# Digitrax Routes - Do Not Work



## xrunner

Can't get them to work - period.

For my test, I have used Route #1 (Er 1) and a Top Address of 50 (t) (virtual address).

Then as the next address under it, I used 1 (t)
and next address 2 (t)

Both 1 & 2 are fully functioning turnouts.

Nothing happens. I have set OpSw 26 (enable routes). I have also cleared it, and set it again. I have also used OpSw #37 Clear all routes and re-entered the route. I have tried other virtual addresses. Nothing happens to turnouts 1 or 2 when I either select Sw 50 (t) or (c).

I do see lights blink on all the DS64s when I use Sw 50. I can also switch the turnouts 1 & 2 perfectly on their own, along with other turnouts that I have wired up, using the DT402. I have read and re-read the manual and I can find nothing I have done wrong. I can find nothing more of help on the Digitrax site.

2 hours spent and nothing. Someone here have any clue?


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## xrunner

I am getting ready to send Digitrax a tech support request as shown below, if the experts here have no idea. I did get a couple of routes to work after clearing the entire memory of the DCS100, but still all routes that should work do not. It's really amazing. It can't be this hard. Can't be. I sent a PM to NIMT asking him to try a route on his system.

Can anyone else try a very simple route on their system and let me know what happens? I want to know if I'm going insane or not.

*****

I have 22 Kato turnouts numbered 1 through 22, Turnouts #1 and #2 are wired to a DS52, the rest go to DS64s connected to the Loconet. All the turnouts function flawlessly when switched individually with the DT402/DS100.

I have set OpSw 26c, and 31c.

I made a route #1 with a top address 50t. I assigned it turnouts 1t, 2t. I then made a route #2 with a top address 51c with turnouts 1c, 2c. Both these routes work.

I then made a route #3 with a top address 52t. I assigned it turnouts 13t, 15t. This route does not work, even though the turnouts can be switched individually just fine.

If I add either turnout 13 or 15 to the end of the other routes that do work - #1 with top 50t or #2 with top 51c, turnouts 1 and 2 still switch but the added turnout 13 or 15 will not switch. 

*50t
1t
2t
13t <-- does not switch*

Remember, 13 and 15 work OK when switched individually, as do the other turnouts wired to the DS64s.

Here's the kicker - If I add turnout 13 or 15 between 1 and 2 like this -

*50t
1t
13t <-- kills route at this point
2t*

#13 (or #15) kills the route after #1 switches. Only #1 will switch if I do this.

I have set and reset OpSw #37 (clear all routes - which did clear the routes), OpSw #26, OpSw #31. I have even removed the battery from the DCS100 to reset it, and started over, but I cannot get the routes to work with turnouts connected to the DS64s. I have read and re-read the manual and searched online for an answer. I do not want to set up routes in the DS64s. I want the DCS100 to handle them as it should be doing properly.


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## NIMT

Xrunner, 
I'm thinking your problem lies in your route #'s. The manual say's you can only use Route #'s from 01 to 32...So if your using route # 52 your confusing the system. Try changing the route # and see what you get.


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> Xrunner,
> I'm thinking your problem lies in your route #'s. The manual say's you can only use Route #'s from 01 to 32...So if your using route # 52 your confusing the system. Try changing the route # and see what you get.


No, no, that's not the route number - that's the Top Switch in the route. The route numbers I'm using for testing are 1, 2, 3, 4. I'm using non-existent virtual switch numbers for the Top Switches as the DCS100 manual specifically says you can do, and which work with a route using switches 1 and 2.

Example - (this one works)

Route #1

Top Switch 50 (t) <-- virtual switch #
1(t)
2(t)

^^^ This route executes perfectly

Route #3

Top Switch 52(t) <-- virtual switch #
13(t)
14(t)

^^^ This route does nothing!

Do you have any DS64s wired to the Loconet? Can you make a simple route in the DCS100 and execute it for me as a sanity check using switches wired to the DS64s? The only routes that work here use switches #1 and #2 which are wired to the DS52 - I don't know if that's a coincidence or if it means something deeper in this whole damn fiasco.


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## NIMT

OK sorry miss read... still working on it.


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> OK sorry miss read... still working on it.


Thanks, I appreciate your taking the time to try it. Isn't anyone else here familiar with routes? I find that hard to believe!

From the section on routes in the manual -

*15.4.2 external Routes
The DS64 stationary decoder can also generate cascade switch message commands or routes independently of the DCS100’s capability. See the appropriate manuals of these products for further details.
*

Nowhere in the manual does it say what turnout controller you can or can't use. It just says that you can also use DS64s to generate routes if you want to because they have that capability. I should be able to use any loconet turnout controller that I want to from any manufacturer. The DCS100 sends out switch commands, but they aren't "seeking" DS64s or DS52s or any particular controller. There is something either left unsaid in the manual or some strange set of criteria has come together to disrupt this route setup.


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## xrunner

OK I got a heavy-duty hammer - Loconet-Checker.

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/trachsler/

I'm using this program to analyze the system. Will report if anything interesting found.


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## xrunner

What I did last night was use the nice user interface of the Loconet Checker program to enter routes in the DS64s and that works (why doesn't Digitrax provide a tool like that?). It's much easier than trying it with the throttle, basically blind as to everything you have entered. I recommend you get a program like this if you have a PR3.

Here's the answer from a Digitrax user's group as to why the DCS100 routes don't work over Loconet. I guess nobody here understood it either.  Basically, Loconet messages are not equal to track messages. The route from the DCS100 comes out as track messages. Now what pisses me off greatly is that Digitrax doesn't explain this in the DCS100 manual at all. I'm going to write them this morning as if I don't know the answer to my problem (I already had the email as a draft from yesterday) and see what they say. 



> There are two different messaging systems in operation here - the LocoNet
> messaging system, and the NMRA-compatible track messaging system. Commands from
> a throttle or from a software program such as JMRI are sent to the command
> station using the LocoNet messaging system. The command station converts switch
> control messages on LocoNet to NMRA accessory decoder control messages on the
> track signal.
> 
> A "typical" accessory decoder will connect to the track connection and will
> decode the NMRA-compatible track signal and react to accessory decoder messages
> which are sent to any of their accessory decoder messages.
> 
> The DS64 is able to operate in this way.
> 
> But the DS64 can also operate in a way where it pays attention to LocoNet switch
> control messages, and ignore the NMRA track packet messages. In this case, the
> DS64 doesn't need to be connected to the track signal. (It does need an
> external power supply, though.) In this mode, a command station is not needed.
> 
> Doug's premise is one which seems to explain why you can control all turnouts
> using a throttle, but are only able to use the DCS100 routes to control some
> turnouts.
> 
> Under Doug's premise, all accessory decoders can be controlled using a throttle
> because all accessory decoders can see either of the two types of messages
> related to throttle-controlled switches - either the message on the NMRA track
> signal <or> the LocoNet message sent by the throttle.
> 
> Under Doug's premise, those accessory decoders which only pay attention to NMRA
> track messages will <only> see those switch control messages which are generated
> by the command station - either because the command station converted a LocoNet
> switch command to an NMRA accessory decoder control message <or> by the command
> station generating one or more NMRA accessory control messages from a route that
> has been triggered by a LocoNet switch control message.
> 
> My experiments confirm Doug's premise. I set up a NMRA DCC track packet monitor
> device. I cleared all of my DS64 routes. I closed DCS100 OpSw 26 to allow
> DCS100 routes. I created a DCS100 route using a DT400. I used JMRI to monitor
> Loconet. I triggered the route via the DT400. On LocoNet, I saw the LocoNet
> messages for the "top" switch in the route. On my NMRA DCC track packet
> monitor device, I saw a sequence of NMRA accessory decoder control messages
> which corresponded to all of the entries in the route. I did NOT see LocoNet
> messages for any of the DCS100 route entries (other than the route's top entry,
> which was sent by the throttle, to trigger the route).


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## xrunner

Just to see what would happen, I sent Digitrax my problem description this morning, seeing as I know what the problem was, I want to see if they understand their own system. So far here are the responses back from Digitrax support -

*email #1: Have you tried with Option Switch 31=t and not c?*

I said yes I did.
*
email#2: All necessary information on programming routes is included in the manual but the instructions must be followed step by step with nothing left out or changed. See the attached help/example. *

I again wrote back and said I have followed the instructions correctly. I gave them enough info in the problem description to solve it and so far the guy writing me back is clueless. What a shame. They don't even know how their own system works together.

We'll see how far I let this go before I tell him what he should know.


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## NIMT

I tried to do some route setup's manually but got lost in the setup.
I don't even do programing manually any more I use JMRI for everything.
Glad you found the problem!


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> I don't even do programing manually any more I use JMRI for everything.


Spoiled.


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## Big Windy

Wow! I learned something,two methods of control and Digitrax didn't put a little blurb out. I am just starting to put together my first Dcc layout and was thinking I should just stick with Digitrax stuff because it would work together better and have some technical back up. The hell with it !! I'm gonna do Tam valley servos, PSX power managment etc. I will be an electrical genius by the time I'm done mutttering crazy talk lol I'm glad you figured it out !! Somehow what you posted will help me in the future.


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## xrunner

Big Windy said:


> Wow! I learned something,two methods of control and Digitrax didn't put a little blurb out. I am just starting to put together my first Dcc layout and was thinking I should just stick with Digitrax stuff because it would work together better and have some technical back up. The hell with it !! I'm gonna do Tam valley servos, PSX power managment etc. I will be an electrical genius by the time I'm done mutttering crazy talk lol I'm glad you figured it out !! Somehow what you posted will help me in the future.


I'm still working with the Digitrax tech support as if I haven't solved the problem, because I find it utterly amazing that they, who built the system, can't understand why it won't operate as I have it hooked up. It's frankly pretty sad. The only way I found out is from another Digitrax support group, who seem to know the system far better than the manufacturer!

In my last email to them last night I said this (as if I haven't provided the needed information already) -



> Remember, my DS52 is connected to track power and gets it's commands from the track. My DS64s are not connected to the track and get their commands from Loconet. Are you SURE the route commands from the DCS100 - in full - go to the DS64s in complete form this way?


Sooner or later I will tell them why it won't work, but they really need to learn a lesson about their tech support and realize that something is lacking. Amazing.


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## waltr

I use and like most of the Digitrax products but their documents do leave a bit to be desired. Also some of their products (like the PM42 power management board) use old technology such as relays for Auto-reverse.

I too am using Tam Valley products where it doesn't need to connect to the centralized communications of LOCONet. The Tam Valley Frog Juices work very well and are silent when switching unlike the PM42 which I can hear across the room.


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## xrunner

waltr said:


> I use and like most of the Digitrax products but their documents do leave a bit to be desired.


Well, it doesn't make much sense for the routes to work the way they do from a top-down perspective. Why should it require any more thought from a hobbyist than wiring up their devices with Loconet and expecting one to talk to the other without hidden limitations THAT AREN'T IN THE MANUAL? 

Ahem.

Is that too much to ask? No.

Addendum: Why oh why not update the manuals _online_ with the latest clarifications that would help hobbyists understanding?


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## waltr

xrunner said:


> Addendum: Why oh why not update the manuals _online_ with the latest clarifications that would help hobbyists understanding?


Yep, or at least publish some additional app notes to fill in the details on advanced capabilities.


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## oldSmokey

Hi xrunner,

I think it depends who gets your email as I know there are quite a few Knowledgeable techos' there and they have helped me out a few times, then there are the other one, (the ones that their wives have to put on the bus each morning to get to work) My last encounter was with the latter, this was regarding a sound decoder, after 3 emails and getting nowhere fast, they said just send it back, so I said it was costing me to post it back, they said keep it and they would send me another one, I then wrote, can you ask AJ if he could give me a Digitrax pin, 
I received both the pin and a new decoder, it took awhile but I got there. 

I'm very interested in following your saga, please keep us informed and good luck.


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## xrunner

oldSmokey said:


> Hi xrunner,
> I think it depends who gets your email as I know there are quite a few Knowledgeable techos' there and they have helped me out a few times, then there are the other one, (the ones that their wives have to put on the bus each morning to get to work) My last encounter was with the latter, ...


I know exactly who you are referring to. hwell:



> I'm very interested in following your saga, please keep us informed and good luck.



I will definitely do so - stay tuned ...


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## JohnAP

I guess I R still more confused. Your trying to do routes using the DCS100 and the throttle? I haven't got that far yet, but I'm also learning JMRI. Do you still have this problem if you use JMRI?


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## xrunner

JohnAP said:


> I guess I R still more confused. Your trying to do routes using the DCS100 and the throttle?


Well, the throttle is how you enter the route into the DCS100, yes. But the DCS100 only sends the top Switch number out over Loconet. The entire route from the DCS100 goes out as track packets, according to the expert I talked to on the Yahoo Digitrax support group (had to go there because no one volunteered or knew the answer here  ). That's why a DS52 will respond to the route from a DCS100, because it is connected to the track for both power and commands. If the route is entered into a DS64 (not the DCS100), then if you send out the Top switch command from the throttle the route it will work.

Look, the whole thing is stupidly designed IMHO for a hobbyist that doesn't need to delve into these gory details. It should just work with the parts connected by Loconet.



> I haven't got that far yet, but I'm also learning JMRI. Do you still have this problem if you use JMRI?


Not yet but I did use a program called Loconet Checker that enabled me to enter the routes into the DS64s using the computer screen, which is way better than using a throttle and not seeing what it is you have already entered into the DS64. Digitrax should be supplying these types of utilities to the customers. 

I just don't know about Digitrax sometimes. I've called them before and the guy in support acted like a Royal Tool. The manuals are not clear and need more information in them, like the situation I encountered. They need to supply computer program utilities for users. The software for the PR3 doesn't even say it's compatible with Windoze 7 64 bit (it is, but I had to research the truth before I bought it to make sure) - why don't they UPDATE the specs? Things like this just tell me that are dropping the ball all over the place.

When I bought my DCS system from Tony's trains I ordered a PR3 and he said it was backordered a month. I said that's ridiculous. He then told me that he had heard the Digitax owners were "tired of the business".


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## xrunner

Another thought I forgot to mention is the way Digitrax makes you call up the routes you create - it's not a good method because using their system you don't initiate the route using the route number - you initiate it using a "top switch".

For example if I have a route #8 and the following switches -

1,2,12,16

Guess how you call up route #8? Nope, not using the route number, you switch the top switch in the route to initiate all the switch changes, in this case switch #1. The route number really is a wasted number - you don't even really use it. What they should have done is have the route called up with ... hold for it ... the route number (duh)! In this case, call up route #8 using a route button on the throttle and entering 8. I guess it makes too much sense.

What I did in my setup is use virtual switches (you can use non-existent switch numbers as extensions of your numbering scheme) as the "top switches". For example -

Route #8 would be -

50(virtual),1,2,12,16

Then I execute the route by switching 50. In effect I use the virtual switch numbers as route numbers even though the "real" route numbers are other numbers and to me are just wasted numbers. On my diagram I just call the top switches the routes, such as RT50 and so on. Like I said, why they use route numbers and don't call up the routes with them is kinda silly.


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## dwayne29

It is sad to hear your tale of poor support. I too find the Digitrax manuals less than user-friendly.

I can tell you some stuff that does work, though.

1. All route controllers use a top address that can either be virtual or real. (Digitrax and other mfg)
2. I use DS64's to control all turnouts via Loconet. There is no connection to the track bus. Routes stored in the DS64s work flawlessly, even when operating a turnout on a different DS64.
3. I use BLOC-D8's and SRC-16's from Team Digital on the same Loconet for occupancy detection and control interface. These products have worked exactly as intended.

I had considered using the routes in the DCS100, now glad I didn't. I can confirm though that there are several other ways to achieve the control you desire by looking for Loconet Certified and not limiting yourself to Digitrax products.

I also recommend using a Locobuffer from RR-CirKits as a PC interface. Superb support and up-to-date drivers available on their website.

Finally, if you have a PC and a Locobuffer or PR3 then download JMRI. It's free, it's easy, and you will never go back to programming Loconet devices from the throttle again.

Be safe,
Dwayne A


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## NIMT

xrunner said:


> When I bought my DCS system from Tony's trains


Xrunner, 
You didn't buy a DCS system (that is a proprietary MTH system) 
You bought a DCC system!


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## xrunner

NIMT said:


> Xrunner,
> You didn't buy a DCS system (that is a proprietary MTH system)
> You bought a DCC system!


I know - I simply mis-typed it. I have too many acronyms in my head.



dwayne29 said:


> 1. All route controllers use a top address that can either be virtual or real. (Digitrax and other mfg)


Do you know why? If you have a route it makes sense to use the route number to call it up not a switch number. Why did they decide to use the first (top) switch to do it? I just don't understand their thinking.



> 2. I use DS64's to control all turnouts via Loconet. There is no connection to the track bus. Routes stored in the DS64s work flawlessly, even when operating a turnout on a different DS64.


Yes I have now put the routes into the DS64s and they work that way. But I still have Digi-nuts telling me that the DCS100 can send the full route to the DS64 in their test setup and it works! I have looked at the Loconet traffic with Loconet Checker and it verifies that the only command sent out on Loconet from the DCS100 route is the top switch! I also have people on the Yahoo Digitrax Users Group that have checked & verified the same thing. What is Digitrax problem?



> 3. I use BLOC-D8's and SRC-16's from Team Digital on the same Loconet for occupancy detection and control interface. These products have worked exactly as intended.
> 
> I had considered using the routes in the DCS100, now glad I didn't. I can confirm though that there are several other ways to achieve the control you desire by looking for Loconet Certified and not limiting yourself to Digitrax products.
> 
> I also recommend using a Locobuffer from RR-CirKits as a PC interface. Superb support and up-to-date drivers available on their website.
> 
> Finally, if you have a PC and a Locobuffer or PR3 then download JMRI. It's free, it's easy, and you will never go back to programming Loconet devices from the throttle again.


Yes JMRI - I plan on setting it up in the near future.


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## NIMT

Come on slacker install JMRI already and let the unknowns remain unknowns!


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## dwayne29

xrunner said:


> Do you know why? If you have a route it makes sense to use the route number to call it up not a switch number. Why did they decide to use the first (top) switch to do it? I just don't understand their thinking.


I won't try to figure out what goes on in the heads of bits-n-bytes guys - there's some things that I'm more comfortable not knowing. I do however recognize the flexibility in this mechanism in that it allows routes to be addressed by either a real turnout or a virtual turnout, it allows the same turnout number to have either (or both) 'closed' or 'thrown' routes, it allows nested routes, and it allows multiple route controllers to exist on the same bus. As a former bit-n-bytes guy I'd say it's an overal elegant solution. 




xrunner said:


> But I still have Digi-nuts telling me that the DCS100 can send the full route to the DS64 in their test setup and it works! I have looked at the Loconet traffic with Loconet Checker and it verifies that the only command sent out on Loconet from the DCS100 route is the top switch! I also have people on the Yahoo Digitrax Users Group that have checked & verified the same thing. What is Digitrax problem?


It may be possible that they are powering their DS64's from the track and not from isolated power supplies. This would allow the DS64 to get both the track bus commands and the loconet commands. If this is not the case I would refer back to what my boss told me when I was unable to accept a 'truth' delivered by my company.
1. Cry me a river.
2. Build a bridge.
3. Get over it.

Be safe.
Dwayne A


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## JohnAP

I be lurkin an takin notes! Computerized routes, switch control, occupancy detection and crossing signal control are in my plans for the future!


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## xrunner

dwayne29 said:


> If this is not the case I would refer back to what my boss told me when I was unable to accept a 'truth' delivered by my company.
> 1. Cry me a river.
> 2. Build a bridge.
> 3. Get over it.


But - I have to save the world from Digitrax!


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## JohnAP

You don't need to save the world from Digitrax, you just need to edumacate thier support people! And while your at it, include the staff at most any store you go to!


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## xrunner

Ahem - world saved from Digitrax:



> Engineering advised testing shows DCS100/DCS200 can only send route commands over the track and not over LocoNet. You can connect DS64 to track power and your routes will work and you can also use the routes in the DS64s as an option. Sorry for the confusion. I stand corrected on the limitations.
> 
> Digitrax
> Tech Support


:smokin:


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## JohnAP

Until the next issue arises!


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## oldSmokey

Hi xrunner,

Thanks for the update, will keep it in mind.


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## gdaysydney

dwayne29 said:


> It is sad to hear your tale of poor support. I too find the Digitrax manuals less than user-friendly.
> 
> 
> 3. I use BLOC-D8's and SRC-16's from Team Digital on the same Loconet for occupancy detection and control interface. These products have worked exactly as intended.
> I also recommend using a Locobuffer from RR-CirKits as a PC interface. Superb support and up-to-date drivers available on their website.
> 
> Finally, if you have a PC and a Locobuffer or PR3 then download JMRI. It's free, it's easy, and you will never go back to programming Loconet devices from the throttle again.
> 
> Be safe,
> Dwayne A


Hi, 
I have used a one BlocD8 on my loconet with great success. I have since bought two more but despite all attempts have not been able to set them up such that so that they have different primary addresses.
To clarify :
Factory default is Address( primary) #1 input addresses #1 to #8 
I can use "smart programming" on a second BlocD8 to change the input addresses # 9 to- #16 but have not been able to find a way to change the primary address to a different number so that I can use my third BlocD8.
I use Decoder Pro 3 for programming. 

What am I missing? any help would be appreciated.

Dave


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## dwayne29

gdaysydney said:


> What am I missing? any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave,

Don't know if you have this info already.... I found the address needs to be setup from the programming track before more routine changes could be written via loconet by JMRI. You can still use JRMI to do the initial setup, just from the programming track.

Have you looked at this info doc from Team Digital?

http://www.teamdigital1.com/resources/documents/Programming-wih-JMRI.pdf​
Using this instruction I was able to setup both the BlocD8 and SRC16 devices.

Good luck.
Dwayne A


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## gdaysydney

Thanks very much Dwayne 

I'll let you know how I get on


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## burbankbill

hello;
I went around and around with Digitrax on this very subject. Setting up routes through the comand center doesnt work. Routes have to be set up with the DS 64s. I called it a comand center because I fogot the number of the box DSC something. I have a chief setup and could never get it to work. Sent it back to Digitrax twice and they said nothing was wrong with it. So I just set them through the DS64s.

Bill


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