# New Lionel 2018 Catalog Due Out Today (Tuesday, Jan 23rd)



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

I did a forum search with the keywords "Lionel Catalog", and only saw two hits for all of 2017. So I'm not sure how much "catalog talk" happens on the MTF forum, since I'm still getting to know my way around here...and my visits to the other place become fewer and further between.

But for those here who may be interested, Lionel's Facebook Page had a post about a week ago indicating their new 2018 Catalog would be published at 12Noon on 1/23/2018, with a Lionel Facebook Live "streaming event" the following day.

Ironically, the Lionel website has no indication of a new catalog coming. No countdown clock... no front cover sneak-peaks... zip, zilch, nadda. In fact their website home page "slide show" still features the 2017 Volume 2 catalog instead of any hint of a new 2018 catalog.  And the web slide-show also still features the MegaTracks product, which I thought was already written off as a disaster. So web-wise, things seem a bit frozen in suspended animation.

Just really struck me as rather odd that there's been very little in the way of any fanfare about a 2018 catalog overall. Perhaps because Lionel previewed the VisionLine Niagara at York? BTW, I liked what I saw at York, and it'll be interesting to see if Lionel adds any other goodies to the locomotive OR if they offer any VisionLine cars to go with it. VisionLine Milk Cars would be nice, but Lionel can't seem to get any of their recently catalog'd milk cars (from the past 2 years) out of Romania where they're reportedly being manufactured. So that doesn't bode too well for special VisionLine-branded milk cars with sound.  Then again, maybe those milk cars are on the same mysterious ship that's wondering aimlessly around the globe with Lionel's ever-elusive 21" passenger cars??? 

Another oddity is the Lionel web page's reference to "a" 2018 Catalog... as in ONE catalog. No reference to the usual "set" of catalogs at the beginning of the year (i.e., Signature Edition, Ready-To-Run, Track and Power, Holiday/Christmas, etc...). Maybe I'm reading too much into their Facebook posts? I guess we'll know soon enough.

Anyway, 12Noon Eastern Time on Tuesday, 1/23 is the time I suspect a few toy train enthusiasts will be launching their web browsers. And grown men will be boys once again! 

David


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

David, I believe that the semi-annual release of electric train catalogs have lost some of their luster over the past 5 years. The Lionel out of box quality issues along with the BTO program has probably turned off a lot of the Lionel faithful.

Also a lot of folks, me included, have reached that age that common sense prevails. At 71 years old just how many more expensive locos do I really need, the quick answer is ZERO.

It will be fun and most likely will spark the addrenalin if a completely new never done before loco is released but it will have to be really different for me to pull the trigger. I just don't see me in the market for any more big buck purchases.

Bill


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I had a preview. It will be worth a look. Lots of new stuff not previously announced. Its the first catalog in years that actually has me interested in a few items. Everything is in one catalog and its big.

Pete


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks. I will be there with my browser.

But, . . . any chance this is "fake news?" So much about this is, well . . . really weird the timing, the lack of build-up and pre-release publicity, linking it to York or big events, etc. 

Then again, Lionel is doing strange things any more.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Let's see what we have to fix outta the box this year! Woooo!


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

There seems to have been a shift in Lionel’s pre-catalog advertising away from the hype of a countdown to using social media/ a podcast to comment on what’s actually in the catalog. I think that this was signaled a while back when Ryan K. went on Notch 6 to explain what Lionel was expecting to announce at the start of this year. Norton’s report of his sneak peek is consistent with that, including putting everything in one print version of the catalog.

That shift probably damps down speculation, which may not be a bad thing from Lionel’s point of view as people are inevitably disappointed if the catalog does not contain what they hope to see. As far as I am concerned, Lionel has a long way to go to live down it’s recent QC issues and that’s really more important to me than new product announcements.

But if they announce another brass hybrid steamer, well . . .


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Always a fun time to see what's coming. The reality is how much do I really need. 

I've become comfortable in living vicariously through others!!!

I'll bet one thing though. There's allot less griping and moaning over here! :thumbsup:


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

You guys keep referring to the "other forum" and I have never visited and do not even know the name. 

As for Lionel and this catalog release-I thought the last Lionel catalog I have was cheesy and not one that piqued my interest. Specifically, it was short on real photos of the locomotives on layout settings, like MTH does. 

There were quite a few drawings. 

I think they should only have one catalog per year but make it really nice and comprehensive. 3 rail O Scale is in decline, so why have multiple catalogs? 

They cost a lot of money to do, and I know some folks save the catalogs as reference. Also - there is to me much more to a catalog than the locomotives. I like seeing interesting and detailed rolling stock BUT the Lionel prices are ridiculous. 

When 4-6 car trains are $350 to $400?


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Bryan Moran said:


> You guys keep referring to the "other forum" and I have never visited and do not even know the name...


It's the O Gauge Railroading Forum, or OGR. Can be found at: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/

Many members here were/are frequent visitors over there.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2018)

In the past, I was always excited about "catalog day". but not anymore. The last three Signature Catalogs have been real bummers for me. So I don't expect much that interests me.

Will I look, yes, but more out of curiosity.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Brian, this will be different. Fasten your seat belt.

Pete


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## Midnight Goat (Dec 19, 2017)

I'm excited to see what the catalog has. I'm a bit younger at 30 so I guess I still have a lot to add to my collection compared to you old timers. I agree Lionel is pretty pricey but it seems that was always the case. Looking back at some of the boxes I have that still have prices on them from the 80's and 90's and they seem about on par. 

What are some of the quality issues everyone has experienced recently? The newest Lionel we have is a lionchief mikado santa fe and it is exquisite compared to the older stuff. I have experienced some questionable wiring on some of our 5-10 year old subway sets though. Lots of cars have needed a longer wire spliced in. From the factory they were too short and ended up breaking.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'll be cruising through the catalog, but after that last couple of clinkers from Lionel, there will be no pre-orders, I'll wait until there's some history with the new products.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

the 2018 lionel catalog is up on lionels website!
alas windows 10 and edge browser will not open it I despise windows 10.

enjoy to all those that can view it


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## tootle (Dec 11, 2013)

The catalog is big, alright. 230+ pages that covers everything...Lionel, AF, Xmas, Ready-to-Run, Power & Control, etc., etc. And of course, the standard re-hashing of the post-war pieces. That Santa Fe F3 will live forever!

Some nice stuff, especially the high-end pieces, but at $1,900 a bit more than I care to spend, especially when I consider what I already have sitting in boxes still waiting to be opened.

Like a lot of folks, I think I've reached my saturation point.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Lionel has updated the P.E. lettering so it's now below the windows for all scales of their P.E. line. Also, have reissued some of their previous traditional O scale P.E. cars giving them snowy roofs and colored window silhouettes to match their most recent P.E. Bluetooth set.
The camera mounted cupola caboose cars look interesting, too.


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## Midnight Goat (Dec 19, 2017)

There were a couple of cool cars that looked interesting, especially the looney tunes set. Most of the engines seem astronomical though. 

I noticed the Santa Fe FT AA set I've been looking to buy but has been out of stock everywhere wasn't in the catalog. Does that mean it's discontinued? Am I forced to look for a used one?


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

EB, hopefully you get a chance to view the catalog, because there's a lot there... 230+ pages worth... albeit that includes Christmas, American Flyer, Track & Power, even a few pages for Lionel HO... all in one book. Lionel wins the price for bringing back the "thud factor" of the old printed telephone books!!! 

Really a great catalog, IMHO. As I indicated earlier, I liked what I saw at York with the Niagara. And Lionel brought it in at an MSRP that's pretty close the street-price of VL BigBoy. I realize I'm comparing apples to oranges, but I couldn't resist the way the numbers worked out. 

I had already pre-ordered two Niagaras from Charlie Ro: the black #6005 and the "what if" #6001 20th Century Ltd -- even though the prices were TBA at the time. So we'll see where Charlie sets his price now. Not worried though, as Charlie's prices have always been fair. He may not always post the lowest price per se. But I learned last year that another well-known dealer who had lower prices on product made up the difference (and then some) by charging a flat shipping rate of $50 for locomotives over $1,000. And that was $50 shipping for EACH locomotive!!!  I should have known better, but never even thought anybody would do something like that nowadays.  So be warned... ALWAYS know the "full picture" before pre-ordering.

Given where I am these days with my roster of locomotives and rolling stock, I didn't plan on purchasing all that much more this year. But this catalog will challenge that resolution -- just a bit. A couple of other goodies that caught my eye were:

Great Northern 2-6-6-2
a couple of 30K tankers WITH FREIGHT-SOUNDS, YES... FINALLY!!!! And after how may years????
maybe a caboose with the camera in the cupola
some "Spirit of the Union Pacific" items... just not sure whether to go Lionel or MTH. 

Aside from the Niagaras and the Freight-Sound tankers, I'm not planning on pre-ordering. Just too many surprises lurking in the woods these days on the Lionel quality-control front. Truth be told, I've yet to be disappointed by NOT pre-ordering. And when I did pre-order a couple of items last year, I got burnt with those inflated shipping charges months later that more than made up for any perceived "better pre-order pricing".

I will admit that this is the first catalog to come out since I've taken delivery of my Dunham Studios layout (last month). So having a full-fledged operating layout DEFINITELY makes a huge difference (for me anyway) when viewing a new catalog, since I now have a much better feel for what works on my layout... and how much space I really have to run trains. Without that, I probably have to confess I'd purchase more new items than I should. So in that regard, it's nice to browse the catalog and say, "That's nice... but I really don't need it." Or, "That's nice... but I don't have space on the layout for that." 

For those of you out there looking to bolster your train rosters, this catalog has a lot of potential to do some serious damage to your wallet. So view it with caution!  I will say this though. After YEARS of harping on Lionel for their inflated prices, it appears SOMEBODY there at least "heard the message"... FINALLY. Don't get me wrong, there are still some mighty expensive items in this catalog. But I expected a higher MSRP for the Niagara, and it appears Lionel has dropped the MSRP on its high-end diesel locomotives back below the $600 mark from what had become a standard $649 MSRP the past few catalogs. I guess the REAL proof in the pudding would be if Lionel lowered the internal cost to dealers/distributors? Or are they just lowering the MSRP in the catalog to look good? Then again, perhaps Lionel is also feeling the pressure that a TON of its consumer audience has reached the saturation point after 2 or 3 decades of serious train buying. Even with BTO in play, dealers could simply be ordering less product... and Lionel is finally feeling the pinch in that regard.

On the MTH front for 2018, I'm still hoping they'll come out with Rocky Mountaineer passenger cars to go with the locomotive they produced last year. Their catalog usually comes out around York. So we'll see.....


David


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

What struck me was the variety of passenger cars. Some all new, some back in production after missing for many years. I don't think Lionel has ever done Harriman heavyweights before. I will be in for the SP RPO in daylight colors. Its actually prototypical and even has the correct car number. This will help fill out my Daylight train.
Also the return of the 18" heavyweights. I don't need those other than the baggage and RPOs in NYC colors. The TT Gray NYC streamline baggage cars may be possible but only if they are a close match to my K-Line 21" cars.
I will be on the fence with the Niagara. Cool effects but (a) I don't need another Niagara and (b) smoke units are the most failure prone of any add on feature. I don't need the aggravation. Currently dealing with a failed whistle smoke feature on my Vision Hudson.

Pete


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Norton said:


> ...
> I will be on the fence with the Niagara. Cool effects but (a) I don't need another Niagara and (b) smoke units are the most failure prone of any add on feature. I don't need the aggravation. ...


That's a very good point, Pete. And it had me thinking more than a few times about diving in that pool. I just hope I'm not setting myself up for disappointment -- especially given Lionel's poor quality-control track record of late. Perhaps Lionel realizes the gravity of their quality control problems, and they'll give their VisionLine products a bit more tender loving care. Ya think??? Or am I fooling myself??? 

David


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Last catalog hit me pretty good. This one not so much, but I do like the GN 2-6-6-2.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Fabforrest said:


> Last catalog hit me pretty good. This one not so much, but I do like the GN 2-6-6-2.


That's how it starts, Forrest. That little voice inside you is already working on getting it. 

David


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Hmmm. I gotta think about this. 

But this much is clear.

Not anything it it I want. Not a thing.

A Visionline Niagara for $1900? Not for me - all those smoke and mirror effects.. I have a scale Niagara. I can't remember if it's Lionel or MTH, but its nice and all I need. 

I'm a bit concerned that Lionchief Plus is listed in the traditional section now, which may mean that LIonel's plan is not to extend it to any more scale locos (the Camelback, the SD60 recently shipped). Neither of those is listed - strange that the LC+ SD60 was in only one catalog and then is gone. The A5 which is scale is still listed, but . . . 

Disappointing.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Well, if I was to pull the trigger on any locos it would be the Tacoma Rail diesel. A couple big buck steamers would fit in real well on my layout but the common sense gene kicked in.

Bill


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I'll have to check it out but won't buy anything. I'm strickly MTH now.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> ... So much about this is, well . . . really weird the timing, the lack of build-up and pre-release publicity, linking it to York or big events, etc.
> 
> Then again, Lionel is doing strange things any more.


Lee, the other anomaly with this catalog is the lack of dealers who are scrambling to post pre-order prices today. I realize the ink isn't even dry on the virtual pages we're browsing online right now. But with recent catalogs, dealers were racing to win the prize for being the first dealer to post pre-order pricing.  Yet as of this post, only two major dealers (that I could see anyway)... MrMuffins Trains and Legacy Station... have integrated the new Lionel 2018 catalog products & pricing into their websites. I gotta believe Lionel sent out a "dealer sales kit" to include product graphics and price spreadsheets, since I've heard from a few folks who saw a pre-order price sheet preview last week at their LHS.

I guess at the end of the day, Lionel's MAP (minimum advertised pricing) policy has really cut down the dealer frenzy at catalog time, and it's leveled the playing field in terms of what dealers of all sizes can openly advertise. MAP is not a new concept and is used in other industries too -- not just toy trains. Often times, if you add the product to your shopping cart, you may see a better price than what's openly advertised in a price sheet or website gallery. But as I mentioned earlier, if you find somebody who is grossly undercutting other dealers for the same product... be sure you understand their shipping policies, since that could easily bring the overall cost you pay back in line with other dealer prices -- and sometimes even exceed those prices.

Bottom line... cultivate a good relationship with a reputable dealer, and they won't disappoint you.

David

P.S. I see Nassau Hobbies has also posted their pre-order pricing now... but you need to look in their "preorder" section at this link... http://www.nassauhobby.com/Pre-Orders/. You also need to call the store for their "best" pre-order pricing, since they can't advertise below Lionel's MAP... which, by the way, appears to be $1710 street-price for the VL Niagaras.

Some folks are curious about the special Niagara available exclusively through the LCCA. So it will be interesting to see what's different/unique about that model, and what the LCCA's price will be. With dealers advertising $1710, and Lionel's MSRP of $1899 in the catalog... the LCCA will be in a challenging spot to ask its club members to pay full MSRP.

I'm still waiting to see Charlie Ro's pricing for those who pre-ordered a Niagara (or two) before Lionel established its pricing. No deposits required... fair prices in general... and a well-defined and well-published shipping policy.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

As best I could understand MAP pricing is they can only advertise 10% off on all scale Locomotives, BTO or otherwise. I don't see most rolling stock affected by this directive. Maybe Vision items??
Some may offer free shipping on big ticket items as a way to compete.

Pete


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Norton said:


> As best I could understand MAP pricing is they can only advertise 10% off on all scale Locomotives, BTO or otherwise. I don't see most rolling stock affected by this directive. Maybe Vision items??
> Some may offer free shipping on big ticket items as a way to compete.
> 
> Pete


Pete, yes... MAP is strictly an ADVERTISING limitation. But some dealers may offer "private" coupon codes and such, whereby they're SELLING below MAP. SELLING is strictly between the dealer and consumer. Lionel can't dictate a specific selling price -- only an advertising price. So in this case, yes... $1710 represents a 10% discount off the Niagara's $1900 MSRP. But I'm sure some dealers will "sell" for less than that "privately". 

However it's important to understand the shipping costs which may not come into play until products are delivered. That's one of the reasons I like ordering from Charlie Ro.... his shipping policies are well-defined up front, and you know what you're EXACT total price will be on the day you place the order.

I'm not at all affiliated with Charles Ro... I've just purchased from Charlie on a regular basis since the late 1970's, so I have a lot of history with the store. I also "spread my business" with a few other dealers as well... like Nassau Hobbies when they have great after-delivery sales, and Hennings Trains in Lansdale, PA who has recently renovated their store to look like a brand new old-style, neighborhood hobby store from decades ago. I don't even mind paying PA sales tax at Hennings, because there's definitely value in being able to stop in, chat trains, and purchase model railroad supplies for various projects I'm working on. They also have some great sales throughout the year on locomotives and rolling stock too.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Like the catalog and will probably order the tank cars with sound. Don't see much else that is of interest to us right now. 

I was impressed with the quality of the catalog and look forward to receiving a copy.

We have bought from a Charlie since the early 1980's. He is quality.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2018)

My focus in he hobby is very narrow. Within that narrow focus, it is further defined for my preference for Lightweight passenger cars. This new catalog is an absolute zero for me, like they have been for quite some time. No problem as I have more than sufficient equipment and really have no need to add to the inventory. If there was something spectacular, I would jump at it, but alas, nothing.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Although I will not be buying anything from the catalog - I posted earlier my thoughts and why, I will put in an endorsement of sorts for that 2-6-6-2. 

I have an earlier version of this loco. What I particularly like about it is that even though it is big and articulated, it does not have a ridiculous amount of front boiler stick out on curves. It is much better than anything else I have except the Vision CC2 which is so short. Among all my articulated locos, its the only one I run a lot because it is the only one that looks even halfway realistic onmy 72"curves. 

Nice loco.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> My focus in he hobby is very narrow. Within that narrow focus, it is further defined for my preference for Lightweight passenger cars. This new catalog is an absolute zero for me, like they have been for quite some time. No problem as I have more than sufficient equipment and really have no need to add to the inventory. If there was something spectacular, I would jump at it, but alas, nothing.


What would qualify as spectacular to you??


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I may spring for the video caboose, but I'm going to want to see it in action first.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> David, I believe that the semi-annual release of electric train catalogs have lost some of their luster over the past 5 years. The Lionel out of box quality issues along with the BTO program has probably turned off a lot of the Lionel faithful.
> 
> Also a lot of folks, me included, have reached that age that common sense prevails. At 71 years old just how many more expensive locos do I really need, the quick answer is ZERO.
> 
> ...


Bill, I hear ya!!! You have a few more years on me (I'm 58). But 10 years ago I would have had a multi-page list of things to order from a catalog like this one. But alas... I'm down to a very, very short list. And even at that, I may trim it down a bit, since the caboose with camera is a definite "maybe". Our saturation points are very, very real. And that may very well be Lionel's biggest hurdle to overcome -- more so than competing against other suppliers.

David


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

I figured I'd find something I liked since I'm a newbie with only three MTH engines and no Lionel engines at all. Also, being a midwest guy, this catalog really hit the spot with me regarding road names (except no MoPac). And since I'm anti-Legacy & DCS, it's a bonus that all the engines I'm interested in have Bluetooth. 

I'll be ordering 4 engines.

SW7 Frisco
GP9 Wabash Torpedo
NW2 MKT (LC+)
RS3 Peabody

I'm also ordering the Peabody Hopper 6 pack ($149 is a bargain for 6 cars), the Anheuser-Busch set, and various accessories. Again, it's a target rich environment for a guy like me but I'm very happy with this catalog.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Lionel's MAP (minimum advertised pricing) policy


David,

Thanks for all the info regarding MAP, dealer pre-orders, etc. Very helpful for a beginner.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm not ordering items when I've been waiting for two years on product to arrive. 

The UP Excursion train has yet to be delivered, but _ The Challenger_ passenger set is in the new catalog. 

I had to laugh when I saw THAT!

Logic doesn't apply at Lionel and especially with no control over their factories...

I must say, I'm glad I'm not a NYC or PRR fan! Lots of great items!


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Years ago I bought the Coastal Freight Set, one of my favorite. With the advent of TMCC and Legacy I don't run it much anymore. I see there's a LC+ D&H RS3 in the new catalog. That might perk my interest.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

86TA355SR said:


> ...
> Logic doesn't apply at Lionel and especially with no control over their factories...


So true... And I was thinking the same thing when I saw those new UP Challenger passenger cars catalog'd, when the UP Excursion cars are nowhere to be found. That was like rubbing salt in the wound for folks who are still waiting for the UP Excursion cars to arrive.

The complete lack of control over Chinese factories is really coming through front-and-center these days. The guys designing the catalog do a great job getting the troops to order with all kinds of enthusiasm. And then several months later, reality hits and we realize that Lionel Stateside doesn't have a clue when/if any of this stuff is gonna be manufactured. That's gotta be frustrating on so many fronts... for Lionel Stateside employees as well as consumers.

I wonder how many of these items are gonna arrive in Nov/Dec 2018???  This is a huge book to back-load production of so many items for later in the year. And let's not forget, there's still products from 2017 Volume 2 yet to be delivered.

David


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2018)

Lionel is calling this catalog "The Big Book"! 

It starts out great! I like the VL Niagra and will probably pre-order one soon and then wait helplessly and hope for a late December 2018 delivery. 

Other than that, I think this catalog should be more accurately called "The Big Book of Disappointment"! 

Come on Lionel! You've got to do better than this! What the heck am I supposed to do with ORANGE Fastrak?!?

Emile


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Looked through it tonight and noticed nothing more than disappointing motive power and many toy-like items. Nothing I'd buy. 

How much longer can Lionel go on like this before it folds?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Well there is a Spokane Portland & Seattle gondola in the catalog but I have to buy the 6 pack which has 5 other gondolas that I would not want.

Bill


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

As a rule, I buy mostly MTH. I do buy Lionel but I am more interested in DCS than Legacy and the Lionel prices are just too high. The last Lionel engine I bought is the Mogul and that has quality problems. I am also at a point that I don't need much more trains. That said, I don't plan to order anything from this catalog. One little thing caught my eye. The Elmer Fudd, Bugs Bunny stock car. I have a Looney Tunes Train and this is a new item. I have the Yosemite Sam, Bugs car that is the same as the E Fudd version. This is a cheap O-27 car with two figures that bob up and down. But at MSRP of $85 forget it. I may be foolish but I'm not stupid.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Well there is a Spokane Portland & Seattle gondola in the catalog but I have to buy the 6 pack which has 5 other gondolas that I would not want.
> 
> Bill


I would pay you for one.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer I did get to view the catalog had to use IE 11 ironic edge browser still hasn't a clue.
I looked saw the Milwaukee road s-3 looks to be same as the one I bought years ago whoopee? 

sorry I'm in age group that I have all I need to run odd they mention a fallen employee which was nice on the part of lionel to do so.
I hope the rest found something they just had to have and enjoy them for a long time.

but the lack of any at the top of management apology for the lack of quality control speaks volumes! 

only my 2 cents


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC I'm with you I see nothing I want or need I think with age we already have more than we need and are content a nice feeling actually hmmm could we be retired


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2018)

EB, yes we are retired, but for me it is more of whether something in the catalog jumps out at you. I remember the days when there was so much equipment in the catalog that I wanted. Those days based upon the last several catalogs have gone.

If there is not another catalog until next year, no problem if it is like this one.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Spent some time reviewing the catalog today. 

I like the UP SD70 and matching cars. Nice steam offerings and some other stuff. Like the Lionscale hoppers and reefers, but just can't justify the cost. Eventually I'll find on secondary market for pennies on the dollar. 

Just speculating, but maybe matching passenger cars for the RPOs in Vol II?


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Actually, looking through it one more time, the six-pack of PFE wooden sided reefers in the experimental paint scheme is a bit intriguing. Perhaps. Maybe. Or maybe not.


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## TGP (Sep 6, 2015)

*Big BOOK*

IT is a BIG BOOK, Cmon u guys know why, that has happened.
Have we got any current paper or past Buyers/Sellers of 
Trees ( paper). then how much did Lionel save by not making 
multiple catalogs, in just the covers alone. Much less the art work, and multiple greeting pages in each catalog, handling of
how to get 5 catalogs, inside the plastic to ship them out 
everybody. Anyway the back part of the catalog, looks like 
a past TOYS R 'US Store !!!!!!!!!!! Oh, and we all know where
they are at now. I certainly hope not to the massive Icon
of Toy train products, but you never know. Any way
my $50 bucks better spent on this , than page 33 of the big
book Catalog. Mine is Aluminum, and there's is plastic.
But did not think, I have a hunt now to begin, there are 3 more!!


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## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

I think they missed an opportunity by not making a more classic-looking Budweiser train. I think they could even make a scale version like they did with the Polar Express. Horse boarding cars, a flat carrying the wagon, etc. How great would that look around a ceiling layout around a bar. Or just on display above the bar.

With all of these disconnect cars, I was also expecting to see some sort of super small locomotive to pull them.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

towdog said:


> I think they missed an opportunity by not making a more classic-looking Budweiser train.


I agree that I'd like a more classic looking engine but I'll take it. AND if that Clydesdale car works like it should (horses bobbing in and out of the car), that will be a hit around here anyway!


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

Catalog was okay but not anything that said buy me! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2018)

SDIV Tim said:


> Catalog was okay but not anything that said buy me!


That's it in a nutshell! And that's the problem! This is supposed to be Lionel's "Big Reveal". We should all have printed out versions of the catalog with page after page dog-eared and lots of things circled. Our conversation should be about how we're going to afford all these great new trains. 

Lionel has missed the mark badly and it isn't even February yet. What is their next big play? Big Book 2019? That's a long time. 

MTH must be loving this. There's blood in the water and MTH has been taking the lead in recent years anyway. Even with the Polar Express in it's bag, Lionel got hammered by MTH this past Christmas with all the new MTH lighted houses and LED decorated trains.

It's Emergency Meeting time in North Carolina! It's Party Time in Columbia, Maryland.

Emile


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

_*It's Emergency Meeting time in North Carolina! It's Party Time in Columbia, Maryland.

Emile*_

Emile, one other thing to consider is that Lionel has to meet profit projections set by their owner, Guggenheim Capitol Investments. Whereas Mike Wolf only has to meet expenses and not be concerned about a profit margin for someone else. Mike certainly wants MTH to be as profitable as possible but his job is not on the line if those profits don't meet projections.

Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

seayakbill said:


> _*It's Emergency Meeting time in North Carolina! It's Party Time in Columbia, Maryland.
> 
> Emile*_
> 
> ...


Yes, BUT . . . I think MTHh manages to make good money too. I think the big difference is this: MTH is run by management that 
a) understands toy trains
b) likes toy trains
c) is thinking about the long-run, not just next quarter's profits
d) is willing to take calculated risks
I have been very close to several companies like Guggenheim Capital. They have smart, hard-working professional MBA-type managers who run the business tightly and correctly, but uniformly (in my experience) with a complete lack of imagination and always with vision that allows them to see negative-outcome risks much more than the positive benefits of opportunities. They never do anything new. 

A move like this most recent Lionel catalog, is exactly the type of thing them do. It usually leads to cost-reduction but no improvement in market position or changes that can (and will) be interpreted positively by those who want to pat themselves on the back for sound decision-making. Meanwhile, a meaningful strategic move, like MTH made in commiting to its European Series of locos and European sales, is something management at most companies like Guggenheim would never do. That is why I think Lionel is on a slow (for now) downward spiral, whereas MTH will be the big dog soon (if it isn't already - at least int he market I care about).


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I guess I better make sure my new layout supports DCS properly, looks like I may be buying more MTH stuff again.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Ok let me add a couple of points. Lionel may not be run by a train guy but there are train guys making decisions there in particular Ryan Kunkle. If you listen to the podcasts he does the research and is more focused on making prototypically correct product than anyone else I have encountered. He knows trains and attempts to make accurate models and also ones aimed at less well known roadnames.

In the past few years Lionel has offered many items they have not done in the past. For MTH I can only name the 44 tonner.
For Lionel the scale NW2 and SW7s, the Niagara is supposedly all new tooling, ACF passenger cars, ESE cars that are pretty much prototypically correct, The UP 21" cars (they will eventually show up). Now the Harriman style passenger cars. I am not in the market for freight cars so can't speak to those.

For a NYC fan there are ton of items of interest in this catalog.

Where they lose me, a NYC fan, is the pricing is off the wall. I could afford it but as Buffet has said price is what you pay, value is what you get. The value isn't there for me.

The one that jumps out for me is the 2 pack of 18" heavyweight baggage cars. List at $350, discount at $250 at some places. $125 / car.
You can find 18" baggage cars on the auction sites at 30-40 bucks all day. Some decals and you can make a mail express longer than any engine can handle.

Bottom line I do see some innovation at Lionel but if they don't control their prices more and more are going to be looking elsewhere.

Pete


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## slider162 (Dec 19, 2012)

What got me was the price of the S3 in the 17V2 catalog. How did this go from $994.99 to $1,699.99?

http://www.lionel.com/products/milwaukee-road-legacy-scale-4-8-4-s-3-northern-261-6-11229/

$200 difference between the 17V2 S3 and Niagara, that is a no brainer. Cancelled my order for the S3. 

If MTH DCS Remote didn't look, feel, and function like it was put together in some backroom of a Bejing factory I would be more onboard with MTH. The WIFI/App is intermittent at best. MTH is good for Christmas trains and that is what I use them for. That combined with the fact that MTH still wants $1,000+ for locomotives without whistle steam. The Legacy remote keeps me coming back to Lionel. But yeah, the 17V2 catalog has me more excited than the Big Book.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I guess I better make sure my new layout supports DCS properly, looks like I may be buying more MTH stuff again.


Or you could just go to conventional operation and not worry about control at all.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

slider162 said:


> What got me was the price of the S3 in the 17V2 catalog. How did this go from $994.99 to $1,699.99?
> 
> http://www.lionel.com/products/milwaukee-road-legacy-scale-4-8-4-s-3-northern-261-6-11229/
> 
> $200 difference between the 17V2 S3 and Niagara, that is a no brainer. Cancelled my order for the S3.


I think most will say the original S3 was underpriced at best. It probably should have been in the $1299 to $1399 range. With that in mind the pricing between the two gets a little closer.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

unless you know the actual build cost of the original s-3 the underpriced statement is pure conjecture.

the latest offering will assume the whistle smoke and Bluetooth must cost $350 for each feature?

I am so glad I own the first s-3 lionel made.
the bigger question is did they use a better hose from smoke unit to create the blowdown effect?
after I replaced the clear hose with an automotive hose it works and stays connected I also made a styrene tube extension where it connected to the hole for cylinder steam hose in frame under the smoke unit now that end of the hose connection stays put.

for those buying the latest version enjoy and if they still use the original smoke setup add more than 20 drops of fluid as it has to seep over to the blowdown side of smoke unit then it works really well.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Conjecture or not, I tend to agree with Jeff T. I think that S3 was the "victim" of Lionel's reluctance to cross the $1,000 barrier. But once crossed, there seemed no reason to not go far. Hence $1,600 now.

I think Legacy locos like the 2-6-6-2 are overpriced, but only by a little. And frankly, its either pay the price, hope MTH has one similar that you like, (typically saving you about $200 - $300, or do without. I imagine a good many people will buy even if the price seems steep. Knowing how good it is, if I didn't already have a good Legacy 2-6-6-2, I'd buy one now. Just a fantastic loco.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Norton said:


> ...
> For a NYC fan there are ton of items of interest in this catalog.
> 
> Where they lose me, a NYC fan, is the pricing is off the wall. I could afford it but as Buffet has said price is what you pay, value is what you get. The value isn't there for me.
> ...


Pete, you have essentially nailed it big-time! And thankfully, there's a place like MTF where we're able to have candid and open discussions like this.

Here are some comments I attempted to post over on "the other place" that were not allowed. My comments (in blue text below) were in response to something somebody else had posted on a thread about pricing. My account has been on "full moderation status" over there since the beginning of the new year, so anything I post must be reviewed before it's allowed to go live. (Hey, somebody over there must have too much time on their hands and enjoys the power-kick. ) This post didn't make the cut: 

_xxxxxxxxx posted:
... In my opinion the real elephant in the room, is the future when repair boards or parts aren't available for the newer exotic engines.​_This might just be the most thought-provoking post in the entire thread so far. We often talk about the "price premium" for anything that's brand spanking new. It's the amount we pay for something that's above and beyond its true value to us as consumers. For example, we may think something is worth $1,000, but we pay $1,600 for it anyway because it's the newest thing on the block to own. That extra $600 is essentially "throw-away money" that goes toward components that have ZERO value to us as consumers: (i.e., manufacturing overhead, supply chain overhead, executive salaries, administrative overhead, etc... just to name a few).

So yes... as bonafide enthusiasts we may choose to pay the inflated price anyway to enjoy it NOW. But just imagine how worthless these premium-priced toys become years down the road when they're nothing more than beautiful shelf-queens, because the parts no longer exist to keep them operational. I guess we'll all have beautiful wall displays that rival the best toy train museums.​

Now was there a bit of hyperbole in my comments? Well heck yea... of course! That was the whole point. But I think we're essentially saying the same thing here... namely if we DON'T choose to pay the inflated price(s), then we're likely gonna look somewhere else -- even if we CAN afford the inflated price. 

As I mentioned earlier, I thought the Niagara's price came in under what I expected from Lionel. And it appears its street-price below MAP will essentially come in a bit under $1,600. Is that a lot? Absolutely. But I also recall paying MORE than that for the first JLC Challengers that came out almost 20 years ago.

For those of us who are tempted to buy the VL Niagara for $1600, we just need to do it with both eyes open -- knowing full well that at some point down the road parts may not be available to fix it. Now that might or might not occur in my lifetime, but it's more likely to happen with today's modern products with exotic electronics and more features than the postwar toy train ancestors that are still running 60+ years later. But now we're comparing apples to oranges in two totally different worlds.  And for the time I'm still alive, I'd rather have today's toy trains running on my layout. So that's part of what I factor into MY value equation -- as intangible as that might be. But I do agree, there's only so much money I'd want to "throw away" (using my earlier analogy). And if there's another supplier who can offer similar features for less cost (i.e., less throw-away money), then I'm certainly gonna do it.

Once again, thank God for a place like MTF where we can post thoughtful commentary without being overtly censored by one or two folks with nothing better to do.

David


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

With experiences like that, I don't know why frequent posters even bother posting in the "other forum." But then hey, maybe that's just me.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Yellowstone Special said:


> With experiences like that, I don't know why frequent posters even bother posting in the "other forum." But then hey, maybe that's just me.


I find myself asking that same question more frequently now, Vern.  I guess I just enjoy the COMMUNITY of model railroaders wherever they happen to be, but I don't have a single good word to say about the way the other place is run. Never have.... never will. And that's why we didn't document my layout's construction progress over there. BTW, stay tuned for another video I'm editing right now featuring more operations on my Allegheny & Pacific Railway! Dunham Studios came back to tweak a few items after the layout settled into its new home, and we had 4 trains running simultaneously... what a blast!!! 

David


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Looking forward to it, David. :thumbsup:


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> The complete lack of control over Chinese factories is really coming through front-and-center these days. The guys designing the catalog do a great job getting the troops to order with all kinds of enthusiasm. And then several months later, reality hits and we realize that Lionel Stateside doesn't have a clue when/if any of this stuff is gonna be manufactured. That's gotta be frustrating on so many fronts... for Lionel Stateside employees as well as consumers.
> 
> I wonder how many of these items are gonna arrive in Nov/Dec 2018???  This is a huge book to back-load production of so many items for later in the year. And let's not forget, there's still products from 2017 Volume 2 yet to be delivered. David


I'm a bit late to this party but having read the thread I hope someone from Lionel does too (I imagine they do monitor this forum although they don't post here). The above, in particular the first sentence, certainly explains my reluctance to go for anything much in this catalog and obviously weighs heavily with other dedicated customers as well.

To be honest I wasn't expecting much from this catalog even with some encouraging advance publicity that came from Ryan K. In the event there are no engines at all that interest me and if I buy anything it will be one of the slightly gimmicky LED flag boxcars. A UP version might look good with a set of special run K-Line boxcars I got years ago from a now defunct bricks and mortar establishment.hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> Or you could just go to conventional operation and not worry about control at all.


That ain't happening Lee.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

David,
I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment.

After waiting on product for two years and a BTO order not as advertised I had to 'punt' on this catalog. 

I want Lionel to succeed-it helps all aspects of the O Scale hobby, not just 3R. When product arrives on schedule and items are delivered as advertised, I'll be happy to order.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Lee Willis said:


> Or you could just go to conventional operation and not worry about control at all.


As an engineer I'm surprised you haven't embraced command control.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

86TA355SR said:


> ...
> After waiting on product for two years and a BTO order not as advertised I had to 'punt' on this catalog. ...


Certainly can feel your pain. FWIW, we may FINALLY be seeing the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel with respect to 21" passenger cars. The first group of 2 or 3 roadnames has finally arrived in-stock at Charles Ro. Can't speak for your UP Excursion cars though, aside from the ETA still holding steady at 4/10/2018.

Hang in there! Your long wait may soon be over. 

David


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

highvoltage said:


> As an engineer I'm surprised you haven't embraced command control.


Well, I had Legacy early on (the first year it came out. I ended up not using it most of the time and gave away the equipment. 

My reasons for going conventional are:
1) TMCC, Legacy, DCS and DCC are too much like work.
2) Conventional works well.
3) It is the only control system that runs everything.
4) Always works, no programming, no hassles. 
5) Its the way my Dad taught me to run trains.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

I thought the catalog was a hit. I liked alot of things that Lionel has. Gonna spring for the Niagara and also the Reading & northern Pacific 425 with the AUX tender. Still thinking about the Caboose with the camera? Will you be able to watch it on a regular TV?


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

laz57 said:


> I thought the catalog was a hit. I liked alot of things that Lionel has. Gonna spring for the Niagara and also the Reading & northern Pacific 425 with the AUX tender. Still thinking about the Caboose with the camera? Will you be able to watch it on a regular TV?


that was my question too. I think maybe you can only watch it on your smart phone, which leaves me out. I have a smart phone, but I'm dumb - so all I can do with it is telephone people.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They claim a PC based utility for the caboose, but I'm waiting to see if it has HD broadcast, I don't want a fuzzy picture.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> They claim a PC based utility for the caboose, but I'm waiting to see if it has HD broadcast, I don't want a fuzzy picture.


If the image is HD of 1080P or higher then the price is very good. Especially compared to $300-$500 for a GoPro. This could be a very good value.

Emile


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Rocky Mountaineer;2100034
[I said:


> xxxxxxxxx posted:
> ... In my opinion the real elephant in the room, is the future when repair boards or parts aren't available for the newer exotic engines...​[/I]
> ... just imagine how worthless these premium-priced toys become years down the road when they're nothing more than beautiful shelf-queens, because the parts no longer exist to keep them operational... at some point down the road parts may not be available to fix it....
> David​




I know for numerous nontrain items the law requires that parts need to be made available for a period of time after the item is no longer manufactured, but what about model trains? Does either that same law or a similar law apply to them?

Btw, having no experience with ordering replacement parts for O gauge model trains, especially their electronic parts, do all the major O gauge train manufacturers have a similar policy for making "past" parts available (and for the same period of time) or is their one who's "better" than the rest?​


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

I am a little disappointed by it. The caboose with camera is nice, but gets tiring quickly. A lot of nice looking passenger cars, but not any "have to haves" for me.

Only one Milwaukee Road diesel and I was hoping for yard switchers or road switchers.

Does anyone know how many pickup rollers Lionel is putting on their new engines? I have gotten very picky about that as having 4 on most engines eliminates any problems with long switches for me. A switcher with plenty of pickup rollers navigates yard switches beautifully and makes operating sessions much more enjoyable. 

Art


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

N and W, what the heck is that? We have been forced to go to MTH and Third Rail. And we have over 60 Lionel engines. In the last two years, mostly MTH with a few NS diesels. A little modern is okay but that isn't us.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TheBigCrabCake said:


> If the image is HD of 1080P or higher then the price is very good. Especially compared to $300-$500 for a GoPro. This could be a very good value.
> 
> Emile


My exact issue Emile. There is nothing anywhere about the resolution of the camera broadcast, I'm not buying until that is resolved.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I can never get the Lionel Catalog to open on my computer. It allows me to start the process but "freezes" and shows no desire to move forward. 

So, I hope I can get the real paper catalog at Hobby Haven soon. Do they ship them out simultaneously?


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

It won't open using windows explorer. I used google chrome last night and that worked fine to open the catalogue.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2018)

Bryan Moran said:


> I can never get the Lionel Catalog to open on my computer. It allows me to start the process but "freezes" and shows no desire to move forward.


Make sure you have the latest version of Adobe Flash Player. It's a free download. Just Google "Adobe Flash Player" and the first link on the list should be the official Adobe site. It should auto direct you based on the your computer type (PC or MAC). They also offer it free for Android systems (Non iPhone and Non iPad).

Another alternative is to download Google Chrome as your web browser. Again, it's a free download.

Good luck!

Emile


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can also download the PDF of the catalog and view it with Adobe Viewer.


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## gpritch (Jun 20, 2015)

I think a lot you are missing the fun stuff here. Sure, the high end steam is saturated (no pun intended). However, the video camera caboose will be a hit at ~$125. 

Did everyone miss the sound tank cars? The original ethanol cars still command well over $500. These will be a nice addition to my fleet.

I also think the R&N Aux Tank car will be a winner, albeit a bit pricy. 

Furthermore, Lionel has finally offered the sensor track components separately. The separate sale sensor is ~$30. This is great news for all of us non-fast track users.

Over, I think the catalog was a WIN!
:appl::appl::appl:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The sound tank cars are the same sounds as the conventional sound boxcars. They are not command controlled.

The Vision Line Ethanol Tank Cars command a high price because there was two cars with sound in the three car set, and they had a much more diverse sound selection. They also did cool things like sense you were on a curve and increase the flange squeal, very tricky. They also are command controlled, it's apples and oranges.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> I can never get the Lionel Catalog to open on my computer. It allows me to start the process but "freezes" and shows no desire to move forward.
> 
> So, I hope I can get the real paper catalog at Hobby Haven soon. Do they ship them out simultaneously?


I had the same issue.

Try this link:

http://catalogs.lionel.com/18bb/

Click on "Adobe" in upper left of screen. Click 'allow' and wait for catalog to load.

I had to remove the "html5" at the end of the web address. Worked like a charm.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The sound tank cars are the same sounds as the conventional sound boxcars. They are not command controlled.
> 
> The Vision Line Ethanol Tank Cars command a high price because there was two cars with sound in the three car set, and they had a much more diverse sound selection. They also did cool things like sense you were on a curve and increase the flange squeal, very tricky. They also are command controlled, it's apples and oranges.


Correct... and Ryan from Lionel confirmed that in a quick passing comment on his Facebook live event the day after the catalog was released. If you weren't listening closely, you could easily have missed the comment. I heard the comment, and quickly scratched those tankers w/sound off my list.  At least until I see/hear what Lionel actually delivers. If it's anything like the boxcars with sound, it's much ado about nothing. I returned mine unopened after I heard how poorly they sounded compared to the VL cars w/sound.

David


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> If it's anything like the boxcars with sound, it's much ado about nothing.
> 
> David


I still have mine but never run them. Annoying and another bone I have to pick with Lionel.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> ... I returned mine unopened after I heard how poorly they sounded compared to the VL cars w/sound.
> 
> David


I did the same. Expected great sounds but decided the cars weren't what I wanted.

I suspect there's very few of us returning product when we aren't happy with what was delivered or we'd see some changes happening...


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

86TA355SR said:


> I had the same issue.
> 
> Try this link:
> 
> ...


Thanks. I just clicked on your link and went to town. I like magazines and catalogs better than having that on the computer so what I viewed will get me by until Hobby Haven gets the paper catalogs. 

Since I am based in Iowa and collect Midwest granger lines especially the Rock Island, this is a huge disappointment. There was literally no R.I. even rolling stock. 

However, this may mean that there are few R.I. orders from previous catalogs and Lionel is simply catering to demand. 

But - I also saw few Southwest flags such as Southern Pacific and Santa Fe. Overall the diversity of brands in the locomotives was poor. 

There were some tank cars that I can see buying. The "O Gauge"? or "O Scale" I can't remember now (the less than full 1:48) was disappointing. After rolling through the 1:48 true scale stuff and seeing only one Union Pacific locomotive, I believe it was SD70, I was hoping for a "2nd chance" with O Gauge. Not so. 

Some Milwaukee Road, some C&NW and so on but no "wow I gotta have it" moments. I had that in the last catalog when I plopped down $750 and waited 10 months for the Great Northern "Hustle Muscle". So I am a buyer if the locomotives are there. 

Moving back to the accessories, there are some I will be buying, and I "guess" it will be nice to have all of the LIONEL product in one catalog for 2018. 

Then the Christmas offerings were interesting. Didn't we see quite a few "Christmas" layout questions this past year? This must be a growing segment of the market - to run trains under the tree. And that makes sense, scratch where it itches. 

Some of you have been running layouts under the tree for years but with the suburban yuppie set hoping to outdo the Joneses, this might be a profitable market segment. 

Note to Lionel: RUN A TV AD! How about running a TV ad segment in early November featuring RTR train sets that can be put under the tree, simple and easy. Show the family beaming and clapping. 

Say at the end: "See your local hobby store or call 1-800-LIONEL for details".

This would be highly successful and lead to kids and dads alike thinking about a basement layout.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

ogaugeguy said:


> I know for numerous nontrain items the law requires that parts need to be made available for a period of time after the item is no longer manufactured, but what about model trains? Does either that same law or a similar law apply to them?
> 
> Btw, having no experience with ordering replacement parts for O gauge model trains, especially their electronic parts, do all the major O gauge train manufacturers have a similar policy for making "past" parts available (and for the same period of time) or is their one who's "better" than the rest?


I am running conventional partly because I am new to the hobby and just having a fairly authentic train running around ANY layout will be a marked improvement over seeing other train layouts run and being envious.

I have a mix of new and old, all run conventional. I get smoke, I get some train crew sounds, and locomotive sounds - all in conventional, so I am not sure right now I want to reach for the stars.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Looked through it tonight and noticed nothing more than disappointing motive power and many toy-like items. Nothing I'd buy.
> 
> How much longer can Lionel go on like this before it folds?


Agree. Not a lot of content for a catalog called the "Big Book". I could not believe the page after page of kids crap. (No offense). 

All the special rolling stock devoted to putting your anniversary photo on a box car???? C'mon. Most of us are in it for the authentic recreation of trains, not gimmicks. 

I know this because the Christmas rolling stock and other nonsense cars are marked down at Hobby Haven and sit there for a L-O-N-G time.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I may spring for the video caboose, but I'm going to want to see it in action first.


This is where the local hobby store comes in. I travel throughout the Midwest and visit as many hobby stores as I can to view their products for sale. 

Only ONE - my local store - has a tired old O Scale layout - AND IT STILL DRAWS STARES AND INTEREST every time I go in. But, with one old timer out on medical leave, they just run the same train, at slow speeds, over and over again. 

Why not buy one of these cabooses for display purposes, and figure out how it can display an image, set up a lap top and use that as a marketing tool? 

Being the best hobby store in the area, this store does draw in the yuppies with money from the 'burbs with kids in tow quite often. This would be a great opportunity to connect with a new younger market.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bryan Moran said:


> Agree. Not a lot of content for a catalog called the "Big Book". I could not believe the page after page of kids crap. (No offense).


Remember, those kids are the future of the hobby. 



Bryan Moran said:


> This is where the local hobby store comes in. I travel throughout the Midwest and visit as many hobby stores as I can to view their products for sale.


You must have missed my signature line.  I have a local hobby shop, and that's where I'll be checking out the caboose when and if it ever shows up.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Remember, those kids are the future of the hobby.
> 
> You must have missed my signature line.  I have a local hobby shop, and that's where I'll be checking out the caboose when and if it ever shows up.


Yes I missed that BUT I already have Hennings Trains saved as a favorite on my laptop. Because of the stage I am at on the layout, I have not gotten into my saved favorites much. I believe I found HENNINGS TRAINS in Model Railroad Craftsman magazine? Not 100% sure now.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

If anyone interested, best price i saw on these Camera Cabooses was with CHARLES RO at $89.95 He is also giving a pre order price on the steam and diesels. 

Here's ro site if interested.

http://charlesro-com.3dcartstores.com/assets/html/welcome_to_charles_ro.html


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