# HO vs N For First Layout



## charliem (Dec 23, 2012)

After almost 40 yrs removed from trains, I'm wanting to get started again with my two grandsons in mind. I've leaning towards a N layout to start, say a "under the Christmas tree" size or 2x4 size. Something that's easily moved. I'm not against a HO but room is a issue right now. And with N i could actually do a couple of different layouts that can be moved. Any thoughts ? Others that had this decision to make?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*N-scale or HO-scale or O-scale?*



charliem said:


> After almost 40 yrs removed from trains, I'm wanting to get started again with my two grandsons in mind. I've leaning towards a N layout to start, say a "under the Christmas tree" size or 2x4 size. Something that's easily moved. I'm not against a HO but room is a issue right now. And with N i could actually do a couple of different layouts that can be moved. Any thoughts ? Others that had this decision to make?


charliem;

You can build a fine layout in any of these scales, however there are a couple of things to consider.

1) your grandson's ages, and dexterity, and likelihood of breaking things.

2) Your own eyesight, and manual dexterity. The smaller the scale, the smaller all the parts, including wheels and track, get.

3) Available space. You say you don't have much. A small scale train can turn around in a smaller space. N-scale's minimum curve radius is about 10" HO-scale's is 18" O-scale's 27" ( I think. If you consider O-scale you can get more accurate info on the O-scale section of this forum.)

If your grandsons are still under eight years old, they may have difficulty getting either N, or HO, on the track. There are ramps made to help make this easier though. O Gage tinplate (like Lionel) is a lot easier for the very young, or very old, to handle.

I started out with an O gage Marx toy train as a young child, went to HO as a teenager, and N as an adult. I'm 68 years old now and still working in N-scale, with no problem.
Ultimately it's up to you, and your grandsons to decide. Have they seen, and held, the N and HO trains that you are considering? That might help decide the scale choice.

As for a portable layout, there are several options. If you know of, or can find a modular model railroad club in your area, that is one good option. N-track is an international organization of N-scale modelers who each build one, or more, sections, or "modules" that can be taken to train shows, and combined into large display layouts. There are similar groups in HO-scale.

You mentioned a Christmas tree layout. That could be built on a piece of extruded foam insulation board. It is strong, and extremely lightweight. You can buy it in sheets from 2'x4' up to 4'x8' at most home improvement stores. This foam can be cut and shaped to form hills and river valleys. It is a good base for a layout. By the way, no train should be set up directly on a floor, especially a carpeted floor. The dust and carpet fibers will get into the loco's gears and damage it. At a minimum, use an old sheet as "snow" between the floor and your train.
Some track is sold with plastic roadbed attached to the bottom. Examples are Kato brand "Unitrack", and Bachman brand "EZ-track". This makes setting up temporary layouts easy. For a permanent layout I would recommend flex track however. The disadvantages of roadbed track are higher price, and being limited to one manufacture's small assortment of track shapes. 
There is a good book I'd like to recommend. It's "Introduction to Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It covers all the essentials of this hobby in easy text and many photos. You can buy it at your local hobby shop, or from https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books 

Hope that helps you;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Our HO Christmas layout is on a piece of plywood about 34" x 48". I used Atlas sectional 15" radius curves and smaller equipment runs perfectly. Uses little room and very reliable.


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## charliem (Dec 23, 2012)

traction fan said:


> charliem;
> 
> You can build a fine layout in any of these scales, however there are a couple of things to consider.
> 
> ...


Excellent points in your reply. The book you recommended I don't currently have, but Amz Prime will be getting an order today. I'm mid 50's and can handle the N scale size. There is a club nearby I've visited a couple of times. And plan on attending my first show in a couple of weeks with them. They have a large HO layout and another large modular one they bring to shows & other functions. But there's a small N track as well where they meet. I'll probably go towards N to start, building a 2x4 layout to get my "feet wet". Then, down the road, I see a larger, more permanent N or HO layout. Again, appreciate the great advice!


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## Tony35 (Mar 18, 2016)

As for the kids being able to handle N scale, not a problem
My 5 and 8 year olds do it with no problems
You just need to remind them they are models not toys



Just make it user friendly for the kids

HTH


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Kids and scale is kind of a hot button topic for me. Obviously, all children are different. The key, as Tony said above, is their ability to understand that they're not dealing with a toy that can be manhandled as they choose (get them their own if they have trouble).

As long as they can understand that, they can handle the smaller scales just fine -- my kids have been handling HO since they were barely out of diapers. They're going to need your supervision and assistance anyway for a little while, maybe until their early teens (or at least tweens).


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

what ever scale you decide on in anything larger than N with your limited space I would think about narrow gauge smaller equipment tighter curves.


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## charliem (Dec 23, 2012)

The grandsons mentioned are young, 2-1/2 and 1. They will ONLY be touching for a good while. But this is just to, hopefully, marvel them for a while until they get older. Then move into running the throttle, push a button here & there, etc all with grandpa's guidance. It has to start somewhere!


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## Tony35 (Mar 18, 2016)

Thats pretty young for any scale 
But sounds like grandpa wont have any problems helping them out and learn


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

As usual TF has given an excellent and full answer. I should mull it over after attending the train shows. Try to resist buying there on impulse. If you don't have space N could well provide the answer. You'd be surprised what you can can with 4x2. and could be portable. I'd advise going with DCC straight off, there's so much more to it. Good opportunity to try them out at the shows. For my two penny's worth NCE PowerCab is a very good easy to use and expandable system.

Have fun.


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## DresdenRail (Apr 22, 2017)

*Kato is good for beginners*

I'm new at this too; I really like the Kato unitrack; you can just play around with it and make layouts in any size and redo them without losing the electrical contact. Also, for 2x4, Kato makes some very sharp curves that will do wonders for that 2 foot width; just understand that some engines won't like the small curves.
Have fun!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

True, but Unitrack, as with all roadbed or sectional track, is ultimately limited by the selection of pieces available. That is why many if not most hobbyists eventually switch to flex track and commercial turnouts, and some go as far as handlaying track.

Also, the desire to change up your layout every so often may mean that you're not satisfied with watching a train go around a loop alll the time, and the best solution for this is to design a layout with more switching and prototypical operations (runarounds, meets, timetables, etc). Also many modelers eventually want to install some kind of scenery, which pretty much requires a fixed track plan.


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