# Switches



## 05Slowbalt (Dec 19, 2011)

Okay I have already bought 8 number 6 Electrofrog Peco switches. I now know these are not the greatest to use for DCC. I followed everything to do for DCC like cut the one wire underneath and solder another wire between the rails and use insolaters. But as the photo I am including the engine stops working at this point. How do I fix it? Oh I forgot I am planing on using ground throws for now.


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## boxoftj (Mar 15, 2013)

The train stops? Stutters or stops? The picture is hard to see for me, so it's hard to really understand your problem here...


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## 05Slowbalt (Dec 19, 2011)

Alright when the engine wheels hit where the electrolfrog the engne dies. The large engines will make it through because of the momentum but the sounds cuts out. I followed the directions that came with the Peco to make it DCC friendly. How do I stop the engine for dieing in this tiny spot.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I couldn't see the wiring in the pic either.

However, the problem is that the Electrofrog
must be powered else you have a dead spot
as your loco is telling you.

Further, it must have polarity match that of the
route it is set for. This requires a single pole double
throw switch (SPDT). These turnouts are often 
thrown using a Tortoise motor which has the required
switch built in. 

To test what you have at the moment, use your multimeter
set to AC volts and have one probe on the frog and one probe
on the other rail. Operate the hand throw. Did you get a reading?
Most likely not. The wiring under the turnout that you changed
is the reason. 

The way to restore power:

Connect the Frog to center tab on the switch.
Connect wire from frog inward straight rail to one end tab.
Connect wire from frog inward curve rail to other tab.

You will need to keep the insulated joiners on both frog
rails.

You will have to throw the electric switch every time
you use the hand throw. Best suggestion: Install
a Tortoise turnout motor with the frogs wired to their
switches.

Or, see if you can trade the Electrofrogs for Insulfrogs.
You won't have this problem with them.

Don


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## boxoftj (Mar 15, 2013)

Yes, follow those test procedures. Also, if you need a ground throw that also has a simple spdt switch, caboose industries make a ground throw that can change polarity in the frog for pretty cheap. I used them before I started making my own turnouts and using servos to throw.


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## 05Slowbalt (Dec 19, 2011)

Okay what if I put a cut into the rails where the yellow line is or at the bottom of the V in the frog. And they where the green is I will put power drops. Do you think this will work?


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## boxoftj (Mar 15, 2013)

If I understand you correctly, you should cut where the yellow line is AND on the wing rails right below the point of the frog. This pic is essentially the ideal dcc-friendly turnout. Without powering the frog, you want to keep the isolated part of the frog as short as possible, so the wheels pass through a minimal un-powered section


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Boxoftj

Is it true that those wing rails are powered through the points
against the stationary rails. If so, then it seems to me they
would be the correct 'polarity' for whichever route is selected.

I use Insulfrog so I don't have the problem and don't know
the wiring of the Electrofrog.

It does look like gapping the rails where yellow lines are along
with new drops on both diverging rails might help the
situation. Shame to whack up a beautiful turnout though.

Don


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## boxoftj (Mar 15, 2013)

Don, 
I guess it depends on the turnout. I don't have any experience with Peco but i know with my scratchbuilt turnouts, the points and closure rails are connected via PCB boards as well as making contact with the stock rails. 
If on the Peco, if the only time the closure and points get power is when they make contact with the stock rail, then your theory could work. However, if the points get power anywhere else, there will be a short when the wheel gets to the frog, and it will have to be gapped before the wing rails too. there are ways, especially when/if you weather the track, to hide the gaps. I use .30" styrene strips, then sand to form to the rail. after a good weathering, you can't even tell there's a gap unless you look super close and notice the diffence in color on the top of the rail


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

One more off the wall idea to solve your problem:

My Peco Insulfrog turnout 'internal' wiring is visible
when turned upside down. I assume (and you know about that )
that the Peco Electrofrog 'internal' wiring is also
visible.

If so, perhaps making a shunt between each point and the frog
would power it with matching polarity. That assumes that
both points are not powered at the same time. Insulators would
still be required on both rails exiting the frog. 

Don


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## boxoftj (Mar 15, 2013)

That's totally possible. Also, since he's stated he wants to use ground throws, the caboose industries have a model ground throw with an internal single-pole double-throw, so you don't have to do any fancy wiring/shunting that may look un-prototypical. 
http://www.trainworldonline.com/cat...ound-Throw-w-Contacts-for-ATL-C55-Sprung-224s

it's the wrong scale but it was the first product i found to kind of illustrate what i'm talking about.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You are right Boxoftj, he ground throws with frog power control
would be the least expensive and easiest
solution to the problem.

Don


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