# Where to buy QUALITY brand Loco & what are the Quality Brands?



## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Hello All, Greetings. New here. Been reading a lot.

-Where do you guys get your supplies, particularly locomotives? 

-and what brands do you recommend for quality and reliability? 

Appreciate the help for a newby.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Reason why Im also looking for Athearn, its just what I happen to buy as my very first loco and pax cars by chance after wify and I had a grand experience in riding the White Pass Yuokon Rail in Skagway to Yukon rail, truly breath taking. Am now bug bitten.

I kinda like the quality, but Im a newby.. anyway, now Im looking for their Alaska-Skagway-Anchorage line next... Im wondering if any of you seasoned engineers would know the best source.

TIA
Mike


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

If im buying brand new stuff i usually get it from here.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Default.asp


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

In addition to Model Train Stuff (which is my go-to supplier), I also use Trainworld (www.trainworldonline.com) and Blue Ridge Hobbies (www.blueridgehobbies.com). All good dealers, good prices and good service.

Why restrict yourself to Athearn, though? All HO brands are compatible, and there really isn't anyone selling dogs anymore. Even a toy trainset car can be spruced up a bit to make it presentable. Higher prices are usually assigned to items with more and better details.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Thanks Gents! Appreciate the good info.

*IRT other brands... that's actually my next question... I don't mind paying extra for #1 Reliability/Quality, #2 Efficient and best functions & #3 more details. So what would be the hierarchy of brands for those features? I know thtas probably subjective.. but Im learning so please post your order of Best, Better & Good brands.*

TIA
Mike


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Am I the only one that giggled at Athearn and quality.............


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

3.8TransAM said:


> Am I the only one that giggled at Athearn and quality.............


Probably, In the past Athearn have been some of the most reliable trains on the market, and only when other makers have copied Athearn technology, have they come up to Athearn standards.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

thedoc said:


> Probably, In the past Athearn have been some of the most reliable trains on the market, and only when other makers have copied Athearn technology, have they come up to Athearn standards.


Yep. My OLD athearn stuff is way better than the NEW athearn stuff the room mate bought.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

3.8TransAM said:


> Am I the only one that giggled at Athearn and quality.............


Can you educate a newby like you once were, than just giggling?


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Thanks Doc & Santa. 
What are your heirarchy of brands for reliability and quality?


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Mike I'll put it nicely.

I have 4 Athearn Genesis.

2 are great and two have been nothing but issues from day one.

I have 2 SDP45 in EL scheme, that were bought from an estate sale/collection sale. They run so good I believe they probably have been opened up and gone thru.......

My FEF-2 4-8-4 Union Pacific Northern refuses to make it around my club layout where the sharpest curve is 38 inches and most are much broader. I've gotten the tender pickup issue fixed, but after a lot of testing today with some old schoolers at the club I a moving on to the engine pickups next. For something that was $279 on sale, this is a damned joke.

Also my Genesis DDA40X is a steaming turd. Bad connections at the dcc boards, lost the rear truck pickup wire, rear truck tower cap likes to spontaneously remove itself. 

So be careful what you ask for about quality...... I've also seen plenty of other new Genesis with issues straight out of the box at the club as well. They also burn out their headlights rather quickly, especially when running DCC. Also a batch had issues due to incorrect length axle gears causing electrical pickup issues.

I live close enough to Des Plaines where I might spend a day driving over to throw them thru their windows with a note that says "I found one thing they actually do right" on them.

I will not defend them selling a premium product at a premium price and screwing it up time after time.

For those who say "your not a real modeler" go #$%% yourselves. I can tear down and rebuild an engine to the frame, hard wire decoders add LEDs, sound or any of the other current "in" crap is.

I find it funny that I overhauled a P2K GP9 that had the nickel silver wearing off the wheels and the first time I had it out it ran more reliably than 50% of my Genesis engines............. that was with a $14 decoder and ebay LEDs......


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

carrera mike said:


> Thanks Doc & Santa.
> What are your heirarchy of brands for reliability and quality?


It's sort of subjective.

All the engines we have seem to be about the same level of reliability...

Haven't actually had any Hardware failure, other than the "operating couplers" on an MTH. they quit working properly after like two weeks. but the loco it's self is very nice, heavy, powerful. it has the loudest sound system of the bunch.

I'm very happy with my cheaper bachmann stuff. a bit less detailed but good pullers none the less. they have the most hours out of anythign else we own. sometimes i just let them run alllll day. they also dont seem to care at all if the track is dirty, they just keep on trucking.

i have a newer Walthers proto, its nicely detailed but stutters on the track more often then than the rest. any sort of dirt at all and it complains. i consist it with a bachman behind it, keeps it from totally stalling.

the newer athearn genesis stuff tends to stutter a bit too.

any old athearn we have seems to be just great. heavy pullers. easy to convert to dcc.


Over all the best engines i have were the cheapest ones, with a cheap decoder i installed my self.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

3.8TransAM said:


> Mike I'll put it nicely.
> 
> I have 4 Athearn Genesis.
> 
> ...


Aaah, now I know why you feel that way. Thanks for explaining. I work on aircraft maintenance and we don't have room for error. I get frustrated when QA is not in the equation.
Do you own Kato loco? Im guessing theyre better in quality?
Thanks!


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

santafealltheway said:


> It's sort of subjective.
> 
> All the engines we have seem to be about the same level of reliability...
> 
> ...


Wow, I have a lot to learn. whats the mercedes benz of HO scale? and How about Kato brand? or am I even asking the right questions?


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Most Atlas and Kato have been very good and reliable for years.

I cannot comment on the newest sound equipped stuff, but I see a lot of stuff in person and read a lot as well and usually don't see complaints involving them.


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## JimL (Aug 16, 2015)

3.8TransAM said:


> Most Atlas and Kato have been very good and reliable for years. ....


I agree. And, Kato and Atlas' Master Line are very nicely detailed.

The Athearn Genesis line may be the best detailed, but operation can be spotty. Both electrical and mechanical problems. But, people do open them and tune things up.

(Kato makes their stuff in Japan, not China)

Good luck.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

No hierarchy. My stable is as follows:

Athearn Blue Box 1
Athearn RTR 1
Athearn Genesis 2
Atlas Master 1
Bachmann 1
Bachmann Spectrum 3
IHC Command XXV (Rebranded Mehano) 2
Lifelike Proto 2K 1
Walthers Trainline 1
Walthers Mainline / Proto 1K 3
Walthers Proto 2

I don't have a dog in the lot. Minor lubrication, run-in, and decoder tweaking has them all running like champs. Well, ok, I did replace the gears on the Lifelike Proto 2K.


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

Don't forget about broadway limited.... very good detail, great runners, and some of the best sounding sound decoders I've ever heard.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

*Thanks all!* Now Im understanding which brands to get and stay with. Appreciate it!

Here's my very first loco, a GP38-2 DCC Ready, WPYR, I got it from White Pass Yukon Rail train shoppe not knowing that it is an Athearn. I think its smooth from very slow take off with 7 cars in tow. I don't detect jitters. But that's my newby eyes... let me know if you seasoned gents sees otherwise.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

santafealltheway said:


> If im buying brand new stuff i usually get it from here.
> 
> http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Default.asp





CTValleyRR said:


> In addition to Model Train Stuff (which is my go-to supplier), I also use Trainworld (www.trainworldonline.com) and Blue Ridge Hobbies (www.blueridgehobbies.com). All good dealers, good prices and good service...


Really good prices from those delaers. Thanks!:thumbsup:


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

carrera mike said:


> Here's my very first loco, a GP38-2 DCC Ready, WPYR, I got it from White Pass Yukon Rail train shoppe not knowing that it is an Athearn. I think its smooth from very slow take off with 7 cars in tow. I don't detect jitters. But that's my newby eyes... let me know if you seasoned gents sees otherwise


Looks nice and smooth to me! I'm guessing that it's not Athearn Genesis, but one of their regular, ready to run engines....am I right?


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Old_Hobo said:


> Looks nice and smooth to me! I'm guessing that it's not Athearn Genesis, but one of their regular, ready to run engines....am I right?


Yep, not a Genesis. Just a DCC "Ready" RTR. I don't even know how old this stock is


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I'm a steam guy, so take my impressions with a very salty lump.

I have the impression that the top two HO scale diesel importers are, in no particular order, Kato and Atlas. Not necessarily in details and paint, although my Atlas Master Gold FM H-24-66 early diesel is a masterpiece in reliability, weight, and smooth running. I don't own a Kato, but I have yet to read a post where someone said he thinks they are garbage. Never. I've been on six different modelling sites and moderated at one of them.

Athearn Genesis have a solid reputation, but they aren't above rebuke. The trucks on their SD-70 series produced about seven years ago had torsion in their frames and the models would derail as a result of misaligned axles. For detailing, it's a challenge to beat Genesis.

BLI and MTH diesels are very good, not so heavily detailed, and I don't recall reading months and months of complaints except on one production item for both of them, and that was five years ago now.

A relative new-comer is Rapido. As far as I can see, they are taking the HO world of transition era models by storm. Jason Shron is very public about his product development, including having to halt development for months in order to correct a problem in details, specs, or tooling. He has had a few boo-boos where customers grumbled, but he generally responds quickly and corrects the faults.

For steam, Bachmann Spectrum or the regular Bachmann series, now that many Spectrum models have been relegated to just plain old Bachmann, are bargains. Nice details, some problems...it's a crap shoot from item-to-item. 

If you purchase, chances are 1/20 you'll have a problem of some kind out of the box, and that's across the industry. If we wanted better probabilities and reliability, we'd have to pay another 30% for the products, and the hobby wouldn't flourish under that price level. You can tinker if you are skilled, but sometimes just asking for a return order and getting a replacement, with the six weeks it might take, is the price for enjoying the hobby peacefully...and in warranty.

Good luck.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Hey Mike,

Don't be afraid to poke around your local hobby shops.

There are still a lot of good ones out there with knowledgeable folks running them.

Nothing wrong with using the local guy, most prices are comparable in a lot of cases and there is no shipping charges.

Just something to think about if you have a good local shop or two in your area.

I do ebay, mail order, shows,swap meets, etc. But I always maintain a good relationship with the local shop and he gets probably the lions share still. It's where my Scaletrains Big Blow came from. I even ended up 42 cents cheaper than direct


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

carrera mike said:


> *Thanks all!* Now Im understanding which brands to get and stay with. Appreciate it!
> 
> Here's my very first loco, a GP38-2 DCC Ready, WPYR, I got it from White Pass Yukon Rail train shoppe not knowing that it is an Athearn. I think its smooth from very slow take off with 7 cars in tow. I don't detect jitters. But that's my newby eyes... let me know if you seasoned gents sees otherwise.


My take on that is if YOU are ok with the performance, who gives a rat's derriere what we think.

The first thing you need to learn in this hobby is the golden rule: Your Layout, Your Rules. Yes sometimes, what is acceptable to you may change over time as your skills and experience grow, but it should NEVER be about what someone else thinks.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

Several years ago I had a set of Athearn Hi-F FA-FB units. I replaced the original motors with a flat can with fly wheel and stepped the speed down by installing a pulley and belt to a full length shaft that ran above the the motor. That was the smoothest and quietest diesel engine set I ever had, and I have a few new ones that are no better running.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Your WPYR locomotive must have been a special run for that train shop...the only GP38-2 loco I could find on the Athearn web-site is this one, and now it's packaged as "Roundhouse" (which Athearn now owns)......


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## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> Your WPYR locomotive must have been a special run for that train shop...the only GP38-2 loco I could find on the Athearn web-site is this one, and now it's packaged as "Roundhouse" (which Athearn now owns)......


Works for me!!


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

edited-duplicate post


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

mesenteria said:


> I'm a steam guy, so take my impressions with a very salty lump.
> 
> I have the impression that the top two HO scale diesel importers are, in no particular order, Kato and Atlas. Not necessarily in details and paint, although my Atlas Master Gold FM H-24-66 early diesel is a masterpiece in reliability, weight, and smooth running. I don't own a Kato, but I have yet to read a post where someone said he thinks they are garbage. Never. I've been on six different modelling sites and moderated at one of them.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Wow, what an experience you have.. Thanks for this comprehensive write up. Sure am like a sponge right now learning from all of you. Although I do have a high mileage mind already.. so Im sure to come back to this thread to reference. :thumbup:



3.8TransAM said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Don't be afraid to poke around your local hobby shops.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree 3.8TrnsAM! I do like to keep the $$$ locally, as long as they try to gauge me too bad. The good thing with the local shop is I get lots of education before I pull the trigger on certain items. Just a bunch of genuine enthusiasts eager to help :thumbup:



CTValleyRR said:


> My take on that is if YOU are ok with the performance, who gives a rat's derriere what we think.
> 
> The first thing you need to learn in this hobby is the golden rule: Your Layout, Your Rules. Yes sometimes, what is acceptable to you may change over time as your skills and experience grow, but it should NEVER be about what someone else thinks.


Good point! But I really do appreciate the pointers and lessons learned as Im sure saves me lots of $$$ mistakes 

Thanks all! I really do appreciate you gents help!


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Just got my additional 4 pack White Pass Yukon Rail cars from the mail! 3 passenger & 1 baggage coach 

Could someone tell me please what is "Roundhouse"... I noticed its stamped on the lower corner of the box, 1st picture below.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

Roundhouse is just one of thier product lines.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

santafealltheway said:


> Roundhouse is just one of thier product lines.
> 
> Aaaah I see. Thanks :thumbsup:


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

lifetime experience


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Old_Hobo said:


> Your WPYR locomotive must have been a special run for that train shop...the only GP38-2 loco I could find on the Athearn web-site is this one, and now it's packaged as "Roundhouse" (which Athearn now owns)......


You can get the green one I have(I call it John Deere color  ), which is the one that runs Skagway - Yukon, from here http://wpyr.com/product-category/modeltrains/ho/

Wife and I rode this train last July and it was breathtaking! experience of a lifetime. We also rode in the same week the Seaward to Anchorage, which is the same blue scheme you have and is a GP40-2


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Another thing of note, don't be afraid to pick up some 4 axle P2Ks.

After a thorough over haul, replacing axle gears if cracked and a hard wired decoder along with some work on the light pipes and some ebay LED specials, you can have some great locos for $50-60 total investment.

Have a fleet I've put together and am slowly going thru 1 at a time.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

Sorry I digress. So what Im picking up, Atlas Master Line, and Kato are the finely made locomotives. 
Please keep naming your picks.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

3.8TransAM said:


> Another thing of note, don't be afraid to pick up some 4 axle P2Ks.
> 
> After a thorough over haul, replacing axle gears if cracked and a hard wired decoder along with some work on the light pipes and some ebay LED specials, you can have some great locos for $50-60 total investment.
> 
> Have a fleet I've put together and am slowly going thru 1 at a time.


Hope to learn and have that courage someday.. rebuilt/assemble those tiny precision gears and pinions


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

carrera mike said:


> Hope to learn and have that courage someday.. rebuilt/assemble those tiny precision gears and pinions


its not difficult, axle gears are easy


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

carrera mike said:


> Could someone tell me please what is "Roundhouse"... I noticed its stamped on the lower corner of the box, 1st picture below.


Roundhouse started just after WWII, or maybe just before, as one of the names for Model Die Casting trains. The original line was all die cast metal and the cars were very heavy and didn't need extra weight. Then the company started using plastic for the freight car bodies, they didn't make many diesels, mostly steam engines. Several years ago Athearn bought the company and Roundhouse is now part of Athearn's line. If I remember correctly MDC Roundhouse was one of the first to offer multiple packs of freight cars with different road numbers, there were several 12 packs in different road names. Most other companies were offering freight car kits with different combinations of stamped sheet metal and die cast parts.


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## carrera mike (Sep 21, 2016)

thedoc said:


> Roundhouse started just after WWII, or maybe just before, as one of the names for Model Die Casting trains. The original line was all die cast metal and the cars were very heavy and didn't need extra weight. Then the company started using plastic for the freight car bodies, they didn't make many diesels, mostly steam engines. Several years ago Athearn bought the company and Roundhouse is now part of Athearn's line. If I remember correctly MDC Roundhouse was one of the first to offer multiple packs of freight cars with different road numbers, there were several 12 packs in different road names. Most other companies were offering freight car kits with different combinations of stamped sheet metal and die cast parts.


That's what I thought I read somewhere thjat it was originally a British co. I didn't know about the diecast though.. now in plastic  still nice details though. Thanks Doc!


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

carrera mike said:


> That's what I thought I read somewhere thjat it was originally a British co. I didn't know about the diecast though.. now in plastic  still nice details though. Thanks Doc!


I can't answer about MDC being British, I am only familiar with it as an American company. I do believe there was a British or European company with a similar name to Roundhouse.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

As a history of Athearn/MDC, take a read here:

http://trainpages.blogspot.ca/2015/08/athearn-model-die-casting-history.html


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> As a history of Athearn/MDC, take a read here:
> 1984
> Model Die Casting introduces the Shay steam locomotive kit.


When the shay was introduced, it quickly acquired a reputation of sounding like a coffee grinder when it ran. I had one and built it up, but rebuilt the gearbox with NWSL gears in a rebuilt gearbox. I also used a can motor and fly wheel, and got the wheel gears aligned, so that you couldn't hear it run till it got to almost full throttle. There were several techniques published in the magazines to quiet those gears, but most involved reaming out all the gears but one so that everything floated freely. The real solution was to get the outside wheel gears in mesh with the worm and axle gears that drove the engine.


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