# I need some help



## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

Okay after too many years I am back to trains. I had HO as a boy 'cause that is what dad had. I am now starting all new with N scale. I have designed the layout (3 levels ). The board was built last Saturday. It is 3' x 7'. The sides are 5 1/2" high to provide the rigidness I need. I then laid a piece of 1" thick pink foam on the deck and painted the entire inside a dark green. I am now ready to start laying track. I have cork board that I need to attach first and then the track itself.

My current dillema is how do I attach the cork and track down while I lay it all out? I know I will have more questions as I go along but that is where I am stuck right now. I need the flexibility to be able to adjust the track as I lay it and move it along. Some of the risers will be foam slopes and some will be trussels over chasms and canyons.pictures as I go along.

Yes I will be taking pictures as I go along.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

For roughing out your layout, use the track itself, including FlexTrack sections, if you have any. Temporarily tape the track to your board, and fiddle with the positioning until you're generally satisfied.

Then, (via great gizmo tip from TwoRail here on the forum) use a rolling-stock car to make a little jig ... tape or tack-glue a little wood block (of sorts) to the side of the car with a marker taped vertically to that. You want to position the marker such that it's the same distance away from the rails as would be the outside edge of the cork bed. Then, use the car/marker jig to mark an outline of the cork bed position on your board. You'll likely only have to mark one side of the cord bed.

Now, pull up your (temporary) track. Glue the cork bed to the board ... hot glue usually works OK. You'll find that the typically cork that comes in left/right halves bends quite well to follow track curves. Glue one side of the cork down, a bit at a time, following your pre-marked edge line. After that's down, glue down the mating side, being careful to tuck and position it's inner/mating edge right next to the other half.

You can cut needed wedges and such out of the same insulation foam. However, check your local hobby store ... Woodland Scenics makes several sets of pre-cut wedge / ramps that are available in various incline grades.

Good luck!

TJ


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

What about pins? Can I use straight pins to secure the bed and track down? Do people normally glue the bed and track down? I would think that you would want to have a bit of flexibility to move track in the future. Maybe I am over thinking this. As I have mentioned I design control valves. I am always in an engineer mindset. The mechanical engineer type not train engineer. I have been trained (pun intended) to always look at things and see how to make them better. Because of that I sometimes have a hard time making things too permanent.

One of the reasons I have for not gluing the bed and track down is I don't plan on doing the scenery for a while. It could be several months or even years before I get that far. My first intent is get a layout running. I may after I have the train running decide to change a few things before I had scenery. If I glue everything down how hard is it to change. I also remember a few times where we had to change my dad's layout. He only had it nailed down to the plywood. So we could pull the nails and make the adjustments we needed.

I also forgot to mention that I am more of a traditionalist. I plan on making my wooden trussles. I also do not plan on converting to DCC.


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## BNSF Fan (Feb 27, 2010)

Welcome ElSimon. Will be waiting to see pics of your progress. For temporarily laying track and roadbed, you can use T-pins, I think they are called. You can find them at Wal-Mart in the sewing section, or any sewing store. They work great in the foam. As for laying the track and roadbed more permanetly, I used a cheap($1.79 a tube) vinyl latex caulk. Just outline the road bed when you have it where you want it then spread out the caulk with a putty knife. Again, use the pins to hold it while the caulk sets up. Then do the same for the track, but don't apply it so thick that the caulk pushes up to far between the ties. If you need to make a change afterward, it does come up easily enough using a putty knife to pry it up. Have fun.


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## Rocky Mountian (May 17, 2010)

*Those who wonder will find*

Good info, I was wondering how to go about that too.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good advice re: "T-pins" from N&O above.

Depending upon the tightness of your radii, you may find that the pins alone don't have enough lateral support to hold the cork bed in your desired contour. In that case, I'd suggest pins per the above, but the occasional dab of hot glue which will give you quick-bond grab, but can be generally easily pryed apart for track/bed relocation down the road. Little dabs will do ya'!

TJ


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

Bought some straight pins at Wally-World. I plan on spending some time on the layout this long weekend. I plan on using foam ramps between levels, similar to Woodland Scenics products. For the time being I will not have the cuts for future bridges. It should be easy enough to cut out the foam later and add the trussles.

Here are a couple more questions related the this thread:
1. What is the best way to cut track? I have a lot (45-50 lengths) of flex track.
2. Does anyone have plans or good/bad things that work/didn't on building trussles? I am planning on these being as realistic as possible so I would like to build these from scratch. What materials work best? What is the best way to cut the timbers? I have a full size contractors table saw but I think I would be cutting out more material than I would be leaving. I also would not have the control I think I need.
3. Tonight I finish prepping the table. Tomorrow the first track will go down! I will take pictures and post them. I get the feeling I am missing something. Does anyone have any ideas that will help me? OR things I need to watch out for.

El Simon


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*Cutters*

Considering the small scale you're working with, and likely using basswood/balsa, look for these at your LHS or Craft Store. Bought this at a close out sale for $12. Hope that helps
Jim

View attachment 3027


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View attachment 3029


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

Actually I was planning on using some pine I had left over from a larger project. I am looking for a small hobby table saw (small / thin blade, low rpm, better control, less waste). I have heard of them but don't remember seeing one. Will start looking on ebay, Harbour Freight, etc.

Stillakid, Do you use your cutter to cut your track? Is this what most models use?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

ElSimon,

I cut track with an abrasive wheel spinning on a Dremel. Works OK for me.

Try looking at MicroMark for small hobby-style table saws. I have their tilting saw ... works OK, though I've had to replace an electronic controller at one point. Not as precise for rip thickness tolerances as some other more expensive saws I've seen, but those typically do not tilt.

http://www.micromark.com/

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't know how high-tech you want to get, but $15 to $20 will usually get you a set of Xacto-type knives. There are several handles, one or more of which will take a fine saw blade. There are also small miterboxes that match them. If you want to go electric but still keep the cost down, you might want to check out table-top scroll saws.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

The cutteres are for working with wood.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Those look like nice cutters. How accurately does it cut the angles? Any crushing of the wood?


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Len, they do a nice job. I used them on my Oatmeal tower just to see how they handled. I really want to try and build a boxcar for my AF set, but think that might be for the fall. The LHS where I bought these had a stick built home(HO) made with using just these cutters and it was impressive. They were getting rid of all their stock of wood and cutters, said he didn't have enough customers intersested?????


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

So what does everyone else use to cut track and what do I need to do it after it is cut to prep the joints? I like the idea of the clickety clack sound but not the sound of a derailment. I had a Dremel type tool...but I also have sons. It was borrowed and the borrower claimed he returned it. That was only a couple of months ago. I guess I need to buy another one and possibly a soldering iron. There goes by budget for rolling stock.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nothing better then a nice cutter for clean cuts on N scale track.:thumbsup:
They do sell a rail cutting pliers like tool.


http://fiferhobbysu770.corecommerce.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=13935


This is a good seller I will vouch for him. I know him from a different site.
Do a search for the rail cutters and you will come up with a bunch of different brands.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Whether for cutting track or a billion other things ... ya' gotta get that Dremel back with a host of attachments. I use mine ALL the time working on these train things.

Give "Junior" a smack upside the head!  "But DAAADDDD!!!"

TJ


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

I have a real Dremel but the armature died after about a year of periodical use. I have kept it just in case.... Perhaps I will get it out in the morning and see what I can figure out with it. The replacement I bought at Harbour Freight. Not the highest quality but it has only been used a couple of times. My son borrowed it to work on his senior project. He just graduated with his Mechanical Engineer degree. I will ask him again tomorrow if he has found it yet. I may end up at HF and buy another one. They are only about $20.00.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

These Dremel repair tips may help ...

http://messageboard.dremel.com/Topic4517-28-1.aspx

Do you know for sure if the armature windings are bad? Maybe it's just the brushes, which can be easily replaced.

TJ

PS -- Link says "There is a 5 year warranty on Dremels."


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

Here are a few pictures. I have not attached the track yet. I WILL start that tomorrow, I hope. I need to get a few things from the hobby store in the morning if they are open.

I also am building a cheat guide. I have a piece of 3/16" plexiglass that I have drawn a 11.00 dia. circle on. I am going to cut it out and put a handle in the middle of it. I will use this to gauge the inside of the inside rail of a curve. This will give me the tightest radius I want and it will also make sure that the radii are smooth. I am using all flex track except the re-railers, turnouts and such.

Here is today's questions (I know these will bring LOTS of opinions):
1. How close to the outside of my layout board do I want the track?
2. In my side yards how close should I lay the track?
3. Should I put the re-railers at the beginning or tail end of the siding?
4. What type of uncoupler is recommended?

Thanks again for all the support.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

1. As close as you dare, taking into account children's hands and your tendency to run too fast and fly off the track. Adding a guard-rail is simpler than adding more surface area to your layout, so maximize your usage.
2. You have an argument here between maximizing usage and realism, so balance the two. See how far your widest car extends over the track on either side: that is the minimum operational footprint. Then ask yourself how much room a pair of yard-workers, walking side-by side, would require between tracks: to me, that's the minimum realistic footprint. Keep in mind that, once you add ballast and scenery, the eye has to be able to define the distance between your spurs as separating the two into distinct areas to make it look right.
3. I'd go with whichever location is easier for you to reach. In other words, which end is closer to the edge, so you don't have to stretch toward the center to access it?
4. No opinion to offer---I don't run your scale.

Best wishes!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ElSimon said:


> Here are a few pictures. I have not attached the track yet. I WILL start that tomorrow, I hope. I need to get a few things from the hobby store in the morning if they are open.
> 
> I also am building a cheat guide. I have a piece of 3/16" plexiglass that I have drawn a 11.00 dia. circle on. I am going to cut it out and put a handle in the middle of it. I will use this to gauge the inside of the inside rail of a curve. This will give me the tightest radius I want and it will also make sure that the radii are smooth. I am using all flex track except the re-railers, turnouts and such.
> 
> ...


#1 Reckers said that best.


#2 Thats called gauge.Gauge is the distance between the tracks. Normal track gauge is 4' 8 1/2" between the rails. So you can calculate to the gauge your modeling.

#3 re railers wouldn't do anything at the end of the siding?


#4 un-couplers look here > electromagnets? > http://www.aglasshalffull.org/article-uncouplers.html


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

Not sure why the pictures I posted are links but if you open them you will see where I am. 

I have sides on the board that will keep little hands from the track and trains. The openings have plexiglass in them so the grandkids can view the action but not touch it. My first question was how close to this vertical barrier should I go. I am thinking about 5/8" from the outside rail. This will give me plenty of room for the motors on my switches.

I am sorry, I didn't state my second question clear enough. What is the typical spacing between 2 parallel sets of tracks in a train yard?

As for the re-railers as I had started to lay track my son commented that it would be difficult to add cars at the end of the line on a siding if the re-railer was at the beginning of the siding. As I look at it now the only reason I can think of for adding a car at the end is if it is a caboose! I can manually put that one in place.

For uncouplers I would like to stay above board. My board is 1/2" thick plywood with 3/4" pink foam on top of that. I then have the cork road bed. That would be a lot of material to cut thru and look nice. I also have folding legs underneath which might pose a problem clearing the coils. I remember when growing up my father had two types of uncouplers. One was a rerailer that had a whiter insert that as you crossed over it it separated the couplers. If you stopped with the couplers over this piece and reversed the direction it would separate. If you continued to back up they would eventually reconnect after the rerailer. The other style he had was an insert that could be placed anywhere along the track that did the same thing. My dad's layout was HO, I am running N so I am new to what is available to me.

Still laying track but nothing is permanent...yet.

Thanks again for all the ideas.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Elsimon, let me offer a suggestion. Take your widest car and measure it's width. Then take a curved section of track and measure the width of your ties. Subtract the width of your ties from the width of the car. That tells you how much wider your car is than your ties, if there is a difference. Assuming there is, cut that measurement in half. The number you get is how much your car overhangs the track on the outside of your curves or straights. Since you don't want to be clipping your plexiglass, add another 1/8" or so: that should be your minimum distance between the outer edge of your ties (track) and the edge of your table.

Again, "Typical" spacing depends mostly on your needs: if you're short on space, realism goes out the window. If you have plenty of room, you have the opportunity to embelish your yard. If I had the room, I'd keep about 1.25" to 1.5" between spur lines. The reason is simple: fingers need to fit between to work the cars!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

When you say rerailers do you mean these?
I would place these around switches. 








Or do you mean this.....a rerailer ramp?
This can go anywhere as you don't install it you just use it. 
At least that's what I do.


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## ElSimon (May 26, 2010)

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on re-railers. I opted for the first option Big Ed lists.

Now I just need some more ideas for my uncouplers. Like I mentioned I do NOT think I can use the style that mounts thru the board. I need to find something that either mounts inline with the track or is an adder to the track itself.

Thanks


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ElSimon said:


> Thanks for all the help and suggestions on re-railers. I opted for the first option Big Ed lists.
> 
> Now I just need some more ideas for my uncouplers. Like I mentioned I do NOT think I can use the style that mounts thru the board. I need to find something that either mounts inline with the track or is an adder to the track itself.
> 
> Thanks


You can still pick up the other one as they are not that expensive. You don't attach it anywhere you can load your cars at most spots on your layout.

It makes it a lot easier, especially in N, just line it up and let the cars roll down onto the track. In stead of trying to eyeball them to see if they are on the rail.

I put the others around the switches as that's most likely where they will derail.


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