# is it just me?



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Maybe I am getting out of touch. The prices of rolling stock is getting insane. The prices
of locomotives don't seem to bother me. I watch ebay a lot to keep up with prices on
model railroad items and to maybe come across what I think is a good deal. Here is some
examples of what I consider insane prices on rolling stock. Intermountain auto carriers
$89.00 EACH. Athearn bluebox kits for $12.00 to $20.00 and you still have to buy metal
wheels and knuckle couplers for them. Athearn RTR tank cars, 2 for $90.00. Tyco cars for
$8.00 to $17.00. Containers are all for $7.00 and up. Geez they are just a plastic box
with no bottom. Container cars are insane prices. These prices are not just asking prices, they are selling prices. What do you guys think?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

We have recent threads asking if model railroading is dying. These kind of prices are not helping. How in the world could a high school kid with no job ever get into this hobby.


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

I browse craigslist occasionally to see what's out there locally. People want insane prices for a bunch of Tyco junk. Because it's a set or it's their whole layout and they think it's worth all this money. Deals or at least decent prices can be had locally and at shows but it takes patience and careful looking.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have found a few types of sellers on EBay and their prices tend to fall into some basic categories / beliefs:

1. Anything old / vintage is valuable: Basically they believe that anything with age = money. They do not understand that the item may still be in production or is outdated. Often I see this with Antique dealers, Estate sales etc.

2. They compare it to other models based on the propto type and not the brand / line. Once again they do not understand the hobby.

3. They compare HO prices to Lionel prices. There is a collector's market for Lionel, not so much for older HO.

4. They do not understand that the item is old but was made by the millions. Then potentially copied by another brand and sold again by the millions.

5. Then there are the ones that just throw the item out there for .99 and hope for the best. I have done this and had a bidding ware start where the price sky rocketed for no reason I could understand. Was real happy it did though. 

I agree that many items are over priced. I just look at the bulk of items and search for what is not. There are deals there, they are just buried it the WWW garage sale.


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## HOTrainNut (Feb 17, 2016)

DCC is the monster that has both revitalized and killed model railroading. Its great in the aspect that you can easily control your whole layout with ease. But on the other side you have $500 and $600 locomotives! Again like someone else said how do we expect children to get involved in a hobby where it would cost them a months worth of wages from their minimum wage entry level jobs. So if you ask me the way to get children back into the hobby is every company should have an entry level locomotive with basic on board DCC and like bachmann has an app to control it with your smart phone or tablet. But the prices are downright ridiculous not to mention a basic HO layout 4x8 with some switches and track is still gonna run about $150 $200 for the wood, track, a power pack. Yeah dont understand these companies train of thoughts. But as the article in WSJ jounral said the average age of a model railroader is 64 years old.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

I had a pretty epic rant in another section about this.

The bottom line is this (old farts) - (no new farts) = less farts

We came down to the two main reasons that most more or less agreed upon. First is that prices and therefore manufacturers are indeed raping us to a point and secondly that there is nowhere near enough positive encouragement on the youth side of things to make children(parents included) feel welcome/comfortable. (comfortable as in welcome there at a club, not holding my hand).

I used to mow lawns to be able to buy an engine or a few cars. Cars were sub $10 and engines were sub $30 unless you were talking Atlas or Kato. Now a car is and easy $20-30 and engines are more or less $100(for DC) and up for more with $150-$225 being very common for DCC/sound.

I'm 39 and get along with most folks(I am outspoken), but I've seen some grumpy bastards in this hobby in my time. I would almost say its a 50/50 split. Makes it hard when you don't have room for a layout and 6 yr old who wants to do get into model trains. Took me a few places to find one good one so he would feel good about it(thats a problem in a hobby that the average age is 64).

This is not a cheap hobby, yes I know it never really was, but get a kid interested and have their parents take them to a hobby shop and their jaws will drop and their bowels will as well It a bad scene I think with everything priced near $100 and up for anything remotely decent.

I have not bought one new thing other than parts/pieces since getting back into HO with my son. Every engine has come from ebay and either been used in the box or supposedly new in the box. One's that come damaged go back and hopefully more come in good than bad lol.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I would have to agree with you. Thankfully, when I started my layout over 25 years ago, I also bought a lot of the old blue box kits at around $6 apiece. (I did have a Walthers dealership at the time) During construction of the layout, these old kits were built, Kadee couplers installed and either metal wheels or Kadee trucks were installed. Everything was lightly weathered before going on the layout. 

I probably have more than enough rolling stock, but am lacking in cars for east coast railroads. I was shocked when I started looking at the prices of rolling stock. I have picked up a few Kadee cars on Amazon at a fairly decent savings, but will probably not add any more mainly due to the cost. If I do run across a bargain I may buy. I store all of my locomotives and rolling stock on the layout with the use of hidden staging tracks and am getting close to running out of room so I probably won't be buying many more. 

I am still operating in the stone ages running DC only, which works fine for me as I am a lone operator and the layout is build mainly for switching. 

As for locomotives, I have ENUFF. The majority are first generation Atlas Alcos which are custom painted for my freelance railroad, although recently I have picked up a few DCC locomotives (with sound) mainly because I got a good deal and they fit right into my locomotive roster. One, a BLI heavy mike I picked up for $100. Not too bad, but I will probably taking the lead off of the speaker. I don't really need sound. I got my old Atlas Alcos for around $40 each and they still run as good as now. 

I am glad that the majority of what I have was purchased many many years ago because at todays prices, my budget wouldn't handle trying to buy what I now already have. 

I will admit that the detail on some of the new rolling stock is a lot better than what I have on my old Athearn blue box kits, but when these old cars are put into a train, weathered as they are, it is really hard to tell the difference from the more modern high dollar rolling stock. Also, I am the only person that I have to please.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Chet said:


> I would have to agree with you. Thankfully, when I started my layout over 25 years ago, I also bought a lot of the old blue box kits at around $6 apiece. (I did have a Walthers dealership at the time) During construction of the layout, these old kits were built, Kadee couplers installed and either metal wheels or Kadee trucks were installed. Everything was lightly weathered before going on the layout.
> 
> I probably have more than enough rolling stock, but am lacking in cars for east coast railroads. I was shocked when I started looking at the prices of rolling stock. I have picked up a few Kadee cars on Amazon at a fairly decent savings, but will probably not add any more mainly due to the cost. If I do run across a bargain I may buy. I store all of my locomotives and rolling stock on the layout with the use of hidden staging tracks and am getting close to running out of room so I probably won't be buying many more.
> 
> ...


Valid points Chet, but flip the coin and think if you were a new hobbyist or a child just entering the hobby or the parent of a child entering the hobby.

Blue Box kits are almost gone now(they are gone from most hobby shops). It's hard to find stuff you can still assemble.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

mopac said:


> The prices of rolling stock is getting insane. .... I watch ebay a lot to keep up with prices on model railroad items and to maybe come across what I think is a good deal.


Mopac,

You probably know this, but just to be sure that others reading this thread know this...

Don't bother looking at the asking prices on eBay. Some are way too high. Others area way too low -- but will climb in the bidding process. Look at what prices items actually sell for (under completed auctions).


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I do realize that. It can really get expensive to get into the hobby today because of the high prices. An out of state friend who has a huge home layout has helped a neighbor kid get into the hobby by helping him pick up decent equipment at swap meets and by trying to head him in the right direction by helping him stay away from junk and tutoring him along. Unfortunately, no many new modelers have this help.

I also agree with avoiding ebay. I do go there on occasion but many many times I have seen items bid up over retail price and for the most part, don't see many "deals" that could save money. I have no hobby shops up here and have to buy through on line retailers such as MB Klein and usually get what I want at a reasonable price instead of laying the ebay game.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I just got in the mail what they call a 'flyer' from Walther's. I was shocked at the
prices being asked for new HO freight cars, over 20.00...passenger cars
nearing 100.00 each. Hundreds of dollars for DCC Sound locos.

I'm far too conservative to pay those kinds of prices. I have the Bachmann EZ
DCC system. I bought it used from a guy who buys estates. I got it, 2
Bachmann DCC locos and about 20 or so freight cars for 125.00.
I buy all of my cars at train shows, 2.00 to 8.00 with Kadees and many
with metal wheels. I've found 2 Bachmann Spectrum locos for 25.00
each. One was brand new in the box never used.

You can have a big layout and not mortgage the house. Look around,
the values are out there.

Don


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

3.8TransAM said:


> Valid points Chet, but flip the coin and think if you were a new hobbyist or a child just entering the hobby or the parent of a child entering the hobby.
> 
> Blue Box kits are almost gone now(they are gone from most hobby shops). It's hard to find stuff you can still assemble.


One word: Accurail.


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## HOTrainNut (Feb 17, 2016)

Ebay isnt terrible. I got a brand new in box RSD15 PennCentral DCC/Sound for $100 cant beat that price. But even a generic bachmann DCC ready locomotive is going for $77


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I agree there are still deals out there and no, ebay is not the place to find them very often.
I am like Chet, I really don't Need to buy more. I have been buying for many years and
have hundreds of rolling stock. But I still need a "fix" once in awhile. I probably buy
from ebay 10 to 15 times a year. Train shows are by far the best place for deals. Yes
ebay prices are high but I find local hobby shops even higher. I have set limits on myself.
I like to stay 10 bucks or less for rolling stock. I have paid and will pay $15.00 for
walthers gold line auto carriers. Yes they are used but I only buy gently used stuff.
I like big steam and I like BLI locos. Yes they have list price of $500.00 to $600.
But I pay 300 to 325 for them (not from ebay)In my mind they are worth that.
Part of the problem is buyers paying these crazy prices. Quit it people!


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

re: DCC, a super basic motor control decoder with just one or two aux functions (for headlights) can be had for ~$20. High end sound decoders with fancy lighting functions are obviously much more, plus the cost of a decent speaker, so that accounts for DCC+Sound models being that much more than the non-DCC option (which will still be "DCC Ready" so it's easy to put your preferred DCC decoder in, with many drop-in options available).

Another big driver of the cost is the detail work on many new models. These are exquisite and works of art, and definitely NOT meant to be beginner/starter models. And of course production and assembly costs have risen over the years, plus regular inflation, so everything is a bit more expensive.

There are still starter brands available. Model Power and Bachmann have lower cost, lower detail offerings. Accurail doesn't do locomotives, but has a very reasonable line of freight cars. Atlas's *TrainMan* line is also a bit more budget minded than their high-end *Master* series.

The Tangents, BLMAs, ExactRails, Athearn Genesis, Rapido Trains, Bowser Trains Executive Series, etc. are definitely meant for the established hobbyist that loves detail and accuracy, not the beginner.


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Maybe this will make the main stream stuff look cheaper.

http://www.micro-metakit.com/index.php/en/

They are amazing works of the modelers art.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

You can still buy kits from Bowser and others that help to keep the costs down. However, let me make an observation, if you'll permit a bit of a rant:

A city in Europe has just banned the Keurig style coffee cups. That city alone, in 2014, placed enough of these high-temp, non-recyclable plastic cups in their land fill that, if placed tightly side by side, all standing up on their bottoms, they'd make a corkscrew line, unbroken, around the surface of the earth four (4) times!!!! Why are they so popular? Because they are convenient...we want our iPhone 8 Monday if we order it Friday, and we unload our Version 7, now six months old (ewwww!), on Craig's List.

Why is the cereal market dying...rapidly? The new generation doesn't want to wash their GD bowls!!!! This is true, a news item about a poll conducted recently.

Our society lives in the now. Nobody saves. We spend, often just to be seen sporting the latest and greatest. We want what we want six minutes ago...thanks very much. 

Well, in case it's news to the generally older guys reading here, and very odd woman (cough), instant anything is very expensive. Instantly on electronics, which pretty much is everything these days, means you are paying a couple of dollars a day in energy costs just for that convenience. If you can't be bothered to unpack and assemble some cheaper rolling stock for your train set, you must pay someone else to do it.

It's that simple.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I must be out of touch with the world, or I could be cheap. 
Coffee, we brew ours from beans. No Keurig for us. We cook from scratch buying very little processed foods. Fresh veggies and buy our meat from a rancher friend. Great Angus beef. 

I do save money and put it in the bank. (Unfortunate that interest rates are non existent) Last summer while doing major renovations, we ended up replacing most of out light bulbs with LED bulbs. We also have a tankless water heater. 

I am by no means a "greenie", but do what I can to save a few bucks.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I too, am hooked on LED bulbs for the house. I had major renovations also in 2013.
We had 2 new separate additions added to the house (this was the wife's idea). We had lived here over 40 years and for over 40 years my wife hated our house. Here is why.
I had the house before I met her. So she did not get to pick the house. Well she got
cancer and I just could not tell her no any longer on doing renovations. She got her
way and got to enjoy her house that now she loved. She passed away last july. So 
for 2 years she enjoyed "her" house. Any who, we had can lights put in the new
additions and got LED bulbs for them. Oh my gosh I loved the LEDs. Whiter, brighter.
All the other bulbs had a yellowish glow and I have just about replaced non LEDs 
through out the house.
Coffee, love it and have at least a pot EVERY morning. Never have done a Keurig.
I buy a 3lb can of folgers for $9 something at Sam's. I don't know it seems like that 
lasts at least 6 months. Pretty cheap.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I forgot to mention how smart my wife was. To get me to agree to the renovations
her and her architect came up with a nice oversized 2 car garage for me. How could any man
turn that down. Our house was nice before the renovations. She was just being a
spoiled brat, she was beautiful enough to pull it off. She was normally not an expensive
wife like some are. Our house only had a 1 car attached garage so the new garage
sits 6 feet from house. So now 3 car garages. We had all new siding all around the
house so that the whole house looks original. All new flooring inside, I would defy anybody to point out new additions inside and out. It killed me to spend over $150,000
on what was a decent house. It made her happy so it was worth it.


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## leadsled (Dec 25, 2014)

Since I am relatively new to this hobby compared to most, I have to say I do see some things that make me wonder about the cost of models. 

Especially DCC, it has been around for quite some time. Usually a company needs to recoup its research and development costs. Still the prices seem to be highly inflated, the technology is very common and the components available. All thats left is the software, I would bet that a decoder costs pennies to make.

Why is a loco with sound and dcc the same cost as a dc loco plus a separate decoder and speaker? 

If this hobby is to survive, the companies making products need to find ways to sell their wares at a slightly lower prices.


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## NAJ (Feb 19, 2016)

Not sure exactly what you guys are looking for but I did find bargains on eBay.
I am not looking for anything really expensive maybe that is why. 
I was actually looking for AHM and Tyco stuff I had in the 70's.
Got a lot of 15 assorted box cars and a lot of 11 assorted tankers for less than $25.00 each shipped.
Some cars were scratched but some looked mint and all were complete with no missing couplers or broken trucks.

Now my local hobby shop on the other hand...


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## NWHOOSIER (Jan 6, 2016)

Late last year i was able to get an Athearn blue box SD40-2 Santa Fe for 22.50 shipped off ebay. Hand rails and everything. But deals like that are rare indeed. You really have to be watching all the time and some bargains can be had.
Best bargains are at shows and i am going to one tomorrow. Early this month i went to one and got 1 Athearn F7 powered loco, 1 Tech II 2400 power pack and 6 rolling stock cars all for 83.00 bucks. Most cars had kadees and one had metal wheels. 3 came with boxes and 2 were not assembled yet. All cars were Athearn blue box or Roundhouse.
After getting such bargains ebay became rather boring. But you never know.
I was lucky to get into the hobby back in the late 80's when Hobbyland was in town and Athearn locos were 18.00-27.00 and rolling stock 4.00-12.00. 
If you have to have the best any hobby can get expensive. I consider all my stuff middle of the road. Some quality is there without breaking the bank.


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## HOTrainNut (Feb 17, 2016)

the fact remains, these companies are losing customers. So in order to maintain their bottom line they need to jack up prices to stay in business. Its a catch 22. If they could lower the cost of these locomotives to bring more people into the hobby they would then lose money. But on the other hand if they keep costs high they drive away customers and future hobbyists. Not to mention children arent really interesteed in trains anymore. Yes young kids, but once they hit 10-15 its all about cell phones and tablets and Facebook. The WSJ article on model railroading a few days ago makes you think. Bachmann now offers an app for your smart phone which allow the user to control the train from their phone which has brought the average ownership age to 28-34 which is great. But there is still a "clique" when it comes to model railroading and you see it at train shows and swap meets. You have your hobby snobs which no matter what you do, its NEVER prototypical enough or a train would never go that fast or youre just a young whippersnapper you dont know about the hard knock railroad life. Its typical BS like that which really drives people away as well. 

When I first got back into model railroading about a year ago. I met a few guys that gave me crap because Ive never owned a Broadway Limited locomotive or ive never owned a brass loco or even i didnt have the proper rolling stock for my layout. This elitist crap also deters people from wanting to join the ranks of model railroading.


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## dsertdog56 (Oct 26, 2014)

HOTrainNut said:


> You have your hobby snobs which no matter what you do, its NEVER prototypical enough or a train would never go that fast or youre just a young whippersnapper you dont know about the hard knock railroad life. Its typical BS like that which really drives people away as well.
> 
> When I first got back into model railroading about a year ago. I met a few guys that gave me crap because Ive never owned a Broadway Limited locomotive or ive never owned a brass loco or even i didnt have the proper rolling stock for my layout. This elitist crap also deters people from wanting to join the ranks of model railroading.


This has never changed...it drove my dad out of a local club back in the late 1950's...snobs with their Japanese brass engines. Of course they couldn't lay track or build scenery, something my dad was very good at. OOPS!

Same in the 80's...train shop guy asks me why I'm spending the bucks on a Front Line conversion chassis for a tyco GP-20. I'm like, why do you care, it's my money! It's one of my best locomotives.

We have snobs in every hobby...cars, dogs, guns, you name it. The three things that ruin a hobby (but not always kill it) are costs, snobbery, and availability.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

HOTrainNut said:


> the fact remains, these companies are losing customers. So in order to maintain their bottom line they need to jack up prices to stay in business. Its a catch 22. If they could lower the cost of these locomotives to bring more people into the hobby they would then lose money. But on the other hand if they keep costs high they drive away customers and future hobbyists. Not to mention children arent really interesteed in trains anymore. Yes young kids, but once they hit 10-15 its all about cell phones and tablets and Facebook. The WSJ article on model railroading a few days ago makes you think. Bachmann now offers an app for your smart phone which allow the user to control the train from their phone which has brought the average ownership age to 28-34 which is great. But there is still a "clique" when it comes to model railroading and you see it at train shows and swap meets. You have your hobby snobs which no matter what you do, its NEVER prototypical enough or a train would never go that fast or youre just a young whippersnapper you dont know about the hard knock railroad life. Its typical BS like that which really drives people away as well.
> 
> When I first got back into model railroading about a year ago. I met a few guys that gave me crap because Ive never owned a Broadway Limited locomotive or ive never owned a brass loco or even i didnt have the proper rolling stock for my layout. This elitist crap also deters people from wanting to join the ranks of model railroading.


Good points, lot of those reasons are exactly how I ended up at the club I am at versus joining something closer. You will always get "rivet counter guy", "I know more than u guy" and "top your story guy". That is a given in life As long as it stays "guy" and not "guys" your good to go My club has a pretty god run what ya brung attitude on the open nights. Everyone kind of has their niche and runs with it so you always have variety.



dsertdog56 said:


> This has never changed...it drove my dad out of a local club back in the late 1950's...snobs with their Japanese brass engines. Of course they couldn't lay track or build scenery, something my dad was very good at. OOPS!
> 
> Same in the 80's...train shop guy asks me why I'm spending the bucks on a Front Line conversion chassis for a tyco GP-20. I'm like, why do you care, it's my money! It's one of my best locomotives.
> 
> We have snobs in every hobby...cars, dogs, guns, you name it. The three things that ruin a hobby (but not always kill it) are costs, snobbery, and availability.


Closed minded clubs either shrivel and die or have low low members counts......which is sad.

I'll admit I do not understand the Tyco, old Bachman or old LifeLike love I see around here, but if your happy with it, its your hobby. I just never want to experience those issues again in any form(although at the end of the day, dcc, sound, technology, old engine, new engines, it all goes bonkers now and then)



We are coming down to the same issues as the other thread:

Costs are getting stupid(you buy dcc/sound for the same price as factory upgrade to it)

Snobs wreck clubs(maybe we all need to tell this to the snobs and not just walk away!)

Getting young folks involved


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## NAJ (Feb 19, 2016)

3.8TransAM said:


> I'll admit I do not understand the Tyco, old Bachman or old LifeLike love I see around here, but if your happy with it, its your hobby. I just never want to experience those issues again in any form(although at the end of the day, dcc, sound, technology, old engine, new engines, it all goes bonkers now and then)
> 
> Getting young folks involved


I am not in a club and do not plan on being in a club, I am back into trains only because 3 of my Grandson's who are all 6 are all into trains now.

As far as AHM, Tyco, Lifelike...
For me it is nostalgia, that is what I had in the 70's when I first got interested so that is what I want again and that is what is set up at my Son's house for Christmas time and what one of my Grandson's has because that is what I...Oops I mean Santa bought him.
The other 2 have Bachmann starter sets they got for Christmas of 2014 with some additions we picked up at local train shows and a used train shop nearby, most of which are Tyco, AHM, Lifelike...


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

NAJ said:


> I am not in a club and do not plan on being in a club, I am back into trains only because 3 of my Grandson's who are all 6 are all into trains now.
> 
> As far as AHM, Tyco, Lifelike...
> For me it is nostalgia, that is what I had in the 70's when I first got interested so that is what I want again and that is what is set up at my Son's house for Christmas time and what one of my Grandson's has because that is what I...Oops I mean Santa bought him.
> The other 2 have Bachmann starter sets they got for Christmas of 2014 with some additions we picked up at local train shows and a used train shop nearby, most of which are Tyco, AHM, Lifelike...


Nothing wrong with that and I didn't mean it in a bad way at all.

I was never really around a club let alone active in one until recently(6 yr old would not get off my back about model trains) due to room at the house. All we have here is an indestructible folding table for a work bench with about 5 pieces of straight track for testing(extra garbage controller hardly moves anything with dcc/sound). Sadly, we just don't have room, so I investigated the local places with an eye to finding one child friendly.

I would investigate local clubs solo and see how they are about kids. I don't recommend taking 3 6 yr olds at a time without help My older boy has his own sound equipped P2K and he takes it on and off the rails by himself, I just take it out of the box for him.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

As to newly getting into the hobby new - I sort of did that.

I had Tyco cars and locomotives along with some Athearns and Mantuas from my youth.

I decided to upgrade to cars with metal wheels. I sold off the Tyco stuff on ebay and forums, bought some Athearn BB locomotives for about $30 to $35 apiece off ebay and went to MB Klein (modeltrainstuff.com) and bought Bachmann Silver series and Atlas Trainman series cars for $10 to $15 dollars.

I still ran DC with Railpower transformers, used my brass track, and didn't break the bank.

Then I decided to upgrade to DCC. Sold the Athearn BB locomotives for about what I paid, bought some Bachmann DCC locomotives (non sound) for $40 to $60 and then bought an NCE Power Cab for $150 (new - MB Klein). Still haven't broken the bank.

Over time I got lucky and saw a make offer deal on ebay on a very large quantity of new Atlas nickel silver sectional track and switches and got it all for $160, about 1/3 of the full cost. More than what I needed for my 4 x 8 world. I sold off some of the excess.

But it isn't DCC per se that is driving up costs - it is the amount of detail that modelers want. The price difference between comparable locomotives can be greatly affected by the amount of detail.

But, yes, sound can get expensive. If you don't need sound, you can get starter DCC sets for under $200, DC starter sets for under $130. Add a track expander pack and you can be off and running. You can get sound locomotives now from Bachmann and Walters for around $120.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

It also doesn't help that the guys at the hobby shop look at you like you're Satan raping their mother if you GOD FORBID ask them a beginner question.

I will definitely NOT be going back to caboose hobbies EVER again.

The only NICE employees are the cashiers who don't know about trains.


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## PhillipL (May 5, 2012)

My hobby budget has been shrinking as I save for retirement. I decided to take a different approach to my hobby, I am steering away from the expensive bands and have discovered there are some reasonable prices on Walthers Mainline and Athearn RTR/Roundhouse at places such as Modeltrainstuff.com. They might not be super detailed but they are definitely not super fragile either. I even purchased a pair of Walthers Trainline GP9Ms and found them to run smoother than some of higher priced locos. I know the GP9Ms are not really accurate but they are great fun and if one breaks, heck I am not out of whole lot of money.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

When I had the hobby store, there was a guy from out of town who was transferred into the area in spite of living in the other end of the state, he would hang out in my shop several evenings a week and I was glad for the company. There was also a local club that had a work session one evening a week and my friend started going. The guys at the work session would always invite him back the next week. One evening one of the club officers came to the work session to talk to my friend, basically other members (who were not there) were complaining that a non-member was working on the layout that was for members only. The ultimatum was presented, either join the club or stop attending the work sessions. My friend was from out of town and was trying to get reassigned back into his home territory, so it didn't make sense to join just to quit again, and this is what he told them. In the end he stopped attending the work sessions because members who were not attending the sessions either, complained. I eventually closed the shop and have not had any dealings with the club since then. Here was a case of "membership snobs" if you weren't a member you weren't allowed into the layout except as a spectator, and the members were not taking advantage of the opportunity to work on the layout and they were not going to let anyone else work on it either.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

santafealltheway said:


> It also doesn't help that the guys at the hobby shop look at you like you're Satan raping their mother if you GOD FORBID ask them a beginner question.
> 
> I will definitely NOT be going back to caboose hobbies EVER again.
> 
> The only NICE employees are the cashiers who don't know about trains.


Sad to hear that about there, always considered that place a dream. Missed my chance to go there when I was 2 hours away in Laramie for school. Yeah that attitude needs to end and the faster it does the better. We all have off days, but some folks turn you off and you never come back.



PhillipL said:


> My hobby budget has been shrinking as I save for retirement. I decided to take a different approach to my hobby, I am steering away from the expensive bands and have discovered there are some reasonable prices on Walthers Mainline and Athearn RTR/Roundhouse at places such as Modeltrainstuff.com. They might not be super detailed but they are definitely not super fragile either. I even purchased a pair of Walthers Trainline GP9Ms and found them to run smoother than some of higher priced locos. I know the GP9Ms are not really accurate but they are great fun and if one breaks, heck I am not out of whole lot of money.


Deals is where its at. Everything my son and I have worked on or purchased car or engine wise has been used of some capacity. Display models, new in box never opened, bought opened and stored, etc, there are deals to be had everywhere. Most of the older guys have a real resistance to ebay, but they back the merchandise/return if you get junk or shipping destroys it. Double back yourself up and use a credit card thru paypal. All of my parts, pieces,paints, supplies come from the local hobby shop(good place that the son still runs and his dad started it in 56 I believe)



thedoc said:


> When I had the hobby store, there was a guy from out of town who was transferred into the area in spite of living in the other end of the state, he would hang out in my shop several evenings a week and I was glad for the company. There was also a local club that had a work session one evening a week and my friend started going. The guys at the work session would always invite him back the next week. One evening one of the club officers came to the work session to talk to my friend, basically other members (who were not there) were complaining that a non-member was working on the layout that was for members only. The ultimatum was presented, either join the club or stop attending the work sessions. My friend was from out of town and was trying to get reassigned back into his home territory, so it didn't make sense to join just to quit again, and this is what he told them. In the end he stopped attending the work sessions because members who were not attending the sessions either, complained. I eventually closed the shop and have not had any dealings with the club since then. Here was a case of "membership snobs" if you weren't a member you weren't allowed into the layout except as a spectator, and the members were not taking advantage of the opportunity to work on the layout and they were not going to let anyone else work on it either.


That is just stupid. It's also about the same reason I take my son(and myself) to a club that is a good deal farther from home than the local one. Environment and people are a ton better. If you get someone willing to help, I don't see how hard it would be to say, "Tell you what, bring a couple pizzas. or donuts/coffee whatever and your welcome to come by while your here" or "bust the membership down monthly". Stupid pissing matches are literally just that at the end of the day. An idiot turns down free help, especially competent help.

With all the other conversation stuff being brought up, is it time to start changing the way clubs are run? It is a turn off when one of your selling points is bylaws I haven't been to one where that word doesn't come up at a minimum. I understand the reason, but the pure formality and bylaw nazism is a little(okay a lot) old school nowadays.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

3.8TransAM said:


> *That is just stupid.* It's also about the same reason I take my son(and myself) to a club that is a good deal farther from home than the local one. Environment and people are a ton better.
> 
> With all the other conversation stuff being brought up, is it time to start changing the way clubs are run? It is a turn off when one of your selling points is bylaws I haven't been to one where that word doesn't come up at a minimum. I understand the reason, but the pure formality and bylaw nazism is a little(okay a lot) old school nowadays.


This is the same club where the "hand laid track mafia" decided that all the track on the club layout should be hand laid. The layout at that point was laid with flex track and members could run almost the whole railroad. So instead of pulling up just as much flex track as they could replace in one work session, the group pulled up all the track and started relaying the track, and for the time being they couldn't run trains. 

In the other club I happened to be the president when the brother of one of the members was arrested on trumped up charges, and the club wanted to write the by-laws to keep him out. Trying to get the language just right without being too specific was a real problem. I was convinced that he wasn't guilty, but most of the membership had decided that they didn't want him in the club.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

thedoc said:


> This is the same club where the "hand laid track mafia" decided that all the track on the club layout should be hand laid. The layout at that point was laid with flex track and members could run almost the whole railroad. So instead of pulling up just as much flex track as they could replace in one work session, the group pulled up all the track and started relaying the track, and for the time being they couldn't run trains.
> 
> In the other club I happened to be the president when the brother of one of the members was arrested on trumped up charges, and the club wanted to write the by-laws to keep him out. Trying to get the language just right without being too specific was a real problem. I was convinced that he wasn't guilty, but most of the membership had decided that they didn't want him in the club.


Lot of stupid in that post huh?

Hand layed track is awesome(something I want to to learn) but giving up any and all train running while doing so sounds like a quick way for folks to lose interest in a hurry.

The other stuff is dumb as well, like it or not, it still is innocent to proven guilty. We've all been there or known someone who was, that is what the courts are for.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

3.8TransAM said:


> Lot of stupid in that post huh?
> The other stuff is dumb as well, like it or not, it still is innocent to proven guilty. We've all been there or known someone who was, that is what the courts are for.


On the down side for my friend, he took the guilty plea when his lawyer asked him, was he willing to try to convince a jury of people from this area that his pencil drawings (really good ones that included nudes) were art and not pornography. It only took him a few seconds to decide to take the plea and do some time.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

3.8TransAM said:


> Lot of stupid in that post huh?
> Hand layed track is awesome(something I want to to learn) but giving up any and all train running while doing so sounds like a quick way for folks to lose interest in a hurry.


Let me tell you a cautionary tale of how not to lay ties for hand laid track. I happened to be in the club building when one of the members was laying ties for the track, he was laying ties around a curve. He would put a piece of masking upside down in a fixture, place the ties and then put glue on the bottom of the ties, so far so good. Then he took the whole 6" or 8" section and place it on the roadbed, except that he placed the section of ties straight, but at an angle to the straight section of ties he had placed on the curve just before. He didn't bother to arrange the ties to suit the curve, but left them straight and went on to the next section. The ties really looked odd with a series of straight sections with a kink where they changed direction. I just shook my head and walked away, I was already on the **** list with that club, but I was an Honorary Member because I owned a hobby shop that sold trains.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

mopac said:


> We have recent threads asking if model railroading is dying. These kind of prices are not helping. How in the world could a high school kid with no job ever get into this hobby.



They cant lol, didnt have the money for anything NON-tyco OR brand new til i was 26.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I'm a die-hard SP fan, and I'd love to have an Athern Genesis SP caboose. But I don't think I'm ready to shell out $80 for it.

I like ExactRail detail and the fact that they come with Kadee couplers. But $35 for a hopper without sprung trucks is nonsense.

On the other hand, a Bachman F7-A w/Sound is under $130. I'm at a loss to figure it all out.

L.S.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I was thinking about the price of locomotives when I was a kid and the cost they are now verses inflation. And I found the box for an Athearn Blu Box sw1500 that I bought as a kid in 1985. The price was $25.00. Using an internet inflation calculator the estimate is that this would now cost $54.09. I also have a Life Like that I purchased around the same time for $20. Looking at tower hobbies there are several of the Bachmann diesels GPs available for $62 dollars. The models are DCC ready too. This is not that much more when adjusted for inflation than the Blue Box from 1985. The used market has also exploded largely due to EBay. You can get a good running Blue Box for ~$25, that is $11.55 in 1985 money.

After giving this some thought I think it is a case of everyone is focusing on the best looking and performing. If I had to start over on a tight budget what would be wrong with a basic Bachmann DCC ready locomotive? My LHS sells Bowser rolling stock kits $10. They have RTR cars for $20. All have knuckle couplers. If you go used a BB is cheep and reliable and rolling stock is dime a dozen.


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