# Lionel Milk Car 1950's - Newbie Question



## jwelsh9309

Hi Folks,

My 11-year-old son and I just inherited my uncle's Lionel train set, and we're Newbies.  I've spent many hours rewiring just about everything. We built a basic track and we're now experimenting with the Milk Car.

We have no instructions, and tested it by placing the car solo on the coupler/uncoupler track, and it works. Problem: currently the piece of track is connected to all the other track, so it too is wired to the variable output "U"/common of the transformer. This means we can't operate the Milk Man when the car is connected to the engine - because the train is moving!

Does the piece of Milk Car track have to be insulated from the rest of the track and connected to the 14 or 18v constant terminals? Also, are there any special clips we need to connect the metal platform to the track to keep it from moving?

thx!


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## Big Ed

jwelsh9309 said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> My 11-year-old son and I just inherited my uncle's Lionel train set, and we're Newbies.  I've spent many hours rewiring just about everything. We built a basic track and we're now experimenting with the Milk Car.
> 
> We have no instructions, and tested it by placing the car solo on the coupler/uncoupler track, and it works. Problem: currently the piece of track is connected to all the other track, so it too is wired to the variable output "U"/common of the transformer. This means we can't operate the Milk Man when the car is connected to the engine - because the train is moving!
> 
> Does the piece of Milk Car track have to be insulated from the rest of the track and connected to the 14 or 18v constant terminals? Also, are there any special clips we need to connect the metal platform to the track to keep it from moving?
> 
> thx!


I never fooled with the milk car setup but I believe it was designed to work with a 6019 connector or USC section. Most of them used these.
EDIT..........,
I'm not telling you to buy these, but a picture reference for you maybe one was included with your things?

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-LIONEL-6019-R...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3cae583313


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## Big Ed

Yes it does use the 6019.

I found this.
No. 3412 AUTOMATIC MILK CAR

Install the unloading platform provided with the Milk Car next to a remote control track section, as shown in Figure 19. When used with "O" track the floor of the platform should be inserted into the top "A" slots in the frame; when used with "027" track the Floor should be fitted into the bottom slots "B" Simply pull out the floor platform and insert it into the proper slots and the corresponding notches on the side of the framework facing the track.

The miniature milk cans furnished with the car are loaded into the car by hand through the hatch in the roof. (See inset in Figure 19). Do not try to load any more than 7 cans into the car. Press "Unload" button of the controller to unload cans. Adjust track voltage until milkman unloads the cans vigorously but without knocking them over. The small magnets in the bottom of the cans help to keep them upright. 











By the way welcome to the site. Ask away we all will try to answer.

Edit.., I just reread your question and it seems that you have the "uncoupler" track that should be the 6019. Just hook it up as per the instructions above.

By the way whats the number of your milk car and what else did you inherit?
We all love pictures especially of older trains, show us what you got.

Edit again....., Did you get true O gauge track or O/27 track? 
O gauge measures 11/16" high and O/27 is 7/16" high if you purchase more track make sure you get what you all ready have. As O is higher.


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## Stillakid

And just in case you have other cars that might not have instructions;

http://www.thortrains.net/manual4.htm

http://www.thortrains.net/manualx.htm

Welcome!!!
Jim


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## Wabashbud

Wow, what great responses. This is indeed a great forum.


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## T-Man

Welcome to the MTF.
Normally new members start with questions which is fine. but if you have a favorite piece by all means show it. We can't be experts in everthing and another view is always refreshing. My advantage is finding answers faster, or a least that is what I believe.


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## jwelsh9309

*Milk Car operation*

Many thanks everyone. Maybe I'm not clear on the operation of the milk car, are you supposed to eject cans while the train is in motion? Since the 6019 section takes track voltage you can't stop the train to eject the cans - that's where my confusion came from.

Is this correct?

Also, our milk car is 3472. Unfortunately, the milk car doesn't work now. Some insulation has come off of the wires, so it has to go down to the work bench for some rewiring!


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## Stillakid

*!949 Milk Car*

From K-Line;

(also has the later model info and there was also a 1947 and 1948 model)


View attachment 3525


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View attachment 3527


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## Big Ed

jwelsh9309 said:


> Many thanks everyone. Maybe I'm not clear on the operation of the milk car, are you supposed to eject cans while the train is in motion? Since the 6019 section takes track voltage you can't stop the train to eject the cans - that's where my confusion came from.
> 
> Is this correct?
> 
> Also, our milk car is 3472. Unfortunately, the milk car doesn't work now. Some insulation has come off of the wires, so it has to go down to the work bench for some rewiring!


No you don't eject the cans while the train is moving.:laugh:
That's what the loading/unloading platform is for.
You do have the platform, right?


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## jwelsh9309

big ed said:


> No you don't eject the cans while the train is moving.:laugh:
> That's what the loading/unloading platform is for.
> You do have the platform, right?


Yes, I have the platform, but should the 6019 track be insulated from track voltage? I'm still not getting ithwell: Our layout is a simple oval, and if I apply enough voltage (variable "U" + Common terminals) to get the milk car to operate, the rest of the train will be moving. Do I need to build a spur that is insulated from the oval? 

Sorry to belabor what has to be a simple thing.


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## Big Ed

jwelsh9309 said:


> Yes, I have the platform, but should the 6019 track be insulated from track voltage? I'm still not getting ithwell: Our layout is a simple oval, and if I apply enough voltage (variable "U" + Common terminals) to get the milk car to operate, the rest of the train will be moving. Do I need to build a spur that is insulated from the oval?
> 
> Sorry to belabor what has to be a simple thing.


It's not a dumb question. Now I would like to know too. I hear what your asking and in all the manuals I have it doesn't tell you that.

T-man help???

I never had this car so I personally never fooled with one you do have the RCS controller? Like in this picture.









I am going to further research this.


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## T-Man

Stopping the train easy. The eunit has to work so the engine is in neutral. Otherwise you will need a separate transformer or have one that has power for accessories to replace it.

You can install a switch and turn the power to the center rail off to disengage the engine. The with a separate feed from the transformer attach it to the 6019. You can make it fullproof by using a single pole double throw spdt. That waY only one will work.


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## jwelsh9309

Okay T-Man, Big Ed, I'll install a separate cut-out switch. (I do have the RCS controllers) I just thought I was missing something! I replaced all the wiring in the milk car, and fixed the track, now everything is working!

Thanks again!


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## T-Man

I will look at the 6019 to see how to isolate it. It may help if have the transformer model number.


The car operates by contact with two shoes on the trucks. The track just sits there with the wire fed under the platform.









This is the 6019 in a notch for position.










The red circles show the points of disconnection to run a separate power, if you can't have your engine in idle.


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## jwelsh9309

Thanks everyone! I installed a SPDT (?) switch to switch the "U", variable voltage from the transformer to either the track or the "3rd rail" of the milk car. So we drive the milk car onto the platform, throw the switch to send the power to the 6019 then we can use the button to eject the cans. One of you mentioned E-units, and so I did some reading, and what you said made a lot of sense. We really don't need the switch because if you put the loco in Neutral, then you can use the milk car button to eject the cans! (We're slow, but getting there.) 

More questions coming, the e-unit on my loco is sketchy, barrel loader questions, but we're having a lot of fun.

Glad to be on the forum.
Cheers, jeffrey & Matthew


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## T-Man

I am glad it worked. I normally try out any suggestions to prove it out. 
I don't have a barrel car so you are on your own there. Big Ed may have one.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> I am glad it worked. I normally try out any suggestions to prove it out.
> I don't have a barrel car so you are on your own there. Big Ed may have one.


Like the milk car, I never had a barrel unloading car. Yet.


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## servoguy

Here is a set of instructions from long ago that shows you how to wire the operating track section to be powered all the time. http://www.thortrains.net/manualx.htm

The normal operation of the milk car assumes your loco has a 4 position E relay: forward, neutral, reverse, neutral, and that you would stop the train with the loco in neutral so the operating track was powered. Not all locos have the 4 position E relay. Do you have the E relay turned so the loco goes both forward and reverse? If the E relay is turned off, the E relay will not cycle. Check the instructions for the operation of the E relay.
Bruce Baker


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## rkenney

*3462 Milk Car*

Hi everyone, New to this forum and I stumbled upon this thread.

No one seems to have mentioned that the 6019 track section is not designed for the milk platform. It contains the center magnet which is unnecessary for one. The correct track section was originally the RCS track which was replaced by the UCS track.

It fits the milk platform correctly and most platforms had a strip of cloth electrical tape which prevented inadvertent contact with the screw terminals which will be hidden when it is all assembled.

The other thing about the milk platform is the platform height, two sets of slots change the height to acccomodate O or O27 track.

Looking forward to reading all the great posts, hope this helps someone!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Hi, welcome to the forum. Good point about the track section, that one is a better choice strictly for the milk car.

I solved the issue totally by converting a milk car to command operation, so I can toss cans out anywhere on the layout. Look out for flying milk cans!


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## sjm9911

But what if you add something opposite the milk stand? If I had the choice I would use the tracks with the magnet. You never know what you might add.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I don't understand the question.


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## T-Man

The 6019 works. With a magnet I can have a little man pop out to say HI. My NYC Boxcar.

I do have the operational tracks without magnets but they are scarce compared to the 6019. I do not see many for sale at shows. They would look better and a Marx car could use the track.. Mine always derails on the magnet.


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## BigAl56

You can use any control track section to operate the milk car. There are notches in the platform base to accommodate either. With the O27 6019 the control is hardwired to the track so you have to slip the controller under the platform unless you want to resolder the wires. The Center magnet is not required to operate the milk car but makes no difference if you use a post 1948 track that includes one. 

Lionel originally made the RCS sans magnet before magnetic couplers became the norm. After Lionel switched over to magnetic couplers as standard around 1949 the UCS with a center magnet (the U stands for universal) became the standard O control track. One reason to use the older RCS is they are dirt cheap as they are less desirable because they do not have a center magnet for magnetic couplers. You can often find them in bargain bins at shows for a buck or less.
I have a few and yes they come in handy for the milk car and other dump car locations where I'm using the early style dump cars and not interested in uncoupling.


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## gunrunnerjohn

That's a good reason to use the RCS tracks, I hate they if the car is moving and you want to trigger the function, it uncouples the car as well!  I have a couple of things, like the MTH Helicopter car, that I like to trigger moving, but it's pretty difficult with the UCS track.


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