# MTH Z1000 Controller Input (Watts) Question



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

We move into the new home on July 6. My new train layout area is (total) 10 x 24, but it won't be completely filled with boards and track. Previous layout was 17 x 7. I used a Z4000 to run 2 tracks. 

I would like to run 3 independent tracks on this new layout. 4 seems too much but I might consider it. Time to get a 2nd transformer / controller. 

Making some assumptions - the Z4000 will operate the 2 longest runs around the layout, and as before I will have multiple drops of correct gauge lines. 

If I run a dedicated 3rd line which may have just as much Fastrack as the outers, I was considering either an old timey Lionel ZW, a modern MTH Z-1000, or the MRC GRJ pointed out recently. 

Specifically, I am looking at the MTH Z-1000 which has a seperate brick of 100W, and the small controller. But in searching on ebay I see a higher wattage, presumably higher out put transformer of 150W - 









MTH Z750 TRANSFORMER 150 WATT POWER SUPPLY | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MTH Z750 TRANSFORMER 150 WATT POWER SUPPLY at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Note this is for the "Z750" 










The above is the Z-Controller I would like to use. I agree it is small and does not have the impression of a ZW or my Z-4000 but I like it, simple and easy to use. 

I am not the brightest in terms of equivalency on electronics, but why is the Z-750 rated at 150 w while the Z-1000's I am seeing are rated at 100W? 

My bottom line is I want to use the Z-750 brick with the Z-1000 controller for "maximum" power to the track with comfortable control - what am I missing? Will the Z-750 transformer damage the controller or is the MTh Controller compatible with all of the power supplies up to a point? 

Will the Controller overheat from a larger transformer?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Z-750 is not rated at 150 watts! I'm not sure where you're seeing that, but the Z-750 is rated at 75 watts.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I wanted to add I already have the Lionel 80w transformer from a RTR set. In theory I could run a dedicated smaller "industrial" loop off this transformer, but feel 80W is not sufficient to run a long 10 x 24 line, even with drops to electrify the line. I could very well be wrong, but mention this because of the "possible" 4th track. 

I may be wrong, as I am going off memory, but my Z4000 consists of 4 outputs of 180W. Since the Z4000 and the ZW-L are considered the best high output transformers on the market, I look for as close to this wattage as a 3rd line alternative. Therefore, 150W out of the Z750 into the Z1000 controller seems like a good option. And, by unscientific deduction, my 80W Lionel out of a smaller RTR set - might be challenged to push a train around the new layout. 

At approximately $850, I really don't want to buy a new ZW-L and MTH's are discontinued, so I am not that interested in dropping $450 on another Z4000.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)




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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Note it's showing you the INPUT power as 150 watts. The output power is listed as 78VA, 21V * 3.75A, aka 75 watts. It really is NOT a 150 watt output transformer.


Bryan Moran said:


> I may be wrong, as I am going off memory, but my Z4000 consists of 4 outputs of 180W. Since the Z4000 and the ZW-L are considered the best high output transformers on the market, I look for as close to this wattage as a 3rd line alternative. Therefore, 150W out of the Z750 into the Z1000 controller seems like a good option. And, by unscientific deduction, my 80W Lionel out of a smaller RTR set - might be challenged to push a train around the new layout.


The Z-4000 has two 180 watt outputs for the two handles and a 40 watt output for the accessory output. It's total power is 400 watts, not four times 180 watts!


Bryan Moran said:


> At approximately $850, I really don't want to buy a new ZW-L and MTH's are discontinued, so I am not that interested in dropping $450 on another Z4000.


Look at the latest post about the Z-4000, you'd be dropping a lot more than that, try at least $600!


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bryan Moran said:


> I wanted to add I already have the Lionel 80w transformer from a RTR set. In theory I could run a dedicated smaller "industrial" loop off this transformer, but feel 80W is not sufficient to run a long 10 x 24 line, even with drops to electrify the line. ...


Transformer watts and loop length are not related. If the transformer can handle the loco-consist load on small loops, it can do so on long loops. The issue with longer loops is losing voltage from poor (e.g., high resistance) intertrack connections. Transformers with higher maximum voltages may mitigate some loss of voltage on a high resistance loop (e.g., 21 V ZW versus a 16 V 1033). But that's not really curing the cause of the issue. Clean connections and power drops are the goal. I had an 140' loop consisting of various vintage O-27 track. Cleaned all the pins and crimped the rails. Only had one power drop, albeit, at a crossover that distributed power in all four directions. The 90 W, 16 V 1033 ran it just fine. And that's the 1033's input wattage. Actual output to the track is ~ 65 W. Skip to the 30 mark, below.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Still learning electronics after 57 years. You guys are way ahead of me. My Basic Electronics book shows Joule's Law as Power (Watts) = Voltage x Current, current being amps. 100 watts = 18 v x 5.56 amps. If I purchase the Z1000, with a controller, and drop lines every 6-8 feet I should be OK. 

I use Fastrack, and join them, and will use 30 inch runs as much as possible.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Watts equal to Volt-Amps is only with DC or AC with a pure sine wave and a zero power factor. In the real world, that almost never happens for AC. Volt-Amps is known as "apparent power", and Watts are a measure of "real power". As for the 5.56 amps, you switched transformers, we were talking about the Z750, you even posted a picture of it!

The bottom line is, your trains will only consume the power they need, but having reserve power is a good thing.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bryan Moran said:


> ... I use Fastrack, and join them, and will use 30 inch runs as much as possible.


Review this MTF *thread *on fast track connectivity. Especially posts #13 & #14.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Watts equal to Volt-Amps is only with DC or AC with a pure sine wave and a zero power factor. In the real world, that almost never happens for AC. Volt-Amps is known as "apparent power", and Watts are a measure of "real power". As for the 5.56 amps, you switched transformers, we were talking about the Z750, you even posted a picture of it!
> 
> The bottom line is, your trains will only consume the power they need, but having reserve power is a good thing.


You are correct John, I was (am) going back and forth and causing confusion. 

I want a Z1000 transformer and combined controller called the ZController. I will use this to run a dedicated line - somewhat smaller - industrial. I "may" use my Lionel 80W with paddle control to run an even smaller line. I will use my Z4000 to run 2 lines around the entire layout, which will focus on passenger consists. 

As you assisted previously, I like the MRC Transformer you recommended but I can not find it on ebay, and they seem to have limited retail availability.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Millstonemike said:


> Review this MTF *thread *on fast track connectivity. Especially posts #13 & #14.


GOOD thread! I need to learn to solder as well, so what better way then a whole lot of Fastrack. Even the 30 inchers would benefit.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bryan Moran said:


> GOOD thread! I need to learn to solder as well, so what better way then a whole lot of Fastrack. Even the 30 inchers would benefit.


In my video, all the long straight runs used 18" O-27 track. That increased power reliability over individual 9" pieces.

But practice soldering on scrap wire rather than the plastic track. It's more an art than a science. When you get that far, we'll "talk you down"


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I went ahead and purchased a used Z1000 with Z Controller off ebay for $101 total. I will use this for a dedicated industrial / freight route maybe with sidings and all fastrack or Gargraves will be connected well.


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