# DCC/remote uncoupling?



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

*Give this a look*
_Kadee compatible._

Here's an idea...
One of you guys buy it, and give the rest of us your feedback and opinion.
I'll wait.

LINK:
DCC Uncoupling Conversion Kit, HO scale (Set of 2pcs.)

VIDEO:



__ https://www.facebook.com/101797484844471/posts/101820498175503


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

gee .. what an amazing idea .... not!
for 19.00 LESS you can get a pair off of ebay, lol
by the way, the write up is on this site, maybe three / four years ago ??


----------



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Then I guess my sarcasm in the O.P. was appropriate.


----------



## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I can see where that could be handy on a switch engine.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Pretty nifty. The o scale engines ... The mth and lionel have remote actuated couplers. Seemed like a miss in ho. But I guess I'm a little confused as to what outputs I'd hook up the wires on am existing dcc sound decoder. I didn't read the manual yet. I assume minimal voltage and current to turn the motor is needed.


----------



## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

Okay, I'll play dumb newbie (only because I am). Why is this such a bad idea? Are other uncouplers that much better and more reliable? 

Other then a PIA to install for these old eyes and clumsy mitts, I could see that on my yard switching Loco? Of course, could only use it on the locomotive, not uncouple back a few cars. Is that the downside? 

Teachable moment, gents, help me understand.


----------



## usmiladim (Dec 14, 2020)

LateStarter said:


> *Give this a look*
> _Kadee compatible._
> 
> Here's an idea...
> ...


I’m quiet sure some one will jump on it just for you. Lol


----------



## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

And for that $20 you get two actuators, two resistors, and some string.  

I'll guess getting that little string tied to the existing coupler _juuuust right_, so it worked properly, would take a good bit of trial and error... for _every_ one.

If you got it working right it would be pretty nifty on a switcher. But I don't imagine that teeny-tiny little motor has a very long lifespan.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

It's not a bad idea. The reason it's $20 is someone has done the leg work of figuring out a motor, the connecting material, written a fairly clear manual with some suggested wiring diagrams, and put together some dcc codes for it. You can do this all yourself but iits going to cost you money and time.


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Stumpy said:


> And for that $20 you get two actuators, two resistors, and some string.
> 
> I'll guess getting that little string tied to the existing coupler _juuuust right_, so it worked properly, would take a good bit of trial and error... for _every_ one.
> 
> If you got it working right it would be pretty nifty on a switcher. But I don't imagine that teeny-tiny little motor has a very long lifespan.


Stumpy;

Similar surplus pager/cellphone vibrator motors are available cheap. They draw very little current and only have to be on a second or two to uncouple. So I don't think motor life would be an issue. After all, they work for years inside a pager or phone.
One of the lighting, or auxiliary function, outputs of a DCC decoder would work. Yes, the "kit" "sans-couplers" is way overpriced, but the idea does work, and it's been around for awhile. There are several YouTube videos showing how it works.

Stejones82;

Yes, the fact that only a DCC equipped locomotive could use such DCC triggered couplers is a big drawback. As you say, you can't uncouple anywhere in the train, as you can with either magnetic/delayed , or manual stick, uncoupling.

Traction Fan


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I ordered 3 sets just because...


----------



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Amazing...
Although I didn't have it mind when I posted it, this thread is proving that gadgets & widgets will attract hordes of attention.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I think it will be fun and saves me time to sort out the details of something I've thought about but have other things in the way. I still have that digikey box with supposedly all the discrete parts to make a simple dcc decoder. Maybe Ill combine them.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

They shipped. I also got gunrunnerjohns sound board. Came the other day. It's smaller than I thought it would be ...


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

So the package came and it's all very nicely bundled in little bags, etc with an included printed guide.

And man are the motors tiny.

I will try to take a pic next few days.


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

you will have to be careful, the web site itself shows a need for a DCC decoder with 150ma output, most decoders have only 100ma .. it's a good idea to see what current the resistor / motor actually draws for current ..


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I have the newest soundtraxx pnp and one esu after market but the rest are oem. No idea what's in the manuals.

Arg I just looked up the soundtraxx

100mA (each output)


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I looked at the documentation. The circuit diagrams show 150 ma. But web text and table in the docs say 100 ma.


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

usually 60-80ma is enough load for a long time [if you forget and leave the motor latched on], depends on the pager motor ....
i had some that were 120ma [i thought it was too much] and found some that ran 80ma under actuation, which i thought was okay ..
most decoders are good for a sustained 100ma, but i didn't try them all, lol


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

Severn said:


> I looked at the documentation. The circuit diagrams show 150 ma. But web text and table in the docs say 100 ma.


gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling in thier product, lol


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

It's just a guy like you and me, a hobbyist. I sent him a question in it. But will just try it, maybe later today.

I'm hoping it just works because I'm no digital electronics guy.

I can kinda envision using an output to trigger say a capacitor to bump it up tied to a light output as some kind of hack that might work.

But they negates the reason I bought it in the first place.

And then I have to eat my hat.


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

depends on what he used for a pager motor .... mine were 80ma and about 50 cents each on ebay ....used the dropping resistor and string also .... driven directly from one of the DCC function outputs, no 'special; coding needed ...


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I don't think there are any markings on them. Besides the motors, string ...there's some resistors in the packet. And the instructions.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

One should always read the dang manual. In the packet is the motor, resistors, thread, shrink rubing, thin gauge wire.

And in the manual there's some instructions, circuits for < 150 ma outputs.

But but but, I just noticed that the last two outputs according to the manual seem to be enabled together on this tsunami2. (F28)

If so I think I can just wire them together for 200 ma total max.


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

it would be easier if you could find out the motors actual current draw ...do you have a multimeter or a power supply with current readout ??


----------



## Yoppeh7J-UPmp954 (Nov 23, 2014)

These are made in Japan under license from Kadee using the HO scale couplers but due to Covid 19 stopped sales last year just before I decided to try them.









shop | subarashi models







www.smart-coupler.com




*Here is the SUBARASHI MODELS e-shop.
Click for jump to the detail page and the shopping cart page.*
日本語
*We stop sales under the influence of COVID-19！*


*DCC Function decoder for Smart Coupler(#1000)*
Out of stock

*Smart Coupler #2000*
Price¥3,500

*Smart Coupler(B2000） more than 6*
Price¥3,150

*micro LED with lead wire　X　５pieces*
Price¥400


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Those look interesting above, how do they work?

As for the motor's current. I believe 100ma will move them but maybe not enough for ho couplers. I'm just guessing based on what's on the website for n scale.

Yes I have multimeters, a digital oscope, seperate power supply. What I don't have is time and my knowledge is weak


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

if it's more than 100ma that the function output can provide, you will need an alternate mthod of providing 150ma [or so] that the decoupler would need ..
to determine amperage you would set the power supply to 14.5 volts [nominal] , then the multimeter set to ma, then the current dropping resistor, and finally the motor ..
while it will not draw much spinning, a stall [motor held from turning] will give you the current drawn ..
hopefully this is lower than 100ma ..


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

So my first thought on the soundtraxx pnp I do have -- it appears to fire 2 outputs with one function for F 28. So just wire them together.

After that the motor manual suggests a method and provides a circuit and part... which I probably don't have but have to look to provide more current.

As for stall... I put a 9v battery on the motor which runs vigorously. 

Then I measured the current. It runs along at like 50-70 ma.

If I hold the motor for a moment, I see say 320 to 350 ma.

Clearly even 9v is way more voltage than needed, the motor gets quite warm.

At this point it seems to me 100 ma should open it. I guess there may be an issue with fully doing that due to coupler resistance ...maybe 150 is better.

And I don't think you want to keep powering it. You just want enough to hold it open for a moment. 

Well I guess time to move to a mock up.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Meh....real couplings don’t uncouple with out the interaction of a person, so why should my model trains do it.....?

IMO, as per usual......


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I kinda think it's cool. In fact I want more of a grabber. But it's really just for fun.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I learned something about esu decoders from the seller. This is probably applicable to the more recent ones. Anyway you can program a macro sequence in it.

So this motor coupker design appears to be perhaps obvious but I didn't realize it -- based on the motor turning one way to open. And then off current to close as the coupler is sprung.

Given that, it's important to turn off the current in a timely manner or the motor will eventually burn out.

This is where the macro is helpful.

Now I do have an esu select but I don't know about the macro capability there. And the soundtraxx tsunami2 doesn't seem to have it.

But I use JMRI and this kind of thing can be added there.

Still there's benefit to such being right at the decoder so it's very likely to deliver the sequence of actions as desired.

With the JMRI approach there's some small chance the engine could miss the output off... And leave the motor pulling..

Anyway the other idea is to use a circuit of some kind to cut the power after a time..


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

can't help with above ...
my design would work with any decoder with a spare function output, didn't have to be an ESU, didn't need any special 'macro' commands, didn't need any special circuits for a 'time out' or specialized driver circuits ..
you are on your own with this, lol
oh .. and did i mention, it was a buck ..


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Well a buck it is then but what is it?


----------



## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

flyboy2610 said:


> I can see where that could be handy on a switch engine.


Not as handy as you think, since if you're switching cars most of the action is between cars, not the engine. (Yes, you will uncouple there too, but the higher percentage is in between cars.)


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

So I just got these for fun -- because someone (I thought) did most of the leg work for it. that i'd have to normally do myself, and not being a digital person -- this was worth something to me as I'd never even try it otherwise. i'm open to ideas of course.

i had considered that in the ideal each car could have these coupler motors and that would be cool -- but then you'd need some minimal decoder to fire it on each car. doable i think, maybe not terribly realistic but do-able.

Well on the decoder front I just found this morning that there's a "on-off" setting for the output functions on the tsunami2 ... so that means in theory the output goes high (voltage there) and then after X time period, it goes back to 0 without human intervention.

That's perfect for this if the X time period is say a second or two because that negates the need to remember to turn off the function output manually. (which I would no doubt forget) -- and in forgetting -- burn the motor out.

And so for folks like me -- that alleviates the need for more parts or a circuit to do it for you.

Haven't tried it yet of course.


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

on my layout, switching was -mostly- between cars, very little from loco to first car ..
a simple reason not to implement the electrically operated coupler, as a matter of standard practice ..


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

for the fast fingered types -- each car has an address, and implements "F0" or whatever to fire the coupler open (maybe F1 for the rear). maybe it could all be made to work but i'd probably crash everything into a huge smoking pile. still it seems possible. you'd have to bring up track power on each to the most minimal decoder -- find a little home for that -- and have a line to the motor etc...


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So having these on every car in the fleet.....let’s see $20 per car.....times 300 cars.....not going to happen, even if they work like they’re supposed to.....


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Right, in order to do it realistically it'd have to be very affordable. so that's one issue. i think these little motors can be bought in bulk as wvga has suggested for "pennies" ... and so if i ever figure out these kits and know something. i guess in theory i could just go my own way there. then of course there's the decoder. i have the parts to a home brew decoder project unfinished. it's minimal in nature but in fact you'd want it even more minimal for this application.

perhaps there are other ways to achieve the remote control of couplers that are even cheaper but then you'd have two control systems and that's be a pain.

well i guess we're just seeing why the market doesn't supply it, not exactly a clear clean and easy solution that's cheap. but it doesn't hurt to think about it... 

I'd say if wasn't down to about a $1 a car, no one would really want it except again as a kind of fun thing to do perhaps on a subset of their items.

and even then -- how in the world do you manage at the human end 300 cars and all that. it's possible but not for me. i'd never pull that off.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And again, REAL rail cars do not have automatic activated couplers; un-coupling is still done by hand, so what are we trying to mimick on our models here.....? 

Can you tell I’m not a fan yet.....?


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

just ahead of the curve. automation is everywhere!


----------



## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

Does anybody like the RIX uncoupling tool?


----------



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

So far about 95% of my uncoupling is all manual.
Of course I fumble some of it, (which usually draws laughter) but I basically have more faith in Preiser 1:87 railworkers to do the job right, than electric circuits.
But call me crazy. Nobody ever accused me of being normal.


----------



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Stejones82 said:


> Does anybody like the RIX uncoupling tool?


I like the Rix magnetic tool. I got a bunch of them at a going o.o.b. sale a while back.
I mostly use skewers with the ends filed to shape... dozens of those around the layout.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Severn said:


> automation is everywhere!


Unfortunately......


----------



## gcollins2021 (Apr 22, 2021)

I find this an interesting topic. Would be nice to decouple remotely but as was said above you would have to spend a lot on the couplers to be able to do any loco and rolling stock. Can get expensive!

But I did find one that did have the solenoid/motor built into the coupler, which is a cool idea...









Smart coupler produced by subarashi models


Smart coupler, makes it possible to operate uncoupling & coupling remotely anywhere on the tracks without special mechanism.




www.smart-coupler.com





But at $33 per coupler that can be mighty expensive!

But there is also one just buying the motor






Shop


Innovative model railroad accessories




www.precimodels.com





2 for $20. Still expensive but something to look into in the future. I'd do something like that for a switcher but that's about it.

My .02 cents worth  

Glen


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Again, real couplers on real cars don’t uncouple automatically, so if you are trying to mimick real trains, then.....


----------



## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

i did my version [under a dollar] to work with normal DCC decoders, no other circuitry needed, but in the long run i didn't add it to any more locomotives, and rolling stock is decoupled either by track placed supermagnets, or a standard skewer stick ..


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Well the parts I bought are sitting on a shelf. I've something in front of it, including gunrunner johns sound card. I'm working on it though just very slowly.


----------

