# N scal wheels. Kato for MTL



## ljg (9 mo ago)

N scale: Can one use Kato metal wheels in MTL trucks, and if so, what sort of stock/locos might this be done. Just changed a few Kato couplers to MTL couplers, and, as a complete novice to the entire hobby, am curious. Kato wheels look larger.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, there are 2 different wheel sizes…33” and 36”…..generally, 33” on older rolling stock, and 36” on passenger cars and more modern heavy cars (grain and coal hoppers, tank cars, etc)….

There should be sizes on the packages….


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

If your referring to axle length, there may be a difference as atlas and rivirossi are different lengths than bachmann and mt’s you can look on mt’s website as I believe they are .543 width. Could be wrong. But some may swim in a truck axle points and some may be to tight and not roll.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Don't they all swim on the same track width? Same distance between tracks or do different makers vary?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Yes, there are differences in axle length in addition to the diameter of the wheels. Although, the diameter of the wheels is just a cosmetic difference. The wrong axle length can cause problems.

Then, there are differences in flange height, but almost all currently produced wheels are short flanges (which is good, both aesthetically and functionally).


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

pmcgurin said:


> Don't they all swim on the same track width? Same distance between tracks or do different makers vary?


Yes, the wheels are spaced the same, but the little pointy parts that hold the wheelset into the truck are longer on some makes than others. If you put longer axles in the shorter truck, they bind and don't turn easily.

IIRC, older Atlas cars use longer axles than currently produced MTL wheelsets.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> Yes, there are differences in axle length in addition to the diameter of the wheels. Although, the diameter of the wheels is just a cosmetic difference. The wrong axle length can cause problems


Agreed. Wheel diameter difference in N scale is really not noticeable, but the incorrect axle length will cause operational problems, for sure….


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

A while back, I was going through an exercise to replace wheels and trucks to improve my rolling stock.

Here is a link to that discussion. There is extraneous info in there, but you may find some meaningful information by reading through it.

Stack ranking my N gauge rolling stock.

Another link with specifics about axle lengths
Let's discuss trucks


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I thought I explained it good enough but I guess not


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

When in doubt measure the axles you just took out. Harbor Freight has decent micrometers reasonably priced. I now have a good collection of different axle lengths in my wheels bin.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

And if you use the shorter MT axle in trucks that came with the longer axles, any twisting in handling or re-railing can allow the axle to fall out of the truck, and the shorter axles can allow the car to sway and shimmy as it goes down the track.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

N-scale axle lengths are a total mish-mash of craziness. In other words, very little standardization among manufacturers.

Here is a website that shows the various axle lengths of a bunch of manufacturers. Once the site pops up, scroll down to the "N Scale Wheels" section, and the axle lengths are listed in there.

SBS4DCC - N Scale Wheels, Trucks and Couplers

One would be wise to purchase a reasonably-priced micrometer at Harbor Freight Tools as suggested by 5kidsdad. That's the only way to accurately measure the various axle lengths. In addition, you can double-check any replacement wheel sets you buy. I purchased a set of metal wheels/axles one time, and immediately had problems when I started replacing wheel sets. Fortunately, I had a micrometer, and when I started checking the new axle lengths, they were not as advertised on the package - all longer than the advertised length. Heck, they weren't even consistent, for that matter. Poor quality control at the Chinese factory that produced them.

Wheel diameters matter, also. Be sure and replace the your original wheels with the same-sized wheels. Otherwise, you will start having coupler height problems. Just saw this happen with my local HO train club. Guys were changing out wheel sets in some of their freight trucks with the wrong wheel size. Their trains were coming uncoupled at a more frequent rate when running on the modular layout, due in large part to coupler height issues.

In general, passenger cars have 36" diameter wheels. Most freight cars have had 33" diameter wheels for the longest time, but more modern, larger freight cars may have 36" diameter. Autoracks have 28" diameter wheels, and I dunno, but maybe stack train well cars may also have them? Verification needed on that one. And I believe most diesel locos use 40" diameter. Might want to verify that one also.

Hope this helps 'splain things a little.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I wonder how many people are blissfully unaware of this? I am glad I read this thread.


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

pmcgurin said:


> I wonder how many people are blissfully unaware of this? I am glad I read this thread.


My guess is more than what you think. This should be appropriate for all scales. I learned the hard way. Would rather help people out than see them waste time and money.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

5kidsdad said:


> My guess is more than what you think. This should be appropriate for all scales. I learned the hard way. Would rather help people out than see them waste time and money.


You have my thanks. I had no idea, and now I will not change wheels around without measuring.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

yes, in the pre internet days we had to learn things from trial and (lots of) error, friends, or magazines that arrived 3-4 months after they were written, and could cost a fortune.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I remember those days, and in the eighties I gave up when my trains discomposed themselves.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

If it wasn’t for my Minitrix locomotives, I would have given up too….the rest of the pack (Life-Like, Bachmann, etc), were pretty crappy back then, the cause of a lot of frustration, and people would give up….

N scale has come a very long way since the late ‘60’s….


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I came back in the nineties and found Kato. I find it impossible to buy Bachmann. I see those crumbling steamers and discomposing F9s. The words of a Spanish major who always liked the Spanish word "descompuesto."


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I always check what the "spook" has to say before buying any used or old stock loco, he has saved me money and frustration: www.spookshow.com


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I agree with @scenicsRme 
Spookshow.net is a great resource for N scale reviews.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Here is my test track where I stack rank my rolling stock based on how well they roll down a 4% grade for the first 2 feet. It's an 8' long piece of 2" foam board that is 8" wide. I used 2 2-foot sections of incline starters from Woodland Scenic that are each a 2% grade. So the result is 4% over 2 feet, then level.

I have an old soft hand towel at the end, as the best rollers would run off the track. If it hits the towel, it's good to go. If not, I set them beside the track where they stop.

The poorest performers get new trucks. That will usually fix the car. I then stack rank the old trucks, and start replacing wheelsets until they run acceptably.










That's another test track on the right, along with a lot of structures that were part of an auction I won several weeks ago.


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