# Opinions on First Layout Design 2.0



## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

Hello,

I had posted here almost a year ago asking for opinions on a design I came up with for a finished room in my basement.

While I still think one day I may build a large layout, I want to be sure I will fully commit to it. Essentially, I don't want to get half way into building a large layout to realize I am not committed enough to finish it.

Therefore, I felt I should go back to the basics and design a 4x8 layout. This way I will have relatively limited financial investment and gives me a chance to practice doing track work, scenery and DCC work.

This is what I came up with:

https://imgur.com/a/oLqIz

The era for this fictional layout is 1940s-late 1950s. I really like late steam and early diesel locomotives. In my head, I imagine the largest steam engine would be a 2-8-0 like a PRR H-10 and maybe an RS1 diesel. Also, train cars will be smaller and no passenger cars. This is why I think the 18 in. minimum radius and #4 switches won't be a problem.

Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

I think you’ve planned out a really nice switching layout. Lots of interesting track spurs that I also think you can build nice industrial scenes around. The only thing I’m not crazy about is the straight road down the middle. I think it would look nicer with a bit of an “S” curve in it. Another thing you could consider is to put a divider down the middle that would allow you to make a couple of different backgrounds on each side. That might make the layout seem larger than it is.

Mark


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You didn't mention which scale you are considering.
But references in your last paragraph hint that 
it may be HO.

You have a very interesting layout...lots of switching
always interests me. However, you should consider
a 5 X 8, or even 6 X 8 table size. That will more
comfortably accomadate the design you have posted.

Are you certain 18" radius will be enough for
the 2-8-0? Generally, 4 wheel truck diesels and
other smaller locos are about all that can run without
derailing on 18".

Don


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## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

Mark VerMurlen said:


> I think you’ve planned out a really nice switching layout. Lots of interesting track spurs that I also think you can build nice industrial scenes around. The only thing I’m not crazy about is the straight road down the middle. I think it would look nicer with a bit of an “S” curve in it. Another thing you could consider is to put a divider down the middle that would allow you to make a couple of different backgrounds on each side. That might make the layout seem larger than it is.
> 
> Mark


Mark, I appreciate your input. I agree that having a straight road may be boring, but making it curve in the middle could be challenging to the design of the railroad. In addition, my inspiration is coming from a downtown heavy industrial area, where main roads are likely to be straight. I believe that I will be able to add enough life to it that being straight won't be a problem. Then again, maybe I am wrong and this will be a learning experience!



DonR said:


> You didn't mention which scale you are considering.
> But references in your last paragraph hint that
> it may be HO.
> 
> ...


Don, you are right - I didn't put anywhere the scale. Yes, it will be HO. I was originally thinking of building N scale since that would allow more stuff in a tight space and I already have some equipment, but I really want a switching layout and feel HO is better suited for that.

I completely understand the thought of making a bigger table, even if just slightly. My problem is that I have more than enough space, the room I have is actually 18x14 with a closet that takes up a little bit of space. My challenge for myself has been to stick with a 4x8 so that I can really practice model building and see if I am committed enough to eventually build a larger layout.

I do understand that 18 in. is about the bare minimum that you can do for HO and that larger locomotives may not be able to traverse it at all and large freight cars will not look good on such tight curves. However, I am planning to use small locomotives (2-4 axle diesels and small steamers). According to the Broadway Limited website, their PRR H-10 is capable of running on 18 in. curves. In addition, rail cars will be late 1950's and earlier vintage, so most of them will be 40-50' cars.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

patrick.b said:


> I do understand that 18 in. is about the bare minimum that you can do for HO and that larger locomotives may not be able to traverse it at all and large freight cars will not look good on such tight curves. However, I am planning to use small locomotives (2-4 axle diesels and small steamers). According to the Broadway Limited website, their PRR H-10 is capable of running on 18 in. curves. In addition, rail cars will be late 1950's and earlier vintage, so most of them will be 40-50' cars.


Just make sure you understand that "capable of running on" and "running well on" can be two very different things. A friend of mine had a long loco that cornered 18" by itself very well, but there was so much overhang that if you coupled it to anything, it would derail something when the corner of the loco hit the corner of the car.


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## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

Alright, despite saying I wouldn't I have conceded that it would probably be a benefit to add one ft. to two sides of the table to make it a 5x9. This allowed me to up the minimum radius to 22 in. from 18 in. I was also able to fit in a few more tracks here or there. What do you think:

https://imgur.com/a/kI5mL


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Patrick

I especially like the use of the crossover in your
series of spurs across the top of the layout. That will
make for very interesting switching moves.

You have a nice number of spurs, some require loco to back
car in, others the loco must push a car forward. You have
only one passing siding, across the top. See if you can get one
in the lower section of the layout. It's helpful to have the ability
to get the loco on either side of a car near the spurs.

My only question is if the right 'tail' of the switch back 
in the middle is long enough for your loco plus X # of
cars.

Don


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## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

DonR said:


> Patrick
> 
> I especially like the use of the crossover in your
> series of spurs across the top of the layout. That will
> ...


Don,

Thanks again for the feedback. I opted to not put in a passing siding at the bottom to try and make things more interesting. My thought is that those cars needing to be placed in the orange or grey buildings will be services by a small switcher from the factory.

Regarding the length of the switchbacks, both should be able to handle a locomotive and 1-2 40' cars. A prototypical PRR H10 would be almost 10 in. and a prototypical RS3 would be almost 8 in. in HO. As these switchbacks are roughly 20-22 in. each, this should be plenty of room.


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