# New Guy and another O-Scale Shelf layout



## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

Well been reading and looking at all of the great layouts here on this forum and decided to draw up a Ceiling Layout for my 3 year old son's Polar Express Train. I did it in Microsoft Paint so it's real basic but you can get an idea of what it will look like. Showed them to my wife and surprisingly she loved the idea. (Knew there was a reason I married her LOL). 
The layout of the house has two bedrooms at one end separated by a bathroom. My idea has the track running between the two rooms and bathroom as well as two bridges. Starting in Bedroom #1 it will pass into the closet and then into the Living room crossing a bridge that spans over the fireplace and TV. Then it passes into the laundry room before spanning the hallway over another bridge before entering two closets. From there it would enter Bedroom #2, circling it before enter the small closet. It would then proceed through the bathroom and on into Bedroom #1 again. 

The picture has two tracks shown each with the ability to switch to just one room. My wife and I are thinking about baby #2 and I figure having the ability to keep a noisy train out of a sleeping infants room would be a good idea.
Picture #1 shows the layout. 








Picture #2 shows the Fireplace and TV view from the living room. The gray area is about a 2' deap recessed hole and the bridge would have to span about 60"








The track will have to grade about 6" in height from the height of the door jambs to the top of the TV. This height difference will be carried over to where the tracks intersect i.e. one pair of tracks will be 6" higher than the other. 

I will scratch build the bridges for both the TV and hallway. 

Was thinking one fastrack layout but for the same $$ I could run two standard O gauge tracks. 

Thoughts and recommendations welcome.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Awesome....


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

sstlaure said:


> Awesome....


Thanks. 
Need to measure the rooms for some hard numbers to figure out how much track I need. I get goose bumps just thinking about how cool this is going to be. I have some things on my "honey do" list hat I need to get done before diving into this, but it should keep me motivated to get it done.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That will be VERY cool!


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Get one track up and running to give you a sense of accomplishment then complete the rest.

I'd get the look from my wife if I even suggested this. (I also get the look for my current layout plans so it's not like it mattered much)


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

Thinking about running the track closer to the wall with a little elevation for better visiblity. 

My game plan was to design the shelf and bridges for two tracks and just get one up and running. that way if I find any flaws in my engineering I only have to fix half as much. 

What is everyones thoughts on track. New or maybe ebay. If buying used what should I look out for?


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

Rob Campbell's shelf layout served as inspiration. Mine will be painted white to match my cookie cutter house trim. LOL

What sealed the deal was the comment about the kids going to sleep to the sound of trains.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2735&highlight=scale+shelf+layout
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2995


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, it'll cost a bunch new, I'd consider used and plan on doing some cleaning up. Now's a good time to be looking, later in the year the prices will probably go up as the holidays approach.


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, it'll cost a bunch new, I'd consider used and plan on doing some cleaning up. Now's a good time to be looking, later in the year the prices will probably go up as the holidays approach.


Good point. Was just surfing eBay for some. 

What size curved track should I use to run both tracks with min width in the corners? I know O-27 is pretty tight so I'd like to stay away from that in case I later want to run longer stock.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm doing a slightly more modest ceiling track, and I'm doing a dual-track setup as well. I'm using O42 curves for the track. I didn't find them used, I had to buy the O42 curves. I considered using O31, but decided on a bit larger radius to minimize issues with larger locomotives. 

Here's my plan.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Patz,

Looks like a really exciting and inspired layout. Generally possible, though you might want to consider:

1. examine your walls closely to determine exisiting stud locations, plumbing vent-stack uptake locations, electrical conduit runs, etc. You'll have to work around all of that stuff when determining your actuall through-wall pass-through locations.

2. For a large loop(s) layout, it's common to run multiple sets of power leads to the track and even intervals. This cuts down on track power (resistance) losses. Think about where you can "hide" a chase for those power runs.

3. On your 6" rise grade, what sort of run length are you looking at? If possible, keep grades to less than 2% (grade = rise / run). You can get away with a higher grade if you have a strong loco, not too many cars in tow, etc.

4. Have fun!

TJ


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

TJ 
1. I built the house so I've got the plans and I don't think I'll hAve any issues with this. 
2. Single story house with a big attic to "hide" wires. 
3. I figure between 15 to 20 feet for the grade. More if needed.
4. I already am. Lol


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you do it in 20 feet, you'll have a 2.5% grade. You should also allow for any curves in the run, they'll add to the required grade. Truthfully, I don't see an issue with a 2.5% grade, I think you're fine.


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm doing a slightly more modest ceiling track, and I'm doing a dual-track setup as well. I'm using O42 curves for the track. I didn't find them used, I had to buy the O42 curves. I considered using O31, but decided on a bit larger radius to minimize issues with larger locomotives.
> 
> Here's my plan.


Looks good. Is this a living room/Den? Whats the gray square in the other room that the track is going around? I see it's labeled but I can't make it out.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

The circular area is a helix so he can go from a table level to the around the room track at the ceiling level.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Correct, there's a table with more stuff on it, I was just showing the ceiling track. All the switches there are to allow access from either direction to either track coming up or down the helix.

This is in my basement recroom, actually half the basement room, there's an I-beam that separates the two halves.


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Correct, there's a table with more stuff on it, I was just showing the ceiling track. All the switches there are to allow access from either direction to either track coming up or down the helix.
> 
> This is in my basement recroom, actually half the basement room, there's an I-beam that separates the two halves.


No fancy switches for me. If I want the trains to go the other direction I'll have to pick them up and turn them around. 

I still plan on having an HO layout so I can get fancy with that. This is just for the kid(s) wink, wink. 

Been pondering the controls. First thought is two transformers (CW-80), one for each loop. I've seen people build things that limit the travel of the throttle but I was thinking of dissecting the controller and using a restostat and separate switches for the bell and horn, all mounted into a plate that could be mounted in/on the wall. I'll have to do some more reading up on this. Option A would be easier though.

Starting a new job tomorrow so I'll be pretty busy to start but I plan on surfing eBay for good deals on track. Once I have enough for one loop I'll buy the wood and spend a few weekends getting this done.


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

Anyone have any thoughts on bridges? I have a plan for the one spanning over the TV. But have yet to decide on the style that will span the hallway. 
Pictures would be great and the hallway is about 3.5 to 4' wide. I'll have to scratch make it so I'm really just looking for style.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One thought on the transformers. Depending on how good the power distribution is, you may find out that a speed on one place will be quite different at another. To avoid this, you need multiple drops to the track and good connections between individual track segments. Precise speed control of conventional locomotives is somewhat tricky, the grade greatly complicates that issue.


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> One thought on the transformers. Depending on how good the power distribution is, you may find out that a speed on one place will be quite different at another. To avoid this, you need multiple drops to the track and good connections between individual track segments. Precise speed control of conventional locomotives is somewhat tricky, the grade greatly complicates that issue.


I was thinking multiple drops from the start just because of the size of the loops. Each bedroom is about 10X12, but I think bedroom #1 is a little bigger maybe 11X12. The loop I'm guessing will be over 110' long. Probably going to use the trial and error approach. Set it up and run the train to see where it slows. Adding wire won't be a problem, I plan on running it through the attic.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The grade will complicate things. Running TMCC with cruise control, grades are not an issue, nor is speed control.


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The grade will complicate things. Running TMCC with cruise control, grades are not an issue, nor is speed control.


I was figuring that the trains would slow going up hill and run a little faster going down hill, but I didn;t really think that justified the extra cost for TMCC. A good percent of the grade will be in a closet and you wouldn't really even see that it was going slower. I will look into TMCC as far as cost and flexiblity. Might be nice to have a wireless remote to control the trains from anywhere they may be. 

Thanks for all your input, it's giving me a lot to think about.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Obviously, command/control adds to the cost, but the flexibility in dealing with operation is much better. I've converted a number of non-TMCC engines to TMCC with cruise control and sound, it ends up being about $200/ea to upgrade a conventional engine to TMCC and RailSounds.


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## patzdelsol (Dec 27, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Obviously, command/control adds to the cost, but the flexibility in dealing with operation is much better. I've converted a number of non-TMCC engines to TMCC with cruise control and sound, it ends up being about $200/ea to upgrade a conventional engine to TMCC and RailSounds.


Well already have both engines but $400 isn't to costly. How much for a mid grade controller? and any recommendations?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can get the basic TMCC CAB-1 and command base in the $120-150 range on eBay fairly regularly. If you want to go Legacy or MTH DCC, figure on $300-350 for those.

If you're going to do the TMCC updates to the engines, I'd probably start with the TMCC CAB-1, if you don't have a lot of complexity, it'll probably be more than sufficient. The good part is you can sell the CAB-1/command base and upgrade without losing much or anything, they're still in reasonable demand and Lionel no longer makes them.


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