# Lionel 736 restoration



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

I was thinking of sending a locomotive out for a complete restoration. It runs great. I know its crazy but I would love to make it look like it just came out of Lionels factory. I know I would never resell the train. My kids are already picking the trains they want later on. The two questions I have is (1) Is it really worth it ? & (2) Are there any good places to have it done ? Thirdly, what are your opinions on this matter. Thanks for the advice. Ps. The locomotive is a lionel 736.


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I usually don't like the idea of repainting original pieces. Part of their charm to most collectors are the battle scars they've received over the years. There are a few cases in which I'd consider it. Pictures would help us give you more feedback. If it's just a few minor paint chips, I wouldn't. Even a repainted one will get those again easily. If it's in really sad shape, then it probably couldn't hurt. If you can figure out how to post pictures, that would help out.


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

I will take some photos and try to post them tonight.


----------



## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

The bottom line is it's your call. I personally wouldn't do it.

While looking brand new sounds good I have found that it's just not the same old train.

I had the 736 with the 2046W whistling tender (ca. 1959). Like the Fanner 50 cap gun is to many of us; this is perhaps the classic "Baby Boomer" electric train toy. For that reason they usually sell very well on ebay.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I'll chime in with my opinion on the other end of the spectrum. I've become addicted to finding old (mostly prewar) Lionel locos/tenders in horrible shape. I fix the motors, then fully strip and repaint the shell, polish the trim, etc. Nice end results.

Are they "purist" restorations. No. Do they make me happy? Yes.

And ultimately, that (one way or the other) is what should drive your thinking.

If you do decide to restore, we can probably help steer you in some direction. A lot of "what's required" depends upon how intact (though dinged), or how far gone the shell, wheels, drive rods, etc. all are.

Pics would help the discussion.

Regards,

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm with TJ here I think. I like them to look nice. While a few chips on an old one doesn't warrant refinishing, if it's really beat up, you might as well make it whole.


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

I appreciate all the advice. I have attempting to upload pics but keep getting a failure message. I sent a e-mail to the site asking for help. I LOVE the look of a old train. Its like battle scars. Rich in history & memories. Like Patina on a antique. Thats why I'm torn.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

While a few battle scars are almost inevitable on many old Lionel items, I don't like mine to look like they lost the war. As suggested in a thread here about cleaning up a locomotive, I have used a black Sharpie on paint chips on my 2018 and 2037, and the difference is gratifying. You might try this technique on a place or two, let it air dry good, and see what you think about the results. 
It seems a less drastic solution than touching up with black paint and a very small brush.
Looking forward to seeing pictures of your 736; they're very desirable in almost any condition as long as they run. Even nonrunning ones have some residual value, because they can usually be brought back to running condition. It often just takes the right parts ($), or if you're lucky, a careful cleaning and lubrication.


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

*Finally got my 736 Pictures posted !*

I finally got my pictures posted of the 736. I'm still torn about having it restored or not. Please tell me what you think. Thanks Steve


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmm... Tough decision. It actually looks pretty good. I'd be tempted to really clean it up and run it.


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

Any suggestions on how to clean it up? I know someone mentioned using a sharpie marker for the bare spots. What about a light oil on the shell with a micro fiber cloth?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There are lots of different ways to clean them up. I use a Sharpie on the nicks, really makes a difference. 

I think I'd first remove the shell and clean it with warm water and mild dishwashing soap to get any residual dirt off. Then I'd use the Sharpie on the nicks. I'm sure there'll be a ton of recommendations of other cleaning techniques.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto. Warm water/soap wash of the shell, thorough dry, Sharpie on the nicks. Let the Sharpie dabs sit for a few days, then rub them with your finger to help dull/kill the purple sheen that occurs with a Sharpie.

After that, you might dry a light spritz / soft-towel rubdown with ArmorAll. I've used that to add a nice luster to my postwar locos.

The mechanics of the loco (wheels, drive rods) appear to be in excellent shape. The cowcatcher is fully intact, the green "marker light jewels" are both there. Overall, this old girl is in pretty good shape, and certainly carries her charm quite nicely.

I'd hold off any any strip/repaint, the try the suggestion here and in the posts above.

Let us know if you need help removing the motor, servicing the motor, etc.

Tech specs / diagrams for the 736 ... click on each page icon to open as indiidual-sheet pdf ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/736.htm

Regards,

TJ


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I would touch it up with a black magic marker. I have done it to several of mine that were not worth repainting, and they look pretty good.


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Yeah, I'd just go with the sharpie on some of the chips (I usually leave some for some character  ). If you wash the shell, be careful around the numbering. It's easy to scrub off accidentally, even if you're careful.


----------



## Wabashbud (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm with all of the above. After repainting and decaling pre and post war models I would rather see the 736 cleaned and serviced rather than painted. Save the painting for the really bad shape engines. Yours looks great, just clean it up.

Bud


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm leaning towards a good cleaning and a sharpie. I would like to also say that you guys are are great and I have learned so much from you all. I hope you guys don't mind a newbie posting here because i truely love trains and this sight.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If newbie's don't post, the site dies, so we don't mind. 

Post away! :laugh:


----------



## Lehigh Valley Lines (May 12, 2011)

I know I've read that some use Pledge on a towel and rub the shell to give it a protective coating and sheen. 

Do you think it is possible to sharpie the spots and then use Pledge? Or would Pledge not be a good idea over a sharpie? Others got matching paint and painted the chips and then used Pledge.

Have any of you ever used Pledge?

Note: the others did say that it was the regular and NOT lemon scented.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd do the Sharpie first, the polish may not allow it to adhere as well. The worse thing that can happen is the Pledge will remove the Sharpie. It's also soluble in alcohol if you want to remove it and start over in a spot.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Steve R said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm leaning towards a good cleaning and a sharpie. I would like to also say that you guys are are great and I have learned so much from you all. I hope you guys don't mind a newbie posting here because i truely love trains and this sight.


Unless it is the picture the front of the boiler looks kind of funky.
Is that the picture or did someone try to fix it up with something?

The rest looks great Just clean it up some and leave the battle scars as is. It doesn't look bad at all.

If the front of the boiler is messed up you can easily repaint it.


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

No... It's the boiler front. I'm going to hit it with a sharpie. The top was done with a marker but was not rubbed in yet. I also had a bit of trouble with the screw hole being stripped. I tried J B weld and let it sit over night but it did not hold well. I actually hit the hole with a soldering iron and melted the metal. So I melted some solder and refilled the hole. I sanded the tab smooth and redrilled the hole with a bit slightly smaller that the screw. I was then able to rethread the hole with the screw. So far its holding up well. I still ordered a new boiler front from Olsen's. I'm still going to dress the front up better with a sharpie and see what happens.


----------



## stevetil (Sep 6, 2011)

Heh, it already looks better than my 736.
And I love mine exactly as is!
But then, I want to replace the e-unit
with a TMCC thingy.
But I'm a crazy old guy anyway!


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

Thats funny because I have thought about TMCC with my 2055.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I mentioned ArmorAll, but I have read from many people that Pledge will work nicely, too.

TJ


----------



## Lehigh Valley Lines (May 12, 2011)

I thought i remember reading that armorall leaves it greasy and all the dust and dirt will stick to it. When I had my Trans Am I used to use button the interior and I remember I always hated that greasy film it left. 

TJ do you use Armorall on your trains? If so did you notice the greasy or sticky feeling?


----------



## steam chaser (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Hmm... Tough decision. It actually looks pretty good. I'd be tempted to really clean it up and run it.


 I agree with john,I personally wouldn't get to carried away with it.very nice:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

stevetil said:


> Heh, it already looks better than my 736.
> And I love mine exactly as is!
> But then, I want to replace the e-unit
> with a TMCC thingy.
> But I'm a crazy old guy anyway!





Steve R said:


> Thats funny because I have thought about TMCC with my 2055.


I'm going to put TMCC in my 2026 that I created my Fort Knox Express from, I have the parts, just have to do the work.  If you get the itch, drop a line in the O-scale forum and we'll talk about the details.


----------



## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

I agree with everyone. This engine paint/exterior is in too good of shape to repaint. Though I've never touched up an engine with an sharpie. I've always used a fine detailing air brush.

- Jason


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

PW_Lionel_Collector said:


> I agree with everyone. This engine paint/exterior is in too good of shape to repaint. Though I've never touched up an engine with an sharpie. I've always used a fine detailing air brush.
> 
> - Jason


Not everyone has an airbrush or knows how to use it.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

You're right about the airbrush, John. The sharpie used in good lighting can yield surprisingly good results - dirt cheap, low tech and very effective.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

An airbrush is in my future, but right now I use the Sharpie.  Not to mention that if all you want to do is a little touchup, loading up the airbrush, doing the work, then cleaning up everything is a lot of work for a couple of nicks.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> An airbrush is in my future, but right now I use the Sharpie.  Not to mention that if all you want to do is a little touchup, loading up the airbrush, doing the work, then cleaning up everything is a lot of work for a couple of nicks.



I thought you had one already, you got the compressor right?

What are you going to do air brush some graffiti on all your new trains?
Or weather them up some?


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Lehigh Valley Lines said:


> TJ do you use Armorall on your trains? If so did you notice the greasy or sticky feeling?


I've only used ArmorAll on a couple of postwar, plastic-shell Scout locos. Worked OK ... after applying the ArmorAll, I dried them off and buffed them with a very dry/clean microfiber towel. I don't think there was any sticky feeling.

That said, I would NOT attempt the ArmorAll on any of my prewar tinplate stuff.

I have heard (but never tried) that Pledge works well on plastic shells.

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> I thought you had one already, you got the compressor right?
> 
> What are you going to do air brush some graffiti on all your new trains?
> Or weather them up some?


I'm shopping for a decent airbrush that's not too expensive. I don't want one that's a PITA to clean up after the fact. I might try my hand at weathering, I doubt I'll be putting graffiti on my stuff.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm shopping for a decent airbrush that's not too expensive. I don't want one that's a PITA to clean up after the fact. I might try my hand at weathering, I doubt I'll be putting graffiti on my stuff.


Somehow I can't see you weathering up your nice new trains.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was thinking more along the lines of buildings and the like.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

Getting back to, heaven forbid, the actual original subject of this thread, I received a rather heavy package today, via USPS. It was a Lionel 736, with no tender. Looks very clean, but not quite like new. I'll lube carefully using 5W-20, and try to track test it on the club layout in the next day or so. It's really heavy, so it should be the great puller that it's reputed to be. Looks like true O scale in size, and has the three cab window, cast trailing truck characteristic of an earlier run. Track test results in a few days. Bill


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

Congrats on the new addition. I just cleaned mine really well. She is a beast when pulling. I dont know what else to say but I love Her.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

Thank you, Steve. I have wanted a 736 off and on for 30 years or so, and finally got around to it. I guess persistence - or something - pays off. I'll see if serious cleaning seems to be in order, and I may call on you for disassembly and cleaning advice if that turns out to be the case.
Thank goodness there are many people with serious knowledge and expertise on this forum who are willing to share with others.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The best thing to do is start another thread and use plenty of pictures.
SHow mw how to take it apart.


----------



## lionellines (May 18, 2011)

The 726/736 is very easy to take apart to work on. One thing I'd caution you about - if the trains runs without any jamming of the gears, don't remove the motor from the chassis. It can be cleaned and tuned just fine without needing to remove it, but once removed, some people have a hard time getting them meshed right with the gears on the drive wheel's axle. Same goes for the 671/681 motor.


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

lionellines said:


> The 726/736 is very easy to take apart to work on. One thing I'd caution you about - if the trains runs without any jamming of the gears, don't remove the motor from the chassis. It can be cleaned and tuned just fine without needing to remove it, but once removed, some people have a hard time getting them meshed right with the gears on the drive wheel's axle. Same goes for the 671/681 motor.


I've never had issues with mine, just make sure it's sitting on the mounting pins nice and straight and that the screws are pretty tight (don't strip them of course). 

It is much easier to work on the motor and clean the old grease out of the gears with the motor removed. My motor had a binding problem that turned out to be all the old grease that had been put inside the "oil" hole on top of the casting had frozen up. I had to take the motor apart and use a Q-Tip to clean all the gunk out of it. Runs beautifully now of course.


----------



## dbyll (Oct 22, 2011)

Please do not restore other than clean and lube. That is to nice of a loco. Also you will lower the value. Just my opinion. Gary


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I'm going to keep it as it is. I love the way it looks and runs to much to change anything.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

I had an opportunity today to track-test my new-to-me 736 locomotive. I had cleaned all the wheel treads and carefully lubed axles, etc. with 5W-20 oil. It ran very well on the Gargraves phantom rail track, quietly, and seemed to have plenty of power to pull the seven cars coupled behind it. I don't have any smoke pills to test the smoke unit, but it is supposed to work well.
With that test done, I want to get it in good light and touch up a few places with a sharpie. So far, so good; I'm really pleased with the locomotive. Seems that some eBay purchases can have happy results. Better not brag too soon, though.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Did you remove the shell and oil the motor and worm gear?


----------



## Steve R (Jan 3, 2011)

Servoguy, I sent you a message. I apologize because it should have been in the thread.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I just read it. I will let you put it in the thread.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

No servoguy, I haven't removed the shell and oiled the motor and worm gear. This test was just a preliminary test to see if it ran at all. It ran fine and pulled well, with no anomalous noises. I have just replaced the missing green faceted jewels on the sides of the marker lights. I have also done some careful work with a sharpie.
I will soon take the shell off and have a look at the motor, etc. Where is a good starting place for this procedure? I'd like to do it right and not have extra parts when it's reassembled.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

There are 3 screws that hold the shell on, two in front underneath, and one on top near the rear. Leave all the rods attached to the wheels and crossheads. No need to remove them.

There should be a cover held by 2 screws that covers the worm and spur gear. After you remove it, you can remove the motor if necessary. There is an oil hole in the top of the motor housing. I recommend you oil everything with 5W-20 motor oil. There is some literature in one of the stickies that shows all the points to lube.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

Thank you, Servoguy, for your detailed info about getting inside the mechanism of the 736. Sounds like procedures I can follow. I'm also going to heed Lionellines' advice about not dismounting the motor if at all possible. I'll clean carefully as much as I can without doing so. And I am the proud possessor of a quart of 5W-20 motor oil, which I calculate should last me until, oh, about 2050. I fashioned a high tech oil applicator from a rather low tech paper clip that works just fine. So, it looks like I'm ready to proceed - in good daylight. Sincere thanks to all for your very helpful advice.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

All systems set for blastoff.
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-3/4-1/2-1/4-1/8-1/16......go-go-go, let us know when we have lift off.

Don't forget goggles & gloves. Safety first, please remove all kids & pets from the immediate area.

Oil is a hazardous substance, do you have an MSDS sheet?


WHERES THE PICTURES?


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

Heh heh. 
Ed, I was recently given a very old looking KW transformer. It is complete (with all new knobs), and the power cord is a replacement one. When I plug it in and see if it seems to work, I may need the safety precautions that you have so kindly outlined above. I'll let you know the results of the test - if I'm still on the planet.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd do one thing before using the transformer. Take the shell off and check the condition of the rollers. If they're worn down to the arms, the arms will scratch the transformer secondary windings and soon destroy the transformer. It's very important that the rollers roll, not slide.


----------



## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

A little late to the party, but count me in with those suggesting you leave it just as it is. It is a real beauty. From your original ppost, before you posted the pix, I was expecting a real basket case. Not so, that engine is perfect as-is. Clean and lube the mechanical bits and it is ready for another 50 years.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

One thing to be aware of re the Sharpie. The Sharpie will initially have a slight purple sheen in some light. This disappears with time, but I can't tell you exactly how long it takes.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you rub the Sharpie work with your finger, the oils in your skin do an excellent job of removing a lot of the purple sheen, it's like magic.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I also use my finger to blend colored sharpies to make the touch up less conspicuous. Let the sharpie dry for a few seconds before you rub it.


----------



## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

Nikola, I believe you meant to post your remarks on another thread, Lionel 736, by Steve R. He posted pictures of his 736 and I believe your comments pertain to his very nice locomotive. You gave him good advice.
The sharpie comments are also good advice; I have done these things to a couple of my Lionels and they look much better. It's a lot easier than using model paint for touch-ups.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

rrbill said:


> Nikola, I believe you meant to post your remarks on another thread, Lionel 736, by Steve R. He posted pictures of his 736 and I believe your comments pertain to his very nice locomotive. You gave him good advice.
> The sharpie comments are also good advice; I have done these things to a couple of my Lionels and they look much better. It's a lot easier than using model paint for touch-ups.


This is Steve R's thread on his 736.

You highjacked it?

Edit,

Unless someone (MOD?) merged the threads together to confuse us.


----------



## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Steve R said:


> I finally got my pictures posted of the 736. I'm still torn about having it restored or not. Please tell me what you think. Thanks Steve


I've been gone from here for a while but if you haven't restored it yet I'd say don't. It has a nice vintage look and all toys lose value once repainted, etc. This train will probably drop 1/2 in value if painted. 

Just my thoughts.


----------

