# just got back from Home Depot, was looking at plywood



## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

saw they had some 13 dollar sheets when I went to the site, and when I saw them in person, I wouldn't even buy a sheet of the junk to build a dog house. knots every 2 inches all of the board. Did find a nice sanded sheet for 20 bucks. Haven't bought any yet (someone buy my heljan auto unloading facility...hint hint), but I think I'll shop around a little and see what everypne else has. the 2x2's and 1x3's they had looked pretty good tho, and they were cheap


----------



## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Home ripoff stinks. Is there a lowes near you?


----------



## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

yeh, looking there next. I'm forgoing the foam insulation sheet (because of costs) so I want to get something that already has a nice surface to it


----------



## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I used 3/4" plywood for all my roadbed. Probably went through at least 50 sheets of it.


----------



## DCHO (Dec 3, 2013)

I did some pricing out at Menards and Lowe's today, ran into a guy at Lowe's getting started on an O gauge set. The guy walking the aisle said the 3 other people in earlier today were all looking for materials to start model railroads. 

And my experience today was the Lowe's wood was in much better shape with a little more cost, except the plywood at Menards was better. I don't have a truck and they didn't have one for rent or offer delivery, or I'd be sitting out the incoming snow getting the benchwork done.


----------



## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

have you checked lumber and prices at your local lumber yard. i've got one 2 blocks away that will compete with the big chain stores all day on prices and you don't even have to look at there lumber, it's all nice. #2 better than lowes select, prime, or anything else they got!

can't compete on tools though. he buys buy the piece price, lowes by the railcar price.
shame, cause he makes less per tool than they do.


----------



## 05Slowbalt (Dec 19, 2011)

Two good places is if there are any Amish lumber yards around you (not joking) or I used 7/16" OSB. Have had no problems.


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

When you're looking at the foam - ask them if they have any "culls" they are broken 4x8's (sometimes BARELY broken) that they sell at 85% off.


----------



## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Another fan of OSB. 

Scott I wish the Lowe's and Home Depots here sold "culls". I needed half a sheet of 1/2 inch plywood, there was a sheet with one of the corners crunched, Lowe's wouldn't sell it. HD wouldn't sell damaged foam boards.


----------



## ZebraCakez (Mar 26, 2011)

Lowe's vs. HD when it comes to materials quality is a total toss-up, and usually it isn't that great at either. A local lumber yard will always have a higher quality if you can get to one, and the difference in price usually is low enough to justify the purchase.

You don't need a top choice finish, but you definitely want sanded. 

A tip: buying one or two extra 1X3's (or better yet 2X4's ) will allow you to throw a few extra support braces across the top. Then you can save a little cash by going with a thinner sheet of ply (which is FAR more expensive per piece), as it will be better supported against sag (your table sections will also weigh less). I used all 2X4's, and made sure to brace it well. When it came time to pick out my ply, I got a beautiful sheet of 11/32 with a fully sanded surface for $13. It worked perfectly. My sections are very strong, do not sag, and are actually pretty light.


----------



## 05Slowbalt (Dec 19, 2011)

ZebraCakez said:


> Lowe's vs. HD when it comes to materials quality is a total toss-up, and usually it isn't that great at either. A local lumber yard will always have a higher quality if you can get to one, and the difference in price usually is low enough to justify the purchase.
> 
> You don't need a top choice finish, but you definitely want sanded.
> 
> A tip: buying one or two extra 1X3's (or better yet 2X4's ) will allow you to throw a few extra support braces across the top. Then you can save a little cash by going with a thinner sheet of ply (which is FAR more expensive per piece), as it will be better supported against sag (your table sections will also weigh less). I used all 2X4's, and made sure to brace it well. When it came time to pick out my ply, I got a beautiful sheet of 11/32 with a fully sanded surface for $13. It worked perfectly. My sections are very strong, do not sag, and are actually pretty light.


I agree you can buy two 2x4x8 and a 7/16 4x8 sheet of OSB cheaper then a 3/4 4x8 sheet of plywood.


----------



## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

I hadn't planned on going 3/4's. figured 1/2 or a tad less was fine like you guys said. I'm putting cross braces every 2 feet


----------



## underthetire (Jun 6, 2013)

I buy hollow core doors

Sent from my G-Tab Quantum using Tapatalk


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

underthetire said:


> I buy hollow core doors
> 
> Sent from my G-Tab Quantum using Tapatalk


Definitely another option. If there is a Salvation Army or Habitat for Humanity store nearby you can find used ones cheap.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Underthetire, they don't swell up? I know installing them as doors, they suck. How it would effect a layout I don't have a clue. I guess if they are sealed (painted) completely they would work fine?! How long have you ad the layout?


----------



## underthetire (Jun 6, 2013)

Have not noticed much swelling. I know when I have issues with doors, its the rest of the house moving, as shown by cracks in the drywall. Its N scale though, and my tracks are soldered and bonded down, not nailed. Don't know if that helps or not, but 30 bucks for a 36" door was a whole lot cheaper than decent plywood, and the doors are smooth as can be and already primed. Used doors would be a good cheap/free option.

Sent from my G-Tab Quantum using Tapatalk


----------



## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Here is a quick sketch of a 4 x 8 train table. Always pick up a 2x4 and sight down the edge of it to make sure it's reasonably straight and not twisted. Each board will have a crown which is the top of a slight curve in the board. Always nail the board with the crown UP. That applies to any piece of lumber no matter what size it is, no matter what you are building.
Use three inch dry wall screws to assemble the table. This way you can make changes if you need to without banging nails out and bending them. Five eighths screws for the plywood top to the frame. Drill a pilot hole for the three inch screws but that's not needed for the 5/8th screws.
Get grade B-C plywood. It will be cheaper than A-B or A-C and your going to cover it all up or paint it anyway. You'll also be drilling tons of holes in it so a 'best grade' piece of wood is a waste of money. Use the B side to put the trains on.
I noted that the heighth of the table is 48" and that's if your a tall person like 6' or over. Generally if you make your table waist high you'll be very comfortable with it. Don't make it low for little ones. Get some benches for them to stand on if they are involved. Your back won't take to a low table at all and wiring is underneath the table. You'll lose interest fast if the whole thing is uncomfortable for you. Your building it,make it right for you. Pete


----------



## ZebraCakez (Mar 26, 2011)

norgale said:


> Here is a quick sketch of a 4 x 8 train table. Always pick up a 2x4 and sight down the edge of it to make sure it's reasonably straight and not twisted. Each board will have a crown which is the top of a slight curve in the board. Always nail the board with the crown UP. That applies to any piece of lumber no matter what size it is, no matter what you are building.
> Use three inch dry wall screws to assemble the table. This way you can make changes if you need to without banging nails out and bending them. Five eighths screws for the plywood top to the frame.
> Get grade B-C plywood. It will be cheaper than A-B or A-C and your going to cover it all up or paint it anyway. You'll also be drilling tons of holes in it so a 'best grade' piece of wood is a waste of money. Use the B side to put the trains on.
> I noted that the heighth of the table is 48" and that's if your a tall person like 6' or over. Generally if you make your table waist high you'll be very comfortable with it. Don't make it low for little ones. Get some benches for them to stand on if they are involved. Your back won't take to a low table at all and wiring is underneath the table. You'll lose interest fast if the whole thing is uncomfortable for you. Your building it,make it right for you. Pete



If I may make an additional suggestion, moving the legs in from the corners (I came in 18") along the 8' dimension will better distribute the weight and prevent sagging/warping.


----------



## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

My drawing doesn't show it but there are leg brases on the ends too. If you move the legs in there won't be any frame to screw the braces to. This is very sturdy and mine didn't sag in the middle at all and I used the same table for three years running. However if this is a problem for you then put another leg on each side in the middle. Easy enough to do. Pete


----------



## ZebraCakez (Mar 26, 2011)

norgale said:


> My drawing doesn't show it but there are leg brases on the ends too. If you move the legs in there won't be any frame to screw the braces to. This is very sturdy and mine didn't sag in the middle at all and I used the same table for three years running. However if this is a problem for you then put another leg on each side in the middle. Easy enough to do. Pete


I was speaking of moving the legs in the 8' dimension (along the 8' side), not the 4' side.

In your drawing you have the 45° braces coming off the legs and meeting the frame. Move the legs in so the ends of those braces that meet the frame are closer together. This better centers the weight over the legs and reduces the length of any unsupported runs/spans (which is where warping and deflection can occur).

One can say that train tables only need to be so strong, but what I am saying requires no extra materials, it is just a different way to assemble what is already there. I was just trying to add to your ideas/drawing, none of which I disagree with.


----------



## Ml-toys (Dec 19, 2013)

Has anyone used 1x12 planks screwed down for under the foam?


----------



## Just-a-Guy (Feb 11, 2013)

As a former general contractor, long moved into another line of work (housing depression and all that), I have found that the quality of lumber at Home Depot is remarkably bad. Really, it's amazing. I've purchased many 2*4's, 2*6's, etc., both regular and treated, and had them warp and split in a short time (even installed). I've purchased T1-11 from HD and had the stuff turn into a "U" shape in a matter of days. Things you build using that lumber will quickly move from being square and plumb to being something only a shipbuilder could comprehend. I don't know how they do it, I guess buying stuff grown under less than ideal conditions and cut and dried improperly etc. I despise the place. 

Luckily for me, I have a high quality lumber supplier nearby -- these guys: 

http://www.condonlumber.net/

Almost any local yard is going to supply better quality lumber (plywood especially).


----------



## ZebraCakez (Mar 26, 2011)

Just-a-Guy said:


> As a former general contractor, long moved into another line of work (housing depression and all that), I have found that the quality of lumber at Home Depot is remarkably bad. Really, it's amazing. I've purchased many 2*4's, 2*6's, etc., both regular and treated, and had them warp and split in a short time (even installed). I've purchased T1-11 from HD and had the stuff turn into a "U" shape in a matter of days. Things you build using that lumber will quickly move from being square and plumb to being something only a shipbuilder could comprehend. I don't know how they do it, I guess buying stuff grown under less than ideal conditions and cut and dried improperly etc. I despise the place.
> 
> Luckily for me, I have a high quality lumber supplier nearby -- these guys:
> 
> ...


Couldn't possibly agree more. I'm a carpenter, I deal with it every day. I've long given up on Lowe's and HD for anything more then a closet pole.

And as for reasoning behind it, I think you hit the nail right on the head when you stated improper growing/processing. I think mainly it's an issue of time, these trees are rushed through life (grown on huge tree farms) and into the saw mill so fast that the fibers just don't ever really have a chance to fully form and bond.

Then it gets thrown around, left in the rain to saturate on a loading dock and then stored in bundles at Lowe's where it dries unevenly and occasionally gets slammed into by the kid driving the forklift with his head phones in his ears. 

2X4's you can play hockey with and plywood that looks like a stack of Pringles, that's what you get at the big box stores.


----------



## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

there is still a couple of lumber yards in the area, I'm going to go check them out here soon as well. appreciate that info


----------



## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

From what I understand a lot of the borg ply is Chinese. Voids, overlaying ply producing "humps", lousy glue etc.
Lowe's now sells "white wood". I can't find any books that describe white wood trees. That stuff is soft, you can almost push a nail thru it. Ok that's a bit exaggerated but you get my point.
The quality of building materials today is terrible and it's not cheap either.


----------



## Phillaz (Jan 20, 2014)

I'am just starting my layout finally got a place here I won't get kicked out of. I used 1/4 plywood and put soundboard on top. You can push a spike or pin right in and seems to hold tight. soundboard was $11, sheet and is used to keep sound down when put on walls.


----------



## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Phillaz said:


> I'am just starting my layout finally got a place here I won't get kicked out of. I used 1/4 plywood and put soundboard on top. You can push a spike or pin right in and seems to hold tight. soundboard was $11, sheet and is used to keep sound down when put on walls.


1/4" plywood? You'll be sorry for that.


----------



## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

1/4 ply with a 1x cross brace every 2 feet will be fine. I'm not even sure if I'd even put one every 2 feet, maybe just 1 cross brace in the middle and see how it goes. Remember you're just having to support a *model* RR and not a real one.

FWIW and IMHO, YMMV, OSB works just as well as ply and as a bonus is usually less expensive too. Why pay for a smooth, sanded surface if you are going to cover it with extruded foam and/or ground cover/scenery?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've seen layouts with 1/4" plywood, it wasn't an issue. They add foam to allow surface detail, which helps as well.


----------



## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

I run 1/4 inch on my o gauge layout with no problems. Plywood was slightly warped, but nothing the wood screws couldn't handle.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bone1977 (Jan 17, 2014)

I've always found Menard's to have the highest quality wood of the three big stores and the friendliest employees hands down. When I bought the plywood, panels, and foam they had it all cut and packed nicely just as I asked. The Menard's by me also has a nice radial arm saw with extended booms to help cut the boards. We had a Lumber 88 close down and Menard's really stepped up their inventory to help cover the loss.


----------



## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Just remember that sometime you may have to kneel on top of your layout or even stand on it for some reason. Also if you ever have to move the layout, (never say never) it needs to be built so it will stay together when it's lifted or slid across the floor. For my work it's always been a 2x4 frame and half inch plywood with three equally spaced cross members under the plywood. Maybe that's a little bit heavier than needed but I've never had a table break or come apart when being moved. I could stand on it anywhere too.
Too heavy is better than too light. Pete


----------



## Phillaz (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks, I did support it every 2'. I was telling a earlier post about an other top than foam cost less.


----------



## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

if this weather ever breaks, I'm ready to get the wood. went and bought the paint for the room yesterday, gonna paint it this weekend. went with a light blue, thought it would make a good sky color


----------



## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Just thought I would chime in on this subject since it's been three years ago that I started my layout.
First off, you should know that my "train room" is on one side of my 30' X 40' heated garage in my back yard. It has fully insulated walls and ceiling, but an unfinished concrete floor. It is heated via a forced air gas furnace and the temperature never goes below 45 degrees in the winter or above 75 in the summer.
I started with a basic 4X8 sheet of plywood. Not really knowing how long or how deep I would get into the hobby, I decided to simply set the sheet on top of two card tables, side by side. Because of this, I realized the plywood should probably be reasonably heavy due to constant fluctuations in temperature so I went with 5/8" exterior grade. I screwed 2X4's to the underside to eliminate warping, then topped it off with 1" pink foam board.
After the first year I became fully HOOKED and had totally filled the original 4X8 so I decided to expand the layout to 10X10 by adding two feet to one of the long sides, four feet to the other long side, and one foot to each side down the edges..
The support underneath consists of four sets of steel legs that are normally used to build garage workbenches along with additional 2X4 and 2X2 bracing.
I'm confident you could park a car on top of the whole thing. At least hold an elephant dance!
I'm pleased to say there has been NO warping, sagging, or any other change to the structure in over two years. During the winter months the interior temperature of the building is only 45 degrees until I turn up the furnace. I typically (hopefully) work on the layout 3 to 5 times each week, so the temperature goes up and down like a yo-yo with no issues or warping to the bench work. The top surface is 34 1/2" from the floor and it only deviates by 1/4" around the whole layout.
I guess the bottom line is that you can really never build your train table too solid. Overkill is the safe route if you plan to enjoy it for many, many years like myself.
Have fun, and stay warm,
Bob


----------

