# Williams GG-1 Conversion to TMCC w/cruise control



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, here it is, the saga of the Williams GG-1 conversion in pictures. 

Here's the intended victim, a Williams GG-1 with a really HEAVY diecast shell!











Starting out, rip the shell off and revealed is the ancient Williams reversing board, relay based. No sound in this model it appears.












Stripped everything, removed the motor trucks, nothing but a piece of scrap metal.












Unpack out the Cruise Commander board and mount it between the motor trucks.











Note aluminum block spacer, provides heat sink and spacing for the truck motor mount to swivel under it. Thermal compound used on the block on both sides to help with heat dissipation. 











Wired up the motors and track pickup and ground, all you need for basic operation.











Success! Runs like a champ. 











Time to attack what is always the hardest part of these installations, the mechanical installation of the electrocouplers. Since I'm modifying a Williams engine and using Lionel electrocouplers, this should be interesting. Note the Williams coupler is soldered to the truck plate, interesting construction. It did make it easy to remove, just use heat.











The old coupler is in the background, and the intended replacement lies in the foreground.











Nuts to that right now, let's hook up the sound, that'll be more fun! Mounted the sound board using Velcro strips, makes it easy to take if I need to remove it for any reason.











The speaker is also mounted on Velcro at the other end of the engine, only place big enough for it.











Plug a couple of cables, and solder the tach leads for engine sound effects to the nearest motor, and time for another track test. 











Sounds great, but now the only thing left is the electrocoupler installation! Here's the first one mounted, and the plastic mounting plate that I constructed to fasten it to the plate. Drilled a few holes and bolted it down.











Here's the other side of the truck top plate with the electrocoupler mounted. 











The original truck with the Williams coupler and the converted one with the electrocoupler installed. Pretty slick if I do say so myself!











Another shot of the two trucks.











This is the plastic mounting plate that I made to mount the electrocoupler. The search for suitable material was the hardest part, finally used a $1 plastic putty knife from Home Depot, it was the exact right thickness to make the plates!











Here's one of the completed electrocoupler installations, wires are routed out the slot that the truck support rides in.











Time for the full track test, seems everything works!











The finished product with the shell back on, looks just like it did before I injected $250 worth of electronics into it!  Maybe I should be disappointed. :laugh: Note the pantographs, they're actually function, that's my TMCC antenna since the shell is metal.











Testing is interesting, at the slowest setting of about 1" a second, if you just stop the train, the wheels will slowly spin on the track keeping the engine running at the same rate.  Very impressive, should be easy to manage on a larger layout, set the speed and truly forget it!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Very nice stepwise project presentation! Looks like a successful Steve Austin rebuild!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One oddity that I found during the build. This is the second time that my KW transformer affected something on the track, it was screwing up the Alt settings to the cruise control board. I stuck an old 1033 on it and it worked fine. I'm thinking the fact that someone had put a grounded cord on the KW is causing these issues, time to replace that with the standard 2 prong plug.


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## jimsandman (Oct 12, 2012)

Those look like the Lionel Dash 9 couplers?

I've got a Cruise Commander, and the Railsounds commander ready to go. Didn't even consider electrocouplers till I see yours. I do have some of the Dash9 couplers if that's what you used.

Jim


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

Very nice install and thanks for the pics!


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## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Great post. Makes me want to leave conventional.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, I looked at the possibility of using a 3 prong plug when I replaced the power cords on my KWs. After some consideration, I used a standard 2 prong plug as I didn't see any reason to ground the transformer core.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

jimsandman said:


> Those look like the Lionel Dash 9 couplers?
> 
> I've got a Cruise Commander, and the Railsounds commander ready to go. Didn't even consider electrocouplers till I see yours. I do have some of the Dash9 couplers if that's what you used.Jim


Those are indeed DASH-9 couplers. I had to modify them to remove the magnetic decoupling feature because it got in the way. I spent more time modifying the couplers and trucks to work than the rest of the conversion! 



captaincog said:


> Very nice install and thanks for the pics!


You're most welcome, I hope they help someone.



seabilliau said:


> Great post. Makes me want to leave conventional.


Come on in, the water's fine. 



servoguy said:


> John, I looked at the possibility of using a 3 prong plug when I replaced the power cords on my KWs. After some consideration, I used a standard 2 prong plug as I didn't see any reason to ground the transformer core.


I don't either, and other KW's with the standard plug work fine.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Nice job! I think I would have skipped replacing the couplers but this is great info for the future If I decide to upgrade one of my other conventional locomotives.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was determined to have electrocouplers, but I might re-think it if I did another.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

*tmcc GG-1*

nice job john, but what about the run/program switch,does it have one? 
what about the volume pod,do you need one or do you just leave it full volume?
this would be good info for me ,senes I am going to TMCC my williams gen.5 Amtrack loco very soon, its got lotsa-lotsa room inside its shell.
.....Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yes, the PGM/RUN switch is under the front of the locomotive, it was the same location as the old reverse lockout switch was located. I leave the volume at full since you can adjust that with the remote. It's possible to add a volume control, but I don't normally bother.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

Ok, what about the sounds?the GG-1 was electric,right? so what horn/sounds did you use? Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I used the GG-1 electric sounds, naturally.  Turns out, they have that sound option available for the ERR RailSounds Commander.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

so it sounds correct then? that is very cool, reason I'm asking sooo many questions is I have a very nice GG-1 Lionel five stripe I want to TMCC after my Amtrack conversion is finished.
you know, I would TMCC my tiolet seat if I could :laugh::laugh:

Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> so it sounds correct then? that is very cool, reason I'm asking sooo many questions is I have a very nice GG-1 Lionel five stripe I want to TMCC after my Amtrack conversion is finished.


Yep, has the obnoxious horn of the GG1 and everything. 


> you know, I would TMCC my tiolet seat if I could :laugh::laugh:


Didn't I post the pictures of that conversion? It was really neat, had the _autowipe _feature.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

we really had to go there gunrunner? X-0


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

njoffroader said:


> we really had to go there gunrunner? X-0


Mike started it!  :laugh:


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't recall seeing the autowipe feature,but as long as it works ,thats cool
BTW I'm use to being acused of starting sh... crap,and this real close, so there you go. :laugh::laugh: ..........Mike


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

just saw all of this. boy john you really like to mess with these things.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, the interesting part is, that one has already exited the picture.  It, for some reason, would derail it's pilots on O36 Fastrack, even though it ran fine on O31 tubular track. I finally got tired of trying to make it run and pulled the electronics out and put back a simple electronic reverse board and sold it. Those electronics made their way into another locomotive.


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## Fighterpilot (Mar 16, 2011)

Well, I now know who to ask for advise if and when I decide to convert my Williams GP-9 to TMCC. You know your stuff, GRJ. I did add a sound system to the GP-9 Williams dummy diesel (lots of room in there) from MRC. It's ok at best.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The GP-9 should be a piece of cake to convert, I've done several Williams conversions. I most recently converted a Reading F-7 A-A to MTH PS/2. I have another Reading set that I'm going to do in TMCC so I can run on either system. 

For absolute sound quality, Lionel Legacy is still the best, but it's not available for upgrades.

For retrofit command, I have to give the edge to MTH PS/2 conversions, the RailSounds 4 is not quite the quality of the MTH. I keep hoping Lionel will make the RailSounds 5.0 stuff available for sale, I'd love to pick up a couple of sound sets in RS5.

Make sure you're happy with the operation on the layout in conventional first, I ended up taking the command out of that GG-1 because it couldn't handle Fastrack O-36 curves.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Grj , nice job. ( from what little I did understand) . This stuff is way beyond me!


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## Fighterpilot (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks GRJ, all my locomotives are now Legacy except for a Williams Warbonnet Sante Fe Dash 9 and a Western Maryland GP-9 and matching dummy. These locomotives will traverse my entire layout without any problems so it's a matter of making up my mind if I want to spend the money on the conversion and if I want to give it a try. I'll keep one of them in conventional transformer mode to pull my track cleaner car around the layout. The little GP-9 works great for that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, pulling the track cleaner around with cruise control is great, you can just set it to work and watch it, no throttle jockeying required.


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