# Restoring these 50s Lionel Trains



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

I am looking to get this set up and running, I just inherited it when my father passed on, his and my uncle's sets are mixed together. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157623986948302/ 

I plan on scrubbing the track with a green scrub pad and water, and cleaning, lubing and oiling the engine cars, is that a good start? Should I just take them in to a professional? Do the transformers need to be looked at? I know they were run in the 70s, but beyond that, I don't think they've run for 30+ years and are not operational currently.


----------



## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Wow, what a collection! You have a nice little fortune on your hands


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fizgig,

That's a great set there.

The track doesn't look too bad. I'd shy away from the water, and stick with 3M ScotchBrite pads ... green for medium work, brown if you need to get more aggressive.

The biggest question regarding the transformers is safety, especially in way of the power cord. Check carefully to make sure it's not frayed, brittle, etc.

Our local O expert T-Man has an excellent compilation of his tutorial tips ... track cleaning, engine tune ups, etc. See this link, and scroll down a few posts to see his "encylopedia" ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2355

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

I have no idea what they are worth and just want to get them working, it would mean a lot to the family.

I'll check out those links, thanks. I don't even know what all the handles and levers do, the cords are fine, surprisingly soft even for their age, the wires to the track are brittle though, probably need new ones.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Use Wd40 instead of water. That VW was made in 1948 & 49.
The 1044 was made from 1957 through 1969. That looks in good shape? It doesn't work?
Whats the engine #? Looks like the wheels need a little cleaning and most likely the engine will need some cleaning too. Yes check the power cords on the transformers as most came with a cloth cord. You can by a nice heavy duty one from your home improvement store. 
Theres a lot of threads in here to help you. And don't be afraid to ask. It's not that hard to get most of the stuff operational. The transformers you might need help with.
More later I got no time now.
T-Man I am sure will help out a lot do a search of his threads. T stands for teacher.:thumbsup:

Welcome to the site too.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fizgig,

Some more info re: your Lionel VW transformer ... bio, detailed service info, and a little video talking about service repair (for a ZW which is a big brother to the VW):

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_vw_transformer.htm

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=670

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=630

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LC1R_EhPdY

One other safety point of note ... VW transformers were built with an internal circuit breaker to prevent accidental heat and/or short circuit overload. (Some old transformers were not!) If you attempt to use this, you (or someone) should check to ensure that the circuit breaker is still functioning OK.

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

What first caught my eye was the two engines. They have class and are above average as engines go. Keep the 12 wheel tender and guard it. You have a lot of boxes, keep them in good shape. Store the trains in something else. The engine shells are brittle try not to break off any marker lights. Overall everything appears to be in very good shape with paperwork that is attractive to collectors. Yes you can clean the surface rust. The small transformer should work fine, the VW is older and more complicated.The condition of everthing is what stands out.
Congratulations!


----------



## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

nice stuff


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

After sleeping on the subject I have a few more suggestions. 

The 1957 manual has some good information that you can use. Copy what you need to reference and place the material in clear sleeves and a binder. Like valued comic books. 

The next step is your mechanical/electrical sense. Do you feel confident messy with a family heirloom? Keep in mind this set has value and you have never worked on it. The immediate problem is screws. Will it come apart. At this point you do not want to break them off. All too often people over tighten screws. On the other hand if you get it running you will have to be aware that screws get loose. 


Electrically you have to know about e units. Yours are old and subject to failure. If you apply current it is possible to burn the engine out. So what to do? 
You did will well, to contact us. If I may suggest going on E bay and for 30 bucks find a nice used 2026,2018 or a 2016 2-6-2 engine and practice on that. In the long run it may be cheep insurance. To start your adventure in the hobby, start with a runner.
Just something to keep in mind.

The value part. The TCA has a grading system. Your best bet is to contact them for an apprasil. The tender I mentioned recently sold on e bay for 160.In better condtion with a box is more. That is just one piece. Your cattle accessory has very little scratches I am almost embarrassed to show you mine. Then again, you can get a price guide and dream.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

Thanks everyone, I'm a software developer by trade, I take computers apart and put them back together, and an avid mountain biker, I often have to degrease and lube up my bike, I'm pretty confident I can do some basic maintenance but the tougher stuff like wiring or winding I might need to take in to be fixed. 

As far as I can tell, both transformers work, I probably should not have done this after what I've read since, but I tested the trains on the track when I got them home, the big transformer powers up and the smoke stack on the older engine was smoking, and it was buzzing a bit, trying to run. I should have cleaned and lubed them. 

The manual says what to lube and where to add drops of oil, any recommendations on brands or should I just go to the hobby shop? anyone know what the top hatch in the milk truck is for?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

For oil there are a lot of options. You don't want joints to squeak and the most important is the ends of the spinning armature. Labelle oil is high class for trains at the LHS. I have luck with ATF and lithium grease for gears. Motor or 3 in 1 is also fine. WD 40 is more of a cleaner than lubricator for trains.You want to remove old grease build up and start thinking about tooling. If you need a reason to buy a dremel you have one now. Don't forget you are trying to start an electric motor that hasn't run in 30 years. So read up here and take your time. By all means visit your LHS and see if he has an inexpensive engine you can run to check out the track and transformer. That way you can enjoy something while taking care of your beauties. I don't even own one of those two engines. The motors are a little different but theoretically they are the same. You are in a very unusual situation, I am glad you want to develope your interest in the trains. That we can help with.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*OLD and Worn*

To place things into perspective here is an old worn 2016. COmplete with worn paint and a broken marker light.










Not all accessories are in very good condition.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

Oh wow, this stuff is in great shape. They used to play with them all the time too, and I've seen the state of some of their other toys (old west tin towns, etc.) that are worse than your corral. Some of the track is pretty corroded/rusty, but most is in good shape, none of it is bent. I wonder if the actions on many of the cars are in working order.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

fizgig said:


> Oh wow, this stuff is in great shape. They used to play with them all the time too, and I've seen the state of some of their other toys (old west tin towns, etc.) that are worse than your corral. Some of the track is pretty corroded/rusty, but most is in good shape, none of it is bent. I wonder if the actions on many of the cars are in working order.



What's the # of the engines?

Looks to be #6.. something?


----------



## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

big ed said:


> What's the # of the engines?
> 
> Looks to be #6.. something?


He has a 646 Santa Fe Hudson and a 681 PRR Turbine...


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Boston&Maine said:


> He has a 646 Santa Fe Hudson and a 681 PRR Turbine...


OK, The two engines alone would bring over $500. :thumbsup:
Probably a lot more with the boxes.

That's if they were in great shape.:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fizgig,

Following the excellent comments above, I suggest you start perhaps by simply making a careful inventory of what you have (inclusive of boxes, paper manuals, etc.) and posting here on this thread. We can help with a little history as to what components might have come with what sets, the specific years that each might have been available, etc.

You're really very fortunate to have all of this in apparently such good / servicable condition.

Regards,

TJ


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

forgive my terminology:

engines:
646 Santa Fe Hudson w/box
681 PRR Turbine no box

tenders:
2671W w/box
2046W w/box

transformers:
VW 150 watt no box
1044 90 watt with box

cars, all with boxes, milk car is the only box in bad shape:
6457 Caboose
6357 caboose
3469X Automatic dump car
3361X Operating Lumber Car
3424 Operating Brakeman Car
6555 Tank Car
3472 Operating Milk Car
6464-525 Box Car (I was told this one is good?)
3656 Operating Cattle Car
6462 Gondola Car (box has 125 around the logo for some reason)
6462 Red Gondola Car

track:
18 curved
24 straight
2 gauge switches no. 022
2 x O Gauge remote control track set
2 x Lockons

other:
two bottles smoke pellets
various cardboard billboard signs
2 street lamps, one broken
2 plastic trays (dump holders?)
2 plastic railroad signs with white swivels, no idea what you call them, they're on my flickr
plugs and wires
2 022c controllers
1 box cows for cattle cars (3656-9)

manuals:
1956-57 train manual
1044 transformer manual
switch gauge manual
remote control track set manual
1957 Lionel Catalog
681 manual
remote lumbar car manual

pictures of everything here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157623986948302/


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

Here's the billboards, they're kinda neat:


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

fizgig said:


> forgive my terminology:
> 
> engines:
> 646 Santa Fe Hudson w/box
> ...


I can't get into a lot now but just wanted to say that I seen some empty smoke bottles go for over $50 bucks on e bay.
All depends on the bottle shape and year.
Bill boards the same all depends on what they are.
A few cars according to the guide prices, just an average could go for more or less all depends on the buyer.


6464-525 red white letters =$60 in excellent shape
maroon white letters $530!
3424 Operating Brakeman Car =$60 in x shape

Got to go....... later


edit.....I didn't see the billboards before I posted this. You got the stands that they mount in?


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

re: sign holders, I might, I'm not sure what they look like.

here's the smoke pellets and a bag of assorted things, train cement, lubricant, the manual's envelope, light bulbs, etc.









(this is the way it was stored, not my doing)


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Telltale poles*

The telltale pole and the cam plate work for your brakeman car. Basicallly the guy ducks. Excuse me the cam plate is needed for the giraffe car. The pole is a telltale sign to see if a train has the tunnel clearance to make it through.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

I just looked at the giraffe, brakeman, cob, and hobo cars, sweet. Any idea that black sign is called?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The only two black anythings are the cam plate for the giraffes and the tower for the Hobo. In the video he uses a clear can plate. Am i missing something?


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

the tower is what i mean, it comes with the hobo car then?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Yes it should but I have not seen any towers at shows. I have seen some of the cars though. I don't have one but they look like fun and modern version exist.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

progress so far: The tender's whistles both work and the VW seemingly works as that's what made the whistles go, I cleaned the track a bit with a scotch bright pad. I cleaned up the 681, got all the rust off with just a medium bristle toothbrush, degreased the front and rear trucks that were caked, dusted it, and greased and lubed where necessary. Still will not work, just sits on the tracks like it's not powered up. There were no obvious disconnected wires or bad solders on the electrical components. The middle section (commuter?) is kind of an oily dark red-brown instead of copper colored, the motor wires are bright copper but a bit dirty, and it looks like someone put grease (Lionel Lubricant) in the oil reserves. From here I'm planning on taking this one in to get looked at, buying new lockons as these are all rusty, and buying new wires (this is low voltage right, can you just use speaker wire?).


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Speaker wire is fine ... 22 gauge OK ... 18 gauge better.

Can you wire brush (and/or Dremel brush) the Lockons to get them servicable?

"Goo Gone" on the end of a Q-tip works great for removing old grease, cleaning exposed portion of copper armature, etc.

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Getting it serviced may not be a bad idea, otherwise we have to go with a step by step with your pictures.You would have to show the reverse unit and remove the top of the motor to see the brushes and armature. Just tell the guy it needs a cleaning amd you have no reason to suspect something is broken. 

Your reverse unit has to cycle, that means the coil moves a pawl to rotate a drum that changes the direction. 

The armature has a copper surface that gets grooves over time and needs to be smoothed out. The brushes get gummed with old oil and the hoders nees to be cleaned. It's the same for any engine.

You can view other threads and it covers the same thing and you can see what is done.

Otherwise it sound like you are making progress.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

Good news, I got the 646 working, the tender, and the brakeman car. 

Video coming shortly, it's just a temp setup.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fizgig,

Congratulations! You must be thrilled! But jeez ... throttle down there a bit, huh? You're scaring me at that speed ... I'd hate to see a centrifugal force win the battle and put a big scratch in your old beauties.

I ventured into the O thing a few months ago, with an attempt to resurrect a 1958 Lionel set that had been in my family's basement for years and years. It took a little coaxing, but I think my smile registered on the Richter Scale when that loco fired up and first made it around my test track. An awesome feeling.

Keep up the nice work ... you're making your father's legacy quite proud!

TJ


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

haha, it wasn't going that fast until i grabbed the camera, must have worked some of the gunk out I couldn't get to. i had a smile a mile wide when it worked, i felt pretty defeated when I couldn't get the other one going.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

fizgig said:


> haha, it wasn't going that fast until i grabbed the camera, must have worked some of the gunk out I couldn't get to. i had a smile a mile wide when it worked, i felt pretty defeated when I couldn't get the other one going.


If you didn't all ready you should still take the shell off and clean up the inside.

From the looks of the outside, the inside will need some cleaning too.
Yours had some rust right? Or am I thinking about someone else's engine.

Unless I am mistakened my giraffe car it ducks, instead of snapping the head back as yours is doing. Mine is yellow yours looks white.
Whats the # on it?


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

3424 is the number. I cleaned both engines inside and out but I didn't touch a lot of the electrical parts, don't really know enough about them to mess with. 










I think I'll still take them both in to get looked at and have the electrical parts checked out, I've seen rates of $25/hr, is that pretty common?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

25? All I can say is that sercivemen for anything get 60 or more. How can you complain? Tell him, I will find a guy for 2O.? Good luck.

Once running, the speed may increase they will run better.

What's next? 

I couldn't find any really helpful threads. Most of the engines are prewar in the beginning, I suggest you look way back3 or 4 pages and see other examples of long stored engines. If you skim the threads some pictures of the e units and motors will show up.

Congrats on getting the Berk running. The transformers work, so just keep an eye out for cracked/exposed wiring.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

I've been told by a friend that knows a thing or two about trains to not appear like a total rube or they'll figure it out and rip you off on the repairs (he was actually in O Gauge Railroading in Dec. 1997, Kevin Mangan is his name, his dad and grandpa were in it too, but he's been out of it for a while), just trying to get a feel for costs. 

Next up I want to see if I can get the milk car and cattle car working, I will probably lube them up really well and scrub off anything that isn't supposed to be there first, anything else I should be on the lookout for? I also need to figure out coupling/uncoupling and the switches.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You are ahead of me on the cattle car. I am sure you will get yours working before I can. The old milk cars are a pain I have two they work but not to expectations. I mainly played with the adjustment of the main spring. The cans didn't cooperate either. Switches we can help there. I never checked my couplers for operation I am not sure I really want to at this point. I can live without it. With one engine running, maybe take a break and read some more. It took me months to figure out basic information, hence You probably have absorbed weeks of that already. IF you tinker, the Greenberg sevice manual is affordable and has the necessary diagrams. Naturallly we can help too. Here we appreciate the fact that you are comfortable here. We do aim to please but I have learned not to exceed my expectations.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

fizgig said:


> 3424 is the number. I cleaned both engines inside and out but I didn't touch a lot of the electrical parts, don't really know enough about them to mess with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I couldn't see in your video that it was a man not a giraffe ducking. 

Never mind.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fizgig,

Excellent ongoing advice from T-Man above. I'll echo his suggestion to grab yourself a copy of Greenberg's manual ... enormously helpful diagrams, specs. Also, you can see lots of service info /specs for individual locos, cars online at this site:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm

While you may not yet feel comfortable doing in-depth under-the-hood servicing just yet (motor tune ups, etc.), I highly encourage you to explore the inner working of the various components as much as you dare -- carefully, of course. These 1940/50 old-school mechanics were quite elegant in what they accomplished, yet also simple enough that the methodologies and logic behind the gizmos starts to make clear sense once you have a chance to look carefully at the components. "Ahhh ... this is connected to that, and this do-hickey engages into that gizmo ..."

I was 100% clueless on all of this a few months ago. But I dove under the hood anyway, and with the incredible help of T-Man and many others on the forum, I feel like I've learned quite a bit about the mechanics of these locos/motors/etc, and have (just enough) confidence to begin tackling some of my own repairs.

So go to it!

Best of success,

TJ


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

i played around with the milk car, it works, but like you said, not the way it should. A can was in the wrong way to start, and then it kept jamming up, I rubbed down the jugs until they were shiny and they stopped sticking to the milkman and each other, and I got a clean run out of it, 6 for 6, but they shoot all the way to the back of the platform instead of being placed on it.

my lumber loader doesn't work well, just vibrates some times, other times kicks up a bit and dumps the logs, but just barely. The engine is going but i don't think it's turning the gears properly or something, that part looks sealed.

I'll check that book out, I've not had a ton of luck finding how-tos on the internet, this site has been the best resource so far.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Yes I was disappointed when I started. So when I got into it I decided to show how with pictures. It took a while but now as you can see We have some happy campers here. Strangely we are a diverse group interests wise, but we respect that and use it to our advantage. I am sure you can find a niche here. 

The can polishing sounds like a good idea. Need to remember that. The vibrator should run constantly for the loader.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

here's an update, i did get that Greenberg's book but most of it matches instruction sheets and manuals I already have so i was a little disappointed, i'd rather have a book with some pictures actually showing cleaning commuters and replacing brushes.

i took apart, cleaned out, and put back together both locomotives, both work now with lights/smoke units, both E-units work now to make it go forward-neutral-reverse-neutral, i got the milk car working, left and right switches i cleaned up and they work, the remote control track sections work, had to rewire the cabooses as the insulation was all frayed, i replaced the base bulb contact on one of them, and those light up, the dump car dumps great, the lumber car is kinda jenky but eventually works (that's the only real problem i can't figure out, it's riveted closed though), both tender whistles work although one makes a grinding sound sometimes if the speed is slow (thus low power, i tried cleaning that out better, didn't help, maybe it always worked that way?), cleaned up all the rusty track. I tried scotch brite, stiff brush, vinegar soak, CLR soak, finally what worked best was some Brasso and a brush, finished it off with WD40 to keep new rust from forming. I cleaned up all the cars I mentioned as well, I also bought that submarine car off ebay on a whim (http://i.ebayimg.com/23/!Bs,1sIwCWk~$(KGrHqIH-EQEvDFiPepWBL3)Epy)b!~~_35.JPG).

Next up the cattle car and cleaning/lubing the rest of the cars, then setting up more track and running both trains at once. Should be ready in time for Xmas easily. I've been looking at giraffe and elephant cars, track cleaning cars, moe and joe lumber loaders, I'd like to add those to the collection at the right price and condition.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fizgig,

WOW! Excellent cleanup / tuneup progress on your end. And buying stuff, too? The collection / obsession begins!

Good luck, and do keep us posted ... this is a really nice vintage setup you have, with important family history/legacy. Very nice to see you investing the time go give it such careful t.l.c.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

Here's a new video:





and pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4693842881/in/set-72157623986948302/


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

fizgig said:


> Here's a new video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The pictures work but the video didn't.

Never mind it is there now. I must have answered to soon.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I can see that you are going to need more track!

You caught the train bug.:laugh:

I see one big problem with your track.


You got to build a table and get it off the floor!

How much room do you have to "play" with?
Do you have an attic or basement?

I like your engines.:thumbsup: Cars too, looking good.:thumbsup:

Edit.....

You should work on your horn blowing some too.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

I had to edit the video link. This is the basement, the wife is going to kill me if I don't move it somewhere, it's a mess, might have to get a board and create a design/layout. I have an attic but it's like 3' high (Cape Cod style house). 

I thought I had a ton of track, I had to buy 4 corners to finish this layout and it still seems cramped, I am still making sure everything works before it gets a permanent home. I have to rewire one of the remote control track segments, the insulation is coming off like it's made from rock candy and the wires started touching each other, just picked up the new wire yesterday.

Anyone in Michigan, Merri-Seven trains in Livonia at 7 mile and Merriman is great, they even had a missing ramp for my cattle corral for $12 and a spring for my milk car door, and the guys really know their stuff.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

fizgig said:


> I had to edit the video link. This is the basement, the wife is going to kill me if I don't move it somewhere, it's a mess, might have to get a board and create a design/layout. I have an attic but it's like 3' high (Cape Cod style house).
> 
> I thought I had a ton of track, I had to buy 4 corners to finish this layout and it still seems cramped, I am still making sure everything works before it gets a permanent home. I have to rewire one of the remote control track segments, the insulation is coming off like it's made from rock candy and the wires started touching each other, just picked up the new wire yesterday.
> 
> Anyone in Michigan, Merri-Seven trains in Livonia at 7 mile and Merriman is great, they even had a missing ramp for my cattle corral for $12 and a spring for my milk car door, and the guys really know their stuff.


I got a cape cod house too. My attic is the same. Your house must have been dormer-ed out like mine.
I am the King of the basement and garage in my house. She can have the rest.
You got room for the layout in another spot? It looks like you could fit that on a 4'x8' sheet of plywood.
But like I said I think you caught the train bug, you might want to go a little bigger from the start.

Don't be afraid....tell her who's King!:laugh:


----------



## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey fizgig, 

Those are really cool smokers... All of your restoration work really pays off in the satisfaction of seeing things work again.:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Don't be afraid....tell her who's King!:laugh:



(But just make sure you clean the oil and lube stains off of the white carpet, first!!!) :laugh:


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

I have a 3 month old, he's pretty much in charge right now  

Thanks for all the great feedback and help everyone.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

OK, I pretty much have everything cleaned up and operating well, but I have some questions:

1. the cattle car - this works but often the cows tip over and get stuck, there's probably no fixing this, I've tried realigning and playing with the vibration screw and voltage which didn't help, but any tips?

2. i took apart the milk car to clean it up, add a missing door spring, and lube everything. now if I give it enough juice to open the doors up, it shoots the milk cans practically across the room, if i try to dial it down, it gets jammed, doesn't load a can up for delivery, or doesn't get the doors open. not sure there's a fix for this one either.

3. the switches - work great if i stop the train, give it some juice and flip the switch, but if i try to run the train at normal speed, there's not enough juice to get the track all the way over for the automatic non-derailing action, it gets maybe 90% over, is this normal? should I wire it up directly to the transformer?

4. the street lamps, neither seem to work, seems odd, could be the bulbs, but i tried a switch bulb I know that works in them, neither worked, maybe the frosted bulbs have a slightly different base? 

I did end up getting a cheap scout on ebay, i'm really going to take that apart and try my hand at replacing brushes and really cleaning up the engine, the 681 is still a bit sluggish. Turns out the log dumper is working properly, it ratchets up 1 gear tooth with every button press until it gets to the top so it doesn't just spray logs everywhere.


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

OK, I pretty much have everything cleaned up and operating well, but I have some questions:

1. the cattle car - this works but often the cows tip over and get stuck, there's probably no fixing this, I've tried realigning and playing with the vibration screw and voltage which didn't help, but any tips?

2. i took apart the milk car to clean it up, add a missing door spring, and lubed everything. now if I give it enough juice to open the doors up, it shoots the milk cans practically across the room, if i try to dial it down, it gets jammed, doesn't load a can up for delivery, or doesn't get the doors open. not sure there's a fix for this one either.

3. the switches - work great if i stop the train, give it some juice and flip the switch, but if i try to run the train at normal speed, there's not enough juice to get the track all the way over for the automatic non-derailing action, it gets maybe 90% over, is this normal? should I wire it up directly to the transformer?

4. the street lamps, neither seem to work, seems odd, could be the bulbs, but i tried a switch bulb I know that works in them, neither worked, maybe the frosted bulbs have a slightly different base? 

I did end up getting a cheap scout on ebay, i'm really going to take that apart and try my hand at replacing brushes and really cleaning up the engine, the 681 is still a bit sluggish. Turns out the log dumper is working properly, it ratchets up 1 gear tooth with every button press until it gets to the top so it doesn't just spray logs everywhere.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fizgig,

Wish I could offer some help on the gizmo accessories ... no experience with those on my end.

What Scout did you pick up? I have a pair of 249's, and a 233 (with broken cowcatcher) on its way to me.

TJ


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

6110 

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages...3806&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0 

$15.50 w/tender


----------



## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Have you checked here?

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com//searchcd2d.htm


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

Yes, and I have the original manuals and the greenberg book, troubleshooting deals with milk cans not going far enough, and misalignment, not cows tipping over. the switches say something about needing 14v or something, my multimeter is apparently broken and I can't tell what the actual power level is on the track. For the street lamps, again my meter is broken, I can't tell the power level in the socket.

another question:
My brakeman car only has a shoe on the back and only appears to go up or down when it hits the telltale grounding post, I have solved this by adding a second telltale pole holder/ground before/after it and leaving off the telltales, is that how it's supposed to work? Again, the manual doesn't say anything but how to install it but not where or how it should work.


----------



## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Fiz, according to the K-Line Manual, 

"you're supposed to have 2 each, of the 3424-75, Low Bridge Signals, and they are supposed to be installed in the track at the points where you want your action to take place.
Note that the two actions of the brakeman always alternate each other, one contact causing him to fall and the second causing him to rise"
The manual also shows that there are 2 sets of "Blades", one for "O" and one for, "O27" track.
It also says that the "Brakeman" will rise/fall(depending on where he is when the car crosses) either the 497 Coaling Station, or the 3656 Stock Yard Platform(if you have them) and that you'll need another 3424-75 to get him back in proper sequence.

The manual has 3 pages devoted to the 3656 Stock Car and Platform. From what you describe, you may need to check and see if the 4 corners of the platform "float?"

from the manual;

2. Platform Vibration, 
Check to see that the platform "floats in the frame at all four points of suspension. Adjust the grommeted tips by bending them slightly to free the platform at points where vibration seems poor. In the earlier production models, initial adjustment of platform vibration can be made through an adjustment nut in thebottom of the platform. Resting platform on blocks to reach the nut with a socket wrench, adjust for best performance while applying 12-15 volts. After adjustment, the nut should be sealed with Sauereisen Cement(Lock-tite?) In later production models, no adjustment is necessary and the nut is merely brought uptight.

3. Interference With Motion of Cattle
In the earlier production models possible sources of interference are sharp corners of the corral fence bases. Bend them back slightly as shown(eliminate sharp corners in passage.

Not sure that this helps


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

so, is the brakeman supposed to hit the first set of telltales? maybe that's why I'm confused.

It floats well, it's in almost perfect shape, they tip always the far side, i wonder of the slope of my basement floor is causing them to tip, it doesn't seem like an issue a lot of people are having.


----------



## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

I don't have that car, but the way I read it, hit one and he goes down. Hit the second one and he comes up


----------



## fizgig (May 3, 2010)

so he makes contact with the plastic? I guess that makes sense, they do move.


----------

