# Trying to get my old set to run



## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

Hi all,

I recently got my old set from my parents and I'm trying to get it up in running I think it's 0-27. It's been out of operation for over 10yrs and I don't really remember how exactly it worked. It's a Lionel set that has a old 40660 transformer and I was also given a MRC Tech II Railmaster 2400 right before we ended up moving. I don't remember ever getting it to work and I can't remember way.

Anyway, I just have a small oval set up and I'm trying to get it to go but I'm not having any luck. The railmaster is showing overload when I try to use that and the small lionel transformer isn't doing anything as well. It looks like everything could use a cleaning so maybe I'll try some steel wool. I guess the other thing is that the caboose might not be working but I don't know how to check. Here is a picture hopefully I got the names right. Thanks for any help! 
http://imgur.com/MWpV3


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Typpeo,

I hope we can help a bit, but first, ya' gotta downsize your photos, and try to crisp them up a bit ... hard to see!

I may be wrong about this, but ...

I'm pretty sure that Tech transformer you have is DC output (for HO trains). That's not what you want to use for your Lionel. Lionels run on AC power, not DC.

And, when you hook up an AC transformer, you need to run one wire to the center rail, and another wire to one (only) of the outer rails. Are you doing that?

Can you confirm if the Lionel transformer is kicking out voltage OK? Does any light on the locomotive light up? Do you have a multimeter to check the output voltage?

I suspect your problem lies somewhere in the above.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It helps too to have the lockon with the wires hooked to the track.

Some of those transformers have AC TJ

And WOW the picture is way to big.

Whoops I now see wires hooked up....somehow, it looks like they are hook to a gyrotop.


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## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

Sorry about that, not sure why it got hosted that way, I changed it to the hosting site link instead of embedding it.

In any case, that kind of sucks about the transformer, not sure why they didn't tell me that when I bought that 10-15 years ok. 
Oh well.

I just had the wires laying out so you could see what I was dealing with. I will try and take some proper picks later on, I have a multimeter. I'll try and see if I can find out if anything is coming out of it. Thanks guys.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Typpeo,

One other quick tip if you delve into any cleaning. Do NOT use steel wool. The little metal fibers will break off and get sucked into the motor reaking havoc with the electromagnets.

On track, use ScotchBrite pads along with some GooGone or WD-40 if they're rather rusty.

On the loco (wheels, gears, brushes, armature), use GooGone via Q-tips, pipe cleaners, and the like.

TJ


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## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

So it looks like the transformer is working, I'm getting about 17 volts(i think it's volts) when I go to full power and -16 when full reverse. I'll try checking my connections and see if anything is loss on the track. Is there a way to check and see if the actual track has power?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

typpeo said:


> So it looks like the transformer is working, I'm getting about 17 volts(i think it's volts) when I go to full power and -16 when full reverse. I'll try checking my connections and see if anything is loss on the track. Is there a way to check and see if the actual track has power?



Did you find out if the transformer is AC (alternating current) or DC (direct current)?

Some of the Techs are AC I couldn't see in your picture.

Just use a test light to check for power,










Though one of these would be better if you know how to use it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

First you need to determine whether your loco is AC or DC. Most Lionel locos are AC, but not all. The AC locos will run just fine on DC. However, if you try to run a DC loco on AC you will create smoke, and it won't be coming from the smoke unit but from the motor. Next question, are either one of your transformers DC? And what is the wattage or how many amps is the transformer rated at? You mentioned that one of the transformers gave you +17 volts and -16 volts. This is a DC power supply which may be for your loco or it may be for an HO train. The HO power supplies are usually not large enough to run a Lionel loco. Can you give us the number on the side of the loco? That will allow us to determine whether it is AC or DC. 

DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL TO CLEAN TRACK OR ANYTHING ELSE ASSOCIATED WITH TOY TRAINS. 

Lube the engine before you run it. I use 5W-20 motor oil. You can use a toothpick or paper clip to put a drop or two on every bearing, on the gear teeth, on the swivels for the leading and trailing truck. If it turns or slides, lube it. Make sure you lube the armature shaft and any idler gears. I also lube the wheels on the cars if they are the post war steel wheels. The newer wheels with the needle point bearings don't need lube.

Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good point, Bruce ... +17 volts / -16 volts sounds DC output to me, too.

Gotta get the loco i.d. and whether AC or DC setup, as you say.

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have the Lionel 4660 not a 40660. It's a DC transformer. Just use search.


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## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

It is a DC transformer, I decided to just try and work on that to see if I could get that to work. It is giving me juice so I know that is working but I'm not getting any movement from it at all. I still need to check the track connections to make sure that is all situated. And yes it is 4660 it was a typo, hence the name.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am curious of the engine number.
The track lock on may be rusty.
Just take the leads and directly touch the motor to see if it works.

Then add a few track sections at a time and run the engine to see if a track section is the problem.


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## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

The engine number is 8625.

I took the engine top off and connected the power right to the motor and I was able to get it to run. I then made the track to be just a circle and I was able to get it to move a bit but it looks like the track must be too rusty to properly keep a full charge around the track. I will try cleaning the track and see if that helps. Thanks everyone.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd still be taking a close look at the engine. Having the motor run off the track and having it run properly on the track are totally different. I've seen stuff that I bench test fine, but put it on the track and it barely runs. Usually cleaning and lubing will get a reluctant engine running if it "sorta" runs.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Cleaning the wheels will help too. You don't have a lot of power so keeping the track small will help. When you see improvement you can add more.


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## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

Thanks guys!

If I wanted to increase my power or buy a new engine is that something I could still get? I guess I would be looking for a DC transformer and a lionell 0-27 engine? I just want to make sure I know what I would be looking for if I went to a hobby shop.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For O gauge, you want an A/C transformer. You can usually pick up a transformer pretty cheap on eBay, I've nabbed several old 1033's for $10. A little spit and polish, and they work great.  As far as engines, there are tons of them available as well. You need to decide what you want and a budget, then start looking.

For a small oval of track, almost any transformer should be able to run that engine around fast enough to fall off the tracks. If not, you either have a track connection issue or you need to do some basic maintenance on the engine.


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## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> For O gauge, you want an A/C transformer. You can usually pick up a transformer pretty cheap on eBay, I've nabbed several old 1033's for $10. A little spit and polish, and they work great.  As far as engines, there are tons of them available as well. You need to decide what you want and a budget, then start looking.
> 
> For a small oval of track, almost any transformer should be able to run that engine around fast enough to fall off the tracks. If not, you either have a track connection issue or you need to do some basic maintenance on the engine.


I'm confused, I thought I had a DC transformer? When I connect it to the track I'm using the connection that says DC. The other 2 connections it it says AC for external power.. like lights and what not. Am I totally confusing something?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Gunrunner,

It sounds like he has a DC transformer running a DC Lionel O train from the late 1980's ... that "odd" era in Lionel's history where they were producing DC locos.

Typpeo -- If you want to expand your loco inventory at some point, you'll find that most other Lionel locos are setup for AC power via conventional Lionel AC transformers. As stated above, an AC loco will run on DC power, but you never want to put a DC loco on AC power. So, for your needs, if you get one other AC loco, you can run it on your existing (tiny) DC transformer. But if you're looking to expand more seriously, I'd suggest ditching the tiny DC transformer, getting AC locos and an AC transformer, and shelf the 8625 loco that you have.

(Take all of this with some grain of salt. My understanding of Lionel's odd DC era is a bit fuzzy.)

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A seemingly sweet spot in larger transformers is the KW series, 190 watts and two train controls. On eBay, I see them for $45-65, depending on condition and phase of the moon.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You have to understand, MPC tried to make a DC changeover in the 70's. But it failed. The DC motors are still used today but with converters for AC in the form of an electronic e unit. So AC is King. The selection for DC is limited and you need information to know what an engine is. You can stay with DC it depends what you want to do. For 15 bucks you can convert it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd buy the electronic E-Unit, I picked one up from The Train Tender and I also got the little plastic mounting bracket. Works great, I converted a forward-only loco to proper operation.

8616-055 E-unit mounting bracket LIMITED 1 1.50 1.50
107-100 electronic e-unit(replaces 103-100) 1 15.00 15.00


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## typpeo (Dec 4, 2010)

Well, thanks for everyone's help. My main problem was that I failed to connect transformer to the track correctly. I was connecting it across all 3 rails and not the first and middle. 

All my track pieces need to be cleaned, I did a small section and then connected some of the none cleaned tracks and engine could hardly move against the gunk on the track. I was also able to get my Railmaster to work which is giving me a lot more juice. 

And yea, this is the odd DC era track from the 80s which was causing some of the problem. I did see this same set of sale on ebay in a few places so I might pick it up to have extra parts. Thanks again for all your help. I'll get this bad boy all cleaned up and probably be back with more questions at some point.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback, glad you figured out the issue. There are some oddball items floating around, I've run across a few myself.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

typpeo said:


> Well, thanks for everyone's help. My main problem was that I failed to connect transformer to the track correctly. I was connecting it across all 3 rails and not the first and middle.


Ahem ...



tjcruiser said:


> And, when you hook up an AC transformer, *you need to run one wire to the center rail, and another wire to one (only) of the outer rails. Are you doing that?*




Glad to hear problem solved!

TJ


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