# Where the heck should I start!?!?



## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Hey guys, 

I finished rebuilding the bench work today, all is good. I also built the area for the hidden yard, it is not attached yet, but that will allow me to move it to where if fit best. 

Anyway, Now im not just waiting to see what the fat man in the red suit brings on friday, hopefully some buildings and TVD stuff. I am having trouble laying my track without having the buildings, so im just going to wait. 

Here is my question though.. Where should I start laying the track. I know that sounds ridiculous, but im wondering if the most difficult area or most conjested area should be the starting point.

Hope you allhave a great Christmas and happy new year!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I'd draw a full size plan of the layout,then spread the said plan on the benchwork,then place my buildings and accessories loosely on top the plan then move them around until I find what I like best.and likely modify the plan before even installing the first track.

There's another way...you do...then re-do...then re-do again...that's fun too though.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

The second way is how I have been doing it, and I can't seem to do it that way. And I tried scarm but I'm not good at that either


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

SCARM is nice program to use. Just do trial and error then you will get hang of it. 3D feature is nice to see the layout!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Maybe you could do some trial and error with aforethought. Start by creating
your mainline, likely something that will give you continuous running. If you
are going to use DCC plan on a single track main that basically follows the
edge of your benchwork. Then start looking where you can build a yard, and
where you can put industrial sidings. That's when you would be concerned
with space between tracks for the buildings. You can have 2 or 3 industrial
buildings on one spur with a road on the other side of them. A tip to place
them in an odd location: The roads don't have to connect to each other on
the layout...they intersect at an imaginary point off the bench.

Cut out strips of track size paper strips (maybe the large Christmas wrappings
that would otherwise be tossed out. Tape them down and See what comes
of it.

Don


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Great idea! Ill start by laying out the main line, then start throwing in some turnouts for spurs. Thanks!!!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Aminnich said:


> Great idea! Ill start by laying out the main line, then start throwing in some turnouts for spurs. Thanks!!!


That's what I would do. Full sized printouts are nothing more than a waste of paper, IMO. By the time you've struggled to get the printouts laid out just so, you could have your track laid. It's easy enough to work from a scale drawing. You do have at least a sketch of your track plan, right?

Don't wait for structures or TVD stuff to start laying track. Prep for the servos by boring a 3/8" diameter hole under the throwbar of each of your turnouts. Find the footprint of your structures if you can (Walthers often has it, ro the manufacturer's website might, too), and cut a template out of a cereal box or other stiff cardboard as a placeholder until you can get the real structure involved. If you don't know the exact dimensions, guess, leaving some room to fudge later, and if you have to tweak your trackplan a bit, or modify the structure, so be it.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

I have a composition book filled with track layout drawings, but they never look great once they are on the table. 

I got a simple single main line done with a few turnouts. Right now im figuring out how and where I want to start the elevation. Correct me if im wrong, but a train needs about 3" of clearance? right now i have about 8' for the elevation change for 3" but ill need to add about 4 more feet. 

I have the turnouts for going into the hidden yard placed and one set of track for the yard done, but ill finish that last


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Here are the HO vertical clearance standards, and
some other important information.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...dout.pdf/RK=0/RS=rEmj3x5nPxIVxoiNCeV_Ge2cbR8-

Don


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Here is a quick pic of what i got done today, along with last minute shopping and wrapping.

Anyway... The wood block farthest to the right is 3.5 inches and the rest of the blocks are at a 2% grade. The distance is crazy, by the time the train gets to the top, it has to come right back down. The whole idea was to put the coal mine and what not on the elevated section. But im not sure that will work now. 








[/url]IMG_0814 

What do you guys think, I could make it a 2.5 or 2.75 percent grade or... i dont know


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Aminnich said:


> What do you guys think, I could make it a 2.5 or 2.75 percent grade or... i dont know


Welcome to Rule #2 of model railroading (at least MY rule #2) -- You never have enough space to do what you really want to do. (I assume that you are familiar with the universal Rule #1 -- It's your railroad, you can do whatever you want.)

You can do higher grades if you want, but the higher the grades, the shorter the trains will need to be to climb those grades.

One possibility is to eliminate the crossover, and keep a more shallow incline into your coal mine. You could use some mountain scenery behind the mine track to give the illusion of more height -- and some scenery in front font of the mine track to "distance" it from the rest of your layout. Real mountain railroads usually follow rivers or go through low mountain passes, so you would have more prototypical mountain railroad.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Another way to solve your problem, is to raise your base height (of most of your track) by about 2 inches. Then you could have the mine track climb about 2", and have the other track drop about 1.5 to 2" as it approaches the crossover. This distributes the grade over more distance, so you don't need as steep a grade.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

What MtRR said is what I did. My crossovers are at 1.5 inches and I went up 1.5 for my upper track and down 1.5 for the lower. Saves a lot of space for grade changes. 

Here is how it worked out. 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=366321&postcount=141

And here. The PA PB locos are about half way down to base level and the end of the two 180° turns are just about 3 inches above base level.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=380745&postcount=146


Magic


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Thanks guys! MTRR, before I restarted for the 100th time I did have a 4% grade which worked but it just didn't look right. 

As for the making everything higher, I'm not sure I want to do that, because then it will look at a crater for most of the layout, having the inside track 1.5" lower and the outside track 2.5" higher. I mean it is a good idea but I'm not sure that I will do it, only because of my small layout size and not having much space to begin with


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

if any of the lower level is going to be hid in a mountain, run your grade along side till u get elevation high enough to cross over. 
reverse loop to come back down same grade.:dunno:
possible thought, don't know if it will help you.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Your going to have a nice layout when you figure out where to lay the track.

Can you walk around the whole table?
Is that one piece of foam board? 4" thick? 
It's looks more then 2" thick in the pictures, just wondering.
Or is it 2, 2" pieces joined together?

Or is it just 2" thick foam board?


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

The layout consists of 2 4x8 with 2 2" foam boards on top, with an additional hidden yard that you can see in the pic to the right.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Aminnich said:


> The layout consists of 2 4x8 with 2 2" foam boards on top, with an additional hidden yard that you can see in the pic to the right.


Can you walk around the whole table?


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Yes, and if I gain weight and need more room the bench work is on saw horses so it can be moved farther from the walls


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Alright guys, so while everyone else is eatching the basketball game I'm figuring out my elevation issue. 

I have 2 radical ideas, but what are your thoughts. 

1. Small helix, if I do this the elevation change would be greater than 4" probably 5". The problem with this is that 2 helixs would take up a lot of room. Sure I could make them mountains but it decrease my track space. 

2. Have a 2% grade along one of the sides (no curve) and get to the 4" elevation. The coal mine would be there and a reverse loop at the other end of the layout (loop under a mountain) this idea is conserving the most place. The "over" track would be high enough for trains to pass on the "under" track where they would "intersect". 

Idk what are your thoughts, btw I got some buildings, but no TVD stuff ;(


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I think option #2 sounds best.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

That's what I'm thinking


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

One additional benefit to option #2 is that with the grade located on straight track, you will be able to pull slightly longer trains up the grade than if the grade was on curved track. Curved track adds pulling resistance, regardless of grade.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Option #2 is really your only option. Other than totaly giving up the elevation change. A helix -- never mind two of them, is a horrible space hog. At 18" diameter -- which is really too tight to be practical, requires a whopping 40" x 40". That's almost half of your 4x8 right there. All to gain a measly 4" of elevation.

And, BTW, you only need 3", and if you were to go down a half an inch, it won't look like it is running in a trough. At 2%, you can do that in 25".

I warned you not to expect TVD stuff under the tree. The average parent's mind would be totally blown trying to order from them. Next time, ask them for a PayPal gift card and order your own!


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Option 2 it is, definetely the better choice. I'm going with the 4" elevation change only because it will allow for ample clearnance for the hidden yard and still b able to get my hand under there. If the yard wasn't going under the elevation, then it would probably only be 2". 

As for the TVD stuff I didn't expect it because my parents only shop on Amazon if they order online. So I didn't expect it, but I sure was hoping for it. Ya well, I'll have to make a purchase of my own


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Elevation figures out. 4" change in elevation over 170" about a 2.35% grade. Have to figure out the reverse loop and small yard for the coal mine. But it is looking good!


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