# The Atlas Turntable Strikes Back (Bad Star Wars Analogy)



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Was making final connections to my Atlas turntable today with DCC decoder installed and was testing it all out, but as it turned the engine light was flickering and losing power. Hmmm. All connections seemed to be tight and correct. After exhausting all other causes I finally had to open it up, because I couldn't have it acting up after all the tracks were attached. It even fought me there because it had a tiny square drive screw holding the plates together - a drive I did not have.

Thanks Atlas. :thumbsdown:

I had to use a tiny screwdriver as a substitute.

I took the top plate off and it revealed 2 small cylinders, which were the means by which the power was transferred from the bottom signal plates to the top rails. The cylinders move/slide along as the top plate turns always making electrical contact. The small cylinders were in 2 parts - one part fit inside the other, and in one there was a spring which pushes the 2 parts apart to make good contact with the rail and bottom plate. Lo and behold, one of the cylinder thingies had no spring. 

Thanks Atlas. :thumbsdown:

2 hours later, after I put it all back together, it now works as it should. :thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bummer ... was that from the factory with a missing contact spring? Surprising. Where'd you find a suitably sized spring? Simple fix, I guess ... after all of the pregame legwork, though ...


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> Bummer ... was that from the factory with a missing contact spring? Surprising.


Yes sir.



> Where'd you find a suitably sized spring? Simple fix, I guess ... after all of the pregame legwork, though ...


I had some that fit it OK which I had kept from old Rapido coupler sets. It isn't exactly the same spring but it worked as well. Don't ask how I got it back together again - it was a nightmare. 

I' ve found out since I got back into this hobby that little things can really burn you. So I test out everything. I mean I had run the turntable quite a bit before (without an engine powered up on it) and thought that was enough - I was wrong.


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

xrunner said:


> Yes sir.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't ask how I got it back together again - it was a nightmare.


I can only IMAGINE!!!!!! I think if that happens to me, (I'm not as patient as you). I'll probably go out and just buy a new one. LOL Glad you got it fixed.:thumbsup: Great job!!:thumbsup:

Routerman


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

jzrouterman said:


> I can only IMAGINE!!!!!! I think if that happens to me, (I'm not as patient as you). I'll probably go out and just buy a new one. LOL Glad you got it fixed.:thumbsup: Great job!!:thumbsup:
> 
> Routerman


if that happened to me and i just got it id take it back and either get my money back or a new replacement  no Im not patent im just sensible...


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

At least you caught it before you had everything down. Then again Atlas might get mad, they worked hard on building their reputation on having a crappy turntable :laugh:


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## ASQTec (Apr 24, 2011)

So, aside from the minor setback, how do you like the turntable? I am getting ready to install mine.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

ASQTec said:


> So, aside from the minor setback, how do you like the turntable? I am getting ready to install mine.


I hope you got the motor because it takes forever to turn the thing with the manual wheel. You want to turn it 180 deg with that manual wheel? Forget it. You don't have the patience. 

Even with the motor, you got plenty of time to go get a snack while it turns your engine 180 deg. And with the motor it's noisy. Very noisy. I'm not sure why it's so noisy because one of the the gears is plastic, but it sure is. Maybe some type of plastic-friendly lube is needed. The alignment is good at the stops. Easy to convert to DCC (recommended). Came with a replacement motor drive belt. Easy to wire up once you understand the instructions. Self-reversing also.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Here it is in all it's glory -


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the gears don't have some grease, I'd certainly lube them, that may do a lot to quiet it down.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If the gears don't have some grease, I'd certainly lube them, that may do a lot to quiet it down.


What type of grease? There is a brass gear running against a plastic gear.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I personally use white lithium grease on such things, it's very benign and shouldn't affect any plastics.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I personally use white lithium grease on such things, it's very benign and shouldn't affect any plastics.


I lubed the main gear with lithium grease and it did help, but was still noisy. I took the motor drive off and lubed other gears inside, and it help some more. But the rascal is still fairly noisy. However it did help reduce the noise.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It may just be noisy.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It may just be noisy.


Maybe it's by design - to simulate the real noise. :retard:

If anyone wants to know - it takes 68 seconds to turn the table 180 deg @ 9.5 V. It says you can run it at 12 V, but to me it sounds like it's going to explode at that voltage.

At 9.5 V the gear is spinning very fast, that's why I said if you plan on using it in the manual mode, think again.


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

Xnats said:


> they worked hard on building their reputation on having a crappy turntable :laugh:


I disagree. I think it's a very good turntable and at a reasonable price as well. In addition to having two of the HO models, I also have an old N scale version and I've had good service with all of them, and as xrunner stated, (which I too agree) their alignment is good. 



xrunner said:


> Even with the motor, you got plenty of time to go get a snack while it turns your engine 180 deg. .


The way I've got my HO turntables wired, (to two Atlas controlers) I can control their speed, fast or slow.



xrunner said:


> And with the motor it's noisy. Very noisy. I'm not sure why it's so noisy because one of the the gears is plastic, but it sure is. Maybe some type of plastic-friendly lube is needed.


All of mine, (both Ho and N cale) make the same leval of noise. So maybe it's just the way they're made. But you're right, they are a bit noisy. But if they're turned very slowly, the noise is not really an issue. Besides, when it moves very slowly, it looks more real, as the REAL turntables that I've seen operating always moved very slowly.

Routerman


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

jzrouterman said:


> All of mine, (both Ho and N cale) make the same leval of noise. So maybe it's just the way they're made. But you're right, they are a bit noisy.


I've got another idea I will try later today. It comes from the auto/car audio industry. It may help. Will report results.



> The way I've got my HO turntables wired, (to two Atlas controlers) I can control their speed, fast or slow...
> 
> But if they're turned very slowly, the noise is not really an issue. Besides, when it moves very slowly, it looks more real, as the REAL turntables that I've seen operating always moved very slowly.


As far as I'm concerned, it turns slowly _now_, @9.5V. As I said, that takes 68 sec. to turn 180 deg. My gosh jz, how much slower would a person want to turn the thing? hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Think of 200,000 pounds or more of locomotive on the thing and ask yourself how fast do you want to get that going? The reason they turn very slowly in the real world is it's not that easy to stop that much mass rotating on the TT!


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Think of 200,000 pounds or more of locomotive on the thing and ask yourself how fast do you want to get that going? The reason they turn very slowly in the real world is it's not that easy to stop that much mass rotating on the TT!


We need real data to talk to or we'll just argue over our own opinions.

Needed data:

*Approximately how fast does a real turntable take to turn 180 or 360 deg?*

Additional questions.

1. When we get the data we'll have to address why the manufacturer of the model says to use 12V to power it, which turns it even faster than what I'm turning it. Do they not want it to simulate a real turntable?

2. Do we have to model a real turntable speed, when it takes so long to turn it, i.e., do we want to get certain things done faster on the layout, because we are trying to have "fun" and not sit to wait for a needed result (turning the engine so we can go on with the fun). For example, real turnouts certainly do not switch as fast as mine do when energized by the controller, yet is that acceptable when it doesn't duplicate the speed of a real switch (would be much, much slower)? Compare this analogy to the turntable speed we are talking about. Certain things we model don't have to duplicate the velocity/speed of real thing do they?


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

While I agree that the turntable is noisy and slow I have not had an issues with that. I have my HO one hooked to an old Bachmann power supply. Allows me to turn it real slowly. When turning slowly there it little noise. In my operations I place one engine on the table and turn it as the next is coming in. Kind of a challenge to always keep a locomotive turning, incoming and out going. With the Bachmann PS I can speed up and slow down the table to help keep things in step.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

tkruger said:


> While I agree that the turntable is noisy and slow I have not had an issues with that. I have my HO one hooked to an old Bachmann power supply. Allows me to turn it real slowly.


I just want to know, out of curiosity, how slowly you turn it. I have no idea what you mean by "slowly" without any reference point.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

From another forum...

This thread: Turntable speed



> Depending on the power of the motor running it, most turntables need between two and three minutes to finish a 180 degree turn. Any faster is unsafe, and well...[B)] I watched the now-gone CN table in Ft. Erie, Ont, which turned ex-Wabash N&W F7s in just over two minutes. I also watched Western Maryland Scenic's table in Frostburg MD, and it needed three minutes to spin their 2-8-0, admittedly heavier than a Wab/NW F7.


Note that they're talking two-three minutes for a 180 turn...


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I agree with John, the Atlas table is a nice, reliable runner that has been around since the 1950s. My N scale one is very quiet actually, I run it at about 2-3 rpm off of a dedicated train set transformer so that I can adjust the speed as needed.










BTW, the table in the B&O roundhouse museum is a covered one like the Atlas,...though not common, they were used, primarilly in the northern snow country to keep the pits from filling with the frosty stuff...


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

xrunner said:


> I just want to know, out of curiosity, how slowly you turn it. I have no idea what you mean by "slowly" without any reference point.


It is hard to describe. I would say about half way between the 20% and 40% power power marks on the Bachmann transformer. This is one of the older kit types. The thing is labeled as 17 VDC max output. It may take 45 seconds to a minute to turn a large engine 180.

I was wondering what difference would it make sound wise to insulate the shack and / or change the motor? I do not like the shack's look much anyways. Was thinking of building the base of the water tower there or something.

Below is how mine is set up. Yes there is overhang but it will turn, barely.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Note that they're talking two-three minutes for a 180 turn...


OK, so I'm taking 68 sec. That's faster but not an order of magnitude faster than 120 seconds.



shaygetz said:


> My N scale one is very quiet actually, I run it at about 2-3 rpm off of a dedicated train set transformer so that I can adjust the speed as needed.


What do you mean 2 -3 rpm? You mean the motor runs at 2 -3 rpm? Or the table? Either one makes no sense to me at the moment. Please explain further.



tkruger said:


> It is hard to describe. I would say about half way between the 20% and 40% power power marks on the Bachmann transformer. This is one of the older kit types. The thing is labeled as 17 VDC max output. It may take 45 seconds to a minute to turn a large engine 180.


Well then we are in the same ballpark, because I'm doing 180 deg in 68 sec. We really don't have much of a difference to debate.



> I was wondering what difference would it make sound wise to insulate the shack and / or change the motor?


Take a look at this solution -

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10903


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

xrunner said:


> What do you mean 2 -3 rpm? You mean the motor runs at 2 -3 rpm? Or the table? Either one makes no sense to me at the moment. Please explain further.


That would be the table itself...very easy to clock with a cheap 2 minute egg timer.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

shaygetz said:


> That would be the table itself...very easy to clock with a cheap 2 minute egg timer.


But that's _very_ fast.

2 rpm is 2 complete revolutions in 60 sec or 1 complete rev (360 deg) in 30 sec. You can reverse an engine (180 deg) in 15 seconds. That's way faster than any of us have been talking about.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

...in practice though, it's hardly a threat to models and much slower than it sounds.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

shaygetz said:


> ...in practice though, it's hardly a threat to models and much slower than it sounds.


Oh I agree with all that, but I would have thought you would be the one to model such things in more true-to-life speeds. That's one thing I was getting questioned about in the thread. But if it's good enough for you then it's good enough for me.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

...does this look like the work of someone who worries about prototype speeds?










Truthfully though, I'm a graduate of the School of "Close Enough"...that is, if it looks right, then it's OK with me. I also have a minor degree in Plausibility 101, which allows me to use a variety of escape clauses when the Anachronism Police visit my layout...


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## wolfeinmane (Feb 8, 2012)

Very cool that you figured it out though. Mine has the same tiny allen screws that were frozen with years of moisture exposure, and the jeweler's screwdriver just wouldn't budge them. I had to cut the facade to get the flex and assemby out intact. Can you put some foam in the motor housing to cut down on the noise?


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## Oboy Railroads (Feb 10, 2012)

I always like the look of the Atlas turntables for some reason. It reminds me of my start in Model Railroading. My first impressions of the hobby were from 1950s "How To" books given to me by others. Some of those books were Atlas books. The old Atlas turntable just makes me think of those old days when I could buy one of those virtually indestructable Athearn F2 diesels for $15. I'd only have to mow three lawns to be able to buy one.

But what I find interesting is that after all these years Atlas has not improved their product with regard to the noise problem on the turntables. I finally tried an HO Atlas one in 1988. It was convienient and affordable but squealed so loudly and no effort to tweak or lubricate the thing ever improved it. I finally dumped it. I was 23, impatient and thought the noise to be a negative reflection on my "craftsmanship"..... Stupid kid

I always liked most Atlas stuff. Their older engines with Rocco innards were some of the best. I still have a couple of HO scale ALCO RS-1s an RS-3 and an S-2 from 20+ years ago. I'm just surprised to read that after my experience with their turntable 24 years ago that the product hasn't been improved at all.


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

xrunner said:


> I've got another idea I will try later today. It comes from the auto/car audio industry. It may help. Will report results.
> 
> 
> 
> My gosh jz, how much slower would a person want to turn the thing? hwell:


However slow I decide. But then because I control it with variable DC rather than fixed DC I can control it's speed. I mean, if I want realism at the moment, I'll let it crawl. But if I need to move the engines out of the area and across it to be able to work on something there, then I have the electronic ability to turn the speed up. This is why I wired it the way I did. 

Routerman


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Oboy Railroads said:


> But what I find interesting is that after all these years Atlas has not improved their product with regard to the noise problem on the turntables.


It's the motor mostly. I just pulled the belt and it still screams like a stuck pig. It would be even louder if I hadn't put the sonic mat on the motor housing. I'd suggest even more sonic mat on the housing and wrapping it in some kind of thin insulation. I wonder if a small motor supplier wold have a quieter motor available. I mean I don't think they have chosen some kind of one-of-a-kind motor design for it. I bet the motor dimensions are the same as many other small motors.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think the issue is the motor mount, it needs isolation from the frame.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I think the issue is the motor mount, it needs isolation from the frame.


I wouldn't doubt that that is the issue.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Works for me...


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