# Adding collector to Postwar truck



## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

I have a postwar 6219 working caboose I want to add a collector to for lighting. I searched for threads on this but didn't find any. Any suggestions on finding the right collector for it's trucks or a replacement truck? Attached is a photo of the rear truck. TIA


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That truck wasn't designed for a roller, and you'll also need axle wipers to pickup the outside rail voltage, that's not provided for either.

I'd probably consider replacing the truck(s) if I wanted to add pickups to that one.


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## WildcatRR (Jul 28, 2013)

*Adding Collector*

It looks like you have the wrong truck on your C & O 6219 work caboose. The truck you have looks like a MPC era truck maybe someone changed it out. Can you post a picture of the front truck and maybe something could be added.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

WildcatRR said:


> It looks like you have the wrong truck on your C & O 6219 work caboose. The truck you have looks like a MPC era truck maybe someone changed it out. Can you post a picture of the front truck and maybe something could be added.


Thanks Wildcat. I thought my parents gave it to me new back in the day. Any help appreciated.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I would guess a 581-10 from Jeff the Train Tender. It is listed in the Lionel manual Greenberg page 664. It is a pick up for a 560 truck. It may be common in 60's postwar or the MPC era.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Look up a 482-3 pick up with roller assembly. It has tabs on the ends that wrap around the axles, you solder a wire to the pick up tab, and do your internal wiring. Here is an example from Olsen's, but you may find a cheaper price from different suppliers.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com//proddetail.htm?sku=482-3

The 6219 that you have does have the correct trucks that came with it originally. The truck assemblies are "Timken AAR trucks", which was standard issue in 1960, painted metal frame, die cast smokestack.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Have you tried that? I have my doubts with the width of the modern wheels. 

I have one without the pickup on my sound of steam tender.



It attaches to the truck with a prong.



The prong goes into two holes.




Another view with the prongs showing.



I do have one on an 9181 caboose.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Thanks to T-Man, he was correct with his original suggestion of the 581-10. Jeff Kane sells them for $6 each, and they are the correct pickup to use on the 6219 trucks. I verified it by looking at the 3512 Fire Car, that uses "Timken AAR trucks" and the pickup assembly listed in the Service Manual is 581-10. Skip the 482-3 link, but that would also work, but more expensive.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Awesome. I ordered the 581-10. Will update this thread when I do the project.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

This is the original un modified C&O 6219:








I got the 580-10 collector and it snaps right onto the truck. 








I glued diffusion material to the windows








After adding soldering a cloth covered wire tail, making a small mount and grounding the LED to the chassis, the light didn't work. Upon careful inspection, the truck side frames are plastic so chassis isn't grounded. 








I hacked a wire ground by wrapping/soldering some solid 24g a wire on the axle and used the pressure of the 580-10 to keep contact.








However, the light flickers badly. I presume it's the ground hack. Here's a video. Any suggestions?
Youtube Video of 6219


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The ground connection is your problem. Although it is working, but flickering, we have to figure out a better grounding option. That is one problem with having plastic Timken trucks, poor ground path!! Gonna need some thoughts for a cure.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

This is the collector I use. It includes the axle wipers for the ground. They're $4.00 at www.Lionel.com


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

I can't tell how that attaches. Does it snap in some how or what?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I can see your trucks are different, by luck the part fits . You need a wiper. The best way is to use the other truck. You need flexible metal strip to touch both axles and a small screw to hold it into the truck. I am surprised the part you ordered does not have one. You can use the metal in a flashlight ot a spring from a broken tape measure. The tape measure is hard to drill and the best way to drill is use a nail to punch it. Or order the correct piece as John suggest. My assy had prongs but yours was a straight snap in.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

After seeing your truck side I have those trucks on my red flatcars and I have one pickup. 



The metal spring is a ground strap 581-9 and with a metal frame there is a metal washer 9T-16 and the rivet 485-16 Truck stud, which uses the horseshoe clip to fasten it to the frame 480-18. I used a screw and nut here. This was done years ago.



I have not used the Lionel piece described by John on this type of truck. It would fit if you drilled holes. Does this help?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The piece I posted snaps right into Lionel AAR plastic trucks.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I have a few suggestions.

Your car has seen a lot of running time, that's a good thing.

Look at all of the dirt which has built up on the wheels! You may want to start off by cleaning the wheels.

Also, look at the pickups on T-Man's excellent post. You can see brass wipers which rub on the axles. You can try to mimic them.

I'm assuming your pickup is plastic. If not a wire should go on the body of the pickup. It looks like it rubs on the axle just under the screw driver bit in your photo.

You may have luck putting a wiper of some sort where the pickup wedges against the axle.

Clear as mud?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Another suggestion, on the opposite truck you could bend a simple connector over each axle. Then drill a hole in each and use he tension of a ball point pen spring to keep them against the axles. Solder to one of the lugs. I will post here if I do a prototype.





Looking at Johns truck he has holes on the side for those prongs to sit. Then the top is plastic and a big washer sits there contacting the steel frame with the help of the truck rivet.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's very creative T-Man, that will fix the wheel contact issue. I'd use copper contacts and a fairly light spring to avoid the wheels dragging.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am sure they are copper and I had to cut the spring to fit a few times. I figured two connectors would be easier to get.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Probably a lot easier. I use brass stock and cut the axle wipers similar in shape to the factory ones. I end up with lots of pickup rollers, but I always seem to lack the axle wiper when I'm powering something. I will have to keep your mod in mind, that's a pretty slick and easy to build solution.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I track tested and the wheels dragged. I unwrapped the connector which helped but the spring has a lot of tension. I may try cutting the connectors to reduce the surface tension. Electrically they test fine with the meter. The first time I tried to get them on took multiple times. Adjusting length and crimping the connectors after every attempt. Then I got the length right and soldered it in.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think the key is the spring tension, it will have to be pretty loose to make this work.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Seek the Postwar......*

Seek the Postwar years and Ye shall find. The answer is so simple , it has nothing to do with a wiper (HO) or a spring just the common base plate but I cannot find the number, I found the 480-25 that has a knuckle with the base plate. The idea is that many times the knuckle falls off and it is easy to find a coupler missing a knuckle. They can be repaired but just keep the baseplate and use it as a wiper for a plastic truck. SO simple.


Just solder a wire to the frame or use the hole for the knuckle rivet.





This base has the spring plate so I just reversed it away from the plastic knuckle.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Now that Christmas presentations and filming are completed, I did some searching around and came upon 482-3 which spans the axles as well as has a collector:








Enlargement is here: http://marketplace-images.collector...44de18f7b76ed6372eec0111a2996e9-600-482-3.JPG

I recognized it as what's on one of my 2440 pullman cars. That car has the notorious distinction of being the most blinking car in my collection. However it's is still better than my modified 6219.

I never thought about it but engines don't blink at all and my lit cars DO blink. Is that just the limit of the mechanical truck/collector connection that really needs a capacitor for a steady light? LEDs seem to be worse than incandescents.

Thoughts?


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

HOLD THE PHONE! @Dave Sams called it. I was looking at building something between axles when I noticed my soldered ground was solid as could be. That's when I noticed a ridge on all the wheels. They were coated in grime. I just hadn't noticed but Dave had. After a good scrape and steel wool (jk), all is well. The 6219 blinks no more than any other car. <blush> 



Dave Sams said:


> I have a few suggestions.
> Your car has seen a lot of running time, that's a good thing.
> 
> Look at all of the dirt which has built up on the wheels! You may want to start off by cleaning the wheels.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Using the center roller on both truck helps, instead of just using one.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Just a followup. The lack of blinking was short-lived. I desoldered the ground, added a copper wipe to the other axle and cleaned the wheels with alcohol all to no avail. Checking resistance between the ground and the wheel shows the poor continuity of the trucks. Next stop.... add a second collector. hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

LED lighting is the cure for flickering lights.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

It is an LED light. hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's not an LED that has a decent sized capacitor to maintain the light over brief power interruptions or it wouldn't flicker.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I think GRJ is saying to add a capacitor before the light. It will store the juice and the lights wount flicker. I think you need to clean your track too. If the crud on the wheels fixed the problum, even if short lived , it's probably something worth looking into. Good luck.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Yes, you're right, it needs a capacitor. Adding one is on my list of things to start doing with this and other units. I've seen the posts about how to do it. Should be fun.

On a lark, I cleaned the collector and added a copper wipe that spans both axles. That improved things. 

I also ordered the Lionel collector GRJ recommended earlier that includes wipes and will put it on the other truck. Thanks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My LED lighting module includes a capacitor to prevent flicker. Unless I run over a really large dead spot, I never see any change in the lighting in any cars I've put it in. Having two pickups is pretty mandatory as there are short dead spots on every switch.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

Ahhhh got it. I just found your post about premade units. Awesome

http://henningstrains.lightspeedwebstore.com/20110-led-lighting-regulator-2-pcs/dp/255

I was going to try the DIY rig here but not sure it'd be doable without the beer. 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=1241649&postcount=57


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's possible to "roll your own" with discrete components, that's what I used to do. I got tired of the manual work and figured that having a PCB would be a lot quicker and easier. Here's the schematic of what's on that lighting module. The unlabeled regulator is a LM317CT.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

I have some pre-war passenger cars that could benefit. You still need two collectors with that PCB?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Unless you add some really large capacitance to your lighting, you'll always need to have two pickups. When you cross over a switch and lose the juice, that's too long an interval without a lot of bulk capacitance to power the lighting for an extended period. I designed it to work in normal passenger car environments where you have two pickups on each car. You could replace the 330uf capacitor with a really large one, say 4700uf, that would give you a lot more storage time for longer power interruptions.

One cure for that issue is a one-wire tether between cars to share the pickups with multiple cars. I use this technique for small steamers with closely spaced rollers on the locomotive. By sharing the tender pickups, I insure that they won't stall on switches.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's possible to "roll your own" with discrete components, that's what I used to do. I got tired of the manual work and figured that having a PCB would be a lot quicker and easier. Here's the schematic of what's on that lighting module. The unlabeled regulator is a LM317CT.
> 
> View attachment 235530


GRJ, does R2 provide voltage adjustment at the DC outputs?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, R2 provides current adjustment. LED's are current mode devices, so my regulator circuit is a constant current regulator. It supplies from around 5ma to 45ma of current, depending on the setting of R2. I find constant current regulation better for LED use.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> This is the collector I use. It includes the axle wipers for the ground. They're $4.00 at www.Lionel.com
> 
> View attachment 118961


FWIW, I got around to trying this collector and it doesn't fit between the side rails of my 6219 truck as-is. Mulling it over.


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

I bagged adding a second collector and am declaring this renovation complete. Adding a ground to the second truck axle and chassis helped combat flicker significantly. I added a second 5mm LED for the cab and a 1.8mm slow flashing red LED to the rear of the chassis for a FRED. Video at the end of this post. LEDs and 2-pin connectors are here:

Cab LED:
http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/bl-212.html

Track power FRED of various sizes:
http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/slow-flash-led.html

2-pin connector:
http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/pin-connectors.html

The FRED is simply glued to the bottom of the chassis and it's wires threaded through to inside the cab where it's wired along with the 5mm LEDs to a male 2-pin connector. Both axles are connected to the chassis and wired into a female 2-pin connector. 








I was unhappy with the brightness of a single 5mm LED but all I had on hand was one Orange and one Warm White. The Warm White LEDs are really yellow and I wanted to match the incandescents of my pre and post war cars. Orange matches well. I used dark orange gel to fashion a cover for the Warm White. A drywall anchor was the perfect form for making a tube from the gel. I then fashioned and glued a top onto the tube. 








It fit perfectly and the gel seated nicely in the paraffin wax I use to hold the LEDs pointed toward the cab windows.








I'm happy with the matching color of the LEDs with the 2440 Pullman but the wash you get from the 5mm LEDs is nothing compared to a single 18v incandescent of old.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Ernesthouse, Initially you lost the first Battle, but with some persistence, you eventually wound up winning the War. Great job, even with all the time you had to spend. Nice addition to a normally bland work caboose.:appl::smilie_daumenpos:


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

I dare say it would not have been possible without the assistance of you guys specifically and MTF in general. I learned a ton. Especially the importance of clean wheels and grounding. 

Comparing it now with the original attempt is night and day. There's also a certain pleasure in bringing your average 1960 toy into modern times and giving it the legs to go on for another generation. 

Hmmmm maybe one more touch to give it clear windows from some plastic packing material in the waste bin and have a use for that Woodland Scenics Brakeman waiting to go pee ....


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