# Talk to me about Atlas Mark IV turnouts



## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

So I'm in the process of building a new layout (yay!) in my recently finished basement train room (12x14, by the way) and am appalled at the cost of Peco. A Peco small radius insulfrog turnout at modeltrainstuff is 17.00. Add another 13.00 (or so) for the PL-11 side mounted switch machine (not going the under table route, period.), and whatever it could cost for a switch to activate the thing, and you're looking at a $30.00 plus turnout. Sorry baseball fans, I'm simply NOT going to do that. 

I understand completely the cost vs. quality argument, but it also boils down to how much space Peco will use up. 

My plan is, essentially, two big parallel loops with double ended staging yards to park the trains while one is out chasing its tail. With 4 tracks per yard, the Pecos' eat up a lot of linear space, leaving the last track long enough to hold a loco and maybe 4 cars. 

So, not wanting to go Snap Switch, but wanting a compact turnout, what are your thoughts about the #4 custom line mark IV turnout from Atlas, powered by Caboose Hobbies manual switch stands? 

Unfortunately, Atlas doesn't provide a printable template of these turnouts like Peco does, so it's difficult to compare their geometries.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Well since you are planning on using manual turnout control you could do this ..costs about $3-$4 per turnout.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I used that same set up back in the 80's, worked great for me. I used custom line #6 with 202s ground throws on the main, and custom line #4's with 202s everywhere else. 
The snap switch has a sharper angle than the Mk 4.
I know that I'm kind of the red headed step child here regarding turnouts, but I'm a snap switch man. They work great for me. Apparently by accident!:laugh:


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

I used custom line No6 switches on my layout, along with the caboose sprung ground throws, and am happy with these ...
I did do some minor modifications on the Atlas, to ensure reliabilty, but mine were ebay finds .. some wheres around two dozen switches or so


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Smokinapankake said:


> .......what are your thoughts about the #4 custom line mark IV turnout from Atlas, powered by Caboose Hobbies manual switch stands?


My thoughts are: that's the way I'm doing it on my new layout. I never had any issues with that setup on the old layout using the #4 custom line switches. I am going to move to #6 switches as well, as space allows.


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## DougL (Feb 2, 2016)

Atlas works well, Peco works better. I have both. 

if I want a manual Atlas switch that I can reach, I bend a piece of .025 steel wire into a Z shaped spring. I drill a hole into a tie next to the throwbar, and the Z-shaped spring tails are pushed down into the throwbar and adjacent tie.


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## DougL (Feb 2, 2016)

*snap spring for Atlas switches*

Atlas works well, Peco works better. I use both. 

if I want a manual Atlas switch that I can reach, I bend a piece of .025 steel wire into a Z shaped spring. I drill a hole into a tie next to the throwbar, and the Z-shaped spring tails are pushed down into the throwbar and adjacent tie.

I push the points with my finger.

My second method for manual Atlas switches is a DPDT slide switch buried in the top of the layout. Drill a hole throch the side of the slide switch handle. Run .025 wire from the slide switch to the turnout. Put a Z in the wire to adjust the length. Fasten to the throwbar.

The wire runs over the the surface. After scenicking, it is invisible or looks like a pipe.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Turnout choices*



Smokinapankake said:


> So I'm in the process of building a new layout (yay!) in my recently finished basement train room (12x14, by the way) and am appalled at the cost of Peco. A Peco small radius insulfrog turnout at modeltrainstuff is 17.00. Add another 13.00 (or so) for the PL-11 side mounted switch machine (not going the under table route, period.), and whatever it could cost for a switch to activate the thing, and you're looking at a $30.00 plus turnout. Sorry baseball fans, I'm simply NOT going to do that.
> 
> I understand completely the cost vs. quality argument, but it also boils down to how much space Peco will use up.
> 
> ...


Smokinapankake;

Atlas turnouts are not evil, just inferior in design to the Peco (and some others). If you're interested in what those design differences are; look at a previous post from Paulrail, in the "Beginner Q&A" section of this forum, and my first reply. What the differences accomplish is to reduce derailments,and to keep on doing that without much maintenance. 
This is particularly true when compared to the Atlas "Snap Track" variety, which you are wisely avoiding.
All the better quality brands of commercial turnouts (Peco, Micro Engineering, Walthers/Shinohara, are expensive, approx $30 ea. retail. 
I'm an N scaler who doesn't use the Atlas Mk.4 or custom line, so I won't attempt to comment on them. I have made my own turnouts for years, initially because what I wanted was not commercially available; and also because I could make any size/configuration that was needed and because I could make them for about $5ea. By working slowly and carefully, I was also able to make my turnouts very reliable; better than some commercial ones. 
I hear you about the yard ladders occupying a lot of real estate. This is true of most any quality commercial turnout brand. They are designed somewhat like the real thing, and those things do not have sharp curves or angles built in. This is why the Pecos need more room than the Atlas, when arranged in a yard throat ladder. Unfortunately, this is also an area where using bigger frog#, (and real estate gobbling), turnouts are most needed. Backing a train through a series of sharp turnouts invites derailments.
I was able to compress the length of a six track yard ladder six inches. (in N scale. HO would shave off approx one foot.) by making overlapping turnouts ( frog of one turnout very close to the points of the next one). In this way, the frog#s could all stay the same, yet the overall length of the yard ladder was reduced. You can do a form of this length reduction, with commercial turnouts, by trimming off the end pieces, and keeping the points/frog/guardrail area. This is a delicate operation and can lead to some unreliable track arrangements, and sometimes, destroyed expensive turnouts.. Think before doing. No one can cram a long yard throat with sharp angles of curvature, into a tiny space; and have everything work well. Trying to do something along those lines is the most serious, and unfix-able fault in the Atlas Snap Switch's geometry. 
There is a downside to most things, and that includes making your own turnouts. It takes a week to build your first turnout, and at least 2-3 days for subsequent builds. Also the $5 price is dependent on making a dozen or so, as the initial cost of materials is high. Making one or two probably wouldn't save any money. You would be better off buying, instead of building, in that case. This is not a problem for most model railroads as they usually require turnouts in fairly hefty numbers. 

Just another option;

Traction Fan

Below are some photos of turnouts, and crossings I've made.


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

Good information all, thanks for your replies. On second thought, if I'm going to use manual control, wouldn't the Peco turnout, with its spring loaded points, be about the same cost as an Atlas with a caboose hobbies throw? And offer better reliability in the long run?

Not to mention the insulfrog feature that kills the current depending on how the switch is aligned....


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Manual control and insulfrog*



Smokinapankake said:


> Good information all, thanks for your replies. On second thought, if I'm going to use manual control, wouldn't the Peco turnout, with its spring loaded points, be about the same cost as an Atlas with a caboose hobbies throw? And offer better reliability in the long run?
> 
> Not to mention the insulfrog feature that kills the current depending on how the switch is aligned....


 Smokinapankake;

The spring action built into the Peco, and its notched stock rails, do a lot to keep trains on track, and on the selected route. This is one of the reasons many modelers prefer them. Very few derailments.
Manual linkages can be made cheaply from many things. Music wire in a tube is my choice, wood dowels, automobile choke cables, (yes you can still buy them!) even coat hangar wire can be used. My friend Dave has a little N scale layout that uses push/pull metal rods to operate a slide switch, and a spring link to the turnout's throw bar. Works great, cheap, reliable.
A word on insulfrog Vs. electrofrog Pecos. The company sells both, and both are well made and have the same spring action feature. The electrofrog version has an all metal frog that can be electrically switched to provide continuous power all the way through the turnout, on all rails. (This is what the slide switches on Dave's layout are for.) I use this same system on each turnout that I make.
The insulfrog is plastic, and constitutes an electrical dead spot. The wheels can not pick up power from the frog at all. With all wheel pick up locos, this is usually not a problem. Even when a wheel is on the dead frog, other wheels are still picking up power from rails further back. An eight wheel pick up diesel will glide on through an insulfrog turnout with no stalling. All locos, especially old, short ones, and some steam locos; do not have true all wheel pick up. Some of these may stall or hesitate on an insulfrog. That's why I build all my turnouts with an electrically live, metal, switched, frog. They will work well with any locomotive. The same system, is used in Peco's electrofrog turnouts.
I can't answer your cost question, since I don' use the caboose industry ground throws, or Peco turnouts. A simple arithmetic price comparison should answer that one, though.
Initially, you voiced a concern about physically fitting Peco turnouts into you space. Have you resolved that problem?

Good luck with what ever you decide to use;

Traction Fan


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm on vacation right now so I don't have real good internet access or an abundance of time to look around; just kind of going off what I remember from my initial research of a few weeks ago. I'm familiar with the differences between insulfrog and electro frog, and in light of my planned operating scheme, I think the insulfrog will be the better choice (I'm running all diesels, all wheel pickup, single train at a time on 2 or 3 electrically separate loops). Guess I'll just have to wait until I get back home to make a decision.....


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

One other thing about the Peco Insulfrog turnouts,
they are power routing. Any stub spurs will lose
power when the turnout is set straight and vs/vs.
If you want spurs always powered, a drop from
the frog rail will do it. No insulated joiner required.

Don


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

Don,

This is exactly what I want. I have decided to use the Peco small radius (because it has a 24" radius through the turnout) insulfrog turnouts and will likely be placing an order this week.....


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