# Been away for a while. A question regarding smaller locos availability.



## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

I have been away from n-gauge for a few good years. I was recently researching small locomotives for my planned coffee table layout and I cannot find i.e. Kato NW2 switchers or some of other ones like Bachmann 44 or 70 tonners. Did the stock dried up, was affected by covid or some of those locos are no longer being made? I am just curious. I was only able to find used Kato NW2s (or new ones on Ebay) for what appears to be close to 3x the MSRP. Sorry if that's something obvious that I should know but my last n-gauge purchase was probably over 7 years ago.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

drabina said:


> I have been away from n-gauge for a few good years. I was recently researching small locomotives for my planned coffee table layout and I cannot find i.e. Kato NW2 switchers or some of other ones like Bachmann 44 or 70 tonners. Did the stock dried up, was affected by covid or some of those locos are no longer being made? I am just curious. I was only able to find used Kato NW2s (or new ones on Ebay) for what appears to be close to 3x the MSRP. Sorry if that's something obvious that I should know but my last n-gauge purchase was probably over 7 years ago.


You don't want used?
Listed here, but I didn't look at the availability.




__





EMD NW2 Switcher







www.katousa.com


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

These, Kato, CNJ Rail Diesel Cars, #551 & #552, I bought new.
The only N scale locomotives I have ever bought new.
All the other locomotives I have are used, as are 95% of the structures.
Got a package deal. 


These run nice, one is a little faster than the other.
Note, I didn't paint the mountains, My Sister did. They came with the table.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Unfortunately for late-comers, the dealer's stock has largely dried up.

Over the last 15~20 years or so, a lot of N-scale (and HO scale, for that matter), was produced in smaller batches. If you wanted something, you had to reserve it through a dealer. The model train companies would only produce enough to cover the reservations, plus maybe a little extra. The "little extra" could be gone within a month or two, or linger around as long as several years or so, depending on the popularity.

The current pricing of used or left-over new stock represents the fact that re-runs of certain items are not being manufactured right now. With the current world situation, who knows when (if ever) that any re-runs will be scheduled, especially on Chinese-manufactured items. Until then, you'll simply have to make do with what you can find and pay the price if you decide you want it bad enough.


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

Mixed Freight said:


> Unfortunately for late-comers, the dealer's stock has largely dried up.
> 
> Over the last 15~20 years or so, a lot of N-scale (and HO scale, for that matter), was produced in smaller batches. If you wanted something, you had to reserve it through a dealer. The model train companies would only produce enough to cover the reservations, plus maybe a little extra. The "little extra" could be gone within a month or two, or linger around as long as several years or so, depending on the popularity.
> 
> The current pricing of used or left-over new stock represents the fact that re-runs of certain items are not being manufactured right now. With the current world situation, who knows when (if ever) that any re-runs will be scheduled, especially on Chinese-manufactured items. Until then, you'll simply have to make do with what you can find and pay the price if you decide you want it bad enough.


My advice is to check out spookshow.net to find out all you can before buying. I would like to buy exclusively new. I shop for used. Learned how to fix some locos that weren't running. Some where simple as a loose wire. One needed a new motor. This was a cheaper method for me. Brand new listed almost $100. Purchased loco and new motor for $45 including tax and shipping. Cleaned up the gears, lubed sparingly and my engine can pull the walls down slowly. Availability is always a problem. Especially if you're looking for specific road names. Might I suggest a 4 axle loco like a GP series?


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

I recently bought two Bachmann 0-6-0 steam switchers from modeltrainstuff.com. I'm not a steam guy, but they'll do. And by all means use spookshow.net.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Mixed Freight has the right answer -- the industry realized that it was choking on unsold inventory, and the business model has changed. The trend now is for smaller production runs which tend to sell out fairly quickly. Most retailers won't order more than a dozen or so for stock, and then only the big ones.

I don't think it's true that they're not doing reruns though, at least in HO scale. I often see them announced in the hobby press. And while the supply chain is a little fouled up at the moment, things are still being manufactured in China and shipped to the US.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Best bet is probably train shows/swap meets. 
often you’ll find things in “like new” condition, meaning they’ve put in hours of ops but are otherwise new looking. Typically below original MSRP. You can also inspect things first hand, unlike ebay. The down side of course is train shows have maybe 400 vendors. But depending on the area you live in, you might have 2 or 3 shows in different directions, which different vendors attending. 
Another benefit is vendors are usually willing to negotiate on price if you’re buying several items from them. I.e. a $70 loco, 3 freight cars at $10 each and a structure for $15, they might agree to $100 for it all if you ask. 
As far as ebay, which I admittedly don’t use, I think the only deals are from combining shipping.


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Ebay can be a bottomless pit, its hard to pick up any loco for less than $100 then there`s shipping. Pass on anything out of the US because of duty and taxes. Any quality rolling stock is $30-50 + +. 
I did manage to pick up a Life like Canadian Pacific Alco off eBay this morning for $92 including shipping.
Am happy with that but double the price of what I paid for a Life Like loco 15 years ago.
Not much in the way of shows or swap meets around here so far, hopefully they start to open up soon.


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## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for replies. I figured that there was some change in the sales model (plus most likely the pandemic effects) in the last few years. I guess I will have to get some used locos. There is a show in the near by town in April but unfortunately, I will be away that weekend. Next one is in May.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

You might check with a local hobby shop to order a Broadway Limited NW2 or SW7. Walthers shows several in stock from their latest run. You can order directly from them also. They are DCC with sound but run on DC also. 

I like BLI locomotives (I have six) but I have seen some mixed reports on line of them having quality control problems. I rate them just a small notch below Kato for my preferences, based on my experience with them.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Don't forget, Life-Like produced a butt-load of SW-8 & SW-9/1200 switching locos too. These were extremely well detailed and well-running locos, albeit straight DC. I have several in the 'proper' road name.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Realize the whole world has changed in the last 10 or even 5 years, so to live comfortably in today's world one has to change with it. Gone are the days of getting in the car and driving to brick and mortar mom and pop hobby stores, shopping centers, and even malls, wandering aisles of products you can see and touch. Now shopping is done sitting in front of a computer, from a few mega distribution warehouses and your purchases are delivered to you in a few days. Even a small box that sits on a shelf in the warehouse is costing a great deal of money, so short time turnover is key.
Manufacturers especially small niche product producers have to work with that business model or fail. Also it's a price driven market, margins have to be trimmed to the bare bone. China being the world's high volume low labor costs manufacturing center is very smart knowing they have the manufacturers by the short hairs. If a company wants to have a new item produced they need to provide the tooling (to the Chinese specifications to fit their machines or pay another company in China to produce the tooling, However once the company turns over the tooling, China then OWNS that tooling from that point on. No longer can the company pick up the tooling they paid for and take it someplace else to make another run if it sells well, they have to re contract with China to make another run at the Chinese dictated second run price and time frame.
That said, if you want new, be prepared to buy it if and when a new production reaches market, or buy from a secondary liquidation, pre-owned or used market. If you also want a specific road name, that narrows the market significantly. If the loco you want was not originally offered in the road name you want you are going to need to be proficient at repainting or pay the sometimes very high prices to have a quality repaint done. If you are operating a DCC layout and the desired loco was only offered in DC then you are looking at another added expense and skill set. The smaller the loco the more difficult it is likely to be to convert.
In N scale the manufacturers have helped a little bit in that all but the largest locos will navigate a 9.5" radius curve, the smallest practical radius for US prototype rolling stock.
As already mentioned in N scale you have a comprehensive encyclopedia of all the US prototype locomotives, ever sold and the good and bad of each to save you from buying a piece of junk that never did and never will work satisfactory: www.spookshow.com He also tells you how easy or difficult it will be to convert the DC version to DCC. The year of manufacture will give a clue as t how likely you are to find a new version for sale.
Use the tools available: ebay allows you to save a search for a specific product and will send you an email every/any time a matching listing is posted. (assuming you have registered for an account).


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I disagree on one point. There are plenty of hobby shops, some mom & pop, and I think people still prefer that if they have any choice. Not all hobby shops carry trains though; there are tons of R/C hobby shops. The ones mostly likely to survive have a wide diversity. Table top gaming is HUGE revenue. Model rockets are a certain seller for school district Science classes… but only once per year. Doll houses and die cast cars are also major revenue generators. Shops that are military models only, or R/C cars only won’t do well long term by comparison. While they do all have to compete with online retailers, they have inherent advantages online retailers cannot contend with. True that shopping malls are disappearing, but shopping centers…. Which I interpret as strip malls, are on the rise not decline.

One of the problems hobby shops face is distributor demands. It’s not exclusive to this hobby. For example, Testors paint is being sold in fewer places not because of supply chain issues, but due to ridiculous distributor minimum amounts being so high it’s not worth carrying the products at all. They cannot sell 2,000 bottles of Grabber Blue i.e.
A similar tactic employed by DC Comics (batman, superman, etc) has nearly made that company go bankrupt (combined with wokeness crap nobody wants to buy). Stores simply stopped carrying their products.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I think this is a pretty accurate assessment of the market for N scale stuff. In the 1990s I bought a few N scale locos and rolling stock locally and by mail order from ads. In the 2000 to 2007 period I bought many Kato locos on ebay. Then I quit buying. Still using that stuff, DC. Recently I sold a good chunk of it, and still have ten passenger trains or more , freight cars in boxes, locos (Kato and atlas) in boxes. Ebay prices are now about double or more, but ebay is the most likely market to yield what you want, if you have the patience and persistence to find it, probably from clowns like me getting rid of the stuff they will never be able to use, or from people selling stuff clowns like me have left to them in estates. A lot of the ebay stuff is good stuff coming from estate sales. I never realized how much money I must have spent on this train stuff. I recently bought a few light kits for Kato passenger cars, but I am done spending. A DC layout will be good enough for me. I have been a computer programmer and don't really want to program trains. Too much like work.


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## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

It does look like the market has changed. Though 7 or 9 years ago when I made my last n-gauge purchase I was mostly buying online anyway. I just liked it a lot better when I could go on a hobby store's website, browse the products and just add to cart. Don't like the current approach where you have to sign up for something that will be released few months from now. I know I can buy used but that shouldn't be the only option if you need something soon enough. I do see it discouraging for lots of newcomers. OK, I will stop complaining.  Need to think about the time period for my layout and figure out logistics of getting a suitable loco and rolling stock.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I do understand the modern “build to order” mentality, it’s sensible. 
And I already made clear my preference for brick & mortar stores over online… That’s just a preference though. In my youthful days I worked at the LHS… which had a coffee pot. Saturdays was always fun because it was a constant flow of regular customers coming in to see what was new, get a free coffee or two, and shoot the breeze. It was like Cheers.

I’m not wild about the modern prices. Athearn Genesis is understandable, but assembled blue box stuff for $30? I hate to sound like Spikre (where ever he is these days) but I miss Proto 2000 for $89.99 brand new, and freight cars at $6.
Which is probably why I do most of my purchases at train shows now. Not only do the prices reflect those I miss, but there is the element of “the hunt.” 
Knock on wood that I’ve got years left so I’m in no rush. For me it’s more about the journey than the destination. And trains are not even my #1 priority. Over the next 10-12 years I’ll be systematically renovating 50-60% of my home down to the studs, tearing out floors, etc adding an outdoor living space that is nearly the same size as my roofed house… And maybe a small pool. So trains are priority #3 for me.


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## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

I do try to support local business as much as I can but in my area there were never any hobby stores with lots of train stock (aside from Lionel). For my RC stuff I always go to the LBH but he carries tons of stuff and has pretty much everything in stock. So we buy new cars, service them there and buy parts from him. It is also convenient for me as the LHS is just one town over so I do not have to wait for shipping. But the truth is that if I had to be on a waiting list for months for i.e. RC crawler, I wouldn't be in the hobby.


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## Silverexpress (Feb 17, 2020)

Here in SE Michigan we have a hobby store who's owner likes to attend estate sales. Here is his latest haul....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

ScenicsRme called it: to live comfortably in the modern world, you have to adapt to it. Kvetching about the "good old days' won't bring them back.


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## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

Silverexpress said:


> Here in SE Michigan we have a hobby store who's owner likes to attend estate sales. Here is his latest haul....


Is that great lakes hobby by any chance?


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## Silverexpress (Feb 17, 2020)

Oomowmow said:


> Is that great lakes hobby by any chance?


Yep


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## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

Silverexpress said:


> Yep


That's a great place for used rolling stock and all things n scale. I was just there a few days ago!


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## Silverexpress (Feb 17, 2020)

Oomowmow said:


> That's a great place for used rolling stock and all things n scale. I was just there a few days ago!


Found a Kato NW2 in with the LL SW's...$59.99. It was brand spanking new!


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## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

Silverexpress said:


> Found a Kato NW2 in with the LL SW's...$59.99. It was brand spanking new!


That's great!


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Silverexpress said:


> Here in SE Michigan we have a hobby store who's owner likes to attend estate sales. Here is his latest haul....


Your latest haul? You bought all of those locos?! Tom must’ve done back flips!


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

I talked with the owner of our local hobby store and they are not getting anything in like they use to. He asked the warehouse guy for more short line locomotives and he concluded his inventory is better than the warehouse inventory. Not much is coming in from anywhere (except North Caroline manifacture Lionel) and the hobby store know it. They have market up and sold off a lot of overseas high demand locomotives. 
But a lot of us train buffs from a decade ago have a bunch of good stuff and we are dying off. I've seen a lot of brothers and sisters at the train show, selling off Dad collection. I see the local hobby show buying collections from private sellers too. It's very sad what is happening to our once robust bussling economy. So glad I have what I have.


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## Silverexpress (Feb 17, 2020)

OilValleyRy said:


> Your latest haul? You bought all of those locos?! Tom must’ve done back flips!


I wish. Picked up two RS-1's, a GP-15, and a coffee grinding VO-1000- wish I had consulted Spookshow's database on that one before buying it on impulse.

Got to stay out of that place.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Silverexpress said:


> I wish. Picked up two RS-1's, a GP-15, and a coffee grinding VO-1000- wish I had consulted Spookshow's database on that one before buying it on impulse.
> 
> Got to stay out of that place.


Yeah I figured out that I misunderstood. My best friend works there, I texted her about any big N scale sales but none that she knew of. You can guess who I mean I’m sure; the taller of the two. I’m not local anymore but used to live near Partridge Creek. Not being so close now is somewhat thankful/regretful. I’d end up there just out of boredom and end up spending $75.
As for that Baldwin… if re-powering is not as practical as it is in HO, and cannot be corrected, it’ll at least look good gutted and lashed up as part of a two unit yard switching pair.


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## Silverexpress (Feb 17, 2020)

Oh man! Are you telling me I 've got to buy another VO-1000??? Lol. Always looking for excuses...


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

If you got a coffee grinder N scale Atlas diesel loco, if you look thru Spook's reviews you'll find a fix for them depending on if they have the hex nut or the ball style driveshaft connection. It's just a simple adjustment.


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