# Let's discuss trucks



## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Not Derrick, although he is quite a good guitarist!

N scale trucks, and replacing / tuning trucks on rolling stock.

I have used up all the MTL Bettendorf trucks I acquired as part of a large train lot I bought about a year ago... So I'm getting ready to order more MTL trucks.

Barber, Andrews, Roller Bearing, Friction Bearing, Buckeye, Short coupler, long coupler, medium coupler, etc. etc.

What the hell does all that stuff mean, and what is important to someone like me who isn't a rivet counter, and just wants his rolling stock to function well?

I assume that Andrews, Buckeye, friction vs roller... are all just different looking... that functionally, they are all pretty much the same thing to an N scale modeler? Just visually represent different types of trucks as time marched along?

I think the only thing that really matters to me is the coupler length. So when is short better than medium? What are the uses for long couplers? I imagine they go on longer flatbed type cars?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> Not Derrick, although he is quite a good guitarist!
> 
> N scale trucks, and replacing / tuning trucks on rolling stock.
> 
> ...


JeffHurl;

Your suspicions are correct. Aside from the three-axle heavyweight passenger car type, all Micro-Trains trucks are the same inside the truck frames. Even the three-axle ones only differ by having one extra axle. The Andrews, Buckeye, Archbar, roller bearing, etc. are all designs of prototype tucks. The only difference in the model trucks is cosmetic, (and very small cosmetic) detail on the outside of the "journals" (axle caps)

Some truck designs are older than others. The archbar design is a civil war / wild west era truck. The Bettendorf design was used from the early 20th century up to the 1960s. Form the 1960s up to today everything uses roller bearings. Other than those general time frames, I don't sweat the truck types much. If I were making a contest quality model of something that used Buckeye trucks, then I would want that type. Otherwise no.

The length of the arm that the couplers are mounted on varies with the type of car. Specifically, with how far the "bolster", that holds the trucks, is set back from the end of the car. Some Bachmann "Old timer" wood sheathed passenger cars from the wild west era, needed the long arm archbar trucks because the bolsters were set way back from the car end. Most freight cars only need the short arm trucks. Those three-axle passenger car trucks actually have adjustable mounts for the couplers because the bolster setback was different on various brands of model heavyweight passenger cars.

All Micro-Trains trucks are very free rolling. Even better if you swap the M-T plastic wheelsets for their new metal wheels/plastic axle wheelsets, or another brand of all metal wheelsets, like Intermountain, or Fox Valley models. Truck tuning shouldn't be needed. A lucky thing since the makers of the truck tuner tool only offer it in HO-scale.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Great info, TF! Thanks for taking the time to educate me.

They are all basically the same price, so I just ordered more bettendorf medium length.


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

I found a package of MTL trucks I was told to use when I swapped the Rapido’s off my Atlas and Life Like stock. This was 10ish or so years ago.
After that I brought MTL or Inter Mountain stock to solve this problem.
@traction fan post was interesting cleared up why certain trucks pertain to certain eras.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Looks like you put the old Rapido ones back in the packaging after the swap!


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Yes, I did keep them for prosperity and they may come in handy in the future.
As mentioned in another thread I have a few Rapido locos so have Rapido couplers on the front of the stock and MTL couplers on the rest of the trucks.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

If you’re not a rivet counter, I wouldn’t worry about cosmetics. By whatever year it was, friction bearing trucks (square blocky axle journals) were banned from interchanging with other railroads. Rule #1 applies abundantly here.

The main thing is operational reliability. Coupler height, length, and if possible, metal wheels always help in rolling resistance. This holds true I think in all scales.

Special note: I think MT sells just metal axle sets too, less trucks, if you desire to just swap axles on otherwise suitable trucks. I bought a couple bags of them years & years & years ago. Were not labeled though, hence I THINK they are MT brand.


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

The reliability thing took me to MTL products as a whole, I can run for hours now without separations or derailments.
Before it was a 10 car pile up....
That being said I'd lying if I didn't admit my vanity, they do look good too.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

OilValleyRy said:


> If you’re not a rivet counter, I wouldn’t worry about cosmetics. By whatever year it was, friction bearing trucks (square blocky axle journals) were banned from interchanging with other railroads. Rule #1 applies abundantly here.
> 
> The main thing is operational reliability. Coupler height, length, and if possible, metal wheels always help in rolling resistance. This holds true I think in all scales.
> 
> Special note: I think MT sells just metal axle sets too, less trucks, if you desire to just swap axles on otherwise suitable trucks. I bought a couple bags of them years & years & years ago. Were not labeled though, hence I THINK they are MT brand.


Intermountain also sells n scale metal wheel sets….they work well also…..


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I take it that the metal wheels are more reliable.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

pmcgurin said:


> I take it that the metal wheels are more reliable.


Yes. And tend not to collect detritus.

Derek Trucks is one of, if not the, best active players on the slide guitar.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

pmcgurin said:


> I take it that the metal wheels are more reliable.


Metal wheels have less rolling resistance and stay cleaner….


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

OK, so after playing around with all my rolling stock over the weekend, here are random facts, thoughts and a (jump to?) conclusion. 

All the rolling stock I have is either stuff I bought in the 90s, or is from a large lot of train stuff I bought last May. All my old stuff still had the original Rapido couplers in whatever trucks cam with the cars when they were new. All the rolling stock that came in the lot I purchased were old, but had newer MTL trucks installed. Also included in the lot was 6 or 7 packages of NOS MTL Bettendorf trucks. So.. I swapped out the old Rapido trucks on the rolling stock I already had. Also included in the lot was a small box full of plastic wheelsets that appeared to be new... at least they weren't obviously used.

All the rolling stock from the lot I bought was heavily weathered, but they all seemed to work OK... no derailments except for a couple of cars that I assumed where just crap, so I set those 2 aside.

Fast forward to last week, and I decided to start replacing trucks for these 2 cars that were set aside, so I bought a "sample" pack of MTL trucks that had 3 sets, one short, one medium and one long).

These new trucks completely remedied these 2 cars, so I then decided to buy a bulk pack of trucks. The bulk packs have enough to replace the trucks for 10 cars. Trucks are not cheap, at roughly $5 per car, so I wanted to be sure I was getting the most bang for the buck. I set out to build a quick test track to see which cars would roll better than others. I stack-ranked the cars, and replaced the trucks on the 10 worst performing cars. All of them became some of the best performers instantly upon getting new trucks.

I noticed as I was pulling trucks off the worst performers, that some trucks had plastic wheels and others had metal. I was finding that every single MTL truck that previous owner installed had metal wheels, and none of these trucks would roll very well at all.

I believe (here's my jump to a conclusion) the previous owner re-used the metal wheels from the original trucks and installed them into the new MTL trucks... and they must be too long.

So I think I will buy a small batch of either MTL of FVM metal wheel sets, but before I do that' I'm going to buy a decent set of calipers to test my theory (jump to) conclusion.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Since you're doing it, I recommend one of these...









HO & On30 Truck Tuner


DetailsTruck Tuner Makes 'em Really RollTunes HO & On30 scale railroad truck bearingsMeets NMRA’s recommended 60-degree contourCleans burrs and grimeA Micro-Mark ExclusiveIncreases train length that a locomotive can pull by 20%




www.micromark.com


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Stumpy said:


> Since you're doing it, I recommend one of these...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stumpy;

That tool could be very helpful, IF you happen to model in HO-scale. (the only scale the truck tuner is offered in) However, I believe JeffHurl models in N-scale.

Traction Fan


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Hmm... then perhaps one could be fashioned out of a V-point drill bit.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> OK, so after playing around with all my rolling stock over the weekend, here are random facts, thoughts and a (jump to?) conclusion.
> 
> All the rolling stock I have is either stuff I bought in the 90s, or is from a large lot of train stuff I bought last May. All my old stuff still had the original Rapido couplers in whatever trucks cam with the cars when they were new. All the rolling stock that came in the lot I purchased were old, but had newer MTL trucks installed. Also included in the lot was 6 or 7 packages of NOS MTL Bettendorf trucks. So.. I swapped out the old Rapido trucks on the rolling stock I already had. Also included in the lot was a small box full of plastic wheelsets that appeared to be new... at least they weren't obviously used.
> 
> ...



JeffHurl;

Your conclusion jump is not without possibility, but , like all such jumps, it may, or may not, actually be true.
Fortunately, it should be fairly easy to test. The early N-scale wheels found in most Rapido coupler equipped trucks are different from todays production wheels, whether factory-installed on new cars, or sold as replacement wheelsets. The most obvious difference is the width of the "tire" part of the wheel, (the part that actually rolls along the top of the rail.)
Compare the tire width on your suspect wheels that don't roll right, with the tire width of a Micro-Trains wheel. I suspect the sluggish rollers will have tires nearly twice the width of the MTL wheels.

Another possible difference is axle thickness. This one is a lot less certain, since different manufacturers of older trucks used different axles. If an axle is metal, and noticeably thicker than a MTL axle, that's a dead giveaway that your looking at a Rapido coupler era wheelset. Oddly, this is also true if the axle is a lot thinner.

Now for the difference that matters most, Axle length. The axles of the suspect trucks are probably a bit too long for the truck frames they are in. The length of axles varies all over the pace (though in pretty small increments) among different brands. This was true back then, and its true now even among today's aftermarket replacement wheelsets.
Why different axle lengths? Because all truck frames were/are not the same width.
Fortunately, the differences in axle length are a matter of a few thousandths of an inch. If the wheels don't roll well, try pulling the wheelsets out of the truck frame, and GENTLY spreading the frame out a bit wider at each "journal box" (where the axle points go into the truck frame.) Don't go all Rambo doing this, its easy to break the truck frame. When you re-install the wheelsets, you may find the truck rolls a lot better.

You can also lubricate trucks, but use a dry lubricant, NOT LIQUID OIL or Grease. Either oil, or grease, will quickly gather dust and clog the journals & axles slowing the truck back down.
Micro-Trains sells a dry lubricant called "Grease Em' (Its really fine-ground black graphite powder, despite the name) or you could use a Labele's dry lubricant powder, which is white, and comes in a small plastic bottle with a needle applicator, like LaBelle's plastic-compatible oil. I prefer the Labele, since the applicator controls where the stuff goes better, and the white color is easier to see against the black plastic truck frame.

As for replacement wheelsets, the package is labeled with the brands of trucks the wheels in that pack are designed for. I like Fox Valley Models, or Intermountain. Both these brands feature metal axles. Micro-Trains replacement metal wheels are actually mounted on plastic axles. Of course they are the right size for MTL trucks, and high quality (as are the other two brands mentioned)
I simply want to get every last bit of weight I can into the bottom of the car, where it does the most good. I have used all three brands, and all are very good.

Besides axle length, another difference to watch for is wheel size. The replacement wheels come in 36" & 33" sizes. These are based on prototype dimensions, of course, but the model wheels are slightly different diameters too. The 36" wheels were used on passenger cars, and some larger freight cars. Most steam era freight cars had 33" wheels I use 36" wheels on everything. So does the prototype on more and more of today's larger & heavier freight cars.

Regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I need to get some calipers.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> I need to get some calipers.


JeffHurl;

I do have a set of calipers, and a micrometer. I don't use the calipers all that often & hardly ever use the micrometer. While both tools are nice to have, coping with the difference in axle lengths doesn't really require either of them. I don't recall ever needing to measure metal wheelsets with either of these special tools.
If you do the things I suggested last time, you should be able to figure things out, & fix the problems, with no tools beyond your eyeballs, fingers, & brain. 

If the wheels fall out, the truck frame is too loose, squeeze it in a little. If the wheels don't roll freely, spread the truck frame a tiny bit, or try a different wheelset. The commercial metal replacement wheels are all made to very accurate standards, and should work fine.
If you are OK with using body-mounted MTL couplers, you can even keep those older trucks in use. just cut off the Rapido coupler box.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Generally I agree, but why do companies like FVM offer 4-5 different axle lengths? Seems like I should measure the ones that work well so i can order the closest length and don't need to bend anything.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> Generally I agree, but why do companies like FVM offer 4-5 different axle lengths? Seems like I should measure the ones that work well so i can order the closest length and don't need to bend anything.


That's fine. There's no harm in measuring. However, the packaging on replacement wheelsets generally has the brands of trucks the wheels are designed to fit. Since you are using MTL trucks, you could just buy a bulk pack of MTL metal wheels & know in advance that they will fit. 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

OK... I'm really trying to justify spending another $3 per car to upgrade from plastic to metal. Is it really worth it? To be honest, my rolling stock was working _OK _before I did anything. They are all performing better than they used to now that I have put MTL plastic wheelsets back on the trucks. I still believe the original owner thought he was doing the right thing be using old (like from the 70s) metal wheels on the new MTL trucks he bought. The metal wheels he used do NOT spin freely inside the trucks. But when I pout the plastic wheelsets back in, the performance was greatly improved.

SO... the question is... Given that my rolling stock now rolls with less resistance, and I have no derailment issues at all, is there a compelling reason to spend the extra $3 per car? I mean, why spend money if the only improvement is hearing the "clack." It doesn't appear that I need to add weight or lower the center of gravity because I have zero derailments. I have heard that metal wheels help keep the track cleaner... Is that true, and to what extent? Any other compelling reasons?

Thanks for putting up with a hard headed novice trying to keep an open mind but is also a tightwad


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

BTW, my micrometer calipers are being delivered today, so I hope to get actual measurements on the wheelsets I have within the next few days.;


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> OK... I'm really trying to justify spending another $3 per car to upgrade from plastic to metal. Is it really worth it? To be honest, my rolling stock was working _OK _before I did anything. They are all performing better than they used to now that I have put MTL plastic wheelsets back on the trucks. I still believe the original owner thought he was doing the right thing be using old (like from the 70s) metal wheels on the new MTL trucks he bought. The metal wheels he used do NOT spin freely inside the trucks. But when I pout the plastic wheelsets back in, the performance was greatly improved.
> 
> SO... the question is... Given that my rolling stock now rolls with less resistance, and I have no derailment issues at all, is there a compelling reason to spend the extra $3 per car? I mean, why spend money if the only improvement is hearing the "clack." It doesn't appear that I need to add weight or lower the center of gravity because I have zero derailments. I have heard that metal wheels help keep the track cleaner... Is that true, and to what extent? Any other compelling reasons?
> 
> Thanks for putting up with a hard headed novice trying to keep an open mind but is also a tightwad


Short answer….do what you will…..if the plastic wheels are rolling well, then why spend the money….Scrooge?

I know that metal wheels do stay cleaner in H.O., but, does it make a big difference in the lighter weight N scale? Probably not as much….maybe not even $3.00 a car difference….

That being said, I have metal wheels on all my N scale equipment….those lighted passenger cars won’t light up with plastic wheels….


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

This is an expensive hobby. It is valid to consider cost versus optimizing this or that component.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Short answer….do what you will…..if the plastic wheels are rolling well, then why spend the money….Scrooge?
> 
> I know that metal wheels do stay cleaner in H.O., but, does it make a big difference in the lighter weight N scale? Probably not as much….maybe not even $3.00 a car difference….
> 
> That being said, I have metal wheels on all my N scale equipment….those lighted passenger cars won’t light up with plastic wheels….


Was the Scrooge comment really necessary? Was that supposed to be humor, or a jab? I don't offend easily, just curious to know your intent.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

OK, I have yet to actually measure anything (because I'm still at work, lol).

Based on some quick research, there are 5 basic N scale axle lengths:

0.540 (MTL, Aethern, Fox Valley Models and BLMA)
0.553 (IRC, MDC, recent Atlas (plastic))
0.563 (Atlas metal, ConCor, Bachmann, Kato)
0.567 (Model Ppower)
0.573 (Arnold/Rapido) and a couple unique Atlas pieces)

If the above is correct, then the previous owner of the cars in question put the old Atlas metal wheels, which are 23 hundredths longer than MTL, back into the new MTL trucks. As a result, the trucks would roll, but not very well.

I'll be able to confirm all this later.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> OK... I'm really trying to justify spending another $3 per car to upgrade from plastic to metal. Is it really worth it? To be honest, my rolling stock was working _OK _before I did anything. They are all performing better than they used to now that I have put MTL plastic wheelsets back on the trucks. I still believe the original owner thought he was doing the right thing be using old (like from the 70s) metal wheels on the new MTL trucks he bought. The metal wheels he used do NOT spin freely inside the trucks. But when I pout the plastic wheelsets back in, the performance was greatly improved.
> 
> SO... the question is... Given that my rolling stock now rolls with less resistance, and I have no derailment issues at all, is there a compelling reason to spend the extra $3 per car? I mean, why spend money if the only improvement is hearing the "clack." It doesn't appear that I need to add weight or lower the center of gravity because I have zero derailments. I have heard that metal wheels help keep the track cleaner... Is that true, and to what extent? Any other compelling reasons?
> 
> Thanks for putting up with a hard headed novice trying to keep an open mind but is also a tightwad


Jeff;

I have absolutely no problem "putting up" with you. Answering questions, (and occasionally asking some) is what I do, and I enjoy it.

To answer your question about plastic vs. metal wheels, that's up to you. There is no one, magic, "right", answer for everybody. 
Yes, metal wheels do add a little weight, generally roll more freely, and pick up less rail crud to spread around than plastic wheels. But they are an extra cost, both in dollars and in the time you spend installing them.
Is there some compelling reason why you should change your wheels? No.
Not unless you want to, for any, or all, of the above reasons. The difference is relatively minor. You may end up cleaning crud off your wheels & rails a bit more often than someone who uses metal wheels, but not drastically more often.

There are two old sayings that I think apply to your wheel dilemma.
1) If it ain't broke don't fix it.
2) Never argue with success.

If everything on your railroad is rolling smoothly, and you don't have any derailments, then you're in a better place than most of us. Also you must have done something right! Leave the MTL plastic wheels in, sit back, and enjoy!

"Don't worry. Be happy"

Traction Fan 😊


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> Was the Scrooge comment really necessary? Was that supposed to be humor, or a jab? I don't offend easily, just curious to know your intent.


It was a joke, and meant only as such…..I can’t do anything about your perception of it….


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> It was a joke, and meant only as such…..I can’t do anything about your perception of it….


You could do this and stick your tongue out. 

Emojis help add "body language" to written text to help the reader get context and or intent.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Jeff;
> 
> I have absolutely no problem "putting up" with you. Answering questions, (and occasionally asking some) is what I do, and I enjoy it.
> 
> ...


I think Amazon has delivered my micrometer. I'll run up to see if that's it and start measuring.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

All the plastic ones, which I believe came with the MTL trucks, are right at 0.542.










There are a couple different metal ones. Wide tread and medium tread. The wide ones are all right around 0.562.









The medium tread wheels are 0.557


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> You could do this and stick your tongue out.
> 
> Emojis help add "body language" to written text to help the reader get context and or intent.


Thanks for the course on understanding internet etiquette…..


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## David F (10 mo ago)

Hey Guys. I don't mean to barge in but I'm kinda new to model trains and I have a question about Con-Cor trucks for an F7 UP dummy...i recently came across (was given) an old friends railroad and a few of the locomotives don't run. but when my daughter seen the UP locos she bought me a mail car to match... the truck on the back end of the dummy is broken and there is no coupler. can anybody direct me to a good parts source?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

David F said:


> Hey Guys. I don't mean to barge in but I'm kinda new to model trains and I have a question about Con-Cor trucks for an F7 UP dummy...i recently came across (was given) an old friends railroad and a few of the locomotives don't run. but when my daughter seen the UP locos she bought me a mail car to match... the truck on the back end of the dummy is broken and there is no coupler. can anybody direct me to a good parts source?


Is this what you have?
Con-Cor dummy unit

It may be quicker and simpler just to buy another one for parts.


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## David F (10 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> Is this what you have?
> Con-Cor dummy unit
> 
> It may be quicker and simpler just to buy another one for parts.


That’s it! But then I will still have one with a broken coupler mount :-(


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## David F (10 mo ago)

David F said:


> That’s it! But then I will still have one with a broken coupler mount :-(


How did you post the picture?


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## David F (10 mo ago)




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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Sometimes you need a part, you have to buy a parts unit to get it.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

@David F 

I bought a large lot of train stuff last May, and if I remember correctly, there was a a couple 3-axle N Gauge trucks in the lot. I'll look thorough the box tonight and see if what I may have looks anything like that one in picture.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

David F said:


> I have a question about Con-Cor trucks for an F7 UP dummy.


Not to "rivet count", but that's not an F7. An F-unit would have 2-axle Blomberg trucks. That's an E-unit. The real UP 926 was an E8.
EMD E-unit - Wikipedia
RailPictures.Net Photo: UP 926 Amtrak EMD E8(A) at Los Angeles, California by cz17


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## David F (10 mo ago)

View attachment 579721



GNfan said:


> Not to "rivet count", but that's not an F7. An F-unit would have 2-axle Blomberg trucks. That's an E-unit. The real UP 926 was an E8.
> EMD E-unit - Wikipedia
> RailPictures.Net Photo: UP 926 Amtrak EMD E8(A) at Los Angeles, California by cz17


So THAT’S what rivet counting is! Thank you for putting it in context… I kept asking myself “what the heck is rivet counting ?”  I told you I was new to this.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

@David F 

Here are the 3-axle trucks I have. Notice how the hole is in the center on mine, but off-center on yours? Not sure if you could get a new truck, but you may still be in luck.

Notice on yours how the cage that holds the coupler is empty? It may get not be broken, it might just be missing pieces. If that's the case, you may be able to buy a conversion kit to convert from Con-Cor to something else and get the parts you need.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)




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## David F (10 mo ago)

David F said:


> View attachment 579721
> 
> 
> So THAT’S what rivet counting is! Thank you for putting it in context… I kept asking myself “what the heck is rivet counting ?”  I told you I was new to this.


So E units are 3 axle trucks and F units are 2 axle?


JeffHurl said:


> View attachment 579736
> 
> View attachment 579735


yes, I see that… someone showed me a used dummy on e-bay… a new dummy from con-cor is about the same. Hmmm 🤔 maybe I can look into a body mount coupler? The hunt continues. Do you know of any reliable sources for trucks? Con-cor hasn’t responded to my email request… understaffed? Maybe, but I’m gonna be patient and march on.


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## David F (10 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> View attachment 579736
> 
> View attachment 579735


One more thing… what does your cage look like without the coupler on it? I have a bunch of old rapido coupler and truck stuff


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Simply knowing what kind of locomotive it is does not qualify as rivet counting….that’s merely basic knowledge….


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

David F said:


> One more thing… what does your cage look like without the coupler on it? I have a bunch of old rapido coupler and truck stuff


Maybe you can cannibalize another Con-Cor truck to salvage the parts missing from the cage outward...


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## David F (10 mo ago)

Old_Hobo said:


> Simply knowing what kind of locomotive it is does not qualify as rivet counting….that’s merely basic knowledge….


Okay thanks… my vast knowledge of railroad engines are, steam, diesel and real trains… I used to work at a lumberyard in central California next to a railroad switching yard so I’ve always been interested but never really educated on different types… I do know that they have hoppers in them to drop sand on the rails for traction (that was always fun) we would sell them pallets of sand and dump it in the locomotives


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It takes time to figure out all the types and models of trains….it doesn’t happen overnight, for sure….


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Years ago I bought a book that had drawings and descriptions of most of the North American locos and some rolling stock. This really helped. The last time my wife had the urge to move It got packed. If I can find it, I'll post the name.


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## David F (10 mo ago)

pmcgurin said:


> Years ago I bought a book that had drawings and descriptions of most of the North American locos and some rolling stock. This really helped. The last time my wife had the urge to move It got packed. If I can find it, I'll post the name.


Thanks. That would help. In the meantime, I’m going start studying


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

JeffHurl said:


> Barber, Andrews, Roller Bearing, Friction Bearing, Buckeye, Short coupler, long coupler, medium coupler, etc. etc.
> 
> What the hell does all that stuff mean


The "definitive guide"... Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Much of what I know came from two books called "Diesel Spotter's Guides", published by Kalmbach (the people who publish Model Railroader Magazine). They are small books meant to be "field guides. One covers up to the era of the SD45. The second, called an "Update", has a rather odd looking locomotive on the front cover (a BQ23-7) and covers up thru the SD60's; and has a lot of info about industrial units. I don't know if they're still in print or if the "Update" has been updated.


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## David F (10 mo ago)

Do you have any idea if micro trains makes a replacement truck for a con-for E7 b dummy unit 3 axle with an offset mount?


David F said:


> One more thing… what does your cage look like without the coupler on it? I have a bunch of old rapido coupler and truck stuff


do you know if micro Trains makes a replacement truck for Con-cot Models?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

David F said:


> Do you have any idea if micro trains makes a replacement truck for a con-for E7 b dummy unit 3 axle with an offset mount?
> 
> do you know if micro Trains makes a replacement truck for Con-cot Models?


I don't think they make a replacement truck, but they do make conversion kits where you can replace just the coupler with a newer type of coupler... but I have no idea which one of those would work for you, if any.


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## David F (10 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> I don't think they make a replacement truck, but they do make conversion kits where you can replace just the coupler with a newer type of coupler... but I have no idea which one of those would work for you, if any.


Okay thanks for the quick response…
The hunt continues


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Take a look here to see the Micro Train conversions….

Micro Train Coupler Conversions


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

David F said:


> Do you have any idea if micro trains makes a replacement truck for a con-for E7 b dummy unit 3 axle with an offset mount?
> 
> do you know if micro Trains makes a replacement truck for Con-cot Models?


David F;

ConCor imported and re-branded more locomotives than they made. You photo showing the bottom of your older "ConCor" E-7 says "Made in Japan." That might indicate that the loco was actually manufactured by Kato. Several early ConCor locomotives were made by Kato, including PA-1 locos in both 'A' & 'B' units. Most, if not all, of the 'B' units were dummies with no motor, or gearing. They did have 3 axle trucks, similar to those on your loco, though not identical. I have a couple of ConCor dummy PA 'B'-units. I also have three old E-7s though I think they are Atlas brand models, not ConCor and certainly not Kato. If all you want is a three-axle truck, with a Micro-Trains coupler attached to it, then you might go with Jeffhurl's suggestion of a Micro-Trains three-axle truck. While this is based on a heavyweight passenger car truck, rather than a locomotive truck, maybe its close enough?

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## David F (10 mo ago)

traction fan said:


> David F;
> 
> ConCor imported and re-branded more locomotives than they made. You photo showing the bottom of your older "ConCor" E-7 says "Made in Japan." That might indicate that the loco was actually manufactured by Kato. Several early ConCor locomotives were made by Kato, including PA-1 locos in both 'A' & 'B' units. Most, if not all, of the 'B' units were dummies with no motor, or gearing. They did have 3 axle trucks, similar to those on your loco, though not identical. I have a couple of ConCor dummy PA 'B'-units. I also have three old E-7s though I think they are Atlas brand models, not ConCor and certainly not Kato. If all you want is a three-axle truck, with a Micro-Trains coupler attached to it, then you might go with Jeffhurl's suggestion of a Micro-Trains three-axle truck. While this is based on a heavyweight passenger car truck, rather than a locomotive truck, maybe its close enough?
> 
> ...


It seems like I’m getting closer a little by little. Thanks for your information and help, I’m going to try to find a micro trains truck that may be compatible with my locomotive.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I find it very interesting that older Atlas trucks that came with metal wheels still roll pretty well.

How easy is it to swap out the old rapido coupler and install newer knuckle style couplers onto the old trucks?


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## David F (10 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> I find it very interesting that older Atlas trucks that came with metal wheels still roll pretty well.
> 
> How easy is it to swap out the old rapido coupler and install newer knuckle style couplers onto the old trucks?


I think it all depends on what type of truck. They all seem to have different mechanisms holding the coupler onto the truck. Some older ones have metal clips while others have springs. I find the most difficult part for me is focusing on the small parts. So I would identify the truck that I had, and order extra couplers, just in case you drop some parts and can’t find them.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> I find it very interesting that older Atlas trucks that came with metal wheels still roll pretty well.
> 
> How easy is it to swap out the old rapido coupler and install newer knuckle style couplers onto the old trucks?


JeffHurl;

Mounting Micro-Trains, (or any other knuckle coupler), directly onto the trucks might be difficult. There would really be no point in going to all the necessary effort to install any knuckle coupler other than Micro-Trains. They are the best available in N-scale by a wide margin. You might check the M-T website and see if they make a conversion kit specifically designed for what you asked.
I also suggest you think seriously about body-mounting M-T couplers on all your rolling stock. That way you can use the Atlas trucks, with their metal wheels intact, and the Rapido coupler & "Talgo" mounting arm, cut off the trucks.
Body-mount or truck mount isn't always an easy decision. However, it should be one, or the other, mounting method, not a mix of both. The attached file explains why.
It may be possible to mount a M-T coupler box on the talgo arm of an Atlas truck, but it won't be easy. The M-T coupler & box are made of Delrin, an engineering plastic that does not glue. Therefore you would need to drill & tap the arm to receive the 00/90 screw that M-T uses to mount their couplers. (to the body of the car.) The single screw can let the "draft gear" (box that holds the coupler) swivel, which can make it not couple.
You would also have to end up with all the M-T couplers you laboriously mounted at the exact same correct height. That may prove to be quite a challenge. 
All in all, it might be easier to body mount the M-T couplers than to truck mount them.
Virtually all current locomotives, and many cars, come with body-mounted couplers. Maybe its time to switch? If not, you can always take the easy way out and just swap the Atlas trucks for Micro-Trains trucks. More expensive, but simpler.

regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

As I'm prone to do: come late to the party and muddy the waters a bit more, let me add some more truck and coupler info. Back in the day, when N scale was in it's infancy, N scale was struggling with a reputation (somewhat deserved) of being overly fussy and unreliable. The available track was a good part of the problem, the rail heights and profiles were not terribly consistent between the US companies (Atlas primarily using English measurements and American profiles) and the German and Itaiian companies (primarily Minitrix and Rapido using metric measurements of European prototype rails) This resulted in a lot of derailments when mixed. To reduce this problem a non-prototype wheel design with a taller flange was used, affectionately named "pizza cutter" wheels to help keep the locos and rolling stock on the track. More recently manufacturing standards were developed by the NMRA and slowly adopted by the European and the newcomer Japanese manufacturers. As N scale grew in popularity, MRRers started demanding more realistic detail in "their" scale, like HO had enjoyed for some time, and new automated machinery could reproduce that detail level. The first thing we wanted was a lower profile track so code 55 became the new benchmark. A problem was quickly noticed, especially on Atlas code 55 track, the tall flanges on the "pizza cutter" wheels were hitting the raised track spike details, and the derailments were again a problem, NMRA went back to the drawing board (and their track gauges) to establish shorter more scale flanges for N scale wheels along with minimum weight schedules for freight cars, rather than relying on the flanges to keep them on the track. For a while MT included an extra set of the shorter flange wheels along with the pizza cutter wheels on their trucks included with their cars. So now you know why many of us older modelers, especially those running on code 80 rail have an abundance of extra MT plastic wheels.
Many clubs only allow metal wheels run on their layouts. As stated above the plastic wheels have an almost magnetic attraction to common dirt and debris, which is hard to get off since you can't use many cleaning solvents on plastic wheels, and the buildup is much harder to see on the black plastic compared to metal.


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