# Not to familiar with MTH, could someone explain PS1, 2 & 3?



## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Everything I own comes in orange boxes with the exception of two...

PS1 - I know never to run something bought without a new battery or BCR? MTH's first entry into sound. I do have a DRG Alco AA that I run strictly off a Z-1000. As I understand it PS1 really likes MTH power and does not play well with the Lionel CW-80.

I assume PS2 & 3 are improvements. I know it's more than that, so that's what I'm asking about.

I spotted a MTH GE EVO with PS3 for sale, but don't like buying stuff I don't know anything about.

Thanks.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

Jeff T said:


> Everything I own comes in orange boxes with the exception of two...
> 
> PS1 - I know never to run something bought without a new battery or BCR? MTH's first entry into sound. I do have a DRG Alco AA that I run strictly off a Z-1000. As I understand it PS1 really likes MTH power and does not play well with the Lionel CW-80.
> 
> ...


PS-1 is mainly a sound system with remote control uncoupling, NO command control for speed or anything else, uses an 8.4 volt battery.
PS-2 is a command control system that uses the MTH DCS base for command control of the engines; it has sound and remote control uncoupling on the engine, uses a battery.
PS-3 is a command control system that uses the DCS base but don't use a battery like PS-2, has sounds and remote uncoupling in the engine. The PS-3 engine has a switch inside it for either DCS or DCC.

PS-2 or PS-3 can be run in conventional mode as well. MTH command control systems work with the MTH DCS base, can be used with TMCC or Legacy if you have both the TMCC & DCS bases hooked together.

FYI; MTH PS-2 & PS-3 engines will do great using any transformer besides the CW-80.

Lee Fritz


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

If you want to go with the MTH PS-3 engines and have command control it would be worth it to have a newer DCS base as it will have PS-3 compatibility. If not you can upgrade the DCS base to 4.2 or newer for PS-3 engines to work with.

I had my DCS base upgraded to 4.2 version at Ready To Roll in Miami FL. I tried to upgrade it myself and failed at it so I took it to the experts in Miami.

Lee Fritz


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee, the current version of the DCS TIU & remote software is 5.0.


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## 9daytonas (Dec 15, 2015)

Sorry if this is long, but I wish I had asked this very question last year when I decided to get back into trains for my (then) 1-year old daughter.

In short, if you can afford it, go with PS3 only.

I've learned the hard way:

1) PS1, is _*conventional control only*_ and was phased out about 14 years ago when PS2 was released. Anything PS1 is going to be old-school, both in terms of sound sets and fine detail. Even if you purchase something new-old stock, unopened/never run, it will be somewhere between 15-20 years old. The board will likely be fussy or fragile at that point. Older, first generation boards are very fussy and can be electronically scrambled if the 8.4V battery isn't charged inside the shell properly. Second generation PS1 (~'98 on) are less fussy. If you do buy a PS1 unit, immediately and WITHOUT QUESTION, install a BCR (Battery Component Replacement). For a mint condition, new/old stock PS1 Premier Diesel (note: PS1 Rail King are NOT scale), I would not invest more than $100 per unit. Because of the lack of detail, the inevitable electrical issues and non-prototypical sound sets, I would simply pass on PS1 altogether. I have one PS1 unit and it has spent more time with GunrunnerJohn awaiting servicing than it has with me. It has never worked correctly and it was new in box (NIB) when purchased last year. PS1 replacement electronics/parts are no longer readily available. I have only the one PS1 unit - a Premier NS SD60. I have spent a lot of time painting and detailing it to help it look the part, but as mentioned above, it is currently not in my possession and hopefully GRJ can exorcise its demons, otherwise it will be converted into a dummy unit.

2) PS2 is a dramatic improvement, both in sound and detail, while also adding Command Control with MTH's proprietary DCS system. They can also be run in conventional mode for less complex or lower budget layouts. There are 3v and 5v versions of PS2 and BCR use is recommended for these boards as well. There are some complaints about low signal decoding and reception issues on larger layouts with DCS and PS2 locos, but all in all, a later-gen PS2 loco is visually identical in most aspects to a current PS3 unit. The later generation sound sets are a massive improvement and the fine detail on the Premier line is very impressive. Rail King scale models (seemingly old Premier castings) are a nice combination of PS2 function with good looks for the dollar. As the PS3 upgrade boards have been released, I do not believe there are anymore brand new PS2 boards available from MTH. A nice, late-gen PS2 Premier Diesel can be had for around $175 used, give or take. I do not own any PS2 models because...

3) PS3 is where it's at... The detail on the Premier models are amazing and the sound sets are impressive. The RailKing Scale models do not look out of place and hold their own in a consist with anything costing quite a bit more. The functions have been refined and a few more electronic tidbits have been added as well. I have a Premier NS SD80MAC and it is a sight to behold. Just gorgeous and the sound is amazing. I also have Rail King Scale Conrail SD60 and Scale Alco C630 units with PS3. The sound, smoke and operation are just as good as the SD80MAC, they just lack a little bit of the fine details. I operate conventional on our Xmas layout now, but will be adding DCS for next year's layout. The PS3 units aren't cheap, but there are many retailers that have specials and discounts on remaining inventory. I got the Alco on special from Trainworld for $216 brand new - with warranty. Best money I may have spent because it is gorgeous and sounds amazing.

The bigger question you need to ask yourself is this: new or used?

If you hunt, you can find the deal, and sometimes the joy is in the hunt. I did buy the SD80MAC used, but it was built in July '15 and was NIB, so I felt comfortable buying it (also got it for $190 behind list). The other two PS3 units are brand new, though both were built in '14. Where possible, I strongly advocate buying new. If you do buy used, I would test the unit first or buy ONLY from someone on these forums that has a great reputation and can be trusted.

The electronics in O-scale locos are more complex than I expected or could have imagined compared to 25-30 years ago during my days in the HO world. I have also added ERR/TMCC electronics to a K-Line Scale locomotive with failed electronics and have four other conventional locos that I am considering selling to go exclusively to PS3 and DCS.

I hope that helps. Best of luck, and if you want to speak directly, PM me and I will be happy to share what I have learned over the past year getting back into trains, and specifically, O-scale and MTH.

Steve


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I run locos only conventionally, always set the select switch to "RUN", so I have a very simple view of this:
PS1: stay away from it if possible or replace the electronics with something else, or let it sit on the shelf as just display. 
PS2: nice, has okay cruise control that works even in conventional, so-so sound compared to today's best, but . . .
PS3: nicer still, better cruise, better sound, run very well in conventional. 

Never had any problems with any of them running fine on Lionel transformers.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The only thing I would add is to avoid PS3 steamers. The MTH wireless drawbar is a bad design and has been known to come loose. On some steamers, when the drawbar comes loose, the exposed drawbar can contact the trailing truck and fry the electronics.

If you want an MTH steamer, look for a low mileage PS2 from a reputable source.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

When I'm looking for engines my checklist is different depending on steamer or diesel when looking at auction sites.

1. If I'm looking for a steamer I go PS2 every time and make sure it's from about 2005 on. You do not want the older ps2 5v boards and I believe they moved to 3v in the 2004-2005 range. I have had very good luck with the 3v steamers that I have purchased.

2. I don't go PS3 on steamers because of the wireless drawbar. I've played with a few engines with them and I've read to many stories about them to even go that route. If they fix the drawbar then I'll start looking at ps3 but not until then

3. For diesel engines I'll look for anything newer than 2005 in either PS2 or PS3. 

I don't have a large layout with large curves so I have to stick to the railking line and this is where I've landed and I've been very happy.

I have a few ps1 steamers and I don't really enjoy them much. They work well conventionally with poor slow speed handling. I've had to turn the sounds completely off because they are annoying to me. I've never been able to program the chuff properly so that it sounds good. Smoke is ok but runs constantly with no puffing on the steamers. 

In general I refuse to buy anything without cruise now. Learning was part of the fun and I'm glad I didn't pay too much for those PS1 engines.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Daytonas: So you got back into trains last year for your (then) one year old daughter, or was it really for you?


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## yamawho (Apr 20, 2016)

I went to DCS about three years ago and have 4 PS3 engines. In Canada a Premier diesel engine is now over 600$ with RK being about 460$. This made me look at older PS2 engines and started with new in box Aerotrain from 2004. All seemed to go well with this so I when I saw this FA-2 ABA Diesel Engine Set from 2000 in CN green paint I decided to buy it since it did not have much millage. This set has two motors in both A units compared with a later PS3 set which only has motors in one A unit.
http://mthtrains.com/20-2243-1

I did change the battery which was the white one and have not had any issues with it. I just want to add that I purchased these at a LHS and although the price was high it was still over 300$ less than a current PS3 set with only two motors.

I do find the sound on PS2 to be a little garbled compared to PS3 but it is acceptable. 

I also added a PS2 PCC trolley recently and really like operating it in auto mode. This makes me want to get a subway set


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Thank you guys for the incredible amount of knowledge shared! Sometimes you can read and read but an explanation in laymans terms is so much better.

I only run my trains at Christmas and I was really against buying the Legacy system until I bought my first Legacy engine. When you only run a short time each year it's hard to remember the nuances of all the systems and what they bring to the table.

Thanks Again and Merry Christmas!!


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

If you run trains only at the holiday season you may want to ask yourself is it worth it to buy the command control system for the trains you have or just run in conventional.
However you won't get all the control features in conventional mode, and may require more transformer buttons to be pushed for uncoupling in conventional mode.

Lee Fritz


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Lee, the current version of the DCS TIU & remote software is 5.0.


Thank you John. I wasn't sure of the latest version of MTH software.

Lee Fritz


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

I have 12 MTH PS2 engines. 7 steamers and 5 diesels. With all of these engine I took out all the white batteries and replaced them with BCRs. This way I will never have to worry about a dead battery that might screw up a PS2 board. I had that happen to me on my Erie Triplex and had to pay for new boards. I have no problems with these engine except a NYC Hudson with the wireless drawbar. It comes loose after about an hour of run time. Other then that all is ok. I run them with DCS in 3.10 version. I didn't do the upgrade to 5.0. Happy with this version and don't know how to do the upgrade.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

phillyreading said:


> If you run trains only at the holiday season you may want to ask yourself is it worth it to buy the command control system for the trains you have or just run in conventional.
> However you won't get all the control features in conventional mode, and may require more transformer buttons to be pushed for uncoupling in conventional mode.
> 
> Lee Fritz


Lee - That's one of the reasons I'm almost all Lionel!


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## 9daytonas (Dec 15, 2015)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Daytonas: So you got back into trains last year for your (then) one year old daughter, or was it really for you?


well... um, you see...


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## Steph3dfx (Dec 4, 2012)

In December 2012 I bought a like new PS1 MTH NYC Hudson steamer 5405 (30-1121-1).
It's beautiful, run smoothly, sounds are adequate and for 87$ it was a hell of a deal and since I run in conventional mode I don't mind all the bells and whistle of the newer models.
I replaced the battery upon reception in 2012, reset the operation settings and adjust to my liking the different options available.

After reading this thread, BCR was mention a few time.
If I understand correctly I could replace the 2012 battery I bought with this module and no more battery management for my loco , correct ?


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Steph3dfx said:


> After reading this thread, BCR was mention a few time.
> If I understand correctly I could replace the 2012 battery I bought with this module and no more battery management for my loco , correct ?


That is what I understand.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Correct, the BCR replaces the existing rechargeable battery and should last as long as you do.


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## Steph3dfx (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks, that is great alternative since I want to keep my PS1 steamer.
I just bought one 9v replacement BCR online, a good timing since I was worried about the already 4 years old battery.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

Jeff T said:


> Lee - That's one of the reasons I'm almost all Lionel!


Jeff, I am more into MTH trains lately. I have had more success with MTH engines:appl: then with Lionel engines:smilie_daumenneg: in the past 15 years.
I can get Williams at better prices then most other brands.

Lee Fritz


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