# Preliminary layout



## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

I put the table together, picked up some extra track and have this layout so far. I'm close to the sides but I will be adding sides so nothing goes for a ride off the table. The inner loop is seperate. Also I am going to need another transformer, along with more trains, buildings and accessories.








Gary


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Looks good Gary. You are way ahead of me. I like your plan. With the bitter cold we are having here, I guess it will be spring before I get a table made. Get yourself a Lionel ZW
transformer. It has 4 throttles and has a wider range of volts than a AF transformer. It
will go lower for slower speed and go higher, not needed LOL. But you would be able to run both loops and have terminals for accessories from one transformer.


I am going to paint table top green before I secure track. Is your track secured down already?
Did you use nails or screws?


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

yd328 said:


> I put the table together, picked up some extra track and have this layout so far. I'm close to the sides but I will be adding sides so nothing goes for a ride off the table. The inner loop is seperate. Also I am going to need another transformer, along with more trains, buildings and accessories.
> View attachment 397618
> 
> 
> Gary


Gary, it looks as if you are on your way to a fine layout! Mopac offers some good advice. I did my layout on a 5x9 Ping Pong table that folds up but I am finding that is too small for my desires.:laugh: Keep us posted!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Looks good. You have what looks to me like a lot of space to work with. Have you thought about what Gilbert accessories you plan to add in the future? Things like the Log Loader and Coal Loader can affect the track spacing.
This is just a personal preference on my part but I try to never have any S curves in layouts I build. If you wanted, the two S curves on the outside loop passing track are easy to eliminate. Make the turnout at the gray 4B transformer a left hand turnout and replace the last curve section right behind the 4B with it. Move the turnout in the rear around the curve replacing the first piece of straight track with it. Use a straight section as the first piece of track on the curved leg. It might be necessary to shift the position of the inner loop slightly for clearance. Unfortunately there is not an extra LH turnout to make this work and keep the trailing point siding with clockwise running on the inner loop. To solve this challenge there are three choices. Run the inner loop counterclockwise, or buy more turnouts, or ignore me because I am making problems where there were not any!
Have Fun!


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Gary, I do have one question on your layout. What are you doing with the difference (ever so slight) of elevation where the AF tracks connect to the turnouts? I have noticed that I am having some occasional derailments when my train passes that transition. I have thought about using the AF rubber track base to bring that connection together but decided not to do so because of cost. Instead I am laying cork roadbed under the track so that there isn't any grade transition. I think that this may be a minor effect but I am working at trying to get my trains to run as smoothly as possible without any unforeseen problems. Your thoughts of anyone else would be appreciated.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The difference is most pronounced when rubber roadbed is used with the track. When I build a layout that will only be used for two months or so at the Christmas holidays I fasten down each of the three connected track sections and allow the turnout to float on the track pins. Never had any derailment problems. On all my holiday layouts for the last 15 years I have been laying the track on 1/2" white styrofoam panels to represent snow. The styrofoam will compress when the track is nailed down equalizing the height differences.
For a more permanent layout I would shim the turnouts using several layers of cardboard the thickness of department store gift boxes. If you can easily find sheets of cork that are thin enough that will work better.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Nice space and looks like lots of room to build a fine layout. Do you have any way to access the back of the layout, that appears to be close to 12 feet in length? Maybe a pop-up somewhere or is the layout mobile with casters. That would get old climbing back there quickly, at least for me. Looking to follow your progress.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Gary, I do have one question on your layout. What are you doing with the difference (ever so slight) of elevation where the AF tracks connect to the turnouts? I have noticed that I am having some occasional derailments when my train passes that transition. I have thought about using the AF rubber track base to bring that connection together but decided not to do so because of cost. Instead I am laying cork roadbed under the track so that there isn't any grade transition. I think that this may be a minor effect but I am working at trying to get my trains to run as smoothly as possible without any unforeseen problems. Your thoughts of anyone else would be appreciated.


My apologies! After reading AmFlyers post I went out into the ice and cold to my garage. I measured the difference between a separate 720a turn out and AF track. Much to my surprise, they were very close. So... I got thinking and this is why I thought that there was a difference. My board is covered by indoor/outdoor carpet. When I screwed down the turnout and track, they were compressed differently into the carpet. Thus, a difference in transition between the two of them.
Now back to the layout. I will not use cork roadbed and hopefully The Train Shop:appl: my LHS will take it back. They are quite good so I don't think that they will mind placing the cork back into stock especially if I exchange it for other items. I try to support my LHS as much as possible! In many cases they are about the same cost as online. :thumbsup:


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Gosh Fred, I did not mean for you to go immediately to the garage! I always found the height difference between the turnouts and regular track to be insignificant. Nevertheless I have had reliable operation allowing the turnouts to float rather than fastening them to the layout. Adding the rubber roadbed is what causes a significant difference in height.
Another thing I do is only fasten down the curved track ties on the inside of curves. It can give a "no effort" superelevation effect to the curves. It might or might not slightly improve operations but it definitely does no harm. I fasten down both sides of straight track.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

Thanks for the comments, all are helpful. The back side of the L is 12' and 8' at the L, basically two 4x8s put together with room to get in along the back.



mopac said:


> I am going to paint table top green before I secure track. Is your track secured down already?
> Did you use nails or screws?


I will end up painting the table before I get to a final layout. The track is just set there for now.

AmFlyer, 
I will try what you have suggested. I did notice the smaller engines are a little unstable in that area and I would like a bigger locomotive.
I do have a pair of manual turnouts that I can use. I will also be adding some of the powered features so I will have to tweak as needed.

Broke,
No derailments yet. I do plan on using bedding unless there's a better cost effective option out there.

Gary


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> Gosh Fred, I did not mean for you to go immediately to the garage! I always found the height difference between the turnouts and regular track to be insignificant. Nevertheless I have had reliable operation allowing the turnouts to float rather than fastening them to the layout. Adding the rubber roadbed is what causes a significant difference in height.
> Another thing I do is only fasten down the curved track ties on the inside of curves. It can give a "no effort" superelevation effect to the curves. It might or might not slightly improve operations but it definitely does no harm. I fasten down both sides of straight track.


Thanks Tom! It gave me a good excuse to visit my layout despite the weather.:laugh: I also have fastened the curved sections on the inside. It works especially good with the track on carpet. A good tip!:thumbsup:


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Gary, I see 6 places I would put uncouplers in the layout you designed. Now is a good time to spot those in to preclude lifting up track later. I do not see any need for fiber pins unless you want to add a Talking Station, Semaphore or Cow on Track and have them stop the trains automatically. The 2 train feature of the turnouts will allow isolation of all the loops and sidings not selected with the turnout direction.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

I do plan on adding at least the talking station. It would be interesting to set it up for the auto stop. Do you know if those use a standard Victrola needle? It looks like a similar set up.
I hope to go to a show next weekend and do a little hunting.

Gary


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

You will need a 755A, not the earlier 755 to have the auto start stop work and not have the reverse unit sequence. The newer style 799 is also fine. The Talking Station uses a steel needle to play the record. The original needles lasted years. The repro needles seem to wear quicker so buy several if you order any. I am not sure how these compare to an old Victoria needle.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

Tom,
Thanks for the station info. I have a Victrola, so I have plenty of needles for that. Once I pick up a station I will compare the needles and post.

Gary


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

I planted some grass this weekend and took out the s turns. I have another pair of turnouts on the way. I may change up the center a little also.








Gary


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Looking good!:thumbsup:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

You better get a border up. Some of that track is close to the edge. You will be sick if one takes a dive to the floor.

Looking good. I need to get off my lazy butt and make a layout.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

mopac said:


> You better get a border up. Some of that track is close to the edge. You will be sick if one takes a dive to the floor.


You're right, the boards are cut. I will not be running that loop until the guards are up.

Gary


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Looks good Gary. One suggestion on the straight track that's at the edge of the table in reference to the boards you're installing. Check the pilot overhang on your engines at the spot of the curve going into the straight. If you mount the boards straight up vertically from the edge of the plywood there's a chance the pilot will hit the board as it goes by. Maybe place a spacer block to give you some clearance. The larger the engines the more overhang at the pilot. Of course if you already have a set-up that works just ignore this.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

cramden said:


> Looks good Gary. One suggestion on the straight track that's at the edge of the table in reference to the boards you're installing. Check the pilot overhang on your engines at the spot of the curve going into the straight. If you mount the boards straight up vertically from the edge of the plywood there's a chance the pilot will hit the board as it goes by. Maybe place a spacer block to give you some clearance. The larger the engines the more overhang at the pilot. Of course if you already have a set-up that works just ignore this.


Also, don't forget about the swing of the cab..Looks great, lots of action.:appl:


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

Thanks for the tips, I'll have to take a closer look. I may also use some 1/2 pieces of track to pull it back a bit.

Gary


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## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Excellent start. It also appears you have plenty of room(straight Track) to add accessories as you go, i.e. log loader, dump cars, oil can loader etc. With my layout, space for accessories on the main lines is limited, so I use sidings for many of my accessories. And yes, you will want to get all around the table. I kinda wish I had mine built over a grease pit so I wouldn't have to crawl around so much (LOL)


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

I will be adding some operating accessories. I have a talking station on the way but will add some others. It looks like I will have clearance for the 322 on the outer loop both front and back. 
I have learned from an earlier layout the need to walk around, a work in progress. The need to reach to move, wire and build make for a more pleasant experience.

Gary


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

Nice looking layout. Lots of potential for action with accessories.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

It's starting to look more like a layout now with some accessories in place. The guards are in place on the outside and the control panel is coming together. I am going to update the transformers at some point.








Gary


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Looking real nice Gary. You will enjoy that layout. I really need to get off my butt
and make me a layout. I am going to use 1X4s for the frame. I have the 1X4s and 
guard wood for outer border. All I need would be the 1/2" plywood. Going to try
and use cork roadbed, just to deaden the sound some. Are your trains making much
noise on bare plywood?

I also have plenty of 2X4 studs that will make the legs. With levelers on the bottom of them. How high is your layout?


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

They do make some noise, especially running two. I also plan on putting down cork. The table is 36". I used 1/2" plywood for the top.

Gary


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Looks good Gary, you're getting there. It should be lots of fun operating.


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## AFnew2 (Aug 28, 2016)

*layout dimensions*

What size is your layout if I may ask?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Gary, as far as the cork, here is what I may do. Cork will be from Midwest Cork. I am
going to buy a case of HO roadbed and a case of O roadbed. They don't seem to make 
S roadbed. The cork is pretty much split down the middle to make it easier to do curves.
I have already checked and the HO and the O are the same thickness. So my roadbed will be a half strip of HO next to a half strip of O. That should be about right. I think I will give
it a light coat of black spray can just to make it not look like cork. I don't want to bother with ballast.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

AFnew2 said:


> What size is your layout if I may ask?


I put two tables together, one a 4x8 and the other 6x8. The table with the controls is the 6x8. It is 12' along the back with the tables together.

Gary


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

mopac said:


> Gary, as far as the cork, here is what I may do. Cork will be from Midwest Cork. I am
> going to buy a case of HO roadbed and a case of O roadbed. They don't seem to make
> S roadbed. The cork is pretty much split down the middle to make it easier to do curves.
> I have already checked and the HO and the O are the same thickness. So my roadbed will be a half strip of HO next to a half strip of O. That should be about right. I think I will give
> it a light coat of black spray can just to make it not look like cork. I don't want to bother with ballast.


I was going to buy some sort of bulk cork Matt and cut it. I'll have to look into the Midwest cork,sounds like it will cut down on time.

Gary


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The outsides of the roadbed will be angled also. More like real roadbed. 

It can be secured to layout surface with latex calk. A very thin layer of calk and sit some can goods on top for 24 hours. It can be took up with a putty knife. And reused.

Approx. price is 25 to 27.00 per case. 25 pieces, 3 foot long, per case. So 75 feet of it per case. I don't
know how much sheets of cork would be. The Midwest cork would be cut better than you could do.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I think the Midwest cork is 3/16" thick.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

That is sounding better. I don't think the bulk cork will be much cheaper. I also like your idea of painting it. Thanks for the tips.

Gary


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## AFnew2 (Aug 28, 2016)

*size*

Looks good...thanks for the reply:smilie_daumenpos:


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