# First Post - Complete Rookie



## RookieHudson (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm completely new here and entirely to model trains. I don't count my brief childhood. I'll give a little background. I'm 37, happily married have a 5 y/o daughter and 2 y/o son. My father in law has American Flyer (Royal Blue) from his childhood. This past Christmas my wife and I decided a train around a tree would be great for the 2 kids. So after some research decided to stay with S with the reasoning my FIL has S as well andmight be combined someday. So I bought the American Flyer Christmas Kit (which I do believe Lionel makes). Well that little red engine lighted a spark in me. And as much as I liked the little red engine fly around I had to go old school and get something American.. So $224 later I bought 1956 Hudson 326 that I absolutely love. Now that I've jumped head first I've been researching like crazy on how to do things "correctly" Currently I don't find myself being a perfectionist. 
I'm in the very beginning process of building my first lay out. I really don't know what I'm doing but I'm having fun learning! My wife already thinks I'm bonkers.. I want to do a layout that looks like two opposite L's looking at each other, kinda a long more narrow middle then loops around each ends. I feel a square look loop would burn me out after awhile. I want to be able to run at least 2 trains at the same time potentially 3 down the road. So I want to plan for the future. Also there is a high probability we are going to move in the spring so I'll have to be able to break down my layout can't be too permanent (will be in the basement). 

One thing that is bending my brain is the turns for my lay out.. I have the available track that came with the christmas kit, today bought some fas-track (i'd like to go all fast -track) also bought 2 adapters to connect the old style track w/ the fas track. The guy at the store was telling me my turns has to be 40 degrees. Is this true? I'm envisioning my next engine to be a Northern 4-8-4 style. Want to be able to run the hudson and the "future engine" at the same time. I know the 4-8-4 will need some ground to turn. I was looking at some layouts and it looked like some of the turns are pretty tight at least more than 40. Can I hook fast track to gargraves? I like the idea of a long flexible section? Again I am a completely new at all of this. When I was a child we had a very simple HO set which my little brother totally destroyed.. bout killed him. So please excuse my ignorance I've learned a lot already this past week as this has been the most research I've done to date. I look fwd to getting to know you all

Thanks


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## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

RookieHudson,
Welcome to the forum and S gauge trains, you will find lots of help here, and you will have lots of questions. This I know from experience.

I am no expert, but I would suggest not mixing a lot of different track brands. The fast track will be easily available and as you already now you can use adaptors to connect with old flyer track. The old flyer track is available all over eBay, and there is a fair amount of reproduction flyer track out there, but I think it is just what is in inventory.

As for turns, the old Flyer track was about a 21" radius, 42" diameter track loop. I think fast track comes in the same size and also a 27" radius 54" diameter. The later will obviously not fit on a standard 4X8 plywood platform. Also important to mention that the Hudsons and the Northerns all run time on the old 21" radius track, and in fact I have a couple of the new Lionel Flyer Legacy locomotives and they run fine on the 21" radius curves.

I will make a suggestion about benchwork for your layout, given that you want to make it expandable, and you may have to move it in the not to distant future, take a look at Mianne Benchwork, link to web site is below.
http://www.miannebenchwork.com

Good luck and keep us in the loop.
Aflyer


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

RookieHudson: I agree with what Aflyer had to say. Try not to mix-match track;just don't
look correct. Try to plan a layout based on the standard plywood sheets of 8 X 4' if possible.
I like Fastrak and MTH S-Trax. Both are almost identical and can be hooked up together with
a little work. Since Fastrak is made by Lionel we can be assume it will be around for a long time and they will continue to come out with some neat accessorys like the "built in gates" now available. Both the tracks above have a superior connection of the sections of the track.
You will find there is little loss of electricity compared to others like the old A/F track. Also
the switches are so much realistic. See my little layout I'm working on now on another
thread. Larry P.S. Welcome to the forum and good luck.


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## RookieHudson (Jan 12, 2014)

Roger on the non mixing of track. I was chewing on the idea of using the fast track I just purchased for around the Christmas tree and maybe gargraves for my layout. 

If you guys were in my shoes starting from scratch which track would you use? I really appreciate the help. I was reading and looking at different tracks brands late last night. I'd rather buy higher quality with the most options one time than cheap needing lots of TLC


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

Take a look at http://hogrr.blogspot.com/ this may be a solution to having larger turns and some modularity. I'm sure the kids factor into building this, as did mine. I suggest the height be comfortable for you to work on and operate and to build stool(s) the necessary height for the kids. Stool height can vary over the years very easily.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Welcome to the world of S gauge ......if you look at my latest post in the layout forum you will see just how much room a standard curve takes up when using the original S gauge 4 tie tracks...just under 4' ....it does take up alot of space but i like using the original to go with the steamers i have.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Welcome to the forum Rookie -- If its help you seek, you came to the right place. Many members here are happy to pass along their experiences so that we all learn from each other.

First thing to check are the "Sticky" posts as they are called. These are located right at the top of this S-Scale Forum. They offer tips and other info that were found to be helpful for everyone who visits here.

The guys above were essentially correct, albeit slightly off about the dimensions -- the original 2-rail Flyer track is 20" radius (to centerline I believe), very close to what they stated. I'm not sure where your store guy came up with 40 degrees?? I'm going to guess he probably meant to say 40" diameter, which would be correct for a complete 180 degree turn. Therefore a 4' wide tabletop is pretty crowded. So anything bigger if at all possible will be better for you.

Getting the kids involved is one of the most rewarding aspects about this hobby. It keeps them from instant gratification with video games and the like, and at the same time, stimulates their thinking and creativity...as well as your own. Yes, all our wives think we're bonkers. But they realize we can do no harm to ourselves (well, not too much) and they leave us alone. Although even low voltages can cause fires, so be careful.

Mixing the track is probably not such a good plan. I model my Flyers in the original track. Had I known at the time about the newer products, I might have chosen to purchase huge quantities. But as it is, I have a very large inventory of original track and to change over now would be impractical. But it is my understanding that the new track today is very reliable. So whichever you choose, I'd stick with it.

Here is an item that may interest you, SCARM is a softward CAD program that can be used to design your layout. It is relatively easy to use and seems quite accurate. It is available for free download -- just Google SCARM to find it. It contains many libraries but alas only two for American Flyer track -- the original in the American Flyer library and the later offering by Lionel which is found under the Lionel library in that application. Both are no longer produced but can be found on eBay or local train shows/flea markets. I am not sure if this program can be used to design a layout for today's track offerings. But it may work, you would have to check.

One final item -- check this website...

http://www.thegilbertgallery.org/

You'll spend a lot of time reviewing all the great items the original AC Gilbert Company produced during American Flyer's run. You might even create a wish list to add to your collection over time.

Any help you need with anything, just post something and one of us wil be glad to help.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Welcome!! Ditto on what everyone else said about the track.I use original flyer track with rubber road bed. The fast-trak can get expensive fast. The Northern's and Hudsons will run just great on the original flyer track radius, and anything close to it,(aftermarket), will be fine. K-5's are also very nice,(312,312AC),.Layout size is tricky. To get the best bang for the buck, I would go with 5'X 8'. 2 loops of flyer on a 4x8 sheet is tight. GarGraves track is beautiful stuff, and you can it in sectional or 36" flexible track. They also manufacture their own switches. Seeing you already have fast-track, I would stay with it. Remember to add additional power clip-ons to your layout.Ask plenty of questions, we're here to help. All of the guys here are darn good with flyers, me being just a novice who likes to putter around...So there you have it; fast-track, big engines, a few switches, all on a 5x8.


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## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

RookieHudson,
I guess if I had the money i would probably go with Fast Track. As somebody already said it should be around a long while, and new accessories and various size turnouts should be coming out as well. It looks very good and requires no ballasting.

I am using all old flyer track with the rubber road bed as stated by Nuttin, it is probably 20" radius, my bad. Flyernut is also using the old A/F track it really seems to be pretty reliable and readily available. 

Good luck with your planning and keep us all up to date.
Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

If Flyernut is a novice, then I'm Batman -- come on man. give yourself a pat on the back and stop selling yourself short. Many us would still be scratchin' our heads if not for your help and experience.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> If Flyernut is a novice, then I'm Batman -- come on man. give yourself a pat on the back and stop selling yourself short. Many us would still be scratchin' our heads if not for your help and experience.


Thanks for the kinds buddy.. I've learned quite a lot here myself, thanks to the guys like yourself and others.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

Welcome Rookie. I have a mix of track. Some old, original AF stuff and some new American Models track. Pros and cons. Some folks simply like to have everything "AF Original" and that's ok by me. AF track is available everywhere and CHEAP. Even the beat-up stuff can be nursed back into working condition if you are good with your hands/tools. The AF stuff tends to corode and get dirty faster than the "high-end" track (American Models, Gargraves, etc). One up-side to the old AF track, which my kids pointed out... it fits together so poorly (sizable seams and burs) that it makes a "realistic" clickity-clack sound when the cars go over it. The high-end stuff fits so well that it's nearly silent. Good thing/bad thing... depends on how you look at it.

The high-end stuff is extremely realistic looking, stays clean, and conducts juice efficiently. Never a dead spot or an engine that stops because it loses juice momentarily. It's also available in 21", 24" and 27" turns which is nice if you want mutliple trains/tracks occupying the same corner... concentric/parallel. Looks very prototypical that way. The more modern engines can really "creap" along slowly for hours, like what you see when some trains pass through populated areas. I can't speak for Gargraves, as I don;t have any, but the old AF cars and locos run really well on the American Models track. No problem with flange height.

If I had to start fresh I would definitely go "high-end". In actuality it's not that much more $ than old AF or newer AF repro stuff. The turn-outs work much better, especially with some of the older AF locos which have limited electrical pick-up. Why do I have any AF stuff. Probably for the same reason most of us have old AF track. Because we had it as a kid. I also inherited LOTS of track from my FIL. Didn't even know what he was sending me. Got a gazillion miles of old AF track, a 1947, 312, several cars, 2 turn-outs, plasticville stuff, lamposts, transformers, etc. It was a real "find", although it required 100's of hours to recondition. Might be why I got it for free  My kids still enjoy designing/constructing a new lay-out for Christmas each year... and yes, they are WAY past the age when this is supposed to be "cool". Daughter is 16, Son is 14. They love it maybe more than I do.

Regardless of which way you go keep you little ones involved with the process. They'll learn without realizing they are learning.


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## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

PS - the American Models is also available in the "flex track", just like Gargraves. That might be the most compelling reason to go with the "premium" track if you are going to build a creative layout. No restrictions to size or shape. It's really something to see a scale model train traveling down a long, slow, lazy turn.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> Welcome Rookie. I have a mix of track. Some old, original AF stuff and some new American Models track. Pros and cons. Some folks simply like to have everything "AF Original" and that's ok by me. AF track is available everywhere and CHEAP. Even the beat-up stuff can be nursed back into working condition if you are good with your hands/tools. The AF stuff tends to corode and get dirty faster than the "high-end" track (American Models, Gargraves, etc). One up-side to the old AF track, which my kids pointed out... it fits together so poorly (sizable seams and burs) that it makes a "realistic" clickity-clack sound when the cars go over it. The high-end stuff fits so well that it's nearly silent. Good thing/bad thing... depends on how you look at it.
> 
> The high-end stuff is extremely realistic looking, stays clean, and conducts juice efficiently. Never a dead spot or an engine that stops because it loses juice momentarily. It's also available in 21", 24" and 27" turns which is nice if you want mutliple trains/tracks occupying the same corner... concentric/parallel. Looks very prototypical that way. The more modern engines can really "creap" along slowly for hours, like what you see when some trains pass through populated areas. I can't speak for Gargraves, as I don;t have any, but the old AF cars and locos run really well on the American Models track. No problem with flange height.
> 
> ...


All good advice...


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