# Help choosing locomotive



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

Farm fresh here looking for advice for a locomotive to run on my yet to be built layout
So far i have the Kato M2 set on the way to start the build.
I have decided on a Earlie to mid 60s theme for this and after researching which locos would be correct for this time period i have narrowed my choices down to these few, sd9,gp9,sd40 gp30 and gp35
A lot of the manufactures state in the description that the locos run best with a minimum 18" radius.
I can kinda see that with the sd9 being a six axel unit but i have trouble understanding why the four axel units would have a hard time with narrowed radius
Also any thoughts on the quality of the different brands.
Im a bit of a brand snob so i would like to stick to Kato if possible but not against using other makers.
I will try to stick to using only Kato unitrack to keep things simple
Thanks for any help in advance


----------



## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Just about all the brands today are quality products. Bachmann used to be pretty lousy, but they have greatly improved. Like you I am brand loyal, and I love Kato...have several of their diesels. But I also have a diesel and steamer from Bachmann, and they are really good locos. I don't know much about other brands, but have heard mostly good about all of them.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

If I can ask, any particular railroad/roadname?


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

I'm not stuck with any particular one but being raised in the ohio valley near Louisville Ky maybe L&N,CSX, Louisville & Indiana Railroad. There seams to be a lack of locos with those liveries. If i was doing Santa Fe i would be swimming in trains. The undecorated ones would be nice so i could find decals of my chosen roadname


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Spruslayer said:


> Farm fresh here looking for advice for a locomotive to run on my yet to be built layout
> So far i have the Kato M2 set on the way to start the build.
> I have decided on a Earlie to mid 60s theme for this and after researching which locos would be correct for this time period i have narrowed my choices down to these few, sd9,gp9,sd40 gp30 and gp35
> A lot of the manufactures state in the description that the locos run best with a minimum 18" radius.
> ...


 May I ask which scale you're using? I see you posted in the N-scale forum. However, you say the manufacturers give a minimum radius spec of 18"? That would be a broad curve in N-scale, capable of handling any N-scale locomotive. I'm a long time N-scaler, and I've never seen an N-scale locomotive with a recommended minimum radius of 18". Typical would be 11' radius or even 9-3/4" radius.

However, in HO-scale, 18" radius is quite a sharp curve it's one of the smallest radii made in sectional track. (there is 15" radius HO sectional track, but it will generally handle only very short equipment, and one of it's most common uses is on trolley layouts)
In fact, despite the manufacturer's statement, an HO-scale SD-9, and other six-axle diesels, (and steam with more than six drivers) may not work reliably on 18" radius curves. Generally HO-scale six-axle diesels do better on 22", or larger, radius curves.

Traction Fan


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

My 2 Athearn HO SD40’s, consisted together, track around an 18” curve with no issues.....

But in N scale, I only have 4 axle F7’s, and they work fine on all N scale track radiI.....


----------



## clovissangrail01 (Oct 8, 2019)

I run Kato N scale passenger trains on Kato Unitrack on a 36-inch HC door. I started with the M1 set, then added several of the Variation packs. The M1 and M2 sets all are based on a 12-3/8 inch oval, and to this, I have added the V6 outer loop set, which is a 13-3/4 inch oval, and a larger 15-1/8 inch oval loop.

The Kato trains are either EMD E units or F units pulling those long 80-ft passenger cars, and both locomotives and cars do fine on all three of the above radii.

to give you something to compare, the E unit is a six-axle locomotive, and at over 70 feet, it is longer than any of the locomotives you are looking at.

There are some pictures in this thread if you want to see the trains -- The Layout Forty Years in the Making.


----------



## Barianiky08 (Dec 16, 2020)

[QUOTE = "clovissangrail01, pos: 2555334, anggota: 68228"]
I run a Kato N scale passenger train on the Kato Unitrack on the 36 inch HC door. I started with the M1 set, then added a few Variations packs. The M1 and M2 sets are all based on the 12-3 / 8 inch oval, and for this, I've added the V6 outer loop set, which is a 13-3 / 4 inch oval, and the bigger 15-1 / 8. inch oval circle.

Kato trains are EMD E or F units that tow 80 feet of passenger cars, and locomotives and carriages work well in all three spokes above.

in comparison, unit E is a six-axle locomotive, and over 70 feet, longer than any locomotive you can see.

There are several pictures in this thread if you want to see the train -

The Layout Forty Years in the Making .


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

traction fan said:


> May I ask which scale you're using? I see you posted in the N-scale forum. However, you say the manufacturers give a minimum radius spec of 18"? That would be a broad curve in N-scale, capable of handling any N-scale locomotive. I'm a long time N-scaler, and I've never seen an N-scale locomotive with a recommended minimum radius of 18". Typical would be 11' radius or even 9-3/4" radius.
> 
> However, in HO-scale, 18" radius is quite a sharp curve it's one of the smallest radii made in sectional track. (there is 15" radius HO sectional track, but it will generally handle only very short equipment, and one of it's most common uses is on trolley layouts)
> In fact, despite the manufacturer's statement, an HO-scale SD-9, and other six-axle diesels, (and steam with more than six drivers) may not work reliably on 18" radius curves. Generally HO-scale six-axle diesels do better on 22", or larger, radius curves.
> ...


In hindsight you are correct Traction as i believe i was mistakenly looking at an HO scale unit.
In my typical train wreck ways i need to move my theme up to mid to late 50s by purchasing this last nite









*BLI 3715 EMD SD40-2, UP #3128, Yellow & Gray, Paragon3 Sound/DC/DCC, N Scale*
Save 44%
The recommended radius is 9.75 so i think all will be fine on my yet to be layout.
I do plan on keeping the layout at 32" X 80" due to space limitations and it looks like the smallest radius offered from Kato is 8.5 so hopefully all will work out fine with this loco as long as i dont use the smallest radius.

🚂🚂


----------



## clovissangrail01 (Oct 8, 2019)

A couple of questions --

You said you need to move your theme up to mid to late 50s, but that SD40 is a late sixties and later locomotive. EMD made them from 1966 to 1972, Is that going to fit in OK with your fifties time scheme?

Refer4ence your door -- If you can squeeze an additional 4 inches of door width, you can get a 36-inch wide door for only a little bit more than a 32-inch, and this will allow you to use any of Kato's radii curves up to 15-1/8 radius without crowding the edge. It's not just a matter of functionality when determining your minimum radius; it's also a question of aesthetics. Long locomotives and cars look better on longer radii curves. (This is not so much of an issue if you are not doing an oval.)

Here are some pictures of an EMD E5 pulling 80-ft passenger cars over three different radii of Kato track -- 12-3/8 inch, 13-3/4 inch and 15-18 inch. The E5 and the passenger cars would be just slightly longer that your SD40, so hopefully you can imagine how it would look on these tracks. (The unconnected innermost curve is 11 inch radius, which I decided not to use because it didn't look good with those long passenger cars.)


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

clovissangrail01 said:


> A couple of questions --
> 
> You said you need to move your theme up to mid to late 50s, but that SD40 is a late sixties and later locomotive. EMD made them from 1966 to 1972, Is that going to fit in OK with your fifties time scheme?
> 
> ...


I did mean 60s ,having ten thumbs and not proof reading my post.going to 36 is possible,it's the lengthy I can t fudge with due to Available space. The inishal plan was to keep all the layout within the oval that comes with the Kato M2 set but I'm finding how quickly plans can change. As of now I don't even have a plan set in stone so I'm going to design in SCARM till I come up with something I like


----------



## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

With N scale it's easy to pick good locomotives. Just go to N-Scale Locomotive Encyclopedia (North American Prototypes) find the prototype loco on the right, the manufacturerer and/or the importer you are considering and see the rating and review to decide if it's worth buying as well as the model manufacturered year and the prototype year, ease of installing DCC decoder if not equipped. An invauluable and unbiased evaluation of virtually every n scale American prototype ever sold. (note: I have no connection to this list, just a very satisfied user.)


----------



## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

There are also a multitude of free N scale track plans on the web in all sizes and complexities. I would highly recommend going with the 36" width to allow more interesting track plans and double tracking, as well as skewing the plan so that the track does not parallel the edges all the way around. makes for a visually more interesting and less "predictable around the xmas tree" look. as well as room for scenery. I use the free software xtrackcad for layout planning. It has a fairly shallow learning curve, and you can import a plan picture, use it as a template to do what ifs variations, even run simulated trains to test the layout functionality. Highly recommended.


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

scenicsRme said:


> With N scale it's easy to pick good locomotives. Just go to N-Scale Locomotive Encyclopedia (North American Prototypes) find the prototype loco on the right, the manufacturerer and/or the importer you are considering and see the rating and review to decide if it's worth buying as well as the model manufacturered year and the prototype year, ease of installing DCC decoder if not equipped. An invauluable and unbiased evaluation of virtually every n scale American prototype ever sold. (note: I have no connection to this list, just a very satisfied user.)





scenicsRme said:


> There are also a multitude of free N scale track plans on the web in all sizes and complexities. I would highly recommend going with the 36" width to allow more interesting track plans and double tracking, as well as skewing the plan so that the track does not parallel the edges all the way around. makes for a visually more interesting and less "predictable around the xmas tree" look. as well as room for scenery. I use the free software xtrackcad for layout planning. It has a fairly shallow learning curve, and you can import a plan picture, use it as a template to do what ifs variations, even run simulated trains to test the layout functionality. Highly recommended.


Thank you scenicsRme for the resource links
I didn't find the Loco from post #9 above in the list i did find that most of the BLI ones rated at an A
I have a design i made in SCARM that im going to do but im gonna stick 32X 80 due to space








Thanks again for the post


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Spruslayer said:


> In hindsight you are correct Traction as i believe i was mistakenly looking at an HO scale unit.
> In my typical train wreck ways i need to move my theme up to mid to late 50s by purchasing this last nite
> View attachment 550921
> 
> ...


Very nice pick for your first Loco!! I have a couple a sd-40-2 and a GE ES44AC both have great sound and run great. The company BLI is great if you have any problems with it.(This is my experience with them) You may hear otherwise but....


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

Thanks bewhole
The Loco is supposed to arrive Saturday along with the KatoV5 set.
The Kato M2 starter i bought on the 13 has not shipped yet so ill have time to get the bench work up


----------



## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

It was on the list, rated A, first offered 2018. the ordering on the list is computer ordering of mixed alphabetic and numeric names so it may seem missordered at times. Just scan down the proto manufacturer listings may turn it up. BLI make gorgeous N scale locos both appearance and operation and the paragon sound adds the icing to the cake. I have 3 of their locos. When I plan my layout, I divide it up into "mini scenes" of what happens here and why then what happens next. gives reason to placing track in certain places, clues as to what the terrain, scenery, and supporting structures will be and reduces the likelyhood of ending up with a loop and "dead storage tracks" That can get boring in a hurry both for the operator and observers, unless you really want a turn it on and watch the train go around and around layout. Each to their own. Since you are pretty much committed to DCC operation with a sound equipped loco, you should take into account running more than one train at the same time either in the same direction or multiple directions and what will they do and what happens when they meet? Personally I think there are much more interesting and fun to operate track arrangements possible in your space.


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

scenicsRme said:


> It was on the list, rated A, first offered 2018. the ordering on the list is computer ordering of mixed alphabetic and numeric names so it may seem missordered at times. Just scan down the proto manufacturer listings may turn it up. BLI make gorgeous N scale locos both appearance and operation and the paragon sound adds the icing to the cake. I have 3 of their locos. When I plan my layout, I divide it up into "mini scenes" of what happens here and why then what happens next. gives reason to placing track in certain places, clues as to what the terrain, scenery, and supporting structures will be and reduces the likelyhood of ending up with a loop and "dead storage tracks" That can get boring in a hurry both for the operator and observers, unless you really want a turn it on and watch the train go around and around layout. Each to their own. Since you are pretty much committed to DCC operation with a sound equipped loco, you should take into account running more than one train at the same time either in the same direction or multiple directions and what will they do and what happens when they meet? Personally I think there are much more interesting and fun to operate track arrangements possible in your space.


I agree about the track plan can use some changes. That design is based on a plan i found on the Katousa site.It lets me make use of the M2 and V5 set plus about $300 more in separate track pieces with minimum leftover track.I also want to do some elevation but i want to be sure i can put together a layout that works just laying flat.I feel sure this is going morph as i go along this build


----------



## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

They all do. LOL! Might check out the trackplans in this link Mike's Small Trackplans Page to see what is possible on a door. He's a pro-planner using atlas sectional track, but it's nearly piece by piece replaceable with Kato unitrack. Try buying your track on ebay, used track is just as good as new at 1/2 the price or less. Or in MRR thinking you can have twice as much track for the same money!


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

scenicsRme said:


> They all do. LOL! Might check out the trackplans in this link Mike's Small Trackplans Page to see what is possible on a door. He's a pro-planner using atlas sectional track, but it's nearly piece by piece replaceable with Kato unitrack. Try buying your track on ebay, used track is just as good as new at 1/2 the price or less. Or in MRR thinking you can have twice as much track for the same money!


That is a great source.Right off the bat plan door plan #2 captured my fancy
and just received notice that the Kato M2 has shipped.
Better get on that bench double time now!
🚂🚂


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

Spruslayer said:


> Farm fresh here looking for advice for a locomotive to run on my yet to be built layout
> So far i have the Kato M2 set on the way to start the build.
> I have decided on a Earlie to mid 60s theme for this and after researching which locos would be correct for this time period i have narrowed my choices down to these few, sd9,gp9,sd40 gp30 and gp35
> A lot of the manufactures state in the description that the locos run best with a minimum 18" radius.
> ...


I have received the BLI locomotive. I don't have a way to give it a run but i took some photos to share.
Im impressed with the detail on the body and it feels heavy ,solid and well built.
Comes in a nice hard plastic box that i will use to store it in wile not in use
The Kato M2 has just left Alanta today via the USPS so ill just sit tight till it arrives
And, this what my track layout has turned into with the addition of a small switch yard and an elevation feature with a bridge.









I've not figured how to show elevation so the bold grey track is an incline to a raised land also will be some tunnels. I hope i can keep the inclines at 2% or ittle be back to the drawing board, This has also gave me a couple inches on the length so its not completely end to end






































This years hot selling add on to Alexa

Merry Christmas every one !


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Well while you are waiting for that to come in first things first. Go here and registrar it for warranty.
Broadway Limited Imports: The Cutting Edge Leader in Sound Equipped Model Trains
Then go here and get the *Instruction Manuals* for For DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES that will give you all the CV's for the loco and for the sound part. And there is way more info on there.








Broadway Limited Imports: The Cutting Edge Leader in Sound Equipped Model Trains


The industry leader in premium sound-equipped HO & N scale Model Trains. Featuring our exclusive Paragon2 Sound and Control system which operates in both DC and DCC. Limited run production quantities. Preordering is highly recommended.



www.broadway-limited.com


----------



## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

This has turned in a study in paticen putting this together Those things and many others need done and everyday brings a new challenge. A concerns about where I have put the crossover and the turnout so close together and being so close to the edge of the table. Can use any input from anyone Thanks for looking 🚂🚂🚂


----------



## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Again AFA the crossover location: I look at the entire layout and mentally add structures and roads while saying "what is happening that requires a crossover" which helps to put it in a logical location. Turnouts can be back to back or arranged in a ladder without problems, quite common in yard arrangements. 2% grade is a good target, but you may not have enough track length. 3% is workable or even 3.5 % if you keep your trains short, 6-10 cars and have a good traction loco. I use a minimum distance of 3" from edge track to edge of board. 2" if along an edge that will have a backdrop, but it will be difficult to transition from track scenery to backdrop in that distance, Photo flats glued to the backdrop are a possible solution in an industrial area. With 3" should a train derail it will be less likely to tumble to the floor. Take a lesson from the real railroads. They put down track to reach a location and/or service customers and take the easiest and cheapest route possible, not always the straightest. They don't just put down track in hopes that it's needed in the future.


----------

