# Diesel DCC



## Againtrains (Mar 6, 2016)

I want to get a Diesel DCC with sound in N scale. What do you recommend for sound? This will be my next big purchase. Then maybe a second steam dcc with sound.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

If readily installed sound is what you want,Broadway Limited offer a few interesting models in both steam and diesels.


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## bpiperjr (Dec 12, 2011)

I like BWL E units. They run well and have great sound.


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

*Dcc diesels*

BLI sounds good, and athearn sounds good also. But steam, the athearn challenger, and Bigboy. Also Bachmanns sounds good also.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

I actually have a Bachmann SD45 with sound. It was ok with the sound that comes inboard, but I ended up installing a new soundtraxx decoder on it. The N scale engines are a bit more of a work to do, but the payoff is great! I am not sure about the other mfgs mentioned, but I am following in case I want to venture out to another brand of Loco.. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Againtrains (Mar 6, 2016)

Whatever I get will have to be DCC installed. I have found out that I can not do fine scale soldering and such. Has to be farmed out. But that's life as you get older!


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Againtrains said:


> Whatever I get will have to be DCC installed. I have found out that I can not do fine scale soldering and such. Has to be farmed out. But that's life as you get older!


I'm with you on this! Just pulled the shell off a DCC-ready GP and there is no way I'd be successful.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Againtrains said:


> Whatever I get will have to be DCC installed. I have found out that I can not do fine scale soldering and such. Has to be farmed out. But that's life as you get older!


Understandable. I actually have been thinking myself about the day that I can't mess with things any longer. It's coming I sure, but I don't look forward to it... 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I can solder small things, but I tried installing sound decoders in a couple N Kato PA-1s. Did something wrong, burnt up two boards. Sent them to Mike Fifer (one of our MTF members) at Fifer Hobby Supply, and he did a good install job for me.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

I now have Broadway Limited and Scale Trains diesels with sound. One of my hobby shops wouldn't sell me the BLI because of quality issues they are having, so I bought one from their competitor -- after a few days it would no longer go forward. Sound worked and reverse movement was all normal, just no forward. I'm picking up a replacement today -- we'll see how long this one lasts.

Just got the Scale Trains Rivet Counter yesterday. See my post from this morning. 

Either way, the sound is much better than I expected in both. The sound while moving seems a little better to me in the BLI, but I might just need to turn up the volume on the Scale Trains loco. 

Overall, I'm surprised that so many manufacturers still sell locomotives with no DCC or sound.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

jackpresley said:


> Overall, I'm surprised that so many manufacturers still sell locomotives with no DCC or sound.


Not all of us can afford Lincolns, Mercedes, or Bugattis. And for that matter, some people don't want sound. Additionally, some people have their layouts as DC and don't want to buy DCC equipment.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Fire21 said:


> Not all of us can afford Lincolns, Mercedes, or Bugattis. And for that matter, some people don't want sound. Additionally, some people have their layouts as DC and don't want to buy DCC equipment.


Let me re-phrase that: I'm surprised so many manufacturers DO NOT OFFER locomotives with DCC and Sound, but just DCC ready. N scale is too difficult and expensive to add sound, in my opinion.

I'm also surprised they don't offer "dummies" with sound. Solves two problems with one dummy.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

I'm making a lateral transfer from O scale over to N, while still operating and maintaining my O layout.

Being new to N scale, I'm purchasing only locomotives equipped with DCC, yet really don't care all that much about sound in N. 

N scale is so small, I don't know why sound would even matter, especially given the tiny speakers, which it seems would affect the quality of the sound through them. Sound is O scale is a different story. 

From what I'm learning, DCC is much easier to wire and control than regular DC and since I'm just staring out, DCC for me seems the way to go. It also appears that with N scale locomotives, especially diesels, DCC doesn't cost that much more than regular DC. Again with O scale, it's a different story.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Yellowstone Special said:


> ...Being new to N scale, I'm purchasing only locomotives equipped with DCC, yet really don't care all that much about sound in N...


That's what I thought and the first locomotives I purchased have no sound. Then I got one with sound. Does it sound like the real thing, no -- it would rattle the house. But it sure sounds a lot better than a tiny electric motor scurrying around the layout. The tough questions are: Is it worth it? Can you get the locomotive you want/need with sound? Would a surround sound system be cheaper in the long run and provide better sound?


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

jackpresley said:


> I'm also surprised they don't offer "dummies" with sound. Solves two problems with one dummy.


I absolutely agree! Much larger speakers could be used, not having to compete for space with a motor and gears. Make them in A and B units. Perhaps those would be in an affordable price range to go with the DCC locos I already have. 

And seriously, how often do you see a train of any size with only one loco?

As far as steamers, what would be a typical car to follow the tender on a mixed freight?...Probably there is no typical. But some sound box cars sure would be nice. I'm not crafty enough to build my own, I don't think.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

jackpresley said:


> Overall, I'm surprised that so many manufacturers still sell locomotives with no DCC or sound.


Really? Why? That's the way some of us like them. It's the model railroading equivalent of unfinished furniture. Buy the basic stuff that's hard to make for yourself, and customize it the way you want it.

I don't want sound, so any loco sold with DCC+sound has already lost me as a potential buyer, because I'm sure as heck not going to buy one, and pay for the sound stuff, only to disconnect or disable it.

I can install my own decoder, from a reliable manufacturer, with the features I want, in under an hour; 15 minutes if it's DCC-ready.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

CT, I too like the flexibility you describe, as long as the decoders would be available for my favorite locomotives. But I don't care about sound either, at least in the smaller scales.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

CTValleyRR said:


> Really? Why? That's the way some of us like them. It's the model railroading equivalent of unfinished furniture. Buy the basic stuff that's hard to make for yourself, and customize it the way you want it.
> 
> I don't want sound, so any loco sold with DCC+sound has already lost me as a potential buyer, because I'm sure as heck not going to buy one, and pay for the sound stuff, only to disconnect or disable it.
> 
> I can install my own decoder, from a reliable manufacturer, with the features I want, in under an hour; 15 minutes if it's DCC-ready.


Luckily for you, you have practically EVERY locomotive produced today to choose from. I'm not sure I have found one yet that didn't come without sound. 

I'm an operator, not a mechanic. I don't have ANY desire to modify N scale (or HO for that matter) locomotives or rolling stock. I don't enjoy it so I do not do it. 

Why am I surprised? Well, I guess I should not be. Demand rules, so obviously I'm in the minority. I'm surprised because people will spend YEARS making things perfectly realistic but could care less about sounding the horn approaching a crossing. Apparently the majority doesn't care how unrealistic a muted locomotive is.

"It doesn't sound great." Maybe not, but at least it SOUNDS.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

jackpresley said:


> Let me re-phrase that: I'm surprised so many manufacturers DO NOT OFFER locomotives with DCC and Sound, but just DCC ready. N scale is too difficult and expensive to add sound, in my opinion.
> 
> I'm also surprised they don't offer "dummies" with sound. Solves two problems with one dummy.


I haven't seen any "dummies", but I know soundtraxx has the soundcarr systems.. When I gutted my N locomotives, and added the current keepers, and even for the HO ones, at the time (and even when I purchased my sound decoders), I didn't fully get the soundcarr system. But after a while I understood it, and it is just what you guys are speaking about. I was thinking honestly about upgrading a car or two with one of these systems, just to see how it would work to run stereo in a few cars.. 

And I too turn the sound off quite a bit. But at the same time, I do enjoy turning on, and hearing the sound sometimes.. Just depends on the day for me. So even though I don't listen to it all the time, I like having the "option" to turn it on.. 

Sent from my Note8 using Tapatalk


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

If all you have is a small layout and have several trains running at the same time, I could see how sound would be annoying. I don't have that problem, my layout is 45' x 24' and has a single track main. When locos get about 10' - 15' away you can hardly hear then, just like a real train. DCC and sound has made my model railroad more fun and realistic.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

jackpresley said:


> Luckily for you, you have practically EVERY locomotive produced today to choose from. I'm not sure I have found one yet that didn't come without sound.
> 
> I'm an operator, not a mechanic. I don't have ANY desire to modify N scale (or HO for that matter) locomotives or rolling stock. I don't enjoy it so I do not do it.
> 
> ...


Sound is a matter of personal preference, and how you treat it. I do love the sound of a steam whistle -- nothing is better music to my ears than hearing the lonely cry of the steam whistle on the Essex Steam Train drifting past my house. But at roughly 6 miles as the crow flies, I can't hear ANY engine sounds at all, and I only hear the whistle when conditions are right.

My layout that simulates about 26 miles of actual distance in a "C" shaped configuration, with Old Saybrook at one end of the C and Middletown at the other. The physical distance between the two is roughly 15 feet. So why would I want an operator standing in "Old Saybrook" to hear the sounds made by the train in "Middletown". Or for that matter, in Cedar Hill yard, which in reality is about 50 miles away, but is separated only by a backdrop in my basement (maybe 9 feet from an operator in "Old Saybrook". Running multiple locomotives rapidly results in a cacophony of blended noises, which detracts from the illusion of physical distance, and (at least for me) totally destroys any satisfaction I would get from the operational realism of sounding a whistle or horn at a crossing (for example). That whistle is sounded only in my imagination, but that's the way I want it. Realism is in the eye of the beholder (or ear of the listener, in this case). Some of us find the added realism that sound provides to the individual train doesn't overcome the loss of realism to the selective compression of our layouts. 

Those observations are in no way trying to tell anyone else how they should operate their layout, or whether they should rethink their choice of sound. Model railroading is, and always should be, about doing things your way. I hope manufacturers continue to offer us the choice between customizing the way we want it, and adding all the bells and whistles (pun intended) at the factory.


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

I think the DC era will end in the next 5-10 years. Today people want everything instantly, don't want to wait. Most new to the hobby will want the sound, even though possibly too loud, but listening to a 50 car train pass in complete silence, isn't terribly real either. 

I have yet to see a manufacturer make their projected delivery time, due to the fact, I assume, not enough were ordered by the time deadline to make the delivery deadline. I know that Atlas is having a major problem. Broadway had a lot of problems with their 6000. I bought 5 of them and sent them all back, but they were fixed and returned to me in less than 10 days. I like their product, but like how they do business better. I have some Intermountain and Kato engines that I have a problem with, but it is always my fault or the layout. I waited almost 6 months for a replaced engine from Intermountain.

Buying on line is the current way people buy everything it seems. This is killing the dealer, where we could go and learn certain things. I have been told by my local dealer that Rivot counter requires an 8000.00 buy in. He can't afford to do that. Without the dealers ordering and warehousing the product, the manufacturer won't build it. You can look on line and see very good DC engines, brand new for less than 40.00. Hard to make a living on a 40.00 sale item, and keep the doors to the train shop open.

I admit I buy on line, sometimes the price is good not to. But normally I ask my dealer if he has access to this or that and if he does, I pony up the extra 25-30 bucks he charges. I like to walk into the shop and look at, pick up and examine what I am buying, but those days are numbered I am afraid 

I have purchased a bunch of BLI locomotives. Of course all with sound. I have noticed the new Paragon 3 units are much quieter out of the box. I am sure they can be adjusted louder, but I think I am more into turning them down to the level of the newer ones. I have a pretty large layout and really don't want to hear the trains on the other side while operating. 

If I were running without DCC and sound, I think I would buy a back up round to have when things wear out. I don't have the ability to fix things like a lot of you guys do.


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## cathouse willy (Mar 5, 2017)

My layout is dc only and while I'm tempted by dcc I have 9 dc locomotives that are not easily converted. To get some sound I bought Kato's sound box and 2 sound cards one for diesels and another for steam. The sound is an "in cab" effect. I can sound the whistle, turn on the bell and simulate coupler clanks and air brake release sounds. I run the sound through my old sherwood amp and a pair of good speakers. I've had the neighbours comment on how loud the local train yard down by the river sounded last night.Lots of fun.


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

Sounds pretty kool willy. Getting the neighbors to comment on it is amazing.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I run all scales, most with sound. I like sound. I was trying to keep my N scale DC
powered. Most DCC locos with sound say on the box they can be. run with DC. A
member here on the forum was selling a Atlas Gold series S2 switcher with DCC and 
sound. N scale and for a good price. I bought it. My purchase kinda turned into a bust.
The atlas manual said it was not recommended to run loco with DC power. A first for me. So I hooked up my DCC system I use for HO. What crummy sound the Atlas was.
Well not crummy but way too low of volume. With DCC I turned the volume all the way up. I have to lean way in to hear it. Too small of a speaker I guess. No more N scale sound locos for me. I convert HO to DCC but N is too small for me to work on. If you
can't hear it why pay for it.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Simple sound From a dummy B-unit*



Fire21 said:


> I absolutely agree! Much larger speakers could be used, not having to compete for space with a motor and gears. Make them in A and B units. Perhaps those would be in an affordable price range to go with the DCC locos I already have.
> 
> And seriously, how often do you see a train of any size with only one loco?
> 
> As far as steamers, what would be a typical car to follow the tender on a mixed freight?...Probably there is no typical. But some sound box cars sure would be nice. I'm not crafty enough to build my own, I don't think.


 Fire 21;

You don't have to be all that crafty to create a sound-producing dummy B-unit (or A-unit, or boxcar) I did it, and so can you if you want. First I bought a "drop in" type Soundtrax decoder for a Kato N-scale F-unit diesel. It was very easy to install, but had the problem mentioned by Yellowstone Special earlier. The speaker built into the decoder was tiny, and it fired it's sound up into a closed plastic shell. This meant it produced only very faint sound. My solution was to mount a bigger and better-sounding speaker in an old Bachman B-unit that I had lying around. The speaker came from my local surplus electronic parts store. It is oval-shaped and just the right size to fit an N-scale loco or car shell. I think it was from a laptop computer.
I cut out much of the plastic floor of the Bachman B-unit, leaving just the frame sides in the center portion, and the full floor over the trucks. I mounted the speaker facing downward, so that the sounds would be fired down and bounce off the track. The only wiring necessary was to solder two tiny wires from the decoder's original speaker in the A-unit, back to the new speaker in the trailing B-unit. I connected the two units with a drawbar instead of couplers to protect the connecting wires. Huge improvement in sound quality and volume! Install the decoder, cut one hole, glue a new speaker over it and connect two wires. That's it. Not much craftiness required. It would also be possible to mount the decoder inside the B-unit over the speaker. The B-unit would need metal wheeled trucks and electrical pickups, so use the mechanism, minus motor and worm gears, from one of those old dead locos most of us have around. This would mean the B-Unit, or boxcar, could be coupled behind any diesel you wanted. If you can't find a salvaged laptop speaker, commercial speakers are available.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Againtrains (Mar 6, 2016)

*Sound from Intermountain*

Played a little bit with my NEW SD40-2. For being so small it has great sound. I am going to have to adjust the volume levels a small bit. It drowns out my steam engine that is waiting to leave(K-4 Bachmann)!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

I am a fan of Broadway Limited stuff, but I just ordered two of the EVO Scale Train units. Should be here mid week next week. Everyone I have talked with say they are superior to everything else in N scale. Sound, detail and performance. I have a very long hill in my train layout, and close to 3.5 degrees. These units are supposed accelerate on their own in this type of situation. I would like to pull longer trains and these may give me that opportunity. Anyone have any first hand knowledge.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

PoppetFlatsRR said:


> I am a fan of Broadway Limited stuff, but I just ordered two of the EVO Scale Train units. Should be here mid week next week. Everyone I have talked with say they are superior to everything else in N scale. Sound, detail and performance. I have a very long hill in my train layout, and close to 3.5 degrees. These units are supposed accelerate on their own in this type of situation. I would like to pull longer trains and these may give me that opportunity. Anyone have any first hand knowledge.


Check out this review,

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/stcgevo.html

I'm not sure what you mean by "supposed accelerate on there own?" They use a ESU sound decoder just like IM and Atlas. 
Two of them will pull about a 40 car train up my long 1% grade, but my 2 BLI AC6000 will pull over 50 cars. The best factory sound IMO is the new Atlas SD35, they got the best speaker configuration so far for n-scale.


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

With my Broadway Limited's they have the ability to slow the train down as it heads down the hill, which you can visibly see and hear. I am assuming that the ST has the ability to sense the incline and actaully accelerate to keep a steady pace? No idea but that is what a friend that has one says. 

I don't have any Atlas locomotives. Kato and BLI only. Had a few Intermountain, but took them back, nothing but trouble with them. Did just buy two Challengers and a BigBoy by Athearn, but really have not played with them much. Too good of deal to pass up. lol I am quite anxious to see these Scale Train units.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

PoppetFlatsRR said:


> With my Broadway Limited's they have the ability to slow the train down as it heads down the hill, which you can visibly see and hear. I am assuming that the ST has the ability to sense the incline and actaully accelerate to keep a steady pace? No idea but that is what a friend that has one says.
> 
> I don't have any Atlas locomotives. Kato and BLI only. Had a few Intermountain, but took them back, nothing but trouble with them. Did just buy two Challengers and a BigBoy by Athearn, but really have not played with them much. Too good of deal to pass up. lol I am quite anxious to see these Scale Train units.


I own 14 BLI locos and not one of those have the ability to accelerate on there own. They do however have BEMF that will increase the power to maintain the current speed. They also have the ability to increase and decrease the prime mover sound according to the load. I really like this feature.
The ESU decoder in the ST locos has BEMF but doesn't have the automatic sound ability, you can however do it manually. Its called Full Throttle and has, drive hold, run 8, coast, brake, and dynamic brake. 

I own lots of Intermountain locos and have never had a single problem with them, they also run great and have better slow speed capability, much better than a Kato.


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

those intermountain locos can i change the couplers to rapidos . i cant seen to find any photos of the bottom of them locos to see weather or not i can.


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

I didn't make myself clear, my BLI will not accelerate on their own, but will decelerate on their own, or maintain the speed, but engine sounds will go from full throttle sound to barely idling at the bottom of the hill. My friend who just got his GEVO says the locomotive will maintain the set speed on a climb without input from him. We both have wireless NCE set ups. Please bare in mind, this is my first train set in 60 some years. I don't really know anything about how, what or could be done, other than my limited time messing with them. 

We both joined a train club at the same time hoping to learn the basics, but the club was more arguing about things than teaching anything, so we have worked together to get things to work. Both of us are total beginners, and are so thankful for DCC. I could not have done the things my grandfather and uncle did, and I am sure a lot of you guys have set up.

As to Intermountain, they were very easy to work with, but we got a couple that spent more time going back and forth. Just decided to return them to the manufacturer. Nice people. I do have a two locos on order for their new engines, which should be close.


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