# what is best fake water product for rivers and lake



## piperman (Jan 17, 2015)

I want to model rushing streams on my layout. Most of the info I find online is for flat water.
What will give me the best effect for a mountain stream running around rocks etc. at approx. 30 degrees slope? I don't want the fake water all to run to the bottom.

Also for a lake approx. 4 square foot in area. What would you recommend? I like the look of Envirotex but never worked with it.

I look forward to your experience.

Regards
Piperman


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

No experience with rushing water (yet) but for the lake, I had a bad experience With WS water. So I would avoid that, unless you can find information that shows they have reformulated it. Seems like others voiced some displeasure with it too. 
The issue was bubbles forming on the surface, long after the product had been applied and was completely dry.
Of course in a way, all the bubbles kind of make my rivers look like they are rushing now


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

*Water*

i've used envirotex and modpodge on several layouts. like en/tex best.
for this running water i kept pulling up stream as it set up. gave a white foam and textured look. but u do have to stay with it.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Nice job on the waterfalls. So you kept pulling it back up to give it a nice flowing down look. Sounds tricky.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

I had really good luck with Magic Water. It's VERY easy to work with.
My lake and river are over 4 years old and they're still clear with no "yellowing" effect whatsoever.
Bob


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Rushing Waters River Rapids Representations.*

I do not know. What is the best product to use?
Rather, I'd say, what is the most effective technique to use to represent river rapids?
I've come to the conclusion, It's "best' to obtain a picture That you think is wright,
and copy that using products that are compatible with each other.So hopefully, 
there is no unwanted reaction between the materials used.
"Enviro-tex" is a two part epoxy that cures very hard producing a level flat surface.So clear 
you can see the bottom. In this instance a clear mat medium placed in very thin layers and stippled with a brush( produces ripples on water effect). River rapids is an artistic problem for model railroaders. A laptop PC with internet axis will help in the picture reference
area. An airbrush most likely will help in applying paint. I think the paint used should be of
enamel type properties. After the river color is achieved a stippling effect with artist matt
medium(clear and glossy when cured(dried). Found at Michaels craft stores.
So, you see it will take a lot of experimentation before your truly satisfied with the end
result. The big thing is to use combatable materials in the wright sequence!
>Enamel paint down first.Modge podge on top. stippled? Good luck!


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

*riffles*



MtRR75 said:


> Nice job on the waterfalls. So you kept pulling it back up to give it a nice flowing down look. Sounds tricky.


yeah, it could easy get away from you. i kept sections of the creek level, each section higher than the other. keeping the discharging end with a high lip. so each section is basicly a seperate pond, then, pull water up from lower to higher.

it turned out decent looking.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I don't know about "best" -- it's a term I dislike for its implication of superiority in all things.

My personal product of choice for rapids and fast moving, choppy water (of even wave effects) is acrylic gloss gel, which is available at any art or crafts store. Even Woodland Scenics Water Effects is the same stuff, but it's more expensive. This stuff is the consistency of paste, and stays where you put it. It goes on cloudy but dries clear. I put down a fairly thick layer (up to 1/4" will dry just fine) to get the basic shape I'm after. When it's dry, use white acrylic paint to get the foamy effects (you can mix a tiny dollop of blue, green or brown paint if you wish to tint the foam), then put a final, thin layer of the gel over it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

DAP crystal clear calking worked nice for my waterfall, said *not to yellow*.

It worked nice for around 6 months, then as you see it yellowed! :smilie_daumenneg:

Maybe from the dust in the dungeon?
I never did finish the lower falls yet, trying to decide what to do.
The DAP crystal clear calking is not cheap either!:thumbsdown:


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

I had no problwm with WS products. I of coure took my time and didn't rush anything. I had one little bubble come up. It was actually my fisrt time drealing with it so not sure if it was lack or experience or that the tempature in the room got to hot. I did however love there Water Effects. It worked great for rapides. It come out thick and you shape it with a brush to get the desired effect.


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## piperman (Jan 17, 2015)

CTValleyRR
Thanks for your great informative answer.
In looking into Acrylic gloss gels and there seems to be multiple types.
What Brand and type do you use and do you use the same type for your final coat or do you use a thinner type?

I also plan on using Acrylic gloss medium for my lake. Any suggestion on Brand and type? 

Thanks again
Piperman


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I use whatever I can get cheapest when the time comes to buy more. I have Liquitex at the moment, I have used Modgepodge and Vallejos in the past.

yes, I use the same gloss gel for the top coat. I have used Liquitex gloss medium and Modgepodge gloss for other water. You tend to get more air bubbles with these products, and the have a tendency to shrink as they dry, but I've achieved good results with both. They key (with any product, really) is to use multiple thin pours rather than one thick one.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

That was probably my problem, I poured about and 1" of it and let it set. I also noticed pouring slowyley helps you get the "water" where you want it.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Yikes!!!! You never want to use that much of any product. You actually simulate depth by painting the bottom (black or very dark green / blue in the center, light tans and grays nearer the banks). Add whatever bottom detail you need or want (shallow areas only), then pour your water. 1/4" deep is probably the thickest you would ever want it. All you're really trying to do with the water product is get a glossy, translucent surface. Paint does the rest.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

I actually watched a video on Youtube. There was a link to it in another post. He uses ModPodge and it looks very realitic. Im gonna ditch the WS and try this. His voice bores me to dead but very good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgWt137zpkQ&list=FLWTONEORdaVyq66hTcwjhqA&index=1


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Water materials*

Piperman;

Almost anything can be used as a bottom for a lake or river. Plaster is the most common choice among modelers. After making the bottom, paint it your favorite "water" color, black at the "deeper" center fading to brown, "shallows" at the edges. Add any rocks, branches, trash, Etc. Then use epoxy, varnish, liquid plastic or anything very shiny; to make the "water" look "wet".

Here's some photos of water on my layout made with this technique.

Traction Fan


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## Mr. SP (Jan 7, 2015)

*Water*

No experience with flowing water but for the water on my railroad I used a resin product from Enviro-Tex 
It's a two part product that has to be mixed. Kind of like Epoxy It takes overnight for Enviro-Tex resin to set up.
Be sure to paint the river/lake bottom and add any "Stuff" that you want on the bottom before adding the "water"


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

Earlier I replied with an answer of mat medium. I meant gloss medium. the trouble I've
encountered. What color to paint a river bottom with rapids? That is way different than a lake and or pond. I said earlier to find a suitable picture and copy that. I'm still looking for that picture. I'm trying to depict a fairly deep narrow river gorge. Can anyone here,
help me with a link ? Thank you in advance!
Regard's tr1


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

tr1 said:


> Earlier I replied with an answer of mat medium. I meant gloss medium. the trouble I've
> encountered. What color to paint a river bottom with rapids? That is way different than a lake and or pond. I said earlier to find a suitable picture and copy that. I'm still looking for that picture. I'm trying to depict a fairly deep narrow river gorge. Can anyone here,
> help me with a link ? Thank you in advance!
> Regard's tr1


You're trying to find the one right answer for a world in which nature provides an infinite variety. I have seen sandy, black, rusty, dark green, light green, turquiose, light and dark blue, brown... and various shades of all of them.

If you're modeling a specific place, use Google images to find a picture, or Google Earth for overhead imagery and duplicate the colors as best you can.

If not, use the same tools to find one you like the look of and do that. The layout police is not going to come haul you away because you used the wrong color.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Looking for a link for sky blue color waters. & rapids waterrushing*

wright now, I'm trying to find a light blue in color. I've seen this before. I would like to reference that color, reflecting the sky color, maybe some greens involved too. With the angle of the sun above, time of day and the altitude of the camera. Theses variables all
have a factor in the color of the water.
regard's,tr1 thank you


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

tr1 said:


> wright now, I'm trying to find a light blue in color. I've seen this before. I would like to reference that color, reflecting the sky color, maybe some greens involved too. With the angle of the sun above, time of day and the altitude of the camera. Theses variables all have a factor in the color of the water.
> regard's,tr1 thank you


All very true, along with the cloudiness of the sky as well. Go to Yahoo. (I like Yahoo better than Google for image searches because you get larger thumbnails.) Type in just "lake" in the search box, then click on images, and you will get lots of lakes with different shades of blue, green and gray (if the sky is overcast.) I even saw a red lake -- due to the sunset sky color.

If you type in "lake beach" you will get more shoreline pictures where you can see how the colors change with depth. As you have already noted, the altitude of the view makes a big difference. Looking straight down at water makes reduces the blue color. Most photos are taken from the shoreline, and the low angle increases the blue color. You will have to decide if you want your layout to look more realistic from above or have more of the low-angle appearance with respect to water.

Water is one of the most difficult things to get to look natural. Look at paintings done by professional artists. They struggle to get realistic water, too.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MtRR provides some valuable insight. If you look at overhead imagery of the Connecticut river, for example, you will see that it looks very dark green-gray, almost uniformly, with a very thin border of light brown. If you take a picture from the shore, you see mostly reflection of the sky in the water.

For most of us, we are looking down on our water features more so than looking across them, so the overhead imagery is more appropriate (glossy water products actually WILL mimic real water and reflect a backdrop sky, if present). As with everything else in life, you will get better with practice. I personally re-did my water 4 times before I was happy with it.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Yahoo has excellant pictures for referance.*

MtRR75,Thanks so much for the link, Yahoo has some very excellent pictures of
inspirational images to use for reference in depiction of rushing waters along the shoreline. It's nice to have a picture for reference when depicting the actual subject.
This greatly helps for the plausibility in a natural scene. I typed some thing like
"canyon river shoreline scene" Regard's,tr1


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## Pauly H (Dec 31, 2020)

For rushing water (my case, a waterfall) I used LEXEL silicone. Its printable and pretty easy shape into water.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Some recommend products like the silicone above, but suggest a paintable kind...

Because they want to touch the wave tops with a little bit of white paint.


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## Pauly H (Dec 31, 2020)

Severn said:


> Some recommend products like the silicone above, but suggest a paintable kind...
> 
> Because they want to touch the wave tops with a little bit of white paint.


Yes. I typo'd paintable. It auto corrected to printable. Good catch Severn


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## beepjuice (Sep 17, 2014)

This guy is clever
Only 5 years late but still clever! 😊


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