# Need help with NCE Power Cab



## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

I have a brand new (purchased at end of November - used couple of times then put aside while I built my track) NCE Power Cab and I am having fits with it. 

I had the track installed and could not get the locos to run more than a 1/4" or so. Cleaned and cleaned and if I put the speed up high enough and sort of give them some pressure they will run. But for all intents and purposes I can't get a full circuit of my 9x9 space without stoppage for one reason or another.

I tried again this evening after some additional track work removing what I perceived may have been too severe of a grade in one spot and firming up the track in another - only to have the same issues. I have an Amtrak loco with sound and I get sound but when it starts to move it dies, then restarts.

The worst of the problem seems to be at start up when the loco is "building up steam" so to speak. However, even if they can get moving they rarely go more than 6" without stopping and stalling.

I got fed up and this evening disconnected the piece of track with the feeder wires on it (I haven't installed any more yet - wanted to resolve this first) and wiht just a 9" piece of track wired directly to the controller I get the same symptoms.

I check the wires and they appear to be good with an infnity ohm reading and 15.1 VAC on the wires and track.

It sure looks like it is shorting out but the lights on the PowerCab never go out.

I'm going to get another red wire for my Bachman EZ Command controller tomorrow and hook that up in place of the NCE and see if that will get them to run. I'm praying its not the cab since I really like the options this has over the Bachman set up.

I have three locos, 1: Bachman Santa Fe GP 38 that is stock, 2: Bachman FTA that has had an NCE quiet run decoder installed and was working - now only the headlight comes on and I"m afraid the up/down has done something to it and 3: Model Power FP7 with sound that runs as described above.

Anyone have any ideas or can offer any troubleshooting advice I haven't thought of?

Forgot to add that I reset to factory settings on the off chance I had "played" with something - no effect.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I'm not familiar with the NCE system but it looks like the short circuit detection sensitivity is set a little low for the locos you're running,so that the system sees the normal amperage draw of your locos as shorts and trips right away.Digitrax have such settings and I believe NCE does too.Just guessing..........


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

It sounds like if you can "put downward pressure on the engines and they work" there is only one problem that jumps out at me, Dirty track or most likely Dirty wheels and/or pickups.
What kind of track are you using? 
Cleaning the wheels on a engine in DCC is so important!
Use a paper towel wet with alcohol and try to run the engine keeping one set of wheels on the track and one set of wheels on the paper towel on the track.
Another thing might be the programming of the engines, I'm wondering if they are programed on a 14 step for use with the bachmann controller but they need to be programmed for 28 step on the NCE controller.


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## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

NIMT, thanks for the input, guess I'm having issues with how they could run a month or so ago and now not be able to run.

Let me try to describe it with "sound". I put my sound enabled loco on the track and select teh loco and move the wheel to indicator 1. The engine "starts" and the bell may start rining and it dies. Then without any ohter action within seconds it will "restart" and repeat. After a couple of cycles it takes about 15-30 seconds before I can get it to try again.

If I press the Incrrease option to jump the speed selectons by 10 - it may actually start moving before it dies and goes through the above cycle.

It I put some pression on the rear and sort of give it a push (not downward - more forward) it may or may not begin moving but it won't go very far before dying again.

I put the NCE into ampere mode and can see amps getting up to about .09 before it dies.

On my stock Bachman engine I get the low level rumble as the motor is engaging but the sequence is essentially the same.

I find it hard to believe that before I soldered my track and laid it all out I could get the locos to run around the track with no issues using the same cab. After putting it down for 30 days or so to do track install now i"m having horrendous issues.

So a newb question from a noob. How do I clean the loco wheels if I can not get them to turn. I need to take a short video showing this better as I'm not sure I'm describing it correctly.

Thanks, I'm feeling quite lost at this point.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I'd love to help you with the NCE system but can't,so I'll leave this to more proficient members of this forum.

However,I have a definite feeling that the NCE isn't the problem anyway and that a careful inspection of your trackwork is on order.OK,let me tell you what I'd do if I had your problem.

First,I'd set power to your tracks (no loco on it) and take voltage readings at every section of tracks between solder joints while putting some pressure on the track to see if you don't have power voids anywhere.Are your tracks firmly held down so that even the weight of a loco can't have them move even slightly.You could have "cold solder"joints that seem well contacting but aren't so even the slightest track movement opens the circuit.Loose rail joiners will have the same effect.

Having track feeders every three to six feet of track is also a good way to avoid this kind of problem.

If all joints are OK and power flows evenly around the layout and you still have the problem,I'd remove the command station and take resistance readings across the tracks to see if you don't have something shorting it occasionally,putting some pressure on the track every here and there.Command station are highly sensitive to shorts and you don't need a strong short to have a glitch.

Then,if it all fails,you have the quarter test.Create shorts along your trackwork and see how the command station reacts...it should be immediate.If it responds with a delay,you have a faulty track joint somewhere.

Since you had no problems before you soldered your track joints,it is pretty obvious to me that this is your problem.Finding it however can be difficult,creating a few gray hairs.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yep you gave me the answer I was looking for!
"Everything was fine till I soldered the track together"
Solder flux is great at cleaning up the track when you solder but the pits when it sticks to the wheels of the engine!
You need 90% or better alcohol, denatured alcohol, or Goo Gone...I'm thinking Goo Gone might be a better choice for you.
When I get one that is all gummed up I start with a tee shirt material soaked in cleaner , slide the engine back and forth on the rag till the black oxidation and gunk quits just falling off then put it on the tracks and spin the wheels slightly (set the controller to 1/2 to full throttle to get it to spin up... Repeat this till you can get it to just keep spinning then place the rag onto of the rails for the rest of the cleaning.
Now before you go and run that nice clean engine around the track clean the entire track thoroughly especially the solder joints!
Oh and just for good measure...Was it all working good before the solder with the same controller? Just double checking!
I might also suggest that you clean the wheels of your rolling stock that you ran on the track too!


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## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

Thanks I'll try that. I have been using goo gone but not int he quantities you suggested. I'll try that. And I "thought" I had htem clean but obviously not . Thanks for the response.

And yes, it was working with the same controller prior. That is what had me so "upset." Well, that and the fact I can't run trains . It worked. Got set down for construction and now won't work.

I'll give one a real good cleaning tonight and just work on it till I can get it to run. Guess its going to take more elbow grease to get that stuff off than I have put into it so far.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I use S-L-X Denatured Alcohol made by Kleen strip. I get it at Home Depot, It works great. It is high oil absorber and I would avoid any contact with the outside of the engine shell, I've had a problem of "sucking" the natural oils out of some Plastics turning them white. 
It does not hurt the delrin that they make the track / Loco / Engine / Freight trucks and wheels out of.
Make sure to clean the inside edge of the track too!


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## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

Just an update. Purchased some SLX from the box store today. After the better part of three hours I now have locos that can at least move on their own.

The GP is actually fully mobile. The Amtrack goes about 6" without stalling. That is from not even starting and idling.

After cleaning the wheels I an now see how bad they were, now that I know what I'm seeing. Went through a variety of techniques but it finally ended up being my fingers and q-tips one 8th inch at a time to get them to even move at all.

My hits off to you NIMT for the input and instruction. I was getting right depressed.

Brakeman Jake, thanks to you a well for the troubleshooting advice. Good information in there. While I didn't need it to get the locos moving, I did take it into consideration while doing some track cleaning. Actually found some places that I need to attend do that I might not have found without taking your input into consideration.

Now I truly see the value of having fellow modlers close.

Thanks again.


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