# Suggestions for a 1950s layout (which trains?)



## johnnystarr (12 mo ago)

Hello all. I am very new to this whole world. I have been on the fence awhile but I want to take the first steps. My challenge is I do not know much about trains themselves. I LOVE the 1950s style scenery though, and think it would be really fun.

I am not 100% but I think I'm going to go with HO because I have the space and it seems to have a lot more resources. I really just need some help figuring out where to begin looking when it comes to 1950s locomotives. I have done searches on modeltrainstuff.com but I can't figure out how to search by year so I'm sorta stuck figuring things out.

I am wanting everything to be period accurate if that isn't obvious.

Thanks!


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Welcome to the insanity! I'd stay with defining what you want. Is this more if a diorama with a train running through it, or do you want to have something with the focus more on the train and railroad operations? Are you going for a specific area are just a general representation of the time. 

You say you have the space, how much do you have? Diesel or steam? Passenger or freight? 



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## johnnystarr (12 mo ago)

vette-kid said:


> Welcome to the insanity! I'd stay with defining what you want. Is this more if a diorama with a train running through it, or do you want to have something with the focus more on the train and railroad operations? Are you going for a specific area are just a general representation of the time.
> 
> You say you have the space, how much do you have? Diesel or steam? Passenger or freight?


Those are probably really good questions vette-kid...
I have a dedicated room that just needs to fit my computer desk, so I probably could fit a 4x8' layout or more.
I want it to be 1950s USA. I am from Texas so perhaps something reminiscent of that era?

I think Steam would be awesome, but I know so little about trains I don't know if that is accurate. It's not that I want a diorama, but I have to admit that the details draw me in. Perhaps there is a book on trains I should read to get a better idea of what I'm getting into? This has sorta been a bucket-list thing and now that I'm middle-aged it seems more appropriate than ever. Thanks for the feedback.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Is there a particular railroad or location/area you're interested in?
Between "Class 1s", regionals, shortlines, and terminal railroads there's probably about a hundred to pick from.

Some general points on railroading:


Generally speaking, railroads will use their own locomotives and cabooses. (There are exceptions, and engines can be leased, and there's all sorts of things with "run-throughs" and payback, but most of this did not happen in the steam era.)
Generally speaking, the same goes for passenger equipment. There were examples of "pool" trains operated across multiple railroads, using a mix of equipment provided from each railroad, but these were specific situations and agreements
Freight cars are "interchanged" between railroads in order to move cargo across the country from one railroad to another without re-loading it between cars each time the shipment changes railroads. So it is "possible" to see just about any railroad's freight car on any other railroad. (Once you nail down specific geography some things become more or less "likely" is a specific place - e.g. if you're modeling the end of a rural branch in northern Canada you're probably not likely to see many Mexican cars. If you model a southern Texas mainline, you'll probably see a lot more Mexican traffic. It's been said "if you model ANY railroad in the 1950s you model the Pennsylvania Railroad" since their freight car fleet was so massive, you're almost guaranteed to see their cars almost anywhere.)


If you end up selecting a location or railroad you're interested in, it becomes possible to do more specific research on models and equipment that may have been operated by that railway.


The book "The Railroad: What it is and what it does" by John Armstrong is a good primer on how railroads work and operate.









The Railroad


Inside you'll find a comprehensive look at how today's railroads function-from equipment to procedures and marketing to maintenance.



www.goodreads.com


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

The 1950's is a broad range of 'happenings', depending on which railroad you speak of. By 1950 some roads like the Santa Fe had largely dieselized, while the Norfolk & Western stood up it's last main line steamer, Y6b Mallet #2200 in 1952, and would go on to rely on its immense tractive effort until about 1959 or so....not quite sure, but it was about the last Class 1 to drop fires permanently. Electric traction had been used by then for 40 years in Chicago and New York City because those municipalities were still heating with coal, and they didn't want even more coal smoke in the air in the inner city. Trains were handed off to electric motors instead. By the 1930's, the Penny had begun widespread use of their GG1 electrics.

So, what many of us do if we would like a range of tractive effort, electric, diesel, or steam, is to pick a site where several roads shared 'trackage rights' or crossed each other at diamonds so that we can run two or more roads with different emphasis on motive power. It's a notional world we live in when we enter the train room, and we get to say what's in it. Is that kewl or what?

Go to this site, or to the 'heritage' sites of the fallen flags and read up on what they used, where, and when. This site is a gold mine: Fallen Flag Railroad Photos (rr-fallenflags.org)


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

If you do a 4x8 layout in HO you'll have trouble getting a lot of operations, scenery and '50s feel into it. By the time you lay enough track to make for some fun operations, you'll not have much room for a town, some industries and wide-open country. If you have the room, a larger layout would be nice...or consider going with N scale, which is half the size of HO. You could get twice as much railroading on a 4x8 sheet. Granted, the selection of items is less than HO, but there is plenty of '50s stuff out there in N. The '50s is a great choice of eras...lots of late steam and early diesel stuff.


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## johnnystarr (12 mo ago)

Wow you've all given me a lot to think of! It looks like a lot of the HO stuff I was looking at is available in N.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

johnnystarr said:


> Wow you've all given me a lot to think of! It looks like a lot of the HO stuff I was looking at is available in N.


At 4x8 you'll be limited in HO. I have 4ft wide HO layout and i CAN run 85 foot car, I can only do so on my outer loop. If you can go a bit wider then you'll have more options on HO.

N scale is certainly small, but I enjoy my N scale stuff. It's a bit more difficult to work on, especially for electronics. But I can also run longer rolling stock in less space. My 8yo has no trouble handling them either (which is a complaint I hear a lot). 

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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

First generation diesels would be appropriate for 1950s. 
EMD GP7 was introduced in 1949.
EMD GP9 was introduced in 1954.
EMD GP18 1959.
Alco RS-3 was first produced in 1950.
Alco RS32 in 1961.

You can find such dates by looking up specific prototype locomotives on wikipedia.

Choosing a scale is really personal. There is no right or wrong, but what is best for the individual. A 4x8 can accommodate more N scale than HO, but in my opinion N requires a degree of dexterity & stable eye sight for example. Some people have that, some do not. So how much of a scale can fit into an area isn’t exactly relative per se’, but a question of what (if anything) is being traded for quantity? The answer to that is different for everybody. I wouldn’t decide hastily. 
4x8s are popular because it is the minimum size in HO for a loop on a single “board.” Not everyone finds a loop entertaining or desirable. Still others prefer an 18” shelf around a rooms 4 walls with a swing or lift up gate at the doorway.


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## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

I like the steam-diesel transition era. Allows for a lot of possibilities. I am a big fan of the RS-1 and RS-3. I also run a Mohawk (hence my forum name), Hudson, and a GG-1. I also have and E-3 and SW-1500 and others.

Most of my buildings are 50's style red brick and I use a lot of 40' box cars. My passenger cars are heavyweights but I really have no idea what predominated the 50's - probably some "modernism" scheme.

There are many anachronisms on my RR but they are all planned. I have a few modern automobiles, helicopters, and airplanes that are post 50's. But, no-one seems really notice.

As for scale - the smaller they get the more precise the track laying and elevations have to be. Some of my HO friends are AMAZED at how smooth my O scale trains run. I have dabbled in Z and it is soooooo hard to rail.

My understanding is the 85% of the market is HO, about 8% N, followed by O, S, then G. Other scales such as Z, TT, OO, T, and the narrow gauges are statistically insignificant - but ALL are fun......

And that is the point. Follow the three basic requirements TIME, SPACE, and MONEY to guide your selection of scale and have FUN.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Even if space is limited, a small increase from 4x8 to 5x9 (eg: ping pong table size) if possible, will give you a lot more options.


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## johnnystarr (12 mo ago)

Gramps said:


> Even if space is limited, a small increase from 4x8 to 5x9 (eg: ping pong table size) if possible, will give you a lot more options.


Is there a list of common sizes? I think I could pull off 8x6'


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

johnnystarr said:


> Is there a list of common sizes? I think I could pull off 8x6'


Well, most common is 4x8 because that's what most sheet goods (plywood and foam) come in. Then there are door layouts and ping pong tables. Other than that, it's what you desire and can fit. 

8x6 is a good space but you'll need to be able to reach the center of it somehow. A dog bone might work for you. 

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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I do agree...4 X 8 is not really a satisfactory size for HO...at a minimum,
go with 5 X 8 so you can have curve radius of 22"...which would enable
you to run steamers as well as larger diesels.

Starting a new layout means you will have to choose between the older
DC track power system, or the current DCC system. Most of us would
urge you to go with DCC...it is the easiest to install and the
easiest to run...it makes possible running 2, 3 or more trains at the
same time with only one controller and without complex wiring.
The DCC system gives you individual control of each loco...you
can have one continuously running around the layout while you
use another to switch cars in a yard to spot them at industries.
It's not complicated...if you can use a TV remote you can easily
run a DCC layout.

Don


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

johnnystarr said:


> Is there a list of common sizes? I think I could pull off 8x6'


As was posted 6' width could be a problem for reaching anything in the center of the layout. You should probably keep the maximum width at 5' unless you want to get involved with cutouts that you can "pop up" into the center. If you could post a floor plan of the room you would probably get some good suggestions for layouts.


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## johnnystarr (12 mo ago)

I have a 3x3' table that is very sturdy. Its sorta a poker table but its square. Would that work for N scale?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I think you need to stop and take a breath. You originally said you have room for a 4x8 "or maybe more". Later you said you could "pull off 8x6." Now suddenly you are thinking about 3x3 in N scale. If you have space limitations and 4x8 is the most practical largest size you can do, maybe N scale is the way to go especially if you have no problems with vision and hand dexterity. I think you should decide what type of track plan you want with the limitations of available space and work from there but take your time.


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## johnnystarr (12 mo ago)

Gramps said:


> I think you need to stop and take a breath. You originally said you have room for a 4x8 "or maybe more". Later you said you could "pull off 8x6." Now suddenly you are thinking about 3x3 in N scale. If you have space limitations and 4x8 is the most practical largest size you can do, maybe N scale is the way to go especially if you have no problems with vision and hand dexterity. I think you should decide what type of track plan you want with the limitations of available space and work from there but take your time.


Yes Gramps, I think you're right. I was originally thinking 4x8 HO and then moved to 3x3 N but I can certainly do 4x8 N as well. The wifey is a factor here so... yeah, trying to figure out a compromise


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Gramps said:


> I think you need to stop and take a breath. You originally said you have room for a 4x8 "or maybe more". Later you said you could "pull off 8x6." Now suddenly you are thinking about 3x3 in N scale. If you have space limitations and 4x8 is the most practical largest size you can do, maybe N scale is the way to go especially if you have no problems with vision and hand dexterity. I think you should decide what type of track plan you want with the limitations of available space and work from there but take your time.


I agree with Gramps on this. You're approaching this whole process bass-ackwards. FIRST OF ALL, decide where and what you are going to model (what area of the country, and which railroad). For this, there is no substitute for getting out there and doing some research. It's really not too hard to find out which railroads operated where and in what eras, or having found that, what kinds of locomotives and rolling stock they used, and what industries they served. You're going to be using some selective compression, modeling places that are far apart in the real world fairly close together Even in N scale, two towns 5 miles apart would be separated by 165' on a model railroad, a distance that is impractical for most home layouts. So you place them a couple of feet apart and "imagine" the greater separation. Conceptualize WHAT towns / areas you want to model. For example, do you want to MODEL the copper mine, or have it exist "just off the layout" somewhere. As you make decisions about this, the amount of space you need for your layout will start to come into focus. Scale may become a determining factor, as smaller scales let you fit more in the same space.

Now you can start to think about how you want to connect things together. Do you want the ability to run in a circle, or just have trains originate at one end of a layout and terminate at the other end, perhaps with arrangements to reposition them for the return trip. This will start to bring your layout shape into form. Longer distances are better simulated by longer, narrower layouts (a series of 2' x 8' modules strung together, for instance). Having a loop requires that some parts of your layout be wide enough to lay the loop on: 48" or more, depending on scale and how tight your curves are (longer equipment has trouble negotiating tighter curves). These considerations will help you define what you need for space (and there is no standard shape -- a layout can be any shape or size you can fit in your available space). Have a look at our track plans database (sticky threads in the Layout Design Forum section) for some inspiration. Search track plans on line. Model Railroader has an enormous database of them, available for a fee. I'm not saying use these plans -- they are for inspiration and ideas. Let your own creativity generate a track plan that suits you and your space.

Once you know what you need for your dream layout space, that's the time to spring for roses and a candlelight dinner and get SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) on board with the plans. DON'T surprise her. That won't end well. But get as much space as you can. More is always better.

And one other thing. If this is your very first go at it. Keep it small and fairly simple at first while you learn the skills you will need later. When you're ready, either expand that first layout, or ditch it entirely in favor of your dream empire.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

The late 40 to 50 and early 60s were times of transition so steam and diesel were the rule of the day.
Don't get hung up on trying to "get it right" at the start. Best thing is to get a good starter set to get something running and learn some HO dos and don'ts (like sneaky reverse loop shorts) and working with tracks.
Go to a few train shows/meets and look for old Model Raailroad and Trains magazines of the 1950 time period and peruse them for the pictures to see what was going on during this time and who was running what/when. See if there is a model train club or if there are HO modelers in your area who can give you pointers as well as who is good or bad for rolling stock and engines.
Yes you will make mistakes and maybe a few bad purchases but its all part of the learning curve. And at some point someone will be approaching you for advice and experience!


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

johnnystarr said:


> Hello all. I am very new to this whole world. I have been on the fence awhile but I want to take the first steps. My challenge is I do not know much about trains themselves. I LOVE the 1950s style scenery though, and think it would be really fun.
> 
> I am not 100% but I think I'm going to go with HO because I have the space and it seems to have a lot more resources. I really just need some help figuring out where to begin looking when it comes to 1950s locomotives. I have done searches on modeltrainstuff.com but I can't figure out how to search by year so I'm sorta stuck figuring things out.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the wonderful world model railroading and Model Train Forum, johnnystarr. Home to a whole bunch of good eggs.  And a few stinkers.  

Several years ago, Model Railroader/Kalmbach Publishers printed up a soft cover booket that would be right up your alley......................








I'm sure it's out of print now, but should still be available on the secondary market, and probably/possibly even with some dealers at model train shows. A great book for anybody to have, even if they don't want to model the 1950's.

Another great source of info. is available at your fingertips -browser searches for railroading images and videos out of the 1950's. There's tons of this stuff available on the internet. Start looking at pictures and watching videos, and you'll soon be up to speed on what you need to look for in the era of model trains that want to emulate.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

For locomotives:
Proto 1000:

RS 11
RS 2
Proto 2000:

GP7/GP9
SD7/SD9
PA
FA
Atlas:
- RS3

I believe LifeLike/Proto 1000 or 2000 also made some F-units.

The LL/Proto engines were from some years ago (Walthers bought LL in 2005 or so), but plenty of "new/old stock" is still available, also pre-owned engines in good running condition. The LL/Proto stuff generally make excellent runners, although they need a cleanout of old grease in their gearboxes, and often have cracked gears on the wheelsets (easily and cheaply replaced).


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

J.Albert1949 said:


> For locomotives:
> Proto 1000:
> 
> RS 11
> ...


All units that were produced / used in the 50's, for sure. Plenty of other manufacturers make those models too. But did his railroad of choice use all of them? Or any of them? What about steam? I mean, we could all throw a random list of locos out there, but it's better to get some reference material and find out what was actually being run in that part of the county, and by which railroad.

Incidentally, Proto 2K /1K locos are getting harder to find. Walthers has released many of these same models under their Proto (replacing Proto 2K) and Mainline (replacing 1K). Those are also excellent locos.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

Here is a hint that I have seen time and again on forums when someone asks what should I run or what era etc (paraphrased):
"Its your train layout, your money, your hard work,so you run whatever you want that pleases you"
Go ahead and run that 2022 Amtrak GG1 around your wild west/civil war/Jurassic Park era layout, who cares but YOU!!


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

rrman987 said:


> Here is a hint that I have seen time and again on forums when someone asks what should I run or what era etc (paraphrased):
> "Its your train layout, your money, your hard work,so you run whatever you want that pleases you"
> Go ahead and run that 2022 Amtrak GG1 around your wild west/civil war/Jurassic Park era layout, who cares but YOU!!


Sure but that's an unhelpful answer if what he cares about is actually representing the feel of a particular era or location, and he came right out of the gate asking about the 1950 and explicitly stated "I am wanting everything to be period accurate if that isn't obvious."

Obviously it's always true that you don't need to please anyone but yourself, but as a response to a request for information it's singularly unhelpful.

No one is saying "pick XYZ Railroad", but it IS helpful to _decide_ if you want to represent a particular railroad in a particular place in a particular time, or if you just want to do something generic but aiming for a certain theme/feel. There's no right or wrong answer to that question, but you answer will inform your layout design.

On the other hand, there's also some comments about whether he can use "this much or that much" space, and the space you have available will definitely be an overriding constraint, and that will limit or control what you can do.

The old track planners used to list "Givens and Druthers" for a layout design. These are very helpful things to consider and will help you inform your layout and model selection.

"Givens" are the fixed things that you CANNOT change. The physical size of the space you have available for example.
"Druthers" are the things that you'd really like to have (but may be compromised by the "givens"). You COULD change them if you really had to. Things like the theme (1950s, XYZ railroad, etc.), minimum radius standards, etc.

What would really be helpful for the OP to consider is his answers to some of these questions. What is the space you have available? What theme do you want to represent? Specific time frame or no? Specific railroad or no? Specific location or free-lance (fictional)? Then you can do research on that topic for appropriate model equipment, structures, etc. Or just see what's available and would fit into your layout if you're not particular about all that.

No one can tell you the answers to these questions - that's very personal preference, and to repeat no answer is right or wrong. But we can recommend that you at least consider these for yourself.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The 50's is a good era to model, as you can have both Diesel's and Steam locomotives on your layout.
In the 50's Diesels were slowly pushing away the Steam Locomotive, in the early 60's it was just about all Diesel's running.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Given you like Texas and the 50's era, I think a good idea would be to decide on what part of Texas or just a general overall impression of the state. I based my layout very very loosely on Texas and started with transition era stuff, but it is getting contaminated with other eras and trains because I am really more interested in trains than modeling any specific line, era, or area. So, since I live in Luling, which is on the east-west track from San Antonio to Houston, my layout is very flat. It has small town stuff, and being in Luling it has oil wells in the town and on ranchland outside of town. My son prefers the looks of the new style Dairy Queens (and I can't find a What-a-burger kit yet), so we have had some modernization in our little town. Since I grew up in Philly and I liked the trolleys we had there, we have a trolley loop in our town area and I just tell people it is based on the downtown loop in Dallas where they still have trolleys. This is where it gets to be how you want to do a layout instead of any requirement to be faithful to any specific theme.

I do agree with many of the others that you should consider these factors. I just wanted to point out that how detailed you make it to any of them is up to you.

If you go with a Texas area layout, I wanted to point out two places in Texas that I find interesting. Austin has a highway named after the train route (Mo-Pac) that it is run over. Even more interesting is that it did not replace the trains, and the highway is divided with an active rail line in the center median for part of it. This could be an interesting feature to model, though I am not sure when they built the highway like that.

The second place is the area around Houston and just west of it. Houston is a BIG city and it is very close to sea level. As you go west, it stays pretty flat for quite a while. As such, it floods easily with just a little rain. I was told (and have not verified) that the MKT line ran steam locomotives well into the 60s because of this. Diesels would short out going through the flooded areas, causing problems. Since there wasn't electricity in the locomotive drive train, steam locos could pull the trains through the marshy areas without a problem. They would then switch engines as they got far enough west and no longer had a flooding problem. This would allow you to run both early model diesels and late model steam locomotives on the same layout and still be faithful to the era you like and the Texas area.


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## tomoros62 (Nov 29, 2021)

johnnystarr said:


> Hello all. I am very new to this whole world. I have been on the fence awhile but I want to take the first steps. My challenge is I do not know much about trains themselves. I LOVE the 1950s style scenery though, and think it would be really fun.
> 
> I am not 100% but I think I'm going to go with HO because I have the space and it seems to have a lot more resources. I really just need some help figuring out where to begin looking when it comes to 1950s locomotives. I have done searches on modeltrainstuff.com but I can't figure out how to search by year so I'm sorta stuck figuring things out.
> 
> ...


There's a variety of magazines that deal with "Classic Trains", that will have pics of that era. There is a book, you can find it on eBay for example called "Modeling Trains of the '50's" by Model Railroader. Fun to read, helpful modeling tips. If you're a fan of a particular railroad or part of the country, find a historical society for that railroad or a railroad that ran through the geography you're interested in. The 50's are well represented by many great modelers and lots of products. Hope that helps a bit. Have fun.


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