# My Craigslist AF score



## mikesdaddy

I found this AF set (20320) 20 minutes from my home. I've wanted to get back into the hobby with some vintage AF stuff, and I suppose this will get me started!

Here's the box it came in:










Open it up and here's the mess:










Let's sort through what we got for our money......


Loco:











It seems fairly clean, nothing obviously broken. Just a few decades of dirt and dust to clean off.
































Here are the cars that came in the box:











A closer look at each one:








































I was pleasantly surprised that the knuckles worked like they were supposed to when I set up for the pictures.....

Here's what else was in the box. Instructions, transformers, etc. There's some Lionel stuff mixed in here, not sure what to do with it.

I got 20 curved pieces of curved track, 10 pieces of straight. It's a little dirty, but I don't see much in the way of rust. It seems it was stored in a decent location for most of it's life.




















Anyhow, all this cost me $150. (Thanks to Flyernut for helping me negotiate a price!) I hope I did okay, as I'm a complete newb here......any tips and tricks for cleaning up everything and getting her running would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Greg (Mikesdaddy)


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## tjcruiser

Hi Greg,

Fabulous find ... everything appears to be in great shape for its age. I'm guessing that the price was reasonable, but I think there's added value to be able to dust off and breathe some new life into one of these old sets.

On a side note ...

The forum Auto SpamBot had flagged your post/thread as a danger, and block it from going "live" to the general forum ... it might have been the Craigslist reference ... that's the only reason I can think of. Anyway, I slapped the SpamBot on the wrist, told it to play nice, and gave a Mod's green light to your post.

Thanks for sharing!

TJ


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## SkyArcher

Nice!!


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## Big Ed

Timboy said:


> Greg:
> 
> Okay. Everybody hate you now. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> Great find!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> I have a suggestion of what to do with that Lionel jun, er I mean stuff...
> 
> Regards,
> Timboy


What Lionel stuff? the #90 button controller?
can't you use it with AF?

Timboy,

The white walls look nice on American Flyers. (So realistic)

Nice find, I hope they work out for you.


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## mikesdaddy

big ed said:


> What Lionel stuff? the #90 button controller?
> can't you use it with AF?
> 
> Timboy,
> 
> The white walls look nice on American Flyers. (So realistic)
> 
> Nice find, I hope they work out for you.




Funny, I think it's the whitewalls that attract me to AF stuff.....different strokes!


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## tjcruiser

Hey, I had learned from you AF guys that the reason for the white wheels is to electrically insulate the left wheels from the right wheels ... Gucci style!

Cheers,

TJ


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## flyernut

Hey Greg, nice stuff!! And I think you got a great deal on it also.That 283 looks great.. As promised, I sprayed a little pledge on one of my 283's and spruced her up. Here's a couple of pix. Again, nice score!! Now, git er runnin!!


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## mikesdaddy

flyernut said:


> Hey Greg, nice stuff!! And I think you got a great deal on it also.That 283 looks great.. As promised, I sprayed a little pledge on one of my 283's and spruced her up. Here's a couple of pix. Again, nice score!! Now, git er runnin!!



Wow, that makes the engine look like new! Hopefully I'll have some time to try and get her running in the next few days.

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

Greg


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## Reckers

Very nice score! The engine is a smoker, so be sure you keep fluid in it when you use it. The lighted caboose is a nice extra, too, and it has the moving brakeman, both very nice features!


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## Reckers

Some info on your 283 and the years in which is was manufactured:

http://www.americanflyerexpress.com...r-products-directory-steam-locomotives-01.htm

Explore the site: it will give you a lot of information about your other cars, as well.


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## markjs

Nice set. I also used Pledge on my old "operator quality" AF cars (after gentle washing with dishwashing detergent & soft tooth brush) and it makes a big difference.


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## mikesdaddy

Today I sat down at my bench to try and see what works and what doesn't. A quick test with the DVM showed that the transformer was working as it should. A quick tightening of the screws on the base of the transformer quieted down an awful buzz--after that it is nearly silent. Good to go there!

I hooked the transformer to the locomotive with alligator clips and gave it a little juice. I could hear humming, the headlight came on, but no wheel movement. A few more tries and nothing.

SO, I took the bodies off the loco and tender. Another test fire showed the reverse unit (proper name?) working, somewhat sluggishly. There was voltage getting to the motor, but it wasn't moving.

So I pulled the motor apart. I cleaned the commutator and checked the brushes. The grease on the drive gears that was there had pretty much turned to goo. The motor was pretty much dry as well. Some time spent cleaning off the old stuff and a sparse amount of new lube and oil brought her back to life! And with a bit more exercise, the reverse unit had loosened up to where it was working well.

Earlier today I picked up a bottle of smoke fluid. I put a few drops in the smoke unit, and a few minutes later I was rewarded with a good output of smoke! 

I found myself smiling like a kid again. I still have to clean up the outside of the loco and cars, and clean up the track before it gets the big test.

I'm loving it!

Thanks for your encouragement and help!

Greg


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## flyernut

Atta boy Greg.When you tore down the motor, did you reface the armature?? It's an easy process. Pull out the armature and chuck it up in a drill press. Turn the press on and with a piece of emery cloth or fine sandpaper, hold it on the copper face of the spinning armature.Resurface as you see fit. I use a piece of 2000 grit wet/dry paper to really polish up the face of the armature. After all those years of running in mostly forward, there will sometimes be a small groove cut into the face; sometimes it can be seen or felt, sometimes not. Refacing it will eliminate the groove. The symptom is called "running faster in reverse".


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## flyernut

mikesdaddy said:


> Today I sat down at my bench to try and see what works and what doesn't. A quick test with the DVM showed that the transformer was working as it should. A quick tightening of the screws on the base of the transformer quieted down an awful buzz--after that it is nearly silent. Good to go there!
> 
> I hooked the transformer to the locomotive with alligator clips and gave it a little juice. I could hear humming, the headlight came on, but no wheel movement. A few more tries and nothing.
> 
> SO, I took the bodies off the loco and tender. Another test fire showed the reverse unit (proper name?) working, somewhat sluggishly. There was voltage getting to the motor, but it wasn't moving.
> 
> So I pulled the motor apart. I cleaned the commutator and checked the brushes. The grease on the drive gears that was there had pretty much turned to goo. The motor was pretty much dry as well. Some time spent cleaning off the old stuff and a sparse amount of new lube and oil brought her back to life! And with a bit more exercise, the reverse unit had loosened up to where it was working well.
> 
> Earlier today I picked up a bottle of smoke fluid. I put a few drops in the smoke unit, and a few minutes later I was rewarded with a good output of smoke!
> 
> I found myself smiling like a kid again. I still have to clean up the outside of the loco and cars, and clean up the track before it gets the big test.
> 
> I'm loving it!
> 
> Thanks for your encouragement and help!
> 
> Greg


99% of the time these fine old flyers will only need a clean-up and lube job, and they'll be fine. The other 1% will be because of a broken wire.(not that simple but you catch my drift,lol). Nice job of tearing into the beast!!! You've got alot of back-up here so don't be afraid of it!!


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## Reckers

Nice job, Greg---the first time is always the hardest and the scariest. Here's a couple of sites that might interest you:

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album209?page=2


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## mikesdaddy

flyernut said:


> Atta boy Greg.When you tore down the motor, did you reface the armature?? It's an easy process. Pull out the armature and chuck it up in a drill press. Turn the press on and with a piece of emery cloth or fine sandpaper, hold it on the copper face of the spinning armature.Resurface as you see fit. I use a piece of 2000 grit wet/dry paper to really polish up the face of the armature. After all those years of running in mostly forward, there will sometimes be a small groove cut into the face; sometimes it can be seen or felt, sometimes not. Refacing it will eliminate the groove. The symptom is called "running faster in reverse".



I may tear it down again and give it a better going over....I was a bit nervous taking it apart for the first time.....I still feel like it can be smoother with some more care. It still sounds a little like a coffee grinder.

I will also clean the armature.

I'm amazed at the robust and simple construction of these toys. SO different from most of what's sold today.


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## SkyArcher

Yeah, they don't make them like this anymore.


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## mikesdaddy

I just realized that my smoke unit is missing it's smoke stack.....I see there are red plastic and metal ones....

I will need to order one of those and perhaps one of those little funnels.

Is there anything else you folks would recommend I should get while I'm at it?

And is there a preferred AF parts supplier you'd recommend?

Thanks again!

Greg


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## Reckers

Greg, you don't need the funnel if you get liquid smoke in one of those lil plastic squeeze-bottles with the long, tapered neck. 

For parts, I favor Portline Hobbies: http://www.portlines.com/ 

Other than that, you might visit Lowes some day and pick up one of those lil tubes of powdered graphite for your knuckle couplers---it's usually where they make keys. The knucks do better with that for lube than oil. Oh, and I like using an electric drill when I dress the face of the armature (commutator plates). It's one of those face-up vs face-down things, drill press vs hand drill. Neither is better, but I like to sit-and-see instead of squat-and-see while I dress the plates, and I like a really fine jeweler's file: I can let it rest lightly on the plates as the armature spins and get very good control. Best wishes!


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## tjcruiser

You can also find little tubes of graphite powder at a craft or hobby store, near where they sell cub scout pinewood derby kits.

TJ


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## flyernut

Reckers said:


> Nice job, Greg---the first time is always the hardest and the scariest. Here's a couple of sites that might interest you:
> 
> http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual
> 
> http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album209?page=2


Great info, thanks for sharing.


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## mikesdaddy

flyernut said:


> Great info, thanks for sharing.




Agreed! Sorry, Reckers, somehow I missed your post. Great wealth of info there!!!


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## Reckers

If either of you want a long list of sites for AF and S scale information, Stillakid and I put together some lists of websites we'd collected. You'll find them in the S scale section of this forum, waaaaaay back in the earliest posts.


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## flyernut

Reckers said:


> If either of you want a long list of sites for AF and S scale information, Stillakid and I put together some lists of websites we'd collected. You'll find them in the S scale section of this forum, waaaaaay back in the earliest posts.


Super, duper, skiddaly doo!!


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## Reckers

I take it that's a positive?:laugh:


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## flyernut

Reckers said:


> I take it that's a positive?:laugh:


yes sir...


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## mikesdaddy

Today I finally got to set up some track and give the old gal a test run!

Here's a youtube link to see her in action!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TC2AD5Go0k


I couldn't be happier with my first (notice I said "first"  )American Flyer! I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas!!!


Greg


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## flyernut

That table just fits!!! Nice set, and nice job. I enjoyed the video too!! Merry Christmas to you and the family.. Now, get to a train show and buy more!!


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## tjcruiser

Greg,

Great fun! Nice job getting her running again. I agree with 'nut's comment ... it lookis like that dining table was custom-made for the train loop!

Enjoy,

TJ


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## Reckers

Very nice! That locomotive smokes like a New Jersey choir-boy!


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## Big Ed

mikesdaddy said:


> Funny, I think it's the whitewalls that attract me to AF stuff.....different strokes!



you do know when I said that I was just giving it back to the S crowd?
they are always putting down Lionel.

I kind of like the whitewalls myself.
I am in the process of painting all my Lionel wheels white as we speak.


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## Reckers

Ed, we only put down Lionel and O gauge because............

Okay, I'd better send an email instead of posting. It's gonna require an attachment to list all the reasons!:hah::hah::hah::hah::hah:


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## Reckers

I'm thinking it might be time to establish a self-help organization for us: one of those 12-step groups:

"Hi, my name is Reckers, and I'm an O-gauge mockaholic...and I haven't posted a jibe in 3 days!"


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## T-Man

Go Ahead! 
I am begining to think AF means Always Fixing!


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## Reckers

*LOL* I think it's in reference to how well they were built and continue to last, Bob. "Available Forever"!!!!


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## T-Man

How about Lionel?

Lionel It Only Needs Extra Love. AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


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## Rich_Trains

Greg,

Even more impressive is it looks as if the track is set on the dining room table laying directly on the wood surface. How did you ever get away with that?

Rich


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## Reckers

T-Man said:


> How about Lionel?
> 
> Lionel It Only Needs Extra Love. AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


Lionel: Lose It. Overpriced, Needs Endless Labor!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## T-Man

I guess you have a theme song for your layout now. Work on the layout and sing, then you got a you tube extravaganza!



> But Lord knows there's got to be a better way


Good Grief! (Good one!) 

Just to stay on topic, 
Greg it looks great, and you are fortunate to have one that runs.


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## Big Ed

American Flyer was so good and must have been popular,

that is why the company folded....went belly up......

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

along with their cheap looking 2 rail.:laugh:


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## SkyArcher

So Timboy, tell us how you really feel about Lionel.

So far the last three train sets I've bought were American Flyer and I just picked up an 18B transformer. Am I hooked?


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## Stillakid

*Went Belly Up............*

Yup, sure did. But then again, If it was such a bad concept, I wonder why the Lionel guys brought it out again? Hmmmmmmmmmm, and they even kept the "2 Rail Concept!":laugh:

If you consider the "Junk" that Lionel was producing for a time, they too should have gone, "Belly Up!" Talk about some poor quality. :thumbsdown:

I've got them both, and I prefer my American Flyer. Great smoke, good sounds without the need for a ton of electronics, complex, yet simple enough to operate and teach the next generation of enthusists to enjoy.


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## Reckers

Tim: go to your room.:lol_hitting:


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## flyernut

Stillakid said:


> Yup, sure did. But then again, If it was such a bad concept, I wonder why the Lionel guys brought it out again? Hmmmmmmmmmm, and they even kept the "2 Rail Concept!":laugh:
> 
> If you consider the "Junk" that Lionel was producing for a time, they too should have gone, "Belly Up!" Talk about some poor quality. :thumbsdown:
> 
> I've got them both, and I prefer my American Flyer. Great smoke, good sounds without the need for a ton of electronics, complex, yet simple enough to operate and teach the next generation of enthusists to enjoy.


100% correct!! I've got a 4-8-4 Northern, (Rock Island), that I bought new, in the box, from Lionel. I couldn't get that stupid thing to run, no matter what I did. I even contacted Lionel, who told me that was one of the worst loco's ever built by Lionel. They also told me to take a hike in regards to fixing it. I checked around in other forums, and found that the loco's wheels had to be rebushed at a cost of $110 bucks.Now granted, I bought the loco quite a few years back, it was nib, never run,but was old stock. I purchased it at a local train show from a "reputable" dealer, who told me that the loco might be "stiff" and to just oil it.It was stiff all-right. Lionel also told me that regardless of any product being new, if it was sold at a train show, there was no warranty. I gave Lionel a second chance when I bought a Lionmaster Big-boy. It has never run right, doesn't smoke worth a darn, the speed control, (odyssey,) doesn't seem to work right, and the front drivers turn faster than the rear. Back to the dealer, nothing wrong. It's now sits in the box. If I want O gauge, it's either MTH, or if I can find it, K-line..


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## Reckers

big ed said:


> American Flyer was so good and must have been popular,
> 
> that is why the company folded....went belly up......
> 
> :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> along with their cheap looking 2 rail.:laugh:




Both reasonable points to ponder. However, I'd respond by noting that, while this site has many members who became disenchanted with O gauge and made the happy transition to S scale....I can't think of anyone who went from S to O!!! Lionel must have had good reason to buy the rights to AF and all it's tooling---perhaps they felt it would give them a step up in quality?

At any rate, there is a common theme on S scale sites: Lionel can't build it. There are non-stop complaints about their Flyonel offerings, starting with the cars and locomotives literally falling apart, coming out of the box. What kind of company puts a Big Boy on the market that won't stay on the tracks until users go through a litany of adjustments and modifications? THPPPPPTTTTTT!!!!!!!


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## T-Man

Poor Mikes Daddy's got a Hornets Nest in his thread!


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## Reckers

*grins* yeah, but it's an S scale thread....so it's gooooooooood.


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## flyernut

T-Man said:


> Poor Mikes Daddy's got a Hornets Nest in his thread!


Ya, we should re-name it to "AF vs. Lionel, round 10, 293"!!!


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## flyernut

Could be.....


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## imatt88

Sweeet:d


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## Reckers

Nothing like a nice, friendly, internecine fight on the forum to make a cold winter pass faster!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## flyernut

Reckers said:


> Nothing like a nice, friendly, internecine fight on the forum to make a cold winter pass faster!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


You talking to me???


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## Reckers

Nope. You come from Outer Nicea.


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## flyernut

Timboy said:


> Huh? We're fighting? I thought we were trading zingers!  I love to get zung; even more than tossing out a good zinger! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: When I get zung, it sends me the message that I have arrived.  But I'm warped. Is the bar open yet? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


Of course we're fooling around. I can't be the only guy who remembers Robert De Niro saying that line in Taxi?? (I think).


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