# DCC locomotives on DC in preparation for DCC. A few questions..



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

I am just curious, I have 4 locos.. 2 are HO and 2 are N. The two N locomotives are full on DCC right now, and the two HO are DCC ready. I know I have to buy the two decoders, but I have sort of a goofy question actually about the N locomotives..

The question that I have is based off one of the locos (a GP7). It is a bachmann, and seems to run choppy on the throttle. Is the normal since it has DCC and is running on a DC system currently? None of my other locomotives behave in this fashion.. And it only exhibits this behavior at slow speeds (it is near to impossible to get a constant slow speed on this one). The f7 I just purchased (the other N scale) seems to be much smoother and able to easily achieve low speeds like my two HO engines. I am wondering if it's just the loco, or is it the DCC in it?

I know it's a goofy question.. But thanks in advance..

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Most DCC decoders made within the last 5 years are dual mode, which means they will take a DC or DCC input. Depending on how old your Bachmann GP7 is, it should have one of these. With a DCC set, you would be able to fine-tune the motor inputs and smooth out that slow speed running; on a DC set, you get what you get.

It's also very possible that things are just dirty, though. Give the track and loco wheels a good cleaning and see if that helps.


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> Most DCC decoders made within the last 5 years are dual mode, which means they will take a DC or DCC input. Depending on how old your Bachmann GP7 is, it should have one of these. With a DCC set, you would be able to fine-tune the motor inputs and smooth out that slow speed running; on a DC set, you get what you get.
> 
> It's also very possible that things are just dirty, though. Give the track and loco wheels a good cleaning and see if that helps.


Thank you for the reply.. I'm pretty sure it's not the wheels or track since I cleaned them after this began. I also ran my other N on the track and it didn't exhibit the same behavior.

And I'm not sure how old it is honestly, how can I tell? Is there something on the box that will let me know? That would actually be excellent to know in general if possible. 

And lol, I can't wait to get my DCC! Ugh....

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I wouldn't worry too much about the 'choppy' running
of the DCC N scale that you are running on DC.

When you have your DCC controller you can then better
evaluate that loco. It may be that simple CV
adjustments will resolve the problem.

Don


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

DonR said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the 'choppy' running
> of the DCC N scale that you are running on DC.
> 
> When you have your DCC controller you can then better
> ...


Don!

Thanks for the input... But ugh, I will have to wait two weeks for that. It just looks so weird everything else able to creep, and this thing flying around like a bat out of hell... But point taken from your and the post above....

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MatroxD said:


> And I'm not sure how old it is honestly, how can I tell? Is there something on the box that will let me know? That would actually be excellent to know in general if possible.
> 
> Sent from my Note 8


No, unfortunately, I don't think there is. Sometimes stock can sit on shelves for quite a while. If it's still in production (check the manufacturer's website), odds are pretty good that it's recent stock, but I've seen stuff that's clearly been on a store's shelf for a decade or more.


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> No, unfortunately, I don't think there is. Sometimes stock can sit on shelves for quite a while. If it's still in production (check the manufacturer's website), odds are pretty good that it's recent stock, but I've seen stuff that's clearly been on a store's shelf for a decade or more.


Yes and I think mine have been on the shelf for a while, but I don't believe that long (I think they are still in production). But it kinda sucks that you cannot tell.

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I’ve got a feeling when you run it on your coming DCC set up it will smooth out a lot. Let us know.


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Cycleops said:


> I’ve got a feeling when you run it on your coming DCC set up it will smooth out a lot. Let us know.


Ugh.. lol.. Patience is killing me, as I'm always curious if something will solve an issue that is annoying me..

But I most certainly will.. 

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Just curious guys.. How difficult is it to wire a decoder into a non DCC engine? In your practical experience? I have model power switcher that's a workhorse, that I'd love to convert to DCC.. Is it just soldering and color matching to the respective wires? Or much more involved, like taking things all the way apart with the engine?


Thanks,

D

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

D

The typical HO locomotive is not that difficult to
upgrade to DCC. 

Unless the loco is tagged, DCC ready, you'll need
to select a decoder to be 'wired' in. These are usually
near postage stamp size and come with 8 color coded
wires.

You first must identify the motor tab that is connected
to the right side wheel pickup. Then you must test
to ensure that neither motor tab touches any part of
the frame and if it does, isolate it.

Then follow the decoder manual that will tell you where
each wire is to be soldered. The orange wire will go
to the tab you identified as 'right rail'. This is important
so that FWD and REV work correctly.

If you will be using the original incandescent lights the
instructions will show how to connect them. The decoder
light circuit has an output of 12 V DC. If you are replacing
the bulbs with LEDs, you'll need a 470 to 1,000 ohm
resistor to drop the voltage. The blue wire COMMON is POSITIVE, put the resistor in line with it and connect
your LEDs accordingly.

Check again for any short circuit in the motor or light
wiring BEFORE you apply power the first time.

All decoders arrive with address 03. After you test
run the loco, change the address to another number.
Your controller manual will tell you how.
That way you won't affect the loco when you get your
next decoder install.

Don


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

DonR said:


> D
> 
> The typical HO locomotive is not that difficult to
> upgrade to DCC.
> ...


Thanks for the explain Don. That doesn't sound too, to bad.. I think it's the lack of familiarity that is a bit intimidating. But you guys have encouraged and talked me through the DCC upgrade process, so I'm paying close attention to the suggestions...

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

If it’s an older engine like your Model Power I’m afraid there won’t be too much colour matching! Likely they’ll all be black, so you’ll need to trace the wires back. Also some oldies had one pick up run through the chassis to the motor, that’s a no no for DCC so you’ll need to isolate the motor in some way. Some also draw more amps than modern types so you’ll need to do a stall test to make sure you don’t exceed the rated amps for the decoder. 
Don’t mean to scare you because in most cases it’s very straightforward.

Having said that I’ve just discovered the Model Power SW1 is colour coded. Is that yours?


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Cycleops said:


> If it’s an older engine like your Model Power I’m afraid there won’t be too much colour matching! Likely they’ll all be black, so you’ll need to trace the wires back. Also some oldies had one pick up run through the chassis to the motor, that’s a no no for DCC so you’ll need to isolate the motor in some way. Some also draw more amps than modern types so you’ll need to do a stall test to make sure you don’t exceed the rated amps for the decoder.
> Don’t mean to scare you because in most cases it’s very straightforward.
> 
> Having said that I’ve just discovered the Model Power SW1 is colour coded. Is that yours?


Lol, yes you did scare me.... And nope, I have an 0-4-0 that they make.. 

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

MatroxD said:


> Lol, yes you did scare me.... And nope, I have an 0-4-0 that they make..
> 
> Sent from my Note 8


Ok here are some pictures Cyclops... Or anyone else.. What do you all think? As far as installing a decoder?









Sent from my Note 8


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Looks quite straightforward. One thing you might like to do is change the bulbs for LEDs, it means they last longer. You’ll need a small two function decoder.
With switchers they need to be able to crawl across turnouts but with only four wheels this will be a problem. A ‘keep alive’ would be a good idea here, it’s a small energy storing capacitor which replaces power when it is lost through the wheel pick ups. Some decoder like those from DCC Concepts are ready wired to accept them on some models. Others have solder pads for them.


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Thanks Cyclops..

I ended up ordering the two soundtraxx decoders and speakers for the two ho engines. One is a tsunami and is the eco. Will have the one N engine I need to outfit. They only have the decoder and speaker for one of them (the f7).

Correct me if I'm doing, but the throttle is probably going to be also improved with these new decoders correct, versus the bachmann ones?

I know the sound will be awesome, but from what I saw, there are a ton of other upgraded features?

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

In my previous post I forgot that you don’t have any turnouts so obviously disregard my comment about the stay alive.

Yes, the throttle response/control will be much improved I’m sure compared to Bachmann. I think playing around with CVs and getting the loco to run the way you like is half the fun with DCC. Tailoring the sounds is also great fun.


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Cycleops said:


> In my previous post I forgot that you don’t have any turnouts so obviously disregard my comment about the stay alive.
> 
> Yes, the throttle response/control will be much improved I’m sure compared to Bachmann. I think playing around with CVs and getting the loco to run the way you like is half the fun with DCC. Tailoring the sounds is also great fun.


Hmm.. I ordered the tsunami2 for one, and econi for the other (both ho). I figured it would be easier dealing with the larger ones first. But don't the soundtraxx ones have that feature built into them? I just awoke and can't think of the to of my head..

And cool, I was thinking and hoping so.. And I can't wait to play around with the CV's and sound!

I will probably for the little switcher above and at least another N scale, try another brand of decoder, just to save change, while upgrading them... 

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Most newer sound decoders have a capacitor built in, yes, but it will depend on the specific model you bought.


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> Most newer sound decoders have a capacitor built in, yes, but it will depend on the specific model you bought.


Yes, as I dig deeper into things, I see that it's a somewhat standard option item on the aftermarket decoders. I think I'm going to try and get soundtraxx micro decoders for the locomotives that either don't have listed specific for them, and the three I have that are non DCC right now (2 N and 1 HO). I'm a little nervous about the N scale ones though, since they are so tiny...

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You’ll find most recent N gauge models have a split chassis with a board that clips in between, not too difficult to deal with.


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Cycleops said:


> You’ll find most recent N gauge models have a split chassis with a board that clips in between, not too difficult to deal with.


Lol, your a bad influence! Ha ha ha

Seriously though, thank you. I'm still a bit nervous (as I wait for them to arrive). I'm dying for them at this point honestly! But, I can't rush the post... Unfortunately....

Sent from my Note 8


----------



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Cycleops said:


> You’ll find most recent N gauge models have a split chassis with a board that clips in between, not too difficult to deal with.


Well, I did the next best thing for one of the n scale locomotives.. I upgraded to one of the DCC soundtraxx locomotives.. It runs great except one thing: when I increase or decrease the speed, the main lights go on and/of with every other speed step, along with no control as far as turning the light on and off with the headlight button. I am wondering if it is because, during setup, it already me if I wanted to configure, and I said no. I had never been asked that before by the controller, so I assumed it would be ok. But I am wondering if this is the problem?

The instructions were kind of sparse, so I'm thinking, with this issue, maybe it's time to mess with CV'S? 

Does this sounds like my issue, and I need to go through the setup again with it, and configure? If so, can you or someone give me a little helping hand with instructions? 

Thanks again..

Sent from my Note 8


----------

