# Question for the Day, Professional or Home built????



## Guest (May 10, 2017)

Thanks to Spence this morning who provoked a very interesting subject when he asked this question: *"Brian; are you and Elizabeth going to build this layout or have it done?"*

Those who are considering the construction of a new layout have three choices:

1. Have a professional do it for you, hands off other than some input in terms of what you want from the layout.
2. Have part of the project done by a professional.
3. Do it all yourself. 

There are probably as many reasons out there to select one of the three options as there are folks in our hobby. It is a strictly a personal decision based upon individual preferences and skill sets. So I would never attempt to speak for others as this is such an individual decision. So please let me share with you my individual preference and why.

I absolutely select door # 3, *Do it all yourself*. Why, we get the most enjoyment from being the creative directors, the construction is actually a lot of fun, and when the layout is finished you get the pride from the knowledge you did it "all". Since we are both now retired, we do have lots of time to take on such a project. But it was not always that way. The last layout was also a huge project and I built it an an absentee capacity. I was commuting a long distance to work and got home for two weekends a month (if I was lucky). That gave me a day and a half to work on the layout twice a month before I had to go back to the airport. Not easy, but I was determined to do it myself. It comes down to what your individual motivation is.

*So, what door do you select, 1-2 or 3 and WHY?*


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

Well my layout was built entirely by me, it shows. This layout has a 24-26 month expiration date since we will be leaving the peoples republic of New Jersey soon there after. I am not a carpenter, I don't play one on TV and I don't plan on staying at a holiday inn express so if there is a next layout Mianne benchwork will be my investment going forward. Looks easy to assemble and can be put up and knocked down without altering the space (a big plus if we rent for a while). That is the degree of professional help I would be seeking. Track laying, wiring, scenery I can handle.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

I would ask a professional on advice, then I would ask any members in my club for help and in return they can come run Trains on my layout. Currently a member in the AGTTA Club in San Diego is building a 3 story layout and Every time I go over there, I have to test the track to run a train from level 2 to level 3 which isn't easy considering that the track is buried under the floor


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Over the last 25 years or so I have attempted 5 layouts and have never finished one before I tear it down and start a new because I got bored with it. So for me would be door #3.

Bill


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Brian, I will share my decision process. First off, I do both. every rear I build a fairly nice layout for use during the 2 months over the Christmas holidays and beyond. I took several shots over the years at a permanent layout but my skills were not adequate to meet my expectations.
After significant planning and discussion my wife and I decided to commission a professional built permanent layout. Several observations. The track plan I ended up with is far superior to what I had settled on with my own design. The construction quality far exceeds anything I could have built. It is built in modules so if we move it can be easily disassembled and relocated.
The true reason we made this decision was time. It took a team of highly skilled modelers 6,500 work hours to build the layout. I watched many of them at work. Even if I had their talent I could not have worked nearly as fast. Not factored in are all the AutoCad screen hours, laser cutting and CNC machine hours used to produce the models. Remember, in S gauge very little is available in scale, unlike in O gauge. We had to custom make almost everything from turnouts to structures. 
Using two optimistic assumptions, first that I could devote 1,000 hours/year and second that I could achieve acceptable results with a 50% productivity rate of the professionals I would have to wait 13 years rather than one year to have a layout. At this point in our lives quality of time is more important than the money to us. Plus I still get to build nice holiday layouts each year while enjoying my permanent layout.
I have posted quite a few layout pictures in the S gauge section of the forum.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I'd definitely do it myself. Always have, always hope to be able to.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Having built 3 previous layouts in the past, I chose Mianne benchwork this time. I couldn't be happier with the product, plus you can change things around if needed. The layout is only 8x6 but my goal was a display/Christmas type look. I'm still playing with track plans. I think maybe I have too much stuff and not enough space. Hmm... wonder how that happened?


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

For me, a large part of the enjoyment of this hobby is the many different skills that are required. If I just ran trains and nothing else, i suspect I might get bored. I enjoy wiring, doing scenery, building models etc. I enjoy the variety and the opportunity of stretching my creativity. Now, I don't have my own layout but I've been a member of my train club for over 28 years. We update or change something every year. We enjoy the projects and our returning open house visitors like to see something new. What a great hobby.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

As much as I would love to have the look of a professionally built layout, I would rather say we built that, than say we paid for that.

For me it is model railroading, and I enjoy seeing what I can come up with on my own. 

I mix plasticville, built up, kit built, and scratch built. And I run prewar thru tmcc and dcs.

enjoy it all.


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

6500 work hours to build a train layout had to cost quite a sum. There is a line between how much disposable income can be devoted to a hobby I suppose.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I am in the "do it yourself" category. I love building, wiring, scenery, etc. I've learned so much over the last 12 years. Do I make mistakes; sure, lots of them but I also learn from my mistakes. I'm like Pat, if I just ran trains I'd get bored. I love lots of projects.


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

Door number 3. I built my own layout starting with 2 4x8s like when I was a young boy with my Dad. Now layout takes up 2/3 of finished basement 13' x 40' but is S gauge. O gauge around the ceiling is 20' x 24' 3 o72 lines.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Brian, I absolutely select door #3. All my life, in everything I have tackled, I have forged ahead, by myself. Sure, there have been mishaps. Once, when I was building an addition on my first house, the concrete forms broke when the concrete was half way up. When it set up, instead of having a straight wall, I had a pyramid. There was lots of chiseling and hammering for several days trying to make the wall straight enough to face it with brick. 

No matter what, I have tried to be a do-it-your-selfer. Once or twice when I hired out something, I usually had to do something over to make it the way I wanted. 

Trains and layouts are fun, albeit time consuming, but also satisfying.


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## Guest (May 10, 2017)

I have built many layouts doing it all myself. In 2010 we downsized, moving into a condo. I had no place to build benchwork so I ordered Sievers Benchwork for my N scale layout. It is high quality and easy to assemble. We found the condo both too small and too much like an apartment building and moved to a townhouse in 2013. Sievers is modular so I easily reconfigured it to fit the new train room. In 2014 I switched to O. I found N too small at that stage of my life. I reconfigured the benchwork again to accommodate O gauge. Last year we moved to Florida and the benchwork was again reconfigured and augmented with new modules for my present layout. I've always used door #1 but if I had the money I'd like to try door #3. I think professionals could build a better layout than I ever could. I'm not the most creative guy and while I enjoy the building process it's not why I build layouts. I love running trains and don't become bored without something to build. Once I get trains running I make very slow progress on a layout since I spend so much time running trains. Running a professionally built layout would keep me happy.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

It is interesting to see the different preferences and reasons for them. The hobby offers many ways to enjoy it.

We are in the professional stage right now as still getting the garage added on to... concrete prep today and more rain tonight and the next three days. But, this time the ground is ready and covered with plastic ready to dig the foundation Monday AM.

Will do most of the interior work ourselves with the help of my brother-in-law (okay Brian, he is a contractor) but Paula and I will be in the middle of it. I have always done my own layout but the last was about 1986. Thankfully not much has changed except everything.

Good thread PTC.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Being that I was a Wood Shop Teacher for 30 years, you better betcha I did it myself. No other way.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Oh my goodness!! If I had to pay a professional, there would be no layout.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

_Collecting, designing, planning, is the journey that makes running trains so much more gratifying... 
Oh yea #3... _


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Mark Boyce said:


> Oh my goodness!! If I had to pay a professional, there would be no layout.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree Mark. For lots of folks, where train money may be limited, the savings of doing it yourself is a no brainer. More left over for important things , like MORE TRAINS!


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

i had a professional build the platform, but i did everything else. door 2.5?

frankly, i could not build the same layout again. the physical limitations (mine) would be the issue.

if i did do another layout, which is unlikely for a variety of reasons, i would have someone build it, but i would determine the design parameters.


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

I'm in for #3 with a qualification.......I used Mianne Benchwork. I am no carpenter. I figured the $1200 it cost equaled the ER copays that I would have incurred to sew my fingers back on.....
Peter


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Peter, You do have a great point there. It is not worth pain and suffering. I just had my car's oil changed today. I quit doing it myself after a groin pull trying to get the oil filter loose almost 20 years ago. It still bothers me from time to time.


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## gnnpnut (Oct 19, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Thanks to Spence this morning who provoked a very interesting subject when he asked this question: *"Brian; are you and Elizabeth going to build this layout or have it done?"*
> 
> Those who are considering the construction of a new layout have three choices:
> 
> ...


There is a fourth option. Work with close friends on achieving your objectives, and theirs. Putting it in railroad terms, share "horsepower hours". 

regards,
Jerry


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Pebo said:


> I'm in for #3 with a qualification. I figured the $1200 it cost equaled the ER copays that I would have incurred to sew my fingers back on.....
> Peter


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Jerry, you are absolutely correct on the 4th option.

Peter, I want to add to my other reply that I looked at Mianne, but realized I would need some custom work to fill my room. Also, I came upon some well seasoned, good wood, so I will try not to cut my thumb off with the Skil saw! On second thought, the way my thumbs throb and have sharp pains from arthritis, maybe cutting one off isn't a bad idea!! LOL

Thank you for the comments, gents!


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## Guest (May 11, 2017)

*There is a fourth option. Work with close friends on achieving your objectives, and theirs. Putting it in railroad terms, share "horsepower hours". *

*Absolutely correct.* Honestly, I never thought of this as where we live, there are very limited O-Gauge enthusiasts, except for our really good friend John (Blue Comet 400) who would help at the drop of a pin.

So there is now Door # 4.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I went with #3. I wanted to see if I could do it since I was a city boy raised in a high rise and had never done anything like that. I found I liked cutting the wood and doing the wiring. The track plan evolved as I was going.


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## Guest (May 11, 2017)

I think that building a layout is an evolving process, by that I mean the more layouts you build, the better you get at it. I started with a 4x12 ft. sheet of plywood as a kid, and have never looked back. It got easier and better the more layouts I built.

One thing I have learned is not to "wing it". Spend a good deal of time creating a plan. Even of you job construction out, you should have a plan of want you want to hand over to a layout builder. The construction phase is so much easier if you have a plan to reference. 

I would suggest to those that are physically capable (we are both in our late seventies, so don't let age be an excuse) never be afraid to give building your layout a try. You will get more enjoyment out of this than any other way.


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## Slowhands (Apr 28, 2016)

Option #3 for a variety of reasons, some mentioned in previous posts. The layout currently being worked on is my first, other than a carpet layout of my Dad's 1928 American Flyer set at Christmas when I was growing up. One of the reasons for building myself is my 3-year old grandson: he just flat out loves trains! We get to spend time together whether it be just pushing cars around on the tracks, or talking about what we should look for at the train show, or what scenery we should plan on having, "helping" to clean and lube cars and engines, holding one end of the tape while I measure, and so on. A week ago we had to mostly disassemble the partly built layout to move the table and board to another room. The look on his face and just the sheer fun he was having carrying little things back and forth, or putting things on the shelves was just priceless.


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## Guest (May 11, 2017)

*"The look on his face and just the sheer fun he was having carrying little things back and forth, or putting things on the shelves was just priceless."*

That's what it is all about.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Mark Boyce said:


> Oh my goodness!! If I had to pay a professional, there would be no layout.
> 
> ...


OTOH, with everything else going on in life these days... If I DIDN'T decide to have a layout professionally built this year, there would be no COMPLETED layout!!! 

David


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> OTOH, with everything else going on in life these days... If I DIDN'T decide to have a layout professionally built this year, there would be no COMPLETED layout!!!
> 
> 
> 
> David



Great point David! It seems all of us is lacking one of the three essentials to building a layout we want; time, money, space. Sometimes money can buy space and sometimes not


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## mike77406 (Feb 7, 2016)

I am planing in the near future to have the bench work built for my layout. Not having the proper tools, time, and skills, make it an easy choice for me. With that said, I will be doing all other aspects on my own.


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## Red October (Sep 13, 2015)

Took me eight years to build my first and last layout. Wouldn't have it any other way.

You can have visitors to your home and tell them "let me show you what I built" or "take a look at what I bought"

And trust me on this. You can say "I don't have the skill"

Baloney.

You can learn to do anything if you give it a spin.

I knew nothing about building a layout, scenery or structures when I started, and built a pretty dandy layout for the first try.

As for "I don't have the time"

It took me eight years because I literally built my layout in 15 minute increments, working on it a few times a day. Maybe an hour a day day for about 2800-3000 days. Break every task into small digestible parts. I would ballast four feet of track at a time, walk back in there an hour later and apply glue. An hour later apply some tint with watered down paint. By the end of the day, I might do ten feet of ballasting. By the end of the week, maybe 70 to 100 feet. By the end of the month, 500 feet. 

Not as daunting as it seems.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Red, That is how I built my previous layouts, and at least until I retire, that is how it will be with this one too.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

I am going to go for #2 and #3. For all intent and purposes I am 90% #3. BUT, there are very specific reasons I opted in for a little of #2. When my 4'X7' Christmas layout decided to stay and when it decided to grow, all by itself, there were many things I simply did not know how to do. Primarily that related to a time when "it" decided it wanted to become more of a "realistic" looking train table. 

I had made friends with members of our forum and I asked one of them to build 2 buildings for me. I went to his home and watched and learned. Now I am building my own scenery and buildings and enjoying it very much. The second event was the construction of my elevated track. Jim Robinson from Bridgeboss was a wonderful person and company to work with. The track came out amazing. But, when I decided to build my second elevated track I had learned from another member the way to build my own elevated truss and that came out amazing. 

I've never had a problem asking for help. Many have given that help and I have become a better layout builder. Bear in mind I have only built one permanent layout which grew from 28 sq.ft. to well over 320+ sq. ft. I will probably never build another one, because "it" will never let me finish this one.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Wood I like your idea. Learn from an expert, copy what he does. It saves a lot of redoing later and seems especially important as we get older. I wish that we had some "experts" a bit closer.


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## Guest (May 14, 2017)

I think most of us use professionals for some aspects of a layout build. In woods case, the elevated track system and two buildings did not take away form the fact that virtually all it was home built.

So Wood, in my humble opinion, *you are a solid Door # 3.*


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Bill Webb said:


> I wish that we had some "experts" a bit closer.


Bill, Thanks for your comment. In regard to experts living close. I am fortunate to have several layouts very close to my home. But, I never knew about them until I joined TCA. When that happened a hobbyiest called me and invited me to a local group, that visits layouts during the winter. It was shocking to find so many people live near me in my own home town.

I did a TCA member search and only entered your hometown - Suffolk, VA. 9 members showed up in your own city. Who knew???

On another topic. You live on the west side of the Great Dismal Swamp. My son lives on the East side of the Swamp. Next time we go down I'll give you a call and maybe we could get together.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> So Wood, in my humble opinion, *you are a solid Door # 3.*


Yes PTC you are correct! I just wanted to point out the value of professional help in some instances. Here's another example - If it wasn't for GunrunnerJohn most of my engines would be sitting on the shelf. He is the "man" for the modern electronic repair and upgrades!!!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Red October said:


> Took me eight years to build my first and last layout. Wouldn't have it any other way.
> 
> You can have visitors to your home and tell them "let me show you what I built" or "take a look at what I bought"
> 
> ...


That's the same with me. It took five years to get my layout to the way it is today. A little bit here and there. At some point I rewired it. 

I added 7ft to my leg extension making it 11ft and I was able to lengthen the train yard. Then adding a 048 horseshoe curve at the end. Putting in ponds, roads and more buildings. This year I added crossing gates. 

A lot I learned from you guys, watching videos of layouts and talking to people. When I saw Wood at York Last October, he suggested painting my wall sky blue with clouds. That's my next project.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Mark Boyce said:


> Jerry, you are absolutely correct on the 4th option.
> 
> Peter, I want to add to my other reply that I looked at Mianne, but realized I would need some custom work to fill my room. Also, I came upon some well seasoned, good wood, so I will try not to cut my thumb off with the Skil saw! On second thought, the way my thumbs throb and have sharp pains from arthritis, maybe cutting one off isn't a bad idea!! LOL
> 
> ...


I'm watched the demo video for Mianne. I saw them a York. They had a section that was able to raise up so you can walk under the layout. 
The basic kit would be great for someone who is getting started doesn't know how to use power tools and has the money.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm definitely a do it myselfer. If something is not the way I want, I don't hesitate to take it apart & do it over until I'm satisfied. 




Red October said:


> Took me eight years to build my first and last layout. Wouldn't have it any other way.
> 
> You can have visitors to your home and tell them "let me show you what I built" or "take a look at what I bought"
> 
> ...


This is about how I'm renovating my place.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hi Everyone.
I noticed someone else posted this question before I did. The hobby shop I visited in Calgary offers layout design & building. I didn't ask them about this service, but I was curious if anyone would choose professionally built over do it yourself. A person could be really busy & choose pro built & if they want switches, turnouts they won't have to worry about shorts, yet we'll learn from our mistakes if we built a layout ourselves bent nails & all.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Might I add another option, folks, a two-step process with the first step being assembling the benchwork and second step is building the layout on that benchwork.
For the first step, purchase Mianne's pre-fab benchwork system and assemble it. Second step: lay track, do necessary wiring and then for me what's the most rewarding part, scenic it with requisite scenery, buildings, vehicles, and people.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

ogaugeguy said:


> Might I add another option, folks, a two-step process with the first step being assembling the benchwork and second step is building the layout on that benchwork.
> For the first step, purchase Mianne's pre-fab benchwork system and assemble it. Second step: lay track, do necessary wiring and then for me what's the most rewarding part, scenic it with requisite scenery, buildings, vehicles, and people.


That's the route I went, Mianne bench work and the rest will be all my doing.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

It really doesen't matter how you get there as long as in the end your able to run trains.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Hey guys, as far as I am concerned, hiring someone to build your layout is like buying a really great bottle of wine and then paying someone else to enjoy it for you.

No way!


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## BFI66 (Feb 7, 2013)

I am also a “do it your selfer.” I always start off with a plan but as I progress I often trash it in favor of a better way to do it. If someone made a layout for me....I guarantee, I would take most of it apart and do it my way.

-Pete


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2017)

Building benchwork is pretty simple and can save you some really big bucks in the process. Heck, we are talking 2x4's and plywood for benchwork that can support a small army.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Building benchwork is pretty simple and can save you some really big bucks in the process. Heck, we are talking 2x4's and plywood for benchwork that can support a small army.


Agreed, Brian. Like all things in life, it's a matter of skill, available time, and priorities. If I have both the time and skill set, then the priority for my $$ is spending it on trains rather than prefab wood pieces.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

No interest in ever doing bench work again. It's not enjoyable to me. Will gladly pay someone to do it and focus on what I enjoy-model building and scenery.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2017)

I can understand why some of our folks chose to have a vendor build their benchwork. Some have neither the time or don't want to bother with this work.

For us, we are both retired and have the time. There is also something special about being able to say "we did it all" when it comes to talking about your layout. I would not trade that feeling.

I am not a carpenter, not even close. But if I figured out how to do it, believe me, if I can, most others should be able to do this as well. Don't be intimidated.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm definitely not a carpenter. I'm a city boy who grew up in s high rise. I had to study a video on building a layout until I thought I had it and every time I wasn't sure about something I would go back and look at the video, but I got it done.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have no illusions that I'd have any difficulty building the benchwork, but having a "no-mess" quick solution to the basic benchwork with Mianne appeals to me. All the design and actual layout will be mine.


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## Red October (Sep 13, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> There is also something special about being able to say "we did it all" when it comes to talking about your layout. I would not trade that feeling.
> 
> I am not a carpenter, not even close. But if I figured out how to do it, believe me, _*if I can, most others should be able to do this as well*_. Don't be intimidated.


Great minds think alike. I salute your determination.

My benchwork was an absolute disaster. Andre and Rob English came to my house one Christmas, looked under the table top and were just shaking their heads - in betlween belly laughs, of course. "Hey, some stuff I do pretty good, some stuff, not so good." Say what you will, From soup to nuts I did it myself, and that's undeniable. I had the resources to buy a layout, but where's the fun in that? 

Since I posted my layout progress day by day for years on another forum - a good 100 or so pages. Unfortunately, the owner of that forum decided that there was too much target practice going on with a couple of instigators, so he killed the thread.









































































I tried building my own trestle once. Didn't like it, ripped it apart, built a second, third and fourth before I finally got the hang of it. Had never built anything like it before, but figured it out. Probably spent $100.00 in quarter square lengths at Home Depot, which beats the heck out of paying $500.00 or more for a custom made job built by someone else.










The shack at left was my first scratchbuild. A quarter inch- equals a foot, figure out how big you want it, cut in a door and a window and you've got a shack.





































World's worst benchwork:










But it worked:










Stuff takes time, and a whole lot less money if you put your mind to it. I wouldn't trade the satisfaction of having done it myself for any purchased layout. Like Brian said - if he (or I) can - anybody can.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2017)

As usual, terrific work, Frank. You are an inspiration to all of us with your talent.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Spence said:


> It really doesen't matter how you get there as long as in the end your able to run trains.


Very good insight, Spence! Very good indeed....

Well today marks "T minus 2 weeks and counting" for the delivery of my Allegheny & Pacific Railway Company layout by Dunham Studio's. The layout is based loosely on a Lionel post-war style layout named "Layout for the Years" (originally sized about 8' x 13' for Lionel "O" tubular track), which I scaled up to roughly 10' x 30' with much broader curves and #'d scale turnouts using MTH ScaleTrax. I also added an upper level figure-eight and lower-level loop for added multi-train operation when the mood strikes me to just watch the trains roll.

Team Dunham provided the artistic rendering with the utmost professionalism, and they tweaked my layout design somewhat so they could bring it into their world of 3D portability when building it. Although my wife and I don't plan to move anytime soon, I was really enamored with the concept that this layout could be easily relocated, if we decided to ever "downsize" our living arrangements years down the road. I've seen too many fine layouts that needed to be completely demolished, because there was never any thought given to relocating the layouts. And truth be told, I wouldn't even know how to begin building a layout this complicated in what became 2 dozen or so pieces that fit together like a seamless jig-saw puzzle.  

I've built layouts from the ground up during my 50+ years of enjoying this hobby. And I learned a lot about myself along the way... many things I enjoyed, and a very short-list of things I didn't. But here's the deal: *Sometime, it's OK to be the project director instead of "doing it all yourself"*. I understand the feeling of accomplishment one would feel when looking at the completed project and telling friends, "I did is from start to finish". True... that's very rewarding. But that wasn't important for me this time around. And it really IS equally rewarding to watch a team of artisans "doing their thing" as they all work in tandem to achieve the end-goal. 

So choosing Dunham Studios to produce this layout was a natural choice for me in this stage of my life. The project has been documented with progress photos on Dunham Studio's Facebook Page for a good portion of 2017. And CTT plans to do a full-feature article of the layout in 2018. Roger Carp seems like a terrific guy to work with as the Allegheny & Pacific Rwy will be formally shared in print media for lots of model train enthusiasts to enjoy. I will post a few "sneak preview" photos during Team Dunham's installation, but the real "publication quality" photos will follow sometime in 2018 -- most likely the latter portion of the year from what I understand.

As for the layout's delivery falling smack in the middle of what I've always referred to as "the height of Christmas anticipation time for kids" (i.e., the 10-12 days PRECEDING Christmas Day), that was purely coincidental. But I'll admit it has me feeling like a big kid at Christmastime again!  

Looking back on the decision to have Dunham Studios build the layout vs. me doing it all myself??? I have absolutely no regrets in the decision I made. None whatsoever. Sure... writing a few checks in 2017 was a bit sobering to say the least, but the results have been truly worth it. My wife and I took a ride to Upstate NY to see the layout in-person back in late-September (when the layout had just reached the initial scenery stages), and we were awe-struck to say the least. My wife didn't think the layout would fit in our basement -- it looked so deceivingly large!!!  But I reassured her the layout will fit (with plenty of room to walk around it), since we measured the room a gazillion times to be sure before construction started!!!  

A year ago this time in 2016, I formally decided to enlist the services of Team Dunham. I had already spent a good portion of 2016 designing the layout, and we spent December/January fine-tuning the layout's design for production. In March 2017, I rented a 9-foot U-Haul cargo van and hauled ALL my track, operating accessories, transformers, trackside signals and Department 56 Christmas-In-The-City buildings to Dunham Studios with my loyal black Lab companion Zuke along for the ride. And the rest, as they say, is history. 

Most recently, I just completed the installation of the train room lighting using a variety of Philips HUE smart lights, a system I chose so that the layout will have some truly wonderful lighting effects for daylight and nighttime running of trains. And I learned a tremendous amount about this new emerging technology along the way. So between designing the layout and configuring the train room lighting, I feel I've contributed some key elements to the project. 

The good Lord willing.... lots of exciting times should be ahead for the Allegheny & Pacific Railway Co. And at the end of the day, that's all that truly matters.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2017)

You picked a good one with the Dunham team. Charles did a backdrop for me in 1996 and it was gorgeous.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That sounds like a wonderful Christmas present. Mine was installed 13 months ago, it was great to finally have it in the house. How many days do they estimate for the installation and testing?


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm looking forward to seeing your new layout in action. :thumbsup:


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Awesome Dave! Excited for you!

Dave's reply sums it up for me.

A close parallel-for 19 yrs I spent a lot of my free time building a muscle car. One day, I decided I was done with chasing parts, spending my 'off' time doing body work, etc. Sold it and bought one completely finished. 

Best decision I ever made. I've enjoyed spending time rubbing wax and driving 'my' car! 

It's all about the stage of life you are in and what you find enjoyable, at least to me. Your mileage may vary!


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

I'm excited for you, Dave. There are a lot of facets to this great hobby. Different people enjoy different facets. It's all good.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I have seen a couple of Dunham layouts, they are super nice. Installation and operating pictures would be great to see.

Bill


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## Red October (Sep 13, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> And CTT plans to do a full-feature article of the layout in 2018. Roger Carp seems like a terrific guy to work with as the Allegheny & Pacific Rwy will be formally shared in print media for lots of model train enthusiasts to enjoy.


You made a good choice, Roger Carp is one of the finest people you will ever meet in this hobby, Brimming with true enthusiasm, smart as heck and a fine gentleman. My enjoyment of the hobby was greatly enhanced by my friendship with Roger.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the kind words and well-wishes.  

Yesterday (Tuesday evening), Barbara Dunham posted over three dozen snapshots of my "completed layout" on the *Dunham Studios Facebook Page* before disassembly begins later today (Wednesday). So feel free to grab a sneak-peek of the layout if you're curious.

With all the prep-work that went into this project and then tracking its progress thru most of the year, it seems 2017 has really gone by in a flash. And here we are in early December now -- with delivery of the layout set for next week. I must admit that looking at Barbara's photos of the layout last night really hit home and made me feel like a big kid at Christmastime again.  

There are still a few train boxes here at home that I need to move out of the train room yet  to make way for the new layout being re-assembled in a completely clean and empty room. So the countdown-clock is definitely ticking fast. 

Two members of the installation crew are due to arrive early on Monday to install the custom backdrop mural first, while the remainder of the installation team including Clarke and Barbara plan to arrive Monday evening. So everyone will be all set to hit the ground running very early Tuesday morning when the 53' truck is due to arrive around sunrise. (I wonder how much sleep I'll get Monday evening!!!) The Dunham Studios installation team has allocated 3-4 days if necessary, although the truck will be back on the road by Tuesday evening from what I understand. Tuesday/Wednesday will be the long work-days for sure. Harry Henning III (of Henning's Trains in Lansdale, PA) will be part of the installation team here locally as well. Clarke has assembled his usual top-notch crew for the installation, so I have absolutely no doubts that all will be in very good hands!

All I need to do now is wrap up some work-related stuff this week, so I'm free to photograph the installation next week and take care of feeding everybody!!! 

Stay tuned... 

David


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2017)

WOW, that is a fabulous layout, David. Please post pictures when it's all done next week.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Whether you do it like Frank or David, either way is exciting!

No doubt you are excited about Dunham's truck arriving! Congratulations, David!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Can't wait to see the new layout David.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dave, how do you find it on their Facebook page? I see 2000 pictures!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If this is part of it, maybe you need to hire a track straightener!


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Dozens of photos captured this year, John... and you had to post that one here.  Yes, I saw that too. But not to worry (although I've seen prototype track that looks like that!). Team Dunham's crew was literally crawling on that area of the layout last week painting the blue water in the adjacent canal. So that's likely when that happened. We'll be sure to include that on the "punch list" during the installation.  A little tweak here and there, and all will be good. 

David


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It looks amazing Dave, but I saw that particular shot and couldn't resist!  I'm sure they'll make it right.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

For those of you interested in seeing a few photos of the layout's "load out" process when it was loaded into the 53' trailer on Friday, check out Dunham Studios Facebook page. Clarke and Barbara Dunham documented the amazing work required to dismantle one of their layouts. 

The layout was already stripped of the buildings, bridges, trackside signals and most of the fascia boards on Thursday, so Friday's photos show the basic layout (looking a bit barren compared to Wednesday's "photo shoot") being broken down into the 15 or so modules plus all the gates that support the modules. Between the carpentry techniques, modular wiring, and the carved-foam scenery, it's really amazing how these layouts can be transported. And then "re-assembled" at the client's residence. Fascinating when you stop and think about it.

Stay tuned...

David


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Rocky Mountianeer, just how big is this layout? I found the photos and look forward to seeing it all together at your home hopefully with photos as well.

is this command control or?


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If this is part of it, maybe you need to hire a track straightener!
> 
> View attachment 376978


well the mow need to have something to do! while you don't want to leave it that way in reality some tracks look just like that very prototypical


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dave, providing links to the pages you reference would be useful.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Dave, providing links to the pages you reference would be useful.


gunrunnerjohn and others, below is the link to what your seeking scroll down once there when you see semi tractor trailer that be where the pictures are I think it says 30 something pictures its incredible!

https://www.facebook.com/dunhamstudios/


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

_After the track plan an scenery, How hard is it to choose structures and buildings ? Do they offer suggestions or other options ? what about autos trucks and people. Seems like a whole lot of planning in a short time considering most people build their layouts over a period of years...._


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

It's looking good David.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

empire builder said:


> Rocky Mountianeer, just how big is this layout? I found the photos and look forward to seeing it all together at your home hopefully with photos as well.
> 
> is this command control or?


The layout is "roughly" 10' wide x 30' long in our finished walkout basement, where the trains reside in a space that is approx. 15' wide x 37.5' long. There's an adjacent sitting area to the train space as well. The maximum curves on the outer mainline loop worked out to be O-101 to allow wider aisles around the entire layout, yet still give articulated locomotives and 18" passenger cars some leg room too.

The layout is wired as 4 basic loops. The lower level loop and upper level figure eight are really just there for display purposes and dimensional interest. And the mid-level has two connected mainline loops where there's lots of room for operational interest.... industrial sidings, passing sidings, two reverse loops, etc...

Each loop can be operated via DCS/Legacy or conventional control. And there's a toggle switch on the control panel that determines each loop's mode of operation. 

I expect the two mid-level mainline loops will almost exclusively run command-control equipment. And I have only a couple of older, sentimental locomotives that run in conventional mode, so I wanted to be able to run them when the mood strikes me. In addition to the regular DCS and Legacy remotes, the layout supports the new DCS WiFi App... so I plan to explore using my iPad for handheld train control of MTH and Lionel locomotives.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

The photos on Facebook look fantastic.:appl:


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Stoshu said:


> _After the track plan an scenery, How hard is it to choose structures and buildings ? Do they offer suggestions or other options ? what about autos trucks and people. Seems like a whole lot of planning in a short time considering most people build their layouts over a period of years...._


Stoshu, funny you should mention this. And it's one of the reasons I chose Dunham Studios for this project. Ultimately, there's gotta be an enormous comfort level between the client and layout builder to undertake a project this large. And I knew Clarke had the track record to execute the vision I had in my head -- even when that vision evolved slightly.

There was a TON of planning before anybody powered up a saw. For years I had accumulated lots of the Lionel tinplate buildings, Korber building kits, and Lionel accessories that you see on the completed layout when photos were taken of it last Wednesday at Dunham Studios before the load-out on Friday. I provided literally everything in terms of trains, track, signals, Z-4000 transformers (2), DCS/Legacy systems, Dept 56 "Christmas In the City" buildings, and Lionel accessories. I also provided the 3 Hellgate Bridges as well as the arch bridges on the lower level at one end of the layout. 

Dunham Studios created the matching support structures underneath the 3 Hellgate Bridges, and they built tower-piers to support the long span of arch-bridges. In both cases, you'd be hard-pressed to tell those support structures weren't part of the original product. Just unbelievable work! They also provided some other bridges in the center portion of the layout, and they built the entire elevated structure where the upper level figure-8 passes above/through the Dept 56 village. And when Team Dunham assembled and painted the Korber building kits, they painted them to match the Lionel colors used on the Lionel tinplate factory. I've NEVER seen Korber buildings painted like that. Just wow!!! :thumbsup: Dunham Studios also provided all the O-Gauge people, and most of the vehicles you see in the various detailed vignettes around the layout. 

The overall "look-and-feel" of the layout came about through a number of discussions with Clarke. Originally, I was thinking of an extensively detailed layout with ultra-high realism -- something along the lines of Rich Battista's Black Diamond Railroad. (See Rich's website at toytrainsontracks.com, if you're not already familiar with Rich's layout.) However, that kicked the price of the project into a completely different dimension -- well beyond my budget! And truth be told, I had a lot of tinplate buildings and bridges that brought our discussions back toward a layout theme that emphasized the true toy-like charm of O-Gauge trains. And Clarke executed on this theme to the nines... giving me BOTH toy-like charm AND enough hints of high-rail realism -- so our brain fills in the additional details. He even came up with the idea of displaying my Standard Gauge train collection behind the lower level arch bridges at one end of the layout with built-in shelves and cabinetry. That little jewel of an idea was left as a bit of a surprise when Team Dunham sent me the "final" construction packet to review. Simply brilliant!

So once the track plan, scenic theme and overall look-and-feel were nailed down, it became a fairly straightforward project -- at least from my perspective -- for Dunham Studios to do what they do best in a well-defined timeline of roughly 9 months. 

Quite honestly, I don't know if I could have chosen anyone else to execute this with such an open-ended agreement. Think of it this way... how many of us would agree to have a house built without crossing every T and dotting every I before signing off on things? But that is essentially what happened here. The actual "formal agreement" was a single page document, backed by a handshake, an agreed-upon track plan, and the many emails and verbal discussions where all the above ideas were flushed out so that we were all on the same page.

As a "hands-on" avid model railroader, this was critical. And the results speak for themselves. Should make for a very exciting week. Hopefully Mother Nature will give us a break on Tuesday, which is the critical day the truck gets unloaded. We got about 3-4 inches of the white stuff here on Saturday. But the roads are clear, and much of the snow has already melted leaving just a dusting on the lawn where the installation crew will be bringing modules from the truck into our basement entrance. Keeping my fingers crossed.  Gotta love Mother Nature's timing sometimes.

David


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Thanks, David, for the update on your new layout. I'm anxious to see the layout set up in your home.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

You have done a great job of filling us in on your project. The anticipation of seeing this setup is perfect for the Christmas season. I can't wait for Santa to show up! Take lots of pics.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2017)

David, simply put, Clarke Dunham was an excellent choice. Hope all goes well this week with the installation phase.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm looking forward to a visit to the new layout Dave, the pictures don't do it justice I'm sure. :worshippy:


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I doubt you'll be sleeping much on Monday night what with the anticipation of Tuesday's delivery.


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## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

I'd love to see a documentary about the entire process. It's fascinating to me. And I love the building they work in. Huge old building out in the middle of the woods. What a dream job. 

I also enjoyed the pictures of the recent Polar Express layout that Trainworx made this year. I liked seeing how they broke it up into modules in order to fit it down into the client's basement to reassemble. A lot of thought has to go into designing layouts remotely like this and I enjoy that aspect of it.

I look forward to seeing your own pics after it's installed. What a dream it must be for you.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

towdog said:


> I look forward to seeing your own pics after it's installed. What a dream it must be for you.


Ditto on my feeling. Except at this time of the year "What a Christmas present it must be for you!!!"

I have seen completed, professionally built, layouts but never heard the story like you are giving us. Thank you so much for that.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer, So the layout should be pretty much assembled by now. When do we get some photos of the finished product???? I think a lot of us are waiting, with anticipation!


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

teledoc said:


> ... So the layout should be pretty much assembled by now. When do we get some photos of the finished product???? ...


Teledoc, this is a MULTI-DAY installation, so things aren't quite "finished" yet.  Far from it, in fact.

Monday, Day 0, was the installation of the backdrop mural.

Tuesday, Day 1, was primarily "load in" day, where everything was unloaded off the truck and brought into the client's residence. It's really quite amazing to see how this whole process works. 

What we don't realize is these layouts aren't moved from Dunham Studios as finished pieces, per se. Instead, the buildings, operating accessories, tall railroad signals and any "loose" items are actually removed from the layout at Dunham Studio's first. The buildings and accessories (large and small) are all packed back into their original Lionel boxes or Department 56 boxes for transport. Of course, what this then means is all of these items are brought to the clients residence IN ADDITION to the layout structure itself. So if the layout takes up a good part of the train room, then all these other items need to occupy other spaces in the residence!!! 

Most of Day1 was unloading everything from the truck. The boxed buildings, mountain scenery and arch bridges are currently occupying two garage bays and our home theatre (which is directly adjacent to the train room in the basement). Meanwhile, the framework of the layout and most of the basic platforms (modules) are now assembled in the train room. And I'll post some pics of that soon. Today (let's call it Day2) some of the items stored in the garage and home theatre will be placed on the layout.

It's a fascinating process to observe. Layouts as complicated as this one aren't moved in the same sense that clubs move modular layouts as finished pieces.

Stay tuned for some pics from Day 0 and Day 1 later today...

David


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Teledoc, my guess is Rocky Mountaineer is swamped and floating on Cloud 9 all at the same time. We will have to wait until he comes back down to earth before we see anything! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Yep, Swamped! Take your time David! You waited a year, we can wait a while!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm sure this will be a sight to see when it's finished!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

We are all looking forward to those progress photos. :thumbsup:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Dave, It was in jest, and I know that the size of the layout, it is more like a week of work. That is just Dunham Studio’s portion of assembly. You have GOT to be getting very Antsy, to see the finished product, as much as the 0 gauge guys here on MTF. I envy those of you, that have the space, and time to dedicate to having layouts. Some enjoy building their own “Empires”, from scratch, and others that have taken the Professionally built Empires, that you had the original plan of what you wanted. I hope it comes out exactly how you envisioned it, and we will await whatever photos you decide to post. :smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2017)

Harry Henning posted some photos of the installation on Facebook. It's not what I expected. I expected it to be like a club modular layout but as David said, it's quite different.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2017)

We are all excited for you David as you have been planning for this for a long time. When you can, photos will b very much appreciated.


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

Harry Henning posted some photos of the installation on Facebook. It's not what I expected. I expected it to be like a club modular layout but as David said, it's quite different

Country Joe can you post a link?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

As a point of reference mine took 4 techs 7 days working 10 hours per day. For delivery we hired 3 professional movers to unload the truck and get the modules to the layout room. That part only took 4 hours. 
I look forward to the pictures as well.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2017)

Bob Phillips said:


> Country Joe can you post a link?


I hope this link works:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...set=pcb.1273999879368185&type=3&theater&ifg=1


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks Country Joe. Oh by the way your missing another snow storm tomorrow.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Which Harry, the son or the father?


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm pretty sure it's the son Harry 111.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's Harry III, he told me he would be up helping put it together. That's a cool sequence, we need to see the next installment.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2017)

Bob Phillips said:


> Thanks Country Joe. Oh by the way your missing another snow storm tomorrow.


I'm glad the link worked. Believe it or not, I don't miss snow at all. I'll watch a Christmas movie, that's enough snow for me.

We had a cold snap here, highs in the low 60s. That's cold enough for me. 



DennyM said:


> Which Harry, the son or the father?





Bob Phillips said:


> I'm pretty sure it's the son Harry 111.


I'm not sure but I think Bob is right, it's Harry the son.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Country Joe said:


> ...I'm not sure but I think Bob is right, it's Harry the son.


If you click on the Facebook link you provided it says Harry A Henning III.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2017)

highvoltage said:


> If you click on the Facebook link you provided it says Harry A Henning III.


Thanks HV. It shows how unobservant I am. :dunno:


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2017)

Thanks for the link, Joe. Beautiful work in progress.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. Installation: Day Zero*

Hi folks,

Sorry for the delay in posting some pics, but it's been an absolutely whirl-wind week!  From preparing the room for Team Dunham's arrival on Monday, to wrapping up the installation of train room track lights BEFORE the full installation crew arrived on Tuesday, and then peeking in during each day's work, it's been quite an emotional roller coaster week... ranging from pure exhaustion to raw childlike enthusiasm.

On Monday of this week -- let's call it Day Zero... Fletcher and Mike, two members of Team Dunham, arrived early in the day to install the custom mural backdrop. The scope of the backdrop includes the 1950's style Lionel Dad & Son with the Lionel name over a sunburst, as well as an art-deco style industrial cityscape featuring steel mills in the spirit of Bethlehem Steel.

The L-shaped backdrop spans two sides of the 37.5' x 15' room. The third side of the room is largely daylight windows of what is a walk-out basement. And the fourth side of the train room contains train shelves as well as a double-doorway to my wife's office. (Yes, she gets to view the train layout looking out of her office! My office is upstairs on the main level of the house. But after the layout's installation, we may swap offices!!! )


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. Installation: Day 1, Early*

The truck containing the Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. arrived in the general area around 6AM on Tuesday, but the actual unloading began at 9AM. Yours truly spent most of the prior evening completing the installation of ceiling track lights for the train room and general last-minute, clean-up tasks. I figured I probably couldn't sleep all that much, so I thought I'd be productive and get those track lights mounted BEFORE the layout was installed.  The downside of all that activity was I only had about 2 hours sleep before the crew began unloading the truck.  (Just can't pull those all-nighters anymore at this age!!!)

The truck unloading was done on a LIFO-basis... that is last-in / first-out. So some of the last items loaded on the truck at Dunham Studios last Friday were the module/platform supports known as gates. These are, in essence, the framework that supports the entire layout. It's an ENTIRELY different way to build "layout benchwork" from the much heavier L-Girder methodology I learned back in my HO days of model railroading. Nonetheless, the superstructure composed of gates and platforms is super strong and rigid... and also helps for unbelievably quiet running of the trains on such a solid structure.

Once all the gates were installed, the layout's framework was adjusted slightly to position the layout EXACTLY in the room for optimal aisle widths and clearances throughout. And then the platforms (i.e., think of them as "modules") were unloaded from the truck one-by-one, beginning with the center platforms to help secure the sturdiness of the entire assembly. The carpentry and materials used are so good, the structure easily supports someone walking on the platforms should maintenance be necessary down the road.

In addition to platforms coming into the train room, nearly ALL the buildings and Lionel operating accessories that sit on the layout platforms were placed in either the adjacent home theatre room also located in the basement, or two of our garage bays on the main level of the house. As I mentioned earlier, this is an extremely critical process, since these items aren't transported ON the actual layout platforms. Rather most EVERYTHING is packed back in their original product boxes to prevent damage during shipping -- including Lionel buildings and accessories, Dept 56 buildings, trackside signals, transformers, arch bridges, elevated track assemblies, etc... 

Additionally, the layout's entire set of fascia boards was also carefully wrapped in blankets for safe transport and temporarily stored in one of our garage bays as well -- to be installed on the last day of the installation. 

Stay tuned for a follow-up "Day 1, Later In the Day" post to see the layout begin to take shape with most of the platforms in place (albeit still minus the mountain scenery and buildings)!!!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Fantastic photos Dave. :appl:


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. Installation: Day 1 (Tuesday), Afternoon/Evening*

After lunch on Tuesday, more platforms were brought into the basement. And you can see the basic layout beginning to take shape. Most of these photos were taken with a fish-eye wide-angle lens at different vantage points in an attempt to capture the entire train room. I'll let the photos speak for themselves. Although if you have questions, just ask... and I'll try to keep an eye on this thread.

At the end of the day, my faithful Black Lab Zuke was given free run of the train room while I was capturing more images after the crew called it a day. And sure enough, he made himself comfortable in what he probably now thinks is one heck of a new dog house.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

A super layout in a super train room.
Love the backdrop, sets the tone for the entire set up.

Is Zuke train broken?

Magic


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Looks like a beautiful layout, Dave. Thanks for posting.


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

WOW is all I can say. What a great train room and layout.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2017)

What a dream come true for you, David. This layout is going to be just beautiful. Another triumph for Dunham Studios. But, I am sure you had a lot to do with the plans for your new layout, so you get a big pat on the back as well.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

looks really nice Ill bet you can hardly wait until crew is gone and you can start to run trains.
as well as the first late night or early morning when just the layout lights are on!
the murals are really nice they capture the magic of a time period. 
now if they were to bring Delia am sure her artistic talents could blend those light switches right into the mural!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Thank you for posting more great photos of your tremendous looking layout. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

It looks fantastic David. You for sure 'full steam ahead'. Was that Harry Henning in some of those photos?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lookin' good Dave, love the new doghouse!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Dave, It looks fantastic so far, and I suppose you are itching to get the trains up on the track, and rolling along. I'm envious of the space you have dedicated to the layout, but hope that it is everything you expected. I know you will have many hours of running trains, in a short amount of time. Great photos of all the work that is going into building your DREAM LAYOUT. Enjoy it, and have a very happy holiday season.:appl::appl::appl::appl:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dave just dropped by to pick up a couple of signal relays, I saw more pictures. He can expect a visit after he works all the bugs out and I get moved. I'll bring some stuff to run and we'll have a party.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2017)

Question, it looks like a high end carpet used for the grass effect and roadbed. If not, David can you share with us what it is?


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## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

I'd like to know what the neighbors thought when a full-size semi showed up in front of your house! Other than moving trucks, that just does not often happen in a residential area.

The pictures and all of the people involved during installation really emphasize the scale of work that goes into something like this. When you think of how many months and years it can take to build something like that on your own, just trying to assemble something like that within a few days is a monumental tasking. No wonder they had to send in an army.

The logistics of this is so fascinating.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2017)

David, the new layout is looking very good even though it's not done yet.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. Installation: Day 2*

Hi folks, it's now Monday morning Dec 18th... and we're all still recovering from a very busy week! Team Dunham departed the scene very late Friday evening -- performing quite the amazing task of installing a custom layout in under a week's time. It's truly a fascinating process to watch.

Picking up from my last post, here are 10 more iPhone pics from last Wednesday when mountain scenery and the Department 56 village came to life, as well as the control panel.

The layout is wired with command-control in mind -- either with the DCS remote, Legacy remote, or iPad. However the control panel is nice for visitors to "see" the layout schematic as well as providing the convenience of selecting programmed turnout routes with the push of a button.

Each Dept 56 building was re-packed in its own original box for the trip back to our residence. So each individual building had to be placed onto it's special labelled location. If you look closely, you'll see where each building lot is labeled on the empty "city map". Normally, Dept 56 buildings come with their own 110-volt light(s) with power cord. However, the layout uses over 30 buildings, so the decision was made early on to light the village using LED's -- which should also help with maintenance down the road, since they're won't be a need to frequently replace the regular 110-volt bulbs when they burn out. Those posts you see sticking up from the Dept 56 platform contain the LED's, and the post location is customized to fit into the hole at the bottom of each Dept 56 building. Definitely a LOT of planning here!

More progress photos to follow...

David


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

What a fantastic layout. Nice trick on the LED poles. I'm going to steal that idea for sure. Can't wait to see video of it all running. What a great Christmas present.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Wow! Looks great, David. Can't wait to see the finished product. Please post a video of the completed layout running.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

I agree, it is all fantastic! Thank you for sharing the photographs, and I too am looking forward to seeing more when you have time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. Installation: Day 3*

Thursday's installment (Day 3) brings more operating Lionel accessories, the triple-span Hellgate Bridge, the upper section of track around the Dept 56 village, and all the Korber Kits (painted to match the tinplate Lionel Factory building's color scheme) onto the layout. The little tabs of blue tape on the layout carpet indicate the turnout number and the location of an accessory/building.

Toward the end of this sequence of photos, you'll see Fletcher installing a piece of track that spans a module gap -- in this case a module with the double-track Atlas-O bridge (painted). There were probably a few dozen pieces of such track throughout the layout.

And you'll also see Mike doing some soldering work with one of the signals. These too were removed from the layout prior to shipping and boxed -- all in order to avoid any mishaps during transportation. Fortunately all went very smoothly in this regard, but it does add some time to installing the layout at the client's residence.

Lastly, Barbara Dunham enjoyed adding some finishing touches to many scenes around the layout. She brought along an entire suitcase of scenery touch-up bottles, paints and tools for the task at hand. Amazing!!! 

Now thing's are REALLY starting to take shape!!!  Enjoy...


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2017)

David, thanks for the great photos of your layout coming together. It has to be the best Christmas gift ever!

P.S. I also would love to see a short video of the layout in action.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

More great photographs!! Thank you again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Absolutely fantastic :appl::appl:. Keep the updates coming. :thumbsup:


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks so much everyone for the kind words and well wishes. It was quite the whirl-wind week, with lots occurring and excitement was never in short supply. We even had a couple of 2-3 inch snowfalls during the week to make it feel like Christmas w/o throwing too much of a monkey wrench into the works!

Now to answer a few posts from earlier in the thread...




gunrunnerjohn said:


> Dave just dropped by to pick up a couple of signal relays....


John, swapping out that board did the trick. So thank you very much for being around to supply the replacement. You are most welcome to visit whenever you settle into your new home, or even sooner if you need a break from packing and moving! 





Passenger Train Collector said:


> Question, it looks like a high end carpet used for the grass effect and roadbed. If not, David can you share with us what it is?


Brian, that is indeed a high-end, thinly ribbed carpet. And I used somewhat of a variation of that on the room's walls (both in the train room and our home theatre). Between the unbelievably strong plywood base used to create the modules, along with the carpet underlayment and cork roadbed, as well as the wall fabric, the layout is SUPER QUIET. All you hear are the Railsounds of the locomotive and an ever-so-subtle clickety-clak when wheels cross the rail joints -- just as things should be. I couldn't believe how quiet this layout runs. I'm fairly certain the roadbed is actually HO gauge cork roadbed that is treated with a mix of textured paints to give a simulated ballast appearance. But because this is an O-Gauge layout, THREE sections of roadbed are used to provide adequate width (instead of the normal two sections). A ground-plane brown wire runs beneath the track disguised nicely between two of the roadbed sections.





towdog said:


> I'd like to know what the neighbors thought when a full-size semi showed up in front of your house! Other than moving trucks, that just does not often happen in a residential area.
> 
> The pictures and all of the people involved during installation really emphasize the scale of work that goes into something like this. When you think of how many months and years it can take to build something like that on your own, just trying to assemble something like that within a few days is a monumental tasking. No wonder they had to send in an army.
> 
> The logistics of this is so fascinating.


Yes. And that's why the truck parked in a relative local shopping center between 6AM - 9AM, until the installation crew arrived. We live in a very low-traffic neighborhood to due the street ending in a cul-desac. So the truck really didn't adversely affect anybody.

The heavy-duty workday was really Tuesday, when the truck was completely unloaded. The layout's framework, support gates and modular platforms were brought directly into the train room. Whereas all the other items (i.e., Dept 56 buildings, operating accessories, signals, bridges, Korber kits, and trains used to test the layout at Dunham Studios) were unloaded into our garage bays and the home-theatre that is adjacent to the train room. 

It was definitely a work-in-progress week to say the least!!!  But the crew was highly professional... tackling each task in an orderly manner, which eventually brought the other spaces of the house back into a semblance of order. My wife was unbelievably understanding throughout the entire process!  

I've gotta step away for a few hours now, but I'll try to post Friday's photos representing the final phase of the installation later tonight. So please stay tuned...

David


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2017)

The finish line was just in time for Christmas. What a wonderful gift to the family as it will bring many moments of pleasure.

Clarke and Company did a fantastic job.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. Installation: Day 4... The Finished Product*

Speaking of the finish line, Brian.... here ya go.... I captured these quick iPhone photos late Friday evening after Team Dunham signed off on another successful project!!! 

David


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Allegheny & Pacific Rwy Co. Installation: Day 4... Some Nighttime Scenes*

I still have some programming to do for the track lighting's blue nighttime effects, but here's an initial cut at some evening scenes...

David


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Absolutely Gor-ge-ous! Enjoy your new layout, David. You have something to be proud of. And don't forget to post a video if you can.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Great looking layout, the blue lighting effect is spectacular.

Bill


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Absolutely fantastic job from Dunham Studios.......Now it’s time to PLAY!!!! I hope it is everything you wished for, and will have many hours of running trains. Enjoy it, and have a very happy Christmas.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

*WOW!*

Talk about cool! Very nice Dave, can't wait to see this in person! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2017)

The design has a beautiful balance. From the industrial area, to the city and then on to the mountain range, all wonderfully executed. The layout captures your interest and the details Clarke and team created are superb.

I am sure the vision for this design came from you David and you get a big Hooray for your part.

Thanks for sharing this project with all of us on the MTF. Our membership is made up of quality folks who appreciate the dreams and ideas of it's members.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

"WHEW" Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. :appl::appl::appl:


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

David,
How many trains can you run at once? I count four.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

PatKn said:


> David,
> How many trains can you run at once? I count four.


Pat, you are correct in that there are 4 independently powered loops. 

Two of the loops are physically independent: an upper-level figure-8 that rides above the village and through the mountains, and a lower-level loop that rides along the canal and over a series of arched trestles in front of the Standard Gauge shelves (haven't posted photos of that yet). The other two "mainline loops" are connected via crossovers, so trains can move freely between both loops. The inner loop provides access to a variety of industrial sidings for switching operations, as well a passing siding and two reverse loops.

The layout is wired for command control, so theoretically more than 4 trains can be operating. However, when just sitting back relaxing and watching the trains roll... 4 is the number.

David


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

_Those murals really make the layout and the room...._


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Avid, we are just seeing this after being out for a few days. Congratulations, this is truly spectacular. What a beautiful layout and just in time for Christmas!

Look forward to seeing more as you continue. We have some questions about your lighting; will send you an e-mail.

Thanks for sharing this with everyone.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Hi folks,

Thanks again for all the kind words regarding this layout. It was a long time in the making. And truth be told, it started with a discussion of having Dunham Studios build a custom backdrop around an existing layout I had started years ago, but never got around to quite "finishing".  And the rest, as they say, is history. 

I will say this though... the year seemed to go by in a flash, as it seems like only yesterday I drove up to Dunham Studios in a U-haul cargo van that was fully packed with most of the train-related items you now see in the finished photos. But that really was 9 months ago, and now all those EMPTY boxes are back in our residence... this time in the attic, which is where I hope they'll stay for a very long time. 

If you'd like to see more photos of everything coming together from truck-unloading to finished product, Barbara Dunham has posted FOUR Facebook postings in chronological order with a subset of photos she captured throughout the week, along with the photos I've already posted here. Just remember... Facebook shows the last post first. So just scan down to the post she labeled as "1", and scroll back up from there to see the week as it unfolded with posts 2, 3, and 4. 

In some ways, I'm still picking my jaw up off the floor when I realize the tremendous feat that Team Dunham pulled off in such a relatively short period of time. Even just thinking about the load-out at their studio on Dec 8th where they essentially knocked down a completed layout in their studio, loaded it out into a 53' trailer, and put it all back together again in less than a week's time... Just boggles my mind!!! 

So it's now just after midnight in the early hours of Friday, 12/22. And it's hard to believe that an entire week has already gone by since Team Dunham wrapped up their installation late Friday evening, Dec 15th.  Absolutely amazing.

Hopefully this Facebook link works... as Facebook and I don't always get along well. Enjoy!!! And Merry Christmas to everyone!!! Have a safe Holiday week with your family and friends. Wishing everyone the best for Happy and Healthy 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/dunhamstudios/posts/?ref=notif


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Link worked perfectly. Great looking photos.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2017)

*"And Merry Christmas to everyone!!! Have a safe Holiday week with your family and friends. Wishing everyone the best for Happy and Healthy 2018."*

And the same to you and your family, David. Thanks so much for sharing your special project with all of us!!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's truly a masterpiece Dave! I'm going to have to come up and get some inspiration for mine, lots of really neat stuff going on there.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

I looked the photographs over, David. It is really terrific to see come apart and back together again! Congratulations! Merry Christmas!!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

What a great job to have building layouts. David that is one seriously nice layout.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Rocky Mountianeer
now that you have been running your layout is there anything you might have done differently?


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

empire builder said:


> Rocky Mountianeer
> now that you have been running your layout is there anything you might have done differently?


Good question. 

I don't think Dunham Studios could have done a better job -- given the layout design I presented them with a year-and-a-half ago. In short, they FAR exceeded my expectations in EVERY way possible... not the least of which was the fact that we entered into the agreement largely on a good-faith handshake regarding the detail level that they'd deliver. I can probably count on 2 fingers the number of people in this world I'd do business with in that trusting fashion.

Now having said that, there are of course compromises that need to be made when undertaking a project of this magnitude. The layout is roughly 32' in length and between 10' and 12' in width depending on where you measure. A very healthy layout size indeed. But in O-Gauge, that layout size is not gonna delivery EVERYTHING one might want... namely, features like an engine terminal, turntable with roundhouse, or a large passenger terminal, freight yard, or staging yard. I would have needed the entire basement to implement all of those components. And with that, the cost of the project could easily have tripled!!!  Truth be told, I really didn't want to give up the space occupied by our home theatre and a nice-size sitting area adjacent to the layout to get the space needed for those other features. And my better half would have likely nixed that idea anyway!!! 

Whether I would have built this layout myself, or whether I had Dunham Studios do it... the size is what it is. And in that regard, the compromises are very real. I decided going into this project knowing that the layout would have two isolated loops that are essentially there for continuous running and added 3-dimensional interest on lower and upper levels of the layout. The other two loops reside on what I call the main operating level, and that's where the trains can either run continuously or simulate real railroad operations both in terms of mainline running as well as a large industrial switching area. But like I mentioned earlier, the layout has no engine terminal or freight/passenger yard. So to mitigate that, we included eight 12' aluminum shelves (in addition to the built-in Standard Gauge display shelves) for locomotives and rolling stock to be rotated onto the layout. But as many of you "operators" know, a hidden staging yard can go a long way toward achieving a hands-off approach to bringing trains onto the layout to do what they do best. So we'll see if that's _really_ needed down the road.

Even as it is today (i.e., just over a month after the layout was delivered), I've already added a few things to personalize the layout. Little things for sure, but they've been fun to plan and implement. I purchased a third DCS AIU, and all the wiring I'm doing to implement a few additional accessories is being routed through that AIU to keep my wiring well-defined from the work that Dunham Studios did. Just makes things cleaner that way. Some of these additions include a Lionel tugboat positioned in the canal; the new Broadway Ltd Imports water tank (which didn't even exist when I designed the layout plans); a switch tower with a grade crossing protected by an MTH cantilever crossing signal using MTH's IR detectors; a small power sub-station with the Lionel operating Smoke Stack accessory I purchased years ago; and a siding on the lower level in the shadows of the triple-span Hellgate Bridge that contains Lionel's "track gang" accessory and enough track to hold a Legacy crane/boom car along with a cool piece of MTH rolling stock that holds an O-72 ScaleTrax Turnout... giving the overall appearance of the track crew adding new track to the railroad. There are certainly some artistic licenses I took implementing this, but overall the effect I wanted was achieved in spades.  Some of these new additions are still work-in-progress, but that's part of the fun.

As for the "detail level" of the layout overall? I couldn't have asked for more. Team Dunham did an absolutely fabulous job at implementing enough detail, so that my brain can connect the dots to simulate even greater detail in my mind. For example, I never would have thought that the tinplate industrial area could have turned out as good as it did using a base of ribbed green carpet. But that carpet base did WONDERS for deadening sound as well as providing a good scenic base for the areas where extra detail was added using Woodland Scenics turf and grass foam around vignettes that included trees and other scenic details. And when I saw how well the Korber Kits turned out painted in a color-scheme to match the tinplate Lionel Factory, I couldn't believe my eyes. The other stunning piece of detail is the custom base that was produced for the triple-span Hellgate Bridges. Lionel couldn't have done better if they provided a base with the bridge straight from the factory. And need I even mention the Dept 56 village treatment nestled amidst the magnificently carved mountains? All of these features are a testament to the Dunham Studios craftsmanship that was delivered without even specifying that level of detail aside from informal conversations. It was simply part of what Team Dunham does when you commission them to build a layout.

Even the issue of whether to include ballast or a simulated effect of ballast was handed splendidly AND within my budget. HO scale cork roadbed was used between the MTH ScaleTrax and either green or grey carpet throughout the layout. The cork was treated with textured paint to simulate ballast without the need and expense (largely labor) of using real ballast. And an extra cork strip was used between the two beveled strips, so a ground-plane wire could run underneath the track throughout the entire layout. Very effective -- especially for potentially challenging areas of the layout like the triple-span Hellgate Bridge which is entirely tinplate. I think Clarke was so happy with the simulated ballast result (as I was too), that he mentioned to me he plans to offer that option even for clients who _want_ ultra-realistic layouts. Who knows? Down the road, I may choose to ballast the layout myself if the mood really strikes me. But for now, the trains are running... the "simulated look" does the trick for me... and this layout is a wonderful stage for the trains to strut their stuff -- which is more than I can say was happening for the past 20 years!  

Bottom line, I'm thrilled with the layout as delivered. And I love the fact that there are still some things I can do to personalize the layout even further. As for MAJOR projects like adding a staging area in another portion of the basement... well, only time will tell. But on the plus side, now having a layout like this that can run 4 trains easily plus having storage shelves along the cabinetry as well as on a wall in the train room, it's a big-time GOVERNOR with respect to purchasing new trains. Without an operating layout for years, I was prone to buy trains and store some of them away for that future dream layout -- which essentially had no bounds whatsoever in my own imagination. Now there's a bonafide limit, and that is a good thing! 

David


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