# Hidden track



## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi
Need opinions on using flex or sectional track in a tunnel and under layout passage, where it will be difficult to make a repair once the upper level is added above it. 
Is it better to use say, Atlas 40" flex sections to minimize possible future electrical joint problems and repair or just go with curved or straight sectional trackage? Are less joints in the difficult to reach areas, the way to go? What do most of you do for this type of layout area.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Anything that you put in a hard to reach area will be subject to malfunction. The more you put there the greater the chance.
One piece of flex track = 1 problem. Two sections of track = 6 problems, (4 rails, 2 joiners). Ya wanna be sure to have problems, put a turnout in there and the problems grow exponentially.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have to agree with Ken, Murphy lurks in all inaccessible areas of a layout. 

For a "hard to reach" area, I'd solder all the track connections and forget about putting switches there.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

Is placing an aces panel blending in with scenery possible?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, by all means use flex track with very precise joints. If you have
a turnout make it a Peco Insulfrog, you won't have turnout caused
derails. If possible design the hidden track so that the turnouts are
near the entrances, you will fail to throw the points and thus you will
have derails, and you need an ability to recover what is off the rails.
As mentioned, you could consider some type of removable access panel.

And finally, be sure to test it completely after an inspection shows all
joints to be straight without kinks before building the mountain
or installing under whatever will cover it. 

To make certain you have no electrical issues, solder the joiners.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

SBRacing said:


> Is placing an aces panel blending in with scenery possible?


Well, it beats a kings panel, that's for sure.

An access panel is ALWAYS a good idea if you have areas of your layout that are difficult to reach, whether due to distance or scenery. They are fairly easy to conceal, especially if you use lots of underbrush or the reverse slopes of hills.

There are two major considerations: 1) make sure everything is well fastened down, and 2) make sure you have somewhere to put the panel when it is out, unless it is self-supporting (I saw one using drawer slides and shelf brackets that was really slick).


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Well, it looks like I've already saved one headache. No hidden turnouts were in my plan for the hidden trackage. As to a removable hatch, I'll need to look further into the plan to see where it can go. As far as soldering the rail joints, that's a great idea. My only concern with that is, my prior HO layout used flex and I soldered all the joints. In about 6 months they buckled up like a roller coaster rail. Don't know why. Maybe because it was in a basement and the track was layed on Homasote. Anyway, this new layout is O, and it has a substantially heavier track than HO. It's also in my Attic this time. No dampness up there.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Patrick1544 said:


> Well, it looks like I've already saved one headache. No hidden turnouts were in my plan for the hidden trackage. As to a removable hatch, I'll need to look further into the plan to see where it can go. As far as soldering the rail joints, that's a great idea. My only concern with that is, my prior HO layout used flex and I soldered all the joints. In about 6 months they buckled up like a roller coaster rail. Don't know why. Maybe because it was in a basement and the track was layed on Homasote. Anyway, this new layout is O, and it has a substantially heavier track than HO. It's also in my Attic this time. No dampness up there.


In the attic? Yeah, you'll have warping for a while. Ya need to tack your track down then just let it set for about a year. You'll have to do repairs where the roadbed expands and shrinks, but after about a year, it will settle down and the track problems will stop.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Contrary to popular belief, it isn't the soldered rail joints that cause track to warp. The lengths of metal and temperature ranges (humidity doesn't affect metal, except by corroding it) we're talking about don't change the length of your rails by more than a thousandth of an inch in several hundred feet of run.

Wood, and wood based products, which most of us use as a foundation of our layouts, is extremely susceptible to changes in humidity. Changes in temperature don't directly affect wood, but they have a huge effect on how much moisture that air can hold. A 4x8 sheet of plywood cna expand and contract as much as a half an inch, and untrated dimensional lumber is worse still. These changes can crush your layout very quickly. I have some chairs made by an Amish craftsman in central PA. He uses no glue, nails, or other fasteners. In the dead of winter, if it's really cold and dry, I can pull the backs off the chairs without effort!

There is an easy fix for this: no untreated lumber attached to the layout, unless your tain room is strictly climate controlled. You can'tcan't completely eliminate changes in the dimensionality of wood, but you can minimize them.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I took some measures to try and control the temperature in the attic. Its been insulated and new windows installed. I warm it up with a heater when I'm up there. I installed a large window AC for the Summer months. It has 14 foot peak and its a larger open room. The coldest its gotten is 45 on a 10 degree day. My exhaust fan cuts in at 75 in the Summer months.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When I solder track, I use a small jumper between the joints, so it's not truly a solid piece. That also minimizes the possibility of the joint cracking.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Patrick1544 said:


> I took some measures to try and control the temperature in the attic. Its been insulated and new windows installed. I warm it up with a heater when I'm up there. I installed a large window AC for the Summer months. It has 14 foot peak and its a larger open room. The coldest its gotten is 45 on a 10 degree day. My exhaust fan cuts in at 75 in the Summer months.


You will need to do better than that if you want to avoid expansion and contraction of your benchwork / roadbed. I'm talking climate controlled here: temp never varies by more than a few degrees, and humidity at a fixed level plus or minus 1-2% (which means you may need a humidier for cold months). This can be done, but it's time consuming and fiercely expensive.

No, I'm not saying not to use the attic. I'm saying don't underestimate environmental effects. Seal your wood (all sides) with paint, varnish, polyurethane, or something (common shellac is cheap and very effective), and allow some room for expansion / contraction as you build.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks for all the information.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I use hidden staging tracks all of the time. Absolutely I would recommend flex track because as mentioned before there are less joints in the track. I even have a drop down bridge for a walk in and I have had no problems with them being in use for over 25 years. 

The main thing is do do it right the first time. I don't have much of a temperature variation as my layout is in the basement. Low temp when the room isn't heated in the dead of winter with temps going below zero is probably no colder than perhaps 50 degrees and in the middle of summer with temps in the 90's, the train room rarely gets into the 70's.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks. I will use flex in the hidden areas.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Really nice layout Chet!


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