# Euro layout?



## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

Hi everyone, I read up on some of the threads, have a couple questions... I am looking to build a two to three line layout, with tunnels, a couple bridges, crossover if I can, couple turnouts with sidings. My son has Bachmann Thomas engines, I would like the ability to run DCC but also DC. Is it backwards compatible? Can I put turnouts connecting the lines to switch lines and still be able to run two trains at once? I would need either two or three controllers - one for each line, or a controller that can control multiple lines in DC, what should I get? I've only had experience with the regular old transformers. There is a kit from Woodland Scenics for an American layout, are there kits to help me build a Euro or UK layout? I get the ideas of scratch-building, but am nervous as I was 7 when I helped my dad (no longer with me) build my layout that was on top of my bunkbed.

All your ideas and help are welcome and appreciated, Thanks!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Hello and welcome. First of all, you're making things too hard here. DCC is generally not backwards compatible -- it uses a modified AC current and the track is always hot. That said, it's very easy to rig a DC and DCC controller through a switch so you can use either one to control your layout, just not at the same time. There is no need for separate lines unless you want them, but they can't interconnect. DCC actually controls the train, not the track voltage, so one DCC command station is all you need; each DC line would require it's own power pack if they are to be operated simultaneously (otherwise everything runs at the same speed -- stop one and stop them all). MRC makes dual DC power packs, if you only need 2.

Kits are fine, but expensive, and it's someone else's design, not yours. Woodland Scenics actually has 2-3 to choose from, or scenery kits to do your own work. There are also a couple of other makers of pre-fab layout parts to choose from. The chief differences between European and US layputs is the architechture and rolling stock. Terrain isn't really an isse, nor is track configuration. You could take one layout, swap out the structures and rolling stock, and make it a reasonable facsimile of the others. The only hard spots would be tunnels and bridges, which tend to have different appearances, although you could swap those out too.

Scratchbuilding structures should wait until you have a little modeling experience with kits, but scratchbuilding a layout isn't that hard. There are also lots of canned track plans you can use.

Hope that adds a little clarity for you. Feel free to post any more questions you may have; lots of free advice is available here (some of it actually helpful).


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Hello and welcome. First of all, you're making things too hard here. DCC is generally not backwards compatible -- it uses a modified AC current and the track is always hot. That said, it's very easy to rig a DC and DCC controller through a switch so you can use either one to control your layout, just not at the same time. There is no need for separate lines unless you want them, but they can't interconnect. DCC actually controls the train, not the track voltage, so one DCC command station is all you need; each DC line would require it's own power pack if they are to be operated simultaneously (otherwise everything runs at the same speed -- stop one and stop them all). MRC makes dual DC power packs, if you only need 2.
> 
> Kits are fine, but expensive, and it's someone else's design, not yours. Woodland Scenics actually has 2-3 to choose from, or scenery kits to do your own work. There are also a couple of other makers of pre-fab layout parts to choose from. The chief differences between European and US layputs is the architechture and rolling stock. Terrain isn't really an isse, nor is track configuration. You could take one layout, swap out the structures and rolling stock, and make it a reasonable facsimile of the others. The only hard spots would be tunnels and bridges, which tend to have different appearances, although you could swap those out too.
> 
> ...


So, if I had DC trains, I would have to use some switch and two DC controllers and either one or two dcc controllers. Is there any way to switch tracks without the current jumping on the other track unless the turnout was thrown to connect them? And a dcc controller cannot power a DC loco, but a dcc loco can run on reg DC track... That is a bummer!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DC current is just that. DCC is a modified waveform AC system. 

You can't have the two systems connected to the same track at the same time. In DC, each contoller could power an unlimited number of tracks, but everything on each of those tracks would go the same speed. Or you can set it up to have multiple controllers, but you have to separate the track(s) into blocks, and each block needs it's own controller. Everything in the same block runs at the same speed. A DCC loco will run on DC power, but at the risk of burning up the decoder.

in DCC, no blocks are necessary. AC power is continuously supplied to the rails, and each loco takes what it needs based on the commands it is given. Commands to each engine go through the rails to the loco, where a decoder interprets those instructions and provides rectified DC power to the motor to run the train. You never need more than one DCC command station, although you may need an amperage booster if you have enough locos running at once. Each loco requires its own, seperately installed decoder. A few DCC systems will allow you to run a single DC loco, but they don't run all that well.

There are many ways you can set up a system to allow you to use different inputs on different areas of track at different times, and power routing turnouts that only send power in the direction the points are thrown, but you can't ever have a DCC loco and a DC loco on the same track at the same timw, except as I noted above. When a DCC and DC power supply are connected to the same track at the same time, you have to be very careful that they are not both powering the track at the same time, or you will fry one or both controllers, and probably some locos as well.

Bummer? Maybe, but I don't think it's quite the issue you're making it out to be. Post a drawing of what you want to do and we can give you some ideas for how to wire it safely and still get most of what you want. If you weren't trying to run Thomas stuff, I'd tell you just to go DCC.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

To operate the layout the way you say you want, with ability to control
more than one loco at a time, you definitely want to go with DCC. The
Thomas locos can be upgraded with the installation of a DCC decoder in
each one. You would want a main DCC controller and a hand held.
That way you and your son could each control his own train, and even
move them from oval to oval without having to use the insulated
joiners and DPDT switches I suggested in another of your threads.

You could use the DC power pack to power your turnouts and other
accessories.

If you can use a TV remote you can use a DCC controller. You just
push a button to run a loco, then move the speed control. Only
that loco will move. Push another button and the other loco
will go, each at it's own direction and speed. 

There is nothing difficult about installing a decoder. It has 8 color
coded wires and comes with a very clear manual that tells you where
each wire goes. Some simply plug in, depending on the loco.

Where are you in Florida? You may be near one of our
members who could help you.


Don


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## Wolferz (Aug 20, 2015)

DonR said:


> To operate the layout the way you say you want, with ability to control
> more than one loco at a time, you definitely want to go with DCC. The
> Thomas locos can be upgraded with the installation of a DCC decoder in
> each one. You would want a main DCC controller and a hand held.
> ...


Don, What about older stuff, like Piko 98005 or the Mantua I have with vintage lighted coaches?

I live in Brooksville, little north of Tampa.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> There is nothing difficult about installing a decoder. It has 8 color
> coded wires and comes with a very clear manual that tells you where
> each wire goes. Some simply plug in, depending on the loco.
> 
> Don


The Bachmann Thomas equipment is not very conducive to decoder installation. I took a look under the hood of my son's and decided not to try.


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