# RUNNING 2 LION CHEIF TRAINS ON 4x8 PLATFORM



## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

I have a 4x8 sheet of plywood. On my platform I have one oval of lionel fast track. On the track I have a ready to run set. It’s the polar express lioncheif set. 
How can I add another lioncheif train to
my 4x8 platform. What would be the best way. How can I add another oval to my platform inside my first oval. 
Any info would be great.
Thanks.


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## billwiz (Dec 3, 2019)

Are you connecting the two ovals? If not, you just need a few extra straight pieces to lengthen and widen the outside loop. The inside will fit easily. If connecting, you will need some switches for each oval.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What he said, you can use O31 Fastrack for a tighter curve, virtually any LC/LC+ train will run on O31 or larger.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

My outside oval is the track that came with the polar express lion cheif set. John, I want to have a seperate inside oval and on the inside oval run a seperate lioncheif train than the outside oval. Thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Like Bill said, you may have to add a little extender in the O36 curve to widen the oval so an O31 oval will fit inside. Pretty sure O31 won't fit inside O36 using Fastrack without stretching the outside oval a bit.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

John. Now I have to find out how to set it up so I can run on lioncheif train on outside track and one lioncheif train on inside track. Thanks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

No problem at all, just get power to all the tracks and run the trains. LC, LC+, and LC+ 2.0 all will run with a constant voltage on the tracks. Each LC locomotive will have it's own remote, or you can use the Universal remote to control both from a single remote. You can also control newer LC with Bluetooth.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

John is right. An O-31 loop inside O-36 is very, very tight and may not work at all. You need to the 4 1/2" straight to expand the outside oval. Expanding with a 10" straight will overhang a 4x8 platform.

All done in SCARM.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Question: how do you run one lioncheif train on outside track and one lioncheif train on inside track with the trains not running over any wires. Thanks.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

You drill small holes in the plywood close to where they're needed and run the wires underneath the sheet.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Question: are you able to run lioncheif trains by a transformer or only lioncheif +. Thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If they LionChief, only with the remote and newer ones with Bluetooth. If they're LionChief Plus or LionChief Plus 2.0, then they'll run with the remote, Bluetooth, and the 2.0 will also run TMCC.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Question: I am using a lioncheif train on my outside oval. To get power it is plugged into the wall. Now for my inside oval. What kind of train should I use where I would not need to plug it into the wall or where I would not be riding over wires. What are my options. Thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, if you want something that doesn't need track power, you're talking about battery power. Not much that is stock in O-gauge that comes with battery power. I took an LC+ Camelback and made it into a dual-power locomotive, battery and track power switchable.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

sorry that is not what I am asking. Since I am new to trains. If someone make a layout and uses let’s say 4 lioncheif trains or 4 lioncheif + trains on they layout nothing else. How do they make all 4 trains run is what I want to know. Do they put all 4 trans on a transformer and run them that way. 
Do they plug all 4 trains into wall out let’s. Do they run all 4 trains wireless. Then do you. Control them with one remote or 4. 
Sorry but that is what I did not know. Thanks so much.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

A lot easier to run the wires under the plywood sheet and pop them up through a hole where they'll attach to the loop.

The Lionchief Loco's are controlled by their respective remotes. Track power is a constant 18 V. Per Lee Willis, one of the wall power packs likely has enough power to run two starter sets. A heavier load - longer trains, 3+trains, etc. - can be powered several of ways. You can power each loop with the power supply that came with the set, or use a more powerful transformer to power multiple loops or a combination of the above. Starting out, I'd recommend just using the two power packs you have. As you gain more experience and knowledge, it'll be easier to envision potential upgrades..


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Is that what people do that run an all lioncheif and lioncheif + layout. Thanks


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Ok. Mike. So you answered my question. The inside loop and outside loop could both get power from a transformer. Also I could use one wall pack to power each loop. Mike since I am a beginner you suggest powering each loop with its own wall pack. So drill hole and feed wire under. 
Now to control train. Each train has its own remote. I think I have it. Thanks


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

I want to have an all lioncheif layout like Lee Willis 😀


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

I just have to find out how he sets it up. Thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ask Lee.  FWIW, he runs a lot of stuff in conventional mode, he has lots of DCS and Legacy equipment. The LC+ and LC+ 2.0 stuff I believe he mostly uses the remotes.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If you just want the 2 small ovals the one wall plug may be enough. Just run a wire from the first track to the second one. You could do that under the table. The wall plug will alow you to use the lionchief controllers for the trains. If that isnt enough power, or you get a bigger layout later you can hook up a transformer and set that to the 18 volts to run the lionchief with the controllers. But for the small loops the wall plug should be plenty of power.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Sjm9911. How would I run a wire from the the first track to the second track. Under the table. Like you said in your post. Thanks


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You could buy an power track section or do it yourself like in this video.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

sjm9911 said:


> You could buy an power track section or do it yourself like in this video.


Yes, but that gent needs better soldering skills. It took too long to solder the final connection. His soldering iron tip needs a cleaning and he doesn't have any wet solder on the tip when making the final connection. But the video did show an important point: Pre-tin the wire and the track's metal tabs separately and let then them cool. If you're not the best at soldering, trying to solder them together without pre-tinning will likely melt the plastic track as you try to heat up all the parts for the solder to flow. Solder melts ~ 450+ deg F depending on the composition. Thermoplastics in the low to mid 200s. The longer you hold the iron on the metal tab, the more time heat has to conduct through the metal tab to the plastic.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I didnt atually watch it mike. Lol.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

SJM. What is a power track section. Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The power track section is the terminal section, just the section that is powered. You will have one with your set. You can solder the wires on as the video above, or conect from your terminal section to the inner loop, you can use a wire like this also. Amazon.com: Lionel FasTrack Electric O Gauge, Operating Accessories, Power Wire: Toys & Games you would just need two of them to put under the track. If its going to be semi permanent, soldering is better as it will not loosen up. I supose you could get 2 of those wires, splice them together, put them on the stright sections of track underneath. ( follow the ones you have) and glue them in place if you dont want to or can not solder.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

SJM. So any way I get power to the inner loop I need to drill a hole in my platform and fun the wires underneath.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thats probably the best way. You could always run the wire on top of the table and notch out the track a bit. Up to you. There are 100 ways to do it. None are wrong. Some ways look better then others is all.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

SJM. Thank you so much for the help I really appreciate it.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

SJM. what kind of trains do you run. Conventional or lioncheif or something else. Thanks


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I used to run a lot of convention stuff. I have a few lionchief sets( the original ones) as well. Along with the leagacy stuff (command ) i never set up.i really dont run anything anymore. Just a set around the tree.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)




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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

I want to make this layout on my 4x8 sheet of plywood. My only thing is I did not find the building instructions. Thanks


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok , thats a bit complex but you can do it. And yes the wires would be under the board. Hes got 2 bottom loops. The inside one has 4 switches and a operating track. The top track is a bump and go trolly. Thats why it dosent go anywhere, the trolly hits the bumper and reverses. Hes has like 3 lionelville buildings, and a station, not sure of the brand. He also has a coal loader and log dunp tray off the operating track. There assesories are require special cars. The top track with the trolly looks to have an ho scale station and house to give your forced perspective. The tower is a bubbling water tower, and there is a operating gate on the street. The bridge, can be anything and the back tunnel looks to be scratch built. Trees need to be bought or made. As well as the scenery. The top bill board is also a lionel product. Look into some how to build sceenery, and gather the supplies. Then you can start the track and wiring and scenery.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

SJM. Merry Christmas. Do you have a suggestion. The only thing I want is to be able to use us fast track and run more than one train on my 4x8 platform. Do you have an idea for a layout. 
The other layout was kind of complex. Thanks


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Any fast track 4x8 layout ideas. Much appreciated. Thanks very much n


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bull6791 said:


> ... The other layout was kind of complex. Thanks


I agree. IMHO, the additional 4 switches are not worth the little bit of extra operating diversity they enable. And you can't recreate a simple figure in Fastrack for the inside loop using off-the-shelf tracks. The picture, below, is about the only thing you can do in Fastrack above too simple loops. If you really think the 4 x 8 is the only layout you'll use, you can go with the MTH Realtrax. Track really doesn't go bad if kept clean and away from moisture (e.g., stored in a wet basement). And you can run any trains on any O-scale track (with exceptions for large trains).

Here's the best I can model for you in in the 2 track systems on a 4x8 sheet.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks mike, i was looking for an old site that had layouts on it but i cant find it. It had more of the old tin plate track ans but some fast track also. I agree. Keep it simple for a first layout. I like the first plan, gives you stuff to do.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike and SJM. Merry Christmas. Thanks for the layout ideas.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

sjm9911 said:


> Thanks mike, i was looking for an old site that had layouts on it but i cant find it. It had more of the old tin plate track ans but some fast track also. I agree. Keep it simple for a first layout. I like the first plan, gives you stuff to do.


I got a lot of experience "massaging" SCARM to fit the three loops below


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. The layout you just posted. Is that your current layout. If not what is your current layout. Thanks


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bull6791 said:


> Mike. The layout you just posted. Is that your current layout. If not what is your current layout. Thanks


I had just finished renovating the basement's utility room in our fairly old house (1928). Only had a finite space to work with, hence the design above. Built the platform and the first loop. Then, suddenly, we're moving. So the trains and track are now packed. Sadly, there isn't a spot for a permanent layout in the new house. It'll be a Christmas layouts going forward. Here's how far I got.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. Thanks for the help. Question: how do I get that program SCRAM. Do I use it on my laptop or my iPhone. Thanks.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. I am new to trains. You are teaching me more than I know. I like talking to you and learning from you. Thanks so much for helping me. 
How long have you being into trains.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike I don’t know how long you have been into trains but since I am new to it. I am glad I have someone I can ask questions and for help. Thanks.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Plenty of members here have way, way more experience than me (Newbie 2018). And I concentrate on the simplistic pre-war tinplate trains. There are gents here with great layouts, proficient in the modern control systems, and have top tier trains. So this is where I can help (and free up their time for the tough stuff)  

You can download *SCARM* for installation on and MS Windows PC. It comes with a free license for the 1st 100 pieces of track. Larger layout designs need to buy the license. Good to start. It's mostly point and click with some quirks. You need to select your specific track type to model a design - drop down menu just below the file save icon - "O - 1:48".


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Just know that I appreciate your help. Thanks so much.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. Plus I like talking about trains with you. Right now I just have one loop one my 4x8 sheet of plywood. The polar express lioncheif is running on that loop. I just want to be able to run 1 or 2 more trains on my 4x8 sheet of plywood. I would be happy with that. I just don’t know what way I want to set the track up. 
I don’t know the max trains you could run on 4x8 but it might be 3. Thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If I were adding switches, I'd want to be able to go between the two loops.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If I were adding switches, I'd want to be able to go between the two loops.


In SCARM that was no go. I tried lots a combo.'s with the short FasTrack lengths. Not on a 4x8 platform. You need custom length straights. It's not like designing with Gargraves, tubular, etc.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike if I wanted to I could use switches on my 4x8 layout. I would think I can.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

This was my old layout before i moved. This was bigger the 4 x 8. I think you should just see what fits on the 4x8, and if you want 2 tracks. One train and like 2 switches can be fun. You could make a siding or two to park the other train. With LC stuff you should be able to controll them on the same track without hitting each other. You cant do that with conventional.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. Would 2 loops connected by switches work on a 4x8 platform. Thanks.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

It should work I am not sure. Thanks


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bull6791 said:


> Mike. Would 2 loops connected by switches work on a 4x8 platform. Thanks.


It will only work with a customer cut track. Not sure how to do that with Fastrack or Reatrax. I tried lot's of combinations with the standard Fastrack short lengths. I I couldn't get it to work. See the diagram. Maybe others have advice on custom custom lengths.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You can try this if you use old school 3 rail? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjARegQIDhAB&usg=AOvVaw2N2MpUwjh4dff6sAjTkotT


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. Thanks for the efforts.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

What is the difference between fast track and realtrax. Thanks


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

*YouTube Videos Link*.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bull6791 said:


> What is the difference between fast track and realtrax. Thanks


Similar track style, hollow rails on a plastic roadbed. Different connection system between rail segments. Oh, and MTH is going out of business, so RealTrax might be hard to find after a spell.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Bull6791 said:


> Mike. Would 2 loops connected by switches work on a 4x8 platform. Thanks.


I'm planning some modifications to my layout so I took a few minutes to play with Fast Track on a 4X8. I'm using Anyrail software. Using 031 curves and a few switches, this would be possible and I think you could get it all connected without any custom pieces. Obviously you could run 2 trains.
Cheers, Ken


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That looks like a workable plan.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks very much ken.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

TundraBoy said:


> I'm planning some modifications to my layout so I took a few minutes to play with Fast Track on a 4X8. I'm using Anyrail software. Using 031 curves and a few switches, this would be possible and I think you could get it all connected without any custom pieces. Obviously you could run 2 trains.
> Cheers, Ken
> View attachment 551803


Interesting. That didn't work in SCARM. And scarm has different product numbers for Lionel Fastrack.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

I have not used any track building software before but I would think they are all the same. Scarm and anyrail should be able to do the same thing. Obviously not.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

TundraBoy said:


> I'm planning some modifications to my layout so I took a few minutes to play with Fast Track on a 4X8. I'm using Anyrail software. Using 031 curves and a few switches, this would be possible and I think you could get it all connected without any custom pieces. Obviously you could run 2 trains.
> Cheers, Ken
> View attachment 551803


Interesting. That didn't work in SCARM. And SCARM has different product numbers for the Lionel Fastrack straights switches: both versions recognized as valid Lionel product numbers.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. Have you used anyrail before.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Millstonemike said:


> Interesting. That didn't work in SCARM. And SCARM has different product numbers for the Lionel Fastrack straights switches: both versions recognized as valid Lionel product numbers.


Mike,
That's a head scratcher! I don't have any experience with Anyrail and Fast Track but I would have expected it to be very close tp SCRAM. I used 031 curves; is that a difference? As well those product numbers are the 'case number'. When you pick that you get the whole case dumped for use.....quicker than individually picking the item.
Cheers, Ken


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, I've used AnyRail with Fastrack for a number of different configurations, normally it came out right on the button.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

TundraBoy said:


> Mike,
> That's a head scratcher! I don't have any experience with Anyrail and Fast Track but I would have expected it to be very close tp SCRAM. I used 031 curves; is that a difference? As well those product numbers are the 'case number'. When you pick that you get the whole case dumped for use.....quicker than individually picking the item.
> Cheers, Ken


The curve radius is not the issue given their placement at the ends of the ovals. It's the connection between the switches on the inside loop - not a standard straight length. As I noted, SCARM has different product numbers for some pieces, most notably the straights at 6-12014 (not shown SCARM track diagrams), not the 6-12032 shown on the Anyrail diagram. 

SCARM was dead-on with the old Lionel and Marx 0-27 tubular for my layout.


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## Ridgelyman (Dec 13, 2020)

Millstonemike said:


> John is right. An O-31 loop inside O-36 is very, very tight and may not work at all. You need to the 4 1/2" straight to expand the outside oval. Expanding with a 10" straight will overhang a 4x8 platform.
> 
> All done in SCARM.
> 
> ...


Mike is on the right track, 4.5 should do it.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

*Bull6791: The real experts have already answered your questions, better than I ever could. But if you want to save a little money by reusing the curved track that came with your sets, you can do your two loops using the curved track you already have.
We set up two loops under our tree at Christmas, to use with our expanded Lionchief PRR Flyer, and Broadway Limited starter sets. You’ll need 4 pieces of one and three quarter inch Straight Track (SKU: 6-12026) two pieces of five inch Half Straight Track (SKU: 6-12024) and a number of additional ten inch pieces determined by the size of your layout.
Our inner loop has one additional five inch track between the four curved end tracks. The inner loop straight-aways have two ten inch sections and an additional one and three quarter inch straight track, on each side. (One of the four ten inch sections will be a terminal track.)
The outer loop uses a ten inch plus a one and three quarter inch straight track between the four curved tracks. The outer loop straight-aways have three ten inch sections. Using this as a template, you can simply add however many extra straight tracks, in equal numbers and lengths to expand the inner and outer loops to fit your four by eight table top.
You also might want to look into adding feeder wire jumpers to avoid dead spots. I bought some wire and 22-18 Ga. 0.110" Wd. Female Quick-Disconnect Terminals on Amazon to make up my own feeder wires. The connection points are a little hard to spot under the track, but if you look for them carefully, you’ll find the connection points. Good luck.*


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Cranky. So under your Christmas tree you have 2 loops an inner and outer loop


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Cranky. I would like to see what your layout looks like. Thanks.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Bull6791 said:


> Cranky. So under your Christmas tree you have 2 loops an inner and outer loop


Yes, that's right. We have a small house, so I need something that is simple, and after a few weeks can be taken down. We don't use switches or any other of the wonderful things I've seen on this set of postings. Perhaps for now that's all you need. I place the terminal tracks so one faces the connection outward, and one faces inward. I just run the wire under the tracks. Years ago I set up on Homesote board, but the noisy resonator effect of the hollow Fastrack drove me crazy. So I cut a fleece cloth fabric to size, cover it with poly snow and just lay it over the carpet.

Other people on this forum are far more knowledgeable than I am. but look into the simple crimp on connectors for jumper or feeder wires. There is so much info available on the web. Some people go for hyper realism, I love it when I see it! But we set up in more of a "Toy" way with Plasticville houses which we paint and customize. Perhaps two simple loops is all you should start with, and later on down the road, when you have more experience, you can follow some of the great advice posted here for you about more complex track layouts. Good luck. Have fun, and build what works for you. By the way there are many great videos of Lionel and MTH set ups available for free on Amazon Prime streaming.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Bull6791 said:


> Cranky. I would like to see what your layout looks like. Thanks.


Ironically, I'm a photographer, and have never taken any photos. If I do, I'll post some here in a few days.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Cranky said:


> Bull6791:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Cranky. Thanks for pictures. What size is the inner and outer loops. Meaning 0-36 outer and 0-31 inner. 
Also are you running. One LionChief ready to run train set on each loop


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Cranky. Thanks so much for the help.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Bull6791 said:


> Cranky. Thanks for pictures. What size is the inner and outer loops. Meaning 0-36 outer and 0-31 inner.
> Also are you running. One LionChief ready to run train set on each loop


Bull6791. The curves are all of the ones that originally came with the starter sets. I was able to use what I had. It's difficult to measure right now with the tree an all the props in the way, but it looks like my set up would be too wide for you. It's about 4 foot 4 inches across. *My mistake.* Instead of following my original plan, eliminate the five inch track between the inner loop curves (which were in my first posting.) At the ends, on the outer loop curves, place a five inch and a one and three quarter inch together ( total of 6 & 3/4 inches of straight track) place them between the starter set curves on the outer loop. and it should work with the same curves that come in the starter sets. If you currently have just the one Polar Express set, you can test this out by using the eight curved tracks you have, to set up just one end of two loops. To do the test, you'll need one five inch and one 1&3/4 piece of track. Put the four curves together for the inner loop, and then put the two short straight pieces between the other four curves. So if you order a second starter set, you should have all of the curved track you might need. The track layouts posted here by others are much nicer, but this is an inexpensive way to make an inner and outer loop with two starter sets. You'll need to buy just a few more straight tracks, than those which are included with the starter sets, to fill the length of the 8 foot table top. Try down loading the layout software posted by someone else on this string, if you want to avoid buying expensive track that you won't need to use. Sorry for my earlier layout being too wide. good luck.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Bull6791 said:


> Cranky. Thanks for pictures. What size is the inner and outer loops. Meaning 0-36 outer and 0-31 inner.
> Also are you running. One LionChief ready to run train set on each loop


 Yes, using two starter sets, one on the inner, and one on the outer loop. PRR Broadway Limited, and PRR Flyer. Handheld remotes (no Bluetooth, these are earlier versions of Lionchief) and wall wart power which ships with the starter sets.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Cranky. It’s no problem at all. I just really appreciate your help. Thanks


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Bull6791 said:


> Cranky. It’s no problem at all. I just really appreciate your help. Thanks


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Oops, too many. Bull6791, this should work, just add more straight tracks to this to increase to the length of your table top. The SCARM software mentioned in an earlier posting on this thread works well, but I haven't really had a chance to learn to use it properly.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Cranky said:


> Oops, too many. Bull6791, this should work, just add more straight tracks to this to increase to the length of your table top. The SCARM software mentioned in an earlier posting on this thread works well, but I haven't really had a chance to learn to use it properly.


However, the straight-aways will probably wind up right next to each other, without the space shown in the SCARM software.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Ready to run sets come with 0-36 track. I did not know if your outer loop was 0-36 a 0-36 loop would fit inside as a inner loop. Thanks


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Cranky said:


> However, the straight-aways will probably wind up right next to each other, without the space shown in the SCARM software.


You get a better pic of that in SCCARM's 3D view.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

I never used that software or any rail before. Thanks


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

What is the difference if you put 0-36 inside 0-36 and make 2 loops or you put 0-31 inside 0-36 and make 2 loops or there is no difference. Thanks


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Bull6791 said:


> What is the difference if you put 0-36 inside 0-36 and make 2 loops or you put 0-31 inside 0-36 and make 2 loops or there is no difference. Thanks


I think the various responses so far would indicate you can do an outside 036 and an inside 036. One thing you have to keep in mind is space between the inside and outside straights. With 036 on a 4X8 you will have to have the outside loop right on the edge of the board. You will not be able to connect the inside and outside loops with switches. If you have the 8 036 curves......go for it you have nothing to lose. 
However, if you only have the 4 that came with the starter set and you are adamant about the 4X8 you should consider 031 for the inside loop. That allows for the outside loop to be configured with more space from the edge and allows for connecting the two loops with switches should you desire down the road. IMHO, running two loops with no interconnection will get old fast.

Cheers, Ken


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Ken. Thanks for the response. Yes it would be better to do it your way. 0-36 outer and 0-31 inner loop. That way switches could be added. Yes two loops gets old fast. 
Ken I am just looking for the most I can do on 4x8. Thanks.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bull6791 said:


> I never used that software or any rail before. Thanks


I meant for Cranky to show the SCARM 3D view of the layout he designed for you. The 3D view will sow the width of the Fastrack.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's that track plan in 2D design view and 3D view. This was done in AnyRail, elapsed time about 5 minutes.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Here's that track plan in 2D design view and 3D view. This was done in AnyRail, elapsed time about 5 minutes.
> View attachment 552016
> 
> View attachment 552017


Exactly right, so are the comments about working to the edge of the board. If someone has already purchased two starter sets, this is a good way to get started while spending a minimal amount of money. Down the road, with more time and experience, I would expect anyone who has a permanent location to set up, to add additional track and switches, and work their way to more intricate layouts. If money is no object, and Bull6791 is certain of what he plans to do, he should ignore the simpler dual loop layout, which uses little more track than would be included in two starter sets.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting to note, the roadbed is almost touching between the loops. Another issue is the overhang, even a modest amount of overhang may clip traffic on the other loop. Here's another try with a bit more space in outer loop to give a bit more separation. This just fits on a 48" width, the roadbed comes right to the edge of the table. Note a bit of separation between the tracks in the 3D view, should be a bit safer. I used two 4.5" sections to space out the outer loop, so 9" instead of 6 5/8" with the original plan.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Would be better with an O-31 inside loop.

Here's SCARM's 3D view of the O-36 Fastrack loop with two 4.5" straights on the short ends. SCARM shows overhang on the 4'x'8' platform. I wonder which s/w, SCARM or Anyrail, is more accurate? SCARM indicates that Fastrack O-36 circle is 36" center rail to center rail. Plus the 9" of the two 4.5" straights brings that to 45". Anyone with fast track could help by measuring the Fastrack distance from center rail to edge of road bed. If it's 1.5", that brings you right to the edge of the platform. Anymore and there's overhang.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Mike. Would totally be better with a 0-31 inside loop. That way I could add switches. I am just trying to get the most out of my layout. Thanks


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Millstonemike said:


> Would be better with an O-31 inside loop.
> 
> Here's SCARM's 3D view of the O-36 Fastrack loop with two 4.5" straights on the short ends. SCARM shows overhang on the 4'x'8' platform. I wonder which s/w, SCARM or Anyrail, is more accurate? SCARM indicates that Fastrack O-36 circle is 36" center rail to center rail. Plus the 9" of the two 4.5" straights brings that to 45". Anyone with fast track could help by measuring the Fastrack distance from center rail to edge of road bed. If it's 1.5", that brings you right to the edge of the platform. Anymore and there's overhang.
> 
> View attachment 552029


Mike, AnyRail has an option to show road bed. When that is done with the two 4.5" there is overhang on the board as you indicated with SCARM. I'm thinking there can be nothing but 031 for the inner loop.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Bull6791 said:


> Mike. Would totally be better with a 0-31 inside loop. That way I could add switches. I am just trying to get the most out of my layout. Thanks


Bingo! I think you have no other options. Here is an idea of what you might work toward. A lot of activity for a 4X8 board. I've used 036 switches which fit nicely. Good luck
(PS.....you gotta have sidings )
Ken


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

TundraBoy said:


> Mike, AnyRail has an option to show road bed. When that is done with the two 4.5" there is overhang on the board as you indicated with SCARM. I'm thinking there can be nothing but 031 for the inner loop.


Thanks.

EDIT: I suspect SCARM's roadbed is generic. It just presents a road bed with fixed dimensions - not specific to the track type. I see the same roadbed on my tubular layout.


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## Cranky (Jan 3, 2020)

Bull6791 said:


> Mike. Would totally be better with a 0-31 inside loop. That way I could add switches. I am just trying to get the most out of my layout. Thanks


Bull6971: We know you have the Polar Express Lionchief set. You now also have some ideas about where you might go with your layout. Have you decided on what your second train will be?


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Tundra Boy, just asking, what are sidings. A train just goes back and forth on it or is it something else. What is the purpose of it.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

No I do not know what my second train will be. Thanks


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

What are sidings and what are they used for 
Sidings are they track where a train just goes back and forth on them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

New cut with 8.5" of fill in the sides, fits on the 48" table and leaves a bit of space between roadbed of the two loops.


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

Bull6791 said:


> What are sidings and what are they used for
> Sidings are they track where a train just goes back and forth on them.


sidings are where trains park but the track is connected to the main line.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Siding: how do you use one in a layout. Thanks.


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

Bull6791 said:


> Siding: how do you use one in a layout. Thanks.


anyway you want.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Siding: questions: I know you can use them any way you want but since I never used one how do most people use them. Thanks


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Bull6791 said:


> Tundra Boy, just asking, what are sidings. A train just goes back and forth on it or is it something else. What is the purpose of it.


Bull, the track in the middle of the inner loop (latest layout) would be considered sidings. They are used to 'park things' off the mainline for example a box car, or several, maybe an operating accessory or even a locomotive. You may have a freight shed beside a siding for pickup and deliveries. It might be a manufacturing plant or lumber mill that would require deliveries. Possibilities are endless, and depends on what you are interested in modeling.
Now all that may well be a phase 3 in you layout plans......or not. Just showing such is possible


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're also somewhat limited with O-gauge on a 4 x 8, so any sidings will be small.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks Tundra Boy for the info.


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

Bumpers: what are bumpers and how do you use them. Thanks


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Bull6791 said:


> Bumpers: what are bumpers and how do you use them. Thanks


Bumpers are a physical 'stop' at the end of a siding /track.


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

Bull6791 said:


> Bumpers: what are bumpers and how do you use them. Thanks


i'm wondering if it would help you more if you if you make a list of questions all in one post.

that way you have one location for the questions and answers.
ie
1. question
1. answer

2. question
2. answer

and so on.

you provide the question and someone will quote the question and place the answer under the question

just a thought.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

bigdodgetrain said:


> i'm wondering if it would help you more if you if you make a list of questions all in one post.
> .... just a thought.


Might not be so good for the rest of us


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## Bull6791 (Dec 14, 2015)

I might try a lighted bumper.


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