# Our family layout coming together



## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Living in Pennsy in the winter with three boys 9,7, & 2 can be challenging to say the least so I decided to close off my side of the garage and build a little layout with the boys. We already had a Lionel diesel, Atlas track, tmcc set and some switches... we just needed some space. I set up a little loop that we've been playing with and we bought a new MTH mikado and the DCS equipment and really like it.

Here's a few pics of our progress. Being from SW Pa, we decided to model our set up after the area with possibly a coal mine and a steel mill. We also made up a little horseshoe curve that the little guys really likes. Hopefully, we'll have the trains running this weekend on a temp track layout.




























Forgot to mention... Go Steelers!


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

looks good, i like the track too


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That incline looks pretty steep, have you tested that with a full length train?


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

That looks like a lot of fun. It looks like everybody is getting some lessons and woodworking and train building. That's a great way to keep away from the cold.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

looks like good beginning.
that O scale track with actual ties looks much better. but the third rail in the middle, as camouflaged as it may be, still completely kills it for me.

BTW,
i merged some of your posts: more info on single page, more compact thread, easier to read.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

tankist said:


> looks like good beginning.
> that O scale track with actual ties looks much better. but the third rail in the middle, as camouflaged as it may be, still completely kills it for me.


Me too. I just can't get into smaller stuff. I saw a layout a few years back with a 2 rail o layout that was amazing. Maybe someday we'll change up.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Vladio,

Looks like fun ... I know the drill with my kids ... they love this stuff.

Do check that incline slope ... does look steep to me.

Why did you partition off the garage? A heat issue ???

Cheers,

TJ


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That incline looks pretty steep, have you tested that with a full length train?


We've run trains with 8-10 cars and it worked with no problem. I don't think we'll be running anything really long any time soon... I'm self employed and business is horrible right now. I really have to balance certain aspects of laying this out and the kids really like it so I'm trading off a bit of realism for excited kids. I'll probably always make that trade off. lol.



tjcruiser said:


> Vladio,
> 
> Looks like fun ... I know the drill with my kids ... they love this stuff.
> 
> ...


Yah, heat. My garage isn't as well insulated as it could/should be and my house is 25 years old so it's a bit leaky in the garage area. Also, with the crap they put on the road in the winter there a good bit of dust that gets airborne. This area is pretty well sealed off and I have a furnace register in there.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Looks like you got a plan.:thumbsup:

Track looks good too. You have any switches yet?


Some here ought to get over the third rail.
I only heard that remark around 100,000 times here on this site. Not just tank, but the rest too.

Give it a rest!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What's the percent grade on that incline? Maybe I'm being too conservative in my planning.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

big ed said:


> Looks like you got a plan.:thumbsup:
> 
> Track looks good too. You have any switches yet?
> 
> ...


We have 4 - 036 Atlas and I found 2 054's on sale in strasburg last week for $35 each and couldn't pass them up.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What's the percent grade on that incline? Maybe I'm being too conservative in my planning.


I checked after reading the posts earlier today and it's about 3.5 degrees. Not proto but the kids really like it. Kids trump reality for the next few years. lol.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I remembered that when I was younger there was a railway that used a third rail. In a search WALLAA!!!
Ammo against the "2 Rail is the ONLY REAL" railway ranters!:laugh:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

vladio said:


> I checked after reading the posts earlier today and it's about 3.5 degrees. Not proto but the kids really like it. Kids trump reality for the next few years. lol.



Not proto?


a copy and paste,
Completed in 1841, the Madison incline of 7,012 feet was - and remains today - the steepest grade of any line-haul railroad in the country. The incline ascends 413 feet, or 311 feet per mile, giving the tracks a 5.89 percent grade.

For those interested in a little history,
http://www.oldmadison.com/madview2.html


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Sean it don't matter to them. 
They will bash anyway.

I don't put down any scale.........even S.

Some say O are just toys.......hell all scales are just toys!

Some are just bigger.:cheeky4: Or smaller.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

big ed said:


> Not proto?
> 
> 
> a copy and paste,
> ...


Well, I guess I'm feeling a little better. lol. I guess what I meant was the actual grade of Horseshoe Curve.

Now that we're dogless we have a trip to H.S. Curve on our to do list for the summer. Can't wait.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

vladio said:


> Well, I guess I'm feeling a little better. lol. I guess what I meant was the actual grade of Horseshoe Curve.
> 
> Now that we're dogless we have a trip to H.S. Curve on our to do list for the summer. Can't wait.




Horseshoe curve?

This one?










Study and copy the back ground if you want the old Horseshoe curve look for your layout.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A real photo? Old Steamer for you.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

vladio said:


> I checked after reading the posts earlier today and it's about 3.5 degrees. Not proto but the kids really like it. Kids trump reality for the next few years. lol.


3.5%? It looked a lot steeper than that, I guess the picture angle was deceiving.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

NIMT.COM said:


> I remembered that when I was younger there was a railway that used a third rail. In a search WALLAA!!!
> Ammo against the "2 Rail is the ONLY REAL" railway ranters!:laugh:


That's a Cog railway, for steep inclines. I've ridden the one that goes up to the top of Mt. Washington in NH a few times with my wife and kids. Lots of fun going up ... a bit daunting going down ... the train needs a brakeman in the loco and in the passenger cars playing the brakes the whole way back down the mountain.

For anyone who's ever in NH, highly recommended.

TJ


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

We finally got the top section done and, with much fanfare, put on our new Mikado, fired it up and disappointment. While my scale gp30 climbs the grade with no problem, the Mikado does not. It spins with nothing connected.

I'm using a really generic process to figure out the grade. I use a level and protractor. It's okay but i'd like something a little easier to use and more accurate. Okay, I just found an app for the Iphone. I'll download it and check it out.

What's the max incline that I should have? Any suggestions are appreciated.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Just look at the Rickbiggs comment in the Helix Thread.
The reality is: Do you want all Your engines to make it up? How much are you pulling ?


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Is 3.5 degrees doable? I can work this without lowering the bridge and ALL the track I just built.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

3.5% should work, generally 4% is considered the maximum. You may have problems with some engine/train combinations on that grade, and it'll depend on the curves, the sharper the curve, the more friction you'll have, and the less grade you can tolerate.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> 3.5% should work, generally 4% is considered the maximum. You may have problems with some engine/train combinations on that grade, and it'll depend on the curves, the sharper the curve, the more friction you'll have, and the less grade you can tolerate.


The inner curve is Atlas 36. I'm going to play around with it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm thinking of trying a 42 diameter helix, I was inspired by the posting of that impressive layout.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

I think I talked my wife into letting me do some more 'organization' of the basement that will give me enough room to try a 42 dia helix. I'm pretty sure she agreed. If rolling eyes, no comment and walking away are agreement.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

erkenbrand said:


> I think I talked my wife into letting me do some more 'organization' of the basement that will give me enough room to try a 42 dia helix. I'm pretty sure she agreed. If rolling eyes, no comment and walking away are agreement.



Thats total agreement!

If she didn't give you the number 1 finger your good.:laugh:


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Hard to believe that after almost a month of work on the room and track we still don't have trains running. The expression on my 2 year olds face when I tell him it's "still not ready" is starting to get hard to take. But, it looks like we're getting close. I redid the curve today. Bought another 4 x 8 and recut it to accommodate a 54" curve so I did away with the 36... it's too much for the slope. I'm able to climb with no problem up the 45 half circle that used to be the outer curve - now it's the inner with the 54 as the new outer curve. 

I found a really cool app for my iphone that's really helped out, it's called TiltMeter. It basically turns the phone into a level. I set it on the track and it displays the angle in both x and y. I've set it up on a flat car and use my gp to push the car up the track while I keep an eye on the the display.

Also, a big thanks to Atlas for their free track layout software. I've been playing around with it and it really does take a lot of guesswork out of laying track.

Oh well, time to get back at it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

big_ed, I agree. Some of us guys are playing with TOY TRAINS. We are not worried about making it look real. I certainly am not as my layouts don't resemble anything prototypical. I am having fun watching the trains go around a very complex layout. When my carpet grows into realistic landscape, then I will worry about the 3rd rail. 

BB


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## RHD03 (Dec 27, 2010)

Looks like fun for you and the kids!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> big_ed, I agree. Some of us guys are playing with TOY TRAINS. We are not worried about making it look real. I certainly am not as my layouts don't resemble anything prototypical. I am having fun watching the trains go around a very complex layout. When my carpet grows into realistic landscape, then I will worry about the 3rd rail.
> 
> BB



All scales are just toys.:thumbsup:


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Well, after completely reworking the incline we ran our train today for the first time. I lowered to second level by an inch and a half and extended the grade which brought it down to 4%. If I had more space I'd stretch it out to a more prototypical grade but it is what it is.

More photo's to come soon.

Thanks for all your help everyone!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

How do the trains run on the 4% incline?


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> How do the trains run on the 4% incline?


Fine. I connected a half dozen 40+ year old rolling stock that are so gummed up they won't roll down the slope and it pulled with no problems.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm going to build a multi-level platform, so I'm starting to get interested in how well engines pull these grades. I think the dual-motor diesels with magnatraction should be able to handle the grades, not so sure about steamers with a single motor and the traction tires. I have some other engines that may be problematic as well...


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

I'd like to see how the single engine steamers do too. I've started sketching a multilevel addition to my layout, and it's going to be hard to do at much less than 4%.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the older ones without magnatraction or traction tires will have difficulty with steep grades if they have any load. My first attempt will probably be with my DASH-8 Amtrak diesel, it has dual motors and four traction tires. I also have a 12 wheel Conrail diesel with magnatraction on 8 wheels and dual motors. I'm converting that one to TMCC as well, and it'll probably handle the grades.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Vladio,
oil up those PW cars and you can probably pull at least a dozen cars up the grade. 

BB


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm going to build a multi-level platform, so I'm starting to get interested in how well engines pull these grades. I think the dual-motor diesels with magnatraction should be able to handle the grades, not so sure about steamers with a single motor and the traction tires. I have some other engines that may be problematic as well...


Well, that's what caused all the redos. My Diesel pulled no problem - dual motors, but the new steamer had some issues. I did away with the 36" turn, cut an all new curve with the old outer 45" curved moved to the inside and a new 54" curve on the out. I also lowered the height from 7.75" to 6.5" which brought the grade down to a rough 4%. A good cleaning job on the traction tires helped too.

Not too sure about diesels with magnatraction... maybe some older models? Mine's a 2003 Lionel and has rubber traction tires. I swear, I could take them off and it would still pull. 



erkenbrand said:


> I'd like to see how the single engine steamers do too. I've started sketching a multilevel addition to my layout, and it's going to be hard to do at much less than 4%.


Here's a quick vid of our layout for you too see the climb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slgd1BGSOKk


:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a mix of traction tires and magnatraction. I have a dual-motor with magnatraction that I'm going to upgrade to TMCC.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Project's coming along well. Got the shelf for the power set up and home made led's mounted. We're starting to install some switches and getting ideas as to how we're going to add detail.





















We're going to add a power brick and use the old 1033 for lights so I left extra space.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

We used homosote as the top surface. Should this be painted before we start to land scape? I'm assuming any liquid on it would not be good. If so, any advice on color?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Do you have TMCC and DCS on that layout?


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

What color is your base landscape going to be? If you get a paint that matches that - like green to match your grass, tan if you're going desert, etc, it will make it easier to cover when you start moving ahead with cover.

And you're definitely going to want to paint that. If somebody spills a glass of water, you're going to have brand new hills where you weren't expecting them.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Do you have TMCC and DCS on that layout?


LOL, both right now. I can keep two kids happy at the same time.



erkenbrand said:


> What color is your base landscape going to be? If you get a paint that matches that - like green to match your grass, tan if you're going desert, etc, it will make it easier to cover when you start moving ahead with cover.
> 
> And you're definitely going to want to paint that. If somebody spills a glass of water, you're going to have brand new hills where you weren't expecting them.


NorthEast so prob need a forest green. Flat latex?


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Yup, that'll work. Anything that won't stand out and catch your eye through the ground cover.


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