# American Flyer Royal Blue



## Wicked_Silence

Is that what this is? A Lionel?










Any idea what this would be worth? I'm debating about selling it or tossing it up on the pay it forward thread. No idea if it works or not as it is in the custody of a friend ATM.


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## New Berlin RR

big ed said:


> They would have been too big for your HO trains.


im looking for at least one "O" scale to keep (standard "O" gauge) and if you put any thing on pay it forward I would like to call the blue engine  LOL!!!


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## tjcruiser

Silence,

I'm pretty sure that's American Flyer, S gauge. Not Lionel O. The loco is the Royal Blue.

That said, we had a detailed discussion of AF's S vs. O Royal Blue locos, here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=4806

Yours is set up for 2-rail track. That's S.

Regards,

TJ


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks TJ. Just trying to figure out if its worth anything or not for my friend. He says that it isn't working, but doesn't know what the problem is.


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## tjcruiser

Oh I'm sure it's worth something. Those Royal Blues are great looking locos, and often sought out by S guys.

"Not working" could mean a lot of possiblilities, many of them fixable.

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS --

Depending on its condition, that engine alone is worth a couple of bucks. The rest of the rolling stock looks to be some very common pieces for AF and they may be worth only a few bucks at best. Nevertheless, you appear to show an original 'set' box there and I am guessing this is a complete set as originally produced. If I do a little research online, I might even be able to trace if it was once offered with those items as a complete set. You could try if you feel compelled -- search for American Flyer catalogs -- there are a few web sites that show the original books published by AC Gilbert for Flyer trains. All of this equipment might get a good buck on eBay or at a local train show depending on its appearance and condition (breaks, cracks, paint marring, etc.) -- I am certainly interested in it as I am looking to get a Royal Blue for my collection. The fact that it is not working could be due to many things -- most of them minor and easily repaired with a little TLC. Please be sure to find a good home for it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS --

I failed to address the Plasticville items....those may be worth something too. If any are complete without breaks or cracks, the parts can be placed into zip baggies and be sold to collectors like myself. Even the separate parts could be worth a couple of bucks for those of us who need to replace a broken or lost piece. So don't discard those items either. Best of luck with the find.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS -- Did some quick research in an online Flyer Gallery and found this page...

http://www.geocities.com/theupstairstrain/Royal_Blue_Freight.html

Take a look at it......


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks for the info guys. Trying to get my friend a nice price that he can live with. I'll have to look up the ads and see what I can find, thanks for the idea Nuttin. I still have yet to get this into my possession but we are hoping on hooking up sometime this weekend. He came to me with it because he knows absolutely nothing about trains and told me that he was going to put it in the local paper for $20. I told himt o hold off unless he was in a big rush to get rid of it. It was his father's originally and he has no time or interest in trains.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Holy S**t!!!!! --- I'll give him double that for all of it!

That's just an example to NOT jump to conclusions by selling things when you are unsure of what they are or their value. It is certainly worth more than that.


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## Wicked_Silence

lol Exactly Nuttin, hence asking him to hold off on selling it and posting here trying to find out what it might be worth, just a ballpark figure. From the pic he sent me (the one I posted), it looks like the rear wheel of the engine is sitting between the engine and tender. Hope that is fixable. Oh, he says he also has the original booklet that came with the set.


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## The New Guy

Wicked_Silence said:


> ...It was his father's originally and he has no time or interest in trains.


Unless your friend is completely broke, encourage him to box it up and slide it under the bed. He may have no time or interest right now. He may one day have children or grandchildren that have both time and interest. That has far more value than the few dollars this will fetch or the crap that would be bought with it.

JMO of course.


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## flyernut

Definitely worth something. It is a American Flyer S gauge. Heck we can have a bidding war right here on the forum,lol..If it was mine, I wouldn't take less than $50 for the whole smash...


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## Wicked_Silence

lol, thanks. I've just gotten back into HO scale after about a 25 year hiatus and still learning about that scale. I have no idea with other scales. But come to think of it, another friends father had a huge setup of 3 rail O(?) scale. I might have to inquire about its whereabouts. The layout used to cover a good 20x16 room.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> lol, thanks. I've just gotten back into HO scale after about a 25 year hiatus and still learning about that scale. I have no idea with other scales. But come to think of it, another friends father had a huge setup of 3 rail O(?) scale. I might have to inquire about its whereabouts. The layout used to cover a good 20x16 room.


Best of luck, my friend.


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## brylerjunction

that is a nice set and a complete set in c-7 condition just sold for $405 but it had all of the boxes and looked brand new...a damaged set sold for $80 recently


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS --

I see what you mean about the rear set of trailing wheels. However, without careful examination, it could be nothing more than a missing screw which is a minor fix. Many repro parts are being produced for the vintage Flyers and they can be easily repaired or restored. I kind of agree with The New Guy, have your friend hang onto it. You never know what the future will bring with family and interests. And it will more than likely grow in value over the time period it is kept if he later decides to sell it. A quick look on eBay will give you some clues to its current value. The more of the set (packaging, booklets, instructions, etc.) that remains together, the more valuable it will become. Again, as I stated, and others here, he could easily sell it on this site without much difficulty. And I think I can guarantee it will have a good home if it is sold here. Best of luck.


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## Reckers

Flyer is right: the locomotive can probably be fixed pretty easily by anyone who runs American Flyer. With that acknowledged, I can offer a suggestion. Send it to someone reputable to look it over and tell you what's wrong with it, or take it to a local hobby shop that handles S scale trains (American Flyer).

As for that "Send it to someone reputable to look it over and tell you what's wrong with it" business, I can suggest several members of the site who would give you and honest answer and actually return it to you. If that interests you, let me know and I'll pm you some names. Let me clarify that: I don't know any member who would not return it to you, but there are some I've dealt with a lot and trust implicitly. People on this site value their reputation---a thief would be effectively run out of town and no one would talk to him or her. My advice is to get the locomotive looked at & repaired, then decide what to do with it. You have a collection of stuff that has one relatively valuable piece to a buyer/reseller, but there is enough there to give an interested child or adult a good start on a new hobby. And yes, that definitely is an American Flyer Royal Blue ( a tip of the hat to TJ!).

Best wishes,


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## tjcruiser

Reckers said:


> And yes, that definitely is an American Flyer Royal Blue ( a tip of the hat to TJ!).


 :thumbsup:


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## Wicked_Silence

Okay, I've got my hands on the set. Pics posted in my albums but here is a teaser:










We have decided that I would give my buddy the $20 that he originally wanted. Now the tough choice is do I fix it up and keep it or not? He is fine with anything I do and we have decided together that if its sold, we are going to split the gains. But I love the looks of this set.  Oh, so far I have noticed a white reside on alot of the plastic items (switch remote, some of the couplers and even on the bottom of the flat car) The flat car is missing a wheel set (not the whole thing, just one of the 2 pairs of one side). The connection between the tender and engine is plugged under the engine and the wires need to be reconnected to the tender. Any idea what screw size I would need to hook the tender back up and push out the broken shank of the old screw?


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## Big Ed

You have a Classic.:thumbsup:
You also have the S guys drooling.

Me too.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Okay, I've got my hands on the set. Pics posted in my albums but here is a teaser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have decided that I would give my buddy the $20 that he originally wanted. Now the tough choice is do I fix it up and keep it or not? He is fine with anything I do and we have decided together that if its sold, we are going to split the gains. But I love the looks of this set.  Oh, so far I have noticed a white reside on alot of the plastic items (switch remote, some of the couplers and even on the bottom of the flat car) The flat car is missing a wheel set (not the whole thing, just one of the 2 pairs of one side). The connection between the tender and engine is plugged under the engine and the wires need to be reconnected to the tender. Any idea what screw size I would need to hook the tender back up and push out the broken shank of the old screw?


If you need/want them, I have the wheel sets for your car.. That white residue, especially on the couplers, is a mold-release agent used in the molds when they first molded them. A little heat, or some WD-40 will take it right off... Not to worry.. That little screw is a special shoulder screw used by Gilbert on many of their engines. It's available through Portlines, and the original Gilbert part # is PA4939. I don't have any of those, just the longer version for the 302's,etc.Let me know if I can help.. The wiring diagram is also available on the forum, and through PortLines.


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## Kwikster

Wicked_Silence said:


> Any idea what screw size I would need to hook the tender back up and push out the broken shank of the old screw?


Am I gathering that the original screw is broken? If so, locate a small (likely smaller than 3/32nds) LEFT handed drill bit. Carefully center punch, maybe a small nail and light hammer here, a dimple in the center. The left hand bit will usually "snag" the screw and back it out. Also, the left hand bit won't drive it in deeper. Work slowly, carefully make sure the bit is centered and properly aligned. There are screw extractors available at most parts stores, so should be fairly easy to fix. Something like this: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Great-Neck-10-pcs-bolt-extractor-set/_/N-25qe?itemIdentifier=231204_0_0_ would be most effective. 

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS --

I see some of the other guys have already helped you. Here is a link to an online American Flyer Manual -- 

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album209?page=14 

This particular page contains 3 service manual pages on the 350 engine that you have there. The first is a "cover" sheet by Flyer with brief description and picture, the next an exploded view/diagram of all the parts and third, a parts list corresponding to the diagram. Using these you should be able to disassemble and reassemble the engine as well as gathering the original AF Part Numbers in order to obtain proper replacement parts. Someone mentioned Portlines Hobby -- the gentleman there, Doug Peck, is an expert in Flyer and can probably get any parts you need as well as offer some assistance. Google search for 'Portlines Hobby' online for his website. His site also offers wiring diagrams, but they are posted here in the forum and on other pages in that AF Service Manual I linked above however they appear on other pages. The most difficult job you mentioned may be the extraction of that stub of a screw from the tail of the loco. So go real slow and real easy. The rest is a piece of cake. Once you are ready a simple servicing of the engine should be in order -- cleaning, lube, etc. -- to be sure all the parts work as they should. When the time comes, I as well as others here can guide you. And if by chance you decide to offer it for sale, I doubt you need to go further than this site to get a fair offer and a good home for it. Do us a favor and keep posting your progress as you move along. It not only keeps us updated but also provides guidance for future users of this site attempting to do the same. Thanks for the posting.


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## Wicked_Silence

flyernut - Thanks for the offer of the wheel. I will keep that in mind and the part # for the screw. 

Kwikster - Yeah the original screw shank is still in the hole, the head appears to have sheared off from the shank. I've got a few different things that I've been told I can try.

Nuttin - Thanks for the link, I've been looking thru the manual here, but an online one will work well, I'm afraid of damaging the original one.

To all - Since I haven't been able to re-attach the tender to the loco, I decided to grab some alligator clip wires and hook the loco directly to the transformer. Well, I turned it on and it hummed loudly but no movement.  I flipped the top switch and the hum went away but still no movement. Looks like I will have to take it apart and see what the engine is doing. The bulb is not there so I couldn't tell if it was getting power, but I figure one thing at a time. I'm going to take it to the only hobby shop in my area as I know he works on engines, I just don't know if he works on ones this old but figured it can't hurt to try. I'm also probably going to have to replace the wiring with new stuff as the existing stuff is getting very old. Plus I'll need to do that anyway to have enough wire to reach the contacts in the tender when the time comes. Now, should I keep the original wiring? Lastly, I tossed the box that I picked it up in as it was very ratty and starting to come apart at the corners. Only problem is, when I came home from grabbing the clips, I saw that the box was the original box that the set came in. Its in really rough shape so I was thinking of just cutting the end off that has the label on it and tossing the rest. This set is set #50A

Edit - I also noticed that according the original paperwork, there was an authorized American Flyer shop in my home town, and only 1 of 5 in Ontario. Question is, is it still open? lol


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I myself am not that big on the original boxes and packaging as I never plan to resell my items. However, there is no doubt that having the original packaging adds to the value of the item. A quick scan of eBay will attest to that. Often a 'set' box as you discarded can be resold for $50 depending on its condition. You said it was "ratty" -- that could mean many things. I was going to tape an original box I recently acquired because of its ratty condition but received a suggestion from the guys here to create a 'sleeve' box to fit around it and protect it. If you can retrieve the original box, it may be to your advantage. But if its on its way to the landfill, there is nothing that you can do.

I am not that familiar with the 350 loco, but if it has the usual reverse unit, it sounds like it is simply sticking, hence the hum. Some work with contact cleaner will free that up to get it working properly. There are copper 'fingers' that make contact with a rotating drum in that unit to cycle the loco forward and reverse. These fingers do wear out or bend so that they may need fixing or replacing too. This is very easy and inexpensive to do -- like $4 total for parts, $3 for contact cleaner. To continue servicing, you may wish to check the brushes and springs -- these are easy to replace and also inexpensive. The rest is simple cleaning of the gears, wheels, etc. with contact spray and elbow grease. Once done, this baby will probably chug around the track with ease.


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## flyernut

When re-wiring, I use 24 gauge super flex wire. It flexes very easily, and won't bind the connection between the loco and tender, which some other wires can. It's on ebay, or you can probably purchase it from your local train shop for something like .50 cents a foot. I usually keep around 20 feet on hand.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I'm guessing this engine has a 4-conductor wire harness from tender to engine?? Some hobby stores, local and online, offer a nearly identical product, cloth-covered, 4-conductor wiring harness sold by the foot. I got myself about 10 feet of the stuff in inventory for that purpose should I ever need to rewire a tender. Perhaps you might find this or you could order a comparable product already cut to the right length through Portlines Hobby. Do you know how to solder wires to various connectors? You will need to learn if you do not.


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## Big Ed

I watched this plain old box on e bay it started at 99 cents.
It is for a Lionel 2341 Jersey Central, box and insert.

It ended up selling for $1005 bucks!

Yes it was empty.











Look at it just a plain Jane box,
Item number was: 380447906771


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Must be because it was 'Made and Printed in the USA' -- can't be because it was for a Lionel.......


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## Big Ed

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Must be because it was 'Made and Printed in the USA' -- can't be because it was for a Lionel.......


You forgot a  at the end.


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## flyernut

big ed said:


> I watched this plain old box on e bay it started at 99 cents.
> It is for a Lionel 2341 Jersey Central, box and insert.
> 
> It ended up selling for $1005 bucks!
> 
> Yes it was empty.
> 
> 
> View attachment 19280
> 
> 
> 
> Look at it just a plain Jane box,
> Item number was: 380447906771


That's what you call having more money than brains....


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## Big Ed

flyernut said:


> That's what you call having more money than brains....



The box is kind of rare, but like you said...it must be nice to have moocho $$$ to blow on an empty box.


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## Wicked_Silence

I've got some experience in soldering so that shouldn't be an issue. I took it to the closest hobby shop and the guy doesn't touch the stuff and refered me to another guy that about an hour and a half away. I guess he is an authorized Lionel repair guy. So the search continues.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> I've got some experience in soldering so that shouldn't be an issue. I took it to the closest hobby shop and the guy doesn't touch the stuff and refered me to another guy that about an hour and a half away. I guess he is an authorized Lionel repair guy. So the search continues.


There's quite a few of us here that will gladly help/fix that engine for you, no charge except for parts, and if I have the parts on hand, no worries. Flyer engines are very easy to repair, and when I first started collecting flyers, I thought to myself I'd better learn how to fix these things cuz I sure the heck can't afford to pay someone to do it,lol!!


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## Wicked_Silence

Well, the motor spins freely and I can turn it just by running my finger across it. The guy at my hobby shop said that it was probably the brushes. I think I'd gladly ship it to someone here if shipping wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'm sure shipping will cost less than driving an hour and a half each way to the repair place.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well, the motor spins freely and I can turn it just by running my finger across it. The guy at my hobby shop said that it was probably the brushes. I think I'd gladly ship it to someone here if shipping wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.


Brushes are cheap, so are the springs, and I think I have several pairs of both.I have never taken apart/serviced a flyer engine with the reverse in the boiler. Perhaps someone here will step up to the plate and help. I can give it a good ole college try if you want. If you want the springs and brushes to try yourself, I can send them. My best advice for you would be to try and fix it yourself.. They are VERY easy to repair, and the parts are out there.The thing is they can nickle and dime you to death,lol. I'll be checking out for the night, and I'll look for another posting by you in the a.m. Have a happy!


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well, the motor spins freely and I can turn it just by running my finger across it. The guy at my hobby shop said that it was probably the brushes. I think I'd gladly ship it to someone here if shipping wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.


If the motor /armature spins freely, as it should, it could be springs, brushes, a broken/missing wire,etc. It could also be in the tender, and/or reverse unit. Time to trouble-shoot!


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## Wicked_Silence

Hmmmm, well lets see what the guy says tomorrow. I won't be able to get it to the guy till next week anyway at the earliest as I just blew my budget on a soldering gun, with solder and flux and some other parts. I'll send you my addy flyernut so you can see what shipping those parts would run. I'd love to do it myself if I can, just really leary about wrecking the engine.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Hmmmm, well lets see what the guy says tomorrow. I won't be able to get it to the guy till next week anyway at the earliest as I just blew my budget on a soldering gun, with solder and flux and some other parts. I'll send you my addy flyernut so you can see what shipping those parts would run. I'd love to do it myself if I can, just really leary about wrecking the engine.


The worst thing you could do to that engine is break/chip the boiler, and then that would have to be on purpose.Have no fears, you can do it!! Just get some 24 gauge super flex wire; your Lionel guy should have it.Just don't remove the loco's wheels from the axles, as then you'll have to re-quarter the wheels, and that will mean a trip to the shop. I'll check on the shipping. Should be next to nothing.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Hmmmm, well lets see what the guy says tomorrow. I won't be able to get it to the guy till next week anyway at the earliest as I just blew my budget on a soldering gun, with solder and flux and some other parts. I'll send you my addy flyernut so you can see what shipping those parts would run. I'd love to do it myself if I can, just really leary about wrecking the engine.


Well, I checked my supplies and found only 2 used brushes, and no springs. I can probably get them in a day or two. If you'd rather get them on ebay, that's also ok. Let me know...


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS & Flyernut -- I have a new set of brushes and springs for that engine, actually almost every AF steam engine since they are practically all the same parts. I'll galdly send them free, just let me know which of you wants them. And as far as the reverse in the boiler, from the exploded view, it looks exactly like one in the tender. Only that it is mounted with the locking lever upward through the boiler top rather than through the tender bottom. I'm sure servicing is the same. I also have a new set of reverse fingers if you want me to include them in the package. Just let me know.

WS -- We're all here to help you. It would be great if you take a shot at reparing this gal yourself. And as mentioned above, I'll gladly ship the parts to you if you choose. The fact that you bought a soldering gun must mean you are thinking seriously of trying to do something. But let me caution you -- you might not want to use that. It generates much more heat than is necessary to solder these wires. A small 25 watt soldering iron, like a pencil-type, is all you would need. It generates just enough heat to melt the solder without burning the connectors, wire and insulation.


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## Wicked_Silence

Wow, this is more then I had hoped for in the way of support on this. Thanks guys, I really mean it. Let me here back from the local guy first and then I'll let you know what I'm going to do. I don't mind the driving as if he can fix it while I'm there so I can watch what he is doing, that would be great and well worth the gas money.

As for the soldering gun, its one of the pencil types. $18 bucks at Lowes.


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## Kwikster

In truth, I'd be more likely to give it the ole college try first before sending it out. If you're even remotely mechanically inclined, it won't be that difficult. The older stuff was rather simple in the majority of areas, and the guys here are good with the more difficult side of things (read e-unit work). For about and hour or so worth the work you can have it apart cleaned and inspected. 

Carl


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> WS & Flyernut -- I have a new set of brushes and springs for that engine, actually almost every AF steam engine since they are practically all the same parts. I'll galdly send them free, just let me know which of you wants them. And as far as the reverse in the boiler, from the exploded view, it looks exactly like one in the tender. Only that it is mounted with the locking lever upward through the boiler top rather than through the tender bottom. I'm sure servicing is the same. I also have a new set of reverse fingers if you want me to include them in the package. Just let me know.
> 
> WS -- We're all here to help you. It would be great if you take a shot at reparing this gal yourself. And as mentioned above, I'll gladly ship the parts to you if you choose. The fact that you bought a soldering gun must mean you are thinking seriously of trying to do something. But let me caution you -- you might not want to use that. It generates much more heat than is necessary to solder these wires. A small 25 watt soldering iron, like a pencil-type, is all you would need. It generates just enough heat to melt the solder without burning the connectors, wire and insulation.


Thanks for the offer buddy, but I have access to just about any part flyer ever made, NOS, at my disposal. It's a "secret" source,lol. I'm lucky, I have 2 of the best flyer mechanics within 30 miles of me, either East or West...I thought I had more brushes and springs on hand, but that's not the case. I'll have to stock up.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Wow, this is more then I had hoped for in the way of support on this. Thanks guys, I really mean it. Let me here back from the local guy first and then I'll let you know what I'm going to do. I don't mind the driving as if he can fix it while I'm there so I can watch what he is doing, that would be great and well worth the gas money.
> 
> As for the soldering gun, its one of the pencil types. $18 bucks at Lowes.


Like the man said, we're here to help you.You have one of the easier locos to fix.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well, it looks like I won't be dealing with this locally. I'm not looking forward to 3+ hours on the road for 2 seperate trips. So might I ask the forum who they might recommend? Since I have dealt very few of you, I'd like some input here. Also, the gent I spoke to at length about the engine says that it sounds like the E-Unit is not functioning if that helps you at all.

Really want to get this up and running for my son is really excited about this train, even more so then any of the HO stuff (well with the exception of his first, you can never get that feeling again).  willing to pay for parts and shipping there and back, so lets get this done.


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## Big Ed

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well, it looks like I won't be dealing with this locally. I'm not looking forward to 3+ hours on the road for 2 seperate trips. So might I ask the forum who they might recommend? Since I have dealt very few of you, I'd like some input here. Also, the gent I spoke to at length about the engine says that it sounds like the E-Unit is not functioning if that helps you at all.
> 
> Really want to get this up and running for my son is really excited about this train, even more so then any of the HO stuff (well with the exception of his first, you can never get that feeling again).  willing to pay for parts and shipping there and back, so lets get this done.


Like mentioned you should take a stab at fixing it yourself.
If you become stuck help is here.

Take good pictures too. 

I have not fooled with fixing Flyers but they can't be any harder then working on a Lionel or Marx.

It may seem intimidating at first but you will be glad you did it yourself.
And somewhere in the future it will need normal servicing anyway.
And you will save a lot instead of paying someone to do it, then you can buy more trains instead.

The guys answering you here are not going to rip you off, your an S brother now, they just want to save the Royal Blue for you. (rhymes) 

Heck free repair just pay for parts and shipping you can't get a better deal then that.
But you really should try to fix it yourself.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS -- It sounds as though Flyernut has had more experience than I have. Although I am confident I could get it up and running, he seems to have done so more often than I have. If I were you though, I'd take a crack at it myself first. However, if you still have that fear of starting, send it to him. I'm sure you can trust him to carefully handle it and return it. "Reckers" is another Flyer guy here who surprisingly hasn't jumped in on this discussion lately. He may be watching from afar waiting to pounce at just the right time. I know that he also has performed extensive work on these steam locos and can be well trusted. But deep down, I wish you would take a look at it. Sit down at a desk with a few small hand tools and a cold drink, then follow the exploded view and remove some of the screws, taking great care to keep everything you remove safe in a muffin tin or other cup-type holder so as to not lose anything. To help yourself, take digital photos (cell phone) of your progress and make written notations as well as sketches to help you remember how to reassemble it. I'm sure you'll find it is much easier than you think. Like one other person stated, do not remove the drive wheels -- and to do the work we are suggesting, you do not have to remove them. You would need a special tool to remove them anyway, so don't let that thought scare you at all. You would only need to remove any of the drive wheel linkage that attaches to the boiler body. I found an earlier thread someone posted when they disassembled and cleaned a Flyer 322 steam loco -- although this one and yours are not identical, there are some similarities -- check it out here first......

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8117&highlight=322


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## markjs

I'm really impressed with all the offers to help Newbie WS with repairs, info, etc. Maybe somebody can help me (who also knows nothing about repairs).

I need to replace some link couplers. How do I get the pin locked in place on the truck??? Do I need any special tools? (I've seen repair kits offered on Ebay.)

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark


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## Wicked_Silence

Okay, fine. You all talked me into trying to figure this thing out, okay so now what parts do I or will I most likely need. Someone mentioned the E-Unit, but that is about it.


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## markjs

I've had so much trouble with AF reversing units that I had most of them replaced with Dallee Electronic Reversing Units. About $40 at S-n-S Trains in Boise, Idaho. So far they seem to be extremely dependable.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

markjs - there is a special tool required for installing the link coupler pins. it is relatively inexpensive, maybe $12 depending where you go and whether it's gold-plated or a simple steel one like the rest of us have (LOL). i thought i had a copy of the instruction sheet on my computer to include here but cannot find it. hopefully one of the other guys will forward or post one for you. anyway, you need to slide the pin into the truck, place the head on a solid surface, such as a bench vise, or heavy steel block, then you slip the special tool over the shank of the pin until it is against the pin body. then you rap away with a light hammer to "seat" the pin. it creates a slight deformity at the body to hold it in place on the truck. the tool's tip is designed to give the right shape to the body once it is rapped with a hammer. i hope i explained it completely -- sorry i have no pictures to help guide you. but someone else is sure to add to this and probably will include one. then i'll be able to get my copy when he does.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Okay, fine. You all talked me into trying to figure this thing out, okay so now what parts do I or will I most likely need. Someone mentioned the E-Unit, but that is about it.


YAY!! You'll be amazed at how much you learn/know about this little engine once you take it apart and service it!! To rebuild the reverse unit, you'll need top and lower fingers, and that's about it. These are available on ebay and through the guys here. The drums are a little harder to get, but seldom go bad. Most of the time, the reverse unit gives one fits, as the motor itself is very reliable. AS you start to pull the engine apart, take pictures and/or notes.To start the process you will need a screwdriver and a set of ignition wrenches for the small nuts on the drive wheels. Also get yourself a dremel tool.When you want to start on your project, drop me a PM, and I'll give you my home phone # and walk you through it...Loren


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> markjs - there is a special tool required for installing the link coupler pins. it is relatively inexpensive, maybe $12 depending where you go and whether it's gold-plated or a simple steel one like the rest of us have (LOL). i thought i had a copy of the instruction sheet on my computer to include here but cannot find it. hopefully one of the other guys will forward or post one for you. anyway, you need to slide the pin into the truck, place the head on a solid surface, such as a bench vise, or heavy steel block, then you slip the special tool over the shank of the pin until it is against the pin body. then you rap away with a light hammer to "seat" the pin. it creates a slight deformity at the body to hold it in place on the truck. the tool's tip is designed to give the right shape to the body once it is rapped with a hammer. i hope i explained it completely -- sorry i have no pictures to help guide you. but someone else is sure to add to this and probably will include one. then i'll be able to get my copy when he does.


Yep, I have one too,lol... Not the gold-plated one either...Just remember there's 3 different types of flyer link couplers; thin shank, brass weight, and black weight. They all go on specific years, thin shank being the earliest. ( if I'm wrong, please correct me). It takes a little practice as I broke more than I fixed at first.


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## flyernut

markjs said:


> I've had so much trouble with AF reversing units that I had most of them replaced with Dallee Electronic Reversing Units. About $40 at S-n-S Trains in Boise, Idaho. So far they seem to be extremely dependable.


smart!!


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## flyernut

markjs said:


> I'm really impressed with all the offers to help Newbie WS with repairs, info, etc. Maybe somebody can help me (who also knows nothing about repairs).
> 
> I need to replace some link couplers. How do I get the pin locked in place on the truck??? Do I need any special tools? (I've seen repair kits offered on Ebay.)
> 
> Any info will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark


I bought mine on ebay, plus extra couplers, as you will need them. I broke quite a few before I got one right,lol.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> WS -- It sounds as though Flyernut has had more experience than I have. Although I am confident I could get it up and running, he seems to have done so more often than I have. If I were you though, I'd take a crack at it myself first. However, if you still have that fear of starting, send it to him. I'm sure you can trust him to carefully handle it and return it. "Reckers" is another Flyer guy here who surprisingly hasn't jumped in on this discussion lately. He may be watching from afar waiting to pounce at just the right time. I know that he also has performed extensive work on these steam locos and can be well trusted. But deep down, I wish you would take a look at it. Sit down at a desk with a few small hand tools and a cold drink, then follow the exploded view and remove some of the screws, taking great care to keep everything you remove safe in a muffin tin or other cup-type holder so as to not lose anything. To help yourself, take digital photos (cell phone) of your progress and make written notations as well as sketches to help you remember how to reassemble it. I'm sure you'll find it is much easier than you think. Like one other person stated, do not remove the drive wheels -- and to do the work we are suggesting, you do not have to remove them. You would need a special tool to remove them anyway, so don't let that thought scare you at all. You would only need to remove any of the drive wheel linkage that attaches to the boiler body. I found an earlier thread someone posted when they disassembled and cleaned a Flyer 322 steam loco -- although this one and yours are not identical, there are some similarities -- check it out here first......
> 
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8117&highlight=322


Thank you for the kind words. I was going to mention YOU in fact,lol...The only dealings I've had with members here are gunrunnerjohn, and erkenbrand(?). I sold John track, and erkanbrand has been to my house. Also " Ontario Midlands" and myself have gotten together for a train show. I have many 301's, 302's, 303's, 307's, 312's, 322's, 355's,283's, 290, 293,360's, and a beautiful K355. The 335 was the only engine I ever had worked on because one of the drive wheels had to be removed, and I do not have the tools needed for re-quartering. All of these engines have been broken down to their smallest parts for repair/restoration/cleaning. Not to brag, mind you, just to share with hopes of gaining more knowledge. One can not stop learning.I'll give you all the help needed, and if it comes down to it, ship it to me and I'll take a look at it. If I have the parts on hand, I'll do it for free, depending on your approval. If I don't have the parts, if they cost little to nothing, again, free. I'll buy them as I need replacements anyway. BUT...try it yourself FIRST!! You'll be amazed at little there is to it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Maybe Flyernut can confirm, but I believe through the four different types of link couplers AF offered, they all used the same pin to hold them. Again, I am assuming that to be true. Maybe someone can verify that. But as Flyernut states, you might break a few before gaining the correct "pizzazz" to seat them. Believe it or not, I have yet to try my first. So I have been speaking from pure research and not experience. I hope I haven't misled you. I also invested in a riveter's tool set which includes various rivet tools and tips for all the different types of rivets used by American Flyer for not only the link couplers, but also the trucks on the rolling stock chassis. That is an expensive tool set and not something you want to invest in for merely changing couplers.

Can somebody find the AF link coupler installation sheet instructions and post a copy here?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS -- You'll will likely want to change the motor brushes and springs that hold them. As mentioned from Flyernut, you'll probably need to change the reversing unit fingers as well. Both sets of parts are very inexpensive to purchase. I will gather the correct part numbers from the AF service manual and PM (private message) you with the info and a link to the correct service manual pages online as well as some helpful hints and advice. That should get you well on your way. But if I remember in previous postings, you have a broken screw remaining in the tail of the engine that fastened the link to the tender. I would suggest ordering the part numbers I send from your LHS (local hobby store/shop), then while they are in transit, start working on getting that broken screw stud removed. Also, get yourself some good contact cleaner in a spray can. I've been reminded that Radio Shack has a decent product for a few bucks and it supposedly doesn't harm plastic. You will be using this spray vigorosly so be prepared. Have some Q-tips or other cotton swabs on hand as well as paper towels and toothpicks or some other small sharp "pick" type tools to dig out all the old grease, oil and dirt gunking up this girl. A small Dremel tool works well to polish the metal surfaces of the wheels and copper contacts. But a couple of sheets of 2000 grit sandpaper and elbow grease works just as well. Be sure you have a comfortable, well-lighted work area where you can safely store the loose parts you remove. You also want to keep notes and photos of your progress so that if the need should arise, you may stop at any point without losing your place. Some guys work with an engine cradle to hold the item securely in an upside-down position. This can be a big help while working on this unit. One can be made by assembling some scrap plywood together in a U-shape cross-section with a length to accommodate any engine you might decide to service -- say 20" long. Use good wood screws to assemble it and be sure to add padding throughout the inside surfaces so we don't scratch the finish of these fine pieces. I'll PM the other info as this posting is getting way too long. Anything to add Flyernut??


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> WS -- You'll will likely want to change the motor brushes and springs that hold them. As mentioned from Flyernut, you'll probably need to change the reversing unit fingers as well. Both sets of parts are very inexpensive to purchase. I will gather the correct part numbers from the AF service manual and PM (private message) you with the info and a link to the correct service manual pages online as well as some helpful hints and advice. That should get you well on your way. But if I remember in previous postings, you have a broken screw remaining in the tail of the engine that fastened the link to the tender. I would suggest ordering the part numbers I send from your LHS (local hobby store/shop), then while they are in transit, start working on getting that broken screw stud removed. Also, get yourself some good contact cleaner in a spray can. I've been reminded that Radio Shack has a decent product for a few bucks and it supposedly doesn't harm plastic. You will be using this spray vigorosly so be prepared. Have some Q-tips or other cotton swabs on hand as well as paper towels and toothpicks or some other small sharp "pick" type tools to dig out all the old grease, oil and dirt gunking up this girl. A small Dremel tool works well to polish the metal surfaces of the wheels and copper contacts. But a couple of sheets of 2000 grit sandpaper and elbow grease works just as well. Be sure you have a comfortable, well-lighted work area where you can safely store the loose parts you remove. You also want to keep notes and photos of your progress so that if the need should arise, you may stop at any point without losing your place. Some guys work with an engine cradle to hold the item securely in an upside-down position. This can be a big help while working on this unit. One can be made by assembling some scrap plywood together in a U-shape cross-section with a length to accommodate any engine you might decide to service -- say 20" long. Use good wood screws to assemble it and be sure to add padding throughout the inside surfaces so we don't scratch the finish of these fine pieces. I'll PM the other info as this posting is getting way too long. Anything to add Flyernut??


As for the engine cradle, I simply use a piece of foam padding, about 3 inches thick. Can't beat it. Cut out an area to keep the engine secure and from rotating.You can get both fingers, brushes, and springs for less than $12 bucks, shipped. There's plenty on ebay, as well as PortLines Hobby.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS & Flyernut --

For some reason I cannot PM WS....I tried searching for him in the member list but it states the list is disabled by the administrator. What's up with that?


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## tjcruiser

I checked his settings in the Admin control panel. He IS toggled to be able to receive PM's.

I send him a PM directly on my end as a check ... we'll see what happens.

TJ


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## Kwikster

flyernut said:


> AS you start to pull the engine apart, take pictures and/or notes.To start the process you will need a screwdriver and a set of ignition wrenches for the small nuts on the drive wheels. Also get yourself a dremel tool.When you want to start on your project, drop me a PM, and I'll give you my home phone # and walk you through it...Loren


Instead of ignition wrenches, I'd recommend a set of nutdrivers very reasonable to get and infinitely more useful. Vouch the Dremel exceedingly useful to have around, but not essential to have. I would advise getting some green scotch-brite pads, which are kitchen scrubby pads. Don't use steelwool as it will cause more issues as the fibers are conductive and magnetic. Get several cans of compressed air, unless you have an air compressor, for blowing off debris. A few cans of brake cleaner is also a wise choice, it evaporates without leaving residue behind. On my Lionel, I cleaned the e-unit drum using scotch-brite attached to a thin wooden stick (left-over after eating a corn dog  ) and gently buffed the drum, rotating it to get all surfaces. I didn't even have to replace the fingers.

Carl


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## flyernut

I made my cradle just for engines, but if you extend it,(a loger piece) it will cover both engine and tender. Engines shown are one of my 302's and a 312.


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## flyernut

Kwikster said:


> Instead of ignition wrenches, I'd recommend a set of nutdrivers very reasonable to get and infinitely more useful. Vouch the Dremel exceedingly useful to have around, but not essential to have. I would advise getting some green scotch-brite pads, which are kitchen scrubby pads. Don't use steelwool as it will cause more issues as the fibers are conductive and magnetic. Get several cans of compressed air, unless you have an air compressor, for blowing off debris. A few cans of brake cleaner is also a wise choice, it evaporates without leaving residue behind. On my Lionel, I cleaned the e-unit drum using scotch-brite attached to a thin wooden stick (left-over after eating a corn dog  ) and gently buffed the drum, rotating it to get all surfaces. I didn't even have to replace the fingers.
> 
> Carl


You're quite right about the nut-drivers..I never thought of them,lol...I just returned from my supply store, and bought 3 pairs of new brushes, 6 new springs, 2 top fingers, and 5 foot of 24 gauge super flex wire. Total was $12 bucks. You can get the green pads at Sam's or BJ's. Cheap and you get a lot! Just tell the wife the extra pads are a present to help her with the dishes.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

That's a real clean looking #312 you got there Nut.....love that one.

I'll try to PM Silence again, see if it works.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Ahaaaa.....it's Wicked (underscore) Silence...no wonder I couldn't find it. These old eyes of mine aren't what they used to be.

WS -- Expect a PM shortly.


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## Wicked_Silence

Hey, Nuttin. Just so that doesn't happen again. All you need to do is left click on my nick in my forum post.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

That's certainly easy. What will they think of next?

I hope I'm better at fixin' Flyers than working computers.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> That's a real clean looking #312 you got there Nut.....love that one.
> 
> I'll try to PM Silence again, see if it works.


Thanks.. That one came from ebay, and it looked like it sat at the bottom of a salt water well for the last 50 years. Everything was frozen up on it, and it took a little doing to get things unfrozen. The paint, however, was darn good, which surprised me.All the steel parts had rust, and the bottom of the tender was very bad. I sand-blasted the tender chassis and painted it. Fixed all the linkages, which some were bent, frozen,etc. New wick, new brushes, new springs, new headlamp, new fingers, refaced the armature, and a general clean-up.I have another 312, a 312AC to be precise, that's a real looker. In fact, I posted a thread on the teardown and rebuild.I have 2 sets of passenger cars for it, a "standard" set with REA baggage car and 2 passenger cars, and a "deluxe" set, with a 718 operating mail bag car and 2 passenger cars... I paid $29.95 for the nasty 312, but it was complete, $60.00 for the nicer one.. 2 of my better scores.


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## Big Ed

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> WS & Flyernut --
> 
> For some reason I cannot PM WS....I tried searching for him in the member list but it states the list is disabled by the administrator. What's up with that?



The members list has been disabled almost since the beginning of the site.

They told me when I asked years ago that they had a problem and that was the easiest way to fix it.

So a member here can't search the members list like you can do in a lot of other sites.


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## gunrunnerjohn

We recently change the PM feature, but it was only supposed to affect new users. I'll check and see why it's affecting all users.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> We recently change the PM feature, but it was only supposed to affect new users. I'll check and see why it's affecting all users.


Unless you recently changed it like yesterday, mine works fine?

What did you change?
Why did they change?

He was asking about the members list, that has been disabled since I have been here.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, he said he couldn't PM WS, so I figured maybe that change (yesterday BTW), may have been part of the reason.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, he said he couldn't PM WS, so I figured maybe that change (yesterday BTW), may have been part of the reason.



He did not realize he could click on the name in the post and PM him, he was trying to look in the members list. 
Which is disabled that is what he asked, "what is up with that."
That is why I answered about the members list.

It don't mater now he knows how to get him a PM now.


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> It don't mater now he knows how to get him a PM now.


I hope it also doesn't *matter* either.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Still workin on your instructions and ref material. But found this on eBay -- looks older than yours but I am no expert on this item. However, this should give you an idea what yours might be worth, even in the current condition. Have no fear though, we will git that baby running strong when we finish. Check the link to eBay here..........

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...604893?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ebf65a39d


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here is the AF Gallery online which is a great source for viewing the items produced by AC Gilbert -- this particular page shows the Pacific Steam Locos like your Royal Blue. If go to the bottom of the page, you can surf through the various pages and see other engines, rolling stock and accessories. Check the link here for your Royal Blue....

http://www.geocities.com/theupstairstrain/engines-Pacific3.html


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS -- I sent a PM to you as well as the servicing instructions to the email address you provided. Hope you get this girl working again. Contact me or the guys here if you run into problems.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here's another Royal Blue on eBay. This one must be a later version. It looks athough the tender/trailing link is fastened to the blue frame just at the rear of the engine cab. Yours looked as if it connects at the rear of the motor assembly. Apparently Gilbert made some changes in design while this was in production. Here's the eBay link....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...886074?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item257253d2fa


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## The New Guy

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Here's another Royal Blue on eBay. This one must be a later version. It looks athough the tender/trailing link is fastened to the blue frame just at the rear of the engine cab. Yours looked as if it connects at the rear of the motor assembly. Apparently Gilbert made some changes in design while this was in production. Here's the eBay link....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...886074?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item257253d2fa


It's amazing what:
1. some people will do with a rattle can
2. some people will adulterate to make a buck
3. some people will pay when other people do 1 and 2


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks Nuttin for the info, I've only managed to take a quick peak at it, but I'm sure that it will come in aquite handy. I'm starting to look at ways of getting that screw shank outta the hole. Was just wondering if anyone knows if the hole is a blind hole or if it comes out the other side of the casting? I tried taking a look but the where the hole should come out is right under the windings.


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## Kwikster

It will also depend on HOW it broke. If just the threads remain it'll be tougher, hence the suggestion for the extractor kit. If there's a "stump' left, you may get luck with a pair of needle nose pliers. I've had much success drilling and extracting broke screws. Sometimes you can get VERY lucky and using something like a dental pick, you might be able to back it out if not bound up or loctited. Many ways to work it. I had a broken screw in one of my drive wheels and was able to back it out that way, after drilling it out. Didn't have a small enough extractor on hand then, but I do now. 

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS -- Looking at your previous photos, it appears that screw is threaded into the rear of the motor assembly on your engine. If so, try taking the motor out from the shell per my instructions. Perhaps then you will be able to see if that is a blind or a through screw hole. Keep us posted here. It might be easier to work on it as well once it is out.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> WS -- Looking at your previous photos, it appears that screw is threaded into the rear of the motor assembly on your engine. If so, try taking the motor out from the shell per my instructions. Perhaps then you will be able to see if that is a blind or a through screw hole. Keep us posted here. It might be easier to work on it as well once it is out.


I checked one of my 307's and the screw used for a 307 and the 350 is the same. I'm thinking the hole should be the same, and if it is, it's a through-hole. You should be able to get it out easy enough.


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## Wicked_Silence

Okay, well if I can manage to keep some energy after my son goes down for the night, I'm going to start pulling this thing apart. I hope its that easy Flyernut.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I'll be online for a while this evening. If you get in a jam, post something or email me at home. I'll check this site and my email periodically.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Okay, well if I can manage to keep some energy after my son goes down for the night, I'm going to start pulling this thing apart. I hope its that easy Flyernut.


I remember little kids very well,lol... It is easy my friend..I always separate the tender from the engine first.
I then remove all linkage.
Front set of wheels next.
Rear panel screws.
2 front chassis screws.
You'll have to pull forward to disengage the small locking tabs in the chassis.
That should be it for initial dis assembly.
DO NOT REMOVE DRIVE WHEELS OR WHITE SPACERS!
When you get to the motor, be careful you do not lose the small copper washer on the armature shaft, and remember on which end it goes. To reface the armature, use a drill press, or a hand drill.Chuck up the armature into the drill, and place a piece of sandpaper/emery cloth on the face of the armature and spin the armature with the drill, keeping it flat against the armature face.If using sandpaper, use a fine grit like 1000 or finer.I use 2000 for a final polish.I use Vaseline for gear grease inside the grease pan. You'll see that on the bottom of the chassis, held on by one screw. Oil the wheel axles, slide in your new brushes and springs, and that much should be done. I'm probably missing sometime so if another member would like to chime in, please do.I have some personal issues tonight so I can't stay long or continue.(My 90 yr old mother was sent to the hospital for dizziness so I'll have to end for tonight.). Good luck, it's easy, and really relaxing.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Flyernut -- I pretty much covered all that with my instructions that I sent to him via email. Nothing pressing here. You should go be with your Mom. I know how that can be. Just lost mine a couple months ago -- she was 91y.o. Take care.


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## tjcruiser

flyernut said:


> .I have some personal issues tonight so I can't stay long or continue.(My 90 yr old mother was sent to the hospital for dizziness so I'll have to end for tonight.).


'Nut,

Best wishes to your nonagenarian Mom.

TJ


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## flyernut

Thank you all for the best wishes.. Mom was just in the hospital 2 weeks ago for the same thing and there was nothing wrong. They tested her for 4 days and found nata. Same episode last night, and I'll be checking with my sister this morning to get the results of last night. I myself usually blast a couple of vicodines down at bedtime because of pain, but I wanted to stay a bit lucid in case I was needed. As far as the Royal Blue, I just wanted to help out a little, while killing some time waiting for a phone call. I know WS is in good hands with the great folks here.. Bless you all...Loren


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## flyernut

Everything is ok here regarding my mom.Low blood sugar and maybe a reaction to the strong antibiotic she was given.. Now back to the "blue".


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## tjcruiser

Glad to hear the positive news.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Good news Flyernut. Glad it was something simple and easily diagnosed and remedied.

I haven't heard anything from Silence since he supposedly started last night. Although he did say he might not have the energy after putting his son to bed. I can relate now having a grandson roaming around into everything. They tend to tire you out and also force you to go for a few more cold ones than you usually do.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well I got the engine out of the shell and powered it up to see what it was doing. It seems like the reverse switch is the cause of the problems. I cleaned the springs and fingers as the ingers were black. Also cleaned the windings and the contact point for the fingers. There is some sparking there when I energize the motor. The gear in the direction switch housing moves up one notch when I turn on the power and the little metal piece under the winding moves up and down but thats about it. The drum that the gear is attached to looks to be covered in the same black stuff that the fingers were but I can't really get in there to clean it. Any way to open up the housing as it looks to be press fit together. I also took video with my phone to show what it is doing when I power it up, but I can't seem to open it on my system as I was going to post it to youtube.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Did you remove the fingers from the reverse housing? If not, try doing so. That might get you access to use some contact cleaner on the drum unit. To remove them, simply bend the metal tabs that hold them to a straightened position. The fingers should then just slip off. To return them after cleaning just slip them on and slightly bend the tabs into the same position, just enough to hold them. Make sure you keep track which finger goes where as they are different from each other.


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## Wicked_Silence

Oh those are the fingers? Completely term illiterate here. lol

Okay no I haven't cleaned those yet, what are the little pieces that fit into the holes with the springs? The holes that have the fasteners clipped to the other end? Those where what I called fingers. They press against the top of the spinning part that turns the wheels.


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## Wicked_Silence

I think I got the problem solved for the video and hopefully should have 1 or 2 up shortly.


----------



## Wicked_Silence

http://youtu.be/60s_RhkArFo


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## Wicked_Silence

http://youtu.be/NHhlriEbMwo


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## Wicked_Silence

Hopefully those will help. Time to run for now, my son has a friend coming over shortly so will be tied up for awhile.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Silence --

The items you mentioned in the tubes are the motor brushes. They are held in place with compressed springs in those tubes -- the clip on the outside keeps them there. Remove one and the spring will likely fire across the room never to be seen again. So be careful if you remove them. I watched both videos. It looks like the reverse plate is rotating up and down as you apply power as it should and I thought at least once I saw the drum rotate as well (the plate ratchets the drum as power is applied). If anything, I would remove the fingers on the reverse unit in order to get better access to the drum. Clean the drum real well with both contact cleaner and a scrubby pad (Scotchbrite green pad) or even that 2000 grit sandpaper so that the copper surfaces shine brightly. Check the fingers to see if they also need cleaning, however for as cheap as they are, I would just replace them. To remove them, simply use a small pliers to straighten the metal tabs that hold them in place and lift each off. To replace, simply place the fingers in place and give the metal tabs a slight bend back in the same direction -- remember, just a slight bend so the fingers stay in place. Any more will break the tabs. Also be sure to replace the fingers the way they came off -- both sets are not identical and each must go back where they came off. Once the reverse unit is working better, my guess is that the motor is gunked up with old grease, oil and dirt and is simply preventing it from turning. The one video looked like the armature tried to turn, so it may simply be too dirty to run. Also the 6 drive wheels should be kept off the table when you try to run her. I'll check in later -- got some ribs and corn going then off to fireworks show. Have a bang of a Fourth !!!


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## T-Man

You didn't expect it to run did you?

After seeing the video both wires on the cans do nothing. you bypassed the field coil. Just clip it to the axles and use the reverse unit. It loks clean enough.

I just joined in so if I make no sense just ignore my post.

I did see dirt. I would clip to the two wires that go to the tender. The reverse unit looks ok and works. 

Keep it up!


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## Wicked_Silence

Well I checked the drop across each set of fingers and no matter what position the drum is in, the connectivity is always from upper finger A to lower finger B and from upper finger B to lower finger A. 

I didn't expect it to run, but was kinda hoping that it might. I am still not going to complain for what I paid for the set.  Heck right after I posted it up in the BST forum to try and figure out what it was worth, I had a few members private message me with offers. So even in non-working condition its worth alot more. Nows if I ever decide to sell it, I'll know what to ask for it and if I can get it working, so much the better. 

I did see something interesting yesterday while I was running around with my son, the hobby shop in Dundas had a G Scale B&O passenger train running around on a track suspended from the ceiling by plastic holders. I think that if I can get this running, it is going to end up hanging from my son's bedroom ceiling.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I didn't notice where he had the wires at first. T-Man is right, you need to connect the leads elsewhere to get power to the motor. However, you mentioned that the wire from the tender to the engine was damaged or gone. Therefore you will need to connect to the jack panel mounted just under the rear cab roof at the back of the engine cab. Hopefully someone here will chime in to confirm or correct me. But I think you have only two wires from the tender to the jack panel as the reverse unit is in the boiler , therefore I think it's safe to assume all you need do is connect one lead to each of the jack panel terminals. Try using a pin or small nail secured in each jack panel pin hole and connect your leads to those, then try applying power.


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## T-Man

It's a very nice set and a good deal for you.
Here is a parts list for it.


here is an electrical diagram from train web.

I think yours ins on the right.

A bunch of diagrams.


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks for the help Nuttin. I'll give that a shot. I also compared my wiring to the diagram on trainweb and it is messed up, at least I think so. I'll hav eto take a closer look as there is some newer plastic coated wires inside the loco, which tells me that someone has had it apart and back together again after replacing some wires.


I might just say screw it and rewire it myself according to that diagram. I may not know too much about electricity, but I can follow that one.

Almost forgot, thanks for your help as well T-Man, any help is appreciated.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I looked at the wiring diagram that T-Man posted above and he is correct, the one on the right side would be the one for your engine. Try reviewng the wiring on your engine and if it needs rewiring, by all means do so. We want this girl to be in the best of shape when we finish. I'll be back online again tomorrow to check for any postings you may send and keep you informed as best I can. Until then have a good nite and we'll touch base later on.

BTW -- I am off work the rest of this week so any emails should be sent to the home email address I gave you.


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## flyernut

Looking good. Take off the fingers using the described method, but I would remove the reverse unit from the chassis first. Once the fingers are off using the described method, spread apart the unit and remove the drum. This will not hurt the unit as long as you don't go hog-wild, just enough to remove the drum. They were made to be replaced but very rarely go bad. Then use your scotch-brite pad and get it all nice any shiny.Clean everything up inside the unit, and oil very SPARINGLY!! These units, if over oiled, with pick up dirt from the track, and then they stick, causing problems. Run them as dry as possible. Make sure your fingers are in contact with the drum as all times. I once had a engine I could not get to run in reverse. Everything looked good, but one of the fingers was not touching the drum,(old eyes),lol. I powered it up and using a toothpick, pushed the finger unto the drum and away she went. DO NOT TOUCH WITH BARE HANDS, YOU WILL GET ZAPPED! I would also use the tender for my electrical source. I never had any luck using the brush tubes.. It your second video, I see the armature trying to turn. I would remove the linkage first, eliminating the linkage as a source of binding, preventing the wheels from turning. Turn the armature by hand to check, but I would remove the linkage anyways..I think you'll find your problem in the motor itself, dirty, needing new brushes and springs, and a re-faced armature.Light oil here too.


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## Wicked_Silence

ITS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well sort of...... lol

I took the fingers off and gave them a quick polish with a dremel as I have no contact cleaner in the house yet. Also gave the drum a good polishing as well. Tossed it back together and this is what I got..................

http://youtu.be/YtcwsuBEzBk

I am still uploading the video as we speak so please be patient as it is telling me 10 minutes left.


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## flyernut

Well, I can't wait for the video....YOU DA MAN!!!... TOLD YOU SO, TOLD YOU SO... YOU COULD DO IT!!!! Welcome to the world of American Flyer repairs!!! It only gets better!! Not viewing the video yet, now take that thing apart, again, and REALLY give it a good going over. You might have missed something, and now that you have YEARS of experience on repairing antique toys, it should be easy,lol...Now get yourself a few 302's with smoke and choo choo, rip them apart, and you'll be an expert in no time.The key is get yourself a good flyer manual, take it slow and easy, easy on the oil, and NEVER use steel wool on anything. I'm busting waiting for that darn video!!! Again, great job. It was a confidence builder, wasn't it?


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## Wicked_Silence

Well its still being worked on as it just got some movement, but not too much. I'm going to try and grab some contact cleaner while I'm out with my son this afternoon. Its a long way from speeding around the track like Nuttin is waiting for, but is better then it was a few days ago. 

BTW, the video is done.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> ITS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well sort of...... lol
> 
> I took the fingers off and gave them a quick polish with a dremel as I have no contact cleaner in the house yet. Also gave the drum a good polishing as well. Tossed it back together and this is what I got..................
> 
> http://youtu.be/YtcwsuBEzBk
> 
> I am still uploading the video as we speak so please be patient as it is telling me 10 minutes left.


That lever you keep messing with is the reverse lock-out lever. Leave that alone as it will be harder to trouble shoot. Push it out of the way so that the bottom plate freely moves up and down. It looks like it wants to be a strong runner. There's still a bit of fiddling to be done in the reverse unit. It seems like that's where the problem is, or in the wiring, maybe a poor solder joint.Any ways, I think you have the problem pretty much confined to your reverse unit/fingers. Make sure the fingers are riding on the drum. They may need to be adjusted, but my feeling is there is a wire or contact making intermittent contact.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Silence -- I watched the video. Looks like Dr. Frankenstein is on the right track, so to speak. First, the lever on the reverse unit is used to lock the drum from rotating. Study its movement to determine which way locks the drum and then push it the OTHER WAY and leave it there. We don't want the drum locked - we want it to rotate. This "cycles" the reverse unit from forward - neutral - reverse - neutral - forward then repeats again, just as I described in the instructions I emailed to you. I noticed that it moved a couple of times on its own power, so we know the motor works. But because you kept changing the reverse lever, I was unable to determine if the motor is sticking, or if the reverse unit was simply stuck in a neutral position when you were locking the drum. Therefore, please push the lever to the unlocked position and always leave it there. Second, I would still tear down the motor as I described in the instructions. No harm in cleaning and lubing it while it is torn down. Change the brushes as well as shining (refacing) the armature copper disc. I can already tell this baby will run well when finished. Oh....and BTW, please hold her up off the table when you apply power. She almost did a nose-dive to the floor....we don't want that either. Keep going you are doing fine.


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## gunrunnerjohn

FWIW, the "unlocked" position is where the lever is contacting the fixed rivet, not where it's just on the bakelite insulation.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well I have isolated one of the problems being the upper finger in the middle (the one that makes contact with the inner drum ring) as it isn't touching very much at all. I apply power and pop that down with a toothpick and she is off and running, I can't remember which direction that is, but I'm going to assume that the lower fingers are for the other direction. Got my hands full getting my son off to T-ball, but will experiment some more when I get home later tonight if I still have the engergy, or tomorrow before work. I picked up some cab wire (braided and coated individual strands inside another outer coating). I'm going to be stripping the outer coating off it and by doing so, I'll have a meter of black and a meter of red braided wire on hand to use. I figure that should do well for connecting the tender to the engine once I get that far. Apprently the EPA has went into Lowe's and a few other places and banned the sale of contact cleaner.  So I'm still on the hunt for that. And that pesty screw is still stuck in the hole to connect the tender. One thing at a time though. 

I'm actually starting to get excited about getting this thing running. Feel like a kid again.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

See -- figured you would. Contact cleaner is available at Radio Shack here in the States, don't know about up there, but it's worth a shot. It may also be sold under another name -- Tuner Cleaner -- which is used for electronics repair. Maybe you can find it named as such?? Surely they have something up there to take its place?? I'm going to a show later on, but will check in on you after I return. Starting to feel excited now aren't you?


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## Wicked_Silence

Well I have definately narrowed down the problem to the center fingers touching the drum both upper and lower. This video (sorry about the quality as its from a cell phone and I've only got 2 hands for a 3 hand job). You will see that I tried switching a few times and it didn't catch until I touched it with a toothpick. I am quite sure that when all is said and done, she'll be quite the strong runner. 

http://youtu.be/rYIWMrbENfA

Keep watching thru the darkness as I had to put the phone down while changing something.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well I have definately narrowed down the problem to the center fingers touching the drum both upper and lower. This video (sorry about the quality as its from a cell phone and I've only got 2 hands for a 3 hand job). You will see that I tried switching a few times and it didn't catch until I touched it with a toothpick. I am quite sure that when all is said and done, she'll be quite the strong runner.
> 
> http://youtu.be/rYIWMrbENfA
> 
> Keep watching thru the darkness as I had to put the phone down while changing something.


Great video, good job. Those fingers can drive you up a wall, if you let them. They look like they're making contact, but sometimes aren't. Fun, isn't it?


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well I have isolated one of the problems being the upper finger in the middle (the one that makes contact with the inner drum ring) as it isn't touching very much at all. I apply power and pop that down with a toothpick and she is off and running, I can't remember which direction that is, but I'm going to assume that the lower fingers are for the other direction. Got my hands full getting my son off to T-ball, but will experiment some more when I get home later tonight if I still have the engergy, or tomorrow before work. I picked up some cab wire (braided and coated individual strands inside another outer coating). I'm going to be stripping the outer coating off it and by doing so, I'll have a meter of black and a meter of red braided wire on hand to use. I figure that should do well for connecting the tender to the engine once I get that far. Apprently the EPA has went into Lowe's and a few other places and banned the sale of contact cleaner.  So I'm still on the hunt for that. And that pesty screw is still stuck in the hole to connect the tender. One thing at a time though.
> 
> I'm actually starting to get excited about getting this thing running. Feel like a kid again.


Just make sure the wire is flexible enough.You don't want it stiff, as it can cause derailments on that light wheel set from the tender to the loco.Also, don't be tempted to buy carb cleaner. IT WILL EAT THE PLASTIC DRUM. It's very caustic, ok for grease on metal but not for plastic! In fact, anything you buy for cleaning should be compatible with plastics. Good luck with the t-ball. Your little guy eye's will light up when he sees that Royal Blue running around.


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## Kwikster

Awesome job Wicked, I knew you could do it!!!!!!!!! To me, the satisfaction of a DIY repair is simply the best feeling. Looking forward to seeing her fly around the track. FWIW, the 1:10 mark here:  was almost a train wreck (pun intended). 

Contact cleaner should be available at a Radio Shack, the old "black n white" tv type is best. Use can use brake cleaner (non-chlorinated) if you can't get contact cleaner. 

Also by copying the part of the YT url between the = signs and using theYT link for attaching you can get the video to show in your post.

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Nice Job Silence. I knew you would be able to handle this. It's a great feeling of accomplishment when you work on something yourself and are rewarded with success. What do you plan next? Have you considered changing the fingers with new ones? Did you get to the motor yet? I know you still have that pesky screw shank to fumble with too. Perhaps you can post a couple of close-up photos of that so we here can offer some suggestions. The best feeling I have right now is the pat-on-the-back to you for having the courage to attempt this yourself.


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks guys, you've all been a great help and there is no way I would have even attempted doing this myself without all your input.  

As for what is next, I'm still going to try and find some contact cleaner and then the next part is getting that dang screw outta the casting. Once that is done, I want to re-attach the tender with the new wires. After that, toss it all back together and start working on the track to see if it needs work.

Oh any ideas what size of bulb I would need to light it?


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## Kwikster

For bulb selection I'd start here:http://www.portlines.com/portlinesclinic22.htm lists them, some by application, but the guys more familiar to Flyers may have other choices. If you haven't already visited here: http://www.portlines.com/afrepairclinics.htm there is a lot of good information to be gleaned from them. 

Carl


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Thanks guys, you've all been a great help and there is no way I would have even attempted doing this myself without all your input.
> 
> As for what is next, I'm still going to try and find some contact cleaner and then the next part is getting that dang screw outta the casting. Once that is done, I want to re-attach the tender with the new wires. After that, toss it all back together and start working on the track to see if it needs work.
> 
> Oh any ideas what size of bulb I would need to light it?


14 volt, screw base.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Silence -- Do you have the old bulb? If so, take it to your local hobby store. The bulbs are usually universal for all toy trains -- Am. Flyer, Lionel, etc. -- have them match it up with the same size, shape, base-type and voltage. The 14 volt mentioned above is correct. The hobby shop should have one on hand. If not, check with the instructions I sent to you via email. I believe among the other items listed, I mentioned about replacing this bulb. Portlines will certainly know which bulb it is and you can have it included if/when you order the replacement parts I listed. If you get the chance, try to post a few photos of that screw so we all can take a stab at providing suggestions. We are as excited as you to see this gal steamin down the rails.


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## Wicked_Silence

l spoke to my friend this morning and told him that I got some life out of the engine and what I had done. He decided that since I'm putting all the work into this, that I can just have it and do with it what I wish. He said that I had already given him the $20 and thats all he wanted for it.  So I am now the proud owner of a 1949 American Flyer Royal Blue Set. :smilie_daumenpos:

To all that have helped so far and will continue to do so, thank you!!!!!!!
:worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy:

Specially Nuttin But Flyer, Flyernut, TJ, kwikster and a few more that I know I've forgotten to mention.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> l spoke to my friend this morning and told him that I got some life out of the engine and what I had done. He decided that since I'm putting all the work into this, that I can just have it and do with it what I wish. He said that I had already given him the $20 and thats all he wanted for it.  So I am now the proud owner of a 1949 American Flyer Royal Blue Set. :smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> To all that have helped so far and will continue to do so, thank you!!!!!!!
> :worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy:
> 
> Specially Nuttin But Flyer, Flyernut, TJ, kwikster and a few more that I know I've forgotten to mention.


You got a sweet deal, plus you have a good friend. And you're more than welcome to the help; that's what we're here for friend.


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## Kwikster

Wicked, it's been a pleasure to help someone who stepped outside their comfort zone and tackled this project. I'm jealous of the deal you got, you have a good friend. Enjoy it, it'll run for a great many more years to come.

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I echo what the other guys have said, you do have a wonderful friend there to have happily passed this treasure onto you. You are going to love this baby for years and years. Then your son will probably love it for years after that. These things can last forever as long as they are handled carefully and get a bit of TLC every one-in-a-while. I am still waiting to watch this girl whiz around the track and your son's eyes wide open like saucers watchin' what Daddy fixed. Best of luck to you and the Royal Blue and welcome to the forum -- it's what we do.


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## Wicked_Silence

Oh, I know I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself here, but what is the best way to clean the tracks? Also, I have a few pieces where the connectors are not there. There is something in the hole where the connector should be, so I can't tell if its been pushed into the track or broken off.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I have heard of several ways to clean the track, rubbing alcohol with a green scotchbrite pad being one of the best. You need only worry about cleaning the top surface which is where the wheels pick up the power. Word of caution -- as tempted as you may be, NEVER, NEVER use sandpaper or steel wool. Sandpaper will remove the nickel finish which promotes electrical conductivity and steel wool will leave minute residue that becomes dirt, dust and debris in your engine and rolling stock. Some folks have found and used a special type burnishing wheel installed on a bench grinder. However they are expensive. I imagine you have only a few pieces, so I would try the first method. Others may add their two cents as well. Weigh each sugggestion and try the cheapest through the most expensive until you find one that works. As far as the "connectors", these are steel pins that are pushed into the end hole of one rail --- the opposing rail will have the pin on the other side when assembling them. If one is missing, or pushed in too far, simply get new ones -- available at most hobby stores -- and push it in about halfway or so. The steel pin should have a slight nib or nibs formed on it. That is the end that should be inserted into the rail -- the nibs will hold it inside preventing it from pushing in too far when inserting the next track section. If your local hobby shop does not have these, Portlines does and they are relatively cheap, maybe $2 or $3 a dozen.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Oh, I know I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself here, but what is the best way to clean the tracks? Also, I have a few pieces where the connectors are not there. There is something in the hole where the connector should be, so I can't tell if its been pushed into the track or broken off.


Get a "bright-boy" from your local train shop. It looks like a school pink eraser, but it has very fine particles embedded into it to clean and polish track. It's a little more labor intensive but well worth the effort. When I do track, I get a bunch of it, sit in front of the tv in the basement while the wife is next to me on her computer. It's a nice quiet evening, watching the tube, and having one of the best things in life sitting next to me. Now the pins...Sometimes they are broken off right at the track, and the pins are "pinched" into the track end. Sometimes they come out, sometimes they don't. The ones that don't come out, I use as pieces I can cut, not wanting to destroy good track. You can buy aftermarket track that is wonderful stuff. GarGraves comes into mind right off. It's great stuff, and my engines loved it when I was using it. If you are going to use original track, get yourself some rubber roadbed. It will cut down on the noise, and it looks nice. It's pricey, but if you just do a small oval, it would be around $50 bucks, figure $2-$3 bucks per piece, U.S.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Oh, I know I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself here, but what is the best way to clean the tracks? Also, I have a few pieces where the connectors are not there. There is something in the hole where the connector should be, so I can't tell if its been pushed into the track or broken off.


When you clean your track, check the insulating paper attached to the ties. Make sure it's complete and not broken/missing.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I use Scotchbrite for heavy soil, and for general cleaning, 99% Isopropyl alcohol is my solvent of choice. I've never needed anything else.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Silence -- Here is a link to a copy of a 1949 American Flyer Manual. This might answer many questions you have. And if not, it still makes for good reading and knowledge of those great Flyer trains. See below.....

http://www.thortrains.net/flyermanual.pdf


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## Reckers

Wicked_Silence said:


> Oh, I know I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself here, but what is the best way to clean the tracks? Also, I have a few pieces where the connectors are not there. There is something in the hole where the connector should be, so I can't tell if its been pushed into the track or broken off.


Silence, about those missing connectors, or pins: first, you can buy replacement pins from any Local Hobby Shop (LHS, on this site) that handles S scale track. Second, those pieces still inside the track are either broken pins you need to extract or intact pins that have been pushed inside, and the broken ones often have enough length to reuse. The extraction process is something you feel your way through, based on what tools you have available and your personal tendency to punch lil holes in your fingertips with small, pointy tools. My suggestion is to proceed in this manner:

1. Find a small screwdriver, set of nippers, or any other device that will allow you to pry up the tabs on the crosstie nearest the end. Your objective is to get it up enough to allow your needle-nose pliers to grip it and bend it up evenly without breaking it off. What you're doing is loosening the tie enough that you can slide it down toward the next tie and free up the ends of the rails.

2. This done, take a good, well-lit look at the slit in the bottom of the rail and determine where the end of the pin is. You want to insert a jeweler's screwdriver or any other slim, strong object into the slit a little bit behind where the pin ends: leave yourself a gap to get an additional tool in between the screwdriver and the pin's end.

3.Insert another screwdriver, knife-blade or other slim object behind the pin and push it out of the end of the rail. If it's long, reuse it; if not, throw it away. Remove all of your tools from the track.


To install a new pin, turn it so the notched side is down and insert it into the open end of the rail. Work the cross-tie back into the correct position and lay the track flat on a table surface. Make sure the paper insulator is positioned properly. Use your needle-nosed pliers to get the tabs started in the right direction, then use the tip of a strong, broad blade-tipped screwdriver to evenly flatten the tab back down into the side of the rail. Finish clamping it tight with your pliers. Now, go to the end of the rail, make sure the pin is where is should be (notch should be visible at the end of the rail) and use needle-nosed pliers to squeeze it together, but only squeese the vertical walls of the rail beneath the crown of the track: you don't want to squeeze and deform the top, horizontal surface the wheels run on. You're done!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

What's up Silence? Haven't heard much since the Royal Blue was rejuvenated back to life. Any future plans to service the motor, new parts, etc? Other than seeing her nearly do a nose-dive off to the floor, I have yet to see her run. Let us know what you need --we're here to help.


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## Wicked_Silence

Hey, sorry. I work alot of hours on the weekends so other then popping in and checking my email and what-not, I don't do much over the weekend other then sleep. Will be trying to work on this a little more today. I picked up a can of contact cleaner at Canadian tire that is suppose to be good on plastics and what-not. I tried Radio Shack (The Source in Canada) and the only contact cleaner they had was corrosive and not usable on plastic. 

For the 'eraser', I have a grey one that I use to clean my HO tracks, would that work for these as well?


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## Kwikster

Wicked_Silence said:


> For the 'eraser', I have a grey one that I use to clean my HO tracks, would that work for these as well?


That should be fine, however if the track has much rust or other contaminates you may need the scotch-brite pads. You can spot test on the worst piece of track you have and see how much "elbow grease" is needed and go from there.

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I don't know about the stores available North-of-the-Border, but we have Sam's Clubs here, a division of WalMart, that are a warehouse type store. I can get about 15 Scotchbrite pads for next to nothing and they last nearly forever. I know they are also available at our local grocery stores in a smaller quantity. So if the 'eraser' doesn't do the job, or wears your elbow out, try a couple of these pads and maybe a little rubbing alcohol in a rough spot on the track to see how well it works. And I can understand the need for rest when working weekends, done so a lot myself. Your health and family should always come first -- but American Flyers rank near the top tier of the priority list, somewhere around cold beer and action movies. Best wishes and Good Luck -- write to us if you have issues.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Just a reminder, if you decide to update with new parts, it may take some time before they arrive from when you order them. You may wish to order them soon so that when you are ready, they will have arrived. Something to think about if you go that route.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well this is going to have to go on the back-burner for a little bit. It seems that in my enthusiasm to get this going, I picked up some contact cleaner, popped out the drum and brushes, gave them a good spray and let them dry for a day or so. Put the reverse unit back together and no I get nothing. No even a shutter, the electric hum sound can be heard, but thats it. No movement. I think I killed it.


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## Kwikster

Nah, you didn't "kill it". It's likely something got mis-assembled which is very easy to do your first time. I'd suggest posting some close up pics, if possible, and the guys will help you. In reality it's usually something simple. 

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Like Kwister says, post some photos of what you have so we can see it up close. e sure to post different angles so we all around. id you by chance reverse the fingers - place the top set in the side and vice-versa? I don't think it's possible, but could the drum be inserted backwards? These are all things we need to determine. Look forward to get those pics and don't feel low, we know she works, we all saw it. She'll run again.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

WS --

At the worst, if by chance it is messed up beyond repair (which I doubt), I just found a used reverse unit for this loco on eBay for a mere $7.00 (US). So if it becomes necessary, another unit can replace that one. But do not become depressed. There are lots of issues to review before we write this one off. I know previously you work a lot of weekend hours, so I won't expect much from you until Monday or so. Enjoy your weekend and a break from this repair effort.


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## flyernut

If you're fed up with it, send it to me. I'll see what I can do, fix it, and send her back.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I think any of us would graciously offer to help by fixing it for him. But deep down, I think all of us would also like to see him learn to do the repairs himself so that he can benefit from the experience and earn a respect for his own abilities. I'm confident he will succeed and I am willing to give him all the time and support he needs. A good part of the fun of this hobby is learning how to accomplish things we didn't know.


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## Wicked_Silence

Yeah, I'd like to get this thing running myself if possible. I'll keep the offer in mind FlyerNut. 

I am seriously thinking about picking up that other reverse unit, I mean its extra parts at the very least.


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## Kwikster

Wicked_Silence said:


> Yeah, I'd like to get this thing running myself if possible. I'll keep the offer in mind FlyerNut.


I have little doubt you will accomplish it. You've already shown, you have some ability, which will serve you well. I'd start by re-inspecting the work on the reverse unit, if you haven't already done so. Ensure, the drum is installed correctly, and the finger boards are properly placed. Having not seen an AF reverse unit in person, not sure how similar they are to Lionel. If they're similar then maybe using T-mans video would be of help.

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Looking at the AF Service Manual exploded view, it appears the drum should be inserted with the ratchet teeth toward the right side of the boiler. The fingers look like the set that is centered should be on the top of the reverse unit, while the set that is offset should be on the front of the unit with the offset toward the right side of the boiler. If anyone can confirm that please do.

Wicked -- check your reverse unit to see if that is how these items are installed.


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## Wicked_Silence

Wel hven't had time to play with this since its my work weekend. I picked-up something off a few trader here and was issued a partial refund, so now I've got $10 USD in my paypal account. Was wondering if someone would be willing to go shopping for the parts I need and send em up too me for that $10? Remember I am in Canada, but for the parts needed, I think a bubble mailer would suffice so it shouldn't be too much for shipping. LMK.

Also, I can't seem to find that reverse unit on ebay Nuttin. Can you post or message me a link?

Thanks again all. I haven't given up yet, but it is a little discouraging.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wicked --- To be honest, I doubt you need to replace the one you have. They are easily rebuilt with new and/or used parts. The one I saw was on eBay probably is sold already. However, they show up there often. So if you are really serious about replacing yours, I can try to get one for you. But let me offer this idea -- send yours to me and I'll check it and replace the parts as necessary. If you are pleased with that offer, PM me and I'll give you my home address so you can send it to me. Again, I only would need the reverse unit and the parts you removed from it -- nothing more than that. Let me know.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well I still wanna fix this thing myself.  Was just thinking about parts and apparently you can't get just the drum by itself. I honestly think I messed the fingers up and they are stretched out of shape from the cleaner.

Will try and get some good pics of them when I am finished work for the weekend.

Plus, if I grab cheap parts now while they are still available, I won't have to worry about hunting for them later.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

As suggested before, Portlines Hobby -- http://www.portlines.com/ -- has the parts you need including the drum. The fingers are cheap, like $3 US. I believe the drum may be $15 but I doubt yours is bad as that is unusual. Do you still have the attachement from the email message I sent in the beginning? I included ordering instructions and part numbers for the Portlines web site. If you do not have it, I can send it again. Do your weekend work and we can touch base again during the week. There is no rush to get this done, but we want it done right so we will take our time.


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## flyernut

The drums RARELY go bad. I had 1 in the past 10 years that was bad. Fingers are cheap, and they can easily be bought on ebay cheap, sometimes even free shipping. For a quick down and dirty estimate, fingers, brushes, brush springs, and maybe 2 foot of super flex wire, you should have all the parts necessary to rebuild the reverse unit and motor. That's about all I have ever done to my engines to make them purr. (Also re-surface the armature). Less than 15 bucks, USD. Another tid-bit; I sometimes use cold gun blue to freshen up the sheet metal tender trucks, and anything else that had a blued or browned stain from the factory.Make sure the metal is clean and oil free, heat it up a little with a propane torch, and start bluing. Works great. Polish it up with some light oil. Looks factory fresh.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wicked -- Another thing, Portlines accepts PayPal. So you could use that balance you have when placing an order. Just email him to let him know that is how you wish to pay and he will send you a receipt for you to pay using your PayPal account.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wicked -- Found this reverse unit on eBay, but only 50 minutes left if you are around to see it. Not sure if it will work in your boiler unit, but the parts internally should be interchangeable with yours. Up to you if you wish to obtain it. But a word of caution, I doubt you need to do this unless you just want extra parts. Up to you......
http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...688730?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20c850c01a


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wicked -- Check out this Royal Blue on eBay. If I can convince the Boss to allow it, I may try bidding on her.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

DUH --- Forgot the link....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...173607?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3cc8a32827


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## Wicked_Silence

Wow. I knew that it was worth something, but crap. 

Well, we will see what I can do with this one. If I can get it up and running, I'll be tossing it on my son's ceiling. To run around the roof of his room. So knowing that, I might have some buildings and accessories up for grabs shortly.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Wicked -- Check out this Royal Blue on eBay. If I can convince the Boss to allow it, I may try bidding on her.


I don't believe it's worth it. It seems over-priced to me, it's a buy it now, so no bidding, and the shipping is outrageous. Save your money..


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## Nuttin But Flyer

My 2010 price guide has it listed from $50-$178. The condition didn't look too bad compared to some I've seen. The description states that it runs well. I realize it is a 'Buy It Now', but that seems like a fair price considering all that I mentioned. Certainly I have not seen many of these to do a complete comparison, so I am no expert. But I've seen other Flyer steam engines go for much more than they were worth. That being said, I guess it is up to the person doing the purchasing if they feel the price is fair and how much they value owning the item.

You keep working on yours Wicked. You'll be proud as hell when she is chugging around your son's ceiling.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Found this Royal Blue on eBay to be used for parts. Wicked may find this to be a decent investment to get extra parts for his....if the winning bid is right??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...552140?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4605e4334c


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Found this Royal Blue on eBay to be used for parts. Wicked may find this to be a decent investment to get extra parts for his....if the winning bid is right??
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...552140?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4605e4334c


How do people determine shipping costs???? A flat rate is only $10 bucks, and priority is even cheaper.


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## Kwikster

Those people haven't discovered using flat rate boxes I'd guess. My purchases from e-bay have all come Fed-Ex. One guy paid a whopping 21 cents extra to ensure it, and didn't ask for it back 

Carl


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## gunrunnerjohn

Flat rate only works if the item fits in the box.


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## Wicked_Silence

I've got that on my watch list Nuttin, thanks. With 4 days left on the auction, I doubt that the $19 will stand for the winning bid though.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I am only advising you to buy it for spare parts to have on hand. You should not need anything from this to repair yours. Yours should still be repairable with some minor replacement parts from Portlines or another reputable hobby dealer.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

One thing I should mention, there is an "O" scale version of this engine out there by American Flyer. I believe it was made pre-WWII, but am not sure. However, it looks very similar to yours so be careful when attempting to get spare used parts.


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## Wicked_Silence

Hi, I know its been a bit but got tied up with some stuff. I think I'm going to give this one more shot to see if I can't get it working myself. But I'm confused with part numbers and availability from Portlines. Was wondering if anyone would be willing to grab the parts I need locally and send them too me? Can give a complete list of what I think I need. Portlines wants a minimum of $6.00 for shipping the stuff and I know the stuff I want is only about $8-$10. I'll paypal what is owed and add for a bubble mailer and postage as thats all it would take to get these things out. Plus, the last thing I want to do is place the order and wind up with an envelope full of the wrong parts.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wicked -- A while back I sent you an email with an attachment that outlined all the directions on how to proceed with your servicing. In that same attachment, I included the correct part numbers of all parts you would need and instructions on how to order them from Portlines web site. Do you still have that email and/or attachment?? If you do not, I can resend. Portlines takes PayPal payments so you can use whatever remains in your account to get these items. If you do not wish to use their website, simply email Doug Peck at Portlines (email address on his website) and tell him what you need. He will email a receipt to you to pay with your PayPal and then he will send your order. It's as simple as that. If you still feel overwhelmed, I'll gladly get the parts to you. Let me know what you want to do.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well I'd hate to tell you all this but I took another look at the engine today and I think I did something wrong................





























http://youtu.be/A26ExYw-v1Y


I even got the screw shank out of the lowers with the help of a small drill bit and a dremel. now just gotta pick up an 4-40NC screw to fit and I can attach the tender to the engine.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I looked at the video but didn't see anything wrong. What do you think went wrong?


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## Wicked_Silence

Nothing is wrong at all Flyer. Its alive, ITS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again. If you noticed where I had the wires attached, they were on the axels of the tender. I've removed the screw shank from the undercarriage as well and now I've got a new screw holding the tender in place. It moves and works fine, now I just gotta clean the contact points on the tender and clean the track. Had it moving slightly on the tracks, but they need a really good cleaning.


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## Kwikster

That's simply awesome to hear. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Aren't glad now you stepped up and did it yourself? 

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Makes ya proud, doesn't it? Good job. I'm glad you took the initiative to give it a shot in the first place. I take it you don't need new parts? Or did you want some for spares?


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well I'd hate to tell you all this but I took another look at the engine today and I think I did something wrong................
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> http://youtu.be/A26ExYw-v1Y
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> I even got the screw shank out of the lowers with the help of a small drill bit and a dremel. now just gotta pick up an 4-40NC screw to fit and I can attach the tender to the engine.


Any screw will not work. It has to be the correct shoulder screw, part # 4939, available through Portlines. If you use a regular screw without the shoulder, it will cause a bind on the tender draw bar. The correct shoulder screw will bottom out, giving the tender bar movement.


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks guys, I feel better knowing that I did this myself. I'll probably end up picking up some parts for spares as the fingers are pretty shot and I don't expect will last very long due to being fagile with age. I also know that I'll need to replace the wire from the tender to the loco because the stuff I was going to use ended up being too heavy of a gauge to fit both pieces thru the gromet in the tender. Lastly, I didn't have much choice about the screw I used as I tried everything I could think of to get the shank out of the body so when I finally drilled and retapped the hole, I got the smallest 4-40 NC I could find and left it out a little bit to give the tender bar some movement and I used blue loctite to hold it in place there.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I would suggest getting those spare parts, certainly a set of new fingers, and the correct shoulder screw for that tender bar. Then replace the tender screw you installed so you have no further problems with it. Even all those parts can be purchased through Portlines for a minimal amount including the $6 shipping. I'm still waiting to see her chugging around the track and your son's wide-eyed amazement when he sees it.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well other then cleaning up some more track and doing a final cleaning on the tender contacts, I think she is done. 

http://youtu.be/X8hm1U8u2As

Just for you Nuttin.  Thanks guys for all your help. This wouldn't have been possible without your input.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

OMG - I feel like a proud Grandpa watchin' his grandson take his first steps!!!! My best to you Wicked for stepping up and finding the courage, patience and ambition to tackle this project. I'm sure you feel about as proud as I do. I can tell your son is thrilled too. My thanks was helping you to get through this project successully. No further thanks is necessary. However, many others on this Forum offered their two cents as well. They deserve as much thanks for all their suggestions and expertise. I hope you are now a permanent member of the vintage American Flyer family. Perhaps this will be the catalyst to get you into expanding your collection?? BTW - Has your friend seen what you accomplished with his "former" train set? Also....if you grow tired of your Royal Blue, I'll gladly take it off your hands now that I know its history -- just kidding. Enjoy it for years to come. Keep in touch and keep reading this Forum. There is a wealth of info and assistance available for all sorts of projects. Take care.


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## flyernut

nice!!!! Just listen to that boy!!!!


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## Wicked_Silence

flyernut said:


> nice!!!! Just listen to that boy!!!!


Well I don't know which your talking about the son or the train, but either or....... thank you for the help as well. Some small stuff that still needs to be looked after but it works and thats a huge ? that has been answered.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well I don't know which your talking about the son or the train, but either or....... thank you for the help as well. Some small stuff that still needs to be looked after but it works and thats a huge ? that has been answered.


I meant your son..


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## Reckers

Congratulations, Wicked, and welcome to the AF family!


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