# Switch or turnout



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

This post is meant to stir it up a bit. We all agree that a switch normally is something
that turns something on or off. I will admit I call my turnouts switches. I know that the
proper term is turnout. But a switch can select between A or B. Here is my biggie - many
yards have a tower to control the turnouts. This tower is NOT called a turnout tower
but is called a switch tower. Just having some fun. Whats your view.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Hey Mopac

We've discussed this several times.

Of course railroads have switch men in switch towers who throw
track switches. No argument there.

Here on the Forum some of us always use the term turnout for the track points
so as to not confuse readers when we then talk about electrical on/off or
A / B switches.
That's all it amounts to: choice of terms for clarity. We have 'switches' that
control 'turnouts'. 

Don

Don


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

mopac said:


> I will admit I call my turnouts switches. I know that the
> proper term is turnout. But a switch can select between A or B. Here is my biggie - many
> yards have a tower to control the turnouts. This tower is NOT called a turnout tower
> but is called a switch tower. Just having some fun. Whats your view.


I thought a turnout is the assembly of ties, rails, frog, switchpoints, ...
but you don't "turn" a turnout, you "switch" a turnout.


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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

Real railroads refer to both switches and turnouts.

Switch refers to the points and frog assembly.

A turnout is the diverging route (where the tracks turn out away from the straight route.)

The rules about operating the mechanism will refer to the "switch". The rules about speed will refer to the "turnout" because the speed restriction is due to the curvature (the turning out of the track) through the switch.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

My view:
1) I call it a switch. Have for 62 years, since age four. It is what i was taught by my Dad. My uncle worked for Santa Fe for four decades, the final twenty years as an engineer on the big Northerns and EMD Fs and Es, and he always called them switches. That isn't definitive: one guy and one railroad only, but it's whay I use "switch."

It is worth observing in the Uk these were/maybe still are, called "points."

2) I view the entire thing as a switch, with the curved section to the side being the "turnout." I've never heard any phrase for the straight-ahead portion, which I have always just called "the straight-ahead rails." The actual switchable (movable) rails are called switch rails or point blades, but never switch blades, I understand.

3) I realize there are a few people who insist on one term or the other and say they are correct, but then there always are people like that. Often, I think their insistence is more just to "prove" who really knows (or thinks they know) a lot about real trains. My thinking there is that: a) you can't change there mind, and b) the concept if you use either term, so I just don'[t worry too much. . . .


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

*switches/turnouts*

I've always called them switches.
LIONEL, ROSS, ATLAS, MTH, etc. call them switches.
Had an uncle that worked a switchyard at a local mill growing up. diverted rr cars to different sidings!


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

TURNOUT! 

that's how many show up at the party!!:cheeky4:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Plenty of other interesting things to discuss here without dragging this old canard up.

There is an informal convention in model railroad literature to refer to the model versions as "turnouts" vice "switches" to avoid confusion with the electrical version. There is no implication of greater accuracy, proper terminology, right or wrong, or anything else. Simply a way many authors choose to add clarity.

'Nuff said.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Read my signature.:smokin:

Without a switch there would be no turnout.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Sorry for dragging this up. Been on here since 2011 and did n't see it. It was all in fun anyway. I will try and not bring up a thing that has been mentioned. Have a great day
and move on.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*turnout*

Hi,all. I worked for 9 years in a railroad manufacturing making all sorts of rr stuff. Without a switch to differentiate between tracks you wouldn`t have a turnout. The rails are the turnout which are activated by a big old switch sitting along side the turnout. The man jumped out of the caboose and unlocked the switch and throwed the big heavy handle to change tracks. the sharp blades were called points. which were hooked to a frog. This is my story and I`m sticking to it. Then they got improved to a shanty with a electrical switch or button which activated the points. Don`t take my word for this as you-all can check this out. The company is still in business in missouri and it is L.B. Foster. 

I gotta question: How many of you rr buffs know what a fish plate is? No smart answers please-- Big Ed,this question is not for truck drivers

It is a rr piece. Have a good evening, I love this forum,sanepilot

Mopac- u did good,keep up the questions,it is all in fun


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sanepilot said:


> Hi,all. I worked for 9 years in a railroad manufacturing making all sorts of rr stuff. Without a switch to differentiate between tracks you wouldn`t have a turnout. The rails are the turnout which are activated by a big old switch sitting along side the turnout. The man jumped out of the caboose and unlocked the switch and throwed the big heavy handle to change tracks. the sharp blades were called points. which were hooked to a frog. This is my story and I`m sticking to it. Then they got improved to a shanty with a electrical switch or button which activated the points. Don`t take my word for this as you-all can check this out. The company is still in business in missouri and it is L.B. Foster.
> 
> I gotta question: How many of you rr buffs know what a fish plate is? No smart answers please-- Big Ed,this question is not for truck drivers
> 
> ...


Back in the 70's that is all I used to haul.
Rail, ties, points, spikes, frogs, and yes fish plates though I did not call them that.

I use to haul everything needed for building in new sidings to new buildings going up, brought the pettibone machine in on a low boy and ran that too building new sidings.

But I never used that term, maybe because I am a Joisey boy?


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

isn't the piece that splices 2 rails together the fishplate?


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*fish plates*

Ed,u da man. that`s the reason I excluded you. I knew being a trucker you would know. I haven`t the faintest clue if that term is proper but that is what the company called them.I`ve cut hundreds,along with anything connected to tracks including overhead crane rails and wheels,. We made the tracks for that big lumber[tree] company in the carolinas. Also the tracks for Disneyland in florida.I was one of the fabricators.

They finally had to move their factory here in southern ohio to home base in missouri as business slacked off. I ended up working for a trucking group

Enjoy the evening,Sanepilot


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*fishplates*



cole226 said:


> isn't the piece that splices 2 rails together the fishplate?


 Hey,Cole,I guess you won 1st prize U R so right 

You win a ATTA Boy:thumbsup:

Have fun whatever you do,Sanepilot


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*rr co.*

Hi,all here is the company I worked for,theyre still thriving:


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I always throw the turnout.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

*fishplate*

I've heard the term used for the plates that cover the splices where the members in wooden trusses come together.

my dad made roof trusses for our carport at home 50 years ago using plywood fish plates.:thumbsup:
the plywood was demo from box cars at ACF, there, back to the RR tie.:smilie_auslachen:


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

sanepilot said:


> Without a switch to differentiate between tracks you wouldn`t have a turnout


Oh yeah? Well, without an egg, you wouldn't have a chicken......or is it the other way around.....? Who really knows? 

Then there's the switch dad used to use to bring down obedience on us.......


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Guessing here. Fish plates might be the plates that hold the rails to the ties
and are the plates that the spikes go through and into the ties. Sure hope
this has not been mentioned before. Really I don't give a rat's a$$. Some new
or recent members might find it interesting. Geez, I hate snobs.



I see Cole got the answer.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*rr terms*

Hi,Mopac.. Cole was right ..they are bolted on the ends of the rails holding them together. Now,They use a boot and fill it with maginesum[not sure the name] powder and light it. Makes a awesome sight to watch. It makes a perfect weld holding them together. No more click,clack. modern rr. Those plates holding rail down are called tie plates,I think.
We didn`t make those. I didn`t know they called the wood pieces fish plates. So this week is not all wasted,I learned something.

Everyone have a good day and a better tomorrow,sanepilot:smilie_daumenpos:


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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

Tie plates are the metal pieces that the rails sit on on the ties. They don't "hold the rail to the ties", they spread the weight of the rail and train over a larger area on the tie so the rail doesn't cut into the tie. They started being used widely in the late 1800's, early 1900's. the seat on the tie plate has a 40:1 camber cast into it that leans the rail towards the center of the track for better tracking by the wheels.

The fish plates are also known as joint bars or angle bars. They were called angle bars because if you look at older rail (rail less than 90 lb) they were actually shaped like angles and covered not only the web of the rail but the base too. Later they were more of a thick I crossection and just covered the web.

You can also tell how old rail is because the size and date are cast into the side of the web (provided you can do it safely). If you look closely at the web of a rail you will see it. There will be a number for the weight (per yard) and the design, the name of the mill that rolled the rail and then the rolling year followed by hashes for the month. So "90 ARA USS 1944 IIIII" would be 90 lb ARA cross section rail rolled by US Steel in May of 1944.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)




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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

I wonder if that's a N American "fishplate"? 3 things are unusual for this side of the Atlantic. First the angle bars extend below the rail (that forces the joint to be between ties), second that are no lock washers on the bolts.

Anybody else spot the 3rd thing that's unusual (at least for eras after color film was invented) and why N American practice generally is different that that example?


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

gregc said:


>


good catch dave
this one is from UK

seems I recall we stagger our bolts:dunno:


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

Good morning,all Looks like the rails have a crack in between them. that`s why they went to weld. Things are better in United states is why. Ask yourself why everybody in the world wants to come here Good thread,thanks to Mopac for bringing it back up:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Have a great day,running late,burning daylight,sanepilot


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

sanepilot said:


> Good morning,all Looks like the rails have a crack in between them. that`s why they went to weld. Things are better in United states is why.


Not judging by the number of rail crashes there in the last couple of years!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So, the biggest reason that things are better in the states, and everybody in the world wants to go there, is due to welded rail.....?

Why do I think it's really for other reasons.......?


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> So, the biggest reason that things are better in the states, and everybody in the world wants to go there, is due to welded rail.....?
> 
> Why do I think it's really for other reasons.......?


Absolutely. Having more McDs than any other country is much more important!

That and of course, because after becoming citizens they will get to vote. It's really something to look forward to, because you have a choice from aoong so many honest, hard working, sober and thoughtful politicians!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Lee Willis said:


> Absolutely. Having more McDs than any other country is much more important!
> 
> That and of course, because after becoming citizens they will get to vote. It's really something to look forward to, because you have a choice from aoong so many honest, hard working, sober and thoughtful politicians!


I know that remark is made in jest but at least here in Africa you know all the politicians are corrupt so you know what you are getting.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Hmmm.....sounds just like the U.S. to me......


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

I think that in some cases turnouts could be called "derailers".


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

Hey,Cycle,Over here you`d have to be living in a cave deep underground and not come out in daylight or plain stupid not to know our politics are crooked. The name of the game over here is money,money,money[ GO HILLARY}.. Right down to our jerk-water
towns.:laugh::laugh:

To be honest[man,that`s hard]. Now,around here if you use dope,you can turn in your old needles for new ones. Won`t be long before the do-gooders will be furnishing them the dope
I think we all should run for president,we`re possible qualified.At least me.all you gotta do is be stupid and a yes man. Go for it,Mr trump:appl: I better quit before I get in trouble. Better seen than heard. silence is golden:smilie_daumenpos:

Have a good weekend,enjoy,sanepilot


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

fcwilt said:


> I think that in some cases turnouts could be called "derailers".


Mine sure are, especially when the switchman has one too
many at Maizy's.

BTW...there is an actual device that the railroads use on
some spurs. It's fitted to a rail approaching the main line
and it's purpose is to derail a car that broke loose before
it gets on the main line.

Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

dave1905 said:


> Tie plates are the metal pieces that the rails sit on on the ties. They don't "hold the rail to the ties", they spread the weight of the rail and train over a larger area on the tie so the rail doesn't cut into the tie. They started being used widely in the late 1800's, early 1900's. the seat on the tie plate has a 40:1 camber cast into it that leans the rail towards the center of the track for better tracking by the wheels.
> 
> The fish plates are also known as joint bars or angle bars.


That is what we called them Sane.....joint bars. ( sounds like something from the hippy days.)

Besides distributing the weight of the rail on the tie it also kept the rail to gauge. Along with the gauge bars that were installed.
Only one spike is used on each side, notice that the rail sits down in the plate, that holds it to gauge.


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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

The spikes hold the gauge. 

"Derailers" is a model railroad term, the railroad name is "derail". The switch stand for a track with a derail on it will have a round purple sign with a white D.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*tie plates*

Thanks for the photo. I didn`t know about the camber.I`ll look around here for one old one in use. We have some old tracks locally.,They were used with at least 4 spikes as that was what held the ties in place and rail to the ties,2 spikes saves them some money..Notice the lip of the spike. On each side of the plate was a raised Ridge which kept the rail in place. or gauge. Never saw a track gauge used in place,only a man who rode the rails,checking the gauge[maintenance].The derailer could be laid over so the track could be used regular. They also had a rerailer which could be used to put back a car on the track which had jumped off along the line or anywhere.As far as the fishplates that was what LB Foster called them. Hippy,I doubt it as I was growing up[ a little before that era] Oh yes,I`m a Railroad expert.I graduated from college,it`s called the college of hard knocks] I never had time to be a Hippy[Yea,Woodstock] Was you there Ed? Thanks,everyone for there input. Always learning,yipee,sanepilot

Have a great sunday,everyone:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

DonR said:


> BTW...there is an actual device that the railroads use on
> some spurs. It's fitted to a rail approaching the main line
> and it's purpose is to derail a car that broke loose before
> it gets on the main line.
> ...


in the UK its called a 'catch point'. You can replicate on your railroad as Peco make one.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Here are pics of various derailer designs.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...=yhs-mozilla-001&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

dave1905 said:


> The spikes hold the gauge.


Well yes....but the plate helps too, but it is actually the spikes that do the holding.



sanepilot said:


> Hippy,I doubt it as I was growing up[ a little before that era] Oh yes,I`m a Railroad expert.I graduated from college,it`s called the college of hard knocks] I never had time to be a Hippy[Yea,Woodstock] Was you there Ed? Thanks,everyone for there input. Always learning,yipee,sanepilot
> 
> Have a great sunday,everyone:smilie_daumenpos:


Gauge rods pictures here for you,
https://www.ez2rail.com/gage-rods

As you see from the pictures you won't really notice them after they are installed unless you know what your looking for. I don't think these are used in all the rails today.




1969.....a good year.
I am on the album cover, that is me holding the first wife.


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## Water Stop (Apr 18, 2015)

I've discovered that a switch can turn ON a light too!

w.s.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

This derailer does its job and not a moment too soon by looks of it!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Water Stop said:


> I've discovered that a switch can turn ON a light too!


That is a given, since the light has to be on, before you can turn it off.....


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

big ed said:


> ....1969.....a good year. I am on the album cover, that is me holding the first wife.
> View attachment 61994


Ed, you're such a kidder. The couple is actually Nick and Bobbi Ercoline, and they've been married since 1971.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...rcoline-40-years-summer-love-article-1.430404


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