# Lionel 628 44 Ton, Northern Pacific



## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Hi Guys,

You have been much help to my willing but inexperienced capacity.

My newly acquired 44 ton switcher wants to travel. It seems to move well in one direction, but in the opposite direction it seem bound up. I thought may it needed a shim at the armature shaft so I increased it but that did not help in fact it made it worse. The motor will function if you kind of squeeze it up from the bottom.

Any help will be great.

Thanks,

Traintrader64


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Been there.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9479&highlight=626


One washer didn't do the trick, I think I have 3 in there now.

I have the proper parts, just haven't taken the time to put them in.

Watch the end of the armature with the body off. If you see it move up, and the motor stops, add more washers. (You are saying shims, I'm guessing you mean washers.)


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Where did you put the shim?


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Hi,

I placed the thicker shim/washer on the top of the armature shaft. I still see a little movement, so I'm going to try and ad more this morning. I'll get back and let you know what occurred after that. The thread confirmed my suspicions.

Thanks.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Hi,

I believe the problem is that the whole truck chassis is loose at various connection points. I'll have to disassemble and peen connections and see what the results are. Thanks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Wear in the gears of that truck can also cause issues with that piece. I used to have one, but I no longer have it.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Doesn't that loco have a tiny ball-bearing (or b.b. ring) that goes in line with the shaft, too? Have you lost the ball bearing?

TJ


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Hey TJ,

You bring up a good question. I have not seen a ball bearing to date. I looked in my Greenburg's repair and operating manual for Lionel, the entry for the switcher is minimal.

As I look at the truck with bar-end fastening, I'm sure that the loose wheel chassis is the primary cause. A friend of mine suggesting using epoxy, but being somewhat of a purist I want to try re-peening the bar ends.

If you could explain, or had a picture of the bearing and placement, the fact that I don't have one could certainly be a hindering factor.

Thanks,

Traintrader64


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ball bearing, part 600-110 ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc625p1.pdf

Similar to the setup shown on this 600 series switcher (I think) ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc600p2.pdf

You might need a "Thrust Collar", too, as shown in the diagram above.

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I've never worked on a switcher (I'm a steamer guy), so what I've said is based only on what I've read.

T-Man had worked on a different Lionel loco a while back ... one that had a ball bearing ring ... several balls rotating within ring set. That got me thinking about your loco. After reading, I think your loco has just one ball ... not a whole ring. But to complete the thought process, here's a look at T-Man's other loco ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=101201&postcount=54

TJ


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Hey TJ,

The picture makes some sense. There is a hole in a black plastic bottom cap which lines up with the armature shaft. If that ball was absent there would be all sorts of vertical shaft movement. I'll give it a go.

Thanks,

TT64


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Hey Guys,

I did manage to gain some success.

I checked for the ball bearing. It's there, about .0625 I'd say, maybe a bit smaller. I considered placing another ball there or a plug under the existing one. I may still try that. Instead I placed about .0625 of shim made of phenolic above the existing steel thrust shim. I oiled it, put it back together. It works both directions. There is still a bit of resistance so there's more to be done. But it runs well enough to enjoy it.

I will report regarding a plug below the ball if I try that.

Thanks for your help!

TT64


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Do you have the Thrust Collar on the armature shaft, too? See the pdf pic in my post, above. That will help take up some "gap".

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I am not sure it will be easy to disassemble the truck enough to peen the bar ends. I had this problem on a 44 ton loco many years ago, and I fixed it with 4 twists of a pair of needle nose pliers. I put the needle nose pliers in the appropriate place and gave the side plates a slight twist to tighten them up. That was 35 years ago, and the loco still runs good.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Yes I have all the thrust washers on the armature.

Great idea with the needle noses. I'll try that before complete dis assembly. 35 years, that should be good.

Thanks.
TT64


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Ok. So, I took out the bearing, placed a small plug below the bearing replaced the armature, and...not so good. It did not want to to go either direction. So I made everything as it was when it worked well, and it still did not work well.

Alas, I will have to tackle it later as I have other priorities screaming. So when I get opportunity I'm going to take the truck apart as far as I dare, and snug up the bar end rivets.

Thanks for all your input.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

This is a very common problem with that motor style. 'The bound up in one direction' problem is usually due to misalignment of the magnet stack that surrounds the commutator of the motor. The best way to repair it is to drill out the rivets that secure the stack to the frame and carefully realign the stack and re-rivet. Sometimes you can carefully whack the stack into alignment with a hammer. I had this problem with the same locomotive a few years back and sent it to the motor doctor who got it running by making the correct repair.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Thanks for that information.

Makes sense because you can tell the motor wants to run.

Do I simply use a feeler gauge to measure the alignment?

Thanks again.

TT64


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The easy way is to get a new top or brush plate. Replacing the bushing rivet is more technical. You can always do it later. 

Will we every see this engine??

All I have is a 600 MKT Diesel Switcher. Oddly enough when I tighten my brshplate down I twist it clockwise and it runs fine. So my bushing is gone too.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

If I can find time, I'll get some pictures up, it may well, help me learn more.

Thanks,

TT64


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I fixed one of these motors a while back by using a Dremel tool with a sanding drum to grind away part of the field to make clearance for the armature. I don't recall it took very long. The motor was made wrong as I couldn't find any loose bearings.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can do a lot of damage in a little time with a Dremel tool!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

It is easy to see where the clearance problem is. There should be marks on the field laminations. You are also grinding steel which doesn't grind very fast. I don't think there is a problem with damaging anything as the clearance between the armature and the field core isn't very critical.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Well, I took it apart. I found that the mounting pins which the brush housing screws to, hold the field to the truck plate. Those pins are split at the end like a cotter and a little bit of it protrudes into the armature space, and it's worsened by the wearing of the bottom armature shaft hole which enables it to hit them.

I placed some tin foil around the circumference of the bottom end of the shaft to take up some of the space, it made a significant difference. If I actually had a jewelers lathe I'd build a bushing to bush it.

I also have the equivalent of three washers/shims on the top of the armature shaft under the brush housing. It's more responsive than it has been up to this point.

Forgot to mention, the motor picture. The shaft stays at this position both directions now. Before shimming that shaft would shift upward about a sixteenth of an inch.

Thanks again for all the info.

TT64


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have used aluminum cans for shims. If I remember correctly they are about 0.003.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Well, I took it apart ground the protrusion. Put it back together without the aluminum foil. Functions sporadically. Will have to bush it again.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

Yes!!

I re-bushed the bottom end that sits in plastic with the little ball beneath it. I used a piece of A&W Rootbeer can. Not a big soda drinker, but love rootbeer floats. The bushing sat a little high so I used a 1/16" Dremel diamond ball to make it even with the plastic. Be very careful of the primary gear that is very near this point if you attempt to duplicate the process.

Put it all back together with only the fiber washer I made. It would not run. I pushed and turned the armature shaft repeatedly. Eventually it started to run on its own power slowly. Back and forth about 15 times on a short test track and it lapped itself in.

It now functions perfectly, both directions. I can begin slow as a train does, and speed it up to full throttle.

Thanks again for all your input. If you guys have need of pictures please let me know. I'm a photographer and can get specific shots.

TT64
44 ton 628 fixed.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I would like to see the pictures.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

To push the picture idea, get a photobucket acct just for use here. Upload a mess of pics there and link a few here. It is the easiest way I know and I handle a lot of pictures. Try not to store them in a large format use something that is suitable here like 600 0r 800 across, it is more than enough.


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## Traintrader64 (Aug 13, 2009)

*Shim & Bushing Pictures*

Hi Guys,

Sorry to post these pictures here. I've only included the two most important ones.

The shim, fiber is equivalent to almost three of the originals. The bushing: nothing special, soda can aluminum. Note shiny rim of the bushing, and the ball in the bottom.

The only other question I had regarding this successful remedy is what lubes you may suggest.

And yes, I did clean some of the excess grease and grime out before I reassembled it.

Thanks again.

Until next time,
TT64


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Use 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil. It never dries out or gets gummy. I have used motor oil for my trains for 50 years.


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