# Athearn N Scale F59PHI Dallas/TRE



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I bought an Athearn N Scale F59 PHI in 2006 when I lived in Dallas, because I had been riding the commuter train daily to work. I bought this from ebay, but I couldn't find the passenger cars for the Dallas/TRE line. This loco runs as well as Kato E8/9s do. I looked this up on spookshow.net, and gleaned that I had a Korean-made loco. Spookshow did say that he thought this item had limited appeal. What I am wondering is if this model uncommon, possibly because of low production or sales, and is this why I have not found the Bombardier passenger cars for sale for Dallas/TRE?

I don't think I would want to buy the cars now, but I did wonder if there just aren't many of these? The loco runs fine, perfectly actually. I wonder if it can be upgraded with a decoder. I got the impression from Spookshow that you either got the version with a decoder and sound or not.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

The Dallas F59PHI:


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I did some research on this and Dallas/TRE uses some F59PHI locos with an RDC on the other end of the commuter train for the return trip. They now use bi-level commuter cars in between. When I rode this line to work in 2006 to 2007 they used RDC cars with single level passenger cars in between. So, the F59PHI for Dallas/TRE is not a fantasy, it really runs. I am not going to build a replica of this line, though. The Athearn Bombardier cars must have been too limited in production to be able to find them at an affordable price.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

I have the same problem with Ontario's GO Transit coaches.
I did find an a Model Power Go loco years ago.
Athearn did a run of GO coaches years ago, they were expensive then and astronomical today because of there apparent rarity.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Yes, the Metrolink cars I found on eBay were from $200 to over $300. I think I saw the Metrolink F59PHI going for over $150. This isn't crazy in today's market, but the Dallas cars would probably be real collector's items.


----------



## Viperjim01 (Jul 31, 2021)

There is a metro link 4 cars and loco buy it now on feebay. Ran 15 minutes. All Athearn


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

The only Dallas/TRE car I saw was a Bombardier control car for $139.99. The only Dallas/TRE F59PHI I saw in the sold listings went for $249.99, making the conclusion obvious, since I have nothing to run with mine and am not going to get any. Well, I had wondered if these Athearn locos and cars were uncommon, and I guess they are.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

GTW son said:


> I have the same problem with Ontario's GO Transit coaches.
> I did find an a Model Power Go loco years ago.
> Athearn did a run of GO coaches years ago, they were expensive then and astronomical today because of there apparent rarity.


You have confirmed that these cars are too uncommon to expect to find any. Thanks.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

They do pop up on eBay from time to time, the original Athearn GO 3 coach set is in the $500 range while singles are in the $120-140 range.
I did find on at a local train show for $90 cash last month, only had $75 cash on me that that day and seller wouldn't move on the price. Plus different couplers between my loco and the coach.
May take a while but I'll find a set.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

With patience you will usually find what you are looking for. I don't think I am going to bother trying to get the Dallas set. Good luck GO coaches. I read, incidentall6y that GO Transit had sold some F59PHIs and coaches to Dallas/TRE.

I had been looking for a Kato Amtrak smoothside set of 6 cars for years. Usually they were $200 to $300. I recently got the set on ebay for $120. So, you never know when you get a break.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

It would be very unusual to find a loco that
could not be updated with a DCC non sound decoder.
There could be a problem finding space
for a DCC sound speaker, but the actual DCC
electronics should fit in. There are decoders
especially sized for N scale.

Don


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)




----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Sniffing around this morning and found this thought you may be interested


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Even the most popular and numerous pieces become hard to find after a long period of not being in production….you’ll just have to be patient and keep looking, probably for a long time….and that still won’t guarnatee you will ever find any….

If anything, this hobby teaches you patience, as well as the importance of not procrastinating and grabbing the item as soon as you can when it becomes availabl, before it disappears….


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

GTW son said:


> View attachment 582928


Thanks for that. With this item on one end, a few passenger cars in the middle and an F59PHI on the other end you would have a consist like what the Dallas/Trinity system uses now. I have no idea how long you would have to search for these items, probably years.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Old_Hobo said:


> Even the most popular and numerous pieces become hard to find after a long period of not being in production….you’ll just have to be patient and keep looking, probably for a long time….and that still won’t guarnatee you will ever find any….
> 
> If anything, this hobby teaches you patience, as well as the importance of not procrastinating and grabbing the item as soon as you can when it becomes availabl, before it disappears….


This is very true. As an example, I bought the Kato Amtrak phase I smoothside set around 2001. I wanted an observation car to cap it off, and looked and looked until I finally found the six car main set at a reasonable price a few weeks ago. Around twenty years because I didn't think to act right away around 2001. Now those sets are coming available again, probably from estate sales, but the prices are usually over $200. So, you have to act when the opportunity presents itself. I might have let this set pass by, but reading the post about the Alaska RR passenger set woke me up.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Your welcome, that is a steep price for one car but its there right now. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have got the extra $15 to buy that GO coach but it meant leaving, finding a bank, finding parking again the lot was jammed. Excuses, excuses.... 
Is the Dallas Trinity like or affiliated with the DART?
My wife's sister lives in University Park in Dallas, we took the DART downtown some years back when it had only been open for a few months.
They seem to share the same paint scheme.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

DART is Dallas Area Rapid Transit. DART goes in the Dallas area, and I believe TRE, Trinity Rapid Express, goes over to Fort Worth. I used DART for a year while I worked there, but I never went to Fort Worth. I think the two lines meet in the north of Dallas. 

I don't think I am going to pursue the Bombardier cars. Too much money and I just finished putting light kits in the Amtrak and Great Northern cars. The Kato light kits are not fun to install.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

10-4 sound like me and the GO coaches, one day we'll trip over a set for a price we can live with and, presto....


----------



## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

It depends on how much you want a Dallas/TRE train on your layout. You could buy that Ebay control car, pair it with your locomotive, add some generic Kato commuter bi-levels between them and call it "close enough". $140 is more than I'd pay for an N scale car, but that does seem to be "the going rate" for those Bombardier cars due to their rarity.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

GNfan said:


> It depends on how much you want a Dallas/TRE train on your layout. You could buy that Ebay control car, pair it with your locomotive, add some generic Kato commuter bi-levels between them and call it "close enough". $140 is more than I'd pay for an N scale car, but that does seem to be "the going rate" for those Bombardier cars due to their rarity.


Those are good points. The Dart train I rode to work and back had a control car, an RDC, at each end and a few cars in the middle. I already have a pair of Kato RDCs and could just stick coaches in the middle. Or I could do as you suggest to make up the TRE consist running from Fort Worth to a northern Dallas subburb. When I started this discussion I didn't realize the Athearn locos and cars were so rare. Thanks to you people who brought clarity to the issue. Now I realize what I would be getting into looking for the missing pieces.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Atlas makes Bombardier items for New Jersey Transit. Atlas N Scale Bombardier ALP-45DP (Standard DC) New Jersey Transit/NJT #4507 | eBay 

Not cheap either, but spookshow.net says they come DCC ready or with a sound decoder. You might paint these.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

You could go with this set as a lease or re-wrap.
Note the retail price of $40 and the store price of $69.99 back in the day


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Don't know which was the better investment, real estate or Bombardier N scale coaches


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

GTW son said:


> You could go with this set as a lease or re-wrap.
> Note the retail price of $40 and the store price of $69.99 back in the day
> View attachment 582989


So it goes, rarity, inflation. I see similar happening to most of this stuff. Life-Like E8s that I bought in the 1990s for $18 now going for $49.99 and up. Kato passenger sets I bought for about $50 I put for bid on ebay, got $140. Seems to be nearly across the board.

The Atlas Bombardier are just a little less than the Athearn cars. Low demand leading to low production and sales?


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Kato 3-car set Chicago Metra: New : KATO USA


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Weird how when things are out of production and everybody suddenly wants them, but can’t find them for original price….what’s that all about…..?


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Yup. lol....guilty as charged....


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

GTW son said:


> View attachment 582928


I put this on my ebay watch list, don't ask me why, I don't know....seller just sent me a buy it now sale offer of $7.00 off so $139.99.
Still a bit rich for my neighborhood and the girls I date but guessing the seller wants to move it, face it, its a niche area piece.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Yes, high, but I think that's a loco, so a lot of locos are in that range today. It isn't the road you want to follow, so, unless you would want to spend further to get it repainted, I would ignore it. I did an advanced search for sold items on ebay, searching for the Dallas/TRE F59PHI, and found one result, one that sold for 249.99. I am probably going to sell mine. If I were twenty years younger, I might pursue the Dallas consist, but I am 73 and looking to reduce my collection so my survivors won't have to. I would prefer to concentrate on a layout rather than more passenger trains. If you are younger, the GO Transit consist could be a great aim, just have patience and a long view, and don't get distracted by other rabbit holes.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Description says its a control car.
Its been 12-15 years since I purchased the GO loco so don't seem to be in a hurry for the coaches.
My mainstay on my layout is CP Rail grain/wheat so stay with that for now, see what happens.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I have CN F units with a number of Canada grain cars.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Further research:
F59PHI and Bombardier: $500.00
Athearn 2622, 2546 & 2566 (x2) Dallas/TRE F59PHI & Bombardier Cars | eBay

Control Car: $139.99
N Scale BOMBARDIER Dallas TRE Trinity Railway Control Car #1002 -- ATHEARN 10129 797534101265 | eBay

So, the consist F59PHI, 3 Bombardier passenger cars, Control car (other end. reversing train) as used by Trinity Rail Express is rare and pricey. When I started looking into this I didn't know what I was getting into, but, considering how prices go today, I was not expecting to find these items at the original selling price. 

This consist came out after I had left Dallas. I can approximate the DART consist I rode with a couple of coaches and an RDC car at each end. That's what I plan to do when I build my layout: run a rail line for the commuter rail and use something I bought years ago to reverse direction at each end when an optical sensor detects the train. That will be similar to the 2006 DART I rode.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)




----------



## RailRoadX (Aug 14, 2017)

pmcgurin said:


> I bought an Athearn N Scale F59 PHI in 2006 when I lived in Dallas, because I had been riding the commuter train daily to work. I bought this from ebay, but I couldn't find the passenger cars for the Dallas/TRE line. This loco runs as well as Kato E8/9s do. I looked this up on spookshow.net, and gleaned that I had a Korean-made loco. Spookshow did say that he thought this item had limited appeal. What I am wondering is if this model uncommon, possibly because of low production or sales, and is this why I have not found the Bombardier passenger cars for sale for Dallas/TRE?
> 
> I don't think I would want to buy the cars now, but I did wonder if there just aren't many of these? The loco runs fine, perfectly actually. I wonder if it can be upgraded with a decoder. I got the impression from Spookshow that you either got the version with a decoder and sound or not.





pmcgurin said:


> I bought an Athearn N Scale F59 PHI in 2006 when I lived in Dallas, because I had been riding the commuter train daily to work. I bought this from ebay, but I couldn't find the passenger cars for the Dallas/TRE line. This loco runs as well as Kato E8/9s do. I looked this up on spookshow.net, and gleaned that I had a Korean-made loco. Spookshow did say that he thought this item had limited appeal. What I am wondering is if this model uncommon, possibly because of low production or sales, and is this why I have not found the Bombardier passenger cars for sale for Dallas/TRE?
> 
> I don't think I would want to buy the cars now, but I did wonder if there just aren't many of these? The loco runs fine, perfectly actually. I wonder if it can be upgraded with a decoder. I got the impression from Spookshow that you either got the version with a decoder and sound or not.


Hello Sir,

I cannot assist you with your model requests, however I am a former CMO of the TRE and would be glad to answer any questions regarding the fleet, upgrades, vehicle purchases etc. During my tenure we upgraded the entire fleet with new HEP power and also purchased several F-59PH's from GO Toronto around 2009 etc. We also overhauled the entire F-59PH fleet from Sub-Zero emissions to TIER-II on the EMD 710's. We also overhauled half of the Bombardier Bi-Level fleet and turned two Cab-Controlled cars in the fleet to trailing coaches.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Would they have used RDC's as leads on either end of the consist with coaches in between?
It is my understanding that RDC's, Via rail in this instance, had weak transmissions and could not handle the strain of pulling rolling stock.
Any number RDC's together, all engines running, in a consist were fine.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Area_Rapid_Transit






__





Dallas area rapid transit train equipment - Google Search






www.google.com





I am still going to build a RDC line into my layout. Not meaning for that to be DART.

After considering the cost of Athearn Bombardier cars, I am going to sell the F59PHI. The one sale I could find on ebay was almost $250.


----------



## RailRoadX (Aug 14, 2017)

GTW son said:


> Would they have used RDC's as leads on either end of the consist with coaches in between?
> It is my understanding that RDC's, Via rail in this instance, had weak transmissions and could not handle the strain of pulling rolling stock.
> Any number RDC's together, all engines running, in a consist were fine.


Hello GTW Son,

No sir, they would not. The RDC was made for usage in the NE US. They were designed for either single, double or triple car (RDC consists). Their N-14 Cummins packages although hearty for an RDC consist could not pull nor supply enough (HEP power) juice to "light-up" Bombardier Bi-Level coaches. The RDC if memory serves me correctly, weighed in at 135000lbs and a Bombardier Bi-Level around 119000 to 121000 depending on coach type (trailing coach versus cab controlled car) and the F-59 PH and or the F-59 PH-I EMD weighed in around 260000lbs again if memory serves me correctly.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Thank you.
CNR/CPR/VIA rail utilized RDC's in this area for decades, I always thought they were neat so I have and CP Rail RDC-3 for my layout.
Apparently the only RDC line still running in Canada is between Sudbury and Cochran now and its sporadic service at best.
@pmcgurin y'know I thought about selling my GO loco the other day too, seems a shame to sit on it when someone with the coaches could use it.


----------



## RailRoadX (Aug 14, 2017)

GTW son said:


> Thank you.
> CNR/CPR/VIA rail utilized RDC's in this area for decades, I always thought they were neat so I have and CP Rail RDC-3 for my layout.
> Apparently the only RDC line still running in Canada is between Sudbury and Cochran now and its sporadic service at best.
> @pmcgurin y'know I thought about selling my GO loco the other day too, seems a shame to sit on it when someone with the coaches could use it.


Hello GTW Son,

Around 2018 or thereabouts, we (my post TRE employment) were involved in the transfer of 12 of 13 of the TRE RDC fleet to their new owners, AllEarth RR of Vermont purchased 10 I believe (and I am not aware if they're in operation(s) presently) and the remaining two went up to Portland and the last coach was kept by DART as a "museum" piece. As a matter-of-fact, when the DART placed the RDC's up for sale/bid/auction to the best of my knowledge, the only bidders were AllEarth RR and I think it was GO Transit (?????). I know it was a Canadian concern, (I'm taking a guess at GO Transit).


----------



## RailRoadX (Aug 14, 2017)

pmcgurin said:


> Those are good points. The Dart train I rode to work and back had a control car, an RDC, at each end and a few cars in the middle. I already have a pair of Kato RDCs and could just stick coaches in the middle. Or I could do as you suggest to make up the TRE consist running from Fort Worth to a northern Dallas subburb. When I started this discussion I didn't realize the Athearn locos and cars were so rare. Thanks to you people who brought clarity to the issue. Now I realize what I would be getting into looking for the missing pieces.


Hello pmcurin,

I worked for the TRE and made those consists up. However, the RDC consists were mainly three RDC's and rarely a fourth owing to the fact at that time there were 9 station stops along a 36+ mile linear route with two crewman (1 operator and 1 conductor) and all of the doors had to be manually open and closed by the one conductor whom often times had to run between cars to close doors and was often assisting ADA passengers and manually move a 75-pound ramp for our ADA passengers (stow/secure the ramp) with the train beginning to move out of the stations and conductor running to close the doors (all vestibule doors were opened and closed manually and on a three door consist that was 6 doors spaced eighty five feet or so between a single car) as station dwell times were supposed to be no more than 1 minute. By the time Victory (American Airlines Arena and a an intermodal junction with DART light rail {Orange and Green lines}) station was added (station #10) the RDC's were essentially relegated to "spare" duty as the Cummins N-14 packages had seen their day and the Spicer transmission packages essentially had no spare parts and procuring wheels short of rubbing a magic lamp three times and having a "genie" grant you a wish for more wheels were non-existent (it took over 4-years to fulfill a wheel order).


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

GO would not be looking for RDC's, if anyone it would be VIA Rail.
There was a video on Youtube that indicated they had a yard of old RDC's and were thinking of re-furbishing and re-establishing some RDC runs nationally.
Given your comments about the lack of spares this may be a moot point unless they go in a completely different direction for the drive trains.


----------



## RailRoadX (Aug 14, 2017)

GTW son said:


> GO would not be looking for RDC's, if anyone it would be VIA Rail.
> There was a video on Youtube that indicated they had a yard of old RDC's and were thinking of re-furbishing and re-establishing some RDC runs nationally.
> Given your comments about the lack of spares this may be a moot point unless they go in a completely different direction for the drive trains.


Hello GTW Son,

I recall when the bids went public that VIA (or the Canadian concern) had offered slightly over "scrap" price for the vehicles (the DMU/RDC's are all stainless-steel bodies, a little over half of the car's 135000lbs weight) and AllEarth RR shall we say "got taken to the cleaners" for $4mm for 10/12 cars and I am not aware of what Portland paid? I'm not certain of this but I think Portland purchased two of the RDC's from AllEarth RR, not sure though.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Quite a diversion from the rarity of Dallas/TRE models. Vestibules open or closed, Via Rail, whatever, not sure it helps put together a vintage 2006 DART commuter train, which certainly didn't have F59PHIs or Bombardier bi-level cars. I am fairly confused with all this viv-a-vis my own experience riding DART from downtown as far as Plano and also what my research turned up. Whatever cars DART bought were said to be refurbed, and maybe weak transmissions resolved? Well, the preponderance of evidence given has made me think to the devil with all of it. No Bombardier, just use the undecorated RDCs for a Nowhere, USA, commuter line.


----------



## RailRoadX (Aug 14, 2017)

pmcgurin said:


> Quite a diversion from the rarity of Dallas/TRE models. Vestibules open or closed, Via Rail, whatever, not sure it helps put together a vintage 2006 DART commuter train, which certainly didn't have F59PHIs or Bombardier bi-level cars. I am fairly confused with all this viv-a-vis my own experience riding DART from downtown as far as Plano and also what my research turned up. Whatever cars DART bought were said to be refurbed, and maybe weak transmissions resolved? Well, the preponderance of evidence given has made me think to the devil with all of it. No Bombardier, just use the undecorated RDCs for a Nowhere, USA, commuter line.


Hello,

To add clarity to the discussion, I was the CMO from 11/2007 to 10/2013. When I arrived on site at the TRE railyard in Irving there were 4 F-59PH's and 2 F-59PH-I's (EMD-710) and 13 RDC's with 21 Bombardier Bi-Level coaches in the TRE fleet. In 2008, the TRE (DART and the then Fort Worth Transportation Authority (aka then The-T) {now they are known as Trinity Metro} are the joint owners of the TRE) added four new Bombardier Bi-Level coaches which I believed had been "piggybacked" with a Seattle order to the best of my recollection. And, in 2009 the COO (of TRE) and I went to GO Transit in Toronto and purchased 3 F-59PH's from them and HTI won the overhaul contract and the locomotives were overhauled in Altoona, PA at the NS shops and RLCX (RELCO) overhauled the original TRE four F-59PH's at their Albia, IA location (RLCX was purchased by Wabtec a few years back). A little railroad trivia, the two TRE F-59PH-I's were rated Sub-Zero emissions and were the very last two F-59's rolled off the LaGrange assembly line produced by EMD for the TRE exclusively in or around 2000. All nine vehicles had their HEP's upgraded from CAT 3412's to C-27 series 480v units, (Hope my memory with these numbers are correct!). Probably doesn't help your model situation, but just a little historical/hysterical context! Good luck with your model railroading!


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

pmcgurin said:


> Quite a diversion from the rarity of Dallas/TRE models. Vestibules open or closed, Via Rail, whatever, not sure it helps put together a vintage 2006 DART commuter train, which certainly didn't have F59PHIs or Bombardier bi-level cars. I am fairly confused with all this viv-a-vis my own experience riding DART from downtown as far as Plano and also what my research turned up. Whatever cars DART bought were said to be refurbed, and maybe weak transmissions resolved? Well, the preponderance of evidence given has made me think to the devil with all of it. No Bombardier, just use the undecorated RDCs for a Nowhere, USA, commuter line.


Your right we sorta got off the rails on your subject, anyway, one good thing about this hobby is poetic license.
You can go which ever way you want, I ran Amtrak coaches with my GO loco for years.
Kinda held my nose....but it worked....
Sounds like you have a plan for a Dart/TRE consist, may not be 100% actual or perfect but as long as your happy.


----------



## Viperjim01 (Jul 31, 2021)

Dallas tre and Utah runners on feebay


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Yes, I decided to sell my Dallas/TRE F59PHI and use the proceeds to get an Amtrak loco, because I just lost interest in the Bombardier cars. Bilevel commuter trains don't do it for me.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

I dunno, I don't think I'd completely shelf the Dallas/TRE idea but at least with Amtrak there will be more rolling stock available, possibly at a more affordable price than the Dallas/TRE stuff.
The minute you sell the loco Bomber cars in the Dallas/TRE version will be falling from the skies for nickels and dimes (Yes the sky in my universe is another color).
Aren't some of Amtrak's coaches bi-level now anyway? 
Are you still toying with the RDC version Of the Dallas/TRE?


----------



## Viperjim01 (Jul 31, 2021)

There was one of those on feebay a couple days ago. Custom rdc and starting bid was 100$


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Yes, I have six Amtrak bilevel coaches, and a Genesis P42 to pull them. I also had the four car Amtrak smoothside set and an Amtrak E 8/9 to pull them, when I stumbled on the six car Amtrak smoothside set for a low cost. I recently put the LED light kits in all of them. A real job, and I sometimes cuss the flicker in the LEDs. 

Yes, if the Dallas/TRE F59PHI sells, the Bombardier cars will appeat for sale reasonably, but how much stuff can one expect to collect? I think I am going to sell more stuff so my wife won't give it to Goodwill when I am gone. I have had the pleasure of collecting a bunch of stuff, and getting rid of stuff like the Dallas loco that keeps me from concentrating on a layout and coherent stuff to center it around will help me build something. I think narrowing focus will help, instead of running Amtrak, Amtrak, Amtrak, Canadian National, more CN, Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Burlington Northern, more BN, Great Northern, PRR, Wabash and more passenger trains. You can lose focus and just have ovals on a picnic table until you buy the farm. There's a farm in my backyard and I am 73. Gotta shed some of this stuff, because I tend to put a train up, run it around once and put something else up.


----------



## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Well, just go and leave us to soon here....but I get where your coming from, my father left my mother with a cabinet full of steamers and period correct diesels from his time at GT and the CNR.
They sit untouched right now out of some kind of respect I guess you'd call it.
I dabble in this hobby and know 1 or 2 things, its the other 98 or 99 things that get you.


----------

