# Could use some help



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

So for the past couple of years I pretty much completed a layout. The layout was more for practice than anything serious or long term. I wanted to see just how terrible my scenery would be. I wasn't as worried about running trains so I had tight curves. I just had a small section left and probably would have had to buy more stuff for it to complete. Well life took a turn and I'm going to be out of work until probably after Thanksgiving due to some hernias. So I'm going to home bored as heck. So my thought was to tear down my old layout and start on a layout that can handle all my trains and won't look like just a bunch of track on a cpl pieces of plywood or foam. 
Hence arises my problem and what I've cone here for help on. I have tried scarm and I've tried any rail. I am not good with them since I'm always a visual person and always just set track and go from there to get what I want in the end. But I am wanting to have thus build be modular might be moving in a cpl years so ill be putting in connectors and such. I just could use some help planning. If someone could help me on the planning software part you would be my hero considering if it would be up to me on that end it would never go from program to building ..
I have a pretty big space to work on. My plan is to use peco turnouts with Atlas flextrack. I also have a bunch of atlas turnouts but really do not want them near the mainlines. 
I would like to be able to run my passenger and container cars so I'm thinking bear minimum 24" curves. 
I would like to have my atlas turntable and roundhouse if possible.

So if someone coukd help let me know.


Thanks


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Use a compass on drafting paper, and use a ruler, to draw out several possible plans. Then, mark off the borders of the modules you'd like to separate and to move. Use quick disconnect connectors between the modules for power. Use carriage bolts as alignment pins to hold the modules in alignment. Lay your roadbed across the joints, and sever them only once you must move for the first time. Remove the tracks, slice through the roadbed, disconnect the electrical, remove the carriage bolts, and you should be good to go. Any hard shell scenery that crosses those boundaries will also have to be severed, probably best with an old electric carving knife.

I don't know what 'a pretty big space to work on,' means. But the general wisdom in the hobby is to use the largest main-line curves you can afford in the space you have. For me, my least curvature on the entire railroad must be over 30" due to a Sunset Models HO scale Canadian Pacific 2-10-4 'Selkirk'. Your longer car passenger trains will run much better on such curves. This is especially true when you back them around curves if they have diaphragms. 

This is just my own personal opinion based on four layouts: 24" curves are not even the minimum for what Walther's used to state was the minimum for their 'heavyweight' passenger cars with diaphragms. They were wrong by at least four inches if you wanted to back four of them coupled around curves.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

While I agree with mesenteria that you COULD use graph paper and drafting tools, using a CAD system is much faster and more accurate. You can draw the dimensions of your room and save it as a file, then start from that every time you try a new plan (or start with one of your other designs and modify that). As long as you don't save OVER the old file, you won't lose that version.

Anyrail and SCARM are very similar, especially considering that SCARM is a home-grown, reverse-engineered version of Anyrail anyhow. I have been using Anyrail for years, and may be able to help you get your arms around it (you will certainly have lots of free time), but at the end of the day, neither it nor any other software is going to design a layout FOR you. You have to do that. You will have to decide what the module dimensions are, and build them yourself within the software. You will need to decide on minimum curve radii, etc (although the software will tell you if you violate your set minimums).


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> While I agree with mesenteria that you COULD use graph paper and drafting tools, using a CAD system is much faster and more accurate. You can draw the dimensions of your room and save it as a file, then start from that every time you try a new plan (or start with one of your other designs and modify that). As long as you don't save OVER the old file, you won't lose that version.
> 
> Anyrail and SCARM are very similar, especially considering that SCARM is a home-grown, reverse-engineered version of Anyrail anyhow. I have been using Anyrail for years, and may be able to help you get your arms around it (you will certainly have lots of free time), but at the end of the day, neither it nor any other software is going to design a layout FOR you. You have to do that. You will have to decide what the module dimensions are, and build them yourself within the software. You will need to decide on minimum curve radii, etc (although the software will tell you if you violate your set minimums).


Whenever I try to use these programs it's like my vision goes out the door lol. And trying to do elevation with them makes me want to pull my hair lol.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Like for instance im on anyrail right now trying to make a outline like ctv suggested. How do I know the length? I don't see any option for grids and no guage to know how long your line.


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## BobT (Mar 27, 2021)

Conductorkev said:


> Like for instance im on anyrail right now trying to make a outline like ctv suggested. How do I know the length? I don't see any option for grids and no guage to know how long your line.


When I first started with AnyRail, I watched a bunch of instructional videos on YouTube. 
This guy has a 40+ video series on it. Steam Powered Radio
The first few were enough to get me started.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> Like for instance im on anyrail right now trying to make a outline like ctv suggested. How do I know the length? I don't see any option for grids and no guage to know how long your line.


You set your grid option when you open a new file. If you can't tell from your grid how long a line is, you can add a ruler (right click on it to set its length). In any event, the object description in the lower right corner of the window will tell you how long your line is.

I can't solve the vision problem (although I wear cheaters when using a computer), but you can zoom the view to 1:1 scale. If you can't see that, see an ophthalmologist. 

Elevation is extremely simple. Right click on a point, select "set height", and you're done. If you want a slope, set the height at the two end points (and then lock it), then use <Shift+Click> to select all of the pieces that will be part of the incline (you can also just drag a box around it, but that's tricky if you have a lot of track in the same area), right click any of the pieces and select "smooth slope". It takes longer to describe than to do.

The bottom line is that there is a learning curve, and if you're not familiar with basic CAD concepts, that steepens the curve somewhat. Rather than just jumping and trying to start designing, spend some time acquainting yourself with the interface and the various commands. Watch or read some tutorials. And above all, understand that the software can do pretty much any task necessary to get your design down on paper just the way you want it, so approach everything by saying, "How do I...?" not "I can't...." You'll get the hang of it.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

BobT said:


> When I first started with AnyRail, I watched a bunch of instructional videos on YouTube.
> This guy has a 40+ video series on it. Steam Powered Radio
> The first few were enough to get me started.



Thx I'll check them out


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> You set your grid option when you open a new file. If you can't tell from your grid how long a line is, you can add a ruler (right click on it to set its length). In any event, the object description in the lower right corner of the window will tell you how long your line is.
> 
> I can't solve the vision problem (although I wear cheaters when using a computer), but you can zoom the view to 1:1 scale. If you can't see that, see an ophthalmologist.
> 
> ...



It's a few reason. My eyesight is good however on a comp monitor I can't read anything lol. I use windows magnifier.
The biggest thing atm is sitting there is painfull with my hernias (Have 3)
Then I am also kinda impatient which doesn't help


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> It's a few reason. My eyesight is good however on a comp monitor I can't read anything lol. I use windows magnifier.
> The biggest thing atm is sitting there is painfull with my hernias (Have 3)
> Then I am also kinda impatient which doesn't help


The impatience you must fix, or you'll never learn. Steadily working through things is the best way to succeed! I find the old-fashioned solution, reading glasses with blue light filtering coating, to be much kmore effective than Windows magnifier.

I just had my 3rd hernia repair operation in February, bringing my total hernias repaired up to 4. Unlike you, mine did not significantly affect my ability to do desk work, only to be up and active.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> The impatience you must fix, or you'll never learn. Steadily working through things is the best way to succeed! I find the old-fashioned solution, reading glasses with blue light filtering coating, to be much kmore effective than Windows magnifier.
> 
> I just had my 3rd hernia repair operation in February, bringing my total hernias repaired up to 4. Unlike you, mine did not significantly affect my ability to do desk work, only to be up and active.



Ya it's affecting me maybe because it's all 3 at once? Dunno these are my first. It's kinda weird the pain seems to move around like it picks one one day and the next needs a new flavor lol.

Anyways I'm starting to get the program and how to do it. Is there anyway to number your squares on the x and y access?
Plus you said when u click on the lines it will give the length? Don't see that anywhere


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Whenever you "select" a piece, the program gives you info about the piece you selected. It's in a small ribbon toward the bottom left. For example, if you select a curve piece, it will give the part number, the radius and degree of curvature along with length.

You can also select a stretch of many pieces, and it will give you overall length. It took me a while to figure out how to use flex pieces, but it came with practice and watching Youtube videos.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I build modular benchwork, but not modular scenery. My brother has an excellent “1 man job” type design, so 1 person can disassemble a huge layout no problem. I didn’t follow his method exactly due to the shape of my layout. But regardless, here is a vid of how & why he did his benchwork.





As for track design… I’m also a very hands on, visual type myself. I come up with a basic mainline & operation concept in my mind. Jot it down only roughly for reference. And that’s where I always start with track laying anyway. As for spur lengths, TO location, etc, I sorta shoehorn that in in a way that functions well. Maybe a TO needs to be 5 inches down the mainline or up, but it goes where it needs to in order to function. Example being if I need to fit two 86’ hi-cubes on the spur, plus uncoupling magnet space and clearance, I’d rather figure all that out first person & not guesstimate on a computer screen.
Following a plan down to the half inch of placement doesn’t leave much elbow room for when you need to make adjustments. Like aisles, elbow room is essential IMO. I know where industries will be, how many spurs each gets… but if a double spur will have a LH or RH turnout, a #4, #5, #6 or whatever I keep those determinations loose & fluid. Spur length & TO size are more important than precisely where the TO will be. Hence, shoehorn it where it works best.
This is also why I prefer (and often suggest) securing track temporarily and giving things a good month of test operations & hem/haw time. Better to decided changes are needed when things are just tacked/taped down. It takes longer, but somebody said something about anything worth doing…
So I vote for just a rough idea of track placement & tweak the finer decisions of it as you go however needed.

If you ever saw my track plan on The Seventies Salvation and thought it looks like childish chicken scratch; that’s on purpose.
My previous N layout was meticulously planned on old Atlas software (RTS? I think it was called). I ended up with a lot of problems, only partly due to the plan being Atlas track & my using Kato, there were other problems too getting Kato track to match the plan down to the 1/8th inch correct placement. So I do it a better way (for me) now.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> Whenever you "select" a piece, the program gives you info about the piece you selected. It's in a small ribbon toward the bottom left. For example, if you select a curve piece, it will give the part number, the radius and degree of curvature along with length.
> 
> You can also select a stretch of many pieces, and it will give you overall length. It took me a while to figure out how to use flex pieces, but it came with practice and watching Youtube videos.



I'm getting it but I'm getting stumped on how to make a enjoyable layout yet still be correct in the real world. I don't want a big oval that goes round and round yet I do want it continues so roundabouts on the ends.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

You could design it as sort of a horse shoe shape, with one “leg” of the horse shoe longer & curving around somewhat as an industry lead/branch line type thing… and have a connection back to the mainline off of that to hide that a loop exists.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> I'm getting it but I'm getting stumped on how to make a enjoyable layout yet still be correct in the real world. I don't want a big oval that goes round and round yet I do want it continues so roundabouts on the ends.


Model railroading is all about compromises. A mile in the real world (5280 feet) is still 60'+ in HO scale. Nobody has the room necessary to model a railroad of any kind of length accurately. So we use selective compression and visual disruption. Selective compression is just what it sounds like: you pretend things (the distance between towns, for example) are larger or smaller than what is represented by the true scale distance on your layout. Similarly with time; by running your trains more slowly and using a "fast clock" it appears to take your train several hours to transit the layout, when it really only takes a short time.

Visual disruption is the technique of making sure that you can't see parts of your train in two different settings at the same time. So you use structures or landscape features to break up larger areas of the layout, or install a double-sided backdrop (sometimes called a "view block") down the center of a peninsula. Or, by using a U shape to your layout, you make sure that you can't see your entire layout without moving or turning.

My layout does have a big oval, but it's well disguised. Making trains stop to drop and deliver cargos and / or passengers is what really adds to the sense of realism. It doesn't really matter whether the train actually goes around in a big circle. In real life, a train would be turned on a Y or a turntable before making a return journey. I don't have that kind of space, so I just let the return loop "turn" the train for me. Besides, sometimes I like to kick back and just watch the trains run. You can also build a so-called "point-to-point" layout, in which each end is a large yard, often hidden, and even sometimes on a different level or in another room. Then your trains start at one end, transit the layout (making pickups and set outs along the way), and ends up at the opposite end. Between operating sessions, you reset those trains to be ready for the trip back.

At the end of the day, it's more more about visual and operational interest that engages the operator, rather than avoiding a big loop or not.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Model railroading is all about compromises. A mile in the real world (5280 feet) is still 60'+ in HO scale. Nobody has the room necessary to model a railroad of any kind of length accurately. So we use selective compression and visual disruption. Selective compression is just what it sounds like: you pretend things (the distance between towns, for example) are larger or smaller than what is represented by the true scale distance on your layout. Similarly with time; by running your trains more slowly and using a "fast clock" it appears to take your train several hours to transit the layout, when it really only takes a short time.
> 
> Visual disruption is the technique of making sure that you can't see parts of your train in two different settings at the same time. So you use structures or landscape features to break up larger areas of the layout, or install a double-sided backdrop (sometimes called a "view block") down the center of a peninsula. Or, by using a U shape to your layout, you make sure that you can't see your entire layout without moving or turning.
> 
> ...


When I said more real I was more referring to every turnout making sense and to keep away from the stuffing track on the layout to see how much I can place lol.

I'm getting close to having it done. One side the main is circling a city which wouldvmake sense. The other is a roundabout around a tt and roundhouse along with a yard. Gotta try to visualize what it will look like because it is going a lil further than I was going to take it.
Gotta get a liscense in anyrail to do much more tho and the bills atm are low due to this....


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

You can cheat with the free version by "glueing" a few key pieces between sections. Then you can save half the layout at a time with the glued pieces being common to both halves.

Hope that made sense.

But then, Anyrail is a good program and is worth the small price!


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> You can cheat with the free version by "glueing" a few key pieces between sections. Then you can save half the layout at a time with the glued pieces being common to both halves.
> 
> Hope that made sense.
> 
> But then, Anyrail is a good program and is worth the small price!



Tried did not work. They must have patched that one. I'll probably get it either this week or next. My work has a week grace period before fmla kicks in which left me nothing but credit cards and I had just cams back from vacation and bought myself a 3d printer so funds are tight.....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

At the end of the day, I would get the license. It's worth it to get new updates as they are released (track libraries ans user generated objects are updated all the time.

Meanwhile, the fix that Jeff suggested does work. Do as much of your design as you can under the 50 (I think) object limit. I work with my track "glued" all the time, so that a new piece of flextrack can't "relay" what I've already placed, or so an errant mouse click doesn't drag my layout all over. Anyway, when you've done as much as you can, SAVE the file with a descriptive name (lower left, for instance). Then disconnect the pieces at the ends of your track, glue them in place, and delete the rest of the track. Immediately save with a new name (upper left, for instance), and continue working until you hit the object cap again. Repeat as necessary until you have completed your design. You can overlay printouts of each section to get a sense of the whole. Just remember that any change that affects the fixed end piece in one file has to be duplicated in the other(s).


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

That's the way I did it until I decided to go ahead and buy the license. I really like AnyRail. I used it for 5-6 months while playing around with layout designs, and still only scratched the surface of what it can do.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Ya moved some $$ around and went ahead and got the liscense. I'll probably finish today coukd really use some pointers. It can get rough placing flex ....


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Have you figured out how to shape flex into a curve? Right click on a piece of flex track and choose something like "shape flex" (I can't remember the actual name). A popup window comes up where you can enter the radius and degrees. So you can shape a piece of flex track into an radius with any degree of curve you want. The piece of flex must not be attached to another piece in order to shape it using this method. But once it's shaped, you can connect it just like any other piece.

For example, I wanted to make a 90 degree curve out of a piece of flex track coming off a turnout. The turnout had a diverging route of 12 degrees, so I "bent" a piece of flex track to have a 12" radius and bend 78 degrees. So when I connected that piece of bent flex track to the turnout, I ended up with a total of 90 degree curve.

You can also shape pieces of flex using your mouse, but that is not very precise. It is a nice feature, though, if you want to create a meandering series of gentle curves.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> Have you figured out how to shape flex into a curve? Right click on a piece of flex track and choose something like "shape flex" (I can't remember the actual name). A popup window comes up where you can enter the radius and degrees. So you can shape a piece of flex track into an radius with any degree of curve you want. The piece of flex must not be attached to another piece in order to shape it using this method. But once it's shaped, you can connect it just like any other piece.
> 
> For example, I wanted to make a 90 degree curve out of a piece of flex track coming off a turnout. The turnout had a diverging route of 12 degrees, so I "bent" a piece of flex track to have a 12" radius and bend 78 degrees. So when I connected that piece of bent flex track to the turnout, I ended up with a total of 90 degree curve.
> 
> You can also shape pieces of flex using your mouse, but that is not very precise. It is a nice feature, though, if you want to create a meandering series of gentle curves.



Not having problems with making a curve. It's if I want to make changes after. Even tho it would be less of a curve it seems to want to sometimes kink. I'll even try to use the smooth button and that won't work.
Anyways I've got a initial plan
It's not as much as I wanted because of the radius curves and how the room is where I'm putting it.

The red sections are the walls. At the far left of the layout I put a wall there because in actuality there is a pole there right in the middle.


Grrrr how do you attach your layout plans it won't accept me posting with a .any extension.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

It’d be nice if you could build an extension around the support column and utilize it, ie as a grain silo, water tower, exhaust stack, etc. That’s what three (2 posts 1 drain) are destined for on mine. I’m going to build a removable benchwork section around the drain just in case repairs/replacement are ever needed. Probably do the same for the support posts to make life easier. Cut a hole in plywood/foam, then cut that in half to join around it. Benchwork sorta the same way with a box frame, a recess in the framing with supports to hold a removable “plug” at the posts. A couple suitcase clasps to secure it from moving & done.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

OilValleyRy said:


> It’d be nice if you could build an extension around the support column and utilize it, ie as a grain silo, water tower, exhaust stack, etc. That’s what three (2 posts 1 drain) are destined for on mine. I’m going to build a removable benchwork section around the drain just in case repairs/replacement are ever needed. Probably do the same for the support posts to make life easier. Cut a hole in plywood/foam, then cut that in half to join around it. Benchwork sorta the same way with a box frame, a recess in the framing with supports to hold a removable “plug” at the posts. A couple suitcase clasps to secure it from moving & done.



Ya wish I could but it would hinder movement to the back room with everything for the house so gotta have a walkway.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

BTW what do you do to post your layout. Anyrail saves it as a .any file this site won't let me post my plan


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Try do "export as" instead of "print"

You should be able to "export as" an image like PNG or JPG


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Ok tell me what tall think. I know it's a lil rough being my first real time using anyrail.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I think those dark colored pieces are flex track stretched beyond their original length.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> I think those dark colored pieces are flex track stretched beyond their original length.


Maybe but that's not a big deal just know I'll need two
I did however notice I have two pieces only at 20° going to have to get it wider somehow.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

The one around the tt is a reverse loop why its dark but yes the others are stretched


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

That's a pretty large layout with a lot of free space. Did you mention scale? Am I reading that correctly at about 20 feet wide?

I have one suggestion... The yard right above the docks... The way the yard is built, you have a bunch of S curves. It would be better to have the main spur go straight, using a series of 3-6 right-hand turnouts.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I’m guessing there’s going to be some duck unders? That split “south” of the left mine reminds me of the Keddie Wye bridge on the Western Pacific.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> That's a pretty large layout with a lot of free space. Did you mention scale? Am I reading that correctly at about 20 feet wide?
> 
> I have one suggestion... The yard right above the docks... The way the yard is built, you have a bunch of S curves. It would be better to have the main spur go straight, using a series of 3-6 right-hand turnouts.


Ya I felt the same way but considering I've gotta get around that wall that makes it difficult having broad curves and extra track. I thought about going over that lil wall section (between the mines and the plant) but it's I believe 9" above the top that's a whole lot of going uphill to get to that elevation lol


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Hmm thinking wonder how it would look if I used a dbl main and have it pretty much straight going horizontal then have branches coming of it up in the two big sections. Still make it so the trains can turn around. I dunno maybe I'll try that tomorrow


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

How many inches is each square in that grid?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I think they are 1-foot squares. About 20 feet wide.

Is this HO or N? I'm thinking HO, but not 100% sure. In either case, you may have a hard time reaching all areas unless it's floating and you have access from front and back.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

OK, a lot to unpack, since I have been here in about 24 hours. A couple of things to point out. First, Kevin, when printing (either on paper or as a jpg), select the "Entire Layout" option rather than the view. This will, put your entire layout into an appropriately sized, centered picture at the largest size possible. Much easier to see.

Secondly, flex track. Go back and fix those "overly long" pieces. If you do like their configuration, simply right click on it and say "Cut flex here". It will divide the track into two pieces at the point of your mouse pointer. This way you can be sure that there aren't any issues, and you can shape each piece of flex in a realistic manner. Speaking of issues, i also think i see several areas with a red line in the middle, which means you exceeded your design limit on curve radius. You'll definitely want to fix those. 

Another way to manage flex track is by using the "handles". Each end of a piece of flex track has a line with a cross at the end extending from it. By dragging those crosses around, you can shape the flex track into any desired configuration (even ones that are impossible to achieve in real life). If the piece adjacent to the flex track is glued down, then only your current piece will move when you do this. If you UNGLUE those pieces, those handles will shape and align those pieces as well, back to the last glued piece. This is a very powerful tool for getting your track configured exactly as you want it.

Now some practical stuff on the layout itself. In addition to some very long reaches, which will be an issue, I'm wondering why you chose to design in a series of loops rather than one enormous loop? That really will kill your sense of reality, because despite what I said in my earlier post, those tight loops will be hard to disguise. Broaden it out -- think of your entire layout area at once. Longer straight runs also makes the inclusion of sidings and yards much easier. If you want to divide it into "scenes" or areas, use dividers or terrain to do that. For an example of what I mean, see my layout plan, Post #7 in the "Here are the Layouts of Forum Members" sticky thread under Layout Design. Here are LAYOUTS of Forum Members

In fact, look through that whole thread, and its companion, "A Collection of Track Plans". Those may give you some inspiration on how to attack your available space.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> I think they are 1-foot squares. About 20 feet wide.
> 
> Is this HO or N? I'm thinking HO, but not 100% sure. In either case, you may have a hard time reaching all areas unless it's floating and you have access from front and back.



Ho 12 inch squares and that is why I'm leaving a lil space in the back if I need to squeeze back there do my work and go from there. What I did with tge layout I just tore down.

I redid the plan but the program kept irritating me. 
Going to post what I have however I know the bottom main isn't perfect and I did not finish tge big yard next to the tt. And there are a cpl kinks in the flex track that I could not get the program to flow better. I am new at actually bending the track on the program using the black plus signs and circles to maneuver it correctly. 


didn't notice the roundhouse not in place also


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> OK, a lot to unpack, since I have been here in about 24 hours. A couple of things to point out. First, Kevin, when printing (either on paper or as a jpg), select the "Entire Layout" option rather than the view. This will, put your entire layout into an appropriately sized, centered picture at the largest size possible. Much easier to see.
> 
> Secondly, flex track. Go back and fix those "overly long" pieces. If you do like their configuration, simply right click on it and say "Cut flex here". It will divide the track into two pieces at the point of your mouse pointer. This way you can be sure that there aren't any issues, and you can shape each piece of flex in a realistic manner. Speaking of issues, i also think i see several areas with a red line in the middle, which means you exceeded your design limit on curve radius. You'll definitely want to fix those.
> 
> ...


Was trying the handles didn't know about tge glue and hiw it can be used in combination to better get the track where you want it. Suffice to say trying it without is a pita I started to get frustrated so I was going to just make sure it's tiddy when I lay track.

As far as the loops I know I was 100 sold on it either as you can tell the main isn't looping around the city (left side) as far as the right side it's the end of the line due to the shore there


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Ok fixed a lot of the issues. Could not fix one of them for the life of me tho. Where the first circle comes out to the main. Not sure why it kept having problems tho. 
There is s lot of red I believe I have 3 reverse loops on this plan.


So what do you think of it. I think personally the far right needs a lil work. I wanted a way to pick up parked cars either way.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

As I said, I'm not sold on the "snowman" look. I think you could do a lot better with the space you have. You also have some significant space issues; assuming that what you told us above is correct, you only have a foot of clearance to that back wall. Unless you are extraordinarily skinny, that's not enough; 20" is about the minumum that a nnormal person can navigate. Even getting in behind it, though, your layout is still 7' across -- no way you're going to be able to reach the center of it. Several of your turnouts are right in the center; completely out of reach.

I also still see a lot of red lines down the center of the flex track. That means your curves are too sharp. Don't worry about reversing loops at this stage of the game. You can handle those when you're ready to actually lay track.

Are those thick red lines the support pillars? If not, what are they?


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> As I said, I'm not sold on the "snowman" look. I think you could do a lot better with the space you have. You also have some significant space issues; assuming that what you told us above is correct, you only have a foot of clearance to that back wall. Unless you are extraordinarily skinny, that's not enough; 20" is about the minumum that a nnormal person can navigate. Even getting in behind it, though, your layout is still 7' across -- no way you're going to be able to reach the center of it. Several of your turnouts are right in the center; completely out of reach.
> 
> I also still see a lot of red lines down the center of the flex track. That means your curves are too sharp. Don't worry about reversing loops at this stage of the game. You can handle those when you're ready to actually lay track.
> 
> Are those thick red lines the support pillars? If not, what are they?



My last layout was where the city is I kept a foot on the back wall. All I would do is slide up the wall if I needed to do work. I would rather have the wide turns so I can run my long passenger cars and my very long flatbed.

As for the red are you talkingvabout the sharp curve in the middle that goes from the coal yard to the plant?
Just saw that it wasn't supposed to go that route it was supposed to go down to the main. 
As far as the red. I mentioned it earlier the first one is a wall with a post at the end. The wall sits just a lil high 9" above the table or I would have connected thru that way.

Here's a pic a lil messy atm you will be able to see how much I would have to go uphill to reach that. My whole layout would consist of going uphill then downhill lol. So instead I'm stuck with these huge loops I could easily hide the one on the left as in the middlecwill be a city and then the train station. As for the left one it's going around the yard and turntable plus you have a ocean there. Or some kind of big water body.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

While I'm sure the pillar is structural, I'm certain that little wall isn't. Knock it out or go through it.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> While I'm sure the pillar is structural, I'm certain that little wall isn't. Knock it out or go through it.



Going to be more than likely be selling in a cpl years or I would.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Ok i think I know exactly what I want tell me if you like the idea and if in another person's perspective what problems could arise.


I've showed you the space and the prob I have with that half wall and pole. There is 9 1/2 inches to that however I still need to add the 2 inch foam.

So at that wall level. Around shoulder height maybe slightly less. Have a circle with train station and a city in the middle. Dont want any track towards the center due to added reach. Have a dbl main coming out of there over the wall have dbl truss bridge going into next room.where the two rail decending thru the pass for 12 feet. Slight turn to the right over a bridge then start looping around to the left where it goes under the bridge it just went over. So have it running below the high pass above maybe a cpl spots that even our grade wise for turnouts that lead to a couple industries. But it keeps going down until the track are just left of that in pole/partial wall. Then make go to a yard with the tt roundhouse. I would have 7 1/2 in after I put 2 inch foam on thr boad. For 8 inches of decent I need 33 feet at a 2% grade. I think Its 12 feet to that pole from the other one. Add another 5 feet for the circle back probably be more. Going under the bridge maybe have them making large turns as it is depending I think I can get at least 17' more of decending track. 

2 things tho

So there's 7 1/2 inches. Minus the foam (think they make 1" polyurethane foam right? The pink stuff.

Would 6 1/2 inches be enough maneuvering room? 
Only will have a cple buildings. 

Turntable roundhouse (4") and a bunch of switches

Around the border of the above level there will be 2×4 make the posts on the 4 corners of the below level.

Should u try to make more work room between them? I would have to sacrifice grade to make more space. I maybe do it with 3% grade pulling trains up and down 40' rise/decent would = 12 inches of clearance.

Would that be possible to do work on a layout? Going to try to have a little clearance on all 4 sides so I can reach in. As for above I can use stepstools or I have a ladder I'll keep in there 


So think this is possible?


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I didn't see this before you wasted money buying software license for a difficult to use product. I would have suggested (and still think it would be worth it) to simply download Xtrackcad. It's free and works flawlessly on Windows, Linux, and Apple os. No need to pay for upgrades ever since it's open source. Works with any scale and with any track from Z to ride on Live Steam! I tried every software package on the market when I started planning my latest layout, and found Xtrack cad was the only one I didn't have to fight or change my thinking to do things their way, or make compromises on what I wanted to do. You could watch their tutorial videos, look under the help tab, or simply ask questions on their forum to get answers from one of the developers or the thousands of happy users within minutes or at most a few hours after asking, not days or weeks waiting for the one person that knows how it's suppose to work or can fix it to answer. Since xtrkcad is free, you owe it to yourself to give it a try no matter what. I can walk you thru the basic set up f\or your layout in less than a 1/2 hr. Go here and download the version for your operating system and install it. send me a DM as soon as you do. XTrkCAD Model RR Track Planner


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

scenicsRme said:


> I didn't see this before you wasted money buying software license for a difficult to use product. I would have suggested (and still think it would be worth it) to simply download Xtrackcad. It's free and works flawlessly on Windows, Linux, and Apple os. No need to pay for upgrades ever since it's open source. Works with any scale and with any track from Z to ride on Live Steam! I tried every software package on the market when I started planning my latest layout, and found Xtrack cad was the only one I didn't have to fight or change my thinking to do things their way, or make compromises on what I wanted to do. You could watch their tutorial videos, look under the help tab, or simply ask questions on their forum to get answers from one of the developers or the thousands of happy users within minutes or at most a few hours after asking, not days or weeks waiting for the one person that knows how it's suppose to work or can fix it to answer. Since xtrkcad is free, you owe it to yourself to give it a try no matter what. I can walk you thru the basic set up f\or your layout in less than a 1/2 hr. Go here and download the version for your operating system and install it. send me a DM as soon as you do. XTrkCAD Model RR Track Planner


Oh, just stop. You're always on about this. Absolutely the ONLY difference between XTrackCad and AnyRail is the price. AnyRail can do EVERYTHING that you cite above, and more besides. Why would he waste time trying XTrackCAD after investing the time to learn a different program? Free isn't necessarily better -- in fact, I would argue that a company with a revenue stream behind it is likely to have more resources and more longevity that one that doesn't. 

Besides, say what you will about XTrackCAD, I tried it when I was looking at software, and I found it an incomprehensible mess, much Korean difficult to use than AnyRail. User experience is a very individualized thing; just because you find it easy doesn't mean anyone else will. The other thing is that any software has a learning curve to it. You can download the software and be laying track fairly well with ANY product within half an hour. Becoming really good at it takes somewhat longer. If you had read any or our descriptions of how to use AnyRail with an open mind, you would realize how easy it is to use.

And any time someone offers these extended fanboy sales pitches, especially after the fact, I have to wonder if the poster is making an honest recommendation, or has a vested interest in the selection.

Now either CONTRIBUTE meaningfully to the discussion by HELPING ConductorKev with his design, and in using AnyRail, if you can provide any help there, or butt out.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

OK, Conductorkev, I took a crack at a layout play using your space. Here is what I came up with. If you look, you'll notice that there is a bit of a tight squeeze (a little under 17") at one part of the aisle, which I'm not really happy with, but it's what works in the available space, although if you wanted a little more space, you could slide the lower return loop a few inches further to the right, at the price of losing space in the aisle there. I didn't touch your half-walls.

The reach in the center peninsula / half-wall area is a little ugly, so I put an access hatch or area there. I wasn't worried about the upper right corner, because you can always come in through the opening in the half wall, or next to it, to reach that if you have to. You could expand the yard to the right if you wanted more tracks; likewise, you could add more tracks to the turntable / roundhouse or to the car shop area. All the structures are Walthers Cornerstone models except the two mine structures; you'd have to kitbash or scratchbuild something to fit there (or make it ONE mine with two loading tracks by reconfiguring the two sidings.

Here's what I have:









Now, the other thing I wasn't really happy with, is the functionality of the yard, because a runaround move is impossible, unless you drop your train on the main, go around the harbor, and come in behind it again. Now, if you're willing to compromise with a 22" curve instead of a 24" one, it becomes possible to put a Y into the yard area, enabling a much easier run-around (at the cost of a yard track). Having said that, using 22" instead of 24" throughout would open things up quite a bit -- widening that aisle around the center peninsula and giving you some more room to use both on the left hand side and in the upper right.

Here is that plan:









If you would like these files in .any format so you can play with them, send me a PM (conversation) with your e-mail address and I will send them to you. If not, I hope at least that you will find it inspirational as you come through your planning process.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> OK, Conductorkev, I took a crack at a layout play using your space. Here is what I came up with. If you look, you'll notice that there is a bit of a tight squeeze (a little under 17") at one part of the aisle, which I'm not really happy with, but it's what works in the available space, although if you wanted a little more space, you could slide the lower return loop a few inches further to the right, at the price of losing space in the aisle there. I didn't touch your half-walls.
> 
> The reach in the center peninsula / half-wall area is a little ugly, so I put an access hatch or area there. I wasn't worried about the upper right corner, because you can always come in through the opening in the half wall, or next to it, to reach that if you have to. You could expand the yard to the right if you wanted more tracks; likewise, you could add more tracks to the turntable / roundhouse or to the car shop area. All the structures are Walthers Cornerstone models except the two mine structures; you'd have to kitbash or scratchbuild something to fit there (or make it ONE mine with two loading tracks by reconfiguring the two sidings.
> 
> ...



I should have mentioned in the lower left that's a closet that I need access to it considering it's where the well system is at. Interesting plan tho. I've got one very close to being finished I just don't know if it would frustrate me. 
It's 2 levels I'll show u what I have so far the bottom lvl isn't quite finished. BTW working with elevation is just as frustrating as scarm. I'm also not finished with the second track hence why all the track parts laying around in the pic lol.

I've managed 11" from top of the bottom to foam. Might be able to squeeze out another cpl of inches using a incline on lower lvl. 3% plus or minus a cpl here and there.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> I should have mentioned in the lower left that's a closet that I need access to it considering it's where the well system is at. Interesting plan tho. I've got one very close to being finished I just don't know if it would frustrate me.
> It's 2 levels I'll show u what I have so far the bottom lvl isn't quite finished. BTW working with elevation is just as frustrating as scarm. I'm also not finished with the second track hence why all the track parts laying around in the pic lol.
> 
> I've managed 11" from top of the bottom to foam. Might be able to squeeze out another cpl of inches using a incline on lower lvl. 3% plus or minus a cpl here and there.


So shorten the left side a little and give yourself some room to get back in there. Or create a lift out section at that spot -- in 22 years of living with a well, I have yet to need access to it (yes, I know you are probably required to maintain access by code). A friend of mine built his layout OVER the well control equipment. Lots of ways to skin that cat.

Speaking of going over things, I would not try to go over those walls with an extreme slope (3% or higher). I would just build the benchwork higher so that the top of the layout is level with the top of the half wall (48", right?). And there are a couple of dozen ways to raise the height of existing benchwork, too.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> So shorten the left side a little and give yourself some room to get back in there. Or create a lift out section at that spot -- in 22 years of living with a well, I have yet to need access to it (yes, I know you are probably required to maintain access by code). A friend of mine built his layout OVER the well control equipment. Lots of ways to skin that cat.
> 
> Speaking of going over things, I would not try to go over those walls with an extreme slope (3% or higher). I would just build the benchwork higher so that the top of the layout is level with the top of the half wall (48", right?). And there are a couple of dozen ways to raise the height of existing benchwork, too.



Funny you should day that about the well. I had to go in there twice this year. 1st time somehow the system went out. Someone had to turn off the system late last year and along with that disconnected the aerator. Weird. Welll that was end of last year then just a month ago alarm went off hhe aerator died. The way I had my last layout I'll insert a pic of walkway to it.









The ledge is about 48".

My art skills aren't the greatest but hey it passes the time lol


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

CTValleyRR said:


> Oh, just stop. You're always on about this. Absolutely the ONLY difference between XTrackCad and AnyRail is the price. AnyRail can do EVERYTHING that you cite above, and more besides. Why would he waste time trying XTrackCAD after investing the time to learn a different program? Free isn't necessarily better -- in fact, I would argue that a company with a revenue stream behind it is likely to have more resources and more longevity that one that doesn't.
> 
> Besides, say what you will about XTrackCAD, I tried it when I was looking at software, and I found it an incomprehensible mess, much Korean difficult to use than AnyRail. User experience is a very individualized thing; just because you find it easy doesn't mean anyone else will. The other thing is that any software has a learning curve to it. You can download the software and be laying track fairly well with ANY product within half an hour. Becoming really good at it takes somewhat longer. If you had read any or our descriptions of how to use AnyRail with an open mind, you would realize how easy it is to use.
> 
> ...


6*93..............
Now this is a personal attack, and completely against the forum rules unless someone made you the moderator since yesterday, you don't have any right to tell anyone to "Butt out"!. But since you took the cheap shots, I feel it only fair that I should be able to rebut you. How can I possibly have a "vested interest" in something that is FREE!?!?!? No one as far as I'm aware is making a single dime off xtrackcad. I am simply a very satisfied user, I have no other vested interest in the program. Why is YOUR program choice the only viable one, or are YOU the one with the vested interest in a high priced for (high) profit package? What happens when that person decides he is not making enough money, so he just walks away from it, or he sells it out to a company that is only interested in killing it (cough Microsoft, cough), or heaven forbid, dies, who will take it over? Xtrak has a team of volunteer developers all over the world constantly maintaining and up grading the open source package. (open source means the code is available to anyone) if one of them should drop out it's like a corporation with a board of directors, it will continue without hardly a hiccup. I don't know enough about anyrail to offer any help, because I refused to buy or use the arcane package. I didn't list everything that xtrk can do but so far I see things just in what you posted that it does better and easier. i.e. flex track paths: I can cut in or lay down two turnouts say that I want to connect with a free curve of flex track WITH EASEMENTS. I can do that with 3 mouse clicks, the program will create what it thinks is the best route. If I don't like what it drew I can push or pull the new track around until I'm happy. It doesn't care if the route is longer or shorter than a length of flex, It tells you how many pieces of flex you will need for the whole thing, you can decide how you want to join them when you lay the track. Elevations? No problem xtrack will calculate and tell you what the clearances are between cross over points and what the slope and profile is of the track on both sides, so you can include vertical easements as well. Easement are very important to making the trains run smoothly like the prototype rather than like an amusement park ride that if full size would throw the passengers and goods across the car every time the train changed direction. Free is Free, why not give it a try just because he already bought the other package. Haven't you EVER bought something that you shouldn't have due to bad advice and chalked it up to a learning experience? Maybe when you tried Xtrackcad the user interface wasn't very good, but since I've been using it xtrak has a very easy and friendly user interface, customized for each operating system. i.e. if you use it on Windows, the interface is very much like a windows program, if you use apple os, it works and looks like an apple program, Same with Linux like I use, it seems very comfortable and familiar. The help files and tutorials are much better than most software and available in a laundry list of laguages, not just English if you are more comfortable with another language. They are translated by native speakers who are enthusiasts (real People) rather than an AI program. It's just a shame that people like you decide it can't be good if it's free, so you just dismiss it out of hand. If he tries it and decides Anyrail is better for him, all he's lost is a little time. But I think he should know all the options not just one person's personal prejudice.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

scenicsRme said:


> 6*93..............
> Now this is a personal attack, and completely against the forum rules unless someone made you the moderator since yesterday, you don't have any right to tell anyone to "Butt out"!. But since you took the cheap shots, I feel it only fair that I should be able to rebut you. How can I possibly have a "vested interest" in something that is FREE!?!?!? No one as far as I'm aware is making a single dime off xtrackcad. I am simply a very satisfied user, I have no other vested interest in the program. Why is YOUR program choice the only viable one, or are YOU the one with the vested interest in a high priced for (high) profit package? What happens when that person decides he is not making enough money, so he just walks away from it, or he sells it out to a company that is only interested in killing it (cough Microsoft, cough), or heaven forbid, dies, who will take it over? Xtrak has a team of volunteer developers all over the world constantly maintaining and up grading the open source package. (open source means the code is available to anyone) if one of them should drop out it's like a corporation with a board of directors, it will continue without hardly a hiccup. I don't know enough about anyrail to offer any help, because I refused to buy or use the arcane package. I didn't list everything that xtrk can do but so far I see things just in what you posted that it does better and easier. i.e. flex track paths: I can cut in or lay down two turnouts say that I want to connect with a free curve of flex track WITH EASEMENTS. I can do that with 3 mouse clicks, the program will create what it thinks is the best route. If I don't like what it drew I can push or pull the new track around until I'm happy. It doesn't care if the route is longer or shorter than a length of flex, It tells you how many pieces of flex you will need for the whole thing, you can decide how you want to join them when you lay the track. Elevations? No problem xtrack will calculate and tell you what the clearances are between cross over points and what the slope and profile is of the track on both sides, so you can include vertical easements as well. Easement are very important to making the trains run smoothly like the prototype rather than like an amusement park ride that if full size would throw the passengers and goods across the car every time the train changed direction. Free is Free, why not give it a try just because he already bought the other package. Haven't you EVER bought something that you shouldn't have due to bad advice and chalked it up to a learning experience? Maybe when you tried Xtrackcad the user interface wasn't very good, but since I've been using it xtrak has a very easy and friendly user interface, customized for each operating system. i.e. if you use it on Windows, the interface is very much like a windows program, if you use apple os, it works and looks like an apple program, Same with Linux like I use, it seems very comfortable and familiar. The help files and tutorials are much better than most software and available in a laundry list of laguages, not just English if you are more comfortable with another language. They are translated by native speakers who are enthusiasts (real People) rather than an AI program. It's just a shame that people like you decide it can't be good if it's free, so you just dismiss it out of hand. If he tries it and decides Anyrail is better for him, all he's lost is a little time. But I think he should know all the options not just one person's personal prejudice.



FYI I did try however I'm not going to hurry to learn another program. Atm it is hard enough sitting at the computer. And using cad on a phone heck no. I'll probably play with it after I'm done with this plan and got it under way. 
One thing I could not find In the 10 mins I was in there how do you pull up different makers turnouts?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

scenicsRme said:


> 6*93..............
> Now this is a personal attack, and completely against the forum rules unless someone made you the moderator since yesterday, you don't have any right to tell anyone to "Butt out"!. But since you took the cheap shots, I feel it only fair that I should be able to rebut you. How can I possibly have a "vested interest" in something that is FREE!?!?!? No one as far as I'm aware is making a single dime off xtrackcad. I am simply a very satisfied user, I have no other vested interest in the program. Why is YOUR program choice the only viable one, or are YOU the one with the vested interest in a high priced for (high) profit package? What happens when that person decides he is not making enough money, so he just walks away from it, or he sells it out to a company that is only interested in killing it (cough Microsoft, cough), or heaven forbid, dies, who will take it over? Xtrak has a team of volunteer developers all over the world constantly maintaining and up grading the open source package. (open source means the code is available to anyone) if one of them should drop out it's like a corporation with a board of directors, it will continue without hardly a hiccup. I don't know enough about anyrail to offer any help, because I refused to buy or use the arcane package. I didn't list everything that xtrk can do but so far I see things just in what you posted that it does better and easier. i.e. flex track paths: I can cut in or lay down two turnouts say that I want to connect with a free curve of flex track WITH EASEMENTS. I can do that with 3 mouse clicks, the program will create what it thinks is the best route. If I don't like what it drew I can push or pull the new track around until I'm happy. It doesn't care if the route is longer or shorter than a length of flex, It tells you how many pieces of flex you will need for the whole thing, you can decide how you want to join them when you lay the track. Elevations? No problem xtrack will calculate and tell you what the clearances are between cross over points and what the slope and profile is of the track on both sides, so you can include vertical easements as well. Easement are very important to making the trains run smoothly like the prototype rather than like an amusement park ride that if full size would throw the passengers and goods across the car every time the train changed direction. Free is Free, why not give it a try just because he already bought the other package. Haven't you EVER bought something that you shouldn't have due to bad advice and chalked it up to a learning experience? Maybe when you tried Xtrackcad the user interface wasn't very good, but since I've been using it xtrak has a very easy and friendly user interface, customized for each operating system. i.e. if you use it on Windows, the interface is very much like a windows program, if you use apple os, it works and looks like an apple program, Same with Linux like I use, it seems very comfortable and familiar. The help files and tutorials are much better than most software and available in a laundry list of laguages, not just English if you are more comfortable with another language. They are translated by native speakers who are enthusiasts (real People) rather than an AI program. It's just a shame that people like you decide it can't be good if it's free, so you just dismiss it out of hand. If he tries it and decides Anyrail is better for him, all he's lost is a little time. But I think he should know all the options not just one person's personal prejudice.


It's not a personal attack, but you present and describe the product in a way that is at best grossly misinformed or at worst a deliberate misrepresentation. In your rebuttal above, you continue to talk about how wonderful XTrackCAD is, but again, you're not presenting any information on how it's BETTER than everything else (again, nothing I see there that is a capability that all of these programs don't have. To suggest that someone who purchased a competing product wasted their money, or bought something they shouldn't have, is a false value judgment, and your blatant attitude to induce buyer's remorse on others is unethical, and unhelpful jn the extreme. When you post garbage like that, you obligate less biased members to set the record straight.

No one is suggesting that XTrackCAD not be considered an option. But it needs to be presented as that, and only that: an option. It is not the universal solution to all track planning woes. Give it a fair, unbiased recommendatio and let the individual user assess it for himself, without you trying to pressure or guilt him into doing it. If you have no vested interest in the outcome, then that should be enough, and if you do have a vested interest, then your behavior is unethical.

I have no prejudice or bias towards any one software product (although I do admit to a bias against SCARM, for reasons I won't go into here). But I am firmly opposed to misrepresentations of one product's benefits over another. 

The OP already has Anyrail. The only proper course is to help him learn it and use it to design his layout. If you're not going to do that, please stop posting in this thread. Start your own thread praising the virtues of XTrackCAD if it will make you feel better. Maybe if you tell everyone how good it is (without falsely denigrating someone else's), maybe you'll get some people to sign up.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Conductorkev said:


> FYI I did try however I'm not going to hurry to learn another program. Atm it is hard enough sitting at the computer. And using cad on a phone heck no. I'll probably play with it after I'm done with this plan and got it under way.
> One thing I could not find In the 10 mins I was in there how do you pull up different makers turnouts?


Since there are so many different manufacturers track parameter files available it only automatically pulls up the most popular when you designate your scale. to see/load any or all available, go to *file* menu, click on* parameter files>library*. you will see a box listing all 295 parameter files (note there are parameter files available for some structures and locomotives, cars, as well as track that other users, myself included, have uploaded) do a search on whatever is important, like manufacturer, choose what files you want to use and load. Library tells me there are 85 files pertaining to N scale, my scale option I had selected on setting up the program. Once the parameter files are added, they will show up on the selection "hot bar" as well as under the _*add*_ menu > *predefined track*. Note that every single parameter file has been checked for dimensional accuracy, these are actual mathematically generated replicas from the manufacturers engineering specs or actual measurements of track if the manufacturers specs are not available, not just scans or approximations.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

CTValleyRR said:


> It's not a personal attack, but you present and describe the product in a way that is at best grossly misinformed or at worst a deliberate misrepresentation. I and your blatant attitude to induce buyer's remorse on others is unethical, and unhelpful jn the extreme. When you post garbage like that, you obligate less biased members to set the record straight.
> 
> and if you do have a vested interest, then your behavior is unethical.
> 
> ...


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Even if both programs do exactly the same thing as you claim, which I can't understand that claim as you yourself said you only gave Xtrack a cursery look a long time ago, then Xtrk still has the major trump card, IT'S FREE! Let me turn your challenge around, you tell US exactly what Anyrail does *better* than Xtrackcad _that makes it worth the money_?


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Guess I'll just make another thread since this on got hijacked


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

scenicsRme said:


> More personal attacks! Where is the moderator?
> You have a lot of experience, and usually post useful if not biased to your "publications" but you are also argumentative and insulting if your OPINION is rebuked.


Feel free to report the post, if you think a mod would object. I don't think they will. Those aren't personal attacks, rather they are comments caused by your behavior. Notice that I am clearly referring to the behavior, not the poster.

I haven't insulted you either. I have said that phrasing things in the way that you have isn't ethical. Don't complain when someone calls you out on it. And I'm not being argumentative either -- I'm just correcting the record, which wouldn't need correcting if you could keep your own posts to factual matters and not value judgments. You are free to disagree with my opinions, so long as you present your disagreements as your own difference of opinion, and not absolute truth.

And your nonsense has caused the OP to abandon his thread. Well done. That was very helpful, too.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

scenicsRme said:


> Even if both programs do exactly the same thing as you claim, which I can't understand that claim as you yourself said you only gave Xtrack a cursery look a long time ago, then Xtrk still has the major trump card, IT'S FREE! Let me turn your challenge around, you tell US exactly what Anyrail does *better* than Xtrackcad _that makes it worth the money_?


Free is, by me and many others, grossly overrated. Free doesn't make something better: you get what you pay for,. 
As for your challenge, I addressed this issue, back in my original correction of the record. Go look. But I will add three more words: Ease of use. Again, that's my opinion, but it clearly addresses the issue. That's why I felt it was worth it, and why so many others have done so as well.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

To the OP: I apologize for hijacking yoru post. That was not my intent or my normal demeaner. I normally try to be helpful as I too am an old timer in this hobby and want to help others skip over some of the growing pain parts. Note my answer to your question on how to find the parameter files in xtrack, that would be a normal detailed how to answer I'd give to a question.
This is not the first or even the second time CTV has taken on his holier than tho attitude to something I've posted, I have in the past just ignored it, but this time I took exception to being called and implied as being dishonest.
I acquiesce to being pushed out of this thread by the forum bully for the sake of civility. I will refrain from posting to this thread or any others you start unless directly invited by you, that means you will get basically only one person's opinions framed as facts. i believe I had much valuable information to add to assist you.
CTV: yelling "ease of use..." without factual comparisons between the two programs, carries as much weight as someone who shall remain nameless yelling "Fake news!" any time someone disagrees with him. At least free is a value comparison that has meaning to some other than your vaporous "many others" supporters you include who would rather spend money on nothing different than get it for free. 
I also apologize to anyone else's time that has been wasted. I am outa here!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You really just don't get it, do you? I'm glad you decided to drop it for everyone's sake. Thank you, though. I did get s chuckle out of your complete mischaracterization of my behavior and posts.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Wait a minute….I thought I was the forum bully! Now I’m pissed….😠


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Apparently, it's not very hard to earn that title around here. I guess all you have to do is call someone out when they try to overhype their favorite product and misrepresent their opinions as objective facts.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> Guess I'll just make another thread since this on got hijacked


That’s not a great idea. While you did start this thread there may be others with the same questions or problems who have been following it. By starting another one you make it more difficult to follow and then you might have the confusing situation of people replying on two different threads. 

Yes, disagreements sometimes occur, especially on highly technical topics such as this. Keep in mind that these members are (were) helping you. You seem to have decided on one system vs. the other and it looks like you have made progress in learning it. 
The controversy seems to be over. I would just put that in the past and continue on with the learning process.


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

🥊
🙃y'all too dam grumpy . why dont y'all take some dang chill pills and have some cofee. good way to run off people who want to be part of a group ... this makes it very hard and makes them not want to return . if y'all wanna box please go out side and get that crap out of here..... now back to the program .... i think your layout is what you want to make of it build it and it really dont matter what program to use as long as your comphy with it thats all that matters ............... BE HAPPY 😀


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

sid said:


> 🥊
> 🙃y'all too dam grumpy . why dont y'all take some dang chill pills and have some cofee. good way to run off people who want to be part of a group ... this makes it very hard and makes them not want to return . if y'all wanna box please go out side and get that crap out of here..... now back to the program .... i think your layout is what you want to make of it build it and it really dont matter what program to use as long as your comphy with it thats all that matters ............... BE HAPPY 😀


It's not about mood. It's about providing accurate information and not overly slanted views. That requires a correction to the record, lest someone else read it and take some action based on it. I'm not suggesting now, nor did I ever, that one software product is superior to another. But it isn't fair to readers to make statements to the contrary. Where there is a matter of personal taste, such as whether one program is easier to use, it should be clearly identified as such. And the fact that one product is freeware should be noted, but not as a factor that makes one product better or worse, because the perception of value is different to everyone. Cost is one factor to be evaluated, but not decisive.


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