# I am done with Bachmann hoppers



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I have a good amount of Bachmann stuff, and in general I like it.. maybe not detailed enough for some but that doesn't bother me.

I recently purchased a Bachmann covered Hopper silver series (the multi colored one) for my son. It is his favorite car... except it derails ALL the TIME.. easily twice as often as any other car. It is pretty light and I feel that is it's problem.

So how to add weight? I try to take it apart gently and find that the ladders are glued in place and so are the little tabs that hold it all together.

I look on the internet and see where people have drilled a hole in the bottom and inserted nuts and BBs. I try to drill in to it and find out there is a metal plate along the bottom. This is to add weight but it doesn't add enough... 

So now I have a hopper my son likes, but cannot use and there is no way to add weight to make it run better.. $20 down the tubes, thanks Bachmann.


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## FOURTEEN (Feb 16, 2016)

drill through the metal plate and then add the other weight to bring it us to standards. I then put in white glue and plugged the hole so noething leaked out. Problem solved.


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

Remember "WKRP"? "Speed kills, Dell"! The urge for the quick fix is strong I KNOW!

Before I rip anything apart I ask to see if anyone else has and they usually have and can tell me how to do it without ruining it. I've done it solo and made a mistake or twelve! Hate to see it happen to a nice fellow who is trying to get in on some sweet train time with his son!


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

If you ever installed ceiling fans, they usually come with a weight kit for balancing. If you kept them, the 5gm weights might be enough weight to stabilize it if cut and glued to the bottom and then painted with your mad weathering skills to look like hatches on the hopper. Dunno.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*weight*

Good morning,all.. You can also use model airplane weights that come in different weights and are self stick.Peel the paper off back and stick them under the bottom out of sight. They are cut-able also to fit almost anywhere.

Hope this helps,gotta go,times awastin,Have a great day,sanepilot


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I suspect there is a different problem with the car besides weight. Does it seem to derail at turnouts? The trip pin might be too low. If so bend it up some. Be careful, you might break the coupler. Another problem could be the wheel spacing on an axle. If you have a gauge check it. If  not, measure a few of your other cars and see how far apart the wheels are. Flange to flange. I have some silver series and they are usually heavier than
other cars. Since your sons car is derailing so much there is something wrong besides
weight. If one of the two things I mentioned are bad you can put all the weight you 
want and it will still derail. Good luck. Let us know.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I would bet on trip pin being too low. Put car on track and get down and close to see if the trip pin (that's the thing that looks like a brake hose) is above the rails. Not much
but some. It will catch on a turnout and derail the car, I have had to bend many of them. 
Use needle nose pliers and hold the coupler in one hand and use pliers with the other hand.
It will not take much.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

KaDee sells a pliers that will bend the trip pin without putting any strain on the coupler shank, and includes instructions on how to use it. Or I used to get a pliers big enough to reach over the pin from the end to the top where it came out the top of the coupler, you could then bend it up without putting any stress on the coupler shank. To bend the pin down Squeeze with a wide flat pliers on the curved part of the pin, straightening it and moving the end down. The KaDee tool is otherwise known as a looping pliers and is sold in several sizes for jewelry making.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The kadee pliers work well and are a useful tool. Don't blame Bachmann. Its just
part of fine tuning your trains. I have had to adjust trip pins on athearn, BLI locos.
I hate derails. There is a reason for derails and you just have to find the problem.
I can run my trains for an hour and not have a derail. It took some work, but it is
worth it.


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I have the pliers and the Kadee gauge.. and the NMRA gauge.. all are in good shape as far as that goes.

This thing will derail on turns, straight track, and of course turnouts.. it will go along and the front wheels will just turn sideways. Also it looks kinda funny while rolling along. it sits real high on the rails, but this is my only hopper so I figured they all do that.

I had thought that maybe I had a warped truck because it doesn't always look right on the tracks. I put it on a piece of glass and found that one wheel was not even with the rest. I removed the wheels and put them back on and it looked better so I figured the wheel had gotten unseated. Maybe the truck is warped. 

The stick on weights seem to be a good option in this case... not completely invisible but if I paint them it won't look too bad and at least I will be able to use the car.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

I have several Bachmann Silver Series hoppers and I can tell you weight is not an issue. On one I got right out of the box, one of the wheel sets was out of the truck. Another it was not quite in the truck correctly. Both were an easy fix. Just pop the wheel set into the truck so it is in correctly. 

If the wheel sets are sitting in the trucks properly, check to see if the truck is warped. They are plastic and that can happen. The fix for that is to replace the truck.

I have many Bachman Silver series freight cars and find them to be quite a value. They roll very smoothly and are heavier than many others. I have had to adjust the "brake hose" on some to keep it from catching on ties or turnouts.


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Hey Dave
I agree that in general Bachmann is a good value. From an engineering point of view I like the way they do their trucks, with the large round mounting platform for the truck to center on and the large screw hole/tit/thingie that slips into the hole in the truck. I like the large screws that hold the truck on.. it all seems to be a good setup to me.

I don't like that they are non-standard and I cannot use the same truck for them as I can for any other piece of rolling stock in the world. All minor points to be sure however.

This just seems like a lot of work to go through for a brand new piece of rolling stock. It should work fairly reasonably out of the box.. and this piece does not. 

So I will have to try to find the Bachmann specific trucks and order a set and see if that fixes it. If it does not, I am going to "fix" it with a hammer.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Pat -- slow down! Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! I understand frustration, but don't go buying a new set of trucks and then give up if they don't fix the problem. Yes, I know you're just blowing off steam and probably not serious, but still.

Keep in mind that the whole "Ready to Run (Roll)" thing is relatively new to the hobby. Most of us who've been here a while expect to have to tweak things out of the box a little bit. The "Ready to Run" nomenclature really means, it will work, but maybe not very well. Despite most companies making RTR models, many of the parts are not interchangeable, although you can usually adapt just about anyone's parts to someone else's model, if you're careful about it. 

Have you identified what's wrong with it? We're talking about weight, coupler pins, trucks, appearance while rolling, maybe something else I've forgotten. What's wrong? Start with the obvious and easily corrected -- pull out the scale, the standards gauge, the coupler height gauge and check everything. And never say never, or no way. It's not impossible, just harder than you expected. Said another way, "The difficult is that which can be done immediately, the impossible that which takes a little longer." If everything is within standards and at the proper weight, then start on the harder stuff. The car may be riding a little high, it may be top heavy, the trucks may be too loose, the wheels out of alignment (IOW, they both track straight, but not parallel to the centerline of the car), or any one of a half dozen other problems. Get under it with a flashlight and watch where it derails. See if you can see why.

Yes, it can be tedious and time consuming, but it beats throwing money down the train!


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> but it beats throwing money down the train!


I see what you did there. Very creative


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> "The difficult is that which can be done immediately, the impossible that which takes a little longer."


GOD I love that quote. It reminds me of hours spent playing Fallout.. It was in a song included in the sound track of the game.

Below is a little info on the quote as it relates to the sing it is contained in. The quote itself is actually MUCH older.

Music written by Bob and performed by Tommy Dorsey's Clambake Seven with Bob on piano. Lyrics written by Buddy Bernier and sung by Edythe Wright. Audio provided by Dorothy Emmerich.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Overkast said:


> I see what you did there. Very creative


Heh, heh. I wish I could take credit for a very creative pun, but it was a very careless typo....


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I guess that is something I do not get with this hobby... I am not trying to disrespect anyone or even this hobby.. but it seems it lacks a certain amount of maturity as a hobby, even though it has been around for near 100 years.

If I purchased a car, or a computer game, or anything else and it did not work until I spent hours messing with it... that item would not last long on the market. Imagine if you purchased a Toyota and you couldn't actually drive it until you took it to the service station to have the wheels aligned, the engine tuned up, etc. 

I have purchased many Model Train items in the last couple months and with a huge amount of them you have to check gauges, file a little here, add a little there (turnouts, locos, cars). I understand that this is all part of the hobby and could be considered fun, it strikes me that in any other realm this simply would not be tolerated.

I find this hobby immensely enjoyable but at times inconsistencies with manufacturing get frustrating.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

pat_smith1969 said:


> GOD I love that quote.


I love me a good quote! I have an entire 30 page Word document full of ones I like.

I like it's reuse in the music. Very clever.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

pat_smith1969 said:


> I guess that is something I do not get with this hobby... I am not trying to disrespect anyone or even this hobby.. but it seems it lacks a certain amount of maturity as a hobby, even though it has been around for near 100 years.
> 
> If I purchased a car, or a computer game, or anything else and it did not work until I spent hours messing with it... that item would not last long on the market. Imagine if you purchased a Toyota and you couldn't actually drive it until you took it to the service station to have the wheels aligned, the engine tuned up, etc.
> 
> ...


Not disrespectful! Discussion. As long as it's civil, it's all good!

As I said, though, "Ready to Run" is relatively new. This used to be a hobby where assembly and tweaking was part of the hobby. Still is.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, though. How many new cars get recalls to fix problems that arguably should have been caught in design or production QA? And lord knows how many computer games are unplayable without extensive patching. Your model railroading stuff works about the same level of perfection -- it works, but not as well as it could.

There is another factor at play, and that is the outsourcing of production and reduction in QA to keep costs down. And WE'RE the ones at fault, because we insist on lower, or at least constant, prices in a niche hobby which relies on large margins (per item profit) to remain viable. You pay $75 for a basic Bachmann, you run the risk of having to tune it. Not so much with that $500 import. Likewise higher end rolling stock from Exactrail, Tangent, Walthers Proto, and Rapido typically require less tuning than Bachmann and Accurail. More expensive wheelsets, track, turnouts, etc., are more likely to be in gauge than cheaper brands. And I think you find this relationship in most industries. I have seen the head fly off of a brand new Ping golf club, but issues with big-box Wilson products are much more common.

So, kind of into a thread hijack here, but worth discussing.


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

If I was commander of the universe... which I am not but I am running for that office..

I would make two levels of Model Trains.. the "exact" level where the wheels and track are exact to the proto type. And a more casual level (call it HO-2.0) where the rails on the track are a bit bigger (than 100) and the wheel flange is a bit bigger, and the tolerances are a bit higher. Not a lot mind you.. you don't want the locos looking like a version of a hooptie with 22 inch spinners on them.. but enough to make the tolerances higher. All of this would be in the HO size range as I think that is a good size for modeling. 

in all seriousness though... I don't mind spending time on cars tweaking them to get things exactly right.. I just think they should work pretty good out of the box.. and to be fair most of my stuff has worked pretty well out of the box even the other Bachmann stuff.. which I still think is a pretty good deal for what you get.. just this one hopper is giving me fits. 

in my other hobby.. Car audio.. I once rented a car for two weeks so that I could take my own car's entire interior out so I could lay down some really awesome (and expensive) sound deadening.. then spent 3 days in it (in my spare time) with the windows rolled up playing pink noise so I can measure the results on a microphone and equalizer.. so I don't mind tweaking a bit.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

pat_smith1969 said:


> If I purchased a car, or a computer game, or anything else and it did not work until I spent hours messing with it... that item would not last long on the market. *Imagine if you purchased a Toyota and you couldn't actually drive it until you took it to the service station to have the wheels aligned, the engine tuned up, etc. *
> 
> I have purchased many Model Train items in the last couple months and with a huge amount of them you have to check gauges, file a little here, add a little there (turnouts, locos, cars). I understand that this is all part of the hobby and could be considered fun, it strikes me that in any other realm this simply would not be tolerated.


Perhaps you don't realize that the dealer has already done those things when they receive the car at the dealership, so the car is ready when the customer gets it. Automobiles are usually shipped without water and oil in them, so the dealer has to add those items to get the car ready for the customer. Computer games are usually spot checked in production, perhaps a few bad ones slip through, but a very high percentage are good. Model trains are the same way, they are produced to be within tolerance, but every car is not checked, it's just too costly, so the customer makes the final inspection and adjustment. Ready to Run, isn't, it just means that the item is completely assembled and ready for the final adjustment. I have a friend with a model railroad and he was plagued with derailments and false uncouplings when he ran trains. I offered to go over all his rolling stock and adjust it to within standards, he refused insisting that ready to run meant you could just put it on the track and go. He also said the washers used to raise couplers to the proper height, made the cars unstable, I had no answer for that one.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

pat_smith1969 said:


> Car audio.. I once rented a car for two weeks so that I could take my own car's entire interior out so I could lay down some really awesome (and expensive) sound deadening.. then spent 3 days in it (in my spare time) with the windows rolled up playing pink noise so I can measure the results on a microphone and equalizer.. so I don't mind tweaking a bit.


That sound deadening stuff is available at home depot sold as roof repair tape, just fyi. much cheaper.


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

The stuff I used was quite a bit different.. there is a whole science behind sound deadening. 

I used a layer of a vibration resistant material like this damplifier http://store.secondskinaudio.com/damplifier/. This layer stops sound as it vibrates through the sheet metal of the car. This won't stop sound waves from traveling through the sheet metal but it will stop it from using the sheet metal as an amplifier.

THen I went over that and did a complete layer of this mass loaded vinyl. The idea is that to truly stop sound waves you must have mass and a heavy vinyl is a good product for that. http://store.secondskinaudio.com/luxury-liner-pro-1-sheet-24x54-9sqft/

When I was done with installing the system I had a car that was close to 500 pounds heavier (with all the subs and amps).. I could play it as loud as I wanted and you could barely hear it outside the car.. and it was as close to tomb silent as you can get.

I had a nice build log of it on DIYMA (this was back in 2008) I went back to look for it but all the pics were taken down..If I recall I had them hosted by shutter fly or some such company.. I forget.


BTW... I have vowed to never do that again in my life... two weeks of back breaking work.. it sounded good when done but many my back still hurts from it. I am not that young anymore.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

pat_smith1969 said:


> The stuff I used was quite a bit different.. there is a whole science behind sound deadening.
> 
> I used a layer of a vibration resistant material like this damplifier http://store.secondskinaudio.com/damplifier/. This layer stops sound as it vibrates through the sheet metal of the car. This won't stop sound waves from traveling through the sheet metal but it will stop it from using the sheet metal as an amplifier.
> 
> ...


Its basically the same stuff.. i have used both and cannot tell a difference.


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## NAJ (Feb 19, 2016)

thedoc said:


> Perhaps you don't realize that the dealer has already done those things when they receive the car at the dealership, so the car is ready when the customer gets it. Automobiles are usually shipped without water and oil in them, so the dealer has to add those items to get the car ready for the customer.


Just a little clarification...
I was a Service Tech at a Jeep dealership for 15 years and the new vehicles do not ship without fluids, everything is full except for the washer bottle, it has Washer Solvent Concentrate already added in the washer bottle, we had to fill with water.
Since the new vehicles are driven on and off the trucks at the depots and dealerships no oil would create a major issue.
We did however have to perform a "New Vehicle Inspection" on every vehicle going over it top to bottom including a 5 mile road test to be sure nothing was missing everything was working, tight, secure and all fluids were full.
Flat rate techs got paid .9 hours for a new vehicle inspection.

Back to subject...
I run older/mass produced trains from the 70's (AHM, Tyco, Lifelike, Model Power, Bachmann) and I cannot use every piece of rolling stock I have.
It takes time for me to find the cars that are compatible with each other, that will not derail, tip over or uncouple, the ones that do become part of the "static" display and never see the mainline track.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Another factor to consider: even marginal cars will run better on bulletproof trackwork and lovingly tweaked turnouts than they will on a slapdash layout.

If I had one brand of rolling stock that consistently underperformed others, I would quit buying it. And if I have something that is just grossly out of whack, I'll return it. But the bottom line is, 5% of what I buy performs beautifully out of the box, 5% won't run at all, and the rest runs "fairly well" (a matter of opinion), and can be improved with tuning.


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I agree on the track work.. You have offered advice in other threads CTV and I have followed them as well as I can. I can now run my 40-2 around the track as many times as I wish with no derailments.. at nearly top speed (this is in a large part thanks to help from folks on this forum, thank you). So as far as that goes it is good..My other locos are not as finicky with the track (GP30). 

So I realize that is only half the battle however, the rolling stock COULD be more problematic that the heavy locos. I took all my rolling stock and hooked it up to my loco and ran it around the loop several times.. I noted which cars derailed and where (I only have 12 cars so it is not hard). If it derailed twice I would set it aside in an "inspect" pile... to which I would do things like check the truck stiffness (of the screw that holds it on - I found this to be a problem on a couple cars) check the gauge of the couplers and wheels..stuff like that.

After about an hour of running I had 5 cars that NEVER derailed and 6 cars that derailed twice during the 1 hour run.... 
And then I had this hopper.. which never made it around the track once before it had derailed twice. And I gave it several chances. 

I think I am going to take the trucks off one of my other Bachmann's (known good configuration) and place them on this hopper and see if I get better results. Basic troubleshooting. Also that will tell if new trucks are justified. 
As mentioned.. I have checked the gauge of the wheels and I know it is not the coupler after watching it derail. I really think that the truck is warped or mis-aligned or something. When rolling it with my finger along straight track it will sometimes just derail, the truck just turns sideways for no apparent reason. 

I have a ton of school work (FINALLY finishing my Bachelors at the age of 47) but maybe later this week I can get a video of it mis-behaving.


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## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Well.. after all that bellyaching I think I fixed the darned thing. 

I went to take the trucks off to put some test trucks on.. taking the trucks off revealed that under the truck was a plastic burr.. that burr was just enough to keep the truck from wanting to turn with the track.. but when moving the truck with my fingers you could not see for feel it. The burr was bumping up against the coupler housing.

Not believing my luck, I hooked up the troublesome car to the back of my "works great" train... ran it for around an hour while I was making a little diorama.. never derailed once... even when I bumped the speed from #2 to #3.5.. 2 is fairly slow and 3.5 is moving along pretty good but not at "ludicrous speed". I think the thing goes up to 6. 

I can now take this one out of my "bad boys" pile and leave it on my good train.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

pat_smith1969 said:


> Well.. after all that bellyaching I think I fixed the darned thing.
> 
> I went to take the trucks off to put some test trucks on.. taking the trucks off revealed that under the truck was a plastic burr.. that burr was just enough to keep the truck from wanting to turn with the track.. but when moving the truck with my fingers you could not see for feel it. The burr was bumping up against the coupler housing.
> 
> ...


Hooray!

Its almost always something stupidly small like that.

Glad you fixed it!


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## FOURTEEN (Feb 16, 2016)

Grats on getting it fixed.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Believe it or not, burrs and flashing are common problems, even on high end stuff. Glad you figured it out, and that it was such a cheap and easy fix!


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