# Scout Meeting



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is a Lionel beginner set engine so if you have one please post it running or not. 
A picture if you can. Past experience is allowed too. Even if you cannot remember the number,give a year.
These engines are steamers 4 wheel drive, They may be 0-4-0, 2-4-0, 2-4-2, 4-4-2. These are the common configurations. Internally they can vary a lot, after all the have been made for over 70 years.
Steam Switchers? Since they have a common engine, sure post it, the 1615 coners to mind.

So where is yours??? How long has it been since you have seen, or run it? 






Time for attendance





























Left to right
246 -plastic shell
250 plastic
239 cast
1060 plastic shell-engine in shop
1061 plastic
1062 plastic


1130 plastic
2034 cast
8604 cast
8632 cast
8903 plastic


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## Smokestack Lightning (Oct 31, 2010)

Cool collection:thumbsup: Do they even make cast trains anymore?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Yes the Lionel starter sets have them. They are like the 8632, Cast shell with a DC motor and an electronic e unit for AC transformers. The boxes normally state "cast"

A Scout was a starter engine but all of these are so similiar only a few were sold as Scouts.
Some have plastic motors, others are DC, or the AC standard. All are 4 wheel drive. They vary with smoke, reverse, lights, and leading and trailing wheels.


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## Smokestack Lightning (Oct 31, 2010)

Did you weather those? Or is that years of "patina"


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

They date from 1953 TO 1997. It's just plain dust.


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## Smokestack Lightning (Oct 31, 2010)

T-Man said:


> They date from 1953 TO 1997. It's just plain dust.


You may have come up with a new technique. Let your stuff sit around for 50 or so years for that real mainline grung


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

:smilie_daumenpos: (<=== Notice that I "discovered" the gucci emoti-thingies!)

I don't have my book in front of me ... Did that 250 come with handrails, or did you add those?

Funny thing I learned this afternoon ...

My damaged 233 Scout shell is black paint on a multi-colored plastic. But the 246 Scout shell is black plastic throughout ... no paint. I was able to buff off the heat-stamped "246" numbers and get down to "virgin" black plastic. I'm happy, 'cause I don't think I'll have to repaint this shell. A little Armor All should clean it up OK.

Ohh ...

... And always obey the Rules of the Pack!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I do my own handrails. Your're right.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> I do my own handrails. Your're right.


Nice, T ... very nice!


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

Cool!! Here is my original 1060 Scout set that I got for my 1st Christmas. I'm visiting my folks right now and they still have the set along with the complete PlasticVille houses and trailers. (Not shown. These are some Walmart cookie tins)

No...they won't let me take it home.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Epoxy Time*

Looks Good! I am sure there are more out there.

My 1060 had some broken pin mounts. Good ole Epoxy. I set the hole with a smooth end of a drill bit oiled and filled around it.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*1061*

The complete redo.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You all thought I was kidding when I posted this picture of the T man when he was a kid.

Look at the gleam in his eyes.:laugh:

Someone is approaching him with a big box of old Lionel and a big tube of epoxy.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Clever use of the washer glued to the end of the epoxy repair ... nice reinforcement.

I put my 233 back together today. All cleaned up (with stolen 246 shell) and running smoothly. I pulled out the dual e-unit drums, brushes, and springs ... got 'em all nice and clean. The Greenberg manual was quite helpful in having me make sure that I put the drum "gears" and springs all back in the right position.

OK ... a "still a newbie" dumb question. What goes into the Scout smoke generators? Smoke pellets or smoke oil? Can one mix and match?

I don't have any smoke pellets (or oil). Is it OK for me to run the loco with nothing in the smoke generator? Will I risk burning it out that way?

And ...

Ya' know, Ed ... that can't be a photo of T-Man as a kid. They didn't have color cameras way back in the 1920's!

Cheers, all!

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Actually, TJ, according to Calvin's dad in "Calvin and Hobbs," the world was black and white before color TV. That is why all the TVs showed black and white pictures. I prefer this explanation to any other.
BB


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bruce,

I am a HUGE Calvin fan. HUGE. I read his soft cover books "in the can" every day, and have the 3-volume hardcover set.

That "the world was black and white" is one of my very favorite cartoons, EVER! Completely circular and convincing in its twisted logic.

One of these days, I've gotta copy and post here the farmer one, where some poor shmuck is sittihg unknowingly in his farmhouse, while a jet plane careens out of control towards his home, a huge freight train derails towards the same spot, and an earthquake begin to split the farm in two. Love that one ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Where? Where's the box???? 


TJ The smoke units I have seen are liquid, they are too small for a pellet.
I disconnect them unless you want to burn the inside off, a little.
Let me find a baby picture.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> T-Man,
> 
> Clever use of the washer glued to the end of the epoxy repair ... nice reinforcement.
> 
> ...



I don't think they made liquid when that engine came out? (early 60's?)
You can crush pellets but it should take them?

I saw somewhere that you can run liquid smoke in one's that takes pellets but, but is the part I don't remember.



Just to let you know TJ that I have looked through an estimated, at least 40 magazines during breaks and I did not find that engine yet.

I only got around 375 more to go through.
I'm looking.:laugh:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I won a bunch of pellets on e bay, through out the years. I keep my eye open for them at a good price. Even if it's a half a bottle of tabs and the rest is powder.
Some are pulverized from age.
But a scoop of the powder works fine, smokes fine.
You just don't want to add too much.

Some of the older harder to find bottles goes for big bucks. 
Even without pellets. 
I also won some in junk (surprise) lots.:thumbsup:

You can easily buy some liquid smoke.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks for the smoke info, but I think I'm still confused 

This is the type of smoke generator I have in my 233 Scout:










The 233 came out in 1961.

So, pellets or oil? Or is it not really that much of a black/white question? I will say that the hole on the "pipe" that goes up to the smokestack has a rather small diameter hole. Around 1/8", maybe.

T-Man ... OK ... I'll disconnect the generator if I'm "running dry" to avoid burning it out. They really should have put a on/off switch in the circuit, huh?

Thanks a lot, guys!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks for the smoke info, but I think I'm still confused
> 
> This is the type of smoke generator I have in my 233 Scout:
> 
> ...



Smoke ( liquid) oil. 
I was wrong about the year they started make liquid in 1957.

See the other thread.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5277


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Where? Where's the box????
> 
> 
> TJ The smoke units I have seen are liquid, they are too small for a pellet.
> ...




I had to dump them out of the box so you can see them.

And since you were small they were bringing you all HO Lionel.
Two rail reckers.:thumbsup:













When T was a teenager he got a pet dinosaur from his folks.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have one or two like it so I thought oil. I didn't even put them back in. The 8632 has one installed but it is rarely run.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

OIL. Got it. Thanks, guys ... I really appreciate the info!!!

Hey, sidenote ...

This 233 is my first smoker unit. I was amazed to see that there's a little paddle that gets pushed by the left-side crank rod each time the wheel makes one turn. The paddle pushes a little cylinder plunger that blows air into the smoke pipe, causing smoke puffs times to the wheel cadence.

I know you guys have all seen that before, but newbie me is pretty impressed with the clever (and simple) Lionel approach here. Smart engineers on that Lionel team, way back then.

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


>


Hey ... I just noticed the dinosaur avatar is back ... and coming to real life, I think!

Bye bye, epoxy ... hello terror, mayhem, and carnage!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

On the 8141 there is an electrical contact on the paddle that connect the circuit for the chuff generator. That's the smoke generator to find.

I am going to have to get the book now. I need to find out what the rest of the train looked liked.


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## De-railed (Nov 27, 2010)

Does anyone know if I can adapt a smoke generator to a Lionel Scout 1110? I am very new to O-27 gauge.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I don't have the 1101 shell. They appear all the same. The smoke unit sits up front and is hend in with the metal plate tha supporst the motor The plate will need a center hole so you may have to switch this part out or modify it.
It may work just fine too. I cannot guarantee it or test it. Pics to follow.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Smokin*

The unit in a 246 shell.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I like the paint job on the fourth one from the left.:thumbsup:

That is the 1060? Right?

I seem to remember a thread when you were painting it.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I found it Ed. Here.
The paint is only a craft acrylic. I am stripping the 259T tender now.


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## De-railed (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks for the help T-Man greatly appreciated.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Most of the fun is not in the result but the attempt!
Flash a picture of the open shell underside for a review and looksee.You need the posts. 
Smoke units, I have two that came with junkers. I really don't seek them out but now I have a troop. Well ... now I adopt them if they look bad at a good price. Hopeless CatLady Syndrome.


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## De-railed (Nov 27, 2010)

*Lionel Scout 1110/1120*


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Derailed, T-Man,

I don't have my 233 (and clone 246) Scout shells in front of me at the moment, but they were in my hands a few days ago, and I think that inside shell arrangement is identical. My smoke unit nests nicely into that front cavity, just like the pics in T-Man's #29 post, above.

The 233 and 246 (with pastic motors) have the e-unit slot in the middle, like the 1120 photo above. My 249 Scout, on the other hand, has a conventional metal cheek motor, with it's 2-position e-unit lever and hole further aft on the shell.

The 233, 246, and 249 all have plastic shells.

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OK a redo of the pictures for the comparison.












Looks Good:thumbsup:


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## De-railed (Nov 27, 2010)

Would you happen to know the model number for the smoke unit in the photo? Maybe I can track down a used one or new old stock.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You need a few pices to make it work . The numbers are here


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## De-railed (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks T-Man


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey ... that IS the same as the unit in my 233! Full assembly is part 233-50 ... here's one listed as a Buy It Now on ebay. Seller has "ample stock of these":

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-233-50-S...119947?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53e4a2300b

Cheers,

TJ


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

T-MAN - as promised, from our other discussion, here are photos of the Scouts I have... a 1654, a 1060, and a 242.


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## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

*Lionel 1101 Scout Engine*

Hi guys I found this 1101 Engine in a collection that Grandpa gave me, I was wondering if there is any hope for it? Should I fix the motor or swap in a donor motor and can the broken screws be backed out? And what about the condition that the axles are in? I would really appreciate any advice.


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## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

I have an 8703 coming from eBay soon. If it counts as a Scout I'll post a picture when it gets here.

Got quite a few other locos that fit right in with your description of a Scout loco, except they are Marx and not Lionel! :laugh:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

2037,

Anything is fixable ... most times!

You're shell actually isn't in too bad shape. That long sideways screw is used to hold the motor in place. I'd try dosing the threads in lubricant, waiting a while, and see if you can gently coax / back it out.

It looks like two screws have been sheared /cut off in the rear/underside of the cab ... these would normally hold a rear draw-bar bracket. You could drill those out, and re-tap ... start with a very small diameter bit, and work your way up in size.

The shell can be stripped / repainted ... I'd say that it would clean up quite nicely.

The motor needs some work. Before you go too far, I'd get a multi-meter and check the field coil and the armature for conductivity, to make sure there are no shorts in the windings. If there are, I'd put the motor out to pasture.

Do you have all 4 wheels? Are they in OK shape? You can (hopefully) tap out the sheared axles, and replace with repro ones. Parts source below.

You'd need new drive rods, linkages, too.

The e-unit could use some work, but these can be repaired.

For parts, I'd suggest Jeff Kane at the Train Tender www.ttender.com

Regards,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I just don't have one of those motors, yet. If the coil is good it should clean up nicely. Invest in some dremel wire brushes. TJ knows.:thumbsup:


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## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

The sideways screws that hold the motor in place are loose I just left them in the engine. The wheels in the picture are the only ones I have, it looks like someone broke off the wheels on the other side.And I was wondering if you could post pictures or steps on how to use a multi-meter to check the field coil and the armature for conductivity. I greatly appreciate your help tjcruiser.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Set the meter to ohms. The readong between each plate on the armature should be 0 or the low k readings. The each plate should be 10 m when checked with the center shaft.


The field coil on the frame must be disconnected from the frame.10m between the frame and wire and 0 or low k between the wires. Or just clean everything up and see if it works.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T, I usually check the armature windings by pinging any two pairs of segments with the meter (rather than between a segment and the shaft). I.e., there shoudl be low resistance between copper-armature-face wedge A and B, B and C, C and A.

If the brushplate is removed, the wheels are removed, etc. ... I think he should be able to check conductivity (check for low resistance) on the field coil without having to unwire it from a frame ground ... as long as the frame itself isn't touching anything else.

My thinking, anyway ...

But I agree with T-Man here ... if you can reassemble the thing (without wheels) and see some motion / signs of life, you're off to a good start.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I just like to check the shaft for a short of any of the windings.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh ... good call. :thumbsup: I'll remember that one.


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