# ebay Pricing and Marketplaces



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I have been buying a lot of rolling stock, and supporting the hobby with MTH orders from the LHS. When I get my 2018 MTH order done, there are a few items I will place on order from Lionel from their 2019 catalog. 

I recently reached out to a seller of an item I wanted because like most of what is on ebay, it was overpriced and kept going on and on as a Buy It Now auction. (auction - ha!) 

He wanted $50 plus $14 shipping and I think I offered $40 total. At $64, I can buy new from the LHS right? And no shipping cost. I may not be able to get THAT exact item but I can fill my shelves with cool rolling stock from the LHS or regional meets/shows. 

His response was: "Thanks but I would go out of *BUSINESS* if I sold it for that and we have no control over shipping costs." That caught my attention. I should not be surprised but I wish that ebay and other on line markets would separate the BUSINESSES from the hobbyists!

I never get back what I pay for an item, right? And I'm not really interested in haggling. I have a TON of Fastrack, and I will need to sell some of it because I went nuts and bought too much. I will put it in the Buy/Sell here at 50% off, so a $7.50 piece will be $3.75. The last time I put items on here, they sold and I lost money on shipping and also for that MTH Union Pacific Centennial I put that on ebay and lost $ on shipping. 

Why aren't LHS doing better if a person dollar cost averages in the exhorbitant shipping as part of the total cost to purchase something? 

Obviously this rant is going in many directions, but the bottom line is value for what a hobbyist receives. I am going to place more orders and get more items from my LHS and shows - I am pretty much done with ebay except for rare items I just can't get anywhere else and feel I need/want. 

I don't want to deal with *BUSINESSES* on ebay. Please separate them out!


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

There's someone selling a MTH early 5V PS2 mikado in Rutland I would very much like to have. Knowing it's a 5volt board and it doesn't have much life in it before it fries, I would say it's not worth no more than 400-450 but the guy wants 750.00 Been on ebay for months and hasn't sold. Wonder why.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2019)

The buyer in this case is always in control. Like Gary, you just say no to any overpriced items.


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## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

Always interesting when this topic comes up.

Shipping is a real cost, and one that has become a much larger one that just a couple years ago. Today, I sent a single K-line 21" car to Washington state, the shipping was $22.00, had I sold it with free shipping I would have paid 22% of the sale price to get it to that fellow. Not reasonable. 

Just a bit of a seller prospective, if shipping was $8 or $10 like it was 5+ years ago, sure why not, but when the shipping is now $25, $35, or $50+ you have to do your homework before accepting an offer which includes shipping. Nothing stinks like selling a set of passenger cars at a loss, and then finding that you have to pay $60 to ship them across the country -- on a one off the hit stinks, if you're selling a few dozen items a year the hit is a new engine.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2019)

Bryan, there are a lot of businesses on eBay. Some of them are internet only and some have a brick and mortar store but use eBay for their internet sales. Some are good businessmen and some aren't. I haven't bought anything on eBay for quite a while but when I do make a purchase, like you, I add the price of the item and the shipping and if that total is reasonable I'll make the purchase. I don't care if it's a business or a hobbyist I am buying from as long as it's a price I'm willing to pay.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I see a lot of ridiculous prices and just don't try to contact of negotiate. Generally get a result like you went over. I guess those guys either can stay in business (must be a lot of uninformed buyers if they do).

I won't pay over 80% for something I can buy new. I've found it best to just go with a reputable dealer I can work with work with if the price is lose to normal NIB. 

But I will admit that when I see something rare, that I want, I jump, and just hit "Buy Now." I'm one of those that might be driving up prices, but its on pretty rare stuff, I must say, not what you can get new at retailers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You guys are too easy. I refuse to pay more than about 60% of street price for used items. The only exceptions are a handful of things I "really" wanted. Otherwise, another one will come along, they're like trains.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

One of the great things about a monthly train show. I can usually pick up rolling stock for $10-$25.

I passed on a UP VisionLine Genset yesterday at $400. Still kicking myself. When the seller opened it up it just looked "dirty", like I said, still kicking myself!!


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

superwarp1 said:


> There's someone selling a MTH early 5V PS2 mikado in Rutland I would very much like to have. Knowing it's a 5volt board and it doesn't have much life in it before it fries, I would say it's not worth no more than 400-450 but the guy wants 750.00 Been on ebay for months and hasn't sold. Wonder why.


If you can't find them ready made, have someone print up a bunch of Rutland decals. Then find any Mikado in your price range and reletter it. Of my three Moguls only one was lettered NYC at the factory. The other two were relettered. Same for an 0-8-0.

Pete


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2019)

I'll stick with the hobby stores I have been dealing with. Every time I have found something, ( not too much ), On E-Bay and looked up the seller there has always been something wrong. One person was a convicted con artist and disbarred lawyer! Yes I may pay a little more but I have piece of mind.

Regards,

Gary.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

I have a friend reletter my engines. Don’t worry I’m not buying that at that price. I have purchased on eBay before, that 3rdrail junker I got on ebay. Nice runner after a few fixes


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

CincinnatiWestern said:


> Always interesting when this topic comes up.
> 
> Shipping is a real cost, and one that has become a much larger one that just a couple years ago. Today, I sent a single K-line 21" car to Washington state, the shipping was $22.00, had I sold it with free shipping I would have paid 22% of the sale price to get it to that fellow. Not reasonable.
> 
> Just a bit of a seller prospective, if shipping was $8 or $10 like it was 5+ years ago, sure why not, but when the shipping is now $25, $35, or $50+ you have to do your homework before accepting an offer which includes shipping. Nothing stinks like selling a set of passenger cars at a loss, and then finding that you have to pay $60 to ship them across the country -- on a one off the hit stinks, if you're selling a few dozen items a year the hit is a new engine.


Cincy's post is spot on. I think most of us here have a gut feel that shipping costs have increased significantly in recent years. However, until you really need to pay those costs, it's not real $$$. Most dealers incorporate some of the shipping costs into their "selling prices", which disguises REAL shipping costs with smoke and mirrors. But with one-off individual train sales via private individuals, there's often no way around real shipping costs. Insurance is another costly component of shipping expensive items too.

I've lost more than a few transactions because the buyer wants to haggle incessantly or won't pay shipping w/insurance. But as the old saying goes, some days you just need to know when to walk away. A lot of folks out there think sellers are always "desperate" to make a sale, so they push to the point that the transaction moves into win-lose territory. I have no problem whatsoever walking away from those deals when that happens -- especially when the asking prices are already very, VERY fair. 

Fortunately though, there are lots of buyers out there looking for good but fair deals. I enjoyed selling at Allentown last November. And a nice bonus of Allentown and York sales is the buyer saves on shipping costs, which are often significant for bulky or heavy items. So that takes the shipping cost right out of the equation. And some of the Standard Gauge items I'm now selling definitely fall into the bulky category.  So I encourage folks interested in those items to take advantage of Allentown and/or York deliveries. If it takes a year to sell some of these goodies, that's OK to. I'm not in a rush, if it means giving stuff away. 

David


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

For all the fastrack and a half dozen freight cars I sold off not that long ago I started eating or capping the shipping as this seemed a sticking point for some. Generally I got pretty good at meeting or beating flat rate boxes, or just had a feel for likely ball park cost of my custom boxes. I also felt in some cases I reached points farther afield. As I bought the bulk of it used anyway I wasn't too attached to a perceived value, and this helped.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Jeff T said:


> One of the great things about a monthly train show. I can usually pick up rolling stock for $10-$25.
> 
> I passed on a UP VisionLine Genset yesterday at $400. Still kicking myself. When the seller opened it up it just looked "dirty", like I said, still kicking myself!!



$10 to $25 and no shipping. I can go $35 to $40 at a show because of no shipping.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You guys are too easy. I refuse to pay more than about 60% of street price for used items. The only exceptions are a handful of things I "really" wanted. Otherwise, another one will come along, they're like trains.


That's exactly the formula my dad and I use. We've got some great deals on eBay and at shows. We've had a few buys that weren't as good as we'd hoped, but have never been ripped off.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Maxum said:


> That's exactly the formula my dad and I use. We've got some great deals on eBay and at shows. We've had a few buys that weren't as good as we'd hoped, but have never been ripped off.


The days of our trains being worth something after we take them out of the box are long gone. It's like buying a car, the minute you drive it off the lot it loses 25% of its value.


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## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

superwarp1 said:


> The days of our trains being worth something after we take them out of the box are long gone. It's like buying a car, the minute you drive it off the lot it loses 25% of its value.


Gary,

Dead honest question -- why are trains worth 25% less the second you buy them? 

General Comment

Last I checked, the retail prices have climbed a lot over the past couple years, so why would a new in the box car or engine that is two or three years old (same PS3/Legacy as new) now be worth 75% of its original MSRP when to buy new is now 30%+ more. 

In 2014 MTH released an E8 ABA set, which they released again this year, almost the same set-up except both A units have full PS3 boards vs a master/slave. The street prices in 2014 were $675.00, in 2019 the street price is $1048.00. The delta on these is $375.00. If selling the 2014 set new in the box, why would one lower the sale price by the 25% to 40% noted, that increases the delta between brand new and same tech new in the box but 4 years old to $545 to $650! 

I get that everyone loves a deal, but if these two E8 ABA sets were on a shelf and the sole difference is master/salve vs master/master in the A units, is the $375.00 discount not enough, why the need to up that discount? 

This, and the love of finding some poor widow or kids who don't know what their husband or father / grandfather's stuff is worth, are the two oddest aspects of this hobby. There are no market forces which would drive prices down 25% to 40% for new merchandise, in fact as noted above the rising retail prices should be pushing the value of new old stock (as long as same tech) higher, not lower as the delta between new and new old increases.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

CincinnatiWestern said:


> Gary,
> 
> Dead honest question -- why are trains worth 25% less the second you buy them?
> 
> General Comment


First off a second hand engine will no longer have a warranty. AFAIK manufacturers require a sales slip from an authorized dealer to have warranty work done.
Secondly, having observed pricing on older but new stock items, dealers will start offering drastic discounts on slow movers.
The lowest price seen on any item becomes my baseline for future purchases. 

Pete


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## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

As a buyer on EBay, I look at a items total price, if I’m comfortable at $60, I bid no higher. I take the emotion out of the sale, and don’t regret not winning. 

As a seller, I price things to sell. I’d rather get rid of stuff that I know I know I won’t use. That being said, I’m always surprised at what sells, and doesn’t. 

The best value are train shows. The show in Nanaimo recently I purchased a new Athearn switcher for $50 (cdn $), and some brand new vehicles for $5 a piece.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Andreash said:


> As a buyer on EBay, I look at a items total price, if I’m comfortable at $60, I bid no higher. I take the emotion out of the sale, and don’t regret not winning.


I go one step farther. I stick the price I'm willing to pay in my eBay sniper, and then just forget about it. If I get it, that's great, if not, it wasn't meant to be.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

CincinnatiWestern said:


> Gary,
> 
> Dead honest question -- why are trains worth 25% less the second you buy them?
> 
> ...


Easy, re-issues and newer electronics, is yesterdays Big Boy going to sell for the same price when the next one gets released, even if the next one is higher price? 

MY MTH L4 Mohawk, think I paid around 700-800 new ten years ago. I couldn't get 500 for it today, I know I tried. MTH re-released them so now there's a glut of them.

Hudsons, we crazy people are going to be snapping up Lionels new J3 at over 1300 bucks, try selling one a couple of weeks later and see what you get.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

superwarp1 said:


> ....
> 
> Hudsons, we crazy people are going to be snapping up Lionels new J3 at over 1300 bucks, try selling one a couple of weeks later and see what you get.


Defies any logic whatsoever. People gladly hand over premium $$$$ to Lionel dealers for just-released, new products. Then those same folks are the worst hagglers when they wanna low-ball sellers on the third-party market. Happens over and over... and over... again! 

Some things just can't be explained. 

David


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## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Defies any logic whatsoever. People gladly hand over premium $$$$ to Lionel dealers for just-released, new products. Then those same folks are the worst hagglers when they wanna low-ball sellers on the third-party market. Happens over and over... and over... again!
> 
> Some things just can't be explained.
> 
> David


David,

I guess it is just time to accept that trains are immune to market forces and rules of economics. Supply and demand be demned! 

:dunno:


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> ...and we have no control over shipping costs."


True that they have no control over shipping costs, HOWEVER, they do control what they in turn charge you for shipping!

I see so many items for sale at a nice price. Maybe it is a low price to get your attention. Yet, when you look at the shipping costs, they are way out of line! They are trying to stick it to you on the shipping side. Personally, I don't think it is ethical, so, I will pass them up.


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## Dieseler (Jan 29, 2014)

As a buyer on ebay for a few pre and postwar model trains and parts and some antique windup clocks and parts shipping cost are different with the individual. Some charge way to much and some are very reasonable.
Shipping is one of the first things i look for along with price and have passed on many when the shipping was in outer space even after sending a message to seller.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I have no idea why this is but it is -- like a new car just recently purchased, the value drops the moment the car leaves the dealer. And it keeps dropping even if it sits unused.
Model trains are similar in nature in my mind. And while I have no real idea on any particular item's value, I pretty much expect to see 50% or more off used for something I could buy new at Train World, etc... and some for shipping. 
It's not a rule, just a feeling.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Big Jim said:


> True that they have no control over shipping costs, HOWEVER, they do control what they in turn charge you for shipping!
> 
> I see so many items for sale at a nice price. Maybe it is a low price to get your attention. Yet, when you look at the shipping costs, they are way out of line! They are trying to stick it to you on the shipping side. Personally, I don't think it is ethical, so, I will pass them up.


That is why I employ what I call dollar cost averaging. Just tell me what the total is. In fact they should all be free shipping, just make the item what you want. $70? OK, let me see if the item is rare and if so, like Lee and others, I'll spring for it. 

$70 and an item I want anyway? Probably think about it, but at least I know the total cost without comparing to what other sellers have.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Severn said:


> I have no idea why this is but it is -- like a new car just recently purchased, the value drops the moment the car leaves the dealer. And it keeps dropping even if it sits unused.
> Model trains are similar in nature in my mind. And while I have no real idea on any particular item's value, I pretty much expect to see 50% or more off used for something I could buy new at Train World, etc... and some for shipping.
> It's not a rule, just a feeling.


They do drop for me, I know that! I sold my U.P. Centennial on ebay because I screwed up getting it needing a required O72 curve. My bad. Lost $250 on a brand new locomotive before you guys shared your knowledge about curves. 

What I was selling was at the time rarely seen on the market - a brand new MTH Premium model, but rarity and desirability did not seem to matter. In the case of my locomotive, I certainly was not going to ask the buyer to pay full retail + shipping which was pretty high. 

All I want is the dealers to sell from a different platform other than ebay, which I know won't happen. 

For those who browse Craigs List for cars, or some other items, you know there is a tab in the upper left corner: DEALER - PRIVATE - BOTH 

I always click on PRIVATE and 80% of the ads go away. Why doesn't ebay have that? Money, that's why. 

But then when I go in to do my weekly searches for ROCK ISLAND - I see the same ads over and over - no change in prices. I guess they renew each time, forever. If others are like me, then we are over saturated viewing their items, where is the new buyer going to come from?


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

In its way I'm positive about the model train resell market... it is ... you know lively. And there are options. I haven't had any trouble yet selling the items I want to sell... Or buying for that matter. True I'm taking a hit on value but I'm getting some of it back. Except for big ticket items (car etc...) most other used things I own are give always when done with them ... or go into the trash.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I go one step farther. I stick the price I'm willing to pay in my eBay sniper, and then just forget about it. If I get it, that's great, if not, it wasn't meant to be.


For sure. I use Gavelsnipe. Set it and forget it. When I got started on ebay, I was a bachelor right out of college and I used to check it out latenight when I rolled in from the bar. Whoa! Let's just say there were some bad buys.:goofball:


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I don't use snipping software and in fact don't normally bid, just find what I want offered as "buy it now." About half the diecast vehicles I buy now are that way on ebay or etsy.

But voccasionally, I will "nuke" rather than snipe - a practice I realize can drive up prices, but on the other hand it usually gets me what I want. I submit a ridiculously high bid on an item I want and hope I get it at a much lower price because of the proxy bidding method that e-bay uses to determine your final price. I realize I ahve to be prepared to pay that high price, but don't expect to most times. 

It usually succeeds. Six years ago I REALLY wanted a Marx 1930s tinplate boxcar just like one my Dad had had. Rather than even try to figure out what to bid on a very actively bid item, I bid $1100 (the high bid at the time was around $85) and went to bed expecting to get it. I did, at $315 - there were lots of bids after I went to bed but none got even close to my "nuke."

One time, and one time only, I was "out-nuked" I wanted a Marklin tinplate windup tinplate battleship from the early 2oth century. I bid twelve times the current price just several hours before the close - a price my research told me was high for the item. It went for about only about fifty dollars over what I bid. Someone outnuked me! I should have bid more - never seen another one for sale since . .


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I don't get ebay at all. I don't use it much, except to look at things I may want and try to ascertain some idea of the pricing around it. The one time I bid, all I got is that 2 people -- I being one of them -- were slowly bidding up an item. And then late in the game 10 people appeared and bid it up even higher while I slept... it was a strange thing and in the end, i though grossly overpriced for it's worth.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Many times ebay is the only place hard to find items show up. If you see it at York then it likely has a higher price tag. The only way to work eBay is to snipe. No point thinking its a normal auction. Too many wishy washy folks who start at a number, see you posting a higher number then decide to raise your bid. Place your best price with seconds to go and take your chances. With the countdown clock now visible its pretty easy to do.
As for shipping you should factor that in BEFORE bidding. Same with a buyers premium. Its all part of the price.

Pete


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Well it makes sense that's a ginormous resource. I should probably try to use it more. And get some sense of how it really works. It's appealing for hard to find items. I don't have too much of that, but from time to time I do ...


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Norton said:


> Many times ebay is the only place hard to find items show up. If you see it at York then it likely has a higher price tag. The only way to work eBay is to snipe. No point thinking its a normal auction. Too many wishy washy folks who start at a number, see you posting a higher number then decide to raise your bid. Place your best price with seconds to go and take your chances. With the countdown clock now visible its pretty easy to do.
> As for shipping you should factor that in BEFORE bidding. Same with a buyers premium. Its all part of the price.
> 
> Pete


Yes, this is sound advice. It's what they call "shill bidding". Basically, sellers set up dummy accounts or have a friend bid to drive up the price. It's pervasive in sports memorabilia collecting. I used to be into that. I haven't witnessed much of it in the train hobby but I'm sure it exists. The way to protect yourself is to snipe. You type in your highest bid, wait until 5 seconds are left, and hit submit. You win or you lose but no one has a chance to shill. Rather than snipe, you can use a free service (I use "Gavelsnipe") that will snipe your auctions for you. That's all there is to ebay. Do that and it's a very good marketplace.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

It appears that we all have our own perspectives and opinions on eBay and LHSs. About 95% of my trains were obtained off eBay and Trainz Marketplace. 

Both are good sources for items one may not find elsewhere. I also either "nuke" or "snipe" for items I really want and have been lucky in getting them at reasonable prices, even with shipping factored in.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

While I agree some ebayers do ask what I see as unreasonable amounts for their items they are fully within their right to ask whatever they please for their property. That's the beauty of free market - no one is obligated to sell or buy, it's all voluntary. 
I sure love getting a good deal, but can't reasonably expect there is absolutely no one in hobby who will offer more. Life...

PS, think model trains are bad? Try second hand firearm markets, lol, some whacky offers there. There is a certain rifle I'd like to have in my collection for sentimental reason and I am slowly realizing that 4 digit pricetag for this piece of junk is the going price... Only I will know just how much that sentiment of mine is.

Best of luck!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I get a lot more stuff from forum purchases, friends, train shows, etc. I do get stuff from eBay, but they're way down the list.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Severn said:


> ... 2 people -- I being one of them -- were slowly bidding up an item. And then late in the game 10 people appeared and bid it up even higher while I slept... it was a strange thing and in the end, i though grossly overpriced for it's worth.


Pretty much how eBay bidding works (at least for trains). My theory: waiting until the last minute keeps the price low to begin with. And by waiting until the last second (literally), you may not give the other buyer a chance to outbid. Of course, that doesn't mitigate eBay's automatic bids should there be one.

I bought an item for a good price when the auction ended 8:30 am EST. A little early for West Coast bidders and many other folks were at work. And I lost the opportunity to bid on an item at a great price when bidding ended ~2:00 am EST.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

I get stuff from E bay when you can't purchase from the manufacturer. Example was I needed a new PC board for a smoke unit, looked and there was a whole un used one that I got for a good price. When the manufacturer says that it is unavailable, what else can you do? I also look and see if anything floats my boat at good prices then I spring for something.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

You can filter ebay search results for 'Auctions only'

Sometimes sellers will have a 'make offer' button on their listing. Try using it.

You can also sort auction results by 'price + shipping' lowest first.
Another filter is to click on sold listings to see what people are actually paying.

These days, if you have a small business and you are not also selling on the internet your days in business are numbered.

Don't make it personal. If you think the price is high shop elsewhere. If you can make an offer do so. Maybe you'll get lucky.

One other thing is you can save a search by item and price and have ebay notify you when one comes up. I bought a few adds to my collection that way.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I've always figured out what I want to pay for a certain item. I then deduct the cost of shipping and that's what I bid for my one and only max bid. If I get outbid then I move on. By waiting I've gotten some great deals way under what I'm will to pay. I've been doing that on ebay for many years.

Lately I've been watching HO 4-6-2s. I find it absolutely amazing how many people are bidding on things. People talk about model trains being a dying hobby have obviously never been on ebay. I also wonder too how many people end up buying their own stuff through another account trying to drive the price up.


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