# Code 100 Turnout issue



## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

On one of my turn outs, my cars (usually the one right behind the loco) will derail at the groove cut into the main (while running on the main) where the points would connect. Any ideas on how to fix this issue or if theres a deeper issue I cant see? Heres a picture of the point I'm talking about.


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

is it picking the point? or is it happening running both ways? may want to check you wheels and make sure that your trucks are not to tight or too loose. if those are fine time to look at the switch


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## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

Nope not hitting the point,and only happens in one direction (north to south as the picture is displayed) it's the groove in the main (see picture). It causes the first set of wheels on the car to rise up when it hits the end of the groove. The picture I posted is the NEW switch I just put in 15min before taking the picture. It's doing the same as the old one. The turnout is an Atlas code 100 #4. $18 wasted!! I feel as if they machined too much off the main rail causing the groove to be too deep. I'm contemplating slipping a piece of styrene or filed solder to reduce the depth...


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## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

If more than one turnout and more than one different car is having the problem I would look at the engine/truck that is pulling the cars through the turnout.

Ray


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## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

I just realized I had sovled the problem with another loco and car just hadnt done it with this one. Need to add the long shank coupler to the car because of the swing of the SD70Ace. The Loco puts more pressure on the outside wheel with the shorter coupler causing it to ride up at the groove. I also found out if I add just a little weight over the truck it doesnt derail either...but thats not an option as the car is a depressed center 4 truck flat car. Bought a new turnout for nothing....LOL


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Just as a note:
Having wheels out of gauge will also cause this problem, with either the wheels being to narrow or to wide.


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## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

Gauge is good. It's just the swing of the SD70Ace on 18" curves putting pressure on the outside wheels of the car it's pulling. Long shank couplers on the loco and the car right behind it solves the problem. While yes the engine will run on 18" curves it needs the long shank couplers if the the track leading up to the curve is a turnout (only place it has a problem).


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## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

Update:

Eating my own words here......the problem wasnt solved but I have found the solution. The original problem still stands. (this will only make sense if you looked at the photo posted) As the loco goes in to the curve the first truck on the first car right behind the loco derails. Cause: pressure put on the outside wheels from entering the curve causes the wheels slide into the point groove on the main (atlas #4 turnout) causing the wheel set to rise up. The there are two solutions: Add excessive weight to the car to keep it from rising up or replace the Atlas turnout with a Peco turnout. The Peco turnout has a more shallow groove in the main where the point connects. Probably going to go with the Peco....this is the only derail spot on my whole layout and I'am ready to get into my scenery. I want to make sure my track work is as good as possible before paint, ballast, and landscaping.....


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

The only way that the wheels can slide into the grove is if the point rails are not alinging right to fill the grove.
Switch to Peco's and you might not have that problem anymore.


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## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

No, this is when the switch is not thrown. It derails on the straight through path not the turn out path. The easiest way for me to explain it is if you go look at a turnout and look straight down on it at the main where the point meets the main. There is a groove for the point to recess into when thrown. My car wheels are hitting and riding up at this groove. The Peco groove is about half as deep so it should minimize the rising up causing the derailment.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Normally if it's derailing on the strait, your wheels are out of gauge. Too narrow or wide and it will do that. 
Are the wheel set that are climing over the top plastic wheels or steel? Are they talgo (truck mounted couplers) or body mount couplers?
Are they kadee or some other make?
Does it do it on all cars or just some?

But a second look at the switch I think the point indent is just cut way to deep into the rail, so I would just replace it!


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

maybe file the outer lip of the groove a little so it cant catch the flange?

edit, just looked at the picture.

it does look quite deep but I've only experienced atlas #6 & #8


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## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

Everything is in gauge, This location is the only place it happens. I only have 2 #4's on the mainline the rest are in the yard and the other is fine. All my other turnouts are #6's. I thought about filing it and still might try it later tonight....if that doesnt work I'll be trying to find a Peco switch this weekend hwell: I cant be the only one this has happened to. :laugh:


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I have had that happen with a few of mine. Yea just swap it out for a new one!


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

I would try to fix it before swapping it out. A small bit of filing may make it right. But then that also depends on the quality of the wheels on the cars. Are your wheels RP25 shape or are they sharp flanges? Train set type wheels will derail when RP25 will go through fine. Reason for the standard, right? 
For the fix, I would try filing just a tiny bit. First on the top tip of the moving rail. Taper it just ever so slightly so that there is not a sharp point for wheels to hang going toward the moving part. Then at the same time, I use needle nose and bend the top of the point just slightly in the direction of the fixed rail. This tends to ease the wheels past this point when in that direction. 
Coming in the direction that is giving you trouble can be the same problem in the way sharp wheel flanges catch. Very slightly filing the edge of the groove sticking out may give you enough help to make it run well. Sometimes sharp wheel flanges can be made to run better by gently filing this sharp flange a bit. 

Go easy with the file as there is no way to put it back if you remove too much!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Pfunmo said:


> For the fix, I would try filing just a tiny bit. First on the top tip of the moving rail. Taper it just ever so slightly so that there is not a sharp point for wheels to hang going toward the moving part. Then at the same time, I use needle nose and bend the top of the point just slightly in the direction of the fixed rail. This tends to ease the wheels past this point when in that direction.


Read his main problem, it has nothing to do with the divering track or the point rails, it has to do with the wheel climbing over the fixed rail when it's going strait, filing or bending the point rail won't do anything for his problem.


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

Agreed! But then it will help with the problem which comes next. While trying to make it run smoothly, I find it worthwhile to address and improve ALL the problems rather than just as they become problems. Proactive rather than after the fact. If we all did some of the minor things to improve turnouts before we laid them, there would be lots fewer complaints about the derailing. 
Since turnouts are mass produced, they come with some built-in defects that a few minutes can correct. 
Better still is if we can spot trouble with the layout design before we lay the first piece of track but that is something that has such a learning curve that I never try to correct those from a distance. They are hard enough to spot when a person is there looking at the paper. 
I don't like to tell a guy to tear up the track and start over when there is a fix that takes so much less and works.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Code 100 is the track profile(size of rail) and turnout is a switch track.


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

If all things were ideal, we would not have turnouts near a curve so that the wheel flanges are pressing hard on the outer rail. But then that is one of those things that most of us never get around to spotting until we build the problem. Sometimes it does take a teardown to rebuild but I like to try simple things before going hard at a problem.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry should have use the :eyes:


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

nimt said:


> i have had that happen with a few of mine. Yea just swap it out for a new one!


and sold them to me ! :laugh:


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## outlawmodified (Sep 15, 2012)

*turnout probled*

It looks to me like you are out of gauge on the track just prior to the point.


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## mackdonn (Sep 26, 2012)

outlawmodified said:


> It looks to me like you are out of gauge on the track just prior to the point.


Thanks for all the responses!!!!

Nope....everything was in gauge. It was the groove cut into the main that is present on all atlas turnouts. Replaced it with a Peco turnout about a month ago....no problems since


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## outlawmodified (Sep 15, 2012)

*Turnout*

Glad you got it worked out, I have all atlas switches and no problems experienced.


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