# Please explain floor plans of these Athearn passenger cars?



## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

I'm interested to know the features represented in this Athearn dome car and observation car. The observation car is actually an old Globe/early Athearn model with some differences in construction, but outwardly similar to later Athearn.

I took photos of each car with a mirror to show the different window arrangements on each side.

My HO model railroad era is 1970's and I run a 5-car passenger train of baggage-diner-dome-coach-observation. It's imagined to be a medium-length run on an unspecified western route. I'd like to think that the train has adequate amenities for the passengers. Any comments on the order of these cars in the train would also be welcomed.

Mixing Amtrak and Santa Fe passenger cars is logical for the 1970's. As I recall, when Amtrak started up in 1971 they acquired a large portion of their cars from Santa Fe because Santa Fe had the largest passenger fleet of relatively newer and better equipment. Amtrak and Santa Fe is a fairly tidy mix aethestically, not a wild rainbow of different roadnames as was sometimes run in the earliest Amtrak years.

What I'm specifically wondering:

Is the observation car mostly regular seating, and does it have some bedroom compartments or buffet or lounge bar or powder rooms where the window pattern is different up front?

Does the dome have regular coach seating at each end of the main level? What is underneath the dome? The windows suggest that the aisle (or whatever) drops down on one side of the car to pass under the dome section.

I really like these Athearn passenger cars because the shortened length is just the right size for my layout with somewhat sharp curves. I wonder to what extent they represent actual prototype cars, since something is compromised to shorten them.

Thanks for any info. My internet access is infrequent in recent months so I may not be back real soon.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm certainly no expert, but generally speaking:
1) Lavatories do not have windows.
2) Observation cars are more lounge / parlor car-type seating, with tables and wider chairs. Many of them have a bar or concession area at one side of the front of the car, with limited seating on the opposite side. Windows behind this (one side only) will be smaller than those on the "seating" side of the car.
3) Dome cars which are not a full double decker usually have coach seating at each end and a depressed area in the center of the car to allow room for the seating area above. This area might have some seats, or storage with a passageway on one side. Depending on the seating / passageway arrangement, windows would be different to accommodate.

All that said, you could probably Google the floor plans, or the railroad's historical society may be able to give (or sell) you some.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

CTValleyRR said:


> I'm certainly no expert, but generally speaking:
> 1) Lavatories do not have windows.


It depends. Some floor plans don't, but some do have toilet windows, but they're often smaller, and will definitely be frosted. The small windows at the one end of his dome car "could" be lavatory windows.



CTValleyRR said:


> 2) Observation cars are more lounge / parlor car-type seating, with tables and wider chairs. Many of them have a bar or concession area at one side of the front of the car, with limited seating on the opposite side. Windows behind this (one side only) will be smaller than those on the "seating" side of the car.


Generally agree, although observation car plans vary wildly and are pretty customized. Some had smaller lounge areas and included dining and/or sleeping space. The relatively standard windows for the rear 2/3s of this particular car probably mean it's roughly based on a car that's mostly lounge seating. There could be a bar or cafe at the front of the car where the smaller windows are. There would not be seating opposite the aisle of this though - the cafe/bar would be considerably wider than a pair of seats, and the aisle/walkway is shifted to run along the outside of the car. The "mirror" side of the car with the narrowest windows would likely be the "bar" side, the close side of the car with the slightly larger and more regular windows would be the hallway side.




CTValleyRR said:


> 3) Dome cars which are not a full double decker usually have coach seating at each end and a depressed area in the center of the car to allow room for the seating area above. This area might have some seats, or storage with a passageway on one side. Depending on the seating / passageway arrangement, windows would be different to accommodate.


Definitely depressed - or the ceiling in this area would be about at chest height due to the lowered second level floor for the dome seating!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

cv_acr said:


> It depends. Some floor plans don't, but some do have toilet windows, but they're often smaller, and will definitely be frosted. The small windows at the one end of his dome car "could" be lavatory windows.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And this would be why my observations were headed with the expression "generally speaking".


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## jdr3366 (Jan 2, 2018)

I just did a Google search and found lots of floor plans for these cars. Try "floor plan for pullman cars"


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## lajrmdlr (Apr 25, 2014)

Some pax cars did have bathroom windows but not ones that allow viewing inside from the outside, i.e. they only let light in. Look for info on specific pax cars in their respective historical societies. However, Amtrak did change things in the cars they inherited from the RRs.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

As to your question regarding the order of your 5 cars I suggest putting the diner between the coach and the dome so passengers in both cars can access the diner.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

jdr3366 said:


> I just did a Google search and found lots of floor plans for these cars. Try "floor plan for pullman cars"


None of these are Pullmans though.


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## jdr3366 (Jan 2, 2018)

Then search "observation car amtrak floor plan" or whatever applies.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

You'll never find an exact floor plan that Athearn represents with their passenger cars, because they are shorter then the real thing....made them that way to go around tighter curves better....never meant to depict the real thing with 100% accuracy, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over that....


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## Roundhouse Foreman (Jan 6, 2015)

Ace,

Maybe try looking up older Con-Cor cars as they were available with interiors. Their 18" dia. track sets have shorter cars like the Empire State Express or 20th Century ltd. and may help you in setting up a more practical interior configuration for conversion to Athearn. Much better than to have to go and cobb up good Rivarossi or Walthers pieces.

RHF


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## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

Thank you all for the responses. I was hoping someone could identify whether these Athearn cars are patterned after specific prototypes on certain railroads, even though they are shortened. And I don't expect to see an exact floor plan; I just wanted to know in general terms what sort of facilities are likely to be in these cars according to the different window patterns. I'm not planning to build detailed interiors.

I've had infrequent and limited internet access in recent months, otherwise I would be happy to spend all day researching this on the internet.


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## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

I'm still hoping to find information on this subject. I had hoped someone here might recall the pre-Amtrak passenger cars from personal experiences. Actual pics would help a lot. I'm somewhat familiar with Amtrak Superliner cars as I've ridden them for a few thousand miles.

This photo shows a likely interior scenario for my Athearn/Globe observation car, but I'm not sure what would be up front.

I rode the Rio Grande Zephyr from Salt Lake City to Denver in 1980 but I can't honestly remember the layout in the lower part of the dome cars.







Second pic shows my five-car HO passenger train with Athearn/Globe cars.








My latest incomplete research suggests that the Athearn passenger cars are generally patterned after Santa Fe cars, and the Athearn dome cars are perhaps patterned after the Santa Fe "Pleasure dome" cars, of which there were only six, generally outfitted with a lounge area, cocktail lounge under the dome (?), and (a unique feature) a private dining room for 12, available by reservation, served by a kitchen in an adjoining car. But I guess there were variations.


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## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

It turns out that the Athearn dome car has an actual Amtrak number (9354) for an actual former Santa Fe "Pleasure dome" car as used in the "Super Chief" train. Doh! I'm surprised that one of the train experts on this forum didn't beat me to the punch on this.

I saw discussion on another forum (years old) which remarked that Athearn, being based in SoCal, sometimes favored Santa Fe prototypes. I can imagine that Santa Fe cooperated with Athearn for good public relations and publicity. The older Athearn yellow boxes pictured a Santa Fe passenger train, right? And the later blue boxes showed part of the "Santa Fe" lettering on a passenger car.

The Athearn streamlined dome car definitely shows resemblance to the "Pleasure dome" cars, even though it's not an exact copy. So now it's easy to research the interior arrangements.























_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_Dome_(railcar)

"The Pleasure Domes were the first dome cars the Santa Fe owned and operated when they entered service on the Super Chief in 1950 ..."_


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## jdr3366 (Jan 2, 2018)

What are the chances that a railroad today would name a passenger car the "pleasure dome" ?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

jdr3366 said:


> What are the chances that a railroad today would name a passenger car the "pleasure dome" ?


Maybe if they did ridership, no pun intended, would increase.


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## jdr3366 (Jan 2, 2018)

Gramps. I'm surprised. Shame on you.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Ace said:


> I'm surprised that one of the train experts on this forum didn't beat me to the punch on this.


One can know a lot about trains and not much about various aspects, especially cars that didn't run on the road they model. I basically said as much in my first response.

Glad your research paid off!


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## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

jdr3366 said:


> What are the chances that a railroad today would name a passenger car the "pleasure dome" ?


Haha!! The "Pleasure dome" car did have a cocktail bar in the lower level. Nowadays they could perhaps have other diverse recreational activities to attract ridership. Aren't there enough "dinner trains" already?

I'm still researching the Athearn observation car. I suspect it's patterned after another Santa Fe prototype.


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