# 350 Lionel transfer table.



## GK Trains (Aug 10, 2013)

I am having a little difficulty with my transfer table. I have inspected the unit and all parts/wires appear to be connected correctly. However, about 50%/60% of the time when I am transferring an engine from one track to another, the movable section stops even though the motor is still running. Any thoughts? Also, I noticed that unless the engine is perfectly centered on the movable section, the unit does not move very well. Is this normal?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The fact that the thing stops at times is probably the same issue as needing to center the locomotive on the table.

Check out the #350 Transfer Table Maintenance Manual at Olsen's, it has some good information about the table repair and operation.

My first inclination would be to check the motor drive and gearbox and see where the slippage is occurring.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Is this an original PW 350 or the modern reissue? Assuming you have the original one from the 1950s, is it not moving because the wheels are slipping or has the motor come loose from the drive shaft? The drive system for the TT is basically the same as for a locomotive. Make sure the track is clean. If the wheels are slipping those rails could be greasy or gunked up. 

There is an elaborate gearbox that connects the motor to the drive wheels. If the wheels are not spinning but the motor is turning your problem could be with the gearing.


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## GK Trains (Aug 10, 2013)

My 350 is a modern day issue. It is not the original. There also appears to be a depression on the plastic center rail on the base of the unit that runs parallel to the center metal rail. The unit appears to stop there when the copper connections hit that spot.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I used to own the reissue. I think that depression is for a switch that signals the controller light to let you know the table is properly aligned with the track. However if the motor is still spinning the gearing may be messed up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I had an original, never really saw the remake up close. How different is it?


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## GK Trains (Aug 10, 2013)

The exterior looks pretty much the same. From what I can see, the difference lies in the housing. When I opened the housing/cab it looked significantly different than the original having what looked like a great deal of rather complicated electronics. Not knowing much about the electrical works, that is a novice's explanation. I'm sure there are others who can better explain the variations.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I think the repro was made from the same tooling albeit in China. Electrically it was vastly improved utilizing DC motors and microswitches.

I had mine with the optional extension but really never got into it so I sold it off with many of my under-utilized peices of my collection during the recession to raise college money.


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## GK Trains (Aug 10, 2013)

Thanks for all your help. Although the unit runs a little slow in some sections as it goes from one rail to another, I figured out the problem. Apparently when the 350 was assembled the metal clips on the underside that hold the wiring in place were not fully pinched. As a result two of them protruded below the metal rail and interfered with the unit's movement. I just clipped them off and taped the wiring.


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

I am trying to remove the motor from a postwar #350 transfer table. Does anyone have a video of the process or can give me some details. 
Thanks.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

I attached the service manual pages from Olsen's as 6 individual pdfs. Page 3 shows an exploded view of the motor assembly.


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

Almerc said:


> I am trying to remove the motor from a postwar #350 transfer table. Does anyone have a video of the process or can give me some details.
> Thanks.


I guess I was a little premature to ask for assistance removing the motor. I figured out that I had to remove the retaining washers at either end of the drive wheels. Then I could remove each shaft from the motor. Then remove the two screws underneath the motor that hold it on the tranfer table. Be careful when removing the yellow plastic housing covering the motor as the wires to the red bulb are attached to the motor.

I do have another issue. The bulbs on the master controller and on the motor housing do not light up when the table is aligned with the tracks. Any ideas. I tested the bulbs and they are good.
Thanks.


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

Millstonemike said:


> I attached the service manual pages from Olsen's as 6 individual pdfs. Page 3 shows an exploded view of the motor assembly.
> 
> View attachment 549439


Thanks Mike. I have Greenberg's repair manual and have the same schematic. I guess I didn't look closely enough for the retaining washer.
Might you have any idea why the bulbs on the controller and on the motor housing do not light when tracks are aligned with the table?
You are so helpful.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

No idea. I just pulled the manual from Olsen's.


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

Millstonemike said:


> No idea. I just pulled the manual from Olsen's.


Thanks for looking. If I ever find a solution to the lights not energizing, I will post the solution.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Once the track is lined up that is the signal all is good????


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Man said:


> Once the track is lined up that is the signal all is good????


When the table is lined up with the track, the light doesn't light up.
When the table is moving toward one track or the other, the light flickers as it approaches a track but not when the table is aligned with the track.
So, I don't understand the circuitry that makes the light go on when table and track are aligned.
Any ideas?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It must be track movement. Think of it as a warning light. When the track is in place the light stops. The circuit must be broken somehow.

Question is the track powered when it is moving?

I don't have one to check. It is just a guess.

On you tube they operate differently. Track aligns the light goes on. Train gets on. It moves and light goes out, probably because the track is disconnected at this point. The light comes on when it reaches the other track section.
I would think the lights are connected to the track.

Watch some you tube videos on it.


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Man said:


> It must be track movement. Think of it as a warning light. When the track is in place the light stops. The circuit must be broken somehow.
> 
> Question is the track powered when it is moving?
> 
> ...


I think you are on to something--good sleuthing. 
I don't have the tracks powered. I will have to try this suggestion when I put up the layout for the holidays.
Thank you very much.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Questions: Which light flickers? The one on the control panel or the one in the transfer table's operations shed?

My conjecture from the schematic, below. I may be wrong.

First the lamp in the control panel should be on whenever the control power is connected to power. The<- and -> buttons energize one or the other split windings on the motor. That's how they control direction.

I think the light in the operations shed should be out while the table is moving between tracks. It should be lit only when the <--> button is pressed AND the table is in line with one or the other track.. That light represents track power to the center rail to move the train.

I would check the condition of the center rail insulating and slide rails. Is the insulation in good condition? Is the center rail contact making a solid connection when the table is inline with either track? Are the slide rails clean?

Lastly, the single power lead to the controller should be the same lead as the track's center rail (or an accessory lead that uses the outside rail lead to complete it's circuit). Lionel postwar transformers did not use a consistent nomenclature (e.g., "U" and "A") for outside and center rail connections.


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

Millstonemike said:


> Questions: Which light flickers? The one on the control panel or the one in the transfer table's operations shed?
> 
> My conjecture from the schematic, below. I may be wrong.
> 
> ...


First, let me thank you for your continued interest in helping to solve this mystery.
Interestingly, the light in the operations shed and the light on the controller shine brightly as the table passes a point toward one track. And, the light on the controller is not constantly on when powered is on. 
As you point out, I think part of the problem is that I have not powered all tracks connected to the table. You have given me a few things to check out that sound likely to solve this.
This will have to wait until I make my whole layout for the holidays functional.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Almerc said:


> First, let me thank you for your continued interest in helping to solve this mystery.
> Interestingly, the light in the operations shed and the light on the controller shine brightly as the table passes a point toward one track. And, the light on the controller is not constantly on when powered is on.
> As you point out, I think part of the problem is that I have not powered all tracks connected to the table. You have given me a few things to check out that sound likely to solve this.
> This will have to wait until I make my whole layout for the holidays functional.


Well, I was mostly wrong. See the video. The control panel lights when the table is aligned with either track. And the operations shed lights when the table is aligned with a track AND the table is clear to accept a train.

I suspect that the insulating flange (in the schematic) ends at the limits when the table has aligned with either track. That makes a the series connection between the two bulbs and they light. That's because the shed's bulb is always connected to ground and the controller bulb is always connected to power. Completing the series connection between them allows them to light. 

When a loco comes onto the table, the controller light brightens and the operations shed light goes out. Power now flows through the controller light and then in series with the loco.'s motor to ground. Hence the operations shed light no longer receives power - it's shunted to ground by the loco motor. The controller light brightens as it's in series to ground with the much lower impedance of the motor rather than another, higher impedance, light bulb. The loco doesn't move as the motor doesn't receive enough voltage when it's motor is in series with the high impedance controller light. Pressing the double arrow button shunts the controller bulb allowing full power to flow through the loco motor and the loco takes off (i.e., the button eliminates the controller bulb from the circuit).

If you get it working as in the video, try two tests with the table aligned to a track: (1) with a lighted passenger car; and (2) with an unlit car.

In the second case, I'll bet the operations shed light remains lit when an unlit car is moved onto the table. In the first case, all three bulbs may be lit depending on the lighted car's bulbs the shed bulb and the passenger car bulb will be in parallel and that parallel pair will then be in series with the controller bulb.

If you have flickering, I'd check that insulating flange for wear. If it doesn't light when aligned with either track, perhaps it has shifted position.


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## Almerc (Oct 17, 2020)

Millstonemike said:


> Well, I was mostly wrong. See the video. The control panel lights when the table is aligned with either track. And the operations shed lights when the table is aligned with a track AND the table is clear to accept a train.
> 
> I suspect that the insulating flange (in the schematic) ends at the limits when the table has aligned with either track. That makes a the series connection between the two bulbs and they light. That's because the shed's bulb is always connected to ground and the controller bulb is always connected to power. Completing the series connection between them allows them to light.
> 
> ...


I am amazed at your very thorough explanation. I hope I can follow up on this soon. 
Best wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving.


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## Tomcarr (10 mo ago)

I'm looking for a schematic of the newer Lionel transfer table gearing. Have 2 of them. 1 had the splined drive gear stripped. The other one goes only in one direction and I hear the motor running but no movement in the other direction. Help?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

71-4113-250 is the sku and 11/01 date introduced. Lionel has the downloadable manual. I could not find the service supplements to see a parts breakdown.

I located supplements 39 to 47 and is not listed at all.


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