# Complete Newbie, Restoration Project for Dad



## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

Hi All,

so went digging through some old stuff and found my dads model train set from when he was young. I know he loved it but i have never seen him use it. I think he has had too many responsibilities bringing me up. so as a gesture of love and family i want to restore his model set into a working piece of beauty and fun. i love how peaceful a model strain set looks when running properly and i need you guys help to get this achieved.

so to start with i did some research on the train but did not find too much, i think im looking in the wrong place. It looks like he has a hornby dublo edl18 #80054. im not sure if this is good or not. It looks like he has 2 sets of tracks, they both fit the train. attached are the 2 types. he also has some cariges which look like they are from the same set. i have a speed controller aswell. 

my questions are:
what else will i need to get this running? 
how can i make sure the trains still work without breaking them? 
how do i know which is the right track? 
where should i start? 
what parts will i need to make this a proper working set?

i would really appreciate any help on this as i do not know anything about this hobby.


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

I know very little about O scale.
But, it looks like you have about everything you need to get started.

About maintenance I know nothing for O scale.

We do have several good O scale people here, maybe they will stop in to advise you.
And, welcome to the forum.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

While waiting for the 0 scale experts to check in, you might
inspect that track carefully. The pics seem to indicate that
it may have a good deal of rust. That will impede electrical
conductivity so it will have to be cleaned. The top of the
rails must be bare metal with no rust.

From what you show you seem to have all required to
run the train.

It will be easier to test what you have if you simply set up
a small oval at first. Wipe the rails to make sure they
can conduct electricity. Also see that the prongs that
connect the track section rails are clean as they also must conduct
power. 

Is it obvious how you run wires from the transformer (controller) to
the track? Usually the terminals are identified, 'track'
or 'accessories'. Connect to track terminals. One wire
would go to the center rail, the other to either outside
rail. It does not matter which. You may find some
track sections that have a device which you use to
make the connection. That makes it easier.

If you find that way make the connection and place a
locomotive on the track, work the controls and see what
happens. It should not damage the loco unless you
run it too fast and it falls off. Usually, an 0 gauge loco
will go forward until you turn off the power then it
will back up.

Don't know Hornby but on US 0 gauge you usually get 0 to 14 volts 
or so AC between the center rail and either running rail.

The usual way for an 0 gauge locomotive to get power is thru
a roller or wiper between the wheels that will contact the
middle rail. The other side of the electrical circuit is thru
the metal wheels on the running rails.

Look at the under side of the locos. If the middle contactor is
there it would run on the 3 rail track. 

All of the track that I saw appeared to be 3 rail 0 gauge. What
other type of track do you have?

It appears that you have a great deal of track but only one
passenger train. Usually with that much track there would
be more than one train, usually freight cars (carriages).

I see that you have at least one pair of turnouts or as some
say 'points' or 'switches'. Usually there are small sets of
buttons or levers to control these. Likely they are
remote controlled using power from the accessories terminals
on your transformer.

Don


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cool, I haven't a clue what it is! The 5th picture of the curved track where there are two terminal screws is where the power wires go. The track doesn't look rusty to me! The switches , if they don't have those screws are probably manually switched by the lever, I'm thinking there manual. Yes more pictures of the engine please! A little drop of oil on the axles and moving parts would help, but not on the bottom of the wheels. Very little. Nice set, someone will know what it is!


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

Ok so I will post picks at the end of this post for the requests. Once I put everything together I will see how rusted all the contacts are and give them a clean if necessary. You mentioned I only had one train, I have the front, the carages(3) and a small section included in the photos. With regards to the different train tracks, they both Oo scale but one is different to the other and maybe thought there was something I should look out for. 

I found a guy online who is selling a collection of 0 scale trains and tracks for $500. So I will have a look on Saturday at his collection. 

I need to find out though, will 00 and 0 scale be compatible?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Did you intend to say you had 00 scale track?

According to Wikipedia and Peco it is 2 rail same as HO.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15613&highlight=Transistor+circuit+needed&page=6

All of the track you have posted seems to be 3 rail 0 gauge.

Here is what Wiki says about 0 gauge. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_scale

You might note the measurements and check your track
against these. If the same, the 0 gauge you are evaluating
should work on your track. Take your track and a locomotive
when you see that collection. The track should match up.
You can see if your locomotive runs on the US layout also.

We have several UK and other European members. I was hoping one or
more would check your post and offer experienced opinions.

Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well you were right when you said Hornby.
That is a, Hornby Dublo OO 3 rail British Railways 2-6-4 Tank locomotive # 80054.

I think we have another thread on this locomotive here somewhere.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

For those of you that don't know, Hornby Dublo is a 3-rail DC powered OO scale, not the same as Lionel O scale. The British OO scale as practiced in the UK is 1/76th the size of the real trains, and runs on the same track gauge as HO scale (16.5mm). While O scale in the UK is normally 1/43.5th the size of the real thing, and runs on 32mm (very close to 1.25 inches) over there. O Scale in the UK is commonly 1:43.5 or 7 mm to the foot, in continental Europe it is commonly 1:45 scale. British OO scale is 4 mm to the foot, while American HO scale is 3.5 mm to the foot. Believe it or not, O scale/gauge has ranged between 30 and 33 mm's wide, depending on the standards of a particular brand.

EDIT : 

I earlier wrote it was AC powered, but I was wrong. I have corrected my mistake. Hornby Dublo was always 3-rail DC powered, since it was introduced in 1938 until the company was bought by it's competitor Tri-Ang in 1964. As far as I know, all Tri-Ang (and the Hornby after 1964) was 2-rail DC powered. I know for a fact the modern Hornby being made nowadays are DC powered, 2 rail trains.


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

Thank you very much for the info. I am slightly more confused now. The guy I'm going to look at on the weekend has a big hornby collection that he says is o scale. But I don't think he knows exactly what it is. How can I check the right scale? Must I just make sure that the train and tracks have 3 rails/point of contacts and that the train fits the tracks and moved with no issue?


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

In the old days, Hornby made both O scale, and OO scale trains, both with 3-rail. I made a mistake in my previous posting. The OO scale has always been DC powered. Sorry about any confusion. The very old O scale Hornby made was AC powered (and some O scale was also clockwork). 

Hornby OO has always been DC powered. 

Meccano Ltd of Liverpool produced Hornby Dublo trains from 1938 to 1964, which were DC powered with 3 rails. They also made clockwork trains until the start of WW2. In 1964, Hornby and Meccano were bought by their competitor, Tri-Ang, and sold on when Tri-ang went into receivership. Hornby Railways became independent in the 1980s.

Nowadays Hornby is a 2 rail DC powered model train, (along with all their competitors) which run on regular HO gauge track, but is still to a 1/76th scale, which is common to all British OO scale trains. Both OO and HO use the same track gauge, but their scales are different. 

More information here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornby_Railways


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

By the way, you indeed have OO scale trains, not O scale. I can tell by the couplers.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

To answer your earlier questions, you have tracks from two different manufactors. I just took a closer look. Some of your track is indeed Hornby Dublo, 3 rail. The other track is from Marklin, also 3 rail. They both made the same type of track, at the same times. Marklin made solid 3 rail track from 1934 until about 1953, when they switched to a stud 3 rail track (which they still make to this day, in their HO scale lineup). Hornby Dublo produced solid 3 rail track, from 1938 until 1964. Both will work just fine, because both are the same track gauge of 16.5 mm, and both have a solid 3rd rail down the middle. 

The rail connectors might be slightly different, or at different heights. You might need to shim one brand, to reach the height of the other, if they are of different heights. I can't tell by looking at the pictures. But operating should be fine on both brands of track you have. They both work exactly the same mechanically and electrically. You should be able to combine they both in a single layout. I know I would combine them together. 

I don't know anything about your transformer / power pack. But all you need is a power pack for 12 volt DC trains. Does not matter the brand, any brand will work, as long as it's designed for 12 volt DC powered trains. As long as your power pack outputs around 12 volts to the track, you can use it fine. Make sure it's operating safely. It should have a good cord, no rust. And I recommend something with a working circuit breaker, for safety reasons when the train derails. 

I noticed your locomotive has the 3rd rail wipers on the bottom, so yes the locomotive is compatible with all your track (both brands you showed in the pictures). You could test the locomotive with a 9 volt battery, very quickly, just to see if it even works. If a 9 volt battery does nothing, you might need to remove the shell (body) from the chassis, and check inside.

Also you will need to clean the track, and the wheels on the locomotive. Do NOT use steal wool, or anything that will scratch the track. A track cleaning eraser is better. Or just quickly use the eraser on a pencil, it will work. 

AS far as I know, you have everything needed to make a set. As long as the locomotive and controller are working properly. 

Howard


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

It's pretty easy to tell the scale of the trains. O scale is much larger, and the distance between the wheels (the track gauge) is about 32 millimeters. Both OO and HO scale are about half the size, with a track gauge of 16.5 millimeters between the rails. 

There have been three different brands of trains, which worked on 3 rails, in the HO (or OO) scales. Marklin in Germany, Hornby Dublo in England, and also Trix Twin, also originally in England. To the untrained eye, they will all look exactly the same, the track and locomotives. Because all three (in the old days, such as 1930's - 1950's or 60's) had 3 solid rails, and a slider under the locomotive to pick up electricity. 

Hornby Dublo is 3 rail, 12 volt DC powered. Produced only from 1938 until 1964. Made in UK. 

Marklin is 16 volt AC powered, German. Made solid 3 rail track from 1934 until 1953. Switched to a center stud (still AC) 3 rail track in the 1953-1955 years. Still being made to this day. 

Trix Twin is also 3 rail, made in England and Germany between 1935 and 1970. First it was 14 volts AC. Eventually, in 1957, Trix changed their motors to 12 volts DC.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

By the way, a way to know which track is which. Both of the straights and curves of your Marklin track is shorter then the Hornby Dublo you have. Each of the Hornby tracks look to be almost twice as long, compared to the Marklin. The points (switches) are Hornby as well. The locomotive, break van (wagon) and passenger carriages are also Hornby.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

00 and 0 scale are not compatible. O scale is about twice as long, twice as wide, and twice as tall, compared to OO scale. Which means, if a OO scale wagon is 4 inches (100 mm) long, in the bigger O scale, it will be 8 inches (200 mm) long.


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

Wow, this is an amazing forum and thank you to all for the assistance. the guy i am meeting on the weekend said he has the following:

Lionel "O" Rolling Stock 

Steam Loco and Tender [Black} 3x Goods Van 
Steam Loco and Tender [Bronzed} Tender needs attention	2X Petrol Tankers 
2 x Open Bogeys 
Tracks Flatbed 
Petrol Tanker	Needs Att
Curved	14 Dining Car	Needs Att
Straight	4 
3 x Uncoupler 
Connecting 
Crossover 

Whistle Controller 
Lamp Pole 
Telephone poles 


Hornby "O"	Tracks Rolling Stock 

Curved 13 Goods van 
Straight 33 Tipper 
Manual Points 3 Brick Bogey	Needs Att
Crossover Crane Truck	Needs Att
Buffer Stop Goods Truck	Needs Att
Open Bogey	Needs Att
Elecrtic Signal and operation Pad 


American Flyer "O"	Closed Slide Door Goods Truck 
Transformer	Needs Att 
Im worried that because he states all are O scale, that non will be compatible. He also sent me some pics but non with scale. I think i will have to bring a track and train with me to see if they are the same size as he did state he has a hornby set.

I will test the Rails and train tonight with a simple loop to check if it is working. i can test the transformer and check if it is 12V, and make sure all the contacts are clean.

guys thanx again for the help, it is really nice to be on this forum with such possitive feedback and help. I really appreciate it.


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

Hey all, so I got home an set up a simple loop. I found a 12 DC power supply, I attached it to the controller and then to the track, I put train on the tracks turned on the power aaaaaand .... Nothing... I then bypassed the speed controller and still nothing, I opened the train up and had a look, it looks pretty gummy and dirty, I managed to spin the wheels but they are still rather hard to turn, is this normal?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

That's pretty gummed up, you're going to need to pull that apart. Looks easy enough though, use a cheap muffin tin to catch your parts in the order they came off, clean them really good with an electronic parts cleaner, then put it back together. Use a light oil (I use Wahl Hair Clipper Oil) on all the bearings when putting it back together, and a light grease on the gears.


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

That's what I was thinking, is there anything I have to look out for when taking apart? If I clean ip the train and oil it properly, put it back on track and it does work, what's the next step to check? The tracks and the speed controller?


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

That locomotive is definitely gummed up, it will need a good cleaning. I've never owned any Hornby, so I don't know any details about how it works. But by looking at it, it does not look too bad to take apart. I've owned 3-rail HO scale Marklin, 3-rail O scale Lionel, and various 2-rail DC powered brands in both N and HO scales. 

Does your locomotive even try to run, or make any noise, or buzz or anything? Or absolutely nothing, like a dead silence? 

The advice from shaygetz is correct. If you don't have an electronic parts cleaner, just do the best you can. You can use an old tooth brush, it's often good to get into tight spots. But you need to be very careful with the actual motor (the windings) so you don't break any solder points in the wire. I do know an electronic parts cleaner, would be wonderful to have. I don't have one, but I should get one of them. I can see the benefit.

Another "potential" problem would be a weak magnet in the open frame motor. After a while, sometimes those old magnets lose much of their power, especially if it's been taken apart before. 
Another "potential" risk to taking apart an old style motor completely. 

If you dismantle an open frame motor completely, to the extent of taking the magnet (or armature) out of the magnetic field, it often will weaken the magnetic field. With less magnetic field now, there will be greater current flow through the motor windings, and this can lead to overheating of the motor and ultimately a motor burn out. With certain types of magnets (Alnico), it's both easy to magnetize and easy to demagnetize the magnets. So be careful, you might weaken the motor, if you take it apart completely. My advice, keep it together as a unit. If you do take the motor apart, it might need to be remagnetized.


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

Hi all, I cleaned everything up and it's looking squeaky clean now, the wheels now move with ease. I set up another simple circuit and put the train on. The train moved 1mm forward and stopped moving. If I give it a nudge it moves slightly and then stops. I lifter the train slightly to ease the resistance on the wheels and the train sped up and sounded good but when I put it back down it moves 1mm forward then stops, does this mean the magnets are too weak?


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

https://vimeo.com/112382205


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have a couple of suspicions:

1. Possible bearing point binding when wheels take 
the loco's weight. You could possibly test this by powering
the loco 'on it's back', applying power to the wheels and
rollers, then test the torque when you press a section of 
track to the end drive wheels. If just a slight pressure
stalls the loco that would seem to point to some vertical
axle play. You could test each wheel with your fingers. If the
torque seems strong enuf off the track in this test it would
seem that the motor is OK.

2. The drive rods are binding as a result of vertical movement
of drive wheels when they take loco weight. When the loco
does actually move on the track observe the positions of each
set of rods. Is there a correlation to the point where the loco
stalls.

Question: Does it stall in reverse also?

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have a couple of suspicions:

1. Possible bearing point binding when wheels take 
the loco's weight. You could possibly test this by powering
the loco 'on it's back', applying power to the wheels and
rollers, then test the torque when you press a section of 
track to the end drive wheels. If just a slight pressure
stalls the loco that would seem to point to some vertical
axle play. You could test each wheel with your fingers. If the
torque seems strong enuf off the track in this test it would
seem that the motor is OK.

2. The drive rods are binding as a result of vertical movement
of drive wheels when they take loco weight. When the loco
does actually move on the track observe the positions of each
set of rods. Is there a correlation to the point where the loco
stalls.

Questions: Does it stall in reverse also?
Does the headlight dim substantially or go out when it stalls?

Don


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

I will have to test the wheels when I get back home. What I did find was the longer I pushed it along the tater it seemed to go and it would move slightly further each time I encouraged it. In reverse it worked even better and I managed to get the train to do one full loop but extremely slowly. I could smell the engine as it was moving more and more. Not sure what it all means but it won't go forward on its own


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Also, just trying to eliminate stuff here, check the transformer to see if its putting out enough power. Who knows, this stuff is old! And check the gears, like was mentioned , the weight from the shell could cause something to bind up.


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

Hey all again, so I cleaned her up again and tested the transformer, the input was 12.11v and the output was 10.99v at max. I got it to do a few full loops of the track but it's not moving fast. If I connect the 12v power supply straight the the track the train moves really nicely and van even carry a load. I noticed though when I placed it on a straight track it struggles to move but when I place it on a round track it works really nicely. Why is this?


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

That is interesting, it's running better on the curves, instead of the straights? Are all the little rail joiners clean on the inside, where they contact the rails? There could be rust or oxidation there maybe. 

Usually I have more problems on curves, compared to straights, because when the locomotive is traveling in the curve, the wheels might be binding to get thru the curve. For me that is usually a problem with long equipment on sharp curves. I don't know what is causing your particular problem.

Well at least your train is running better now, then it was a few days ago. That is good news. It needed a good cleaning I guess.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The loco slow down on the curved track could
be caused by the friction of the wheel flanges
pressing against the rails as the rails do what
they are designed to do, cause the train to
turn. If the slow down is substantial that could
be because the motor is already straining because
of whatever basic problem you have experienced.

You might try to locate a hobby shop with a
layout or test track and see how well the loco does
on a known to be working track.

Don


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## MarcVanJ (Nov 16, 2014)

The loco does well on curves. It works really well. It just does not work well on the straights or at all really. What should I be getting out of my transformer?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Well, maybe it is the wheel flange pressure against the rails that gives
you better electrical conductivity thus the loco runs better
on curves. You might try cleaning the inside edge
of the rails on some of your straight pieces and see if that helps.

Not sure of your system, but most transformers (AC) or
power packs (DC) will put up to 14 volts on the tracks. 

Most also state the output voltage somewhere on the device.
Is that present?

By the way, does the input voltage match that available in your
house? Everything here in the US is 120 vac at the wall outlets but
I'm aware so many over seas countries use other voltages.

Don


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

What is your transformer rated for? There should be a label on it. But generally, your locomotive should be okay on any DC power pack, with a maximum of 12-14 volts. I have a couple power packs that output 20 volts DC to the track, so I have to be extra careful I don't turn the dial too far. My power packs (MRC Tech 2, Locomotion 2500), which are designed for everything from N scale, HO scale, and up to G scale. 

I also have recently purchased another MRC pack (MRC Controlmaster XI), which is an older style pack from the 1960's or 1970's, which outputs a maximum of 16 volts DC. It has built in meters, for amps and volts. It's quite nice. 

As long as you keep your power pack around 12 volts or less for HO scale, you will be okay. I limit my HO trains to 12-14 volts, because that is what they are designed for. 

I'm quite surprised your loco does well on curves, but not straights. I don't understand that.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm guessing you live in South Africa, from your profile. In South Africa the standard voltage is 230 Volts AC at the wall. The standard frequency is 50 Hz. 

As long as you have a power pack / transformer designed for 230 volts, and was designed for HO and OO scale trains, it should output somewhere around 12-14 volts for the trains. Larger scales such as O and G, need more voltage, usually up to 20 volts. 

And like Don recently posted, make sure you are cleaning the inside edges of all your track, along with the tops of the rails. The wheel flanges wipe against the inside edges of the outside rails. The wheels contact the top of the rails, and also the inside edge of the outside rails. You only need to clean the top of the middle rail of course. 

And you need to clean the inside edges of all train wheels, along the flanges.


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