# ERR by 3rd Rail site now accepting orders for tmcc boards



## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Scott Mann now has his 3rd Rail ERR (tmcc boards) website functioning. Here is the link for those of you needing it.
http://www.3rdrail.com/err-3rdrail/index.html
*Remember, now's our time to support Scott who's supporting ERR tmcc and us during our time of need.* :sold::sold:


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## Guest (May 19, 2018)

Scott stepped up at a time when the O-Gauge hobby most needed his help. This move is huge for the hobby. 

I think he will be swamped with orders for the ERR products. Good for him and good for us all. I bet our GRJ was first in line.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Already queued up for a bunch of boards.


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## Guest (May 20, 2018)

I am not surprised, John.

You never realize how much you appreciate the ability to convert or repair TMCC products until it looked like for a brief time all was lost. Many thanks to Scott for stepping up to the plate and hitting a grand slam.

The hobby in general is much relieved this weekend.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Kind of sounds Scott is doesn't plan on keeping anything in stock. Made to order and that's it. Am I reading all of Scott's post on the other forum correctly?


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## c.midland (Sep 22, 2015)

From what I've gathered over the years, Mr. Mann likes to hedge his bets, which is good, but he can come off a little abrasive doing it. I think on every pre-order he makes it clear that the price may go up and if you do pre-order, and then not pay when the item comes in, you can't purchase from him again. 

I don't think He's going to produce 1000 if he only has orders for 850 of a given ERR board. He's going to order 850, then open up pre-orders again, then another wait for the board to arrive. If a dealer orders more than they have customers for that's alright, but 3rd. Rail isn't going to be stuck with the inventory. Again, not bad business. It's BTO, and I don't blame Him.


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## Guest (May 20, 2018)

Remember, he uses these boards for his products. I believe he will have a balanced inventory to suit his needs and those customers who will buy just boards. He must have some "track" record as to what Lionel sales were of these products. He is not going into this with a blind eye.

I would not fret at this point.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Scott's list may appear long but there are really only 5 different pieces of hardware. All the motor drivers use a R4LC. Then there is the Cruise Commander, Cruise M (one versions fits all), Railsounds, and AC-DC Commander. The DC Commander is just an AC Commander with an added full wave bridge. I believe thats all what he is showing now.
A possible big plus for him is he might be able to customize the Railsounds for the engines he builds. I know he has gotten custom vs generic sounds for some of his engines like his SP Daylight.
It is what it is. Not worth fretting over it.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

c.midland said:


> From what I've gathered over the years, Mr. Mann likes to hedge his bets, which is good, but he can come off a little abrasive doing it. I think on every pre-order he makes it clear that the price may go up and if you do pre-order, and then not pay when the item comes in, you can't purchase from him again.
> 
> I don't think He's going to produce 1000 if he only has orders for 850 of a given ERR board. He's going to order 850, then open up pre-orders again, then another wait for the board to arrive. If a dealer orders more than they have customers for that's alright, but 3rd. Rail isn't going to be stuck with the inventory. Again, not bad business. It's BTO, and I don't blame Him.


Actually, I don't think that will be the model at all. I'm sure he wants to get a first-time buy in, and he certainly wants to know what quantities folks will buy. I'll bet money that he'll be stocking the boards once the initial smoke settles. After all, he has to have the boards for his production! The only issue is packaging for most of the products, at least the Cruise Commanders and the RailSounds Commanders. The AC and DC Commander and the Cruise Commander M may be a different thing, but I'll be surprised if he has no stock of any kind. Parts are not like $2,000 locomotives.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I certainly hope this works out for all of you.


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## TexasSP (Sep 8, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, I don't think that will be the model at all. I'm sure he wants to get a first-time buy in, and he certainly wants to know what quantities folks will buy. I'll bet money that he'll be stocking the boards once the initial smoke settles. After all, he has to have the boards for his production! The only issue is packaging for most of the products, at least the Cruise Commanders and the RailSounds Commanders. The AC and DC Commander and the Cruise Commander M may be a different thing, but I'll be surprised if he has no stock of any kind. Parts are not like $2,000 locomotives.


You're right, it's a not a business model that would be smart for this product line which is nothing like the high end loco and passenger car lines Scott and 3rd rail are known for.

Gauging initial interest is a smart move. Scott is obviously moving into this cautiously. I would bet he will inflate the number some past the total of preorders he receives, but not by a large margin.

The biggest issue for these boards is not the manufacture itself, modern pick and place board assembly machines are simply amazing, but the source for required components. Hopefully Scott is able to find ways to find alternatives and update the boards.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm sure he'll carry some stock, after all, he has his own products to supply. I'm currently ordering a new supply of boards, and I'm running into the same issues with parts, but my problem is they're simply not available, long lead times!


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

Would be nice if they could make the boards the same size as the mini commander boards. Need some for my S gauge stuff.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm hoping that they revive a few more of the ERR products. I'd love to see the Mini Commander II, the Mini Commander ACC, and the Cruise Commander Lite for three that I know I'll miss.


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## Guest (May 21, 2018)

I think that if the initial orders are robust, Scott will broaden the offerings.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

This from that other Forum on John's attempt to get a ERR only subforum. Sorry if this should be posted somewhere else.



> As said above....I will meet with the parties involved to see if they feel it would be of benefit to have a separate ERR thread. As stated above, their are two sides to this story and some things to consider. Both Scott and Lionel at this point are early on in how this will work out so I will report back after meeting with them.


Ok, why would it matter? Who cares what 3rdrail and Lionel would think?? Another reason the advertisers have to much control over that forum. The thread is no locked, oh boy.


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## Guest (May 22, 2018)

Thank goodness we don't have those issues here, Gary.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Brian, is it time to lock this thread?


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

Please don't be a meany John.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

superwarp1 said:


> ...
> Ok, why would it matter? Who cares what 3rdrail and Lionel would think?? Another reason the advertisers have to much control over that forum. The thread is no locked, oh boy.


Few folks realized the extent of the impact of bringing toy train advertisers and sponsors en masse to a toy train online forum. As the old saying goes... the devil is ALWAYS in the details. 

I can see checking with Scott Mann just as a courtesy since his company will be distributing the product. But to be quite honest, Scott appears that he'd likely defer that type of decision to folks like GRJ who have the technical expertise to do what's correct. And since GRJ initiated the request, I suspect Scott would support somebody of John's caliber. Scott is the "executive" here, who is likely to seek technical advice to do the right thing. That's my hunch... I have no inside information beyond that.

Lionel, on the other hand, was ready to put the ERR technology out to pasture without any inkling (or care) of the true impact to those who DIY'ers who would find the ERR kits useful. So why worry about what they think about it now?  I suppose if I were being purely objective, I'd set my dislike of Lionel's execs aside... and say, perhaps they should weigh in if they have something down the road that's gonna make ERR a non-player... in which case, then why make a big deal out of starting a new ERR sub-forum? But if that were truly a likely scenario, then why would Lionel have made the ERR deal with Scott in the first place to keep ERR alive?  That would only add insult to injury -- not to mention ruin ANY credibility they have remaining with their enthusiasts (and perhaps even Lionel fanboys), if Lionel has plans to announce something that makes ERR a non-starter by the time Scott gets new product manufactured. That would just be bad business -- not to mention poor PR (although the latter would not be all that surprising coming from Lionel's current executive team).

Bottom line... the Lee Iacoca approach seems to apply on this one: namely, lead... follow... or get out of the way. Of course, I'd want to take the leader's approach! OGR has the _opportunity_ to lead here and make the ERR solution viable by supporting Scott Mann's early efforts to take on the ERR product set. As somebody posted on the OGR ERR sub-forum thread, "Make It Happen". To which the response was a feeble smack on the wrist answer of, "if and only if Lionel and 3rd Rail" want it to happen. So OGR is politically playing the role of industry "follower" -- not a "leader". Nowadays, I get the impression OGR isn't gonna even BREATHE without asking permission from Lionel first.  

WOW!!! What a difference from the OGR of many, many years ago. All because they're now heavily relying on advertiser and sponsorship dollars and don't want to do ANYTHING that puts those dollars at risk. 

David


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## Guest (May 22, 2018)

Well stated, David.

It is never a good business principle to stomp on the feet of customers. It is customers who purchase products and partake in other offerings. Customers allow for the selling of advertising that yields revenue. A lessening of a customer base typically means less income. So why would any smart business person want to do anything that would upset customers????? The operative word here is smart.

The protection of advertisers verses customers getting the straight story can be a delicate balance. However, one must not forget that if the customer gets the back seat, sooner or later there is a cost to this approach. Accountants refer to this as to when the lines cross.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)




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## Guest (May 22, 2018)

John, indeed, a picture is worth 1,000 words. Very funny!!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know where that sign is from, but I do remember there was a chicken packing company that had that same wording on it's sign at it's front door. Apparently the CEO really meant it, an unusual place.


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## Matt_GNo27 (Feb 7, 2016)

superwarp1 said:


> This from that other Forum on John's attempt to get a ERR only subforum. Sorry if this should be posted somewhere else. _[snip]_
> Ok, why would it matter? Who cares what 3rdrail and Lionel would think?? Another reason the advertisers have to much control over that forum. The thread is no locked, oh boy.


Gary, I share your befuddlement.

—Matt


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Now that I've vented. 

John,

Do you have early pricing on the chuff Gen and the super chuffer? Same, more, less, than your last batch?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My current plan it to hold to the same price. Obviously, until I actually get a quote from the new assembly house, that is only a plan, not a promise!  I do expect it not to change, but then I expected sunshine yesterday and I got rain!


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> My current plan it to hold to the same price. Obviously, until I actually get a quote from the new assembly house, that is only a plan, not a promise!  I do expect it not to change, but then I expected sunshine yesterday and I got rain!


I'm guessing the same time frame as 3rdrail? Oct?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I should have them in a couple of months if all goes well. I'm still waiting for the quote from the assembly house, I may have to prod them again. Of course, it's an 8,000 mile prod as they're in China!


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