# Installing Kadee Couplers using Mario's Shapeway products Pt 1 MTH SD45



## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

I have been upgrading my Engine fleet with Kadees for the last couple of months. 

Mario ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gandyman ) sells Lionel Kadee mounts on Shapeways for GP7/9, GP30, and GP40s. After I installed them on a pair of Lionel GP9s. The good idea fairy set in and I decided to do an install on a MTH GP35. 

The purpose of this thread and others, is to show how adapt his products for other uses. 

The first one is the install of Kadees on the MTH Premier SD45


Part List: #743 Type E Couplers Short Centerset with Short Plastic Gearbox 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/G...gp9-pilot-kadee-coupler-mou?optionId=57308322












I had to modify the Lionel Kadee mounts to fit the opening in the MTH Pilots. In this case I used the GP9 mounts. Since the mounts are to wide and were designed to fit in the Lionel GP7/9 

I needed to reduce the width. So I pulled out my dremel and started sanding down the sides.





























I then installed the draft gear box and the sanded down the back until the mount was even with the back of the draft box












This just give you an idea just how much from the sides that needed to be removed.












Once modified they painted back to match the pilots. Once paint was dry, they were installed into the pilots using the same mounting holes that were already been predrilled by MTH.

At that point I did a test fit and once again sanded the back of the Kadee mount to insure a good fit. I also sanded the coupler mount on the truck flatten some of the curve. 

Note: If your going to fix the pilots you will need to remove the coupler mount to allow the trucks to swing freely.










Here are pictures of completed project.

































































GN SD45#400 with GN GP35 #3040. You also will note That I didn't fix the pilots. I know sacrilegious for 3RS but this allows me to run on O81 curves on the main and 072 for the yard without any issues. 











MTH GN GP35#3040 (Shapeways https://www.shapeways.com/product/G...gp9-pilot-kadee-coupler-mou?optionId=57308322 ) with Lionel GN GP35 #2519 for comparison using https://www.shapeways.com/product/4...0-pilot-kadee-coupler-mount?optionId=57308314


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

Great job! You can fix the pilots and still run on 072 and 080 curves, but you have to use the standard shank 740 coupler, and open up the sides of the draft gear box just a tad. The 743 shank really limits side to side travel because of that wide angled shaft. Then of course the handrails need to be re-bent into full length versions. Nothing but time man, nothing but time 

The Kadees look 100 times better :appl:


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

I thought about and still in a position to fix the pilots. The issue with the SD24 and SD45 is with the pilots themselves. There is very limited space for a Kd install were I could of used the 740s. ( I had already done a test fit ). I have a ATSF SD45 that I had fixed the pilots. Definitely need to use the long shanks, but had an issue with overhang and the pilot bumping into things off the curves. For the GPs and my FTs the curves wouldn't be an issue with fixed pilots. The FTs are already fixed and the SD9s I have on order from Sunset will also be fixed pilots. I plan to redress SD45 issue after I finish the rest of the MTH GP30s and the GP7/9s. After that, fixing the pilots will be a simple install. Tomorrow I post the GN MTH/Lionel GP35 install. Nice thing about Mario's mounts that there already shimed at the proper height. I wonder if Mario is even aware of this post.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

will the 740s work if you cut down the draft gear box like this?









I grind the box all the way down to the back of the shank. I even grind off the little nub on the back of the shank and give the box some nice round corners just for looks.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

I hear ya though, sometimes I have to grind off the coupler mounting tab, AND the draft gear box.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Doug

Here is the pic from the SD24 Pilots. As you can see there is very little room to work with. The only option is to remove the coupler mount and even then its going to be tight. The GP30 mounts are the planned option as they fit best. So far the only engines that I used the 743s were the SD45s. Everything else I have used the 740/745s with the backs trimmed. 

last night I swapped out the GP9 mounts with the GP30s in my RS11 and they worked out much better to include the looks department. The Weaver pilots I have plenty of room to work with. The GP30 mounts seam to work the best and its a quick and easy install and so far do not require any modifications to the draft boxes.

I need to order more GP30 mounts!!!!

SD24 pilots below.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

Holy crap, they notched out their own truck block just to get the 3R coupler in there. You might even have to grind down the back of the Kadee shank a bit to make the coupler and box as short as absolutely possible ... yikes


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

That's why I bought the 743s for the SD9/24/45s. Just isn't any room for 740/745s. even after I remove the coupler mount. I just posted the RS11 by the way.


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## Mario_S (Sep 22, 2015)

Super nice. I luv 45s!


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

I hope you don't mind the abuseing your stuff. You still have my number. It just might be easier to adjust the GP9 mount for the SD24.


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## Mario_S (Sep 22, 2015)

I would never! Mind that is...

I encourage you to trim, cut, grind, shave and sand every square mm to get the results that look and work the best!

That's what I do...

Measure early and measure often!


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

That's good. The SD24 pilot going to be a pain in ***. Been doing the prep work this morning. This one is going to be major surgery to your mount. or should I say a facelift!!! The whole purpose of the threads is to show the versatility of your products. Not everybody is talented as Doug.


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## Mario_S (Sep 22, 2015)

I can't wait to see it!


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Laidoffsick said:


> Holy crap, they notched out their own truck block just to get the 3R coupler in there. You might even have to grind down the back of the Kadee shank a bit to make the coupler and box as short as absolutely possible ... yikes


After taking a break to finished the U30B. I relooked at the SD24 pilots. After two days of messing with it. It seams the only option is the 743s using the GP9 mounts. Even after shimming both sides to fill the gap. I still had a sizable gap at the bottom, unlike the SD45. Have a solution now. But that will wind up covering the screws on the bottom of the mount. So Tonight I start the process. In the end it will look better, but a real pain for maintenance.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

That is where mounting the whole pilot comes in handy. You make the spacer, mount the coupler to the pilot, and when you cover the screws it's no big deal. For any type of work that requires removing the shell, you just unscrew the whole pilot, coupler and all  I've had to do that a few times. Some of my F units are like that, the coupler permanently attaches to the pilot, and the screws go through the pilot and the spacer into the frame. You can glue the spacer to the pilot or leave it loose. I usually leave it loose. To get the shell off, I take the 2 screws out of the pilot to remove the spacer and pilot before pulling the shell off. Just use a little white glue or tacky glue on the threads as the vibration will cause the pilot screws to come loose.


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## Mario_S (Sep 22, 2015)

That looks like it's going to be a bear to get that block in there. You may have to put a small pice of flat bar stock across the gap to have something to tap into.


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## Mario_S (Sep 22, 2015)

Or, what about mounting Lionel GP pilots?


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Laidoffsick said:


> That is where mounting the whole pilot comes in handy. You make the spacer, mount the coupler to the pilot, and when you cover the screws it's no big deal. For any type of work that requires removing the shell, you just unscrew the whole pilot, coupler and all  I've had to do that a few times. Some of my F units are like that, the coupler permanently attaches to the pilot, and the screws go through the pilot and the spacer into the frame. You can glue the spacer to the pilot or leave it loose. I usually leave it loose. To get the shell off, I take the 2 screws out of the pilot to remove the spacer and pilot before pulling the shell off. Just use a little white glue or tacky glue on the threads as the vibration will cause the pilot screws to come loose.


What I meant was if for some reason I needed to replace the coupler. It would just be a pain in the ****. I agree. Id rather use the 740s but, I will have to remove a lot from the back and part of the shank. I knew this one wasn't going to be easy. I am working on the CB&Q nopowered SD24 unit first so I can work out the kinks. I don't even think MTH made a scale wheel SD24 with fixed pilots.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Laidoffsick said:


> That is where mounting the whole pilot comes in handy. You make the spacer, mount the coupler to the pilot, and when you cover the screws it's no big deal. For any type of work that requires removing the shell, you just unscrew the whole pilot, coupler and all  I've had to do that a few times. Some of my F units are like that, the coupler permanently attaches to the pilot, and the screws go through the pilot and the spacer into the frame. You can glue the spacer to the pilot or leave it loose. I usually leave it loose. To get the shell off, I take the 2 screws out of the pilot to remove the spacer and pilot before pulling the shell off. Just use a little white glue or tacky glue on the threads as the vibration will cause the pilot screws to come loose.





Mario_S said:


> Or, what about mounting Lionel GP pilots?


That's what I am using. Still had to remove the sides and rebuild the face as they didn't lay flat against the face of the pilot. Like I told Doug. I knew this one would not be easy.


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## Mario_S (Sep 22, 2015)

Are we having fun yet?


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Always, everybody is in bed so I can work in peace. Life of a soccer dad. I had already cut a bar stock to size. I think it's going to work out now. Still will be covering the screws but I can live with it. I am going to have to do the same thing with the Lionel U30C( GP40 mounts) On another note. My middle daughter's report card came out today. She graduates from middle school on the high honor role. Straight A average. One of her final exams she got a B. When I pointed it out, she says daddy Bs are good. I said no B means bad.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

It only becomes not fun when you start throwing things


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Ok first SD24 done, What a pain, also redid the pilot on the U30B( filled in the gap) More to follow. I want to finish the second SD24 before I publish the How to.



















U30B with missing lower teeth










U30B with bridge work


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## Mario_S (Sep 22, 2015)

:appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl:

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IT!

Great job.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

Did you do the Zebras yet?


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

*Installing Kadee Couplers using Mario's Shapeway products: update 24 Jun SD24*

PT 4 is the MTH Premier SD24. CB&Q #515 nonpowered and #506 Powered

Mario AKA CentralFan1976 ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gandyman ) sells Lionel Kadee mounts on Shapeways for GP7/9, GP30, and GP40s. After I installed them on a pair of Lionel GP9s. The good idea fairy set in and I decided to do an install on a MTH GP35.

The purpose of this thread and others, is to show how adapt his products for other uses.

A couple of things to note. *If you plan on fixing the pilots you will need to mount a spacer between the frame and the pilot. You will also have to remove the coupler mounts from the trucks.*




















http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196049&stc=1&d=1466817264

Part List: #743 Type E Couplers Short Centerset with Short Plastic Gearbox
https://www.shapeways.com/product/GF...ionId=57308322

Plastruct: 3.2mm x6.4 mm and 1.5 mm x 4.0 mm Styrene Strip 

The first SD 24 was a MTH Non powered unit

I had to modify the Lionel Kadee mounts to fit the opening in the MTH Pilots. In this case I used the GP9 mounts. Since the mounts actually fit the opening in the pilot but don't fit flush. Some modifications were needed.












I needed to reduce the width. So I pulled out my dremel and started sanding down the sides and back just as in the SD45. Once done I needed to make a new pilot face building up the sides and then the bottom of the Kadee mount. I cut 4 pieces of 1.5 mm x 4.0 mm Styrene Strip about 1in long and glued them on the sides. perpendicular to the holes. 































I then did another fit test to insure it face was even with the rest of the pilot. 



















Once satisfied, They were primed and installed into the pilot using the predrilled kadee holes in the pilot. Once that was done, I did two things. Used filler on the front of the pilot to fill in any gaps and glued a piece of 3.2mm x6.4 mm Styrene Strip cut to one inch and sanded down until it was it was snug on the bottom of the pilot.











I then set it at an angle covering up the bottom gap










Once I sanded down the front of the pilot it was reassembled and off to paint. While the paint was drying. I went a head and removed the couplar mounts on the truck assemblies with my dremel .











Once the paint was dry, I remounted the pilots onto the trucks. 





























CB&Q # 515 as modified










http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195993&stc=1&d=1466817264











For CB&Q #506 I used the same process but with some changes.

With the coupler mount. I decided to sand down and round off the front of the coupler mount.




















Once done, Installed the mount and coupler into the pilot. Used filler and then sanded. Once completed, pilot was reassembled and painted. 










While the paint was drying. This time I only sanded down the coupler mounts on the powered truck assemblies. Basically flattening out the rounded edge to insure there was enough room to clear the Kadee mount. Once again reinstalled the pilots and reassembled the engine. 




















CB&Q #506 as modified.



















Notice the difference between #515 and #506s coupler mounts



















MTH SD24 CB&Q #506 and #515 out of the shop and back on home turf.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Laidoffsick said:


> Did you do the Zebras yet?


Not yet. Priority is my CBQ and GN units. Also I still cant figure which screws hold the shells on GP9/7s


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

*Installing Kadee Couplers using Mario's Shapeway products Update 27 jun. U30C*

PT 5 is the Lionel U30C CB&Q/C&S #891 with TMCC and Odyssey one

Mario AKA CentralFan1976 ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gandyman ) sells Lionel Kadee mounts on Shapeways for GP7/9, GP30, and GP40s. After I installed them on a pair of Lionel GP9s. The good idea fairy set in and I decided to do an install on a MTH GP35.

The purpose of this thread , is to show how adapt his products for other then their intended uses.

A couple of things to note. If you plan on fixing the pilots you will need to mount a spacer between the frame and the pilot. You will also have to remove the coupler mounts from the trucks.











Part List: #743 Type E Couplers Short Centerset with Short Plastic Gearbox

Lionel O scale EMD SD40-2 pilot Kadee coupler mount

Plastruct: 1.5 mm x 4.0 mm Styrene Strip and 040"/1.0mm styrene sheet

Coupler assembly the same as above with the other engines.










Building the pilot was different from the others. In this case I used the SD40-2 mount. Since the mount was smaller then the opening, I had to do a few things first. I cut two strips from the 040"/1.0mm styrene sheet styrene sheet and glued them to the side of the Kadee mount then trimmed and sanded to fit. This filled the side gap and also helped center it. I drilled the holes using the mount as my template.

Unlike the other engines where the mount was already at the correct height . This time I needed to do additional shimming. I cut three one inch strips of styrene using 1.5 mm x 4.0 mm Styrene Strip sanding the ends to fit width of the gap. I placed the first two strips on the pilot on each side of the holes and placed the Kadee mount assembly on the two strips centered on the holes. Screwed them in place. I took the third strip and then used it to fill the gap between the mount and the bottom of the pilot.




















Then filled in the gaps with filler and sanded, primed and then painted.




















The finished product



















With the SD24 back on home turf.










































http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197145&stc=1&d=1467038316












http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197161&stc=1&d=1467038316


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

*Update 7 July Pt 6 Weaver U25B/U30B*

PT 6 is the CB&Q Weaver U25B and CB&Q U30B project 

Mario AKA CentralFan1976 ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/gandyman ) sells Lionel Kadee mounts on Shapeways for GP7/9, GP30, and GP40s. After I installed them on a pair of Lionel GP9s. The good idea fairy set in and I decided to do an install on a MTH GP35.

The purpose of this thread , is to show how adapt his products for other then their intended uses.

A couple of things to note. If you plan on fixing the pilots you will need to mount a spacer between the frame and the pilot. You will also have to remove the coupler mounts from the trucks.






















This will apply to Weaver U25B pilots. Since the U30B used a Weaver U25B frame/trucks/motors/and pilots, same method applies. Parts List

Part List: Kadee#740 Type E Couplers Medium Centerset with Metal Gearbox

GP30 https://www.shapeways.com/product/43...ionId=57308314

Plastruct: 1.5 mm x 4.0 mm Styrene Strip and 040"/1.0mm styrene sheet

Same process as before for assembling the copular and mount.

Glued to strips of the 040"/1.0mm styrene sheet to the sides then sanded





















Then did a test fit and then dilled out the holes in the pilot using the mount as a guide











I then reinstalled the Kadee coupler, rounded out the edges and applied filler, sanding again until it looked like this 



















After I screwed the mount in place, I used on inch piece of 1.5 mm x 4.0 mm Styrene Strip, sanding the ends until it fit and glued in place filling the bottom gap. Again I used filler to fill in the exposed gaps/seams in the front of the pilot. Then sanded until smooth, then primed and painted



















While the paint was drying. I took the opportunity and sanded down the coupler mount on the truck assembly. Note: If you use the 743s you will not need to do this. 










Once paint was dry, I reattached the pilots to the trucks. You will note that I had sanded down the back of the draft gear box to insure fit and also rounded out the edges. By using 743s this will be unnecessary. 



















http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200761&stc=1&d=1467920857


Weaver U25b Pilot using the 743s




















The completed conversion.

U30B Before










After with without rounded kadee mount and lower gap showing.




















U25B without the cheesy rounded kadee mount and filled in pilot. Learn as you go right?



















U30B Final configuration


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