# here we go again!another lionel prewar



## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

picked up this on ebay last week. its a lionel 248. got it for 50 bucks. and im really surprised. its not in bad shape. mechanically wise it runs. needs some gear work but other wise its pretty sound. paint is decent. im actually debating on leaving it or just doing a repaint. what do you guys think? also, any more info I can get on this bad boy would be great! enjoy the pics.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Great find for 50 bucks!

Don't have a lot of additional info, but i will offer that most of the repaints I see look fantastic. One thing you have going for you with these engines is no decals. Virtually all of the trim work: doors, grab irons, vents ... come off. This makes painting so much easier.

The hardest thing will probably be matching the color. Don't rule out all those alternate colors that were used, maybe not for that specific engine, but some of the blue and green shades used back then were really neat!

Enjoy!:smokin:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Agreed, nice! I always wanted one! I would repaint it and bring it back to its former glory. Nice pick up.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice find. You know me, I always advocate leaving things the way they were found.
Sure, restore it, for $50 you can't go wrong.


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

Looks fine to me, plus if you repaint you can bring down the value.
_Now now my Lionel 33, don't be jealous... Ok fine, be very very jealous._


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's your piece, paint it or don't paint it, your choice.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If the value goes any lower then 50$ you'll have to give it away!


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

im not really worried about value so I decided to go ahead and start stripping the paint off the frame. this old paint literally peels off once you let it sit in some stripper. no rust to say the least ill snap some pics once I get it all cleaned off.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

I have very few pieces that are capital-C Collector items, and lots that I've restored or repainted to suit myself. Every piece I work on increases its value in my eye, and I've painted some junkers to look appealing, maybe enough to hold or increase their value in another's eye, when the time comes to pass them on. I realize you want to be true to its original colors, and that's a good thing to shoot for. I, for one, am gratified some of us don't buy stuff to appeal to someone else's eye or even because we think of its collectible value over its appeal to us. It's your hobby, as it is mine, so am attaching a few pix of some of my fun pieces.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

wow great pics. so I started with the frame with paint removal process. paint peeled right off with some stripper and a light wire wheel. very little rust on the bare frame. its straight as an arrow so that's always a plus. what's going to be the best way to be to cleanup the brass? that seems to be my biggest challenge so far.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Perhaps you can alert GRJohn. He knows how to work with many types of metals including brass. Great project. She's gonna be a little beauty!


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

I cant wait! the challenge too is going to be keeping the couplers on while I paint the frame


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Since you're not worried about 100% original, I'd remove the couplers, clean them up separately, and then put them back on when you're done finishing the frame. It'll be a ton easier, and you'll be able to get the rust under the couplers as well.

Are you going to try to paint it with all the brass trim in place? I think I'd remove it for the painting and cleaning.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

To be honest, I would have left it. There is something nice about the look of a well loved toy. 

...but...

It will look fantastic when it's done!


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

john when I am going to remove all the accents before I do the repaint. I have heard that the "brass" has a clear coat and if I buff it out I could remove the clear coat causing it to tarnish. what would be the best way to polish it up?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

here's the frame with all the trim pieces removed


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd polish the brass, and of course you'll end up removing the clear coat in the process. You can then coat it again. Something like Rust-Oleum Gloss Crystal Clear will protect it for a long time as long as it's not exposed to direct sunlight or extreme temperatures.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Did they use real brass for them anyone know?
Or are they brass plated?

If brass try rubbing some toothpaste with an old soft toothbrush, you do save all old toothbrushes right? Everyone should.
They come in handy for cleaning also, I save them all and to be on the safe side I boil them before I save them. All kinds, soft, hard & medium, different types work on different things.:smilie_daumenpos:

Toothpaste, toothbrush or soft rag to clean them, then buff it out with polish.
That is if it is brass, not just brass plated.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

that's what im not sure of ed. I think it would be a safe assumption but then again not 100 percent sure. can anyone clarify?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Does a magnet stick to it?


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## machinejack (May 5, 2010)

Looks like a good buy. I looked at it myself but I'm more into post war than prewar. I do have a 1926 252 "the engine is olive green" set complete as cars go but not matching paint. For about the same money several years ago. Thinking I may go the Tuscan route, bead blast and start again.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Big ed, I did try to see if it was magnetic and it is not. im most likely its brass not just brass plate. well here are the frames stripped down ready for paint. how would I removed the couplers so I can paint?


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

Probably Brasso, a lot of finger-grease (parts are too small to use elbow grease), and some kind of clear coat.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

njoffroader said:


> Big ed, I did try to see if it was magnetic and it is not. im most likely its brass not just brass plate. well here are the frames stripped down ready for paint. how would I removed the couplers so I can paint?


You going to try to fix the lower left corner first?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Here,


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

If you keep the rivets just tape off the coupler. Feed the tape into the slot for coverage.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You'll have to remove the rivets to remove the couplers. For a complete restoration, that's what I'd do, otherwise you'll have unfinished (and possibly rusty) space between the couplers and the frame.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Maybe just tape them off and hand brush paint them?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What does that do for the space between the coupler and the frame? Still rusty...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What does that do for the space between the coupler and the frame? Still rusty...


Well, you clean the rust off and when you spray the body you spray the space?:dunno:
What am I missing here?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Well, you clean the rust off and when you spray the body you spray the space?:dunno:
> What am I missing here?


I guess just the obvious.

Tell me how you're going to clean or paint the part between the coupler and the frame in this shot. If you can get all that without removing the rivet, you're very clever.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well first thing you have to do is flip that over and take the picture.
You're talking about the other side right? Your not showing what is in question.
To paint what you're showing is easy, even with the coupler taped off.
Heck for that little bit underneath, you could even brush it on.

You are right it would be much easier to take them off to paint, but it can be done with them on. 

Just undo the rivets. 
Somehow I was thinking that he did not want to take the rivets off.

So what do you think Jersey?
You going to unrivet them?
That would be the best thing to do.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

well in a perfect world I would like to. would I have to drill out these rivets or are can I cut them with some snips?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

njoffroader said:


> well in a perfect world I would like to. would I have to drill out these rivets or are can I cut them with some snips?


In the pic GRJ posted, drill the hollowed part with a sharp bit slightly larger than the outside diameter of the crimped area. You may have to hold the opposite side to keep it from spinning. You can use standard machine screws and nyloc nut if you don't want to rivet it back together.



gunrunnerjohn said:


> View attachment 37980


Carl


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

okay well here's the cab with a fresh coat of paint. it still needs another coat and a shot of clear.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice paint, but it does look a bit lighter than the original.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks great to me, you can run it in the dark for GRJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow ... just seeing this project. Neat loco ... nice work!

As for the brass, I clear-coat mine with model airplane dope. Dries hard, super clear. I've tried using Rustoleum spray-on clear coats, but will often have micro-cracking in the surface after some time. No cracks with the dope.

Keep us posted on this ... looks beautiful!

TJ


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

thanks guys. im in the process of cleaning up the brass so I can start getting the cab back together so I can start wok on the frame. im definitely going to have to replace the bulb socket but that's an easy fix. tj thanks for the advice for the brass. you're talking about the dope used for sealing model airplane air frames. I believe I have some actually from the days of building guillow, planes so ill have to take a look. have to be super careful with this brass cleanup. I cant use any wire wheels or polishing wheels I have to clean up by hand so im trying to take my time to make sure they come out right.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

I tried cleaning up the brass. I gotta say im really not happy there's got to be something better for cleaning plated brass. well here's a picture of some of it that cleaned up nicely.


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

If the pieces are solid brass and clear-coated with something, you have to get back down to the brass to clean it properly and when its shiny-bright, clear coat it again to keep it from re-tarnishing. If it's something other than brass and just has a brass electroplating, you may be SOL; try scratching the back side of a piece to check. I think you can still get Brasso; a toothbrush and a lot of effort can help, especially in tight corners. You don't say why you can't use wire or polishing wheels, but I suspect it's because you are afraid it may be just plating, not true brass.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

its not true brass its only plated. I have heard of stories where brasso can strip plating


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

so ive decided to keep the brass as is. heres the frame with the handrails put back on.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I wonder if clear coating them would shine them up any?

The above picture link.
Did you forget to go back a second time and click insert all so the picture will show as a picture instead of a link?
(One picture just click on the link you see when you go back the second time.)


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## mrjcoz (Apr 12, 2011)

i learned a lot of tricks on here for restoring prewar stuff.the brass is brass on these.i used a dremel and buffing wheel and they shined like a new trumpet.i did not clear coat as i should have.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

mrjcoz said:


> i used a dremel and buffing wheel and they shined like a new trumpet


Ditto for me, too, along with a clear coat.

That said, I think the old brass with the newly painted shell on this loco looks great. A new lease on life, with some old-school character to tell the tale!

Nice work!!!

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks great! , just be careful with the tabs during reassembly. Easy to scratch paint or break it. It looks old but well taken care of!


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

so i did decide to paint the frame with the couplers on. i taped them up like crazy. once the enamel fully cures in a couple days ill post some pictures. so the original ebay ad did say it was running. HOGWASH. the gears are all messed up and misaligned. i tried to take a pic so you can see. what keeps the gears aligned just pressure? the wheels have ALOT of play.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

A lot of the gears have play in them, did you try it on a track? As long as they make good contact and don't show excessive ware your good, if not maybe a spacer on the Axel to even it out.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

can i maybe press the wheels in more?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Definitely an option, especially if there is a bit of play. If they go in a bit( loose) you can put a dab of glue, epoxy to hold the wheel in . Hard to say , you'll know better after a bit of pressure is applied. Ive had some real loose wheels, some were easily fixed like that , others not so much.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

See how much you should be able to go in with the wheel?
The other wheel should be OK, unless the gear is rubbing on the frame.

I never had one so I never fooled with one, but it looks like it can go in.
Glue? I guess that couldn't hurt it, worth a try.
I wonder if it is a splined axle? 
Maybe someone had the wheel off and put it on wrong, forced it on and it messed up the spline?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

ed i think you may be right. someone has definitely been in there before. i don't believe these are the original wheels. they have a casting on them that says BOWSER. which through some research shows they make train parts.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yup ... if the wheels are marked Bowser, they are repro refits. Good quality, though.

For wheels that are loose (far out) on an axle, I often find that I can tighten them in by grabbing opposing wheels on one axle with one hand on each wheel. Then, applying gentle pressure, twist each wheel in opposing directions with additional inward pressure, then repeat the process while twisting gently in the other direction. Often, this back-and-forth torsion coaxes the wheels back in nicely. Afterwards, a tiny drop of Zap (CA glue) on the axle (where it exits the wheel hub) will keep things tight. However, apply the Zap with the wheel/axle pointed DOWNWARD, so that gravity doesn't wick the Zap through the wheel too far, into the axle bearing.

TJ


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

thanks tj. im going to try it out tomorrow and see if i can work something out. should i use a little heat for some persuasion?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

so i was able to pull the wheel off. i'm going to glue the gear permanently to the wheel.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Is that the problem?
The gear doesn't stay put on the square notch of the wheel?

I thought it was the wheel itself that was loose on the axle?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

How come you're forgetting to go back to the paperclip after you upload and click.
So the picture shows as a picture?
Didn't I tell you this before?

Click edit, then go advanced, then the paper clip then click manage attachments then click insert all.
If there is only one picture click on the link showing.

Easier for all to see the picture without any clicking.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

sorry ed! A lot of times when i take these and post em on the spot its a mobile upload from my phone. ill make sure to go in and edit =). the problem was the gear was loose and flopping around so even with just enough play in the wheels it still wasn't making a proper mesh.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

njoffroader said:


> sorry ed! A lot of times when i take these and post em on the spot its a mobile upload from my phone. ill make sure to go in and edit =). the problem was the gear was loose and flopping around so even with just enough play in the wheels it still wasn't making a proper mesh.


Before I hit the sack, I didn't mean to come off sounding like I am scolding you.
Sorry, I should have added a smile face.

I tell a lot that and I thought I told you?
It may have been someone else, I didn't have time to search first.
No big problem, but it makes it so much better to view.
Especially if there are a bunch of pictures to see.
Sorry for making it sound that way.

I guess it can't hurt to glue it on?
Put a drop on the axle like TJ said too?

Off to dream world now, up at 1:30 am tomorrow.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

okay so today's update. the wheel situation has been fixed. the gears mesh like butter =). so than i decided to finish up the frames with some clear coat.....and thats where it went wrong. cleared the cab...okay not bad. than went to the frame; and it turned milky!!!=0. im not really sure why im trying to scramble to "fix" this otherwise its going to be another strip down and repaint.=/ but here is the gears all squared away. and here ya go big ed! image in the post.=)


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Another TJ tip ... for the 2-cents that it's worth!  ...

On smooth axles like yours (as opposed to ones with knurled ends), I put the last 1/4" or so of the axle in the jaw of a Vice Grips and squeeze gently while rotating the axle around. The "waffle jaw" of the Vice Grips impresses little bumps and ridges onto the axle shaft that could help to offer a tighter grip in the bore of the wheel.

Thanks for showing the gear in the photo. I didn't realize that was held in place (in rotation) via the square hole / square peg.

Cheers,

TJ


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks tj! Yea but I ended up just gluing the gear around the peg with some super thick c.a.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

okay. after messing with the clear coat for a while i was able to salvage it.(sort of) i have learned that i'm my own biggest critic and not everything is going to be 100% perfect. so here it is put back together. i'm just waiting on the head lamp strap and whistle to come in.


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## Bloodhound (Dec 2, 2012)

Great Job! Looks fantastic!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I know exactly what your talking about. , you see ever minor imperfections, everone else thinks its great. Ive re did, and re did lots of stuff. Sometimes good enough is good enough! It looks great!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bravo! I LOVE the mix of new paint and old patina on the trim. Really, really wonderful!!!

TJ


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## mrjcoz (Apr 12, 2011)

great job.i myself joined here when a search sent me here on how to remove paint from prewar stuff i had,i repainted a whole train and it turned out great.wife wasn't thrilled when i put the painted pieces i n the oven but it sure works


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks guys!! My next step is finding some roached out pullmans and redoing those.


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