# Kato Double Crossover Buzzing Sound



## nexus-logcorp (Aug 23, 2021)

Hello,

I've finally gotten my first N Scale - double mainline *DCC* layout up and running.
I'm using an NCE Powercab.
It features a Kato Unitrack Double Crossover. Each side of the (four ends of the) double crossover has been properly fed power.
Also, the direct wire to control the crossover section has been wired to the main power bus.
My locos are crossing over it without any shorts or issues.

*THE PROBLEM:
When my layout is powered on, the double crossover makes a buzzing sound.*
Is this normal? (I've been searching the internet to learn if this is normal or not.)

Again, this is my first layout and I'm new to the hobby. I'm just trying to figure out if the crossover is having an issue or if the buzzing sound is normal.

Thanks in advance!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

very uncertain...DC or DCC?

What device exactly is feeding the double crossover?

Generally, if an electrical devise is buzzing AC current
is the cause. Even so, that should be a momentary
sound only when points are thrown.

Does Kato specify AC or DC for their turnouts?

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Don;

Kato turnouts are definitely DC only. They use a single coil in their built-in switch machine. Reversing the polarity of the DC to the turnout is what throws the points.

regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


nexus-logcorp said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've finally gotten my first N Scale - double mainline layout up and running.
> It features a Kato Unitrack Double Crossover. Each side of the (four ends of the) double crossover has been properly fed power.
> ...


Nexus-logcorp;

NO, the buzzing noise is certainly Not normal. In fact, the cause of the buzzing may be harming your double crossover!  Stop and disconnect it now. 
I suspect you have hooked the double crossover up to some source of AC current, like the "accessories" output terminals of a power pack. Kato turnouts, and their double crossover, use a unique mechanism to move the point rails. While many brands of model turnouts have "Twin-Coil" switch machines, Kato uses a Single-Coil switch machine. The Kato machines are buried in the gray plastic "roadbed" piece under the crossover. They are designed to run on DC current only!  Reversing the polarity of this DC current is what moves the points.
Twin-Coil switch machines, like those used by Atlas, Bachmann, and Peco, can run on either DC or AC. The Kato Single-Coil machine can not. If you feed it AC current, it will just make a buzzing noise, and if that goes on long at all, it may burn out one, or more, of the coils in your expensive crossover.

Is your Kato crossover hooked up to the Kato controller designed for it? If it is, what feeds power into the Kato controller?
Do you have a multimeter? If you do, use it to check the power going into the Kato controller. It should be DC, not AC.
If you don't have a meter, I highly recommend getting one. It doesn't need to be an elaborate, expensive meter. The little red meter in the photo is available from harbor freight www.harborfreight.com for only $ 5, and it can do any job needed on a model railroad.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## nexus-logcorp (Aug 23, 2021)

DonR said:


> very uncertain...DC or DCC?
> 
> What device exactly is feeding the double crossover?
> 
> ...


This is a DCC layout - The wire from the crossover is going to my 16 gauge bus wire.


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## nexus-logcorp (Aug 23, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Don;
> 
> Kato turnouts are definitely DC only. They use a single coil in their built-in switch machine. Reversing the polarity of the DC to the turnout is what throws the points.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response to my issue!

*Here are some pics to add further context.*

I'll disconnect it at once. (Actually, I'm going to first disconnect the wire that comes directly from the crossover that is connecting to the bus and see if the sound is still present before I disconnect the entire section from the layout.)

I've ordered a RRampMeter for inspecting track voltage.

Glad I decided to make a post to see if this was normal... the buzzing sound was killing me!


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

nexus-logcorp said:


> This is a DCC layout - The wire from the crossover is going to my 16 gauge bus wire.


DCC is alternating current (AC). Do NOT power your Kato turnouts from your bus wire!

You will need to power them from a direct current (DC) source.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

An old DC power pack is often used to power turnout
motors. Many of us use obsolete wall warts. There is
a label on each one. Look for DC and 12 to 15 volts.

Don


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## nexus-logcorp (Aug 23, 2021)

Mixed Freight said:


> DCC is alternating current (AC). Do NOT power your Kato turnouts from your bus wire!
> 
> You will need to power them from a direct current (DC) source.


Wow, thank you soo much for this! I have six additional turnouts that I was going to connect to my bus wire. Phew, glad I got this early tip!

Thanks again!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

nexus-logcorp said:


> Wow, thank you soo much for this! I have six additional turnouts that I was going to connect to my bus wire. Phew, glad I got this early tip!
> 
> Thanks again!


You are welcome.
The photos helped, but from just your verbal description, "buzzing noise, constant from power up", we all got the same message, He's putting AC into the coils.
Yes, as said, DCC is a modulated form of AC power. When you get a meter, set it to AC volts turn on your Powercab, and measure the voltage on the rails. It should read about sixteen volts AC.

If you want to operate your crossover with DCC, that can't be done just by connecting the crossover's internal switch machine's red & black wires to the DCC power bus. There is an additional device you will need called a "stationary decoder." This circuit receives digital signals from the Powercab, just as the decoders in your locomotives do. When it sees a signal addressed to it, it will output DC voltage to the switch machine(s) inside the crossover.
Does your crossover have more than one pair of red and black wires coming out of it? Since a crossover contains four turnouts, I would think it would have either four, or possibly two, switch machines, and therefore more than one pair of red & black wires.
You will need a stationary decoder for each turnout you want to control with your DCC system. Some stationary decoders have more than one output and can operate more than one turnout. If you bought a quad output decoder, it could handle four of your turnouts, with individual control of each.

Many modelers choose to use DCC for controlling trains, and a separate, DC, power supply (old DC power pack, or one of those "wall wart" plug-in black cubes used to charge cell phones etc.) to operate their turnouts & other accessories. This would mean either using Kato's rather bulky turnout lever controls, or building a control panel with push buttons, or spring-loaded momentary toggle switches, one for each turnout. 

Red and black are most commonly used as power feed, or bus wires, just as you have them. With DCC, bus wires are used to supply constant AC voltage and "piggy backed" digital signals, to the rails.* That is why the coils in your crossover buzzed as soon as you turned power on, and kept buzzing as long as the DCC system was on.

On a DC system (whether model railroad, or some other kind.) Red is used for positive DC voltage, and Black for negative DC. A common example would be the battery cable connections in our cars. They are color-coded red for positive and black for negative. Important because hooking them up backwards can make the battery explode!
Kato, in their own inscrutable Japanese way, decided to use blue and white for track power, and red and black for switch machines. I can see how when you saw red and black wires coming out of the crossover, you very logically, for an American, thought they should connect to the red and black bus wires, not so though.

The files below may help explain things a little. I wrote them specifically for new modelers. There are other files, but these should do for now. If/when you want more, just ask.

Traction Fan 🙂

* Bus wires are also used to power & control, those stationary DCC decoders I mentioned.


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## nexus-logcorp (Aug 23, 2021)

traction fan said:


> You are welcome.
> The photos helped, but from just your verbal description, "buzzing noise, constant from power up", we all got the same message, He's putting AC into the coils.
> Yes, as said, DCC is a modulated form of AC power. When you get a meter, set it to AC volts turn on your Powercab, and measure the voltage on the rails. It should read about sixteen volts AC.
> 
> ...




Whoever you (and the other commenters) are, I gotta give you a MASSIVE thanks for replying to me with this in depth breakdown!!!

My crossover only has one set of red/black wire coming from it. And yep, you called it perfectly. I seen the red and black wires and figured they get wired to the power bus' red/black cables.

Even with all the reading and research I've been doing, this aspect of wiring turnouts evaded me. You and the other commenters really helped me on this. Thanks for the resources as well!

When I decided to build a layout for my son, I thought it would be as simple as buying tracks, connecting them and plugging them in..... here we are, knee deep in learning the basics of electronic wiring! 

This adventure in tinkering and learning has still be incredibly fun!


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

nexus-logcorp said:


> My crossover only has one set of red/black wire coming from it. And yep, you called it perfectly. I seen the red and black wires and figured they get wired to the power bus' red/black cables.


Kato uses a really unique color coding system. If the wire is to the track, it uses one blue and one white wire. This works whether it is a DC or DCC track. But it then uses a red and black wires for the turnout controls. 

To control your turnouts, you can use the switches from Kato, if you can find them. Some of the turnouts come in a set with the switch while you can also buy just the turnout. The switches they sell are designed to get DC power by plugging into metal snap-type connectors on the side of the original Kato power pack. If you do not get these switches, I recommend (after getting recommendations from here) buying what you need from Ken Stapleton (if you can, I just got an error trying his website when I called it up to get the URL for you). He makes an excellent toggle switch with the electronics you need to connect to Kato turnouts. With that, you can just use any 12 volt DC power supply, as mentioned above. If you do not use his, I think you can get any momentary DPDT switch and wire it in. I think (and I am not sure because I am also relatively new at this) that leaving a switch in the on position with Kato switches will burn them out. They are designed for just a momentary shot of power.


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## nexus-logcorp (Aug 23, 2021)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Kato uses a really unique color coding system. If the wire is to the track, it uses one blue and one white wire. This works whether it is a DC or DCC track. But it then uses a red and black wires for the turnout controls.
> 
> To control your turnouts, you can use the switches from Kato, if you can find them. Some of the turnouts come in a set with the switch while you can also buy just the turnout. The switches they sell are designed to get DC power by plugging into metal snap-type connectors on the side of the original Kato power pack. If you do not get these switches, I recommend (after getting recommendations from here) buying what you need from Ken Stapleton (if you can, I just got an error trying his website when I called it up to get the URL for you). He makes an excellent toggle switch with the electronics you need to connect to Kato turnouts. With that, you can just use any 12 volt DC power supply, as mentioned above. If you do not use his, I think you can get any momentary DPDT switch and wire it in. I think (and I am not sure because I am also relatively new at this) that leaving a switch in the on position with Kato switches will burn them out. They are designed for just a momentary shot of power.


When I first started building my layout, the assembly was pretty straightforward until I got to wiring the feeders. The blue/white wire color codes threw me for a loop!

I plan to control the 6 turnouts and double crossover with my Power Cab and via NCE Switch-Kats. Since I'm new to the hobby, I held off on installing the Switch-Kats during the initial layout wiring phase. (I wanted to make troubleshooting easy — just in case I ran into issues during the first power up.) If I would have added the Switch-Kat, I may not have seen an issue since it's a stationary controller...?

I'm going to read the resources from @traction fan and look more into DC power supply options. I've been doing a video log of the entire build and will post updates here once I get the turnouts wired properly and can control them from my Power Cab.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

On a related topic: how do you "block wire" a non-DCC Kato layout? Do you chop off their connectors and use hardware-store switches or those PC-board switches Atlas makes; or is there a line of Kato electric accessories modeltrainstuff doesn't show?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

GNfan

We luv ya man...and your questions are always welcome...but
you know what you did? You jumped in on another guy's
thread with a different topic. Your questions will get much more attention
when you start your own thread. We'll be looking for it.

Don


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

OK, I didn't think we needed a third active thread regarding Kato wiring, but I'll go start one.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Kato uses a really unique color coding system. If the wire is to the track, it uses one blue and one white wire. This works whether it is a DC or DCC track. But it then uses a red and black wires for the turnout controls.
> 
> To control your turnouts, you can use the switches from Kato, if you can find them. Some of the turnouts come in a set with the switch while you can also buy just the turnout. The switches they sell are designed to get DC power by plugging into metal snap-type connectors on the side of the original Kato power pack. If you do not get these switches, I recommend (after getting recommendations from here) buying what you need from Ken Stapleton (if you can, I just got an error trying his website when I called it up to get the URL for you). He makes an excellent toggle switch with the electronics you need to connect to Kato turnouts. With that, you can just use any 12 volt DC power supply, as mentioned above. If you do not use his, I think you can get any momentary DPDT switch and wire it in. I think (and I am not sure because I am also relatively new at this) that leaving a switch in the on position with Kato switches will burn them out. They are designed for just a momentary shot of power.


Steve;

You are correct about leaving power applied to the solenoids on Kato, and Atlas, and Bachmann, and also Peco (if you use their twin-coil switch machine) Any solenoid-operated switch machine is definitely intended for only a short burst of electricity. Leaving power applied more than a few seconds can burn out the coils. We often recommend CDUs (Capacitive Discharge Units) such as those built into some of Stapleton's controls, for solenoid-operated switch machines. A CDU only puts out that brief burst of power, and can't recharge until the pushbutton, or momentary toggle, is released by the operator. This eliminates burnt out coils.

Stall motors, like the Tortoise, are just the opposite. They are designed to have power applied constantly. The polarity of the DC applied to a Tortoise, or Switchmaster, motor is reversed to move the turnout points, but its always powered up.

And then along comes Kato. They did things differently. They use a single-coil switch machine, instead of the twin-coil design used by every other brand. They use DC only, while all the others can use either DC or AC. Like the Tortoise & Switchmaster, they use DC, and reverse the polarity to move the turnout points. Unlike the stall motors though, the Kato machine is not designed to have power applied constantly. Doing that will cook it. So, the Kato machine is part one way and part the other, and all unique! 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

nexus-logcorp said:


> Whoever you (and the other commenters) are, I gotta give you a MASSIVE thanks for replying to me with this in depth breakdown!!!
> 
> My crossover only has one set of red/black wire coming from it. And yep, you called it perfectly. I seen the red and black wires and figured they get wired to the power bus' red/black cables.
> 
> ...


nexus-logcorp;

Well, a MASSIVE you're welcome, right back at you. 😄 

I am Traction Fan 🙂
"the other commentators" include DonR, Mixed Freight, Steve Rothstein, and a "cast of thousands! " 😊


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Good thing I popped in when I did. You are about to burn the double crossover up. Disconnect it now. The Kato double crossover (and I have one, works flawlessly) is either manually operated by way of the 4 slides next to the 4 moving points OR they all 4 operate off of reversible 12 VDC. If you don't have a Kato switch machine you will need a double pole double throw (DPDT) momentary on-off-momentary on switch, whether it be toggle or rocker type doesn't matter but it has to switch itself to "off" when you let go. Once you hook it up correctly to 12VDC all you'll need to do is actuate the switch and let go, you'll hear the turnout do it's thing and Kato turnouts only require the momentary power to operate


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Let me add, then I'll get back to reading . . . . . Kato turnouts all have red / black wires, their track power wires are blue / white. The double crossover has 4 separate turnouts in one unit and can be manually operated separately (but that would cause short issues when running the trains) or as I said all 4 can be operated electrically with 12VDC. the single crossovers (I have both left and right) have 2 turnouts and both operate at same time either manual or with 12VDC, regular left or right turnouts are manual or electric

On my layout I have 3 basic sets of wiring colors, blue / white for track power, and I'm now running DCC with the original Kato DC controller as a second "Jump Throttle". Red / black for turnouts using a "wall wart" for 12VDC power, and yellow+ / green- for lighting using other wall warts of various levels of milliamps and using the supplied resistors for the LED lamps


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