# The virginian railway ( vgn )



## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

Building the VGN from Scratch,

The Virginian Railway is 442 Miles Long and I wanted to Imitate it as Much as Possible.
As the Real H0scale Length would have Required 5 Miles of H0scale Flexi-track, I needed to Shorten the Distances between the 44 Towns so the Scale Length would be a Tenth of the Length to be 2700 Feet.
Here is the First CAD Drawing to get in Perspective:-










After Getting the Results from Google Earth and Jotting down the Distances and Elevations:-

VGN Place Elevation (ft) Distance (mi) Corner (1-4) Lap (1-13)
0-Coal Loader 0 0 1 0
1-Lamberts Point 9
2-Goff St Junction 10 
3-Dexter Street 10 8 2
4-Suffolk 43 23.5 3 1
5-Jarratt 151 73.7 4 2
6-Alberta 385 97.9 1 3
7-Virso 583 133.6 2 4
8-Altravista 550 199.2 3 5
9-Roanoke City 926 243.1 4 7
10-Salem 1020 1
11-Wabun 1138 2
12-Christiansburg 2100 3 
13-Pepper 1771 4
14-Whitethorne 1741 1
15-Pembroke 1632 2
16-Narrows 1600 313 3 9
17-Glen Lyn 1581 4
18-Oakvale 1747 1
19-Rocky Hollow 2249 2
20-Princeton 2400 345 3 10
21-Mercer 2391 4
22-Kegley 2334 4
23-Rock 2300 1
24-Giatto 2455 1
25-Covel 1962 2
26-Alpoca 1571 2
27-Elmore Junction 1400 3
28-Mullens 1506 385 3  11
29-Otsego 1556 4
30-Maben 1605 4
31-Hotchkiss 1693 4
32-Slab Fork 1892 1
33-Lester 2031 1
34-Surveyor 1942 1
35-Eccles 2082 410 2 12
36-Cirtsville 1661 2
37-Lively 1606 2
38-Oak Hill Jc 1890 429 3
39-Lick Fork 1548 3
40-Hamilton 1268 3
41-Page 1131 4
42-Robson 879 4
43-Deepwater 670 446 4 13
44-Alloy 665 447

I Place Marked the CAD Drawing and needed to do some Adjustments, so here is the Altered State:-


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm a little confused, what's the point of the concentric tracks? Seems pretty boring to me, but maybe that's just me.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What part of your plan is West Virginia?


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

*Vgn*

This is my Layout Design, all 13 Layers of it.
I am Modeling the VGN in H0scale from the Beginning in 1909 to 1939.
Imagine the Center of the Layout Picture is the Top of the Mountain where Deepwater is and the curved Tracks are at Incline going in and out of the Mountain Valley curves of West Virginia.
Because the Tracks are basically going around the Valley curves in Real Life, I decided to have All the Tracks do the Same Shape.
The Town Narrows VA has Track following the curves of a River and is Included in that Area.
West Virginia Starts after Glen Lyn in the Mountain Curves in Real Life but the Curved Mountain Area is My West Virginia.
Like wise the straight Tracks represent the Flats of Virginia back to Norfolk Virginia (Lambert's Point).
The Reason for the Concentric Curves is to Get 2700 Feet of Track into the Train Room and to have the Towns in a Group,
the Bridges in together so the Water of the River can Flow beneath them etc.
Each Layer (lap) is 10 Inches Higher than the Previous Layer except where the Elevation changes to Incline/Decline.
This is One Big Mountain that Will have Passing Terminals at the Major Towns so the Trains with 100 cars can wait for the Oncoming Haul.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh ... I didn't realize you had that much elevation change between each lap. That certainly adds to the overall visual appeal.

That's a steep across-the-track incline, though. You might want to map this all out with a 3D CAD package to visualize the full topagraphy and terrain.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

Sorry TJ - I should have Mentioned the Room/Layout Size as Being 38 Feet x 44 Feet, so the Incline Rate at the Steepest Area would be 1 inch rise every 200 inches.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah, but what about the topography rise perpendicular to the track ... across each grouping of 5 or 6 nested loops? Judging from the "bird's eye view" proximity of track in your drawing layout, that across-the-grain slope (to achieve a 10" height delta between each lap) will be incredibly steep ... right? If each lap rises 10", then a "cluster" of 5 or 6 laps must rist 50" or 60" within the footprint of that "bird's eye" cluster of 5 or 6 parallel tracks. That's a near-vertical 5-foot slope!

I'm not being critical of this ... I'm just trying to visualize the big picture, and make sure that you see that, too.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

I See Good Man TJ, Mountains are Steep and the Mountain Incline would be about 60 Degrees where the Tracks are.

Here is an Image of a Typical West Virginian Mountain Range:-










If You look to the Right of the Picture where the Valley is, this is where the Railway curves in and around.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Now *that's* an ambitious plan, Giants... 

...and it's a point to point, too. That adds much more realism, because if anyone has noticed, real railroads don't go in a circle. :laugh: 

You might consider a turntable at each terminus with two legs of a switch connecting to it, so that you can turn your locomotives around and run them around to connect to the other end of the cars so that you can go the opposite direction.

Greg


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

Ty Greg for bring the Turntable to My Attention and for the Return Idea's,
Yes there was a Turntable at each End and Have Just Noticed one Missing
The Center Track Spacing's Will be 4 inch for the Straights as this Area has less Elevation and 6 inch Spacing's for the Mountain Ranges.
This has been Years in the Making and as You All know, having a Cad Program help's.
Also there will be 10 Hauls running on the Layout at any one Time. ( The VGN had 10 Virginians )
I have Acquired Plc's to do the Switching of Turnouts and Sensors on Haul Arrivals, so Hauls in Two Directions can Pass. 

Thank-you TJ for Helping with the Mountain.
Here is the Revised CAD Drawing to get the 6 inch Track Spacing's for the Mountain and added Turntables:-










Lambert's Point in Norfolk had a Return Loop so I have to put it in.
Always Adding to this Layout Drawing.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dave.....you have been planning this for what, 5 years?


How long do you think it will be before it is all done?

That is one heck of a layout you have planned.:thumbsup:

You got the shed up, right?

West Virginia does have some hills! 
I am glad I don't go though the Hill Billy state anymore.


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

*Vgn*

YES, Give Me 1 More Year, YES, YES and YES King Edward and Well Done on Your 5000th Post.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Giants said:


> YES, Give Me 1 More Year, YES, YES and YES King Edward and Well Done on Your 5000th Post.



All hot air.:laugh:

You going to give me one of your brass big boys for my 5000th?:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I get it, it's a mountain! I missed that before and it makes a lot more sense that way.  I didn't realize there was an incline on those tracks.


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

Now as You may have seen, I am Doing the VGN Railway between 1909 to 1939.
So here are some Points I used to Determine My Layout Design:-
1 - My Favorite Locomotive determined my:-
- ERA
- TIME
- PLACE
- EVENTS
2 - So to Investigate the Place I used Google Earth to Zoom in onto the Railway System of Interest.
- This Allowed Me to Take Screen Shots of Areas of Interest and to Count Tracks and Measure Lengths Etc.
- Also Allowed to get a Feeling for the Scenery and Topographical Challenge.
- This Showed the Bridges, Buildings, Town/ Suburbs and Spot a Train with Cars to Determine How Many there Are.
3 - Bought Book's on the ERA for More Information on the Subject.
- Checked Ebay and the Likes for All Requirements and Cross Reference them with Real Prices on the NET and LHS.
4 - Downloaded XTRACKCAD for FREE to help with Getting the Layout in Perspective.
- Shorten Lengths between Towns to Fit in All the Towns I needed.
- This Way I could See what is there on the XtrackCad Layout Size and Make Changes until Happy.
5 - Made a Folder on the Computer Call 'YOUR RAILWAY NAME' and Made Folders in there Named - Subject 1 etc.
- That Makes Finding the Subject on a Matter Easily Found or to Add a Similar One To.
- One Subject Was a Costings One to See How Much it is All Going to Cost.
6 - Once Feeling Good About the Information on My Travels, I can Start Collecting the Ingredients.

Hope this Helps With Some More Ideas. Dave I


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Is this one big island in the middle of the room?

With a layout room 38x44 feet you could do so much with an around the walls/peninsula type of layout. Plenty of room for continuous grade.

Here's one in one of my father's friends basements (He's at 1000ft end to end of mainline and it takes ~30 minutes for a train to traverse the whole layout without stopping.)



















It seems like you're missing opportunites for bridge/tunnel crossings by having all of the lines perfectly parallel around the mountain. Even with the grade differences, I still don't get it. With no passing tracks only 1 train will be able to traverse the rails at any 1 time unless their all going the same speed/direction.

With 13 layers at 10" increments you're talking about a 10 foot tall mountain? With a turntable on top?

Is this just a display layout or are you planning operations. With 2700 feet of mainline seems a shame to not have it be able to be operational.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Giants said:


> Each Layer (lap) is 10 Inches Higher than the Previous Layer except where the Elevation changes to Incline/Decline.


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tjcruiser said:


> Yeah, but what about the topography rise perpendicular to the track ... across each grouping of 5 or 6 nested loops? Judging from the "bird's eye view" proximity of track in your drawing layout, that across-the-grain slope (to achieve a 10" height delta between each lap) will be incredibly steep ... right? If each lap rises 10", then a "cluster" of 5 or 6 laps must rist 50" or 60" within the footprint of that "bird's eye" cluster of 5 or 6 parallel tracks. That's a near-vertical 5-foot slope!


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sstlaure said:


> With 13 layers at 10" increments you're talking about a 10 foot tall mountain? With a turntable on top?



Giants,

I have to say that I'm still scratching my head on this one. You said earlier that each individual loop rises 10" from the next. On the SouthEast corner of your layout (assuming North is up on the drawing), you have 12 closely nested loops. Per SST's comment above (and mine prior), that's a 120" near-vertical rise.

Possible, I guess, but it seems impracticle to me. How will you see and or access the top? Are you planning on building this in a large, high-ceiling warehouse?

Again, not trying to be critical ... just trying to understand and offer 2-cents to help you grasp the daunting vertical dimensionality of this layout.

Cheers,

TJ


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Another thing I find odd is making all of the towns stack vertically in the same location. Seems it would be better to spread them out along the mainline so that you can have distinct scenes that evoke the flavor of that particular town (industries, structures, etc tell the local story and give a reason for the railroad.)

Why be so fixed on having 2700 feet of track? Does that help you operationally? In my opinion I think it hinders the overall plan. Rather than model all 44 towns, take out every other one. (Selective compression) Cut the mainline down to ~1000ft (After seeing 1000ft mainline in person - I can't even imagine needing anything more....but that's just me.) Give yourself distance and space for each town to do them justice and give them a purpose other than just a name at a mileage marker.

Your track plan feels to me more like the Polar Express (round and round the same mountain) rather than meandering through the beautiful Virginia countryside/mountains.

You could get the same visual effect as what you're looking for (better in my opinion) with a multi-deck railroad as everything will be separated rather than stacked up.

Not saying what you have planned isn't possible or that you shouldn't build exactly what's in your mind. It's your railroad, build it as you want it.

I'd just hate to have 10's of thousands of dollars invested in a model railroad and have it be limited in it's purpose/usage beyond trains going roundy-round. Something like that you only have the time to build once (and it takes a lifetime.)

When planning a layout I think about what I want the layout's purpose to be first. Think jobs along the line. Railroads don't operate trains just to burn coal/diesel, they move freight/passengers. That movement of material is what interests me (moreso than just running the trains themselves.)


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

*Vgn design*

Thank-you for Your Interest as this is a Real Life Railroad to Model.
Had to Make sure I cover Most Bases and Still keep it Feasible.
The Intention Was to have All TOWNS in 4 Group's to Look like 4 TOWNSHIPS, BRIDGES in a Group to have the Same Water Flow, 
TUNNELS in a Group so the Mountain contained them etc.
As this is an Unfinished CAD Drawing, I placed this here to Show Progress.
I basically had to get the Overall Dimensions in place First and then I can Alter the Finer Details.
Almost there as the Research is Done and the Final Details to put into the Town's Passing Lanes and Deepwater's Extension and the Roanoke's Yard.
The Length of the VGN is Important to Me as It is to Make the Longest Distance Possible.
The 10 inch Height Difference is for the Mountains as this is the Curved Tracks of West Virginia.
The Straight Tracks are the Flats of Less Incline back to the Coast through Virginia.
And Yes it is an Island Mountain.
Here is the Next Progress Drawing:-










The Materials at hand are 10 tonnes of Timber I beams, 2 Tonnes of 2x4's and 36 off 36 x 142 inch Flooring for the Curves. Dave I


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

*VGN Mountain Incline*

Been Doing some Sketches on the 60 Degree Mountain Incline with 10 inch Track Height x 6 inch Track Center Spacing's:- 










So Mountains need to be Excavated for Transport and is Now Looking Good. Dave I


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## SAR900 (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes, an ambitious layout,, Dave if you read all the suggestions and then take into consideration the oppinions,, you will have a fantastic layout..something like that will take years and be well worth the effort in the end.:thumbsup:


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## Giants (Jun 17, 2011)

*VGN Bridges*

Here is an Example Sketch for a Mountain River of 5 Bridges together:-










On the VGN, there are All Sizes of Bridges,
the Sketch Illustrates 6 inch Track Spacing's at 10 inch Track Heights.


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