# Gravel roads and parkinglots question



## DEKKER (Dec 13, 2011)

Other then the ready made stuff,Woodland Scene. and other namebrands,is there some other stuff that can be used? Looking to make a dirt or gravel road to the scrap metal yard I posted about earlier. ALso to make the dirt/gravel lot that yard will be sitting on. Any ideas would be great,thanks Mark


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I use sifted parking lot dirt found in piles all over a well used lot. Once sifted, I run a powerful magnet through it to pick up iron bits, then do a bucket pour about 18" apart on a breezy day to get rid of the fine powder. I bond it just like ballast...










...a little scenic foam or sawdust adds some texture but that's about it.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have not trried this myself but have been told that asphalt shingles work well.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I can vouch for the asphalt shingles, use the back side of them...


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## kursplat (Dec 8, 2010)

great looking crossing shaygetz. do you use a stencil for the RR X-ing paint marks or free hand it ?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

kursplat said:


> great looking crossing shaygetz. do you use a stencil for the RR X-ing paint marks or free hand it ?


Free hand with Elmer's paint pens....thank you for the kind words:thumbsup:


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## BionicJcs (Jan 12, 2012)

A can of valspar texture paint in stone gray is great for that, and its terrific for actual track road bed. Looks just like gravel and you dont have to glue it all over the tracks.


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

shaygetz said:


> I can vouch for the asphalt shingles, use the back side of them...


WOW  Shay......Mind if I "borrow" this idea?!?! 

You should patent this and sell licensing!


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

DEKKER said:


> Other then the ready made stuff,Woodland Scene. and other namebrands,is there some other stuff that can be used? Looking to make a dirt or gravel road to the scrap metal yard I posted about earlier. ALso to make the dirt/gravel lot that yard will be sitting on. Any ideas would be great,thanks Mark


Check your gutters for the fine pebbles that come off your shingles. I must have cheap shingles because there's quite a bit of it in my gutters. Not really sure if it's fine enough for the smaller scales. You might be able to chop it up in a second-hand blender.

Steve S


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

manchesterjim said:


> WOW  Shay......Mind if I "borrow" this idea?!?!
> 
> You should patent this and sell licensing!


I've been in the hobby long enough to remember two proverbs about model railroading;

--There are no new scenery ideas, simply old ones rediscovered.

--To make a small fortune in model railroading, one must start with a large one.

:thumbsup:


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

shaygetz said:


> I've been in the hobby long enough to remember two proverbs about model railroading;
> 
> --There are no scenery new ideas, simply old ones rediscovered.


But do you really believe that is true?


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## BionicJcs (Jan 12, 2012)

*Asphalt*

Anybody hit on the felt roofing paper yet for roads and parking lots? I bought some "roadway" off ebay for 12 bucks for nine feet and I discovered that's all it is. 15lb felt. I got hosed on that, but benefited from the idea. And you can make curves all you want as the felt is in one heck of a wide roll. I even think you can gt partial rolls. A single roll of it would last you and your layout for the rest of all our lives. I wondered about the lines, but Shay says felt pens, hey I'm there.


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## BionicJcs (Jan 12, 2012)

By the way, how do I graduate from "gang laborer?" Is this like a time sensitive thing?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

BionicJcs said:


> Anybody hit on the felt roofing paper yet for roads and parking lots?


I took a close look at it...it has advantages like long, seamless runs, I just didn't care for the fibrous look, like coarse, black paper.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

xrunner said:


> But do you really believe that is true?


Weeeeell.....I don't see us going back to powdered asbestos in our mountain scenery or stove black paint for our locomotives...

Yes, I do believe that...at best we're only modifying old techniques with current materials. My asphalt shingle roads came from a module I saw at a train show...


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

BionicJcs said:


> By the way, how do I graduate from "gang laborer?" Is this like a time sensitive thing?


No sweat...I've been in the hobby for 35 years and am still known as a "Junior Engineer" on another forum. I find it irksome in light of the fact that I have Xacto knife blades older than some of the senior members...:thumbsup:


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm not sure but you guys might have made a slight mistake in something. I don't think it was ment to use the black 30lb felt paper but use the black backside of asphalt shingles. I like the look but not sure the stone size might be just a little on the large size.
Then again I might be wrong about the whole thing lol


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

BionicJcs said:


> By the way, how do I graduate from "gang laborer?" Is this like a time sensitive thing?


Number of posts. See here ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=234

TJ


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## BionicJcs (Jan 12, 2012)

No, its not 30 lb, its 15 lb, and that is what i have here. And it is a little fibrous, but have you driven around any real asphalt roads lately? They can be pretty coarse if not melted in the sun.


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## BionicJcs (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh cool, Ill be up to Engineer in short order, as needy as I am


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

"Good HO ballast can be made from a mixture of six parts common table salt and one part Manganese dioxide. Add enough water to the compound to turn it into a thick black paste. The paste can be applied directly to the track and worked down around the ties to form a nice roadbed. The paste will harden and hold the track in a firm,strong grip. Use this mixture for coal in tenders and coal cars too".
This is an excerpt from a short article in MR for March of 1948 and sounds interesting. There are several grades of salt available that could make a good parking lot surface and perhaps the black paste could be used as asphalt for roads. There's an idea for a complete road working crew laying the asphalt and rolling it and striping the road.
Thing I want to know is what is manganese dioxide and where would you get it and won't the water disolve the salt? Pete


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

Thank goodness for girlfriends that are science teachers  Manganese dioxide is the black compund inside dry cell batteries. New batteries, older ones it will degrade to Manganese oxide. Depends how much water you mix in with it, to much and it will disolve.

Answers that question lol

http://shop.chemicalstore.com/navigation/detail.asp?id=MNO2


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

Davidfd85 said:


> Thank goodness for girlfriends that are science teachers  :thumbsup:
> 
> Answers that question lol
> 
> http://shop.chemicalstore.com/navigation/detail.asp?id=MNO2


Sadly....the site says its not available! (I'd love to give it a try!)

Edit: Found another link...looks kinda pricey  http://www.sciencestuff.com/prod/Chem-Rgnts/C2043


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

Just go to a hardware store and pick up a 6 volt dry cell battery, its the black powdery stuff inside. You'll have enough for quite a while. Just use a NEW battery not a old used one.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

So why couldn't you use the older stuff? Manganese Oxide? isn't it just to make the salt turn black? I'm talking about a recently purchased batter that is now dead. Thanks to your GF for the info. Much appreciated. Pete


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

not 100% sure but it may have a different reaction to the salt or water.

She teaches gifted/advanced kids 6th thru 8th grade and will put them on it Tuesday when she goes back to school. lol They will come up with an answer or get an F


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh gee! Don't give anyone an 'F'. It may ruin their little self esteem. Ha! I hope they don't blow up the classroom over this. Also I'd like to ask,what about the corrosive properties of salt with the track? And electrolysis between the salt and the track and rolling stock? Salt is an excellent conductor of electricity and we all know what the road salt does to cars in the winter. 
Good project for the kids. I'll be looking forward to what they come up with. I wonder if Sheldon is or was in her class? (BIg Bang Theory) Pete


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## rumrunner007 (Nov 18, 2011)

Has anyone ever used sandpaper for roads and parking lots.Its cheap and it does come in different grits and colors.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

I used sandpaper for the shingles on a couple of structures that i built last fall. Looked ok to me. No reason why it wouldn't look fine for roads or parking areas too. pete


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I used it many years ago, I just couldn't come up with a good way to hide seams...from 1983...


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

Here's some of those pebbles from my gutter. This stuff had washed down the downspout and onto the driveway. You can see that it varies in size. The smaller stuff could be sifted out, then the larger pieces could be ground up if necessary. The black pieces could look like coal that has fallen onto the track.

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i347/Steven_A_S/ballast.jpg

Steve S


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

I think that would make excellent ballast too if you can get enough of it. Pete


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

Does anyone know what the sizes would be for parallel parking spaces would be for an average city street?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

From wiki ...

"Parallel parking spaces are typically cited as being approximately 2.76 metres (9.1 ft) wide by 6.1 metres (20 ft) long."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_space

TJ


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

I don't deal with parallel parking to much at work but my work van is 19 feet long and I barley fight between the lines. I think 20 feet is a good number.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Xnats said:


> I don't deal with parallel parking to much at work but my work van is 19 feet long and I barley fight between the lines. I think 20 feet is a good number.



I can parallel park my 18 wheels.:smokin:

I just need a little more space.


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys  Time to get to work now.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

I can see Big Ed now tring to parallel park his 18 wheeler down town. He'd have to feed about ten parking meters if he got the rig parked. Pete


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Just read where fish tank gravel comes in all kinds of colors and sizes. Could be good for ballast but for loads in hopper cars it would be excellent. Petsupermarket carries tons of this gravel. pete


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