# MY NEW INTEREST: EUROPEAN TRAINS



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I've been an HO modeler for a LOOOOOOOng time, pretty well content with it. But many years ago my interest in British railways was piqued by seeing, of all things, Derek Carter's "Tales from Turkey Bay" cartoon series in RMC and a column in MR I think, of a British prototype steam engine being imported at the time by Chester Holley.
That locomotive was a Triang BR M7. How odd it looked to me compared to U.S. stuff. The strange 0-4-4 wheel arrangement and the massive hook and loop couplers were so different from what I was used to ,and I had never seen European trains in person so it was hard for me to imagine running one with my equipment. Plus,in 1982 where would I get one?
Fast forward to a few months ago. I saw an interesting British locomotive listed for sale on this forum, and through some dealing with my now friend Wolferz, I had the beginnings of a OO collection. That's how I got the LMS train.









An LMS compound 4-4-0 and 3 coaches with passengers, Beautiful! Runs very nicely. Hornby with Tender drive, Coaches are Bachmann. A little too much train for our little layout!
So here we go! Bug Bite. I then stumbled across a British Railways (BR) 2-6-0 "Ivatt" at an Antique mall and struck a deal.
Neat locomotive that reminds me of a Pensylvania G5, and it runs very well. It runs along kind of slowly and has a nice gait. A real joy to behold. And naturally there had to be some goods wagons.

















Now the snowball is rolling , so I started looking for my old friend, The M7. Dug around a little on Ebay and what do you know? A mint Hornby BR M7 courtesy of train shop in Derbyshire! 
The first trip around the layout was very interesting and my little gem didn't disappoint. really strange watching it chug along balanced on the front coupled drivers. Of course a coach was required so I found this Hornby Ex LMS BR Brake coach at my favorite train shop.









Did some research and found one of the prototype M7's was at steam town for a while before being taken back to England.
Now it starts getting tricky. Eras. The bane of my OO existence. Equipment has to be era correct, and coupler correct.
The first three engines are Hornby, couplers match. Now comes the Fowler 0-6-0. Cool little locomotive made by Airfix, British OO but with the smaller Euro couplers. Runs great!(You were right, Cycleops). Now starting to gather wagons for this one.:goofball:









Now a Tri-ang class 36 diesel, later era lettered for BR intercity.
And........Coaches! Coaches are Lima, again found at my favorite Hobby shop. See how this goes? In case you missed it, this is how I "thin" my collection.:eyes:

















Now I'm certainly no expert on these things, so feel free to comment on these car types and correct eras, etc. For storage sake I'm holding to rakes of 2 coaches, and I will need to add 1 coach to the M7 rake.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Hehehe! The old UK 00 coupler conundrum met you have. Many of us who model UK are actually switching to Kadees for the reason you mentioned as well as for other reasons.
Aside from that...enjoy!!


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Yes G, I'm thinking there are at least 4 different coupler types? Even the ones with Euro style aren't necessarily the same height.
I'll leave them as is because I am just not that ambitious.
Now to mix it up a little this one is European HO, A Fiat diesel 445, FS. Made by Lima, probably the smoothest running locomotive I've ever had. I do have some wagons, or freight cars( I don't know) arriving soon so this one can earn it's keep.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Nice one TW. Interesting to see somebody's interested in European/UK trains from across the pond. I currently don't have any OO trains as I've always been at odds with the scale/track gauge discrepancy and the horn hook couplers have never appealed. I much prefer the Kadee types on US trains which is what drew me to them in the first place. 

I've recently bought a Roco DB diesel with sound which I'm very pleased with and fitted it with Kadees, which you can now do with all European trains due to the NEM coupler pockets. Strangely it doesn't like the frogs on my Peco 83 track. That Fiat is very nice. Lima used to make diesels and steamers for the US market and they have very good mechanisms.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> Nice one TW. Interesting to see somebody's interested in European/UK trains from across the pond. I currently don't have any OO trains as I've always been at odds with the scale/track gauge discrepancy and the horn hook couplers have never appealed. I much prefer the Kadee types on US trains which is what drew me to them in the first place.
> 
> I've recently bought a Roco DB diesel with sound which I'm very pleased with and fitted it with Kadees, which you can now do with all European trains due to the NEM coupler pockets. Strangely it doesn't like the frogs on my Peco 83 track. That Fiat is very nice. Lima used to make diesels and steamers for the US market and they have very good mechanisms.


 Nice looking diesel. There are a few guys here with Euro stuff(right, G?). I find these trains interesting.
My class 36 Tri-ang has a little trouble because of the wide tread wheels, the Ivatt is a nightmare on switches because of the huge flanges. It was bought new from AMRO, Paul's RR shop, way way back when.
I'm planning on posting some track comparisons in a few days.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Well the UK manufacturers over the past say 20 years at least ,settled on the horn-hook coupler, albeit each with their own slightly different design/size. Generally they were compatible athough they were never able to come to a height standard until very recently.
Unlike North American were we generally all accept NMRA standards in height above rails of the coupler pockets etc for many years, the Brits are only just coming around to standards not only of coupler pocket height but mechanism also. Almost all UK and European manufacturers have now accepted the NEM coupler pocket design and height standard....as an example.....15 years ago Bachmann and Hornby were a nightmare if you wanted to change couplers to something more unobtrusive like Kadee....even within the same manufacturer it could be problematic. Now...generally speaking, just slip a Kadee 18,19 or 20 coupler into the NEM pocket and bobs-your-uncle.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Bachmann Class66


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Wow! That 66 eats up some real estate doesn't it? Nice!
Hey, Cycleops, I can't quite see in the photo but is your diesel a CoCo?


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

TW, nice stuff, how big is your layout????


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

It's 4 by 8. Freight trains look good going around there, no problem. But running scale length passenger coaches, especially three of them looks a little tight!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Yes, it's a Co-Co wheel arrangement. Here's a better pic. The weathering is factory applied.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

There you go! I'm guessing that it runs as good as it looks. I have a DB Bo-Bo diesel sitting at my house right now that came in the mail while I've been away, I won't get to take a look at it until later tonight.
Now I have a question or two. Would the train that the Fiat locomotive is pulling have a caboose or guards coach or something on the rear? Also, would it be correct to run my BR Steamers without a brake van?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I think it was mainly UK and Australian trains that had a seperate guards van. All UK trains would have had a guards van during the steam era and for some time after. I'm not really an expert, maybe someone else will chip in with a better answer.

Interestingly British Railways gave most of their diesel locos and frieght stock official names to identify them. One type of brake van was a "toad" and there were "Sea Cow" and "Sea Lion" ballast wagons. There was a 0-6-0 class14 diesel called a "Teddy Bear".


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

My Terrier with some of my goods and milk wagons in front of the factory I built on the club layout.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

J72 with brake van.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

The Terrier would be more like Era 2?
I think the J72 would be more era 4/5?
I'm shooting for era 4/5 because of the Ivatt, and then the M7 being in black paint.
Nice pics!


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Duplicate removed


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

time warp said:


> The Terrier would be more like Era 2?
> I think the J72 would be more era 4/5?
> I'm shooting for era 4/5 because of the Ivatt, and then the M7 being in black paint.
> Nice pics!


The era would depend on which railway the Terrier was being used by...they were in service from 1872-1968....so eras2-6
The one in the photo would be eras2-3 in that livery.

The J94, not J72( my mistake) is era 5, late crest..........

Here is a rough breakdown of the UK steam eras,

UK rail era 1. Pioneering (1804 - 1874) 
UK rail era 2. Pre-grouping (1875 - 1922) 
UK rail era 3. The Big Four - LMS, GWR, LNER & SR (1923 - 1947) 
UK rail era 4. BR steam. Early Crest (1948 - 1956) 
UK rail era 5. BR steam. Late Crest (1957 - 1966) 
UK rail era 6. BR Corporate Blue. Pre -TOPS (1967 - 1971) 
UK rail era 7. BR Corporate Blue. Post -TOPS (1972 - 1982) 
UK rail era 8. BR Sectorisation (1983 - 1994)
UK rail era 9. Post-privatisation (1995 - 2011) 

And diesel eras.

UK rail era 4. BR steam. Early Crest (1948 - 1956) 
UK rail era 5. BR steam. Late Crest (1957 - 1966) 
UK rail era 6. BR Corporate Blue. Pre -TOPS (1967 - 1971) 
UK rail era 7. BR Corporate Blue. Post -TOPS (1972 - 1982) 
UK rail era 8. BR Sectorisation (1983 - 1994) 
UK rail era 9. Post-privatisation (1995 - 2011)


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

TW, it sure looks bigger than 4x8. Very nice European trains.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Genetk44, Are you holding to a specific era, or "winging it"? Thanks for the chronology, that is helpful. (I'm learnin' sumpin')! I've got to study some on the Break/ Brake van conundrum.
jlc41, Thank you, but yeah it's 4x8. Deception, you see. Close shots and lots of crowded in scenes break it up to deceive the eye. You may not realize how yours appears too others. It looks larger because as your work progress it tends to draw attention to certain elements. You don't see the edges anymore.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

time warp said:


> Genetk44, Are you holding to a specific era, or "winging it"? Thanks for the chronology, that is helpful. (I'm learnin' sumpin')! I've got to study some on the Break/ Brake van conundrum.
> jlc41, Thank you, but yeah it's 4x8. Deception, you see. Close shots and lots of crowded in scenes break it up to deceive the eye. You may not realize how yours appears too others. It looks larger because as your work progress it tends to draw attention to certain elements. You don't see the edges anymore.


I'm not dogmattically sticking to an era per se. I tend to try to stick to the transition era between steam and diesel....basically GWR and Late Crest BR.....that allows me to run both GWR green and BR black livery in steam and the green diesel livery....but as you can see I also have a bit of modern EWS livery as per some goods wagons and the 66 aka Shed.

Just to grossly over-simplify...Brake van sort of equals our caboose...


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Here's what I find: 
Originally " break" van, should a wagon coupling(chain) break, allowing the rear section of the train to be manually stopped or halted.
Later "brake" van, after improved couplings, also providing for a guard, or watchman, at the rear of the train.
Guards van, see above, later eras I believe.
Question is, say on an era 4/5 train, vacuum brakes are in use. Guards van? Or, would it be permissible to run with no Brake van/ guards van?
Bearing in mind that said guards van also is in use to hold the train stationary in event the locomotive should be disconnected.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

If you're interested in the "crossover" period or thereabouts you might like to look at this news article. Dr Beeching was an advisor to the government who wanted to rationalise the railways. There were too many regional lines which were loosing money. Even spawned a sitcom in the UK.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beeching-report-50-years-on-1787519


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

time warp said:


> Here's what I find:
> Originally " break" van, should a wagon coupling(chain) break, allowing the rear section of the train to be manually stopped or halted.
> Later "brake" van, after improved couplings, also providing for a guard, or watchman, at the rear of the train.
> Guards van, see above, later eras I believe.
> ...


To be honest...I'm no expert on brake vans and their use or exact timeframe for phasing-out. Some of the guys at my lcal UK railway club are but not me.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

More info on brake-vans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_van


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Cycleops, I read the somewhat depressing article, thanks for the link. Informative.
I guess my model railway or railroad imagination always considers things to be perfect. That's why it's always summer on my layout.
Genetk44, I gleaned from Wiki that my era needs to always have brake vans. Thanks.


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

Glad you are enjoying the new bug, mate! I've always found the British and Euro trains to be more romantic. With world-famous trains like the Flying Scotsman and Orient Express that I'm slowly building, all I need is a permanent layout!


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

You'll have to share some pictures here, Wolferz! I just wanted to have a couple of British steamers to enjoy, and Oh well.

I had posted here that I was looking for Hornby track for my OO stuff, not realizing at the time that it was Tri-ang track that I needed. Particularly since my Ivatt has old style large flanges that will not negotiate standard HO code 100 switches. So I purchased some from a fellow in Australia, and when it showed up here is what I found:











This is the comparison between standard Code 100 track and what I have since learned is Tri- ang Series 3 track. Big difference in rail height and style as well as tie spacing. The next picture shows the radius difference. The Tri-ang is around a 16" radius compared to the standard 18" track on the outside. Now to scare up some "points", to see how they work out.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

That's odd, I would have thought code100 would cope with most UK wheel standards from the past thirty or so years. That Triang track must be ancient.

Funnily enough my recently purchased Roco German diesel doesn't like the frogs on my Peco code83 US turnouts so can't be that fine.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

The Ivatt is the only one. It goes mountain climbing over every frog! My money would have been on the Class 36 to have more problems due to the wide wheels
Old track is right! I'd put it around code 125 plus. There is a fair amount of it listed on eBay including points and diamonds.
It's possible, not likely, that I have a little bit of an out of gauge problem with the Ivatt drivers. I'll have to check it should I ever get time.
You may have your work cut out for you on the diesel! I had one that I fiddled with for a few years before I found the trouble. OK now.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I've tried it on some Peco code100 turnouts and it's fine on them.


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

time warp said:


> You'll have to share some pictures here, Wolferz! I just wanted to have a couple of British steamers to enjoy, and Oh well.


Well mate, here goes... It's not all my trains and you'll have to forgive my not having a layout. One day I will! Some are British OO and others are European HO  The forum is not allowing uploads at the moment, so hopefully the public album I uploaded to FB will show here. Please let me know if there are problems viewing?

First up are the OO, and what better to start with than the most famous train in the world: The Flying Scotsman









Second is the Princess Elizabeth pulling a rake of LMS coaches









Third is a Great Western Pannier pulling some goods wagons, of which the Texas one I got from time warp 









Fourth is Thomas pulling Annie and Clarabel. Although this one is technically a Bachmann HO set, we have both Bachmann US and Hornby UK Thomas range trains.









Next is some European HO passenger sets. I don't have a goods loco to take a picture of a goods train, but time warp is fixing that for me  First is possibly the second most famous train in the world: The Orient Express pulled by a BR 18









Second is the Rheingold Express pulled by a BR 01.5 that I am letting go of to acquire an original BR 01 that was more prototypical of pulling this train.









Next is a KPEV set, pulled by a Bavarian G 3/4H









Finally, some Electric action with an SBB CFF set I am starting to build


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Wow! Nice! Those passenger trains are very graceful looking and a nice mix of coaches too! That had had to take a while to set all up I'm sure.
Is that the Pannier that's for sale?
My hope is that when you get your layout started you're able to have a large station scene where all of these can be seen and admired.
Thanks for letting us see them, and I know that there are more! :laugh:


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

time warp said:


> Wow! Nice! Those passenger trains are very graceful looking and a nice mix of coaches too! That had had to take a while to set all up I'm sure.
> My hope is that when you get your layout started you're able to have a large station scene where all of these can be seen and admired.
> Thanks for letting us see them, and I know that there are more! :laugh:


LOL, It did take a few hours to unpack, set up, take the photo, and put away; but it was fun doing it! Isn't that what collecting trains is all about? Of course, my son got to play with some afterwards! I'll have to post a photo of my mixed goods train once the class 66 gets to me.:smilie_daumenpos:

We have plans to put a building on the property to build the layout in. I'm hoping to make on 24x24, but it may be different.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You'll have fun building the catenary for the Swiss electric wolfy. There's a lot of variety in the European stuff. Nice collection.


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

Thanks Cycleops!


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

There have been some times in my life when my layout would be built on a sheet of plywood that I could keep under my bed. I'm thankful for what we now have.
That Pannier is a neat little loco.


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

time warp said:


> There have been some times in my life when my layout would be built on a sheet of plywood that I could keep under my bed. I'm thankful for what we now have.
> Isn't that Pannier the one that's currently for sale? Neat little loco.


Yes, mate. The Pannier pulling the goods wagons is for sale as is the BR 01.5 pulling the Rheingold Express set.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

This is a German (DB) class V160 or class 216 diesel, depending on era. Used for passenger or freight service. V16 engine with hydraulic 2 speed transmission. Wow.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

The V160 was quite a ubiquitous loco which can be seen in service all over Germany. What make me s it? Is it a good runner? Era 1V? I would like to get one eventually but am looking for a small switcher right now.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I'm not sure of the make, I'll have to look. I think it will run good, but it needs serviced. Looks to me like it's been around a while.

I'll have to do a little research on the era, this is new to me!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

That's what I thought, the current European stuff is much more detailed but like you say I'm sure it'll be a good runner.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Cycleops, the DB diesel is a Lima, nothing wrong with it other than needs lubed. Don't know about the era though.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> The V160 was quite a ubiquitous loco which can be seen in service all over Germany. What make me s it? Is it a good runner? Era 1V? I would like to get one eventually but am looking for a small switcher right now.


Cycleops....if you want a European switcher I highly recommend this little guy...DB class V60 by Roco.

As with all the German and Austrian models when brand new, they aren't cheap but the detail, build and running qualities are all excellent...this one is a particularily good slow runner.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Genetk44 said:


> Cycleops....if you want a European switcher I highly recommend this little guy...DB class V60 by Roco.
> 
> As with all the German and Austrian models when brand new, they aren't cheap but the detail, build and running qualities are all excellent...this one is a particularily good slow runner.
> 
> View attachment 222274


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Thanks Genetk44 in fact that was one I was looking at. It seems it comes in various liveries for different eras which I'm still trying to figure out. The bigger Roco diesel I have is an excellent runner but it seems the wheel flanges are not too fine as it has trouble negotiating my Peco code 83 turnouts, very odd. I guess I'll have to do a German layout with code100.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> .....lThe bigger Roco diesel I have is an excellent runner but it seems the wheel flanges are not too fine as it has trouble negotiating my Peco code 83 turnouts, very odd. I guess I'll have to do a German layout with code100.


You mean your Class220 Taiga Trommel?...has trouble with the code 83 peco turnouts? Well besides the obvious possibility of wheel gauge issues I think the earlier( say pre2005) European locos very often had tight wheel gauges and/or slightly larger flanges but I think those are past issues and the newer releases are up to par.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Yes, that's the one. It's very odd, just looking at the wheel flanges they seem quite fine but they lift slightly going through the code 83 turnouts. I've tried it on code 100 and it's fine. Looks like I'll have to build a German only layout. The model is about two years old but no longer available according to the Roco website.

I've been trying to determine if it's DB or DR. I know it was built in the DR era. It's listed as DB by Roco but I haven't been able to find any pics of the actual loco, it's listed as a Class 220-2. There's no DB loco on it either.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

DB being the earlier era?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Deutsche Bundesbahn was the name for German railways in the post war period up until today. Deutsche Reichsbahn was the state railway in the former communist Germany. Many locos of course from the former DR continued in service with DB, such my 220, so the two overlapped.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> Yes, that's the one. It's very odd, just looking at the wheel flanges they seem quite fine but they lift slightly going through the code 83 turnouts. I've tried it on code 100 and it's fine. Looks like I'll have to build a German only layout. The model is about two years old but no longer available according to the Roco website.
> 
> I've been trying to determine if it's DB or DR. I know it was built in the DR era. It's listed as DB by Roco but I haven't been able to find any pics of the actual loco, it's listed as a Class 220-2. There's no DB loco on it either.


It's is a DB loco. Epoch 5. The -2 at the end of the number means it had driving controls at both ends of the loco.Here is a chart giving the Epoch breakdown...they use Epoch instead of Era on the continent.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Genetk44, You keep posting stuff like this and were all going to have to pay tuition!
Many thanks!


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

time warp said:


> Genetk44, You keep posting stuff like this and were all going to have to pay tuition!
> Many thanks!


Glad to help..thats what these forums are about...and it keeps my mind awake and interested. 
When I got interested in model railroads about 15 years ago my primary focus was German and British railways...so I was a member of a number of German and UK model railway forums and still am. 
I only got interested and moved my focus to North American,primarily Canadian, model railways about 7-8 years ago.
Anyways...I still have my German and UK forums and links available so its fairly easy and quick for me to look up this kind of info, plus Google is an awesome resource also.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Well, I do appreciate the help. I too stay involved to keep my mind "activated". Isn't that what a hobby is for?
Thanks.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

time warp said:


> Genetk44, You keep posting stuff like this and were all going to have to pay tuition!
> Many thanks!


Seconded. Thanks.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I finally located the picture of my inspiration(see post #1) from decades ago. It was in an old RMC "test track" article from way back. Glad I finally got one.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Just a little kick on this subject....a small slideshow of pics and some info about my local British club here in Montreal...I hope this link works ok.

http://brmna.org/slideshows/alslides.php


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Very enjoyable! Thanks for sharing!


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

time warp said:


> Cycleops, the DB diesel is a Lima, nothing wrong with it other than needs lubed. Don't know about the era though.


TW, Sorry I am just now seeing that you were having difficulty finding the backstory of that Lima Diesel. Here goes:

The series V 160 (1968: 216 series) denotes a diesel locomotive type of the DB . This is the first variant of the V160 family, which has been configured in postwar New construction of the German Railways as a single-engine large diesel locomotive for medium heavy haul service.

The first locomotives entered service on the Hamburg to Lübeck line, working push-pull double decked passenger trains, and replacing the BR 38.10 and BR 78 steam engines. The engines were also used on freight workings as well. On push-pull passenger working the locomotives were sometimes found in the middle of the train - which facilitated easier separation of carriages on route.

Since the 1990s the Class 216 locomotives started to work more on freight than on passenger trains because of the lack of steam heated passenger stock. Between 2000 and 2004 the Deutsche Bahn AG fleet was phased out, with the last locomotive being decommissioned in 2004. However several locomotives were sold to private operators, where they are still in use.

They began life late epoch 3 and were used all the way until era VI.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

time warp said:


> You'll have to share some pictures here, Wolferz! I just wanted to have a couple of British steamers to enjoy, and Oh well.
> 
> I had posted here that I was looking for Hornby track for my OO stuff, not realizing at the time that it was Tri-ang track that I needed. Particularly since my Ivatt has old style large flanges that will not negotiate standard HO code 100 switches. So I purchased some from a fellow in Australia, and when it showed up here is what I found:
> 
> ...


 Tried to get the old Tri-ang track going to no avail. Had it tacked down as the inner loop on our Christmas layout, but it's so old the rails keep getting out of gauge and you can't really spike them down because of the profile. Pulled it up, ain't fightin it no more!

Thanks for the DB V160 info Wolferz. Very helpful.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Time Warp....you should join one of the UK or Hornby/Triang forums and get help there...those are the guys who will be able to sort that stuff out.


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

Genetk44 said:


> Time Warp....you should join one of the UK or Hornby/Triang forums and get help there...those are the guys who will be able to sort that stuff out.


The modelrailforum linked on the upper right of this forum has some great people. They could probably help you tw.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Yes, I'm going to have to "reboot". The one Tri-ang diesel I have (Class 36) would traverse the old track ok, but it has the very wide, blunt flange wheels. The Hornby steamers weren't too keen on the old track with their finer wheels.
Neither the Class 36 nor the Nice old Hornby Ivatt will run through my code 100 switchwork, they don't like the frogs. Every other Brit or Euro machine I have runs fine through them. Turns out the old track was 12" radius by the way.


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

time warp said:


> Yes, I'm going to have to "reboot". The one Tri-ang diesel I have (Class 36) would traverse the old track ok, but it has the very wide, blunt flange wheels. The Hornby steamers weren't too keen on the old track with their finer wheels.
> Neither the Class 36 nor the Nice old Hornby Ivatt will run through my code 100 switchwork, they don't like the frogs. Every other Brit or Euro machine I have runs fine through them. Turns out the old track was 12" radius by the way.


As a last resort, you could file the flanges slightly.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

It doesn't seem to be the flanges, more the tire width. My solution is to keep them on the display oval only, not the operating layout. The Brit stuff is for show anyway. I just enjoy seeing it run.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

time warp said:


> It doesn't seem to be the flanges, more the tire width. My solution is to keep them on the display oval only, not the operating layout. The Brit stuff is for show anyway. I just enjoy seeing it run.


Have you checked the actual wheel gauge/back-to-back measurement with an NMRA gauge??


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I have checked the back to back on all the locomotive wheels, including tender. I found them about .008 to .010 narrow. So I went through my Brit equipment, the Tri-ang, Hornby, late model branchline as well as my coaches and found them all the same. The difference being the very wide wheel treads. l don't want to have to re gauge every axle, and some of them can't be.


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## Chops124 (Dec 23, 2015)

Well, Mr. Warp, the more I follow you the more I see we have 
in common. Both love North American old school, and both 
have been attacked by the British Invasion. My interest in 
OO dates from getting a Wren wind up set in 1966, and then 
I got pulled into Tyco, badly, in the past five years. Feel 
a bit divided in my loyalties. 

I tried holding costs down on the OO by using Atlas code 100
track and turnouts and crossings. What an error that was. 
The tender drives choked on the points and the rather 
attractive Bachmann stuff routinely flipped their pilot wheels
off the frogs. The deep flanged older OO would ride up on 
the frogs, as well, and equally so in the crossings. Finally 
bit the bullet and purchased a quantity of Hornby OO track
and have been quite pleased with the excellent quality. 

I see you've been having some trouble, too. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I haven't had trouble with any of my coaches, and I think all or most of the wagons have run ok. Its the old Ivatt and the class 36 that stub their toes. Since fall I really haven't worked with them other than gauging wheels. Hopefully I'll find time in few months to get them sorted out.
The Lord of the Isles is a beauty! Thanks for sharing.


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