# Gulf Summit Susquehanna Valley layout



## Zbuilder

Hi everyone. Newbie here. Name is Rich and I've recently started working on an N layout my dad started when I was about 3. I'm 46 now. I took my 3 year old nephew to see some model train layouts and i got hooked again. My dad's layout is the Gulf Summit Susquehanna Valley in N scale. There is something going on that I believe is a problem with the original plans in the book nine N Scale by Atlas, ca. 1970. I'll detail it now. Thus is a DC layout.

#1 - At the top level of plan N-109 ( the big one), I can see C2 (common power) but I can't see where there is a common to the other top track as there is an insulator at R1/R2 and switch 25/26.

#2 - there is a short using the atlas controller when switched with the Cab a or B reversing switches.

The lower tracks, Susquehanna Valley, works. The top, Gulf Summit, does not.


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## Big Ed

I don't know if you know how to post pictures here is a thread on it,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2595

A copy and paste,
What I do to post a picture,
1,When your typing your thread, look up top & click on the paper clip.

2,That opens a box then click browse.

3,That will open another box find your picture where ever it is in your computer. (say downloads,camera,files wherever your picture is.)
When you find the picture click on it then click open, it will then be in your box where you clicked browse. 

4, Then click upload, wait to make sure it uploads.

5, After it uploads go back to your post box where you are typing and click the paper clip again and click insert attachments.
MAKE SURE YOU GO BACK A SECOND TIME AND CLICK IT.
Your picture should be in the thread.


Note, if the picture won't upload most likely it is too big.

If you can't see a paper clip you have to change something in your CP, an easy fix.
Let me know if you can't see the paper clip.
__________________


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## Zbuilder

Ok here goes... I'm doing this right now on the iPad so it may or may not work...


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## Zbuilder




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## Zbuilder




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## Big Ed

Well the pictures work. 

Now if someone can figure out the problem, where is rogruth now?
I guess he is stuck in the welcome forum and can't get out. 

Maybe the best thing to do is start all over on the wiring?
Or is most of it done?
Or I would guess it will be a process of elimination. 
Let the thread sit a little, an electrical guru should be along to help.

I got to get up super early tomorrow so I am almost off to Z land soon.
I will go back and look again before I go. :dunno:


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## Zbuilder

The layout was built 40 years ago. It worked too. We used the atlas analog DC cabs. But now I am using home built DC digital pulsed cabs my uncle built. I'm guessing the digital cabs are less fogiving of the short I will explain.

Track connection C2 is an electrical common connection but how does the other track get it's common connection? On the track without a common, only the rail that goes to the Atlas Selectors get power but there is no power to the other rail that should be common as far as I understand it. Also, at the left loop, inside track, there is an insulator on the rail (the only insulator on those rails) but shouldn't the insulator be on the other rail because going with the plans, track sections (blocks?) 25 and 27 are connected allowing a short between Cab C and Cab D with the atlas selector.

Some more info... When I do connect Cab C and Cab D I get a short. I seems like the Atlas Controller #220 shares the common C terminal with both cabs but when Cab C or Cab D is reversed, ZAP... that causes the short. How is this Controller supposed to work? Is mine faulty?


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## Big Ed

If anything I gave this a bump to the top of the list again.
You lost me here, DC digital pulsed cabs my uncle built.



I thought someone would say something....anything by now.

WHERE ARE ALL THE ELECTRICAL GURUS? :dunno:


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## Zbuilder

Yeah. My uncle is pretty good at electronics. He even built a 3 axis stepping motor controller programmable with a Commodore 64. Wrote a simple GUI program in Assembly language to control it. That was when i was into making small films and wanted to go into special effects and needed a cheap motion control for my camera. But yeah, he built us a 4 Cab pulsed DC control. It's not like the programmable DCC's that are out there but it does produce a clean 16 volt square wave pulse at all times. I have to put it in a case. It' been like this for about 25 years... unused mostly.


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## Zbuilder

Here are a few pics of the layout. Needs work as you can see.


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## Zbuilder

I'm doing this from the iPad and it doesn't want to do more than 1 pic per post. Any other pics always replace the previous. Anyway, here is the side view...


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## Zbuilder

I'm doing this from the iPad and it doesn't want to do more than 1 pic per post. Any other pics always replace the previous. Anyway, here is the side view...
View attachment 32968


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## Big Ed

Nice layout.

I wish someone would try to help you out. 
All the electrical questions might as well be in Greek for me. :dunno:

THERE MUST BE SOMEONE HERE WHO CAN HELP?

Can you see my typing?


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## Zbuilder

Don't let the home made pulsed cabs scare anyone. When i plug in the old fashioned cabs, there is still a short. The short exists without the cabs hooked up.


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## Big Ed

Zbuilder said:


> Don't let the home made pulsed cabs scare anyone. When i plug in the old fashioned cabs, there is still a short. The short exists without the cabs hooked up.


I was going to say try switching back to the old ones.

I will just keep bumping this, maybe the right member will come along with suggestions.:dunno:

I guess you double checked all the wiring?


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## DT&I

that is a nice layout.
electrical stuff is all greek to me though


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## Big Ed

Z I sent rogruth a PM with a link to the thread, he says his Father has the layout maybe he can help.


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## rogruth

I'm sorry I can't be of any real help.My layout is three rail O gauge.

I asked questions about this layout hoping that there would be some clarification and there has been.Your first posts did not,IMHO,have enough info to get someone to help you.Now maybe someone that models N scale or HO will respond with some useful answers.


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## Zbuilder

Are there any more details i am leaving out? I'll do the best i can to get more details. I don't mind crawling underneath.


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## Ironrogue

As we look at the upper level plan layout:
The feeders are C2 and Block 22
The requirement is to include a split of C2 opposite Block 21 in the other (outer right) loop
It is important to note that the feeders for R1 and R2 are for the reversing loop
Note the dual insulators just to the right of the R1, R2 feeders (switch 28)
Dual insulators exist also at switch 27 (just the one leg shown), as well as both legs of switch 26
This defines the reverse loop as left of switch 28, thru the R1, R2 arc, around the loop to switch 26
Traversing the Switch 26,25 crossover completes the reversal
If you are unfamiliar with the requirements necessary for the correct functioning of the reverse loop, the
internet is your best friend, although, that information is also included in the Atlas book that you have.

Many years ago i was given a gift of railroad N-107 as a plywood pike wired for DC. What would still be considered a long time ago ago, I built the N-109 layout and joined the two via a small yard with a turntable and have since wired it with DCC. It is just relatively recently that I have begun scenicking this empire with my eight year old daughter. The revisit is awesome and I am truly excited to hear of another modeller with a similar layout from the same book (Priced at $2!). I sure hope that the information I am offering can be of help to you and look forward to hearing if a solution has been provided!

Best of luck!!


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## Zbuilder

Ok I understand almost everything you said except about the split from C2 to block 21. Do you mean jump the same wire to go to both tracks?
I'd like to see some pics of your layout. I need some scenicking ideas.


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## Ironrogue

Yes. Providing a jumper from the C2 wire to the other loop will give create the common rail for all trackage of the upper level minus the reverse loop. As indicated be sure to drop the feeder from the rail opposite the rail that is connected to block power (21, i think it was). My scenicking skills are definitely in the beginner stage but I am scouring books and photos and internet sites for ideas. I have included a photo of where I currently am in the process...looong way to go....


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