# What if..................



## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

someone decided, that since they gave away almost all of their "O" inventory to their grandchildren, yet still wanted something to pull their remaining cars, they went a little, "Crazy", and got this? Wouldn't this be nice and a Gunmetal Gray?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Does this make him "addicted?"

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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I'd say his eyesight is failing and he wants bigger trains so he can see what he's doing!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

"He", has, 1-283, 1-290, 2-300's, 2-302AC's and various and sundry, link/KC cars(14 total)!
"He" just needs a, "Toy Train" too!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Understood. Something simple to play with when you're tired of tackling the real thing!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

See, I knew you would understand

Besides, it's a bit, "Busted Up" and will require extensive reconstruction!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I wouldn't put too much time into it---it's just an O gauge.:laugh:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Stillakid said:


> See, I knew you would understand
> 
> Besides, it's a bit, "Busted Up" and will require extensive reconstruction!


It' looks "ready to run from here".

Mail should be here soon!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Reckers said:


> ---it's just an O gauge.:laugh:


BLASPHEMY! Bite your tongue, sir!


Jim, as you know, that's a prewar 1688 ... quite similar to the 1668 that T-Man and I have been playing around with. Based upon the real-life Loewy-designed streamliner.

The 1688 is the loco that I "discovered" was made in two version: one with a conventional motor, and one with a plastic-casing motor ... each with e-unit toggles (and holes through the shell) in different locations. Some recent thread discussions that might be helpful to you here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3726

Tell this "mystery man" that he'd better grab that 1688 and get it running 'round the track!

TJ


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob, Look closely at the cab area!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

TJ, those threads are what got me in this mess!

I'm thinking that when it gets here, I'll be finding out just how good a product, "FastSteel" is


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Didn't someone recently post that he was disposing of his father's O gauge and wanted to know if the track, at least was worth something? I seem to recall Stationmaster saying something to the effect the track was pretty worthless because there wasn't anything good that could run on it---something of that nature. But I digress. I was thinking...perhaps I could acquire the valueless track and rig up a small O gauge setup? Nothing much....a Tyco transformer, three or four lengths of straight track that ran to the edge of the table, and a large trash bin.....


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh ... I guess I'm GUILTY AS CHARGED. 

(I plead mercy on behalf of the Court, your Honor.)


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Background music for my new, 30" O gauge layout!

"Wreck Of The Old '97"

Well they gave him his orders at Monroe, Virginia,
Said: "Steve, you're way behind time,
"This is not 38, this is Ol' 97,
"Put her into Spencer on time."

Then he turned around and said to his black, greasy fireman,
"Shovel on a little more coal.
"And when we cross that White Oak mountain,
"Watch Ol' '97 roll."

And then a telegram come from Washington station,
This is how it read:
"Oh that brave engineer that run ol 97, 
"Is lyin in old Danville dead."

'Cos he was going down a grade making 90 miles an hour,
The whistle broke into a scream.
He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle,
Scalded to death by the steam.

Oh, now all you ladies you'd better take a warning,
From this time on and learn.
Never speak hard words to your true-lovin' husband.
He may leave you and never return.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Stillakid said:


> Bob, Look closely at the cab area!


They all look like that. It's hard to find one not broken. It runs on wheels not the cab.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> It runs on wheels not the cab.



OMG ... Too funny! That could be the new MTF motto! Love it!

Reck ... great song ... where'd ya' find that? I like it!

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

T-Man, you have a way with words----I like it! TJ, that's an old song about an actual incident. The engineer had a curved trestle at the bottom of the mountain and realized he didn't have the steam necessary to slow the train. He hit the trestle and vaulted off of it into the valley, below.

When I was a teen, my older brother brought home one of those "Yellow Sun records from Nashville", to quote John Sebastian. It was a new singer named Johnny Cash. I learned the song from that record, along with "Hey, Porter" and "I Walk the Line".


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

One more early Johnny Cash for you, TJ:

The Big Battle

I think sir the battle is over and the young soldier laid down his gun
I'm tired of running for cover I'm certain the bottle is done
For see over there where we fought them it's quiet for they've all gone away
All left is the dead and the dying the Blue laying long side the Gray
So you think the battle is over and you even lay down your gun
You carelessly rise from your cover for you think the battle is done
Now boy hit the dirt listen to me for I'm still the one in command
Get flat on the ground here beside me and lay your ear hard to the sand
Can you hear the deafening rumble can you feel the trembling ground
It's not just the horses and wagons that make such a deafening sound
For every shot fired had an echo and every man killed wanted life
There lies your friend Jim McKenney can you take the news to his wife
No son the battle's not over the battle has only begun
The rest of the battle will cover the part that has blackened the sun
The fight yet to come's not with cannon nor will the fight be hand to hand
No one will regroup the forces no charge will a general command
The battle will rage in the bosom of mother and sweetheart and wife
Brother and sister and daughter will grieve for the rest of their lives
Now go ahead rise from your cover be thankful that God let you live
Go fight the rest of the battle for those who gave all they could give
I see sir the battle's not over the battle has only begun
The rest of the battle will cover this part that has blackened the sun
For though there's no sound of the cannon and though there's no smoke in the sky
I'm dropping the gun and the sabre and ready for battle am I


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*It's here!*

Not a happy camper

I'm thinking that anyone that posts less than 4 different views of what they're selling will not get my business!!!!! I accept the blame for not asking, but some of these people are just plain, "Shady!"(only mentioned a broken marker light, but not a missing PIECE!)

Here's the scoop;
1) piece broken of cab(I should be able to fix it)
2) Needs a new plastic center contact plate and shoes
3) Forward marker light broken
4) Reversing unit a mess(contacts okay, but plunger fouled and drum shot) 

I can fix most, if not all, and I guess I shouldn't complain, but................(I will anyway!):laugh::laugh::laugh:

I think I'll start picking up parts(have the drum & fingers & plunger) and save it for a Fall/Winter project

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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Reck,

Ya' got me on that first song ... Johnny Cash. Correction ... a YOUNG Johnny Cash. Excellent. As is the Civil War ballad above ... very, very powerful words. It takes a talented / insightful mind to pen emotion like that.

Jim,

Bummer about the "unforseen hiccups" with the loco. The way I see it, though, the world of model RR'ing has just taken a small step for the better. The more that these old write-off junkers find their way into guys with capable hands like yours, the more that this old / historic stuff will be saved for future generations to enjoy. You may joke and gripe a bit about the work ahead, but years from now your grandkids and their kids will all be smiling, and very thankful that Grandpa treated those old toys with such loving care.

I kinda think thoughts like that as I'm tinkering. We're not saving the world, or anything ... but a few smiles on bright faces years from now certainly can't hurt. 

Re: the details of the 1688 ...

Your pics offer my first look inside one of these plastic motors. Thanks much for the "under the hood" details ... quite helpful to me. So the casing / cheeks of the motor housing simply unbolt, huh? I wasn't sure how much of it was sealed shut. And I see that there's a somewhat-conventional pickup-plate inside the bottom of the motor. I wonder why Lionel shifted to the plastic-housing design back then?

Other than the rear corner of the cab, the loco shell doesn't look too bad at all. Should strip / repaint quite nice.

For your "parts needed list", I'm pretty sure there's a clear lens that should go in the front of the torpedo boiler nose. (The 1668's have one.)

Do keep us posted as you push ahead with this latest project. Smiling kids are waiting!

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Jim----I'd contact the seller and express your displeasure. See if he does anything to make it right. If not, ebay has a feedback thing: use it and burn him! I look at those before I bid, and it makes a difference.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice piece of "junk" ya won.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jim,

If you don't mind, I'm gonna put a couple of key words / phrases below for my future forum searches ... it helps me when I'm looking for stuff down the road ...

Lionel 1688 plastic motor
Lionel 1688 with plastic motor

Thanks,

TJ


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

TJ, the only thing plastic is the center rail pick-up plate!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Stillakid said:


> TJ, the only thing plastic is the center rail pick-up plate!


What?!?!? Ohhhhh! I thought the whole casing was plastic. As I said, I've never done the touchy-feely thing with one of these types of motors before, and have only seen the bottom via photos. Your disected one is a first for me.

So in that regards, I'm thrilled to have learned something else new here.

Thanks!

TJ

EDIT -- So what's the rest of the motor frame, especially in way of the cylindrical and half-cylindrical front and back ends ... cast metal????

And ...

So if I read your pictures right, the motor casting is asymmetrical ... a "cheek" on the gear side, but open-faced on the armature brush side ???


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*More of the 1688 Motor*

TJ, hopefully these pics will help. Other than the Bakelite armature cover and center contact plate, everything else is metallic. The design is simple, and allows for removing the armatureeasily for cleaning. It's also very easy to clean acumulated debris from around the drive wheels and armature.

The wheels spin with little drag and there's no shimmy. Good sign
I think that once I get the replacement drum in the reversing unit, and rewire, she'll "Roar!!!":laugh::laugh: Without the shell, what I did get is worth what I paid for it(motor & reversing unit), so considering all things, I'm happy

When I get to the point of repairing/molding the broken section, that will be the biggest test of my limited skills. I've written up my plan in stages.

1) Repair reversing unit(replace drum, rewire all leads, re-install to motor)
2) Order; Drawbar, Running lights, Headlight Lens, Slide Shoes
3) Remove all Trim-Strip Engine
4) Use "FastSteel" to fashion missing section(I'll use the Dremel to do the "rough" detailing. Then finish it off by hand with some fine files/sandpaper
5) Re-paint unit in Gunmetal Gray
6) Re-install all trim
7) Re-install motor assembly
9) Hope for the best:laugh::laugh:

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## machinejack (May 5, 2010)

Some one has to resurrect the dead.
I would love to have older Lionel steamers. Lionel was such better quality than Marx. I run lots of the older prewar 6" tin Marx with the fat drive wheels so I have to use the older Marx switches. I did rebuild a Lionel 1110 Scout but installed a Marx 333 motor in it, I couldn't get it to go through the Marx switch with the pickup rollers. The Lionel 45 degree crossing that I used will not let the Marx wheels pass. Catch 22 might have to build two layouts.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jim,

Thanks for the updated pics / explanations. It's actually an elagant motor design ... quite different from the "normal" old-school Lionel stuff.

Good work-list plan above.

I've never fiddled with model molding on my end ... you know, the liquid stuff that you buy at the hobby store to pour on an item to make a castable mold. But if you have any interest at all, I'd be happy to give a shot molding that back right section on my 1668 loco shell ... essentially identical you your 1688, I think. Have you ever fiddled with the molding liquid stuff?

Cheers,

TJ


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

TJ, never have! Thanks for the offer
What I was thinking of doing, was to coat the "good side" with some grease, and then press FastSteel on it. I could then just use that as a replacement piece. I know that I'll also have to do quite a bit of sanding and cutting to make it fit, but it's really easy to work with.
Your thoughts?


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

And btw, it's really incredible how closely this motor resembles the American Flyer set up!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Makes sense. Copy the best and follow, like the rest!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Reckers, you never let an opportunity pass you by(unless it's a horse!) LMAO!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

The truth is, Jim, I have no shame. *L* I'll jerk anybody's chain if I can find it.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*1688 Reverse unit slots.........*

Just for "Kicks & Grins", I started the stripping process on the 1688. I remembered all the conversation about converting different models and was surprised by this when I stripped mine.

Not sure if all are like this, but mine has 2 additional slots that are marked on the inside of the boiler. Seems to me, that would make converting easy, given that the correct placement is there. 

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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jim,

Ahhh ... good find on the "ghost slots" in your strip job pics above. If I'm reading the photos correctly, "forward" on the shell is to the LEFT in your photo, correct? If that's true, then the circled "ghost slot" on the right (the rear of the two) would suit the OTHER 1688 type that has the full (traditional) motor. Interesting about the OTHER ghost slot shown in the photo ... it's further forward, but NOT as far forward as where the slot on the 2-6-2 1668 loco would have it.

Your slot (for "plastic" motor e-unit) is much further aft than the ghosts in the pics above (i.e., off to the right margin in the pics), which is 100% consistent with my findings in my "1668 Two Types" thread.

All of this suggests that the guys at Lionel were interchanging components on their tooling and molds for lots of loco shells. Makes perfect sense, I guess.

As to your cab "ladder" repair ...

The ladder is essentially symmetric between the left and right sides, so you certainly could pattern the shape that you need on the right (missing side) from the existing ladder on the left.

One fabrication option might be to build up the base "flat section" of the ladder, first, then after that cures (and is sanded smooth), go back and add the protrusion bits that actually form the ladder perimeter and steps. I don't have my 1668 in front of me, but look at your 1688 to see if those "protrusions" on the ladder could be made (reproduced, really) from glued-on flat-bar stock or round rod ... either available at a local hobby shop maybe.

Whatever route you go, I would suggest that you add a "doubler plate" to the inside of the cab to bridge the joint between your old (existing) cab and the new lower section that you'll build up in way of the ladder. I.e., stiffen it from the back (inside) with as much lapped bond area as possible. Purists might see a bump on the inside of the cab here, but I think you'll be stronger in the long run.

Thanks again for posting the pics of this disected motor. It really is a clever design ... and nothing at all like I thought it might look.

TJ


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Great suggestions TJ!
Thank You


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*Building Up Broken Section.......*

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Considering how thin the area of the cab section is where the break occured, I cut a piece of duct work to fit and be the backing for the FastSteel and to also strengthen the other side. Will patch tomorrow.
(HoneyDo List awaits me!):laugh:

Any input?

Thanks,
Jim


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Looks mighty good, Jim: an inspired solution!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jim,

EXCELLENT IDEA! A backing plate, as suggested, but improved thinking to transfer the load over to the other rigid side. Very, very smart, indeed. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Not to nitpick, but ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the "Mystery Man" who considered working on this loco stipulate that it would be a FALL/WINTER project? Last time I checked the Weather Channel, I didn't see any reports of pumpkin harvests or snow down in Virginia!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Seriously ... you've got a really smart fix in the works. Good thinking!

TJ


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Hey!
It dropped down to 82 today, was certain that winter was here!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Brrrrr ... Works for me!


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Jim,

Nice pick up:thumbsup: Am curious to see how your repair works out


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have never worked with Fast Steel. Hope it works for you. The plan is sound.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Jim,
> 
> EXCELLENT IDEA! A backing plate, as suggested, but improved thinking to transfer the load over to the other rigid side. Very, very smart, indeed. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> ...




TJ, Jim qualifies for endless winter: snow on the roof and no fire in the fireplace!:laugh:


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*Hahahahahah!*

The roof is more like, "Winter Bare" and the fireplace works fine as long as it's fed the proper, "Additive!" :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Maybe paint the loco BLUE ?!? :laugh:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

To let a secret out I am bidding on a 259e junker. Ends in about an hour and listed under o scale other. I was thinking of blue. We will wait and see.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

You're wooing me, aren't you? Another 259E for us forum boys ... Whooo woooo!!!!

TJ


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

T-Man, did you win it?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ, actually I don't want a bidding war. You guys have bought so many the price will probably go up! LOL

Jim, The "Vintage Lionel O Gauge Train Engine Model Rail Road" is mine. I was amazed I even found it. That was the title it was listed by. I was the only bidder. The auction ended an hour after I left for work. It's was someone Grampa's amd is being shipped out of NY. 9.99 plus 10.95 shipping for the record.:thumbsup:

Oh Yeah, copper domes!

Here's the now "famous engine". I guess, I will have to ask the questions now.
From who, and what are the obvious part numbers I need.










6/16 item shipped!!!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob, "What a Steal!!!!"
At that price, even if you have to purchase parts, you'll still be ahead of the curve!
I figure, that she'll be on your lay-out, pulling cars, within a week of you getting your hands on her! 

Jim


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

you guys have gone tin-crazy!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Reckers,
Speaking of "Tin", did you get the parts for that "Tin Tender?"


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I did, Jim----I thought I had messaged you they arrived. If I failed to, I apologize! Thank you so much for sending them. The T&P was my thank-you for your help.

Right now, all my car work is on hold while I muddle with the table. My son has been doing something with all the cars----I'm not quite clear what---as he has taken to organizing the basement as I sleep. I think he's parking everything in the entertainment center. This weekend, I buy and put down the pink foam sheets on the table-top!. Thanks, again, for the tender parts! 




So....the questions begin.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Len, you did thank me. I was talking about the trucks for the tender. If I recall correctly, you still needed them!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

CONGRATS on the 259 ... I'm thrilled! More tinplate boys here on the forum! Funny listing ... you're lucky you found it.

Hard to tell from the small pic, but I think yours is older than mine ... large nickel rims predated the thin nickel rims, I think.

The drive wheels will have another clue, too ... I think the "crank" (???) on the older locos was a separate screwed-on piece from the wheel itself, whereas crank on the later locos was cast integrally with the wheels.

Jeff at Train Tender was helpful in identifying specific parts for 259's of various time / production runs.

Congrats, again ... I'm really happy for you!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Reckers said:


> you guys have gone tin-crazy!


Yup, I even bought S gage, when the price was right.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Stillakid said:


> Len, you did thank me. I was talking about the trucks for the tender. If I recall correctly, you still needed them!


OH! As a matter of fact, I did----got a decent price on a tender and will start swapping parts around to turn my siamese twins into a single unit with spare parts!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Good Len! Now I can stop looking


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*1688 update..........*

Had to set this aside for a while, but woke up at 2AM and said, "WTH!" 

My arthritic fingers can't take to much more of working with tiny pieces. While I'm happy with how it looks at this stage, I would have liked to have made the pieces thinner. I'm hoping that onece the sanding is done, and I've primed/painted, it won't look to bad.

The bottom line for me, "Get It Running And Stop Worrying About The Cosmetics":laugh::laugh::laugh:

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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jim,

I'm really proud of you! Having a similar-shell 1668, I know how small this back step area of the loco cab really is. Your photos don't really put things into true tiny perspective.

The cross-brace internal support is a really clever structural idea, and I'm glad (!) that you followed through with the suggestion to rebuild the damaged area with a flat section and glued on steps/rails. The results are looking fabulous, and when everything is painted a uniform color, I'd imagine the most discerning eyes would never know the repair was there. Your handiwork will be "lost" for the ages ... I suspect that's the best compliment anyone could have!

Nicely done!

TJ


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## Rocky Mountian (May 17, 2010)

When someone way down the road get that train hopefulley a family member and looks at what Great-Great Grandpa did to fix that engine. 

Well just a nice way to be remembered.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Interesting that you used pieces for detail. I would of carved a ladder out with less detail, but more strength. Where do you buy Liquid steel?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Interesting that you used pieces for detail. I would of carved a ladder out with less detail, but more strength. Where do you buy Liquid steel?


Liquid steel has been around for a while T. comes in different names.
Heres one of the original liquid steel.

It's like toothpaste but hardens just like steel. Comes in handy for a bunch of stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-25909-Liquid-Metal-Filler/dp/B000ALDYJI


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Liquid steel has been around for a while T. comes in different names.
> Heres one of the original liquid steel.
> 
> It's like toothpaste but hardens just like steel. Comes in handy for a bunch of stuff.
> ...


"This item is not for sale in Catalina Island." <==== Sissies!


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

T-Man, here's the link to FastSteel;


http://www.polymericsystems.com/epoxies-adhesives/epoxy-putty-sticks/faststeel.htm


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I will keep an eye out for it now. Thanks.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Fast steel is different then Liquid steel. I got some of that to.

Liquid steel is great at filling small indentations or pitted spots, to make them smooth. Hardens like steel.:thumbsup:


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

You're right Ed!
FastSteel is more of a epoxy/putty substance and is thick enough to work(as long as you work quick!)


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