# New Locomotives



## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey all,

I'm at it again...had to pick these up today before someone beat me to them.

Traded some models for them. I got them at the same place I got the Alcos. 

There is still one engine left there. It is also an old Alco. It says "Texas Special" on it. Hope to score that one soon

Anyway, here are some pics..








This is the powered unit








This is the bottom, different setup than my Alcos








the dummy unit









I have no idea what these are or how old they are. Lionel? There are no markings on them at all, so I can't tell. They are actually in fairly decent shape. They could use a good cleaning for sure.

Do they run? Who knows, point is, they are in good hands now.

Any help identifying would be most appreciated

Cheers, Ian


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

I am getting good... I guessed Marx based on the pickup assebly, and a quick Google search confirmed my thoughts... It appears that they were made in the 1950s? They only had one motor in them... Now you just need the B unit 


The Texas Special is probably made by Lionel, but obviously I cannot say that without seeing a picture of it... The Lionel models:

http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=210
http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=211


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ian,

Ohhh ... "O" ... I thought HO via your "What's New" pics. Doesn't look like Lionel to me ... not their style of electrical pickups and trucks.

It that Texas Special a Lionel? If so, I think that's quite a collector's item.

Enjoy!

TJ


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Boston,

I was wondering if those were Marx Locos. 

Is there anything special I should know about these? Are they good runners?

Are replacement parts easy to find?

Finding the "B" unit for this set.......I'd probably have better odds being struck by lightning:laugh:

Thanks for the info


Cheers, Ian


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

TJ,

Based on what I've learned here, I'm pretty sure the Texas Special is a Lionel Alco. 
Unfortunately, its in pretty rough shape, plus the dummy loco is missing.

I think it might have been owned by the person that owned my Santa Fe Alcos.

The Texas Special has been painted by someone who didn't really know how to paint, but it is salvagable.

I'm hoping to add it to my stash and hopefully give it new life


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The copper center pickup is Marx. I have an AA unit. For Marx these are high end.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> The copper center pickup is Marx. I have an AA unit. For Marx these are high end.



Welcome back T-Man


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey guys,

These Marx trains, what kind are they? What is their official designations?

Are they F series trains, E series? They look too long to be Alcos

I need to order a new coupler for the front, and I'm not sure how to order parts...

Thanks, Ian


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thank you Ed. I can check on this engine now. 

First I believe it is an F-3. Mine is number 21 frrom the 50's. Yours is later. SHown is the Marx Coupler. You can addanyone you want to. You just have to make it fit.


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

T-Man,

F-3...thats what I needed to know. The front coupler on my dummy unit is broken..plastic, so I have to locate a new one.

Nice units BTW, plastic or metal shells?

Thanks for the info:thumbsup:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

All metal shells. If you find a metal coupler you can bend it to fit. Or just mount with a nut and bolt on an extension bar to fit. The last box of Marx I got did have fancy plastic couplers with springs.Somewhere on the net was a new Marx Site making new pieces from old dies. I may have the link on another computer.

This is a Marx plastic manual spring coupler.


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jeez Louise ...

The more I poke around here on MTF, the more I learn that there's just way, way too many types of couplers in the world. Wouldn't the world be a much better place if we could all learn to "hold hands" the same way???

Live and learn, I guess ... live and learn.

TJ


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

TJ,

No kidding hey? I never realized just how involved model railroading was

BTW, T-Man, my dummy unit has those plastic manual coupler as well.

I'll keep looking, I'm sure one will show up somewhere:thumbsup:

Thanks for the info,

Cheers, Ian


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

imatt88 said:


> TJ,
> 
> No kidding hey? I never realized just how involved model railroading was
> 
> ...



A copy and paste,

"A simple adapter makes Marx locos capable of pulling Lionel and other knuckle-coupler trains." 
That came from this link, http://www.thortrains.net/marxfun.htm

I tried looking for one but came up empty handed.

But I did find this Marx Flat bed log dumping car in my "junk" box.

Theres a lever to flip to make it dump.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Big Ed, don't let T-Man hear you talking about a, "Junk Box!" And by the way, looks pretty nice for, "Junk!"


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Stillakid said:


> Big Ed, don't let T-Man hear you talking about a, "Junk Box!" And by the way, looks pretty nice for, "Junk!"


I picked that car up in a junk lot. It was mixed in with a bunch of other train stuff.
All it needs is a good cleaning and it would look like new. :thumbsup:

It's not a bad looking car, got the wood planking, complete with rivets. And dumps well. 
I think the way the dump lever sticks out you can back the car on a siding into a trip handle to dump the load.

I don't know if they were meant to be operated that way but looks like it could work. 

I wonder what year they made these.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Thank you Ed. I can check on this engine now.
> 
> First I believe it is an F-3. Mine is number 21 frrom the 50's. Yours is later. SHown is the Marx Coupler. You can addanyone you want to. You just have to make it fit.


It looks like you could use some new wheels on that T.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The dummy has the bad wheels. It is over 50 years old.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> The dummy has the bad wheels. It is over 50 years old.



True..................,

But I got some (which you do too) over 70 years old and look new compared to those.:laugh:


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

ed,

Couldn't get the link to work. 

The thought of a conversion kit for changing Marx couplers to match Lionel couplers...oh yeah, I'm there, dude:thumbsup:

Hey all,

I have an issue with my Marx powered unit. I cleaned it up, oiled it, got it back together, and got it running...except,

It goes forward a couple of inches, stops, then goes in reverse, stops, then goes forward again, and repeats this cycle. 

I can't figure out what is wrong. It's almost like there is something stuck and it can't make up its mind which way it wants to go

I can't find a switch anywhere on it...could it be shorting out somewhere.hwell:

Wow, wierd


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

If you loose the connection it will switch. Are thwe wheels and track clean?

You are right about those wheels Ed. I just haven't seen it for a while.


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

T-Man,

I cleaned the wheels last night. The track is pretty new. Maybe I need to clean them some more.

I'm not sure which connection your talking about. Transformer to track, or something in the engine?

Cheers, Ian


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Normally it is just the top of the track and drive wheels is enough to reverse.. I have had probelems with their reverse unit I fixed one out of three so far. They get dirt and you have to take everthing apart to get at them.
Is this the big diesel?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ian,

I was poking around this Marx website the other night. It's not too technical, but maybe there's something in their engine/motor sections that might offer you a clue or two.

http://marxtinplatetrains.com/marx_guide_motors.htm

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

imatt88 said:


> ed,
> 
> Couldn't get the link to work.
> 
> ...


Ian,

I'm not familiar with your Marx, but when working properly, does it reverse direction every time you power down and then power back up, again? If that is the case, you seem to be dealing with a power interruption to the reversing mechanism. Again, if that's the case, I'd focus my attention on the circuit between the tracks and that particular coil/solenoid.

Best of luck,


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks for the info and link guys:thumbsup:

I will check things out and let you know what I find


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey all,


Pulled the powered unit apart twice tonight to see if I can rectify the issue.

Well, not as of yet. 

Reckers, when I power the unit up, it takes off about 6", then stops, goes in reverse for a few inches, stops, then goes forward again, then stops, reverses, and continues this cycle until I power down.

I focused my attention to the coil at the rear of the unit, there is what looks like a little brass hook that goes up into the bottom of the coil.

All the soldered connections look good, I pulled the motor apart and cleaned everything out, relubed all the shafts and gears. Checked the brushes, they look pretty good. I also cleaned the copper skidplate on the bottom.

I'm not sure what else I can do

That little hook is real sloppy and won't stay in any particular place, but I don't know if thats the problem or not

Other than that, it acts like it wants to run

Working it........:thumbsup:

Cheers, Ian


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Did you check this thread? It shows the e unit.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ian,

Sounds to me like your "little hook" is describing a standard E-unit. Now, having said that, I know nothing about Marx e-units. So let me go out on a limb and babble as if they're similar to Lionels e-units ... but I'm really not sure.

Basically, an e-unit is a clever "old school" device designed to automatically change the loco's direction each time the tranformer power is dialed down below some threshold, then back up again. Its an electromagnet solenoid that moves a rod-plunger up and down, which grabs a "little hook" that toggels a cam on a little drum. That wheel gets turned a fraction of a turn with each rod-plunger rise/drop (via track voltage drops) ... when that happens, a little electrical contacts get engaged / disengaged on the drum, which in turn, reroutes the power to the motor to affect a change in direction. Some e-units toggle: fwd-reverse. Other e-units toggle fwd-neutral-reverse-neutral.

So, it sounds like something is causing a voltage drop to your loco (e-unit, really), which is prematurely causing the plunger to go up/down/up/down, which is turning the drum, which is causing the fwd/reverse cycle.

As I'm babbling, it occurs to me that your e-unit is likely the fwd-reverse (2-position) type, since you're not hitting a neutral (stop) position.

Does this all mesh with what you're seeing?

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh ...

And most (at least Lionel) trains with E-units have a little toggle-switch (typically on top of the loco) that you can position to engage or disengage the functionality of the e-unit. If the toggle is "on", the e-unit will act per my description above. If you move the toggle to "off", then the loco will remain "wired" for power per whatever its last drum setting was.

Does your Marx have an e-unit toggle somewhere? If so, can you flip that to off exactly when the train is going forward ... and then ... at least get the train to continue going forward without the pesty fwd/reverse cycle?

That might help in the debugging.

TJ


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

TJ,

Your description actually makes sense. You've described pretty much how my e-unit is set up..

Combined with what I read on T-Man's Marx thread, it seems that my e-unit is really dirty, and needs a really good cleaning.

I'm just not looking forward to taking the wheels off again

I will try again, and let you know

Thanks, Ian


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Ok, all,

Took apart and cleaned the e-unit, and it is still doing the forward/reverse thing.

T-Man drew a wiring diagram on how to bypass the reverse unit, however, reading that stuff is not my strong suit.

I'm the kind of person that needs to see a picture of that done.

Anyway, thats the poop as of today...

Will try again tomorrow....

Cheers, Ian


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

When it toggles from fwd to reverse, is the e-unit plunger actually going up/down? I.e., is it a voltage drop causing the solenoid to loose magnetic field, dropping gizmo? If that's the case, then you probably need to hunt for the source of the voltage drop.

However ...

If the plunger stays UP while the loco is going fwd/reverse, then the source of your problem might be some short with the electrical contacts at the bottom of the e-unit.

T-Man ... set me straight if my thinking is off here! (I've got 1668 e-unit stuff stuck on my mind!)

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

For Marx The wire moves up. It acts on a wedge to shift it to one side. This shifting alternates on the wedge. I am not sure how, but maybe by momentum from being in the opposite direction. It is time comsuming to fix because they were not made to be worked on.


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

What would happen if I pulled the pin, so to speak. would it still run?


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

*update*

Cleaned the Mark Santa Fe unit again. Sprayed the crap out of the e unit with WD-40 and......

IT NOW RUNS:smilie_daumenpos:

I'll do some more fine tuning tomorrow (read: run the crap out of it!)

Keep you all posted


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ian,

I posted this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here, hoping you see it one way or another ...

You've got me intrigued about the Marx e-unit ... what it looks like, how it works, etc.

Do you think you can snap and post any close-up / zoomed-in pics of the e-unit so that we (me!) can get a better feel for what they look like?

If the loco is all zipped up, don't worry about it ... but if you open it up at any point, maybe snap some close pics.

Thanks !!!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Post number 7


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, T-Man! I should have figured that you'd already read my mind!

Awesome!

TJ


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Funny how these threads intertwine....:laugh:


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

*update*

Hey all,

Been working on the Marx units



















I've been doing basic body work, removing seam lines, filling ejector pin marks, cleaning up dents and dings, etc...

Also decided to drill out and clean up the steps and repair the broken ones..

Again, keep you posted


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

imatt88 said:


> Funny how these threads intertwine....:laugh:


Not really I just forget what post I am at and type away.


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

:laugh:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ian,

Nice progress on the locos. I'm not sure exactly what they're doing in the photo there, though.  But if you end up with a litter of baby locos at some point soon, I've got dibs on one or two! 

And T-Man ... don't worry about your criss-crossed thread cross-polination. We've got most of it figured out, and Big Ed will let you know if you get too jumpy! :laugh:

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

T-Man, you're an amateur at thread crossing. It's the guys selling all the chinese goods and gold jewelry that are setting the bar's height for that!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Ian,
> 
> Nice progress on the locos. I'm not sure exactly what they're doing in the photo there, though.  But if you end up with a litter of baby locos at some point soon, I've got dibs on one or two!
> 
> ...


I won't let him know but, I am sure B&M will.:laugh:


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