# How do I model this excursion car?



## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

I have attached a picture of an open-sided excursion car that I want to model. It looks like they cut the windows out of an old coach. I can do that with an old heavyweight coach that I have with a removable roof so I can work on it, but it also looks like they cut upward toward the roof to enlarge the openings significantly. How on Earth can I enlarge those openings upward and keep all the openings even and straight and identical along the top? The thin piece left across the top would be awfully thin and fragile, and I'd probably break it while trying to enlarge the openings that far upward.

It seems like there ought to be a better way. All suggestions welcome.

Never Get Old


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*"Profound insight"Brass is stronger than plastic.*



Never Get Old said:


> I have attached a picture of an open-sided excursion car that I want to model. It looks like they cut the windows out of an old coach. I can do that with an old heavyweight coach that I have with a removable roof so I can work on it, but it also looks like they cut upward toward the roof to enlarge the openings significantly. How on Earth can I enlarge those openings upward and keep all the openings even and straight and identical along the top? The thin piece left across the top would be awfully thin and fragile, and I'd probably break it while trying to enlarge the openings that far upward.
> 
> It seems like there ought to be a better way. All suggestions welcome.
> 
> Never Get Old


Never Get Old;

You might be able to reinforce the thin strip of plastic with a brass angle. I did something similar with some bridges. These are basically ugly scratchbuilt brass bridges with plastic commercial castings glued on the outside for looks. They are super strong and look quite decent; with considerable help from Micro Engineering's girders.
another possibility would be to cut clear out the top and replace the top strip with a brass one.
As far as keeping your window cuts even at the top, couldn't you just clamp a steel straightedge along the line you don't want to cut beyond? It would stop your knife, or saw dead even at each window location.

good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

traction fan said:


> Never Get Old;
> Another possibility would be to cut clear out the top and replace the top strip with a brass one.


I thought about that, but I guess I would have to use a very thin brass strip and glue it to the outside after cutting clean through the top so it doesn't stick out too much. Then I'd have to reinforce each section between the upright pieces by gluing pieces of something behind the brass strip somehow. Not sure how I would do that, but I ought to be able to figure out something. Applying a brass strip to the outside would be the cleanest and easiest I think.



traction fan said:


> As far as keeping your window cuts even at the top, couldn't you just clamp a steel straightedge along the line you don't want to cut beyond? It would stop your knife, or saw dead even at each window location.


I haven't been able to find a way due to how thin the top strip would end up. I think the brass strip suggestion above might be the best idea, unless someone else has a suggestion.

Never Get Old


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

If I wanted a car like that I would scratch build the sides out of strip styrene. Seems like that would be less trouble than trying to modify the existing sides.

Pete


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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

Texas Pete said:


> If I wanted a car like that I would scratch build the sides out of strip styrene. Seems like that would be less trouble than trying to modify the existing sides.
> 
> Pete


I think a lot of people would do that. The only "problem" for me is that I have absolutely no idea how to do that. I've never attempted anything like this before. I'll have to look into that online and see how to do such a thing. I'm sure there are articles online, or here.

Never Get Old


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Never Get Old said:


> I think a lot of people would do that. The only "problem" for me is that I have absolutely no idea how to do that. I've never attempted anything like this before. I'll have to look into that online and see how to do such a thing. I'm sure there are articles online, or here.
> 
> Never Get Old


It helps if you can find some plans online. Then you can adjust them to the appropriate size and just duplicate the measurements.

If not, start by making your own sketch. You can either find (or take an educated guess at) the actual dimensions. To estimate, work from a photo taken straight on, with minimal distortion at the edges. Then you can take something of known dimensions -- such as the wheels being 36" -- and guesstimate the rest from that size.

If you have a scale ruler -- it's a ruler marked in "scale" feet and inches rather than real ones, so an N scale foot is 0.072-ish inches on the ruler -- that's very helpful, because you can just lay everything out in scale measurements rather than converting everything. 

Making a mock up out of cardstock or foam core first will let you see a 3D version to see if it looks "right" to you.

You will need to use fairly thin styrene, but you can add strips and angles to reinforce it on the inside.

On the finished model, ribs, rivets, grab irons, etc can be modeled using decals, thin wire, and (for ribs and rivets) by making an indentation on the INSIDE of the styrene. 

Of course, you also need the right tools to work in styrene: hobby knife, files, clamps, pin vise & bits, probably a nibbler, etc. You could even cannibalize the roof and floor / trucks / wheels from an existing car of known dimensions.

But it would be a fun project. Give it a try!


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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

Thanks CTValleyRR. I think I have most of the tools, and I definitely have the ability to make a template that I can build on top of. It sounds like I'd have to order a lot of styrene and do a whole lot of piecing together.

If anyone is wondering, that car is one from the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad. I have no problem with the real dimensions or photos as I visit every year and have plenty of photos and can take actual measurements. I also don't really care if it's 100% accurate. I think "80% accurate" is "believable enough" for me. To that end, I took a chance and ordered a European style, really old Lima produced car today. It has windows that are larger and go much higher than American cars. I may be able to get away with cutting out every other window pillar. It won't make 9 windows, but it may be "believable" to me. We will see.

I already kitbashed the "Carolina Shine" car by changing the roof on a corrugated mid-dome car. They have a car named "Cherokee" that's just a basic heavyweight. The caboose is a no brainer, as is the generator car, which is just a modified bay window caboose. I can fake it with their "Sylva" car using an old Atlas diner modified. The locomotive is their GP-30, although I'd also like to do their 2-8-0 steam loco. Soooooooooo ... that leaves me in need of the open air "Nantahala" car and maybe another open air "Wildwater" car.

The decals are simply unavailable, so I have done all of the artwork for everything. That was an incredibly time consuming project to do in vector graphics. The caboose logo in particular was a real pain to draw. I have found someone who will print enough for three whole trains on one 8.5 x 11" sheet, which is one of the advantages of the small size of N scale.

The prototype is here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?road=GSMR

Surely someone else has ridden this scenic train in the Smoky Mountains?

-Never Get Old


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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

Hey, if anyone knows what these cars actually are (were) and knows of models of them commercially available and ready to be modified, please let me know.

Modeling a whole train - ESPECIALLY when decals are not available - is a whole lot of work. I think a lot of people would just buy a few miscellaneous passenger cars and call it "good enough" but I'd like to get somewhere "reasonably" close. It's a good thing I am comfortable drawing the decals and half way decent with my airbrush. 

-Never Get Old


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Brass strips or brass car*



Never Get Old said:


> I think a lot of people would do that. The only "problem" for me is that I have absolutely no idea how to do that. I've never attempted anything like this before. I'll have to look into that online and see how to do such a thing. I'm sure there are articles online, or here.
> 
> Never Get Old


 Never Get Old;

Do you have the car? If you do, and want to modify it, Use two, or even three, brass strips. One inside that projects a bit beyond the last window opening at both ends of the car. One on the outside, the same length as the inside one. The third strip would be cut to fit between the plastic walls of the car and the exact length of the overall opening for the entire line of windows. 
Solder the three together with the two longer strips even with each other, and the middle one centered lengthwise between them. You can now remove the thin, flimsy, plastic strip from above the line of windows. Slip the projecting ends of the outer strips to straddle the plastic walls at both ends. You can super glue the brass in place, and then use that as the end of cut point for all the taller window openings. 
If, on the other hand, you would prefer an all-brass car, you can use the plastic car as a template. Lay the car on top of a brass sheet and carefully scribe all the window openings and the top, bottom, and end lines for the entire car side. Then cut out the windows. You now have a car side. Make the other side the same way. Then fabricate ends, floor and roof from brass using dimensions measured from the original plastic car. Actually the two sides and two ends can be one, continuous strip of brass, folded at each corner.
Another thing I've done is to rub an impression of the car side in copper foil. This shows every rivet in a heavyweight car. You can try this with aluminum foil just to try the technique. The foil would need to be attached to a brass car side for strength. With the smooth sided car you're making, this foil side business would be pointless. I just didn't want to punch a zillion rivet heads by hand.
as far as identifying the equipment in your photos, I can tell you, with complete confidence, that one is a heavyweight coach, one is a caboose, and one is a diesel locomotive. Now isn't that a big help?:laugh:

good Luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

It looks to me like that open air car was fashioned from a baggage car, not a coach.

If you already have a car, you can enlarge the openings using a nibbling cutter (like this: https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Life...id=1516165895&sr=8-1&keywords=nibbling+cutter).

You insert the small protrusion into a hole in your model and gently nibble the material away, then clean up the edge with a file. If there isn't a hole, you can drill one (1/4", which is already pretty big on an N scale car).

You can also cut the whole opening out, and reinstall it using strip styrene.

So, yes, go to the hobbyn shop or your favorite online retailer and order up a supply of styrene in various shapes and thicknesses.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

CTValleyRR said:


> It looks to me like that open air car was fashioned from a baggage car, not a coach.
> 
> If you already have a car, you can enlarge the openings using a nibbling cutter (like this: https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Life...id=1516165895&sr=8-1&keywords=nibbling+cutter).
> 
> ...


Oooohhh... i like this tool. I have some thign similar for sheet metal in the garage, air powered. always wanted a teeny version of it!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

santafealltheway said:


> Oooohhh... i like this tool. I have some thign similar for sheet metal in the garage, air powered. always wanted a teeny version of it!


Yep. I love mine.


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