# Nce decoders any good?



## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

Hello, I'm wondering are nce 8 pin ( non sound ) dcc only decoders any good? Ide like to hear the good and if any, the bad replys. I want to make my dcc ready 80 ton three truck shay , dcc. I like the fact that they are 4 function decoders, and they don't cost alot. However purchasing one only depends on your replys. 

The other question I have, may sound odd to most. but the bachmann decoder for this shay, is rated at 1 amp. And I see the nce is rated at 1.3 amps. Can I use this decoder? If I hade to guess ,I'd say I can, as long as it's not rated lower in amps than the bachmann decoder. Please correct me if I'm wrong . 

Oh one more thing. When a decoder says it's a 2 OR 4 function decoder, is that referring to the maximum number of light out puts you can operate on a single decoder , or does it mean something else? Thank you...


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

NCE makes great products. They are my number one choice. I buy these in 10 packs for $119 at my LHS: D13SRJ 1.3 Amp, 4 function, 9 pin plug. Use them to convert almost any HO locomotive. Only issue I have ever had was due to my own fault not theirs. Their customer service is great. They are made in Webster, NY. They have another version that does not use the plug.

The amp rating is for what the maximum consistent amp draw that the decoder is rated to handle. As a general rule you want the decoder to have a higher rating than the motor. This said if it is the same you should be OK with a quality decoder. There should also be a max amp rating. That needs to be higher than the stall amp draw of the motor. This is what the decoder can handle for a brief period of time. The one I prefer has a peak rating of 2.0 amps. Be careful of this rating as it does mean a limited period at that rating. IE the motor jams and you have time to kill the power without it frying the decoder, if it sits it will fry the decoder.

The way I determine what decoder to use is not by what a manufacture tells me the ratings should be. Note that each locomotive is not 100% identical and wear may effect the efficiency over time. I first hook an amp meter to a DC track. Run the locomotive at full throtal and see what it draws. This is the consistent amp rating (1.3 in the example above). Next I stall the locomotive by stopping the wheels from turning, pressing down briefly etc., this is the stall amp rating (2.0). Now I know what the locomotive takes. Next I completely clean and lube the locomotive. This will decrease the amp draw, and it is apart anyways so why not. Now it is ready to add the decoder.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I have a question...do you plan on adding other features (extra lights or else) to your loco?Can you handle hardwire soldering?If no to either,this decoder (though a good one) is not the right one for your engine.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

TKRUGER
Thank you for the info. I greatly appreciate it. Can you also tell me if the number of functions a decoder has, for instance 2 or 4 functions. Is that referring to lighting outputs?


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

BRAKEMAN JAKE 
no I won't be adding extra lights. Yes I'm great at soldering. However why do you say there not a good decoder for me? They do have decoders with the 8 pin plug on them ,if that's why you say there not good for me. Just wondering now ,incase there's something I don't understand . I am a Newby on this dcc stuff. But thanks to all you people that reply to me, I am understanding more and more. And I also thank you for your support. Greatly appreciated ....


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Number of function is an indication of the number of controllable task it can perform other than the basic motor control. 2 function has basic forward and revers lights. 4 adds the ability for beacons, ditch lights etc. Since I am converting older locomotives I have to date only used 2 of the 4 functions on mine. 

I would recommend using LEDs when possible. Some of the older bulbs may get hot enough to damage a shell if it is to close to it or the plastic is to thin.

As for 8/9 pin socet verses soldering it is up to you. Most newer locos have a plug in them that you can just plug the decoder into, no solder needed. Older ones do not have this plug. For these you need to add a plug (my preference) or hard wire it. I prefer to add a plug so that if something goes wrong I can swap a decoder to troubleshoot. No other reason than that. NCE makes some models that are the same decoder but one comes with a plug / harness and the other is to be hardwired.

If you are comfortable soldering either should be OK for you. Just make sure the motor is electrically isolated from the frame and power pickups.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I was talking about the specific D13SRJ decoder...it has a nine pin (not eight) connector and comes with a suitable 9 wire harness.You could use it one of two ways:

-Remove the original board from the loco and hardwire it in or...
-Have an eight pin connecter soldered to the 7 proper wires to keep the board.

I suppose we're discussing the same loco from another post (Bachmann Shay),so if you go the hardwire route,you'll lose the already functioning fire box flicker and have to re-activate it with one the decoder's extra feature.It would then be manually controllable,but more work and proper decoder programming to make it work.

If you chose to solder an eight pin connector to the wires,everything should work as on DC (with manual light control).However,if you want to keep the original board,TCS and Soundtrax make simple eight pin boards that just plug in,no solder,no work.NCE probably make some too.These are two function decoders but since you don't want extra functions on this loco,a four function decoder is useless anyway.

It's your loco...you do as you wish,I'm just suggesting the simplest way.....


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

NCE decoders are fine I have a couple, plus if you have a NCE controller there additional features you can activate. You don't want to go to all the trouble of hardwiring do you? Then why not go for the TCS decoder I showed you in the link and BJ suggests? Plug it in, cut the resistor as shown and you're ready to go. As I said in my previous post if good slow speed performance is important use a Lenz, which is also plug and play. I also have a TCS and that performs well too.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

CYCLEOPS 
I was just wondering how good the nce decoders where because they are more price friendly . I haven't ruled out the tcs as you and bj suggested. I'm just looking for all possibilities, as I'm learning all this new technology.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

TKRUGER, 
BRAKEMAN JAKE , 
CYCLEOPS , 
I would like to send you all a HUGE thank you for putting up with me,and for all the great advice on this thread. I am more confident on dcc locos now, because of great people like you. I've learned a lot in the while I've been on this forum. Again thank you... ( ALASKA RAILROAD )


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

No probs, and good luck.


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## Roundhouse Foreman (Jan 6, 2015)

I have personally installed 15 or more NCE D13SR decoders, mostly in older Rivarossi steam engines and the ONLY thing I DON'T like are the STIFF WIRES. They tend to break off at the decoder if there are more than a few ons and offs of the cover or other things that involve moving the decoder. A softer cased more flexible wire would improve things a thousand percent for decoders that don't have a real HOME to plug in to. 
FWIW

RHF


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Roundhouse Foreman said:


> I have personally installed 15 or more NCE D13SR decoders, mostly in older Rivarossi steam engines and the ONLY thing I DON'T like are the STIFF WIRES. They tend to break off at the decoder if there are more than a few ons and offs of the cover or other things that involve moving the decoder. A softer cased more flexible wire would improve things a thousand percent for decoders that don't have a real HOME to plug in to.
> FWIW
> 
> RHF


Exactly! I've had the very same thing. They don't stand much handling, its very disappointing.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

Good to no that thanks (ROUNDHOUSE FOREMAN & CYCLEOPS ). is this wire stiffness true to all nce decoders, or some ? Thanks, ALASKA RAILROAD.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I use Digitrax decoders. They use a very flexible stranded wire.

Don


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## Roundhouse Foreman (Jan 6, 2015)

What I did do to improve things was to remove stock wiring and replace it with old mouse cable wires as suggested in an online site with no further problems. And as time permits I will go back and replace the original wires already installed and working to be on the safe side.
NCE has come out with a much smaller decoder. I hope they are NOT using the same wires on these as the 13's.

RHF


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Their wire seems to have, well, very little actual wire inside. I also replaced mine. How much money can they save by doing this? It just translates into poor feedback like this for the company.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I've had wires breaking from the only NCE decoder I ever had.I thought it was an exception...seems it's not so.......good to know though.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

Yes it's very disappointing. I say, if your not going to take pride in your products you make, then don't do it.CYCLEOPS hit the nail on the head. It only brings bad feedback , then they start losing business. Not a good thing. I'm glad you all brought this to my attention, being I'm just learning what's good, and what's bad in dcc. Thank you all..


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Roundhouse Foreman said:


> I have personally installed 15 or more NCE D13SR decoders, mostly in older Rivarossi steam engines and the ONLY thing I DON'T like are the STIFF WIRES. They tend to break off at the decoder if there are more than a few ons and offs of the cover or other things that involve moving the decoder. A softer cased more flexible wire would improve things a thousand percent for decoders that don't have a real HOME to plug in to.
> FWIW
> 
> RHF


Theses are the same decoders that you can get with the 9 pin harness. I have always used the ones that come with the harness and never had this issue. The wires on the hardness are plenty durable. This said I would not go pulling on them to unplug the decoder, I pull on the plug itself. The other advantage to using the harness ones is that if you need to trouble shoot something you can easily swap the decoder with any standard one taking that plug. Makes sound upgrades easy too if there is room for a speaker later on.


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## Roundhouse Foreman (Jan 6, 2015)

Wonder why the differing wire qualities from the manufacturer for similar items, ah outsourced plugs maybe?

RHF


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Of course you could avoid all the problems with NCE wire by buying one of their direct plug decoders with no wires, if you have the clearance.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

CYCLEOPS 
Now being I am referring to my bachmann 80 ton three truck shay , it only has a 8 pin on the light board. ( no separate wire harness ). I would have to purchase a separate 8 pin wire harness , wouldn't I to use a non wire harness decoder?


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

what about the quality of the Digitrax DH126D. is that a decent first decoder to install in a train that is not DCC ready


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The eight pin connector is standardized so that a single decoder can fit litterally dozens of model locomotives from any manufacturer.True,they are two function basic decoders but for someone who doesn't want more,they get the job done just fine without any modification to the engine.No wire handling,no solder or else.

Not modifying the loco is a plus to me.If one should want to upgrade to sound in the future once a proper sound decoder is available,the retrofit should be an easy one.And the eight pin ecoder can be removed and reused in another loco with anything required being a re-programming.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You don't need a separate harness, with a 'direct fit' decoder the board has the the pins attached which plug directly into the female plug on the loco- no wires. Refer back to the TCS installation.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

Oh silly me. Thanks cycleops , I forgot that style of decoder . ☺


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