# suggestions for proposed layout



## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

This is first attempt at creating a track plan for a permanent Christmas layout. As is now three trains can run independently.

But, asking for suggestions - - - How to improve the present layout - - - Add a trolley - - -Maybe better use of figure 8 - - - Add elevation and bridge on top track



Asking for help and or suggestions - - Thanks So Much!



Rdeal


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

In my world, elevated tracks block the view of a layout. I like the figure 8. It creates a lot of action. A trolley on a dead end track would be nice as long as you aren't concerned with the layout being too cluttered. A 27" circle with one of the Christmas type handcars would add some interest. I have one on my layout and the different handcars are popular.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Looks a little ambitious. For me two trains would be easier to manage. If you eliminate the figure 8 you have more options for trolley, bridge etc.

How does that plan fit the room? Where are the walls and will you be able to reach across the layout for the inevitable derailment or just track cleaning.


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

thanks for the responses - 

layout in basement - more that four feet on each side - love the hand car idea - and - you are correct, sir - is a bit cluttered - maybe i should work on this

rdeal


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

rdeal said:


> This is first attempt at creating a track plan for a permanent Christmas layout. ....l


I saw your post on the other forum. That layout looks a bit more interesting to me.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

How about elevating the figure 8 and expand the line like shown?
You could either add some switches (turnouts) or just expand the line.

I guess you saw this? 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=34146


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed, its similar to my layout, but I have 2 separate tracks and an ell table not. U. My only concern is how wide is the table? Is there room for the tracks close together like that? If only running one train its not a problem. I also have few sidings for accessories. You have some stuff if I remember correctly. Nice to have a few cars parked on a siding so you or someone else can activate them while the trains are running. Just something to think about.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It shares some similarities with my layout, and I've been very happy with it for nine years now. Like yours, I have three separate loops and do not connect, even through switches, to the others. Addressing another comment made here. I have no difficulty running three trains at once on three separate loops, or even four (two Lionchief Plus on the longest loop) at a time. More than that gets to demand my full attention. But three you can just set and forget. 

That said, I have a feeling you can fill in and could get more track in the space, even a fourth loop. There is a lot you have not said, such as what you plan to do with all the space left: Christmas scenes and buildings, reindeer, etc. If so its a good plan as is.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm thinking that you should really plan on some larger curves on at least one of the loops. You've limited yourself to O36 everywhere, that will limit what you can run.


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

The intent is a permanent fantasy Christmas layout – turn the trains on and let them run – the back layout area is five feet wide and the arms are four – five if need be – room to access track at any point - 

ED – like your red lines – maybe later – switches and turnouts – good idea to elevate the figure eight or elevate the track from the loop to loop, adding a bridge in the back center 

SJM – I have four Christmas trains – and – working on the fifth (top secret) – two MTH tinplate, one freight and one passenger and a Lionel new york central steam engine with four dept 56 freight cars plus a 1953 Erie seam with eight Christmas tank cars (six in hand and two pre-order)/////in addition I have the Lionel Holly Jolly Trolley two car set and also two Christmas hand cars ///// other working accessories include – an old and new beacon – three automated Christmas gate-man, gingerbread man, nutcracker and santa and some house that have moving parts – all Christmas – AND I have over 35 snow village pieces all with accessories 

LEE – thank you, we do have reindeer 

G.R.JOHN – thanks for the suggestion – I will rework the outer loop to loop and use 48 instead of 36 – even if we must widen the table just a bit – this would help the longer train / tanks cars – again thanks

Thanks again for your help 
I will post again tomorrow – widen the curves as john suggest and add (maybe a trolly)

rdeal


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You forgot to add the actual measurements?.....(below in blue). 
Edited.....I forgot there are the squares one can count.
5' widths would be better if you can.




rdeal said:


> The intent is a permanent fantasy Christmas layout – turn the trains on and let them run – the back layout area is five feet wide and the arms are four – five if need be – room to access track at any point - My table size is *17 feet or so across the back with two 12 feet arms *– U shaped – all widths are 4 or 5 feet
> 
> ED – like your red lines – maybe later – switches and turnouts – good idea to elevate the figure eight or elevate the track from the loop to loop, adding a bridge in the back center
> 
> ...


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It is not clear to me exactly how big you have or can go on benchtop, but following up Gunnerrunnerjohn's suggestion, if you can possible go to O-54 diameter curves on one loop (probably the outer one) if would open up possibilities O-48 would not. 

O-54 and wider curves are sort of a break point in diameter that gets you a monstrous set of additional possibilities: While most articulated locos require 0-72, most large non-articulated steamers - scale Northerns, etc., and many many of the best passenger cars being offered now (most actually)you may want to run in the future, are advertised as requiring O-54. In fact some (many) "O-54-requirement" locos and cars will run on O-48 as long as they don't have to pass through 0-48 switches and everything is just perfect with the installation of the O-48 track, but why take the chance. I did not see what type of track you were using, some types (Fastrack) don't come in 54, forcing you to move up to 60, but others do.


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

*layout redrawn*

i have redrawn the layout - please note the following:

1. i would have added Ed's red lines but did not know how
2. taking j.r.john's suggestion - i changed the outer loop to loop from 36 to 48 (left side only-i will change the right side later)
3. add a trolley line - used 27 tubular - got a bit carried away - but can be changed later 

again thanks for help and suggestions

rdeal


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Bigger curves are nice, my biggest regret with my layout is not going to 072. Is the trolley going to go over or under the tracks?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I still like Ed's idea of melding that figure-8 into the other run and just making it a longer run.


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

*adding larger curves*

thanks everyone

THANKS, BIG ED: yes, the measurement are 17 feet or so across the back with two 12 feet arms – U shaped – all widths are 4 or 5 feet / the back can not be narrowed but the two side wings can be extended 

G.R.John & SJM9911 – the latest layout drawing includes all 48 degree curves on the loop to loop – I tried but could not do more – 

Trolley – it is level with the layout – I hope to program the “set up” – trolley will stop and weight for train to pass – that would be so cool 

Figure eight – I took it out – I tried to incorporate it into the layout and link it to the inner loop – but I could not do it – as a result I have two rather long runs – this could be fun

When removing the figure eight – I added a 31 degree track for a hand car – 

Now What Do We Think?

Thanks, rdeal


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

This is my layout ( a bit unused of late) just as an idea. I got sidings with a house track, Milk platform etc. You could tie it in to your x mass theme , chocolate milk factory, candy cane log dump, etc.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Your proposed plan is looking better. You show a long, meandering track, part of which is inside the upper middle loop, that just quits at each end. At the least I would link it with switches at each end to the nearest loop. At best you could find a way to complete it as a loop (not sure that is feasible, but.


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

L.WILLIS - i think you are speaking of the trolley - hoping to engineer the track so that it will correspond with one or two streets - so the finial trolley line must wait


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

*another layout drawing*

i have added 48 degree turns to out side loop - also added a circle hand-car track - and reworked center loop to make two loops - - - therefore we can run "three trains", the trolley and the hand car - all at once - fun, excitement and noise

and now a question - how much manageable rise in track can i get from point A to B - i would like to use a bridge and either MTH or Lionel trestle - not sure is there is enough track to make it happen

again i ask for your help and suggestions

rdeal


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

rdeal said:


> L.WILLIS - i think you are speaking of the trolley - hoping to engineer the track so that it will correspond with one or two streets - so the finial trolley line must wait


Yeah, it looks like a trolley line. Still, if you add switches near the end (with them straight the trolley can still bumg and go back and forth, with them switched you can run onto and over your loops, it adds a dimension. Worthy thinking about. I had a trolley for a while and liking it. Still have a few on the shelf and am thinking about putting in a short line again, if I can fit it in.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

rdeal said:


> When removing the figure eight – I added a 31 degree track for a hand car –
> 
> Now What Do We Think?
> 
> Thanks, rdeal


My hand car track is set up for visitors to operate. I just use a 45 watt transformer. Of course, they run it at notch 8. It was a popular addition to my layout.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd see about some yard space to park a couple of inactive trains. Also, here's a couple of other suggestions.









What's in the big open area? Any chance of making this an "around the room" layout and having a lift bridge or a drop-down for entry? That would allow larger curves and really open up a lot of possibilities.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I think Gunrunnerjohn had good suggestions in both cases. The crossover swtiches will allow a lot of operating flexibility, and connecting the "trolley" to the mainline will prove useful too (I'd do it at the other end, too.)


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

my latest effort at working on the layout - i can make track adjustment later, i do not have the computer skills to do this with the drawing program


"A" this area to be discussed later

"B" interesting, four tracks closely laid - 1)top loop to loop, elevated - 2) hand car point to point and 3)&4) two single loops with the trains running in opposite directions

"C" trolley - changing direction - looking for ways to hid ends of track

"D" hand car track - could be shortened

"E" suggestion was made - larger curves - the outside point to point is 48 - all other curves are 36 - my christmas train are all tinplate - i think i will be okay


if you have suggestions or criticisms or the name of a good english ale - please chime in


thanks so much for your help - rdeal


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Just seeing your red writing.
Cool........but the writing sort of looks like it came out of a Stephen King novel. 

Don't worry mine would look the same, it is hard trying to write with the paint.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)




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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

thanks so much for all your help
switches will be added later

reworked to make running as simple as possible - three trains - two hand cars and one trolley

please make suggestions

rdeal


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

that is looking really good. I have no suggestions, other that fine-tuning will probably occur to you as you build it, so don't overcommit by glueing down stuff of making it hard to re-locate as you initially get into it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Why not make that center loop longer?
Why shorten the hand car track, why not make it longer?


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

*another layout drawing*

One More Take:

Big Ed – took your suggestion and lengthen both the raised track and the handcar track
Lee Willis – good idea thanks for the suggestion
G.R.John – bear with me – I am learning – slowly but surly

Please note - dogbone is a raised track

Three trains – three handcars – one trolley – and a partridge in a pear tree

Your suggestions and comments are most welcome and helpful and needed

Thanks rdeal


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You better stop thinking and start building. 
Christmas will be here before you know it. 

I don't know how many or where you buildings will go but it looks like you could expand the trolley line further?
I see the room.

But this is just an observation, in the end it is your RR. 
I would imagine that some of your plans are still locked away in your memory banks........or on paper? And I can't see them.

I think it is looking better each time you post.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

*enon rework*

getting ready to continue work on table - 

added more trolley as was suggested
and
i know modifications must be made to accommodate structures

thanks so much for help 

rdeal

as always, comments are very much appreciated


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Probably bucking a decision already made, but I'd make some provision for connecting some of those loops. Connecting the big loops gives you some switching possibilities. Also, you have no provision for any yard space, it would be nice to have a few sidings to part things on.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

For now John, I think he just wanted continuous running?

What is with the monopoly board?

I like the expanded trolley line.


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

*enon rework*

G.R.John - "Mr. Ed" - Oops - i meant big ed - when i make a mistake like that, it gives me a long face
john - ed is correct - continuous running for the moment - but you are so correct in saying that it needs one of more sidetracks for storage - lee suggests adjustment as track is laid - 

why the monopoly board you asked - (with a green frown) - sure hope that is a christmas green - note Christmas at Enon - this is a layout/throw back to my childhood - and growing my brother and my parents played monopoly almost every weekend - did you notice the M&M hand car - it is there because before the monopoly game my brother and i divided up a big bag of M&M's between the four of us - and when we heard the M&M rumors - we discretely gave our parents the green ones - and there are more childhood memories to be discovered

thanks for you help and suggestions 
your are a great group of guys
rdeal


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Looking good. As expected, I like the handcar loop. With some scenery, you will get the ultimate compliment I received once. A visitor said, "I don't know where to look."


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

*enon rework*

thank you dave - "A visitor said, 'I don't know where to look.' " 

I will make this my goal - and my "motto"

rdeal


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