# 2017 Lionel Cat on-line



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

The latesl Lionel catalogs are on their website now. Some interesting stuff in it.

Bill


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

http://www.lionel.com/catalogs

Finally a lionchief plus berkshire. Some interesting sets too with the mickey mouse ears and the RC helicopter flat car.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Catalog is hoo hum. The only thing I liked in there is the logging add ons. There is 4 pieces made up of one truck each and they look pretty cool.





Other then that a big nothing for me. Too expensive and what gets me is they come out with road names for engines, example of Reading & Northern but then there is no rolling stock, maybe a caboose but that's it?. Whats up with that?



Also I see the same beer cars from last year where is the Ol Mil car, Black Label, Miller Lite, from the earlier series? 



Seems like something is happening there at Lionel?


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Congratulations to Lionel for some fine catalogs. Their marketing department is on overdrive and did a great job. I really liked what Howard did with capitalizing on the Christmas merchandise. 

The 21 inch passenger cars of interest to me, especially with the LED lighting. It also seems they are offering less in the Legacy system and more with the LionChief/Plus/Bluetooth operation. 

I don't own any American Flyer trains, but the Polar Express set with the snow on the passenger car roofs looks great. I would considering buying that set.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

This catalog looked like a Volune 2. I wish they had some more Legacy Locos that were Steam. No intentions to buy things in the new catalog


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Bluetooth was an interesting development.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Nothing really hit my must have list. Pricing a big bummer.

Bill


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

seayakbill said:


> Nothing really hit my must have list. Pricing a big bummer.
> 
> Bill


I feel the same way Bill. That's why I'm waiting for York. Plus Lionel's new stuff will be old stuff in two or three years and I'm sure I can get a descent deal at York for them or a local train show. I want to see the reviews on the new stuff.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2017)

My first observation is the 2917 Signature Catalog is about *1/3 smaller* than the one released in 2016. That's a big change for whatever that may mean. Certainly not as much to chose from.

I will commend them for the Daylight version of the AC 9. *Nice to see that the Daylight fantasy engines live on*. I also took note of the UP Theater Car. Nothing else really caught me fancy.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I LOVE the new catalog!!! It's nice to see what I'll be buying 5 years from now when everyone is tired of it and looking forward to the next NEW catalog!!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Jeff T said:


> I LOVE the new catalog!!! It's nice to see what I'll be buying 5 years from now when everyone is tired of it and looking forward to the next NEW catalog!!


Yep


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Saw the Northern Pacific boxcar in the LionScale classification. I believe these guys are manufactured in the USA with the Weaver Tooling. Looked OK but the $60 price tag was a little steep. I thought the semi-scale LionScale rolling stock was suppose to be price attractive. I guess compared to a Lionel China built scale $90 boxcar they are a price alternative.

Bill


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

My BTO days are done. All I have left on order from previous catalogs is the AFT passenger cars. I may even cancel them. Seems Lionel has an MPC era type of mentality these days. Look at their buildings compared to Menards and Woodland Scenics. Sure they fit right in with 027 and MPC era stuff. They will look pretty sad sitting to other stuff you can buy today....right out of the box.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

_For me, all in all nice catalogs. Nothing I really have to have, but that's ok.
I see the new Polar express cars are shown with snow on the roof. Will they be produced like that ? Description really doesn't say anything....

Also the trinkets are nice. Now I can tell the grand kids to get me a Lionel mug or Tee shirt. It's something train related they can purchase without spending too much..._


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Talking about Lionel prices. I bought a Lionel HT16-44 Baby Trainmaster Legacy 6-38444 at York for $260 after some light haggling. Lionel wants $500. Mine needed a fan for the smoke unit, but that didn't cost me anything. 

This engine was manufactured in 2011 and it's still listed on their website. So I will wait, the 2017 and 16 merchandise will show up at a train shows for much less. Maybe in five years like Jeff said.

http://www.lionel.com/products/pennsylvania-legacy-h16-44-diesel-8807-6-38444/


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> ......... I thought the semi-scale LionScale rolling stock was suppose to be price attractive. I guess compared to a Lionel China built scale $90 boxcar they are a price alternative.
> 
> Bill


I believe LionScale cars are all scale sized rolling stock, not semi-scale.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Traindiesel said:


> I believe LionScale cars are all scale sized rolling stock, not semi-scale.


I did not know that. I didn't know that the add-on detail, ladders, stirrups and catwalks was all scale in dimensions.

Bill


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## c.midland (Sep 22, 2015)

I'm way behind. Didn't even know a new Lionel catalog was coming out. Pleasantly surprised to see it was released today.

A new Lionel catalog is always exciting for me. Honestly, I haven't purchased a new Lionel item in years, but the kid in me still gets excited to see it.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

There are a few items that interest me.

**Western Maryland 3 Truck Shay #6*
One of the locomotives that pulled excursions I've been on that I don't have yet. I missed out on the MTH version, but this has whistle steam and the price is in line with the MTH offering.

**PRR SD40*
I have a powered & dummy from Atlas O. Might be fun to add a second powered unit.

**New York Central E8 AA Set*
I have an ABA E7 set from 3rd Rail for my NYC passenger consists, but I always love E8's. MTH E8's are ABA but I haven't researched if the NYC used E8 B units.

**Theater Inspection Car*
Need to add the UP car for the upcoming UP Excursion Set. Thinking about the Norfolk Southern car, but at 21" I'm not sure how it would match with my MTH Office Car Special set with 19" cars. I'm not expecting MTH to make these anytime soon. Or will they? What to do, what to do??

**65' Mill Gondolas*
Looks cool, would look great on any freight train. Three car sets of these is also a nice feature. NS and CSX would be my picks, not sure though.

**Penn Central 50' Double Door Box Car*
Just because it's Penn Central.

**Rotary Gondolas*
I have as many gons as some railroads. But a long unit train of these looks so cool. I like all the road names.

**40' Trailers*
These would look great on Menards flat cars or just parked near an industry. There's an old, faded Penn Central trailer used for storage parked at a salvage business nearby that I pass by a lot.

**2 Bay Hopper 3 Packs*
I also have more hoppers than I need. But the Reading cars would look great added to my Reading 2 Bay Hopper unit train with MTH and Atlas O cars. And the B&O and Western Maryland would go great with the Shay or my EM-1.

**LionScale 57' Mechanical Reefers*
I never caught the 'Reefer Madness' disease, but I did get a few of the Weaver 57' reefers. A couple 6 car sets would give me a nice long consist.

**180 Watt Powerhouse* 
One or two of these to power my Ross Turntable and Transfer Table tracks and storage yards.

I may get some of these, all of these or none of these. I like to wait a week or two to let the excitement die down and prioritize what I truly want and need. But, sometimes the excitement never waivers.


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## PRSLDave (Apr 22, 2016)

So much LionChief. So little Legacy.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

PRSLDave said:


> So much LionChief. So little Legacy.


There are those that believe that is the future. I hope not.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think I might jump on some of the little disconnect cars for my logging train.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I can not get the catalog to open. But I did read some of the comments including those who said they will just wait until they are used, for less. 

If we just buy them used, for less, then Lionel goes out of business or curtails their offerings. This is what some have suggested is already happening.

I have had a GN Hustle Muscle on order for 5 months. The local hobby store is cutting way back on in store offerings. "Made to Order" is the future. 

On prices: Yes, new locomotives are expensive. I buy some new. Of those new, I buy Imperial (MTH), some Legacy Lionels, and some new Williams. I have purchased some new "lesser" Lionels, although I am not "up" on all the different detail lines which dictate price. 

I buy some used ones, off ebay, and purchased a nice A-B-A off a LCCA member last year. 

So, I balance cost, "gotta have it" and detail so that I support Lionel, MTH and Williams while getting some locomotives used that are not available and may not be available for awhile. 

It's a double edged sword. Older stuff lacks the detail but is priced OK. New Lionels, MTH and Williams have the "gee whiz" stuff we want, but have the price to go with it.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Laidoffsick said:


> My BTO days are done. All I have left on order from previous catalogs is the AFT passenger cars. I may even cancel them. Seems Lionel has an MPC era type of mentality these days. Look at their buildings compared to Menards and Woodland Scenics. Sure they fit right in with 027 and MPC era stuff. They will look pretty sad sitting to other stuff you can buy today....right out of the box.


I never really bought into the BTO marketing, though it was a good way to gin up excitement about the product.

What are you noticing about Lionel, Doug, about MPC era type of mentality? I don't follow the industry close enough to know.

Thanks!


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Bryan - In my house it's called disposable income. I have numerous hobbies and unfortunately none of them are cheap!! 

Lionel has to win me back by bringing quality back into the equation. Missing parts, loose parts, engines that don't run and escalating prices just aren't doing it right now. Someday soon, I hope that changes.

Companies come and go every day. It's rarely the fault of the consumer when that happens. Do I want to see Lionel fail, absolutely not. But I think few of us would be surprised.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Laidoffsick said:


> My BTO days are done. .


Add me to THAT list. Once the UP Excursion cars are delivered my last 3R purchase will be complete. On the fence about the new 'theatre car'.

Opinion-Old K-Line Mikados at $1,000(+) is beyond unreasonable. This is the third run of generic USRA light Mikes-TMCC, Legacy, and now another Legacy version. Really?

Did anyone else notice this catalog is the first time that all the steam offerings have surpassed $1K mark?

I really like the Daylight AC-9. SWEET!


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Anything of interest, I'll wait a couple years for them to be discounted heavily on E-Bay. To me, now, anything marked BTO, shows me that the manufacturers have no faith in their product. Besides, what guarantee have I got that they will be built before I die.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2017)

No Daylight AC 9, Brian?


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Bryan Moran said:


> I can not get the catalog to open. But I did read some of the comments including those who said they will just wait until they are used, for less.
> 
> If we just buy them used, for less, then Lionel goes out of business or curtails their offerings. This is what some have suggested is already happening.
> 
> ...


Bryan, I don't have $500-$2000 to spend nor would I so yes I'm going to wait until the products are used or older. If that is going to put Lionel out of business then that's their own fault. 

It doesn't make since to spend a weeks pay or for some people a months pay on engines just because they're new. If you can afford it then more power to you. The same with rolling stock. $80 to $100 for one car when I can buy four cars from Menards at $19-$21 a peace.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

DennyM said:


> Bryan, I don't have $500-$2000 to spend nor would I so yes I'm going to wait until the products are used or older. If that is going to put Lionel out of business then that's their own fault.
> 
> It doesn't make since to spend a weeks pay or for some people a months pay on engines just because they're new. If you can afford it then more power to you. The same with rolling stock. $80 to $100 for one car when I can buy four cars from Menards at $19-$21 a peace.


:thumbsup:
Sometimes I feel as if I have gotten into the wrong hobby, because I can't afford the high price items. I feel as if my replies are going to create the demise of Lionel, MTH, or Atlas.
As you wrote, more power to those that can. But I'm in the minority were home and welfare come first.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> No Daylight AC 9, Brian?


Nah, I already have a MTH AC-6 and a Lionel AC-12 Cab Forwards. But I wouldn't mind running the daylight Cab Forward that you have!

For steam I'm looking towards someone making a PRR 2-10-2 N1s and Strasburg RR 2-10-0 #90 or 4-8-0 #475.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2017)

Brian, well put. I love the Daylight Cab Forward matched with the 21" K-Line passenger cars. I am also passing on the AC 9.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2017)

The LC+ Berkshire is of great interest to me, so I'm a happy camper.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

walter said:


> :thumbsup:
> Sometimes I feel as if I have gotten into the wrong hobby, because I can't afford the high price items. I feel as if my replies are going to create the demise of Lionel, MTH, or Atlas.
> As you wrote, more power to those that can. But I'm in the minority were home and welfare come first.


Walter, I have the same issue with Ham Radio. I've been a Ham Radio operator since 1998 and a lot of the 'big' radios are in the thousands. I did break down and buy a high end radio because it does the job of four radios in one. ( different frequencies and transmitting modes)

As far as trains there is a way around paying the high prices and I don't think your in the wrong hobby and I don't think our replies and comments or going to affect the big three because there is always people out there who can buy the high end stuff. Kind of like being able to buy a new car or used car.

A lot of us have found ways around the prices. I find train shows to be the best way or person to person. The same with Ham Radio. I have bought some good radios for great prices. Last year at York I bought three engines, two TMCC and one Legacy for the price of a new Legacy and they work great.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

DennyM said:


> Walter, I have the same issue with Ham Radio. I've been a Ham Radio operator since 1998 and a lot of the 'big' radios are in the thousands. I did break down and buy a high end radio because it does the job of four radios in one. ( different frequencies and transmitting modes)
> 
> As far as trains there is a way around paying the high prices and I don't think your in the wrong hobby and I don't think our replies and comments or going to affect the big three because there is always people out there who can buy the high end stuff. Kind of like being able to buy a new car or used car.
> 
> A lot of us have found ways around the prices. I find train shows to be the best way or person to person. The same with Ham Radio. I have bought some good radios for great prices. Last year at York I bought three engines, two TMCC and one Legacy for the price of a new Legacy and they work great.


Was into Ham Radio from 66 to 2010. My last radio was a Yaesu 401B. Loved that radio. WD9FGX


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

walter said:


> :thumbsup:
> Sometimes I feel as if I have gotten into the wrong hobby, because I can't afford the high price items. I feel as if my replies are going to create the demise of Lionel, MTH, or Atlas.
> As you wrote, more power to those that can. But I'm in the minority were home and welfare come first.


It's funny, but... We're almost at a time where my annual expense of owning a Corvette is less that what I spend/want to spend, on my toy train hobby.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

walter said:


> Was into Ham Radio from 66 to 2010. My last radio was a Yaesu 401B. Loved that radio. WD9FGX


I am currently using a Icom 9100, the high end radio i was talking about. I also have a Kenwood TS-520s- TM-G707 and a Yeasu FT-2900. The last two are mobiles. KB9SDS


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My purchases in the catalog appear to be limited to the disconnect car set for a logging train.


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

Lots of cool little stuff which I have to balance with what I already have on order......

I've always wanted a PostWar 1872 General set......here's my chance or get one that is command controlled thru LC.

The green Lionel Lines passenger set which could use a command control upgrade....

New Haven Alcos....dual can motors and traction tires. They'll be better pullers on my Atlas track than the LCCA AC single AC motored set which can't pull all the cars.

The Christmas disconnect cars are real cute. Folks watching our Christmas display would probably like them....

Peter


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Only items that caught my attention was the LC+ Lionel Lines Berkshire, "Green Post War FA set"....but that needs command and control.
How about a "classic" LC+ PRR Steam Turbine?
Very disappointed that the ONLY scale "BoxCab Electric", the NYC S-2 was released for the 3rd time, instead of creating much needed and missing from Lionels product line since forever; other NYC Box Cabs.
Of course they released a "what-if version" of the S-2 with NYC lightning stripes...which I am totally not into, i.e. "what if products".


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> My first observation is the 2917 Signature Catalog is about *1/3 smaller* than the one released in 2016. That's a big change for whatever that may mean. Certainly not as much to chose from.
> 
> I will commend them for the Daylight version of the AC 9. *Nice to see that the Daylight fantasy engines live on*. I also took note of the UP Theater Car. Nothing else really caught me fancy.


Same opinion here on all counts. I have taken the plunge on the UP version of the theater car but not on the AC-9 - or not yet. I really don't need another big engine that might have QC issues right out of the box although I expect Lionel must be trying to address those. 

I don't like the obvious emphasis on alternatives to Legacy but I can't see Lionel dropping that system.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

HarborBelt1970 said:


> Same opinion here on all counts. I have taken the plunge on the UP version of the theater car but not on the AC-9 - or not yet. I really don't need another big engine that might have QC issues right out of the box although I expect Lionel must be trying to address those.
> 
> I don't like the obvious emphasis on alternatives to Legacy but I can't see Lionel dropping that system.


I agree, I don't see Lionel terminating the Legacy system unless the Guggenhein Capitol Management bean counters has convinced
the powers to be that it is a money loser for the company and portfolio.

Bill


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> My purchases in the catalog appear to be limited to the disconnect car set for a logging train.


_ I have ordered some myself, but I am going to wait until I get the ones I ordered before I go any farther. Not really sure of the size. I just listened to the NOTCH 6 catalog review and the guy from Lionel said these cars would look good behind a 3 truck shay.
Somehow I think the shay is way over sized for these cars. I was thinking more on the lines of the K-line porter.._


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I have a 3-Truck Shay, a 2-Truck Shay, a Porter, and the MTH Climax, surely they'll look good behind one of those.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Yea I finally got in. Not sure but I think my laptop was not pulling the WIFI signal in. 

Now I saw what everyone else has seen. And there are a couple of discussions re: Legacy and Lionel future right now. 

I don't see a Legacy Diesel I am buying. I collect R.I. and U.P. There was one U.P. offering and it is not superior to what I am seeing out there so no deal on me spending $699 for one because it is Legacy. 

The $449 LiC + seems like a good deal to me. New locomotives, new parts and better detailing. But still no road name I gotta have, so for me no locomotives will be ordered out of this catalog. 

Which kicks me to the rolling stock. Not a lot of R.I. but as we know rolling stock is a mix on most lines anyway and I saw some box cars I like but no way are they worth $90 or $80. 

THAT to me is the bigger issue. Since when did rolling stock and cabooses get this high pricing. And then Lionel offers a "pack" for $389?? Crazy. Makes Menards stuff seem like a huge value. 

It would take only 5 cars behind a new LC + to equal the price of that LC +. That's crazy. How can model railroaders build up rolling stock options when they are $90 a piece?


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

DennyM said:


> Bryan, I don't have $500-$2000 to spend nor would I so yes I'm going to wait until the products are used or older. If that is going to put Lionel out of business then that's their own fault.
> 
> It doesn't make since to spend a weeks pay or for some people a months pay on engines just because they're new. If you can afford it then more power to you. The same with rolling stock. $80 to $100 for one car when I can buy four cars from Menards at $19-$21 a peace.


Denny
I see your point and mentioned the displeasure with the silly rolling stock prices. But looking for my lines of Rock Island on ebay today, a lot of in the used rolling stock seems to have benefited from the high prices of new rolling stock and many ebay sellers are $55 or more. 

I certainly can not afford new everytime and have to pick and choose but in my mind a world without Lionel is a bad world. If they go out of business, then that leaves MTH, Williams, Atlas - but I only see the detail and overall viability out of MTH. 

I have 3 Williams locomotives and they lack the detail and features of MTH and Lionel but cost me a lot less. 

If Lionel goes bankrupt, then I don't see any manufacturer other than MTH stepping in to continue the technology bounce we all enjoy.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Bryan, in answer to your rolling stock accumulation question. Paula and I dealt with it today and came up with a one word answer... slowly. And in three words... very, very, slowly.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I don't see Lionel going bankrupt only because there is a lot of people that will spend the money. I think Lionel knows this at the same time I looked on their website at the rolling stock and I came across a set of three hoppers for $219. Menards hoppers are under $30 and look just as nice. My last Legacy I'm going to buy for a while is a Santa Fe GP30. Hopefully I'll find one at York. If not I can wait.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

DennyM said:


> I don't see Lionel going bankrupt only because there is a lot of people that will spend the money. I think Lionel knows this at the same time I looked on their website at the rolling stock and I came across a set of three hoppers for $219. Menards hoppers are under $30 and look just as nice. My last Legacy I'm going to buy for a while is a Santa Fe GP30. Hopefully I'll find one at York. If not I can wait.


Denny, in the past the Lionel brand has survived even through bankruptcies. The last two owners of the Lionel brand have been capitol management companies, Wellspring and then Guggenheim. It will be interesting on just how much longer Guggenheim holds on to Lionel.

Bill


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