# Selecting a loco



## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

My 18 y.o. son and I are starting a build from scratch. Other than owning a Life-Like HO beginner set 8 years ago, we are novices. We've been researching daily, for the last few weeks, about various topics of interest. We have about 75 square feet of space, but plan to start small (perhaps an initial 4x8) with additional sections when we're ready to expand.

Focusing on locomotives we've narrowed down our search to HO --> Steam (style only is fine, doesn't need to puff smoke) --> 2-8-2 Mikado --> Southern rail line --> DCC (preferably equipped). 

I think I would like to stick with a new purchase (and warranty). In the new market I'm seeing 2 choices: Broadway Limited (#5555 and #5556) and Bachmann (#54403). BLI is at the top of my locomotive budget and costs about 25-35% higher than the Bachmann (depending on website availability). Looking at pics on the internet, the BLI appeared to have finer detail and overall better appearance in my opinion. Unfortunately you can't always trust pics on the internet. We saw one of the BLIs at a local train shop and it was quite attractive. They did not have a Bachmann on hand. 

As far as performance, I didn't find many reviews about these 2 specific models. Summarizing what I did find, BLI seemed to have fairly high approval, while Bachmann was more "hit or miss" and needing more set up work straight out of the box to get them running smoothly. 

Right now, BLI is sitting #1 for me. Would love some sage advice from anyone willing to chime in. Thanks!


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

I've got a HO scale BLI 2-8-2 Mikado with Paragon 2 DCC & sound on my layout that I've owned for about 3 years now. It is my favorite locomotive and I've had zero problems with it. It performs great at slow speeds, the audio sounds good, and it doesn't derail on my layout. I don't have any Bachmann locomotives, so I can't help with any comparisons. Here's a picture of my Mikado with some weathering done to it.


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

Mark, thanks for the comments on your Mike. They are very helpful. Since you commented on the lack of derailments, I'd love to know what type of track you run on your layout? (Another decision in my near future)

What a fantastic picture! Can't wait to show my son. The weathering looks great.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I second that, a nice shot of your RR.
The weathering looks great.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That locomotive looks great. Really nice weathering job.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

OkiPirate said:


> Since you commented on the lack of derailments, I'd love to know what type of track you run on your layout?


I'm using all code 83 track. The flex track and turnouts are all Walthers products. I also used a section of MicroEngineering Bridge flex track for my steel viaduct bridge. I mainly went with Walthers turnouts because I needed a few curved turnouts, which only a few manufacturers make. I've been very pleased with all my Walthers turnouts, but they are a bit expensive. BTW, my minimum radius is 22 inches, so that might help too.


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

Mark, you read my mind. I was just thinking about turn radius and my space/layout. BLI mentions 18 minimum, but I have good space and was planning for wider. 22 should be very doable in my open space. Thanks for the other info, you hit several get points I was after, especially the code 83. Having just a cheap starter set back in the day I didn't have to pick out the track. I didn't even know there were different "codes" until I read one of the "beginner articles" last week on this forum.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

All but four of my 20-something steamers are BLI/PCM. I have had to send back four steamers to BLI for repair, and have never had a plug come back. My first request for a repair was my own fault...I had installed a tender truck backwards, meaning it immediately shorted out the decoder. They sent it back free of charge, meaning the repair included a free decoder replacement and return shipping.

I feel that BLI is a serious product, a serious player in the hobby, and they offer a good warranty and repair if something goes wrong. Note that Bachmann has a greatly improved product line since about 2005, and their steamers are very popular.

PCM (BLI line 13 years ago) Y6-b Mallet:


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

Thanks mesenteria! Very helpful info about your experiences with BLI repairs and customer service. I had not seen "PCM" before. Just read about the BLI-PCM connection... interesting.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

_Disclaimer:_
I don't own any Bachmann or BLI engines.

But from reading about others who do...

BLI offers more product detail, but it seems that lately a high number of owners have had defects/glitches and have had to send the engines back for repair.

Bachmann products aren't quite up to the detailing standard of BLI (in most cases), but folks seem to have fewer operational problems with them.

Again, that's only what I gather from reading the posts of others.

*ALSO...*

I believe you're severely "limiting yourself" by narrowing your locomotive choice to such a narrow criteria.
If you _"like Southern",_ look at ALL the various engines you can get in Southern paint schemes.

I'd be looking out for "new old stock" Proto 2000 diesels in Southern paint...


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

J.Albert1949 said:


> I believe you're severely "limiting yourself"...


Thanks for your input, it is appreciated. You're certainly correct about limiting our choices, however my son and I both love the look of steam engines. His favorite steam engine style/look is the Mikado. 

The Southern line was not must have, but it's available after meeting the first 2 criteria. We're happy it's available since we live in Raleigh, NC, which was on the Southern Railway line. We're not planning a historical re-creation, but we like the idea of having a train line that actually ran through our home town.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Hi. 
I strongly advise you to avoid the archaic, 75 year old concept of a flat, 4'x8' type and look into shelf/around the walls type layout, open grid, or L girder benchwork construction. Making and maintaining a MRR on a 4x8 is rife with headaches..But because you may be dead set on going 4x8 I'm not going to go into why that is unless you request it..


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

Hi telltale. Thank you for the advice. No, we do not want a 4'x8'. I shouldn't have mentioned that above... I was trying to indicate we would probably start with a small section and expand over time. I've since changed my mind. I don't want to go through the stages of building a layout and then start the whole process over for each new section.

I just put a tape measure on the available area and it's roughly 6'x17'. One of the 17' sides is against a wall. I don't know the terminology for track layouts, but I'm picturing a wide, shallow U-like shape with the bottom of the U running along the 17' wall and maybe ~3' deep. My son and I are both 6'5" with long reach. The bottom of the U would provide nice long straights with some turn outs. The ends of the table would expand out to 6' deep for turn arounds. The ends would have 3-sided access to easily reach all areas of the table.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Except for some rapid transit and trolley systems real RRs do not form a huge loop. They are 'point to point' with turning facilities at one or both ends of the line...I mention this because instead of having trains continually running via a huge loop or loops you can build a MRR where you are forced to perform prototype activity to send trains from end to end to the other via a wye, or turntable..Some short lines and branch lines run in one direction spotting/retrieving cars at industries along the way and simply run in reverse back home if they are only, say, 40 Mi. or so..You can still design it to gain distance thru the way it might zig zag, go up and over, disappear in tunnels, etc..Similar to this you can build a 'switchback' RR..Some modelers frown on this as it requires too much work. I just happen to enjoy that extra work. 
If you find you need to cut track I'd highly recommend your buying a pair of Xuron Rail Nippers now ($7). When you use them the flat side of the jaws goes against the good rail; the concave side produces the bad rail. And you cut top to bottom of rail, not side to side.
Good luck, M 🏬🏭 🛤🌄🌵


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

OkiPirate said:


> My 18 y.o. son and I are starting a build from scratch. Other than owning a Life-Like HO beginner set 8 years ago, we are novices. We've been researching daily, for the last few weeks, about various topics of interest. We have about 75 square feet of space, but plan to start small (perhaps an initial 4x8) with additional sections when we're ready to expand.
> 
> Focusing on locomotives we've narrowed down our search to HO --> Steam (style only is fine, doesn't need to puff smoke) --> 2-8-2 Mikado --> Southern rail line --> DCC (preferably equipped).
> 
> ...


OkiPirate; Sorry for the duplicate response. Traction Fan 

The other guys have handled your original question. Through the thread it seems that other thing have come up, as they do for every new model railroader. You are lucky to have plenty of space, and a son who shares the hobby with you. The Files below have lots of information on several model railroad topics. look through them if you like. I also recommend the book "Getting Started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. You can order a copy from Kalmbach Hobby Store or www.amazon.com

Good Luck & Have Fun

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

OkiPirate said:


> My 18 y.o. son and I are starting a build from scratch. Other than owning a Life-Like HO beginner set 8 years ago, we are novices. We've been researching daily, for the last few weeks, about various topics of interest. We have about 75 square feet of space, but plan to start small (perhaps an initial 4x8) with additional sections when we're ready to expand.
> 
> Focusing on locomotives we've narrowed down our search to HO --> Steam (style only is fine, doesn't need to puff smoke) --> 2-8-2 Mikado --> Southern rail line --> DCC (preferably equipped).
> 
> ...


OkiPirate;

Your original locomotive question has already been answered well. I just wanted to pass on some general information on model railroading via the files below, since you said you are both novices. I would also recommend the book "Getting Started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It covers a wide variety of model railroad subjects in simple text & many color photos. You can order a copy from Kalmbach Hobby Store or www.amazon.com You are lucky to have a son to share the hobby with, and plenty of space.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

telltale... interesting ideas. You've given me some new things to investigate. Even as an old dog I enjoy learning new tricks.

traction fan... thanks for the attachments. I read several of them last week and found them to be very-well tailored for the novice modeler. Look forward to checking out the ones I missed!


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

OkiPirate said:


> ...The bottom of the U would provide nice long straights with some turn outs. The ends of the table would expand out to 6' deep for turn arounds. The ends would have 3-sided access to easily reach all areas of the table.


I hope you won't mind me jumping in so late. Aesthetically, long tangents are undesired on our model layouts. The rails like them because they're the least costly in terms of engineering and infrastructure, but on our layouts they look....unimaginative. Instead, fashion a long sweeping curve, or make the 'tangent' follow a contour around a knoll. The knoll's design and construction will be an important element in your learning of how to craft realistic terrain.

In reality, the real railroads are curves connected by tangents. Since nature's contours are curved, from above, the rails follow contours in an attempt, usually a vain one, of maintaining, and not losing or gaining, altitude. While descents aren't necessarily bad, having to gain elevation again costs a lot of fuel because it requires at least doubling the horsepower if the train is to maintain a schedule of some kind.


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

mesenteria said:


> I hope you won't mind me jumping in so late.


Not at all. Now is the perfect time for all the input I can get. We're not in a rush... we want a hobby, not a project to start, finish, and be done with.

We're about to clean out the space today and cover the floor with pieces of card board (if I can find enough in the garage). This should give us a better visual of the actual space and we can even pencil in some ideas. We found some old track pieces and rolling stock from our previous HO starter set. Not using them in this build, but they should help for a little size guestimating at this very early stage.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

There are two sticky threads here with lots of track plans. Poke through those and see if anything inspires your creativity.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

telltale said:


> Except for some rapid transit and trolley systems real RRs do not form a huge loop. They are 'point to point' with turning facilities at one or both ends of the line...I mention this because instead of having trains continually running via a huge loop or loops you can build a MRR where you are forced to perform prototype activity...


This is supposed to be a fun hobby. No one should be "forced" too do anything they don't want to no matter how un-prototypical it may be.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

There is such a thing as a 'balloon track', and there ARE turning loops in many coal loading facilities. The majority of passenger terminals are push/pull where leading engines came to a terminal, uncoupled, and reversed out through a crossover and went on to servicing. If needed, a terminal switcher would shove the passenger consist forward immediately so that passengers could disembark closer to the terminal or ground transport. And that's only if the train wasn't backed in in the first place.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> This is supposed to be a fun hobby. No one should be "forced" too do anything they don't want to no matter how un-prototypical it may be.


*D*ear sir or madam, you misunderstand my meaning of the use 'forced' because you are trigger-happy to accuse another too quickly !! It's, technically, called 'prejudice'.
*I* meant that by running a 'point to point' operation it (gratefully) *forces* one (me and other 'P to P'-ers) to *HAVE* to run the RR more like the 1:1 scale does, where, except at huge passenger and some intermodal yards where a loop, called a 'balloon track' can be found for reversing whole trains, 99.44% of real RRs are 'point to point', they too forced to turn trains on either a turntable or wye at each terminus. IE. A model P to P railroad forces one to operate more like the real one, if that be your cup of tea; what turns you on, running-wise; the forcing of this particular RR activity welcomed by the modeler as potentially more realistic than some other types of MRR layout configurations, ones usually with main lines running in a circular fashion sometimes called 'roundy-rounds' or 'continuals'....
..Do bear in mind that any above claim/suggestion is not meant as a value judgement of any other model rail's way of going about it...I never lose sight of the fact that it's a hobby where railroading in miniature is in the hive of the bee-holder... 🏬🏭🛤🌄 *M*


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your continued input. I didn't plan for this thread to go beyond it's initial topic, but I'm glad it has. It has been very helpful and I excited to hear more.



telltale said:


> ..Do bear in mind that any above claim/suggestion is not meant as a value judgement of any other model rail's way of going about it...I never lose sight of the fact that it's a hobby where railroading in miniature is in the hive of the bee-holder... 🏬🏭🛤🌄 *M*


No worries telltale... that's exactly how I interpreted your previous post. As a matter of fact, your post and traction fan's document on "layout planning" spurred a conversation between my son and I. I brought up the point-to-point concept and he told me he had seen that discussed online. He then said he would really like a working train yard. I said, "Awesome!, we could look at a point-to-loop layout." So rather than sticking some random turnouts in the middle of our long straight-aways, we've now decided to put a working train yard on one end of the layout where there's plenty of room for action.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I'll second what Oki suggests because that is how I took it at face value. By constraining one's options, one is more 'forced' to deal with a problem with limited solutions, sometimes quite creatively. It's what can keep a layout 'young' for a while longer than one with an oval, a rudimentary yard, a passing siding, and a crossover.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

mesenteria said:


> I'll second what Oki suggests because that is how I took it at face value. By constraining one's options, one is more 'forced' to deal with a problem with limited solutions, sometimes quite creatively. It's what can keep a layout 'young' for a while longer than one with an oval, a rudimentary yard, a passing siding, and a crossover.


Isn't it really what *I'D* said in post #23 ? ! Oki was seconding me .... M


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

telltale... mesentaria was simply saying he also interpreted your earlier post the same way I did. We both read your post as point-to-point type layouts can "force" (in a good way) modelers to be more creative in their layout rather than building a simple loop. We were both agreeing with you. As I said before, you're comments have already helped to improve my layout design.


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## Original Woody's Workshop (Jan 29, 2020)

OkiPirate said:


> My 18 y.o. son and I are starting a build from scratch. Other than owning a Life-Like HO beginner set 8 years ago, we are novices. We've been researching daily, for the last few weeks, about various topics of interest. We have about 75 square feet of space, but plan to start small (perhaps an initial 4x8) with additional sections when we're ready to expand.
> 
> Focusing on locomotives we've narrowed down our search to HO --> Steam (style only is fine, doesn't need to puff smoke) --> 2-8-2 Mikado --> Southern rail line --> DCC (preferably equipped).
> 
> ...


May I suggest (like others have suggestions), Model Railroad Academy | Online Model Railroad Videos They are a video library (much like Kalmbach, but with more realistic prices). Just sign up for their Emails. You'll start getting them right away. They will be invite you to join the premium membership for about $3 for a year (Normally $70). This will give hundreds of hours of how too's in full length (unlike the free segments you'll see as a non member). Also tours of model railroads from top named modelers. You'll see things like John Armstong's Layout, George Sellios's layout being completed in 3 segments, past and present layouts going back into the 70's.
In a month or so you will be offered the gold membership for about the same amount of $3. With this you get a dozen or so uninterupted vidio tours with question and answer seasons.
You will also get a few free classes, and discounts on upcoming classes. They have a live video chat with a particular thing of interest to modelers.
Every week you will receive huge discount on certain subjects from 50% to 90% off regular prices. They often run the 11 CD set which cover A LOT for under $30.
One thing I would like to point out, and others may disagree with me. But you will eventually run across these adds where you buy into this blog for $27 or more. With that they say you get a book, and 5 t0 7 free books. These free books aren't free. They are only free, and available if you pay the next month blog fee. Most of that information is free online, and on you tube where video's explain things better. And the books are ONLY offered at downloads, so you know it's put together off the web to begin with.
For your question, do a internet search for Model Railroad suppliers. Narrow your search down to US based, or you'll get everything to England and Germany. When you find good ones, book mark them. The good one's let you know of new upcoming releases and chance to pre-order, and let you know when extra's have arrived and are for sale (be quick to buy here if you want it). 
You are interested in DCC? If you are doing a 4 x8 layout in HO there is no need for that kind of expense to run 1, maybe 2 loco's. Put that money in good track and loco's. That will take a lot of trouble free mileage, more so than DCC and cheap track and low grade engines!
But you will find out all of this on your own when you do the proper homework before you jump in. This hobby can be super fun, or super frustrating. 
It's the way you start out and proceed from doing enough, or too little (or none) of the home work that needs to be done first when you're first starting out.
Be sure of what you're buying and what it exactly is. If it seams like an out of this world deal, it's probably not a deal at all but hype for a low quality product.
And remember, the only dumb question, is the question not asked.
Good Luck, and Love the time with your Son!


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

Thanks Woody. That's a ton of info. I appreciate you taking the time to share it.


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

Hey Gang, thanks for all the great input. We're continuing our research of layouts, track, controllers, etc, but we've made a decision on a loco. 

We ordered a BLI #5555 (2-8-2, HO, DCC, Paragon 3, Southern line). Should receive it sometime next week.

Big thanks to everyone that shared their knowledge.


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## HowardH (Sep 18, 2020)

Mark VerMurlen said:


> I've got a HO scale BLI 2-8-2 Mikado with Paragon 2 DCC & sound on my layout that I've owned for about 3 years now. It is my favorite locomotive and I've had zero problems with it. It performs great at slow speeds, the audio sounds good, and it doesn't derail on my layout. I don't have any Bachmann locomotives, so I can't help with any comparisons. Here's a picture of my Mikado with some weathering done to it.
> View attachment 547090
> 
> Thanks for the childhood memories your pic evoked. Grew up in Seattle, grandparents in Spokane. Great part about seeing them was getting to ride the Empire Builder. Favorite cartoon character at the time was Rocky the Great Northern Goat.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You have to type your message outside of the quote tag of the poster's message your are quoting.


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## OkiPirate (Sep 10, 2020)

The new Loco arrived yesterday. My son is over the moon (me too!). We found our old DC controller and enough track for a simple oval to test it out. Looks great and runs smooth. With the DC we're only getting chuffing and some hissing sounds here and there. Can't wait to move to DCC, but will be doing additional homework before we decide on a controller.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Looks great!


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