# Power Supply for Lionel O Gauge



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Glad to find this forum. I’m new to model trains. I’m hoping to find information from your expertise on this forum. I recently acquired my first used Lionel O gauge train but the power supply it came with is not a Lionel brand. It has a 16 volt DC output. I’m wondering if I could use it to power the train. I’ll attach photos of the train and power supply.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I looked for a manual for 6-8568 at Lionel. Does your loco look like one of these? If your loco has one or two Pullmor motors like the ones pictured, it will run on either AC or DC. Lionel made a few locos in those days that would only run on DC, but most will run on either AC or DC. BTW, it looks to me like your MPC AMPACK has both an AC and a DC output.

View attachment 1982 F3.pdf


View attachment 18363Complete.pdf


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You can take the shell off to see if anything was modified in the engine. Some engines were only DC in the early 8o's.


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

The AMPACK 402 had variable DC for the train and a fixed AC output for accessories. Lehigh74's loco diagram seems to indicate the loco has AC universal motors (i.e., they'll run on AC or DC).

The issue is the capacity of the 402 at 20 VA (1.25 amps @ 16 V). That may not be enough to drive the dual motors in the F3.

I think you should try it with just the loco. If that gets the loco moving at any type of reasonable speed, then add cars. Once the the loco's draw exceeds the 402's limits, it will shut down.

At that point, an optimum choice for a transformer upgrade would depend on your vision of trains in your future. A simple, seasonal Christmas tree set-up or building a multi-train layout in the basement, attic, where ever ...


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Thank you so much for all the replies. Yes my train looks like it’s the one in the manual. I will try running the train by itself on the DC output. The tracks have lots of oxidation from being stored for a while. I’ve been sanding them down with very fine steel wool. I’ll update how the set up goes...


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

I will eventually get a proper power supply for this train. I purchase items on EBay. If anybody can suggest a power supply on EBay that would work for this train, I would appreciate the item number so I’ll have an idea what to look for. I plan to run no more than 7 cars on this train. Thank you again.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Jfran123 said:


> I will eventually get a proper power supply for this train. I purchase items on EBay. If anybody can suggest a power supply on EBay that would work for this train, I would appreciate the item number so I’ll have an idea what to look for. I plan to run no more than 7 cars on this train. Thank you again.


Any Lionel Postwar transformer of 90 watts or higher would be sufficient for this locomotive. The very reliable 1033 Lionel transformer is available at usually a pretty good price.

Bill


----------



## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

the picture of the transformer says HO.


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Jfran123 said:


> Thank you so much for all the replies. Yes my train looks like it’s the one in the manual. I will try running the train by itself on the DC output. The tracks have lots of oxidation from being stored for a while. I’ve been sanding them down with very fine steel wool. I’ll update how the set up goes...


Sorry to tell you but ...

Don't use steel wool on tubular track. It strips the protective tinplate and leaves the underlying soft steel - prone to lots of red rust.

Use a "scotch Brite" pad, any sponge that has a "scrubber" side. Or those thin green scrubber sheets. Use either with 90%+ isopropyl alcohol (~$3 / qqt at any discount drug store).

If the track is badly rusted, you can use the scrubber with distilled white vinegar or consider replacing it. There's some bargains for old tubular track on eBay.


----------



## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Jfran123 said:


> Thank you so much for all the replies. Yes my train looks like it’s the one in the manual. I will try running the train by itself on the DC output. The tracks have lots of oxidation from being stored for a while. I’ve been sanding them down with very fine steel wool. I’ll update how the set up goes...


Using steel wool on the track will make it look better but it presents a hazard to the locomotive as the locos motor will attract the small pieces of the steel wool that are left on the track and eventually can short out the motor.
I am sure that others here will be able to advise better than I on cleaning track.
Good luck. And have FUN.


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

BTW: You should "change the oil" on the loco: remove old grease and give the gears and axles some fresh lube - light oil on the axles and grease on the gears.

Then I'd test it with the AMPACK "on the bench".


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Yes power supply does say HO scale.


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Okay I’ll check YouTube for some videos on “changing the oil” as I have never done this before...


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Nice looking locomotive. I agree, don't use steel wool. Use the green scotchbrite pads.
From any grocery store. That transformer is probably under powered for the engine.
Get a Lionel with 90 or more watts. Have fun. Better than the scotchbrite pads would be
new track. If you have a Menards check their track. They are about the cheapest for track.
I use Menards track and it is fine.


----------



## B&O Forever (Nov 17, 2016)

seayakbill said:


> Any Lionel Postwar transformer of 90 watts or higher would be sufficient for this locomotive. The very reliable 1033 Lionel transformer is available at usually a pretty good price.
> 
> Bill




Ditto on the 1033. There should be enough power to run the loco and a few accessories.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Don't just limit yourself to the 1033. You may want something with more power in the future. Take a look at all the PW transformers that are out there. If you want to use the whistle, make sure whatever you choose has that feature.

Also know that shipping will probably be substantial since these are heavy. Depending on where you live there may be a local hobby shop, train meets or a vendor that deals in PW transformers.

https://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lioneltransformers.htm


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

A little patience and bidding finesse and a Lionel PW 1033 can be had on eBay for <$30 shipped. If advertised as working and there's an issue, it can always be sent back as "not as described". Or we can recommend a well regarded restorer of Lionel PW transformers (e.g., checked/serviced/rebuilt PW 1033s for $35 but they'll also be a shipping charge).

That's where I'll be going for my next transformer purchase. I have enough prewar tinplate restoration projects in the works that for a few extra bucks, I won't need to mess around with the transformer.

The $35 1033s are listed near the bottom of the *This* page. Note the KW listing is an error. You won't get that for $30.


----------



## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

I have these two controllers that I can send to you. 
$10 + shipping for the 25 watt. 
$25 + shipping for the 60 Watt. 

They are just taking up space and they will get your train going on a simple track. they aren't the best if you want to run accessories / lights, etc.


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Thank you so much for all your suggestions. I’m learning much about older Lionel train. I did remove the cover on the train to see what the motor looks like. Is there a way to find out if the motor is a DC or AC motor? Also how do I check if the motor is burned out or still in running condition without connecting the motor to the power supply? I’m familiar with using a multitester.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Normally Ac but will operate on DC. When the motor looks like a can it is DC and has magnets for the field.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

As T-Man said, it will run on AC or DC. It’s called a universal motor. Lionel’s trade name was Pullmor motor. It looks pretty clean. I would just hook up DC leads from your MPC power pack to the chassis and pick up (or a test track) to test it.


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Thanks for the info about Pullmor motor. So do I hook up the positive lead to the center contact and negative lead to chasis? Photo attached.


----------



## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

im learning too but yes. i believe like the saying goes.. dont pee on the middle rail...

outter 2 are neutral and center hot. i think.. someone correct me if im wrong.. on reverse..it switches in train the hot and neutral to turn motor backwards?


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Thanks for the advice.. I’ll keep in mind not to pee in the middle of the rail... hehe. Okay I’m gonna hook up the wires as pictured.


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

One wire to the outside rail (wheels), the other wire to the center rail (pickup roller). Polarity doesn't matter, either wire to either connection point mentioned.

After all, it was made for an AC from a transformer. And AC switches polarity 60 times a second (60 Hz residential power).


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

Motor don’t turn after hooking up to power supply. Front bulb lights up but motor doesn’t turn. I’ve confirmed 16 volts on the tracks using a voltmeter. Is the motor probably burned out?


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Jfran123 said:


> Front bulb lights up but motor doesn’t turn. I’ve confirmed 16 volts on the tracks using a voltmeter. Is the motor probably burned out?


Not likely. 

Did you measured 16 V when the headlight was lit (i.e., with the engine connected to the transformer)? Or did you measure the voltage first and then connect the loco?

Try using the AC accessories terminals. They may have a little more oomph for a quick test.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Your 1 amp power pack doesn't have enough power to turn that motor. You should get a proper AC transformer before proceeding further. 1033 is good transformer but an LW is even better with 125 watts. They can be had for only slightly more than the 1033.

Pete


----------



## Jfran123 (Jan 2, 2020)

I measured voltage first then placed the loco. I’ll measure the voltage while the loco is on the tracks. I’ll also look into purchasing a transformer with a higher amp rating.


----------



## Railfan 8 (Jan 14, 2015)

Next to the motor toward the center of the engine is a coil assembly . This is the reversing unit for the engine.
The lever coming out of the bottom of the engine engages or disengages the reversing unit(referred to as an "E" unit). It appears to be a 3 position unit which will give you forward neutral reverse neutral forward as you power and unpower the track/engine.
The "E" unit could be turned off and in the neutral position. Increasing the power you should hear an initial "click" from the E unit using DC power if it is in the active position. Try moving the lever. You should see the lever(shaped like an L) on the side of the E unit. It should be in contact with a steel contact on the fiber board. This grounds one side of the coil activating the solenoid of the E unit. The engine also needs to be in an operating position (upright on the track or on the bench for it to work properly) It uses gravity to function properly. A second look at the motor /e unit the e unit is in the OFF position


Steve


----------

