# American Flyer no. 20425 Train Set?



## BarDown

Hi Guys/Gals!

I was cleaning out my basement the other day and found this train set. I know nothing about it, or if it works. Was just going to throw it out but thought I'd check if it was worth anything.

If anyone could tell me anything about it, I would really appreciate it!

Thanks!


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## tjcruiser

BarDown,

Don't throw it out! Never throw out trains!!!

Thanks for checking in ... we have some AF / S-gauge guys here who hopefully will chime in with some info for you.

I moved this thread over to the S-gauge section.

I fixed the link to your first photo ... you need to post the URL for each actual photo, rather than the URL to the imageshack page that displays the photo.
(I've now fixed the other photos ... there was something about ImageShack that was getting trapped in our forum's SpamBot.)

Regards,

TJ


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## tjcruiser

BarDown,

The website below is a great resource for AF historical info.

http://www.americanflyerexpress.com/index.htm

Looks like your 20425 set was made in 1958 (or maybe 1957):

http://www.americanflyerexpress.com...american-flyer-products-directory-sets-04.htm

Although, that link/info above says a 21005 loco. You actually have a 21004 loco. (Looks like the difference is that the 21005 has a white stripe along the frame.)

http://www.americanflyerexpress.com...er-express-switcher-0-6-0-pennsylvania-02.htm

Maybe there was some variation in the set, depending upon store, distributor, etc.?

TJ


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## BarDown

Thanks for all the info TJ!

Do you think it is worth anything?


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## tjcruiser

This is where our AF / S guys have to chime in.


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> This is where our AF / S guys have to chime in.



DING...that is the 
*"Keystone" Rocket Freight Set 

I found one with the asking price of $425.

And take note that price does not have any box or track.


*









A copy and paste of the listing,








PRR 21005 Switcher​ You'll really like this *20425 set* with 21005 smoke and choo-choo; 25045 rocket launcher flatcar; 24549 Erie floodlight flatcar; 24626 AFL yellow caboose w/o light. Set includes button for rocket. Engine runs good. Small scratch on top of caboose and button letters faded. *Priced @ $425.00!* ​


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## BarDown

Oh wow I thought maybe $100 if I was lucky!

Where would be the best place to sell it? eBay?


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## gunrunnerjohn

You could list it here and in a couple of other forums and see if it sells, if not then try eBay. Remember, eBay ends up taking about 15% of whatever your stuff sells for.


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## BarDown

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You could list it here and in a couple of other forums and see if it sells, if not then try eBay. Remember, eBay ends up taking about 15% of whatever your stuff sells for.


 

I've never sold anything on eBay, but have bought a few things. Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up! But considering I was going to throw the thing out yesterday what do you think a reasonable asking price would be?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, I'd start by taking detailed pictures of the cars and locomotive from each side and allowing some of our AF experts evaluate the condition first. Condition is everything when you're selling old collectables. FWIW, the pictures you do have look pretty good, it certainly doesn't look abused, so I'm guessing you can net a decent buck from it.

Keep everything you have, including the instructions and any other paperwork, all of that adds to the value. The original box and paperwork, even if not in great condition, are always desirable.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, I'd start by taking detailed pictures of the cars and locomotive from each side and allowing some of our AF experts evaluate the condition first. Condition is everything when you're selling old collectables. FWIW, the pictures you do have look pretty good, it certainly doesn't look abused, so I'm guessing you can net a decent buck from it.
> 
> Keep everything you have, including the instructions and any other paperwork, all of that adds to the value. The original box and paperwork, even if not in great condition, are always desirable.



Before you get an answer you ought to take pictures of the underside so we can see the extent of the rust.

Hook the transformer to the track and see if it runs you have the clip and wire.

I am not saying that other set is going to sell for over $400.

Wait till our S experts see this thread...if your lucky one might give you some more info on the set and it's worth.

THROW IT OUT! :thumbsdown:

Even your track will clean up nice, a little WD40 with a green scotch brite pad will do the job.

It does look like the set was sitting in a damp area huh?

THROW IT OUT! 
You ought to be banned from the site just for thinking that!

Post some more pictures of the underside.


Edit,

If you try to run it make sure all the wheels are on the track right too.


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## BarDown

Thanks for all the input guys! It belonged to my dad, so other than my basement I have no clue where it has been stored but the box looks like it has seen better days. I took a few more detailed pictures. Looking forward to the feedback! 

Locomotive:

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## BarDown

I also have no idea how to try and get this thing going haha. I'll put up a picture of everything in the box other than the cars and maybe someone can let me know! Thanks again.

 Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## BarDown

Here is the rest of the cars:

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## BarDown

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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## BarDown

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, they look pretty nice! One question, what's the wires hanging out of the locomotive?


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## gunrunnerjohn

BarDown said:


> I also have no idea how to try and get this thing going haha. I'll put up a picture of everything in the box other than the cars and maybe someone can let me know! Thanks again.


You connect those two wires to that little track clip, and connect the other end to the transformer. Put a train on the track and advance the throttle.


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## Big Ed

They look in great shape the engine should be good too.

check this listing on e bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/20425-American-Flyer-Keystone-Freight-Set-/110682214359?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item19c52c8fd7


And like I said you have the complete set with the box. That means a lot to some collectors even though the box is not in the greatest of shape.

You might be able to get a good buck for this.

I don't know about $700 he is asking.

I am no expert especially on Flyers. 
One of our experts on Flyers was here but I see he didn't say a thing?

Wait till reckers comes on he might know or stillakid might.


AND YOU WERE GOING TO THROW IT AWAY!?


Edit,

You also have one more car then those others for sale.


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## BarDown

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You connect those two wires to that little track clip, and connect the other end to the transformer. Put a train on the track and advance the throttle.


Haha ok please nobody laugh at me. There are 3 connectors at the back of the transformer, which 2 do I connect the wires too?

 Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edit: And which little piece is the track clip?


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## BarDown

big ed said:


> They look in great shape the engine should be good too.
> 
> check this listing on e bay.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/20425-American-Flyer-Keystone-Freight-Set-/110682214359?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item19c52c8fd7
> 
> 
> And like I said you have the complete set with the box. That means a lot to some collectors even though the box is not in the greatest of shape.
> 
> You might be able to get a good buck for this.
> 
> I don't know about $700 he is asking.
> 
> I am no expert especially on Flyers.
> One of our experts on Flyers was here but I see he didn't say a thing?
> 
> Wait till reckers comes on he might know or stillakid might.
> 
> 
> AND YOU WERE GOING TO THROW IT AWAY!?
> 
> 
> Edit,
> 
> You also have one more car then those others for sale.




Thanks big ed, I appreciate all your help today!


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## Big Ed

I don't know but would think one to base and the other too either one of the others as one is 16 and the other is 7-16 hook one to the base and try the 16?


John? do you know?


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## Big Ed

Not the one with the button that fires the rocket.

and I don't think it is the little one I would try the one in between.

It clips on the track. I guess one rail is for power and the other is ground.

cools it fires the rocket too.:thumbsup:

I wish one of the flyer experts would chime in.


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## Big Ed

I got to hit the sack see if this link tells how to hook up the power

http://www.thortrains.net/flyermanual.pdf


Yes it tells page 14.


edit,

keep looking there is a picture there too.

goodnight I am off to ZZZZz land got to awake 2:00am.:thumbsdown:


BUT THEN A WHOLE WHOPPING 3 DAYS OFF.:thumbsup: WISH IT WAS THREE WEEKS OFF!hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn

Don't use the 16V tap, use the Base and the 7-16 volt tap, that's the variable throttle voltage. The 16V is constant voltage for accessories.

From the manual Ed posted.


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## tjcruiser

gunrunnerjohn said:


> One question, what's the wires hanging out of the locomotive?


John,

Many AF steamers had the power pickups in the tender, with wires to transfer power to the motor in the loco.

Separately, I will say that the loco, cars, equipment all appear to be in exceptionally good condition for the age. BarDown, you Dad must have packed them away quite carefully.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

They do look to be in excellent condition. I'm sure the AF collectors will like them, I doubt you see that condition all too often.


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## gunrunnerjohn

BarDown said:


> Edit: And which little piece is the track clip?


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


>



John looking at the manual I listed, figure #20 shows what you have pointed out as a #697 the other one will work too I believe that one is the #690. Just 2 different types?

And after reading the on line manual John is right about where the wires hook up.


One more thing bardown is if you try it the train might not work because of the track being rusty. Clean with wd40 and a kitchen green brite pad. Just the top of the rails will be good if you don't want to clean all of it. Clean the sides where the power clip goes too.

As the train gets the power from the rails.

Let us know what happens.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The other think that you might need is some lube on the locomotive, it's been in that box for a LONG time I suspect!


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## T-Man

How about some visual aide for the transformer.





















So the 16 volt terminal is to the left. The variable 7 to 16 is the center and the right is the base or common. This is looking from the top.

When head on at the cord, the base is to the left naturally.









Big Hint.
The place to clean is the copper wipers on the tender. ANd make sure the insulated wheels are on the same side for each truck but opposite each other.


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## BarDown

Great pictures guys! Finally had some time to give 'er a go today and it runs fine! Although it did manage to sneak off the track a couple times. But I think it was due to the track, and not the trains.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to the thread! Looks like to eBay she goes!


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## tjcruiser

Do consider offering the set here. I'm not sure if any of our S guys might bite, but if they do, you'll get an honest deal, and not have to fork over fees to ebay.


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Do consider offering the set here. I'm not sure if any of our S guys might bite, but if they do, you'll get an honest deal, and not have to fork over fees to ebay.



None of the "S" people even responded.hwell:


Put it on e bay, what are you going to start at? Do you know?
Did you clean up the track some?

I would gently clean the cars up too before you list them.

I see you wiped the dust off a bit but you forgot some spots. I can see them in your pictures. Cleaner means more bucks to you.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Just be careful with the "cleaning" process. don't damage things in the process. It's looking pretty good now.


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## BarDown

I've been swamped over the weekend. I will probably have some time to clean everything this week and put it up on eBay. No idea what I'll start it at, realistically $500 would be great, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I will report back with pics when its sparkles. 

And I will be very careful on the cars!


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## gunrunnerjohn

I have some advice for the pricing. Start at the lowest price point you'd consider, and let it be bid up. If you start too high, many times you simply won't get any bids. It has to be attractive to the first bidder, then it seems to take on a life of it's own.


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## Rich_Trains

Hi Bar,

I just returned from a trip. Wow, great find. You mean that doesn't tempt you to maybe give Flyer a try? I can reply later with more information about your find.

Regards,
Rich


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## Rich_Trains

Bar,

This is the Keystone set from 1958. Doyle's Standard Catalog of American Flyer Trains shows the locomotive as 21005, but as someone noted earlier it's possible Gilbert could have substituted a 21004 produced in 1957. I'm told that was often done.

Doyle shows this set at $1750 in Excellent (C7) condition, and $2000 in Like-New (C8) condition. This was in 2007 when the economy was a lot different than now. A better guide is looking at ebay or other auction sites to see actual selling prices. 

as best as I could see the offer expired so it didn't sell for $800.
http://cgi.ebay.com/AC-Gilbert-American-Flyer-20425-Train-Set-Excellent-/200591575118

sold for $306 - not certain of when
http://americanflyershop.com/american-flyer-s-gauge-20425-keystone-rocket-freight


If you look at the set separately, Greenburg's American Flyer Pocket Guide (2007) shows:
Description............................Good - Excellent
Switcher Loco 21004 ...............$110 - $410
Rocket Launcher 25045 ..............$16 - $90
Floodlight Car 25549 ..................$15 - $44
Caboose 24626 .........................$9 - $30

Some opinions. If you try to sell it to a collector as a set, remember condition is everything, that means both the rolling stock and paper (boxes, documentation, etc.). GRJohn's point is well taken regarding the care in trying to pick a starting price, and with the cleaning as well. 

Forget Doyle's prices for the set and take time (even if it's a few weeks) to see actual selling prices of your set-if you want to keep it together as a set. This one expires tomorrow:

http://cgi.ebay.com/20425-American-...214359?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item19c52c8fd7

In my opinion the gem of the set is the 21004 loco. I think the 21004 is preferable to the 005 because I believe the 004 has an operating headlight in the tender as well as the boiler, where the 005 only has one light in the boiler. I'm not a collector, I'm an operator, so paying a premium for sets really have no value to me. That said, you may get more by keeping it as a set depending on overall condition. Here is a 21004 that recently sold on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Flyer-...712240?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2c5cdf8030

I hope this gives you a little more information. We're looking forward to seeing more pictures, and let us know what you decide.

Reckers must be on holiday.

Regards,
Rich


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## tjcruiser

Rich,

Great post ... lots of clear, documented info. Well done.

TJ


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## Big Ed

I guess Bardown was a hit and run.

Bye Bye 


E bay? Link? hwell:


Your welcome?


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## BarDown

Sorry guys! Didn't hit and run at all, haven't even had time to put it on eBay yet. 

Rich, thank you very much for your input, I really appreciate you taking the time to post in such great detail.


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## markjs

Hi,
Before you consider Ebay, there is a Yahoo Group named AvailableSGauge whose members buy and sell their American Flyer & other S gauge items. I got some great buys here, and I sold some things without having to pay the Ebay seller fees. Great sight--check it out.


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## ChopperCharles

Did you ever sell this set?

Charles.


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## Reckers

Oops! Didn't look at the date!


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## ChopperCharles

I did, I just wondered what happened, the thread just ended with no more info.

Charles.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

The guy prob. put it on eBay and made a few $$ to be happy. It seemed obvious he didn't want the set.


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