# Graham Farish N LMS Steam Freight Starter Train Set 370-025A



## pelmizzzz69 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hello,

I have Graham Farish N LMS Steam Freight Starter Train Set 370-025A on my layout, my question is 
Can the train be replaced by any other Hornby, Bachmann train or does it have to be Graham Farish?
Thank you in advance 

PS If you want you can see it here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMoi6Q6FYOI


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Not familiar with the brand that is now a part of
the Bachmann company. If it runs on regular 
DC or DCC then the locos of any N scale manufacturer
with that system should run on your tracks.

Don


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## pelmizzzz69 (Jan 10, 2012)

Mine has AC but I think it does not make a difference if I use just one loco?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Any loco should work just fine.


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## Shifty1 (Apr 2, 2015)

Yours is ac? Like the ho marklin brand? I would only run compatible brands for ac. Im assuming you aren't running dcc on your system? Finding a compatible ac, n scale counterpart is going to be tough.


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## pelmizzzz69 (Jan 10, 2012)

Please see attached photo - this is what I have and basically buyer is asking if he can run any other brand N scale locos on this track?
Thanks :dunno:


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The answer...yes and no.Being N scale,the track should accomodate ANY four axle diesels and/or smaller sized steamers like 0-6-0s and the likes.I can't tell what the curve radiuses are,but it seems too small a layout to accomodate the larger locos.

But then,being an AC powered set,you CAN'T run just ANY N scale locNLY AC powered engines can be used on this track as it is now.

However,all isn't lost...you could swap your AC power supply with a DC one.You'd then be able to use most any brands of N scale DC powered locos,ruling out your actual loco though.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Are you certain that the power ON THE TRACK is AC.

In your last post the pic showed a typical wall plug (walwart)
power supply which most often produces DC. It also
shows a Bachmann hand controller.

Look on the Wall plug device. There should be
a label that shows the OUTPUT voltage, amps
and whether AC or DC. We assume the INPUT voltage
to be approx. 240 AC.

Don


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## pelmizzzz69 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you all for answers.
PS on wall plug it says AC adaptor.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

It is sold as an AC powered set.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If the track voltage is AC now you would have to
get a DC power pack to replace the devices you
have. Then you could run any N scale locomotive
on your track. The track doesn't care whether you
give it AC or DC but the locos do.

There should be a good availability of used
power packs from people who have converted
to DCC power for their layouts.

How do you send this AC locomotive into backup mode?

Don


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## pelmizzzz69 (Jan 10, 2012)

DonR said:


> If the track voltage is AC now you would have to
> get a DC power pack to replace the devices you
> have. Then you could run any N scale locomotive
> on your track. The track doesn't care whether you
> ...


''AC locomotive into backup mode?'' sorry, do not know what you mean?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

On a DC track you reverse the electric polarity to reverse the
locomotive.

On 3 rail AC track (Lionel, Marx) you shut off the power, then
back on again. This operates an on board relay that sends reverse current
to the motor so the train can back up.

I was wondering how you made your train back up if your track
has AC current on it. Do you interrupt the power as on a Lionel train?

Don


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## pelmizzzz69 (Jan 10, 2012)

DonR said:


> On a DC track you reverse the electric polarity to reverse the
> locomotive.
> 
> On 3 rail AC track (Lionel, Marx) you shut off the power, then
> ...


there is a switch that you press and then it goes in reverse, you do not need to swith it off before switching in to reverse.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Very odd.

The Graham-Parrish info on line is very unclear.

The Bachmann G-P catalog lists a number of
train sets as DCC.

A Wikipedia posting about G-P makes one small
reference that remarked about a poor quality DC
motor.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but it sure looks to me
that unless it's DCC it is DC.

Usually Bachmann puts a label on the bottom of
locos stating DCC ON BOARD....or DCC READY.

If you have a volt/ohmeter put it on AC volts
with the power on and see what reading you get.
If it is 14 to 18 volts and does not vary when you
use the speed control you have DCC.

If it does vary when you use the speed control
it is in fact AC.

If you get no reading, switch the meter to DC and
repeat the above.

If you get a variable reading when you operate the
speed control the track is standard DC. If so any
N scale loco would run fine on it.

It is unlikely there will be any other N scale locos
that would run on AC unless they were DCC controlled.

Let us know what you find.

Don


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## pelmizzzz69 (Jan 10, 2012)

DonR said:


> Very odd.
> 
> The Graham-Parrish info on line is very unclear.
> 
> ...


Hi
I do not have voltmeter
Please see images of my controller attached
Their website just says controller and some of the forums I searched says AC and some DC.
Wall plug says AC, you can see on last picture in manual it says DC.
So who knows? hehe....:laugh::laugh:


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I feel certain, based on that Bachmann controller you picture that your track
is DC. The way a DC controller determines forward or reverse loco
motion is reversing the polarity of the track. That is apparently
what the forward reverse switch on the controller does. It cannot
do the same if it were AC.

I agree. The on line information on this make is very
limited. There are no direct statements regarding it's 
track power. 

I do notice that you have this train listed for sale in
our For Sale or Trade section. Since it is a UK style
train it should do well for you.

Don


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

Your Bachmann controller looks almost exactly like mine. I have a few Dapol models, also UK, and they run normal DC. Same in OO, I ran Hornby locomotives with a Bachmann DC controller. The track doesn't care what power goes into the power supply, it just cares about the voltage coming out and from your photos that would be DC.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Thank god we've got that sorted out!


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## Luke 221 (Feb 12, 2013)

Graham Farish N scale are DC powered trains. The majority of British trains whether they be Hornby, Dapol, Triang, Triang-Hornby, Graham Farish, Bachmann Branchline, they all run on DC. 

The older Dublo and Wrenn work on AC power.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*AC vs.DC*



pelmizzzz69 said:


> Mine has AC but I think it does not make a difference if I use just one loco?


 pelmizzz69;

An AC locomotive will not run on DC power. In fact it could be damaged by DC. Likewise a DC locomotive will not run on AC, again it could be damaged by AC. If your buyer wants to run a DC loco on the track in your set, then he would need to change the power pack,("controller") ,to one that supplies DC power to the rails. He won't be able to run your AC loco on the new DC power pack, but he could run any N-scale, DC, loco, regardless of brand, on your set's track. He could also pull the "Freight Wagons" & "Brake Van"{Britt.}/"Freight cars & caboose"{Yank} from your set. So, if your set actually is AC the track and cars would be usable on a DC powered layout, but not your AC locomotive.

All the preceding assumes that you are correct in saying that your present locomotive is AC powered. However, it's not.

The end view photo of your controller tells the story, albeit only in symbols, rather than words. The output to the track has a symbol that looks somewhat like this === but with the top line solid instead of dashes. That is the international symbol for DC. To the right is a different symbol that looks (vaguely) like an ocean wave, when seen from the side. It's called a "sine wave" and is the symbol for AC. 

Your set is DC.

It takes in AC "mains" {Britt.}/"house current" {Yank} power from the wall through the little black cube device. (rather deceptively labeled an "AC adapter." It is, and it isn't, depending on technical definitions I doubt you care about.)
Inside the gray power pack (or "controller") The incoming AC is converted to DC, and sent out to the rails, and into your DC locomotive.

Since your set is DC, any N-scale DC locomotive (including, of course, your own) will run on your set. The printed verbal information on the black cube "AC adapter", and the gray "controller" is very skimpy at best, and borders on deceiving in some areas. Small wonder that you were confused by it! 


good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

I have a fairly large collection of Graham Farish N scale equipment. I believe your set is actually DC powered by an AC adaptor/converter. Your household current is AC so the adaptor converts AC to DC to power the train.

If your track is two rail, you have DC. 

Any British protype N scale models will work with your set. There are many manufacturers like Dapol, Peco and Farish that are the main producers of British N gauge trains. 

Generally, most of the equipment uses the "Rapido" style coupler, which your set has...

Tom


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