# Lionel 2245 Texas Special Help & Advice



## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

I want to do some nondestructive rehab. on my Texas Special. The things I would like some advice on are; removing the body from the frame, broken body attachment clip, air horn replacement and frozen motor repair.

A forum search shows Big Ed, in 2010 saying, the body is attached to the frame by a single screw on the front under side, see picture 1. I also see a single clip at the rear of the body/frame that appears to be associated with the chrome rivet head on the rear of the body, see picture 2. The clip is green and located just above the coupler. Just below the coupler the frame is scored like there was a second clip that would be associated with the other chrome rivet on the back of the body. 

Picture 3 shows the broken air horn and the replacements I got from [email protected].

Questions; Am I correct in assuming that I remove the front screw and slide the body forward to disengage the clip and remove the body? Is the broken clip a replaceable item? Since it appears that it's riveted to the body, I think not. The horns appear to be push-in. Is that correct? Any problems with removing the old ones and installing new ones? Any suggestions on how to get the motor working again?

Rather pedantic questions, I know, but I've never worked on this model before so a heads up on unseen problems would be much appreciated. Thanks Doug


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Dug said:


> Questions; Am I correct in assuming that I remove the front screw and slide the body forward to disengage the clip and remove the body?


I don't have a 2245 but I do have 2353s that I've opened up. I believe they are the same. This is the method I've used. Remove the one screw at the front and then set the locomotive upright. While lifting the front of the shell up a bit, pull it forward and the clips will detach from the back of the frame. You may need to wiggle it back and forth a little as you pull.



Dug said:


> Is the broken clip a replaceable item? Since it appears that it's riveted to the body, I think not.


The clips are part of a single bracket that is riveted to the back of the shell. Here is a picture of two of these with rivets.










I don't have riveting tools and have never tried replacing something like this. I'd imagine you could try glueing a new bracket in. You might be able to just one side of a new bracket onto the back of the old one and not have to deal with the rivets.



Dug said:


> The horns appear to be push-in. Is that correct? Any problems with removing the old ones and installing new ones?


The horns are held in by bending the long metal ends against the shell. It should be easy to bend them back out to remove the old ones and then install the new ones.



Dug said:


> Any suggestions on how to get the motor working again?


I'll defer to others on this. The 2245 uses a single motor compared to the dual motors of the 2353. I've had problems with my 2353 motors as well--one runs and the other doesn't--but I haven't tried servicing them yet.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I said that? 

I don't have a 2245, I do have the 211 Texas Special,
I must have looked it up in the book.

Unless I was looking at my 211?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

As long as the shell is secure, I wouldn't worry about the second clip. I have rivet tools, so it would be an easy fix, but without them there's too much risk of slipping and damaging the shell.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Pictures...Paper Clip or Mountain Pictograph*

Thanks to the Saint who changed the file names to photos in my first post. I used the paper clip. Should I have used the Mountain Pictograph? Photo attachments aren't my forte.

I removed the body as outlined by Eljefe. No problems. Some battery acid damage to the chassis. The body hold down clip looks the same a mentioned by Eljefe. I am rivet challenged and a compulsive perfectionist. Maybe for a handsome fee I could persuade Gunrunnerjohn to replace the clips for me if I were to ship him the body and repair parts, return postage paid?

The ears on the air horns look rather robust. I cringe at the thought of damaging the body trying to remove and replace them. Being earitable and hard of hearing, perhaps another *shoutout* to Gunrunner. "Sir, might you consider for a prodigious cash reward, and my undying gratitude, removing my old horn ears and installing new horn ears? The thought of scaring the engine body fills me with trepidation but sight of the imperfection makes my hand twitch with a nervous tick. On the other hand, I have an attached tick that is bleeding me dry. But she is beautiful and I love her very much. 

I was able, after a prolonged struggle, to persuade the motor, begrudgingly, to turn. The gear ratio between the motor and the wheels is about 9 to 1. That and the need for a lube job may explain why it is still difficult to rotate the wheels.

Yes Big Ed you said 'screw'. With a penta-digit post count it doesn't surprise me that you don't remember trivia from 2010.

I'm including some pics. If they show up as file click-ons would some one please give a lecture on what I'm doing wrong?

# 1. broken body clip

# 2. horn ears

# 3. battery acid damage

# 4. horizontal shaft motor. note the owner installed thread wrapping (top left) to quell the flagrant unraveling of the motor wires protective sheath.

Thanks Doug


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well....at least I was right about the shell removal. 

You used the paper clip, after you uploaded the pictures GO BACK TO THE PAPER CLIP AND CLICK INSERT. Then your pictures will be there without having to click on them.
You can go back and edit, open the post delete the pictures there then just click the paper clip and hit insert. If you don't go back the second time they will just get put into the thread like yours are shown.

Horns piece of cake take some needle nose and bend the tabs.
The clips on the back you can probably get a replacement clip but you will have to rivet it in someway.
Unless you drill them out and use some screws?

Is it running? A lot here used regular motor oil 5/20, just a few drops in the right places. Don't worry about any hardened caked on grease the oil will break it down.
But if you can get some Q tips with rubbing alcohol clean out the old gunk as much as you can.
Do you have a Dremal tool? With a fine stainless steel wheel clean all the wheels and the pickup rollers.
You pick up power through the center rollers and the wheels complete the circuit. 
Clean wheels make a happy locomotive.
I guess you have track? Clean that too, no sandpaper or steel wool you need a kitchen green bright boy pad, goo gone is good to use then rinse/wipe it down with rubbing alcohol to make it nice and clean.

Rubbing alcohol = Isopropanol 99% best 91% OK beware of other percentages. Drug store or HD has it, or Lowes.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Paper clip twice*

Thanks Big Ed. So I deleted the old files, opened paper clip, choose files, uploaded, then went back to paper clip, got a drop down that says "insert all". That's easy!

The Air Horn ears..."hand me that refrigerator"... sounds to easy. The tabs are strong and have to pinch the plastic body with out crushing it. I'm reluctant to try for fear of doing more damage than repair. Bending the old ones up sans damage to the plastic body, will be difficult to do,

The rivets on the back of the body clip can be dremaled off. The old clip body would protect the plastic model body but it will take a rivet tool just the right size to reinstall them. May Gunrunnerjohn take mercy on me.

I'm sure with care and cleaning the engine will run. I have transformer and track. Thanks for the cleaning protocols and the caveat about Iso. alcohol %.

Dextron III is an excellent penetrating lubricant. Have you ever heard of anyone using it on model trains?

Thanks Doug


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I would let sleeping dogs lie. The single slip holds it well enough, why take a chance on damaging it?

I would not use transmission fluid for lube, plain 10-30 motor oil works great.

I think if you take flat duckbill pliers to the horn tabs, you can bend them to remove the horns pretty easily.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I would recommend you attach a new clip with machine screws rather than rivets. Much less chance of breaking the plastic. The screws are available with a large head to distribute the screw force over a large area. 

In order to lube the loco, you must remove the motor from the truck. There is a gearbox inside the truck with worm gears and spur gears and bearings. I have a 2333 that someone had filled the gearboxes with grease and it had hardened to concrete. I used WD-40 to soften the grease and brakekleen to remove it. Then I oiled it with 5W-20 motor oil and even oiled the commutator. The engine runs very smooth. If you oil the commutator, make sure you clean the slots or the oil may release the dirt in the slots and the dirt will foul the commutator. No big problem, just clean the dirt out and everything will be fine.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

And here I thought Gunrunner would jump at the opportunity to start his own train repair business!


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

Gunrunner, your'e missing a tremendous business opportunity. Even Eljefe agrees. Removing the horns doesn't worry me as much as replacing them. I'm not sure how to bend the new tabs down with out blemishing or breaking off the silver horn or cracking the plastic body. Perhaps some type of jig to hold the new horn bracket and a method of applying down force on both tabs at the same time. Or just include the new horns in the sale. Great for a do-it-yourselfer like you. Included a pic of a World W twice souvenir that belongs to my father-in-laws' army buddy, whose father brought it home in 1945.

Servoguy. I have considered using screws instead of rivets. That would be an easy repair and re-repairable. I eventually want to sell the A and B units as a set but if I make repairs to the body hold down clips I can't say "all original parts" If I don't make repairs I would have to say "all original parts with a broken body clip". Probably doesn't make a hill of beans difference in the sales price. Guess I'll just throw in the repair parts not installed.

Thanks for the cleaning hints. As has been mentioned by yourself and others, hardened grease on gears, worms, bearings and case. I used carb-cleaner and reassembled with light motor oil.

# 1. motor removed
# 2. grungy worm
# 3. clean worm
# 4. Eye Candy for Gunrunnerjohn


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

On these trucks the brass gear on the axle shows the wear. My 2333 needed them changed. They wear fast once the axle bushing gets worn. I replaced those with bearings. Your motor is newer than mine because of your brush plate. One motor makes it a lot simpler too. The little hole on the transmission side of the motor is for oil.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

*I'll see your eye candy...*










*And in addition, I raise you a somewhat rare Artillery Luger.
*









*I also have lots more chips in my stack, so gamble away. *


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK "stick to trains now". 

You know what is going to happen we will get 1000 pictures of all kinds of weapons now.

Quote """"Trains back to trains"""""""


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Transmission fluid is a great way to loosen sticky lube in bushings, it's thinner than motor oil and it's better for cleaning. It also works good to simply drop a part in and allow to soak if grease is really nasty. 

Carl


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

Awesome!!! I just got Big Edited. Point taken Sir, no more pistol porn. Gunrunner, I fold.

T-man, when I was cleaning the axels I saw that there was some end play, but very little slop. I mean more side to side movement but not much up and down, axel movement. The end play movement is more toward the right side and more on the rear axel. The right rear wheel actually rubs a little on the tranny case. It seems to me that the axel bushing location in the tranny housing is what centers the wheels. Does that sound right? 

Found the oil hole. That's for the motor drive line and not the worm gear in the tranny, right?

The motor turns freely when separated from and the wheels and likewise the wheels will continue to roll for a few turns when I spin them with my finger. When I put everything back together the wheels are hard to turn. I pondered this puzzling phenomenon until suddenly it HIT me. So I picked IT up (my wifes shoe) realizing the lovely Mrs. Doug was calling me to dinner. After much more mulling, muttering and massaging the knot on my head (got to buy that lady some slippers) I came to this convulsion. Gear ratio and and a worm gear are co-conspirators in this conundrum. Energy is best transmitted thru a worm gear in one direction. That is, applying force to the worm to drive the spur gear, works better than if force is applied to the spur in order to turn the worm. Add the 9 to 1 gear ratio between the motor and wheels and that explains why turning the wheels is so difficult.

Kwikster I've had very good luck using Dexton to free rusted on nuts and bolts. It doesn't work as well or as quickly as acetone but it's much less toxic. Apply dextron, heat, let cool, repeat a couple of times and the stuck nut or bolt gives up. The reason I asked about dextron was I wondered if its primary purpose is to transmit energy and lubrication is a secondary quality. Like hydraulic fluid and motor oil. Thanks for looking in.

Thanks Doug

pic. T-man oil hole?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dug, you have not been here long enough to know why I said that.
I wish I had a $1 for all the times I have heard,

" Back to trains now"! :smokin:

Even in the Union Station forum where everything is open for discussion.
Well everything is not open for discussion. 
But I will just say that instead of going into detail and derailing your thread. :smokin:


My comment was directed more to "the other" poster then you.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You got to remove the motor to access the worm.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Lionel TW transformer rehab.*

Thanks Big Ed. I didn't grease the worm gear, just oil. The old grease was caked on and I won't be making any marathon runs with the engine. I'll just include a caveat to the new owner about greasy worms.

I got out my TW transformer and found the power cord is badly deteriorated and needs to be replaced. The rest of the transformer looks to be in very good condition. The handles work properly and are easy to remove. All the nuts are on the power-out lugs on the back of the transformer. 

There a four allen head screws on the top of the transformer case and none on the under side. Is that how I remove the plastic case cover to access the power cord connection? Any hidden problems I need to be aware of? Should I use a three prong replacement cord or does it matter? The old cord is the two prong type. Any extension cord that roughly matches the OEM cord should work, right?

The instruction book says hook the lockon to posts U and A(14V). I don't have any accessories to hook up. I thought I would use 16 gauge trailer lights wire to hook the lockon the the transformer.

Thanks Doug

pic # 1 Transformer top front 
pic # 2 Transformer back


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The four screws on the top remove the whole case. You will, obviously, have to take off the two knobs first. 

I do not recommend three prong plugs as the transformer wasn't designed with that in mind.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Transformer Rebuild, just move on to the next thread, this post is way to long.*

I thought the transformer repairs would be easy. Not so.
The transformer was assembled one hand fitted and soldered piece at a time. Great for reliability but sucks for repairs. The power cable is soldered to the transformer leads and the solder joints are hidden under the support table that holds the forward and reverse/horn levers Pic # 1.

The table that supports the control levers is attached to the base with a hook/like hinge bracket on one end and a bent clip on the other. Pic # 2. & 3.

I couldn't lift the control support because there are short wires soldered in place that wouldn't allow the table to move far enough to see the power cable solder joints. The two black wires and the two red wires. Pic #4. 

My hopes for an easy fix appear to be dashed carelessly on the cold jagged rocks of inexperience and inability.

Time for plan B. Hire the work done. I live in the navel of "remote desolation". Progress, that fickle twit, shunned Owyhee County Idaho. The last 1000 ft of my internet connection is two cans with string tied between them. I did upgrade to kevlar string last fall which brought my download speed up to nearly a kilobyte per day. I solder things together using a hot branding iron and a lead musket ball. It's a day and half buggy ride to the nearest trading post. From there to an actual electrician is another half days hitch hike. No, I do the work or it doesn't get done.

Plan C. Bury the stupid thing in an unmarked grave. To much old junk around here anyway. I wouldn't be in the fix if I hadn't hoard around so much when I was younger.

Plan D. To many beers, forgot plan D, Beer was good, plan probably wasn't.

Plan E. Pig tails!!! Ureka!!! I'll have to deal with the rotted insulation on the old power cable.... heat shrink tube!!! Where there's a half rack of beer there is a way. Heat shrink tape over the deteriorated old insulation on the original power cable which has been shortened for soldering access. Solder then H/S/T the solder joint. Pic # 5

Wire tie the new power cable to the chassis. Pic #6

Reassemble and test. The green power light works. Pic #7.

Train test is next

#1 old power hookup hidden








#2 hook/hinge on control levers support table.








#3 bent ears on control levers support table.








#4 short wires preclude access to power connection solder points. 








#5 H/S/T and solder.








#6 wire tie attaching new power cable to chassis








#7 Power light works.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well................ it looks good with the green light working. 


Drum roll......= train test.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Missing something*

Did you hear about the strip tease artist who had to go thru airport security? She was nervous and dis-dressed. Security didn't find anything on her.

The run test had mixed results. Wouldn't run at first, then for unknown reasons it started running. 

Now it won't reverse unless I take it of the tracks. Transformer reverse lever doesn't work. Starting and stopping doesn't cause a reverse. E-unit lever position doesn't make any difference. Any suggestions???

After repeated viewings of the interior of the engine I deduced there is no noise maker. (horn/whistle). Unexplainable.

Does the E-unit have anything to do with the horn and could a missing horn cause the non reversing phenomenon?

First Pic. E-unit, sans horn








Second Pic. Model Train content. Two 1022 manual switches with red flags and a 6019 uncoupler (bottom center). Flirting with another "Big Education" not a fire arm weapons picture but rather an arm fired weapons picture. Not totally crossing into forbidden post territory but hanging all 8 of my remaining toes and 3 prosthetic ones over the "thou shalt not cross line". Gunnrunner your chips are invalid. I allow you to fold ensanguined.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The missing horn would not affect running, unless someone screwed up the wiring taking it out. The E-Unit and motor is all you need for a running train, just with no sound.

Nice bow, but you won't get close enough to use it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Did you check the dummy unit for the horn? The later F3s had the horn in the dummy unit. For example, the 2353 has the horn in the dummy.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

I believe the 2245 only came as an AB set with the horn in the powered A unit. Those horns don't age well, so I wouldn't be surprised if a previous owner removed it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I just checked the book. The horn should be in the A unit.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

Thanks Servoguy and Eljefe. I am the previous owner. I got this as a Xmas gift in '55 or '56. The train set hasn't been out of its box since 1962. The original transformer didn't work very well so I replaced it with the Type TW transformer I have now. Until I started this rehab. work I had never opened the body on the engine. It was in the Boise Lionel shop in about 1960 for work on the engine. The train shop probably did the same thing I did, clean the worm drive and spur gear and lube the tranny. Don't know what happened to the horn and can't remember if I ever heard it toot.

Symptoms remain the same as in my last post. E-unit switch off, engine only goes forward. It stops when I activate the direction handle on the transformer but doesn't change direction. E-Unit switch on, direction handle stops the engine but doesn't change the direction of travel. If I remove the engine from the tracks and put it back the engine changes its direction of travel. Same thing happens if I remove a wire from the lockon. A double tap, On/Off...On/Off of the speed control handle doesn't change travel direction.

Sometimes the light on the engine comes on but the engine doesn't move. The light varies in brightness corresponding to the amount of power being applied. If I touch/move the engine then apply power it sometimes starts to run.

The plan now is to take the track apart and clean all the pins and holes. Clean the engines wheels again and inspect and clean the lockon. Clean and check transformer lugs and power supply (transformer to lockon) wires. Inspect and clean the E-Unit contacts.

These problems are not 100% consistent. They happen a majority of the time, That makes me think the problems are partly/mostly Operator Error. I'll report back in a day or two. Thanks for your help. Doug


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think you have an E-Unit problem from the description. I'd power the locomotive on the bench with the wheels suspended and closely check the operation of the E-Unit when you attempt to reverse directions. It sounds like the plunger may need a spray of contact cleaner to make it move freely. Do NOT try to oil the plunger!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I think you have a transformer problem. When you disconnect the transformer, the engine changes direction. When you use the direction control on the transformer, it doesn't change directions. It doesn't take much voltage to keep the E unit from operating. Can you put a meter across the transformer with everything connected and verify that the transformer output is actually going to zero when you operate the direction control. Check both AC and DC. If you don't have a meter, Harbor Freight has them cheap, about $4.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Good point Bruce, I was going to suggest a different transformer, but I guess I glossed over the fact that disconnecting reverses it.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Dug said:


> Thanks Servoguy and Eljefe. I am the previous owner. I got this as a Xmas gift in '55 or '56. The train set hasn't been out of its box since 1962.


Well, when I said those horns don't age well, I didn't mean they dissolve into nothingness! 

Had any diesel horn kleptomaniacs roaming around the neighborhood? :dunno:


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Transformer, plunger*

Getting a Hairdryer Through Customs

An attractive young woman on a flight from Ireland asked the Priest beside her, 'Father, may I ask a favour?'

'Of course, child. What may I do for you?'

'Well, I bought my mother an expensive hairdryer for her birthday. It is unopened but well over the Customs limits and I'm afraid they'll confiscate it. Is there any way you could carry it through customs for me? Hide it under your robes perhaps?'

'I would love to help you, dear, but I must warn you, I will not lie.'
'With your honest face, Father, no one will question you.'

When they got to Customs, she let the priest go first.
The official asked, 'Father, do you have anything to declare?'

'From the top of my head down to my waist I have nothing to declare.'

The official thought this answer strange, so asked, 'Well what do you have to declare from your waist to the floor?'

'I have a marvellous instrument designed to be used on a woman, but which is, to date, unused.'

Roaring with laughter, the official said, 'Go ahead, Father. Next 
please!''

Servoguy, I did have a transformer problem when first I tried to test run the engine. There was 120V to the transformer pile that has the speed control rheostat on it and the transformer power light worked . The engine headlight didn't work and there wasn't any voltage (AC/DC) to any of the power out transformer lugs. Disillusioned, disgruntled and declaring copious epithets with sexual conations I declared "get thee behind me disfunction, I'll not have truck with you today". 

Two days later I powered up the transformer again an to my surprise the head light came on and engine moved. Most joyous serendipity smiles on my quest. Or perhaps smirks in my direction. The reverse issue, rearing its scaly reptilian head, takes center stage. Problem conflagration, I am your beatch.

Gunrunner, PLUNGER??? I don't need no stinking plunge... Oh...that plunger...(Pic # 1), lurking surreptitiously under the E-unit. The one that sticks at the top of its travel and is sometimes freed to travel back down by jostling the engine. Like removing it from the tracks. 

Amyloid plaques be darned. I have raised my Model Train knowledge from rock to vegetable.

Eljefe, no horny thieves that I know of.

Thanks Servoguy, Gunrunner, Eljefe. Doug

Pic #1 The insidious insolent interloper.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Did you get it working properly?


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*?????*

Gunrunner. I took the E-unit out of the chassis but didn't disconnect the wires. I see a spur wheel that is turned by a hook which is attached to the E-unit plunger. The plunger moves OK but the spur wheel is a tad stiff. Rotation of the spur wheel looks like it reverses polarity to the motor by changing contact points on the hub of the wheel.

How do I power up the models' motor on the bench. There are three wires leading to the motor, yellow, green and blue. By looking at the E-unit I'd say yellow is common and green and blue determine the rotational direction of the motor. On the motor it looks like green energizes the field and yellow and blue go to the commutator. Does the motor need DC or an AC power?

Thanks Doug


Pic. #1. removing the E-unit









Pic. #2. plunger, hook and spur wheel









Pic. #3. motor wires


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

First off, the E-Unit is a gravity device, so it will only work properly in an upright position. The toothed contact wheel should turn pretty easily, but not be "loose". The plunger should be able to go full travel indexing the contact wheel with around 6-8 volts AC on the locomotive.

I'd mount the E-Unit back into position, and suspend the locomotive on blocks with the wheels free and connect power to the pickup and frame to test.

With the shell off, see if the transformer at medium throttle setting will fully cycle the E-Unit. When power is off, the plunger will drop, and when power is on, the plunger is held into the up position. Each time you interrupt power, the E-unit should cycle and index the wheel one position.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Hay, chain break, Train test excellent.*

Swather broke down in mid swath. The drive chain for the header on my New Holland 910 swather disassociated itself. (broken chain on the right, new chain on the left) Had to make a parts run late yesterday. Replaced the chain this AM and finished swathing the hay. The beautiful and talented Mrs. Doug went with me for parts and we had a nice Mexican dinner at Gadda-La-Hairball in Caldwell Idaho.









Hey man, "*what is this thread about anyway*?" Are we there yet?

I reinstalled the E-unit and tested the engine. Everything works well. The engine reverses direction with a speed control lever on-off, on-off and with a direction control lever double tap. Disabling the E-unit keeps the engine moving in the direction it was moving when the E-unit was turned off. I put a couple drops of light petroleum lubricant on the motor drive shaft and the spur gears that turn the worm drive. Thanks Gunrunner for the test bench hook up help.









I think my transformer problems were an illusion. Mis-measruement on my part most likely. Loose connections at the lockon, the transformer lugs or the meter leads. The transformer works correctly now.

Hey Mr. Moderator, please add LOCKON to the spell check vocabulary. It always comes up as a misspelling.

Thank you everyone for all your help. Doug


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You might want to use motor oil, 5/10W-20/30 to lube the loco. It doesn't dry out and get hard or gummy. I have used it for 50+ years. The oil in the pin oiler is probably going to get gummy in less than a year.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sounds good, glad you got it all running again.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Motor oil, uncouplers*

Servoguy, Agreed, done. The stuff I used is an extremely light oil used in pneumatic nail guns. It won't gum up and is compatible with all kinds of gaskets and oil seals. I reapplied a single drop of 10W-30 motor oil to the motor shaft oil hole and three drops to the spur gears. Noticeable reduction in drive train noise.

I got out my 6019 remote control uncoupler/unloader. The front coupling on the engine works but I wonder "do I need to oil it". Looks like it operates the engine front coupling by making contact between an "off center slider" on the front engine trucks and a bulge in the center track on the 6019 uncoupler. It won't work unless the speed control is on and the engine is moving or if the speed control is in the on position but the E-unit is between forward and reverse. Pics # 1 and # 2 

Pic # 1 Engine truck electrical contact









Pic # 2 6019 uncoupler bulge 








Some of the cars have minor coupler issues. The 6561 flat car, Pic # 3 has one coupler with a misaligned index pin. I can force (gently) the pin into its hole but it won't uncouple with the remote controls electro magnet and the coupling springs are not functioning on either end of the car. Is there a fix for coupler disfunction?









Thanks Doug


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When I've found cars with the pin misaligned, I use my needle-nose pliers to bend them back into shape. 

The uncoupler on the locomotive actually works by contacting that extra short rail, not the bulge in the magnet housing. It actually connects voltage through that rail to the coil, and the other end of the coil is grounded to the truck frame and then to the outside rails. Since it's track powered, it can only function when there is track power, which you have already discovered. Do NOT oil them, I'd recommend dry lubricant on them. Graphite works well, but it's a bit messy.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

New Holland 910 swather ?

Don't look that new to me. 
OK, what does a "swather" do?

Your pictures are great nice and clear I wish mine came out like yours. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Couplings, Haying*

Thanks Gunrunner, I thought it was just that simple, but the pin doesn't look bent and I wondered if it could be an alignment problem caused by the base the pin is attached to. Aren't the couplers supposed to have a spring to flip them open when the uncoupler pulls the pin down? The couplers look like they are riveted together and I can't see how I could get a new spring in there. Looks like the entire coupler is riveted to the trucks.

Indeed the offset short rail opens the front engine coupling. "Dry lube", seems like that has been said before about smooth couplings. 

Big Ed, My machine has been around the field a few times. A swather or windrower cuts the hay and piles into a windrow so it can dry and then be picked up by a baler and compacted into bales. 

After you said *paperclip* enough times I finally got the picture. I had to wait a long while for some civilian to drive by to add a little background action to the pic.

Thanks Doug

Pic # 1 cut alfalfa hay in windrows


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lionel couplers have a knuckle, spring, and a rivet. You have to remove the old rivet, I do it by crushing the bottom crimp if possible. If not, then you may have to drill it out. You can then put the new spring with the existing knuckle with a new rivet and set the rivet.

Lionel also has a plastic knuckle with a build-in spring that's easier to use, but they go bad after a few years and have to be replaced.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hay ,Hay, Hay, can you tell I never worked on a farm? 

Looks like a fun job just riding around on the tractor, no traffic to hassle with. :thumbsup:


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Doug,
It looks like the couple is bent upward. It must be horizontal, parallel to the track. When you bend it, take needle nose pliers and grip both the coupler and the steel piece it is mounted to. If you try to bend the coupler without gripping the mount, you will remove the coupler from the mount and then there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. After you do this, the pin should align properly.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*Rivet, Edition, Bending*

Gunrunner, absolutely* riveting * post. I will (not right now 'cause...It's BEER thirty) make a written inventory of the cars with dysfunctional couplers. [email protected] order up. I'll have to take the trucks off the cars to replace the couplers, correct? I don't suppose the couplers come already assembled do they?

Hay Big Ed. I'm curious, how many Big EDitions of "how to post pictures have you generated? Do you ever feel like, "Hey Dumb ADZ one more stupid question about pictures and I'm going to stick my foot thru your monitor and kick you AXE up between your ears so you can share my splitting headache". Thanks for looking in. Your bark and byte.....always in-form.

Servoguy, thanks for the heads up. Perhaps you have experienced said "weeping and gnashing". I stand on the shoulders of giants.

Thanks everyone for being blather tolerant. Doug


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, I don't take the trucks off the cars to replace the coupler springs/knuckles. I just remove the rivet by one of several methods, then install the new parts and set the rivet.

I confess that I have this toolkit for riveting, it allows me to do all sorts of jobs that I otherwise would probably pass up. I used to do coupler repairs with a point punch and hammer, but I needed three hands, which I didn't come equipped with.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, I have found that the newer plastic couplers with the built in spring do not fail. The older ones all fail. I have some cars with the plastic couplers with the built in springs that work just fine.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bruce, they'll fail after a few years, the plastic takes a set. I agree for a few years they work fine, it's long term that they fail.

I've replaced many of the failed ones with a diecast knuckle and spring. I expect them to be working when I'm not.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

At some point, Lionel was making wire springs that had a high failure rate. Many of the post war cars that I own have broken springs. I usually don't bother to replace them. Usually if one spring on a car is broken, the other one is, also. I assume they put some bend in the wire that made a stress riser which caused the failure.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Although I've seen broken springs, I've seen WAY more bad plastic springs than the real springs. I have MANY old PW cars with original springs, but I have a lot fewer MPC or even "modern" cars with original plastic springs.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the quality of the plastic spring units.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I just checked a Borden tank car that was bought new in 1975. It has the plastic springs, and both of them are still perfect. G.A.T.X. 9154. Checked another tank car GRCX 6315. One plastic spring is gone, the other is very weak. Checked a 6112 gondola. Both plastic springs are OK. Checked a 6736 hopper. Both springs are OK. Checked a 6142 gondola. Single coupler. Knuckle is plastic, but spring is metal, probably beryllium copper. The spring didn't work until I bent it back to the right position. Checked another 6112 gondola. Both springs are OK. Checked a 6130 work caboose. Single couple. Spring is OK. Checked a 6822 searchlight car. Single couple. Spring is broken.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

No offense Bruce, but you're a sample of one. If you're happy with plastic knuckles/springs, enjoy. For any cars I plan on using for any length of time, they'll be getting real springs.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I didn't drag out all the cars I have as that would take a few days. I agree a steel spring is probably better since apparently the new ones don't fatigue and break. But the evidence indicates that there are different kinds of plastic springs, some of which I expect to last indefinitely. The Borden tank car is now 36 years old, and the springs work perfectly. I expect that the new plastic knuckles are of the same quality, but only time will tell this.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

I have the same Bordens tanker and neither spring works on the coupler. All of my postwar cars function properly.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Carl, if all of your postwar cars work perfectly, you are indeed fortunate. I would estimate that about half of mine have broken springs, and I have owned most of these cars since the mid '70s. 

When was your Borden's car made?


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Great, long, thread w/lots of good info. for postwar guys like me. Dug, man you are a funny dude, so keep sharing your good nature with us. I'm at an age and stage where I appreciate all efforts and styles when they're essentially positive. Guys will take swipes at each other occasionally without real cause, and that stops a lot of goodwill. I love this site, so I'll chime in with what I can spare in a positive vein, and if sometimes I'm misunderstood, oh well, maybe it's not me!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dug said:


> Hay Big Ed. I'm curious, how many Big EDitions of "how to post pictures have you generated? Do you ever feel like, "Hey Dumb ADZ one more stupid question about pictures and I'm going to stick my foot thru your monitor and kick you AXE up between your ears so you can share my splitting headache". Thanks for looking in. Your bark and byte.....always in-form.


Never, I am always glad to try to help.
I meant it your pictures come out nice, nice and clear I only wish I could take pictures like yours. 



gunrunnerjohn said:


> No offense Bruce, but you're a sample of one. If you're happy with plastic knuckles/springs, enjoy. For any cars I plan on using for any length of time, they'll be getting real springs.


I have a few weak couplers, but most of mine work OK.
You guys keep saying plastic springs? 
I never knew there was such a thing?


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you Gentlemen one and all. Astute, cogent, informative posts. I am honored to have so much discussion surface in this thread.

The truth must out. I am an obsessive compulsive control freak with a large red USDA grading stamp, "OEM" stenciled on my meat brain. A ridiculous bent, but by some definition are not we all in some way a tiny bit twisted? You know the drill "it's perfect or it's wrong".

I want to return the broken couplers to historically correct original condition, metal couplers with a metal springs. "Historically correct original condition" can I say oxymoroon, (pronunciation not spelling). Tilting at windmills has its own off camber rewards, none of which are defined by Wikipedia. 

[email protected] order up.

Big Ed I use a Nikon coolpix camera with auto focus. I use the closeup feature and set the ASA to at least 400. I compose the photo in the view finder, then pick a flat area that exemplifies the context of the photo, half press the shutter button to actuate the focus then return the view finder to the original composition. Forcing the auto focus to key on a distance to something in the picture that you want to be in focus ensures that the camera won't go wonky and focus on the back ground or foreground. Higher ASA indexes the shutter speed and forces a flash on most indoor pics. The flash or the fast shutter speed helps reduce old man hand shake and makes the pics clearer even at 480 X 640. If you're feeling calm a shutter speed of 125th of a sec. works but 250th of a second is better at reducing ones digital quiver. Depth of field in closeup photos is really snivelly, 1/4 to 1/2 inch makes all the difference between good and whiney.

Thanks all Doug


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here you go, plastic couplers. These, IMO, are junk.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Dug, I don't think that a fast shutter speed gives the best depth of field. The larger the f number of the lens, the better the depth of field, but large f numbers imply slow lenses which require slower shutters.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

My Bordens car has the 1-75 date on it, have owned it since new either '75 or '76. Most of my postwar stuff has been in the family since new. Even items I've purchased from e-bay work. I should also clarify, I have a couple coil activated couples yet untested. 

Carl


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Apparently Lionel may have had some quality issues when they made the couplers. It is odd that mine work like new, and yours are no good at all.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

Servoguy, You are correct. Shutter speed, of itself, does not affect depth of field. I edited my previous post to correct my error.

I force the camera to use a fast shutter speed to compensate for hand shake and the camera decides how much light and what aperture to use. I just accept the corresponding depth of field. 

On the 7 rolling stock cars I have, only four couplers need the springs replaced. 

Thanks Doug


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

I've encountered lots of bad couplers, mostly in 70s to early 2000s stuff.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dug said:


> Big Ed I use a Nikon coolpix camera with auto focus. I use the closeup feature and set the ASA to at least 400. I compose the photo in the view finder, then pick a flat area that exemplifies the context of the photo, half press the shutter button to actuate the focus then return the view finder to the original composition. Forcing the auto focus to key on a distance to something in the picture that you want to be in focus ensures that the camera won't go wonky and focus on the back ground or foreground. Higher ASA indexes the shutter speed and forces a flash on most indoor pics. The flash or the fast shutter speed helps reduce old man hand shake and makes the pics clearer even at 480 X 640. If you're feeling calm a shutter speed of 125th of a sec. works but 250th of a second is better at reducing ones digital quiver. Depth of field in closeup photos is really snivelly, 1/4 to 1/2 inch makes all the difference between good and whiney.
> 
> Thanks all Doug





servoguy said:


> Dug, I don't think that a fast shutter speed gives the best depth of field. The larger the f number of the lens, the better the depth of field, but large f numbers imply slow lenses which require slower shutters.





Dug said:


> Servoguy, You are correct. Shutter speed, of itself, does not affect depth of field. I edited my previous post to correct my error.
> I force the camera to use a fast shutter speed to compensate for hand shake and the camera decides how much light and what aperture to use. I just accept the corresponding depth of field. Thanks Doug




That is why mine don't come out as nice, most of the time I just tun it on and shoot a picture.
That is when I am driving. 

When I am taking still shots, I try to adjust the lights around the area, and sometimes fool with the different settings, but mainly I just turn on the camera and shoot.

Thanks for the info, it won't help me.  
You do all of that just to take a picture of your locomotive sitting there all apart too? 

I need to sit down for a week and figure out how my camera's work.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

I took some coupling closeups using Red Neck photog equipment. I have a much better feeling about being able to remove the rivet, however any one who has a caveat or a rivet replacement story please mention it.

Big Ed, servoguy busted me fair and square. I spent 45 min. trying to dig myself out of a hole that just kept getting deeper. Then it hit me, (not my wife's shoe this time) "stay on topic ya dumbaxe, get back to trains". I got Kodachrome in my blood. I used to push B & W 400 ASA film to 1600 ASA to make grain pop out in the negative. Fun stuff. 

Your camera is your friend, it just speaks a different language.

Pic # 1 Red neck closeup equipment









Pic # 2 A bit closer with camera zoom









Pic # 3 ZOOM IN please









Pic # 4 Flash on, more light smaller aperture more depth of field for clearer pic









Thanks Doug


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

*One more coupling shot*

Different style of coupler mechanism. Has that little convenience tab that covers the underside of the coupling where the rivet is. Will that cause replacement problems? 










Thanks Doug


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Is the coupler loose? The couplers are die cast zinc, and if the car is dropped on the coupler, sometimes the rivet is damaged. If I want to fix one that is loose, I remove it from the mount and drill out the rivet for a 4-40 screw. Getting the screw in is a little difficult, but you can bend the coupler for screwdriver access.


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## Dug (Jun 9, 2013)

Servoguy, all the couplers are tight and function but I have 4 that need new springs. I'm waiting on an order from [email protected] now. Contemplating your 4-40 screw, instead of rivets, idea. 

In post 40 I showed a bent coupler pin. I straightened the pin but it still didn't work quite right. In your last post you said "dropped on the coupler" so I checked the recalcitrant coupler/pin again and low and behold, both the coupler and the pin had been bent. Dropped, no doubt, by some nervous little pecker head kid in a hurry (me). I just didn't notice it when I realigned the pin. I bent the coupler down a little and, christian cigarettes, Holy Smokes, the hole lines up perfectly and the coupler works great. Well still needs a spring, but it works smoothly now. Thanks for the help.

Thanks, Doug


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The 4-40 screw is used when the entire coupler has come loose from its mount. When you replace only the knuckle, then you use the rivets you get from Jeff. BTW, I don't set the rivet with a tool. I just squeeze the end of it slightly with a pair of pliers. It doesn't take much of a squeeze to keep the rivet from falling out. Then if I ever want to remove the rivet, it can be easily removed.


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