# the best rolling stock.



## mkschram (Feb 8, 2010)

Okay, I am new to the hobby and am really confused as to which rolling stock to use or purchase. There are so many different styles of cars and such, I would like to know what the big differences are. Is there something I should be paying attention to other than price or what??


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## alcoman (Nov 4, 2009)

The very lowest level cars have coarse detail, plastic wheel sets, truck mounted couplers and and no easy way to adjust the way the trucks mount to the cars. The next step up has body mounted couplers and the trucks are held on with screws so you can adjust how much play is in the trucks. As the price goes up, you are (hopefully) getting finer details, more add on parts(as opposed to molded on), better wheels and more accurate paint schemes.

The very bottom of the quality ladder isn't much fun, but you don't have to spend a fortune to get good performers, either.


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## B.C.RAIL (Sep 1, 2008)

*Sooo many choices!!*

Well, wheather it's for a real railroad or a fictional railroad(fake). It's really up to you. Yes there are many many types of rolling stock. But also depends on era and railroad..and of course your budget and the amount of room you have. Boxcars are a common sight because they carry pretty much any cargo. and flatcars too. But with each type of car there are many variations.
Find a list of all of the common types of rolling stock and narrow it down to a group of cars you are intested in. And buy a few and try them out and see if they are what you think you'll buy more of. I can't really put ideas into your mind but I like boxcars, flatcars and grain cars and tank cars and of course cabooses. But that's just me.  Ususally short lines focus on a couple types of cars for hauling limited items, like coal, sulphur, oil, ore..etc. When it comes to brand of rolling stock well...that depends if you're a rivet counter or not. And how much your willing to pay. In the end it's up to you.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Buy what your pocketbook can afford. Just because it is expensive doesn't mean it's the best. The less you spend on each piece the more pieces you can have. For years, Athearn Blue box was the mainstay of the hobby, inexpensive kits. The trend today is toward RTR. While some are a bit more detailed, with crisper detail, they are also more expensive. And the added expense is not necessarily justified. One still has to change out couplers if going with a product like Kadees. Take the car apart if its to be weathered, etc. 

IMO, the RTR's are a real pain in the butt and the pocketbook when one has to take the thing apart to do all of this. They should have remained in kit form. There are still kits available, and most are cheaper than RTR's. It's your choice.

Bob


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## mkschram (Feb 8, 2010)

Thanks for the advice, guys. Yeah, there sure are a lot of choices out there for quality and price. I just want my trains to perform with minimum hassle. I want my kids to be able to run the trains without any problems. They loose interest very quickly if they have to fiddle with things to much.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Take a look at Atlas. Arguably on of the better products out there.

Bob


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*I Will Miss My Blue Boxes!*

Try the Athearn Blue box Kits for that "Look What I did feeling". They are still out there but since Athearn pulled the plug and is going with RTR they are goiung fast. Walthers also makes kits and you can find them on Ebay too. As Bob said let your pocket book lead you!


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## Eric97123 (Dec 13, 2009)

I am new to the hobby as well and I like the Bachmann Silver Series. Get them for about $8 at modeltrainstuff.com, they roll smoothly, have decent detail and since I am try to get my weathering down, if I screw it up, I am out only $8 instead of $25 or more.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

For RTR the Bachmann Silver Series are good for the price. I prefer kits. I have made allot of Roundhouse ones and they have always run well. The Athern Blue Box are good too. They some times need a little weight added, especially the stock cars, to track like I want them to. For a little more money Bowser makes an excellent kit. I would avoid the entry line Life Like, Model Power and Bachmann as they have talgo style trucks, poor axle / wheels and are light.


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## Lester Perry (Nov 7, 2008)

If you are close to a shop that specializes in model railroading. Go there and ask for Athearn blue box. I know of a few cases where they have removed them from shelves and put them in the back room to make shelf space for RTR. Also try train shows. Another brand which has not been mentioned is Accurail.


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## Lester Perry (Nov 7, 2008)

I just checked out E bay and there are some real good possibilities there.
* Home > * Buy >* Toys & Hobbies >* Model RR, Trains >* HO Scale >* Athearn >*Search results for "blue box"


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## subwayaz (Dec 26, 2009)

Rollingstock well

*Freight Equipment*

Tangent
Exact Rail
Atlas & Trainman
Intermountain
Athearn
Con Cor
Bachmann

There are many specialty manufacturers out there but for the main stream those are my picks

*Passenger cars now*

Rapido
Intermountain
Walthers
Athearn
Bachmann


Th


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

In HO, add Bowser, Funaro and Carmalengo, Chooch, Red Caboose, Mantua(especially their "Classics" line), BranchLine, Rivarossi, LifeLike Proto 1000 and 2000....... All better than ConCor(I wouldn't walk across the street if they were giving these away) or plain Bachmann. Bachmann's Spectrum line is nice, but Bachmann's quality ends there.

And I guess that we can add Athearn Blue Box and call them "mainstream". There are still enough of them to last a long time, even if Athearn decided to screw the pooch and discontinue them. Dollar for dollar, they are STILL the best buy. And I'd bet a dollar to a donut that there are more Athearn BB cars riding the rails than any other manufacturer offering.

Bob


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

In S Scale, American Flyer!


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## Lester Perry (Nov 7, 2008)

Reckers said:


> In S Scale, American Flyer!


Wrong forum, oh sorry:laugh:.


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## mkschram (Feb 8, 2010)

Okay, now I have an idea of what to look for, so now I am going to make my local hobby shop the next stop and see what they have to offer. They specialize in model trains and have a pretty decent selection of stock and the prices aren't bad either. Thanks all for the input.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

i never bought any rolling stock from store. couple items from ebay but mostly craiglist and forums. much easier on the wallet


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## dougget (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm fortunate to have a train shop near by that buys and sells used stuff. They go to estate sales and buy full collections then sell them at e-bay prices in the store. So, I've found a few gems in the $3 to $7 range with no shipping fees  Plus, it's fun to look through the 'new' stuff every 4 to 6 weeks.
Doug


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## mkschram (Feb 8, 2010)

Yes, I just found a local hobby shop that offers used train stuff too. I haven't been able to check it out lately, but do intend to very soon.


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## modeltrainhead (Nov 15, 2009)

i say athearn blue box


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

bluebox lacks metal wheels. those need to be purchased separatley.

i must add i'm really pleased with goldline cars i got from walthers.


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Walthers/Athearn*

Those Athearn Blue Box kits are wonderful to kitbash and Walthers Goldline has terrific detail...and metal wheels. Grab those Blue Box kits cuz they are going fast. I just picked up 5 ATSF Box car kits for a litle over $6.50 a piece...and my LHS Owner just doesn't agree with Athearn about the move to all RTR. The Goldline series is really nice and affordable.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Lester Perry (Nov 7, 2008)

I think it depends on what you are looking for. The blue box worked great for me as the RTR stuff wasn't around in the mid 90s. If I were starting now I would go nuts looking for the BB rolling stock. I have 300 plus cars on my layout and it is not a display but an operating R.R. I don't need the brake linkage under the car or door latches on a box car. The bb was perfect for me.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Athearn BB kits did many things for the hobby. It was an inexpensive, easy to assemble, well detailed for the price piece of stock. It's not a "Walther's Gold Line", nor an Atlas Platinum. Which by the way are more than 10x the cost of some Athearns. I have kits that are price @$3.75!!!!

As far as adding metal wheels, not at all necessary when one has a smallish layout and can't run many cars at a time. Metal wheels do ride the rails better, but when I ran stock plastic wheels, troubles were few.

Athearn was the "meat" of the hobby, giving beginners, and old-timers alike, an affordable, quality product.

Bob


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## Lester Perry (Nov 7, 2008)

Bob I sometimes wonder what happened to the hobby. I know my LHS owner. He told me he has a lot of BB in a back room on shelves collecting dust. The reason, nobody wants them. Every body wants RTR. Everyone on the internet cries about no more BB. There is apparently no market for them. I guess no one wants to sit down with a dozen BB or Roundhouse kits and spend 3 or 4 hours of an evening putting them together. Or get an unpainted GP30 and paint it for their favorite road.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have to agree with what everyone is saying about the Blue Box and Roundhouse kits. I dove back into this hobby about a year and a half ago. 50% of my stock are kits. Most of those are Roundhouse. I also run three Blue Box engines. My main source has been hobby shop clearance sales. Unfortunately that is a limited supply. The other is shows, there are only two a year of a decent size in this area that I am aware of. With EBay shipping drives the cost up. I guess I am just to late to the party. When I was younger I wanted ready to run but now I want ready to build.


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Send them to ME!!*

Wow Lester,
We have about 35 kits left at our LHS and as I stated before the owner just can't fathom why Athearn would pull the plug....obvious production reasons. Tell your man to put those baby's up for auction on Ebay and watch them disappear...cuz I'll be all over them!!:laugh: Oh by the way GREAT Photo!


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

About the middle of last year, there were "rumblings" that Athearn would drop the BB kits. No one, including many shop owners, could believe the "rumor". Not could many hobbyists. Still, the present situation does not reflect the response that Athearn has gotten. I'm sure thinking that their mailbox and email were flooded with complaints.

I have very few RTR cars. Engines for years have been pretty much RTR, with the exception of having to apply detail parts like railings, horns, couplers, and such. Not much "kit-like" in my opinion.

But, there are those, even on this forum, that cast their lot and in doing so, led to the demise of the BB kit. And, oddly, the rave about the detail of RTR cars. I must laugh at them, because in order to weather, change couplers(if need be), wheels, and other such things, the car is usually , in some manner, disassembled. Isn't that a bit peculiar? 

We have become an "instant gratification" group. Those newly entering the hobby want layouts and stock like those of use that have supported the hobby for years and years. I hate to point a finger at any one group, but I think those that have joined us in the past 10 years or so have ruined the hobby forever with their "want it now" attitude. Sure their are still some that are "throw backs" to a time when Athearn BB's were the staple of the hobby. But, most hobbyists, now, are "wanting it now".

Here's your soap box back........ 

Bob


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Are we ever Dinosaurs!*

Bob you sound like the NOSTRADAMUS of Model Railroading!:laugh: But your message has a great deal of truth to it. Kids now days just want it now and their parents cave into their wishes. Go to a Yard sale or Garage sail sometime and see the vast amounts of toys,video games that are for sale because the kids just get bored with stuff and its disposable. When was the last time you saw kids outside after school playing baseball or football in neighborhood pickup games....thing of the past. NOW I"M ON MY SOAP BOX....gotta enlighten these kids and young parents to the basics of this Hobby.:thumbsup: Get your hands dirty with paint,glue and don't worry about screwing up something...you can always fix it....thats the fun of this hobby...its not perfect, yet we still strive for perfection in what we want out of our Great Hobby! This was a paid political announcement for MacDaddy55!:laugh:


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

One thing that has really grabbed my goat here, McDaddy, is the fact that manufacturers, and some of the "newbs" that support RTR, are proclaiming a "victory", of sorts. They say that they can spend more time now working on their layouts. I say that's a bunch of BS. They spend more time now at work, more time at leisure, and the same amount of time with modeling. Nothing has changed. Still the RTR's must be disassembled, weathered, couplers changed, and wheelsets adjusted or changed out. They have actually created MORE work for themselves.

And we must add in the increase in price!!! What we could once have for $5-$10 and a bit of effort, now costs $25 or more. Where in the hell does one figure that is a fair trade-off? They, those that support RTR, have just cut their roster by 50% or more, considering the price differential. 

I would venture a guess that no one on this board, or any other board for that matter, has near the rolling stock I own. Mostly Athearn BB, though most have been detailed. With nearly 4000(no typo) cars, about 95% kits, I doubt that anyone could imagine owning the same number with the prices of RTR. Many of my cars have prices on the box of $3.75 or in that neighborhood. When was the last time you saw a passenger car for less than $15? I have many in the $11 range.

Some say that RTR is more detailed. Maybe true. But, I will place one of my $3.75 40' box cars next to your $25 RTR 40-footer and would bet that you couldn't tell the difference. In Fact, my box cars have metal grabs, coupler releases, Kadee #5's, undercarriage details, and metal wheels. All of the detail work and the car cost me less than $10-$12. And I had the benefit of some "quiet time", you can't buy that. 

So, all of those that have supported RTR, you may have driven a nail in the coffin of the hobby. It was expensive enough as it was. Add in the price increases, more than triple in some cases, of buying RTR, you may have driven off many who might have taken the leap. It will become a hobby for those blessed with a good income. My beginnings were modest, and continue to be such. I took the stairs and not the elevator. 

Bob


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*ObeeWan has spoken!*

Bob you nailed it. How in Gods Green Earth can someone say they can spend more time on their layout w/ RTR Rolling stock......amazing in itself. I have roughly 125 blue box cars that I've been putting together for close to 20yrs a slew of old buildings that we have collected in that same time period....slap happily put together,painted and weathered as we went. My son the Future Aerospace engineer was building Battleships,planes,.....and Athearn Blue boxes at the age of 7. There is something about putting your imagination into a Layout and (through reference materials) showing that in what you run on it. Once again are we going the way of the dinosaur......not me brother, I'll go down swingin with my Model Kits in hand preachin the Good Book of Kitbashing!! Dang it all....THERE I GO AGAIN gettin preachy! Nuff Said...amen brother!


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

I must say, before any think I'm an obsessive-compulsive when it comes to trains, I inherited much of my stock. When Dad died in 1999, I got his trains. I also had a buddy pass this fall. His two children did not want his trains and knew that he and I "played" with trains. So, they gave them to me. Dad had over 1500 cars and engines, and my pal had about the same. 

So, if you think I bought them all, nope. Still, with my 1000 or so that I can honestly call my own, most are kits, Athearn kits. I used to be able to buy ten cars and not bust a $100 bill. Surely can't do that now.

Bob


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Something to leave behind!*

Its all about building TRADITION in the family unit. Now Bob your Dad must have meant alot to you as did mine....and he left you(HOLY HANNAH....HOW MANY CARS!!) his collection. I will certainly do the same with my two kids(who really think this whole train thing is WAY COOL!) when its time to punch my ticket. Just passing on all the wealth of knowledge and memories of this hobby to the future modelers is kinda neat in a way My son is a serious Railroader and will be giving me my Christmas present this summer....helping me wire our Layout...that Engineering degree is gonna payoff. So it all started with a put together Box car and the rest is history. So long Blue Box our old friend!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

i see model railroading as a package of hobbies. you have to be carpenter, mechanic, electrician, sculptor, painter, good with electronics, photographer (to present your work) to name a few. while i'm strong in some fields and weak in others i'm striving for best. but assembling kit cars is not something i want to do. i did assemble planes and ship kits before, so i think i'm capable of it. i want to build kit of the armor i served on (and eventually i will take on that) but personnaly i do NOT want to assemble RR car kits whether it is a part of the hobby or not. 

i understand you being upset that they discontinued product you love. however , from the discussion on the other forum i remember nice long post with insiders information about athearns state of things. 
the point was that the faith of BB kits was sealed 7 years ago. its been dead for 7 years, officially discontinued only now and yet plenty in circulation still. this means only one thing - enormous oversupply. hence the cheap prices that were barely breaking even. the reason the plug wasn't pulled completley years ago is copious supply of "blanks" that were paid for already. so instead of throwing them out they kept the line going. now, 7 years later they are finely out. can you imagine how off was the supply/demand planning on athearns part? (well, somebody was very optimistic..).

when you see a thing that is to good to be true (what money possibly could have been made with such low prices on niche product?), you know it will not last and as such need to prepare yourself mentally that one day it will be gone.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Anton, yes, Athean's hierarchy was vastly over optimistic. The day the Horizon Hobbies took over the business, in 2004, was the first day of their pending doom. Though, your business sense seems to have validity, as a manger and business owner myself, I would rather sell 100 items for a buck than 1 for 100. It's all about margin and cash flow. And the leadership of Horizon seem more business than hobby oriented. They tried to dictate the market rather than the market dictate the business.

If the truth be truly known, the business lost itself with the death of Irv Athearn in 1991, the heirs driving the business into the ground until 1994, and the acquisition of the business by non-hobbyists in 1994, then Horizon acquiring Athearn. The Day of the Death Noll was when Horizon decided to move from Chicago to California in 2004. While seemingly a good business move, to be closer to importers(and one could also think cheaper labor), it was a disaterous decision, in hind-sight.

One has yet to offer an explanation as to how an RTR is less expensive to produce than a "rattle box". And no one has given a good explanation as to the reason that the SAME tooling that produces the RTR cannot produce the same in a kit. Does it not seem odd to you that business is dictating to the hobby rather than the hobby dictating the business? 

Atlas, for years, has made its bread and butter from RTR, longer than all of the manufacturers put together. Still, their business flourished. Basically Atlas is known for quality engines and cars. Yet Athearn(read Horizon) has chosen to leave their niche, and compete with a higher level product. This move has, and will, orphan many current hobbyist as well as those prospective individuals that have a latent interest in the hobby. One may make the leap if the test were only a few hundred dollars than the current atmosphere which could cost thousands.

Niche markets are a fickle endeavor. Any could provide feast or famine. But, first, one must be able to introduce another to the hobby. I truly doubt that many will now check out the hobby to see if it is one they wish to pursue. 

Sure, Athearn forecast a truly optimistic forecast, the complete abandonment of the kit is a more drastic measure than you realize. The price of RTR will surely limit the future of the hobby. For a single box car to leap 10-fold in price is enormous. The person on a limited income, or a lower income rate, will not be able to begin a journey in our fabulous hobby. The youngster will not be able to afford 2-3 cars on his allowance(there is STILL such a thing isn't there?). Nor will they afford engines at an affordable price point.

Business requires on to keep your finger on the pulse of the market and your efforts in that arena. I dare say that the market dictated a trend that Athearn either did not pick up on or just plain ignored. Business is dictated by the market, not visa versa. While it may be true that RTR sales boomed( and is still booming), the market will eventually flatten. But, to completely relegate something that has been your bread and butter for 50+ years to cast your eggs all into one basket is pure foolery. Athearn/Horizon has made a decision for the hobby, instead of the hobby making that decision for them. While it is true that the market on BB kits is low, the inventory high, decisions should have been made to solve that problem. Produce items that are wanted and needed. Different road names. Recall the undecorated inventory of models and tag them with different road names. Surely some of the lesser known, and less produced initially, would create a market to rid them of surplus inventory. While the roads that are "big hitters", ATSF, BNSF, NYC, PRR, NS, are and will always be the most modeled, I see smaller roads now being modeled more and more. I have, personally, visited more layouts in recent years that are focusing on shortlines, fallen flags, and industrial roads.

Anton, not being malicious or having any ill intent, your philosophy is one of the reasons we have lost BB models. We, as hobbyists, have allowed manufacturers to dictate to us what is available. Maybe, some of us have deep pockets, and are so arrogant that we think we have no time, that we want something that has taken someone 20 years to create and we want it NOW, and that the fellow hobbyist that is financially challenged to step up to OUR perceived plateau. I have visited many a layout that has stock of MUCH less quality than my own. I have NEVER looked down my nose at such layouts. Many, in fact, would rival some that cost thousand of dollars more. One that comes to mind was a layout that had only Model Power and LifeLike stock. A little L-shaped layout, (2)4x8 sheets of plywood. Quite tastefully done and on a budget the hobbyist could afford. The trains operated flawlessly, and one could see the effort and pride in the owner's work. And his grandkids loved it!!!! Now, where will those grandkids be able to afford to enter our hobby? The World's Greatest Hobby, by the way.

If a company wants to get rich, a niche business is NOT the way to achieve wealth. Irv Athearn started his business out of a deep affinity for model trains. That is the sole reason for his beginnings. It was for his love of the hobby. And in the years of his life, that sole thread made his name recognized worldwide. He made it possible for those of us to not only get involved, but he made it possible for all of us to enter the hobby and still be able to put food on the table. The demise of Athearn BB models has shown all of us model railroaders that it is the hobby first, the single most important philosophy that has should be the guiding influence of manufacturers, distributors, and shop owners. Keeping that single fact in focus will lead to success if one lets the hobby lead the way. And Horizon, let's point the blame where it belongs, has failed miserably in that respect.

Horizon has given all of us a lame excuse of the cost of production being too high, and there are many in the who took those claims hook, line and sinker. Tooling is much cheaper, in comparison, than when ol' Irv first started.

Bob


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Clashing Ideologies.....again,hey?*

Once Again....there it is in a nutshell.....RTR vs. Kitinkaboodle!:lol_hitting:


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

you are correct it is about cash flow, but frankly, just how many cars are needed and wanted by modellers? obviously way less then bb kits. flow is good but if margins are at 0% there is no point really. and i doubt RR rolling stock is high volume market. you keep pointing the affordable price of the kits. but the way i see it kits were only affordable because of the tremendous oversupply, meaning unnatural situation that couldn't have survived forever. good thing athearn (the company) came alive out of that one. 

i'm not target audience for kit cars. and as such my "philosophy" hurts kit cars market exactly as much as pane, ship and armor kit market. i have my reasons, wan'ts and "don't wants". i guess Chevrolet can blame me and likes of me for their financial troubles, but the problem is actually with chevy - they haven't built a car i would want . and as i was never was target audience. would be quite silly of them to blame me then, don't you think?

Bob, have you thought just how many cars are needed and could be afforded by modelers? Have you thoguht perhaps there is to much of them out there?
apart of that coal train and tank cars i never bought anyhting new. all the athearn RTR cars that i own , track, DC powerpack, turnouts were bought second hand. and i actually reached point of saturation - i have about 1% of your cars and think i got to much (meaning i will not have room for all of them on layout) so just how many cars (kits or RTR) i'm in the market for? unless i find drastic discount , not a lot i can assure you that.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Anton, the "wants" of modelers is only limited by the depth of one's pocketbook. Those "wants" are then deferred to one's "needs". That is the defining measure in the hobby and usually is best illustrated by a hobbyist's layout. As for the large number I own, I said before that most were inherited, but, I did not divest of them. My layout, being modular and completed changeable, just absorbed them into the various eras I can now run. Not everyone is as fortunate, I agree. I have the capacity of going from early 20th century steam to modern day roads in a matter of a couple of hours. And I have the stock to fit the cars and engines of each era. It's sure better than having a layout for each of my whims and fancies. I have one layout that can "mold" itself to fit any heart. People like me need the Athearn Blue Box, though I can afford buying Atlas, Kato, and other higher priced cars(some can't), I like those BB models. They give me a distraction will plaster is setting, paint and glue drying as well as a side to allow me to vent a little frustration when a plan isn't coming together on current module. And having a yard full of cars just plain looks good.

However, the point I am trying to make is the cost of beginning in our hobby, with decent, quality equipment, has just doubled, even tripled,with the abandoning of Blue Box kits. And the reasons given by Athearn(Horizon) reminds me of people trying to blow smoke up my arse. I wouldn't mind so much if people had not tried to insult my intelligence. Giving retorts such as "cheaper to manufacture" is a great example. You, quite simply, do not alienate your customers when dealing with such a small faction in a niche market. You find ways to raise the margin without burning down the barn. How? Retool, and raise the aesthetic quality. Add amenities suchas metal wheels, and Kadee couplers. One doesn't tear down the house because the kitchen faucet leaks. Which is what Horizon has done with Athearn Blue Box models.

A question I must ask here is, what about the young father, who has a 3-year old son, supposed to afford the beginnings of a layout an still provide for his family without inexpensive, quality kits? My fears are that he won't. My start began 50 years ago. I believe I have the first car I ever bought, I know I have the first engine, an old Athearn rubber band drive tagged for the NYC, brass wheels and all. Though it is far from its stock appearance, I've added grab irons, hoses, and other such amenities, I still run it from time to time. The grandson has a hard time believing the ol' girl has more than 45+ years on her. And she pulls far better than many of my more modern units!!!

And the reasons given by modelers themselves in favor of RTR, "more time to work on the layout", is reach at best. Truth told, they, these "modelers" are not modelers at all, but train-runners. Buying a set of pans, does not make one a chef, nor does buying a set of tools make one a mechanic. Such is true in the trend of our hobby with today. Modeling, in its trues sense is being displaced by a "buy it in a box" mentality.

So, if you believe that it is cheaper to produce a RTR product, I have a piece of lakefront property in the Sahara for sale. With today's technology, it is far cheaper, and less labor intensive, to build your jigs and molds than it was 40 years ago in comparison. One man can now produce more in one day than a department of 20 could in a week. Computer aided drafting and design and CNC machining have revolutionized manufacturing. Add in robotics and you have completely done away with human error and, most of all, sweat. Labor was, and is, the most expensive contributor to cost in manufacturing. What once took 100 pairs of hands, now takes but a few. So, now, explain to me the increase in cost to retool and produce...... The initial cost of retooling would quickly be recouped by the lost differential on payroll.

So, believe what you will. The loss of "rattle boxes", especially Athearn Blue Box kits, will lead to the near extinction of the hobby. With no newbs following us, it will go away except for the die hard of our group keeping the faith. The future is indeed bleak, at best.

Bob


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

Bob, 
you keep touting BB kits as affordable. but that affordability was artificial (due to extreme oversupply) and as such couldn't have gone forever. Wants are not only wallet limited, at some point one has "enough" stuff. whether filling (and in my case overfilling) their layout and getting any more items simply starts making little sense. unless some items are offloaded hence the awesome used market of people exchanging their unwanted items.

as for reasons, i personally put none to explain my lack of interest in kits, and i don't really want to take the discussion there.

one thing to add, i think you really overdue on showing off your layout. c'mon, post some pictures of your action!


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Anton, I am really not one to take pictures. However, just for you, next time I get back up north, I will get some. Cameras and I do not get along no matter which side of the lens I am standing on. This is best shown by letting you know that I have no less than for cameras lying on the bottom of the various Great Lakes, one is in Lake Michigan, one in Lake Huron and Lake Erie has swallowed up two. Don't ask as to how they got there. And, no, I wasn't using them as fish bait, nor was I trying to take pics of the fish in their natural habitat. The term clumsy comes to mind. Or maybe "butter fingers".

I have been repairing the layout since it was damaged in a break in late last year. Thankfully, only one module was damaged beyond repair, though many structures took a "hit". And the true blessing was the yard was untouched.

As far as the affordability of the cars, do you really think your statement true? Those same models were as affordable 50 years ago. I doubt you were around in those days. They cost less than $3.00 in the early 1960's. If memory serves me correctly, I was paying $2.25-$2.75 for cars in the early 1960's. No more than $3 for sure. I was 10 or 11 at the time. Many a time my Dad and I went to the hobby shop and I'd come home with 3-4 new cars or an engine or two. Maybe an old AMT model car in the sack too(at one time I had 200 model cars). And I paid for them with my own money, earned from my newspaper routes(I delivered 3 different dailies around town), working on my granddad's farm or mowing yards and shoveling snow(which ever was in season).

Still the rendering obsolete Athearn BB models will have a delayed negative effect on the hobby. Numbers of modelers will dwindle that's for sure. And soon, maybe not in my lifetime, the hobby will only be for those with finances substantial enough to support one's hobby. We are seeing some of that now, though not in a quantity to make a big difference. But, I can see the numbers falling, even now, due to lack of financial resources. Manufacturers are pricing the hobby right out of existence.

Bob


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