# atlas apex and hypotenuse layout



## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

looking for help again for anyone familiar with this layout . this layout has a reverse loop . I'm not going to do this now . question 1 . put insulating rail joiners in anyway . question 2 . if ok to set up this way , dcc wiring for the layout .
thanks again .
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I see two reverse loops.









I would do insulators but as far as DCC, I don't know why you couldn't. I maybe missing your question.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*reason*

the only reason was that just in case at later date I might want to do that .(reverse loops) but for now bypass doing
reverting loops .
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Okay so you want to do this:









What was the other question?


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Duplicate post


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I think I understand what you are asking. You want to build the plan as drawn but isolate the two reversing sections and a later date put them into service. Treat them as an isolated section or abandoned track. Is this correct? If so, by all means put insulators at both ends of both rails on both sections.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*thank you*

thx you, that was exactly what I was asking .
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Great. Here is where I would put the insulators:








Is this an up-and-over plan or are those crossings in the lower center?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I got dizzy just looking at this layout and got lost
a couple of times drawing it out with red and black
for the rails.

I agree with Bewells identification of the need for
two isolated sections. However, they are far too
short as he has shown. An isolated section must be longer than the longest lighted passenger train. 

To meet those requirements, 
I would place the insulated joiners as follows:

1. In both, the straight and divert rails of the turnout in
inner loop, lower left.
2. Beyond the middle turnout in the inner loop.

3. After both the divert and straight rails
in the turnout outer loop bottom left.

4. About midway of the inner loop right side.
(Important: Do not permit the two isolated
sections to abut in the inner loop)

So that's 6 points where insulated joiners would
be required.

Isolated section A includes the two legs of the
inner loop and part of that loop.

Isolated section B is similar to A in that it also
has 2 legs and a part of the inner loop

You would, of course require 2 reverse loop
controllers.

Don


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Don, I took it that the OP wanted to build this plan and get it running without the reverse loops. He was going to do them later, I think. Still not sure on what he wants. I followed your instructions as far as I could and came up with this. Is this what you mean?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, Dennis, you have it right in your latest
post. The two isolated sections cannot
abut. There must be, again, a section long enough to
accomodate the longest lighted passenger train between the
isolated sections. It takes power from the main bus.

Consider, a loco truck spans Iso A and Iso B joiners, there is
a short circuit.

Don


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

really appreciate the help ( from the gurus ) this site has . wish I could start over reading and doing all the things you need to know when I jumped into this hobby .thanks to all of you I am starting to get on the right track( no pun intended ) . thank you all again .
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*adding width*

after seeing how close they show switches at the edge , I'm working to clear some space to add width to my 4 x 10 . only going to be able to add about 6 inches but I believe it will help .
want to try to make inside loops 22 r . the other thing I noticed is in bill of material they say 5 left and 5 rights for turnouts and I think I counted right from layout , I need 6 lefts ( only have 5 ) , that sucks .
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Adding width will help, you maybe able to do 18 on the inside loop. I think the plan called for 15. The grade for the up and over will still be stiff.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*layout*

another thing is I didn't cut the apex , left it 4 ft across . ill try and use the basic layout and try to help myself wherever I can with the curves .
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

another thing is I didn't cut the apex... What does that mean?
left it 4 ft across.. You mentioned adding 6 inches to the width.

Are you doing this with sectional track or flex?


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*apex*

sorry what I meant was that the base is shown to be at a taper cut to a point at both ends of the layout . I didn't make those cuts so right now my base is 4 ft x 10 ft . wish I were more computer adept and I could post a picture of the base as atlas shows it in their book . I'm going to use as much flex as I can . 
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Can you post a link to whatever you are looking at?


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*atlas layout*

in the book both ends of the layout come to a point . they make a 10 ft length layout from an eight foot long pc of plywood . I used another pc of plywood 2 ft long to make the 10 ft . I didn't make the cuts so my base is rectangular . this gives me a little more fudge room at the corners . the layout has 2 turnouts that are shown sitting at the very edge . I want to add a little more width to eliminate that .
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*layout*

bwells, ill try to run picture of the base ( atlas ho king size layout book layout ho- #32 ) . your picture showing the reverse loop and the basic of the track layout is correct . ill try to scan the picture of table bade .
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*picture*

trying to attach picture 
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*radius*

book says all 18 except has some 22 r lead in to 18s.
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Mike, as drawn the inside loops are 15 radius. Here is what I found with the track package. You can see there is 15 in there.
https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-44241-ho-32-apex-hypotenuse.aspx


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*thank you*

thanks for help bwells . I will widen the layout and see if I can do better than 15 r . and thanks for the link.
mike


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

My opinion only, but too many crossings-at-grade too close together...


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

I probably should have posted questions here instead of dcc (b wells ) was trying to help me out . right now the base of my layout is 4 x 10 . I have 15 deg radius on inside of layout . if I add 8 inches to the width could I gain enough to do 18 deg on the inside track ? is there a way that you calculate this ? I don't have any track planning software in case someone suggests . as I said before any help appreciated .
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

There is only one crossing in the lower left. The other four are below the track above.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Merged threads and moved to correct forum.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*thx to bwells*

thank you for your help . I thought maybe the direction this was heading in , I posted new question in the layout section , but thx again for everyones input.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Increasing the width to 56" will help. With 18" radius loop on the left you will have 36" diameter, subtract this from your 56" and that leaves you with 20" split between the top and bottom. Even with an 18' radius on the left loop, you are looking at a grade bigger than 3% and approaching 4% with easements, maybe more. Real tuff on a steamer.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*width increase*

bwells ,I went ahead and increased width a foot . I lose a little as I have a post right about middle of the layout ( at the edge ) . I have the pcs all cut , ill lose about 8 inch to be on either side of post so I end with 5 X 10 base - the little bit for post .
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Excellent, that should make this plan doable. What exactly does the post have to do with the area? Is it a post holding up a floor above that you have to build around?


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*post*

exactly , this is a post that holds up the floor I beam . I just finished attaching the 1 foot extensions to the base and it looks pretty good . starting to get excited again . I'm 75 now so maybe last layout I do . want grandkids to be able to run . I will still put reversing jointers in but will mess with that at a later time . 
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Good grief! Any way you can place the layout so that this dreaded post is located at any of the three x's?









John Allen had the same problem and he built around it and called it the devils post pile.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*post*

thx again bwells trying to help me out . ill try and draw you a picture what the base looks like now , so maybe better understanding . the slot is at the outside edge of the layout about 5 ft to the left of the rt side .
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*drew with my finger*

best I could do


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Five feet puts it dead center. Pull the layout as far as you can against the post and you will need to run the three tracks around it. I'm at a lose here.

Edit: Do you have a smart phone that will take a picture and then post it here?


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*layout*

I should be able to push layout away from post now . where atlas has the bridge is a gap and I think I can make it work . 
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Okay. I don't know where there is a bridge but if you're okay with it, have at it.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*big thank you bwells*

thx for input , have a lot more room now to move things around and believe I can get the curves to minimum of 18 deg.
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

18 inch radius, not degree. I understand what you mean, just picking on ya!


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*picking on me*

u can pick on me whenever u want . I have the base framing all done and ready to string buss wire . plan on finishing that tomorrow . 
mike


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