# Grandpa's Basement



## Bloodhound

Hello everyone. I am a newbie so I apologize in advance if I sound completely ignorant and wrong on all levels! LOL

My Father in law decided to sell his house so the wife and I cleaned out the basement. He told me there was a "box of old trains" that he wanted to give my 11 year old son. We eventually found the box and my wife has asked me to restore the trains as family heirlooms.

The "set" essentially consisted of some very rusty track, an old ZW transformer, 2 Marx transformers, 2 engines and a few cars in very poor condition...

I have a Lionel O scale winter wonderland train we break out at Christmas time so I decided to test the engines on the live track. Here's the ZW transformer....power cord cut off, extensive internal corrosion, missing light cover and decal etc....




































































































As for the engines, the first has got to date back to the 40's or early fifties? I'm unsure of the make and model. I've had it apart, cleaned all contacts etc. Runs great but is a bit noisy. I wasn't sure how or where to lubricate the motor so I left it as is for the time being...





































Next up is a Vintage Lionel New York Central GM 2344 Powered Diesel? I replaced a burned out bulb for the light and found one disconnected wire inside. Looks very clean. A split second or two test on the track and itonly humms.





































Is there a process or somewhere I can download some basic maintenance and lubricating instructions as I attempt to bring these back?


----------



## NorCalTransplant

The site that had all the info you need is down. But you can buy this

Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual

I have one. Its awesome... 

I think that ZW transformer is shot, all that rust in the coil unit... 

I bet both those engines can be worked on though. I dont know what the steamer is, sorry.


----------



## NorCalTransplant

In the meantime though you can search these forums, there are a lot of people that know what they are doing here.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, I think the ZW could easily be rescued. The rust on the iron coil is simply cosmetic, you can probably scrub that away and and clean up the other parts. Those things are practically bulletproof, I got one running that looked almost like that, it cleaned up fine.


----------



## santafe158

Just shows the signs of being left in a damp basement. As John said, it should all be surface rust.

The steamer is a Marx 999. The diesel should also be repairable. It's hard to find one of those that isn't fixable


----------



## NorCalTransplant

Right on, I just imagined that rust being on the inside of the "fins" as well. I just bought some new rollers for mine. You just crunch off the old ones correct?


----------



## Handyandy

Judging by the rivet strips on the pilot and the style of wheels it looks like the that Marx 999 is from '48-'49. Got a couple from that era myself. Nice runners. 
Did the E-unit cycle on the diesel? It wasn't stuck in neutral was it? Marx don't have neutral, but Lionel does. I usually run Marx locos and when I break out my Lionel 2020 I think it's broke when it drops into neutral the first time!


----------



## Bloodhound

Thank you for the GREAT advice everyone! I will buy the book straight away! I appreciate your identifying the steamer. .....Thanks to you "Phase 1" of it's restoration is now complete! There just so happened to be an incomplete set on ebay missing the Engine and Marx transformer which were 2 of only 3 pieces I had! I found two small marx transformers in the box of track! Just nailed the set which includes Original box, track, the full set of cars and a few cords and accessories! I'm going to drop off the engines at the local hobby shop for professional service. Once I get the #999 back one of grandpa's two trains will be complete again and ready to roll!!!


----------



## alman

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, I think the ZW could easily be rescued. The rust on the iron coil is simply cosmetic, you can probably scrub that away and and clean up the other parts. Those things are practically bulletproof, I got one running that looked almost like that, it cleaned up fine.




I agree.

I have seen transformers that looked a lot worse than that, and are fully operational.

A little elbow grease is usually all that is required.

Don't give up the ghost !

All that equipment can (and should) be restored ! :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Big Ed

Welcome to the site.

Have you seen this site? A ton of info to help you there.

http://www.thortrains.net/

In there is this page, http://www.thortrains.net/manualx.htm 
it should show lubes points, a lot here use 20/50 motor oil and no heavy grease. A lot of old Lionel type grease will harden up over time, oil doesn't.

I don't know if they have Marx on that site.

There is a ton of help look in the O forum here on our site , there are sticky threads there.
Edit, in here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5946

But ask here if you need too. Some one will try to help ya out.

Edit,
There is a Marx page there to,
http://www.thortrains.net/marstart.html


----------



## tjcruiser

'Hound,

That Marx set (cars, track, switch) is in excellent shape .. especially with the original box. The box adds greatly to value. Hopefully, the 999 loco willl come out of the service shop OK. When you get it back, rub a little Pledge into the shell ... it'll brighten up nicely.

Couple of sites with Marx info, FYI ...

http://marxtinplatetrains.com/index.html

Good 999 info here ... http://marxtinplatetrains.com/marx_guide_locos.htm

http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin.htm

http://reviews.ebay.com/999-Marx-First-Steam-Die-Cast-Locomotive?ugid=10000000003934061

Regards,

TJ


----------



## Bloodhound

Handyandy said:


> Judging by the rivet strips on the pilot and the style of wheels it looks like the that Marx 999 is from '48-'49. Got a couple from that era myself. Nice runners.
> Did the E-unit cycle on the diesel? It wasn't stuck in neutral was it? Marx don't have neutral, but Lionel does. I usually run Marx locos and when I break out my Lionel 2020 I think it's broke when it drops into neutral the first time!


Had to drop it off for the full service. I popped the cover and there were 2 disconnected wires (my soldering skills are novice at best) and the lever that sticks out the bottom fell into the cover. I couldn't see a mounting screw or slide mount so I think its best an expert look it over until I learn more about these old timers.


----------



## Bloodhound

alman said:


> I agree.
> 
> I have seen transformers that looked a lot worse than that, and are fully operational.
> 
> A little elbow grease is usually all that is required.
> 
> Don't give up the ghost !
> 
> All that equipment can (and should) be restored ! :smilie_daumenpos:


I'm going to take your advice and send it out for repair and testing. I'd like to get the marx transformer restored as well.


----------



## Bloodhound

big ed said:


> Welcome to the site.
> 
> Have you seen this site? A ton of info to help you there.
> 
> http://www.thortrains.net/
> 
> In there is this page, http://www.thortrains.net/manualx.htm
> it should show lubes points, a lot here use 20/50 motor oil and no heavy grease. A lot of old Lionel type grease will harden up over time, oil doesn't.
> 
> I don't know if they have Marx on that site.
> 
> There is a ton of help look in the O forum, there are sticky threads there.
> Edit, in here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5946
> 
> But ask here if you need too. Some one will try to help ya out.
> 
> Edit,
> There is a Marx page there to,
> http://www.thortrains.net/marstart.html


Thanks, I'll get reading!


----------



## Bloodhound

tjcruiser said:


> 'Hound,
> 
> That Marx set (cars, track, switch) is in excellent shape .. especially with the original box. The box adds greatly to value. Hopefully, the 999 loco willl come out of the service shop OK. When you get it back, rub a little Pledge into the shell ... it'll brighten up nicely.
> 
> Couple of sites with Marx info, FYI ...
> 
> http://marxtinplatetrains.com/index.html
> 
> Good 999 info here ... http://marxtinplatetrains.com/marx_guide_locos.htm
> 
> http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin.htm
> 
> http://reviews.ebay.com/999-Marx-First-Steam-Die-Cast-Locomotive?ugid=10000000003934061
> 
> Regards,
> 
> TJ


Thanks TJ I'll check them out!


----------



## Bloodhound

I started researching the diesel and thanks to a member here he's advised me that it is a Lionel 2344 AA NYC 1950 SET #2185W LN . From what I've gathered we have the powered "A" unit and non powered B unit.



















We also have the NYC 6457 Caboose, 6462,6456 and we're missing the non powered A unit, 3464 box car and 6555 Sunoco car. If anyone has any of these cars their willing to part with please let me know.


----------



## BigAl56

If you are uncomfortable working on those old transformers consider selling it on ebay and purchasing one in nicer condition. Old worn out transformers in need of repair seem to go for good $$ and you can get a nice, (read: safe), rebuilt one for just a bit more.


----------



## Big Ed

Those NYC ABA units bring a in good buck for ones in nice shape.

But I thought the A units were both powered?
Just the B unit was not powered.


----------



## BigAl56

The B unit was not powered.


----------



## Big Ed

areizman said:


> The B unit was not powered.


Both the A units were powered then, that is what I thought.
I know the B unit was non powered.
He stated he was looking for the NON powered A unit that he didn't have.


----------



## Bloodhound

I may be wrong on what I'm calling it Ed. I'm new to the hobby and have allot to learn. here's the "NON-POWERED" Dummy engine... I was thinking of purchasing this one but no idea if I can replace the headlight lens or not...


----------



## santafe158

The postwar F3's came in a Powered/Dummy AA set. The nonpowered B unit was a separate item (If I'm remembering that right)


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The headlight lens should be easily replaceable.


----------



## BigAl56

The B unit appears to have been offered around 1951-55. This would have been an early 50's AA pair, top of the line back then, with the matching B unit purchased as an add-on. Only one A unit had motors. The B and other A were dummies. Lionel later moved the horn into the dummy A to save space. Depending on where the horn is located that would determine the exact time period these were produced.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks for pointing that out. So the non-powered engine is also an "A". Learning everyday on this wonderfull forum!:laugh:

We made our first purchase today in our quest to reassemble the Lionel 2344 AA NYC Set. After researching the forum I saw that the X3464 boxcar we need requires a Remote Control Track Section. Having picked up very quickly from your comments that condition, OB and original instructions add to the value I bought this as it appears to meet the criteria for a "good investment"......I just hope we bought the right one!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bloodhound

I think it's 100% cetain that we've been "bitten" by the model train bug! LOL As we wait for several orders of parts to arrive we've been following everyone's instructions here on the forum and we're spending most of our time cleaning old track, lubricating car wheels and pivots. We're also SLOWLY restoring the 022 switches we found in the box. 

I bought a Lionel Winter Wonderland train around 2002 that we've been working the daylights out of here recently! 










Being our only running engine we've been trying different 027 track designs and layouts and experimenting. 

We bought our first NIB car off craigslist today as well! Been running it for the last 2 hours like giddy school girls! LOL Got a laughing "L for love" from the wife too! We're having entirely too much fun here...


----------



## servoguy

I agree on restoring the ZW. If you want to throw it away, I will send you my mailing address and I will pay the shipping if you want to throw it my way. Clean up the sides of the transformer where the rollers run using a ScotchBrite pad or a wire wheel on a Dremel tool. I recommend the ScotchBrite pad as it doesn't shed little wires. Clean up the sockets for the light bulbs, and replace the rollers and lube everything with a little 5W-20/30 motor oil and you should be good to go for the next 50 years. You can lube the rollers and they may last a lot longer. Don't know about how long they might last as my KWs and ZW are in the closet right now. Oil will not cause the electrical stuff to malfunction. I even oil the commutators on my locos.


----------



## Big Ed

Blood hound,
The A Unit is the one with a windshield, OK one came powered and the other a unit was non powered.
The B unit is the one without the windshield.

Some other AA units, both came with motors in them.
And I think some B units came with motors? 
Anyone know if some B units came with a motor?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

servoguy said:


> I agree on restoring the ZW. If you want to throw it away, I will send you my mailing address and I will pay the shipping if you want to throw it my way.


Nix on that Bruce, I saw it first!


----------



## servoguy

John, as long as we are both telling guys that stuff like this can be restored and used, we are probably not going to have much thrown our direction.
Maybe we should change our advice?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Good thinking Bruce, I'll have to mend my ways.


----------



## Big Ed

I offered him $10 bucks for it...I got you both beat.


----------



## Bloodhound

I shipped it to Dale @ http://lioneltransformer.com/home

Getting the full service and will have back by January 15th... Thanks though.


----------



## Kwikster

santafe158 said:


> The postwar F3's came in a Powered/Dummy AA set. The nonpowered B unit was a separate item (If I'm remembering that right)


There a few offering of A+B setups during a run from 1955 to 1957 only. Outside of that, you are correct that the "B" unit was a separate item which had a "C" suffix, example 2343C.

Carl


----------



## servoguy

If this is an original AB unit, then it is likely that the A unit has a single motor.


----------



## Bloodhound

big ed said:


> Blood hound,
> The A Unit is the one with a windshield, OK one came powered and the other a unit was non powered.
> The B unit is the one without the windshield.
> 
> Some other AA units, both came with motors in them.
> And I think some B units came with motors?
> Anyone know if some B units came with a motor?


Thanks Ed. So there is no "C" unit then. When I popped the cover off the engine the horn was there but I don't recall if there were one or two motors. Should have taken a picture!

On a good note though the sunoco car we bought for the set showed up today along with the rewired contollers for the 022 switches!:thumbsup: I can't beleive how heavy this car is. They sure knew how to build em in those days.


----------



## Bloodhound

Ok. We've GOT to be doing something wrong here. Got the 2344 and Marx 999 back from the shop today and we're having several issues. We're running a relatively "new" very simple 027 circular track. The "new" engine that came with this transformer runs fine on it but both of the vintage engines seem to cut out if I turn the dial on the transformer up to much. They'll crawl and as soon as I go to give them some more juice the transformer shuts off for a split second and then comes back on. It will keep cutting out until I turn the dial WAYYYY down. The transformer is a flimsy plastic chinese made #48051.










The second problem we're having is with the Marx 999. It isn't getting good traction on the track and the wheels will spin as soon as we add a few cars. Can we add something to the wheels for better traction? Track is clean and brand new and there's nothing obstructing the wheels or any adjustment there that i can see.


----------



## servoguy

It sounds like your transformer is too wimpy for the 2344. You need at least a 90 watt transformer for that engine. It sounds like the 999 needs its wheels cleaned. It is not a great puller due to its light weight.


----------



## Bloodhound

Its a 77 watt transformer by the looks of it. Still, to do the same thing with the little marx 999? 

Also, I noticed that if I push the horn button with the 2344 runing at a crawl the 2344 immediately cuts out and if I push the horn button with the 999 running at a crawl it takes off like a rocket and flies right off the track???

I'll try cleaning the wheels as it seems like the little 999 was "overoiled" now that you mention it.


----------



## servoguy

It sounds like the service may have made a few mistakes. To lube the motor on the 2344, you need to disassemble the motors and gearboxes. If the lube was done correctly, you should be able to turn the powered wheels with your thumb. If you can't the loco probably wasn't lubed correctly and the friction is therefore too high. I think the 2344 should run on a 77 watt transformer. If you lube the locos, use only 5W-0/30 motor oil as it will not dry out and get gummy or hard. I have used it for 50 years without a problem. 

Lionel Lube, 3 in 1 oil, most greases are not good. The benefit to me of buying a loco that has been lubed with grease is that the grease is hard and the loco won't run so the price is lower. I bought a 2333 a while back that had the gearboxes full of grease that had turned to concrete. Dug out the dried grease and used 5W-20 and it runs very well.

I even use 5W-20 to oil the commutator, but you must clean the dirt out of the commutator slots and off of the brush holder if you do this.


----------



## santafe158

Bloodhound said:


> Its a 77 watt transformer by the looks of it. Still, to do the same thing with the little marx 999?



It appears to be the same as my early transformer which is a Lionel 40 watt unit. Definitely not enough for the older equipment. I'd look into a newer CW-80 (80 watt by Lionel) or something in that size range at the minimum for the F3.


----------



## servoguy

My personal favorite for post war stuff is a KW. 190 watts, two controllers, two whistle controllers, 20 volt fixed tap for powering 022 switches and they are relatively inexpensive. Replace the power cord and the rollers, lube the whistle controller, and you should be good to go for 50 years. No controller for the bell, but that can be remedied in a couple of ways. IMHO, the CW-80 is a little wimpy if you are going to get somewhat serious about this hobby. Another good option is a brace of 1033s. 90 watts each, whistle control.


----------



## Bloodhound

Been busy trying to absorb as much info from the forum as possible. I built our first train table this past weekend! I followed the instructions from a Lionel youtube video and here she is at a cost of $108.00. Not a bad fit in our finished basement rec-room............

4x8 with foam board. Painted with paint from an unused can that was a mismatch from a previous project. I figured it was best to get something on it paint wise as the insulation board had a shiny reflective paper covering. 














































I also decided to try and scratch build a tunnel with the kids over the weekend. I'm sure there's much better ways but using stuff from around the house at a cost of $0.00 seemed appealing enough! LOL


----------



## Bloodhound

As of right now were dealing with what seem like monumental problems for us newbies. We want to use the O scale switches with 027 track and have to figure that out. We're laying out track trying to decide on our first layout and already our first loop is comin out wrong. Don't seem to have a long enough peice of track to "close the gap". Last but not least we noticed the track pins don't go in the same direction with our little mini-loop.




























Still, we were so excited to finish the table that we did a little video for my car club I'd like to share. Seeing our Marx 1099 running even with the underpowered transformer was enough to keep us more than motivated. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SmGgAl8Uz1s


----------



## tjcruiser

Lucky dad. Happy kid.

Or, maybe ...

Happy dad. Lucky kid.

Either way, looks like you're both having a blast. A fun start, I'm sure.

You can pull the pins from tubular track (with care) and put them on the other side.

Attached O to O27 can be done, but it takes some fiddling. You'll have to raise the O27 track up a bit (with shims underneath) so the the top-of-rail height is the same as the O. I think (but am not sure) that the pin diameters are a bit different, too, so you may have to improvise there a bit.

You can set up that siding as a "block" with power fed through a toggle switch. That way, you can have a loco parked there, while another is running the loop.

Enjoy the ride!

TJ


----------



## erkenbrand

Yup, the O and O27 pins are different diameters with the O being a bit bigger. If you work it you can get them to mate with the O27. It just takes some fiddling.


----------



## erkenbrand

To fill that gap you'll need to modify a piece of track. You can use a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to shorten a piece to the correct length. Depending on where your cut ends up, you'll want to move the ties as well. Then, clean up the cut and insert your pins as needed.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Some track pliers are handy for working with tubular track as well.


----------



## Handyandy

Nothing more fun than a bare nekked train table! LOL

I see you keep your treadmill tucked safely away in a corner behind your train table too!


----------



## Bloodhound

tjcruiser said:


> Lucky dad. Happy kid.
> 
> Or, maybe ...
> 
> Happy dad. Lucky kid.
> 
> Either way, looks like you're both having a blast. A fun start, I'm sure.
> 
> You can pull the pins from tubular track (with care) and put them on the other side.
> 
> Attached O to O27 can be done, but it takes some fiddling. You'll have to raise the O27 track up a bit (with shims underneath) so the the top-of-rail height is the same as the O. I think (but am not sure) that the pin diameters are a bit different, too, so you may have to improvise there a bit.
> 
> You can set up that siding as a "block" with power fed through a toggle switch. That way, you can have a loco parked there, while another is running the loop.
> 
> Enjoy the ride!
> 
> TJ


Got that right TJ! What do you recommend for shims? Wooden shims like the type for shoring up a door or cork etc?


----------



## Bloodhound

erkenbrand said:


> Yup, the O and O27 pins are different diameters with the O being a bit bigger. If you work it you can get them to mate with the O27. It just takes some fiddling.


Gotcha. I'll go slow with it.


----------



## Bloodhound

erkenbrand said:


> To fill that gap you'll need to modify a piece of track. You can use a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to shorten a piece to the correct length. Depending on where your cut ends up, you'll want to move the ties as well. Then, clean up the cut and insert your pins as needed.


OK. If that's all it is should be a quick fix. Thanks allot!


----------



## Bloodhound

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Some track pliers are handy for working with tubular track as well.


Just called the local hobby shop and they don't carry them. I have some track that's bent and they would sure come in handy. Any idea where to buy online at a reasonable price?


----------



## Bloodhound

Handyandy said:


> Nothing more fun than a bare nekked train table! LOL
> 
> I see you keep your treadmill tucked safely away in a corner behind your train table too!


Not for long! The wife is already after me to make room. She uses it...not me! LOL


----------



## Bloodhound

I'll tell you guys we've made several mistakes but we're learning as we go. I had to order new 022 switch lanterns for the second time from Lionel because I broke the little tabs off putting them in. Must be pushing them too far down or maybe I should install with the 022 cover off?


----------



## Handyandy

Bloodhound said:


> Not for long! The wife is already after me to make room. She uses it...not me! LOL


OK. My wife is making me get it out and use it! LOL


----------



## tjcruiser

Bloodhound said:


> Got that right TJ! What do you recommend for shims? Wooden shims like the type for shoring up a door or cork etc?


Anything that allows you to induce a slight rise along the O27 across a few sets of track ties. Coulc be as simple as stacked bits of cardstock. Anything, really, as long as it leave the track top kink-free and stable.

Are you planning on screwing down the track once you've fiddled with the layout plan? I'd recommend that, for sure. Either long screws through foam into your base wood, or perhaps dabs of latex caulk under the ties to stick them down rigidly. The caulk can be pulled up for mods later.

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I looked around, usually there are track pliers on eBay, but currently no listings. I know that the pairs I got were from Olsen's Trains, but their old website died in Hurricane Sandy, and the new one isn't very useful.

Send me a PM and I'll sell you a set of O27 track pliers, I have two sets and I rarely see O27 track anymore.


----------



## Bloodhound

Handyandy said:


> OK. My wife is making me get it out and use it! LOL


I'm not far behind you! :laugh:


----------



## Bloodhound

tjcruiser said:


> Anything that allows you to induce a slight rise along the O27 across a few sets of track ties. Coulc be as simple as stacked bits of cardstock. Anything, really, as long as it leave the track top kink-free and stable.
> 
> Are you planning on screwing down the track once you've fiddled with the layout plan? I'd recommend that, for sure. Either long screws through foam into your base wood, or perhaps dabs of latex caulk under the ties to stick them down rigidly. The caulk can be pulled up for mods later.
> 
> TJ


10-4 TJ.

If you notice in my video all the figure 8 curves were curling up. I'd prefer screws as the foam board is 1" thick. What should I buy as far as the screws go?


----------



## Bloodhound

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I looked around, usually there are track pliers on eBay, but currently no listings. I know that the pairs I got were from Olsen's Trains, but their old website died in Hurricane Sandy, and the new one isn't very useful.
> 
> Send me a PM and I'll sell you a set of O27 track pliers, I have two sets and I rarely see O27 track anymore.


PM sent John.


----------



## Big Ed

You can try to make up some pins if you want, the traintender has them for connecting O to O/27 track/switches.
http://www.ttender.com/partslist.html


I just got me some,


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks Big Ed. I've decided to hold off on connecting the different tracks. I'm going to go with a figure 8 with O track in the center of the table and a simple oval in 027 around the outer edge. It dawned on me that I had purchased an O gauge remote control track so best for us to keep things simple. I'm about ready to pull my hair out anyway as our hobby shop has no O gauge curves for our figure 8. Lesser of two evils for us at this point. I'll post some pictures of the layout soon as I'll need help with it I'm sure. LOL


----------



## ColtsKurt

Bloodhound said:


> I'm about ready to pull my hair out anyway as our hobby shop has no O gauge curves for our figure 8.


How many you need, and are you willing to clean them up?
I bought a box of O at the show last year and have since decided I'll not need them. Kinda rusty.


----------



## Bloodhound

ColtsKurt said:


> How many you need, and are you willing to clean them up?
> I bought a box of O at the show last year and have since decided I'll not need them. Kinda rusty.


I'm guessing at least 10. Be glad to clean them up.


----------



## mtoney

Take the used track, its easy to clean up while sitting watching the ball game or anything else on TV. All my track is second hand O gauge. You will love that 2344 once you get the ZW back. The sight, smells and sound are priceless when running postwar F units. Even with being serviced, if they didnt run it much, it will take a bit to limber the unit up completely. Oils have to work their way into the axle bushings but after a few laps she should wake right up. When you clean track, no, repeat NO using steel wool. The 2344 has magnetic traction and will pickup the leftover fibers and will cause you all kinds of grief. You should use a brillo pad or you can get a track cleaning block from one of your local hobby shops like Niagra hobby and craft mart. My wife and I used to live in Erie and made trips to thier a few times a year. There is also a really good train show in early March at Rainbow Gardens in Erie, excellent show for buying Lionel stuff. Great work so far! Another excellent older engine if you want a steamer is a 675/2025 with the nickel rim drivers. They run excellent, take very little power to run and are very heavy. Or you can find a set of 2343's, which are the Santa Fe warbonet red/silver brothers of your NYC F3's You will find the old stuff is built to last, able to be easily fixed and run forever. Newer stuff is more pot luck these days it seems. Cant wait to see more progress. Mike and Michele T


----------



## servoguy

I suggest you use a wire wheel or a ScotchBrite pad to clean your track. No steel wool or sandpaper.


----------



## Bloodhound

mtoney said:


> Take the used track, its easy to clean up while sitting watching the ball game or anything else on TV. All my track is second hand O gauge. You will love that 2344 once you get the ZW back. The sight, smells and sound are priceless when running postwar F units. Even with being serviced, if they didnt run it much, it will take a bit to limber the unit up completely. Oils have to work their way into the axle bushings but after a few laps she should wake right up. When you clean track, no, repeat NO using steel wool. The 2344 has magnetic traction and will pickup the leftover fibers and will cause you all kinds of grief. You should use a brillo pad or you can get a track cleaning block from one of your local hobby shops like Niagra hobby and craft mart. My wife and I used to live in Erie and made trips to thier a few times a year. There is also a really good train show in early March at Rainbow Gardens in Erie, excellent show for buying Lionel stuff. Great work so far! Another excellent older engine if you want a steamer is a 675/2025 with the nickel rim drivers. They run excellent, take very little power to run and are very heavy. Or you can find a set of 2343's, which are the Santa Fe warbonet red/silver brothers of your NYC F3's You will find the old stuff is built to last, able to be easily fixed and run forever. Newer stuff is more pot luck these days it seems. Cant wait to see more progress. Mike and Michele T


Thanks a million for the advice. I screwed up with sand paper once already and the guys let me know right away. Been using the scotchbright pads so I'll stick with that until I figure out what kind of wire wheel is safe. I polish stainless all the time for my classic car and could easily put a wheel to one of my grinders if I knew what to get! LOL 

You read my mind on the Sante Fe set. My cousin had a set when I was a kid that was stolen in a break in. He never got over it and he's since passed on. That will be the icing on the cake once we get some experience and know-how under our belts.

I'm chompin at the bit to get the ZW back as well. We can't do jack until we get some O curves and 2 more 022 switches. Niagara Hobby is hurtin these days. I've been there several times and the shelves are bare. Just got back from another trip there tonight and only got some O staights and a 90 cross. No curves in sight. They have no idea when or if they'll be restocking. I refuse to buy easy track as I want a layout that just screams vintage 50's post war appeal if you know what I mean! :laugh:


----------



## erkenbrand

If you're willing to make the drive up to East Rochester the guys in Despatch Junction have one heck of a model train store. And they always have bundles of used O and O27 track for sale. I know they currently have a bunch for like $2 / bundle that's in rougher shape.

It's also a great place to hang out in and check out the inventory for an hour or two.


----------



## Bloodhound

What I need are O gaige curves with the same turning radius as what's on the 022 switches. Problem is I don't know what they are called.


----------



## servoguy

O-31 tubular track is the same radius as 022 switches.


----------



## Bloodhound

I took a long shot today and took a quick 35min drive out to Aurora rails and was in Model Train heaven! Room after room of stuff. I bought the few pieces of used O curves they had, 2 manual 042 switches in need of repair and a used LW transformer.....





































Turns out whatever O gauge curves these are are not good. Need a tighter turning radius. Can someone tell me what curves these are so I DONT buy the same ones? Not too upset as I paid very little for them but want to get it right. 










The day wasn't a total loss though as the transformer turned out to be a great investment! I'll post a video in a few minutes and you'll see why...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, since I'm going the other way, I'll trade you for the O31 curves you need 1:1 for those.


----------



## ColtsKurt

Bloodhound said:


> What I need are O gaige curves with the same turning radius as what's on the 022 switches. Problem is I don't know what they are called.


Sooo my rusty ones aren't needed?


----------



## Bloodhound

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, since I'm going the other way, I'll trade you for the O31 curves you need 1:1 for those.


What curves do I have?


----------



## Bloodhound

ColtsKurt said:


> Sooo my rusty ones aren't needed?


I'll let you know as soon as I figure it out myself and thank-you for the offer of help.


----------



## Bloodhound

Some progress: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuzw00CKshE&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Big Ed

What my Father always yelled at me, "SLOW THAT DAM THING DOWN"!
He said more but I can't type that.

Stay with the throttle, work it, it would be a shame to see it take a dive to the floor.

You let it sit there with the power on to warm it up?
I never tried that.
If something was electrically wrong I would have worried about burning it up as it was warming up.

Looks like it runs like a rocket.:thumbsup:

What is the 3 in one oil for?


----------



## Big Ed

Your curves looks to be o/54?
I could be wrong, this chart is missing O/42, it could be O/42 but I am guessing O/54. O/27 is the smaller track.

I don't know how many you bought but if you can put them in a complete oval you can measure the oval to get the curve size.

Example, O/54 would measure 54" circle, O/72 is 72", and so on.
Even if you only have 10 curves you can go around with a piece to complete the circle and then measure.

I thought the O/54 had 5 ties though, the O/72 has 6 ties, and I think all the other curves has 3 ties. 
Yours might be O/42 then?

Anyone know if there is an O/48 tube track?


----------



## Dave Sams

I love hearing the excitement in your voice as the engine comes to life! 

I agree with Big Ed. "Warming up" could be a bad idea if the e unit is in forward or reverse. You could melt the motor.

To me, the engine sounds like dry gears rubbing together. I don't have that engine and don't run on insulation. Perhaps someone else can chime in.

FWIW, I have some 072 curves. Enough to make a circle. I thought I was getting 054 so don't feel too bad. I was able to tighten up the curve to mate up with the 054 I had. It doesn't show, and I am the only one to know what I did.


----------



## Big Ed

He did say it was serviced by someone I think. I would guess that they oiled & greased it up?

Yes, I never heard of letting it sit there to warm up.
If that was me instead of pushing the reverse button, I would have been there with my hand giving it a gentle push.

I wonder why it moved after a while? I didn't hear any cussing.

Clean the rollers pickups, wheels & track. It helps.


----------



## Dave Sams

It sounds to me like the e unit needs a little cleaning. If he is lucky, cycling the e unit a bunch of times will work, or, contact (Radio Shack tuner cleaner) cleaner on the drum will help. If not, careful cleaning with an eraser will be required.

A few of my locos do "warm up". But this is a case where I have the maximum number of cars behind them. As the lube warms up, I get more power. My track is in the basement. Not too cold, but enough to notice.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Bloodhound said:


> What curves do I have?


Stick a half circle together and measure the diameter, then you'll know exactly what you have. The look to be O42 as I believe O54 and O72 have more ties.


----------



## Bloodhound

Gotcha. I'll work the throttle and be mindfull of speed. It sounds dry to me too. I have a suspicion the the "Full Service" did not address cleaning or lubricating a thing.

As for the 3 in one I use that on the car axles where needed. Tried making the figure 8 with the curves I have and the curve goes right off the table and won't close at the ends.

My drawing skills are bad but here's a quick diagram of what we're after....










The idea is a long loop around the outside of the table with 027 track and an inner figure 8 with two parking lanes with O using a 90 degree cross. My son saw it in this youtube video and loved it so this is what I want to replicate on an all flat surface without the tunnell in the video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9edXg5u2KU&playnext=1&list=PL743598B68295C96F


----------



## Big Ed

Does your manual switch you have in the picture say O/31 on it?

It looks just like this O/42 manual switch I found. 

I took a few pictures, the smaller 5 tie is an O/54 curve, the longer larger curve is O/72.

I put the smaller O/27 track on top of the O/42 switch and the curve looked about the same?

I didn't want to confuse anyone so I left that picture out. I guess looks can be deceiving. I thought I had an O/31 switch but can't find it and I got a project going on and don't want to start looking through all my track supply boxes right now. My dungeon is messy enough now.

O/54 on top of O/42 switch, Edit (notice 5 ties.)










O/72 on top of O/42 switch, Edit, (notice 6 ties.) edit again (notice the length is longer )










0/54 Sitting on top of an O/72 on the O/42 switch. A piece of the smaller tube rail O/27 sitting off to the side.









The best way to see what you got is to make a circle and measure it. Even a half circle will do. Don't get rid of them, as one day you might want to expand and they might get put to use. Unless you want to trade.


----------



## Bloodhound

WOW! Thanks for the pictures Big Ed. yes my manuals are 042 and unfortunately they are both the same and opposite of what you have there. I need at least 2 of the 042's like the one you have there. As for the curves the smaller 027 looks like the same diameter as the curve on my 022 and 042 switches. That's what I need only in O scale.

I'll lay out what I have and try measuring it as you've described and take some pictures. I assume the actual length of the curve itself will give me the diameter?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, the diameter is most easily determined by just plugging together a half circle and measuring it.


----------



## Big Ed

I guess you should look for O/42 curves.

An O/72 circle is 16 pieces and would measure 72" across.
An O/54 is 54" across.
An O/42 is 42" across.


O/27 (the smaller tube track) would measure 27" circle.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A comparison of the profile of O gauge and O27 gauge track.


----------



## Bloodhound

This is where we are at. Just laid out rough but you'll see the many issues with regard to the lengths of the straight sections and where we wind up with the curves we have. I think the bottom line is we need to invest in various curved track sections of varying degrees and learn what we have etc. etc. I noticed some of the curves are K-line made in china and Lionel made in china. I plan on taking the outer 027 line a bit closer to the edge of the table but no matter what I think I'll be making some custom lengths before its all said and done.


----------



## Bloodhound

8 peices make a half circle measuring roughly 54 to 56" from outer rail to outer rail given the small bit of "play" in the half circle.

Safe to say these are 54's ?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Those must be non-Lionel track, as the only 54" full O-gauge Lionel track I'm aware of has more ties.

As far as the mis-matched straight sections, a hacksaw or Dremel tool makes them any length you want, one of the joys of working with tubular track.


----------



## Bloodhound

Some say K-line made in china and some say lionel made in china. Food for thought.

I'd like to invest in 2 full circles of Full O-gauge in each of the following diameters...

27
31
36
42

Anybody? Anybody? LOL


----------



## Big Ed

Bloodhound said:


> Some say K-line made in china and some say lionel made in china. Food for thought.
> 
> I'd like to invest in 2 full circles of Full O-gauge in each of the following diameters...
> 
> 27
> 31
> 36
> 42
> 
> Anybody? Anybody? LOL



Well you know that the O/27 is the smaller in height tube track?

I think, I am not sure, that O/36 doesn't come in the tube track. Just fast track.

O/31 & O/42 comes in the higher height O track.

See Johns picture of the track sizes.

I guess what you have is O/54 K-line made them, I thought Lionel only made the O/54 5 tie track.

Do you mean it is marked K-line/Lionel?
Or are some K-line and some Lionel?

Just build your table a little bigger add onto the sides and run all O/72 you will be happy you did as you don't have to worry about the larger trains then.
Well most of the larger trains that is.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks Ed. Some are K-line and some are K-line Lionel all made in China. I'm going to hold off on the bigger table and invest in O/31 & O/42 for now. I run the webpage for a local machine shop so I'll measure my straights and take them up there for the cuts this week. Is there a "Wanted" section on the board?

As always I appreciate you guys helping us past this hurtle.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You can get O42 in the lower profile O27 track as well.


----------



## servoguy

Keep in mind that an O-31 manual switch is a model 042, not O42 or O-42 or O/42. This creates some confusion. You can get O-27 switches with 42" diameter curves. You can get O-31 switches with 31" diameter, 72" diameter, and several other diameters. Ditto FasTrack.


----------



## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> Keep in mind that an O-31 manual switch is a model 042, not O42 or O-42 or O/42. This creates some confusion. You can get O-27 switches with 42" diameter curves. You can get O-31 switches with 31" diameter, 72" diameter, and several other diameters. Ditto FasTrack.


I thought you told me that O/31 switch is labeled O/22?

So the manual switch that I show is O/31 curve but they label it O/42?


----------



## servoguy

A O-31 automatic switch is a model 022. A manual switch is 042. The 22 & 42 have nothing to do with the diameter of the track. Both are compatible with O-31 track and have a circle diameter of 31 inches. To add to the confusion, a model 711 switch is a O-72 switch and has a circle diameter of 72 inches and is compatible with O-31 track.


----------



## Big Ed

The model 711 is an old O/72 switch, they do have newer models numbers.

Why the heck did they have to make them so confusing!?

Then what is the curve radius of the manual I showed?
If you put an O/27 curve on it it almost looks identical. That is why I just put it on the side in my pictures.
If you lay the O/27 track curve on top of that switch it looks like the same curve radius just a different sized (height) rail.


----------



## servoguy

If Lionel didn't make it confusing, there would be no need for these forums.


----------



## Bloodhound

My head hurts. Never fear Chaos is here! LOL

Is this any good to me? Looks like O gauge to me?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-10-P...830524?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c2dffe9bc


----------



## servoguy

It looks like prewar American Flyer to me. $20 for 10 pieces is about $17.50 too much. The stuff is in poor condition.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks. I'll steer clear of them. I'm hoping GunnrunnerJohn can come through for me on some curves.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Gotcha covered, I sent you a PM. 

That track on eBay is absurd, I sold nice O27 track for a lot less than that, and it was ready to use!


----------



## Bloodhound

Sure am glad I joined this forum.


----------



## Big Ed

Bloodhound said:


> My head hurts. Never fear Chaos is here! LOL
> 
> Is this any good to me? Looks like O gauge to me?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-10-PIECES-OF-VINTAGE-LIONEL-027-GAUGE-CURVED-TRACK-/121030830524?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c2dffe9bc



That is listed as O/27, you want O right?

Did you read the differences and look at the pictures of the difference between O and O/27?

You better go back through this thread and read it again.

Tomorrow, I will have a short quiz here for you to take.
You better study!
If you fail it, you get no more answers for your questions for a period of one month!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

$2/ea for rusty O27 track! If he sells that, I'm going to go dumpster diving and make a killing on eBay!


----------



## Kwikster

gunrunnerjohn said:


> $2/ea for rusty O27 track! If he sells that, I'm going to go dumpster diving and make a killing on eBay!


Heck ya, I'd do it too  FYI, Brasseurs (traindoctor) sells brand spanking new O-27 straights for 2 bucks each. So ya a tad overpriced.

Carl


----------



## Bloodhound

Bring it Big Ed! I'll be ready! 










My son and I were very dissapointed to find out we won't be getting our ZW back by 1/15 or anytime soon for that matter. Sent the guy and email to inquire as to the status and he said he's been very ill for the last 3 weeks.

Now I don't feel so guilty about buying the LW. I'd like to replace the missing green cap and replace the power cord as it is original. Is this a complex process for a DIY in home repair? I'd also like to pick up a copy of an operating manual if someone knows of a source.


----------



## Bloodhound

What's with the "Anonymous" Pm I just got?










J/K LOL


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I've attached the LW Operating and Service Manuals, enjoy.


----------



## Bloodhound

Awesome John Thank You! Don't suppose you have the 022 switch manual or instructions?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Could be, look below.


----------



## Bloodhound

Just wanted to let those who offered me help with track know that GunrunnerJohn is providing me with the following....24 042's and 24 031 curves in FULL O gauge tubular track, a set of 027 pliers, 2 #260 bumpers and a 45 degree crossover.

I should be good to go by way of O gauge track for our modest layout. As for our ZW still no word. Can we run more than one train with the LW?


----------



## Big Ed

Bloodhound said:


> Just wanted to let those who offered me help with track know that GunrunnerJohn is providing me with the following....24 042's and 24 031 curves in FULL O gauge tubular track, a set of 027 pliers, 2 #260 bumpers and a 45 degree crossover.
> 
> I should be good to go by way of O gauge track for our modest layout. As for our ZW still no word. Can we run more than one train with the LW?



That sounds great.....but......your getting O track and you bought some O/27 pliers?
Why didn't you get some O pliers?

Though they should work just make sure you don't squeeze them too tight on the O track.

For the size of your layout the LW should power 2 trains just fine.


----------



## Bloodhound

My outside loop is 027 and some of the pieces are in need of repair. Unfortunately John didn't have any O pliers so I'm looking elsewhere.

Thanks for the answer on the LW Big Ed!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

They come by periodically on eBay. Olsen's sells them, maybe they have them on their website.


----------



## servoguy

IMHO, track pliers are not the best method for making a good connection between track sections. What I have done for the last several years is to bend the rails where the pins are installed in the track sections. Hold the section with the pins pointing away from you. Bend the left rail to the left and the center rail to the right. When the pins are inserted into the holes of the next section of track, there is pressure on the tip of each pin to make a good connection to the next section. The track sections go together easily, and don't come apart, and you only have to bend the rails once, not every time you put the track together.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I agree that track pliers aren't the answer to every question. However, when the track ends get mal-formed, track pliers are the easiest thing I've found to true them up again. Put a pin in, crimp firmly, and then pull the pin. Nice round hole again.


----------



## Bloodhound

Secured another piece of the puzzle today...LIONEL 0/027 F-3 A UNIT NYC DUMMY ENGINE #2344 to go with our powered A unit. Judging by the amount of wear and tear should match our set nicely!


----------



## sjm9911

Trains look good (wish i had something like those) and the track is coming along nicely.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks.


----------



## Kwikster

Looks like everything is coming along quite nicely. The 2344 shell is missing portholes but not bad otherwise, those are available from a few suppliers.

I too have an LW transformer and quite like it. Replacing the cord is a really simple affair. The green cover is available as well as a separate piece. The entire lever with cover was about 12 bucks at http://www.traindoctor.com

Carl


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks Carl much appreciated.


----------



## Bloodhound

I'd like to replace the power cord on the LW with a cord that I "liberated" from a smores maker deemed to dangerous for the kids! LOL Now, it's a modern cord with a wider side for modern day outlets. Does it matter which side I connect these wires too within the LW or is it fine either way?


----------



## alman

Bloodhound said:


> I'd like to replace the power cord on the LW with a cord that I "liberated" from a smores maker deemed to dangerous for the kids! LOL Now, it's a modern cord with a wider side for modern day outlets. Does it matter which side I connect these wires too within the LW or is it fine either way?



Polarization should be observed.


----------



## Hellgate

I have been told not to use a modern plug. If you need to phase multiple transformers together you may need to turn the plug around.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks. Not the answer I wanted but the one I needed to hear!


----------



## Hellgate

It will be fine on this one though. Only need to flip the plug on one of the transformers.


----------



## BigAl56

I have used polarized plugs on all transformers I have rewired. Besides being safer it helps when you want to properly cross connect and phase transformers. If you have a similar transformer try phasing them and connect the polarized cord to match. If in doubt and you cannot test look carefully at the old cord. One lead should be marked with ribs. That lead should be the neutral connected to the wider plug connection of the outlet.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

If you have a polarized plug where one is not called for, about 30 seconds with a file will make it into a standard non-polarized plug.

As far as it helping you phase the transformers, that assumes you've taken the trouble to wire them all so they're in phase, otherwise it makes it a PITA to properly phase them!


----------



## servoguy

The transformer by itself does not care about the polarity of the input power. However, if you are using two or more transformers, it is convenient to use polarized plugs so you don't have to check the polarity every time you plug the transformers in. (You can also plug them into a power strip and turn them all on and off using the power strip.) Using a polarized plug will not harm the transformer. I buy extension cords from Home Depot which have polarized plugs and just cut off the end opposite the plut. About $1, and no, it doesn't have a big L on it.


----------



## Hellgate

Servoguy, thats a great idea!
Are they black though? I recall white, green, and brown ones, but never black..... why is that??


----------



## Bloodhound

I have no concept as to what it means to phase more than one transformer. I assume this means wiring them together in some way?


----------



## servoguy

if you have 2 KW transformers, and you connect the U terminals of both transformers together, and set the A control of both transformers to 12 volts, and then measure the voltage between the two A terminals, you will either measure 0 volts or 24 volts. If you measure 0, the transformers are in phase. If you measure 24 volts, the transformers are out of phase.


----------



## Bloodhound

Definitely far beyond anything we'd dream up at this stage of the game. Just looking to replace the plug and since it won't effect the LW on it's own thats all the green light I need.

Still no word on the ZW. Starting to fear we may never see it again.  On a good note though I forgot to mention that Grandpa had found another box which we finally finished cleaning out. Not much there with the exception of some beat up 027 track and underneath? Just a SHEET LOAD OF CARS!!!! WOOO HOOO! :thumbsup:

The first set appear to be a better quality set of Marx Cars. Shouldn't take much to clean these up....:thumbsup:























































Next set looks much cheaper. At least two cars are damaged including the coal tender...













































































































Last in the box was a wheel and two clamps? No idea what they are for!


----------



## Bloodhound

What do you guys recommend I use to "polish up" and add a bit of shine to our Engine shells? Cleaned the dummy unit by removing the cover and used a soft sponge and soapy water. Then I realised one of the 2344 front lenses was missing and I almost had a stroke. Fortunately the drain cover was in the bottom of my sink and caight it!!! Never make that mistake again. Still, it cleaned the dirt and grime off but made the shell look even more dried out and whited....


----------



## Big Ed

A mild furniture polish with a soft rag will shine it up.
I have used pledge with lemon scent.:thumbsup:
That is what we had at the time.

Be real gentle around the lettering,


----------



## T-Man

You have set of drive wheels and an axle for a Marx Engine. The other piece reminds me of a search light, sort of.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks T-man.


----------



## BWA

Just read the whole thread, sounds like you are having fun.

I live about 30 minutes west of NCH. If you can get your ZW back, I would be more than happy to take a look at it for you.

Just currently digging all my Lionel stuff out of storage, and, started my own layout, and, servicing/rebuilding/repairing and restoring a lot of engines cars and switches.

Thinking about offering repair/restoration services in this area.

You are welcome to come over and play with trains any time.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks.


----------



## Bloodhound

BWA said:


> Just read the whole thread, sounds like you are having fun.
> 
> I live about 30 minutes west of NCH. If you can get your ZW back, I would be more than happy to take a look at it for you.
> 
> Just currently digging all my Lionel stuff out of storage, and, started my own layout, and, servicing/rebuilding/repairing and restoring a lot of engines cars and switches.
> 
> Thinking about offering repair/restoration services in this area.
> 
> You are welcome to come over and play with trains any time.


Thanks but I'll pass. Next thing you know I'm on to catch a predator on the wrong end of a friggin tazer or or in a well being told to put the lotion in the f*&^%$# basket! Know what I mean? Didn't you see Joe Dirt? :laugh: J/K thanks for the invite.


----------



## Bloodhound

I'd like to extend a HUGE thank-you to Gunnrunner John! Just got his care package today. We're in O curve heaven! Should keep us busy for awhile!


----------



## Hellgate

Most Generous!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Hopefully, you have enough "track" under your wheels to keep you busy!


----------



## sjm9911

That some nice track. But at the rate you are going , grj needs to sent over a whole truckfull!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Did you like the "bonus" pieces, I figured a couple of insulated tracks might be useful, and I have a bunch of them.  Even the switch parts look better than those you showed us, and those were in my junkbox!


----------



## Bloodhound

I appreciate that. If only I knew what insulated straight tracks were for!!! LOL Feeling pretty stupid though. spent 2 hours trying to lay out what we want on the floor last night and still can't get it right. 

I'm beginning to understand why some prefer the 027 and fasttrack. Must help when space is limited. Still, I love the nostalgia of the tubular full O track. The layout we want in full O doesn't seem complicated and is probably childs play for you guys but its driving me nuts!


----------



## sjm9911

Bloodhound, the insulated track is great. You use it to automaticly control lights and such ( crossings, gateman etc. ) The ouside rail is insulated from the rest of the track. When the train runs over that section of track the wheels compleate the circuit triggering your accessory. You need a lock on or other wire configuration on the insulated track. I couldent find any cheep enough but they are easy enough to make yourself. Im sure you have a greenburg book its under special track.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You have to put insulating pins in each end of an insulated track section to use the features described above, what the insulated track section does is isolate one of the outer rails. They useful for all sorts of signals and the like.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks Guys! Definitely not going to nail things down until we accessorize! 

Speaking of that, I'd like to stick with vintage stuff only. Any recommendations on vintage powered working accessories that the kids can enjoy? Got my eyes on the working milkcar and platform already!


----------



## sjm9911

Milkcar is way cool, I' m not a kid but am partial to the coal loader. Who doesn't like rocks being thrown against gravity?


----------



## santafe158

If I recall correctly, the Log loaders were pretty reliable. The coal loaders, milk and crate cars were pretty finicky, but still fun :laugh: How about an operating gateman? I really like lights on the layout too, and Lionel made plenty of different ones over the years. Just look around and see what catches your eye.


----------



## BWA

It always amazes me how cheap the operating Milk cars go for.

BTW, I just scooped nearly 100 cars for an average of about 6.00 each, did I do good???


----------



## BigAl56

Thats a good price for cars.

I really think any of the log or coal handling accessories are winners for the kids. Mine always got a kick out of the sawmill. Before and after you unveiled the secret.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I like the log loaders and log cars, the barrel loaders and barrel cars, and the milk car. I'm not a big fan of the coal stuff. While the coal stuff is cool, it's really messy and you end up getting the coal all over the place.


----------



## servoguy

Two that the kids really like are the cattle car with the corral, and the rocket launcher, the one that launches 4 little white rockets.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks for the recommendations. Next up is the milk car and barrel loader. Picked up a few items off evilbay tonight...

























































Also had our first "real" success tonight as well. Following your 022 switch threads to a T (no pun intended there TMAN!) we reconditioned, serviced and restored grandpa's 022's. Derail safety works perfect on both and now they switch like butta! LOL:laugh:


----------



## sjm9911

Nice cars, you need a corral for the cattle car!


----------



## Bloodhound

That one and the dump car was a bonus. I was after the operating boxcar and helicopter cars mainly. I'll get around to finding cattle and the other stuff. Too tickled pink over the 022 switches to worry about it now! LOL


----------



## NYC 5344

Wow, awesome that you got them working. If you are interested in using/working on the dump car, there is an article in the March issue of Classic Toy Trains on getting it to run like new.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Soon you'll have two more, they're on the porch for the postman.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The coal and log dump cars from that era worked really well, I have a couple of each. I have one log car converted to TMCC so I can dump logs on command from anywhere on the track.


----------



## Bloodhound

Our layout in classic tubular O should be finished tomorrow. I've been on the lookout for a set of Sante Fe F3 2343's and since it will be several weeks until our NYC 2344 set is restored I pulled the trigger tonight on what was to me a very appealing set. Not looking for a display case set I could care less about original boxes etc. The main focus was to find a serviced set we can run to our hearts content. Seller offered a 14day return and this set if accurately described is just what were looking for. Here's his auction writeup....

*Up for auction I have a matched set of Lionel post war #2343 F3 AA chassis with brand new #38312 post war celebration replacement shells. In 2009 Lionel came out with the post war celebration set of 2343 Santa Fe AA's. Lionel's post war celebration series is suppose to be exact replicas of the post war era. It was a disaster. Lionel had numerous complaints that the war bonnet red paint was not the right color. It had a purple hue. To satisfy their customers Lionel reissued new replacement shells to all that bought the set. This set that I have up for auction have the reissued shells with the corrected red color. I will include the factory box that the shells where shipped in. The chassis have been completely serviced and restored to like new condition. The armatures as well as the e-unit and horn relay contacts have been cleaned and polished. All the gears have been washed clean and new lubricants applied. I use clear silicone grease which doesn't cake up and turn to wax with age. The frames have been refinished with the correct silver color. There is no rust anywhere and the battery compartment never had any corrosion. Needless to say this set runs and looks like new. I have posted 9 pictures of every possible vue for you to examine as they are part of my description. You have the best of both worlds here, mint post war celebration shells on post war #2343 chassis that are restored to like new condition. The 2343 chassis is Lionel at it's best, added magna-traction over the 2333's, and the duel horizontal motors which were replaced with vertical motors on the 2383"s. Nothing in the industry compares to the powerful smooth running characteristics of Lionel's post war duel horizontal motor chassis. This chassis is complete with nothing missing, broke, or warped and has no reproduction parts. No disappointments here, this set is absolutely beautiful. If You have any questions please ask them before bidding. Shipping via USPS Parcel Post Mail will be $25.00 to lower 48. I ship immediatly upon receival of cleared payment. I accept Paypal as well as other forms of payment. Thanks for your interest.*

Payed top dollar yes but IMHO worth every penny....


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, he's right, they look brand new!  Good luck with them, I suspect they'll run like a top, sounds like he took considerable care in doing them.


----------



## sjm9911

Glad you finaly found one!


----------



## tjcruiser

Those look pristine! I know that Lionel took a lot of flack with the earlier issue ... bad coloring ... not true SantaFe at all. They've certainly redeemed themselves, though ... beautiful, by any measure!

TJ


----------



## BigAl56

> The main focus was to find a serviced set we can run to our hearts content


As long as you understand these will be runners and not collectors pieces. The placing of modern shells on top of a postwar chassis is not an endorsed practice of train collectors. Should you choose to sell these in the future this alteration should be clearly stated to a would be buyer as was to you by the seller. 

Sorry, this sounds like the legal disclaimer at the end of a pharmaceutical commercial. Enjoy.


----------



## tjcruiser

I believe he said it's the 2009 "postwar" chassis with the (somepoint thereafter) replacement shell (where Lionel fixed the color problem). I don't think he has the true postwar chassis.


----------



## santafe158

tjcruiser said:


> I believe he said it's the 2009 "postwar" chassis with the (somepoint thereafter) replacement shell (where Lionel fixed the color problem). I don't think he has the true postwar chassis.


Based on there being a battery compartment and all the chassis parts saying New York on them, I'm pretty sure the chassis are actual postwar ones


----------



## tjcruiser

SantaFe,

As a re-read the ebay descrip in post 166, I believe you are correct.

Sorry, A'man ... I stand corrected, I think. 

TJ


----------



## Bloodhound

areizman said:


> As long as you understand these will be runners and not collectors pieces. The placing of modern shells on top of a postwar chassis is not an endorsed practice of train collectors. Should you choose to sell these in the future this alteration should be clearly stated to a would be buyer as was to you by the seller.
> 
> Sorry, this sounds like the legal disclaimer at the end of a pharmaceutical commercial. Enjoy.


I'm no collector by any stretch nor do I intend on becoming one. Too early to tell where the hobby will take us. I Just want to get as much out of the hobby as possible for myself and my son. These were bought to run and I have a soft spot for the Sante Fe's as my late cousin had a set that was stolen. They were a gift from our grandmother and he never got over it. I didn't want to take on two restorations at the same time either.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Personally, I think you got an excellent deal, and they sure sound like they'll be excellent running machines. I'm with you, I'm not worried about the collector value of my stuff.


----------



## BWA

By the time I get stuff, it HAS no collector value, except maybe the trash collector.

Nice score. Good price, nice condition.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks, glad you approve. In all honesty if I could get my hands on a set of reproduction NIB shells for the NYC F3's I'd do it in a heartbeat. For shits and giggles I tried to look for a set for the century Lionel club repops but no dice.


----------



## sjm9911

Junk is the only stuff I can afford! Bloodhound, buy what you like and have fun 
You have some great peices. The one thing that still amazes me about these trains is there longevitey. It astounds me how long these things ran for and continue on.


----------



## Bloodhound

sjm9911 said:


> Junk is the only stuff I can afford! Bloodhound, buy what you like and have fun
> You have some great peices. The one thing that still amazes me about these trains is there longevitey. It astounds me how long these things ran for and continue on.


It's America at its finest really. Produced in a time when quality, craftsmanship and sound design meant everything. I'm a BIG history buff who's facinated with the 40's and 50's. That's what got me into restoring classic cars. It's a form of time travel for me. I suppose a great many of us who have an affinity for pre and post war trains are reaching back for something we've lost. Shame we can't bring all the good from that era back with them.


----------



## servoguy

If you want to get a look at the birth of the Industrial Revolution, look up Henry Maudsley and Eli Whitney. Maudsley put the compound tool rest on the lathe and invented many other machine tools. He made the first precision lead screw. He made the first micrometer. His cohort, Whitworth, created the first standards for nuts and bolts. Whitney made the first milling machine. 

Then you get to Nikola Tesla who invented the AC induction motors - all of them - in a flash. Edison could not have done that. 

Harold Black invented the feedback amplifier without which we could not have long distance telephony. He got the invention after many others had failed and most were convinced that it was impossible.


----------



## BWA

Hey, without the Feedback Amplifier, we wouldn't have had Jimi Hendrix.


----------



## Bloodhound

I have a few basic questions for you guys as we prepare to finalise our layout. I've found it difficult in some places to get the certain curves to mate up perfectly. In other words a bit of pin will show. Also, what causes sparking on the track? Seems to happen in the same places here and there. Is that ok? Lastly, accessory switches with exposed wire connections make me a little nervous. Is there a danger using these? (Little kids to consider).

This is basically it. Nothing fancy by any stretch but for us newbies its a start...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Bloodhound said:


> I have a few basic questions for you guys as we prepare to finalise our layout. I've found it difficult in some places to get the certain curves to mate up perfectly. In other words a bit of pin will show. Also, what causes sparking on the track? Seems to happen in the same places here and there. Is that ok? Lastly, accessory switches with exposed wire connections make me a little nervous. Is there a danger using these? (Little kids to consider).


Sometimes, depending on how everything is aligned, you will have a slight gap, but you shouldn't have large gaps, maybe 1/8" or less.

Sparking can be caused by dirty spots on the track, and it can also be caused by uneven track, perhaps one rail is slightly higher, or perhaps it's a bit wider at that point. If it happens at the same place, it's probably not the locomotive.

I don't think there is any danger to kids with exposed connections, it's a low voltage circuit. The greater danger is probably something getting pushed up against it and creating a short circuit. If it's not a dead short, it can generate heat and potentially cause a fire. 

Note: NEVER leave the layout powered and unattended!


----------



## sjm9911

Good advice. I have some small gaps in my track also. I was going to fill them in with solder and sand them smooth but they work fine as they are. If it works it doesn't need fixing. If the exposed wires are a concern you could always cover them with a peice of ellectrical tape. ( worst case senerio might be a small shock. Like your toung on a 9 v battery . )


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks Guys. I suspect it's uneven track. The 022 switches are higher than the track it mates up to for some reason and that's where she sparks. As for the gaps some places not to bad and others very tough to diagnose. We'll keep at it.


----------



## servoguy

You will get a spark when the engine enters the switch if the engine is throwing the switch using the non-derailing feature. This is normal.


----------



## Bloodhound

Ahhhh Ok...that's what she's doing. Thanks Servoguy!

Got the New Sante Fe F3's in the mail today and wouldn't you know it...BAD LUCK. The set is beautifull and runs like a cheetah on cocaine! Problem? No Horn. Battery gets so hot after trying once or twice I'm afraid to keep running it. Checked the load at the transformer center and outer rail with the train running while depressing the horn and all is good. Tried searching the forum for F3 HOT BATTERY no results. I swear if we didn't have bad luck we'd have none in this hobby! GRRRRRR


----------



## Bloodhound

Looks like we'll be returning the new Sante Fe F3s tomorrow. The powered A died yesterday and no longer moves. Started lurching on the track and losing power. Wouldn't even move with less than 18volts. Gradually lost power and speed after 2-3 laps. Now no longer switches making only a grinding sort of humm sound. Also, the front magnetic coupler on the dummy pops open every time it hits an 022 switch. I've asked the seller to repair them and return as I do like the set. Like I said before if we didn't have bad luck we'd have none. Very frustrated at this point.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's a real bummer, it looked like such a nice set too!

Maybe you could get a generous discount and fix them yourself, saves sending them back.


----------



## Bloodhound

Wouldn't even know where to start John. No horn at first, coupler on the dummy etc. I'm on the verge of throwing in the towel. Course I'm pissed off as all hell as I haven't received any response from the guy with the ZW.


----------



## sjm9911

This hobby does kind of teach you to have a sort of zen like patience. Sorry to hear about the santa fe.


----------



## Bloodhound

I'll have to pray for additional patience. I found the problem with the Sante Fe powered A. Heat from the D battery warped the rotating cylinder in the E-unit. For the hell of it I broke it down, replaced the cylinder and nothing. Whole thing is smoked.

As for the dummy no idea why the front coupler is activated and pops open every time it passes over an 022 or 042 switch.


----------



## servoguy

If you read my post "022 and 711 switch operating pblms", you will find the answer to the problem of the coupler coming open every time the loco crosses a switch.


----------



## Bloodhound

Can I search by author for your post servoguy?

As for the powered A I found the cause of all this BS!!!!! The D-battery frame was making contact with the E-unit coil. The resulting heat melted the E-unit cylinder. I bent the frame of the D-battery and we have a horn. I replaced the E-unit cylinder and she switches again but all I'm getting is reverse. Looks like a finger or two is damaged beyond salvageing. What a shame all this could have been avoided if the seller had caught that.


----------



## servoguy

search for the post using Google.
The post is on the CTT


----------



## Bloodhound

Great thread Servoguy but I must be missing that particular issue. Read it through twice now. Is this it?

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/164691.aspx?sort=ASC&pi350=1


----------



## servoguy

That is the correct thread. It's six pages long. Did you read all of it?

The problem is with the sliding shoe. It is contacting the tip of the fat center rail of the 022 switch. The shoe may be worn on the sides, or the tip of the fat rail may be bent up too high. A little finger pressure on the fat rail should solve the problem if the shoe is OK. Don't bend it too far or your dockside switcher will have a problem.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks Servoguy. I noticed that the horn on the powered A gives a little beep going over the switches. Same problem?

As for the "sliding shoe" what is it. Sorry I'm still new to the hobby and learning as I go.


----------



## servoguy

The sliding shoe is on the bottom of the front truck of the loco. It is used to open the coupler when the loco is on a UCS (universal control section). It contacts one of the extra rails and when you press the Uncouple button, the coil of the coupler is energized and the coupler opens.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks for your help Servoguy. I sincerely appreciate it. As for the Powered F3 I got pissed off enough to fix it myself. I broke down the E-unit for a second time and saw the two fingers on this contact were burned off at the tips. Only noticed after I compared them to the fingers on the E-unit from our NYC set..Check out the cylinder from the first breakdown. :O



















I took the cylinder and fingers out of the E-unit and replaced them with the ones from the E unit of our NYC set. Made sure to clean them to beyond perfection before installing. Re-assembled and Running like new. Seller is mailing me a replacement refurbished E-unit for my troubles. Sure beats mailing the engine back and forth. 

As for the coupler on the dummy A I'll address that thanks to servoguy's help and see where we wind up.


----------



## servoguy

Believe it or not, you can actually take a pair of pliers and squeeze the drum back into shape and it will work for some time. I don't know how long. I did one in a 2055 on a Sat night that I wanted to get running that night. This is courtesy of Dave Smith on the CTT forum.


----------



## NYC 5344

Ouch. I've had an e-unit look like that. I ended up buying a parts locomotive that was like half there just for the e-unit.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm glad you're able to work through this, and as you say, it's a PITA to ship stuff back and forth. Did you figure out what happened to the horn?


----------



## Bloodhound

Well, what happened was the D-Cell battery casing was leaning forward making contact with the E-unit coil shorting out the horn and superheating the battery etc. The resulting heat melted the E unit cylinder and burned off two of the fingers. I just used trial and error. Took me all damn day yesterday but I'm the type that will obsess on the problem until I figure it out. Just bent back the casing, broke down the E-unit and replaced the cylinder and fingers using parts from the NYC set. Seller is sending me a cleaned and tested E-unit which will go back into the NYC F3. As for the Dummy A coupler popping open every time it goes over an 022 or 042 switch Servoguy helped with that. I'm just not clear on how to address it. I tried bending the tip of the switch center down ever so slightly but it's still being triggered. Perhaps the fact that the adjoining track is uneven and there are gaps here and there is adding to it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Uneven track is the bane of model trains, you should see if you can address that.


----------



## servoguy

Did you check the condition of the sliding shoe? They will wear so that the sides are worn down and allow the contact to touch the fat rail.


----------



## Bloodhound

John, I'll be working to try and address the gaps and uneven areas where the track meets the switches.

I did Servoguy. Here's what the shoe on the dummy that's tripping looks like...


----------



## servoguy

The shoe looks fine. Bend the fat rail down a little more.


----------



## sjm9911

Glad to hear at least some good news.


----------



## Bloodhound

servoguy said:


> The shoe looks fine. Bend the fat rail down a little more.


Did it and no change. That did not correct the problem. The dummy A coupler is still opening going over the switches. Funny thing is the horn on the powered A will beep going over the switches as well. Both are somehow making contact. I wonder if it could be the actual moving (switching) rail portion of the switches. Could the weight of the loco depressing on the outer edge somehow lift the other side in a see saw kind of motion? Could that be making contact with the shoe or the bottom of the trucks?


----------



## servoguy

Put the loco on the track and get a flash light and look under it as you push it through the switch. Look and see what is happening.


----------



## Bloodhound

Nothing is making contact...even the shoe. Here's what I did find though. The coupler is activating even on regular track whenever it goes to the left side (toward the inside of the table) As you can see, my pushing it and letting it come back slightly will trip the coupler. Apparently it does so when pulling cars as it goes into a turn as it reaches the end of the switches. Not knowing or understanding the workings of the magnetic coupler make this difficult for me to diagnose.


----------



## Bloodhound

A few more observations. NOW has a tendency to uncouple ESPECIALLY when the roller is making contact with the wide section on the switches. Will do so regardless of direction. Front coupler gets extremely hot as doesn't disengage unless I lift it off the switch.


----------



## servoguy

You are going to have to disassemble the front truck and check the wiring. The wire from the sliding shoe goes directly to the coil. There is a wire from the pickup that goes to the E unit. Likely the insulation is bad on the wires, and they are touching which would operate the coupler. There isn't much else that can go wrong with the coupler.


----------



## Bloodhound




----------



## servoguy

Where does the cut off black wire go? Where does the red wire go? There should be a wire soldered on the rivet of the sliding shoe. This wire should go to the coil of the coupler. Does the red wire go to the E unit?


----------



## Bloodhound

Red wire goes to the headlight bulb and the black from the shoe to the coupler. I don't see a coil wire anywhere.


----------



## servoguy

That's right. This is a dummy, so no E unit.

The coil is on the coupler. To see it, you would have to remove the truck from the frame. The coupler, if I remember correctly, is sandwiched between the truck and the frame. 

The black wire is not connected to the shoe in the pictures. Did you take it loose, or did it break off?


----------



## Bloodhound

It was broken off and moving about when I popped it open to inspect.


----------



## servoguy

Well, if the black wire touches the brass spring, the coupler is going to open. Applying 3rd rail power to the coupler will open. Solder the black wire onto the shoe and everything should work OK


----------



## BWA

When the truck swivels, the black wire probably contacts the bronze spring. This would trigger the coupler for sure.

Just needs to be re-soldered to the rivet.

OOPs, I see Servoguy and I were typing at the same time.


----------



## Bloodhound

BWA said:


> Just needs to be re-soldered to the rivet.


Ya Think! LOL:laugh:

Like anything else, a loose wire will wreak havoc and cause things to act possessed! Been there and done that with the classic cars. Kills me that I paid $400.00 for the fully restored "running set of my dreams" only to spend 4 days repairing them! That's my biggest gripe.

I did get the E-unit in the mail and it looks very good. By the time I'm ready to re-assemble the NYC 2344 I should be an expert in F3's. Got the Greenberg repair manual though and I'm looking forward to using it when needed.


----------



## servoguy

It is good to hear it is all working. When somethings acts strange, checking for broken wires is a good idea. I have an Alco diesel that was running just fine and then suddenly just quit. Wire broke off of the pickup. Soldered the wire back on, and everything was OK.


----------



## Bloodhound

Yeah thanks Servoguy. Appreciate your helping diagnose. I'll never assume anything I buy in this hobby to be 100% ever again! LOL


----------



## servoguy

IMHO, anything you buy should be lubed (I don't do much cleaning unless the loco is very dirty or packed with grease turned to concrete) and checked before it is run. The hobby shops may or may not know how to fix or service stuff correctly, and they charge plenty and who knows what you are going to get for your money. BTW, the first time I had an F-3 apart was about 1954 or 55.


----------



## servoguy

You know I recommend motor oil for lubing Lionel stuff, no matter what it is.


----------



## Bloodhound

My days of sending things off or dropping off at the hobby shop are over. One need only read this thread in its entirety to see why.

I remember you mentioning the oil you use. What weight is it again? Also, what do you find works best as an all purpose applicator for the oil? I know there are some small and tight spots to get it into.


----------



## servoguy

I have a good pin oiler at home, but I am 1500 miles from home. I am using a small pick and just dipping the end of it into an open bottle of oil to pick up a drop. I am using 10W-30 right now, and it seems to be OK. I have also used 5W-20 with good results. I bought a pin oiler at Harbor Freight, but it didn't work with the heavier motor oil. I don't know where else to get one. Maybe McMaster Carr. 

Did you read my thread on how to make good connections between track sections? I bought a few hundred sections of O-31 track most of which had some corrosion. Not wanting to work very hard at cleaning it up, and still wanting to make good low resistance connections between the sections, I devised the following scheme:

With the pins facing away from me, I bent the center rail near the end, where the pin is installed, to the right so that the end of the pin moved about a pin diameter. Then I bent the left rail similarly to the left. When the track sections are joined, there is significant contact pressure on the pins, both in the open end of the adjoining section, and in the section where the pins are installed. This contact pressure is necessary to get a good low resistance connection. Furthermore, when the track sections are joined, the ends of the pins and the inside of the tubes are burnished. There is a bright spot on the end of each pin. I have a loop of track with 63 track sections and only one lockon, and the locos run just fine with very little speed change. This approach is much easier than trying to squeeze down the open end of the rails of a track section and then insert the pins of the adjoining section into them. This approach, which is Lionel's recommended approach, doesn't work very well. Using my approach, when you disconnect two sections of track, you do not have to rebend the rails. They can be connected many times without doing any more work with pliers.

My approach to cleaning off the tops of the rails is equally simple and easy and even fun. I put a loco on the track with some cars, lock the E unit in forward only, and proceed to run the train. If there is a place where the loco stops, I get an unused section of track and use the end of one of the ties as a scraper to clean the top of the rails where the loco is stopping. After running the train for a few hours, the top of the outside rails are nice and shiny, and the center rail is clean enough that the E unit can be switches to normal operation.


----------



## Bloodhound

I'll give you credit servoguy. I had one straight section I was having issues with. Last night I did exactly what you recommended as far as bending the center and outer tips. Worked like a charm...absolutely no slowing down now!

As for the oiler I have a pin oiler I use to lube our cuckoo clock. I'll give it a shot. 

The other neat trick I really like is using a hot glue gun for insulating twisted wire connections or repairing worn insulation spots here and there. You experienced guys have some great tricks of the trade and advice to give. Those of us who are new to the hobby should count our lucky stars you gents are here to help us!


----------



## tjcruiser

I "stole" servoguy's pin trick a while back, too! :thumbsup:


----------



## sjm9911

Took some time but you got it working. At least you learned a bit a long the way. Would have been nicer if they worked from the get go. And i want to echo your statment. Thanking everyone here. Without this forum I would not have a train set just boxes full of junk. Thanks.


----------



## Bloodhound

tjcruiser said:


> I "stole" servoguy's pin trick a while back, too! :thumbsup:


I don't know TJ. With over 13 thousand posts I figured you were the "yoda" of all things model train! Oh wait that must be T-Man! LOL


----------



## Bloodhound

sjm9911 said:


> Took some time but you got it working. At least you learned a bit a long the way. Would have been nicer if they worked from the get go. And i want to echo your statment. Thanking everyone here. Without this forum I would not have a train set just boxes full of junk. Thanks.


You got pictures of your layout somewhere SJM? Wouldn't mind checking it out!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Bloodhound said:


> I don't know TJ. With over 13 thousand posts I figured you were the "yoda" of all things model train! Oh wait that must be T-Man! LOL


TJ is like me, just likes to blab.


----------



## sjm9911

Bloodhound, thanks for the interest. I have some pic in the "my first layout " thread. Right now it should be on page two of this o gauge thread. I been slacking off lately on my layout as i'm having fun trying to fix up my engines! Empire in progress.....


----------



## tjcruiser

Bloodhound said:


> I don't know TJ. With over 13 thousand posts I figured you were the "yoda" of all things model train! Oh wait that must be T-Man! LOL


I don't have any original ideas.

I do have slightly over 13,000 stolen good ideas, though!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

And I'm ahead of TJ in that count.


----------



## Bloodhound

I better get a move on. I'm at about 2! LOL 

Soldered up the Dummy on the Sante Fe set and she's working perfectly and the powered A is running like the bees knees! Plenty of power and very responsive to the transformer. I'm having issues now with couplers on the cars giving way. I have to delve into them a bit and figure out how they function and if there's some kind of spring that brings them back etc. Not sure if they are rebuildable or require oiling or lubrication. All are vintage 50's cars that will decouple with the controls.

On a good note I broke down the dump car, cleaned everything up, reassembled it and it works perfectly. I guess I'll have to invest in the coal loader after all. Be a shame to waste a perfectly good coal car!!!! LOL


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, for the couplers, as counter-intuitive as it is, try lubing them with dry graphite. If they have any friction, the latch pin tends to work it's way down the latch until the car uncouples. I've fixed several that had that issue. Also, the little spring in the PW cars can get weak and that will cause you issues as there is no tension to hold the coupler latches.


----------



## Bloodhound

John, Are you saying to lube the coupler surface with dry graphite? As for the little springs on the PW cars where can they be had?

BTW I have no idea what a PW car is. Power Windows? :O Wait...Post War! Just came to me.


----------



## carinofranco

wow, that set is in very very nice condition! when you get the 999 cleaned up and running, you will have a really nice Marx set. The Marx locos are not too hard to take Apart and service, so you might want to tackle that yourself. Good luck.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The coupler latch, when the coupler is open, you'll see where the pin drops in and keeps it closed. The springs (and rivets you'll need to replace them) are available from The Train Tender.

Here's a list of the most common coupler parts for both the die-cast and plastic couplers. You'll notice there are two rivets listed, the black and the nickel. The 480-16Q spring and the TC-23BQ black knuckle rivet are probably the parts you'll use the most on PW (post-war) cars. The plastic knuckles have a molded in spring (that dies after a few years), so for later MPC cars, you'll need a lot of those!  The knuckle is obviously used if you're missing one or break one.

480-8 cast knuckle new LTI
480-16Q knuckle spring (TC-22) min(25)
9050-56Q plastic knuckles w/spring min(25)
TC-23NQ nickle knuckle rivet min(25)
TC-23BQ black knuckle rivet min(25)


----------



## servoguy

John, my experience has been that there are two types of plastic knuckles: The early ones snap into place without a rivet and have a spring that fails quickly. The newer design also has a plastic spring but uses a rivet to hold the knuckle in place, similar to the die cast knuckles. The spring on these knuckles doesn't fail. 

Speaking of rivets, I don't upset the end of the rivets for knuckles, I only squeeze it slightly into an oval. This keeps the rivet in place and allows me to remove it and reuse it at a later date.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, I've used the ones with the rivet exclusively, and I've found tons of them where the plastic spring is dead, they do fail. I've replaced probably several hundred of the plastic knuckles with rivets for failed springs an the last few years. I have a set of 8 NIB (but old stock) woodside reefers from Lionel, most of the couplers are already shot, so I'll be replacing those as well.

As far as saving the old rivets, I'm a cheapskate, but that that cheap.


----------



## Bloodhound

Thanks JOHN! Once I get a few things straightened out I'll put in an order and explore the wonderfull world of coupler restoration!

A bit of Good news today! Got an email from the gentleman restoring our ZW. He says its finished and ready to be shipped home. He sent me these couple of pictures. I've asked if he replaced the circuit breaker to the new style as I requested and I'm waiting to hear back from him. My understanding is that the power cord, coil, diodes, terminals and rollers have been replaced along with most of the internal parts.....


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looks like it's a good one now!


----------



## sjm9911

Looks great, some good news always helps.


----------



## Bloodhound

You got that right. "Assuming" it works when we get it back we should be good to go. Grandpa and the family will enjoy seeing it in action I'm sure!


----------



## Bloodhound

Response regarding my inquiry on the ZW circuit breaker...

_Everything works well. The circuit breaker is the base mount original and in great shape. It will not fail you. They are much better than the side mount that Lionel went to and better than the side mount breakers that I sell new. _

Do I accept or am I getting railroaded here?????? LOL


----------



## Kwikster

One word of caution, the original CB's will NOT provide proper protection. You'll want newer faster acting type. The ones Lionel used barely protect the transformer itself. You can use individual ones wired between the "hot/positive" side and the track. That's the safest route. I believe 7 amps would be plenty for most situations. Unless the internal one is actually bad, I'd leave it alone and run the external type.

Carl


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The breaker in a transformer is strictly to protect the transformer, you MUST have external circuit protection for your trains and other equipment running from the transformer.


----------

