# Looking for Tips, tricks, and supplies needed for my first layout



## TheNEMOexpress (Oct 13, 2014)

First a little background. I have an early 50's American flyer set from my dad and I was also given a early 50's Lionel set from a good friend. I had them both out and running a few years ago but just in a loop on a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood but they've been in storage for a few years until last week when I decided to get the O gauge out to put around My 10 yo son's Christmas tree. He fell in love with it so I've decided to actually build a layout in the basement. Though it won't be done by Christmas, this is going to be his Christmas present. I ordered him a LionChief Plus GP38 Loco and now its time to get started on the layout. I'm going to use Menard's track. It's not going to be a "model" layout. Just track with different switches and sidings and several operating stations such as barrel loader, cattle coral, operating milk car, log loader and probably some others. I don't have the layout planned out yet but when the track comes in next week, I plan to lay it out on the floor to figure out how I want to do it and then build the platform. It's going to be built in a closet which sounds odd and is going to require some creativity but I think we can end up with a pretty good layout. The walls are studded and sheet rocked but not mudded or finished so I can change up the door locations. The wall where you walk in is a straight wall that is 21' long. The back wall protrudes into the closet on one side so we will end up with a 13' x 5' 8" on part of it and the rest is 8' x 44". The 8' x 44" section will definitely have a dog bone on the end. Until I lay it out on the floor, I can't decide how to do the bigger side. I'm considering putting some kind of half doors or windows on the larger end that are set at the height of the layout and be able to watch from the outside and also be able reach in to the layout. The basement is going to be finished so I need to be able to figure out if I can make something that looks nice and not out of place on the outside. Enough rambling on that part of it, I'm certainly open to any suggestions on how to setup my layout but the main reason for this post is to see what supplies you guys use and where to get them.

I have some 022 and 042 switches. For the 022 switches, I haven't looked into the wiring of them, do I need to use the factory control switches or can I use a regular DPDT switch? Also, I don't think any of mine have the constant external power post or whatever it's called. Is there some where that sells those? These also need to be rewired, I think I remember seeing that people use 22 awg flat wire? or is it 20 awg? Say I have a switch 15 ft from the transformer, is the flat wire big enough to feed the switch? Or do most people use some other type of wire?

I have a ZW transformer and plan to run a bus wire around to feed the track. I assume I need to run a hot and neutral to connect at each connection point? How are most of you splicing into the bus wire? Strip and solder, cut and hook into a terminal strip or some other way? I plan on 14 awg for the bus. What size wire should i use for my short feeders going to the track connections? For powering my switches and operating accessories, can I get by with one circuit running off of the transformer for the constant power? In my head, I cant think of a time when I will have multiple accessories running at once. I'm hoping I can run the 022 switches with regular toggle switches and I think I want to have a control panel that controls all switches and operating accessories from one spot by the transformer.

Thanks for any advise. I'd like to go ahead and order the wire and most of what I need so anything you guys can think of that I should have on hand, I would appreciate it. Also tips on what colors or how many different colors of wire and what sizes you use would be great. I was thinking for 14 awg I would use black for track power, white for ground and then some other colors for operationg accessories and track sections. What size wire do I need for decoupling/operating track sections? 

Thanks for any advise.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Ok. Not sure why nobody has responded yet. THere's far more qualified than me but here goes ... based on my experience dusting off by prewar and postwar trains. Here's my advice:

Don't expect to get it right the first time. Expect to do a layout, learn and after enjoying it, re-do it. Plywood isn't the best surface but it is the easiest. If you use it, you will learn about noise (especially if used in combination with noisy track). Research here will lead you to other techniques for table top. Don't over engineer your benchwork with lots of 2x lumber. Use it sparingly. In the main consider 3/4" lumber for benchwork. Your back will appreciate it.

Track is really really important. Not only does it affect noise, it affects electrical continuity/efficiency which translates to reliability. I had sooo many problems using my 1960's era O-27 that went away when I switched to Atlas-O. And the noise reduction was stunning. Choose your track wisely now. The more you buy now, the harder it will be to throw it away to transition to a better one. Read the many discussions about it in this forum.

20-22ga wire is fine for your spider feeds. I use a terminal block from the main transformer feed. I recommend getting the colored twisted pair to keep your pos/neg straight. It will prevent lots of headaches diagnosing problems.

You have tremendous resources here from folks that have been down the same path. Use search heavily. My rule of thumb for track power which I picked up here is to have a feed for every 6' of track. Each power block of track gets its own power tap and is separated from the adjacent block with insulator pins/connectors. But you MUST be consistent in which rail is positive and which is negative. Never violate this. You're welcome.

I'd run switches off of constant power.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You may find 18 gauge "Bell" wire at the big box stores easier to find.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

It's true, 18 gauge Bell, lamp and zip cord is easily available. Long ago an electrician showed me that when you split the two wires apart, one is round and the other is square. It's a trick to keep your positive and negative squared up when the wires are the same color.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

TheNEMO...

You didn't mention is your train American Flyer 3 rail or 2 rail?

Do NOT use DPDT toggle switches for your turnouts...they would burn out
the solenoid coils. Use small momentary push buttons, one for each straight, the other for each divert.
They would be powered by the ACC (constant voltage) terminals on your transformer..

Perhaps the easiest way to attach your track drops to the bus is to use
the 'suitcase' connectors...they eliminate cutting the bus and soldering....They're available in a variety of sizes at
big box stores.


Don


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## TheNEMOexpress (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks everyone, ErnestHouse mentioned spider feeds, is that referring to the wires going to the switches or the short feeder wires from bus wire to track power? What size wire do you guys recommend to go from my 14 ga bus wire up to the track? Is 18 ga big enough if I keep the length under 12". Also, I see you mention a power feed every 6 feet and I had planned on doing that. What I don't understand is the reason for isolating each section? I've seen it mentioned before by others so I know there's a good reason but I just didn't understand why. 

DonR my American Flyer is a 2 rail S scale. My plan is to get the O gauge setup and if there's a way to squeeze the S scale in there somewhere, I'll set it up too. That probably won't happen though. For the switches, I like the idea of two momentary push buttons and will probably go that route. Can I feed each 022 switch with one with 18/4 bell wire? One constant power, one hot from the push button for straight, one hot from push button for divert and one for common?

What about clever ways to mark your switches? How I've got mine drawn out, I'm going to have 8 switches and if I'm going to control them from a central location, how do you guys keep them straight? I thought about numbering or color coding them but I figured some of you guys have some clever ways of marking them or keeping them straight. Or maybe just a lot of practice and you get used to them.

Thanks again


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

What I meant by spider feeds are the lines that go from your buss to the track power connectors. But it's a general term for the feeds that go from any main buss to its terminating point. 18ga for 12" is more than enough. If you meant 12' it's still enough. Insulating blocks of track let you switch blocks on and off. This is handy when you have a train on a turnoff but are running another on the main line.

Something some switch controllers do for you is a light indicating switch position. Because the actuator is a momentary throw, the toggle handle doesn't tell you the position. You can add lights for this yourself but you gotta ask at what point is it easier to just get the proper controller? YMMV

Think it 3 dimensions. Your S scale could be an elevated run. There are standards for clearance over the various scales.


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## TheNEMOexpress (Oct 13, 2014)

ErnestHouse said:


> What I meant by spider feeds are the lines that go from your buss to the track power connectors. But it's a general term for the feeds that go from any main buss to its terminating point. 18ga for 12" is more than enough. If you meant 12' it's still enough. Insulating blocks of track let you switch blocks on and off. This is handy when you have a train on a turnoff but are running another on the main line.
> 
> Something some switch controllers do for you is a light indicating switch position. Because the actuator is a momentary throw, the toggle handle doesn't tell you the position. You can add lights for this yourself but you gotta ask at what point is it easier to just get the proper controller? YMMV
> 
> Think it 3 dimensions. Your S scale could be an elevated run. There are standards for clearance over the various scales.


Thanks, I believe I will isolate some of the sections. I had already planned to isolate one spur to leave the old post war 726rr parked on but I think I will do more.

As far as the switch controllers, I noticed the switches and controllers have lights on them. The controller is a momentary switch so if I switch it one direction does the light stay on the controller until I switch it back the other way or does it just light the light while the controller switch is activated? More to the point, if I switch the switch to divert, what lights on the controller and switch will come on and stay on? Same question if I switch back to straight?


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

THe lights stay on. THat's what makes them so handy. With a glance you can see red or green (depending on the controller)


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

On my turnouts I use DPDT Momentary On / Off / Momentary On switches, flip the switch and let go of it wired up for siding and down for straight through. I couldn't say about any indicator lights


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## TheNEMOexpress (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks for all of the info guys. I would appreciate any advice or criticism on my proposed layout. I drew it out on SCARM so the track is to scale and the dots are 12" apart curves are 0-31 and switches are 022s. Some of my MS paint isn't exact to scale but it is close. The red outline is the platform for the layout and the black outline is the walls of the room. After drawing it out, I did some more reading and decided to take out the switch and spur(maybe not the right word) on the top left which will get the platform depth down to 34" and give me 34" aisle for that section. The length of the layout is almost 18' and the room is 21' long. As I said before, this is mainly just a setup to run trains around and use operating accessories and cars. If there's anything you would add or change, I'm all ears. I don't want a reversing loop at this time because this is going to be my son's layout and he will have 2 trains so I don't want to run the risk of a head on collision. Thanks again


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