# Marx-Tronic Train with the Brain rehab



## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

I have a Max-Tronics set that I found in my Grandfather's attic that I would like to rehab. It is all in good shape EXCEPT the locomotive (of course).

The body is fine, but inside is a corroded mess. The motor itself looks OK, but everything else is pretty rusty. I was going to give it a shot reviving it, but I was wondering if it is worth it. Looking at some other threads, it seems like it isn't the easiest to work on, so with it in such bad shape, I'd hate to go down a rabbit hole on this project.

I was wondering if I was going to have to cut my losses and maybe see if I can find replacement innards for it?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

"Worth it" is the key term in your post. "Worth" is an individualized value judgement based on what must be given up to obtain the desired end. So no one but you can decide if it is "worth it"

As an intellectual and engineering challenge, or as nostalgia to see if your grandfathers train can live again, it might be fun to try. There are some partial sets and non-operating ones on eBay that you could cannibalize for parts. 

And incidentally, it's a "Marx-Tronic" not "Max-Tronic".

Which leads to the other side of the equation. If you have decided to get into the hobby of model railroading and think this is a good starting point. Don't bother with it. Get new stuff that will be compatible with what is made today and therefore expandable. Marx was always "toy quality" stuff, and wouldn't serve you way as a starting point for a layout that runs well and is fun to operate.

Your choice, but you have lots of options whichever way you choose. Good luck!


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

Let me start by saying that this is a well articulated post that should be a sticky somewhere as it applies to all new people to the hobby!



> "Worth it" is the key term in your post. "Worth" is an individualized value judgement based on what must be given up to obtain the desired end. So no one but you can decide if it is "worth it"


True. I guess for me, I would say, I would love to revive my Grandfather's train (which since it was made in '59, it would have been my Dad's, but he doesn't remember it at all), but I don't want to go crazy on it since it is a toy train (as you mention) that can be grabbed for $65 - $85 on eBay depending on the season.



> As an intellectual and engineering challenge, or as nostalgia to see if your grandfathers train can live again, it might be fun to try. There are some partial sets and non-operating ones on eBay that you could cannibalize for parts.


I would be fine with buying the guts all-in-one for the loco and doing a wholesale change-over and keeping the rest of the kit intact, but I haven't been able to find that option yet. I would be willing to give the rehab a try, but I am worried that the rust has made it a non-starter (I should try to get some pics online to show the situation) and that would be the rabbit-hole I would dive down.



> And incidentally, it's a "Marx-Tronic" not "Max-Tronic".


Typo on my part, the funny thing is that I usually misspell tronic as tronix, not the marx portion of the name.



> Which leads to the other side of the equation. If you have decided to get into the hobby of model railroading and think this is a good starting point. Don't bother with it. Get new stuff that will be compatible with what is made today and therefore expandable. Marx was always "toy quality" stuff, and wouldn't serve you way as a starting point for a layout that runs well and is fun to operate.


I am actually considering getting into the hobby with some 3-rail O-scale trains from my Grandfather's attic (just a couple, but I thought I would build off of them), this was just a neat little set that I thought I could rehab.

I'll post some pics to see if you guys think, "holy cow, that thing is more than beyond repair", or if you've seen worse. Sadly, I don't think I can use the guts from any other locos as this one was uses for this specific "train with the brain" functionality. So I think I am hoping to find an incomplete set with a functioning locomotive.

Thanks for all the insights!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, I've seen some real disaster cases that have been revived to look like new, so it's certainly possible I suspect. The train looks interesting, it's a mini-marvel of mechanics for the time.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> FWIW, I've seen some real disaster cases that have been revived to look like new, so it's certainly possible I suspect. The train looks interesting, it's a mini-marvel of mechanics for the time.


I agree. I am actually and Ele. Eng., so am very comfortable with the electronic side of things and command/control. But I am constantly amazed by what can be done purely mechanically and humbled by what people figured out years ago for cheap (money-wise). As a person with a masters, it is truly humbling to see that train knowing-full well that I would have over-complicated the heck out of it with microcontrollers and all sort of electronic parts. I tip my hat to those folks!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, I'm kinda' the guy that looks to the fancy electronic solutions too, but I do appreciate the mechanical side of things as well.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> FWIW, I've seen some real disaster cases that have been revived to look like new, so it's certainly possible I suspect. The train looks interesting, it's a mini-marvel of mechanics for the time.


We do it with the real ones, too. In just four years, this:









Can become this:









If you think it's worth trying to restore, then cost and time spent be damned! But you have to be willing to accept that you might sink quite a bit of time and money into it before it does run again. Anything is possible, given enough of both.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

Looks great, bet that was a rough clean up.

Looks about as rusty as mine is.

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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

toozie21 said:


> Looks great, bet that was a rough clean up.
> 
> Looks about as rusty as mine is.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


She's great, and she's a dream to run.

She was more than just rusty, though: she was in a roundhouse fire, which destroyed the cab and burned most of the lagging off the boiler. Much of the metal that was not part of the boiler was warped by the heat.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

Here are some pics to show you its sorry state









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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd knock off the loose surface rust and then dunk it in EvapoRust, you'd be AMAZED at what comes out in a few hours!


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd knock off the loose surface rust and then dunk it in EvapoRust, you'd be AMAZED at what comes out in a few hours!


Wow, that stuff is pretty interesting, and PepBoys has it in stock for $14 right now.

I did some research and I could see other model railroad folks using it, but does anyone on here have a feeling about dunking the whole thing motor and all? It sounded like from other posts that people were fairly comfortable doing it, I just wanted to double check.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Take some pictures of the results. Your staring with a pretty disreputable looking rusty mess, I want to be impressed!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I managed to clean up some locomotives that had survived the Sandy floods and then sat in a box for months! They were a mess, and I dunked the whole power truck assembly, motor and all. It didn't damage the motor, and I didn't lose any motors. YMMV, but I was impressed by the results.

I would knock off the loose rust, no reason to make the stuff work harder than it has to.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

I just checked and the motor actually seems to run fine when hooked up to my bench-top supply. So there is a glimmer of sunshine.

I bought the rust stuff last week, but something is going on with my account ans it STILL hasn't shipped....

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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

Any issues with uaing this instead of evapo-rust: http://www.lowes.com/pd_650811-30004-357_4294937087?productId=50335277

Is it just as safe on the motor?

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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Never tried it, don't know what's in it. I know EvapoRust works, so I'd probably be unlikely to try something else unless there was a good reason.

EvapoRust is also a few bucks cheaper than that stuff at Home Depot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Evapo-Rust-1-gal-Safe-Rust-Remover-ER012/206639586


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

I was being lazy . I was going to be at lowes and was trying to avoid a second trip last night. I got a jug at Pep Boys because there was a discount if you bought online. It cost me $16 in the end.

I started the soak process this morning. Unfortunately, my tupperware wasn't as tall as I thought, but the other side can be soaked next. I am looking forward to seeing how it turned out tonight!!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We'll look forward to the results.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> We'll look forward to the results.


If I've read up on the steps properly, I need to rinse the train off and then dry it really well, right?

I believe I read about some people tossing it in an oven on the lowest temp, but that scares me a bit....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, you will need to rinse off the unit. For this one, I can't imagine the lowest heat on the oven damaging it, there's no plastic I see that might melt.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

Got home to some dark solution. I probably could have kept using it for a while, but I decided to dump it, rinse the train, and put fresh solution in.

Hoping tomorrow will look better.









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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's why I mentioned knocking the loose rust off first. No reason to make the solution work on rust that can be removed with a simple brushing.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

Yep, and I certainly knew it made sense and even told my old man that that was my plan.

But..... I got excited and lazy when I got home late last night with the solution that I just dunked the whole thing on the way out the door this morning.

Certainly not one of my more finer moments, but, what can I say 

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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can continue on, it's just more expensive to chemically dissolve all that rust as opposed to only dissolving the stuff that's actually still part of the metal.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

24 more hours and a few more updated pics (don't mean to flood the thread, but I think it is kind of cool to see the progress and someone else might find value in it).

These were from overnight, so it has now been 24 hours and two tupperwre containers of solution. I rinsed and cleaned with a toothbrush. Something a little harder would have been better, but I had the toothbrush on the workbench, so it was easy to get to and I didn't have to worry about accidentally ripping out a wire. Speaking of wires, it looks like the two black ones have come undone. My guess is that the batter acid had gotten to them and they were being held together via rust. I'll have to tack them back in place later.

It is getting better. It is interesting to see the line on the vertical section where the motor is mounted showing where the solution stopped. I have it in the tub again, but this time I am reusing the fluid that was already in there.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That one was REALLY rusty!  When I do something like this, I try to scrape as much of the surface rust off before I dunk it, makes the process go faster.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

Sadly, not the first time I skipped over sage advice due to being impatient to get started .


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

BTW, I have never looked inside the case for the train, but I am assuming that the negative terminal for what I assume is a D-cell battery is attached to the front and makes contact with some sort of plate?

Based on the image at this point in this video, I don't see how else it would work (I of course will look into it when I get home tonight): https://youtu.be/QcOcQ66iRKg?t=17

My set of course does not include directions, so everything I've figured out for how to assemble it has been from youtube videos (thank goodness for the internet).


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

toozie21 said:


> Wow, that stuff is pretty interesting, and PepBoys has it in stock for $14 right now.
> 
> I did some research and I could see other model railroad folks using it, but does anyone on here have a feeling about dunking the whole thing motor and all? It sounded like from other posts that people were fairly comfortable doing it, I just wanted to double check.



Simple 5% vinegar will give same results for a whole lot less money.
I would however maybe remove the motor, I'm not sure how the winding's may be effected by the vinegar. Soak submerged for 24 hours, rinse in clear water, blow dry. Reinstall the motor, lube and you are ready to go.

Dan


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Panther said:


> Simple 5% vinegar will give same results for a whole lot less money.
> I would however maybe remove the motor, I'm not sure how the winding's may be effected by the vinegar. Soak submerged for 24 hours, rinse in clear water, blow dry. Reinstall the motor, lube and you are ready to go.
> 
> Dan


Au contraire, that is not so! Vinegar is a simple acid, and it attacks anything that suits it's fancy. EvapoRust is a specific chemical compound that combines with iron oxide only, it doesn't go after everything.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

toozie21 said:


> BTW, I have never looked inside the case for the train, but I am assuming that the negative terminal for what I assume is a D-cell battery is attached to the front and makes contact with some sort of plate?
> 
> Based on the image at this point in this video, I don't see how else it would work (I of course will look into it when I get home tonight):


Actually, the operation is bog simple for what's on this video. Look closely at the switch. The locomotive has an actuator peg that switches the switch after it passes, so each time it goes the opposite way. Take note of the pegs on the switch each time the train passes.


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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, the operation is bog simple for what's on this video. Look closely at the switch. The locomotive has an actuator peg that switches the switch after it passes, so each time it goes the opposite way. Take note of the pegs on the switch each time the train passes.
> 
> View attachment 472448


I am referring to the battery connections. I cannot see where the negative terminal connection would be, so I am wondering if that piece of metal was eaten away in storage by the battery acid....

In the YouTube link i had above, it looks like a similar style loco, but it isn't at the right angle to see what should be there.

I've also been referencing these pics of a clean unit and they don't have a good shot of it either!

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/marx-tronic-battery-powered-train

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## toozie21 (Nov 3, 2018)

An overdue update. I've had the motor side of the unit soaking for a couple of days and I finally just decided to stop it. There is some "rust" that won't come off, but I am suspecting that it some other material instead. I rinsed it off well and tossed it in some tupperware with a reusable dissacant device.

There appears to be some flash rust (if I am using the right term), so I might have to figure out something to rub onto the metal to keep that from happening all over. It actually looks in better shape than the pics show, I am pretty happy with the results.

Now to figure out how to power the thing while it is drying out.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

After the rust removal, you should be painting pretty quickly for anything that is to be painted. I'd probably just use a Dremel wire wheel or similar to clean off the remaining rust. For non-painted surfaces, perhaps some wax or the like (except for the drive wheels).


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