# Looking for some Advice - Another new guy



## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

I’m new to the model train world but have been doing quite a bit of reading over the past two months. I'm in my mid-30's and have always been fascinated by trains and I now have a two year old who can't stop watching them on youtube. One things for sure, when someone asks a question you get a lot of responses so I’m going to try to not ask a lot of the “what’s best” questions but more of here’s what I’m thinking please let me know if I’m on the right track.

Background

I have a small space to work with and I’ve been going back and forth on whether or not I should be looking at HO or N scale to build out my layout. I would like to stick to HO as I’d love to expand in the future years, specially once we move to a different house where I will have more room. The space I have to work with is 2ft in width and up to 18ft in length. It’s pretty much on top of a built in with shelves so my layout will have to be more of a dog bone if you will. Imagine something like this -> http://www.thortrains.net/4holayf.html but flipped.

Questions 

-	With the space I have (2ft in width) can I get away with doing this type of layout taking the turns into consideration. I’ve read that you need a minimum of 18” curves in HO scale. 

-	I would like to run a passenger train and a freight (looking for Amtrak and CSX locomotives, etc.) since I’m in the Maryland area. I’d also like to have an old school steam loco that could switch box cars in my mini yard. What would the recommended length be to get something like this accomplished from your experiences? Remember I’m new so I’d like to keep it as simple as possible so I can learn and then expand but I also don’t want to make so simple I’ll get tired of it. 

-	For operations I’d like to let them run in circles or do some switching. Circles for when my 2-year-old is around and wants to watch and switching when it’s time for dad to enjoy it.
-	Track / scenery -> I think I’ve watched countless hours of YouTube videos but I keep finding more. My primary goal is to get my layout figured out and any electrical that needs to be done (more questions about that later) and then deal with scenery in spaces I have left. For track everything I’ve read leads me to believe I should go with Atlas code 83 as I can easily expand. Any thoughts? 

-	In regards to tracks and a loco should I get a starter kit or get what I want? 

-	I’ve seen different services advertised that will help design a layout etc., does anyone have any experience with them and if so do you have recommendations? I have a ton of likes and wants but I’m willing to pay a few hundred bucks up front to someone to help me plan out this whole thing before I jump in. I don’t mind making mistakes but I need beginner guidance and a list of things I’m going to need to get.

-	DC vs. DCC -> I think I’ve read enough to confuse myself here. It seems like to run the newer trains with sound / lights / etc. I need to go DCC but I have also seen where I could run DC. At the same time if I want to run multiple trains I need DCC. Maybe there a link I have not hit yet that lays this out for us simpletons but it seems like DCC is really the way you should go if you are trying to control multiple locomotives (have one running, take a second and put box cards together for another to pickup / etc.)

I think i'm ready to be told i'm not ready to this but i'm looking forward to any advice anyone can throw my way. Remember I have ZERO hands on experience with model trains. My modeling stopped at making hundreds of old school model planes and tanks, etc.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

You have two tough parameters to deal with that you'll have to decide first.If you want your two year old to handle them,then N scale is out unless you stick with low cost engines that you won't be too sorry if they get mishandled,wich is likely.

Then the space you specify won't allow any circle in HO.You need an 18" radius curve as a minimum wich means a forty inch wide bench,and that's running close to the edge.And even then,you'd be limited to four axle diesels and the smaller steamers.However,you could have a nice linear switching layout in this space.

Sorry for being negative...I've had the same dilemma...wishes against possibles....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Hello and welcome!

First of all, you are very wise to avoid the "what's best" questions.... but then you went off the rails when you asked if you're on the right track (sorry for the bad humor... brain tired). If it works for you, then it's fine. No one else can tell you what to do, and there is NEVER one right answer, except to purely technical questions.

So lets try to get your thoughts organized. In ANY scale, broader curves are better, but we are all limited by space to some extent. In HO, 18" is about the minimum you can get away with. Many products are designed for them, but longer equipment (6 axle diesels, steamers with 4 or more pairs of drivers, cars longer than about 50 scale feet) has trouble handling it. That said, an 18" radius curve means you need 40" to turn around (37" for the curve itself, because the radius measures to the track centerline; plus some cushion at the edges of the layout), so that kind of breaks your 2' space right there. You can, however, do 2' in the center with larger lobes at each end. Use as much space as you have available.

N will get you more bang for the buck spacewise, but it may be too small for your little one to appreciate / handle.

Interest-wise, you are quite right: you will soon tire of the "roundy roundy", even if your 2 yr old (and your cat) can watch it endlessly. The second of the two layouts on the page you linked to provides some sidings which can be used for switching, and should keep you interested.

Be careful of the bowl of spaghetti effect in your trackwork. Plan scenery and structures in conjunction with track. If you try to shoehorn them in later, you'll have trouble getting anything to look remotely realistic. Maybe that's ok, though. Atlas code 83 is certainly serviceable track, and will handle many common track layouts. Flextrack is, by it's nature, more, well, flexible, then the sectional stuff. You will also probably want better turnouts than Atlas makes, at least eventually.

As far as starter kits, if you don't care about a crappy power pack and running a mishmash of equipment which doesn't fit a unified theme, by all means start there. If you want something that hangs together more prototypically, buy piecemeal.

Design Services can be very good resources. I'm personally acquainted with the owner of LayoutVision, and he's terrific at what he does (and a great guy too), but they're all pricey. Be prepared to spend in the low to mid-four figure range for a fairly basic design. With all due respect to those professionals, you can purchase and awful lot of layout material and trains for that kind of money. There are software programs, both free and paid, that can help you with the design process.

DC vs. DCC is still a heated argument. Personally, I'd advise you to just hop into DCC, but there are a lot of folks here who would disagree. It is, however, far simpler to wire a layout where you can run multiple locos simultaneously in DCC.

So, you see, I haven't really answered any of your questions. It depends on you. Since you're not afraid of making mistakes, and especially if your budget isn't very limited, I would advise you to just hop in and learn as you go. Best way; and the way most of us old-timers learned.


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

For your setup, I would recommend a trolley or commuter train setup. Both go both ways without turning around, they just reverse. There are lots of different trolleys out there, and you could have fun making stations, tunnels, even overpasses and bridges. Your son could sit at a good spot and run them back and forth. Have a section of dead track at each end until he gets good at stopping and reversing.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Regarding your space -- 18" radius means you need at least 36" to complete a full turn (radius is 1/2 of diameter). And yes, this really is the minimum you want to go unless you are running a small trolley. If you have room on the ends of your shelving to expand out to 42-48 inches wide (with 48" you could add a second mainline and have two trains running in circles), then you could do the dogbone and still keep the narrow shelf for most of the length. The dogbone style also allows room to lay out a nice switching yard along the narrow shelf space and let you have some hands-on space while a mainline runs circles for your kid. Of course you can do much smaller curves with N-scale track, however keep in mind that soon your child will want to help out, and larger scales are easier for young hands to work with (especially in getting the wheels of a car back on the track). Also a larger scale will be easier for dad when trying to repair a broken engine. 

The code-83 track seems to be really popular -- it looks good and I think every supplier has track in that size now. You probably wouldn't go smaller unless you were modeling some really old steam engines. Starter kits are good to get you going, and it doesn't sound like you're too worried about high detail at this point. Pre-made track sections are very easy to work with through the curves, and you could add flex track to get the length needed for the shelf.

DC vs DCC -- With DC you have to break up your track into smaller electrically-isolated sections in order to run multiple locos at once. With DCC you have full power to the track at all times, and each loco responds only to its own controller no matter where it is at on the track. DCC is definitely easier to run, especially since you will likely not have an reverse-loops, but DC is much cheaper to get started with. If you plan on expanding in the future, I would suggest that you jump right in to the DCC setups so that you don't have to re-wire the entire layout and all of your engines at a later date.

Model trains in general are pretty simple. Don't let all the talk of DCC and reverse-loops and everything else scare you away. Start with your basic dogbone and a simple switching yard, and you will come to understand how it works pretty quickly. And there's a great community here that will always be willing to break things down and help you understand anything you're struggling with.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Let me be the first to welcome you to the board and the hobby. Once you start there is no turning back.

Now to your questions.

You cannot make a "circle" in only 2 feet of width. It takes at least 4 feet. 18" curves are 18" radius. So a half turn is 3 feet wide minimum and you always want some space room in case of derailment. With 2 feet of width I'm afraid you are stuck with a switching layout.

I would recommend code 100 track. It is more readily available. The only difference is the height and being a newbie I don't think you will be offended by it not being truly prototypical. Many will recommend using flex track. As a newbie I would recommend sectional track. With flex track you need to get into cutting it to length. On curves this involves cutting the rails 2 different lengths(inside and outside rails). I use sectional track on my 4 x 8 and have no issues. New track will be nickel silver. If you buy used track, make sure it is nickel silver.

DC vs DCC. DCC makes it much easier to control multiple locomotives and much simpler wiring. With DCC you just power the track with terminal tracks every so often. On my 4 x 8 loop I have 3 connections per oval and 2 to my spur. You control the locomotives individually. With DC if you want to have multiple trains, you need to wire your track in blocks which means using insulated joiners and control switches to control power to a block. Requires much more planning.

DCC is a bit more expensive. The NCE Power Cab and DIGITRAX Zephyr are all in one DCC starter sets for about $150. THese include the power and controller to run a DCC layout. Both have enough power to run several sound locomotives. Bachmann makes some good lower end DCC locomotives. I believe they are now also making them with sound. Take a look at Walters as well. For DCC sets, Bachmann has the most variety, Walters and Athean each have a few. Bachman has DCC sets that comes with the most basic of DCC controllers.

For rolling stock look for used. However, if you want new, the Bachmann Silver series and Atlas Trainman are excellent low cost options.

Here are 2 online resources that have excellent prices and service:

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/
http://www.trainworld.com/


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Getting started*

Brob21k;

Welcome to the forum and the hobby! You asked if you are ready. The answer, since you have money to spend(on track planing) is yes! You are ready! 
More seriously, I would recommend against two of the things you proposed, since you may
not need them. The first would be that custom track plan. That's not evil or anything; but at this stage, I don't think it's needed, and those services can be quite expensive. I know, you said you have the money, but none of us have an infinite supply,(unless you happen to be a tax funded operation, like the US government!)  The rest of us need to put our money to the most productive hobby use we can. Since you have a small space and therefore limited options, I think you might hold off on the custom track planning, and use the money to buy train products. 
If you go with HO scale, then yes on the Atlas code 83 track.(If you chose N scale then code 55) I would suggest flex track.
However be aware that the curved lobes at each end of the "dog bone" shown are going to eat up a lot of space. Any scale you like is good, none bad. One real difference is how much space it takes to turn around.
In HO scale, many layout plans use 18" radius curves. They are OK for small equipment, although the trains will look, and run better on wider curves.(22" and up for HO). Six wheel diesel trucks, longer cars and many steam locomotives, may derail on 18" curves. 
In N scale, you could use the equivalent tight radius of 9-3/4" curves therefore saving shelf width. The other, and in my opinion, better option would be to use the same 18" radius curves, if you have the room. In N scale these have "magically changed" to broad radius curves that can handle even the longest passenger cars and locomotives; and make the train look better on a more realistic sized curve.
Should you start by buying a train set? No. You can do so if you wish, of course, but they are usually a poor bargain. The power pack, loco, and cars in such sets are usually of poor quality. The circle of track included is inevitably the tightest radius sectional track available. In short, you will likely end up replacing just about everything in the set, so why buy it in the first place? You can get better quality stuff, that you will be more likely to keep, by purchasing individual pieces.
Should you go with DCC? YES! The minute dad want's to do more than run around in a circle, he will come up against the need for more complicated wiring. If you want to run more than one loco at a time, or have sound, or the smoothest operation available, then start with DCC.
Instead of paying a lot for a custom track plan buy, or borrow, from the public library, a few good books. Check the publisher's site www.kalmbach.com and see the variety of "how to books" available. I recommend starting with "102 Track Plans", and "Beginner's guide to N Scale Model Railroading." Don't worry about the "N scale" part of the second book's title.
It is an excellent,comprehensive, "first" book, for modeling in any scale. Nearly all the info in it can be used in whatever scale you choose.

Again welcome. :smilie_daumenpos:

Traction Fan


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I note that the two track plans that you have posted have
expanded ends to accomodate the dogbone loop ends of the layout.

Is that not possible in your available space? They should ideally
be around 4 foot wide but then could narrow down to your 2 foot 
running length. 

If that is not possible, look again at Mikek's suggestion of running
a commuter type railroad for the time being. Those trains don't
need a loop to go back to where they came from as you no doubt
notice on the trains running in your area. You could even have
the yard and spur track that could provide nice switching using
a small steamer. You just don't have the space to make a
continuous running layout without those expanded ends.

Don


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

First off thanks to everyone who has replied. 

In regards to the layout… 

The main take away I have right off the bat is for any type of freight I have to go with an 18” radius so I need to have at least 36” in width for a turn. If I want to do a passenger train I’m looking at 22” so 44” in width. Pretty much to do any turn in HO scale I can’t do it with the 2ft that I have. This means that to keep the kid happy and mommy so he’s not bugging her (see where I’m going with this) I really should look into adding a bench at the end of the shelving against the sliding glass door. 

If I built a 4x3 bench that was placed against the existing shelving that’s 2x18 I would have one end that would be 4x5 which would give me enough space to run a freight or passenger in circles if I wanted. I could transition the freight out of the loop to the shelf where I can build out the yard / switch. For what it’s worth I could do the same with the passenger train but it would not be able to loop back. It would come to a stop and then return. 

Software to design layout… 

I’ve been messing around with SCARM a bit over the past few weeks but it’s hard to get a hang of. You guys will probably laugh but one of the things I’m going to have to stop doing is converting mm to inches. I’ve seen several other programs mentioned in different threads and was wondering what you guys would recommend for a beginner to use? 

DCC… 

From the responses and everything I’ve read it’s pretty much 100% I’m going to go with it right away. I just need to figure out how it all works but there is time for that. 

Dealing with the kid…

A few people commented about the kid handling the trains… the goal is for the kid not to handle the trains. The hope is he will play with his trains while I play with mine. With that said, I’d love to be able to tell him to push a button and a train moves but he’s way to young to do anything else. At the moment his trains, cars, etc. all fly. 

My next steps… 

I really need to figure out exactly how much space I have and come up with a concept. My main issue has been putting what’s in my head and the ideas on the computer. The sad part is I work in the technology world but some of these model train software products have a decent learning curve. Taking what I can sketch out (simple sketch) and stick it on the computer in the proper scale is what I really need to do.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

SCRAM is pretty easy to use if you read all the help sections.
You can use all inches in SCRAM, it's in the tools section.

What I did was use all Atlas sectional track in my plan to get an idea of what I wanted. It may not come out perfect but close enough to get ideas.
Using flex in SCRAM can be challenging. Once you get something you think will work you can try the flex track to tie things together. 

You can also use Pico turnouts, for example, by selecting them and switching between the two 

You can build with flex track when the time comes.

You need at least 38 to 40 inches of bench work for 18" radius turns, 18" is to the center of the track 
another two inches to the outside of the track and some more so you're not too close to the edge. 40" at least. 

Magic


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There really is nothing complicated about DCC. If you can use
a typical TV remote control, you can run 2 or more DCC trains
at the same time.

Basicly, each loco has a 2 to 4 digit 'address'. You punch a button
on the controller for that address. The loco then responds to
your direction and speed commands, just like changing channels
or volume on a TV.

The track is continuously powered with about 14 volts of modified
AC so loco and car lights stay bright, they don't dim or go out
when you slow or stop a train.

There are 2 wires from the Controller to the track. On a layout
such as you are considering you would run a buss that powers
drops from the rails every 6 or 7 feet around the layout.
This ensures a dependable current throughout the layout.
That is all there is to it.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DavefromMD said:


> Let me be the first to welcome you to the board and the hobby.


So what am I, chopped liver?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Everyone is going to have their own opinions on software. My personal favorite is AnyRail, which is not free, but I find it has the lowest learning curve, primarily because it is not burdened with all the 3D CAD embellishments. It also has an enormous (I would say the biggest) library of track pieces and structures (including user-developed content).

At the very least, use the low-tech approach and sketch your room on graph paper, marking all the immovable objects (windows, doors, posts, etc.). Then make several copies so that you can prepare several alternatives.

There are a number of ways that you can make a folding layout, or part of it that will fold up or in. It's a little more complicated, but not really that hard. This may help with your space concerns. If you think, "Can I make a bench / rollaway / foldout, etc." the answer is most emphatically yes. So let your creativity go a bit and see what you come up with. Once you decide on an approach, there are plenty of folks here who can give you specific how-to guidance.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Hey CTValley. No you're not chopped liver. I was the first to START replying but not the first to FINISH replying. There were 3 other replies by the time I submitted.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

The software I use is called XTrackCAD. Completely free and open-source, it runs under multiple operating systems. You can do a lot with it, but it has a sharp initial learning curve. The biggest thing for me was figuring out when I was supposed to hold down the shift key in combination with mouse clicks. They do have a great beginner's guide online though that walks you through the basics of working with sectional track and laying down flex track. Once you get through that , the rest is pretty simple.


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

Again you guys are great. I guess my fear of SCRAM was more due to the fact that I did not really understand how to do what. I've watched the tutorials on youtube which are fantastic but I'm looking for a cheat sheet if you will that will say if you want a 18" radius you need 6 of this model track / etc. I've done some searching but I have not found something like that for Atlas. Does anyone have any resources that would be helpful? 

I'll check out some of the other software programs also. 

In regards to DCC i think I scared myself looking at some of the more complex layouts with all the switching and turns and wiring. I'll keep reading and figuring it out.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

For Atlas snap track there are 3 radii of turns available - 15, 18, 22. 15s and 18s take 6 to make a half circle, 22s take 8 to make a half circle. Don't use 15s on any running circuit or if you are running steam. With 18s on a 4 foot wide board you can put a 9" straight in the middle and it will leave you about an inch on each side. You can go with a smaller straight (6" or 3") and have a bit more room. With 22s on a 4 foot wide board you will have about 1 inch on each side.

Straight track comes in 9", 6", and 3". There is also a pack of short track sections that you can get that provides 2 each of 3/4", 1". 1.25", 1.5", 2", 2.5" straight sections that you can use to get the odd fit if need be.

Atlas snap switches are OK but you need to be aware that the turnout part is curved and is the equivalent of 2/3 of an 18" curve section. SCARM has these in the Atlas track selection. They come with a 1/3 18" curve section to make a complete 18" curve section. They come manual and remote control. The remote control come with the motors attached as well as a switch to control it and the necessary wires. You need AC power to control them, so if you run DCC you will need a small transformer for the AC power. Other switches that come recommended are Peco. They do not come with any motors which must be purchased separately and mounted separately. The turnout on the Peco switches is straight. 

One thing to note about Atlas snap switches if you are using SCARM to map a layout. There are 2 versions of Atlas Snap switches. On one the turnout is 2/3 of an 18" curve, on another the turnout is 1/2 of an 18" curve. The vast majority are 2/3 of a curve. Make sure you use the correct one in SCARM.


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks Dave. The info is very helpful. It looks like you live right around where I do so here's the next question for you. I know there are a few shops around here (around meaning within an hour), which ones would you recommend from a friendly / knowledgable standpoint? 

I was thinking about driving up to the Train Depot in Mt. Airy or Moose Caboose up in Sykesville to take a look around.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Hey, we live within an hour of a train hobbyist's gold mine - M B Klien. Its up in Cockeysville.
Warren Road exit off i83. Left at the light onto Beaver Dam Rd. Its a about 1/4 mile up the road at the corner of Beaver Dam and Cockeysville Rd, on the right as your turn right onto Cockeysville Rd.

It's both an online and retail store. Best prices you'll find. Lots of knowledgeable folks there.
Here's the link: http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

Dave, I plan on checking out MB Klien on Monday. Meetings in D.C. in the morning and hopefully get up there by 2pm to browse around. Until then I'm having some issues with SCARM or I should say I'm having issues due to my own lack of knowledge. I'm trying to lookup resources on how to properly build a yard and properly connect it within my layout. Any good resources with examples that point out track types, etc. ?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

brob2k1 said:


> Dave, I plan on checking out MB Klien on Monday. Meetings in D.C. in the morning and hopefully get up there by 2pm to browse around. Until then I'm having some issues with SCARM or I should say I'm having issues due to my own lack of knowledge. I'm trying to lookup resources on how to properly build a yard and properly connect it within my layout. Any good resources with examples that point out track types, etc. ?


Leave your wallet at home, or be prepared to come out of there with a second mortgage! 

The best reference I have found is John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operations". It is out of print, but you may find it available used, or at your local library.


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

I had created the yard, using SCARM. You can see the yard showing below.










They are all Atlas HO track in Code 100.


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

bluenavigator said:


> I had created the yard, using SCARM. You can see the yard showing below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice layout.

Do you have the SCARM file that goes a long with this so I can figure out which tracks you actually used?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Am I reading your posts right, you're planning to use sectional
track on a layout this large? I hope not. Every joint is a potential
electrical problem. Not only that, it would seem quite a bit
more expensive than using flex track.

That is a good continuous running layout, but you sure are
lacking in industrial spurs for switching operations. There seems
to be plenty of room for them and it looks that it would
be easy to add them to what you have.

Don


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

Yes, I have the file. How can I create one like this in first place? :laugh:

The layout design is not final yet. There are more changes after this design.


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

A few weeks have passed, a few more thoughts and zero money spent so far  

I'm still trying to get my head around everything before jumping in and throwing money at this. The more I look at this it seems like the right thing for me to do is really build the top base of my benchwork for everything including the top of the shelf it would be sitting on. The primary reason for this I need the space for (1) wiring (2) switches. It seems like I can get away with having my top base be around 2 inches. 

With that said, how do most people here handle switching? I've been reading about switching and watching some video's and I'm not really 100% on how I can make the track switch. I know you can have the motors or even use decoders so it can be triggered from a DCC command station but starting at the basic level of a toggle switch to using a command station what would you guys recommend or what are you using?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There are several ways to throw the points on a turnout:

A. Twin Coil solenoids activated by momentary push buttons
using either AC or DC power. Requires 3 wires to each.
Least costly.

B. Tortoise stall motors that slowly and realisticly throw the
points using DC thru DPDT switches that can also control
panel and track side signals. They use DC power.
Requires 2 wires to each. Costs slightly more than A.

C. DCC stationary decoders activated by the DCC controller.
They usually draw current from the DCC track. Each is
wired to the track circuits. Requires decoder and either
A or B. Most expensive.

D. Ground Throws, manually thrown. Look similar to real
ground throws seen on some lightly used real spur tracks.
Inexpensive.

E. Simply flick the points with your fingers. Free.

F. In yards with a number of tracks, a Diode matrix makes switching
easy. This uses A. twin coil motors and a single push button in each
yard track. When you push that, all turnouts in the path to the main
throw giving a clear path. This sounds complex, but it is quite
simple, inexpensive and easy to use. Uses DC current through a
Capacitor discharge Unit that also protects twin coil motors from
accidental burnout from too long a button push. Just barely more
than A.

A & B are probably the most popular. Some of us feel that using
the C., DCC controller to throw your points puts too much
action on the controller and leads to confusion. Some prefer then and
integrate them in a computer controlled layout.

D. These are quite popular and some times are used exclusively
on a layout but in many cases used on less used tracks while one of the
other systems is used where there is more traffic.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Don left out one option, or at least a variant of B. This is to use miniature servomotors, the kind originally designed for RC aircraft. Individually, these are much cheaper than Tortoise motors, but by the time you add controllers, the price is comparable.

I am partial to products from Tam Valley Depot (www.tamvalleydepot.com). I use 5 of his Octo III controllers to run 35 micro switch machines. I operate them with TVD bicolor LED fascia controllers wired to a dispatcher-type panel.


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm using servos in the thread 'Home Made Grade Crossings', still trying to locate a small control board that will activate and *slow down* the servo.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

TVD servos operate slowly. About the same as Tortoises. They may have something that will help. Or you could try ising a kind of reduction gearing arrangement.


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

I've contacted Tony Williams from the UK who makes nice crossing controllers. Currently his are for UK or Euro tracks, which blink a yellow before the red, we don't do that. Otherwise his controllers are very good, control servos from Phototransistors or other switches. His unit also controls the lights and bell, I'm seeing if it can control a whistle recording, too. 
Other crossing controls are more expensive and larger. I have one of his, and it works fine. I just want to eliminate the yellow lite from the program.
I only need a few of these, maybe we could get enough interest to finance the minimum fifty per order. 
I would appreciate feedback on this, it could create a nice crossing control for us American modelers. 
I'll try to post his reply. Mike

The current unit is based on UK and European system.

I would be happy to consider redesigning the unit for the US system. 

I assume you have something like this in mind



Depending on qty (and budget price) I can make a module that has some or all of the following
1,2 or 3 programmable outputs (each output can drive up to 8 LED's or 4 Incandescent bulbs)
1 programmable output to drive a Bell or Buzzer
2 programmable channels to drive servo's,each channel can drive 2 servo's
I could also make the servo channels speed adjustable (open/close time)
1 or 2 channel track sensor inputs
possibly other features TBA
The minimum qty would be 50 built boards (PCB) costing estimated £3.95 each (UK sterling)

If you are interested email me you specification for the module

If you want a prototype based your specification, I can do a hand wired lash up for £20 + postage


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## 2869ral (Dec 15, 2015)

I would like to get the particulars on these, and do you know how many photo resistors these are using? I might be interested in 20 or so.


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

Tony's 6V6 unit uses 2 sensor inputs, he says PTs can be used. We should gather as much input before making an order, to have the control as versatile as possible. Getting them directly from him will be a lot cheaper than retail from a vendor. 
On the one I used, two PTs are enough for a track used one-way. I expect extra PTs in parallel would work for our uses, to compensate for different train lengths. For trains going both ways, I would recommend double track and two complete sets of crossings and controls.


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