# Lionel 1688 and Fastrack - Keeps derailing



## LionelRookie (Nov 11, 2011)

Well, I'm back with another problem. It seems that my Lionel 1688 does NOT like my Fastrack layout. I have a 0-36 inner, and an 0-72 outer main and it keeps derailing.

To be more specific it derails at the switches. I have read some old threads about how some pre war locos' and FT switches had problems, some worked some ( mine don't).

Have others run into this problem, if so, your tips tricks or solutions?

Bryan


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You probably won't like my answer, if I have a locomotive that doesn't run on tubular track or Fastrack (the two types I have), it goes on the auction block!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The 1688 has slides, not wheels in the center. Try to adjust a steeper angle at the front. There may be a wheel set that works but I haven't looked.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Have you watched it to see where it derails?

I had a dockside switcher that had a tendency to derail. I discovered both axles were bent slightly, and the loco was very nose heavy. I added about 2 oz of lead to the aft end and straightened the axles and now it runs fine. 

You may also have derailing problems if the gauge is not right on the wheels. I have had a number of post war cars that wanted to climb the frogs on 022 switches. The truck frames were slightly bent allowing the axles to move laterally. I bent the frames inward until the axles had no end play and all was well.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

I did a lot of testing with pre-war locomotives and different switches. Bottom line is the 1688 didn't do very well with most switches. The ones that seem to work best are pre-war Lionel switches and post-war Marx metal switches. See this thread:

Switch compatibility with prewar Lionel


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## LionelRookie (Nov 11, 2011)

Well for now it is a shelf queen, as it consistently derails, even has trouble making turns on the 0-72! Then it hits a switch and well, now I have to go play fetch.

At least it runs! 

Bryan


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Try adding a push-down spring to the front truck, or maybe some weight to the truck.

As T-Man said, make sure the two pickup shoes have a decent amount of "flex" to them.

That said, I have two of these 1688's, and they do _not_ like running through switches on my O27 track. 

Eljefe's thread link above is packed with good extra info!

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I looked at some pictures of a 1688 pm eBay. From the pictures, it appears that the gears on the drivers are larger than the diameter of the part of the driver that runs on the rails. Most switches have guard rails and the gears would ride up on the guard rails. The 1121 switches and the metal Marx switches don't have guard rails, and so the 1688 should work well with them.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

LionelRookie said:


> Well for now it is a shelf queen, as it consistently derails, even has trouble making turns on the 0-72! Then it hits a switch and well, now I have to go play fetch.
> 
> At least it runs!
> 
> Bryan


Someone on the forum once speculated that the 1688 was probably designed for use on simple oval tracks without switches. After all the difficulties I've had using the 1688 with switches and unloading/uncoupling sections, I've come to the same conclusion. I'm saving my 1688s for Christmas tree layouts only.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

eljefe said:


> Someone on the forum once speculated that the 1688 was probably designed for use on simple oval tracks without switches. After all the difficulties I've had using the 1688 with switches and unloading/uncoupling sections, I've come to the same conclusion. I'm saving my 1688s for Christmas tree layouts only.


Does it have problems running through the straight part of the switch or just the curved part?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bryan,

I'm not sure if this has an impact on your question/problem, but you may recall that there are two basic types of 1688 locos ... one with the "Lionel Jr" style of motor (black fiber pickup plate on bottom), and one with the later-generation motor (full Bakelite [???] plastic motor bottom). Per your pics/descriptions in your prior thread, you have the later-generation Bakelite style motor.

I wonder if Servoguy's comment about the drive wheel gear size applies to both types?

TJ


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## LionelRookie (Nov 11, 2011)

Your right, mine does have the plastic Bakelite bottom. 

big Ed , it runs in a straight line, then on a curve it gets dicey, then going trough any switch it's all over. It stops before it even as it through.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

servoguy said:


> I looked at some pictures of a 1688 pm eBay. From the pictures, it appears that the gears on the drivers are larger than the diameter of the part of the driver that runs on the rails. Most switches have guard rails and the gears would ride up on the guard rails. The 1121 switches and the metal Marx switches don't have guard rails, and so the 1688 should work well with them.


I think you may be on to something there. I've always wondered why my 1668 flies through switches without any problems while the 1688 so often loses power and/or derails. The two locos are so similar in most respects. Upon closer inspection, the major difference between them appears to be the diameter of the gears on the drive wheels. Those on the 1688 are much larger, which likely explains why the loco seems to get "pushed up" from the track when the power loss occurs.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Grind the gears down.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm not sure how well these pictures turned out, but here is a comparison of the smaller gears on the 1668 versus the larger gears on the 1688E and 1688.

1668:









1688E:









1688:


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## LionelRookie (Nov 11, 2011)

*This is confusing!*

I was reading my post again and when I am on te how page I ave two threads; one s for a 1688 and the second for a 1668. 

Mine for sure is the 1688. Yes I have much bigger gears and anything close to a switch it derails. 

Elfge; how does your 1688E unit do? Does the E make a difference? 

I guess I am after another loco, but this time a 1668. Of course the more exspensive one right 

Bryan


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

The 1688 and 1688E are really no different from each other functionally. I think some of the more experienced forum members said the 1688E came earlier when an E-unit was a novel innovation. The later models were just called the 1688 to simplify the name, but it still has an E-unit. TJ has done far more research than I have on the many subtle differences over the course of production.

The 1668 is my favorite of my pre-war locos since it seems to be the best combination of pulling power, switch compatibility, and cool streamliner looks!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Elj is correct ... the "E" designation was used intermittently by Lionel in the late 1930's ... around 1938, I think.

Early 1688's could be purchased with out without the E-unit, and correspondingly, with or without the E nameplate designation.

The choice of e-unit or not did not otherwise alter the mechanics of the motor and wheels (whether early-generation "Lionel Jr" style motors, or later-generation "Bakelite bottom" motors).

I believe the earliest generation 1688's had 8-spoked cast drive wheels, with the drive rods peened on to a stud on the rear wheels.

Later generation 1688's had 12-spoked case drive wheels, with the drive rods screwed on to the rear wheels.

Regards,

TJ


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