# This is an S gauge?



## Misha (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi everybody. My name is Mihai and I'm new in business. My english isn't so good also, sorry about this . For now I just want to find an answear to this question: talking about S gauge or scale, do somebody know how many millimetres are in between the rails? Because I'm trying to figure it out what kind of track and power pack do I need for my 4-6-2 West Hades & Beelzebub #674 locomotive ( road name and number wrouted down on tender). I know nothing else about it, who was the manufacturer, how old is it. It is a very heavy piece ( maybe 2.2 kg ), all brass ( body, chassis, weels, all details ), 17 '' long with tender( 430 mm ), 2 7/8 '' high and 1 15/16 '' wide. I found it into a pawn shop last year and I got it for $150 Cad. It looks wonderful, maybe is working to, I don't know. There is something electronic inside the tender and a small tag on the motor: "Sogami 12v DC. Made in Japan". This is all. It tooks me I almost 4 hours to separate the body from the chassis ( I found an a verry small scrub broken). One more thing about it: I measured the distance over the weel flanches: 21.4 mm. I want desperatelly to see it working on the rails. Any informations about will be very welcome.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Beautiful loco!

A table of track gauges is listed here (imperial units first, then metric with a scroll-down) ...

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/pdf/S-3.2 2010.02.24.pdf

Your wheel gauge does look like it would fit S, though I believe that S (like American Flyer) is typically run on AC power, not DC.

We have a dedicated groups of S guys here ... hoping they will chime in.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I will ditto, it is a nicely detailed engine.:thumbsup:

I wonder if it was made across the big pond somewhere?


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Misha, welcome to the forum! Nice to have you join us. 

There is a bit of difference between S scale and S gauge. S scale is generally American Flyer, and it's size is the result of an effort to downscale accurately from a real engine with 1:64 scale. S scale track gauge (space between the rails) is 22.42 mm (0.883 in). So, you could feasibly take a Lionel O gauge train and change the trucks to S gauge trucks and run it on S gauge track. It would be S gauge, but not S scale because it would be over-large. Gauge always refers to the distance between the rails, while scale refers to an accurate downsizing of the real thing.

American Flyer made both AC and DC trains in S scale. If you have an S gauge or S scale layout, your best move is to make it DC to accomodate your new darling. An AC train will also run on a DC layout, but DC will fry if you try to run it on an AC layout.

Best wishes, and that train to hell is gorgeous!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I have read some articles from 1940's train magazines on scratch built brass Locomotives though they were built in O.
This one guy made over 75 of them! 
All hand fabricated, beautifully detailed.:thumbsup:

The guy might be long gone but somewhere his engines must live on.

I wonder if that could be scratch built? 

I will say again....nice Locomotive you have there.:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Great looking rig! Is there any connection, other than the coupler, between the locomotive and the tender? That circuit looks to be an electronic E-Unit with the four driver transistors.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

You have a piece of scratchbuilt model railroading history there...I knew the name of the railroad rang a bell...

From the NMRA Division 6 "Highball" newsletter, Summer 2010 >>>http://pnr.nmra.org/6div/highball/201006.pdf

_Ken McMillan passed away on May 31, 2010 at the age of 86. 

Ken built and operated the West Hades & Beelzebub - a mostly scratch-built S scale layout. 

His prize-winning brass steam engines were controlled with a home-built CTC-16 system. 

The entire layout operated flawlessly.

Who can forget dumping live ore loads in his automatic rotary dumper, complete with a working kickback track?

The craftsmanship on the layout was surpassed only by Ken's hospitality to guest operators.

Several of us were honoured to take part in operating sessions late into the evening, the first exposure to operations for many.

Many of us also remember Ken's voice - he was known in some circles as "Edmonton's Frank Sinatra" - and was a frequent singer at Edmonton-area karaoke bars.

One of the treats of the 6th Division spring meet in 1978 was Ken's after-banquet singing.

Ken will be remembered fondly by all who had the good fortune to know him

Mark Johnson
_


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Wow, that's a great find!  Not many folks have scratch built locomotives on their layout!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow ... I think a silent wave of awe just rolled across the forum. Very, very cool. Good intel, Shay.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I have several Model Railroader magazines with pictures of his work over the years...it's not easy to forget the name of his road. Would love to stumble on a piece of history like that myself one day. With you permission Misha, I'd like to use your pictures in a hobby post.

To run it, you''ll have to bypass or replace the CTC 16 board as it is quite obsolete. That was one of the first successful digital command control systems out there, built from a series of articles in MR magazine in the late 70s/early 80s. They had several upgrade articles through the years but I don't believe they are compatible with DCC today.


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## Misha (Jan 1, 2012)

*''HAPPY NEW YEAR'' Everyone!!!*

Guys, I wish to thank you all for your nice words about my loco and for your very heplful advices.  I can't say how happy I am. Anyway, I'm no more so happy thinking about what I have to do from now on. hwell: And this because I have to choose one of this options: 1. - bild an layout and power it at max. ?V AC OR ?V DC  But what about the amps? If this loco was bilt for AC that means can run on DC layout with no problems but not viceversa has been told me. (Reckers I thank you :thumbsup I talked about that small tag found it on the motor: ...12V DC. I'm in the dark here. 2. - Should I realy replace that what it looks to be an CTC 16 board (I don't even know what is that hwell: and what is good for or how is working; Shaygetz I thank you to :thumbsup: To many unknow things for me. Now I'm f.... sad. But I still have hope and step by step I will get all what I need. 
P.S. 1 - Shaygetz, sir, of course you can use those pictures; I can post some more, just ask; P.S. 2 - Gunrunnerjohn : can you be a little bit more specific about E-unit? What is it? About ather connections between the loco and tender, no sir, there in no athers, only three wires: black, red and grey


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Misha,

I move your post directly above from it original stand-alone thread over to here -- the thread that initially described the loco in detail. I think it's in your best interest for continuity of the discussion, and for others to follow the dialog, to have all of this here in one related thread. I hope you'll agree.

TJ


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you Misha, a good 3/4 shot would be great...just aim your camera at the front right corner of the pilot and down the length from each end...you'll be a pro in no time:thumbsup:


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

That loco of yours will need too run on a DC or DCC layout.
It will probably take less than 2 amps to run this loco. 
The electronics that are in the tender will need to be removed and the loco and tender will need to be rewired to get it to run.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I agree with Sean, you probably will end up with a basic DC locomotive when you remove the obsolete electronic package.


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