# How Should I Expand?



## netgeist (Mar 3, 2015)

Hello, all. I'm netgeist, a new member who just bought a Bachmann Rail Chief HO set over the weekend. My son and I had a great time building the set and cobbling together a temporary layout...and it looks like we may stick with the hobby. I just don't know much about it! Questions of what couplers I have, whether my controller box can support more than one track switcher, if I can use the magnetic decouplers in ads that I see....etc, are all above my head as I begin my journey.

As I consider learning and expanding, I was wondering where to go next. I don't have a real idea for my end goal yet so am tempted to just get more stuff to see what inspires us. Is it best to get another Bachmann kit just to get more cars and tracks? Are the themed trains from Hawthorne village stuff worthwhile? Or should I stick with what I have and slowly start replacing items with higher end gear?

Any thought you have will be appreciated. I'm sorry if I don't understand the lingo and ask a lot of follow-up questions. I don't know what I'm doing but I do know that I enjoy it!

- netgeist


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

One of the best places to start is right here. :smilie_daumenpos:
Check out the MY layout thread. Just about every type of layout there is.

Also the Layout Design thread.
The more research you do the more money and trouble you'll save. 

First thing you need to do is determine how big a layout you want, everything else depends on that. Do you want a permanent setup or one you can just set up on the floor etc. 
A 4x8 sheet of plywood is a good starting size for an HO layout, can be added to later. Much smaller than that really limits what you can do. A 4x8 is big enough for 22" radius turns.

It's best to not buy kits, they're lower quality stuff.
Go to a good local hobby shop if you have one. They can give you good advice and you can look at different rolling stock, locos etc.

If no handy shop check out walthers.com or modeltrainstuff.com on line.
They have a very large selection of HO stuff and you're sure to get some ideas there.

The loco you have is a GP-40 built from 1965 to 1971 4 axle diesel. a good one for a smaller layout with the 18" radius turns you have. 6 axle locos would like larger 22" or bigger turns. Bigger turns equals a bigger layout. The 50s to the 60s is a good time period for a small layout, lots of good locos and rolling stock (40 or 50' cars) Passenger trains also need bigger radius turns. 

Bachmann EZ track is easy to work with and has enough verity of track and turnouts (switches) for a pretty nice layout. You need to stick with only one brand of this type track, others will not inter change easily. Regular non ballasted track (no plastic ballast under the ties) and turnouts are more work but there are many more options for track plans, cheaper too. 

What you have is a DC (direct currant) loco and power supply/controller. OK for running one train but two or more at the same time requires some fancy wiring and power management. Not to difficult to do but a bit more work. The other option is DCC (Direct Command Control) much more versatile but also much more expensive. There is a computer chip in each loco to control speed and direction, can also be sound equipped for even more money. Bachmann makes a reasonably low cost DCC starter set if you think you want to go that way. With DCC you can run two or more locos at the same time without a lot of extra wiring or power management.

The couplers you have or OK and will work with all knuckle type couplers.
Rolling stock (cars) can be any good brand. Bachmann, Atlas, Athearn, etc.

Don't know about Hawthorne village stuff so no idea.

Questions? We love questions. :smilie_daumenpos:
Answers are 50¢ and correct answers are $5.00  

Magic


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

There are several similar threads in progress right now. There are a lot of different opinions; only you can say for sure what is right for you. First of all, my opinion of the themed stuff -- from whatever source -- is that they are attempts by companies to trick non-model railroaders into spending lots of money on garbage, thinking that their modeler giftee will be thrilled. My advice, steer clear.

Where you should go from here really depends on where you want to be. While the Bachmann EZ track can serve you well for a while, eventually you will run up against the geometric limits of the peices if you attempt a more complicated layout. At this point, you will need to use a different kind of track and turnouts, meaning that your investment in the roadbed track will be lost. On the other hand, you may never get to that point, or even want too. 

Another consideration is the level of realism you desire. If you just want to watch trains run, then pretty much anything that looks good to you is okay. If you want your railroad to look and feel like the real thing, then you need to decide what time period, prototype road (Union Pacific, ATSF, Chesapeake & Ohio, etc.), and area of the country / world you're modeling and only purchase cars, locomoties, and structures that fit those constraints. Again, the danger is that if you just buy stuff willy-nilly now, eventually you will end up with a lot of shelf queens if you change your mind.

I will leave you with a couple of other thoughts. First, don't be afraid to try things and then decide they don't work for you. That even goes for the whole layout -- many of us have built one, only to junk it and begin again. Secondly, remember that there are few rights and wrongs, bests and worsts in this hobby. It has to be right for you, and no one else (well, maybe your son, too, but none of us schmucks here on the boards).


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Oh, yeah, one other thing. I would encourage you to take a good hard look at DCC. Unless you're happy just watching one train go around and around (with any other locos electrically isolated from the rest of the layout), I think it is something you're going to want sooner rather than later, and it's best to do it right from the git-go if you are going to.


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## netgeist (Mar 3, 2015)

I wasn't aware that you can't control more than one train without DCC. That gives me food for thought. I'm a bit mixed on it in a way - I've worked with computers all my life and railroading sounded like a nice break from them. Also...aren't the waaaaay more expensive?

If I want to use the analog trains I have, can I add DCC chips later? Can both DCC and analog run on the Bachmann tracks I have?

I'd like to add to what I have, at least initially, and only replace things when/if I have to.

- netgeist


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## netgeist (Mar 3, 2015)

Also, can I do a hybrid set-up? DCC engines pulling my current analog cars?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi....computers you say?
How about running with PC automation, computer controlled?

Check out Jerry's thread, (if you want).
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=14852

A video from it,


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## netgeist (Mar 3, 2015)

Interesting.....plus IPad apps would appeal to my son. In the interim, I ordered the Bachmann Echo Valley DCC set. Seems to use the same track as what I have and the command center allows for one analog train. I know it's probably not the greatest in the world but it seems good to learn with.

- netgeist


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, you can install a DCC decoder in your new locomotive for
somewhere around 20 to 25.00, non sound. Some are 
plug in if the loco is 'DCC READY'. That would be in your
owners information. Otherwise it's a
matter of soldering 8 or so color coded wires. Easy instructions
come with every decoder. It's also easy to
do and has become an expected part of the hobby. Some have
layouts they can switch back and forth between DCC and DC,
but since your loco is new, just install a decoder and buy
a DCC controller. Save the power pack you have. It will come
in handy to power any remote control turnouts you buy or 
any building lighting.

As a DC locomotive what you have will go forward and reverse
depending on the polarity of the track. That is what the reverse
switch does on your power pack. You raise and lower the voltage
with the 'speed' control. The train lights brighten, dim or go out as you
operate the controls. If you put two DC locos on the track at the
same time they would both do exactly the same thing, you have
no individual control.

With DCC the track stays powered with around 14 or so volts
at all times with a form of
AC that acts as the carrier of the digital info. A decoder in
each loco has a 2 or 4 digit address, thus you can control each
loco separately and run them at the same time with just one
controller. The decoder reacts to your push button command
and moves as you direct it. You can stop and start, for
example, a switcher, as your freight train continues around
the track. And the lights stay on until you turn them off.

You actually don't get involved with the programming of the
system, you just push buttons and turn knobs. Not that much
different from the power pack you have, yet is is easier
to wire and operate. However, some
DCC controllers do permit you to 'go into' the decoder and make
changes in values which results in giving the locomotive a variety
of different actions, such as light controls.

If this train has knuckle couplers (similar to those on real railroad
cars) they are mostly compatible with any other car you buy
that also has knuckle couplers. DCC applies to the locomotive only,
the cars don't care what system is pulling them. The same for
the track. The same track is used for either system.

You may be surprised that you might find additional cars for
sale (used) at any large flea market. You can often find them,
with Kadee knuckle couplers and good rolling metal wheels
for as little as 4 and 5 dollars. There are often large estate
sales listed here on the Forum and on Craigslist with very
good values in used rolling stock.

Don


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi netgeist, and welcome. I'll interject here because I was in the same boat as you a couple of months ago. I bought my son a Bachmann HO Thunder Chief set for Xmas. Big difference between that one and yours is it is DCC. Anyway, I got tired of watching it go around in circles and decided to go to town.

The first thing I would do is go to your local hobby shop or online and purchase some of the Atlas layout books, and perhaps the wiring book. The layout books will help you understand how to build a layout, how the track works, what kinds of things you can do in certain spaces, how the wiring works, what parts you need, etc. The wiring books gives you more detail about wiring, mostly for DC but still applicable for both. The books certainly aren't a bible (I wish I used flex track instead of individual pieces) but will definitely set you in the right direction.

From there, you will have more questions. This site will help a lot in answering those.

Another thing you can purchase is a Walthers catalogue. They are about $15 and are fun to flip through to get ideas on the kinds of things you can add to your layout. If you find a locomotive or structure or other feature that you really like (you can create a whole amusement park!), it can help shape your decisions of what your layout should be.

With these tools in hand, if budget is a concern they will help you understand what you can do. Don't get too caught up on trying to plan every intimate detail before you get started. If you do that, you will never get started. Pick a layout that looks interesting and you can make it work.

I chose the 4x8 which, while not ideal, does fit in our space. I chose a layout that has two parallel tracks and a third passing track plus a turntable. I chose it for no other reason than I like the switching and I want to run more than one train (eventually). I haven't added any locomotives yet, but I did add some box cars and a coal car that I got used for about $8-10 a piece at a local train shop. My son and I have a lot of fun just dropping off some cars in the "yard" and picking others up. It helps him learn how trains work. 

I'm eventually going to add a passenger train (not sure how since its a smallish layout) and another freight locomotive. Before I do that I want to make some more progress on the layout. I'll wait until the next train show comes to town and I may be able to get a deal on a good DCC loco, which can be expensive if they have good sound.

Which brings up...Keep your eye out for a train show coming to your locality. Very helpful in seeing what others have done and even can get some discounted items. Also see if there is a train club nearby.

Hope I've been a help. Feel free to send me a message off line. As a fellow newbie I can share some of the lessons learned from my experience.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

As far as your hybrid train goes, cars are cars. Only the loco is DCC or not.

Hokie's idea to get some books is a good one. You might want to look at books published by "neutral" parties, as Atlas books are designed to sell Atlas track. A book on layout planning might help, too. Kalmbach Publishing is a good source.

As far as train shows, being in Massachusetts, you just missed the Granddaddy of all Trainshows -- the Amherst Model Railroad Show, held the weekend before the Superbowl at the Big E in Springfield. Plan to catch it next year for sure.


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## netgeist (Mar 3, 2015)

That show is what opened my eyes to the depth of the hobby. We brought my son there a few years ago because he loved Thomas and we heard there would be Lego trains. I figured if a few years went by and he still had interest in trains, we'd give it a try. 

This is that year...and it's a welcome diversion from his video game obsession! So we're getting started now so I can be more knowledgeable at the next show.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

netgeist said:


> That show is what opened my eyes to the depth of the hobby. We brought my son there a few years ago because he loved Thomas and we heard there would be Lego trains. I figured if a few years went by and he still had interest in trains, we'd give it a try.
> 
> This is that year...and it's a welcome diversion from his video game obsession! So we're getting started now so I can be more knowledgeable at the next show.


I love it. You get so much more out of life with a "build it yourself" hobby (trains, planes, cars, rockets) than video games. In the last two months I've learned something about:

- General model train info (gauges, track, couplers, turnouts, roadbed, etc)
- History and evolution of the locomotive
- Wiring switches (DPDT, SPST, etc)
- Logic circuits and micro processors (not that I used them, but I researched them and may in the future)
- Soldering techniques
- Plastic model building, painting, and weathering techniques
- Plaster and other diorama building basics

Probably more, but this is off the top of my head. And no thanks to the expansive knowledge base that exists on this forum (even if some of them come from UVA, LOL!)


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I am not a Wahoo, my wife is. I am a Brewer (undergraduate) and a Nittany Lion (graduate and lifelong affiliation).

I always spend all weekend at the show, one day working at the Essex Steam Train booth and one day exploring. You can spend hours just examining all of the layouts, never mind actually looking for stuff. Personally, though, I find the best benefit is going to the manufacturers booths and looking at new offerings, or being able to get my hands on something and actually experience it (I chose my DCC system based on doing this).

BTW, Hokie, I hope you misspoke -- you said "No thanks to..." There is a ton of information to be had here, and a lot of good brains to pick in the membership.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> BTW, Hokie, I hope you misspoke -- you said "No thanks to..." There is a ton of information to be had here, and a lot of good brains to pick in the membership.


Yeah, I meant "Thanks to". Hokie brain fart.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

netgeist said:


> This is that year...and it's a welcome diversion from his video game obsession! So we're getting started now so I can be more knowledgeable at the next show.


Don't worry, you'll soon be an armchair expert like the rest of us!


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