# no forward only reverse



## yikes

I have a Lionel Halloween train set. It has the number 31 painted under the cab. It stopped going forward last night,,I was running it slowly. Reverse is working fine. When in reverse the headlight is steady. When trying to go forward the light is not steady. There is no attempt from the engine to move forward. Pushing it by hand has no effect. There are two switches under the cab; they have no effect on forward motion. This set is 2 or 3 years old and has been run maybe 1 hour total. 
This belongs to my wife,,,,,,I broke it. I NEED your help.


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## Reckers

Yikes, I have no experience with Lionel or your specific problem. Others on the site will, though, and I'm sure they'll have good suggestions. That said, I have one to offer. While you're waiting for better advice, clean the rails and the metal wheels of the engine and tender (coal car) with isopropyl alcohol. This will give you a better electrical connection. It's just possible that your tracks are pretty dirty and reversing drives the electrical conducting wheels down into the track, while forward lifts them slightly---dirty wheels or track might be just enough to make a difference. Check back after that and see if the real experts have additional suggestions. Best of luck!


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## T-Man

The engine has an electronic e unit. One switch stops the smoke. The other locks the direction. The switch on the left has to be moved to unlock and then start and stop the engine to go forward.

Manual

8315
This shows a similar engine it is complicated. DON'T take it apart!!!

I worked on one once but I do not remember locking it in reverse but I guess it does. Normally it is locked to go forward.


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## Reckers

T-Man said:


> The engine has an electronic e unit. One switch stops the smoke. The other locks the direction. The switch on the left has to be moved to unlock and then star and stop the engine to go forward.
> 
> Manual


I knew someone with some sense would eventually answer. *L*


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## T-Man

Reckers, don't be shy. Show some S gage. I only have a few engines and a transformer with a red and wood handle.


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## yikes

Guys, thank you for responding. I have the manual and yes the switch does lock it in reverse (it also locks it in forward, it's just that the engine won't move forward,,,so the switch and that part of the circuit works . But with the switch off there is no forward. BTW, it was going forward when it quit running. And now of course it only goes in reverse.
You say do not take it apart.??


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## Reckers

T-Man said:


> Reckers, don't be shy. Show some S gage. I only have a few engines and a transformer with a red and wood handle.


I appreciate the encouragement, but I have no layout and a total of one engine with tender and 9 cars---of the 9, 3 have yet to arrive from ebay. *L* To show you how green I am, three weeks ago, I had no idea what kind of train I had or what scale it was. I thought American Flyer was a name associated with the engine, like the names on WWII bombers.

That said, I can see that something in the "other" section would be better than nothing, and might encourage other S scalers. I've posted pics of my new acquisitions, already, in another thread. When the 3 ebay owes me arrives, I'll run a few lengths of track on the kitchen table and post a few pics. Essentially, I've got most of an old American Flyer "Arrow" train set (I've been doing some research). The last two weeks, I've ebayed my way into a Brownhoist crane, matching boom car, a tool car, and a service car (track cleaner).


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## T-Man

I guess you are Ok then.

I wouldn't mess with the interior. You could break a circuit connection. Just look at the 8351 Thread. Try not to break the top pieces they are not easy to change. 

TUrn off the smoke if you are not using it.
Have fun!!

I will just have to wait more to see some S stuff.
One of the oldest clubs in the counrty is S gage. Originally out of RI but now Mass.


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## Reckers

T-Man said:


> I guess you are Ok then.
> 
> I wouldn't mess with the interior. You could break a circuit connection. Just look at the 8351 Thread. Try not to break the top pieces they are not easy to change.
> 
> TUrn off the smoke if you are not using it.
> Have fun!!
> 
> I will just have to wait more to see some S stuff.
> One of the oldest clubs in the counrty is S gage. Originally out of RI but now Mass.


*LOL*...well, you can see almost half my fleet in the "what have you got that's new?" thread....and, except for the crane, I'm still waiting to lay eyes on all of them, myself!


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## yikes

I guess you are Ok then.

The train will not go forward. Do you have a thought on what might be the cause?


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## T-Man

With the switch in th correct position it should change from forward to reverse evertime you restart the motion. If you get a reverse then a nothing then a reverse. The eunit needs replacing since the forward motion is dead.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> With the switch in th correct position it should change from forward to reverse evertime you restart the motion. If you get a reverse then a nothing then a reverse. The eunit needs replacing since the forward motion is dead.


T-Man I was reading your manual on it and found the following.
A copy and paste,

Additionally, this reverse unit has a “power-up reset” feature. If the locomotive sits without
power for an extended period of time, the reverse unit will automatically reset and start in the
forward direction when the transformer is turned on or “powered up,” regardless of the reverse
unit switch position. If the switch is in the LOCK position, the locomotive will start in the forward
direction and be “locked” there. 

I never screwed around with one of these.
I would suggest bringing it to your local Lionel repair shop. 
I can't help you on the electronic e-units. But it would seem to me that something is wrong with it.

Is the body all cast metal on these engines?


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## T-Man

Well let's take another look.
Ed, they are plastic. Nice find in the manual. I serviced an 8351 once, it has a DC motor with an electronic e unit. I replaced the upper domes for the gentleman who entertains his grandkids. Nice engine I made a video with it.

So Yikes please verify that this is the engine!!!! The engine number is 13 not 31

A couple of different Halloween cars are around. So the model number/engine number is important.

Also does the transformer have a direction button? Use that, intead of the throttle.

Aside from Ed's reset, just try to reverse the wires to the track. It's AC but give it a go. Review the instruction sheet for track set up.
The Lionel dealer is your next stop if all else fails. It should go forward at some point.
All I can do is go to the Lionel website and view the manuals. Currently I have only one engine with the electronic e unit but it's 15 years older.
Let us know.


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## yikes

Thanks guys, it is a metal body and the number is 31 under the cab.
I tried switching the wires with no results. So something in the electrics is bad. Is there a schematic posted somewhere?

edit:Well, I took it apart and found a bad transistor (tip31c) and two wires with burnt insulation. The transistor heated and melted the wires and the black tape that was used to prevent arcing. All I had in my parts box was a tip122, so I'll go to radio shack tomorrow to get what I need.
The train belongs to my wife, she doesn't like me tinkering with her stuff and after 37 years of experience with me, she probably has good reason. But I broke it, so I'll fix it.


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## T-Man

Good for you! 
Remember, if I can start a thread about cleaning wheels, Replacing a transistor with pictures would be even better.
I have never seen a 4-4-0 with a cast body. Interesting.
Some of us enjoy destruction, and a burned anything will get a comment, LOL
You won't find a schematic of the e unit. I looked at the parts and some of the chips are progammable. Liomel would have a general wiring diagram. It would be nice to make one but you have proves that a few parts can be changed.


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## Reckers

yikes said:


> Thanks guys, it is a metal body and the number is 31 under the cab.
> I tried switching the wires with no results. So something in the electrics is bad. Is there a schematic posted somewhere?
> 
> edit:Well, I took it apart and found a bad transistor (tip31c) and two wires with burnt insulation. The transistor heated and melted the wires and the black tape that was used to prevent arcing. All I had in my parts box was a tip122, so I'll go to radio shack tomorrow to get what I need.
> The train belongs to my wife, she doesn't like me tinkering with her stuff and after 37 years of experience with me, she probably has good reason. But I broke it, so I'll fix it.


Nice job, Yikes! I'm impressed!


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## T-Man

I guess it would be one of these.


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## yikes

Well, it worked for 3 minutes. Then the replacement transistors heated and smoked. Shucks. I am not electrical enough to decipher a circuit.

And Tman, this is a 442 engine. The transistors I replaced were down and to the right in your pic. Back to back with the heat sinks showing (tip31c NPN Epitaxial Silicon Transistor). Cost $1.59 each at radio shack. 25 cents anywhere else. But they had them in stock and that is worth a lot.

The good news is that I was running it at about 1/2 throttle and it still overheated. That means that my running it slowly was not the reason. Or at least that's the story I'm telling my wife.


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## T-Man

Something is shorting. Make sure the smoke is off. You can order another unit from a LIonel Service station. Or remove the e unit and use a DC transformer. It has a DC can motor. Maybe a voltage regulator is out? The ic chips run on 5 to 12 volts. Too bad your fix didn't work.

The heat sinks for a t- 120 case cannot touch your metal frame. They should be taped up. That was all I could think of.


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