# O Scale Shelf Layout



## SNK

Hello there - finally got my account approved so I can post!

I am planning an O scale shelf/ceiling layout along the lines of what member deviltrigger529 has. Seen *here* for those that are not aware of what I am talking about. 

I was also talking with him before my account was approved somehow, _(and now my PM box says that I cannot store any messages for some reason if a MOD or ADMIN would like to look into that - small side note)_ and he has graciously volunteered to design the track plan with AnyRail since I am running a Mac and there are no track design programs that I know of that really work with Mac that don't cost a bundle.

In any event - I think that I will be using tubular O-27 track as that is what I have the most of, just might have to clean some of it so it will run nicer. 

I picked up a TMCC Cab1 system off eBay recently and plan to modify my 4-4-2 Atlantic for TMCC using the ERR boards (Cruise and RailSounds) I know that the cost of that will outstrip the cost of the actual engine, but it will be a good learning experience for me and it will be less of a "tragedy" if I were to mess up. Still cheaper or about the same as buying a comparable TMCC equipped steamer. 

I will also be using a 180w Power House (if I can ever find one) and the TMCC Direct Lock-On. 

Decorating ideas (aside from the white painted bottom and sides of the shelf) include just a simple mountain scene (seeing as its on a shelf) with rocks along the edge and back, with some scattered trees, to simulate a mountain cliff edge and a tunnel or two on some of the corners. I was also thinking of adding some track lighting in the form of signals and maybe some lighted posts where I will have my station platform. 

Of course this all depends on getting the shelf up first. 

Let me know what you all think of the plan so far - once I get the room dimensions to deviltrigger529 and he has a graphic and parts list for me either he or I will post that for y'all to look at. 

Thanks for letting me be a part of the forums and I look forward to talking with everyone.


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## Big Ed

SNK said:


> Hello there - finally got my account approved so I can post!
> 
> I am planning an O scale shelf/ceiling layout along the lines of what member deviltrigger529 has. Seen *here* for those that are not aware of what I am talking about.
> 
> I was also talking with him before my account was approved somehow, _(and now my PM box says that I cannot store any messages for some reason if a MOD or ADMIN would like to look into that - small side note)_ and he has graciously volunteered to design the track plan with AnyRail since I am running a Mac and there are no track design programs that I know of that really work with Mac that don't cost a bundle.
> 
> In any event - I think that I will be using tubular O-27 track as that is what I have the most of, just might have to clean some of it so it will run nicer.
> 
> I picked up a TMCC Cab1 system off eBay recently and plan to modify my 4-4-2 Atlantic for TMCC using the ERR boards (Cruise and RailSounds) I know that the cost of that will outstrip the cost of the actual engine, but it will be a good learning experience for me and it will be less of a "tragedy" if I were to mess up. Still cheaper or about the same as buying a comparable TMCC equipped steamer.
> 
> I will also be using a 180w Power House (if I can ever find one) and the TMCC Direct Lock-On.
> 
> Decorating ideas (aside from the white painted bottom and sides of the shelf) include just a simple mountain scene (seeing as its on a shelf) with rocks along the edge and back, with some scattered trees, to simulate a mountain cliff edge and a tunnel or two on some of the corners. I was also thinking of adding some track lighting in the form of signals and maybe some lighted posts where I will have my station platform.
> 
> Of course this all depends on getting the shelf up first.
> 
> Let me know what you all think of the plan so far - once I get the room dimensions to deviltrigger529 and he has a graphic and parts list for me either he or I will post that for y'all to look at.
> 
> Thanks for letting me be a part of the forums and I look forward to talking with everyone.



Sounds like a plan. 

Speaking of plans why do you need a plan for just running around the shelf?
Just build the shelf and add the track?

Some of your problems might be because of your low post count.
The approval wait was probably do to the fact that the main guy who takes care of the site was away training at MTH. I am just guessing. Most of the other mods ( besides one) don't do much on the site. 
Some don't every even log on much anymore, let alone moderate.

And one is head of research and development and epoxy. :thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn

T-Man was falling down on the job, he should have been approving them while I was gone.  I had about 25 of them waiting when I logged in this morning.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> T-Man was falling down on the job, he should have been approving them while I was gone.  I had about 25 of them waiting when I logged in this morning.


His fingers must have been filled with epoxy.


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## SNK

The "trackplan" was mainly just for figuring out how many pieces of track I would need with minimal amounts of math and for testing different curve radius'. 

Other then that, I agree, it is rather straight forward.


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## Big Ed

SNK said:


> The "trackplan" was mainly just for figuring out how many pieces of track I would need with minimal amounts of math and for testing different curve radius'.
> 
> Other then that, I agree, it is rather straight forward.


You say your going to use O/27? I would get some 0/54 curves then. If you use the O/27 curves you are limited on how big a locomotive can be.

Better would be O track, the track is a bit higher then O/27 and the tube if beefier. Then I would try to make ALL the curves O/72.

What trains do you plan on running up there?


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## SNK

Currently I only plan to run my little 4-4-2 Atlantic followed by the Pullman expansion set - nothing that can't handle the O/27 curves. 

What I have my eyes on though (don't tell my wife - lol) is this









With the appropriate passenger cars of course - in which case I would need the larger curve radius. 

I had already anticipated getting larger, more sweeping curves on this layout - last thing I want is a locomotive coming crashing down onto the floor. 

Those engines BTW - are MTH's RailKing Union Pacific Alcos. Not sure they have TMCC - but upgrading them would be a piece of cake - ill try and snag them on eBay for a bit less. I have sort of have a thing for the 50's liners - aside from some of the nicer steam engines - nothing says "this is the golden age" like a pair of Alcos leading a streamliner. 

To paraphrase Obi Wan - it's a elegant relic of a more civilized time.........

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## gunrunnerjohn

Nothing from MTH is going to come from them with TMCC. It's going to be ProtoSound of some flavor, or if they're older, it could be conventional with just a horn.

I'd seriously consider at least 42" diameter curves. O27 profile track is available in 42" and 54" diameter curves, so you can keep the O27 straight tracks you have now.


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## SNK

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Nothing from MTH is going to come from them with TMCC. It's going to be ProtoSound of some flavor, or if they're older, it could be conventional with just a horn.
> 
> I'd seriously consider at least 42" diameter curves. O27 profile track is available in 42" and 54" diameter curves, so you can keep the O27 straight tracks you have now.



I figured that out after more reading and a "duh" moment - lol - TMCC is a Lionel product. Those engines do have proto-sound 2.0 though which I understand can be run with TMCC? (Am I wrong?)

In any event - yes - larger curves is going to be the name of the game here 


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## gunrunnerjohn

Nope, PS/2 is not compatible with TMCC, you have to have a DCS system to run PS/2 or PS/3 with command control.


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## SNK

Ah - oh well. I know that MTH has a relatively low cost remote system that I can use if I ever get those. 
The set is about 600 anyways so I do not think that I will be picking it up any time soon. just a goal at this point. :-/ We can all dream though right. 

I have to get the shelf built first. That is the plan for this weekend. Acquire parts for the shelf and start planning the instal. 

I recently picked up a TMCC lockon (NIB) from eBay for a .01 more then what the Lionel store has them for. Seeing as they are currently OOS with no estimated restock date - I dont think I did too badly. 

Things are starting to come together. 
Next pay check will be see the 180w powerhouse and the boards from ERR needed to convert the 4-4-2 Atlantic.

I will post pictures as soon as I redraw the plan to something more resembling a plan and not a scribbled piece of notebook paper - lol. 

Also, a question for anyone that has dealt with this before or has experiance. 

I plan to have 2 bridges on this layout. One of them will span about 4 /4.5 feet bridging the gap between my living room and the dining room. 

The second will be more of a diagonal off-the-wall affair so access to my apartments HVAC filter can be maintained. 

The question is this: Are there any products out there that would bridge such a gap, or will I have to make this a custom job. If a custom job, what sort of materials would everyone suggest in order to make it look at least passably realistic. 

I was considering using sheet styrene to make the bridge sides and attach them to the wood shelf and then paint the whole affair a weathered grey color.

Thoughts?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Dream big.  You can use the DCS Remote Commander to run one DCS locomotive, though you don't get a lot of the features of the full DCS system.


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## Big Ed

You could, if you want, just look for some like these and mount them in tandem across the gap. 
There are different styles to pick from that have been made.











Some more pictures of some here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8263


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## SNK

I was considering that actually - really depends on how big the gap is exactly.

I actually had my thoughts set on an arch-under type bridge for the larger gap. At some point I will really get around to uploading my drawing of the planned layout - it will make it so much easier to actually envision what I'm talking about. But in any event - I am going to have to make it a custom job seeing as nobody makes arch under bridges (or any bridge really) in 4' spans. I will do the work myself out of balsa and styrene and just attach it to the shelf board spanning the gap - insta-bridge! 

I am finally on my "weekend" so I will be making measurements of the walls and doing a cardboard mockup. Maybe laying a track mockup along the edge of the room - see if I have enough or if I need to buy more.

I'm trying to keep this project as low budget as possible - but like everything that I seem to do - it's not really working out that way - lol. 




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## Big Ed

David Stockwell will build you a custom arch under bridge. He will build any type and length that you need. But only stationary bridges, NO MOVEMENT OR MOTORS FOR NONE!

http://www.bonanza.com/booths/David_Stockwell

Davids threads on some of his builds,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/search.php?searchid=796216

But shipping it would be a different story. 
Unless he could build a couple 26 inchers and you join them when you get them?

If you do build one you will have to calculate the weight it will hold and build it just like a real bridge. Or else it might crash to the floor with the weight on it. I would guessamate that it should be able to hold at least 50 lbs? Only a single line would run over it right?

Or you can get some of the bridges I showed you and just run a board underneath.


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## SNK

> If you do build one you will have to calculate the weight it will hold and build it just like a real bridge. Or else it might crash to the floor with the weight on it. I would guessamate that it should be able to hold at least 50 lbs? Only a single line would run over it right?
> 
> Or you can get some of the bridges I showed you and just run a board underneath.


That is actually the plan. This would be a "fake" bridge to save money and weight. The shelf board that I am going to use for the layout will form the roadbed (attached to the other pieces with those metal fishplates used in deck construction) and the only piece of the bridge that I will actually build will be the sides that will attach to the roadbed. 



















The first image is of what I plan to do with the bridges. 

The second image is some drawings of the entire layout plan that I did throughout the course of my shift on and off yesterday. 

I will of course explain if there are any questions and I am open to suggestions. I plan to use the blue/pink (depends on if I go to Home Depot or Lowes) insulation foam to make the rocks and use some western trees scattered in there so I can facilitate my planned mountain cliff look (seeing as it's a shelf - rock face just kinda seemed a no brainer and really easy way to cover the boards.)

I plan to attach the scenery to the boards using some of that industrial Velcro that you can pick up at WalMart in the craft section. Ease of installation and ease of tear down if I ever need to move. 


Thoughts? 



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## SNK

I made a trip to Home Depot today to get some supplies needed to finish off a bed (this basic design - but modified slightly by myself as the build progressed) that a friend and I built for my wife and I decided to get some wood to do a mockup of the shelf build - make sure everything fits and so forth. 

As you can see - it does - with room to spare. The foam will be considerably carved up to simulate a rock wall and attached - as I mentioned previously - with industrial Velcro. So there will be plenty of room for a larger scale UP Alco maybe . 

I will also have to "blast" out a section for my single signal bridge, which has been upgraded to run off LEDs.  A common fix I am sure, maybe not for the purists, but I am more interested in the low temp operation afforded by the upgrade to LEDs - especially since they will essentially always be on. last thing I need is a melted bulb housing, or worse, a fire. 

Moving on though - more pictures! 


















I also used my Kansas City Southern diesel (from my original train set as a boy) for a stand in - representing a larger locomotive. 
Plenty of room there as well. I'll just have to mind the scenery on the curves. 



















This is my construction design so far - this is very sturdy and like its inspiration the back panel will be screwed into the wall and the entire affair braced with metal deck brackets at intervals on the studs. 

It's coming along nicely - with the mock-up a success - I can safely move to the production phase. 










The 1x4 is resting in top of the 1x6 and they are screwed together. The deck plates will factor in later. 

(Y'all may have noticed that I am now using 1x4's and 1x6's - this is because apparently Home Depot doesnt stock 1x3's and 1x5's - and the extra inch was not worth the search)

Thoughts or suggestions so far anyone??



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## cole226

you could flip it over. put the 1x4 down, screw it into studs and brace with wood gussets
from it up under 1x6.

give u little more room on shelf.

just a thought:dunno:


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## SNK

cole226 said:


> you could flip it over. put the 1x4 down, screw it into studs and brace with wood gussets
> from it up under 1x6.
> 
> give u little more room on shelf.
> 
> just a thought:dunno:


That isn't a half bad idea - I will look into that.


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## cole226

SNK said:


> That isn't a half bad idea - I will look into that.


you'll probably have enough scrap, just cut 45*s. 
or if you want to spend the $ hobby lobby, micheals, a.c. moore etc. have little scrolly lookin brackets.
also you could glue a piece of 1/4" luan or birch plywood to front of shelf. you can give it a landscape relief. little up and down that the train runs behind.(peek a boo) and it will hide your track bed on the shelf. it would cut down on numberof gussets.
the more joints you glue, the more structure integrity. JMO


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## SNK

I will look into that - but the plan was already to hide the roadbed with a facing made from strips of foam carved to look like rock - kinda like the train is running along a mountain pass. 

In one if the corners I plan to build a tunnel as it goes round the curve and that will hide the TMCC power supply and the 180w power brick (not to worry - it will be ventilated - I have a few computer fans wired to 9v battery's left over from me and my wife's ODST armor project - we have many hobbies - lol) 

So the shelf will be properly hidden. In fact the only part that I anticipate having to actually paint will be painting the bottom white to match our walls. 

I you take a look a few posts back at my drawings you should be able to get a better visual about what I am talking about. 


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## cole226

snk,
nothing wrong with your plan. i'm just tossin some ideas in the mix
might be something u can use:dunno: best of luck however u go


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## Big Ed

Just a suggestion for you to think about.
I am sure you wouldn't want the trains to take a dive to the floor, accidents do happen.

I would consider some thing to attach to the out side of the shelf, maybe a clear piece of Plexiglas?
Or a piece of wood shaped into a block wall?
Something? Did you think about this?
I think Plexiglas would be easier as it will bend in the curve.
Just something to think about.
Ed's always thinking.


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## SNK

cole226 said:


> snk,
> nothing wrong with your plan. i'm just tossin some ideas in the mix
> might be something u can use:dunno: best of luck however u go


Wasn't shooting you down man - it was a good suggestion - and I tried to put the shelf up that was to see how it looked - but I wont get clearance with my wall mounted TV and a few hanging pictures if I do the shelf that way. 

Moving the pictures is NBD - but I do NOT want to move the TV - lol - it was a PITA to put up in the first place and I don't want to move it unless we move - lol


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## cole226

obstacles, obstacles.
its always something


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## RedManBlueState

Extend the shelf out so the train passes IN FRONT of the TV. Priorities, my friend. Priorities.


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## SNK

RedManBlueState said:


> Extend the shelf out so the train passes IN FRONT of the TV. Priorities, my friend. Priorities.


Riiiight - do you know how much convincing of the wife this took 

Ok - not much - but still. Lol
The TV stays - when I duplicate this in the man cave then I can go crazy. But I was told, and I quote "This is the living room, if it's going here it has to look simple, natural and elegant."

Starting to expand things in front of the TV does not fit into those qualifications - lol


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## SNK

Paycheck will be here in a few days - assuming that the G-man decides to pay me going forward - and I should have the shelf up next weekend. 

I am looking forward to this! Once that phase of the project starts I will start a new thread in the appropriate forum and put a link here to it (and vice versa on the other side.) 

In other news - the bed project for my wife is nearing completion. 









Have a good one guys!


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## SNK

Shelf is going up today! New topic and pics to follow! 


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