# Layout guidance



## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

Starting a layout and would like to hear from those far more experienced than I. In the video you will see the rough layout on a temporary 4x8 board. The Table should be finished this weekend but is still only 4x8. My main concerns are the train coming off the track especially around the curves.

On this layout I have noticed that a third car, any third car comes off around a curve but with just the engine and tanker I do not have that problem. 

2/3 of the track here is used I picked up and while the train does not lose power the horn no longer sounds, is this because of the used track? I only have a 40watt transformer and know that I need to up that, would 80 be enough or should I go bigger?

This layout leave very little room (other than inside) for any terrain which is something I am looking forward to working on.

So the bottom line is I know this is wrong but I'm not sure how to start making it right. Is 4x8 just too small for O27? Just starting out the wife doesn't want me to go too big until I'm (she) is sure this is something I want to do. 

Thank you for taking the time to read and watch, I look forward to hearing any advice.

ed


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Did it come off at the end of the video?

Can you squeeze another foot on the table?
I would tell "her" you need a larger table from the get go.

I was just reading an old magazine and it recommended that when you use those trestles that you should add a 1/4" plywood cut out to the shape for the rail to sit on. What you need is more table to effectively run the trestle setup.

You could shim up that problem curve a little, the outside line you need some kind of guard rail on the edge of the table. 
On any grade on the down stroke a long train might do that it has to do with the train pushing on the couplers and the speed and the weight of the cars, a lot more can be said about the trestles.

Right now you got to "ask" for a larger table, it is easier to build larger from the get go.
I see you have the room.
Buy her some flowers.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Wow! So many questions, but you are off to a good start.

First off, decide what you want. Do you want a highly detailed layout? City, countryside, industrial or like me. it is a toy and I jammed as much track on my layout as I could possibly get. Then, I went for detailing in whatever room was left.

This didn't leave room for some of the accessories I would like to have. But, I can run 4 trains and 2 bumper cars at once. My layout is for entertainment of children and grandchildren.

As for your transformer, It's ok for now, but you won't have much capacity for accessories. I like lights and motion. For my money, I like the old 1033's. They are inexpensive and can run 2 locos and some accessories. I've paid from $0 to $25 for them. They allow multiple operators on my layout.

As far as you derailing goes, I've found loose track is often the cause. Since you have used track, I would look at the track not laying flat on the table.

But first. Before you go any further.....PAINT THE TABLE GREEN!

The longer you go, the more difficult it becomes and it makes such a big difference. Even if you plan to landscape, the green paint will prevent the bright wood from showing through any small gaps in your "grass".


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Also on the problem curve I see you have a trestle piece under the curve.
It is recommended that you don't end the down grade on a curve but instead end it at a straight section.

The truth is that you need more room to use the trestle.
That is a steep grade you made.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dave Sams said:


> But first. Before you go any further.....PAINT THE TABLE GREEN!



Alien glow in the dark green would be good. :thumbsup:

He is building an alien layout.


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

My thought is to make a desert landscape that looks like the area out in Nevada and Arizona with mountains, sand, cactus and military base.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Agreed with all, the slopes are hard to get right and need space to play out . Did the train derail at the end or does it just short out? Try running through the tunnel without running the train down the slope first. Also try running the other way in the tunnel. If its just shorting out iT could be price of track. Love the alien theam!


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I started out at 4x8, but it wasn't long before I added, and added and added. I'd like to add more, but......









The "Figure 8" and a loop around it is the original layout. I had a trestle but took it out because it obscured the view of the rear of the layout. Also, using PW locos and conventional power, I couldn't run a train on the trestle without constantly adjusting the power.









One tip, plan your next addition now and put your controls where they won't have to be moved.

No aliens spotted anywhere.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

you can do a lot with 4 x 8. there should be pictures on here somewhere of my first layout. I had about 6 switches (all gone because they caused most of my problems), couple of loops and a pretty good amount of lanscaping around. The incline will make it harder for you. go bigger if you can now  it wasn't long before mine expanded to a L shaped layout and then expanded again to make it U shaped. I haven't used a trestle, but I have a separate elevated track so I don't have to worry about the incline. 

Oh yes, paint the board. I like the texture look of my grass and gravel so I use that woodland scenics but having the board be a dark green or even brown is nice for anything showing through. I used a spray paint that was a kinda black/gray/gray mixture.ñ


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

Yes the rear car comes off the track at the end of the vid. I have since gone around and tightened all the track sections and it is running better. After watching the train and reading the replies on here my lovely wife has agreed that we need to go a little bigger (don't worry Big Ed she will still get flowers).

Do you think it is a lack of power that is causing the horn not to sound? 

ed


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

Is the train new or used? Is the volume turned up on it?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dward said:


> Yes the rear car comes off the track at the end of the vid. I have since gone around and tightened all the track sections and it is running better. After watching the train and reading the replies on here my lovely wife has agreed that we need to go a little bigger (don't worry Big Ed she will still get flowers).
> 
> Do you think it is a lack of power that is causing the horn not to sound?
> 
> ed


It could be but it blew before? Did you accidentally turn it off?

Buy her a new car and maybe she would let you have the whole room.


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

Yes the train is brand new out of the box but was released in 2002. The horn did work on the 8 pieces of new track that came with the set (and was quite loud) I only have the single set of two wires going from the control box to one clip. I am certainly going to look for a 1033 and probably a basic book on wiring. I would like to have a few accessories at some point. 

Big Ed we just got her a new car about a year ago and she already let me convert one room into a gym. For now I get the basement which is roomy but she wants to be able to keep other things down there as well.

ed


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dward said:


> Yes the train is brand new out of the box but was released in 2002. The horn did work on the 8 pieces of new track that came with the set (and was quite loud) I only have the single set of two wires going from the control box to one clip. I am certainly going to look for a 1033 and probably a basic book on wiring. I would like to have a few accessories at some point.
> 
> Big Ed we just got her a new car about a year ago and she already let me convert one room into a gym. For now I get the basement which is roomy but she wants to be able to keep other things down there as well.
> 
> ed


OK then I am out of ideals for that. 
O takes a lot of space and the more you can devote to it the better. You see from the few reply's so far most have added on eventually.
A U shape would be nice if you have the room, 3 sheets of 4x8.

You should figure out the size you can dedicate to it first, then go from there.

Go get the boss and have a pow wow.
Wait till tonight and bring a big bottle of wine, then wait till the bottle is empty to discuss it.
You bring a beer, let her have the bottle of wine.


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## infernisdiem (Nov 12, 2011)

> Big Ed we just got her a new car about a year ago and she already let me convert one room into a gym. For now I get the basement which is roomy but she wants to be able to keep other things down there as well.
> 
> ed


If you leave enough room under the tables, you can fit a tote under there with some room to spare, if you wanted to be able to sit while running the train, buy a bar stool that is fairly tall, and build the table up to that size, add some shelves under the table, and there you go, she can store stuff down there, and you can run the train lol. Also, you would be surprised at what you can get away with, I was told I could only have a table that was 3 feet wide, and my wife had to be able to get into the closet. I have two 3'6"x 3'6" tables, just short enough that she still can get into the closet, and a little wider than she permitted me to have. I told her that when we get a bigger place (hopefully a 4 bedroom) that I am grabbing my other two 3'6"x3'6" tables and adding them to my layout lol.


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## infernisdiem (Nov 12, 2011)

As a positive note, I get away with it as well cause it keeps my son out of trouble by playing with my trains lol.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

When we bought this house, King Edward spoke.

The 2 car garage and loft is mine as is the basement!
And I captured one room for a den too! 

She can have the rest, I gave her a nice sized room in the dungeon for a laundry and storage room. Nice guy I am.

You guys are wussy whipped, stand up for your right to make a train layout!:smokin:

Don't tell her I told you that.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The Forum Safety officer (hah...who appointed him?) wants to
suggest that you put a guardian fence on your table so that a speeding loco
or derailing car does not meet face to face with the hard, hard
floor. A strip of fiberboard about 4 inches high should protect
your train.

Don


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Try reversing the wires on the transformer, then try the horn.


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

Sheesh sjm, don't I feel stupid now  that fixed the horn issue. Yes DonR the finished table will have some sort of guard railing going all the way around.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No biggie, it takes a bit of time to learn this stuff, there is plenty I don't know. Thats why this place is great, lots of free advice and lots of good people!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> No biggie, it takes a bit of time to learn this stuff, there is plenty I don't know. Thats why this place is great, lots of free advice and lots of good people!


That was an easy fix?
That is why I told him to start a new thread instead of just running it by me.
The more help the better.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Any harder an I would have asked for help!


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## Taylor622 (Jan 31, 2013)

*New to 027*

Classic Toy Trains magazine and their website have great articles and "how to" instructions and videos to design and build a 4 X 8 layout. They have really helped me enjoy my trains.


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## infernisdiem (Nov 12, 2011)

big ed said:


> When we bought this house, King Edward spoke.
> 
> The 2 car garage and loft is mine as is the basement!
> And I captured one room for a den too!
> ...


My wife and I have the agreement that if we have the room, that she and I will split a room, her craft book stuff, and my train stuff, lucky for me, she really only needs a table, and a couple of helixes can make my train work around that lol, also, when I saw your post, I immediately thought of this lol


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Since you are just getting started I would like to chime in on track. Is this O27? The video is a great tool but it's hard to tell for sure. I never had much luck with grades and O27. The turn radius is so tight and there is a tendency for a train to want to straiten out on the curve. For best operation I recommend O31 track and keeping the heaviest cars towards the front of the train.


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

I want to thank everyone for all the great suggestions, its been a big help!

ed


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

hey dward. its great to see you got the set. your layout looks like its getting to a good start. a good piece of advice is planning. have the picture in your mind before its laid out. your perspective will change over time as you see new things. when i started i wanted to do something like a lionel postwar era. but as time went on i started seeing other layouts and went for a more prototypical look. check out you tube to see some other peoples work for inspiration. a 4x8 is a decent start. i still run on a single sheet. there's alot you can do depending on your minimum curve and proper planning. i took a birds eye view of mine just so you get the idea.in a sense model railroading is an art.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

I wanted to throw my two cents in also. I only have room for a 4X8 layout at this time. My biggest problem is that I want a bit of everything! Lionel, Marx, various cheap HO's, and if I could fit it, I'd love to have an S gauge loop. This is my first attempt at something permanent. My trains spent too many years packed away. They need to be out! And my grandkids love them! Anyway, here's a picture of what I've squeezed on to my 4X8. Nothing fancy, but good enough for now. Good luck with yours.


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

Update. Found a table but it wasn't everything I wanted so pulled out the power tools and went to work. My intention was to make it 10x5. Long story short I am now ending up with two 8x4 tables in the classic L shape. Now I have to find enough track to cover this doubled area. 

ed


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

For a first layout, especially in the 4x8 size, unless you are real set on it, I would highly recommend not to use any inclined/sections. They will have problems ten fold over track just laid flat on the board.......

Looks like you are having fun though......


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The L shape layout has lots of posibilities. In fact thats exactly what I built! You have bit of room for some inclines as you have 12 feet on one side. Otherwise bwa is right no slopes on a 4 by 8


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

Got the table put together and it is much bigger. Right now the train runs right along the edge but I plan to adjust that as I go. Now ready to start adding terrain and features. Oh and buy more track, used almost everything I had.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Dward said:


> Update. Found a table but it wasn't everything I wanted so pulled out the power tools and went to work. My intention was to make it 10x5. Long story short I am now ending up with two 8x4 tables in the classic L shape. Now I have to find enough track to cover this doubled area.
> 
> ed


Ok gang, how long until he wants more room?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Took me a year! Dward, you need a plan, worst thing I did was going fast! Think about where you want buildings or lights, or inclines, or accessories, or switches! Great start so far! Ill try to find my layout thread so you can see where I effed up!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15832, also maybe get larger diameter curves for the outside track, in case you get something cool you want to run!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cant re edit post without making a mess, video here on this thread for some ideas http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=21091, thats just my layout but I did wish I thought it through better!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Cant re edit post without making a mess, video here on this thread for some ideas http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=21091, thats just my layout but I did wish I thought it through better!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice Dward, now add another 4x8 and make it a U shape. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks ed, when I edit a post on my tablet, phone, it keeps jumping up to the already posted stuff and inserts words etc into the previous stuff.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Thanks ed, when I edit a post on my tablet, phone, it keeps jumping up to the already posted stuff and inserts words etc into the previous stuff.


Your welcome, I don't think I ever saw that video?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Even you miss stuff sometimes! I did blow the whistle this time!


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Looking good.

You can add a triangle to the inside corner to get your track closer to the edge.









Make some plans of what you want.

And paint your plywood before you get any further!


DO WHAT WE SAY, NOT WHAT WE DID


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Or, in your case, what you didn't do...........


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks for the tips! I did paint the plywood, it is a desert setting (area 51 after all). I love the added triangle idea.


ed


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You need some vegetation on one side, for crop circles. Every alien layout needs that!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like there's more space in that room, time to add some extensions!


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## Dward (Jan 7, 2015)

I'm done adding table space for now. Going to concentrate on adding to the table in place until it is so crowded I have to expand.

ed


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