# Planning a new layout for a new house



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Wife and I decided to sell the town house and move out to a quieter are with more affordable housing so the old layout had to come down:

















































Here is the basement at the new house as it was when we moved in Nov 2017. Now keep in mind the house was bank owned and the main floor and bathrooms, and especially the kitchen needed a lot of work before we could even think about the basement.
















As tempting as it may have been, I didn't want to start a layout in an unfinished basement. It's not very nice and I want to paint the walls sky blue and have back drops etc.

So after getting electrical outlets installed and other things needed, I pulled a permit in late Nov and early Dec we started installing drywall ourselves to keep costs affordable for us.








Nearly all drywall in by end of Feb 2019 and first round of tape and mud.









The mudding is nearly done, just need to sand and touch up and can start painting.

Rough sketch of the track plan for the main room area.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Oh how we envy that fantastic space.

You're using it wisely. Great scenic possibilities
and continuous running enjoyment.

Love the huge yard, but am wondering if you plan
to add industrial spurs to enhance switching
operations.

Don


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

DonR said:


> Oh how we envy that fantastic space.
> 
> You're using it wisely. Great scenic possibilities
> and continuous running enjoyment.
> ...


It's hard to find decent layout ready basements in this area, at least within my price range. The Washington DC housing market is pretty high. Many houses had basements divided up if they were finished and I needed an open space. 

This one is 15' wide along the main room adjacent to the stairs, which is narrower than I would like. So mainline radii is minimum 32 inches and aisles squeeze down to 24 inches in two spots. There are two passing sidings on the main that are 20 feet so should handle around 28 coal cars and 3 engines and caboose hopefully, and an occasionally longer train.

The layout is designed so you can follow the train pretty much the whole way walk around.

The layout sketch is just the main of the layout planned so no industry is drawn in yet. I'll probably do that as I start building figuring what fits where. I've left 6 inches space along the left of the yard which should fit flats or background buildingsl and allow for freight cars to be parked. Also plan on some siding in the area above the helix blob at the bottom. If I'm frisky, I'm also planning a lower level branch line as well which will come out of the lower staging yard and run around the outside to all the way to opposite the yard.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

Looks like a great room to have layout in. Agreed on the need for a finished basement sentiment. 

Following


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## 89Suburban (Jan 4, 2017)

Nice work.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Sectional benchwork*



riogrande said:


> It's hard to find decent layout ready basements in this area, at least within my price range. The Washington DC housing market is pretty high. Many houses had basements divided up if they were finished and I needed an open space.
> 
> This one is 15' wide along the main room adjacent to the stairs, which is narrower than I would like. So mainline radii is minimum 32 inches and aisles squeeze down to 24 inches in two spots. There are two passing sidings on the main that are 20 feet so should handle around 28 coal cars and 3 engines and caboose hopefully, and an occasionally longer train.
> 
> ...


riogrande;

If you think, "decent, layout-ready basements" are hard to find in the Washington DC area, try finding any basements at all in Southern California! Homes out here don't have basements. Possibly this is because we don't need a large space for a big furnace, since the weather is so mild. I too envy your large space. I had to make do with two walls of my "California Basement," otherwise known as a garage.

Your new layout plan looks good, but I recommend not shrinking any aisle below three feet, if at all possible. Like duck-unders, pinched aisles come to haunt you more and more as you use them, and as you get older. Since nearly any HO-scale equipment can make it through even a 22" radius curve, I would trade off going with 24" curves, where necessary, in order to have 3' aisles. Of course that's just my opinion, and it's your railroad.

You have just lived through one of the main reasons I always so strongly recommend sectional layouts. You don't have to destroy years of work when you move. Instead you can take the layout, and all the time and money spent building it, along with you. I hope you plan sectional construction into your new layout. It looks like it will require years of work to build, and it would be a shame to have to tear it down someday. If you keep the size of each section at 2' x 4' then you will also be able to set a section upside down on a workbench to do the wiring, and mount switch machines. You can't believe how much easier this method is than working over your head, underneath the layout, until you have done it.

Good luck, & have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Traction fan. 

Yes, I grew up in California so know basements are very rare so layout space is a different situation.

Others have commented on aisle width similar to you, but I am planning on running long cars and 32 inches is really my minimum, so the plan is the plan. I don't expect to have a lot of visitors although I did design in some wider spots so people can pass or get around each other.

Having built layouts and moved, I have always planned to build layouts with breakdown in mind - in a sectional format. Not necessarily to be broken down and reassembled, but broken down and basic items moved. The layout plan pictured above will be built the same way, in bench-work sections. As noted, the first sections going in are re-used from the previous layout. They are 2x8 foot sections.

Here is one of them - last section to be removed from previous layout and will be going in as a core starting section on the next but without the framing above, which was removed:










Here are bench-work framing from the last layout which I plan to incorporate in some form - may need to resize.


















As for time to build, once I get rolling, I'm hoping to get the main of the bench-work up in a years time. I was able to get the 10x18' bench-work and and track laid in a couple years time in the town home basement. Water issues delayed work, especially getting scenery going - probably by 8 months time. I lived there about 4 years before we had enough of Manassas and were in a position to move to a better, quieter place with a longer commute.
The last layout (below) was mostly built (bench-work and track) in a little over a years time. This time around I have some of the framing and wood-work to help give this one a bit of a head start.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

A bit off topic, but I noticed you're somewhat close to me, and I have a link that you might find interesting. It's a group that have custody of the Vienna Station of the Washington & Old Dominion Railroad. They have a nice layout in the station and have open house events frequently.

http://www.nvmr.org/

I'm on my way out of the area by the end of the summer, but I'll be keeping an eye on your build.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Stan, are you moving out of northern Virginia then? This area is very transient with a lot of military and ex-military. I know what the transient life can be having grown up a military brat myself, and since college have rarely remained in one city for long - I was up in Syracuse from 94 - 09 because I married a local girl and local girls tend to stay local. When it all went "south", I eventually went south as central NY had/has a very depressed economy.

Fairfax would be in the metropolitan "neighborhood" as northern VA goes. My parents (father retired USAF) have lived in Fairfax for over 20 years. All three sisters are in South Riding but cost of living is so high, I had look quite a lot further west to afford a proper house with a basement and garage/yard etc. I'm just west of Bealton VA which is west of Manassas. I did live in Manassas for 4 years; it was not pleasant but it was all I could afford at the time.

I have heard of the club in Vienna Station and photo's but never visited despite living in northern VA since late 2009. While I was closer in I got involved a bit with the Potomac Modular Crew that sets up modular layouts at local shows. I think the next one is a set-up in a station out near Burk south of 66 - I forget the name. I brought trains to run there in a past set-up and little children were running around the layout bouncing their fingers off the top of my engines. Suffice it to say, I had to put a stop to it and was more cautious about what trains got brought and where. I hadn't had an operating layout in a long time but the stress of running trains at some of the modular shows cancels out some of the fun.

Hopefully I'll be getting bench-work up late summer. This is a larger layout but with the saved sectional frames, I'm hoping to get the main of the bench-work up in a years time.

Wife and I have more sanding and some touch up on the mudding and will hopefully be painting the walls by end of month and starting on installing suspended ceiling. We got a lot of it for basically free when a local guy advertised we could come and get it if we took it out. He is remodeling an outbuilding into an in-law apartment just south of Bealton.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

Da Wife and I always talked about living at the water in retirement. But I was born and raised in McLean, and she in Arlington. We sold the house in McLean in '17, and have been in a rental. We're taking a trip next week to the Northern Neck area to look at houses.

I'd love to learn more about the modular thing. I've researched it a bit, and there are no model RR clubs where we're moving to. I'd be inclined to start a modular group down there. The place you're talking about is Fairfax Station. I've been meaning to go for a visit.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

So knowing this area, if you've been hear a long time, you must have a house that has appreciated a good deal! I know my parents house, which is across from Inova Hospital on Rugby Rd is more than doubled it's value since the mid-1990's. I moved here during the recession so it took me some time to change careers and work my way back to a decent standard of living. Still a few years from retirement.

Not being a life-long east-coaster I haven't heard of Northern Neck.

I think the Potomac Crew is doing Fairfax Station this weekend. They are a pretty mellow bunch and often let some casual associates bring trains to run.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

My parents bought the house in 1954, for around $18k, with interest, it ended up at around $25k. So, yes, appreciated a little. 

This weekend is the NTrak group. The Potomac Crew is doing a modelers show when I'm gone (4/20), and will be at Fairfax Station May 4 & 5.

The Northern Neck area is where the Potomac and Rappahannock rivers meet the Chesapeake Bay. Can't be too far away from the Grandson (2 years old, in Alexandria).


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

1954 at $18k to $25k when? With the wink, I must be missing something. Being military, my parents didn't generally stay in one place back then. My dad was near the end of his 22 years in 1970 so bought a house 2100 sq ft house in Davis in 71 for $36k and commuted from Davis down to Travis AFB his last two years. They sold the house in 85 for around $160k or there abouts. I heard after they moved away a few years later it shot up to $250k. The housing market is so all over the map it's up, down and hard to figure.

The house they are in off of 50 and Rugby Rd is a bigger house and they paid $450 in 94 or 95. I think it shot up to over 1 mil before the recession hit, and back down to around 800k or a bit less at the bottom of the recession. But I'd think anyone who has had a home in FF county since the 50's or 60's would be worth a pretty penny by now! Could move somewhere where prices were cheap to retire but how much would the capital gains get you for?! Unfortunately I missed the boat on all of that.

Ah, correct on the FF station show. I get the emails from the group where they are planning which modules to bring etc. but tuned out on the date. The FF Station set-up is on the small side from what I recall and like it better when they set up bigger layouts like when they combine with another group for the boy scout shows.

As, of course. Can't be too far away. My wife is from England and has a grandchild there but her daughter was very naughty and embezzled thousands of pounds of her brother (son-in-law) who we are now having to support and get independant, so you might grand child access is not so good. Those with good family relations are lucky - sadly I'm finding out that dysfunctional families are actually all to common.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

Interest. Cost of the mortgage. My parents made sure I knew that an $18k house will cost more than $18k.
And no family is immune to dysfunction. You just have to do what you can.

So, back to your layout. How soon do you see finishing the room?


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Back to the layout room. Here is the time-line so far.

- House purchased Nov 22, 2017 (basement already framed in)
- Other house projects occupied most of 2018 (kitchen redo, replace front door, radon system for basement, whole house water filter and water softener installed, master bath shower and tub area gutted, rotted floor rehabbed and new tub and shower installed. 

Also had plumbing ran to basement bathroom and wall outlets ran from breaker box to outlets. Ran four separate circuits (1 to bathroom and broke basement into 3) much more granular than the rest of the house, but probably good if I have 3 or 4 DCC power boosters on the layout. I had to go through the basement with the county code book and make sure it was ready for the rough inspection before pulling the permit. 

- late Nov 2018 pulled permit to finish basement - it passed the inspection so I my pre-inspection prep paid off.
- Christmas day hung first drywall sheets. My sister thought we were nuts working all Christmas day on drywall!
- mid Feb drywall all hung on walls and around ceiling beams and ducts. Started taping and mudding.
- mid April, 3 coats of mud applied, now sanding and touching up areas to get ready to paint walls.

When it's just me, it goes a lot slower. When my wife helps, that speeds things up a lot. She isn't good with the mudding and skim coating but she is with sanding. She was in a car accident in Dec, rear ended so she does what she can, which has been a lot actually.

I'd guess another 4 or 5 months to get the train room finished to the point bench-work can start going up. I work F/T all week long and then on the basement on the weekend, and I'm not a spring chicken. Oh, and the stairwell down to the basement was only drywalled and taped by the builders so it need 2 or 3 cycles of mudding and sanding as well. It's all very time consuming.

We could throw money at it but we are trying to build up savings - expect we'll need a new roof in the next year or two and my cars getting up there in miles. We gotta buy my stepson a car so he can go out and get a job and stop being a drain on us. So we are trying to do the basement ourselves and just spend money on materials and occasionally on work I am not confident to do, like plumbing and house wiring.

For the ceiling, planning on 2x2 suspended and putting in 4k temp flat panel LED lights. The layout plan below shows the beams in green and the blue squares approximately where the lights will go.










All the joints now have wide bands of mud on the third coat. Before I did this basement, I got my feet wet with drywall and mudding in the last basement where I had to cut out drywall that got wet on the bottom and replace. It came out pretty good so I had the confidence to tackle an entire 700 sq feet of basement.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Riogrande, where in Manassas did you live? I live in old town, near Annaburg.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

We were off of Liberia Ave in the Point of Woods 4 town home subdivision for 4 years.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Last post was in April. The drywall was finished and painted a few weeks ago and we are now working on the drop ceiling. 

Last weekend I finished putting up the L shaped rails around four sections of the ceiling. Since there are 3 beams across the ceiling of the layout room, it divides the ceiling into four area that each need done with the drop ceiling grid. This weekend plan on installing the main runner grids with wire hangers. Then T-bars across in mostly 2x2 sections.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

It's been a few months since I posted progress on the basement finishing work. Since the last set of photo's, the suspended ceiling grid was installed and basement bathroom was worked on and finished.


















Flat panel LED lights are now installed and most of the ceiling tiles:










Bathroom work stages:










Installed the cementboard and drywall and did mudding and taping, wife did all the tile work:










Last few weeks bathoom is basically finished:



















Need to finish ceiling tiles and next floor.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

If you are planning to put carpeting down, you will regret it, you will regret it, you will regret it.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

D&J Railroad said:


> If you are planning to put carpeting down, you will regret it, you will regret it, you will regret it.


Give me some credit. This ain't my first rodeo y'know. 

My sister had wet rugs in her basement and in my last town home I had to rip out the rugs in that basement due to water. Sorry no rugs. Will be putting in faux wood vinyl plank tiles.


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

riogrande said:


> Give me some credit. This ain't my first rodeo y'know.
> 
> My sister had wet rugs in her basement and in my last town home I had to rip out the rugs in that basement due to water. Sorry no rugs. Will be putting in faux wood vinyl plank tiles.


Not necessarily,but you have to make sure your basement will be bone dry. I had the best carpet and padding installed in my basement and it was wonderful, easy on my legs and feet. Never a drop of moisture in the 17 years I lived there and it was a great place to run trains.

Dave


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

davidone said:


> Not necessarily,but you have to make sure your basement will be bone dry. I had the best carpet and padding installed in my basement and it was wonderful, easy on my legs and feet. Never a drop of moisture in the 17 years I lived there and it was a great place to run trains.
> 
> Dave


Some say there are two kinds of basements, 1) those that have flooded and 2) those that haven't flooded yet. I might go 17 years without a drop of moisture, but I don't have a crystal ball so I don't want to take the chance.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> If you are planning to put carpeting down, you will regret it, you will regret it, you will regret it.


WHY ?


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

It's been about two months since my last update. Floors are done, baseboard in and bench-work starting to be installed.


















I'm re-using two 2x8' sections from the old layout and will be adding on. I"ve lowered the elevetion to 39" above the floor and the yard above it will be 51 inches. That will give 12 inches from the staging deck to the upper deck with 11 inches clearance above the staging deck.










Here is where those two old benchwork sections drop into the scale drawing:










Added another section on Monday:


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

SantaFeJim said:


> WHY ?


First off, as mentioned, potential flood zone.
Working with small parts. Ya drop one and you will be searching for it for a long time.
Been there, done that, recommend no.


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