# Is a reverse loop possible without switches?



## high_beam (Nov 24, 2013)

I want to build a dogbone continuous loop connected with a single track. I'm using O-27 tubular and I'm okay being limited to one direction. Access is limited and I want to avoid switches. I've studied Google for a few hours and I'm not finding anything. I would imagine something like a a crossing piece, built to push the train to the outside where the rails would be most solid. There would be no moving parts and everything is fixed. 

I snagged an image of the dogbone idea (note the single track) and a Lionel crossing section. Has anyone ever developed a loop without a switch?


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

If you do not want to use switches just eliminate the switches and replace with a parallel section of track. You would be making an oval with bulges at the ends.

I guess I'm old school but a pencil and scratch paper for me does it a lot quicker than searching the internet.  Try tracing the outline of a dog bone on a sheet of paper.


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## high_beam (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks, but I won't be able to have two tracks between loops, just a single rail. This feels like the kind of problem they would have solved in the 1920s but now we can't?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't see how you can reverse without some switches? :dunno:


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

What you are describing is a modified figure 8.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Put in some switches. You can't do what you want to do without switches.

Years ago, AF made some spring loaded switches. I have one of them, but they don't work very well.

The following thread shows how to make 1121 switches non-derailing:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=20377


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

AHHHH! You linked to MY thread! I helped with something!!! Woo HOOOOO! (well, I helped with other people's help...)

lol

Now that that's out of the way....

There is no such thing as a reverse loop without switches, because the "reverse" part of the project requires them. Why don't you want switches??? I love switches, and am going to learn to build my own in the near future because I MUST have an O27 Y switch.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One way to reverse without a switch is HOG ( Hand Of God ). 

Here's one in use on a train layout.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can make a reverse loop with a trestle and no switches.


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

so doing this is out of the question???


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sawgunner said:


> so doing this is out of the question???


Steve the only way you would be able to reverse a train on that is to do what John said.
Pick it up and turn it around.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> You can make a reverse loop with a trestle and no switches.


How can you make a reverse loop like that?


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## high_beam (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks for the replies! Basically I'm trying to make use of a few tight places to get more running track. Parallel tracks won't work and switch maintenance would be awkward. After looking at 45 degree cross-overs it seemed like a natural progression to have a loop reverse onto the same track.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Using trestles, you don't actually make a reverse loop, but you do end up with the two tracks in the center being one above the other, so not much width is needed.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

high_beam said:


> Thanks for the replies! Basically I'm trying to make use of a few tight places to get more running track. Parallel tracks won't work and switch maintenance would be awkward. After looking at 45 degree cross-overs it seemed like a natural progression to have a loop reverse onto the same track.


What do you mean "switch maintenance would be awkward"?

You know that anti derailing switches would flip automatically, don't you?

I have a reverse loop on my trolley line.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you use 022 switches, and if you rehab them according to my post on the CTT forum, I think that you won't have any switch maintenance. Look up 

022/711 switch operating pblems on Google and you will find the post. It is rather long but very complete.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Using trestles, you don't actually make a reverse loop, but you do end up with the two tracks in the center being one above the other, so not much width is needed.


OK, I get what you are saying now.

I thought he was talking about an actual reverse loop, you can't do that without a few switches. I was thinking about reversing the direction completely. 

What your talking about doesn't reverse directions at all.
OK.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, the switches ( with the auto derailing feature) will do all the work for you. Hook um up and the train will activate the switch by itself. It's completely hands off. O27 track has switches with the auto derailingsystem built in and sswitches that doesn't have that feature. Michelle made hers auto derailing. You don't even have to hook up the controllers. It's pretty cool technology from way back when!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you use the 1122 or later model Lionel switches, you need to rehab them before you use them. Ask Michelle where my post is for 1122 switches. If you install them without rehabing them, I guarantee you will have problems.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> If you use the 1122 or later model Lionel switches, you need to rehab them before you use them. Ask Michelle where my post is for 1122 switches. If you install them without rehabing them, I guarantee you will have problems.


Let me repeat what Bruce posted because he's absolutely 100% correct...

*If you install them without rehabing them, I guarantee you will have problems*

Please trust him on that one. Oh, and trust me, because I installed two without going over them that were "running good enough" and they are a MAJOR headache now.


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

If switches (turnouts) are out of the question your solution could be a gauntlet track. I do not know of any commercial track for this, but if it is all straight making your own should not be hard. Google "gauntlet track" to see images of this in real life.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

timlange3 said:


> If switches (turnouts) are out of the question your solution could be a gauntlet track. I do not know of any commercial track for this, but if it is all straight making your own should not be hard. Google "gauntlet track" to see images of this in real life.


How would a gauntlet track installation make a train reverse directions without the addition of switches? :dunno:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It would be one really large loop?!


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## high_beam (Nov 24, 2013)

Thank you timlange3, very interesting concept I wasn't aware of. Yes, I want a solution without switches. I hope to try some ideas over the holidays.


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## high_beam (Nov 24, 2013)

This is a good explanation of the gauntlet. Two trains could share the same bridge or tunnel for example.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

high_beam said:


> This is a good explanation of the gauntlet. Two trains could share the same bridge or tunnel for example.


Hmm, there are no switch points to flip?
I never saw this, (maybe I have but don't remember:dunno:) 
I searched for Gauntlet and came up with pictures of a main line with different tracks on it. That way you can run different gauged trains on the same line.

And the S men say Lionel's three rail is unrealistic, there are 6 rails in the picture below.:thumbsup:

I wonder if anyone ever sold a Gauntlet track system for model trains? I wonder how one would go around and hand make them out of O track?
If you try do a thread on it. 
I will have to search for a picture of the real thing like the picture you posted. You wouldn't happen to have one where it shows that in the real thing like the picture you posted, would you?

One of the pictures from Wiki first thing that came up for Gauntlet track,


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Heck, we even have some in Union, NJ. :smilie_daumenpos:
I though these might just be a European thing.

Image of gauntlet track on Conrail Shared Assets Operations Lehigh Line, at New Jersey Transit Raritan Valley Line. Not too far from me, not 6 rail but it has 4.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I just noticed if you look at the above picture there looks to be switches?
I guess there are different types of Gauntlet tracks?


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## high_beam (Nov 24, 2013)

How's this?


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## high_beam (Nov 24, 2013)

in HO


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I think it would be easier to just add the switches instead of doing that?
It looks like a lot more work?


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Some 0 gauge specific searching turns up a guy with a five rail gauntlet, no track crossing required, just sharing the center of 5 rails. The link is to another forum, so I shall not link, but it's an easy find. 

So there you go, something they could easily do 95 years ago can if fact still be done today.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It is a cool idea, I just think it will eat up too much realestate.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The New Guy said:


> So there you go, something they could easily do 95 years ago can if fact still be done today.


Easily done?
When you do one please post a progress video. 

I still say a couple of anti derailing switches would be way easier to do. :smokin:

95 years ago they ("easily?) built roads like this, would they do this today?


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> Ok, the switches ( with the auto derailing feature) will do all the work for you. Hook um up and the train will activate the switch by itself. It's completely hands off. O27 track has switches with the auto derailingsystem built in and sswitches that doesn't have that feature. Michelle made hers auto derailing. You don't even have to hook up the controllers. It's pretty cool technology from way back when!


I put a reversing loop on the elevated part of my new layout. I had some manual Fasttrack switches and I used them so I didn't have to run a wire up to it and I don't need to switch it, it just picks a loop and comes back around on it's own. 

Very cool, very reliable.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The hand of God works in another way, use a manual switch. After a few minutes of that a remote will be like heaven. 

The only alternative is a single rail with a reverse circuit, for a DC engine or Bump and go with AC.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

The New Guy said:


> So there you go, something they could easily do 95 years ago can if fact still be done today.





big ed said:


> Easily done?
> When you do one please post a progress video.


I was mocking the OP's snarkiness from the first page Ed.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

big ed said:


> 95 years ago they ("easily?) built roads like this, would they do this today?


You know, they should. Prisons are full of people with nothing to do. Make bricks in the winter, make roads in the summer. Repeat ad nauseum.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The New Guy said:


> I was mocking the OP's snarkiness from the first page Ed.


OK, I had to look that word up. 
I would like to see how it is done, looks like a lot of work.

Well....Highbeam, if you do it please take detailed progress pictures.
If you start now maybe you will be done for Christmas.........2014 that is. 

Hay......New Guy, What "other" site is it?
Or better yet PM me a link to it?

I don't see why you can't post it, is it against the "LAW" here? :smokin:

If someone wants to go to other sites their going to go anyway.
Does the site start with an O......or a C??


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The New Guy said:


> You know, they should. Prisons are full of people with nothing to do. Make bricks in the winter, make roads in the summer. Repeat ad nauseum.


Looks like a lot of work.
A few years ago where they still have the old cobblestone for the roads in Newark NJ crooks were stealing them. :laugh:

How the hell can you steal a road and not be seen? :dunno:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed, they wore city of Newark dpw outfits. I think they did it on the weekend. Big trucks and everything. No one even thought about questioning them. That is until some one noticed whole streets gone. That was more then a few years ago! Don't ask me how I know! They didn't even go to jail for it or loose there jobs. Can't get away with stuff like that nowadays.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Ed, they wore city of Newark dpw outfits. I think they did it on the weekend. Big trucks and everything. No one even thought about questioning them. That is until some one noticed whole streets gone. That was more then a few years ago! Don't ask me how I know! They didn't even go to jail for it or loose there jobs. Can't get away with stuff like that nowadays.


You still have some?


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