# (HO) Almost ready to get started with track work.



## FzCruzer (Dec 24, 2016)

Hello all,

I am getting closer to finally starting the build of my layout, just a little more time to finish up the track plan, and get the space ready. 

I have pretty much committed to using the Fast Tracks jigs and tools for building my turnouts. Kind of a no brainer for me as I will have approximately 60 switches and the vast majority will be Fast Tracks #6. I am going to order the stuff shortly so I can hopefully have a small inventory made when I start laying track.

As I see it here are the pros and cons "for me".
Pro

Reliable quality switch if built correctly.

I like the ability to do more custom weathering of the ties and track work, although many people get a great look using store bought turnouts.
The ability to make small changes to have them fit better into the track work.

Ability to build curved turnouts at a small extra cost.

Very cost effective, at the 60 switch mark, the cost will be approximately $12.40 each, and will save about $815 overall compared to a Peco switch that I would use if buying a prebuilt turnout.

Cons
Initial startup cost of buying the jigs and tooling, although I break about even at 15 switches.

The time to hand build the switches. It seems most people that stick to it, average out to about an hour per switch. My time spent building them really does not have a cash value. This time could be spent doing other things either Model Railroad related, other hobbies or family time.

Will not have the Peco type centering spring. This is kind of a bummer for me; I liked the idea of throwing the turnout by hand and having the spring keep force on the rail without having to use a "hand throw".

I have also looked into hand laying at least some of the track instead of using flex. I am surprised that there is not a good sized cost savings. Looks like hand laying is about the same price as buying flex and the time involved is considerable, unless I have messed up the math. I might try it when building the main yard and sidings off the main track. Then use flex for the main track to speed up the process some. 

We shall see soon.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Hand laid turnouts without fast tracks*



FzCruzer said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am getting closer to finally starting the build of my layout, just a little more time to finish up the track plan, and get the space ready.
> 
> ...


FZCruzer;

I totally agree with your plan to build your own turnouts. When you need a lot of them (60!?) it definitely saves a lot of money!
I suspect you may need more than an hour or two for your first few turnouts. Possibly for all of them, but using the jig from fast tracks may speed up production. I make my own (N-scale) turnouts, but I don't use Fast Track's, or any other, jig. You don't need to spend money on jigs if you don't want to. I have watched the fast tracks video, and it looks like a handy system. Two things I definitely do not like about their method are the use of only a few PC ties, with most ties being wood, and the use of a plain PC tie as a throwbar. I have "been there & done that" and found that the copper cladding can, and often does, come off the PC board material. After much frustration with replacing broken throwbars, and sometimes entire turnouts, I decided to build something stronger that would keep on working with minimal maintenance.
My new turnouts have all PC ties and a much stronger, though oversized, throwbar. Since you are working in a larger scale, your HO rails and PC ties will have more surface area where they are soldered to each other. I don't know if that will make any real difference, or not. You might want to try making a turnout or two, without the jig, to see if that will work well for you. This will also give you a chance to do some heavy strength testing on the the cladding-to-epoxy board bond. Take a small pair of needle-nosed pliers and very gently rock the rail side to side near the solder joint. Easy does it. you're trying to simulate the strain of many operations of the throwbar and pressure against the stock rails; not the effects of an HO-scale earthquake. 
I wrote up my current method with a lot of text and photos. If you want, you can go into the "General Model Train Discussion" section of this forum, and use the search function to find "How I scratch build my turnouts."

Good luck, it sounds like a major project!

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I agree that the weak point (sorry) is the attachment of the point to the throw bar. If you use a PC tie, then the solder needs to be silver solder, regular solder tends to break. Alternatively you can use a point system like Proto87 stores sells, which gains another advantage in that you don't need to file that stock rail flanges! I also don't use any fast track jigs, not sure they would save much time.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Proto87?*



Lemonhawk said:


> I agree that the weak point (sorry) is the attachment of the point to the throw bar. If you use a PC tie, then the solder needs to be silver solder, regular solder tends to break. Alternatively you can use a point system like Proto87 stores sells, which gains another advantage in that you don't need to file that stock rail flanges! I also don't use any fast track jigs, not sure they would save much time.


 Lemonhawk;

I'm not familiar with the proto87 point system. From the 87 in the name I'm assuming they only make the product in HO-scale, and I model in N-scale. Still, I'm curious as to this system. Do you have any info on it?
The silver solder suggestion would, of course, make a stronger solder joint between rail and PC tie throwbar. However it won't make the copper cladding stay on the PC board epoxy layer( if epoxy is the right term) That's the weakest point, in my opinion, based on the throwbar failures I've seen too many of. It always seemed to be the bond between cladding and PC material that failed, not the actual solder joint. Still stronger is better, so using silver solder certainly won't hurt anything.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Sorry, I didn't notice the N scale and the proto87 store is only HO. Here'e the link anyway
http://www.proto87.com/

I haven't had problems with the copper cladding lifting, that usually happens with to much heat for far too long. I do use a Hakko FX888D soldering station, I resisted getting this for years, I now admit that was a terrible decision, but I do some electronics experimentation so its used for things other than turnouts and soldering track! The first 2 turnouts I made had the points break from the ties, once I used some silver content solder I have not had an issue.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Interesting info. Thanks.*



Lemonhawk said:


> Sorry, I didn't notice the N scale and the proto87 store is only HO. Here'e the link anyway
> http://www.proto87.com/
> 
> I haven't had problems with the copper cladding lifting, that usually happen with to much heat for far too long. I do use a Hakko FX888D soldering station, I resisted getting this for years, I now admit that was a terrible decision, but I do dome electronics experimentation so its used for things other than turnouts and soldering track! The first 2 turnouts I made had the points break from the ties, once I used some silver content solder I have not had an issue.


 Lemonhawk;

Thanks for the link to Proto87. Even though I model in a different scale, it was still interesting to see their system. I did not see the points though. You had mentioned Proto87's points to the OP. My cladding failures occurred long after any soldering, and I use a low wattage iron, so I doubt that excessive heat was involved. I have seen too much heat loosen cladding on other projects though. I suspect my throwbar, and PC tie failures may have been related to the tiny amount of contact surface area between a code 55 rail, and an N-scale sized PC tie. At one point I found that using a wider tie helped somewhat.
I'm guessing that the soldering station you mentioned limits the amount of heat with some sort of built-in temperature control. Is that correct? Do you have any link or other info regarding your soldering station? Can you tell me what it cost?
My own system of building turnouts has eliminated both cladding-related failures for me, but I'm always interested in what other folks have done to solve similar problems.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Here's the Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M
The tips have a thermal sensor and you set the controller to hold a temperature. Normally I use 750, but had to go a little higher on the silver solder.
some pictures of my Proto87 points. first picture you can see the way the points are machined they fit the stock rail without filing the flange. The second picture the stock rail flanges have been filed away for the points to meet flush. Zoom in a little to see the detail better. The cat whisker in the second photo belongs to Maddy who likes to patrol the railway, when she gets into the room.


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