# Life Support Lionel 520



## T-Man

This is about checking an engine to get it running. I purchased two today one without a shell Package deal. Both old and dirty. Engine one ran an inch. Two was quiet. Both are running now. I took pictures and will describe how I administered life support. I cleaned the motor and e unit. A fun time.


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## T-Man

*Shell*

The shell came off with one screw and I washed it with liquid soap and a plastic nail brush easy on the lettering. I had some oil spots on the inside and cleaned them with a Q tip and paint thinner. Both frames have rust spots so I will clean them up with a wire brush and dremel wheel and sandpaper. Then I will prime and paint.










engine two shown. The e unit s to the right. You can see the windings and the arm. I removed the backside to the motor and cleaned the gear and area with thinner. used Lithium grease for lubricant. I then cleaned the wheels of rust and cleaned hte center rollers. THe wheels spun easily for cleaning with the gear removed. Wire wheel on the dremel did the trick ,a little 400 grit sandpaper helped too. The gear was put back on.










A good underside picture. The left coupler is missing. The right is there.


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## T-Man

The frame came off with one special nut . With a 5/16 nut driver I removed the brushplate.










And saw this: dirt and the armature.









The whole armature came out making it easy to clean the surface
One side is original, one cleaned with and eraser and one cleaned with sandpaper.
yes the divit had to go, more sandpaper.










Q tip and thinner was used to remove the scum from the brushplate and motor area.
The top of the armature has the contact for the three windings. The copper surface (commutator)has grooves caused by the contact brushes. An eraser will clean it up but to get the grooves fine sandpaper 400 grit will do the trick.
]


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## T-Man

The e unit can be the trickiest. This is engine 2. One screw on the side and you can remove it. At this time I look inside the motor at the axles and remove any built up lint. This picture shows the drum contact. six fingers touch this to reverse the motor. I used the Q tip with thinner to clean and used a pencil eraser to clean up the copper. I had black spots so I had to make sure I removed it all. The fingers were staight and I left them alone. Use the metal claw to rotate the drum for cleaning.










Ths is engine one. Still dirty it worked.









A simple cleaning and both engines worked. Engine one has an issue with the e unit lever more on that later.
The frames need painting too. Hope you enjoyed this I did.


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## shaygetz

I likes...needs a pantograph though


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## T-Man

Repro are available. Rare to have the original.
How about anti aircraft?


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## shaygetz

Oh...so it did come originally with a pantograph...cool.:thumbsup: I thought is was issued as a boxcab.


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## T-Man

The prototype was made by GE and the car pulled ore cars in Chile.
The car didn't come lighted.

Painted today. Sanded rust and used the Q tip and thinner to clean it.










I went with a satin black and aluminum. Heat gun helps in this weather.








The rust spots showed on the aluminum. Black hides well.


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## T-Man

The engines are done for now. I need some parts. They both operate fine.











This is by no means a closed thread. Comments please. I covered a few recovery tips here.Some apply to motors in general. To date I have not been disappointed in purchasing used Lionel. I enjoy the repairing.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I found this thread searching for a pantograph for mine.  I think I may add lights to mine, I think I can sneak them into the shell. Even cooler would be directional lights...

Mine is actually in pretty good condition, no significant rust and all the parts are there. I just wonder if I should be modifying the shell of this one, it's in great shape with no cracks anywhere, even the problem screw hole.


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## tjcruiser

Gents,

Just out of curiosity, how would a real-life loco like that have been used? Passenger car service? Freight?

... or ...

Fighting aliens? T-Man ... you are always good for a laugh ...



T-Man said:


>


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'm guessing this would mostly be either local freight or switch yard service. That's just a guess, mind you. I saw earlier in the thread they used them in Chili for an ore train.


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## tjcruiser

I ask this very unkowningly ...

It's not that common to have overhead electric trains on freight service, is it ???


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## gunrunnerjohn

Sure, I've seen lots of them on the run between Phila and NYC when riding the train up the NYC. Many tracks are electrified in the Boston - WashDC corridor.


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## T-Man

T-Man said:


> The prototype was made by GE and the engine pulled ore cars in Chile.
> The car didn't come lighted. Directional lights with AC . My repro pantograh keeps popping off.
> 
> .


John, yours looks to be in great shape. I find it a fun little engine.
It would of been a good candidate for bluing.

So TJ, is it a prototype. One may have been in service in NY on the docks.











The information was supplied buy D. Smith of CTT Forum


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, bluing would require me to strip the chassis. It does have some slight rust in places, so it would be useful to refinish it. Since it's now blued, that would be the best option.

My repro pantograph stays on fine, maybe you need a new one. The Train Tender has them for $6.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks for the real-life prototype info, guys!

TJ


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## ram17x

Hey all,
Sorry to barge in on your thread, but it's the best 520 thread I found.
I inherited a 520 set from a close friend; he got it new as a kid.
I have the complete circle set including transformer. Does anyone know about the set? Was it a Christmas special at the time?
It only has a Lionel coal car, Baby Ruth boxcar and a Lionel caboose.

My plan is to re-build the engine...it does still run as-is.
Thanks for the tip on where to purchase the replacement pantograph.
I still have a piece of the original.

Thanks
Rich


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, bluing would require me to strip the chassis. It does have some slight rust in places, so it would be useful to refinish it. Since it's now blued, that would be the best option.
> 
> My repro pantograph stays on fine, maybe you need a new one. The Train Tender has them for $6.


$6.50 now John.



ram17x said:


> Hey all,
> Sorry to barge in on your thread, but it's the best 520 thread I found.
> I inherited a 520 set from a close friend; he got it new as a kid.
> I have the complete circle set including transformer. Does anyone know about the set? Was it a Christmas special at the time?
> It only has a Lionel coal car, Baby Ruth boxcar and a Lionel caboose.
> 
> My plan is to re-build the engine...it does still run as-is.
> Thanks for the tip on where to purchase the replacement pantograph.
> I still have a piece of the original.
> 
> Thanks
> Rich


You have the link?

Traintender,
http://www.ttender.com/partslist.html


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## ram17x

Big Ed,
I pulled up the Train Tender website, but finding my way around
the Lionel numbering will take some time. If you've got a direct link, that would be great. 
I need a few other pieces (body screws, bolster pins, etc)
I'd also like to replace some broken coupler pieces.
Any help would be appreciated.
I am an N-scaler typically....this O scale activity is just for fun.
Rich


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## Big Ed

ram17x said:


> Big Ed,
> I pulled up the Train Tender website, but finding my way around
> the Lionel numbering will take some time. If you've got a direct link, that would be great.
> I need a few other pieces (body screws, bolster pins, etc)
> I'd also like to replace some broken coupler pieces.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> I am an N-scaler typically....this O scale activity is just for fun.
> Rich


Anything you are looking for say the 520 pantograph just click the parts # index to that # and scroll to 520. that would be page 4 it has the #'s 


for  482-1U through 682-5. That part is listed as,
520-35 pantograph assy reproduction 6.50


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## Big Ed

You can call him too, he will know what you want and if he has it.

He packs everything in separate little bags listed with the #'s.

edit,

I can't link you to the page you want it just comes out with that page.


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## servoguy

Rich,
I thought it was all for fun. Did I miss something, or do you N scalers not enjoy what you are doing?


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## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> Rich,
> I thought it was all for fun. Did I miss something, or do you N scalers not enjoy what you are doing?



It is considered fun with O because you can actually see what your fixing.

(I have N also Rich)


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## servoguy

IMHO, anything to do with trains is interesting. My father has been dead for 33 years. I found out recently from my sister that he lived in a house near a RR track when he was 4 years old. He memorized all the trains and their schedules and where they were going, etc. I still have his collection of Trains magazine dating to Jan 1947. He was never interested in Lionel trains, although he did buy me my first train in 1950. He was a college chemistry teacher and apparently was not interested in the engineering of trains. When I was growing up in Emporia, Kansas, we lived 3/4 mile from the Santa Fe mainline. Periodically, we would go watch the trains. He knew when the Super Chief should go through, and so if it was on time, we would get to see it.


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## T-Man

My grandfather was a partner in a bus line. Not much interest in trains. Of course trolleys were popular then too.

This thread has a lot of general practice tips applicable to all engines, so you picked a good one to read.


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## Dave Sams

T-Man said:


> The shell came off with one screw....


Mine had 3 screws. The one that is often over tightened and visible from the end, and two on the opposite end accessed from the bottom.

In my case, it looks like someone removed the end screw and tried to pry the body off the chassis. The end is cracked, but they aren't visible unless you look very closely.


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## T-Man

I have two tabs on the other end, one screw.
I will say this motor does resemble a steam engine and it is one of the better threads to follow to clean up an old engine and check it to get it running. The skills here can be applied to all the electric motors and E units.

These motors are easy since they run without shells.
First I strip the shell and rods if bolted on. I remove gease. I clean and lube the armature and brush holder. Then with a jumper I bench test the motor. Then I clean the e unit. I clean the wheels up and track test it. I determine how the drum works. On the track the axles normally squeak and need oil too. On a good day twenty minutes, if I have no problems. Stuck screws are the worst problem and when working on an engine for the first time. If the screw head gets damaged and it does not turn you need to think about te fact that "Do you really need it removed?" I removed one from a side gear plate on a 1666 motor. I used a torch and got lucky. So on assembly use oil and don't overtighten. If the engine has rod nuts check them after running. They are not easy to find on a table. I just found one I lost over a year ago.


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## ram17x

Just a quick thank you to Jeff K. at TT.
Got all the parts I need to refurbish this little set for under $20.
I see why TT is a highly recommended supplier for Lionel parts.:thumbsup:

Now to decide if I want to clean the inside of the 520.
Still runs as-is, but clearly grimy....thoughts? tips?
I like to tinker with stuff, but don't want to get in over my head.


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## tjcruiser

GooGone, q-tips, pipe cleaners, soft toothbrush. Be gentle, and let the GooGone help degunk. Be extra careful around wire soldered ends.

Lube with 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil aftewards ... any spinning, sliding parts.

My two cents ...

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

For the plastic shell, I wash them in something like Dawn dishwashing liquid and warm water. Takes the grease and grime right off.


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## Dave Sams

Here is how my 520 body attaches to the frame. Notice the screws next to the operating coupler and wheel assembly.

Also T-Man, you are missing more than a coupler. You are missing the "2" from what I guess was a "2-4-2" steamer setup.










The Tandem Assoc page does not indicate any variation in the body mounting.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Dave Sams said:


> The Tandem Assoc page does not indicate any variation in the body mounting.


Well now, they'd be wrong.  Note the screw, that's what holds the shell on. See below the chassis, and I can assure you no wheels were missing.


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## Dave Sams

The other end of my 520 has one screw also.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Sure Dave, but look closely, I don't have the two screws you point out.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Sure Dave, but look closely, I don't have the two screws you point out.



It almost looks like Daves screws were added to it?
Maybe it was a fix Dave?
Custom cut washers.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I was thinking the same thing Ed, they sure don't look stock.  It's certainly possible that there were variations in the cab design, it's not like that's never happened with other models.


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## Dave Sams

Some pictures of my shell.










#520-5









The blocks where the self tapping screws look like they have been added during the mold making process. They are a part of the original body.

The glue is looks like a repair when the blocks were split by overtightening the screws.










No evidence of slots for the tabs.

FWIW


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## T-Man

I looked at mine and noticed a tab broken, So one more tab nd I will have to go twith two more screws.


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## Grandpa Railroader

ram17x, What are the #'s of the cars in that set. Thank you


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## T-Man

This is not my video. To ask specific questions visit the owners site linked up below.

tmackinator site

T mac has three sets the 1542 has the A babe Ruth, Caboose and gondola with canisters. 6014,6017,6012. To answer thwe question. The other two seta are uncatalogued with a chun king boxcar. The site explains it that I why I left the link.


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## gunrunnerjohn

How many of those #520's do you have?


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## tjcruiser

Great looking layout, T ... I especially like the wood truss elevated sections.

Someone you know, or just a YT find?

TJ


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## T-Man

That is a search find the owner has three sets of the 520.
You have to visit the site to see the information.







This is not my video. To ask specific questions visit the owners site linked up below.
This is the grizz site


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## santafe158

tjcruiser said:


> I ask this very unkowningly ...
> 
> It's not that common to have overhead electric trains on freight service, is it ???


Sure it was.

Many PRR GG1's ended their careers in freight service. Conrail went as far as converting #4800 for pulling freight only.









The Virginian ran many electrified freight lines.









Those engines eventually went to N&W when it took over the Virginian. N&W removed the electrified portions of the lines and the engines were sold to the New Haven. They went down the line through Penn Central and Conrail.


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## ram17x

Grandpa R,
My set has the slightly different cars than T-man.
I have the Lionel Line caboose # 6017, the Lionel gondola (no contents)
with road # 6112, and the Baby Ruth PRR boxcar # 6014.

Also, the cab on my 520 engine has tabs (one broken off) that tuck
into the frame. This is in contrast to the screw-type noted earlier.

Love the layout videos.:thumbsup:

R


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## tjcruiser

Nice info/pics on the electric freighters, SantaFe ... Thanks!

TJ


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## dennisb

Thanks for the detailed instructions on the 520, it helped me get one I had running again.

I appreciate it.

Dennis


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## T-Man

The nice part of this thread is the motor is typical of all the Lionel motors, each with slight differences. Cleaning is the same. The electric parts are similiar if not identical. The cleaning methods apply to all of them. The e unit too is typical and shows enough corrosion to want to throw it out, but it works when proper care is given.

All of the 50's instructions with sets stress cleaning and oiling, just about anything works. Mostly it is a matter of preference. It doesn't hurt to show some caution.


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## lionellines

A shot of my two 520s. Fun little locos.


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## T-Man

So true, you just can't have one.


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## Steve R

This looks like a lot of fun. Where do you find such nice old treasures ?


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## steam chaser

Very nice description of the whole cleaning process,looks cool,Love that old lionel


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## dennisb

Well that time of year again, starting working on the trains. The 520 is dead seems like some sort of short. Re followed the cleaning process but nothing. Is there a way to bypass the Eunit? At this point I dont care what direction it goes in I'd just like it to go.

Thanks
Dennis


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## T-Man

look here for the diagram

The best way is to disconnect it and conect one brush to the center roller and the othe r brush to the field coil.

I would just clean the connections.


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## dennisb

Thanks,
I took the Eunit apart after looking at two Utube videos I found, both finger contact plates have issues and will need replacing. Taking one wire from each brush to the transformer and first you get a hum and then smoke! Everything spins freely without power applied, one of the carbon brushes is a lot shorter than the other, might look into getting new brushes next.


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## tjcruiser

dennisb said:


> taking one wire from each brush to the transformer and first you get a hum and then smoke!


*NO! Don't do that! That's not the proper circuit path.*


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## tjcruiser

There's two different ways a Lionel loco would be wired ...

Type 1, if one end of field coil is grounded to frame --
(This is the type of wire circuit shown in the link from T-Man, above.)
Power goes from center rail (transformer hot) to one brush can, through armature, out other brush can to one end of field coil, through coil, then out other end of field coil to frame/ground, and from there to wheels, track, back to transformer.

Type 2, if one brush can is grounded to frame --
Power goes from center rail (transformer hot) to one end of field coil, through coil, out other end of coil to one one brush can, through armature, out other brush can to frame/ground, and from there to wheels, track, back to transformer.

TJ


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## T-Man

Live and learn.


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## dennisb

so does this mean my 520 is toast? I am hesitant to try anything else now?


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## tjcruiser

Perhaps not ... it depends on how hot/fried things got.

Per my post above, determine whether wiring is Type 1 or Type 2 (per what's grounded to the frame). Given that, you can jump-wire motor to run (with the e-unit disconnected or bypassed.) Post a pic, and we'll coach you from there.

TJ


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## George_San_Jose

*Thanks for great info on 520 restoration!*

My dad gave me the Lionel set that contained the 520 engine back in 1956. A little internet research shows the entire set, with the 520 engine, a caboose, an enclosed freight car with "Baby Ruth" written on it, an open top coal car, and O27 track enough to make maybe a 2 meter oval, the whole set cost $19.95, which seems reasonable now, but was about a day's pay in wages for my dad back then. It must have been somewhat of a budget burden to afford this train set.

I used it on and off until 1962 probably, then back into the box it went for the next 50 years. Then one day last week I decided -- for no particular reason, other than it was a rainy day -- to find the box. Voila, there it was, the whole set -- except for missing one of the curved sections of track. I set up a semi-circle as not enough track for the whole loop, and put the 520 on the track, hooked up the transformer. Nothing. Wouldn't go.

But I found the directions in this thread, followed them, and over the weekend got the 520 running almost good as new. As soon as I can find a curved section of 027 track, I'll be back in business! 

I always thought as a kid this 520 engine was a good one to have. The best in fact. It's non-compromising. It's not a pretender. Not a show boat. It's what it is. A workhorse. Reliable. And strong. Thanks so much for posting the restoration info.


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## George_San_Jose

Re: Removing the frame from the engine.

On my 520, I had to first remove an "e" circ-clip, which allowed me to remove one of the couplers, then under that was an usually shaped nut-fastener that required me to use a 5/16 socket to unscrew it, then the engine easily unhinged from the frame, as my engine is only held onto the frame by that nut-fastener on one side, and metal tabs which insert into the frame on the other.


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## T-Man

*Update*

I went through this thread and updated the pictures and just kicked the bucket out. Going back to 2009 , I was not in gun bluing. Otherwise I would not paint it.


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