# First Layout suggestions



## busguy (Jan 5, 2017)

Hi All,

My sons (ages 11 and 14) and I are looking to build our first train layout. I had a couple of train sets as a kid so have some idea what we are in store for but it has been a long time (35+ years). 

A 4x8 layout is likely all that we can manage for a first effort. After a fairly exhaustive search for 4x8 HO layouts that we liked, we've narrowed it down to this one as the leading candidate :










It's the Falls Mill layout as drawn by Byron Henderson. The two attached drawings and a fair number of design notes are found here : http://www.layoutvision.com/id48.html










As a design it seems to offer a good balance of what we were looking for all within a fairly compact space. 

We want something that can keep two operators busy by offering both the possibility of switching, siding work and some round and round. We want something that we can run at least 2 but likely not more than 3 trains all at the same time. We want something that will allow us to try our hand at benchwork, laying track, running wires, building scenery (hills, tunnels, lakes) and building and painting some models to add to the layout all the while ensuring that none of it is overly "complicated" or beyond our capabilities (ie. where it becomes not fun).

We liked that as drawn with the divider this design offers the opportunity to have two somewhat distinct "themes" if we choose to go that route.

What pushed it into the leading candidate spot is that unlike most layouts that we came across we really couldn't identify anything that was obvious that we would want to change right away. 

Which brings us to the first (#1) question that we are looking to ask all of you. What suggestions would you make to alter or improve this layout if it was you that was building it. What things does it not have that you think are important to have if it was your layout and you were constrained with a 4x8.

The second (#2) question we would like to ask is for any suggestions you have with "how" to go about building it or things to keep in mind when doing so.

Many thanks in advance for any and all input and suggestions

Todd
(busguy)


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

When I was looking to start building my current layout, I remember this plan and that I also liked it a lot. I think that Byron Henderson does a pretty good job of designing layouts and I like a lot of what he has done. If I was constrained to 4 x 8 ft, I wouldn't change anything on this plan. If I had a little more space (like 5 x 9 ft), I'd try to make the curves a little larger so the minimum radius wasn't 18 inches.

You should at least consider an around-the-room layout with an opening in the center. You can get more track and layout in that configuration using the same floor space. I fully understand that isn't for everyone, but you should consider it.

One thing you didn't mention is if you plan to go standard DC or DCC. It doesn't directly affect your track plan in this particular case, but it will affect how you run and wire the track and how easy it will be to move your multiple trains around on the layout.

Mark


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## busguy (Jan 5, 2017)

Hi Mark,

We are definitely leaning towards DCC unless there are some obvious advantages to DC with this layout that we are not seeing. We will probably spring for an extra controller so that two operators can control trains independently.

We definitely debated the round the room thing a tonne but I think we'll need to stick to the smaller layout for our first effort. A 5x9 might be a possibility though. Being able to run 6 axle loco's sure would be nice. God those Sd-45's are nice looking machines !


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

DC would offer no advantages for your proposed layout.

It is ideal to take advantage of the many features of
DCC. You can easily run two trains at the same time and
permit them to change routes without the need of
complex wiring and awkward operating chores.

You could even have a switcher going about it's business
while running another train. The operation of one has
no effect on the other.

DCC gives you individual control of each train.

Don


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## busguy (Jan 5, 2017)

Hi Don,

That's sort of what we were thinking for sure. Then the question becomes which system to pursue. We're heading off to a model train show this weekend and the different DCC systems (manufacturers) was top of the list of something we were hoping to get a look at (from a touch and feel perspective). Our local hobby shop is big on Digitrax so we've seen that one but we're interested in seeing what else is out there as well.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Hello and welcome!

I like that layout plan for a small space, intro layout. Of course, I have a lot of respect for Byron and have corresponded with him in the past. You won't go wrong with one of his designs. Interestingly, it has a lot of similarities to a layout design that I did with my son, which you can see in the Collection of Track Plans thread (here: http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=66818&page=2).

I think you definitely want to go with DCC -- it gives you the ability to "park" locos on the yard tracks without having to isolate those tracks electrically. Definitely try all of the different options, certainly from the big boys (Bachmann, Digitrax, MRC, NCE) and see which one you like better. If your LHS is really into Digitrax, he's going to push that brand on you no matter what you prefer. That said, though, if you DID buy a Digitrax system, you would have a source of help and advice close by.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Perhaps you'd like to read this unbiased overview of all the DCC systems available:
https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/dcc-advice-6-our-dcc-brand-by-brand-opinion/


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

DonR said:


> DC would offer no advantages for your proposed layout.


DC offers no advantages for anybody starting out in model railroading.

DC is still used (and preferred) by some modelers who built their layout and collected their locos before DCC was invented. The cost of converting a fleet of DC locos to DCC is substantial.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

busguy said:


> The second (#2) question we would like to ask is for any suggestions you have with "how" to go about building it or things to keep in mind when doing so.


Regarding your second question, since this plan doesn't have any elevation changes, it will be pretty easy to build. If you stay with 4 x 8 ft, you'll have the easiest time. The 2 main methods would be to make the table top out of 1.) plywood or 2.) rigid foam insulation. Both are available in 4 x 8 ft sheets. Underneath that, I'd build a support structure out of 1 x 4 inch lumber. I'd put cross pieces every 16 inches along the 8 ft length and then additional bracing running right down the centerline. Glue and screw the boards together (don't use nails). Use a 1" hole saw to make holes periodically so that you can run wiring easily underneath the table and yet supported by the structure. This is much easier to do before you put the table top on it.

For legs, I'd use 1 x 2 inch lumber with each leg made of 2 pieces forming an "L" shape for rigidity without excess weight. I'd bolt the legs and bracing for the legs to the 1 x 4 structure so that it they could be removed if necessary some time in the future.

You'll want the level of the river to be lower than the track. If you use 2 inch thick rigid foam as your table top, you can simply carve the river bed down into the foam (but not too deeply). If you use plywood, you can use a jigsaw to cut the river bottom out from the main board. You'll have to use spacers to get the height difference between the track level and river level. Attach the table top to the framing with glue and screws if using plywood.

From there, its a matter of how fancy you want to get and how much time you have for making the scenery.

Mark


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*DCC or dc*

The only advantage to a variable dc power source is the initial cost in my opinion.I think
initially, what you should try to achieve when wiring, is to have the ability to change over to DCC... 
By this,I think you should put in a power bus with drop wires soldered to the rails.
Alan Gartner's web site on DCC will help you there.
Then when it's time to go to DCC, you replace the dc power pack with the DCC controller.
Check out Allan Gartner's web sight for DCC first though,in order to get a better idea.
Good luck now with this Worlds greatest hobby!
Regards,tr1
:hahlan ahead with the wiring task #1


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The DCCconcepts link seems a little dated. I mentions a lack of warranty on Digitrax decoders and now they have a no fault policy on repair/replacement of their decoders.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

I'd really try to shoot for 5 x 8 if you can squeeze it in... You can fit soo much more train!


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## busguy (Jan 5, 2017)

Many thanks for all the input. All is appreciated, welcomed and will definitely be put to good use. We are in Seattle today (travel day yesterday) for the model train show so haven't had a chance to be online much. Will try to post a few photo's from the show. Thanks again.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*18" radius curves*



busguy said:


> Many thanks for all the input. All is appreciated, welcomed and will definitely be put to good use. We are in Seattle today (travel day yesterday) for the model train show so haven't had a chance to be online much. Will try to post a few photo's from the show. Thanks again.


busguy;

You could also use the same basic plan, but build it in N-scale, instead of HO-scale. An 18" radius curve in N-scale is considered a broad curve, and can handle any type of loco you want. N-scale would also let your two towns get bigger, as you would have room for more structures. The tunnel/mountain would also look more realistic with smaller trains. A tip about your table. Cut the 4'x8' plywood and/or foam board to a point at one end by making two 45 degree
cuts. The pointed end will fit nicely into a corner, and leave room for access to both sides. The cut off corners can be added on to the table's other end so you'll end up with the same area that you started with, just in a handier shape. This idea is from John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation"'

Good luck with whatever you choose to build.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> The DCCconcepts link seems a little dated. I mentions a lack of warranty on Digitrax decoders and now they have a no fault policy on repair/replacement of their decoders.


I disagree with his assessment of the MRC units, too. It appears to be based on a very early version of the Advance Squared system, and doesn't take numerous upgrades into account. I think he's way off base about the handset, too. The only thing i can't do one handed on mine is things that require multiple, specific button presses, like typing in a loco ID or programming a CV, and I defy anyone to do that one handed on any system.

Furthermore, there are things that he says he likes about other systems that the MRC does, too, but he doesn't mention them.

Even among professionals, the bad taste left by early missteps takes a long time to go away, it seems.


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