# Help running my American Flyer!!!



## GramB

My old train needs my grandsons this year, and last year had a going over (engine) at a shop so it runs BUT it stops at various points of a loop track and then has to be hand started again. I cannot even figure out what to check, but I hope I can getting it running, as in continuously. Right now it might make a loop or two, or maybe half. It is not consistent. Is it possible that it is just jumping the track at different places, and why? We think the track is clean and in good shape, but I obviously do not understand! Thanks so much for any ideas!


----------



## santafe158

I think you'd know it if it was off the tracks (should be pretty visible/audible). Even if the tracks look clean to your eye, they may not be. Some 90%+ rubbing alcohol on a rag wiped over the top should help that. Also ensure the treads of the wheels on the engine are clean as well, using the same method. It's also possible that some of the pin connections between track sections may not be as tight as they could be since things do loosen up over the years.


----------



## AmFlyer

Start with the simple things first. Clean the track with alcohol as mentioned, you can also use an electrical contact cleaner or a citric acid product such as Goo Gone or Citrasolve. The pickup wheels also must be cleaned. Use the same cleaner. You did not mention what type of engine it is. For a steam engine clean the pickup wheels on the tender. For a diesel clean all the wheels. It is easiest on a diesel to remove the truck side frames first. Just 2 small screws in the bottom, it only takes a few seconds to do. 
I find on my Christmas layout the pickup wheels and track need to be cleaned about every hour of running time to maintain flawless running and flicker free car lights. If you have a later production Gilbert engine with the sliding pickups they will operate longer without cleaning.


----------



## AmFlyer

One more quick item to check. If the power is connected to the track with a Gilbert 690 track terminal first make sure the track is clean where the terminal makes contact with the sides of the rail flanges. Also make sure the terminal snaps tightly to the rails. Sometimes the metal strap that runs under the bottom of the fiber board needs to be rebent slightly to make it tight. If the track terminal is loose the engine will intermittently start and stop.


----------



## flyernut

Get yourself a "bright-boy". It looks like a eraser, but has small particles in it to help clean track and your pick-up wheels. What is the cab number on the engine?? Steam or diesel?? It sounds like just dirty track and pick-up wheels to me. I would start there first. Like the other posts said, also check your connections between the tracks..If all else fails, send it off to me, and I'll look at it,and do any repairs, free of charge. If you want a running loco just for Christmas, I'll send you one of mine for the grandkids to use during Christmas, and we can swap the engines back after Christmas. Just pay for shipping.


----------



## C100

*Help Running My Flyer*



flyernut said:


> Get yourself a "bright-boy". It looks like a eraser, but has small particles in it to help clean track and your pick-up wheels. What is the cab number on the engine?? Steam or diesel?? It sounds like just dirty track and pick-up wheels to me. I would start there first. Like the other posts said, also check your connections between the tracks..If all else fails, send it off to me, and I'll look at it,and do any repairs, free of charge. If you want a running loco just for Christmas, I'll send you one of mine for the grandkids to use during Christmas, and we can swap the engines back after Christmas. Just pay for shipping.


What a great offer by flyer nut.......always a class act.


----------



## flyernut

C100 said:


> What a great offer by flyer nut.......always a class act.


You're too kind my friend.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## GramB

*thanks!*

to all of you... This forum is new to me so I cannot see your messages as I write, just this blank box. I'll be taking notes and trying everything, but I definitely think the wheels need tightening. And since we've cleaned the track over and over, could still be an issue, my guess would be the wheels at this point! Thanks so much! GramB


----------



## 400E Blue Comet

It sounds to me like it's a problem with the wheels (Or rail pickup if if doesn't get power from the wheels, or maybe the contacts that touch the wheels) if you've already cleaned the track. You could try testing it by touching the wires of the transformer while its on to the wheels or rail pickup (Whichever it uses) of the train. Try cleaning the bottom of the wheels/rail pickup if you can.


----------



## GramB

*to flyernut*

Now I see better how this page is set up. My train is probably a 1950 model and has #322 printed at the rear of the engine. If you add an oil it makes steam, so I suppose that's what it is, but I never heard of a diesel. It was never overtaxed, and had quite a few years off, but we've been trying to keep it running for the last 5+ years. You are totally too kind to offer me an engine! That is so awesome of you!
We're going to take some more steps with it later tomorrow. Thanks so much!


----------



## GramB

*to santafe158*

We'll be recleaning and pay special attention to the wheels. Some of the track pins were slightly bent, I can't remember any loose ones, but last year we nailed the track down on top of a grey foam strip, and my idea was to keep the track that way forevermore. My bigger concern, personal opinion, is that some of the tracks may be tilted just a bit and possibly throwing the engine off balance. It looks perfect, so any un-even-es would be minor. I think the wheels feel wigglier than they used to, but I could be mistaken. The very front wheels seem to have a lot of play, but they have that spring. maybe the spring is too loose. Thanks!


----------



## GramB

*AmFlyer*

Thanks, I didn't realize they all needed to be cleaned so often, and will also double check the terminal snaps more carefully!


----------



## flyernut

GramB said:


> Now I see better how this page is set up. My train is probably a 1950 model and has #322 printed at the rear of the engine. If you add an oil it makes steam, so I suppose that's what it is, but I never heard of a diesel. It was never overtaxed, and had quite a few years off, but we've been trying to keep it running for the last 5+ years. You are totally too kind to offer me an engine! That is so awesome of you!
> We're going to take some more steps with it later tomorrow. Thanks so much!


What you have is a Hudson, with a wheel arrangement of 4-6-4.It was made from 1946 - 1949. These are beautiful engines, and one of my favorites. I have 3-4 of them, and can't get enough. They are robust, and easy to work on. Prices on them can vary, but figure $75-$125, depending of course on condition. The oil, as you refer to, is a very light oil or fluid, that when introduced into the smoke unit via the smoke stack, creates a vapor that appears to be smoke. The fluid comes in many different scents, and some of my favorites is black licorice, pumpkin pie, and peppermint patty,lol.. Whenever you run your loco, keep fluid in the smoke unit or you can burn out the wick, and then needing repairs. What I would do in your position is to take it to a reputable hobby shop/toy train repair station, and have them go through the engine, replacing the brushes, brush springs, re-face the armature, and just a general go-over of the wiring, checking for breaks or cracks, also checking the head-light. Also have them check the reverse unit, looking for damaged fingers. All this service SHOULD cost $50 dollars or less. If they want more, or just won't do the work, send it to me, and I'll do the service, just pay for shipping both ways, and MAYBE a minimal cost for parts, if needed. All told it shouldn't be more than $25-$30 dollars. I helped a fellow flyer guy who took his engine to a shop, and was told the engine wasn't worth the money or effort to save it... Pity..The problem when it comes to trains is MANY times, the repair costs out-weigh the value of the engine. You have a $100 dollar engine, and a $50 dollar investment is worth the cost, to me at least..When I got into this hobby years ago, I figured out very quickly that I'd better learn how to fix these things myself, or I couldn't afford the hobby. I now have drawers and drawers of spare parts, new parts, books, and manuals, plus a host of friends and people I associate with on facebook and here, to help me if I get stuck. Check out some of my threads on fixes/restorations I've done for people....Flyernut.


----------



## flyernut

Your track pins should have a slight bend on them, making for a better and tighter fit..Sometimes spacing between the wheels on the same axle will be off, causing a derailment. An easy way to check for this is called the "dime" measure. The spacing between the wheels should be the width of a dime. If it's not, simply move the wheels in or out to achieve the correct spacing. You are also correct in stating the spring on the front truck could be bad, needing replacement.... Make sure the surface you nailed the tracks to is sturdy, and does not bend. This can cause a bending of the tracks also. Don't use sandpaper on those tracks! Get yourself a bright-boy as I described earlier.


----------



## GramB

We had it gone over last year and they repaired the brush holder. It was very close to Christmas and didn't work well after that, as is the case now. That repair was $40, but not totally itemized. By running my fingers over the tracks, I feel one bent place on the track, and a couple of ragged connections between tracks. Sometimes it stops without the wheels jumping at all, but usually they do. So this could be 2 separate problems? Maybe too much play in the wheels plus track problems? (also maybe still engine caused, but I'm looking for more clues.)


----------



## 400E Blue Comet

A track problem could be involved, sometimes when I set my S gauge up on the floor I find that a few of the tracks tilt a bit, usually not enough to make the train derail though unless it's a bad track that has one rail bent. Is there any way you can take it to a different train repair person? If it stopped working well after they fixed the brush holder then something might've gone wrong in the repair. Try touching the transformer to the electrical pickups directly to see if it runs fine off of the track.


----------



## flyernut

Bench test the running of the loco. If the loco runs without any problems, forward or backward, at least you can eliminate the engine as the source of the problem. I bench test my loco several different ways, but I'll mention the easiest. Get a piece of straight rack and hook up your track lock-on to it. Hold the engine up just a little so the wheels aren't touching the surface, and add power. The loco should run.Stop power, and then check for the operation in the other direction..My offer still stands to repair your loco just for shipping.... Do you know what they did to repair the brush holder, or what exactly was wrong with it? In all my years I've only had to replace/repair a brush holder twice, they rarely go bad. You can also pick up a used one on ebay, if the repair didn't work.


----------



## mopac

I had to repair my brush holder. One of the brush tubes kept backing out at least 1/2 inch.
I super glued it in and it seems to be working. Those springs don't seem to have much tension, but when train was ran it backed one of the tubes out of brush holder. It would feel snug when pushed back in but it wasn't.


----------



## AmFlyer

GramB, I recommend you take Flyernut up his offer. He will have the Hudson running better than factory new. If the Cab is stamped 322 then it was made in 1946, 47, or 48. The first two years were SIT designs with a smoke tube between the engine and tender. The 1946 would also have New York Central stamped on the side of the tender rather than American Flyer Lines, these are rare. Most likely you have a 1948 engine, if the coupler weight is brass that will confirm 1948 production. Beginning in 1949 the engines were stamped 322AC with a few exceptions. 1950 322AC engines have some subtle detail differences from the 1949 production and are easy to spot when examined closely.


----------



## GramB

*flyernut*

*thanks*, I think it's time to use the separate tracks in order to ID that part of the problem, which we can do this evening.


----------



## GramB

*AmFlyer*

...and thanks to you! I was born in Feb. 1949, and apparently during Dec. of 1949, I was running the sample train my dad had in the front window of his electrical store. That floor would have been about 18" higher than the actual floor, so if the transformer were on the end, I could have stood and reached it. He couldn't wait to get me a train the next year, Dec. 1950! But I didn't know the actual manufacturing date. He bought directly from wholesalers in the closest city, Pittsburgh. It's always been very special to me.


----------



## GramB

*400E Blue Comet*

I appreciate the tips! We'll check this evening using extra track pieces, because I'd like, if possible, to determine how much the tracks are contributing to this rather than just the engine. I'm not sure if there are other places within range who do repairs.


----------



## AmFlyer

GramB, I received my first train for Christmas of 1950, I am a year older. It was purchased at Kaufmanns in Pittsburgh. It is a set so far undocumented in any of the published master set lists. It appears the set was packaged specifically for Kaufmanns. The set box number is 4611A and the contents included an unboxed 577 billboard. The engine is a 1950 322AC Hudson. Nice to hear you are taking care of yours.

Here it is on my layout at Christmas 1955.


----------



## flyernut

GramB said:


> *thanks*, I think it's time to use the separate tracks in order to ID that part of the problem, which we can do this evening.


Let us know how you make out..


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> GramB, I received my first train for Christmas of 1950, I am a year older. It was purchased at Kaufmanns in Pittsburgh. It is a set so far undocumented in any of the published master set lists. It appears the set was packaged specifically for Kaufmanns. The set box number is 4611A and the contents included an unboxed 577 billboard. The engine is a 1950 322AC Hudson. Nice to hear you are taking care of yours.
> 
> Here it is on my layout at Christmas 1955.
> View attachment 254049


Your set, 4611A was made in 1948-49. It consisted of a 322AC,716,634,629, and a 630.There was a catalog error in 1949, and the catalog listed the 4611A as 4611.


----------



## flyernut

GramB said:


> I appreciate the tips! We'll check this evening using extra track pieces, because I'd like, if possible, to determine how much the tracks are contributing to this rather than just the engine. I'm not sure if there are other places within range who do repairs.


One thing all of us has missed.... is the engine just stopping, and need a push, or does it go into "neutral", and do you have to turn off the transformer and then back on, to get it to go?? If the loco looses electrical contact with the rails, it will go into neutral, and you then have to initiate the reversing sequence with the transformer. However, if the loco does not go into neutral, just maybe needing a push, perhaps the connection between the tender and loco is bad.. Check to see that the male jack plug is inserted into the female jack plug tightly. Sometimes while the loco is running, the plug can be dis-lodged just a wee bit, and the loco will stop. Just another guess on my part, as I've seen this happen to me before, lol. It's frustrating to say the least when it runs perfect on the bench, and then a dumb thing like a bad connection between the jack and jack panel makes you pull your hair out!!! And I don't have that much hair left!! By the way, I was born in 1950, so we're all about the same age.


----------



## AmFlyer

Flyernut, my set was in fact made in 1950 even though it was not catalogued that year. It was apparently put together as a department store special for Kaufmanns. The box is a 1950, the engine is stamped Aug 1950 inside the shell and a 632 LNE hopper was substituted for the 629. It also included an unboxed 577 whistling billboard in the set box.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> Flyernut, my set was in fact made in 1950 even though it was not catalogued that year. It was apparently put together as a department store special for Kaufmanns. The box is a 1950, the engine is stamped Aug 1950 inside the shell and a 632 LNE hopper was substituted for the 629. It also included an unboxed 577 whistling billboard in the set box.


Ya never know what those guys did back in those days,lol..Rules?? We don't need no stinking rules!!..Those Hudson's are beautiful. I'm always looking for another....:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## GramB

*flyernut and AmFlyer*

I'm reporting back in. I'd give my train a 90% (+) right now, enough to run it for this season! ! You were a great help & I appreciate it so much! If I suspected that it could only be the engine, I'd have shipped it off days ago, but I still wasn't sure. I figured it was high time to check in with my former repair shop, but what I did was ask possibilities of my mishaps along with possibilities of his running any tests at his place. He couldn't say anything for sure other than he'd replace the foam underlayment I have the tracks on now. I decided to attack the tracks, and the one thing I knew was that I'd dented one spot where it derails, and I have all of one extra straight piece of track, so I exchanged them. Lo and behold, the train made 3 loops before stopping, not derailing, just slowing down & stopping. Then 5 loops, then umpteen loops! It is not 100%, but one step at a time. I think some other track pieces ought to be eyed suspiciously as the next step.
After that I'll consider removing the foam, but running for over 5 minutes is a record I can start with for now! Then the engine might still benefit from some work, but I hope it keeps going around rather than doing less than 1 loop, in which case the grandsons can have a good time with it! I was so absolutely lost without your suggestions! (Unfortunately, I did not inherit my dad's electrical knack, but I sure wanted to.) I doubt that this is the last you'll hear from me, but that's the update for now, and thanks!


----------



## flyernut

GramB said:


> I'm reporting back in. I'd give my train a 90% (+) right now, enough to run it for this season! ! You were a great help & I appreciate it so much! If I suspected that it could only be the engine, I'd have shipped it off days ago, but I still wasn't sure. I figured it was high time to check in with my former repair shop, but what I did was ask possibilities of my mishaps along with possibilities of his running any tests at his place. He couldn't say anything for sure other than he'd replace the foam underlayment I have the tracks on now. I decided to attack the tracks, and the one thing I knew was that I'd dented one spot where it derails, and I have all of one extra straight piece of track, so I exchanged them. Lo and behold, the train made 3 loops before stopping, not derailing, just slowing down & stopping. Then 5 loops, then umpteen loops! It is not 100%, but one step at a time. I think some other track pieces ought to be eyed suspiciously as the next step.
> After that I'll consider removing the foam, but running for over 5 minutes is a record I can start with for now! Then the engine might still benefit from some work, but I hope it keeps going around rather than doing less than 1 loop, in which case the grandsons can have a good time with it! I was so absolutely lost without your suggestions! (Unfortunately, I did not inherit my dad's electrical knack, but I sure wanted to.) I doubt that this is the last you'll hear from me, but that's the update for now, and thanks!


Sometimes, the simplest things are the hardest to sort out.. So very glad to hear that the situation is gradually changing for the better. People tend to think because it's a "toy" train, there's nothing that can go wrong with it...I would use 1/2" plywood as a base, with 2x2's around the perimeter, and every 24" on center. This should give you a sturdy platform to avoid any more bends in the track. We'll be here to help you further, just ask...


----------



## GramB

*Train running OK added a blast furnace*

Thanks so much for all the advice! In honor of having the train running for the grandsons this year, I made a simple blast furnace! I grew up in a small steel town, the trains all ran to the mill, and I thought it was time the boys started learning about all of that. This train still needs future work and upgrades, but what a marvelous time this year! :appl:


----------



## flyernut

wonderful....:appl:


----------

