# Well [email protected]%[email protected] lol.................



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

So I grabbed a 100ft roll of shrink wrap.

Ordered some 1k resistors in both styles.

Ordered some LED prewired.


LEDs come in today and didn't light off a 1.5 AA...............

Go check the purchase history and they are 9-12v LED.

I try and do it right and I can't win.

Guess that makes my decoder installs that much easier then


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Damn I'm confused now.

I need the 1k resistor to limit current with the 9-12v LED correct?

Maybe I'm just going nuts lol


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Yeah, there abouts. They are cheap. Experiment to gain knowledge.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

lol

This is what happens when I planned jobs to do during my vacation. Got woke up with "my car won't start" and I couldn't even mow the lawn after I fixed the car, as soon as I went to engage the blades ping, there goes the clutch cable.

Derailed my carefully laid plans and the LEDs just showed up in the mailbox. Thinking tonight will be first guinea pig harness.

Have 4 GP9s to do and one SD7 to rid them of old noisy or missing decoders. Thought might as well do LEDs while I'm there since at least 2 are the old school light board from P2K and they run sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

There should be a resistor under the heat shrink. The ones I bought have one on one leg, they are hard to see but can be made out, possibly 1/8 watt.

Edit: 100 ft of shrink, wow!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bwells said:


> Edit: 100 ft of shrink, wow!!!


I get the commonly used colors and sizes in 100 ft rolls, they go quicker than you might imagine.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Bwells said:


> There should be a resistor under the heat shrink. The ones I bought have one on one leg, they are hard to see but can be made out, possibly 1/8 watt.
> 
> Edit: 100 ft of shrink, wow!!!


I'll have to double check the wiring and see if I see anything extra.

100ft roll is double what the slaps sell you 3ft of it for from TCS.........

I'm going to start selling 3ft sections for $3 with mail included withing the continental US 

I just got the roll, Have about 6 things on my table I need to do. Have a sound install or two to work on after them, so I will make a dent in it quick


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Just curious but is there a resistor under the shrink tubing?


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

The pre-wired LED strips are almost always set up for a 12v supply, because it's a common value and because a lot of people use them on vehicles.

However just to (hopefully) clarify the confusion... Most LEDs take a voltage of around 2.0-2.3 VDC, but even if you have the right voltage, you must still use a resistor (although a much smaller value) to limit the current. Think of an LED as similar to a wire -- if you place it across a voltage source, it will essentially short out and suck ALL the available amperage as fast as possible, quickly overheating and burning out. The resistor ensures that can't happen.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Bwells said:


> There should be a resistor under the heat shrink. The ones I bought have one on one leg, they are hard to see but can be made out, possibly 1/8 watt.
> 
> Edit: 100 ft of shrink, wow!!!


................... sorry it took awhile to get back, forgot to check.

There is a resistor under the shrink wrap.

What is common LED resistance?

I can hit it with the ohm meter to figure it out, but not sure what a normal LED resistance is?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you want to run your LED's at 20ma (max current for a majority of common consumer LEDs), figure on 50 ohms for each volt you want to drop.

The operating voltage for LED's vary from around 1.6-2.0 volts for red, a little over 2 volts for green, and around 3 volts for blue or white ones. 

Take a white LED and power it from 12 volts, you need at least 450 ohms of resistance to drop the 9 volts from 12 volts to three volts for the LED. Note that you can run them at lower currents (higher resistance) with no issues, but running them at higher currents will seriously shorten their lifespan.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Bwells said:


> Just curious but is there a resistor under the shrink tubing?





Shdwdrgn said:


> The pre-wired LED strips are almost always set up for a 12v supply, because it's a common value and because a lot of people use them on vehicles.
> 
> However just to (hopefully) clarify the confusion... Most LEDs take a voltage of around 2.0-2.3 VDC, but even if you have the right voltage, you must still use a resistor (although a much smaller value) to limit the current. Think of an LED as similar to a wire -- if you place it across a voltage source, it will essentially short out and suck ALL the available amperage as fast as possible, quickly overheating and burning out. The resistor ensures that can't happen.


There is a resistor under the wrap that I can see.

Now the question is, why the [email protected]#$#$!# can I not get a reading on my Fluke? Even stripped a chunk off the ends of the wires and wrapped the leads and nothing. Swapped leads as well.

I tested 2-3 like this and got the same result.

I'll dig out a 9v tomorrow, staying up late because I'm back on nights tomorrow and no rummaging about the house at 12am when everyone else is sleeping.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you're reading on ohms, the diode prevents you from getting a reading.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

That's what I was thinking, but isn't a diode one way and you should be able to read the other.

I guess I'm going to be gutting one of these to find the resistance then.....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

In the forward direction, there's still a diode drop, remember they don't light up until you get to a couple of volts. An LED will appear to be an open circuit in either direction with a standard ohmmeter.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> In the forward direction, there's still a diode drop, remember they don't light up until you get to a couple of volts. An LED will appear to be an open circuit in either direction with a standard ohmmeter.


Ok, that's what I thought!(about the open circuit part) due to the design of them.

Amazingly hard to find while trying to google answers, but I started to assume it since the anode/cathode design has a gap

Thanks again, sure I'll be back for more.

So I guess my check will be hooking them to a known voltage and testing for milliamps?


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

They light with a 9v. Good enough for now, guess next time I'm off work I will get a start on a project or two and we shall see

Have to pick up some new fine soldering tips.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Stick a pin through the shrink and read the resistor that way. The few I have tested all read less than stated, I.E. a 220 may read 211Ω, a 330 may read 315Ω. I guess that has to do with the tolerance band. The majority of mine are gold which I think is 10%.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Bwells said:


> Stick a pin through the shrink and read the resistor that way. The few I have tested all read less than stated, I.E. a 220 may read 211Ω, a 330 may read 315Ω. I guess that has to do with the tolerance band. The majority of mine are gold which I think is 10%.


Great, so after all that I'm still going to have to add in another resistor to drop it down some more.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

No! If the LEDs you have are the same as mine, the supplied resistor is adequate, you don't need another. I figured you were interested in the value of the resistor used and I am also but I really don't care what it is. John says a clear needs 450Ω, expect to read something close or a little higher. I think standard resistors around that range would be 440 or 520, I'd have to look them up but assume it is higher than 450 as that value does not ring a bell as being standard. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Bwells said:


> The majority of mine are gold which I think is 10%.


Gold is 5%, black is 1% (and will have 5 bands instead of 4). LEDs aren't super-critical, so the 5% resistors are perfectly fine unless you are trying to push the limits for maximum brightness.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Ok, thanks for the correction. I was running on memory but as you can see, it failed me.
The readings I got would be inline with a 5% tolerance. Good to know, thanks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can also use the meter to measure the current to the unit. crank the voltage up until you get 20ma, that's the rated voltage for the unit.


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## TomFromMo (Aug 9, 2016)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Gold is 5%, black is 1% (and will have 5 bands instead of 4). LEDs aren't super-critical, so the 5% resistors are perfectly fine unless you are trying to push the limits for maximum brightness.


I believe brown is 1%. 

Found this chart. Resistor Color Codes


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

TomFromMo said:


> I believe brown is 1%.


Crap, yes you're right. I was even thinking that red is 2% when I wrote that, and I know black is 0. Ah well, I tried.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Probably won't have much time to hack, I mean work on stuff until next weekend.

Might start some on some tear down work. Think the first victim, I mean project is a P2K GP9. 

4 GP9 total, so once one is sorted all can be made in one shot.

Same harness, same decoder, same light setup.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

So started the experiments tonight.

LED does indeed light off of a 9 volt.

I used one of the two more recently purchased GP9s. They have the later board equipped with the 8 pin plug in them already so faster to play with.

D13SRJ was installed w/ a 8 to 9 pin adapter and I wired the LEDs in as well.

Started it up and it was quiet as a mouse(need to do a full drive train clean/wheel gauge/lube) and went forward and back easily and very quietly so a good sign. However I had no lights.

I switched the leads opposite to how I had them hooked up. Then I realized I never turned the lights on..................... Of course they didn't work because I am about 99% sure I hooked them up properly the first time........

So before I had time to swap them back around and try again we were eating dinner and the air conditioner took a dump......

So it will have to wait for tomorrow after work now. AC is working temp. until we get the proper part in tomorrow.

I so understand why people rent now


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Some time I think those house warranty programs are worth the peace of mind.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Here is my butt arse ugly prototype to sort some things out.

Got it fully functional, so that is step one. I cheated and used the 8 pin to 9 pin adapter and the stock wire clips to sort it out.










It's ugly but it works, now on to complete tear down and proper lube. Then get some new fine soldering tips and practice for getting my little wire skills back and do a hard wire install along with proper two leads per truck.

The boy thought it was pretty cool and asked a million questions.

If only I had time to spare


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Hoping I get some free time this weekend to pick up some fine soldering tips and get my prototype GP9 hardwire/LED/DCC conversion.

Think I have 4 total to do. Will take a couple more pics if I get a functioning hard wire install done.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Operation Abortion: Phase 1 is complete.

Got a chance to get it wired up and ready to rock.

Man is that 1.75 magnifier lite nice as hell Also learned no way in hell do u splice that wire together without tinning the ends......

Hind sight may prove using any of the existing engine harness is a waste. 

It is hard wired now.

LED lights are installed and operational.

Removed the light pipes and a combo of electrical tape and Sharpie took care of extra light bleed.

Next harness will be laid out the same way, but with shorter leads for the light and hopefully some better measuring/fitting. It fits/works but could be done nicer by my own standards.

Debating adding truck pickup wire for neg. side... Not sure of worth it or not, people are divided on it as well.

All this was done after a complete tear down with the frame and weight washed with soap and water and the rest of the pieces cleaned in a bowl of hot soapy water.

Nasty lube/oil had gotten everywhere. Factory stuff is either turned to clay or someone cleaned it out and over oiled it anyhow.......


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

So I brought the prototype turd with me and the new Big Blow to the club.

I set them both up and ran the well worn newly rebuilt GP9 around for awhile, about 20-30 minutes forward and flipped her and ran her backwards for about 20-30 minutes.

Everything ran excellent, she ran smooth, quiet and good slow speed manners.

My only real complaint was I had to hit double digits on the throttle setting before she began to move, but when movement was began it was slow and steady.

I'm going to give it once over check it out and run it again and probably get the next GP9 setup before I play with decoder settings to eliminate it. Would rather know its a one off thing or going to be all off them before I mess around.

So I can add a decoder and LED lights for $15-16 bucks, I can live with that. Jut have to find some time to finish them all. Eventually the prototype beastie will probably become a GP9 B because I want one.


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## thysell (Jun 8, 2013)

Looks like you're having fun. You might want to look at some smaller diameter wire. It can help make routing things easier. I picked up some LokSound wire # 51942 for black and 51943 for red. It's really flexible too. It's kind of pricey so you have to look around for the best deal. 

You can use heat shrink tubing to cover the LED to help eliminate light bleed. You can also use it to attach the LED to a shortened light pipe too. 

Did you use a conductive oil on the brushes? I found this to help on my older motors.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

thysell said:


> Looks like you're having fun. You might want to look at some smaller diameter wire. It can help make routing things easier. I picked up some LokSound wire # 51942 for black and 51943 for red. It's really flexible too. It's kind of pricey so you have to look around for the best deal.
> 
> You can use heat shrink tubing to cover the LED to help eliminate light bleed. You can also use it to attach the LED to a shortened light pipe too.
> 
> Did you use a conductive oil on the brushes? I found this to help on my older motors.


I have prewired LEDs, so I end up using only a little bit of the larger wire u see, which is more larger insulation than anything else

I didn't use anything on the brushes other than cleaning.

It's a P2K, so I'm sure everything inside has had enough oil


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Second GP9 is up and running as of 12:00am Didn't get started on reassembly or soldering until almost 9pm when the little bozos went to sleep.

Full hard wire with added truck pickup, LED install and D13SRJ decoder.

Little cleaner than the first install. Seems to run well right off the bat.

Make it all pretty in the morning and double check everything.

Planning on running the pair Wedns. nite at the club the kid wants to go on the branch lines we haven't been to on the club layout yet.


Oh yes, for the love of God, do not buy any wire, shrink wrap or most connectors from Lok, TCS, etc. They hose you pretty bad on it all. Check out local sources and ebay for wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better pricing like 100ft for what u pay for 6ft.


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