# Metal wheels?



## SamFoy (Dec 15, 2014)

Yes, I am a newbie and need helpful facts. I hear that I need to switch out the plastic wheels that come with most train cars. Does this mean I need to do just that with all the cars I buy in the future? I know some freight cars can be bought with metal wheels at a higher cost - that starts to drive up the cost?
I am having fun looking for older cars with unique advertisements and shapes. Should I replace all wheels, even the old wooden board cars(late 1800's)?
Thank you for any help


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

I'd replace the plastic wheels on pretty much everything that'll be run with some frequency.

They roll better, bring less gunk to the tracks, and sound better over the track joints. haha


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

Conveniently you could read this article on this _random_ blog

http://www.modelingtrains.com/2-hour-projects/metal-wheel-upgrade/

Be nice though, I've been working 60-70hr weeks lately and haven't had time to write much more for the site.

I've got about 10 more articles in the pipeline, just need to flesh them out a bit.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I would absolutely change to metal wheels. Years back when I started my layout, while track laying was under way, I was also working on my locomotives and rolling stock. This was over 25 years ago and there was nowhere the selection of rolling stock that there is today. Most were Athearn blue boc car, with some Sliver Streak and Tichy kits thrown in. 

I custom painted a lot of them for my freelance railroad and one of the very first things to get changed were the wheels. Kadee were the norm back then, and still available today. many cars hed the entire truck changed over to Kadee sprung trucks. 

Today Intermountain also makes great metal wheels, and they can be bought in bulk. It only takes a few seconds to change out the wheels and you will be a lot happier with them. 

Today these 25 year old cars are still in service and have been operating without any problems over the years.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Chet

Have you had any problems with your Kadee sprung trucks?

I had replaced the original plastic trucks with them on several of my
freight cars. They vastly improved the running. But now,
when, due usually to a forgetful switchman, one is derailed,
it is a pain to rerail them without a truck flexing which results
in the springs popping out never to be seen again. My
brother had the same problem and solved it with a tad of
super glue to defeat the flexing.

I plan to glue those on my cars that are still functionable.

Don


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I have really not had any problems with the sprung trucks. Here's one of my old Athearn blue box cars. It's been in use for over 25 years and no problems. 










On my cabooses, I removed the coil springs and replaced then with leaf springs which cabooses are equipped with, again, no problems. 










Here is the only problem I had with sprung trucks, that would not occur during normal operation. The camera car. It ends up that all of my flat cars are equipped with sprung trucks, plus my curves are super elevated. The camera is a bit heavy scale wise, and if the camera wasn't perfectly centered and balanced on the car, it would roll off of the flat and down a hill. 










I really don't notice much difference with the sprung trucks, with the above exception to running the original plastic trucks with metal replacement wheels.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

DonR said:


> But now,
> when, due usually to a forgetful switchman, one is derailed,
> it is a pain to rerail them without a truck flexing which results
> in the springs popping out never to be seen again. My
> ...


You do not want to totally defeat the flexing of the trucks. It helps the wheels stay on track when going over small track irregularities and changes in grade. (As an aside, uou will notice that the good quality plastic trucks are still pretty flexible and should bend a little when necessary -- if the car is up to the recommended weight.)

You could just put a drop of glue on one end of the spring to keep it from going ballistic, and leave the rest of the spring to do its job.

Also, I find that it takes quite a bit of flexing to cause the spring to go ballistic. I have no problem rerailing sprung trucks -- if I take it slowly and watch from the side to see what adjustments are necessary. You might want to reevaluate your rerailing technique.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Definitely metal wheels. The cars roll much more freely.

As to new cars with metal wheels that are inexpensive - Bachmann Silver series and Atlas Trainman. They are in the $10 to $20 range online from MB Klein.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

DavefromMD said:


> Definitely metal wheels. The cars roll much more freely.
> 
> As to new cars with metal wheels that are inexpensive - Bachmann Silver series and Atlas Trainman. They are in the $10 to $20 range online from MB Klein.


I have quite a few Bachmann Silver Series cars on my layout. They come standard with metal wheels and are reasonably priced. I've been totally satisfied with them.
Bob


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## SamFoy (Dec 15, 2014)

Broox- I will enjoy your words, don't worry.
Thanks for the info guys. Should I unscrew the whole wheel unit and then replace the wheels? I heard from a friend today that this is a good idea.
I will look into intermountain for the wheels- any other brands i might look into?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree that replacing the plastic wheels with metal ones is something you should do, but not something that requires urgent and immediate attention. Replace the wheels as time and budgetary constraints allow. Just be sure to replace all the wheels on a car at the same time. If the wheels have needle bearings (pointed ends), there is no need to remove the trucks. Just gently pry the sides of the truck apart. I use needle nosed pliers to push the sides out.

I personally use 33" scale wheels from Walthers and Kadee.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

SamFoy said:


> Thanks for the info guys. Should I unscrew the whole wheel unit and then replace the wheels? I heard from a friend today that this is a good idea.


I find that it depends on the specific truck (the "whole wheel unit" is called a truck). If the truck is pretty flexible, I leave it on the car when switching wheel sets. If I find that I have to use quite a bit of force to spread the truck to switch the wheel sets, I remove the truck. I find that I can get better leverage when I am working with just the truck.

I also have a foam cradle that will hold the car upside down without damaging small delicate parts of the car. This also makes exchanging wheels (and couplers) much easier.


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## SamFoy (Dec 15, 2014)

How safe is it to focus on Athearn blue box, roundhouse, or ? to built my yard? I have a 2-8-2 steam locomotive on order and would like to stay in the late 1800's to 1930-40. My budget will be decent, but it hurts to think I might have to pay $20+ for each car. When I went to my first train show a few weeks ago I was excited to see blue boxes at $5 each and up. Can anyone say that it might be this easy to find good sales?


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

SamFoy said:


> How safe is it to focus on Athearn blue box, roundhouse, or ? to built my yard? I have a 2-8-2 steam locomotive on order and would like to stay in the late 1800's to 1930-40. My budget will be decent, but it hurts to think I might have to pay $20+ for each car. When I went to my first train show a few weeks ago I was excited to see blue boxes at $5 each and up. Can anyone say that it might be this easy to find good sales?


How successful you are at finding inexpensive rolling stock for your era depends on how picky you are about what railroad (or railroads) you want to collect. It also depends on whether you are talking about freight or passenger cars.

I am modeling the 1920s. Nothing built in 1930 or after. But since railroad cars had roughly a 40-year lifespan, anything built after the late 1880s could still be on the road in the 1920s. I am also pretty restrictive about what railroads I collect cars from – mostly those that ran through the Appalachian Mountains. I have no access to trains shows. I rely on ebay for my rolling stock.. I don’t care if it is a kit or built or was built but needs repairs.

I have found that there is a fairly decent selection of box cars and hoppers from the 19-teens and 1920s -- less so with gondolas and flat cars – but I have found a few. I have also found some stock cars, but I only wanted a few, so I have not followed the supply on these. I have seen very few freight cars made before 1910.

As for passenger cars, there is a decent selection of wooden, open-platform (no vestibule) cars from the 1880s available. There is also a decent selection of the early heavyweight metal cars from the 1920s available. But between those two eras, was the era of wooden cars with vestibules. I have found very few models of that type of passenger car.

However, since you are including the 1930s in your model, you should find a greater selection of all types of cars that I deal with.

As for brand of cars, I don’t care what the brand is, as long as the car meets my criteria. I have ended up with mostly Athearn and Accurail cars, plus a few Roundhouse, a few Atlas, a couple of Varneys , and a couple of Ertls – and some for which I do not know what company made them.

As for costs, I have paid between $8 and $15, for the bulk of my cars. For some that I really wanted, I went higher but I try to stay under $20. Now that does NOT include shipping. I always include shipping costs when deciding how much I will spend for something. The average cost per car that I have paid is around $4 to $5. But shipping costs seem to have been creeping up steadily in the last few years.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Like MtRR75, I don't think you want to be that picky about the manufacturer, but definitely pick up those pieces that support the era and local of your layout.

As for the Blue Box kits, Athearn doesn't make them any more. While there appears to be alot of warehouse stock at the moment, eventually, the lack of new stock will severly limit availability and may create strong upward pressure on prices.


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## SamFoy (Dec 15, 2014)

I have to make decision soon. I am making my layout and line(Santa Fe, Union Pacific, etc.) just for the joy of running trains. I didn't grow up around trains so my ideas on what I want is limited. 
That being said, I think I need to take my enthusiasm for trains to the next level. Research, research, and then be smart on what I buy. I want have fun, but I also want/ need to be accurate on my era.
So, if I want ...
Ok, I would like to cut through some red tape. What do I call the era around the early 1900's so I refer to it as such? I don't necessarily want all metal boxcars - wooden would be my choice. I won't get too picky on manufacturers. I would really enjoy ebay and the search for rolling stock of cars.
MtRR75 - thanks for last post. I will keep you info readily available as I shop. I am a collector so this will get interesting quick.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, if you are modelling the early 1900 era, there weren't many metal boxcars, if at all.......wood was the material for boxcars back then.......Accurail comes to,mind for those.....


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

SamFoy said:


> What do I call the era around the early 1900's so I refer to it as such? I don't necessarily want all metal boxcars - wooden would be my choice. I won't get too picky on manufacturers. I would really enjoy ebay and the search for rolling stock of cars..


The best way to refer to an era is by the dates -- like 1920s. The only "era" that I see referred to frequently by name in railroading is the "transition era". This refers to the period when diesel locos were becoming common, but steam locos were still around in significant numbers. Some modelers like this era because they can run both types of locos and stay true to their period.

You might want to eventually narrow "early 1900s" down to a specific period, like 1900 to 1920, or any other time period. This will help narrow your search for rolling stock.

You should read up on railroad history, which will help you understand when and how railroad locos and rolling stock evolved. One book that I found useful is "Illustrated History of North American Railroads" by Arthur Taylor. I'm sure that there are many other good books out there -- I stumbled into this one on a bookstore's clearance table years ago.

If you have decided on a certain railroad that you want to model, you should read up on its history in detail. Most major railroads have an "Historical Society" which usually has a web site that full of information and often lists other sources, such as books which give more detail.


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

All plastic is bad. Normally do not roll well and are poorly formed. All metal wheels today are over rated. My data indicates they weigh the same as the comparable Blue Box type set. These have plastic wheels and metal axels. The added weight of older metal wheels added to the car at the low level helped the cars stay on the track. In most cases you can put weight in the car much cheaper than adding metal wheels. 
At the end of the day it is how the car rolls that counts. Usually the truck bearings need to be reamed out a little to remove unwanted flash.

The dirty track issue has nothing to do with the plastic wheels. It has to do with current flowing through different materials. So the track material and the current drawing wheels need to be the same material. A little graphite on the track and that all goes away.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Here's some metal wheels.


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

^ Holy moly!

How much i'd give to see a slow mo video of that unfolding!


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## irishthump (Jul 1, 2013)

ggnlars said:


> All plastic is bad. Normally do not roll well and are poorly formed. All metal wheels today are over rated. My data indicates they weigh the same as the comparable Blue Box type set. These have plastic wheels and metal axels. The added weight of older metal wheels added to the car at the low level helped the cars stay on the track. In most cases you can put weight in the car much cheaper than adding metal wheels.
> At the end of the day it is how the car rolls that counts. Usually the truck bearings need to be reamed out a little to remove unwanted flash.
> 
> The dirty track issue has nothing to do with the plastic wheels. It has to do with current flowing through different materials. So the track material and the current drawing wheels need to be the same material. A little graphite on the track and that all goes away.


I would'nt agree there. The plastic wheels just don't track as well as metal ones, especially over turnouts. 
I still have a quite a few pieces of stock with plastic whells and I can tell you that the track is defininatley more dirty after running them. When you have plastic rubbing against metal the softer material is always going to abrade more quickly and I think that is what gets deposited on the track rather than general grime. I have some tight curves so I think that is where a lot of the friction occurs.
On the subject of the older Athearn wheelsets they may be the same weight as modern all metal wheelsets but if you use uncoupling magnets they are a bloody nightmare!


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## SamFoy (Dec 15, 2014)

I will be looking for that book on railroad history. I like the fact that railroad lines kept stories and records enough to build a book. We have a bookstore that handles older books, so I will visit it when I get back home from the holidays.


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## SamFoy (Dec 15, 2014)

I wonder if I could get the book off Amazon?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So do a search on Amazon and find out......?


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