# how to make a whistle button?



## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

anyone have any idea on how to make a whistle button to trigger a whistle in a 50s whistling tender? 




this dude sent me lol



Reckers said:


> Doug, the best thing you can do is start a new thread in the O gauge section and ask for help. There are several guys there who love to make stuff, adapt things, and in general, love a challenge. Tell them I sent you and they'll burst out laughing at you! Best wishes and give them a shot at setting you up!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Doug for 30bucks you can get a 1033 transformer with a whistle button. There is also a sound button that does the same thing but they see you coming and want 12. 

Build? I never have but have studied. You need diodes. The best suggestion is to go to Classic toy trains and search there. I came up with a few diagrams . Still, I think the transformer is the best way out.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

i've come to the conclusion that this gray transformer just doesn't put out enough watts to work for what i want it to work for. i dunno what the factory watts are.

if there is a significant difference in watts between the one you're talking about and the one i have, i may consider it. i just hate to buy one if it's not the problem....


just about all my old ac locos with smoke/light trip the transformer when used with this tender. however all the newer stuff with a can motor doesn't trip it and i can use my whistling tender and when i push the button the train actually speeds up. so i'm under the conclusion the old ac trains and the tender are pulling to many amps. i can hook up my marx ac controller and last night you told me dc engaged the whistling tender so i hooked up the marx ac controller and when the engine was running i held one dc terminal on the track clip and tapped the other dc terminal and sure enough the whistle worked. 

i just don't wanna buy this controller you speak of and it not have enough amps.

"edit" not watts maybe amps? the marx actually has less watts than the lionel.. i dunno, maybe it's the breaker in the gray lionel controller i have?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

THe 1033 is rated at 90 watts. If you build one button the diodes will cost you at least 8 bucks.
I say run your trains for now and forget the tender. If you find a button for a good price get it. I thinking 90 watts is a good upgrade, the one you have is 45 which is minimal especially for a train that has not worked for years. They need to be run. A small track would be better. I don't think you have given me one engine number yet. You are dealing with a few problem here. Power old trains and a whistle relay. Get the track cleaned up and see the improvement from running them on a daily basis. If you get serious about this you will want to get a larger transformer and that will cost more than 30 bucks. My opinion is enjoy them for now.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

sorry, you haven't really asked for a engine number. the engine is 2055. i believe, however all of the old engines i have that have ac motors do trip the transformer.the engines i have with a ac converter board and dc can motors actually speed up when i push the whistle button and the whistling tender works fine. the whistle does shut off. it just takes a second sometimes. usually by this time when one of engines with a ac motor is running it has tripped the breaker in the controller. i did realise that when disconecting the smoke unit the engine will run and the tender will work. rite now i have the engine wired with no relay, i have the coil soldered to the right side brush along with the smoke unit and light and the left side brush is going to the middle roller pickups. this seems to work fine. and when i took my old texas "1055" special apart it was wired the same way actually lol

i understand you say to just run them and enjoy them. however i just like all my stuff to work rite. lol 

heres a link to a slideshow of what i have in ac. and again, anything in the slideshow that has a ac motor and smoke unit trips the breaker in the controller when the whistle button is pushed. the whistle doesn't "stick" anymore. sometimes for a second or 2 and that's it. however with one of my black ac controllers the whistle stays on all the time. i'm thinking theres a short in that controller it's the only one that makes the whistle stay on all the time. 

i also realised the black marx controller does have a reset on the side however it never trips. but it doesn't have a built in button for a whistle.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

i'm uploading a few videos, check back next post.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

ok here you go, i thought i had a video of it behind the diesel to just for a test. it works really good behind it, basically like it's supposed to. are you saying i should get a 1033 transformer and a whistle button? or is it built into the 1033? i have 3 ac transformers now. a older marx, the black one in the video "whistle stays on all the time with it" and the grey one in the video... heres a video of what's happening. sorry i didn't get it behind the 1055 texas special. the black steam locos are a marx 1666 and a lionel 2055. 

if i disconect the smoke unit in the 2055 with the transformer on medium power the whistle will work when being towed by it if i turn it up any higher it trips it like usual. the smoke unit works, not really well though. i'm pretty sure it's not shorting out either. i'm guessing these older locos just pull to many watts for this transformer?

i been messing with trains for years, but never messed with any of these old whistling tenders. my marx 1998 trips the transformer as well just by itself. but it don't trip the black one or the marx transformer that's not in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s7efohJLJM


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

First, the 1033 has a button. Your collection is a lot of 80's vintage . The gray transformer is small in power like your black 45 watt. I do have a mechanical whistle that runs (from that era)but I think it has an electronic board. 
Your postwar is giving you problems. The 2055 is a big engine.you are under powered . The track is clean and in good condition. I need to look at the video again with sound. You may want to go with a CW-80 transformer since most of your trains are modern. Problems occur when you have an older transformer running newer trains. I need to research my notes on what I have.
Two questions the 6466 tender has a mechanical relay correct?
Isn't the 8602 a DC loco without the electronic reverse? Out of curiosity.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I have the CW-80 and am generally happy with it for my small-ish layout. Bought on ebay some months back for around $60 (?) ... cheaper on ebay now, I think.

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Doug, I'd really go for beefing up that transformer as a first step. You can get older trannies with the whistle lever on them from Ebay at a very reasonable price. I'd go for as many amps as possible, 100 amp minimum. You can't go wrong having an abundance of power to draw from.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

By the way, T-Man....I gave Doug a new name. " Doug Dos Equis"!!! when he drinks beer, he drinks....beer.


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## Rocky Mountian (May 17, 2010)

[QUOTE
=T-Man;31587]First, the 1033 has a button. Your collection is a lot of 80's vintage . The gray transformer is small in power like your black 45 watt. I do have a mechanical whistle that runs (from that era)but I think it has an electronic board. 
Your postwar is giving you problems. The 2055 is a big engine.you are under powered . The track is clean and in good condition. I need to look at the video again with sound. You may want to go with a CW-80 transformer since most of your trains are modern. Problems occur when you have an older transformer running newer trains. I need to research my notes on what I have.
Two questions the 6466 tender has a mechanical relay correct?
Isn't the 8602 a DC loco without the electronic reverse? Out of curiosity.[/QUOTE]

This one also slows down when the whistle is blowen. I sure it needs a good going over.

From the owners manual I think 1953 is the year also the transformer is that old too. I repaired it, new cord and one side of the duel control was unsolderd.
My queston is and I don't know the watts duel control with the whistle lever do they loose power after all those years. The volts are good 20 I don't know the watts it putting out now
I'm in NM and the trains in OK but will be there this weekend and I will take some pictures of the transformer and try to post there or when I get back. I have very little service there. ( internet)


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

At this point I don't have an explanation for the slow down.It must be like a drain or a short.

Transformers generally work or they don't. SOme have different voltages so if one section goes bad it my effect the total output. You need to talk specifics because they vary so much.

I made a diagram for the whistle . note everthing depends on the ground. A rusty frame won't help.










Most of the information I got was from CCT forum on whistle button making. I can give you links but for the most part you are on your own. From experience on this forum I know my limitations I can assist, but I am still learning too.

I do know the relay works with a DC pulse. The voltage is around 3 to start. That gets everthing started then it goes down to 1.5 volts DC THen is slowly drowns out. I have collected a number of whistle buttons and some have a heated coil which you just can't buy.I am not at the point where I can tell you how to make one and ensure it will work. The same for relays. They either work or don't. Replace as needed. Often it is a connection or problem that is wrong or just dirty.


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## Rocky Mountian (May 17, 2010)

Gee an electral diagram that I can figger out.
The AC-DC thing is what gets me don't they both pick up on the same center rail?
I hate not knowing what I think I should know allready!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Remember, the relay responds to DC. It all has to do with the disc at the end of the coil. Selenium I think. It is what they made bridge rectifiers with in the early days. Yes they can both travel through the same rails.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Your video demonstrates the problem. I need to know what is in that tender and the engines. See I don't know everything Heck I am not even sure you are running AC at this point. That's what I mean by description Type of motor what kind of e unit and relays. Mechanical electronic AC DC. You have to show everthing for me to understand what you are dealing with. I understand this is not always easy.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

i don't own any 027 dc locomotives. everthing in the video was ac, however a couple do have dc can motors and ac to dc converter boards. the video should have sound btw. the 2055, 1055, marx 1666, u/p 1998, and another loco are all postwar 1950s locos. 

usually the only stuff i have a big problem with are the open ac motors, idk the real name.


the tender has a relay just like the one in the thread that i posted in. the e unit/relay is engaged by dc pulse when it's closed it sends ac current to the ac whistle motor. i have no idea if a ac motor can run dc? i don't think so? either way as stated above everything is running ac.

i do know if you try to run a dc motor on a ac powerpack it just buzz's i tryed it when i was younger


i'll look into upgrading the transformer, thanks everyone.


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## Rocky Mountian (May 17, 2010)

Ok that makes sence dc trigers the relay only than ac runs the whistle motor.

Do I get it??


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

Rocky Mountian said:


> Ok that makes sence dc trigers the relay only than ac runs the whistle motor.
> 
> Do I get it??



yes, this is how it works.

don't ask me to explain the theory though, i have no idea how dc current and ac current travel through the same rail and pick up diffrent, but they do lol


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## Rocky Mountian (May 17, 2010)

x_doug_x said:


> yes, this is how it works.
> 
> don't ask me to explain the theory though, i have no idea how dc current and ac current travel through the same rail and pick up diffrent, but they do lol


 Thats what baffles me too.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

Rocky Mountian said:


> Thats what baffles me too.



you can do a test like i did yesterday, when t-man told me that the whistle was operated from a dc pulse, i got one of my ho dc transformers, held one wire to one side of the track clip and tapped the other side with the engine running and the whistle in the tender blew. i just dunno how to make it pulse without doing it manually with my hand lol


don't turn the dc transformer up too high, it could blow something out.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Doug, can't you just buy a #167 postwar Lionel whistle controller button 

Info: http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=167
Auctions: http://toys.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_n...&_osacat=4146&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

i'll either buy a whistle button or a controller with a whistle. this has been established lol. i was just telling him a test he could do since he wanted to learn.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The older whistle buttons are not reccommended for the new electronics. The DC is unregulated in the older stuff, direction wise. They work DC either way, with the new stuff the red wire is all important. When I found out about the 80's collection my suggesdtion went from a 1033 to the CW 80.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

T-Man said:


> The older whistle buttons are not reccommended for the new electronics. The DC is unregulated in the older stuff, direction wise. They work DC either way, with the new stuff the red wire is all important. When I found out about the 80's collection my suggesdtion went from a 1033 to the CW 80.


i don't have nor run much of the items from 80s, mostly just the stuff from the 50s.
the marx 1666
lionel 1055
lionel 2055 with whistling tender.
marx 1998

all these items are between 1955-1965

the only 80s era locos i have and plan on running is the 2-4-0 switcher and the 2-6-4 u/p

the other 2-4-0 and the lionel 2-4-2 i'm prob. giving away to my father this weekend.



2055 1953 - 1955	Santa Fe Hudson 4-6-4 Steam Locomotive 
1055 lionel texas special was 1959-1960
The 666 and 1666 locomotives were produced from 1955 through 1974
marx 1998 u/p in 1956 only, came with a dummy unit " i got the set with dummy unit"


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## Rocky Mountian (May 17, 2010)

I can't post pics crappy internet I cleaned and lubed the whistle tender it still slowed way down, the good thing is it was a bad contact in the transformer cleaned that up works great.

T-Man the transformer is 190 watt.


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