# MTH Engine question help please..



## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Aloha Everyone, new here and have a few questions maybe somebody here may know what's going with our set..
My 9 yr old came home with a train set that his grandma purchased for him for $20.00. It is a MTH Railking Ready To Run Set 2-8-0 Steam Freight Set (Santa Fe) that looks like it has never been used, no scratches or any signs of use at all.. came with all tracks, tranformer, remote, steam engine, steam tender, box car, tank car, caboose, etc.. only one problem, I can't get it to move.. I put the tracks together, hooked up the tranformer, followed the set up directions but the thing still will not move.. I took it apart and looked at the engine, brand new, the grease is still fresh and waiting to get mixed around..
I can get the whistle to blow and horn, The little small motor up towards the front, I believe it is the one that makes smoke, yes? well it spins fine and goes faster as I click the throttle up more..when I click the direction button on the remote it stops making a sound for a second and then starts with a humm again from that small engine.. The large motor thou I cannot get to do anything.. I read a few other posts about resetting it and tries the combo's but still nothing.. Is there any other way to tell if the motor works, Can II hook it up with some wires directly to the wheels to see if tthe mor spins like I used to do with my old HO sets??
Sorrry I'm rambling, past midnight here, If anyone has any ideas here I would really apprciate them, maybe I'll call MHT tomorrow.. I'm not even to sure how old this set is.. the part # of the set is 30-40880-0
Thanks- Scott


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Battery. All the info is at the MTH site in this thread. 
Welcome to this forum. It sounds like a goood deal.
If the electronics is bad you can jump the motor but the sound will be gone.
It may be a protosound version one.
It helps with a road name and cab number. SIte search gave a lot of choices.

Good Find B&M I had no luck. Need more practice.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Holy crap! $20 is a steal considering that this is a $300 MSRP set... I am guessing that this set is probably like 5-7 years old at the most...



> The little small motor up towards the front, I believe it is the one that makes smoke, yes? well it spins fine and goes faster as I click the throttle up more..when I click the direction button on the remote it stops making a sound for a second and then starts with a humm again from that small engine..


This statement here scares me into thinking that there may indeed be a problem with the main motor... Now, I have never actually looked inside of my MTH steamer, but like you, I am _assuming_ that the small motor that you see working is for the smoke unit... When you press the directional button it cycles the train through forward, neutral, reverse, and neutral, so this would explain why the small motor stops / starts moving when you press the directional button... It is just weird that this would work without the locomotive moving, which is why I think this points to a main motor problem... Of course, this is just my opinion...

Does the train make any special noises when the smoke unit motor is running? Like does it make any "chuff" sounds?

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T-Man said:


> It may be a protosound version one.


T-Man, according to the MTH site this particular model only has the basic Loco Sounds: http://www.railking1gauge.com/detail.asp?item=30-4088-0


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Boston&Maine, yes that is our set exactly.. It does not have the protosound , I think only the Loco-Sound like you said..
As for the train making a "Chuff Sound", I believe I did here it make it once.. but only one "Chuff".. 
One thing also is that I cannot get the light to come on on the engine, the bulb looks good too, I can see the wires inside are connected. The caboose does light up though when it all coupled together...
Here is the picture of my set..








It is a 30-4088-0 Santa Fe RailKing
I'll try calling this morning mth..
I appreciate the replys guys..


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Weird I posted a reply this morning but now it's gone..
Anyways I managed to get the light to come on, took the bulb out and cleaned the contacts, not sure if it was screwed down completely either.. Still cannot get this engine to do anything though.. waiting for reply from mth
As I said in the post earlier that has been "lost" Thanks for the replys guys, I do have the set that Boston and Maine showed the link to in the above post, It has the Loco-Sound, also got the "chuff" sound once but only once..
I'll keep chugging along here ..

Aloha


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Pineapple Express said:


> Weird I posted a reply this morning but now it's gone..


I just approved it... Keep us updated on what MTH says...

On a side note, the only MTH steamers I have seen have been PS 2.0... Just out of curiosity, does the one with Loco Sounds still have a wire cable that connects from the tender into the back of the engine cab?


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Boston&Maine said:


> I just approved it... Keep us updated on what MTH says...
> 
> On a side note, the only MTH steamers I have seen have been PS 2.0... Just out of curiosity, does the one with Loco Sounds still have a wire cable that connects from the tender into the back of the engine cab?


Ohhh ok, was wondering where it went....
Yes there is a black cable that connects the tender to a 5 prong on the back of the engine.
I spoke with MTH today and he said it sounded like a circuit board problem to him.. I'm now for some reason getting only a humming noise when I throttle it up and when I press either the horn or bell button it cuts the buzzing sound a few notches until I release the button.. kinda weird but I'm thinking it is the circuits also.. MTH said since it was LOCO Sound only the codes don't work like on the other type..
One more question: How hard would it be to install a new circuit board in this engine I have? There's no train shops where I live so I'm thinking of ordering one and hopefully sodring it in myself..


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I hope you are running it with the tender connected. Lack of sound was a bad battery.
Can't say anything without a diagram. Wires run to track, speakers ,motor. smoke. That's at least 8 wires to connect plus battery. get a picture and show us.


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

T-Man said:


> I hope you are running it with the tender connected. Lack of sound was a bad battery.
> Can't say anything without a diagram. Wires run to track, speakers ,motor. smoke. That's at least 8 wires to connect plus battery. get a picture and show us.


Hi T-Man - MTH said this model has no battery.. It's the loco-sound..
I don't have a diagram yet but here's a few pictures of what the engine and tender look like..
























































I'm just wondering if maybe one of the wires maybe got pinched or something along that line.. or maybe it is the circuit board.. Like I said before this train looks like it had never been run..
Thanks again for any help you can give //


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OK is the battery in your hand held unit good. Try it with the tender off. The switch probably shuts the smoke off. If you eliminate the obvious then you are in step by step checks. You could see about placing a voltmeter across the motor. The lines on the motor suggest a speed sensor. I have no idea on that black looking connection.
If you test the motor unplug the tender.You need to read everthing and go back. You should have a bell whistle not a bell horn.

From the tender picture the 7805 is your voltage regulator to run your circuitry. To the right are two large diodes that may be used for motor direction. The bottom picture shows a potentiometer. It adjusts resistance , not sure what for.


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## P&Wfan (Dec 16, 2009)

Pineapple Exp, were you able to get the engine running? I just had the same problem with my loco-sound 2-8-0 from the PRR pasenger set. I was all set to order a new circut board when I re-read the manuel and noticed the direction lock. I followed the instructions and was able to get the engine running again, apparently it was locked in neutral. You have to put the throttle to low and tap the whistle button once and the bell button three times. Let me know how you are doing.


Stephen
Shelton, CT


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Nope, no luck on my end with that, I tried several times. Now my engine sound is some weird distorted sound and lights won't come on.. I really believe it's in the board somewhere.. I will have to wait until I can send it to somebody to fix it or possibley sell it and buy a new/used engine off ebay or something..
I really wanted it to be puttin around the tree this year too.. oh well.


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## P&Wfan (Dec 16, 2009)

Was hoping that would work. Before I found this solution I had emailed MTH for a price on a replacement board, I have not heard from them yet and its been over a week. If you can get a replacement board their not that bad to replace on this engine, almost drop in, just a couple of plugs to disconnect, reconnect. Any shops in HI you can go to?


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

I just purchased a new/used engine on ebay MTH New York Central and was thinking maybe I could sell the one that I have been having problems with... I thinking it was going to cost me more than what I bought the new/used one for... so would anyone have any idea what I could get for this non working one?? just wondering, I was going to have my son put it on ebay maybe next week..
I'll post pics of hte new one as soon as we get it with the new track layout... CANT WAIT!!

aloha


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You don't need sound. If the problem is in the sound, turn it off?
Parts engine.

Selling on ebay is not as easy as buying, unless you are already set up for it.


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

I wish I knew where the problem was truthfully, I really now nothing about these trains except for what I've learned on this board (thank-you)... I may just end up keeping it for parts like you say.. although it's my son's and he could use the $$ to pay for the new one..

I'd like to buy some more track and make a larger oval maybe with 4 - 10" straights on each side with a curved switch track between those and connecting to the other side. I would also like maybe the width a little larger maybe putting a 10" or two inbetween the curves, Pretty basic I know but we will be taking it down after each use unfortunately, we don't have any spare space anywhere.. the track I have now is 8 curves that makes the 31" circle.. could someone tell me how many of each track to buy to where they will connect together correctly.. I'll be buying online since we don't have a store here on the island..
Here is a very rough sketch of the basic layout..








Thanks for any help again..


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

You have MTH RealTrax, right?

What are the exact dimensions of your space? I have a RealTrax program and can get you part numbers with their quantity...


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Boston&Maine said:


> You have MTH RealTrax, right?
> 
> What are the exact dimensions of your space? I have a RealTrax program and can get you part numbers with their quantity...


Great Boston&Maine, I was thinking keeping it within the size of a piece of plywood (4x8).. just in case I decide I want to mount in on and possibly hinge it onto the wall in our garage at some point.. just an idea though.. I was thinking of one remote switch track on one side to let it go over to the other side if possible..
If you could L\let me know what you come up with that would be great..

Thanks again..


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Here are two layouts for a 4' by 8' table which will give you about a two inch gap around the outer track... Just remember that with the first layout, going though the switches will reverse the locomotive's direction... The only way to change direction again would be to either back it up through the switches or manually take it off the track and switch its direction...


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I had to take a double look too. Clockwise you go through two switches to reverse. Counter clockwise you have to reverse through both switches. It can be done in three rail easy enough.


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

"Just remember that with the first layout, going though the switches will reverse the locomotive's direction..."

Hummm didn't think of that... Don't think I'll be doing that one..The second layout would be okay.. If I was maybe to go a little wider perhaps are there any better layouts? 
I tried searching but everything I see out there are really big layouts.. maybe one where there is only one switch? I know,... asking a lot, unfortunatly on a small budget..
thanks


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You need two switches for a loop. To cut expenses, you can get manual switches. Easy enough since you want a small layout within easy easch.


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks T-Man, I was tinkning about that, don't really need remote, kids would actually like the manual better..
Just thinking of the first layout... If I added a 45 degree crossover there in the middle I could make almost a figure 8 and train could run in both directions if I wanted without manually turning it around, sound right?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Yes, Look here for layout plans.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

T-Man said:


> Yes, Look here for layout plans.


That is a lot of layouts 



Pineapple Express said:


> If I added a 45 degree crossover there in the middle I could make almost a figure 8 and train could run in both directions if I wanted without manually turning it around, sound right?


Yes you can, and you can stay in a 4' x 8' footprint...


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

What a WHiZ!!!!!!!


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

T-Man, Wow - that was a lot of layouts, I was on that website last night for over an hour checking everything out.. Thanks
B&M - You nailed it, thanks that's the one I'm going with, I have the curves already, I found all the track for under 100.. now just need to get the 4 switches.. 
I'll take some pictures when finished.. 
Thanks again for your time.


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

One more question , Is there a diference in MTH "Rite Trax and Real Trax" ? I've seen both and was just wondering, don't want to buy the wrong stuff..
Mahalo


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

MTH only makes two types of track, RealTrax (molded ballast) and ScaleTrax (no ballast)... This is the first time that I have ever heard of "RiteTrax"... I Googled it and I have no idea why the sellers are calling it that... Personally, I would stick with buying from sellers that have it correctly titled as RealTrax...


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

That's what I thought... maybe it is an older division of MTH before realtrax??
Anyhow's that probably why it was the cheapest..
here's a picture of the packaging









Aloha and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Pineapple Express said:


> That's what I thought... maybe it is an older division of MTH before realtrax??
> Anyhow's that probably why it was the cheapest..
> here's a picture of the packaging
> 
> ...


Thanks for that picture; you learn something new every day... Evidently this is what RealTrax was originally called... The connectors on the end _look_ the same


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Could be a CHinese translation error?


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Nah....it didn't say "Clossova".


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Okay.. so I have my track ordered and should be arriving this week, thanks again B&M for the track layout, I found a disk in the box that the set came in but it won't work with my 64 bit computer sys.. oh well..
We received our new/ used engine and tender we bought and it works beautifully! lot's of smoke and bells and whistles, the kidz were all smiles.. and... so was I. 
I was wondering, would I be able to hook up the new tender I just got to the other engine to see if it works?? The connection looks the same and I believe there both the "Loco Sound", just did not want to short out or fry the new tender.. has anyone here done this before? I took a couple pics of the engines I have now..
















Aloha


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Aloha all, Well I received all of my track to make the above layout, thanks B&M again just having a small problem with one of the MTH Switch Tracks.. I bought one new and three off ebay that stated all worked perfectly.. One of the used switches I cannot get to work, This particular switch track will not light up any of the lanterns I have and will not switch automatically. The track has power to let the train go over the track but it will not do the automatic switch like the others do. I really want to get it fixed do I can start on laying it out on my plywood..
Also as in the above post, does anyone know If I can switch tender's on the above loco's to see if I can get the other to work?

Thanks Again


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Pineapple Express said:


> Aloha all, Well I received all of my track to make the above layout, thanks B&M again just having a small problem with one of the MTH Switch Tracks.. I bought one new and three off ebay that stated all worked perfectly.. One of the used switches I cannot get to work, This particular switch track will not light up any of the lanterns I have and will not switch automatically. The track has power to let the train go over the track but it will not do the automatic switch like the others do. I really want to get it fixed do I can start on laying it out on my plywood..
> Also as in the above post, does anyone know If I can switch tender's on the above loco's to see if I can get the other to work?
> 
> Thanks Again


Is the plug compatible for the engines? If it will plug in either I don't think it will hurt anything.

I didn't really know and thought someone would answer by now.

T Man? What do you think?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

He knows more about the two engines than anyone.
Are they made around the same time?
Do the guts in the tenders look the same? 
What part numbers do they have in common? 
Are they the same generation of sound?
Are the engines identical electrically?
The plugs have to be the same?
WHy are the plugs so darn complicated?
Do the engines operate without the tender?
Get more technical information on both of them.
Answer these and maybe .
Email MTH they made them.
I say no way. One is not working. They are too expensive to replace. I know very little about them.
That's what I think. I can't get into everyhthing. MTH engines is one of them.


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

big ed said:


> Is the plug compatible for the engines? If it will plug in either I don't think it will hurt anything.
> 
> I didn't really know and thought someone would answer by now.
> 
> T Man? What do you think?


Thanks big ed... It is the same plug on both tender and engine, looks like it will plug right in. I went ahead and emailed MTH tech help just to be safe though.. thanks for your time..

T-Man -
"He knows more about the two engines than anyone." - Really wish that was true, truth is I know nothing about trains and just trying to learn a few things..

Thanks anyways.. aloha


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Don't cut yourself short. They are fairly modern trains from a manufacturer I am unfamiliar with. I understand theory it apllies to all of them. I just don't want to give you bad advice. As I said, ask the simple questions and learn as you go. The manuals are are great place to start. Read up on everthing you can. Don't assume I am an expert I just assist. 
Above all, enjoy them.

"Anyone" refers to our discussions.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

T-Man said:


> I just don't want to give you bad advice.


Same here... I have seen MTH tenders selling on eBay by themselves, but that does not necessarily mean that they are plug-and-play with different product numbers :dunno:

STOP THE PRESSES!  I just checked an instruction booklet online and read this:



> *WARNING: DO NOT CONNECT THIS ENGINE TO A TENDER FROM ANOTHER ENGINE; IT MAY CAUSE SERIOUS DAMAGE.*
> Look at the bottom of the engine and tender where each will have a color-coded stamp. If they match you may connect those two pieces; if not, don’t.


From: http://69.20.67.75/sites/default/files/download/instruction/30rtr11868i.pdf


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Okay, B&M....take a victory lap!


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

B&M.. I owe you a mai tai next time your on Maui... Thank you very much for that information!! I have been waiting on MTH but had not heard back from them..
I believe the color coded sticker would be the yellow "loco-sound" which is on both of the engine and tender's, I may wait though just to be sure and see what MTH says..
Mahalo Nui loa to you braddah..


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

So Pineapple, do you have a layout set up yet?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Boston&Maine said:


> So Pineapple, do you have a layout set up yet?


If not send us around 5 round trip air tickets and we will come and help you in person.:laugh::thumbsup:

I think I can get at least 5 our members to come and build you a 50' x 50' layout if you have the space. 

Even though we might have to fight to see who goes.


_I love the Hawaiian Islands._


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## Pineapple Express (Nov 19, 2009)

Aloha B&M, big ed! 
Well......... Here's how the story goes... I bought all the track, new loco and tender, sold the old one that was giving me problems and even started building a layout on a piece of plywood.. Our garage flooded out about a month ago and had bad water damage inside so everything got put away in boxes until I can clear out a nice little corner.. I'm going to mount the plywood with track to the wall on hinges and make all the tunnels and buildings removable.. It's the only way I see that I can do it, unfortunately my garage is also my office and storage room for our shop..
As soon as I get it up and ready to mount I'll post some pics...
Big ed, mahalo's for the offer, wish I was a man with $$, wouldn't that be a cool thing to do out of the blue... ? Shaka back at ya too, ;
Aloha Friends


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## Luke 221 (Feb 12, 2013)

How easy is it to "gut" a PS2 locomotive and replace the board with a Dallee reverse unit and no sound?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Luke 221 said:


> How easy is it to "gut" a PS2 locomotive and replace the board with a Dallee reverse unit and no sound?


That is a question for Gunrunner John, I am sure he is typing as I type. 

Stick around.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Aloha Pineapple! See how the devil works? He finds you a set (a great little set, seems like) for twenty bucks (how can you lose?) and then hooks you. Welcome to three-rail hell!! We have lots of company for you. Your original steamer/tender is a little gem. Hope you find someone who can get that back for you. Trust me, if you do, you'll never regret it, because it will be your first big toy train "fix", so get ready for mainlining! Mahalo gets me in the heart; my wife and I remarried there 3 years ago. Totally love Hawai'i...


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Luke 221 said:


> How easy is it to "gut" a PS2 locomotive and replace the board with a Dallee reverse unit and no sound?


It's actually very easy to remove the PS/2 boards and install the basic reverse board. Note that you lose the audio unless you also add a horn board. Basic reverse boards have a handful of connections, the track power and the motors. If you buy the one that also supports lights, 

I suggest the Dallee #400, it offers a number of configurations to drive your lights as well as basic operations. I've used them in the past and they worked well.


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