# NOT SURE WHAT TO TITLE THIS?



## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

I am just a beginner but have tried to contribute more to this forum than just beginner questions....however....I have another question 

I have a BLI SW1500 HO scale engine which used to be able to pull 9 or 10 cars around a tight curve (about 20" radius). This curve is on a 2% grade for only about 10" and the rest is flat.

It now stalls every time at the same point. It has no problem with fewer cars and other engines have no problem. It always used to be able to pull the cars at the same speed step.

I have not changed anything that I can imagine caused this problem except I applied a couple of drops of Labelle oil to each axel a couple of weeks ago.

The first solution I thought of was to get another switcher and consist them together when necessary. What a great excuse to buy another engine . I would rather understand why this change happened.

If anyone has any ideas or similar experience I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks for reading.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

Maybe clean the tracks. You might be losing just enough oomph at that point to cause the problem.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Gradual decline or suden change. Open it up oil the motor.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Stalling the motor is very unusual. 
Are you actually saying the loco is spinning
it's wheels when it encounters the grade?

Wheel slippage is a function of loco weight.
The more weight the better the traction. You
might try taping temporary weights to the loco
and see if that solves the problem.

The only thing I can think of that would have
changed is the tread of the wheels. Perhaps
they became polished.

Don


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. No the wheels don't slip or spin it just comes to a gradual stop. I cleaned the track and the wheels. I also ran it at top speed forward and reverse for a few minuets. 

Unfortunately the problem persists. The loco is less than a year old so I would imagine the wheels are still in good shape but I'm not sure how to tell for sure.

Thanks again for the help and please let me know if you have any other ideas or suggestions. Tomorrow I will call BLI and see what they say.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Was it purchased brand new one year ago, or is it a used loco.
Warranty?

Can you measure the voltage at the track, in front of the stalled loco?

https://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-63604.html


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Dennis461 said:


> Was it purchased brand new one year ago, or is it a used loco.
> Warranty?
> 
> Can you measure the voltage at the track, in front of the stalled loco?
> ...


I bought it new so it's still under warranty. I will have to send it to Fl. to have it repaired if necessary so I wanted to make sure it isn't something simple first.

I did tape a few bolts to the loco for weight as suggested and it seems to be fine now. I don't have documented proof and I am aware of the fallibility of memory but that being said, I would stake my life on this engine once being able to pull this number of cars through that section of track :laugh: It wasn't any heavier then than it is now (except for the bolts taped to it)

Confusing


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Now, in your post earlier you said the wheels do not slip. Now you say adding weight helps it move
This is confusing, can you see all the wheels when it stalls? Are one side wheels not moving and perhaps other side spinning?


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Will the engine run up the grade with 2 cars?
With 4 cars?
With 6 cars?
Etc....


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

spikedrivingblues said:


> ... It always used to be able to pull the cars at the same speed step.
> 
> I have not changed anything that I can imagine caused this problem except I applied a couple of drops of Labelle oil to each axel a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> ...



As delivered, both the tracks and the metal tires/treads on the rolling stock are somewhat rough. They have what is called 'tooth' due to machining processes and the effects of cutting and milling tools. Over time, these get smooth with wear...with use. Later, the tires may get somewhat rougher as the plating on the shiny tire tread gets worn and brass or copper show below it.


If you get your camera or eye low in front of a locomotive's headlight, say two or three feet away, and remark on the rail surfaces between you and the headlight, new tracks will be somewhat dull. Inside of a few weeks, they'll reflect the headlight much like real rails do that are used regularly. This means they are truly polished, meaning the surface irregularities now comprise microns, not hundredths of millimeters. This smoother surface will offer less purchase to the driving and bearing surfaces of the locomotives' drivers. Less friction means less traction. The locomotive has changed in no other way, barring minor wear and tear on operating surfaces. It still weighs the same as it did on its first trial on your layout.


Here is my PCM Y6-b moving towards a hand-laid #6 double slip switch. It is obvious that the headlight is nicely reflected in part of the rails.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Dennis461 said:


> Now, in your post earlier you said the wheels do not slip. Now you say adding weight helps it move
> This is confusing, can you see all the wheels when it stalls? Are one side wheels not moving and perhaps other side spinning?


THat is possible. I can only see one side of the loco in the trouble spot.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

J.Albert1949 said:


> Will the engine run up the grade with 2 cars?
> With 4 cars?
> With 6 cars?
> Etc....


Yes it will pull up to 7 but struggles just a bit. I must apologize. I misled you all when I said the wheels aren't spinning. I didn't think they were but I looked closer and they are.

Sorry to confuse you guys.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

After trying to hone in on the problem it certainly looks like some additional weight solves the problem. Perhaps the wheels and/or rails have become smoother as suggested earlier.

So now I have another problem. Does anyone have any advise on how to add weight to a BLI SW1500 (other than taping bolts to the top of it :laugh

Thanks


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

spikedrivingblues said:


> After trying to hone in on the problem it certainly looks like some additional weight solves the problem. Perhaps the wheels and/or rails have become smoother as suggested earlier.
> 
> So now I have another problem. Does anyone have any advise on how to add weight to a BLI SW1500 (other than taping bolts to the top of it :laugh
> 
> Thanks


Yes instead of more weight.
http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/index.asp

Works wonders.:thumbsup:


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

bewhole said:


> Yes instead of more weight.
> http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/index.asp
> 
> Works wonders.:thumbsup:


Thanks. I’ve never heard of anything like that. 

I hesitate to put frog snot or the snot of any amphibian
On my loco’s wheels . 

Do you have long term results with this product?

Anyone else?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

It works very well to make traction tires. Two issues: 1) it is possible to use too much and insulate the wheels from the rails. 2) It has a very short shelf life once opened. You will probably waste most of it.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I have not verified this myself, but about four months ago, maybe five, on another forum(??), a person said that he felt he had nothing to lose and added a bit of water to his apparently silly-putty blob of snot left when he opened the bottle, set it aside for a few days, and returned to find it usable again. If so...….

On a four axle switcher, using snot or traction tires invites some stalling over frogs. I have a Walthers SW-8 with four axles that came with traction tires installed. It behaved very poorly on my #7.5 curved W/S turnouts and on my hand laid #8's. I contacted Walthers, who had just purchased Life Like, the makers of the diesel, and explained my problem. The gentleman offered to mail me a metal tire axle free of charge, adding they were aware of the problem. I have never looked back; the loco works perfectly.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

OP wrote:
_"Yes it will pull up to 7 but struggles just a bit. I must apologize. I misled you all when I said the wheels aren't spinning. I didn't think they were but I looked closer and they are."_

Well, you've got the same problem the big engines have.
That is -- too steep a grade + too many cars = wheelslip.

Solutions:
- add another engine
- add weight (will be difficult on an SW type unit -- no room)
- reduce train size
- reduce grade percentage.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

A more unconvential solution woud be to remove weight from a group of cars for this particular engine. Have you cleaned wheels and track really good?


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> It works very well to make traction tires. Two issues: 1) it is possible to use too much and insulate the wheels from the rails. 2) It has a very short shelf life once opened. You will probably waste most of it.


Thanks. loosing electrical pick up was my biggest concern.

Not sure if I'll give this a try or look into how to add weights.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks all. seems like my best bet might be either try the snot or add an engine. Those are both more desirable than reducing the amount of cars or removing weights from many of my cars (they work well now so I assume they all weigh about what they're supposed to. I think I should leave them be if I can).

I found some youtube videos on the snot. They showed quite a bit being applied. How much is too much? If too much is applied can it be removed?

Thanks


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I looks like a lot because it is shiny, opaque, and green on an otherwise metal tread. Later, it will dry semi-clear and slightly greenish. It thins as it dries.

If you wish to remove it, simply use an old Exacto blade and pare it off like you would an apple skin.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

mesenteria said:


> I looks like a lot because it is shiny, opaque, and green on an otherwise metal tread. Later, it will dry semi-clear and slightly greenish. It thins as it dries.
> 
> If you wish to remove it, simply use an old Exacto blade and pare it off like you would an apple skin.


Thanks.

The prototype would not need another engine to pull this number of cars I wouldn't think so I'm leaning to trying the snot. It's certainly less expensive than another engine.

If I try it I'll let you guys know how I made out.

By the way, Thank you all for taking the time to be so helpful. Not just with this problem but with all the questions I and other beginners have invoked your skills and experience for. Very appreciated!


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Atlas Dual transformer operation?*

How is the second transformer wired up on a Atlas common rail layout?
I misplaced the layout booklet plan.

Regards, Tr1


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Dual power packs*



tr1 said:


> How is the second transformer wired up on a Atlas common rail layout?
> I misplaced the layout booklet plan.
> 
> Regards, Tr1


tr1;

If you have two separate power packs, in different metal cases, then it's easy, and it will work. One of the "track" or "DC" terminals of each power pack should be attached to the common rail. That's two wires, one from each pack, both connected to the common rail. The other "Track" or "DC' terminal on each pack should be attached to the (non-common rail) input terminals of an Atlas selector box which then feeds power out to the individual track blocks.

If you have one "Dual" power pack, instead of two separate packs, that's not good.
Many "Dual" power packs (two speed control knobs on one metal case) will not work with common rail. (They do work if both rails are insulated at each block boundary.)
The reason is that the two speed controls are both wired to the one,and only transformer inside the case. That fact, plus common rail, adds up to a short circuit. Common rail requires two completely separate power packs, including two separate transformers. There may be some "Dual pack" out there that actually contains two transformers, in one case, but it would be an exception to the general rule.
The easiest way to assure that you really do have separate transformers, is to use two individual power packs, in two separate cases. 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

While it may rise as a 2% grade, the effective grade is higher on a curve. You may be trying to pull that train up a 3 to 3.5%+ grade depending upon the exact radius.

The tighter the radius the steeper the effective grade.


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