# Wife's Garage sale find ?



## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

She wanted a train for her Christmas city. 
Brought these home this summer . The B&O steam #297 in the box had now power supply.
The transformer I found in the box of "stuff" with another train don't seem to work.

She' like to get a running train. What do I need to get one of them running ?


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

*2 other locomotives in boxes*

These are still in the box. Don't think they've been operated:


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

*Another one in the junk box : Franklin*

This one probably goes with the broken power supply.
Not much track & some papers in there too.
Franklin :


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Excellent find there...appears to be two different scales. A good clean and lube should fix you right up.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bogydave said:


> She wanted a train for her Christmas city.
> Brought these home this summer . The B&O steam #297 in the box had now power supply.
> The transformer I found in the box of "stuff" with another train don't seem to work.
> 
> She' like to get a running train. What do I need to get one of them running ?











Hello, welcome to the site. 
First the transformer you show seems to look like an American Flyer AC transformer? So your B&O should be S scale.
I am not a Flyer man but I found that transformer online and it says AC. It should work on the B&O, it says AC on the box. I am guessing it says that on it right?

*You will burn up your motors on the Ho trains if you try it, don't try. They run on DC power.* 

I see the train is sitting on the track with all the wheels all over the place, you did try it with the wheels on the rail right?

You have a multi tester there, did you use it, what reading did you get from the transformer?

The B&O look to be in great shape.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This one appears to be G scale?
Does it say Bachmann on it? Does it say anything on it?

Take a picture of it next to the B&O *track*.

Looks like it needs some work, it could be O scale too, it is a little hard to judge as I don't know how big your hand is. Measure the wheels on the coal car from rim to rim we can then tell what gauge it is.
Looks like it needs some work.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bogydave said:


> These are still in the box. Don't think they've been operated:


These 2 in the box are HO, don't try them with that transformer.
You have any track for them?

She get them all for a good deal?


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## longbow57ca (Oct 26, 2015)

Hello, That Franklin engine is a American flyer engine from the set Frontiersman set. In that set Franklin engine ,2 cars , transformer, track. The set was made in 1957. It was one my first train sets I got from my parents for Christmas. I still have that set and it still runs very well. Thanks longbow57ca.


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## longbow57ca (Oct 26, 2015)

Hello, That Franklin engine runs on American Flyer track and needs a AC transformer to run it and test to. Thanks longbow57ca. I hope this information helps you.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Bogedave

It appears your best bet to get a train running for Christmas would
be that handsome Baltimore and Ohio steamer.

As Ed and others have commented, it appears to be what we call
S scale. It runs on AC power from a TRANSFORMER. The instruction
sheet you posted states that it is designed for the Gilbert American
Flyer transformer, and cautions about using more than 15 volts AC.

You should test with the multimeter. the Transformer you have pictured. 
It appears to
be an AC transformer, as opposed to a DC Power Pack. If so, it likely
would be correct for that train. There should
be a label on it stating the power output in voltage, watts or amps, and
whether AC or DC. Check for a circuit breaker which may need to
be reset.

If you find that the transformer is 'dead', you can buy a used
replacement, possibly from one of our members, if you use the
Free For sale or Trade section of our Forum. You can also
find them on Ebay.

A train that hasn't been run in some time will require that the
loco and tender wheels be cleaned, and the tops of the track rails
also. It is suggested that you use a kitchen sink scrubber with
alcohol on the track rails. Q tips and alcohol on the loco and tender
wheels. I say tender because in some cases a model uses the
tender wheels for power pickup.

The two boxed locomotives require DC power from a Power pack
and would not work with power from an AC transformer.

The Green locomotive is different, but appears to be 0 scale. It seems
to have it's reverser mechanism in the tender. I don't see, however,
any power pickup for a 3rd rail which would be common for 0 scale.

Don


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## longbow57ca (Oct 26, 2015)

Hello, The green locomotive is a Franklin from American flyer it is S- gauge engine. The pick up is in the tender gets its power from track. That transformer you show is American Flyer transformer that would run that Franklin engine. The engine is not 3rd rail pickup it is a American Flyer 2 rail S- gauge. Thanks longbow57ca.


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

big ed said:


> View attachment 110977
> 
> 
> Hello, welcome to the site.
> ...


B&O has the ac box filled in of the 3 (in 1st pic : 6003 )

Transformer:
Max V ac I got out on the 7v center lug was 1.1 V, & nothing on the 16V lug.
Weird to get 1.1 volt , maybe the adj arm is corroded. 
Either way, it's not working. Expected a hum like the old transformers (too old to hear it maybe )

The 2, HO in the boxes, don't match anything. Probably put them on CL.
Any idea of the value ? (one box has a price sticker: Grocery $231.88) 

Ohmed out the Franklin, got 47.6 Ω across the motor 
Pic attached:


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

big ed said:


> View attachment 111089
> 
> 
> This one appears to be G scale?
> ...


I put the B&O back in the box.
Could find nothing written on the outside
Wheel spacing is .675" (17.1mm)
But took some pics of the Franklin with a tape next to it:


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

big ed said:


> These 2 in the box are HO, don't try them with that transformer.
> You have any track for them?
> 
> She get them all for a good deal?


Yea 
if just the price on the one is close 
It'd be a Great deal IMO

The 1 ho box says $231.88 :
4-6-4 New York Central "Hudson"


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

longbow57ca said:


> Hello, That Franklin engine runs on American Flyer track and needs a AC transformer to run it and test to. Thanks longbow57ca. I hope this information helps you.



Yes it does 
Thanks

Now she says the B&O is too wide for here display,
Stick out into the room too far.

IMO, the one with smoke & whistle & Bell is a much cooler looking train 

Gonna try the Franklin it's a circle track.
Either needs a transformer though.

Leaves me thinking I should sell the 2 made in Italy HO engines.:SELLIT:

Amazon have decent train transformers at a decent price ?


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

DonR said:


> Bogedave
> 
> It appears your best bet to get a train running for Christmas would
> be that handsome Baltimore and Ohio steamer.
> ...


Thanks. lots of good info

Haven't taken the transformer apart yet, might be fixable
Will look around for a transformer (15 v) but what current rating ?
This one is 40 Watts
Took a better pic of the under side of the Franklin coal car


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

*More pics of the B&O & Xfrm testing*

B&O in a nice box
Anyone estimate the value ? 
























Xfrm 2.2 mv on the whole range 
Did get 1 spot on the 7.16 V output that read 1.1 V 
Weird reading when the rest of the range was in the MV range.


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

*A "Wa-La" moment*

Getting late here, 11:45
Solder joint failure. 
Appears someone was in here before. 

Will try to repair it tomorrow.
Primary reads 24 Ω, secondary 1.4Ω
Infinity between primary & secondary.

My guess is no AC in

Has a bi-metal shunt , on the common side of 
the secondary, if it heat up it opens the circuit.

Don't seem overly worn on the variable arm or secondary contact points.

Thinking it may be fixable


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

*Some progress this evening.*

Packers won 

Got the transformer fixed
can go to 17.4 V







Put train on the track, intermittent hum from coal car
motor not running.

Found broken wire on the motor
Repaired wire, motor tries to run. 








Direct clipped 10 volts to the coal car power pick up axles,
motor runs backward ? 








Could use some cleaning & oil in places, not getting enough current thru the track to the motor, . 

but why is it running backward ? 
Wires are connected wrong or there is a reverse SW ? 
(It's AC transformer, don't believe polarity will effect it, but I did swap the wires just in case )

Edit:
Is that a starting capacitor up near the stack on the front of the locomotive ?

Would like to have some confidence that the transformer is OK before trying the B&O


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Apparently you are getting power to the track.

The loco is running backward because there is a
reversing unit that seems to be locked in or 
stuck. I have forgotten where A/F put the lever
that defeats the auto reverse. Some A/F guy will know.

I think you said the tender hums. That would be the solenoid
coil of the reverse unit.

You will find a device we call an E unit (for Lionel or Marx) inside the
tender. It determines whether loco will go forward or backward. That
is why there are so many wires from the tender to the motor. It
senses when there is a momentary lack of voltage and a solenoid
causes a switch to rotate changing the direction. This unit may
need cleaning. It's solenoid plunger may be stuck. With the tender
on the track with the innards exposed, you should see the unit. 
If you see a lever attached to it, move it and see if that changes
anything. 

Don


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

DonR said:


> Apparently you are getting power to the track.
> 
> The loco is running backward because there is a
> reversing unit that seems to be locked in or
> ...


Thanks
Good explanation !
Will check it out , no doubt it needs some cleaning & TLC.
Momentary power loss, switches it to reverse/forward, pretty cool.
Will try to get a pic of the reversing SW, pretty sure I know what you're saying 

Snowed last night, 20°
other things on the "to do" list


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

*Success ! got it running *

Got it running
Cleaned & oiled. (found 2 pine needles jammed in the wheels) 
Took 6 attempts of putting it back together before I got all the parts in the right spots
Scotch Brite padded the track & tender pick up wheels.
Still see lots of sparks.

The reverse has a free & lock out position .
But don't work, well it worked once . Manual put it in Forward & then Reverse.















I think the wire that goes up front is for some kind of 
spark gizmo to make smoke some how. 








No video , but was all excited that it worked.

Thanks


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

big ed said:


> These 2 in the box are HO, don't try them with that transformer.
> You have any track for them?
> 
> She get them all for a good deal?



No HO track


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

The more it runs the faster it gets going.
Seeing less sparks now
G-Kids think it's great & G-Ma happy


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If you are seeing the wheels spark on the track that is a sign
that you still have more cleaning to do. A spark here and there
is normal, but a lot of them means not good wheel contact to
the track.

Don


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

Thanks 
Wiped the track with a scotchbrite
& the more it runs the faster it gets & now I don't see many sparks.
Kids put a santa candle on the tender, the extra weight helped.
Track has a few spots that aren't level, but running better now.


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## longbow57ca (Oct 26, 2015)

Hello, Your American Flyer Franklin engine looks great under the Christmas decorations and the American Flyer track and transformer. I hope you have lot fun with little engine it will last you a very long time. I have my set has lasted me over 50 years American Flyer Franklin one my favorite engines from American Flyer. Thanks longbow57ca.


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## bogydave (Nov 28, 2015)

Thanks 

Stack needs glued on.
G-kids want to see it run every time they stop by.

Real close to the train I had as a kid in WV.

What's the best way to store the Locomotive & tender.
A zip lock bag to keep dirt & dust off ?


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## longbow57ca (Oct 26, 2015)

Hello, My favorite method of cleaning American Flyer track is with a scotchbrite pad with WD 40 and acholol and old t- shirt to whip the track get ride of dirt and rust off track. Thanks longbow57ca.


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## grashley (Aug 27, 2015)

For your information and future reference, there are several different train scales. Large trains are G (Garden) scale. The ones I grew up with were O gauge. HO is half of O gauge, N is ½ of HO, and Z is ½ of N scale. 

Gauge	Scale	Length of 50 ft box car	Track width
O 1:48 12.5 inches 1.25 inches
HO 1:87 6.9 inches 0.65 inches
N 1:160	3.75 inches 0.35 inches
Z 1:220	2.75 inches 0.26 inches

I hope this information is helpful to you.


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