# Hornby oo and Piko or Trix Euro ho?



## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

I know comparisons have been done before on US HO and British oo. I see they are the same size as the smaller gauge ho American trains are larger in real life, but I cannot find anything about Euro trains compared with British. My son has Bachmann Thomas ho, and I ordered some Piko ho. I am looking at getting some Hornsby, but am unsure how it would look. Does anyone have comparison of Euro ho and British oo? What should they look like? In real life, are the British trains the same size, smaller, or larger than Euro? Thanks guys!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

This Wikipedia article may answer some of your questions.
Google 'Euro HO scale vs US HO scale' and you'll see various
pictures and listings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale

Don


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

Don, I appreciate the link, but I'm not going to run any US trains. I'm trying to learn about Euro HO and UK OO. Does the scale difference or sameness equal the real life models? Is it noticeable on track? Does someone have a Euro and British train side by side? Thanks!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Both European HO and U.S. HO (1:87) are to the same scale so British OO (1:76) trains are larger then their European counterparts. If you put the two side by side you wouldn't get an idea of the scale difference because you won't have anything to compare it to. You can only get a meaningful comparison by seeing an HO and OO model of the same loco side by side. Not impossible since some HO trains were made in the fifties and sixties in the UK. Some diehards still model it, here is a link:http://www.british-ho.com you might get an idea of size comparison here.

British and European HO is 3.5mm:1ft and British OO is 4mm:1ft. Sorry about the mixed measurements! This may give you an idea of the discrepancy.


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> Both European HO and U.S. HO (1:87) are to the same scale so British OO (1:76) trains are larger then their European counterparts. If you put the two side by side you wouldn't get an idea of the scale difference because you won't have anything to compare it to. You can only get a meaningful comparison by seeing an HO and OO model of the same loco side by side. Not impossible since some HO trains were made in the fifties and sixties in the UK. Some diehards still model it, here is a link:http://www.british-ho.com you might get an idea of size comparison here.
> 
> British and European HO is 3.5mm:1ft and British OO is 4mm:1ft. Sorry about the mixed measurements! This may give you an idea of the discrepancy.


Thanks, I know US trains are larger than British, and so the respective ho and oo scale models look the same size, but what are European trains? Would a German or Irish train in ho be smaller than a British oo? I read UK started ho modeling in '94, who manufactures British ho? Can they be bought still? My son has Thomas Bachmann ho, so we have some British already if they are the right scale. Not sure since they are special models, and I think hornby makes oo Thomas too.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I think you confusing the fact that the full size U.S. locos are bigger than the British ones. I say again HO whether it be American, British, Irish, French, Italian, German, Romanian etc is *all* to the scale of 3.5mm:1ft. British OO is 4mm:1ft, accounting for the difference in size. So *all* HO models will be smaller than the same loco in OO.

British HO, as I stated, started long before the nineties and was virtually dead by '94. There is no commercial support for British HO except from a few specialists. Did you not check out my link?


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## EMD_GP9 (Jun 19, 2012)

This photo may help although I don't have the same loco in H0 and 00 they are similar and show the differences.



The right loco is an Athearn F7 in H0 scale.
The centre loco is a Hornby class 37 in 00 scale.
The Left loco is a Marklin V200 in H0 scale.

As you can see the Hornby 00 scale loco is about the same size as the F7 although it is to 4mm/ft scale where the F7 is to 3.5mm /ft scale.
This is because the British loading gauge is much smaller than the USA or Europe and the 4mm/ft was chosen years ago to make a larger loco to house the large motors of the day while running on 16.5mm gauge track although the larger scale gives a scale track gauge of about 4 ft which looks odd.
The V200 is slightly smaller than both because the European loading gauge is larger than British but smaller than the USA.
All Hornby products are to 00 scale but they do have other companies in the group such as Rivarossi and Jouef who make European models in H0 scale.
Irish railways are a different case because the gauge is wider than standard at 5ft-3in so
to model properly would require custom trackwork !
As far as I know Irish locos are about the same size as British.
Hope this helps. Colin


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

EMD_GP9 said:


> This photo may help although I don't have the same loco in H0 and 00 they are similar and show the differences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! So, Euro trains are larger than UK. However, the UK OO trains look a tad bigger cause of scale, so it is not realistic, but not extremely noticeable either. Is that correct?


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> I think you confusing the fact that the full size U.S. locos are bigger than the British ones. I say again HO whether it be American, British, Irish, French, Italian, German, Romanian etc is *all* to the scale of 3.5mm:1ft. British OO is 4mm:1ft, accounting for the difference in size. So *all* HO models will be smaller than the same loco in OO.
> 
> British HO, as I stated, started long before the nineties and was virtually dead by '94. There is no commercial support for British HO except from a few specialists. Did you not check out my link?


I did, and saw a very few UK ho models from weird manufacturers.


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## EMD_GP9 (Jun 19, 2012)

> Thanks! So, Euro trains are larger than UK. However, the UK OO trains look a tad bigger cause of scale, so it is not realistic, but not extremely noticeable either. Is that correct?


It would only be noticeable if you had identical or similar prototypes in H0 and 00 running together.
As you say there are only specialist models available but at one time some European suppliers made a few H0 scale British models. One that springs to mind is the Rivarossi "Royal Scot " together with train which can sometimes be found on a certain auction site.
I think Lima tried it too.
Trix made something in-between at about 3.8mm/ft for some time but that differnce is not so noticeable unless two models of both scales are side by side.
Colin


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

EMD_GP9 said:


> It would only be noticeable if you had identical or similar prototypes in H0 and 00 running together.
> As you say there are only specialist models available but at one time some European suppliers made a few H0 scale British models. One that springs to mind is the Rivarossi "Royal Scot " together with train which can sometimes be found on a certain auction site.
> I think Lima tried it too.
> Trix made something in-between at about 3.8mm/ft for some time but that differnce is not so noticeable unless two models of both scales are side by side.
> Colin


Thanks Colin! Because this is the oo portion of the forum, Do you know if the Bachmann Thomas trains are modelled identical to the Hornby ones or if they are smaller, (true HO)? In the picture I attached, there is a Bachmann James next to a Mantua 0-4-0. They are not the same model, but I can see James is taller and larger, so since my son has all Bachmann Thomas trains, now I am wondering if I buy Euro HO if they would be smaller. If Bachmann copied Hornby exactly, maybe I should buy OO and try to find Euro OO to go with the UK Hornby and Tri-Ang. Are there Euro OO manufacturers or would mixing the two scales be my best option?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You have to realise that the Thomas trains are not marketed as serious scale models so may not be made to an exact scale. They are for the toy market.

You are not going to find any European OO. You can run HO next to your Thomas stuff but because of the foregoing they are going to look odd together, I'm afraid it's just something you have to accept.


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