# A little insight into 'Operations' and switching please.



## johnsl0502 (Dec 2, 2015)

Hi all,

First post, have been lurking for a week or two, seems like a great group of folks. Real beginner question here...

I just retired and my grandsons absolutely love trains, so it seemed a natural to try and see if I could build something we could play with together (they're young now, so read 'play' as 'looking' from their standpoint right now. I have been struggling with trying to plan a layout, in my mind it would have beautiful vistas, like the Pacific Northwest, and long long trains on several levels. However, as I continue to study all of the advice here, articles in the magazines, and books on layouts, I hear a lot around 'switching' and operations as being the fun part of the hobby.I read about clubs where the Operation nights have 4,5 or more folks independently controlling their trains. I never, ever would have pictured a point to point for a layout. I have heard several of you refer to watching trains go around as boring!

So clearly I've missed something! What takes place during a Operations session? Why doesn't backing up a train into a siding get old. What are the train cards I read about somewhere?

Thanks for any insight! As far as my layout plans, I'm thinking of starting on a 4x8 table; I am concerned with all of the advice about the curve radius that the 4 foot dimension demands; hoping I will be alright by picking smaller to middlin loco's. I will start with DCC (even all I know now is how to spell it). I am not interested in historically accurate modeling, whether locomotive #1202 ever traveled in that part of the country etc. However, I probably won't go to the extremes of having an Accela rush past a old steamer on a mining spur.

Looking forward to hearing your advice and opinions, sorry about the longish first post!

John


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Hello, John, and welcome!

Your first post wasn't so bad.

The only thing I think you've missed is that there is no one correct way to do things. What your layout needs to have is PURELY a matter of your own interests. Some people think trains running in a circle is extremely boring, others find it incredibly inconvenient to have to get up and change throttle settings, switches etc. It takes all kinds to make the hobby, and one isn't any better than the other, or any combination in between.

Operations may be simply described thus: if you think about a real train, it doesn't run in a circle (or loop). With rare exceptions, it goes somewhere, does something, and returns back to its starting point. A Norfolk Southern locomotive (or pair, or even more), might go to Lambert's Point in Norfolk, Virginia, pick up 100 empty hoppers, and head up to Appalachian coal country, dropping hoppers at a dozen mines, then return and collect the now-full hoppers and return to Lambert's Point. A mixed freight might start in Chicago and head to Omaha, dropping full cars at some customers and empties at others, picking up full loads and empties (to be filled) at still more.

Switching involves both how the locomotive cuts off from its train (or not, as appropriate) pulls cars from a siding or shoves them in, and rejoins its train to continue. It also involves yard operations, both building trains for dispatching, and breaking down incoming trains for redistribution.

True operations also involves the handling of multiple trains on a single track, avoiding collisions, blockages, etc.

There is also a whole range of options for how realistically you handle these. Does each car have a waybill and each train individual train orders? Is there a "published" timetable? Does one person act as a dispatcher and issue orders on the fly? And so on. You can run it EXACTLY like a real railroad (and the era you're modelling will influence what this looks like), or make concessions to simplicity and the limitations of your layout.

One common model railroading convention is to have hidden "staging" tracks (basically, a yard) at each end of a "point to point" layout, so that trains really do start one place and end up elsewhere.

An operating session is simply a group of people getting together and operating the railroad according to the operating system devised by it's creator (or, in the case of a club, the way the club agrees to run things). These can be a couple of hours, simulating an entire day or weeks worth of train ops, which are reset between sessions, or handled as a continuum, where each successive session starts where the previous one left off.

Obviously, I've just scratched the surface, and others can fill in details I have overlooked or just glossed over.

Again, welcome to the world's greatest hobby!


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Some general concepts, in very brief overviews:

Operations: generally speaking, actually simulating the functions of a railroad on your model. Real trains don't just run in a circle or back and forth. Like CTvalleyRR says, they exist to move cargo from one place to another.

Switching: basically encompassing any picking up or delivery of cars at industries, or the sorting of cars in yards.

Yard switching (Classification): a local train will go out and work the industry tracks, picking up cars. The cars are brought to a yard where they are sorted by destination and sent out on other trains. A car might travel between several different yards and be sorted several times to get from its origin to destination.

Staging: imagine your layout as a stage for a performance, and "staging" tracks are the "wings" of the stage representing connections from your railroad to the rest of the world. Most railroads are not self-contained and connect with each other so that freight can be shipped all across the country.

Interchange: two railroads exchanging cars. This allows a car loaded in New York to be shipped all the way to Los Angeles, although it may be passed off between several different railroads to complete the trip. (For example, it might be carried by CSX from New York to Chicago, and transferred to BNSF to continue to Los Angeles.)


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

PS - It's fine to prefer "railfanning" and watching trains run rather than doing switching, but for those that do like to perform switching, simulating a realistic operation can be very engaging.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

You have asked a very important question that many people overlook. Operations. 

I built my layout mainly for switching. My layout was built as a point to point layout with a yard and engine facility at each end, but I do have the capability to run trains continuously with the use of some hidden staging tracks. I don't do this very often, but when my grand kids come over, they do enjoy that. 

For me an operating session would consist of bringing a train in from hidden staging tracks into one of the two yards. The train would be broken down and a local freight train would be made up to service various industries in the towns on my layout. 

Long trains have to come from somewhere and by also making pick ups from the industries, outgoing trains can be made up when the train returns to the yard and any outgoing cars are made into a train and are run into hidden staging tracks, or can be run around the layout. 

I tried to use industries that could serve other industries on my layout. I can load grain at grain elevators and deliver them to a mill to be made into flour generating outgoing freight. Cattle pens will take the cattle to a meat packing plant and outgoing reefer cars will deliver the beef to points beyond the layout. I do model the transition era so I also have an icing platform for the reefer cars. A log loading deck takes logs to a mill which makes it into lumber. The lumber can head to points beyond the layout, but I also have a lumber yard and furnotire factory on the layout that can lumber delivered to them. 

I am a lone operator as there are no other model railroaders in my area, but I do have a few friends that Live out of state that I visit fairly regularly that belong to a model railroad club that has a huge layout and do enjoy being in their operating sessions. 

These guys know what they are doing. I have been in sessions that were run by two dispatchers, had operation signals and had up to as many as 20 trains running at the same time. The dispatchers will have yard crews make up a long outbound train that will be handed of to an outbound crew who will take to train on a couple of laps around the layout. The layout is so big that a lap can take over 20 minutes. 

There will also be local freight trains switching out the various industries and these operators will have to get their switching done and also be able to keep the main line clear for through trains. 

This can be a quite complex operating session, but the dispatchers really know their jobs and with the use of fully operational signals the session gives you the feeling of working on a real railroad. 

Just remember one thing, it's your railroad and you're the boss and you can make it anything that you want.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

John

You have been welcomed by some mighty fine model layout
operators with some valuable information.

I love switching operations. I use the car card system. I make
up a permanent card for every car on my layout, now nearing 100.
It shows the Type (Box, Cattle, tanker, etc.), the Road Name, (CSX,
Illinois Central, etc.) the road number from the car, it's color and
any other info to identify it.

I then use 'Post it' note paper that temporarily sticks to those. That
shows where to pick up the car, Lumber yard, Meat plant, Grocery
Warehouse, or Yard track location. It also shows where the car
is to be spotted, which would include any industry using the
shipment you picked up, back to a yard, or to make up a train.

I then select about 15 of these car cards. I arrange them 
so that my switcher will make the least # of moves to accomplish
the assignments. You could think of it like playing chess...how
will I get this car to that location and how will it affect my next
move? If you have more than yourself as an operator you can
make a game of it. One prepares the cards, the other does
the switching, then switch places. Lots of competitive fun.

To make a switching operation interesting you want to have a number
of spur tracks that serve one or preferably 2 or more small industries each.
Some of these you would back a car in, others you would push a car
in. To make this possible you need a 'run around track' (passing siding),
so the loco can get either infront of or behind a car. 

I would encourage you to think outside of the 4 X 8 (trap) caused by
the lumber industry's 4 X 8 plywood product. 
If you have the room, plan on a layout that is
not a simple rectangle. It could be a U shape, it could be a long narrow
section with a large 'bulb' at each end to accomodate your return curves.
I personally like the modular bench work. You make a number of wood
frame modules, maybe 2 X 4 or 4 X 4, these are bolted together
to create the end layout shape, but can be unbolted when you want
a different shape.

One important factor in layout design. Unless you want to run only
smaller diesels and 0-6-0 steamers you'll want to keep your curve
radius at 22" or preferably greater.

John, you are going to be amazed at what you can do with ease
if you have a DCC system. In short, a TV remote like controller
talks to each loco individually. The track voltage is always on. So
you can have one loco going forward another backing on the same
track. And it's all done with 2 wires to your track for most layouts.
There is no complex wiring or panel full of switches. You can have
a single track main line with passing sidings as mentioned. With
two trains, one clock wise, one counter clockwise, you will have
fun actually acting as engineer to keep them from colliding. You
can't do that with DC.

Don


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## johnsl0502 (Dec 2, 2015)

A huge Thank You to all who responded! The depth, (and the time you took) was amazing. I now have a much better idea of 'that' side of the hobby. I can't say that I have a clearer picture of my layout plans, but you certainly made me see the value in incorporating the necessary track work (or at least space) to allow for switching operations. I still have time, I'm getting our house ready for sale and then we move to the Rayleigh Durham area. Once there, I'll have a better picture of how much real estate I have to work with.

Thank you once again!


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Discussions about operating methods generally fall into two different categories, which are important to keep separated:

1 - Dispatching/train operation
2 - Car forwarding

Too often a newbie question on a forum comes up with some sort of mix like "I'm using A and how does that affect B" where A is a dispatching system and B is a car forwarding system, and you can select them totally independently.

1 - Dispatching

This is how you move entire trains over the railroad. There are various methods for train dispatching running the gamut from rigorous to casual, including 
- CTC (Centralized Traffic Control, using fully dispatcher controlled signals)
- Timetable (using a schedule and fast clock) with Train Orders to modify or provide additional instructions
- Sequence timetable (using a simplified schedule without a clock in a A then B then C... sort of fashion)
- Track Warrants/Occupancy Clearance System (formal verbal movement orders that are written down and copied)
- some sort of staff system (physical possession of a "staff" or other object gives authority)
- informal verbal instructions from the dispatcher/layout owner
- none (figure it out between yourselves and don't run into each other)

2 - Car forwarding

How an individual car is routed from shipper to receiver. This is independent of the dispatching system.

Popular systems include:
- fully computerized switch list systems
- manual pre-prepared lists
- "Car Cards and Waybills" where each car has a card to represent it, and the shipping info is usually an insert. There are several minor variations on this system.
- simpler systems just switching cars by type, and not specific car numbers
- "tab-on-car" where a coloured tag is placed on the car roof and cars are switched and routed by colour/code
- informal switching with a "one car in, one car out" sort of method: any industry you switch, you put back in the same number of cars you take out.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

There are two schools of thought on the daisy-chaining of industries, or modeling several steps in a multipart process (forest to sawmill to lumeryard, for example) as cv_acr discusses. Neither is right or wrong. It is a matter of prototypical fidelity, and only you can say whether it bothers you or not.

Basically, short hauls are more efficiently served by trucks, so it is fairly unrealistic to model several parts of an industry in close proximity (although there are exceptions). On the other hand, setting up this kind of chain can be very satistfying, and can represent a good compromise between realism and railfanning.

On my layout, most commodities -- coal for the power plant, machine tools for the factories, grapes for the winery, goods for merchants -- arrive on the layout from staging. Others -- brownstone, milk and farm products, some lumber, wine, and finished goods -- originate on the layout and travel outside the modeled area (to staging) for processing. However, I model one entire chain. Wood moves from a forest, to a sawmill, to a lumber yard, then to a furniture factory. Originally, this was done so that my kids would have a simple system of moving from one stop to another, but we find it's still very relevant dropping full loads and picking up empties, and vice versa even if it isn't very realistic. It generates a lot of car traffic.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

CTValleyRR said:


> modeling several steps in a multipart process (forest to sawmill to lumeryard, for example) as cv_acr discusses. Neither is right or wrong.


Actually Chet mentioned that, but I agree with what you say above.

I will have examples of both on my layout. Pulpwood logs will be shipped from a couple of sidings on the layout to a lumber/chip mill on layout, and lumber and woodchips from this mill will be shipped off layout. (Pulpwood will also be shipped from a couple of other sidings south to off-layout staging.)

There is also a short haul of bulk materials (limestone, coke) from a harbour to an ore processing plant, and processed ore is shipped to another location on the same railroad, but that will be off-layout. 

Most other traffic will be to/from off-layout destinations. Some of it from north staging to south staging, and a large amount from a couple of on-layout interchanges with other railroads down to south or north staging.

I'm also modelling a route that runs through large stretches with little or no roads, and the roads that are encountered are unimproved logging roads.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

DonR said:


> I would encourage you to think outside of the 4 X 8 (trap) caused by
> the lumber industry's 4 X 8 plywood product.
> If you have the room, plan on a layout that is
> not a simple rectangle.


Definitely this.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Just one more thing to add. You said you wanted to do this with your grandchildren. I have two boys age 6 & 7 and they love operating the trains slowly and carefully, backing up to pick up cars and taking them to the fiddle yard. They don't just want to run them about at full chat. I think the biggest attraction for them is sound, if I put a loco on which doesn't have it they say ' How do ring the bell or blow the horn?'


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