# How to light my layout - ideas anyone?



## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

As a few of you may know, I am having a glass top coffee table built to contain an N scale layout. The layout will be contained in a drawer that pulls out for access and it will be completely removable for working on the layout. My biggest question right now is how to get light into the table under the glass. The tracks will be roughly 4.5" under the glass. The sides are wood so no light will come in that way. My apartment is usually pretty dimly lit, and when it's not, there are reflections on my current glass top coffee table, so lighting from the outside in is less than ideal.

So, there will have to be some significant light from the inside. LED strips pointing down along the four edges are a possibility that I am considering, but I don't think they will look very good, leaving a bright band of light only around the edges. I can only install so many street lights in the center of the layout, much of which will be farm land. I'm wondering if there is a way to mount and disguise some LEDs next to the tracks shining outwards to illuminate the trains.

Imagine yourself looking down at N scale trains 4.5" under glass in a drawer in dim light. What would you do? I know, don't put trains in a coffee table, right? I'm going to do it anyway. I just have to figure out how to light it. I am hoping that you folks have some creative ideas. I'm putting this in the general forum instead of the N scale forum because creative layout lighting applies to all scales.

-Florida RR-


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

My first thought is lights up in the corners. They won't interfere with viewing the setup, and the shadows may cancel each other. I would use a dimmable light so intensity is controlled. A corner triangle above, right up on the glass, will hide the light and maybe a frosted lens cover of some sort will soften the whole effect.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Lighting*

FloridaRR;

LEDs are definitely the way to go. I once built a coffee table layout and lit the interior with
one of those small, under the cabinet, florescent tube fixtures. Even that gave off too much heat for the small, closed space. Incandescent lights would be out of the question, for the same reason, heat.
So you're left with LED lighting which produces almost no heat at all.
Now it's a matter of hiding the LEDs. Does the table have a wood frame around the top? LEDs
could be placed under such a frame so that they wouldn't be obvious from above. If there's 
no top frame, only glass, I guess the next best thing would be making some sort of small, unobtrusive enclosure for each LED, or strip of LEDs. Make sure you are using the
"super bright", surface mount, type of LED. This is normally what is used in the strips.
I have recently switched my layout from florescent lights to LEDs and I like the result.
The layout is not in a coffee table but is a bookshelf type, with a shelf above the layout sections, and (eventually) Plexiglas in front. It therefore will be enclosed, and share the overheating concerns with your enclosed design. LEDs eliminate the concern. Strips are a good idea. My local train store now use them to light their display shelves. Looks great and saves electricity. Below is a photo of the "Cedar Falls" section of my layout. You can see
the valence, at the top, which hides the LEDs.

Hope that helps you. Post a photo when you can.

Traction Fan


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I think there is no doubt about the fact that it has to be LED lighting. 20 years ago, that wasn't an option and I would have opted for overhead track lighting in the room instead. I suppose that's still an option, but track lights above the couch shining on the coffee table isn't my first choice. I also think now that dimmable LEDs are a must. There is no way to tell exactly how bright it will need to be based on changing room light levels. So, some basic decisions have to be made, and that means dimmable LEDs.

I am very familiar with LED lighting fortunately. I have been using intense LED lighting on my reef aquarium for over a year. I just got a new light that I imported directly from Hong Kong last week. Saltwater aquariums are one of my other (expensive) hobbies. I have spent $500 on new SCL and CofG locomotives in 4 weeks. Sigh. 

I know that the light is going to have to be warm white with a good color spectrum. Pure white LEDs have no color rendering ability, and they look terrible for anything but flashlights. So that is another decision that has been made by necessity.

Tonight I did a simple experiment with my existing glass top coffee table, which is open on the sides, but I dimmed the room lights to reduce light coming in from the sides. I suspended a yard stick 4.5" below the glass, added a piece of flextrack, and looked at it. I couldn't see a thing. What little light there was in the room simply refelected off the glass. Hmmmmm. So I got a 100 watt equivalent fluorescent table lamp and propped it up at a downward angle on one side at glass level. This showed me that the light is going to need to be very bright to get the job done.

At this point, I am thinking that full length LED strip lights along all four edges are going to be the only real option. I'm not sure how to shield them from the eyes though without big ugly shades of some sort. It's not too late for me to tweak the table design since my cabinetmaker hasn't begun yet, but I don't want to make changes that might not work. Two of the sketches that we are working from are attached. Also attached are pics of two tables that were the inspirations. One is open on the sides, which is not an option for me, but it illustrates exactly how the 2x2 frame will be made and how the glass will sit on it. The other table shows the problems with a similar layout in a drawer. You can see that when the room light gets bright enough to see down inside the table, there is a lot of glare and the living room would have to be very bright at all times. That's not going to work well for me. Finally, a pic with the suspended train and the 100 watt equivalent fluorescent light is attached. 

This is proving to be more challenging than the table itself. I am wondering if I can also figure out a way to hide ground level lights in the scenery facing outward on the passing trains without it looking like spotlights with train shadows. Some street lights will be installed in the center, but not enough to illuminate anything but the very center of the layout.

-Florida RR-


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Hiding LEDs*

FloridaRR;

First let me compliment you on the light colored wood coffee table layout in the photo. It looks great! 
If the table that will house your new layout is not done yet, you can have the frame built to hide the LED strips.
I don't know if you are familiar with the term "L Girder" or not. It was originally a system of benchwork for more traditionally shaped/sized layouts, than yours, or mine.The basic idea was to screw,and glue, two boards together to form a wooden version of the common metal, "angle iron."
This makes a very strong structural element; but for your layout, it is also a good place to hide LED strips. Please look again at the photo of my "Cedar Falls" layout section. At the top left portion, you will see an angle formed of wood. The inside part of this angle is where I hide my LEDs. If you look carefully you can see a red and a black wire hanging down. The red wire hangs down slightly into the top of the Great Northern Railway herald on the paneled garage door behind.
The red wire blends in pretty well with the reddish color paneling; but you can see it. What you can't see is the LED fixture that these wires power. (The wires would normally be tucked up out of sight.)
If you can have the cabinet made with a top frame of wooden angles, instead of solid 2x2 lumber, you could mount your LEDs there. They would not be easy to see without crawling on the floor, yet should provide the light you want. If you want to hide the LED strips even further, a second wood piece could hang down,
with small holes in the proper places to match the LED spacing on the strip. The attached photo shows a wooden, four-sided, "box girder" with a core of styrofoam. Omit the styrofoam, and install an LED strip instead. Except for the holes needed for light to shine out, the LEDs and wiring would be completely concealed!
BTW. If I did this, I would have the edges of each hole painted black. I think it would look classy, and when the LEDs were not lit, the holes would look like trim. 

Traction Fan


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

The table is not built yet. My cabinetmaker will be starting soon though. The pictures I posted previously are two tables that gave me ideas. The drawings are my actual plans. It is being made from maple, and I will put a light stain on it. My design has the added advantage of 4 storage/electronics drawers underneath the layout. It was a costly but necessary addition to hold my hobby stuff in my small apartment. The completely removable layout drawer will be nice because I can continue to use the table even if I am working on the layout. I don't ever have to remove the glass.

It is possible to put an "L" molding containing LED strips on the two long sides of the table just underneath the glass. This may be my only option. My concern with that approach is the dispersion angle of the light. I don't want to end up with two brightly lighted edges with no light spreading to the middle. Remember, I only have 4.5 inches of vertical distance between the LED strips and the surface of the layout. I can put some street lights in the middle areas. but some of it is going to be farm land/open field.

In order to get a better spread of the light, I am contemplating some sort of trim that would shield the LEDs from the eyes like an L would, but angled in slightly toward the center of the layout like the attached pic. I thought about having grooves cut directly into the 2x2 top of the table, but I don't want to do that in case it doesn't work well. I suppose I should stick with removable options in case I need to try several times before getting it right. I wish I had the time and money to build a quick prototype from cheap pine and a few LED strips, but I don't think that's going to happen. Maybe that's the answer - make time and slap together a test. I wonder where I can get 4' warm white LED strips cheap and quick? Probably a flexible roll that can be cut to length. I'll browse Amazon. I have Prime shipping.

-Florida RR-


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*LED source and mounting method*



Florida RR said:


> The table is not built yet. My cabinetmaker will be starting soon though. The pictures I posted previously are two tables that gave me ideas. The drawings are my actual plans. It is being made from maple, and I will put a light stain on it. My design has the added advantage of 4 storage/electronics drawers underneath the layout. It was a costly but necessary addition to hold my hobby stuff in my small apartment. The completely removable layout drawer will be nice because I can continue to use the table even if I am working on the layout. I don't ever have to remove the glass.
> 
> It is possible to put an "L" molding containing LED strips on the two long sides of the table just underneath the glass. This may be my only option. My concern with that approach is the dispersion angle of the light. I don't want to end up with two brightly lighted edges with no light spreading to the middle. Remember, I only have 4.5 inches of vertical distance between the LED strips and the surface of the layout. I can put some street lights in the middle areas. but some of it is going to be farm land/open field.
> 
> ...


 I agree with you about the desirability of testing with a mock up. It works for the auto and aircraft industries, and many others;
including some Model Railroaders. My layout was originally designed to be shoe-horned into the space under a staircase, in a small condo.
Given the amount of money you're investing in a custom table, and the permanence of the table when built, it seems like a wise precaution.
A good source for LEDs, and any other electronic part you need, is www.allelectronics.com. They have LEDs and strips in several colors.
I don't know if they will have the particular color you want, but it's worth a look. I used the LED circuit boards
from inside a 14" LED ceiling light from Costco. My daylight is plain white, from unaltered
LEDs. I'm happy with that, but apparently you prefer some other shade. I did stain 1/2 of
the LEDs blue, to represent night. Again, it looks great to me. If you can't find the color you want perhaps you can get it through staining?
Your idea about aiming the LEDs at a 45 degree angle is what I ended up doing with mine. The circuit boards are mounted on 45 degree aluminum angle,
with shinny refrigerator tape behind, to act as a reflector. I tried running the LED boards on 12vdc.wired in parallel. Bad idea!
There are enough circuit boards on the layout to overwhelm the power supply. I ended up not trying to re-invent the wheel, 
and used the 50vac drivers that came with the ceiling light fixture. I kept the number of boards driven by each of the drivers,
to four; same as in the original light fixture. Surprise, surprise; the engineer who designed the light, knew more than I did!  Duh!
This arrangement works well on my layout, but we have different geometries to deal with. Most of my sections are 16" deep and 16" high. The bright white, and blue lights illuminate the whole section to my satisfaction. However, weather that will hold true at only 4" of height, is another matter. Guess that's a good reason to try that mock up.

Good Luck

Traction Fan


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I spent all night building a full scale mock up underneath my existing bamboo glass top coffee table. Someone discarded a cardboard box that contained a brand new couch today, and when I saw those giant pieces of cardboard, realizing how easy it would be to work with, I knew that I could build a mock up with it. I put a cardboard bottom and my test oval of track 4.5" under the glass using tape and styrofoam to suspend it. Then I cut and taped cardboard sides on all four sides to simulate the layout drawer. I can see about 2 minutes after completion that the big problem is reflections on the glass. I'll investigate further tomorrow. I will ask a glass expert if there is some available anti-reflective coating that is durable enough for a coffee table. I also have immediately realized that track lighting on the ceiling from behind the couch may be the only way to stop the glare if no anti-reflective coating is available. 

I now have a way to test different lighting options before making anything permanent. I found a 16 foot roll of LED strip lighting in 3000k warm white with a dimmer and power supply on Amazon for roughly $30. I'll go ahead and order it tomorrow I guess for experimentation. Compared to the cost and permanence of table, a few evenings of my time and $100 worth of fiddling is worth it. If I can come up with a profile for wooden molding to hold the light strips, my cabinetmaker can make a test sample for me before I make any major decisions. 

The only reason I know about LED color temperature and spectrum is because I have a saltwater aquarium that requires high output LED lighting, and I also have a sasquatch-blinding LED flashlight for deep woods camping. The 3000k warm white LEDs have a yellow appearance that would not support aquarium life, which requires daylight 12,000k and blue, violet, and UV. Everything looks blueish, which is what things look like 50' under water. However, a flashlight with that color temperature looks terrible and has almost zero ability to render color. So, my deep woods flashlight is in the 3000k range. It shows color pretty well, but the light is yellowish. When dimmed, I think it will make an ideal soft light. 

The question now is how far across the layout light from LED strips will spread when mounted at a 45 degree angle only 4" above the layout surface. That will require a physical installation to test. If it doesn't work, then I think I am left with track lighting above the sofa shining into the table combined with any street lights and building lights that I can squeeze into the layout itself.

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow. Bed time. 

-Florida RR-


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Scotch tint*



Florida RR said:


> I spent all night building a full scale mock up underneath my existing bamboo glass top coffee table. Someone discarded a cardboard box that contained a brand new couch today, and when I saw those giant pieces of cardboard, realizing how easy it would be to work with, I knew that I could build a mock up with it. I put a cardboard bottom and my test oval of track 4.5" under the glass using tape and styrofoam to suspend it. Then I cut and taped cardboard sides on all four sides to simulate the layout drawer. I can see about 2 minutes after completion that the big problem is reflections on the glass. I'll investigate further tomorrow. I will ask a glass expert if there is some available anti-reflective coating that is durable enough for a coffee table. I also have immediately realized that track lighting on the ceiling from behind the couch may be the only way to stop the glare if no anti-reflective coating is available.
> 
> I now have a way to test different lighting options before making anything permanent. I found a 16 foot roll of LED strip lighting in 3000k warm white with a dimmer and power supply on Amazon for roughly $30. I'll go ahead and order it tomorrow I guess for experimentation. Compared to the cost and permanence of table, a few evenings of my time and $100 worth of fiddling is worth it. If I can come up with a profile for wooden molding to hold the light strips, my cabinetmaker can make a test sample for me before I make any major decisions.
> 
> ...


 One type of reflective glass is any glass with 3M scotch Tint coating. Cancel that suggestion! I no sooner typed it than I realized it would not work in your setup. The tint is normally applied to the INSIDE of a window. In your application, that would put it on the top of your table, and that won't work.

Traction fan :smilie_daumenneg:


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

It sounds like you are on the right track, experimenting and testing. Include reflective foil or mirror on the sides to bounce light across your layout. Plastic mirror tiles are easy to cut, and the ones with decoration may blend in and not show obvious reflections of the scene.


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

After some more fiddling with cardboard and tape I now have an ideal lighting test setup, and a place to run a train temporarily while I wait for the new table.  

In the picture you can see that the biggest problem is reflections from room lighting. There are only a few ways around that that I can think of: 1) Turn off all of the room lights, 2) Relocate the room lights, or 3) Find anti-reflective glass. Other suggestions are welcome.

There is anti-reflective glass available. It is used in TV studios, control rooms, museums, and other commercial applications where glare simply is not an option. I haven't priced it yet, but I have read that it costs up to ten times as much as plain glass. Plain glass is already going to cost me $200, so I don't think anti-reflective glass will be an option.

With anti-reflective glass being an unlikely solution, that leaves turning off and/or relocating the room lights. This brings me back to the option of track lighting shining down from behind the couch so as not to cause reflections on the glass. I don't like this option, but it is possible.

I am hoping that some combination of turning off and/or moving the room lights while providing some light from the inside will eventually lead to a suitable compromise. I wish the bamboo cross pieces weren't in this old table, but they won't interfere with my testing over the next few weeks. I don't know why I didn't think of putting a false bottom in it like this a few weeks ago. It's perfect for testing.

The LED strips (a 16 foot roll), a dimmer, and a power supply will arrive from Amazon tomorrow. This will be an interesting experiment.

-Florida RR-


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

If anyone wants to see my proposed N scale track plan and help me improve it, then click here.

Whenever I actually get started (or have I started already?) I'll put links to all of this different stuff in one thread for reference.

-Florida RR-


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Track plan*



Florida RR said:


> If anyone wants to see my proposed N scale track plan and help me improve it, then click here.
> 
> Whenever I actually get started (or have I started already?) I'll put links to all of this different stuff in one thread for reference.
> 
> -Florida RR-


 You might try a figure 8 plan with a crossing instead of a grade separated overpass. The advantage here is that the crossing could be a crossing of two different railroads. If you can fit in a tight curve that allows trains to move from one railroad's track to the other, you have created an interchange between the two railroads.This arrangement was once very common, wherever the track of one Co. crossed another. These crossings were typically "interlockings." For safety, the turnouts and crossing would be physically interlocked to prevent two trains colliding. I know that you plan to run trains continuously, and doing so through a crossing may seem crazy. However it can be done if automatic control is used. This would call for some electronics, but there are ready made products available, if you don't like making your own. This is a perfect excuse for some operating signals. They are real eye catchers on a model, and real interlockings had them.
This would look more like the operations of real railroads than just running two trains in a circle. It would also be more entertaining for guests. There is no reason you could not have a double tracked crossing. They were common enough in the real world. Or you could keep one outside loop, with the figure 8 inside. 

Good luck 
Traction Fan


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

A track with an interlock is an interesting idea. It would require considerable electronics though. My stuff is all DC and not DCC so I would have to deal with actually switching track current on and off.

The LED strip lighting along the edges of the test layout is a failure, unfortunately. It looks like what it is - strip lights shining on top of the train because it is just a few inches above. It also does not shed any light at all on the sides of the train so the letters are unreadable. I have the strips angled at a 45 degree angle, and that still only lights the layout about 3-4" inward. The real problem is that it only illuminates the top of the trains.

So this leaves me with two options I guess. 1) Room lighting from the ceiling above and behind the table, which will result in the layout being viewable only from the couch due to glare on the glass, and 2) Lighting directly on the layout itself. I think #2 is the only real option at this point. I need to figure out a way to make some wide angle flood lights that can be hidden in berms along the tracks facing the trains and covered with bushes or something along these lines. Shanties and things along the tracks also may be useful sources of light, but really I need to look at burying permanent lighting inside the terrain shining outward toward the edges. I think this is the only way it is going to work. It's time to get creative and experiment I suppose. I need to find some LEDs online that I can start soldering together and experimenting with, inside little berms made of styrofoam. It might even work if I don't even apologize for or try to hide the lights. We see undisguised flood lights outside buildings and in night landscapes all the time. Maybe I could make some sort of little rectangular LED fixtures that would give that sort of landscape lighting impression.

I did go to our best local glass shop today to ask about anti-reflective/anti-glare glass that might be suitable for a table top. The answer was a very clear, "No" almost as if they had been asked the question before. Apparently that type of glass is only available in thin sheets suitable for framing pictures and making TV screens and cell phones and things like that. It also is used in applications like farm and construction equipment, but only by an equipment manufacturer working directly with a glass manufacturer to make glass for a specific piece of equipment.

Back to the drawing board. Sigh. At least I have ruled out two options - different glass, and LED strips along the edges.

-Florida RR-


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## PanelDeland (Oct 3, 2015)

Here's a thought. Apply reflective window tint to the glass. As light of tint as you can get with mirror effect towards the layout.That should kill the glare and will disperse the light. You may kill two birds with one stone.... er window tint.

The other option that might be feasible is to check into RGB lighting. I know nothing about it beyond the fact that it is very adjustable, for color etc.


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

Stop by a store that sells jewelry and check out the lighting. For most displays bright halogen is used to make the gems sparkle, but the location and aim of the lights is what I'm talking about. I remember the lights being overhead, but some may have been inside the display.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*window tint*



PanelDeland said:


> Here's a thought. Apply reflective window tint to the glass. As light of tint as you can get with mirror effect towards the layout.That should kill the glare and will disperse the light. You may kill two birds with one stone.... er window tint.
> 
> The other option that might be feasible is to check into RGB lighting. I know nothing about it beyond the fact that it is very adjustable, for color etc.


Paneldeland;

I thought of the same thing and posted it earlier in this thread. As I was typing it, I realized that it would not be suitable for Floridarailroad's table layout, and said so in the same post. 
Window tinting, is applied to the INSIDE of a window. This reflects some of the sunlight back
outside, keeping the room cooler. He wants to reflect light inward to light his layout. To do that, window tinting would have to be applied to the top of the table; where it would be destroyed by normal use of the table's top surface.

Good idea though. But it won't work in this particular application;

Traction Fan


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Hallogen lights*



mikek said:


> Stop by a store that sells jewelry and check out the lighting. For most displays bright halogen is used to make the gems sparkle, but the location and aim of the lights is what I'm talking about. I remember the lights being overhead, but some may have been inside the display.


 Mikek; Halogen lights create lots of light, but also lots,and lots of heat. I don't think that will work in floridarailroad's enclosed space. Might cause a fire. However the idea of copping store lighting is a good suggestion.

Traction Fan


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Lights inside the table*

Florida railroad;

Sounds like you're having nothing but bad luck! Sorry to hear that the LED strip didn't work.
One possibility, occurred to me when I saw your photo, and comment, on the bamboo framing strips across the inner area of the glass. I'll run it by you and see if you even want to try it.
What if, some frame cross pieces did show in the middle area. Not ugly, but classy, to match the rest of the wood in the table? Going back to the LEDs inside the frame idea, These crosspieces could help light the interior while LEDs in the outer rectangular frame lit the edges.
I've seen layouts with two sided backdrops used as dividers between scenes. This might alleviate the "round and round the circle" look and give the impression that the train is actually traveling from one place to another. The top edge of these backdrops would be the wood finished crosspieces, containing lighting to shine on both sides. Physically dividing the layout might also help improve the angle for the lights as, while still only 4" up, they would have less depth to illuminate in these smaller scenes. 
Your idea about lights concealed in the shrubbery,sounds good. I think you will need all the interior lighting you can muster, and from as many angles as possible. Experimenting with your mock ups will show you what works best. Only you can decide if any of our suggestions will find a place on your railroad.
As for the electronics for the crossing, it doesn't have to be complicated. It could be a simple timer, working like a traffic light at a street crossing. The timer would only energize one "stopping section", of track, approaching the crossing, at a time. That could wait until the lighting problem is solved though.

Good Luck

Traction Fan


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

To wrap up the anti-glare and anti-reflective results:

There are two types of film. In a car, it goes on the inside, and it reflects some light to keep it out of the car. Reflecting light back into my layout would be good to keep it there and diffuse it, but to do that, this type of film would have to go on the top (exterior) of the table to reflect light back inside. It's not durable enough for that.

The other type of film is used in architecture to cut glare and reflections. It operates by diffusing light that reflects off the glass. It goes on the side of the glass that has the problem, which in my case again is the top (exterior) of the table. Again, it's not durable enough for that.

Anti-reflective glass is not an option for the reasons outlined in prior posts.

So that is all there is for anti-reflective and anti-glare glass and films/coatings.

The only option therefore is to adjust the room lighting. I have found a lot of articles online about glare and reflections in people's home theater setups, where it obviously can ruin a movie. Diffuse light is one answer. I have floor lamps that shine upward and bounce off the ceiling because I have had my current glass top coffee table for many years, and the floor lamps do help because the light is so diffuse by the time it bounces off the ceiling. Still, the TV reflects directly off the coffee table when sitting on the couch, and there simply is nothing that can be done about that without turning off the TV, which isn't going to happen.  During the day, light reflects from the sliding glass door, and the only solution is to wait for dark or close the shades. Other than that, keeping lights behind you, like overhead track lighting shining down from behind you, is the only way to get light onto a shiny glass surface and still be able to see through it without a reflection of the light and glare from it. Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection.

-Florida RR-


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I have been doing some more experiments with lighting inside the test layout under the glass, all but one with poor results. It only takes one though. 

First, I made a berm out of foam. I hollowed it out and stuffed in three LEDs. The berm looks fine, and it could be hidden pretty easily. The problem is that is causes really bad shadows when a train goes by. Even using a piece of masking tape over the LEDs to diffuse the light didn't do much to solve the shadow problem. A small berm with LEDs in it is always going to act like a spotlight (point source). So that went poorly. It would be a good idea to light a structure though.

The only way to get LEDs to quit acting like a point source is to use a continuous strip of them, which makes it similar to a fluorescent light tube. So I went back to the idea of using full length strip LEDs. After a variety of failures including L and U strips pointing down, which just blasted the train below with unnatural light and left everything else dark, I tried LED strip lighting all the way across the layout from the opposite side. Taping the LED strips to the side of the table facing directly across the layout does illuminate the side of the train well on the opposite side of the layout and with no real shadows. It also throws a nasty light directly down on top of trains underneath the strip. So I made an L channel of cardboard to shield the trains below. That works well both directly below the LED strip and also on the other side of the layout to gently illuminate the sides of trains there. Now we have the big problem with this arrangement, which is how to keep that strip from shining in your eyes when you sit on the couch. This required experimentation and some math. My fingers are sore from dozens and dozens of pieces of tape sticking to them for 3 days and also from cutting dozens of strips of cardboard. A U strip didn't work. It takes more than just a U-shaped fixture.

Using tape and cardboard, I made a strip light fixture with the profile shown at the top of the attached picture, and I installed it in my test layout. Call it a "C" channel I guess. It works as well as can be expected I think. A coffee table layout is going to require compromises, and that includes not being able to provide perfectly natural lighting. This profile does throw just enough light across the layout to make writing on a train on the other side readable without a lot of nasty shadows. It also doesn't blast light down on the trains below. It also does not blast your eyes with light when sitting on the couch. In fact, it's not even noticeable. It does leave a brighter area about 1/3 across the layout, so objects placed there are going to get more light, and I'll have to be careful what I put there. Some dark landscaping to absorb the light in that area can help break it up, combined with some lighting fixtures like street lights and building lights to provide a boost of light in the dead center of the layout.

So I think I have my answer, after plenty of tape and cardboard and sore fingers. Next I have to address how to fit this into the table before my cabinetmaker begins, which should be soon. I could make separate light fixtures and stick them to the sides of the table inside, but that's probably not going to be too attractive. It would work if push comes to shove though. I will consult with my cabinetmaker to see if he can cut grooves into the top frame. They would be the profile shown at the bottom of the attached pic. It should be fairly easy for him to cut a 5/16" notch and then angle the bottom with a router bit. Gluing in a square wood strip would complete the "C" at the top to shield the top part of the LED strip. This C is more important than you might think. The test that I did with the LEDs angled down at 45 degrees failed to throw enough light to the other side of the layout. I was shocked. It was a failure. However, if the LED strip is aimed directly across the layout, the maximum light is directed there, and it falls off in intensity underneath the strip due to being at an angle below the LED strip. The dimmer helps me match room lighting to match the room light. During the day, the minimum brightness works OK. When I turn the lights out tonight, about 50% seems to work well. 

Tomorrow I'll go to Homer's Despot and get a cheap (and soft) fir 2x2 to make a wood test piece. I'm good enough with my hands and a coping saw to make a 3-4" test piece to hold three LEDs. Once I get a profile that works ok, I'll take the sample to my cabinetmaker to see if he can make me a 4 foot test piece before we go further. I don't see any reason why this lighting can't be set directly into the top frame of the table. If it can, I think I have the best answer I could have hoped for. Perfect? No. A decent compromise? Yes.

Stay tuned. 

-Florida RR-


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I wonder if a plastic 'matte' type lens over your LED strip lights would
diffuse the light more effectively? I know the term matte is not
truly appropriate but I can't think of the term for plastic sheets that is
not clear.

While checking Home Depot you might see if they have any such type
of plastic.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

How about "frosted" or "opaque"?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

CTValleyRR said:


> How about "frosted" or "opaque"?


Exactly. Senior moments are getting longer and longer.

Don


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

The only way to get LEDs to quit acting like a point source spot light is to use a continuous strip of them, which makes it similar to a fluorescent light tube, or to bounce the light off something else. I'm doing a bit of both in my design. Opaque covering didn't work on the 3 LEDs in the foam berm that I made. It still acts as a point source casting bad shadows. It will work well if I need to shine a spot light on an object, but not for general lighting.

I went (in the rain, sigh) to Homer's Despot today, and a fir 2x2 (1.5x1.5" actual) cost me a whopping $1.77. I used a coping saw and a chisel to make a 4" long test piece. Pics are attached. It works remarkably well. I just emailed my cabinetmaker to see if he can make me a full-length test piece before he begins building the table. It's a 3/8" groove that would be cut with a router or a dado blade on one pass and then angled at the bottom on a second pass. The little "shade piece" to form the C part of the groove is a separate piece. I used some scrap balsa for that part today.

The full-length cardboard strip that I made with this same profile last night works great. I like it more and more as I use it. It will be even better when I have both sides done. For my test, one side is enough. The darker it got last night, the brighter I turned up the LED strip using the dimmer. At max it is as bright as day and actually lights the room a little if you want to take it to an extreme. A dim sunset-like setting seems to give the best appearance. The color rendering of the LEDs is good. Colors look fairly natural, which can be a real problem with LED lights. 

I paid only $30 for 16 feet of LEDs, a 2 amp 12 volt "wall wart" LED power supply, and a dial dimmer, from HitLights on Amazon. If you haven't ever used LED strip lighting, it's easy. Every three LEDs there is a mark where you can cut. Just cut the length that you need. Again, I emphasize color rendering. These 3000k LEDs look fairly natural. They actually could be a little more yellowish in my opinion, but they work fine. The higher you go, to 4000k, 6500k, and so on, the more bluish and greenish your light appears. It can look artificial at that point. Tri-color RGB LEDs are not the answer unless you are specifically trying to produce a special color of light such as sunset orange. For ordinary daylight, a single color in the proper color temperature is the answer. Please feel free to post if you have questions about the LED strips.

This solution is working remarkably well with my cardboard test strip. Now I wait to hear from my cabinetmaker. It will be great to have these lighting grooves cut directly into the table itself instead of an "add on" solution.

-Florida RR-


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