# Layout tips and suggestions for a new modeler



## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

Hi, I'm a new user here and a new model railroader. I got my first model train for Christmas when I was 8 and it's been a dream of mine since then (30 years) to get into the hobby, so I guess better later than never.

I have my benchwork build already, the outline of it is in the image linked. I’ll be using N scale. The top and the left sides are adjacient to a wall and window so they are less accessible. The total lengh is 10 feet.










The initial inspiration of what I want to build is a slightly smaller version on this 4x12 layout below but I would like to add a town and at least one industry somewhere. And more switches and dead ends (which for some reason I like a lot)

http://www.scarm.info/layouts/track_plans.php?gallery=88;1

Here are some observations and goals for my layout:
- I have a half inch plywood on top of the table and I’m thinking of using a 2 inch foam on top to be able to have some elevation changes.
- I bought the Kato Unitrack starter pack, it’s solid and good quality. I’m a little bit concerned that it has zero flexibility and look wise it’s not that authentic, especially for industry areas.
- I don’t want to prototype any specific place but I do like authentic look for the track, scenery and surroundings.

I'm using RailModeller Pro for Mac which I find pretty good.

I’d love to get some tips on how you guys would plan the layout and what you would put where.

Thanks.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Interesting continuous running layout. I'd add more industrial spurs
so you can do more switching when you get tired of watching the
trains go round and round.

I can't tell what happens in the tunnel, and view of the tracks is
muddy in the middle left, but you may have one or two
reverse loops. That would not be a problem if you will
be running DCC, as there are automatic devices to control them,
but if you will be DC you would create a bit of complex wiring
and equally annoying operating.

You can use flex track for your industrial spurs and yard tracks.
You can make a transition from your Kato.

The 2" foam is a very good idea. It does make it easy to have
varying landscape elevations, streams lakes and ponds.

Don


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

So far so good.You've set your overall dimensions and yes,two inch foam works great for landscaping a layout.If available,pink foam works best for this.

Now,before you chose/draw your trackplan,you have to decide what type of locos/trains you plan on running.Four axle diesels and smallest steamers can operate on 9 3/4 in. radiuses,while six axle diesels and medium sized steamers prefer 11+ in.Large steamers will run and look much better on 15+ in. radiuses.

If you Google "Model train layouts",you'll find hundreds of interesting plans to chose from.Just make sure you use one that fits your goals,otherwise,you'll have to draw yours.


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks guys for the tips, especially the foam type and the radius that I haven't thought about. 

Quick foam questions: does it matter if I buy two 1' foam sheets or one of 2'? Also how do you attach it to the plywood? what kind of glue would work?

Also do I have to do any wiring prep before and after installing the foam for DCC?

Thanks!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Pink foam is generally used for insulating walls in cooler areas...you may have a hard time finding some in CA.I know it's not available everywhere.

If you find some,you may not have a choice of thickness but both one or two inch thick will do.I like working with the two inch type.

Solvent based glues will melt the foam.I use water based carpenter's glue.However,since glue needs air to dry,so will dry much faster along the edges (overnight) but may take weeks to completely dry further in as foam blocks air very efficiently.Holes in the plywood board helps a lot for this.Epoxy would do just fine too,more expensive but doesn't need air.Have the foam weighed until glue sets.

Wiring runs under the plywood so before or after the foam doesn't matter much.You want your wiring to be visible.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

The technical name for the foam is extruded foam board. Various companies make it. Owens-Corning makes the pink stuff, Dow makes it in blue (IIRC), and Kingspan makes it in green, but it's all the same stuff. Your local home center can order it, but they will probably have a minimum quantity. If you're in northern California you may have an easier time finding it than someone in San Diego.


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks Jake and flyboy for the good info. 
I'm from NorCal I found a Home Depot about 50 miles from me that sells the pink foam, I'll go there later in the week.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

If I understand your pictured layout right,you'll need three pieces (2 1/2 actually).They sell in 8'X2' so make sure your vehicle can handle this.Weighs next to nothing but takes space.


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

I'll probably cut it in store the same two sizes as I cut the plywood. 3x5 and 4x7. My car was somehow able to handle that.


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

Nice layout design! In my observation, you may want to cut a few access holes near the walls.
That way, should there be a derailment or maybe a light burn out, you can just pop the scenery hole up, fix the issue and plunk the scenery back down.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

norbertsz said:


> Also do I have to do any wiring prep before and after installing the foam for DCC?


You need to install your wiring bus lines from which you'll run the droppers to your track. This should follow the basic shape of the plan. As Don says you have some reverse loops on there which will need a unit to handle the polarity change. You also need to decide how the turnouts will be operated, simple CD units, servo operated or Tortoise type. Good luck.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

For curing glue on foam, lay your beads of glue in an S shape, so no area is completely enclosed by glue. This greatly aids in curing.

You also don't need to fasten it down. Mine is held in place by gravity and friction with the fascia.


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> You need to install your wiring bus lines from which you'll run the droppers to your track.


Can you further explain this?


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> For curing glue on foam, lay your beads of glue in an S shape, so no area is completely enclosed by glue. This greatly aids in curing.
> 
> You also don't need to fasten it down. Mine is held in place by gravity and friction with the fascia.


It's actually an interesting idea, not to glue it down at all...


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

norbertsz said:


> Can you further explain this?


The 'bus' is the name for the main power feed coming from your controller which follows your track plan and from which your feeder wires attach directly to the track. I use solid core mains copper cable for mine with a lighter gauge wire for the droppers to the track.


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks, what tools you use to drill through the (ply)wood and subroadbed?


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

norbertsz said:


> Thanks, what tools you use to drill through the (ply)wood and subroadbed?


I just use a standard drill. I lay the track first, then use the smallest drill bit that will allow the drop wire to pass through it. I drill right next to the outside of the track, between two ties. Then I strip the wire, bend it over and solder it to the outside of the rail. Then I connect it to the bus wire below.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MtRR75 said:


> I just use a standard drill. I lay the track first, then use the smallest drill bit that will allow the drop wire to pass through it. I drill right next to the outside of the track, between two ties. Then I strip the wire, bend it over and solder it to the outside of the rail. Then I connect it to the bus wire below.


I actually use an old fashioned, hand powered drill, because I find it easier to control at the lower rotational speeds. Foam takes no effort at all to drill through.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> I actually use an old fashioned, hand powered drill, because I find it easier to control at the lower rotational speeds. Foam takes no effort at all to drill through.


I should have clarified.... I use a standard VARIABLE-SPEED electric drill -- at very low speeds. I have another drill that is not variable-speed, but it never gets near my layout.

But the hand drill is a good idea, too.


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks a lot for the info!

I bought the foam, going to install it (cutting big chunks of foam is hard work, lemme tell you). Btw, any tips on tools to cut foam? A regular knife doesn't cut it smooth enough.

Still trying to figure out the layout, reading John Armstrong's book now, there is more science to it than I thought...


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

You're doing great,first things first.Now that you have your foam,go ahead and install it.As been said,gluing it isn't mandatory.

Once it's installed,I suggest you temporarely assemble your Kato starter set on top of it and run trains...it will keep your motivation alive and tame your urge to rush things while you're searching for your best layout options.

With the shown benchwork,you should be able to build a very interesting N scale layout.Take your time and plan ahead as possible.With John Armstrong's book,you have the model train bible on hand...I read through it twice.

Few things I learned....
-Railways don't build tracks just for filling the landscape.Every track has to have a definite use,the ones that don't are simply...not there.

-While scenickly interesting,tunnels can be a maintenance nightmare.It's best to keep them short and straight unless the top can be removed to clean tracks or retrieve derailed engines and/or cars.

Climbs are also appealing but eat up a lot of landscape.Trains have a hard time dealing with climbs that exceed 2% (2"rise=100" of track both sides).Steeper generally limit trains to only 3-4 cars or need more locos.

Try to avoid S-curves by having a piece of straight track the length of your longest loco between two opposed curves.S-curves often cause derailments.


Like I said before you have to decide what type of trains you plan on running as it will pretty much dictate wich track plan will suit you best.Curve radiuses is probably the most important part of a track design.


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## norbertsz (Dec 27, 2015)

Brakeman Jake said:


> Once it's installed,I suggest you temporarely assemble your Kato starter set on top of it and run trains...it will keep your motivation alive and tame your urge to rush things while you're searching for your best layout options.


Yeah, I've been doing it since I put the plywood on the benchwork 
Definitely keeps me patient for next steps. 
Thanks for the info


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

For cutting foam, I use a mini-hacksaw, basically a full length hacksaw blade with a handle that leaves about 5" of the blade free. This works great for cutting foam.

I recommend against any kind of hot wire cutter, as these emit toxic fumes.


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