# Gun Blue metal dye



## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

A couple of you have mentioned using "gun blue" to dye metal parts a blackish-blue. I think Stillakid Jim used *Vans Gun Blue*, and SkyArcher had a thread showing how he used *Birchwood Casey Super Blue *on a prewar truck.

I have an prewar Lionel Jr motor ... I'd like to make the motor "cheek" plates (side of the motor itself) look more presentable, and I like the idea of a metal dye, rather than a paint. 

My question ...

Any pros or cons to either of these brands?

I see that Birchwood Casey offers a "Perma Blue" product, but also a "Super Blue" product ... I think (???) the latter is a darker blue/black?

Any direction / choices / tips would be appreciated.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> A couple of you have mentioned using "gun blue" to dye metal parts a blackish-blue. I think Stillakid Jim used *Vans Gun Blue*, and SkyArcher had a thread showing how he used *Birchwood Casey Super Blue *on a prewar truck.
> 
> I have an prewar Lionel Jr motor ... I'd like to make the motor "cheek" plates (side of the motor itself) look more presentable, and I like the idea of a metal dye, rather than a paint.
> 
> My question ...
> 
> Any pros or cons to either of these brands?
> 
> I see that Birchwood Casey offers a "Perma Blue" product, but also a "Super Blue" product ... I think (???) the latter is a darker blue/black?
> 
> Any direction / choices / tips would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


TJ, the perfectionist Tin Man.:thumbsup:

Did you ever read anything about the "bluing" process?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_%28steel%29


for your reading enjoyment,
http://www.finishing.com/78/92.shtml


utube?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNrX9LFzjUU


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think you may want to reconsider bluing. I'm pretty sure that you'll have higher surface resistance, so the contact to the rails won't be that good.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I think you may want to reconsider bluing. I'm pretty sure that you'll have higher surface resistance, so the contact to the rails won't be that good.



 He wants to do the sides of the engine?  I think.

The sides don't contact the rail. Do they?


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## tjcruiser

Ed -- thanks for the links. I'll have a read-up tomorrow. I know essentially nothing about blueing metal. And what little I do is only through having it mentioned a couple of times here on the forum. Seems like a good option as compared to paint, though.

John -- I'm not planning on doing the wheels. I hope to do the side plates of my prewar Lionel motor casing. The bottom half of the motor shows below the frame of the loco shell, and I'd like to spruce it up a bit.

Also, for future tinplate car projects, I think the gun blue will work well to clean up prewar tinplate freight car trucks. SkyArcher used it on a set of his trucks, and they came out looking great.

Thanks guys,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

Cold Blue isn't all that rust resistant, it depends on you keeping the surfaces dry and oiled. I have a gun safe full of proof of that fact.


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## tjcruiser

I just ordered a small bottle of Birchwood Casey "Super Blue" ... $8.27 from Amazon with free shipping.

I don't know how this compares to Van's Gun Blue ... I went with the Birchwood simply because it was a few dollars cheaper.

I'll post some application and results results in my 1688 thread when the blue arrives.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

Remember that the surface must be VERY clean and totally free from any residue in order for bluing to properly take. I'd consider trying a test piece first to see if you like the results.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks.

Would the original Lionel blackened metal finish (not paint) fall into the "residue" category?

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

You need to have BARE METAL for bluing to work, no other finish on it. The blackened finish is probably some sort of process like bluing, and will surely screw up the process.


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## tjcruiser

John,

Thanks for the advice ... good to know. I'll try a small, inconspicuous spot to see what happens.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'm by no means an expert, but I've blued some gun parts for repairs. I've tried a number of the cold blue products with similar results. My best results were with new parts that had to be blued, touchups sometimes work, sometimes are spotty.


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## SkyArcher

TJ, All you can do is try it. The gun blue dye works differently on different surfaces/metals. Just make sure that your parts are clean and dry. After I blued my parts, I wiped them down with a little mineral oil and that brought out the gloss. You could also try a little Pledge as well.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Sky. The Super Blue is on its way, and I'm anxious to give it a shot on the motor frame. It's not a "showy" piece of the loco, so I don't mind experimenting / learning through trial and error a bit here. I was very intrigued with the gun blue work that you and Stillakid did, though, so I'm excited to give it a shot.

Thanks!

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Guys,

I tried the Birchwood Casey Super Blue on my 1688 motor cheeks. I'm rather happy with the results and ease of application. Details here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=56197&postcount=19

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

Note that you completely stripped the metal before the application, that's the key to getting good results with most bluing products. The engine does look great, almost brand new.


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## tjcruiser

John,

I wasn't going to, at first. But it was your "heads up" from above that made me think I'd better Dremel strip the cheeks, first. Good call. I don't know how much difference it actually made, but it only took a couple of minutes per side to Dremel brush the original black finish to bare metal.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'm betting if you try it with the original finish in place, it won't look nearly as good. The bluing has to react with the steel.

Here's one of many threads in a gun forum about cold bluing. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=71632


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> John,
> 
> I wasn't going to, at first. But it was your "heads up" from above that made me think I'd better Dremel strip the cheeks, first. Good call. I don't know how much difference it actually made, but it only took a couple of minutes per side to Dremel brush the original black finish to bare metal.
> 
> TJ


Do you think if you did it one more time with the blue it would make a difference?
Without the dremal, just the blue.

Though it looks great now, do you think it would look better or just the same??


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## tjcruiser

Ed, I suspect additional "coats" would slowly add to the level or "depth" of the darkness.

Overall, it was a pretty easy application process.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

The higher the gloss on the raw steel, the deeper the blue as a rule. Yes, additional coats will depen it.


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