# NCE POWER CAB PROBLEM



## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Well, the other day I was asking you guys about wiring signals but today I would be happy if my trains moved again 

Here's all the info I can think of that you pros need but if not I'll be happy to answer your questions...

1. A while back I was occasionally loosing track power due to an apparent loose connection between the flat cable and the PCP panel. I turned the cable end for end and it's been fine for quite a while

2. Today I began to loose track power intermittently and saw the two engines on the layout were drawing 4 amps when they usually draw about .3 amps! I shut it down.

3. Thinking one engine or the other was responsible for drawing that much I tried one at a time. One engine worked fine when I was able to wiggle the cable and get momentary track power. The other acted strange, it would come to a stop without lowering the throttle, the horn would come on but would not shut off, the bell would not work and I noticed only with this engine the flat cable was warm where I was holding it at the panel.

4. Running one at a time the Power Cab indicated it was drawing the usual about .3 amps

5. Now I can wiggle the cable all I want but have been unable to get even momentary track power.

I just ordered a replacement flat cable. I figured I'd start there because it's inexpensive. I'm hoping that will fix the issues but I'd like to know if anyone has some more insight about this.

Thanks


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

From what you have said, the first reaction is that
you have a shorting in the wiring or track which is
why you were seeing such high amp draw.

You report that singly one loco runs fine but that
the other singly misbehaves.

Have you tested that troubled loco in a cradle off
the track or better on a test track? Often a decoder
will do odd things if it detects defective power such
as you report. 

How does your DCC controller connect to the
track? Is it soldered or, as you seem to say, is there
some sort of 'plug'? 

Don


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks for your reply, Don. To answer your second question first, the track power is supplied by a land line phone type jack (actually I think that's exactly what it is).

Regarding your first question, I have not tested the problemmatic loco on a test track. Unfortunately, now I can't because I have no way to supply power to the layout or a test track.

I could go buy an inexpensive power pack but that would not test the DCC aspects of the loco.

Now I really do have those "spike driving blues" 

Paul


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

pics of your setup please. hard to tell how its all setup with words. are you using a power cab or booters ect. and are you using the right power plugs for that setup right voltages ect. correct cables for said setup. you said land line jack what exacatly is a land line jack. (old school telephone thing )


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Yes, looks like an old school phone jack to me. It's all set up with the equipment right out of the box. It worked fine for almost 3 yrs. Until today. 

I did call NCE customer service also but the person I got was not helpful. He asked me to look at the pins inside the Power Cab and inside the PCP Panel to see if they appeared to be properly aligned. I told him they appeared to be as he described they should be, then he told me "looks can be deceiving" without offering an alternate method to looking to discern if they are aligned. He may not have been terribly bright .


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

There is a plug in the rear of the power panel to which the wires to the track attach with screw terminals. Check those wires for tightness. It is not unusual for them to loosen up in that plug. It's happened to me, and at least one other person on this forum. I would check those wires.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks. I did check those but after your post I double checked...they seem good.

I should receive my new flat wire soon. I'll see if that does any good and let you guys know.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

I have the same set-up..... Doesn't sound like the flat cable to me.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

This uses a 4 pin telephone connector to supply track power?


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Yes. Based on my efforts to figure out the problem I believe it's called an RJ 12 connector.

I don't know if it will help but for $11 it seemed like a good place to start. Worse case, I'll have a spare cable


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

Lemonhawk said:


> This uses a 4 pin telephone connector to supply track power?



No, I'll post a pic of the NCE system in a minute but the Power Cab plugs into Power module as does the 110AC, which supplies DC/DCC to the track via 2 pins

If one loco draws 4 amps, and one draws 300ma, you have a loco problem.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

Attached


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

spikedrivingblues said:


> Yes. Based on my efforts to figure out the problem I believe it's called an RJ 12 connector.
> 
> I don't know if it will help but for $11 it seemed like a good place to start. Worse case, I'll have a spare cable


It's a 6 pin, not 4


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

make sure you are plugged into the left socket.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

Programming Track
* The command station checks for a short circuit on the programming track before
applying power. If your loco has lights or other current drawing devices wired directly
to the track instead of a decoder function output the command station will probably
think is has a short and will say “SHORT DETECTED” each time you start to
program this loco. If you wish you will be allowed to override the short and continue.
This short detection is there to protect decoders from damage if they are miswired.
For this reason we find always try a new decoder installation on the programming
track first instead of putting it directly on the layout. If the programming works the
installation is most likely correct.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

NOTES:
* The Power CabTM will only deliver track power if it is
plugged in to the LEFT socket. Hold the Power Panel so
that the red LED is on the bottom.

* Use only the provided P114 power supply or a voltage
regulated 10-15 VDC supply of 3 Amps or less.

* The flat 6 wire cable carries track power from the Power
CabTM to the Power PanelTM. Use this cable for Power
CabTM operations.

* The 4 wire coilcord DOES NOT carry track power. Use
this cable when you use the Power CabTM as a Pro CabTM
on another system.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

If your Power Cab is saying "Short Detected" and goes away when you remove the Locomotives, you can bet it's a Locomotive doing it. With the Loco's removed, if it's still detecting a short, the troubleshooting is easy. Unplug the track.


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

USE YOUR METER

6 WIRE CAB BUS CABLE WITH RJ-12 CONNECTORS
Pin # Color Description
Pin 1 ....... White .............. Power to track
Pin 2 ....... Black ............... Ground
Pin 3 ....... Red ................... - RS-485
Pin 4 ....... Green ............... + RS-485
Pin 5 ....... Yellow ............. +12 volts
Pin 6 ....... Blue ................. Power to track


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

IF YOU ARE USING THE 4 PIN RJ12, *you will NOT have any power to the track* (as said by the PowerCab manual Page 24)


Don't keep bending and wiggling cables..... You will only succeed in ruining them.


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Emperor of the North said:


> It's a 6 pin, not 4


Thank you for your efforts to help. However, I don't know why you quoted me here...I'm not the one who said it was a 4 pin :laugh:

Also, I agree that wiggling the cables may cause damage but I was testing the the locos one at a time to see which one was drawing so much. Again, testing the locos one at a time, neither drew more than usual.

The flat cable and if necessary the PCP panel can be replaced for a total of about $30. I made a potential cost and potential benefit analysis 

Still not sure what's going on and with no track power I'm stuck for now. Before now I have not needed a separate test track / program track but I think I will do that soon!

Thanks again
-Paul


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Had to jump in here. I've no layout right now. But when I did it was run, too, by a PowerCab..Never had this problem.
As I am not at home, everything trains packed away years now, I can't remember: Aren't the flat cables dedicated to daisy chaining control panels around the layout, and the squiggly cables for the throttles into the panels ? Sorry, maybe I simply have forgotten that the PCab unit does use the flat cable into the main panel. I say this as your pic shows the flat cable between PCab and main panel, instead of the squiggly..But maybe that's correct...M


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## Emperor of the North (Apr 6, 2019)

spikedrivingblues said:


> Thank you for your efforts to help. However, I don't know why you quoted me here...I'm not the one who said it was a 4 pin :laugh:
> 
> Also, I agree that wiggling the cables may cause damage but I was testing the the locos one at a time to see which one was drawing so much. Again, testing the locos one at a time, neither drew more than usual.
> 
> ...



Lemonhawk asked you if it was a 4 pin and you said yes....


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Ok. Let me see if I can get things back on topic. I answered yes meaning that it was a telephone jack. My fault for not clarifying. However, I've said multiple times "flat cable" not coiled cable. Only the flat cable has the two wires to supply track power.

Remember, my layout has worked well for almost 3 yrs (as I said). The Power Cab was set up correctly...I don't know what has gone wrong.

Thanks to all of you for your input. I appreciate it.
-Paul


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

For something that has worked flawlessly for as long as yours has, the simplest malfunction is usually the culprit. The harder part is tracking it down.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

spikedrivingblues said:


> 2. Today I began to loose track power intermittently and saw the two engines on the layout were drawing 4 amps when they usually draw about .3 amps! I shut it down.


i thought the power supply of a powerCab was rated at ~2A. It comes with a p114 power supply rated at 2A. 

Use of ANY other Power Supply is not recommended and will void your factory warranty.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

spikedrivingblues said:


> 3. Thinking one engine or the other was responsible for drawing that much I tried one at a time. One engine worked fine when I was able to wiggle the cable and get momentary track power. The other acted strange, it would come to a stop without lowering the throttle, the horn would come on but would not shut off, the bell would not work and I noticed only with this engine the flat cable was warm where I was holding it at the panel.
> 
> Thanks



the cable should not get warm... you -may- have damaged the cable and / or where it plugs in .. through an over current condition, easiest thing to change is the cable, then go , if necessary, from there


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

wvgca said:


> the cable should not get warm... you -may- have damaged the cable and / or where it plugs in .. through an over current condition, easiest thing to change is the cable, then go , if necessary, from there


Well the new cable should arrive soon. I'll see what happens. If the new cable gets power to the track the question becomes why
did it overheat in the first place 

I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of this eventually


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

I wonder if the problem might not be that red power cable going from the PcP panel to that rerailer/power track?


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

Genetk44 said:


> I wonder if the problem might not be that red power cable going from the PcP panel to that rerailer/power track?


 That's not my setup. Someone posted that picture as an example


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

spikedrivingblues said:


> That's not my setup. Someone posted that picture as an example


Sorry...my bad.hwell:


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

*PROBLEM SOLVED!*

Well, I found the problem.

The new cable arrived and I plugged it in without either loco on the layout. The red light came on to indicate track power but I heard a hum and the Power Cab indicated high current. I immediately unplugged it and tried to find the short.

I finally found one of the feeders I dropped the other day resting on one of my stationary decoders! I have a new rule...attach all wires immediately so they are not dangling.

Not very bright on my part but I feel I got lucky. It seems the only thing that got fried was an $11 cable. Everything is running as it should now.

-Paul


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