# New Room = New Layout



## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Well I finally have a room where I can make a permanent layout. So I have come up with this, the only thing it needs is a sliding for the locos on the passenger line.

It's about 1.2m x 4.1m, if I could get it narrower that would also be good.

So any comments will be appriciated.

Cheers


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The bottom left track is not usable. There is no 'tail' for
it's turnout. You could not even get a loco in there.
Why the gap between it and the other? Close it and all
is well.

Don


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Nice plan.The only concern I would have, besides the aforementioned gap, is the yard and stub sidings on the bottom of your picture.

If that side is against a wall you will have some reach issues, especially when the scenery is in place.

What scale?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I just noticed both the blue and the yellow
tracks have what appears to be a turnout
but no track is connected to them. These
are on either side of the benchwork 'cut out'

What are they?

Did you, perhaps, intend a double crossover?

Don


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## bluenavigator (Aug 30, 2015)

DonR said:


> I just noticed both the blue and the yellow
> tracks have what appears to be a turnout
> but no track is connected to them. These
> are on either side of the benchwork 'cut out'
> ...


Actually, they look like two curved tracks overlapped each other. I believe that it was intended to be one track but not using the flexible track to connect them instead of two tracks overlapped.

Question: what would be part of the scenery? It seems to be all tracks and just single building? What about point to point bases for the passenger service?


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi

Sorry I did not close off or trim the tracks, I was trying to get a feel for the layout.

Scale is HO, I'll have to measure the diagonal reach on that, the other thing I thought of was if the yellow line was for passenger service than the Radius Two might be too tight.

There will be walls on three sides, you walk in from the top. So maybe it's all wrong from an access point of view?

Cheers


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Thinking about the access issue I came up with this (excuse the lack of trimming and joining).

The main thing I want to incorporate is to have two controllers (DC at this stage) on for each loop and the ablity to run shunting operations with both contollers.

The only thing is that the freight part will be in a valley surrounded by the passenger line, but then in iron mining your digging holes.

The inclines are steep (4%).

May I should bring the station to the front and drop the two main lines along the long wall and build over the top to reduce the width, but then the access will be an issue.

Hmmm, this is alot more complicated, I need a bigger room


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

regme said:


> Hmmm, this is alot more complicated, I need a bigger room


.

Don't we all...

Try calculating what all that track and all those turnouts will cost. That my help you fit your layout into your space.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Try it with the yellow all upper level, then you can put the grade on the longer blue line and let it connect to all the yards on the lower level. You can further reduce the grade by making the passenger station level (blue and yellow) the same half way elevation and as they leave the yellow goes up and the blue goes down so the yellow can go under the blue at the front. I think that would also allow you to squeeze in the middle and give you a little better access.


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

I've moved a few things round, the longest reach is about 1 metre.

I've dropped the split level with bridges over the instead I've opted for a port, since I have to off load the iron ore somewhere. That way I can still have a split level, get the grades at 3% without crossing any tracks. I have tried to keep the areas furtherest from the edge of the table free of points, thus less chances of derailments.

I have been thinking about how the operations would work. To come out of the port I would have to reverve back onto the main line, but then is it real a deal breaker.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

May I suggest that you move the port to the passenger fiddle yard area,as well as the ore offloading track? That would give you an ore " complex" and a short switching lead as well. The port would be off the edge of your bench work.
Then add another ladder track to the former ore offloading track to accommodate the passenger yard.
Just a thought


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi

I have nailed down my layout, now I have need for clarification regarding the control of my layout. Initially I thought of using one power supply and creating three simple controllers using a potentiometers and a step down component to run the inner, outer loops and sidings. Upon further searching I found I can create blocks where I can wire it up to allow the use of just two controllers and the use of DPDT switches to swap between the controllers.

So if I have this right, in theory I can use one controller for the outer loop swap over to the inner loop just by switching that particular block to that controller, rather than swaping between controllers.

However, how would I isolate parts of the layout using that method.

Or would it be better to to run the outer and sidings with two controllers and set the inner loop to a constant speed and have a train just run around it, since the outer loop and sidings would require more driver input for operations

Just to add I was going to run the inner and outer loops in opposite directions.

Cheers


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Is it too late for you to reconsider using DC? Since you
plan to run more than one train at a time you would
be doing yourself a favor by using a DCC system.
You then would not need any blocks or insulated
joiners. You would not need several DPDT switches
and yards of wiring. You would not need two or
more controllers.

You could have crossovers connecting all of your
tracks and have only one controller and a single
two wire buss to power all of your track drops.

And you would have easy individual control of
each locomotive on your tracks. One DCC controller
can run any number of trains at the same time
each at it's own speed and direction.

Don


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi

I have only put the track down and not started the wiring. At this stage DCC seems like the logical choice, it's just the expence of changing over. By the time I chip all the locos (if they can be chipped) and two controllers I don't think I would get much change for a $1000.

I'll have to do some more reaseach on it. The first criteria would have to be that at least two people can run seperate trains on the layout and or loop if that's possible.

What would be a middle of the range DCC system or brand (loaded question)

Cheers


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When I bought my Lionel Vision Line Big Boy, I didn't get any change from $2000, so that sounds cheap!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You should be able to go DCC for much less than
1,000.00. 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/NCE-...e-524025.htm?gclid=CM-m3MGGnNACFdgNgQod7xUJuw

There are other systems for much less.

Decoders run less than 20.00 each.

You don't need to convert all locos at the
same time.

Use a DPDT switch in your main track buss. One
way it's DCC, the other way it's DC. You can run
both systems, but not at the same time. You would
want to keep your DC only locos on a track that is
capable of being turned off when using DCC.

The advantages of DCC far out pace the cost
factor.

Don


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

DonR said:


> You should be able to go DCC for much less than
> 1,000.00.
> 
> http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/NCE-...e-524025.htm?gclid=CM-m3MGGnNACFdgNgQod7xUJuw
> ...


Thats what I did!

Although i picked the digitrax system instead of NCE. 
From what I have heard the NCE system is much easier to deal with.

Super glad I put in the switch for changing a loop of track to dc OR dcc. I still have like 15-10 DC loco's. now i feel like i don't need to change them.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

santafealltheway said:


> Thats what I did!
> 
> Although i picked the digitrax system instead of NCE.
> From what I have heard the NCE system is much easier to deal with.
> ...


I would recommend that you change them over gradually. Having to change out locos, isolate parking areas, or just not being able to run the loco you want to in conjunction with another will get old.


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Sounds like the way forward, I was looking at getting two controllers and a power booster. I guess I just need to get my head around wiring it all up. So you can run DC from the DCC controller?

Back to the researching


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Some DCC controllers claim to have capability to
run a DC locomotive. However, many of us would
not do that. DCC track is continually powered with
14 volts or so of modified AC. This current can
damage a loco motor if left standing.

The better way is the simple DPDT switch that
sends either DCC from your controller or DC
from a power pack to your track buss. However,
the reverse loop controllers would not work on
DC, and they could possibly be damaged.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

regme said:


> Sounds like the way forward, I was looking at getting two controllers and a power booster. I guess I just need to get my head around wiring it all up. So you can run DC from the DCC controller?
> 
> Back to the researching


No. You wire both controllers up through a DPDT switch (break before make), so that you can feed your rails EITHER from the DC power pack or the DCC command station.

You also don't need to rewire it. The same bus and feeder arrangement for DC will work in DCC. The only difference would come if you have a reversing loop in your design.


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks, no reversing loops. Now to pick a system.

I'm going to run the points seperate to the DCC/DC and use a control panel so it's more interactive.

I was going to have blocks so I can have a more interactive control of stopping trains rather than from the controller itself, but I'm assuming I can also do this via a circuit board to detect and stop the train at certain points.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You can fairly easily stop a train using some sort of
detection device if you are running DC. To do the
same thing with a DCC train you would need some
special devices and a computer hookup. There are
a couple of threads on the Forum that discuss these
systems.

With DCC you can slow and stop any train at any
time using your controller while the other trains
continue on their way. There is no harm to have
a DCC loco stopped or parked on a live DCC track.
While some do 'turn off' the power to loco storage
tracks it is not necessary unless the locos are DC
on a DCC layout.

Don



Don


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

While you can use a DPDT switch to go between DCC and DC there is some risk that you may have a DC loco inadvertently on the track when you switch to DCC and not notice it until you smell ozone. You might consider making one of the loops DC and the other DCC with no interconnection, until you get a decent number of engines with decoders.


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Researching in the middle of the night brings it's own problems, I have swayed towards the NCE Starter System as a step towards DCC, but I also came across Railpro just to make it harder to decided.

I guess I could make the loops DC and the sidings DCC since that's where most of the fun would be.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

regme said:


> Researching in the middle of the night brings it's own problems, I have swayed towards the NCE Starter System as a step towards DCC, but I also came across Railpro just to make it harder to decided.
> 
> I guess I could make the loops DC and the sidings DCC since that's where most of the fun would be.


I think you're asking for trouble. Make the whole layout one or the other. Don't try to mix control methods. You run a huge risk of burning something out if you accidentally cross connect DC and DCC.


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

I guess your right, it's a case of taking the plunge into DCC.

Well here is what it looks like now, I'm still deciding if I should paint the legs and frame white or stain it (it's pine).


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I would not use white. You want a darker color that does not draw the eye away from the layout.

Paint is fine, but if you stain, you'll want to seal the wood with shellac or polyurethane. Expansion and contraction of unsealed wood due to humidity can cause problems.


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi

I have started to think about the control panel before I start to wire things up. It will be A4 in size, maybe. I'm going to keep the point and block control together and use the DCC to operate the trains. I know I could use the DCC to control the stopping and starting of trains, but I would prefer to have a more hands on approach.

I'm not sure how to combine it. This was how I was going to layout the switches for the point control. The block control I found 10mm wide led strip lights that I can change the colour from red to green, it's just bending them into an arc.

Any comments are most welcomed.

Cheers


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

I've re-thought the control panels and started to build the boxes to hold it all together



















Now I'm thinking about my platform, here's a cross section of my platform, the red part is the roof, which is removalable so I can access the LEDs which will run down the length of the plantform. The station is almost a 1.0m long, so I'm thinking that it might be easier to build the roof in sections that way it's not so flimsy.








Now it becomes a construction problem on how to make it look like one complete section while providing access to the LED's should they need replacing.

I was going to use 1mm thick balsa to create the u-beams and round dowels for the columns.

Even while writing this post I see issues with a removable roof, maybe I can light it a different way, have the lights in the platform pointing up towards the roof. That way I pull the lights out from underneath the base board.

Any thoughts are welcomed


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## regme (Oct 23, 2014)

So back on the station, I have had some inspiration from Reading Station and came up with this.










I'm not sure how to finish the station as the red line is the end of the base board. So do I extend the roof section to match the platform on the right or cut it as shown here. I was going to leave it open so you can see inside of the walkway.

Cheers


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