# Lots o' various questions



## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Apparently my wife thinks if I build a model railroad for the grandkids, then we will HAVE grandkids.  Anyway she "gave" me the spare bedroom for me to build a permanent layout and this has generated a lot of questions I can't answer after a 40 year hiatus.

1. HO vs. N. Obviously N reduces turning radius limitations in my space. But is it as reliable as H0 now? I have a lot of H0 rolling stock and a lot of track, but various brands and quality. Switching to N would cost me in rolling stock, but that's not a budget issue. If go with N, what code and brands of track?

2. DCC, RailPro, BlueRail... and does this limit my choice of scale?
Railpro with DCC or Railpro with DCC-Ready modified locos? I have never used DCC so not sure where to start. 

3. H0 minimum reliable turn radius? I see 15" radius curves. This seems really tight. I'm not so concerned about the lack of realism in a sharp U turn as I am about derailing? A 30" diameter would increase a lot of my layout planning options for H0.

4. N minimum reliable turn radius?

5. Flex track for curves? I never used it much for curves as a kid because I didn't like cutting it. Now I plan to use it to the maximum extent possible -- especially if I can use it for curves.

Happy New Year.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

I’ve had both N and HO scale layouts, but my N scale experience is fairly old. So take that into account for my opinions.

1. HO vs N: I’m not sure when you mention reliability if you mean mechanical reliability of the rails or if you’re asking about locomotives. I’ll let others comment on current N scale locomotives. My experience with laying track, switches, and such is that larger scales are more forgiving than smaller scales. You need to be more precise laying smaller scale track to make sure joints are smooth without kinks than with larger scale. That said, I’m sure it’s possible to lay down highly reliable N scale track, but it takes more effort. Said another way, it’s my opinion that for the same amount of effort, HO scale track will be more reliable to run on than N scale. Maybe others will disagree with me, but that’s based on my experience.

You’ll find a larger selection of locomotives, cars, and buildings with HO scale than with N scale. Not sure if that’s important to you or not. I also find with my eyesight getting poorer over time that it’s easier to work on HO scale than N.

2. DCC, etc,: I ran analog DC on my previous layouts and now have DCC for my current one. I really like DCC and wouldn’t go back to DC. DCC is available for both HO and N scale, so that shouldn’t affect your choice of scale. I don’t have any real knowledge of the other digital control systems that you ask about.

3. Minimum HO scale radius: I think 15 is too tight. It will severely limit what locomotives you can run. 18” radius is the minimum for many diesel locomotives and many of the smaller steam locomotives. Larger steam locomotives often require 22” minimum radius curves. On my layout, I went with 21” being my minimum.

4. Minimum N scale radius: I’ll let others answer that.

5. Flex track: I used flex track everywhere (except for turnouts of course). The trick to using it in corners is to solder together 2 pieces of track before bending it and laying it down. That is the best way to avoid having in kink in the middle of a corner.

Hope this helps.

Mark


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

HO v N. N has come a long way since it’s inception and is now almost as detailed and certainly as reliable as HO. If you have a lot of HO stock stick with it. Throw out your old track though and start afresh. There is nothing else guaranteed to cause problems and headaches as malfunctioning trackwork.

DCC etc. DCC is great and is probably at the height of its development. There are many systems to choose from so try to look at as many as possible on YouTube to understand if the operating and programming might suit you. I’d recommend the NCE PowerCab for a good stater system and it can be easily upgraded as you go, but then so can others. I have a Z21 system which uses WiFi to connect your smartphone/tablet wirelessly to control the trains and set the CVs. You can also use a facsimile of a real cab to control the train via the actual ones. Digitrax and MRC also make good sets but you have to pay extra to go wire free. DCC will greatly simplify your track wiring.

Minimum radius. Obviously the bigger you go the better, both for better realism and reliability. In your spare room consider a point to point layout on two or three walls rather than a round and round type, this will help you with min radius question and give you better access to all parts of your layout.

Flex track is more or less obligatory if you’re doing a custom layout. Now you can cut it with special clippers greatly simplifying things.

Any other questions you have just ask and good luck.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

jackpresley said:


> Apparently my wife thinks if I build a model railroad for the grandkids, then we will HAVE grandkids.  Anyway she "gave" me the spare bedroom for me to build a permanent layout and this has generated a lot of questions I can't answer after a 40 year hiatus.
> 
> 1. HO vs. N. Obviously N reduces turning radius limitations in my space. But is it as reliable as H0 now? I have a lot of H0 rolling stock and a lot of track, but various brands and quality. Switching to N would cost me in rolling stock, but that's not a budget issue. If go with N, what code and brands of track?


The quality of the two scales is pretty much identical, with some items being well designed and well assembled. Depends on manufacturer, but the importers seem to be serious about fixing problems or offering replacements, and that's independent of scale.



jackpresley said:


> 2. DCC, RailPro, BlueRail... and does this limit my choice of scale?
> Railpro with DCC or Railpro with DCC-Ready modified locos? I have never used DCC so not sure where to start.


Not really, although you'd have to do the required research to ensure whichever system you get will accept the throughput from a suitable power supply and apply it to the rails for you. I do know that all DCC systems enable you to select the scale and they supply power to the rails based on the NMRA standards for DCC. I would expect the designers of the other systems, with which I have no experience, to do precisely the same or they'd have some very irate customers whose expensive decoders had let out their magic smoke.



jackpresley said:


> 3. H0 minimum reliable turn radius? I see 15" radius curves. This seems really tight. I'm not so concerned about the lack of realism in a sharp U turn as I am about derailing? A 30" diameter would increase a lot of my layout planning options for H0.


 Without knowing what rolling stock you are using, and which scale, it's impossible to answer your question. For example, are you only modeling a suburban trolley system? Just like the prototype, they take very sharp curves on rails embedded into concrete and pavement on city streets. So, 15" would be fine. In HO. In N scale, they'd be generous curves at the lower end of what could be called 'broad' curves. Back to HO, broad curves would be twice that, or 30" radius. But the question you need to ask yourself is, "How do I determine what I can run safely on the curves I have to accept for radius in the space I have been given and in the configuration for a track plan that will satisfy me?" That's quite a mouthful, but every word is important. You must do some research about rolling stock, or contact the importers, or ask here about specific items to find out what their deemed minimum operating radius is. As a general rule, go wide...every time. If you can shoehorn a 24" curve someplace, do so. It opens up your nicely laid, and reliable, track system to larger rolling stock. It may not be important today, but next year...? Most of us develop a crush on something we find that we simply must have, like a 2-10-2 steamer that needs a minimum of 22" radius. If it needs it, so will you.



jackpresley said:


> 4. N minimum reliable turn radius?


Same answer as above: impossible to answer accurately without knowing which item you want to run. You need to be specific, and then add another 15% or more if you can fit the curvature in order to allow for 'expansion' at a later date.



jackpresley said:


> 5. Flex track for curves? I never used it much for curves as a kid because I didn't like cutting it. Now I plan to use it to the maximum extent possible -- especially if I can use it for curves.
> 
> Happy New Year.


Yes, flex track for curves, but more for 'custom' curves. Spaces vary, and for any given track plan envisioned, the curves will be custom. Flex track offers you the flexibility of generating the geometry you desire. There is some self-training, but lots of videos on youtube showing how to fashion the curves so that there are no kinks. It gets both easier and faster the more you do. Don't sweat it if you have to discard some booboos. Just cut off the ruined end and use the shorter length, but try not to replicate the error! As a hint, you can put a full length metal joiner between two pieces of scrap rail, mounted, and cut through the joiner using a hobby razor saw. This shorter joiner, inserted between two ties about six ties deep into one end of one of the two lengths of flex you are mating, will suffice to keep the rail ends in contact and in mechanical alignment. You don't need to use a whole length of metal joiner. In fact, you know have two shorter joiners to use in your curved flex.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

If you have the whole room to work with, I would go with a shelf type layout instead of a constraining 4X8 sheet of plywood. The plywood will limit your movement around the room and will occupy a foot print that you can't really clean under. Wiring will be a problem with reach.
A shelf layout will give you much more running distance as well as broader curves.
A multi level shelf layout will be a long term hobby and will offer many scenery options.
A shelf layout gives you easy access to the underside for wiring. You can attach the whole thing to the wall with no legs to bump, kick or break. You can still put a desk in there under the shelf layout.
A lift out, pivot up or swing outa the way section are the options for entry into the room. Least option is the duck under. That constrains what you can take into the room.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You've received great advice so far, and I will just add my two cents on your control system.

I would recommend that you look at your needs. If you just want to run a couple of locos at once and don't really care about tweaking performance, the go with a basic system Bachmann's EZ Command (NOT Dynamis) or MRC's Prodigy Explorer. If you want a full featured set, MRC Prodigy Express, NCE PowerCab, or Digitrax Zephyr are all good choices. My personal preference is for the MRC, as I found it much easier to use, and a better feel than the others, but that's PURELY a personal thing. Others will swear by the competing systems.

I would leave RailPro, dead rail, etc, alone for the time being. While those technologies are coming along, I don't think they're ready for prime time in HO and N scale yet.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Thank you to everyone for all the great advice. I decided to stick with HO and upgrade to DCC. I had a great time today at Dibble's Hobbies in San Antonio and learned a lot and got to put hands on a lot of things I've only read about. Nothing better than an old school hobby shop.

I got a Zephyr DCS51 and a DCC locomotive and have been tinkering with things tonight. Lots to learn.

I'll post a couple of designs for the table/shelves and let y'all critic.

Thanks again everyone and have a safe New Year's weekend.


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## deedub35 (Jan 29, 2014)

jackpresley said:


> Thank you to everyone for all the great advice. I decided to stick with HO and upgrade to DCC. I had a great time today at Dibble's Hobbies in San Antonio and learned a lot and got to put hands on a lot of things I've only read about. Nothing better than an old school hobby shop.
> 
> I got a Zephyr DCS51 and a DCC locomotive and have been tinkering with things tonight. Lots to learn.
> 
> ...


You won’t be disappointed with your purchase. That’s what I started with.


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## Colorado1445 (Nov 11, 2017)

If you go N scale I recommend any radius above 11°


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Ever so many of our members would crave a full
room in which to build a layout. You are very
fortunate.

I also had a room to use for my layout. I didn't want
to damage the walls so I built my benchwork modular.
Measurements told me what size and how many
modules to construct. I used 1X3 lumber for the
frames and the same as an L for the supports.
Bolted in the corners these provide stability. Use
screws and bolts, never nails. I built my modules
in the carport to avoid sawdust in the house. By bolting
them together it would be easy to rearrange them
when you get another layout idea. 1/4"
plywood is sufficient for the top. Many like to use
2" foam on that. That makes it easy to 'dig' streams
or ponds. It also provides an ideal surface when you
'glue' down your tracks. 

A full room invites
a main line that tracks the walls. You would want
to provide for a lift out or hinged 'bridge' for
center of room access. Don't even think of 'crawl
under'.

Don


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