# Question: Siding Direction



## ctaylor33 (Feb 2, 2014)

Hello all,

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do trains normally enter a siding - forward or in reverse? I want to add a few sidings to my layout where the trains will pull up to a factory or freight station and park but I am not sure where to place them.

Thanks!

-Christian


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Christian

There are no dumb questions on the Forum.

You can have a through siding or a dead end siding.

A through siding, might be designed for 2 trains, running
in opposite directions on the same single track, to pass
each other. (you can do that with DCC) One train goes onto the siding and the
other continues on the main. Or it could be an industrial siding with access
at either end and one or more loading platforms where you spot cars.

A dead end siding, or industrial spur, can be accessed from
one end only but it also, might have more than one industry to service
by your trains.

A locomotive spotting a car at a loading platform, for instance,
could go forward and push the car ahead of it to the platform, or
it could back the car
to it if there were access from both ends.

A locomotive would push or back the car in to the platform
on a dead end siding. Obviously the locomotive could not
go in first. 

In either case, normally, the locomotive leaves the car at
the platform and goes elsewhere on the layout to do something else.

Sidings can be placed anywhere you want on your layout. You select
a space big enuf for whatever industry you want, and lay your track
to it. Some are simple straight lines, some go around a curve to get
to the industry. 

Since the main is expected to be busy with trains coming and going it
is unusual to have a loading platform facing one. That is why you
have sidings.

A group of sidings, one after the other using turnouts off one
track is a yard (freight yard or locomotive service yard). These
can be either dead end tracks or accessed from both ends.

So now you get the idea...let's see the layout you draw up.

Don


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Some clarification on terms, and some basics on railway operation.

The term "siding" is usually officially used to refer to a passing siding; a track arrangement that allows trains to pass each other on single track main lines. This is usually a simple double ended track, and the train will pull straight in and straight out the other side. This really isn't a "parking" track, although in some cases when the need arises a train may be left standing in a passing siding for various reasons. This is generally avoided on real railroads, but on a small model train layout a passing track provides a convenient place to park a short train.

A factory spur is not a place for a train to "pull in and park". This track exists for a factory to be able to load/unload freight cars. The railway exists to provide a service, and that service is transportation. A freight car is delivered to the factory's spur, and the factory loads it and the car is then picked up and delivered to its destination to be unloaded (how an individual loaded freight car gets from point A to point B is a completely other discussion).

A yard is a collection of tracks (it wouldn't be correct to call this a group of sidings though; siding really means something specific, not just some auxiliary track) where trains are built and freight cars may be sorted or stored. There are different types and purposes of yards, but what most people think of first when talking about yards in general is a classification or marshaling yard. This is where cars are sorted for various destinations. A typical loaded freight car will probably end up visiting several different yards during the course of its journey.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

and that, as they say, is that.
couldn't be explained much simpler:thumbsup: thanks cv

back to christians question, cars could be backed in or pushed into an industry spur. but obviously the engine cannot be trapped behind the car. so u might need a passing siding so the loco can get to proper side of the car to push it in a spur.


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

this is one way you can do it.
have the spurs come off the main line so you can pull up to a spot, uncouple the cars behind the cars that are going in to the spur, pull ahead, throw turn out, back in to spur,
uncouple, pull out, throw turn out, back in to train , got to next drop off place.

this all so creates a make up yard so you can line up the consort the right way.


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## ctaylor33 (Feb 2, 2014)

Thank you all so much for your replies. So far I have created a siding, where the train can pull in one direction and pull out the other end. I was thinking this would be good for a passenger station. And I created a spur that then forks into two smaller spurs. Each will have a factory of some sort on it and the engine will back into either of them.

My only problem now is that I am using Power Loc track and my locos keep derailing at the switches. I am considering redoing the whole thing with True-Track. I am not quite ready to permanently lay my track so I don't want to go to cork or foam roadbed just yet, but I like that the True Track can be converted down the road once I have a permanent layout I wish to commit to.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Some times you can discover what at the turnout is causing
derailments.

Get down real close to a turnout where it happens. Shnie a bright
light on the rails. Run the locomotive that derails as slow as it
will go thru the turnout. Watch where the wheels lift. Stop immediately.
Do this 2 or 3 times and see if the event happens at exactly
the same spot. Then see what is there. 

Often there is a bad fit of the point to a flat spot against the rail
that lets a wheel flange split it. Sometimes there is a high or low
part of the points or rails. Adjust it, if so, and try again.

If the turnout is not properly supported, for example, on a carpet,
that could be the problem.

If all else fails...get Peco insulfrog turnouts. They end all derailments
instantly.

Don


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Here we are in New Holland PA:









Look familiar? Every where has a Railroad Avenue. A google map and then an earth picture reveals all kind of sidings and old station locations that you never knew existed.

The other thing you might want to look at is YouTube. There are all kind of layout videos, many of which show their switching operations as well. You might see something that you will want to use on your layout.


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## ctaylor33 (Feb 2, 2014)

Thanks again for all the replies. Love the New Holland map, Bob. I just drove by that area and had a good look at the spurs (hope I have the terms straight now). 

I went ahead and upgraded everything to True Track and rearranged the switches and most of my locos are no longer derailing. The only trouble I am having now is with my "toy train" rolling stock and the code 83 track. A lack of weight and poor wheels/trucks is causing some of them to derail. And my two Spectrum K4's derail at every switch. I read online that the tenders on them are too light and the wire between the loco and tender too stiff, which causes the derailments. 

Also, when I flip the remote switch to activate the turnout my locos slow a little bit and their lights dim. Is it possible I wired the remote wrong? I attempted an asymmetrical wiring of two switches together, but maybe I did it wrong. I followed the instructions in my Atlas manual.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

ctaylor33 said:


> Also, when I flip the remote switch to activate the turnout my locos slow a little bit and their lights dim. Is it possible I wired the remote wrong? I attempted an asymmetrical wiring of two switches together, but maybe I did it wrong. I followed the instructions in my Atlas manual.


Sounds like you just have a cheap power transformer. When you activate the switch, it draws current and power away from the main output. The momentary reduction in power to your engine is not unexpected. Your switch wiring is probably fine. The only way to fix this would be to use a separate transformer just for the accessories or get a beefier unit that can handle a much higher current draw, like something out of MRC's Tech series.


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## ctaylor33 (Feb 2, 2014)

This is the one I have:

http://www.amazon.com/MRC-Tech-4-200-MRCAB111/dp/B0006KQH8S

I have a few smaller, cheaper power packs. The ones that came with the fist train sets I bought years ago. Maybe I will use one of them for the switches/turnouts.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, one of the old power packs would be ideal for your
turnout juice. That would end the slowing problem
when you throw a turnout. Use it for all of the accessories 
and lights.

Don


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## ctaylor33 (Feb 2, 2014)

I tried one of the old power packs and the switches wouldn't operate. It's as if they need more power than the little pack can provide.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That would be unusual. Did you try both the AC accessories and
the DC track side cranked up to max? Either should be sufficient
to throw a turnout unless the power pack has internal problems.

If you have a multimeter check the voltage outputs. If that is to
spec then attention need go to the turnouts. Are the points free
moving? Are you throwing more than one when you push a button?

Don


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## ctaylor33 (Feb 2, 2014)

It is two turnouts asymmetrically wired to one switch. They work fine with my main power box but the the trains slow when I flip the switch.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

That is normal. that is the reason for using a separate power pack for accessories, like turnouts.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

On both the Nebraska Central, and the KYLE railroad, we would have to spot cars into an industrial track, when going towards the points. What we would do, is cut off the lead engine run it into the spur, then pull the cars past the switch bring the locomotive out of the spur, couple to the cars and pull them back past the switch, and spot them. Then put the power back together, back on to the train, and continue on.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Branch/short lines build their spurs with switches of both 'trailing point' and 'facing point' type along the route. A daily local will build up a train in the yard in the order the cars will be put out or retrieved..The train will then move along the line from say, east to west.. It will then do all the trailing-point industries by passing the switch for each, throwing it, then backing the car or cars into/out of the spur..
At the end of the line, if it's a small branch or short line there will be a run around track (passing siding). Engine will go around remaining cars, couple on to them and run in reverse back the other way, west to east, and spot cars on the remaining spurs, now trailing-point in relation to engine and cars, and again, back or shove the cars into or out of the spurs..
Many industry lines are long enough to warrant turntables or wyes at their ends to reverse engines...Huge passenger terminals have balloon tracks to reverse entire trains...
All main line sidings are double-ended (passing sidings).


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Unless of course a car has to be spotted or picked up from a facing point switch, then you would perform the move I described.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Sorry. I deleted the post you're replying to...
So in general, I'd mentioned 2 engines could double the fuel use...


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Generally no, as we usually needed the power to pull the train anyway. Second, with two engines back to back, we always had one fast the direction of travel. Third, and this was more true on the KYLE, if there were west bound cars to pick up on a facing point switch, it was a lot fewer miles to pickup them up with the two engine split, then to drag across them across KS. Third, sometimes the customer needed their cars right away. Remember, you can also always isolate any unneeded power.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

ncrc5315 said:


> Unless of course a car has to be spotted or picked up from a facing point switch, then you would perform the move I described.


This sounds like it might be near double fuel expenditure by using 2 engines for the same overall job; unless of course entire run is completed faster (= lower TTL crew pay per trick ?) IE. each station completed in one direction, dead head back home at far end of line.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

It could be noted that on a roundy-round type layout with a single track, *two* passing siding are needed or the trains will meet on the other side of the layout.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

This is not necessarily so.. After trains meet in the siding, first train goes around layout and comes back to siding..Then other departs, goes around layout in opposite direction (or even same direction) and returns to siding where first train departs again,..constantly leap frogging at the passing siding... Only diff is waiting times for each, based on physical differences (length/weight) and speed differences of each train...
But, yes, ideally layout is large enough to justify several passing sidings if 2 or more trains are being ran at the same time.


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