# Help with a Mantua engine



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

Hey guys. Long, long time no see. lol.... 2 years actually. I finally met real life. But I'm starting to get back into my trains. And what better way to start then asking people much more knowledgeable than me about an engine I just got. All I know is what the box says and what somebody told me. It's a Mantua Collectibles, B&O Royal Blue Pacific. Can anybody give me anymore information about it? Like how old it is, what it sold for new, what it's worth? He said it is new in box, taken out once to display for about 1 week, never run, and put back in it's box. I ask this because I want to get as much information as possible for when I put it up for sale or trade (not in this forum, obviously). Thanks guys, Michael.


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Towards the end of their run, Mantua offered these in the late 80s/early 90s. They are a little more common than your average "Collectable" but still desirable as Mantua put out a quality product. A little late for the Christmas market on eBay but, you never know.


----------



## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have been collecting and restoring Mantua locomotives for the last few years. By no means an I a pro but this is what I have noticed at trains shows, where I get most of mine.

That is a Mantua Pacific. Running condition I have seen the plain ones go from $30 - $50 depending on condition. Yours with box and being a Royal Blue may be more. Unfortunaly near the end many of the locomotives were sold as a 'collectible' series. In addition to this the locomotives did not change allot from the day they were released. Different models even shared a large number of parts or a variation of parts. Also Model Power bought and re-released these at a later date.

For me the fact that the same one was made for so many years and shares parts with others makes them more attractive for restoration. I buy not for investment but to tinker with and run.


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

I didn't buy it, a friend gave it to me, he said he never ran it, and he wanted me to have it. Somebody did tell me it was special because of the gold pipework all over the engine, they said the standard engines didn't get all that. But like I said, I'm going to try and sell or trade it. It doesn't fit my collection, and I've been dying to get my hands on a Bachmann Plus NYC Niagara with smoke. That does fit my collection and I love the look of them.


----------



## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Its just a churhed up standard 4-6-2. Those "gold parts" were added as detail and more flashy appeal.


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

Tyco, that's what I figured.


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

2509SilverLink said:


> Tyco, that's what I figured.


...but worth more than that Bachmann you're after...


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

shaygetz said:


> ...but worth more than that Bachmann you're after...


It may be, but I'd rather it go to someone and make them happy, then I get the engine that makes me happy. Right now it's just going to stay in it's box in a dresser drawer.


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

2509SilverLink said:


> It may be, but I'd rather it go to someone and make them happy, then I get the engine that makes me happy. Right now it's just going to stay in it's box in a dresser drawer.


Is this a later Bachmann? If it's one of the earlier ones, you're about to pick up much grief as the plastic used in the drives often cracked, even on the hobby shop shelf.

You're about to make me desparately wish I had one to offer as a trade...


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

I don't know, I just keep looking on ebay. The one that pops up the most is the "Bachmann Plus 4-8-4 Niagara with smoke, light".


----------



## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

If it is available after Christmas I may make an offer on the Mantua if that is OK. I do not have any Bachmann steam for the reason that Shay stated above.


----------



## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

IF you are dead set on getting a Bachmann, get a new one, that has the can motor and better axle connectors. The new ones also have a can motor instead of the pancake type.

I have 3 older Bachmann 4-8-4 that were made for Lionel. All of them are not runable due to the cracked plastic.


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

rrgrassi said:


> IF you are dead set on getting a Bachmann, get a new one, that has the can motor and better axle connectors. The new ones also have a can motor instead of the pancake type.
> 
> I have 3 older Bachmann 4-8-4 that were made for Lionel. All of them are not runable due to the cracked plastic.



How do I know which one is which? Like I said, the one's I keep finding are "Bachmann Plus". And what piece is cracked?


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

The only way to be sure is to buy it from a reputable online dealer or hobby shop. A trade would be too risky as you simply don't know (nor likely the seller either) which one it is. The originals used a bad plastic in the drive that split regularly. Worse still, it seemed that Botchmann, as they became affectionately known as, kept offering them that way off and on for years. Take the Mantua, sell it on eBay or here, then use the money to get what you want NIB...don't trade for it and set yourself up for disappointment.


----------



## Tino (Apr 25, 2012)

Do the mantua's have smoke? I look at them on ebay and they don't really tell you much when they sell these engines. They don't even tell you if it has a headlight. I like steam engines with smoke and headlight on it.


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

Tino, it looks like it has a headlamp, as for smoke when I looked down the stack I could see light, so no factory smoke, but you could add one, and because it is all diecast you wouldn't have to worry about melting a plastic bodyshell.


----------



## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Mantua made very few with factory smoke. Yardbirdtrains makes a smoke unit for these locomotives. It will require you to drill out the stack to make it a little wider.


----------



## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

SilverLink, I'd keep that jem if I were you! Mantua's are reliable beauties, and that takes the cake over my dream Royal Blue (the original one from the 1960's)! I may be young, but I've got wisdom about locomotives, beyond my years, and I say you keep it. My Mantua NPK 2-8-2 has a factory installed smoke unit. I'll never sell it, because it's a darn fine runner, and the locomotive was bought by my Pop's as a surprise. -


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

trainguru said:


> SilverLink, I'd keep that jem if I were you! Mantua's are reliable beauties, and that takes the cake over my dream Royal Blue (the original one from the 1960's)! I may be young, but I've got wisdom about locomotives, beyond my years, and I say you keep it. My Mantua NPK 2-8-2 has a factory installed smoke unit. I'll never sell it, because it's a darn fine runner, and the locomotive was bought by my Pop's as a surprise. -


While I would keep her, she just doesn't fit in with my stuff. And I'd prefer she go to a good home where she will be loved. What I have managed to find out about her is that she is supposed to have a certificate with her saying she is number so and so out of 2500. That is also why she got all the gold coloured pipe work and the gold coupler from her front cow catcher.


----------



## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

2509SilverLink said:


> How do I know which one is which? Like I said, the one's I keep finding are "Bachmann Plus". And what piece is cracked?


Between the drivers, there is a plastic piece that connectes the stub axles together, making an insulated, "solid" axle.


----------



## Wolfy3869 (Jan 11, 2013)

Having re-worked many of these Bachmann 4-8-4s over the year ( I have a Cool Whip container full of parts)...anything from the "Plus" line on up will be ok. The 'Plus" line was from the mid 1990s when they introduced the can motor and new axle connectors. The old Lionel ones had a round stub that pressed into round opening white plastic (nylon?) axles. Round hole into round opening = slippage. Whenever the rods would bind or the loco was stopped by something but still running (like say, oh I don't know..a CAT, lol), those wheels could turn on their axles resulting in what I called "the Bachmann Smile" - the rods look like this: W...these also had the cheap 'pankcake' or 'sidewinder' motors in them that were weak and noisy.
The 'Plus' line attempted to improve these problems with first a can motor, then changing the axles to a square stub into a square hole. Square into square can't slip. However, what happened to these is the plastic axles would crack and split and then the wheels could slip, resulting in the W..other engines have had this problem as well (Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 Mikado anyone? - although that was a gear not an axle)..
For a time, the only way to make one of those work really well was to, well, take the shells off the tender and loco and chuck everything else and throw a Bowser repower kit under it.
Somewhere around 2006 or 7 or so ( I think), Bachmann has released a 3rd run of these engines with even better motors and drivelines in them. They aren't Spectrum, but I have one of the DCC Equipped ATSF 4-8-4s and they run like a dream. Smooth, quiet, slow, reliable..THAT would be your best bet - go to trainworld.com and order a brand new one from them. I think you'll be MUCH happier than getting a 20 year old Plus version. 
Of course, if want to go even better than that, snag a BLI Niagara. Those are fantastic!

Mike


----------



## 2509SilverLink (Nov 25, 2010)

Well, the B&O is gone. She got traded, plus a little bit of cash, for Rivarossi's later release Union Pacific "Greyhound" Challenger #3979, with the single flywheel motor, and what I think is factory DCC. I'll start a new thread because I have some questions about her.


----------

