# Wiring Mess



## Matison (12 mo ago)

I’m adding lots of LED lighting (100+) to my setup with streetlights and single LED’s inside and outside houses and stores, etc.. I have no problem with wiring things correctly to make everything light up, but due to many different sizes and gauges of the wires, the underside of my table looks like a rat's nest, and I only have about 20 lights installed so far. 

I am hooking resistors directly to terminal blocks, and then soldering the wire to the resistors. I have four terminal blocks in use so far. They hook directly to an old computer power supply, and I have a choice of four voltages to work with. The main problem that I have is distance. Most street lamps come with 10” to 12” very thin leads. These only reach the terminal for some of the lights, so I solder additional wires to them, and before you know it, there are wires going in every direction, and that makes it near impossible to troubleshoot a short or open connection when it occurs (and it will). 

My setup is L-shaped, and nothing goes straight and parallel with anything else, especially the streets and houses. It’s difficult to follow a grid underneath. Does anyone have a solution that works well for them to combat the wiring mess that often accompanies model trains?


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## Matison (12 mo ago)




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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Not sure if it will help you but here is a picture under my layout of a cluster of LED feeds. The layout is around the wall so things are linear and repetitive. There are building lights, street lights and turnout position indicator LED's, red and green, in trackside stands. All this totals to around 200 LED's. This picture shows power feeds in the gray sheathing landing on local euroblocks, black wires from streetlights; 4 color wires with resistors for the position indicator LED's. The resistors are connected to the euroblock terminals and the connection to the LED lead is covered with black heat shrink. This repeats all around the layout, power is brought to a local cluster of terminal blocks.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Just wait untill you add more stuff! Lol. I always start out wanting it neet, but that dosen't last long.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

By using open end clips, you can easily add to the cabling,
or if necessary, pull it down when you have to trace
trouble.

Don


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

I have a theory that the neatness of one's wiring is strongly correlated with the extent to which the layout was pre-planned (even if actually executed in stages), rather than just growing semi-organically as the vision and spirit moves you. My current layout _started_ with a general plan, but has had so many add-ons and revisions that the wiring is really a mess, organizationally. That's been exacerbated by my tendency to just grab what's handy in my junk box to get the current pressing job done, rather than taking the time to source the proper size of color-coded wiring and connectors to make things easier to deal with later. On the whole, it's worked for me so far, and if the rat's nest occasionally gets too undecipherable, I've generally just ripped out the offending section and rewired in a more rational manner.

Besides, as long as it works, it really doesn't matter how it looks under the table. After all, we're not building a cathedral here (reference: it has been said medieval stonemasons would carefully finish surfaces not visible from the outside, because G*d could see their work!), just something for us and our visitors to enjoy. YMMV . . .


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## cfurnari (Aug 2, 2020)

While it works now, at some point, you'll have to troubleshoot it or add new stuff. This is when you get confused with what is happening and what is what.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

cfurnari said:


> While it works now, at some point, you'll have to troubleshoot it or add new stuff. This is when you get confused with what is happening and what is what.





cfurnari said:


> While it works now, at some point, you'll have to troubleshoot it or add new stuff. This is when you get confused with what is happening and what is what.


Oh, I agree, but the question I raise is whether to invest the up-front time to try to come up with a bullet-proof wiring plan and subsequently exercise the discipline to follow it, all in an attempt to avoid the possibility of confusion (and messy wiring) later, or just go with the flow and neaten it up (if needed) later. So far, I've found it simpler and easier to follow the second path . . .

Thought for the day: it's been said that there are just two kinds of people -- those who categorize people into two kinds, and those who don't . . . 🤔


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

AmFlyer said:


> Not sure if it will help you but here is a picture under my layout of a cluster of LED feeds. The layout is around the wall so things are linear and repetitive. There are building lights, street lights and turnout position indicator LED's, red and green, in trackside stands. All this totals to around 200 LED's. This picture shows power feeds in the gray sheathing landing on local euroblocks, black wires from streetlights; 4 color wires with resistors for the position indicator LED's. The resistors are connected to the euroblock terminals and the connection to the LED lead is covered with black heat shrink. This repeats all around the layout, power is brought to a local cluster of terminal blocks.
> 
> View attachment 586584


This might work for me. If I bring the terminal connectors farther into the setup with heavier wiring, it will eliminate my having to route the smaller wires all over the place just to meet the connectors. I hate crawling under the table, and I don’t have the option of going behind any walls or partition, because I am very short for space. This is my first build, and expect hope to make fewer mistakes the second time around.


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

I have a bunch of 14 gauge wires as a result of rewiring my house a few years back. I put in 12/2, 20 amp this time.
I stripped the old 14 gauge wire, and started routing busses (+ and -) under the table. I used a nylon spacer to keep the wire off the table bottom, and put a screw with 2 large
















washers to capture the wire every few feet. I have not soldered anything to the busses yet, but I’m thinking that this may turn out pretty good. I think that I’ll use a 12 volt feed for everything, instead of the several different voltages that I was recently using, depending on what each particular lamp needed.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Matison said:


> I have a bunch of 14 gauge wires as a result of rewiring my house a few years back. I put in 12/2, 20 amp this time.
> I stripped the old 14 gauge wire, and started routing busses (+ and -) under the table. I used a nylon spacer to keep the wire off the table bottom, and put a screw with 2 large washers to capture the wire every few feet. I have not soldered anything to the busses yet, but I’m thinking that this may turn out pretty good. I think that I’ll use a 12 volt feed for everything, instead of the several different voltages that I was recently using, depending on what each particular lamp needed.


Not a bad concept, but I think I would have left insulation on the bus wires -- all that electrified bare copper makes me very nervous! -- and the thought of trying to solder wires to the thick (think, heat sink!) bus wires already fastened on the underside of the layout seems daunting. I think I would have instead used the (insulated) bus wires to connect several conveniently spaced connector blocks, into which the accessory power leads can just be screwed at need, no solder needed. I've so far only used one of those blocks, but since I installed it I've added three or four additional accessories, and every time it's been a breeze.

As to voltage, that's really a function of what each accessory needs, unless you're willing to keep the bus voltage up and add electronic components to convert as needed. Some of the voltage conversion boards from overseas are ridiculously cheap, even with shipping (a couple of bucks or so), but my most recent purchase will be two _months_ in transit! 🤯


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You may have figured it out. A trick is to locate the terminals for use of a neighborhood. Locate one in the center, keeping you service wires short. The nice part is you change the supply of each terminal as power demand increases.


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

T-Man said:


> You may have figured it out. A trick is to locate the terminals for use of a neighborhood. Locate one in the center, keeping you service wires short. The nice part is you change the supply of each terminal as power demand increases.


Can you elaborate a little T-man, would you still have a full bus going around the layout with a terminal board in each general area maybe? Is that what you mean; I still have to do my wiring as well?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

No problem. To clarify I use a separate feed for each terminal. O scale uses a lot of regular bulbs and the terminal boards offer flexibility. I can even supply one with multiple voltages. This is handy for accessories requiring different voltages. I separate the terminals and have flexibility on their feed. I can use one transformer for all or use one for each of them. A bus would only use one transformer. For example I have 5 terminals on a 12 by 12 table three of them have separate transformers.

The terminals I use are 12 across so six for common and six for positve. Plenty room to add another variable or fixed voltage.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Mine is being built now. The wires will be a mess, but semi orginized. I ran seprate feed buses for the tracks, and then 1 for the lights and switches, one for the accessories and one for a common ground. I may run out of power for the lighting, but easy enough to break off a section of terminals and add a new feed. Each bus hits 2 spaced out terminals on each peice of plywood. It will mot be pretty, but I shoyld be able to get a general area if I have a problem down the line.


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

I use to work in a electrical panel shop and I should be better at labeling and routing wires through ducts or trays.
Like the proverbial plumber, you never make your own stuff as you do for your business.
I am stapling color coded wires under the layout and using suitcase connectors to connect feed wires to the buss.
I use multiple Wago connectors at key locations to connect light wiring to buildings.
Mini connectors in or on buildings for lights that burnout.
There are better ways but I have to be cost conscience.
I am digging into my own purse for those things you never see, it has to be worth it.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Yeah, I suspect if you took a poll, there's more or less three different paths, at least one of which (or more than one!) were followed by most of us from time to time:

- First, if there was little layout planning done initially, and/or the 'plan' just evolved over time, the chances are wires were run only at need, and as track and accessories proliferated, wires were added where needed, splicing existing drops or running new wires. If eventually it all gets too much, all or a portion of the wiring mess gets ripped out and replaced.

- Second, if there _was_ significant pre-planning done, the wiring may have been pre-planned as well to allow rational expansion and anticipate need. Depending on the planner's foresight, the wiring plan may have been adequate for some period of time, but eventually it either proved inadequate or was ignored as the layout grew in complexity, resulting in the same types of problems cropping up as with the first option.

- Third, if the planner has in-depth experience and skill in layout building and wiring (or is wise enough to call on the experience and skills of fellow hobbyists!), the plan may be durable and prescient enough to anticipate most expansion/modification needs, and the planner may have been able to exercise enough discipline to stay within the parameters and methods established up-front for most of the layout's life.

Sooner or later, though, I think most of us have reached the point where scrapping the old layout and building a new one becomes the preferred path, and I have the sneaking suspicion that, under almost any layout being abandoned you'd find some significant degree of disorder and chaos.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Identify the wires. Same principle as labeling breakers in a breaker panel or 3 phase equipment.
Just write an identifier on some masking tape (i.e. main st lites) and wrap it around the wire like a flag on a pole, so you can read “the flag” identification. Fine point marker is advisable over ball point pen. Cheap, easy, you probably already own both materials needed.
If you have a row of houses/businesses, or more than one, label the branch & feeder drops as the street name/address. E.g. Chestnut St on the branch power drop to the street, and then 905, 907, 909, etc for the houses/business feeders.
A spaghetti bowl of wiring is only confusing if you’re left to guess what is what. So don’t leave yourself guessing.

Also, I like to use colored electrical tape to identify conductors & neutrals for various bus lines; lighting, motors, etc. I use the same color coding as on DCC decoders for uniformity. So a short wrap of white tape to identify 2V conductor and yellow to identify 5V conductor. Blue single “stripe” and a double “stripe” to identify neutrals.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

When using 20 gauge and higher I like to use 0.1" crimp connectors. Like these https://www.pololu.com/category/70/crimp-connector-housings (you can find the pins and housing cheaper but Pololu has a really nice crimp tool for $40 (a good crimp tool is important!). Having no solder connections makes everything easier! You can make them keyed by mixing male and female pins. I have thought about using those old hook cup holders to contain wires under the layout but realized I did not want hit my head on them, so the plastic ones are a lot safer! I also make a PowerPoint presentation of how the wiring works (sort of makes a standard so that all wiring is similar). But the use of crimp connectors was by far the best investment (Pololu sells a cheaper crimp tool also (and warns you about it's use) I bought the cheaper one, and a few months later bought the $40 one, save your money and don't cheap out!


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

Lemonhawk said:


> When using 20 gauge and higher I like to use 0.1" crimp connectors. Like these https://www.pololu.com/category/70/crimp-connector-housings (you can find the pins and housing cheaper but Pololu has a really nice crimp tool for $40 (a good crimp tool is important!). Having no solder connections makes everything easier! You can make them keyed by mixing male and female pins. I have thought about using those old hook cup holders to contain wires under the layout but realized I did not want hit my head on them, so the plastic ones are a lot safer! I also make a PowerPoint presentation of how the wiring works (sort of makes a standard so that all wiring is similar). But the use of crimp connectors was by far the best investment (Pololu sells a cheaper crimp tool also (and warns you about it's use) I bought the cheaper one, and a few months later bought the $40 one, save your money and don't cheap out!


One of my biggest issues with wiring is in dealing with the micro-sized wires that come with street lamps, etc…
Almost every time that I try stripping the insulation, the wire breaks. I even have a special stripper for small wires, but many of the wires that I have to deal with are too small for it, so I have to tilt the stripper to try to catch the wire on the end of the blade. Many times, the wire breaks.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The way the crimps work is that the top of the pins crimps the insulation also to provide some strain relief! As to a stripper for those fine wires, sometimes you can just use your fingernails. I have also used your technique of tilting the strippers. I now us a V type stripper were the wire is inserted into the nose rather than the side and those seem to be better at those fine wires!


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Matison said:


> One of my biggest issues with wiring is in dealing with the micro-sized wires that come with street lamps, etc…
> Almost every time that I try stripping the insulation, the wire breaks. I even have a special stripper for small wires, but many of the wires that I have to deal with are too small for it, so I have to tilt the stripper to try to catch the wire on the end of the blade. Many times, the wire breaks.


Yeah, I run into that a lot also, particularly with a batch of speaker wire I bought a while back, and I usually find it to be from a combination of tough insulation and fragile, usually multi-strand, wire. Wire strippers can help, but I also found that first lightly rolling the wire between the edge of an Xacto-type blade and a flat surface, gently scoring the insulation around the wire, makes insulation removal a lot easier (and more successful) regardless of the method employed.

I also like the idea of solderless crimp connectors. When I need to splice into an existing wire, I usually just cut that wire (offsetting the cuts if more than one conductor, to minimize the chances of a subsequent short), strip as needed, and join the cut ends and the connecting wire using "terminal butt splices", available at any hardware store. The only problem I've encountered using them is when the size of the wires being joined are grossly different, and in that case care needs to be taken to twine or at least overlap the wires, and to thoroughly crimp the connector in order to mechanically secure all the wires (be sure to always tug to test, and redo if not secure).


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

Matison said:


> One of my biggest issues with wiring is in dealing with the micro-sized wires that come with street lamps, etc…
> Almost every time that I try stripping the insulation, the wire breaks......


Those tiny wires, I light with a bic lighter quickly, just for a second before it ignites, then using my fingers, qiuckly pull on the wire jacket. Do it quickly and you wont get burned and the copper in the wire will not be scored. Works for me.


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