# Started on new diorama



## tankist

in order to break the routine a bit i started on new small diorama. the idea is to have some fun, gain skills and have perhaps a better location to photograph locos and rolling stock.

overview of first steps - the pink. since my original cliffs are not something i'm considering investing into WS rock molds this time...









future trestle.


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## SFC Diesel

Are those match sticks that you used for the bridge?

Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## tankist

yep, those are matchsticks


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## SFC Diesel

tankist said:


> yep, those are matchsticks


I really don't know how you guys think of stuff like that, I don't even know where to start asking questions about the How to's. 

Awesome Stuff man.


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## tjcruiser

Looks like a nice display/photo backdrop.

I fiddled with the "pink stuff" recently, making some mountains for my HO layout. First time using the stuff. What I found worked well to best simulate the "natural roughness" of rock ledge was ...

I stuck a 50-grit, 1.5" diameter drum sander into the chuck of my drill. Then, with the thing spinning away, I whacked it into the foam, over and over. It gouged away, of course, but the resulting gouges all added up to a reasonably convincing series of ledges, crevices, etc. for the rock.


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## tankist

got WS rock mold. some cast rocks


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## Reckers

Anyone care to offer an opinion on how similar the pink stuff is to the standard, molded, white styrofoam blocks used in shipping things? I wanted to do some weathering and texture experiments w/o getting shredded foam all over the apartment. If they aren't chemically similar, though, I'm wasting my time.


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## tankist

working with either pink foam or "usual packing" foam will net you bunch of shreded foam. have vacuum ready. unless you going to use hot knife to work it. however i will skip the white stuff as it is less strong of material


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## Reckers

I'm still curious about using acetone. I'm aware it tends to turn styrofoam into a puddle of goo; that said, there has to be something I can dilute it with to control the degree of dissolution.
The work you have done on your layout is classic granite formation---excellent work, too. Granite's dense and hard, retaining it's sharp edges for eons. Sandstone, though, it easily carved by wind and water, and softens into gentle, rounded curves. If I can get the foam's surface to flow just a bit, I might be able to reproduce the look.


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## tankist

piece of foam that i got was as-is . one of the blemishes was an area that was attempted to be glued with non foam friendly material. it looks nothing like sandstone to me. besides, foam is just a base. you cover it with plaster and spaclkilng for texture. it will be quite fragile without and not alst as long (accidents happen).

but give it a try if you must.


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## Reckers

*LOL* I appreciate the advice, Anton. If I try it out, I'll let you know how it worked. By the way, what would you suggest for a dilutant for acetone?


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## tankist

no idea, srry. 
water perhaps?


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## Reckers

I figure water, isopropanol...something's gotta work.


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## tjcruiser

Re: white packing foam vs. "Home Depot" pink insulation foam ...

The white packing stuff is typically made from compressed "pellets" or little foam balls. It doesn't cut very smoothly / consistently.

The Pink Stuff, however, is much more homegenous in nature, and can be cut/carved pretty uniformly.


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## tjcruiser

I used the Pink Stuff to carve a "granite" mountain / tunnel recently. I was really winging it, but it turned out OK. I think credit goes to a (dumb luck) choice of paint, applied via "bristle brush dab strokes" in 5 layers:

Layer 1 – full coverage
Benjamin Moore house paint (had some leftover!)
2099-50 CAFÉ MOCHA
Layer 2 – partial coverage
Apple Barrel acrylic paint (from Michael’s craft store)
20576 TOFFEE
Layer 3 – partial coverage
Apple Barrel acrylic paint (from Michael’s craft store)
20526 COUNTRY GREY
Layer 4 – partial coverage
Apple Barrel acrylic paint (from Michael’s craft store)
20575 SANDSTONE
Layer 5 – very light dabs of coverage
Apple Barrel acrylic paint (from Michael’s craft store)
BLACK

Layers 2 thru 5 were all mixed about 50%/50% with water before applying.

I'm sure there's a gazillion other paint color choices, but these worked pretty well with me for a "granite" look.


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## Reckers

Thanks for all the advice, Tankist and TJ.


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## SFC Diesel

I'm wanting to start on the track layout this weekend, what is that pink foam called, so I don't look like a donkey going to the hardware store this weekend.


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## tankist

extruded insulation foam. comes in 0.5,1 and 2 inches of thikness


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## SFC Diesel

tankist said:


> extruded insulation foam. comes in 0.5,1 and 2 inches of thikness


Thanks, do you recommend any specific size, or does it just depend on what your building?


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## tankist

it comes in 4x8 ft sheets, you later cut it to size. use ruler an very sharp knife


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## tankist

glued the cast rock pieces to the wall and filled the gaps. looks awesome to me. infact i think i'm going to revisit the rocks on my main layout.












trestle abutment (no vertical supports yet)


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## SFC Diesel

Good stuff man,

I have come to look forward to monday's since getting into this hobby, for the simple fact of loggin on to see what Tankist did this weekend.

Looks Great.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

I think I want to grab some rope and crampons and go repelling down that cliff! Nice!

TJ


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## tankist

thanks guys.



continuing the trestle


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## Reckers

Very nice, Anton. How about a plank walkway up one side to keep the kids from getting run down by your train? Oh, and by the way, I finally saw the zombie movie---loved it!


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## radfan

Reckers said:


> I figure water, isopropanol...something's gotta work.



Here's the safety sheet for Acetone, Looks like water is the answer!

http://policom.dei.polimi.it/intranet/MSDS/Acetone.pdf


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> *LOL* I appreciate the advice, Anton. If I try it out, I'll let you know how it worked. By the way, what would you suggest for a dilutant for acetone?



Acetone is extremely flammable! 
Watch any source of heat while working with it.

Hot water heater or furnace kicking on cigarettes and the like.

Sparks from a wire wheel. Be careful

Even static electricity will make it blow. Don't scratch you head while working with it.:laugh:

What do you want to dilute it for? To melt the foam?

Acetone is water soluble. You can try to dilute it.

Watch breathing the fumes too. It's not a good thing to do.

We haul a lot of acetone loads. 7000 gals a load.:smokin:

Some fingernail polish remover is probably diluted enough to do what ever you are going to do with it without blowing yourself up.
My young (old) lady has some.


Nice job on your rocky cliffs tank.:thumbsup:

Trestles is coming along nice too. Just needs a little weathering now.


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## Reckers

Radfan and Ed, thank you, both. Ed, to answer your question about "why??" One of the things I've been mentally toying with is sandstone. Most layouts appear to simulate granite or some other hard stone: it has sharp edges and angles, and the fracture points are characterized by bowls or angled bulges. All very nicely done, too. However, I've been to places where sandstone layers are carved by wind and water, leaving soft curves instead: http://www.echofallscabin.com/images/largeImages/RedRiverGorge.jpg

I raised the issue earlier in the year of spraying acetone onto foam to melt the surface and make it flow. The responders warned me that acetone was a solvent and it would flow, all right----flow right off the table and puddle around my feet. So, I wondered if I could dilute it sufficiently to make the impact minimal. Once I get moved, I'll have the room and time to experiment with it.


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## Reckers

Hey, Tankist! want to weather it quickly? Get a pan and a couple of weights; submerge your bridge overnight in old coffee. I learned to do that with bone beads to artificially age them. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## bradimous1

couldn't you just use some newspaper and masking tape to create the smooth edges vs. risking the acetone.... seems like if you rap a ball of newspaper with masking tape, you wouldn't get the rigid edges that the foam would give you. I was planning on doing this, but now wondering by the way you guys are talking that it won't really work.


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## bradimous1

I forgot to mention

Tankist... that is awesome... kind of jealous


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## tjcruiser

Gents,

Re: acetone ... we use this in the boating industry a lot. Powerful solvent, with many uses, but be VERY wary of letting it get on your skin for too long. It actually absorbs into your bloodstream through your pores. Not good.

Reck -- re: your River Gorge pic ... nice "Mother Nature" artwork! The colors here look pretty close to those achieved on my HO layout via palette described on Page 2 of this thread, for what it's worth.

Ohh ... and if you're pot of coffee is "old" ... you're NOT drinking it fast enough!!! Good tip, actually ... in the ship-modelling world, we soak linen in tea to give it an aged look.

And ... most importantly ... Anton, GREAT work! Thanks MUCH for sharing this project with us!

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Resulting "granite" color (via palette, above) shown here:


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## tankist

thanks guys 



Reckers said:


> Very nice, Anton. How about a plank walkway up one side to keep the kids from getting run down by your train? Oh, and by the way, I finally saw the zombie movie---loved it!


i thought about it but decided to skip - it really not that high of a trestle. one could just walk near the wall. i don't see many walkways on smaller ones.

had a feeling you will like it 



Reckers said:


> Hey, Tankist! want to weather it quickly? Get a pan and a couple of weights; submerge your bridge overnight in old coffee. I learned to do that with bone beads to artificially age them.


the bridge is glued together with elmers wood glue so i'm bit reluctant to submerge it in anything in fears it will dissolve the glue. i'll give it a try with a test piece.

so far tried diluted india ink and watercolor (on test pieces). craft sticks (cross-braces) absorb both well, matches (bulk of the construction) not so, and places with glue traces not at all.. so next i will try diluted acrylic color (black or dark brown with black maybe with a drop of green). it also looks like the sleepers will need to be of same color.


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## Reckers

bradimous1 said:


> couldn't you just use some newspaper and masking tape to create the smooth edges vs. risking the acetone.... seems like if you rap a ball of newspaper with masking tape, you wouldn't get the rigid edges that the foam would give you. I was planning on doing this, but now wondering by the way you guys are talking that it won't really work.


First, don't let my mental meanderings dissuade you. What you are doing has the reputation of a tried and true method. Mine, in contrast, may well lead to madness. Or at least, acetone poisoning.

What I'm mulling over is a geologic rock formation that's composed of layers of sandstone that have been weathered. It would seem to me that layers of foam with slightly different paint tones could be weathered with highly diluted acetone. Here's a few sample pics:
http://geochristian.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/utah2.jpg
http://3dparks.wr.usgs.gov/coloradoplateau/photo/navajo.jpg
http://www.wirednut.com/assets/images/Torrent1.jpg

It those vertical lines and the smooth, timeworn curves that I find attractive.

-----

tj, thanks for the input! Your layout pic is great----very much what I have in mind. What did you use to build your rock formations?

-----

Tankist---it's killing me that you've got all these great projects going, and I'm reduced to stuffing cars into bubblewrap and taping up boxes! I don't have a house to rent yet, and my gf is already exacting promises from me about planting tulips and black-eyed susans and daisies....it's gonna be winter before I've completed the yardwork on a house I haven't even rented, yet.


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## tjcruiser

Reckers ... nice pics. Reminds me of a trip to Sedona, AZ some years ago ... beautiful scenery.

As I'm looking at your 1st and 2nd pics, I'm wondering if one would be better off trying to model those long, parallel erosion grooves by skim-coating a rough form (foam, etc.) in plaster (not slow set joing compound, but faster set stuff, plaster of paris, etc.), smoothing it out quickly after application, waiting a bit, and then "raking" across the surface with a comb (of sorts) to create a series of curving (but parallel) striations.

I've never done that myself, mind you ... just thinking out load. (Or blowin' smoke ???)

My rock was standard Pink Stuff foam sheets (mostly 2"), glued, then hacked away with handsaws and a 50-grit sanding drum mounted in a portable drill. Pretty crude, overall, but it all dressed up OK with paint.

Tankist -- have you fiddled with colored glazes much (like for home/wall decoration)? Might get around the "glued areas won't soak up stain" situation. Might be essentially similar to a thinned paint mix, as you suggest.

Good luck!

TJ


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## Reckers

TJ, I'll keep that in mind and give it a try when the time comes. Or just invite Tankist down, chain him in the basement and keep the beer coming till he makes me the perfect layout.


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## tankist

Reck, as you can see this is a very small project (and a learning piece - the first cast wall i made i broke down and redid. less painfull then on main layout. ). 
given you have some free time, can be accomplished even in most cramped conditions with minimal tools. unless you living on suitcases... in that case i 

i can understand the looking for new untried ways to accomplish things, however even if you get the texture exactly how you want, it is still on foam surface. and as such it will be quite fragile. having hard shell from hydrocal or plaster of paris carved out will be much more abuse resistant (plus will take paint better). after enough tries i'm sure good results will be accomplished. and if someone happened to be as untalented of a sculptor as me - WS rock casts available for those sandstone rocks as well



oh and BTW, i haven't had a beer (nor coffie) for couple weeks now. feels great


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## tankist

tried painting the trestle. on photo it much easier to see areas in need of touch up


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## Reckers

Thank you for good advice, Anton. Your point about the fragility is well-made; it sounds as though I'd be wasting my time, even if it came out well.


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## bradimous1

I don't know as if you do want to do much touch up on that... I like the way it looks as is Tankist. Gives it a very old feel.


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## tjcruiser

bradimous1 said:


> I don't know as if you do want to do much touch up on that... I like the way it looks as is Tankist. Gives it a very old feel.


I'll echo that thought, if I can be bold enough to throw in my 2 cents. It's got a nice "seasoned" look.


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## tankist

thanks guys, however some spots are almost bare. this is almost invisible on the model itself but quite clearly on blown up picture. color came out bit more saturated then i initially wanted but i liked the result + from the several samples i made wife also chose this one (and she loves to criticize my work )

as was suggested i will remove the plastic tie grid from the flex section and put longer matchstick ties painted in same color for the trestle span



Reckers said:


> Thank you for good advice, Anton. Your point about the fragility is well-made; it sounds as though I'd be wasting my time, even if it came out well.


with that, you entitled to waste your time as you see fit  do couple samples and decide then.


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## tankist

removed the black plastic ties and glued in the wooden ones.

the boards near the edge not yet glued in


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## tjcruiser

Tankist,

Looking VERY nice! How did you glue the wood ties to the flex track ... CA / ZAP? Was rail-to-rail spacing alignment tricky? Just curious.

I don't know if it's in your paint / scenery plans, but I'm thinking a little brook/stream should be spilling over the cliff and under the bridge here. Or maybe just a dry stream bed (that would only be wet in heavy storms). Not to steer your handiwork in any way, mind you!

TJ

TJ


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## tankist

thank you 

track is not yet glued - i glued the ties to the treste first. i will need to paint and more importantly do a ground cover on on the bottom of the gully first (or what would be the proper word to name this bridged gap?). i was thinking to make it a drywash area. or bit wetter/sloshy one. stream would look amazing but i just don't see how i can make water appearing there believable. it is quite small of a diorama so decided not to overload it. and the main goal here is practice casting and painting rocks. perhaps i will be doing one to experiment with water later, perhaps on next one.

i probably going to use CA to glue. i will also need to figure out how i'm going to make spikes for it. for proper rail spacing (gauge that is) i plan on using the old tie grid on top


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## Big Ed

tankist said:


> removed the black plastic ties and glued in the wooden ones.
> 
> the boards near the edge not yet glued in




I can see a little water coming down the rocks and under the trestle.:thumbsup:

Right above the cow catcher up over that hollowed out spot on the bottom of the rock.
Then just sculpt the rock around it some to give it that round washed rock look that took many moons to form.

What are you going to do with it after you build it?

If this your experiment piece then you ought to experiment.:thumbsup:

Trestles looking good! (and the rest)

Do you want a can of creosote for the ties?:laugh:

Next picture get the top of the rocks too please.:thumbsup:

For me to visualize the water cascading down, I need the all the rock in the picture.


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## tankist

Ed, i think the trestle should have looked differently if it was crossing a spring. i think i will keep it dry if only to not overload it with detail. but any further suggestions are welcome.




finished and painted the trestle. track is not attached yet.

took on painting the cliffs - first try at using an airbrush.
blew a coat of india ink/isopropyl on it. covered mostly everything but somehow it didn't reach the deepest cracks. so i did another run this time working the cracks from very close distance literally drenching and making the ink mix run. mixed burnt sienna acrylic with white pigment and lots of water. tried to brush it and almost had a heart attack - seemed that I was overdoing the color, so i brushed it with just water trying to spread it creating puddles on the clifs (layed it flat on the table). 

wife, who is usually VERY critical of my work (she is not of a people who sweet talk things. with her its always between the eyes) suddenly really liked it, which i guess means its not all bad. but still, somehow i'm not 100% satisfied with the results... 
something needs to be done. your critique and suggestions are welcome

overview









trestle area cliffs close-up (Ed)









another









painted trestle










here is the album. modified it to allow everybody to original pictures. click on individual pic and select "Get Original Uploaded Photo" to see the full 4800x2800 pixel image


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## Southern

great tread


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## tjcruiser

Tankist ...

Looks GREAT ... nice work! Two suggestions:

1. Maybe some very small patches of moss on the quasi-horizontal faces of a few rock edges?

2. You might put down a few watered-down dabs of Elmers on some other quasi-horizontal rock faces, and then sprinkle on some sand (or some fine ballast) of similar color -- to make it look like portions of the rock are eroding and beginning to crumble just a bit.

But, remember ... I could be blowin' smoke, here.

Thanks for keeping us all in the loop on this fun project!

TJ


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## tankist

tjcruiser said:


> 1. Maybe some very small patches of moss on the quasi-horizontal faces of a few rock edges?


Absolutley. for now however i'm conserned about the color.
going to try and tone down that reddishness a bit...

i will look at erosion suggestion. 



> Thanks for keeping us all in the loop on this fun project!





> great tread


well thats the point, no? 
i wish we had more talk about modeling and less off topic so i'm doing what i can


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## Boston&Maine

That looks awsome... Have you thought about making more and selling them?


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## tankist

Boston&Maine said:


> That looks awsome... Have you thought about making more and selling them?


thank you, thats quite a compliment 

i must admit i did think about it, but at the moment this is not something i'm actively pursuing. i tried to ebay my previous demo/picture stand (since it takes room at this point) but got no bids , just watchers. 
with that, if there anyone who reads this and interested in this particular piece (after seeing frame by frame how to make one) or something similar i definitely could make one or more for sale...


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## Reckers

Anton, a modest suggestion. The rock face looks great. It would look more realistic, though, if you had some crumbled rock/rubble at the bottom of the face. Winter freezing tends to pop out sections and they accumulate at the bottom of the face. Nice job!


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## tankist

Reckers said:


> Anton, a modest suggestion. The rock face looks great. It would look more realistic, though, if you had some crumbled rock/rubble at the bottom of the face. Winter freezing tends to pop out sections and they accumulate at the bottom of the face. Nice job!


obviously, thanks. apart from winter, talus is going to cover the pink transition between the wall and the floor.

+ tried to neutralize the reddishness abit.


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## bradimous1

I'm a little jealous of your artistic ability... this looks absolutely amazing

GREAT WORK!!!


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## tankist

ballasted and did a bit of landscaping work.
after everything dries up i will be touching up on things here and there. and first probably be dimming the flamy/ rusty rails










some shrubbery under the trestle 









some vegetation on the cliffs


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## tjcruiser

Anton,

Excellent detailing ... looks REAL!

I like the oak base edging, too ... classy.

Cheers,

TJ


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## tankist

TY TJ




tried to dumb down the reddish rail color. used the same mixture of paint as main layout. will need to touch up couple places with a brush but it is much better, IMHO. still lots of greenery to plant 










while guard rail is in the works, spikes are dfinetly missing here. me thinks sewing pins should make neat spike heads.


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## tjcruiser

tankist said:


> sewing pins should make neat spike heads.



Pin HEADS glued on, right? I think it'd be risky to actually drive a pin into the ties ... runs the risk of splitting the wood ties, even if you predrill.

My cheap 2-cents ...

TJ


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## Komodo

tankist said:


> trestle area cliffs close-up (Ed)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> another



That wall thing looks very cool, i assume you used foam


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## tankist

no. for the clifs i usd cast plaster of paris. look at the beginning of the thread, the entire build is listed step by step with pictures.


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