# Lionel # 652 Prewar Gondola



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Guys,

I had mentioned in the "Anything New" thread that I picked up a Lionel prewar #652 gondola for $10 at the South Shore Model RR Club tag sale. The paint needs some work, but all of the metal trim bits are intact and OK.

Here's a quick thread tracing this strip / prime / repaint project.

As of this posts, components have been disassembled. Frame, shell, trucks were stripped (Easy Off), buffed with Dremel wire brush, and primed with Krylon Rudy Brown. Wheels, axles, and the hand-brake parts were Dremel wire brushed, too. Latch couplers were dipped in a diluted hydrochloric acid solution for a few minutes to remove surface rust.

(The hand-brakes are held captive in the frame, so I've just taped them off, as shown below, for the paint work.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Looks good so far! Are you sticking with the same colors?


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

I am surprised to see that you left the brake wheels on...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Colors ... pretty much the same. I found an off-the-shelf Krylon yellow that's close to the original prewar yellow. The yellow on the car as-found had definitely darkened with age and grime. I rubbed a section with some denatured alcohol (prior to stripping) to get down to "virgin" paint, and it was much brighter/lighter than the outer grimy yellow.

Brake wheels ... I scratched my head on that one. The vertical shaft is inserted through a small hole in the deck of the frame. On the bottom, the shaft had been crimped, such that it was now wider than the hole in the frame, holding it captive.

In order for me to remove the shaft, I would have had to file down the shaft (in way of the crimp). But I was concerned that doing so would NOT have left enough "meat" on the remaining shaft for me to squeeze in another (new) crimp to hold it back in place.

So ... decision was made to simply tape it off.

Does anyone else have experience with removing / reinstalling these brake shafts ???

Cheers,

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Also ...

I did some spray painting outside today ... black on frame, and yellow on shell. But, the temperature is only about 50-degrees here today (and getting colder), and I really think I'm on the hairy-edge of being able to get a decent finish. The paint is not drying (solvent evaporating) like it did in warmer weather, and I'm running the risk of runs / drips.

As much as I'd like to keep pushing ahead with painting on other projects (the 1681 / 1055E set, for example), I'm fighting the beginnings of a cold New England winter, and may have to put off much of this until next spring.

(I've tried spraying stuff in my basement or garage in the past, but the overspray just gets everywhere ... not good.)

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Also ...
> 
> I did some spray painting outside today ... black on frame, and yellow on shell. But, the temperature is only about 50-degrees here today (and getting colder), and I really think I'm on the hairy-edge of being able to get a decent finish. The paint is not drying (solvent evaporating) like it did in warmer weather, and I'm running the risk of runs / drips.
> 
> ...



You need a little paint booth with a exhaust to the out side.
I have seen plans for building one........somewhere?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

You know, I was thinking about that earlier today! I've seen the pre-made, off the shelf ones ... but am I right in thinking that they're mostly used for people working with small airbrushes, where the amount of paint spray is much smaller and directed in a more focused area? I guess one could always upsize the concept ... basically, a 5-sided box with an internal vent grill and fan, sucking paint mist into some sort of a filter trap.

Hmmm ... you've got me thinking on that one.

Anyone out there ever make something like that?

Cheers,

TJ


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## greyhound (Jan 4, 2009)

Ed,
I do not have any plans for this. If it were me I would
try a couple of cheep shower curtians. If its not 
going to be used to often.

Just a thought, Joe


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You can make a portable one TJ. Use a flex hose to vent to the outside. Yes a filter would be nice. And a good exhaust fan.

Like I said somewhere, I have seen plans for a few different ones.

By the way I got through 10 of the old O gauge magazines and didn't find the info on the engine yet.
Give me a few more lunch breaks next week and I will go through some more.
I know I saw an article on it.

Another 60 hr week in my wallet.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ. I couldn't match your deal in Manchester. They had a boxcar for 30 but I was overbudget. Anyway I still have the 259e. I got a new wire brush to try out. I have to think about painting soon. Everything looks great! I haven't come across a yellow gondola yet.


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

TJ,

You can use a paint booth with rattle cans. I do all the time. I just have to replace my filter more often, thats all.

If you have the space, I highly recommend buying or making a paint booth:thumbsup:


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

TJ,

Here is my set up with my Marx O E-7 going thru a repaint









A really good investment,:thumbsup:

Cheers, Ian


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ian,

Thanks for that. Looks great! Is yours homemade?

I looked in the MicroMark catalog, but the booths there are a fortune. If I were to make one (and judging from the photo of yours), would this be suitable:

Fabricate basic box shape from MDF or similar.

Use one or two nested home-heating-system air filters ... easily and cheaply replaced.

Mount a home bathroom fan (NuTone, for example) to the back, with its standard round duct pipe.

From there, run flexible round duct outside.

Comments? Shoot me down if any of this seems bad or crazy.

Thanks!

TJ


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

TJ,

Bought mine off of eBay. Christmas present from the misses

My first paint booth was homemade and I used a steam hood from a stove. Picked it up a garage sale for a buck. 

It was a little weak, but as long as I kept the screen filter clean, it worked ok

Good luck:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Ian,
> 
> Thanks for that. Looks great! Is yours homemade?
> 
> ...



Get an industrial type fan. 
I don't think a common bathroom fan would last. 
It's got more power too.

Use your imagination and build a cheap one.
As long as it contains the over spray and fumes.
As long as it works.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

Industrial fan ...

Like what? What type of one would have a premade setup to hook up some round exhaust ducting? I'll have to dig around. Your point about flow volume, though, is well made.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> Industrial fan ...
> 
> ...



You can buy a round fan with the flex hose.:thumbsup:










How much was the paint booth you saw?

This one is for both chemicals or paint fumes.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

That looks HUGE! I don't think I'd be able to open the front door, if that thing was sucking air out of the basement!

MicroMark has 15"x20" booth (at 185 cfm) for $300, and 15"x30" (at 370 cfm) booth for $400. Expensive! I suspect one could kludge something together that functioned reasonably well for a lot less than that.

cfm = cubic feet per minute

Here's a relatively cheap in-line fan at 360 cfm:

http://www.nutone.com/product-detail.asp?ProductID=10333

I've gotta think this one through ...

TJ


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

I have this paint booth on my shopping list. Seems to me that I've seen this booth listed for as low as $119.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZFT0&P=ML


Here is another vendor:

http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=HSE420


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sky,

I like it! But is that ducted for external discharge? $119 is much more "in the hunt" that MicroMark's prices.

Thanks!

TJ


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

It comes with a 4" dryer duct adapter. Try ebay and see if you find it at $119.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

If I were you at that price I would get two.:thumbsup:

That was only their 8" fan TJ they got a bigger one.
I went back and checked the price $165.:thumbsdown:

I all ways think going BIG'er is better.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

tjcruiser said:


> Brake wheels ... I scratched my head on that one. The vertical shaft is inserted through a small hole in the deck of the frame. On the bottom, the shaft had been crimped, such that it was now wider than the hole in the frame, holding it captive.


When I dabbled in prewar and had to remove a brake wheel, I simply took some needle-nose pliers to the crimp to flatten it out... However, I never got to the point where I had to reinstall the brake wheel, but I would think that you should be able to crimp it in a different spot?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

They are difficult to reinstall and get solid. You need a rivet method with something on the back side too. Since you are bending a tab you have to get it started first.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi guys,

I finished the restoration of my Lionel #652 prewar gondola. Disassemble, strip, prime, and repaint (Krlyon). Straight forward process, more or less ...

This light-yellow Krlyon paint goes on quite thin (thinner than other Krlyons I've used), so I had to use several light coats to get a decent buildup of color.

I had earlier drilled out the original truck rivets, and have reattached them with #6-32 stainless steel screws, round heads with inset allen sockets, 3/8" long. Lock washers with nylon inserts on the bottom.

I was a bit nervous about untwisting (to remove) and then retwisting (to reinstall) the roundish tabs on the latch couplers ... I was concerned that they might snap off. But, I went very slowly with the bends, and they worked out OK. The hydrochloric acid dip did a nice job to remove all of the surface rust on the couplers.

Per discussion with B&M above, I opted to leave the brake wheels and shafts attached to the frame during the repaint process ... taped off for the spray work, then polished up with Dremel wire brush. Worked out just fine, I think.

So ... a $10 tag sale purchase, plus some elbow grease, and this old gondola has a new lease on life, I think!

Cheers,

TJ


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

That looks great, Tj.:thumbsup: Did you clearcoat the Krylon?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks.

No clearcoat. Just straight gloss Krylon on this and most of my other projects.

I'll add this sidenote ...

In working with Krylon (or Rustoleum), one has to build up some thickness of paint (and primer) to get everything looking nice on the "main" surfaces. But that same paint thickness buildup is gets on the tabs of the tinplate stuff, which makes reassembly a bit tricky. Inevitably, some post-tabbing touchup paintwork is required. But ...

In looking at any ORIGINAL old-school Lionel paint (especially on their old lithographed stuff), I'm totally amazed how Lionel created such a pleasing depth of finish, yet did so with such a very thin layer of paint.

I don't know much about old-school or modern paint processes, but I wonder if they were electro-charging the metal as they sprayed on their paint? How did they get such a durable finish with such thin layers ... especially with their litho stuff?

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

One other point ...

I should add for the record here that the yellow is Krylon "Bright Idea" Indoor/Outdoor spray gloss. Nice color, close match to original Lionel, but this particular Krylon color goes on awfully thin and runny, in my opinion.

Frame and trucks are standard Krylon gloss black. Krylon "Rudy Brown" primer underneath.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It looks great TJ!:thumbsup:

Are you going to weather it?


And the poor old tank car sits there looking at the rest of the train wishing he was nice and new too.

Makes me feel sorry for the little tanker. 
Like the story of the little red tug boat.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Are you going to weather it?


Thanks, Ed!

I have to laugh at some of these crazy HO guys ... "weathering" their cars with grime, rust, gunk, graffiti, and the like. And here I am, spending countless hours REMOVING grime, rust, gunk, and the like. Go figure ...

And as far as our little tanker friend is concerned, even Little Toot had a few dkings and scratches on his bow and bulwarks.

Cheers,

TJ


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