# Lionel Tenders with whistle and sound boards



## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Included in a recent purchase were two relatively modern tenders. Both shells are stamped as model 8050-T. One was sold as a New York Central tender with a printed circuit board and speaker. The second was sold as a Chesapeake and Ohio tender with a printed circuit board and whistle. Photos of both are attached. I do not know how these two tenders are to be operated or tested and would appreciate your assistance. 

















Thanks, swede


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I may be wrong but I think the top board is a sound of steam. If so, its triggered by your transformer for whistle and bell. Not sure about chuff but it may have inputs for a chuff switch. The sound is not very good though.

I am not familiar with the bottom board. Actually now that I see the air whistle, the bottom board detects a DC offset on the track and energizes the motor on top of the whistle. 
To test just put the tender on the track, turn up the power, and hit the whistle controller on your transformer. 

Pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The bottom is a DC motor operated whistle. That board works best with a CW 80 transformer. The postwar transformers may not work unless they are updated with a diode.

I am not familiar with a sound of steam operating with a bell or whistle. Three wires? One goes tot the engine smoke unit to contact the smoke movement to operate the sound. The third wire must go to a center roller for the bell/whistle. The last wire goes to the outer wheels


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks for the responses, Pete and Tman. Placing the whistle tender on the track and energizing the whistle switch using a 1033 transformer doesn't do anything, but the whistle operates perfectly if DC voltage is applied directly to the motor leads. Sounds to me like something is faulty in the circuit board but, even as simple as this board is, I wouldn't know how to check it out.

Regarding the Sound of Steam tender, which is what I thought it was, should I expect some kind of sound if the wire to the pickup roller and wire to the wheels are connected to the leads on a 1033 transformer with the 3rd wire unconnected and the whistle switch activated? If so, I don't, which may mean something in the board is faulty. As with the whistle tender, detecting faulty board components is not up my alley so unless a magic wand is located I guess I'll reassemble them and offer them for sale as inoperable. I doubt their value would warrant purchasing replacement boards if available.

Thanks again, swede


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The 1033 will not work, too old. You can try switching the wires to the track. Do you have the engine for the sound of steam?

there was a whistle with the board, One model had an actuator in the truck.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Swede, I think you just proved T man's point about needing a modern transformer to activate the air whistle. As an alternative you can replace the disk rectifier in your 1033 with a solid state diode of at least 8 amp rating. Thats what I did to mine it will trigger the air whistle.
On the SOS board, are the wires marked on the underside where they are supposed to be connected to?

Pete


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks, T-Man and Pete. I have seen how to make the diode upgrade and it sounds like something I should undertake before walking away from the tenders.

On the SoS, I do know which wire goes to the wheels and which to the pick up. That leaves the 3rd wire and if it is supposed to connect to the smoke unit of a SoS engine as T-Man indicates, I know where it goes, also. Unfortunately there is no suitable engine available. My most recent one is a 1950 diesel.

Sounds like the next step is to get a suitable transformer and check the whistles on both tenders assumining its ok to leave the 3rd wire of the SoS loose.

T-Man, in your post you included the comment "there was a whistle with the board, One model had an actuator in the truck." I'm not getting your meaning.

Thanks again, swede


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

If you know the two power wires it doesn't matter which goes to center rail. Try it both ways. If the board has both whistle and bell then if the wires are backwards the whistle will sound when you expect the bell and vice versa. With a 1033 you will only get one or the other and the other one when you switch the wires. Hook the wires right to the A - U terminals and try it.

Pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You need to go to the Lionel Site and upload supplement 1-.9 Check out the tenders in chapter 4. One diagram shows the acutator.

Lionel


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks T-Man and Norton, 

I do know where each of the two power wires go for both cars, however, if I understood you both correctly, there is no sense testing them until such time as I have upgraded the 1033 transformer. Correct?

swede


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

It won't hurt to try the SOS board with the 1033. It will either work or not but you won't blow anything up.
The main difference between an old 1033 and one with a solid state diode or a new transformer is the DC offset will be a little greater. What its putting out now may be enough to trigger the sounds on the SOS board but you won't know until you try.
Pete


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks Norton, I did try the 1033 in its current configuration, without the 3rd wire to smoke unit connected. No sound at all.

swede

ps; You indicated you replaced the rectufier with a diode. Is it possible to see a photo?

Thanks


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

It may be a few days as the 1033 is in the attic. I have moved "up" to an LW. I don't run a lot of conventional trains anymore but when I do I use a 135 watt Powermaster and Cab1. That does trigger both whistle and bell pretty reliably.

Pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The sound of steam boards were durable but this is the first time I have seen one with a whistle . If one wire has a connector then that one is for the chuff sound. If you want, search the tag, sound of steam to see what we covered in the past.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks Norton and T-Man. If not too much of an inconvenience, I would appreciate a photo. When I went looking for the info I had on the installation of the diode, I could not find it. I then went through previous posts on this forum as well as CTT and, frankly, came away confused. I think I know what to do but onone ever posted a completed photo that worked.

T-Man, I have seen photos of the connector wire between the tender and locomotive before, but if the third wire on this tender had an actual connector, it was removed. As is, connecting the pickup wire and wheel wire to the presently configured transformer does not provide any action.

swede


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Check out the Olsen diagram


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks for the response, T-Man. I have reviewed the Olsen drawing and wanted to see a photo of a completed revision for confirmation. When I pick up the 6 AMP barrel diode, I plan to remove the speed nut and disk, secure and insulate the rear of the disk mounting rod from the transformer plates, solder the anode end of the diode to the post connecting 6 & 7 together (not the cathode as in the drawing) and solder the cathode end of the diode to the bottom of the brass whistle contact and make sure there are no fit problems with the transformer cover. Sound ok?

I very much appreciate your's and Norton's assistance and, after the transformer revision, do hope that I can properly bench test the tenders. Unfortunalely, except for the couplers, I don't expect them to function properly.

swede


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

A update for T-Man and Norton.

Got around to to making the change to the 1033 transformer today. Not sure why I was worried about screwing something up! It works like it is supposed to.

Retested the two whistle tenders. The whistle only tender did not work. Will replace the single transistor and try again. The whistle on the whistle sound of steam tender worked fine. I don't have a locomotive to go with the tender so have no idea if the chuff function works.

Thank you for the help, swede


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Your single whistle tender is dc, electronic, and polarity sensitve. Reverse the wires to the track and try again.

The sound of steam operates from ac , i never heard a sound of steam whistle. Your DC pulse activated it. :thumbsup:

You could place a 1 k resistor on the end of the wire to test it. Just touch the center rail. It may get hot . Just tap it to get multiple sounds like I did jn the video

I like the sound of steam since it is an early, simple, electrical sound. Now that you showed me one with a whistle I have something to search for.
By using that Lionel supplement you can figure out the sound of steam engines. What you really need is the smoke unit with the contacts , then you can use any of the scout type engines. The smoke unit is still made today but without the contacts.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks, T-Man. 

After reversing the leads to the whistle only tender, the whistle did work but doesn't sound too good. 

For the SoS tender, I watched your video, soldered a 1k resistor in series with the chuff wire, placed the tender on the track, applied power, and bumped the resistor to the center rail. There was complete silence. Unless you have another suggestion, I'll leave it as is.

Thanks again, swede


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It has been a while since I tested one of these. Your outer rail connecton needs to be good. Since the whistle worked that means it should be good and the the speaker works. So the next step is to use a piece of wire and jump around the resistor. When you connect the resistor end to the center rail the speaker may humm. Then with a wire bypassing the resistor you should get static sound.

Your tender wheels need to be clean and the copper connections to the axles need to be clean too.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks, T-Man. Success!!! 

Did not get a speaker hum when the resistor was hooked to center rail but got the chuff, like in the video, when I toggled the jumper wire placed upstream of the resistor to the center rail. 

Now, do you know the part number of the wire connector between the tender and locomotive? Once the connector is in place the tender should be good to go.

Thanks again, swede


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

8142t-24 is the part number. You can ask Lionel parts but the part may be obsolete. 

Congrats on your success!


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