# Push to start



## Clintccp (Oct 10, 2010)

I have a Lionel 262 that needs a little push to get moving, runs fine once it starts. No e-unit in the picture and the manual reverse has been bypassed. Brushes are clean and wire connections seem fine. The wheels move freely when turned. Any ideas on why it needs the little push to move?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Try to clean the wheels and resolder the center pickup wire. The new solder is better than the old lead. Your springs could be worn out and working with short brushes.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Clintccp said:


> I have a Lionel 262 ... No e-unit in the picture and the manual reverse has been bypassed.


Clint,

A bit of a sidebar here, but I offered a detailed description and wiring diagram of how that manual switch works in Posts # 72 through 75 of this thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3847&highlight=1681

... just in case you want to get that working, too.

Also, echoing T-Man's thoughts ... you might want to clean the center-rail pickups. Does that loco have pickup rollers or pickup shoes? If the latter, pop them out with a flathead screwdriver, clean up the shoe and the mating copper plate with Q-tips and some Goo Gone, and reinsert.

Good luck,

TJ


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## Clintccp (Oct 10, 2010)

It has pickup rollers and most of the connections are screw terminals. I did clean the wheels and rollers up but will pull it apart tonight, clean everything again, and check the center pickup wire (can't remember if I checked it before). I'll also check the brush spring tension.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Another thing is the age of the track and the power of the transformer. You can't expect 40 year old track to lock together and run like new. The engine and your track should be used frequently. Since you eliminated the e unit that's all that is left. My 248 runs fine but it is no cannonball the 249e runs better. ALso when pushing etc find out how hot it gets. Very hot isn't good.
Hopefully tou can improve the performance. SLow starters are normally poorly solderd connections.


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## Clintccp (Oct 10, 2010)

Tried it on relatively new track and also on new fastrack with the same result. The transformer is a ZW and though I haven't recently checked voltage across the four outputs it runs other locs's fine.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OK that rules out some possiblities knowing that other engines work.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Did you check the drive rod linkages for proper alignment ... any signs of something bent there, etc. ?

If there's an excess amount of friction there, that might not be easily overcome at initial powerup, but might be overcome at speed.

Again ... just throwing out left field ideas here.

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Check for worn bearings. If the armature bearings are worn, the armature can contact the field and the engine will not start without a push. If this has happened, you are going to have to install bushings to take the wear out of the bearings. 45 years ago, I had a 2-4-2 switcher that had been run without lubing the motor bearings, and it had the problem you describe. I put a plastic bushing in the upper motor bearing and all has been well since then. Lack of lubrication is one of the ways to really destroy a good engine. While we are on the subject of lubrication, I strongly recommend that no one use lithium grease or any other grease, for that matter. The greases always dry out and leave a mess. Automotive motor oil works well and doesn't have this problem. I am using 5W-20 and have used motor oil for 50+ years without a problem. You can even oil the commutator without a problem. 

If you can get the armature out of the motor, look for wear marks on the periphery of the armature. Also, see if the bearings are loose.
Bruce Baker


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## Clintccp (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I pulled it apart and found a really ugly solder joint on the pickup. Replaced pickup wiring/resoldered and it starts on its own. I also rewired the manual switch with success so everything seems to be working now. On a side note, is there an easy way to remove the pickup plate (not sure of what it is called) maybe a tool to make it easier?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It's no fun. I have a pair of split ring pliers with the opposing jaws to open up for space. The drive wheels may have to be spread too for ease of installation. I have to do it for the 259 e and am not looking forward to it. The material damages easily and you set one pair of tabs at a time while the others take up the strain. Sometimes I cheat and shorten the tabs.
I have had to use super glue to repair them.

Bruce has a good point on the armature. The fix is installing a rivet on the end. I have never tried it though.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Removing a Lionel Prewar Contact Plate or Pickup Plate*



Clintccp said:


> On a side note, is there an easy way to remove the pickup plate (not sure of what it is called) maybe a tool to make it easier?


I just had to do that on a prewar 1681E loco. Not an easy task, if you're trying to keep the drive wheels on in place.

I'm not familiar with your 262 specifically, but if it's like other prewar locos, the plate is made of a fiber material. There should be two pairs of half-circle openings along its edge, where it butts up against the motor side cheeks. The Lionel service manuals tell you to insert a large (more or less) flathead screwdriver into each of these openings, then turn the screwdriver about 1/8 to 1/4 turn to pry the motor side cheek out from the plate tabs. Easier said than done. I've found that it's risky, and can easily chew up the fiber material.

Instead, I've inserted the pointy ends of beefy needle nose pliers into each pair of half-round openings. Then ... very carefully ... I push OUT the handle end of the needle nose pliers, essentially pushing the nose ends out, too, which pushes outwards pressure to the inside of the motor side cheeks. The point here is that pressure is exerted directly to the motor side cheeks, and not on the fiber plate itself. To do this requires an extra hand or two ... literally ... if you can have a friend help, maybe. If not, try to clamp one handle end of your needle nose pliers to a rigid base (table edge, etc.) then grab the other handle and pull outwards.

As you proceed, try to pry out the tabs of the plate from only one side of the plate, first. Also, start on one end of the motor (front end, for example), then work your way to the other end.

The problem is, you'll be fighting the metal cross-arms (some round, some flat plate) that tie the two motor side cheeks together. And, the drive wheels aren't giving you much leeway, either.

As I said, tricky job ...

When you get the plate out, do a couple of things ...

Use a very sharp razor to "clean up" any splayed or jagged edges on the exposed plate tabs, once they're out in the open.

Also, make note of which way the plate was oriented. It is NOT symmetric ... i.e., only one end should face forward, and one end aft ... because of the off-centerline asymmetry imposed by having gears on one side of the drive wheels, but not the other.

If for any reason, your plate is awfully chewed up, repro replacements are readily available.

Hope this helps,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ just reminded me of the oveheat problem.
The separations on the armature need to be clean, if it has a carbon build up you get current resistance and heat. SO check the groove pointing towards the axle betwen thew three plates..


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