# MTF Soap Box



## Guest (Feb 22, 2017)

I received a call last night from a good friend who is also active on the MTF. My friend is a big O-Gauge enthusiast and he follows this forum daily. He is also promoting us at every opportunity as one with the friendliest forum environments. He was doing his promotion “thing” over the weekend with a friend and asked him if he had considered joining the MTF. He was rather shocked at his answer. His friend told him that he would love to join and participate on the MTF, but did not because he was afraid of being ostracized. Apparently, this guy is active in an O-Gauge train club and the MTF has been the subject of conversation. His friend said that he was not alone in his concerns about MTF membership being considered as some kind of a stigma. Was this individual’s comments a surprise to me, not, as I have heard the same pathetic story from individuals and O-Gauge vendors when I have talked to about MTF membership.

Grown up people and O-Gauge related businesses afraid to participate in the MTF out of fear of being ostracized, WOW. Could there possibly be a parallel? We are also part of a much broader arena, and fortunately most us, refuse to be intimidated by those who may have a different opinion. I think that is why so many of us take our MTF membership very seriously and are proud to be a part of it.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I've run into that before. Doesn't bother me. Why would I want to be part of any organization, train club or whatever, that acted like that? 

They world is full of small, petty people. I try to avoid them and in cases like this they help me out with that.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

O-gauge, HO-gauge, or schmo-gauge.....there's just no room for folks who think they're better than others, for any reason. 
MTF has been "home" for over 6 years and, with VERY rare exception, everyone I've come into contact with is also someone who I wouldn't hesitate to invite to my home for dinner. 
It's a sorry state of affairs when a person can't join a group for fear of being ostracized.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

I can only define this stigma as *ridiculous*.

Why don't the potential "new" members monitor this forum for a week or so and then decide if they want to join? They will see for themselves that this place is warm and friendly, tons of knowledge shared freely and we also have a great sense of :laugh: humor.

If they choose not to join... it is their loss.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

We're model railroaders, we may not all be on the same "scale", but we buy, collect, build, and run trains and layouts. 
We also discuss and share our knowledge, and always receive help when we ask for it. We are not sponsored by any manufacturers of our Hobby, so we can discuss and share both the good and shortfalls of a product, not to criticize, rather help the manufacturers build a product that will help create more interest that lead to increase sales. Both good for the consumer and builders.
Now, what's the problem with MTF? Why can't we all get along without fear of being "ostracized", just because we're on another Forum, same subject, interest, and fellowship.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Reminds me of a Groucho Marx story when a country club asked him to join. He said that he would never join any club that would have him as a member.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Who cares. Sounds like the feeling some of my friends have mentioned when long term acquaintances no longer speak to them because of how they voted? The new American way.

I take pride in knowing that I am part of another group that is good enough to be noticed and ostracized. But mainly, "Who the heck cares?"

I don't have time for that kind of stuff. Intimidation... over trains. Really? This seems to be a pretty independent and successful group of people who feel the same way and go way out of their way to help other members and be polite.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2017)

*"Why don't the potential "new" members monitor this forum for a week or so and then decide if they want to join? They will see for themselves that this place is warm and friendly, tons of knowledge shared freely and we also have a great sense of humor.

If they choose not to join... it is their loss"*

My guess Jim is these individuals lack the courage to make a stand. We could give them a free banana split every day with many different flavors and they would still turn their cheek in a different direction. Because of this, there is no way to realistically reach them.

I also agree with you that it is there loss. I started this thread because it just strikes me at the number of gutless folks out there where it is more important to them to be just one of the crowd (who likes only plain vanilla ice cream). Hope they all like our new MTF Ice Cream Shop.  But I don't think there is much of a chance to see one of these beauties on their layouts.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When other folks make stupid decisions for the wrong reasons, I don't normally try to change their minds. I dislike tilting at windmills, that's usually what results trying to change an attitude like this.


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## daschnoz (Dec 12, 2016)

DISCLAIMER: Not trying to get political, simply an example.

There used to be (and still is to a slighter extent) a similar mindset in the firearms world.

Constant discussions (sometimes heated) over things like:

30 cal (308WIN/7.62NATO) vs 22 cal (223REM/5.56NATO)
9mm vs 45
AK vs AR
Glock vs anything made of metal
semi-auto pistol vs wheel gun
etc.....

People would take sides and shut out those who didn't share their views and opinions.

That was 8+ years ago. From Jan. 2009 to Jan. 2017 the USA had a president who did everything in his power to try to enact firearms restrictions. This threat to our firearms freedom solidified the firearms community and our petty squabbles over stupid things were quickly forgotten about. Talk in the gun store turned from which gun you like and why to the happenings in the political arena at all levels of government.

Now, I'm not saying that President Trump is going to try and shut down model railroading in the USA, but sometimes it takes something like the example above before people realize what is truly important.

Which internet forum you choose to post on doesn't even make my list of "important things".


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We used to have some really "spirited" discussions in various firearms forums about all those topics.  Now we can do the same thing with trains and train forums.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2017)

Things have a way of settling out. Let's see what happens in a few months on the other side of the wall when current ownership says they are going away. Some of the hard liners may just want to get a ladder.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Brian, I think you have to just let the dust settle a bit. Sure, it's no fun to hear these wimpy excuses. Because that's basically what they are. People fearing that they'll be "ostracized" by some established organization like they're being disloyal is a bunch of BS. Some of these folks need to grow a back-bone.

I agree with GRJ. Sometimes, we can't change the way others think. All we can do is create a valuable environment here for members to share information and learn. Those who see the value in that will join. Those who don't are only shorting themselves.

David


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Maybe they had a bad experience on another forum. People have a tendency to group things together i.e. if it's bad here it's bad everywhere. Or someone is trying spread rumors about MTF because they don't like the fact that we get along and have adult conversations with a bit of adolescence to make it fun.

I was actually warned not to post here to beware of the people, but I like to find things out for myself and have not regretted it one bit.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

I shared my good experience with MTF with my friends, and have yet to hear anything really negative about MTF, many have never heard of MTF, I hadn't until Train-Diesel shared it with me. 

I did hear from a few friends that they heard that MTF was populated with people thrown out of the OGR Forum, and all they do is sit around and complain about OGR. My response to them is that is not what I have found, and you ought to try MTF, it's a nice group, you can talk about anything within reason, and its lightly moderated, I also mentioned the speaker based dinner at York, and how much fun it was and informative. And some have joined.

Another response I got from one guy was "I already belong to OGR". I said "yeah, me too, you can belong to more than one forum, doesn't have to be one or the other. Can we have too many forums and people to talk trains with, why limit yourself?" They joined too.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Craignor said:


> I did hear from a few friends that they heard that MTF was populated with people thrown out of the OGR Forum,


Now that's a coincidence. When I first came here, and started to get a feel of the fellowship and warmth here, I was still going back and forth to OGR. When I finally made a post about what I thought was wrong with OGR and its high rate of closing post and discussions if it in anyway put any of its advertisers in a bad light, when the discussions were of value, and why I was leaving and could be found at MTF if anyone was interested. (Post lasted about 15 minutes before being pulled)
I received several E-Mails saying MTF was a struggling forum with no real talent mostly HO scale, and that people banned from OGR came here to hang out and I should reconsider.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

For awhile I heard the OGR moderator was shooting emails out to OGR regulars he saw posting on MTF, don't know if that's still going on or not.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Wow, It's hard to believe that some people think like this. Then again, after witnessing everything that has gone on during the election campaign and even now, I do get it. 
I belong to several forums, including OGR. Never had a problem, and was never threatened or criticized. If I come across a topic that has negativity, I bypass it. I have made a lot of friends from all the forums I belong to, some I have met, and others seem as if I've known them all my life. EVERY forum has something to offer, but I also have to be careful as to how much time I spend on the internet, as my wife makes it known in no uncertain terms!
I wish I would have found this forum a lot sooner then I did. At least it's not a secret!
Don


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Don F said:


> Wow, It's hard to believe that some people think like this. Then again, after witnessing everything that has gone on during the election campaign and even now, I do get it.
> I belong to several forums, including OGR. Never had a problem, and was never threatened or criticized. If I come across a topic that has negativity, I bypass it. I have made a lot of friends from all the forums I belong to, some I have met, and others seem as if I've known them all my life. EVERY forum has something to offer, but I also have to be careful as to how much time I spend on the internet, as my wife makes it known in no uncertain terms!
> I wish I would have found this forum a lot sooner then I did. At least it's not a secret!
> Don


More people than you think are like this Don. Some of them hide it. People can be very petty. It's not just train forums, it's everywhere. Back when I talked on the CB radio a friend of mine was ostracized for no good reason. A lot of the CBer's from that channel still don't like him, but he's my friend. To this day he is still a very good friend and is now a ordained minister who fights tooth and nail for the homeless especially homeless veterans.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2017)

When it comes to Social Groups, especially those centered with a common hobby or sport, the one's that are *Inclusive* and sincere in purpose are the one's that grow and last. 

Some groups may even start that way but change course when they are confronted with their own success. Realizing their own influence, they become* Exclusionary* and the focus can quickly change to monetary gain and soon all the sincerity of the common past time is gone. It never goes back to the original purpose and the groups falls in on itself like a dying Star.

MTF is Inclusive. We are MTF. You are MTF. and, I am MTF.

I am not something else. 

Emile


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*MTF*

Hi,all.. Just can`t pass this thread up. I agree 150% with this thread. You all know that in any group of people,there is about 5% or more that are eggheads. I`m older than most on here and been in a lot of groups. They are the same. I believe if they are ignored[the troublemakers] They just leave. MTF has been good for me. I`ve been helped by quite a few. Hopefully i have contributed something useful some. I`ve never heard anything bad about MTF.
I generally have something train related with me when I go sell. I see upwards of 10 to 200 hundred people a lot of weeks. The men,women will look at you and the first thing they say. "That reminds of my childhood. I had a train like that or my dad did. A good chance to promote the MTF,which I do.

We[all of us] can do as much or more in keeping this MTF alive and well than the owner or moderators can. They do a good job. If the eggheads don`t get a answer then the post will die.There is women,young people on here and they deserve a chance to learn trains. Lets help them learn.


Good weekend coming up,enjoy it.Everett/sanepilot the best to all


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## JohnJr (Dec 2, 2015)

I like this forum because I get away from the everyday world and enjoy a shared passion. 
Daschnon: you stated "I'm not trying to get political", and then you went political!. (I don't agree with your position on Obama and feel our current POTUS is mentally unstable). If we don't stick with our shared passion and leave politics out of it, I will continue to speak out. I would much rather discuss the wonder and specialness of track and train. I don't want to have to leave yet another train forum.
JohnJr


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

_"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him join a train forum"_

People can be funny with their attitudes towards certain things. All you can do is present the information and let them do the rest. Some people don't like playing on the internet. I belong to a round robin train club with 32 members and I don't think any of them even heard of internet train forums, and if they did they have no interest in spite of my prodding. 

I truly believe that a lot of train folks confuse MTF with MTJ (Model Train JOURNAL), which had the reputation, justly or unjustly, of having members who were disgruntled ex OGR forum members and threads could sometimes get salty. 

I participate both here and OGR forums and have many friends from both forums, some who also participate in both. I haven't met with any problems for it, and if I did it wouldn't matter to me what they say or think. I'm here for the trains and the people and the learning and sharing of the hobby. I just LOVE model trains!!!


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Agree with you Brian. This is about fun, making friends, and enjoying the hobby. It is a place to leave all the other junk behind. Like what I read above.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Back before the election (especially the year running up to the big day), there were a number of bitter confrontations regarding differing points of view relative to the candidates and their respective platforms. This may have created what some felt to be a form of ostracization. An outsider, looking in, could have been scared off by the heated rhetoric of those days. The days of those heated discussions have ceased to be, and, currently there is relative calm over at the Union Station.

I find this place a friendly place, and although I am not a wealth of train knowledge, I do feel welcome, for the most part, by many of the members.


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## cchancey (Aug 27, 2015)

I know for a fact that this MTF is monitored on an ongoing basis by one of the other forum's managers to keep an eye out for anyone who is on the their forum and has joined the MTF. He is looking for people who make any type of what he considers to be negative comment(s) about the other forum. He then makes a decision to either send an email or post on Facebook, yet, his disdain for the person, and tells the person the latter and reasons for expressing his disdain. The content and tone of the delivered message is very intimidating and makes it very clear that you are no longer welcome on the other forum. So, you have the choice to either be intimidated and get in line with many other folks who have experienced the same forms of intimidating communication(s) and abandon the MTF ship to appease the manager of the other forum. I have personally experienced all of the latter just for expressing my disdain on the MTF about the very politically motivated oversight and management of the other forum and the politics these managers play with a small group of the other forum's members being invited into their inner circlewho can do no wrong and are treated much differently than the "common" members of the other forum. Let me share just one example of a personal experience that I unfortunately had to endure because of where I was and my close proximity to this person who is most definitely in the other forum's inner circle. This person made a post one day making numerous negative and derogatory and berating comments about a vendor who also happens to be a member of the other forum and also pays his hard earned money to advertise in the other forum's magazine each month. This post should have been expeditiously, and within minutes, been deleted by one or more of the other forum's moderators who closely watch and scrutinize every post on a 24/7/52 basis. However, when the moderators saw who made the post and that this person was in their inner circle, they allowed this post to remain active for about 6 or so hours before one of the other forum's managers was forced to delete it. Now here is the kicker. This inner circle person received a call at around the 6 hour mark from the other forum's manager who stated that the vendor had seen the derogatory post and that it was left on the other forum for so long without a moderator deleting it asap after it was posted, and demanded that it immediately be deleted. The other forum's manager apologized numerous times to the inner circle person for first bothering him and second having to advise him about the vendor's "angry" call to him and the fact that he now had to delete the derogatory post because of the fact that the vendor advertised in their magazine and was also a member of the other forum. The manager ASKED the inner circle person if it would be alright to delete his post and that he did not want to offend him an any way by doing so. The inner circle person told the manager that he had no problem with his derogatory post being deleted since it had remained posted for half the day for other members to see. The manager THANKED the inner circle person and told him that after their call he would allow the derogatory post to remain posted for another half hour or so before deleting it so that it would continue to be seen. The inner circle person thanked him and their call ended.

Well, as Paul Harvey always stated when he concluded his broadcast: "and now you know the rest of the story".


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

I am who I am and nothing more. 

I come here to enjoy points of view from all walks of life. I enjoy toy trains and learning how to do certain techniques on operation and wiring, and fixing etc. Also I have made wonderful friends here and enjoy speaking with them on line and in person. As far as people in inner circles, The only Inner Circle I know of is in Punxatawnny Pa. Home of PHIL the ground hog, and he is very wrong this year.

Enjoy your trains GUYZ and forget the little stuff.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

It seems that we model railroaders are ostracized enough by the general public, because of our hobby. 

When I watched an episode of _The Big Bang_ a few years back, the dialog went something like, "No, I have no desire to visit a model train shop or it's heartbreaking clientele." (Or something to that effect.)

When I heard this, I thought "heartbreaking clientele?" I think it's heartbreaking that more people don't participate in our hobby which is fun and enjoyable. Plus, you learn things along the way.

That's why it's pathetic to me that seemingly many of our small-minded hobbyists are "forum prejudiced." We have enough trouble with the general public viewing our hobby the way it does and certainly don't need people within our hobby acting so childish regarding their preferred model train forums.

I'm just happy to be here and wish more of our hobbyists would see the light.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

As title says, MTF Soapbox. Some thoughts I've had what makes this Forum so above any other.
The people, above and beyond.

When a question is asked, there are many that jump in to give help and advise. A newbie, or old timer isn't immediately answered with a "look it up on search" quip Be surprised how many are unaware of this tool. To be honest, I hated it on OGR Forum, one had to wade through a ton of stuff before, or even finding what one wanted an answer to.

There are talented people here who could make a small sum in holding classes or writing books on their knowledge, but instead freely share it.

I can get honest answers to questions on any new products here, faults and likes, above what the manufacturer shows us in their catalogs as expectations.

We may not be the biggest Forum on the Hobby, but we have the biggest hearts, and share our enjoyment(s).

Also kudos to those advertises that do drop in and let us know about their new offerings.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2017)

*"I heard the OGR moderator was shooting emails out to OGR regulars he saw posting on MTF"*

I know first hand that this was/is common practice. This type of browbeating is pathetic. It speaks volumes as to who they are.

Fortunately, we welcome all and don't give a hoot where our members may be active elsewhere. Who really wants to get down to that level.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *"I heard the OGR moderator was shooting emails out to OGR regulars he saw posting on MTF"*
> 
> I know first hand that this was/is common practice. This type of browbeating is pathetic. ...


Aw gee.... now I feel neglected and unloved!!!  I never got any of those arm-twisting emails! Then again, I guess they knew it was gonna fall on deaf ears anyway. 

David


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Time to move on guys, we're the positive forum, remember?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2017)

I agree John, but it is important for our members to know just how good we all have it. The issue I have pointed out is proof positive of this.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I know Brian, but we're really beating a dead horse here.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Being independent has always been a big plus for this forum. I chose well and have never regretted it..


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

:appl:


T-Man said:


> Being independent has always been a big plus for this forum. I chose well and have never regretted it..


Remember back in 2008 when you joined T man?
I joined about a year after you did.If we had 50 members sign on in a day that was good, and if out of those 50 if 15 actually posted that was great too. 
You were the reason that a lot (and me) have joined and stayed.

Your T Man, epoxy, MacGyver fix it threads interested me and a lot of others. They still do. 
Though I am still waiting for that monster, Frankenstein-ed up, epoxied up, 40 wheel locomotive to be made. 
Or wait did you do one and I forgot? 
And you kept posting more and more fixes even when no one replied.
And just your general knowledge of the O scale trains was immense.

You deserve a lot of credit for that, and for making the site keep on rolling. Thank you T Man, :smilie_daumenpos:

I joined OGR a long time ago, I hardy ever posted over there.
The few posts I posted disappeared to the unknown.
I must have posted the wrong thing even though I didn't put anyone or anything down someone must not have liked it?

Plus the MTF has ALL scales discussed, not just O.
Now with all the knowledgeable folks that came over from "there" the forum is all the more better.
Plus all the other scales/gauges discussed all the more the better.

Union Station back to what it was intended for is nice too.
A lot of heated, nasty "discussions" were eliminated now. 
Promoting peace and harmony to a TRAIN forum.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

First let me say that my most used forum is Model Train Journal. My second, which I found sometime later is MTF. Posters on MTJ were at one time referred to as "Outcasts" by posters on a forum run by a magazine in Ohio. Honestly, I don't care what people think of me. I have enjoyed taking part on MTJ and MTF. Nuff said.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks Ed!

It is good to see you posting!

Recently I have upgraded to a new PC but I lost control of my photobucket account. 

I'll try to post something soon.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Recently I have upgraded to a new PC but I lost control of my photobucket account.


A rogue Photobucket account, that's a new one. 

I'm glad to see Ed back as well, and I'm also glad that the nonsense in Union Station is in the past, it's been way more peaceful around here lately.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

This is a great forum, no flaming of posters or threads that you see on a couple other forums.

Bill


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

Consider this, Many of us who left OGR because of personal issues over their, are coming here because of how everyone here makes you feel like home. I am the only person in my Train club on this forum and they think I'm crazy being apart of 2 Model Train forums.

However the fact is that if you want help with a problem you have you ask both forums and see which person you like as a response and how they treat you. That is why like many of you, I come over and spend more time here on this forum than the other forum.

This forum has a nice community of petiole which other forums don't have anymore. Thank you for those who make this forum enjoyable for everyone who contributes to this forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2017)

Tim, we sure are glad that you are here and we welcome all so long as they come to us with a "civil" attitude. Leave the *bad baggage* elsewhere.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I received a call last night from a good friend who is also active on the MTF. My friend is a big O-Gauge enthusiast and he follows this forum daily. He is also promoting us at every opportunity as one with the friendliest forum environments. He was doing his promotion “thing” over the weekend with a friend and asked him if he had considered joining the MTF. He was rather shocked at his answer. His friend told him that he would love to join and participate on the MTF, but did not because he was afraid of being ostracized. Apparently, this guy is active in an O-Gauge train club and the MTF has been the subject of conversation. His friend said that he was not alone in his concerns about MTF membership being considered as some kind of a stigma. Was this individual’s comments a surprise to me, not, as I have heard the same pathetic story from individuals and O-Gauge vendors when I have talked to about MTF membership.
> 
> Grown up people and O-Gauge related businesses afraid to participate in the MTF out of fear of being ostracized, WOW. Could there possibly be a parallel? We are also part of a much broader arena, and fortunately most us, refuse to be intimidated by those who may have a different opinion. I think that is why so many of us take our MTF membership very seriously and are proud to be a part of it.



Adults not reading or posting on a particular model railroad forum because they are afraid of being ostracized or stigmacized!!!!!????Are you kidding me!!! Now I've heard everything..


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

One of my club members told me he was told that all we do is complain about other forums and we are mostly HO (like that's a bad thing). People will make up things when they don't have the facts or turn it around to make sound worse than it is.

We are a multi scale forum and discuss things without it turning into a verbal war. I think is just chaps their hides.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Genetk44 said:


> Adults not reading or posting on a particular model railroad forum because they are afraid of being ostracized or stigmacized!!!!!????Are you kidding me!!! Now I've heard everything..


I've been ostracized and stigmatized by better people than that.


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