# Can It Be Done and How



## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm trying to design a layout that will have one train going one way and having a second train coming from the other in like a cross track piece. My question is how or what do I need so one train will stop or slow down until the other train passes? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you 

Robert


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Are you talking conventional operation? That's usually done with relays to remove track power from one of the intersecting tracks, but we'll need more information.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

i'm using conventional engines. What types of relays would i need. i'd like to do them for all my gauges i have. Track we are using is mth for o gauge, bachmann and life-like for ho gauge, lgb track for g gauge, and n gauge we just got started with so we only have an oval track for that one.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

AutoControls.org has lots of options, diagrams, links to pre-built units...

HTH


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I know for Lionel O scale you could make block sections using insulated track that would stop one engine until the other one crosses a certain point. Then the other engine would stop in the same spot as the first, I never tryed it but was tempted to. Down side would be e unit in forward only position( no reverse), there is a way around this but it sounded a bit more involved.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

Thank you so much for the website it was very helpful


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

my next question is can the reed switch for the stop and go of more than one train be used for all gauges of trains. because we are going to use g, o, ho, and n scales on our layout.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

we also want to add an rc race track to the layout would we need the same reed switch to stop the cars as well.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I've got to see this when it's done, pictures please!


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

we'll try and get a small layout set up since we live in a one bedroom apartment and it's kind of difficult to make a gaint one like i want.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

oh crud i forgot to mention adding the disney monorail set with it


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Good luck and have fun!


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

This is what I want to accomplish.










There will be another track setup exactly like this on the other side of the layout.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Can you draw up a crude diagram? I not sure what you have in mind? I originally thought you were using a 90 degree crossing or something similar. A track plan would help.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

we'll work on a drawing tonight and tomorrow and try to get it up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Take a look at AnyRail, makes drawing plans very easy.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

this is basically what we want but we think we'll need to add something else but we don't know what so any help is appreciated.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, cool, and you want to run 2 trains in the same direction or opposite direction?.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

there will be a 30 degree X at one end. We don't have one yet is the reason why it's not in the picture.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

we want them in opposite directions and we know there has to be a 30 degree X on one end as well be but don't have a 30 degree X yet is why it's not in the picture


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Are you going to be running them or are they going to automated so that they run on there own?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, draw it out on paper and take a picture of what you want, we can go from there. The layout of the track is important ( I rushed mine and some things aren't easy to get to. ) . Remember to integrate what, if any, accessories you want or want to leave room for. Planning is key.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

we want them to run automatically not by hand stopping them. and we'll work on a drawing with the X's and switches of our idea we have in mind over the weekend and during the week coming up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suspect this is possible with something like Atlas Snap Switches to deactivate track sections until you pass and then re-power them.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Robert

Interesting brain teaser.

Looking at your layout in the photo:

Basically your outer oval is to be considered a single
track main.

You want 2 trains running in opposite directions on it via
the the 'upper' half of the outer oval and the lower
half of the inner oval.

Either train could be routed thru the inner oval and
you want it to be a totally AUTOMATIC 'hands off' operation.

I don't have any proposed solutions but here
are some factors to consider:

If you are using DCC it would be much easier,
but would need train detection circuits to operate 
the turnouts.

If you are using DC you would need to insulate the
upper half of the outer oval 'below' both outer turnouts.
The detection circuits would have to switch the outer 'upper'
insulated track from outer
oval power to that of inner oval power in addition operating
the turnouts.

Using either DCC or DC,
There also should be insulated sections
controlled by other train detectors in both ovals that
would stop either train before it would run into a turnout
set against it.

And that's all before consideration of the yet to
be seen '30 degree' crossing.

All in all looks like a candidate for one of
the computer gurus to tackle.

It's all getting to be pretty close to Rocket Science 
and possibly a good hit in the wallet.

But it's fun to think about.

Don


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

robert_seerveiss said:


> there will be a 30 degree X at one end. We don't have one yet is the reason why it's not in the picture.


That's why I recommend the track layout software, you can illustrate exactly what you want to do.

Running in opposite directions and switching onto the opposing track sounds like a recipe for a crash, what is the reasoning here?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

John 

You are certainly right...running in opposite directions
is a crash ready to happen...

But, It would be fascinating
to watch what he proposes if it could be 'hands off'. With
the right train detectors, I could design a relay circuit that
would do it...and I'll bet you could design a transistor
circuit that would.

I intentionally designed my layout with a single track main that has
3 'passing' sidings which are actually passenger station
tracks...with DCC and 2 controllers it keeps you busy
throwing turnouts and balancing speed with 2 trains running
'at' each other...but no way
could it operate hands off.

Don


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suspect "hands off" will eventually result in a "trains off" as in off the table after a crash.  One little mistake in the logic...


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I have an idea on how to do it but the track layout has to be simpler. The opposite train thing is hard to work with. As this is just theory, from what I read could be done, I cannot guarantee results. If what I believe conventional to mean is no command control etc. My idea is an oval with two sidings on opposite ends. Both sidings would have insulated track that would be powered by a third insulated track on the loop (the on switch) . It would require 4 switches that control each other. It's the only way I can think of to achieve opposing trains running together in conventional mode. Only idea I have and it may not work. With newer track can you make insulated track? I only worked with tubular O.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

With stuff like Atlas track, you have to actually try to connect the two outside rails together to have them common, by their nature they're "isolated".


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

thank you for all the information to think about.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

would block signals work?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Robert

There are videos of what you want to do...one seems to
be a layout very similar to yours WITH A CROSSOVER.

Check this out: http://www.dccbitswitch.com/ 

They sell the
devices and a video demonstrates the layout running several
trains in opposite directions 'hands off'. As I suspected the gear is $$$$$$$$$$ + $. 

Don


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I was thinking something like this, using blocks. I found it hard to create a second inside loop. This should work with minimal cost. It's not as good as computer Controlled stuff but should work. It's a lot simpler track wise then what you wanted but maybe you can modify it. This layout had one insulated track as a trigger to power 2 separate blocks. The switches also have to be able to control each other as well as have a non derailing feature. This is assuming set up is similar to Lionel track. This will run two trains on one track in opposite directions( I hope). As this is just speculation from the Lionel instruction books, it should be tried out first. Hope this helps some.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Forgot the picture. Sorry for the bad penmanship, my arm is hurt.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

SJM

I'm not sure that I understand the 3 short 'blocks' in
each passing siding...are you saying they are a form
of occupancy detection? How? Do they power
relays or transistors? What actually acts to 'power' track A
with track B power? Is this using Lionel 3 rail track? Is that
required to make it work?

My brain is nearing a short circuit.

Or maybe someone pulled the plug.

This stuff is like playing chess...just when you
think you've got it won, you get clobbered by a pawn.

Don


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Don, the insulated track sections in the outside oval is a switch. The outside ground rail is Isolated from the rest of the track. As a train rolls over it the ground travels through the wheels of the train completing the circuit. It would need a lock on. The inside sidings would be totally isolated from the whole track. With one power feed run to each section through a lockons. When a train enters the siding it stops as there is no power going to the completely isolated track( maybe tracks, you might need two to stop). When a train hits the insulated track on the outside track, it would send the ground connection to the inside isolated track completing the circuit and moving the previously stored train. The train that hit the switch would then go into the other siding and stop. The previously stored train would start that one in the same manor. This would create a constant loop of opposing trains. In theory.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

It's hard to compare the two (O to HO/N) as they require totally different power and control systems.

SJM's suggestion will work for O, but not HO/N.
DonR suggestion will work for HO/N but not very well for O.

It's like trying to compare apples to toadstools, not much of a comparison.

Automation in model RR is expensive and requires constant maintenance to keep running. It can be done but it will be costly and you will have to stay on top of whatever system that you end up running!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'll admit I know nothing about ho/n, I barely know O.


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## robert_seerveiss (Apr 11, 2013)

thank you so much for the information it was very helpful.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

To simplify, it define your scale and reseach block accessories and switches. O scale o22 switches can be cross wired , when one is activated the other switches too. That would cross switch the trains to a siding. Then a block detector will stop one and start the other. Read up on block detectors, a must do before you go any further. You may want to get some wiring books too.


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