# Power to track Question



## BaldTbirdr

I have a Lionel HolidayTradition Express. The train came with enough track to make a 12' total track length oval track layout. I extended the layout to a 26' oval layout. Here is a description of my problem followed by a question:



After setting up my 26' layout, with the lockon track power connection attached to one of the end curved pieces, and the power on, I had a problem getting the train to run in either forward or reverse. All other commands to the engine worked fine. Someone suggested to me that I could solve my problem by adding another power lockon to mt setup, so I added the additional power lockon to a curved piece at the opposite end of the oval from my original power lockon. That gave me two 12V 2.5 amp power supplies providing power to the track. In addition, I cleaned the track to make sure the tender was getting good contact. I turned the set on, making sure both power lockons were on and both were supplying power to the track. The train worked just fine with this setup. However, for some reason or another, after having run the train a couple of times over the Christmas Holiday, and having it sit idle for three days, I'm back to getting no forward or reverse to the engine. I cleaned the track again, but that did not solve the problem. I've checked the tender and engine on a test track (made up of two track sections, a lockon track power connection, and an original Lionel 12V 2.5 amp A/C adapter) and I get plenty of power to the engine, both forward and reverse, and all of the other commands work as well, so I know, or have to assume, that the tender and engine electronics are fine. I also have to assume that the problem seems to be in getting enough amps to power the train when it is sitting on the 23' layout.

So, here is the question. Could my problem be that I need to somehow strengthen the 2.5 amp power to the track layout, and could I achieve that goal by adding yet another 12V 2.5 amp power supply to the layout giving me a total of three 12V 2.5 amp power supplies connected to the tracks? Could I be losing amp strength because of the length of the layout?


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## sjm9911

Not a lot of g scale guys around! I don't know the answer, Ionly have the one g scale train. Check all the pins and connections first. Then make sure the track and wheels are clean. We'll start with that and maybe someone else will help! I'm confused do you ha e two separate power packs hooked up or one pack with two lockons?


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## BaldTbirdr

I have two separate 12 V 2.5 amp A/C adapters (each adapter is plugged into a separate electrical outlet) which are connected to two separate lockon track power connectors. The lockon track power connectors are attached so that they are at opposite ends of the oval track set up.


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## mopac

Try running one power supply but have 2 lock-ons from same power supply. 
You mentioned cleaning the track. Make sure you clean the engine wheels also.
On my G (bachmann) I have to clean the backside of the drivers. That is a pick
up point.


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## sjm9911

Did this help, I was eluding to one power pack but was unsure with dc.


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## BaldTbirdr

This Lionel set up uses their own style of Lock-on and there is no good way for two adapters/power sources to be connected to one lock-on. Not unless I cut and splice some of the power supply wires.

The Lionel uses DC to the track.

I checked the power to the track as follows:

First I checked the power to my two section (total 24" of track) test track and got the following readings. One of my A/C adapters was delivering 11.89 DC volts to the test track. My other A/C adapter was delivering 11.92 DC volts. That is pretty close to the 12 volts that the adapters rated at, but it is still not 12 DC volts.

I then checked the voltage on my 26" track set up. Using just one of the A/C adapters, I got a reading of 11.35 DC volts at a point on the track furthest from the A/C adapter. I then added the second A/C adapter and got a reading of 11.58 DC volts at a point midway between the two installed adapters.

So, I purchased a third A/C adapter. The first two that I had used were Lionel adapters but the new one is a standard 12V 2.5 amp adapter that I bought from Amazon. I tested the new adapter on the test track and it reads 12.8V right out of the box. I hooked it up to my track layout and took a reading at the half way point on the oval. I got a reading of 11.98V. But, the train still won't move. It tries, but just can't get going. And, I'm only have the tender and the engine on the track. 

So, I have to assume that the Lionel adapters are a little on the weak side when it comes to 12V adapters. I've since ordered a second adapter from Amazon, and should be getting it early this week I'll hook that one up to my second lock-on and see if that will get the train moving. I'm either losing voltage along the track or I'm losing amperage.
This is really weird. The engine runs strong on the test track, but it appears that it doesn't get enough power to run on the layout.

The next thing I'll have to check out is to find out if I'm getting a drop in amperage.


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## sjm9911

Try one power pack with two feeds, splice some wire onto the connections and just jam them under the track. I'll post pictures of what I mean tommorow. Lionel track right! I'mnot sure two power packs re ccompatible. I don't know!


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## Big Ed

My Bachmann G train will stop if the connections to the rail is not hooked right. Not the power but how the track is hooked up. I never saw any Lionel G track so I can't comment on it.


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## sjm9911

Lionel g, is just bigger tube track. Pins and all.


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## BaldTbirdr

I've checked the track connection, and they all are locked together good. Some one suggested that I try putting the tender and engine on the piece of the track oval that has the power lock on attached. That would make the train sit close to the power supply and the adapter. I did that, and the train had more than enough power to take off and run the entire length of the oval. Once started that way, the train will run the entire oval but I do notice a slow down in the engine when the train puts distance between itself and the single power supply. So, that again tells me that I'm losing voltage or amperage along the track. And, if the train is stopped at a distance from the power supply lock on, it can't get enough power to get running again. The answer has to be ... more uniform 12V 2.5 amp power throughout the entire length of the track.


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## Big Ed

Is it possible that one piece of track could be bad?


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## BaldTbirdr

I suppose that could be possible in some layouts, but I did run a continuity check on the tracks and the reading was good and strong. So, I don't think that my problem lies with the integrity of the tracks. That is not to say that the tracks can't be part of the problem however. The tracks that came with the train are the silver steel rails set in a white (snow ) plastic base. These probably maybe aren't the best tracks for conducting D/C current over a long run. But they are the tracks I have, so my challenge is to figure out how to make them work at their optimum efficiency. Obviously this is not turning out to be a very easy task.


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## sjm9911

Ok, try this. One power pack two connections to the track. This is my lionel track. Notice the groove, space in the bottom. Jump a wire from the lockon and add a additional power feed on the opposite side of the track. You can try it first by spreading the track a bit and inserting the wire. Ideally it should be soldered or another lock on should be utilized. Make sure the correct rails are energized. Try this it might work. I also use this gel in between track connections. It's also suppose to help conductivity.


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## BaldTbirdr

Thanks Dispatcher

I'll look into using the NOALOX or sure. Thanks for the great pictures. Are you working with A/C or D/C in these pictures? It probably doesn't make a difference, but I was just wondering because of the size of the wires you are using. This looks like a pretty good approach to finding a solution and I'll just have to give it a try and check it out. One power supply and two lock-ons. Using this rational, couldn't I even power up the track at say three locations and still use only one power supply?


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## sjm9911

That was my dc train. Never got to set it up this year though. I'm an o scale guy and this dc stuff is new to me also. Yes you can add more lockons, the pictures were a mock up for this. It's not actually hookedup.


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## sjm9911

Did you ever get it to work?


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## BaldTbirdr

Hi Dispatcher,

I did get the train to work after I added the second after market A/C adapter. So, I'm pretty sure that the basic problem was in the amount of voltage that was being lost due to the length of the track layout. But for now, all seems to be going along just fine. Thanks for your interest.


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## T-Man

You don't need more power adapters just supply leads. That track after studying James has weak pins. The track is square but they use O scale pins. You may have to start bending them or start to solder the section together. Not all, but the more done the better.

Make sure there are no batteries for the electronics.

For a power loss, the engine should have some operation on the track and then slow down where the power is weakess. To have a total failure is a short.

The first time I used the lockon it did not connect. If it was mine I would make my own. Jam a piece of sheet metal up from the bottom into the track bend it and solder a wire to it.

23 feet of track is large I hope you are using heavy gage wires. Those rail must be comparative to 10 or 12 gage wire. AN 18 gage may not make any difference.

ALso that track warps, I had a simple circle and it rocked, go figure.


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## sjm9911

Thanks T-man, now we know the answer for sure!


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## T-Man

I don't think it was ever meant for a large layout. since the production was limited. i am glad the owner sent me the set. I learned a lot from just seeing it. You can do the servo guy track trick and bend the pins slightly just to give it more contact. The pins could use some cleaning too. Hopefully you can get buy try to make a video when it get working properly.


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