# Converted Rivarossi Big Boy Stop n Go



## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey Guys,

Here is my story. I just converted an older Rivarossi Big Boy, probably from back in the 70's. I first installed a Soundtraxx ECO-100 sound decoder. The decoder comes with a small capacitor, which I installed. At this time the engine only had 2 pick-up wheels per rail. The engine would run, but stop n go all the time. Always took a nudge to get it going. Almost sounded like dirty track. The only tool I haven't used on my track is a grinder. It is that clean.

In talking to Hornby/Rivarossi, they suggested that I replace the truck with ones that have full wheel pick-up. So, I did that and now have 8 wheels per rail. You would think that should override any track issues. Put the loco on the track and the same issue, stop n go. So, thinking that maybe the small capacitor wasn't working, I changed it out to a Soundtraxx Current Keeper. Back on the track it goes. Still stop n go but not as often. Now what I have found is that under 10mph it will stop, and you have to nudge it to get it moving. Over that speed, it will stop momentarily, then start moving. Maybe the higher speed would have helped all along. There is no specific spot where it stops.

I know the Current Keeper is working, because if I lift the loco off the track, it maintains the sounds. 

The only thing that I can think of inside is the motor. Why is it shutting down? Is it shorting out? I get no indication of any shorts on my NCE command station.

Well, that's my story. Hopefully there is an expert that can shed some light on where I might look. I am basically frustrated at this point.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

Ted


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I would disconnect the Current Keeper until the problem is identified and corrected.Right now it is kind of hiding what the real trouble may be.

Then,when stopping (w/o the CC),do sounds cut off too?Does the headlight start blinking?Soundtraxx decoders have a telltale feature identifying motor problems.In this case,the number of blinks usually steer to the problem.Let us know what happens.


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## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Good point. Will have an answer for you tomorrow.
Thanks for your quick reply.

Ted


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

You might want to see what the amp draw is on that big boy. You might be maxing out the decoder. I think you could use a multimeter with a lead to each track. If your decoder
is 1 amp, that 70s motor might be drawing too much. So check rating on decoder and 
see what loco is drawing. I do not know just throwing something up to check.

Decoder may be shutting down to protect itself.


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## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Okay Guys, have to walk away for a while. I did check the amp draw on the motor before I ordered the decoder. I believe it was around.50a, well within the decoders specs. Now, can I make that check with the decoder in the circuit?

I have the shell off and am looking at the wiring. Found a couple of wire issues, and repaired them. They could have caused problems, but once fixed, still the same old problem. Doing a lot of the "wiggle and move test". Sometimes I can get a fault, other times not. At this point I need another set of eyes. So, will step back for a while and try to gain back my sanity before I dig into it again. 

I am thinking of maybe just rewiring the decoder. That would not be a big deal since I only have to rewire the motor and the pick-ups. Worth a try?

Hey, it *is* "5 OClock Somewhere". Will be back with you.

Ted


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

It is not clear from your posts...does the headlight go
out when the loco stops or pauses? If it does, the
indication is that the decoder is not getting continuous
power from the track. 

Have you ensured that all wheel treads are clean and
provide continuous contact with the rails?

Are there specific points where the stops occur? If
so there is the possibility of poor contact in the joiners.

The rail tops also must be clean to provide good
electrical contact for the wheels.

If none of the various suggestions resolves your
problem you might discover the answer by running
the loco with the shell off. That way when it stops
you can use your multimeter. Set to AC it can tell you if 
decoder is or is not getting power, if it is, set to DC and
check motor terminals to see if it is getting power. If it
is, motor is likely defective or needs cleaning. If motor
is not getting power, check wiring, if that is OK you
may have a defective decoder. Check with it's
maker for advice.

Don


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## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Don, here is what I can tell you as I know it. Yes, the headlight turns off when it stops. Then a brand new start up. 

The wheels are clean as best I know. They are brand new.

No specific places that it stops. Can be anywhere.

I have cleaned my track with everything but a grinder. LOL

I can run the loco, shell off, but I don't have any open points to check the decoder power. I can check the motor although. The decoder is hardwired.

Going to tinker with it for a few minutes before dinner. Will probably just frustrate me more.

Will be back later.

Ted


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## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Preliminary guess before I call it quits for the day. I am growing more suspicious of the wheel pick-ups. The small brass contacts just don't seem to connect to the outer band of the wheel like I would like. They are flimsy at best, and seem to bend just by looking at them. I am going to try some contact cleaner on the wheels and the swipes. They are simply too delicate to mess with. 

Right now it is running around in a loop, stopping maybe once or twice each loop. 

Your thoughts.

Gonna put it to bed for today.

Ted


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Ted

Since you say the headlight goes off when
the loco stops, that indicates that the decoder is not getting
dependable input power from the wheels. Yes, those
wipers are a possible cause. You can test them by
placing the loco upside down in a 'cradle' and use your
multimeter set to ohms. Put the probe on the tread of
the first right side wheel with a wiper. Touch the other probe to
each wheel with wipers on that side. Do the same with
the left side. At each test point, push the wheels with
your finger to see if lateral movement breaks wiper
contact. At any point no reading indicates wiper is
losing contact.

Don


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## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Don, I think you have hit on something. I have made this very check across the wheels several times before. Each time I get a different set of wheels in sync. One side, all the wheels are together. The other side I get 1-2 wheels to ping. I have tried numerous times to adjust the wipes to the outermost of the wheels, so that that they are making contact. Then the wheel shifts to the other side and contact is lost. I have tried to remove the gearbox cover to expose the metal wiper plates, in hopes of adjusting them better. But I haven't found the secret to removing the cover without damaging anything. I am very disappointed in Rivarossi's design of these wipes. Maybe there is a problem with the continuity of the back of the wheels? There is such a small area to make contact. But I wonder how one would clean them? Being new, right out the box, one would think they would be clean as a whistle.

I will try and contact them tomorrow and see what suggestions they may have. Will let you know what I find out. :dunno:

Thanks.

Ted


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Ted

So that we are all clear...the power pickups
for this loco are the tender wheels...is that correct?
Are they 4 or 6 wheel trucks? Are wipers
on all wheels?

It is the tender wheels that indicate a 'looseness'
that breaks the wiper contacts? It is not usual
that truck wheels have that much lateral play that
they lose contact with the wipers.

Mulling more. Back later.

Don


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## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

Don,

Rivarossi does not have any power wheels in their tenders. All the pick-up are on the front two trucks on the loco. The only thing in their tenders is the backup light.

Found the secret to removing the gear cover that exposes the wipe plates. Started working last night on bending the wipes to better meet the wheels. That might work. Limited time this weekend to really dig into it, but look out next week. 

And, waiting a reply from Rivarossi on the situation. 

Back at you.

Ted


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

If your pick up strips are making contact with the back side of the wheel, then the wheel may be siding right or left while running just enough to break the contact.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Somehow I missed something.

You started this thread with a Big Boy problem,
yet you mention 2 front trucks. You say you
have installed additional wipers to accomplish
8 wheel power pickup. If that means that
you have wipers on 8 of the locos drive wheels
you should have dependable power to the decoder.

I don't have any steamers. Do your loco's drive
wheels have lateral play? I could imagine this
could be a design factor to permit use on smaller
curves but also could be causing loss of contact
with the wipers.

There is some problem with wheel contact to
wipers or to the rails. Is it possible that one or more
of the drivers is not contacting the rails? Not all of
the drivers have flanges to enable use on smaller
radii, these may not be making rail contact.

Just throwing out 'possibles' hoping one would
be the answer.

Don


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## tmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

OK Fellas, hope I haven't confused you. My Big Boy does not have any pick ups in the tender, All the pick ups are contained in the two truck on the loco. So I have the possibility of 8 pick ups per rail, in a perfect world. And yes, that many pick ups would be more than enough to power the decoder. 

Yes, the wheels do have side to side motion, and right fully so on the engine. That I have no control over. There are no blind wheels on this unit. And I am running it on 18" curves, of which it does a pretty good job. 

I just completed adjusting all the wipes. That was next to brain surgery. LOL Now I have continuity from front to back across all wheels on each rail. Running it back and forth on my test track for several minutes, I have not had a failure. That is encouraging. So in the next day or so I will button it up and put it to the test on the layout.

Hopefully I can put this to bed soon.

Thanks everyone for all your help. What would we do without each other?

Ted


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