: "You can't eat an elephant in one bite." Get trains up and running on a nice layout first, then you can figure out how to remotely control turnouts, wire signals, and so forth. While it is easier to install switch machines as you install track, it isn't essential.

Take it slow, and be patient. There is lots of help here -- and we'll try not to overwhelm you.


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## deyneko

CTValleyRR said:


> ... just insert a turnout into the center of the curve on the right side.


Do you mean to insert end of the containers terminal into right side of "8" (I marked it read, see pic)?








[/QUOTE]



CTValleyRR said:


> I'm not familiar with "workhouse" --


Oh sorry... it my mistake I meant "workhorse" i.e. most widely used 4 axle engine in Canada or USA.


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## deyneko

*Project is updated!*​
I updated my project (see picture below):








So as you see I removed big yard and create small "mini-yard" with just two lines. Lower line capacity about 5 cars, upper about 3 but in contrast it more functionally because previous yard was fully "blind". In present mini-yard I can enter one side then engine can exit without problem.

Containers terminal still blind but train can enter by lower line leave about two platform (a crane will work with them) and then engine can exit by upper line.

The layout base consist two section but sections may be not same to avoid connection at the 60 degree cross. I not familiar may be I can use the 60 deg cross as removable part...
I did not decided yet will it fold or just disassemble.

Very important to me know thickness of the layout! No idea which devices I'll force to use for DCC. Of course as thin as possible is better for me.

Same question with switch machines... I think use switch machines which installed under layout but not on surface (as I used before). I used Atlas simple switch machines but I really don't liked them - their noise looks like short-circuit. And snap switches for traffic lights don't normally work with small electricity power.
Which switch machines do you using? I'll install it later but anyway I need to know aprox. what I will use.

Also I marked in green "building areas" by analysis of current games and expected dead zone may be I can add something other (by one blind line from left 8 figure. If you have an idea please tell me.


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## RT_Coker

If you are looking for a simpler solution, this layout can be done with just one “DCC reverse loop controller”. The “insulated joiners” are denoted by the Red-lines. The top two “insulated joiners” can be move toward the cross-over to suit your purposes. Operationally only one of the “insulated joiners” should have a power-unit across it at the same time. 
Keep-It-Simple-Bob


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## DonR

Yes, I agree with Bob. The move of the yard to the lower area complicated
the reverse controller problem. Each of the yard tracks would have been
a 'loop'.

By changing the isolated section to the crossing tracks as Bob has suggested
would be much simpler. There is a problem though.

My concern is that there are 4 paths into the isolated section making
likelyhood that two trains would try to use it at the same time. That
would result in a short circuit.

In spite of the simplicity, though,
I think it would would be better to again move the yard tracks
to the interior so they are not creating 'loops' and go back to my previous 
solution to your reverse loops.

Don


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## CTValleyRR

deyneko said:


> Do you mean to insert end of the containers terminal into right side of "8" (I marked it read, see pic)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sorry... it my mistake I meant "workhorse" i.e. most widely used 4 axle engine in Canada or USA.


Yes, I was thinking that if you put a turnout between the two red pieces, you could connect the container tracks across the loop.

The "workhorse" you refer to could be any of a dozen locos, depending on what era you choose to model. My advice? Since you're not going for any serious realism, is get one that you think looks cool. Keep it to 4 axles so you don't have any operating issues.


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## CTValleyRR

I agree with Don and Bob. Go with the plan you had in post #4.

You seem very concerned with the thickness of your layout. Don't be. Under the table machines will work through anything up to about 7.6cm. I have made layouts with plywood, plywood with foam insulation boards on top, and foam insulation board on L girder joists. The last is my preferred method. It's strong and light, and if you place joists every 50 cm or so, it will be strong enough for kids to crawl on.

As far as what machine, Tortoise by Circuitron, or servos from Tam Valley Depot would be my recommendation. Others swear by Peco. All of them work fine. Prepare to pay about S15 US per turnout.


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## CTValleyRR

And one other piece of advice. While I know you have a boy who is probably very eager to get his upgrade, take your time, have fun (and involve him in the building process), and above all, don't be afraid to make a mistake. Remember, no time, effort, or expense is wasted if you use the experience wisely.


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## RT_Coker

If you are looking for a simpler solution, this “#4 post” layout can also be done with just one “DCC reverse loop controller”. The “insulated joiners” are denoted by the Red-lines. Operationally only one of the “insulated joiners” should have a power-unit across it at the same time. 
Keep-It-Simple-Bob


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## deyneko

CTValleyRR said:


> I agree with Don and Bob. Go with the plan you had in post #4.





RT_Coker said:


> If you are looking for a simpler solution, this “#4 post” layout can also be done with just one “DCC reverse loop controller”.


OK. I corrected little bit my project (I marked isolation by red short lines):











CTValleyRR said:


> You seem very concerned with the thickness of your layout.


Yes I really concerned. At the first I have not lot of space to keep it when it is disassembled or folded and second I will build a frame with plywood on top before working with tracks etc. I'd like that all things (switch machines etc) will be defended in the future when I install them. But to rebuild the frame will be very difficult.



CTValleyRR said:


> ... plywood with foam insulation boards on top, and foam insulation board on L girder joists. The last is my preferred method.


Why you use plywood with *foam insulation boards* not just plywood? Can you show me any pictures of it?



CTValleyRR said:


> As far as what machine, Tortoise by Circuitron, or servos from Tam Valley Depot would be my recommendation. Others swear by Peco. All of them work fine. Prepare to pay about S15 US per turnout.


Such information is very very important for me because I'm not familiar with switch machines, switches, controllers etc.

Actually I done my first project (picture in first post) with 18" curves and 15" switches because I didn't know anything about it. Hmm but 4 axes engine and 6 axes coach running without problems.


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## DonR

I have a great deal of respect for Bob. He has shown us that he knows
DCC circuitry very well. However, on this layout, I have to
disagree. While making the center X of the 'figure eight' as
the one reverse loop, simplifies the wiring, the isolated
section has 4 entry paths. If more than one
train is run on this layout there will be constant short circuits
due to two locos crossing insulated joiners at the same time.

Don


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## RT_Coker

Don,
The phase ?“constant”? short circuits sounds a bit strong to me.

In my experience a DCC short (assuming the typical DCC controller with its “short-protection”) is preferable to a collision at the cross-over. Note that all 4 reverse-loop entrances/exits are to/from the crossover track section and that this layout is also for the “kids”.
Bob


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## CTValleyRR

So, let's go back to the original purpose of the layout for a minute. I use foam insulating panels because they are easy to carve into terrain, especially if you want water features below the level of your track. Foam on plywood gives you something to carve into. If you use L-girder joists, the foam is strong enough without the plywood. My layout has hills, streams, rivers, even a bit of ocean, all of which lie below the level of the track, thus foam is necessary.

I believe you are thinking of a perfectly flat table, in which case you do not need to worry about terrain. My primary thought for you is going to be weight. I need help to maneuver a 4x8 sheet of plywood around. I can easily lift a 2x8 foam panel with one hand. Joists and foam panels will weigh about 1/3 as much as plywood.

Really, though, this layout is not going to disappear. Whether you use a frame and plywood, girders and foam, etc. it's going to be more than 5cm in thickness, but probably less than 10. Folded or propped up against a wall, it's going to be fairly thin in proportion to the room size, no matter what.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems like anything on the top of the layout, except the track, is going to be taken off when the layout is stored. Switch machines will generally protrude about 3cm from the bottom; either your frame or the joists will be sufficient to protect them.

Three things you might want to do to help your knowledge of the hobby: purchase an issue or two of Model Railroader magazine. Look at the advertising, too. Download a couple of issues of Model Railroad Hobbyist from the internet and read them; again, the advertising is also useful. As far as I know, these two publications are only available in English. You can also either visit the website of William K. Walthers Co., (www.walthers.com) or pick up a copy of their Reference Book (the size of a small city's phone directory). Walthers is the largest distributor of model railroad supplies in North America, and you will get thousands of ideas just from seeing what is available.


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## DonR

Bob 

If there's only going to be one train running then your scheme would
work fine.

But if 2 trains are running, likely they'll be chasing each other on the
figure 8. Usually 2 trains on a layout will be at opposite ends and
running approximately the same speed. So the space between them
stays nearly constant. 

That being the case, when train 1 crosses INTO the 'X' it flips the
reverse controller and is likely going to span the EXIT about the
time that train 2 crosses INTO the 'X' and again trips the reverse
controller...but wait train 1 loco is also tripping it. That is where
the short occurs. Follow 2 trains around the layout and you'll
see what I mean.

Don


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## RT_Coker

deyneko,
I should have added that you can move the “insulated joiners” in toward the cross-over to fit your particular way(s) of operating your trains. 
Bob


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## deyneko

Hi,
After your debate... I've made decision to remove reverse loops. So I think to create high functionally layout - "playing table" but in same time as simple as possible.

Below my last variant of the layout:












CTValleyRR said:


> Three things you might want to do to help your knowledge of the hobby: purchase an issue or two of Model Railroader magazine. Look at the advertising, too.


Yea... in an advertisement all always is perfect


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## DonR

I sure am sorry we caused you to move away from your original layout.
I thought it had enjoyable running features.

The current drawing shows another very interesting layout. Lots of yard
tracks for switching. Any additional spurs you could add would
make your switching sessions more interesting.

Don


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## CTValleyRR

I directed your attention to the advertising because it's a good way to see what is available. Of course, once you know that, you have to do some research to see whether it lives up to its claims.


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## deyneko

DonR said:


> I sure am sorry we caused you to move away from your original layout.


No, thank you all for the warning about reverse loop. I just forget about this. And I think that this variant will be may be better because I have more space for spurs etc. 
My goal #1 is functional layout for game. It's mean that "we need to transport this, transport that, uploading in one place and bring to another. So I need lot of different "services" etc.
Additionally I'd like to use DCC because we can use more than 1 train. So I plan to use at least 2 trains. For example one train is going but another is waiting on a siding line (for passing other train) etc.


CTValleyRR said:


> I directed your attention to the advertising because it's a good way to see what is available. Of course, once you know that, you have to do some research to see whether it lives up to its claims.


Actually I have several magazines Model railroader. It is very interesting and nice magazine but don't forget that it is commercial thing... For example I make traffic lights by myself but in local store they offer me to buy it. And I sure that lot of person here make lot of such things by themselves, I sure... So I came here to this forum to receive personal opinions and experience. I remember what did you say about engines and such things VERY important for me particularly I limited in budget.

I have another question regarding space between tracks after turnouts. I have no idea which space I need to left there (see picture below). Do I need to use 1" insertions between turnouts (see the pic):


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## DonR

Here is a lot of discussion of track spacing. Might
find what you want here.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/194674.aspx

Don


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## CTValleyRR

deyneko said:


> Actually I have several magazines Model railroader. It is very interesting and nice magazine but don't forget that it is commercial thing... For example I make traffic lights by myself but in local store they offer me to buy it. And I sure that lot of person here make lot of such things by themselves, I sure... So I came here to this forum to receive personal opinions and experience. I remember what did you say about engines and such things VERY important for me particularly I limited in budget.
> 
> I have another question regarding space between tracks after turnouts. I have no idea which space I need to left there (see picture below). Do I need to use 1" insertions between turnouts (see the pic):


We may be losing something in the translation here. I'm not suggesting that you go buy anything. Just about everything you want on your layout can be scratchbuilt (built by the model railroader) if you so desire, and can find the parts. It's ALWAYS about the tradeoff between buy and build, or cost and time. However, you have made comments to suggest that you don't know what's available, and what better way to find out what's available than to research the companies and products? I buy a paper Walthers catalog every single year (at $16 US), just because I like to see everything that is available (with a couple of exceptions). I'm on a limited budget too, but I keep a list of what I want, and buy it when I can afford it. 

For track spacing, Don's link has the link to the NMRA site, which will give you the standards. Whether you NEED to do something is a matter of what you're willing to risk. The 1" straight segments between turnouts are not essential, but the more straight track you have between turnouts, especially ones that go in opposite directions, the better your trains will run. Ideally (space permitting), a loco or car should be fully on a piece of straight track before it starts to turn again, but most of us don't have that kind of space available. Generally, the longer your equipment, the more straight track you need between turnouts.


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## deyneko

DonR said:


> Here is a lot of discussion of track spacing. Might
> find what you want here.





CTValleyRR said:


> ...Don's link has the link to the NMRA site, which will give you the standards. Whether you NEED to do something is a matter of what you're willing to risk. The 1" straight segments between turnouts are not essential


At the first thank you Don for the link... 

Today I did some experiments and THEN reproduced it in program SCARM. Just placed two parallel straight tracks and results you can see on the picture below:








As you see cars will touch each other when space ~1.46"! Then ballasts will touch each other when space 1.83". When we do not use the insertion after an turnout space will be 1.78" so ballasts will intersect each other (I will use separated ballasts). BTW if you will see at the "composition" of turnouts at the bottom of the picture you see that we need ~0.75 insertion to match tracks.
After this I concluded that I need use minimum insertion 0.75 but found that 1" easily to buy. 
Don't forget we're speaking about Atlas HO-100 turnouts #4.


Other question.
*Don* occasionally I found on this forum that you use your "self invented" connection traffic lights with turnouts. Could you draw a scheme or give me picture of that.


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## CTValleyRR

I think the language barrier got us again. If you want to build your track to NMRA standards, which is an good idea, for the reasons you discovered, then you need to achieve the recommended separation between tracks. That means your turnouts may need additional pieces separating them to achieve that distance, depending on the make and model of your turnouts. But you do not need to insert that one inch piece next to every turnout on your layout.


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## DonR

deyneko said:


> At the first thank you Don for the link...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other question.
> *Don* occasionally I found on this forum that you use your "self invented" connection traffic lights with turnouts. Could you draw a scheme or give me picture of that.


I'm not certain of the term 'traffic lights' related to turnouts but I do have
a 2 transistor circuit that takes a feed from the panel point position LED indicators
on one of my main tracks that has 4 turnouts in it. A bridge type
block signal with a red/green LED is green as long as the points of all
turnouts are set for a clear path. If any one is set to 'divert' the LED
will show red. If that is what you want, I'll try to find the circuit. It's
here on the Forum. 

Also, in my yards, I use a diode matrix that makes possible a one button
push to set all turnouts for a clear path to each yard track. That makes
switching session a lot easier. It is much easier to wire than it sounds.
It uses only a good number of diodes and a Capacitor Discharge Unit.

Don


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## CTValleyRR

I believe when he says traffic lights, he is referring to signals. The word "signau" in French, which ironically is very close to our word "signal", is often translated as "traffic light". Granted, I speak the Walloon dialect of French, which is spoken in Belgium, whereas he speaks the French Canadian dialect, but I'll put money on that one.


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## deyneko

Yes, my English is not perfect... but according my knowledge below in the picture below you can see dwarf traffic light. 









On my old layout I have 4 traffic lights which are controlled by Atlas snap relays. But I don't like it. So what kind of control the traffic lights you can suggest me?


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## CTValleyRR

Definitely NOT picking on your English. Trust me, I know how hard a second language can be.

However, at least in American English, traffic lights control automobiles exclusively (hence Don's confusion). The similar lights that regulate train movements are called signals.


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## DonR

There are switches with built in electronics that can be ordered
for either twin coil solenoid or Tortoise type turnout motors. These
switches in addition to throwing the points will control the LEDs
in your Dwarf Signals and/or panel board.

Here is the link to them:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM

And, as I mentioned, if you want any of your drawfs
to show Green when ALL turnouts in a path are
set for clear, and red if ANY one of them
is set to divert, I have a 2 transistor circuit that you
could use.

Don


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## deyneko

Hi all,
I finished this project. Thank you all for your suggestions. Sorry, I didn't have time to write.

I posted 2 photos HERE.

And you can see a video on my site - HERE.


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## DonR

I noticed in your excellent video that when one
of your kids operated a turnout that a trackside
signal changed. Did you use the 751D turnout
motor control switches?

Don


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## deyneko

DonR said:


> Did you use the 751D turnout
> motor control switches?


No, I used Atlas deluxe under table switch machines (#0066) and snap relays (# 0200) with under table switch machines (#0065). They are simple and cheap.


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## Lemonhawk

This is a really nice layout! Seems to have a lot of functionality with places to go and things to do, yet its all in a fold up table a little smaller than a ping pong table. It just looks like it fun to operate:appl:


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## sliderule01

That is excellent and well done - and explained the purpose without language. I am very impressed.


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## lazz

Hi, after reading the whole thread i did not see any dimensions listed. I am really interested in this layout. I would like to know the dimensions of this layout if possible.


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## CTValleyRR

Unfortunately, this thread is almost a year and a half old, and neither of the guys posting track plans has been around for a while.

It looks like 5'x10', with 18" radius curves and either Atlas Snap Switches or #4 turnouts.

If you like it, though, use it for inspiration and lay out your own version, either on graph paper or using track planning software (my personal favorite is AnyRail, but there are lots of choices).


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