# Con-Cor Poor Customer Service & Quality Control



## mapper65

Hello everyone, I'm new on the forum but I've been a long time collector. I've been really frustrated by my recent experience with Con-Cor and I was hoping to get some feedback from others. I don't think I've ever run into a company that is so complacent and wanted to see if anyone else has had this same experience. 

About a year ago I purchased a Con-Cor PCC streetcar. This was my first Con-Cor product. I wanted to install a sound decoder in it and they had recommended a certain Digitrax model on their site. I wasn't too worried about the electrical part of the installation being that I have a good number of them under my belt. What concerned me was the physical limitations inside of the unit. I could get the decoder inside of it but was a little concerned about the limited space and how tightly it fit. Being that they had talked about installing this decoder on their site I figured that I would send them an email and ask a few questions so I could install this decoder properly in one session rather than keep opening and closing the the thing up. I kind of questioned how many times I might be able to remove one of the screws before it would strip being that it seemed stripped when I took the screw out for the first time. 

Anyway, I sent Con-Cor an email and almost instantly received a canned response saying something like it can take 12 to 15 days to answer an email. The same message also mentioned that if you had ordered something, don't call them during the first 3 weeks because it can take them that long to ship and if you call it will slow your order down and also the orders of other people. As a new Con-Cor customer that canned email almost seemed like a slap in the face right off the bat. 

I never received a reply from that email and even though it said it could take up to 15 days, I sent another email about 3 or 4 days later because I wanted to get this trolley buttoned up. I gave it a few more days after that and still no answer. I gave them a call and was told that the person that I needed to talk to was busy doing something with a new product and it could take him a few days to get back to me. I gave them a few more days and still never heard anything back from them. I called in again and within a few minutes time I was put through to a guy named Vinny. He was very helpful and explained what their resolution was for installing the decoder. I may previously have forgotten to mention what I felt the limitations were and it was that the decoder could pretty easily get wedged up against the drive shaft. Vinny explained that they were making a little A-frame piece that would keep the decoder from dropping down onto the drive shaft and gave me a good pointer on how to make one like they were using when they installed the decoder at the factory. Problem solved, but I was going on two weeks from my initial email to the company. I thought maybe this was a rare instance although I had read a few horror stories on the web during the time of waiting to hear back from them. 

Let's move ahead almost a year. A little over 3 weeks ago I stopped at a train store about an hour from my house on the way home from a short vacation. This store had one of the Con-Cor PRR HO Aerotrains in their case. As soon as I saw it I pretty much knew that I would like to buy one. Instead of just buying it, I continued on home and decided to see if I could find better pricing online and also see if I could find the 3 coach add on sets so that I could have the entire consist. It turned out that I was able to find a similar price to what I saw at the store which would save me from driving an hour and not having to pay tax. This dealer also had two of the 3 coach add on sets in stock. I placed the order and a few days later everything arrived. 

I opened up the starter set and the first thing that I noticed was that one of the windshield wipers was missing, the side mirrors or small very small glass windows were laying loose in the bag. I kind of wrote that off to being bounced around in either shipping from Con-Cor to the dealer or shipping from the dealer to me. I did find the other wiper also in the clear bag that the engine was in. It could probably have been glued back on but I'm not so sure about the side mirrors/windows.

Upon further inspection the engine had marks all over it like the finish was not dry and the windows looked like they were either stress cracked or maybe the glue that they had used to secure them had affected the clarity of them. The observation car also had also had marks on the top of it's roof. Had some of these marks been in different places I may have thought that this could have been used but I could tell by the packaging that this was the first it had been out of the bags and at least the marks on the top of the roof really could not have been put there by use being that there are some items on the roof that would keep just about anything from touching that part of the roof in those positions.

I sent an email to the dealer that I bought it from and within 20 minutes he actually gave me a call on the phone. He told me that he didn't have anymore and if I wanted to send it back for a refund that would be fine. I told him that I would get in touch with Con-Cor because I thought that they would probably make it right. At the time I had forgotten about my previous dance with them. I sent them an email which included the same photos that I have included in this post. Just like a year ago I received the fateful email that soon reminded me of my last go-round with trying to get in contact with them. Being that I remembered that I had problems with them in the past I waited a few hours and tried calling them. I tried about 7 times over a two hour period and received busy signal every time. I couldn't tell you the last time I received a busy signal calling a company. I waited a little while longer and on about the 8th try I got through. The person that answered sounded a little distraught but after explaining my problem I really felt like they really had a handle on the situation. I thought the easiest thing for both of us would be for them to just send me a new body shell. This person said "I'll have to try and see what we have in the back and I'll try and get back to you today but it might not be until tomorrow." Then said, "We are really short staffed more than normal right now. We hire a certain nationality worker (I'll leave the ethnicity out of this) and this family that we have working for us had a family member die and a bunch of them are off for a few days, possibly longer." This person had taken my name and number down and even repeated my number back to me. I thought this experience would be different than the last. I gave them a week and never heard anything back and also never received a reply to my email that I had sent first.

I started thinking about this and wasn't sure how long I would have to return this to the dealer so I got in touch with him and told him that I was going to send the starter set back but keep the 2 add-on coach sets hoping to find another starter set. At the time I had forgotten about the original one that I saw in the train store an hour from my house.

When I remembered about that one I called the train store up and told him my dilemma about the poor condition of the one that I got from the first guy and asked him if he could check the set that he had to see if it was in better shape. He did it while I was on the phone and said that the engine had one mark on the hood and based on my description of the first one didn't sound nearly as bad and he also said one of the windshield wipers was lying loose in the bag. I asked him to hold to for me and a drove an hour to pick it up. When I got there, yes there was a mark on it but it wasn't too tho bad. One of the little side micro/windows was also missing but they are pretty small and not too noticeable. It was acceptable but I would have much rather the mark not been on there and the little wind in tact. I had mentioned to the guy at this train store that I didn't know the first company that I purchased from and if I found out that the guy was going to give me trouble in returning it for credit after nearly two weeks, if I bought his and the first guy was going to make me take a credit rather than a refund, could I return the one that I was about to buy. I really wasn't prepared to have $600 some dollars tied up in two starter sets, especially $300 some in a sub par model. He said that would be fine and he understood my situation.

So with the first set on its way back to the dealer I took my chance that the guy was going to give me a refund so I opened up the newly purchased set and put all of the coaches on the test track to see if they would light. I forgot to mention that I did the same thing with the first set and the coach sets that I bought and all of the cars would light up sitting by themselves on the track except for the observation car. The only way it worked was by connecting it to one of the coaches which is typically how it would be run anyway. I just thought that was kind of strange that it didn't light on it's on being that it has wheel pickups on it like the other coaches.

Well, when I put these coaches on the track they all lit with the exception of the observation car and again, it had to be plugged into one of the coaches. It almost sounds like their original wiring diagram was wrong and they were all wired the same way. There is a 8 conductor connector between each car along with the wheel pickups so there should be more than enough connections for the observation car to light on it's own and receive power for the two tail lights and the interior lights. Not sure why this car is powered differently than the others but as I had already stated, you would typically have the observation car connected so I guess it wasn't too big of deal.

Being that I run DCC my next move was to install a decoder in the Aerotrain. When I took the shell off as described on their website, it came over very easily and the first thing that I noticed was that the inside of the shell is cracked in two places near one of the details that are shown on the outside of the roof. The cracks are not through the roof but I expect after some vibration it may not be long before they go a the way through the roof. At that point I had pretty much had it. Here I was more than two weeks after my initial contact with Con-Cor. No response from my email or my contact with the nice person that was going to call me back by the next day.

It didn't take me long to find out the the president of Con-Cor's name was Jim Conway and also what his email address was. Surely any business owner that is having this many problems with his company would be interested in knowing this and would personally want to take care of my problem.

I typed a similar message to what I have written here and even received an automated reply from Mr. Conway's email account saying that he reads every one but can't respond to all of them. It's been a week since I sent that email which included pictures and going on three weeks since I talked to the person at Con-Cor and no response from anyone. Now if Mr. Conway reads all of his emails and chose not to respond to mine, that just shows what a bad business man that he is.

I really get the feeling that these guys are much more interested in shipping products and taking money than dealing with any issue that comes up with a product of theirs. Could you imagine being in a business that you just have to get stuff out the door and then after that you don't have any responsibility for it. I would have started a business like that along time ago if I didn't care about people and their satisfaction with the product or service that I was offering to them

Now I really don't care if Mr. Conway is hiring these foreign laborers at his company but it raises the question if he is running his company on a shoe string budget sitting back fat and happy while paying his people a minimal amount of money to sell people like us an unsatisfactory product. How hard is it to respond to a phone call or an email? Surely I'm not the only one that has been subject to these poor customer service issues and quality controls problems. All I was looking for was to receive a good quality product for the money that I was spending. I can't think that was too much to ask. It's my person opinion based on this experience that I will never buy another Con-Cor product.

I'm not saying that I've never had any quality control issues with other train products but in every case my problem was resolved to my satisfaction in a timely manner. I had an issue with an Accucraft product and they paid for shipping on a very heavy product in both directions and turned the product around in a few days. I once received a Bachmann G scale engine that the wheels were green like they had gotten wet and the metal had a large amount of green flaky patina on them that had eaten into the paint. They sent me a replacement engine and said to keep the old one for parts in case I ever needed something from it. That was with one phone call, the first and only phone call.


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## tjcruiser

Mapper,

Sorry to hear of your frustration. I have no experience with Con Cor, but just wanted to say that your post above (though lengthy!) was well-crafted and painted a clear description of your experiences.

Good luck in your hunt for some resolution from Con Cor.

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

I just watched a video of their New Haven Comet which is still in production and it seems poorly done at best. It was done with Windows Movie maker which is not something a pro company uses. The narrator also stuttered on some parts of the video and their were also repeated slides in the video which should not have been allowed. 

Then there is the part of their page where they explain there making process and possible delays. No other company explains the process and delays that take up their time. They just give you a release date and a rendering of the engine. This seems like a more professional aproach and if they have a delay they simply move its release date back. they also don't use economical down times to jsutify needing a lot of preorders like Con Cor does which I do not feel is professional. 

Now with that said I do not own any Con-Cor but am planning on buying there Mp51 cars in Pennsylvania road once they are released. I am not sure if i will have the same problem but they are the only ones making this nice model and i plan to sue it as a subway on my layout when it is released.


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## Reckers

Mapper65, 

Welcome to the forum; I'm sorry that it was a *BAD EXPERIENCE WITH CONCOR* that brought you here. Unfortunately, some companies are unresponsive to complaints from individuals. I think telling your story on sites like this is one of the two best things you can do when you can't get satisfaction from the company. When companies like *CONCORS WON'T STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCTS*, it's always possible they'll change their mind when it's posted in a public forum. Otherwise, future buyers might begin to believe *CONCORS SUCKS* and choose to *NEVER BUY CONCORS PRODUCTS.*

OF course, the other solution is to *VISIT THEIR FACTORY WITH A CAN OF GASOLINE AND A BOX OF MATCHES,* and enjoy the crackling of a warm fire on a cool Indian Summer night!

Again, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience---perhaps fewer people will buy from them, in the future.

My condolences,


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## Gansett

Pete V said:


> Sometimes we envision these manufacturers as having giant facilities and when the truth comes out, it's actually a two car garage with an injection molding machine and a spray booth made from a garbage can.
> 
> Good Luck


More truth than fiction in your statement. I know a guy who did just that in his garage making fishing lures, just did the injection molding no paint.


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## sstlaure

Off your meds Reckers?


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## tjcruiser

sstlaure said:


> Off your meds Reckers?


Sounds like Reckers is organizing an Occupy Con Cor protest!


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## gunrunnerjohn

I wonder if the large type shows up first in the search results?


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## sstlaure

The 1% control all the good train stuff....It's unfair I tell you!

I think it's great that Con cor still builds at least some of it's stuff here in the US. I'd love to know which models as I'd prefer US made vs imported.



On topic.....maybe this will help

http://www.con-cor.com/roundhse/riptrack.htm

_Con-Cor dDOES NOT maintain a general repair department for model trains. If you have an older train that requires service / repairs we suggest you contact a local hobby shop or model railroad club and see if they know someone who can do repairs / service for you. We are more than happy to sell them the necessary parts (if available) as outlined below. 

Con-Cor does have a customer satisfaction policy which means that if you have bought one of our products within the last 30 days and find a problem, we will be happy to fix or replace that product for you. All you have to do is call our office at (520) 721-8939 and asked about the problem. If it is sometime that we can fix easily (such as a missing part/ broken coupler etc)..we can mail it to you right away. If it seems to be something more complex you will be given a return authorization number and asked to return it, together with the receipt from whom you purchased it showing the purchase date,to us via insured mail or UPS. (We will not accept returns without a return authorization number.) We also can not be responsible for damage to models that have been returned to us uninsured. 

Then we will be fix or replace the item for you and return it as soon as possible. (Allow at least 3-4 weeks turn around time. Some repairs may take much longer.) 

The above policy has been a result of our company receiving many "claims" and "returns" for merchandise that was purchased used from a private party, train flea market etc. and the new owner tried to get us to replace or fix the used merchandise....that you for your understanding in this matter. _

Con-Cor International,Ltd.
8101 E. Research Court
Tucson, Arizona 85710 USA
Phone 520-721-8939
Fax 520-721-8940


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## Reckers

I just thought I'd help by making a synopsis of the earlier post. You can all thank me later.


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## gunrunnerjohn

There are three sides, your side, my side, and the truth.


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## mapper65

I'd really like to know what their side of the story is. I've even sent the owner of Con-Cor my cell phone number. We're going on 3 1/2 weeks now and I've never received a reply to any of my emails or phone calls.

I have to believe that these guys are about to go out of business or maybe having financial troubles. I've never run into a company that just doesn't care. I think when you are at the point of not caring about the people that buy your products, it's time to close the door.


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## xrunner

Not to (completely) judge a book by it's cover ... but their website is really cheesy and lame. I can and have designed better looking websites for a friends business.

If I saw this and was thinking about ordering from them, I'd think twice, personally. To me it is a reflection of their business, and this reflection isn't pretty.

http://www.con-cor.com/


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## mapper65

Here is what their automated response looks like. It's interesting how they are trying to sell you products but they basically don't have time to answer any questions.


We have received your Email regarding: PRR HO Aerotrain Poor Quality.


If you have placed an order for regular merchandise allow about 12-15 working for processing. 


If a General inquiry, it may take 12-15
days to respond, we are a small
company and can not respond to all
incoming Emails immediately, our
priority is shipping orders, and we 
attend to Misc. Email Inquiries on days
we are caught up with the orders.


Pre-Orders will be entered into our
system and you will be notified when
any Pre-Order items arrive to our
warehouse and ready to ship.


This is an automated response as we do not have enough time to reply to each E-mail received individually. 


Please read the following as it will answer 85% of the questions you might have E-mailed us about. 
Questions not covered on the FAQ page we will answer by hand as soon as time permits. 


All of these extended replies can be found at this website address:


http://www.con-cor.com/webFAQ.html


The numbers shown below match the
ID numbers on the above webpage.
Just click to the webpage above and
look for your subject # as listed below.


#01) Business Hours,/ How to Order
#02) Auto Reply details
#03) Order Processing Time Table
#04) Order Delivery Time to Your door
#05) Close Out Items
#06) Email Replies (include thread)
#07) Item In, or Out of Stock
#08) Pre-Orders / New Items
#09) Parts, Repairs, Returns
#10) Unsolicted Returns
#11) Print Catalogs
#12) Register for our E-Mail Newsletter
#13) Con-Cor and DCC installations


Latest info on New Items:


"HO" PCC Cars, new Cities due April


"HO" PCC Railbus, new model, due April


"HO" Branchline-Commuer-Suburban cars
First roadnames due late April




HO M-10 City of Salina "In Stock"
Extra cars for above "In Stock"


"N" M-10000 (1934 Paint) "In Stock"
Extra cars for above "In Stock"


N AeroTrains (In stock)






HO / HOn3 Pierce Arrow Goose
-Tourist Version, now instock
-DCC sound decoder also avail now

HO / N 2HL Zephyrs (2011)


The Current Sale Email Flyer can be
accessed by accessing the following
web page:
http://con-cor.com/HtmEmail/Feb11consumer.html


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## Reckers

Pete V said:


> On the board I run concerning glass, I periodically get real assaults on a particular vendor. My experience has shown me that there are usually two sides to each story.


Pete, I don't doubt that's true. I'm going to offer an opinion---a stupid thing to do since I don't know the people on either side, but I tend to do stupid things.

When individuals interact with companies and it goes poorly, the individual feels they've been victimized. They may not be in the right from an impartial perspective, but they still feel they have been treated badly. When additional contact does not produce the desired outcome, the feeling intensifies.
The company, in contrast, feels...nothing. Even a one-person company has less emotional involvment---after all, he/she has the buyer's money and the ability to terminate the discussion without resolution. The point is, the company needs to deal with those feelings, not blow the person off. Some companies are very good at this and we go back to them, afterwards. I've dealt with a lot of Ebay sellers who see the relationship as being more important than the sale---giving in on this one leads to future sales and you recoup the initial loss.
There are some buyers who are crazy: they want something for nothing or have excessive expectations. They tend to write flamers---postings that blame the seller not only for bad business, but attribute outrageous statements to them and the Kennedy assasinations. The original poster did neither---he expressed his frustration at being blown off when he approached them in a reasonable manner.
Was he in the wrong? I don't know. I do know that a company that leaves a customer with those feelings failed to address the issues sufficiently, or he would not have posted on this site. I suspect he posted on as many sites as he could, and I don't blame him: he's hoping that, by publicizing his issues, the company will either lose customers or respond to his complaints. My own post was intended to support his effort: the company should have taken the time to address his issues. If we support one another in pressuring companies to produce quality equipment and resolve problems, we all stand to benefit. If they don't, there are people out there who really will grab the gas can and matches.


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## mapper65

Actually this has been the only site that I posted my comments about Con-Cor. I frequent a few large scale sites but they were not the place to post my comments about a company that does not manufacture large scale products. I did a Google search and found a couple and it seemed like the people on this forum are really into the hobby and I thought, what better place to see if others have experienced problems with Con-Cor.

I guess in addition posting my comments I also thought that it would be nice to exchange this information so that others don't end up in the same situation as I did. I obviously can't tell someone not to buy from a particular company but I can relate my experiences about a company that has proven itself in my situation to be unsatisfactory.

This is definitely not a case of looking for something for nothing. I just spent over $600 on their products buying the starter set and 2 add-on coach sets and I was expecting them to be in new looking and running condition. If it looks new and runs new then I got my money's worth. If it is anything less than what I was expecting then I would like to think that I was dealing with an upstanding company and no matter which brand, would stand behind their product.

The fact that I can't get a response from them does in fact make things worse. I would never make or even think the gasoline comments that had been posted earlier in this thread although I'm sure it was in jest. 

I think a company like this will in fact be their own demise. In a way this reminds me of those health club scams a few years back when people paid their money and when they went to work out one day, the doors were locked with nobody to be found. The good news is that I can return the stuff and let the hobby shops worry about Con-Cor. The only thing worse than ripping off the consumer is ripping off your distributor. Nobody will want to sell their stuff if this is commonplace with Con-Cor.


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## Reckers

You know, Mapper...you're almost making me sound like a reasonable person. *L* I hope your distributor makes you whole and shares your dissatisfaction with Concor. Perhaps they'll listen to the shop.

Best wishes,


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## bradimous1

sstlaure said:


> (Allow at least 3-4 weeks turn around time. Some repairs may take much longer.)


this is my favorite part


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## xrunner

From the FAQ page -



> We are sorry it takes so long, but *we only have one part time person who works on repairs, and sometimes that is during the evening or on weekends*, so calling and asking about a Repair will not gain you anything as the chances the person who does them will not be here during our normal business hours anyway. We applogize in advance for the time taken, but we do not get enough returns repairs/ or parts order to hire a full time person for that department.





> Due to our limited Part time Staff in that Dept. Orders for parts, and repairs and Returns are the lowest priority in the warehouse, *allow up to 4-5 weeks for processing* and return to you.





> Some days we get upwards of 200-250 Emails, some of that is spam and we have to sort through it, but we can at most spend 2 hours a day answering random Email, or we would get nothing else done. We appologize in advance, but *we can not answer every Email that arrives unless it contains an order or specific request for merchandise*.


http://www.con-cor.com/webFAQ.html

Yikes. I'm staying away from these people! I still haven't found the tech support phone number, but the new order line is pretty easy to find - go figure ...


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## Reckers

That's a great suggestion, Pete: let the word get out on it's own. I'm confident the spider doesn't live here: I've had the unnerving experience of trying to look something up on my American Flyer units and found my own words from this site looking back at me!


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## gunrunnerjohn

I have one additional suggestion if you're going to try to get it picked up by Google and then show up in searches. 

*MAKE SURE ALL OF IT IS FACTUAL AND DOCUMENTED!*

If you publish the truth, there's very little they can do to you. However, if you embellish it, they might have a cause for liable. It's been my experience that the worse the company is at dealing with issues, the more likely they'll come after you if there's a ***** in your armor (or story). 

Just a note to keep you out of hot water.


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## sstlaure

Great advice John.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I hate to see someone get in hot water just because they're really torqued at a company.


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## mapper65

Well, as far as I'm concerned my experience with them is over. I've learned a lesson. I was really surprised at the number of responses that my original post received but I don't believe that one person chimed in and said that they had a similar issue with these guys. 

I guess in a way maybe my original question was answered, just not sure why these guys didn't appear to care about my issues. That's almost unheard of in an economy where companies are really trying to do what they can to keep existing or drum up new business.

Thanks guys.


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## Gansett

I'm 64 and remember when a retailer would do everything in their power to make a customer happy. Sadly I fear that business practice is slowly disappearing if not gone completely in many business places.


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## gc53dfgc

xrunner said:


> Not to (completely) judge a book by it's cover ... but their website is really cheesy and lame. I can and have designed better looking websites for a friends business.
> 
> If I saw this and was thinking about ordering from them, I'd think twice, personally. To me it is a reflection of their business, and this reflection isn't pretty.
> 
> http://www.con-cor.com/


While you and probably a lot of others could design a better website I have found that the website ussually has nothing to do with the company itself and how good it is. For instance I am looking at getting a few cars from Bethlehem Car Works (http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/index.html)
It is even more basic then Con-Cors website but what makes it different is the people. I sent them a question and got a well worded response within the next day that awnsered my questions. There is also the fact that their kits are very detailed and well designed as well.
I can go further and point out Intermountain 
(http://www.intermountain-railway.com/)
While they have made a few nice improvements to their site it is still hard to manage at times, but they make some of the nicest plastic model locomotives I have seen for the price and have never heard of a negative product from them so they make sure there quality control is up to par. 

I am not really sure what Con-Cors problem is as not to long ago it seemed liket hey were making a big strive into the larger market with there M51 cars and the complete Hiawatha set which both seem very well done and acurate. I would think also that if they get 200-250 emails a day and that they have to tell people no to doing repairs for them it would justify hiring a full time maintnence person for the trains and more support staff then they currently have.


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## xrunner

gc53dfgc said:


> While you and probably a lot of others could design a better website I have found that the website ussually has nothing to do with the company itself and how good it is. For instance I am looking at getting a few cars from Bethlehem Car Works (http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/index.html)
> It is even more basic then Con-Cors website but what makes it different is the people.


I agree gc53dfgc - that's why I never try to talk in absolutes, that's why I said not to _completely_ judge a book by it's cover regarding Con Cor. It's fine that you already know that the companies you mentioned have good products and people. But what about the person who _doesn't_ know this already? You only get a few seconds sometimes to make a good impression on the internet and their websites do not give a good impression. It looks like something thrown out there at the last minute and would give me pause before ordering anything (if I had no other source in information). I'm thinking, if they don't care about their image, then do they care about their products?

I could get a high school student to make a better website in a day than what they have. How? By using one of the thousands of free web templates available. Much of the work is already done and the graphics look great. A good looking website is only one aspect of business today, and it doesn't compensate for bad products or poor service, but it is a very important thing to consider. Why any company would not try to make the best impression on the internet that they can frankly escapes me, when it really isn't that hard to accomplish. In this day and age, there's really no excuse for it. In other words, what is the _downside_ to making it look more professional? Nothing. 

Anyway, that's my view on business websites.


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## gc53dfgc

That makes sense. I was also just letting others know that the website is not always everything. I agrea that their are websites with pre made templates for it but I give credit to the people that do it themselves. I have dabbled in making a website for myself and getting the domain name and everything and it perplexs me at best so I give credit even if it is simplistic. I understand your point of view though and agree it would be nice if all of the HO companys had Athearn or Bachmann style sites. Atlas is kind of towards the lower end with the rest interestingly enough.


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