# Is there anything more of a chore than ballasting?



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I hate it. But it has to be done. :smilie_daumenneg:

This area was previously partly ballasted but it was never glued down. 

I tried three different spray bottles I had here and none of them would feed watered down glue for more than several pumps before clogging up. I was about to pull out my hair. GD crap.

When it did work, right before it quit it would start shooting a stream that would wipe out the ballast that it struck and push it over the tracks, or off of the tie ends onto the layout.

I ended up re-ballasting with new dry ballast and just dripping the glue mixture from the end of a brush until it was soaked. Stayed in place, time consuming as heck and now it's Weissbeir time.

Damn. What a pain in the ***. This section had to be ready for catenary, because once that's installed your scenery making is over. Fugitaboutit.

It"s not even dry in these photos hence the splotchy look.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Yes it's a PITA.

Wash bottles (aka: squeeze bottles) makes it bearable. Both for the pre-glue alcohol soak and the 50/50 glue/water mix.

https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Bottle-Squeeze-Narrow-DEPEPE/dp/B07DB1HCKP

Just be sure to clean the glue bottle good between ballast sessions.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

And... ya done good on the ballast.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

After applying the ballast on the track, I groom it with my soft bristle tooth brush. Dress up the sides of the ballast too. Before applying the water I go over the ballast and press it down with my finger or thumb. I use a Windex spray bottle with water and a couple drops of dish soap to soak down the ballast. Don't spray directly onto the ballast but let it rain down. I use an old ketchup squeeze bottle with the 50/50 glue water mix with a drop of dish soap in it to take the surface tension off the water. After applying the water/glue I spray it again to help the puddles of glue/water soak in better.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I use a 1" brush to to pretty it up on the edges and get it off of the ties.

I'm going to have to find a bottle that will shoot a more vicious mixture than water/alcohol.

You can bet it's not going anywhere with the mixture dripping from a brush. Still a PITA.

But thanks guys. I just wanted someone to "feel my pain" as Bill Clinton said.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

It is painstaking if you want it to look realistic. But really, nobody holds your feet to the fire for any part of the hobby. What I do is I ballast three feet at a time, and then I leave it to run trains or do something else...join the wife at the TV...whatever.

I pour, groom with a longish soft camel-hair artists brush, spray with alcohol, and then dribble glue from a twist cap glue bottle that has been diluted about five parts water to one part glue, with two drops of liquid dish detergent added. Don't forget to drop two small clean pebbles into the neck of the bottle before you close it up. They're handy when giving it all a shake. :smilie_daumenpos:

Yeah, I know, we all have many more feet of track to ballast than just the three I was mentioning. But that's for tomorrow, next week, next month...the hobby takes a lifetime. Do three feet at a time...WELL!!...and walk away. Before you know it, you're done and can move onto another chore...weathering the rails and the ballast.


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## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

I lay my ballast down, brush between the rails, and contour the sides. I use 70% isopropyl alcohol, sprayed with a craft bottle sprayer, a gentle sweeping motion with the mist. I use a 30cc syringe, and soak the ballast. I hate to say this, but it’s quick. I have my ballast glue in a glass mason jar, and just suck up the glue with the syringe. I just gently apply pressure to the syringe. I do about 1 foot at a time of glueing, but I’ve laid down about 3 feet of ballast. The other thing I do is to make sure that all my supplies are well organized (ie paper towel, extra supplies, and a cold drink).

The one thing I don’t do is try to fix any ballast after it been freshly glued. That never works out. Once I’m done ballasting, I leave the room, so as to not mess around with it.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, I agree with you that it's a royal PITA, but I've gotten pretty good at it. The key is patience and taking your time -- which is made even harder by the fact that most of us just want it finished, already!

I apply it with a Dixie cup that I pinch into a spout, then groom it with a soft brush.

Next, I use a pipette to dribble diluted isopropyl alcohol (70% store strength, diluted 50% with filtered water) onto the ballast, allowing it to wick up into the ballast until it is thoroughly wet.

Then I apply dilute matte medium (1 part matte medium, 4 parts water, and 1 drop of dishwashing liquid per cup of solution -- and after the talc settles out, I decant the adhesive into an old glue bottle). I dribble the adhesive from the glue bottle.

For both of the previous steps, I dribble liquid only on the ties and let it run off into the ballast. This helps keep the ballast where I put it.

After applying the adhesive, I groom the ballast with a foam paintbrush. Then I walk away for 48 hours.

When the ballast is dry, I touch up any spots that need it.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

Just a quick note, Home Depot sells Paver Sand Glue which sprays on. A Gallon of the liquid is $30-40 but covers quite a bit and can be applied a couple times if needed. Anybody try that??? I read the directions and the landscapers use it to hold the sand in place around pavers and flagstone (Not talking about the polymeric sand)... Hmmmm

I'll try it before monkeying around with watered down Elmers and a acid brush......


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

for ballast i used dap adhesive thinned with water, and a bit of dishwashing soap ....squeeze bottles for both the glue mix, and the beforehand alcohol wash made it pretty easy ...
i used sandblasting sand, still have a lot left over .. green ground cover on the sides, some small talus .. did about 200 feet of mainline


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

To answer the original question, YES. Cleaning.

While ballasting track can be a giant PITA, the track looks so much better when you are done. And you only do it once.

Cleaning track and wheels is a chore that has to be done periodically to keep things running smoothly and when you are done, the layout doesn’t look ant better.


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

I am thinking the project MichaelE is taking on is going to be a booger. I have tried a little of ballasting on my program track. Not to good at it for sure.

Question for all you experts. I run N scale Kato track. It is supposed to represent ballast I think. Do you guys recommend ballasting it or just try to paint to match the terrain? It sets so high it makes the ballasted area look to big to me.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Ballast is often quarried, crushed, and stockpiled locally, so it can be...might be...something that looks local. Often though, it is not and must be tracked in by hoppers from some distance away where the rocks are distinctly different in appearance.

When fashioning a model train layout, you have to like and enjoy what you see, and what you end up showing to others to share the joy of your creation. If you think something doesn't look right, mock up somewhat removable, say some thin box cardboard to which some thinly spread terrain has been glued, and place it up tight to the ballast. Does that look better? If not, then live with what you have. 

Remember, ballast serves two purposes...flotation/support and drainage. Well, three actually...maintaining grade where possible and practicable. Where the local water table is generally high, just a foot below the surface, say, or where flooding is common, you will want your precious ties and the rails suspended somewhat higher than the 100 year flood level. That's where well-groomed and well-maintained ballast comes into play. And, in order to afford its owners the security they desire, the berm may be as much as three full feet on average above the local terrain. That kind of security don't come cheap when it's trucked from afar, but that's what you gotta do if you want to maintain ops and revenue.

So....what's your story? What is the 'history' and what are the local operating conditions for your railroad?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Emperor of the North said:


> Just a quick note, Home Depot sells Paver Sand Glue which sprays on. A Gallon of the liquid is $30-40 but covers quite a bit and can be applied a couple times if needed. Anybody try that??? I read the directions and the landscapers use it to hold the sand in place around pavers and flagstone (Not talking about the polymeric sand)... Hmmmm
> 
> I'll try it before monkeying around with watered down Elmers and a acid brush......


I've laid over 1000 square feet of pavers in my day, and have never heard of this stuff.

Are you sure it has texture to it? It might just be a liquid adhesive to hold the jointing sand in place.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

It's just a liquid adhesive. It would hold whatever you are using for ballast in place. At least that's the plan man..... :dunno:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Emperor of the North said:


> It's just a liquid adhesive. It would hold whatever you are using for ballast in place. At least that's the plan man..... :dunno:


So will any number of things. My home-brewed adhesive costs a lot less than that stuff, and works just fine.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

the reason I went with an adhesive that dries semi flexible was that I felt there would be less noise than with a ridgid or non flexible adhesive ..that why I used thinned DAP


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

CTValleyRR said:


> So will any number of things. My home-brewed adhesive costs a lot less than that stuff, and works just fine.


It's in the ease of application is what I was getting at. Do you have to glop yours on with a brush or???? The point is finding easier ways of doing things and I asked if anybody had tried it... I'm not so old as to fight finding ways to do things easier. I wonder who came up with "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"??? Your "WAY" may work for you and it may be cheap but time is money my good man and if it cost $100 but saved me 4 days, I'm spending the $100... DIG?


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

CTValleyRR said:


> Well, I agree with you that it's a royal PITA, but I've gotten pretty good at it. The key is patience and taking your time -- which is made even harder by the fact that most of us just want it finished, already!
> 
> I apply it with a Dixie cup that I pinch into a spout, then groom it with a soft brush.
> 
> ...



After reading this fiasco, you wonder why I would try to find an easier way??? OMG But, if it works for you.....


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

if it matters .. i used a small metal spoon to dribble the ballast on turnouts, i have two dozen or so, i also used the spoon to 'tap' on the rail, settling the ballast down, and a small brush ..
it took me -i think- two evenings to do 200 feet of ballasting , or so, was six / seven years ago


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Emperor of the North said:


> After reading this fiasco, you wonder why I would try to find an easier way??? OMG But, if it works for you.....


Took me longer to type that description than it would to do 5' of track, and I'm a fast typist. Speed is a fine thing, but not if it results in sloppy work. Of course, what works for me may not work for you, and that's fine -- but you won't catch me doing ANY slipping of anything on my layout. 

My solution to the unpleasant chore of ballasting was to become so proficient at it that I can do an excellent job quickly. I use the method I described. Good luck finding a technique and materials that works for you.


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