# Rivive a weak billboard whistle?



## mikesdaddy

I picked up a billboard steam whistle off Ebay. 



It's all plastic, but in pretty good shape. I hooked it up and it sounded like a coffee grinder!




I took apart the motor, cleaned and lightly oiled it. It's better--no more coffee grinder, but it seems kinda weak.

Is this normal, or do I need to give it some additional care?

Thanks, 
Greg


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## T-Man

If your holes are worn the armature ends may be touching the field. Rubbing would be a visible indication. The copper on the armature plate should be smooth . You need a good electrical connection and the brush and spring tension is important. Brushes get short after use and the sdpring tension goes bad over the years. You need oil on both ends and the side with the impeller is hard to access.

Of course, it just may need to be used. These things sit around for years and you cannot expect them to work like new. After owning a fleet of old steamers I find intersting on how different each motor operates and some are better and quieter than others.


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## tjcruiser

I don't know much about S whistles, but there's likely an impeller in a sound chamber, right? Is it possible there's some debris in there causing the grinding noise?

TJ


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## Big Ed

You guys do know that he bought a BILLBOARD whistle, right?

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2050793

Maybe if the S men were not so busy putting down O gauge they could help some.

Sorry, I looked for some info on repairing them but came up empty handed.


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## tjcruiser

It still has a motor and an impeller though, right?


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> It still has a motor and an impeller though, right?


I don't know I couldn't find any fix it info on them.
No pictures of the guts either, just the billboard side.

I would guess an S person....a real S person would know.


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## Stillakid

*Whistle issues........*

I have 3 of the #566 Whistle units. 2 of them are just like yours. They make a strange sound that I'd swear could be a recording of Ed's rants about me!!!:laugh::laugh:

What I noticed on the unit that works, was that the "Worm Bushing"(part number PA9575) is tighter on the impeller shaft. Also, on 1 of the "Ed Units", the impeller shaft is worn from what I guess was a bad worm bushing.

Also, T-Man was correct, according to the service manual, there are 3 remedies offered for improper operation,

1) Inspect brushes for wear or poor contact and brush springs for proper tension.
2) Clean or polish commutator on Armature Assembly. If motor is still running slow, the armature may need replacing.
3) Check to see if motor is oiled and not binding.

That's the sum total of the info offered up in K-Line American Flyer Complete Sevice Manual(if you need a picture of the page with a breakdown of parts and the motor, let me know!)

Hope that helps


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## tjcruiser

Stillakid said:


> I have 3 of the #566 Whistle units. 2 of them are just like yours. They make a strange sound that I'd swear could be a recording of Ed's rants about me!!!:laugh::laugh:


:laugh:

:appl::smilie_daumenpos::appl:

Sorry, Ed, but that was funny!!!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> I have 3 of the #566 Whistle units. 2 of them are just like yours. They make a strange sound that I'd swear could be a recording of Ed's rants about me!!!:laugh::laugh:
> 
> What I noticed on the unit that works, was that the "Worm Bushing"(part number PA9575) is tighter on the impeller shaft. Also, on 1 of the "Ed Units", the impeller shaft is worn from what I guess was a bad worm bushing.
> 
> Also, T-Man was correct, according to the service manual, there are 3 remedies offered for improper operation,
> 
> 1) Inspect brushes for wear or poor contact and brush springs for proper tension.
> 2) Clean or polish commutator on Armature Assembly. If motor is still running slow, the armature may need replacing.
> 3) Check to see if motor is oiled and not binding.
> 
> That's the sum total of the info offered up in K-Line American Flyer Complete Sevice Manual(if you need a picture of the page with a breakdown of parts and the motor, let me know!)
> 
> Hope that helps


As I stated in the other post Jim it was not you that I was "ranting" about.
Why do you always think automatically that I was referring to you?

I would like to see the service manuals picture if that is possible.
As I find it interesting seeing how stuff works. Be it Z,N,HO,S,O,G or whatever size it is.
Thanks in advance.



tjcruiser said:


> :laugh:
> 
> :appl::smilie_daumenpos::appl:
> 
> Sorry, Ed, but that was funny!!!
> 
> TJ


That was just hilarious TJ.
Just one small thing, I was not "ranting" about him.

You if anyone you should know who flew over the cuckoo's nest, as it was you and the other supreme beings that punished all of the members to a 24 hr editing rule:thumbsdown: over what he did.


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## Stillakid

Ed, I'll try and get a picture of the service/parts blow-up/parts list, on here later today. I'm going to post the metal housing #566, and the plastic housing, #568 or # 23568.


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## T-Man

I found a page for ED, just look at the two on the lower lrft...

For worn bushings repairs, armatures have been fited with rivets if a part number doesn't exists.


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> Ed, I'll try and get a picture of the service/parts blow-up/parts list, on here later today. I'm going to post the metal housing #566, and the plastic housing, #568 or # 23568.


OK, lets see yours too.



T-Man said:


> I found a page for ED, just look at the two on the lower lrft...
> 
> For worn bushings repairs, armatures have been fited with rivets if a part number doesn't exists.


Thanks T.
I wonder which one he has?
The #561 billboard looks a lot different then the 23568, I had a whistle sound a little like a coffee grinder but as it got more use the better it sounded.

On the one you said to view, how important is the part #4 (whistle body assembly) to making the sound? 
If that is cracked could it distort the sound?

What whistle did you get mikesdaddy?


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## Stillakid

Ed, he said that his was...........

"It's all plastic, but in pretty good shape."

The 568 & 23568 are the same according to the service manual.

561? I have the 566's

My Grandchildren are here(all 8 of them), might be late tonight or tomorrow befor I can post pics!


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> Ed, he said that his was...........
> 
> "It's all plastic, but in pretty good shape."
> 
> The 568 & 23568 are the same according to the service manual.
> 
> 561? I have the 566's
> 
> My Grandchildren are here(all 8 of them), might be late tonight or tomorrow befor I can post pics!



Go to T's link, then click on page #1 it shows a #561 billboard, the next page shows the guts.

It is a lot different then the 23568.


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## Stillakid

Ed, the 561 is a diesel billboard horn. Different animal, altogether


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## Reckers

I'm afraid I don't have much to offer---when I bought mine, it worked poorly. After some cleaning and lubrication, though, it worked just fine.

Oh! And this: *O gauge*mumble mumble mumble *O gauge*mumble mumble mumble *O gauge*mumble mumble mumble


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## Reckers

With that out of the way, this site might be of some help to you: http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album212/561_1

It's been a while since I worked on mine; as I recall, it worked poorly when I bought it on ebay. Repairs consisted of clearing the passages in the whistle to allow airflow, a general cleaning and lubrication. After that, it worked just fine. Sorry I can't be more help or offer pictures, but it was a minor repair. I'd also take power into account: if it isn't getting enough volts, it won't work properly.

Best wishes,


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## mikesdaddy

Okay, thanks, guys.

I may clean the armatures, etc. The bushings and springs look fine. Lots of sparking visible when it's running, so that may be part of the problem.

I'll let you know how I make out.

Greg


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## gunrunnerjohn

A 1uF 50V non-polarized capacitor from each brush to common will help a lot too.


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## Reckers

That sparking is a really good indicator the armature needs to be polished down and the brushes smoothed out. It's like the wheels on your track: if it's working right, you don't see any sparks. Sparks are an indication the connection is being broken by uneven surfaces or (insulating) dirt. If your connection is constantly being broken, the motor won't get up to full speed.


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## mikesdaddy

LOL, I figured out the problem. When I took the motor apart to clean and lube it, I reversed the wires.....it was running backwards! Switching the wires made it sound like it should!


Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7fk4-fqAFo


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## tjcruiser

Hooray! I just love happy endings!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> Ed, the 561 is a diesel billboard horn. Different animal, altogether


cool a diesel sound?
I might look for one of those for my O layout.:thumbsup:
Did you ever hear it?



mikesdaddy said:


> LOL, I figured out the problem. When I took the motor apart to clean and lube it, I reversed the wires.....it was running backwards! Switching the wires made it sound like it should!
> 
> 
> Check it out:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7fk4-fqAFo


:laugh: What does it sound like with the wires on wrong?


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## T-Man

Good job !

Plan D look for crossed wires or reversed turning impeller.



Got It!:thumbsup:


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