# wahoo



## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

sid got a new to me flat car yeppers. cant wait till i build my new layout. wahoooo :smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*New flat car*



sid said:


> sid got a new to me flat car yeppers. cant wait till i build my new layout. wahoooo QUOTE]
> 
> sid;
> 
> ...


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

howdy traction. yes i do prefer rapido couplers. i had so many layouts planed and i discarded every one of them. i have 11 foot wall and a 10 foot wall that im going to build on. but im still remodeling that room along with other rooms at the same time. so im hoping by end of september or early oct i can get started building. i have most of the track (i had a lot more than i thought did inventory today ) so i just need to finish remodeling. (moving plugs and wires around ) i like that fruit express car. it would go good with the 2 other fruit cars i have. here is a shot of my new plan with reversing loops. im still fiddling with it. but im close. trying to get the curves more smooth ect. at first it was only single track loop. but i wanted 2 loops so i could have one loco running all the time while the other ones are working else where. i did have the other wall to build on but the wife said i have spent to much. apparently she thinks i dont need unlimited spending


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## usafajk324 (Jul 31, 2019)

*What track*

What track will you be using? I'm working with about a 10x10 room and couldn't get something that compact. I just completed the first section of benchwork minus the 1/4" plywood top today


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Looks good except for a few spots*



sid said:


> howdy traction. yes i do prefer rapido couplers. i had so many layouts planed and i discarded every one of them. i have 11 foot wall and a 10 foot wall that im going to build on. but im still remodeling that room along with other rooms at the same time. so im hoping by end of september or early oct i can get started building. i have most of the track (i had a lot more than i thought did inventory today ) so i just need to finish remodeling. (moving plugs and wires around ) i like that fruit express car. it would go good with the 2 other fruit cars i have. here is a shot of my new plan with reversing loops. im still fiddling with it. but im close. trying to get the curves more smooth ect. at first it was only single track loop. but i wanted 2 loops so i could have one loco running all the time while the other ones are working else where. i did have the other wall to build on but the wife said i have spent to much. apparently she thinks i dont need unlimited spending



sid;

Your track plan looks good to me, except for some reverse curves, and even some double reverse curves in a few spots. Fortunately, they are easy to correct, if you choose to.
A "reverse curve" is a track arrangement that requires a train to make a right turn, followed directly by a left turn, with no straight track in between the two opposite direction turns. (Obviously, this applies equally to a left, & then right turn track arrangement.) 
A "double reverse curve" adds another curve reversal onto the end of a reverse curve. This might be right turn, left turn, right turn, for example. 
Reverse curves, single, or even worse double ones, are very difficult for a train to run through, especially when backing up, as when backing into a siding to pick up, or drop off, a car. Reverse curves are well known for causing derailments. Derailments cause frustration and cancel out fun. Therefore, it's well worth hunting down, and eliminating reverse curves in any track plan. 
Look at the siding going behind (the "north" side of) your train station. At either end, there is a reverse curve. On the right("east") side, it's actually a double reverse curve. 
Start to the right ("east") of the station. The big turn-back loop is a right-hand curve. When the train comes off that loop, it enters a left-hand curve, and then is switched into the siding on a right-hand curve, it must snap from a right turn directly into a left turn, and then directly back into another right-hand turn. That is a double reverse curve. You can move the turnout back into the big loop,and eliminate the reverse curve. Instead of using the left-hand turnout you have there now, use a right-hand turnout that will fit better into the big turn-back loop's right curvature. You can simply swap the two turnouts from either end of the station siding, and you will have a right-hand turnout on the right hand loop and a left-hand turnout in the curve to the left ("west") of the station. Look carefully around the rest of your track plan. Trace your finger along the track, and I think you will find some other reverse curves to eliminate. One way to do that is to insert a section of straight track between the two opposite curves. If the straight section is longer than your longest car, then there is no longer a reverse curve at all, just two separate normal curves.
Another thing I see on your track plan (and most track plans, for that matter.) is a whole lot of turnouts. At $25-$30 each, that's a whole lot of money!  
Of course, you may already have all the turnouts you need to build your track plan. If you don't have that many turnouts, or that much money, you might look at where you can cut back on the number of turnouts by simplifying your track plan a bit. That's up to you, of course.

Is your layout going to be up against walls on either side? That might make access to the yard along the "west" side of your layout difficult. You could build a table type layout and mount casters on the legs to let you move it out from the wall. If you choose that option, I recommend using heavy-duty casters, equipped with toe-operated brakes. The brakes will keep the table steady, and the trains on the track, when you don't want the table to move. Another approach would be to move the yard up front, where you can reach it easily. 
I'm attaching some pdf files that may help you with designing, or modifying a track plan. They talk about different types and shapes of layouts. I'm also going to attach the complete list of cars I have available, including photos. If you want that PFE refer car, or anything else, let me know in a private message. Freight cars with Rapido couplers are $2 ea. plus postage.

Yes, after 37 years of marriage, I have learned to keep my hobby finances as private as possible!  
"What happens in the hobby shop stays in the hobby shop!" 
If your "silly, reckless" spending is discovered by your wife, you might ask her why one woman, with only two feet "NEEDS" fifty pairs of shoes, or "NEEDS" enough clothes to burst the walls of a closet! :laugh:

Have fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

View attachment WHERE DO I START rev 4.pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


View attachment All AboutTurnouts rev 4.pdf


View attachment 1 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 2 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 3 & 4 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 5 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 6 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment N-scale cars for sale.pdf


View attachment Model Railroad Terminology 2.2.pdf


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

usafajk324 said:


> What track will you be using? I'm working with about a 10x10 room and couldn't get something that compact. I just completed the first section of benchwork minus the 1/4" plywood top today


i use only Kato track as i just love how is works. its easy and if i dont like the layout i can take it apart. I also use scarm software and i do recommend it now that i know somewhat how to use it. I still learning a lot.


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

Quote: Is your layout going to be up against walls on either side? That might make access to the yard along the "west" side of your layout difficult. You could build a table type layout and mount casters on the legs to let you move it out from the wall. If you choose that option, I recommend using heavy-duty casters, equipped with toe-operated brakes. The brakes will keep the table steady, and the trains on the track, when you don't want the table to move. Another approach would be to move the yard up front, where you can reach it easily. :::
yes it is going up against a wall the only problem area its the north west corner it a big stetch , but i think i can do that ok. ive been measuring and checking. thats why the plan looks like it does. haha


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

traction i'm not following you on the reverse curves . im not understanding . i can just remove them . don't really need them just somebody mentioned them and so i thought ill give it a try and when i played with them with the simulator i kinda liked them. as far as turn outs .. somebody some place said the same thing but never got back to me on how to build with out them. I'M still waiting ya cant turn out if there is no turn out. plus i have a bunch of them. .... perhaps you could give me some sorta drawing on the reverse loops pencil drawing is fine just so i can get a better understanding. i learn more from pic than i do typing. if i see it i can build it.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Yes, you do need turnouts, but maybe not as many?*



sid said:


> traction i'm not following you on the reverse curves . im not understanding . i can just remove them . don't really need them just somebody mentioned them and so i thought ill give it a try and when i played with them with the simulator i kinda liked them. as far as turn outs .. somebody some place said the same thing but never got back to me on how to build with out them. I'M still waiting ya cant turn out if there is no turn out. plus i have a bunch of them. .... perhaps you could give me some sorta drawing on the reverse loops pencil drawing is fine just so i can get a better understanding. i learn more from pic than i do typing. if i see it i can build it.


Sid;

I'll see what I can come up with for a sketch, and send it later. I understand that it's easier to see something than to describe it in words alone.
You're right that to do any train operation besides running around and around in circles, you need to have some turnouts. The only point I was trying to make was that just about everybody can add turnouts to a track plan until they have more turnouts than they can afford to buy. That may not be true for you, though you mentioned not having unlimited funds available. (Don't we all? :laugh 

You said you use "only Kato track." Does that include using Kato turnouts? Kato Unitrack turnouts are good.

To prevent that long stretch in the northwest corner, you could angle the track inward, to shorten your stretch from the front of the layout.

Have fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

Ive been googling for a few hrs looking at different reverse curves , how there made all the Y's ect. ive change some of the track to shorting the top N-E loop. i smoothed some of the cuves. Yes i only use Kato track turn outs , every thing is Kato. except the locos . i have one kato switcher and i finaly got rapido couplers on it. took me a while to figger it out too. come to find out all ya need is body mount couplers and a file to file them down just a lil bit. hahahahah i understand about that expense for turn outs . im always looking for the best deal and when i find it i buy them. . but i have most every thing . im still short three left turnouts. looking for a good buy takes time. hahahah im not rich . but i get what i want if ive got the moola . but wife said to stop buying for a while tile i get the house remodeled. ive been working on the train stuff more than the house stuff. doing all the work my self so im slow. wiring and the whole nine yards . hahahahaha I appreciate your time . im trying to understand stuff. this will prob be my last lay out so im want some thing i can stay busy with and enjoy for a long time . im not a spring chicken any more every thing hurts. hahahahahahaha


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Source for three left turnouts?*



sid said:


> Ive been googling for a few hrs looking at different reverse curves , how there made all the Y's ect. ive change some of the track to shorting the top N-E loop. i smoothed some of the cuves. Yes i only use Kato track turn outs , every thing is Kato. except the locos . i have one kato switcher and i finaly got rapido couplers on it. took me a while to figger it out too. come to find out all ya need is body mount couplers and a file to file them down just a lil bit. hahahahah i understand about that expense for turn outs . im always looking for the best deal and when i find it i buy them. . but i have most every thing . im still short three left turnouts. looking for a good buy takes time. hahahah im not rich . but i get what i want if ive got the moola . but wife said to stop buying for a while tile i get the house remodeled. ive been working on the train stuff more than the house stuff. doing all the work my self so im slow. wiring and the whole nine yards . hahahahaha I appreciate your time . im trying to understand stuff. this will prob be my last lay out so im want some thing i can stay busy with and enjoy for a long time . im not a spring chicken any more every thing hurts. hahahahahahaha


 sid;

When you get ready to buy those three more left turnouts, you might look on www.modeltrainstuff.com I checked today and they have them for about $20 ea. depending on which type you want.
I prefer turnouts with metal frogs that are wired to supply power to all the wheels of a locomotive as it passes through the turnout. This means a smooth ride with no stalling, even at slow speed. I saw some Kato turnouts in a video by Fifer's hobby supply that had the metal frogs. I make my own turnouts with powered metal frogs in them. I'll work on a sketch tonight but it may take awhile to get it onto my computer, so that I can send it to you. If you want the ultimate information source for reverse curves, and everything else anybody would ever need to know about track planning, get a copy of John Armstrong's excellent book, "Track Planning for Realistic Operation." You can order it from www.amazon.com They have some for only $3.89, That's a great deal on a great book!

I understand about the getting old, and everything hurts business. I'm 71 years old and partially disabled so several parts of my old body are usually hurting! It seems sometimes like they take turns. One part hurts today, and a different one will hurt tomorrow.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## usafajk324 (Jul 31, 2019)

*Midwest Model RR*

Try here at Midwest Model Railroad, I just ordered most of the parts I needed for the rest of my layout (curves and turnouts mostly) and paid $18 and change for the turnouts. Cheapest I've found.


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