# Overwhelmed with track selection



## ModelTrain747

Hey guys, the wife thought it would be a good idea to get into this hobby for my 2 boys so we have a garden at Christmas time. I bought an Athearns Iron Horse and I'm a bit underwhelmed for the price I paid. The train won't completely make the circle and I assume it is because of track connectivity. It came with Nickel Silver EZ Track and I want to replace it and add additional tracks for our first Christmas layout. It's just been so overwhelming with so many different types of tracks and angles and layouts.

I've seen recommendations for Peco and Atlas tracks but when I look at Peco I see so many different types, small radius, large radius, etc...

My train is HO, can someone provide a link to a decent track that will stay connected and not have connectivity issues so we can start to build our first model train set?

Thanks!

Tim


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## traction fan

*Track types*



ModelTrain747 said:


> Hey guys, the wife thought it would be a good idea to get into this hobby for my 2 boys so we have a garden at Christmas time. I bought an Athearns Iron Horse and I'm a bit underwhelmed for the price I paid. The train won't completely make the circle and I assume it is because of track connectivity. It came with Nickel Silver EZ Track and I want to replace it and add additional tracks for our first Christmas layout. It's just been so overwhelming with so many different types of tracks and angles and layouts.
> 
> I've seen recommendations for Peco and Atlas tracks but when I look at Peco I see so many different types, small radius, large radius, etc...
> 
> My train is HO, can someone provide a link to a decent track that will stay connected and not have connectivity issues so we can start to build our first model train set?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tim


 Tim;

What kind of track would work best for you depends on whether you plan to have a temporary setup under the tree, with only track, no baseboard under it; or a more permanent arrangement with the track fastened down to some sort of base. I recommend the later option because dust from floors, and especially fibers from carpet can get into the locomotive and clog things up. If you want to set up directly on the floor, then I would use a "roadbed track" with the rigid plastic roadbed attached under the actual track. "EZ track" is Bachman's version. A better quality roadbed track is Kato "Unitrack." Even using roadbed track, I'd recommend putting a clean white bed sheet under everything to act as a dust barrier, and "snow."
On the other hand, If you are willing to use a base, you can use plywood, or extruded insulation foam board, for that base. The foam is lightweight, rigid, and strong enough to support the track/train. It also allows you to dig stream beds and other scenery below track level. It's easy to cut, carve, and sand, to shape. However, it's also very messy when being shaped, so do the work in a shop, and have a shop vac handy. The foam can be painted a brown dirt color of latex house paint, and sprinkled with scenery material dirt, and grass. Model trees can be "planted" by pushing them into the foam. 
If the layout is to be permanent, then you can glue track down to either wood, or foam, with dabs of latex caulk near both sides of each track joint. This will keep even sectional, non-roadbed, track together, and in one place. Track rail joints can also be soldered together. This provides perfect electrical contact between pieces. Atlas makes nickle/silver sectional track in several curvatures and straight sections. Make sure to get a re-railer section of track. (top photo) It makes it easy to get the wheels on the rails, and persuades errant wheels to go back on the rails. Even more convenient for getting cars on the track initially, is one of the ramps shown in the center photo. You just roll the car down the ramp and onto the rails. For a more extensive explanation of track types, and many other, train topics that sometimes overwhelm people in your situation, click on the link below, and read my article, "Where do I start." ( at the very bottom of this page, below the photos.) If you, and your sons, decide to build a permanent model railroad, then I recommend ordering the book "Introduction to Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It is available at https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books You can look at all the track, and trains, you want at www.walthers.com 

good luck, and have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:



















View attachment Where do I start (revised version).pdf


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## ModelTrain747

Thank you for the very helpful information. The track will be on a table and not around the tree so I will look at the foam board method. I like the idea of shaping it, painting it, etc.

Tim


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## Gramps

I have heard many complaints about Bachmann Steel EZ track which has black roadbed but not many about the Nickel Silver with the gray roadbed. Having said that I used Kato Unitrack and so far it has been problem free.


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## DonR

If you expect to seriously enter the hobby and plan on
a larger layout you would do well to avoid all of the
rails on base systems. They limit you to using track
accessories such as turnouts, crossings and the like to
their own products. They also limit you to the curve
radius they offer. They are not easily connectable to
products of other makers.

Flex track is used by most of us who have larger layouts.
It comes as 3 foot sections that you can cut to fit...it also
bends to match your layout design. It is fully compatible
with track accessories made by various companies.

There are two major rail codes...83 which is favored
by those who want a look closer to prototype scale
but the most used is code 100. The difference is
rail height above the ties.

Atlas is one of the major makers of Flex track. But
their turnouts are less favored. Many of us recommend
Peco and Shinahara turnouts.

Don


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## mesenteria

ModelTrain747 said:


> Hey guys, the wife thought it would be a good idea to get into this hobby for my 2 boys so we have a garden at Christmas time. I bought an Athearns Iron Horse and I'm a bit underwhelmed for the price I paid. The train won't completely make the circle and I assume it is because of track connectivity. It came with Nickel Silver EZ Track and I want to replace it and add additional tracks for our first Christmas layout. It's just been so overwhelming with so many different types of tracks and angles and layouts.
> 
> I've seen recommendations for Peco and Atlas tracks but when I look at Peco I see so many different types, small radius, large radius, etc...
> 
> My train is HO, can someone provide a link to a decent track that will stay connected and not have connectivity issues so we can start to build our first model train set?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tim


Tim, welcome to the hobby. Depending on what you want out of it, seasonally or all year long, there's got to be some learning, some puzzling, and some problem-solving. Don't fret, you'll figure out how to get around the problems, as we all have.

There's nothing wrong with your tracks. It's electrical pathways that are problematic here, assuming the locomotive is assembled and working properly (take it back to a store or club with an active demo layout and see if it behaves better). Those thin metal joiners are notorious in the hobby for letting their owners down electrically. We all eventually capitulate and admit that their only reliable advantage is to mechanically align the ends of the rails. Thinking they're also going to provide reliable transmission of electrons is a sure way to fill up a dumpster and have to go on life support.

As our colleague has stated earlier, get to know soldering. It's easy, lots of on-line videos if you don't know how to do it. You only need a 35 watt Weller from your local Michael's or whatever, the pencil type tip. Also, from Radio Shack or whatever it's called this week, get the small spool of 1mm thick resin core solder, about the thickness of 22 gauge wire. If you have no idea about soldering, go to FastTracks, or handlaidtrack.com as it used to be, and watch Tim Warris assemble a 'switch', or properly called a turnout, on his videos. It's a piece of cake, if daunting on your first attempt. After your first finger burn, it's all up hill from there. 

The soldered joiners accomplish two things for you:

a. they quadruple the electrical integrity of the joint; and

b. they strengthen the structure of the joint, especially on curved flex track, which you can introduce yourself to later if you get the bug and want to plan and to develop your own layout for other-than-Christmas fun.

You will solve this, you can be patient and methodical, and impress everyone in your family that you're a quick study and handy at fixing things that nobody else in the household dares to attempt.


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## CTValleyRR

Welcome, Tim!

Let me start by saying that I'm not 100% clear on what's going to happen with this layout. Is it going to be permanent, or do you plan to take it down every year after the holidays?

If the latter, then roadbed track is probably the answer. Any brand of nickel silver track should be fine -- do not use steel; it's a maintenance nightmare. The EZ track that came with your set should be fine. You can buy separate pieces to supplement this. If you'd rather replace it, the best roadbed track is Kato's Unitrack. You can buy individual pieces, or a basic set that makes an oval, and expansion packs passing track, sidings, and so on. It's not cheap, though.

If this is going to be a permanent layout, then I'd recommend going with flex track and commercial turnouts. For the trains you currently have, Peco's small radius is fine, as are Walthers turnouts (the # that you may see is simply the distance forward divided by the diverging distance; so a #4 diverges 1" for every 4" forward -- a fairly tight corner). Longer locomotives and cars may have trouble with the tighter diverging angles and tighter curve radii (18" in HO). The issue is that this kind of track performs best when soldered together, as the folks above have explained. In the long run, though, the almost limitless variety of combinations available is very rewarding, as opposed to being limited to the shapes available in sectional / roadbed track.


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## ModelTrain747

Thanks for the replies everyone. I used to be a mil-spec solderer for Allied Signal (way) back in the day so I'm good there. I think what I want to do is get the blue foam board and paint it and glue the track down once I come up with a decent layout design. I will probably store it in the garage after the holiday every year for now. I'm looking on Amazon and I see a 5 pack of Flex Track for $66, not sure if that's a good price or not so still investigating that side of things. Can you use Flex track for curves or do you need dedicated curves for the track? 

Also, I ordered the book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" from Amazon and it will be here tomorrow. I heard that was decent to get going in the hobby. 

EDIT: I just ordered two packs of Atlas 5pk flex track for $25 a pack. I also ordered a 9" straight terminal track and 9" straight track. Everything is Code 100. Hope I ordered the right stuff, lol.

Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving!


Tim


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## CTValleyRR

That book is the bible for planning a layout. A very good read. Keep in mind, though, that it is only a guideline, and if you wnat to do something thst is not so realistic (like run trains in a circle), go right ahead. The only requirement is that you enjoy what you're doing.

Flex track is designed to be either straight or curved, as necessary, to fit the needs of the designer. That's the beauty of it. It can take some practice to lay smooth curves with it, but it's not that hard. There are two types: springy, which wants to return to a straight piece, and stiff, which stays where you put it. Which one is better is a matter of personal preference. The stiff type can be hard to form, but once there, it stays put and doesn't require extensive clamping or pins / nails to hold it while the adhesive cures. I personally prefer it, but many folks hate it, and only experimenting will let you know which you prefer. MicroEngineering is the main manufacturer of the stiff variety, Peco, Atlas and Walthers make the springy version. Walthers trends to be much more expensive (probably what you found on Amazon); the others run closer to $6 for a 3' piece.

Amazon does have model railroading stuff, but I would shop at a dedicated retailer. My favorite is Model Train Stuff / MB Klein (www.modeltrainstuff.com) or Trainworld (www.trainworld.com). There are others. Walthers (www.walthers.com) is a wholesaler, so their prices are always MSRP, but their selection is incredible.

A foamboard is a good idea for weight and portability, but it won't take a lot of banging before the edges get really dinged up. Consider a frame of dimensional lumber. In fact, a series of 2x8 foamboard modules with wooden frames is a good solution for a layout that you want to store.

Any other questions? Keep 'em coming!


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## ModelTrain747

*A foamboard is a good idea for weight and portability, but it won't take a lot of banging before the edges get really dinged up. Consider a frame of dimensional lumber. In fact, a series of 2x8 foamboard modules with wooden frames is a good solution for a layout that you want to store.*

Do you have a link or picture to show me how to build that?

Thanks.

Tim


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## CTValleyRR

ModelTrain747 said:


> *A foamboard is a good idea for weight and portability, but it won't take a lot of banging before the edges get really dinged up. Consider a frame of dimensional lumber. In fact, a series of 2x8 foamboard modules with wooden frames is a good solution for a layout that you want to store.*
> 
> Do you have a link or picture to show me how to build that?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Tim


If you can saw wood, you can make this. You're making a square out of boards. Just cut 1x3 boards to length and use box end joints. You can get fancy with rabbets and dovetails if you want, but there's no need. Screw 3 more boards across the bottom of the frame for flats and you're done. 2" piece of foamboard will be flush with the top of the frame.

If you don't know your way around a woodshop, then this book is great:

https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Railro...UTF8&qid=1511531051&sr=8-1&keywords=Benchwork


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## ModelTrain747

Thank you, I can build that. I appreciate your help!

-Tim


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## mesenteria

We can give you some tips for getting the most out of your 3' lengths of flex track if you wish, or watch some youtube videos of how guys lay it into curves that they need to complete a loop.

Flex track not only flexes in azimuth, but it flexes in elevation, or altitude. The 9" lengths of snap track don't allow you to fashion proper vertical easements because they'll only bend right where you don't want them to...at the joiners. Flex will snake sideways, as you'd hope, but also curve upward and downward from level, which is what you must have for a few inches so that your traction doesn't end up spinning its wheels. 

Flex takes a lot more work than simply shoving two pieces of snap track together, but it is so much more worth the effort and so satisfying. It will soon be second nature to you.


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## ModelTrain747

I've never been one to shy away from someone giving me tips, so fire away! 

I'll also check out youtube.

Tim


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## mesenteria

Okay, flex track comes in a few flavours. Vanilla is Code 100 (metal rails are 100/1000 of an inch in height. It corresponds to much heavier rail, in scale, than was ever used on the prototype. But, it's plentiful, cheap compared to the more exotic types, and more robust for inexpert handling. Many in the hobby a while use it for bullet-proof hidden tracks, inside tunnels, down to hidden staging below the main level of the layout, and so forth. Good for older wheels with 'pizza cutter' style flanges.

Code 100 has holes already drilled into the centers of the ties. You can use track nails, even if temporarily while the caulking dries under the ties, to keep the squiggly track from wanting to straighten out on you. The other codes, to my knowledge, require some drilling from below. At least, the Atlas Code 83 does, the only other rail with which I am familiar.

Code 83 is more realistic in size, relating closely to 140 pound rail/yard. Code 100 is close to 165 pounds per yard, a weight nobody has ever used. The mighty Pennsy years ago used 155 pound rail. Many long-time modelers resort to Code 70 rail because it is much closer to the 115-130 pound rails in common use on heavily trafficked mains with large tonnages. You can even get Code 50 if you have a hankering, but you'll need prototypical scale wheels with very slim flanges. Very tough to keep the finer stuff on the rails because tolerances for dips and humps and mis-aligned joints is much less than even Code 70.

Here is one video to help:






He seems to solder thicker wire to the bottoms of the rails than I would use, but also he appears to not mind soldering the feeders to the outside, or visible side, of the rails. I do mine between the two rails for the rail closest to the viewer and on the opposite side of the far rail so that it, too, is hidden from view.


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## traction fan

*Lots of tips track, and other things*



ModelTrain747 said:


> I've never been one to shy away from someone giving me tips, so fire away!
> 
> I'll also check out youtube.
> 
> Tim


ModelTrain747;

Here is some beginner's info on multiple model railroad subjects, including track types. 


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


Have fun: 
Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

Sorry about the double posting of the "Where do I start" file. When I realized my mistake, I tried to delete this one, but was unable to do so.


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## ModelTrain747

Here is what I have so far. I have about 40 feet of Flex Track in a tube and need to get some Peco Turnouts but have to read up on them because I'm not sure if they are manual or electric. Also need to figure out how to glue this grass down. It's not perfect but I don't think you'll be able to notice when the grass is down. Thanks again for the help!


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## MtRR75

mesenteria said:


> There's nothing wrong with your tracks. It's electrical pathways that are problematic here, assuming the locomotive is assembled and working properly (take it back to a store or club with an active demo layout and see if it behaves better).


Good advice. But your problem may not be the electrical pathways (rail joiners). I use Bachmann Easy Track for an around-the-tree track that I put up every year. I found that my problems were related to slight mis-alignments of the rails at the junctions -- mostly vertical mis-alignments, but sometimes the inside edges where the wheels run were also misaligned.

I realize that the OP appears to be heading away from Easy Track, but for those who might want to make Easy Track work for a temporary layout, here's how I solved the problem.

I filed all of the junctions smooth -- both the tops and the insides of the rails. Problem solved.

When I disassembled the track, at each junction, I numbered the underside of both tracks with the same number with a Sharpy. Now when I rebuild the layout each year, I attach the matching ends together. No more filing needed.


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## CTValleyRR

ModelTrain747 -- you're definitely heading in the right direction.

To answer your unanswered question: Quality turnouts all come unpowered. You can either leave them that way, add manual throws, or motorize them, using twin coil solenoid machines, slow motion motors, or RC servos. The Pecos have a spring in them to hold the points against the rails, so you can just flip them over with your finger, a pencil, skewer, what have you. To my knowledge, they are the only brand that does this.

Personally, I use RC servo motors fastened to the underside of the layout with double-sided foam tape.


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## DonR

In addition to the good information about Peco
turnouts from CTvalley, you'll want to decide
whether to use Peco Insulfrog or Peco Electrofrog
models.

If you have all wheel powered locos and no small 
4 wheel locos you would find the Peco Insulfrog to
be the easiest to use. They are power routing. That
means the spur is depowered when points are set
to straight. If you want all tracks powered all of the
time simply solder a track drop from both frog rails.

Peco Electrofrogs are used when you have small
locos or those that lack all wheel power pickup. Their
frogs are metal and conduct power. You will, however,
have to use an insulated joiner in both frog rails to
avoid short circuits.

Don


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## mesenteria

This is just my personal preference, so take it for its value to you: I find that, where possible, I operate turnouts by hand. You can buy a bag of kabob bamboo skewers at your grocers. They offer an easy and effective way to throw points on your turnouts, not least by extending your reach, and they are also very good at uncoupling your rolling stock. You insert the kabob's point between the cars, vertically, and place the pointed tip into the coupler's. Spin it with a half-twist (this takes practice...your first one or two attempts may just derail the cars). You should find the couplers disengaged. If not, try spinning the other direction. Helps to keep the one car close to the other, not with the couplers stretched out tight.

The switch motors come in two basic flavours. Some snap or clack loudly with a solenoid, while others have silent and slow-moving mechanisms that move the points somewhat more slowly, just like they do in real life. Note that the Peco variety of turnouts, with their 'over-center' springs for the points, are best de-sprung if you intend to use either motor....but it's not strictly necessary.


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## mesenteria

ModelTrain747 said:


> ... Also need to figure out how to flue this grass down. It's not perfect but I don't think you'll be able to notice when the grass is down. Thanks again for the help!


The surface needn't be perfectly flat, but it really helps a lot, especially for newbies. You'll learn by trial and error how to overcome various defects in the tracks, but changes in elevation can be avoided on rough surfaces by two methods...shimming, say with cardstock or cereal box cardboard pieces slid underneath the obvious gaps, or use flex track and ballast with real sand or ground grout grit, or scale ballast from Arizona Rock & Mineral. The prototype roads use track lifters and dynamic ballast adjusters to lift the entire tracks, rail and ties, and to shake the ballast so that it settles well and supports the ties and rails where the device is holding them, in alignment with the rails they've just adjusted. You can do something like that by lifting your rails a bit and encouraging some ballast grains to slip in below the ties to keep the rails in vertical alignment. Once you glue the ballast, it all works the same way, and you won't have undulating tracks, even if your roadbed undulates a bit.

As for this mat you have, I would spread quite a few wavy beads, parallel and set about 3" apart, lengthwise across the entire surface of the ply. Then, enlisting the help of someone if need be, align the edges of the mat with the plywood sheet and roll it out. Then roll it flat with your wife's favourite rolling pin while she expresses profound disappointment in your choice of tool. 

One last tip: if you're a somewhat impulsive or impatient person, you had best take some deep breaths often, ask yourself what you're doing, why, whether it's in the right sequence of layout construction, and then remind yourself to review instructions, tips, any videos you watched on the task, and then to slow down and work methodically. Except for CA or contact cements, almost everything else about the hobby can be undone in a matter of seconds and then reattempted with little waste of materials. Ponder a bit, take stock sometimes, and enjoy the experience.


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## CTValleyRR

mesenteria said:


> This is just my personal preference, so take it for its value to you: I find that, where possible, I operate turnouts by hand. You can buy a bag of kabob bamboo skewers at your grocers. They offer an easy and effective way to throw points on your turnouts, not least by extending your reach, and they are also very good at uncoupling your rolling stock. You insert the kabob's point between the cars, vertically, and place the pointed tip into the coupler's. Spin it with a half-twist (this takes practice...your first one or two attempts may just derail the cars). You should find the couplers disengaged. If not, try spinning the other direction. Helps to keep the one car close to the other, not with the couplers stretched out tight.


The basic kebob skewer can be greatly improved by the addition of a handle. Cut your skewer to the desired length, then cut a 3-4" (personal preference) length of 3/8" dowel, drill a 1/2" deep hole in the center of one end, and insert your skewer with a small dollop of wood glue. You can even paint them if you desire.

I have 8 of these that I use for uncoupling.


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## ModelTrain747

DonR said:


> In addition to the good information about Peco
> turnouts from CTvalley, you'll want to decide
> whether to use Peco Insulfrog or Peco Electrofrog
> models.
> 
> If you have all wheel powered locos and no small
> 4 wheel locos you would find the Peco Insulfrog to
> be the easiest to use. They are power routing. That
> means the spur is depowered when points are set
> to straight. If you want all tracks powered all of the
> time simply solder a track drop from both frog rails.
> 
> Peco Electrofrogs are used when you have small
> locos or those that lack all wheel power pickup. Their
> frogs are metal and conduct power. You will, however,
> have to use an insulated joiner in both frog rails to
> avoid short circuits.
> 
> Don


Don, how do I know if my loco is all wheel powered? It's the Athearn's Iron Horse and all wheels on it appear to look the same. So I assume its all wheel powered. 

Thanks!

Tim


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## ModelTrain747

One step closer thanks to you guys! The foamboard table is on the dining room table right now. I'll probably pull it and hang it in the garage after the holiday every year. I ordered a bunch more tracks and rail joiners that I didn't realize I would need today.


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## DonR

Tim

The iron horse is a current model loco so you
can pretty well be assured that it has all wheel
power pickup. It should run smoothly thru
Peco Insulfrog turnouts.

However, you can test for all wheel pickup easily.

Connect your powerpack and set the speed control
to mid point. Use a pair of wires connected to
the Track terminals. 

Secure the loco UPSIDE DOWN.
Touch one wire to the RIGHT front loco wheel.
At the same time touch the other wire to
the LEFT front wheel. The loco should run.
It should run when you touch every LEFT
wheel.

You can then test the Right wheels. 
Touch the front LEFT WHEEL with one wire
and touch the 2nd RIGHT wheel, and each of
the other Right wheels with the other. The loco should run
with each instance.

If it does, you have proven all wheel power pickup.

Don


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## ModelTrain747

Just tested and I have all wheel, thanks Don!

T


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## santafealltheway

ModelTrain747 said:


> One step closer thanks to you guys! The foamboard table is on the dining room table right now. I'll probably pull it and hang it in the garage after the holiday every year. I ordered a bunch more tracks and rail joiners that I didn't realize I would need today.


Oooh! THings are [email protected]!

This is my favorite stage.

The big green expanse of emptiness.

Now you gotta fill it!

You may find these tools useful - https://www.micromark.com/Deluxe-HO-Gauge-Track-Laying-Set


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## mesenteria

This is a fun and exciting stage where you learn how to play with flex track AND track arrangements. Use track nails, the tiny 22 gauge black wire nails, and press them carefully into the holes mid-tie on most flex track (the latest batch of Atlas Code 83 requires you to invert the tracks and find blind holes started on the few ties, but not pressed cleanly through. Use a small drill bit to carefully ream them out fully.). You can pull them out and rearrange the flex curves as you like.

Later, once you settle on a permanent arrangement, and only if you would like to fix the tracks in place, you can use a thinly spread layer of cheap acrylic latex caulking (DAP Alex Plus with Silcone is good, but get the clear stuff...goes on white, but turns light clear yellowish).


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## mesenteria

We can talk you through laying nice even curves with flex track. Remember, the metal joiners are really weak spots. Put two of them opposite each other on a curve tighter than about 35 inches of radius and you'll see a kink wanting to develop there, not a continuous curve. The problem is that the last three inches of rails on either side of the joints don't really curve. They'll strongly want to straighten, as you'll find out. Midships on those three foot lengths, your leverage makes them bend very nicely. At the ends, they'll get vicious.


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## DonR

Taking Messenteria's suggestion a step farther,
you can avoid kinks using flex track on curves
by staggering the joint...for example leave the
right rail about 2 inches or so longer than
the left rail...do a mirror image of that with 
the flex you will attach...save the ties to be slipped
over the rails to hold gauge...

Avoid starting a curve at a joint...let the
flex transition from straight to curve.

Another suggestion is to solder the curve joints.

Don


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## CTValleyRR

Or you can use MicroEngineering flex track. Once you bend it, it stays that way.


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## mesenteria

Just don't get the pre-weathered tracks from ME. The paint makes it all but impossible to get the sliding rail to move through the spikehead details.


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## ModelTrain747

I've already got the Atlas flex track and more on order so I'm going to go with that for now. I also ordered some curved pieces the other day to see if thats easier than bending the flex track. I need to read up on clipping the flex track when you bend it. Oh and I also bought ballast, a track cleaner, glue and a ramp to get the trains on the track. 

Just for testing I joined 4 pieces of straight 9" track pieces and put my locomotive on it. When I turned the power on it seemed to not have great connectivity. I had to press on the wires at the track connector and nudge the train to make it move. Could this be because everything isn't soldered yet? I have a 30 day return policy with Amazon so want to make sure the controller or train aren't defective before I lose that return window.

Also, I decided to put some trim around the edge of the table to protect the grass mat edges when I store the table. Here's an updated picture.


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## ModelTrain747

One more question, do you think I should do the ballasts directly on the green mat or would it be better to put the track on corkboard? If I do the track directly on the grass mat/foam board, will the rail pins stick good enough into the foam base for me to glue the track down?

Thanks.

Tim


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## mesenteria

ModelTrain747 said:


> I've already got the Atlas flex track and more on order so I'm going to go with that for now. I also ordered some curved pieces the other day to see if thats easier than bending the flex track. I need to read up on clipping the flex track when you bend it. Oh and I also bought ballast, a track cleaner, glue and a ramp to get the trains on the track.
> 
> Just for testing I joined 4 pieces of straight 9" track pieces and put my locomotive on it. When I turned the power on it seemed to not have great connectivity. I had to press on the wires at the track connector and nudge the train to make it move. Could this be because everything isn't soldered yet? I have a 30 day return policy with Amazon so want to make sure the controller or train aren't defective before I lose that return window.
> 
> Also, I decided to put some trim around the edge of the table to protect the grass mat edges when I store the table. Here's an updated picture.


If the train moves with a nudge, it's barely getting enough voltage to the motor, but it ain't broke.

If DC, you need to raise the voltage to get the locomotive to move, and then to move faster. You rotate the dial. Or, if it's DCC, you must acquire the address of the locomotive, "03" if the decoder is newly reset at the factory just prior to packaging the unit, and then dial up speed steps until it moves at the speed you want. Dial them back down to stop, or hit the 'brake' function button (F7...?)

I think we explained that one should only ever 100% rely on the joiners for mechanical alignment of the rail ends. They often/usually also with connectivity between the pieces of track. Often, they do not. I would NOT solder EZ-Track pieces unless they were on 5/8" G1S plywood properly supported by joists and framing. I'd soon want to swap out the EZ-Track for flex. Even flex won't work well unless you solder most of the joints. Soldering clears up 90% of all connectivity problems at the joints, and soldering feeders to the web of the rails at places clears up almost all the rest.


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## mesenteria

ModelTrain747 said:


> One more question, do you think I should do the ballasts directly on the green mat or would it be better to put the track on corkboard? If I do the track directly on the grass mat/foam board, will the rail pins stick good enough into the foam base for me to glue the track down?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Tim


Fiddle a bit. Yes, I would lay some cork or Woodland Scenics foam roadbed for the scale. But don't be doing any gluing just yet. PUUUHHHLEEEESSSEE!! Play around with different track arrangements. Learn about them curves and how to stagger the joints. I can print out a how-to if you wish.

If you glue now, how will you get the cork up in two weeks when you have had a belly full of that first stab at a track arrangement? You'll have to rip up the mat as well. So, yes, lay the cork first because when you do settle on a track plan and want to make the tracks look realistic by ballasting, things become permanent in addition to looking realistic once you fix the ballast by gluing it as well with diluted wood glue or PVA glue. Play now, learn how to lay good track and curves, match turnouts to rail ends, play some more, and then start to make things more permanent. Muuuuuucccchh lest costly. And wasteful because you'll damage some things, even slightly, prying them up out of glued surfaces.

You can fix the roadbed into place with track nails or with drywall screws driven into the plywood. Make sure the heads of these fasteners are fully flush with the surface of the cork or you'll possibly get humped joints right over the high ones. Then, lay your flex track. Power it, and enjoy what you have. If it needs revision, you'll know that within a few days at most.

If you glue directly to the foam, you'll need an adhesive which will have to be softened with water prior to attempting to lift the flex when you want to try another arrangement. If you want something strong and permanent, yellow glue is cheap and will work, but it tends to be brittle a bit. Something with more give, but much more damaging to the foam when you try to pry the flex off it, is something like construction adhesive. PL300 is a good one. Or, DAP Alex Plus acrylic caulk spread paper thin over your centerline drawn on your foam, then set the flex in place and weight it with soda cans placed on their sides between the rails. Wait at least six hours, over night if the ambient humidity exceeds 66%


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## CTValleyRR

ModelTrain747 said:


> I've already got the Atlas flex track and more on order so I'm going to go with that for now. I also ordered some curved pieces the other day to see if thats easier than bending the flex track. I need to read up on clipping the flex track when you bend it. Oh and I also bought ballast, a track cleaner, glue and a ramp to get the trains on the track.


Using the sectional curves will work fine. The only issue is more joints, more soldering (or more potential failures if you don't solder).

Alternatively, you can use the curved pieces as templates to bend your flex track to the proper radius.


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## ModelTrain747

mesenteria said:


> Fiddle a bit. Yes, I would lay some cork or Woodland Scenics foam roadbed for the scale. But don't be doing any gluing just yet. PUUUHHHLEEEESSSEE!! Play around with different track arrangements. Learn about them curves and how to stagger the joints. I can print out a how-to if you wish.
> 
> If you glue now, how will you get the cork up in two weeks when you have had a belly full of that first stab at a track arrangement? You'll have to rip up the mat as well. So, yes, lay the cork first because when you do settle on a track plan and want to make the tracks look realistic by ballasting, things become permanent in addition to looking realistic once you fix the ballast by gluing it as well with diluted wood glue or PVA glue. Play now, learn how to lay good track and curves, match turnouts to rail ends, play some more, and then start to make things more permanent. Muuuuuucccchh lest costly. And wasteful because you'll damage some things, even slightly, prying them up out of glued surfaces.
> 
> You can fix the roadbed into place with track nails or with drywall screws driven into the plywood. Make sure the heads of these fasteners are fully flush with the surface of the cork or you'll possibly get humped joints right over the high ones. Then, lay your flex track. Power it, and enjoy what you have. If it needs revision, you'll know that within a few days at most.
> 
> If you glue directly to the foam, you'll need an adhesive which will have to be softened with water prior to attempting to lift the flex when you want to try another arrangement. If you want something strong and permanent, yellow glue is cheap and will work, but it tends to be brittle a bit. Something with more give, but much more damaging to the foam when you try to pry the flex off it, is something like construction adhesive. PL300 is a good one. Or, DAP Alex Plus acrylic caulk spread paper thin over your centerline drawn on your foam, then set the flex in place and weight it with soda cans placed on their sides between the rails. Wait at least six hours, over night if the ambient humidity exceeds 66%


"
You can fix the roadbed into place with track nails or with drywall screws driven into the plywood."

How do I put the roadbed in place if I used blue foam for the layout instead of plywood?

I really appreciate you guys helping me with this. It's much more involved than I ever imagined it would be. 3 weeks before Christmas and I don't even have the tracks together. haha.

-Tim


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## ModelTrain747

CTValleyRR said:


> Using the sectional curves will work fine. The only issue is more joints, more soldering (or more potential failures if you don't solder).
> 
> Alternatively, you can use the curved pieces as templates to bend your flex track to the proper radius.


I don't mind the soldering, but what makes me nervous is clipping the flex track if I make it into a curve. I noticed one piece moves and one doesn't and also the end pieces of track ties were attached on one side. So need to figure that out too. 

Tim


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## mesenteria

The road bed and track can each be fixed temporarily using the tiny wire black track nails. You use a pencil to rough out the centerline of the tracks on your blue foam. Use something like a nail, string, and pencil tied to the string to get accurate curve radii. Always leave two full inches between the outside tie ends on a curve and the Fall of Doom to the floor. Three is even better.

Then, lay the cork roadbed out along the centerline, and press track nails through it every 6", but only until the heads are flush, never depressing them and dimpling the surface of the cork.

Micro Mark sells a tool for inserting spikes, and another for removing them. If you are handy, you can use a Dremel cut-off disk and modify some needle-nosed pliers with a T groove at the tip that will fit a track nail more securely. They tend to bend easily, or they tilt and ruin the surface as you try to press them in. Takes some practice.

Once your cork is in place, simply lay out your flex track, join it, and fix it in place by driving the same spikes through the tie holes here and there, and into the cork.

Later, when you have your track plan figured out and are happy that you can live with it for a while, use DAP Alex Plus, the stuff that dries clear, in a very thin sheen under both the cork and the ties, each in succession, and remove the track nails when you no longer need them.

If you need help figuring out how to slide the sliding rail to one side several ties, and then to join the two sliding rails inside of one of their lengths using a joiner, let us know. It's involved, but not onerous.


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## mesenteria

ModelTrain747 said:


> I don't mind the soldering, but what makes me nervous is clipping the flex track if I make it into a curve. I noticed one piece moves and one doesn't and also the end pieces of track ties were attached on one side. So need to figure that out too.
> 
> Tim


That sliding rail is necessary for the track to flex...at all. As you have found, by flexing it, one rail must withdraw an end, or extend an end. The sliding rail allows this process.

For fashioning kink-free curves, you actually pull the sliding rail at least five ties into the end of the length of flex you are working with. Then, you clip the spike head details using your rail nipper, and use a needle file to file down the nubs that are left and also the tie plate details into which the spikes would be driven. This allows your metal joiner bottom to be there, holding two rails together, without being forced up into a hump by the details you've just filed off. Then, you slide an extended rail end from another piece of flex into the spike head details in the empty ties until you can get a joiner to join the two slid rail end, and that would be where you've freed the space for the joiner by filing the details off of two adjacent ties.

Then, with two joiners in place, one of them well inside the one piece of flex, you lay the two out flat and aligned as tangent rail, and then solder them at the joiners. When the solder has set, you can place the longer whole along the curve and spike or use caulk as you wish. You can now build tracks on either side of the curve you have just laid.

It sounds horribly involved, but by the time you have made three curves on your layout it will be old hat. Learn by doing.


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## CTValleyRR

ModelTrain747 said:


> I don't mind the soldering, but what makes me nervous is clipping the flex track if I make it into a curve. I noticed one piece moves and one doesn't and also the end pieces of track ties were attached on one side. So need to figure that out too.
> 
> Tim


That's normal for flex track. It's to accommodate the fact that the inside rail on a curve will always be shorter than the outside rail. Most people use the fixed side as the outer curve, but that's not necessary.

Clipping the track isn't hard. You can use several methods, but the easiest is a cutoff wheel in a rotary tool or dedicated rail nippers (don't use your regular metal cutters -- you'll make a mess of the end of the rail). Dress the ends with a small file after cutting.

If it's getting the length right, simply bend the track the way you want it, then mark the cut location with a Sharpie.


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## ModelTrain747

Hi, I'm back.  I think I have everything I need to begin joining everything together. I've been playing with AnyRail creating different designs and I think I've got one I'm happy with. I'm not going to glue though until I've messed with everything a bunch more.

One problem I'm having is connecting flex track together. When I try to connect 2 pieces, the track slides out the back of one of the pieces instead of sliding into the rail joiner. Is there a trick to this or a tool or something to use to hold the track in place so when connecting the joiner from one piece of track to another the joiner doesn't just push metal out of the track?

Thanks!

Tim


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## CTValleyRR

Well, that's one of the things that I like about MicroEngineering flex -- the rails don't slide around like that.

There are a million things you can do to. The simplest is simply to push on the opposite end of the rail and press it back in. You can also clamp the rail, hold it with your thumb, butt a piece of scrap wood against the end, etc.

That said, I think we want to redirect you a little bit. When using flex track, the rail joiners aren't what holds your track together. They simply serve to maintain the alignment of the ends. Your track is held down by adhesive or nails. So there doesn't need to be an ultra-tight connection.

First, check your joiners. Are you using the wrong code (Code 83 joiners for Code 100 track, for instance)? Even if the code is right, rails from different manufacturers have different profiles, so Walthers joiners may not fit Atlas track. Joiners can also get crushed or pinched when you install them on one end of the flex track, or when you cut them apart from the strips they usually come in. I use needle nose pliers and make sure I grab only the end of the bottom where it protrudes, never the whole joiner.

Use a small screwdriver to gently pry the end of the joiner apart and try inserting the track. The fit should be snug, but not tight. If it doesn't slip on with just a little resistance, it is too tight. If you really think it needs to be tighter, crimp it down after you install the rails. If you have to do an entire layout like this, it gets old fast, and your best solution may be just to buy some new joiners.

Ultimately, your best bet will be to solder those joiners to the rails on either side, with just a few joints unsoldered to allow for expansion / contraction of the layout base. This will form a solid running base and good electrical connections.


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## mesenteria

ModelTrain747 said:


> ...
> 
> One problem I'm having is connecting flex track together. When I try to connect 2 pieces, the track slides out the back of one of the pieces instead of sliding into the rail joiner. Is there a trick to this or a tool or something to use to hold the track in place so when connecting the joiner from one piece of track to another the joiner doesn't just push metal out of the track?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tim


There are many videos on youtube about how to handle flextrack. The point to remember is, depending on whether you hold the track so that a curve has the sliding rail on the outside or the inside, the radius is different, but the curvature is the same. This means the sliding rail must be displaced somewhat, and that is what you see.

If you manage to slide the two rails to get them to join across from each other, you'll run into a common and notorious problem...kinks. Trains don't like kinks, particularly when you're already forcing the flex track to conform to the shortest radius advertised for the locomotive and rolling stock. When you kink a joint, the radius is instantly several inches shorter than your otherwise pristinely laid 18" radius curve. 

Why is the joint so tough to deal with? Because all four rail ends don't want to bend. The little plastic nub spikehead details keep them bent everywhere except those last half-inches, where they want to straighten.

There are two remedies:

a. solder the joiners. By filling them with solder, they hold their alignment better. You have to do this with the joint and tracks in tangent, NOT curved....!!!!! Trouble is, when you go to fashion your tight 18" radius, the sliding rail will draw that hard joiner up against the first crosstie, and you'll soon realize you have a different sort of problem altogether. More on that in a moment; or

b. slide one sticking-out end into the spikeheads of the other piece. You pull the other section of track's sliding rail back about five or six ties, and then insert the other end into the now-empty spikeheads. When you make your curve, you'll be amazed at how nice the staggered joints now work.

About the joints soldered across from each other...it's not going to be pretty because those big blobs that result will stand out directly across from each other. Then, you'll try to make them curve and you'll learn you must cut off at least two ties in the direction of the dislocation. Later, you have to cut off those spikehead details in the removed ties, file down the tie plate details to clear the thickness of the joiner, and slide the ties back under the joint. It's a lot of bother, but you have to do it for the slid rail technique as well...one joiner still remains between the two lengths of track. Also, where you have the two displaced ends abutted...you need either a jumper there or a full joiner, or as I do, a half-joiner. It's a lot more work, but a half-joiner will keep the two ends pretty well aligned slid back about six ties into one length of flex. It does work, but it's more work.

How do I get a half-joiner? I place a regular universal Code 100/83 joiner onto a length of Code 100 rail so that half of it sticks out in space. I take my fine jeweler's saw with that hairlike serated filamental blade and I saw the joiner in half. More work, yeah, but we're talking two whole minutes, including looking for the saw or a suitable piece of track.

Has anyone told you yet that there's a steep learning curve in the hobby?


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## ModelTrain747

Thanks guys, I'm continuing to read, watch videos and take in all of your advice. Here is the table now. I bought some foam board to make an elevation/mountain for the track to come up and go across a bridge. I'm also working on a tunnel with the foam. Now I just need to figure out how to make all this look like something other than foam. 

Oh and I painted my first piece of "scenery" tonight. haha.


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## CTValleyRR

Round it over with a rasp into the rough shape desired, then cover it with Sculptamold, drywall mud, clay, plaster, etc., to make a believable terrain contour.

You will also have to build up the terrain around your pond so that it doesn't look like a swimming pool. Unfortunately, this can be very hard to hide. Generally it is a good idea to dig water features down into the terrain a little.


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## Gramps

Nice progress on the layout.:thumbsup:


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## ModelTrain747

CTValleyRR said:


> Round it over with a rasp into the rough shape desired, then cover it with Sculptamold, drywall mud, clay, plaster, etc., to make a believable terrain contour.
> 
> You will also have to build up the terrain around your pond so that it doesn't look like a swimming pool. Unfortunately, this can be very hard to hide. Generally it is a good idea to dig water features down into the terrain a little.


Since I used foam board under the green cover, I'll outline the pond on the grass and cut down into the foam. Thanks!


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## santafealltheway

great start! I like your little ducks!


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## ModelTrain747

Thanks!

So I spent the weekend carving and learning how to use Sculptamold. Next is the other side of the mountain (a bridge will go between them), paint, grass, etc....










I never in a million years thought model railroading was this much work. 

...and I haven't even scratched the surface.

Tim


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## mesenteria

Yes, it surely is a lot of work, and the more you look for shortcuts, or take them, the worse the result...generally. So, use your time to tinker and fiddle, refine techniques, try different tools...LEARN. There will come a day, soon enough, when you will marvel at your craftsmanship, some of it recently acquired. You'll enjoy your trains that much more if you have a nicely detailed and realistic creation.


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## DonR

Modeltrain747

Work? It's a hobby. It's what you do when you've
finished the important stuff.

It is to keep your mind and your hands active. The
many facets of the hobby give you insights into
a good number of challenging aspects...carpentry,
electricity, metal work, mechanics, plastics, model building
and many more.

All of that is just as much a part of our hobby as
watching our trains go around the curve and over
the bridge.

You've got a good start and we see some good
workmanship. Stay in there and enjoy.

Don


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## CTValleyRR

DonR said:


> Modeltrain747
> 
> Work? It's a hobby. It's what you do when you've
> finished the important stuff.
> 
> It is to keep your mind and your hands active. The
> many facets of the hobby give you insights into
> a good number of challenging aspects...carpentry,
> electricity, metal work, mechanics, plastics, model building
> and many more.
> 
> All of that is just as much a part of our hobby as
> watching our trains go around the curve and over
> the bridge.
> 
> You've got a good start and we see some good
> workmanship. Stay in there and enjoy.
> 
> Don


I kind of have to back up Don on this one: there is a lot to do, certainly, but if you don't find it fun, or at least rewarding in some way, then you probably ought to find a different pastime.

And there is no pressure to finish. If you never do, so be it. Don't impose an artificial deadline and suck all the enjoyment out of it.


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