# HO vs. O Scale for newbie



## Hojack_Line

OK, well first post here, so hi to all. I am a 40yr old father who has a soon to be 4yr old son who loves trains. Loves to see them, loves to talk about them, and loves to play with them. When I was a kid I had a typical 4x8 setup in my basement HO scale. It has been 25 years at least since I had that setup maybe longer. I also love trains and really enjoy watching them and seeing my son play with them.

Ok, that being said. He wants a trainset for Christmas, but I do not want to just buy him a box set and throw it on the floor and have it stepped on and broken. So I am going to setup a minimum space of 4x8 maybe go bigger if need be. Problem is I just don't know what scale is the best. I went into a local Hobby store and the owner told me go with Lionel. I agree the Lionels look great, but the "modeling" looks generic when I look at some setups in person and on youtube for example. Just something about it looks toyish and the trains are never to scale with the building etc. HO is smaller and more delicate, but it seems easier to model. Mind you this isn't just for him, I am being a little selfish and also thinking if I am going to do this with him I want to enjoy it also. So the though of making some scenary etc is appealing.

What do you more experienced people think would be the best path to follow. The clock is ticking and Santa is coming so I am running out of time. Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. I am started to get confused looking at all this stuff.

Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays!!!!

Derek - Fairport, NY


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## Reckers

My opinion shouldn't count for much, since I don't run HO or O. *L* However, I do have experience with kids. Children are very touch-oriented: your son will want to pick them up and handle them. He's also going to need to be able to get the wheels to the rails. If it's too delicate or difficult, he'll get frustrated and lose interest. So...buy both. Do a simple loop around the perimeter with his train, the (inexpensive) Lionel. He then can reach his big train without reaching across the HO set (yours) on the interior. He can run his train and derail without taking out your train and buildings. You can play together. When he gets old enough, remove the Lionel and share the HO setup. Can you afford to do both?


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## Reckers

...and by the way, welcome to the forum, Derek!


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## tankist

welcome. 
best scale is the one you like the best. 

scale arguments can get flame'ey and with that in mind - for me its HO. and from what i see HO is more "model" scale while O is mostly "toy" 

_since this forum is populated by mostly 3 railers, tankist sees all the rotten tomatoes flying his way and hides behind riot shield. ( starts fueling the flamethrower_ :evil: _ ) _


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## Reckers

tankist is right---you do have to be satisfied with the setup, or you'll be frustrated and give up, too. However, think of how nice a two-tiered setup would look with the big Lionel racing around the bottom and your HO inside that loop, winding thru tunnels and up inclines. I'm still down for both sizes. Just think of it this way...three rails for children, then two for grown men. It's like training wheels on a bicycle. *LOL* Run, Tankist, they're coming for us!!!


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## Hojack_Line

Thank for the replies. To answer the question of running HO and Lionel. I could afford it, didn't think about that option. Might be something to consider for sure. I love the size and the look of the Lionels, but the buildings and accessories just seem a little too unrealistic to me. I am sure they are much more durable though and also more expensive. I don't have a gigantic room to put it in either. I would think I could do 10x15 or so at most for now. I would like to have at least 2 trains going on different lines at a time also. The DCC trains I love. My son would love that also. Brings a new "real" element into the whole thing. Thats why I want this on a board so there will be no moving the track around. He does like the hands on thing, but we have tons of stuff already around the house train related so I was going to explain to him that this set was more for display and that he can operate it. That plan might backfire, but it sounds good right now. For those who use HO track is Atlas 83 the most realistic? I like that as opposed to the kind where the bed is attached to the track like on the snap on stuff. Any suggestions there?


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## tankist

i use code 100 atlas, its pretty realistic if you ask me, certainly more so then old school "O" with 3 sleepers per section ( no ofence Tman  ) . i also don't like integrated roadbed track, BUT toy layout for a child i think it (integrated roadbed) is the optimal solution as it adds ruggedness. 

however if i ever start over i would use 83 or even 70-75 despite them being harder to find.

i don't like the idea of using 2 scales on same layout, besides the expence, its not really realistic. IMHO


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## Hojack_Line

Tankist, I see you have foam under your tracks. Curious as to why you use it there? How did you decide on your layout? Did you find it somewhere or create it yourself? 
Thanks


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## tankist

Hojack_Line said:


> Tankist, I see you have foam under your tracks. Curious as to why you use it there? How did you decide on your layout? Did you find it somewhere or create it yourself?
> Thanks


with foam i got the ability to dig in and lower the track (so to fit under my bridges). able to shape the "terrain" - i hate flatness . it also noise supressor, coupled with cork roadbed it is really nice. 

deciding on layout was hard, i started with double loop with one double crossover, didn't like that and looked at how to improve. somehow it evolved to what i plan now.


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## Big Ed

I see a flame war is brewing!

First off welcome too the site.

Second your post should be O verses HO
Not HO verses O.

If you don't have the room HO is for you then. Just teach him that the trains will break and you got to be very care full with them. Also let him give you a hand building it. Even the smallest thing I think he would enjoy it.

Heck reckers I have a hard time putting the wheels on. lol
I never looked for one but I have a ramp thing for my N scale that you put the cars on and it just rolls down onto the track nice, no fidgeting around with the wheels. Don't they sell these for HO too? All it is is a plastic ramp.

Kids will be kids but if you teach them right they will respect the trains.
Accidents will happen. Heck I have broke some through out the years myself. And I'm sure others have too.lol

Now let the flame war begin!


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## tankist

big ed said:


> Heck reckers I have a hard time putting the wheels on. lol
> I never looked for one but I have a ramp thing for my N scale that you put the cars on and it just rolls down onto the track nice, no fidgeting around with the wheels. Don't they sell these for HO too? All it is is a plastic ramp.


they have it in HO as well of course. however i almost never used my.

disregarding your " no X vs Y but Y vs X" comment (since i did not get it ) as far as scales and size requirements all i can say that both clubs i've been to model HO despite the fact they have lots of space. whatever your preferences are i respect them but when you say "model railroad" without anything further, chances are you reffer to HO since thats where the bulk of MRR is at. while O scale has some prototipical enough stuff, is more synonimous with "toy train", at least for me. 

there! is it enough fuel for now


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## Reckers

Ed,

In AF S scale, they have something called a re-railer that's supposed to line the wheels up all nice and purty for you and ease your car onto the track. This is because anyone still running AF S scale is so old, we can no longer see the track, much less the wheels.


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## Big Ed

tankist said:


> they have it in HO as well of course. however i almost never used my.
> 
> disregarding your " no X vs Y but Y vs X" comment (since i did not get it ) as far as scales and size requirements all i can say that both clubs i've been to model HO despite the fact they have lots of space. whatever your preferences are i respect them but when you say "model railroad" without anything further, chances are you reffer to HO since thats where the bulk of MRR is at. while O scale has some prototipical enough stuff, is more synonimous with "toy train", at least for me.
> 
> there! is it enough fuel for now


That ramp comes in real handy for the placement of N cars. Have you ever had N?
I never used one for HO. (never seen one or looked for one in HO either )

I was thinking for the kid to put the trains on the track instead of trying to hand place them on it like reckers mentioned.
Good tool for the youngster to load them on the track.

I take "Model Railroading" as any scale. Not just HO. I have seen nice "model railroads" in all scales. 
The clubs your talking about must be HO clubs then?

Guess they don't have any O clubs around your area?


O are toys?
And HO are not? 
Then what do you call all the other gauges?



















I like ALL" Model Railroads"


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## Hojack_Line

Yeah I think the way for me to go with this idea is HO scale. I love the Lionel's as far as the details of the engines, cars, etc, but what I might do there is put up a display case on the wall and collect things and use them for display only for now. I figure with HO, IF my son broke something it wouldn't be a killer to replace unlike some of those Lionel trains that are expensive. 

I have a good area to put the setup in, but now the hardest part is a layout. This is a Christmas present and he has his heart set on it so I need to come up with something quick. I am not the kind of person who buys something with intent to upgrade down the line, I am more the type to buy what I think I will want and hope I am right, if that makes sense. I love the DCC idea because of the sounds and I think my son would love it. Plus if you can press buttons and hear different things he would get into that. 

I know it is unrealistic to think I will have any "good" layout in place given the limited amount of time, but maybe if I start with a simple loop and a couple switches and an inner loop for now so he has it Christmas day that would be ok, then I can change it up and get more complicated after the fact. 

Do most of you guys like layouts that run multiple trains continuously or do you like layouts where you are working a yard more and manipulating the trains more? Curious on that. ( I know it is personal preference, I am just curious as to what some of you guys have layout style wise).

Thanks!!


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## Big Ed

Hojack_Line said:


> Yeah I think the way for me to go with this idea is HO scale. I love the Lionel's as far as the details of the engines, cars, etc, but what I might do there is put up a display case on the wall and collect things and use them for display only for now. I figure with HO, IF my son broke something it wouldn't be a killer to replace unlike some of those Lionel trains that are expensive.
> 
> I have a good area to put the setup in, but now the hardest part is a layout. This is a Christmas present and he has his heart set on it so I need to come up with something quick. I am not the kind of person who buys something with intent to upgrade down the line, I am more the type to buy what I think I will want and hope I am right, if that makes sense. I love the DCC idea because of the sounds and I think my son would love it. Plus if you can press buttons and hear different things he would get into that.
> 
> I know it is unrealistic to think I will have any "good" layout in place given the limited amount of time, but maybe if I start with a simple loop and a couple switches and an inner loop for now so he has it Christmas day that would be ok, then I can change it up and get more complicated after the fact.
> 
> Do most of you guys like layouts that run multiple trains continuously or do you like layouts where you are working a yard more and manipulating the trains more? Curious on that. ( I know it is personal preference, I am just curious as to what some of you guys have layout style wise).
> 
> Thanks!!


Just start a 4x8 with a simple oval or figure eight or two ovals for two trains to run.. Then after Christmas you can do it better.
You know Christmas is next week.

I like lots of running trains and having yards both together. Passenger and working trains together.
But for the kid I think he would just enjoy running them around and around to start. If your getting a passenger set some stations would be nice to stop at.

It doesn't take much to please a young kid.

I think he will love whatever you end up doing!

One thing about O is (I think) they have a bigger selection of working accessories to keep the RR interesting. But I agree O takes up a bunch of space!


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## alcoman

Back when my kids were small and I was trying to build my first HO layout, I put a track at the edge of the table just for them. It was connected so they could get 'deliveries'. There were some train cars I got at a yard sale and some Matchbox cars and toy animals just for them. The more breakable and expensive stuff was farther back. Their favorite cars were gondolas. They would load up the toys. I would take the cars around the layout a couple of times and then put their cars back on the siding. Worked good for us.

What scale you want is a matter of personal preference. Making the kids a part of it doesn't have to be either difficult or expensive.


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## Boston&Maine

tankist said:


> while O scale has some prototipical enough stuff, is more synonimous with "toy train", at least for me.
> 
> there! is it enough fuel for now


I'm telling ya', there are two different types of O... The ones that look "toyish" and those that are just as detailed as HO scale


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## Reckers

I can answer that for tankist. He calls the other gauges "Sir".


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## tankist

Boston&Maine said:


> I'm telling ya', there are two different types of O... The ones that look "toyish" and those that are just as detailed as HO scale






> while O scale has some prototipical enough stuff...


^^^^
never said it didn't.


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## Reckers

I suspect that with any gauge, you get what you pay for. A cheap train will look like a cheap train, no matter what gauge. A quality "O" will look it, as will a quality HO. Except tankists HO.


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## JungleJim

Hojack_Line said:


> OK, well first post here, so hi to all. I am a 40yr old father who has a soon to be 4yr old son who loves trains.....
> What do you more experienced people think would be the best path to follow.
> Derek - Fairport, NY



I am not experienced, but I am a 45 yr old father who has an 8 yr old son who loves trains. I've had the same decision to make.

After talking to many people, I had decided to go HO. [I had HO as a kid ....I still have most of it in a box somewhere. It was mounted to a board and had two loops with electric switches. It was a pain for me as a young kid to put the cars on the track.]

I thought I was firm in my HO decision until I saw a modern O gauge actually running. They have sounds now! The train itself has sound (whistle, bell, deisel engine noise, crew talking, etc.) Lionel calls it "Train Sounds". Kids love sound. I know you can add sound to HO systems, but I'm not sure if we'll have permanent setup at first. Lionel's "Train Sounds" changed my mind over to O gauge for my son.

If it was just for me, I'd still be considering HO.


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## Reckers

Sounds like you have your answer.


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## Hojack_Line

Well I was sorta swaying towards HO, but after reading peopls posts and looking all over the internet I learned there was something called O Scale. Which if I understand it correctly is a little different that O Gauge. Could something explain this a little. Track wise is there a difference or is the track the same and the train size different? The way I am interpreting it is o guage is the more common toy style setup and o scale is a scaled down version of the real thing, more realistic. This might change my mind from HO, because that was my whole issue at the start was the lack of realism, but if o scale is easier to model and more realistic then that might be the way to go. Only question would then be the size area I would have to allocate, that could be a deal breaker. Some of these setups I see people having are huge. For those of you who use o Scale what make of trains do you most often purchase? MTH?

Thanks!!


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## Big Ed

Hojack_Line said:


> Well I was sorta swaying towards HO, but after reading peopls posts and looking all over the internet I learned there was something called O Scale. Which if I understand it correctly is a little different that O Gauge. Could something explain this a little. Track wise is there a difference or is the track the same and the train size different? The way I am interpreting it is o guage is the more common toy style setup and o scale is a scaled down version of the real thing, more realistic. This might change my mind from HO, because that was my whole issue at the start was the lack of realism, but if o scale is easier to model and more realistic then that might be the way to go. Only question would then be the size area I would have to allocate, that could be a deal breaker. Some of these setups I see people having are huge. For those of you who use o Scale what make of trains do you most often purchase? MTH?
> 
> Thanks!!







Gauge is the width of the track. Only trains that fit the track will run on it.
Which Gauges Are Most Lionel Trains?
Most Lionel trains run on two similar, related track gauges: O gauge and O-27 gauge.

What's the Difference?
Curves in O-27 gauge are tighter than in O gauge. That means that some of the very longest O gauge cars and locomotives are too long to turn the tight corners of O-27 gauge layout though you can buy a larger radius in the O/27 track to take care of that problem. All O-27 gauge cars and locomotives will work on O gauge track. 

The bigger the radius the bigger the train you can run on it. O/27 radius goes up to O/54. O gauge radius you can get up to O/72.


O gauge track is 1.25" wide and 11/16" high
O/27 track is 1.25" wide and only 7/16" high

You can use the two together but you have to shim up the o/27 to mate level with the O.


If you don't have a lot of room you should go with HO gauge or even N gauge.

Some say HO gauge is more realistic then O gauge.

This picture is part of my ever under construction RR. note this part is 8'x8'.
And the roundhouse and turntable take up most of it.

View attachment 1003


A comparison picture of the gauges.
biggest O, next HO, the smallest is N gauge.

Hopes this helps you in your decision a little.



View attachment 1004


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## Hojack_Line

Well when it comes to space I have approx 14x12 for sure and possibly another 4x10 I could add off of that. So that would make for a big HO setup or a decent o scale maybe.


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## Big Ed

Hojack_Line said:


> Well when it comes to space I have approx 14x12 for sure and possibly another 4x10 I could add off of that. So that would make for a big HO setup or a decent o scale maybe.


I would say that's a good size for O.


I just added to the other above thread a picture of different sized trains in one picture. check it out.


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