# Floral Foam as Option to Pink-Stuff Foam ?



## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

Yeah I know people my age who think are considered a threat by the younger generation Any where was I?? Oh, I have been doing research, and took a close look at floral foam!! you can buy it in bricks up to 2 ft wide 3 ft long and 4-6 inches thick.It is a closed cell foam just like that stuff produced in sheets by dow and corning. but if look closely far better for our hobby porpose. so I am on the hunt for this in sheets, 2-4 inch 4x8 or 2 foot x 8 ft. I have learned that apparently none is manufactured in the us, mainly china, or india,and then sent here to cutters and re- packagers for sale. I am waiting for replies from several of these companies, to see what is available and at what cost. I will update as info is sent to me. There has to be a better way or something better out there that doesnt cost an arm or a leg


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Intriguing hunt. Keep us posted on your findings.

(I hope you don't mind, but I've edited the thread title for clarity.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

The green stuff florist use is kinda crumbly IIRC.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Let me try to explain why floral foam is a completely bad idea!
It's composition is made so that it can break down very easy, super soft and as JackC put it turns to powder when working with it!
It will dent, depress, and conform to the slightest pressure, just lean on it and you've got a dent.
Mast glues do not stick to it!
OK now for the killer!!! It absorbs water like nobody's business! Try plastering over it and it will just absorb the water from the plaster and keep the plaster from setting! Can you say super mess!
Let's say you do get the plaster or whatever covering over it to dry, As the humidity rises and falls your super sponge will absorb the moisture from the air and release it onto all adjoining materials.
Let's not even get into the mold factory you will have growing under your plaster!
"Doc what killed him?" "Well I'm pretty sure it was the moldy layout"
Can you say bad Idea!


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

*floral foam as option to pink stuff*

:thumbsup:Hey Rekker: dont mind at all, if you guys see something needs correction, go for it. I have a lot of time on hands as you guys can tell, so figured instead of sittin round pickin nose and windin watch, i would do research ya know. keeps me off streets and out of troubleIf youguys aint interested just say so hope im not a bother I am also looking at CERTI FOAM, made by johns mannville best can tell, apparently like the other outlets are few and far between. I just dont get it, the building industry is moving along here in ok cntry, and out west, and they are pushing green and newer tech in building materials,but such is scarce in our world, maybe i am a dinosaur my concept is ,if its out there i want it:thumbsup: Till i got into this hobby, i really didnt know just how scarce and exspensive simple items were that are used in model r&r! Oh well like said keeps my simple mind working and out of trouble every body have a beautiful day :thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sean, etc.

When it comes to water absorbtion, material softness (dents), etc., is there a difference between the white stuff and the green stuff? Per Michaels ...

http://michaels.com/STYROFOAM™/products-floral-accessories-styrofoam,default,sc.html

TJ


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

*floral foam as opyion to pink stuff*

Good morning NIMT: didnt figure too many on this time of day as figured most had jobs not retarded as my grnd son says Hope your doing well? Any way what i was going by and called my local florist,there is some new stuff out, that is slick feeling and has consistency of the pink stuff, she says can be painted as i was going to do any way so it would be sealed. as of yet she hasnt been able to locate it in the sheets. but is looking for me.she says not as crumbly as the original stuf, so just repeating there. But thought what the heck as time is my partner now, would take a shot, at looking, dont cost me any thing, and just maybe might be something new out there, to benefit us in this hobby. and as always,i am looking on the cheap side of cheap:laugh: and as always, i am most happy to hear from every one what they have experienced and learned i benefit from that immensley:thumbsup:Hey have a great day up there, not meaning to rub it in but we are looking at sunshine and 83 here today in the boonies of oklahoma:thumbsup:


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

sorry TJ didnt mean to call you rekkers


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

gandy dancer#1 said:


> sorry TJ didnt mean to call you rekkers


That right there is gonna cost ya.....

Not a problem, I didn't know there was a new,improved version out there.
I'm always amazed at how these guys find new uses for stuff to be used on layouts. Fighterpilots recent water tower is just one.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

TJ and all,
Yes those two Styrofoams are the same, Those types do not absorb water, But they are different make up from the normal White sheet Styrofoam that breaks up into a bunch of beads, it's a closed cell like the Pink and Blue types, just not as dense.
I think this is the type that gandy dancer#1 is looking at.
This is not the normal Green floral foam...Give me a little bit and I will show pics of some different types of foam...Yea I have all of them here!


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

NIMT said:


> Let me try to explain why floral foam is a completely bad idea!


Not sure I buy that NIMT, this expert modeller uses floral foam all over his layout and he has vast experience with model railroading. Here's just one scene of many where he uses it - this guy is no newbie.


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## BraytoChicago (Feb 8, 2011)

xrunner said:


> Not sure I buy that NIMT, this expert modeller uses floral foam all over his layout and he has vast experience with model railroading. Here's just one scene of many where he uses it - this guy is no newbie.


Well, I gotta say, that was one hell of an anticlimactic video  

If the issue is that you can't get your hands on the pink stuff, have you thought about working with the white bubbly stuff but using a hot wire? I tried one on the pink stuff and proceeding to break the thing in 5 minutes (true story). But I've seen people use them on the white stuff with great success ...and no white bubbles stuck to your pets.

And of course, there is the plaster method too. another alternative to the pink stuff.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

BraytoChicago said:


> Well, I gotta say, that was one hell of an anticlimactic video


What did you expect Bray - it's a dude working with foam on his scenery. It ain't a production by Steven Spielberg.


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

*Floral foam as option to the pink stuff*

Hey x runner thanks for the video: Here is what i have learned on floral foam. The big sheet he was cutting from, that as big as can get in US>:thumbsd The newr stuff has a finish on it almost like a sealer water cant penetrate, but is paintable. easilycut very little crumble. No one in us makes it, all comes from india and china:thumbsdown: Was told if could order from over there, in sheets would be cheap 3 or 4 bucks per dheet, but shipping would avg 50 bucks per sheet go figure. i plan on using floral for tunnels mountains ect.easy to work with and cost effective. Now i am still searching and slowly loosing battle on foam for the base I may have to pitch in towel and just paint my mdf and model from there, I cant believe what us gets for product made here, its just cheap a** foam board as stated in previous posts, what relly sets my pants on fire, is people can bythe 2 inch in other states avg 12-16 bucks a sheet, all day long. in the boonies of OK 23-25 per sheet plus shipping, minimum order 48 sheets whats reallybad got quoted from 25- 45 per sheet at 5 different home depots in OK city


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## Rangerover (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't get it, where's the river? What's it look like when it's done? 

As far as Gandy Dancer's inquiry and his exploration for foam in his area, I understand it's hard to come by or non-existent from his posts on previous threads. There are other materials that can be used. I used plywood nailed, glued and screwed to my frame and homasote glued to the plywood for my road bed. I only used homasote for my road bed cut 2" wide and beveled 45 deg, quite similar to the dimension of EZ track and general appearance I didn't cover the entire layout with homasote I used the 1/2" pink or blue foam for mountains, some 2' high or uneven terrain, in the valley's. Now I know that there will be some who will say the plywood and or homasote will swell and shrink, mine hasn't moved and it's been up for the better part of 6 years, approx 170 square ft. I live in the mountains of West Virginia, and it's humid in the summer and winter at times with temps in the med 90's to below zero in the winter at times. The reason I used it is from prior layouts that I built 30-50 years ago, and never had a problem even back then, "if it works don't fix it", I always said. Homasote is expensive about $24.00 per 4x8 sheet, but so is plywood, and the pink or blue foam 2" thick is about the same price here in WV. The other thing I like about homasote is, the trains run very quiet, so I don't have to turn the volume up on my sound loco's. But I understand that the foam is quiet too!

The other alternative that's been proven for years of course is plywood with cork roadbed, my dad back in the 40's-50's used it. I know too that as a carpenter, I had on occasion used styrofoam to build floating docks on lakes, and it does get waterlogged to a certain extent, that foam too was compressed to the density of what the pink and blue foam recommended for layout building, and not the bead type, but you could get the bead type 2'x2'x4' blocks that were the cheaper bead type, but I never used it, because that really gets water logged to the extent of sinking.

I personally know of no other alternatives that's been proven or good for layout building. If there is please enlighten me! Jim


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Rangerover said:


> I don't get it, where's the river? What's it look like when it's done?


It's a very long and extremely educational video series. This guy has a whole lot of video tutorials on his You Tube page. I only posted part 5 to show that he uses floral foam a lot. This series is over 50 videos!

Here's Part 1 






and here's his main you tube page -

http://www.youtube.com/user/thebige61?feature=watch

I highly recommend looking at his videos.


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

*Floral foam as option to the pink stuff*

TO X RUNNER: Talked to young man at the north 820 loop home depot in fort worth, he quoted me 13.28 per sheet 2" x 4' x 8' on the pink:laugh: said they stocked it all the time, called HD in wichita falls just west of you guys and got quote 45 per and minimum order aint that a kick in the head. its what maybe a 100 miles dependingon which side of ft worth you live to the falls????? at denton, texas 1/2 inch all that available 3/4 is special order san antonio way south 4 inch available 23.00 per sheet in stock reckon they found a cheap source south of the border


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Gandy, cork road bed has worked for years on top of ply. Maybe just homasote on top of your MDF or homasote _and_ cork.
NIMT has a excellant video on making mountains using screening. Guess cardboard strips and/or screening will work for tunnels.
Best solutions I can come up with right now..


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## Rangerover (Feb 8, 2012)

Hey thanks XRUNNER, I book marked it and I will watch his video's, always eager to learn something different, still am capable of learning at 68, only wish I could remember what that guy told me 2 days ago, LOL. Jim


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

All I can say is that it does absorb water because that was what it was designed to do!
But hey this guy's an expert so it must be right!!! Thanks Xrunner
I have been schooled again!
Oh and if you look at my how to write up on Mountain building (Here), the word foam is never mentioned in the materials used list!


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## BraytoChicago (Feb 8, 2011)

xrunner said:


> What did you expect Bray - it's a dude working with foam on his scenery. It ain't a production by Steven Spielberg.


Keep your hair on! It was just a passing comment. To answer your question, I expected to see a guy "building a river scene."


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## Rangerover (Feb 8, 2012)

Jack just homasote on the frame won't work, you still need the support of the plywood. Homasote is rugged and have used it outdoors with no paint or finish but it does warp if not supported. It has an insulating factor and good for hog pens, chicken coops and such. We use it at a rifle range I shoot at and if not for getting all shot up after thousands of rounds, it holds up quite well as far as weather. Good for model RRing too!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

BraytoChicago said:


> Keep your hair on!


:laugh::laugh::laugh: That's funny, Xrunner is as bald as a cue ball!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

BraytoChicago said:


> Keep your hair on! It was just a passing comment. To answer your question, I expected to see a guy "building a river scene."


Then your expectation was answered, because that's exactly what he's doing. :thumbsup:



NIMT said:


> :laugh::laugh::laugh: That's funny, Xrunner is as bald as a cue ball!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your DCC controller. :appl:


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Gandy don't worry about the young whippersnappers out there as they tend to fall by the wayside for not listening to their elders. Go look around your town and see if there isn't something in a dumpster where they are building something or remodeling. You can use ceiling tiles for building up some mountains or some hills or look at the beginning of my thread "Bonita Grand Central" to see how I built a tunnel/mountain out of card board strips,some old window screen and some drywall mud. It worked really well and was very strong. I did remove the tunnel/mountain after awhile because it took up too much room but it was a real solid piece of work. Also the only thing you may have to buy is the drywall muda dn that will cost ya about $10 for a pail of it that will last a good long time. Drys fast too unlike plaster and is a lot less messy. If it cracks then make the crack a river or a stream or just a place where water ran down the hill.
I think I made a video of that project so I'll try to find it and post a link for you. Pete
Here is the video. I built the whole layout right on the plywood table top and didn't have any problems with that. I don't really see the reason to put down foam first to start with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIOmoURoF3g


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

xrunner said:


> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your DCC controller.


Fleas....NOOOOOOOO I've got 5 dogs and a Wolf....Flea is a four letter word around here!


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

*Floral foam as an otion to the pink stuff*

Evening NORGALE: Being in my early sixties i am past younger ones upsetting me, and have a hide like an old buffalo:thumbsup: I live in a small rural community less than a hundred counting dogs, cats, possums, and a few skunks:laugh: not much building going on here since the twenties any way wanted to use fairly thick foam board so could contour and landscape , i am using 5/8 mdf 4x8 sitting on 1x2 runners width of board on fold up tables like you see in a school cafeteria, was what had on hand:thumbsup: board set up in L pattern. I looked at making tunnels from wire and paper mache but have 4 yr old grandson and usin wet stuff not quite his forte, and he has his tool box and wants to build stuff from solid stuff i have been showing him the videos and one where a guy was laying up using plaster cloth and he said paw that looks crappy were not doing that on my train:laugh: so i will use the floral foam for hills tunnels ect, and will back up and punt on the other as cant get my buddy TULSA FLYER to commit to a sit in at home depot or lowes


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

NORGALE VIEWED VIDEO"HATS OFF TO YOU" and i do like your tunnels solidly built!! we are in ho scale so dont need any that big, but will show grandson and discuss.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gandy dancer#1 said:


> Hey x runner thanks for the video: Here is what i have learned on floral foam. The big sheet he was cutting from, that as big as can get in US


The guy in the video (Evert is his name) uses both the pink foam boards and the floral foam. If you watch all of his videos you will see he is a master craftsman - he even builds his own turnouts from scratch!

He uses the pink foam for the much larger areas such as mountains which only need to be carved to a rough surface. He uses the floral foam for smaller, more exacting carving and slicing. If you watch the video series you can see that the floral foam is very easily shaped and frequently he uses a cast stone to rub out the area it's going to sit in - this can't be done like that with the pink foam. Both foams have their uses and I plan on using both to their individual advantages.


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

Hey X RUNNER glad you posted vids on this guy,i am in process of watching and taking note thanks. I am thinking if cant get thefoam i want, i can buy runners of grasses at garden ridge and other materials that are better looking than the high dollar train stuff. If you have a garden ridge in your area i suggest go there to their floral dept in back be amazed at what you can get for train scenery in bags cheap cheap cheap!!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Well I see what you mean about Mountain Park. I don't even see a McDonalds there. However there are some really big farms there. What do they grow? How about Snyder? Nothing there either? Looks like two really laid back ,peaceful towns to live in flat out in the middle of nowhere. Nice. pete


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

Snyder 4 mi south, mainly wheat farming cattle and a little cotton. most of cotton is to the west of altus, my grnddad farmed wheat in harmon cnty and cattle. and grt grnd dad founded McQueen store westof duke in the 1910's yeo we are small in the boonies wife works on miltary base 38 miles east at lawton. it has been peacefull, but afraid the druggies are starting to get hold here as no law enforcement.


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