# Bachmann GP7 - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly



## xrunner

*The Bad*

I got the GP7 yesterday and placed it on the tracks. Nothing. No lights, no movement Zero, Zip, Zilch. After futzing with it for a while there was nothing left but to call Micro Mark and ask how to return it. I aksed if I wanted another one that they test it first so we don't have to do this again. 
"Oh, we can't test them."
"Why not?"
"Becasue we don't have any track set up to test them"
"But you sell locomotives, track, and controllers but you have no means to even try one out?"
"That's right."
"OK, well I might buy more tools from you but if you sell trains and have no means to even test them out I won't be buying any more trains from you, I'll return the engine for a refund"

:thumbsdown:

*The Ugly*

Not to give up, I tried removing the case. It wouldn't budge. Unlike my Kato and Atlas, which open easily, this thing was acting like it was glued shut. So I tried calling Bachmann tech support. Basically the guy I talked to was an idiot, and that's being nice. I'm not going to type everything that went down, because it makes me aggravated even now, but he was clueless as to how to open the case. Complete idiot and had no business working for the company. I ended up prying with screwdrivers as suggested to the point on the plastic breaking and it wouldn't move. He was talking to some other guy who was telling him what to tell me, and I asked if I could just talk to that guy directly. He told me the other guy didn't speak English well enough to communicate with me. Well how the hell are you communicating with him? I asked him to point me to the page on the website where it shows how to take off the case. He said he was 74 years old and wasn't familiar with computers and couldn't help me with that. I ended the call to the idiot.

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

*The Good*

I called back and asked to elevate the problem, and got a manager, a lady. She at least tried to help me troubleshoot it and we worked on getting the case off again. No matter how much I pried as suggested it would not move. She offered to send me a replacement right away, and with the case removed so I could see how it fitted. I accepted the offer.

:thumbsup:

This was bugging the crap out of me though. How could the case not come off any differently than other locos, and why did this new engine not even work? When I opened the box I could tell it was pristine and hadn't been touched since it left the factory. I had to find out. I got some toothpicks and other small tools and started prying and putting toothpicks in to hold what I got pushed, and it started to move. I finally got the case off. It was no different than other locos, but it fitted waaaaay to tight! Bad design.

Now, why did this thing not work? I took the trucks off and they were filled with grease. On my other 2 locos there is hardly enough lube to even see, but this thing was packed with grease like an Army tank! Not only that, there was a greasy/oily film on most everything, even where the contacts for the DCC board were, and when I looked at those contacts I saw that 2 of them were bent up so as to not touch the case, so that was a problem. I cleaned off the film everywhere and removed much of the grease. I attached clip leads to the motor from the track and it ran that way.

I removed the DCC board and cleaned it, and bent the contacts back down. I then tried another test with clip leads and it worked. I then put it all back together and put it on the track, and it ran like a top. It actually runs as quietly as my other 2 engines.

I'm taking it to my LHS this morning for a DCC test as I don't have the DCC system yet, but I suspect it's going to be fine. I don't know who assembled this thing but the quality control is horrible at their supplier in China. I suppose I'll keep it, but I can't recommend this model to anyone, and I hope none of you have to call Bachmann tech support - ever.


----------



## Big4fan

Had a similar experience with Bachman customer service over the email looking for parts for one of their Spectrum dash 8-40's. I needed a fuel tank, a set of hand rails, windshields, horns, and exhaust vent which were nowhere in the package of a "new undecorated" unit.

Bachman: "we don't sell those seperately..." Me: Um you aparently don't sell them with the engines either... 
Bachman: "We sugguest you buy a decorated model and use the parts from it..." Me: seriously? 
Bachman: "yes we don't sell the undecorated accesories seperately.." Me: But this is a "New engine" and it doesn't have the parts with it.. 
Bachman: "sorry we don't sell the parts seperately."Me: well it will be a long time before you sell "any parts" to me.

So I called the dealer where I bought the engine, apparently it had been sold before and returned because the engine was too big for the guy's layout... I have a feeling this guy had called or emailed Bachman before visiting the hobby shop... and the !5% restock fee was the price he paid for a fuel tank, handrails, horns, & exhaust vent.

So I got another undecorated engine on ebay & used its parts. (I have an undecorated Dash 8-40 with no handrails, fueltank, exhaust vent or wind shields in my box now for spare parts...)hwell:


----------



## xrunner

When you look at it up close you can see it isn't the quality of an Atlas or Kato - I guess that's how it can be sold for ~$65. You get what you pay for. It just has that 2nd tier quality to it all. The copper contacts coming up from the trucks don't go to another set of copper rails like my other engines - they just touch the case and there is simply a non-painted area on the case for them to make contact, and the metal there wasn't clean or bright at all. That's another thing I did - cleaned and polished that metal area. I pretty much almost did a depot level clean and inspect on my own. hwell:

Like I said it's running right now pretty well, and I suppose I'll keep it, perhaps as a reminder to not buy another one, and to remember, always remember - you get what you pay for.


----------



## THE TYCO MAN

Bachmann's first run's and rerun's usually have QC issues. I wanna buy the newest N releases, the 4-6-0, 2-10-2 and the re-released DD40AX! I'll wait a year or two so I know they got the new designs and kinks pulled out. I have had talking to them via e-mail. I got 2 steamers of theres they said thats too old to get parts for and said send them in and pay $15 and they'll replace it!


----------



## Big4fan

THE TYCO MAN said:


> I got 2 steamers of theres they said thats too old to get parts for and said send them in and pay $15 and they'll replace it!


I wish they'd have made me that offer....


----------



## xrunner

The LHS tested the DCC and all is well.

Something else about this model is - it has no flywheels.


----------



## shaygetz

There's a reason we oldtimers call them "Botchmann" :thumbsup:

...still love their HO though, ironic when you consider that they started out in N back in the 60s....


----------



## xrunner

I'm ready for you Bachmann! Throw everything ya got my way I'll handle it!


----------



## Artieiii

Xrunner,








There's 2 kinds of men in this world....those with loaded guns (and handrails) and those who dig......You dig. No offense intended just some lighthearted clint eastwood humor. 
-Art


----------



## tjcruiser

X,

Nice detective work / fix. Too funny about the excess China grease!

TJ


----------



## deboardfam

Hmm.. that sucks.. I was looking forward to getting a good review so I could get a good deal on an engine. What if I bought bachmann straight from the LHS and inspected it first.


----------



## xrunner

deboardfam said:


> What if I bought bachmann straight from the LHS and inspected it first.


Yea that would be better. They could at least test it out, that's the main thing.


----------



## jzrouterman

There's one universal thing you can count on about a Bachmann engine, be it HO or N. It will either run very well, or not at all.  Speaking about reps not knowing what you're talking about, that's like going to the tool department in Sears and the salesman has no clue about the tool you're interested in.  Or walking up to a Walmart associate for help, and she says "sorry, but no speak english.  The real scary part about all of this is that there are business execs who find this completely acceptable. 

I guess I'm too much of an old folgy, as back in my day when you walked into a shoe store, the salesperson knew about shoes. In a hardware store, the salesperson knew about hardware. In a fabric store, the sales person knew about fabrics. In the LHS, the salesperson knew about trains.

Routerman


----------



## deboardfam

Bought an atlas yesterday at the hobby shop.. other than not being able to figure out how to change the address...it runs great and really quiet.


----------



## xrunner

jzrouterman said:


> There's one universal thing you can count on about a Bachmann engine, be it HO or N. It will either run very well, or not at all.


It runs well now, and very quietly, probably due to all the lube still left on the gears. I removed tons of it but short of putting it all in a parts cleaner I can't get it all off. I'm also trying my hand at some detail painting. There are several problems with the paint scheme relative to the real UP GP7, one of which is the red stripe at the bottom goes all around the real one, on the model they didn't paint it on the front and back ends. I'm also painting some of the vents black as seen in real photos. I also filed away some of the metal on the 4 nubs on the chassis - now it comes apart a lot easier. In addition I polished the chassis metal where the contacts for the DCC board touch, and where the truck pickups touch. I don't want to exchange it for a new one now due to all the work I've done to it!



> Speaking about reps not knowing what you're talking about, that's like going to the tool department in Sears and the salesman has no clue about the tool you're interested in.  Or walking up to a Walmart associate for help, and she says "sorry, but no speak english.  The real scary part about all of this is that there are business execs who find this completely acceptable.


Especially the friggin' company technical rep who works for the company that made ... well at least designed it. Maybe Bachmann didn't even design it - I don't know what some American companies actually do anymore, maybe they are just glorified resellers of Chinese goods. Shameful performance on Bachmann's end, but at least the lady supervisor tried to make up for the lack of competence. I can tell pretty quickly whether or not somebody knows what they are talking about, and I lose patience. It's just a little model train that comes apart like most of the rest - what did the guy think - that they invented some new type of assembly just for this model?


----------



## jzrouterman

Runner, I'm with you on this one. There's nothing worse than having that "gotten ripped off" feeling, especially when those doing the ripping don't seem to care.  Glad you've been able to fix it and get it going. 

Routerman


----------



## Smokinapankake

I've got a Life Like GP-20 that I experienced much the same as you describe here. I bought it off Ebay so had no recourse to the manufacturer, but man oh man did that thing run like crap. 

I even hard wired the truck pickups to the frame; still no improvement. 

Only after digging WAY deep and removing the gears and wheelsets did I realize the contacts (which were on the outer side of the wheels) were greased up mighty sloppy-like. Cleaned it all up with some 90% isopropanol alcohol and reassembled and did it run well! That was 5 years ago, and if I keep the wheel treads clean then this little 20 buck jobbie runs as well as or better than anything I have! It looks really nice too with sharp paint and excellent detailing. 
I'd definitely buy Life-like again!


----------



## xrunner

Smokinapankake said:


> Only after digging WAY deep and removing the gears and wheelsets did I realize the contacts (which were on the outer side of the wheels) were greased up mighty sloppy-like. Cleaned it all up with some 90% isopropanol alcohol and reassembled and did it run well! That was 5 years ago, and if I keep the wheel treads clean then this little 20 buck jobbie runs as well as or better than anything I have! It looks really nice too with sharp paint and excellent detailing.
> I'd definitely buy Life-like again!


I have taken this one completely apart and put it back together. I figured it was only $57 so it wold be worth it as a learning experience. When I separated the frame I found grease slopped in the drive channels. There is no reason for that grease to be there, in fact it probably makes more friction than it removes. 

I put the frames in my ultrasonic cleaner with a few drops of soap and it took all the grease off really well. I then did the same thing to the trucks. The tiny wires broke off very quickly to the motor, probably because they stripped them incorrectly and there was only a few strands of wire soldered. I fixed that as well. I got some model train oil approved for plastic and assembled the little bugger putting only a few drops of oil here and there, instead of the mounds of gloppy gooey grease they had on it. Right now it runs pretty good and I just got my DCC system yesterday and it responds to that as well. I've changed it's address to match the road # and for now it will serve it's purpose as a switcher. I doubt I'll buy another one though, unless I get bored and want a project.


----------



## xrunner

I haven't been satisfied wit the performance of the GP7. It buzzes at low speeds and doesn't respond well to speed increases at low speeds, so I decided to do a brain transplant on it. I got a Digitrax DZ125 today at the LHS. I removed the crappy decoder board it came with and tapped two holes on the top. I attached the power pickups to those screws and soldered the motor wires to the motor. Lo and behold, when I tested it on the tracks it responded wonderfully and no motor buzzing! Well worth the $20 for the decoder. Now the question is, do you like the way it looks or should I move forward with the LEDs?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, I think we'd have to see how it looks stock before we suggest LED's.


----------



## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, I think we'd have to see how it looks stock before we suggest LED's.


LOL.

I quit for tonight - it's tight but I think it will fit. For the LEDs I may use one of the original light boards from one of my Kato engines (they're all converted to DCC now). Several of them have surface mount LEDs and are very small vertically. I can saw off the ends of the boards and use the piece with the SMD on each end of the chassis. 

Right now I'm watching the Matrix (for the 123rd time) it never get's too old.


----------



## NIMT

I was going to suggest that you cut off all the components on the stock board except the LEDs and resistors on the ends.


----------



## Xnats

With that Digitrax decoder, there are no lights Adding them will sure cause misery and pain but at least the Engine will have working headlights hwell: maybe :laugh: Have you thought about forcing a plug and play to work, at least they have the lights on board to start.


----------



## xrunner

NIMT said:


> I was going to suggest that you cut off all the components on the stock board except the LEDs and resistors on the ends.


That's one option. Another one is using the simple light board that came with my Kato's. It has almost no components on it and is very thin, and the surface mount LED is very tiny. Cutting up the crappy board that came with this engine is something I might do anyway due to it's - well - overall crappiness.



Xnats said:


> With that Digitrax decoder, there are no lights Adding them will sure cause misery and pain but at least the Engine will have working headlights hwell: maybe :laugh: Have you thought about forcing a plug and play to work, at least they have the lights on board to start.


I don't think it's going to be that bad. I'll post pics later today. Right now the thing runs and a preliminary fitting of the shell was successful.

But the real question is _why_ does it run better? With the crappy Bachmann board it buzzed at low speeds and took until 25 - 30 on the controller clicker before it would go faster than the initial start speed. I futzed with start voltage a lot and nothing would change much how it operated at low speeds. With the Digitrax module it runs great at low speeds with no tweaking, doesn't buzz, and has a good response throughout the low speed range. I wonder if the RFI suppression components on the Bachmann board have something to do with it's performance. I don't know.

Take a look at the board below and you can see the two large coils, which are not on the Digitrax board.

*Bachmann Board*










*Digitrax Board*


----------



## Xnats

I was not to impressed with Bachmann boards either. I have their 40 ton switcher sitting in the help pile, waiting for a transplant. That will be my goal after xmas though. Now lets see you solder on some micro lights and I'll bow and mail mine to you


----------



## xrunner

Here's the final result. The only problem I had was I needed to apply more black paint inside the shell due to some new light leakage, and of course I had to manipulate all the stuff so it would fit. But it really is an improvement over the Bachmann decoder.


----------



## flyvemaskin

The newer bachman steamers are super good runners, I have the following I've got in the last year, 2-8-0's four, one 4-6-0 and it to runs great. The older stuff is junk in my book unless one spends the time to repower them with Atlas or kato motors. The little Model Power moguls,(2-6-0) also runs great btw.


----------



## xrunner

flyvemaskin said:


> The older stuff is junk in my book unless one spends the time to repower them with Atlas or kato motors.


Well, this little guy was *brand new*. I don't know if you read the whole thread but it was Dead On Arrival, right out of the box, and Bachmann's tech support guy was worse than useless. It only ran well when I replaced the decoder with a Digitrax. Anyway, I won't be buying another Bachmann product, for a while anyway.


----------

