# Opinions wanted.



## Duck52 (Jan 31, 2018)

Using DCC (NCE PowerCab with CP6 circuit protector).
I have tortoise switch machines and to start off I plan on controlling them with a facia switch. I am going to need more machines to complete the layout and may eventually want to control them with the dcc. It is my understanding that with the proper electronics that the tortoise can be adapted to dcc, but the power draw may exceed the the PowerCab capacity.(no booster) At this point no track has been laid.
Questions
1) Do I sell the tortoise and get all Smail? I assume I can run the Smail with the facia switch until I go to dcc control.
a.Will I have the same power issues with the Smail.
2) Do I/can I mix and match and just use the Smail where dcc control would be of benefit?
3) Do I just stay with the tortoise and forget the dcc and or do the convertions as needed.
4) Am I eventually going to need to add the booster? Would result in changing the circuit protection (CP6 vs EB1)
It's a bedroom layout with a max of 2 operators.
Other options? Thank you.


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

You should have the Torti (sp?) powered by their own dedicated power supply (nothing to do with your DCC). A wall wart will do. I believe there is a DCC board that will allow you to control the Torti via a front panel spdt (or dpdt) switch and via your DCC controller at the same time.


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## Duck52 (Jan 31, 2018)

Thank you, I'm aware that the tortoise is powered from a dc source. My understanding is that the devise that makes it DCC compatible is powered by the track bus which can affect the dcc power source.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The Smail Tortoise turnout motor is powered
thru the DCC bus. Multiply the stalled amp draw of
each Smail by the number you have. That will
tell you if you need to add another booster. 

The question for you to determine, do you really
want to add more addresses to your DCC
controller? Most of us have our hands full
controlling 2 or 3 trains with the controller,
especially if you have sound and want to
whistle for crossings etc. Do you really want
to control your turnouts also? It seems to me
you'd be as busy and a piano player doing it all.

I fully enjoy my DCC system. But I have three
different panels to control the turnouts. At a glance
the panel LEDs tell me point positions, and a push
button throws them. I can do that with one hand
while the other is running the trains on the controller.

Of course, if you plan to go to an automated layout
you would want to use the Smail systems that
can be controlled by computer.

Don


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## Duck52 (Jan 31, 2018)

Don, Thank you for your reply. 
You pretty much nailed my thoughts. But with no actual hands on experience its nice to have them reinforced by someone that knows what he speaks of. For us newbies it's easy to be drawn into that tangled electronic web. " Must have the latest and greatest" even though I am not sure what that is


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I am also of the opinion that controlling turnouts through the DCC system is overrated.

I would stick with the fascia controllers as a much more realistic approach. 

If you don't like the "conductor on the ground throwing the points" approach, consider a separate dispatcher panel (which, again, would be controlled independently of the DCC system).


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

If you're planning to throw the turnout from a toggle switch on the fascia, there's no reason to make the tortoise controlled by a DCC decoder. Just wire it directly.

Personally I would only use DCC decoders or other fancy electronics for switch control if building a computerized CTC system.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Turnout control*



Duck52 said:


> Using DCC (NCE PowerCab with CP6 circuit protector).
> I have tortoise switch machines and to start off I plan on controlling them with a facia switch. I am going to need more machines to complete the layout and may eventually want to control them with the dcc. It is my understanding that with the proper electronics that the tortoise can be adapted to dcc, but the power draw may exceed the the PowerCab capacity.(no booster) At this point no track has been laid.
> Questions
> 1) Do I sell the tortoise and get all Smail? I assume I can run the Smail with the facia switch until I go to dcc control.
> ...


Duck52;

I'm going to agree with the others that controlling turnouts with your DCC system is rather silly. The device that does this is called a stationary decoder. You would need one stationary decoder, or one output of a multi-output decoder, for each turnout. The stationary decoders would get expensive rather quickly if you wanted to run a lot of turnouts. The Tortoise is an excellent switch machine and works just fine with a simple DPDT toggle switch mounted on the fascia, or control panel. The separate power supply (wall wart, old DC power pack, etc.) handles all the load with no power drawn from the Procab, saving you the cost of a booster. Unless you are planing a computer-controlled layout, I don't see any point in spending the extra money on DCC control of turnouts.

Like you, I use the NCE Procab, but only for running trains. 
I use Hankscraft motors to operate my turnouts. Because of my disability, I mount them up front, where I can access them easily. I wire them for "route control", where a single control panel switch will align all the turnouts for a selected route. Simple, analog, DC-based, control system to do a somewhat complicated task. No computer, or DCC stationary decoders, necessary. Just set one rotary switch, and you're done. It doesn't get much simpler than that! 

Note:The four slide switches on the left (white) side of the control panel, operate the motors for opening/closing four sets of double doors on the engine house directly above them. The single toggle switch centered between them, turns the engine house lights on & off. All the turnouts in this little five-track yard are controlled solely by the single rotary switch on the right (orange) side of the panel.

Have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Duck52 (Jan 31, 2018)

Thank you all for your replies. You have reinforced my original thoughts. Going to use the KISS method. Facia control with an LED where appropriate.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I use SwitchMaster's (Hankscraft motors), but I do control them with Digitrax DS64's. They do not need to be connected to the loconet (but there are Loconet daisy chanin connectors on them. The DS64 just gives me the option to use a single pushbutton to actuate the turnout. I also put a bipolar LED (2 leads, and two colors depending upon which way the current flows thru the LED) in series with the resistor and motor to give a panel LED that shows the condition of the turn out. I think you can do the same with your torts' as they have a low current draw. I also tried MOLEII switch machines, but I find them just a fussing to install as torts and take a much larger current. You can't beat SwitchMasters for ease of installation!


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Withdrawn


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Since we've now diverged into "alternatives to the Tortoise" territory, I'll chime in. I use mini servos from Tam Valley Depot. It's a simple and elegant solution, much like the Walthers one (so much so that I'm sure Walthers was inspired by it). You can use 1 Octo III for up to 8 servos (each can have it's own activation switch), and the fascia controllers are push buttons with incorporated LEDs (mono- or bicolor, as desired). The other great thing about this setup is that if you do decide to convert to DCC control later, you only need ONE decoder per Octo III rather than one per turnout.

Check out all of their offerings here: www.tamvalleydepot.com

If you're pricing things, you can take the quantity discount for the number you eventually intend to buy, even if you don't order them all at once.


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## Duck52 (Jan 31, 2018)

Gee thanks CTV 
Just when I thought I had my mind made up and you throw that at me. It looks simple, intriguing and cost effective, but for better or worse I've already purchased most of my tortoise machines so I guess I will continue on that route.


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## Duck52 (Jan 31, 2018)

Now that I have your attention. 
I am planning on using a DPDT switch with bi-color LEDS.
Looking for recommendations on brands and sources or should I say are there any I should avoid?
Also what guage of wire ? From the power source to the switch and from the switch-LEDs- to the tortoise ? (planning on putting a terminal block between the switch/LEDs and the Tortoise. Thanks again.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*LEDs switches & more*



Duck52 said:


> Now that I have your attention.
> I am planning on using a DPDT switch with bi-color LEDS.
> Looking for recommendations on brands and sources or should I say are there any I should avoid?
> Also what guage of wire ? From the power source to the switch and from the switch-LEDs- to the tortoise ? (planning on putting a terminal block between the switch/LEDs and the Tortoise. Thanks again.


Duck52;

LEDs don't draw much current, so most any size wire will work to light them. I don't use Tortoise motors, but I hear they are also fairly low current draw. 22-18ga. wire would certainly work. 
The Tortoise contains a micro-switch and I suggest using that to change the color of your LEDs, rather than just switching colors with one side of a DPDT toggle switch. The Tortoise's micro-switch will tell you which position the Tortoise (and the turnout) is in. The toggle switch arrangement will only tell you what you can see with your own eyes, which position the toggle switch right in front of you, is in. Not necessarily what the turnout's position is. You really only need a SPDT toggle switch to operate a Tortoise, though one side of a DPDT toggle switch will work just as well.

You can order just about any electronic component you could ever want from www.allelectronics.com or from www.amazon.com 

have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Duck52 said:


> Gee thanks CTV
> Just when I thought I had my mind made up and you throw that at me. It looks simple, intriguing and cost effective, but for better or worse I've already purchased most of my tortoise machines so I guess I will continue on that route.


Any time! :laugh: 

Any thing else I can do to give you buyer's remorse over a purchase, just let me know!


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