# Understanding N Turnouts



## Hesh (Dec 11, 2017)

Happy Holidays everyone!

I'm struggling to understand n scale turnouts and just installed my first turnouts but I'm having.... issues.

Currently I'm designing my layout that I plan to build in once I understand more about what the heck I'm doing.... For now it's on three 8' tables. I'm returning to model railroading after schlepping around some N stuff for 25 years. Some of my locomotives and cars are old school with the prior couplers and some are new and recently purchased.

All my track is Kato, most new and that's what I plan on using going forward.

What I am experiencing is when using my #4 turnouts to have a small yard with two side tracks and one main line all side by side the locos do fine with any turnout combination. But the cars are another story. 

The passenger cars seem to do best but most of my freight cars derail entering the turnouts. I suspect that there is something obvious but since I'm new to this and very much a dotard.... about trains your assistance is requested please.

Some of my questions are:

1). Will longer trains be more problematic entering turnouts?
2). Should cars be weighted?
3). Wheels matter I suppose, many of my cars are new micro-trains releases, many are 30 year old Atlas.
4). Are some aftermarket wheels superior to others with Kato track and if so which ones?
5). The goal has always been long trains and long runs. Are shorter trains better (more reliable) with turnouts?
6). Don't have the electronics for the switches hooked up right now and I am only using the manual switches on the turnouts to keep it simple.... until debugged. Could this be part of the problem or in other words do the electronic switch controls hold the directional track more firmly in place?

Sorry for the long post, struggling here. Anything else that you can share with me that may be helpful would be greatly appreciated.

Oh yeah, lastly for now are #6 turnouts more reliable in terms of the geometry than #4 or vice versa AND is one turn out after another asking for trouble?

Many thanks!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There can be a number of reasons you are
experiencing car derails on your turnouts.

It is important that your joint between turnout rail and
track rail be tight and vertically smooth. A fraction of an inch gap is a foot or so
to an N scale wheel. Precise track installation is imperative. Make certain
there is no twist or other misalignment of the track to the turnout rails.

Truck mounted couplers are often a problem especially
backing. Are the derailing cars body or truck mounted?

Yes, weight is a factor, heavier is better. Try putting
a coin on any car that derails. Does that help?

Out of gauge wheels can cause problems and
so can the flanges on the wheels. Plastic wheels
are more likely to derail...metal ones are more
dependable.

Do you notice that specific cars derail while
some never do? Can you see a difference in
weight? Do the trucks swivel freely? Do the]
wheels spin freely?

You mention you have OLD as well as NEWer
cars. Try a train of ONLY newer cars. Does it
still have derail problems? 

I don't know the Kato turnout engineering. But
if the points are not firmly locked the cars can be
derailed. Often the turnout motors provide the lock.

There is a simple test that may help you find the
problems.

Get down and close with a bright light at any turnout where you have derails.

Run a typical train that has derails as slowly as it will
go. When you see a car wheel START to LIFT, STOP.
There is something there causing it. Look closely
to determine that the turnout rails are vertically level.
Are the couplers touching anything? 

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

There isn't any difference between N scale turnouts and those in other scales. The turnout number is the units of length the train travels forward on the diverging leg to separate from the straight leg by one unit of distance. In other words, on a #4 turnout, your train will travel 4" forward while it diverges by one inch.

All else being equal, longer CARS and locomotives require higher turnout numbers. Since it sounds like the shorter cars are having trouble the first thing I would check is weight. In N scale, recommended weight is 1/2 oz plus .15 oz per inch of car length, but you might consider going heavier if you're having tracking problems. Length of the train itself does not matter.

Do you have a standards gauge for N scale? If not, pick one up. Then you can check the wheels of your rolling stock and make sure everything is within spec.


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## Hesh (Dec 11, 2017)

Many thanks Don and CT you both gave me many things to start checking out! Much appreciated!


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

*Switch problems*

First off great your getting back into the hobby. And Kato track imho is the best so far, and as far as number 4 and number 6 turnouts in my experience the 4 axle locos seem to do better on both turnouts, and the 6 axle locos not so good on the shorter turnouts, but that's what I've seen without having to do a lot of fiddling with the points on the turnout, hope this helps. And turnout after turnout is not a problem as yard ladders are the same thing.


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## Hesh (Dec 11, 2017)

Thanks Jim for the assist, much appreciated!

I started using Kato track 30 years ago and once I got used to the looks of it with the roadbed and all I was a fan of the quality. Back then their locomotives ran much better than some of the others that I tried.

Made some progress and thanks everyone for your help.

First my idea of setting up the future layout on three 8' tables created some of my issues. The track slides around and since I am impatient at times I tend to max out some of my trains to try out a problem spot again after making adjustments. Once I traced the track it was moving all over the place..... on the slippery tables.

Next I watched a video about filing an indent for the part of the switches that moves to sit in making for a smoother transition. I did this on two turnout and it improved things a bit too.

I took the idea to use a single car really watching how it navigated the track and found lots of high spots, a misaligned unijoiner and more movement of the track because it's not nailed or glued down. Some masking tape (for now) and small files have greatly improved things. I'm actually able to get a couple fo trains with many cars in and out of the turn outs without derailing.

I have to say that simply running my fingers on the rails too finds lots of spots that can be easily improved.

As such my built in layout may be happening sooner rather than later now that I understand that track can be pretty finicky about any movement, etc.

Thanks again everyone and I have one more question that I will start a new thread for.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*More info*



Hesh said:


> Thanks Jim for the assist, much appreciated!
> 
> I started using Kato track 30 years ago and once I got used to the looks of it with the roadbed and all I was a fan of the quality. Back then their locomotives ran much better than some of the others that I tried.
> 
> ...


Hesh;

Glad to hear things are going better for you! The attached files may help you some. They are not directly concerned with Kato Unitrack turnouts, but may help increase you general knowledge and through that, your overall satisfaction with your layout. 
For instance, the "Improving Atlas turnouts" article is directly concerned with Atlas HO-scale turnouts, not the Kato N-scale ones you are using. However it contains useful information and adjustments to check that apply to all model turnouts, regardless of scale, or brand. It shows the NMRA standards gage being used to check several things on a turnout, and explains why they can cause derailments. One of them is that same notch in the main stock rail, that the point can recess into, that you saw in the video. 
Some other things that may help you are posted throughout our "Beginner's Q&A" section. You might want to look through it.

Good luck, and welcome back;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

View attachment Improving Atlas turnouts.pdf


View attachment Where do I start (revised version).pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


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## Hesh (Dec 11, 2017)

Traction Fan thanks a million for the fantastic response and resources as well. Great stuff and clearly will be a big benefit to me and others.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Glad to help*



Hesh said:


> Traction Fan thanks a million for the fantastic response and resources as well. Great stuff and clearly will be a big benefit to me and others.


Hesh;

You are quite welcome. I'd also like to recommend a book to you. The title is "Introduction to Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It covers many model railroad subjects in clear easy text and photos. It is a very good "first book." for any new model railroader. Check out https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books They published this book, along with many other good ones. 
Spoiler Alert. The last time I checked the Kalmbach site, I was not able to find that title, anymore. Sometimes "new" books come out and are advertised more than the "old" ones. I did see another title, "Getting Started in Model Railroading" also by Jeff Wilson; that seemed to have similar content listed. Either of these books should help you.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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