# Baldwin Diesel 355 can motor?



## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

Hi all. I'm a new member with a question. My original Baldwin 355 has become fussy. The E unit is sticky and the brushes are worn down. It's just tired and I just want it to run. I'm thinking about one of those can motors and a search didn't turn up much. I see 'snstrains' & 'Portlines' offer them. Anyone else sell them? Which is the best one? I will do it myself and install a Dallee unit for reverse. Thanx.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

They are the two I'm familiar with, although I haven't replaced any. Portlines sells kits complete with the Dallee reverse unit. They also sell a DC version. As far as the best, I can't help you since I have no first hand knowledge but they are probably similar. The choice is up to you which way to go, but I've never heard anything negative about either SnS or Portlines.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

cramden said:


> They are the two I'm familiar with, although I haven't replaced any. Portlines sells kits complete with the Dallee reverse unit. They also sell a DC version. As far as the best, I can't help you since I have no first hand knowledge but they are probably similar. The choice is up to you which way to go, but I've never heard anything negative about either SnS or Portlines.


Thanx Cramden. I'm leaning towards the 'Portlines' unit. I've done business with them and always been happy. My roundhouse is all AC so I'm staying with it. The 3 Steamers; (Atlantic 307, Pacific 21084 & Pacific 21085) all run great and smoke like crazy.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

Another can motor question here. In reference to steamers & cans, I see 1/2 speed and full speed motors mentioned. It seems like the 1/2 speed (are these 2 amp?) might be better for smoke production? I'm just trying to think ahead. My steamers currently all work great.

I'm gonna try new brushes in my Baldwin before ordering a can motor for it. Depending on how that works out, I'll see.

I have gotten so much more info from this forum & members, I wish I'd discovered it sooner.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Here is a video that someone did exactly that with 1/2 speed DC can motors and using 20 ohms of resistance in the smoke units. It all depends on your preference, but it looks pretty good running. 



 I don't know what the amp rating is for the motors.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Call and take with S-n-s trains. 208-376-1159 They have been very helpful to me. I bought a can motor and Dallee electronic unit for my Northern. I can't comment on how they run as I have yet to finish my installation. The installation was easy but my smoke unit burnt out and I need to replace the ni-chrome wire but I expect no problems.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I have 3 355 Baldwins, and for the most part, they all run great. If you change the brushes, get the pre-assembled ones, they're much easier to install. Also, make sure the armature is centered in the u-shaped holder, it's critical!


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

flyernut said:


> I have 3 355 Baldwins, and for the most part, they all run great. If you change the brushes, get the pre-assembled ones, they're much easier to install. Also, make sure the armature is centered in the u-shaped holder, it's critical!


Where can I find an assembled brush/arm? All I've seen are the solder in (to the spring arms) brushes?

I've kept my Baldwin running well for 60 years, its just a bit tired now (like me). I have seen that video and it gave me the idea to change. Since its not a permanent swap I can hang unto the original parts. By the way, my armiture does not have any kind of thrust washers on the worm gear end. Do yours?


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

I've never bought any for the 355 so you might have to call Portlines about the soldered brushes on the holder. All of the listings I find don't list them that way. Maybe flyernut will be able to answer where he's bought them that way. As far as thrust washers, here is an exploded pic of a Baldwin. # 13 might be considered a thrust washer, and #14 is a fiber washer. I've only had one apart and it was years ago and I don't recall having to take apart the armature for any reason. http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album209/355_21801


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I think flyernut bought those brushes assembled from Jeff Kane (The Train Tender.com).
Somewhere in the 4 to 5 dollar each range.

Only diesels I have are flyonel. One has AC motors and mine does not have any thrust washer.
My steamers do but not the diesel. I think mine is very similar to an original. Takes the same brushes.


Welcome to the forum.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I've pulled the armature out of the yoke only for cleaning, it lines up ok. I know some steamers have a thrust washer on the worm gear side-metal I'm guessing. If there was supposed to be one, I probably lost it a long time ago and forgot about it. I was just checking, those exploded parts views haven't gotten any better in 50 years. 
I'll keep tinkering with it.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Pre-assembled brushes can be purchased from Jeff Kane at the Train Tender, phone# 1-585-229 2050, $4.50 for the pair, get 2 pairs..According to my exploded view, there should be a fiber washer and another washer at each end of the armature...part# PA1405-D for the plain washer, and part #P325D for the fiber washer.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

How would you get washers over the worm gear?


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

mopac said:


> How would you get washers over the worm gear?


You're right. I just peeked at it. I must've been thinking about a steamer armature (no gear). 
I'm missing the 2 referenced by Flyernut-thanx for the part numbers on that and Mr. Kanes phone number. I always buy extra's; cheap insurance.

Thanx to both of you!


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I always set up my Flyer's at X-mas. This winter because of rotator cuff surgery, I've had a sling on until recently, limiting everything I can do except play with my trains.

My wife is cutting me some slack on this, so I'm still set up in a spare bedroom, having fun! I may need a similar excuse next winter...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have bought from Jeff Kane a few times. He carries most AF parts. I try to get my
parts from him. First time I called him we were on the phone for 2 hours and very little
of it was about trains. He is very friendly and helpful. His prices are as good as any place.
LOL, don't call him if you don't have some time. We are lucky to have him in the S hobby.
He also has O scale lionel parts. I love my O scale stuff, but I just can't get use to 3 rail
track. It bothers me.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> How would you get washers over the worm gear?


Heck if I know Al. I never needed to add to them. I'm guessing you use a pull or press to get the gear off.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

This is strictly my opinion but the very best reference/part manual out there is the "Complete service manual for American Flyer Trains" by K-line. I believe it's out of print now and expensive, but it's where I get all my part numbers from and blow up diagrams. If you're going to putz around with AF, get this book!.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I've been happy ordering from both 'Portlines' & 'TnTrains' in the past. I've never talked to Doug nor Jeff. If I had any question about a part #, or availablity, I would do so. I know about that reference manual and been keeping my eyes open (Flea Bay) for it. Thanx.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I use the same book as flyernut and second his recommendation.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

I also have this book, most of the diagrams are right out of the factory manual. The Baldwin motor is different from the PA motor. The washers,#13/14 slide onto the Baldwin armature once the plastic gear,#21 is removed from the shaft on one end. I think I just pried it off with a screwdriver. The worm gears are on the worm shaft which is underneath the armature and have no washers inside of the worm gears. Another gear on the end of the worm shaft meshes with the armature gear. The yoke that AmFlyerFan refers to is part of the PA motor assembly and not used on the Baldwin motor. There are two worm gears on the PA armature which I believe are part of the armature assembly and no washers are inside of those worm gears. I'll look and see if I have an example of each armature in my parts and post a pic. if I find them. Here's a pic, Baldwin armature on top, PA on the bottom.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Armature picture added to previous post.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

cramden said:


> Armature picture added to previous post.


Aha, you just jogged my memory!! I haven't had a Baldwin motor apart in years, and now I remember that armature.. In fact, I picked up a NOS armature years ago because of the problems associated with Baldwins.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I will try to include 3 pictures from the electrical data book. The armature pictured is late production and unlikely to be found in a 355. If one is working on an original repair restoration of a Baldwin this may be helpful.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Here is the 3rd picture.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

The one in my pic is a 355 from 1957, the red and white box is marked 355-21800 but the cab is a 355. Interestingly, my original 1957 Flying Freighter set(20305) also had the two numbers stamped on the red and white box. A somewhat confusing year for Gilbert with the new 5 digit numbering system.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I have some 3 digit streamline passenger cars in 5 digit boxes. My 355 is in a 355 box and the 21801 and 21808 are in the correct stamped boxes. I think all of my OB, SB 1957 sets have something 3 digit in them. When I put those sets and contents into my inventory decades ago I did not capture all the box number vs car number details. Back then I did not think it was important. I guess getting out all the sets and unpacking them to look can be a future retirement project.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

My green & yellow cap (355) is imprinted SAP 1957 on the inside.
Everything is original to the X-mas I got it. I added a replacement 3 trumpet horn, the steps are all intact, a minor crack around the hole on the back. I always did take care of my toys. I think the set originally came in a box. Only the extra track had boxes-long gone now.
Cramden, the top photo (armature) is mine, minus the plastic gear. My commutator has a small wear groove from the brushes. They are shot and will be replaced. If new brushes don't do the trick, I'll probably just put a can motor in it. When buying new brushes I'll pick up those 2 washers, just to have. I might also get some new fingers (white ones), one has a drop of solder underneth it. The reverse unit is working pretty well now.

I'm never amazed about all the info on the web these days. But I'm glad it's there!


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

AmFlyerFan said:


> My green & yellow cap (355) is imprinted SAP 1957 on the inside.
> Everything is original to the X-mas I got it. I added a replacement 3 trumpet horn, the steps are all intact, a minor crack around the hole on the back. I always did take care of my toys. I think the set originally came in a box. Only the extra track had boxes-long gone now.
> Cramden, the top photo (armature) is mine, minus the plastic gear. My commutator has a small wear groove from the brushes. They are shot and will be replaced. If new brushes don't do the trick, I'll probably just put a can motor in it. When buying new brushes I'll pick up those 2 washers, just to have. I might also get some new fingers (white ones), one has a drop of solder underneth it. The reverse unit is working pretty well now.
> 
> I'm never amazed about all the info on the web these days. But I'm glad it's there!


My 355 from my 1957 set is also all original. The screw hole is cracked on mine, not from over tightening but I believe from the plastic heating and cooling in my parents attic for 30 years. Most of these you find run hot and have been run to death. It wasn't one of Gilbert's better designs. Mine runs like new because it was only used at Christmastime for about 10 years. The other two I have don't run as well. I think if one of mine wouldn't run I would opt for the AC can motor with the Dallee reverse.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

cramden said:


> Most of these you find run hot and have been run to death. It wasn't one of Gilbert's better designs. Mine runs like new because it was only used at Christmastime for about 10 years.


That! I've stayed away from buying a used Baldwin on Flea Bay for those reasons.

I had some questions when I recently joined, but I've got back about a year (pg 10) in these threads. The same people keep turning up with the answers. This place is a GoldMine!


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

There is a lot of good people on here that are always willing to help, what one can't answer, another one can. It's a fun place to hang out and I'm still learning new things about American Flyer.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I bought one of my 355's at a train show. The seller said it was completely gone through and rebuilt, ran like a scalded dog. I got home from the show, put it on the track,gave it power, it went approx 2 feet, and up in smoke it went..I hate people,lol...in fact I bought 2 loco's at that show and both were junk, even a brand new Lionel Northern, still in the box and never run..


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

"Buyer Beware" everywhere. 
I do a lot with CraigsList, mainly Harley parts. Right now we have a bathroom vanity & sink on it. With all the "tire kickers"; could've sold it 7 or 8 times...

Locally I used to go to train shows, not many now here now, and few S gauge sellers. Nothing wrong HO gauge, my younger brothers got that stuff along with the slot cars. Only 2 local Hobby shops 1 in Mpls., 1 in St. Paul; very limited selection of AF stuff.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I just sold a bunch of trains to a stranger last night I connected with on facebook marketplace. Whenever I sell to a stranger, there's usually 2-3 people on hand who "carry". Last night was no exception.. Everyone in the family has a permit to carry concealed except for me, I never felt the need.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I hear ya! Our world has become a dangerous place; I'd hate to see someone hurt over a toy...


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

I was able to get the K-Line Complete Service Manual For American Flyer from ebay last night.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I hope you got a deal on it. I've seen 2 1957 D-2006 American Flyer catalogs that feature my Baldwin 355 diesel set. 1 on Flea Bay for $40.00 + minimal shipping. 1 locally on CraigsList; $15.00 + $2.00 shipping, or I can drive 1 hr and pick it up. Both are about the same condition, I'm leaning towards a 'road trip'.


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

$36.35 isbn 0-934580-065

400 pages
Did I do okay?


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Jwh2000 said:


> $36.35 isbn 0-934580-065
> 
> 400 pages
> Did I do okay?


That's a good price for it. I don't remember what mine cost way back when, but I've seen them a lot higher than that on ebay.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

Me too. I think you got a deal.


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

Thanks


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Good price...


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

flyernut said:


> I have 3 355 Baldwins, and for the most part, they all run great. If you change the brushes, get the pre-assembled ones, they're much easier to install. Also, make sure the armature is centered in the u-shaped holder, it's critical!


Hi Flyernut! I hope you had a wonderful holiday season. I am working on a 355 now, have brought it back from the dead, and it is running quite well in my opinion, but it gets HOT! I am wondering if you have any go-to's on these engines for heat problems. I am planning on checking the fiber washer, and also wondering why armature centering is critical and if it might affect engine heat? Just trying to figure it out. I have not run it since I did a full lube of the unpowered truck. It had some friction, but I think I still have another issue that is causing excessive heat. Any advice would be appreciated as always! 
Tim


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

TimmyD said:


> Hi Flyernut! I hope you had a wonderful holiday season. I am working on a 355 now, have brought it back from the dead, and it is running quite well in my opinion, but it gets HOT! I am wondering if you have any go-to's on these engines for heat problems. I am planning on checking the fiber washer, and also wondering why armature centering is critical and if it might affect engine heat? Just trying to figure it out. I have not run it since I did a full lube of the unpowered truck. It had some friction, but I think I still have another issue that is causing excessive heat. Any advice would be appreciated as always!
> Tim


Hi Tim...I have 3 355's and none of them get hot. It could be the armature getting ready to crap the bed. Centering the armature is critical for proper engine running, and if it isn't, it could lead to over-heating. That's my best geuss from afar. Do your regular service, brushes, brush springs, clean armature face and the slots. If the slots are dirty, that will lead to over-heating. Also check for hardened grease, etc. I know you're no dummy, you probably have done everything I stated... Forgive me if I have forgotten, but are you the gentleman I met just off 690 near Baldwinsville?? I get alot of mail and such, and old age is creeping up on me,lol..Loren


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

flyernut said:


> Hi Tim...I have 3 355's and none of them get hot. It could be the armature getting ready to crap the bed. Centering the armature is critical for proper engine running, and if it isn't, it could lead to over-heating. That's my best geuss from afar. Do your regular service, brushes, brush springs, clean armature face and the slots. If the slots are dirty, that will lead to over-heating. Also check for hardened grease, etc. I know you're no dummy, you probably have done everything I stated... Forgive me if I have forgotten, but are you the gentleman I met just off 690 near Baldwinsville?? I get alot of mail and such, and old age is creeping up on me,lol..Loren


Thanks Flyernut,
I actually had not done everything you mentioned. I was just trying to get it to go, and then went down a path without a full service, I often will reuse brushes if they still look servicable... I know I have an out of spec brush spring, it was loose and I bent it a little to get a little more tension. I have also since cleaned up the non-powered truck which was creating some friction. I will revisit and re-clean the armature, and see what happens. Thank you sir, and happy new year!
Tim


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

TimmyD said:


> Hi Flyernut! I hope you had a wonderful holiday season. I am working on a 355 now, have brought it back from the dead, and it is running quite well in my opinion, but it gets HOT! I am wondering if you have any go-to's on these engines for heat problems. I am planning on checking the fiber washer, and also wondering why armature centering is critical and if it might affect engine heat? Just trying to figure it out. I have not run it since I did a full lube of the unpowered truck. It had some friction, but I think I still have another issue that is causing excessive heat. Any advice would be appreciated as always!
> Tim


Hi TimmyD, I have 2 of the Baldwins Diesels # 355, one since X-mas 1957. Neither runs hot. My original one I converted to a can motor. best thing I ever did to it. It runs super, the only limitation with these is traction. But I can still pull 5 box/tank cars & caboose. The original motored one has those finicky brushes. I've had a devil of a time soldiering those brushes. I wouldn't say I've got the hang of it, but it too runs well now.


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

AmFlyerFan said:


> Hi TimmyD, I have 2 of the Baldwins Diesels # 355, one since X-mas 1957. Neither runs hot. My original one I converted to a can motor. best thing I ever did to it. It runs super, the only limitation with these is traction. But I can still pull 5 box/tank cars & caboose. The original motored one has those finicky brushes. I've had a devil of a time soldiering those brushes. I wouldn't say I've got the hang of it, but it too runs well now.


Thanks FlyerFan, I will keep that in mind. I don't have and won't have a permanent layout for many years if ever, so am not terribly worried about pulling a ton of cars, or steep grades, but if that is the one my daughter wants to see, I still want to have it run decently well pulling a couple of cars. I have a little more maintenance to do. While the can motor sounds like a great upgrade if you are running it a lot, I will probably opt to geep it stock even if I don't get it to run much better. When I recieved it, the frame was bent in a half circle, shell in 3 pieces, and the non-pickup wheels were nothing but rust. Now it looks and operates like a train again, just don't look too close! 
TimmyD


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyerFan said:


> Hi TimmyD, I have 2 of the Baldwins Diesels # 355, one since X-mas 1957. Neither runs hot. My original one I converted to a can motor. best thing I ever did to it. It runs super, the only limitation with these is traction. But I can still pull 5 box/tank cars & caboose. The original motored one has those finicky brushes. I've had a devil of a time soldiering those brushes. I wouldn't say I've got the hang of it, but it too runs well now.


I too had the 355 for a Christmas present back in 1957. Dad sold all our trains, but I've replaced everyone I had as a kid. I have 3 355's with the appropriate cars to make up the sets.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

I have the same K-Line service manual also plus all 3 of Tom Barker's manuals.

Kenny


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Those K-Line manuals on eBay can be a price gamble. I paid 25.00+shipping. It looked new. My best advise is to not jump on the first one you see. I went through all eBay pages listing the K-Line manual listings to the end. I saw all kinds of prices with the 25.00 one I have being the cheapest with no damage to the hard back cover. Some were. As I said mine looks and feels brand new. 

Kenny


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