# Lionel Lion Chief Plus Smoke Unit Issues



## Martin (Mar 4, 2016)

I purchased a Lion Chief Plus Atlantic Coastline last summer. Had it for one month and no smoke on Power Unit. Train shop tech fixed it saying broken wire.

However, he said there was too much liquid smoke in the chamber. 
Said only do 2 drops in each end unit. Doing this I found it was not smoking or very little and I had to blow in to the holes to get it started but it only smoked a short while. (this is occurring with power and dummy units) At York I spoke to Lionel and they said smoke lasts like maybe 20 minutes of run time.

Owners Manual says 4 drops in each hole but when I called Lionel they said 2 drops in 2 holes but perhaps try the center ones.

I notice I get the best smoke when I run it like 20 minutes and its standing still after blowing hard in to the holes but once I start running again the smoke stops billowing.

Pardon my language but what the hell is going on? I am looking for advice and common experiences.

Lionel said they would look at it as its under warranty but if there is nothing wrong they might charge me when I send it back to them.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Well, I can tell you that a club member who has a LC+ GP7 has issues with his smoke unit. It smokes, but the fan doesn't work. He has another LC+ GP7 and the fan works, but it has other issues. 

It's possible you have too much fluid in the unit. Run the engine a short while with the smoke unit on and see if it starts to work. I had LC+ GP7 and it didn't always smoke good. Then there were times when it smoked real good. I had to run it a few minutes before it would smoke good. I'm just going by how I dealt with mine.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

My lionchief plus steamer said a tiny amount as well in the manual. It has to be a mistake. I took it apart and 4 drops is a joke for a fan unit. After a couple of hours the smoke batting was completely charged and unusable. The stock batting is also a joke. I replaced my batting with the Lionel rope wick and I now use 20 drops in the smoke unit per run. If I do more than that I don't get leaks but it takes longer for it to start smoking. Like minutes. 

I believe they use the same smoke unit in all the plus engines from what I have seen.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

Found my thread about it

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=97450


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Seems like smoke units that are a constant problem would get a redesign or copy MTH in the interest of customer satisfaction. I can't think of a bigger and more constant solvable problem with Lionel's engines than thus one.

I just looked at their 0-8-0 switcher. Electric coupler on the tender only. Come on, it is a switcher. MTH has on both ends. This will be our third MTH purchase; used to ignore but no more.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My Legacy B6 has couplers on both ends, I wonder why they left it off the 0-8-0?


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

I reread the thread again and John's comment. We have two MTH passenger trains and have stayed away because of their control system requirements. But we are going to bite the bullet and start buying MTH when they have something that we need. Lionel is no longer doing the job satisfactorily. And we have over 70 Lionel engines. Kinda senseless QC.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Bill,
My Lionel TMCC 0-8-0 switcher has front and rear Electro couplers.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Mine (17) all work fairly well and smoke okay. These are not smoke units like in premium locos like Legacy and MTH Premier, but mine smoke okay. Not sure what your locos problem is though. Good luck with it.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Lionel certainly struggles with their smoke units.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

seayakbill said:


> Lionel certainly struggles with their smoke units.


I guess I should mention that I had to replace the fan in the smoke unit of my HT16-44 Legacy twice and replace the entire smoke unit in my Lionel Mikado. So I would have to agree with you.


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## Kurtds2 (Feb 5, 2016)

*Let it sit before you run it.*



Martin said:


> I purchased a Lion Chief Plus Atlantic Coastline last summer. Had it for one month and no smoke on Power Unit. Train shop tech fixed it saying broken wire.
> 
> However, he said there was too much liquid smoke in the chamber.
> Said only do 2 drops in each end unit. Doing this I found it was not smoking or very little and I had to blow in to the holes to get it started but it only smoked a short while. (this is occurring with power and dummy units) At York I spoke to Lionel and they said smoke lasts like maybe 20 minutes of run time.
> ...


I have 3 LionChief Plus they all smoke with no issues. The steam locos only smoke when they are moving. Very slow speed produces the most smoke. I just add 4 drops before I run it. Let it sit for a half hour. Takes a minute or two before it starts smoking. The 2 Diesle units have constant smoke. I do the same. Add 4 drops let it sit for 30 minutes and it smokes great. Here is the trick. Put the fluid down the stacks. Blow down the stack or I use a little ball plunger. (Like to clean your ear out) just air. It does the trick. Even if you run you loco the next day you should still have enough fluid to work. My GP38 was a real pain as you had to make sure you adding drops in the middle of the rectangular stack. Very tiny grate like opening for the rectangular stack. Blew down the stack and it worked like it should. Lionel had very limited direction of what to do this is why I made the post after seeing what to do in another board.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, the fan driven smoke units in the LC+ really should have a lot more than 4 drops of smoke fluid. This is one of the typical Lionel copy-n-paste mistakes, they took the text from the LC (not plus) manual that has a totally different smoke unit! The advice for Legacy is 20 drops, and that's really not sufficient to fill a truly dry smoke unit. When I fire up my LC+ steamer, I use 20 drops when it needs a refill.

Note the similarity in size between the Legacy smoke unit and the LC+ smoke unit. The fluid reservoir on the LC+ is smaller, but not by much. It's a different shape with the corners rounded toward the fan motor.


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## Kurtds2 (Feb 5, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> FWIW, the fan driven smoke units in the LC+ really should have a lot more than 4 drops of smoke fluid. This is one of the typical Lionel copy-n-paste mistakes, they took the text from the LC (not plus) manual that has a totally different smoke unit! The advice for Legacy is 20 drops, and that's really not sufficient to fill a truly dry smoke unit. When I fire up my LC+ steamer, I use 20 drops when it needs a refill.
> 
> Note the similarity in size between the Legacy smoke unit and the LC+ smoke unit. The fluid reservoir on the LC+ is smaller, but not by much. It's a different shape with the corners rounded toward the fan motor.
> 
> View attachment 332073


Thanks for the info. Quick question on the LionChief + unit. I took my GP38 apart as I thought my smoke unit was not working right. I found it strange the attached the smoke unit to the top of the shell. I did not try to remove it as I could not tell if it snapped on or if they glued it. My question is can it be removed or is it glued on?

Thanks Kurt


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Geez, I hope not. That would be another check on my 'What The Hell Lionel' list.:smilie_auslachen:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hard to imagine they glued it on, but I don't have one of those to look at. It should be removable, I've never seen a factory installation where you couldn't service the smoke unit.

FWIW, lots of locomotives have the smoke unit attached to the shell, and others have them frame mounted.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Hate to bump an old thread but instead of separating possible answers I figured it was best to do so. Has anyone found a fix? I was told to replace the batting and make a better/bigger intake hole like TMCC needs but I am still wary of this. 

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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A modest increase in the intake hole size will help, and replacing the stock wick almost always helps Lionel smoke units. Those are two steps that I'd do first in your quest for better smoke.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Any particular advice you can give on replacement materials? 

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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I use Lionel braided wick or a very close equivalent. I found some braided wick on eBay some time back that was seemingly identical to the Lionel stuff and a fraction of the price. I have a bunch of it, still not nearly out.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Is the Tiki torch wicking a possible candidate for using in smoke units? I thought I read about here at MTF in the past...

Tom


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Depends on where you get it. Much of it is too coarse for the job. I used to use it, but I moved on to better stuff. The wick I got was braided 1/2" for lamps, but it's finer and softer fibers, works great for smoke unit. I unbraid the wick into smaller strands, they look just like the Lionel wick.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Any suggestions. Can't seem to find the part on the Lionel website. 

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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

GRJ do you have a part number? 

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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lionel 691-SMKP-008


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Lionel 691-SMKP-008


Thanks! 

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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Since I posted on this thread a while back I bought a LC+ NW2 switcher. I'm starting to see problems with me the smoke unit. I'm going to run it and let what fluid is in the unit and see what happens. Right now it works when it feels like it.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Lionel 691-SMKP-008


John what do you think about using Tiki Torch wicks?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Denny, I've had mixed results with Tiki torch wicks, they come in all varieties. I found some 1/2" braided wick on eBay some time back and bought 15 feet of it. I pull the braids apart and get a piece that looks and works identical to the Lionel wick I posted. I'm still using that, though I may have to look again. I think I paid about $10 for the 15 foot piece, and I get several hundred "Lionel type" wicks out of it.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Denny, I've had mixed results with Tiki torch wicks, they come in all varieties. I found some 1/2" braided wick on eBay some time back and bought 15 feet of it. I pull the braids apart and get a piece that looks and works identical to the Lionel wick I posted. I'm still using that, though I may have to look again. I think I paid about $10 for the 15 foot piece, and I get several hundred "Lionel type" wicks out of it.


John, can you tell us if the Tiki torch wick you bought is cotton or nylon?

My local dollar store sells mini Tiki torches with a wick but I am unsure of the wick material as I never looked closely. Could be 4" to 6" for a buck.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

in my experience the dollar store torches are complete junk. If you are looking for cheapest I'd look as something like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-Round-...I0AAOSw5JBamZgu:sc:USPSFirstClass!20148!US!-1

You would want to unweave it as it is thick but would last a life time

I've also used pink insulation from home Depot in some of my older lionel engines if you are looking for really cheap. I wouldn't put that in a lionchief plus though but that would be better than that stupid pad that was in mine to begin with. 

In the end I've found the rope wick lionel sells really does work best in their engines and the rope wick mth sells works best in theirs.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

It seems weird to me that the starter set locos smoke better than the LC+ locos. The starter set locos chuff and blow smoke rings lol the LC+ fan driven smoke units barely smoke. 

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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Funny, that hasn't been my experience. Most of the LC+ stuff I see smokes fine. I'll take fan driven smoke over a puffer any day of the week.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Maybe I am doing something wrong 

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