# elctrical switches



## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

when first starting out I bought some ho switches that were used . this person was really nice and sent me right and lefts ( approx. 25 switches ) a buck apiece . he tore his ho set up down.along with that he sent me spare switch motors and the remote atlas switches . I tried one and the switch would work sometimes . tried 3 times . I'm looking to replace the remote switches and wondering what should I buy ? just replace atlas or something different ?
mike


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

bristolman2012 said:


> when first starting out I bought some ho switches that were used . this person was really nice and sent me right and lefts ( approx. 25 switches ) a buck apiece . he tore his ho set up down.along with that he sent me spare switch motors and the remote atlas switches . I tried one and the switch would work sometimes . tried 3 times . I'm looking to replace the remote switches and wondering what should I buy ? just replace atlas or something different ?
> mike


I have a bunch of atlas switches that have work just fine for me, most people will probably say get Piko turnouts.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

the switch is the problem , borrowed new one from friend and switch operates just fine . would a momentary push button work ?http://www.mouser.com/images/cherryelectricalproducts/lrg/Cherry_KF Series _Photo.jpg


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

bristolman2012 said:


> the switch is the problem , borrowed new one from friend and switch operates just fine . would a momentary push button work ?http://www.mouser.com/images/cherryelectricalproducts/lrg/Cherry_KF Series _Photo.jpg


 oh i'm sorry, yeeah, you could use momentary push buttons like that, but the wiring might be wierd... i would just get more atlas ones.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

First, let me rephrase your first post. You have some turnouts that are both right and left which include twin coil switch machines that are actuated by a remote switch that is the Atlas 2x2 switch that has a red button. If this is the case, then yes, a SPST momentary on would do the trick however you will need two for each turnout. There are 3 terminals on the switch machine, center common, outside two for direction. Each SPST would activate one side. Am I on the right track?


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

This could be the wiring diagram you are looking for:


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I do not like the Atlas switches. I think they wear out sooner and are not as clean looking in a control panel. I prefer to use normal SPST switches. The ones I use are all metal and ony cost $1 - $2 each in bulk on EBay. They look like any other switch in my panel. 

Regardless of the witch you use I would recommend you get a CDU for you switch machines. If one of the switches is held down this will prevent the motor from burning out.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Peco-HO-N-PL35-Capacitor-Discharge-Unit-p/pec-pl35.htm


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

A small clarification...the posts refer to SPST switches and that is correct.
However, what they are referring to, in most cases is a normally open
push button. You would need two in your panel for each turnout. If you
have a DC power pack you can use the accessories terminals for power.

If, however, you plan a layout with a number of these twin coil turnouts
I would recommend that you use a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) to protect
the twin coils from burnout due to accidentally holding a button down
too long or a defect button.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Also, just a note: Piko is not Peco. Piko is a German company that makes a proprietary line of model railroad products; Peco is a British company that makes products compatible with North American HO scale track.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You can get toggle switches (ones with handles) that are sprung such that they return to center. These would be ideal to control twin coil switch machines, however you might consider a capacitor discharge unit to supply the power as it would prevent damage to the machines if you hold the toggle too long. This would avoid having to use 2 push buttons. Alternately you could use a DPDT toggle switch to control which coil to activate and a push button to do the actual activation, that way you could use the other pole on the DPDT switch to active an LED to show the position of the switch. there has been a lot recent discussion on this topic.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I use the DPDT switch and push button on the panel for my main lines
as mentioned by Lemonhawk .
It works fine but is awkward and it is so easy to flip the switch then
forget to push the button.

Had I known of them when I built my panels, I would use the
Stapleton 751D turnout motor switch. In includes a CDU and 
operates either twin coil or Stall motor type machines. It also
has terminals for panel and track side signals.

Don


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

everyone seems to lean toward capacitive discharge so would one peco pl35 work for 6 atlas turnouts in conjunction with 6 momentary pushbuttons ? or circutron 800-5303 ?


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

bristolman2012 said:


> everyone seems to lean toward capacitive discharge so would one peco pl35 work for 6 atlas turnouts in conjunction with 6 momentary pushbuttons ? or circutron 800-5303 ?


Yes it would. I have one for multiple machines. I run the feed wire from the power supply to the CDU then to a terminal switch strip then to the switches. If there is a bad machine I can disconnect that switch from the terminal strip temporarily and keep running till I have time to fix it.

The CDU will also store enough power to switch several at once. For example if you have a crossover you can change the points in multiple places with one movement on the control panel.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

As stated by TKruger, one CDU will power all of the twin coil
turnouts on your layout.

You do need 2 push buttons on your panel for each turnout though.

Don


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

tkruger said:


> Yes it would. I have one for multiple machines. I run the feed wire from the power supply to the CDU then to a terminal switch strip then to the switches. If there is a bad machine I can disconnect that switch from the terminal strip temporarily and keep running till I have time to fix it.
> 
> The CDU will also store enough power to switch several at once. For example if you have a crossover you can change the points in multiple places with one movement on the control panel.


could you post drawing as to how you did ? would be appreciated . which cdu did you use ? and parts list .
mike


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

bristolman2012 said:


> could you post drawing as to how you did ? would be appreciated . which cdu did you use ? and parts list .
> mike


I used the one in the link below. There is an in side and an out side on the unit. Ran two wires from the power supply out put to the CDU input. Then the output of the CDU to a terminal strip. Half the strip was jumpered to the + side and the other half to the - side. 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Peco-HO-N-PL35-Capacitor-Discharge-Unit-p/pec-pl35.htm


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

tkruger said:


> I used the one in the link below. There is an in side and an out side on the unit. Ran two wires from the power supply out put to the CDU input. Then the output of the CDU to a terminal strip. Half the strip was jumpered to the + side and the other half to the - side.
> 
> http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Peco-HO-N-PL35-Capacitor-Discharge-Unit-p/pec-pl35.htm


thank you will order that one .
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*751d*

after reading more ,( does it ever end ?) I made a 2 cent decision to go with the 751ds , in that it basically includes everything and its close to cost of cdu with switches . hopefully less wiring and I would get to practice soldering .does anyone have a wiring diagram going to the switch ?
mike


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You usually run a common buss from your turnout power source
to every turnout. Then there is a 'red' wire from the divert
terminal of each turnout and a 'green' wire from the straight
of each turnout.

These wires connect to the corresponding divert and straight terminals of each 751D
in your panel. To make tracing problems easier, it's recommended that
you connect your red and green wires to a multi connection barrier terminal strip.
That also connects to the 751Ds. 
The 751D input is the 'other' side of your turnout power source.

The other terminals on the 751 D can control panel or trackside
signal lights. 

You should get a circuit diagram in the 751 D instructions.

Don


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

DonR said:


> You usually run a common buss from your turnout power source
> to every turnout. Then there is a 'red' wire from the divert
> terminal of each turnout and a 'green' wire from the straight
> of each turnout.
> ...


do you have these and would it be too much to ask for that diagram ? just would like to be somewhat ready for when I get mine .
mike


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## ED-RRR (Jun 4, 2015)

*Ken Stapleton's 751D circuits..*



bristolman2012 said:


> do you have these and would it be too much to ask for that diagram ? just would like to be somewhat ready for when I get mine .
> mike


The 751D and 751K Electronic Turnout Switches --> "Kits"..
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM

Model 751D Operating And Connection Instructions..
http://www.classixaudio.com/pdf/751D.pdf
......


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

ED-RRR said:


> The 751D and 751K Electronic Turnout Switches --> "Kits"..
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM
> 
> Model 751D Operating And Connection Instructions..
> ...


I have that what I'm looking for is this . remember beginner , this type is easy to understand for someone starting out .


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## Mark R. (Jan 26, 2013)

bristolman2012 said:


> I have that what I'm looking for is this . remember beginner , this type is easy to understand for someone starting out .


Better re-check the wiring to your LEDs. The DPDT switch will control the switch machine correctly, but you have no positive lead to the LEDs. 

The red power wire should go to BOTH center terminals of the DPDT switch and the black should go straight to the LEDs, not the switch.

There is, however, a downside to this design .... the DPDT switch changes the color of the LEDs, but the switch machine isn't thrown until the button is pushed. The LEDs aren't guaranteed to be a true indicator if someone throws the switch and forgets to push the button ....

Mark.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

Mark R. said:


> Better re-check the wiring to your LEDs. The DPDT switch will control the switch machine correctly, but you have no positive lead to the LEDs.
> 
> The red power wire should go to BOTH center terminals of the DPDT switch and the black should go straight to the LEDs, not the switch.
> 
> ...


sorry this was just an example what someone had done and they were told wiring diagram wrong . I was just trying to show something easy to understand except using the 751d .


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## ED-RRR (Jun 4, 2015)

*Instructions Given..*

[bristolman2012]

Sorry, but you were totally directed/going into the "Wrong Direction" ..

Why are there (x2) different switches for only (x1) switch track ??
- DPDT switch (x1) for switch track directions <--> (LED's)
- Momentary switch to activate Atlas coil switch..

Also "Not" using a "Capacitor Discharge Unit"..(CDU)..
CDU for you switch machines.
......


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

ED-RRR said:


> [bristolman2012]
> 
> Sorry, but you were totally directed/going into the "Wrong Direction" ..
> 
> ...


please understand this is just showing the type of drawing I'm looking for to wire a 751d switch to atlas twin coil .
mike


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I use the DPDT switch plus normally open push button to
throw my main line Peco twin coil Insulfrogs, with wiring (as corrected)
similar to that shown.

It works fine, the major drawback is that it is awkward to use,
2 motions, and operator error prone...I set the DPDT and the
panel and track side signals show that the turnout has been thrown...
but If, as happens often, I forget to push the button there is
a derail when the loco hits the turnout.

I've said in other posts, I would have gone to the Stapleton 751D
if I had known of them. 

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You can get a PDF file showing the actual 751D wiring instructions.

(my attempt to post a link failed). Just Google Stapleton 751D turnout control switch
and you will see the source for the pdf file.

Don


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## Mark R. (Jan 26, 2013)

I use the same basic idea as well - except I use a SPDT switch to control the power to the turnout, plus a push button to activate it. The difference with mine is that the LEDs are attached to turnout point contacts so the LED matches the turnout's physical position. A fail-safe in case the button isn't pushed.

This set-up is easily paralleled to my dispatcher's panel (in another room). This is basically how a real dispatcher's panel is operated. The route (SPDT switch) is aligned and then activated (push button). Both turnouts and signals are activated in this manner.

Mark.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

DonR said:


> You can get a PDF file showing the actual 751D wiring instructions.
> 
> (my attempt to post a link failed). Just Google Stapleton 751D turnout control switch
> and you will see the source for the pdf file.
> ...


no need I have that drawing . its still greek to me . what I was hoping is that a fellow member is using one (751d and twin coil ) and could post a color coded drawing ie: the one I posted .
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

no one using the 751 cdu ?
mike


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm surprised that no one has yet responded to your plea for a 751 D user.

Since the device is a modified DPDT switch, the wiring to your turnouts
and panel LEDs should be quite straightforward. Almost identical
to the DPDT circuit pictured, except omit the push button.

You would have a tab (or other connector) for the 'green' wire to
the 'straight' terminal on your motor, you would also have a tab
for the 'red' wire to the divert connection of the turnout.
You would run a line from your accessory power source to
the middle tab of the Switch. A 'black' commong from the power
source would go to each turnout.

There would also be a similar circuit to connect the 751 to your
panel and/or track side LEDS. Likely you would need a 470 ohm
or so resistor to limit the LED voltage from the switch. You would
also need a common to the LEDs.

Don


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

my long range goal is to do track drawing with the 751d switches and leds . still want to get track down and run some trains . hopefully by then someone will do color coded drawing for the dummies . (me)
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I have never heard of a 751d until now. According to this link:http://www.classixaudio.com/pdf/751D.pdf I assume it would be wired as follows.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

Bwells said:


> I have never heard of a 751d until now. According to this link:http://www.classixaudio.com/pdf/751D.pdf I assume it would be wired as follows.
> 
> View attachment 150442


thank you , thank you . 
mike


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Hold on, don't thank me yet! 
This 751D is a great switch, completely foolproof and I love the way they used the Mosfets to control the momentary feature required. I have no idea what a Mosfet is but it is the only component in the circuit that would do that according to figure 1 in the link above (Q1-Q2).
I see 4 different scenarios on wiring configuration depending on LED placement and color as well as orientation of the twin coils.
Do you plan on a green LED for the thru route and a red or yellow for the opposite leg? Also, what type of twin coil, Atlas or Peco? 
Give me a bit and I will show you the different considerations I see. I'll draw it up shortly.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Okay, it is show time!
The 751D is a great switch and con be broken down into 3 parts.
1: 12 VDC power supply as well as the commons to the LEDS and the twin coil, this will be the same for all 751D's.
2: LED wiring according to placement on the panel
3: twin coil wiring depending on the orientation of the machine (under table can be mounted either way).
A couple of assumptions seem in order- I assume LEDs would be green for thru traffic and red for sidings/stub however I would use yellow for sidings as it signifies caution, not stop. Also I assume you would want the switch Paddle to be oriented in the direction of travel.

My computer shuts down randomly so I will post this now and be back, don't want to loose what I did.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Okay, back again.
The 751D can be broken down into 3 parts.
1: 12VDC power supply and the commons to the LEDs and twin coil. These will be the same to all 751D's that you have.
2: The LEDs can be positioned according to how you use the turnout. In the attachment you can see that the position of the LED changes according to which "leg" you use and the purpose.
3: The twin coils can be mounted either way if you use undertable type. This wiring is the least to worry about as if it throws wrong, reverse the red and green wires, done deal.








two fingers need a break.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You can use a single LED that has a common lead and the separate lead for green and red.
You get yellow if you power both leads. On my slo-motion switch machines I wired a red/green LED in series so the LED actually shows which way the switch machine is set.


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