# Total newbie with questions



## Jus (Dec 26, 2013)

I haven't bought anything yet and may not for a while. Don't know yet. I have some broad questions about model trains in general I was curious about before I get too far into it.

My greatest interest is long freight trains. I don't get to see many trains at all in Vermont but when I do it's a looong freight train and it's just so awesome to watch it go by. If I do pursue this hobby that's what I will focus on. 

Just how powerful are model trains? I'm thinking either N or HO scale. My layout space is iffy so its going to take time to develop my desirable layout. Will I be able to make a freight train really long? Can multiple locomotives be coupled together to pull long trains(if one isn't powerful enough?) with a simple DC system? This is what I want to focus on. The scale scenery and terrain will come much later. I'm more interested in the train itself for now.

I guess it's sounding like N is for me, but are the locomotives capable of what I want to do? I have read this is the best scale for longer trains but at the same time will they hold up? I've even thought about actually making it useful by transporting small items from one end of my house to the other some day :laugh: Okay well at least weigh down the cars with some weight so the whole thing would actually be heavy (for its size) just like a real train..

Would HO locomotives stand up better to abuse? The N scale ones just seem so frail and dainty...


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm not a N scale guy but they can complete your demands and are space friendly 

If you are clumsy and have sausages for fingers then ho might be a better option.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

A club layout is a great place for this because there is space and cars to spare, you can just add club cars 'till they run out. I often do pulling matches still...my 4-8-8-2 Cab-forward is good for 35 cars on a 1.75% grade and I never could find the limit of my matched pair of Athearn C44-9s because I ran out of cars at 35. One of the members rated his foursome of Kato U-boats at 68 before he ran out of cars. It's more than just couple-and-go, you have to handle the throttle right because coupler slack in trains that long can run an 1 1/2" - 2"...nothing like blowing apart a Kadee coupler pulling up grade...:thumbsup:

This video is only 26 cars but you get the idea...


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

Hi there!
If you want long freight trains, n scale is definately a good idea, oo trains take up alot of room!
They are a bit delicate you just have to be very gentle!
You can couple engine together, I have done it with oo scale but never N scale, probably the same though! You can even buy trains that paired to run with each other ( I have one, it is slow but pulls alot
That said, the motors are pretty strong in both scales, so you don't really need multiple engines unless you have big gradients/slopes on the layout

Might be a good idea to start with something small to get a feel with what you want, and then go with a layout etc. It's also worth seeing if there are any train clubs near you, it's a great chance to run your trains on a layout bigger than anything you could fit in your house
Have fun!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I have a little N layout that was given to me, here is a crummy I video took, I am sure I could have added a lot more cars to it. But I have no grade to pull and the second engine I added to the one is just for looks, though it runs I could pull this train with just one. 

One locomotive could probably pull this train with cars from the locomotive all the way to the front of the locomotive. Head to tail. If your planning a grade into the layout then that is a different story.

If you want real long trains I would say N is the way to go. You can fit a lot of stuff on a N table. If you have the room you could do it in HO also. But you would need twice the room.

This little table is around 32" x 47" if I remember correctly. I am too lazy to go and remeasure it right now, got to have my coffee first.:smokin:


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

This video show the slack that shay was talking about.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Love those step lights!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've seen N-scale modular layouts with over 100 cars in a single consist at almost every show I see N-scale at. For routinely running long trains, N-scale seems to be the choice. 

I know while we can do that in O-scale, it takes a LOT of space, and also some "tuning" of the car mix to keep the couplers together, and also avoid stringlining on the curves.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Jus said:


> I haven't bought anything yet and may not for a while. Don't know yet. I have some broad questions about model trains in general I was curious about before I get too far into it.
> 
> My greatest interest is long freight trains. I don't get to see many trains at all in Vermont but when I do it's a looong freight train and it's just so awesome to watch it go by. If I do pursue this hobby that's what I will focus on.
> 
> ...


So far no one has answered your question about consisting more than one loco
to pull a long train. Yes, you can do it in DC provided the locos run the same
speed. But, you can do it much more smoothly with DCC. I regularly run
2 trains each with 2 locos...and sometimes a 3rd with 2 locos joins in.

If you have the space you should go HO. As you note, those N locos are
tiny. Tiny means difficult to work on. Neither is going to be in good shape
if abused. They are delicate machines and must be handled carefully.

Do peruse the N and HO forums, as well as the DCC and beginners
Forums. You'll find years of modelling experience unfolding before
your eyes. Get as much knowledge as possible before you go out
to buy.

Don


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

Absolutely- if you can have oo gauge (and that means you don't get in as much as N) I think you should. Both are delicate, but N even more so. Also, you'll generally find alot more stuff for oo available, not to say you can't buy things for N scale, you certainly can, but it is less common than oo and also there is loads of 2nd hand stuff you can find for oo gauge. They are also easier to repair
N gauge is great, but depending on what you are trying to do it might be easier to start with oo


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## singletrack100 (Dec 18, 2013)

Hi Jus, and wlecome to the hobby and forum! Everyone so far has covered some good considerations. One thing I didn't see that may be worth mentioning is to also consider the era or time frame you will model. Earlier steam didn't have trains as long as some of todays diesel consists though later steam was moving some pretty impressive trains. In conjuction with this is what type of country or terrain you will operate.

Clumsiness has been mentioned; I will also throw out aging. I've seen on several forums where modelers that were doing N aged and finally had to move to HO due to dexterity or sight issues.

Availability- I haven't followed todays N offerings, but from what I gather, though much improved over years gone by, HO still far outweighs N in what is available on the market.

Power- when considering consisting of two or more loco's, put consideration into your controller/power pack/transformer (whatever name you refer to it). The cheaper train set ones normally don't put out enough power to enjoyably and reliably power two or more, especially with grades.

I model HO, and in hindsight, if I were to do it again, I would probably have done an N layout in my space as I, like you, like long freights. My layout has some severe grades (3+%), and while I can stilll lash up 35 freights + caboose to two older Mantua's (a lot of power draw there), it looks rather silly on the layout. The only way to avoid that at that point is to focus on particular scenes as the train rolls by.

Hope this helps, and as always, Happy RR'ing!

Duane


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## Jus (Dec 26, 2013)

I appreciate all the responses. Very helpful and gets the gears in my head turning. :thumbsup:

I've even gotten my wife involved. She's going to jump in with me. She's going to probably take charge with the landscaping and scenery when we get our first layout going. 

Yesterday we bought a Bachmann N scale starter set. This toy/hobby store about 35 miles away that we both already like happens to have a pretty decent selection of train stuff and the staff appears to be pretty knowledgable. Has already been a BIG help. 

Now the real fun begins.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Hi Jus, I have already seen some very good answers on this forum, to your questions. So I won't repeat what others have already said. I'll add my own two cents. 

Some model trains are very powerful pullers, and are able to pull 100 freight cars alone by itself. While some others can just barely move themselves with nothing else attached. For example some very light weight and tiny switchers, will only be capable to pull a maximum of between 2 and 5 freight cars, on straight and level track. Same with the prototype by the way. 

And there are some excellent pullers, which are usually very heavy, and a handful have traction tires to improve the traction even more. Generally speaking, the best pullers (either model or prototype, does not matter) are very heavy and have strong motors. It's the sheer weight which allows the locomotive to pull the freight cars. When some traction tires are added (which are basically rubber bands on the wheel treads), it will greatly improve the pulling power, at some loss of electrical contact with the track. Most of the modern N and HO scale model locomotives sold in North America, do not include traction tires. Only a handful anymore. It's more common in the Lionel 3 rail type trains here. By the way, many of the HO scale trains from European manufacturers (such as Marklin, Trix, Roco, etc) are equipped with traction tires. The same is true of many of the N scale trains made for the Japanese home market (such as Kato, Tomix, MicroAce, etc), many have traction tires. But it's quite rare in North America now. 

When I first got into the hobby many years ago, like many kids, I had cheap HO trains my dad bought for me. They were a lot of fun, and I have fond memories to this day. But truth be told, my equipment was not very powerful. They were the toys made in the 1970's, such as Bachmann and AHM with the pancake power. They were all pretty lightweight, had weak motors, and poor electrical pickup. But anyway I had fun. I also had an inexpensive power pack, barely able to power my trains.

Nowadays I have two very nice MRC Tech 2 power packs, and they work great for me. They are strong, with a lot of reserve power, and have a very smooth speed control. I can easily control 3 or 4 average (modern) HO scale locomotives, all running together at the same time, without any overheating. The much smaller Tyco transformer I had it the past, will not be able to do that. I remember, because I tried to do that in the past. It would start to overheat, plus each train would go slower, because it was not a power power pack. It could not handle the load, I wanted to give it. Either I had to lower the load (only operate one loco at a time), OR get a more powerful power pack. 

Also nowadays I'm able to run better locomotives, then what I had as a kid. But at the time, I had no choice.

I wrote the information below at a different model train forum (same ID), so I'll just copy and past my remarks, to save some typing. 

Yes, a more powerful transformer will you give more power, to pull more. Each single locomotive will only draw as much energy as it needs to run, and nothing more. If you have a very efficient locomotive, powered with a high quality electric motor, (like a core-less 7 pole motor), it will use very little energy to move. With a more typical locomotive, it will need more energy to get the motor spinning. It has to fight the resistance in the motor and gearing, before it will start to spin. A cheap motor has more resistance to spinning. As long as your transformer has enough power to deal with the load from the train, it will not overheat prematurely. It will not be smooth with a low quality power pack, because cheap power packs have a smaller effective range in their speed control. The dial might only move 90 degrees on a cheap controller, compared to around 270 degrees on a high quality controller. Remember a circle is 360 degrees all the way around. That larger range in degrees, will give you finer control between the zero and 12 volts, that HO trains are designed to operate with. Another nice feature with a higher quality power pack, the the internals inside (such as resistors, capacitors, and the speed controller [rheostat or potentiometer], etc) will be of higher quality to handle more heat before melting down. A higher quality power pack usually has a smoother speed controller, and more reserve power.

A more efficient motor draws less amps and wattage, compared to a lower quality motor. But the motor (any motor) will only draw, what it actually needs to operate, and nothing more. Power packs are rated in vottage (such as 12 volts), amperage (such as 1 amp), and can also be rated in wattage (like a 90 watt Lionel transformer). A very modern and efficient motor might only draw one tenth of an amp, to operate at a certain sped; while an older and less efficient electric motor might need a full amp, to run at the same speed. The power pack will deliver the needed power (such as 1 amps) to that motor -- but only what the locomotive is actually drawing from the power pack.

Let's say for instance, your power pack was designed to deliver 2 full amps (without overheating). If your locomotive needs one amp to run, then you can run two identical locomotives, on that particular power pack. If instead your locomotive only needs half an amp to operate, then you can run 4 identical locomotives together, off that single power pack.

I hope you understand my explanation.

You can also lower the energy needs of a locomotive, by giving it a full tuneup. Cleaning out all the gunk inside such as dried out lubrication, cat hair, carpet fuzz, rust, you get the idea. Once everything is clean inside, and you have inspected all the gears for cracks, etc, and cleaned all the wheels -- then you can put fresh lubrication in the loco. Just a small amount of lubrication goes a long way. That will help to make your locomotive draw less amps, thereby making it more efficient.

Another more complicated and expensive choice, is to re-motor (and/or re-gear) the locomotive.

Naturally as you already know, you operate a DC train with a DC power pack (like the vast majority of N and HO scales), and a AC powered 3-rail Lionel (Lionel O scale) needs an AC transformer to function.

In closing, I happen to like the power packs made by MRC (Model Rectifier Corporation). They usually make a quality product. But there are other good quality power packs, made from other manufacturers also.

Hope that helps.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

In both N and HO you can double/triple/quadruple head locomotives...as stated, as long as they are the same speed. Just make sure your power supply has enough amps to support the number of locomotives (and powered accessories) you want to run.

Both scales will support long freight drags. Just make sure your cars are properly weighted, couplers are all the same height (read: invest in a Kadee coupler height gauge), and check the wheels to make sure they are all in gauge (read: invest in a NMRA wheel gauge).

When you say abuse, what are you referring to? Young children playing with them? If so, you might want to forgo the long drags and invest in Lionel/Williams/MTH O scale. My son has dropped his Williams Berkshire on a hardwood floor - no damage other than to his ego when it slipped out of his hands. I wouldn't try that with either HO or N as it'd be a candidate for the scrap line.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

I'd have to weigh in on the side of HO as well. It's very easy to find anything you could possibly want in that scale making the cost of entry low. Heck, I found HO scale cars and accessories at Ollie's for $3 / piece. 

I started with HO many years ago, and still have most of it. Although I've set it aside in favor of O for now, I do intend to get back to HO later and do a small layout for my nephew when he's a couple of years older.


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

Have a model railroad dealer here in Lafayette, IN, Hawkins Rail Service that runs a 100 grain car consist with 2-3 engines, forwards and backwards on his in store railroad in HO scale. I have HO and long for O scale to be easier on my eyes.


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## Jus (Dec 26, 2013)

Howard1975 - I have a basic understanding of electricity so that mostly makes sense. 



briangcc said:


> When you say abuse, what are you referring to? Young children playing with them? If so, you might want to forgo the long drags and invest in Lionel/Williams/MTH O scale. My son has dropped his Williams Berkshire on a hardwood floor - no damage other than to his ego when it slipped out of his hands. I wouldn't try that with either HO or N as it'd be a candidate for the scrap line.


All I meant was that I'm going to run our first loco A LOT and going to see how much it can pull.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Jus said:


> Howard1975 - I have a basic understanding of electricity so that mostly makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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