# My better than 4x8 Layout



## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

So my son (8) is bananas about trains. I blame Thomas the TV series and the "A day with Thomas" events. 

I used to have a Tyco set as kid.
While my modeling interests are mainly with planes. I have to help my son with his train obsession.
So, started thinking putting together a 4x8 layout and was quickly told by many people is not the best use of space. So here we go this is our first layout and it will use a 10x8 space.

Reading LayoutVisions really liked one of his plans.

Because of the size of the garage where this will live we flipped the plan.
Here it is ... Let this adventure begin.

Been trying to find someone who has actually built this "water wing" layout


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That is an awesome layout design. It has everything for continuous running,
and switching. You'll have a lot of fun with this one. When you get it
built post the 'as built' drawing on my thread in Layout Design Forum.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=66578


I'm sure Matt would like to have it in his layout thread in the same
Forum.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=66818

I assume you'll be using flex track and I want to urge that your
turnouts be Peco Insulfrog to eliminate derails.

Don


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*Benchwork*

Benchwork design finalized.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

did you trace your foot for that cut out? lol

Looking good!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Geez, if you spent less time playing with the CAD tool and more time building, you'd be done by now! 

Seriously, Byron at LayoutVision does most of his work for paying clients. Everything he designs is buildable. Shoot him an e-mail; he may not reveal the identity of his client, but he will probably share any info he has on whether it was built and how it turned out.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> That is an awesome layout design. It has everything for continuous running,
> and switching. You'll have a lot of fun with this one. When you get it
> built post the 'as built' drawing on my thread in Layout Design Forum.
> 
> ...


I have never known Byron Henderson of LayoutVision to make everything less than an awesome design.

However, anything you got from his site is copyrighted, so be careful how you post it and credit it.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> I have never known Byron Henderson of LayoutVision to make everything less than an awesome design.
> 
> However, anything you got from his site is copyrighted, so be careful how you post it and credit it.


Yes that is true. 
However I'm careful to credit his web site as the source of the information.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

From Byron:


Hello Robert,

I am very happy for you to build this design and also for you to share it on the Internet as long as you credit my site -- and it's great if you can include a link.

This layout has been built at least a couple of times in roughly this size room or a little larger. I hope to have an article about it in the commercial press in the future.

Good luck with your layout.

Regards,

Byron


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

Information about Byron's designs can be found here:


http://www.layoutvision.com/id56.html


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Byron also contributes to both Model Railroader and Model Railroad Hobbyist. He was a regular columnist in the latter for many years.

BTW, my previous post should have said, "ANYTHING less than an awesome design". I think autocorrect got me on that one.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

There are a couple corners of the room that will be very difficult to reach. You might consider rounding those corners in toward the layout to support scenery as well as easy of access.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

D&J Railroad said:


> There are a couple corners of the room that will be very difficult to reach. You might consider rounding those corners in toward the layout to support scenery as well as easy of access.


It's hard to see because of the reversed writing, but the two ovals in the upper left and lower right are pop-up access holes.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

One of the advantages of modeling things before cutting wood is that we can make sure people will fit. No problem getting in the middle of the "shoe" cut-out. But, as noted by several, it will hard to reach two the corners. (working on that)


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*Access cutouts*

Access cuts added as per the plan.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

Most of the layout has been transferred to Rail Modeller Pro. Only pending item is the elevation of the tracks.
Fun fun fun !

Overall length is 1782"

001	SL-E86	Bogenweiche rechts (7.4/19.0° R=1981/762) right curved turnou	Peco	$0.00	3
002	SL-E92	Weiche links (L=185mm 12° R=610mm) left turnout (small)	Peco	$0.00	4
003	SL-E91	Weiche rechts (L=185mm 12° R=610mm) right turnout (small)	Peco	$0.00	9
004	SL-E87	Bogenweiche links (7.4/19.0° R=1981/762) left curved turnout	Peco	$0.00	1
005	513	22In. Radius	Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc.	$0.00	48
006	823	3In. Straight (4 pcs./pkg.)	Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc.	$0.00	2
007	168	36" Super-Flex Track	Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc.	$0.00	62
008	836	Full section 22"	Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc.	$0.00	15
009	577	90° Crossing	Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc.	$0.00	1


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

A very complete layout...nice continuous running and lots of switching
capability. My one suggestion is to lengthen the tails on the
spur switchbacks so you can fit more than a loco on them. There
appears to be plenty of room to do so.

Don


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

All drawings complete for the bench and I start cutting wood... guess what?
I designed everything using 2x1 lumber and I bough 2x3/4 lumber...

Grrr....

Back to the drawing board (CAD)


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

ripacheco said:


> All drawings complete for the bench and I start cutting wood... guess what?
> I designed everything using 2x1 lumber and I bough 2x3/4 lumber...
> 
> Grrr....
> ...


You are aware that dimensional lumber is a "nominal" dimension, after rough sawing and before planing, right? 

It is fairly uncommon to find a board that actually measures 1x2. For myself, I buy 1x4 lumber (actually 0.75 x 3.75) and rip it down the middle on a table saw. After accounting for kerf, my 1x2 is more like 1.6" wide.

That said, this isn't aerospace engineering. You don't need to be that precise with your dimensions. Just adjust for that 1/2" difference when you make your cuts -- it's better to take a measurement as you build rather than just saw lumber off of plans anyway.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

ripacheco said:


> Most of the layout has been transferred to Rail Modeller Pro. Only pending item is the elevation of the tracks.
> Fun fun fun !
> 
> Overall length is 1782"
> ...


You could save some money by doing the whole thing in flex track rather than using sectional pieces on the curves. Fasttracks (and probably other folks) makes templates to help you lay flex track curves at precise radii.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> You are aware that dimensional lumber is a "nominal" dimension, after rough sawing and before planing, right?
> 
> It is fairly uncommon to find a board that actually measures 1x2. For myself, I buy 1x4 lumber (actually 0.75 x 3.75) and rip it down the middle on a table saw. After accounting for kerf, my 1x2 is more like 1.6" wide.
> 
> That said, this isn't aerospace engineering. You don't need to be that precise with your dimensions. Just adjust for that 1/2" difference when you make your cuts -- it's better to take a measurement as you build rather than just saw lumber off of plans anyway.


Yes. I had forgotten that little "dimensional-fact" that I'm sure my shop teacher told us about.

I looked at my CAD drawings and its been simple to adjust things. Complication was because i was using the 2x1 with the long side vertically... son the width of the board threw my drawings off...


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> You could save some money by doing the whole thing in flex track rather than using sectional pieces on the curves. Fasttracks (and probably other folks) makes templates to help you lay flex track curves at precise radii.


Agree.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

ripacheco said:


> Yes. I had forgotten that little "dimensional-fact" that I'm sure my shop teacher told us about.
> 
> I looked at my CAD drawings and its been simple to adjust things. Complication was because i was using the 2x1 with the long side vertically... son the width of the board threw my drawings off...


At least you had shop class. Woodworking, metalworking, and Power Mechanics (small engines) were required when I was in HS.

Not so for my kids. Which I find rather disappointing. Necessary life skills, in my opinion.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*First section of bench complete*

This a low weight bench intended to hold only the weight of the model. Kids are warned not to be climbing on it (kids of all ages) 
LOL

This bench is sectional ... each section never to be disassembled. Idea is to put together all layout using these. If anything is expanded or modified the sections are changed and/or moved.

Drawing is easy. But there comes a time when you have to get the darn thing out of the computer.

Computer model.









All lumber is 1x2 (0.75" x 1.75")









Countersink tool. All screws have pilot holes.
All joints have screw and glue! (can't understand why people leave the glue out...)









Miter-box (mitre-box) training. Sorry kiddo. No chop saws for 8 year olds...









Finished and waiting for glue to dry.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

That last picture is about as exciting as watching paint dry.... :laugh:


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*2 sections of 7 complete*

Two more sections of the layout built. Wife having problems visualizing what we doing so we took this picture.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Looks like your son is in the pillory or something....

Seriously, it looks like some of the legs are not vertical. Hopefully that is just distortion from the camera lens.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

CTValleyRR said:


> At least you had shop class. Woodworking, metalworking, and Power Mechanics (small engines) were required when I was in HS.
> 
> Not so for my kids. Which I find rather disappointing. Necessary life skills, in my opinion.


It's sad isn't it? I had to pay a 300$ fee to take wood shop in my school. No metal or auto shop anymore...


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Looks like your son is in the pillory or something....
> 
> Seriously, it looks like some of the legs are not vertical. Hopefully that is just distortion from the camera lens.


Yes... the iPhone has a wide-angle lens that has severe distortion.
Normally you cannot tell because the software on the iPhone compensates for things that are "organic" but straight lines give it away...

if you look at the silver case on the background (next to the white airplane on the floor) you can see the distortion on that case too.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*4/7 sections complete*

More than 1/2 of the bench done!
Light weight bench, not meant to sit or stand on it but to hold the train layout.


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## RH1 (Jan 4, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Not so for my kids. Which I find rather disappointing. Necessary life skills, in my opinion.


What I learned in school was often sorely lacking, or downright incorrect. Fortunately, I had a father who taught me otherwise. Actually, he still does. And shows my kids how to do things properly as well.


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## RH1 (Jan 4, 2016)

ripacheco said:


> More than 1/2 of the bench done!
> Light weight bench, not meant to sit or stand on it but to hold the train layout.


Looks good. Much of the benchwork I've seen for model trains looks like it was built for holding real trains. Or a car, or something. Other than the fasteners...


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## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

RH1 said:


> What I learned in school was often sorely lacking, or downright incorrect. Fortunately, I had a father who taught me otherwise. Actually, he still does. And shows my kids how to do things properly as well.


My proudest moment, watching my son create (carve a 12x12 beam with chainsaw) and replace a rotten log in the side of a log home , and when asked where he learned that? He said "from you Pops!" Still puts tears in my eye's! It's the simplest things in life that mean the most


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## RH1 (Jan 4, 2016)

gator do 65 said:


> My proudest moment, watching my son create (carve a 12x12 beam with chainsaw) and replace a rotten log in the side of a log home , and when asked where he learned that? He said "from you Pops!" Still puts tears in my eye's! It's the simplest things in life that mean the most


Yup. I've done that... Carve the log I mean. But it was for the base of a new garage my dad was building when I was a kid. Not many kids around now who will ever touch a chainsaw...

My proudest moments are when I see my kids doing things I'm good at (and make a living doing) - and they are better than me. Then again they are better than me at almost everything...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

RH1 said:


> Yup. I've done that... Carve the log I mean. But it was for the base of a new garage my dad was building when I was a kid. Not many kids around now who will ever touch a chainsaw...
> 
> My proudest moments are when I see my kids doing things I'm good at (and make a living doing) - and they are better than me. Then again they are better than me at almost everything...


I have something of a problem with the Boy Scouts' policy on the use of power tools. When I teach merit badges, yes, I show the boys the old fashioned way. Then I teach them how to use power tools. Otherwise, they may not learn it.

Sure, you can use a hand saw, hammer, and drill to make a simple birdhouse, but who is going to make a wine rack, cabinet, gun rack, etc. using hand tools? OK, I do know a guy who still builds beam and post buildings using nothing but hand (and in some cases, antique) tools, but that's not common.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

I am involved with the Boy Scouts in my model airplane club. Sometimes is hard to convince the scout masters to diverge from "what they've done before". You cannot imagine how hard is it to convince them to bring the kids over to the field so they can fly remote control model airplanes for free.
I was so glad to see a post online of a model railroad event organized by a scout troop !
So ... some people get it done.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*Making progress*

Advancing!
All sections complete.
Ply installed in all sections but one.
Built one section backwards due to my left handed syndrome (was forced to use right hand as a kid)
Was able t fix it though.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

Looking really good man! Cant wait to see some rails on it!


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*Making room for the layout*

Moving our tables to their final location.
Thought it be easy to put a 10x8 layout in a two car garage.


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

RH1 said:


> Looks good. Much of the benchwork I've seen for model trains looks like it was built for holding real trains. Or a car, or something. Other than the fasteners...


It was much discussed when I was building mine and I decided to go a little on the overbuild side just because I could and being able to walk around on it and or lean on it with no worries is a good way to go, you never know when it may be needed to get up on it for any number of reasons. Extra sturdy construction also helps keep accidental "hip-bumps" and stray feet kicking the legs of the layout from becoming disasters! I can literally KICK my table when trains are running and they do not go flying all over the layout and or floor! I have tap-conned the legs to the floor where angled legs were not able to be used and the frame is secured to the wall joists. You could dance on this thing!

I am having trouble posting pictures, this link at the top of the window does not let me point and ckick em out of my craptop and onto the page. url? wtf? I'm a computer ignoramus!


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2016)

Chip said:


> I am having trouble posting pictures, this link at the top of the window does not let me point and ckick em out of my craptop and onto the page. url? wtf? I'm a computer ignoramus!


Chip, when you post use the "Go Advanced" tab at the bottom. This opens up a reply box with more options. Under the reply box there is another box "Additional Options". In that the second box says "Attach Files" and in that is a "Manage Attachments" button. It will open another page so you can add pictures. It sounds confusing but it's not so bad when you actually do it. Once you click the "Manage Attachments" tab it's pretty easy.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

*From CAD to real world*

Transferring my computer-generated track layout to the plywood is proving to me more difficult than I thought. The CAD program didn't print the center of the 22", 33" radius used... having to use some old fashioned "find the center of a circle" technique...
Maybe i should just glue the paper tracks to the plywood and cut it using it as a guide (we do that on model airplanes)_


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

What I did for my layout was to go to Office Depot and get a pack of carbon copy paper for a few bucks. (Remember that stuff from the "olden days"?) I then put several sheets of the stuff spread out between my template and the plywood. I then used an old dull pizza cutter and rolled it along all the lines I wanted transferred. Worked really well for me.

Mark


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I would just glue the paper down.


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## ripacheco (Jan 16, 2016)

Mark VerMurlen said:


> What I did for my layout was to go to Office Depot and get a pack of carbon copy paper for a few bucks. (Remember that stuff from the "olden days"?) I then put several sheets of the stuff spread out between my template and the plywood. I then used an old dull pizza cutter and rolled it along all the lines I wanted transferred. Worked really well for me.
> 
> Mark


oh yea they still have carbon-paper... i do remember that from typing class back in the 80s LOL


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## HO LOVER (Nov 25, 2007)

Any Updates? Looks nice so far.


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