# 3 rail track



## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

I spend a lot of time reading and trying to learn I recently discovered 3 rail track!! I am going WOW :laugh:!! I like this simple, excellent for dc operation, no reverse loop mechanism's required, then learn for some reason never fully accepted in U.S. I have to ask why???? I see that american locos, would have to be reworked to run on this?? So I ask you veterans have you tried it?? what would it take to rework a loco of my choice to utilise this?? is it worth it?? In quiring mind would really like to know???? Thanks for your time and knowledge:thumbsup:


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

the work required to rework just one loco would be more than the work required to wire a reverse loop.


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## zorba (Aug 6, 2012)

to me 3 rail track just doesnt look right. the only benefit to having them is the requirements for reverse loop.

however, with DCC i beleive that is no long an issue either.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

gandy dancer#1 said:


> I recently discovered 3 rail track!! I am going WOW :laugh:!! I like this simple, excellent for dc operation, no reverse loop mechanism's required, then learn for some reason never fully accepted in U.S. I have to ask why????


When's the last time you saw a real railway with a third rail down the middle of it?

It might make some wiring situations easier, but it looks stupid. Can you imagine a model railroad, beautifully sceniced, and with superdetailed locomotives and structures to accurately represent a real railroad, and then the track has this unrealistic third rail down the middle of it?


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

zorba said:


> to me 3 rail track just doesnt look right. the only benefit to having them is the requirements for reverse loop.
> 
> however, with DCC i beleive that is no long an issue either.


Wiring for a reverse loop in DCC is absolutely no different than DC, but the advantage is you can use an electronic auto-reversing circuit instead of a manual DPDT toggle. So once it's wired you don't have to think about it.


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## D1566 (Jun 8, 2012)

cv_acr said:


> When's the last time you saw a real railway with a third rail down the middle of it?


Last time I travelled on the London Underground system ... ! However I will agree that is a fairly limited application


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

To the regrets of many,most O gauge trains are operated on three rail track.
Yes,there are modelers who use two rail track but,like it or not,they are in a minority in the minority scale of O.
Those that choose to model using three rail track are often disparaged by those that use two rail track.See above posts.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

cv_acr said:


> When's the last time you saw a real railway with a third rail down the middle of it?
> 
> It might make some wiring situations easier, but it looks stupid. Can you imagine a model railroad, beautifully sceniced, and with superdetailed locomotives and structures to accurately represent a real railroad, and then the track has this unrealistic third rail down the middle of it?


I don't believe I have ever seen any pictures of your realistic RR yet.
Maybe I am not looking in the right place.
Let me know where to look please. Are they here?
Do you have a even have a layout? 
A beautifully, scenic layout with super detailed locomotives and structures to accurately represent a real railroad?


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## gandy dancer#1 (Jan 21, 2012)

Hey BIG ED::: No dont have such a set up, was just curious after reading some stuff on 3 rail No I am not going tobuy 3 rail track, but i still like the idea of it for dc just my 2 cents worth


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gandy dancer#1 said:


> Hey BIG ED::: No dont have such a set up, was just curious after reading some stuff on 3 rail No I am not going tobuy 3 rail track, but i still like the idea of it for dc just my 2 cents worth


That was directed to CV_ACR, not you.

In the end regardless of scale, THEY ARE ALL TOYS.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, gee I didn't realize one had to "prove" oneself in some way to make the observation that railways generally run on 2 rails not 3. And that O-scalers (or European users of Marklin's HO 3-rail track and models) have been working around this for years, saddled with this type of track from the history of the scale.

And I don't think my comment is that far off the mark, as I've seen photos of O-scale layouts with reasonably nicely done scenery and landscaping, and then there's that track with the extra third rail that detracts from the scene.

So while I don't think it's all that relevant, if you want to play this game, fine. What the heck. Here you go smartass.

(I'm so TERRIBLY SORRY that much of this is only in-progress. But hey, I have lots of different projects on the go at the same time, and often busy with other things so sometimes it can be a while between picking up a particular project. I'm also so sorry that these are mostly just quick grab shots taken to record progress, and that I didn't set up the tripod and some lights to try to take nice new shots just to respond to you. )

Here's a couple earlier grab shots from my current switching layout. I'm so sorry it's not a completely finished basement-filling affair, since I only moved into my current 2bdrm apartment a year and a half ago. And I've been busy this summer and last night I actually spiked some rails on it for the first time in probably 3-4 months. All the track is handlaid code 55 and 70 MicroEngineering rail on wood ties.

























This last one's a little fuzzy, but oh well. The switches have made a little more progress since this was taken, and the grassy area behind the (unfinished) factory is only a first layer.









A couple of boxcars being kitbashed from Intermountain kits

















Proto2000 gondola modified into a woodchip car. The end door stills needs some extra detailing









Proto2000 flatcar with scratchbuilt bulkheads. Still needs ladders and extra detailing.









A rather more heavily modified Proto2000 flatcar into an open-decked container flatcar, outfitted to carry 5 copper concentrate containers. For the containers, I scratchbuilt masters in styrene and cast copies in resin. Still need to finish the end container bolsters and re-do the side rivet detail.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/554471_10150751952936240_798280511_n.jpg[\img]
[img]http://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/388094_10150524433256240_526739514_n.jpg









One side for a fully scratchbuilt CP 52' gondola. Sorry, I haven't done the ends yet so it hasn't been assembled into a full car yet. If you want I can post photos and more information when I do.









Various parts of an extremely heavily modified MicroEngineering steel trestle bridge, that will eventually be installed on my club's layout. The white central "high-clearance" span (where this CN bridge, which will basically only be a scenic element, crossed over the CP mainline) is 100% scratchbuilt.

































The bridge and all of the freight car projects are all based on photos of real subjects.

/only posting because Ed told me to...


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## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Wow, thats gonna look great when you're done. I tried N scale when I got into RR but I figured out I was not interested in modeling. I just like playing with trains and find the "toy" aspect more appealing. At first I was completley put off by the middle rail as well, but I something kept pulling me back. 

Your track works looks really good. Very impressive work.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Some rather impressive work there cv. I can appreciate all the work involved there, as I used to do custom fab work on real cars lots of time involved. Right now doing O scale 3 rail cuz it's what I have, hoping to get it going and post pics soon. Eventually though I do plan on getting an HO setup running.

Carl


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

big ed said:


> I don't believe I have ever seen any pictures of your realistic RR yet.
> Maybe I am not looking in the right place.
> Let me know where to look please. Are they here?
> Do you have a even have a layout?
> A beautifully, scenic layout with super detailed locomotives and structures to accurately represent a real railroad?





cv_acr said:


> Well, gee I didn't realize one had to "prove" oneself in some way to make the observation that railways generally run on 2 rails not 3. And that O-scalers (or European users of Marklin's HO 3-rail track and models) have been working around this for years, saddled with this type of track from the history of the scale.
> 
> And I don't think my comment is that far off the mark, as I've seen photos of O-scale layouts with reasonably nicely done scenery and landscaping, and then there's that track with the extra third rail that detracts from the scene.
> 
> ...


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

big ed said:


> I don't claim to know everything there is to know about anything.


Neither do I.



> What is your opinion on 2 rail O? Can you, do you think, ever achieve a "A beautifully, scenic layout with super detailed locomotives and structures to accurately represent a real railroad?" with 2 rail O?[/COLOR]:


Absolutely. Plenty of fine layouts have been done in O scale. 

It's just 3-rail track, in any scale, that really can't be made to look realistic. Everything around it can look amazing (and there are actually some really incredibly detailed models out there that are available for three rail O, and scenery techniques are pretty much the same in most scales) but the track will always stand out as unrealistic.

And there's plenty of 2-rail toys and cheap, crudely detailed models available, in many scales, that will never look realistic on any type of track.

If one is not interested in the fine scale modeling aspect, that's fine. A hobby is something you do for fun. The original question about converting smaller scale 2-rail models to 3-rail just seemed like an odd step backwards. The effort to rebuild and rewire your equipment would be more involved than the relatively simple circuit required to handle a reversing section on 2-rail track. And since the three rail track in smaller gauges isn't really widely offered you'd be pretty much forced to hand lay it. And there aren't really any track gauges that will allow you to measure that the position of the centre rail is within tolerance. That all seems like an incredible amount of effort to avoid a small complication and end up with a result that is deliberately unrealistic.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

cv_acr said:


> Neithe
> 
> If one is not interested in the fine scale modeling aspect, that's fine. A hobby is something you do for fun. The original question about converting smaller scale 2-rail models to 3-rail just seemed like an odd step backwards. The effort to rebuild and rewire your equipment would be more involved than the relatively simple circuit required to handle a reversing section on 2-rail track. And since the three rail track in smaller gauges isn't really widely offered you'd be pretty much forced to hand lay it. And there aren't really any track gauges that will allow you to measure that the position of the centre rail is within tolerance. That all seems like an incredible amount of effort to avoid a small complication and end up with a result that is deliberately unrealistic.



I agree.


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## zorba (Aug 6, 2012)

i dont think he was saying that all 3 rail layouts look ugly, just that the 3rd rail can detract from the rest of the layout as it takes away some of the realism.

for me O scale is just too big, regardless of 2 or 3 rails. maybe its because ive always had HO trains to play with when i was a kid, im just drawn to them. i also wouldnt have the space to do much at all with an O layout.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

After 50+ years away from model trains I was able to get involved again.I looked at N.Old eyes could hardly see it.I had HO when I was a kid along with Lionel so I bought a few things.My eyes took that a little better but my fingers couldn't.A lifetime friend knew my love for trains and gave me a Lionel starter set.Eyes and fingers could handl;e that.Why not two rail O?Not enough room.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Three rail just isn't prototypical. That's probably the only reason it isn't more popular. Does it work? Of course and it works very well. Very popular back in the fifties before HO came along. Pete


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Can you give me a ranking of the various scales and gauges that was done in a scientific manner?
I don't know whether O gauge/scale is popular or not.
One model train show a year is held in Savannah,Georgia with a decent number of dealers in all scales.The last four years the dealers that have consistently said they "made money"
were the O gauge dealers.Yes,others did make money but the O people were very pleased.
There are no O gauge dealers in our area.These people come from the Atlanta area,South Carolina and Florida for over 25 years now.
I'm sure there are other interpretations.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

The whole deal on rail types should in reality be only important to the builder/modeler. When you think back on the history of this great addiction (read hobby  ) it started as "toy" trains. Way back they were virtually all 3 railers. Lionel, Marx, Ives, Gilbert from the earliest times were all that way. While we can, for the most part, agree the third rail isn't "prototypically correct" it works. However, there is historical precedent for 3 rail track 










Carl


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

CV would you do a "How TO" on here someplace that shows how to lay model track and build the switches? I would love to know how to do that so it would run right. pete


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Pete, I can try to work something up.


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## mrjcoz (Apr 12, 2011)

that historical photo gave me an idea as i love lionel because of the toy factor,but do not have the space so my big trains only come out at christmas.i also built a holiday layout on foam board on 2 levels in on30.since ho is half o,could track be laid to be a dual gauge on30 o like is done with ho hon30.i realize the one is dc but could it be done?i have seen track with the narrow gauge running down the center,modeling such prototypes could make the third rail moot.i think bemo makes ho/hon30 track and turnouts.so the statement that 3 rail doesn;t look real is not true as it does exist


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

norgale: I started a thread over in the HO Scale section for handlaying track:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=14050


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## Heizer (Sep 20, 2012)

We have the same discussion here in Germany - probably more intensive, as (3 rail) Märklin is very popular. I have seen pretty layouts with the 3 rail track (ballasting and weathering included), however I personally don't like it, too. Opponents here also call it "Pickel-Gleis" (="pimples track" - hope I got the correct english translation!)...

Regards


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

D1566 said:


> Last time I travelled on the London Underground system ... ! However I will agree that is a fairly limited application


yep, same here! lol


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## ColtsKurt (Jan 28, 2012)

I like the O gauge 3 rail. Because that's what my father's train as a boy was. Mine now. I'll stick with the prewar Lionel.

But then, I'm pretty casual about my trains. My interest is in preserving and adding to the family train set, while keeping within the specific era. This year I was able to identify that the train had a whistle, locate and purchase the appropriate controller, and have the whistle cleaned. Can't wait for the grandkids to hear it this Christmas! Hasn't been heard in the past 50 years - possibly ever.


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