# Lionel 022 Switch



## T-Man

The switch, notice to the right the slide did not go all the way to the right. When operating the bar on the left or right provides a connection. A simple way to test (off the track)the switch is to place the center rail contact from the transformer to the power post and use the u contact to each outer terminal on the switch. This grounds the coil to activate the switch one outer terminal one direction.


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## T-Man

*The controller*

To control the switch three wires are needed .One for each post. The controller swictch just grounds one outer post to the center post. 

NEAT TRICK is to eliminate the center post connection.
Why run a wire all the way back to the switch??
Have all your controllers lined up and the center post wires connected together and attached to the U terminal. The controllers are probably next to your transformer anyway.

The switches will work better with the shorter ground.

I found the complete parts lists for the switch in the Lionel Supplementals 1-9 page 471 by adobe reader.


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## T-Man

*Time to revive Bats*

Actually not bats but the basses to the switches. It takes an 1/8 nutdriver to remove a couple of sheet metal screws to access the underside. That way I removed the rails for cleaning. This is extreme but the rust was bad. SO far I have on good motor out of three. One is broken at the lamp base the other is missing a switch connector. 

The next picture is a cleaned piece, big difference.










Here is a starter waiting for cleaning.









The easiest way to test the motor coils is by using two leads. Connect one to the center red and one to a green to test. There are two, one for each direction. The rivet to the left between the green and red, is the feed from the track. The wire from the red, to the right is for the lamp.


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## T-Man

Rewired today. Struck while the iron was hot. The motor didn't test out, I have to check some connections. The coils work but I think the problem is in the slide connections.
I didn't finish the eunit today.











Here is an idea, how you can improve with just a little paint.


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## T-Man

The green arrow shows two sets of tabs. The left is for auto derailing and remains insulated from the rest. The bar gets soldered to the left. I checked these for continuity before installling the cover. One wire is replaced.











The copper piece is an insert conecting the two outer rails.


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## T-Man

*Motor Test*

I had one bad terminal and replaced it with a 4 -4- screw. I do not have any 4-36 screws.
I saved the plastic with super glue.

Next is the spring adjust If you have to touch the spring to make it work,instead of trying to make the spring work harder by bending. I went underneath and pushed the plate up for contact.










Of course to test, power to the center and the second touches a terminal to operate.


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## T-Man

I am busy cleaning switches. Not much excitement. Out of 7 in a box. One was a manual right. Another had no motor. I can get 4 motors working. One had a broken terminal that was replaced. The lamp swivel was missing a tooth and was removed. This switch will work without it. One motor was missing a copper spring connector that needs a rivet to replace. Non fixable at this time. So I can get four working. I am cleaning all of them and will keep an eye out for motors and parts. SO far after cleaning 15 switches I have yet to find one with a bad coil.

My process for the rusty ones

Remove screws, motor and back plate. clean and dry lub fasteners.

Motor:
Inspect for missing pieces Be sure not to loose the tiny spring required for the lock bar!!!
sand and paint underside.
remove wires including bulb wire
clean the plate
dry lube the plate(prevent rusting)(remember graphite conducts electricity) DO not use on coils or on the insulating paper under the slide contacts.
mod podge the paper on the coils
Clean electrical connections on the slide
test coils
add wires
test motor

switch:
unsolder joints remove wire
remove rails
Wire brush rails
scrub frog and a contact bar on switch
soapy water wash switch
remove rust on bottom contacts
assemble rails
solder joints and add new wire
Add paper to insulate contacts from the bottom plate with date serviced.
add bottom plate after sanding and painting
assemble whole switch and test. Add pins.


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## Stillakid

T-Man, tell us the truth, what do you do in your, "Spare Time?"
I don't think I have the patience to do that kind of intricate work(much less the memory!)


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## Stillakid

By The way, "Nice Job!!!!"


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## T-Man

It's easy after 3 or 4. I refer to the manual occasionally. These are the worst I have seen. The ebays( first time) were listed as junk, and I didn't have to take one apart. Beats paying 30 for each one. I guess this is one area where to draw the line and ask is it worth it? To me ,it is, just to prove it can be done.


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## theedudenator

How are you cleaning the rails?
What type of wire brush should I get?


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## T-Man

A wire brush mounted on a motor is heavy duty . A wire wheel will work with track. Because of the plastic I removed the rails and did them piecemeal. A good grip is required. The safer way is to use scotchbrite pads or a dremel wire wheel.Dremel also makes a stripping wheel of scotchbrite that may work too because of it's size.

This is my antique. I use only with severe rust. This brush was only a dollar at big lots. It has cleaned about 5 switches so far.


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## tjcruiser

And leather gloves, and goggles, right ...

I used a brass brush wheel mounted in my drill press to clean some track, recently. Worked nice on the outer layer of heavy rust. But leather gloves for a strong grip and goggles to keep my peepers safe seemed like a must.


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## RichT

Goggles yes.... those flying wires will really do some damage.... and wear shot sleeves and take off the tie  

I use a flip down face shield.... since I got a wire into my forehead once...

T-man, Wow that is a serious tool ya got there.... rust doesn't stand a chance


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## T-Man

I like it because I can slow it with pressure. It can grab and fling. I am currently revampiing it.










I bet I could pull some cars with a 120 v motor!!!!!!!!! 1/50 hp.


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## T-Man

*Another bit*

I did locate a manual switch lever for an 042 manual switch. I thought I would share in it's complexity.


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## T-Man

*Motor after cleaning*

The motor after I cleaned it, painted the exterior and changed the plug. I also oiled the board too.


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## Big Ed

You ought to put this on a DVD/CD and market it along with all your other fix-it threads!:thumbsup:

Or a book? (manual)
Got to have lots of color pictures. Everyone loves pictures along with an explained detailed description. 

THE T_MAN SUPER DUPER REPAIR manual/plus.

Now the big question?

Where you going to put all of the switches?:laugh:

Plus it's one thing getting them all in tip top shape, but with old switches the important thing is how do they operate with a train running through them. I have some issues with certain things running through some of mine. Nothing like a nice new switch. I just wish they weren't that darn expensive!

Heck I would bet your book would be better then some of the Classic Toy Train manuals that they put out! Did you ever see some of them?:thumbsdown:

I will be your marketing agent.

I like the old manual switches. I got a few some where.

I want to add I am no way putting down your work, those babies look like new considering how they looked in the first place.:thumbsup:

I will send you a box to do for me.:laugh:


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

VERY nice job on that motor. My memory's a bit fuzzy here, but that armature and windings looks very similar to the motor that's in our old Electrolux vacuum cleaner! The thing's ancient, and runs like a charm!

Nice springs in the switch lever ... high tech, huh?!? 

Big Ed ... per your comment ...



big ed said:


> I have some issues with certain things running through some of mine. Nothing like a nice new switch.


I have "issues", too ... but with relatively NEW Lionel manual switches. I had just posted this comment on another thread, but I'll repeat it here, if that's OK ...

"I've just begun running my old Lionel locos (1668 prewar, 221 postwar) on relatively new Lionel manual switches ... the brown kind ... I can't remember the part number right now. Both of these locos are having problems running over the switches. The trailing trucks appear to be making electric contact with both the center (hot) rail and the outer (ground) rail as they drive over the middle section of the switch, where things split left/right. It causes a short, which makes the "smart" transformer drop voltage, which -- in turn -- makes the E-unit switch direction. A bit frustrating. I need to explore exactly what touching what in more detail to investigate and debug."

As stated, I need to do a bit more detective work, but somethings causing a short when these old locos run the new switch.

Any specific things I should be looking for?

Thanks guys!!!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> T-Man,
> 
> VERY nice job on that motor. My memory's a bit fuzzy here, but that armature and windings looks very similar to the motor that's in our old Electrolux vacuum cleaner! The thing's ancient, and runs like a charm!
> 
> Nice springs in the switch lever ... high tech, huh?!?
> 
> Big Ed ... per your comment ...
> 
> 
> 
> I have "issues", too ... but with relatively NEW Lionel manual switches. I had just posted this comment on another thread, but I'll repeat it here, if that's OK ...
> 
> "I've just begun running my old Lionel locos (1668 prewar, 221 postwar) on relatively new Lionel manual switches ... the brown kind ... I can't remember the part number right now. Both of these locos are having problems running over the switches. The trailing trucks appear to be making electric contact with both the center (hot) rail and the outer (ground) rail as they drive over the middle section of the switch, where things split left/right. It causes a short, which makes the "smart" transformer drop voltage, which -- in turn -- makes the E-unit switch direction. A bit frustrating. I need to explore exactly what touching what in more detail to investigate and debug."
> 
> As stated, I need to do a bit more detective work, but somethings causing a short when these old locos run the new switch.
> 
> Any specific things I should be looking for?
> 
> Thanks guys!!!
> 
> TJ


Are these the switches?









The only problem I have with these is that some of my older engines jump the rail sometimes going through them.
And others go through just fine.
I bought them new too. 
I don't really like the way they throw the switch and hold the point tight.:thumbsdown:

I would think it's in your engine somehow. Do you have any newer engines to run through them?


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## T-Man

*Switch test*

For switches I first used some 1122's. All but one gave me some trouble. I never attempted to fix it.
Then I got the o22's. I had a plan to use ten of them. That was the original goal. I got a group of 9 and revamped them. This batch was the second generation of revamping so I improved techniques. The 022 is a well designed switch, I don't think I will have operation problems but I do have one on the track for engine testing. I think my weak point is the controllers I have a few to check out and I don't have enough for all of them. I mostly have the dual controllers not the single. It's something I have to look at. Now, I have plenty of switches and with the 022 the motor section is interchangeable.

I did get some repro lights for the o21 green manual switches. When I get time I will fix and post.

A book? I imagine they get started like this. After you try a bunch of different things and answer questions. Now? Who's got the time. I haven't got any CTT How to's. Once or twice they ran a parallel course with us but it could be coincidental. Then again I read there and learn plus I give them where their credit is due. Over there they are set in their ways, here I encourage the odd path, plus I am not trying to get published or noticed by any magazine.Here I am just trying to support the hobby.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> For switches I first used some 1122's. All but one gave me some trouble. I never attempted to fix it.
> Then I got the o22's. I had a plan to use ten of them. That was the original goal. I got a group of 9 and revamped them. This batch was the second generation of revamping so I improved techniques. The 022 is a well designed switch, I don't think I will have operation problems but I do have one on the track for engine testing. I think my weak point is the controllers I have a few to check out and I don't have enough for all of them. I mostly have the dual controllers not the single. It's something I have to look at. Now, I have plenty of switches and with the 022 the motor section is interchangeable.
> 
> I did get some repro lights for the o21 green manual switches. When I get time I will fix and post.
> 
> A book? I imagine they get started like this. After you try a bunch of different things and answer questions. Now? Who's got the time. I haven't got any CTT How to's. Once or twice they ran a parallel course with us but it could be coincidental. Then again I read there and learn plus I give them where their credit is due. Over there they are set in their ways, here I encourage the odd path, plus I am not trying to get published or noticed by any magazine.Here I am just trying to support the hobby.


I guess that means I can't be your marketing agent?

I like the duel controllers for some reason. 
Maybe it's because I had a bunch of them that just needed rewiring. 
The only thing that's tough to find is the rubber lens markers. I don't like the replacements they make, it's not the same color as the original lens covers.


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed, T-Man,

Yes, that's the same newer "brown" Lionel switches that I have. Look at my edited picture below. Green is outer common rails. Red is middle hot rail. Blue is my typical trailing loco truck (the 2 on a 4-6-2, for example). As the loco is driving through the switch, it appears that the truck has just enough left/right slop/play/wiggle-room such that the WHEEL on the truck makes contact with BOTH the green-common and the red-hot portions of the circuit at the forked transition shown in the YELLOW CIRCLE ... right where the triangular flat metal plate (common) is in close proximity to the long-deardrop curved central rail (hot).

I'm not sure WHY this is happening ... gauge on my truck/wheels need to be adjusted? Not enough up/or down tension in the truck spring? Other suggestions as to what I should be looking for???

Thanks for any clues ...

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Big Ed, T-Man,
> 
> Yes, that's the same newer "brown" Lionel switches that I have. Look at my edited picture below. Green is outer common rails. Red is middle hot rail. Blue is my typical trailing loco truck (the 2 on a 4-6-2, for example). As the loco is driving through the switch, it appears that the truck has just enough left/right slop/play/wiggle-room such that the WHEEL on the truck makes contact with BOTH the green-common and the red-hot portions of the circuit at the forked transition shown in the YELLOW CIRCLE ... right where the triangular flat metal plate (common) is in close proximity to the long-deardrop curved central rail (hot).
> 
> I'm not sure WHY this is happening ... gauge on my truck/wheels need to be adjusted? Not enough up/or down tension in the truck spring? Other suggestions as to what I should be looking for???
> 
> Thanks for any clues ...
> 
> TJ


I wonder if a plastic pin on the common rail would work?
Maybe turn your track connector so the other rail is the ground?

I asked.......Do you have any other engines besides them to run through the switches? 

Maybe something a little newer?


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## T-Man

The center hot piece is not suppose to be isolated from the moving part underneath. You only need the top to contact the center roller. Try to place electrical tape on the side of it next to the rail. so the outer rail wheel won't set back and touch it. That' all I can see.


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed & T-Man,

Thanks much for thoughts. Responses ...

1. I'm running all old locos ... Scout-like 249, streamliner 221, streamliner 1668. The 249 runs through pretty cleanly, but the 221 and the 1668 have problems over the switches. Both of those have non-roller pickup shoes. However, I think the "short circuit" problem is with one of the trucks (front or rear), as described above.

2. Big Ed stated: "I wonder if a plastic pin on the common rail would work? Maybe turn your track connector so the other rail is the ground?" I'm not quite sure I completely follow you here ... I need the middle rail as "hot", right???

3. T-Man ... I like your electrical tape idea. In fact, when I first saw the problem (actually saw sparks at the point of short circuit), I then cut a little wedge-sliver of electrical tape and stuck it on top of the flat triangular-shaped plate shown inside the yellow circle above. That DID help a bit, for sure. I.e., the truck/wheels (sketched as BLUE) still bounce around, but they short less frequently because I've covered over (with tape) a region of the ground. That said ...

4. Your idea to "place electrical tape on the side of it next to the rail so the outer rail wheel won't set back and touch it" might work even better. I was thinking inner wheel was problem, but I think you're right ... outer wheel is causing short, too.

Sorry to be longwinded here, but I'm thinking this through in my mind as I type.

Is it too "cheezy" of a fix for me to rely on the electrical tape ... or is it simply a case of "whatever works ... works!" ???

Thanks guys!!!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Big Ed & T-Man,
> 
> Thanks much for thoughts. Responses ...
> 
> 1. I'm running all old locos ... Scout-like 249, streamliner 221, streamliner 1668. The 249 runs through pretty cleanly, but the 221 and the 1668 have problems over the switches. Both of those have non-roller pickup shoes. However, I think the "short circuit" problem is with one of the trucks (front or rear), as described above.
> 
> 2. Big Ed stated: "I wonder if a plastic pin on the common rail would work? Maybe turn your track connector so the other rail is the ground?" I'm not quite sure I completely follow you here ... I need the middle rail as "hot", right???
> 
> 3. T-Man ... I like your electrical tape idea. In fact, when I first saw the problem (actually saw sparks at the point of short circuit), I then cut a little wedge-sliver of electrical tape and stuck it on top of the flat triangular-shaped plate shown inside the yellow circle above. That DID help a bit, for sure. I.e., the truck/wheels (sketched as BLUE) still bounce around, but they short less frequently because I've covered over (with tape) a region of the ground. That said ...
> 
> 4. Your idea to "place electrical tape on the side of it next to the rail so the outer rail wheel won't set back and touch it" might work even better. I was thinking inner wheel was problem, but I think you're right ... outer wheel is causing short, too.
> 
> Sorry to be longwinded here, but I'm thinking this through in my mind as I type.
> 
> Is it too "cheezy" of a fix for me to rely on the electrical tape ... or is it simply a case of "whatever works ... works!" ???
> 
> Thanks guys!!!
> 
> TJ


I used to use a liquid electric tape goo on connections in my boat.
You could just paint it on the rail.

I guess the plastic insulated pin wouldn't work and flipping the connector won't do anything.


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## tjcruiser

Ohhh ... liquid elec tape ... I like that. Available at most typical hardware stores? Marine supply stores?


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Ohhh ... liquid elec tape ... I like that. Available at most typical hardware stores? Marine supply stores?


I saw it in the Marine supply store when buying some other stuff for the boat.
You might want to try what T said with the electrical tape to see if it works before you waste your money.

Does it do it in only one direction?
Did you try running through the switch the other direction?

I still think it's in the engine somehow.


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed,

The truth is, I really haven't spent enough time investigating the root source of the problem and exploring this-way / that-way options. I'll need to do that more thoroughly.

My quick-fix (to get around the track) was a couple of strips of tape, but I think my next step will be to remove a rear truck, and roll it (by hand) through the switches with my multimeter in hand to check for specific wheel-to-rail sources of electrical shorts. I'm hoping it'll be easier to "see" things with just the truck, rather than trying to squeeze a glance under the moving loco, cab, frame, etc.

Thanks, again for the tip on the liquid stuff ... I didn't know there was something like that available. We have a good marine supply store here in town. But I'll try the tape route, first, as you suggest.

*T-Man and Big Ed ... my apologies for having diverted this 022 thread into this dialog concerning my Lionel switch issues. I figure if I can't steer my trains, at can at least steer a conversation! :laugh:*

Thanks VERY much for your thoughts and input ... I really appreciate the insight!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Big Ed,
> 
> The truth is, I really haven't spent enough time investigating the root source of the problem and exploring this-way / that-way options. I'll need to do that more thoroughly.
> 
> My quick-fix (to get around the track) was a couple of strips of tape, but I think my next step will be to remove a rear truck, and roll it (by hand) through the switches with my multimeter in hand to check for specific wheel-to-rail sources of electrical shorts. I'm hoping it'll be easier to "see" things with just the truck, rather than trying to squeeze a glance under the moving loco, cab, frame, etc.
> 
> Thanks, again for the tip on the liquid stuff ... I didn't know there was something like that available. We have a good marine supply store here in town. But I'll try the tape route, first, as you suggest.
> 
> *T-Man and Big Ed ... my apologies for having diverted this 022 thread into this dialog concerning my Lionel switch issues. I figure if I can't steer my trains, at can at least steer a conversation! :laugh:*
> 
> Thanks VERY much for your thoughts and input ... I really appreciate the insight!
> 
> TJ



Don't you know that you can't steer a train?


Your only on for the ride.


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## T-Man

*More to chew on*

maybe I should reread the problem. Scouts are known to have trouble crossing switches. It has to do with the distance of contacts. To prove this remove the front and rear trucks to the engine and see how it passes. Maybe these trucks need to isolated fron the frame. The Scout does require more speed to pass through.
An oppossing curve does not help since weight is shifted back and forth. A straight is needed in between.

The play on the trucks? Are they moving too much to the center. I had some homemade axles that allowed to much play on the wheel.

At last, slide pickups. They can be bent for a smoother ride.


Technically you can add a capacitor to get over rough spots. They discharge to keep the eunit from cycling. I used a similar one for my lighting of the caboose. Either way you may have to visit CTT to research the switch or capacitor for the e unit.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> maybe I should reread the problem. Scouts are known to have trouble crossing switches. It has to do with the distance of contacts. To prove this remove the front and rear trucks to the engine and see how it passes. Maybe these trucks need to isolated fron the frame. The Scout does require more speed to pass through.
> An oppossing curve does not help since weight is shifted back and forth. A straight is needed in between.
> 
> The play on the trucks? Are they moving too much to the center. I had some homemade axles that allowed to much play on the wheel.
> 
> At last, slide pickups. They can be bent for a smoother ride.
> 
> 
> Technically you can add a capacitor to get over rough spots. They discharge to keep the eunit from cycling. I used a similar one for my lighting of the caboose. Either way you may have to visit CTT to research the switch or capacitor for the e unit.


What is CTT?


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## T-Man

Classic Toy Trains at trains.com They are connected to the magazine.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Interesting topic. I've been reconditioning a bunch of 022 switches, but I don't get nearly this wild!  

I have found that the key things are usually the contacts, and all of the crimped track joints under the platform. I use my Dremel brush on them and then solder all the joints. Cleaning the ground contact between the switch body and the motor is another area. Finally, I lube the switch, clean the contacts, and of course remove any rust.

I also don't even attempt a switch that looks like the one you posted above!  So far, I've picked up a dozen 022 switches for my layout, and only one I couldn't get working, it was just too far gone. I'll be using it for parts if I need them...


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## Big Ed

Gun,
Hurry get yours today.
I only have 5 autographed copies left of the,

T-MANS TRAIN FIX ALL MANUAL

1001 fix's of O gauge.

256 color photographs
467 B&W


Soft cover / first edition.:thumbsup:
only $29.99

Soon to be on CD 
along with a special additional free CD containing, Classic T-man U tubes how to do's.:thumbsup:


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## T-Man

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Interesting topic. I've been reconditioning a bunch of 022 switches, but I don't get nearly this wild!
> 
> I also don't even attempt a switch that looks like the one you posted above!  ...


I just wanted to prove that under a little rust lies a good switch.
It was a box lot, so I wasn't choosey. I have done them before mostly from e bay and they were better than what they appeared.

Wild? Well maybe off the beaten path a little.


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> Gun,
> Hurry get yours today.
> I only have 5 autographed copies left of the,
> 
> T-MANS TRAIN FIX ALL MANUAL
> 
> 1001 fix's of O gauge.
> 
> 256 color photographs
> 467 B&W
> 
> 
> Soft cover / first edition.:thumbsup:
> only $29.99
> 
> Soon to be on CD
> along with a special additional free CD containing, Classic T-man U tubes how to do's.:thumbsup:


I'll wait for the downloadable version.


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## gunrunnerjohn

T-Man said:


> I just wanted to prove that under a little rust lies a good switch.
> It was a box lot, so I wasn't choosey. I have done them before mostly from e bay and they were better than what they appeared.
> 
> Wild? Well maybe off the beaten path a little.


Well, I was impressed how good they came out. I've gotten a few and worked them over, but I'm not sure I'm ready to put that kind of effort into them.


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## servoguy

Check my post on ctt "022/711 switch operating pblms" for a complete set of instructions on how to bring an 022 switch back to life. Except for the 711s which are O72 switches, I think the 022s are the best Lionel made. I have 86 of them, and if they are properly restored, they work perfectly.
Bruce Baker


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## gunrunnerjohn

It didn't come up with any results on that exact search, got a link?

Other than one that was pretty much past recovery, I've managed to revive a dozen of them, and I'm just learning the ropes. I have another dozen in the mail, I'll be working on those next.


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## servoguy

Here is a link: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/164691/1812172.aspx#1812172

Bruce Baker


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## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks, interesting reading. You have a couple of additional tips that I didn't run across in my investigation of the switches. I do take the switch base off and wash it with soap and water before starting any repairs, I also wash the switch covers. I dry them with a hair drier to get any water out I can't get with the rag.

I don't use WD-40, but rather contact cleaner for the contacts and light machine oil for the lub of the action. I've a pretty avid gun collector, and I've seen guns that have been "preserved" with WD-40 that are gummed up solid! In my experience, it's not really a lubricant or preservative. It's original purpose was "water displacement", hence the WD designation.


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## servoguy

If the "light machine oil" you use is 3 in 1, you are likely going to be disappointed as it dries out and becomes gummy. I have had poor experience with 3 in 1 oil. That is why I recommend 5W-20 engine oil. It doesn't dry out.

I don't use WD-40 as a lubricant but as a contact cleaner. I clean off the silver contacts that are in the switch motor with WD-40. I wipe them clean when I am done cleaning them. I have had poor luck with "contact cleaners." I have 45 years of experience with contact cleaners. Back in 1966 I started programming analog computers. Some of the contacts in these machines are "dry contacts." Dry contacts don't have enough current flowing through them to break down any oxide on the contacts. We finally started using CRC-356 for contact cleaner, which is similar to WD-40. This essentially eliminated our contact problems. I used to use WD-40 on mechanical TV tuners, and it worked very well. The CFC contact cleaners didn't work at all. WD-40 works well because it will dissolve the corrosion on the contacts. The CFC cleaners don't do that.
Bruce Baker


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## inxy

T-Man where do I find the Lionel Supplementals 1-9 page 471 ?.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Go to this page at Lionel Service Documents, leave the search blank and click on the pull-down that says "Please select one". You can download all the stuff from there.


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## inxy

Thanks gunrunner. Didn't know that storehouse of information was available. The pdf found a home on my computer.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Make sure you get all the later supplements as well, they go all the way to 47. Another great storehouse for stuff that's not there is Olsen's Library, lots of post-war stuff that you won't find at Lionel.


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## T-Man

This is from the Lionel Service website, same info. from lebshift21


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## servoguy

T, I agree that part of the fun of the trains is restoring something that someone else was ready to throw away. I have done it many times, particularly with the 022 switches. I never had one as rusty as the ones you show in this thread. Your pictues and TJ's posts show that even something pretty well gone can be restored to excellent condition. 

In addition to the 022 switches, I have restored a lot of old track, although I only make it servicable by cleaning off the top of the rails and the pins. I like the looks of old rusty track as it more closely resembles the look of the reall stuff.


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## tjcruiser

servoguy said:


> Your pictues and TJ's posts show that even something pretty well gone can be restored to excellent condition.


< humbled >

Thanks very much ... I enjoy seeing an old motor rev up again for the first time in 50 years or so, and the challenge of breathing some new life back into an old, rusted, dented loco. Good (and not so clean!) fun!

TJ


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## servoguy

I have a Lehigh Valley 44 ton GE loco that had an idler gear break 35 years ago. I made a new gear out of a piece of brass. Today, I would order a gear from Jeff at Train Tender or from Stock Drive. I also repaired one of my 736 locos that had a worn out bearing for the pilot truck, and made a bushing for the motor in my Picatinny Arsenal 2-4-2 switcher. And I have repaired a lot of other things along the way.


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## Bloodhound

How would you go about replacing a broken center terminal on a 22? I tested the two we have per page one and they work perfectly. Rusty tracks but I'll have to learn how to clean them. Also, for our postwar 50's set what would the controllers for the 22 switches look like as far as period correctness?


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## T-Man

The center terminal is a ground or common. Just run the wire to the outer rail.
I will work on the picture of the controllers. The one with a single throw was for the 022 the double is more common with the 1122. You only have two to choose from.


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## gunrunnerjohn

If you want one there, there are replacement terminals available from parts venders, so you can put one back.


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## Bloodhound

DUH...I see your post in this thread where you talk about just running the grounds to the transformer. That will eliminate the need for fixing the center stud. Still, I need the light covers and I'll be reading this thread thoroughly so I can clean and lubricate these switches now that I know they are fully functional. Looking forward to the control pictures T-Man and thanks a million!  Here's our switches after cleaning 50 yrs of dust and dirt off. Tried some wet/dry paper on a small section of track as well.


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## servoguy

I posted a long thread on the CTT forum. 022 and 711 switch operating pblms. You can find it with Google. I strongly advise you to read it. Also, never use sandpaper on track or switches. Use a wire wheel or a ScotchBrite pad.


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## NorCalTransplant

The heavy duty scotch pads are awesome for cleaning heavy rust, then you can use the lighter weight ones for all the nooks and crannies.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The repair parts, including the lanterns, are available inexpensively from The Train Tender, that's where I get mine.


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## T-Man

The 022c-1 controller











The lantern and power plug










For some reason I have no sockets??
This is my only example, I have two more somewhere????










1112 - 100 controller


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## T-Man

servoguy said:


> Check my post on ctt "022/711 switch operating pblms" for a complete set of instructions on how to bring an 022 switch back to life. Except for the 711s which are O72 switches, I think the 022s are the best Lionel made. I have 86 of them, and if they are properly restored, they work perfectly.
> Bruce Baker


Post 40 in this thread has the great link on 022 maintainance that Bruce wrote.

This time I did check the link. It works.

My manual does not have the inside to the 022 controller but it is only a switch with lights.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The one with no sockets is an O27 switch base, they had no lights because there was no feedback for switch position. I've actually soldered lights on those to make them into 022 controllers.


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## Bloodhound

Thanks for the advice everyone. NOTE TO SELF...NO SANDPAPER! Gotcha! LOL Thanks for the links also. What is the power plug? Does that go in the controllers?


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## T-Man

It bypasses the track power so you can use a different transformer to power the switch.


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## gunrunnerjohn

For conventional operators, the constant voltage plug is close to mandatory. Many times, you won't have enough track voltage to switch reliability running in conventional mode.


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## T-Man

022 controller interior.


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## Robes

I "JUST " picked up another set (that makes three) of 022 switches. These were mint in the box,... with one exception. One red light on the switch is burned out. The other switches I have use the bayonet bulbs (50-69 vintage from what I have read). This set uses the screw in bulbs (pre 50 vintage). In my search for a new bulb, I read "The standard screw base bulb is a #1447, but the bulbs can get fairly hot, and melt the covers. Some dealers sell #2447, which is a higher voltage bulb, and should not get as hot. " Can anyone confirm this and give me a source?

Edit: Town & Country Hobbies has LED replacements for both bayonet and screw in!!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn

That bulb is 24V Volt 0.15 Amp G3-1/2 Miniature. Since you'd be running it at a lower voltage, it would use lower current, probably no more than .1A. That's considerably less than the 1447 which is rated at .15A at 18 volts. So, yes, it'll run cooler.


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## Bloodhound

Thanks for the Pics T-man and thank you John for the explanation. I went to Lionel's website and sadly, the contollers are not available. Ordered everything else I needed and bought 2 rewired switched off ebay. I really wanted a pair with the crystal lenses as opposed to the painted bulbs. I know my 3 year old will go straight for the colored bulbs and you can pretty much guess what could happen...


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## gunrunnerjohn

Let me know if you need more 022 switches.


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## Bloodhound

Just a quick question. I have a blasting cabinet I use on some of my classic car projects. Would glass beading the track from a completely broken down 022 switch be too harsh?


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## servoguy

John,
How many 022 switches do you have for sale?


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## servoguy

Bloodhound, do you use glass bead blasting on plated objects? The zinc plating may get damaged by the glass beading. Why don't you try it on a piece of track first.


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## Bloodhound

servoguy said:


> Bloodhound, do you use glass bead blasting on plated objects? The zinc plating may get damaged by the glass beading. Why don't you try it on a piece of track first.


No. I wasn't aware track was plated. Still, I'll try it out on a peice of unsalvageable track for shits and giggles.


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## sjm9911

I've had good success cleaning switches with a dermal with a brass wheel. It gets into some of those tight spots. Use eye protection as some strands fly off the wheel!


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## gunrunnerjohn

FWIW, any plating on those eBay switches you showed us is long gone, blast away, you aren't going to hurt them!


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## servoguy

I leave them rusty and just clean the top of the rails with a ScotchBrite pad. Rusty is like the ones I see on the real railroads.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You do want to clean inside the rail ends so that the pins will make good contact. I use some very small rotary stainless brushes in a drill.


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## sjm9911

I also clean the rail ends but then add a electrical conductor / rust inhibitor spray lubricant inside the rail ends. It seems to work well. I bought it at home depot.


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## Rich

Wow! very impressive! Thought I was the only guy that was willing to spend hours on projects like this. Also I need 3 or 4 072 switches for a new layout. Anybody got any extra they would like to sell?


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## sjm9911

I think we all need 3-4 072 switches to finish our layouts!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Rich said:


> Wow! very impressive! Thought I was the only guy that was willing to spend hours on projects like this. Also I need 3 or 4 072 switches for a new layout. Anybody got any extra they would like to sell?


Left, right, what?


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## Rich

*switches needed*

2 or 3 of each would be great, do not need controllers.... if you like here is my email: [email protected].


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## BWA

For blasting stuff like switches (and, SU Carburetors), I use Baking Soda instead of glass bead. A lot less aggressive.

Much easier on the light stuff, works on most plastics too.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I glass beaded several plastic shells, and they came out perfect, it didn't take any of the detail away.


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## JSantoro

Hi, Mr. T-Man
You did a nice job, as always.
I will try to fix my two lionel 022.
Thank you


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## clovis

Wow...great thread!!!


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## T-Man

T-Man said:


> Post 40 in this thread has the great link on 022 maintainance that Bruce wrote.
> 
> This time I did check the link. It works.
> 
> My manual does not have the inside to the 022 controller but it is only a switch with lights.


Here is a link: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/164691/1812172.aspx#1812172





I have to ask what is the best way to control heat from the bulb, I read in a discussion with Servoguy a diode and a capacitor was mentioned. Nn specific values were given. So what are you using. LED replacements are now available that replace the bulbs but I am curious what to use with the incadescent lamps.


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## gunrunnerjohn

A 1N4003 diode in series with the bulb is all you need if you want to drop the power to the bulb. Not sure why you'd want a capacitor, you're running on AC as a rule.


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## T-Man

The CTT discussion had the capacitor mentioned.It is one reason I would like to know more.


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## sjm9911

How about a lower watt bulb? Had to add that , but im sure you wanted to know the "how" to do it. You can get lower watt bulbs,, right?


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## gunrunnerjohn

I have to believe that the capacitor was for a different reason, I'm having trouble with the capacitor for incandescent lighting. 

Since I haven't seen the CTT discussion, I can't really comment on it directly.


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## servoguy

I have not added any capacitors to 022 switches.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I don't know what you'd add them to.


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## T-Man

One bulb uses a lower wattage. That was mentioned. I just wanted to pull out any information. I guess melting the lantern has been a problem for some. Thanks for the replies.


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## servoguy

You can use capacitors in series with light bulbs to reduce the current in the bulb, and the capacitor doesn't get hot because it doesn't dissipate any power. We did that many years ago for bulbs running on 400 Hz power. For 60 Hz power, the capacitor is going to be quite large and therefore expensive. The diodes are cheap. This is much cheaper than changing all the light bulbs and/or using LEDs. Radio Shack has had some very inexpensive diodes in the store. I couldn't find them on-line. I buy them from Skycraft (skycraftparts.com) in Winter Park, Florida for about 10 cents each.


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## T-Man

Thanks Bruce. I gotta vist skycraft. One of these days.....


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## milehighxr

I assume all of this info good for all Lionel switches regardless of radius? I have an O72 number 5165 that I may need to repair.


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## sjm9911

Yes, I believe there similar just different radius. Some of the 027 stuff is set up differently.


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## milehighxr

Looks like I've got 2 bad switches, at least its a matched pair:laugh:

One the lantern is broken from the gear, and it doesn't move in one direction. The other doesn't work at all despite getting power. I will have to play with them a little bit this week to see. Good thing I only have a total of $100.00 wrapped up in all of these switches

I also need to source a remote, and another fixed voltage plug.


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## sjm9911

The plugs can be bought from the train tender. If you give me a week, I'll check to see what I have. If I have a remote it will most likely need to be rewired. I'm doing a bit of stuff around my house or I'd check sooner. As far as fixing them it's hard to determine what's wrong. Take some pictures when you take them apart. Servoguy is around some here. He's the expert.


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## milehighxr

Thanks it will probably be a week before I touch anything again anyhow, with work and physical therapy, I won't have much time to mess with anything before the weekend.


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## servoguy

If you read my post 022/711 switch operating pblms you will learn how to fix all the problems with your switches, and they will stay fixed. Search for it with Google. I have 125 022 switches and about 30 711/721 switches. The switches I have restored are bulletproof. They work perfectly every time.


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## sjm9911

OK, forgot its linked here on the site, under the troubleshooting info sticky, look for 022 switch. Follow the link to Bruce's switch tutorial. It does show how to fix everything.


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## milehighxr

Thanks guys, I printed out a diagram I found(can't remember if I linked to it from here or not) and figured out that one of my switches is missing a screw. They appear to be 3-56? Where can I get those?


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## servoguy

The screws in the switches are 4-36 which hasn't been a standard since WWII. 4-40 and 4-48 are standard now.

The guys that sell parts for Lionel should have them. [email protected] is one


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## servoguy

You can use a blue crimp on terminal in place of the standard constant voltage plug. The blue terminals are much less expensive, and they stay in place better. They only work on the original 022 switches which have two slits in the pin. Later switches have only one slit, and the pin is slightly too large.


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## milehighxr

servoguy said:


> The screws in the switches are 4-36 which hasn't been a standard since WWII. 4-40 and 4-48 are standard now.
> 
> The guys that sell parts for Lionel should have them. [email protected] is one


Seems odd, most #4 screws measure about .112", and this one from my switch is .099". This is the major diameter. My copy of Machinery's is too new to have data for 4-36, but it does indicate that the screw I pulled out is more likely a 3-56. I even held one of my thread gages up to it, and sure enough 56 threads per inch:dunno:


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## highvoltage

Some quick searching shows a #3 screw has a diameter of .099" So you indeed have a 3-56 screw.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Where did this screw come from on the switch? I don't remember ever running across a 3-56 screw on an O22 switch.


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## milehighxr

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Where did this screw come from on the switch? I don't remember ever running across a 3-56 screw on an O22 switch.


I am working on an O-72 switch produced circa 1987 in China, or Hong Kong. It is one of the 2 screws that hold the switch mechanism to the track portion of the assembly(not one of the screws that holds the plastic body to the mechanism).


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## gunrunnerjohn

Those are metric screws on the ones I have, I forget the exact size.


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## servoguy

The diameter of a #4 screw is 0.060 + 4*0.013 = 0.112" This formula is correct for all machine screws.

As GRJ asks, where did you get the screw? 022 switches only use 4-36 screws or sheet metal screws.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The Chinese ones have some metric screws.


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## milehighxr

It could very well be a metric screw, the nearest standard metric screw according to Machinery's is an M2.5x.45 it matches a #3-56 almost exactly. 

As I said before, I am working on O-72 switches number 5156, and 5166. The boxes for the ones I have boxes for say made in China, and made in Hong Kong.


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## servoguy

0.099" is 2.5 mm. The thread pitch for metric screws is the distance between two adjacent threads, the number of threads per mm.

You should be able to get metric screws at Home Depot or Ace Hardware. 

Here is a metric screw chart: http://www.cefns.nau.edu/Groups/fabricationShop/documents/ThreadSizeCharts.pdf

Note that there is no screw with a 0.099 OD


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## milehighxr

Machinery's shows M2.5 as having a major od of .099". It also shows the major od of #3 screw being .0942"-.099", depending on class of fit. 

The thread pitch for an M2.5x.45 in inches= .017716535", the pitch in inches of a 56 pitch thread is .017857143".

I probably have M2.5x.45 screws in these switches. Those will be easier to find than a 3-56:laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn

The clue for the modern Lionel tubular switches is that the knurled nuts are metric, that clues you into the fact that other screws will probably be as well.


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## dindallas

*Lionel O22 Repair Checklist*

I have read through as many threads as I could find on repairing/reconditioning O22 switches. I borrowed most of the information provided by servoguy at http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/...2.aspx#1812172. I tried to make a check list from his narrative as well as incorporating some followup comments from Bruce and others so I can work on the 15-20 switches that I have.

In the process of trying to understand his instructions, I changed some names of parts to the name used by Lionel in the Service Manual and even added some of the part numbers. I inserted ???? where I had a question. I also changed the order of some of the operations so that similar operations could be performed at the same time and that operations on a particular part could all be done at the same time.

I prepared this checklist primarily to help me understand the steps and, hopefully, to help someone else at the same time. I would appreciate comments from Bruce and anyone else on some of my questions as well as confirmation that the changes I made were correct. I certainly can't claim that I added anything new to knowledge base here.

Thanks for your help on this.


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## balidas

Numbering the boxes would've made this easier but, 

box #1, The switch housing cover is probably bakelite so clean it with some kind of like dish cleaner. The switch motor to me would mean using contact cleaner & the back cover of the switch, probably being steel, depending on it's condition may need sanding or soaking in Evaporust. Using Evaporust for Super O track, I've found that the Evaporust also cleans the plastic ties quite well, so you could use that for the housing cover.

box #3. don't know what is your question unless you're asking about the tool which is supposed to mean a Dremel tool.

box #21. Check to make sure there is no continuity between the middle rail & each outside rail. 

box #22. Is left to your discretion.


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## dindallas

balidas said:


> Numbering the boxes would've made this easier but,
> 
> box #1, The switch housing cover is probably bakelite so clean it with some kind of like dish cleaner. The switch motor to me would mean using contact cleaner & the back cover of the switch, probably being steel, depending on it's condition may need sanding or soaking in Evaporust. Using Evaporust for Super O track, I've found that the Evaporust also cleans the plastic ties quite well, so you could use that for the housing cover.
> 
> box #3. don't know what is your question unless you're asking about the tool which is supposed to mean a Dremel tool.
> 
> box #21. Check to make sure there is no continuity between the middle rail & each outside rail.
> 
> box #22. Is left to your discretion.


Balidas, Thanks for your comments. Box #1 - Yes, I was asking about the Dremel tool he used.
Box #22 - I am still not sure what Bruce meant in this step. Any ideas?

What tools do any of you use to clean the inside of the lamp socket? I have a few that are corroded.

On Page 3, the Service Manual states "When reassembling the switch don't forget to insert the insulating paper between the switch base and its metal bottom plate." I have only found 1 switch that still had this paper. Was it used on all switches?

Any comments on the checklist from anyone else?
Thanks in advance.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I used to make the insulating cardboard out of cereal box cardboard when I was rebuilding a bunch of these switches. I also found many did not have the insulation.


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## servoguy

About box 22, 

The resistance between the two outside rails should be less than 0.1 ohms. The resistance between the three center rails should be <0.1 ohms. 

Bruce Baker


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## teledoc

Welcome back Bruce....
We were thinking the worst when you hadn't been on this forum in so long. The switch master has returned!!


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## servoguy

There is something else i do to the sliding switch. I use a Dremmel tool with a 1/8" cutter and remove a small amount of the insulation at the ends of the stationary contacts so that the moving contact is in contact with the stationary until the switch points are almost closed. This makes the switch more reliable. 

I usually wire the switches in pairs so that when the train throws one switch the other switch of the pair also throws. This is done by connecting the outside two terminals of the two switches together using two wires. i had a layout in an apartment a few years ago with 40 switches wired in pairs. It took 20 minutes for the train to make a complete circuit.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Bruce, what happened to your other ID?


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## dindallas

servoguy1 said:


> About box 22,
> 
> The resistance between the two outside rails should be less than 0.1 ohms. The resistance between the three center rails should be <0.1 ohms.
> 
> Bruce Baker


Bruce, I want to thank you for your efforts in documenting the steps you use in repairing/maintaining these O22 switches. I "borrowed" your work and put it into a checklist so I could better understand these steps. 

These are the steps you listed for checking resistance:

Check the resistance between each of the outer terminals & the appropriate non-derailing rail. (should be < 0.1 ohms)
Check the resistance between the center rail & the fixed voltage pin. (should be < 0.1 ohms)
Check the resistance between the center terminal & one of the outside rails. (should be < 0.1 ohms)
Check the resistance between each of the outer terminals & the center rail with the switch points about half way between the two outer rails. ( should be about 7-8 ohms)
Check the resistance between the two outside rails (should be < 0.1 ohms)
Check the resistance between the 3 center rails (should be <0.1 ohms)

Is this step to test for a good solder joint between the terminal and the wire attached to it? "Check the resistance in the connection at the terminal. I soldered this one but I haven't made a habit of soldering all of these connections." (???)

Again, thank you for your work on this. Your comments are appreciated. Hopefully I made the appropriate corrections.


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## dindallas

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I used to make the insulating cardboard out of cereal box cardboard when I was rebuilding a bunch of these switches. I also found many did not have the insulation.


I am saving my cereal boxes now. Would manilla file folders work as well?
Thanks.


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## dindallas

servoguy1 said:


> There is something else i do to the sliding switch. I use a Dremmel tool with a 1/8" cutter and remove a small amount of the insulation at the ends of the stationary contacts so that the moving contact is in contact with the stationary until the switch points are almost closed. This makes the switch more reliable.


Bruce, I'm not sure I understand this step. Please elaborate.

Thanks


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## balidas

teledoc said:


> Welcome back Bruce....
> We were thinking the worst when you hadn't been on this forum in so long. The switch master has returned!!


I agree. It has been far too long. You have been missed.



dindallas said:


> I am saving my cereal boxes now. Would manilla file folders work as well?
> Thanks.


Why not? They are thin enough you could probably double them up as an extra measure.


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## gunrunnerjohn

dindallas said:


> I am saving my cereal boxes now. Would manilla file folders work as well?
> Thanks.


Yep, they'd work just fine. We just had a few cereal boxes at the time and I discovered they made good insulator material. Any thin cardboard of similar thickness will work fine.


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## balidas

You could also use the plastic from those report covers.


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## servoguy

i was using gmail and the gmail wizards cancelled my account with no reason given. i tried to get in touch with someone at MTF to have them change my email address and keep my old address, but I guess the problem was too complicated. John, if you could straighten this out, I would appreciate it.


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## servoguy

dindallas, if you watch the moving contact as you operate the switch manually, you will usually see it rides up on the insulator and breaks contact with the stationary contact long before the switch is completely thrown. I make a small divot in the insulator to allow the moving contact to stay in contact with the stationary contact until the switch is almost completely thrown. Remember, the power to the coil is disconnected when the moving contact breaks the contact with stationary contact, and the switch has to complete the travel just with its own inertia.


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## gunrunnerjohn

servoguy1 said:


> i was using gmail and the gmail wizards cancelled my account with no reason given. i tried to get in touch with someone at MTF to have them change my email address and keep my old address, but I guess the problem was too complicated. John, if you could straighten this out, I would appreciate it.


I can merge the two accounts and change your original to use your new email address. That way all your posts will be reflected in the original account.


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