# Locomotive Pull Power Assessment



## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

So how do we determine the locomotive pull power for HO trains? I got a Bachmann UP 4-4-0 That looks like it can pull more than 3 cars, but I tested it earlier and it has difficulty pulling MORE than 3 cars. Are these locomotives meant for only small trains? I just want to assess the pulling power of each locomotive I have.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

What happens when you put more than three cars on the engine? Any loco ought to pull at least five cars and a 4-4-0 ought to pull ten. Pete


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Even the prototype 4-4-0 wasn't a big steamer and usually pulled only three or four cars,may be a couple more on level grounds.


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## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

norgale said:


> What happens when you put more than three cars on the engine? Any loco ought to pull at least five cars and a 4-4-0 ought to pull ten. Pete


It starts to struggle pulling them. I can tell, because the locomotive slows down and the front lights start flickering or getting weak. I already cleaned the track thoroughly, so the thought of a dirty track is already ruled out.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Two things; get some emery paper (real fine sand paper) and go over the tracks where the engine slows or stops. Also use the same paper lightly on the engine wheels. It sounds like your losing power especially if the lights are flickering or going out. That engine should pull three cars easily. Make sure the cars wheels are turning freely too. pete


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## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

norgale said:


> Two things; get some emery paper (real fine sand paper) and go over the tracks where the engine slows or stops. Also use the same paper lightly on the engine wheels. It sounds like your losing power especially if the lights are flickering or going out. That engine should pull three cars easily. Make sure the cars wheels are turning freely too. pete


I will, but first I probably should test all my locomotives to see if they all present the same problem. I need to rule out the following:

1.Dirty track
2.Dirty Wheels on locomotives
3.Track loop being too long, therefor, locos lose power over distance due to electrical resistance.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You need a Pull Meter, that will tell you what you have.


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## buck71usa (Dec 27, 2011)

Add feeder wires to the track were it slows down maybe its to far from electrical source?


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

If it's the engine truly not having enough power, the lights should stay on, the engine humming and it goes no where (lights wouldn't flicker though)

If it's a lack of weight in the engine, the wheels would spin (enough power, not enough tractive effort)

I'd say either not enough power coming through the tracks or poor conductivity.

My 2-6-2 Prairie starts to slip at 6 cars up a 2.5% grade, but it will pull significantly more on flatland.


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## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

sstlaure said:


> If it's the engine truly not having enough power, the lights should stay on, the engine humming and it goes no where (lights wouldn't flicker though)
> 
> If it's a lack of weight in the engine, the wheels would spin (enough power, not enough tractive effort)
> 
> ...


Well, what also happens to me sometimes with this engine is that the speed control would be at 50% speed, but the engine does not move unless I give it a slight nudge. What do you make of this situation?


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

What is a "pull meter"?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Carl said:


> What is a "pull meter"?


Did you click on the link I provided?










Description from the site:



> *Simply hook the wire to your locomotive's coupler, press the ON button, and turn up the power. Our digital meter displays the pulling force developed by your locomotive in ounces. Add weight to your loco and see how the pull increases. Pull a train with the meter to determine how many cars can be pulled per ounce, then assign your locomotives to pull a train just like a real railroad does*.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

My 4-4-0 has the motor in the tender and a drive shaft running to the loco. If I try to pull more than five cars the torque will lift the tender wheels off of the track and break the circuit. I do not have this problem with my 0-6-0 bachmann Thomas the train.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Southern said:


> My 4-4-0 has the motor in the tender and a drive shaft running to the loco. If I try to pull more than five cars the torque will lift the tender wheels off of the track and break the circuit. I do not have this problem with my 0-6-0 bachmann Thomas the train.


Add weights to the tender and that should improve.


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Sorry, I did not look at the link. Pulling power of a engine is an interesting subject.

It seems to me that the pull meter begs some sort of a standard. Do you use only on a level surface or a incline of 1% or 2% or __% ? Should the engine be free of added weight?, etc.

One of the model train mag's used to (might still do) a measurement of pulling power, but I could never find a clear definition of what it meant.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

*Meter?*



>


Oh geez... THIS I gotta have! I have a fleet of diesels and a gas turbine I'd love to compare!


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Carl said:


> Sorry, I did not look at the link. Pulling power of a engine is an interesting subject.
> 
> It seems to me that the pull meter begs some sort of a standard. Do you use only on a level surface or a incline of 1% or 2% or __% ? Should the engine be free of added weight?, etc.
> 
> One of the model train mag's used to (might still do) a measurement of pulling power, but I could never find a clear definition of what it meant.


You'd measure it on a level surface with your standard engine. Increasing the weight of the engine will increase your available tractive effort assuming you haven't made it so heavy that it stalls out.

On my kids Thomas engines I got them up to 6 cars up the incline by adding some weight to the engine, prior to adding the weight, the wheels would just spin freely on the track as it got into the incline. With the added weight, it provided sufficient downforce to give the drivewheels the traction it needed.

The measurement is called drawbar pull.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you can measure it almost anywhere, but typically you'd start with a level track. If you check the locomotive on a grade, then you can check the consist you plan on pulling up that grade and see if you have sufficient tractive force to do the job. 



Carl said:


> Sorry, I did not look at the link. Pulling power of a engine is an interesting subject.
> 
> It seems to me that the pull meter begs some sort of a standard. Do you use only on a level surface or a incline of 1% or 2% or __% ? Should the engine be free of added weight?, etc.
> 
> One of the model train mag's used to (might still do) a measurement of pulling power, but I could never find a clear definition of what it meant.


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Just for discussion purposes: It would seem that we might want to stand behind a the development of a standard that NMRA could do that would apply to the manufactures of engines that we buy and think you might agree that "pulling power" for a flat surface would be different than "pulling power" for a engine on a slope.

This might be another area for a standard from NMRA: I think adding weight (tungsten or similar) will increase “pulling power”, with the caveat” of too much added weight might well shorten the live the electric motor. Someone else might know have much additional weight can be safely added.

Traction tires might also help in increasing the pulling power. It would be nice to see the engine manufactures have available traction tires for their engines. I am not sure of they all do have traction tires available.

Just my humble opinion.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I'm not sure that NMRA standards would be all that useful here. Lots of things enter into the mix. Traction tires are not a panacea, and they have the same effect as adding weight, too much traction for too little motor will also shorten the life of the motor. Truthfully, I'd rather see MagnaTraction come back for O-scale rather than traction tires, it was a much better solution, just a lot more expensive for them to manufacture.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

De Ja Vue, I was at moms today bringing home some train stuff, one of those meters was on his workbench, i had no idea what it was! Cool I have a pull meter! Rich.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't have one, can you send it to me?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I'll drag it home with next weeks box or boxes of stuff, tell ya what, if it doesn't work i'll send it over ................ so you can repair it!
Test all your engines & then send it back!  Rich.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

*Meter*

Every locomotive I own right now has at least some weight added (keeping the balance precise, of course!) - I am going to order the meter from the provided link and find out who's-who in my roster. That will be worth the $22 right there!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't normally have to add weight to my locomotives, but some of the rolling stock needs extra weight for proper operation. Having all the cars at a proper weight makes a big difference in longer consist's. It also allows you to put the cars where you like, and not have to put the light ones at the end to prevent clothes-lining on curves.


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## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

Carl said:


> Sorry, I did not look at the link. Pulling power of a engine is an interesting subject.
> 
> It seems to me that the pull meter begs some sort of a standard. Do you use only on a level surface or a incline of 1% or 2% or __% ? Should the engine be free of added weight?, etc.
> 
> One of the model train mag's used to (might still do) a measurement of pulling power, but I could never find a clear definition of what it meant.


for right now, i'm using flat surface (carpet)


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## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

Southern said:


> My 4-4-0 has the motor in the tender and a drive shaft running to the loco. If I try to pull more than five cars the torque will lift the tender wheels off of the track and break the circuit. I do not have this problem with my 0-6-0 bachmann Thomas the train.


So it can only pull 5 cars or less. Ok, thank you!


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## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

Question: Do HO engines already come out of the factory with the ideal amount of weight require to pull rolling stock to the best performance or do we need to add weight sometimes?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

jjb727 said:


> Question: Do HO engines already come out of the factory with the ideal amount of weight require to pull rolling stock to the best performance or do we need to add weight sometimes?


I'm sure the answer to this is YES and NO.  I'll bet it depends on the make and model.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

OK...it's only my opinion here,but I've never added any weight to any of my locos and don't think I'll ever do.If one is having a hard time pulling a desired train,I simply add a second one or reduce the size of the load.With DCC and the possibility of matching speeds of different locos,consisting is easier than ever.Anyway,many of us (I too) don't have layouts large enough to pull long trains.

Though adding weight increases pulling power,it also shortens loco's life substantially in my opinon.Every moving part like the worm gears,truck saddles and axle seating bushings,etc...will see much more wear and tear with more weight,no way around this.Unless I'd have a very light puller,I wouldn't do it...but that's me...


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've never had to add power. I had two Lionel U28C Legacy U-Boats pulling 53 cars around, they didn't seem to be breaking a sweat. It was almost nose to tail on the loop! My little MTH Camelback pulled 25 cars around, and that's when I stuck a 4% grade in the middle! I didn't have enough space to make the grade the full length of the train, so it wasn't a true grade test, but it was impressive that it had no problem with the load.

Normally, weighing cars is the ticket to get them all somewhat uniform for better performance with long consist's. Cars that are too light will cause big problems at the front of a long train on the curves. Of course, cars that are too heavy, like some of the diecast hoppers, will be a problem at times as well, even with other normally weighted cars.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Have to appoligize to everyone, I DO NOT have a pull tester, the darn thing was a stop watch! It wasn't even gray it was black, but about the same size & shape! the newbie's an idiot! Sorry,Rich.


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## MarkVIIIMarc (Oct 19, 2012)

What kind of strength measurements is everyone getting? I have some fish weighing "scales" that just might do.


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## MarkVIIIMarc (Oct 19, 2012)

Neat topic btw


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

I weight all my locomotives...almost to the hilt. I've yet to run through a bearing and that's with hundreds of hours of track time on club layouts. Only a good cleaning is needed afterwards but then again, on a modular layout, my locos wheels were usually cleaner after a running session than before. This was due to the gaps in the rails 

About the only thing I've had to do on any of my locos is replace the axle gears and that was due to them splitting from using the wrong lubricant.

I usually run Athearn DD-35's (pre-genesis) with dual can motors. (1) will normally pull my train for me but if I need to I have a B unit and another A unit that I can tack on for fun. Both are also dual powered. 

Alternately, I'll run my Hobbytown locos. I have a pair of FA's that have very large can motors and flywheels - takes up 2/3 of the shell to give you an idea and will coast about 4' from full power to stop. 

Go big or go home I say


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