# "Yardmaster" layout issue



## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and apologize if this isn't in the appropriate location. 
For the past couple months, my son (10 yr/old) and I have been working on or new hobby and have been setting up our HO "yardmaster" layout. We've been using code 100 track with cork roadbed. The track and roadbed have been down for a few weeks and we've just finished the wiring to the terminals (have yet to complete the rail switches) in the past few days. 

Our problem is that the inside figure 8 loop does not work when its connected to the outside track. When it's disconnected, it works well and the train travels as it should but as soon as I connect it at either of the locations it no longer works. I've checked the location of the insulated joiners, I've checked my wiring at the 18" radius terminal, I've tried different engines, I've checked the location of everything as per the layout in the book and I just can't seem to figure out what's happening. 

As I mentioned, I'm new to the hobby and perhaps its something very simple but I just can't seem to figure it out. Is there anyone out there who is familiar with this specific layout or perhaps just familiar with an inside loop connecting to an outside one. I would sure appreciate any suggestions you might have. We want to continue moving forward with the layout but its frustrating when part of it doesn't operate.

Thanks very much in advance.


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## Captain.norm (Jan 2, 2014)

*Yardmaster layout issue*

Not knowing exactly what your layout looks like. It sounds like you may have a short circuit due to the inside figure 8 being a reversing loop. Try insulating the inner loop from the outer loop (put insulating joiners on both rails wherever the outer and inner loops connect). Hook up the outer loop separately from the inner one and see if they both work. You will not be able to go from the inner to the outer without a revering loop control switch. This switch ensures that the polarity between the two are the same.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

It sounds like either a short or a reverse loop. how is the outer loop connected to the figure 8? Also, is the figure 8 an over/under type or a flat 90 degree crossing type?


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

There is no reverse loop in that design. If your insulated joiners are indeed correct, (sounds like the insulators are flipped at one turnout), then verify that the terminal or rail power connectors are the right polarity at all attachment points. If that is good, then you may have a shorted turnout, crossing, selector or something metallic on the track itself. Will the train run on either the 8 or the outside loop if they are separated?


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## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

To my knowledge I believe JerryH is correct in that there is no reverse loop. When the figure 8 is disconnected at the two rail switches it operates very well, as does the rest of the layout. The insulators are as per the book and are definitely on the same side of the track. I've cleaned the track with what looks like a type of stone that I picked up at the hobby store, the X piece in the middle of the figure 8 I assume is alright as it works fine when the 8 is disconnected, my selector switch also seems to function fine again when the 8 loop is disconnected. Therefore, as has been suggested, is it possible there is something wrong with one of the track switches/turnouts? Where else could there be a short?

Thanks again.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Do you have a multi meter? You can test for a short (continuity). Who made the track? Life-Like or Bachmann? IIRC, Bachmann EZ-Track switched will route power. Something could be stuck, causing a short. It sounds like your problem is with one of the switches.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Rob

I can only guess at your actual layout design.

A figure eight is not in itself a reverse loop. However,
If you follow the outside rail on the top end of the 8 you
will see that it becomes the inside rail on the bottom
end. If your turnout connects to your 'outside' oval
from the bottom end, you would have a short circuit.

Therefore, the location of the turnout that connects to
the 'outer' loop must be at a place on figure 8 where the outside
rail and the outside rail of the loop
are the same polarity.

You should be able to resolve the polarity issue by simply
attaching your wires to the tracks so that the outside rail
on the turnout end of the 8 gets the same side of the
circuit as the outside rail of the outer loop. But do keep
the insulators in place.

It would be a big help to have a birds eye pic of
the layout.

Don


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## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm attempting to attach a drawing of the layout which I'm sure will help considerably with suggestions. Obviously, there is a lot of knowledge and experience here. 

rrgrassi - I'm using code 100 track from Atlas as well as Atlas rail switches. If I have defected switches I must have two that are defected because the figure 8 doesn't work with either one or both of them attached.

DonR - I believe my polarity to be correct (please have a look at the drawing) but I could certainly be wrong on that.

Thanks again.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Rob

Where are your connections to the tracks?

If they are ONLY to the Right end of the
figure 8 and you have carefully observed
polarity to it and the main oval,
you should not have a short. For example:
The 'red' wire should go to the outside rail
on both the 8 and the oval, 'black' to the
inside rail of both.

However, the rails in the left end of the 8
are reversed, so if you have a track connection
on it, that is where I would suspect you'll
find your short. To avoid that you would need the 'red'
wire to the inside rail and the 'black'
to the outside rail. At the same time the 'red'
goes to the outside rail of the oval and the 'black'
to the inside rail.

How does that compare to what you have?

Don


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

I take an old car and paint one side red and the other side white.
I then place it on the track red side to the red wire and push it around.
I take notice of how the sides can change as I go around the track.
Take note of the wire color on each track as you move the car around.

You would be surprised how easy it is to cross your wires.


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## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

I think that's it! I'm at work or I'd go try it but I will in a few hours. I was careful to make sure all my terminal strips were wired the same but I think I understand that this particular one should have been opposite. I even checked with an engine to make sure it was traveling the same way as the outside loop and it was, but now that I read this, it actually should have bee going the opposite direction.

That's a very good idea with painting an old car as well.

Thanks very much. I'll be back later today with a result.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

In the drawing, I do not see a reverse loop.


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## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

I think I'm confused again....there is no reverse loop, I know that for sure. So, everything I just said about changing the wire on the terminal in the figure 8 is only applicable if there is a reverse loop...correct? I think I'm back to square one. Damn.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Do you have a multi-meter? You need to test for continuity. Like the red/white sided car, you want continuity from white rail to white rail, and from red rail to red rail. any continuity from red rail to white rail is a short. Check continuity from the wire that is connected to the white rail, to all the "white rail side" sections. Then do the same for the "red side"


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## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

I do have a multi-meter and I will do just as you've suggested later this evening. Thanks very much again.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Rob

No, you do not have a reverse loop. What I said
was based on the absence of one. But the red and white
wires and painted car sides will be just right to clear
it up.

If you were connecting to the figure 8 track on it's left
loop with the same wire polarity as the big oval, that
is your problem, as you said, you would reverse the
wires to the fig. 8.

Don


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## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

ok great, thanks again as well. I'll check everything this evening.
Thanks


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## Rob (Jan 20, 2014)

I just recently made it to the train in the basement and within seconds the problem was solved. As suggested, I switched the wires on the terminal strip on the figure 8 and everything worked immediately. I can't thank everyone enough for their suggestions and the time spent replying to me, it is greatly appreciated by my son and myself. He's extremely pleased it's working as well as we're now on to the wiring of the rail switches.

I looked at the Atlas book we've been using and there's no mention of wiring this one any differently then the rest of the terminals. In fact, it's labeled the same as the other terminals. I wonder if anyone else has had the same problem if they are beginning with this layout. 

In the future, I'll know that no damage can be done by reversing wires and will try that earlier if there's a problem. 

Thanks again.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Glad you got the trains up and running!!!


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