# Train is "slipping"



## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

So, I have my Christmas layout about 75% finished. I did all of the wiring of the track and switches last night. It took a few tries to get the auto-switching correct on them, but everything is now working mostly smoothly! YAY!

The engine and tender go around the track just fine, it gets a little slow at the far end, but I'll just add another lockon to take care of that. 

I added three cars behind the tender - Sunoco tanker, log dump car, wrecking car - and all of a sudden the train seems to be slipping. I don't know how to describe it better than that. Like the wheels are spinning faster on the rails than the train is moving. The engine does not have magnetraction.

The rails are freshly polished with a Scotch Brite pad. The engine was serviced in September and has had about ten minutes of time on the track since then. 

What can I do to get it going? I can't imagine a engine the size and weight of mine should be having trouble pulling four cars!! I'll post a video in a couple minutes.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Here's the first attempt at a video... lol

http://youtu.be/eUBZrLh7A0M


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

This one shows it a little better

http://youtu.be/bcEe45jTzp4


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What specific model is this? Does it have traction tires? Did you try rolling the cars and see how free they roll without the locomotive? Perhaps you need to service the cars?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What specific model is this? Does it have traction tires? Did you try rolling the cars and see how free they roll without the locomotive? Perhaps you need to service the cars?


It's a 2020, no traction tires, no magnatraction

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_2020_loco.htm

Variation A with the plug in directional unit and the smoke bulb.

The cars seem to roll easily, the Sunoco and log cars weigh next to nothing. The wrecker (http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_6119-75_caboose.htm) has some weight to it, but doesn't feel like it's rolling all that stiff.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That locomotive should have no problem pulling the cars. I'd check to see if the leading or trailing trucks on the locomotive are lifting the drive wheels off the track. Clearly, something is amiss if it won't pull four cars!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Also, wipe the track down with alcohol, sometime a bit of oil drips on it and instant slippage.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

It has no problem when there are no cars behind it, but there is probably so little weight that it wouldn't matter? 

By "trucks" do you mean the sets of six wheels that are in the front and back of the engine? Those are loose and free moving (and a major pain in the neck to get back on the rails when they get caught in a switch!)


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Was the throttle consistent throughout the video. It's normal for trains to slow down on the curves. But the straight runs, not so much. Can you check power with a voltmeter to make sure the connections are good? Is the cat scaring the train? I didn't see it slipping, I was looking at the wheels but it did slow and speed up some?! It could be a power issue.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

I'll make another video when I get home tonight after I hook up the second lockon. I did not leave it on constant power because the fall off is so bad at the far end, I didn't think of that. 


On a side note, I was commenting to a friend how funny it is that my stupid cat just sits there and watches a train go round and round and round and round... then I realized what I just said.... 

LOL


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

It looks like you are running 6 wheels in the middle. On 0-27 curves that is a pushing it. Also the alcohol thing is a go idea. Oil buildup would have that effect. The engine sounds alittle rough. I would try some contact cleaner in the e-unit. If you know how to take the shell off I would start there. Clean any grease off and re lube. If you listen you can hear the e-unit making a racket.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

It's 8 wheels in the middle, it's an O27 engine though, so I'd assume that it would be fine?

I had the engine overhauled in September at a local shop, so if there's something wrong with it it's going back to the shop... I can't say that I know exactly what I'm listening for though.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

LMFAO, thanks for that!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The noise from the loco sounds normal. The Pullmor motors are noisy.

To clean the track of oil and grease, I recommend you fold up some paper towels and attach them to the bottom of a heavy car using rubber bands. Put some isopropyl alcohol on them and run them around the track until the towels don't get very dirty. Take the towels off the car periodically and refold them to expose a relatively clean surface. If you can, put the cars behind the car with the paper towels so that the wheels of the cars get cleaned also. 

The loco will normally slow down in the curves due to the fact that the drivers have to slip to go around the curves. The outside rail is longer than the inside rail. 

Did you lube the cars? If they are post war cars with wheels that turn on an axle, they need some lube (motor oil). Your loco should pull 10 cars without a problem.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

I did not lube the cars, I'll do that tonight. Yes, they are all post-war cars. Just a drop on the axel? 

I'll do the rubbing alcohol after I finish with the track tonight. I have a few more wires to run and then I can hook up the log loader and operating track. Then all I have to do is screw everything down and the cat and I can watch it go round and round and round and round and round


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

Dang. I feel like a retard. I was under the impression that anything with more then 4 wheels in the middle on 0-27 was not a good idea. On a lighter note I can now buy trains that I have been avoiding from said misinformation.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Crofinger said:


> Dang. I feel like a retard. I was under the impression that anything with more then 4 wheels in the middle on 0-27 was not a good idea. On a lighter note I can now buy trains that I have been avoiding from said misinformation.


Trust me, I've spent a LOT of time feeling like that over the last three months!! :laugh:

If you look at the Tandem Associates page, it tells you the wheel counts and what track they can run on.
http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionellocomotives.htm


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I lube the wheels (and axles). I also lube the coupler which makes it work a lot better. Lube the end of the flat spring that keeps the coupler closed. I also lube the bolster that the truck swivel on.


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

great engine! It is the model I had as a kid. I did not notice slipping in your video. I recall that my 2020 had trouble pulling more than about 5 cars without a little slipping. We had a slight grade in one section, and it would not go up it unless it had a good speed going into it. My dad compensated by buying set of NYC F3s with Magnetraction. He then built a ramp up to a second level track! the 2020 would not go up the ramp, but it would ski down.


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## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

Put little tires on the wheels and host a Lionel burn-out contest.


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

I have the 671 version of the same engine. 1946-smoke bulb , no e-unit switch through the cab. Mine spins like a crazy once I get up past 4 or 5 cars, especially the heavier early metal cars. It helps to keep the wheels and track really clean, I think leftover fluids from the smoke bulb make it to the track pretty easily.
Randy


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

And when you take another video lock up the ***** cat.
It is kind of hard to see the train through the cat. 

Edit, whoops I didn't see the second one.

They say that the motor is supposed to sound like that? :dunno:
I am glad none of mine sound like that, sounds like gears getting ground up. :smokin:

In the second video was that running at full power?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

No, the power was variable. I'll run it constant later after I hook up the additional power drops.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

now that ed mentioned it, and listening to it on your other post it does sound a bit rough. Ill check mine out tomorrow to see what it sounds like. I never broke mine down yet, I was afraid of loosing the bearings!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

michelle, I got mine up and running, I tried to post a video but now I cant seem to upload to you tube. anyway mine dosent sound that rough. I have the 671, I hooked up three box cars( operating) , a work caboose, Crain car, gondola , coal car, whistle tender, and caboose. It pulled great, it slipped a bit when first getting going, but then at 13 amps ran fine up a grade and around my track which is all 0. it did slow a bit on the turns as to be expected. Hope that helps some.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

For the 671's and 2020's Lionel used to make a kit. It consisted of a weight block and screws to add more weight to an already heavy engine. http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos%5Cloc671p5.pdf

Carl


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

sjm,
You better hope the loco is not pulling 13 amps as it would soon release the magic death smoke. Did you mean volts?

IMHO, 13 volts is a bit high for that loco. When was it lubed and what was it lubed with? Motor oil is the preferred lube for all Lionel rolling stock. Are the cars lubed?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

servoguy, volts, and the cars haven't been cleaned properly , they were just the easiest to get to. still rusty.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Ok, here are a couple more videos

Lionel postwar 2020 - This one I left on constant, 15 volts. The switches get 10.
http://youtu.be/f8K5s9C6sig

Lionel prewar 1684 - 15 sends it off the track, so it's about 12. Switches still on 10. The switches throw the front truck off the rails a lot of the time, so you may see sparks. and no, it's not silent, I think my finger was over the microphone.
http://youtu.be/EAPqtd6R3zQ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Just embed them here, copy everything in the video you tube address bar after the = sign.
Come back here and click the you tube icon you get {yt}{yt} paste what you copied in between it. It will be embedded.

It looks like it runs good/
well to me? Sounds better too.


Now hook the cars to show it "slipping".


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Look at that! I never noticed the YouTube link, I usually post from the "quick reply" thanks!

I'll post more when I get home, I'm off to the train store to have a "discussion" with them about my log loader.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

let's see if this works, my turbine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYrucaRGb_o&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Yours runs a lot smoother than mine does. And I covet all of your accessories.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I actually posted a video link that works!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> let's see if this works, my turbine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYrucaRGb_o&feature=youtube_gdata_player


You didn't blow the whistle!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

My guess is the 027 curves. If you are using them. It's a lot of engine for the small curve.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Almost all of my track is O27, but it's an O27 engine so it should be ok. 

Someone else brought up the weight issue and that makes a lot of sense actually.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Some locomotives are rated for track they can't handle, this may be one of those cases.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

My 736 will run on O-27 track but not go through 1122 switches. I think the turbine has smaller wheels than the 736. My guess is that whoever serviced the loco didn't do it right. Michelle, I suggest that you should pull the shell off and check things like the lube on the worm gear and the backlash setting on the worm gear. If the backlash is too tight, you will get some noise. BTW, this should be an easy thing to do. The 736 shell comes off with 3 screws. No need to remove the connecting rods.


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