# Lionel FastTrack electrical problems



## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

Good morning,

I have a Lionel Pennsylvania Flyer set that I pulled out about 3 weeks ago for the Christmas season.

I've added track to the original set and now run an inner loop in O-36, and outer loop in O-48 and have 4 remote switches connecting it all.

Problem I've been having is that when the train goes over the switches it has suddenly started losing power. The train ran flawlessly for the first 2 weeks, and this problem popped up over the past week.

I have all of my track wired to terminal blocks with 6 different feeders going to various points on both the inner and out loop. A quick check with the voltmeter showed 12V to the hot rail (shouldn't this be 15.8-18V?).

Also a continuity check on all rails gave solid contact at all points.

Question is, do I have a bad transformer since I only have 12V on the hot rail, and would that drop in voltage cause the problem I have of the train dying over switches?

Only other culprit I could think of is that I had to disassemble the train due to the smoker not working. Fixed the smoker, but is it possible I didn't put the train back together exactly and the center contact wheels aren't lining up correctly over the switches?

Thanks for any help! Getting a tree on Friday and I'd like to have the train 100% before a tree goes on the platform!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You need to first do a through cleaning of the rails and the wheels and rollers on the locomotive, see if that helps.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

Thx john, thats part of my plan for tonight. Also going to double check all switch wiring tonight.

Still think the 12v reading is suspect but I'm all for trying the free and easy solutions first!


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## FM Trainmaster (Nov 13, 2013)

I only know the vintage rails and tracks, but I could swear I was just reading about a fatal flaw in the design of the FastTrack (or was that RealTrax?) switches, with a short circuit problem that inevitably blows out a trace on an internal circuit board.

In any case, you're first step would be to check loaded voltage. That will nail down your problem. Put train on track, run it over the switch. When it dies there, keep power applied and check the following:

1. Voltage at transformer
2. Voltage at segment of track feeding the switch
3. Voltage at the switch itself (if you can get probes onto that segment of track with the train on it)


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

FM Trainmaster said:


> I only know the vintage rails and tracks, but I could swear I was just reading about a fatal flaw in the design of the FastTrack (or was that RealTrax?) switches, with a short circuit problem that inevitably blows out a trace on an internal circuit board.
> 
> In any case, you're first step would be to check loaded voltage. That will nail down your problem. Put train on track, run it over the switch. When it dies there, keep power applied and check the following:
> 
> ...



Fair enough. BTW, cleaned tracks and train before I performed the voltage test. Didn't solve the problem, but everythings clean 

Ran 2 different tests, one with power at 60% so the train would die quicker. When the train died on the switch:

1. 10V at transformer
2. 10V at track feeding switch
3. 10V at the switch itself
4. 10V at track after switch.

Then also ran it at 100% throttle and it took longer to die, momentum carries the train over the spot where it's dying.

1. 12V at transformer
2. 12V at track feeding
3. 12V at the switch
4. 12V at track after switch.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There are certain locomotives with the pickups spaced where they will have problems on switches. I have several that have issues on switches, nature of the beast. For steamers, I put a pickup on the tender, for diesels I see if I can fit a double roller pickup one one or both pickup locations.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

John,

Sounds reasonable enough. Since I have a steamer, do you have a link or directions to adding a pickup to the tender? 

I could probably trial and error my way to accomplishing it, but if there's info or a tutorial available it's that much easier.

...and I assume with a pickup on the tender there's enough spacing that the locomotive would never be without a powered rail contact (at least I would hope so).


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't have a tutorial, but I can tell you how I normally do it.

Most tender trucks on the stuff I run are designed to host a pickup, they just don't install them unless their specifications call for it. I just buy the parts required and install them. Then I run the pickup and outside rail wires to the locomotive to combine the power. Many times, locomotives with a tether already have the power wires in the tether. Finally, I usually put a PTC (resettable fuse) in the hot line to protect the tether wiring from a short circuit if you have a derailment.

For diesels, here's my preferred solution.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

So on my PA Flyer already has a pickup on the tender. I really just need to run the wires to the locomotive so the circuit is complete?

If so seems like an easy enough task. The pickup that's there should be supplying power to the whistle in the tender. It won't cause any problems linking that power to my loco?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nope, the power all comes from the same place, so it's already connected at the track.  Like I said, I use a PTC to protect the tether wires, other than that, it's just connect the wires.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

Seems simple enough. Wish I had done this in the first place rather than the mess of an electrical diagnosis I did.

Well on the bright side I probably have the cleanest tracks and one heck of a nice blocked out and fused electrical setup. Just wish I could have the 3 days of work back and just added this pickup 

Important thing is this will be 100% operational for Christmas tree day on Friday. 

Thanks John.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the _*Red Herring*_ here was your statement that it used to work fine. If the same switches worked perfectly with the locomotive, it shouldn't suddenly develop a spacing issue. Both dirty tracks/wheels & rollers and roller spacing are common issues going across switches. If one doesn't do it, the other one will.

Cleaning the tracks is always a good idea, so you didn't lose anything.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

Well it may make some sense if we take into account that it's a 5x8' plywood train board that allows the train to go around our tree. In transport each year maybe it warped the wood a little and created just a tiny dip that the contacts can't reach?

Red herring may also be explained by a certain 2 year old who has an aptitude at running trains and turning switches, but also believes he should be allowed to walk across the board.

OK maybe I should of led with the 2 year old detail 

I try not to mention a 2 year old boy because you can't really account for what he may have done to an electrical system. Apple juice, maple syrup on a waffle... all these have led to electrical problems at various times over the past year.

Thanks for your help, I think the extra pickup roller is the answer and we'll be all set for Christmas!!!


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

One good thing about this ordeal. 

I went' to B&E Junction in York, PA to ask the owner what he thought the problem may be. Great little local shop that introduced me to Candy Cane scented smoke for trains! Adds an extra dimension to our Christmas layout this year.

He also had the 2013 Lionel Christmas Boxcar which has a decent photo of a train in a wintry storm and my little guy has already fallen in love with it! Overall a great trip to a local shop and with the help on these forums I have an answer to my train problems!

Thanks again John!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The low voltage (12 volts) you are getting may be a problem with the meter due to the waveform coming out of the transformer. No all meters will read a non-sinusoidal wave form correctly.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

servoguy said:


> The low voltage (12 volts) you are getting may be a problem with the meter due to the waveform coming out of the transformer. No all meters will read a non-sinusoidal wave form correctly.


Yes thought about that. However, from what I researched if my meter was the other type it should be around 15.8V, not down at 12V. Either way it reads the voltage my reading seemed low.

Gonna rig up a new connection to the pickup wheel tomorrow morning and that should solve the problem though.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I wouldn't worry much about the voltage reading unless the train runs too slowly at full throttle. As Bruce says, you don't always get true readings, depending on the specific transformer and how the voltage is controlled.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

Train doesn't run slow at full throttle, but there doesn't seem to be enough juice to run full throttle and blow a whistle. Maybe that's normal? I don't know as this is the only train I've owned.

Good news on the train front though, I decided to pick up a beautiful brand new Lionel K4 #1361!!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The post war transformers boosted the voltage to the track when the whistle control was operated. This was to supply the additional power required by the whistle motor. The CW-80 doesn't do that as the modern electronic whistles don't use much power. A whistle tender with a motor isn't really compatible with a modern transformer.


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## slw2206 (Nov 26, 2013)

Good to know, thx servo.

Probably will be a non issue with the k4. Railsounds and all these other features. Ill have to start learning what doors are opened with this new locomotive!


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