# Project 2 Lionel Prewar 1684



## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

My user name is “Jean Martin” but don’t let the name “Jean” fool you…. I’m actually a male.. I hope that this admission does not cause me to get less responses and help. 

My parents have just given me the Lionel trains they had as kids. I intend to get them running by Christmas 2015, and I would like to do the work myself. They also gave me a 1964 Lionel HO Steam engine 0626.

I’m new to the hobby but have some experience in making old broke stuff work. I have three projects that I’ll be working on when I’m not working my day job or other duties.


This engine spent about 50 years in an attic and is in need of some body work… I think that a new paint job is in order for it. I would like to have forum advice on how to do this. A week ago I went to a Train collector show and bought the very same unit in good working order for $45.00 (Which is an amazingly inexpensive price in my opinion albeit the collector worth I assume--- What a great hobby!!) 

Upon my inspection I found my 1684 train to have the following issues:
-Wheels do not turn very easily
-Motor/E-Unit all seem intact --visually
-Wiring in need new insulation.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Very little collector value to most Lionel trains! They are, after all, just toys. Most show ample evidence that they were well played with, and very few exist in small enough quantities to be called rare. 

Go back to your other post and learn how to post pictures.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Paint striping can be done with easy off in a plastic tub. Cover with a plastic bag and wash off the paint. Make sure the gears arnt binding on any thing. And oil the moving parts . Look for obstructions around the wheels, gears etc. Make sure nothing is bent. Start there . And welcome to the site .


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## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

After the stripping is done I'll have questions on paint....Oil suggestions? ... I have to take a better pic of this unit then I already did.... Thanks both.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Here's the parts diagram for a 1684:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=801


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Jean Martin said:


> After the stripping is done I'll have questions on paint....Oil suggestions? ... I have to take a better pic of this unit then I already did.... Thanks both.


A lot here use 5/20 car motor oil for lubing most of the locomotive parts. Or 5/30 will work too.
If that is what your asking.


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## ColtsKurt (Jan 28, 2012)

Prewar... nice.


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## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

Thanks for the oil suggestion.... Car motor oil?! Why not I guess? If this is the normal practice in the hobby that's what I'll do too.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Lots of us are big fans of car motor oil ... 5W-20, or similar. Lubes nicely, and does not gum up over time.


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## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

Started to try to get this old timer running tonight with parts from another that I had bought at a show..... One problem that both of my 1684s have is that the pick-up shoe assembly shorts the incoming power right to the body.... I tried to get to the Olsen parts diagram but I cant seem to get into that link tonight... Once I do I'm going to get the part number and get a new pick-up shoe assembly from Train-tender.... while I'm at it I'm going to get a new e-unit drum and contacts too.,,,,, After I make sure I can get it running I'm going to strip and paint it... The "1684" was hand stamped on the paint, any advice on recreating that?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

you can purchase the stamps on ebay.i dont have any experience with them but they are around.


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## Wabashbud (Jun 25, 2010)

Call Jeff Kane at the Train Tender, he has the numbers.


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## Trent Bishop (Jun 8, 2015)

You could also use a small piece of masking tape over the numbers.This will preserve the heat stamping when painting.


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## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

All very good tips... Thank ya! Thank ya! Thank ya!


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

Lubricate the axles, gears, and gear axles. That should free up the wheels.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

For the lettering, I have had rather poor results with stamps. You can get them, but you need a special type of ink, not paint, to give good results, and they proved very hard to use (at least for me). I had to practice a lot: I covered an old plastic tender with numerous poor results before I finally got the stamp to work. Learning to use just the right technique - position it perfectly, use enough but not too much ink, enough but not to much pressure, come down perfectly vertical to the surface and roll it just a tad back and forth, but not too much, but enough - that was very difficult and even when I was good, it took three tries, having to clean off the ink, let the cleaner residue dry, and then try again.

Custom vinyl letters are perhaps a better option. They are much thinner than the normal Chartpak vinyl lettering you can buy in stores (but much more expensive), not much thicker than paint: you have to get closer than about five inches to tell. They are available in about a hundred fonts and any size, and when done right look factory-done. It get mine here, but there are other websites, too:
http://doityourselflettering.com/
This website is self-explanatory: you select the font and color you want, type in the numbers/letters you want into a text box, and it gives you a price and ordering options. Takes about a week to arrive through the mail.

The loco below is a Lionchief Plus Hudson bashed into a scale model of ATSF's 1850 Prairie class. The "ATSF" on the cab is a stamp bought for this purpose and was the only time I used one, using the recommended type of "dries on metal" ink needed. (The number 1856 on the tender was hand painted.)








This next loco was a Lionel Legacy New York Central Mohawk but has been re-labeled and renumbered as Santa Fe. Numbers and letters on both tender and loco are from the doityourself.com vinyl lettering website, and in the correct font and light silver Santa Fe color. They cost about $25 just for this loco alone, so cost is an issue. But they are almost indistinguishable from paint even when the eye is even less than six inches away. Note on the tender the uneveness as the vinyl stretches and clinges to and around the individual rivets. I've done about five locos like this . . . 








Finally, here is that first loco - with the stamped number of the loco - on the shelf this time, below an MTH Euro-series BR-44 I repainted and relabeled in my fictional Canon City, Blanca, and Glen Canyon Railroads livery. The letters in this case are standard, store-bought Chartpak 1/4 inch vinyl stick-on letters, detectable as "not paint" from about ten inches away, or closer, which is okay for me. And cheap. Letters and numbers for both sides cost maybe 80 cents. I find this perfectly acceptable when sans-sarif - all available at the store, is an acceptable type of letter, and the color matches what I need, too. Otherwise I go to the website.


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## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

Thank you for the fantastic post Lee. Your trains look great. Especially the "1856". I'm still not sure which way I'll use.. I have a lot of under the hood work to complete first... I'm thinking that a steady hand is a must when sticking those letters on... They look great, but I'm not sure I have the patience/talent for the perfection you have achieved. You have a very nice collection from what I see of the pics. Thanks again for taking the time to train me up right. I'll keep you posted of my progress.

Hey Lee.. Thanks I've got the wheels rolling real good now.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The vinyl letters come "pre-aligned", you just stick them on and then peel the tape. It's not that hard to align them.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

John is right. When they are particularly small (1/4 inch, 1/2 inch high), you often have to coax them off the tape - I use the point of a #11 X-Acto. Particularly if you have a serif-type font (as ATSF used) the serif points often have to be coaxed off as you "roll" the letters on.

I also discovered this. These vinyl letters do not have a long shelf life. A year ago I ordered a bunch of ATSF lettering, numbers, etc., thinking I'd use them in the future when I needed them. I went to use somerecently and ten to twelve months of shelf storage had pretty much locked the letters onto their tape. They were reluctant to come off. I'd recommend only buying what you need now . . .


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lee Willis said:


> I also discovered this. These vinyl letters do not have a long shelf life. A year ago I ordered a bunch of ATSF lettering, numbers, etc., thinking I'd use them in the future when I needed them. I went to use somerecently and ten to twelve months of shelf storage had pretty much locked the letters onto their tape. They were reluctant to come off. I'd recommend only buying what you need now . . .



Try storing them in an air tight container?
Maybe a zip lock baggie?


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## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

The 1684 rolls again!!! I replaced the E Unit and repaired the contact assembly.. I have decided not to repaint this unit at this time... I'll use the one I bought for cannibalizing to try out strip and paint techniques.. I managed to get hold of a Greenberg's Repair & Operating manual.. between that and Jeff Kane I think I can take care of most any Lionel O-27 problem... I step up my railroad empire on the floor of my basement , bought 4 35 inch straight track from Hobby Town. These old prewars can really fly down the straights!!! I'm going to pick up a few more pieces of it.,,, The guy at Hobby Town told me that Lionel is not going be making tube track anymore... Anybody hear anything about that???

So I would say that I'm on track to get a Christmas display set up for the family (mostly myself & grandson) with a lot of thanks to this forum.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The Lionel tubular track won't be made in the near future, but there is always plenty available at eBay, train shows, and some hobby shops. The guys using the newer tracks, I.e. Hargreaves, fast track, scale trad, etc. usually sell off the older tubular track, so I wouldn't worry too much.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice jean, way to go. The greenberg book is a must for repair work on lionel stuff. Good job and shoot us a picture when you get a chance.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Oh, don't forget we can help with painting too!


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## Jean Martin (Feb 27, 2015)

Thanks for the posts.. I have gotten info on the painting... I just don't want to do it yet on my running 1684 for sentimental reasons..... My grandfather who passed well before I was born bought that train for my mother... I kind of like the thought that he a handled the train and don't want to change that just yet... 

As far as the tarck goes I plan to pick some up when the Greenberg show rolls into Frederickburg this December.... I already stocking up on ammo.... now I'm worried about tube track too!! Come on Jan 2017!!!!!!!


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## Trent Bishop (Jun 8, 2015)

*1684e*

Good work Jean.Just finishing up a 1684e I have had for 15 years.I picked up a parts engine on EBay for 30 bucks and finished it.On a quick note the 204e is the same engine with a better motor and wheels for a little more. I finished restoring that one last month.


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