# Advice please for using bridges in my layout



## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

Hey there. 
New here so forgive me if this has been asked before since I don't see a search function within the forum. 
And if there are already answers feel free to provide helpful links....

About my layout.....
It's for a Lionel which I've had since the mid 70's. 
I recently built a bench which is approx 5 1/2' wide X 8' long. 
I would like to change it on occasion rather than build or add permanent scenery. 
I have two bridges. 
One is of the girder style which I've had for years but never set up. 
http://di1-2.shoppingshadow.com/ima...onel+Nyc+Girder+Bridge+Metal+Base+In+The+.jpg
The other is a wooden bridge which I just got for Christmas. http://www.ehobbies.com/lnl624117.html

Here's my questions about what I would need to know:
I'm planning to go to a model train show/sale next month. 
What should I look for to buy to set them up with?
Would it be possible to run a track under the girder bridge?
If I don't get lucky at the train show, is there a place to buy the needed stuff online? Any suggested sites? 
I'm having a hard time finding pics of them set up in a layout on Google. If there are any pics that would be helpful. 
Thanx.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Cool covered bridge, I like it. 

You can run a track under the bridge, obviously you'll have to have the proper base for the layout to go down the 6" required to clear the bridge. Remember, you'll want to keep it to about a 4% grade, so you'll have to 12 feet of track going down and coming back up for the grade.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm an HO Guy so can't help besides to say on the top of the forum page right under your name on the gray line is the search. The other is to check out the gallery's of some of the O guys/gals they have some great layouts.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

There's a near-identical real covered RR bridge at Clark's Trading Post in NH ... do a Google image search ("Clark's Trading Post bridge")for some ideas of bridge setting, weathering, etc.

That bridge has a river running underneath it.










TJ


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

As always, whenever I get an answer to a question, more questions arise from the answer. 
Please bear with me.....



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Cool covered bridge, I like it.


Yeah. I feel lucky to have such a nice gf. 



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can run a track under the bridge, obviously *you'll have to have the proper base for the layout to go down the 6" required to clear the bridge.* Remember, you'll want to keep it to about a 4% grade, *so you'll have to 12 feet of track going down and coming back up for the grade.*


I don't get by what you mean by the points I highlighted in bold. 
Is there another way to put it so I can understand what you mean?

And I dunno if this is relevant to give you a bit more understanding of where I'm coming from. This is the first time the layout has ever been used on a bench.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, if you want a train to go under the bridge, the bridge obviously has to be elevated sufficiently to clear the train under it, right? Since those bridges are grade level bridges, it follows that the train going under will be going in a valley of sorts.

As far as the grade, the rule of thumb is a 4% grade. That means that you go up or down 1" for ever 25" of distance. If you want 6" of elevation, that's 150" of travel for the grade.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, if you want a train to go under the bridge, the bridge obviously has to be elevated sufficiently to clear the train under it, right? Since those bridges are grade level bridges, it follows that the train going under will be going in a valley of sorts.
> 
> As far as the grade, the rule of thumb is a 4% grade. That means that you go up or down 1" for ever 25" of distance. If you want 6" of elevation, that's 150" of travel for the grade.



He doesn't have to have any grade, just enough (6") for the train to go under it. Why can't it be level?

Most all the covered bridges I have seen go over a river. And most were for wagons or vehicles to use.

I don't remember ever seeing one for a train.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Great Ed, but if he wants trains on both levels, they have to get there first.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

Did you see the one I showed above? In NH. I've been over it a few times with the kids. Great fun.

TJ


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Great Ed, but if he wants trains on both levels, they have to get there first.


OK here's what I'm thinking of doing:
For the girder bridge: 
It would be just one track on it with a single track going underneath flat on the bench. Would a set of trestles work? Is this what you meant gunrunnerjohn?
http://www.lionel.com/products/find...ywords=&CategoryID=524&RailLineID=&CatalogId=
I don't really feel like spending 50 clams. 
So is this what I should look for at the model train show?
Any suggestions for a substitute? 

For the covered: It would probably sit on some type of ground type stuff as seen in this pic: http://www.ehobbies.com/lnl624117.html
with fake water underneath. 
Perhaps I could build this using a piece of plywood as the base so it could be portable?
And the covered, if it's up at the same time as the girder, would be in a separate area of the track. 

And again, does anyone know of any pics of what I'm asking for on the forum or on the net?
It seems like want I want to do is pretty unique. 
But is it doable and if so, any further advice on how to do it would be helpful.
Thanx again.


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

If you can use a ruler and a saw, and do basic trigonometry, you can make your own trestles/ramp. No need to spend $50 when some scrap lumber and a little ciphering will fix you right up.

The manual's short on specifics for this particular bridge (like how thickness of the bottom), but you should verify how much elevation gain you need. For example, everything I run (strictly pre-war) could get by with 4" between the top of the rail and the bottom of the bridge. Other equipment may require higher clearance. Add up your track height, your equipment height, and the thickness of the bridge, and you'll figure out how high you need to go. No reason to stick your track a mile in the air if you don't need to. As pointed out earlier, at 4% grade every inch of elevation is another of 25" of ramp you need to build.

FYI, some Lionel trestle sets are 4-3/4" high; some are 6" high. Is there a reason you couldn't use 6-12754 for $30?


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

Konga Man said:


> If you can use a ruler and a saw, and do basic trigonometry, you can make your own trestles/ramp. No need to spend $50 when some scrap lumber and a little ciphering will fix you right up.
> 
> The manual's short on specifics for this particular bridge (like how thickness of the bottom), but you should verify how much elevation gain you need. For example, everything I run (strictly pre-war) could get by with 4" between the top of the rail and the bottom of the bridge. Other equipment may require higher clearance. Add up your track height, your equipment height, and the thickness of the bridge, and you'll figure out how high you need to go. No reason to stick your track a mile in the air if you don't need to. As pointed out earlier, at 4% grade every inch of elevation is another of 25" of ramp you need to build.
> 
> FYI, some Lionel trestle sets are 4-3/4" high; some are 6" high. Is there a reason you couldn't use 6-12754 for $30?


By your reply, I take it that graduated trestles could work for a girder?

As for building my own trestles, that's not a bad idea. I suppose I could look into it unless you have a link or a book suggestion that describes how to do it. 

I'm very frugal. I'll first look into saving bucks and buying used or cheaper than new before breaking down and paying full price. (Amazon, thrift stores, etc.) 
Thanks for the link. That gives me an idea of what to look for now.


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

TimTheTrainMan said:


> By your reply, I take it that graduated trestles could work for a girder?


If you mean for the Lionel girder bridge that you own: I have no idea. One would certainly hope that trestles and bridges would be compatible (seems a logical pairing, no?), but I have mistakenly assumed sensibility before.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can typically pick up the trestles for $10-15 on eBay if you look, I have a couple of sets of them.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, is that track underneath the bridge a separate circuit from the trains running on the bridge?


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can typically pick up the trestles for $10-15 on eBay if you look, I have a couple of sets of them.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're trying to say, is that track underneath the bridge a separate circuit from the trains running on the bridge?


Thanx for the ebay advice....

No. It would all be the same track/circuit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If they're on the same layout, then you are going down a grade to get to the track section under the bridge, right? That was the point I was trying to make.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Here's a useful site, if you want to build your own trestles from scratch:

http://www.trainweb.org/tomfassett/models/trestle01/


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

Reckers said:


> Here's a useful site, if you want to build your own trestles from scratch:
> 
> http://www.trainweb.org/tomfassett/models/trestle01/


On second thought, after seeing what does exist out there, (Graduated trestles) and getting confirmation that it can work with the girder bridge (Right? Correct me if I'm wrong on this...) now I know what to look for either at the model train show/sale or from ebay or other sources. 

If I could build easier trestles, like the ones Lionel sells, that may be more doable for me.


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

Anything on how to build a small raised landscape for the covered wooden bridge?
I looks like ya all use styrofoam to raise the tracks with. 
I suppose I could do that and then put some type of landscape stuff on top to make it look like floral and fauna or gravel?
What do you think?
Any links or book suggestions on how to do such a thing?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Tons of books.  I'm not much of an artist, so those parts are the hardest for me as well.  I can make the trains run and fix them, when it comes to building mountains, I leave that to other folks here in the forum.


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Tons of books.  I'm not much of an artist, so those parts are the hardest for me as well.  I can make the trains run and fix them, when it comes to building mountains, I leave that to other folks here in the forum.


I'll probably start with the library system. 
If not, then hobby shops. 

My main plan for my layout is to keep it liquid. I don't want any permanent mnts or landscapes. I want to be able to change it from time to time so I don't get too bored with the train going over the track the same ways over and over again. 
(I know that you weren't suggesting I build mnts john. I just wanted to share my goals/ideas for this layout.) 

If anyone else has anything to write or share in regards to my bridge ideas/questions, feel free to share.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Let us know what you end up with. I'm thinking on the same kind of issues here. I think I want my trolley line to go underground and come up on the other side of the layout. I have to figure out how to make that happen and look right.


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I think I want my trolley line to go underground and come up on the other side of the layout. I have to figure out how to make that happen and look right.


Use 2 disconnected trolleys with a delay. :laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I really don't want to buy two identical trolleys, so I think I'll try to figure this out with one.


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> There's a near-identical real covered RR bridge at Clark's Trading Post in NH ... do a Google image search ("Clark's Trading Post bridge")for some ideas of bridge setting, weathering, etc.
> 
> That bridge has a river running underneath it.
> 
> ...


Thanx. 
Yeah, after thinking about it and based on this I've been inspired to paint the bridge to give it a weathered look. 
I could have left it as is as grey, (Looks like Lionel already made it look a bit worn) but what fun would that have been?


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Let us know what you end up with.


Yeah. 
I'm thinking of posting pics of my progress. (Try saying that fast 3 times.)
Where shall I post?
Here or in one of the photo sections?
And if it's the latter, which one?


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

TimTheTrainMan said:


> *Anything on how to build a small raised landscape for the covered wooden bridge?*
> I looks like ya all use styrofoam to raise the tracks with.
> I suppose I could do that and then put some type of landscape stuff on top to make it look like floral and fauna or gravel?
> What do you think?
> Any links or book suggestions on how to do such a thing?





gunrunnerjohn said:


> Tons of books.


I just thought of another question:

The plan would be to have the bridge suspended over fake water. 
Each end would be held up by land. 
Just like this picture :http://www.lionel.com/products/ProductNavigator/_ProductImages_590/6-24117_1563.jpg
For me to find how to do this in a book or online or here on the forum what would the proper terminology be?
What key words shall I use?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The covered bridge. It depends on your detail. Some have open sides with a trestle cross member. To build you can find a black foam core poster board. Glue or hot glue. The sides, find a weathered picture of a side of a barn and paste. I use the technique in "papertown". Search "water" for the supplies. Build up the land with foam. Roof, find a dark fine sandpaper or black thin foam. other techniques are scratch building as in the diorama and plaster hydrocal. You can use quarter inch maple or birch plywood too, like a doll house approach. Styrene is another possibilty, the stuff they use for signs that is designed like corrugated cardoard, if you can find it.

Maybe this will inspire you. It's close to a covered bridge.


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## TimTheTrainMan (Jan 16, 2011)

I already have this type of bridge. http://www.lionel.com/products/ProductNavigator/_ProductImages_590/6-24117_1563.jpg

What I want to do is create some type of a grade leading up to it on both ends and then cover the grade/ground with some type of landscaping.
And I plan to have the bridge edges sit on a rock type looking thing. Just like the real ones where it's cut rock.
I also would like to have the whole thing on a plywood board so that it can be removed or moved around on the bench. 

I just need to know if there are any search terms to get me started on my research into this project or do I just dive in and try to figure it out on my own?

How unique is this project?


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