# Manners



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I give advice freely as best I can on here and do so because it helps others and I enjoy doing so, as do many others. But many times the person requesting the advice posts no thanks but continues with another question or goes quiet. I was brought to always say thank you when in receipt of something from another person but it seems no everybody was raised in the same way. Most are mature people on here and should know better. Thankfully it only happens in the minority of cases. Moan over.


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

Hey Cycleops, Yeah it can get under your skin at times...the way we were brought up and manners being one of them. Sometimes you get that one horse...that can't be rode!! Please and Thank You that's all it takes and most folks on the Forum adhere to that. :thumbsup:


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Thank you.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Thanks for pointing that out, Cyclops. A lot of times when we get advice, we rush off to try it and forget to acknowledge the giver of the info.

I will say, though, that a number of folks do give their thanks, and that's downright proper and manneristic (is that a word?) of them.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

I guess that after awhile you get accustom to the idea that others don't acknowledge what you have posted, and if you are not expecting a response, you're not disappointed when it doesn't happen, but you can be pleasantly surprised when it does. On another forum there is a "thanks" button on each post by another member so you can demonstrate that you have read and like the post. I believe it would be a nice addition and it has been suggested before.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I think the word is 'Mannerly' Fire21.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Cycleops said:


> I think the word is 'Mannerly' Fire21.


HAHAHA!! I thought and pondered for awhile, trying to come up with the right word. You nailed it! Thanks! 

:hah: Fire21


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Particularly annoying when you've spent time trying to help some one and they never get back with how they actually solved the problem!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Manners on the internet are certainly a lot different than face-to-face. I never expect a thank-you, but it's nice to at least see an acknowledgement that the poster read and considered what I wrote. It's especially irksome when someone reaches out for help, and appears to never even visit the thread or the board again... Why go to all the trouble of signing up for an account if you're just going to disappear again?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I have to agree with Lemonhawk and Shdwdrgn. Maybe it is a generational thing. I have noticed some individuals post a question on CTT, OGR and here on MTF, hoping to get an answer, and then as has been mentioned, they are never to be seen again. I myself don't mind researching things to get answers for people, if I don't know at that particular moment while reading a post. BUT at least have a little courtesy and acknowledge that your question was answered.

There are also the individuals that ask a question on a forum for an answer, or advice, when all they have to do is some research on their own, and are just downright LAZY to look for it. They want others to do the work for them. I don't expect any thank you's, but it makes your time worthwhile, when the cure is found, or the answer was what they needed.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lemonhawk said:


> Particularly annoying when you've spent time trying to help some one and they never get back with how they actually solved the problem!


Or they never get back at all. I have tried to help many new join on's here and they never come back period. They just post one post asking a question....that's it.:dunno:
Sometimes years later they will come back and ask another question. I have seen that before too, years later there are new members who will try to help. 
But my type stays silent if I remember the handle (name) it uses.
Then a quick profile check verifies the handle. 
Very rude if you ask me.




teledoc said:


> I have to agree with Lemonhawk and Shdwdrgn. Maybe it is a generational thing. I have noticed some individuals post a question on CTT, OGR and here on MTF, hoping to get an answer, and then as has been mentioned, they are never to be seen again. I myself don't mind researching things to get answers for people, if I don't know at that particular moment while reading a post. BUT at least have a little courtesy and acknowledge that your question was answered.
> 
> There are also the individuals that ask a question on a forum for an answer, or advice, when all they have to do is some research on their own, and are just downright LAZY to look for it. They want others to do the work for them. I don't expect any thank you's, but it makes your time worthwhile, when the cure is found, or the answer was what they needed.


I look at it this way doc, at least all the work you did to try and help might help someone in the future. That is where tagging comes in handy, so the info will show up in a search.
But even if you link the help in the future some never say anything one way or the other.
Makes you feel like not even wasting the time to try and help.hwell:

You know a few that I am talking about. We discussed this a little on the side. :smokin:


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

In case I forgot to tell anyone who has ever helped or encouraged me: Thank You!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

most are good .. and welcome the help, some probably just forget to say thanks .. and a very small few ... well ... they are not the majority, lol


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*manners*

Hi,all.I agree with WCGA. It is easy to forget in the heat of the moments.I`ve forgot things all my life. That being said,pardon me if I forgot to say thanks to anyone That has helped me.If I help anyone here and anywhere else I have never expected thanks and/or highlighted for doing good.

We sounds like politics now. Don`t forget:vote for Trump and Hillary tomorrow.

Isn`t life great or what.enjoy it while you can,sanepilot:laugh:


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

sanepilot said:


> We sounds like politics now. Don`t forget:vote for Trump and Hillary tomorrow.


Is there an option to vote them off the planet?


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*manners*

hwell: I thought[that hurts] that if we was going to talk about foolishness it might as well be some foolishness. i thought I was on facebook instead of MTF. There is a place to talk about this stuff[union station on MTF] and I can`t see the relation to trains and manners.
If I was going to judge manners,I`d go look in a mirror and start there first.



Everybody have a good rest of the week,I hope.Sanepilot[my opionion and I`m sticking to it]


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Is there an option to vote them off the planet?


I think there would be plenty of contributors to buy both of them a one-way ticket on the first colony ship to a distant star. I was going to say Mars, but that's too close.


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

I think Emily post needs to be required reading for grade levels, until the kids can actually grasp it. I'm constantly on my boys about their elbows on the table, and they always how is that rude? I tell em to google, and then threaten them with finishing school:laugh:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

milehighxr said:


> I think Emily post needs to be required reading for grade levels, until the kids can actually grasp it. I'm constantly on my boys about their elbows on the table, and they always how is that rude? I tell em to google, and then threaten them with finishing school:laugh:


Take a video of them eating while leaning on their hands and let them see how it looks. If you want to be taken for an ignorant slob, the best way is to look the part.

My beef is with teenagers' use of the word "sorry", as in "shut up and get out of my face", not "I regret have accidentally caused a problem for you".

Really, though, it's all about "me first" these days, and it's not just the young folks....


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## Zug (May 4, 2012)

I've always felt I need to put a "thanks" on the post asking questions, and I tend to feel obligated to respond to replies.. except for ones that are totally irreverent.. 
Although if if a thread starts to run on and on, then I tend to let it go so it can die off. Often I see thread where people will keep answering the original post and not see it was already answered, which can be a challenge when it becomes a multi page thread...


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*You said it Cycleops*



Cycleops said:


> I give advice freely as best I can on here and do so because it helps others and I enjoy doing so, as do many others. But many times the person requesting the advice posts no thanks but continues with another question or goes quiet. I was brought to always say thank you when in receipt of something from another person but it seems no everybody was raised in the same way. Most are mature people on here and should know better. Thankfully it only happens in the minority of cases. Moan over.


Cycleops;

You are quite right. If someone calls in for help, the least they should do is say thanks.
Some folks actually gripe that the advice you gave them is something they already knew(so how dare you tell them that!) As we are working "blind", often with only a minimal, vague, description of their problem; I'm not sure how we are supposed to magically divine what their thinking of, and what they already know.
Fortunately, it is, as you say, only a few. I like getting asked to help, do what I can, and appreciate thanks. It would be nice if everyone could bother to reply.

Regards;

Traction Fan


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

For what it's worth, that can go both ways. There's been many times where I've posted a question, laid out all my troubleshooting, given enough detail that it should be apparent I know what I'm talking about, and then some holier-than-thou mod pops in with the equivalent of "did you try unplugging it?" After spending so much time composing my initial question with all the details, it is really hard not to get snarky... "Did you not read my question? I mentioned doing exactly that in the second sentence!"

A recent case in point: I'm trying to find a replacement recipe binder for my mom, so I emailed the company that used to make them, calling out the part number for the replacement sheets (which they also no longer sell) in the subject line because that was all I had. Then in the first sentence I specifically stated I am NOT looking for the filler sheets, but rather the binder which they go in, and went on to mention that I know they don't sell either the original binder or those filler sheets any longer and asked if they still sold any binders which fit this sheet size, or if they had any information on the ring spacing and/or other manufacturers who might also sell binders of that size. Can you guess what I got back for a reply? "Sorry, we no longer sell those filler sheets." Well gee, really???

The point is, sometimes people give what they feel is the correct information for their question, and if someone is truly making an effort, it is our job to guide them to asking the right questions or providing the right answers so we can actually help. And yeah, some people get really rude with their expectations, thinking we are just supposed to know what they're talking about. In those cases, I've even been known to list out half a dozen things that exactly fit the criteria the poster provided and tell them once again that we can't help them if they're not willing to answer our "stupid" questions.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I don't remember on which forum this happened to me. 
I had asked a question, received a good answer and posted a thank you.
The next post was that I was wasting space by posting thank you.
So I posted thank you and never went back. 
Besides all of what has already been said there may be more like the 
one that ran me off. I really think it is just bad manners. Manners are 
not taught anymore anywhere. How many of us go into a restaurant
and eat with our baseball caps on? Do you take off your hat in a 
building? You see this and many other forms of rudeness quite often
so why should anyone say thank you?hwell:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Your right*



Shdwdrgn said:


> For what it's worth, that can go both ways. There's been many times where I've posted a question, laid out all my troubleshooting, given enough detail that it should be apparent I know what I'm talking about, and then some holier-than-thou mod pops in with the equivalent of "did you try unplugging it?" After spending so much time composing my initial question with all the details, it is really hard not to get snarky... "Did you not read my question? I mentioned doing exactly that in the second sentence!"
> 
> A recent case in point: I'm trying to find a replacement recipe binder for my mom, so I emailed the company that used to make them, calling out the part number for the replacement sheets (which they also no longer sell) in the subject line because that was all I had. Then in the first sentence I specifically stated I am NOT looking for the filler sheets, but rather the binder which they go in, and went on to mention that I know they don't sell either the original binder or those filler sheets any longer and asked if they still sold any binders which fit this sheet size, or if they had any information on the ring spacing and/or other manufacturers who might also sell binders of that size. Can you guess what I got back for a reply? "Sorry, we no longer sell those filler sheets." Well gee, really???
> 
> The point is, sometimes people give what they feel is the correct information for their question, and if someone is truly making an effort, it is our job to guide them to asking the right questions or providing the right answers so we can actually help. And yeah, some people get really rude with their expectations, thinking we are just supposed to know what they're talking about. In those cases, I've even been known to list out half a dozen things that exactly fit the criteria the poster provided and tell them once again that we can't help them if they're not willing to answer our "stupid" questions.


shdwdrgn;

You're right, of course, it does go both ways. One possibility with commercial help/sales sites, like those menu folks, is the "flow chart system". That may not be the most correct term, but I'm referring to those prepared lists of questions used by hired "help" trying to asses a problem, in a field in which they have no real training or experience, just a standard list of questions to ask. This is sort of like auto correct/spell check in a human body; or like the annoying "Clipy" saying,"It looks like you're typing a letter," etc. A sort of "artificial intelligence" that's more artificial than intelligent. 
Hopefully that doesn't happen too often on this forum, since it's made up of railroad hobbyists, trying to help other model railroaders. I will admit to giving advice without enough attention to the original question, on occasion. I've also unwittingly given incorrect advice, here and there, but I try to go back and say I'm sorry for leading the O.P. astray. We all do what we can. When I've been the one asking for help, I thank the kind folks who try to help.

Traction Fan


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Maners & customs*



rogruth said:


> I don't remember on which forum this happened to me.
> I had asked a question, received a good answer and posted a thank you.
> The next post was that I was wasting space by posting thank you.
> So I posted thank you and never went back.
> ...


 rogruth;

Customs change with the times. Few men walk on the street side of a sidewalk to protect the lady from the horses anymore. Some modern women are offended if a man opens a door for them thinking that it demeans their ability to do it themselves. I suspect the hats off inside, or while eating may have gone the same way.
Thanks, however, shouldn't go out of style. I'm not saying it hasn't, but simply that it shouldn't. If someone goes to some effort to help you, you should feel that you owe him a thank you. Again, I know everyone doesn't, but I, for one, think we ought to. I'm not going to curdle up and die because some poster never says thanks, but I still feel he should have.
As for your unfortunate experience with the "wasting space" jerk, I would file that in the same category as those individuals who chastised Model Railroader Magazine for "wasting space" on scales, or eras, other than their own preferred one. Nut jobs, to be ignored.  Nice touch, by the way, shoving another "thank You" in his face as you departed forevermore. He deserved it! 

regards;

Traction Fan


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

We were talking about manners which do not seem to exist anymore except with some older folks [like me]. Probably shouldn't open doors for females or give them your seat either.
Customs change and you may be told that those acts are improper.


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

Interesting topic since I was just talking about this with a colleague of mine. IMHO I don't think this is a problem with the younger generation as a whole but with people in our society who care more about themselves than others. I think there are times where we might be busy and forget to thank someone but then there are people who just don't care and it's all about them. 

I have co-workers who have asked for help and I've gone out of my way to help them out (hours of work) and never received a thank you. Guess what, I'm not helping that person again. I have other co-workers who I always help because they are always offering to help others or myself. Kindness is a two-way street.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

BROB,

In my case anything under 50 is a younger generation.


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

rogruth said:


> BROB,
> 
> In my case anything under 50 is a younger generation.


Funny. I'm 35 with a 2 year old who says thank you when he gives you something or when you give him something... I hope that stays with him for life but I'm also sure a lot of things will change over the years.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

rogruth said:


> Probably shouldn't open doors for females or give them your seat either. Customs change and you may be told that those acts are improper.


Yeah that has certainly changed. If you try to hold the door for somebody these days, half of them will look at you funny. And for gods sake don't _smile_ towards strangers! That kind of behavior can get you reported to the police.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

brob2k1 said:


> Funny. I'm 35 with a 2 year old who says thank you when he gives you something or when you give him something... I hope that stays with him for life but I'm also sure a lot of things will change over the years.


You need to wait about ten years. One of my darling boys, who used to say thank you (or "djoo-djoo") all the time, now takes offense if you ask him to do anything, and orders people around like they are his slaves. And if you stick to your guns, they outgrow that, too.

Otherwise, things like holding doors is common decency. If someone takes offense at common courtesy or friendliness, that's their problem, not mine. One minor peeve I have though, is that the proper response to "Thank you" is "you're welcome" (acknowledging the gratitude). To say "sure", "no problem" etc., while it might seem ok, suggests that you wouldn't have done it if it HAD been a problem (although it does coincide more with the Romance usage "De rien" or "De nada", literally, "it's nothing"...).


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Even so it might be better than no response at all.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

thedoc said:


> I guess that after awhile you get accustom to the idea that others don't acknowledge what you have posted, and if you are not expecting a response, you're not disappointed when it doesn't happen, but you can be pleasantly surprised when it does. On another forum there is a "thanks" button on each post by another member so you can demonstrate that you have read and like the post. I believe it would be a nice addition and it has been suggested before.


I believe that the same idea applies to posting, what I believe is a good idea, and no-one acknowledges or seems to notice. It tends to make one leery of posting on a forum, if no-one cares or notices what you have posted.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

thedoc said:


> I believe that the same idea applies to posting, what I believe is a good idea, and no-one acknowledges or seems to notice. It tends to make one leery of posting on a forum, if no-one cares or notices what you have posted.


Fire21 ignores your post, just to be ornery! :laugh:


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

Fire21 said:


> Fire21 ignores your post, just to be ornery! :laugh:


Wait a minute, I thought I was the only one around here allowed to be ornery.


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

brob2k1 said:


> Funny. I'm 35 with a 2 year old who says thank you when he gives you something or when you give him something... I hope that stays with him for life but I'm also sure a lot of things will change over the years.


You are a lucky guy, brob2k1.
My son has two boys. One says please, thank you, asks politely for something. (He just turned 7)
He plays with the trains as if they were made of something that would disintegrate if handled roughly.
The other one (He is 5) screams if he wants something, screams to say thank you or please, stares at people in a restaraunt.
He is not allowed to even touch my trains. Three cars were halfway destroyed after the last time he "played" with them.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I got a thank you to a question about a Prewar 435 power station transformer. Of all places on OGR, and I responded with your welcome!


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## Harvey Kravitz (Feb 12, 2016)

I see that problems with other hobby forums. As you guys know, I am also into antique wind up phonographs. I would give advice on repairs, collecting and such. It seems to be that way with the internet. A lot of people get so caught up with instant information, that they forget manners in acknowledging the help someone has taken the time to help. Another pet peeve of mine is someone not signing thier real name after a comment. I guess us old school collectors/hobbiests still follow protocol.
Harvey Kravitz


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

Harvey Kravitz said:


> I see that problems with other hobby forums. As you guys know, I am also into antique wind up phonographs. I would give advice on repairs, collecting and such. It seems to be that way with the internet. A lot of people get so caught up with instant information, that they forget manners in acknowledging the help someone has taken the time to help. *Another pet peeve of mine is someone not signing thier real name after a comment.* I guess us old school collectors/hobbiests still follow protocol.
> Harvey Kravitz


There are 2 factors here, one is the anonymity that the internet affords people and some are unwilling to give that up. The other is self protection, on a public forum you don't know who might be reading the post and what their intentions may be. A criminal could easily locate someone, and if that person is posting about the things they have, it's an advertisement to someone who might want to take them.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

TheDoc has it right. I'm a programmer who writes lots and lots of software that millions of people use to socialize and collaborate with on a daily basis. I only use my own software anonymously and I am quite careful with my real information. In an online world like we are in I feel it is dangerous to be open with information. I learned that the hard way years ago. 

It has nothing to do with protocol for me. It's all about safety and information. I choose to be more private but I'll gladly sign my handle.

L0stS0ul


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## Harvey Kravitz (Feb 12, 2016)

I never really had that problem. I don't do social media or any of that stuff. I'm really not a computer person, either. I don't do online banking or these other applications. I don't have a smartphone, just a basic cell phone. For me a computer is for the basics. I turn it on, turn it off, look up things and maybe buy on Amazon, or ebay. I have it real simple and easy. To me, sending a post or an email is the same as writing a letter. where you sign your name. I guess I'm old school. Anyway, I know the feeling when you help someone out, and you don't get an acknowledgment or a thank you. that gets under my skin, also. Sorry about the rant.
Harvey Kravitz


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

It was mentioned about thieves studying social media to find targets. THIS forum is a form of social media! Now, how hard would it be to find Harvey Kravitz in Bremerton, WA? :stroke:


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this, I never knew it would generate such interest. I think its touched a nerve in a lot of people.

Interesting what Harvey says regarding him not being a computer person. If you've used it to buy from Amazon or eBay your details are already out there, quite apart from your activity on social media sites. Cyber criminals are looking for ever new ways to scam people.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Cycleops, since you mentioned scams, the latest is the Nigerian astronaut stranded in orbit by the Russians for 16 years. for just a few thousand, you can help get his bank account unlocked so they can use it to pay for the Russians to return him. Then you get a percentage of what's been accumulating in his bank account! Will it never end!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Without wishing to be racist the Nigerians seem to be able to do anything to get money. There was a case I read about not so long ago in which a Nigerian posed as a US colonel and went on a dating site, some poor woman in the UK fell for it and sent him tens of thousands of dollars. Unfortunately not a isolated incident.

There is a favourite one here where someone offers you 'cheap' gold. Ghana being a producer. Of course there is no gold but they get you to pay up front if they can. If not a meeting is set up and you are robbed. Surprisingly many people, mostly foreigners fall for it.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I wanna get some cheap gold.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Harvey Kravitz said:


> I see that problems with other hobby forums. As you guys know, I am also into antique wind up phonographs. I would give advice on repairs, collecting and such. It seems to be that way with the internet. A lot of people get so caught up with instant information, that they forget manners in acknowledging the help someone has taken the time to help. Another pet peeve of mine is someone not signing thier real name after a comment. I guess us old school collectors/hobbiests still follow protocol.
> Harvey Kravitz


Protocol.... I wouldn't call it protocol to sign your real name on an internet forum. The use of aliases / usernames is as old as the Internet.

I don't mind the anonymity, provided I have a way to privately communicate with the person (the PM), and the poster doesn't take advantage of the anonymity to be a troll or be rude and obnoxious.

(To make you happy) Ben

PS I live in a small. rural town, which is identified in my Avatar block. Even knowing my first name narrows it down to less than a dozen people. But that doesn't worry me too much.


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## Harvey Kravitz (Feb 12, 2016)

I didn't realize there would be such a stir on this thread. When I buy something online, I make sure the site is secure. I automatically delete unfamiliar emails, and such. If there is a breach, I am protected by the credit card and my banking institution. I just do the basics with computers, and that's about it. I never had a problem with hackers or the like. I guess the reason I wrote what I said is I'm old school. I always sign my name when I write correspondence. It is what I was always taught to do. I'm not going to hide under the sand because of a perceived fear. If something happens, I take action. Life is too short to worry about this. I guess when I signed my name and location is to see if there are other like-minded modelers and collectors to get together and have a bull session. That's my 2 cents worth.
Harvey Kravitz


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Not a stir, no. A respectful difference of opinion.

I'm not trying to be insulting here, but the world you're talking about doesn't exist in the nebulous world of the internet. Too many bad things can happen in the on-line world without you realizing it.

A year or more ago, Chinese spys stole all the security clearance data from the government's database (mine included). The government didn't find out about it for 3 months, and didn't notify the affected people for another 2-3 months after that. In that time, several people had their lives ruined.

A little care taken to protect ones identity is not an unnecessary or paranoid precaution. Although granted it can be taken to far.

The world changes, and we have to change along with it, or go the way of the dinosaurs and dodo birds.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

Harvey Kravitz said:


> I guess when I signed my name and location is to see if there are other like-minded modelers and collectors to get together and have a bull session. That's my 2 cents worth.
> Harvey Kravitz


Most sites that I have been on have a PM capability, and once you are comfortable with another poster, there is little difficulty in making connections for a face to face meeting. I believe that several members here are making arrangements to meet at the York meet this spring, I have given my location and hope that people stop by, as I am alone to watch my tables and have difficulty getting away from them. I can understand both the hesitancy to reveal your identity on a public forum and the desire to make connections. Cycleops's post should illustrate some of the dangers of being too open and trusting on the internet.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> I wanna get some cheap gold.


Me too, but I'm just being greedy.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Cycleops, I would like to think you're area holds the monopoly on scams, but alas I live in Florida, USA and not a week goes by without some elderly person losing their life savings to a scamer!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> Cycleops, I would like to think you're area holds the monopoly on scams, but alas I live in Florida, USA and not a week goes by without some elderly person losing their life savings to a scamer!


My elderly mother doesn't even get scammed (although I worry that she's a ripe target). She's just a very caring person, and can't say no to charities. She just doesn't realize that if she gives $100 each to 10 charities, she's just dropped a Grand.


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## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

I'm new at this forum stuff and have found it very helpful. But I've yet to learn all of the buttons. I too was taught manners and sometimes not sure how to reply ( not what to say). When I pose a question, and get several answers, do I just click the reply on the last person and do I use the reply section at the bottom of the page?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Use the empty box at the bottom of the page, then click 'post quick reply' to post. Press the 'advanced' button if you want to attach pics or YouTube. If you want to quote a post just click the quote button for it to appear in your post. Welcome to the forum.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*At this time,I'd like to thank everyone here at this forum*

:hah: thanks for any ideas and advice you have volunteered to
me. Most of the time, I probably do not give the opportunityfor
you to respond.:dunno:
regards,tr1
Pictures of the gg&n will be in the distant future! Thank you


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bloomfield Station said:


> I'm new at this forum stuff and have found it very helpful. But I've yet to learn all of the buttons. I too was taught manners and sometimes not sure how to reply ( not what to say). When I pose a question, and get several answers, do I just click the reply on the last person and do I use the reply section at the bottom of the page?


Well, if all you want to do is say "Thank you", then a generic "Thanks for the help, folks" works fine.

If you want additional clarification, it's usually best to quote the response. For multiple questions on the same response, you can copy the leading and trailing "quote=..." and "/quote" terms (with the brackets) multiple times to separate a longer response into sections. 

To respond to multiple comments from multiple users, you can use gyrations of cut and paste to get it into one, but no one will complain if you just post a couple of consecutive comments.

And this is purely a matter of practicality, not manners.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

When I have a post that will respond to more than
one poster I usually do it Like this:

Man A

That layout looks great...and so on.

Man B

No, you don't want to have DCC and DC on the
same layout at the same time.

Man C

I prefer Pedc Insulfrog turnouts.

Man D

CTvalley thinks MRC DCC systems are fantastic.

Don


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I would have to say it has to do with manners. I see a lot of posts from new members that will post a question and get 10 replies but never a response. I call these people Drive By Posters (DBP). I think if you post a question, you should follow it as there will be questions. Some may find their answer within the posts but it would be nice for them to state what they found as many readers may have the same issues. A simple thanks would be great.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

Bwells said:


> I see a lot of posts from new members that will post a question and get 10 replies but never a response. I call these people Drive By Posters (DBP).


i'm one of them.

in face to face conversations, i almost always thank people for there time at the end of the conversation.

but on a forum and with email, i'm reluctant to add a post or send an email that simply says thanks. I feel that it is wasteful of people's time to click, read, delete the email or add a reply that adds no value to the discussion.

at work, i almost always ask people if they have time to discuss something. While I appreciate responses on forums, I feel they are voluntary.

when i provide a response, i feel i'm injecting knowledge or perspective into the discussion that may be useful not only to the OP but others who are interested in the discussion. I feel the OP has no obligation to thank me, much less anyone else who may find the thread of interest.

do you think some people recognize that i don't thank people would not respond to a question i post? or would they realize that many others may be interested in their response and provide one?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

If you're saying that because the correspondence is electronic that you don't feel the need to acknowledge or thank people for their input I would say most people wouldn't agree. What will you do with the time you've saved from not reading and deleting an email? Maybe this has something to do with upbringing, I don't know but a lot of older contributors are' Programmed' this way. Perhaps younger people behave in a different way on forums.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> What will you do with the time you've saved from not reading and deleting an email?


it's not the time, it's the interruption in what I am doing (at work).

IBM did a study on how to improve software development productivity. The study suggested a 100 sq foot office with a door and a phone with a switch to disable the ringer. Distractions are a serious impediment to productivity.




Cycleops said:


> Maybe this has something to do with upbringing


As I said, in face-to-face conversations I 1) ask people if they can spare the time to talk and 2) almost always thank them for their time.

(think about what you just wrote regarding coutesy)



Cycleops said:


> If you're saying that because the correspondence is electronic that you don't feel the need to acknowledge or thank people for their input I would say most people wouldn't agree.


i would like to thank them, but I don't want to interrupt them. And I agree with you that most people feel they way you do.

I'd prefer not to be interrupted.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

gregc said:


> I'd prefer not to be interrupted.


But with E-Mails and other electronic communication, you choose when to look at it, so there is no interruption unless you choose to be interrupted.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I like this thread more than my amount of posting on it might indicate and really appreciate it from the beginning. Last Thurdsay night I ended my talk at the MTF dinner with some comments about "self respect" of the forum members and courtesy and politeness on it and how important that is to me. 

I completely agree and understand about the interruptions. Both at work, here at home in my study, and in my trainroom, I had interruptions - they kill productivity - all the ideas you are juggling in your mind fall to the floor and it can take 15 minutes to get them up and in sync again. 

I turn the ringers on my phones off, often shut down my cell phone, close the door, and just focus. Only way to get things done. 

That said, back to the original point of this thread. I always try to say thank you, and I do respond by helping those who do, too, more than those who just assume that if I am on the forum, I'm here for them, not the other way around.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

thedoc said:


> But with E-Mails and other electronic communication, you choose when to look at it, so there is no interruption unless you choose to be interrupted.


I hope you can understand my perspective


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cant believe I missed this! I couldn't agree more a thanks once in a while is nice I think what gets me more mad is when I post a lot of back and forth with someone, they fix whatever is broke, and someone with more knowledge then me makes one post with the same advice, and try get a thanks. So, thats it. They spent the time to say thanks but not to the guy thats been answering every asked question. Oh, well....such is life and I couldn't agree more about the fly by posters, sometimes I want to know what was Wong, for both the poster and to hone my troubleshooting skills.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

gregc said:


> I hope you can understand my perspective


I think we understand your ideas clearly enough, yes.

Communication, though, is all about perceptions. What you INTEND to communicate, and how you personally feel is much less important than what is received by your audience, whether it's one or many, whether it's face to face or through some medium (electronic or pen and paper).

What we are saying is that the prevalent PERCEPTION of the recipients, and the respondents, is that we would react much more favorably to the discussion if you did say "Thanks".

More importantly, though, too many of these posts involve a drive-by poster asking a question, too often with insufficient details, and then never return, either to clarify the original question or to identify the answer. This is a disservice to others who might turn to the thread for help, because it denies them what might turn out to be a critical piece of information for their own problem.

As I tell my boys, it costs you very little to say, "Please," "Thank you," "Excuse me," or "You're Welcome", or to smile at a passing stranger. And it just might improve their day.

So we hope you can understand OUR perception of YOUR perspective.


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## johnfl68 (Feb 1, 2015)

Thank you to all of those who try and help people on here in a friendly manner!

I see one member in particular is back with his SNARKY I am better than you I know EVERYTHING responses to people, and still hasn't learned his lesson.

It's unfortunate that people come here often looking for help or advise, only to get lectured on why one person thinks what they are trying to do is wrong, instead of trying to help understand what the OP is trying to do and help them work through it.

No one is perfect, but no reason to treat people like that.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am glad you guys do answer questions willingly. there was a time I was the only one so thank you for my time off. I can sit back and enjoy it more. 

I have learned perception can be distorted through media so I try not to take anything personal and avoid being agitated by remarks, A lot lot of times I let things roll and they turn out for the better.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

gregc said:


> I hope you can understand my perspective


I can, but I also understand that some kinds of communication can be ignored. It would depend on how the communication gets your attention, I don't keep my E-Mail account open all the time so I only know there is a message when I open it. With phone calls I can see who is calling and sometimes when the caller is unknown or with holds their identity I simply don't answer and they might leave a message. Those are the only 2 kinds of communications that I am familiar with and I include text messages with phone calls.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

On "the other forum" I went to a topic regarding someone's layout build, and a new member from Ukraine had posted just before I got on the topic. This was about a year or so ago, during the time Russia was actively involved militarily there. I welcomed him to the forum, and told him I was praying for peace and stability to return to his country. That's all I said.
The "owner" of the build thread went absolutely apoplectic! "Don't say that to him! You don't know what side of the conflict he's involved on! This is a model railroad forum! Blah, blah, blah, rant, rant, rant!"
I haven't clicked on that thread again, and as far as I'm concerned, he can just go "Explore HO" without me.
I still maintain my innocence.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

In my opinion, good manners would dictate that you express concern for his potential situation, which you did. Well done! :appl:


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I see a lot of drive-bys on IRC chat as well.

<User joins channel>
Hello?
<waits 10 seconds>
WHY WON'T ANYONE ANSWER MY QUESTION?!?!
<leaves channel>

Dude, really? You expect everyone to just be sitting around waiting to drop everything so they can answer that all-important question that you never even bothered to ask? And some people actually expect immediate responses on forums, getting impatient because nobody has read their first post in the past ten minutes.

The level of personal entitlement in the internet generation is staggering. Kids have grown up with instant-messaging and feel like they deserve instant-everything. I actually read a post a few years back where a girl was texting her boyfriend, got angry he didn't reply, went off the deep end with the name-calling and finally broke up with him, came back after an hour apologizing and hoping he would forgive her, then got angry and broke up all over again. The boyfriend's response the next morning was something like "I told you my phone was going to be off last night, but after seeing what kind of person you are I'm really glad you broke up with me..."

So yeah, I'm not surprised that there are a lot of first-time posters who never bother coming back. And the scary thing is that these kids are now going to college and entering the work place.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

One example, (look at the date)
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=80569

There are more?
Why?

I have let some sit like this for a month.....no reply at all, nothing and the poster had returned to the site.

Now after they sit for a while I now ask a mod (not tooter) to delete anything I answered. 

And it makes me feel like not to even wasting my time to try to help anymore.:dunno:


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

Big Ed said:


> Now after they sit for a while I now ask a mod (not tooter) to delete anything I answered.


wow!?


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

OK, how does this thread belong here and my thread about an online model train website was moved to the off-topic forum? As I see it, this thread definitely belongs over there, not mine!

I guess it's who you know, lol. For my .02 cents on the topic of this thread - some folks just don't know what manners are and I'm just learning that on this forum concerning one member which I will not mention.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Just mention my name you all got it out for me!


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

sjm9911 said:


> Just mention my name you all got it out for me!


Welcome to the club.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Shdwdrgn said:


> I see a lot of drive-bys on IRC chat as well.
> 
> <User joins channel>
> Hello?
> ...


What an insightful post. I think your comment really nails it!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> Just mention my name you all got it out for me!


Infamy,infamy, they've all got it in for me!


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I wouldn't be paranoid if everybody wasn't out to *get* me!:goofball:


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

This is mainly to Big Ed, but also to the ones that help out.

Please don't stop helping us newer guys. If it wasn't for you, T-man, John, a few others, I'd still be stuck in problems.
Yeah, there's gonna be jerks. I owned my own shop for 30 years. I met more than my share of jerks.
But there's a lot of decent guys out there. Ones that do appreciate a helping hand.
I know I sure appreciate it!

And yes.......a hit-and-run poster is one of the worst thing in forums. They take but don't give back. 
Even a little "thank you" in one post is better than silence.

Just my opinion, guys. But I'm sure that I'm not alone on my thinking.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gregc said:


> wow!?


Wow!?
What?


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*question about manners?*

Hi,all my question is "are you a shlump? One in a 1000 on this forum are. I recieved a pm from a mostly newer MTF person. Here is what he said about MTF. I`ve been called a lot of things but not this. So check this out and think about what you say from now on.









So far this week has been good to me,I hope everyone can say the same,Sanepilot

I`ll bet I don`t get any answer to this oneLOL


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Sanepilot, you made a good impression on him. Nice he took the time to commend you. It is nice to see nice people!


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*manners*

Hi,all...I gotta laugh,if I didn`t I`d cry. That was for the idiots on here.That one in a thousand was probably more like 5 or 6. They know who they are.You can tell a person generally by the way he talks,acts and so forth. Mostly what there parents have taught them,but there is always a exception. You know if I felt about someone like a few on this forum has publicly said,I would tell him personally to his face or email or pm, not go public with it. It`s easy to be miles away and publicly bad mouth a person. Are they man or woman to go face to face and speak up. I admire the poster that apologised for being wrong on here recently. Now,that is a man`s man. I`ve dealt with the public for 72 years,still do and Man,I`d go crazy if I didn`t meet a lot of good ones.This forum has been good for me,I have learned a lot. I`ll say this and I know it`ll will fall on blind eyes,Let`s try to be nice to each other and positive,not negatively.I`ll get off my soap box and go to bed. It`s been a good,have a good weekend coming up,Everett..be


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## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

I too was taught manners; in fact nuns beat us into submission. :lol_hitting:

I wonder if some aren't rude they just get busy and forget they asked a question Some like me aren't completly familiar with the forum yet. I have lots of computer experience but not forum conversation. 

I think I'm replying but still not sure.


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## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

I just read that this is how I reply properly. Thus please forgive this newby. 

I agree that this electronic world for those that were taught manners forget that the primary users of this non personal communication system such as email, texting, voice mail, auto attendant, facebook etc etc is actually causing acceptance of no reply or thank you's to become the norm.

Now back to the newby; I often see those of you discussing my question and I see the answer but I still don't know how to respond to the one actually responding to me directly.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Bloomfield Station said:


> I just read that this is how I reply properly. Thus please forgive this newby.
> 
> I agree that this electronic world for those that were taught manners forget that the primary users of this non personal communication system such as email, texting, voice mail, auto attendant, facebook etc etc is actually causing acceptance of no reply or thank you's to become the norm.
> 
> Now back to the newby; I often see those of you discussing my question and I see the answer but I still don't know how to respond to the one actually responding to me directly.


To get this use the blue quote button at the bottom right of the post you wish to reply to. 

Magic


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Magic said:


> To get this use the blue quote button at the bottom right of the post you wish to reply to.
> 
> Magic


But you can also just thank everybody and just naming the person(s) you think helped most. I often don't bother to quote their post - anyone reading the thread knows what they said and frankly, most times it is a series of several postings that finally brings together enough info to solve a problem, etc., and maybe several people posting and discussion who finally thrash it out.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What he said.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Agree with John and Lee.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

And of course John's last reply ended up at the top of a new page, so his big arrow isn't pointing at anything.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Shdwdrgn said:


> And of course John's last reply ended up at the top of a new page, so his big arrow isn't pointing at anything.


You have your forum defaults improperly configured.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Shdwdrgn said:


> And of course John's last reply ended up at the top of a new page, so his big arrow isn't pointing at anything.


I just changed my default to show 20 posts per page. That moves his arrow underneath Lee's post.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Is it just me, or does "no problem" tick you off too? 
Seems to come mostly from the younger crowd, but I've often wondered what they would say if it WAS a problem. :dunno:

Yeah, something like this......."OK, dude, now THAT'S a problem!
And, because it's a problem, I'm seriously considering a left cross to your jaw unless you bow down and apologize real quick"

Now we REALLY have a problem, right? :eyes:

Nope, no problem. Cowabunga.  

Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think you'll find that many people simply forget to acknowledge the help they receive, others are more thoughtful. I frequently get an email out of the blue thanking me for solving a problem that was long enough ago that I don't really remember the thread. It's nice to hear anyway. 

The ones that really tick me off are the ones that get angry when you point out their mistake! Gosh, you posted you had a problem, I pointed out how to fix it and why it was a problem, and you're mad at me????

Say what?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Shdwdrgn said:


> And of course John's last reply ended up at the top of a new page, so his big arrow isn't pointing at anything.


I know we've had this discussion before but doesn't this 'point up' the need for a 'like' button?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We have had that discussion before.  There's no "Like" button in vB 3.x software.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> We have had that discussion before.  There's no "Like" button in vB 3.x software.


Maybe you have the wrong software, I am on other forums that do have a "like" or a "thanks" button.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

raleets said:


> Is it just me, or does "no problem" tick you off too?
> Seems to come mostly from the younger crowd, but I've often wondered what they would say if it WAS a problem. :dunno:
> 
> Yeah, something like this......."OK, dude, now THAT'S a problem!
> ...


Yeah, that bothers me too.

Funny thing, though. In Spanish and French, it's the PROPER response.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

thedoc said:


> Maybe you have the wrong software, I am on other forums that do have a "like" or a "thanks" button.


It's not the wrong software, it's just that is a 3rd party add-on to vB.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

It's not too hard to type "Thanks" or "like".

I participate on several forums and they all seem to be a little
different from each other.hwell:


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

thedoc said:


> There are 2 factors here, one is the anonymity that the internet affords people and some are unwilling to give that up. The other is self protection, on a public forum you don't know who might be reading the post and what their intentions may be. A criminal could easily locate someone, and if that person is posting about the things they have, it's an advertisement to someone who might want to take them.


Doc.
Thanks for saying it for me. It sucks how the honest people have to protect there name, and privacy now days, from the no good people that don't obviously have a honest life of there own.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

I would just like to say, I have always thanked everyone for the advice they gave to me. It is the proper thing to do. If someone is nice enough to take there time to help you with a problem, then the least you can do is be thankful. I have asked for advice on this forum, about things that I still wouldn't know about to this day, if it wasn't for the people that helped me on this forum. for all of you, again THANK YOU...


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

thanks


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Deleted


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## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

Thanks guys


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I found this from a book I had as a boy called 'How to be Topp' by Geoffrey Willans. Might amuse you.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I love it! I wish I'd had that when I was a kid! :laugh::laugh::smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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