# 5x9 layout help needed.



## little fat buddy

Hey guys i need some help on designing a ho scale layout on my 5x9 table top. 
the reall only things i reall know i want is some switchin opertunities. a continus run and twice around to get more track in a small space no more than 8 turnout's kind of a tight budget and also a questin are the woodland scenis risers worth the money i was thinking of using those thanks lfb.


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## gc53dfgc

so if I understand correctly you want some one on here to design a layout for you? I would be ok with doing it for you but am not sure what you want?


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## little fat buddy

yes if possible id like that and i reallyu didn't know how ot word it let me know exactley what you need to know and ill tell ya thanks LFB.


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## gc53dfgc

do you prefer it be computer done or paper drawn or no preference?


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## little fat buddy

computer draw please. thank you.


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## cabledawg

I'm heading back out to the field for a few days and I'll have time to kill, so I can whip one up in AnyRail. But I wont be able to transfer it to the internet (I cant hook my laptop to the internet where I work) for a few days so if you dont mind waiting I'll be more than happy to help you out.


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## little fat buddy

that would be great man thank you and i don't mind waiting a few days thank you for the help LFB.


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## little fat buddy

any one else willing to help me out on this thanks. LFB.


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## cabledawg

I've got about four done up, two with 22"R curves and two with 18"R. I also have one oddball where I was playing with different switch yard setups. I'll be home tomorrow sometime, I should be able to post up later in the evening.

I used Atlas Code 100 track, but if you have something different in mind, let me know. Most of the stuff will change out, but some of the switches differ from company to company.


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## little fat buddy

the atlas track is fine with me i was though going ot use code 83 and id like 24 inch radius if possible thanks and i really appreciate the help man LFB.


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## cabledawg

I'll change the 18"R to 24"R, but keep in mind there may be a few areas I cant change due to space constraints. I'll leave the 22"R plans (which I think were my better ones anyways) and see what you think. Check back later tonight, I should have them up.

As for Code 83, it looks like Atlas 100 and 83 has pretty much the same options for track pieces, but if you want a list of parts, I'll have to change them out so you dont have a hodgepodge.


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## little fat buddy

well id like the list of part's id need to build the track layout please thanks LFB.


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## cabledawg

Here are the four plans I have so far. Basically two plans, one with elevated track to make the twice around, and one with a crossover. Each has a 22"R and a 24"R setup, but as you can see in LFB3 and LFB4, the inside loops were too tight for 24"R curves. I also have another plan with different yards and sidings, but it was done for 18"R so I'm still working it for the larger curves.










This one is 22"R curves with the blue part being the elevated portion. There is 3.5" of height at 3 deg of slope.










Still 22"R curves but a flat layout with a crossover.










This one s 24"R curves but the one side of the inside loop is 22"R because the 24 wouldnt fit. Again the blue section is elevated.










And this one has the entire inside loop with 22"R.


Oh and I still have to convert everything to COde 83 so you have the right part numbers and quantities. I should be done sometime tomorrow.


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## cabledawg

Didnt take me as long as I thought to fix the other one.










Still 22"R on the inside loop, but a few more options for switching to various industries.


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## little fat buddy

dude those are awesome thanks i like the theird one from the tip and the last one both of thsoe are awesome thanks for drawing these up man.


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## gc53dfgc

well you have me beat by far what did you use anyrail?


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## little fat buddy

yeah i don't know whath he used but he did great on these.


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## NIMT

Cabledawg,
Awesome job on the design,:thumbsup: Can I critique just a little, it's a mono directional layout, If you flip one of the yards/spur sections it becomes bi directional. and as such becomes allot more fun to run. If you add a run crossing the center you can also reverse the direction of the train?


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## cabledawg

Yeah, AnyRail. I'm getting pretty fast at doing smaller layouts and I dont mind helping others out with the design element.

LFB, as soon as I have the parts lists done, I'll PM them to you. You said the third and last were your favorites? I'll work those first then to get them to you as quick as possible.


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## cabledawg

NIMT.COM said:


> Cabledawg,
> Awesome job on the design,:thumbsup: Can I critique just a little, it's a mono directional layout, If you flip one of the yards/spur sections it becomes bi directional. and as such becomes allot more fun to run. If you add a run crossing the center you can also reverse the direction of the train?


I can tweak them easily to run bi-directional. A few of my test layouts have wyes in them just for this reason. But I usually stick with monodirectional on smaller layouts for the ease of wiring and control. Loopbacks and such require auto-reversers and while they are easy to install its one more peice of equipment to buy. But swapping a switch around so a "backward" facing loco or switcher has another direction to run is easypeasy and doesnt require anything beyond basic wiring.

I might start a member gallery just for my layouts I have so far. Most of the ones I have were for members on here anyways, but I'd be happy to share them with everyone.

And NIMT, I love to be critiqued. I cant get better if noone tells me what to change.:thumbsup: Some things I do for a reason, but sometimes I just dont know a different way.............


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## NIMT

Perfectly understood and agree with your concept of easy.:thumbsup:


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## cabledawg

Crossover in the center to change directions. There would be a autoreverser somewhere in the middle, but otherwise its operation as usual.


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## little fat buddy

yeah that is nice but i like the other one with he over under type cause it allows me to use a bridge and i want a bridge in the layout somewhere. so the theird one from the top on the other page is the one id like a list of part's for thanks lfb.


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## cabledawg

I'll have you a list sometime tomorrow


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## tjcruiser

Cabledawg,

I just have to say that it's very generous and kind of you to be helping others here on the forum with AnyRail layout design work.

Well done,

TJ


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## cabledawg

I enjoy it and since I bought the full version, I figured I'd put it to good use


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## little fat buddy

yeah i really apreciate the help with it so i can get going on my layout here at home with the track plan thanks LFB.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think it's time to turn cabledawg loose on my new layout.


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## little fat buddy

yeah hes good at desinging plans for them i am gonna use the theird one from the top on page too of this thred as my layout.


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## nsr_civic

hay dawg i mite have to have you help with mine too! awesome work man!!!


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## cabledawg

I'm pretty familiar with HO and G but anything you guys need help with, let me know. Just start a new thread with want you want done, and I'll see what I can do to help


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## audioquest

*HO Track Layout*



cabledawg said:


> I'll change the 18"R to 24"R, but keep in mind there may be a few areas I cant change due to space constraints. I'll leave the 22"R plans (which I think were my better ones anyways) and see what you think. Check back later tonight, I should have them up.
> 
> As for Code 83, it looks like Atlas 100 and 83 has pretty much the same options for track pieces, but if you want a list of parts, I'll have to change them out so you dont have a hodgepodge.



Would this layout work on a 4x8 22" outer and 18" inner?

or would it be better to stay with a 5x9, can't find plywood that size.


Also on your 22" layout, would you please provide what and how many tracks would be needed. 

Thanks in advance.

Randy


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## Massey

audioquest said:


> Would this layout work on a 4x8 22" outer and 18" inner?
> 
> or would it be better to stay with a 5x9, can't find plywood that size.
> 
> 
> Also on your 22" layout, would you please provide what and how many tracks would be needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Randy


Ply does not come in 5x9 in most if not all cases. It is not a dimension that fits well with building a home. That being said you can get a 5x9 out of 2 sheets and have some left over for other projects. I did a 4x8 and a 5x9 and if I ever have to build a table top layout again I will take the 5x9 anyday. 
With 5x9 you get alot of extra room for scenery, tracks and what ever else you want to build. Here check this out, this is the 5x9 I built a few years ago. It is a continious running layout with point to point operations and it has a reverse loop to change the direction of the train.


















I would have moved the crossover closer to the end if I were to do this again, Leaving just enough room to get an engine in or out rather than half the train.

And here is the track plan









I hope this gives you a few good ideas. I also have a 4x8 with a reverse loop if you want to see.

Massey


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## audioquest

Thanks, I'm trying to avoid a reverse loop. 

Randy


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## Gansett

Ask at your local lumber yard for 5x9 ply availability, that's the size needed for a regulation ping pong table.


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## audioquest

I have been calling around, no one sells the 5x9 plywood. I will continue to search.

I was thinking about buying 2 5x5 , not sure how that would work out.


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## raleets

audioquest,
I built a 4X8 earlier this year with two loops......a 22" on the outside, and an 18" on the inside. There is no crossover. The loops are seperate from each other and are controlled via two seperate transformers. The outer loop runs right along the edge of the plywood on the long sides.
I also have a figure-8 in the middle, also controlled by a seperate transformer.
You can see this layout by doing a search for "it's finally picture time". The pics were posted in April 24, 2011. You'll find them on page 5.
Good luck and have fun,
Bob


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## audioquest

I like the layout cabledawg designed for someone, 5x9. I'm just not sure if 22" radius was intended for both the inner and outer track, and what pieces are required.


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## CasperFLSTC

Massey said:


> Here check this out, this is the 5x9 I built a few years ago. It is a continious running layout with point to point operations and it has a reverse loop to change the direction of the train.
> 
> Massey


Education time for the new guy.

It's probalby just me, but when I follow this track with my finger I do not see a "reverse loop to change direction." So lets define what I think this means. To me a "reverse loop" is somewhere I can have the nose of my train going one directoin down a specific piece of track and return over that same spot going in the opposite direction with the nose of my train. In my mind that is defined as a single piece of track leading to a loop of track doubling back onto itself.

What am I missing?


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## sstlaure

Anywhere the track doubles back on itself is a reverse loop. In the plan above the inner loop at the top of the pic is a reverse loop. You enter into the loop on the inner track at the bottom of the pic, go around the loop, then exit the loop via the same track you entered.

This is a problem with 2-track electrical systems in that the pos/neg rails reverse themselves and cause a short when opposite polarities come into contact.

If you assume the RH rail is + and the LH rail is - as you enter the loop, trace the + rail around and you will see that the + rail contacts the - rail where the loop ends. You isolate this loop section and create a common rail current so that while your engine is inside the reverse loop, you can reverse the polarity on the mainline without affecting the direction of the train in the loop. Once it goes back out onto the mainline, the polarities now line up correctly.


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## raleets

Scott,
Spoken like the true engineer that you are! :thumbsup: 
Bob


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## sstlaure

raleets said:


> Scott,
> Spoken like the true engineer that you are! :thumbsup:
> Bob


You mean I just confused the heck out of things, right?


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## CasperFLSTC

sstlaure said:


> Anywhere the track doubles back on itself is a reverse loop. In the plan above the inner loop at the top of the pic is a reverse loop. You enter into the loop on the inner track at the bottom of the pic, go around the loop, then exit the loop via the same track you entered.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I should have been clearer. I see that loop - but from using my finger to trace the path I get the impression it is only useable once?
> 
> If I leave the left hand bottom I can enter the loop at the top going to the right I end up at the bottom of the loop and enter the second loop to exit moving to the top again.
> 
> I come around the curve and am now heading down toward whee I came from (reversed direction). Now if I merge onto the siding and go I am on the outer edge of the reverse loop but can only go
> down the same way I was going before and follow that path. I see no way to reverse again.
> 
> If I start from teh fight hand side I see no way to get into the reverse loop at all.
> 
> Thus I think I'm missing something somewhere in relation to the reverse loop utility
> 
> BTW I'm not implying hte layout is faulty and I hope it doesn't come off that way. I'm simply trying to learn how to incorporate something into my own concepts that could provide additional train movement and options.


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## sstlaure

You're correct in that it only allows a reversing move in one direction (clockwise) - once you are going counter-clockwise around the table you're stuck going in that direction. If you wanted total freedom to reverse either direction you'd need 2 reverse loops.

My old layout was a loop to loop arrangement that could do just that. If you're running DC, you get into a ton of switch movement to keep the polarity correct when switching directions.

The reverse loop is at the lower left, and the wye is down the middle of the table allowing the trains to go through the yard and then go back up the hill regardless which direction they came into the yard.


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## CasperFLSTC

sstlaure said:


> You're correct in that it only allows a reversing move in one direction (clockwise) - once you are going counter-clockwise around the table you're stuck going in that direction. If you wanted total freedom to reverse either direction you'd need 2 reverse loops.


Whew. Ok. Maybe I'm not missing that something after all LOL

Thanks for the input (and patience).


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## sstlaure

I think you'll find this is one of the most patient web forums out there....


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## audioquest

*Crossover*



cabledawg said:


> Didnt take me as long as I thought to fix the other one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still 22"R on the inside loop, but a few more options for switching to various industries.




Is the crossover in this layout 12.5 degrees?


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## Massey

You were not missing anything Casper you once you go through the loop clockwise your train now travels counterclockwise around the layout. In order to reverse back to clockwise you simply have to go through the loop in reverse. It is an imperfect situation but when you are only talking about life on 45 Sq feet you have to make a compromise where you can. The layout was actually alot of fun to operate and I would consider building it again. My only change would be where I located the engine escape on the business/ interchange at the south east corner. I would still use one but I would make it an inch or 2 longer than the longest engine I plan on using, not long enough for an engine and a few cars.

Massey


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## audioquest

I'm trying to figure in LFB2bpic.jpg layout, what the degree of the crossover is
Anyone have any ideas?


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## Massey

Sorry I cant help you with the crossover but I am sure Cabledawg will answer soon... I think it was his design...

Massey


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## cabledawg

I show it as a 19 degree crossing.

Edit: It is a 12.5 degree. I pulled the wrong file.


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## audioquest

5x9 Table using Atlas Code 83, would it be okay to have the outer track 24" and inner track 22" radius?
Or would it be better to have the layout radius 22" for both the outer and inner track.
I want to avoid any problems if a derailment occurs, having my loco or rolling hit the floor

24" radius would leave 6 inches on each side of the 5ft width, not sure if that's enough.


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## flyboy2610

audioquest said:


> 5x9 Table using Atlas Code 83, would it be okay to have the outer track 24" and inner track 22" radius?
> Or would it be better to have the layout radius 22" for both the outer and inner track.
> I want to avoid any problems if a derailment occurs, having my loco or rolling hit the floor
> 
> 24" radius would leave 6 inches on each side of the 5ft width, not sure if that's enough.


Having 24" outer and 22" inner would be fine. You may want to consider adding a 2 or 3" 'railing' around the layout to contain any spills.


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## audioquest

cabledawg

Atlas Code 83 
when you have time, I know your busy, LFB2bpic.jpg is the outer 24" and inner 22" radius. I really like the layout, but without the reverse loop, Please provide a parts list when you have a chance so I can start purchasing track, and a spec of the layout without the reverse loop.I have an Atlas 12.5 crossing, so hopefully that can be used

Thanks in advance.


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## audioquest

Cabledawg, 
do you have any free time to help me out with the Atlas Code 83 layout?


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## fundio

You guys are great. I've been trying to decide what to do for my son and this gave me some great pointers. I was wondering if you had anything for a 5x9 code 100 dcc and something that 2 trains can go at once. He is pretty young and is not fast enough to switch LoCos to stop a collision. He is only 5 and he understands how to switch them just takes him a little while. Fun to watch him.we are both new at this and I want him to enjoy it and our time we spend I hope he will remember forever. He also said he wants a tunnel. So something with some grades maybe?Thanks.


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## joed2323

I would buy flextrack. It will probably be cheaper in the long run, versus trying to get each sectional track peice to line up. Alot less joints too. Just figure out flex comes in 3 foot sections and just do the math with how many feet your layout plan is, not very hard, minus the turnouts of course and this should give you a good idea how many sections of flex you will need.

Honestly i think flex-track is pretty easy to work with, you can get curves perfect with flex.


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