# AF #342AC 0-8-0 Switcher Needs TLC



## Nuttin But Flyer

Hi All -- Found a "box of gold" last night. Never knew, but some time in the past I must have purchased a lot of AF stuff from a friend -- maybe while drinking. Apparently I threw it all in a box and stored it in the basement where it stayed for years. The wife made me start cleaning up and I discovered this box marked "HO Train Stuff". Lo and behold, I opened it to find a #470 Diesel engine, silver-painted Santa Fe however, no #472 or #473 to accompany it, three aluminum passenger cars #660, #661 and #662, some track and other odds and ends and a beautiful 0-8-0 switcher #342AC. Only problem, there is no tender for it. When researching the AF Gallery at the Upstairs Train page, I found the correct tender for that production has a Nickle Plate Road Logo and "American Flyer" on the tender. I was unable to find one on EBay -- there is one with "American Flyer Lines" but believe this is for the #342DC loco not the #342AC. Can anyone confirm this info and even better, can anyone pass along some info where to get some "Tender" loving care? Thanks.


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## tjcruiser

Nuttin,

I'm not an AF guy, but this AF website might prove to be helpful in your research. 

http://myflyertrains.org/

Check out the Catalogs section: pages and pages of history! ...

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/Gilbert Catalogs.htm

TJ


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## Reckers

Here's an example of one and a good reference site:

http://www.americanflyerexpress.com...press-switcher-0-8-0-nickel-plate-road-05.htm


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## Reckers

Here's another---it was made from '46 to '51.

http://www.americanflyerexpress.com...press-switcher-0-8-0-nickel-plate-road-08.htm


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## Reckers

I don't have a tender that matches it---best thing might be to go to Ebay.


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## Rich_Trains

Here is a good picture of 342 from the 1953 catalog. The font appears to differ a bit from the 342AC.

Just checked the Doyle Standard Catalog and sure enough the font on the 342 in the 1953 catalog is sans-serif. The font on the ones Reck found looks to be Times New Roman. The 342s, and 343, rate 4 to 5 on the rareity scale out of 8.

I've always liked steam switchers. I converted a 21160 with a chipped cow catcher into a switcher by adding a front coupler. I'd like to take a Casey Jones body and convert it into a dockside switcher if I can find a better motor and figure out the pickups.

http://myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1953Catalog/AF_1953_catalog_page14.htm.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Thanks for the info. Originally, I had thought the 342AC had a tender that was imprinted with "American Flyer" only. But with the info provided by Reckers, it appears that the 342AC did have the full "American Flyer Lines" imprinted on it. Using the website Reckers linked, there were three years (1949, 1950, 1951) that show pictures of this item during those years. Two of those show a different, larger font on the engine. But the one for 1950 looks exactly like the font on mine. So it is my thought that I have the 1950's version of this piece. Now, with this new info, I'm back to searching EBay......and beyond.


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## Reckers

....and you have a terrific new toy to play with. *drooling*


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## flyernut

Nice little engine..According to my Flyer manual, the tender should have "American Flyer" on the side. But who knows, right? My buddy has2 of the 5 digit switchers, which are extremely rare and command a hefty price tag. He has 2 complete sets, one of which was never played with. His dad bought each son a complete set, and they played with only one set, the other not being touched. He won't part with either set.


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## Reckers

Those are right up there with the Holy Grail. *L* I think Stillakid found one on Ebay last year for a good price and snatched it up!


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## flyernut

Reckers said:


> Those are right up there with the Holy Grail. *L* I think Stillakid found one on Ebay last year for a good price and snatched it up!


That stuff never happens to me!! I answered an ad in the paper for a garage sale, and the owner had a 343 switcher and cars in the ad for $75 bucks. I called him and told him to hold it for me as I would be driving 100 miles and he said he would hold it. Of course we all know what happened. Must I say it???? I hate people like that.. A man's word is his word!!!!!


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## Reckers

Yeah---I had a guy on the site last year wanting to unload some old stuff of his dads. I gave him a price---told him it was worth more than that, but it's what I could afford. He said no problem, he just wanted it to be sold to someone who'd love the stuff like dad did and the price was fine. He then sold it to someone else. It taught me that making offers on new-arrival stuff on this site was a waste of time--they just use your offer to leverage a better offer someplace else.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I found a tender on eBay for a #343 knowing full well it was not for my #342AC. But I figured until the correct one appears, it would work for the time-being. Well, lo and behold, not even a week later, the correct one appeared. I bid on it and got it. Now I had two tenders coming. Upon receipt of the packages, I looked each over and still am lost. The one from the #343 will probably work once I service and test it. There was nothing out of the ordinary that I noticed. However, the one which appears to be from a #342 is missing the wires/harness that connects to the engine. There doesn't even appear to be any evidence there was a harness, at least not until I open it up and check. Since the second tender was not listed with a particular engine number, only the picture that showed the correct markings, how can I determine if it is for an "AC" and not for "DC" -- what differences can I look for in the tender to be sure it is for "AC"?


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I found a tender on eBay for a #343 knowing full well it was not for my #342AC. But I figured until the correct one appears, it would work for the time-being. Well, lo and behold, not even a week later, the correct one appeared. I bid on it and got it. Now I had two tenders coming. Upon receipt of the packages, I looked each over and still am lost. The one from the #343 will probably work once I service and test it. There was nothing out of the ordinary that I noticed. However, the one which appears to be from a #342 is missing the wires/harness that connects to the engine. There doesn't even appear to be any evidence there was a harness, at least not until I open it up and check. Since the second tender was not listed with a particular engine number, only the picture that showed the correct markings, how can I determine if it is for an "AC" and not for "DC" -- what differences can I look for in the tender to be sure it is for "AC"?


I might have a new wiring harness for your tender, if there's a reverse unit in there. Let me dig around some. If I have it, and you want it, I'll send it out.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I would certainly make use of it if it is the correct item. However, I believe the reverse unit is in the engine itself rather than the tender for the 342AC since the lever extends out of the top of the boiler body. There is no lever extending out of the bottom of the tender as you would normally find on other engines. There is a slot for one, but believe that is only because Gilbert may have used the same tender chassis for all types, reverse in tender or without.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I would certainly make use of it if it is the correct item. However, I believe the reverse unit is in the engine itself rather than the tender for the 342AC since the lever extends out of the top of the boiler body. There is no lever extending out of the bottom of the tender as you would normally find on other engines. There is a slot for one, but believe that is only because Gilbert may have used the same tender chassis for all types, reverse in tender or without.


ok...


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## Reckers

Flyer, let's assume for a moment that your reverse unit is in the boiler and not in the tender. If that is the case, it doesn't matter if the tender is AC or DC: like the rails, the tender will only pass on to the electric motor what is fed to it. An AC will alternate the current flow from on rail to the other, but the tender can't tell: without a reverse unit, it's no more than a pair of wires conducting current from one rail to one post on the motor and the other rail to the other post. If it's DC, the tender will still do exactly the same thing. It's the motor, itself, that will be offended by the wrong current.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Reckers, my 342AC engine appears to be exactly that, right down to all the telltale signs and stamping of the cab. So if what you say is true, then I should not have any problems using either tender that I have. You have laid all my fears to rest and I thank you. All I need now is a crash course in taking apart and servicing these bad boys.


Flyernut -- I may take you up on the harness offer after all. I'll check the tender to see what lurks inside and get back to you.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Reckers, my 342AC engine appears to be exactly that, right down to all the telltale signs and stamping of the cab. So if what you say is true, then I should not have any problems using either tender that I have. You have laid all my fears to rest and I thank you. All I need now is a crash course in taking apart and servicing these bad boys.
> 
> 
> Flyernut -- I may take you up on the harness offer after all. I'll check the tender to see what lurks inside and get back to you.


no problem.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Reckers, my 342AC engine appears to be exactly that, right down to all the telltale signs and stamping of the cab. So if what you say is true, then I should not have any problems using either tender that I have. You have laid all my fears to rest and I thank you. All I need now is a crash course in taking apart and servicing these bad boys.
> 
> 
> Flyernut -- I may take you up on the harness offer after all. I'll check the tender to see what lurks inside and get back to you.


I found the harness. It's from LBR Enterprises, and they do nice work. The harness is for a 336 Northern, but you can cut it down so it will fit your engine. It's a 5 wire harness, but again, you can eliminate the 5th wire with no problems.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Thanks but I'll check out my tender first and let you know. I appreciate the offer.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

To all who followed this thread previously, I have decided now it the time to work on this project. Before I begin, I took "before" photos to post on this thread. I will also provide regular updates as well as progress photos to record the process. By doing this, I hope to not only help the forum community for future projects, but to also obtain assistance as I stumble along. The previous postings discussed the missing tender. I found that I was naive in my previous posting when I stated the engine had the reverse unit in the boiler and the lever was extending out through the top. That is untrue and I have no idea where I got that notion. Being a newbie probably. In fact, my 342AC 0-8-0 is exactly as it appears on Bob Graves online AF Gallery. The two tenders I obtained on eBay were nearly identical outside and inside. The only difference is that one has a reverse unit, the other does not. My guess is the one without is for a DC 0-8-0 switcher. However, both tender bodies and chassis are indentical and either could be used as long as a reverse unit is installed. I tested the AC one last night by applying power to it. Although the reverse unit would stick, it did operate as it should. So it needs a good cleaning and maybe new set of fingers. Then I got bold and plugged it into the engine jackplate. The engine did not run, but the armature made a slight movement. So I know it can be made to run after a good cleaning and servicing. I had a slight problem with the camera or I would have posted the photos here. However, I should have the issue resolved and those photos should be posted later tonight. I look forward to everyone watching and waiting for the moment this pretty gal starts her first run. Thanks to you all in advance for what should be a great project.


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## THE TYCO MAN

Wow! What a find!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Finally got the photos I promised. Take a look .......

You'll notice a lot of rust and dirt on the boiler and attached parts, particularly on the handrails, the bell and whistle. I assume a green Scotchbrite pad will clesan those up nice and shiny. But I'm open to other suggestions. I have new cotter pins to attach the handrails so I am not planning to reuse these. The front pilot section is slightly bent inward on one side -- very difficult to see in the photos. I do not plan to try to straighten it as with die-cast metal it would probably break. The rear section where the tender link attaches is also bent and loose, as is the entire motor in the boiler. The rear tabs that hold the motor in place may be broken or bent as the motor can slightly shift/move side to side. Guess it was dropped a few times. I will not be able to find the issues until I take everything apart from the boiler. The linkage is also rusted in many places, again I assume a Scotchbrite pad?? Any suggestions about the use of some cleaner or solvent on these metal pieces? Maybe even some automotive metal cleaner/wax? The tender that I obtained from eBay has a bent step but it is not interfering with anything and not that noticeable. However, as mentioned before, I got two tenders, one AC the other DC. The DC tender body is in nearly perfect condition -- just missing the rear grab ladder at the top of the tender rear. The motor did try to run when power was applied -- the armature made a slight turn on its own -- so I know the wirng is correct as is the AC tender and reverse unit which was used in the initial test. Simple cleaning, servicing and lube should resolve those issues. Will take a look at the brushes and springs before deciding whether to change them or not. All in all, this should be a pretty fun project with a lot of required elbow grease. I welcome any and all suggestions, comments and tips. Stay tuned for more.....


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## Reckers

Flyer, that's a really nice piece. I agree with the Scotchbrite on the wire; you may find a dremel is necessary to do the curves. Stay away from sandpaper, as it will only scratch it. If I recall correctly, that wire was nickel-plated. If it looks hopeless and you can do good wire-bending, stainless wire or sterling silver will also work. Lapidary shops carry the silver for jewelry-makers and may also have the stainless. As for the shell, common sense, some 409 and an old toothbrush are probably your three best friends. I'd spray it heavily with 409, trying to keep it off the numbers (just in case). Flood the crevices and scrub out with the toothbrush. Flush with alcohol if you have a 409 buildup in crevices, as it will leave the floating and dissolved gunk behind when it dries. Finally, some of our guys are partial to Pledge to purty things up and make it look shiny and new.

Best of luck on it!


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## flyernut

These are the projects I dream of.For the wire handrails, I use a dremel with a brass brush first, then I use 2000 grit,wet/dry paper on them. It polishes it up to a mirror finish.Just sit down in front of the telly, and go to work. It will take a little time but well worth it. For the linkages, the same thing. Just knock off the heavier stuff first, then back to work with the 2000 paper. Don't be afraid of scratches; it will shine it up nicely, just a slow process.I use a mild detergent in a warm bowl of water with a toothbrush for cleaning.
Now for the bent parts. Back many issues ago, there was a great article on how to straighten bent cast cab ends on a old Lionel loco. And I mean these were BENT!!! They used heat, and went very slowly tapping the bent cab back into it's original radius. Looked pretty good to me. The key word is HEAT, and SLOWLY.
J.B. Weld is your friend.. Buy some and have it on hand. It will fix anything.
How about trading that switcher for a nice 312,lol... I don't have any switchers on my layout, and have been wanting one for years.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Thanks Reckers, that's pretty much what I thought I'd do. Although my typical solvent has been Dawn and water in a spray bottle -- soak it down avoiding the graphics and use toothbrush to get in the nooks and crannies, a good rinse and hair dryer to dry, then light coat of Pledge brushing it around to get into the nooks and crannies again. Seems to work well with every piece I've done so far.

Flyer -- I already have a 312 which also needs servicing, sorry. But I have seen enough of these 0-8-0's at shows so they are readily available. Just gotta be willing to fork up the $$.....maybe I should use 3 $ signs as they are not cheap. But they are nice pieces when they are cleaned and polished. I like the light at the tail end of the tender too.

I am really geared up to start this piece, but have to go to a B-day party tonight with the missus. What's more important....cake n ice cream or trains......hmmmmm? Tomorrow I'll start on it or there might be a divorce proceeding with my collection up for sale here by her.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The part in the rear that's bent appears to be steel, so straightening that should be a lot easier than diecast. If you can remove it, I'd do that and straighten it off the engine to avoid breaking something in the diecast shell.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

GRJohn -- Yea. Won't really know until I start taking her apart, but it looks that way to me too.

I'll post more photos as I progress on this thing so you are all on the same page with me.
As mentioned in an earlier posting, I am not allowed to start on it tonight.....sob, sob


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Thanks Reckers, that's pretty much what I thought I'd do. Although my typical solvent has been Dawn and water in a spray bottle -- soak it down avoiding the graphics and use toothbrush to get in the nooks and crannies, a good rinse and hair dryer to dry, then light coat of Pledge brushing it around to get into the nooks and crannies again. Seems to work well with every piece I've done so far.
> 
> Flyer -- I already have a 312 which also needs servicing, sorry. But I have seen enough of these 0-8-0's at shows so they are readily available. Just gotta be willing to fork up the $$.....maybe I should use 3 $ signs as they are not cheap. But they are nice pieces when they are cleaned and polished. I like the light at the tail end of the tender too.
> 
> I am really geared up to start this piece, but have to go to a B-day party tonight with the missus. What's more important....cake n ice cream or trains......hmmmmm? Tomorrow I'll start on it or there might be a divorce proceeding with my collection up for sale here by her.


I'll answer that question for you.... TRAINS!!!!...lol...I'll throw in a nice little 302 on top of the 312,lol...And I know what you mean about the 3 $ dollar signs. That's why I don't have one yet.. Back to the bent piece.. The article I was referring to was in a Classic Trains issue, a long time ago. After re-reading my post, I saw that I didn't refer to any exact magazine,lol... Dummy me...


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Sorry, you need to sweeten the pot a lot more than that...LOL.

I see no reason to fix the bent step. If remember my previous postings, I have two tenders that I got off eBay for this girl -- one AC the other DC -- both tlook to be in excellent condition. However, one has the bent step, the other is flawless. So when the time comes, the 'nice' one will be used for my girl and the one with the bent step will go into inventory for a spare or future project. Perhaps some day, I might try the "heat and bend". But right now there is no need. And after reading all the raves about JB Weld on the forum, I made sure to have it handy just in case.

Tonight I start on her by removing the reverse unit, cleaning it and possibly replacing the fingers. The wiring to the jackplate plug seems to be good so I don't plan changing that unless I do something stupid. Then I'll clean/lube the wheels on the tender. I already see a need to order an item from Portlines -- the rear tender black grab ladder is missing -- but will wait until I gather a more complete list of everything I need so as to maximize my S/H charges. That should be enough for this evening and maybe the next too.


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## Reckers

You have our collective envy, Flyer.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well, it has begun. Forgive my use of some terminology as I still consider myself a newbie and I am not yet familiar with some of the terms/names of parts.

I started by working on the reverse unit in the AC tender that I got from eBay. It worked when power was applied but it kept sticking at every cycle. I removed the fingers and the drum to gain access to the pivoting plate. Funny observation, the finger tabs were not bent/twisted to retain the fingers in place. I was able to slip them right off. I used a small screwdriver to pry the drum pivot out of the housing wall on the side opposite from the ratchet asembly and removed it. I inspected the fingers and although the shape was good, they had tiny holes worn through the copper tabs where they ride on the drum, so they were discarded -- see photo (sorry for the poor quaity). I could save them for spares and add a small drop of solder to plug the holes as suggested by Tom Barker in his AF service book. But for a minimal $3.00 I can have a new replacement set -- which I have in inventory. The drum was naturally dirty and needed a good cleaning. I used contact spray, Q-tips and some good old-fashioned elbow grease to shine it up. Then I went to work on the pivot plate and the brass ratchet assembly. I sprayed everything liberally with contact spray and used Q-tips, paper towels and a toothbrush to clean all the built-up gunk, dirt and grease. I would spray more on each moving part and work them manually to be sure the solvent was getting into the pivoting areas to free them. After I was satisfied that it was sufficiently cleaned, I added a miniscule drop of oil in all pivoting points for lubrication -- the brass ratchet, the two points on the pivot plate and the two points of the drum when I re-inserted it. I soldered the wires to the new fingers and gave the copper tabs a slight bend downward so they would rest firmly on the drum when in place. Then I installed them, this time twisting the hold-down tabs ever so slightly to retain them. The bulb at the tender rear also failed so I replaced it with a #1449 clear 14V bulb. I applied power and the drum cycles perfectly each time I cycle the power. I prepared a video of this showing about 20 seconds or so of cycling action....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p03z7Ivqvjc&feature=g-upl

However, every once-in-a-while, the brass ratchet sticks. It did not do so during the video which was maybe 30 or so cycles. So for now I will not worry much about it. Perhaps as it works more often, this will resolve itself. The wheels of the tender still need a good cleaning and polishing which I'll get to on another evening. I am too anxious to get to the "real meat" of this baby -- the engine itself. Time to begin working on that.....


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## Nuttin But Flyer

To begin working the engine, I first removed the single screw on the bottom of the front pilot assembly and removed the assembly. The handrails that extend from the pilot to the boiler sides are just pushed into holes in the pilot so they are easily pulled free for removal. Then the boiler front plate/headlight assembly simply pulls out as two copper clips hold it in place. I then started to remove all the handrails and cotter pins. The cotter pins hold the long handrails on the boiler sides. These are very small with a loop at one end, one straight leg and one shaped much like a hair pin. The handrail slips through the loop and the legs of the cotter pin push iinto holes in the boiler. When this is inserted into the hole of the boiler, there is enough retention to keep the handrail in place. The other handrails are just pushed into holes in the boiler casting. The holes in the casting are sized just so the rails are held tightly. If anyone decides to fabricate their own hand rails as replacements, you need to be sure you use the correct diameter wire or they will either fall out or not fit into the holes. To remove the rails I used a small-bladed screwdriver, slipping it under the handrail at each fastening point and pried slightly to lift it off the boiler casting. Gently alternating this at each fastening point, eventually the handrail is removed. The same is done at each of the cotter pins that hold the main boiler side rails. When the cotter pins are gently pried out of their holes, a needle-nosed pliers can be used to pull them free. You need to be gentle with the cotter pins, prying them in steps. Start by prying gently at the first one, getting it slightly out, then moving to the next and so on, then repeating with the first and contrinuing down the line, repeating this procedure until they are all finally pulled outward enough to be free of the casting and grabbed with a pliers. To remove only one at a time, might tend to bend the handrail. I sorted the handrail pieces and taped similar ones (RH and LH) together, labeled them and set them aside to be cleaned later. Some cotter pins may be reuseable, some are in poor condition. I have some new ones in inventory that I can use. I have both the black and nickel ones -- these appear to be black but with so much dirt and gunk, it's hard to tell. Everything will be placed in a baggie to be cleaned later. The photos show the pilot and boiler front removed. Other photos show the handrails/cotter pins removed and sorted. I apologize for the poor quality. I had the camera on macro but it didn't work too well.  As I continue on this project, I hope to become a better photographer too. Time to call it a night and begin fresh another day......


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## Reckers

Very thorough description, Flyer----nice job! You're going to save a lot of future members a lot of confusion and stress. 
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn

Good descriptions, can I make one suggestion? When you write a lot of text, break it up into paragraphs, it makes it a lot easier to read and follow. The large amorphous blob of text is very hard to follow.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

GRJohn -- Good suggestion. I'll try to remember to do that from now on.

I might save future members stress, but my stress is peaking. I'm so fearful of breaking something that is unreplaceable....I guess Wicked Silence felt the same way when we coaxed him into fixing his Royal Blue in another thread. But his story had a happy ending.

I didn't mention it in the above postings, but I tested the headlamp bulb while I had the boiler front off. While testing it, the motor hummed each time power was applied. So I know that is a good sign. I'm sure a thorough cleaning and tune-up will resolve a lot on this girl. Although it might the first time I need to open up an AF smoke chamber to see what lies within.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Probably pretty ugly in there since it's an old engine. OTOH, it can probably be cleaned, those old locomotives are almost bulletproof!


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## flyernut

As I don't have or know anything about the A.F. switcher, let me ask a question. Is the tender light supposed to be on in the reverse direction, and off in the forward position? In your video the light is on in both directions? Just throwing it out.. My last 312 engine was in very much the same condition when I got it. Everything was rusted up tight, and you had to move gingerly when disassembling it.. I envy you!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Fnut -- I cannot answer that except to review the lamp wiring. the lamp socket is wired to the tender trucks -- maybe somewhat indirectly, but wired to them nonetheless. So much like the headlamp, I suspect it will always go on and off with the power to the track, no matter which direction it is set for. Since I did not change the wiring, I would say that is normal.

Sorry for not posting any progress. I had to do some outdoor work over the past few days. Winter will be coming before we know it and my yard was declared a disaster area by the EPA. With most of that behind me I hope to be sitting down in front of this girl tonight, barring any unforeseen circumstances.


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## flyernut

It would be kinda cool to have it lit in only the reverse direction, as I would think the real ones would have been.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I am not sure that can be done with the original reverse unit as it uses AC current. There is no determination when it is in reverse, is there?

On the other hand, it would be nice if it was red and blinked as it traverses the rails. I'm sure someone with electrical knowledge -- certainly not me -- could figure out some kind of circuit with an LED to do just that.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I am not sure that can be done with the original reverse unit as it uses AC current. There is no determination when it is in reverse, is there?
> 
> On the other hand, it would be nice if it was red and blinked as it traverses the rails. I'm sure someone with electrical knowledge -- certainly not me -- could figure out some kind of circuit with an LED to do just that.


It shouldn't be hard to figure out. You should be able to get the reverse power from the fingers.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can connect an LED (with diode and resistor) between the Hot side of the field and one of the armature connections. In one direction, those two points will be connected by the E-Unit and the light will be off. In the other direction, those two points will have the armature voltage across them and the light will be on. Connect the LED to the other armature connection if it's on in the wrong direction.


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## flyernut

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can connect an LED (with diode and resistor) between the Hot side of the field and one of the armature connections. In one direction, those two points will be connected by the E-Unit and the light will be off. In the other direction, those two points will have the armature voltage across them and the light will be on. Connect the LED to the other armature connection if it's on in the wrong direction.


You stated it better than me..


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## gunrunnerjohn

I figured some detail would be useful.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

OK my friends. I had a relatively successful evening last night with my new found girl.

I removed the steam chest and drive linkage from the boiler shell in order to remove the motor assembly. When removing the linkage, I kept the same screws from each side (LH and RH) taped together and labeled them according to the exploded view in the Gilbert AF Service Manual, using the item number of the part in the view (Item #1, #2, #3, etc.) and adding the actual part number -- see photos to understand how I sorted these items. By doing this, I should have no problem remembering where each belongs during re-assembly. I also removed the two small screws securing the jackplate at the rear cab of the boiler and fed it through the cab so the motor could be removed.

To remove the motor, the brass smoke stack insert also needed to be removed. To do this a bladed screw driver is inserted into the boiler smoke stack and placed in the notches of the insert which are cut into the top edge 180 degrees apart, then turned counter-clockwise to unscrew it out of the smoke unit mounted inside the boiler. This one was somewhat difficult to begin unscrewing but eventually came free. The threads of the insert almost appear to have a substance on them like a sealer or other material was used to help it seal. Can anyone confirm if a sealant is used on these when installed? I plan to install a new repro one for a mere $3.00 or so @ Portlines which I have on hand.

The last item to remove the motor from the boiler was to remove the headlamp wires from the smoke unit as the boiler front will not fit through the boiler opening. A simple soldering iron resolved this. Good thing too, as I carefully inspected those wires, one must have been pinched at one time and was showing a slight cut in the insulation. So I will replace these with new wires and be careful with the routing when re-assembling the unit.

The steamchest screw appears to be the only screw which secures the motor assembly in the boiler -- the rear of the motor is kept in place with cast ears inside the boiler casting. Once the single steamchest screw was removed the motor slips right out.

I took some photos of all the pieces on my desk so they can be reviewed, marked and placed into a bag for later cleaning and eventual installation.

I then began to disassemble the motor by removing the brush clips from the motor brush holder at the rear of the motor being careful to not let the springs fly out into the room never to be heard from again. I tried to remove the brushes too, but they would not slide out. Later I found out why......

I removed the two large screws that hold the brush holder onto the motor assembly and removed it exposing the armature and coil assembly. The brushes finally slid out after some coaxing. There was a lot of carbon residue all over the brush holder and the commuter plate. So it doesn't surprise me why they didn't want to slide out very easily.

There was not a lot of grease caked inside to prevent the armature from turning. As shown in the photos, the commuter plate is black with carbon. I suspect this was the sole reason it did not want to run.

I set everything aside and began using contact spray, Q-tips, and paper towels to clean each item, beginning with the brush holder. The Q-tips were black with carbon after several passes through the holder tubes and adjacent areas. It took a lot of cleaner and elbow grease to finally see a clean housing. A quick polish over the brush tubes with the Dremel and a brass wire brush put a nice clean shine to them. The oil wick was also black and will be replaced with a repro one.

I then went to work on the motor chassis which was caked up with old grease and dirt. I actually ran out of contact spray and, thank goodness, bought three cans earlier to have on hand or my evening would have ended there. It took a lot of scraping with a small-blade screwdriver, but I believe I got all the old grease/dirt out of the motor and gears. Using the force of the spray, I shot it through the chassis and behind the wheels to attempt cleaning the axles and backs of the wheels. I was unable to insert anything in there to scrape away the residue.

The motor looks pretty good now, but part of me is looking for it to be even cleaner. Could any damage be done if I spray the motor all over with Dawn and water mixture, use a toothbrush to scrub it all over, rinse it in a stream of cold water, then blow dry it? Sounds like I'm styling someone's hair -- would this be a beneficial task to get the motor looking cleaner or can this be damaging?

While thinking of doing that, I began to prepare the boiler casting for the Dawn/water bath by removing the whistle and bell from the casting. Both are simply pushed into their respective holes. Each is really a pin on the bottom half that has serrations which grip the boiler casting as they are inserted, making for a good, tight fit. To remove these, I inserted a small-blade screwdriver tip under each and pried ever so gently up. I did this all around the base of each item so as not to do so only in one spot. Once it was sufficiently and evenly rasied above the boiler casting, I used a needle-nosed pliers to grip and pull each item free. In this case, each of these was corroded terribly with rust, so the pliers was not going to damage either item any more than already. However, if you have a nice bell or whistle, you might want to use tape or something else to pad the pliers before grabbing these to pull free to prevent scratching or other damage.

I gripped both items with a needle-nosed pliers around the bottom pin portion to hold them and went to work on them with a wire brush in the Dremel to remove all the rust. The whistle doesn't look too bad, but the bell did not look as good as I hoped. Even after switching to a brass brush, neither one really shined. The whistle might be a keeper but for the price of new repros, I may just replace both of these.

This is as far I as I got last night. The armature and commuter still need a good cleaning as does the boiler casting, handrails and other related items. The brushes may well be used again, but they will need cleaning before inserting them as they are also covered in carbon debris. The brush springs look fine, so they will be reused.

The only part that looked bad was the one long screw which holds the smoke unit in place. For whatever reason, it seems sligthly bent and the threads are boogered. For the price of a new screw, I'll replace this.

With some important events upcoming in the next couple of days, I am not sure when work on this project will resume. Hopefully later this weekend I'll find some time to sit down and do more while watching some football and enjoying some of those cold ethanol beverages -- so stay tuned.

Review the photos and as always, comments, suggestions and tips are always welcome.


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## flyernut

A couple of thoughts... The hard substance around your stack probably is just hardened smoke fluid. I've found this many times in dis assembly. I believe someone else was in there before you. The reason I say this is I never saw red wires going to the headlight in any loco that I have torn down.
The motor does look a little crusty,lol.Just don't lose the small thrust washer on the shaft of the armature.The last plate on the armature should be at the same level as the field when assembled.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Thanks for that tip. I didn't lose the washer though, it is safely stored with all the other parts. While talking about that, should it be lightly greased or oiled before reassembly?

I can't confirm any of the wiring, but I did see red wires on another 342 to the brushes like mine. But to the headlamp -- who knows??? I'm replacing them anyway so it will be a moot point.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Thanks for that tip. I didn't lose the washer though, it is safely stored with all the other parts. While talking about that, should it be lightly greased or oiled before reassembly?
> 
> I can't confirm any of the wiring, but I did see red wires on another 342 to the brushes like mine. But to the headlamp -- who knows??? I'm replacing them anyway so it will be a moot point.


I use a little, tiny drop of oil.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I resumed some work on this project last night, cleaning the boiler shell, tender shell and handrails. Note the photos. The smaller handrails turned out quite well using a green Scotchbrite pad, elbow grease and the Dremel with a wire brush on some heavier rust. I then took the Dremel with a brass wire brush to give them a shine. Even though the longer boiler handrails turned out much improved over their previous condition, they still have some black or oxidized areas that just don't seem to want to come off. Photo #85 shows it rather well.

The tender and boiler shells were sprayed with Dawn and water mixture, brushed lightly with an old toothbrush -- carefully over any inked graphics -- then rinsed in cold water and finally blow-dried so as not to rust. Then repeated as necessary to remove all dirt and grime. Finally, to give them the nice, satin finish, a light coating of Pledge.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

The chassis was also cleaned and prepared for reassembly. It was getting late, but I had an itch to see if this girl would run. So I quickly reassembled the motor and plugged in the tender and applied power just to see if it would run. I had some disappointment as it would only run forward and not in reverse. It tried to run in reverse, humming and ever so slightly rotating the armature, but it could not do so, even after giving her a helping hand. As it was getting late, I did not go into investigating this further. However, I failed to follow my own recommmendation and replace the old brushes, opting to install the used ones setting right there on my desk. I was too anxious and a bit lazy to get up and get the new ones. Perhaps this is the reason it would not run in reverse?? But even so, it ran kind of poorly forward too. The armature seemed to stick ever so slightly until it got going and even then, it seemed to have a lot of fore-aft movement. Almost like it needs a thrust washer to take up the excess play. However, I double-checked the exploded views and the only washer shown is between the armature shoulder and the motor housing at the front. And per flyernut's suggestion I installed it with a miniscule drop of oil. It is apparent this girl will eventually run, it's now only a matter of determining why she is sluggish and sloppy. I will be resuming this project again very shortly at this point when time permits.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I resumed some work on this project last night, cleaning the boiler shell, tender shell and handrails. Note the photos. The smaller handrails turned out quite well using a green Scotchbrite pad, elbow grease and the Dremel with a wire brush on some heavier rust. I then took the Dremel with a brass wire brush to give them a shine. Even though the longer boiler handrails turned out much improved over their previous condition, they still have some black or oxidized areas that just don't seem to want to come off. Photo #85 shows it rather well.
> 
> The tender and boiler shells were sprayed with Dawn and water mixture, brushed lightly with an old toothbrush -- carefully over any inked graphics -- then rinsed in cold water and finally blow-dried so as not to rust. Then repeated as necessary to remove all dirt and grime. Finally, to give them the nice, satin finish, a light coating of Pledge.


Get some wet/dry 2000 grit paper. It WILL polish those rails right up.Scotch-brite pads will leave minute scratches but the 2000 grit will eliminate them, and will do some nice polishing.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

flyer -- I do have some of that and will take a shot at doing that.

Right now I'm somewhat baffled at getting this girl to run. I cleaned everything and reassembled the motor, plugged in the tender harness but she won't run well. It will run forward, and sometimes only after I help it start. It won't run reverse at all, even after I help it. I can hear it hum and see it trying to run in reverse, but it doesn't do so. When it is running forward, the armature seems to jump fore and aft in the motor housing. It almost appears like it should have another thrust washer, either at the front or the rear to prevent the movement. However, nothing was there when it was disassembled and certainly nothing appears in the exploded views, other than the thin one I already mentioned and am using. When it runs, the fore-aft movement of the armature is so violent I'm afraid it might strip the gear teeth.

The commuter face was cleaned nice and shiny. But after these short running tests, it appears black and filthy. I cleaned it again and this time used new brushes/springs, but the result was the same, the face becomes dirty and the engine only runs one way very sloppy.

The wiring is correct as I did not change it and the engine tries to run in reverse by making slight motion, but cannot. So it cannot be a wiring or reverse unit issue.

I tested both the field and commuter resistance -- each was within range @ 1.5 ohms.

I cannot be sure if this girl was once disassembled before I got it. So it is possible the parts it currently has are incorrect. I had hoped to compare the armature with another but I have no spares to do that. I could disassemble one of my other steamers and take a look-see. The same with the brush holder. But both appear to be no different than the others I am familiar working with.

I read in the manual that a shim/thrust washer is required when using a certain combination of armature and brush holder parts. Not sure if these parts I have is this combination or not as they show no part number info on either of them anywhere.

The fact that it does run one way and at least tries to run the other, tells me that it will eventually work. I just have to figure out why the armature is so sloppy in the motor housing. I believe once that is resolved, it will run well.

Anyone have some ideas??


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## Reckers

Don,

Sound like you're currently dealing with two separate issues: the armature bouncing and a dirt/carbon problem. Start with the armature and follow your instincts: add another thrust washer. I bought a hand-car that wasn't working, cleaned it up and had the armature-bouncing problem. Took it to my LHS and he looked it up: only one washer, just like I had it. Showed me the pic in the Gilbert manual. I added a second one on the other end of the armature and it cured the problem. Moral of the story is that you can be right and still be wrong because doing it the right way doesn't work. Make another washer out of a plastic playing card or something similar.

As for the dirt, you know not to bathe the armature and brushes in oil or put grease in the brush tubes. However, the previous owner may not have and you may have tubes greasing or oiling your brushes, and the heat of running may make it run down onto the commuter face. You're girl is getting her makeup somewhere, and you need to cut off the supply.

Best wishes,


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Reckers -- I like the way you put it "getting her make-up somewhere...".

I have been considering another thrust washer since I first saw it bouncing. I wasn't sure if that was the problem or if the armature (or the brush bracket) were not mated parts belonging to this engine. The space between the rear of the armature and the rear wall in the brush plate is quite large -- maybe 1/16"-3/32". One would think some play must remain. The use of a regular thrust washer, like that in front, or a playing card as you suggest, will only minimally reduce that gap as they are quite thin. Would that be enough? Does anyone manufacture/sell thrust washers as recommended parts for this purpose? I guess the local hardware store would have stainless washers in various thicknesses I could insert -- perhaps trial and error to obtain the right result.

As far as the brushes and their support tubes, I cleaned everything thoroughly with contact spray, Q-tips and lots of elbow grease. Those tubes sparkle and are debris-free. I even went over the old brushes to remove any excess carbon. And when the problem re-appeared, I switched to new brushes. I see sparking going on inside against the commuter when it does run (forward only). Isn't this how the "make-up" might be applied? I believe this is due to the shifting of the armature.

The commuter plate on the other hand, may be 'marked' by contact with the brush tubes due to its excessive movement. It is hard to tell, but areas on the copper do not seem the same across the entire diameter. I was hoping to insert another armature I know is good just to try it, but I have no spares -- only those in current steamers.


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## flyernut

Remove the linkage and try it again.This will eliminate any binding. It might be a quartering problem?? Just throwing it out there.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here are three videos I shot attempting to get her to run smoothly...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18qMzlRinVo&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkA26v3aJdw&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxxtECGEnq8&feature=g-upl

I don't mind saying I had a hell of a time trying to hold the loco, the camera and operate the transformer simultaneously -- note the shaky video.

Nonetheless, I think you will notice she bogs down for some reason, even stops. And she won't run in the other direction, no matter what I do to coax her. It takes me to push the armature or the wheels to get it going again.

I also have some photos (although not so good) showing the armature position installed, not that it is anything of consequence. I installed a thicker washer at the front of the armature in an attempt to cure the bouncing armature issue. But with the continued bogging, my guess is if this bogging issue was resolved, the armature would not be bouncing and a normal thrust washer could be used. Photo #12 shows the thicker washer in place at the front of the armature. Photo #10 shows the space remaining at the rear with the thicker washer installed.

I also thought about the linkage binding. But as #4 and #5 photos show, they seem nearly correct -- #4 showing the right side linkage at about 3 o'clock position and the left side linkage at just past 6 o'clock. There is no evidence to suggest the wheels were ever removed from this chassis, although I don't know if there really would be either. If this linkage turns out to be the issue, I do not have a quartering tool set to fix this and may need to send it out to someone better equipped. I guess the best way to check this issue would be to remove the linkage as suggested and see if it runs better.

The teeth on all the gears seem intact so I don't suspect them to be an issue either.

I'm open to suggestions as to what might be causing this bogging issue.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Here are three videos I shot attempting to get her to run smoothly...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18qMzlRinVo&feature=g-upl
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkA26v3aJdw&feature=g-upl
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxxtECGEnq8&feature=g-upl
> 
> I don't mind saying I had a hell of a time trying to hold the loco, the camera and operate the transformer simultaneously -- note the shaky video.
> 
> Nonetheless, I think you will notice she bogs down for some reason, even stops. And she won't run in the other direction, no matter what I do to coax her. It takes me to push the armature or the wheels to get it going again.
> 
> I also have some photos (although not so good) showing the armature position installed, not that it is anything of consequence. I installed a thicker washer at the front of the armature in an attempt to cure the bouncing armature issue. But with the continued bogging, my guess is if this bogging issue was resolved, the armature would not be bouncing and a normal thrust washer could be used. Photo #12 shows the thicker washer in place at the front of the armature. Photo #10 shows the space remaining at the rear with the thicker washer installed.
> 
> I also thought about the linkage binding. But as #4 and #5 photos show, they seem nearly correct -- #4 showing the right side linkage at about 3 o'clock position and the left side linkage at just past 6 o'clock. There is no evidence to suggest the wheels were ever removed from this chassis, although I don't know if there really would be either. If this linkage turns out to be the issue, I do not have a quartering tool set to fix this and may need to send it out to someone better equipped. I guess the best way to check this issue would be to remove the linkage as suggested and see if it runs better.
> 
> The teeth on all the gears seem intact so I don't suspect them to be an issue either.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions as to what might be causing this bogging issue.


If I'm reading right, one side of your loco is at 3 o'clock, and the opposite side is past 6 o'clock, right, linkage that is,lol?? If I'm not mistaken, the correct angle should be 88 degrees, making the side at past 6 o'clock wrong. I know 90 degrees will work on Atlantics, but I think with the multiple wheels such as yours, the quartering needs to be precise. If you haven't already remove the linkage and try her. It looks to me to be some sort of bind.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

As carefully pointed out by flyernut's keen eyesight, despite my lousy photos, he clearly called the binding issue as the linkage being off proper alignment. I removed the links on both rear gear-driven wheels and she runs like a top. However, in only one direction. Still haven't figured out why that issue remains. But obviously it needs to be quartered properly for whatever reason. I do not have the proper tools to perform that operation. Unless someone can offer an exact procedure without the tools, I think I'll have to send this girl out to someone who does have the tools and knowledge.

That leaves the issue of one-way running. I took Tom Barker's advice and direct-connected the power to the jack plug. It runs fine as it did when connected through the reverse unit. The only thing I need to try is to get her to run the other way while direct connected. I emailed om to request a method to direct connect it and have it run the other way. My limited electrical experience cannot figure how other than maybe reversing the brush connections??

More to follow......

BTW -- Nice catch flyernut !!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I just discovered an issue with the wire harness from the tender, as I move it around, the engine would start and stop while connected through the tender. I also played around with the wire harness while it was connected and again it starts and stops. When direct connected, it runs fine. Obviously, there is an issue with this harness -- either inside or at one end or the other.

As it is late now, I'll start again tomorrow by replacing the tender harness and see if this resolves the one-way running. Had I listened to Tom Barker in the first place, I might have found this issue a while ago. New lesson learned -- never doubt the Master!


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> As carefully pointed out by flyernut's keen eyesight, despite my lousy photos, he clearly called the binding issue as the linkage being off proper alignment. I removed the links on both rear gear-driven wheels and she runs like a top. However, in only one direction. Still haven't figured out why that issue remains. But obviously it needs to be quartered properly for whatever reason. I do not have the proper tools to perform that operation. Unless someone can offer an exact procedure without the tools, I think I'll have to send this girl out to someone who does have the tools and knowledge.
> 
> That leaves the issue of one-way running. I took Tom Barker's advice and direct-connected the power to the jack plug. It runs fine as it did when connected through the reverse unit. The only thing I need to try is to get her to run the other way while direct connected. I emailed om to request a method to direct connect it and have it run the other way. My limited electrical experience cannot figure how other than maybe reversing the brush connections??
> 
> More to follow......
> 
> BTW -- Nice catch flyernut !!!!


Outstanding buddy!! Glad you got her running, at least in one direction. It shouldn't be too hard now to get it going in both directions. Drop a note to Doug at Portlines and tell him what you need done. He should be able to properly quarter the loco for you.A quartering job here costs about $25 bucks for an Atlantic, probably more for a 0-8-0.


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## flyernut

There's a quartering tool on ebay from Port Lines. It's $85 bucks, but for a 1 time deal, not cost effective.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

If I remember, there are different quartering tools for difference locos -- one for Atlantics (4-4-2), one for Pacifics (4-6-2) and one for the Switcher (0-8-0). There may be one for the big Northerns (4-8-4) and Hudsons (4-6-4) for all I know. Just to buy one tool would not be cost effective for a one-time use, let alone investing in all of them to cover everything I own. There's no way of knowing if I would ever use them after the investment. I wish there was an easier way to do this, but I am unaware of any. So it makes sense to simply send it out to a professional as I intend doing.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> If I remember, there are different quartering tools for difference locos -- one for Atlantics (4-4-2), one for Pacifics (4-6-2) and one for the Switcher (0-8-0). There may be one for the big Northerns (4-8-4) and Hudsons (4-6-4) for all I know. Just to buy one tool would not be cost effective for a one-time use, let alone investing in all of them to cover everything I own. There's no way of knowing if I would ever use them after the investment. I wish there was an easier way to do this, but I am unaware of any. So it makes sense to simply send it out to a professional as I intend doing.


You're right on all accounts. I have many engines of all configurations except for the switcher, but I can't justify the quartering tool, even for the atlantics, which I have many. You just don't need to quarter engines that often.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

OK, the news gets better....using a diagram from Tom Barker, I direct connected the engine to by-pass the reverse unit. It runs perfectly forward...then changing the connections per Tom, it also runs perfectly in reverse. Obviously the need to change the wiring harness is the problem with the one-direction running.

I also contacted Doug Peck @ Portlines who quoted $15 to do the quartering. To me that is a drop in the bucket compared to the value this great running engine should have when finished.

As soon as the harness is installed and tested, I'll be sending my baby off for Doug to cure. I miss her already......


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## gunrunnerjohn

If it's running perfectly in both directions, does it really need quartering? Do you have the rods off?


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## flyernut

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If it's running perfectly in both directions, does it really need quartering? Do you have the rods off?


I believe he does John.


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## gunrunnerjohn

flyernut said:


> I believe he does John.


That would 'splain it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Just when things were looking up........

In my attempt to move the loco out of the way, a wire broke off the field coil. There is little of the residual sticking out of the hole where it extended (see photo) to try to solder it. It appears to be the inside end of the wire coil. The end can be seen inside the tiny hole in the "wing" closest to the front, just adjacent to the tape (note the tiny copper-colored spot).

I see no way to reattach this wire as it cannot be pulled out from the inside and I doubt placing the broken wire on top of it with a blob of solder will work to reconnect it.

I'm thinking this coil is finished and will need to be rewound. I do not have a spare. If anyone out there can offer a suggestion or is willing to sell a spare field, I'm open to negotiatations.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Now we're back to good again....

I found an old 302AC that I bought on eBay some time back and it uses the same field assembly. I checked it and it rated at 1.5 ohms. As it is late, I shall pick up here tomorrow by installing it in the Switcher and repair the harness. Once running again, I'll fire it off to Doug for quartering.

Sorry for the repititious postings. I just want to keep everyone updated.


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## Stillakid

Nuttin, if you have wire in the wing, you have more than enough to make a repair. Gently remove the wire from the wing and bend it up and away from the wing. Use a sharp razor to gently scrape some of the laquer off of both pieces(nub & lead), and then thread the lead back into the wing. Here's where you need a "Third Hand!"

You can solder the wires and then use a section of heat wrap that's been split open and used to cover the exposed solder joint.

I've saved several fields this way and all are still intact and performing well.
Learned this from T-Man!!!!

Good Luck!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

In answer to a previous posting, yes I do have the rods off. That's why she runs so well. When connected, it binds. So quartering is still needed.

In answer to the field, I found an old one from a "parts only" eBay purchased #302AC that I'll use to get this girl up and running again. Then using Tom Barker's book, I'll try to learn how to rewind a field coil on the one I broke.

Figure sometime down the road it is something I'll need to do eventually. Might as well learn how now. And it would make good material to post here for future generations of Flyer guys.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> In answer to a previous posting, yes I do have the rods off. That's why she runs so well. When connected, it binds. So quartering is still needed.
> 
> In answer to the field, I found an old one from a "parts only" eBay purchased #302AC that I'll use to get this girl up and running again. Then using Tom Barker's book, I'll try to learn how to rewind a field coil on the one I broke.
> 
> Figure sometime down the road it is something I'll need to do eventually. Might as well learn how now. And it would make good material to post here for future generations of Flyer guys.


I have had the same thing happen to me. I pulled out some wire as suggested. I also, at one time, bought several feet of the wire insulation from someone on ebay. I have it stockpiled away in case of this exact need.I'm sure any good train shop would have it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Tom Barker suggested Radio Shack in his book, but the only thing I found on their website was a three pack of spools with one of the gauges not useful for this purpose. Amazon offers enameled wire as does eBay for roughly $18 for a decent size spool. Like flyernut, I'll get some of each gauge and have it stocked away for this sort of need. Gotta learn how to do this sometime. Parts aren't always gonna be available.


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## gunrunnerjohn

It's also possible to rewind those if you care to. Those are actually pretty easy, some coils are a lot more difficult to wind.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Found an online electronics vendor (MCM) that sells tons of stuff, including enameled wire. Got three rolls on order -- one #24, one #26 and one #30 -- all rolls are 1/4 pound each so they differ in length. But one roll is enough to do the job over a few times. So these will make good stock for future projects. Each was about $8-$9.


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## flyernut

I have a secret source that has NOS fields..


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It must be pretty secret if you are not going to share it with us......Area 51?


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> It must be pretty secret if you are not going to share it with us......Area 51?


If someone needs one, I'll get one.. But other than that, I can't tell you, lol.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Although my inspection of the original wire harness showed no breaks or issues, I installed a new harness anyway. But that didn't solve the issue of running in only one direction as I had hoped. I again tested the engine by direct connection and it runs perfectly each way. But runs only one way when I connect it through the tender reverse unit. I have played with the fingers as one set looked like it was not contacting the drum, but that made no difference.

Obviously, the trouble lies within the reverse unit or the tender. So with that in mind and the engine chassis needing quartering, I have packaged the motor chassis and sent it to Portlines to have the quartering done. Meanwhile, I'll grab an engine I know works and use it to continue to diagnose the problem with this tender and reverse unit running only one way.

Sometimes this work can become very frustrating...I guess that's why we all feel so good when a problem is finally solved. I'm looking forward to that feeling.


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## flyernut

I always have a spare tender in working order for diagnosing problems with my engines. I also have a spare engine that I use for diagnosing problems with tenders. Let me ask a real stupid question.... Is the reverse lock-out on??? This will cause the loco to run only in forward. Just throwing it out there.. I become very frustrated with my trains on occasion, and that's when I sit back and do something else, or just stare at the darn thing wishing bad things would happen to it,lol It can be VERY frustrating!!! I have a beautiful K335 Northern,(4-8-4), that I bought off ebay. Perfect in every way but it wouldn't run on my layout. It would run about 2 feet and that was it! The problem was that it would run perfect on my treadmill but on the layout, nothing.I doubled checked everything I could think of, and found nothing wrong. It turned out that one of the white insulators was loose on the wheel, causing the chassis to short out when out the layout, but not on the treadmill.Stupid trains!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yea, the lockout would be an easy fix, but that is not it. The drum is rotating and contacting the fingers. The motor armature evens turns slightly with power applied but then stops and doesn't move. But when I reverse direction with the unit, she runs fine. Go figure?? It will eventually come to me.

Like your suggestion about "good" spare units ofr diagnosing. Think I'll look to have those on hand as soon as I can get the items together. Thanks.


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## Stillakid

Nuttin, if the fingers are all in good shape and making contact, it could be that you have a "bad" drum. Since the drum is advancing properly, you know that the coil in the reverse unit is working. The drum drives the direction. I'd also check all your solder connections. Just a thought


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Kid - I plan to do just that whenever I get the chance to return to my hobby desk. So many other things are taking my time away from this. I do have a couple of spare drums to try if need be. Just seems funny that it does the same thing after soldering a new harness in place. Maybe the drum is bad??


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## Nuttin But Flyer

My hobby desk was a mess when I returned to this project, so I spent some time putting things away and discovering parts that were just sitting around. I wrapped, labeled and stored those parts and did a general cleanup to make room to do more on this project.

Grabbed the Dremel with the brass wire brush and started working to clean and shine the drive linkages. Apparently it takes a great deal of practice to use a Dremel properly and I am not the person to seek for advice. What was once a decent, full bristled wire brush has now been shredded to nearly no bristles at all. Yea, I know only the tips of the brush are supposed to contact the surface of the material. But it takes a steady hand to do that. After all, I'm nearing retirement age and I have done more than my share of eliminating ethanol beverages from the world. Steady hands are not part of my normal characteristics. The linkages I did get to finish look great -- clean and shiny. They will look good once my girl comes back from having her shoes adjusted. A quick scan of both the Home Depot and Lowes websites show that they each carry replacement wire brushes for the Dremel at about $5 each. Not bad. At that rate I can get the knack for holding the tool properly and not spend too much while I'm learning.

Maybe I can get to checking that reverse unit tonight if I have the time and figure out if power is being transmitted in both directions, and if not, why.


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## gunrunnerjohn

There are a lot better ways to use the Dremel, and a lot cheaper places to buy the wire brushes.

Most of my polishing is done with homemade ScotchBrite wheels, I just cut them and put them on a mandrel. I also buy my Dremel stuff from Widget Supply for a fraction of what the Dremel brand costs.

Here's my ScotchBrite polishing pad, just buy the sheets and cut them out.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Cool John - I like that one. I have everything I would need to make them. Thanks for the tip!! :thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn

Once you use them, you'll never go back to wire wheels that spit needles all over the place!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

IDK, maybe I need to learn how to use the Dremel. I tried this idea, which sounded like a great one. However the green pad simply disintegrated and left my linkage with a dull finish. It can be one of two things -- either I'm a lamebrain when it comes to using a Dremel tool and I have lots to learn or it's the cheap pads I bought at the dollar store. I'm considering that it might be the cheap pads as I was quite careful to polish my part with only the mere edge of the pad I cut out. Maybe real Scotchbrite pads are the way to go??


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## gunrunnerjohn

I use the actual scotchbrite pads, and I'm using the red ones, they're a bit more aggressive. They're not good for every task, but they do great for removing rust.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

These rods have very little rust, if any. They are covered in what appears to be a thin oxidation. The brass wire brush really did a good job of removing the film and bringing out the shine. The only problem was how I was using it, losing all the bristles. I still need a new one, so I'll buy two to have on hand. But I do have some blue scotchbrite pads that I'll try with the Dremel. If they also disintegrate, I may go to the "real" scotchbrite pads (green or red) or simply go back to the brass brush.


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## flyernut

Hey Don, don't buy the cheap ones you see at train shows, Harbor Frieght,etc. They will throw bristles out like bullets!! I bought a bunch of them years ago at a show, I think they were 4 for a buck or something, and they were junk. I now spend a little more and get the Dremel brand ones. By the way, your package went out Wed. pm.And don't you dare send any cash for shipping; I'm glad I could help out. I hope they come by this weekend, it will give you a little "thought" project for the winter.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Tried a blue Scotchbrite pad I had laying around, a "REAL" Scotchbrite pad, and it didn't do well either. In fact, the rod now looks as if the finish is coming off. It has left a dull area where I used it -- the rest of the link still seems somewhat shiny. I am dropping the Scotchbrite idea for shining the linkage. I'll try using it for rust removal only.

So I bought two conical brass wire tips and two circular/horizontal/flat brass wire tips @ Lowe's last night for a mere $16 and change. These are Dremel brand. We'll see how well they work next chance I get. Maybe I'll learn how to use this tool before these wear out.


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## gunrunnerjohn

For strictly polishing metal, I agree that the Scotchbrite may be too aggressive. If there is no rust or other corrosion, I use the Dremel felt polishing wheels and their polishing paste. Actually, I use the cheap alternative from Widget Supply, but they accomplish the same thing. They don't throw little needles around and they're more gentle than the wire brush or the Scotchbrite.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Shoot! -- I didn't get any polishing paste, guess I should have gotten some of that when I bought the brushes. Is there any alternative that can be used in its place?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, you can get it locally I imagine, any sort of metal polish would probably do. 

Note that there are lots of applications for using the Dremel, and in a large part, it's simply experience that teaches you what is the best use for the task at hand. I tend to experiment a bit with various options to see what the results are, then I know how to proceed when I have a task to accomplish. As you've discovered, there are wire brushes of various types, nylon brushes, you can do the Scothbrite trick in various levels of aggressiveness, and then there's the polishing wheels and all the different media you can use with them.


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## flyernut

Now don't laugh, but I've used toothpaste as a abrasive/polisher on many items, including tail-light lenses on one of my antique cars.It's a very mild abrasive, and besides, it smells good.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You're not the first one to suggest toothpaste, and you can get it in various levels of abrasiveness.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I think it's women that come in various levels of abrasiveness......

Gonna get my little girl (0-8-0 Switcher) from Doug Peck tomorrow at York, PA East Div. Train Show after having her quartered. Hopefully he remembered to bring her along. Gonna pick up a ton of parts as well. Maybe see some of you there???


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## Nuttin But Flyer

A bit of disappointment, Doug was unable to have my lil' girl ready by the York Show. However, while purchasing a variety of parts for my many other projects, as well as parts to replenish my stock, he did promise to send her as soon as he finished quartering the wheels. I have plenty of other projects to keep myself busy until she returns. So it will be a bit longer before I can add to this thread. But I'm sure the finished result will be worth the wait.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> A bit of disappointment, Doug was unable to have my lil' girl ready by the York Show. However, while purchasing a variety of parts for my many other projects, as well as parts to replenish my stock, he did promise to send her as soon as he finished quartering the wheels. I have plenty of other projects to keep myself busy until she returns. So it will be a bit longer before I can add to this thread. But I'm sure the finished result will be worth the wait.


Bummer!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I can live with it -- unless your just upset waiting for the next progress installment?


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I can live with it -- unless your just upset waiting for the next progress installment?


Why certainly..


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## Nuttin But Flyer

FINALLY ! My little girl is back home. I found the box on the porch last night. My desk is a total mess or I would have applied power to see how she runs. But expect to see more progress here very shortly and hopefully a quick climax to this project.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Finally got to spend some time with the 0-8-0 and resolved my previous issue. If everyone recalls it would not reverse, only work forward when connected through the tender. When direct connected, it worked in both directions like a charm. Well, I found the previous wiring was incorrect. After detailing the connections with the wiring diagram, I found two leads were interchanged at some time. I reversed them and viola!! she runs great both ways. :thumbsup:

I now have the motor back into the cleaned boiler and the tender body is back in place with the reverse unit cycling perfectly each time power is applied. I had to replace two wires -- one in the boiler for the headlamp and one in the tender for the reverse unit to rear tender pickup. I still seem to have a problem at the jack panel -- whether one lead is loose, needs better solder or the jack plug is damaged -- not sure. But will take a closer look at that next time. 

The drive linkage has been a slight issue as I installed it incorrectly a couple of times. But I think now I have it correct as it runs well. The only thing that seems to happen is that part of the linkage sounds as if it is hitting another part, perhaps a nut head as it rotates. I have bent the linkage outward to avert this issue and hope that resolves it. One would have thought the spacers would prevent this from occurring, unless I still have it installed incorrectly. I matched it up with photos of similar switchers and it looks very much like I have it right. Any thoughts on this?? 

Other than what is mentioned here, she is beginning to look great and runs well, smokes like Hell too. All in all, a great find in my basement 'box of gold".


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## flyernut

Without getting up and checking, I think the linkage should be 90 degrees from one side to the other.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well one thing I just noticed, I have the RH linkage on the left side and vice-versa. That certainly will make a difference......DOH !!! After all the painstaking measures to keep track of these things, marking them and separating them, I make a dumb, amatuer mistake like that. Guess this is why I'm recording this procedure for all mankind.

Time to switch them and report back here......


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Well one thing I just noticed, I have the RH linkage on the left side and vice-versa. That certainly will make a difference......DOH !!! After all the painstaking measures to keep track of these things, marking them and separating them, I make a dumb, amatuer mistake like that. Guess this is why I'm recording this procedure for all mankind.
> 
> Time to switch them and report back here......


Now you're starting to work like me.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here she is --- all dressed up and ready to go!!

http://youtu.be/NSylAjX7wlQ

http://youtu.be/lMtH6y4GLbc

Compare the photos now with what was originally taken when I began this project...obvious differences.

She has yet to see a track, but I feel she isready to pull some cars. At Christmas I plan to set up a small oval of track, maybe a couple of sidings and run some trains for my 1-year old grandson. This will certainly be one that runs. I'll include video of it then. In the meantime, I hope my experiences, good and bad, were helpful to everyone. If there are questions, feel free to ask them and I'll answer them best I can.

Moving on to another project which I plan to post in the forum as well. 

Thank you all for the assistance and suggestions. Without you and them, this would never have been the success it is. :thumbsup: to you all.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Oh **** !!  I cleaned off my hobby desk and put all my tools and things away and found the heavy paper sleeve that is supposed to cover the smoke unit. I assume this prevents shorting of the smoke unit terminals against the boiler shell. I guess I have to remove the motor/chassis one more time and replace this paper as surely if I don't I'll have a problem down the road. hwell:


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## flyernut

Nice.. I need one.. Just a quick question, did you convert the tender to knuckle couple from link, or did you buy it that way?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

That tender was one of two I got from eBay. One had the reverse unit inside for AC operation, while the other must have been for a DC version as it contained nothing but two wires coming through. The one with the AC unit turned out having a bent step. So I took the body off the DC version and added it to the one for AC operation. The knuckle coupler was there when I got it. I plan to change it back to link as this engine was designed for link operation with the horizontal bar across the front pilot assembly. Besides, the person who installed the knuckle didn't do it properly.


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## tjcruiser

Don,

The transformation looks fabulous! (I embedded a before and after pics.). I especially like the detailing on the drive rod components and the handrails ... nice work!

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Thanks TJ. But if not for the folks here, I would not have known how to proceed. I owe them my gratitude for this project. Just need to do this last item I discovered late last night -- that of reinserting the heavy paper shield around the smoke unit. Shouldn't take more than an hour or so to disassemble and reassemble. Just hate having to do so after all I did. She looks so nice right now.


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## tjcruiser

A black Sharpie pen can touch up those shell scuff marks. When you apply it, it will have a slight purple sheen. That disappears with time and/or a rub with your finger (and a little skin oil).


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Cool !! Thanks for the tip. However, I don't mind that she looks a bit worn. Considering her age, she looks pretty damn good. A ton better than Anita Ekberg in that other thread.


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