# Body Mounted Couplers



## paxton1958 (Feb 23, 2010)

Has anyone converted Lifelike 60' passenger cars to body mounted couplers? Plan on using Kadee #5 but wondering about the thickness of a shim that would be required and any other problems.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Depending on how sharp your curves are you might want to use a longer shank than #5s.
I don't know what # they are. A kadee height guage would be good to set the coupler
height. Or use one of your other cars that you feel the height is right.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I converted my Athearn 70 foot passenger cars to body mount
Kadee #148 ouplers. The only problem would come if you have 18" or
less radius curves. If you do, a longer shank Kadee could work,
but the corners of the cars can hit each other. Go on the Kadee
website to check their stock #.

I prefer the #148 because it's whisker centering wire attached to the shank
makes assembly of the draft box much easier. #5 and # 148
work equally well. But that #5 brass 'spring' box makes assembly
a little more awkward.

And Magic's advice to get the Kadee Height alignment 'tool' (insulated
version) is very important. One of it's measuring points is the
height of the body, so that you would know in advance the need
for shims or filing and how much. It also verifies knuckle and 'hose' height.

Kadee has over and under Knuckle on shank mount couplers that
can vertically align if you don't want to file or shim.

Don


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Hey I have a question about the kadee coupler gauge... once assembled, my couple seems to have a lot of vertical play, I'd say as much as 1/16" I tried putting one of the red washers in the box on top of the coupler, but it was so tight that the coupler wouldn't move at all. Any suggestions on getting a better fit, or should I just let the coupler hang naturally and assume that's the way it was meant to be used?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

That's definitely too much play. There are different thickness of washers available, and you might try one of those. Or even styrene. One thing though. I seem to recall that the washer is wider than the box. If so,it might be bunching up at the edges and jamming the coupler. This could be solved by trimming the washer slightly.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

So whatever I find to fit, should it go on top of the coupler to keep it pressed to the bottom of the recess (which I would assume), or should I lift it up to press against the top cover?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have noticed the vertical movement of #5s at times but
it hasn't been much of a problem. I try to use #148s because
they do away with that draft box brass spring and the 'top' 
snaps in nicely providing the exact space for free lateral
movement and no 'sags'.

One of my locos has something other than a Kadee knuckle coupler
and I had to use a shim in the draft box to keep it from sagging.
It continued to have free lateral movement tho.

If a shim causes binding, you may want to raise the draft box
so that the coupler, when it sags, is in vertical alignment with
the Kadee height gauge.

Don


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Hey I have a question about the kadee coupler gauge... once assembled, my couple seems to have a lot of vertical play, I'd say as much as 1/16" I tried putting one of the red washers in the box on top of the coupler, but it was so tight that the coupler wouldn't move at all. Any suggestions on getting a better fit, or should I just let the coupler hang naturally and assume that's the way it was meant to be used?



First, I would try to figure out why there is so much vertical play in a properly assembled coupler box. Should not need to use a shim _inside_ the box.

The other thing about saggy couplers is that they tend to raise up when under load, so aligning them a proper height without fixing the vertical play problem isn't going to work.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Shdwdrgn said:


> So whatever I find to fit, should it go on top of the coupler to keep it pressed to the bottom of the recess (which I would assume), or should I lift it up to press against the top cover?


What does your height gauge say? It needs to be at the right height, so that would determine which side you need to shim. If your answer turns out to be both, then I would put a shim between the coupler box and the body, then shim the coupler back up to the correct height.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> What does your height gauge say? It needs to be at the right height, so that would determine which side you need to shim. If your answer turns out to be both, then I would put a shim between the coupler box and the body, then shim the coupler back up to the correct height.


I think you misunderstand... It's the coupler mounted in the height gauge that is having this problem. I took it apart a couple times trying to figure out why there is so much vertical play, but I don't see anything wrong and the cap is nice and flush with the top of the gauge. It came with two different styles of the whisker couplers, but I wonder if the spacing in the gauge was actually made to take the spring piece from a #5 coupler? I might give that a try to see if it makes any difference.

FYI, this is the plastic 'insulated' height gauge, not the metal one.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You're right, I completely misunderstood. Sorry about that.

I have one of the old metal ones, and it's rock steady, no motion at all. 

Do you have an NMRA standards gauge? The hole in the center is for coupler height, so that would help you get it right.


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## paxton1958 (Feb 23, 2010)

DonR said:


> I converted my Athearn 70 foot passenger cars to body mount
> Kadee #148 ouplers. The only problem would come if you have 18" or
> less radius curves. If you do, a longer shank Kadee could work,
> but the corners of the cars can hit each other. Go on the Kadee
> ...


Used the #22 and it solved the problem. No shim required.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have the plastic Kadee height gauge.

I just took mine apart and found that it uses
an ordinary center set #148 whisker coupler. When
the top showing the Kadee trademark is
screwed on properly there is minimal
vertical movement. The rectangular
opening for the coupler does not permit
much movement. That opening should be
no larger than that on any Kadee draft box,
especially the 148.

This is unusual. Could you post a good close
up pic of the gauge showing it as looking at
the end of the coupler toward the rear of the main
body?

Don


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Finally got a chance to take some pictures. I think these two show pretty well. I measured the vertical play in the coupler on the gauge and the end of the knuckle moves up and down nearly a full 1/16", however I also note that there is the same amount of vertical play in the #5 couplers on the car, which are mounted in the standard kadee box and screwed tightly to the car frame.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Maybe the ones on the cars move, but the gage is intended to be a measuring device, therefore play is detrimental to it's proper operation.

The top looks like it's riding high to me. Mine sits flush. Is it possible that you installed it upside down?


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

It's not possible to install upside-down.And I'm not sure what you mean about the top sitting flush -- flush with what? The bottom portion has two rails, and the cap sits on top of those rails. The first picture shows that the cap is sitting solid on top of those rails and can't go down any further. All of the pieces look and feel smooth, so it doesn't seem to be an issue of some excess flashing or anything like that. I also tried dropping a #5 couple and spring-box in there, but that didn't help the clearance either.

I'm thinking a correctly-sized metal shim might be the only answer, and it could be something as simple as a piece of aluminum foil, but otherwise I'm out of ideas.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The top sitting flush with the sides. Don't get testy; we're trying to help. A picture paints a thousand words, but sometimes it generates a thousand questions too. I have tried to install the cover of a coupler box upside down or backwards more times than I care to admit. I've even caught myself installing the coupler upside down. When I try to troubleshoot something, the possibility of my own fat-fingered mistakes is always near the top of the list of things to check.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Shdwdrgn - your height gauge looks dead straight/no droop in the photos, to me anyway.
Compared to yours, my own Kadee height gauge is - on stringent inspection - a little 'droopy'. However, that is not relevant - as I use it for all my own rolling stock and I don't interchange with someone who has a 'less droopy' gauge. Even if I did, I could compensate and bias the adjustment on the high side.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@CTValley - sorry I came across that way, I'm just trying to explain what I'm seeing and understand the questions you are asking. The angle of the photo may be misleading, but when I get down to bench level and look straight across the couplers, they are slightly droopy... however since both the gauge and the body-mounted coupler are drooping the same amount, it may be a null point.

@JNXT - same thing here, I will probably only be running my cars myself, so as long as they all match each other it probably doesn't matter. I think the sticking point for me is that this tool is supposed to set the standards -- but how do you know what the standard is when there's so much slop in the tool?

For comparison, I also have the metal HOn3 coupler gauge, and there appears to be MUCH less free play in the coupler. Perhaps its just the difference between the metal and plastic tools?


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