# LateStarter, I’m confused….,



## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

I remember seeing this photo of new additions, the 48 new containers…








And tonight, I was checking out Aurora Miniatures Facebook page, and saw the identical photo from there website. Are you just taking photos off the internet to buildup your posts count?


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Yeah, that's it I guess...
My helper was unpacking an order we received, and sent me that photo.
Not sure why.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I don’t see the logic. Photo or no photo, a post still counts. 
Is there some sort of Post Count Contest I’m unaware of? 
LS does a lot of work from what I can tell. He doesn’t seem to be a couch potato. He certainly has a lot of older work. 
He also gets asked a lot of questions I’m sure, and he’s kind enough to actually answer them. 
And unlike most of us, he has helpers and has a sort of production line method whereas most modelers still do things pre Henry Ford style.
And now, threads are being created with the intent to target and make personal attacks, which doesn’t do any individual any good, nor benefit MTF as a community.

Never thought I’d miss being a moderator.


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## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

That makes perfect sense. I don’t how many times when I get something new, and want to share my purchase with a friend, instead of taking a photo of what I brought, I go though manufacturers Facebook posts, and crop a photo to send to him…..cheers🙄


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

As we have seen recently, it’s always best to take your own photos, and save them, as using others photos always has the possibilty that something is not on the up and up…..

But I do know fish when I smell it…


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> As we have seen recently, it’s always best to take your own photos, and save them, as using others photos always has the possibilty that something is not on the up and up…..
> 
> But I do know fish when I smell it…


Relying on others to take photos for you is a bad idea too. 
That said; there are models that I’ve built & the only photo I currently have of it is on JL Innovative's official website. The model is 90 mins away on my dads layout. Now it’s possible somebody saw my model on their website, was inspired, and made one almost identical. And then posted it here. 
Is that probable? NOPE!
Is it possible? Sure.

Make no mistake, I’m not defending anybody here. I’m just considering ALL possibilities, even remote ones, and not going to conclude it must be any certain one. The most common is most likely, but disregarding less common possibilities is a recipe for compound mistakes. Above all, I won’t rule out that perhaps I am wrong myself (in my analysis). I don’t believe I am, but won’t rule out the possibility. We humans are wrong more often than we’d like to admit.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

LateStarter said:


> Yeah, that's it I guess...
> My helper was unpacking an order we received, and sent me that photo.
> Not sure why.


Your "helper"? What is that even supposed to mean?

Are ANY of your posts actually your own material?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That hopper car had the exact same weathering, the exact same road number, no Accurail trucks as was claimed (they are KD’s), photographed on the exact same diorama/layout than it was back in 2015, before he was even a member….then now conveniently, claims he does not own it anymore…..

That is not a simple “mistake”….

Then 2 threads, which contained hundreds of picture posts in them, were taken off the forum before anyone could do anymore analysis on the pics….or was it determined that all the pics were stolen….?

I smell fish….but luckily, the damage has been done, for those with proper eyesight…..


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

He eluded at one point that he'd been sick and in hp, this was months or maybe a year or more ago. Anyway, I don't see the point on dwelling upon this.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> That hopper car had the exact same weathering, the exact same road number, no Accurail trucks as was claimed (they are KD’s), photographed on the exact same diorama/layout than it was back in 2015, before he was even a member….
> 
> That is not a simple “mistake”….
> 
> Then conveniently he does not own it anymore….I smell fish….


Posting the wrong photos based on memory or thumbnail determination would explain all of that. As neither has anything to gain by lying, is most likely what happened… as I’ve said repeatedly in multiple unnecessary threads. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems the most sensible explanation. 
Everyone can read my position on the dispute, and how I came to that position. 
I see no need to discuss it further.
It’s up to those directly involved to resolve it when they’re ready to. 
* Others throwing gasoline on the flames *helps those of us not involved how exactly? 
As far as I’m concerned, public discussion is over… at least repeating my 2 cents.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

One could watermark all photos -- but these can probably be removed for the determined. Anyway it's not worth it. The information that flows through here is ephemeral in nature, mostly. I don't remember specific photos etc at all.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I well remember on this forum some years back when a young gentleman introduced himself as a new member, and that he'd like to show his latest acquisition, a Walther's FP40...only I had recently replaced a broken plow with one I had made from a bit of plastic window blind.

I smiled as I typed in, "Yes, I remember that one, I had to fix the pilot. I can show you a video of it running if you'd like."

Amazing how fast he disappeared...

There are several of my photos being used on model tech found and how tos...I smile at my notariety, and, when possible, reply with quotes to reinforce who the owner is with clues and identifiers that mark it as mine that aren't seen in the photos. It's just not worth the work to pursue more than that as far as I'm concerned.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And another blind eye is turned…..

On the plus side, it’s good to know that if I ever do anything unscrupulous, I too will get away with it….. 😁


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I don't see it that way.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I do want to provide some balance, if anyone feels despite my statements, that I am defending LS or disregarding “theft.”

I’m personally, and professionally, had intellectual property that I co-own stolen… with potential financial loss. In that case it was material that I own 25% of the Copyright to.
A business partner at the time, took it upon himself to enter into contractual discussions with Verizon Media to reprint the material, without having discussed it first with me. In fact he never mentioned it to me. I found out and brought it up.
Ultimately it resulted in no business deal with Verizon, which wasn’t my goal, and it ended our business partner arrangement, also not what I wanted. I simply wanted him to respect Copyright Law, and me as a partial owner of that property.

So I’ve been there, with legal documents in play, reputations, possible court filings, and an obscene amount of potential profit, or financial theft at stake. I’m still owed $33,000 from a related incident prior to that, but I’ve accepted that I’ll never see a dime. I wasn’t about to let that amount jump to hundreds of thousands of dollars, possible resulting Hollywood contracts, etc.
So yes, I get it. I know how Bobby feels. Painfully so. I wanted to share this private info just in case anyone thinks that I don’t understand his position.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have models to work on, etc.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

As soon as you post on this private forum you don't own -- you lose ownership of that info. that's the way it works. if you don't like that aspect of it -- don't post. If someone else takes your not owned by you information and repackages it... then that's what they can do.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So you condone someone posting pics of someone’s else’s work, and blatanly claiming it as their own?

Where are your ethics man! I see none….


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

No but I don't see that there's any way to ensure it not occurring. All one can do is retain a certain healthy skepticism, although I'm open to ideas otherwise.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

My point is….if it occurs, as you say it will as there is nothing to stop it, then administer the appropriate punishment….suspending or banning should be the choices….this should not be taken lightly….one day, you could be the victim…..


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Old_Hobo said:


> And another blind eye is turned…..
> 
> On the plus side, it’s good to know that if I ever do anything unscrupulous, I too will get away with it….. 😁


Not blind...tired...one must choose one's battles when one reaches a certain age.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Well what's the rules say? I mean I don't own the place, this kind of thing seems up to the owners on whether its actionable or not. I feel the point has been made overall. Bare minimum all future posts are weighed against this issue. On the other hand there was an explanation given although it wasn't completely convincing but not outside the realm of possibilities either. Anyway who do we assign to go back and find all the photos and match them up against all known internet locations to figure this out!? And then what? I'm willing to at least try the "ok is this yours or someone else's?" approach because I have no power here to do anything else. (that I can think of but I'm open...)


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, you know what happens when people are “tired” of something and don’t care to defend what’s right….


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Severn said:


> Well what's the rules say? I mean I don't own the place, this kind of thing seems up to the owners on whether its actionable or not. I feel the point has been made overall. Bare minimum all future posts are weighed against this issue. On the other hand there was an explanation given although it wasn't completely convincing but not outside the realm of possibilities either. Anyway who do we assign to go back and find all the photos and match them up against all known internet locations to figure this out!? And then what? I'm willing to at least try the "ok is this yours or someone else's?" approach because I have no power here to do anything else. (that I can think of but I'm open...)


I’ll volunteer for that task….and however it would turn out, I would defend, because if a blind eye is always turned, well, you know what happens….history is full of examples, no matter how seemingly minor….

*Someone* is not telling the truth in this, and that should not be swept under the rug….
We’ve all seen the consequences of that happening recently…..  

As for the rules, well, we all have to live with what we do, however unethical, even of it’s not written in the “rules”….this kind of action shouldn’t have to be written, it should be ingrained in your right and wrong ethics….ya just don’t do it!


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I think you're right in the ideal. But pragmatically I don't know how to ensure each post is not- cribbed from someplace else. As for photo matching... you need some AI to help you here.









How to Do a Reverse Image Search From Your Phone


Google's reverse image search is a breeze on a desktop, but what about when you're on a mobile device? Google, Bing, and others have options.




www.pcmag.com





maybe has some info -- i skimmed it -- ethically honestly.


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## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

It’s not a big deal using someone’s photo, as long as credit is given. I’m not saying you need to document every detail. A simple “stock photo” would suffice, instead of misleading everyone with your “purchase”. It was pure coincidence that I was checking the announcement for a new loco by Aurora, and scrolled down and saw there container announcement. I only remembered LateStarters post (photo) because of the sheer volume of containers he said he brought…is everything he posts his, or someone’s else’s work.…cheers☕🍩


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I clearly remember Bobby’s (as Tankcarsrule) original post about this car in 2015, and made comments praising the great detail work he did to it…. Little did I know it would turn up 6 years later, with someone else claiming the project….that just doesn’t sit well with me, and we should endeavour to know the truth, don’t you think?

Otherwise, everything that the alleged individual posts from hereon in is subject, in my mind, to be suspect….


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Old_Hobo said:


> Well, you know what happens when people are “tired” of something and don’t care to defend what’s right….


They have more energy left for more important battles...for me, model trains is a hobby, not a full contact sport.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

LateStarter said:


> Yeah, that's it I guess...
> My helper was unpacking an order we received, and sent me that photo.
> Not sure why.


Seriously? This is your explanation?
I have read many of your numerous threads and posts with great benefit. There is a lot of informative and inspirational material in them.
You are one of the few Premier members of this forum.
Come on, LS. We have spent a few hours reading your stuff. I think you owe us more than this.
“Say it ain’t so, Joe”.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Maybe he should get better helpers….clearly the one he has has not helped anything…..


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

shaygetz said:


> They have more energy left for more important battles...for me, model trains is a hobby, not a full contact sport.


Well, me, I like to keep in fighting shape….never know when it’ll come in handy…..


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

OilValleyRy said:


> Posting the wrong photos based on memory or thumbnail determination would explain all of that. As neither has anything to gain by lying, is most likely what happened… as I’ve said repeatedly in multiple unnecessary threads. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems the most sensible explanation.


I'm sorry, but I don't see how someone could "forget" that some photos he found online weren't actually a project he did himself.

This thread is a another case of LateStater being "fake": Freelanced flatcar load (and other loads)

At least some of the photos on that thread are cribbed from a facebook group called "Freight Load Modelers-Railroads", from postings from AT LEAST THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE. While LS could have conceivable been any one of them (he doesn't actually provide his real name here), I'm pretty sure he's not all three of them.



OilValleyRy said:


> LS does a lot of work from what I can tell.


Apparently not as much as it would seem, since many of his posts are blatantly showing other people's images and work and passing it off as his own.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

OilValleyRy said:


> Posting the wrong photos based on memory or thumbnail determination would explain all of that. As neither has anything to gain by lying, is most likely what happened…


Nothing to gain? Only the addulation, the “atta boys”, the “like” count, the perception of “I am great, do what I do”…..shall I go on?

Heck, even I was a fan, but that ended yesterday….fool me once, shame on you…..fool me twice, shame on me…..

And, judging by the amount on PM’s I have received on this issue, I know I am not alone….


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

cv_acr said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't see how someone could "forget" that some photos he found online weren't actually a project he did himself.


Well I don’t see how a lot of mistakes happen in the world, but they do happen despite my not seeing how. From entering a freeway using an exit ramp, to a surgeon amputating the wrong limb…. Mistakes happen. Because people struggle to see how they did happen doesn’t mean they don’t happen. Interestingly, in point of fact, I don’t see how that fact of life is arguable? 
Nevertheless, I still fail to see or hear any reason that either Bobby or LS would intentionally lie. At this point, I don’t know which has suffered greater. I think it was handled poorly, blown out of proportion, etc.

If everyone wants to form teams and do the whole high school clique rival thing, good luck with that, but I doubt many joined for that purpose. Being new here myself, I find myself wondering if I want to be a member based on how others are currently acting. Jury is still out on whether or not I stick around, it’s really going to be based on how this “faction” type atmosphere devolves.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

I don't understand the psychology of it, but I've seen it before.

Some guy was posting my (railfan) photos in a certain facebook group, no credit and completely changed the location information to look like it was taken somewhere else, and position it to look like his posts.

And no, it wasn't a case of "I forgot where I found this, but here's a cool picture". He posted at least a half dozen images, all of which had been originally posted online together, at the same time, and _LESS THAN 12 HOURS EARLIER_. They weren't even 24 hours old from pressing the camera shutter button. So he knew exactly what site he sourced them from, which had detailed date/location/credit information attached to each photo, and deliberately posted a whole "set" of them (in individual posts to this group for each photo), and CHANGED the photo information.

Definitely called him out and I'm not sure whether he got kicked from the group or not, but his photo posts stopped.

Still don't get it though. Is getting the attention that important?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yeah, making mistakes is human, and common, but trying to pass off deliberate actions as “mistakes” as the reason, well, that is just despicable….


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

OilValleyRy said:


> I think it was handled poorly, blown out of proportion, etc.


Yes, Bobby doesn't seem to react well, or really know how forums work. Posting at least three different separate threads complaining about one, was unnecessary. However it was easy to show that LS is the one presenting someone else's work as his own, if Bobby would just learn to actually paste a link instead of "go look at the thread with X title". Paste the link to the old content, or other pages with the content, and let the evidence talk.

Why would LS lie? Again, can't explain that psychology, but It can be demonstrated that he's showing work of AT LEAST four other people and claiming it as his own. Which puts everything else he's ever posted in a suspicious light. It's really not possible to excuse it as an innocent "mistake" at this point.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Nothing to gain? Only the addulation, the “atta boys”, the “like” count, the perception of “I am great, do what I do”…..shall I go on?


Ah. Yeah, those are valid points that should be considered. I’ll admit I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that such trivial things are below members here. 
Don’t know who wronged who.
Caring less by the hour.
And now feeling that I need to defend my sensible reasoning & common sense. If you want to disagree with my view, fine. But to say my view cannot be right, when no one knows who what when or where… It seems the desire to look for a fight where it isn’t necessary is contagious.
If I do decide to permanently leave, it’ll be due to that sort of conduct by members who are, for all intent and purposes, bystanders.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

No where do I see any words that actually say your statement cannot be right….no where….

The choice to leave is entirely up to you….but leaving because of someone’s opinion of your view point bothers you, well, then….do what you will….

I hope you stay….to leave over something you say is so trivial, when this forum is so great, would be sad….in my opinion, of course…. 

In the end, the only thing we ever really out-right own is our opinions….👍


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## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

On a side note, Your blog (cv_acr) is very good. Just saw the lumber load, excellent modelling skills…cheers🍻


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

OilValleyRy said:


> Nevertheless, I still fail to see or hear any reason that either Bobby or LS would intentionally lie.


Well, one of them is, and it can be shown which one of them that is, and a certain pattern is emerging on at least one or two of his other threads as well. That goes a bit beyond "simple mistake".

No one can give a reason because no one but the person in question understands the reason either. I certainly don't.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

cv_acr said:


> Why would LS lie? Again, can't explain that psychology, but It can be demonstrated that he's showing work of AT LEAST four other people and claiming it as his own. Which puts everything else he's ever posted in a suspicious light. It's really not possible to excuse it as an innocent "mistake" at this point.


Yeah, I mean I hate to judge. If that pattern is what it appears to be, that doesn’t help.

I’m hesitant to provide this hypothetical on the accidental photo thing. As you may recall, I find your Wawa Station quite inspirational. While I won’t be copying it, your photos will serve as a helpful guide. 
Now let’s do the speculation thing. 
Say 7 years from now I create a thread & post photos, mistakenly including one of yours.
I am of course the kind of person who typically rechecks & edits my own posts immediately, rather than using preview. A bad habit. I would immediately make corrections the;, or if I had overlooked the mistake. That’s how I am.

Incidentally, I use a tablet, with iOS. I don’t know how this forum looks on desktops etc. When I insert a photo, a pop up appears with essentially thumbnail versions to choose from. So if I didn’t pay attention to the larger embedded view, I could see someone posting the wrong photo. For every photo I have posted here, there's an additional 20% that I deleted pre-post realizing I chose the wrong one. So between this iOS and my eyes, I’ve had probably a dozen near misses. That is somewhat particular to me. A very real possibility for me. Maybe far less possible for others. I immediately considered it as highly likely, based on my own cirmcumstances, experience, etc.
I also make a lot of typo errors. 80% of my self corrections are for that. And I’ve seen some reactions by members to typos before the typo possibility was seemingly considered? 
I guess I’m a dinosaur when it comes to being courteous, extending consideration to others, giving people the benefit of doubt in lieu of evidence, etc. Society is changing, but I try to not jump to conclusions the way the “journalists” do these days.

_shrugs_
Doesn’t really matter. I’m just another by stander gawking at the wreck in the road. Shamefully, I’ve consequently developed on opinions based on the colors folks have shown lately. Maybe those opinions are deserved, maybe they are not. I guess time will tell which members I feel are approachable & which I’d rather avoid engaging in. That’s unfortunate, but these situations inevitably have ghat consequence.
I probably will stick around, but things just feel awfully acidic right now.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

OilValleyRy said:


> If I do decide to permanently leave, it’ll be due to that sort of conduct by members who are, for all intent and purposes, bystanders.


We are not bystanders but part of a community. An essential part of the cohesiveness of any community is a sense of trust. Some of us feel we have been lied to, violating that sense of trust. 
It’s pretty simple, actually, and if you can’t understand that, maybe this community isn’t for you.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

OilValleyRy said:


> Yeah, I mean I hate to judge. If that pattern is what it appears to be, that doesn’t help.
> 
> I’m hesitant to provide this hypothetical on the accidental photo thing. As you may recall, I find your Wawa Station quite inspirational. While I won’t be copying it, your photos will serve as a helpful guide.
> Now let’s do the speculation thing.
> Say 7 years from now I create a thread & post photos, mistakenly including one of yours.


I'm pretty sure if that happened and someone said "hey that looks like Chris's project" you wouldn't double down on it though and insist that you really did happen to do the exact same project, and finish it exactly the same and shoot it at the same angle, rather than "oops, you're right I totally included the inspiration shot in there by mistake". 'Cause that's not how things went down either in the other thread.

Like I said, I don't really know what's going on or what thought process could be behind a person doing that, but all I can say is that now that he's been called out on it, a pattern is starting to reveal itself that make it hard to pass off. I don't know why anyone would do it though. It's certainly not something you'd ever expect until after someone's been shown to be doing it.

But yeah, I think everything that can be said has been well and truly run into the ground at this point and the moderators can (and probably already have) figure out what to do with both LateStarter and Bobby. (His reaction was not well handled either and I definitely agree with you on that.

I think we can let this go, and it'd probably be a good idea for the mods to just shut this thread down too. There's nothing more (if there ever was) productive to say here, and enough ruffled feathers for one day.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Bystanders….are those the people that, when they come across an accident, all stand around videoing the scene, but no one offering to help?

I despise those kinds of people….


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

prrfan said:


> We are not bystanders but part of a community. An essential part of the cohesiveness of any community is a sense of trust. Some of us feel we have been lied to, violating that sense of trust.
> It’s pretty simple, actually, and if you can’t understand that, maybe this community isn’t for you.


It’s a dispute between Bobby & LS. Those are the only two directly involved. The rest of us are not, we’re bystanders. Yeah you may feel lied to, but it’s really a dispute between them.

That aside, it’s this kind of acidic childhood playground behavior I was politely alluding to *Old_Hobo* about. That kind of behavior does not welcome new members, it’s not why they join, it drives members away. New & old ones alike. It's damaging the whole forum.
Funny, when today started I was missing my days of forum moderating, and was considering asking GunRunnerJohn if he wanted any volunteers. It’s a nice forum really.

But I think I’m going to take *prrfan* up on his cordially extended offer, whether or not it is hiw the admins feel. I’m not interested in such childishness, and directly telling me (and implying to others) that you’d be happier that I left because you cannot accept a different view point than your own is, an acceptable course of action. I don’t know if other members & admin will thank you for driving people away or not. Usually it doesn’t work that way, having been a moderator in the past.

I joined for modeling, not debate or character assassination. So I’ll go somewhere else where members are not driven off by emotional grade school playground behavior. Not interested in it, not going to continue with it.
I won’t be back, due to a hostile atmosphere and being told, point blank, to leave if I don’t like the atmosphere.
Sooooo…
Take care.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Talk about childish behavior, someone says something you don’t like so you pick up your toys and leave? 
Grow up, man.

By referring to members who have every right to speak about things on a forum in which we have participated in as bystanders you trivialize the whole membership. 
I never heard any of the mods on here call anyone bystanders. 
The members on here, and I’ll bypass myself on this, have spent many long hours sharing their knowledge and experience helping new members and beginners in getting started and succeeding in this hobby. 
They are fully participant in every single thing that makes this forum the success it is. 
The talent and knowledge on this forum is truly amazing and has been a source of inspiration for many of us. 
Yes, sometimes things get sideways and we rub each other the wrong way. But we deal with things as adults. Something you accuse others of NOT doing yet apparently don’t do yourself. 
Differences occur. I agree it’s not good for new members to see. I have brought this up several times in the past. Yet the forum lives on and we’ll talk about it as we see fit, right or wrong. 
Happy trails to you.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I think it's the way he went about it. If LS was stealing credit for others work, then that's wrong, let the mods deal with it. And it's now contained to a single thread, which is fine. But when the other guy started trashing up EVERY SINGLE THREAD that LS had been in recently, that just mucks it up for the rest of us, didn't solve anything, and forces the removal of information that was helpful to others. That's not OK.

Call me a bystander if you want, but I don't have the background, not the time and desire to find out and make an informed decision on the issue. It's not why I joined in. If I somehow had such information that might shed light on it, I would of course supply it. But I don't. The vast majority of us don't. 

Issues like this should be handled in private by the affected parties, moderators and potentially this with useful info. Don't bring drama to a train forum, keep it in the drama forum. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

prrfan said:


> Talk about childish behavior, someone says something you don’t like so you pick up your toys and leave?
> Grow up, man.
> 
> By referring to members who have every right to speak about things on a forum in which we have participated in as bystanders you trivialize the whole membership.
> ...


You gave some advice.
I decided it was wise, agreed, and took your advice.
And then you criticize me for taking the advice you gave.

I’m just sayin…. Politely with no insults, ya know? And I could, oh if ever there was a ripe opportunity to, but I’m bigger than that. Sorry, but I had to point out that you eviscerated your own credibility there all by yourself.


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Gotta love the internet, sometimes hard to know what's legit and what's not.

Bobby's accusations were concerning, but I gotta say he sure didn't do himself any favors. That 77 year-old guy was acting like a 4-year old. Then he even asked the mods to ban him, which apparently they did. It's too bad he did that.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

But was he the only banned member…..?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

OilValleyRy said:


> You gave some advice.
> I decided it was wise, agreed, and took your advice.
> And then you criticize me for taking the advice you gave.
> 
> I’m just sayin…. Politely with no insults, ya know? And I could, oh if ever there was a ripe opportunity to, but I’m bigger than that. Sorry, but I had to point out that you eviscerated your own credibility there all by yourself.


I thought you were leaving…..? 🤣 😅😂😅😂😅


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> But was he the only banned member…..?


Not sure.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Turns out Bobby wasn’t banned, as you csn see he is back…..

Can’t yet say the same for He Who Shall Not Be Named…..


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That banner doesn't yet appear under his forum name.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And yet, his latest activity was over 3 days ago, right about the time the excrement hit the fan….so he’s either suspended, too ashamed to try to explain, or got outta town on his own….


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> That banner doesn't yet appear under his forum name.


I think when you get banned, the name and account just doesn’t exist anymore, so you wouldn’t see that banner anyway….


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## LocoChris (Jun 26, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> I think when you get banned, the name and account just doesn’t exist anymore, so you wouldn’t see that banner anyway….


When Bobby got banned, it actually showed banned under his name, until he got un-banned.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Ah….so I guess there’s a difference between being banned and getting completely deleted…..


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## QueenoftheGN (Dec 10, 2019)

it shows a little “Banned” tag when you’ve been banned.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

QueenoftheGN said:


> it shows a little “Banned” tag when you’ve been banned.
> 
> View attachment 571192


I think it’s important to point out that one of our youngest members, Annie, discovered something wasn’t right with this member’s posts 10 months ago.
I’ve included a link to the thread. 

The rest of us were asleep at the switch.
Thank you, Annie. It took a lot of courage to question a long time member like that.
I’m sorry no one followed up on it.
He was protected by the umbrella of trust which seems to have evaporated. Keep up the good work. 
Dan








Weathered BB Cadiz RR


Old 'two-fer' LHS deal The only Cadiz RR model I have. Same treatment as the Walthers Trainline model. Kadees, a TruckTune, InterMountain wheels, and it's a top drawer roller/performer. I suppose if you wanted to, you could pronounce 'Cadiz' as "Kadees". BTW, it's a Kentucky railroad... not...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Wow. Even if some of his work was bogus which none of us will ever be able to prove he is still a good modeler. The only way to prove that he took the work would be if he said he did. I personally find this whole situation awfully petty. If you’re questioning something then I’m sure that he would of responded to a message instead of writing a post about him and have multiple people chewing on him. One way or the other nobody is right in this situation


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Jscullans said:


> Wow. Even if some of his work was bogus which none of us will ever be able to prove he is still a good modeler. The only way to prove that he took the work would be if he said he did. I personally find this whole situation awfully petty. If you’re questioning something then I’m sure that he would of responded to a message instead of writing a post about him and have multiple people chewing on him. One way or the other nobody is right in this situation


Gotta agree, leaves nasty taste in my mouth all the way around. Especially when the other party came in guns blazing on every thread he could find. Right or wrong, Good work or not, he promptly landed on my ignore list for the way it was handled. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

If some of his work was bogus it raises questions and doubts, rightly or wrongly, about all of his work.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. *For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.* "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I haven't heard anything from the defense, nor any evidence to support his position, so I will have to assume (maybe wrongly, unfortunately) that the allegations are in fact true.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

There seems to be two examples of fabrication -- the recent one with the tank car and another from a few months back with a box car. These were called out by people specifically. After that there are 100s of images that no one said anything about. But there's not a good way to check them -- one can use for example google image to search on them -- but who wants to do that...


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## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

If I was falsely accused, I’d want everyone to know the truth. LS silence speaks volumes.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, in fairness to him (as much as I can possibly muster), it could be he is being banned/suspended, in which case it would be impossible to log-in and post….

WAGging is fun, but not entirely productive…..

As for judging, I think that if you have to need to judge, it would depend on how clean you keep your own backyard….if it’s spotless, then I see no reason not to be able to judge…if it’s messy, then clean your own up first before judging others…..or at least adding your 5 cents in (we don’t have pennies up here anymor…..a nickel is our lowest denomination 😁)….


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Big Ed said:


> "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. *For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.* "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?


Did you know that that is the most quoted verse from the Bible in America...the second most being, "For God so loved the world..."

There is a reason for that, but I'm not the forum chaplain and I'm currently writing another sermon anyway...😎👍


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Big Ed said:


> "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. *For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.* "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?


What's your point, he just gets a pass for stealing somebody's work and claiming it's his?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." It doesn't have to be the same sin.


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## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

Ya know, i have been watching this unfold since the first post from Bobby and i have to admit, the evidence looks bad for LS. If their is someone here who is free from ever doing wrong let them stand and be known. I have certainly done my share of wrongs and in the end i would try to make amends to the offended person with mixed results. Sometimes i was forgiven and sometimes the damage was unrepairable. On the other side of the coin Bobby's first few post were so confusing it took me a minuet to understand what he was trying to say. Both Bobby and LS are obliviously very talented modelers with much to contribute here. If LS would come in and say something to the effect like ,look guys i have these personal demons i have fought with through my life and i have fell to the bad urges and issue an apology to those affected. And with the help of this online community and hopefully people in his family and friends' i feel we should try and come to a understanding that no one is perfect and to learn to forgive and move on.
Somehow i get the feeling that if he did come back and ask to be forgiven their would be a mob response condemning him to be stricken from ever contributing here again.
Eating crow is not a tasty meal but you always feel better after you swallow the truth of what you have done and try to move on as a better person.
Sadly i am of the mind he wont do that but if he did i would be ok with him.
To poorly quote a song
Come on people now, smile on your brother,everybody get together try and love one another right now.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

JeffHurl said:


> "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." It doesn't have to be the same sin.


Preaching 101;

A subtext without a context is a pretext.

Now I've gotta sermon to finish ... no kidding.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Resentments, fear, guilt and remorse... All of the above, and each individually, will prevent me from achieving a healthy spiritual relationship with God. By making amends, I clean house, and make room for the presence of God.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Spruslayer said:


> Somehow i get the feeling that if he did come back and ask to be forgiven their would be a mob response condemning him to be stricken from ever contributing here again.


I think and feel just the opposite. It would just take an honest explanation and I’m pretty sure he would be welcomed back. Like others have said, he did contribute very much to the forum.

Wow, that’s a disturbing thought, a mob response. Ugh…. 
Maybe it’s time to get back to talking about trains…


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

"Both Bobby and LS are obviously very talented modelers...". 
This statement raises the question, Is LS a talented modeler or is he just a passing himself off as one? I'm not judging, I'm just asking.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

It could be the original explanations (sold it ebay, mixed up photos) ... To a completely fabricated presence, to something in the middle. There's no way to know ...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

But tell me how he could have sold the hopper on eBay if the guy who built it still has it? He never had it to sell in the first place….

Somethings definitely amiss…..


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

prrfan said:


> Like others have said, he did contribute very much to the forum.


But did he? Was he contributing things that were not his in even more instances?
Yes, we may never know, but that does not make things ok….to me, he can’t be trusted…..


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, I think everyone's made their point here, let's wrap this up.


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