# Passing siding design help



## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

I had a link to a site that had a design layout of a passing siding.
it had the make and type of turnouts and the make and model of all the track segments to make everything line up.
Does anyone have that link, or have the info I'm looking for? I'm using AnyRail and nothing I put on the grid lines up.
Thanks
emp1953


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## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

It looks like this.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

You can put flex track into any alignment.

I think but not 100% sure if you use Atlas snap-switches the little 1/3 of a standard curve piece will either make the turnout fit into a 18" radius curve (but with a ~1" straight piece at the points) or use it to make parallel tracks. If not, a little rail trimming will make things fit.

Any other turnouts (and possibly for the snap switches as well, expect to cut to fit. Particularly you will definitely end up cutting the straight pieces to length or using some of the weird little short fitter pieces.

Either way, a siding is just two switches and some parallel straight track in between. You may need to trim some track and not get everything 100% lined up with sectional track pieces, but it's not rocket science.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

If you look carefully at the end each turnout's diverging route, as depicted in the graphics you show, you'll see that they reverse the diversion just prior to running parallel to the mains. No turnout does this. You have to create it, or allow for it, in any subsequent iterations, examples, variations, or constructions.

I see that the depiction suggests sectional track.....? Very costly. Tangent tracks, especially, are great places to save some money, some time, some complication, and some frustration, but resorting to the use of two or more lengths of flex track. You have two (2) lengths of tangent tracks in parallel where you really ought to use flex track.

I would expect that you know what the frog # means for a turnout? The smaller the number, the grosser the angle of divergence at the frog and beyond. If you picture this wide angle, you'll also intuitively see that your next curve, the one right afterwards that brings the angle back to parallel with the main, is going to be that much more abrupt or short-radiused. With a short #4 or #4.5 turnout that sectional track usually entails, you could end up with an S-curve by having to fashion that short-radius reverse curve to bring the lengths back to parallel. Not good for passenger cars longer than about 60 scale feet, especially if you're using frame-mounted couplers.

If I can persuade you to abandon your search for the diagramme, just go to sites selling turnouts, find out their dimensions, and then mock up on a plank of plywood or cork, or even a drywall remnant, the geometry you're contemplating. Run the cars over it to see if there are severe constraints.


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## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

mesenteria said:


> If you look carefully at the end each turnout's diverging route, as depicted in the graphics you show, you'll see that they reverse the diversion just prior to running parallel to the mains. No turnout does this. You have to create it, or allow for it, in any subsequent iterations, examples, variations, or constructions.
> 
> I see that the depiction suggests sectional track.....? Very costly. Tangent tracks, especially, are great places to save some money, some time, some complication, and some frustration, but resorting to the use of two or more lengths of flex track. You have two (2) lengths of tangent tracks in parallel where you really ought to use flex track.
> 
> ...


What you say is exactly what I am seeing. My heavy passenger cars don't like the radius of the curve I am getting the way I am doing it. I am using flex track already. As my original post states at one time I had a link to a site that had a passing siding laid out with the little piece of straight and little piece of curve to get it to match up with the parallel main.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Okay, then what you want is one of two things:

a. a longer, more shallow angle #6 or even a #8 turnout to get you more length from the points end, and also a wider radius turn back to parallel with the main; or

b. a short tangent length extension, perhaps 5 cm at most, beyond the diverging end of the turnout before you begin your curve back to parallel. This would widen the distance from centre-track-to-centre-track between the siding and the main...if that might be a problem.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

emp1953 said:


> What you say is exactly what I am seeing. My heavy passenger cars don't like the radius of the curve I am getting the way I am doing it. I am using flex track already. As my original post states at one time I had a link to a site that had a passing siding laid out with the little piece of straight and little piece of curve to get it to match up with the parallel main.


emp1953;

The diagram shows reverse curves at each turnout as the track curves first left, and then immediately right, in order to get the main line, and siding, tracks parallel to each other. Now a certain amount of this is inherent in the layout of passing sidings, but there are bad and better ways of doing it.

BAD:
Probably the worst possible scenario is also, ironically, the most common. Most newbie modelers use Atlas "Snap Switch" turnouts, which have one straight, and one curved, route. They then add (per the Atlas track plan booklet) that little short section of curved track that cv_acr mentioned, onto the end of the curved route, but with the curve direction reversed. (again, per Atlas's directions) Both the 1/3 curved section that comes with the Atlas "Snap Switch" turnout, and the curve built into that turnout, are 18" radius, a very tight curve for HO-scale. Thus, our intrepid modeler has just, unknowingly, created the mother of all reverse curves. The car starts out being rolled through a tight 18 r. curve to the right, and then SLAM, right into a tight 18"r. curve to the left. Even at slow speed, some HO-scale cars, like the passenger cars you mentioned, are going to have a very hard time with this track arrangement .

BETTER:
A better way is to first use different, & better, turnouts. With the exception of curved turnouts, all other brands of model turnouts, and even Atlas's own "Custom Line" turnouts, have two straight routes, with no built-in curves.
Peco is probably the most reliable turnout commercially available, in terms of not derailing things, so I would use Pecos. I would suggest using their "medium" turnout, which is roughly equivalent to a #6 turnout. If you have the room, you could even use Peco's "large" turnout, which is roughly equivalent to a #8 turnout. Then I would run some straight track out of the diverging (siding) route of the turnout directly in line with the frog's angle. Ideally, It's recommended to go straight out the length of your longest car's wheelbase. This is another advantage of using the largest frog # turnout you can fit. It will let that straight track extension stay closer to the main line.
After the straight track, use a wide radius curve to bring the siding back parallel with the main. If you do things this way, you should have no problems running your passenger cars, or anything else, onto the passing siding.

The photo shows a crossover made with two #8 turnouts, and a # 5 turnout at the right for comparison.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

emp1953 said:


> I had a link to a site that had a design layout of a passing siding.
> it had the make and type of turnouts and the make and model of all the track segments to make everything line up.
> Does anyone have that link, or have the info I'm looking for? I'm using AnyRail and nothing I put on the grid lines up.
> Thanks
> emp1953


Offhand, I'd say any make of turnouts can be made into a passing siding. Because no two brands of commercial turnout have the same dimensions, it's virtually impossible to say exactly what you were looking at.

So you say "nothing lines up" This does. There is some slop in the assembly of Atlas Snap Track that makes the pieces not quite mate (lengths -- the track ends are dead on) in AnyRail, but it works on an actual layout. Just about any combination of lengths in the middle section will work.










Material List is as follows: 
Track
150, H0 Atlas Code 100, Straight 9". (bulk) 7
821, H0 Atlas Code 100, Straight 9". 1
822, H0 Atlas Code 100, Straight 6". 1
835, H0 Atlas Code 100, Curve radius 18", angle 10º 4
847-1¼, H0 Atlas Code 100, Straight 1 1/4". 1
847-1½, H0 Atlas Code 100, Straight 1 1/2". 1
860, H0 Atlas Code 100, 860 Snap. Left turnout 9". (manual) 1
861, H0 Atlas Code 100, 861 Snap. Right turnout 9". (manual) 1

You didn't specify a scale, so I used HO. Point of the matter is, yes you CAN do it, you just have to get the right pieces. 

As Traction Fan said, though, just because you can draw it doesn't make it a good idea. A far better plan would be to use flex track and better quality turnouts:









I didn't waste too much time trying to make the tracks perfectly parallel, but it can be done. This uses 2 Peco #6 turnouts and 4 pieces of Peco flex track, but avoids the nasty S curve and fiddling with tiny track segments that the Atlas requires, as well as the trial and error necessary to hit on just the right track configuration..


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## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

CTValleyRR said:


> Offhand, I'd say any make of turnouts can be made into a passing siding. Because no two brands of commercial turnout have the same dimensions, it's virtually impossible to say exactly what you were looking at.
> 
> So you say "nothing lines up" This does. There is some slop in the assembly of Atlas Snap Track that makes the pieces not quite mate (lengths -- the track ends are dead on) in AnyRail, but it works on an actual layout. Just about any combination of lengths in the middle section will work.
> 
> ...


I would like very much to use only flex track. I have a bunch of Atlas code 83 #505 & #506 turnouts. What do I use to consistently make the curve in the flex track consistent? I've butchered several flex pieces trimming them but I am better at it now. Where these mate to the turnout there sill be insulators. I have power soldered to each section so I have better control. These passing sidings will be in my fiddle yard but I want it to look good when done.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

To keep from butchering flex, lay the first length along your centreline. Lay the other length with the non-sliding rail about 1/16" (2mm) from the non-sliding rail on the first length, and see where the sliding rails need to be trimmed...also with about 1/16" of a gap ideally. Trim one, or both, sliding rails, but you'll also have to note where their joint will be and remove two ties there, or cut a joiner in half and remove one tie, or file off the plate and spikehead details so that the joiner won't lift the joint and cause a bump there.

The beauty of flex track is that it fashions the curve you need for everything to come together automatically. It even makes an approximation of a cubic spiral easement into and out of the apex of a curve. So, what you should really confine your mental powers to is where you want the siding to be relative to its more important partner. Will that be two inches on centre, two-and-a-half inches, ...figure out what you need, get a #5 turnout on either end, and let the flex track curve as it needs to in order to meet the diverging routes of those two turnouts. It's really as simple as that.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I find that a couple of curve templates helps in making good curves. Anyrail keeps me honest by highlighting the track when I curve it too sharply. Real flex track doesn't do that, so I use templates to keep me from making curves that are tighter than my minimum radius. I also use MicroEngineering flex track, which stays curved after you bend it. That makes it easier (for me, at least) to line it up and curve it properly.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

emp1953 said:


> I would like very much to use only flex track. I have a bunch of Atlas code 83 #505 & #506 turnouts. What do I use to consistently make the curve in the flex track consistent? I've butchered several flex pieces trimming them but I am better at it now. Where these mate to the turnout there sill be insulators. I have power soldered to each section so I have better control. These passing sidings will be in my fiddle yard but I want it to look good when done.


emp1953;

Are your Atlas code 83 # 505 & # 506 turnouts Atlas "Snap Switch" turnouts? (which have a plastic frog, one curved route, and one straight route) Or are they Atlas "Custom line" turnouts? (which have a metal frog, no curved route and two straight routes)
If they are Snap Switches, then frankly, I don't recommend using them on your passing siding. The built-in curve is likely to cause problems. Long cars and locomotives are particularly likely to derail on that type of turnout. Also Snap Switches have approx. a # 4 or # 4.5 frog, which is a very sharply diverting turnout. 
If, on the other hand, they are Atlas "Custom line" # 6 , or # 8 turnouts, they would be a much better choice, though not as good as Peco, or Micro Engineering turnouts would be.

The Snap Switches can be improved, the files below tell how this can be done. However, the tight 18" radius curve built into the Snap Switch turnouts can't be fixed. The curved leg can be cut down to minimal length to lessen the effect of the curve, but I don't know that cutting turnouts is something that you even want to attempt, since I gather you are fairly new.
The object of such turnout surgery would be to get the curved, "diverging route" (the one going onto the siding) closer to being a straight route.
It would be a lot easier to simply buy turnouts which already have straight diverging routes. That would be any model turnout other than the Atlas Snap Switch. It is the only commercial turnout made with one straight route and one curved route.

The fact that you "have a bunch of turnouts" does not necessarily mean that you have a bunch of GOOD turnouts. Can you send a photo, and any other description, of the turnouts you have? I'm not familiar with Atlas's track section numbering, so "# 505 & # 506" don't mean anything to me.
I do have a sneaking suspicion that they are just code 83 Snap Switches, one right hand, and the other left hand. Is that correct?

Traction Fan


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## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

Thank you all for the great advice.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The 505 / 506 turnouts are the Custom Line #6, so they're OK to use, not the crummy Snap Switches. Anyway, any diagram you had used on line showing a neatly fitting passing siding using sectional track would have used Snap Switches with their curved legs and small curve pieces in the opposite direction to return to a parallel track. This arrangement would have been even more of a disaster for your long passenger cars than your attempts with flex track have been.

The trouble with flex track is that nothing stops you from bending it into s very tight curve. I'm told people have successfully used flex track to create curves of 9" or less. Your big coaches want at least 22" and would be happier on 24" or broader. This means shortening up the straight segment in the middle to achieve a nice, broad curve.

In AnyRail, make sure you use the correct part # for your turnouts (the libraries can be set to show the part number, or just hover your mouse over it). Set your "Minimum Radius" for 22 or 24" and make sure "Alert on Curves Too Sharp" box is checked (both under Settings). This will put a red line in any part of your flex track that is too sharp. Use the plus signs connected to the ends of the flex track to shape it. Play around until younger the hang of it. Alternatively, you can right click on the piece of flex, select "Curve Flex" and tell it what radius and how many degrees of arc to use (360 is a full circle), and it will create a smooth curve to the dimensions you specified, although some trial and error will probably be necessary to get the tracks parallel. You can then take measurements off the drawing to know where to cut or where to end your curve. The "Add ruler" feature is very helpful here.

Like anything else, laying flextrack is a skill that takes some practice to get right.


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## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

I've been looking at the Peco turnouts. From what I've seen, none are powered and are either manual or require a switch motor. Do the tortoise switch motors work well with these turnouts?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

emp1953 said:


> I've been looking at the Peco turnouts. From what I've seen, none are powered and are either manual or require a switch motor. Do the tortoise switch motors work well with these turnouts?


emp1953;

Actually, "powered" turnouts, (meaning those with a switch machine either built inside of, or attached to, them) are the exception, rather than the rule. The Atlas "Snap Switch" and the two common "roadbed track" turnouts Kato Unitrack & Bachmann EZ-Track, are the only common commercial turnouts that actually come with switch machines included. Peco, Micro Engineering, Shinohara/Walthers, and even Atlas's own "Custom Line" turnouts are all sold without any switch machines.
Peco makes a twin-coil switch machine that they call a "point motor." There are two versions. One snaps directly onto the bottom of a Peco turnout's plastic tie strip, and the other snaps into the side of the Peco turnout, above the table. Both are excellent snap-action solenoid type machines which are activated by a short pulse of either AC or DC. (Ideally an instantaneous burst of DC from a Capacitive Discharge Unit.)

The Tortoise is different. Its a DC-only "stall motor" type switch machine. It operates with DC voltage constantly applied. Reversing the polarity of this constant DC voltage moves the points of the turnout to the opposite route. The Tortoise will indeed work quite well with Peco, or any of the other brands of commercial turnouts I listed above, that are sold without switch machines.
The Peco, and Micro Engineering, turnouts feature an internal spring that makes them excellent manual turnouts right out of the box. This spring holds the point rail tightly against the stock rail. This spring is essential when using the Peco switch machines, but unnecessary when using a Tortoise, Switchmaster, or other stall motor machine, since these hold the point rail tightly against the stock rail by their own operation. Some modelers therefore remove the spring from their Peco, or Micro Engineering, turnouts, in order to get slow, but positive, movement of the points, instead of a quick snap action, when they use a Tortoise. The springs are easy to remove, or you can just leave them in. Peco turnouts can also be operated by Caboose Industries ground throws, or mechanical linkages for distant turnouts. The files below explain more about turnouts, switch Machines, and how to make your own switch machines.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

traction fan said:


> emp1953;
> 
> Actually, "powered" turnouts, (meaning those with a switch machine either built inside of, or attached to, them) are the exception, rather than the rule. The Atlas "Snap Switch" and the two common "roadbed track" turnouts Kato Unitrack & Bachmann EZ-Track, are the only common commercial turnouts that actually come with switch machines included. Peco, Micro Engineering, Shinohara/Walthers, and even Atlas's own "Custom Line" turnouts are all sold without any switch machines.
> Peco makes a twin-coil switch machine that they call a "point motor." There are two versions. One snaps directly onto the bottom of a Peco turnout's plastic tie strip, and the other snaps into the side of the Peco turnout, above the table. Both are excellent snap-action solenoid type machines which are activated by a short pulse of either AC or DC. (Ideally an instantaneous burst of DC from a Capacitive Discharge Unit.)
> ...


Thanks. lots of info to help with my decision.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

emp1953 said:


> I've been looking at the Peco turnouts. From what I've seen, none are powered and are either manual or require a switch motor. Do the tortoise switch motors work well with these turnouts?


As Traction Fan said, none of the better turnouts come powered. And for the ones that do, it's a poor quality twin solenoid actuator.

Tortoise motors are certainly a popular option. Myself, I prefer servos from Tam Valley Depot (www.tamvalleydepot.com). Walthers' new Turnout Control System is very similar -- a little more polished, but more expensive. The nice thing about these is that it's all plug and play using standard RC cables. Mif you can plug in a lamp, you can hook these up. They also use a slow motion to move the points, but unlike a stall motor, only draw power when actually moving; positive contact with the point rails is maintained by the "spring" in the actuating wire.


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## ecmdrw5 (Jan 16, 2021)

AnyRail has some libraries on their site. I like to use the Peco library.  https://www.anyrail.com/en/library/0010_H0_00/0280_Peco/0030_Streamline_Code_83


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## emp1953 (May 13, 2017)

ecmdrw5 said:


> AnyRail has some libraries on their site. I like to use the Peco library.  https://www.anyrail.com/en/library/0010_H0_00/0280_Peco/0030_Streamline_Code_83
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The geometry downloads were extremely helpful


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