# Couplers



## Pacecars (Apr 20, 2020)

First please forgive me for being an ignorant newbie. I have been ordering several locomotives and rolling stock but didn’t even consider that the older style cars would have different couplers than the locomotive. So basically I need to know the best way to change couplers and what brand to go with. Here are pics of the ones I have. 
I want to go from this









To this


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

I THINK? that that is a Micro-Trains "True Scale" coupler. Maybe someone can confirm this?
Will you need body mount couplers?


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## Pacecars (Apr 20, 2020)

The current ones are on the trucks so I don’t know


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Then u want truck-mounted couplers. Not sure if there is an MTL conversion but MAYBE somebody here has had dealings with those cars. I think Gra Far is made by Bachmann but it's not a US line. You may just have to make some couplers work... Try a little internet searching on the conversion.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

If no direct conversion maybe a True-Scale #1301 could be bashed onto the truck...Whatever you find, try just one on the first car so you have an adapter car to haul the rest. Just a suggestion.
Look on Micro-Trains website.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Pacecars said:


> First please forgive me for being an ignorant newbie. I have been ordering several locomotives and rolling stock but didn’t even consider that the older style cars would have different couplers than the locomotive. So basically I need to know the best way to change couplers and what brand to go with. Here are pics of the ones I have.
> I want to go from this
> 
> 
> ...


Pacecars;

No "forgiveness" is required! Newbies aren't supposed to know everything, they're new. I've been model railroading over half a century, and I certainly don't know everything. That's why I sometimes need to ask questions too. We may have had the odd member now and then, who thought he knew everything, but none of us really do. So don't sweat asking questions. That's what this forum is all about. 😊 

The coupler in your top photo is a Rapido coupler. These were standard on most old N-scale rolling stock. They were replaced in more recent years by knuckle couplers, like the one shown in your bottom photo. There are several brands of knuckle couplers but the best, and by far the favorite, brand is Micro-Trains.
Truck-mounted couplers are most easily replaced by replacing the whole truck/coupler assembly with Micro-Trains trucks with their excellent couplers attached.
Couplers can also be body-mounted to the frame of the car. If you have any locomotives, or cars, with body-mounted couplers then you may have a problem. It is better by far to have either all body-mounts, or all truck mounts.
Having some of each will often result in the body-mounted coupler on a locomotive pushing against the truck-mounted coupler on the following car, and derailing it. This is especially common on tight curves. If you plan to use curves tighter than about 14" radius, I would definitely pick one mounting system, probably truck-mounted, if at all possible. New locos, and even some new cars, including Micro-Trains passenger cars, are coming with body-mounted couplers. So, while it won't be as easy as swapping entire truck assemblies, body-mounting seems to be the way the industry is leaning, particularly on locomotives.

The attached file has more information on couplers.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

> "I THINK? that that is a Micro-Trains "True Scale" coupler'


And TractionFan, could you contribute here by confirming whether or not he has a Micro-Trains coupler on his tender?
Thanks!
Cid


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## Pacecars (Apr 20, 2020)

The bottom picture is a Broadway Limited Light Mikado


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## gimme30 (Jul 26, 2018)

That makes 'em Micro Trains #1015.
If you're going to convert buy the pre-assembled units.
Unless you LIKE high blood pressure.

Btw, does it run well?


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## Pacecars (Apr 20, 2020)

Isn’t that a body mount though?


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## gimme30 (Jul 26, 2018)

Bli claims that's a MT 1015 or compatible, which means pretty much any brand will connect to it whether truck mounted or not. MT makes a gazillion coupler types so you shouldn't have any trouble finding replacements for your rolling stock. Preassembled truck mounts will definitely be the easiest option!


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## Pacecars (Apr 20, 2020)

So if I want to replace them with MT trucks which ones do I want. There are a cap load and I would just prefer to do it the easy way and buy them in bulk to save a little money. Here is a view of the trucks:


gimme30 said:


> Bli claims that's a MT 1015 or compatible, which means pretty much any brand will connect to it whether truck mounted or not. MT makes a gazillion coupler types so you shouldn't have any trouble finding replacements for your rolling stock. Preassembled truck mounts will definitely be the easiest option!



So if I want to replace them with MT trucks which ones do I want. There are a cap load and I would just prefer to do it the easy way and buy them in bulk to save a little money. Here is a view of the trucks:


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

4-Wheel Passenger Car Trucks w/ adj.couplers 1 pr. (1017)


N Scale 4-Wheel Passenger Car Trucks w/ adj.couplers 1 pr. (1017)4 wheel passenger car trucks with assembled, adjustable Magne-Matic® couplers. 1 pr




www.micro-trains.com










Bachmann Medium Cplr Conv. (1133) (2pr)


N Scale medium shank coupler assemblies with adaptors For use with newer BACHMANN locos & cars equipped with #9722 & #9170 (medium shank) coupler assembly. (See Bachmann instructions for coupler assembly part numbers.)




www.micro-trains.com


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

The advantage of your existing trucks is the metal wheels...they roll easier than plastic wheels. But don't spend time worrying about that. I have some of the plastic-wheeled MT conversion trucks, and they work just fine. A little quieter too...less metallic clickity-clack.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Bachmann Medium Cplr Conv. (1133) (2pr)


N Scale medium shank coupler assemblies with adaptors For use with newer BACHMANN locos & cars equipped with #9722 & #9170 (medium shank) coupler assembly. (See Bachmann instructions for coupler assembly part numbers.)




www.micro-trains.com









4-Wheel Passenger Car Trucks w/ adj.couplers 1 pr. (1017)


N Scale 4-Wheel Passenger Car Trucks w/ adj.couplers 1 pr. (1017)4 wheel passenger car trucks with assembled, adjustable Magne-Matic® couplers. 1 pr




www.micro-trains.com




Just ideas, all I can offer. I think those trucks have plastic wheels. You might be able to swap in
your old plated wheels. New metal wheels from MTL would be much darker.
The 1133 is listed for Bachmann passenger cars, it might work. If the coupler
doesn't fit in the gear box, you would have to replace the box.

Good Luck !!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Isn't it possible to simply move his existing metal wheels and
axles to the new trucks? 

Don


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Yes, if the axle length and tips are the same, it's my understanding that there is not a real standard.


> You might be able to swap in
> your old plated wheels.


But definitely worth trying!!


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Thought I would just check a few:
New MTL metal axle overall length 0.529
New MTL plastic axle overall length 0.531
Used Atlas plastic axle overall length 0.555
Used Atlas plastic axle overall length 0.557


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

cid said:


> And TractionFan, could you contribute here by confirming whether or not he has a Micro-Trains coupler on his tender?
> Thanks!
> Cid


 cid;

It certainly looks like a Micro-Trains coupler, but since I haven't used any other brands of N-scale knuckle couplers, it may possibly be a different brand. Even if it is, that wouldn't affect the OP's idea. He wants to switch from Rapido couplers to a knuckle coupler, and I & others, recommended Micro-Trains.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Pacecars said:


> So if I want to replace them with MT trucks which ones do I want. There are a cap load and I would just prefer to do it the easy way and buy them in bulk to save a little money. Here is a view of the trucks:
> 
> 
> 
> So if I want to replace them with MT trucks which ones do I want. There are a cap load and I would just prefer to do it the easy way and buy them in bulk to save a little money. Here is a view of the trucks:


pacecars;

The car in your photos is a Bachmann "Old Timer" wood-sheathed passenger car. It uses "archbar" type trucks with a long coupler mount. Micro-Trains makes a replacement for this truck. However, while archbar trucks are appropriate for this civil war era car. They were outlawed many years ago for safety reasons. If all your cars are this vintage, then archbar trucks would be appropriate. Freight cars from these Bachmann "Old Timer" sets also used archbar trucks, but with a shorter coupler mount. 

Starting in the early twentieth century and lasting up to the 1960s, Bettendorf trucks were the most common type used. From 1960 to the present, roller bearing trucks have been used. Micro-Trains makes all three "era" types of trucks. Internally and functionally, all three are identical. The only difference is the outside appearance. More practical differences like that extended coupler mount on the Bachmann "Old Timer" car in your photos would be important.
The extended mount on that car lets the trucks be mounted closer to each other under the car, which lets it get around tight curves. With the trucks further in from the ends of the car, the long extended mount is needed. On other cars though, these couplers would stick out way beyond the ends of the car.
As some have pointed out, there are also trucks made for passenger cars more modern than this one. I model the 1920s when riveted, all-steel, "heavyweight" passenger cars were used. They rode on six-wheel trucks. Later lightweight "streamliner" type passenger cars rode on four wheel passenger car trucks.

So which kind of trucks you will need, depends on what era you're modeling, and what kind of cars you have. I'm afraid one size, and type, does not fit all. Can you send some photos of your cars, and tell us the time period your railroad is set in? That would help to determine the type of truck.

Traction Fan


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Hey TF, I'm pretty sure that those do not represent Arch-Bar trucks. In fact, I think they are modelled by the adjustable MTL 1017 4-wheel lightweight passenger truck, which I already suggested to Pacecars in an earlier post; maybe you did not see it. I don't know if it's era appropriate for that car, but that seems to be what was supplied. Of Course, I've been wrong before !!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

DonR said:


> Isn't it possible to simply move his existing metal wheels and
> axles to the new trucks?
> 
> Don


 Don;

Usually not. The axles are different lengths, and sometimes different diameters too. Also the metal wheels on many cars early enough to have Rapido couplers mounted on them, are wider in the tread than newer wheels, and would rub against the truck frames. Any of these things would mean the old metal wheels wouldn't roll in the new truck frames. The best way to have metal wheels and Micro-Trains couplers on a car is to use the original trucks & wheels, with the Rapido couplers cut off, and Micro-Trains couplers body-mounted on the car frame. The other option if you want Micro-Trains couplers truck-mounted is to buy Micro-Trains trucks, and replace the perfectly good plastic wheels that come in the trucks with Micro-Trains metal wheels, or other brands (Fox Valley, Intermountain) of aftermarket metal wheelsets designed to fit Micro-Trains trucks/cars. A bit cumbersome, and expensive, but it works. 

Regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

And TF, I like your timeline regarding the truck types, that is quite helpful!


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

My earlier suggestion would also be to keep the original trucks and wheels.


cid said:


> If no direct conversion maybe a True-Scale #1301 could be bashed onto the truck...Whatever you find, try just one on the first car so you have an adapter car to haul the rest. Just a suggestion.
> Look on Micro-Trains website.


By replacing the draft gear box for the coupler on the truck. Not sure how easy that would be, but likely less hazardous than putting a working coupler on an IHC steamer 🤣 😅 😆 IMHO
Coupler height could be an issue.


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## Pacecars (Apr 20, 2020)

Thank you all for the help and Traction Fan for all the literature, it has helped a lot. I think I found a solution. I am going to leave those cars as is and find an appropriate 4-4-0 old style locomotive to go with them. For now, since I have changed my mind every time I find a shiny new thing, I am going to go with the 20s to 30s era and use the Mikado to pull some heavyweight passenger cars. There seems to be a variety of passenger cars suitable for that era and I believe the Mikado would be an appropriate engine for that time frame. So many decisions are enough to drive you nuts!


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Good Deal, Pacecars, I do the same thing, so many options it's hard to settle on just one! 

Did u get a chance to put together any of your Kato track yet?


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## Pacecars (Apr 20, 2020)

I am still waiting on the M2 pack to get here☹ I just got 2 of the V packs in so as soon as that gets here I can get going! Mail is super slow around here lately. I have ordered a locomotive and 6 passenger cars from England (they all have the same coupler as the “Old Timer” car) and there is no telling when they will get here!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

cid said:


> Hey TF, I'm pretty sure that those do not represent Arch-Bar trucks. In fact, I think they are modelled by the adjustable MTL 1017 4-wheel lightweight passenger truck, which I already suggested to Pacecars in an earlier post; maybe you did not see it. I don't know if it's era appropriate for that car, but that seems to be what was supplied. Of Course, I've been wrong before !!


cid;

Well, you may be wrong again, or sort of right. Your message got me thinking about those old Bachmann wood passenger cars. I have three of them, and one of the old 4-4-0 "American" locomotives (the "Jupiter" think) and a few of the freight cars. I checked my three passenger cars and found three different types of trucks!
One of the cars is definitely equipped with archbar trucks, but I think those are Micro-Trains replacement trucks that I must have put on it years ago, not the Bachmann originals. 
Another car has Bettendorf trucks, which were not invented back when these wood cars were in use. Again, these trucks were replacements. The third car has trucks that do resemble, somewhat, the 4-wheel passenger trucks that came in with the streamliner era, nearly a century later than these cars. I say they resemble those more modern trucks, but they are "built-up" trucks, with many pieces held together by bolts. That was the same safety problem the archbar trucks had. Over time, they could come apart. If this happened under a moving train, well, things got ugly in a hurry! That might mean these are the trucks that came with the car. They show a cut where the (possibly extended) coupler mount was removed. I don't know the official name of this kind of truck. There were dozens of designs. The archbar, Bettendorf, and roller bearing are just the most commonly used types. The Bettendorf was made up of a few large solid castings, and so stayed together better than any of the "built-up" designs. The main drawback of the Bettendorf design was the solid bearings. They were lubricated by oil-soaked rags inside a "journal box" at each end of each axle. If the oil ran out, the rags could ignite. This was the notorious "hot box" that crews watched out for. If it wasn't taken care of immediately, a hotbox could burn the end of the axle off, and cause a wreck! Hence, the switch to roller bearings. Not only did they eliminate hot boxes, but their big advantage was less friction, meaning more free-rolling cars, less drag, and fuel & money saved.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Pacecars said:


> Thank you all for the help and Traction Fan for all the literature, it has helped a lot. I think I found a solution. I am going to leave those cars as is and find an appropriate 4-4-0 old style locomotive to go with them. For now, since I have changed my mind every time I find a shiny new thing, I am going to go with the 20s to 30s era and use the Mikado to pull some heavyweight passenger cars. There seems to be a variety of passenger cars suitable for that era and I believe the Mikado would be an appropriate engine for that time frame. So many decisions are enough to drive you nuts!


pacecars;

That sounds like a good decision. A Mikado pulling some 85' Heavyweight passenger cars would indeed be appropriate for the 20-30s (& 40s or even 50s) I model the 1920s and have two Kato Mikados and a slew of heavyweights. Those long cars need wide curves, so do eight-drivered steam locos like the Mikado. I had to change my minimum radius from 12" to 16" because of the Mikados. So, you might want to pass on those 9-3/4" & 11" radius curves. You're using Kato Unitrack. They have some wide radius curved pieces that should work well with your 2-8-2 & 85' cars. Your 4-4-0 and wood cars could occasionally be run as a fan trip. The original Bachmann 4-4-0, like the one I have, has the motor in the tender and a shaft connecting to the locomotive. It's an old three-pole motor, and a very light loco, so It won't pull much. I have a Roundhouse brand "old timer" 2-8-0 consolidation that is a much better running locomotive. You might look for one of those. If you have any interest in my 4-4-0 or wood passenger cars, you can have them cheap!

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## dalehenigman (Aug 21, 2014)

cid said:


> Then u want truck-mounted couplers. Not sure if there is an MTL conversion but MAYBE somebody here has had dealings with those cars. I think Gra Far is made by Bachmann but it's not a US line. You may just have to make some couplers work... Try a little internet searching on the conversion.


In my own opinion I prefer kadee couplers. With a little work you can convert truck mount to body mount. Truck mount cars don't shove all that well. In HO, my cars are easy rolling with kadee couplers and I can shove 100 cars around 24 inch radius and thru a turnout. My cars are also weighted to spec.


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