# Lionel Rumor



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I received an e-mail from a train buddy asking if I had heard about a large layoff of staff at the Lionel headquarters. Told him that I had not but that type of rumor pops up every couple years about Lionel or MTH and it turns out to be BS.

I would think if there was a layoff of any significance it would be all over the forums the minute it happened. On the other hand I do believe that the train importers are experiencing a downturn in business compared to their business model of five years ago or so.

Bill


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

I thought there was a post last night on the other forum from Eddie G. about this subject. Before I could read it, POOF! it was gone. Looked back about 5 pages of posts but no luck. Glad I'm not loosing it yet.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, frankly, all the signs are there that its not going well. The next catalog ought to tell us for sure.

Maybe they will fail, and Menards can buy them and turn 'em around - commercial Darwinism at its finest.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Although I'm an MTH man I wouldn't want to see Lionel fail. I believe competition is good. However if that happened I'd love to see a train guy or company buy them instead of cereal companies or investment firms. Of coarse I don't think that will happen.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

It appears they started outsourcing to Michigan because Dean Brasseur the head ofCSR called me and his number was from Grand Rapids. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Can't say I didn't see this coming.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

SDIV Tim said:


> It appears they started outsourcing to Michigan because Dean Brasseur the head ofCSR called me and his number was from Grand Rapids.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is he the same Brasseur that has Brasseur Trains in Saginaw, MI?
Or is he just related?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dean was indeed the Dean from Brasseur trains, and he jumped ship to work for Lionel. That was several years ago, and I don't think that portends any special issue. Lionel has a number of fairly key people in different locations, Jon Z. the Lionel CTO is in California, he came to Lionel when they bought ERR a few years ago.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Well, frankly, all the signs are there that its not going well. The next catalog ought to tell us for sure.
> 
> Maybe they will fail, and Menards can buy them and turn 'em around - commercial Darwinism at its finest.


Does anyone know when the 2017 v2 is coming out?


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Volphin said:


> Does anyone know when the 2017 v2 is coming out?


Last year, the 2016 volume 2 catalog was released on August 31st. Not all that far away if Lionel follows similar suit this year.


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## Surefire (Jun 6, 2017)

The Goodthink Police nuked it on the other forum. I despise censorship regardless. Hopefully it isn't true.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Another thread has appeared over on the other place asking where the first one went. Somebody has said, quite rightly, that if people have lost their jobs that might be newsworthy for some but very unfortunate for the newly unemployed.

There may be something in this rumor but I don't think it needs to be the subject of speculation.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Went over there to read it and it was zapped. I guess if there is any truth to the rumor we will find out sooner or later.

Bill


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Okay, I talked to a friend today who has some rank in the LCCA. He told me the rumors are true. He also told me that Lionel's booth won't be as big at York this October and there won't be a large layout. They have also cut their reps from five to three. There are a lot of people that will be phased out. Without getting into a lot of detail Lionel was told to downsize.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

DennyM said:


> Okay, I talked to a friend today who has some rank in the LCCA. He told me the rumors are true. He also told me that Lionel's booth won't be as big at York this October and there won't be a large layout. They have also cut their reps from five to three. There are a lot of people that will be phased out. Without getting into a lot of detail Lionel was told to downsize.


Oh dear... I guess the website's shipping schedule will NEVER get updated now!!! 

All kidding aside though, nobody likes to see companies going through rough times. Been there in my former career, and it's no fun. Obviously, prosperous times are always better for everyone involved.

Regarding Lionel's York presence... they've made absolutely terrible use of their booth space in recent years. So perhaps downsizing both the booth and layout (if you can call it that) is not necessarily a bad thing. Candidly speaking, I can't recall when I've been WOW'd by Lionel's York booth in recent years. And in the last York show (or two), the booth has looked as if it was an afterthought.

On a related note, it will be interesting to see what kind of catalog Lionel releases for 2017 Volume 2. Given what you're saying, I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering. There are still a bunch of 21" passenger car sets that have already been catalog'd in recent years and yet to be delivered. So it wouldn't surprise me to see the 2017 Volume 2 catalog consisting of mostly previously catalog'd items.

If Lionel can pull things together and still get their Chinese factory to deliver most -- or ALL -- of the product currently scheduled for delivery in 2017 (including ALL of the passenger sets that don't have a published ship-date yet), then hopefully they won't have too disastrous a year.

Clearly, the O-Gauge toy train market isn't what it was 10-15 years ago. Still a ton of great product out there -- perhaps TOO MUCH -- so the sky certainly isn't falling. But I can see why all of the importers might need to make serious mid-course corrections in these kinds of market conditions.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

As I have said numerous times, when a Capitol Management Company owns you, you bow to their marching orders. Sounds like the Lionel portfolio for Guggenheim Capitol Management is under performing.

Bill


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Time for new owners? I have to agree with Dave, the Lionel booth has really gone downhill. It will be interesting to see what they field. If there are fewer people there as well, that will be unfortunate. One of the nice things about their presence is you get to talk to folks about the product and the company's direction.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

A company called Guggenheim who I guess is in charge now has told Lionel to downsize. My friend also speculated that's why Mike Reagan got out when he did.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

DennyM said:


> A company called Guggenheim who I guess is in charge now has told Lionel to downsize. My friend also speculated that's why Mike Reagan got out when he did.


Part of me wonders, "How much is there left to downsize?"  I have no idea how many employees work at Lionel these days. But with manufacturing now largely occurring overseas, the company is a mere shadow of its former self decades ago. So what remains? Marketing/sales, licensing, product design/engineering, customer service, and of course, executive management _overhead_.

Then again, look at 3rd Rail / Sunset Models. At times it seems to run like a one-man operation with Scott flying back-and-forth to China almost every other month -- although I'm sure Scott has a team of folks doing research on the models planned for future overseas production. One thing in Scott's favor: he is an excellent communicator, and he recognizes the value of keeping his clients "in the know" with manufacturing progress updates. He also seems to wear at least a dozen different hats... yet still responds to individual customer emails almost daily. Those are the kinds of things that don't go unnoticed.

Perhaps it's time for Lionel to take a lesson from Scott Mann?


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## VinceL (May 23, 2017)

SDIV Tim said:


> It appears they started outsourcing to Michigan because Dean Brasseur the head ofCSR called me and his number was from Grand Rapids.


While Dean's phone number has a Michigan area code, he is located in Concord. I was at customer service in Concord a few weeks ago when Dean personally replaced the floors and trucks on my damaged LionScale box cars.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Perhaps it's time for Lionel to take a lesson from Scott Mann?


Dealing with Scott is more like consulting a trusted adviser than talking with someone who just sells a product. Mike Reagan similarly provided an exceptional service although always in his own inimitable way.

In that connection, I did not immediately make the possible connection with the Lionel rumor but just three days ago, Mike announced (over on the other forum) that while still part of Trainworx he's going into the repair business servicing Lionel, MTH and Atlas models.

Having Mike available as a repair resource is a positive development. But it's bigger, and bad, news if Lionel itself is cutting back its capacity to support the models it is selling or has already sold.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Is Mike managing the repair dept for TW or is going out on his own ?

Bill


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Is Mike managing the repair dept for TW or is going out on his own ?
> 
> Bill


Must be the former; here's what he said to kick off -

_Hey guys,

Just thought I would drop the word that I will be accepting repairs through TW Trainworx starting immediately. I am located in Concord, NC and will be accepting repairs on Lionel, Atlas O and MTH products, for anyone looking for a reliable repair source. If you are interested in having something repaired, please contact me directly at [email protected]. _


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Not enough to do in his TW role? Good to have Mike as a repair resource.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I just looked at Trainworx website. I didn't see any O gauge stuff. All I saw was HO and N.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TrainWork does O-gauge layouts, so it's reasonable to assume that they'd expand into that business with Mike on board. I'm personally very happy to see he's staying connected to the business. When I saw him at York, he seemed to be the happiest he's been in years, so I think he's having more fun at TW than at Lionel.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Surefire said:


> The Goodthink Police nuked it on the other forum. I despise censorship regardless. ...


Management's censorship over on the "other" forum has really gotten out of control. Surprise, surprise...  Yesterday, somebody posted a Tinplate Std Gauge item for-sale... and it was the exact item I recall another member posting a WTB thread about a few times recently. So I suggested the seller try to contact the fellow posting the WTB, and provided a link to the WTB thread. Harmless, right?

Well... you guessed it. My suggestion was zapped... but not before the seller saw it and posted to the other member's WTB thread. So perhaps they'll make the connection after all.

And please spare me the "It's their rules, so we gotta play by their rules when in their house." nonsense. That's total BS, because they get TONS and TONS of free content from members -- which is precisely what allows them to sell ad-space and generate revenue from OUR contributions. So they can take their petty "we're in charge here" rules and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. 

This is a much more mature environment to "talk everything trains", where folks and admins treat everyone with respect. 

David


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Why don't you tell us how you really feel. Sometimes I'm tempted to post something that will annoy them and get deleted. Then post something else just to get deleted. I want to see if I make them mad enough they'll actually delete my account since they won't let me do it.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

I talked with Dean and yesterday while he was trying to figure out what is wrong with my A because it didn't act up in front of him. He said no one is getting laid off as far as I know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Several times now I've heard stories of Lionel dragging their feet with Legacy system repairs, a far cry from the responsive and free repairs they were doing. That causes at least one eyebrow to to up a bit, it does sound like they may be tightening the purse strings.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Well, they just did a legacy out-of-warranty repair for me. It took a while, but it could be just the normal backlog.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I hope you're right Forrest, but I've also heard rumors about them cutting back on stuff like shows. York will tell the tale, their booth has been going downhill for years, we'll see what they have in the fall.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I hope you're right Forrest, but I've also heard rumors about them cutting back on stuff like shows. York will tell the tale, their booth has been going downhill for years, we'll see what they have in the fall.


I was told that there will only be three reps in October and they won't have the big layout, but like you said we'll see.

Tim, my friend is going to see Dean at the LCCA convention in Tacoma Washington. I'm sure he's going to ask him.


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## Brewman1973 (Sep 9, 2015)

Hi Guys, we have an aging demographic group that likes trains, so I think the challenge for the model train companies is to how to grow revenues and profits within that backdrop. In the short run, about the only thing a company can do is control costs. I do think senior leadership matters in developing a coherent business plan and then implement it. Consumers are very price sensitive, so while we like the idea of made in the USA, most are not willing to pay more for made in the USA. There was an article in the WSJ on that very topic today. 
I really hope things work out of Lionel, but with a weak economic recovery, an Amazon dominated retail environment that is putting immense pressure on traditional retailers, and enough secondary market stuff to buy on various auction sites, I think we will see a less is more solution approach to their business plan.

Dave B from Tacoma


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> ...
> 
> On a related note, it will be interesting to see what kind of catalog Lionel releases for 2017 Volume 2. Given what you're saying, I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering. There are still a bunch of 21" passenger car sets that have already been catalog'd in recent years and yet to be delivered. So it wouldn't surprise me to see the 2017 Volume 2 catalog consisting of mostly previously catalog'd items.
> 
> ...


So it appears Lionel could be proving me wrong regarding content of their 2017 Volume 2 catalog. As I was cherry-picking my way through a Notch 6 podcast over on OGR, I let the podcast play through "normally" when I tripped over Ryan Kunkle mentioning that the *2017 Volume 2 catalog will contain nearly ALL new products/SKU's.* That'll be a first for Lionel, if I'm not mistaken.

Apparently Lionel would like to target delivery of products catalog'd in Vol 2 for first-half of the following year. And delivery of products catalog'd in Signature Vol 1 catalogs would be targetted for second-half of that same year.

I thought I also heard Ryan say that attendees of this year's LCCA convention (7/24-7/29) will get a preview of some new products to be catalog'd in 2017 Volume 2. So I guess the rest of us should be hearing more about whatever Lionel previews shortly.

I'm not buying a lot of new stuff these days -- especially as compared to my buying habits of 10+ years ago. But it'll be interesting nonetheless to see just how many "new" products Lionel unveils in 2017 Volume 2 (due out in late August I believe). Amazing how much new stuff the importers continue to pump into an already super-saturated market.  But hey, let's not forget importers like Lionel are doing the Texas Two-Step nowadays, and it's the dealer/distributor network that really gets caught holding all the unsold inventory.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Several times now I've heard stories of Lionel dragging their feet with Legacy system repairs, a far cry from the responsive and free repairs they were doing. That causes at least one eyebrow to to up a bit, it does sound like they may be tightening the purse strings.


John, I called Lionel about my Legacy failure, they sent out an RMA, mailed it off and received it back in 8 days. I don't thinks that's too bad. 

What concerns me more is this is the second time the Legacy system had to be repaired for the same reason. It entailed the replacement of a board. I have the number and thought about ordering a couple in the event they stop the free repairs.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have an extra Legacy #990 in the closet in case mine takes a dive.  I have the BASE1L as well, when I bought the CAB1L, I bought the set. I want to at least be able to run if a component craps out.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have an extra Legacy #990 in the closet in case mine takes a dive.  I have the BASE1L as well, when I bought the CAB1L, I bought the set. I want to at least be able to run if a component craps out.


Smart thinking John. My only back-up is the original TMCC set. It still works, I have three CABs on which the key pads are a little flakey, but it works.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a couple of old TMCC bases, those are on my workbench and my TMCC test set. I do have a couple of CAB1 remotes, though I'm not sure where the one is right now.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> . . . I let the podcast play through "normally" when I tripped over Ryan Kunkle mentioning that the *2017 Volume 2 catalog will contain nearly ALL new products/SKU's.* That'll be a first for Lionel, if I'm not.


Hmmmm. I have not listened to that broadcast yet but my reaction to your report is:

(1) It would not be unprecedented for Lionel staff to announce intentions/ambitions that do not actually come to fruition. Hard to imagine that they would have an all-new product line-up in the current climate.

(2) But what if they do? What would it consist of? My money would be on non-Legacy products, in other words nothing new for the more dedicated Legacy users and nothing very ambitious on the scale detail front. 

Anyway, I already have got all that I want out of the "recycled" scale engine tooling prevalent in recent catalogs - except of course for a Veranda diesel!


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

That would be pretty aggressive on Lionel's part to have 100% new in the upcoming catalog. If it does happen that should be interesting in what Lionel considers new, could be complete opposite in what I consider new.

Bill


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

doesn't seem practical, does it?


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Folks attending the LCCA convention last week were supposed to have gotten a preview of the 2017 Vol 2 catalog at one of the Lionel presentations, but I haven't heard any details yet.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

HarborBelt1970 said:


> Anyway, I already have got all that I want out of the "recycled" scale engine tooling prevalent in recent catalogs - except of course for a Veranda diesel!


I've scratched that itch, and they are a pretty cool locomotive. It has better than average sounds and smoke features for TMCC. It also has several custom boards that make that happen, so I hope they don't croak!


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

Apparently Lionel would like to target delivery of products catalog'd in Vol 2 for first-half of the following year. And delivery of products catalog'd in Signature Vol 1 catalogs would be targetted for second-half of that same year.

_ A noble goal... Wasn't Mike Regan working on all that ? 
You make money on producing and selling product. Not catalogs.
Maybe that should cut back to one and let production catch up. I think people would be a lot happier and the company more profitable if they concentrated on getting the current catalog offerings to market. Oh well, we can only hope...._


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

i have a veranda, too, but i can't run it on my layout. when they first announced it, it was pegged for O54. when it finally came out, it was O72. i took my preorder and keep hoping for a lionmaster veranda...fat chance.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's a beast, but it's really cool in operation.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Does anyone know if MTH ever made one?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Spence, you surprise me. 

Here, let me google that for you

O Scale Premier Veranda Turbine & Tender Set With Proto-Sound 3.0


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

I know MTH made a couple of different turbines (Lee probably has them all). 

IIRC the Lionel sound package on the veranda is superior.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I haven't actually seen (or heard) the MTH run, but I have seen it on the shelf. Looks VERY similar to my Lionel, don't know about the sounds.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

I'm pretty sure erictrains.com did a review of the MTH Veranda at some point. I owned the Lionel version (but sold it during my collection thinning a couple of years ago). It is quite the heavy piece -- much like the die-cast ES44's but perhaps even more so. As usual, the Railsounds are superb.

A year or so ago, a lot of MTH dealers were blowing out the PS3 Veranda for around $450-500, which was a great deal considering the MTH model carried an $899 MSRP. As a result, those MTH models are tough to find now.

As I recall, MTH issued an "easy fix" for the PS3 Verandas... having something to do with a plastic baffle to properly route smoke to the roof-top exhausts. The part was available from MTH for free at the time. So it's worth asking about this tidbit of info, for anybody considering a used MTH Veranda that was delivered in mid-2013.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Spence, you surprise me.
> 
> Here, let me google that for you
> 
> O Scale Premier Veranda Turbine & Tender Set With Proto-Sound 3.0


The light bulb just went on. 😄 Now I remember the answer


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> I'm pretty sure erictrains.com did a review of the MTH Veranda at some point. I owned the Lionel version (but sold it during my collection thinning a couple of years ago). It is quite the heavy piece -- much like the die-cast ES44's but perhaps even more so. As usual, the Railsounds are superb.
> 
> A year or so ago, a lot of MTH dealers were blowing out the PS3 Veranda for around $450-500, which was a great deal considering the MTH model carried an $899 MSRP. As a result, those MTH models are tough to find now.
> 
> As I recall, MTH issued an "easy fix" for the PS3 Verandas... having something to do with a plastic baffle to properly route smoke to the roof-top exhausts. The part was available from MTH for free at the time. So it's worth asking about this tidbit of info, for anybody considering a used MTH Veranda that was delivered in mid-2013.


Eric of ericstrains review of the MTH Veranda from 2014.


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## KeithL (Mar 29, 2016)

I recommend listening to Derek Thomas' (Notch 6) interview of Lionel President Howard Hitchcock at the LCCA convention. Howard indicates that there was a "restructuring" (letting some people go, which he described as very difficult) at Lionel at the beginning of this year. It had nothing to do with the train line and everything to do with the lack of success of Lionel's major strategic move, led by Mega Tracks, to expand into the larger toy market. (If you listened to the interview with Howard Hitchcock at last year's LCCA convention, you heard him say that he envisioned Lionel eventually becoming a toy company with a train division.) As it turned out, while Mega Tracks was well received by the toy industry, it just didn't go in the marketplace. Lionel had, in Howard's words, "ramped up" to support what they hoped would be a successful Mega Tracks business (with, I imagine, other products to follow). When it just didn't go, ownership, which had gone along that far, wanted Lionel to scale back on what was a drag on Lionel's overall business results. Howard also indicates that Lionel will continue to emphasize developing product to expand the "top of the funnnel" in the train market, while at the same time continuing to satisfy the high-end hobbyists.

Cheers!

Keith


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> I'm pretty sure erictrains.com did a review of the MTH Veranda at some point. I owned the Lionel version (but sold it during my collection thinning a couple of years ago). It is quite the heavy piece -- much like the die-cast ES44's but perhaps even more so. As usual, the Railsounds are superb.
> 
> A year or so ago, a lot of MTH dealers were blowing out the PS3 Veranda for around $450-500, which was a great deal considering the MTH model carried an $899 MSRP. As a result, those MTH models are tough to find now.
> 
> As I recall, MTH issued an "easy fix" for the PS3 Verandas... having something to do with a plastic baffle to properly route smoke to the roof-top exhausts. The part was available from MTH for free at the time. So it's worth asking about this tidbit of info, for anybody considering a used MTH Veranda that was delivered in mid-2013.


I owned both MTH PS1 and Lionel versions at the same time for a year or so, back a number of years ago. The MTH had four motors and an ABS body. The Lionel had a metal body and two motors and would out-pull it. Both looked good and ran well - yes the Lionel could outpull the MTH but the difference was way out there - 72 cars instead of 67 or something like that. Didn't matter. The Lionel had (still has) just a bit of that first-generation cruise control problem (the Odyssey surge) when pulling a lot of weight up a hill, but runs fine. In understand the PS3 Veranda has only two motors.

They sounded different, not at all alike. Both sounded more like turbines than anything else, but different turbines. The Lionel had much more whine and less "whoosh" and its sounded varied more with speed.

The MTH died many years ago, three clanks of death or similar. I took it apart for its four big motors and they were used in some of my 2nd generation 'Streets tractor trailers and buses. Eventually I cut up the body to use parts and components for various projects, etc. and threw the rest away. I still have the tender. 

I still have the Lionel. It is one of my favorite locos. It has logged many, many miles since then. Great model. _Very _ very heavy . . .


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> In understand the PS3 Veranda has only two motors.


Lee, the review above claims the PS/3 Veranda has four motors. 

I know my Lionel one pulled around 60 coal cars around, including grades, so it's two motors are more than sufficient for any normal load.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Per Keith's post above. I love the phrase "opening the funnel".

That is so correct. I happen to be in an industry that has experienced exactly what Lionel has experienced. Bowling. 

A long time industry going back to the early 1900's. Technology gave us a huge boost in 1950-60 - Automatic Pinsetters & Postwar trains, for the WWII generation and their baby boomer children, with little competition for the recreational dollars. Bowling and Lionel were huge! Move into the late 60's & 70's and you have an overbuilt inventory and the slide begins. Golf courses, beautiful amusement parks (Disney World), HO trains, Texas Instrument computers, organized youth sports. Your industry does not respond and your product deterioates - MPC era and smoky beatup bowling alleys. 

I have been following this thread with trepidation. I certainly do not want to see Lionel go down in flames. If what Keith posted is true, it is the absolute correct step for Lionel. Bowling had 10,000 centers in the United States in 1970. We are now down to 5000. But, 90% of those that survived are incredible facilities. My location is thriving. ("Knock on wood") We changed our environment (well built scale locomotives), opened the funnel by adding a restaurant, super game room and hosting charity events supporting local services. Stopped smoking 2 years before the ban. Removed all the fiberglass benches and installed couches and state of the art electronics (Legacy).

If you are standing still you will soon end up 2 steps behind. Change and adaptability are a never ending process, rather it is manufacturing toy trains or running an entertainment facility. 

I think and hope Lionel is on the right path.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Wood said:


> Per Keith's post above. I love the phrase "opening the funnel".
> 
> That is so correct. I happen to be in an industry that has experienced exactly what Lionel has experienced. Bowling.
> 
> ...


Hmm . . . so Lionel trains and bowling. Interesting parallel comparison, but it makes sense. You state that in 1970 (when the US population was 205 million) there were 10,000 bowing alleys. Now there are 5,000 (with the current US population at about 326 million). 

So, 47 years later, the population has increased 121 million, yet we have half as many bowling alleys. This of course, due to changing leisure activities, technologies, preferences, and other factors.

I wonder how many Lionel train owners there were back in 1970 compared to today? Sort of makes one think. 

Thanks for that, Wood.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Wood you bring up about automated pinsetters. There is/was (don't know if it's still there) a bowling alley on the North side of Chicago that featured manual pinsetters. It wasn't a big place more like a Irish pub.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

DennyM said:


> Wood you bring up about automated pinsetters. There is/was (don't know if it's still there) a bowling alley on the North side of Chicago that featured manual pinsetters. It wasn't a big place more like a Irish pub.


Denny, You are referring to Southport Lanes in Chicago. Built in 1900 by the Schlitz Brewing company. Still in existence and still using pin boys. Very upscale now.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Wood said:


> Denny, You are referring to Southport Lanes in Chicago. Built in 1900 by the Schlitz Brewing company. Still in existence and still using pin boys. Very upscale now.


That's exactly the place. I think it was at Southport and Henderson not real far from Roscoe. I lived about a mile from there 1/2 block North of Addison and one block west of Ashland.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Wood,

That is cool you own a bowling alley.

I see you are in Rhode Island. I may come to the TCA Convention in Warwick next summer. Hopefully I can see your operation or layout at that time.



Wood said:


> Per Keith's post above. I love the phrase "opening the funnel".
> 
> That is so correct. I happen to be in an industry that has experienced exactly what Lionel has experienced. Bowling.
> 
> ...


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Craig, are you a kegler?


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Craignor said:


> Wood,
> 
> That is cool you own a bowling alley.
> 
> I see you are in Rhode Island. I may come to the TCA Convention in Warwick next summer. Hopefully I can see your operation or layout at that time.


Craig, You are very welcome to visit. I will also attend the convention and several of my local friends are going to have their layouts available for members to visit. I have no desire to have a bus come to my home, but it would be great to have MTF forum members visit. If you or anyone else is attending the TCA, let me know and perhaps we can do lunch and a visit to Newport together.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Wood,

Thanks, yeah, let's get together up there, I was also thinking of going to a Red Sox game if they are in town that week. Hopefully, I will see you at York in October and we can hang out there. Maybe we could have a MTF Fenway night out?

Brian,

I am as good of a Kegler as I am a Golfer. which is why trains are my past time.


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