# Please help me



## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

i was using a set of ac Gilbert American flyers and they worked beautifully. I went and got a snack and when I came back they drove super slow and barely moved. I did not leave them on and i tried using a different train. Didn't help. Tracks didn't help and transformer didn't help. Also new connection didn't help. Pls help me


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Ariwyner said:


> I did not leave them on and i tried using a different train. Didn't help. Tracks didn't help and transformer didn't help. Also new connection didn't help. Pls help me


There is lots of help available here, but you're going to have to supply some specific details. If you have a voltmeter now is a good time to use it.:smokin:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Try to narrow down the problem: mechanical or electrical? Do the drive wheels / gears on the loco turn easily enough by hand? could something have got caught in the linkages? Is there a short somewhere in the track? Remove track pieces down to just one or two (connected to your power supply). Does the loco run OK on that?

TJ


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

It runs stiffly and it receives 16 volts and .8 amps. No matter how many tracks it isn't changing. It runs but slowly and the wheels are extremely stuff but they were great before it was just instantaneous so I don't think they could possible be dirty


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

If I understand you correctly, this problem occurred during a 5-ish minute interval while you were away from the layout. This pretty much points to a mechanical or electrical failure or damage. Did you leave the train operating or the set energized while you were absent? 

Although I do have to ask the obvious question: is there any possibility that any part of the aforementioned snack accidentally became part of the running gear or electrical components of the loco?


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

It did not have to do with the snack and for electrical or mechanical problems read the earlier comments


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Ariwyner said:


> It did not have to do with the snack and for electrical or mechanical problems read the earlier comments


Sounds like a electrical deal, maybe the transformer is pooping out. You can send, if desired, the loco to one of us on the s scale forum and we can check it out for you or rebuild it.. Your choice.


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

Ha but we have to transformers and they do the same and I took the one apart and rebuilt it and it didn't help. I love in new have where are u located just in case


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Ariwyner said:


> It did not have to do with the snack and for electrical or mechanical problems read the earlier comments


I think you need to go back and read the earlier posts, my friend. I read every word, and all I see is a litany of "can'ts". If you didn't inadvertantly spill food on your layout -- which happens to experienced folks, even though you obviously resent the possibility that it happened in your case, and it isn't an electrical or mechanical fault, then clearly the model railroad fairy waved her wand over your layout because you were bad, and as soon as your behavior improves, she will be back to restore your layout to its former glory.

Since we can all agree (I think), that there isn't a railroad fairy, we have to go back to the mechanical or electrical fault theory. Sherlock Holmes said, "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

From my perspective, you are far too quick to dismiss other's ideas as impossible. If you are going to solve this problem, you have to systematically eliminate all possible issues. Yes, you may have spent hours troubleshooting, but we don't know that, and haven't seen what you saw. So instead of a curt, impatient "no", please describe, IN DETAIL, exactly what you did. If you're willing to work with us instead of wave your arms and scream "help", we can solve your problem. Those of us asking questions are doing so because each of us has isolated and solved problems before, and we have our own step by step processes for doing so. Very few of us are willing to spend the time and effort necessary to help if all we're going to do is spitball ideas around.


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

I first checked the multimeter and it read 16 volts but I checked the wheels of the train while it was running and it also said 16 volts. I checked them Amps in the wires and it read 0.8. I just don't think it could be electrical because it suddenly happens to both trains and ttransfrmers. The. I tried with every possible amounts of tracks and new tracks and it does didn't help. I cleaned each of the wheels and tracks which didn't help. Then I put a light ip caboose to check the electrical flow again and it flickered. Could u possibly list the possible problems?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Ariwyner said:


> Ha but we have to transformers and they do the same and I took the one apart and rebuilt it and it didn't help. I love in new have where are u located just in case


You say you have "to" transformers?
Question, would they have a name? What are they?

You say, "i was using a set ac Gilbert American flyers".
What are their numbers? What locomotives are they?

You have not mentioned these.


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

It is just says American flyer on hem one is a red nob that u turn and one is a large metal rod that u pish down and turn I have the two models of locomotives but it doesn't say what model. Their 60 years old if that helps


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Ariwyner said:


> It is just says American flyer on hem one is a red nob that u turn and one is a large metal rod that u pish down and turn I have the two models of locomotives but it doesn't say what model. Their 60 years old if that helps


There should be numbers on the trains?

A little info for you,

copy and paste,
AC or DC Electric Current?

Most American Flyer "S" and "O" engines were designed to run on AC or Alternating Current. Although, the motors are what is referred to as "series wound", so they can also operated on DC or Direct Current. Maximum voltage is 15 to 17 volts.

American Flyer engines also were made that would only run on DC, those engines have a "DC" after the engine number. Engines that have an "AC", after the engine number will run on both.

All American Flyer Transformers are AC. The DC versions are called Rectaformers.

Are you sure that your trains are not supposed to run on DC and your trying to run them on an AC transformer?

Put some pictures of what you have here, trains and transformers.
Your trains should have a number on them?

I am not a Flyer man, I run Lionel's.
Just trying to get to the root your problem, post some "good" pictures of what you have.


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

It won't let me send it can u just email me so I can send by email at [email protected]


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The list of possible problems is enormous, that's why we usually work backwards and find out what it isn't rather than what it is. Not being an American Flyer guy, I'll have to assume that the amp and voltage readings are normal. Also, you still haven't said whether you left the layout operating when you were absent or not. An electrical failure is most likely to happen during power on.

I start by taking readings at the output terminals of the transformer and move toward the tracks, checking each link along the way. If you have a second loco available, try running that. If you appear to have an uniterrupted electrical path to your loco, check all your connections and make sure they're tight, and that the problem isn't caused by the track flexing under the weight of the train.

I was about to suggest that it sounds like your problem is in the loco, but the caboose flickering too may indicate otherwise. Lights flickering means electrical current is being interrupted somehow, somewhere.

One possibility you also need to run to ground (pardon the pun) is whether there is an intermittent short. I had one once that was caused by a small piece of something that looked like plastic bridging the rails at the end of a bridge. Took me forever to find it. Especially if your transformers have circuit breakers that reset automatically, this is a real possibility.

If we can narrow it down to the loco, that shortens the list somewhat. Remember, that your two best tools are patience and knowledge. ACTUALLY test it, don't assume. Most of the time, when I find a problem, it turns out to be something I had assumed couldn't be wrong.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Ariwyner said:


> It is just says American flyer on hem one is a red nob that u turn and one is a large metal rod that u pish down and turn I have the two models of locomotives but it doesn't say what model. Their 60 years old if that helps


Yes, any and all solid facts are helpful. WHAT is 60 yrs old, the transformers, the locos, or both?


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

Both are 60 years old and worked perfectly and the went the opposite direction to working terribly


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The.......locomotives.......have......no.........numbers.......on.....the.....cabs???:dunno:


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

I don't see the numbers does anybody have some actual ideas not complaining about me not being professional


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

See if you can ID them (the to trains and the to transformers) here,
http://www.rfgco.com/galleries/index.html


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

It's the Atlantic and pacific trains model locomotives


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Ariwyner said:


> I don't see the numbers does anybody have some actual ideas not complaining about me not being professional


:dunno: who is complaining?


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

It's the model Antarctic or someothing


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Do you see your transformers there?
They have pictures there if you click on transformers.


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

It's #1.5 and 16b transformers on your link


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Please don't get irritated at us, we're just trying to help. It's hard to diagnose something over the "wire". From what I gather, you have an "Atlantic" engine, and a "Pacific" engine. Both good little runners that should run another 60 years. You stated in your original post, the trains were running fine, you left the room, and when you came back, they were slow or sluggish. Were the engines serviced at all before you attempted to run them?? It could be that they did indeed run for awhile, but something happened internally during that short run time. It seems your transformers are up to task, so I suspect there's something going on inside the e-unit or the motor. Maybe a bad brush or brush spring, maybe old grease that is caked up in the motor/gears. Go to the "S" forum as there's a whole bunch of "experts" there who can help you better than here. I'm no expert but have been around flyers since the mid-50's, so I know a little something.. Glad to share that with you. You can run the engine without the tender by direct wiring the transformer to the engine. I don't have the simple wiring diagram, but if you go into the "S" scale forum and ask, someone there will post the wiring diagram for you. NuttinButFlyer is one of our "go to" guys when we have a problem, and I know he has the diagram. The steam engines you have are very easy to fix, and not complicated. What makes it complicated is trying to help over the computer when we don't have enough information to give sound advice..If you still have problems and want us to take a look at them, we can do that too. I usually just ask for the cost of shipping, and MAYBE the costs of the parts, if I don't have them on hand. I know I speak for NuttinButFlyer, as he will also help with your engines. We are a very friendly group in "S" scale, as well as in the whole forum.. Big Ed is a assert here for us..Bear with us and we can solve the problem.. Go to the "S" scale forum. By the way, I'm located in NY, on Lake Ontario.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

This is a very strange problem.

Two transformers. Both verified to put out 18 V.

Two trains. Both ran ok but began running slow after snack time.
From your posts, you seem to have good electrical smarts so
it should be easy to find the problem. You have verified that
the transformers are putting out the correct current.

I have a some questions. 

Are there any accessories taking
power from the track? Are these operating normally?
Is a turnout motor possibly stuck 'on'?

Are there any lighted cars on the track? Are they
lighted when you power the track?

What voltage do you get at various points on the
track when both locos are running now? 
What voltage at points on the track when transformer
is run up all the way?

Try running the locos OFF THE TRACK to see if they
run correctly.

Since it's doubtful that both trains developed a gear or
motor problem at the same time and if all of the above
is normal, one has to suspect that
there is a defect of some sort in the track or connection between track
and transformer.

In another post, a 3 rail 0 gauge owner found that an insulator
failed on the middle rail and shorted. You may have that on
your 2 rail track. (I am assuming you have S gauge, 2 rail).

Remove all locos, lighted cars or
any connected accessories from the track. Disconnect
the transformer. Use your volt/ohmeter set for ohms with a probe on
each rail. If you get a reading there is a short of some
kind in one of the track sections. If there is a reading
you'll have to check each section of track individually
disconnected from the layout. If you get no reading
then the track is eliminated as the cause.

With all of the accessories etc. disconnected, try running
the trains again. If they run ok, there is a problem in one
of the accessories. Reconnect them one at a time and
test run the train each time. If the trains slow when you
connect one, that is the culprit and it should be checked
to see why it is draining your track current.

I'm counting on you to have discovered the problem somewhere
along the above lines.

There's just not much more that it could be.

Good luck.

Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Look at the track carefully too, for a piece of fallen metal touching the rails, a screwdriver touching.........................anything that might have fell on or under the track.

All wheels are on the rail?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

big ed said:


> :dunno: who is complaining?


I think he must be referring to me. It's like talking to my teenage sons: I either have to drag information out of them one snippet at a time, or else it comes pouring out at a pace so rapid no one can possibly understand. 

To set the record straight, no I'm not complaining about professionalism, but if we want help, we might be a little less testy when we get asked for clarity.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Two different trains 

Two different controllers

Different track good old new etc

All have same problem when testing

Length of track?

Power surge? Bad outlet? 

Everything going bad at the same time is weird


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## Ariwyner (Dec 5, 2014)

The train says northwestern lines I realized if that helps please give me more possible problems I should fix


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