# ALCO 200 Series



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

These of course are Lionel. I am starting the thread to address these engines. I collected a few and they do have slight variations. These are low cost units for the time. Unlike the majority of steam engines they were produced in a variety of colors with road names. They varied with magnetic axles, wto and three position e units and an optional front coupler.

Today I am starting out with a 225 Ches. and Ohio a wreck I thought I got at a good price. Time will tell. The problem is the front truck. Too far forward. Let's investigate.










Ok I removed the truck and found the pin is not centered to the truck but half an inch toward the center. When lined up with a 216 truck the knuckle is also back the half an inch. The distance on both, from the knucle to the pin was 3 and a quarter inches.











Hidden under the truck was a second tag, the first was on the motor.










I have no idea what this truck belongs to,aside from the offset it looks identical to the other one. I should compare it to the dummy I have.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The fix*

I came up with a plan. I am going to cut the center out move it half an inch forward. Make an adapter plate and rivet it all together. For some strange reason I have no idea how the metal piece attaches to the plastic bottom piece . I am not going to chance a removal. It will be easier to cut it.










The adapter plate needed a hole since the pin is actualy a rivet and sticks out the bottom.










I aligned the adapter to the pin plate and I had a chance to resolder the connection for the roller. Plenty of room.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Rivet Rivet*

Time to drill the holes. The plates were easy and was done on a block of wood. Well, it was easy until I broke a drill and OUCH! and cut my thumb (gee I'm dumb). I try to do this stuff and not get cut, the band aide was the quick fix. 

The truck was a challenge. I suspended the truck over the vise jaws using a common door wedge. Here it is.











I took the time to paint it up too.










The obverse side and the completed job. I did have to cut the corners for a fit.











Yes the last picture has the injured thumb.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The outcome.*

Right ,Left Good!:thumbsup:










Just enough clearance. Left and right. The shell was offset for the pin so the rivets had plenty of clearance. Just another day with the hobby.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Time to drill the holes. The plates were easy and was done on a block of wood. Well, it was easy until I broke a drill and OUCH! and cut my thumb (gee I'm dumb). I try to do this stuff and not get cut, the band aide was the quick fix.


You are a poet too.




T-Man said:


> Right ,Left Good!:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After you cut it did you take a good look to see how it actually comes off? I never fooled around with one of those trucks, there must be a way.
Probably have to take the side frames off?
Or dismantle the whole thing?

Nice fix but.......NO EPOXY USED AT ALL!???


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## Taxman7735 (Apr 28, 2012)

Nice work. Did you break the drill or the bit? Gotta love those errant power tools.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The drill bit broke.

Quote:After you cut it did you take a good look to see how it actually comes off? end Quote.
I knew I forgot a picture a closup of the metal edges against the plastic.

The frame stayed on during all the drillling. It may be kept on with metal teeth squeezing the plastic. Just like the small 1015 transformer. I just couldn't see. I would have have to destroy it to find out. Maybe another day.

NO epoxy yet.

Caution

Use a sharp drill bit.

The wheels came off after I made the cut. I should of put them on before I did the rivets. It was harder. I placed the axle and wheels against the sides from the edge the moved one axle in just over a hump. The the other side was moved in and dowm to the slot. The the first side was moved to the slot. The axles were moved parallel to the track not from the bottom like a post war truck.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A little epoxy would have worked better then a band-aid.:laugh:

You got to fix the bottom of the nose-plate on that one too?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That shell needs more work. Half the side is missing. I may use a Missouri Pacific shell for now.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*GOO Time*

To repair a shell where there is none, tape is not enough. You need a mold. I have a little Plaster on hand and an itch to get started.

A tub to hold everthing.










Plaster and water










I am using my 212 shell for two reasons. It has an enclosed front and overall it is not in that great of shape. An excellant candidate.
Tape up the holes.



















I poured my 1/3 portion of water in first, then added the plaster and mixed fast. Then set the shell in.



















Now time will only tell. It was soupy so it dry overnight.

How did know to mix fast and set quick? If you don't, you get this.










It just might work. If not, I will have the best gate crashing engine around.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Could not Wait*

With thunderstorms tonight, not much local for fireworks.

So here we go.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*A little dirty*



















Cleaned and good as new ah, er, old.










Now the test fit to fix the Chesapeake and Ohio.










I am going to let the mold cure. One reason why I removed it from the plastic tub. Maybe I will spray it with some clear paint, just to seal it.

As you can see all I ned to do is fill in the empty spaces to fix it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You are truly going to new lengths!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

John's right ... you are boldy going where no man has gone before!

You might want to wax your original parts a bit next time, so they release from the mold easily. Or coat them with a little Vaseline.

Question -- plaster is OK for the mold ... you don't need long-term strength. But now that you have the mold, what will you pour to make your new part? JB Weld with some reinforcement backer material?

TJ


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

After this, he may be ordering plaster in bulk too.  

Plaster drop:









Carl


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The smooth flat parts didn't stick. The problem was around the lights. I only need the lower end anyway, to make repairs.

For the repair work, I plan on using fiberglass matte for drywall and wire to support the epoxy.

I have two noses that need repair work. First, I need to make a block to fill the coupler hole. Something I can work around.

It is enough to get the job done. 

Somewhere there is a picture of a whole Alco nose front that was molded this way. Maybe it was a CTT publication.

Glad you enjoyed this.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Now I know where to send my engines when I drop them!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Another mold of the front*


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*First Try*

For support I used two wires and a piece of fiberglass screen.



















Time to remove. OOOOPS. I guess painting the mold was a bad idea.










Repair











Cure TIme



















Waiting line for the next step.








208


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*After some grooming*










You can see the wires.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Time to remove. OOOOPS. I guess painting the mold was a bad idea.


I wonder if a thin coat of Vaseline on the mold would have prevented the epoxy from sticking to it ??? Maybe run a test case on some scrap?

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Next step*

TJ they have sealers for plaster I just don't know what it is. Next shopping trip. The clear coat and primer didn't stick at all. It peeled right off.

The wire.



















The mold










The removal



















Groom



















I added more for the curve symmetry.




























So far so good.

I use a dremel sander on the epoxy and a finger nail file for corners


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Good enough*

Scratch putty and primer


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

T-man, that looking really nice. I would have thought clearing the mold with high gloss paint, and maybe a bit of Pam would keep things from sticking, Just a thought.

Carl


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Next patient*

I used an acrylic primer and a clear coat/urethane. The two painy joined and later peeled off.


Vaseline helped but I had cut around the edge.





































before



















Not perfect but OK.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice work, T. You've shown us your use of that wire trick before ... quite clever, hidden reinforcement like that.

Another pair saved!

TJ


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

So if I can pile on this thread about another ALCO 200 series repair…. my C & O 225 somehow took a spill and the plastic part of the front truck broke. Currently the ones on EBAY are in rough shape and I'm not finding replacement trucks WITH COLLECTORS in the usual parts stores. Has anyone swapped a collector on these trucks? Looks like a rivet and two tabs but you never know… TIA


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is copied from a thread more ALCOS

I also had a first, opening the front truck to rewire the roller.




I used a screwdriver on the inside and pried against the metal top.




I would epoxy the piece back on..


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Thanks T-Man. Knowing how to remove the plastic part from the metal frame will let me move my good collector to a replacement part that lacks it. Love this place.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Your lucky I just recently accomplished this.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If it involves epoxy, T-Man is the expert!


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Wait. What parts were epoxied back on?


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## steam chaser (Feb 21, 2011)

Great job :appl::thumbsup:


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I am impressed with the results. Good idea using the reinforcing mesh. If you have more of these to do let me suggest getting some silicone mold making compound. It will capture all the detail and is much easier to remove from the master and can be used over and over. A lot of hobby shops stock the materials or you can get it on the web. I have gotten great results using Smooth-On products.

Pete


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

T-Man, I read the section about the redoing of the truck.

I made a post a few weeks ago, where I forgot to throw a turnout, and my Alco did a nose dive.
It cracked the plastic truck right at the pivot.
Had the trucks been metal, they may have bent, but not cracked off.

And, if they would have been metal, I could have repaired it like you did.
But Martin from The Train Engineer told me the type of plastic used does not glue very well.

So now my dummy "A" unit sits without a back truck while I wait for him to locate a matching truck.
It's worth the wait, but if metal was still used, I may not have been waiting.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

ErnestHouse said:


> Wait. What parts were epoxied back on?


My truck was just a wire solder job . It was fine and needed no epoxy. The end that was broken on your truck is fixable from what I have seen.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

RonthePirate said:


> T-Man, I read the section about the redoing of the truck.
> 
> I made a post a few weeks ago, where I forgot to throw a turnout, and my Alco did a nose dive.
> It cracked the plastic truck right at the pivot.
> ...


Epoxy at stress points is difficult. The stuff just has to hold the tension and sometimes fails. All you can do is increase the bonding area and use a mess or pape rclips for that extra support.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

T-Man said:


> This is copied from a thread more ALCOS
> 
> I used a screwdriver on the inside and pried against the metal top.
> 
> ...


I figured out the prying action that doesn't destroy the plastic is to use the wheel as a fulcrum. Putting them back on was hard and I ended up with a big crack requiring epoxy after all. :laugh:








My replacement truck was from a dummy ALCO and I needed to transfer my pickup roller. The rollers must go on with the wheels removed.








The pickup roller tension spring mechanism is held onto the truck with a pin. Pliers did the work to mangle it enough to remove it and it lived to be punched on the new truck.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Everything worked out all right.


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