# blue box noise?



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Like many of you, I have some athearn blue box locomotives. Some for me is probably
50 of them. Most new in box and never ran. I have not had a operating layout for 15
years. When I did run a layout I found the bluebox to be dependable but with noise I
was not crazy about. What is that noise? I lubed and oiled everything but it is still there.
Has anybody been able to get rid of the noise? Many years ago I took the shell off of one
and listened for the noise. It seemed to come from the u-joints. The u-joints parts have
a very sharp edge where they mesh. I sanded off the sharp edge and it cut the noise in
half, but still had some. That is the biggest difference with the newer locos. They are so
quite. I have hard wired a few of my bluebox engines. I even soldered power wires to
the trucks directly. That takes away that problem area of where the frame sits on the
truck. Really makes them smoother and reliable. I have started adding decoders to them.
They run good enough for me. BLI they aren't. But if I could get less noise from them it
would be great. Any ideas?


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## HOTrainNut (Feb 17, 2016)

mopac said:


> Like many of you, I have some athearn blue box locomotives. Some for me is probably
> 50 of them. Most new in box and never ran. I have not had a operating layout for 15
> years. When I did run a layout I found the bluebox to be dependable but with noise I
> was not crazy about. What is that noise? I lubed and oiled everything but it is still there.
> ...


Its athearns can motors sounds like. I had a few blue box and their can motors always make a "grinding" noise for lack of a better word. Is it running smooth? And if not ive heard guys doing kato motor swaps into them. a little expensive.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Original Athearn sound system before DCC...crude but effective...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

True !


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Its athearns can motors sounds like. I had a few blue box and their can motors always make a "grinding" noise for lack of a better word. Is it running smooth? And if not ive heard guys doing kato motor swaps into them. a little expensive. 

For all I know I guess it could be the motors but I doubt it. Electric motors don't have
grinding noise unless bearings are bad. Maybe I should disconnect the drive train and 
see if the motor is making the noise. I haven't done that.

I guess if the motor shaft has too much slop in the bearings it could rattle.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

What u have been told is the truth.

All the BS about burnishing gears and pouring toothpaste in the towers will help, but it will end up being the motor 90% of the time as well. I have one or two non growlers, been screwing with a couple for about 3 mths straight now and found some used Helix Humpers to throw in there. That will shut it up since there is nothing left to try.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't want to remotor (they run fine). Could replace them all with more modern
locomotives. Either is more expense than I am willing to do.

I guess I will just have to tolerate the noise. There is worse things they could do.
My BLIs have just spoiled the heck out of me. So quite.

Are the new athearns quite? I don't have any of them.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

mopac said:


> Are the new athearns quite? I don't have any of them.


I have a Genesis, like a mouse!


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> I have a Genesis, like a mouse!


That's cheating, different motor


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

Most of the noise is vibration generated. The old rubber like mounts were not very secure. The drive pieces were intentionally loose and can easily vibrate. The fly wheels are not very true and will cause the motor to shake. 

The brass fly wheels are better than the old grey ones. They still need to be balanced properly. I replace the old motor mounts with the newer screw type. I also isolate the motor from the frame with a double sided piece of tape. These two things secures the motor and damps most of the vibrations. 
Where and when you can, you should change to a dog bone drive. This has many benefits, including reduced noise. 
Finally the original shell attachment was horrible for noise. The shell amplifies any vibration. I use a soft electrical tape at various points on the shell chassis interface. This will help reduce the noise. 
You have to make sure there is no drive to shell contact, even through wires.

The old BB motors, jet or rectangular produce more power than the newer motors. That power is the driving source for the noise. So unless you change the motor, there will be some noise that wil percist. Particularly above 9 volts. 
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks !

These are all the newer bluebox with brass flywheels.


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## RH1 (Jan 4, 2016)

ggnlars said:


> Finally the original shell attachment was horrible for noise. The shell amplifies any vibration. I use a soft electrical tape at various points on the shell chassis interface. This will help reduce the noise.
> You have to make sure there is no drive to shell contact, even through wires.
> 
> The old BB motors, jet or rectangular produce more power than the newer motors. That power is the driving source for the noise. So unless you change the motor, there will be some noise that wil percist. Particularly above 9 volts.
> ...


I have an old Athearn SD45 (purchased sometime in the 70's). One of the ones with the out-of-scale wider long hood. Just had it apart this weekend for cleaning & lubrication. Ran it around with the shell off, and it was a lot quieter like that, This is one of the ones that was built before they had any flywheels at all. Still runs ok, but it was always been ridiculously noisy. No need for sound systems with that thing - you would never hear them anyway! Put the shell back on, and it gets twice as loud.

I have a couple of the newer blue box Athearns with brass flywheels. MUCH quieter the the old SD45, but still louder/rougher sounding than my Proto 2000's or Kato.

I also have an older Athearn SD40-2 that I bought - used - back around 2003 or so. Previous owner had re-powered it with a Proto Power West can motor. It also has a load of extra lead weight glued inside the shell (I think that might dampen the shell vibration a bit). It is the second quietest one in the bunch, almost as quiet as the Kato SD40-2 I have.


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## NWHOOSIER (Jan 6, 2016)

I have a dozen old blue box brass flywheel Athearns and love em. That noise is just poor mans DC sound. I had one though that was extra noisy and found the metal truck connection with the motor was being pressed against one of the drive with the shell on. This was caused by the light assembly pressing too much against the metal connector. A little bending adjustment and it was as quiet as an old blue box loco can get.
Nice advice on making them quieter though. I'll have to try some of those tricks.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I bought a set of three custom painted BB locomotives at a show. Dead quiet runners. Opened them up and found the prior owner had drilled holes in the flywheels to balance them. Only two where brass, the third had the old grey fly wheels with the older style motor. Whoever owned them prior to me new how to tune these. turned them to DCC and now there is a slight issue with one, I think I have a wire rubbing somewhere.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Any tips on how to balance the flywheels. Being out of balance could sure cause
a rattle in the drive train. Drilling brass should be easy enough if you knew where.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

mopac said:


> Any tips on how to balance the flywheels. Being out of balance could sure cause
> a rattle in the drive train. Drilling brass should be easy enough if you knew where.


I only wish I knew how it was done too. I have seen the results and it makes a big difference.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I guess ( not going to use assume) we could start with removing shell, remove
drive shafts, put power to the motor and see if we have a wobble. Then maybe 
add a small weight to the flywheel with tape and see if wobble is better or worse.
If better remove some of the flywheel exactly opposite the added weight. Remove
tape and see if wobble is better or worse than when you started. The screw motor
mounts seem like a good idea. Seems it would hold the motor more steady. A
loose motor could cause a wobble. Might be able to steady the motor with a hand
and see if wobble is better. That would mean you need better motor mounts.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

tkruger said:


> I only wish I knew how it was done too. I have seen the results and it makes a big difference.


Sounds a bit like The Emperors' New Clothes to me. I don't see how a solid symmetrical drum of machined brass could be out of balance or how drilling holes in it could make it balance, if indeed it was out. How deep would you drill the holes? Where to drill? Maybe it was done to lighten it.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

When I started my layout, Athearn blue box locomotives were probably the most affordable locomotives that ran OK. They weren't the best as I started building my fleet of locomotives with Atlas Alcos when the first hit the market in the 80's. 

What I did with mt Athearn locomotives was to first replace the sintered iron wheels with NWSL nickel silver wheels. The gear tower in each truck was carefully lubricated with a light oil and the gears with teflon grease. The spring slip that connected the gear towers to the motors was removed and the motor was hard wired to the trucks. Eventually every one was remotored with a NWSL can motor. I didn't like the way that the Athearn motors would surge when going down grade and would slow quite a bit on an upgrade pull. the can motors cured that. 

I still have these units in service and they run extremely quietly and also run as good as any new locomotives that I have seen. Yes it was a bit of work and did cost a few bucks, but it was well worth it.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Blue Box grinding like noise.*

I have to agree with what was mentioned earlier. The noise is a frugal mans sound system.
regards,tr1


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Chet, I have to agree with you on those old yellow box atlas alcos. I bought an
atlas RS5 with kato drive (japan made) from a member here a couple months ago.
Only atlas I have. It might be the smoothest quietest engine I have. And I have
BLI, spectrums, and other nice engines. They are nice. They are too light and don't
have a ton of pulling power because of that.
I don't want to remotor my BBs due to expense. I will live with the noise first. I
bought a tsunami T1000 decoder for one of my BBs. Maybe not too bright to put
a $100.00 decoder in a $30.00 engine. But I did. Runs nice and will pull a bunch of
cars. Most of my BBs will get a $20.00 decoder.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have been dropping the $12 NCE decoders in my BB locomotives. They are reliable, little large and a tight fit for the switchers but they can be made to fit. LHS sells them in a ten pack.


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