# The MTF's O Scale Section Compared to Other O Scale Forums



## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

I've stepped away from the hobby a bit, due to other interests and don't spend as much time in it as I used to. But I still make an occasional pass over the now 3 O scale forums that are best known to me which are Brian Vaill's new O Gauge Forum, the OGR, and this one. FWIW, here's what I've observed over the past few weeks.

As pointed out in other threads on this forum, Brian's new O Gauge Forum appears to have an excessive amount of unrealistic back-slapping and glad-handing. Maybe this is typical of a new forum start-up. But why not keep it real? Most hobbyists don't join a model train forum to become "best friends." You just can't do that on an online forum, but they act like they can. Common interests in the hobby? Sure. But best friends because of it? Probably not.

On the first page of the Main O Gauge Board, Brian started 10 of the 40 subjects listed. In his thread, "Thanks for Again Making the OGF #1." Well, number 1 out of what? 

And I don't care if Classic Toy Trains is their "platinum sponsor." This new forum should not be using Union Pacific's shield without permission.

Then there's the OGR. Nothing much really changes over there. Still the same old Gestapo-type moderation, and don't say anything negative about their sponsors' products.

Now this one, in the O scale section only. It's had its ups and downs, but soldiers on and continues to cover a wide array of topics in the hobby with useful threads and posts. True, after awhile (4 years for me on this forum) they get a little repetitious. But at least are still useful to those just coming into the forum or who are new to the hobby. 

Even with GRJ's sometimes "wise guy" responses to certain things, he still does a good overall job as moderator in the O scale section.

So my pick out of the 3 is still this forum. So, "IMUA!" (forever forward)


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I agree with everything you say. That new forum is to say the least rather strange in its self-congratulatory, because we're us we are the best, way, but if it please them, or at least Brian and Emile, them fine. They aren't here, which I prefer to the sturm and drang they caused. 

Regardless of whether it is the "best' O-Gauge forum or not, it is the best for me, which is all I really care about. And the added bonus of all the other scales here too, is just phenomenal. I love that, too.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

i don't read the O gauge section too often, but i found this post entertaining, and surprisingly accurate, lol


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## MattR (Oct 30, 2015)

All they did here was fake backslapping and Brown nosing. It was to the point of being repulsive


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> They aren't here, which I prefer to the sturm and drang they caused.


There's that "sturm and drang" again. Beautiful, Lee!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

MTF is #1 in my book. It has almost everything I look for in a model train forum. News and pics of new products or new acquisitions, technical assistance, scenery ideas, newbies (part of the fun for me is being able to help others on occasion), frank product reviews.

OGR is #2. It has similar features as MTF, but I do feel constrained when I post there. Probably has more people that can offer technical assist, but none better than GRJ. If you want to sell something, OGR is the place due to more traffic.

OGF is #3. I liked Brian and Emile a lot. I enjoyed their posts and I enjoyed seeing them at York. I like them less after the sturm and drang they created here. I sometimes wonder if it was contrived, just to win more folks over to OGF. I joined OGF to maintain contact with some of the guys that left here, but at this point, there aren’t enough people contributing to make it a go to forum for me.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Personally, I don't think we need to compare ourselves to anyone, or any other forum.....MTF is the best there is, in all scales, for all people. :thumbsup:

Period......


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

I have gotten a lot out of my participation in the various forums in spite of the disruptions that are bound to occur. I visit all of them, usually daily.

Because of the OGR forum, I have met a lot of train friends that I wouldn't have met otherwise. I enjoy the photos, technical help, and the buy/sell features. 

This forum appears to be settling back down to what it was before all the ruckus that happened. That is a good thing that has caused me to want to participate again. My reasons for dropping out were misrepresented by one of the departed individuals for their own purposes and rather than drag things out, I chose to find better ways to spend my time.

I'm tempted to join the new one, but haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. I check it to see how things are going though. So far I do not enjoy the tone of things and have no desire to get in the middle of it. I have a low tolerance for some of the childish comments and statements being made.

There seems to be a calm atmosphere here that is conducive to discussing trains and that is a very good thing in my view. If I want drama, I will go somewhere else.

Art


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

LOL, Brian states that they are number one in auto postings. Pretty sure nothing compares on any train forum to Lee's weekly history lesson in autos world wide.

Bill


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

Although I am familiar with a number of German words that describe emotions, for those like me who needed some help with Lee's post, here you are:

Definition of Sturm und Drang. 1 : a late 18th century German literary movement characterized by works containing rousing action and high emotionalism that often deal with the individual's revolt against society. 2 : turmoil.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Chugman said:


> I have gotten a lot out of my participation in the various forums in spite of the disruptions that are bound to occur. I visit all of them, usually daily.
> 
> Because of the OGR forum, I have met a lot of train friends that I wouldn't have met otherwise. I enjoy the photos, technical help, and the buy/sell features.
> 
> ...


Art; first of all it's good to see you back here. I've missed your posts and photos of that beautiful layout of yours.
I'm only on this forum and throughly enjoy it. I do check OGR on the 1st of the month to see updates on Eliot's layout (Bigboy4005). That's the huge layout in Mn. However he hasn't posted in 2 months and I'm wondering if he's ok?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Spence, Eliot had stated a week or so ago that he is having issues with his hands that is slowing things down on the layout and preventing him from posting much.

Bill


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Chugman said:


> I have gotten a lot out of my participation in the various forums in spite of the disruptions that are bound to occur...
> This forum appears to be settling back down to what it was before all the ruckus that happened. That is a good thing that has caused me to want to participate again....
> 
> Art


Welcome back, Art, Missed your postings and feared you'd permanenly left MTF but glad to learn that's not the case.
Hope that others who ceased posting during the turbulent times you stopped will likewise eventually return because not only is this forum informative and helpful, but as you say, it has an atmosphere conducive to our fabulous hobby.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Spence, Eliot had stated a week or so ago that he is having issues with his hands that is slowing things down on the layout and preventing him from posting much.
> 
> Bill


Thanks for the update Bill.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Yellowstone Special said:


> ... new O Gauge Forum appears to have an excessive amount of unrealistic back-slapping and glad-handing. ...
> 
> Even with GRJ's sometimes "wise guy" responses to certain things, ...


A heard a phrase from my consulting days: "Self admiration society."

Sometimes written sarcastic humor is misunderstood without the accompanying vocal inflections.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Millstonemike said:


> A heard a phrase from my consulting days: "Self admiration society."
> 
> Sometimes written sarcastic humor is misunderstood without the accompanying vocal inflections.



Well-stated, Mike. :thumbsup:


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## MattR (Oct 30, 2015)

Spence said:


> Thanks for the update Bill.


Elliot is fine. He just posted an hour ago. I've been to his house. Yes the layout is unreal.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Well my summer hiatus is about over. Time for fall, winter and indoor activities again. Hit the Train Club last weekend, first time in several months, felt good.

Glad to see the self admiration club move on...

Hello again Vern and good to see you back Art!!


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks, guys! It feels good to be back.

Jeff, I missed you at the train show Sunday, but I'm glad you are back again too.

Art


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Millstonemike said:


> A heard a phrase from my consulting days: "Self admiration society."
> 
> Sometimes written sarcastic humor is misunderstood without the accompanying vocal inflections.


We used to call it a mutual admiration society.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Jeff T said:


> Well my summer hiatus is about over. Time for fall, winter and indoor activities again. Hit the Train Club last weekend, first time in several months, felt good.
> 
> Glad to see the self admiration club move on...
> 
> Hello again Vern and good to see you back Art!!


Good way to put it and hello again to you, Jeff.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

I do enjoy the "like" button. That is my one issue with MTF. There are times (daily) I read and appreciate a post. But when many folks have already chimed in to say "great job" or something like that, then it seems silly to add on. Why create several pages of "attaboy"? So I just wanted to b____ about that. Carry on.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Lehigh74 said:


> We used to call it a mutual admiration society.


Well stated Bob. 

Tom


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

Yellowstone Special said:


> I've stepped away from the hobby a bit, due to other interests and don't spend as much time in it as I used to. But I still make an occasional pass over the now 3 O scale forums that are best known to me which are Brian Vaill's new O Gauge Forum, the OGR, and this one. FWIW, here's what I've observed over the past few weeks.
> 
> As pointed out in other threads on this forum, Brian's new O Gauge Forum appears to have an excessive amount of unrealistic back-slapping and glad-handing. Maybe this is typical of a new forum start-up. But why not keep it real? Most hobbyists don't join a model train forum to become "best friends." You just can't do that on an online forum, but they act like they can. Common interests in the hobby? Sure. But best friends because of it? Probably not.
> 
> ...




so true, so true.


can't wait until union pacific files a lawsuit against them and others for using the union pacific logo! it's going to happen!


another thing we have over 21 thousand members they have 120 and have denied 11 people from joining.


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

_"can't wait until union pacific files a lawsuit against them and others for using the union pacific logo! it's going to happen!"_

Along those same lines, I have wondered how Lionel gets away with using to PRR Keystone logo for their Polar RR cars?


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Lehigh74 said:


> We used to call it a mutual admiration society.


Yes, that is the correct phrase.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

Big Jim said:


> I have wondered how Lionel gets away with using to PRR Keystone logo for their Polar RR cars?



maybe Lionel, being a fairly large player in model trains, does have licensing that allows that, or maybe it's just that the PRR doesn't care much ....don't know actually .. never asked them ..


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

I must ask, why the constant bashing, comparing, etc. of other Train Forums and past members always in the negative? I only see and read these here. Why? It seems you all need to constantly be bashing, complaining here, then make excuses why your here. Let it go and get out of the childish mentality this shows. We can all co-exist without the constant childish behavior that constantly comes here on bashing other Forums. GROW UP!


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

bigdodgetrain said:


> so true, so true.
> 
> 
> can't wait until union pacific files a lawsuit against them and others for using the union pacific logo! it's going to happen!
> ...



Wow, denied 11? That's 9 others besides myself and GRJ! So we're among the chosen few, huh? It's impressive we managed to tick them off to the extent they're willing to sacrifice what would be a current 13.31% increase in their membership to, in their mindset, spite us.

Glad seeing you here again, Jeff, now that summer is in our rear view mirror.

As for a lawsuit regarding using Union Pacific's logo, as a believer in karma, I personally don't wish anyone bad luck because "what goes around, comes around" so no need for my input.

Regarding "bashing" and bemoaning OGF, imo, there's no need for that as we have nothing to prove or gain with that mindset, but much to lose. Since they're vastly behind MTF in membership it's OGF who needs to chase after us trying to diminish our membership to increase theirs with "converts," not vice versa.

So let's stay positive, focus on our strengths, and expend energy on this forum's future rather than bemoaning or disparaging those who are chasing after us.

Let us continue being what we've always been and what's made us attractive to model railroaders worldwide.
If anyone here migrates to and ingratiates theirself into another forum that's their choice and certainly okay. It is obvious though that the majority of OGF members simply see OGF as an additional O Gauge forum resource for themselves rather than as a replacement of MTF!
I myself view MTF as a forum, not a competition and for the betterment of our hobby, ourselves, and MTF we can coexist without jealously, animosity, or demeaning each other's decisions and choices!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

ogaugeguy said:


> Wow, denied 11? That's 9 others besides myself and GRJ! So we're among the chosen few, huh? It's impressive that we all managed to tick them off to the extent they're willing to sacrifice what would be a current 13.31% increase in their membership to, in their mindset, spite us.
> 
> Glad seeing you here again, Jeff, now that summer is in our rear view mirror.
> 
> As for a lawsuit regarding using Union Pacific's logo, as a believer in karma, I personally don't wish anyone bad luck because "what goes around, comes around" so no need for my input.


Some of us just aren't welcome there. Apparently we offended them by not supporting their tantrum back in the week before they left.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

First I've heard of rejecting members; seems to prove Lee's earlier point that those fellas want a club rather than a community.

I am no fan of bashing; however, information on how another forum is administered is welcome IMO.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Why do I come here? Only because of Lee's posts, it is the most interesting and informative posts on the Hobby, besides I enjoy them. But the negative posts that constantly come up about people that left, or problems you have had wit other Forums seem to dominate this Forum and come up again and again. It takes away from the seriousness of the hobby.
I've kept my mouth shut ad never brought up a name on someone that almost destroyed my further endeavor into model trains.
Long story short. The last Christmas with my father he bought me a MTH ABA NYC PS1 set. years later when I went into command control I wanted to upgrade this set to keep it running and remember the last gift received from my father. I thought from recommendations and reading the best was Gunrunner (first time I mentioned a name). He said he would upgrade it with ERR boards, couplers and speaker also in the B unit, besides the 2 powered As. We agreed on ERR boards and sound and speaker in B unit for 385.00. Upon receiving units, I noticed no speaker or sound in B unit, but let I pass. Then less then a year, one A unit went dead for no reason, ran good night before, next morning dead. Upon opening saw it was not an ERR installed boards. Opening up the running unit saw also not the agreed and paid for ERR boards. Sill not being knowledgeable in installing, contacted a Hobby Shop who needed to install ERR boards now in both, even in the running unit to match. The cost was 350.00 including shipping. The installer also said in a letter included that whoever said they installed ERR boards cheated me and I should pursue reimbursement. I contacted Gunrunner but he never replied on why he installed non ERR boards rather older Lionel repaired boards. 
Now you know the rest of the story, and all these bashing of people that have left here is minion compared to dishonest workmanship highly praise by 2 other Forums. All in the past I ever did was "someone" considered a top notch person, didn't follow through with his word nor reputation.
So if names can be thrown around, I guess I can come clean also. Not everyone is perfect.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Guys MTF has until recently tried to be above bashing other forums or people. I have friends ion all three forums. This kind of stuff is beneath the tradition of this forum.

Work to make MTF the best that it can be. That is what matters.

And in the spirit of honest disclosure, I was at the dinner last night that was held, the table was full, and everyone had a fun time. One member told me that he held no ill will toward MTF and could not understand the negative comments.

Hopefully enough said. Let’s be positive and concentrate on MTF and trains.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

re: walters post ...
i just don't know .. there is negativety in previous posts, understandable ... and actually nice they are allowed to exist on here ...
second half of the post doesn't make a whole bunch of sense though ... why would you basically leave everything [except for one email] for close to a year when you didn't get what you wanted, or thought you should get ..???
to me anyways, the two parts don't go together at all, lol


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

I use all the forums, and I like each one for different reasons. Of course, I'm a little odd anyway. LOL


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

My question is: Who cares? Who cares what goes on in other forums, or how they run their business?


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

walter said:


> I must ask, why the constant bashing, comparing, etc. of other Train Forums and past members always in the negative? I only see and read these here. Why? It seems you all need to constantly be bashing, complaining here, then make excuses why your here. Let it go and get out of the childish mentality this shows. We can all co-exist without the constant childish behavior that constantly comes here on bashing other Forums. GROW UP!


because that other forum is always posting how they are the number one forum!!!!


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Bill Webb said:


> One member told me that he held no ill will toward MTF and could not understand the negative comments.
> 
> Hopefully enough said. Let’s be positive and concentrate on MTF and trains.


I'll preface this comment, Bill, by assuring all who read it that it's not meant to bash any group. I believe the vast majority of OGF members think and feel the same as the member you mention above, but apparently those OGF folks who approve new members don't share that sentiment. IMO, that's detrimental to OGF's growth.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

walter said:


> I must ask, why the constant bashing, comparing, etc. of other Train Forums and past members always in the negative? I only see and read these here. Why? It seems you all need to constantly be bashing, complaining here, then make excuses why your here. Let it go and get out of the childish mentality this shows. We can all co-exist without the constant childish behavior that constantly comes here on bashing other Forums. GROW UP!


Come on, Walter. Really? You need to understand that there's nothing wrong with comparing O scale train forums. There simply aren't that many to begin with. I noticed that you haven't posted that much here over the past 5 years. Understand that some of us have tried to make this forum better (some more than others), no matter how insignificant our posts over the years, may seem.

After what this O scale section of the forum tolerated from the "club" who left us to form their own forum over what was really a minor, ludicrous issue, was a little hard for some of us to swallow, after having interacted with them on this forum for several years.

So I wouldn't categorize us as bashing and complaining with childish behavior. 

Regarding your 2nd post, I'm sorry for what you had to go through with that issue. Maybe you should take it up with GRJ personally.

And Bill Webb: "This kind of stuff is beneath the tradition of this forum . . . " What kind of stuff? What some have done in this thread is merely explain what transpired, how they were treated, and the experiences they had. I'm sorry that their straightforwardness and being realistic seems to disagree with you.

Then you state, "Work to make MTF the best that it can be. That's what matters." Well, yes it is, and that's what many of us have been trying to do.

I'm glad you enjoyed your O Gauge Forum dinner as one of its new members last night.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I think this thread has run it's course, with some individuals stating their position, with some old members leaving, for their own reasons. We won't rehash any of it again, and let things get back to normal. Therefore, this thread will be closed. For those who enjoy being a part of other forums, for whatever reason, enjoy them. If the MTF is what you find best, than let yourself enjoy this forum, and stop bashing the other forums.


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