# Cheapest [DCC] Basic Decoders (No Sound) Presently Available.. [HO] Scale..



## ED-RRR

*[HO] Scale:*
There must be some new beginners trying to figure out how *[DCC]* locomotive decoders actually compare ($'s) to each other..
It also looks like *[DCC] *decoders (Without Sound) are “Now” becoming much harder to find.. 
I hope some of this information will clarify some of your questions..
I will be "Only" posting "Basic" 8-Pin NMRA (National Model Railroad Standards) wiring standards..









*Special Note: *
The "Basic" *[DCC]* locomotive decoders do *"Not"* come with "Sound"..

*[DCC] *decoders (Without Sound) US $20.00 --> US $34.25
Not "All" *[DCC]* decoders have the "Same Options".. (Extra F# Functions)..









*Digitrax:*
http://www.digitrax.com/
Does *"Not"* manufacture a *[DCC]* decoder (Without Sound)..

*QSI:*
http://www.qsisolutions.com/
Does *"Not"* manufacture a *[DCC]* decoder (Without Sound)..

*MRC:*
http://www.modelrectifier.com/Default.asp
Now only manufactures (x1) *[DCC] *decoder (Without Sound)..
0001651 [HO] Decoder with JST Connector/Adapter
MSRP: $32.98
On the internet between US $20.00 --> US $30.00









*ESU Lok Pilot:*
http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokpilot/
- LokPilot V4.0 (#54610) multiprotocol decoder (MM/DCC/SX), with 8-pin plug according to NEM652
- LokPilot V4.0 DCC (#54611) decoder, with 8-pin plug according to NEM 652x4 models
- LokPilot V4.0 M4 (#64610) multiprotocol MM/DCC/SX/M4, 8-pin plug NEM652
- LokPilot Standard (#53611) 8 pole plug per NEM652, wire harness, 4 amplified outputs 

*Special Notes:*
Go to: 
http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokpilot/
and click the picture of the [DCC] decoder for "Detailed Information"..
The "Model #" will show what type of "Wire Connector" is used..

*Train World:*
http://www.trainworld.com
- ESU (#53611) LokPilot Standard DCC, 8 pole plug per NEM652, wire harness, 4 amplified outputs, = US $20.99
- ESU (#54611) LokPilot V4.0 DCC decoder, with 8-pin plug according to NEM 652, = US $29.99
*Tony's Train Xchange:*
https://tonystrains.com
- ESU (#64610 ) LokPilot Micro V4.0, Multiprotocol MM,DCC,SX Decoder, 8Pin, NEM652 = US $34.25
*DCC Hobby Supply:*
http://dcchobbysupply.com
- ESU (#53611) LokPilot Standard DCC, w/ 8-Pin Plug, = US $19.99
- ESU (#54610) LokPilot V4.0, multiprotocol decoder (MM/DCC/SX), with 8-pin plug, = US $30.95
- ESU (#54611) LokPilot V4.0, with 8-pin plug, = US $27.95









......


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## ED-RRR

*[DCC] Basic Decoders (8 Pin Wiring Instructions)..*

*Special Notes:*
*(#1)*
All commercially made 8-Pin *[DCC]* decoders are "Manufactured" to NMRA (National Model Railroad Standards) wiring standards..
*(#2)*
All commercially made 8-Pin *[DCC] *decoders are "Wired" exactly the same..









*Wiring Instructions: "From Locomotive"*
= 8-Jack (Female Connector)..









*Wiring Instructions: "From Decoder"*
= 8-Pin (Male Connector)..









......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *Digitrax:*
> http://www.digitrax.com/
> Does *"Not"* manufacture a *[DCC]* decoder (Without Sound)..


Actually, they do ..quite a few
You may have missed it because they call the NMRA 8 pin connector a Medium DCC Plug, which is the same .

The low cost choice there is the DH126P, retail $23.00, on ebay today starting from 16.99 ..
link to Digitrax page for this one:
http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh126p/


NCE have the D13SRP, again a low cost decoder with the 8 pin plug ..

As well, TCS have a few entry models, but the decoder to loco harness with a 8 pin plug is apparently a separate item


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## ED-RRR

*[wvgca] Cheaper [DCC] Decoders..*



wvgca said:


> Actually, they do .. quite a few
> *You may have missed *it because they call the NMRA 8 pin connector a Medium DCC Plug, which is the same..
> DH166P, retail $23.00


--> *On Ebay *--> Starting from 16.99 = (+ Higher Bids To Come)..

*[wvgca]:* Questions
*(#1)*
Why are you posting "Old" outdated [DCC] decoders on Ebay ??
*(#2)*
Why have you "Not" even mentioned about your:
"Thread" --> *Curious: making my own DCC decoder*
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=91449
Without any direct "Technical Help" ??
......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> --> *On Ebay *--> Starting from 16.99 = (+ Higher Bids To Come)..
> 
> *[wvgca]:* Questions
> *(#1)*
> Why are you posting "Old" outdated [DCC] decoders on Ebay ??
> *(#2)*
> Why have you "Not" even mentioned about your:
> "Thread" --> *Curious: making my own DCC decoder*
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=91449
> Without any direct "Technical Help" ??
> ......


the item I mentioned was a 'buy it now' price, no bidding, 

The digitrax model I mentioned is a currently available offering from Digitrax, DH126P, available to everyone

I saw no need to mention my decoder for two reasons ..
1] it does not have a 652 / Medium DCC / NMRA 8 pin plug as standard ..
2] Is not a mainline manufactured retail offering available to everyone


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## Peter Herron

I'm curious, ED-RRR. Do you argue with yourself and practice in a mirror?? Come on.

Peter


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## time warp

Peter Herron said:


> I'm curious, ED-RRR. Do you argue with yourself and practice in a mirror?? Come on.
> 
> Peter


Post#1 should include" generally speaking" and " you may find some variations"
Post #4 should have said" thank you for the information, I was not aware of that"
None of us are perfect ED, not even you. It's okay to comment.Now you're dragging W's subject through 3 threads.


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## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> Why have you "Not" even mentioned about your:
> "Thread" --> *Curious: making my own DCC decoder*
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=91449
> Without any direct "Technical Help" ??
> ......


Why are you so obsessed with his project? Don't you have anything to occupy your time?


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## Cycleops

Peter Herron said:


> I'm curious, ED-RRR. Do you argue with yourself and practice in a mirror?? Come on.
> 
> Peter


:laugh:I think you may be right. You'll never win with this guy Peter.


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## Cycleops

ED-RRR said:


> *[HO] Scale:*
> 
> *Digitrax:*
> http://www.digitrax.com/
> Does *"Not"* manufacture a *[DCC]* decoder (Without Sound)..
> 
> ......


As wvgca points out they make quite a range of non sound decoders. You are thinking of SOUNDTRAXX. Oh dear ED, I thought you only posted facts. Not very helpful for a beginner.


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## redman88

Cycleops said:


> As wvgca points out they make quite a range of non sound decoders. You are thinking of SOUNDTRAXX. Oh dear ED, I thought you only posted facts. Not very helpful for a beginner.




Sorry soundtraxx does make a DCC decoder that is non sound. MC2H1040P had to go look just to make sure you were posting facts.


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## wvgca

Cycleops said:


> As wvgca points out they make quite a range of non sound decoders. .


Yes, but there are few that fit into ED-RRR's requirement list ..

He is only considering decoders that come factory fitted with the ordinary 8 pin plug, and readily available to any purchaser ..

He is also focusing on what a beginner would consider, in many cases based primarily on purchase price ..

Examples shown so far are primarily North America offerings, across the water DCC Concepts, Hornby, Lenz, and Hatton are common as well , and quite likely more brands as well ..


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## wvgca

redman88 said:


> Sorry soundtraxx does make a DCC decoder that is non sound. MC2H1040P had to go look just to make sure you were posting facts.



I totally missed that one when I was looking a bit ..

For some reason I didn't associate SoundTraxx with a low cost basic decoder ..:dunno:

High Country Hobbies shows that available for only $19.16, part number is 852003, and the lowest price Ebay buy it now listing was more money at $22.36 ..

With four functions and load compensation, this seems like a pretty good buy for any one ..


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## Tom17

How about Soundtrax:
https://tonystrains.com/product/soundtraxx-mc1h102p8-ho-scale-2-function-decoder-852001/

Or TCS :
https://tonystrains.com/product/tcs...micro-decoder-with-medium-harness-8-pin-plug/
https://tonystrains.com/product/train-control-systems-dp2x/

On TCS site:
http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/DP-Series/DP-Series.htm
Digitrax:
http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh165ip/

Even Bachmann has one:
http://www.trainworld.com/manufactu...tive-95mm-decoder-with-nmra-8-pin-plug-44926/

There are more that you can find if you really searched.

http://billstrains.com/product.php?productid=18492&cat=542&page=1


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## crusader27529

gunrunnerjohn: Please don't ever block ED-RRR from the forum....his posts are the high point of my day (being comical here)!

I have so much fun tring to figure out what he's posting, that it's almost like a brain teaser puzzle that makes your mind work hard just to determine what he's talking about, let alone figuring out the sense of it.

I've been unable to determine ANY sense to his replies so far.........but I persist for some unknown reason....maybe because I'm retired and have alot of time to waste!


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## time warp

crusader27529 said:


> gunrunnerjohn: Please don't ever block ED-RRR from the forum....his posts are the high point of my day (being comical here)!
> 
> I have so much fun tring to figure out what he's posting, that it's almost like a brain teaser puzzle that makes your mind work hard just to determine what he's talking about, let alone figuring out the sense of it.
> 
> I've been unable to determine ANY sense to his replies so far.........but I persist for some unknown reason....maybe because I'm retired and have alot of time to waste!


Excellent attitude!:appl:

Tom17, Are you implying that there MAY be people on this forum with intelligence and experience?:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Tom17

I sure hope there are some on this site with intelligence and experience, that why I come to this site.
I have a Bachmann SD40-2 that has only the 8-Pin NMRA on it, so I did some research to find some decoders for it.
I used some of the same sites he did and found some that he missed.


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## ED-RRR

*More --> Cheaper [DCC] Basic Decoders (No Sound) Presently Available.. [HO] Scale..*



wvgca said:


> Actually, they do ..quite a few
> You may have missed it because they call the NMRA 8 pin connector a Medium DCC Plug, which is the same .
> The low cost choice there is the DH126P, retail $23.00, on ebay today starting from 16.99 ..
> link to Digitrax page for this one:
> http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh126p/


This Ebay seller is posting *"Incorrect"* information..
Ebay sellers also charge much higher shipping costs ($'s) to offset the Ebay % shipping fees..

*Digitrax (DH126P)* 1.5 Amp economy [HO] scale decoder has a --> 9 Pin to DCC Medium Plug 3.0” harness
http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh126p/
--> Go to (PDF) Instruction Sheet..
The Green Wire = F1
The Violet Wire = F2
*NOTE:* The Green wire and Violet wire on this harness are "Not" used by this decoder..
The Digitrax (DH126P) decoder has "No" extra auxiliary F# Functions.. 











wvgca said:


> NCE have the D13SRP, again a low cost decoder with the 8 pin plug ..


*NCE (D13SRP) decoder*
- 8 pin plug
- 1.3 Amp (2 Amp peak) rating
- four function outputs
- eight-pin plug
Traintek:
http://www.traintekllc.com/nce-d13srp-ho-scale-decoder-w-nmra-plug/
*US $19.95*
This decoder has a very poor rating.. (The wires used are "Too" thick and break away from the soldered positions)..











wvgca said:


> As well, TCS have a few entry models, but the decoder to loco harness with a 8 pin plug is apparently a separate item


Did you *[wvgca]* do your homework before posting this ??

*TCS*
http://www.tcsdcc.com/
[HO] Scale..
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/HO Series.htm
The (DP2X) decoder is *US $36.95*
Requires a 8 pin plug harness that TCS does "Not" sell..









......


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## ED-RRR

*Even More --> Cheaper [DCC] Basic Decoders (No Sound) Presently Available.. [HO] Scal*



Tom17 said:


> *How about Soundtrax:*
> https://tonystrains.com/product/soundtraxx-mc1h102p8-ho-scale-2-function-decoder-852001/
> *Or TCS :*
> https://tonystrains.com/product/tcs...micro-decoder-with-medium-harness-8-pin-plug/
> https://tonystrains.com/product/train-control-systems-dp2x/
> *On TCS site:*
> http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/DP-Series/DP-Series.htm
> *Digitrax:*
> http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh165ip/
> *Even Bachmann has one:*
> http://www.trainworld.com/manufactu...tive-95mm-decoder-with-nmra-8-pin-plug-44926/


*[Tom17]: Question*
Why did you "Not" include the pricing ($'s) of each *[DCC] *decoder and if extra *"Hardware"* is required ?? 

*How about SoundTraxx:*
https://tonystrains.com/product/soundtraxx-mc1h102p8-ho-scale-2-function-decoder-852001/
Soundtraxx MC1H102P8 HO-scale, 2-Function Decoder 852001..
Also "Requires" a 8 plug wire harness..
*= US $16.95*

*Or TCS :*
https://tonystrains.com/product/tcs...micro-decoder-with-medium-harness-8-pin-plug/
*= US $37.62*
https://tonystrains.com/product/train-control-systems-dp2x/
Also "Requires" a 8 plug wire harness..
*= US $29.55*

*On TCS site:*
http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/DP-Series/DP-Series.htm
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/HO Series.htm
Requires a 8 pin plug harness that TCS does "Not" sell..
The (DP2X) decoder..
*= US $36.95*

*Even Bachmann has one:*
http://www.trainworld.com/manufactu...tive-95mm-decoder-with-nmra-8-pin-plug-44926/
Bachmann #44926
*Price: $34.99*

......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> Did you *[wvgca]* do your homework before posting this ??
> 
> *TCS*
> http://www.tcsdcc.com/
> [HO] Scale..
> http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Conte...O%20Series.htm
> The (DP2X) decoder is *US $36.95*
> Requires a 8 pin plug harness that TCS does "Not" sell..
> 
> Attachment 220842


Why would you need an 8 pin plug harness for a decoder that's designed for direct plug in application, as your image shows?


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## time warp

May I borrow a shovel?


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## ED-RRR

*Just A Thought..*

Why pay ($'s) for a (No Sound) "Basic" *[DCC] *decoder,
when you can purchase a "Sound Decoder" for just a few more ($'s)..

From my own experiences, there is nothing like having a model train locomotive passing by,
and having the locomotive giving off a "Real Miniature World Sound"..
- A diesel locomotive motor sound with a controlled bell & horn..
- A steam locomotive chuffing with a controlled bell & whistle..

*MRC Sound Decoders..* From US $44.00 --> US $62.00.. (With Included Speaker)..
MRC #1730 = Diesel Sound 
MRC #1731 = Steam Sound 









*P.S.*
I will be also posting a new "Thread" about the "Cheapest" *[DCC]* "Sound Decoders"..
I will also anticipate all the "Negative Feedback" without any proven "Facts" to back up their "Postings"..

......


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## wvgca

Tom17 said:


> I have a Bachmann SD40-2 that has only the 8-Pin NMRA on it, so I did some research to find some decoders for it.


Did you decide on a decoder for your SD40-2 ??
If so, would you mind sharing your reasons for that choice?
thanks


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## Tom17

Why post the price, you just needed to go to the site that has the price right on the page, plus some of the decoders plug right into the board and no wiring required, you just need to plug it in the correct way.

NOTE: The Green wire and Violet wire on this harness are "Not" used by this decoder.

Just like you posted in the first post
http://www.modelrectifier.com/product-p/0001651.htm


Everything that I have posted is correct and you don't believe it and it is right off the manufacturers own web-sites.


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## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> From my own experiences, there is nothing like having a model train locomotive passing by,
> and having the locomotive giving off a "Real Miniature World Sound"..
> - A diesel locomotive motor sound with a controlled bell & horn..
> - A steam locomotive chuffing with a controlled bell & whistle...


Since we have yet to see "anything" that reflects "your own experiences", it's hard to judge what they might be. All we see is criticism of other folks postings and copy-n-paste from the Internet.

I'll bet some might be interested in actually seeing what "your own experiences" look like.


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## ED-RRR

*Dumb Question ??*



wvgca said:


> Why would you need an 8 pin plug harness for a decoder that's designed for direct plug in application, as your image shows?





ED-RRR said:


> *[HO] Scale:*
> There must be some new beginners trying to figure out how *[DCC]* locomotive decoders actually compare ($'s) to each other..
> I hope some of this information will clarify some of your questions..
> *I will be "Only" posting "Basic" 8-Pin NMRA (National Model Railroad Standards) wiring standards..*


*[wvgca]:*
Wake up and smell the coffee !!
I "Only" posted "Basic" 8-Pin NMRA (National Model Railroad Standards) wiring standards,
so "Beginners" using *[DCC]* can have a fully functional *[DCC]* decoder..
--> "Not" requiring any special "Soldering Connections" for the (x8) wires from the *[DCC]* decoder..

*P.S.*
I will "Not" waste any time or energy "Replying" to "Hecklers" in my *[ED-RRR]* "Thread"..
You know who you are, because you have "Not" posted" any actual *[DCC]* decoder "Facts".. 
......


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## Tom17

wvgca said:


> Did you decide on a decoder for your SD40-2 ??
> If so, would you mind sharing your reasons for that choice?
> thanks


I may get http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Train-Control-Systems-1028-DP2X-5-Function-Ou-p/tcs-1028.htm
But at my local hobby store (45 min. away) at the same price.

I have the http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Train-Control-Systems-HO-1335-DP5-BEMF-Decoder-p/tcs-1335.htm
in one of my diesel right now. Bought at the local store.

or http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/NCE-D14SR-Decoder-p/nce-524103.htm.
I will run the SD40-2 in a consist so I do not need to put in a sound decoder to save some money.
I have not decided on a decoder for it yet.

I decided to use the direct plug so I do not have to solder. Some of mine older engines I will have to solder in some of the decoders, which I have done before.


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]:*
> Wake up and smell the coffee !!
> I "Only" posted "Basic" 8-Pin NMRA (National Model Railroad Standards) wiring standards,
> so "Beginners" using *[DCC]* can have a fully functional *[DCC]* decoder..
> --> "Not" requiring any special "Soldering Connections" for the (x8) wires from the *[DCC]* decoder..
> 
> *P.S.*
> I will "Not" waste any time or energy "Replying" to "Hecklers" in my *[ED-RRR]* "Thread"..
> You know who you are, because you have "Not" posted" any actual *[DCC]* decoder "Facts"..
> ......


The image that you posted of the TCS decoder is quite visibly a 'direct plug in' Medium DCC 
connector style ...and no harness is required .. even though previously you stated that 
"_Requires a 8 pin plug harness that TCS does "Not" sell.._" ..Also as it's a direct plug in style .. 
it does NOT require "_any special "Soldering Connections" for the (x8) wires_" ,it doesn't have any!

I would suggest that you spend some time proof reading your posts before hand, to avoid possible 
future embarrassment ..your facts, in regards to this TCS decoder, are simply wrong.


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## time warp

I thought this thread WAS about low cost DCC decoders? Why a new thread?

Maybe I am a --------> [ BEGINNER] "who" needs some {help}®


[ WVGCA] doesn't " mind" helping ( answer) others {questions}π


You [ED-RRR] don't really "want" to "help" anybody.


The [FACTS] are that you "berate" anyone who even -----------------> (asks) a simple "question"


[QUESTION] are you----------> (ED-RRR) more than > "6 feet+ 6 inches" [tall]?


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## gunrunnerjohn

time warp said:


> [QUESTION] are you----------> (ED-RRR) more than > "6 feet+ 6 inches" [tall]?


And weigh 245?


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## wvgca

gunrunnerjohn said:


> And weigh 245?



Ummmm . I'm 6'3", and around 315, still do daily manual labour out at the farm ..
used to be able to load a small block chevy motor into the back of a half ton truck by hand ...
do I qualify ??


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## time warp

Well I'm 6'. I figured Ed was taller than the rest of us, which would explain why he looks down on everybody else.


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## wvgca

time warp said:


> Well I'm 6'. I figured Ed was taller than the rest of us, which would explain why he looks down on everybody else.



sigh. 
guess I don't qualify ..

oh ,, you wondered why a new thread?? 
as far as I can tell, this one is about low cost non sound decoders only with Medium DCC / NEM 652 / NMRA 8pin compatabilty

Sure, why not?


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## Tom17

This is how you install an 8-Pin NMRA decoder, no soldering, no wires using a TCS DP2x decoder

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Cont...W1500_DCC_Ready/Athearn_SW1500_DCC_Ready.html


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## wvgca

ED-RRR
It was suggested to me that it might be good idea to use an oscilliscope to check some of the low cost decoders, maybe just to see how clean the output signals are ?
I don't think it's necessary personally, but wondering what your opinion would be on this?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Tom17 said:


> This is how you install an 8-Pin NMRA decoder, no soldering, no wires using a TCS DP2x decoder
> 
> http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Cont...W1500_DCC_Ready/Athearn_SW1500_DCC_Ready.html


Isn't it amusing that page has a whole bunch of soldering tips when you don't solder to install the decoder?


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## time warp

Who's driving this thing?!!:laugh: ,Low cost, may be available but probably won't fit, install with wire nuts, yeah it's in the catalog but you're a liar, invisible connector thread! :dunno:

I love it! I'm gettin' learned up!:goofball:


Looks like the OP needs a new copy and paste compass! He's marching us off a cliff!:rippedhand:


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## Odyknuck

Simply WoW! Like others i am drawn to Mr. Eds posts. Not sure why however maybe because at one time he was a talking Horse! Mr. Ed you just keep right on entertaining us. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## CTValleyRR

Odyknuck said:


> Simply WoW! Like others i am drawn to Mr. Eds posts. Not sure why however maybe because at one time he was a talking Horse! Mr. Ed you just keep right on entertaining us.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Now he's just at the other end of the animal....


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## ED-RRR

*Sorry --> Correction Required !!*



ED-RRR said:


> *Digitrax (DH126P)* 1.5 Amp economy [HO] scale decoder has a --> 9 Pin to DCC Medium Plug 3.0” harness
> http://www.digitrax.com/products/mobile-decoders/dh126p/
> --> Go to (PDF) Instruction Sheet..
> The Green Wire = F1
> The Violet Wire = F2
> *NOTE:* The Green wire and Violet wire on this harness are "Not" used by this decoder..
> The Digitrax (DH126P) decoder has "No" extra auxiliary F# Functions..













Tom17 said:


> NOTE: The Green wire and Violet wire on this harness are "Not" used by this decoder.
> 
> Just like you posted in the first post
> http://www.modelrectifier.com/product-p/0001651.htm
> 
> *Everything that I have posted is correct and you don't believe it and it is right off the manufacturers own web-sites.*


*For [Tom17] and "Hecklers"..*

*[Tom17]: Question*
Why are you talking about MRC #1651 [HO] DCC Decoder ?? ..(*Retail Price: US $32.98*)..
NOTE: The Brown wire and Green wire on this harness are "Used" used with this decoder.









......


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## ED-RRR

*Assuming ??*



ED-RRR said:


> *TCS*
> http://www.tcsdcc.com/
> [HO] Scale..
> http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/HO Series.htm
> The (DP2X) decoder is *US $36.95*
> Requires a 8 pin plug harness that TCS does "Not" sell..
> ......













wvgca said:


> Why would you need an 8 pin plug harness for a decoder that's designed for direct plug in application,
> as your image shows?


*For [wvgca] and "Hecklers"..*

Why is *[wvgca]* assuming that this European (DP2X) *[DCC]* decoder will fit "Any" and "All" [HO] locomotive circuit boards ??
Will "Not" require a NMRA 8-Pin wire harness for special applications !!

......


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## ED-RRR

*Update Required..*



Tom17 said:


> This is how you install an 8-Pin NMRA decoder, no soldering, no wires using a TCS DP2x decoder
> 
> http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Cont...W1500_DCC_Ready/Athearn_SW1500_DCC_Ready.html


This installation is for HO-Scale Athearn SW1500 DCC Ready uses *TCS DP2X *Digital Decoder and was performed by A.G.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html
--> TCS DP2X Digital Decoder = *US $36.95*

- Athearn SW1500 DCC Ready
- Plug and Play
- TCS (DP2X) Decoder

*[Tom17]: Posting*
Has shown how easy it is to install the TCS (DP2X) Decoder into
- [HO] scale Athearn SW1500 [DCC] ready
- Using the (TCS DP2X) decoder
- Written by A.G.

*[Tom17]: Warning*
You did a "Copy"-N-"Paste" procedure that is "Highly" despised upon in this "Forum"..

*"Only" for the "Hecklers"..*

*Fact: (#1)*
For each "Different" manufactured locomotive, TCS has a "Different" required [DCC] decoder..
The TCS (DP2X) will "Not" fit into "Any" locomotive..

TCS Digital Decoder Installation For [HO] Scale Model Trains..
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html
There are hundreds of different manufactured locomotives posted here..
- And-
See how many locomotives will "Only" accept the TCS (DP2X) decoder..

*Fact: (#2)*
This "Thread" --> Cheapest [DCC] Basic Decoders (No Sound) Presently Available.. [HO] Scale..
The other posted [DCC] decoders sure are getting much more costly ($'s).. 

*Question: Again*
Why would I pay US $29.50 for just a basic [DCC] TCS (DP2X) decoder,
*- When -*
I can purchase a MRC "Sound Decoder" for "Only" US $44.00 (With Included Speaker) ??
MRC #1730 = Diesel Sound 
MRC #1731 = Steam Sound 

......


----------



## ED-RRR

*Blind Leading The Blind..*

So this is what *"Model Train Forum"* has now become..
A "Multimedia" web site..
*Forum Rules:*
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not intentionally post any material which is false, 
defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, *harassing, *obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, 
invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.









......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *Fact: (#1)*
> The TCS (DP2X) will "Not" fit into "Any" locomotive..
> 
> ......


I don't see any reason why a direct plug decoder would not fit "most" locomotives, but if I'm wrong .....
The QUESTION =>
So why did you post that image in the first place if it was not relevant to the thread topic??:dunno:


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## johnfl68

wvgca said:


> ED-RRR
> It was suggested to me that it might be good idea to use an oscilliscope to check some of the low cost decoders, maybe just to see how clean the output signals are ?
> I don't think it's necessary personally, but wondering what your opinion would be on this?


You can't go suggesting that ED-RRR use an oscilloscope, he thinks that only "Electrical Engineers" have them and can use them, and that nobody in the model railroad hobby would possibly own an oscilloscope and know how to use it (even though many of us do own and use oscilloscopes all the time).


----------



## time warp

I appreciate all the " help" I've received on this thread. Of course I'm having to use the Braille app on my phone because not only am I blind I am also a moron.
I now know that I can only use domestic, low cost decoders with connectors that aren't there, and as long as I live within the confines of the North American continent I am included in the information available.
Also, foreign made decoders can't be used because they are foreign made, and even though there are connectors there are no connectors, which need soldered.
Further, though I may be on a budget, I have to spend more money to buy a decoder with sound and a speaker. I am not allowed to build my own decoder, either.
I apparently need an adapter harness, or plug to solder on as long as I don't solder.
Got it!


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## johnfl68

ED-RRR said:


> *Fact: (#1)*
> For each "Different" manufactured locomotive, TCS has a "Different" required [DCC] decoder..
> The TCS (DP2X) will "Not" fit into "Any" locomotive..


Hmmm, maybe you should tell this guy, who clearly shows it being installed into a Walthers SW1.





Your Kung-Fu is not strong.


----------



## ED-RRR

*??????*



wvgca said:


> I don't see any reason why a direct plug decoder would not fit "most" locomotives, but if I'm wrong .....


*[wvgca]:* Question
Did you actually read and understand my *[ED-RR]* postings ??
- Posting #41
- Posting #42

*- OR -*

*[wvgca]:* Question
Why are you “Acting” liking a "Politician", constantly trying to "Change" the "Main Subject" ??
Since I am a "Double Analytical" individual, I can easily see how *[wvgca]* can easily "Manipulate" others in this "Forum"..
......


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## Odyknuck

You mean like you constantly do! Just sayin. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Tom17

Remember this thread is about using the basic 8-Pin NMRA socket and no sound.

The DP2X will fit any locomotive that have the 8-Pin NMRA socket like my Bachmann SD40-2 which has only the 8-Pin NMRA.
The DP2X-UK is for UK model locomotives.
I copy and paste links to websites just like you do. Some like Athearn has the 8-Pin NMRA and the 9 pin also so do I have a choice of which decoder to use in it. If I what to I can change the whole board too.


----------



## Mark R.

ED-RRR said:


> View attachment 221370
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *For [wvgca] and "Hecklers"..*
> 
> Why is *[wvgca]* assuming that this European (DP2X) *[DCC]* decoder will fit "Any" and "All" [HO] locomotive circuit boards ??
> Will "Not" require a NMRA 8-Pin wire harness for special applications !!
> 
> ......


How come I see no less than 52 different engines on TCS's site that recommends the DP2X (NOT the DP2X-EU) decoder as an option when you claim it is only for one ?

Mark.


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## Mark R.

ED-RRR said:


> *Fact: (#1)*
> For each "Different" manufactured locomotive, TCS has a "Different" required [DCC] decoder..
> The TCS (DP2X) will "Not" fit into "Any" locomotive..
> 
> ......


It's not a REQUIRED decoder. An 8 pin socket is a universal NMRA compliant socket that ANY decoder with an 8 pin plug will fit into. The only variable is if it will physically fit - which in most cases they will.

Mark.


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## Mark R.

ED-RRR said:


> I can purchase a MRC "Sound Decoder" for "Only" US $44.00 (With Included Speaker) ??
> MRC #1730 = Diesel Sound
> MRC #1731 = Steam Sound
> 
> ......


Sure - and it will sound and function like a $44.00 sound decoder. I've lost count of how many of those things I've thrown in the garbage !

Mark.


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]:* Question
> Did you actually read and understand my *[ED-RR]* postings ??
> - Posting #41
> - Posting #42


This thread had specific decoder requirements in the first post..
A] Low Cost
B] Readily Available
C] Used only the NMRA 8 pin plug ..

The TCS model / version that _*YOU*_ posted an image of clearly meets those requirements ...
Unless there are other requirements that you decided not to specify??
Also, I assume that you realize that the only main difference there is between that series of TCS decoder between the North American and European versions is the orientation of the connector plug, you can call it a NMRA 8 pin, or NEM 652, I call it a Medium DCC


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## time warp

So,Warren. What occurred between post #1 and post# 54 to qualify those criteria?


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## wvgca

time warp said:


> So,Warren. What occurred between post #1 and post# 54 to qualify those criteria?


No idea really,:stroke:

But as near as I can figure out, an additional 'requirement" was apparantly added some where [ without being actually specified] that decoders either have to have a 'wire harness, either factory fitted, or as an available factory option ., to qualify for being considered in this thread ... 

And so 'direct plug in' decoders meeting the NMRA specification for the 8 pin plug format, may not qualify ...

If it matters, I don't have any TCS brand decoders, nor any 'direct plug in style decoders, never have as far as I recall

Being curious though, I would like to hook up a scope, and see if there is any degradation of DCC signal, by checking the decoder and NMRA plug simultaneously, with possible harness lengths from one to six inches, as commonly fitted ..
If there is any measurable difference, it may possibly imply that the 'direct plug in' style may be preferable to a harness fitted style


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## time warp

It is certain that being able to "see" wave form and voltage characteristics via an O- scope can be very beneficial. Actually it might be good to start a thread on the subject. 
Extremely advanced stuff!


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## time warp

W, If I remember right you have a dual trace, don't you? Even a single trace would be fine for advanced electronics.
It would be good to see both the track AC, and the DC simultaneously. Eliminate a lot of backpedaling.
Maybe you could snapshot some of your home brew decoder results.


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## ED-RRR

*More [DCC] Decoder Information.. (No Sound)..*



Tom17 said:


> Remember this thread is about using the basic *8-Pin NMRA socket and no sound.*
> 
> The DP2X will fit any locomotive that have the 8-Pin NMRA socket like my Bachmann SD40-2 which has only the 8-Pin NMRA.
> The DP2X-UK is for *UK model locomotives.*
> *I copy and paste links to websites just like you do.*
> Some like Athearn has the 8-Pin NMRA and the 9 pin also so do I have a choice of which decoder to use in it. If I what to I can change the whole board too.


*Warning:*
Many *[DCC]* decoder manufactures no longer post "Instructions" on the internet, because the required instructions are being constantly *"Changed"*..
The required *[DCC]* instructions are "Only" included with the purchased *[DCC] *decoder package..

Special Note:
--> TCS DP2X Digital Decoder (No Sound) = Retail price US $36.95
......


----------



## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *Warning:*
> Many *[DCC]* decoder manufactures no longer post "Instructions" on the internet, because the required instructions are being constantly *"Changed"*..
> The required *[DCC]* instructions are "Only" included with the purchased *[DCC] *decoder package..
> ......


 If the required instructions are "Only" included with the decoder, does this mean that instructions posted on the internet may not be properly updated, and may, in some cases be partially or completely incorrect?


----------



## johnfl68

ED-RRR said:


> *Warning:*
> Many *[DCC]* decoder manufactures no longer post "Instructions" on the internet, because the required instructions are being constantly *"Changed"*..
> The required *[DCC]* instructions are "Only" included with the purchased *[DCC] *decoder package..
> 
> Special Note:
> --> TCS DP2X Digital Decoder (No Sound) = Retail price US $36.95
> ......



Did you even look?

You can click on the words highlighted with the Red Boxes, and I was able to get clear instructions for the TCS DP2X.
https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/DP-Series/DP-Series.htm


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## time warp

NOW WAIT A COTTON PICKIN' MINUTE!!

Ed, you said that you only posted facts that you found on the internet, right?

Do you expect us all to believe that Johnfl68 has a computer that tells lies?

I'm a blind moron, and even I can see that!


Now we're on to " instructions that are there but aren't really there"?


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## ED-RRR

*Cheapest Basic [DCC] Decoder..*



wvgca said:


> This thread had specific decoder requirements in the first post..
> A] Low Cost
> B] Readily Available
> C] Used only the NMRA 8 pin plug ..
> 
> The TCS model / version that *YOU* posted an image of *clearly meets those requirements *...


*[wvgca]:* *Question*
Where did I *[ED-RRR]* ever post that that a TCS *[DCC] *decoder..*(DP2X) *decoder,
clearly met my requirements for a basic a cheap ($'s) *[DCC]* decoder ??

*(DP2X) [DCC] Decoder:*
TCS [DCC] decoder.. (DP2X) decoder..
*Retail Price = US $36.95*

......


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## time warp

Public service announcement:

Effective 10-1- 16 through 10-31-16
Orange and black highlighting will be mandatory Because of the halloween holiday.

Effective 12-1-16 through 12-31-16
Red and green highlighting will be required in observance of the Christmas holiday.

Un banned members are included in this requirement.

Thank you


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]:* *Question*
> Where did I *[ED-RRR]* ever post that that a TCS *[DCC] *decoder..*(DP2X) *decoder,
> clearly met my requirements for a basic a cheap ($'s) *[DCC]* decoder ??
> ......


 In post #17 of this thread, you had posted an image of that decoder, along with the statement "Requires a 8 pin plug harness that TCS does "Not" sell.."

So, is there a 'new', and 'non stated' requirement that for decoders to be considered, they MUST have a wiring harness fitted at the factory ??
It DOES meet all stated requirements to this point?

You want to make rules , fine, but don't change them without notice, or qualifying statements later on ...


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## Mark R.

wvgca said:


> In post #17 of this thread, you had posted an image of that decoder, along with the statement "Requires a 8 pin plug harness that TCS does "Not" sell.."
> 
> So, is there a 'new', and 'non stated' requirement that for decoders to be considered, they MUST have a wiring harness fitted at the factory ??
> It DOES meet all stated requirements to this point?
> 
> You want to make rules , fine, but don't change them without notice, or qualifying statements later on ...


That's post 18 Warren .... make sure you have your facts straight ! 

Mark.


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## redman88

I see what the problem is. That picture that everyone is referring back to doesn't look like it has pins. As the angle of the picture makes them hard to make out.


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## wvgca

Mark R. said:


> That's post 18 Warren .... make sure you have your facts straight !
> 
> Mark.


Yes, you are indubitably correct ..
I stand corrected ...
However, I'm actually sitting, does this still qualify?* hwell:*


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## Tom17

DP2X at http://www.traintekllc.com is $29.56 and I though
I saw it cheap somewhere else but it only has 2 functions.
I can get the DP2X at my local store for about the same price and save on shipping.
I always check for the lowest price I can find before I buy.

You posted on page one:
[DCC] decoders (Without Sound) US $20.00 --> US $34.25
Not "All" [DCC] decoders have the "Same Options".. (Extra F# Functions).


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## time warp

Mark R, you forgot something. I brought some spares.

((((---------------->[[[[[==×××××]]
))))))$$$???"""""""""------------------>
"""""""]]]]]]]]]?????


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## johnfl68

time warp, you forgot the following:

Effective 9-2-16 through 9-5-16
Red, white, and blue highlighting will be required in observance of the Labor Day holiday (US members only).


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## redman88

After rereading post 41 might ED be referring to the need for an 8m-8f extension? With all my looking I don't think I have seen any on decoder sites or for sell by model train stores.


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## wvgca

amusing ..
the decoder that has gotten the major share of the conversation is apparently one that doesn't qualify


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## wvgca

johnfl68 said:


> time warp, you forgot the following:
> 
> Effective 9-2-16 through 9-5-16
> Red, white, and blue highlighting will be required in observance of the Labor Day holiday (US members only).



uh... careful ,,,
you are discriminating against ED-RRR , he's a canuckski


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## wvgca

redman88 said:


> After rereading post 41 might ED be referring to the need for an 8m-8f extension? With all my looking I don't think I have seen any on decoder sites or for sell by model train stores.



at Walthers:
https://www.walthers.com/dcc-decode...et-extension-for-nmra-8-pin-plug-for-dp5-dp2x

in canada for ED-RRR:
http://www.canadianexpressline.com/...ge=product_info&cPath=72_390&products_id=5625


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## time warp

johnfl68 said:


> time warp, you forgot the following:
> 
> Effective 9-2-16 through 9-5-16
> Red, white, and blue highlighting will be required in observance of the Labor Day holiday (US members only).


Thanks for helping us blind morons.

Redman88, An extension harness would not qualify as "Special wiring". It would satisfy the "plug and play" aspect.
If the little fella would ever talk with people instead of at them, we could have sorted that out early in this ridiculous thread.


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## redman88

I agree



How ever we need to watch how we are responding as well.


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## Tom17

I guess he didn't watch the video johnfl68 posted in post #47
on how easy it is to do.

Soundtraxx MC1H102P8 at Trainworld and Modeltrainstuff for $15.99, 2 functions 1.0 amp max in a plug-and-play format.


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## time warp

I came to the conclusion earlier today that I do not consider ED-RRR a model railroader.
Model railroaders, in my experience, are friends. Helpful, courteous, and accommodating generally.
As it stands, He seems to me to only be somebody who has trains. He doesn't love them. You don't see his name come up supporting or applauding the work of others. Too bad, he's brought up some interesting points from time to time.
He's a self serving, stone wall. I know, I reached out to him a while back to try and friend him. I won't rehearse what I got in return.


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## gunrunnerjohn

time warp said:


> As it stands, He seems to me to only be somebody who has trains.


You sure about that? I've never seen a single thing about his trains, only cut-n-paste from the Internet.


----------



## time warp

You have a point there


----------



## redman88

He has mentioned that he has 22 switch machines. And I have gotten him to show some of his own work on how he mounts them. At least I think it's his work.


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## wvgca

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You sure about that? I've never seen a single thing about his trains, only cut-n-paste from the Internet.


he did post on someone else's thread a photo, maybe two, of his layout .. this was some time ago, but I remember it ..I don't know exactly which thread, so I can't post a link ..but it was about bridges / trestles / viaducts ..
In the photo, his layout looked operating, terrain was partially completed, and it looked like he was starting on scenery ..
The main reason that it stuck in my mind was that it was the only time that I recall where he posted something that appeared to be entirely 'his own'


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## johnfl68

Almost every picture he has posted seems to be taken from other sites and forums on the internet. Most pictures I have seen before, or Google Image Search was able to find the original image from another forum post or model railroad site.


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## CTValleyRR

time warp said:


> I came to the conclusion earlier today that I do not consider ED-RRR a model railroader.
> Model railroaders, in my experience, are friends. Helpful, courteous, and accommodating generally.
> As it stands, He seems to me to only be somebody who has trains. He doesn't love them. You don't see his name come up supporting or applauding the work of others. Too bad, he's brought up some interesting points from time to time.
> He's a self serving, stone wall. I know, I reached out to him a while back to try and friend him. I won't rehearse what I got in return.


Model railroading is just a venue that ED uses to attempt to prove his superiority over others, and to try to demonstrate how intelligent, and, perhaps, internet-savvy he is. There doesn't appear to be any real effort on his part to engage in honest discourse. I've often said it isn't his information (although he's not nearly so dead-on there as he thinks he is) but his attitude (or personality).

Consider the following analogy: you have a chip in the drywall of your living room.

ED would tell you (for example) to hire a general contractor, who will strip the entire wall down to the studs, rehang the drywall, prep and paint it, thus repairing the chip. He will tell you that he has found numerous contractors on the internet who can do this (but can't personally provide a reference for them), and has even seen a few general contractors at work, although he hasn't done it himself.

ED's solution would definitely fix the problem, and might be helpful to many. Any suggestion that some other solution (cutting out the chip and patching the drywall, or a simple spackle and paint, to further the example) is met with derision of the other idea, belittling of the person who proposed it, and additional "evidence" that HIS idea is RIGHT. Which it is, but it certainly isn't the only way, or even the best for most people. In the event that anyone disputes anything he says, it is misconstrued as a personal attack.

If he would lose the agenda, the insecurity, the completely misguided idea of his own infallibility, and the nasty streak, much of what he posts would be valuable and helpful. As it stands, I'm not willing to tolerate the former to get the latter.


----------



## ED-RRR

*My Layout.. (Actual Posted Images)..*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You sure about that?
> I've never seen a single thing about his trains, only cut-n-paste from the Internet.


(#1)
homemade scratch built bridge
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7534
Added: My Mini Truss Bridge: (Posting #55)
#2.jpg 
#3.jpg 

(#2)
Back Drop Scenes: (Advanced)
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=52250
My own "Thread".. (x6) Pictures..

(#3)
HO Turntables
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=54361
Added: Reliable Turntable ($'s): (Posting #5)
#1.jpg 

gunrunnerjohn's Images: (x3)
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=3481

Simple Question:
I showed you mine..
Show me yours..
Could [gunrunnerjohn] please show pictures of "His" [O] scale (3-rail) layout ??
......


----------



## time warp

He posted at least 1 video of his " empire" Ed. Don't you wander through the forum and look around like the rest of us?


----------



## time warp

Why don't you start another thread?

Oh, wait. You just did!

Pretty soon you'll have enough threads to knit a sweater.


----------



## johnfl68

time warp said:


> Pretty soon you'll have enough threads to knit a sweater.


Winter is coming...


----------



## CTValleyRR

ED-RRR said:


> (#1)
> homemade scratch built bridge
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7534
> Added: My Mini Truss Bridge: (Posting #55)
> #2.jpg
> #3.jpg
> 
> (#2)
> Back Drop Scenes: (Advanced)
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=52250
> My own "Thread".. (x6) Pictures..
> 
> (#3)
> HO Turntables
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=54361
> Added: Reliable Turntable ($'s): (Posting #5)
> #1.jpg
> 
> gunrunnerjohn's Images: (x3)
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=3481
> 
> Simple Question:
> I showed you mine..
> Show me yours..
> Could [gunrunnerjohn] please show pictures of "His" [O] scale (3-rail) layout ??
> ......


Given your well-known propensity to try to pass off the work of others as your own, how do we even know this is really your layout or your own work? Back when you made these posts, we were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Not now.


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## wvgca

CTValleyRR said:


> Given your well-known propensity to try to pass off the work of others as your own, how do we even know this is really your layout or your own work? Back when you made these posts, we were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Not now.


well, i'm inclined to believe that it's his own layout in the backdrop thread ...
one very simple reason ..
if i was going to fake a layout, and steal images off of the net, i would pick something similar to a 'museum quality' layout..

just sayin'


----------



## wvgca

CTValleyRR said:


> I've often said it isn't his information (although he's not nearly so dead-on there as he thinks he is) but his attitude (or personality).


i still remember grj's phrase 'some inaccuracies'


----------



## CTValleyRR

wvgca said:


> well, i'm inclined to believe that it's his own layout in the backdrop thread ...
> one very simple reason ..
> if i was going to fake a layout, and steal images off of the net, i would pick something similar to a 'museum quality' layout..
> 
> just sayin'


I'm actually fairly certain it is. Just pokin' the bear.


----------

