# Lionel catalog is up. What peaks your interest



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

The Class A is priced about what I thought it would go for. Darn Lionel had to bring back the B&A Berkshire. In fact I like every steamer in the catalog but my wallet doesn't go that far. Like the three pack stock cars in NYC but not the price of 450.00

WWW.LIONEL.COM


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

This is the first time in years a few things jumped out at me. I like the NYC&HR Woodside cars but then saw the price!!!!!. 6 cars for $1350. My 12 car GGD 20th Century cars were only a couple of hundred more. May have considered the SP Berk if it came with the oil tender.

Pete


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up. A lot of interesting stuff there. I like the Hell Gate design of the base 3. Also, like that they did a Black River and Western train. But same as every other year I look at a Lionel catalog, there is nothing there that would entice me to pay Lionel prices.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Yeah, times are tough. The F7 AA sets are up over 33% from two years ago! Were $899, now $1199. 😬


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Looks like Lionel purchased a lot of MTH tooling and dies.

Bill


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

I noticed a lot of the diesels are marked "ALL NEW PRODUCT". The F7's in particular appear to be the same as always and I don't see any new features in the description. I'm not that familiar with Lionel products so if anyone knows what's all new, I'd love to know. SD40-2's? How are those "All new"? Weird.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Saw a few items that would look great on the S&Y RR, but really can't see paying the big bucks for them. Check book is safe from the big ticket items, probably will buy a few more Menards oil tankers at $25 a pop.

Bill


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## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

Prices are "eye-watering"! But you have to give them some credit - the catalog is huge and there seems to be a lot of options for build your own.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I looked once but want to look again, so that's a change over the last few...


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Off the cuff comments:
At first, I was thinking the Lionchief Plus 2.0 S-2 turbine might have been early Railking tooling? The thick wired tether and the metal drawbar with 2 holes just definitely made me think it was Railking.
Further review, the headlight on the boiler front is different so I'm unsure if they just modified the boiler front or they are not in any way related. I hate the typical plastic connector drawbar Lionchief and LC+ has been using for some time, but just *odd to see a wired tether on a modern Lionel.*


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## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

Might pick up a 44 ton switcher in Ford livery to pull my string of auto loader cars and that's about it.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Since the catalog is out I don’t see a problem with giving a link to the zoom meeting. There is some more detail about a few items particularly how they differ from previous releases. It was done on two days. This is just the scale stuff.






Pete


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Matt Kramer said:


> Might pick up a 44 ton switcher in Ford livery to pull my string of auto loader cars and that's about it.


Is the 44 tonner from the tooling Lionel did a few years ago that was very similar to Lionel's Postwar versions ?

Bill


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Some observations after a quick glance. They are still using the stamped metal folded handrails. Proportions of the S2 look just strange. Some interesting accessories. Nothing there that is going to get me out of my post-war and customs. I could see some nice parts though!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The prices are in outer space, so not much is calling very loud.  I am looking at the PRR A-5 switcher, I might consider one of those. The UP rocket booster train is cool, but the price is not so cool...

The Woodside passenger cars are now selling for $225/ea, it was only a handful of years ago that the same molds from MTH were selling for half that! A bobber caboose for $119? Lionel's prices are getting totally out of hand!


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Impressed that some of the LionChief locos, including the 44 tonner, are MSRP of $250 so actual street price might be close to $200 at some retailers. This is great value for a command loco, although you cannot operate them in conventional mode. Just LionChief remote, universal remote or the app. Operable via the new cab3 base according to the information released.


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## Richard Earl (Mar 26, 2021)

Some of Lionels new products are obviously MTH tooling at much higher prices. But I am happy to still see them being offered.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Nice to see the old K-Line/Lionchief PRR A5 finally getting proper valve gear. Hoping I can add that to my K-Line engine.

Pete


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

The Santa Fe 5011 class 2-10-4 is for sure MTH tooling. Surprisingly thorough it's not crazy overpriced. Last time MTH produced it was 2005 and they wanted $1100 MSRP with PS2 3V. That comes out to about $1600 in 2022 dollars. So at $1700 Lionel is surprisingly in the ballpark. You get Legacy and whistle steam now, but the MTH model had a nice, big Pittman. 

I've got 2 MTH Santa Fe 2-10-4s and see no reason to get the Legacy version.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

On page 108-109, are the Amtrak passenger cars from MTH tooling? I never knew Lionel to make 18" passenger cars in ABS.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> …. The UP rocket booster train is cool, but the price is not so cool...


I thought so too, but not at that price. VL stock cars are the same.

I’m really excited about the commonwealth trucks, exhausted my supply for 2R conversion!


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

I’m liking the bnsf loco , cp military edition locomotives, and the husky stack rerun.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Only one item in my primary road names, and that was not in Legacy. Pricing for diesel Legacy is insane. 

I have most everything I want. I have $7,000 or more "ordered" from 3rd Rail, Atlas, and Lionel. I do not like having so much committed, but what I ordered, if received, would represent most of what I need. So, with no Rock Island, no CB & Q and no worthwhile Milwaukee Road, I seriously do not see me ordering anything. 

In terms of rolling stock - I generally run 1940's to 1970's, but I have been wanting to add the black GATX or similar tank cars, and Husky Stacks. This catalog had no tank cars in Premier, unless I missed them. 

The Husky Stacks are $169.99 or $189.99 for one. (Normal / Graffiti) 

Now, I don't bring this up to say I want or don't want them, but a rising tide will lift the ebay seller's boats. They are looking at this catalog and smiling ear to ear. 

Now the MTH Premier and such on ebay for $109.99 plus shipping will look like a bargain. I would be a buyer of Lionel Legacy / Premier Husky Stacks in full 1:48 with great detail for $100, but those days are long gone. If a fellow wanted to run 15 Husky Stacks and a Legacy freight locomotive, you are looking at a $3500 commitment, maybe more. 

I think it is odd how Lionel does their catalogs. There are a lot of road names with nothing to buy. Not just mine, but it seemed like a lot of road names are left out. Since they are Built to Order, why not have more diversity, 3rd Rail does.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

beachhead2 said:


> On page 108-109, are the Amtrak passenger cars from MTH tooling? I never knew Lionel to make 18" passenger cars in ABS.


They appear to be the same ones produced with Lionel's TMCC Amtrak HHP set from a number of years ago. They weren't made for very long. I have a set of them that I bought from a fellow club Member who downsized to the MTH 15" cars which fit his layout better. They're pretty nice for what they are. Not sure they're worth what Lionel is asking though.


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

glad to see the fire station and transfer dock kept alive
would have liked to see an operating McDonalds and mels diner


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bryan Moran said:


> ... Not just mine, but it seemed like a lot of road names are left out. Since they are Built to Order, why not have more diversity, 3rd Rail does.


Perhaps offering many road names presents a problem. Pre orders split between so many names there's not enough orders in any one name to justify a batch or economies of scale.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I like the John Bull display train on the flat beds, sold out.
I wonder why they didn't label it C&A.
It was built for the Camden and Amboy Railroad, the first railroad built in New Jersey. 
Years later the C&A shipped it to Harrisburg with 2 coaches. I guess the is why they labeled it for the Pennsylvania RR.

I like a lot of things in there, it is the price and preorder I don't like.
Years ago I preordered and paid, I waited for almost a year, just to get my money back, because they didn't built it.
So I just look and dream now.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

After perusing Lionel's catalog, Barf! and Zoiks! is all I got to say, in reference to their offerings and their prices.

Looks like I'll be doing most of my shopping at train shows and used train dealers for the rest of this year.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

How did the F7's escalate so fast?? I like the Soo but $1200 for an AA... 

I bought my SF ABA Super Bass B used one year old for $800.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Jeff T said:


> How did the F7's escalate so fast?? I like the Soo but $1200 for an AA...
> 
> I bought my SF ABA Super Bass B used one year old for $800.


I don’t know, but for that price you’re well into 3rd Rail territory. Plus, you’ll receive a better model IMO.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

86TA355SR said:


> I don’t know, but for that price you’re well into 3rd Rail territory. Plus, you’ll receive a better model IMO.


This ^^^^^^

Pete


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Didn’t Lionel do the Atlantics recently? Surprised to see those again so soon…


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I saw nothing I really wanted. But it looks like a good catalog. Maybe its just me . . .


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I was checking the back of the catalog and noticed the buildings. Twenty years ago when some of these were released you get get them for 12-15 bucks on blowout. Thats all I paid for mine. Catalog price today is $119.
Feels like we are in the Twilight Zone.

Pete


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

Looking through it again I think I'm going to order both of the 6 car sets of DM&IR ore cars. I've wanted some of them for my Premier DM&IR Yellowstone to pull and on the used market 6 packs are selling for close to the $199 price in this catalog. With a discount from a dealer it'll end up being cheaper just to order brand new cars.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I did not see anything I need at these prices.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Looks like Lionel is rolling the dice in hopes that their pricing structure does not hurt pre-order sales. For me, I did not see anything that was a must have at the price listed even with a dealer discount. IMO, the pricing structure will force a lot of Lionel customers that were hesitant in the past to place an order to look at the secondary market for their purchases. Except for a few of the gigantic dealers I doubt their will be much purchased by the average dealer that is not a customer pre-order. So if it is a must have, in most cases you will have to pre-order the item and keep your fingers crossed that Lionel doesn't screw it up.

Bill


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

What peaks my interest? Nothing at those prices. I have all the inventory I need and there are other and better places to put my money. 🥱


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Norton said:


> Nice to see the old K-Line/Lionchief PRR A5 finally getting proper valve gear. Hoping I can add that to my K-Line engine.


Pete, that's one of the few things in the catalog that I'm seriously considering. Not a bad price for a nice switcher.


lou1985 said:


> The Santa Fe 5011 class 2-10-4 is for sure MTH tooling. Surprisingly thorough it's not crazy overpriced. Last time MTH produced it was 2005 and they wanted $1100 MSRP with PS2 3V. That comes out to about $1600 in 2022 dollars. So at $1700 Lionel is surprisingly in the ballpark. You get Legacy and whistle steam now, but the MTH model had a nice, big Pittman.


You can be sure this new model does not have the Pittman motor.  I have the Lionel 2-10-4 from several years ago, I don't need another one.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OOOH the lighted Fastrak!


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

24 hours later, Reality is beginning to sink in. The prices the prices, and then the QA issues, then the Paint issues. Are this last two issues fixed? Lot a money to put down to hope everything is all right. 
I. Wondering if there’s too much in this catalog, and the ordering won’t be there for some products.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

lou1985 said:


> Looking through it again I think I'm going to order both of the 6 car sets of DM&IR ore cars. I've wanted some of them for my Premier DM&IR Yellowstone to pull and on the used market 6 packs are selling for close to the $199 price in this catalog. With a discount from a dealer it'll end up being cheaper just to order brand new cars.


I know very little about the quality of the different lines within the brand. But $33/car seems like a very reasonable price. Especially if the retailers discount it further.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Jeff T said:


> How did the F7's escalate so fast?? I like the Soo but $1200 for an AA...
> 
> I bought my SF ABA Super Bass B used one year old for $800.


I think part of it is the extreme inflation which caught everyone off guard. I still do not have my SD45 from the last catalog and may never get it. Pricing was pre inflation/China container delivery issues. 

We know the offerings in this catalog are not new. They are either Lionel, MTH or KLine. So Lionel is dollar cost averaging over a 2 year period, creating larger margins- if you want it - to make up for post production losses in margin from the last 2 catalogs.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Norton said:


> This ^^^^^^
> 
> Pete


Agreed. I have a huge 3rd Rail order. They are building what I want in my road names at prices lower than Lionel. 

Who is Lionels customer with the Fs at $1200?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Bryan Moran said:


> Agreed. I have a huge 3rd Rail order. They are building what I want in my road names at prices lower than Lionel.
> 
> Who is Lionels customer with the Fs at $1200?


LOL, really makes me happy that I was fortunate enough to purchase a half dozen or so MTH premier ABA's in the $500 to $550 range a few years ago. Doubt that I will ever drop $1200 for a set of Lionel ABA's no matter how great they sound.

Bill


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

Nothing from this catalog, not one scale car under $100, who are they kidding. A few diesels I do like are $699.00. Again a ridiculous price.
Secondary market, here I come.

Dave


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

seayakbill said:


> Doubt that I will ever drop $1200 for a set of Lionel ABA's no matter how great they sound.


Bill, $1200 is the MSRP for just the AA. The Powered and SuperBass B Units are $599 and $549 MSRP respectively. 😮


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I really don’t like running ABAs. AA or AB is good enough and Lionel usually only sells sets as AA. Or AB and gives the super rich the option of the full set.

Are there truly rich O Scale folks out there? I spend a lot and I am not rich.

Most everyone on this thread is out due to cost/price and that is usually the commentary. About 7 months from now we will hear from an infrequent member who doesn’t post much and they will have a thread about their crappy Visionline that arrived damaged or broken. That also helps drive initial cost up.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

Millstonemike said:


> I know very little about the quality of the different lines within the brand. But $33/car seems like a very reasonable price. Especially if the retailers discount it further.


Yeah I've been trying to find a couple used/pre-owned 6 packs of DM&IR ore cars and they have all been $200. At that point I figure new ones at the same price just make sense, especially since I'm not in a rush.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

To be honest I usually just glance at the locomotives in the catalog now. Lionel would have to make an ATSF steam locomotive that hasn't been made in O before for me to even think about buying another locomotive. I've got every locomotive I've ever really wanted. I've been on a locomotive buying spree the past two years (wasn't much else to do) and all of a sudden I've got 30 locomotives. It's really plenty for me. Now I'm looking at expanding my freight rolling stock collection so I can put together a wider variety of trains. But honestly it's cheaper to get that stuff used 99% of the time.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

superwarp1 said:


> …. The prices the prices, and then the QA issues, then the Paint issues. Are this last two issues fixed? …


Nope


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Mixed Freight said:


> After perusing Lionel's catalog, Barf! and Zoiks! is all I got to say, in reference to their offerings and their prices.
> 
> Looks like I'll be doing most of my shopping at train shows and used train dealers for the rest of this year.


Actually, there were a few things I kinda' liked.

But at the prices?.......................


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

I have a ton of stuff bought over the last 25 years or so. So these days if I buy 2-3 items per catalog, mostly rolling stock, that's about it. Will have to look at the catalog and see if anything seems irresistible. Having bought literally 100s of Lionel products with next to no out of box failures, QA issues, paint issues, etc. it's hard to take these complaints as reflective of common problems. When I've had the rare problem (<1-2%) my dealer has made an exchange or refund. Not saying there haven't been the odd lemon over the years, but not anything I've bought. Probably will get a cab3 when it comes out in fall or winter 2022 as I have TMCC/Legacy/LC/LC+ locos and there will be some times when it will be nice to control any of them with a cab-2 or cab-1L remote. May occasionally use the cab3 app on my iPhone as that phone is with me 24/7 for various personal and professional reasons. I would like a 44 tonner at the bargain price of $200-225 with LionChief, but not in the current road names. I have an MTH with PS3 that cost $400 or so that I consider a reasonable price. There are lots of things I don't or cannot spend money on, like a winter place in Florida, a Mercedes SUV and a personal chef, preferably expert in italian dishes. I don't worry about what I cannot or choose not to afford. I take pleasure in what I can have and feel gratitude for. Growing up with next to nothing, I know what limitations feel like, and adult life has been good to me by comparison, financially.

Personally I find it rather sad that so many people manage to anguish over price, QA and other similar issues that would be catastrophic if they were widespread. They are not, or Lionel would long ago have gone out of business. So while I know what disappointment and frustration feel like, I don't experience it in this hobby. Sorry that so many do, and a good bit of it seems like unnecessary melodrama.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

neilblumberg said:


> I have a ton of stuff bought over the last 25 years or so. So these days if I buy 2-3 items per catalog, mostly rolling stock, that's about it. Will have to look at the catalog and see if anything seems irresistible. Having bought literally 100s of Lionel products with next to no out of box failures, QA issues, paint issues, etc. it's hard to take these complaints as reflective of common problems. When I've had the rare problem (<1-2%) my dealer has made an exchange or refund. Not saying there haven't been the odd lemon over the years, but not anything I've bought. Probably will get a cab3 when it comes out in fall or winter 2022 as I have TMCC/Legacy/LC/LC+ locos and there will be some times when it will be nice to control any of them with a cab-2 or cab-1L remote. May occasionally use the cab3 app on my iPhone as that phone is with me 24/7 for various personal and professional reasons. I would like a 44 tonner at the bargain price of $200-225 with LionChief, but not in the current road names. I have an MTH with PS3 that cost $400 or so that I consider a reasonable price. There are lots of things I don't or cannot spend money on, like a winter place in Florida, a Mercedes SUV and a personal chef, preferably expert in italian dishes. I don't worry about what I cannot or choose not to afford. I take pleasure in what I can have and feel gratitude for. Growing up with next to nothing, I know what limitations feel like, and adult life has been good to me by comparison, financially.
> 
> Personally I find it rather sad that so many people manage to anguish over price, QA and other similar issues that would be catastrophic if they were widespread. They are not, or Lionel would long ago have gone out of business. So while I know what disappointment and frustration feel like, I don't experience it in this hobby. Sorry that so many do, and a good bit of it seems like unnecessary melodrama.


Of course Neil. I was waiting for the Lionel Apologist commentary. You’ve basically discounted everyone’s real world Lionel experiences as “melodrama” and prices as something we should not complain about.

I spend money on the hobby. An average of $500 a month for 7 years. But all you have to do is look at a 2018 Lionel catalog, or 2016 or whatever, to see a year after year price increase on average of 12.5%. And now, in one year, the year their major competitor cashed it in, a price increase of 24%.

And Lionchief detailing can’t begin to match MTH Rail King in most cases. At least for Rail King Imperial.

I have about $2100 in order through your company. Not sure I will see any of it or when, but if product is what I am looking for, I pony up. Now, as noted, Lionel is going after 3rd Rail. This should be interesting.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> …. Now, as noted, Lionel is going after 3rd Rail.…


What do you mean?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Neil has always been a big time Lionel fan, thats cool, I like Lionel also but not to the extent that Neil has. I have been buying Lionel product for over 65 years but I have also bought a lot of train stuff from all the other manufactures also. Was a big time fan of K-Line for many years before they turned out the lights and then MTH before Mike turned out the lights. 

The way I see it, 3rd Rail, Lionel and Atlas will be releasing product in the years to come at eye popping prices. If you want it, its going to cost ya. Williams by Bachmann and Menards are going to be the low end suppliers. Looks like for the time being Lionel has cornered the starter set business but it is possible that Menards could enter this market with their very, very deep pockets in a giant way if they so desire. Menards is a family run, private multi-billion dollar company, so who knows what the future holds for electric trains. 

Bill


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, this was about what peaks our interest. it sounds more like Paula when she goes to the store. Yeah, prices have exploded. 

We model N and W so the A is a definite. That is probably about all. A 1218 is on the layout now. Harry will weather the new locomotive and we may have him change the number to something not cataloged.

We mostly buy from Scott because we can depend on the quality of his products. When we purchase from Lionel, we have low expectations. And since we have over 85 Lionel engines purchased over 50 years, we feel that we can judge quality.


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

I see nothing worthwhile in the new catalog. Not one scale freight car under $100 and the extreme high price of locomotives will keep me on the sidelines. $699.00 for a es44ac, u gotta be kidding me!!!! Anybody who pays these prices need your head to be examined!!!

TIME TO SEND LIONEL A MESSAGE!!!!

Dave


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

86TA355SR said:


> What do you mean?


Pricing new AAs and AB at $1200.00. That’s 3rd Rail pricing territory. One assumes Lionel feels it at least has the detail and features to compete with 3rd Rail and with MTH Premier gone and Atlas not able to deliver Lionel figures they might as well take some 3rd Rail business.


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## arkady (May 15, 2013)

Good Lord, I just had a look at that catalog, and you chaps aren't kidding about the prices!


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

I saw a few items that caught my interest. But after the latest (and still ongoing) issue with my Lionel Legacy Pacific and other recent QC issue on Legacy locomotives I've purchased, there is no way in hell I'm going to drop any coin on a Lionel locomotive right now. I'd have to put my hands on it and test run it before I'd even think about buying a Lionel locomotive, so no pre-orders for me. I think their prices are getting out of hand. $1200 for an F7 A-A set and $549 for an unpowered B unit?????????? No thank you. I can live without them.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

neilblumberg said:


> Personally I find it rather sad that so many people manage to anguish over price, QA and other similar issues that would be catastrophic if they were widespread. They are not, or Lionel would long ago have gone out of business. So while I know what disappointment and frustration feel like, I don't experience it in this hobby. Sorry that so many do, and a good bit of it seems like unnecessary melodrama.


Of the last four Legacy locomotives I purchased new, three of them had major flaws in them. First was my Legacy E8 that had a truck side frame that looked like melted plastic due to a poor casting. It stuck out like a sore thumb. The next was my Legacy SP AC-9 with a bent tender axle. It appeared they bent it when they pressed the wheels on the axle. The tender looked like a clown car going down the tracks because the axle was so bent. The current issue I'm dealing with is a SP heavy Pacific that I just got a few weeks ago. One of the number boards was broken off, the steam chest was loose on the frame, a water tank hatch on tender won't close all the way, poor finish on pilot truck wheel leaving a blister that caused a loud click during operation, and lastly, the smoke fan started loudly squealing within the first minute of operation.

I own a grand total of 6 Legacy locomotives. That means 50% of the Lionel Legacy locomotives I bought were defective out of the box. If you haven't had any issues with your Lionel products, that's great. But to say it's melodrama for me to be pissed that a locomotive I just dropped $1,300 on had to be sent back to the factory within a few days of my receiving it is a bit unfair.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Maxum said:


> Of the last four Legacy locomotives I purchased new, three of them had major flaws in them. First was my Legacy E8 that had a truck side frame that looked like melted plastic due to a poor casting. It stuck out like a sore thumb. The next was my Legacy SP AC-9 with a bent tender axle. It appeared they bent it when they pressed the wheels on the axle. The tender looked like a clown car going down the tracks because the axle was so bent. The current issue I'm dealing with is a SP heavy Pacific that I just got a few weeks ago. One of the number boards was broken off, the steam chest was loose on the frame, a water tank hatch on tender won't close all the way, poor finish on pilot truck wheel leaving a blister that caused a loud click during operation, and lastly, the smoke fan started loudly squealing within the first minute of operation.
> 
> I own a grand total of 6 Legacy locomotives. That means 50% of the Lionel Legacy locomotives I bought were defective out of the box. If you haven't had any issues with your Lionel products, that's great. But to say it's melodrama for me to be pissed that a locomotive I just dropped $1,300 on had to be sent back to the factory within a few days of my receiving it is a bit unfair.


You've had a disastrous experience and I'd be pissed too. Wasn't directing the comment at you, but at particularly those who haven't had any problems but extrapolate from other experiences to discuss how the sky is falling. 

Who is your dealer? I have a local dealer and use Charles Ro occasionally. No problems (well one or two) with anything to speak of with literally dozens of locos and probably 100+ accessories and rolling stock. If there were pervasive problems (as opposed to individual disasters like yours), I would have almost certainly experienced them with that volume. My local dealer does not perceive a consistent quality control issue. I think some of the experiences are due to badly packaged shipping damage and local cave dwellers delivering packages in a hostile manner. Some are due to factory design or production defects, but these are, I think, a minority of what is being reported. If you are not having your locos shipped to you, I'm at a loss for what might have caused your insanely bad luck.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

I buy prewar trains ready for the trash bin for restoration from eBay and local train shows. No mfg. or dealer issues. I expect to replace, repair, and repaint ...

BTW: Most purchases are in the 10s of dollars. One loco, a 249E in nice condition, went for $112.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm considering the Legacy A-5...


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## 71camaro (Jul 1, 2015)

Maxum said:


> Of the last four Legacy locomotives I purchased new, three of them had major flaws in them. First was my Legacy E8 that had a truck side frame that looked like melted plastic due to a poor casting. It stuck out like a sore thumb. The next was my Legacy SP AC-9 with a bent tender axle. It appeared they bent it when they pressed the wheels on the axle. The tender looked like a clown car going down the tracks because the axle was so bent. The current issue I'm dealing with is a SP heavy Pacific that I just got a few weeks ago. One of the number boards was broken off, the steam chest was loose on the frame, a water tank hatch on tender won't close all the way, poor finish on pilot truck wheel leaving a blister that caused a loud click during operation, and lastly, the smoke fan started loudly squealing within the first minute of operation.
> 
> I own a grand total of 6 Legacy locomotives. That means 50% of the Lionel Legacy locomotives I bought were defective out of the box. If you haven't had any issues with your Lionel products, that's great. But to say it's melodrama for me to be pissed that a locomotive I just dropped $1,300 on had to be sent back to the factory within a few days of my receiving it is a bit unfair.


That has to be frustrating, but the counter is that there are many like me who have dozens ( I have between three and four dozen Legacy or Vision Line locomotives), and I have had two issues. One rectified itself with no repair, simply a shell removal (pinched wire, maybe?), the other went back for repair. The problem that went back for repair was on a 3-truck Shay with gear-mesh issues. I'm a member of an organization that runs trains publicly, so, in December, many of my locomotives get many hours of fairly hard running. None of my Legacy items have failed, while I have had a half dozen MTH engines with board failures (Proto3 VO-1000, RS-3, Russian Decapod, WM H9; Proto2 Train Master, K4).

Often, it's just luck. I have a new Audi RS6. So far, most owners have had no problems and owner satisfaction is very high. I have, however, found missing screws on front and rear bumpers, I have a rattling and noisy dash, I have had a seatbelt fail, I have a noisy sunroof. Just like a $1,300 locomotive should be problem-free, so too should a very expensive car. Sometimes, we just end up buying things built on Friday afternoon.

Not discounting the issues, just pointing out that they exist across products/brands/hobbies. Lemons are out there, some people just end up with them more often.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Man, just about any topic on the new catalog, pricing, or CAB3 has gone to plaid.








This winter storm+ covid+general state of things=


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

neilblumberg said:


> You've had a disastrous experience and I'd be pissed too. Wasn't directing the comment at you, but at particularly those who haven't had any problems but extrapolate from other experiences to discuss how the sky is falling.
> 
> Who is your dealer? I have a local dealer and use Charles Ro occasionally. No problems (well one or two) with anything to speak of with literally dozens of locos and probably 100+ accessories and rolling stock. If there were pervasive problems (as opposed to individual disasters like yours), I would have almost certainly experienced them with that volume. My local dealer does not perceive a consistent quality control issue. I think some of the experiences are due to badly packaged shipping damage and local cave dwellers delivering packages in a hostile manner. Some are due to factory design or production defects, but these are, I think, a minority of what is being reported. If you are not having your locos shipped to you, I'm at a loss for what might have caused your insanely bad luck.


I use a variety of dealers. They usually all come the same way (MTH, Lionel, Atlas), in the factory shipper with a label stuck on it. With the exception of maybe a number board being broken off, none of the issues I've had have are due to rough shipping. They've either been manufacturing errors or assembly errors.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

71camaro said:


> Not discounting the issues, just pointing out that they exist across products/brands/hobbies. Lemons are out there, some people just end up with them more often.


I hear ya. It's just been a pisser when 50% of my Lionel Legacy locomotives have shown up with issues.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Maxum said:


> I hear ya. It's just been a pisser when 50% of my Lionel Legacy locomotives have shown up with issues.


I wish I had your success rate! 😭


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

beachhead2 said:


> I wish I had your success rate! 😭
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I really like the SOO F7's, but I have a hard time with $1700 for something I can only run at the club. (read that as no home layout) Besides, why are the roof fans on the A units painted white, while the roof fans on the B are black??

Maybe get a MPC ABA repainted??


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

…


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Bought the recent Camelback. After 20 minutes the whistle steam stopped, after 30 the sounds stopped. Sent it back to Ro and have heard nothing. I want a refund, period... Ready to contact the credit card company. Just tired of this disappointment.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

It's the best of times...and the worst of times.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My recent Camelback has run fine, no glitches at all. My only complaint was the new audio board in the tender omitted the battery connection and the sounds would cut out across my double-slip switches and one of the curved switches. I had to break out the meter and find a way to connect a large capacitor to the new version of the board to fix that issue. Now the sounds can carry over about a two second power interruption.

The same problem is present in my two recent 10-wheeler locomotives, I applied the same fix. I presume all the new Legacy steam is going to have the new audio board, so I ordered a bunch of the large caps, I'm ready!


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## rlomba8204 (Sep 20, 2015)

Stack cars with the O31 radius capability.


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## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I had to break out the meter and find a way to connect a large capacitor to the new version of the board to fix that issue. Now the sounds can carry over about a two second power interruption.


John - You have to know that you are one of, if not THE, top person on here regarding electrical repairs and general creativity. Reading your comment; I can safely say I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not as technically literate with the modern stuff as others.

So this is a fault that Lionel has that you are comfortable with fixing yourself. Same would go for an Audi Technician and the earlier comments. You have the tools and skill to fix these things yourself. I can only speak for myself - in that if I paid these large prices; I actually DO expect the product to work AS ANTICIPATED. Very selective about my wording there. 

I have been reading these comments and had kept out of the "melodrama". But I can confirm that I will not be buying anything new from Lionel without going through my local hobby shop. At least we (the hobby shop and I) and I can open it up upon arrival and make sure it is good to go before bringing it home.


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## arkady (May 15, 2013)

neilblumberg said:


> Personally I find it rather sad that so many people manage to anguish over price...


Gosh, I wish I had so much disposable income that I could look with pity on people who "anguish over price."

Personally, I haven't bought any _new_ Lionel for over twenty years, so it doesn't affect me directly. But I have no trouble understanding how others find today's Lionel prices an impossible barrier to surmount.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

"Gosh, I wish I had so much disposable income that I could look with pity on people who "anguish over price."

It's not pity but astonishment and sadness that folks can anguish over the price of toys. If it were the costs of food, housing, transportation or medical care, I would be more sympathetic but equally sad. We all read about folks in this situation in the news every day. Toy trains, not so much. So yes, it seems like self-indulgent melodrama and a lack of perspective/insight to get into a righteous moral dudgeon over Lionel's prices.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> My recent Camelback has run fine, no glitches at all. My only complaint was the new audio board in the tender omitted the battery connection and the sounds would cut out across my double-slip switches and one of the curved switches. I had to break out the meter and find a way to connect a large capacitor to the new version of the board to fix that issue. Now the sounds can carry over about a two second power interruption.
> 
> The same problem is present in my two recent 10-wheeler locomotives, I applied the same fix. I presume all the new Legacy steam is going to have the new audio board, so I ordered a bunch of the large caps, I'm ready!


I know you posted this elsewhere but do you have a diagram handy for future reference. Why did Dave omit the connections for a battery?????


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

superwarp1 said:


> Why did Dave omit the connections for a battery?????


Pure speculation, but since the LCP2/LCP3 based boards have so many possible "command" control methods (universal remote, bluetooth app, TMCC/Legacy) they assumed that conventional was not as likely as before- so no need for a battery or just didn't make it into the design requirements.

The truth is probably an even deeper answer- the guys designing the electronics are not even train enthusiasts and if they passed that bar, they are not seasoned veteran train enthusiasts that test and run conventional. All you have to do is look at the other recent topic- a handful of recent LCP2/LCP3 based engines running jerky in conventional. Some electronic engineer gets a list of specifications and design requirements, may not even know what the board is going into. That requirement may not have been explicitly stated,so conventional operation was a design requirement, but an external battery or large capacitor storage requirement was not listed. Again, this is a whole new series of boards, not modified previous versions.

In true contractor consultant form- there is good money in not fixing "the problem" and *selling you on buying yet another piece of control equipment* (minimum download the "free" app, next get a universal remote, last pony up to Legacy). I know that doesn't solve the audio cutout problem- but they see that as your track problem or as an issue for you to solve your power problem. I'm not saying it's right, but from their perspective, a liability and cost. *It works as designed or intended.*


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Desperado said:


> I have been reading these comments and had kept out of the "melodrama". But I can confirm that I will not be buying anything new from Lionel without going through my local hobby shop. At least we (the hobby shop and I) and I can open it up upon arrival and make sure it is good to go before bringing it home.


Well, this is something that quite likely would go unnoticed until you got to run it some. I actually did run the Camelback at the store and everything worked. It wasn't until I got it home and ran it on my layout that the issue of sound dropout happened. This is a problem that plagued older models as well, but they had a battery connection that would solve the problem. The new sound boards no longer offer that option.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

superwarp1 said:


> I know you posted this elsewhere but do you have a diagram handy for future reference. Why did Dave omit the connections for a battery?????


Don't have a clue why they dropped the battery connection, that can't have been a big money saver! In any case, the fix is simple, add a 2200uf 35V capacitor.

*Solder the leads here...*









*Snake them out from under the board, perhaps file a little notch to clearance.*










*FInd a spot for the cap in the tender, job done.*


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

On the topic of interest of the new catalog.....

I spent much of yesterday debating purchase of the new 2-10-10-2 (from the previous catalog). On one hand, the stereo sound (speaker in engine + speakers in tender) is impressive to me over the previous version. My debate was why "reward" Lionel with yet another purchase?

*Nothing in the new catalog really struck me*, the new class A is nice, but since it is new tooling, what mechanical and electrical problems might be present? Also, the raging debate on what is correct details is an interesting read. I saw the class A at York, didn't really swing me for jumping on that grenade then or now.

I had a choice last night and some money to spend. I bought a used MTH PS2 3V N&W 0-8-0 20-3123-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS. A fairly sure safe bet, at a reasonable price, to where I could buy several items, *instead of one Lionel*. I should add, just before the Lionel Camelbacks were released, I had a similar debate and a good deal on a MTH PS2 3V Premier Jersey Central Camelback. I may not have whistle steam or bluetooth of the Lionel, but I'm happy with my choice. You know, funny enough, since I used a DIY BCR, *technically I too had to add capacitors to my tender, *just a different reason *and there was a plug. *


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Thanks John, Pics Saved.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Is Lionel still coming out with the 2-8-0 they offered for pre buy last fall?









New York Central LEGACY 2-8-0 #960


Manufacturer of model trains and accessories in O and standard gauges.




www.lionel.com





Tom


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Krieglok said:


> Is Lionel still coming out with the 2-8-0 they offered for pre buy last fall?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shipping date is listed as 7/22.

Pete


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Darn that long.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Thanks for the pics John. Useful if I ever buy a new engine.
I have the TMCC version of the NYC 2-8-0. Nice little engine. Someday I will lop off the Harriman number boards the TMCC engines came with.

Pete


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Norton said:


> .... Someday I will lop off the Harriman number boards the TMCC engines came with.
> 
> Pete


The Harriman summer estate (Monroe NY) was donated to Columbia University. Columbia held special sessions there. Half the estate was turned into "Hilton like" hotel rooms, the other half left in it's original motif. I stayed there one week. Very impressive to have megabucks in the 19th century. The dining room, music room (for an orchestra), the after dinner "snifter" room with 3' high brass castings of his two pooches bracketing the fireplace. In the bedroom suites, each had it's own bath with a fireplace. The staff would warmup the room and water prior to bathing.

Must have been nice playing with real trains


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Interesting Mike. I just looked up Harriman and his house. Looks like the Chinese own it now. Ridden trails in Orange County.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I laid in a supply of the 2200uf caps for the expected rush to fix the sound dropouts.


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## RedJimmy1955 (Aug 23, 2021)

its "piques" your interest. Trying to help


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

It's been a week now since Lionel's new 2022 Catalog dropped. And aside from the predictable fanboy commentary that we've all learned to just casually dismiss, most of the comments here are well-grounded in reality. If you've been in the hobby for a few decades, these latest prices are tough to stomach... especially Bobber Caboose offerings at $119 MSRP and woodside passenger cars based on MTH tooling now priced at 2X MTH's pricing with no additional value-add. Seems Lionel is now keeping company with eBay shysters... but I never expected that's the company Lionel would wanna keep. But it's 2022, and here we are. I guess Howard has gotta safeguard his 401K one way or another.

Having said all of that, I think Ryan Kunkle nailed it in one of the early catalog review video's... when he closed out his catalog walk-thru by stating he hoped there are ONE or TWO items that folks would wanna add to their collection. 

That very may well be Lionel's new approach... namely, pump out a catalog with an untold number of SKU's, but acknowledge that any one person might only buy just one or two items these days. Gone are the days where toy train enthusiasts could enjoy compiling a huge, multi-page, pre-order list akin to their childhood Christmas lists to Santa after browsing through Sears and Spiegel Christmas catalogs. 

So in the spirit of now being a highly selective buyer just looking for unique offerings... the one item that jumps out at me in this catalog is the Aberdeen, Carolina & Western F9 offerings with a mix of 4 passenger cars. That's a real-life, eye-catching paint-scheme. It's not fantasy, but it is quite whimsical. It literally jumps off the page-spread in the catalog. And if Lionel's overseas factory can find it in itself to apply the proper colors, that's gonna be very popular with buyers. So I'll likely pre-order that with the understanding if Lionel screws up the colors, the dealer can ship it back to Lionel.

Now two other goodies I'm considering are actually not in the catalog per se, but instead are custom-runs from Mr. Muffin's Trains. Steve Nelson just announced a bunch of custom-runs, but two that caught my eye are Vision Line Class A and Berkshire steam locomotives. The Vision Class A will be done in dark Brunswick Green of the Pennsylvania RR. Yes... it's a fantasy "what if" offering. But that's fine by me. When Steve asked me about the viability of such an offering a few days before the new catalog dropped, I told him I'd spring for one IF AND ONLY IF Lionel used the same Brunswick Green they did for their VisionLine Pennsy GG-1's that were made a few years ago (i.e., with the special arcing effect on the pantographs). Any other "green" would be a deal-breaker. He agreed. 

The other cool custom-run from Mr. Muffin's Trains that I think will be jumping off the shelf is the green Boston & Albany Berk -- very similar to the one K-Line produced back in the early 2000's. With Legacy electronics and the latest smoke/steam effects, that's gonna be one fine offering. And again... hopefully Lionel will get the green color correct.

Lastly, I wouldn't be a healthy U.S. Male, if I didn't also plan to order the 3 new Wings of Angels boxcars. I have the complete set produced to date, so these 3 new boxcars will add to the train quite nicely.

So that's my short-list for this catalog. More than I expected. But over half of the expense comes from custom-run offerings that weren't even featured IN the catalog.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Ro recently posted their prices. Woodside passenger cars can be had for $325/pair. Still double what I just paid for one at 80 bucks.
FWIW assuming the B&A and B&M Berks are made like their last run, they will have a big motor in the firebox vs K-Lines small motor in the smokebox.

Pete


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

So I’ve looked around off and on at Forums, Facebook Pages and other things I belong to, I want to get a Santa Fe 2-10-4 and maybe a Doodlebug but I have to see if I have any money left after buying a Lionel 4-12-2 unless I find an MTH one at a good price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

SDIV Tim said:


> So I’ve looked around off and on at Forums, Facebook Pages and other things I belong to, I want to get a Santa Fe 2-10-4 and maybe a Doodlebug but I have to see if I have any money left after buying a Lionel 4-12-2 unless I find an MTH one at a good price.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you wanting Proto, Proto2, or Proto3 9000 class? I have a Proto2 9000 class I bought a couple of years ago off Ebay that was NIB for about $600. I saw one sold on Ebay last November for $545. My dad has one as well. That are beautiful locomotives and run great. Good sound too. Keep your eyes open and you'll probably find one at a good deal.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

SDIV Tim said:


> So I’ve looked around off and on at Forums, Facebook Pages and other things I belong to, I want to get a Santa Fe 2-10-4 and maybe a Doodlebug but I have to see if I have any money left after buying a Lionel 4-12-2 unless I find an MTH one at a good price.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just get the MTH version Santa Fe 2-10-4. Same tooling but no whistle steam. In exchange you get a 9434 Pittman and a bullet proof drive train. I've got 2. They are excellent runners/pullers. They rival articulateds for pulling power.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

lou1985 said:


> Just get the MTH version Santa Fe 2-10-4. Same tooling but no whistle steam. In exchange you get a 9434 Pittman and a bullet proof drive train. I've got 2. They are excellent runners/pullers. They rival articulateds for pulling power.
> View attachment 575726


They look good. I've been keeping eye out for a Proto 2 or Proto 3 version of the Santa Fe 2-10-4. It would keep company with my MTH Proto 3 Santa Fe big Northern and Proto 3 Santa Fe Hudson.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Maxum said:


> They look good. I've been keeping eye out for a Proto 2 or Proto 3 version of the Santa Fe 2-10-4. It would keep company with my MTH Proto 3 Santa Fe big Northern and Proto 3 Santa Fe Hudson.


Stouts auction.



https://connect.invaluable.com/stout/auction-lot/mth-modern-o-gauge-20-3056-1-santa-fe-2-10-4-texa_5B1473C9BD



Pete


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

Norton said:


> Stouts auction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Norton. That one looks like it's had a rough life. It's missing parts as well as the box. I'm looking for one with the wireless drawbar.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

Maxum said:


> Thanks Norton. That one looks like it's had a rough life. It's missing parts as well as the box. I'm looking for one with the wireless drawbar.


You're never going to find one like that because MTH never made a Santa Fe 2-10-4 with a wireless drawbar. They last made it in 2005 (I have that one). It has PS2 3V and a wired tether.


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## MrGrinch (Sep 8, 2021)

Just put an order in for the Illinois Central Heritage ES44AC. This will round out my IC stable with a legacy controlled engine.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Maxum said:


> Thanks Norton. That one looks like it's had a rough life. It's missing parts as well as the box. I'm looking for one with the wireless drawbar.


Do you prefer the wireless connection or the lack of the loop? You can straighten a wired tether. K-Line, 3rd Rail and even Lionel use straight tethers without a problem. I have used MTH tethers with the straight connector and also taken the right angle connector, nibbled away at the heel, pulled the wire straight and held it in place with epoxy. A bit bulkier than the straight connector but unseen after installing a cab apron.

Pete


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

"especially Bobber Caboose offerings at $119 MSRP and woodside passenger cars based on MTH tooling now priced at 2X MTH's pricing with no additional value-add."

For what it's worth, Ryan Kunkle has stated that both sets of tooling have been modified to include greater detail. I think that's credible since there is plenty of other former MTH tooling that isn't exceptionally pricier than when it was equipped with MTH PS3. In the interviews Ryan has given on various videos and podcasts, I was amazed at the amount of MTH tooling they bought and have modified for Legacy or LC + 2.0. Apparently most of it is now in Lionel's contractors hands (purchased) and some remains in MTH factory hands (leased). Certainly a big change from the days of the lawsuit . Then again, MTH isn't really competing with Lionel any longer. Pleasant to see entirely collegial relationships between the remaining MTH people and the current Lionel people.

Note added: Charles Ro is charging $87 for the bobber cabeese. $210 for the 44 Ton Locos with LionChief/Bluetooth. So some things more expensive than expected, others really well positioned for the less expensive end of the hobby.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

Norton said:


> Do you prefer the wireless connection or the lack of the loop? You can straighten a wired tether. K-Line, 3rd Rail and even Lionel use straight tethers without a problem. I have used MTH tethers with the straight connector and also taken the right angle connector, nibbled away at the heel, pulled the wire straight and held it in place with epoxy. A bit bulkier than the straight connector but unseen after installing a cab apron.
> 
> Pete


Lack of the loop is a big reason for wanting a wireless drawbar. I didn't know there was a straight connector option. Thanks for the information. Also, I have found differences in features on older PS2 locomotives vs. later PS2 and PS3 locomotives (plus the 3v vs. 5v board issues). That's the other big reason I prefer later PS2 and PS3 steam locomotives.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I posted these a while back on doing straight tethers. I have come to prefer them given the hassle to plug in the MTH ”wireless” ones.




https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/updating-older-mth-steam





https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/alternative-method-for-straightening-mth-tethers



Pete


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Since we model N and W, we have to have an A. Not sure which one but will likely obtain from Steve and get weathered by Harry.

Paula likes horses so maybe a horse car but the price is tough to justify.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> The other cool custom-run from Mr. Muffin's Trains that I think will be jumping off the shelf is the green Boston & Albany Berk -- very similar to the one K-Line produced back in the early 2000's. With Legacy electronics and the latest smoke/steam effects, that's gonna be one fine offering. And again... hopefully Lionel will get the green color correct.


Your welcome but I can't take all the credit for this one, there were several of us who pushed for this engine. Most are hoping for color like this and it would be cool to get it painted like this HO model. Sad we can't get Lionel to make the short early tender for these.


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## JDaddy1225 (12 mo ago)

Bang for the buck is the iconic Rocket booster train. For 1200 dollars for the whole set its a great value.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Sorry... I have nothing useful to add other than this thread has been piqued my interest in vocabulary.

peek, peak, pique

Now, pardon me as I tuck and roll to avoid the stuff you all are wanting throw at me, LOL!


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

MrGrinch said:


> Just put an order in for the Illinois Central Heritage ES44AC. This will round out my IC stable with a legacy controlled engine.


Had to go back and look at that. Too bad it wasn't the ICG orange pattern. The flat black was likely easy enough to do with NS being essentially the same except name.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

Norton said:


> I posted these a while back on doing straight tethers. I have come to prefer them given the hassle to plug in the MTH ”wireless” ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I know some people despise the MTH wireless draw, but I have had pretty good luck with them. Unfortunately it still not as good as Lionel's IR drawbar system.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

JeffHurl said:


> Sorry... I have nothing useful to add other than this thread has been piqued my interest in vocabulary.
> 
> peek, peak, pique
> 
> Now, pardon me as I tuck and roll to avoid the stuff you all are wanting throw at me, LOL!


I'm shocked you didn't pick on the rest of the grammar in the sentence. 

*What peaks your interested*


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## MrGrinch (Sep 8, 2021)

Bryan Moran said:


> Had to go back and look at that. Too bad it wasn't the ICG orange pattern. The flat black was likely easy enough to do with NS being essentially the same except name.


I would have loved an orange and white legacy GP or SD. I’ve been able to pick up the chocolate F, Orange and white SD, Black w/green diamond GP, all conventional older stuff. It is family ties for me, grandfather was a conductor on the IC for 40+ years, so that is what inspires me.


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## Anthony MPC (Nov 3, 2021)

Yeah I”ll stick to the secondary market due to my budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm shocked you didn't pick on the rest of the grammar in the sentence.
> 
> *What peaks your interested*


Neither did I


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

MrGrinch said:


> I would have loved an orange and white legacy GP or SD. I’ve been able to pick up the chocolate F, Orange and white SD, Black w/green diamond GP, all conventional older stuff. It is family ties for me, grandfather was a conductor on the IC for 40+ years, so that is what inspires me.


That makes sense and is a fun way to approach what we collect. I do the same with Rock Island. I would add Illinois Central locomotives but I have to draw the line somewhere.


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