# Looking for scenery advise



## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Hi. I joined the forum a couple of days ago and making my first post (other than introducing myself).

I am tackling scenery on part of my layout. I used foam and wadded newspaper to form the hills, covered with Plaster Cloth and then applied plaster of paris over that. I painted that with acrylic earth colored paint.

I applied Mod Podge (watered down and with detergent) and added Woodland Scenics ground cover. About 24 hrs later I vacuumed the loose ground cover off and found much of it stuck but not in all areas. So, I tried applying Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement with a brush and adding more ground cover.

How long should I wait before removing extra ground cover? 

Should I seal it with Scenic Cement right away or can I wait until I'm ready to add additional layers of ground cover and other scenery?

Thanks for reading!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Are you first 'wetting' the area before applying the scenery material and glue mixture. A simple mix of water and a few drops of dishwashing liquid in a spray bottle will relieve the surface tension of the glue/water mixture. An excellent book for scenery is 'Modeling Realistic Scenery' by Dave Frary. Kalmbach Books. I always reference it. You'll enjoy his methods. Ask questions anytime. Folks here are very helpful .


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks. No, I thought it was not necessary to pre-wet the area with scenic cement. 

I will vacuum the scene tomorrow (or should I wait longer?) and if I still have areas where the ground cover did not stick I will wet the area and try again.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Elmer's Glue all*



spikedrivingblues said:


> Thanks. No, I thought it was not necessary to pre-wet the area with scenic cement.
> 
> I will vacuum the scene tomorrow (or should I wait longer?) and if I still have areas where the ground cover did not stick I will wet the area and try again.


spikedriveingblues;

I use full strength Elmer's Glue All (not the "school glue") painted on the whole surface with a small house paint trimming type brush. Then I sprinkle on the dirt, grass, whatever, and spray it with a mix of mostly water with more Elmer's Glue, and a little alcohol. (aprox. 6parts water 1 part glue, and 1 part alcohol. The alcohol does the same surface tension breakdown as the detergent previously recommended. Either will work, but the alcohol evaporates and leaves nothing behind.
Usually that's all it takes to fasten scenery material down, but for ballast or any scenery spots that need it I'll use a second, or even third spray of the water/glue/alcohol mixture. I let each application dry overnight. Once this is done, the scenery material won't come off with a vacuum cleaner.

Hope that helps you; 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I paint a base layer of undiluted matte medium onto the layout area, sprinkle on ground cover, and let it dry. And i mean dry. 2 hrs or 24; whatever it takes. This base layer provides "tooth" to help things stick. I work in 2x2 areas for this, so that the matte medium doesn't dry before I can add ground cover.

Next, I mist with dilute alcohol (35%), add more ground cover, mist with alcohol again, then mist with dilute matte medium. 99% of what I out down sticks. After this is fully dry (a day or so), I vacuum and touch up any areas that need it.

The takeaway, though, is that there is not just one way to do this. Experiment until you find what works best for you.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The members advice for laying in your landscaping is all
right down the line. 

I go one step further, and it may be what you need
to do. After you are satisfied with your work use
a clear rattle can spray over it. Some have used
hair spray (without the perfume). That will lock in
any stray pieces. Be sure to cover all of your rails
to preserve electrical conductivity. Hold the can
above your work and let the spray 'rain down' so
it doesn't dislodge anything.

Don


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to help me out. I sincerely appreciate the input.

I will have another go at it and post here again to let you know what I ended up doing and how it worked for me.

Thanks again, guys!


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks again, guys. I ended up pre wetting the area with water and detergent (because I had that stuff on hand) in a spray bottle. I also bought a second spray bottle to apply the scenic cement. So far So good!!


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks for all the help with my ground cover problem. Everything seems pretty good. Next step brings my next question :laugh:

I added Woodland Scenics deep pour clear water tinted with "Murky". Although I believe I followed the directions accurately, the water did not come out very murky but still relatively clear.

The instructions propose a fix for this problem but requires more product and must be done immediately. Unfortunately I used about the whole amount on the first pour. I'm wondering if I can add another 1/2" of product with more tint on top of the first pour after it has cured.

Any thoughts or other solutions?

Thanks all


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Glad it's working out for you now. the more you do, the more ideas you'll get. Like adding weeds and old broken tree limbs and boards. It really tickles your creativity!


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Patrick, funny you should say tree limbs. I've already bought a package of dead fall. I figure after trees are in I can use a dab of scenic glue to hold broken limbs in place at the bottom of some trees.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

spikedrivingblues said:


> Thanks for all the help with my ground cover problem. Everything seems pretty good. Next step brings my next question :laugh:
> 
> I added Woodland Scenics deep pour clear water tinted with "Murky". Although I believe I followed the directions accurately, the water did not come out very murky but still relatively clear.
> 
> ...


Actually, I wouldn't have used that product. Deep pour water is for modeling dioramas and museum type scenes where you want to suggest murkiness in your water, but still be able to see details through it.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way to salvage your current situation, short of a RIP out and do over. Don't worry about it -- most of us have had to redo water a few times.
If you want to stick with the WS products, try their Realistic Water and Water Tint products. You achieve the illusion of depth by painting the bottom of your water feature area, not by making deep pours of resin.. As you've no doubt noticed, WS stuff -- especially the Deep Pour water, is really expensive.

I have had much more success using acrylic gloss medium instead. Paint the bottom -- black in the center, and fade into light browns toward the edges. Add acrylic paint to the medium (since it's intended to be a paint mixer, any acrylic paint will work fine) and then pour about 1/8" of the tinted gloss medium over your painted area. If you want surface details (ripples, eaves, etc.) add these using acrylic gloss gel (tinted with white paint, if desired) after the base layer is dry.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Well, that isn't what I wanted to hear :laugh:. However, I do appreciate the advice. I'm not sure when I'll tackle doing it over but I'll let you know how I made out. 

Any advice on the best way to remove the water leaving as much of the surrounding scenery intact?

Thanks


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

spikedrivingblues said:


> Well, that isn't what I wanted to hear :laugh:. However, I do appreciate the advice. I'm not sure when I'll tackle doing it over but I'll let you know how I made out.
> 
> Any advice on the best way to remove the water leaving as much of the surrounding scenery intact?
> 
> Thanks


Just hack it out. If you find the scenery coming with it, make additional cuts as necessary. It's actually pretty easy to repair scenery, and you're going to waste a lot more time trying to surgically remove things than you are by just repairing the damage caused.

One thing to remember here: it's easier to get advice on how to BEFORE you jump in and do something. Woodland Scenics is a good company, and they make a lot of nice products, but just remember that they are a profit generating marketing machine. All of their instructional videos, how-to guides etc., are out there to make things look easy and to sell THEIR products. There are often much better, and often easier, and especially cheaper, ways to do things than the Woodland Scenics way.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> Just hack it out. If you find the scenery coming with it, make additional cuts as necessary. It's actually pretty easy to repair scenery, and you're going to waste a lot more time trying to surgically remove things than you are by just repairing the damage caused.
> 
> One thing to remember here: it's easier to get advice on how to BEFORE you jump in and do something. Woodland Scenics is a good company, and they make a lot of nice products, but just remember that they are a profit generating marketing machine. All of their instructional videos, how-to guides etc., are out there to make things look easy and to sell THEIR products. There are often much better, and often easier, and especially cheaper, ways to do things than the Woodland Scenics way.


Thanks again for the advice. However your suggestion that I just "jumped in" is an unwarranted assumption. Because this hobby is new to me I do at least some research on everything I do including this project. Just because it didn't come out as well as I hoped is not evidence that I gave it little or no forethought. 

Contrary to your claim that the product is not meant for the purpose which I used it, I've seen videos online of other modelers who have used this product as I have and they had good results in my opinion.

I sincerely appreciate the help but please provide any advice in the future without implying anything about me that you do not know to be true.

Thanks


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Spike ,
Great idea with the limbs. You can even drop a few 'dead ' ones into a small stream or creek. Waters another interesting feature also.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Patrick1544 said:


> Spike ,
> Great idea with the limbs. You can even drop a few 'dead ' ones into a small stream or creek. Waters another interesting feature also.


Thanks, Patrick. Happy Holidays!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

spikedrivingblues said:


> Thanks again for the advice. However your suggestion that I just "jumped in" is an unwarranted assumption. Because this hobby is new to me I do at least some research on everything I do including this project. Just because it didn't come out as well as I hoped is not evidence that I gave it little or no forethought.
> 
> Contrary to your claim that the product is not meant for the purpose which I used it, I've seen videos online of other modelers who have used this product as I have and they had good results in my opinion.
> 
> ...


That was actually meant as a warning against the Woodland Scenics marketing machine, not a personal insult. I'm sorry it came off that way (and I agree that it did -- my fault).

Trying to restate what I meant about research: The thing about this hobby is that there are many things that WILL work, with more or less degrees of success. It's usually a good idea to look at several alternatives before deciding on one. Many of the on-line videos you see are actually produced by manufacturers to sell product. That's why caution is needed.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> That was actually meant as a warning against the Woodland Scenics marketing machine, not a personal insult. I'm sorry it came off that way (and I agree that it did -- my fault).
> 
> Trying to restate what I meant about research: The thing about this hobby is that there are many things that WILL work, with more or less degrees of success. It's usually a good idea to look at several alternatives before deciding on one. Many of the on-line videos you see are actually produced by manufacturers to sell product. That's why caution is needed.


Hi, CTVRR. Thank you for clarifying your post. I'm sorry I misunderstood. 

I understand better now what you were trying to say. Don't worry about me just buying products from WS or any other manufacturer because I'm on a budget as I suspect many of us are  As a matter of fact two of my three bridges on the layout are scratch built and the other is a pretty cheap Atlas bridge which was unsightly until I painted it to try to achieve a steel with surface rust look (I think it came out alright for a newbie ). 

However, you probably know many of us (especially beginners) are intimidated by modeling water so I did break down and buy the WS water product. I liked the idea that you could pour it to any depth (over time) to submerge scenic details beneath the water. 

I mentioned my willingness to try scratch building and improving less expensive products because I don't think you're going to like my solution to my water problem :laugh:. The only thing I didn't like about the first pour was the color. The instructions indicate that one can add more layers of product to achieve more depth so I decided to give WS another $30 and pour a layer of murky water over the pour I was unsatisfied with. I figured if this worked it would save me from ripping out the original water. 

I am actually thrilled with the immediate results. I'll see how it holds up over time, perhaps I'll end up ripping it out in the future. I have no pictures at present but I can upload some if your curious.

For beginners like me, no amount of research and questions can be tantamount to rolling up the sleeves and giving it a go...and sometimes things end up in the trash :laugh:

Thanks again for your help and I look forward to hearing from you again as I am sure to have more questions!

Happy Holidays to you and yours


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