# Atlas N gauge #6 turnouts picking the points



## Dave Kitch (Apr 20, 2021)

I am frustrated with several new Atlas turnouts that I purchased. My locomotives are derailing due to the points no being close enough to the outside rails. I have four turnouts where this is occurring. I used a finger nail file to try to sharpen the points but with no success. I even replaced several but with the same results. Any suggestions other than switching to PECO? I am using an Atlas manual switch machine. Would a Caboose ground throw switch provide more closing force?
DMK


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

While your instinct to file the points is correct, a nail file is designed to file keratin, not metal, and most likely isn't doing anything at all. If these are Snap Switches, then yes, the garbage can is probably the best place for them. If they are Custom Line, then you should be able to correct the problem by deepening the notch that the rails sit in with a Jeweler's file.

An alternate operator, like a Caboose ground throw, is unlikely to help, UNLESS the problem really is that the points aren't moving fully. After throwing them, can you continue to move them manually? If so, then a more robust actuating device will probably help.

Also, make sure you don't have debris, like stray pieces of cork, which are preventing the points from moving fully.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I replaced all of my Atlas turnouts with Peco Insulfrogs for the
very reason you have; derails. But looking at your pics it
appears that there is no space in the rail to fit the point.
I wonder if you could rout it out with a Dremel.

Don


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## 65steam (Dec 18, 2019)

I find that the problem with Atlas switches many times is insufficient tension of the switch machines to hold the rails in place. I've recently eliminated mine and followed Lance Mindheim's suggestion of putting a shim underneath the sliding section of the switch to hold the points in place by friction without a switch machine needed. I simply used a few layers of clear plastic packaging and have been very happy. Plus, it looks better.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

65steam said:


> I find that the problem with Atlas switches many times is insufficient tension of the switch machines to hold the rails in place. I've recently eliminated mine and followed Lance Mindheim's suggestion of putting a shim underneath the sliding section of the switch to hold the points in place by friction without a switch machine needed. I simply used a few layers of clear plastic packaging and have been very happy. Plus, it looks better.


In the OP's photos, it looks like the points are snug against the rails, but there is no notch for the points to nestle into. Just looks like a bad design, or a manufacturing defect.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Check the thick black bar between the near end of the point rails too. There should be enough room for the wheel flanges to pass by, and if not, your wheel flange will ride up and over that black block and cause a derailment.

If those turnouts are designed and built like HO Atlas Custom Line, the black bar is moveable within limits, to adjust the clearance. It will also ensure enough tension on the point rail to keep it closed.

In your photos above, you can see that the bar is not centered between the point rails and I suspect the left side of the axle is riding up and over the black bar. Center it and see if that helps.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Probably a manufacturing defect. Sharpen the points with a Dremel and/or a metal file, and/or notch the stock rail to provide some extra point clearance for a smooth wheel/flange clearance. Of course, outside of trying to return the turnouts and get different ones, this would be the fastest way to resolve the problem.

Yeah, it kinda' sucks, but sometimes you gotta' do what you gotta' do.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> While your instinct to file the points is correct, a nail file is designed to file keratin, not metal, and most likely isn't doing anything at all. If these are Snap Switches, then yes, the garbage can is probably the best place for them. If they are Custom Line, then you should be able to correct the problem by deepening the notch that the rails sit in with a Jeweler's file.
> 
> An alternate operator, like a Caboose ground throw, is unlikely to help, UNLESS the problem really is that the points aren't moving fully. After throwing them, can you continue to move them manually? If so, then a more robust actuating device will probably help.
> 
> Also, make sure you don't have debris, like stray pieces of cork, which are preventing the points from moving fully.


CTValley;

In N-scale there are no custom line Atlas turnouts. Snap Switches are the only type Atlas makes in N-scale. While throwing them out, and replacing them with better turnouts, is a good solution, there are others. With modification, Atlas snap switches can be made reasonably reliable. One advantage the N-scale snap switches have is a much broader curved route. Instead of the 18" radius (sort of) used in HO-scale, The N-scale snap switch uses a 19"radius. Factoring in the scale difference, that's roughly equivalent to a 36"-38" radius HO curve. 

regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Still waiting to hear back from this OP drive-by post.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Dave Kitch said:


> I am frustrated with several new Atlas turnouts that I purchased. My locomotives are derailing due to the points no being close enough to the outside rails. I have four turnouts where this is occurring. I used a finger nail file to try to sharpen the points but with no success. I even replaced several but with the same results. Any suggestions other than switching to PECO? I am using an Atlas manual switch machine. Would a Caboose ground throw switch provide more closing force?
> DMK
> View attachment 573452
> View attachment 573453


Dave;

You're not the first, and won't be the last, to have problems with the somewhat infamous Atlas "Snap Switch".
Still, it is possible to remedy most of the problems, and make them more reliable. First, I suggest this test. Remove the manual switch machine and try pushing & pulling the throwbar with your fingers. Sometimes cork roadbed, and often ballast, may interfere with free movement of the throwbar and point rails. If they move quite easily, and all the way from tight against one stock rail to all the way to the other rail, then you can disregard that possibility.

Next, Read the attached files. They detail some of the problems inherent in the Atlas design, and how to fix them.
From your photos, I can see that the points are very blunt indeed. Take the advice already given and use a miniature metal file to sharpen the points. I can't tell from your photos whether or not there is a notch in each of the running rails for the point to snuggle into. There should be! If Atlas didn't provide these notches, then you can file your own. Besides a set of mini files, you will also need an NMRA gauge to check the turnouts, and all your other track + all the wheels on your locos & cars. The same gauge can also check several critical areas of a turnout. An NMRA standards gauge costs about $6 and can be ordered from www.modeltrainstuff.com or www.trainworld.com 

Good luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

traction fan said:


> CTValley;
> 
> In N-scale there are no custom line Atlas turnouts. Snap Switches are the only type Atlas makes in N-scale. While throwing them out, and replacing them with better turnouts, is a good solution, there are others. With modification, Atlas snap switches can be made reasonably reliable. One advantage the N-scale snap switches have is a much broader curved route. Instead of the 18" radius (sort of) used in HO-scale, The N-scale snap switch uses a 19"radius. Factoring in the scale difference, that's roughly equivalent to a 36"-38" radius HO curve.
> 
> ...


Actually, Traction Fan, there are. And have been, for a long time. Maybe they're commonly referred to as 'Snap Switches' when they put a switch control on them, whether it be manual or powered?

N Scale Custom-Line Turnouts, N Scale Code 80 Track | Atlas Model Railroad


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## Honestman54 (Dec 30, 2021)

DonR said:


> I replaced all of my Atlas turnouts with Peco Insulfrogs for the
> very reason you have; derails. But looking at your pics it
> appears that there is no space in the rail to fit the point.
> I wonder if you could rout it out with a Dremel.
> ...


Are the insulfrogs for DCC? Ive never seen these for sale anywhere


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

traction fan said:


> CTValley;
> 
> In N-scale there are no custom line Atlas turnouts. Snap Switches are the only type Atlas makes in N-scale. While throwing them out, and replacing them with better turnouts, is a good solution, there are others. With modification, Atlas snap switches can be made reasonably reliable. One advantage the N-scale snap switches have is a much broader curved route. Instead of the 18" radius (sort of) used in HO-scale, The N-scale snap switch uses a 19"radius. Factoring in the scale difference, that's roughly equivalent to a 36"-38" radius HO curve.
> 
> ...


I keep forgetting that Atlases offerings are different in N scale, but there are N scale custom lines.. The tight curve on the HO Snap Switch is only one of many design flaws in them, though, so I still can't recommend them. If the photos from the OP are representative, then there is a serious design flaw in not notching the stock rails for the points to nestle in.

Yes, you can buy substandard turnouts and spend your precious hobby time doctoring them, or you can spend a few dollars more and get a quality turnout to start with. For me, that's a no-brainer.

In any event, the OP seems to have done a fly-by, so there may not be any point in continuing this thread.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Honestman54 said:


> Are the insulfrogs for DCC? Ive never seen these for sale anywhere


Any turnout can be used with any control scheme, yes. Peco doesn't make Insulfrogs and Electrofrogs anymore, they make "Unifrogs", which may be why you can't find Insulfrogs. And supply chain issues are causing a temporary shortage of many items at the moment.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Mixed Freight said:


> Actually, Traction Fan, there are. And have been, for a long time. Maybe they're commonly referred to as 'Snap Switches' when they put a switch control on them, whether it be manual or powered?
> 
> N Scale Custom-Line Turnouts, N Scale Code 80 Track | Atlas Model Railroad


Mixed Freight;

I guess this depends on what you consider a "custom line" turnout. Yes, there are some Atlas N-scale turnouts with the words "Custom Line" on the packaging, but aside from the absence of a switch machine, they are virtually identical to Atlas "Snap Switches." I'm speaking of Atlas's code 80 turnouts here. Code 55 is a different story.*
One key difference between Snap Switches, and Custom Line turnouts, at least in HO-scale, is the frog.
Custom line turnouts have a metal frog that can be powered by a tab at the side of the frog which can accept a screw to hold a wire.
Snap Switches have plastic frogs which, of course, can't be powered.
Custom Line HO turnouts generally have two straight routes, diverging at the frog angle, and are are labeled #4, #6, Etc.
Snap Switches have one straight route, and one curved route. (in either scale)
I have even seen an HO-scale turnout that was labeled "Custom Line" on the bottom of its plastic tie strip, that was absolutely identical to a snap switch, plastic frog, 18" r. curved route, and all.
So it pays to check for a frog # on the package, the route geometry, and a metal frog, before accepting the label "custom line" at face value. A friend had one of those Atlas N-scale code 80 turnouts with "custom line" printed on the package. Suspicious of the plastic frog & curved route, I overlaid a snap switch on top of the "custom line" one. They were identical.
Looking at your link, I think the first two turnouts at the top left, may have geometry identical to a snap switch. Also I don't see metal frogs on any of the Atlas turnouts shown in your link, with the possible exception of the # 8s, which seem to have a gray, rather than black, frog. Not sure if that means its metal ? And all look like they may have a curved route? (with different radii) but its hard to be sure of that from the photos. So, are they really "custom line"?  ????

*Atlas N-scale code 55 turnouts do have a metal, isolated, frog with provision to power it. They also have brown ties instead of the black ties used on snap switches.

Traction Fan


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