# Help with trainset wiring



## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hello. I'm a new member here and hope you can help. I finally got my childhood train set out of my mom's house and down to mine. This is something my parents got me back in the mid-80's when we lived in Germany. I don't know who made the train set but all the equipment on it (transformers, track switch switches, etc) are all Fleischmann. Apparently during all of the moving from overseas and storage at my mom's house some of the wiring got pulled and I can't for the life of me figure it out.

As you can see from the pics below it is a 3 track system. I got the inner most track working because it is the only one with a direct 2 wire connection running to it underneath the table. All the other connections are three wires (tan, black, brown) running to the track switches. I'm assuming that it not only controls the switches but also energizes the track. All the black wires are running to junction boxes under the table. From there I'm stuck. Any help or pointers for what to look at would much appreciated. If you need any more information please ask. I'm lost at the moment trying to get this back up and running. I've attached a few pictures of what I'm dealing with.

Full table (without my models on it)









Front track switches
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/Knightro2/100_1887.jpg

1 (of 2) transformers (Fleischmann). They have one connection for track and 1 connection that looks like a track switch.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/Knightro2/100_1888.jpg

Track switch switches (Fleischmann)
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/Knightro2/100_1889.jpg

Under table junction boxes (Fleischmann)
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/Knightro2/100_1890.jpg


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hmm..well I guess this stumps other people too. lol. Ugghh..this is going to be a nightmare.


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## oldSmokey (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi Knightro2

Can you tell me if this is a Fleischmann layout or a made up one, as all Fleischmann layouts have a number and I may have a wiring diagram for it. At the moment I cannot locate the switch boxes that I have (do you know the number of them, the turnout boxes look like No 516 to me, but I could be wrong) the box should have 3 tags out the bottom 1 on the left top side and 2 on the top and bottom on the right side, these are for your turnouts with the first one being for the signal, I have the wiring diagram for these, the tags connect to the power and the 2 terminal blocks are just for the turnouts. If you can give me any numbers then I'm sure I can find a wiring diagram.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hey oldSmokey,

There is a tag inside the tunnel and I believe it says "8162 Altmuhl" (the u is an umlaut but I can't type that on my laptop). I didn't see anything on the tag that said Fleischmann but again it is hard to read at an angle. I'll check on those other things you asked about tonight when I get home from work.

Thanks for the help!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

From what I can see it does not appear to have much in the way of wiring but I cant see insulated track sections from here. Your turnouts use dual coil motors that require 3 wires to operate. 

Middle wire is constant AC (about 12-18 volts)
Outside wires are for each coil (left and right throw)

Depending on your layout you could have common rail block wiring or each loop may be controlled on its own, it is hard to tell from the pics I can see. If it is a kit and the wiring schematic is available from Smokey he may be able to get your setup running in now time.

Massey


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## oldSmokey (Jul 31, 2011)

Massey is correct in what he stated, the switch boxes have to have power going to them as they are switching the points. There should be a connector for power to the rails, usually 2 small clips, clipped to the rails and connected together with an insulated wire. The tabs on the small green boxes (switches) connect power to each switch in line, so a power connection is needed there and also to the track.
Now: the points are what they call "Thinking Points"

If the two wire bridge clips are taken out of the point, then the current only flows in the track exit for which the point is set. Thus making it an electrically "thinking" point. This makes it possible to store trains without power, without any additional wiring. For example, a fast express can pass a stored goods train on a parallel track. so there is only power in the track where the point is set to.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Well I figured out some of the turnouts. I had a brain storm tonight and got that working. So now I'm on to getting the other two tracks energized. Any other pointers would be helpful. But I appreciate your feedback so far. It has sparked my brain to get me forward. 

And smokey, I looked on the switch boxes but there wasn't anything written on them other than "Made In Germany".


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Ok, I got all the turnouts up and running. I still only have the inner track working. That was easy because there were a pair of wires that ran off by themselves under the table to that track. I hooked them up to one of the controllers and I was in business. Now my dilemma is that there are no other wires running anywhere except for all the turnout wiring. So I am dumbfounded how to get power to the outer two tracks.

When I was younger and playing with this set, I want to say one controller controlled the inner 2 tunnel tracks and the outer mountain pass track controlled by the other. But if I have my engine move from inner to center track it dies. I don't know...I could be wrong but figured I would throw that in.


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## oldSmokey (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi Knightro2,

I've looked through my collection of fleischmann layouts and cannot se one the same as you have posted, there are a couple close but with a lot more turnouts etc.
I do have some of the little Green switch boxes and a few of the terminal blocks
so I can tell you how to wire these up.
The terminal block is a double block, one block each side where the wite goes in, you put a wire in there and it becomes a common for all the wires on that side. I notice from your pics that you are only using one of these and only one side as well, now, you have black wires from all the turnouts going in there as black is the common wire (negative if you are using DC) then the tan and brown wires from the turnout go to the switch one on the top contact and one directly below that, a Positive wire goes to the left side of the switch (looking at the switch from the front position), then the same on the other side (back of switch) so you can control 2 turnouts from one switch as it has the 4 buttons.

Summing Up:
You need to take a common from the power supply to the terminal block, then a Positive to the side of the switch.
When the switch is thrown you should have power on that line, to test it out,
put a loco on one of the lines that there is no power to and change the points manually from the point motor itself.
If you need a drawing of the switch setup, I can scan it for you.
Check to see if there are any isloated rail joiners in the layout.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks for all the info Smokey. Yes, if you could scan that for me I would really appreciate it. It would be good to have on file for down the road.

I'm going to poke around on it a little later to see if I have all the wires setup correctly and/or what I'm missing. Like I mentioned in a post above..I got the turnouts working just not the power to the outer two tracks.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Ok, still stuck. Here's what I've got.
I have the common running from the block to the back of my controller into the output II side (this has a picture of a turnout on it so I assume this is the constant voltage side). I then have the positive running out of there to the side of my first green turnout switch box. Switches are working now.

I still don't have any power to the outer tracks in the way of locomotion and here is where I get stuck. I'm only supplying constant low power to the switches. The other output port on the back of my controller is the side that is controlled with the knob for higher/lower voltage. I don't have anything plugged into that and I don't have anything TO plug into that in the way of extra wires that aren't already in use under the table. So I know I need to hook something into that side of the controller in order to control the train...just don't know what. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong? If you need any additional pictures to help this make sense let me know.

I hope this makes sense. I haven't been much into the actual hobby of model trains but hope to get into it. Again, thank you for all your help.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Just wanted to bump this. I'm almost there. Any other ideas?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Look for wires that come from the rails, they will probably connect to a terminal track.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

I don't have any wires coming directly from the rails other than the inner track. That's why I'm confused here.


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## oldSmokey (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi Knightro2,

First things first, you say that you have 2 wires going to the track, how exactly are the 2 wires physically connected to the track ? Is it 2 spring clips ??
You should have the wires that are going to the track connected to the controller that is adjustable so that you can change the voltage going to the loco. The switches should be on a separate power source.
On the back of the controller you have an AC output and a DC output, I am wondering why you have 2 controllers, as I am thinking that one controller uses the DC for the switches and the other controller uses the DC for the Locos.
Both the switches and track should not be wired to the same output.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hey oldSmokey,

I haven't actually used the train set in over a decade. But I know that I could control two trains separately on two different tracks. So that is why I have two controllers. The wires going to the inner track are connected from underneath. you can't actually see them much on the table top. There was a small gap in the plastic part of the track that I can see them connected directly to the rail. No clips or anything from what I can see. The inner track is the exception it seems. It has those two wires going directly to it. The outer two tracks don't have any direct wiring from what I can see. The only wires going to those tracks are the three wires for the turnouts. This is where I'm stuck. Again, if you need any additional pics that may help you let me know.


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## oldSmokey (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi Knightro2,

Can you check and see if there are any insulated fish plates around or near the turnouts, also check under the table to see if there are any other wires going up the the rails or if there are any holes in the bottom where wires might have been going through. I have checked my books on Fleischmann and your layout is not there, however there is one very close to it, and they have a power supply going to the inner track with the second power supply going to the outer track, I'll scan these and get them to you.


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## oldSmokey (Jul 31, 2011)

These are the 2 pics that I have that come the closest to your layout, my scanner blew when I turned it on, and I haven't got my good scanner hooked up as I was just using this all in one unit that I repaired 4 years ago, so I used the digital camera to take a couple of pics.


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## Knightro2 (Jan 11, 2012)

My set is up and running! WOO HOO! Thanks for the help oldSmokey.
I was frustrated tonight and for whatever reason I ran my fingers down the outside of every track. I came to a couple weird "bumps" way back in the back of the tunnel. I got in there with a flashlight and there were spring clips! I wired them up to my controller and VIOLA'! My outside two tracks are working now. So the inner tunnel track is controlled by one controller. The middle (outside tunnel) track and the mountain pass/bridge is controlled by the other. This is how I remembered it working now. All my turnouts are working (minus one that I think is a problem with the turnout coil itself but I'm leaving it for now). Now I just have to do a full cleaning of the tracks, get my building models that I already built on there, build some more that I've had since I was 8, and get the ski lift installed and running.

Again, thank you all for your help. This was a frustrating experience because other people torn down the train set without me being there. I'm OCD when it comes to wiring (I work in IT) and would have made myself a diagram for rewiring. I'm sure I'll be back later asking for more advice as I add items to my set.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

oldSmokey, Excellent job helping him out!:thumbsup:

Knightro2, Glad to here you got it running and yes post pics when you add on!


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