# Hi from the new guy. Mind some basic (important to me) questions?



## TheSnake (3 mo ago)

Hello, all. Getting into the hobby in my mid-60's. It really helps me to directly ask questions rather than do a lengthy search that may not yield what I'm looking for; hope this is not a problem, as I'm sure I will be asking questions that have been answered many times before. My layout is about a 4'x8', and will eventually run 3 or 4 locomotives. Nothing big or too complicated.

Wiring track for DCC - do track sections need to be physically separated, or can the entire run of track be physically connected? Can you run a single power feed to the track, or must I run, say, power to 3 or 4 sections of the track (there will be some signal crossings, lights, turnouts, etc.)? What would a booster (upping power from 1 amp to 4 or 8 amps) do for me, if anything (like, allowing greater incline / grade of the track)?

Thanks for any info,

Mike


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Hi Mike. Keep your eyes peeled for a post from Traction Fan. He has compiled a series of basic instruction PDFs that will be a treasure for you. You came to the right forum with your questions...there are many here who will gladly offer answers and advice. Welcome to MTF.


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## TheSnake (3 mo ago)

Fire21 said:


> Hi Mike. Keep your eyes peeled for a post from Traction Fan. He has compiled a series of basic instruction PDFs that will be a treasure for you. You came to the right forum with your questions...there are many here who will gladly offer answers and advice. Welcome to MTF.


Thanks; I appreciate it. Mike


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Track can be physically connected, except in instances of reversing loops & wyes. Anywhere that polarity will flip rails will require a small gap or plastic insulator. Which of those to use depends on your heat & humidity swing. 
One other reason to physically gap sections is for circuit protection. Say a yard being physically separate and having DCC power through a separate breaker. If a short occurs in the yard, only the yard power shuts off via that little breaker. But on a 4x8 it isn’t worth that extra effort.

As for feeders; there may be different opinions on that. Obviously any physically isolated areas will need feeders. Supposing you have nothing like a reversing loop planned, I would say in your situation 3 sets of feeders minimum (one per loop), but 6 would be better (two per loop).


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Snake

There is nothing complicated about a DCC
track layout. The loco picks up it's power
from the 2 rails. In most instances, you connect
the track sections using metal joiners. You do
not separate the sections unless you have a 'reverse loop'.
Make sure the joiners are tight. A small layout such as you suggest
would need only a couple of track connections
from your DCC controller.

You DO NOT need to consider a 5 amp booster. You can
run 3 or 4 locos at the same time with the output of
any DCC controller. You WILL NEED a separate power
source for turnout controls, lights and signals. Many
of us use old DC power packs. You can also use
a discarded Wall Wart provided it has an output
of around 12 or so volts. Some makes of turnout
motors require DC current, some AC. The wall wart
you use should provide the current your turnouts
require. LED lights require DC, usually around 2 volts.
Every wall wart has a label showing it's current.

You should be aware that a 4 X 8 layout limits you
to smaller diesel locos and some small steamers. It is
usually best to provide a 5 X 8 platform. With that
you can have a curve radius of 22" or larger which
would be sufficient for bigger diesels and steamers.

The slope of your track has nothing to do with
power amperage. An HO loco will slip it's wheels when
attempting to go up a grade too steep or with too many
cars. The size of your layout will likely limit any level changes.


Don


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## TheSnake (3 mo ago)

Thank you, guys, for all the information. I know they are basic questions to you, but the answers are very helpful to me. I always try to keep what they call in martial arts, a "beginners mind" in the subjects I am knowledgeable of. I'll post pics (and more questions, I'm sure) as I progress with my setup. Mike


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## TheSnake (3 mo ago)

DonR said:


> Snake
> 
> There is nothing complicated about a DCC
> track layout. The loco picks up it's power
> ...


Don, thanks. Regarding needing a separate booster for turnouts, lights and signals, to control them in sync with the movement of the cars, how does said booster and wiring interface with the DCC controller for the cars? Does the DCC signal controlling the lights and turnouts pass thru the rails, or? Mike


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

TheSnake said:


> Don, thanks. Regarding needing a separate booster for turnouts, lights and signals, to control them in sync with the movement of the cars, how does said booster and wiring interface with the DCC controller for the cars? Does the DCC signal controlling the lights and turnouts pass thru the rails, or? Mike


There _are_ ways to use DCC to control them, there is also LCC (Layout Command Control (LCC) | Train Control Systems) which is specifically for layout control. I am going to plan to use a version of LCC for my specific layout.

With LCC you can wire up sensors to control things, signals are trivial, but I would suggest evaluating how you want turnouts to work, specifically. I visited a model train club last week that uses a centralized LCC controller with a dispatching computer that someone can sit at, but they also have physical switches wired in, so that you can override it on-track if needed. You'll definitely want to evaluate how you expect turnouts to work in your layout.

From an electrical-engineering standpoint, for my design I have 8 power "grids" (each grid has a power "source", such as a booster, etc.) to reduce the overall failure potential of the layout:


One DCC for the mainline and sidings
One DCC for the yard & diesel storage
One DCC for the programming track
Three DCC reversing-loops (controlled by individual reverse loop controllers)
One LCC signal/lights grid
One AC/DC grid for static lighting (buildings, etc.), this just has an on/off switch that I'll manually activate for the whole grid

As mentioned, using separate power and insulators for Mainline / Yards means that a short in one doesn't ruin the other. You don't _have_ to, but it's encouraged. I would suggest it, largely because in addition to the safety / failure protection, it reduces wear on electrical components as well (if you would like the explanation of how electronics theory applies, I'll happily provide, but it's a long explanation).

All of the DCC power grids can use one command module as a "source", then each booster would connect into the command module to provide the amperage / circuit protection for that grid. You can have as many drops onto track as you would like for one grid, just make sure they all come back to the same booster / power source for the grid, and then each booster goes back to the same command module.

Each reversing loop must be insulated and independently powered, as others have said. You can use automatic reverse-loop controllers or manual, both serve the same function, the difference is "how". Manual reverse loop controllers must be "flipped" the correct way on entry/exit, whereas automatic ones do it themselves. Additionally, each "grid" should be insulated from the next, though in some cases it may not be a requirement.

You didn't say what scale you're using, but from what I understand, HO loco's typically need around 1A, and N loco's need around 0.5A. That means that if HO, then 4 _active_ loco's would need around 4A (so a 5A booster is more than sufficient) and if N, then 4 loco's would need around 2A.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Ebrown has provided a very good explanation of
essentials for a larger more complex layout.

What you need is very simple. The DCC controller
connects to the track. The separate power source
is NOT connected or syncronized with the track or DCC controller.
Some like to have their turnouts controlled by
the DCC controller. The power connections
for that may be from the DCC track or the
separate power source, depending on the
turnout controls you select. These require
a stationary DCC decoder for each turnout.

If you have signals you can power them
thru the separate power source. There are occupancy
detectors that you can buy to control the
signals. Some of us control the signals with
tabs on the turnout motors or special turnout
control panel toggles. You also can buy DCC decoders
designed for controlling turnouts.

Don


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Actually there are stationary deciders that can handle up to 8 turnouts. I previously used mine with Peco solenoid machines and had route programmed them, fed by DCC track power.
But that is entirely optional. I didn’t need to do it; that prior layout was a U shape 8x9 feet. Everything was easily within reach.

I prefer manual fascia (front vertical edge) mounted turnout controls because of the interactivity of it. It’s engaging, like being the brakeman/conductor. It’s also much cheaper.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

One thing OilValley didn't mention about fascia controls, which is what I use, is that while you are busy fiddling with aligning turnouts with your DCC system, you can't control your locomotive, and trying to hop back and forth between the loco and stationary decoders. Fascia controls remove this conflict of interest, and make it much easier to have an indicator as to which way the turnout is aligned.

Not that it's wrong either way, but something to consider.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

TheSnake said:


> Regarding needing a separate booster for turnouts, lights and signals, to control them in sync with the movement of the cars, how does said booster and wiring interface with the DCC controller for the cars? Does the DCC signal controlling the lights and turnouts pass thru the rails, or?


i hope it's been made clear that while turnouts, lights and signals can be powered from DCC, they typically aren't. lights (as in building) would typically be power from a wall art. there are stationary decoders that can control turnouts and signals which can be powered from the track if not from a wall wart while using the DCC track connection to control them.

with stationary decoders, turnouts can be controlled from the controller used to control the loco, avoiding the need to build wire a control panels

signals can be driven in different way from simply showing how a turnout is thrown, using block detectors and additional logic to indicate CLEAR/STOP, connections between blocks and logic can allow CLEAR/APPROACH/STOP

LCC , which uses CAN bus technology to minimize latency between a large number (> 100) nodes), is overkill for a 4x8 layout

if a loco typically draws at most 0.75A, you can do the math to figure out what size (and number) of boosters you need. 

while a circuit breaker configured to trip at 2A may be safer than relying on a 5A booster shutting down when there is a 5A short, auto bulbs are a less expensive option. separate bulbs can be used to isolate the short


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