# I'm cheap



## Aminnich

Hey guys. I am wondering what everyone else uses to save some money. Like what do you use that is not from the hobby store that you use that does the same thing as the "hobby" product.


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## CTValleyRR

Where do we start? Matte and Gloss media bought at a craft store with the weekly 50% off one item coupon. Sedum. Extruded foam insulating boards, especially scraps from a construction site. Electrical wire from radio shack. Sticks and rocks from the back yard. Poly fiber from JoAnnes and gray or green spray paint from Wal Mart. People have used coffee grounds, dried leaves, dirt, and kitty litter. Paint from the home improvement center -- especially the cheap stuff that someone returned.

Make your own decals and signs on your printer. Buy figures unpainted and paint them yourself. Buy kits instead of ready to run. Know what you want, and wait for a sale to buy it.

That'll get things kicked off. Who's next?


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## sanepilot

*train stuff free*

Hi,Go to a cabinet shop, ask for the plywood pieces and thin wood from their scrap bin.They have some thin pieces they use for the backs of cabinets.Theyve always give it to me as they have to pay a trash man to haul it away.Flea mkts,yard sales,I`ve picked up quite a bunch of buildings,track cars and so forth.Find you a woodworker and have him saw you some thin strips [probably free] for framing. The possiblities are endless. 


Whatever you do,have fun-sanepilot:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Fire21

I've made my own grades using foam board, patterned after the ones you see in hobby stores. Just cut an inclined straight length, use a hack saw to cut into the sides if going around a corner, and bend it into place. My wife had some jars of old dead spices, nutmeg, cinnamon, other ground up spices...I claimed them to use as ground cover. I've gotten lots of wire from the phone company and use it as track drops and other things.


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## DonR

I'm German. I know how to be creatively cheap.

Watch the for sale or trade section here on the Forum,
Craigslist and Ebay for special values in train gear.

You can find inexpensive paper covered 1/4" foam sheets in
the craft section of Walmart. Comes in black, white
and colors. Great for foam
base over plywood. Their crafts also have a
fantastic array of colors in water based paints that are very
cheap. Use a plastic bottle cap & toothpick stirrer to mix them to get
an exact color you want. I use their poster board to scratch build
buildings.

Michael's sells special fine sand for use in fake
potted plants for little money. It's ideal, for
coal and sand car loads and to use as
gravel or roughage in scenery. They also 
sell various types of bagged greenery that
works well for weeds and the like. Much
cheaper than W/S products.

Fine grade sandpaper makes ideal roofing
for buildings and some is good for roadways.

Toilet paper and paper towel centers can be used
for a number of construction projects, silos, oil
and gas facilities. 

The plastic cap for rattle cans is great to make
a city water tank. Put a red LED on top along
with a straight 4" wire as communications radio
antenna. 

Keep your eye out for unusual plastic things that
you can use in scenery projects. They can 
populate a junk yard or when 'crated' make
great freight loads.

I have a dead HO loco motor tied down on
balsa skids on a flat car. A new generator
for the power plant.

I once wired a whole elaborate N scale layout
with the color coded wires from abandoned
office telephone cables.

Don


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## sjm9911

Dollar stores! Especially dollar tree. Trees at Christmas time, I actually saw a green sand there this week would have made a nice grass. They sell stuff for fake plants too good for bushes , grfound cover. Ditto on the sticks , plants and such from the yard. Ive made trees from dried plants, I coated them in poly. Cat litter, I painted it , let it dry , then glued it down. And its thrifty not cheap! Save on the build more money for trains!


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## CTValleyRR

Don reminded me of another: masking tape painted black and black construction paper make good roofing materials. Asphalt shingles can be made from cardstock using scissors.


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## sjm9911

And you reminded me of my roadbed, Actuall asphalt shingles.


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## broox

Plaster of paris mix from bunnings + chux style dishcloths ... 
Perfect substitute for woodlands scenics (or similar) plaster cloth :sly:

Wasn't terrible :thumbsup:


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## Old_Hobo

Aminnich said:


> I'm cheap


Well, you are a model railroader, so.......


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## Aminnich

Wow guys those are all great ideas! Personally (so far) I made my own incline from scrap pieces of wood from my schools wood shop, I found old wire, so I used that as feeder wire. I bought 12 pieces of foam ( 3ft x 4.5ft x 2.5in) for $12. This is currently my mountain. Idk, I just wanted to know what you creative model rail road-ers do to save a few bucks


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## jhoff310

here's some more "cheap" for you guys

Plastic coffee stir sticks...I usually grab a small handfull when I get my coffee...painted gray make a great guardrail.

Free styrene--I hit up my local gas station. They change their signage on the 1st of the month. I have 2 "bankers boxes" full of styrene of varying thicknesses and sizes.

I make my own ground foam. If I see a couch or chair on the side of the road, I stop and grab the cushion...cut it into chunks and squeeze paint into it, once its dry I hit it with a wire wheel.

DVD player took a crap...tore into it and found all sorts of small motors, gears and rubber bands. The gears make an interesting car load, the rubber bands look great as tie downs, and the motors....

scraps of hemp rope or manilla rope make great weeds or dead branches under a tree

I could go on and on
Jeff


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## Texas Hi-Railer

You can't imagine the number of times I've made tunnel portals & old wooden trestles out of the long wooden matches you buy for the fireplace. I have two fireplaces so I go thru 4 or 5 boxes of the long wooden matches in the winter so I keep the match after lighting the fire & save them up until I have plenty for a project & it's fun-time!

They also make for great ties to lay along the tracks or in the train yards, etc. I simply dip them in cheap black/brown leather dye & you have instant old railroad ties or old looking wood timbers for trestles & the size is perfect for HO scale. I also use old spice shakers for rock & groundcover shakers & you would also be amazed at the realistic piping one can make using simply plastic straws & a cheap can of of silver or black spray paint. I buy the cheap stuff from Dollar General for $1.25 a can (tall can) which is about the cheapest spray paint in large cans that I've found yet!

There are so many things laying around the house one can use in this hobby if you have a great imagination & are a decent modeler from scratch. The only big money I spend where I won't be cheap is any of my airbrushing equipment. I'm real fussy about airbrushing so I buy the best I can without skimping.

I'll try to get a picture of the new portal I just built from popsicle sticks & tall wooden fireplace matches. I think it looks better than any made by WS & I've had several compliments on it with a few asking me to build them a couple. It's also a great money-maker on the side.


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## mtoney

We have to be cheap, because just buying the locomotive and control system, be it DC or DCC isnt cheap anymore. Well let me qualify that, if you want a really really nice locomotive it isnt cheap. Here is my little layouts primary power, an late 50's or early 60's era PFM/United brass 2-8-0 that was pro painted. 


Backup power was gotten on the cheap, a mint Mantua/Tyco Santa Fe GP20 with the 5 pole motor in the front truck. My freight cars are whatever I find cheap in the trays at model train shows. My passenger consist is an old set of Tenshodo C&NW cars, gotten for $15 per car at a shop that gets in estate items. I need to repaint them for Santa Fe. The track on my layout and my backstock for the future expansion is mostly all brass rail, gotten for free as it get this box out of here at a shop I was at. My throttle/power pack I have had since I was 16, still works fine. Rather than remotor my steamer, I put new rare earth magnets in the motor and restored its power and performance. A lot of my scenery, bench work ect have been hand me downs from other modelers either cleaning out under thier layouts or downsizing when they moved to a smaller home. It is possible to build on the cheap, and its something that needs to be expressed in the modeling magazines, but they are to tied to the advertisers and the new high doller items. So they have little incentive to feature articles on building small layouts using mostly all used and less expensive items. Thus the newcomer whos only exposure might be the local shop and the magazines that only have brand new product, might be put off by the perceived high cost of the hobby. When we that are involved in the hobby and know where to find this stuff, know better. Mikie


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## CrazySpence

To fill out my rolling stock a bit without breaking the bank I bought a bunch of old hornhook style cars and converted them, this nets cars at 5-$9 ( 9 is when you replace the wheels too) instead of $30+

I wrote about it here http://www.philtopia.com/?p=1996


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## sstlaure

Sawdust - can be used to make ground cover when dyed and I also plan on making some "woodchip" loads for my large pulp cars.

Just swept it up after the last project (It's really nice cedar dust - got 3 one gallon bags full of the stuff) Absolutely free.

Cardboard strips from shipping packages to use for making landforms, etc.

Flat finish Rattlecan paint from Home Depot/Lowes rather than "modeling" paint in tiny cans.

Using 1x2, 1x3, 1x4 (benchwork) and 2x2 (legs) lumber rather than 2x4 and 4x4. Layouts don't need to be built like a dumptruck. My 250lb father can sit on my layout even though it's made out of some fairly thin material - it's all about HOW you put the structure together.

Tunnel portals made from scrap pieces of foamboard rather than the store-bought pre-made plaster ones.


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## wsboyette

Common aquarium carbon from WalMart makes perfectly realistic coal loads for the larger scales, and is lightweight. And don't waste your money on that expensive plastic snow for winter scenes - Get some sheets of that white urethane type craft styrofoam at a craft store or the WalMart craft section, cut them up and pulverize them into powder in a blender. Makes perfectly realistic snow for all but the smallest scales....


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## wsboyette

When I was building my O gauge Christmas layout back in 1993, I was in a quandary for a while on what to use for an attractive skirting for the platform. Then one day, while unpacking a shipment of new patient monitors at work, I hit upon a great solution - Styrofoam packing sheets heat-scribed and painted to look like brickwork..... With inexpensive Latex paint from my local paint supply. Cost - only a few bucks for the paint !


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## wsboyette

You can scratchbuild many buildings dirt cheap from cardstock, balsa strip and basswood sheet purchased at a craft store; had these N scale tobacco barns been built from a kit they would have cost me at least $30; I only spent about $12 and there's still enough material left over for some more buildings ! I can really do some serious scratchbuilding in O scale, as it is large enough that I can scribe brick textures into my surfaces and use heavy cardstock strips for clapboard siding..... Save a ton of money with which to buy more locomotives and rolling stock !


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## tjcruiser

Wsb,

The brick base looks great! Simple, but clever!

TJ


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## Aminnich

wow, lots more ideas, thanks guys!


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## Texas Hi-Railer

sstlaure said:


> Sawdust - can be used to make ground cover when dyed and I also plan on making some "woodchip" loads for my large pulp cars.
> 
> Just swept it up after the last project (It's really nice cedar dust - got 3 one gallon bags full of the stuff) Absolutely free.
> 
> Cardboard strips from shipping packages to use for making landforms, etc.
> 
> Flat finish Rattlecan paint from Home Depot/Lowes rather than "modeling" paint in tiny cans.
> 
> Using 1x2, 1x3, 1x4 (benchwork) and 2x2 (legs) lumber rather than 2x4 and 4x4. Layouts don't need to be built like a dumptruck. My 250lb father can sit on my layout even though it's made out of some fairly thin material - it's all about HOW you put the structure together.
> 
> Tunnel portals made from scrap pieces of foamboard rather than the store-bought pre-made plaster ones.


Absolutely right on those cheap cans of paint! What one pays for one (small) can of Testors or other brand model paints in those tiny little cans, I can buy three large cans of spray paint that works just as well, if not better in many cases. I'm looking on my paint shelf now as y'all read this & the Testors brand 3oz. can is $4.99 ($5) while the Miracal brand 12oz. can is only $1.25 so, for one 3oz. can of Testors spray paint at $5... I can buy 48oz. (4 cans) of Miracal spray paint. Now that's a serious deal & I see very little difference in the quality of the two paints???

Now, here's a great example of the price increases a few of us were talking about earlier? While cleaning off my roll-top desk (which is my train room workbench) so I could work on a locomotive project, I gathered up about two dozen receipts from the local train shop I visit now & then. Just gazing at a few of them I noticed one receipt where I purchased Walthers Al's Victory Service (HO scale) gas station kit which I paid $18.95 in November 2010. Now keep in mind that hobby shop charges roughly 20% over what the internet train shops charge simply because he is the only game in town so, if you deduct about $3 (which is actually less than 20%) from that price, I would have paid about $15.95 for the kit elsewhere.

That same kit today on Walthers website is listed at $31.98 and we are talking less than 5 years later? That's insane if you ask me! A 2nd example on that same receipt is, it looks like I bought the Walthers Glacier Gravel Co. kit which is $27.95 on my receipt & that same kit is on Walthers website right now for $49.98 which is a $22 increase in less than five years? How can it be that plastic has gone up that much in such a short period of time??? WOW!


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## Fire21

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> How can it be that plastic has gone up that much in such a short period of time??? WOW!


I don't think plastic has gone up the much. I think greed has.


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## Texas Hi-Railer

Fire21 said:


> I don't think plastic has gone up the much. I think greed has.


Greed is the word indeed my friend. These companies are losing old & new customers all the time with these outrageous prices & I personally don't see how they stay in business? I think eventually they will price themselves right out of the market but that's my own opinion.


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## Old_Hobo

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> These companies are losing old & new customers all the time with these outrageous prices


But are they? 

New model railroaders that were not around to enjoy the cheap prices may very well think that the prices are what they are, and are comfortable with that....or old guys like me that want the detail and the accuracy, and are willing to pay for it.....?


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## Texas Hi-Railer

Old_Hobo said:


> But are they?
> 
> New model railroaders that were not around to enjoy the cheap prices may very well think that the prices are what they are, and are comfortable with that....or old guys like me that want the detail and the accuracy, and are willing to pay for it.....?


Oh yes, there are those who love the hobby so much & have the funds to pay these outrageous prices & the companies know this so that's why the prices are what they are today. I myself have done away with plenty of products I'd like to have on my layout simply because I refuse to pay those prices. I have three other buddies in the hobby who feel the same way & they no longer pay those prices anymore as well. We take our time & shop around for what is doable & we live with it because we refuse to give in to this insanity. We buy used, cheap or we do without.

Are there new folks who like the hobby but don't get into because of these high prices? Sure there are because I have met several of them myself. As a matter of fact I have two friends here locally who would absolutely love to have a garden railroad with the G scale stuff but they refuse to pay those prices. One guy I know in town who has been into the G scale stuff & who has a nice outdoor layout in his back yard, he has stopped buying anything new & he seldom runs his trains anymore because, some of his locomotives are not working anymore & he refuses to pay the prices to replace them. In the old days when prices were realistic, we wouldn't think twice about buying another locomotive because we love the hobby but, when it begins to put a huge dent in the wallet people start to think twice about it & that is what has been happening thru my experiences.

Now sure, it's not enough to cause these huge companies any stress & therefore they continue with the outrageous pricing & they know the average hobbyist will pay it. That is more of the problem in my opinion rather than the greedy manufacturers. As long as the general public pays the high prices without taking action against these greedy companies, nothing will ever change however, if a large enough percentage stopped buying these over-priced products where it causes a loss to these companies... you would see the prices come back to reality real quick! 

If you think not, what happened to the gas prices? People stopped doing so much traveling & buying all the gasoline & the oil producers opened their eyes & prices came way down again. I just filled up my car over the weekend at $1.99 per gallon that just 2 or 3 years ago that same gallon of gasoline was almost $4 per gallon! It works the same way with everything on the open markets. If enough people back off or completely stop buying these over-priced products, watch how quickly prices come down!


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## Texas Hi-Railer

I'll give one example of what I mean by my previous comment. I really wanted the Walthers Cornerstone kit "New River Mining Company" simply because I have a couple dozen coal hoppers that I picked up for a song at an estate sale but I simply refused to pay $60 for the kit plus another $15 shipping because the kit just wasn't worth $75 to me so, I put the coal hoppers in storage until I came across the kit brand new with shipping for only $25 from a gal on evil-bay last year & I grabbed it quick! So, now I have my coal mine I've been wanting & I had another $50 left over to buy something else. This is how I shop when it comes to this hobby & there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I'm very rarely in need or in a hurry to pay those prices but that's just me.


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## Old_Hobo

You are right...the only way to force them is to vote with your wallet.....but it's gotta be almost all the people, or it won't have an affect......and that's where it falls down.....


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## Fire21

I understand that nowadays people in our hobby are wanting more and more detail in their models. Every time a company comes out with a new loco or building, it has more cast-in detail and more add-on parts than previous models. It does cost time and therefore money for companies to produce the molds to make those models. That's where part of the cost comes from.

Another part comes from wages for the die makers, the floor workers, the stockroom people, the shippers, the handlers. I really doubt that those people are making the same wage they were 5 or 10 years ago. That's more cost.

There are costs for materials...plastic, various metals, wire, lubricants...more cost.

All that being said, prices doubling, or nearly so, in a few years' span is ridiculous!

*MOST* Americans (Canadians too) aren't stuck at the income we were 5 or 10 years ago. 

Personally, I am. I am retired on fixed income. I spend my money on necessities, and very little on niceties. After much budget searching, I decided to build an N-scale DCC layout, and I bought two new locos, two decoders and a Digitrax Zephyr power supply. I'm using track and buildings I had from back in the 70s. I'm using tools I have on hand, and lots of scrap wood for projects. Luckily I'm not insistent on super-detail. I'll make do with what I have.


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## Buffalojoe

Yes you guys are right. I'm in construction and I always have my eye out for scrap that can be used on the layout. Lumber, sawdust, wire and connectiors, Screws ,boxes for storage ,ceiling tile, and more than I know I have. You're right that MR has to promote the products of their advertisers, it's their meal ticket. When was the last time you saw an article on dying sawdust? The 70's? I only buy used freight cars and limit to $ 10 max. That is why I' m glad I found this site, modelers who know how and want to do it them selves. Cripe, anyone can buy it, it only takes money, and no skill required.


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## Texas Hi-Railer

I'm the same way myself, I like the older kits & I also keep my budget at $10 for rolling stock & roughly $150-$175 for HO scale DCC locomotives and that's with sound! If you shop around & take your time, you can get good deals on DCC power units. I just picked up a sweet DCC w/sound, Athearn GP40-2W "GO" Transit locomotive for $149 which I thought was a great deal for DCC w/sound. My most expensive DCC locomotive is a real nice BLI C430 NS w/Paragon2 sound I picked up for $229 at Al's shop here locally last December. It was a Christmas gift from Santa for myself, lol. Hey, you gotta splurge once in a while!


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## Aminnich

I found this, definitely going to try it!!


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## traction fan

*Special, but cheap shingles*

When I scratchbuilt this building, I needed odd, diamond shaped, shingles to match those in a photo of the real structure. It puzzled me for quite a while. Nothing seemed the right shape. I ended up cutting the saw tooth edges from the open end of brown paper sandwich bags. Worked perfectly! The lesson here is that the oddest things can be used on a layout. So keep your eyes, and mind, open to new possibilities. You'll soon develop a, "model railroader's eye" for things you can use.

Regards;

Traction Fan


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## Fire21

Excellent idea, traction fan. I told my wife about what you used, and she, being a sewing artist, immediately said the shingles could be made using pinking shears...they cut the same sawtooth shape as what the bags had.


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## NWHOOSIER

My locos are 90% old blue box Athearns. Thats cheap compared to whats out there and brand new. My most expensive is N&W 2-8-8-2 Rivarossi. 75.00 bucks and free shpping from ebay. Back in December i added new old stock Athearn blue box SD40-2 Santa Fe for 22.50 shipped from ebay. 
For rolling stock i go to shows and get Athearn,Roundhouse or Accurail cars for 5-10 bucks each. Some with original boxes and kadees already on them. Ebay cannot compete with those show prices because of shipping charges but also everyone bidding against you.


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## Don F

I make custom loads for O and S gauge gondolas and hoppers, including scrap loads. I use all kinds of materials that I find at work, at home and on walks in the woods and other places where unusual items that can be used as scrap can be found. 
I cut thin strips from old used band saw blades, and curve them into an oval to represent an industrial sized used band saw blade. I use a dremel to cut teeth into fender washers to use as commercial saw blades. I've made mufflers from scraps of thin metal, and guide rail from aluminum foil iced tea covers. 
I save ball point pen springs and cut short sections to use as coil springs, and cut thin strips of pliable metal in graduated lengths and band them to use as leaf springs. 
Old drive gears from lawn mowers cut in half make great drive gears for lift bridges. Fan blades from small motors can be used as giant exhaust fans blades for mining industries or other large fans.
Window screen cut on a diagonal, and rolled up look like chain link fence. Screw studs from assemble at home shelving and entertainment units make great industrial drill bits for mining or construction equipment. Larger screen can represent older metal divided light window frames.
Silver wire from light fixtures and other electronic equipment can be twisted and coiled as old cable. Just leave the ends frayed a little. 
I have a container of crushed glass from a local scrap yard, and I sifted it through a window screen, and save the material the passed through; this make a nice glass load. Wood chip loads are made from yellow pine I get from a wood reel maker, again, I sift it through a window screen. 
Plastic straws for stirring coffee make great pipes, and they're light weight too. Scrap metal sheet that is all rusted can be cut up to replicate metal siding or roofing. I save the metal cuttings from the band saw I use at work, and the shavings make a great shredded metal load. I've used old chain link fence post caps as containers for shredded metal. I just cut the top off and file flat, turn upside down in a gondola, choke it up with a piece of foam or cotton balls, and top off with metal cuttings. The possibilities are endless. I've included some photos, and more can be viewed on my website listed with my signature.
Don 


.


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## Gramps

Great idea, it looks real.


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## Tucgary

Being almost 5 years retired now,I am proud of how many items I have fixed around the house just by digging in my own drawers.
I have had these drawers for over 25 years and oh the treasures they hold. I have saved myself many trips and lots of $ just by taking the time to dig a little bit.
I fixed 2 items on the layout this last week by finding items that would do the job nicely. Tucgary


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## mopac

Don F is right about ink pens. They do have some usable
items. Here is a load of black pipe I made from ink pen
bodies. The wood is from match sticks. Once you get in the habit you will find all kinds of stuff to use.


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## DonR

If you build any styrene kits, save the sprues the maker
used to cast the parts. They come in various diameters and
make ideal pipes for plumbing or fuel services. 

Kadee coupler draft boxes also have sprues that
can becomes parts of your models.

I used the plastic cap from a paint spray can to make
the water tank for my water dept. It's support was
originally an 027 Marx airport beacon tower.









Don


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## Aminnich

Since my layout has a lumber yard/building supplies industry, I also have pipe loads im mind for my layout. I bought everything, I just need to make them, here is the video I got the idea from....


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## gregc

i have some magazines going back to 1939. Those modelers had to build just about everything from scratch.

Another thing to consider is when to be cheap and when not to be.


I've learned to hand lay turnouts to save money and for a custom fit. I'll also not feel so bad if I need to discard one.

I also use manual turnout controls.

I've used gravel from the road for some scenery projects. It can be screened for different sizes and is more realistic because it's no so uniform.

If screened with a magnet, it should also be good for ballast, or at least for scenery rocks.

Another thing I've started to do is build structures from blocks of foam and cardboard. Yes, they are white and cardboard color. But I've gone from flatland to foamland. I've learned from several mistakes and plan to scratch build with wood.

And being an electrical engineer, I try to build my own electronics.

I'm always surprised by suggestions to address some problem by "simply" buying some commercial product for $30-40. I thought building things is part of the enjoyment of modeling.

I'm especially impressed by those who build steam locomotive shells from scratch.


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## Texas Hi-Railer

Now that is a cool idea Don. I was wanting some little water towers for my HO structures and I just couldn't figure out what to use and then it hit me on day... why not an N scale water tower? That should look realistic and about the right size for on top of a building and sure enough it works out perfectly so, if you guys want to add water towers to your HO structures, simply add a couple of N scale water towers and you're good to go!


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## Texas Hi-Railer

Aminnich said:


> Since my layout has a lumber yard/building supplies industry, I also have pipe loads im mind for my layout. I bought everything, I just need to make them, here is the video I got the idea from....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5JI116Rkck


Well I'll be, it's none other than "Monster Railroad" and I see you're wearing a fireman T-shirt so I assume you graduated the academy? Boy it's a small world, as I've been following you for a few years now on YouTube and I had no idea you were on here? Are you still doing the weathering for the folks? It's great to see you on here Big Al, Bo.


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## CTValleyRR

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> Well I'll be, it's none other than "Monster Railroad" and I see you're wearing a fireman T-shirt so I assume you graduated the academy? Boy it's a small world, as I've been following you for a few years now on YouTube and I had no idea you were on here? Are you still doing the weathering for the folks? It's great to see you on here Big Al, Bo.


That's not Aminich in the video. He lives is SE PA and is in college.


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## Texas Hi-Railer

CTValleyRR said:


> That's not Aminich in the video. He lives is SE PA and is in college.


Oh, my bad. I thought Aminich and Big Al were one in the same, lol. Sorry about that, guess I didn't pay attention to the post.


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## Fire21

OK, in the video...what the heck is it that he bought to get the black tubes? I can't understand what he says they are.


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## Texas Hi-Railer

Fire21 said:


> OK, in the video...what the heck is it that he bought to get the black tubes? I can't understand what he says they are.


Al's talking about those glow sticks kids are buying like mad today. It's hard to hear Al a lot of time because he always has that loud music playing in the background and I use to miss half of what he use to say. It looks like he has gotten back into turning the tunes up again!

All the dollar stores carry those and so does some of the Walmarts. They are "Glow Sticks" that the kids use to necklaces and all kinds of weird things. The glow sticks are junk but the tubes that protect them are what he is talking about in the video.


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## Aminnich

:laugh: thanks for clearing that up CTV

In the video he is using the packaging from glow sticks. I bought I bunch of them, gave the glow sticks to my party-going friends and kept the packaging. 

The black plastic is there to prevent the glow stick from being "cracked" inside the bag they come in. It is kinda hard to explain. 

I went out and bought 6 of the glow stick at the dollar store, they look like they are gonna look really neat on the layout.


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## Luke 221

I never buy anything from Walthers

Walthers is a joke.. Case in point

Bachmann "Empire Builder" train set

Northern 4-8-4 - Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe
Walthers Part # 160-24009, p. 31 Walthers 2016 N&Z Scale Reference
N scale, $329.00, currently in stock at Walthers

June 2016 sale price is $221.98 (price as of 6/5/16 a $42.00 increase from 2012)

December 2014 sale price was $209.98

March 2014 sale price was $194.98

November 2013 sale price was $189.98

November 2012 sale price was $179.98

The current inflation rate dictates that this set should cost approximately $ 187.98 (an increase of $ 8.00 in 4 years) Basically Walther's inflation rate is roughly 6 times higher than the Consumer price index for durable goods.


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## tr1

*Saving a little money now and then.*

There are multitude of ways to save money in model railroading,one of these ways is
making your own trees,pine or deciduous is a good example,I know the Michael's craft stores offers a bunch of
items in this regard.Saw dust and card board are used frequently in this regard.That's part of the fun in using your creativity to help save yourself a little cash,here and there.
Regards,tr1


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## RonthePirate

Saw the header, "I'm cheap", thought my ex had joined..........


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## CTValleyRR

Luke 221 said:


> I never buy anything from Walthers
> 
> Walthers is a joke..


Perhaps a little more information would clarify the picture for you. 

Many people know about Walthers Terminal Hobby Shop in Milwaukee, WI. Many would go there expecting some huge retail establishment. You'd be wrong. It's a couple of shelves of product and a couple of computer terminals -- basically, a tiny retail storefront on their enormous warehouse.

Walthers isn't really a retailer at all. They are a manfucturer (more properly a supplier, because they contract it out) of Walthers and LifeLike branded products, and a wholesale distributor for the model railroad retail business. If every hobbyist in the world quit purchasing directly from Walthers, it wouldn't affect their business much, because by far the majority of their business is done with retailers, not end-users. They're a business, though. They're not going to turn away sales to end-users.

More importantly, Walthers pricing is ALWAYS MSRP, or some slight discount from it in the case of sale items. This is a deliberate policy on their part, so as not to undercut their dealers. Except in the case of their own merchandise, they don't determine the MSRP, the just post what the manufacturer tells them too, so crazy pricing on Bachmann products has nothing to do with them. Their sale price reflects Bachmann's retail price changes. Bachmann, like other manufacturers, prices their items at cost plus some profit mark-up; price changes on an individual product will seldom follow the CPI or PPI exactly, and I would be very wary of claiming that they or any other company is just profit gouging until I clearly understood the underlying cost model. In this day of information availability, no company that routinely engages in this will survive. Hobby products are a specialty item, though, and there has to be a fairly high mark up to compensate for low volume.

All that said, I don't generally order from Walthers either, especially not locomotives and rolling stock. Too many people out there selling at a discount to MSRP (even though they may have bought the stock from Walthers). Sometimes, though, they are the only place I can find something I want, and it pays to order everything from one place and pay shipping once rather than pay it several times to several e-tailers. Walthers value to me, though, lies more in the information they provide in their catalog and web site.


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## Luke 221

Very informative regarding Walthers. So basically if you are in the market for Walthers product or Life-Like then you shop with them. Anything else, try the LHS first and then maybe other online retailers.


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## CTValleyRR

Luke 221 said:


> Very informative regarding Walthers. So basically if you are in the market for Walthers product or Life-Like then you shop with them. Anything else, try the LHS first and then maybe other online retailers.


I'd still look for Walthers / Life-Like from another source first. Lots of places sell it at a discount (in theory, Walthers could offer more of a discount on their own branded stuff, because they're the supplier, not just the middle man). Plus supply of their stuff is pretty good.

Sometimes, though, Walthers is the only place I can find everything I want in stock at the same time, or they have a hard-to-find item that no one else does, then it makes sense to buy from them.


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## VegasN

I have a bit of an advantage. I am a woodworker so my benchwork cost me next to nothing. All reclaimed lumber using already have on hand supplies. I told Ron that I have $10 in my bedroom size layout benchwork, but that is not the exact truth.....I did have to Buy 8 2x4s at $2.58 a piece. So I actually have $20 and some change in all my benchwork.

All the foam is packaging foam that came in things my family has bought, dumpsters, offices.....wherever I find foam laying around. All my paint is Home Depot oops paint. Never pay more than $5.00 for paint.

Landscaping is sifted potting soil (.99 a bag), dirt from my backyard, rocks from my front yard, I even have some dirt and rocks from Mt. Charleston. Twigs for deadfall, etc.

I paid retail prices for 3 of my 40+ buildings. 3 of them (so far) are scratch built from $4.00 worth of foam board.

My biggest expenses, obviously, has been track, locomotives, people, and vehicles. Everything else has either been incredible deals, or free from nature.....what's more natural looking than nature?


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