# Non-Chinese Manufacture



## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

Greetings gents,

Please offer suggestions for any of the following which is not made in China (and I do hope there are SOME options!):


1. Locomotives.


2. Rolling Stock.


3. HO code track and accessories.


4. Turnouts.


5. Turnout electric switches and accessories. 

6. Other. 


Thanks in advance, and please take no offense.


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## buddymedbery (Nov 5, 2020)

If you don't want anyone to take offense, it would be better to leave out the political commentary and just ask about items not made in China


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Roco, Märklin, BEMO, TRIX, GÜTZOLD and Jägerndorf, all still manufacture locomotives entirely made in Germany or Austria. 

Professional Line PIKO locomotives are made in Germany. Hobby Line is made in Indonesia. 

The above companies manufacture high-end rolling stock in German or Austria. Roco manufactures _some_ rolling stock in Slovenia.

Other German companies farm their production out to various eastern countries including China and I will not purchase those.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

As for North American railroad models....

Kato (locomotives and rolling stock) is made in Japan, I do believe.....

Accurail (rolling stock, no locomotives) is made in the U.S. I do believe.....


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## Boris (Dec 5, 2020)

Rolling Stock: Accurail and Kadee - US
Track, switches and accessory...Micro Engineering.-US; PECO made in UK
Much but not all of Woodland Scenic's offerings...structures and scenery..US
Believe KATO track.rolling stock and locomotives are still made in Japan.

These manufacturers make both N and HO and there are probably more.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That brings the question.....are there any North American type locomotives that are NOT made in China (other than Kato)......?


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

None that I am aware of. Even with costs rising all the time in China, it still makes abundant sense to get the Chinese to tool, material source, and to construct a lot of our hobby items.


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## Boris (Dec 5, 2020)

mesenteria said:


> None that I am aware of. Even with costs rising all the time in China, it still makes abundant sense to get the Chinese to tool, material source, and to construct a lot of our hobby items.


Slave labor is always cheaper.


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Mehano is a Slovenian manufacturer with a large European and American HO line. I have no experience with them, but there are Mehano owners posting on Youtube.
American models start on page 58 of their catalog: Catalogue | MEHANO
FW


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Boris said:


> Slave labor is always cheaper.


Precisely! That’s why a lot of American companies have moved all their production to China....low labour costs, bigger profits.....can’t blame them....or can we.....?


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

If you're willing to use older equipment there's tons of it available. Bowser, Varney, Tyco, Mantua, Roundhouse were all made in the US Rivarossi, AHM were made in Europe.


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

I hope we can move more stuff to made in North America (Canada for me, America for Americans) etc. I am hoping to get a Rapido train model some day !


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The issue with having trains made on this continent is that they will likely be way more expensive because of the higher labour costs.....


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Found this interesting about Bowser in Montoursville PA. 



Bowser About Us


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Boris said:


> Slave labor is always cheaper.


Not the case at all. It's simply a maturing industrial complex whose living costs are a lot less than those in the western world. For example, there probably is nothing like western unions with bargaining rights and whose strength can cause rises now and then, at which the costs must be passed on or absorbed. People who can live on $5 a day are glad to make $7 in a city, and that is where they find the work. They soon realize that cities are expensive because everyone else also needs at least $7 each day, often more, and they threaten to leave for greener pastures (another factory), which they are free to do, contrary to popular western assumptions. If the proprietor wishes to retain them for any reason, now they're worth $8 a day, and so on, and so on... If you want to understand why the Chinese manufactured items are getting more expensive, look only to the western mindset that they have begun to embrace. Or, blame the importers who set the terms for the product they'll contract the factory owners to produce. The factories are merely suppliers, a cog in the wheel.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The very reason that China tries to keep that mindset in check, they know when people start enjoying all the luxuries that they'll be demanding more wages.  However, given their population, they do have a large labor pool to keep labor costs down until they produce a lot more goods. The same thing happened in Japan, remember when (well some of us remember back that far) Japan was the cheap manufacturing country and everything seemed to be made in Japan?


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Yes, GRT, I remember watching a video long ago on a comparison of the latest British Monocycle and a Japanese one. The guy jumps on the British motorcycle and jabs at the kick starter a few times and it never started, then he hops on the Japanese one, pushes the starter button and it roared to life. Didn't take much of that to understand why British motorcycle production died off. They just could not believe that they needed to change. Japanese were very good a learning from their mistakes and realizing how important production quality was. I'm not sure the same can be said about Chinese production, but at the moment I think they are capable of making high quality stuff but just don't have that same national commitment to quality that Japan has.


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## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

BigGRacing said:


> I hope we can move more stuff to made in North America (Canada for me, America for Americans) etc. I am hoping to get a Rapido train model some day !


Hi Gary,

I'm also a big fan of Rapido but I know some (most? all?) of their products made in China.

Mike


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

All Rapido is made in China, Rapido has their own factories there....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The very reason that China tries to keep that mindset in check, they know when people start enjoying all the luxuries that they'll be demanding more wages.  However, given their population, they do have a large labor pool to keep labor costs down until they produce a lot more goods. The same thing happened in Japan, remember when (well some of us remember back that far) Japan was the cheap manufacturing country and everything seemed to be made in Japan?


It's already happening in China. Some manufacturing is already moving out of China and into other countries where labor is even cheaper (Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia), though not (AFAIK) model railroad stuff. 50 years ago, it was Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong where the cheapest manufacturing occurred.

As for bringing it back to North America, well, our resistance to paying higher prices is what drove it overseas to begin with. Do we really think the American consumer has changed that much? It's calitalism: companies are in business to make money, not to make stuff. Making and selling stuff is how they make money.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

My favorites say "Made and Painted in my Workshop".


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

What about Fox Valley Models out of Des Plaines IL? do they make their products or import them? they have some nice looking GP60's but I'm yet to own one


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

This comes from a discussion on the Model Railroader magazine site, and I quote.....



> The owner of Fox Valley Models is a very experienced modeler and custom painter (and railfan photographer) who over the years has been associated with Des Plaines Hobbies (and their manufacturing arm) and Intermountain in the kit development field. He has many contacts with the major Chinese manufacturers


Take what you will from the last sentence in that quote....

Also found this from 2018.....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't see model train manufacturing coming back to the US in any big way, on that we can certainly agree.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm agnostic about country manufacture but pretty much any Athearn made before 2004 (and maybe a few between '04 and '08) is domestically produced.

There's alot of that product around that is NOS or lightly used.

Zientek Train Shop in Chicago has a ridiculous stock of NOS kits and some R2R from a variety of domestic producers from the 80s to early 00's. Thousands of them...


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

I have many of the old Athearn BB models, those and MDC were staples in the 80's, I've actually been stripping down and rebuilding many of my old BB units, still love to build the old MDC and BB car kits


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

End of a 2007 Blue Box kit.....









The bottom 2 pics are from an Athearn RTR box from 2005.....


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

Oh I know they were made into the 2000's, I'm just saying for me as a teen in the 80's I tossed newspapers all month to make enough to buy several of the MDC or BB car kits, or a couple locomotives, many of my cars and locomotives date back to this period, prior to Irvs death these were all made in Compton CA, MDC in Carson City NV


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

I think its kinda funny how the recommended age went from 8 to 14 over the years


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Have you seen a Hornby train box lately? Recommended age is *3*....

Maybe British kids are brighter....?


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

Cant say I have, 3 huh? thats funny, I would like to get my hands on a Hornby Flying Scotsman set, both times I was the high bidder on one on Ebay I ended up getting sniped at the end


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Trackjockey05 said:


> I have many of the old Athearn BB models, those and MDC were staples in the 80's, I've actually been stripping down and rebuilding many of my old BB units, still love to build the old MDC and BB car kits


I too had many of those kits in the 1980’s.....all are gone now.....the lettering/pad printing on those were atrocious!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Trackjockey05 said:


> Cant say I have, 3 huh? thats funny, I would like to get my hands on a Hornby Flying Scotsman set, both times I was the high bidder on one on Ebay I ended up getting sniped at the end


Both my Flying Scotsman and Mallard locos have “not recommended for children under 36 months” printed on the box....

And of course, Hornby equipment is now made in China....in the early days, it was made in Great Britain....


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

I still enjoy those older kits, and yes I agree the pad printing of the era left alot to be desired, I actually used to decal over the printed lettering on some of them, they did lend themselves well to weathering, no need to simulate faded lettering


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> End of a 2007 Blue Box kit.....
> View attachment 552550
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that correction 
From what I'd heard, Horizon started transferring manufacture starting when they acquired Athearn in 2004. Looks like the transition happened faster than I thought and 2004 is effectively the cutoff if you want to be assured of domestic production. I'll edit my post accordingly.

Regarding the printing clarity, I do notice that printing seems to have gotten better in some instances when production moved overseas.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I think that printing got better due to advances in technology more than anything the China factories did on their own..... not to mention that modellers expected and wanted better....


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

Freight Cars - Shop by Category


Couplers, Trucks, Wheels and Freight Cars - Made In USA




www.kadee.com





Correct me if wrong, I believe Kadee is US made, yes?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

From the Kadee web-site.....

*Kadee® is one of the only manufacturers to entirely make there products from raw materials, molds, assembly and packaging left in the USA.*

All American couplers for your all Chinese trains.....


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

Mike L,
Good morning and thank you for that info on Rapido, I did not know that. It disappointed me for sure. I am starting to notice that a lot of companies are setting up mailboxes for their websites from Canada addresses to work around the made in China concerns.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)




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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

For Rolling-Stock and Locos, I see that the following were left-out:

Mehano - Slovenia: The U.S. stuff dates back to the AHM-era mostly, and their Hudson is Freelanced (too small a drivers for anything ever built), but their European Items are EXTREMELY on-point. Notable Locos include: 2-6-0 Camelback (NYO&W Class V - Superheated), SP 4-4-0 & 2-6-0, ALCO C630, EMD SD40-2, and the Streamlined USRA Pacifics (a little work to make a skyline casing, a repaint, and they'll be dead-ringers for the L&N 275 and 277). Good values for what they are.

Frateschi - Brasil: They have a good amount of rolling-stock and locomotives that can work for U.S. Roads. Their C30-7 and AC44i diesels are dead-ringers for their American Counterparts- if slightly toy-ish. Steam is limited to a 4-6-0 and 2-8-0 (much in the Varney Casey Jones and Old Lady tool sharing vein). They have ALCO FA diesels, there was some use of the GE and EMD export diesels in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico (extensive there), making some believable excuse for them. If you want Electrics, the GE exported Electric Locomotives look great. The V-8 Electric, is a near twin to the New Haven EP-4.

Further, there's several mom and pop ops making conversion kits and rolling stock for sale in the states. Buy second-hand what you need and go wild.

Meanwhile, if Mike Lindell can make Pillows in Minnesota, and go into sheets and dog beds, then somebody could open-up a precision casting and machine shop, and have a model train division- as part of the larger operation- to keep costs down. Anybody in a Single-Business, instead of being in closely related businesses, will fail sooner or later- for lack of diversification within their sphere, lest they be rock-solid with tenacity.


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## Irkutsker (Jul 6, 2020)

I heard that Roco is manufactured and assembled in Vietnam


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Roco locomotives are Made in Austria. _Some_ rolling stock is made in Slovakia.

Entry level locomotives from the Starter Program are made and assembled in Vietnam.


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