# Steamer nichrome wire gauge?



## yd328

I got my 332 running but there is no smoke. I did add fluid and let it soak a day before running. I would like to buy a roll of wire and some wick material to rebuild it. I know there are kits out there but I figure this won't be my only smoke box rebuild. Does anyone know the wire gauge?

Thanks Gary


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## wvgca

it's also a good idea to get the resistance, ohms per foot , there are differences in the wire ..


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## mopac

yd328, just my opinion. I have tried buying wire and wick in 3 ft sections and winding them myself. You will save a little money, but not much. In the long run probably none.
Some of my smoke rebuilds work and some lasted 2 seconds before going up in a flash of light. None worked that great. I suggest one of 2 things. Buy the prewound wicks and wire or buy some Lionel open air resistors and some wick material. The small wire to wind wicks with is a PITA to work with. If any of your windings touch the whole thing goes up in a flash of light. You might save $2.00 per smoke unit winding them yourself.
Key word is might. flyernut is the best rebuilder of AF steamers I have seen and he buys the prewound kits for a reason. I am glad I tried it a couple times but I am done doing it. I use the resistors, much easier to work with. I have had no flashes of light with the resistors..


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## mopac

Here is a video I did using a LIONEL 27 ohm resistor in smoke unit. Instead of the thin wire.


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## wvgca

that's a decent amount of smoke, nothing wrong with that at all ..


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

I am not promoting this item but found it interesting. It gave me an idea or two. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-F...=28355356719239f38f7bb2e1453f91a97d739e66b1f2


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> Here is a video I did using a LIONEL 27 ohm resistor in smoke unit. Instead of the thin wire.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV-Nk1cq5mk


Me like!!


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## mopac

yd328, using that thin wire you want to register about 40 ohms, checking from both sides of your coil. Lower than 40 ohms will smoke more but it won't last as long. That wire is so thin it burns into real easy.


I don't know why the wire doesn't just burn up. Its a dead short.
That's why I do not think it is the gauge of the wire, it is special wire used for heating elements.
I would think it would trip the short light in transformer. If you lay bare wire across your track,
it will throw a short. When you do a smoke unit you will see what I mean. Its a dead short.


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## shaker281

If it measures (27 or) 40 ohms, it is not a dead short. From a circuit perspective, it would be identical to a resistor. But, I get your point. Think about this (if you want your head to hurt), the winding of a 312 (which is in parallel to the smoke unit and light bulb) is only 1.3 ohms! Talk about your dead short! 

I like the 27 ohm resistor idea. 

Anyhow, I have a pre-wound kit I haven't used yet. I ended up buying a whole smoke unit, supposedly tested and working. It doesn't, though it checked out at 27 ohms before installation. And still reads ~14 ohms in parallel with the light bulb and winding. Which is as expected. I bought it because I had little confidence that I would get it right the first time and I needed the smoke box insulator too. Which made the purchase, incl shipping, only $10 more than parts alone. 

Ironically, I am not sure I even want to bother. Don't want that much smoke in a not-too-ventilated basement rec room. Should've gone with my first instinct to install a dummy smoke unit.


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## mopac

If you notice in the video, it only puts out a lot of smoke when running fast.
The resistor is just easier for me to work with. I think it will last longer. Last
order from Jeff Kane included 7 of those insulator boxes. That's what he had on hand.


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## AmFlyer

First, the motor is a series connected universal motor so the total DC resistance (armature+field) is 2.5 ohms. Second, and more important a motor is not comparable to a resistor. At a steady speed on level track that motor only draws less than 1A, so the operating impedance is over 12 ohms. Under light load the motor impedance can be over 20 ohms. 
If the motor is stalled and it is operating on DC then the impedance will approach the 2.5 ohm value. Link coupler engines w/o traction tires would just spin their wheels so the motor would not overheat. A later engine with PullMor could overheat and damage the motor windings if the train stalled and the wheels would not spin.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

AmFlyer said:


> First, the motor is a series connected universal motor so the total DC resistance (armature+field) is 2.5 ohms. Second, and more important a motor is not comparable to a resistor. At a steady speed on level track that motor only draws less than 1A, so the operating impedance is over 12 ohms. Under light load the motor impedance can be over 20 ohms.
> If the motor is stalled and it is operating on DC then the impedance will approach the 2.5 ohm value. Link coupler engines w/o traction tires would just spin their wheels so the motor would not overheat. A later engine with PullMor could overheat and damage the motor windings if the train stalled and the wheels would not spin.


I appreciate your technical knowledge and explanations AmFlyer! Although it was 55 years ago when Uncle Sam, in one year, gave me my initial electronics exposure. I worked as a technician for the first ten or so years but after that I was in management. Talking in terms of Impedance, VA's and specific AF knowledge brings back much of what I have forgotten. :laugh::laugh::laugh: Please keep it up.:thumbsup:


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## AmFlyer

I decided to leave out the specifics of back EMF in a motor because I have also forgotten most of what I once knew!


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## cramden

yd328 said:


> I got my 332 running but there is no smoke. I did add fluid and let it soak a day before running. I would like to buy a roll of wire and some wick material to rebuild it. I know there are kits out there but I figure this won't be my only smoke box rebuild. Does anyone know the wire gauge?
> 
> Thanks Gary


The repair manual by Tom Barker says the wire is #40 Nichrome. He states that it should be approx. 70 ohms per foot. A quick google search will give you lots of choices. Guys on different forums have said that "Tiki Torch" replacement wick is a substitute for the batting. I prefer to buy the pre-wound kits, but if you want to rewind your own, give it a try. Here's a listing on ebay that has 67.63 ohms per foot for a 500 ft. roll. There are smaller rolls but the price is cheaper buying larger amounts. Let us know how you make out if you decide to go this route. Hope this helps. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nichrome-8...025?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0


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## flyernut

Just buy the pre-wound kit. Save yourself a migraine.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

FlyerNut knows! Good advice.


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## mopac

That locomotive in the video has a vintage wick in it with a resistor. I got a 302 from flyernut a couple weeks ago. A non smoker. I had bought 10 feet of 1/4 inch tiki torch wick. GunRunnerJohn had said the tiki torch stuff made a good wick. The 1/4 inch wick was way to thick to get through the holes so I unbraided the wick. Got 4 wicks out of it. 10 feet will do many wicks. I guess I cut off about 14 inches for a wick. Anyway, the tiki torch wick does work well. With a resistor and the tiki torch wick the 302 smokes very similar to locomotive in video. The vintage wicks and the tiki torch wicks are both fiberglass.

I have done it a few times, but I will never try to wind my own wicks again. LOL, no more migraines for me.

Using a resistor and tiki torch wick will cost less than 2 bucks to rebuild a smoke unit. Not counting an insulator box if needed.


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## yd328

Thanks for all of the replies. My tinkering impulse wants to buy the materials and attempt to fix it. I have been down the path before of cheaper is not always better. I will follow the advice given here and save myself a migrane or two. 

Thanks Again 
Gary


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## mopac

Many times it is better to listen to people that have been there. Nothing good will come from you winding your own wicks. None of mine are working now. So how much did I save. Prewound will run you around 4 or 5 dollars. The Train Tender has some.


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## yd328

Update, I took the smoke box apart and noticed the wire was not open. Ther was 30 ohms resistance. I carefully pulled up the wick to see all the hardened smoke fluid around the wire. I broke it down with rubbing alcohol, made sure it dried and reassmbled. We have smoke! Ran it for about 30 minuted and had a respectable amount of smoke. I now know what I'm in for if I have to replace the wick assembly.

Gary
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=502914&stc=1&d=1563817437
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=502916&stc=1&d=1563817437


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

yd328 said:


> Update, I took the smoke box apart and noticed the wire was not open. Ther was 30 ohms resistance. I carefully pulled up the wick to see all the hardened smoke fluid around the wire. I broke it down with rubbing alcohol, made sure it dried and reassmbled. We have smoke! Ran it for about 30 minuted and had a respectable amount of smoke. I now know what I'm in for if I have to replace the wick assembly.
> 
> Gary
> https://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=502914&stc=1&d=1563817437
> https://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=502916&stc=1&d=1563817437


Well done Gary!


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## wvgca

it's good to know that it works properly now ...


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## mopac

Glad you got smoke. That is old wick and coil. Might be original. Good jobputting it back together and getting smoke. I usually break the wire when I take one apart. I bet a can of
CRC spray cleaner would help also. I got my can at Walmart. I mainly use it to clean reverse units.


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## mopac

Glad you got smoke. That is old wick and coil. Might be original. Good job putting it back together and getting smoke. I usually break the wire when I take one apart. I bet a can of
CRC spray cleaner would help also. I got my can at Walmart. I mainly use it to clean reverse units.




Sorry for double post. Guess I got click happy.


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## shaker281

Yes, good job!


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## yd328

mopac said:


> Glad you got smoke. That is old wick and coil. Might be original. Good job putting it back together and getting smoke. I usually break the wire when I take one apart. I bet a can of
> CRC spray cleaner would help also. I got my can at Walmart. I mainly use it to clean reverse units.


It had a piece of masking tape holding a piece of plastic over the terminals, not sure if tha is original. I do have some of the CRC out in the garage that I forgot about. I'll use that on the next one. I was waiting for that fine wire to break, I think I got lucky. The small air chamber hole was also clogged.

Gary


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## flyernut

yd328 said:


> It had a piece of masking tape holding a piece of plastic over the terminals, not sure if tha is original. I do have some of the CRC out in the garage that I forgot about. I'll use that on the next one. I was waiting for that fine wire to break, I think I got lucky. The small air chamber hole was also clogged.
> 
> Gary


That masking tape is original. It was used to protect the solder lugs from shorting out on the boiler shell.


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## yd328

Thanks Flyernut,
I put it back the best I could. 

Gary


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