# New to Forum, just inherited old Lionel set



## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

Hi, I'm new to the forum. 

My father had a Lionel train set that was in his possesion since he was a kid (late 40's era). As I was growing up he never showed it to me and kept it in the attic, I dont think it was used much since he was a kid. I'm 40 years old now and my father has passed. The trains are now all in my possession. 

Everything is in original boxes, the boxes are very dry rotted of course. The trains appear in great condition, but some box flaps are falling off. This is the part list of what was in the 3 boxes:

Number	Name
58	lamp post 
151	Semaphore 
156	Station Platform 
394	Rotating Beacon 
2357	Caboose
2420	Searchlight Caboose
2456	hopper car
2458	Automobile car 
2460	Operating work crane 
2461	Transformer car
3451	Lionel Lines Oper. Log Dump Car
3459	automatic dump car
3472	operating milk car 
6454	Box car
6465	Tank Car
45N	Automated Gateman 
623/624	Diesel Switcher locomotive 
671W	coal car
671	locomotive


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sounds like a neat set, time to do some lubrication and cleaning and see how it runs!  I don't see any track or transformer mentioned, that will be necessary to get it working.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes, there are various tracks and transformer. Over the next week or so I will like to set it up. No telling how long it has been since it ran. My father was more into preserving than using stuff.

I'll be glad to post pictures of the set when I assemble it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

lmdave said:


> Yes, there are various tracks and transformer. Over the next week or so I will like to set it up. No telling how long it has been since it ran. My father was more into preserving than using stuff.
> 
> I'll be glad to post pictures of the set when I assemble it.



Welcome to the site.
A little lubing should be first on your list if they sat for a long time.
There is help here if you need it. 

Check out this site for pictures and a little history of your trains.
http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionelident.htm

We have other places here for lubing and fixing the trains. And a bunch of members too guide you through something.

Check out this site too, there is a bunch of basic info here, check it out.

http://www.thortrains.net/


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For the track, I'd get some ScotchBrite and clean the track before you try to use it. Do NOT use sandpaper or steel wool on the track, both are bad for different reasons! Check the cord on the transformer for cracks, if it's brittle, you may have to replace it before you use it.

You will want to lubricate the locomotive and tender whistle before trying to use the set at a minimum.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks for the tips.

These are a few cell phone pics I took when I did an inventory on them last night. Sorry for the rotation on some.














































He even had the flyer from the hobby shop from back then in the box


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

lmdave said:


> This is the part list of what was in the 3 boxes:
> 
> Number	Name
> 58	lamp post
> ...



Dave,

Welcome to the forum, and condolences on your father's passing. I think it would be a fitting tribute to him if you could get these trains running again. We can certainly help you through the process.

Your 671 is from a set as follows:

Set # 2127WS, circa 1947 -- 671, 671W, 3459, 2461, 2460, 2420, eight curved track, five straight track + 1 straight uncoupling track. Also 167 whistle controller, lockon (power connector).

The 671 is a "turbine" loco ... as the name implies, this real-life train generated power via a steam turbine rather than a convention set of pistons.

Other info on the 671 & tender ...

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_671_loco.htm

http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=671

We have several threads here on the 671. Your best bet is to carefully remove the loco shell, and then begin a cleaning/lube process. GooGone via q-tips & pipe cleaners is a good "degunker".

There were several versions of the 671 in the late '40's. Here's tech/service specs on that 1947 version:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/671-47.htm (click on each page icon to open as an individual pdf)

Here's a basic guide to Lionel motor service. The motors in various locos are different, but the fundamentals are the same ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=627

The guys above have talked about the transformer and track. Make sure the tranny chord is safe. Tranny should kick out somewhere around 9 to 18 V AC power. One power lead to the center rail, other power lead to either of the outer rails. Clean the top of the rails with GooGone and a ScotchBrite pad, along with the pin-end connectors. You can bend a center pin slightly to the left, and a side pin slightly to the right ... this will ensure a snug fit when you join two track sections together.

Hope that helps get you started.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Welcome Dave. In that era The Lionel Trains were highly valued which may explain why they kept in storage. You came to the right place and I enjoy seeing the progress. Thanks for joining. I am sure that ser is in good hands.

You may want to save the boxes separate from the trains. They can be highly valued (since it is an original set)and bad condition is better than not having any. Keep all the paper. You can get sport cards boxes if you plan to store them again.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

TJ, thanks for the nice words and all the info. And good advice about the boxes T-man.

Sounds like its not a good idea to just hook it all up and see what happens at first. There's a lot for me read up on. As if all I need is another hobby to add to my wooden model ship building, and classic 80's arcade machines. But, I want to learn more about this era of trains now.

Given that my garage is pretty full arcade and other things, I'm pretty limited for space. I do have this potential area to set up a very small track. I saw a seperate post of small setups. I guess that's a good place to start. I'm talking about a 4' by 4' potential layout.

Another NOTE on my parts list, the 623/624 engine is listed that way, because the box was 624, and the engine inside was 623. Maybe my father made a possible trade back then, or was sold an engine in the wrong box.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

A dealer probably had a display and the boxes got "switched"

If you don't have it another reference page for the switcher.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

What's the deal with the flame on my 623? Do you think that was just an aftermarket sticker added, or did some of these come with that sticker?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Someone added it.

Doesn't look bad.

Though it might take away from the value a bit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sure isn't stock!


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

Was scrolling through the pictures and saw the flyer. Lake Forest caught my eye and I looked to see where you were from! I grew up in Gentilly and New Orleans East but don't remember Bonnie's.

We've gone to a shop in Kenner (Mike's Trains) when we have been down visiting family. They have had a nice inventory.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

I grew up in New Orleans East also. If that shop was there, it was long gone even when I was young, and of course New Orleans east is a wasteland now.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

After getting home today and looking more deeply at the tracks and possible lay out, it appears I don't have the transformer controller. I have the #167 whistle blower, and the connect/disconnect wiring, but no transformer. Perhaps I missed it in his attic when I was getting this. Either way, do you have a suggested link for a transformer I could buy that is comparable with this set?


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

big ed said:


> Doesn't look bad.



I was going to say the same. It's definitely not original, but it looks pretty cool


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Nice setup, nothing beats reviving an old set. I love the smell of original Lionel smoke pellets. Trainz makes reproductions of the originals.

As to transformers there are many good choices from the postwar lineup, a good basic one is the 1033 (90 watts with accessory terminals), should have plenty of power. Since it appears you have some accessories, you might want to consider stepping up a touch to something like a KW (190 watts) or ZW (250/275 watts) those 2 have accessory terminals and capable of running more than one train on separate loops. Any of those can be reasonably found on e-bay.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The KW is the best price/performance transformer. I find them on eBay in the $30-40 range and refurb them and they sell in the $80-90 range. The most common issue is a new power cord, next is probably new carbon rollers, then you frequently have to find some bits for the handles.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto on a 1033 transformer for a basic setup, or a KW if you have more ambitious plans. Good recommendations from the guys above.

Note that both of those have a built-in whistle controller, so you would not have to use the 167 whistle controller. (FYI, a whistle controller kicks out a DC power signal that gets overlayed with the normal AC power signal ... the DC acts to turn the whistle on remotely.)

If you're looking for a quick interim option, any AC transformer with about 9 to 18 V AC variable output, around 50 Watts or more should get the trains running.

TJ


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks for the transformer ideas, I bid and won a 1033 PS this morning on EBAY. 

Also, I worked on my small room for my small layout. The felt paper didn't quite cover, but I can patch that. I'm going to build a display case on the right wall to house the cars.

I'm still waiting on some straight tracks, but here are all the cars displayed. I found some need repair (the crane, 671W missing a connector latch). I also bought some material for underneath the track that I will be adding on.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You need one lousy piece of track? PM me your address and I'll send you one! Consider it your welcome prize to the forum.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You have two very nice pieces, a transformer car with no broken insulators and I believe your spot light caboose is desirable too!


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

:thumbsup: On seeing you're ideas. For any needed parts here are couple places you can look:http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8090 This link:http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm Has repair and parts diagrams for most items you have.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

I just realized I had 671W backwards to 671 Engine. That may explain why I thought I had missing connectors, these (671/671W) appear to connect with just two metal flat bars.

John, Thanks for the offer! But, I do have some track coming in that I got fairly cheap.

T-Man, I did read somewhere that the RED transformer car is more sought after.

Kwikster, thanks for the links, I may need some parts.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Welcome to the O-scale club.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Dave,

Judging by your pics, all of those locos/cars appear to be in very nice shape for their age. Chalk one up to your Dad for packing them all away so carefully for all of those years!

If you ever need Lionel parts, we all use a few good reputable dealers here. Jeff Kane at the Train Tender is on the top of my list ... www.ttender.com

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The dump car and the crane are sought after too.

That is a 12 wheeled crane right?

Your going to need a bigger table.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Looks like you have some nifty stuff. I also have 1033 transformers and have been very happy with them.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

OK, this is my first attempt at a layout. I bought some foam strips from the hobby shop and painted them gray and sprinkled gravel on them, then reassembled the tracks. Also added most of the other accessories. So here it is:










If anything looks out of place, let me know.

Now for all the basic questions of setups, or point me in the right direction for wiring.

How do you connect the wires to the tracks for the lights on each accessory?


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

If it's just one with two terminals for lights or the rotating beacon, you just connect them to another lockon if you have one. The gateman, semaphore, operating section and switches are a little more complicated.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

For the track, you have a couple of options. The most basic is to have all of the track "hot" or live. Hot wire from transformer to center rail, other wire to either outer rail. However, you could set up the inner and outer "half loops" on the right side each on their own "block" section ... with that, you could toggle either on/off, and have a loco sitting idle on one while another loco was riding on the other. That said, not too much to be gained here via such a small layout. Still, if your interested, chime back and we can step you through the basics.

Regards,

TJ


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

IMO, I'd start with the basics first. Start with getting the trains running and working properly before you add accessories. If you haven't yet done so I'd start by visiting: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm and looking up each engine, find the lube points. Using a needle oiler or a syringe lightly lube those points with 5w-20 (or other very light) motor oil. Do not use grease even though Lionel says to, it dries out and gets gummy possibly stopping your train from running.

Usually powering the track is simple enough, a Lock-on and 2 wires and shazam you've got power. Most recommend around 16 gauge wire, which should handle your power needs for all your locomotives easily. 

Carl.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

I agree, getting the trains operating should be priority #1. I'm still waiting to receive my transformer, but in the meantime I should be doing the suggested lubrication.

I don't have any of the lock-on for the wires, but I assume those are readily available at the hobby shop that supports O-gauge.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Should be readily available at a hobby shop that features O. Or, try a local train show, tag sale, etc. These things are all over.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

With some tin snips or cut all scissors you can make your own connector. Some metal strips bent at 90 degrees near the end and slip it into the rail from the underside. Solder a wire to each one and you have contact!!!

Just isolate the center contact with tape where it passes the outer rail .


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Or, you can just solder to the rails for tubular track, very easy.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

My 671 Locomotive has a lever on top, I've been trying to find out exactly what it does. Is it to turn the smoker on and off, Forward/Reverse? What position does what?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

That lever is for the "e-unit" aka reverse mechanism. The lever will have two positions "on" and "off". In the on position, you can tell because you'll feel the detent, each power off or direction button press will cycle to the next position when working properly. They are forward, neutral, reverse and back to neutral. When in the "off" position, it will maintain the last mode, i.e. forward. The smoke unit on the post-war has no on/off switch.

Carl


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks. I just came across some info about the e-unit before reading your reply. It was a little confusing at first, but now I get it. Things will make much mure sense when I finally get my transformer and apply some power.

About the smoker, I thought I read somewhere, that if you're not using the smoker, or running it dry, it needs to be turned off?


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I love electrical questions, right up my alley!

For your 1033 the A terminal connects to the Center rail and the U to the outside rail. To power the lighted accessories C-B is 11 volts and good for the lighted accessories. I would use a light switch for on/off.

The gateman and semaphore are best powered off the track. You can use insulated track sections or a weight controller. Insulated tracks are best but you will have to modify a couple of track pieces insulating an outside rail.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

The post war smokers, the one in your 671, are not that type. Those used a pellet to produce smoke via a wire wrapped around a ceramic core. The ones you can't run dry are the newer fluid based units. Yours will be fine, it's made to be run without any pellets in it. You can use fluid in the old smoker, just 3-5 drops at a time, and it will smoke just fine. Also, if you do use pellets, only 1 until the smoke drops off a lot, or you risk fouling the mechanism. The pellets are a wax type and can get pretty bad if you over do it. I ran my post war for 2-3 weeks, around 2-3 hours a day with nothing in the smoker, added a pellet and smokes like it should.

Carl


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the smoke unit is a pellet type, it won't be damaged by running dry. OTOH, if it's a liquid unit, you MUST have fluid in it or turn it off.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

areizman said:


> For your 1033 the A terminal connects to the Center rail and the U to the outside rail.
> .


Actually, for a 1033, the U is the center rail and the A terminal goes to the outside rail. If you connect it your way, modern whistles won't work, the DC will be the wrong polarity. There are a couple of Lionel transformers that are backwards like this, the 1033 being one of them.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks gunrunner. I new I had a 50/50 chance of getting that one wrong. Yes the 1033 is one of those exceptions that connect the U connection to the Center rail.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't ask me how I learned this.  It has something to do with the whistle not working.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Kwikster said:


> ...You can use fluid in the old smoker, just 3-5 drops at a time, and it will smoke just fine.


I did not know this--thanks for that tidbit of info!


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

My 1033 Transformer came in today. I was eager to see things run. It actually runs pretty decent (well decent from my perspective), but there are spots on the track that it slows down on, like it's not getting enough voltage, also, when it passes over the back switch track, I see sparks underneath. When I had the switcher hooked up, they would have trouble switching when the engine was running.

I lube the exposed axles on all cars/engines, I didn't open up the engine yet to lube the inside. I does have problems getting started with low voltage, it needs a high voltage to give it a good boost.

Here a quick vid of it running around the track. Just to see if anyone notice anything weird in the sounds or anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL8rDwwNgdM


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The slowdown is easy to explain, there is more friction on the curves, so it'll take more power. This is why cruise control is so popular. 

Another reason for slowdowns is poor connections between track segments.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Make sure the pins on each traction are clean with no rust. Make sure the top of all the rails are clean. DO NOT USE SANDPAPER OR STEEL WOOL TO CLEAN TRACK. Use a ScotchBrite pad or a wire wheel. To make tight connections between track sections, do not use Lionel's recommendation of pinching the open ends of the rails. This doesn't make a good connection and you have to do it every time you connect the track together. With the pins of a section pointing away from you, bend the left rail where the pin is installed to the left and bend the center rail to the right. When you connect two track sections together, the slightly offset pins will put pressure on the connection, not only in the section that does not have pins, but also in the section where the pins are installed. I put a small layout together recently using this technique with 40 feet of track and only one lockon. Worked well.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

When you touched the e unit lever why did your hand jump?
Did you get zapped?

Take all the cars off and just run the engine, hard to tell with all the noise from all the wheels.

Clean the track?

Clean the pickup rollers? Did you oil them? I put just a drop where they turn but wipe off anything on the roller itself.

I would not run it anymore till you take the shell off and do a little servicing on it.

Take the brush plate off and clean the armature. Make sure the worm gear got lubed too.

Do you know how? 
Have you been looking at the help threads here?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Second on Ed's suggestions. My 2026 (1953 PW) takes about 9-10 volts to get going and then I can throttle back a bit. It's always best to get the engine sorted out and working before adding cars. But, at least it's showing life :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

big ed said:


> When you touched the e unit lever why did your hand jump?
> Did you get zapped?


Haha....I had to go back and watch the video to see what you were talking about. No, I think the camera was slipping out my hand and just pull my other hand back to catch it....it did look like I got shocked.

Yes, lots of work to still do. The whistler doesn't work and I attempted to disassemble and clean it up and reassemble, but no whistle. The relay works but the electric motor just locks. I may just look for a new internal assembly.

My 624 Engine runs also, but sparks a lot underneath at the switch tracks also and makes a loud noise, but moves fine. The motor is in the back and the noise appears to be up front. I don't know if it could be the electric latch thing.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

lmdave said:


> Haha....I had to go back and watch the video to see what you were talking about. No, I think the camera was slipping out my hand and just pull my other hand back to catch it....it did look like I got shocked.
> 
> :laugh::appl:I was wondering how you got shocked,
> 
> ...


Try to clean the rollers and switches. Is the noise almost like a screeching erch erch sound? I can't write the sound I am thinking of.

Did you lube all the gears?


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

I found that the buzzing is the e-unit in the 624. From doing search searches on e-units and buzzing, a lot of responses were "that is normal" and a that it is a part of postwar train's "charm". The 671 doesn't buzz like that. But, I can deal with it as long as it's not harming anything.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the buzz really bothers you, there are simple modifications to run them on DC and eliminate the buzz.


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## lmdave (Apr 20, 2012)

I read about that, but I'd rather not. The noise doesn't bother me if it's normal.

This is fun bringing these things back to life, but something is telling me I'm going to get the bug for finding room and creating a large layout.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

One thing I've found is, setting the e-unit to "off" stops the buzz. So if you're not changing directions you can do that. Since I have not yards to switch in and out of I lock mine in forward, and occasionally use the e-unit to cycle it from time to time.

Carl


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well yes, turning the E-unit off turns off the power to the coil, so it clearly won't buzz.


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