# What is needed for first DCC setup?



## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

Morning all. I am new to all this stuff and purchased a simple Bachmann analog (DC) set for around the Xmas tree this winter and realized that I would like to make a scene one day. This led me to DCC. My thought is a simple layout with a siding but building it with switches and making it modular so I can maybe add on more sections down the road.

I have read up on JMRI and I understand the premise of what it and the other modules provide. But what hardware is needed to connect JMRI to the layout/train? Can someone give me a simple list or suggestions? What I know is that I need:


A computer and USB-out with JMRI installed
A DCC locomotive/Engine
Some sort of device that bridges the computer to the track (digitrax or SPROG II USB????)???? Here is where I am confused and it appears there are a lot of options.

The goal is a 6x4 or 8'x5' layout with siding and some simple lighting. Two trains on it. Scenery. And on the ends some unused switches that can later be connected to other layouts for expansion.

Final question. Can DC be used at all with DCC or alongside it?

Thanks.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

To answer your last question first, NO. You cannot have DCC and DC connected to the same track at the same time with both in operation.

JMRI is not needed for DCC. It is another method of DCC control but is not necessary for DCC operation.

All you need is a basic DCC system from MRC, NCE, Digitrax, or the like. You can run multiple trains on the same or different tracks. You can also independently control many trains with only one system.


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## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> To answer your last question first, NO. You cannot have DCC and DC connected to the same track at the same time with both in operation.
> 
> JMRI is not needed for DCC. It is another method of DCC control but is not necessary for DCC operation.
> 
> All you need is a basic DCC system from MRC, NCE, Digitrax, or the like. You can run multiple trains on the same or different tracks. You can also independently control many trains with only one system.


Thank you


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Look at Digitrax EVOX starter systems Digitrax EVOX Evolution Advanced Starter Set Replaces EVO (Scale = ALL) Part # 245-EVOX. It has the USB port to connect to a computer and allow you to use JMRI decoder pro to assist in changing the locomotive decoder characteristics along with a really nice throttle that you can easily control 2 locomotives with. You can grow with this unit to very large layouts. You will have to read the manuals and take some time to learn things.


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## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

Lemonhawk said:


> Look at Digitrax EVOX starter systems Digitrax EVOX Evolution Advanced Starter Set Replaces EVO (Scale = ALL) Part # 245-EVOX. It has the USB port to connect to a computer and allow you to use JMRI decoder pro to assist in changing the locomotive decoder characteristics along with a really nice throttle that you can easily control 2 locomotives with. You can grow with this unit to very large layouts. You will have to read the manuals and take some time to learn things.


Thank you Lemonhawk. That's a big help.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Jimd0586 said:


> Morning all. I am new to all this stuff and purchased a simple Bachmann analog (DC) set for around the Xmas tree this winter and realized that I would like to make a scene one day. This led me to DCC. My thought is a simple layout with a siding but building it with switches and making it modular so I can maybe add on more sections down the road.
> 
> I have read up on JMRI and I understand the premise of what it and the other modules provide. But what hardware is needed to connect JMRI to the layout/train? Can someone give me a simple list or suggestions? What I know is that I need:
> 
> ...


Jimd0586;

The others have answered your DCC question. I noticed one other thing in your initial post though. You mentioned that you had, "purchased a simple Bachmann analog (DC) set. Later on, you mentioned, "a simple layout with a siding but building it with switches and making it modular, so I can maybe add on more sections down the road." Still later you mention "And on the ends some unused switches that can later be connected to other layouts for expansion."

Here's the potential problem.
I assume that the Bachmann train set you bought came with some Bachmann EZ-Track included. That's OK, meaning the actual track pieces, but the Bachmann EZ-Track switches *  are the very worst on the market. They have a long history of causing derailments, and just plain breaking down. Sometimes they are inoperative right out of the box, and sometimes they fail within a few days of being installed on a layout.

If you like the "roadbed" type of track with the gray plastic "ballast" piece attached to the bottom, I suggest using Kato Unitrack, which is both excellent track, and has very reliable Kato turnouts made to fit that track. The Bachmann & Kato, tracks do not simply snap together with each other, or with non-roadbed sectional, or flex, track. However they can be easily adapted to mate with other track. So, I'm not suggesting that you throw your Bachmann track away, just that you don't buy the Bachmann turnouts and set off on the path to frustration and disappointment. If you later decide to use flex track, or sectional track, then you will have other good turnout brand options.

The files attached are some that I wrote for new model railroaders planning their first layout. Look through them if you wish.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂

* We call them "turnouts" to distinguish between track switches & electrical switches.


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## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Jimd0586;
> 
> The others have answered your DCC question. I noticed one other thing in your initial post though. You mentioned that you had, "purchased a simple Bachmann analog (DC) set. Later on, you mentioned, "a simple layout with a siding but building it with switches and making it modular, so I can maybe add on more sections down the road." Still later you mention "And on the ends some unused switches that can later be connected to other layouts for expansion."
> 
> ...


Traction Fan,

Thank you! I purchased online the RailChief set and just today realized it doesn't have the ability to really be expanded upon. So I cancelled the order... we will see if that happens in time. So I am basically starting over and now looking for a beginner DCC set. So your advice is appreciated. HO is the scale I want to pursue. Suggestions?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I agree with Traction Fan. Bachman EZ-Track is fine, except for their turnouts. And unfortunately, you really can't simply use other manufacturers' turnouts because they won't connect to your track.

The good news is that your Bachman train itself will work on any manufacturer's track, and there are a few options for much better overall track, including Atlas, Peco and Kato to name a few. Although... the standard Atlas turnouts aren't much better than Bachman. But you can combine Atlas track with Peco Turnouts, which is what I'm doing.

I just got back into the hobby after a 25 years. The Bachman EZ-track still works. Some of the pieces have bowed a bit, but virtually every piece of the track was still usable, even after being in a box in my basement for 25 years. The turnouts, on the other hand, never did work worth a darn.

The Bachman EZ-track was sufficient for me to play around long enough to figure out that I really wanted a bigger layout. So I opted to buy a NCE Power Cab starter kit, and a new DCC ready locomotive.

"DCC Ready" simply means that a drop-in DCC decoder can fit into the locomotive... but the locomotive was DC only when I bought it. Interesting, that it is cheaper to buy a DCC ready locomotive and a drop-in decoder than it is to buy a "DCC Equipped" locomotive.

I bought a Kato SD70ACe that was DC ready for $100. The DCC equipped version is $170, but a drop-in digitax decoder is only $30. The difference is mostly related to sound. I don't have any desire for sound coming out of my locomotive. In order to get sound and DCC, I would have had to buy a more expensive DCC decoder which also can be complicated to install because there may not be enough space inside the locomotive to squeeze in a speaker as well.

So... if you want sound, your simplest bet is to buy a locomotive that is DCC and Sound equipped.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Jim

You have decided wisely to cancel your order for the
Bachmann train set. Bachmann locos and cars are
as good as any, but off the shelf train sets are not
desirable for reasons our guys have posted.

I would suggest that you review the locos and cars
advertised on Ebay and the various 'on line' dealers.
If you have a hobby shop within driving range that would
be even better.

Decide on a loco that you like...make sure it says
DCC ON BOARD...avoid locos labelled: DC and DCC 'READY'.
The brand won't matter much, today's locos are
all generally dependable. As a starter, select a diesel loco with 4 wheel
trucks, or a small steamer.
Then select a few cars...not many for a Christmas
train. Be sure that the couplers are the same...Knuckle
couplers like used on real trains
are the best... You'll also need a DCC Control System.
The most popular are Digitrax, NEC, MRC and
Bachmann. If you are not planning to set up
a large hobby layout, the Bachmann EZ would
be the most economical and easiest to use.
However, if you plan an ultimate large layout,
go with Digidtrax, NEC or MRC.

Then buy SECTIONAL track that will fit around
your tree (curved and straight pieces)...avoid track on a roadbed...it is not
compatible with quality turnouts. 
Mount the track, using light dabs of adhesive,
on a sheet of plywood that is at least 4 feet square
anticipating the tree sitting in the middle.

After Christmas, if you decide to build a more
extensive layout with the above, you would need
only add more track and turnouts on a larger
board or boards. At that point you would want
to use Flex track 3 foot sections.

Don


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## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

DonR said:


> Jim
> 
> You have decided wisely to cancel your order for the
> Bachmann train set. Bachmann locos and cars are
> ...


Thank you Don! Everyone here is a big help!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with what the others have said so far regarding locos and cars -- pretty much anything will work; just about everybody makes quality stuff nowadays, but no one is immune from the occasional dog. You don't NEED to use flex track on a bigger layout, but it is helpful, both in that you only have to buy track and turnouts (switches), instead of all the different little pieces, and it frees you from the geometric limitations of sectional track.

DCC systems are the same way. This thread will soon become populated with a bunch of different recommendations for which system to buy, and everyone will think theirs is the best (wait until you get the hard core sales pitch from J.Albert1949 for the Roco / Digikeis systems!), but here's the thing: none of the big players (Digitrax, NCE, MRC) or even some of the minor ones (Lenz, ECoS, Roco / Digikeis) is any better or any worse. It all comes down to individual preference and how you like to operate, what controls feel better in your hands, do you need to look at it to change throttle commands, etc. The best thing to do is try to hit a big train show or dealer where you can actually test-drive them; if not, and you have a club nearby, use what they use, because you will have a ready source of help and advice. Anyone's DCC system can be used with anyone else's decoders, so that's not a problem you have to worry about.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

"...Some sort of device that bridges the computer to the track ..."
You could buy an Arduino clone, and a motor driver add-on, and a 15 VDC power supply..
These connect a PC to the track



http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/DCC/page-1.html


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## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

Dennis461 said:


> "...Some sort of device that bridges the computer to the track ..."
> You could buy an Arduino clone, and a motor driver add-on, and a 15 VDC power supply..
> These connect a PC to the track
> 
> ...


Wow! Thanks!


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## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> I agree with what the others have said so far regarding locos and cars -- pretty much anything will work; just about everybody makes quality stuff nowadays, but no one is immune from the occasional dog. You don't NEED to use flex track on a bigger layout, but it is helpful, both in that you only have to buy track and turnouts (switches), instead of all the different little pieces, and it frees you from the geometric limitations of sectional track.
> 
> DCC systems are the same way. This thread will soon become populated with a bunch of different recommendations for which system to buy, and everyone will think theirs is the best (wait until you get the hard core sales pitch from J.Albert1949 for the Roco / Digikeis systems!), but here's the thing: none of the big players (Digitrax, NCE, MRC) or even some of the minor ones (Lenz, ECoS, Roco / Digikeis) is any better or any worse. It all comes down to individual preference and how you like to operate, what controls feel better in your hands, do you need to look at it to change throttle commands, etc. The best thing to do is try to hit a big train show or dealer where you can actually test-drive them; if not, and you have a club nearby, use what they use, because you will have a ready source of help and advice. Anyone's DCC system can be used with anyone else's decoders, so that's not a problem you have to worry about.


I am starting to get that impression exactly! 

Well, it looks like to just get started with a DCC loco, track, and controller I am in at least $350 for HO scale. And that is probably on the cheap end.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

The very cheap end. Shoot for closer to $400-$425 for all you mentioned depending upon how much track you want.

I had over $700 in before I even bought a locomotive or DCC system. Mine is a medium- small layout. 11x13.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There is also a very good selection of used
locos, DCC systems, cars, and track. Check
our For Sale or Trade forum, as well as Craigslist
and Ebay. For example, I found on Craigslist
a Bachmann DCC system, 2 DCC locos and
a number of cars...all used, of course, but
for only 175.00.

Don


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I built this.









GitHub - DccPlusPlus/BaseStation: DCC++ Base Station for Arduino Uno and Mega


DCC++ Base Station for Arduino Uno and Mega. Contribute to DccPlusPlus/BaseStation development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com






Combined with an old laptop and jmri. And I have a basic but good enough for now DCC system.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Jimd0586 said:


> Traction Fan,
> 
> Thank you! I purchased online the RailChief set and just today realized it doesn't have the ability to really be expanded upon. So I cancelled the order... we will see if that happens in time. So I am basically starting over and now looking for a beginner DCC set. So your advice is appreciated. HO is the scale I want to pursue. Suggestions?


Jimd0586;

If you like roadbed track, then I suggest a Kato starter set, with their "Unitrack" rather than the Bachmann EZ-Track.
As I mentioned, the quality of Kato "turnouts" (track switches) is excellent, as are all Kato products. Kato also sells several expansion track sets that let you add onto your starter layout. They also have a wider selection of curves, crossovers, etc. than Bachmann offers. Kato does sell some DCC equipped locomotives, though most are DC, and would require a DCC decoder to be installed in order to run on a DCC system. The main manufacturers of DCC systems are Digitrax, NCE, and MRC Prodigy. Bachmann makes one called "EZ-command" but its pretty limited. I recommend going with one of the first three, all three are good systems.

You might want to consider not buying a train set at all, but rather individual components, starting with a DCC locomotive, and adding whatever track & rail cars that you want. The files I sent you last time explain this notion, and a whole lot of nice-to-know information for the new model railroader.

If you want to use flex track and cork or foam separate roadbed, (that's how most permanent layouts are built) then you have your choice of track & turnout brands. Atlas, Peco, & Micro Engineering all offer decent flex track. I would stay away from the Atlas "Snap Switch" turnouts though. Until Bachmann squeaked past them on the race to the bottom of the quality barrel, they held the title of world's worst turnout. In HO-scale, Atlas sells a separate line of turnouts called "Custom Line." These are better than the "Snap Switch" line, but not as good as Micro Engineering, Walthers, or Peco. Peco makes what many consider the best turnout on the market. Unlike roadbed track, which attempts to lock you into one brand of track & turnouts (it's possible to adapt it though.) Flex track is compatible from one brand to another. So are the turnout brands I mentioned. 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Jimd0586 said:


> I am starting to get that impression exactly!
> 
> Well, it looks like to just get started with a DCC loco, track, and controller I am in at least $350 for HO scale. And that is probably on the cheap end.


While I agree with @traction fan that the Kato starter sets are the way to go, I think he might have missed that you are looking at HO sets. Kato, being a Japanese company, is mostly N gauge, though they do have HO locomotives, track, and cars also. I was just looking at their web site and did not see any HO sets (though they might have them and I missed seeing them). For HO, I would recommend piecing together a set from their Unitrack and picking the locomotive and rolling stock you like. They do have the advantage of having starter track sets and then some variations/expansion sets that are designed to work together.

I chose N gauge and that is exactly how I started. I picked one of their starter sets that was just the train, then picked a starter track set with some expansions I wanted. I added a couple expansions after that, then started designing a layout and buying the track I needed for it.

As @MichaelE pointed out, I think your price estimate is a little low. I think an HO locomotive that has DCC is going to run you 200, just for that and maybe another 100 if you want sound. A beginner DCC controller is between 150 and 250 and the system @Lemonhawk recommended has a 350 price all on its own (to be honest, I think I would also go with the better system over the beginner command station I bought if I were starting over). Then you would need to add in rolling stock and track.

And I think you will find that this can be almost addictive and you will spend a lot more over the next year or so. Of course, that could be just me but in just under a year, I have bought more trains than will fit on my track at once and a couple where the length makes them unrealistic for my layout (an Amtrak train with too many cars to fit into the station for example). But I like the hobby and am still buying more stuff.


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## 65steam (Dec 18, 2019)

You can enter more cheaply if you find used items. I actually have enjoyed finding gently used locomotives and installing DCC decoders myself.

Another thing you might consider is having sectional track for use surrounding your Christmas tree and using flex track and turnouts for a more permanent layout to use the rest of the year. This might simplify things in the long run.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Jimd0586 said:


> I am starting to get that impression exactly!
> 
> Well, it looks like to just get started with a DCC loco, track, and controller I am in at least $350 for HO scale. And that is probably on the cheap end.


This is not a cheap hobby. Trying to go cheap will usually lead to frustration. There are ways to minimize expenses (and curbing the urge to buy new stuff is chief among them), but you can't make it a cheap hobby. Don't buy more than you need, but buy the best you can afford.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

One thing that may have been mentioned but I missed, if you are buying sectional track, particularly used, make sure it is nickel-silver and not brass or steel.


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## Jimd0586 (Sep 20, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> This is not a cheap hobby. Trying to go cheap will usually lead to frustration. There are ways to minimize expenses (and curbing the urge to buy new stuff is chief among them), but you can't make it a cheap hobby. Don't buy more than you need, but buy the best you can afford.


Ok thanks all. What about DCC systems. I’ve seen a lot on NCE. It looks good. But what is a system that could be connected to signal lights, blocks, and JMRI? Can the NCE pro cab do all that?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Jimd0586 said:


> Ok thanks all. What about DCC systems. I’ve seen a lot on NCE. It looks good. But what is a system that could be connected to signal lights, blocks, and JMRI? Can the NCE pro cab do all that?


Jim;

NCE, Digitrax, and MRC Prodigy, are all good DCC systems. None of them need "blocks" if you're asking about insulated blocks of track that are used on DC layouts. Since individual locomotives can be controlled separately on the same track, blocks would be pointless & unnecessary for controlling multiple trains. That's one of the big advantages of DCC over traditional DC control. 99% of the train control wiring, toggle switches for assigning power to blocks, and yes, even the insulating of track into blocks at all, can be eliminated. Some DCC layouts will have bus wires, and feeder wires, but as far a direct control of trains, that's it for wiring. On a small home layout, even the bus wires and multiple feeders may not be necessary.
However, some DCC layouts do use blocks for signaling purposes, and/or as "power districts." There are commercial circuits called "block occupancy detectors" that can tell when a train is in a given track block. This has obvious application to an operating block signal system. The first thing such a system needs to know is whether there is a train in the next block, or not.
Power districts have the track separated into insulated sections, or blocks, so that a short circuit in one part of the layout won't shut down the whole layout, and it makes it easier to locate the problem.

Both these ideas are primarily used on very large layouts (club size, or at least basement-filling) that have a whole lot of track. There wouldn't be much point in having blocks for signaling, or as power districts, on a typical 4' x 8' layout. That doesn't mean it couldn't be done, just that on a small layout the blocks aren't likely to be much longer than a train. Also on a typical small home layout, you can simply see where the train is by eyeball, no electronics needed.

No DCC system directly controls signal lights by itself. There are devices called "stationary decoders" that interface between the DCC system and the electrical item to be controlled. They receive digital commands just as the decoders in DCC locomotives do. Each decoder, whether locomotive-mounted, or stationary, has a unique digital address, and responds only to commands specifically addressed to it. The output of the stationary decoder is tailored to the device to be controlled. It could be an LED in a trackside signal, a switch machine to set a semaphore, or a turnout, or whatever you want.

As for JMRI, I'm an old analog fart. I don't even know what the letters in "JMRI" stand for, so I'll leave that answer to those who do.

I will add some general words of caution though. From your posts, it seems like you are digitally inclined, and anxious to use some form of computer control for your layout. As long as you understand the technology involved, and enjoy it, that part's fine.
Having spent 40 years fixing electrical stuff for a living, one thing I came up against time after time is this. "The more complicated you make anything, the more often it will break down, and the harder it will be to troubleshoot and fix." This in turn convinced me that it was wise to keep things as simple as possible. Bear that in mind as you go along.

I once had a guy show up at my old club with a tiny layout he had built. It was carpeted, wall-to-wall, with complex trackwork, much of it scratchbuilt. It was a technological masterpiece! This guy's layout had sensors out the Yazoo, and the thing could do all sorts of tricks.
The reason he came to me was to get advice on how to add scenery to his layout. Well I just looked at the spaghetti-bowl he had created, then I looked at him, and scratched my head. There was no room for scenery anywhere on that thing. The best I could come up with was some kind of major junction, where the ground would be covered in track.

The "moral" of this story is, "Keep in mind the overall concept of what you want to create." In his case, he had the track, & control, parts down pat, but had not even considered scenery until it was to late to fit any in.
So what do you want to create Jim? Do you want a demonstration bed for computer control, or something that looks & operates like a real railroad, or both? Just consider what you want to end up with, and keep that in mind.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Jimd0586 said:


> Ok thanks all. What about DCC systems. I’ve seen a lot on NCE. It looks good. But what is a system that could be connected to signal lights, blocks, and JMRI? Can the NCE pro cab do all that?


Yes, any of the big name systems can do all that. As I said back in post 11, there really isn't anything to distinguish the capabilities of the major brands.


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