# LED flexible lighting strips to illuminate a layout?



## videobruce

Though I'm surely not the first to think about this, I though a thread on the subject would be worth while.

I needed lighting under my layout for wiring and I got tired of using a florescent trouble light to do the job. I thought about fluorescent tubes, but ruled those out as did with CCFL's due to size, heat, and the number that would be needed for even lighting. The only other choice is LED's, but the typical enclosure or the LED "bulb" gets me back to the above (without the heat issue). Then there is the cost.

Some preliminary details are needed. The most common SMD's (Surface Mount Device) used for these strips are the 3528 and the 5050. A comparison between the two is here;
http://www.ledlightsworld.com/page.html?id=32
http://www.flexfireleds.com/pages/Comparison-between-3528-LEDs-and-5050-LEDs.html

The issue of color temperature is here which is a huge issue with LED's;
http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzone/lighting/resources/articles/understanding-the-color-white.html

There is also light output in lumen's which is not always listed. Something I consider the most important spec other than temperature;
http://www.colorkinetics.com/support/whitepapers/Evaluating_Light_Output.pdf

To make matters worse, there is a issue of "binning" due to the inconsistancy of mass production of LED's;
http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzone/lighting/resources/articles/decoding-led-bin-labels.html

Now, if I haven't scared you away or confused the hell out of you, read on.
I knew of these "strips", but never looked into them. Doing some preliminary searches brought me to everyones favorite eBay. Searching there brings up dozens of sellers, mostly from Hong Kong that I didn't want to deal with. Checking "US only" removes most of those, but still leaves some since they are now just stating they ship to the US to get around the "US only".
Try this search. It reduces the count down to 530 sellers;
http://www.ebay.com/sch/String-Ligh...led+flexible+LED+lighting+strips&LH_PrefLoc=1

For those of you that don't like eBay, here is a link for a Amazon search (fine tuning may be necessary);
Amazon.com: led flexible strip lighting


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## gunrunnerjohn

I removed the duplicate thread, please only post one thread on a topic. 

Thanks.


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## videobruce

I received my order yesterday from NJ (in spite of Sandy) and was surprised at the size (or lack of) of the reels. You can't tell from any of the photos since no reference was shown next to them. The "reel" that was used was a 8mm movie reel (if you can believe that). Something I haven't seen one in 20 or so years.
They came in static resistant pouches, though diode & resistors don't really have static issues, but nothing wrong with that.

Now the details of the specific LED's. 
I choose the smaller 3528 over the 5050 since this was going *under* the layout, not above, only as a 'work light'. I wasn't sure if these were going to be bright enough since I didn't want the brighter "bluish' white' strings, I chose the "warm white 2700-3000k. I can always add a 2nd string if these aren't enough. 
I have to say, there is *no way* I would remotely consider the "clear white" color, as many of these sellers call the typical bluish LED. These are blue enough. Viewing from the side produces a much warmer color. Viewing from straight on, they have a slightly bluish tint.
The plywood was painted white, so were the 'L' girder framework. Shelve depth is less than three feet. There is better reflection of light as opposed to non painted ply helping the situation.

After confirming both strings worked and they did, the 1st test was current draw since I didn't believe the specs posted. With 300 3528 LED's, the 5 meter (16') string drew ONE AMP at 12 vdc. I used an adjustable bench PS with volt & amp metering. AC current will depend of the effeciency of the PS you use. Outdated "bricks" (transformers) will be more than switching supplies. I didn't have a 2 amp switching supply available, but had a 3.3 amp which I will use gining me the ability to add another string if needed.

I also tested the dimming ability. These LED's fired around *7.5v* (very dim, not really usable) and seem to achieve maximum brightness between 12 and 13vdc. 

I noticed these 5 meter strings are actual comprised of a number of *separate 20" sections* that have ten sets of these "3 packs" that are soldered together. That was a surprise.
Measuring the temperature (after being lit for 15-20 minutes) in a ambient room temperature of 65 degrees and found these to run around 75 degrees. Just warm.


Attached are photos of:
the shipping reel next to a $5 bill for size comparison,
reel label, 
single '3 pack' closeup,
solder joints,
color comparison between these and a circular florescent tube work light (taken in manual mode in the 'incandescent' color temperature setting).


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can get the 5 meter strips with 300 LED's from Amazon for $13. 5 Meter Reel Warm White LEDs


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## tjcruiser

Boy ... those got some very positive review from end-users on Amazon. Looks like a great product. Bright, cut-to-length, cheap ...

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, when I bought them, they were less than $9, apparently the demand has run up the price.


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## videobruce

Here are pics of the strips temporary mounted to the 'L' girders under the layout. These have adhesive on the back that actually might hold for the long term, but I will probably apply clear (or white) acrylic caulk as a additional measure.
I needed around 27', so I either cut one of these or overlap where they meet in the middle, starting the ends of each strip from the ends of the table. I believe the actual length of the strips are more than 16", but haven't measured yet.
One strip is decent, not bright, but workable. With both strips in use, output is more than enough telling me a 5050 strip as opposed to this 3528 would of been the better choice.

If you focus on the top of each pic, the single strip really isn't that bad, ignoring the carpeted wall that sucks up light, making it look much darker. Finally, the "warm white" is very pleasing. I wouldn't want the common so called "clear, cool or true white".

Though, I surely didn't need "waterproof", I find this encapsulated strip a huge advantage over a bare flexible circuit board with LED's & resistors exposed to getting hit and damaged. I'm not sure about mounting as I'm concerned if either strip fails and needs replacement for whatever reason. I was planning on applying acrylic caulk to supplement the adhesive strip, but I'm not sure now. using pieces of 24 gauge wire does hold these in place, but needs refinement.


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## videobruce

One point I should of made eariler;
*I ruled out Xmas tree light strings and those awful looking "rope lights". I spent too much time and money on my layout to degrade to to that level!*

After studying the links I provided in the OP, the issues of bins & binning through quality control, the maxing of the yields of these LED's, also the fact these so called warm white LED's are not necessary that "warm" in actual appearance and lastly the limited, narrow visual spectrum brings up questions. When it comes to reproducing colors on your layout, assuming you will use these for above lighting (unlike my use), I would suggest trying at least two RGB strips with a warm white strip in between to 'fill in' the void of a single color LED. 

Of course this is a suggestion I'm thinking about trying. Adding the three primary colors together produces white. Separate red, blue & green LED's are very vivid by themselves. It would then reason the resulting combined output would be a better white.
There is at least one "controller" for these combo RGB strips that allows output & color control that appears to have possibilities for changing the 'mood' of the lighting. Dawn, dusk, etc might easily be achieved going this route.

Just to show how "nutso" one can go with RGB strips, they have individually addressable LED strips available, where each LED cluster can be changed from it's neighbor;
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/2540


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## videobruce

Doing additional research, I came across these sites with information regarding lumens output & types of strips. The majority of these strips use either the *3825 or the 5050* LED SMD as already stated. Either one of those can be either a 30 LED/meter or a 60 LED/meter strip. 
Adding to the mix are 120/meter & 240/meter 3825 strips.

Before I go into luminous output, go here for the different encasements available, making them waterproof and "tool" proof for exposed areas;
http://www.ledstrips8.com/wholesale/super-bright-12v-flexible-waterproof-led-lighting-strips/ 

First, go here and click on each type of strip and look at the lumens (lm/m) and the Efficiency (lm/W) columns to see the difference between the types of LED's used;
http://www.kingway-led.com/products/Flexible-LED-strips-14-1.html

Using the "warm white" color, lumens per meter output varies from a low of *165 lm/m* to a high of *1680 lm/m* which is over a 10:1 spread. The site is the manufacture, not a outlet, no prices are available. Since these companies use the same chips from one company to another, I would like to assume lumen output would be similar (other than possibly color consistency).
All the combinations have the same efficiency (66 lm/W) except the 5630! That has a efficiency of *76 lm/W*! A oddity is listed with the 60 LED's/m strip of only 53 lm/W. I don't know if that is a typo or not.

But, there is an additional chip of interest for even greater output; *the Samsung 5630*. Though more expensive, considering the output, it is cheaper per lumen. Most of the listings for this 5630 only have it as the typical 'cool' white (bluish color).

Going in the opposite direction, there is a 335 LED. Being smaller, output is only 150-200 lm/m. If space is a concern for other applications, this could be a solution;
http://www.lya-ledlights.com/html_products/SMD335-30LEDs-led-strip-light-36.html

If that still isn't bright enough, there are 24v versions of this with another 1,000 lm/meter output;
http://www.rayen-led.com/samsung-led-strips/129-samsung-5630-led-flexible-strip.html

There is no two ways about it. I'm sold on this concept. Cost is the main issue, so shopping around is essential. *Prices I have seen have ranged from $13 to a high of around $230 for a standard five meter reel. That is $1.25 to $14.40 a foot.*
With the two strings I bought, both are ok so far, but that isn't long term testing. The power supply I'm going to use is a switching type with enough overhead. I have a string of 5050's 30 LED's/m ordered to compare since I will just double up the original pair of 3528's and fill in the rest of the length with this 5050 for a brighter coverage. I suppose if I didn't do the 'double up' test, I would of settled for a single string, but I figured for an additional $18 more, the 5050 string was worth it.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The funniest part of all that is reading the descriptions of the products, those guys need a translator!


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## videobruce

Actually, most of what I have read has been very good compared to elsewhere were it borders on being unable to decipher what the text is about. 
The names they choose for their stores & companies are the funnest. Example: "MuchBuy" from the source I bought from.


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## T-Man

This is more than I ever want to know. A great thread but I need more time to see the fine points. Tyanks for the time to spell this all out, a great effort.

For ribbons there area number of leds per meter I use 60 but they do come double that. The 5050 are large and should be strong enough to use as counter lighting. I am happy with them, the warm whites are warm.


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## videobruce

Warm white is the only choice I would make. It's yet to bee seen how good a light it would be for photography though which is why I suggested a trio of R,G & B strips to fill the void of a single white LED.

The path I plan on taking under the table, instead of cutting the strip to make it around three corners is to drill a large enough hole so I can just slide the strip through saving possible problem and hassle of cutting, then soldering a cable to jump where it is split. I'm also going to use 24 wire to secure the strip(s) to the 'L' girder instead of relying on the adhesive and/or caulk. I will drill small holes every 12" or so along the L girder above where the top of the strip is. I'm sure it will provide a decent hold with the ability to easily remove it if necessary.

I do have a 5050 strip on order. I do plan on some tests with pics above the table just to see how it would look with the strips I have. Dimable ceiling mounted CFL's is what supplies lighting in the room now.
The pic is older, only at the cork roadbed stage.


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## videobruce

*5050 strip*

I failed to notice the one I ordered was only a 30LED/meter. This strip was $18 delivered which I though was a good buy. The 3528 was $14 delivered. The 3528 strips I had are 60LED's/meter. 
Anyway, here are the tests I did between the two types. 

Differences from the 3528;
1. Wider strip, 
2. Four conductor bus as opposed to two conductor (4 solder connections between each section),
3. Tri-color SMD's with separate red, green & blue LED's within,
4. Individual resistors (150 ohm) for each SMD instead of one per "3 pack".

You now have the option to run all three or any combination with additional circuitry, one of those optional controllers or something of your design by simply using different resistors or some type of rheostat design to vary the resistance (voltage) to each color to change the color temperature.

I retested current and then tested light output using a light meter set to a Lux scale measured three feet from each strip laying on the floor (easier to do it that way). I made numerous tests. (Due to the 3 amp limitation of my bench supply, I couldn't test voltage greater than 15.5 for the 5050 strip.)

5050 voltage & current:
12.0v - 1.6A - 35 lux
13.8v - 2.5A - 47 lux
15.5v - 3.2A - 55 lux

3528 voltage & current;
12.0v - 1.0A - 31 lux
13.8v - 1.5A - 44 lux
15.5v - 2.0A - 53 lux
18.0v - 2.8A - 65 lux

I would not recommend running much above 13.8 volts. I only tried 18 volts to see what the difference was. I measured temperatures over 100 degrees after less than 10 minutes.


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## videobruce

*finished product*

Though disappointed with my 'goof', I wound up using the 3825 strips the entire perimeter of the layout (with about four feet left over which I cut) and using the 5050 strip along the long portion. I also decided to switch the strips separately so I can have just the 3825's (smaller) strips lit as a ambiance lighting filling in below the table, not to work on, but only for show. Then switching in the parallel 5050 if I need to work for additional lighting.

I drilled holes through the 'L girders to route the strips without cutting and soldering jumpers between each. I (unfortunately) used a old tube of silicone caulk to provide additional holding power since there is no way that adhesive strip would hold on painted wood. It might do for glass, Plexiglas or polished steel, but not pine that was only primed. That was a mistake since the caulk apparently was past it's useful state in the tube. It seems to be holding, but I already found a few spots that have separated with the last strip I positioned. The caulk already started to set-up. 

Below are pics of with and without the strips. The pics were taken in full manual mode so you can compare the light levels.


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## videobruce

I have been in my wiring stage and these make a huge difference when working under the layout eliminating the need for temporary lighting.


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## Roundhousecat

I buy the LED strips from a local electronics store. They run on 12v dc and I can link them together or cut them to length. Super white or "classic white" work well. No heat generated and works like a charm. they also sell them in a 1/2 M or full Meter lengths. Try your local electronics store. Radio shack or the source won't have them.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can buy the five meter rolls on eBay for $7 with free shipping.


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## DonR

On another thread posted a short vid of passenger
cars lighted by them...

Just finished lighting a passenger station...and
a swinging door bar with questionable activities
upstairs...

Will post pics when the glue dries.

These LED strips are much easier to use than
loose LEDs and make excellent interior lights.

Don


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## george

*let's update - feedback-experience*

OK, by this time a bunch of us have read through this and chatted with others who may have experience with these 12v coils of LEDs. So, is there an emerging consensus on do they work, best source for least cost/best value, systems/dealers to avoid, power source, etc. I have a feeling that LEDs may be the best thing since sliced bread, especially for building multilayer layouts.


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## Carl

I think I would have given up and gone back to the flash light.


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## gunrunnerjohn

This is as cheap as I've found recently: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-500CM-Wa...ds-/150571299400?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

As for power source, you got it. For full brightness, you need 2 amps at 12 volts for each 300 LED strip. I normally cut them up for lighting passenger cars, etc., so I also customize the power supplies.


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## KAL5

Look up #'s 171035176473 for the leds and 200925384890 for clips on Ebay
I got them, the leds are bright and the clips make it very easy and they work great
There out of the U.S , NY. so it wont take so long to get them


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## gunrunnerjohn

Those look pretty high priced. I'm not sure how the clips make them easy to work with, almost surely you'll need to do some soldering anyway, might as well do it right.


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## TomW2034

*Best LED color temp?*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can get the 5 meter strips with 300 LED's from Amazon for $13. 5 Meter Reel Warm White LEDs


A backdrop for the T&K Railway has been on my mind lately, and this past weekend a shade of sky blue I saw in another layout was prototyped on poster board. With lotsa light, it looked okay. Without additional light, it is just too dark.

















Since I believe just about anything added will need additional lighting, LED rope lights had always been at the back of my mind.

The default choice at John's link is "Warm White 3100K" which look good. But they also sell "White 6000k" which is noticeably more white. A dimmer version of "warm white" is also available.

Anyone have thoughts as to why the default "warm white 3100K" would not be my best choice?

Thanks,
Tom


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## tr1

*supper detailing?*

It looks as though, a good project of supper detailing and weathering is in store for the 
under carriages of your rolling stock, yes?
Regard's,tr1


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## DonR

I use the warm white LEDs from the 300 reel in my passenger cars. The
effect is of florescent lighting. You could get a more warm effect by
reducing the 12 volt input with a resistor or other adjustable voltage
source.

Don


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## L0stS0ul

How would you have to wire the amazon strip to light a passenger car? I have a number of passenger cars with iffy lighting and it would be awesome to use this to light them.

http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesaler...r=8-12&keywords=led strips&tag=vglnk-c2467-20


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## DonR

I see you are 0 gauge, I assume therefore track AC voltage varies.
I would expect the LEDs to go out when you lowered the speed
(thus the voltage);.

I have HO DCC with around 14 or so modified AC on the track at 
all times. To light my Athearn silver side cars I installed a
bridge rectifier (4 diodes) and a 50 volt 450 mf capacitor (to
avoid flickering) and a 470 ohm resistor. I used 2 of the 3 LED
strips per car. The effect is as if they were lighted by flourescent
tubes as was the case back in the 50s 60s. You would use
essentially the same except possibly 3 of the 3 LED strips
since your cars are longer.

Don


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## gunrunnerjohn

If you want variable intensity, try this...

20110 LED Lighting Regulator, 2 Pcs.


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## DonR

Very interesting product, John.

It keeps the LEDs at same intensity regardless of
track voltage until that drops below the 5 v ac 
minimum. And it's affordable.

Don


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## Lemonhawk

Or this
<<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQQEQQ6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00>>
Its a remote controlled on/off dimmer but some caution .. the remote will work ALL the of these things you might install, you will not have control of each device. I used one of these on may control panel to dim the LED's (just changing resistors is not as nice as PWM). But I also had one on my work light - I have to remove it so the because the remote for the panel worked the worklight and panel and vice versa.


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## DonR

Lemonhawk said:


> Or this
> <<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQQEQQ6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00>>
> Its a remote controlled on/off dimmer but some caution .. the remote will work ALL the of these things you might install, you will not have control of each device. I used one of these on may control panel to dim the LED's (just changing resistors is not as nice as PWM). But I also had one on my work light - I have to remove it so the because the remote for the panel worked the worklight and panel and vice versa.


The link is not working.

Don


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## TomW2034

DonR said:


> The link is not working.
> 
> Don


Try this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQQEQQ6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn

Unless you want to pay Amazon prices, try the same thing from the source for $2 with free shipping: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-RF-Wire...ight-New-FO-/291316838983?hash=item43d3d63247


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## L0stS0ul

Thanks for all of the info. I picked up the spool of LED lights which came in today and tested it out. I wired it up like this

1 Lionel baggage car -> 4 sections from the LED spool -> 1N4001 diode -> 470 ohm 1/4W resistor -> track power

It works quite well and it's really nice that the LED strip has adhesive backing already applied. Good lighting effect in my Lionel baggage car which has been a complete nightmare to keep lit. A capacitor would help it keep from flickering so will look into picking up one of those from digikey. Is this the size capacitor you would use? My best guess based off what I've read

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ELXZ500ELL470MFB5D/565-2004-ND/756520

I just started tinkering with command on one of my tracks with an MTH remote commander so it's quite nicely lit at 18v or so.


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## gunrunnerjohn

For flicker-free performance, I'd move up in size, try a 470uf 35V, that will do the trick nicely. It will go right after the diode and before the resistor for best results.


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## L0stS0ul

Thanks John. That's a huge help!


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## TomW2034

*The Force is with the T&K Railway*

The new lights are a little brighter than I was expecting.









Kim liked the first cut, though, so I think we'll be okay.

Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can probably dim them if you want to, they're just series string LED's with a current limiting resistor.


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## TomW2034

*How Prophetic*



tr1 said:


> It looks as though, a good project of super detailing and weathering is in store for the under carriages of your rolling stock, yes?


I did not understand your comment at the time it was posted. I certainly do now:









The LED strips are currently laying loosely by the side of the T&K (the freight needs to run on schedule). Now that I see how lighting placement affects the railway, adjustments will be made.

Tom


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## TomW2034

*I'm Glad I Experimented, But*

Although my chocolate lab enjoys the sound & motion of the 2055 pulling the present consist around the T&K Railway as much as I do, the new lights are just to much for _me _even with dimming. 

Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can tone them way down as a rule, you should be able to get them to a decent intensity with a variable supply.


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## TomW2034

*Pulse Width Modulation*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can tone them way down as a rule, you should be able to get them to a decent intensity with a variable supply.


Although I knew that in the back of my mind, I finally decided to pursue the dimming the light to an acceptable level a couple of weeks or so ago. At first I thought my Arduino would do the job for me after lowering the supply voltage was not enough. Sadly, the power level of 53' of LEDs was to much for it.

After not finding a high-power FET at a reasonable cost to add to my first thought, eBay was queryed for alternatives. For ~$5, one vendor offered a remote-controlled device touted as capable of handling a 12-amp load. Since the track's lighting, according to spec, was only pulling about 85% of the that, I ordered it, and it came in today.






​
Although I was unimpressed with the gauge of wire, the device was installed anyway. No joy; the lights only shimmered slightly under the remote's control. The soldered-n "brain" got really hot, too. I even had my teenager come in to verify the remote was both working, and handled correctly.






​
Although remote-control would have been cool, this next step will probably be to order the 30-amp, manual-potentiometer version someone else was offering.

On a lighter note, if I keep nickel-&-diming myself like this, I will never be able to purchase nicer things like BobS's ore cars (if he hasn't sold them already) 

Nothing like new challenges!

Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn

I got three of those regulators as well, but I paid $5 for the three of them, seemed like a good price at the time.


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## Chip

I've found most of the stuff for this hobby is "you get what you pay for", cheap is just that and quality will cost ya! I've been burned a bit and now save up and wait for the "good stuff" when it comes to just about everything but scenery, there you can "get away" with a lot more than you can between the rails!


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## Lemonhawk

I've used those little remotes. Keep in mind that a single remote talks to all the controllers in range. So you could use a lot of them to distribute the load.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Chip said:


> I've found most of the stuff for this hobby is "you get what you pay for", cheap is just that and quality will cost ya! I've been burned a bit and now save up and wait for the "good stuff" when it comes to just about everything but scenery, there you can "get away" with a lot more than you can between the rails!


If you know what you're buying, you can save a ton of money on the so called "cheap stuff" without sacrificing any reliability. It's important to be able to recognize when the "cheap stuff" is as good as the expensive spread. Also, I can find you multiple examples of the exact same item from the same manufacturer for three or four times as much from one source than another. I choose to buy from the lower cost source. Truthfully, you don't always get what you pay for if you don't shop carefully.

However, it's your money, and you get to spend it anyway you please.


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## TomW2034

*I'm trying to get better at it*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> If you know what you're buying... It's important to be able to recognize when the "cheap stuff" is as good as the expensive spread. Also, ... [more good points]...


That's the parts I'm working on right now. In order: I don't... I'm not there yet... and thanks for your insights  - I get a lot out of your contributions to this forum. 

Tom


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## L0stS0ul

Chip said:


> I've found most of the stuff for this hobby is "you get what you pay for", cheap is just that and quality will cost ya! I've been burned a bit and now save up and wait for the "good stuff" when it comes to just about everything but scenery, there you can "get away" with a lot more than you can between the rails!


It's not just this hobby. I do RC planes and Heli's as well and I've tried going cheap but that usually ends up in props or blades flying at you. Not worth it


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## videobruce

*Chinese QC? Not with these.*

Returning from a three year hiatus, I have found seven '3 packs' have died. They are scattered around 1/3 to 1/2 the length of the strips which cover most of the layout. Most are the 5050's.
Taking a closer look some are not completely out. Each of these surface mount LED's appear to have three individual elements. You can see this in three of these attachments.

Worse, half of these appeared to have died in the past 2 days (around 4 hours of on time) after sitting for three years I'm wondering if 12v is too high. 

These can't really be serviced, surely I have no intention of removing the strips or even trying to cut out the 'bad' sections unless a greater number of these die out. Typical Chinese QC


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## gunrunnerjohn

Those appear to be the color strips, are all the individual chips in one of the LED packages the same color?


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## videobruce

These are all white (slight blueish white, probably 4000K)
I will have to do saome troubleshooting when I get a chance. I just got myself up to speed where I left off with block wiring. Thjis wasn't on the list of things to do, but is now.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I haven't seen that configuration, all the multi-chip ones I've seen have been pure multi-color. 

For the plain single-chip ones I've gotten, I've have had a couple of poor solder connections on an individual LED, I just fix those as I inspect them. Once they've been in service, I've had no further issues. I've gone through about 60-70 rolls of these with no issues, most have gone into passenger car lighting kits.

I did have an issue with a specific shipment of the plain single-chip white strips, obviously some factory floor sweepings. For the batch of really bad rolls I got a full refund from the Chinese supplier, so I just use pieces of them for my passenger car lighting.


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## videobruce

Unless things changes, while I was aware of tri-colored strips, I shopped for all white which were as plentiful or more as the others.

I initially assumed the dropping resister failed, but now I'm not sure. These half on chips are puzzling.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I never saw the multi-chip white strips, tons of the single LED strips. What's the purpose of having multiple white chips in one package? I see multiple leads as well, that implies you can turn on one or any combo of the LED elements in each package. Why would you go to that trouble?

You'll notice the tape is labeled RGB, obviously they use the same stock for the multi-color strips.


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## Lemonhawk

The lower strip has one resistor probably in series with the 3 LED's driven by 12 V and you might try pushing or probing with a voltmeter to see where the connection is not quite clean. The upper strip has 3 resistor per bank of 3 and I'm suspicious that they are indeed RGB LED's and the drive to generate white probably means that there is high resistance in one or more of the R G or B circuits. If you can put the meter probes across the resistors the one with no voltage is the circuit that is not lighting. Your just lucky I didn't solder those resistors in as most would have been left on the floor! These may be difficult to repair, but remember they are in sets of 3 so you could just cut out the bad sections along the cut lines and replace with a new section of a similar type. If there are just a few bad spots.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Since they're labeled as RGB, it's hard to imagine they're not the tri-color models. There is also three resistors, one for each series string of three of one color.

Obviously the bottom one is a simple LED reel. I find that occasionally they'll have a bad solder connection. Once in a while, there will also be a bad LED, easy to replace.


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## videobruce

If you take a close look at the 2nd & 3rd photos, those 'chips' that are dark, the 2nd pic shows one 'element' (for lack of the proper term) partially lit and the 3rd pic shows two partially lit.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Bruce, those are the oddest strips I've ever seen if they're all white, and it makes no sense to have three white chips in a single package when one will do just as well.


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## videobruce

That is the way they came when I bought them 3 1/2 years ago. I haven't had a need to research what is available now.


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## gunrunnerjohn

They're certainly odd, and I have never seen those offered. I still don't know what the idea of the three chips, perhaps a poor man's dimmer?


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## videobruce

It's the first time I used these strips and the 1st time using these SMD chips. Looking at them lit, it looks like one element, but clearly when dim you can see three. Maybe this is the all white version of the tri-color version. 

Anyway, not happy with these failures, there can't be more than 15 +/- hours on them..


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## videobruce

This should shed some 'light' on what you see in my pics:

http://www.flexfireleds.com/pages/Comparison-between-3528-LEDs-and-5050-LEDs.html



> Simply put, these LED chips are called SMD 5050 because the dimensions of the chips are 5.0mm x 5.0mm. They have 3 LED diodes in one housing (sometimes called tri-chips), and are a lot brighter than individual 3528 LED chips


.
Apparently there are three more (brighter) designs that came out after I researched these.


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## gunrunnerjohn

From the prices on that web site, I'm glad I get mine where I do!  The last five meter rolls I bought were the 3528 rolls and they cost $3/ea.


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## videobruce

Update on the dying LED strips problems.

I removed a 2nd strip where half the LED's died and replaced it with a new strip. The old ones were around 2500 degrees kelvin, the new ones are around 4000 deg. K which looks better (and brighter).
The last existing strip cover the far end of the layout and most of those are still good. I also put a adjustable PS in and adjusted the voltage down to 11 vdc. Hopefully this won't repeat the previous problems with those apparent cheap strips with little QC.

Note the comparison between with and without the lighting and the two strips (old on bottom, new on top).


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## gunrunnerjohn

I lit mine up with some LED pucks that are used for under-counter lighting in kitchens.


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