# Lionel 1668E streamliner - Under the hood



## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

My new (old) Lionel 1668E streamline loco arrived yesterday ... ebay find. She's in good shape on the outside, and actually ran around the test track OK. But I figured I'd open her up and give her a proper cleaning / lube. I snapped some pics, in case anybody down the road is ever wondering what these look like inside.

4-Position E-Unit (fwd-neutral-reverse-neutral)
Coil spring mounted brushes
Non-roller pick-up contacts

Not too shabby for a 72-year-old girl!

TJ


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## Boston&Maine

That right there is your standard late pre-war and post-war motor... There are slight variations (pickups, magnetraction, wheels, etc), but the idea is the same...


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## tjcruiser

B&M,

You're right ... after reading your note, I just flipped through Greenberg's Repair Manual. The engines for the post-war 221, 224, 2026 look nearly identical to this one. I'm quite pleased to learn that, as I'm still in the hunt for a 221. If I find one, I'll enjoy that fact that it and the 1668 share essentially the same engine ... makes service, future repairs, etc. easy.

Is there any consolidated source of manuals, exploded parts diagrams, etc. for Lionel PRE-war stuff (like Greenberg's offers for post-war stuff)? Or was there not the same such level of documentation back then?

Thanks!
TJ


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## Big Ed

Nice looking Loco. All complete too with the headlight lens and marker lights and rails. Nice find.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Big Ed ... I think she's a thumbs-up, too! Much appreciated!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks, Big Ed ... I think she's a thumbs-up, too! Much appreciated!
> 
> TJ


My suggestion would be to leave it as is and just polish it up.

Leave the small scrapes and nicks as is. 

It just adds to the old gals charm.:thumbsup:

Does it run good?


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## T-Man

tjcruiser said:


> B&M,
> 
> Is there any consolidated source of manuals, exploded parts diagrams, etc. for Lionel PRE-war stuff (like Greenberg's offers for post-war stuff)? Or was there not the same such level of documentation back then?
> 
> Thanks!
> TJ


There is the Olsen Library. You can view but not print.

Nice engine.:thumbsup:


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## Stillakid

TJ, "Excellent!"
She's a real nice looking engine & tender. You're gonna have lots of fun with her and she'll look great on your set-up

I've got a Marx that's as close as I'll get to that style. I'd like to be able to "Spruce" her up, but I'm afraid of snapping all the tabs that hold her together

I've had her since I was a kid and she was part of the goodies I got from a box that was at my mothers house(garages in Florida are hell on metal toys!)

Regards,
Jim


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## tjcruiser

A few responses ...

Big Ed -- Yeah, I've cleaned her up ... inside (cleaned the armature, brushes, added lube, etc.), and gave the outside a very careful wipedown. But aside from that, I'm going to leave her completely original ... nicks, scratches (though not too many) and all. She runs GREAT ... smooth, light works, no problems. However ... 

I did pick up a new pair of pick-up shoes today at the MA Greenberg show ... the original ones on there are a bit worn, so I'll go ahead and replace those.

*T-Man -- THANK YOU* for the Olsen's Library link. I'm thrilled to learn of their online pre-war info! You ... ARE ... THE ... MAN!!!

Stillakid -- That's a really nice Marx. All original. A bit battle scarred, but it adds "character"! You said "spruce" her up, maybe ... would you ever consider a black repaint, but leave the red/grey sideboard intact/original? Maybe you could tackle something like that without having to remove the body.

Thanks guys!!!

TJ


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## T-Man

If both of you are getting int prewar get some practice on the Marx for the tabs. Just don't bend them all the way. Use a little pressure and spring action. It takes a little practice and a little judgement.


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## Stillakid

T-Man, "Practice?" Are you saying that YOU, had difficulties with some, "little ole tabs?" LOL!

TJ, on the one hand, after stripping & painting my 1110 and 3-2026's(and for my first time, look great!), I know I could do a decent job. But, I really enjoy watching that, "Old Girl", tear up the track with her battle scars from my youth

I do have that extra engine, and was hoping someone had a clue what model Marx it came out of. It doesn't fit what I have, and after all these years, a little cleaning and oil and she flies(and her lamp works!) If I find the right shell, she'd get the paint job. and if that turns out okay, maybe then, I'll begin, "Practicing" for my entry into "Tin"

T-Man, I do think that the larger, pre-war tin would be beautiful around a Christmas Tree. We have a large family and with 8 grandchildren, they'd enjoy seeing and playing with something more their size After all, not all, "Toys" are for us "Big Kids!"


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## T-Man

Tabs, are fun, the Marx accessories, I always look inside. That Marx engine is an 0-4-0 Marx Marlines engine. Don't know too much.50's Thor has some info for reading.

Found a picture on ebay.


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> T-Man, "Practice?" Are you saying that YOU, had difficulties with some, "little ole tabs?" LOL!
> 
> TJ, on the one hand, after stripping & painting my 1110 and 3-2026's(and for my first time, look great!), I know I could do a decent job. But, I really enjoy watching that, "Old Girl", tear up the track with her battle scars from my youth
> 
> I do have that extra engine, and was hoping someone had a clue what model Marx it came out of. It doesn't fit what I have, and after all these years, a little cleaning and oil and she flies(and her lamp works!) If I find the right shell, she'd get the paint job. and if that turns out okay, maybe then, I'll begin, "Practicing" for my entry into "Tin"
> 
> T-Man, I do think that the larger, pre-war tin would be beautiful around a Christmas Tree. We have a large family and with 8 grandchildren, they'd enjoy seeing and playing with something more their size After all, not all, "Toys" are for us "Big Kids!"


Even though it would look good to you tearing down the track with the battle scars.
The rust I see in the picture will continue to eat the engine unless it's treated somehow.

It might take a while but eventually it will get worst.


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## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

Re: Tin tabs, and the risk of accidentally breaking them off ... 

I had a nice chat with an old-timer at the Greenberg's show yesterday. We were talking about tin whistle tenders, and how they often need service ... which requires bending open the frame tabs. He offered this tip: "If the frame has four tabs, bend them as needed to remove the cab. After servicing, you might consider bending only 2 (of the 4) tabs back into alignment to hold the cab back on ... especially if the car will get light use. That way, you have 2 tabs unfatigued and 'in reserves' for future service."

Re: Rust ...

Big Ed ... what's your best tip / method for treating/stopping rust? (I'll be you / others have discussed this in a prior thread ... I'll do some searching.)

Dare I say it, but I've used diluted muriatic acid (HCl) to remove surface rust on other (non train) projects. Works like a charm, but it's dangerous, metal-eating-hungry stuff. Have you guys fiddled with this (again, heavily diluted) at all on trains?

Scotchbrite pad rubdown, Rustoleum primer, etc. all come to mind, too.

And what do you do with cars whose paint finish is generally good, but with the smallest hints of rust pitting here and there. Seems like a full strip-job would be overkill. Do you ever apply any sort of a wax to the surface to try to block oxygen from exacerbating the rust??? (Though maybe rust is an inside-out thing ... maybe leave the outside finish intact, and prime the inside???)

Niave comments / questions here on my part ... Clue me in if you happen to have a few moments.

Many thanks, guys!

TJ


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## T-Man

For tinplate, look at the 6111 flat cars, for ease go to my how to in the signature. Normally scotch brite and acrylic non wax. Waiting on better half before departing for Wilmington.


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## mrjcoz

TJ ,thanks for the info.mine runs real well but im sure it needs a cleaning also.i was thinking repaint but may just polish up.mine a little more scratched but no bare metal showing.waiting for 2 610 and a 611 passenger cars i got on ebay.i love this prewar stuff.they sound different and are so much easier to work on.thanks again this why i joined here


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## tjcruiser

MrJ,

Happy to hear it. Enjoy the passenger cars, too. (No pass cars on my end, yet ...  )

Cheers,

TJ


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## servoguy

Here is a hint to avoid breaking off tabs. Don't bend the tabs over, give them a slight twist, and don't twist any more than absolutely necessary to hold the car or tender together. Been doing this since I was a kid.

BB


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Bruce.

Interesting you say that. On my work, I've noticed that most original Lionel tabs are bent 90 degrees, with one exception: On 258 and 259 prewar tinplate locos, the tabs used to attach the two-sectioned pieces of boiler shell together were twisted, just like you suggest.

One other issue on tabs that I've learned through trial-and-error ...

I prepaint all of my tinplate components before reassembly. Inevitably, though, I need to sand down the thickness of the paint on the tabs before reassembly, such that the tab will fit through its corresponding slot. And, when one bends the tab over, the remaining paint will often chip off. I can touch up the paint with a tiny brush, of course, but I had wondered about any bare metal exposed on the underside of the bent-over tab, and its potential for rust. Rust is bad!!! After a bit of thinking, here's what I do ...

I cut a small piece of wax paper, and put a tiny dab of paint on the wax paper close to the edge. Then, I carefully slide the paper and dab of paint underneath the bent-over tab, transferring the paint to the underside of the tab, and then promptly slide the paper back out. I can usually do this with minimal "overflow" or mess. It seals the metal on the tab nicely, I hope.

TJ


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## jseville

tjcruiser said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My new (old) Lionel 1668E streamline loco arrived yesterday ... ebay find. She's in good shape on the outside, and actually ran around the test track OK. But I figured I'd open her up and give her a proper cleaning / lube. I snapped some pics, in case anybody down the road is ever wondering what these look like inside.
> 
> 4-Position E-Unit (fwd-neutral-reverse-neutral)
> Coil spring mounted brushes
> Non-roller pick-up contacts
> 
> Not too shabby for a 72-year-old girl!
> 
> TJ


I just found this forum and it looks like I'm 11 years too late, but it's worth a try. Every Christmas I set up my dad's 1668-E train around the Christmas tree. This year I'm hearing an unusual grinding sound when I run the train. I'm having a hard time finding service or repair instructions on the Internet. Is this a simple lubrication exercise or do I have a more serious problem? ANY help and direction would be appreciated. Even pointing me to a service manual for the 1668-E would be a huge help. Thanks!


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## Millstonemike

Grinding isn't a good sound. But a good cleaning and lube would warranted. You should also clean the motor.


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## Big Ed

jseville said:


> I just found this forum and it looks like I'm 11 years too late, but it's worth a try. Every Christmas I set up my dad's 1668-E train around the Christmas tree. This year I'm hearing an unusual grinding sound when I run the train. I'm having a hard time finding service or repair instructions on the Internet. Is this a simple lubrication exercise or do I have a more serious problem? ANY help and direction would be appreciated. Even pointing me to a service manual for the 1668-E would be a huge help. Thanks!


Try a little oil, I stress a little.
Turn it upside down an oil the gears, unless you did this already.
A few drops of your cars motor oil would work, then run it to see if it gets better.
Do you have any train oil?
Motor oil works won't hurt anything.


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## T-Man

It is starving for some oil. The motor, gears, and axle need it. If it is persistent it is probably an axle. Also oil the little rollers in the center. This is a pdf to the 1956 user manual that may help.


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## Millstonemike

jseville said:


> I just found this forum and it looks like I'm 11 years too late, but it's worth a try. Every Christmas I set up my dad's 1668-E train around the Christmas tree. This year I'm hearing an unusual grinding sound when I run the train. I'm having a hard time finding service or repair instructions on the Internet. Is this a simple lubrication exercise or do I have a more serious problem? ANY help and direction would be appreciated. Even pointing me to a service manual for the 1668-E would be a huge help. Thanks!


Try turning the wheels by hand to see if you can isolate the grinding noise. This loco is 80+ years old. Your brushes maybe worn away and the brush spring is rubbing on the armature face. That requires immediate attention. There's several experts here with the same loco. If you're the least bit handy, they can "talk you down" to a successful repair. Parts are available from multiple sources online.

I've attached the the Original Lionel service manual for the 1688E, though, it won't help you much it but it does list part numbers.


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## Big Ed

I wonder what happened to TJ's pictures in post #1?


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## Millstonemike

Big Ed said:


> I wonder what happened to TJ's pictures in post #1?


What was that photo storing service that eventually starting charging a fee? Many people didn't pony up and links to stored photos didn't work or had the service's logo plastered across them. When the MTF s/w was upgraded, perhaps links to those external photos didn't work and the post lost it's pic(s).

Just a guess. Could be several reasons.


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## Big Ed

Millstonemike said:


> What was that photo storing service that eventually starting charging a fee? Many people didn't pony up and links to stored photos didn't work or had the service's logo plastered across them. When the MTF s/w was upgraded, perhaps links to those external photos didn't work and the post lost it's pic(s).
> 
> Just a guess. Could be several reasons.


I don't think he used one, just transferred to the computer like I do.
T man went thru that mess with Photobucket years ago.
A lot others did too.


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## rrman987

If no one post here email me (address should be in my profile) and I probably have it or similar that I can scan and send to you. Post picture to make sure I am looking at apples to apples Most of these engines are similar under the hood so generally the lubrication and oiling points are about same. The grinding could be the driving gear is worn or motor worm gear (if used here) out of position (educated guess from working on my stuff).


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## T-Man

I don't think TJ used photobucket. Some of mine pictures are still here with photobucket links.


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## tjcruiser

Hi gang! Back from the far corners of the galaxy! All good on my end. Just busy with work, kids, life. It is fun to think about trains, though ... and dream when I'll have more time to tinker some day!

I don't know why my photo(s) have disappeared. I never did use Photobucket. I know that several of T-mans pics got chopped a while back, but I thought that was a Photobucket issue.

If anyone needs any of my old photos for reference (this project, or any other one), please shout out. All pics are safe and sound on my computer.

As to grinding noises on the 1668, you guys covered most of the bases. It's likely starved for oil. A few drops of simple auto motor oil will help. Do rotate the wheels by hand, and check the visible gear teeth to see if there's any debris stuck within a gear tooth. Oil (just a drop) each of the loco wheel axles where they pass through the bushings. A drop of oil to the armature shaft. A few drops to the gears. If you're ambitious, you can remove the motor and then brushplate cover, and clean the armature face. But I'd try just the drops of oil as noted, and let her run on the track a bit.

Warm Christmas and New Year's wishes to all!

TJ


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## Charlietrain

tjcruiser said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My new (old) Lionel 1668E streamline loco arrived yesterday ... ebay find. She's in good shape on the outside, and actually ran around the test track OK. But I figured I'd open her up and give her a proper cleaning / lube. I snapped some pics, in case anybody down the road is ever wondering what these look like inside.
> 
> 4-Position E-Unit (fwd-neutral-reverse-neutral)
> Coil spring mounted brushes
> Non-roller pick-up contacts
> 
> Not too shabby for a 72-year-old girl!
> 
> TJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to see them, I got 1 running but cannot seem to where to solder the wire it runs great. But
> 2 attempts and it would not run.
> I'm 71 and colorblind.


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## T-Man

Just trace the wires out.


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