# Two Lionel #50 Gang cars ready for years of running!



## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

Over the past five months, I bought two separate postwar 50 gang cars on eBay for cheap.

One was advertised as "runs in one direction", and the other was sold as "tested, but doesn't want to run. Sold for parts only."

Since I am finally feeling a little caught up with home and work, or at least seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, I decided to open one of the cars up to see what I might be dealing with as far as repairs go. I had never worked on or removed the shell on a 50 before today.

The first gang car ran well in both directions, but the reversing slide assembly was so stiff in it's movement that when the car hit my hand to throw the car into the opposite direction, the entire car would hit so hard that it would jump off the track completely. When I opened this car up, I found that there was old grease caked under the reversing slide assembly. There was also hardened grease on the axle drive gear and the armature worm drive. The grease was so bad that it took well over 20 minutes (this was my first #50 repair) to clean it. The grease on the bearing had dried so hard that it felt like welding slag, and not grease. I lubed it up with some fresh white lithium grease.

Feeling brave and confident, I tackled the second car. This #50 would run like mad in one direction, but sat dead as a door nail when the reversing slide assembly was activated. I found that grease and dirt had built up over one of the electrical contacts on the fiber board. I cleaned that, as well as the contacting spring. I did not grease the gears because the existing grease looked fresh and good. 

Both cars run like scalded cats, as my dad would say. Both now snap into the opposite direction when the RSA is moved.

I know many of you could have rebuilt these units with your eyes closed, but it feels good to have learned how these fun little cars work, and even more fun to see them spin around the track at lightning speed.

I will never be afraid of another "not tested, not running" #50 gang car again. 

Thanks for letting me share!


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Nothin'smells as sweet as success. Thanks for sharin'.:appl:


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

I love to hear when old trains get a new life... :thumbsup:

Greg


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You should remove the white lithium grease and replace it with motor oil Motor oil never dries out, and white lithium grease will dry out in a few years.


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

servoguy said:


> You should remove the white lithium grease and replace it with motor oil Motor oil never dries out, and white lithium grease will dry out in a few years.


Well, I wondered about that.

I thought about using axle grease, but was afraid that axle grease would be too thick. 

Wouldn't motor oil be too thin, and run off the gears, only to collect and pool at the bottom of the frame assembly?


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## namvet67 (Dec 7, 2013)

Go down to your local auto parts store and buy a tube of "Lucas Red 'n Tacky" # 2. Its a red lithium grease with an anti-seaze agent. Best thing for gears. Local train shops in this area use it on all their repairs. It will never gum up or harden. Put some "motor oil" on your fingers and rub real hard, it wipes off ez with a rag. Put some red n tacky on your fingers & just try to get it off. See which one you would prefer on your gears. Doesnt make a mess like motor oil. Been using it for years with great results. Use it sparingly. It made my F-3 2343AA's run better N quieter. JMHO Willy


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

What did you lube the bearings with?


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

clovis said:


> Over the past five months, I bought two separate postwar 50 gang cars on eBay for cheap.
> 
> One was advertised as "runs in one direction", and the other was sold as "tested, but doesn't want to run. Sold for parts only."
> 
> ...


I can relate, the 50 was my first operating car refurb when I started restoring my newly acquired vintage set this past fall. Gave me a lot of confidence (along with the help of this forum) to tackle the rest of them. Enjoy!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Good job. I love the little gang cars. Have fun bumping them into things!


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

Horror stories about old Lionel grease abound. We all have our special experiences with it, all bad. I had a situation where it combined with debris to form a perfect ratchet over a gear, making it run in one direction but not the other. You have to wonder how could Lionel pick such a crappy product for this application.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

They didn't know any better! For the time it was probably state of the art.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The key parameter for lubricants is the vapor pressure. Motor oil has a vapor of 10^-2 mm Hg at 100 deg C. The vapor pressure at room temperature is much lower than 10^-2 mm of Hg, probably less than 10^-5 mm of Hg. White lithium grease has a vapor pressure much higher than motor oil, thus it will dry out much faster. 

Lucas Red and Tacky has an unknown vapor pressure as it is not in the Internet.

Valvolene chassis grease must have a low vapor pressure as I have an open container in the garage which has been in my tool box for about 20 years, and it has not dried out. I may try it on some gears soon. Valvolene only states that its evaporation rate is very slow.

3 in 1 oil, Lionel Lube, white lithium grease, light machine oil, WD-40, should be avoided as they dry out very quickly.


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

carinofranco said:


> Horror stories about old Lionel grease abound. We all have our special experiences with it, all bad. You have to wonder how could Lionel pick such a crappy product for this application.


You are probably right, but then again, the newest postwar #50 gang car is celebrating its 50th birthday this year. The earliest gang cars will turn 60 this year, based on the fact that they were first introduced in 1954.

I've not had any other problems with dried Lionel grease...yet. The vast majority of estate fresh Lionel that we've found ran within a few minutes of setting it on the track. It was common to hear the previous owner say "That was last run in the fall of 1959."

I don't think a tune up once every 50 years or even 20 years is all that bad.


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

I agree, that is a good observation. There are exceptions however. A friend gave me a Santa Fe F3 to get running that had not been run in about 15 years. some one had mistaken the brush cups for grease fittings and had pumped the motor full of Lionel grease which had hardened to Rockwell C 30 or so. It took quite a while to get everything unglued. Once clean though, it ran like, well, a train.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## namvet67 (Dec 7, 2013)

While out in the shop I dug up an MSDS on red n tacky. It doesnt give any specs on "Vapor Pressure", but does say that the "Evaporation rate" is very low also. Bruce had me curious about the specs. It all boils down to whatever "works" for you. We have never had a part fail because it didnt do its job. Alotta peeps on the OGR & CS Trains forums use it. Jim Barrett recommended it on OGR forum. IMHO its the best stuff we've ever used. Dawn dishwashing liquid wont cut it. Kerosene in parts cleaner has to be used. 
Willy


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

carinofranco said:


> A friend gave me a Santa Fe F3 to get running that had not been run in about 15 years. some one had mistaken the brush cups for grease fittings and had pumped the motor full of Lionel grease which had hardened to Rockwell C 30 or so. It took quite a while to get everything unglued. Once clean though, it ran like, well, a train.


My goodness...where does one even start on a project like that? 

Did it take long to get it all out?


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

As a side observation about my two #50 gang cars:

I chipped the rock hard grease out of one gang car, and used white lithium grease on the gears. On the other car, I left the existing grease, which appeared to be fresh axle grease. 

Of the two, the car with white lithium runs much faster than the other. I am guessing that the white lithium grease offers less resistance on the gears, resulting in faster operation. At the same time, I'm afraid that the gears in the 50 have 'flung' or thrown the white lithium off the gears, which could result in a real mess down the road.

Maybe I need to open the car back up, and check it, possibly replacing the grease with another product.


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

clovis said:


> My goodness...where does one even start on a project like that?
> 
> Did it take long to get it all out?


o yeah. As I recall, I disassembled everything as far as was possible, then had to soak the motor in mineral spirits overnight. I still had to scrape and pick out the muck with dental tools. Everything was actually in good shape once cleaned. maybe the grease preserved it all, something like an archeology dig.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The grease acts as a preservative in the following way: The loco won't run, so the owner puts it in the closet for 50 years. The next owner has a nasty clean up job to do, but the loco isn't worn out.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Clovis, that's why I stopped using the lithium grease! It might have been me not being diligent enough in making sure I cleaned it off of everything. Anyway it ended up all over my track.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

The worm drive units are the only place I ever use grease, because they require more dis-assembly to get to. I have some lithium grease that's been in my tool box for a very long time with a lid that won't seal. It's still the same consistency as it used to be. All I ever use when adding grease is a very thin film, don't fill the area. The key advantage of grease over oil in these cases is oil will eventually drip off, grease won't.

Carl


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

carinofranco said:


> Horror stories about old Lionel grease abound. We all have our special experiences with it, all bad. I had a situation where it combined with debris to form a perfect ratchet over a gear, making it run in one direction but not the other. You have to wonder how could Lionel pick such a crappy product for this application.


 I had one of those little tubes of grease from back in 1954 till about a year ago when the train stuff got moved and never used it. I wonder if it hardened in the tube? It's amazing how good and how long the old Lionel trains and the acessories lasted even without taking care of it like they should have been. 
I bought the little MTH watchman's shanty a few months ago. The original light in the building burned out in less than 10 min. then the door stuck and snapped the bottom off where it goes into it's driving gear. I fixed all that and then within a week the gears started slipping in the drive mechanism. 
The little man just stands outside now holding his lantern all the time but I did manage to drill out the bottom of the lantern and put a miniature red light in it but his walking days are over as well as my faith in new MTH stuff. 
Bottom line with me is with new MTH stuff is there is no need to grease it because it's not going to last long enough to need it anyway. It's a shame too because they have such nice stuff even the lower price trains and starter sets are very nice.


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