# lubricants



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I just fixed a blender that my daughter got from her mother. It is about 30 years old. For the last 20+ years, the switch has been stuck. I took it apart and found some parts glued together with grease. The grease looks like the common stuff that was used for a lot of things 30 years ago. I cleaned off the old grease and OILED the appropriate parts with 5W-20 motor oil and put it all together. Works fine. I don't expect to ever have to touch it again. The Lionel experience was very helpful for this repair, and it further emphasizes that grease is probably not good to use on toy trains.

Bruce Baker


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> I just fixed a blender that my daughter got from her mother. It is about 30 years old. For the last 20+ years, the switch has been stuck. I took it apart and found some parts glued together with grease. The grease looks like the common stuff that was used for a lot of things 30 years ago. I cleaned off the old grease and OILED the appropriate parts with 5W-20 motor oil and put it all together. Works fine. I don't expect to ever have to touch it again. The Lionel experience was very helpful for this repair, and it further emphasizes that grease is probably not good to use on toy trains.
> 
> Bruce Baker



That blender is a collectible.

As T man is, aka Epoxy Man

Servoguy is now, aka 5W-20 Oil Man.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, I use Lubriplate Aero for my "grease" replacement. Never turns to glue and works great.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

How long have you used Lubriplate Aero? Sometimes it takes a while for the oil to evaporate. The last time I used Lubriplate I put it on the bearings of an engine I was rebuilding to provide lubrication prior to startup. In this case, it only needed to work for a few days. And where do you get Lubriplate Aero?

BB


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bruce,

The BIG question, of course ...

Did you make a daiquiri?!?! 

I've been following your tip and using synthetic 5W oil (5W-30, actually ... it's what I had on hand) on my Lionel motors. So far, so good, though my timeline of feedback is tiny.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

And TJ is the, TIN MAN.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> How long have you used Lubriplate Aero? Sometimes it takes a while for the oil to evaporate. The last time I used Lubriplate I put it on the bearings of an engine I was rebuilding to provide lubrication prior to startup. In this case, it only needed to work for a few days. And where do you get Lubriplate Aero?
> 
> BB


Well, I have a bunch of it from long ago, but here's a link: http://www.lubriplate.com/webstore/detail.aspx?ID=14


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John,
I would not use this stuff on my trains. Here is why: Description: LUBRIPLATE Aero is a neutral lithium base lubricant, manufactured with a light viscosity mineral oil that remains plastic down to -70°F, has an ASTM Dropping Point of over 350°F and is an NLGI No. 1 consistency. Lubriplate Aero is the recommended grease for your garage door openers.

Since we have no data on what the "light viscosity mineral oil" is, we have no idea what the vapor pressure is or how fast the oil will evaporate. Remember, we want something that doesn't evaporate in 50 years. I have 45+ years of good experience with motor oil and 53 years of bad experience with grease. People recommend LaBelle grease and oil for trains. OK, show me the test data. Just because the LHS is selling LaBelle stuff doesn't mean it is any good. LaBelle claims it doesn't damage plastic. Where is the test data?

The Lionel Lube that Lionel sold back when I got my first train is miserable stuff. I find a residue all over the wheels of many of the PW cars I have, and I am sure it is Lionel Lube. It is dried out and hard and difficult to remove from the wheels. It is on so many cars that I am sure it is Lionel Lube and not something else.

Anyway, just MHO.
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, another use for the Aero lubricant is for aircraft use, that's where I got mine. I also see a lot of the apparently Lionel Lube that has hardened. However, I have never seen Lubriplate Aero harden, and it's served me well for a variety of lubricating tasks for going on 30 years.

As far as "doesn't evaporate in 50 years", I'm not all that concerned about that, since I'll be 97 at that point.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you have 30 years of experience with it, that should be enough. It is this kind of data that is useful. Thanks
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It was used on military aircraft as far back as the 60's when I was in the Navy, that's when I first saw it. I managed to snag a few tubes of it and have been working my way through it ever since.

As you can see, it's not a cheap lubricant, so when I'm out of this, I may have to consider alternatives.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

One thing I like about the motor oil is it is cheap and readily available. 

BTW, I have a 2023 Alco which I have had for 35 years. I haven't run it much in those 35 years, and I realized that I hadn't lubed it in forever. So I took it apart, cleaned the commutator and brushes, and lubed everything including the commutator. It now runs so smooth and starts so easy. The voltage is down 2-3 volts. Unfortunately, this loco is one that has the shells distorted by heat so it looks a little funny to the trained eye (no pun intended). It is a good runner, though, and that is what I mostly care about. It keeps the 9 year old kid in me happy.
BB


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

BTW, except for the commutator, I didn't clean anything. Just oiled and let it go.
BB


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## burlington77 (Sep 28, 2009)

I've used 5w-30 synthetic very, very lightly on some of my stuff. Is this an okay thing to do? Or am I opening a can of worms by asking? Seems to be a lot of different opinions out there.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Synthetic should be somewhat better than regular motor oil. I have an engineer friend who is an expert on lubricants. He says that about 30% of regular motor oil is what makes it a multi viscosity oil, and 70% is what actually lubricates. He says that for a synthetic oil, 100% is for lubrication. 

BB


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

servoguy said:


> I've used 5w-30 synthetic very, very lightly on some of my stuff. Is this an okay thing to do? Or am I opening a can of worms by asking? Seems to be a lot of different opinions out there.
> 
> Synthetic should be somewhat better than regular motor oil. I have an engineer friend who is an expert on lubricants. He says that about 30% of regular motor oil is what makes it a multi viscosity oil, and 70% is what actually lubricates. He says that for a synthetic oil, 100% is for lubrication.
> 
> BB


This was my next question, since I have synthetic laying around (I use full synthetic in all my automobiles). I'd also think that motor oil MAY keep the areas a bit cleaner and resist "sludging" due to all the detergents that are added, although I would have no information to support this.

- Paul in AZ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

When it comes to lubricants, my girlfriend swears by....oh, wait a minute. Wrong forum.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I talked with a model railroader about a year ago who has retired from the petroleum industry. He said it is possible that the synthetic lubes might damage the paint. He recommended petroleum based oil (ordinary stuff). That is what I have used for 50+ years. The problem with many lubes is that the oil evaporated and leaves behind either a gummy residue or the clay that is used to make oil into grease. The old Lionel Lube was very bad in this respect. Motor oils have a low vapor pressure. That is why you can put them in the engine of your car and they don't evaporate at 220 deg F. There are a lot of guys who recommend other lubes, but my question is, "Where is the test data?" Without test data, the recommendation is hollow.


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

I'd settle for the anecdotal evidence you provided, along with the recommendation of a veteran of the petroleum industry. 

I would hardly think that there would be any "cross-purpose" testing done (motor oil in model railroads, for instance) and there would be little data to analyze.

I mean, what are we talking here for a QUART (which would last a FEW lifetimes) of conventional oil? $3.00? $4.00?

Heck, spring for the good stuff (Castrol or Valvoline) and you'd pay not much more than $4.00 a quart.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

When I started thinking about this problem, I realized that the primary requirement for any lube is that it have a low vapor pressure. Motor oil satisfies this requirement in spades. My experience with greases has always been that they dry out and/or the oil separates from the clay. As you said, the motor oil is very cheap with a lifetime supply being only a few dollars. Some people have recommended LaBelle lubricants but have not supplied any test data, so I am not going to use them. Besides, they are expensive. My test data comes from a 2025 that I oiled back in 1965 and put in a box. I took it out of the box about a year ago, and the oil had not dried out. I did re-lube it, but I am not sure I needed to.


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

Reckers said:


> When it comes to lubricants, my girlfriend swears by....oh, wait a minute. Wrong forum.


funny guy... funny guy...


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