# Want to start over



## Hutch

I just got into trains in December after I decided I no longer wanted my layout to go away after Christmas. I've learned a lot along the way and know I can do a lot better than this.








I have decided to use the entire room because trains are just too much fun. This was a workshop and I just need to move the big stuff out to the other section of my garage. This will give me this room.








This time I don't want any gates so it will be an elongated C shape. I have 6 turnouts shown on the first layout that I want to start with. I want to add some switch panels for manual control. After setting up a PC and running my trains and switches from JMRI PanelPro and Android phone throttles, I found I really don't like all that PC stuff and would like to get back to real switches on a panel and plugged in throttles that don't get interrupted by phone calls

So I'm looking for input from you guys. It's an HO layout controlled by MERG CanCmd which is a kit I built thaty works really well. I also use the MERG CBUS for controlling my Tortoise switches. These curcuits can be used with or without a PC. I like the PC for programming my decoders but that's about the end of it. Tired of looking at the PC instead of my trains.


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## DonR

Hutch

Looks like a great layout for continuous train running with all
sorts of different routes. Since you don't seem to be
a newbie, I guess you know you have a reverse loop that
will need a reverse loop controller to avoid shorting. 

You have a lot of room where you could build a yard and
more industry spurs that might add some
operational fun. 

Don


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## Hutch

Thanks Don. I have control over the reverse loop so that's not an issue. I want to do away with this gate.







I'd like to be able to get at everything without lifting or opening a gate so I need to change that portion of the layout anyway. I think I might like to have the reverse loop at the other end where there's mor room.


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## Brakeman Jake

Well,you're not alone thinking this way.Outside the challenge of setting it up working properly,I don't see much fun in having a computer operating my layout either.

Ideas...well...let's see...
One way to an "around the room" layout without a gate is to build high enough so you can access by going under it.An undesirable solution indeed and most modellers will tell you that while a "duckunder" design may fill the bill,aging will eventually make it an unpleasant feature.

Then you have the "island" type layout...no gate...but a huge waste of space as you have to keep walking space on at least three sides.However,since you can reach from all sides,you can build fairly wide (60" or so) and still be comfortable working on it,that is if your space allows it.

What I think should be a good choice is an "dogbone" style layout (elongated C shape sounds nice) with bulbs at both ends to allow turning trains around for continuous running.

There are as many ideas as there are modellers so feel free to ask on this forum,you'll likely get great suggestions.One very nice way to do is to have a preliminary drawing to post so the guys can have their gears going,and then improve on it.


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## Hutch

I thought I posted this but it didn't show up for some reason. Oh well, here it is again. First pass at filling the room. Jake, this a walled room right up to the layout so walking around it isn't an option. I think I need to increase the track spacing in some places. After doing some research I found 2 inches might be too little on the inner 18" radii. I also need to figure where to use my 6 turnouts plus include things to add as money becomes available. The more turnouts the happier I am but the price of them slows me down a bit.hwell:


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## Brakeman Jake

This is pretty much what I had in mind,a good starting point indeed.If you want more info on clearances,radiuses,etc.,just visit the "NMRA" website,you'll find everything you want to know about general practices and even specific cases.


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## Hutch

Now I have some spacing and interest but some long reaches. I'm either going to use crossings or overpasses. That's it for my lunch time Xtrkcad for today. Back to work.


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## Hutch

I think I need a book of layouts to read. Any suggestions?


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## Brakeman Jake

Wether you'll like this design or not depends on what you'd like you trains to do.If you think you might enjoy having two trains running all by themselves without supervision,you will not be happy with crossings nor the mandatory return loops.
Then if you think you'll eventually like "armchair rairoading",you'll need to have tunnels,overpass,bridges,etc. wich will bring another problem.The recommended climb to not exceed is 2% (2" rise for 100" roll),3% is pushing it and 4% is pretty steep for a train to climb.And this is for straight trackage.If you compound curves into this,a 2% rise quickly becomes a 3 or 4% depending how tight the curves are.Just my two cents...


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## DonR

Hutch

There's another factor that you have mentioned.  You, at this
point, only have 6 turnouts to work with. As drawn you have
used a left and a right for your 2 reverse loops. You surely
want to connect your two tracks with a crossover...that would
be 2 lefts (or 2 rights)...it should actually be
be a double crossover and that would mean 2 rights and 2
lefts and that uses up your turnout stock.

in your latest drawing, I can see all sorts of interesting scenic possibilities considering the outer track is elevated in each of its S curves crossing
over the other track. You would
need the crossover at a level point...that's possible in the lower center.
But, as Jake pointed out, you'll need a little more than 8'
of track UP and another 8' down. You could do that with one
curve at each end of the layout.

Thoughts: 

Any possibility of bringing back a 'gate' in front of the door? That
would make things a lot easier for you. Or, build the table to
a reasonably high level to afford a stoop rather than a crawl
under (as I do  )

What would you think of a single track main as a temporary
answer? When you win the lottery  and can buy a ton of
new turnouts the double track could become a reality again.
That would make it possible to use your 6 turnouts for spurs
and yard tracks.

Don


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## Steve S

Looks like you're going to have some serious reach issues. How 'bout a round-the-walls shelf style layout. You can bridge the doorway with a swing-down board for continuous running. 

Steve S


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## Carl

I think you are well on your way to having a great layout.


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## Hutch

I'm starting to lean towards a gate in front of the door and changing the door to swing out. I just can't make a layout that I like without doing it. At least I'll only need to open the gate when I'm entering and leaving. Also, I want to draw it as if I have more turnouts and insert them as I get them. I need at least one crossing just because. Definitely some raised sections.


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## Hutch

DonR said:


> Hutch
> 
> There's another factor that you have mentioned.  You, at this
> point, only have 6 turnouts to work with. As drawn you have
> used a left and a right for your 2 reverse loops. You surely
> want to connect your two tracks with a crossover...that would
> be 2 lefts (or 2 rights)...it should actually be
> be a double crossover and that would mean 2 rights and 2
> lefts and that uses up your turnout stock.
> 
> in your latest drawing, I can see all sorts of interesting scenic possibilities considering the outer track is elevated in each of its S curves crossing
> over the other track. You would
> need the crossover at a level point...that's possible in the lower center.
> But, as Jake pointed out, you'll need a little more than 8'
> of track UP and another 8' down. You could do that with one
> curve at each end of the layout.
> 
> Thoughts:
> 
> Any possibility of bringing back a 'gate' in front of the door? That
> would make things a lot easier for you. Or, build the table to
> a reasonably high level to afford a stoop rather than a crawl
> under (as I do  )
> What is your distance from the floor? I suppose I could make that the high point of the layout and I only have to duck under to enter and leave. That doesn't sound too bad. I really would like to keep the tracks tied together.
> 
> What would you think of a single track main as a temporary
> answer? When you win the lottery  and can buy a ton of
> new turnouts the double track could become a reality again.
> That would make it possible to use your 6 turnouts for spurs
> and yard tracks.
> Don


That would make it possible to use your 6 turnouts for spurs
and yard tracks.
Sounds like an excellent idea. I'll draw it up and see if I like it. Thanks Don.


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## Brakeman Jake

Layout books suggestions...in order of preference (my opinion though)...
1-John Armstrong's "Track planning for realistic operation" ISBN 0-89024-227-5
2-Linn Westcott's "101 Track Plans for model railroaders" ISBN 978-0-89024-512-5
3-"48 Top-notch Track Plans" ISBN 0-89024-190-2
4-Iain Rice's "Mid-sized and manageable Track Plans" ISBN 0-89024-623-8

I have all four and a few others and they're all great reads.However,John Armstrong's is what I call the bible of model railroading.They're all available on-line through Kalmbach Books.


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## Hutch

This looks pretty boring but with these huge radii I could run any length cars. I guess it'll get more interesting when I add some passing track, yards and spurs. Plus, there's plenty of room for scenery if I ever learn how to do that:laugh: 

Jake, thanks for the book listing. I'm going shopping for those books at my local hobby shops on my lunch break today.


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## DonR

Hutch

Whatever you go with you know that you'll be changing it...even
as you build...and the main thing is that you'll be doing something
that you can enjoy.

In answer to your question, my floor to bottom of table 
clearance is 38". Actually, there's no reason it can't go eve higher to avoid having to worry with a 'bridge'.

If you go with a bridge, there's one thing you should plan on...
a 'deadman' switch which shuts
off power to a section of each bridge track on each side of the bridge.
That'll save your locos from the dive of death.  An observant wife
saved one of my brother's locos that was about to go.  There are many
ways to do that that can be covered if you get there.

Don


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## Hutch

Don, 38" ain't enough for me. That's about what I have now and I hate crawling on my hands and knees. If I could move it up another 6" I could probably bend and walk under it if I make it narrow enough, 2 tracks close together. But that would be 44" + 6 for table and 2" foam bringing it to 50" to the top. This would fine for me but the grandkids already need to stand on stuff to run them. Maybe some pullout steps at the command stations would solve that. They don't spend much with them anyway. It's all about me:laugh:


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## DonR

Hutch

...I'm with you...make it as high as you (and the kids) are
comfortable with.

...When I chose my table clearance I had no bridge so
crawling under was not a factor...but let me tell you...
now it is. hwell:

...Matter of fact, I just plowed ahead and made every mistake in the
book...bad track work...curve radius too tight...tried to
have a dogbone layout with a third reverse loop on a
center peninsula...far too ambitious for space. So ripped out
the center loop, converted it to a nice wye...built the bridge and
replaced the other two reverse loops with a 'follow the wall' single track main. Where the loops were are 2 nice size
yards with a 'passing' track that also crosses the bridge. All that
in an approx 10 X 10 room.

...An old N scale layout of mine had a double track main.  Get's boring
after a while watching the trains go round and round. This time
I went with the single track main intentionally. Makes you actually
run the trains when you have 2 going in opposite directions.
Lotta fun throwing turnouts and controlling the speed and
stops of the trains. I've had as many as 4 running
at the same time...frantic. 

...If only one is running it can go continuous
around the main or take the 'short cut' thru the yards.

...something like that might be the way for you to start. You
have so much more room to do it in too.

Don


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## Hutch

I got the 101 Track Plans and a copy of Model Railroader magazine at the local hobby shop yesterday and I had a lengthy talk with the owner. He started hand drawing layouts for me based on the room size and I left with a different outlook. First thing he told me was to get a stack of paper and just keep drawing. This is probably a quicker way of getting a lot of ideas so I'm going to try that and only use Xtrkcad for the "final" layout.

One thing that stood out from conversation with the owner was the idea that I can have wider shelves on one side of the room than the other as long as I leave 3" feet in the middle for walking. And, the aisle doesn't need to be straight. 

Don, I like your idea for single mains. Probably shouldn't be standing there with my hands in my pockets.

I'm in no hurry to start building this as I have to "make the space" first which will be some considerable work moving benches, tool chests and a few power tools. I'm totally committed to this hobby though. It's the most interesting thing I've done in quite a while. Sooo many things to learn about and skills to build.:thumbsup:


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## DonR

Hutch

Let me throw out another suggestion...having nothing to do
with track layout.

Have you thought about a small workbench?  You are
gonna need it to work on cars...or build trees...or
lube a loco.

Since you are going with a good clearance you could do
as I did...create one on rollers that can be shoved under
the layout.

I had an old roil around TV cart. Removed the existing top,
bolted on 4 1X3s to raise and support the reinstalled top. I attached
a power strip for the lamp and soldering iron. Presto
a workbench. Cheap. 

Other guys get the drawer slides from home store and
hang it from under the table.

Don


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## Hutch

I have been thinking about that a little. Definitely need something to work on that doesn't get in the way. I also want be able to sit at it like a desk so I like the drawer slide idea. I do my best work when I'm comfortable. I also need a place for the pc monitor. It's a small 17" flat screen so it doesn't need much space. Maybe have it pop up somehow when I pull the table out. Or just mount it on the wall above the layout. So many things to think about.



DonR said:


> Hutch
> 
> Let me throw out another suggestion...having nothing to do
> with track layout.
> 
> Have you thought about a small workbench?  You are
> gonna need it to work on cars...or build trees...or
> lube a loco.
> 
> Since you are going with a good clearance you could do
> as I did...create one on rollers that can be shoved under
> the layout.
> 
> I had an old roil around TV cart. Removed the existing top,
> bolted on 4 1X3s to raise and support the reinstalled top. I attached
> a power strip for the lamp and soldering iron. Presto
> a workbench. Cheap.
> 
> Other guys get the drawer slides from home store and
> hang it from under the table.
> 
> Don


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## Hutch

Here's my latest plan. The outer loop rises up from the door to the middle off the opposite wall and comes back down to the door on the inner loop with the option of staying on the outer loop with the double crossover. I'm pretty happy with it so far. I even added a reverse loop and a place for a bridge. I think I can add some tunnel here and there also. I'm not sure how to draw them. Except for the reverse loop section I went with 4" or larger radius. 

See any problems?


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## The New Guy

This seems like a lot of empty space - looks like a good place to put a wide island - the end of the line...lots of possibilities here.


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## Hutch

That's a great idea. I had been looking at that space and trying to use it for main line. Never dawned on me to do what you suggested.
Thanks


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## michelle

I like that plan there the island would be a nice place for a yard. Give me something to think able for my layout.

I have to look up xtrackcad might be better then anyrail.


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## Hutch

I've switched to Scarm now. Here's the new start over:laugh: The second image shows the layout without the foam. I still need to add the benchwork and yards. I love how easy it is to add tunnels and bridges. Connecting flex track took quite a while to master but worth the effort. I love the 3D view. It shows if I had any elvation problems and I could just go right to the spot anf fix it. XtrkCad was good but this is much better.














Here's the actual drawing showing my origiional baseboard which I plan to keep.


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## Hutch

I have a couple of new ideas and I'd like to share them and get some feedback. Since picture are worth a thousand words, here ya go.
Ducking







No ducking


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## Hutch

Fixed a couple of problems on the no duckunder layout. Now I can go to the reverse loop or continue up into the mountains. Also straightened out some Scurves. I'm getting better at using Scarm every day. Still a problem with the reverse loop. Everytime I come out of it I'm sent to the brewery. I'd like to be able to go in the other direction.


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## Hutch

Will this be an electrical Nightmare? I haven't used any crossings before but I think they shouldn't be a problem. the extra turnout at the end of the tunnel which is part of my reversing loop will probably need some special attention.








Here's the layout diagram.


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## DonR

Hutch

You're having too much fun designing your layout. 

It does look better as time passes.

If your crossing diamonds are properly
insulated (plastic) they should present
no special electrical problems. That assumes
they pass the current thru them on each track.
Might want some extra drops in there.

You would want to have your isolated reverse loop
section between the turnout and the crossing.

Haven't used a turntable but it appears you would need
a reverse loop controller for it.

Don


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## Hutch

"You're having too much fun designing your layout."

Don, I am having fun with the design because I can't find the time clean out the room to start building. I need a full day or 2 to pull everything out and reorganize things.

"It does look better as time passes."

Thanks

"If your crossing diamonds are properly
insulated (plastic) they should present
no special electrical problems. That assumes
they pass the current thru them on each track.
Might want some extra drops in there."

I haven't even looked at one yet and I don't have a clue how they work. There must be some eclectric diagrams on the web somewhere.

"You would want to have your isolated reverse loop
section between the turnout and the crossing."

Yup.

"Haven't used a turntable but it appears you would need
a reverse loop controller for it."

I'm thinking a simple DPDT switch will do it. I'm not automating it so it's no big deal to do that. I will probably give the turntable a twist with my hand and call it a day at first.

Thank you very much for your input.

So, which layout looks more intersting? I think the one with duck unders. If I go with that one I'll need to raise things up to about 50 inches for ease of ducking. Maybe I need to start a poll


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## Hutch

Here's the latest bit of fun.


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## DonR

Hutch, your'e not just having fun...it looks like you are getting
HIGH  witness the new helix...don't know about that...
it's pretty far up thar. Do they put DCC in remote control planes? 

Don


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## Hutch

So... maybe once around will be enough. It does look kind of silly even for me. But there will nothing prototypical on my layout anyway. It's all about keeping my grandkids interest. Yeah right.


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## ktcards

Is this a train layout or a roller coaster?


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## Hutch

ktcards said:


> Is this a train layout or a roller coaster?


In my brothers words "I'm confused, will the train ride on the roler coaster?"

Everybody I show it to says to go ahead with it so I'm leaning that way. I'll have a lot of fun just building it and I can't wait to get started.


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## Hutch

I hope someones enjoying my thread. I keep getting new ideas and I still haven't made the space to get started. I think it will happen this weekend so I hope this is my last idea for now. This is loosely based on my hometown where trains didn't exist. The closest thing would be the trolley that went from Providence to Rocky Point amusement park, some remnants can still be found in the few wood lots that haven't been turned to homes. This idea has opened up room on the layout for homes, shops and farm land. I still needed a place to park unused trains so I went up at Rocky Point with a 1 level helix and made a place for trains on another level.
Here's a few shots.
Plan View








3D


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## Hutch

Nuther idea. Folded loop going up to the mountains one pass up and one pass down and then a flat inner loop for homes and stuff. I can see bridges over water in a couple of spots. A little over and under and tunnels. My only concern is if all my trains can go up a 2% GRADE EASILY. I'm mostly concerned with the little Lafayette set. I guess I'll have to experiment.


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## Hutch

This is it. I mean it.


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## Hutch

So I've got my layout room almost ready and I hope to start building soon. I've simplified the layout quite a bit and I've decided to use http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1410/page/1 2% 4" riser set to go up and down on the back of my layout. Now I'm having a terrible time making up my mind on baseboard cover. I'm thinking about 2" foam but I think it might be too expensive for this layout. I have some 1/2" that would get me about a 1/3 of the way there. I could double it up and buy some 1" to finish it off.

I have some foam roadbed from my origional layout that is reusable because I never ballasted it and I have some cork that someone gave me. So I can get 150 feet of road bed done for zip. At that point which roadbed to buy to finish becomes another bit of a problem. I only have experience running on the foam and I really liked installing it and the sound level seemd very nice. Don't know what to expect from cork. I guess I can try to get the trains running on the unfinished layout and do a comparison. Thinking out loud again.

Here's the latest drawing. I really think I'm done with that part of the new layout. I'm mostly intereste in watching the trains run and trying my hand at building some nice scenery so no real freight yards, sorry guys.


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## Hutch

Made provisinions for a rollout bench and PC,keyboard and monitor location.


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## Hutch

So far so good but I can't leave it alone so I added an upper loop. These things I'm adding can be built as I find the money. I can choose a small portion of this layout to start with and that's what I plan to do. So here's the latest addition from a few different angles, to the never ending design. It's gonna be great!


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## Hutch

Construction has begun on the bench work. I've decided to build without any plywood, just 2" foam. I can't imagine why I would need the extra layer as the foam is pretty rigid and I don't plan on standing on the layout. 

Here's the planned construction. I was considering using ripped plywood but I have all these 2xs laying around and so far my small 2x3 layout works great. Try to ignore all the ugly dimensions. They're nice and neat when I print hem in sections.


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## Big Ed

What are you a draftsman? 
I like the dimension plan. :thumbsup:


Even though the 2" foam is fairly durable, I would add something like 1/4" plywood underneath.
One wrong move/slip/lean etc and your going through the foam.

How much will it cost you, not that much?
Your going to be carving for water too? The plywood will provide a base for your water.

I say go with plywood or something similar, even at 1/8" is better then nothing.
It is added insurance. 

Look for a house around you that is under construction, a lot of times they toss scraps and will gladly let you have them. 
Especially if it is a hot day and you show up with a nice cold 6 pack. :smokin:


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## Hutch

It's not that I can't afford it it's just that it's a bunch of extra work that seems pointless considering how rigid the 2" foam is. I'll continue to consider it on your recommendation.

Thanks for your input Big Ed.

Yeah there will be some water, a pond and streams.

I'm not a draftsman but a guy that used be a shipfitter at Electric Boat. So I'm pretty comfortable with drawings and I like to use Sketchup for all my woodworking projects. The down side to it is that I spend way to much time drawing when I should be building.hwell:





big ed said:


> What are you a draftsman?
> I like the dimension plan. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Even though the 2" foam is fairly durable, I would add something like 1/4" plywood underneath.
> One wrong move/slip/lean etc and your going through the foam.
> 
> How much will it cost you, not that much?
> Your going to be carving for water too? The plywood will provide a base for your water.
> 
> I say go with plywood or something similar, even at 1/8" is better then nothing.
> It is added insurance.
> 
> Look for a house around you that is under construction, a lot of times they toss scraps and will gladly let you have them.
> Especially if it is a hot day and you show up with a nice cold 6 pack. :smokin:


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## Big Ed

Maybe just add some firing strips of wood, something like this on the larger spans?












Your probably right, just over kill.


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## Hutch

Once I get the structure built, I'll just lay the foam on and find out first hand how durable it is. I don't see any reason for ever leaning on this as I've made everything within easy reach for working on it. It just needs to hold trains. Maybe I'll need to put signs up for guests.


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## gunrunnerjohn

It looks great, but I have to go with Ed on the plywood recommendation. Even 1/4" plywood would be a significant safety net. The amount of extra work to add the plywood would seem to pale in comparison to the total effort of building the benchwork.


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## Hutch

Oh alright.:laugh: I'll get some 3/8" ply, that's what I had on my original layout. Maybe I can reuse some of that. Again, thanks for your advice. I'm sure you know more about it than I do. I'm still a beginner.


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## gunrunnerjohn

No reason you can't reuse the old stuff, even some piecing together under there will work fine, you won't be seeing it.


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## Big Ed

I was thinking if it was me doing it, I would probably forget and lean on it at some point and break it. 
More support just in case you forget and lean on the wrong spot and then crunch the foam breaks. 

Around the curved parts just lay some panels of wood over the top and cut it out following the frame work as a guide with a jigsaw. Instead of trying to measure and cut. It will be easier that way. You will get a nice clean match/cut that way.
The square sections are easy enough just to measure and cut and piece them in.


By all means use what you have your not going to see the wood anyway.

I will have to admit that the 2" foam is fairly strong.


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## Gansett

3/8's ply is $16.62
7/16's OSB IS $9.92
Got the prices from Lowe's on-line

I'd use whatever ply I could from the previous layout and use OSB if I ran short.


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## Hutch

Got a little done in spite of the heat. Have to stop at Lowes on the way home and pick up some more 2Xs. It's going to take a lot of ambition to get anymore done in this heatwave.










Here's the updated plan with easier to read dimensions and some changes to allow for 4X8 sheets of plywood instead of the 2x8 for foam.


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## Hutch

This stuff is plenty rigid on it's own as long as there aren't any long unsupported spans. I'm going sans plywood. I can even lean on it. This only my second attempt at making a layout and as much as I enjoy designing them I'm sure I'll make another after I get bored with this one.










Latest drawings


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## Gansett

Hmm, something looks familiar..


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## Hutch

Is it the clamp? Extension cord? No I'm pretty sure it's the foam I bought from you for an excellent price. Gonna hate buying the rest of it.:laugh:


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## Gansett

No, it's the short 2x cut at 45's in the upper portion. I had one go missing with the exact same
markings..


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## Hutch

:laugh:


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## joed2323

wow, you have one heck of a layout planned. Its been way to hot and nice for me to work on my layout in the basement I havent touched it in a long time, sad, i know!

You have a good idea planned out here, i cant wait to follow along, good job so far


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## Hutch

Thanks. Its going to be real hard to finish in this heat. I think ill install a window next year so I can have ac.


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## wingnut163

put it through the wall. dont need a window. put it high, cold air falls.


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## Hutch

Yes but if I'm going to cut a hole anyway, I'd like to have a window for a little sunshine and fresh air in the good weather. I may consider 2 holes.:dunno:


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## Hutch

Finally got some time to work on this again. I'm ready to glue down some 2" foam onto various sheet goods, plywood, particle board and OSB. If I remember correctly, some folks use Acrylic latex caulking for this. Is this the best way to fasten it down?


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## joed2323

Looking at your previous updated pictures, wondering why you didnt make it a full around the room setup? I see you have a liftup section, why not make it around the whole room with the lift out at the entry of the room? Unless you are going to build a bridge to span the distance of the opening?

Either way, i like the progress your making:thumbsup: geterdone


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## Gansett

Thought it was just latex caulk used? Not anything with acrylic.


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## Hutch

joed2323 said:


> Looking at your previous updated pictures, wondering why you didnt make it a full around the room setup? I see you have a liftup section, why not make it around the whole room with the lift out at the entry of the room? Unless you are going to build a bridge to span the distance of the opening?
> 
> Either way, i like the progress your making:thumbsup: geterdone


Yeah, the updates never stop:laugh: I've even switched back to XtraCad because I wanted to use the existing layout as part of the new instead of ripping out perfectly good benchwork. So here's the latest to go with what you see in the photos. I wonder if I don't have too much track not leaving enough room for houses and scenery. I guess I can remove some if I need to.


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## Hutch

JackC said:


> Thought it was just latex caulk used? Not anything with acrylic.


I wonder where I heard that. Oh well, I have the acrylic so I'll give it a try. I was also thinking if it doesn't hold, I could just add some screws and fender washers in some out of the way places.


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## Hutch

*Throwbar interferance*

I have a throw bar on one turnout that needs to be cut or reversed. These are Atlas turnouts. Can the be reversed?


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## Hutch

I can't decide whether to print out full scale or just try to follow the diagram. I started this by just looking at the picture. If I continue this way, I need to mark it and remove it to put down the road bed. If I put the full scale drawing down and lay the track on it, how do I remove the paper? Maybe I should just glue the paper down and leave it and scenic over it.  Ideas please?


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## Hutch

Nobody? I saw the Woodland Scenic's video and they seemed to be building right on top of a printout. 

I tried just laying the track by looking at a small printout but really, after all the work I did to insure the minimum radius was 24", I don't want to screw this up.


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## Hutch

I think I know what I'm going to do. Pin down the paper and cut out the track with a razor, glue the roadbed into the cutouts and remove the paper. Unless I hear of a better way.


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## DonR

Hutch

Lookin good.

Did you resolve your question on the Atlas throw bar move?

Are you using under the table machine or side mounted?

If under the table, you can just cut off the throwbar exrtension
and use the hole in the remaining bar for the under table motor.

Can you still buy carbon paper? I still have some from 20
years ago. You could trace right onto the foam.

Or since the drawing paper has squares on it could they be used to scale it?
That's essentially what I did.

Don


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## Hutch

Thanks Don. I might have this done by Christmas:laugh:

Snipped off the throw bars. I'm using all under table motors in that area. 

I've never found carbon paper in any stores around here. 

The squares would probably get me close enough and that might be the easiest way but I _have_ this giant printout that my brother was kind enough to make for me at his office. He's a CAD engineer.

My options

Pin down the paper and roadbed, cutaway the paper and outline the roadbed and remove the paper and reinstall the roadbed.
Pin down the paper and punch holes with an awl and push a sharpie through them and remove the paper

Number 2 is sounding the most promising.

I'm surprised I haven't gotten a lot of replies to this question. Maybe I'm being to anal.hwell:


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## Hutch

Tracks are going down. Finally got 6 of the 7 tortoises installed. I'm saving one for the other side where the reach might be to much. I want to install manual switches for all the others for now anyway. Tortoises are wonderful but too pricey for my budget right now. Anyway, here's what I got done today. Actually I got more than that but I forgot to take pictures.
























It's almost time to buy more foam.


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## Hutch

I bought some more foam and started laying some inclines and roadbed on the other end of my layout. I guess I should have gone to HD to get matching foam. Now I have some pink and some green with different edges. Oh well, I made it work. I'll have to pick up some more flextrack on Tuesday. Anyway here,s what I got done.
























The signs a little short for a train to go under.:laugh:


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## DonR

Hutch

How about a little mossy mounds to support the bases of your ROCK POINT sign.
That is, unless it's involved with the Government shutdown. 

A cheap suggestion also...get a 8.89 roll of blue sky/white clouds paper 
that will go along your walls to give your layout additional depth. I'm about
to do the same. It's 12 feet long but more than a yard wide. I'm going to
cut it into 3 sections to achieve 36 feet. I'll attach it to my room walls with
the Scotch removable dots. It's the right time for you to do it...I didn't know
about the stuff til recently so I'm going to have to work over a lot of
buildings and the like.

Don


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## Hutch

Great! Where can I get it?


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## Gansett

Nice work Hutch


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## Hutch

Jack all I did was go into the store with my wife. Once she spotted it we wer'nt leaving the store without it. Looks like I have to add a lot of overgrown bushes and such! It will probably be the only real looking peice on the layout. After all, I'm running trains around the outside of the park as opposed to cars. I have enough room inside the loop for the rocky Point train to run round and round and I can use up some of my 18" curves for it.


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## Hutch

A little sorry I went with an incline on my outer loop. I finally got a chance to run some trains and I quickly found out I'm going to need to double up on my steam engines if I want to haul more than a handful of cars. It's only 2% on 30" curves.


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## wvgca

two percent is fairly steep if you want more than six or eight cars behind the loco..some can have traction tires installed, or you could try bullfrog snot, i havent...
on my layout four to six logging or mining cars are enough, behind a climax or heisler, and for my 1890 era, its all good...most of mine is 2.2 percent


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## Hutch

My smallest steam engine can only haul 1 car. I'll have to add some weights to it but I'm not sure where to put them. I was pretty sure this one would give me trouble. It can hardly hand a bump.


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## DonR

Very interesting loco Hutch.

Is it HO?

Also, I don't recognize the track. It seems to have
metal clamps of some sort holding the rail to the
ties.

Don


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## Hutch

It's HO but the loco is about half the size of my others. It came with a Bachmann set I bought for Christmas one year. It's what got me started. I've dcc'ed it.

The track is brass flex-track I bought at a flea market. It works well for displaying my trains at work while I'm upgrading them on my lunch breaks.


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## Hutch

I bought the track to complete the loop so I hope to have all the track work done soon. Doing the rip up to repair the curves was painful as I had used way too much glue. My new method for laying roadbed is to just put on with foam nails and then add the track using more foam nails. when it's right, I put a drop of white glue between the ties where a nail would normally go. The next day I can remove almost all of the nails except a few that are keeping the roadbed in place at joints. Now I can just put a little hot glue here and there to hold the roadbed where it wants to stick out a little. This will be much easier to rip up later if I want to change it, _when I want to change it_. I don't have any plans of ballasting, it's way too permanent. After changing from foam roadbed to cork, I find it looks great just as it is.


Always learning something new in this hobby.


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## mikek

*Switch and turnout kits*

How many builders have to make custom switches and turnouts? I see some layouts that are complicated. I'm watching some parts on e-bay, wonder if they are worth getting. I'm not building track, just looking at collecting enough bits here and there to offer to someone as a package, avoiding all the shipping and searching. I have a fair amount already, but not many swivels and frogs. These look nice, swivel and frog together, good for a turnout.


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