# Lionel Hot Air Balloons



## Geochurchi (Aug 7, 2020)

Gents, anyone know how this is supposed to function? if we have a slide switch installed to operate this accessory , if the switch is in the ON position the balloon would rise and complete a cycle, if the switch is left on shouldn’t the balloons continue to cycle until the switch is turned OFF, if the switch is turned OFF in mid cylcle the balloon would stop, switch it on again and the balloon would resume its previous direction, correct?
We have a lot of kids visiting our display, currently there are push buttons along the display to control accessories, my plan is to install a delay on break time delay relay that would be activated by a push button, delay would be set still the balloons would make a complete cycle, make sense?
Thanks


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Geochurchi said:


> Gents, anyone know how this is supposed to function? if we have a slide switch installed to operate this accessory , if the switch is in the ON position the balloon would rise and complete a cycle, if the switch is left on shouldn’t the balloons continue to cycle until the switch is turned OFF, if the switch is turned OFF in mid cylcle the balloon would stop, switch it on again and the balloon would resume its previous direction, correct?
> We have a lot of kids visiting our display, currently there are push buttons along the display to control accessories, my plan is to install a delay on break time delay relay that would be activated by a push button, delay would be set still the balloons would make a complete cycle, make sense?
> Thanks


Is this it? I never had one or saw one in person. Lionel # SKU: 6-24177 
Manual?


https://www.lionelsupport.com/media/servicedocuments/72-4177-250.pdf


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

FWIW, my friend has a used one and I got some very good common sense advice from him.
The way it works is simple, one balloon is weighted- the far end on on the line, and via the pulleys the winch inside the base lifts the weighted balloon up. Sensing of end limits is done by line tension. So when the line goes slack- the balloon is assumed down at the far end. When the ballon is max up and hits the pulley- before ripping your fully out of the ceiling or trying to yank the balloon through the pulley the tension on the line trips the high limit switch.
*The advice part* comes in that stop with the balloon in the DOWN position (far end weighted balloon) so as to not have something weighted hanging above your layout parked- and thus able to fall should something go wrong. It's important that the pulleys (you could use more than one to route the line such for spaced placement of the balloon paths are extremely free spinning with the light load. Otherwise you'll keep tripping the slack and tight limit switches.

It's a neat accessory and visually very fun, however, I can see where it could be finicky if you don't pay attention to the details of operation. In other words, the lines have to move extremely freely through the pulleys and anything that makes the tension too high would result in cycle problems.

So, just breaking power via a timer, I don't think that will in and of itself cause an issue but does leave the system in a potential state where the weighted balloon is high above the table.

You would have to bypass the logic and create a custom logic for an "always ends down" scenario from a button.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Again, in theory, a timer on the power would cycle the balloons from one random state, to another random state.
As made, there is no easy way to force a specific up and down cycle with the existing electronics. Since we assume a fixed source voltage and there is a distance, the motor should take a time period to move from on limit to the other.
The issue of a timer alone is drift, you will have variation and so given a number of cycles, eventually the balloons would be stopping some random point midway between.

That's not a terrible thing, it might be OK. Visually both balloons somewhere mid air catches attention and the button causes action for a time period and that's all fine.

Suggest you have a manual process button that bypasses your timer and a staff person parks the balloon manually at the end of the day down. A button in parallel to the relay in a staff only location would accomplish this.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Found a video. 
This guy puts it off the side of the table, so I guess if anything goes wrong it won't land on the table?
Nice O scale circus he has created, just recently someone asked about O scale circus rides.
Check it out,


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Again, key notes are:
Make sure your pulleys are free.
Don't add weight to compensate for drag through the pulleys. The limit switch for tension is not adjustable and is a sane safe limit, however, adding weight to the far end balloon to compensate for pulley drag will likely begin to trip the high limit pulling the balloon up and thus short cycle the system.


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