# DCC sounds fun, few questions though.



## NaughtyMonkey (Apr 22, 2013)

Is the DCC difficult. It actually seems easier to me then just straight DC. 

I been tossing around the idea of doing my layout with DCC, only doing a 4x8 with two separate main lines and some spur lines. Also it doesn't have a huge incline (one hill) so I won't need the double heading, but the more I read about DCC the better it sounds. Even though I'm doing a 4x8 would the DCC be worth it? 

Would something like this be good? E-Z Command DCC Controller System http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bac/bac44902.htm

I do plan to expand my 4x8 eventually so I'm trying to think of the future, all of my train locomotives are DC and almost all are Life-Like brand anyway. I know I can convert them but that sounds difficult. haha. I would rather get nicer locomotives anyway. 

Also I noticed that the DCC can be used on turnouts, I am running the HO code 100 Atlas track, would the track be hard to get to work with DCC?

- Thanks!

P.S. Was also looking for a DCC book to help, I found these, but not sure what is best? http://www.hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?cat_s=ZA&str_s=DCC


----------



## Prospect193 (Nov 30, 2011)

NIMT should be around shortly to help you no doubt!!


----------



## D1566 (Jun 8, 2012)

I made the change to DCC a few years back and can heartily recommend it, even for a small layout. Converting your existing locos to DCC should not be a big deal, I have successfully converted a few life like locos and still have some of my own hair left  the Bachmann controller is ok but you might be better going a bit more up market even when starting off. 
Good luck


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

DCC difficult?Yes and no,there's a learning curve to it but once you understand the basics,it is indeed fun.Electrically,DCC is simpler than DC...no need for complicated "block control" wiring and the extra switches and controls that go with it.It gets a little more complicated when you get to configure decoders,but then Decoder Pro (free download) comes to rescue and makes this a breeze.

A 4X8,dual main lines and running more than one train at a time...definitely DCC is for you.It's true that some locos (older ones) aren't easy retrofit but most if not all newer models come "DCC" ready,meaning that installing a decoder is a simple task.Even more,many can be purchased with DCC installed and even sound in many cases.

Planning on expanding in the future,then you're a good candidate for the Digitrax Zephyr Extra starter set...it has all the nice DCC features you may wish and is totally expandable.The Bachmann set will run your trains fine but is lacking some of the features that you may wish to have somewhere along the line.It costs more but is worthed every penny.

Yes,turnouts can be operated with the DCC controller with special decoders.It is a fun feature for some,others don't like it so much.But it has a cost and personally,I don't see it as a needed option on a 4X8 layout.

DCC will work with any brand of track.However,some turnout designs are known as not "DCC friendly",specially older ones but I don't think there's any problem with the newer ones.

You could invest in DCC litterature if you wish,but everything you need to know can be learned for free on the web (forums,etc).There are so many websites on the subject that you could be reading for days on end.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Everyone is giving you great advice.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## NaughtyMonkey (Apr 22, 2013)

I appreciate all of the replies. My old layout that I don't have anymore was complicated to wire, ran normal DC and had all the turnouts wired to push buttons and sections of track were on toggle switches, sound like the DCC is defiantly easier. 

So some DCC locomotives do not come with Decoders? 

This is the one your talking about right? http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-Zephyr-Xtra-Complete-DCC-Starter-System-w-p/dig-zepx.htm

Thanks again for all the help. I really do appreciate it.


----------



## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm a newbe at DCC. Some locos say "DCC Ready" That means they are ready to install DCC but it is not installed. To me the sound is the neat part. DCC with sound is more expensive.
When you get DCC the main advantage over DC (IMO) is that you can run more than one train on the same track and if equipped you can blow the horn, ring the bell, etc.
If DCC with sound the locos make startup and shutdown sounds similar to a real loco. 
The only negative i have found is that the sound (at least in my locos) is not very load. Probably because of the small amount of room for a speaker and the limited amount of power available in many systems. all IMO; Don


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

DCC is less complicated as far as wiring is concerned...you don't need all the polarity controlling switches you're talking about along with much less wiring.So when someone says DCC is more expensive,it's true on the surface but when you figure the costs of all the extra hardware needed for DC,the price margin is much less.

However,you'll need a decoder for each one of the locos and there quite a wide range there...some standard basic decoders can be purchased by ten packs under $20. each up to the sound decoders that can go over $100. each.for good quality ones...yes,there are cheapies out there that are only that...cheap stuff.Ask the guys here before you buy....

There are still plenty of locos that come without a decoder for the DC guys,but then you can have a loco with a decoder and even some are available with sound.However,for a few years now,most locos that don't have a decoder are still ready for it,meaning a few minutes install...plug&play types.Normally,their boxes say "DCC friendly" or "DCC ready" or something like this.
Locos with DCC will say "DCC equipped" or "DCC on-board" or such and the ones with sound generally clearly say "DCC and Sound" or "Sound decoder equipped"...My personal opinion is one is better buy a non equipped loco and then install a decoder of his choice...some OEM decoders are bulk purchased decoders that lack features one will find in an after market one.

And yes,this is the system I was talking about.


----------



## NaughtyMonkey (Apr 22, 2013)

Where is the best place to view DCC locomotives and Decoders?

I think I will go with the DCC as it sounds more fun and can have way more control over conventional DC. 

Was searching on google but not sure where the best place would be.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Southern 2 cents.
I to switched to DCC No looking back. Yes there is a some learning but it is well worth it. I do have some locos that will never become DCC so I have a DTDP switch so that I can run the DC locos. 



NaughtyMonkey said:


> Where is the best place to view DCC locomotives and Decoders?


Just Google figure what you like and then go to North Idaho Model Trains website.



NaughtyMonkey said:


> I think I will go with the DCC as it sounds more fun and can have way more control over conventional DC.


This one will save you nine bucks http://www.yankeedabbler.com/.sc/ms...603/Digitrax-ZEP-ZEPX Zephyr Xtra Starter Set


----------



## NaughtyMonkey (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks for the tips. So you can go from DCC to DC by a switch, that's cool. I was going to ask that, I think that was the question I kept forgetting to ask. 

Also the Digitrax Zephyr Extra starter set won't work with the Decoder Pro program will it? From reading the Decoder Pro Program's website, I don't see it on the list of hardware. 

Watched a few videos on youtube of people using that program and it seems really awesome and I think it will add more fun to this hobby!

Also I can run a double header, even though I don't need to, Just to have fun setting them up to run together. Is it difficult. I would think not especially if you can use that Decoder Pro program.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

NaughtyMonkey said:


> Also the Digitrax Zephyr Extra starter set won't work with the Decoder Pro program will it? From reading the Decoder Pro Program's website, I don't see it on the list of hardware.


Yes you can use it. You will need to add a PR3 from Digitrax.











NaughtyMonkey said:


> Also I can run a double header, even though I don't need to, Just to have fun setting them up to run together. Is it difficult. I would think not especially if you can use that Decoder Pro program.


It is very easy if the decoders and locos are the same. Even if they are different it can still be done just more work.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

NaughtyMonkey said:


> Thanks for the tips. So you can go from DCC to DC by a switch, that's cool. I was going to ask that, I think that was the question I kept forgetting to ask.


You will still need to do a little extra wiring. It is very important that both DCC and DC systems are not ever hooked to the track at the same time. Also all of the DC locos will need to be off of the layout when using DCC.


----------



## NaughtyMonkey (Apr 22, 2013)

Ok so I can connect the PR3 from Digitrax to the Digitrax Zephyr Extra starter set. That's cool and thanks again. 

Yes that makes sense about not having the DC trains on the track with DCC since the current is the same I would imagine they would run at full speed with no way to slow them down, run away train! haha. 

By the way Southern, I also stop and watch trains go by. haha.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

NaughtyMonkey,
If you leave DC locomotive and DCC engines on the tracks they will not move at all, but they will burn up.
The DCC voltage and digital signal is a modified AC square wave and the motors on the DC engines and Locos will just hum.
There is a way to run one DC loco or engine on a DCC system, it's called zero stretching and is done buy running it on address 00. It will still hum but it will move.


----------



## NaughtyMonkey (Apr 22, 2013)

Really? Wow I figured the opposite. Well I have a bunch of (I mean alot!) of Life-Like Power-Loc track. Most likely just let the kids play with that and the Life-Like locomotives and train cars, etc. And just get a DCC system for my 4x8 layout. 

Thanks for clarifying that though.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Good call on the life likes!

Look at the slightly higher end Loco's for the DCC running.

You can always shoot me a note if you need to know if a particular engine is DCC ready, equipped or friendly, I usually know.

I also sell Soundtraxx decoders for a really good price and they are top of the line too!


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

NaughtyMonkey said:


> Ok so I can connect the PR3 from Digitrax to the Digitrax Zephyr Extra starter set. That's cool and thanks again.
> 
> Yes that makes sense about not having the DC trains on the track with DCC since the current is the same I would imagine they would run at full speed with no way to slow them down, run away train! haha.
> 
> By the way Southern, I also stop and watch trains go by. haha.


That's not exactly what Southern said...
First,the Digitrax Zephyr Extra is totally capable of programming decoders without adding any hardware whatsoever.It has a programming track for that purpose.However,some decoders still will not program on the prog. track's power and need to be programmed on the main using a feature called "blast mode".The system's instruction explain how to do this.

The PR3 is Digitrax's answer to people who want to use a computer to program decoders.What it does is link the computer to a programming track that's totally independent from the Zephyr's prog.track (not to confuse).With this device,then you can use Decoder Pro and all its great features.

However,the PR3 has a Loconet connection to link it to the Zephyr because it will also allow you to operate a train through a computer with the right software.This connection is not required for programming.

The exception to the rule,like always,are sound decoders.Most do require more current for both running and programming and some can't respond to the weak output of EITHER the Zephyr or the PR3.You then need another device to connect to EITHER NOT BOTH before the programming track.It's called a "programming track booster" wich actually boosts the power of the signal to the decoder for programming.Soundtraxx's PTB-100 works great at this.

To put it simple,two programming methods:
Command station alone for regular decoders,add booster for sound decoders.
Computer+PR3 for regular decoders,add booster for sound decoders.

By the way,Sean (NIMT) can supply you with all this I believe.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

You can use the PR3 and PC to "control" the Zephyr and the programming outputs on the zephyr. It's just a different setup of JMRI and the PR3.
I have mine set up this way, it works great.
You will need a programing track booster if you have any sound locos, otherwise you can write but not read the decoders CV's.


----------



## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

When dealing with the question going DCC, there are a couple really big points for me. I had DCC before I moved and sold it all. It was great and it totally makes operations so much better. It does take more effort or shopping (money?) to get DCC locos but then the big payback is in the running. I like quality engines over all else. Adding DCC just makes them better. With DCC, you can do and actually helper engine as you are controlling each engine separately. It can't be done realistically in DC as you are only changing the track rather than the engine. 

But be prepared to pay pretty dearly for the pleasure! I now run DC on my small layout because I don't want to invest the money for a DCC system.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

*I want to clear something up. Do not have DC and DCC hooked up at the same time.*

I have a switch so that the layout is ether one or the other. never both.

*DCC locos will not be hurt by being on DC*
*DC locos will burn out if left sitting still on DCC.*

Before I switch out the layout, I remove all the locos.


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

NIMT said:


> You can use the PR3 and PC to "control" the Zephyr and the programming outputs on the zephyr. It's just a different setup of JMRI and the PR3.
> I have mine set up this way, it works great.
> You will need a programing track booster if you have any sound locos, otherwise you can write but not read the decoders CV's.


Oooops...I didn't mean to mislead...just haven't tried this setup.I have a DCS200 to run the layout and a PR3/PTB100 setup to program decoders and both setups are in different rooms.Using Loconet to link both simply isn't practical for me and what I have works very well.One drawback though,I can't program decoders on the layout with Decoder Pro,I need a separate piece of track.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Jake I have the excat same equipment that you do. I have it set up so that the JMRI / PR3 will run the layout and the program track. My program track is one of the yard tracks. I have to flip a DPDT switch to select regular power or progarming.


----------



## NaughtyMonkey (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies!  

It's starting to sound a little more confusing but not to bad. haha. I know I will learn eventually. 

I don't want to run the loco's from the computer. Even though that does sound kinda cool. Just wanted to be able to change the sound files or change the volume on them if I wanted too. Play around with Double heading different loco's, etc. 

NIMT,

When I get the table built and I'm ready to buy the DCC I will send you a PM or email about what I need / should get.


----------



## musicwerks (Jan 4, 2012)

I ran DC for many years since I started train Modelling in 1990s. Switched to dcc recently, didnt regret it!

DDC sound is addictive I must say...

Kiong


----------



## cam0527 (May 23, 2013)

*Switch for DC to DCC and vice versa*



Southern said:


> *I want to clear something up. Do not have DC and DCC hooked up at the same time.*
> 
> I have a switch so that the layout is ether one or the other. never both.
> 
> ...


Hello, I've been reading up on DCC and am about to take the plunge. Found this thread to be very helpful. Am curious - what is this switch for going back and forth between DCC and DC? Something standard that I can buy?


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Any DPDT switch with some electrical capacity (5 amps and up) will do just fine.DC to one end then DCC to the other end and middle posts (common) to the layout.That simple.You can find these at any good electronic supply store and/or auto parts suppliers.

In theory,this will work and does on simple layouts.However,I have a question of my own...what happens if you push DC current to layouts that have special DCC electronics like AR1's,PM42's,stationary decoders and other devices that operate from the track's DCC current?Mobile decoders won't be harmed by DC,but these.....?

Many have warned that having both power modes to the same layout is like "an accident bound to happen" and I tend to agree.Unless you know what you're doing very well,better stay away from this.


----------



## waltr (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree, if something can go wrong it will.

As to the DPDT switch, it is a very good idea to ensure that the switch "Breaks before Makes" so that the two power systems never get connected together.
Of course if you take precautions like ensuring both power systems are off before switching then you should be safe. However, one forgetful moment and something could smoke.


----------



## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

When I started in DCC, this was a question for me as well. What I found was that the complications of running both were just not worth the effort for me. Once using DCC, it was so much better that wiring and maintaining a second system was just out of the question. Something like having a new washer for clothes but still keeping a wringer washer running. Is it really worth the effort once you've used the new one. Some will have a special situation that makes it worthwhile but many just stop using the DC. Once you operate a train through a fully DCC reverse loop and compare it to a standard DC reverse loop, you see what I mean.


----------

