# Help with size of lay out



## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Okay so my room is 9'8" by 9'8". With two doors across from each other on the east and west wall next to the north wall. With a window in the east wall. With the doors the east and west walls leave me 6 foot of space. The east wall will have a 5' by 30" desk under the window. So I am thinking about setting up a track in the south west corner 6'x6' on the wall side. HO scale. How deep should I make the bench work. Also thinking about making the wall side a mountain range. With tunnels and cliff side track.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Are you thinking to make a table layout or a shelf around around the room with hinged bridges at doors? 

Telling us this will help out a little more


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Table lay out. In an L shape maybe U shaped.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Really the size is completely up to you. If you are using a 4x8 piece of plywood against a wall, it could be tough to get to the other side of the table. 

My layout is currently an L shape with a 1.5' gap between the table and wall to get to that side of the layout. The "L" is made out of 2 4x8 pieces of plywood.

This is what I was talking about in the first post...


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

The desk is staying. So 4x8 is out.








. Size of the room is a little off


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

How tall is the desk? If it's a standard 30", then just build the layout above it. If you're like most of us, you'll want it higher than that to spare your back.

A 4x8 is a very inefficient use of space anyway. I would make your layout in the shape of an E with an elongated middle arm. Alternatively, it could be a C with lobes at the end to turn the train around.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Another question; Can one of the two doors be blocked? If so you
have a wider choice of space utilitzation. 

You will want to go for the greatest ability to provide space for
as much track as possible. A train simply going round and round
soon becomes boring. You'll want to have several spur tracks and
yard tracks in addition to your continuous running. All of that
can happen depending on what the ultimate available space may be.

Decisions, decisions.

Don


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

I think I am just going to scrap the plan to use my ham shack and work on getting power out to my hobby shop. Then I can use a 24x14 building.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Okay so still going to go with the hobby shop for the track. Dedicating a space 14'x12~14' need go go out there and see which it will be. Thinking about doing an around the room type lay out with a peninsula or two toward the center. This will leave one side that I can get too from both sides and the other three against the walls. For the sides against the walls would 28"s be enough for 2 main lines with passing sidings and switching industries?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I haven't forgotten about you, although I confess that I made absolutely no progress over the holidays. What little hobby time I had I spent working on my own Christmas-themed diorama. 

I'm working on an E shaped layout with continuous running and some elevation changes. I'm using a base width of 24", and yes, what you're asking will work (although based on the scenario you sent me, I was thinking a single track main...).


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> I haven't forgotten about you, although I confess that I made absolutely no progress over the holidays. What little hobby time I had I spent working on my own Christmas-themed diorama.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm working on an E shaped layout with continuous running and some elevation changes. I'm using a base width of 24", and yes, what you're asking will work (although based on the scenario you sent me, I was thinking a single track main...).



Had another guy who sent me E shapes and as I was looking at it and considering that the spacing and reach issues were just bugging me. Maybe it was just the way he had it setup. 

I went ahead and took a few measurements and found that at 42 inch bench night I can comfortably reach 28 inches and not smash the front area.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

And no worries about how long it's taking. Still need to work on the hobby shop.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay so i have used SCARM to mock up the bench work. any one want to help me lay track on it? the open area on the bottom right is for one, maybe two swing out sections.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'll try to download those files at home and revise the track plan accordingly.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> I'll try to download those files at home and revise the track plan accordingly.



If you think my bench work plans suck let me know. But let me know why so I can learn.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

No joy on the SCARM file. Can you export it as a bitmap, jpeg, or other standard graphic format?

Just my personal opinion, though, is drawing benchwork before you know what is going to go on top of it is putting the cart before the horse. I always let my imagination go, then deal with the benchwork later. I find it easier to modify benchwork to suit the track plan than the other way around.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

the bench work with a very crude MS paint rendition of the the track work


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I sure like the benchwork design but it's 
hard to tell if the layout is doable without dimensions. Maybe CTvalley
can scale it out. You have two wyes which
will require reverse loop controllers if you are going DCC. Complex
wiring and switches if DC. Not sure if you can get a usable radius going
into them.

Not sure if the tail of either of the wyes is long enough to be able to
handle switching operations for that yard.

I do like the number and placement of the yards and industrial
sidings. They could make 

You'll want to provide isolated track sections either side of the
bridge that shut off power any time the 'bridge' is up.

Don


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

I like it but I agree with DonR. The use of two Wyes, could get tricky. 

I see two main lines, red and green, i love the red main line with the all the industries and sidings. But the green one is not loved as much, it will still look great always having a train running in the background, but maybe add some industry to the green line. 

I edited the picture about with an idea to get rid of one of Wyes. I added more industry and added to the yard. Though, I thinking the yard might be better at the top left of the picture. When all is said it is your layout, you do what you wanna do! We are just here for help and support!










btw sorry for the small pictures, I dont know why it does that


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Like i said it is very crude. the over all dimensions is 14'x14' I understand about the wiring issues with DC, though i am thinking its going to be easier then some of the stuff i work on at work.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Aminnich said:


> I like it but I agree with DonR. The use of two Wyes, could get tricky.
> 
> I see two main lines, red and green, i love the red main line with the all the industries and sidings. But the green one is not loved as much, it will still look great always having a train running in the background, but maybe add some industry to the green line.
> 
> ...


I like to put the pictures in photobucket and embed them with img tags 

I not a big fan of large classification yards but i do like how it fits on that section of the layout and the industrial area you created in the spot i had the yard.



Thanks all for the input.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Are we right to be assuming this will be an HO layout?

Will you use DCC or DC?

Don


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

yes its an HO scale layout, and I will be using DC


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay so i have finally made a layout with SCARM what do you guys think.










if you want to look at in SCARM let me know and i can send the file to you


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

A shame to limit what you can do operationnally by staying with DC. Just the wye will require you to flip a couple
of switches each time you use it. You'll need 2 or more power
packs and a passel of DPDT panel switches with miles of wire to
make that layout operational as DC.

As DCC it would all be very simple. One pair of wires from
the controller to a buss that would be connected to track drops
around the layout. No isolated sections (except the wye)
and no line of panel switches. The Wye would be automatically
controlled by a reverse loop controller. And you could have two (or more)
trains continuous running while using a 3rd in a switching operation,
all with one controller that is as easy to use as a TV remote.

When you get through adding up the costs of what you would
need you are going to be pretty close to what it would cost to
have a quality DCC system.

Don


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

Try to avoid "S" track. There is one on the right side on main line after the first turnout.

Also, on the left side in the middle, where there is turnout on way in "South" direction, remove the last turnout since it will not handle longer line of rolling stocks, unless you move that first "Southbound" turnout northward, to allow longer track on the last turnout on South end. 

I would like to have your copy of SCARM file.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Looks good, i mean you still have both Wyes but that your choice. My only other concern is that the tracks in the yard are not very long at all, you might want to move it to an area that your can have less tracks, but they can be longer.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

took out the S curve


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

The yard tracks are kind of short -- not much room for more than a couple of cars on each.

One suggestion would be to eliminate the wye at the top (and its peninsula). Then lengthen the other peninsula to give you longer yard tracks. This has the added advantage of having only one reversing section (instead of two). That will reduce some of the wiring complexity.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Well I am not a huge fan of large classification yards. But I will give it a thought.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

It looks like the longs yard track is 2'. Just to give you an example, my longest yard track is 8' and holds 13 cars (9 boxcars 4 coal cars) comfortably. That's 1.6 per foot of track, which means you could hold about 3 cars in the longest yard track.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

How many cars a track will hold depends on many factors. 40' boxcars in HO are less than 6" long, so fit two to a foot, 80' auto racks are almost a foot long.

The turnout will also limit the number of cars, because the area near the turnout needs to be clear to avoid cars on adjacent tracks hitting. The frog number of the turnout is important here -- higher #, more space needed.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

All the turn outs on this setup at #4 atlas remote turnouts


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Aminnich said:


> Looks good, i mean you still have both Wyes but that your choice. My only other concern is that the tracks in the yard are not very long at all, you might want to move it to an area that your can have less tracks, but they can be longer.


okay made this change


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

16 turnouts from start of yard to end could get very expensive. 

The yard itself looks. Very mine bottling, but it looks like you can fit a bunch of cars in there. I also think that a engine door engine house would be perfect for the 2 tracks from down in the middle of the yard.

Again it is your layout, you do what you want, but that what jumped out at me when I first saw it.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay another change


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Can you post the scarm file? Im not the best with it, but I want to see if I can figure something out


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay made a few changes to the yard on the top of the layout, mostly a change to a few of the switches. need to fix the layers still for that change.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

It keeps getting better. I like the removal of the Y's and making the yard longer. Just seems easier and more useful!


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay so Aminnich showed me a corner yard, he modeled in SCARM and sent me a picture I then modeled it and decided i didn't care much for the look.








i took it out and fixed the turn then colored the track for the diffrent phases of building the layout


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## Blk69 (Feb 23, 2010)

Just wanted to add a quick thought. Your posting did not list how much experience you have in the hobby or building layouts. What you are proposing is great but will be a big undertacking. It is much easier to start with a smaller layout and than add on as time permits. Suggest you try to have a modular layout that is built in phases. Good thing about this plan is time between the phases is only dependent on your schedule. You can be up and running quickly. From the looks of your plan you will have a awesome layout. My time like yours is limited and building in phases allows me to keep an interest in the hobby. Just my thoughts. Keep us updated on what you decide and your progress.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I like everything about the last revised layout except for taking
out the WYE or reverse loop. With the single track main and it's
passing sidings and the array of industrial sidings and yards it
seems a shame to be unable to turn a loco around.

With that layout powered by a DCC system you can run one train
clockwise, another counter clockwise at the same time. That
makes for interesting operations. Something to do while the
trains go around.

The possible switching operations on this layout are supurb. 

We'll look forward to seeing it built.

Don


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

DonR said:


> I like everything about the last revised layout except for taking
> out the WYE or reverse loop. With the single track main and it's
> passing sidings and the array of industrial sidings and yards it
> seems a shame to be unable to turn a loco around.


You could add back in the wye at the entrance to the yard with minimal track changes.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

I took a quick measurement of the room it's going in. And I think in the bottom left of the layout I can add in a turntable. I may also end up redesigning the whole thing. I don't know I still need to clear out the building its going in and run proper power out to it. Then rewire and dry wall the building.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay changed it up allot.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Have you checked the radius of your curves?

The purple curved lead into the yard seems pretty tight.

Also, the tail on that switch back in green upper center seems short. That
would limit the number of cars that can be pushed into the left spur it
connects to.

With a nice big layout like that you don't want curves less than
22 or even better, so you can run the larger diesels and big
steamers.

I like that you added the reverse loop so you can turn your
locos around.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Since you seem to have some room, consider a roundhouse with your turntable. They are often found together.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

well the current version doesn't have a reverse loop, just a turn table.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Check the lower green switchback that seems to connect to a
purple yard track. A loco could be turned around going through there,
thus a reverse loop.

Don


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

DonR said:


> Check the lower green switchback that seems to connect to a
> purple yard track. A loco could be turned around going through there,
> thus a reverse loop.
> 
> Don


It looks to me in the diagram that they are not connected. But it would be easy to make the connection. Then you could turn a whole train around -- if that is what Redmann88 wants.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay looked at it and modified the track for the small loop around.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

This is a very interesting and unusual layout.

I would like to have some of the different switching
operation possibilities that I see. The green switchback
set of spurs at the top, the very unusual switchbacks
and run around in the blue area on the right are
very nice.

And much of the switching can be in session while another
train is in continuous running.

Looking forward to see it actually running.

Don


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

so would i. i just need to get the time and money together to get everything done.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

redman88 said:


> so would i. i just need to get the time and money together to get everything done.


Welcome to pretty much everyone else's world!


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Yeah. 5 kids a 2week on 1 week off job 10-17 hour work days. Lots of time to plan no time to do anything.


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

Been following this thread. What is the current perimeter of that layout? It is looking a bit larger than original layout shown on this thread. 

Like everyone recommended to use 22 or longer radii. On the top of the layout, I am not sure what is the purpose of that area. Is it for moving the locomotives in the area? There is not much room for maybe more than 1 or two rolling stocks. It would be more difficult to move them into that area. 

The image shows suggested changes of the layout that might work well, including the reverse loop in green area. On this layout, it has mix of Atlas HO-100 and Peco 00-100 turnouts.










On right side area, there might need some works to be done.

Sorry that turntable wasn't included in the suggested layout.


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