# Small scale for beginner



## bmanners (Aug 2, 2013)

Hi folks,

I am considering making a small scale layout but not sure if the smaller scales are suitable for a first time layout?

I also have two small kids (2 & 3.5yrs) so would be interested to hear from others with small kids to see what features they like. 

Also having kids means I have very little time or space so any layout will take many years to build and not be very big I expect.

Cheers
Brett


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

With small kids, you might be better off with O scale post war or MPC era. They are durable (less breakable) than the smaller scales, can be had for a reasonable price and you can have curves as small as 27" diameter.

If PW or MPC are hard to come by down under, maybe a ready to run set from MTH or Lionel would do the trick. Some of these might also stand up to youngsters


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I agree with Lehigh74...the larger 0 gauge models are more 
durable and easier to work with for small kids. It can be
expensive. A form of digital control is available. Most hobby
shops carry good selections of cars and accessories.

N Scale is desirable for those who would like a larger layout
but have limited real estate to put it on. It is small, and requires
a person with steady hands and good eyesight to work on it
tho. DCC, digital control is available.

HO is very good for those with space who want to grow a larger
layout. It's locos and cars are a bit more reasonable in price
than 0 gauge, but are more delicate and require careful handling.
DCC, digital control is available.

Both N and HO sets, locos, cars and accessories are usually
well stocked in most hobby shops.

Don


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

What features do small kids like? You can get Thomas the tank engine (and some of his friends) in O or HO.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Ever the contrarian, I disagree. Small kids have this incredible way of growing up into bigger kids, and it happens before you know it. Your kids can learn to operate, and later handle, any scale.

Pick the scale that suits your lifestyle best, and use that one. If funds and space are tight, O is not the best choice. The only real advantage that O offers is more "animated" stuff (cars that dump, gates that lower, and so forth).

All my boys have been operating trains on my layouts for years. The youngest since he was about 4 years old. Even that young, they can be taught to operate at realistic speeds. My youngest got his own layout when he was 6, and could re-rail HO equipment without difficulty at that age. We started with Thomas, but ditched that about 2 years later for more realistic equipment and settings.

True, all children are different. But bigger isn't necessarily better where they're concerned.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have two young boys that have been using my trains since they were real little. I have HO. The nice part about HO is that the used market is huge. When the kids were just learning they drove some old AMH C-Liners (the ones that have motors that sound like a coffee grinder). The locomotives were under $10 each used. If they broke it so be it. There were no handrails to break off so they could pick it up and place it on the track themselves. Some old Tyco box cars and gondolas worked great for first cars for the same reasons that the locomotives they had did. Some will say to stay away for the older 'toy' stuff but for a way to get a kid interested inexpensively with little risk what is better? As they got older a few Thomas trains were added to their roster (note these are to light to pull more than a few cars). 

During this whole time I still had my trains. We just had different sidings in the yards. Now the kids have received more complex and advanced equipment. One is rebuilding old Athearn Blue Box era items. The other just wants to drive.

HO is nice in that it is big enough to work on but small enough to have a layout on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. That is what my first two layouts were on. The base for my third was a basic L mad of two 4x8 sheets.


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

i go with CT v and TK. my kids G/B were handling the HO cheep cars around 4. i told them if they broke it they could not use it, so they were careful. sure some broke but the lesion was learned. 
all so the O/ Garden gauge in there own right are nice, but dollar/space may drive you nuts.

so go with the gauge you want and they will learn/or not follow in your interest.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I would say go for HO, I have kids a little older than yours and they can run the trains carefully and don't always like to have them running fast. Second hand stuff is cheap and should run well. I'm sure they'd be able to handle it.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I would not worry about DCC at this time either. Just make it a simple DC with a basic dial for the throttle. Easy for kids to work. Old MRC ones with more than enough power for track and accessories can be had cheep at shows and EBay.


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## bmanners (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone. 





I will see how much space I can find then choose a scale to fit. At this point it looks like a space 4ft x 2ft, or there abouts, above the bikes in the shed is the only free area at the moment.





Cheers


Brett


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Bret

You sure can't do much in a 2' X 4' space in anything but Z scale and
that's a very tiny train.

Even an N scale small switching layout would be crowded on a layout
that size.

Don


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Sorry Don I beg to differ, there's plenty you can do in 4x2 in N. Have a look at these for starters: http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm
I should go for something quite simple like Plan Name: 2x40024 from that page or the one below it, plenty of scenery which gives it a realistic look but with reasonable operating potential. Don't be tempted to cover the whole board with track.


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## bmanners (Aug 2, 2013)

There are some interesting layouts on that website.

I know I don't have much space to work with but it is better than nothing. If the kids get interested I will be able dedicate more space later. 

Brett


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

There are ways to gain room.

If you have a bed that sits off the floor you might be able to pull in and out a 4'x8' sheet of plywood? 4'x6'?

You could also hinge one off the wall, sort of like a hide a bed.

You could hoist it up in the garage, we have a few threads showing how.


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## bmanners (Aug 2, 2013)

I like the folding layout idea.

And I have to confess that I will probably put down too much track....


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I have done the folding layout idea before. Remember to have the hinge out from the wall to allow for any structures that you might construct.Also think about what height you want it at. It should work well.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

If you make a 4x2 and have a siding going off the board that can be the future entrance to a new section if the layout is expanded. I tend to make one of the sidings in the yard at the edge of the layout a run through just in case of expansion. This worked to my advantage in the last two that I built. The last went from an L to an O thanks to this feature. Other than changing a bumper out for a straight track there was little changed in the existing.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Turnback curves*



bmanners said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 If you really have only 2 feet of width for your train table; that limits your scale choices.
The amount of space it takes to have your train do the equivalent of a U-turn(with your automobile) varies a lot with scale. 
I model in N scale. Its tight minimum radius curves are 9.75 inch radius(approx.24cm.). This is the radius, not the diameter. It's also measured from the center of the track, so you should allow more room to get to, and past, the outer end of the ties("sleepers") on both sides of the curve. The "past" reference is to allow room for 
overhang of cars and locomotives. With this tight a curve, there will be plenty of overhang. 
The actual table width needed for this curve will be two feet, so you will just be able to fit
the smallest N scale turn around curve in your space. Many N scale curves, and all curves of larger scales, require more room than you say you have available. As an example my N scale railroad has a 16 inch minimum radius. 
Z scale is smaller than N scale and can turn around in less space due to its smaller curves. So, if you only have two feet of table width, and you want to be able to turn around, N scale,& Z scale would seem to be your only options. 
Some model railroads,(and nearly all real ones) don't have turn around loops of track at all.
They run from one point to another. This is a way you could use a larger scale, but you won't have continuous running of your train. With only four feet of length, things might be rather dull. Running a train from one end of a four foot piece of track to the other and back.
Sidings added to both ends would help generate a bit more variety of operation. 
Another option would be a trolley(tram) layout. They use tighter curves, the "train" is shorter, and it's normal for them to run in reverse as much as forward.

Regards;
Traction Fan


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*A good folding layout design*



bmanners said:


> I like the folding layout idea.
> 
> And I have to confess that I will probably put down too much track....


 bmaners;
The late John Armstrong was an excellent and inventive track planning Guru.
One of his books titled, "John Armstrong on Creative Layout Design", contains plans for a
very clever fold up railroad. He called it "The Murphy Bed and Credenza." It featured a very innovative hinge and support system which maximized available table area. The credenza, portion allowed trains to be parked on a non-folding part of the layout, so you didn't have to pack them away, then re-stage them each time you used the railroad.
The book is old (copyrighted in 1978). The publisher, www.kalmbach.com can tell you if it's
still available. Your public library may be able to help, or you may be able to find one through
amazon.com. I think this design might work for you. It occupies little floor space when folded, but opens up to a self supporting four by eight feet. You could also alter these dimensions as needed.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan


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## longbow57ca (Oct 26, 2015)

Hello, bmanners, When were children my Parents got us Marx trains because they as tuff as nails and last a life time. Great for making small layouts and great for children to play with. You can buy Marx trains off ebay and train stores a lot cheaper than Lionel and MTH trains which are very expensive I find. Even N scale and HO trains can be expensive and cost lot money for a layout. For my money the way to go is Marx trains because they also collectable. They very easy to find which makes a great hobby. Marx trains have last me over 50 years of enjoyment. Thanks longbow57ca. Have a great day.


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