# Does Lionel hate me, or just themselves?



## TGAinCMH (10 mo ago)

I promise there's a question at the end of all of this. But first a bit of background.

I'm pretty new to the hobby. Which is to say I've had a train set for 40+ years and only recently thought about doing more than running it around the Christmas tree every few years.

Since I already owned two Lionel O gauge locomotives and a bunch of track, that made my decision on which route to go easy. Or so I thought! It would be a gross understatement to say that Lionel has made this _anything_ but easy.

At some point while I wasn't paying attention, Lionel invented a control system called *TMCC*... then sunset it 10 years later. Then they invented an even newer control system, and in the worst marketing move of all time decided to call it *Legacy*. (Because "Legacy" always refers to the newest, most high tech stuff, right?) Then they invented a scaled down version of Legacy called *LionChief*. Then a newer, slightly less-scaled-down version called *LionChief+*. Now they are on LionChief 5.0 and LionChief+ 2.0. And in this case, 2.0 > 5.0.

Really you can't make this stuff up.

It took me weeks to figure out that Legacy was the top of the line and didn't refer to something built in the 1950's. Then a couple more weeks to figure out that LionChief wasn't the name of a Santa Fe locomotive, but rather the control system for a whole line of locomotives.

So then I started doing some research on what it takes to actually create a Legacy setup. And found SCANT little information. (Beginner's guide to Legacy, anyone? Doesn't exist. Hello Lionel, I'm talking to you.) I've been able to piece together that I need something called a 990 base unit, and maybe a remote called a CAB1 or a CAB2, possibly something called a PowerHouse, and some other stuff I don't remember. And I'll probably be $1000 into it at that point, which is absurd. Because none of it is worth anything until I buy some _really _expensive Legacy locomotives.

So naturally I started looking for a 990. And I CAN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE. No one sells it, at least not online, which is the only place I shop. I have to say, when I can't find something on Amazon, it makes me doubt whether that thing actually exists. The only place I was finally able to locate this fabled, unicorn-like piece of equipment is on eBay, where used ones are being auctioned off for $1300!!

WHY?


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

They are discontinuing the 990, and replacing it with something new. Just be glad its not apple, then you would need to upgrade every year.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I think my local hobby shop had one, call the train doctor. Before they raise the price.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Well I have one but apparently yeah they've decided to replace it with a newer product. I would not pay $1300 for a 990. No way man. In your case you can skip over it and go with the new system whatever it's called.

In theory you could run the non proprietary dcc system popular in I think pretty much all other scales ..

But you'd have to convert your existing ones and then any new ones .. and I guess some folks do this but generally speaking it seems most do not ...

Btw .. let me add this. I voted above that they hate all their customers equally. Actually this isn't true but they are nearing monopoly in o scale/gauge and pretty make much think they can do whatever they want... More or less ...


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I get it , all change is bad. Lol. Good thing most of my stuff is from the 50s , so I have nothing to worry about!


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

TGAinCMH said:


> I promise there's a question at the end of all of this. But first a bit of background.
> 
> I'm pretty new to the hobby. Which is to say I've had a train set for 40+ years and only recently thought about doing more than running it around the Christmas tree every few years.
> 
> ...


HO is a lot less confusing and more consistent. Also, there is no monopoly in HO and different aspects are standardized and manufactures don't generally change things on a whim or try to re-invent the wheel.

Embrace the Dark Side.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It’s your own choice to torture yourself….nobody else’s….


----------



## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

I never delved into those operating systems you mentioned, TMCC or Legacy. But I wanted a step up from post-war technology. I found LC+ to be just right for my needs. It's just right for me. The KISS system or Keep It Simple Stupid.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They just hate you, I get along with Legacy just fine.


----------



## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

TGAinCMH, I feel you. I got started four years ago and had all the same questions. I had to laugh about your comments regarding their naming. Stupid.


----------



## RedJimmy1955 (Aug 23, 2021)

Hey TGA...I only use the original Lionel TMCC system, and it's just FINE for me! That said, take the advice of what others have said and you go with conventional running trains....that leaves out the ill fated electronics bugga boos....Me thinks you'll feel better about trains!


----------



## TGAinCMH (10 mo ago)

Madman said:


> I found LC+ to be just right for my needs. It's just right for me. The KISS system or Keep It Simple Stupid.


That's the conclusion I've recently reached too. Lower price point and easier entry for a casual hobbyist. Just wish I had understood the difference between LC and LC+ before I sunk $350 into the LionChief Polar Express set. Errors are costly in this hobby. Speaking of which...



MichaelE said:


> HO is a lot less confusing and more consistent. Also, there is no monopoly in HO and different aspects are standardized and manufactures don't generally change things on a whim or try to re-invent the wheel. Embrace the Dark Side.


In hindsight I might have gone that route. That was before I sunk (what is to me) an ungodly amount of money in replacing all my O27 track with FasTrack, new accessories, new rolling stock, and new locomotives.  The other deciding factor is I have a two year old grandson, and I thought O scale would be easier for him. Of course, now I've cursed him to a lifetime of Lionel patronage; he'll probably never forgive me when he's old enough to realize what I've done!



gunrunnerjohn said:


> They just hate you, I get along with Legacy just fine.


I suspected that was the case. Thanks for confirming.


----------



## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

I run conventional... A quiet, sleepy, peaceful town with 7 trains that never, well - hardly ever, stop.


----------



## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

Any pics ?


----------



## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

MohawkMike said:


> I run conventional... A quiet, sleepy, peaceful town with 7 trains that never, well - hardly ever, stop.



If LC+ never came into being, I would be running conventional. But having experienced LC+, I wonder how I ever got the trains spotted in front of the proper accessory.....


----------



## TGAinCMH (10 mo ago)

BigGRacing said:


> Any pics ?


I created a video of my layout. And posted a backstory here.


----------

