# Static Electricity when trains run



## Single Driver Steam (Apr 22, 2016)

Hi all,

After finally wiring up my 3x6 HO layout, I discovered yet another problem that is preventing me from moving on to the scenery phase of modeling (where my interest really lies, I HATE wiring). 

The tracks all receive power as expected, however now when I run one of my trains, the locomotives generate a tremendous amount of static electricity (I want to say sparks as well, however the light generated where the wheels contact rail appears blue rather than orange) which seems to also impede on their performance. I'm running Bachmann classic series engines, 4-2-0's plus a John Bull and a DeWitt Clinton, which are already notoriously poor runners to begin with, but I think this is making things worse. Before I started building my actual layout I had the tracks set up on a wooden plywood board and never experienced the static issue. Now I have the tracks laid directly on top of the foam core board and I'm seeing this occur every time I run a train and with all locomotives. 

Could this be a result of the tracks being laid directly atop the insulation foam? I know the traditional method is to lay tracks on top of cork or other type of roadbed, however I'm modeling the 1830's when tracks did not tend to have large embankments or ballast. Any thoughts?


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I have never seen a thread in 15 years of hobby forums where anyone felt that their trains generated any static electricity. The arcing you describe is just that...arcing between the sintered metal tires and the rails, often at gaps or over insulators, and where rail heights are uneven or where the bearing surface of the rails are heavily soiled or oxidized.


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## Single Driver Steam (Apr 22, 2016)

mesenteria said:


> I have never seen a thread in 15 years of hobby forums where anyone felt that their trains generated any static electricity. The arcing you describe is just that...arcing between the sintered metal tires and the rails, often at gaps or over insulators, and where rail heights are uneven or where the bearing surface of the rails are heavily soiled or oxidized.


Please keep in mind that I am new to this hobby and have minimal understanding of electricity. Could you elaborate on what arcing is, what kind of effects it will have on operations, and how to mitigate the problem? 

Not everyone here has years of experience or knowledge under their belts.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

i was surprised by the mention static electricity (in the other thread) which is the stripping of electrons from material by another. Rubbing a balloon and it attracts you hair or when there's a spark when you touch a door handle in dry whether because you drag your shoes across the carpet. (electric motors don't run on static electricity).

the sparks are arcing -- a current (plasma) between two electrical conductors separated by a gap.

I've never heard/read about wheels sparking (although there were sparks from the lawn tractor battery terminal the other day). I suggest cleaning both the wheels and track.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

gregc said:


> i was surprised by the mention static electricity...
> 
> I've never heard/read about wheels sparking (although there were sparks from the lawn tractor battery terminal the other day). I suggest cleaning both the wheels and track.


Sparking in HO is quite possible. Years back I started in hobby with a pile of old dusty toy grade stuff. For brief moments it was running in between sitting stalled it was sparkling very happily )and smelly. 

OP , as Greg said your problem is dirty wheels and track. The heat generated by sparks will further bake the loose dust/grime to the surface compounding the problem. 
don't use abrasives to clean. 
Do use alcohol to dissolve and soften the grime (don't leave puddles, wipe dry)
Do try to get to wiper contactors picking up power from wheels, chances are this surfaces are affected too. 

Good luck


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Single Driver Steam said:


> Please keep in mind that I am new to this hobby and have minimal understanding of electricity. Could you elaborate on what arcing is, what kind of effects it will have on operations, and how to mitigate the problem?
> 
> Not everyone here has years of experience or knowledge under their belts.


It seems you felt my tone was a bit sharp..? I did not intend it, but only to make clear that I have never heard of any observations about static, only arcing. I'll try to elaborate:


Virtually every layout has this condition. If you can darken your room and run trains, you should notice arcing. The arcing is what happens when electricity strong enough to 'reach' between two conductive surfaces does so, but the only way it accomplishes that is to superheat the medium in which it travels, that being the air. It is essentially lightening, and we all know what that looks like. This is a type of lightening, but not a form of static.

If you wish to minimize the arcing, you must do three things in no particular order:

a. lay level trackage so that there are no/few dips that render one wheel lifted as the locomotive or lighted car passes over the dips;

b. keep the track bearing surfaces clear of organic 'tars' (black gunk that is generated during arcing), dust, and of oxidation; and

c. keep the metal tires of the locomotives and rolling stock clean. In fact, it is generally preferable to run only metal wheels on your rolling stock because of this reason. Many come with plastic wheels if they are stock older than about 2010 or so.

I had not intended to sound terse or abrupt in my first comment if that is how you experienced it.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

As mentioned, use alcohol to clean rails.
KEEP IT AWAY FROM PAINTED TRAIN LOCOS AND CARS, it can remove some types of paint quite easily.


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## Single Driver Steam (Apr 22, 2016)

mesenteria said:


> It seems you felt my tone was a bit sharp..? I did not intend it, but only to make clear that I have never heard of any observations about static, only arcing. I'll try to elaborate:
> 
> 
> Virtually every layout has this condition. If you can darken your room and run trains, you should notice arcing. The arcing is what happens when electricity strong enough to 'reach' between two conductive surfaces does so, but the only way it accomplishes that is to superheat the medium in which it travels, that being the air. It is essentially lightening, and we all know what that looks like. This is a type of lightening, but not a form of static.
> ...


My apologies for misreading the initial post, perhaps that's due to intimidation on my part from the overall lack of confidence around some technical aspects of this hobby. Thank you for providing insight into the arcing I'm experiencing, glad it is not impeding on my layout's performance. 

I agree about the metal wheels (even from an aesthetic perspective I think they look better), all of my equipment feature these. I have not cleaned the track or wheel treads in some time so I will likely go head and do that. My tracks are completely level, though I do notice that the rails do not all connect perfectly (some rails have a hairline pocket of space where they meet, with the rail joiners keeping everything together). Perhaps that is also contributing to the arcing. 

As everything is wired up and my track plan is decided on, I'd like to proceed gluing down the tracks to my foam core base (plan to use a thin coat of plaster in lieu of foam-corrosive glues). Would I be able to perform this task given the arcing I'm experiencing? Does laying track directly on foam core surface contribute to arcing in any way?


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

First, I'd clean the track, as mentioned above. A small cloth and some 91% isopropyl alcohol will get this done.

The engine wheels may need cleaning, too.

I'm thinking that the small engines you have are quite "light" as well -- not much "weight upon the drivers". Also, the wheel arrangements (4-2-0, etc.) are so "short" that they don't offer a lot of "contact points" (more wheels) between the rails and the engines.

Thus, the _-contact-_ between the wheels (which pickup the electricity in the rails) may be "on the weak side" -- with intermittent "makes and breaks" as the engines move along. This will result in some sparking as the electricity tries to "jump" from the rails to the wheels.

Even "modern" model diesel engines (4 axle and 6 axle) can have pickup problems on dirty track, or if the wheels aren't clean. So I'll guess these kind of problems will often be "amplified" with small, light locomotives with few axles.

I spent much of my career on the "big engines" running Amtrak electric locomotives, which used 12,000 volts ac. You could lean out the cab window and watch 12,000 volt arcs 3 feet above your head!


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Single Driver Steam said:


> ...
> As everything is wired up and my track plan is decided on, I'd like to proceed gluing down the tracks to my foam core base (plan to use a thin coat of plaster in lieu of foam-corrosive glues). Would I be able to perform this task given the arcing I'm experiencing? Does laying track directly on foam core surface contribute to arcing in any way?


If you could stand some advice, make darned good 'n sure the foam board is supported well on about 18" centers, more frequent if the core is less than 1" in thickness. You don't want undulations eventually where things begin to sag.

It isn't necessarily a bad idea to lay plaster in an effort to derive a truly planar surface...but...why not just use a thin sheen of cheap acrylic latex caulking. Specifically, I would recommend using DAP Alex Plus with silicone, and even more specifically the stuff that dries 'clear'. It looks like cold cream when applied, but it will dry inside of a couple of hours if spread thinly and take on a highly translucent, if yellowish, look. The clear stuff is the easiest to take up track elements from if that turns out to be an eventuality. It's also the most adhesive, especially when compared to the batch of the 'white' I used at the same time about six years ago.

First, though, I would determine if rendering the surface planar is really necessary, and that can be accomplished with backlighting and a 3' or 4' construction level. If you see gaps near the 3/32" range, then by all means fill them first along the right-of-way. (There's more to my advice, but I don't know what kind of track elements, flex or sectional, you are going to use. Sectional means a lot of joints, and they'll impart a lot of variance in height all by themselves. Flex means just that, but you can fill nether gaps and irregularities by simply pouring more ballast material there. etc.)


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You are using the term "foam core". In my experience, this refers to thin sheets of expanded foam with paper laminated to both sides. Thicknesses tend to range from 1/4" to 1/2". Is that what you are using? If so, it's not really sturdy enough to support a layout, and it may be flexing and causing some of your issues.

When we talk about "foam boards" for layout construction, we mean the extruded foam insulating panels which are usually sold at lumberyard and home improvement centers. Properly supported on 18" centers, these are extremely rigid and will hold a person's weight. Is that what you have?


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## Single Driver Steam (Apr 22, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> When we talk about "foam boards" for layout construction, we mean the extruded foam insulating panels which are usually sold at lumberyard and home improvement centers. Properly supported on 18" centers, these are extremely rigid and will hold a person's weight. Is that what you have?


That is correct. I'm using 1" insulation foam that is glued down to a wooden train table, so it's very sturdy and not causing any inconsistency in the track level.

Having now understand that the arc situation is not a result of static electricity or laying track directly on the insulation foam, I went ahead and glued my tracks down so I don't lose momentum on my layout construction. In the next few days I'll sit down and start to clean the rails and train wheels to see if that improves things with arcing.


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