# tooter goes big time...



## tooter

There isn't a catagory for 7 1/2 inch gauge riding trains so I'll put the thread here because at least it's an outdoor train like the description says. 

I'm starting to build a flat car so that there will be something to roll around on the track to test it while I'm installing it. The frame is made of one inch steel box section from Home Depot.




























Next step will be finding some springs for the suspension.

Greg


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## tjcruiser

Wow ... I'm impressed, already.

Do you do welding onsite?!?

What's up with those wheels and axle gear? Stock stuff from some mfr?

(No welding in the flip-flops though, OK? Safety first!  )

Cheers,

TJ


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## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Wow ... I'm impressed, already.
> 
> Do you do welding onsite?!?


Yes, but I'm a *terrible* welder. :laugh:

I just tacked the frame together so that it will stay straight long enough to take it to the local muffler shop so they can weld it up proper.



> What's up with those wheels and axle gear? Stock stuff from some mfr?


No, I had them add the gears so that I can make something else out of them later. This is what I had in mind, except larger for an adult...















> (No welding in the flip-flops though, OK? Safety first!  )
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


Ah, I see they showed up in the photo. As a matter of fact I did weld in rafting sandals because I don't wear shoes. 

Greg


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## kursplat

choo choo said:


> Ah, I see they showed up in the photo. As a matter of fact I did weld in rafting sandals because I don't wear shoes.
> 
> Greg


 :laugh: in my house, those are safety shoes


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## sstlaure

FWIW Greg....the small wirefeed MIG welders you can get at Home Depot, etc aren't that hard to use. I've got a Lincoln. If you get them with the Argon/CO2 gas mix it's pretty easy. For about $300 you can find a decent unit on craigslist that will run on 110V and be able to due anything up to 1/8" thick (thicker if you make multiple passes). I love the versatility of having my own welder - I would think it to be invaluable if you were building a 7 1/2" gauge railroad. Heck - I'd make a welder car!


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## NIMT

Scott....SHHHHH!!!! 
Your giving away all my secrets and you going to put me out of work with Greg!
I have a Miller MIG welder and I can weld up to 1/2" with mine!
I'm in the middle of repairs on the snow blower right now! I better hurry it up it's supposed to snow tonight!
I don't know what I would do without mine either!


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## raleets

The only welding I've ever accomplished is when I turned the oven too high on the B-B-Q spareribs! 
What a site that was........just like a lump of coal 
Yep, I took Mama out to dinner. :thumbsup:
Bob


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## tooter

sstlaure said:


> FWIW Greg....the small wirefeed MIG welders you can get at Home Depot, etc aren't that hard to use. I've got a Lincoln. If you get them with the Argon/CO2 gas mix it's pretty easy. For about $300 you can find a decent unit on craigslist that will run on 110V and be able to due anything up to 1/8" thick (thicker if you make multiple passes). I love the versatility of having my own welder - I would think it to be invaluable if you were building a 7 1/2" gauge railroad. Heck - I'd make a welder car!


I just have a small 40 year old oxy-acetelyne torch. It welds better than I do.


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## tooter

NIMT said:


> Scott....SHHHHH!!!!
> Your giving away all my secrets and you going to put me out of work with Greg!
> I have a Miller MIG welder and I can weld up to 1/2" with mine!
> I'm in the middle of repairs on the snow blower right now! I better hurry it up it's supposed to snow tonight!
> I don't know what I would do without mine either!


Don't sweat it, Sean. 

With your creative abilities,
you'll *always* have work.:thumbsup:


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## raleets

Choo Choo,
You're not kiddin'....Sean could probably weld snow! 
Bob


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## sstlaure

A deal like this would work great. Even has the bottle which will run you $100 just for that. $250 gets it. Chicks dig guys that can melt steel with electricity.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/tls/2683824368.html


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## tooter

raleets said:


> Choo Choo,
> You're not kiddin'....Sean could probably weld snow!
> Bob


I know. 

Sean has rare qualities that used to be commonplace in America when people were self reliant.

Greg


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## gunrunnerjohn

I prefer the oxyacetylene rig, you can cut, braze, and weld. I've never tried stuff like aluminum, for that you need one of the inert gas welders I would imagine.


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## tooter

Hey John, 

Gas welding has been fine for the times I've needed to use it.:thumbsup:

Choo choo's got *TRACK*... 

Yesterday I spent the afternoon and evening loading and hauling 744 pounds of steel rail and 1,200 pounds of railroad ties... 










That's just a tiny fraction of the ties as there's still a 1,000 pounds in boxes. The wye still isn't done but it's promised to be ready on Thursday. It's raining so I'll be working on the rail car under the house.


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## kursplat

lookin' good. have you got the rock and started the road bed yet?


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## tooter

kursplat said:


> lookin' good. have you got the rock and started the road bed yet?


Don't need to because our ground is already a natural ballast... 










...so I'm just going to dig down the depth of the ties, rake out the big rocks, drop in the track, and put the smaller rocks back between the ties.


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## tjcruiser

choo choo said:


> It's raining so I'll be working on the rail car under the house.


Now THAT's what you need: a rail tunnel UNDER the house! 

Track pieces look great, Greg. We're all very, VERY jealous, of course ...

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

This is going to be REALLY cool!  :thumbsup: Can't wait to see some finished track!


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## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Now THAT's what you need: a rail tunnel UNDER the house!
> 
> Track pieces look great, Greg. We're all very, VERY jealous, of course ...
> 
> TJ


It took years of hard work to squirrel away the extra money for the railroad... so now I get to *play*. 

My wife and I are very frugal and live a simple rustic "pioneer" lifestyle doing without many of the things that most people need to feel secure and protected... but the upside of this austerity is the freedom to explore other "outside the box" ventures which are outside normal people's experience, like the railroad. 

I live by a simple American Capitalist value:

If I want the *freedom* to do whatever I want,
I need only to *work* to *earn* the money to *buy* it.


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## gunrunnerjohn

What a concept, work for what you have.  Too bad our leaders don't subscribe to that simple concept.


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## raleets

And away we go "into the wild blue yonder" on the Dumbo Jet! 
Let's just print some more money 'cause that will take care of everything, right? BTW, where's my latest "stimulating check"? I need it quick to buy some more train stuff. :laugh:
Bob


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## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What a concept, work for what you have.  Too bad our leaders don't subscribe to that simple concept.


Thank God they're not my leaders... so it's their loss not mine because Americans lead themselves. 
In fact, if there were still enough Americans in America today, the government would be created in their industrious image...

...but since there aren't, it isn't. 

Working to earn the money to buy your freedom is a really old fashioned American idea that has become generally regarded with ridicule... which, of course, is why America has become just another dime a dozen unproductive insolvent debtor nation.

Even though it's been raining today, I was able to get the rest of the railroad ties got unloaded... whew. 










Put the pull car on the tracks just to see how it fits even though it's not railworthy yet...


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## gunrunnerjohn

Needs a roof.


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## tooter

It needs everything... 

It's going to be a little grey hand powered pull handle Maintenence of Way vehicle for track laying. The back half will be a combination seat and toolbox with a hinged lid. The box will be able to hold a screw gun, hardware, and hand tools for connecting the rails. And there will be a rack on back to hold a hammer and a hand hoe.


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## kursplat

choo choo said:


> Don't need to because our ground is already a natural ballast...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...so I'm just going to dig down the depth of the ties, rake out the big rocks, drop in the track, and put the smaller rocks back between the ties.



:laugh: looks like you live on The Rock


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## tooter

kursplat said:


> :laugh: looks like you live on The Rock


We quite literally do. 
Sorted out that pile from jackhammering out a basement. When they drilled our septic pit is was rocks all the way down 50+ feet.

Ballast?... we don't need no stinking ballast!


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## NIMT

Me thinks some dynamite or C4 might come in handy!


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## kursplat

NIMT said:


> Me thinks some dynamite or C4 might come in handy!


 i see this RR is going to have a gravel quarry spur and some hoppers :thumbsup:


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## NIMT

kursplat said:


> i see this RR is going to have a gravel quarry spur and some hoppers :thumbsup:


Nope.. just Choo Choo a flat car and a couple of 5 gallon buckets!


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## tankist

Greg, lol. where do you pull these pics from :laugh:


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## tooter

I go to the *Google* search page, click on *Images *in the black toolbar on top, then type in whatever subject I want a picture of... and *hundreds* of them pop up. 

In that case I searched for:

"We don't need no stinking badges."

And tons of pictures of Rick Garcia in "Blazing Saddles" pop up. 

You can also search for videos in the same way, but I use YouTube's search function for that because it's better.

Greg


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## kursplat

choo choo said:


> I go to the *Google* search page, click on *Images *in the black toolbar on top, then type in whatever subject I want a picture of... and *hundreds* of them pop up.
> 
> In that case I searched for:
> 
> "We don't need no stinking badges."
> 
> And tons of pictures of Rick Garcia in "Blazing Saddles" pop up.
> 
> You can also search for videos in the same way, but I use YouTube's search function for that because it's better.
> 
> Greg


carefull if the wife or kids are looking over your shoulder. i don't care how innocent the search, _some_ picture will end up being inappropriate 
then you got some splainin' to do

:laugh:


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## tooter

Yeah... even if you scroll through enough Rick Garcia pictures, you're gonna come across some skin.:laugh:

The valve springs came today so I installed them... 





































They work great! 
...with some initial give that quickly gets really stiff. The vehicle doesn't need a lot of travel, just some controlled give so that the wheels can follow the irregularities in the rails. The valve springs even have internal coiled damper sleeves to control the compression and rebound.


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## tjcruiser

Hey Greg,

Great progress! Are you following some standard design, or improvising with your own creativity? I ask in specific regard to the use of the valve springs ... nice idea ... stiff, but with some flex. Is there a pin/rod inside them to keep them more or less in-column?

Also, in a sample pic of a car you had above, there was a gear on only one axle. I see yours has a gear on each axle. What's the skinny on that?

Can you share your source for wheels? (Just in case future MTF'ers want to have derby races at some point down the track!)

Thanks!

TJ


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## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Hey Greg,
> 
> Great progress! Are you following some standard design, or improvising with your own creativity?


There's no such thing as a standard design, so I'm winging it and putting together ideas from projects that others have built.



> I ask in specific regard to the use of the valve springs ... nice idea ... stiff, but with some flex. Is there a pin/rod inside them to keep them more or less in-column?


I can't take credit for that... it was Sean's idea, and it worked like a *charm!* :thumbsup:

Haven't installed retainers yet, but they will be simple washers at each end which are smaller in diameter than the springs and will hold them properly in position. These are really stiff V8 engine valve springs, so they stay in column all by themselves. The washers are just to keep them from "migrating".



> Also, in a sample pic of a car you had above, there was a gear on only one axle. I see yours has a gear on each axle. What's the skinny on that?


I'm gearing both axles for maximum traction when climbing steep grades. I'm also hoping that it will be able to pull a small 36 inch long flat car behind it. It should be arriving any day now. 



> Can you share your source for wheels? (Just in case future MTF'ers want to have derby races at some point down the track!)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> TJ


Sure. 

Those are the very finest quality precision bearing IBLS standards railroad wheels made...










The geared wheel sets are $275 per axle, and are made by Dan O'brien at:

http://www.railridersupply.com/

Their machine shop is only 40 miles from my house, so I went there and talked with Dan Sr. when I picked them up. I got to see his steam engine that he built from scratch. He's an old school machinist and the quality of his work is impeccable. He and his son, Dan Junior, run the shop.

Greg


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## tjcruiser

Greg,

Thanks for the very detailed info above ... much appreciated.

You're incredibly lucky to have the "wheel guy" so close to your home. Nothing like some one-on-one "kicking the tires" talk to gather tips / experience from the pros.

Keep us posted!

TJ


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## sstlaure

Too cool Greg. If the ride ends up being too harsh, you could always use a rear mountain bike shock or seatpost shock under the seat (pivot at the front, shock at the rear) Even something off of a Huffy level bike (i.e. free or close to it) would work.


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## tooter

sstlaure said:


> Too cool Greg. If the ride ends up being too harsh, you could always use a rear mountain bike shock or seatpost shock under the seat (pivot at the front, shock at the rear) Even something off of a Huffy level bike (i.e. free or close to it) would work.


It won't be. 
The suspension is not for comfort, but to make the wheels compliant enough to accurately track changes in the attitude of the track without the flanges climbing up from the inside surface of the rails and derailing. 
Trains aren't like off road riding.  They're precision steel wheels rolling on 10 foot continuous sections of smooth steel rail tops.


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## sstlaure

I know I've watched those videos of the terror trolly speed rides and she didn't look like a comfortable ride. It's too cool that you're building this.

I've got 4 acres and could go absolutely nuts with something like this, but I think my wife would kill me. She's already pretty tolerant of my current layout plans so I don't think I'll push my luck.

Seeing as how you're using valve springs (chevy smallblock?) 

You mentioned washers to keep the springs centered - have you thought about valve spring retainers? maybe a little more expensive but they do a great job in valvetrain of keeping everything straight.....

http://paceperformance.com/i-6042259-steel-valve-spring-retainers-competition-cams-787-16.html


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## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thanks for the very detailed info above ... much appreciated.
> 
> You're incredibly lucky to have the "wheel guy" so close to your home. Nothing like some one-on-one "kicking the tires" talk to gather tips / experience from the pros.
> 
> Keep us posted!
> 
> TJ


Thanks, tj, I will. This was totally a confluence of events... so I just followed the good omens. 

Right now the "track guy" is in the process of moving his factory only 40 miles from us. I picked up my track order from where he lives which was even closer. As he was moving inventory down here, he also brought down the track order, and as a favor saved me about $600 on freight costs. It took two trips because the total weight was about a 2,000 pounds. And I'm going back again on Thursday to pick up the switch track.

I can't tell you yet exactly what I saw when I first met the guy from RMI to pick up my track order, but I can tell you that it *blew my mind*. 

*Never* in my life have I seen such industrious American creativity!

Greg


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## tooter

sstlaure said:


> I know I've watched those videos of the terror trolly speed rides and she didn't look like a comfortable ride. It's too cool that you're building this.


"Terror trolley"... that's funny! :laugh:

But did you see the track? I think the uncomfortability was mostly the fear of loss of life. I sure hope I can do better.



> I've got 4 acres and could go absolutely nuts with something like this, but I think my wife would kill me. She's already pretty tolerant of my current layout plans so I don't think I'll push my luck.


Wow... 4 whole acres! What a luxury of potential railroad space. I only have 1/4 acre so the oval can only be about 40x 60.

Just get a few pieces of track, put them on your land, and see if she notices. 



> Seeing as how you're using valve springs (chevy smallblock?)


I don't know. They're just over an inch in diameter. I just got the cheapest ones I could find on ebay since I'm adapting them to an unintended use which is *far* below their mechanical capacity. 



> You mentioned washers to keep the springs centered - have you thought about valve spring retainers? maybe a little more expensive but they do a great job in valvetrain of keeping everything straight.....
> 
> http://paceperformance.com/i-6042259-steel-valve-spring-retainers-competition-cams-787-16.html


Ebay had sets which included retainers, but they were a lot more expensive. Simple washers are way cheaper and they'll get the job done. It's not like the springs are going to be ocilliating thousands of times per minute.


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## sstlaure

For what you're using them for, you could even use junkyard springs and get them from a pick-and-pull parts place for next to nothing with the retainers included. (If you decide to expand your rolling stock that may be a good route to go)

Property is cheap here in the Detroit area and I was fortunate enough to pick this up at a great deal (lost on the house I sold, but it was a trade I was willing to go with.) Reduced the size of the house and increased the property.

I could spend a fortune filling up my yard.:laugh:

Front yard goes all the way to the pole at the corner and the farthest line of trees










Back yard directly behind the house










Far back yard - future location of 12x20 shed and 40x60 pole barn. Yard goes all the way to the trees in the distance.


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## NIMT

Nice spread you got there Scott! Looks to be fairly flat with lots of usable land! 4 acres is a lot of land to work with!
I agree with Choo Choo set up some tracks and See if she notices!:laugh:
I have 12.58 acres and we are looking to expand! I'm looking at 40 to 60 acres for our next place. Small house just a lot of land and one huge train Building!


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## tooter

sstlaure said:


> For what you're using them for, you could even use junkyard springs and get them from a pick-and-pull parts place for next to nothing with the retainers included. (If you decide to expand your rolling stock that may be a good route to go)
> 
> Property is cheap here in the Detroit area and I was fortunate enough to pick this up at a great deal (lost on the house I sold, but it was a trade I was willing to go with.) Reduced the size of the house and increased the property.


*Nice* place, Scott. :thumbsup:
That's the magic of parity... if you sell low, you get to buy low. More land and less house is always a better deal.

Man, I can see tracks *all over* that gently rolling well manicured terrain. If you sink the ties, the rails are only an inch high, so you can run a properly set mower right over them.

I filed square holes in the box frame so that the heads of the carriage bolts go down tight and flush now...










...this really firmed up the axle assemblies.

Also cut some plywood for a deck on the MOW car, and am starting to assemble the first track section. It's slow going as I'm learning a method of how to do it...



















Wow, the car really rolls easy. There is *no* rolling resistance, and even on a small slope in just a few feet, the car accelerates rapidly. This is going to be one scary ride. Maybe I'll call it Terror Trolley Two! :laugh:


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## tjcruiser

Are those some sort of molded plastic / pvc ties??? Ya' got about a billion of 'em there!

So what set the actual track gauge at each tie? Is the gauge pre-molded into the tie in way of where the dogs are attached???

Cheers,

TJ


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## NIMT

Greg, might I suggest installing a set of brakes next!


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## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Are those some sort of molded plastic / pvc ties??? Ya' got about a billion of 'em there!
> 
> So what set the actual track gauge at each tie? Is the gauge pre-molded into the tie in way of where the dogs are attached???
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


There's over 700 ties...
...and they are made out of some kind of hard molded composite. The gauge is 7 1/2 inches, but the combination tie plates and rail gauge are 7 5/8 inches because the curve radius is only 12 1/2 feet...








...I was advised that the extra width helps on the curves. Oh, and the gauge is measured from *inside* rail edge to *inside* rail edge, and not from center to center.

Greg


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## NIMT

What do you have to cut the rails? A cut off saw would be the best tool or maybe a ginder with a cutoff wheel. I also have carbide blades for my sawzall but they get too hot on thick steel!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Too bad you're so far away, I'd love to check this out in person!


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## tankist

wow. just wow.


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## tooter

NIMT said:


> Greg, might I suggest installing a set of brakes next!


Yeah, Sean... for now I have to keep magnets wedged under the wheels or the little cart flies right off the end. :laugh:

Now I understand *why* railroads are so efficient at moving heavy freight. A steel wheel rolling on a steel rail is *incredibly* energy efficient.


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## tooter

NIMT said:


> What do you have to cut the rails?


One of these...









A 12 Amp Orbital stroke Milwaukee Sawzall.



> A cut off saw would be the best tool or maybe a ginder with a cutoff wheel. I also have carbide blades for my sawzall but they get too hot on thick steel!


Regular hacksaw blades cut just fine. The trick is to use a little oil for cooling and lubrication and cut slow so the blades don't get too hot and lose their temper.


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## tooter

tankist said:


> wow. just wow.


Wait till you see the wye turnout, Anton...
It'll be ready to pick up in two days.

Greg


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## NIMT

Does your Wye come with the switch stand?


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## tooter

No, just a simple kick lever. I had seen a really neato cast rotating signal switch stand, but so far haven't been able to find it again. 

Taking down the carriage bolt heads to the frame like you suggested really worked great. :thumbsup: I filed the holes square so they fit nice and snug and won't rotate. That way when the wooden deck and toolbox are on, I can still easily disassemble the wheels from the bottom. I have a half round mill that will make round indentations in the bottom of the deck to clear the carriage bolt heads so that it will lay perfectly flat on the frame.

Greg


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## sstlaure

Looking great. You may want to look into what's called a rescue blade for that sawzall. It's a thicker metal and a taller blade so it resists warping. (It's what firefighters use to cut through cars when they want to peel the roof back without the jaws of life)

Also, If you need any pre-made metal tabs, brackets, etc you should look at www.aa-mfg.com

They are a stock car supply place but they have a wide selection of fabrication parts, good pricing and really fast shipping.


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## tooter

Hey thanks a million, Scott... :thumbsup:
A&A is like a doodad candy store. I already see tabs I can use to make the pull handle drive to power the MOW car.

Greg


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## sstlaure

No problem at all Greg. Resources like that can be hard to locate.

I've spent hundreds of dollars with them during the fabrication of my 74 Bronco. (There's very little Bronco left in it at this point.) If you don't see something that will work, you may also be able to send them a sketch and they'll make one-off parts. Best part is they are a US company with manufacturing/supply right here in Michigan.


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## tooter

I'll be totally happy to give them my business. 

Greg


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## NIMT

What.... No rotating signal switch stand!
Sounds like a job for me!
If you help find a picture...I'll also go down to the tracks and take a picture of the one just down the road.
Can't do cast...Blast Furnace, Coke Oven and Forge have been put away for the winter..:laugh::laugh:..but I can do some mean welding!


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## tooter

Hey Sean, 

Just requested a quote for one of these...










It's a one way sprocket clutch. This will be connected to the bottom end of the pull handle to power the chain running between the two axles. Whenever you stop pulling, it'll coast like a bike! 

Gonna need brakes for sure!

Greg


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## NIMT

Exellent!:thumbsup: I love it when a plan comes together!
Hope the price is good we could use 2 of them!
That's a spool clutch and not a cam clutch so no clicking when it's free wheeling!
I know you don't mind the clicking but others might.
The bonus is it looks to be serviceable too!
Edit: Did the guy that makes the wheel sets that you have tell you what size chain to use?


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## sstlaure

I bet you could adapt a disc brake system from a mountain bike for that fairly easy.


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## tooter

NIMT said:


> Exellent!:thumbsup: I love it when a plan comes together!
> Hope the price is good we could use 2 of them!


I'm glad you let me know now because I'll likely be ordering tomorrow and will get one for each of us.



> That's a spool clutch and not a cam clutch so no clicking when it's free wheeling!
> I know you don't mind the clicking but others might.
> The bonus is it looks to be serviceable too!


Yes, the side cover comes off with an allen wrench to access the innards.



> Edit: Did the guy that makes the wheel sets that you have tell you what size chain to use?


Yes, he did. #35 chain. I found that this is pretty much the standard for all of the motor driven trains. Your chassis gear is for #35. The black speeder wheels use the same #35. In fact, I got some at the same time I picked up the speeder wheels, so the rest I'll send up to you. I'll go fit it right now and let you know the length of the rest.

There was just 4 inches left over... so they figured it really close. In the bag it felt like there was way more chain than needed. 










The slack will be taken up by the arc of the handle. Got a quote on the sprocket... geez, it was $100 including shipping! Gotta find a cheaper source. If you can find them cheaper, please let me know.

Greg


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## NIMT

Ouch that's spendy! I think I'll chat with some folks and see whats available around here, FYI they use that clutch set up in automatic transmissions.
I can get the #35 chain at Big R and sprockets too! I can get an idler sprocket with a sealed bearing for $5. I'm going get a pair and make a tensioner like the 10 speed bikes have and to be able to make the 5 speed transmission for the other one.


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## tooter

Sounds good, Sean. 

My mistake was going to industrial parts which are built to high standards.

I've been searching go cart, scooter, and and electric bike parts for a freewheeling #35 sprocket. Found so far have only found them for #25 chain, but not #35. Looks like the range is far more reasonable at about $20-$30. I'll let you know the minute I find anything we can use.

Greg


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## NIMT

Greg,
Found one...Cheap $7.95 Item# 1-1594-A
You are going to love this place
http://www.surpluscenter.com
All the goodies needed!


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## tjcruiser

Greg, Sean ...

Your most recent round of tech-talk is way over my simple head. But, I can see that your "collective-gears" are turning and whirring, with great ideas and innovation in the works. What fun. Too bad you guys aren't closer to each other.

I think MTF needs a workshop/warehouse, with free flight vouchers to all members. I'll have to talk to someone in Admin about that! :thumbsup:

TJ


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## tooter

NIMT said:


> Greg,
> Found one...Cheap $7.95 Item# 1-1594-A
> You are going to love this place
> http://www.surpluscenter.com
> All the goodies needed!


Hey Sean, 

You're on the right track with the surplus idea, but I think that with 41 teeth, the large diameter won't clear the wooden deck. We'll both keep searching. This is America. Whatever you need, someone is making money selling it.:thumbsup:

Greg


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## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Greg, Sean ...
> 
> Your most recent round of tech-talk is way over my simple head. But, I can see that your "collective-gears" are turning and whirring, with great ideas and innovation in the works. What fun. Too bad you guys aren't closer to each other.
> 
> I think MTF needs a workshop/warehouse, with free flight vouchers to all members. I'll have to talk to someone in Admin about that! :thumbsup:
> 
> TJ


Hey tj, 

Yeah, we're cooking up something together...  
Thank God for the blessing of the internet that makes this possible. :thumbsup:

Greg


----------



## NIMT

Greg you know I thought about that, for my design it would work perfectly for yours I thought of just cutting the sprocket off the one way hub and installing a smaller sprocket. How many teeth are on the axles? I'm not sure what ratio you need to make it work well. Pump style hand cars use a 10 to 1 ratio, granted weight will be much lower so the ratio can be lower but how much lower? Can't be sure till testing.


----------



## tooter

Hey Sean, 

Check yer pm's...

Greg


----------



## tooter

Here's the wye I picked up yesterday... 










Now that it's here, I can start roughing in the layout to see where the tracks are going to go. So far there's only been a general idea, but as the panels are assembled, I can lay them out now.


----------



## Big Ed

You need something like this too, just in case you get thirsty while building your RR.


----------



## tooter

Cool tanker, Ed. 
Like the speeder wheels.

Is that what it means to get "tanked"?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Do you have a drawing of basically what you're planning to end up with?


----------



## tooter

There's going to be a roughly 40x60 oval going around a few trees and two fishponds with the wye and about a 100 foot spur going up alongside the house. I'd like to do a small turntable at the end of the spur to turn the train around. The human powered engine and one "passenger" car will be about 6 feet long total.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That sounds great, the TT is a good idea. I'm sure it won't be long before a powered locomotive is in the works.


----------



## tooter

Maybe *way* down the road... but right now the track project takes precedence. 

Put the wooden deck on the pull cart...




























It rides really nice on the rails, but you can't sit too far to the rear, or it does a wheelie. I'm going to position a small backrest on the seat directly over the rear axle to prevent sitting too far back, and that should resolve the issue.


----------



## kursplat

choo choo said:


> Maybe *way* down the road... but right now the track project takes precedence.
> 
> Put the wooden deck on the pull cart...It rides really nice on the rails, but you can't sit too far to the rear, or it does a wheelie. I'm going to position a small backrest on the seat directly over the rear axle to prevent sitting too far back, and that should resolve the issue.


 lookin' nice.
going to make some foot pegs to slide into the front square tubing?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Where's the motive power? I see the chain, just don't see the pedals. 

How about some lead weights in the front to keep it down?


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey Greg,

What to the pros say about the target center-of-gravity position? Are you trying to target it roughly mid-length on the car, so that there's equal distribution on the front and rear wheels?

John mentioned adding lead, which could help shift the CG forward, but you'd be carrying more weight, of course.

Just curious about what the pros suggest.

Excellent progress with the track construction, by the way ... I like that little fittings that space the ties the proper distance from each other. A well conceived system.

What's with the curved rail sitting off to the side? I thought your "raw" stock was straight, and that you were bending it as you attached it to the ties/ballast. Perhaps not ... can you clarify this a bit for us armchair guys?

Many thanks,

TJ


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Where's the motive power? I see the chain, just don't see the pedals.


That's because it's not done yet... 

Check out this video at 1:41. That's how a pull car works, except mine won't go in reverse because it will have the ablity to coast on the downgrades which are pretty much into roller coaster territory! :laugh:

k7fdN3QXrD8&



> How about some lead weights in the front to keep it down?


I don't believe that will be necessary. Just having the back of the seat at the centerline of the rear axle will be fine. Traction won't be a problem as both axles will be driven, which will give it more traction than some 4 wheeled engines, only it will be slower because it's human powered, and will need to be geared low enough to climb the grades while pulling the passenger car.


----------



## tooter

kursplat said:


> lookin' nice.
> going to make some foot pegs to slide into the front square tubing?


You're on the right track. 

The little pull car in the video has those. The platform is much wider on mine and my seat will be higher to allow for a larger toolbox so mine will likely have a block on the upper front end of the deck to brace your feet against while pulling on the handles.


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Hey Greg,
> 
> What to the pros say about the target center-of-gravity position? Are you trying to target it roughly mid-length on the car, so that there's equal distribution on the front and rear wheels?
> 
> John mentioned adding lead, which could help shift the CG forward, but you'd be carrying more weight, of course.
> 
> 
> Just curious about what the pros suggest.


Heck, I don't know. I'll find out for myself.  Weight distribution won't be critical as both axles will be powered together. Just as long as it doesn't "wheelie" it will work fine.  





> Excellent progress with the track construction, by the way ... I like that little fittings that space the ties the proper distance from each other. A well conceived system.


It's a very complete well thought out stand alone rail system. The plastic tie plates even tilt the rails a few degrees inwards towards each other just like the real ones to.



> What's with the curved rail sitting off to the side? I thought your "raw" stock was straight, and that you were bending it as you attached it to the ties/ballast. Perhaps not ... can you clarify this a bit for us armchair guys?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> TJ


Hey tj, 

I ordered it prebent to a 12.5 foot radius. It would be really tough to bend that steel rail accurately on site without a set of adjustable offset rollers and a feed mechanism.

I was *stunned* to discover that *NO ONE* in the United States makes that steel rail. It's manufactured in Switzerland and shipped here! 

Greg


----------



## gc53dfgc

So Sean is building a 7 1/2 guage empire of his own in his back yard now? Or is Sean just making a second cart for himself so he can go to Greg's in his free time and run around? I am confused but the progress looks very good.


----------



## tooter

gc53dfgc said:


> So Sean is building a 7 1/2 guage empire of his own in his back yard now? Or is Sean just making a second cart for himself so he can go to Greg's in his free time and run around? I am confused but the progress looks very good.


Sean and I are collaborating on a prototype for a human powered 7 1/2 inch gauge rail bike... 

...and we'll see what consequences we can literally set into motion.


----------



## NIMT

GC,
This will make your head spin, because of the foul weather that has set in I have decided to set up the test RR in my house right down the main hall way. And my wife thinks its a cool idea, Love my wife!

I'm working with Choo Choo on his human powered rail car. He has incredable ideas and I have all the tools to help him get it done.

I do want to have a working 7 1/2" Railway. But I will have to wait till I move to my next place this next summer.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

After all the mud and stuff you're moving again?  Are you a masochist? :laugh:


----------



## tooter

Sean is not just moving... he's moving *up*. 

Greg


----------



## NIMT

Yeppers I'm going to be moving from 12.58 acres to 60+ acres and maybe I'll get lucky and get a creek or river running threw the property too!
Lots of room for a RR!


----------



## tooter

This is our "acreage"...










...and I'm gonna cram in all the track I can.


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey ... I like the path, made with that Home Depot (etc.) cement rock mold. A clever idea, the way it jigsaws together.

Is that a little goldfish pond I see in the middle? Very nice.

TJ


----------



## tooter

Yup, it's the HoDePo mold all right. My wife did the path. She's a genuine pioneer woman.  The path goes from our house to my Mom's house in the back yard. She just turned 90 years old. 

There's two ponds... one to the left of the railroad ties that has little green floating plants on the surface, and another smaller one where the white goose is. The plan is for an oval going around everything you see, with a spur line up the side of the house...

...for now. 

Greg


----------



## tjcruiser

Ahh ... didn't see the other pond. Very nice landscaping. It's gonna look great with a train whizzin' by.

The goldfish might not be too happy, though!


----------



## raleets

Choo Choo,
Where's the fire pit? We folks out here in Michigan enjoy a nice little bonfire in the evening after a long day on the railroad :laugh:
Bob


----------



## sstlaure

California isn't too big on fire pits Bob....they're a little bit more flammable out there than here in water soaked Michigan.


----------



## kursplat

choo choo said:


> Yup, it's the HoDePo mold all right. My wife did the path. She's a genuine pioneer woman.  The path goes from our house to my Mom's house in the back yard. She just turned 90 years old...


nice. i'm imagining a station area using that with the rails surrounded by the "stone" work 









these look like missle silos. you could could build some interesting specialty cars :laugh:


----------



## tooter

raleets said:


> Choo Choo,
> Where's the fire pit? We folks out here in Michigan enjoy a nice little bonfire in the evening after a long day on the railroad :laugh:
> Bob


The only ourside fire here is in a barbecue, although we exclusively heat our home with a wood burning stove. We live in a wildfire danger area because right outside our front gate is over 10,000 acres of open chaparal stretching to the coast.


----------



## tooter

kursplat said:


> nice. i'm imagining a station area using that with the rails surrounded by the "stone" work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these look like missle silos. you could could build some interesting specialty cars :laugh:


The specialty cars would have to be tank cars to haul sewage. :laugh:
The only utilities here are electricity and water, so we have our own septic system and use a propane tank for gas... 










The spur line/rollercoaster is going to wind up that hill around the propane tank.


----------



## tooter

Put the flat car on the tracks for the first time... 



















It rolls nice and smooth, and has that really neat feeling of a real railroad when the steel wheels roll on steel rails with the "clickety click" sound when it goes over the joints.


----------



## tjcruiser

Looks like great fun. Clickety Clack noises and all!

Nice trucks on that car ... real suspension springs?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Real springs, *choo choo* doesn't fool around!


----------



## tooter

Yes, they're real springs and are in double pairs up so there are 8 springs on each truck. The trucks are all cast iron, and go together exactly like HO diecast metal spring suspension trucks do.

I'm totally *floored* by how much it *feels *and sounds like a *real railroad* when you roll around on the rails. The reality is *far* beyond my expectations of having a railroad experience in my back yard. 

Greg


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We'll need a video when you get the track laid.


----------



## tooter

Man, I'm gonna take *lots* of videos. 

I just started to rough in the layout to see where to put the tracks...










The rails are quite easy to cut into smaller sectional tracks in order to fit around everything.

Greg


----------



## tooter

The undercarriage on the pull car is done... 










...The spring retainers are in place and trusses installed between the axles.

The drive mechanism is waiting for a part on order. The drive roller will tension the chain. Next project is to build the combination seat/toolbox.


----------



## tjcruiser

The undercarriage is _not_ quite done ...

You need to sign your name somewhere! Every artist does that ... :thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

After it's painted...


----------



## NIMT

*Terror train ride #2*

I have received the base parts for the Terror train ride #2 for choo choo's place!
It's going to get reworked it into a pedal powered monster that will climb 10% + grades and corner at ultra high speeds!
WAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAA!
Of course it will have brakes too, for the wimpy girly men,....Like me!







































Pair of one way sprockets for the drive train.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

What's that white crap all over the ground?


----------



## NIMT

I'm practicing for a white Christmas!


----------



## tjcruiser

Greg, Sean,

I just want to say how excited I am to see that you two guys are collaborating on this project together. You guys are a whoot with this large-scale venture. The rest of us basement-bound model-heads are living vicariously through the both of you. So ... remember to lean into the turns, tuck your torso low for reduced wind resistance, and give the break a little tug somewhere near the end of the track!

TJ


----------



## tooter

Whenever you spontaneously discover a good omen,
it's so much *fun* following its silver thread
because you *never* know where it will lead...


----------



## tooter

Starting on building the shell for the Maintenence of Way pull car... 










The seat will be a hinged box lid so I can store tools inside, and behind the seat is an open bin to hold track assembling hardware. Magnets work great as *w*heel chocks.


----------



## tjcruiser

"cheel chocks" ...


----------



## tooter

Oops... *w*heel chocks.


----------



## tjcruiser

Oh ... sorry ... I thought it was some special part gizmo or something you were talking about!


----------



## tooter

Oh, you mean the cheezewheels...


----------



## kursplat

what's the plan for the brakes? 

friction pads on the wheels? 

modified disk brakes off a scooter?

Popeye style?


----------



## tooter

More like these... 










...except with a mechanically actuated hand lever or foot pedal instead of air powered.


----------



## tjcruiser

choo choo said:


> ... with a mechanically actuated hand lever or foot pedal ...


... plus plenty of these:










:thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

Started roughing in the layout today... 










The MOW car has already been put into service as a rolling tool and hardware bin even though it isn't lever-powered yet. 

It's a neato real world railroad experience planning and "surveying" the right of way then laying out the rails to see how they'll fit among the various features in the yard. The spur line up the side of the house will be the most exciting part as it goes over the drainage "creek" and then winds around the fruit trees and the propane tank and up to the front of the house. In the future I'd like to make it go all the way around the house.


----------



## Big Ed

You going to build a truss bridge?

Better yet a suspension bridge?:thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> You going to build a truss bridge?
> 
> Better yet a suspension bridge?:thumbsup:


Nothing that dramatic, Ed... 
I'm trying to locate a 4 foot length of 18 inch concrete drainage pipe for the seasonal stream so I can just grade some earth over it for the railroad right of way with a "road" (path) beside it so that we can roll out the trash bins for pickup day...










This is looking back down the 30 feet of straight spur line to the wye...










This is where the spur goes up the hill and around the propane tank...


----------



## kursplat

choo choo said:


> Nothing that dramatic, Ed...
> I'm trying to locate a 4 foot length of 18 inch concrete drainage pipe for the seasonal stream so I can just grade some earth over it for the railroad right of way with a "road" (path) beside it so that we can roll out the trash bins for pickup day...


 everything's looking good. sounds like your going to need a spur line out front to move the trash to the street :thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

kursplat said:


> sounds like your going to need a spur line out front to move the trash to the street :thumbsup:


LOVE that idea! Hey, Greg ... will you build a "trash run" for me, too?!?


----------



## NIMT

I going to run mine 1/2 mile across my property to pic up the mail!
Choo Choo I see a possible problem with your set up!


----------



## tooter

NIMT said:


> I going to run mine 1/2 mile across my property to pic up the mail!
> Choo Choo I see a possible problem with your set up!
> View attachment 13194


Hey Sean, 

Right now the brakes are just dragging my feet...

That 30 foot straight is actually *uphill* to the wye so the speed from the descent coming around the propane tank will get scrubbed off by the time the car gets to the wye. 

Man, this is going to be an exciting railroad...


----------



## tooter

Still working on the MOW tool carrier...




























It's convenient to have all the track assembly tools and hardware on a rolling cart. I put carry handles on it to make it easy to get on and off the tracks. It'll be painted MOW grey and I'll be stenciling on some kind of road mark on it when I decide on a name.


----------



## tjcruiser

You need a cup holder, too! :thumbsup:

Nice work, Greg ... I've really enjoyed going along for the armchair ride on this one!

TJ


----------



## tooter

Layed a some more rail, emptied all the tools out of the cart, and took a few more test runs down the hill again...  

(no video yet, got rained out...  )










However, I did discover that the high center of gravity seating makes the cart go around the curves on *two* wheels. 

Still waiting on the brake kits and the drive gear...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think brakes would be mandatory on something with a high CG! 

That is looking really cool, what a fun thing to have!


----------



## NIMT

Yea I'm working on that exact issue with the second model!
Get real Low!


----------



## Massey

Wow this is moving right along. What are your plans for the engine? I would love to be able to build something like this some day!!

Massey


----------



## NIMT

I'm working on the pedal powered version of an "engine" and Choo Choo is working on a lever/hand powered "engine".


----------



## raleets

NIMT said:


> I'm working on the pedal powered version of an "engine" and Choo Choo is working on a lever/hand powered "engine".


Big Boys and their toys........gotta love it!
Bob


----------



## tooter

Filmed another track test... 





 
I really need to mount the camera on the cart instead of trying to hold it with one hand while I try to hold onto the cart with the other. 

There's a 70 foot run now, with enough track at the bottom of the hill to slow down safely. It's nice not to have to run into the cushion in the cardboard box to stop. :laugh:


----------



## Artieiii

Greg,
Where is the other track going? Might me nice to use your MOW car to help you take the trash cans to the curb in style LOL. Looks like fun!
-Art


----------



## tooter

It's an absolute riot... and I'm on top of the trash bin issue. 
There will be a spur line off the wye in the back yard where we keep the trash bins which are to the left of that black water storage tub...










...it will cross the "seasonal creek" on a bridge...










...and wind up the hill around the propane tank to the front yard where we put out the bins...


----------



## tooter

Another test run with a helmetcam strapped onto the cart...





 
It has no recording volume setting so the sound gets over driven. The curves are banked 2 inches now and the cart handles them much better.


----------



## tankist

wow, that is sure something!


----------



## NIMT

choo choo said:


> black water storage tub...


Can we all say EEEEEEWWWWWWWW!
Or was it the Black colored.....Water storage tank???


----------



## T-Man

Double WOW! :thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

NIMT said:


> Can we all say EEEEEEWWWWWWWW!
> Or was it the Black colored.....Water storage tank???


Come on guys... the plastic is black in color... *not* the water.

We divert the rain gutter downspout into the tub and use the rainwater for the plants.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Need more ties so you can have a longer run.


----------



## tooter

There's 1,200 pounds of ties and 800 pounds of steel rail down there... 










It takes a lot of time to assemble the track sections. And will likely take a year to have everything together and dug down to ground level. I lay out the rails and bolt them together in advance to plan the right of way.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, let's get crackin'!


----------



## mwpeber

How do you control the "Y" track? For some reason when watching video I expected to go right, but was caught off guard when the cart went left


----------



## tooter

Right now it's a spring loaded "kick switch". 
You *kick* the points to switch it. :laugh:

I'm getting an old time switch stand that looks exactly like this...


----------



## mwpeber

That's a slick way of changing direction.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

How about remote switching with a wireless cab unit?


----------



## tooter

Hey John, 

This will be an all hands-on mechanical low tech railroad. Right now, I've been working hacking and drilling to make a small gear fit on the hub which had a really large gear. This will power the MOW pull car... 










It's a one way clutch hub with a small gear on it. When you pull the handle towards yourself...










...the gear will pull on the chain wrapped around both axles and when you push the handle away from you, the gear will freewheel on the moving chain.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

choo choo said:


> Hey John,
> 
> This will be an all hands-on mechanical low tech railroad.


We'll move you into the 21th century at some point, you can be sure of that. 

Can't wait to see the completed buggy, that will be cool.


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> We'll move you into the 21th century at some point, you can be sure of that.


...while I'm looking back to the 19th century for inspiration. 










This pull cart is armed. :laugh:



> Can't wait to see the completed buggy, that will be cool.


Thanks, John... I'll be sure to post pics of the progress. 

Greg


----------



## gc53dfgc

I hope you have not forgotten the opposite side of things over with your little micro layout you were doing? I really liked seeing all the little critters and the progress of the layout.


----------



## tjcruiser

I'll 2nd GC's comment!

TJ


----------



## tooter

I have more shortys in the works, but right now the big stuff is taking up all my spare time.

I'm working on a neato switch stand kit for the wye... 










It comes as unfinished undrilled unmachined castings, and is a scaled down copy of a real switch stand from around the 1890's.


----------



## gc53dfgc

I see one problem, you have that switch lever towards the tracks. I am seeing it now where you are riding along and get clipped by that thing. It already seems to close for safety but with that lever there it makes it even more precarious.

In fact your MOW car will not go through there as it sits right now as well.


----------



## tooter

Oh, I just stuck it on the wye so I could take a pic of it. In fact if you look really close you'll see it's not even bolted down and there's no control rod to move the points! :laugh: 

When it's properly mounted, it will be bolted onto the ends of two extended railroad ties to put it well out of the way. The parts of the stand are very authentically replicated, and operate exactly like the real ones do. An extra target is on its way here that I'll paint green and set it at 90 degrees to the red one for a red/green directional indication.


----------



## Big Ed

You better get out the scotch bright pads, the track is starting to rust.


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> You better get out the scotch bright pads, the track is starting to rust.


Hey Ed, 

I'm sure looking forward to riding the rails enough to make the tops nice and shiny. 

There's 90 feet of rails laid now and plenty of track at the bottom of the hill to stop...


----------



## tjcruiser

Cool! I like the quick left/right transition. Pullin' some g's, huh?!?


----------



## tooter

Hey TJ, 

The S curve is to clear a large oak tree, and since it's on the only flat area, the speed through there will naturally be relatively slow. I wanted to add some variety to what is essentially just a circle of track. I'm already trying to come up with a "right of way" to run track all the way around the house. 

This stuff is like crack... once you're hooked, it's all over. 

Greg


----------



## NIMT

The RR is looking great!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Littlefoot14

Tooter, nice work so far! One thing though, how about a pic of the controls, it must be one hell of a powerpack to control trains that big !


----------



## tooter

Littlefoot14 said:


> Tooter, nice work so far! One thing though, how about a pic of the controls, it must be one hell of a powerpack to control trains that big !


It is... it's me. 
This railroad is completely human powered.

Greg


----------



## tooter

Almost closed the circle with rail, although there are still a lot of ties to install... 



















This will be the most straight rail sections... 30 feet long.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You're going to need the weed whacker MOW car next!


----------



## tooter

The track hasn't been dug down to ground level yet. 

Did another downhill run... whoopee! 





 
The little MOW cart rides really nice and is quite useful...










I load it up with ties, tools, and hardware, and ride it down to the other end of the yard to do track work.


----------



## tjcruiser

Yeeeeehhhaaaaaaaa!!!


----------



## kursplat

tunnel...


----------



## tooter

Ah, you're reading my mind...

I'm already fishing around for a short length of 6 foot galvanized drainage pipe.


----------



## NIMT

We have a lot of ABS drain pipe around here, it's cheaper and holds up better in the long run, and it's really light so it's easy to handle.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

What are the gaps in the ties for along the "finished" part of the track? Just curious.


----------



## tooter

Hey John, 

About 4 inches. There's about 30 ties to every 10 feet of track. This makes the track unbelieveably strong. You wouldn't think that just some screws in plastic could make the track sections so rigid. The RMI track system is designed to handle the crushing weight of full sized steam locos. For how I'm using the track, it could easily work with a *third* the number of ties. :laugh:

I'm worked on the pull cart's drive system today... 

(ran out of daylight, so the pics are crappy...)























































There's no fulcrum point supports for the pull lever to pivot on, and no chain tensioning spring or lever overtravel limits. Those all need to be worked out by experimentation.


----------



## tooter

NIMT said:


> We have a lot of ABS drain pipe around here, it's cheaper and holds up better in the long run, and it's really light so it's easy to handle.


Yo buddy, 

Wow... I didn't know that they made abs pipe that large.  I'll definitely look into that. Thanks for another good idea! :thumbsup:

Greg


----------



## kursplat

choo choo said:


> There's no fulcrum point supports for the pull lever to pivot on, and no chain tensioning spring or lever overtravel limits. Those all need to be worked out by experimentation.


 looks great. any plans for a way to keep everything aligned ? maybe a chain guide off a motorcycle


----------



## NIMT

I was going to say you could build a really cool snow shed out of some old pallets, then I remembered it only snows on my parade!


----------



## tooter

kursplat said:


> looks great. any plans for a way to keep everything aligned ? maybe a chain guide off a motorcycle


That won't be necessary... 
With the lever mounted and the chain tensioned, there won't be any lateral forces applied to the chain.


----------



## tooter

NIMT said:


> We have a lot of ABS drain pipe around here, it's cheaper and holds up better in the long run, and it's really light so it's easy to handle.


Hey Sean, 

Thanks for the tip! :thumbsup:

I went to the local plumbing supply house, and they had 12 inch diameter Schedule 40 PVC... perfect for a culvert. So I got a 6 foot piece, dug out the stream, dropped it in, and threw dirt on top. Now I can run the track over it.

I sprung the drive sprocket this evening...


----------



## NIMT

Looking good!:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

Ohh ... silly me ...

The other day, when you said "a 6 foot pipe", I thought you meant 6 foot _diameter_ ... a tunnel, with you going _through_ it!

Dohh!

TJ


----------



## raleets

Hey, TJ,
Don't feel so dumb 'cause I thought the same thing! 
Bob


----------



## tooter

You're both right...  
I was looking into a tunnel pipe, but also needed a culvert pipe for the spur track to pass over the stream. I had only thought of galvanized metal pipe when Sean suggested plastic...



















It was a perfect solution that was available locally. 

Getting a tunnel will be a long trek as no manufacturer is close by.


----------



## NIMT

OK, Greg here is million dollar idea #365.2!
Your a handy build it your self kind of guy so this will be right up your alley! I stead of paying for a culvert for a tunnel make one out of bender boards, chicken wire and stucco. You could even do slurry concrete over a form and that would be good too! Yes a little more labor intensive but the final result would look great!


----------



## tjcruiser

Nice stone around the culvert ...

The Basement Floor lives to see another day?!?


----------



## tooter

NIMT said:


> OK, Greg here is million dollar idea #365.2!
> Your a handy build it your self kind of guy so this will be right up your alley! I stead of paying for a culvert for a tunnel make one out of bender boards, chicken wire and stucco. You could even do slurry concrete over a form and that would be good too! Yes a little more labor intensive but the final result would look great!


Hey Sean, 

The last thing I need is labor intensive! :laugh: If I can't obtain corrugated plastic drainage pipe easily, I'll skip the tunnel. My original idea was to pile dirt over it to make a little "mountain".

As to the culvert. I'm going to mortar stones around each end proper, and pour a concrete apron so that water doesn't wash under the pipe.

The little pull cart now has brakes... 










Since both axles are chained together, it's effective 4 wheel braking.










There's a full length pedal for braking with either foot, or both... but it needs more leverage so I'll be extending ithe connecting rods to put the pedal higher.









Buckbuck is our railroad inspector... :laugh: 










I did a bunch of testing to get a feel of how much stopping power the brakes have, because the cart will likely be pulling the flat car behind it. It's a great feeling to actually be able to control the downhill speed without needing to drag my feet in the dirt! :laugh:


----------



## tjcruiser

Re: "leverage". I was just thinking the same thing as I read your post. If raising the crossbar is a less-than-ideal option, could you lower the pivot point (below the deck) to accomplish the same end goal? The brake force is equal to the push force times the ratio of distance on either side of the pivot. Shorten the lower distance by half, and you'll double the brake force.

TJ


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Re: "leverage". I was just thinking the same thing as I read your post. If raising the crossbar is a less-than-ideal option, could you lower the pivot point (below the deck) to accomplish the same end goal? The brake force is equal to the push force times the ratio of distance on either side of the pivot. Shorten the lower distance by half, and you'll double the brake force.
> 
> TJ


*Excellent* idea, tj! 

I can weld some small supports for more advantageous pivot points under the frame.


----------



## NIMT

Love the foot Brakes!!:thumbsup:
It would be great to have a ratchet catch to keep the breaks locked on a grade, like a parking brake.


----------



## tjcruiser

choo choo said:


> *Excellent* idea, tj!
> 
> I can weld some small supports for more advantageous pivot points under the frame.


Happy to have help a small bit. A downside here, perhaps, is that with the shorter pivot arm (pivot to brakes), your pivot throw will be smaller, and you'll have to position the brakes with a tighter gap/tolerance to start.

Not a dealbreaker (dealbraker? ), I'd think, though.

TJ


----------



## tooter

I don't believe that will be a problem... 
There's nothing to set. No return spring either... so when there's no pressure on the pedal, the brake pads just loosely skim the front wheel without impeding anything.


----------



## tooter

I welded supports under the frame members to lower the pivot points of the brake levers...










They have lots more leverage now. I couldn't test on the rails today because of rain, but I can now lock up the wheels with my hand on the brake lever.


----------



## tjcruiser

Excellent!


----------



## tooter

Thanks, man... worked like a charm.  :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looks like a great solution. :thumbsup: TJ comes through again.


----------



## raleets

Hey choo choo,
I thought it NEVER rained in Southern California.   
Bob


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I went to boot camp in San Diego, it rained almost every day November to January! It was the wettest place I'd ever been!


----------



## Massey

I live in the Puget Sound area of WA state... You all have heard about WA rain.
Boot camp in Great Lakes middle of winter, only snowed once and we got 4 inches.
First duty station in Pensacola FL. Talk about rainy!! I thought FL was supposed to be sunny all the time. Every day durring the summer we would get about 2 or so hours of torential downpours, then it would go away and the sidewalks would by dry in an hour.
VA much the same way.

Honestly WA does not have anything on VA or FL rain!! We got ya covered for grey days but they take the cake with rainfall.

Massey


----------



## raleets

Massey,
A few years back the Mrs. and I went to Seattle on a business/pleasure trip for 5 days. It was in May, and I had been told about all the rain in Seattle and to be sure to bring a big umbrella, yadda, yadda.......well, guess what?
It never rained a drop the entire time we were there. Sunny and gorgeous!
Go figure,
Bob


----------



## tooter

Our average yearly rainfall is only 21 inches. But in 2005, we got 66 inches, and I thought we were going to grow webs between our toes!:laugh:

I did a brake test on the pull cart...


----------



## NIMT

Looks like the brake's are doing a great job!


----------



## Massey

STOP!!! easy as pie now!! Looks like things are getting better and safer for you now.


Yea we have pretty good weather here all and all. Just dont tell anyone! The rain storys are a cover up to the really nice weather we really have to drive people away.

Massey


----------



## tjcruiser

choo choo said:


> I did a brake test on the pull cart...


Hey, you're not even pushing with all five toes! In flip-flops, mind you.

Looks like the brake leverage is a success!

TJ


----------



## tooter

It was a beautiful "flip flop" day today... 

...in the 70's, and will be tomorrow, too.

The brakes will work even better when the pads wear enough to conform to the wheels. They were made for smaller diameter wheels so only the outside edges make contact.


----------



## tooter

Finalizing the drive system... 





































The lower plates need to be flipped over so that spring mount allows the arm to extend further back, and some spacers need to be installed on the pull handle shaft to keep it centered. But other than those details, it's ready to hit the tracks for testing!


----------



## tjcruiser

Greg,

As the push handle and the drive sprocket thingy are positioned back and forth (to any front-back position), is there much variance in the tension on the drive chain, given that the geometry of the drive chain top path "droop" changes a bit? And whatever the variance, always enough tension to keep the chain engaged on the sprocket teeth?

Just curious.

When you get the geometry tweeked out, can you show us a video of the drive mechanism working, but with the car propped up on blocks, so we can see in a "still shot" video how it all operates?

Thanks,

TJ


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Greg,
> 
> As the push handle and the drive sprocket thingy are positioned back and forth (to any front-back position), is there much variance in the tension on the drive chain, given that the geometry of the drive chain top path "droop" changes a bit? And whatever the variance, always enough tension to keep the chain engaged on the sprocket teeth?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> When you get the geometry tweeked out, can you show us a video of the drive mechanism working, but with the car propped up on blocks, so we can see in a "still shot" video how it all operates?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> TJ


Tell you the truth... I haven't got the slightest idea of how it's going to work out! :laugh: I just came up with an concept and scratchbuilt it.

None of the other hand powered cars I've seen have used this particular drive design. They used the constantly engaged offset crankshaft style that drives the cart like a fixed gear non freewheeling track racing bicycle. There was just one hand crank style that coasted, and it had a brake handle you pulled to stop it. With my design you can also coast downhill. That's why brakes were an *absolute* necessity. With the fixed design you slow it down to a stop by putting opposing pressure on the cranks or the pull handle.

Chain tension on the gear arm is not an issue as I can make the springs as heavy as I want. Right now the tension is linear because the springs are very long. The chain slack is fixed and cannot change because the bottoms of the floating spring axles are connected with tie rods.

I did discover one issue...
Because the drive wheel is a one way clutch, the car will *not* roll in reverse. So I put a spring stop on the arm so that if you push the handle all the way forward and down as far as it will go, it lifts the wheel off of the chain putting the cart in "neutral" so it can be manually rolled in reverse. Pulling the handle back towards you automatically engages the chain again. The neutral position is way forward of the limits of the pull stroke so the gear remains constantly engaged in normal use.

I'll definitely take *lots* of detailed videos... :thumbsup:

I was trying to get it all tacked together so I could track test it this evening, but ran out of daylight. So if I have time after work tomorrow, I'll give it a go.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It'll be interesting to see how much effort it takes, especially going up any sort of grade. I'm assuming since you're rolling down a hill there's an uphill grade somewhere.


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It'll be interesting to see how much effort it takes, especially going up any sort of grade. I'm assuming since you're rolling down a hill there's an uphill grade somewhere.


Yeah, John... so far that's a *total unknown*.

The whole layout is heavily "tilted" at about 6% so the cart will either be climbing or coasting. The spur line up the side of the house will have a grade of over 12%. If it is too hard to pull, I can increase the leverage by lowering the pull lever's fulcrum on the support posts. Climbing is one reason I made the cart all wheel drive and all wheel braking...

...it's gonna *need* it! :laugh:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Boy, 6 to 12 percent grades, that's gonna' develop the upper body just fine! 

Sure you don't want to consider a powered approach?


----------



## tooter

Here's the latest pics of the drive mechanism installed...





































The small gear doesn't work under the heavy load of climbing grades, Not enough teeth are engaging the chain at any given moment, so I'm going to get a larger one and try again. I also need to lengthen the stroke so that the cart travels further with each stroke, but that's just a matter of cutting a longer slot in the wooden deck. It's getting really close now. The handle is also too long, but I had done that purposefully just in case I needed more length under the deck. Almost all of the bugs are getting worked out by actually testing it on the rails.


----------



## Big Ed

When you going to build the steam Locomotive?

Well maybe not as big as this one,
towards the end of the site, they have a smaller one.:thumbsup:
http://www.dochemp.com/bigtrains.html


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm curious what you brace the feet against when you're pulling the hills? Obviously, that brake pedal is a bad choice!


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm curious what you brace the feet against when you're pulling the hills? Obviously, that brake pedal is a bad choice!


That's just a scrap of wood I stuck on the arms!:laugh:
The finished pedal will be much shorter and in the center with plenty of foot room on both sides.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I was curious how that was going to work.


----------



## tankist

I'm watching this thread carefully...


















wonder who got me to talk with pictures, lol


----------



## ChopperCharles

I'm going to be the only one to say so, but I much prefer gassless flux-cored wire-feed welding. Yes it spatters. Yes it's harder to learn. But you know what? I run out of gas CONSTANTLY. And none of the welding gas places are open on the weekends when I work on my hobbies. What's more, flux-cored will weld much thicker material in a single pass, and it works outdoors even in the wind. The slightest breeze will blow away the shielding gasses for regular MIG, which means welding inside the garage with the door mostly closed instead of out in the driveway. In the middle of summer, that gets real hot real fast.

Charles.

The more I read through this thread, the more I want to sell my house, move to the country, and buy a place with 20 acres to make my own railroad. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.....

Charles.


----------



## tooter

Hey Charles, 

You don't really need much space... I'm laying track in an area about 60'x60', with a spur line going up beside the house to the front yard.

While I waiting on an idler gear for the drive arm, I've been working on the switch stand for the wye...




























Nothing's permanently bolted down yet as I'm still positioning all the pieces. The switch stand is a replica of an ond time lever from around the turn of the century...


----------



## ChopperCharles

I have a homeowner's society and a small yard, friend. No way I could get away with this. I've been thinking about some G-gauge trains in the yard, but that's the extent I think I can get away with 

Charles.


----------



## tjcruiser

I happened to see a few minutes of American Pickers on TV tonight ... they had a guy with a large-scale ride-on running around his warehouse buildings. Very cool. And ...

I thought of you!

Cool switch!

TJ


----------



## tooter

Hey tj... do you happen know what that Pickers episode was titled? We don't have television but I can likely locate it on YouTube. 

Just finished up with the switch stand today... 



















Green target for thru traffic on the main line...










Red target for shunting onto the spur...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looks very professional. :thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

choo choo said:


> Hey tj... do you happen know what that Pickers episode was titled? We don't have television but I can likely locate it on YouTube.


Sorry, I don't recall. It may have been a rerun .. not sure ... I didn't catch the whole episode. Guy with a cluster of warehouse buildings, with ride-on train running around the property. Pretty cool.


----------



## tooter

Finished all the final adjustments, screwed everything down, and made a little test video... 





 
The rails are all laid on the bottom section...


----------



## tjcruiser

Oh! I didn't realize that the throw lever cams down to lock itself into position once you throw the switch. Clever.

You need to name that section of track ... *The Serpentine *!!!


----------



## ChopperCharles

Are you planning to ballast the track?

Charles.


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Oh! I didn't realize that the throw lever cams down to lock itself into position once you throw the switch. Clever.


Yes, the notch keeps the lever from rotating which holds the points in place. That 90 degree cam lever is a scale model of a real one likely from the early 1900's...














> You need to name that section of track ... *The Serpentine *!!!


It's the only relatively level stretch of track so I made it winding for more interest.


----------



## tooter

ChopperCharles said:


> Are you planning to ballast the track?
> 
> Charles.


No, I'm going for the really old time abandoned narrow gauge look, like this...




















...so everything but the rail tops will be below grade. That's the reason for plastic ties and stainless steel hardware. Nothing to rot or corrode.


----------



## tooter

Well, the railroad crew of one was outside today starting the job of digging the track down to grade... 




























This is the end effect I'm going for, with nothing else showing except for just one inch of rail above grade. It'll make for easy weedwhacking. 










The orientation of the wye determines where all the other track goes so I did it first. Took a can of spray paint and outlined the track before removal so i would know exactly where to dig. I'm making sure to keep the rails level side to side and just letting the slope of the surrounding earth determine the grade.


----------



## tankist

Choo, this is great, but perhaps leave at least some ties visible? perhaps down the line?
and thats one mighty shovel you got there )


----------



## tooter

The ties will likely be disappearing with just the rails showing, as I really like the old time look where the rails were the only things above grade instead of sitting on the top of a pile of grey gravel ballast. Our dirt here is a warm brown color and introducing piles of grey gravel everywhere is *way* too much of a contrast. I want us to see the yard first rather than the railroad...










...especially when I'll probably be laying track *all over* the place. 


That demolition hammer has really been a great help in a wide variety of projects. I used a pointed chisel tip on it to break up the stone in the basement, used it to install the 12 inch culvert for the railroad right of way to pass over the stream, and now I'm using it to dig in the permanent locations of the track by putting a spade attachment on it. It's paid for itself many times over for the time and effort it has saved me. 

I've watched youtube videos of railroad workers using power tools to do track work, so I figured I'd follow their example.


----------



## NIMT

Choo Choo,
Hey if you put some rock or heavy gravel on the ends of your switch stand cut it might help keep the silt/mud out of the switch assembly. 
If you don't have any mud I can send you some...We are now headed into spring breakup and the mud fest begins! I'm kind of happy to see it doing it, the yard, drive and work areas are all snow or ice covered and it's near to impossible to get anything done!
Your RR line is looking great!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That looks like an absolute ton of fun, I can't wait to see the live steam locomotive run around the tracks!


----------



## kursplat

whole lot of diggin' going on :thumbsup:
your pics have me about 1/2 talked into getting one of those digging hammers for around the house


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Sorry, I don't recall. It may have been a rerun .. not sure ... I didn't catch the whole episode. Guy with a cluster of warehouse buildings, with ride-on train running around the property. Pretty cool.



I know of one in Detroit were the guy had a train running arournd his property.

A copy and paste,
11 49 "*Motor City*" September 19, 2011 Driving through Michigan in a freak spring snowstorm, the prospects look bleak until the guys spot an interesting old Cadillac for sale. With their picking senses twitching, they stop to see what else is on the property. Frank falls hard for a deluxe Ford Model A roadster. But to seal the deal, he's got to talk to the boss and she's not at home! Passionate about revitalizing Detroit's city core, Joel Landy owns an entire Detroit neighborhood of 50 adjoining properties, including a 50,000 square foot warehouse that's jam-packed with cool cars, old signs, and architectural salvage. It's a picker's dream and the guys dig deep to see what they can uncover, finding a United Motors Service sign, cast-iron pedestal tables, Kawasaki Triple 500 motorcycle, Bosch horn sign, outboard motor, chair, stained glass windows, 1960s sphere loudspeakers. Collecting on a monumental scale, father and son duo Jerry and Jerry's 40-acre property includes a life-size model train town and over 1,000 classic bicycles. The only problem is they've got a hard time selling and their prices are frozen in time! After dropping thousands of dollars on the Model A, Frank faces the appraiser's verdict. 






If you want a list of all their shows here, 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Pickers_episodes

I speed read through it and only found the Motor city one.
But I read it real quick, maybe you can find another but I have watched most of them and only remember that one a train in it.


----------



## tjcruiser

Good find, Ed. I don't recall a snowstorm in the episode I saw, though, so perhaps a different one? Most times, though, they throw a few different "picks" and locales into one episode.


----------



## tooter

NIMT said:


> Choo Choo,
> Hey if you put some rock or heavy gravel on the ends of your switch stand cut it might help keep the silt/mud out of the switch assembly.
> If you don't have any mud I can send you some...We are now headed into spring breakup and the mud fest begins! I'm kind of happy to see it doing it, the yard, drive and work areas are all snow or ice covered and it's near to impossible to get anything done!
> Your RR line is looking great!


Hey Sean, 

Oh, that's all right. We already have *plenty* of adobe here. 

That is a valid concern... I'm going to bury small sheets of plastic at each end of the ties to keep the dirt level below the switch stand operating rod.

And I understand about the weather holding you up. Spring will break sooner or later. It already has here, as it was in the 80's today. 

Greg


----------



## tooter

Just more digging in and levelling the tracks...


----------



## tjcruiser

What's the flat, black platform on the right (1st pic)? Did you make a curve radius jig?

TJ


----------



## tooter

It's just a piece of scrap wood I cut to fit the curved rails and routed out the edges to clear the wheel flanges. My 90 year old Mom needed to be with us so I built a little house in our back yard for her to live in. The plywood is so that she can get across the tracks safely. I pencil marked it for cutting using a curved rail as a ruler.


----------



## tooter

Doing some more track work...




























The rails are first assembled to the ties in 10 foot sections. Then I dig the trench, drop in the track section, and bolt it onto the adjoining rails. All the fill dirt is screened through 1/4 inch mesh and then compacted into place. As the dirt is being filled in I level the track. The little cart rolls really smooth and quiet. 

Working on the rails, it's really fun to *feel* the railroad atmosphere.  A ten foot section takes about 6 hours from the beginning of rail assembly to the end of completely being leveled and laid.


----------



## kursplat

looks great all bedded in


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Once the grass grows around it, I think you'll achieve your goal of the abandoned RR. I also think you need a weed whacker car to keep it trimmed!


----------



## tjcruiser

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I also think you need a weed whacker car to keep it trimmed!


M.O.W. crew on the Choo Choo Central ! :thumbsup:


----------



## NIMT

TJ, I think it's got to be Choo Choo Southern RR!


----------



## tooter

It's already got a name, Sean... 

*Rocky Road R.R.*

...for obvious reasons. :laugh:


----------



## NIMT

Love the RR name!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

WOW, that's quite a pile of rock! Looks just like what we get here when we try to do something in the landscaping.


----------



## tooter

Yeah, that pile was just part of the rocks that came out of the basement excavation. When the rig came and drilled our septic pit, we gleaned literally tons of rocks from the tailings, and built retaining walls out of them... 










They're a valuable natural resource. In fact, when the County Department of Public Works does any projects in our neighborhood, we even go get rocks from *their* diggings! :laugh:

It's a hard but brittle fractured basaltic rock informally known as ironstone, and the drilling rig hit the same stuff all the way down to 50 feet. I love the warm brown color, and the dirt must be made from the same stone because it's exactly the same color...










This is why I didn't want to introduce any contrasting light grey ballast into our yard. You can spot even one errant piece of it 50 feet away. Gravel naturally gets scattered, and would ruin the natural look of the ground. Our only concession to light grey was the path, and I'm going to be staining it brown.


----------



## kursplat

love that rock. i coud use about 4 tons of it here 
that would look great in some ore cars on you RR :thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

The little flat car in the pic that I've been scooting around on will be turned into a Rocky Road Mine ore car.


----------



## tooter

Dug in some more sections...


----------



## NIMT

Your going to have to do some some poured cobble stone for the walk way across the tracks!


----------



## ChopperCharles

NIMT: "You're". 

choo choo, I cannot wait to see more video!

Have you thought about a small gas motor to make a powered cart? Lawnmower or small motorcycle or something? It's not live steam for sure, but it's something! Motorcycle would be easy for someone with your skills, weld a sprocket onto an axle and run a chain to it, easy cheesy. 

Charles.


----------



## tooter

Hey guys, 

Sean... the photo doesn show it, but the tracks are not at the same level as the stones. I still need to dig the stones to slope down to the level of the tracks, then I can run them right up to the outsides of the rails for a grade crossing.

Charles... I'm going for human powered vehicles... 



















...and need to take my welding cylinders down to get filled so that I can continue working on the pull cart. The idler sprocket I ordered came in so all I need to do is weld on a bracket to hold it.


----------



## ChopperCharles

Are you a professional welder by trade? I have a cheap flux cored welder, and I've gotten rather good at using it. Learning curve was steep and it spatters a lot, but it's great for thick material and I never have to get tanks filled. Good in wind too, since the shielding gas is part of the wire.

Charles.


----------



## tooter

Hey Charles, 

I'm an absolutely *awful* welder! :laugh:
But I had bought a small used acetylene setup at a yard sale in the early 1970's for $100 and have had it ever since, so that's what I use. 

I looked up flux welding to see what it is, but have absolutely no idea of what to get as far as equipment. Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks, 
Greg


----------



## tooter

NIMT said:


> Your going to have to do some some poured cobble stone for the walk way across the tracks!


Hey Sean, 

Those loose ones off to the side are the ones that will fill in the areas on each side of the tracks. Some of them will need to be cut to fit.


----------



## NIMT

Greg, Sounds great and looking great!
Grinder and a concrete blade will knock that out for you!
As far as welding equipment goes I have a miller wire feed welder or know as a MIG welder. It works great, its portable and gets many a job done! I prefer to use the Argon gas and solid wire over flux core, a lot less splatter. Flux core can weld thicker material though. I do alway keep a roll of that hanging around just in case I run out of Argon in the middle of a project!
Gas welding will get the job done, it's just not as strong. Little trick I learned years ago, Metal clothes hangers make great welding rod for simple projects. I also have plenty of welding rod on hand for brazing. and silver solder for liquid holding repairs.


----------



## ChopperCharles

This is what I have: 115 volt flux welder from Harbor Freight

http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-68887.html

I bought it as a throw-away, but it's lasted and lasted and lasted even though I go well beyond the duty cycle rating on a regular basis. Honestly, you'll be better off with more expensive equipment - a Miller or something - but for $110 it got my foot in the door, and i was able to build a custom chopper using it. I started off small, welding stuff together, clamping it in a vice, and beating on it with a hammer to see if I had the technique right. But I had never done anything more than solder wires before, so the learning curve was very steep for me. I've had the welder for... woah, six years now. i used to use it every single weekend, but now it's more like a couple times a month. I've had to put a few new tips on it, and I've probably gone through 20 rolls of wire over the years.

Techniques are largely the same between gas and mig/flux, except your torch and rod are the same in mig/flux. You control the rate at which you feed rod into the weld by the controls on the unit. If you go this route, I HIGHLY recommend an auto-darkening welding helmet - the goggles you have for gas welding will not be anywhere near dark enough. 

MIG will give you shielding gas, but the tiny little bottles go by quick, and there's never any place open on the weekends to fill it back up. Plus it blows away really easily, so it's not suitable for outdoors so much. That being said, MIG is easier and makes a much prettier weld. Flux will spatter everywhere - but you can mitigate that somewhat with an anti spatter spray and a good wire brush. 

Charles.


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey Greg,

Nice progress ... I'm sure that's back-breaking work.

OK ... I don't think anybody has asked this yet, so I'll jump in:

What do the neighbors think? Seriously. Are you the "crazy guy down the road", or are they all lining up for a ride?!? (Or a little bit of both!)

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

choo choo said:


> Hey Charles,
> 
> I'm an absolutely *awful* welder! :laugh:
> But I had bought a small used acetylene setup at a yard sale in the early 1970's for $100 and have had it ever since, so that's what I use.
> 
> I looked up flux welding to see what it is, but have absolutely no idea of what to get as far as equipment. Do you have any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Greg


I've got a small 110V wire-feed Lincoln MIG welder and it couldn't be easier to use. It would be more than adequate for what you're working on. It was right around $500 (I run mixed Argon shielding gas)


----------



## tooter

Hey guys, 

Thanks so much for the welder recommendations. 
I'll likely go the simpler flux route because it will work well outside without a gas tank.

Is there any 120 volt welder that will do 1/4 inch plate?

Sean, I had used wire hangers for years when they were still around. Now I use a roll of heavy bailing wire.


----------



## NIMT

I can't really agree with the shield gas not working outside, I do it all the time! 
Make sure which ever wire feed welder you get will do both flux core and shield gas that way you have the option. Much of the cheaper units can't do shield gas. 
I can weld up to 1/2 mild steel with my Miller. You can weld even larger material with Flux core wire. 
Another option is that you can weld stainless and aluminum with shield gas and the right wire.
The major difference between a brand name welder and a Harbor Freight model is the ability to get replacement parts if something breaks, So I would recommend that if you get a Harbor Freight model get the extended warranty! 
Buy the shield gas tank don't rent it! I too do a argon mix for steel welding.


----------



## ChopperCharles

You can weld 1/4" plate in two passes with the 115/120 volt flux welder. You bevel the edges, run a bead at the bottom of the bevel, and then run a fat bead on top of that. Or if you have access to both sides, bevel both sides and weld a bead on each side. I do 1/4" plate all the time. 

I would disagree with the replacement parts route. I had to replace the tips in my welder, as well as the trigger mechanism (I tripped on the cable and yanked the wires out of the torch. Should have put my stupid shield up). In both cases Harbor Freight had the replacement parts on hand. Now, if something electrical blew they wouldn't likely have that (but then, I wouldn't know what to replace anyhow, an if I did I'd use Digikey instead). 

In fact, once I actually got the tips at Home Depot... miller tips fit the harbor freight unit just fine. 

Charles.


----------



## KenBurkinshaw

*Choo Choo's never ending thread reminds me of the time that a neighbors' dog came and pissed on my front yard tree. :laugh: When I tried to bring up the subject at church sunday.....nobody cared*I wanted to gossip about it all day 

This thread is just sooooo interesting:thumbsdown:

and it has so much to do with large scale trains 

maybe I should go over to the HO section and post a thread about my new Chevy's hubcaps, and then every other day bring it to the top and talk about all the stuff that I find interesting. hwell:

I'll title the thread *GM Division makes things other than trains*, and then ramble on for months on end about all the cool stuff I do In life!!


----------



## sstlaure

choo choo said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Thanks so much for the welder recommendations.
> I'll likely go the simpler flux route because it will work well outside without a gas tank.
> 
> Is there any 120 volt welder that will do 1/4 inch plate?
> 
> Sean, I had used wire hangers for years when they were still around. Now I use a roll of heavy bailing wire.


This is the newer version of what I have (I've used mine for 10 years and NEVER had a problem) I weld outside all the time. It's rated to do 1/4 inch in double-pass (welding down both sides of the material 1/8" penetration per/pass.) I recommend a welding cart to be one of the first projects (needed anyway and it doesn't matter if the welds look like crap.) Pretty quickly you'll be laying down some nice beads.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25e...10053&langId=-1&keyword=lincoln&storeId=10051


----------



## sstlaure

KenBurkinshaw said:


> Choo Choo's never ending thread reminds me of the time that a neighbors' dog came and pissed on my front yard tree. :laugh: When I tried to bring up the subject at church sunday.....nobody cared
> 
> I wanted to gossip about it all day
> 
> This thread is just sooooo interesting:thumbsdown:
> 
> and it has so much to do with large scale trains
> 
> maybe I should go over to the HO section and post a thread about my new Chevy's hubcaps, and then every other day bring it to the top and talk about all the stuff that I find interesting. hwell:


That's an interesting way to win friends on a website.....

If you're not interested, don't read it.

It's Greg's thread, if he wants to derail it (or post mildly relevant information), that's his deal.

Some of us live on property and actually find his experiment in large-scale track very interesting and relevant.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

KenBurkinshaw said:


> *Choo Choo's never ending thread reminds me of the time that a neighbors' dog came and pissed on my front yard tree. :laugh: When I tried to bring up the subject at church sunday.....nobody cared*I wanted to gossip about it all day
> 
> This thread is just sooooo interesting:thumbsdown:
> 
> and it has so much to do with large scale trains
> 
> maybe I should go over to the HO section and post a thread about my new Chevy's hubcaps, and then every other day bring it to the top and talk about all the stuff that I find interesting. hwell:
> 
> I'll title the thread *GM Division makes things other than trains*, and then ramble on for months on end about all the cool stuff I do In life!!


Gosh, take a chill pill and call us in the morning.


----------



## sstlaure

KenBurkinshaw said:


> I usually won't have much to say, but will occasionally respond to a "How'd you do something" type inquiry, or compliment someone's work.
> 
> I look forward to the conversation!


Ken,
I think you can learn from yourself on this one (posted from his introduction)


----------



## tjcruiser

KenBurkinshaw said:


> *Choo Choo's never ending thread reminds me of the time that a neighbors' dog came and pissed on my front yard tree. :laugh: When I tried to bring up the subject at church sunday.....nobody cared*I wanted to gossip about it all day
> 
> This thread is just sooooo interesting:thumbsdown:
> 
> and it has so much to do with large scale trains
> 
> maybe I should go over to the HO section and post a thread about my new Chevy's hubcaps, and then every other day bring it to the top and talk about all the stuff that I find interesting. hwell:
> 
> I'll title the thread *GM Division makes things other than trains*, and then ramble on for months on end about all the cool stuff I do In life!!


I looked at my calendar. It's not yet April 1st. So, all I can wonder is: Is that post above for real?!?

WHAT is your problem, and where did this animosity materialize from?

At the outset of Greg's thread, he said (rightfully so) that he was posting this amazing custom build in our G section, because our forum does not have a dedicated section for larger modelling. Along the way, he has shown firsthand more ingenuity, creativity, sweat-equity, and all-around good spirit of "fun" in his weather-worn, hard-working fingers than many of us have combined in our whole "daily grind" lives. Greg is not just dreaming the dream ... he's building it, in his very back yard, and graciously sharing the joy associated with living that dream with the rest of us here.

So, Ken -- let me say this cleary and bluntly (and for those who know me here, these harsh words may come as a shock, and are far from my norm calm disposition) ...

Piss off, and leave this thread alone. Nobody forced you to read this thread, so why bother commenting? That attitude of yours is not welcomed here. And, if that attitude persists, you will not be welcomed at all on this forum. I say that with all intentions of carrying through on that meaning, if required.

TJ

===

Update ... one more point to others here ...

These are Ken's own words when he introduced himself as a new member on the forum:



KenBurkinshaw said:


> Hi
> 
> My name is Ken, I've been a life long model railroader...
> 
> *I usually won't have much to say, but will occasionally respond to a "How'd you do something" type inquiry, or compliment someone's work.*
> 
> I look forward to the conversation!


Looks like that "complimentary" attituded didn't last long, huh?


----------



## tooter

KenBurkinshaw said:


> *Choo Choo's never ending thread reminds me of the time that a neighbors' dog came and pissed on my front yard tree. :laugh: When I tried to bring up the subject at church sunday.....nobody cared*I wanted to gossip about it all day
> 
> This thread is just sooooo interesting:thumbsdown:
> 
> and it has so much to do with large scale trains
> 
> maybe I should go over to the HO section and post a thread about my new Chevy's hubcaps, and then every other day bring it to the top and talk about all the stuff that I find interesting. hwell:
> 
> I'll title the thread *GM Division makes things other than trains*, and then ramble on for months on end about all the cool stuff I do In life!!


Hey Ken, 

I'm glad you have the freedom to blow off some steam here. If this forum grows enough to have its own 1/8th scale train section, I'll be sure to move it there immediately. 

Train modelling uses the same basic principles regardless of size, and the enjoyment is exactly the same, whether it's Z or G. Each person here is an artist who paints their pictures of their train world. So why not start your own G thread and share with the good folk here the train world that you've painted? I* love* G trains and would truly enjoy seeing your work. :thumbsup:

Take Care,

Greg


----------



## KenBurkinshaw

Hey 

Guys, glad I got your attention. I didn't even have to be rude to get it!

Choo Choo (Greg) primarily models HO
TJCruiser (TJ) primarily models HO & O
Scott Models HO
Gunrunnerjohn models O, o27, and HO

*Yet you guys all feel free to continue to dominate and bury relevant threads to the scale that is the title of this part of the forum dedicated to G, #1, and other similar sized trains.  What's up with that???*

None of you guys even model this scale/gauge.
It's a shame the moderator does not model this scale, or this thread would have been killed long ago. I guess it's a good way to boost your post count, but it drives new folks away from this forum.

Choo Choo's original intent was relevant.....it stopped being so long ago.
Maybe you all should think about what your doing here, and maybe keep the posts pertinent, rather than just general questions and gossip.

Feel free to quote any part of this posting in your reply!


----------



## kursplat

KenBurkinshaw said:


> *Yet you guys all feel free to continue to dominate and bury relevant threads to the scale that is the title of this part of the forum dedicated to G, #1, and other similar sized trains.  What's up with that???*
> 
> None of you guys even model this scale/gauge.
> It's a shame the moderator does not model this scale, or this thread would have been killed long ago. I guess it's a good way to boost your post count, but it drives new folks away from this forum.


so this one thread, all by it's self, has completely decimated the entire G scale forum? wow 

sorry for uping my post count at someone else's expense


----------



## sstlaure

Ken,
The MAIN reason I like this site is that people aren't all uptight. We're all here because we love trains.....all of them, regardless of size, scale or accuracy.

I think that the people we have attracted to this forum, and who contribute regularly, like this site for that same reason.

I could give a rip about post count. We comment on other people's threads of all scales because we are genuinely interested.

You were warned by one of the moderators about why this thread was started where it was, and that you should refrain from continuing to act like an a-hole. (My words on the end there.)

Are you really so stuck up on your gauge that you can find nothing of interest in other scales or in understanding what other "train people" spend their time on?

This forum, the moderators and the just regular folk, enjoy to overall format and content of this site. We're helpful and friendly.....that being said, we don't care for a-holes.

If you want to act like an a-hole, expect a pretty rapid response. You've gotten your panties in a serious wad over a single thread that somehow contaminates the G/#1 scale sub-section of the forum. Too bad...... because your other posts seem to indicate you've got something to contribute if you could just get over yourself a little.

I don't dislike you because you model G scale. I dislike you because you're acting like an ***.

We don't really have too many G-scalers on here and I do like the larger equipment., so if you've got something to contribute, please begin....post enough and you can bury this thread you seem to dispise so much


----------



## sstlaure

The original intent of this thread was Greg building his large scale yard railroad. It still is. Whether it's discussion about the cars he's making to ride on it, how the track is laid, where he got it, overall layout design, drainage issues, equipment used to make it. Other than it not being G/#1 scale, I don't get the issue you have with it.


----------



## raleets

sstlaure said:


> Ken,
> The MAIN reason I like this site is that people aren't all uptight. We're all here because we love trains.....all of them, regardless of size, scale or accuracy.
> 
> I think that the people we have attracted to this forum, and who contribute regularly, like this site for that same reason.
> 
> I could give a rip about post count. We comment on other people's threads of all scales because we are genuinely interested.
> 
> You were warned by one of the moderators about why this thread was started where it was, and that you should refrain from continuing to act like an a-hole. (My words on the end there.)
> 
> Are you really so stuck up on your gauge that you can find nothing of interest in other scales or in understanding what other "train people" spend their time on?
> 
> This forum, the moderators and the just regular folk, enjoy to overall format and content of this site. We're helpful and friendly.....that being said, we don't care for a-holes.
> 
> If you want to act like an a-hole, expect a pretty rapid response. You've gotten your panties in a serious wad over a single thread that somehow contaminates the G/#1 scale sub-section of the forum. Too bad...... because your other posts seem to indicate you've got something to contribute if you could just get over yourself a little.
> 
> I don't dislike you because you model G scale. I dislike you because you're acting like an ***.
> 
> We don't really have too many G-scalers on here and I do like the larger equipment., so if you've got something to contribute, please begin....post enough and you can bury this thread you seem to dispise so much


Scott,
Double dittos! Well stated and totally agreed!
Bob


----------



## tooter

KenBurkinshaw said:


> Choo Choo (Greg) primarily models HO


Thanks for the reminder, Ken... 
I'll see if I can figure out how to add 1/8th scale to the scales modeled section.



> Choo Choo's original intent was relevant.....it stopped being so long ago.
> Maybe you all should think about what your doing here, and maybe keep the posts pertinent, rather than just general questions and gossip.
> 
> Feel free to quote any part of this posting in your reply!


I can't speak for the others here, but I'm an informal blue collar tradesman, and am likely to bring up all sorts of irrelevant ancillary stuff. So if that's what you're referring to, I'm guilty as charged. 

And please feel free to start G gauge threads about your layout... with lots of pictures, too. I'd like to see what you've done.

Greg


----------



## sstlaure

The olive branch is extended graciously yet again by Greg.....WWKD?

You're too nice Greg.



KenBurkinshaw said:


> Guys, glad I got your attention. I didn't even have to be rude to get it!


Obviously we've been taught very different definitions of what rude is. I would think inserting yourself into a discussion and telling the person who started the discussion that their topic isn't relevant or interesting to anyone would be a pretty rude thing to do. Where I come from that's a good way to find yourself suddenly sitting on the ground wondering WTF just happened.

Do you act like this with people in person, or is this an internet thing for you?


----------



## tooter

Hey Scott, 

Thanks for the recommendation... :thumbsup:

I went to Home Depot, got the Lincoln 125, then got everything else from Harbor Freight.


----------



## sstlaure

No problem Greg....if you want pics of my welding cart, just let me know. I made it to hold an 80lb bottle and have a small shelf for my welding helmet, etc.

Is that one of the auto-darkening electronic welding masks? They're the best (The HF ones work just fine and can be had for about $30.)


----------



## tooter

sstlaure said:


> The olive branch is extended graciously yet again by Greg.....WWKD?


Maybe Ken will pick it up and post some pics of his G train layout. I'm curious if participating is a priority. 

What about it Ken? Wanna come play trains with us.


----------



## tooter

sstlaure said:


> No problem Greg....if you want pics of my welding cart, just let me know. I made it to hold an 80lb bottle and have a small shelf for my welding helmet, etc.
> 
> Is that one of the auto-darkening electronic welding masks? They're the best (The HF ones work just fine and can be had for about $30.)


Yes, it's an auto dark. Harbor Freight had them on sale for $50. I need all the help I can get to make it as easy as possible.


----------



## sstlaure

choo choo said:


> Yes, it's an auto dark. Harbor Freight had them on sale for $50.


I just put mine up on a shelf in the sunlight to keep it charged. You're gonna love that set-up.


----------



## Prospect193

I cant see what the problem is!!! I love reading about your build, its fascinating!! I remember as a child in Melbourne Australia my next door neighbour had something similar to yours built around the entire house, i use to climb the fence and watch him drive his train around the yard!! It was oh so cool!!

Pat


----------



## NIMT

KenBurkinshaw,
I will give you a fine quote from a favorite show of mine...Holy crap on a cracker! Who Pooped in your wheaties?
What you didn't feel like throwing me under the train wheels too, I feel so left out!
For those who don't know I work on every thing from Z to 7 1/2" and all of them have something in common in some way or another. In reading all the posts from everyone over the years I have learned so much more about the entire hobby!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Why did it take you so long to voice you wonderful opinion. You joined back in Jan and I would have thought in all you righteousness that you would have said some thing way back then!
Choo Choo has been flying solo on this project for a little while because I've been buried under 2 feet of snow but the sky's a clearing and the snows a melting so look out, I'll be here soon to add more input and "miss" direction to this fine thread!
What fine posts have you contributed to this forum? Besides your latest attempt at "Bully on the block"!
Have a great day!


----------



## tooter

Prospect193 said:


> I cant see what the problem is!!! I love reading about your build, its fascinating!! I remember as a child in Melbourne Australia my next door neighbour had something similar to yours built around the entire house, i use to climb the fence and watch him drive his train around the yard!! It was oh so cool!!
> 
> Pat


Hey Pat, 

I had a similar experience... when I was a kid, our next door neighbor somehow got a hold of an old used oval of 12 inch gauge steel railroad track and a home made wooden push cart to roll around on it. 

Well, the neighbor's kid and me would spend *hours* on end taking turns riding and pushing while playing "Runaway Mining Car"!  God, we had *so* much fun! I've never forgotten the feeling of rolling on steel rails even though there was no powered engine or train.


----------



## Prospect193

Damn straight I envy you as I never got to ride his. Although there is a miniature railway that was close to where we lived and had my sons 5th birthday there!! I reckon the parents had more fun than the kids!!


Pat


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We're all gonna' have a party at Greg's house when the train tracks are completed. While we're there, we will have to power at least one of his contraptions to put some *thrill* into the ride.


----------



## ChopperCharles

I must say, please don't listen to the one disgruntled guy, I absolutely LOVE reading about this project, the moment I found it I subscribed to the thread and I've been thrilled with every update!

Charles.


----------



## tooter

sstlaure said:


> This is the newer version of what I have (I've used mine for 10 years and NEVER had a problem) I weld outside all the time. It's rated to do 1/4 inch in double-pass (welding down both sides of the material 1/8" penetration per/pass.) I recommend a welding cart to be one of the first projects (needed anyway and it doesn't matter if the welds look like crap.) Pretty quickly you'll be laying down some nice beads.


Hey Scott, 

Just tried out the Lincoln 125 welder today, and experimented with a 14 gauge box section on 1/4 inch plate. Wow... this is like a *hot glue gun* for metal!

I think I had it turned up too high because the 1/4 inch plate actually warped. :laugh: It's mild steel so it bent right back into shape. The welds were fat too, so I think I need to angle the tip more and maybe move faster. What an *amazing* invention. I've thinking about scratch building my own switch track and also a crossover, so the welder will now make them possible.


----------



## ChopperCharles

Also don't forget, you PUSH a bead with electric welding. You should weld away from you, with the tip angled into the material, don't pull it to you. 

Charles.


----------



## tooter

Funny you should mention that, Charles... because I've been reading up on the push pull issue and the consensus of the certified welders is pull for flux core welding. As far as I can tell, it seems to work ok both ways, but then I'm just happy if the two pieces stay stuck together! :laugh:


----------



## sstlaure

choo choo said:


> Hey Scott,
> 
> Just tried out the Lincoln 125 welder today, and experimented with a 14 gauge box section on 1/4 inch plate. Wow... this is like a *hot glue gun* for metal!
> 
> I think I had it turned up too high because the 1/4 inch plate actually warped. :laugh: It's mild steel so it bent right back into shape. The welds were fat too, so I think I need to angle the tip more and maybe move faster. What an *amazing* invention. I've thinking about scratch building my own switch track and also a crossover, so the welder will now make them possible.


I always place a few tacks down the length of the piece to be welded to hold it in place, then I try to limit the amount of total heat I put in the piece by welding in 1" or so lengths - go top, bottom, middle, then go 1/2 way between top and middle, then 1/2 way between middle/bottom and work my way to a complete bead 1" at a time. If it's a long run I'll let things cool after every few sections. Those 110 machines are only about a 20% duty cycle so you only want to run it about 2 out of 10 minutes, any more and you may damage it or trip your breakers.

Also - avoid using extension cords greater than about 15ft as you really need the current to properly power those.

They are tons of fun. Nothing like melting metal with electricity.

I actually typically pull towards me and make small circles in a counter-clockwise direction, slowly moving the tip down the length of the bead. The end result looks like stacked dimes. You know you're getting good penetration when you see the heat affected zone going out from the bead. If it's not discolored along the edge of the bead for a good 1/8" out, your bead may look good but it's just sitting on top of the other material.

I made a bunch of test pieces and smashed them apart with a hammer to test my welds. It shouldn't fail through the weld, parent material should tear first.


----------



## NIMT

I do my welds the same way as Scott. 
It's better to keep the welds small and light with good penetration, Heavy, shallow welds will not make it any stronger.


----------



## tooter

sstlaure said:


> They are tons of fun. Nothing like melting metal with electricity.


I've actually done a fair amount of welding in my work... but it's never been intentional! :laugh:

Since getting the welder... I've also been working on a simple design for a small turntable.


----------



## Big Ed

KenBurkinshaw said:


> *Choo Choo's never ending thread reminds me of the time that a neighbors' dog came and pissed on my front yard tree. :laugh: When I tried to bring up the subject at church sunday.....nobody cared*I wanted to gossip about it all day
> 
> This thread is just sooooo interesting:thumbsdown:
> 
> and it has so much to do with large scale trains
> 
> maybe I should go over to the HO section and post a thread about my new Chevy's hubcaps, and then every other day bring it to the top and talk about all the stuff that I find interesting. hwell:
> 
> I'll title the thread *GM Division makes things other than trains*, and then ramble on for months on end about all the cool stuff I do In life!!


Wow how did I miss this till now?
What the _ _ _ _!
You notice he edits everything he posts?

The New Ed won't comment, BUT YOU ALL KNOW WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY!:thumbsdown: ( I think mild mannered TJ said it, but not like I would have.)

One comment, (sorry)
I don't think the dog pissed on his tree but crapped in his mouth!


Back to the new Ed,
Why can't Greg's scale be added on the last one, it does say other.
I believe when Reckers joined a S scale was added to the column, how hard is it to add one?

Keep any crybabies from whining.


----------



## raleets

Scott, NIMT, Choo Choo, and all other "welders" on the forum,
I'm super GREEN with envy at you guys who've had the nads to try welding. 
As a young lad, I watched my Grandfather, who was a 43-year welder at the Studebaker assembly plant in South Bend, IN, lay down masterfully perfect beads like a surgeon. Not only that, but the old geezer smoked stinky cigars AT THE SAME TIME underneath his welding helmet!  He could weld with one arm tied behind his back and swore like a drunken sailor if the slightest little thing wasn't perfect with his weld.
I determined, then and there, that I would NEVER attempt to follow in his welding footsteps and have lived up to my promise!
But, all this being said, I've TOTALLY enjoyed following ChooChoo's fantastic adventure with his backyard layout. It's incredibly cool, so please carry on.
Thanks,
Bob


----------



## tjcruiser

big ed said:


> Why can't Greg's scale be added on the last one, it does say other.
> I believe when Reckers joined a S scale was added to the column, how hard is it to add one?


Ed,

If we grow more thread on this large-scale stuff, we can certainly add a new dedicated section to the forum. For now, the G/Other works, but we can keep the option open.

TJ


----------



## tooter

I looked for a large scale forum and so far haven't found one that anyone is actively posting on, because hardly anyone does 7.5" gauge. However, the principles are still the same regardless of size. You attempt to recreate your vision of the mood of a time and place by modelling an environment.


----------



## tjcruiser

> Greg, is that the proper terminology for the generic size ... 7.5" gauge? Is 7.5" some accepted defacto standard (as opposed to say 8" or something like that)? Is there a distinction (in terminology or otherwise) for ride-on (people) 7.5" trains vs. others of the same size (if they exist) that are not really meant for people?
> 
> Very naive questions here ... but thinking about constituents / breakdown of some future forum category here.
> 
> TJ


TJ's COMMENT ABOVE...

GREG'S RESPONSE BELOW ...

Hey tj, 

It's frustratingly vague... I've done *lots* of searches trying to dig up info. These turn up the most of the little bit of info that's there to be found:


1/8th scale
1 1/2 inch scale
live steam
7.5 inch gauge
7 1/2" gauge
7 1/4" gauge
riding railroad

Riding railroad is the broadest descriptor, as it takes in *all* of the gauges large enough to ride on, which are

1" scale (5 3/4" gauge)
1 1/2" scale (7.5" gauge, the most common) 
E scale (1.6" scale) 
2 1/2" scale narrow gauge (growing in popularity)

I believe the problem is that there are so few people modelling this stuff, there simply aren't enough enthusiasts to form a consensus. No publications to speak of, and no forums. There are a few helpful personal websites where people posted the progress of their own projects. Those have the most info. But you're basically on your own in figuring out how to do things. 

Seven and a half inch is the most common gauge in the US. The Brits use seven and a quarter. I use 7 5/8 gauge, because of the small radius turns, the extra bit of width reduces wheel binding.

When I get my pull cart finished, I'm going to join the Los Angeles Live Steamers so that I can interact with other 7.5 gaugers. I'm the most interested in trackwork, and they have crews who do that, so I'll volunteer to gain more experience in the technique of track laying.

Parts are maddeningly difficult to get and outrageously expensive as many companies are out of business, while others are "manufacturing" custom one-off items. The steel rails come from Switzerland because no one in the US makes them. I'm waiting two months for some operating couplers with coupler pockets just so I can hook everything together. 

While on the bright side, the visceral sensations and sounds of riding on steel wheels rolling on steel rails is a truly *authentic* railroad experience... and that makes it *all* worthwhile.


----------



## ChopperCharles

edit - realized I was off-topic and I don't want to hijack the thread.

Charles


----------



## tooter

Hey Charles, 

Please don't let that hold you back. What did you want to say? 

Greg


----------



## ChopperCharles

Heh, just posted a pic of my finished welding project - my chopper... but there's a pic of that in the "other hobbies" topic, and I don't need to show off in this thread. I'd rather choo choo post more pictures of his awesome yard! 

Charles.


----------



## tjcruiser

Greg,

Thanks for the detailed large-scale info response, above. Please keep us all posted re: your ongoing findings in the world or large-scale. I guess it is all a bit non-uniform, but activity like your backyard-build certainly helps to gain interest and momentum!

(Note that you inadverntly responded with the Edit tab, so your post is tagged under my header ... no worries, but just a heads-up in the future  )

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## sstlaure

tjcruiser said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thanks for the detailed large-scale info response, above. Please keep us all posted re: your ongoing findings in the world or large-scale. I guess it is all a bit non-uniform, but activity like your backyard-build certainly helps to gain interest and momentum!
> 
> (Note that you inadverntly responded with the Edit tab, so your post is tagged under my header ... no worries, but just a heads-up in the future  )
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


Here I thought choo choo was referring to himself in the 3rd person


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

tjcruiser said:


> (Note that you inadverntly responded with the Edit tab, so your post is tagged under my header ... no worries, but just a heads-up in the future  )


It took me a minute to figure out why you were talking to yourself.  I remember I used to do that occasionally on boards that I moderated. Usually, I'd catch myself after starting the edit.


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thanks for the detailed large-scale info response, above. Please keep us all posted re: your ongoing findings in the world or large-scale. I guess it is all a bit non-uniform


Yes, it is...
From what I've seen, the individualists who put riding trains in their yards tend to be a little on the quirky side... which is why it appeals to me. 

There's one amazing guy, who I believe is from Spain, who has beautiful YouTube videos of the point to point railroad in his back yard. He scratchbuilt *everything*... big motorized diesel engine, rolling stock... right down to the track, the switches, and switch levers. 



> but activity like your backyard-build certainly helps to gain interest and momentum!


I think it's the opposite... and is dying hobby because the modellers are almost all old guys like me. :laugh:



> (Note that you inadverntly responded with the Edit tab, so your post is tagged under my header ... no worries, but just a heads-up in the future  )
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


Oops... sorry about that.hwell:


----------



## NIMT

But wait I'm not old...And my wife certainly is not and we both have a huge interest in it now thanks to you!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

There are some SERIOUS large scalers out there....check this place out (took my kids there last summer with my Dad) The amount of track and equipment he has is insane.

White Creek Railroad in Cedar Springs, here’s their website

http://whitecreekrr.com/

and here’s a private page with some good images.

http://jambuch.home.insightbb.com/page3.html


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

He also had a TON of money to spend!


----------



## tjcruiser

Scott, Greg, etc.

Wow! That White Creek 1:8 RR is spectacular!

My only complaint is that it's located a bit too far from RI! 

Thanks for sharing their info ... quite the impressive setup.

TJ


----------



## tooter

Oh, so you think *that's* hardcore railroading? :laugh:


This is Bill. He sold me all the 7.5" gauge track supplies...










When I went to pick them up at his place, he showed me the *full sized* *1:1* three foot narrow gauge railroad he's building on a *huge* piece of land.

My effing jaw *dropped!*

Notice his steam engine? See that it's number 4? 

Number 3 and number 2 are *full sized* engines that belonged to *Walt Disney* and ran at DisneyWorld. Bill owns *both* of them and is restoring them... 

...and I *saw* them.


----------



## gc53dfgc

choo choo said:


> Oh, so you think *that's* hardcore railroading? :laugh:
> 
> 
> This is Bill. He sold me all the 7.5" gauge track supplies...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I went to pick them up at his place, he showed me the *full sized* *1:1* three foot narrow gauge railroad he's building on a *huge* piece of land.
> 
> My effing jaw *dropped!*
> 
> Notice his steam engine? See that it's number 4?
> 
> Number 3 and number 2 are *full sized* engines that belonged to *Walt Disney* and ran at DisneyWorld. Bill owns *both* of them and is restoring them...
> 
> ...and I *saw* them.


WAIT! You tellin me that they sold the steam engines that run at Disney World!? I was there maybe 5 years ago...Has it changed that much? This will just not do.

Also, Greg I want to do a railroad idea similar to yours but I want something a little larger for the larger people ya know to ride in more comfortably. I am wondering what say a 4-6-2 pacific would scale down to if i decided to go 1:4 and where to get the proper rails. (I'm bad at conversions) Would Bill sell something to that order or even be able to make them?


----------



## sstlaure

Too cool....


----------



## tooter

gc53dfgc said:


> WAIT! You tellin me that they sold the steam engines that run at Disney World!? I was there maybe 5 years ago...Has it changed that much? This will just not do.


No... I believe these engines were replaced with others. These were older trains, possibly the original runners.



> Also, Greg I want to do a railroad idea similar to yours but I want something a little larger for the larger people ya know to ride in more comfortably. I am wondering what say a 4-6-2 pacific would scale down to if i decided to go 1:4 and where to get the proper rails. (I'm bad at conversions) Would Bill sell something to that order or even be able to make them?


*GO HERE...* 

http://rmirailworks.com/ 

They sell engines and rolling stock up to *3.75 inch scale*, and complete track supplies up to *15"* *gauge*.

Bill *owns* this company... and can supply you with absolutely *anything* you want. 

Greg


----------



## sstlaure

choo choo said:


> No... I believe these engines were replaced with others. These were older trains, possibly the original runners.
> 
> 
> 
> *GO HERE...*
> 
> http://rmirailworks.com/
> 
> They sell engines and rolling stock up to *3.75 inch scale*, and complete track supplies up to *15"* *gauge*.
> 
> Bill *owns* this company... and can supply you with absolutely *anything* you want.
> 
> 
> Greg


Make sure to bring your big wallet. Wow. No way my wife would be in for that unless we won the lottery.


----------



## tooter

Starting to layout a handcar shed...










...to have a place to park the pull cart and the rolling stock. I'll be levelling the ground where those black base pieces are laying, and will be running some rails right into the shed so I can roll the stuff out instead of having to carry it. That black flat car is over 100 pounds! 

The shed is this one...


----------



## tjcruiser

Greg ... you need 8 sheds like that, arranging them adjacent to each other in a semi-circle configuration ... and a big turntable at the entrance ...



Hey -- your example's of Bill's work, above, are incredible. Amazing talent!

TJ


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Hey -- your example's of Bill's work, above, are incredible. Amazing talent!
> 
> TJ


Bill is a truly amazing man...
You would not believe the engineering on that three foot narrow gauge railroad I saw. There's a steel beam bridge about 40 feet long that's over 20 feet above grade. He also built a 30 foot tunnel out of corrugated galvanized steel aquaduct sections...



















This gives you just a tiny glimpse of the *massive* scale of the railroad. The engineering is absolutely incredible. Hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of earth have been moved. The whole area is being *terraformed* to fit the design of the railroads. What you don't see underground is even more amazing. There are literally *miles* of electrical, communications, irrigation, and drainage lines buried underground. (He also has a collection of full sized fire engines. )

Besides the 3 footer, there is also a *huge* 7.5 inch railroad which includes a mine with *real* mining cars. So far there are no publicly posted pictures of Bill's railroad because everything is still under construction.


----------



## kursplat

choo choo said:


> Bill is a truly amazing man...
> You would not believe the engineering on that three foot narrow gauge railroad I saw. There's a steel beam bridge about 40 feet long that's over 20 feet above grade. He also built a 30 foot tunnel out of corrugated galvanized steel aquaduct sections...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This gives you just a tiny glimpse of the *massive* scale of the railroad. The engineering is absolutely incredible. Hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of earth have been moved. The whole area is being *terraformed* to fit the design of the railroads. What you don't see underground is even more amazing. There are literally *miles* of electrical, communications, irrigation, and drainage lines buried underground. (He also has a collection of full sized fire engines. )
> 
> Besides the 3 footer, there is also a *huge* 7.5 inch railroad which includes a mine with *real* mining cars. So far there are no publicly posted pictures of Bill's railroad because everything is still under construction.


it warms my heart when people with massive amounts of $$ know how to have fun with it :thumbsup:

i vote for the turntable / mini round houses


----------



## tooter

kursplat said:


> it warms my heart when people with massive amounts of $$ know how to have fun with it :thumbsup:


Bill is a happy man who makes this world a better place in which to live. 



> i vote for the turntable / mini round houses


Sorry... not enough room for that. I'm already getting the stinkeye from my wife for the handcar shed. 

Greg


----------



## kursplat

choo choo said:


> sorry... Not enough room for that. I'm already getting the stinkeye from my wife for the handcar shed.
> 
> Greg


 ........


----------



## tooter

It's ok... 
A roundhouse isn't consistent with a small narrow gauge mining train, but a handcart shed is.


----------



## kursplat

choo choo said:


> It's ok...
> A roundhouse isn't consistent with a small narrow gauge mining train, but a handcart shed is.


 ya, i was thinking you could make them look like mine entrances :thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

It's a rainy Saturday... no railroad work today...


----------



## kursplat

all that rain will do a good job of settling in all that dirt you've been moving :thumbsup:
we got 2" so far here near balboa park, doing a great job of refilling the rain barrels


----------



## TulsaFlyer

KenBurkinshaw said:


> Hey
> 
> Guys, glad I got your attention. I didn't even have to be rude to get it!
> 
> Choo Choo (Greg) primarily models HO
> TJCruiser (TJ) primarily models HO & O
> Scott Models HO
> Gunrunnerjohn models O, o27, and HO
> 
> *Yet you guys all feel free to continue to dominate and bury relevant threads to the scale that is the title of this part of the forum dedicated to G, #1, and other similar sized trains.  What's up with that???*
> 
> None of you guys even model this scale/gauge.
> It's a shame the moderator does not model this scale, or this thread would have been killed long ago. I guess it's a good way to boost your post count, but it drives new folks away from this forum.
> 
> Choo Choo's original intent was relevant.....it stopped being so long ago.
> Maybe you all should think about what your doing here, and maybe keep the posts pertinent, rather than just general questions and gossip.
> 
> Feel free to quote any part of this posting in your reply!


Well, I went to your profile and on the right where it says "friends" I got my chuckle for the day. So thank you for that. 

Now back to Choo Choo's railroad.....

I've been following this thread since it began with great expectation. Watching Choo Choo's progress is inspirational to say the least. And the "off topic" ramblings are more "on topic" than one would first believe.
The chats of the welders I have found interesting because I have one of those cheapo Harbor Freight flux welders and I might actually learn how to make it work better. 
I found ChopperCharles comments on welding 1/4 inch plate educational.

Keep on railroading Choo Choo!!


Jody


----------



## tooter

kursplat said:


> all that rain will do a good job of settling in all that dirt you've been moving :thumbsup:
> we got 2" so far here near balboa park, doing a great job of refilling the rain barrels


Yeah, our horse trough filled up last night and was already overflowing this morning. I always wanted to paddle a kayak around on Burbank Boulevard when it floods.:laugh:

Greg


----------



## tooter

Did some cement work on the grade crossing...










Next will be some redwood fillers on each side of the rails...










The leaves and debris is already making the tracks look like they've been there a while. Everything will eventually get covered over except the rails.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It's "weathering".


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey Greg,

I know that we talked a while back about your use of those "stone molds" to make the path ... a clever molding tool gizmo with its multi-stone/nested pattern. Nice job on creating the path "tail ends" to blend in seamlessly! Looks great.

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

Hey Greg are you sure the post for the RR crossing sign is big enough?

How come so big? 
Are you going to install lights and a bell on it too?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> Hey Greg are you sure the post for the RR crossing sign is big enough?
> 
> How come so big?
> Are you going to install lights and a bell on it too?


That's in case a train hits it.


----------



## ChopperCharles

Have you seen this site? VERY cool ideas: 
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/beat/non/loco/locoJ8/index2.html

Specifically:










and











Charles.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I like the little switcher with the ore carts.


----------



## ChopperCharles

That last tank car.... if it were my world, that would actually be a smoker to cook a pig in! 

(If you're not familiar with the south, this:










Charles.


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> Hey Greg are you sure the post for the RR crossing sign is big enough?
> 
> How come so big?
> Are you going to install lights and a bell on it too?


Hey Ed, 

You're absolutely right. 2x2s were too small and 4x4s are too large. I'm going to rip down two sides to make it into a 3x3.

Worked a little more on the crossing...



















One of the scraps is short... but I guess that's why they call them scraps. 

The inside board will get the edges mitered to clear the wheel flanges and they all get stained dark before being attached onto the ties.


----------



## kursplat

the crossing looks fantastic :thumbsup: are you going to screw the redwood into the rail ties or just anchor to the ground?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, he said "attached onto the ties", so I assume that's what he's doing.


----------



## Dave Sams

ChopperCharles said:


> Have you seen this site? VERY cool ideas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles.


I want to see them pedal that thing.


----------



## tjcruiser

Don't lean to the left or right, though! Whoops!


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, he said "attached onto the ties", so I assume that's what he's doing.


Yes, the "plastic wood" ties readily accept screws and really hold tight. Just finished staining the wood...


----------



## tjcruiser

You swapped out the short piece for a longer piece, huh? Looks great.

TJ


----------



## tooter

ChopperCharles said:


> Have you seen this site? VERY cool ideas:
> http://www.ne.jp/asahi/beat/non/loco/locoJ8/index2.html
> 
> Specifically:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles.


Wow... thanks Charles!

How did you find that site?

Looks like the pedals on that *really neato* railbike :thumbsup: are just for footrests, and its electrically driven.


----------



## tooter

Check out this railbike!


----------



## tooter

Here's a closer detail of the little electric rail bike...










It even has an English Brooks leather seat!


----------



## tjcruiser

I'm confused ...

That looks like a conventional gear sprocket on the "pedal" shaft, but clearly the pedals are not 180-deg apart, and don't look like they turn. And I see no chain around the sprocket. I'm guessing (?) that the rear axle is driven via a belt of some sort directly from the motor above it? So ... if all that is true ... What is the sprocket gear for ???

TJ


----------



## tooter

Hey tj, 

Look real close at the rear of the rail bike and you can see a car battery. The sprocket on the pedals has red chain wrapped around it just to cover the sharp sproket teeth. that thing is motorized. It was built by Mr. Inoue...










This guy is over 80 years old and is one of the finest train modellers in japan. It's positively mindblowing what this genius has created...

This is his workshop...










This is the insides of an O gauge logging loco powered by a mechanism taken out of a blood pressure monitor...












Stratchbuilt live steamers...


















He also does restorations...


----------



## tjcruiser

Wow ... that's some impressive custom fab work. Very creative!

Back to the bike. Per your comment, I'm guessing that the big sprocket (at the pedals) was a carry-over from a modified bicycle. No drive chain around that that I see. I do see, however, what looks like another smaller sprocket (maybe) directly on the rear axle, with a criss-crossed chain going directly up to the elec motor?

Either way, this guy does amazing stuff!

TJ


----------



## tooter

Mr. Inoue is a freaking train *genius*... get this, a *ONE* wheeled engine! 





 
He's created a whole series of positively *mindblowing* trains...


----------



## tjcruiser

OMG! It's an *0-1-0* !!! Incredible! I wouldn't have thought it was possible! Quite amazing what a little gyro can do!

Do you know if he does this stuff professionally, or is it just a hobby (albeit an amazing one) "on the side"?

At 80+, he certainly offers "active mind / healthy life" inspiration to us all.

TJ


----------



## tooter

I have no idea... 

Mr. Inoue (on the left) is apparently very well known and highly respected in the Japanese train modelling world.










He even built a train that runs on a bicycle wheel...










Another one of his unique creations...










...and another...










Mr. Inoue is an example of what happens in a person's life when they *do* what they truly* love* to do.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That is some pretty wild stuff! Love the one wheel train, I'd like to see a full size prototype.


----------



## Big Ed

He is a Japanese version of our T Man with this one.


----------



## tooter

I finally took the time to rip the Railroad Crossing sign pole down to a 3x3 so it matches the scale of the sign a little better... 

Before...










...and after.


----------



## tooter

Assembled the Maintenance of Way hand car shed today...


----------



## ChopperCharles

How do you get the hand car from the shed onto the rails?

Charles.


----------



## tooter

ChopperCharles said:


> How do you get the hand car from the shed onto the rails?
> 
> Charles.


Just like the real hand cars there's handles on each end to lift it onto the main line.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm assuming the large hand from the sky picks it up and turns it to go into the shed, just like on your layout. :laugh:

Doesn't look like it fits into the shed, none of the photos show it all the way in.


----------



## tooter

You're right, John... 
The shed is too short to hold both the flat car...








...and the hand car end to end on the same track. The flat car is behind the hand car, that's why it isn't all inside. I need put a parallel track in the shed so that everything fits inside.


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm assuming the large hand from the sky picks it up and turns it to go into the shed, just like on your layout. :laugh:


Not quite... that cart weighs over 80 pounds so I lift it one end at a time.

On the real ones, there was a flat wood surface between and outside the rails and at the T junction of the tracks...










... so that the hand car could be moved one end at a time while the wheels rested on the wood platform.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You just need more shed!


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You just need more shed!


Hey John... I know when not to push my luck in what goes in the back yard. I'm lucky to have that one.


----------



## tjcruiser

Greg,

Where you have T'd off the pair of rails going to the shed, you appear to have one short section of track on the main line, perpendicular to the rails of the main line. What's the rationale / thinking there? If you're just hand-lifting and turning the cart, why that short piece of rail?

Just curious,

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

choo choo said:


> Hey John... I know when not to push my luck in what goes in the back yard. I'm lucky to have that one.


Hell, she let you put in all the tracks, I say go for the bigger shed!


----------



## gc53dfgc

I would say go for an all wooden shed so it fits in a little better with the natural feel.


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Greg,
> 
> Where you have T'd off the pair of rails going to the shed, you appear to have one short section of track on the main line, perpendicular to the rails of the main line. What's the rationale / thinking there? If you're just hand-lifting and turning the cart, why that short piece of rail?
> 
> Just curious,
> 
> TJ


Hey TJ, 

That was just a loose piece of scrap track. I was exploring the possibility of building a cross track with the welder. That thing works slicker than snot.  I'm for sure going to weld together a simple straight section of Decauville track for the handcar shed.


----------



## tooter

Just built my first piece of Decauville track... 










...it'll run from the "main line" into the handcar shed. With no bulky ties, it'll lie nice and flat on the floor of the shed. 

While searching the internet for info on rail construction. I came across this obscure Frenchman (Decauville) who invented a lightweight sectional industrial narrow gauge track system in the late 1800's. This guy's amazing inventiveness inspired me to make a piece of track similar to his.


----------



## sstlaure

Looking great choo choo.

Here's a link to the White Creek RR that I mentioned before that I visited last summer - apparently it's in the May 2012 issue of MRR magazine. Neat video of a trip around the 5 mile long mainline.

http://mrr.trains.com/en/Videos/Lay...tm_campaign=MR_News_120329_final&utm_content=


----------



## tooter

sstlaure said:


> Looking great choo choo.
> 
> Here's a link to the White Creek RR that I mentioned before that I visited last summer - apparently it's in the May 2012 issue of MRR magazine. Neat video of a trip around the 5 mile long mainline.
> 
> http://mrr.trains.com/en/Videos/Lay...tm_campaign=MR_News_120329_final&utm_content=


Thanks for thinking of me, Scott. 
I've watched a bunch of White Creek videos on YouTube and they're really neato. That's a very large and excellently constructed railroad.

Greg


----------



## tooter

Installed the Decauville track to the hand cart shed and cut the door to clear the rails...


----------



## dkirksey

wish I had the room for that....maybe one day


----------



## tooter

dkirksey said:


> wish I had the room for that....maybe one day


For decades it was exactly the same for me... and then one day came.
If it came for me, it can come for you.


----------



## sstlaure

Looking terrific Greg.


----------



## tooter

Thanks Scott... 
Layed another 10 feet of track today and moved the hand car shed so it wasn't stuck right in the middle of the yard...





































The main track is flat at the new Hand car shed location so when I take the cars out, they don't want to take off down the hill. :laugh:


----------



## tjcruiser

New shed location frees up a much better view of the pond, too!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

All you have to do now is hide those trash cans!


----------



## Big Ed

You need some crossing gates.:thumbsup:

RR sign looks better now.


----------



## tooter

Did some more track work...  and the weeds are filling in nicely for that old time abandoned narrow gauge look.









































































There was a considerable grade change at the bottom of the hill that would have put too mush stress at the points of attachment so I set a 10 foot section between two 6x6's and jumped on it to put a swoop in it. Now the joints are nice and straight with the grade change in the rails themselves.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You're the only guy I know that tries to grow weeds!


----------



## tooter

That's not weeds... that's a hillbilly lawn.


----------



## Big Ed

choo choo said:


> That's not weeds... that's a hillbilly lawn.



You should Johnie Appleseed some wildflower seeds around the rails.


----------



## raleets

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You're the only guy I know that tries to grow weeds!


My wife is a Naturopathic Doctor (N.D.) and she LOVES dandelions because of their medicinal healing properties. When our lawn service mows them down she goes into mourning! 
I certainly DON'T argue with the Doctor, let alone the wife! 
Soldier on,
bob


----------



## tjcruiser

Thar's GREEN in them thar RR ties! :thumbsup:


----------



## gc53dfgc

Now how are you going to safely mow around and above the track when it comes time?


----------



## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> Now how are you going to safely mow around and above the track when it comes time?



He is building a track mower car. A true MOW car.


----------



## tooter

gc53dfgc said:


> Now how are you going to safely mow around and above the track when it comes time?


I use a string trimmer, because this is the country and nothing around here is mowed.


----------



## tooter

Don't know why the post I placed a few hours ago disappeared... 

Anyways, took the pull car for a spin... 





 
The curve at the bottom is level, then the straight climbs at a 5% grade which increases to 7% at the next turn.


----------



## sstlaure

Lookin good Greg


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Goes down the hill smoother than going up!


----------



## tooter

7% is an unheard of grade for any backyard riding railroad. 2-3% is considered normal limits. It's more rollercoaster than railroad. I even had to trim the weeds because if the wheels smashed them they would cause the wheels to loose traction and the cart would start sliding backwards down the hill. :laugh: It's actually very easy to winch the car up the hill because while the lever doesn't make any speed, it has lots of leverage. I needed to swap speed for leverage otherwise it would not handle the extremely steep grades... 

...but oh, does it make up for it on the way down! 

I can't wait to get the rest of the rails bedded down to ground level so that when I go downhill I won't need to stop at the bottom, and can just let the momentum carry the cart around.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Having a place to coast to will really be cool! I still think you need power for the grades.


----------



## tjcruiser

He's getting pedal power from Sean soon, right??? 15 gear speeds, or something like that.


----------



## NIMT

Tj,
I miss spoke when I said the pedal car is 15 speeds...It actually 21
That should do the trick for Choo Choo's hilly layout!
I'm now working on the brakes for it!


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Having a place to coast to will really be cool! I still think you need power for the grades.


I'm the power for the grades. 

Before I started to dig the right of way down to grade, the rails were connected and the cart would coast all the way through the winding section before it would come to a stop at the next grade at the far side...










It's a pretty wild ride!

Sorry for the edit marker, John. I accidently hit edit instead of quote.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Not to worry Greg, it's real easy to hit the Edit when you're a mod, all the messages have the button! I have to keep myself from hitting the SPAM button by mistake for replies as well!


----------



## Kwikster

That looks like a blast to ride around. Nice work man

Carl


----------



## ChopperCharles

Have you seen this awesomeness? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z7buTCULLeY






Charles.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That looks like a _*blast *_Charles, too cool!


----------



## tooter

I got a chance to lay some rail today on the spur line... 










It's a nice 30 foot long straightaway. The next rail will cross the creek bridge and begin the uphill turn around the propane tank. Also trying to teach our chicken (Bock Bock) railroad safety by looking both ways before she crosses the tracks, but she hasn't quite got the concept down yet.


----------



## Dave Sams

I have to ask, Why did the chicken cross the track?



30' of track is a good day!

Thanks for the update. I joined a 7 1/2" gauge club over the weekend. 

I hope to post pictures some day. 

2 acres of track, but no chickens.


----------



## tjcruiser

ChopperCharles said:


> Have you seen this awesomeness? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z7buTCULLeY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles.


Did you see the totally reclined (and beer-toting) operator's position on that thing? Awesome! Sign me up!!!

TJ


----------



## tooter

Testing the spur line... 





 
...Bock Bock was reluctant to ride the cart.


----------



## tooter

Began work on the railbike Sean sent me...

*Thanks Sean!* :thumbsup:

He did some really creative mechanical engineering to get power to the wheels. It has derailling issues that there was no way he could have known about because of only having straight tracks to test it on. Both the front and the back derailled 2 inches into a curve. But the solution was simple. Some washers were added to the top of the front which now keeps the guides from binding and preventing the truck from freely tracking and pivoting. I had to remove one set of wheels from the rear to keep it on the tracks. This was just enough to be able to do a test run...





 
That's a grade that starts level and goes up to 7%. The railbike has just enough traction to make it up the hill alone but not enough to push or pull the flat car along with it. I'll need to figure out some way to get the other wheels to pivot and be powered at the same time.


----------



## tjcruiser

Greg, Sean ...

Very nice collaboarative effort here! Fun to see it coming together ... debug process, and all.

How about some close-up pics of the mechanics?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## tooter

Layed another section of track... 










Those purple track gauges really help to hold the rails just right while I'm screwing everything together. There's a severe grade change right at the joint because it's the crest of the hill, so I'm going to have to dig for China to smooth it out.


----------



## ChopperCharles

What's the deal with two rails on top of each other? What's that all about?

Charles.


----------



## tooter

That's how I build each section.  Note that top section was only partially assembled. This is after that section was all assembled and laid. It was dark by the time I was done with it...










That section of track underneath already laid is all level and true, so I use it as a "table" to build the next section. The ties and rail plates are individually attached on to the rails just like hand laid HO tracks, except they're bigger. It makes is so much easier not having to try to assemble the sections on uneven ground.


----------



## tjcruiser

You need a headlamp, Greg ... a bright one!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Time for the full powered train.


----------



## tooter

Did another track test. The run in the video is 100 feet...


----------



## wsorfan4003

Did I mention jealousy??


----------



## tooter

The main line is almost completed! 

This is the crest of the hill...










This is the straight section going down the other side...










This is the curve at the bottom going up the hill to meet the downhill straight...










And this is the botttom curves with the one going up the hill...









There's now enough uphill track to stop the flat car all by itself...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lookin' good, how much do you have left to lay?


----------



## tjcruiser

Falling into place very nicely, Greg ... I love the twists and turns!

The flatcar sure runs quietly.

TJ


----------



## tooter

About 20 feet total. Less than a 10 foot straight section whose length will be determined by, and a free form S curve I need to cut to length to make the two ends meet...










There are two very useful tools to laying track. That small white circle on the left side of the pic is a inclinometer, and also the red level. One keeps the grade transitions smooth, while the other keeps the left and right rails level with each other. I found that when laying track there are narrow parameters that need to be observed to keep the trains on the tracks. I have to do a *lot* of track testing to get things just right before filling in the dirt around the ties to make sure it's safe for travel.


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> Falling into place very nicely, Greg ... I love the twists and turns!
> 
> The flatcar sure runs quietly.
> 
> TJ


That's because the last track test video has no sound. 
The sound is broken on my camera, for the videos what have sound I borrowed my wife's camera. The S curves at the bottom are to go around a large oak tree, and there will be one more small S curve to make the two ends meet squarely. It's going to be a small narrow gauge mining and logging mountain railroad. 

I've been searching for a short scrap length of large diameter pvc aquaduct pipe to install a tunnel. Likely about 5 foot diameter and 8 feet long. Like this except shorter...


----------



## wingnut163

maybe check with your local town road crew. they may have some pipe left over from some job they did.


----------



## NYC 5344

Hey, you're Tooter on the other model railroad forum! I liked reading about this project, glad to see you made it over here. Also I'm glad to see progress on the railroad.


----------



## tooter

Yeah, I can't be tooter here because someone else was already tooter. :laugh:

The main line is nearing completion...



















I'm using tangents to determine where the rails will be cut. Everything needs to be just right to get properly aligned connections. This is especially critical as it is in a steep grade so the train will be moving really fast.


----------



## tooter

All the rails are cut to fit and it looks pretty good so far... 










...so now the rails get drilled to accept the connector plates and attached to the ties.


----------



## tooter

Did a track test just to make sure everything works right... 





 
Had to be unmanned run as I get thrown off the flat car.


----------



## Big Ed

And he is singing.....I've been working on the railroad.......All the live-long day........I've been working on the railroad......Just to pass the time away.

I can't continue with the rest because you don't have a whistle to blow. 

A tunnel, didn't I mention a tunnel before? :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

choo choo said:


> Yeah, I can't be tooter here because someone else was already tooter. :laugh:


I just checked, no *tooter* registered here as of right now.


----------



## tooter

Wow... I thought I had tried tooter when I first came here and it didn't work. I'll give a try and even give up my post count.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

No need, we can just change your name in the admin panel, everything stays the same except for the name.


----------



## tooter

Hey, thanks a million John! :thumbsup:

I'll log out now and log in later to see if tooter works.

Greg


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Welcome back *tooter*.


----------



## tooter

Thanks, John. 



...as the mighty tooter phoenix rises up from the choo choo ashes.

Greg


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Boy, that is one ugly bird, are you sure you like your new name?


----------



## tooter

An overview of the main line...


----------



## sstlaure

Very cool Greg - I was SOOOOO confused when I was reading this tooter character's thread and it looked JUST like choo choo's.


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Boy, that is one ugly bird, are you sure you like your new name?


I do. 

...and I don't look much different from that dodo bird. :laugh:

Greg


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

tooter said:


> ...and I don't look much different from that dodo bird. :laugh:


So, this was a self-portrait, right?


----------



## tooter

Pretty much, John. It captures my spirit as well.


----------



## tooter

The top of the mountain pass is all finalized and dug in. If the straight at the upper right looks like it has a hump in it, it does. The grade goes from less than 1% to 6 percent. When grade changes are made at the rail joints, the trains derail. So grade changes need to be made in the rails themselves. So after I attach all the ties, I put the 10 foot sections up on 6x6's and jump on them to put bends in the rails. Smooth grade transitions within the rail sections never cause derailments...










And I made a simple black and orange safety stop at the end of the spur line...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Let's hope you don't hit that safety stop too hard. 

Can't wait to see the live steam locomotive running the rails.


----------



## eljefe

This is a pretty impressive undertaking. What kind of locomotives are you planning to run? Are you a member of the Los Angeles Live Steamers?


----------



## tooter

eljefe said:


> This is a pretty impressive undertaking. What kind of locomotives are you planning to run? Are you a member of the Los Angeles Live Steamers?


I have two in the works. They're both human powered and geared really low. There aren't any engines made that will climb 7% grades. Today is a landmark for the railroad. layed the last rail and screwed in the last tie in the main line. Stamped the tie *03 17 2013*

(woo hoo  )










The main line is 180 feet and it took 16 months to lay the track...


----------



## wsorfan4003

tooter? what happened to choo choo?  looks nice..  Completion party at your place? :laugh::thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

wsorfan5593 said:


> tooter? what happened to choo choo?  looks nice..  Completion party at your place? :laugh::thumbsup:


No more choo choo. 
I'm tooter in some other places on the web so John allowed me be tooter here. No railroad is ever completed! :laugh: The kids in the neighborhood already want rides. I still have two engines to work on, need to convert the flat car into a low gondola for riders, and there's more rail to lay on the spur line... 










My railroad now has a name:

*ROCKY ROAD*


----------



## Big Ed

What did you put on Deadmans corner, a rerailer? :thumbsup:

You have a 7% grade in that yard?


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> What did you put on Deadmans corner, a rerailer? :thumbsup:


I had two pieces of curved rail left over and didn't have a good place to stack them because of the awkward shape so I just screwed them to the ties. 



> You have a 7% grade in that yard?


Yes. 





 
The yard just looks flat when viewed from the 2nd floor looking down on it...











I tried riding the flat car down that descent in the video and got thrown off, and that's the 6% side. On the other side just past the wye it's 7%. This is as much a rollercoaster as it is a railroad!:laugh:


----------



## wingnut163

i know this is arm chair talking and monday morning crew chef but did you ever consider to make a tunnel or a cut to lensing the grade?


----------



## tooter

wingnut163 said:


> i know this is arm chair talking and monday morning crew chef but did you ever consider to make a tunnel or a cut to lensing the grade?


Because the whole yard is sloped, half the track would have to be dug in below grade, and I didn't want to do that because it would create drainage issues as well as looking unsightly. My approach is to only have the tops of the rails unobtrusively showing, and it's working out pretty well as dirt leaves and weeds are gradually covering the right of way... 










I did do some cutting on the "mountain pass" (left side of pic) at the highest part of the line. because having a change of grade from ascent to descent while in a curve created engineering nightmares trying to keep the rails level with each other.


----------



## Big Ed

Did the better half go for a spin yet?

What is in the water? Koi's/Coy's? ( I don't know what one is right.)
Being a vegetarian do/would you eat any fish?


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> Did the better half go for a spin yet?
> 
> What is in the water? Koi's/Coy's? ( I don't know what one is right.)
> Being a vegetarian do/would you eat any fish?


I'm not strict... and crack open a can of tuna now and then to get some fish oil and iodine. We also eat Bock Bock's eggs but draw the line at eating Bock Bock. I'm a vegetarian just for health reasons alone and have no problem with what other people choose to eat.

Those are just cheap 8 for a dollar goldfish feeders and some of them live long enough to get big. That box behind the pond is a cattle charger that electrifies the pond's perimeter to keep the raccoons from coming over for take out sushi. Before I electrified the pond they would tear out the lilies and eat everything that got over an inch and a half long. 

Now they get nothing. 

And yes, My wife rides when I have a rope and a handle tied to the flat car's coupler to control the speed of the descents.


----------



## sjm9911

Very nicely done..... I have never seen anything like it before. Great job.


----------



## tjcruiser

tooter said:


> Today is a landmark for the railroad. layed the last rail and screwed in the last tie in the main line. Stamped the tie *03 17 2013*


No Golden Spike ?!? 

The mainline looks GREAT ... twists, turns, hills ... loads of fun ... if you can stay on the car!

TJ


----------



## wsorfan4003

It still seems like you change the subject every time somebody brings up the idea of a forum party at your place... c'mon tooter, you need guinea pigs to work out the flaws... :laugh:


----------



## tooter

wsorfan4003 said:


> It still seems like you change the subject every time somebody brings up the idea of a forum party at your place... c'mon tooter, you need guinea pigs to work out the flaws... :laugh:


I honestly didn't think that you were serious about a party because you're in Wisconsin and I'm in California. PM me if you want come for to visit. 

Greg


----------



## wsorfan4003

tooter said:


> I honestly didn't think that you were serious about a party because you're in Wisconsin and I'm in California. PM me if you want come for to visit.
> 
> Greg


No I wasn't, just having a little fun :laugh:


----------



## tooter

That makes sense... 
It would be like taking a cross country trek to Disneyworld just to go on one ride. :laugh:

Greg


----------



## Big Ed

Bock Bock eggs? 

You can't have a barbeque at his place.


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> Bock Bock eggs?


Yeah, it's considered bad poultry etiquette to eat eggs in the presence of the chicken who laid them.



> You can't have a barbeque at his place.


We actually have regular BBQ parties during the warm season, but no one brings chicken. :thumbsup:


----------



## Big Ed

tooter said:


> Yeah, it's considered bad poultry etiquette to eat eggs in the presence of the chicken who laid them.
> 
> I never heard "bock bock" must be a California thing?
> 
> 
> 
> We actually have regular BBQ parties during the warm season, but no one brings chicken. :thumbsup:


What do they bring for the barbecue? 
Lettuce and carrots ?


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> What do they bring for the barbecue?
> Lettuce and carrots ?


Just the usual beef, pork, and fish.


----------



## Big Ed

tooter said:


> Just the usual beef, pork, and fish.



OK explain bock bock eggs?

A California thing?

I never heard of them?


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> OK explain bock bock eggs?
> 
> A California thing?
> 
> I never heard of them?


Ok, Ed. 

Bock Bock is the name of our chicken.


----------



## NYC 5344

Very creative name...


----------



## tooter

It's just the sound she makes. 

The pull cart traction issue was resolved by clearing all of the weeds away from the rails. The weedwhacker worked perfectly. I just ran it along both sides of each rail to completely clean them. And then took a scrubbie to the rail tops. The wheels crushing the green grass were lubricating the rails and the cart would keep slipping back down the hill even with all 4 wheels driven. Now it climbs right up the steepest 7 percent grade at the curve leading to the wye...


----------



## wsorfan4003

I have to stop watching this thread it pains me...


----------



## Big Ed

tooter said:


> Ok, Ed.
> 
> Bock Bock is the name of our chicken.


OH I see, I thought it might be some eggs I never heard of.
Or maybe Ostrich eggs or some other kind of eggs. :laugh:

I can see your neighbors when your outside yelling for the chicken.
bock bock bock bock come here bock bock bock bock. 

Now you need to make a livestock car for bock bock to ride in. :thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

wsorfan4003 said:


> I have to stop watching this thread it pains me...


You could have one too, fan...  
One circle of 12.5' radius track will fit within a 30'x30' space, so even a small yard can have a riding railway. :thumbsup:


----------



## wsorfan4003

tooter said:


> You could have one too, fan...
> One circle of 12.5' radius track will fit within a 30'x30' space, so even a small yard can have a riding railway. :thumbsup:


Someday, maybe, when I can purchase my own house.  I might have to get one of these though:










:laugh:

Saw them at the Mad City Train Show last month.


----------



## tooter

wsorfan4003 said:


> Someday, maybe, when I can purchase my own house.


You have plenty of time. I was 50 before I had enough money to build my own house. 



> I might have to get one of these though:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> Saw them at the Mad City Train Show last month.


Oooh... I like UP colors. I have passenger cars that match.


----------



## tooter

The tooter train took to the rails today... 




























I discovered the real world limits of the little pull cart. It can get the flat car up the 7% grade but not with an adult passenger on it.


----------



## eljefe

Maybe you need one of these!










http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/1_burns/index.htm


----------



## tooter

eljefe said:


> Maybe you need one of these!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/1_burns/index.htm


Not likely! :laugh: 

That's only 2 wheel drive. The pull cart is 4 wheel driven. Most steam, gasoline, or electric powered trains are designed to handle only a 3 or 4 percent grade at the most.


----------



## santafe158

You need a shay.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You need an motor on the cart!


----------



## tjcruiser

It's a one-human-power motor!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

tjcruiser said:


> It's a one-human-power motor!


And apparently insufficient for the task.


----------



## tooter

Heye guys... the problem isn't power, it's traction. 

The pull handle has enough leverage to winch a loaded flat car up the grade. But only at the steepest curve, all 4 wheels spin. Nothing with a motor will climb that grade either even without a load. There's a hatch under the pull cart's seat so I'm goiong to try adding some ballast. Maybe I need some Bullfrog Snot! :laugh:


----------



## sjm9911

Tooter, home Depot sells a spray paint traction spray. It goes on clear and adds a bit of rough texture to things, I don't know how it would effect the rails, hold up or if it would help but it's an idea. It's made for steps, etc., or rubberized wheels? Just throwing out ideas. Good luck.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Traction tires.


----------



## wsorfan4003

Uh Oh, I just saw the provoking I did cause more people provoking... :laugh: Still like it, motor or human powered... :thumbsup:


----------



## tooter

sjm9911 said:


> Tooter, home Depot sells a spray paint traction spray. It goes on clear and adds a bit of rough texture to things, I don't know how it would effect the rails, hold up or if it would help but it's an idea. It's made for steps, etc., or rubberized wheels? Just throwing out ideas. Good luck.


That's actually a good idea... 
I can just spray the rails on the steepest run and leave everything else alone. The cart runs fine except on the grade. I was even thinking of filing little crosscut grooves for more grip but I didn't want irreversably spoil the rails.


----------



## sjm9911

It only a good Idea if it works, keep us posted. ( and if it turns out to be a good idea then I'm done for the year! )


----------



## tooter

I'll let you know...

I even thought of using sand for traction like the steam locos do.


----------



## santafe158

tooter said:


> I'll let you know...
> 
> I even thought of using sand for traction like the steam locos do.



Diesels and electric locomotives use sand too, even today.


----------



## tjcruiser

Traction issues? Add weight. 4 or 5 MTF members should do it. Get the bunkhouse ready!


----------



## tooter

I'm going to use inert ballast I don't need to feed...


----------



## wsorfan4003

Potluck then? We won't let you do everything...:laugh:


----------



## eljefe

Maybe you need more power. And a huge checkbook!

http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/1_todaro/index.htm


----------



## tooter

Yeah, can you see that engine negotiating 12.5 foot radius curves.... I can't. 

By the way, I really enjoy going through all the classifieds in DiscoverLiveSteam, and have sourced some really nice equipment for the railroad from them.


----------



## Big Ed

eljefe said:


> Maybe you need more power. And a huge checkbook!
> 
> http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/1_todaro/index.htm



Maybe you can save money on that Challenger by buying the kit.
Then you just have to build it. 

Special only $189,900 and includes 2 cars.
I will take 2 of them, I wonder if that includes shipping?


----------



## sjm9911

I'd personally wait till the price reaches 184,900$ I don't see a need to purchase it while the price is still in the high end.


----------



## tooter

Live steam is certainly a rich man's toy. I want the fun of a riding railroad without the high end price range.

However... there is a little speeder that's powered by a quiet Honda engine and both axles are chain driven by a 5 speed transmission...










It even has a disc brake. I just might get one of these if I could know that it would climb a 7% grade. It's made by the same guy I got the speeder wheels from for the pull cart. I've been to the machine shop and his workmanship is impeccable.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

If he's local, maybe you could have a test run.


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If he's local, maybe you could have a test run.


He's about 40 miles away. They're around four grand so that decision will take some consideration. I'll talk to the owner and see what he says.

Speeders do have a distinctive advantage over other engines in that the additional weight of the engineer sits directly on top of the drive wheels rather than being pulled behind behind them on an engineer car. And this one is absolutely first class with a really nice 2.5 horsepower Honda engine, 5 speed transmission, disc brake, and all wheels chain driven.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Sounds like a very cool toy!


----------



## tooter

The speeder will still be a while off as I'm working on refining the pull cart's operation, and after that I'll be working on the tracking, traction, and braking issues on Sean's railbike which has more practical potential for pulling a passenger loaded flat car than the little pull cart does.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I have faith, you can put a motor on the Railbike.


----------



## tooter

Sean's railbike is actually the last item that would get a motor. It pedals really smooth and there's plenty of of leg leverage because you are pushing against the back of the seat. It's next on the worklist after the pull cart.

If I do pull the trigger on anything with a motor, it will be that speeder for sure because with a 5 speed transmission it has the best chance of working.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We need to see you on the Railbike, let's have an actual test.


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> We need to see you on the Railbike, let's have an actual test.


Here ya go... 





 




 
And I'm not the only one testing a railbike... 





 
Their railroad is huge with extremely large radius curves, so wheelbase tracking isn't an issue. They're also running what appears to be a three speed hub for gearing.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I guess I forgot those.


----------



## tooter

Well, they're not what you could call memorable. I'll make some better videos soon.

Sean's drive design is better because it's less complicated than the other railbike. Derailleur gearing is far more efficient than a planetary geared hub.


----------



## Big Ed

Man, the seat hurts my butt & back just by looking at it.


----------



## tjcruiser

Nice progress, Greg.

I'm waiting for Google to give us the updated satellite image of your layout!

TJ


----------



## tooter

Google Earth usually a couple of years in the past, so it'll be a while. Here's today's Google Earth view from 25 feet...


----------



## sjm9911

Tooter, looks wild, almost surreal, I whish that was my backyard!


----------



## tooter

sjm9911 said:


> Tooter, looks wild, almost surreal, I whish that was my backyard!


Thanks.
It's been sort of an art project to capture the feeling of a railroad on the canvas of the back yard. This is a lifelong dream come true. When I was 5 years old I said I wanted to be a train engineer when I grew up... and now I am... even though I'm not grown up yet! :laugh:

Greg


----------



## tooter

I painted braking indications on the ties at the start of both grades to make the descents safer... 



















And we're having a birthday BBQ party for a friend... so everyone gets a train ride whether they want it or not.


----------



## tjcruiser

You could make a small fortune renting out the RR for birthday parties!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

While the braking indicators are cool, they're only functional if you actually apply the brakes here!


----------



## tooter

gunrunnerjohn said:


> While the braking indicators are cool, they're only functional if you actually apply the brakes here!


...then you find out the consequences really quick! :laugh:

The marks work as good indicators, especially for new riders, because they're precisely at the points where the cart begins to roll on its own. The little pull cart was a *big* hit at the party. Everyone took turns riding and had lots of fun!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Sounds like a great time, did anyone flip it off the tracks?  :laugh:


----------



## tooter

Nothing major, and no injuries. 
When riders were not sure what to do, I followed them down the hill with a handle and rope tied to the rear coupler to scrub off any excessive speed. 

It was suprizing to see the reactions. We're all older adults, but everyone became a kid again on the pull cart. It's like a little amusement park ride in your yard.


----------



## sjm9911

When's the ticket booth getting installed?it looks like a blast!


----------



## tooter

No tickets... just a donation box.


----------



## tooter

Nature is doing it's job at making the rails unobtrusive.



















This is *exactly* the look I was going for... 
I wanted to be able to have a riding railroad in the yard, and yet not have it become a dominant feature that disrupts the natural park like scenery.


----------



## dkirksey

nice job, enjoy


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It is rapidly fading into the landscape, looks like it's been there forever.


----------



## tjcruiser

Love the twists and turns!


----------



## tooter

So do I. 
It's funny, this has been as much an art project as it is railroad modeling. There's something I find to be so beautiful about old overgrown railway tracks. This is my inspiration...























...for this...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the rolling stock isn't weathered, you're going to have to work on that.


----------



## tjcruiser

It looks to me like YOUR track will be good inspiration for others who follow!


----------



## sjm9911

Nice! I like it.


----------



## maddmax

well i have read through every page!!! And i am impressed!! Great Work tooter


----------



## tooter

maddmax said:


> well i have read through every page!!! And i am impressed!! Great Work tooter


Thanks, Max. 

Reading the thread is quite a task in itself. 
I made a video of a trip on the little railroad. It's not very fast, because the hand car needed to be geared really low to climb the 7% grades.





 
It's amazing, small as it is, how it's possible to recreate a genuine railroad feeling. I love the sound of the steel wheels rolling on the iron rails.


----------



## sjm9911

Tooter great video, like I said before whish I had that yard. Looks like fun. Thanks for the whole thread. I enjoyed it.


----------



## eljefe

Looks like it's time to break out the weed whacker!


----------



## tooter

The dry weather took care of the weeds... 

I haven't done much with the railroad lately because I've been really busy with work and automotive hobby projects. The boards at the grade crossing were warping and coming loose and generally looking crappy so I replaced them with a concrete grade crossing.










It took some trial and error to make sure the flanges didn't hit the concrete, but now everything rolls nice and smooth over the crossing.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Who are you again?  I was thinking we'd have to send out the search dogs for you.


----------



## eljefe

I think he might be choochoo's evil twin. :sly:


----------



## tooter

Hey guys... 

I've been off in auto world building an experimental intake manifold...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Care to explain the reasoning for that odd shape?


----------



## sstlaure

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Care to explain the reasoning for that odd shape?


Not to mention the SERIOUSLY beefed attachment flange....:smilie_daumenpos:

That looks like some kind of turbo intake to me........:smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## tooter

Yes. The manifold will handle any turbo pressure and also works well in normally aspirated applications. The flange is really thick so as not to deform when the runners are being welded onto it.

The plenum is designed to only present curved surfaces to the pulses transmitted out of the entrances of the runners. When a pulse hits a curves surface, its reflection is "smoothed out" because none of it can contact the surface at the same time.










Even the reverse bellmouth on the Throttle body velocity stack is completely curved out to 180 degrees.










The CNC machinist is presently making the base that will adapt the hemisphere to the mouths of the runners.










Once that's done, I'll install some tubing fittings, have the whole thing welded together, put it on, and drive it around long enough for the ECU to relearn the operating parameters of the manifold. 










Then it goes onto the dyno to quantify the results. 

On all current intake manifolds, the mouths of the runners are a 90 degrees to the axis of the throttle body. However on this particular one, they are in direct alignment.

I've been running one of these on my car for about a year now.










Bone stock, the 1,500cc engine dynos 91hp at the wheels. With this intake manifold, and this 4-2-1 tri Y exhaust header...











...the engine produces a peak of 110.7hp at the wheels. This is an increase of just under 22% with only bolt on components, the stock ECU, no tuning, and regular 87 octane pump gas. 

I've always been interested in flow design and am having lots of fun experimenting just to see what happens...


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## sstlaure

Most excellent - now if we could just get you driving something that doesn't run on soy sauce.........


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## tooter

Soy sauce is too salty. It runs on white rice.


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## sstlaure

OHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's as White Rice as it gets - lol

Seriously - I'll get you a nice discount on a Fiesta - you know the ST is out......

http://www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/trim/st/


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## Mayhem

tooter said:


> Yes. The manifold will handle any turbo pressure and also works well in normally aspirated applications. The flange is really thick so as not to deform when the runners are being welded onto it.
> 
> The plenum is designed to only present curved surfaces to the pulses transmitted out of the entrances of the runners. When a pulse hits a curves surface, its reflection is "smoothed out" because none of it can contact the surface at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the reverse bellmouth on the Throttle body velocity stack is completely curved out to 180 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The CNC machinist is presently making the base that will adapt the hemisphere to the mouths of the runners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once that's done, I'll install some tubing fittings, have the whole thing welded together, put it on, and drive it around long enough for the ECU to relearn the operating parameters of the manifold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it goes onto the dyno to quantify the results.
> 
> On all current intake manifolds, the mouths of the runners are a 90 degrees to the axis of the throttle body. However on this particular one, they are in direct alignment.
> 
> I've been running one of these on my car for about a year now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bone stock, the 1,500cc engine dynos 91hp at the wheels. With this intake manifold, and this 4-2-1 tri Y exhaust header...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...the engine produces a peak of 110.7hp at the wheels. This is an increase of just under 22% with only bolt on components, the stock ECU, no tuning, and regular 87 octane pump gas.
> 
> I've always been interested in flow design and am having lots of fun experimenting just to see what happens...


Im am surprised that you got those numbers with out a tune. Most modern car computers will dumb down what ever you do to the spec's preset in the ecm. It doesn't do it all at once but slowly it sets all parameters to operate back to stock operation.


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## Big Ed

Did you ever get any bites for the one you had posted on e bay?


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## tooter

sstlaure said:


> OHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's as White Rice as it gets - lol


If you think that's a white rice car.










I also have a white rice truck. 










They're both 2012's and I bought them both for $35k total cash out the door. Selling the two vehicles they replaced (1993 Hyundai + 1996 Toyota) reduced the net cost to $29k.



> Seriously - I'll get you a nice discount on a Fiesta - you know the ST is out......
> 
> http://www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/trim/st/


Sorry... I'll never own a car with a rubber cam timing belt 

JD Powers 2012 Vehicle Dependability Survey:

#1 Subcompact:* Toyota Yaris*
#1 Compact: *Toyota Prius*


*Both *of those cars use the *same* Toyota engine.

I rest my case.


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## tooter

big ed said:


> Did you ever get any bites for the one you had posted on e bay?


Yes. I've already sold two of them on ebay and am building another one to sell. I've actually sold more manifold building kits than complete manifolds.


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## tooter

Mayhem said:


> Im am surprised that you got those numbers with out a tune. Most modern car computers will dumb down what ever you do to the spec's preset in the ecm. It doesn't do it all at once but slowly it sets all parameters to operate back to stock operation.


We drove the car for about a month before I got a chance to dyno it, so it was already as dumbed down as it was going to get. What also helped is that the manifold's bore allowed for installing a larger throttle body.


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## Big Ed

tooter said:


> Yes. I've already sold two of them on ebay and am building another one to sell. I've actually sold more manifold building kits than complete manifolds.


That's good, sell 20 or so a month you will need a bigger shop and some workers. :thumbsup:

I like the Tooter added on it. Add an trumpet with air blowing from it, in front or back of tooter too. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## tooter

big ed said:


> That's good, sell 20 or so a month you will need a bigger shop and some workers. :thumbsup:
> 
> I like the Tooter added on it. Add an trumpet with air blowing from it, in front or back of tooter too. :smilie_daumenpos:


It's just a fun hobby and not my day job, Ed. 
The *last* thing I'd *ever* want is employees! :laugh:


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## Big Ed

tooter said:


> It's just a fun hobby and not my day job, Ed.
> The *last* thing I'd *ever* want is employees! :laugh:


You could import some Chinese workers.


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## tooter

big ed said:


> You could import some Chinese workers.


Hey Ed, 

Now just how could I ever manage employees when I can barely manage myself? 
I'm all excited as tomorrow marks the beginning of a new project. 
Going down to the machine shop to get the ball rolling.


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