# Help with passengers station layout



## rva1945 (Feb 11, 2016)

I will add a section to my L-shaped H0 layout adding a 280cm x 60cm (112" x 24") with access to and exit from a passengers station.

As it is impossible to turn given the room constraint, the locomotive must move from the front to the rear. Now I will have to turn it 180 degrees using a turntable unless I get one of those (mostly GP's) that could be driven backwards pulling the cars, in this case using the bypass parallel to the main track.

I want it to be a D&RGW passengers service.

Here are attached 3 possible layouts, please tell me if they are sound or not, and I will appreciate any ideas or suggestions.

Robert


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

That looks like a Y to the right, or a configuration that could easily be made into one. Use that to turn your train and have it back into the station. Then it's ready to go. Many stations are stub ended. Grand Central Terminal in New York works this way, although at that station, trains pull in forward. When all passengers have de-trained, the train backs out, turns on a Y, and is respotted, ready to load passengers and depart.

Other stations that were in mid-route turned the train, then backed in.

Cutting off the loco with passengers still onboard and making them wait while a loco was turned was/is actually fairly rare. To this end, your middle option is best.

Another way to do it would be to have a loco at each end of the train, so the engine crew just swaps positions. Or you could swap locos, leaving the old one on the tail of the turnout (which needs to be longer than your locos) and coupling the new one to the rear of the train. The old loco is then turned and staged on a siding, ready to take the next train out.


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## rva1945 (Feb 11, 2016)

I guess that by Y you meant a wye. But there is no room for a wye here, but I could easily install a 30cm turntable. It is not large enough to turn a FT/7 A+B, but an A unit or a GP would fit. Though turntables are not so common and even less common close to a passengers station. I'm looking for a "compromise solution".
Thanks


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rva1945 said:


> I guess that by Y you meant a wye. But there is no room for a wye here, but I could easily install a 30cm turntable. It is not large enough to turn a FT/7 A+B, but an A unit or a GP would fit. Though turntables are not so common and even less common close to a passengers station. I'm looking for a "compromise solution".
> Thanks


You don't have to turn the B unit. Using that loco pair is going to involve a lot of movements, no matter what you do, and in point of fact, it doesn't look like an A-B unit will fit on the turnout lead at the end of the runaround track, so it's kind of academic.

But I'm looking at the track configuration just to the right of your new area.

It may not be a Y (or wye, if you prefer to see the letter spelled out), but it could easily be made into one, unless those two tracks are on different elevation levels. I think that's your best solution, operationally speaking -- even though it's not one of the 3 solutions you proposed.

If you're asking whether you can install a turntable, of course you can. It's your layout.

Without a Y, the middle option doesn't allow you to turn anything. Otherwise, there is nothing to distinguish between the other two options except the direction and length of the turntable leads, and that's entirely cosmetic, with no operational benefit to either arrangement.


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## rva1945 (Feb 11, 2016)

I can't see how I can turn a locomotive 180 degrees without a turntable or the Y. And by Y or wye I mean this:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=199ytOr1iRfi67XFWS1pFwE7I74aDk6oP


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rva1945 said:


> I can't see how I can turn a locomotive 180 degrees without a turntable or the Y. And by Y or wye I mean this:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=199ytOr1iRfi67XFWS1pFwE7I74aDk6oP


I can't see the image (it's blocked by a firewall -- why not actually post it to make life easier for everyone else), but I am referring to a track arrangement that looks like a triangle, with at least some additional track beyond each point of the triangle.

You are absolutely right, you need either the turntable or a Y to turn a train or locomotive. I've said that three times now.

And to repeat once more: BECAUSE you need this element, the arrangement you show in your middle picture doesn't work, period. The other two add a turntable, which works, but as I said before, isn't very realistic.

What I am telling you to do is RECONFIGURE your EXISTING track layout so that you DO have a Y. It looks like you have 2 of 3 legs already. This neatly solves all your problems and allows you to operate trains more realistically as described in my first post. You seem to think that your existing track is untouchable. It isn't. It worked well in your previous operating scheme, but now it doesn't support the proposed update. So change it.

AGAIN, this is your layout. You don't have to do anything that anyone recommends. I'm sorry that my recommendation went in a different direction, but you asked for advice. You don't have to take it, but at least try to understand what I'm recommending.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I quite agree with CTvalley...simply add a
turnout connecting the two vertical tracks on the right
where they meet near the top. That then becomes
your wye and can turn locos around.
The drawing of a wye that you posted
is simply what your proposed track plan is but
condensed.

Don


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

I would take design 2, but flip the tracks at the top around (connect to rightmost end of runaround), to serve as both a coach and engine yard.

Two yard/storage tracks for cars, one for engines?
(or perhaps three tracks for cars, holding a train "ready to go")

Perhaps you could work the turntable in to the right of it?
Or convert the tracks on the right into a "Y"?

Easy way out:
Use hood units for your passenger trains.
Some railroads did this -- they don't need to be turned!


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## rva1945 (Feb 11, 2016)

The problem is that the rightmost portion of track belongs to the main track. To use that section as part of the Y, the locomotive would have to run that portion (and in reverse!) for complete 180 degrees. While it can be done, I don't think it is the "right thing".

I am already searching for examples of hood units, like GP9, SP #5623. They saved the money and room for a Y with that one.

Thanks for all the tips, guys!


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## rva1945 (Feb 11, 2016)

What about this one?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wqUcQ78sYltqh4JNM2cznpNMEdcF4nyS


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rva1945 said:


> The problem is that the rightmost portion of track belongs to the main track. To use that section as part of the Y, the locomotive would have to run that portion (and in reverse!) for complete 180 degrees. While it can be done, I don't think it is the "right thing".
> 
> Thanks for all the tips, guys!


You're still not understanding. You need to modify the track to make it a much shorter Y -- it can be done within the area of track shown in your diagrams, and the train doesn't need to go much farther than that to complete the turning move. There is no need to take a lap.

All you have to do is add a crossover between the two vertical tracks at the right.

I repeat: YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE CONFIGURATION OF YOUR EXISTING TRACK. This really isn't a big deal.

The most Y tracks have at least one leg on the mainline. There are three such arrangements, all of them in use, within a 25 mile radius of my house.

Whatever. We tried. Pick one of your options and live with it. Good luck.


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## rva1945 (Feb 11, 2016)

Please see my post previous to your response. I think I got the idea.


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## rva1945 (Feb 11, 2016)

Better this way as the station will be located "below" (I will face the layout from "above"):

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E43Q60RlHJpxvzYYec8X3oEkDw0yT0dV


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That's the best plan yet. It is very common for one leg of
a Wye to be a section of the main.

I'm not sure of the length of the tail of the passing 
siding trackwork. Bottom left. It is long enough for any loco
consists that would use it?

Don


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## Scotie (Sep 27, 2013)

Why not consider a "push-pull" operation with power at one end and either a cab in the last passenger car or a control only cab unit. Many if not most commuter operations nowadays are using this to eliminate turning trains. Amtrak also does it on some runs from NYP to Pennsylvania. Electric power on one end and a modified former MetroLiner car having a control cab on the other.
Another possibility is to use double ended units like the RDC's or gas electrics.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> That's the best plan yet. It is very common for one leg of
> a Wye to be a section of the main.
> 
> I'm not sure of the length of the tail of the passing
> ...


Now THAT'S what we're talking about. That latest plan will work very well.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rva1945 said:


> Please see my post previous to your response. I think I got the idea.


Well, you hadn't at that point, because you were objecting to having to take an entire lap, but your latest plan shows that you're with us now. All good. Sorry if i came on a little strong.


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