# Junkyard Dog -- Lionel 259E Loco



## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

Well, as mentioned in my Lionel 1681E thread, I've succumb to the "dark forces" and reluctantly "adopted" another mean, mangly-looking, street-wise junkyard dog: a prewar Lionel 259E loco. I really didn't want to do it, but the thing kept watching me, and eventually followed me home. What was I supposed to do? I couldn't just put him back out on the streets? I mean, a guy's gotta have a little compassion every now and then, right?!?

Well, now I'm stuck with him ... and I'm sitting here pondering the age-old proverbial question: *Is it possible to teach an old dog new tricks?*

I think the answer to that question will take some time, some patience, some under-the-hood t.l.c., and (I ask this most solemnly) -- your prayers.

So, if you happen to like scruffy old dogs, stick around here on this thread. In the coming weeks (months?) I hope to post some info and pics on how I've tried to clean him up, teach him a little discipline, and maybe see if he can "play fetch" around a track nicely. I'm not promising any Westminster best-in-show winner, mind you. But maybe he'll be just barely respectful enough that I can take him out in public without fear of embarrassment -- or litigation.

Now, without further ado, please allow me to introduce you to "SPIKE" ...

*He likes to think that this is his "good side", but I don't have the heart to tell him that he really doesn't have one. The tabs that hold his hind quarters in place have long ago broken off and been lost in some dark alley ... accordingly, his back end just sorta flops around in the breeze.*










*He's been in some nasty fights ... you can see his nose is all bent to the right, and his butt is kinda lopsided and squished. Poor dog ...*










*His front paws have been broken, too, and they're all bent to the right. He tends to walk around in circles a lot.*










*And it's clear that he hasn't had a bath in years and years. God knows what all that brown stuff under there might be ...*










*I took him to the vet. The Doctor just sat there and stared, with this puzzled, blank expression on his face. Do you think he was trying to tell me something? Does SPIKE need to be put down for a long, long "nap"?*










Please help us, and offer your prayers ...

TJ


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## Reckers

TJ....starting top front, the smokestack-looking thing....if you come up inside with a wooden dowel the same size as the inside of that dome, you can lever it back into it's correct position in relation to the boiler. For the sand and steam domes, the dents can be tapped out, too. Get a good, solid surface like an anvil or a workbench and put a piece of leather on it---the inner side of an old belt will do. Invert your dog on top of it so the domes are resting on the leather surface and secure it between 2x4 scraps, books...whatever you have. Then, take a carriage bolt whose head is just smaller than the interior of the domes and put the head inside the dome...tap gently with a hammer. You should be able to push those dents back out. The leather has enough give that you don't flatten the dome or stamp the edge of the bolt into it. Gentle tapping is the key. Good luck!


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

SPIKE is being disembodied, as we speak. A pile of mangy parts. I've got your dowel idea to undent the boiler on my list, though with the smokestack removed. Your "leather" idea is a great one ... a firm material that won't mar or scratch the dome surface. Good thinking on your part ... THANKS!

TJ


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## Reckers

I used to work with silver---same idea when you're trying to form any kind of metal without marring the surface. I would use a full-sized blacksmith's anvil, mounted on a section of a log and carted into my shop. The anvil has a flat surface called a table for working metal: I'd lay a scrap of leather across it that was cut to size. Worked perfectly.


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## imatt88

Tj,

Gp for it!!!:thumbsup: I will watch this thread with anticipation


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## Boston&Maine

tjcruiser said:


> TJ


What is that part in the top-right corner of this picture


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## tjcruiser

Stern weight ... sits on floor of cab, with screw passing through it, cab sheet metal, and motor frame flange.

You were right about this 259E ... it has another weight inside the steam chest.

Also, I was surprised to see how much bigger it is when compared to my 1681E ... larger diameter boiler, longer shell, etc. Similar, but bigger.

I'll post some pics of my disembodied mutt tomorrow. The main frame was bent pretty badly ... cowcatcher skewed to the right, tail end corkscrewed sideways. I tugged and pulled a bit in my vise, and got it looking a bit better.

I had to drill out the rivets that hold the valve rods to the frame ... those had to be removed in order to remove the main drive rods.

The corresponding front drive rod racks (??? don't know the real name) are attached to the steam chest with another rivet each. I don't think I'll remove those, though, for the strip / refinish job ... I'll try to tape them off, instead.

TJ


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## T-Man

Boston&Maine said:


> What is that part in the top-right corner of this picture



Somebody, doesn't have a weight.

Len, has a good idea with the carriage bolt and leather. I used a cheep,soft punch/chisel and rounded the end. After ignoring it for years in my toolbag, I finally found a good use for it.


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## Reckers

T-man, thanks. I have the delux version left over from my silver-working days. Some short, steel rods that have been ground and polished to a smooth ball at the end: sort of like a globe on a post. Good tools really spoil you!


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## Stillakid

*Junk Yard Dog?*

More like, "Beautiful, Seasoned, and Ready!":laugh::laugh::laugh:

TJ, send her to me


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> Somebody, doesn't have a weight.





tjcruiser said:


> Stern weight ... sits on floor of cab, with screw passing through it, cab sheet metal, and motor frame flange.


Well then, Lionel changed the design of the frame, maybe to cut costs, because mine definitely never came with a weight... The bolt that the motor attaches to is riveted directly to the frame...


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## Reckers

Boston&Maine said:


> Well then, *Lionel changed the design of the frame, maybe to cut costs, because mine definitely never came with a weight*... The bolt that the motor attaches to is riveted directly to the frame...


Perhaps....and, how can I put this delicately...the derrieres of the northeast ladies are of sufficient mass that the originals had no problem getting traction?:laugh:


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## tjcruiser

B&M,

Re: the stern weight ... that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing the pics of your loco.

On my end, it definitely looks like the design of the weight and how it fits into the cab could have been a Lionel engineer-team afterthought. My frame looks exactly like yours, except WITHOUT the riveted motor-mount screw. My Doyle book say the 259/259E was produced from 1932 through 1940, so some design/fabrication changes are expected.

I'll also add that the frame on this 259E is not nearly as stiff/rigid as that on my 1681E. The mid-length section of the 259E frame is necked-down considerably, to the point where there's very little overall torsional stiffness and rigidity to the whole thing. I've tried to straighten mine a bit, but it wouldn't take much to whack it out of alignment again.

I suspect this is why so many of the photos I've seen of other 259's tend to show a cab that's cocked nose-up / tail down at an aesthetically unatttractive angle. I think it all comes down to rear frame droop, in my opinion.

(And, Reckers ... it pains me to say so, but many of our fair ladies of the Northeast tend to share in that same problem ... Dohhh!)

TJ


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## tooter

What a neat project, tj! :thumbsup:

There's something really nice about watching old neglected pieces being restored to their former glory.


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## tjcruiser

" ... old neglected pieces being restored to their former glory."

Uhhh ... maybe. For now, the key word is PIECES. My little junkyard dog has been (temporarily ???) disembodied. Ol' SPIKE is praying that I remember how to put him back together again, and that he doesn't end up with his nose tacked on to his butt. Then again ... he might just like that ... he's a dog, after all ...

TJ


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## aionta

*cute! ??*

In this attached image Lionel-259E-03.jpg

it looks like spike is smiling!
Is he a long lost descendant of Thomas?

Looks like fun

Aaron


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## tjcruiser

Aaron,

Gosh darn it ... he IS smiling in that pic! I hadn't noticed that ... I think he's happy 'cause he finally found some poor schmuck (me!) to take him home!

TJ


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## tjcruiser

*259E Project ~ Dumb Lesson Learned #1 ...*

Gents,

I've jumped into projects like this to have some fun and learn a bit in the process. Which, inevitably, means making some mistakes along the way. In this case, the top of the first inning ...

*TJ's 259E Project "Dumb Lesson Learned #1"* ... I say number 1, 'cause this could be a VERY long list ...

So I used the old Easy Off oven cleaner strip-job trick on my 1681E project. Worked great, except I used the mild "no fumes" version of Easy Off there.

For this project, I thought I'd turn up the power dial a bit and use the Heavy Duty Easy Off. So I dumped all of my pieces in a clean throw-away-style aluminum foil lasagna pan, spray on the Easy Off, covered the top with some more aluminum foil, and let the brew sit for about 6 hours, while I got some real work (gotta pay the bills!) done in my office.

At the end of the day I go to check on the "oven". To my shock, the Easy Off had eaten right through the bottom of the lasagna pan. Let me clarify that ... there was NO bottom of the lasagna pan left. Gone. Vaporized. Hocus-pocus disappeared and all that! A full-on David Copperfield vanishing act. Fortunately, I had the dumb-luck foresight to initially place the pan on top of an old sheet of plywood in the garage, and that caught most of the spill. (I had nearly placed the pan on the top of our shiny new washing machine!)

Fortunately, after a mop-job cleanup, I'm happy to report that the Easy Off did do its intended job on stripping all of the paint off of SPIKE's loco parts. Down to bare metal, though there's definitely "spiderwebs" of rust veins on the surface. I'll have to hit them all with a stainless Dremel brush to polish them up a bit.

So ... Dumb Lesson Learned -- Do NOT use Easy Off in one of those throw-away lasagna pans ... and if you do, make sure the washing machine is far, far away!

TJ


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## T-Man

Tsk, Tsk. Double caption. I used a bag and a pan. Good information to know. Make sure the parts are cleaned off well or the paint will wither. You have to counter act a strong base now.


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## tjcruiser

*Getting Primed*

Loco shell & frame parts getting primed ... black Rustoleum sandable primer. This is the underside coat ... I'll let that dry, flip the parts, then prime the top.

My leftover 2" foam scraps (from my HO mountain build) work nicely as supports ... I poke coat-hanger wire into the foam, bend the wire to suit, and prop up the loco parts in the air for spraying.

TJ


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## tjcruiser

*Painted Parts ...*

The loco shell and frame parts are now stripped, primed, and newly painted. Purists will likely scream "Blasphemy!", but I opted to topcoat with a Rustoleum charcoal-grey metallic paint. The metallic sheen adds a depth to the finish that I find pleasing. And -- in reality -- the metallic paint was the only one available at Home Depot that was the right shade of grey ... not too light, and not pure black. So, metallic it is.

I ordered some replacement parts from Jeff Kane (Train Tender) today: valve gear rivets, Lionel circle emblems for the cab, headlight, and a pair of new domes. I will likely try to un-dent the original domes (Reck's method), but will have the repro ones as fallbacks.

*T-Man* ... Any tips on how to "peen over" a tiny rivet, as in the ones that attach the valve gears to the frame? These have the rivet heads on the inside of the frame, and the peen-over side on the outside of the valve gears. What tool would you use? Any tips on how to avoid scratching the paint in the process?

Thanks,

TJ


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## aionta

My wife uses homemade rivits made out of copper tubing to make jewlry.
These tube are probally a lit thicker that the rivits you are going to use.

She uses a tool that has something like a 45 angled tip to start the rivits rolling over
Then uses a slightly larger one or a tool wiht a ball tip to finish the rivit.

Hope that helps

Aaron


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## tjcruiser

Aaron,

It does, quite a bit. I was thinking -- naively -- that I might gently tap with my center punch which has a conical tip, maybe 60-degrees off axis. The tricky part here (for me) is size ... the rivet shank diameter is around 1/16". So I need to have a center indent in the middle of that, and then flare out the edges to create a peen, of sorts.

Your confirmation of an angled / conical tool helps a lot!

TJ


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## Reckers

TJ,
Depending on size, an ice pick, a center punch, or a plumb bob: if you put one of the three into a vise and tap the tubing down onto it to flare the end, it might be easier. Once you have a good flare started, rolling it over is tricky. You can put a same-diameter piece of wood dowel/toothpick/skewer inside that is the same initial length as the rivet; just slide it in and break it off---it should help prevent the rivet from folding on it's length. Put the flared end down on a smooth, polished surface and gently tap the other end. The wood will keep the cylinder intact and will crush as you tap, letting the flared end take all the pressure. Short of buying a riveting tool, that should work.


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Thanks for the tips above ... quite helpful. I like the toothpick idea. That said, I think (???) the Lionel rivets I've orders are solid, not tubular, so I don't run the risk of buckling their length.

I need two rivets on the loco, but I ordered 4 rivets so that I can experiement a bit before committing to the real thing. What scares me is that my "tapping and peening" has to be done essentially adjacent to my nice new shiny paint job.

Maybe I need to grasp that "new car" mentality ... the one where we're all paranoid about getting that first chip or ding on our brand new car ... you know it's bound to happen, but you just dread the thought ... and then when it does, you're actually a bit relieved that you don't have to be quite so paranoid about getting a chp any more.

Paranoid?  Me???? Uhhh ...

TJ


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## Stillakid

Like the color! It's a great pick!

TJ, I picked up 2 sets of tools at the local craft store. They were for riveting leather, and for putting shiny things on clothing(jeans). I've found uses for both sets and they've worked well. Each of the sets has one head that sets the rivet, and 2 other attachements that roll over the different sized rivets. Loaned them to a friend for his daughters project or I'd show some pics.


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## tjcruiser

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the thumbs-up on the color ... I was a bit ambivalent about the metallic, but the unassembled loco pieces look OK so far. I do like the charcoal hue.

Thanks, also, for the the craft store tool tip. We have a Michael's nearby, and I'll make a point to see what they have there ... leathering tools, jewelry tools, etc. Good thinking.

TJ


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## Big Ed

I thought you said that you use Krylon paint as you didn't like rustoleum?


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed,

You're absolutely right ... I DID say that. Good recollection on your part. However ...

1. This 259 loco shell had more rust than that on my 1681 project, so I was more concerned about future rust abatement.

2. I'm into these projects to learn, and perhaps correct my old misconceptions where needed. So far, I'm happy with this Rustoleum finish ... perhaps I took more care in applying it than on my prior (non train) projects ... extra careful to clean / preps the parts, warmed up the parts and the paint all nice and toasty before spraying, etc.

3. And, I couldn't find a dark grey / charcoal Krylon that enticed me otherwise.

So, all of the above .. but the verdict and jury are still out on the end results ...

TJ

PS --

I think one Rustoleum vs. Krylon test will be what happens to the paint when I have to bend the little tinplate assembly tabs back into position? Flexibility? Cracking?


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## T-Man

tjcruiser said:


> *T-Man* ... Any tips on how to "peen over" a tiny rivet, as in the ones that attach the valve gears to the frame? These have the rivet heads on the inside of the frame, and the peen-over side on the outside of the valve gears. What tool would you use? Any tips on how to avoid scratching the paint in the process?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> TJ


All I can suggest is to peen the center and force it to spread to the edge. If you have a straight chisel make an x.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man said:


> If you have a straight chisel make an x.


Ahhh ... make an "X" before I put the rivet in place, to weaken the edges a bit in prep for the peen ...

Good thinking there, T-Man ... Thanks!

TJ


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## T-Man

Err no, make the X on the rivet and spread it.


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## tjcruiser

Yeah ...we're on the same page, I think ... X on the RIVET, but do that before I insert it into the loco frame (to avoid paint damage), and then flair/peen out the now-weakened X after it's in its spot.

Yes? No?


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## T-Man

The rivet is soft. Anything done before may warp it, so it won't fit. The tool only has to be the same diameter as the rivet.

On my 1668 shell the rivet has a center punch mark. That should be enough.

Cheat, and use super glue?


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## tjcruiser

T-Man said:


> ... rivet has a center punch mark.


Ohhh! That could help a lot! I figured (wrongly) that the end of a new rivet was flush-cut, with no center indent. The center indent would give me a "starting point" to begin the flaring process with a centerpunch type tool. Hopefully.

As I said, I ordered a couple of extra rivets so that I can experiment beforehand.

Thanks, everyone, for all your thoughts!

TJ


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## aionta

Here is what my wife uses for the second part, a very small dapping block and ball
like

http://www.riogrande.com/MemberArea/SearchPage.aspx?page=GRID&free_text|1275152287654=dapping block

kinda pricey for one riveting job though! 

Good luck!


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## tjcruiser

Aaron,

Thanks for the link. Those are really nice "dapping sets and blocks" ... similar to what Reckers was describing for use in tapping my boiler domes back into true round.

I suspect I'm over-thinking my rivet job ahead. They're super tiny ... about 1/16" in diameter, and I suspect if I have (or drill) a center indent, and then carefully tap the middle with pointy center punch, I'll be OK. It just scares me, though, that I gotta do this right on top of my shiny newly painted frame. Live and learn, I guess!

Thanks,

TJ


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## Reckers

TJ, take out some insurance. Use a piece of thin cloth or paper for a shield. Punch a hole in the cloth/paper, slip the rivet through, and use it to hold the rivet, an added bonus. As you peen, the pad will protect your shiny somewhat. When the rivet is just about snug, tear away your pad and you're home free.


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## aionta

You could also try a test rivit on some matterial that is similar in thickness to the loco part. Just to get a feel for the process 

Just remember to have fun.

Aaron


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## tjcruiser

*TMZ Celebrity Photo*

A TMZ Paparazzi phototographer has just snapped this photo of an as-yet unidentified celebrity sneaking out the back door of a noted plastic surgeon's office.

Who is that? Why does he look somewhat familiar?

More to come ...

TJ


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## Stillakid

Very Nice!


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## imatt88

TJ,

Keep the pics coming:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

Well, I started this thread with a story of my Junkyard Dog SPIKE. Mangy, dirty, broken, and beaten. But somehow, still lovable. Man's best friend, and all that. Who could resist?

Well, who says that only cats should enjoy nine lives? How about our canine friends? Don't they deserve a second chance, too? I think so. So, please allow me to introduce you to the "new" SPIKE ... he's been newly pampered, preened, polished, and pedicured. And I must say, he's not lookin' too shabby. No more back-alley dumpster dives for him.

As I did with my 1681E project, I'll offer a few comments on "TJ's stupid mistakes and lessons learned":

1. I HATE rivets ... I mean I REALLY HATE rivets. The ones that connect the valve gear to the main frame. Impossibly small, and in the end, I couldn't track down the right size part / rivet diameter. And as you read earlier, I was paranoid about dinging / scratching my newly painted frame in the process. So, I made an "executive decision" and ditched the rivet idea. Gone. Outta here. See ya! Instead, I found some perfect 3mm stainless round head / allen head tiny screws at my local Ace hardware store, 1/4" long, with stainless-nylon lock nuts. I ever-so-slightly increased the bore in the hole through the frame, and then these screws worked like a charm. No fuss. No mess. No death-knell screams from TJ. And, I think their rounded/allen head looks attractive exposed on the frame.

2. I spent a bit of time cleaning / lubing the motor, but it really wasn't in bad shape. Functioned just fine. However, as I had it all apart to clean the armature, I had a brain-fade when I put the drive gear and armature back together. Clueless me forget to think about the alignment of the cranks on the drive wheels, which have to be connected (of course) with the drive rod on each side. My crank holes were all willey-nilley not aligned up with each other. Dohh! No big deal, though ... take it apart, line up the crank holes, and reassemble. Moral here: always remember to think about drive rod position and line up your crank holes on the drive wheels.

3. For the record, the copper domes, smokestack, the Lionel "L" insignia, and the headlamp on the boiler front are all new / reproduction. The new copper parts were not all that shiny when they arrived. I spent a bit of time polishing them with my dremel felt buffer and some Brasso. Also, for anyone tackling a 259 down the road, please note: The original "L" insignia attach via 3 little tabs. For some reason, the new repro ones are not made that way ... no tabs ... they attach via self-sticky on the back.

4. All other componets are original. 

5. Reassembly sequence on this 259E is really, really important. I strongly suggest positioning all of the shell pieces together to each other first, BEFORE you bend any tabs back into position. Also, it's critical that you install the sandpipes (?) that come down from the front dome into the frame BEFORE you place that section of the boiler shell into the frame itself with proper tab alignment. If you don't do this first, you'll be boxed out. And, make sure that that front dome is installed (with tabs bent) PRIOR to installing the sandpipes. The handrails can be installed after the shell pieces are all tabbed together.

6. TJ's Paint Review. Some of you may recall that I used Krylon paint and primer on my 1681E project, and Rustoleum paint and primer here. They are definitely different beasts. While I'm hoping that the Rustoleum will help to inhibit rust in the long term, I think I much prefer working with the Krylon. The Krylon paint has a more rubbery finish that has a bit of forgiveness when bending tabs, bumping an edge during reassembly, etc. The Rustoleum appears to be a much, much harder paint. Good perhaps, but it's also quite brittle, and can more easily chip along an edge if you bump it the wrong way and/or try to bend a tab back into position. Anyway ... my 2-cents.

7. Notwithstanding the comment above, I do like the look of the charcoal metallic Rustoleum paint. It's certainly NOT purist traditional, but I think it has a luster that adds nice "depth" to the finish.

And so, without further ado ... I present to you ... SPIKE ...

TJ


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## Reckers

Superb job, TJ! He could pass for brand-new!


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## Stillakid

That's an "EXCELLENT" job, TJ! Way to go


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## Big Ed

BBBBBeeeeutifull!:thumbsup:

All done for the kids to run now?

I like the metallic.


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## T-Man

Super Duper TJ. ( Recker, already used Superb) !:thumbsup:
Did you name the type of paint?


charcoal metallic Rustoleum paint ....... Got IT


It suits very well.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, guys ... I really appreciate the very nice comments above! 

TJ


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## tjcruiser

*SPIKE finds a friend ...*

Couple of quick follow-on comments ...

1. I wanted to clarify the specific paint types. I used:

~ Rustoleum Automobile Primer (wet sandable), Dark Gray, #2089
~ Rustoleum Black Night Metallic, #7250 (this is what I had called "charcoal")
~ Gold pinstriping on steam chest via Pilot Gold Marker, extra fine point, SC-G-EF

2. Interesting size comparison between the 1681E and the 259E in the photo below. Big difference between these two.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Couple of quick follow-on comments ...
> 
> 1. I wanted to clarify the specific paint types. I used:
> 
> ~ Rustoleum Automobile Primer (wet sandable), Dark Gray, #2089
> ~ Rustoleum Black Night Metallic, #7250 (this is what I had called "charcoal")
> ~ Gold pinstriping on steam chest via Pilot Gold Marker, extra fine point, SC-G-EF
> 
> 2. Interesting size comparison between the 1681E and the 259E in the photo below. Big difference between these two.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


The 1681 is the Krylon paint right?
I thought you were going to clarify that?

Though I like the metallic, I sort of like the 1681 better. But maybe that's because the bottom is red.

I think they bought came out great.:thumbsup:


Next?


Since you once said that you like Krylon paint better then Rustoleum which one do you like better now?


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed,

Yup, Krylon on the little 1681. Via comment up above:

"6. TJ's Paint Review. Some of you may recall that I used Krylon paint and primer on my 1681E project, and Rustoleum paint and primer here. They are definitely different beasts. While I'm hoping that the Rustoleum will help to inhibit rust in the long term, I think I much prefer working with the Krylon. The Krylon paint has a more rubbery finish that has a bit of forgiveness when bending tabs, bumping an edge during reassembly, etc. The Rustoleum appears to be a much, much harder paint. Good perhaps, but it's also quite brittle, and can more easily chip along an edge if you bump it the wrong way and/or try to bend a tab back into position. Anyway ... my 2-cents."

(That's -5 points there Big Ed for not reading your homework assignment!  :laugh

Seriously, thanks for the interest in my little projects ... I've had fun, and enjoy the hands-on learning.

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Big Ed,
> 
> Yup, Krylon on the little 1681. Via comment up above:
> 
> "6. TJ's Paint Review. Some of you may recall that I used Krylon paint and primer on my 1681E project, and Rustoleum paint and primer here. They are definitely different beasts. While I'm hoping that the Rustoleum will help to inhibit rust in the long term, I think I much prefer working with the Krylon. The Krylon paint has a more rubbery finish that has a bit of forgiveness when bending tabs, bumping an edge during reassembly, etc. The Rustoleum appears to be a much, much harder paint. Good perhaps, but it's also quite brittle, and can more easily chip along an edge if you bump it the wrong way and/or try to bend a tab back into position. Anyway ... my 2-cents."
> 
> (That's -5 points there Big Ed for not reading your homework assignment!  :laugh
> 
> Seriously, thanks for the interest in my little projects ... I've had fun, and enjoy the hands-on learning.
> 
> TJ



Well... beat me with a wet noodle!:laugh:

How did I miss that?
What did you do go back and edit it?


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## imatt88

TJ,

Amazing restos:thumbsup:. Keep up the excellent work.

What's next on the workbench?


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## tjcruiser

Ian,

Thanks ... much appreciated.

On the workbench: Another junker (flooded) 1681, but with a whole set this time ... tender, 3 cars, and a transformer station building. Paint's jumping off of everything. Look's like I'll be passing out some dollar bills down at the strip club again!

TJ


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## Boston&Maine

Okay, all of the 259E action around here has moved me back to considering restoring mine... I have two questions... What did you use to reattach the weight to the steamchest, and what did you use to reattach the two small rods that were originally rivited to the frame?


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## Reckers

I'm perplexed....what is this association between tin trains and flood zones?


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## Rocky Mountian

TJ,
Thats a work of art.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Boston&Maine said:


> Okay, all of the 259E action around here has moved me back to considering restoring mine... I have two questions... What did you use to reattach the weight to the steamchest, and what did you use to reattach the two small rods that were originally rivited to the frame?


B&M,

Forward weight to steam chest with a #4 screw (1/2" or 5/8" length, I think). Screw head in front, then flat washer, steamchest, weight, flat washer, lock washer, and nut in rear. Stainless steel, throughout. 

The "valve gear" to frame attachment was a head scratcher. Read my comments in earlier posts (in this thread) re: rivet frustration. In the end, I nixed the rivet idea, and used a metric 3mm diameter screw with a "round head with inset allen/hex socket" (I'm sure there's a better name), I think about 6mm in length. Screw head on the outside, then frame, then flat washer, then valve gear bar, then nut with nylon lock insert. Again, all stainless throughout. The 3mm screw fits perfectly through the existing hole in the valve gear bar. However, I used a diamond-burr "drill" (not really, more like a small cylinder imbedded with abrasive) to enlarge the original hole through the frame such that the 3mm screw would fit. Worked just fine. In the end, this was much easier than trying go the re-rivet route, stronger overall, and I like the look of the exposed round/allen head fastener.

Be careful about the length of the 3mm screw described above. If you go too long, its exposed inside shank will interfere with the bottom run of the "sandpipes" that come down from the forward dome. You want just enough length to get a locknut on the screw (inside the frame), but no longer.

I did NOT remove the "guide tracks" (???) from the aft face of the steam chest during the repaint, but rather taped them off.

Good luck,

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

I think old junker tin trains make excellent fishing weights!

TJ


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## Reckers

TJ,

Agreed. There was a reason Baum associated "tin" with "needs a brain"!


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## Boston&Maine

tjcruiser said:


> B&M,
> 
> Forward weight to steam chest with a #4 screw (1/2" or 5/8" length, I think). Screw head in front, then flat washer, steamchest, weight, flat washer, lock washer, and nut in rear. Stainless steel, throughout.
> 
> The "valve gear" to frame attachment was a head scratcher. Read my comments in earlier posts (in this thread) re: rivet frustration. In the end, I nixed the rivet idea, and used a metric 3mm diameter screw with a "round head with inset allen/hex socket" (I'm sure there's a better name), I think about 6mm in length. Screw head on the outside, then frame, then flat washer, then valve gear bar, then nut with nylon lock insert. Again, all stainless throughout. The 3mm screw fits perfectly through the existing hole in the valve gear bar. However, I used a diamond-burr "drill" (not really, more like a small cylinder imbedded with abrasive) to enlarge the original hole through the frame such that the 3mm screw would fit. Worked just fine. In the end, this was much easier than trying go the re-rivet route, stronger overall, and I like the look of the exposed round/allen head fastener.
> 
> Be careful about the length of the 3mm screw described above. If you go too long, its exposed inside shank will interfere with the bottom run of the "sandpipes" that come down from the forward dome. You want just enough length to get a locknut on the screw (inside the frame), but no longer.
> 
> I did NOT remove the "guide tracks" (???) from the aft face of the steam chest during the repaint, but rather taped them off.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> TJ


Thanks for the info... Did you order these nuts and bolts online, or...?


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## T-Man

A good hardware store would have it. Even in stainless steel. Maybe not that type but something that would fit.


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## tjcruiser

Local Ace hardware store with a pretty well-stocked "pick yourself" nuts and bolt department.

#4 screws come in both 40-tpi and 36-tpi ... I used the 40-tpi via Ace. 36-tpi (which is an old standard, not common today) is available through Jeff Kent at Train Tender.

Metric 3mm is a.k.a. "M3".


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## tjcruiser

OK, Gents ... back to this project / thread ...

I picked up a cheap prewar #1689T tender to go with my now-restored 259E loco. The tender will need a strip, prime, repaint job, but there's only a few pieces, and I think this should go pretty smoothly. Jeff Kane at the Train Tender has sold me some repro "Lionel Lines" nickel nameplates to go on the sides. (The repro ones are stick-on, whereas the original ones were tabbed in.)

So, a new playmate-to-be for Spike the 259E wonder-dog. Project details to come ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## Reckers

TJ---why are there vents in the roof of that tender?


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## tjcruiser

Reckers said:


> TJ---why are there vents in the roof of that tender?


For guys like me, who have become hopelessly addicted to their trains ... if there comes a time when all hope is lost, when those days of leisure seem distant and obscure, and when the demons of trains-gone-by haunt your every waking hour ...

You pop two cyanide pills inside the shell, along with a few drops of water, hook her up to your favorite loco, throttle up, and give the team one last glorious run 'round the track.

Uhhh ... err ... something like that. Or ...

Lionel used this same shell for their 1689W tenders which had a whistle inside.

Send help ...

TJ


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## Big Ed

Find a whistle and put it in.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

When I was lookin' to ebay-buy a cheap tender for my 259E, I looked at whistle tenders. Not so cheap! Most were $35 and up. I bought this non-whistle one for $6.50, I think.

Works for me!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> When I was lookin' to ebay-buy a cheap tender for my 259E, I looked at whistle tenders. Not so cheap! Most were $35 and up. I bought this non-whistle one for $6.50, I think.
> 
> Works for me!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ



I will say it again, Find a whistle and put it in. It has all the holes you need for a whistle set up.


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## tjcruiser

The 259E loco is more of a show train than a runner. Tender, too. So a whistle is not too important for me on this. However ...

I do have this same type of tender for my 1668 and 221 streamliners. The tender for the 221 DOES have a whistle in it, and I run that one with my boys. They get a hoot out of tooting the whistle.

Separetly ...

I started disassembling the 1689T tender today. I'm a bit bummed to see that the journal boxes are not copper, like they were on the cars to my #1054 freight set. These have a black coating (paint?) and are nickel-plate on brass underneath. I tried removing the black with an Easy Off bath, but the black didn't come off. Next, I ran a Dremel brush over a small test spot on one of the journal boxes, which revealed the nickel-plate and brass base metal.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to buff off the black to reveal shiny nickel, without buffing too deep into the underlying brass. It may be that I'll have to go down to brass all around.

I was really hoping for copper, as the mated 259E loco has copper domes and smokestack. That would have looked nice together.

Oh well ... se la vie ...

TJ


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## Big Ed

:thumbsup:


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## Boston&Maine

tjcruiser said:


> I do have this same type of tender for my 1668 and 221 streamliners. The tender for the 221 DOES have a whistle in it, and I run that one with my boys. They get a hoot out of tooting the whistle.


Sounds like you should mix things up a little 

This 259T tender is $20 shipped, but it is missing the handrail and drawbar 

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-259T-4-W...511510?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf20de596


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## tjcruiser

B&M,

That's a GREAT "buy it now" price for that 259T tender ... $10 plus $10 shipping, so $20 to your door. Any takers here on the Forum? A really GREAT DEAL !!! I'd suspect that missing parts are relatively easily replaced with reproduction new bits.

As I read through the Doyle prewar catalog book, it seems that there were several variants of the 259E during the 1930's. The early ones (with open spoked wheels, for example) were teamed with the 259T style tender. But the later ones (like mine 259E) were teamed with the simpler (and likely cheaper) 1689T tender. Hence, my rationale for choosing a 1689T tender for this project.

Uhhh ... at least that's my understanding of what Lionel was doing way back then. If anyone has info to correct me, please let me know.

Despite my choice, I actually prefer the look of the 259T tender over the 1689T. 259T is much classier, in my opinion, and not simply a "box with wheels" like the 1689T.

Interestingly, it seems there are a few different versions of the 1689T tender. Early ones (like mine) had inset nickel "Lionel Lines" nameplates. Later one had no plates, but rather "Lionel Lines" stamped in white lettering on the sides.

You know ... now that you've got me staring at the ebay 259T tender ... I've added it to my "watch list" and am going to think this one over a bit. Hmmmm ....

Many thanks,

TJ


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## T-Man

I have been looking for 259T for months. My T, radar was on and it's SOLD!


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

Good for you!!! I really did think that was a great deal, and that the tender was in pretty decent shape ... no major shell dings or bends. It's going to a great home, and ...

You've removed the temptation on my end! And that's a GOOD thing!

Enjoy it. Post some pics of any rehab you do on your end. Check with Jeff Kane at the Train Tender if you need missing parts ... I've found him to be a great / honest source.

Congratulations !!!

TJ

PS --

Though I've never actually held a 259T tender, judging from the photos, it seems there's a lot of similarities to this, and the little 1661T (???) tenders that came with my 1681 and 1681E locos. The 259T is more jazzed up with metal trim, but it looks like the shells are very close. Pressed rivets on the 259T, whereas painted rivets on the 1661T. But the same top plate "ramp" and rounded "wings".

If you opt to disassemble, strip, and repaint, make sure you do a few test runs on the reassembly sequence ... it's a bit tricky getting the top plate (with ramp) in place under the "side arches", with all of the tabs lined up. Doable ... but it takes a few practice runs, which you might want to do before any final topcoat paint.

Enjoy!


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## tjcruiser

Oh, and T-Man ... one other thing ...

I think my wife wants to throw you a kiss for nabbing "Another Train?!?!?!!!!!" away from me. You're now her new hero!

:laugh:

TJ


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## T-Man

The ebay brethren were going for 40 to 50. So I decided on the plunge. I am sure Jeff and I will be buddies if I ever make my list. It will match my 259. for a while I was thinking of revamping a Scout and add an open scoop area. Maybe shorten it too. It was just a whim. Natrurally I will update as it goes.

Tell her I saved ten bucks. I wanted the rusty lot under the Vish e bay thread!!


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## tjcruiser

Hey ... back to the 259T tender. I just saw the lower one also listed on ebay. T-Man, you're buying the upper one. Hmmm...

ARE THERE BOTH 4-WHEEL AND 8-WHEEL VERSIONS OF A 259T TENDER ????? 

TJ


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## T-Man

The second one is a 262T, Offered in 1934. In 1932,33 the 259T was in. The spokes wheels stopped in 1934-36 the year they went with a 262T.


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> The second one is a 262T, Offered in 1934. In 1932,33 the 259T was in. The spokes wheels stopped in 1934-36 the year they went with a 262T.


Actually, I am fairly certain that the four axle tender TJ pictured is also a 259T... If you look closely, the body style is exactly the same as the two axle 259T I pictured... The 262T looks like this, and it has a diecast shell:


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## tjcruiser

B&M,

Re: 262T -- Wow! I really like that die-cast tender, with it's "bumpy" coal load, and brass (or copper) water fill cap. Very classy looking.

Re: 259T -- It's confusing that Lionel would have 4-wheel and 8-wheel tenders with the same name. In looking at the earlier photos, it's not just the trucks that are different, but the frame itself ... the 4-wheel has frame-mounted wheels, with no true trucks.

Thank much for the clarifications !!!

TJ


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## T-Man

The 30's were depression recovey times. Who cared about tenders? My reference states a few tender changes with the 259 258 and 257 model engines in that ten year period. I am glad B&M is fairly certain. I will search until I read the stamp on the bottom. It's my first four wheel tender.

Not to rub it in, tell the Misses it's in the mail.


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## tjcruiser

*Intimate Tender Moments ...*

My little 1689T is bashfully sharing some intimate tender moments ...

(As a 259E loco looks on in excitement and anticipation! Hubba, hubba, hubba!) Actually, two 259E's are drooling with anticipation ... mine, and T-Man's 259E who has found a new mate, too.

Lucky guys ... lucky guys ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Killed my first spammer here as a moderator a few moments ago. Guy had stolen text from one of my prior posts and posted it again as if it was his own, along with some "watch movies now" link.

I've got the power, and I'm likin' it!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Killed my first spammer here as a moderator a few moments ago. Guy had stolen text from one of my prior posts and posted it again as if it was his own, along with some "watch movies now" link.
> 
> I've got the power, and I'm likin' it!
> 
> TJ



I think I saw that guy last week and told you Mods to empty the trash.

But my post went unanswered.


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

It was a first-time poster, so new guy, I think ... or perhaps same guy under a new pseudonym name. (<=== Did I spell that right?!?) Either way, he's now toast.

Keep your eyes open, and let us mods know if you see more spammers.

TJ


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## tjcruiser

The 1689T tender has gotten a modesty skirt ... some Rustoleum auto primer, in prep for top coat paint...

TJ


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## tjcruiser

*SPIKE's little tag-along mutt friend ...*

Well, I'm happy to report that SPIKE's little 1689T tender friend has come out of the Pampered Poodle shop all preened, powdered, and pretty. Lucky *****!  (<=== Too funny ... I had typed a word that rhymes with "witch", and the forum bleeped me out !!! :laugh: )

She endured the full strip and refinish job, as referenced above. Rustoleum auto primer and Rustoleum Black Night Metallic topcoat. Polished brass journal bearings with airplane dope clearcoat. (These were originally nickel plated, but the nickel was badly flaking off ... so I took 'em down to the underlying brass.) "Lionel Lines" nameplates are repros from Jeff Kane, along with a new latch coupler in the back.

I used #6-32 x 3/8" long stainless screws (with round inset allen-heads) to re-attach the trucks to the frame. Sequence from the top: screw, flat washer, frame, fiber washer, truck, (draw bar in front), nut with nylon lock insert. I had to attach the trucks to the frame (per above) PRIOR to installing the frame to the top shell, obviously.

Woodland Scenics dry-rub number decals on the bottom.

And so ... I present SPIKE's little tag-along mutt friend, henceforth named "Poodles" ...

TJ


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## tjcruiser

*SPIKE and Poodles go strutting through the neighborhood ...*

And, to cap off this thread, SPIKE and Poodles go strutting through the neighborhood ... looking for a fire hydrant, I think!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Felginator

The train looks amazing! Really nice job and I like how the the paint color looks with the brass.


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## Stillakid

*Nice!*

Bravo TJ, Very Nicely Done:appl::appl::appl:


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## tjcruiser

Fel & Jim,

Thanks very much for the nice comments above ... much appreciated! Two old clunkers saved from the rust heap.

Which gets me thinking ...

Several months back, I wrote a post bemoaning how people could sell individual steam locos and indiviudual tenders on eBay, but not as match pairs. I think I cried "blasphemy" or something like that, saying how wrong it was for people to split up a team, and sell off orphaned children like that.

Then ...

Some time after that, I ebay-found this 259E loco ... solo. I bought it, and fixed it up.

And ...

Some time later after that, I ebay-found this 1689T tender ... solo. Bought it, and fixed that one up, too.

And now I have a team ... essentially, an "original" team. And I feel quite good about doing that. I feel quite good about reuniting these orphaned children.

So maybe ... just maybe ... my earlier thinking was wrong. Maybe it's OK for people to split up a loco/tender team. Because then, people like me ... who have a soft heart for stuff like this ... can hunt around and find that special little friend / team mate to pair up with whatever project they have at hand.

Maybe there's peace and harmony in the world, after all ...

TJ


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## Big Ed

Sometimes that's all that's left of their old set. The rest got junked.

I see that poor tanker back their shedding tears , because all of his buddies got painted up like new and he didn't.


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## imatt88

Excellent job, as usual..


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## T-Man

Be sure to give the Elves a day off. Tell them they did a great job!


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## tjcruiser

Thanks guys! Much appreciated!

TJ


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## SkyArcher

Tj, looks like you're a superhero in your own way. That was an excellent project that was well done.:appl:


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## servoguy

TJ,
I think you are referring to the "crosshead." The crosshead is the guide for the piston rod and main rod. "The corresponding front drive rod racks (??? don't know the real name)" 
BB


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## beavis

Excellent work TJ!! I showed my cousin ( who is an engineer at Lionel here in Chesterfield ) this thread and he was floored!!!


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## tjcruiser

Bruce -- "Crosshead" ... that it! Thanks, I really appreciate the lingo tip. Somewhere in my files I have a nice diagram of real loco drive rod components ... I really should brush up on that.

Beavis -- Wow ... I'm honored with that comment from your cousin. Much appreciated. Ohh ... tell him to save all of the Lionel factory "minor defect rejects" and send them my way ... I'll be happy to fiddle with factory-fresh stuff next time!

Cheers,

TJ


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## beavis

Unfortunately it's all in china now, but I do get some cool pieces still, just few and far between. Most recently he gave me the HO Veranda w/tender they made in 2001 or 03, with some track and their DCC controller.


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## rrswede

Included in a purchase earlier this year was a 1681 shell in very nice condition. Members of this forum identified the shell for me since I thought it might be an AF shell. 

Teledoc has been extremely helpful in identifying the various components required to restore the locomotive as well as identifying threads in the Tin Plate Forum that have proven to be most valuable. Finding parts for the 1681 led me to purchase a 259E in as poor shape as TJ's Junkyard Dog.

While still searching for a 1681 Boiler Front, I have disassembled the 259E and started to identify parts required to get it back on the track. The components I have are identical to those in TJ's post 21, but the locomotive is not complete. Among other things, it is missing the boiler front, the front and rear trucks and the rear step plate that holds the coupler pin has been broken off the frame.

Using the Olsen 259E diagram, I have identified part numbers and have also scoured various photographs to aid in identifying acceptable replacement parts and to fabricate a rear step plate. Based on photographs, it appears that folks have used various front trucks and back trucks on 259E shells. I am not a purist so direct replacements are not essential. Can you please tell me which ones to look for? I'm pretty sure front trucks from the 258 or 1681 will work on the 259E.

Can you tell me the distance between the cab floor and the rear step plate?

Although not a match, will a boiler front from a 258 fit the 259E?

Thank you, swede


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## sjm9911

Wow, if you need both trucks and a boiler front you might be better off finding a junker. They come up from time to time for like 20$ shipped on e bay. Unfortunately, I looked and found nothing. Jeff at the train tender had some stuff for mine. Maybe try him. What cab floor measurement do you need?


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## rrswede

Thanks for the response. I couldn't pass up the purchase as is for as little as it cost.

The rear step plate that should be part if the frame assembly was broken off and missing. I plan to fabricate a new one and want to know the distance from the main cab floor down to the step plate that holds the tender mounting pin.

swede


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## teledoc

*Parts ????*

Swede, I guess once again I have to come to the rescue...LOL!!
The boiler front should be the same with the exception of the Headlight. The actual boilers,size wise are the same, so a 258 boiler front should fit. The front and rear trucks are a different story and are NOT interchangeable. The 259E needs the 1661-23 Pilot truck, and the 259-27 rear truck, both available from Olsen's Toy Train Parts at $7.50 each. I think Olsen also has the complete boiler front with the trim part 259E-73.

The rear step plate you mentioned is confusing. I don't have a 259E, but I do have two 258 locos that have a weight that is inserted inside the cab (For traction??) Are you referring to the piece that would have the pin to connect to the tender drawbar??? If that is missing totally, you will have to fashion one yourself, and use JB Weld to attach it. If that is the case, I have an idea of how to fashion the plate and a Pin.


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## sjm9911

Good info doc! Some had weights and some didn't. I think they added them afterwards, in the later issues for weight.















Hope this helps, just happened to have one out!


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## sjm9911

Dam sideways.....save it and turn it!


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## teledoc

If the plate that has the drawbar PIN is what is missing on his 259E, he is going to have to make one out of 'sheet metal' to the correct size, and the bends to add it to his loco. As far as the actual PIN, he can use a "Common Nail" of the right diameter, cut off what excess is not needed, and drill a hole into the 'New Plate', and just JB Weld it in place.

The measurement from my 258's is 1 1/2" wide from side to side, and each bend would be 1/2", to fit on bottom of frame.

Sometimes you have to "Think Outside the Box" for a solution. The weight is just something that you may or may not see on all of that style loco (258 or 259)


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## sjm9911

You right doc, I do know one thing, if you repaint it don't go chrome!


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## rrswede

Thank you, SJM and Teledoc,

Yes, I am missing the piece that has the pin in it to connect to the drawbar of the tender and I intend to fashion a piece just as you described, Teledoc. Thanks for the dimensions. 

Looking at photos of a 258 and 259, I can see how someone could break the two little connection tabs by bending the piece back and forth.

If my 259 originally had a rear weight, and I believe it probably did, it also is missing. That's not a concern right now. 

I am still wondering about what trucks will or won't work on the 259. I am attaching a photo of, what I believe to be, a 258 rear truck. What is different between it and the proper one for a 259?

Thanks again, swede


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## teledoc

Re-read my post just above sjm9911's photos and the part numbers are listed. The 258 & 259 parts aren't interchangeable. It's basically because they both use different motors, and the attachment points are totally different.


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## rrswede

Thanks, teledoc. Is the rear truck for the 259 shaped like the one in my photo, but with different dimensions?

swede


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## teledoc

*259E rear truck assembly*

Here is what it looks like from Olsen's Parts with the part# 259-27, at their price of $7.50. The price is average of $7.50 - $8.00, and other dealers may have it in stock. It looks like the right part, so you should be good to go.

http://www.olsenstoy.com//proddetail.htm?sku=259-27


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## rrswede

Thank you for adding the photo. I am not familiar with the viewing options on the Olsen site and did not realize I could get a visual of the truck. I do see the difference between the 258 and 259 truck. 

swede


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## teledoc

*Viewing an item from Olsen's*

Swede, When you know exactly what part number you need, you do a search for the "Parts", which is on left side of page at the top. When it lists everything with a particular number such as entering just '259' in the search box, it will list all parts associated with that number. Once you find what you are looking for, IF it is listed, click on that "Blue Highlighted" number, and if Olsen's has a drawing or photo of the item, you can see what it looks like.

If you are looking for the Boiler Front, and have to resort to getting it separate pieces, Jeff Kane (Toy Train Tender) has all the parts for the boiler front. Here is a list of part numbers/Description:
259E-73R= Boiler Front (minus all trim pieces)
259E-73LC= Nickle Lens caps (two required)
259-LP= Red & Green lens for inside of Lens Caps.

I forgot one other part which the Cast Headlight part #1661-25. Inserting the Cast Headlight isn't easy, if you opt to order all the parts. If you opt to go that route I can explain what I had to do.

If you decide on ordering the rear trucks, he also lists two versions of plain wheel, or spoked wheel, with part # 259-78 (plain); # 259-78S *( spoked). That is up to you.


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## rrswede

Thanks for the additional information. I am not in any rush to complete any of the 4 projects I've got myself into so, for now, I'll keep my eye on Ebay and see what turns up. The way things have been going, I'll probably end up with 6 or more projects if I buy parts off Ebay. My wife will love me.

swede


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## teledoc

Psssssst!!!! Don't tell the wife, just find ways to sneak stuff past her.......LOL


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## sjm9911

My last one, in the picture was bought to repaint. After I wiped the dust off it , it was in too good of shape to repaint. So these e bay buys can lead to more projects or buying even more stuff. I'm still looking for one to chrome paint. Eventually......


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## rrswede

The 1681, 258 and 259, I now have, all had thin chrome over copper and brass, most of which had worn off. I removed all the chrome buffed the base material and doped the parts like TJ did. I would like to have restored the chrome on the 259 but am not familiar with products that provide a result better than buffing the base metal. Are you familiar with any products that show promise?

Thanks, swede


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## teledoc

*Sand domes*

Swede, the Copper domes are not really available but the the Nickle ones are. The only thing I know of to restore a chrome finish on a small scale, would be the "Caswell Plating Kit". What you think is chrome is actually Nickle. The problem is all the trim parts should be the sameasallCopperor all Nickle, to
Ok correct. Some parts are available in Nickle only, others copper only, but not all parts to complete the trim correctly. That is one of my predicaments, as to why I haven't finished mine yet.


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## teledoc

*Burnishing NOT Buffing*

Swede, I had to search an older thread of TJ's and remember why his parts look so shiny. There is an other forum member, (not sure if he is still active here) that has a business of Burnishing 0 & 027 gauge track, so it looks like almost new. He apparently used to work in the Orthopedic/Prosthetic field that used "Burnishing Wheels" to burnish, NOT POLISH WITH COMPOUND, to get the finish needed. He offered a use burnishing wheel, and TJ happened to be the winner of the "lottery" for a burnishing wheel.

The BUFFING WHEELS, require a buffing or polishing compound to be used, versus the BURNISHING WHEEL is use as a stand alone without compounds. TJ was able to adapt the wheel, to a bench grinder, and he uses that to BURNISH his parts to the super shine you see. The said Burnishing wheel in question was made by TYCRO, NOT TYCO, and the price, if you could find one, is well over $100-150 ranGE.

This to give you a Heads Up on TJ's restorations.


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## sjm9911

I have the kit, not used as of yet. But, the copper bare has a simplicity of it own. With the right colours it can be very cool.


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## sjm9911

No tj, it still dosent have the motor attached!


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## rrswede

Thanks for the info regarding TJ's shiny pieces. I have a neighbor friend that uses various stick formed compounds and buffing wheels to make aluminum items shine like they were chromed. Probably a process similar to what was used for TJ's restoration.

swede


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## rrswede

SJM, I agree that the bare pieces, straighted, cleaned and polished, as seen in your photo, provide a very pleasing appearance. I hope my rework comes somewhat close to duplicating yours.

Thanks, swede


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