# Track Layout Problems



## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm new to this too and I have put together an H.O layout. The problem I'm having is weird. When testing out the track continuity I first ran my 2-3-0 Life Like Steam locomotive. First it ran fine and then a minutes later, t the turnout the engine bumps and the pilot wheels and at times the driver wheels derails. Plus the 30 degree crossover will work fine with certain engines but not with others. I want to make sure the rack is fine before I tack it down.

2.) track nails? Does everyone use them? What other ways to hold the roadbed and tracks in place. ( glue.pins)

It is really frustrating when one moment the train run smoothly and then derails. 
Frustrating.

Oh, how do you gauge between Code 100 and 83?


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## optronomega (Aug 17, 2011)

may want to pick up an nmra track guage to test the track and make sure it's spaced correctly. It also has a part to check the wheel guage on the locomotive. They make transition connectors to go between code 100 and 83. I've found they can be annoying to work with and just stuck to code 83 track. 

As for attaching the track, i used silicone to attach the roadbed and then used nails to temporarily hold the track in place until i ballasted.


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks for the tips. When you are ready to pour the ballast is that enough to hold the tracks and everything?
Oh, what are Frogs?


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## optronomega (Aug 17, 2011)

yup ballast once glued is strong enough to hold everything in place. I used silicon on the roadbed in case i needed to pull it back up later. Frogs are the parts of a switch that are electrically separated. Unless you have a switch machine they normally aren't powered. Are you in the phoenix area?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

lilpuu said:


> Thanks for the tips. When you are ready to pour the ballast is that enough to hold the tracks and everything?
> Oh, what are Frogs?



This is a picture of the frog,


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

No, I'm located in Prescott. There is no place around here for train accessories.
I have Atlas remote switches on turnouts and I will wire them to a power supply to switch the racks.


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks for the photo. Now let's see if I know what it is. The frog is those small pieces that joins or separate the rails?


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

I don't think I know what a frog really does, and when I would use them.


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

Full of questions.... If my trains run at slow speeds would that be a good indication that my electrical connections are good enough to move forward? That is the most important part on building a layout wouldn't you say? I'm picking up a DCC train and Tsunami sound system


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

lilpuu said:


> I don't think I know what a frog really does, and when I would use them.


The frog is in the center of the switch in the picture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_switch


Edit, scroll down in the link to the frog paragraph.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Problem 1 "Life Like engine". Poor power pickup ability and poor quality.
Amount of electrical pick up wheels effects which engines like which tracks.
Your probably only feeding power to the rails from one point?
When you do DCC that is not a good option, you need to feed power to the rails at several points, I use 3 feet as an average.
Code 100 is the tallier size rails and code 83 is shorter..if you want to connect the two together, they sell special transition rail joiner to get that done.
Easiest way to attach the cork or foam roadbed and track to the layout is to use Latex caulking. Quick simple and easy clean up! Bonus if you need to remove track or roadbed, putty knife will remove it all super easy and still leave it reusable!
We are former AZ'ers, we've been up here in Idaho for about 2 1/2 years, A lot cooler up here and a whole lot less people to deal with!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

NIMT said:


> A lot cooler up here and a whole lot less people to deal with!


That's not necessarily a good thing all through the year!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

As long as I'm in the house working on the trains it's all good!
OK, besides when I've got the kids dragging me up and down the road on a sled!:laugh: 
I've got 6 cords of dry, cut, split and stacked hardwood and a cord of kindling for starter wood all in the wood shed ready for winter!:wood:
My heat is all wood stove all winter long, so having that all done takes a huge load off the brain!:retard:
The weather is a turning and soon it will be wet and cold and unlike last year, I won't be out fighting the trees all winter long to make heat!
Garden tractor for snow blower has been completely gone threw!
Just a few minor repairs to the snow blower and I'm ready for the white stuff to come and attack!
lilpuu Sorry for the thread derail! We kind of do that here.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I'm never ready for the white stuff, and we had too much last year, and they're talking about more this year!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Thankfully it only snowed where I live once last year. My wife and I both had Camaros at the time. Yea those are great cars for driving in the snow. Well last summer we sold my Camaro and bought a 98 Chev half ton. I got it fitted with all weather shoes so we should be good to go.

Now about the trains.
Derailing can be many things and before you try to teach your engines how to fly, stop look and listen.

The derailing event may take place before the switch but the switch is were the train actually falls off the rails. find the slowest speed that the train will derail and get your eyes down to track level and watch. 

I had an engine that would derail in the same spot every time no matter how fast I was going. It fell off the rails at a switch over and over. None of the other engines did this. what I found out was two things were happening at the same time. 1 the engine would walk the front wheel off the rails about 3 or 4 feet before the switch in a curve that was not laid very well. and that would set up the front truck from falling off the switch. Now this engine did this becase the front wheels of the truck were too far appart. That was the second cause of failure. I also noticed that this engine would not derail if it was going long hood forward.

On the same advise I just gave you I watched the engine from the time it entered the curve to the switch and found the area where the tracks were pinched a little (flex track can do this if not laid right) and because this was the only engine and it only did it going one way I decided to get out the NMRA gauge and check it over. YUP one set of wheels were too far apart. A couple of fixes later and I am rolling good.

Massey


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

I apologized Massey, I have so many questions that at times I duplicate my questions. Please ignore them if I do it again. I appreciate all the tips from all of you. As you can see, I'm not good at this but hope by your tips will will.

By the replies I think I will go with changing my 18" tracks to the 22" and move to the 2-8-2 or something to that effect. Now, the hard part is finding a good Locomotive with the Tsunami sounds. I was thinking of the Bachamnn Spectrum that has the Tsunami on board. But everyone is out of them.

As for the tips on the derailing. Great advise, I was watching the derailing at the slowest speed but dang if it frustrating at times. But I changed layout configuration and now it works okay.

I'm waiting for my track nails and then I will glue the ballast onto the tracks to finalize the layout. 

Thanks again for all those who helped. 
Stay tune for other questions.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

You realize that you can just glue the track to the cork roadbed, right? You don't necessarily need the track nails or ballast (yet). I use Alene's Tacky Glue (cheap, available at Walmart, dries clear and stays flexible.) When you glue it, just insert thumbtacks every 4 inches or so to hold the track firmly down to the roadbed while it's drying. I simply put glue on every 3rd tie (flip track over and apply glue directly to track.) It ends up squeezing up around the ties a little bit which, when dry, holds everything in place real nice. 

With the stage you're in I would hold off on ballast, etc. until you have your engines running reliably on the track. Once you ballast it's a bear to change anything..If you glue the track down and it doesn't work, you can simply peel it up off the roadbed, give the roadbed a quick scrub with some 40 grit sandpaper and re-glue it down in whatever position you want.


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

Good tip SST! I think I will hold off until I get my new Locomotive...

It is the waiting game again


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

If you're using flextrack, every 12 ties or so there is a small hole in the center of the tie. pushpins fit into those holes almost perfect and they will keep your track aligned left/right as well. I always put a few pins in between those (like I said - every 3-4 inches) to make sure there is a good bond between the track/roadbed.

In general - the larger the radius you can go with the better. Not only with engines run better on larger curves, they'll have less hangover on the inside of the curve and will look better.


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

Every time I try to finalize my track I get a problem. I managed to lay my tracks on good angles but now my trains and cars derail. The remote switch on one when a diesel runs over the switch it hits a bump right where the plastic is. I filed some of the plastic down and it works one in a while. Ten I noticed when the trains rolls between the switching rail the wheels hit the inside track and throws the car of the track. I thought these switches were made to work and no work needed to make it work right. Wrong! Some times the plastic is to high and my diesel undercarriage rolls over it derailing it. 

Whenever I feel that the track is ready to be sealed another crap with the track issue comes up. This is suppose to be simple. I have no kinks, so it has to be that the cars are to light.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

lilpuu,
Seal the track?
Bump where plastic is?
Little lost here!


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## lilpuu (Sep 25, 2011)

lilpuu,
Seal the track? With Ballast
Bump where plastic is? Remote turnouts, Train hits the center plastic rail where the rails are to high. I had to file the plastic down in order for the diesel keep in contact with the metal rails.

Little lost here! Your' lost!  Not that easy to just connect them and off you go.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I hate to say it lilpuu....I'm confused too. Can you take a picture of what you're referring to? There isn't a center rail in HO (are you talking about the guide rails as it goes through a turnout?) If your wheels are hitting that, they have to be out of gauge (too narrow) The wheel flange should ride just inside the rails, but not so far that the flange can hit guiderails.

If you're still having trouble with derailments, hold off on ballasting. Get it working 100% before you add the ballast. It's only an appearance item and you'll regret ballasting too soon if you have to tear up some track to fix an operational issue.

I really suspect that your wheels are out of gauge. (REAL easy to check/fix with an NMRA gauge)


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

It sounds to me like he is talking about the frog or the guide rail. If either one of them are popped up where the engine is hitting then something is wrong with the switch, or the snow plow is way too low. I may be wrong but I am just guessing here. Snap a pic of the problem spot so we can see where you are talking about.

Massey


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