# Dumb question about horn hook couplers



## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

So I got a mix of freight cars with horn hooks and a mix with knuckle couplers that I lashup with a transition car for the time being. My question is, how the heck do you uncouple the horn hook couplers? So far the only way I have found to get them little buggers apart is to pick both cars completely up off the track and wiggle them till they unhook. I know their is a better way.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I uncouple them with a tool that takes them off the rolling stock. Then I pick them up, one at a time between my fore finger and thumb and hold them directly out in front of me at arms length and position myself about 2 feet from the nearest trash can. Upon arriving at this position, I spread my fore finger away from my thumb and thern look down to be sure the hook horn is in the trash can. I repeat as often as needed until all hook horn couplers are in the trash can. Eventually I can do two or three at a time.


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## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> I uncouple them with a tool that takes them off the rolling stock. Then I pick them up, one at a time between my fore finger and thumb and hold them directly out in front of me at arms length and position myself about 2 feet from the nearest trash can. Upon arriving at this position, I spread my fore finger away from my thumb and thern look down to be sure the hook horn is in the trash can. I repeat as often as needed until all hook horn couplers are in the trash can. Eventually I can do two or three at a time.


Wow that's almost exactly what I plan to do after I invest in a big old pack of kadee #5's! Great minds must think alike.

But really all fun aside, in the meantime while I still deal with these things what is the proper method for uncoupling?


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

That's the annoying thing about hook and horn couplers. Sometimes you get lucky and it comes right off, but sometimes it sticks and you have to twist it around so you can finally change the car or put something else there.


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## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

400E Blue Comet said:


> That's the annoying thing about hook and horn couplers. Sometimes you get lucky and it comes right off, but sometimes it sticks and you have to twist it around so you can finally change the car or put something else there.


is there some sort of tool or wand or something?


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

/6 matt said:


> is there some sort of tool or wand or something?


Bolt cutters might work........


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

I just put the Hand of God on one car, move sideways and they uncouple. Not as elegant(?) as the previous suggestions but works for me.

I have probably 99% or so of my rolling stock converted to knuckle style - but I have to say I think the poor old horn-hoooks have an undeserved reputation. About the only bad thing I can say about them is that they don't look much like a real coupler. Other than that, they are reliable, very forgiving of less than perfect trackwork, don't require the endless fussing over proper coupler height like knuckle couplers... and just work. 

But yes, I know that train has already left the station...


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## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

JNXT 7707 said:


> I just put the Hand of God on one car, move sideways and they uncouple. Not as elegant(?) as the previous suggestions but works for me.
> 
> I have probably 99% or so of my rolling stock converted to knuckle style - but I have to say I think the poor old horn-hoooks have an undeserved reputation. About the only bad thing I can say about them is that they don't look much like a real coupler. Other than that, they are reliable, very forgiving of less than perfect trackwork, don't require the endless fussing over proper coupler height like knuckle couplers... and just work.
> 
> But yes, I know that train has already left the station...


Yeah in all honesty if not for the fact that they are a PITA to uncouple I would actually probably get rid of all my knuckles and go straight horn hook cause they are the only ones that work reliably for me.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The worse thing about horn hook couplers is that they are (mostly) truck mounted.....that's where all the trouble with them comes from, especially when backing a string of cars into a siding.....too much pressue on the trucks and they invariably uncouple, or the wheels pop off the track.....


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

/6 matt said:


> is there some sort of tool or wand or something?


I know there are some decoupler tracks for hook and horn couplers. You might be able to find an old Tyco one. I'm not sure about wands though.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> The worse thing about horn hook couplers is that they are (mostly) truck mounted.....that's where all the trouble with them comes from, especially when backing a string of cars into a siding.....too much pressue on the trucks and they invariably uncouple, or the wheels pop off the track.....


but the hook horn wasn't made for long trains. Just small displays or Christmas tree settings. That's kinda obvious by their design.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yet another reason they should be abandoned and replaced with Kadee....thank you.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

400E Blue Comet said:


> I'm not sure about wands though.


Maybe a magic one might work.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

JNXT 7707 said:


> I just put the Hand of God on one car, move sideways and they uncouple. Not as elegant(?) as the previous suggestions but works for me.
> 
> I have probably 99% or so of my rolling stock converted to knuckle style - but I have to say I think the poor old horn-hoooks have an undeserved reputation. About the only bad thing I can say about them is that they don't look much like a real coupler. Other than that, they are reliable, very forgiving of less than perfect trackwork, don't require the endless fussing over proper coupler height like knuckle couplers... and just work.
> 
> But yes, I know that train has already left the station...


I have a slightly different spin on that issue. BECAUSE hook and horn couplers stay together much better than knuckle ones, they're great for (and designed for) layouts where all you want to do is watch trains go around, with the same consist time after time. AS you point out, they can be a blessing if your trackwork is less than perfect; especially when the layout is being taken up and put back down.

For those of us who have permanent trackage, where we can make sure our trackwork is high quality, and who like to perform more or less realistic operations, involving repeated coupling and uncoupling, these features become a distinct drawback. We usually can't replace them fast enough.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> I have a slightly different spin on that issue. BECAUSE hook and horn couplers stay together much better than knuckle ones, they're great for (and designed for) layouts where all you want to do is watch trains go around, with the same consist time after time. AS you point out, they can be a blessing if your trackwork is less than perfect; especially when the layout is being taken up and put back down.
> 
> For those of us who have permanent trackage, where we can make sure our trackwork is high quality, and who like to perform more or less realistic operations, involving repeated coupling and uncoupling, these features become a distinct drawback. We usually can't replace them fast enough.


Kinda describes the difference between modelers and toys.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

D&J Railroad said:


> Kinda describes the difference between modelers and toys.


I used to be a member of another forum (I guess I still am, but I haven't been back in a while). One of the reasons I left was because of a prevailing attitude, which we called, "You're not a REAL model railroader if (or unless)..." Mostly, minimum requirements were realistic operations, detailed scenery, no stock kits, and similar ideas, some even extending it to no protolanced railroads (either faithful recreation of a prototype or totally freelanced were "allowed"), no Ready-to-Run equipment, no "close enough" details on locomotives, and so on.

Personally, I find these "judgers" rather tiresome, and would rather welcome people with an interest in the hobby, no matter what they like doing, or how deeply into it they wish to dive. I think this forum does that now, and I, for one, would like to keep it that way.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> I used to be a member of another forum (I guess I still am, but I haven't been back in a while). One of the reasons I left was because of a prevailing attitude, which we called, "You're not a REAL model railroader if (or unless)..." Mostly, minimum requirements were realistic operations, detailed scenery, no stock kits, and similar ideas, some even extending it to no protolanced railroads (either faithful recreation of a prototype or totally freelanced were "allowed"), no Ready-to-Run equipment, no "close enough" details on locomotives, and so on.
> 
> Personally, I find these "judgers" rather tiresome, and would rather welcome people with an interest in the hobby, no matter what they like doing, or how deeply into it they wish to dive. I think this forum does that now, and I, for one, would like to keep it that way.


Wow, that's quite a leap from describing the difference between hook horn and knuckle couplers. I guess I should look closer at the Pasadena club, or the Sierra Vista club and I will probably see hook horns galore, right?
There are quite a few posts on this forum about problems with running longer trains with hook horns and the owners come to realize they are ready to take that step into a better way of linking their train stuff. Are you saying these people are finally becoming "Real railroaders".
Ya see CT, most of us wander into the model railroader world from the toy train environment. Some make the transition in major steps, while others are constrained by a budget or a room to work with and have to wait decades before getting into the hobby at the pace they really desire. On the other hand, there are folks who setup their trains shortly after Thanksgiving, run them for a while and turn it over to the kiddies to crash, smash and abuse then put it all away until next year. They come on here to ask how to put a truck back onto the body of their train or why the locomotive doesn't run when there is a flashing light on their power pack., but yeah, they would certainly be offended if ya said they only viewed their stuff as toys, right?
There are posts of comparisons in all kinds of topics here CT. From couplers, to turnouts, rolling stock and operating systems. If someone says something about another item other than what the original poster is talking about, I guess in your eyes, that's judging, or putting the OP down, right?
Then there are folks like you who come along and warn everybody about those who "judge" other modelers and then move along to your Utopia of forums because you are so much above the rest of us. Just what we need here.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

D&J.

Read my fist comment. Read your comment that I quoted. Then take a deep breath and read mine again, carefully. 

I did not judge, I did not demean anyone for what they chose to model or how. I expressed my honest hope that no one here was drawing a distinction between modelers and people who play with toys, which rather poisoned the air on that other forum. My second comment was a reaction to yours, which sounded to me like YOU were making such a distintion.

If you think I was demeaning anyone for using hook-horn couplers, you totally misinterpreted my comment, probably because you reacted to what I wrote last and didn't follow the train of posts the whole way through. There is a place for all tastes and styles in this hobby, and I think you'll find me a strong advocate of that,


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I never knew such a seemingly innocuous subject as horn hook couplers could engender such high emotions!


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Cycleops said:


> I never knew such a seemingly innocuous subject as horn hook couplers could engender such high emotions!


Yeah, I usually have trouble sleeping at night when I think about it.


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## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> Yeah, I usually have trouble sleeping at night when I think about it.


Sorry I brought it up then lol!


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Cycleops said:


> I never knew such a seemingly innocuous subject as horn hook couplers could engender such high emotions!


One thing guaranteed to illicit high emotions is whenever one's choices in this hobby are categorized - or even vaguely implied as by another - as "toy-like" or "train set" in nature. 

And ironically horn-hooks are also known as NMRA couplers.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

My experience with horn hook (or is it hook horn) couplers and why I changed to knuckle couplers.

I'm a 4 x 8er using sectional track.

Had a bunch of trains from when I was a kid (late 60s, early 70s) - mostly Tyco because that was the best there was at that time in our price range. Fast forward 25 years and now I'm building a layout for my kids each Christmas. As they got older it got more sophisticated. Horn hooks had a habit of uncoupling in corners especially after the pronged spring on the coupler weakened or broke so that the coupler would not automatically spring back into position. Backing up we could always count on something uncoupling somewhere.

So got some new cars with knuckle couplers, converted those with body mounted couplers like Athearn and Mantua, to knuckle couplers. Had to make some height adjustments on some of the converted cars. Walla! No more uncoupling in corners or during backing up.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

It's been a fair while since I ran my Tyco trains, but I recall having a one-handed technique for decoupling the horn-hooks... When you pick up the car you want to remove, use a finger to turn the truck slightly clockwise while moving the car in towards the other car. This worked about 9 times out of 10 (there was always that stubborn one that wouldn't release), without needing any special tool or even much agility.

And for all those throwing away your horn hooks, keep in mind that some of us do collect certain old cars and would love a bag full of the couplers or the older metal trucks with the peened coupler pin. I have a few cars which would be pristine if I could find some matched pairs of trucks.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Uncoupling horn hooks*

/6 Mat;

First, your question is not "dumb." The forum exists to answer whatever train related questions anyone posts.
Second, After reading through three pages of answers, I'm not sure you got one. The horn hook couplers did have an uncoupling "ramp". It was a plastic, narrowing, V-shaped trough that snapped on the ties between the rails. It may also have been available as an uncoupling section of track, I don't remember. The uncoupler worked by pushing the pins hanging down from the bottom of two mated horn hooks together. This forced both couplers to move to the outside, and released the hooks. The big disadvantage was that the uncoupling could only be done at one of these ramps. Therefore you had to have a lot of ramps; or manually move a ramp to the desired spot, and then back the cars into it. 
At the same time, Kadee was making knuckle couplers that looked more like the real thing; and allowed an uncoupled car to be pushed off their magnetic ramp, and then on to it's destination. Kadee called this feature "delayed uncoupling", and it was a great advantage. One strategically placed ramp could serve several sidings. Modelers soon found other ways to uncouple knuckle couplers, using picks or hand held, magnetic "wands". This seems to be the most popular method now.

Traction Fan


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Shdwdrgn said:


> And for all those throwing away your horn hooks, keep in mind that some of us do collect certain old cars and would love a bag full of the couplers or the older metal trucks with the peened coupler pin. I have a few cars which would be pristine if I could find some matched pairs of trucks.


Was thinking about this today and you beat me to it! 

So I'll second it and add this - starting out, I tossed horn-hooks into the trash as a matter of course, didn't think twice. After all, they're trash, right?
Then after seeing what all is sold on ebay, I waited until I had a good pile of em and then offered them up on ebay for 99 cents. Wow...talk about a windfall. I forget what I got but let's just say I was cursing myself for ever tossing them in the trash. So whatevr you may think of them, they do have value. I learned there is truth to the model railroader's saying "never throw anything away"


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

Wow, this post got me thinking of all the fun things of model railroading in the 50s and 60s like brass rail, flex track with fiber ties, steam engines that ran only if you pushed them with a diesel and sounded like a coffee grinder and my all time favorite, Hi-Fi drive!-
(a rubber band from the motor shaft to the drive axle-honest!) Any Athearn Hustler fans still out there??

Peter


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Peter Herron said:


> and my all time favorite, Hi-Fi drive!-
> (a rubber band from the motor shaft to the drive axle-honest!)


There's a "Hi F" (not Hi-Fi) fan right here on this forum:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=40777


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

JNXT 7707 said:


> Was thinking about this today and you beat me to it!
> 
> So I'll second it and add this - starting out, I tossed horn-hooks into the trash as a matter of course, didn't think twice. After all, they're trash, right?
> Then after seeing what all is sold on ebay, I waited until I had a good pile of em and then offered them up on ebay for 99 cents. Wow...talk about a windfall. I forget what I got but let's just say I was cursing myself for ever tossing them in the trash. So whatevr you may think of them, they do have value. I learned there is truth to the model railroader's saying "never throw anything away"


Geeez, I'm going to start saving all my plastic clippings.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

Here is an old horn hook uncoupler they will only uncouple in only one direction.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

I had hook horn uncouplers. It was a plastic piece that was set down on the ties of a piece of straight track. It had small knobs on the bottom of the ends to hold it in place. It had 2 thin wires running end to end - wider at the ends, narrow in the middle, attached at the ends and rising to about 1/4 above the base in the middle. The way it worked was to back up over the uncoupler. The horns would be inside the wires and at the narrow part it would separate the hooks. You stopped the train and the cars would be uncoupled. You could leave it on the track because moving forward over it did not cause the cars to uncouple.


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*Revel??*

I had some that had a thin wire and would work (sort of) in both directions. IIRC they were made by Revel. Here is a listing of all their great products. 

http://ho-scaletrains.net/revellhoscaletrainsresource/index.html

Boy do they bring me back to 1958 and my first HO layout! I believe I had one of everything they made at one time.

Peter


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I think he meant you could go through the uncoupler either way, but to unhook you had to have the train go backwards for a short distance between the wires.

I think I had one of these too. If I remember right, when you pull on the train, the horn hooks latch into each other, however when you push two cars together the horns are angled so they try to slip past each other, and the wires of the uncoupler hold them apart to that when the train moves forward again they are detached.


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*Too much time...........*

Honestly, it's been about 60 years for me so I can't remember. I do remember they were nearly impossible to uncouple without picking them up off the track.

Peter


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Here's what the Revell uncoupling track section looked like:

Dual-Action Uncoupler 

(No.T6001)

Revell's 1957-58 catalog states this item is the, "only uncoupler with vertical springs to adjust to height of cars-lets you separate cars without effort whenever you want! Just back cars to a stop opposite the switchman on the uncoupling ramp and side springs flip couplers apart." This track section was included in many Revell train sets and sold separately for seventy-five cents in 1957.


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## mrjohn (Feb 15, 2016)

I am somewhat of a cheapskate which is not all bad. I have quite a few Life Like cars. I have been buying the packs of knuckle couplers that mount in the truck. They seem to work pretty well and they certainly improve the looks of the cars. I am putting the horn hooks in a bag. The ones that don't break. I have quite a bit of Athearn and other brands of better rolling stock. I am fitting them with Kadees.
John


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## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

Goodness mrjohn you pulled this one out the grave lol!

Just an update, my trackwork isn't the best and I've been having a lot of uncoupling issues so I ditched all my EZ mates for hornhooks and haven't looked back.

I also took a coffee stir and melted one end flat, then cut that end to a V shape. Insert it between couplers and give a little twist, they come right apart.

For future reference, what brand coupler are you using for your life like cars? Do they require modifications?


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## mrjohn (Feb 15, 2016)

They are actually Lifelike. They are called Scenemaster. The newer cars no modifications are needed at all. The older cars require the little whiskers on the coupler to be trimed a bit so the coupler can pivot. They are made just for this purpose.
John


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