# Basic Question about Industry Spurs



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

There's something I haven't heard or read about yet, but it's pretty obvious it's important.

Take for example, oh say, the very simple layout below, for talking purposes. If you want to deliver a car to a spur, you have to take into consideration which direction the train is going to have to go, because you can't approach the spur engine-first or you will be trapped in the spur - you can't leave the car there that way. You can only do that if you are first going in the correct direction on the mainline, then backing into the spur and uncoupling.

So, on the layout below, it would seem that all the spurs would have been laid out so as to be the type where the train, going in the correct direction, would be able to back in and drop off cars. But, if you look at the layout, it isn't designed that way. 

For example if you go counter-clockwise you can't drop off a car into some of the spurs. Same problem with others in the clockwise direction. I see a lot of these types of layouts. So is it me being dumb, or are many of these layouts not thought out very well?


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I think it's a matter of trying to get as much as you can onto a 4x8 sheet of plywood (using HO as my example). Trailing point spurs (where the car is behind the locomotive) are fine, but a few facing point spurs adds a lot of operational interest. That being said, how to get the loco to be 'behind' the car so the car can be pushed into the spur and dropped? on a 4x8, the answer is that you have to use the main as a runaround track. In the example shown, the passing siding on the left is also the runaround track. Not a perfect way of doing it, but ya does whats you gots to!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

With the layout you have posted not only do things happen like Flyboy stated but you also have a reverse loop for the engine to change directions with, which mean that you can back into all the spurs if that is how you are planning on doing it. 

Massey


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

flyboy2610 said:


> on a 4x8, the answer is that you have to use the main as a runaround track.


Yea OK, I guess you could do that. I didn't think of using the whole main line as a run-around.

The problem I'm having right now is studying some of these track plans out there (I'm trying to design mine now using Anyrail). For example when I look at the one below My brain turns to mush. I see lot's of track, which probably enables one to do most anything, but I can't seem to find any plans out there which explain, piece-by-piece what all the tracks were put there for.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Massey said:


> With the layout you have posted not only do things happen like Flyboy stated but you also have a reverse loop for the engine to change directions with, which mean that you can back into all the spurs if that is how you are planning on doing it.


Ok I didn't realize that, I meant to post one that didn't have a reverse loop. I'm still trying to read these things like a musician reads a sheet of music.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

When I draw out a track plan I try to lable each yard and industry if nothing else so I know what I am doing. I will design track plans from time to time with no ability to turn locos around but I usually try to also design them for forward and trailing switching. I also like to have a plan when I am planning the industry on how it is going to be switched. Here is a pic of one such place on my layout. 










Here on the right there will be 2 industries and they are not both at the ends of the track. One is right before the switch and the other is right off the switch. The reason the switch is there is so I can push the box car from "Mike's Bikes" out of the way to deliver or pick up the tank car from "Massey Heating and Oil". Then as I leave I grab the box car and pull it back where it goes. I planned it that way for a couple of reasons. First it allowed me to have 3 industries off one spur (the barrel factory, Mike's Bikes and Massey Heating and oil) the track I push the box car onto is in the alley behind some businesses which could also be used as a team track. Which also provides me with a little not so normal operations to throw at my users every now and then. 

Massey


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Massey can you post a complete schematic of your layout?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Massey said:


> With the layout you have posted not only do things happen like Flyboy stated but you also have a reverse loop for the engine to change directions with, which mean that you can back into all the spurs if that is how you are planning on doing it.
> 
> Massey










As I look at the plan it looks to me you can reverse and go the opposite direction one time, then your stuck in that direction as there is no way to reverse back to going the other way.
Except if you back the train up the red line of track in the middle? 
Shouldn't a reverse loop let you change directions without backing up?

Am I missing something?


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## kursplat (Dec 8, 2010)

big ed said:


> View attachment 13852
> 
> As I look at the plan it looks to me you can reverse and go the opposite direction one time, then your stuck in that direction as there is no way to reverse back to going the other way.
> Except if you back the train up the red line of track in the middle?
> ...


:laugh: i was just thinking the same thing. i don't know how many times i've ended up doing that in XTrkCAD and not noticed it until i start trying to run a train on it 



xrunner said:


> The problem I'm having right now is studying some of these track plans out there (I'm trying to design mine now using Anyrail). For example when I look at the one below My brain turns to mush. I see lot's of track, which probably enables one to do most anything, but I can't seem to find any plans out there which explain, piece-by-piece what all the tracks were put there for.


 yup, i'm starting to see why people hire someone else to do their room size layout


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The reverse loop that is still able to change back to the other direction but you have to back through it in order to change direction back the other way. I have made 2 layouts with this feature and it does work. 

Here is my layout before I modified the city area and added the lower staging. Those were both developed with out the assistance of a editor.










The area on the west also had some minor changes that did not appear on the final draft of the CAD drawing but this is the basics of my layout.

Massey


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