# Lionel prewar 224E locomotive and 2224W tender...



## Boston&Maine

Here are some teaser pictures of my new acquisition


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## T-Man

That tender does look good. My policy is not to run an engine right off. I always clean it first. If I paid more then ten for it. I find it scary to put power to something not checked first. Almost always they do not run at first.
Great looking pieces!:thumbsup:


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## Boston&Maine

*The Good, The Bad, and the Not so Ugly Anymore*

*The Good:* I jumped the e-unit on the locomotive motor and it runs 

*The Bad:* I had to jump the e-unit to get the locomotive to run... Get this, somehow the e-unit drum shrunk!? Yea, I have no idea, but it is all shriveled up 

*The Not so Ugly Anymore:* I cleaned up the tender shell and it looks great now... I will get pictures up here once it is all back together, which I hope will be before Saturday


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## Big Ed

Boston&Maine said:


> *The Good:* I jumped the e-unit on the locomotive motor and it runs
> 
> *The Bad:* I had to jump the e-unit to get the locomotive to run... Get this, somehow the e-unit drum shrunk!? Yea, I have no idea, but it is all shriveled up
> 
> *The Not so Ugly Anymore:* I cleaned up the tender shell and it looks great now... I will get pictures up here once it is all back together, which I hope will be before Saturday


Sweet find! :thumbsup: I am jealous.

Is that the die cast tender or plastic?

Wow do you know how much the gun metal tender is worth?


Your e unit drum shrank?:laugh:


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## Boston&Maine

big ed said:


> Sweet find! :thumbsup: I am jealous.
> 
> Is that the die cast tender or plastic?
> 
> Wow do you know how much the gun metal tender is worth?
> 
> 
> Your e unit drum shrank?:laugh:


The tender shell is diecast, and it is black, not gunmetal... Yes, the e-unit drum is suffering from shrinkage... I will get pictures up soon!


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## Boston&Maine

Um, yea :dunno:

















One of the metal contacts is also snapped off, so it looks like I will be getting a "new" unit off eBay... They are only like $10 to $15...


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## Big Ed

Looks like someone deep fried it with some Kentucky fried chicken.:laugh:

Send it to reckers he would maybe like to run it through his blender.


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## RichT

That looks like all the magic smoke has leaked out.


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## Big Ed

RichT said:


> That looks like all the magic smoke has leaked out.


Yes it looks that at least one time it smoked.

I guess even reckers doesn't want it for a blender experiment!:laugh:


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## T-Man

All I can say is that my 1666 sort of shrank. The metal pieces fell off and the barrel is too short to work.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> All I can say is that my 1666 sort of shrank. The metal pieces fell off and the barrel is too short to work.



I wonder what causes them to shrink?
Heat?
Moisture?
Just from the 1940's units?
Cheap material because of the war?

Or just plain old age?


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## T-Man

I think it was attic heat. Next to it, is agood one. I finished the 224 rewire of the e unit and started running the engine. I am cleaning up the other parts. It may be ready in the near future.


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## Boston&Maine

Boston&Maine said:


> Here are some teaser pictures of my new acquisition


I finished up the tender... I am not going to have it for long; I have other plans... Diecast tenders are overrated anyways


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## Reckers

big ed said:


> Looks like someone deep fried it with some Kentucky fried chicken.:laugh:
> 
> Send it to reckers he would maybe like to run it through his blender.


Please...we don't fry train parts in KY. We saute them. As for the blender, I'm saving it for your next orphan HO. I just realized I could save on postage by giving it a quick trip through the blender and then shipping it to you:laugh: in a matchbox!


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## Big Ed

What did you do B&M?

Just clean it? Looks good.:thumbsup:
or repainted? if so how did you put the lettering on?

I like the die cast tenders why do you say they are overrated?


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## Reckers

That e unit is really interesting. I know the plastic in auto dashboards used to split; the explanation was that the ultraviolet in the sunlight caused it to break down, emitting some of it's components as gasses when the heat built up. The result was contraction that caused splitting. I'm guessing the attic heat did the same thing. What I don't understand is why a different kind of plastic was used for the one part. OR....perhaps it was a very slow reaction to an adhesive that secured the copper to the drum? OR...someone used a lubricant on a sticky e-unit, and the lubricant broke down the plastic? I've heard of guys attempting to oil the metal plungers in e units....*innocent look*


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## Boston&Maine

big ed said:


> What did you do B&M?
> 
> Just clean it? Looks good.:thumbsup:
> or repainted? if so how did you put the lettering on?
> 
> I like the die cast tenders why do you say they are overrated?


I just cleaned it... Also, I was being sarcastic when I said diecast tenders are overrated


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## tjcruiser

The tender looks great ... nice satin shine.

Are any of you guys using Armor-All on black Lionel finishes (painted plastic or metal)? I've been using it on my 249 locos and tenders, and it really yields a nice luster. However, I'm wondering if there's a down side ... am I / will it damage the paint or plastic at all?


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## Reckers

I'd think it would be a good product; it seems to have been designed specifically for preserving plastics.


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## Boston&Maine

tjcruiser said:


> The tender looks great ... nice satin shine.
> 
> Are any of you guys using Armor-All on black Lionel finishes (painted plastic or metal)? I've been using it on my 249 locos and tenders, and it really yields a nice luster. However, I'm wondering if there's a down side ... am I / will it damage the paint or plastic at all?


I read up on using Armor All products a couple of weeks ago... Are you using the interior or exterior ones? The interior ones have silicone in them, so if you use them on your trains you will not be able to repaint them or anything as the paint will not stick...

I simply use Lionel lubricant and wipe my trains down with that... This particular tender was just washed with dish soap, but I used the lube on my 685 in my other thread...


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## tjcruiser

Hey Reckers, B&M, etc.

I guess I'll stick with the Armor-All on plastic, for now. Good point about "future paint" adhesion.

The orange stripes on my new (oooold!) #249 loco are pretty trashes. I'm gonna stop at the craft store tomorrow and see if I can find a near match. If I do, I'll paint this BEFORE applying any Armor-All to the rest of the "beast".

(I've been using the interior stuff, by the way ... it certainly does add some luster.)


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## T-Man

For craft paint buy a bunch near the color. mix different swatches, on some carboard till it is close and paint.

Nice tender! I don't have anything close to that.

Boy o Boy I can use my solder iron tomorrow!! Good Night!


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## dirkwood

Boston&Maine said:


> Here are some teaser pictures of my new acquisition


I found the same train loco 224E with the wagons model no: 0-2689W and 2654.I am not a train enthousiast just wonder if they are worth anything.Thanks


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## servoguy

If it were mine, I would repair the E unit. It is not difficult and the parts are cheap.

It looks like the unit had contact spring get weak and that resulted in a high resistance contact which resulted in a lot more heat than the drum was designed for.


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## dirkwood

servoguy said:


> If it were mine, I would repair the E unit. It is not difficult and the parts are cheap.
> 
> It looks like the unit had contact spring get weak and that resulted in a high resistance contact which resulted in a lot more heat than the drum was designed for.


If they are worth anything I would like to sell them.


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## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> If it were mine, I would repair the E unit. It is not difficult and the parts are cheap.
> 
> It looks like the unit had contact spring get weak and that resulted in a high resistance contact which resulted in a lot more heat than the drum was designed for.


Look at the date of the post, though B&M looks as if he logs in everyday, he never says anything.
I think he fixed it last year.



dirkwood said:


> If they are worth anything I would like to sell them.


First you have to answer is it a metal or plastic body. Also what color? They came as gunmetal too.
Better yet, also post some good pictures of what you have so we can see the condition of them.


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## dirkwood

big ed said:


> Look at the date of the post, though B&M looks as if he logs in everyday, he never says anything.
> I think he fixed it last year.
> 
> 
> First you have to answer is it a metal or plastic body. Also what color? They came as gunmetal too.
> Better yet, also post some good pictures of what you have so we can see the condition of them.


I am on the road at the moment and have no camera available but will be back home Wednesday and post some pictures on here.They are not metal.The loco looks like a sort of black cast iron and feels heavy.It looks exactly as the picture of B&M and if I take my pictures they will not look any different.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the "black cast iron" is post metal, and we consider those metal. 

I'll have to beg to differ on your pictures being EXACTLY like B&M's pictures. The whole point of the pictures is to see the condition of your set.


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## dirkwood

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, the "black cast iron" is post metal, and we consider those metal.
> 
> I'll have to beg to differ on your pictures being EXACTLY like B&M's pictures. The whole point of the pictures is to see the condition of your set.


I understand and will try the best I can...


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## Big Ed

I found the same train loco 224E with the wagons model no: 0-2689W and 2654.I am not a train enthousiast just wonder if they are worth anything.Thanks 


dirkwood said:


> I understand and will try the best I can...



The 2654 tank car made from 38-42 3 variations,
A- Aluminum, Sunoco Excellent shape $60
B- Orange, Shell $60
C- Light gray, Sunoco $70
The 224E made 38-42 too. 4 variations,
You must have A Black diecast but is listed with a 2224 tender (coal car)
Excellent shape $290
This is from the 2010 Greensburg's guide.
Just note that those prices are for in mint condition.

You say yours look exactly like these pictures?
The tender you list (2689w) looks a lot different then the 2224 that is shown here, right?
Unless you have 2 tenders? 

Post some good pictures when you get the chance.

This is a 2689w. 
It is a lot different then the one shown here, up top.


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## dirkwood

big ed said:


> I found the same train loco 224E with the wagons model no: 0-2689W and 2654.I am not a train enthousiast just wonder if they are worth anything.Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> The 2654 tank car made from 38-42 3 variations,
> A- Aluminum, Sunoco Excellent shape $60
> B- Orange, Shell $60
> C- Light gray, Sunoco $70
> The 224E made 38-42 too. 4 variations,
> You must have A Black diecast but is listed with a 2224 tender (coal car)
> Excellent shape $290
> This is from the 2010 Greensburg's guide.
> Just note that those prices are for in mint condition.
> 
> You say yours look exactly like these pictures?
> The tender you list (2689w) looks a lot different then the 2224 that is shown here, right?
> Unless you have 2 tenders?
> 
> Post some good pictures when you get the chance.
> 
> This is a 2689w.
> It is a lot different then the one shown here, up top.
> 
> View attachment 11858


Don’t be confused as it is simple.
I said it looks the same underneath the loco 224E and it does.... so my saying was mend for the loco only.
I have nothing to do with the other pictures shown there in that post
I am not an train enthusiast but understand now that 0-2689W is what you call a tender.
The one I have does not look like a coal wagon…just a gray wagon with lionel signs name tags on both sides and is exactly like the one you attached.
The tank car 2654 looks also like you mentioned the Light gray, Sunoco 
Except the tender all look in GOOD condition but used.
From the tender the back wheel set came of but still have them and those will be easy to attach again.
Thanks for given me an idea of what it is worth.
Next week I will post some pics the best I can.


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## Big Ed

dirkwood said:


> Don’t be confused as it is simple.
> I said it looks the same underneath the loco 224E and it does.... so my saying was mend for the loco only.
> I have nothing to do with the other pictures shown there in that post
> I am not an train enthusiast but understand now that 0-2689W is what you call a tender.
> The one I have does not look like a coal wagon…just a gray wagon with lionel signs name tags on both sides and is exactly like the one you attached.
> The tank car 2654 looks also like you mentioned the Light gray, Sunoco
> Except the tender all look in GOOD condition but used.
> From the tender the back wheel set came of but still have them and those will be easy to attach again.
> Thanks for given me an idea of what it is worth.
> Next week I will post some pics the best I can.



Some only know it as a coal car, that is why I add that.
It saves from giving an answer on what is a tender.

You have the gunmetal tender then, there is no guide that I know of that gives a price just for the tender.
They only list them as a set engine & tender together.

Type A black with a die-cast 2224 tender in good shape is listed at $155.
That is good shape. Compared to $290 in X shape.

Those prices are not rock solid, I have seen stuff sell for way over and way under the guides prices. It all depends on who is buying and it's condition.


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## dirkwood

*sorry*

I have to apologize for the long wait to answer back.
All sorts of things happened here at my end and have been to bussy.
On top of that ...my computer died on me.
lets see if I can keep my promise and show some pic on here of what I have.
Greetz,AD


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## servoguy

The tender shown in your picture is not a coal tender, but an oil tender. Back in the steam era, some railroads burned oil instead of coal. The Santa Fe and Southern Pacific are two examples.
Bruce Baker


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## plandis

servoguy said:


> The tender shown in your picture is not a coal tender, but an oil tender. Back in the steam era, some railroads burned oil instead of coal. The Santa Fe and Southern Pacific are two examples.
> Bruce Baker


did they call that a "scout"?


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## plandis

those are nice pieces. I am just picking up on this thread. Bid Ed is on target about the prices going over and under the Greenberg's guides. I have a couple sets of these 224E/tender combo's. I am partial to them because they were my Dads and I grew up with the 2600 series cars behind the Prairie. 
about the Eunit? I have seen "some" contact cleaners actually damage/shrink/dissolve some plastics. with prolonged attic heat, you never know. do you still have them and what would you like for them?


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## dirkwood

plandis said:


> did they call that a "scout"?


I have NO idea what it is called.
I am not a train enthousiast and came on this forum to find out what they are worth so I can sell them.
They asked me to post a picture.


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## plandis

big ed said:


> Some only know it as a coal car, that is why I add that.
> It saves from giving an answer on what is a tender.
> 
> You have the gunmetal tender then, there is no guide that I know of that gives a price just for the tender.
> They only list them as a set engine & tender together.
> 
> Type A black with a die-cast 2224 tender in good shape is listed at $155.
> That is good shape. Compared to $290 in X shape.
> 
> Those prices are not rock solid, I have seen stuff sell for way over and way under the guides prices. It all depends on who is buying and it's condition.


Ed- isn't the 2224 tender the NON whistling and the 2224W the whistling type? I think that makes a big difference in the pricing. I have seen the dicast tender, the "W" with working box coupler and all steps in tact go for several hundred bucks on ebay! much more than the loco.


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## plandis

dirkwood said:


> I have NO idea what it is called.
> I am not a train enthousiast and came on this forum to find out what they are worth so I can sell them.
> They asked me to post a picture.


no worries- thats part of the fun with this forum. the underside of the tender should have a number in stamped ink. I think silver or white. is that visible?


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## Big Ed

plandis said:


> Ed- isn't the 2224 tender the NON whistling and the 2224W the whistling type? I think that makes a big difference in the pricing. I have seen the dicast tender, the "W" with working box coupler and all steps in tact go for several hundred bucks on ebay! much more than the loco.


Yes whistles almost always go for more.

just a plain old # means, nothing in it.
after the # a W or B means,
W= whistle
B = bell

edit, B&M used to be a mod here, we never hear from him much anymore.
I don't know if he will respond to you.

He used to be the SUPERMODERATOR here.


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## servoguy

Scout was a term that Lionel used to identify their low end trains and engines. A 2-6-2 engine is NOT a scout engine. They were usually 2-4-2s.


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## dirkwood

plandis said:


> no worries- thats part of the fun with this forum. the underside of the tender should have a number in stamped ink. I think silver or white. is that visible?


I see nothing on the bottem but the box itself says 0-2689W


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## gunrunnerjohn

Now, the question is, does the box match the tender.


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## dirkwood

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Now, the question is, does the box match the tender.


LOL...wellll I have only 3 trains and I have 2 carton boxes.
The loco is to big for any of them and the oil tanker has a corresponding number with the box it is in so the box the tender is in must be most likely the box.


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## tjcruiser

That looks like a 2689W tender to me. If it's heavy, it has a whistle inside, which makes it the W designation, as Ed said.

I don't think the 224 was ever mated (via Lionel) to that tender, so thing may have been swapped somewhere along the way.

TJ


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## dirkwood

tjcruiser said:


> That looks like a 2689W tender to me. If it's heavy, it has a whistle inside, which makes it the W designation, as Ed said.
> 
> I don't think the 224 was ever mated (via Lionel) to that tender, so thing may have been swapped somewhere along the way.
> 
> TJ


It is kind of heavy...


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## plandis

does it have pickup roller(s) on the trucks? dead give away!
what would you want for the 224E anyway? with or wihtout tender.


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## dirkwood

what are now pick up rollers ? LOL
I was hoping hoping to get $ 350 for all 3 of them together if I put them on e/bay.


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## tjcruiser

Pickup rollers are a little solid-metal roller wheel that's positioned between the main wheels. It grabs electrical power from the middle rail, and transfers it to a motor ... in this case, the motor that turns the whistle fan.

Not to discourage your, but $350 is a very, very steep price for a 224 and those cars.

Have your looked at comparable Completed auctions on ebay?

TJ


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## dirkwood

tjcruiser said:


> Pickup rollers are a little solid-metal roller wheel that's positioned between the main wheels. It grabs electrical power from the middle rail, and transfers it to a motor ... in this case, the motor that turns the whistle fan.
> 
> Not to discourage your, but $350 is a very, very steep price for a 224 and those cars.
> 
> Have your looked at comparable Completed auctions on ebay?
> 
> TJ


No I did not..looked at he catalog mentioned in here but the price is negotiable.You can always try and if I get that than it would be nice but not really interested in milking to the highest price,just want to get rid of them to someone whom can enjoy them.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I suggest you spend a little research time and see what completed eBay auctions are going for, as well as current auction starting prices. One thing I've found on eBay is if you start the listing at too high a price, you'll likely get no bids. OTOH, if you start somewhere below market, it frequently gets bid up way past what you'd expect!


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I suggest you spend a little research time and see what completed eBay auctions are going for, as well as current auction starting prices. One thing I've found on eBay is if you start the listing at too high a price, you'll likely get no bids. OTOH, if you start somewhere below market, it frequently gets bid up way past what you'd expect!



OTOH? 
why don't you just type the words?

what do you, make these up? 
Like my above sentence would you know what I was asking if I had just put, WDYJTTW?

What the heck is OTOH?


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## dirkwood

Thanks for the advice guy's:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> What the heck is OTOH?


*On The Other Hand*. Get with the program Ed.


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## Big Ed

Never mind John I looked it up.

I will reply with, NALOPKT I found that there.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, now there's one more.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, now there's one more.



means, 
*NALOPKT*
Not A Lot Of People Know That


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> means,
> *NALOPKT*
> Not A Lot Of People Know That


I know that Ed, read my previous comment.


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## plandis

gunny is right about the ebay actions. they get into a bidding frenzy and the price shoots way past what your min bid was at with no bidders! I don't get it but it works. also a lot of fun to "snipe" bids. 

Big Ed also has a good point. that a very steep price for those. you should come in at about 1/2 that unless they grade excellent.


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## Big Ed

plandis said:


> gunny is right about the ebay actions. they get into a bidding frenzy and the price shoots way past what your min bid was at with no bidders! I don't get it but it works. also a lot of fun to "snipe" bids.
> 
> Big Ed also has a good point. that a very steep price for those. you should come in at about 1/2 that unless they grade excellent.


I think you are referring to John's statement.


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## plandis

oops. its early! i got into looking into those acronyms you guys were shooting around.


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## servoguy

One of my pet peeves is acronyms. The engineering community uses them and there are now acronyms that represent multiple things with no way to figure out which thing they are referring to. I remember being in a staff meeting years ago, and an engineer was giving a presentation on a communication system. All of his audience were missile and fire control guys. He used a lot of acronyms and there wasn't a single person in the room that had any idea what he was talking about. Rather than ask him to explain, we all kept quiet to minimize the length of his presentation and to minimize the pain.


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## tjcruiser

The military is amuk with too many acronyms. Sometimes, they use acronyms where the letters in the acronym stand for other acronym words!


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## plandis

just nod once in a while and keep quiet! been there done that!


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## servoguy

I tried one time many years ago to submit a proposal or something to the military, and was told I had to use the approved abbreviations. Saving paper, I guess.


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## servoguy

I think this acronym stuff really got going with the Apollo program.


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## servoguy

I got out my reference book for prewar Lionel trains: Lionel Trains, Standard of the World, 1900-1943, Edited by Donald S. Fraley, M.D. Copyright 1976. Here is what it lists for 224 engines:

1938 to 1942

2-6-2 with or without whistle, 

gunmetal with 2689 tender
gunmetal with 2224 die-cast tender
black with 2224 die-cast tender
black with 2224 plastic tender

The book shows the 2689 mated to the 229E, 1666, 1666E, 1684 locos.

Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser

Bruce,

Good call!!! I was thinking of the 224 in its postwar run. I had forgotten about the prewar 224 run with the 2689 (or 2689W) tender. So, it may be that the tender in question is an original mate to the loco.

I'm glad you smart guys are around here to keep guys like me from sticking my foot in my mouth too hard!

TJ


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