# DCC sound without mounting in Engine: Idea



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

I was asking about DCC sound installation the other day at my local hobby shop, because the engine they showed me once (N scale) was so impressive with the sound. They said that I wouldn't be happy with a modded engine because the sound wouldn't be loud enough. The one they had showed me initially was a factory loco with factory sound setup. Of course if I wanted the Kato to have sound I'd also have to have the chsssis milled out to accept the speaker and then drill holes underneath it - not too pleasing a proposition.

So here's my idea. I've done research on this, and I know that two decoders can be set to the same address. For a relatively small layout, why couldn't a decoder w/sound be set to the same address as the decoder (non-sound) in the engine you want to associate it with. Mount the decoder and speaker into a small building set up to act as a good speaker housing in the central part of the layout, and wire it to the rails. This should produce good sound and since it's in the middle shouldn't be too much of a concern as far as location goes relative to the running engine.

Thoughts?


----------



## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

xrunner,
Sure that would work just fine but of course the sound will not go around the track with the train. If you are ok with that then go for it. Another option to consider is to put a sound decoder in a box car or other sacrificial rolling stock. At least the sound will travel with the engine around the track.
-Art


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I will agree and disagree with your LHS. I have done a lot of DCC installs and sound too. There are a lot of factors that come into play with a sound install. Most can it be done!, but only some can be done right!About 3/4 of the newer engines have aftermarket sound boards that just drop right in!
Another option is to install the sound in a boxcar and have it follow the engine around. 
If you just want train sounds, There are sound systems out there that do a much better job than a little decoder sound system can do!


----------



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Artieiii said:


> Sure that would work just fine but of course the sound will not go around the track with the train. If you are ok with that then go for it.


I think I want to try it. I don't really think that it's going to pose a major realism issue in my case. If my tracks went all around the room or some such then it wouldn't work as well.



NIMT said:


> I will agree and disagree with your LHS. I have done a lot of DCC installs and sound too. There are a lot of factors that come into play with a sound install. Most can it be done!, but only some can be done right!About 3/4 of the newer engines have aftermarket sound boards that just drop right in!


I know the DCC sound board will drop in my Kato GE C44-9W - that's not the issue. It's the speaker that causes the milling and drilling of holes in an otherwise perfectly good case. Drill baby drill.



> If you just want train sounds, There are sound systems out there that do a much better job than a little decoder sound system can do!


Any examples?


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I've been planning to install sound in one of my diesels a while ago and the idea of milling the frame didn't please me much either.It wasn't that much the cost as I could do it myself but it was that the loco would lose precious weight thus pulling cababilities.The end result would be the necessity to constantly double-head it,wich isn't too bad but still...

Then I got the boxcar idea wich is good with one drawback though...boxcars don't have any current carrying capability so wipers would have to be engineered to supply the decoder and,though possible,seemed somewhat complicated and likely unreliable.

Then I had this other idea...take a cheaper or defective loco,remove the motor and gears,mill the frame as necessary so that there would be enough room for the decoder/speaker assembly.A powered loco already has the conductors so that should be an easy modification.I'd then just have to consist it with another loco with a matched adress and go.This setup could also use a "sound only" decoder and could be consisted with any loco with only reprogramming its adress.

I've since turned my interest towards steamers and decided to sell my diesels so I dropped the idea but I believe it should be a worthwile option for N scale diesels.


----------



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Brakeman Jake said:


> I've been planning to install sound in one of my diesels a while ago and the idea of milling the frame didn't please me much either.It wasn't that much the cost as I could do it myself but it was that the loco would lose precious weight thus pulling cababilities.The end result would be the necessity to constantly double-head it,wich isn't too bad but still.


This issue reminds me of way back in the day when a Soundblaster board for a computer was a new fun thing to get. Sound for a computer? What a novel idea. Are computers supposed to make sounds? Hmmm...Now I don't even think you can buy a motherboard or complete computer without a sound chip built-in. 

Locomotives are _supposed_ to make sounds. It's 2011, and we have the technology. It's about time they start selling all these models with a built-in sound as a factory option just like computers. At least make the chassis with a space for a small speaker.

C'mon model train industry!


----------



## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

I agree with you on this one xrunner. Some of the Kato HO models have aftermarket drop in soundboards and a place to mount the speaker. I wish more model train companies would offer more models like this. They should have high end models available with DCC and sound built in as well as lower end models that are DCC and sound "ready" with a speaker holder. The average modeler does not really want to solder and organize a bunch of wires to hide in the shell.
-Art


----------



## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Xrunner
I forgot to mention that my Bachmann GS4 SP daylight had DCC on board. It had speaker holes in the tender an was a very clean install for sound. I switched out the bachmann chip to a digitrax SDH164D and it was easy to do. It would not cost anything for the manufacturer to put a speaker enclosure in there for an even better sound transformation.
-Art


----------



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Artieiii said:


> It would not cost anything for the manufacturer to put a speaker enclosure in there for an even better sound transformation.


The thing that bothers me about the installation in my Kato is the milling out of the frame for a place to install the speaker. I'm pretty sure the manufacturer has determined the best specific weight for it's model. I don't like the idea of removing weight (not to mention drilling holes underneath the frame for the sound to come out). The sound needs to come out the top. There are vents modeled all over the top, they just aren't really open vents. I just think they could make it ready for sound if they really wanted to. I mean, went sent men to the Moon ...


----------



## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Was this Kato engine made without DCC installed? It is possible that Kato made the engine before DCC and sound decoders were widely made for N scale and thus the alck of readyness. Also for them to make it sound ready they would have already milled out what you are planning to do so either way it would be a loss in weight but the speaker and decoder weigh some so it is not completely lost. and if it comes out the bottom it should still sound fine. You may just not get the same high piched sounds as if it came out the top and instead the bottom.


----------



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gc53dfgc said:


> Was this Kato engine made without DCC installed? It is possible that Kato made the engine before DCC and sound decoders were widely made for N scale and thus the alck of readyness.


It's a brand new Kato GE C44-9W, and is fully DCC ready, you simply have to buy a drop-in replacement board for the light board in there now. However, as I am stating, it is not DCC-sound ready - meaning there is no place for a speaker. The DCC sound board would drop in just like the non-sound capable DCC board - it's the speaker that kills the deal.



> Also for them to make it sound ready they would have already milled out what you are planning to do so either way it would be a loss in weight but the speaker and decoder weigh some so it is not completely lost. and if it comes out the bottom it should still sound fine. You may just not get the same high piched sounds as if it came out the top and instead the bottom.


Well according to the hobby shop - who does these installs and has a guy that mills out the chassis, "I won't be happy with the sound volume", and I'm not about to go to all that trouble just to see if they know what they are talking about.

I simply don't agree that the room inside can't be re-engineered by the manufacturer to make room for a speaker. I have had the thing apart and there are empty spaces in there - the spaces are here and there as suits the current way they decided to use the space inside the shell, it's a matter of engineering the space to the optimal degree. They just haven't done that yet.


----------



## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Well I have only done DCC or DCC/Sound installs on HO scale engines which required a lot of milling out of metal. I have done some with the sound out the top which was way to loud at factory decoder level and needed to be turned down a lot and through the bottom which is about the same jsut not requiring as much of a sound tweak. This is N scale so everything is smaller. I find it annoying after a while with an engine at factory sound volume running. I don't see a need for it to be that loud as I don't want to be able to hear it over a mile or two away in prototypicalness I can easily hear mine from across 8 feet at the level so if it is an N scale speaker I would imagine that at full volume (if you needed it) you would easily be able to hear it. There is no way you will ever know for sure if adding sound would be a good option for it unless you do. I have done that with several engines, some better then others but at least I learned what works and what does not.


----------



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Brainstorming ... I'm thinking of an iPhone or other similar phone. The speaker used in them must be very thin and small - yet it can be used as a speakerphone meaning you can hear it well when not placed against the ear. Why can't something like that be used in our trains?


----------



## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Possibly because they are a different Ohm, wattage, amperage. A number of factors. The speakers for them may be thin but they are going to use the same amount of space as one made for N scale anyways in size. I will see if I can find pictures of the speakers in an Iphone and then will let you know.

Looked at the speaker it uses. It is a small round billet that is the entire thickness of the Ipone so it will most likely not work. I also found it strange how almost everything in the Iphone is made by different companys and it is outrageously overpriced by roughly 400 dollars.


----------



## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

A cool idea would be to run your trains with WiThrottle and have the train sounds in the WiThrottle application. Then when you hit the horn button it plays the train sound through your iPhone  Just a thought.
-Art


----------



## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Might be a good option for N scale but i prefer the good old handheld wireless units or a wired system. Eliminates any possibilitys of a failure of the phone or the signals.


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I own both Athearn sound equipped Big Boy and Challenger and neither does feature visible sound outlets and yet both can be heard quite sufficiently at a reasonable distance.As someone said,an N scale loco that could be heard from 20 feet away wouldn't sound right to my ear.Sound volume isn't much a concern,not as much as sound quality wich in some cases is questionable,to say the least.

But competition being what it is,I believe manufacturers are working on the design and it wont be long before most N scale locos will be sold "sound ready".You already can have a few models that come sound equipped.


----------



## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I was reading a model railroader and this guy added an MRC Sound decoder to an N scale GG-1 and used a little button tab speaker that was incredibly small. Go look on MRCs site and see if you can find what speaker was used and if it will work in your engine.


----------



## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*sound exiting loco plastic shell*

One way that I know of; for sound to exit the shell of a locomotive is to install or modify the 
plastic shell using parts by details west. for example, and there are a host of others that make grills, radiators and roof fans that are open, which let sound waves exit the diesel shell.
That way the only modifications are done to the plastic shell and the diesel is detailed toot y
Checkout the Diesel Detailer Good luck,
tr1


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Sound quality can actually be better in some cases by not giving the sound and easy out. 

In N scale (what these guys all run) it's almost always a space issue not a sound outlet issue, and it's also not easy to alter the body on an N scale engine, like it is an HO.


----------

