# Layout:Town or Track First



## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Which is best route,build town then lay track,or lay track first?
I have what town should look like in my head,but getting train to fit in is questionable.Which did you guys start with?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

zzlentz said:


> Which is best route,build town then lay track,or lay track first?
> I have what town should look like in my head,but getting train to fit in is questionable.Which did you guys start with?



Well the old RR's were built going through or to towns. 
You know in the cowboys and Indian days.

I think you should think about what all you want and draw a simple plan then lay the track first.
Just my thoughts, others might disagree.

What ever you plan will change as you go along anyway.
As you build you think of other things to do, then you have to change plans.

I would plan the track and build around it.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Thanks Ed,
I hope to build an old west town as well sometime.
I have found a lot of western playsets online,but it's hard to find any in Ho Scale.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

zzlentz said:


> Thanks Ed,
> I hope to build an old west town as well sometime.
> I have found a lot of western playsets online,but it's hard to find any in Ho Scale.



There are some sets, I think it is harder to find the cowboys and Indians.
I know it is almost impossible to find them for N scale.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The whole point is to fit the track in. The town is an added feature but it has to be serviced by the track. That's where the planning is unless you just wing it and change it until you like it.Try a few different ideas first before you start nailing.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

T-Man said:


> The whole point is to fit the track in. The town is an added feature but it has to be serviced by the track. That's where the planning is unless you just wing it and change it until you like it.Try a few different ideas first before you start nailing.


That's sound advice T-Man,I know a lot ,or even most,build a RailRoad,and the Town or buildings are mostly decoration.I on the other hand,am more interested in building a town,with rails going through it.But even giving that,the train station and other relevant buildings have to be in the right spot along with crossings etc.


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

I have found having your buildings available while laying the track is useful. Without it you are really just guessing/ hoping you left enough room for something to fit. I've already burnt myself 3 times, twice was not enough room and once to much room


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Xnats said:


> I have found having your buildings available while laying the track is useful. Without it you are really just guessing/ hoping you left enough room for something to fit. I've already burnt myself 3 times, twice was not enough room and once to much room



Too much you can always fill in with something.
Too little you got to do it again.

That is why I told him to draw a rough quick plan of what he wants on the layout. Then built accordingly.

Some get really particular in their plan, everything has to be in scale and every detail has to be accounted for. Spend a year on the drawing and then when they go to build it they end up changing it anyway.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

big ed said:


> Too much you can always fill in with something.
> Too little you got to do it again.
> 
> That is why I told him to draw a rough quick plan of what he wants on the layout. Then built accordingly.
> ...


It won't be all that elaborate probably.And I don't have all my building purchased yet.I want the houses,school,park,gas station,trolley for shoppers,1 or 2 skyscrapers,hospital,airport,highways,you know,keep it simple

The western town will be my favorite though.I'm still a cowboy at heart!!!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

zzlentz said:


> It won't be all that elaborate probably.And I don't have all my building purchased yet.I want the houses,school,park,gas station,trolley for shoppers,1 or 2 skyscrapers,hospital,airport,highways,you know,keep it simple
> 
> The western town will be my favorite though.I'm still a cowboy at heart!!!


you forgot, police station, firehouse (with fire engines), a refinery, sawmill, junkyard, factories, waterfalls, river (with fishermen) , lake (with speed boats and bikinis) , mountain (with valleys) tunnels turnpike toll booth, airport etc etc etc. whoops you said airport.

An ocean scene with surfers tugboat in the distance pulling a barge.

You can get carried away once you start thinking.
Best thing to do is not think when your building it.:laugh:


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

I guess that's why it's called hobby,it'never ending.Something you can spend a lifetime on.And what a monument to leave behind.Another Rembrant!!!


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

lol don't forget the trees too.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

zzlentz said:


> Which is best route,build town then lay track,or lay track first?
> I have what town should look like in my head,but getting train to fit in is questionable.Which did you guys start with?


ZZ,

Good question. I think you'd be best served if some design planning considered the key aspects of BOTH the track layout, and the town and roads. I'll use my own very simple HO layout as an example ... it's just a simple "flatland" (MDF sheet) setup, but I pre-planned a bit how I wanted the track to loop around, and how I might fit a small rural town with some buildings and dirt roads into the setup. A small town square (or town circle, really) on the right, and a more informal workshop area on the left. Simple. But, in my opinion, it all somehow "fits" together. I'm not touting anything fancy here ... it's about as simple as it gets, but a little design planning ahead of time helped to charm it up a bit, I think.

Cheers,

TJ


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

That's about what I visualize,except for maybe a street running under the bridge and shops along both sides of the street.And park and neighborhood at other end of layout.Or the trolley going back and forth in front of the stores along side the street.Oh! the possibilities.

How big is this layout?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Possibilities ... YES!

4' x 8'


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Looking at the right side of your pic,I think I have enough piers to take track up off the ground,and maybe run trolley underneath.Put stores on that side, and park and such on the other side.Station maybe on side next to either business or residential area.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

ZZ,
I'm also brand new at this model RR stuff, and am now putting the finishing touches on my 4'X8' layout. I've been obsessed with building it since the first of this year.
My focus was on the history of Flint, MI for my layout. Therefore, at one end, the "industrial" buildings are Buick Motor Co., AC Spark Plug, Durant-Dort, James Lumber, and Wire Wheel Co.......at the other end, because this city is "blue collar", there is a cafe, KFC, gas station, drug store, super market, family restaurant, bank, and railroad station.
If that sounds crowded, you're right! But I love ACTION, so it was so fun to load it up. I'm not so much into super-detail as super-fun.
The bottom line is that it's YOUR railroad, so do what feels and looks good to YOU!
Cheers,
Bob


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

raleets said:


> ZZ,
> I'm also brand new at this model RR stuff, and am now putting the finishing touches on my 4'X8' layout. I've been obsessed with building it since the first of this year.
> My focus was on the history of Flint, MI for my layout. Therefore, at one end, the "industrial" buildings are Buick Motor Co., AC Spark Plug, Durant-Dort, James Lumber, and Wire Wheel Co.......at the other end, because this city is "blue collar", there is a cafe, KFC, gas station, drug store, super market, family restaurant, bank, and railroad station.
> If that sounds crowded, you're right! But I love ACTION, so it was so fun to load it up. I'm not so much into super-detail as super-fun.
> ...


I totally agree. And I would love to see pics of your layout!!


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Well, decided 4ft x 12ft was the biggest size I could handle in the garage, found a layout to fit the space, slightly modified the plan and laid track. The rest is in progress, the thinking being where will the town, industrial area, signals, lights will go and add as I go along. It's whatever you want to do. Everybody goes about it in their own special way. 

B


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

That's what makes it so much fun! 
I'm totally aware that I've painted myself into a corner with my wacky layout but, what the hay, it's fantasyland anyway, right?
To be accurate, I would need old steamers, etc. at the "industrial" end, which has early 1900's buildings, and new diesels at the other end, which has current style commercial buildings. 
My purpose in getting into the hobby was to have something fun to do here in Michigan during the long, cold winters. It's for sure done the deed. 
Gotta love it!
Bob


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

I am thinking of building my western town on same layout with modern town.
By placing a divider(cardboard) between the two.Just cut a little tunnel opening,and go from one world to the next.
But the problem I will have,is finding a loco,that would fit in with both worlds.Boxcars for the most part, stayed the same over the years,but does anyone have a loco in mind that would fit in?


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

That's an easy one. When the train goes thru the tunnel into the old west era simply stop the train, take off the diesel, replace it with a steamer :laugh:
Problem solved!! :thumbsup:
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The tunnel drops down to a lower level, and a different train is driven up to come "out" of the tunnel. All very automated.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Yeah, that would work! :thumbsup:
Now, how about this idea.......simply put a steamer at one end of the train, a diesel at the other end of the train, and assorted rolling stock in between.
Run the steamer into the "old west", then put the train in reverse and run the diesel into the modern town 
Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth......
There, the dragon is dead 
Bob


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

You boys greening me?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

zzlentz said:


> You boys greening me?


What in the world would make you say that?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

zzlentz said:


> I am thinking of building my western town on same layout with modern town.
> By placing a divider(cardboard) between the two.Just cut a little tunnel opening,and go from one world to the next.
> But the problem I will have,is finding a loco,that would fit in with both worlds.Boxcars for the most part, stayed the same over the years,but does anyone have a loco in mind that would fit in?



I will disagree with your statement about box cars (and other cars) staying the same over the years.

The early cars had cat walks on top, were made of wood, shorter then today's box cars, different suspensions.
Tank cars were different too. So were passenger cars.
As with evolution and advances in technology there are a lot of differences.

Check out some history on the earlier railroad trains then compare them to modern times.

An easier way to explain it is to look at the first automobile compared to the ones we have today.

So I will respectfully disagree with your comment on there is not much difference from the early cars verses today's cars.

Your not going to find one loco to go with 2 different worlds.

Me I wouldn't care, it is my RR. And I will run what I want on my RR.

Nothing wrong with a diesel engine running by cowboys and Indians!:laugh::thumbsup:


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

ZZ,
Naw, we're not greening you, just funnin' you
No disrespect, just some good old-fashioned fun in the hobby.
But Big Ed is so right.....it's YOUR railroad, so do what the heck looks cool to YOU.
If (when) some of the "purists" on this forum see my layout they'll roll on the floor laughing before they head for the bathroom 
My summer hobby of over 25 years is classic Buicks and I can tell you that I've finally become sick of being "judged".
Enjoy YOUR layout! :thumbsup:
Bob


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Well how about this? Towns don't change much over the years.
A western town in the 40's.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

zzlentz said:


> Well how about this? Towns don't change much over the years.
> A western town in the 40's.



I will disagree again,

look at pictures of NYC in the 1600's and then today.

Next?


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Come look at my home town.
Check mate!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

zzlentz said:


> Come look at my home town.
> Check mate!



Ed takes the board and throws it across the room!
Overturns the table and tosses the chairs!
Shoots the mirror with his Colt 45! (western town right?)



What town would that be?
Might have rolled through it already.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

ZZ,
Yep, sure agree with you about home towns not changing much. I visited the little burg where I grew up last year and didn't get lost once 
On the other hand, the town where I've lived the past 45 years has changed big time.
About the only thing that HASN'T changed in either of them is the placement of the bloomin' railroad tracks! Cawanbunga 
Bob


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

Replace all the people with apes, then the time frames wont matter. You can even add modern subways.








Thanks for the chuckle first thing this morning. Good luck with the layout, what ever do you as long as you like it that is all that matters.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Now THAT makes sense!:thumbsup:
Bob


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

zzlentz,
I do hope your taking all of what everyone is saying to you in "fun". 
Big ED is right! #1 rule its your trains, play with them the way you want!:thumbsup:
If your looking for engines and freight cars to span a gap like that it's going to be tough, why not compromise and make a town that never grew up, There are plenty up here!!
Then make the modern side of things too! 2 sides of the world and you can run 2 trains to make them inter mix.
If your a true conviction is to keep them both "True to age" then you truly can't connect the two. I have engines and rolling stock that span 50+ years and I would say they all look great running around together!


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Just to show you how nuts I am, there are REAL peanuts in my Planter's gondola car.......REAL small band aids in my M*A*S*H* gondola car......and REAL Coca-Cola caps in my Coke gondola car :laugh:
Are we havin' fun yet?? 
Bob


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## Canadian Car Knocker (Feb 8, 2011)

Do you by chance have any Crown Royal cars? lol


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## Robes (Jan 5, 2011)

The western town will be my favorite though.I'm still a cowboy at heart!!!

Hey ZZ,.... guess what I do?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Robes said:


> The western town will be my favorite though.I'm still a cowboy at heart!!!
> 
> Hey ZZ,.... guess what I do?



You can't fool me with a Ronnie Reagan picture!


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Hey, Car Knocker,
Nope, no Crown Royal cars, just Black Velvet 
Yes, I'm serious. It's a black tanker with gold lettering that matches the exact Black Velvet logo.
It runs right behind the Budweiser reefer car and just in front of the Sonoma Wines twin tanker car. 
Gets damned thirsty on the railroad, right?
Bob


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