# Lionel Engine/Tender Repair Help!



## edkedk (May 2, 2013)

I am the owner of a Lionel train set that was left out in the weather, (rain, but no snow), for about 10 years. Things don't look so good. I am planning to take the engine and tender apart to try and clean up the mess. Is there any documentation available that shows all parts form a total dis-assembly and rebuild of a specific engine/tender set? 

I have noticed that some metal cast parts appear to have a white coating, (oxidation of what ever material was used to cast the part). Can this be easily cleaned?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Try vinegar on the oxidation. You'll have to be more specific as to the exact locomotive and tender you have for more detailed information. How about some pictures?


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

If you can read the number on the side of the engine that will help, also post some pictures. The guys on here are amazing with some of their restorations, I am sure they can be of some help. Ten years in the weather sounds like it will be an interesting . Here is a link to Big Ed's Dump find restoration, it may be helpful projecthttp://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7467 hopefully I posted the link properly.
Randy


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

I see GRJ beat me to the punch asking for pictures. It also looks like I didn't get the link right. You can find the link in the 610 switcher post, that is where I read it.
Randy


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

First, do the wheels turn? If they do, you could probably get the loco to run pretty well just by lubing it. Use 5W-20 or 10W-30 motor oil. Do not use Lionel Lube, WD-40, 3 in 1 oil, light machine oil, grease as these all get gummy or hard in a short period of time. Motor oil never dries out or gets gummy. Lube the bearings and gears. Lube the axles for the drivers. Lube the side rods and main rods. Lube the pony truck and trailing truck. If it rotates or slides, lube it. Lube the pickup rollers. Put it on the track and see if it will run.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

All great advice, pictures would be helpful. These guys can help fix almost anything! 10 years outdoors, I would definitely consider new wiring!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

rdmtgm said:


> Here is a link to Big Ed's Dump find restoration, it may be helpful projecthttp://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7467 hopefully I posted the link properly.
> Randy


When you link a thread go to the thread, once there copy the address bar then paste what you copy back in your post.


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7467

You can't just copy and paste the link like you tried to do.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Or you can just right click over the link and pick copy link address, then just go back and paste.


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

Thanks Big ed. will try to get it right next time.


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## edkedk (May 2, 2013)

*Engine/Tender Photos*

Here are some photos of the engine/tender I am trying to rebuild:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Definitely need to clean the wheels and pu rollers. I use a dremal with a wire wheel. You could also try evaporust. Clean up all the rust polish it up and oil all the moving parts. Pop off the shell and give us some more pictures. The brushes and communicator most likely need to be cleaned good also. It doesn't look that bad for being outside that long!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If it were mine, I would lube the loco using ordinary motor oil, and then put it on the track and run it for a good while. That will clean most of the rust off of the wheels and pickup rollers. If necessary, put the E unit in forward only. 

If you elect to use a wire wheel, do the work inside of a small box, about 12" square so the wires from the wire wheel don't get all over your work area and stick to your clothes. I got one in the bottom of my foot a few years ago, and I couldn't see it. Fortunately, my son was there with young eyes, and he got it out. In the box, keep the Dremel shaft vertical so the wires don't fly out of the box.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

And safety goggles are a must too!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I forgot a welcome to the site, Welcome. 


Are you going to just try to clean it up or are you going to paint it?

By the looks of it and from being outside for that long it should be taken apart and cleaned.

How much experience do you have working on these?
It is not that hard, we will walk you through. There are picture sites of the inside if you need them.

Here is yours, http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2035.htm click on them to see them larger.

Did you look here? http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7467

This was a save from the dump, reminds me of yours.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This thread might give you a little inspiration.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15024

It sat under salt water for 2 weeks, then under a sandy/muddy muck for another 2 weeks waiting to be rescued.
If that couldn't kill the Locomotive nothing will. 
A least yours was getting fresh water on it, much better than salt water. :smokin:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> And safety goggles are a must too!


I just close my eyes. 
A reflective vest and steel toed shoes might be in order to.


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## edkedk (May 2, 2013)

Big Ed;

Thanks for the info. This is my first venture into Lionel O gauge repair. With that service manual I have more info than I'll ever need. I now will not be afraid to disassemble in fear that I won't be able to reassemble.

The Pictures in the last page jump actually look worse than my engine.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

edkedk said:


> Big Ed;
> 
> Thanks for the info. This is my first venture into Lionel O gauge repair. With that service manual I have more info than I'll ever need. I now will not be afraid to disassemble in fear that I won't be able to reassemble.
> 
> The Pictures in the last page jump actually look worse than my engine.


We will help if you need it, I don't know if the last link was right?

I will try it again,

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15024

Edit,
This is the right link I fixed the above one too.


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## edkedk (May 2, 2013)

Page 1 of the service manual shows the electrical wiring diagram. Since I am not familiar with AC voltage operating trains, can some explain or point me to a discussion of how the "E Unit" works and operation of it's component part


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The E-Unit basically reverses the connections to the armature brushes to reverse the direction of rotation, the field is energized the same for either direction. For neutral, they just interrupt the power to the motor. The sequence is N-F-N-R... Each time you interrupt power, the E-Unit coil drops and picks up when you reapply power, stepping to the next "gear". The E-Unit is a gravity device, when you drop power, the plunger drops and the pawl is ready to grab the next tooth and advance the unit to the next position.

The switch at the top of the E-Unit locks the locomotive into the current operating mode, as the coil has no power and will never advance the "gear".


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## edkedk (May 2, 2013)

I got everything working but the Brush Carrier Plate, which is also the motor rotor shaft support, was cracked at the shaft support hole and broke so that it will now not properly support the rotor shaft. This seems to be a very poor design. I made a metal support plate that fits between the brushes but could not get proper adhesion to the Brush Carrier Pale material using Super Glue. Has anyone designed a rotor shaft support that is sturdier, gives proper support to the shaft and fits into the available space?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have never had a broken brush plate. Can you post a picture?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

I've not seen a broken one myself. It's possible being in the weather caused it to deteriorate but that's speculation. The part is available #2036-150, $11.00+shipping at traindoctor.com Jeff at ttender will have them too. 

As to repairing one, they really shouldn't see a large amount of stress unless something is out of kilter. It's possible the material doesn't bond well with super glue, and may not to epoxy either. Also keep in mind the brushes need a certain pressure to work, and aluminum will conduct electricity so without seeing your idea, no way to say if it would work properly.

For the cost, I'd get a replacement.

Carl


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Kwikster said:


> I've not seen a broken one myself. It's possible being in the weather caused it to deteriorate but that's speculation. The part is available #2036-150, $11.00+shipping at traindoctor.com Jeff at ttender will have them too.
> 
> As to repairing one, they really shouldn't see a large amount of stress unless something is out of kilter. It's possible the material doesn't bond well with super glue, and may not to epoxy either. Also keep in mind the brushes need a certain pressure to work, and aluminum will conduct electricity so without seeing your idea, no way to say if it would work properly.
> 
> ...


Jeff has it for $6.00. How come you listed #2036-150?

Part number for the 2035 engine is 2035-132 on Olsens picture. 
Is that the same plate?


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## edkedk (May 2, 2013)

Photos showing the broken piece on the Brush Plate and my attempted repair. The repair actually worked well until the Super Glue adhesion failed.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Clean the face of this (yellow arrow) up too before you put it back together.








A brite boy and some rubbing alcohol will work.
Make it nice and shiny. That is where the brushes make contact. Take a toothpick and clean out the slots too.

Call Jeff the Trainmaster and tell him what you got and what you need.
http://www.ttender.com/index.htm 
The one shown for $11.00 Jeff has for $6.00.
But that number for the part he lists is for a different motor. Though I asked he did not answer and logged off. It may be that it will fit more then one motor.

I would see if you need any more parts to save on shipping before you order.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Buy the replacement part, you wouldn't be sorry. They look cheap but 60 years or so ( on most of my stuff) there still holding up strong. That rig doesn't look bad at all inside . Amazing!


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

big ed said:


> Jeff has it for $6.00. How come you listed #2036-150?
> 
> Part number for the 2035 engine is 2035-132 on Olsens picture.
> Is that the same plate?


Oops, I was looking at 2037, not 2035. My error. In My Greenbergs book, they are only a couple pages apart too.

Carl


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## edkedk (May 2, 2013)

I did a good rough-up job on both surfaces of the motor rotor support rebuild and used "J-B Weld" epoxy to secure the metal piece to the original support material. I did about 30 minutes of running and it seems to be holding.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Glad to hear that it worked out. Normally these engines run poorly when the hole to the brush plate gets warn. One repair is to install an eye rivet. Otherwise you can order a new one.
From my escapades with epoxy. Superglue will hold delicate parts until I can reinforce it with JB Weld. Eventually if possible the part does get replaced.

Brushplates are important to armature position. On a nice engine like yours I would replace but then you have the satisfaction of a good repair. 

Another fix for JB Weld.:thumbsup:


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