# Anyone using Cobalt switch machines with DCC built in?



## Walman

And if so have you also wired them for toggle switches? The switches work great with DCC no issues but I'd like to connect toggle switches to them as well so they can be operated in either mode. The instructions say it is as easy as using connections 4 & 5 on the switch to connect/operate the switch but I am unclear of what to do with the Rail A and B power. Do I leave them in connection 1 & 2 as I would if just using DCC? Doesn't seem right. Do I route A&B wires to + and - of switch the run those out to switch machine? 

I purchased toggle switches from DCC Concepts, makes of the Cobalt switch machine, that are specifically built for this dual set-up but I can't find a wiring or video instruction other than what I mentioned above. I was hoping someone on here has some experience.

Thank you!

Walman


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## Walman

Well I actually found the following so perhaps I answered my own question. It appears I just add a push button switch as indicated. I guess I'll try it out and see what happens.


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## Walman

Well it was as easy as advertised. With ports 1 & 2 of the Cobalt DCC switch motor connected to Rail A and B of my DCC command station I can open and close the switch with my throttle. Pretty cool. I added a momentary (normally closed) push button switch to connections 4 and 5 and when I push it actuates the switch perfectly. I still have ports 6, 7 and 8 for LED output. I have to get all of my switch motors installed but now I have a clear vision on how to wire up a control panel in the coming weeks so pretty happy.

Walman


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## broox

ooh

interesting.

so you can use a push button/momentary switch AND dcc at the same time. cool.


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## Marionite

*Cobalt vs. Tortoise*

Just wanted to add my experience with both Cobalt and Tortoise switch machines. I am currently building a layout (first time in 35 years!). I have installed several Tortoise machines. I had one very cramped location so I bought some Cobalts. I have now installed eight Cobalts. Here are some of my comparisons.
#1 The Cobalts claim to be quieter. In my experience the noise is much more variable in the Cobalts than in the Tortoises. A couple of my Cobalts may be Infinitesimally quieter than the Tortoise, but most are not and some of the Cobalts sound like rock crushers! 

#2 The Cobalt’s draw about twice as much current which can be a big deal for me. I am driving the actuators with a Digitrax DS64. The DS64 can power two Tortoise on a single output, but two Cobalts is too much current for a single output. Being able to run two Tortoise on a single output is very handy for a two turnout crossover where you always want both turnouts to operate in the same position. You can use a single address and single command to change the crossover state. Can’t do that with the Cobalts.

#3 Cobalt claims they can handle anything up to 12 volts. With my DS64s the voltage delivered to the switch machines is 11.27 vdc. Three of my eight Cobalts have jumped gear teeth. Two of those only made a single pop and then the motor stalled, but one continued to pop and the motor continued to run. I replaced that machine, and then disassembled that Cobalt to see if I could see what was causing the failure. I could not see any gear damage so I reassembled it and it seems to work OK now. Perhaps the case halves were not completely seated. At any rate, I do not believe they should be run at 12 volts as the manufacturer claims. I have installed resistors in my Cobalt leads to keep voltage down to around 9 vdc. 

#4 The Cobalt spring connectors? yeah they are kind of cute, but I find it difficult to believe that any one with the skills necessary to be a model railroader should be afraid of soldering. I am using the card edge connectors (sold by Bill's Trains and Track) which makes everything very easy. Yes you do need to use a little care to insure the connector is centered, but once installed they don't move!

#5 I also like the Tortoise's domestic manufacture vs the Chinese/Australian heritage of the Cobalt. Being able to buy nearly twice as many Tortoise as Cobalt for the same money doesn't hurt either.


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## broox

I've priced up some cobalts over here and they seem to be cheaper than the tortoises. (I seem to recall ~12-15 mark per unit when buying a bulk pack. But that could be wrong) and that was from a brick & mortar too!
Nice points, will keep them in mind when I got around to making some progress on the layout


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## johnfl68

Marionite - Is that the Cobalt Classic that you used?

Any one use the newer Cobalt iP Digital version yet? It seems to have many improvements over the original.

Any one in the US stock the Cobalt iP Digital's? I would like to get one to try out and test before jumping the shark on using these for next layout. I looked at their Dealer listing, but most of the dealers don't seem to stock these in the US. They seem to popular with the European dealers though.

I am working on a new shelf layout around an apartment living room, so the fact that these can be feed and controlled off the DCC Main Track Bus wires is appealing. That will save on turnout controllers and wiring if they work as advertised.

Thanks!

John


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## johnfl68

I got a couple of the Cobalt iP Digital's to test. I ordered them direct from DCC Concepts, it ended up being about $30US each, and they arrived in less than a week. Reasonable when factoring cost of power supply and controller for regular Tortoises for a layout. 

Sound wise, I measured with a SPL Meter at 1 foot away, and they were only about 2-3 dB louder than the Tortoises. Under a bench that wouldn't be too noticeable a difference.

The spring connectors on them seem a bit weak to me, I would much prefer some form of screw terminals. Yes I can solder, but I do automation wiring from time to time, and everything is screw terminals. There are many advantages to doing things that way, but it does add some extra cost, and I understand people try to save money where they can.

I didn't have any issues with them, but only did about 30-40 throws, so I can speak for long term use.

I also got a SMAIL (DCC Tortoise) to check out, about $35US each. They haven't released the version with the screw terminals yet (or at least not at the time I ordered) which should be around $40US each.

Both seemed to work well (Digitrax) and were easy to program, easy to control.

I can't say that I am either for or against the Cobalt iP Digital's right now, as I would like more time using them on a working layout to see how they are after more use. Maybe current versions have been improved upon from the first versions that came out. But I wanted to pass on my first impressions, to add what others are experiencing with them.

Because the layout I am starting has a limited space under track (shelf layout 7' off floor - 3/4" hidden working space below track for wiring), I think I am going to go with 9 gram servos for this project, with the Team Digital SC8 controllers.

John


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## Robert clelland

Marionite said:


> *Cobalt vs. Tortoise*
> 
> Just wanted to add my experience with both Cobalt and Tortoise switch machines. I am currently building a layout (first time in 35 years!). I have installed several Tortoise machines. I had one very cramped location so I bought some Cobalts. I have now installed eight Cobalts. Here are some of my comparisons.
> #1 The Cobalts claim to be quieter. In my experience the noise is much more variable in the Cobalts than in the Tortoises. A couple of my Cobalts may be Infinitesimally quieter than the Tortoise, but most are not and some of the Cobalts sound like rock crushers!
> 
> #2 The Cobalt’s draw about twice as much current which can be a big deal for me. I am driving the actuators with a Digitrax DS64. The DS64 can power two Tortoise on a single output, but two Cobalts is too much current for a single output. Being able to run two Tortoise on a single output is very handy for a two turnout crossover where you always want both turnouts to operate in the same position. You can use a single address and single command to change the crossover state. Can’t do that with the Cobalts.
> 
> #3 Cobalt claims they can handle anything up to 12 volts. With my DS64s the voltage delivered to the switch machines is 11.27 vdc. Three of my eight Cobalts have jumped gear teeth. Two of those only made a single pop and then the motor stalled, but one continued to pop and the motor continued to run. I replaced that machine, and then disassembled that Cobalt to see if I could see what was causing the failure. I could not see any gear damage so I reassembled it and it seems to work OK now. Perhaps the case halves were not completely seated. At any rate, I do not believe they should be run at 12 volts as the manufacturer claims. I have installed resistors in my Cobalt leads to keep voltage down to around 9 vdc.
> 
> #4 The Cobalt spring connectors? yeah they are kind of cute, but I find it difficult to believe that any one with the skills necessary to be a model railroader should be afraid of soldering. I am using the card edge connectors (sold by Bill's Trains and Track) which makes everything very easy. Yes you do need to use a little care to insure the connector is centered, but once installed they don't move!
> 
> #5 I also like the Tortoise's domestic manufacture vs the Chinese/Australian heritage of the Cobalt. Being able to buy nearly twice as many Tortoise as Cobalt for the same money doesn't hurt either.


Good morning

After installing some 80 tortoise machines in the clubs layout [taking out the old telephone relays] we found that tortoise was very reliable, however we did find out that 12 Vdc was a little to strong for the tortoise I built some 9Vdc 4 amp power supply and we found that the tortoise operated more smoothly and eased the strain on the gearing. After a couple of years and when Cobalt got more established in the rail model industry we purchased a six pack of cobalt switch machines. We installed four of the units in new trackwork and that is when we stared to encounter problems. If operated on 12 Vdc we found that the machine clicked in the gearing when the unit reached its end of travel in both directions. We reduced the voltage to 9Vdc and still had the problem. You just couldn't leave the power on so we used momentary switched till we located the problem. I pulled one of the units to pieces and found a few things just not right.
1. The gear teeth were a bit sloppy in the mesh.
2. The face of both halves were not flush causing the teeth of the earing to slip and not mesh.

I then placed both halves on about 140 grit sand paper and levelled both halves, making sure I did not wear down the plastic to much as if you did that then the gears would bind and the you would be in more trouble.. I altered all four cobalt's taking care not to take to much off and then re-assembled them. After taking out the momentary switches and replacing them with DPDT the cobalt's worked fine for a period of time and then the clicking problem came back. We tried reducing the power to 6Vdc but we were not happy with that setting. I then heard that Cobalt were getting a lot of switch machines returned and replaced under the warranty.

I then wrote to Cobalt outlining what have I had found. They thanked me for my input and sent a complimentary six pack plus accessories and said that they were the updated switch machines. However, again after a period of time we encounter the same problem and we replaced these switch machines with tortoise.

Mind you, the Cobalt's are a nicely manufactured piece of equipment, their connections are far better than the tortoise. I have not purchased any of the newer Cobalts to give judgement. I would say by now and after many a complaint from modellers DCC concepts have have rectified the problem . I know many a rail modeller who have Cobalt's and operate them with momentary switches but they should work good with DPDT switches. We don't operate any of the switch machines from directly from DCC and have a separate power supply. a wall wart power supply, 12Vdc at 1 amp will power 30 tortoises.

Cheers Robert
[email protected]


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