# Brown, gray or black tie?



## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

What is the significance of the different color ties? They all seem to be interchangeable. Thanks; Don


----------



## alman (Oct 22, 2012)

Don Trinko said:


> What is the significance of the different color ties? They all seem to be interchangeable. Thanks; Don


I read that quick, and what came to my mind is WHITE TIE AND TAILS ! :laugh:

I thought I was on the FORMAL FORUM ! :laugh::laugh:


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Most of the time,
Brown tie is for O/27 gauge tube track.
Black tie is for O rail.
Gray tie? I am not sure.
I have seen some I believe they are for O tube rail? Could be for O/27 though? Someone verify that please.

As for the actual size of the tie themselves I never compared the two (measured them), but I think you will find that the black is a little higher in height.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Are we talking about 027 track? I assume so because to my knowledge O track always had black ties. O27 track had black ties with two holes until around 1950 when the ties went to a single hole. Around 1960 the grey/silver tie was introduced. These were of the poorest quality and distort and bend out of shape easily. In the MPC era the nicest looking brown woodgrain tie was introduced. There is little difference value wise between the tie types. Original track circa 1960 sealed to a blister pack is the only track that has any collectors value.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

areizman said:


> Are we talking about 027 track? I assume so because to my knowledge O track always had black ties. O27 track had black ties with two holes until around 1950 when the ties went to a single hole. Around 1960 the grey/silver tie was introduced. These were of the poorest quality and distort and bend out of shape easily. In the MPC era the nicest looking brown woodgrain tie was introduced. There is little difference value wise between the tie types. Original track circa 1960 sealed to a blister pack is the only track that has any collectors value.



But wouldn't the black ties on O/27 be a different size of the O track ties, as O sits higher?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, I have some O-31 track with gray ties. When I generate the energy, I'll look and see if they're Lionel branded. I've seen O27 in brown, black and gray, I'm pretty sure the black at least was not Lionel.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, I have some O-31 track with gray ties. When I generate the energy, I'll look and see if they're Lionel branded. I've seen O27 in brown, black and gray, I'm pretty sure the black at least was not Lionel.


All true O track has black ties? What do you mean?

Do you mean O/27 never had black ties? Now that ARZ mentioned it they did have black O/27 for a while.

No power yet!?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Gee Ed, I guess I have "untrue" O-31 track with the gray ties. 

As far as black O-27, there may be some Lionel in there as well, but I think a lot of it was Marx. I can't really check the O27 stuff, I sold all of that some time back.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Gee Ed, I guess I have "untrue" O-31 track with the gray ties.
> 
> As far as black O-27, there may be some Lionel in there as well, but I think a lot of it was Marx. I can't really check the O27 stuff, I sold all of that some time back.



When I say "true" O, I am making a distinction of O/27 from O.

This is what confused me in your statement, "I'm pretty sure the black at least was not Lionel." What do you mean?? Lionel had black ties???


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ed, I'm speaking of my personal experience, not the whole universe of existing track. I have personally seen all three colors (maybe more silver than gray) in both types of track. I don't recall if any of the O-27 black stuff was Lionel branded, and I'm pretty that the O-27 gray ties were not Lionel.

I have seen brown, black, and gray O-31 track. Again, I'm not sure that the "off" colors were Lionel brand, only that they were compatible track. Since I still have all the O-31, if I decide it's worth it, I can actually check.


----------



## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

Don Trinko said:


> What is the significance of the different color ties? They all seem to be interchangeable. Thanks; Don


They probably are interchangeable. I have black, brown, gray (stamped Lionel), and even fake wood grain ties all on O-27 track.


----------



## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I use O-27 style track on my layout [I'm old fashioned] that was made between 1946 and 2006 by Lionel,williams and K-Line.All have brown ties.I do not have examples of other brands and have not seen other colors.I am not saying other colors do not exist,only that I have not seen them.


----------



## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

I have some older O-27 (made 1952) with black ties and MPC era with brown ties. I was unaware of the gray ties. Learned something new.

Carl


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Handyandy said:


> They probably are interchangeable. I have black, brown, gray (stamped Lionel), and even fake wood grain ties all on O-27 track.


I forgot the fake wood grain ones, I had some of those too.  I don't recall them being stamped Lionel, I thought those were 3rd party manufacture.


----------



## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks; Great information. Don


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

It can get confusing but there are two types of tubular track types, O and O27. As far as Lionel O track goes I do not recall having ever seen any tie color other than black. O27 is another matter. All Lionel O27 track was produced with black ties up to around 1960 when they switched to a cheaper grey tie. Later MPC went to the woodgrain tie. O track has been made by other besides Lionel and it's very possible there are variations.

I'm not saying O27 and O ties are interchangeable, I'm only talking about color. Does someone have a Lionel O track section with a tie color other than black?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have some O (not O27) track with silver ties (maybe considered gray), I don't think it's labeled Lionel, though I'd have to search for it in the boxes to be sure.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Lionel O-27 was originally black ties. Marx was black ties. I don't know when the ties were changed to silver and brown (woodgrain).


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Lionel O-27 was originally black ties. Marx was black ties. I don't know when the ties were changed to silver and brown (woodgrain).


All my O/27 is brown tie (tan?) no wood grain, just brown.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Most of my O27 is black. Only the newer stuff is brown. The plated ties are made by Marx. I have not seen a Lionel one. Production has changed so much that nothing would surprise me.


----------



## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Doyles book states the O-27 cross ties came in black,grey and brown.
I have only seen brown.I WILL watch for the others.


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I think modern era Lionel O27 has Brown ties now. The woodgrain may have been exclusive to the MPC era.


----------

