# Soldering power wires



## CV-62 (Dec 9, 2018)

My current plan is to use Flex Track. I have not yet decided on a brand. I plan to solder each 30" section of track by temporarily removing two or three ties, solder and then refasten the ties. Inside tunnels I plan two sets of power wires for each section of track for redundancy. 

I am a retired master electrician so I am familiar with wire sizes, terminal strips and the like. Soldering is not my forte but I shall overcome. 

My question is what is the common size wire that I would be soldering to the rails that will go back to the area power busses. I am thinking at least 16-18 AWG. I figure to run the largest size wire that the DCC controller will accept to the power busses. Hopefully that will be at least 14 gauge or 12. 

Am I over thinking all this? Voltage drop can be a real PITA. 

Thanx.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I used 22 ga solid for my feeders. It tucks up nicely under the railhead. Removing ties is not necessary as you drill between the ties and then solder. Most people feed every other section of flex.


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## CV-62 (Dec 9, 2018)

Wow, much smaller then I thought. Thank you.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I may have misunderstood the part about removing ties. If you are referring to the ends of the flex, yes you will need to remove one tie from each end to allow for the rail joiners. I have 60 feet of 14 ga solid buss feeding 120 feet of track (twice around) and it seems to work fine. An idea I used was to cut alot of shrink tubing and slide the pieces on the buss for the feeder connections. Quite a few people prefer stranded wire but having worked with solid for a long time, I went with that.


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## CV-62 (Dec 9, 2018)

Bwells said:


> I may have misunderstood the part about removing ties. If you are referring to the ends of the flex, yes you will need to remove one tie from each end to allow for the rail joiners. I have 60 feet of 14 ga solid buss feeding 120 feet of track (twice around) and it seems to work fine. An idea I used was to cut alot of shrink tubing and slide the pieces on the buss for the feeder connections. Quite a few people prefer stranded wire but having worked with solid for a long time, I went with that.


Actually I was talking about removing the ties where I will be soldering as to not melt them. I was thinking about doing all the soldering before the track is installed. My thinking was it would also be easier to remove any excess flux that way. I am no expert solderer but I do know it is best to tin everything first and then with a HOT iron get in and out. Of course, plans always change once the shooting starts.

As for you using #14 solid wire with the shrink tube, I could not agree more. Solid forms better too and does not have so much of a mind of its own when trying to dress up the wires and make everything look good. Solid wire when terminating power panels always made for a better looking job then stranded. 

Also good to have every wire labeled with a Brady label and a feeder map to help with future troubleshooting and old timer memory loss.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

CV-62, make sure you solder the wires to the bottom or outside edge of the rails. If you solder on the inside, the wheel flanges will hit it and likely derail.

I found some small telephone wire at a construction site and use it for my feeder wires. I agree with BWells that feeding every section of flextrack is overkill. I've supplied a feeder about every 6-8 feet and it works great on my 4x8 layout.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Power feeders*



CV-62 said:


> My current plan is to use Flex Track. I have not yet decided on a brand. I plan to solder each 30" section of track by temporarily removing two or three ties, solder and then refasten the ties. Inside tunnels I plan two sets of power wires for each section of track for redundancy.
> 
> I am a retired master electrician so I am familiar with wire sizes, terminal strips and the like. Soldering is not my forte but I shall overcome.
> 
> ...


 CV-62

The feeder wires are typically quite short. 6" or so. They connect straight down to the much larger (typically14Ga.) bus wires, which follow the pattern of the track. So there is no significant power loss in the short feeders.
As for soldering feeder wires; yes, I agree, tin both the rail and the end of the wire, and use a brief touch. You've got that right.

You don't need to remove any ties to solder on a feeder wire. Just use heat sinks on either side of the place where you solder a wire onto the outside of the rail. Alligator clips, those aluminum hair roller clips women use, and wet paper towels will all serve as good heat sinks. Just in case you're unfamiliar with the term, a "heat sink" is just some object that is a good conductor of heat, placed between the hot soldering spot and something you want to shield from the heat, in this case the plastic ties.

As for brands of flex track,

Atlas is the cheapest, and most flexible and "springy." (It springs back to straight as soon as you let go of it.)

Micro Engineering flex track is, hands down, absolutely the most realistic-looking flex track I've ever seen. It is not "springy." at all. (It holds whatever shape you bend it to.) It's more expensive than Atlas. Micro Engineering also makes turnouts. They are just as realistic-looking as their flex track, and they have a good reputation for reliability and general quality. However, their selection is limited to a #6 right hand turnout, and a #6 left hand turnout. That's it.
I use Micro Engineering's code 55, N-scale, flex track for all visible track, and some Atlas code 80 flex track I had on hand for hidden track. The Atlas code 80 N-scale track looks pretty bad, but it works fine. If one were to use Atlas N-scale flex track where it will be seen, I'd use the Atlas code 55 N-scale flex, which looks a lot more like real track than the code 80 does. Neither is anywhere near as realistic as the Micro Engineering though.

Peco is very good quality flex track. Some Peco flex track has a somewhat peculiar construction. Their "code 55" flex is actually made with code 70 rail that is partially buried in the thick plastic tie strip that Peco uses. This makes for a very strong piece of track, but it may require some adapting if you need to join it to another brand of track. Peco brand turnouts are also excellent. I strongly recommend them over Atlas. 

You are smart to use two sets of feeders in tunnels. Though tunnel track and any other hidden track should be easily, and completely, accessible for cleaning, maintenance, and getting errant wheels back on track. By the way, it's a good idea to include a re-railer section near each end of a tunnel track. (See photo)

I strongly disagree with the prior advice not to solder feeders to each and every section of flex track. I think you should. That way you never have to rely on rail joiners to carry electricity. Being metal, they can, and do conduct electricity quite well of course; that is, AT FIRST.
However dirt, water from ballasting, oxidization, etc. will, over time, tend to turn the joiners from conductors into insulators. Soldered rail joints are the exception. Two pieces of track soldered to each other, can be considered, electrically and physically, as one longer track section.
Soldering feeders from every track section to the bus wires, means you will always and forever have reliable power to every inch of track on your railroad, no matter what happens to the rail joiners. I wouldn't have it any other way. 

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CV-62 (Dec 9, 2018)

traction fan said:


> CV-62
> 
> The feeder wires are typically quite short. 6" or so. They connect straight down to the much larger (typically14Ga.) bus wires, which follow the pattern of the track. So there is no significant power loss in the short feeders.
> As for soldering feeder wires; yes, I agree, tin both the rail and the end of the wire, and use a brief touch. You've got that right.
> ...


First off, I wish this forum had the "thanks" option so I could give one to each and every reply here. All good and sound advice. 

I just started today researching rail codes. I still need to come up to speed on that. As for the flex track I will check out Peco and Micro. There is an old saying, buy the best it only hurts once, buy cheap and it hurts over and over again. 

My research also indicated soldering each section of track and soldering each turnout 3 times which will be a bear as I am planning a switching heavy layout to start so I do not get bored too quickly with just a roundy round. 

Thanx again all.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Soldering every joint?*



CV-62 said:


> First off, I wish this forum had the "thanks" option so I could give one to each and every reply here. All good and sound advice.
> 
> I just started today researching rail codes. I still need to come up to speed on that. As for the flex track I will check out Peco and Micro. There is an old saying, buy the best it only hurts once, buy cheap and it hurts over and over again.
> 
> ...


CV-62;

There are different opinions on the idea of soldering all the rail joints.

On the plus side, this means the entire track is all one long continuous piece, both physically and electrically. There are no gaps between any of the rail ends, and, if you are careful about keeping those rail ends in proper alignment as you solder, then there will be no kinked rail joints on the whole railroad. Sounds great doesn't it?

On the minus side, this means the entire track is all one long continuous piece physically. Which means there is no provision at all for expansion or contraction when the temperature changes. Now the metal rails themselves don't expand or contract very much. However the wood under them does expand and contract a lot more. Temperature and humidity both affect wood. Sooner or later, it will change its shape a bit. Painting or sealing the wooden sub roadbed (the part directly supporting the track, and the cork or foam roadbed) can help some. Building the sub roadbed as an inverted channel with small wooden beams along the bottom of each side of the roadbed helps even more. Effectively, when built this way, your roadbed becomes a continuous deck girder bridge; super rigid, and quite warp resistant. This is the construction I use, and it works. Here's how I learned to do it this way.
Even a small bump, or dip, in the roadbed and track shows up very dramatically in N-scale. My old N-scale club did not reinforce their plywood roadbed. A crew took some video of trains traveling along the main line. The trains looked like boats navigating rough seas! Up and down, up and down, bouncy bouncy! 

Besides the wood roadbed, the rails do expand and contract some small amount. Sometimes this is enough to bow them inward or outward a little. This puts the track out of proper gage and can cause derailments. I have personally seen an extreme case where several feet of flex track actually had the rails rip themselves up out of the plastic tie strip due to thermal expansion!

All that leads up to my opinion, and the way my railroad's track is laid. I solder the rail joints on curves. I solder the two pieces of flex track together at my workbench, while they are still straight. This helps greatly in preventing kinks in the joints of a curve. Then I take the long, soldered, section to the layout and bend the entire thing to the desired curve.

I do not solder any rail joints on straight track, and I definitely do not solder any of the rail joints of a turnout. Leaving a tiny (1/32" or so) gap between the unsoldered rail ends on straight track means it can expand a little as it needs to. Leaving the rail joints of turnouts unsoldered does the same thing, but it also means I can remove the turnout if I need to, without destroying it in the process. I learned that lesson the hard way. I had soldered all the rail joints of my turnouts. Some were damaged and needed to be removed for repairs. I ended up replacing just about every one I removed because the unsoldering, and rail joiner removal, process damaged the turnouts to the point that they were beyond repair and needed to be replaced. A very expensive lesson! :smilie_auslachen:

Using feeder wires to each section of track, and down to the bus wires eliminates any electrical reason for soldering rail joiners. The power already has a perfect path through the wires. Soldering the joiners for conducting electricity is redundant.
Soldering them to maintain physical alignment makes sense on curves but is really not necessary on straight track. A straight line is a straight line. Wheels are not likely to have any problem traveling through a properly laid, straight, rail joint.

Rail codes: are simply the height of the model rail in 1000ths. of an inch. Thus code 80 rail is 80/1000ths" high, and code 55 rail is 55/1000ths" high. Rail codes are simply cosmetic. Wheels will roll on nearly any code rail. There is one odd exception to this in N-scale. Atlas brand, code 55 track has oversize spike detail. It works just fine with current production, shallow-flanged wheels. Older, deep-flanged wheels (nicknamed "pizza cutters") will hit the oversize spikes and bounce along from one tie to the next. There are aftermarket wheels with shallow flanges that can replace the old deep ones. Micro Engineering track will handle either deep, or shallow, flanged wheels because it has smaller spike detail. 
So rail code is all about looks. Smaller rail simply looks more realistic, because it's closer to scale size. Atlas track with code 80 rail would scale up to rail about a foot high in real life. That's a lot bigger than any rail ever used on a real railroad. I recommend using code 55 track.

Regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

P.S. Did I ever send you any of my pdf files? I'm old and have "somehimers" (it's like Alzheimer's but intermittent! :laugh I forget which new people I've sent them to. The reason I ask is that they contain a lot of the same information we have been dealing with here, with detailed explanations.


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## CV-62 (Dec 9, 2018)

traction fan said:


> CV-62;
> 
> There are different opinions on the idea of soldering all the rail joints.
> 
> ...


Yes, you sent me those .pdf's and I am currently about halfway through them. Thank you again for those. Very informative. Also watching a series on Youtube called model railroading 101 which is good for a beginner. 

You have supplied much more good info and I appreciate that. I appreciate the time it takes to type it out as well. Actually all of you have. Real world experience is priceless. 

After much reading i have decided on the NCE Power Cab DCC system. I think I may start with that, a small engine like the Atlas S2 and then temporarily lay some track, electric switches and get the feel of everything, how it works, etc. Of course, after the holidays. 

I will start with good quality track and switches as generally speaking it only costs a little more to get better quality and better quality means less time toubleshooting. 

Cheers.


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

One thing I have not seen mentioned yet is Rail Joiners. If you use the standard ones then use the the ones you have the track for. If you buy Atlas flex track use Atlas Rail Joiners Same with Peco buy peco rail joiners. Believe me they are not the same. I tried it and the Atlas while cheaper was also too tight and had to fight just to put them on the peco flex track I bought. I went out and got some peco ones and they slide right on. Tight but not too tight.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Smart plan!*



CV-62 said:


> Yes, you sent me those .pdf's and I am currently about halfway through them. Thank you again for those. Very informative. Also watching a series on Youtube called model railroading 101 which is good for a beginner.
> 
> You have supplied much more good info and I appreciate that. I appreciate the time it takes to type it out as well. Actually all of you have. Real world experience is priceless.
> 
> ...


CV-62;

It certainly sounds to me like you have a very good plan to get you started after the holidays. So, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and have fun. More or less in that order. :laugh:

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CV-62 (Dec 9, 2018)

traction fan said:


> CV-62;
> 
> It certainly sounds to me like you have a very good plan to get you started after the holidays. So, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and have fun. More or less in that order. :laugh:
> 
> Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


Thank you and same to you, sir.


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## dterhu (Sep 26, 2018)

This is all great info on the soldering wires. I'm new so sorry for what may be dumb questions. I'm planning on using 14 ga solid wire for the buss lines. I assume buss meaning the two lines running under the track that I use to hook in the feeder wires to the rail. Would I be OK using lamp cord 18 ga as the feeders? 
Thanks.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Welcome aboard!*



dterhu said:


> This is all great info on the soldering wires. I'm new so sorry for what may be dumb questions. I'm planning on using 14 ga solid wire for the buss lines. I assume buss meaning the two lines running under the track that I use to hook in the feeder wires to the rail. Would I be OK using lamp cord 18 ga as the feeders?
> Thanks.


dterhu;

Welcome to the forum! Don't worry about asking questions. That's one of the main reasons this forum exists. We are a polite, and friendly group here. No one on this forum is likely to criticize you for being new, or asking questions. The only "dumb" questions are those that are not asked, when perhaps, they should have been. 

To answer your questions, yes, bus wires are the ones that run, more or less parallel to the track, and under the table, and 14Ga. solid, or stranded, wire is a good size. For feeder wires 18Ga. will work, but its rather big, and that may make it harder to hide them when they are soldered to the rails. Smaller 22-24Ga. wire is commonly used for feeders. Feeder, or drop, wires are short (typically 6" or less) and therefore don't add any serious resistance to the track power system. A pair of feeder wires every 4-8 feet is all you'll need even on a large layout. For a small loop of track one or two sets of feeders is usually all that's needed.

Since you are new, I'm attaching some files that I wrote specifically for new modelers. I'll also recommend a good book on the subject.
It's titled "Getting Started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. You can order a copy from https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books 

Also check out our "Beginner's Q&A" section here on the forum. It has lots of good information for "newbies." 

Again welcome;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos: 

View attachment WHERE DO I START 3.pdf


View attachment 1 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 2 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 3 & 4 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 5 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 6 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment Model Railroad Terminology 2.2.pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


View attachment All AboutTurnouts.pdf


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## dterhu (Sep 26, 2018)

I am running feeder lines from buss lines to my layout. It is mentioned that turnouts get three wires. Do I need to run feeders to the actual turnout or will it be enough to have feeders going the the track leading into and out of the turnouts?

Thanks.
Doug


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Feeder wires to turnouts*



dterhu said:


> I am running feeder lines from buss lines to my layout. It is mentioned that turnouts get three wires. Do I need to run feeders to the actual turnout or will it be enough to have feeders going the the track leading into and out of the turnouts?
> 
> Thanks.
> Doug


 Doug;

How many feeder wires your turnouts will need depends on the type of turnout you are using. Typically, the third wire is used to power a metal frog. If your turnouts have a plastic frog, or a metal frog that you don't want to power, then you may not need a third wire.*

The other two wires each go to one of the "stock" rails. (The rails that the train's wheels roll on.) The feeder wires should be soldered directly to the turnout rails, and at the "points" (one track) end of the turnout, not the "frog" end (Two diverging tracks.)

Note: use heat sinks to protect the plastic ties of your turnout while soldering. Wet paper towels, or alligator clips, placed on either side of the area to be soldered will be good heat sinks. 

Not soldering feeders to the turnouts, but only to the track sections near the turnout, will mean depending on the rail joiners between that track section and the turnout, to provide train-running power to the rails of the turnout. Relying on rail joiners to carry electricity is not something I recommend. Over time, the joiners will get dirty, and/or corroded, and stop conducting electricity reliably. If you plan to solder the rail joiners of your turnouts (also not recommended) then I guess you could feed them power from an adjacent track section.
Wiring turnouts can be confusing, because there are different types of turnouts, and different wiring options for some of those types. The attached file; "All about turnouts," may help clear up any confusion you have.

Good luck & have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

* There are reasons that you might want to wire your turnouts differently. For instance, if you are using Peco "Insulfrog" turnouts (those with plastic frogs) They come out of the box as "current routing" turnouts. This means that the turnout acts as an electrical switch. Only the track that the turnout is set for has power. The non-selected track will be dead. This can be handy for parking a locomotive on a siding. However some people don't want the current routing feature. They disable it by using plastic, insulated, rail joiners on the two short rails coming out of the frog. Then they add feeders to the track beyond those insulated joiners, so that both tracks are always powered. 

View attachment All AboutTurnouts rev 4.pdf


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