# Ed's Lionel # 263 E and 263 WX.



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

*The Lionel 263W Tender, hooked to the 263E Locomotive.*









First I will see if I can make this whistle on the tender blow. It grumbles and blows a little sometimes but it needs work.










First you take off the 2 screws underneath (red arrows) that hold in the tenders front bulkhead with the doors.
(Bulkhead in the second picture.)

This is a first for me working on this type of whistle and I can't find any diagrams on what to do so I just winged it.
Not hard at all.



















There are also supposed to be 2 more screws (red arrows) holding the bulkhead to the shell on the bottom sides, mine had none here. But it was secured to the frame pretty solid, they are really not needed. But I will see if I can find some for it.
Someone had this apart before, which is not unusual for an 80 year old train I guess. But I wonder why they did not put the screws back in? 
My guess is it is because of where they are it is a pain in the you know what to screw out and screw back in? I probably could have slid the shell off without taking the bulkhead off with the screws missing. 
The person I got these off of inherited them, so the person who had them might have left them off for future easy access? That might explain why they are not attached.
But whoever took it apart did not fix the whistles problem either. 













These 2 screws hold on the whole whistle assembly. *Do not remove them, there is no need tnce you have her apart if you take those 2 screws off, then the only thing holding the whistle on are the wires that go to the pickup rollers.*











After you take out the 4 screws you simply slide the shell off of the frame. Slide it off towards the rear.Notice the little ding above the lettering, there is another to the rear of that. It almost looks like there used to be a bubble in the paint and it broke? Maybe this is a factory imperfection? I will see what I can do about this. 
Note, The L is held on by tabs, I don't know if they sell replacements? I do know that you can buy stick on decals, but I am going to leave them as is.
Edit, note the tab on the body there are supposed to be 4 (or 6?) I will have to look again. There is only one left on this.




















Here is the whistle, both sides.

To be continued. Later, what the whistle investigation reveled in my next post.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Lionel WS-37 "Banana" whistle*

Ed, Here is a link to Olsens, showing your whistle from the 263W. The brushes are the 1661E-29 which are pretty commonly used.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/b123\001254.pdf

I expect it cleaned, lubed and working by the end of the day..........ha ha!:laugh::laugh:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

teledoc said:


> Ed, Here is a link to Olsens, showing your whistle from the 263W. The brushes are the 1661E-29 which are pretty commonly used.
> 
> http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/b123\001254.pdf
> 
> I expect it cleaned, lubed and working by the end of the day..........ha ha!:laugh::laugh:



Thanks I did find that but it doesn't tell much about the operation and fixes for it, not like explained in the post war repair manuals.
Yep, those are the brush numbers and spring numbers, I could have bought them off Jeff but I found a lot of 20 brushes and 26 springs cheaper, they are on their way.
Like you said these are use in a bunch of different Lionel's, that is why I picked up the lot.

What I found.









I found that the whistle relay contacts (red arrow) were not touching when power was applied to the relay (Orange arrow). I gently bent them a little so they make proper contact when the relay is energized. Both the relay and contacts need cleaning. It made the whistle blow but the motor still was not running correctly. I took the 3 screws holding the brush plate on to look at the brushes.









The red arrow is pointing to what seems to be an oil reservoir. But if you turn the tender upside down after you fill it, it looks like it would all flow out? Maybe there was some kind of wick (like a piece of cotton) that you stuffed in there after you filled it?











After I took off the 3 brush plate screws off that hold on the brush plate, this is what I found. These are the brushes and springs, you can see the one spring is bent and the one brush is chewed up. I don't know how the motor even turned.









I then removed the 4 screws that hold on the blower cover, inside is the impeller that produces the air for the whistle. You can then pull the armature out for easy cleaning.
















This is where I am at now. I will start cleaning them up.
While I am in there I blew out the the part that makes the whistle sound, whatever it is called to the left of the blower cover. There looks to be no easy way to get this open and I don't want to try. 
A good blast of air should be fine as there might be a few spider webs or dust up in there.

I don't think I have any wasps up there like this one,  http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=11948

Hmmm, I still have to finish up that one?hwell:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Looks pretty straight forward for overall cleaning, lubing, & oiling. The air chamber itself is held in with what I would call "knurled rivets", for the sake of description. I had a total junk WS-75, metal that I took the back off that had those fasteners. The plate will have a paper gasket to seal it to the body of the whistle. If you can get away with not having to remove it, I wouldn't. It may not seal good enough. Blast of air, and maybe use a pipe cleaner.

Here is what the "rivets" look like. Checked the repair manual, and they are called drive studs, WS-93 (copper); WS-103 (iron)....


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes that is what I did.
Edit, I see that you added pictures, yes I am not going to screw around with those, no need too.

A nice thing about working on this one is that that wires to the rollers are attached by screws on the rollers. No soldering.:thumbsup:
You can pop the trucks off easily. 
It doesn't matter where which truck goes back on. They are both the same. They are held on by locking washers (don't know what they are called:dunno but they are not like a horseshoe clip.
The couplers and draw-bar are held on by tabs. I do not need to remove them I will clean them in place. No sense disturbing the tabs.

Back to cleaning.










Edit, note; 
Whatever you call that lock washer that holds the trucks on, *GET RID OF IT THROW IT AWAY!* I got one back on and fooled with the other for 15 mins!

Use a horseshoe lock washer instead, a 480-18 works fine. :thumbsup:

I guess back when this was built they did not think of the horseshoe lock washers yet?:dunno:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

You are going to wind up with a "PERFECTO!!" 263E & 263W. For the most part, everything that Paul has sold has been minimal maintenance. I just bought another loco from him, and it should be here tomorrow's mail. A 1625 switcher that looks like it doesn't need anything more than a good cleaning.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

HUH, HUH, YOU DONE YET, YOU DONE YET, HUH HUH??????


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

teledoc said:


> HUH, HUH, YOU DONE YET, YOU DONE YET, HUH HUH??????


See above edit!!!! In my last post.

I had to eat, I got it back together so far as the trucks and frame goes.
Waiting for the brushes now.

And the beat goes on/and the beat goes on........


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Looks good so far, and I agree about getting bulk order on brushes from eBay, just decide how many you think you need and hit the mouse button. I have to do the same, as my supply is running low.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

teledoc said:


> Looks good so far, and I agree about getting bulk order on brushes from eBay, just decide how many you think you need and hit the mouse button. I have to do the same, as my supply is running low.



*HELP!*
Well I got the brushes the other day while I was in the process of cleaning my den. 
I ordered 20 and got 22, brushes and springs good deal. The guy says he always adds a couple more.:thumbsup:
I put a hold on my cleaning to put them in.
I installed them and put power to it and she blew pretty good. The motor ran good too.
I had to manually push up the contact because from cleaning the contacts I bent them back out of shape, no big deal just bend it back up a little.

I did and hit the whistle button this time the motor ran but sounded noisy. Almost like the impeller was scraping the housing. But it is not scraping. 
I hit the whistle button a couple of times and the more she blew the louder the motor got. 
I took it back apart everything looked good but it looked like to me the reason for the noise is that the brushes are pushing on the commutator too much? Is this possible?
It looked to me like the brushes were scraping the commutator? 
The brushes and springs look just like the one good one I have left, though the old one looks like a copper brush and these are grey in color. Don't know what they are made of or if it even matters. 

I re installed and tried again and the armature did not want to turn like something was holding it up. I took a screw driver and gave it a little help and it ran and blew. I released the button and tried again and it would not move! I fiddled around another 10 mins, then stopped.

I went back up to finish cleaning my den!

I don't think the armature axle that goes into the bearings are supposed to have a washer/spacer of some kind, is there one? Anyone ever hear of such a spacer there?
Someone else had this apart before maybe they lost something?
I wish there was prewar manual for these tin plate. At least I could look at some pictures and maybe see something missing.

I tried every cuss word I know, the only thing I did not try was my big hammer!

I might go back down now and try some more, maybe it fixed it self.
Then again maybe I will wait till tomorrow.
Any suggestions?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed could it be possible you tightened the screws too much? I would try to squish the springs a bit or cut a bit off of them to take the tension off of the brushes. The brushes do have the reveal around them so the spring fits on them , right. Like the ones you pulled out. Maybe it's not cut at the same depth? You got extra screws so it's worth a try.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Ed could it be possible you tightened the screws too much? I would try to squish the springs a bit or cut a bit off of them to take the tension off of the brushes. The brushes do have the reveal around them so the spring fits on them , right. Like the ones you pulled out. Maybe it's not cut at the same depth? You got extra screws so it's worth a try.


First thing I tried was loosening up the brush plate, it did not help. I never crank down hard when tightening things, I learned that a long time ago by breaking things.
Yes the brushes are a shouldered brush and I slipped the springs over them. The springs move freely.
The brushes and springs look to be just like the original, the only thing different is the color the new ones are gray in color and the old ones looked to be copper.
It ran like a mother when I manually held the contact arm.
I then re adjusted the arm it and still ran good.
Then as I was testing it on and off on and off with the whistle button it started making the scraping sound and then it did not want to run. 
They only wear I see is from the brushes on the commutator. I know some is normal. 

I am going to fool around with it tomorrow, it almost sounded like the whistle's impeller was scraping but that was not the cause either. I don't think.:dunno:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Ed, I went back to the Olsen PDF and just noticed WS-7 BEARING and not sure if you noticed it. Did you have a bearing when you dis-assembled the whistle. I tried doing a quick search for that number, but didn't find one listed with just a Google search. It may require searching the individual parts dealers, to see if any of them have it. Of course there may be a suitable replacement bearing, from a newer whistle. Just a thought.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That should be up in the brush plate side right?

What are your thoughts on the different brush material?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I seriously doubt it. I would think the other end of the armature. If you think along the idea of the WS-75/WS-85 metal whistles, they have the bearing on opposite end from the brush plate. I know NOT all have a bearing, but that may be part of the problem, if the bearing is MIA!

I need to do some more searching for WS-37, WS-38, & WS-19 whistles, which seem to be some of the numbers associated with the "Banana style" whistles. Something has to show up somewhere!!

We need a Time Machine, desperately ............LOL


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Thanks, post any documents or diagrams you happen to come across if you can. For that style whistle.

I fooled around in my garage today straightening up. An ongoing battle.
Got my old Snow bird blower ready for snow, it is a classic. Fired up my craftsman and put a new belt on.
The old one was was still good but a little stretched, I had the new one for a few years now and figured I would replace it and keep the old one for an emergency fix.

Not bad for belt use, my blower is from around 2000. It has blown a lot of snow and I am not easy on it. I broke my first sheer pin last year trying to clear some ice packed snow, but I really think it broke just from 15 years of blowing, from fatigue.

I am going to go down and fiddle with it in a few minutes.
Thanks for any help you can find, I appreciate it.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Will do, this kind of stuff drives me nuts, due to lack of diagrams, or any paperwork!!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Ed, I am literally striking out on finding out anything of usefulness with these Prewar Banana whistles. Best I can come up with, knowing that from the diagram on Olsen's, is that there should be a ball bearing, as part of the whistle assembly. The part listed as WS-7 is apparently the bearing itself, that a "ball" sits into. The best number I have found that sounds like it is a suitable replacement would be Part# WS-106, ball bearing. Is there anything inside the impeller part of the whistle that looks like the round bearing, where the ball would have rode in? I did find an old post from "O gauge Hobbyist forum" talking about rebuilding a 385W whistle, which used the same "Banana" whistle, but no mention of a ball bearing. The WS-37 whistle was used in the 250W, 263W, & 752W tenders; the WS-38 was used in the 385W, 392W, 400W, & 1835W tenders. The mentioned WS-19 isn't the same design, and looks like the more recent WS-75/85 style, so that doesn't help.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed, now that im really thinking about you problem, I dont have good news. I think its shot. Send the lot over to me , ill give you like 50$ that might even be too much


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

sjm, Aren't you such a nice guy to hit a guy while he's down.....is the offer 50 dollars, or 50 cents??????????? LOL


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Dang ed, I cant see anything wrong after going through the pictures. There might have been a bearing, it would have to be small, the end of the whistle arm looks like it could have an indent in it to accept a bearing. Maybe, maybe not?!? How is te play in the shaft? It doesn't look worn? Maybe a stiffer lube to hold it in place? Some lithium grease ? I cant see that helping much but who knows?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Ed, now that im really thinking about you problem, I dont have good news. I think its shot. Send the lot over to me , ill give you like 50$ that might even be too much


$50 bucks and your Jersey central 2341 and your 2344 and the 6220 and a few accessories that you have and include the 259e you wrecked. All that with free shipping and you can have it.



teledoc said:


> sjm, Aren't you such a nice guy to hit a guy while he's down.....is the offer 50 dollars, or 50 cents??????????? LOL


I am not down I have just begun to fight. 
It did run real nice after putting in the new brushes and springs, I am going to try a few things. Might even be the transformer somehow?
But I got a lot on my plate doing other things right now especially with the holidays coming up.
I do appreciate any help.
Just keep my problem in the back of your mind when your searching/researching tin plate.
Thanks


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

ED you have to see how the armature sits on the end bushing. Then see how the fan blades look. If they touch then a little ball bearing in the bushing will help with clearance or a washer.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> ED you have to see how the armature sits on the end bushing. Then see how the fan blades look. If they touch then a little ball bearing in the bushing will help with clearance or a washer.


I was thinking that too, 

This is from a hanging fan, the thing you pull.
If I find the right sized ball maybe that would work if that is what I am missing?









On my old 68 Triumph Bonneville when I was fixing the steering it need the ball bearings that were up in the fork tubes. They are separate balls up in there loose in the bearing retainer, when you take the forks off they all fall out. I think it is 18 for the top and 22 for the bottom. The guy who owned it before me lost some when he was trying to fix it. He put it back together missing some, you could feel grinding when you steered it.
I was going to order some from England at a ridicules price something like $35 bucks with out the shipping just for around 40 stainless steel balls! 
I was talking to a local bicycle shop owner who had a few Triumphs and he told me that as long as the ball size was correct stainless ball bearings from a bicycle would work. 
He gave me a bag of 50 for a buck, worked just fine.

I wonder if I need it, would something like this would work?
I do have some other pull chains somewhere that the balls are stainless.
I just pulled the fans chain for the picture, if it is the correct size that should work too?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The bearings for the bicycle might work. What is the diameter size of the armature shaft?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T Man I think they would be too big, don't know the size will have to check later.












In the picture above the bearing is in the whistle plate held on by that strip you see, the other side in the brush plate has no bearing, it just sits in the brush plate hole. 
The center round thing you see is the bearing head it is retained in that strip, don't ask me the correct way to remove it.
On the inside (I should have took a picture) where the armature axle fits into the bearing it swivels side to side. Sort of like a ball socket. 
I don't know the reason you would think the a tight fit where the axle goes would be better then one that moves? 

I could see if it is worn out on either side, brush plate or the bearing side, the axle would become sloppy causing the armature to flop around. That would cause the armature to hit the motor field. But that is not the case here.
If you look at the link that Teldoc posted from the Olsen's site that bearing is all one piece.











Above in this picture, Here is what I found.
I noticed that the motor field jumped a little when I tried to apply the power. Just a hair it moved every time. I inserted a screw driver as shown and put a little lift on the motor field and it ran like a rocket :appl:.......till I let go then it hung up. It whistled pretty good too.











In this picture above, I then took it back apart for the 100th time and got my small punch and punched what ever you would call these. (red arrows) The other side of these looked like they had been punched at the factory? So I punched them but on the other side. 
They don't look like a rivet. And don't look like a screw. There is no part to it where you could fit a Allen wrench or screw driver or anything else to tighten it up. 
So I guess it is some kind of rivet?
WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST USE A SCREW!:dunno:

I gently gave them a punch and it did tighten up. I put it back together and applied power on and off a bunch of times. It was working but still a little noisy. Then it started doing the same thing.
So I took it apart again and punch it a little harder.
That worked...............but now I have no whistle sound.:goofball:


I gave up for now, I had enough aggravation for now. 
I have got to fool with it some more. 
At least it is running now, the motor field being a little loose moved a hair when the power was put to it causing the armature to hit the motor field.
Time to eat.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Thanks for the move T Man.:thumbsup:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I don't know the reason you would think the a tight fit where the axle goes would be better then one that moves
So it doesn't wobble ed.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> I don't know the reason you would think the a tight fit where the axle goes would be better then one that moves
> So it doesn't wobble ed.


Take an axle on your pickup truck, it is built like the second picture, is it set up on a ball joint in the back so it moves around like a ball socket? 
The axle needs some kind of bearing but it doesn't need a wobbling bearing?:dunno:

The whistle bearing is a bearing sort of like this,













This would be better, there is no side to side play.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Does your train shaft look like any of those ed? Its a shaft in a hole I figured with the age the whole could have worn bigger or the shaft could have worn down a bit. This would cause the shaft to wobble. I thought a tighter fit might help. The fit on newer stuff is tight. But the bearings and such do were down. They also pack them with grease too. Actually , I was thinking how is the other side of the shaft attached? Could it be moving? Or shifted? When you applied leverage it turned free. What was binding?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Does your train shaft look like any of those ed? Its a shaft in a hole I figured with the age the whole could have worn bigger or the shaft could have worn down a bit. This would cause the shaft to wobble. I thought a tighter fit might help. The fit on newer stuff is tight. But the bearings and such do were down. They also pack them with grease too. Actually , I was thinking how is the other side of the shaft attached? Could it be moving? Or shifted? When you applied leverage it turned free. What was binding?


See the first picture above?

The bearing that is the whistle housing, the axle sticks into a hole in the bearing.
The bearing swivels sort of like the one above. I can't find a picture to show you, I can't even find any info. It is *sort *of like the first one pictured.
*From the factory.*
*It is not worn it is built that way*, it is built to move around sort like the ball socket I pictured, that is what I am saying.

I will try to take a picture showing it, if I can then you will see what I mean.
Hold on a few minutes.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

So its built to wobble. Well back then they greased everything oil will make it wobble more as oil will cut the friction down. So, pack it with grease


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Could the other side of the shaft be moving, or could it have moved? Is it the bolt thing in the middle of the metal plate? Is it like a carrage bolt?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

First picture, That bearing is* one piece* like a ball socket, it sits in the whistle housing and attaches to that strip you see.










On the other side it just then sits in the whistle plate firmly attached but with the ball socket on this side. You can see it is pointed down in this picture? 












I put a small screwdriver to show the movement but you have to look a the difference on the ball part. The screw driver is acting like the axle it moves up and down.
Kind of hard to show you. But it built that way from the factory, and it is not worn out, it was built to give a little, *just like a ball joint.*


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That was not the problem anyway, it was a loose motor field.
Explained above.:smokin:

I guess you have never seen a bearing like this on a Lionel?
Me neither.:smokin:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No, never. Weird.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I wasn't sure if it was the loose bolts or something else?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> No, never. Weird.


You see what I mean? It is kind of hard to explain and show.

It is a one piece bearing, that "carriage bolt you see" is the head it clamps into the strip. Or the strip is made to secure it. It sits in that clip tight.
It goes through the housing and sits firmly in that.
Then the part where you see my screwdriver is like a ball that moves not a lot but a little up and down.

You would think a normal bearing like you and I are used to seeing would have been better.
Then there would be no movement at all......unless it was worn out.

But my problem was the loose motor field, the armature was hitting it that was the scraping sound.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Weird how one side is fixed and the other isn't, wonder why they made it that way?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Ed, Kind of hard to follow, but is it working properly now, or still not right. If it isn't working correctly, then you need to order a WS-106 ball bearing to sit inside the bearing that you had the screwdriver in. The WS-106 is the only ball bearing that is available for the whistles, and if I'm correct, they are only $0.25 each and I think that is from Jeff Kane. A lot of the problems with some of the numbers mentioned are old numbers from Prewar stock, versus newer replacement numbers for today's numbers. Looking back to Olsens paperwork it shows an old part number WS-28 "ball for the bearing", but a new equivalent would be the newer number WS-106. They are really small ball bearings.

So, is it working right, or still not working the way you want?????


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Sort of. Yes and no. 

Post 26 explains what it was,

It was a *loose motor field*, the thing that the armature turns in.
I Put the screwdriver in an put a little upward pressure on the motor field and it ran like a rocket.
I had to punch whatever you call the things in the picture. (Post 26.)to tighten it.

I did, then turned it on and off around 20 times and it worked, but then stopped again and started scraping.
I re punched those things (post 26 picture) a second time again, punched them harder, now it runs but the whistle doesn't blow.

I quit to eat and type.

You can move the impeller on the axle towards one side or the other, I think I will push it up towards the armature, I have it more towards the plate right now, I think that may be why it doesn't make the whistle sound.

Kind of hard to explain and show in the pictures.
Post 26, explains it with the pictures.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Unless it is inside the bearing and I can't see it there is no little ball inside the bearing.
WS-106/ WS-28 ball bearing, thanks I will check that out.

25 cents and $6 to ship.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Okay, I got it now, but it still needs some fine tuning to get the armature to run centered, and not scrape. I just let you know that the ball bearing is available, but yes it would be crazy to just order that alone. I was thinking along the lines of finding who else would have it, and if you needed other parts, you could include that in a bigger order. I know how tough it is to find good diagrams, complete parts lists, and specific information on at least 90% of this Prewar stuff. Even if you could find old manuals, the cost is astronomical to purchase these items, and how often would you be likely to use it. The sad part is that the information is actually out there, but just not available for public view. How many old hobby shops with repair centers have closed, who may have had some of this type of material, that more than likely got tossed out.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Banana whistle info from Olsens*

Ed, I was doing some searching for info on something unrelated to the whistle on Olsen's Library, and found this tidbit. It doesn't go into detail of the breakdown with parts. Check these out:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/1942/a126.pdf

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/1942/a124.pdf

In the second attachment a few paragraphs down, it explains that parts are obsolete and no longer available, and it gives a replacement whistle number. Thought it was interesting enough to let you know what you are up against. Do you keep it original, or do you retrofit it with newer one......that's the question. There a total of 9 pages of info with just whistles, that are worth the read. Go to Olsen's Library, Click on Lionel Prewar Bulletins, then click on Remote Control Whistle, and read the pages. 

In one paragraph, it mentions the bearing being on the brush plate side. So that would indicate where the bearing went. Really good info.:smilie_daumenpos:

Jerry


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

teledoc said:


> Ed, I was doing some searching for info on something unrelated to the whistle on Olsen's Library, and found this tidbit. It doesn't go into detail of the breakdown with parts. Check these out:
> 
> http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/1942/a126.pdf
> 
> ...


They said all this in 1939? That is the date on top of the paper.
Even the retrofits would be obsolete today. 

Thanks, I will check out the rest.

I don't think the ball bearing went on the brush plate side, I do think it went on the other side.


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## emmetd (Aug 1, 2012)

That old "banana whistle" is no longer available. Hard to find parts too.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

emmetd said:


> That old "banana whistle" is no longer available. Hard to find parts too.


You got that right. I wish I could jump in a time machine and go back and stock up on parts. The prices that they had back then are real cheap compared to what they go for in today's market. I think the whole whistle only went for $5 bucks back then.

I have the whistle running and blowing. While it runs good, the whistle is very a faint low whistle.
I put the shell back on before I took a BIG hammer to it! hwell: 
I then went to run it around with the locomotive.
The loco wouldn't switch directions. Both bulbs didn't light either. 
This has 2 light bulbs, 1 for the headlight and 1 red bulb under the cab which is supposed to simulate a glowing firebox. 

So out came the tools.

The e-unit only needed some contact cleaner sprayed on the plunger, it was sticking.
Works fine now and the motor runs good.

I can't get the bulbs to light, if I use my test light it lights the test light, but put the bulbs back in they don't light.
They have 18v bulbs, I tried numerous new bulbs I have and none light?

I have the shell off, maybe it needs to be mounted back on the frame for a ground?
I tried a jumper wire grounded on the shell but they still did not light. As the whole shell is painted I really didn't want to scratch some off to ground it.
Typing this and thinking, maybe I should have screwed in a screw to test the jumper?
Closed up shop for now, maybe I will try that tomorrow. 

Thoughts about the lights anyone?


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## MattR (Oct 30, 2015)

I agree it is ground related somehow. I don't have that loco, so can't look, but it's in the grounding.

Matt


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

MattR said:


> I agree it is ground related somehow. I don't have that loco, so can't look, but it's in the grounding.
> 
> Matt


Yep it was.....duh, don't know why I did not think of that when I was fooling around with it yesterday?
I put a jumper on the frame to the shell and the headlight lit up, the red firebox light was burnt out. I had some red 18v's in my parts box. 
I put it back together and it looks good with the red firebox light underneath.:thumbsup:

Now I have to find a pilot truck, Part # 263e-46! One of the wheels is toast the other side looks new. Strange, maybe someone replaced the one side at one time. If so I don't know why they did not replace the other side. The one is bent/cracked and jumps off the rail!
I can find the trailing truck Part # 263e-47, though I can't find the pilot truck.
Which is strange too as the trailing truck has red slotted wheels and the front are just ordinary looking wheels.:dunno:
The locomotive runs great, reverses well now.

Maybe these are used on another locomotive?

TELEDOC, do you have any literature on the front wheels? You home yet?
Maybe they were used on another locomotive?

I have a box of of wheels of all kinds and could not find a match.
I got close but the wheels hole is too large for the axle and the wheels on it are heavier then what I found in my box.


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## emmetd (Aug 1, 2012)

bought some flickering red leds. going to fix them so i can use them for firebox lights on my 263 and 226.
flickering firebox will look cool.


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## emmetd (Aug 1, 2012)

The bearing that is the whistle housing, the axle sticks into a hole in the bearing.
The bearing swivels sort of like the one above. I can't find a picture to show you, I can't even find any info. It is sort of like the first one pictured.
From the factory.
It is not worn it is built that way, it is built to move around sort like the ball socket I pictured, that is what I am saying.



it is called a self aligning bearing. much easier to "line" up than a fixed bearing.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

emmetd said:


> bought some flickering red leds. going to fix them so i can use them for firebox lights on my 263 and 226.
> flickering firebox will look cool.


They should have put the bulb facing the other way up and under the cab and drilled some holes in the cabs firebox.

Flickering red LED's will look good, you going to drill out some holes?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

emmetd said:


> The bearing that is the whistle housing, the axle sticks into a hole in the bearing.
> The bearing swivels sort of like the one above. I can't find a picture to show you, I can't even find any info. It is sort of like the first one pictured.
> From the factory.
> It is not worn it is built that way, it is built to move around sort like the ball socket I pictured, that is what I am saying.
> ...


Yes, post #34 here in this thread, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=715290&postcount=34

That is the bearing, I tried to show the movement you are explaining.


I need a Pilot wheel? 
I can find the trailing truck complete, but I can't find the front pilot truck anywhere?
Though all I need is one wheel for my truck.
Anyone?


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## 3windowc (Dec 31, 2012)

Get with Jeff Kane at Train Tender. He has lots of front & rear truck parts that he can match to or build up a complete truck. He does not always list the complete truck.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

All I need is a wheel, not the whole thing.

I find it strange that a lot of parts dealers list the trailing truck but not the pilot truck.
Jeff lists the trailing truck and not the other.
The trailing truck has slotted wheels the front has just ordinary plain wheels. You would think that it would be just the opposite, with the slotted wheels being hard to find.

Jeff is my first choice, but I got to find some more to add to an order, not just one wheel.


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