# Insulating MTH PS3 Drawbar



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

GRJ and I exchanged a few emails the other day about my poor MTH PS3 PRR M1A and what was probably a momentary short between the drawbar and the trailing truck. John mentioned that he had an imperial Big Boy that had had a short and said he is going to insulate the truck. That got me to thinking about ways to best insulate the problem area. I have another PS3 steamer (a Reading T1 that has had zero problems) and I think I will do something to prevent the potential for a short. MTH PS3 steamers have a small clear plastic sheet that gets mounted to the engine drawbar post and is supposed to prevent the short, but it can rotate out of position and thus be ineffective. Some time ago, I was talking with the late Charlie Bussinger and he said he had thought about using crazy glue to keep the plastic insulator in place. I was thinking about using some brush on insulation on the truck and/or the drawbar. I’m wondering how John is going to insulate the Big Boy and if anyone else has ideas.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

I remember some guy used aquarium tubing over that part and it seemed to hold better than the plastic sheeting that MTH uses. I had similar issues.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm thinking I'm going to use a short piece of heatshink over the connector and bottom to hold the insulator in place and dress it up a little. That appears that it would do the trick.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

How about that plastic dip stuff for tool handles? Tape it off paint it on.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Why make a simple job complicated? Two minutes total expended time...


Cut 3/4" heat shrink section
Slip over drawbar
Apply heat from heatgun for 20-30 seconds.
Done

Net result.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I thought it was for a part that you couldn't slip it over, but would have to slice it . Didn't know how well that would hold. And you said to hold the insulator in place, I figured the other stuff would act s the insulator, see pictures help! And, FYI , if its not complicated its not fun lets see if we cant make a better lock on connection!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A better drawbar design would be a really good idea, I'm not impressed with the MTH one.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

I don't know if this applies, but I just had a PS-3 Lionel Tinplate Loco where the drawbar came detached. I plugged it again (and didn't kill the track power), and "pop" went the weasel, and now everything is DEAD! Pat, of Pat's Trains has told me a new board is $180. Expensive mistake.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Ouch Bob. I had a PS-3 Tinplate and the EXACT same thing happened. Now, I'm not sure if it was caused by the drawbar frying everything, but that's what my gut tells me. My MTH authorized repair guy agreed. After I called MTH, I returned it postage paid (UPS) by MTH and about a week later they sent me a new engine and tender. Depending on how old it is, you might want to give them a call. It might be worth a shot.
Sorry to hear it happened.

I do like the Gunrunner's solution he posted above. I'm going to insulate all of my wireless drawbars that way.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Todd, it's easy and looks like it should do the job.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If we're going easy I vote for electrical tape Seriously , I hope any fix works as this sounds like a bad design.


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## Steamfan77 (Jan 28, 2011)

John's solution is neat and simple. Very nice.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Electrical tape is temporary and sloppy, it's so easy to slide the heat-shrink on that I prefer that to the tape. However, _whatever blows your hair back_.


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## Marklx200 (Jun 14, 2015)

GRJ,

I don't have one of these so I don't have a dog in this fight. I am curios however. Are there soldered connections on the bottom of the draw bar that rub against the bar that seems to connect the two sides of the truck? That's what it looks like in the photo. If it is, the heatshrink looks like easy and elegant fix.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's the problem. MTH has a plastic shield, but it's prone to getting folded back and exposing the pins to short to the frame. When that happens, it's bye-bye PS/3 electronics, they do NOT like any connections to the frame! I left the plastic insulator in place as further protection and just shrunk this over the whole mess. It also keeps that plug on top firmly in, that's another place that is a problem at times, I've reseated a few of those to fix locomotives.


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## Hudson J1e (Nov 19, 2015)

GRJ, does your mod go on the tender side or the locomotive side? I have a few of these locomotives but I haven't run any lately. It seems it would be cheap insurance to protect the boards. Yours is an excellent idea. Thanks for the heads up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's the locomotive side, the tender doesn't have a problem with exposed contacts.


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## Hudson J1e (Nov 19, 2015)

Thanks a lot John. You're No.1 in my book!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Let me know my rating after you try the mod.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I finally got around to insulating the drawbar on my PS3 Reading steamer. I was planning to put heat shrink tape on the drawbar, but since this one has never come loose and the insulator is firmly in place, I decided to brush some liquid tape on the trailing truck. It’s perhaps not as elegant as John’s solution, but I think it will do the job if the drawbar or plastic insulator ever does come loose.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My only problem with Liquid Tape is it can wear off. The heatshrink is pretty robust. That being said, any insulation is far better than none!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I wish someone would make a slick conversion kit to replace the drawbar entirely with stronger piece (metal) and trouble free connections and such, something that was not prone to the cracks/breaks/whatever. I've had three that failed completely and severla more than have connectors that don't want to play nice when seating or removing. Frankly this are a pain. 

And I wasn't as neat as you GRJ. I just wrapped electric tape around mine that did this.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

GRJ; great idea. I have a Blue Comet that does this & will now fix it when I get home. Thank you for the idea. :thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That was the 3rd MTH Imperial Big Boy in for repair, all had a smoked PS/3 board. I figured that maybe it was time to address the root cause!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

My M1a Mountain is back on the roster thanks to MTH ASC Certified Tech extraordinaire GRJ. John installed heat shrink tape on the drawbar that will keep the plastic insulator from rotating out of position. I brushed some liquid tape on the trailing truck and the tender end of the drawbar for good measure.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It would have been nice to get the heatshrink tight, but that was the smallest stuff that would fit over the connectors. Taking the drawbar apart seemed like overkill.  The round shape looks like the coal auger.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

It's tight enough to keep the plastic insulator from moving so it's doing it's job.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

How frustrating it is that MTH won't do what's right and solve this problem for its many customers. Maybe they see it not as much of a problem as an unanticipated, unexpected free cash cow selling replacement boards for those that get fried because of their current design..
So, truthfully, Lee, GRJ, and others with PS3 steam engines, given the choice between having identical steamers, one being an earlier PS2 version with the wired drawbar and the other the new PS3 version with the wireless drawbar, which would you opt for? Asking this because I've debating on whether to buy a new, never opened PS2 version of a long sought after steamer where the dealer won't budge from selling it at MTH's original MSRP or a soon to be released PS3 version of that same loco. Honestly, after hearing these horror stories of the PS3 wireless drawbars, I find myself in a quandry, truly perplexed as to which one I should purchase, the PS2 model or the PS3 model.
Any additional feedback and/or further suggestions from you guys would be appreciated.   :dunno:


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> A better drawbar design would be a really good idea, I'm not impressed with the MTH one.


First of all thanks for the photo - it answers a question on another thread about _exactly where_ the shrinkwrap goes. I'm picking some up in an hour. 

I completely agree that the drawbar is a bad design. So bad I consider it a design flaw and product defect. My main objection is not the shorting (I have not had that happen). My problem with it is:
a) it breaks - cracks of otherwise looses connectivity and has to be replaced.

b) it is hard to clip in and unclip compared to Loinel's IR coupled, to the point I have lean once I get it seated, leave it in place. Most of the problems I have with them are uncoupling or recoupled, so now I never uncouple a steamer and tender and keep them coupled on the shelf and when I pick them up to put them on the track etc. Means I have to handle both loc and tender at once while putting no pressure/twist/etc on the drawbar that might break it. Delicate and fussy. I hate it.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> A better drawbar design would be a really good idea, I'm not impressed with the MTH one.


I agree. 

No more MTH steam for me as long as they use that lame drawbar.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

ogaugeguy - I would probably go for the PS2. I don’t think I will buy another PS3 steamer until they fix the drawbar issue. I’ve never had a tether come loose and if it did, it wouldn’t short on anything. The tether isn’t terribly realistic, but I don’t mind. The drawbars also aren’t terribly realistic in that they put too much distance between the cab and the tender. The PS2, even at full MSRP, is probably a good bit less than a new PS3. One drawback to the PS2 (if it’s more than 5 years old) is that it won’t have warranty coverage. The other drawback is that if it was made before 2008 (I think) it won’t have the SXS crossing (2 longs, a short, and a long) soft key.

Lee – Where the heat shrink tape goes may depend on the loco. I think the picture that John posted is a big boy and the heat shrink tape goes over the drawbar to loco plug. That will ensure the plug never comes loose. On my M1a, the heat shrink tape does not go over the plug. It won’t keep the plug from coming loose, but it will keep the plastic insulator from rotating out of position and exposing the solder connections on the drawbar. I don’t see a problem with separating the loco and tender for storage. I haven’t had a problem with the tender connection coming loose (as long as I plug it in correctly).


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Well that didn’t last long. After about 15 minutes run time, the M1a started acting erratically. It would lose power / hesitate for an instant at random and then start going again. I checked to see if the cab drawbar connector had come lose. It looked OK, but the insulator had rotated out of position. It looks like for this loco, the heat shrink tape won’t work. I brushed some liquid tape on the cab side of the drawbar and stuck the plastic insulator in position while it was still wet. Even though the cab drawbar connector seemed tight, I pressed it together anyway and tried the loco again. It’s still hesitating at random intervals. Wasn’t there a thread here recently about a jinxed loco? I think I’ve got one.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

On some of them you can put HS right over the bottom of the connector, but this one there was no way to do that.

I think the solution here is to actually take the drawbar off and then take a piece of heatshrink and cut a hole in it. Put it over the drawbar at the circle and let the top connector stick out of the heatshrink. That will keep the protection over the exposed contacts.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I think the plastic insulator will stay in place now that it’s stuck there with liquid tape.

What concerns me more is the momentary power loss that seems to happen at random. Seems like a wire or connection is lose, but both the tender and cab drawbar connections appear to be firmly connected. The cab connector didn’t seem to have any excess wire (it wouldn’t pull down easily from the cab and I didn’t want to force it). I’m not looking forward to it, but I’m thinking about removing the cab/body so I can get better access to the connection, make absolutely sure the drawbar to cab connection is tight and then using the HS tape on the connection to keep it tight.

If that fails to correct the problem, I’m thinking about making a drawbar that is truly wireless and soldering in a 6 wire tether.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

As I recall, that one wasn't super difficult to take apart. If you like, next time you're down this way, I can take it off and maybe see what's happening.

You could use the Hi-Rose connectors to make a tether and craft a real drawbar, that would work.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The body was easy to take off…four screws. The drawbar connection to the cab looked good, but when I moved the drawbar from side to side, I could see some play between the plug and socket. The engine came with a 45 mm drawbar. I had a spare 35 mm drawbar, so I put liquid tape on the solder connections and tried it. No play between plug and socket when I move the drawbar side to side… and it ran for about 10 minutes without any hiccups. Looking closely at the old drawbar, it has a dent in the side which probably kept it from seating completely. I’ll get another 45 mm drawbar next week (probably have to get a set with 3 sizes) and it should be good to go


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

And we have a winner!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Ever since I replaced the drawbar on my M1a, the plug at the cab has had zero problems. However, the plug at the tender has come lose 3 times (always at a hard to reach spot on the layout). I know the plug was well seated each time when I assembled it, so I’m thinking the fit with this plug just isn’t right. It looks like in addition to being a bad design, the drawbars are not consistent (some plugs stay tight, others don’t). I was thinking once again about a using a wire tether, but decided to use a wire tie to keep the tender plug tight. Hopefully this will keep the M1a from stopping dead in its tracks under the mountain or 7 feet from the side of the platform.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I use black ones so they don't show up, but that's a good fix.


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## PennsyRailfan (Aug 10, 2020)

Lehigh74 said:


> GRJ and I exchanged a few emails the other day about my poor MTH PS3 PRR M1A and what was probably a momentary short between the drawbar and the trailing truck. John mentioned that he had an imperial Big Boy that had had a short and said he is going to insulate the truck. That got me to thinking about ways to best insulate the problem area. I have another PS3 steamer (a Reading T1 that has had zero problems) and I think I will do something to prevent the potential for a short. MTH PS3 steamers have a small clear plastic sheet that gets mounted to the engine drawbar post and is supposed to prevent the short, but it can rotate out of position and thus be ineffective. Some time ago, I was talking with the late Charlie Bussinger and he said he had thought about using crazy glue to keep the plastic insulator in place. I was thinking about using some brush on insulation on the truck and/or the drawbar. I’m wondering how John is going to insulate the Big Boy and if anyone else has ideas.


Ahh yes!! Mine had one. I will check it. I think it fell off when I replaced the draw bar. Good thing I didn’t vacuum. Ok I will see


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