# Zephyr Voltage



## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

Hello,
I bought a Zephyr DCS51 last year, and still a noob!

The Zephyr sometimes, almost works, but It's never been reliable, mostly with programming.

* one or two engines read/write loco address, the rest give d nr

* QSI, Atlas?, Proto2000, Bachmann and a few others

* tried using a clean programming track or mainline

* intermittant PU, busy or full messages - mostly with nothing on the track

Someone told me to check track DC voltage, which I should have done first 

Checked the Zephyr power supply. It's a clean 13.92 VDC. When checking the Zephyr mainline or test rails, I'm getting 2.33 VDC ...that's with no load and no resistor. VAC (the Digitrax tech told me to check VAC?) is about .5

I've read a lot over the last year, and learned a bit. Still a long way to go.

The frustrating part is that I've never yet enjoyed the system. Locos will work fine and then need to be reset. Programming CV values (even read/write loco numbers) is hit and miss.

I'm open to opinions. Everyone seems to like the Zephyr, but more and more, I'm suspecting that's the problem??


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I don't remember where,but I've read that the Zephyr sends voltage to the programming track only when it is sending/retrieving infos to/from the loco.And even then,you probably need a programming track booster to program sound decoders.

Are the problem locos all sound equipped?Did you try programming on the main,in OPs mode?Do you have voltage on the main when the pilot lamp says you should?If not,check voltage at the Zephyr's connector.If voltage is good there,you have a faulty connection somewhere on the layout.If voltage isn't good at the connector,then you may have a defective Zephyr.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Super chiefs are like that also. Only power to programing track when data is being sent or recieved.Jake has some good options there. Was the 2.33 v on main or programing track?

Sorry, reread, you did say 2.33 v was on both. Check v out the back of zephyr.


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

I wanted to isolate the problem, being sure my track or some connector wasn't the problem.

I pulled the screw/clamp connector from the Zephyrs back, exposing the raw pins. At this point, nothing is connected.

The rail voltage was only slightly higher. Can't remember exactly, but around 2.5VDC. I have to check the programming points to find again what it was, but at no time could I get more than about 2.5VDC.

I did ensure that power/track button was hot and the track light on.

Thinking that I MUST be doing something wrong ...I grabbed my little MTH starter kit and plugged it in. 16.60VDC solid from the MTH.

Also tried a hard reset on the Zephyr. It did reset correctly, but same problem.

I'm at a loss. Anything else I could be missing?

Thanks!!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

At this point I would call digitrax and hope you get someone different this time.
That low (almost none) voltage should tell them something. I have found them very helpful.

LOL. All of my problems have been operator error.


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

Maybe I'll try Digi again tomorrow. I wouldn't say the tech was grumpy, but he mostly pointed me to the web.

The weird part is that a loco will run, although some need full power. Always just one loco on track. I didn't check rail voltage while an engine is running? Trying that next.

OH... Just remembered. I have the Digi PR3 programmer still sealed in the bag. Wondering if it may help troubleshoot? If not, I just need to cut my losses.

Hate to give up on the Zephyr.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Even the best product may fail,that's why they have warranties for.I believe your warranty is expired but still,talk with Digitrax and explain your problem and let them know that you haven't used it much...who knows.Also digitrax have some flat rate prices for upgrades on some of their products,may be you can have it upgraded to Zephyr Extra's standards for a real reasonable price.Talk to them gently...they're good on service.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The PR3 is not a troubleshooting tool...sorry.It's an interface to allow you to program your locos or run your layout with a computer.Set correctly with Decoder Pro software,it's a fantastic programming tool.However,you'll still likely need a booster for sound decoders like Tsunamis and QSI's.


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks Jake,
Yep, sometimes a dud in the best of them.

Strange thing is, I just watched my cheap little Bachmann (DCC/sound) go around the track with 2.x volts? There was about .2 volts power drop on the rail as it started rolling.

With this info, I'll try Digi again. He did say that all returns are now done by web only.

Thanks.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

MarkAlt,
To start you off on the right track per say: You cannot measure the voltage on the DCC track, or the programing track in DC Volts. It will not give you any readings that mean anything! If you want to watch the voltage go up on the main put the controller on address 00 and turn the throttle up, you will then see DC volts on the rails, but still that number does not mean anything.
You need a meter that will measure AC volts in true RMS. Not just VAC!
The track voltage is a square wave AC signal, and the programming track voltage will only be present when it's reading or writing.
Like others have said you’re going to need a programming track booster in order to program the better decoders, most of the sound decoders will program very sketchy without the booster.
A proper working DCC system will put 12+ volts AC true RMS on the live rails.


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

I am so glad you said that Sean!

Long story short -a broadcast engineer friend pointed out exactly the same thing last night. It sounds like the controller is sending variable pulse width modulation to the main rails. A true RMS reading meter would work, but a scope is best for analysis.

So -my Zephyr may not be toast.

I already have a PowerMax on the way, which appears to regulate charge/discharge voltage rate on the programming track for power hungry decoders? Hopefully PowerMax was a good choice?

Thanks for the info and all the great people on this forum!

PS: Last year, I never thought it would take all this to make my trains go in a circle :laugh: At least I'm (hopefully) learning and can help someone else out someday.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I'm a bit confused by your description of your problem.I believe you mean that you do have a few locos that are running fine...is this right?If so,you can write off any Zephyr problem right away,at least with the main.

With your programming problems combined with possible operator errors (yes,that happens too),you may have accidentally messed up a few CV's on locos that were running at some time and don't want to run any more.

I don't know if the Zephyr allows reading CV's (I think it does though) but will allow programming on the main (in OPS mode).If you can't read,you could still try resetting the doubtful decoders with CV8=8.This should bring them back to original settings so that you could use them until you receive your booster.

I can't comment your choice of booster,I don't know it.Personally,I have a Soundtraxx PTB100 in line between my PR3 and the programming track and it works great with Tsunamis and QSI decoders,most likely with every other brands too.I use the Decoder Pro software,wich is a free download.


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

Hi Jake,
Several problems, Maybe normal ...maybe Op error?

Most locos (bachmann, atlas, proto2000s, MTH) will RUN fine on the main line as loco 3 out of the box. New proto2000 loco acted 'dead' until using the reed switch 'wand' to reset it.

When the Zephyr tries to read/write loco number/CVs on the programming or mainline track, I get a d nr error, meaning no decoder response, on most locos.

The cheapest bachmann (all are DCC/sound) runs and programs. Atlas = maybe. It's hit and miss (mostly miss) on programming or main track, with or without the 100 ohm programming resistor supplied by Digi. Surprisingly, my MTH responds well to some commands. I know it's non-standard, so keeping it out of the mix for now.

First thought was lose wires, voltage drop, bad/dirty track, dirty wheels, poor connection etc.

This afternoon, I'm taking the new proto2000 steamer back to my LHS for testing.

I'm hoping a 'booster' and PR3 will fix most of this. Should know a lot more later today.

Sorry to write a book, but that's about a year of testing and a lot of $$ 

Thanks!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

From where I'm standing,it seems pretty clear that the booster will correct most if not all your problems.

Now,you'll have two ways you can set it up.The simplest is in line between your Zephyr and programming track and keep programming the way you are now.

But since you do have a PR3,it's worthed the effort of setting it up with your booster between it and the prog. track.Then instal Decoder Pro.There's a slight learning curve to it but once you get the hang of it,it's a great programming tool.


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

A big thank you to everyone.

Digitrax really should recommend a booster for programming with the Zephyr. My programming track immediately would read/write every loco with a Powerpax inline. Without booster -zilch.

'Blast' mode helped write, but the real solution, so far, is a booster.

The slightly grumpy Digi tech did not mention either.


Oh well, just VERY happy it is working! :laugh:

Next ...learn the PR3/software.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Mark,
Check out the JMRI software, it works way better than the PR3/ digitrax software.


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