# HO questions



## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Hi everyone. I'm mostly new to model railroading (haven't done anything for 30 years since I was a kid). All I have for equipment so far is a Walthers HO DCC starter set (this), a Zephyr Express DCC controller, and a few extra cars from Walthers Trainline/Mainline rolling stock. I live in an apartment that has two cats so I thought until I get a bigger place I will just stick with track that has the integrated roadbed. However there doesn't seem to me much variety of Walthers PowerLoc track so I'm thinking I have to start over with something else. It seems like Kato is the only company that has roadbed track with looser curves. I am looking for something with at least 22 or 24" radius curves so I can run just about any size loco or rolling stock on there. Is Kato my only option for roadbed track with these requirements? They seem high quality but also expensive.

Also, do you guys usually mix and match locos and rolling stock from different manufacturers? Does it seem like all the modern stuff from the different manufacturers couple together fine? It seems like everyone is using a knuckle coupler now similar to Kadee; back when I was a kid everything was horn hook. So before I went out to buy different brands I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a problem. Just referring to new equipment for now, not used, because I know older stuff might be more of a problem. For now I just have Walthers, but I see some nice stuff from ScaleTrains, Atlas, Athearn, BRI, Intermountain, Kadee, etc. ScaleTrains looks like a pretty new company but they seem really high quality.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Nowadays, there aren't any more horn/hooks except for older models on eBay.
The best bang-for-the-buck locomotives and rolling stock are Athearn RTR and Walthers Mainline. They both have excellent detail, and won't perform open-wallet surgery.
The Mainline series has ProtoMax couplers which are as good as Kadees.
Athearn employs McHenry couplers which won't last long, but converting them to Kadees is easy.
Plus, if you like building kits, Athearn Blue Box and _Accurail_ are great ways to save money.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You've done right in posting here in
the HO forum. But, please see my comments
to your original post in the New Member forum.

Don


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

LocoChris said:


> I see some nice stuff from ScaleTrains, Atlas, Athearn, BRI, Intermountain, Kadee, etc. ScaleTrains looks like a pretty new company but they seem really high quality.


ScaleTrains isn't really all that new, but their stuff is superb... especially their RivetCounter line.
InterMountain is excellent, as is Kadee and Atlas Gold & Silver. Athearn _Genesis_ is also premium.


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## Bonz85 (Sep 16, 2019)

Nothing wrong with mixing brands of freight and pretty much all knuckle couplers work together. There can be a coupler height difference and that can cause issues but that can happen with the same brands, mostly causes issues if your track changes grade.. I have found Accumate couplers to be the worst, I would take Bachmann ezmate over those. Depending on how long of trains you plan on running coupler quality might not make much of a difference but Kadee still superior.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I have models that are from days long gone that work perfectly fine with brand new models. As long as you follow nmra standards they’ll all work together for the most part


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I have some Kato and some gray bachmann which is the better of their two offerings. It's generally considered that the Kato is the top tier plastic base track by many. I in the end decided to go with micro engineering but just because apparently I'm overly sensitive to the noise of these plastic base track products. Which doesn't mean they are bad products, I've come to the conclusion I'm just a little outside the norm in this area.

Anyway I think I'd look at switches and go with whatever brand you like best overall by the switch offerings ...


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

LateStarter said:


> The best bang-for-the-buck locomotives and rolling stock are Athearn RTR and Walthers Mainline. They both have excellent detail, and won't perform open-wallet surgery.
> The Mainline series has ProtoMax couplers which are as good as Kadees.
> Athearn employs McHenry couplers which won't last long, but converting them to Kadees is easy.


Do the Athearn Genesis models use the same McHenry couplers that don't last that long? If so, that's unfortunate, considering they are a premium product. What do you think of Atlas's Master line couplers?


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Severn said:


> I in the end decided to go with micro engineering but just because apparently I'm overly sensitive to the noise of these plastic base track products. Which doesn't mean they are bad products, I've come to the conclusion I'm just a little outside the norm in this area.


Yes I heard that Micro Engineering is one of the best as far as prototypical looks go.


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

DonR said:


> You've done right in posting here in
> the HO forum. But, please see my comments
> to your original post in the New Member forum.
> 
> Don


Done, thanks for the comments in that post. I do have some questions about them, and thought I would just ask here.



DonR said:


> However, the rails on roadbed track systems pretty much limit you to
> track, turnouts and crossovers made by that manufacturer.
> They are not easily compatible with the standard widely
> available flex track and the variety of turnouts and
> ...


Thanks for the tips, Don. I've never done my own roadbeds before but I have seen that foam and cork seem to be pretty popular. Is there a good place online to buy them that's not super expensive? So you just use normal Elmer's glue eh? Doesn't rip the roadbed too bad when you need to rearrange?



DonR said:


> There are under track magnetic uncouplers for use in
> yards and spur tracks. There is also a Kadee electromagnet
> uncoupler for use in mains. But you should definitely have
> a HOG (Hand Of God) manual uncoupler. It is a simple
> ...


Is there a cheap pre-made HOG you can buy online that you recommend?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yes, Athearn Genesis use the same couplers as all their other products….the plastic McHernrys….
Atlas Master Line couplers are worse…..they are called Accumates (made by Accurail), and are 2 piece plastic affairs with no spring….

I replace ALL couplers with metal Kadees…..Walthers Proto couplers are exactly the same as Kadees, so those are good too….

Rapido’s couplers are also metal, and basically the same as Kadees as well….($4.95)


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Yes, Athearn Genesis use the same couplers as all their other products….thr plastic McHernrys….
> Atlas Master Line couplers are worse…..they are called Accumates (made by Accurail), and are 2 piece plastic affairs with no spring….
> 
> I replace ALL couplers with metal Kadees…..Walthers Proto couplers are exactly the same as Kadees, so those are good too….


That must get expensive. Do you prefer the #148, #158 one of the others?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Maybe a little expensive, but rock solid performance…..never had any Kadees fail yet, and I’ve been doing this since 1986, so…..

I’m old fashioned….I use #5’s….but the #148’s are easier drop-ins, with the whisker centering springs….the #158’s have “scale” heads, a tad smaller with a little more detail….


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Maybe a little expensive, but rock solid performance…..never had any Kadees fail yet, and I’ve been doing this since 1986, so…..
> 
> I’m old fashioned….I use #5’s….but the #148’s are easier drop-ins, with the whisker centering springs….the #158’s have “scale” heads, a tad smaller with a little more detail….


Yes I heard the #5's are popular with a lot of people as well. Thanks for the tip, I think I will start doing that for the non-Walthers models.

Also, which Kadee coupler models are the Walthers couplers most similar to? For example between 5, 148 and 158


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## Bonz85 (Sep 16, 2019)

I typically use the #5 on rolling stock and the #148 on locomotives, the #5 doesn't fit that well on a blue box Athearn locomotive. Main reason for that though is a couple places I usually order from were sold out of the #148 so used them sparingly. With the #158 being a smaller coupler there is a greater chance of them disconnecting. I will say I've had bachmann ezmate couplers hold up to pulling over 60 cars, so those aren't horrible. I have replaced more accumate couplers than any other brand and I think they are the least compatible with other brands.


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Bonz85 said:


> I typically use the #5 on rolling stock and the #148 on locomotives, the #5 doesn't fit that well on a blue box Athearn locomotive. Main reason for that though is a couple places I usually order from were sold out of the #148 so used them sparingly. With the #158 being a smaller coupler there is a greater chance of them disconnecting. I will say I've had bachmann ezmate couplers hold up to pulling over 60 cars, so those aren't horrible. I have replaced more accumate couplers than any other brand and I think they are the least compatible with other brands.


Thanks, that is good to know. Also curious to know if the Walthers protomax couplers are more like Kadee #148's or more like #158's.


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## Bonz85 (Sep 16, 2019)

I only have a couple walthers cars only one is new enough to have come with proto max couplers but looks like the previous owner replaced it with kadee shelf couplers. Unless proto max has shelf couplers they are identical to ones I have on hand.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Best stuff by category (UPDATED)


.......




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

LateStarter said:


> Best stuff by category (UPDATED)
> 
> 
> .......
> ...


Very helpful list! I had no idea that everything Rapido and MTH RS were such high quality, and I hadn't even heard of Arrowhead.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

LocoChris said:


> Very helpful list! I had no idea that everything Rapido and MTH RS were such high quality, and I hadn't even heard of Arrowhead.


You'll find that the really high-premium stuff, e.g., Arrowhead, Rapido, Moloco, etc, sell out almost immediately.
If you can afford them it's best to jump on 'pre-orders' as soon as they're announced.
Otherwise they get really hard to find.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

But really, even if you're not on a budget, you can't go wrong with _Accurail_ kits for freight cars (except tankers, flatcars, & cabooses).
They're extremely affordable.
Install Kadees, and put in metal wheelsets, and they'll glide and perform as good as (or better than) any premium car on the market.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

A list of basic tools and stuff for building models:








Basic items for good modelwork


For wood or plastic models For building kits, or scratchbuilding (basic & simplified). The list may seem long, but you'll eventually acquire them all out of necessity. Clean flat work surface X-Acto Cutting mat Sprue cutter Mag lamp (or Opti-Visor). Scale rule Calipers (dial or digital)...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

LocoChris said:


> Thanks, that is good to know. Also curious to know if the Walthers protomax couplers are more like Kadee #148's or more like #158's.


Walthers Proto couplers are the same as #148’s (or #5’s)…..


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

LocoChris said:


> Do the Athearn Genesis models use the same McHenry couplers that don't last that long? If so, that's unfortunate, considering they are a premium product. What do you think of Atlas's Master line couplers?


Yes, they do... for the simple reason that both brands (Athearn and McHenry) are products of the same company, Horizon Hobbies. It's an Achilles Heel in an otherwise good product line.

I keep a supply of metal couplers on hand, and change out the cheap plastic ones as they fail (anywhere from right out of the box to several years), so it's a manageable expense. Plastic wheels, on the other hand, get replaced right away.

Generally, newer models are more detailed than older ones, with higher priced ones having more detail and better prototypical fidelity, but older cars and locos work just fine with the newer stuff, and all brands work together.

In your situation, I don't really see any advantage to using roadbed track. Laying cork or foam roadbed isn't hard, and it's good practice for later. IMO, MicroEngineering does make the best looking track, but they only make a few different turnouts and flex track. Personally, I prefer their flex track, which is stiff and holds the configuration it's bent into, but many prefer other brands, which are springy and want to stay straight unless fastened down. If you're going to use roadbed track, KATO is the clear winner. Stay away from roadbed track with black roadbed. It uses steel rails which corrode easily and don't conduct electricity that well.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

I'm a fan of Kato Unitrack.

A modestly good variety to choose from in HO, good accessories for hookup (Powered UniJoiners, but these work best when not used on the floor).

And it looks good, too.

It can be found at reasonable discounts if you shop around.


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Walthers Proto couplers are the same as #148’s (or #5’s)…..


I noticed Rapido is installing Kadee #158's on some of their freight cars that I looked at. I wonder how well they couple with the ProtoMax, #5's and #148. Would you even bother replacing them with something bigger?


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## Bonz85 (Sep 16, 2019)

I wouldn't worry about replacing the #158 unless they give you problems. Should only happen if coupler heights are off or uneven track.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Rapido calls their couplers “semi-scale”…..same amount of extra detail as a #158, but more in size with a #148…..should not pose a problem, especially, as Bonz85 said, the couplers are at the correct height, etc….


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Chris

I have used both foam and cork roadbeds. I prefer the
cork...foam is 'softer' and can cause grade variations.

Yes, plain Elmer's white glue. But use just a small dab here
and there. That will stabilize the track but when you decide
on a different track plan you can simply use a flat putty knife
kind of blade to release the glue.

There are commercial HOG tools available at on line
hobby stores. Here is one:








Kadee #241 Manual Uncoupling Tool With Spring Pick


Kadee #241 Manual Uncoupling Tool With Spring Pick, Order Yours Today!




tonystrains.com





Don't know anything about it. I always used home made. Very easy to make.
Just as good. 

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Chris

About knuckle couplers. I prefer Kadee #148 because it is so much
easier to assemble and install. If possible use a screw to attach the
box. If that is not possible, be sure to put a dab of super glue to
hold the 'top' on the box. Also, put a TINY dab of super glue on
the bottom coupler spring tab. That will prevent the spring from taking
wing in the event of a 'hard' coupling.

If you plan to change many couplers by all means get the
Kadee PLASTIC alignment too. It guides you in vertical alignment
of couplers.

Don


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

LocoChris said:


> Do the Athearn Genesis models use the same McHenry couplers that don't last that long? If so, that's unfortunate, considering they are a premium product. What do you think of Atlas's Master line couplers?


If Atlas is still using the AccuMate couplers (from AccuRail) with the split-body design, they're garbage. They get tossed and replaced with proper Kadees.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

LocoChris said:


> Also, do you guys usually mix and match locos and rolling stock from different manufacturers? Does it seem like all the modern stuff from the different manufacturers couple together fine? It seems like everyone is using a knuckle coupler now similar to Kadee;


Yes.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

LocoChris said:


> Yes I heard the #5's are popular with a lot of people as well. Thanks for the tip, I think I will start doing that for the non-Walthers models.
> 
> Also, which Kadee coupler models are the Walthers couplers most similar to? For example between 5, 148 and 158


#5 is Kadee's long time standard. #148 is identical, but with an integrated wire "whisker" spring instead of the folded bronze centering spring.

#58 is has the smaller-sized "scale" head. #158 is the whisker-spring version of the #58.

Those are the standard couplers. Other Kadee #s are various special-use variations (shorter/longer shank, coupler head mounted higher/lower on the shank to fix vertical alignment issues, etc.)


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

LocoChris said:


> Thanks, that is good to know. Also curious to know if the Walthers protomax couplers are more like Kadee #148's or more like #158's.


The ProtoMax couplers are pretty beefy. They're definitely more similar to a #5/148, if not chunkier.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I find they are exactly the same size as #5/#148….


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

cv_acr said:


> If Atlas is still using the AccuMate couplers (from AccuRail) with the split-body design, they're garbage. They get tossed and replaced with proper Kadees.


In my experience all Atlas H.O. pieces are now using Accumates…..I replace those with #5’s as soon as they get home….


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> I have used both foam and cork roadbeds. I prefer the
> cork...foam is 'softer' and can cause grade variations.


With all due respect... I would disagree. I guess maybe if you're using nails and really slamming it in, or really slopping the adhesive on and leaving gobs under the track, but foam doesn't cause grade variations when laid properly. I prefer foam for it's sound deadening qualities, cleaner profile (no sanding), and in my experience, it lasts longer than cork before crumbling.


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> With all due respect... I would disagree. I guess maybe if you're using nails and really slamming it in, or really slopping the adhesive on and leaving gobs under the track, but foam doesn't cause grade variations when laid properly. I prefer foam for it's sound deadening qualities, cleaner profile (no sanding), and in my experience, it lasts longer than cork before crumbling.


Seems like people are pretty evenly split over this, kind of like Chevy/Ford or Coke/Pepsi.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

LocoChris said:


> Seems like people are pretty evenly split over this, kind of like Chevy/Ford or Coke/Pepsi.


Well, like most things in this hobby, there is no one best product. It's a matter of personal preference (and sometimes price and availability).

However, I'm not sure what you mean with your last comparison... there is only Coke and sewage...


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