# N-scale track plan - comments welcome



## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

Hello. I was hoping for anyone’s thoughts or ideas on my track plan. It is the first whole room that I can use and want to make the best of it. A drawing is attached but it is not to scale yet, just an idea at this point and I hope you can read it. Here’s some background: It’s an N-scale layout for a basement room, so I believe most of it will fit. The space is 9’ by 11.5’. There is a window at the top of my drawing with 3’ to the left and 4’ to the right and I need to be able to get to the window. I figure no more than 1.5’ deep in front of the window. The closet is my workshop. I want visitors to be able to easily walk into the space and after many benchwork versions I have come back to this one as a good use of the space. The peninsula is planned to be 3.5’ by 7’. Elevations are in the little squares – the mainline is all on one level (46” for now) and the red branch line basically keeps going up and up. I’d like to maintain at least 30” isle width. 

I enjoy continuous running trains so I can watch them go by while I am farting around in the train room. I am also looking for something that one or two folks can operate. Note the two staging tracks at the top of the layout (in the tunnel). 

Anyway, any ideas are appreciated. What do you think about the yard lead? Any other ideas where I can stick that? Do the sidings make sense and are operable? How about the reverse loop in the upper right? Is that worth the trouble to build/wire-up? How about the end of the red branch line at the right? Good use of space/trackage there? (It’s a coal company and a coal trestle over there.) How about modular construction? 

Thanks all!
Jeff


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

You indeed have an interesting drawing to work from.However,when you start redrawing it with actual measurements,you'll find out that some items won't fit.Two things strike me right from the start...

-your yard will not fit...first,your drawing shows very steep turnout angles wich aren't realistic.Real turnouts are going to require a lot more space so you won't have as much storage tracks left as your drawing suggests.Also,the turntable/roundhouse setup seems pretty downsized on your drawing.

-the other point that struck me is your mailine...you want to see trains running and yet you hide most of your main inside a very long tunnel.You should try to avoid very long tunnels unless you design removeable mountains (or else)...what if you have a major derailment in it or your tracks need repair/cleaning?Also,turnouts inside a tunnel aren't a good idea unless you can actually reach them should a problem occur.

But you still have a great starting point.By the way,I started building my eleventh redesigned plan and still,I'm redoing areas as I go along.There's no "perfect" plan.Come back as many times you wish,we'll give you improvement ideas as you go.......


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

And if you want to see the trains while farting around, with a long underground line you won't see them at all?


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## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

*Thanks Brakeman.*

My last layout was 2.5' by 3' and folded into an Ikea wardrobe cabinet and I jammed a lot into it. Too much and I swore not to do that again. I need to draw it to scale.

The long tunnel seemed a decent way to get the hidden staging tracks in there. But you're right - it kills me to think about a train spending so much time going through that tunnel. So I don't think about it.

I'll see what I can tweak.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Could you possibly run the staging tracks underneath your layout slightly? Could you put in a helix going down off of the loop where you have the track coming out of the tunnel? Then you could keep that mainline out of a tunnel and elevate the mainline slightly where the mainline would be in a tunnel.?

Just a thought.
Lots of folks put staging underneath the layout because its not always easy to hide it in with the rest of the layout.


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## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

*Thanks Joed*

Yeah, I am thinking about maybe the staging tracks coming down from left tunnel entrance (remove the rvs loop) and then heading under the layout to the right (under the end of the red branch at far right). They would dead end under there. I should be able to get 3-4 6ft tracks under there.


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## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

*Track plan version 2*










Hello again. I have made changes to the track plan based on some good feedback. What do you think? Here are some of the bigger changes in version 2:

I eliminated the very long tunnel with the three staging tracks. I’d like to see more of the running trains. 

I eliminated the reverse loop. Now the left entrance to what was the reverse loop goes down to three staging tracks under the highest part of the layout over on the right. I am hoping to get about 5 to 6 inches of space between the layout and the staging tracks. Hopefully that is enough for N-scale. And maybe 3-4 foot staging tracks.

I removed a couple of yard tracks to make the yard an easier fit. This removed a few switches (at least one crossover) and I made the turntable and roundhouse larger. I also moved the access to the engine facilities away from the yard lead, and lengthened the lead. 

Removed a couple of unrealistic switchbacks to some industries. 

Comments welcome.

Jeff


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Love the overall plan/shelf style layout

If you put an additional downward loop into your peninsula (like a helix) you could gain back your staging on a lower level, or even run a track out into the closet and have a small yard in there. just give yourself a run-around track so engines can switch ends of the train if they enter the yard engine first.

I'd draw all of the curves, etc to scale as well. If this is N-scale, I'd be willing you can get more run out of that space. I don't think the scenes need to be so deep and a 4' turn-around loop is HUGE for N-scale. Pretty sure most n-scale rolling stock with fit a 12 inch minimum radius. Cars look better going through bigger curves, so go as big as you can on the visible curves. For anything hidden or a turnaround you can use up much less space by using the 12" min radius.

A 12" deep scene in N-scale is the equivalent of a 24" deep scene in HO scale. You probably want to try to limit reach-in (max depth) to about 36" (30" is better) You'll have to lean over the track to clean/detail things so anything deeper than that makes it pretty tough unless you're really tall.

If you have a dedicated room for this and want room to expand, have you ever considered a second level? You can double your mainline run in the same footprint. A Helix is easy to build.


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## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

*double decker*



sstlaure said:


> Love the overall plan/shelf style layout
> 
> If you put an additional downward loop into your peninsula (like a helix) you could gain back your staging on a lower level, or even run a track out into the closet and have a small yard in there. just give yourself a run-around track so engines can switch ends of the train if they enter the yard engine first.
> 
> ...


Yeah a double decker with a big 'ole yard under that window wall would be nice. Hhmmmmmmmmm.... I'll have to think about that.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

While you're in your thinking/designing phase,I think it's time you decide what type of trains you'd like to operate on this layout.This decision will dictate what your minimum curve radiuses will have to be.

Loco manufacturers recommend minimum radiuses for their models,but be aware that these suggested minimum curves are mandatory so that they don't derail.They won't necessarily look good at it.As an example,Athearn calls for 12" rad. curves for their Big Boy...while it can handle it,it looks terrible doing so with a lot of overhang.Sixteen inches is a more realistic radius for them,more is even better.My personal fleet is made of big steamers (Big Boy,Challengers,Cabforwards,Northern,etc) so I had to design large curves to my layout (15.5" min).This eats up a lot of landscape in a hurry so that I can't have as many tracks as I originally wanted,but that was a choice I had to make a while ago.

As a guide to your decision...a few "recommended" radiuses...
Four axle diesels and very small steamers (0-6-0,etc)...9 3/4" in
Moderately sized six axle diesels (SD38,SD40) will handle 9 3/4" curves but look much better on 11"+ curves.
Big six axle diesels (AC4400,SD80-90) will operate a lot easier on 12"+ curves.
Big non-articulated steamers (2-8-4,4-8-2,4-8-4,2-10-2) will run fairly well on 14"+ curves.Then there are the articulateds...some will handle pretty tight curves but all of them will look right on 15"+ curves.

You may not be able to decide right now,so my suggestion is that you design the largest curves space allows,just in case....

Also,I've noticed that your actual plan lacks a way to turn trains around outside the turntable.Be aware that turntable turn locos around,not trains.Also,with the exception of the Walthers 130' turntable (out of stock every where),no actual N scale turntable offered can turn engines longer than about 8 1/2" long.an N scale Challenger is ten inches long......


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## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

*loco collection so far...*



Brakeman Jake said:


> While you're in your thinking/designing phase,I think it's time you decide what type of trains you'd like to operate on this layout.This decision will dictate what your minimum curve radiuses will have to be.
> 
> Loco manufacturers recommend minimum radiuses for their models,but be aware that these suggested minimum curves are mandatory so that they don't derail.They won't necessarily look good at it.As an example,Athearn calls for 12" rad. curves for their Big Boy...while it can handle it,it looks terrible doing so with a lot of overhang.Sixteen inches is a more realistic radius for them,more is even better.My personal fleet is made of big steamers (Big Boy,Challengers,Cabforwards,Northern,etc) so I had to design large curves to my layout (15.5" min).This eats up a lot of landscape in a hurry so that I can't have as many tracks as I originally wanted,but that was a choice I had to make a while ago.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Most of the collection is 4-axle, since my last layout was 2.5'x3.5'. I have an 2-8-0 (I think that's right) and a SD-40 that would not run on that layout with the tight curves but I want them to run on the new one. And I'd like to run some larger 6-axle locos someday. I was thinking 15" outside the tunnels and at least 12 inche radius inside. Maybe 13" based on what your comments.


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## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

Brakeman Jake said:


> While you're in your thinking/designing phase,I think it's time you decide what type of trains you'd like to operate on this layout.This decision will dictate what your minimum curve radiuses will have to be.
> 
> Loco manufacturers recommend minimum radiuses for their models,but be aware that these suggested minimum curves are mandatory so that they don't derail.They won't necessarily look good at it.As an example,Athearn calls for 12" rad. curves for their Big Boy...while it can handle it,it looks terrible doing so with a lot of overhang.Sixteen inches is a more realistic radius for them,more is even better.My personal fleet is made of big steamers (Big Boy,Challengers,Cabforwards,Northern,etc) so I had to design large curves to my layout (15.5" min).This eats up a lot of landscape in a hurry so that I can't have as many tracks as I originally wanted,but that was a choice I had to make a while ago.
> 
> ...


I have that Walthers turntable kit still in the box, for years now. That's one reason I am trying to fit a turntable into the plan.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The reason behind my comments is that even when sun is shining,I like to be ready for the rain.You don't have a big steamer yet but may get attracted to them in the future...or...what if someone offers you one as a gift?

Fifteen inches curves are very nice in N scale and should accomodate just about anything (that I know of).Though Athearn specify 12" for their Big Boy,I'd say 13" is safer if you can have them in areas you can't see.Bachmann call for a 15" curve for their heavy 4-8-2 but mine handles 13" without a sweat.

The Walthers 130' turntable is a jewel with its programming features.The club has one in operation...absolutely impressive.But it has one drawback...with its matching roundhouse,it eats up a lot of landscape.I suggest you draw it "to scale" in your next drawings.


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## jtc (Nov 15, 2012)

*Now drawn to scale...*

Hello, here is what happened after I used XTrkCAD to draw the track plan. Most of it seemed to work out. The curves are13-15 inch radius, with the 15 inch curves outside the tunnels. Couple of things that did change:

Lost the roundhouse. Maybe I’ll use a one or two stall engine house instead, but the roundhouse looks like it will take up too much space.

The yard tracks moved to the other side of the mainline. This makes for longer tracks in the yard and easier access to the waterfront area at the bottom left. The yard lead is also now on the outside of the mainline. And I had to lose the switchback that was against the yard side of the backdrop. No room for that.

Made a longer passing siding that goes past the sawmill area. 

A new plan for staging. In the other image is the staging under the layout that includes a reverse loop and a few staging tracks. Each is almost or more than 7 feet long. I can get them to 5 inches below the layout mostly using grades less than 2%. The steepest grade is 2.1% to get the line going to the staging under the mainline inside the tunnels at upper right (with the mainline also going up at 1.5%) and at least 2 inches of clearance. The rest of the grade down to staging is about 1.5% or less. I am keeping the line to the staging tracks against the walls so it is not in the way under the valleys and streams and such that I want to do in the foreground against the fascia. 
















What do you think?


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