# Peco short



## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

Hello everyone, I apologize as I know this has been covered, but I am Still at a loss. I have the basic idea of how the peco switches work with regard to electricity flow. 

I apologize for the length of this, and hope I have this in the correct area. I will also note i have been trying to google answers, and figure this out for 2 weeks now. 

I have a couple switches that short my entire layout when thrown or even have power supplied. I have cut a bit bigger of gaps to make sure the lines coming off them are not the issue, and even went as far as disconnecting the power drops one line at a time. The problem still happens

Now that I did my intro of my attempted repair, my issue is, one of my switches when thrown will short out my zephyr system, doesn't matter if the spurs are powered or not, what's wierd to me is it is random as to which way the switch is thrown that causes the short. Meaning 1 time, being straight causes it, the next send it to the siding and it will short. Then one time neither causes a short, and the loco coming on does. 

Another switch up at the entrance to the engine repair yard, only shorts out when the power drops are attached, it doesn't matter which wire I put to which buss, I thought it might be touching rails under it, however I can't see where it is and the drops are in different section of the turnout. 

This section of the layout was given to me, so I have been fixing bad wiring, were instead of connecting wires, the previous owner just peeled back some insulation and twisted the feeders to the buss. There was even a section they twisted the drops to the actual rails. 

I have the entire section repaired and good solid connection made, up to the 3 rail repair yard, and the 2 switches in question. 

Thank you for taking the time to read this long post. 

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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Wich Peco turnout type do you have?The most occurring short with Peco turnouts is forgetting to instal insulated joiners at both legs of metal frogs on Electrofrog type turnouts.
Otherwise,I suspect you have a shorted area elsewhere on the layout.A diagram or picture of the trackwork would be handy for us to help you.


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## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

I have no idea which they are, I didn't set this part of the layout up, I knmow it's only the 2 switches that cause any issues. All the other switches and crossovers do not interrupt running. 

The standard looking turnout is the one that causes the random shorting, the triple turnout is the one I can't connect power to before or near. So it's a dead area, that has no power.









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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The pictures confirm that you are using Electrofrog type turnouts.However,the pics aren't clear enough to tell if the metal frogs were properly insulated.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If they are Peco Electrofrogs, as they seem to be,
you must have an insulated joiner in each FROG
rail.

Don


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## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

I apologize, I am not understanding what you mean. I cut the rails on the tracks coming off of both switch positions, and supplied power to the ends of the siding. So in theory shouldn't they be insulated from the switch? And the track feeding into them seems to have plastic insulators after the previous switch. 

Again my apologies for not understanding what your meaning. 

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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

What about reading the instructions sheet that came with your turnouts?Peco usually explain installation very well.


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## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

Again, I didn't buy or install these, this section was given to me, through my old club. It was part of a 10 ft x 12 ft layout they had decided to destroy, but I managed to talk them into giving me the last section they hadn't destroyed. 

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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

OK then...try Google "Peco-wiring for DCC".Open the page then scroll down to the second diagram (Electrofrog).The frog insulators are indicated in yellow.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Thinking about it...if the section of the layout you have used to work fine,then the turnouts have to be wired properly.It's likely a connection you did that's shorting.You may have to un-do what you did and start over,checking at every step along the way.

Why did the club rip this part off?


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## Bbdave (Oct 19, 2017)

I would disconnect totally the new section and check the operation of you existing layout, then supply the new section seperately and check that if both work then connect them together and check . It sounds like your turnouts are ok and maybe just a polarity issue between your two sections check and triple check your track polarities .

Dave


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## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

It was donated to them, so I have no idea if everything used to work or not. It was never even set up once it was donated, it sat in a trailer for nearly 6 months. Our club lost its location due to the business closing it doors, I asked for the whole layout for a donation. As per their request to have done if anyone wanted it, and was told upon arrival to pick up they had decided it was too valuable to give to some one else, so they were going to destroy it instead. 

Which made absolutely no sense to anyone there including myself. 

On another note, I am not sure the guy ever had it wired for dcc, upon researching the turntable last night to learn the finer user points, I discovered it was wired for dc, not necessarily dcc. 

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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

It seems that you really need help and you've come to the right place.Myself and others will definitely give it a try.

You can help us helping you though...my suggestion:
Cut small cardboard squares to identify each track and turnouts (ex:letters for turnouts and numbers for track would be great) to improve communications,then post a picture (or more) of the whole piece of layout you have.We'll then have a much better idea of the potential problems you may have and be capable to come up with clear solutions you can understand.

When troubleshooting electrical problems,a cheap automotive test lamp and a multimeter (also cheap) are great tools to have on hand.


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## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

Yea I have been using a meter, and test light to check for voltage and such. I came home late last night after work and cut the frogs like most searches suggested, after you guys mentioned isolating the frogs. It no longer shorts when it gets thrown, but now if the loco comes on the track anywhere on the switch, I am going to try some finger nail polish on the inside of the rails where the points meet, as per a test suggestion I was reading, to see if the wires under were cut and repaired or not. 

I will do the cardboard number suggestion and get better pics this afternoon before I go to work. 

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## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

Ok, so I put some kapton tape into the area where the switch touched the rails when flipped and it stopped shorting out. I then started looking and I believe it was wired for dcc, because he ran a insulator joint on just one rail, and reg on the others of the switches. I cut the metal rail joiner out and it stopped shorting out. Now I need to wire power to the section, and it works. I tried jumper wires to the top of the rail and to the buss, ran a train through the whole area and no more shorting. 

I hope it works with actual feeder drops , and will keep everyone posted. If you want me too, also I appreciate everything you guys helped with. I had no idea what type of peco switches I had, or what to look for 

Thanks again

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## nscaletim (Oct 17, 2013)

Success, dropped the power drops and it works perfectly now , with the metal rail joiners removed and the frogs insulated. 

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