# Pat's first 5x9 layout



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

So this is my first layout. My son and I are building it and are spending lots of quality time together in the process. 

FIrst up is the SCARM layout.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

So now some construction shots.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

made some good progress on this long weekend. Helix is done.


















And here is what happens if you don't believe the math when it tells you there is not enough clearance... No problem I have a saw, I will create some clearance.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Two words: Fouling point! :laugh:

Good progress.:thumbsup:


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Made some progress over the last couple days.

Holy junk in the middle Batman!


----------



## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Aha, I see you brought in expert help to keep you honest, good job. Looks very interesting, looking forward to your progress.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Very exciting progress! Just remember when you start laying track to test, test, test!


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Worked late last night.. a few more pics. Then it is down to the basement to slave away on it some more!!!


----------



## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

Looking good! 5x9 is a very good size, it allows for just that bit more needed to get good smooth turns out of longer HO stock and still have all important reach to all parts of the layout.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Here are a few updates of my progress.


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

In your pictures it looks like you have some kinks in your trackage. These may or may not lead to random derailments which can be frustrating later on. You might want to fix them before you get much scenery done.


----------



## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

JerryH said:


> In your pictures it looks like you have some kinks in your trackage. These may or may not lead to random derailments which can be frustrating later on. You might want to fix them before you get much scenery done.



I saw that too, the transition from curve to straight cannot be "forced" no matter what the "plan" says.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

These were more issues with flex track, glue and foam.. They are a real eyesore. I run my fingers over them and they are completely smooth however. I have rolled rolling stock down that slope a bunch of times and no problems...

I don't currently have a way of running a complete train over it yet as I still need to power the whole thing in a reliable way.. I did fire up a diesel and ran it up that slope it studdered because I have only one connection to the track so far and that is all the way on the other side of the helix. It did not "wiggle" at all as it went over that area..but like I said I need to do more testing.

When I get some more power leads on it and a longer stretch of track working I will put my 2-8-4 Baldwin across it a bunch of times....if those two little front wheels don't derail over them.. nothing will. 

The only way I can see to do a better job would be to create some kind of track laying jig where I go from straight to a 22" curve, pull up that little section, and re-glue it using the jig.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

maybe I could get that little flex track solder helper tool and clamp that on there.. solder the joints so they MUST be even.. 

That is probably the best way to go.


----------



## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

What worked best for me to avoid kinks was the advice from this forum to solder together 2 pieces of flex track while they are straight and then bend them to the curve. That will keep the curve uniform across the junction of the 2 pieces.

Mark


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

The longer diesels and particularly big steam generally will be the most critical with track work. Running a six axle diesel or a 4-8-4 or bigger steamer forwards and backwards all the way to maximum speed over the track is a pretty good test.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Mark VerMurlen said:


> What worked best for me to avoid kinks was the advice from this forum to solder together 2 pieces of flex track while they are straight and then bend them to the curve. That will keep the curve uniform across the junction of the 2 pieces.
> 
> Mark


This is a good method.. but I was wrongly worried about expansion and such so I opted to not solder any track when I did not have to. 

I recently got the exact same advise that you got about soldering on the bench.. but by then my track was glued down. I think I can fix it a bit without pulling up all my track. I am going to solder them using something that will keep the two sections straight while I do.. maybe use a clamp and some spare track rails to the opposite side while I solder... that could work. 

It is only these two spots (there might be one other one on a different part of the layout). With the helix I soldered all the track parts as I went along, while I had them straight. the ability to nail the track down helped a lot. 

I am going to fix these two sections, if for no other reason than they are eyesores.


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

pat_smith1969 said:


> These were more issues with flex track, glue and foam.....
> 
> The only way I can see to do a better job would be to create some kind of track laying jig where I go from straight to a 22" curve, pull up that little section, and re-glue it using the jig.


Getting flex track to smoothly transition from a curve to straight track is not easy. I use pins (actually a mixture of track nails, large sewing pins and T-pins -- also from the sewing department) to force the track to curve where I want it to curve. Some of the pins go in the track nail holes. Others are inside the curve pushing out against the inner rail. Pins at other locations are outside the curve, pushing in against the outer rail. I have had as many as 10 pins within 3 inches of the joint -- however many it takes. I also sometimes add additional track nail holes where necessary to help bend the tracking the desired manner.

I sight down the rail from both ends to check for the proper curve and for a gradual change-over to straight track (called an easement). Once everything is in place, I solder the rails together, then remove the pins.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

This pic shows kind of how my command station will look.









Some shots of the new track laid. Several turnouts going up an incline. No kinks this time.
















Here is a shot of how I used a PVC elbow to make a channel for my wiring.

















And finally, a shot of the beginnings of my power buss under the bench.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

So here are the turn out control switches I am wanting to get. They are not VERY expensive and with the touch toggle switches and the way you can easily do a lighted control panel.. they are pretty awesome.


----------



## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

There goes the budget.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

jlc41 said:


> There goes the budget.


My initial budget was "under $100".. which got me a Bachmann DC set that had enough track for a small circle. I then picked up a bunch of used Bachmann track and was able to do a nice 4x8 circle with two turnouts (or two "derailers" as I called them). 


Now I am into it for a bit over $2k.. so yeah the budget is blown pretty good. Might as well have a nice layout to show for it all.


----------



## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

And here goes the neighborhood! A "power bus" on a 5x9? C'MON! I was pushing 5 amps 60 feet(NCE) and no power bus, I'da waited for trouble before doing all that extra connecting, each one is a potential trouble maker on its own. I know, I know, "that's the way we do it" but do you see em putting extra feed to every box in a building? IF you have GOOD track connection you will get electron flow and trains will run! I'm a frikkin NEWB and retarded AND autistic AND a recovering ADDICT! Not an electrical "merlin" by any stretch and if I can do it ANYBODY can! 

"Pro's" come back with "you were lucky" and to that I say "NO, I've done it TWICE and I was METICULOUS in my track laying and YOU could do it TOO"!

P.S. I ran that first one for almost a year and had no trouble, the second set up was MORE complex and I ran that for months!


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Hey Chip... I totally get your point about the power bus. I was originally thinking of maybe doing a power feed at each end of the track.. but I read a ton of posts that people are putting a feed every 3 or 4 feet of track... so I figured if that is the standard I would follow suit. I like to use others' experiences as much as possible when my own experience is lacking. 

And honestly it cost me maybe $10 in speaker wire and a little time to install it. It is much easier to do it now than later on. 


I will be adding an "Accessory Bus" soon too. Just a wire with 12v DC to run my lights and stuff.


----------



## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

pat_smith1969 said:


> Hey Chip... I totally get your point about the power bus. I was originally thinking of maybe doing a power feed at each end of the track.. but I read a ton of posts that people are putting a feed every 3 or 4 feet of track... so I figured if that is the standard I would follow suit. I like to use others' experiences as much as possible when my own experience is lacking.
> 
> And honestly it cost me maybe $10 in speaker wire and a little time to install it. It is much easier to do it now than later on.
> 
> ...


I'm a believer in all that IF NEEDED! Back when 2-3 amp systems and DC was the "norm" it was probably a VERY good idea! NOW with DCC and MUCH more power going thru the system....I'm just not seeing the need even with this GIANT table!

Needing an "accessory bus" is probably at least a year or more away for me.
I have an almost full roll of 14 left over from remodeling the house and will most likely use it some day IF NEEDED! I just think it takes away too much time from my main objective, RUNNING trains! I'm never going to say DON'T, put in drop feeds but I WILL say TRY it before you make spaghetti under the table! EVERY connection weather it be rail or wire is a possible trouble point, having as FEW of those as possible is to my mind a sound strategy. 
With this next set up I'll be going for it again to see just how much I can get away with before I bite the power bus bullet. Call me crazy, most do. :smilie_auslachen:


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

As this thread is labeled "Pat's First layout" that gives you the idea of how much experience I have with this hobby.

The old saying "If everyone else jumped off a bridge would you?".. well if everyone else is jumping off a bridge.. perhaps you need to evaluate if that is the right choice for you. 

From what I have read, DCC has more juice but it is also far more susceptible to minor current fluctuations. I have one loco that is pretty herky-jerky (most likely due to dirty pickups) and I wanted to give myself the best chance of the locos working well even if a little dirty. But it is all done now, I have the 5 feeds I had planned on. If I have issues I can add more easily. I can already see I will need to add some feeds to my double crossover.. but that is a special case.


----------



## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

pat_smith1969 said:


> As this thread is labeled "Pat's First layout" that gives you the idea of how much experience I have with this hobby.
> 
> The old saying "If everyone else jumped off a bridge would you?".. well if everyone else is jumping off a bridge.. perhaps you need to evaluate if that is the right choice for you.
> 
> From what I have read, DCC has more juice but it is also far more susceptible to minor current fluctuations. I have one loco that is pretty herky-jerky (most likely due to dirty pickups) and I wanted to give myself the best chance of the locos working well even if a little dirty. But it is all done now, I have the 5 feeds I had planned on. If I have issues I can add more easily. I can already see I will need to add some feeds to my double crossover.. but that is a special case.


CLEAN it! LOL!

I'm not all that far ahead of ya. No expert by any stretch! BUTT It's enough to stop someone from even getting started, all that wiring, and I just wanted folks to know you can try it other ways. With a layout the size of this monster, I'd STILL be wiring drop feeds for my first set up, I had to go for it and was pleasantly shocked! I don't want someone to think they NEED all that wiring, heading off potential problems is one thing, "make work" is another. Again and always "it depends" some folks are going off a pre made plan and others not so much. I been playing this entire thing by ear and so as confident as I may sound it's only from MY experience.

My "smart azz" will build this up again and I'll probably get about 4 feet out of the first Loco and sigh, then head under the table with a spool of wire! No shame in the game and ya don't know till ya try. Either way I'll be sure to let ya know.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I had to add a couple more power feeds to parts of the track I was unable to get to previously. I am finding that if I get too far away from a feed the loco will stall, it will keep making sound but will stop moving. Once I add a feed closer to that dead spot the loco works well. 

I also had to add feeds right before and right after my double crossover unit. I ALSO had to add feeds to parts of my double crossover or the trains would simply stall out.

One of those kinks you guys pointed out seems to work perfectly, the other derails 100% of the time. The problem is that right where that kink is, the track starts a 3% downward grade.. so the outside wheel gets kind of hung in the air, when it comes back down it is off the track. I will have to pull that portion up, solder it and re-lay it. Probably have to take a sander to that road bed too, to ease the transition to the slope a little bit.

On a completely different part of the track, I had a section where I tried put in a turn out. I grabbed a #4 instead of the typical #6 I had been using everywhere else on the layout. I can tell you that when a loco is not compatible with a 18" turn our a #4 turnout, they are serious about it. My Bachmann GP40 tucks will only turn so far left to right.. in an 18" turn or on a #4 turn out it will either get stuck from the wheels pinching against their max turn radius or simply hop off the track... I have a 4 foot section I am ripping up and re-laying.

All in all I am having fun. While I don't LOVE ripping up bad spots and fixing them.. when I get done with them I have a spot I know will not cause me a headache later on.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

It's a pain in the neck working out the bugs, but you will enjoy running your layout when it is correct. It's no fun trying to run trains, but it's a lot of fun running them!


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Fixing kinks takes major surgery. You'll spend more time trying to nickle and dime the fix, when really you need to cut out some major parts and do the fix properly. Then when the loco rolls thru you will have a big smile on your face Vertical easements are difficult. You can try the flex track trick and see were a piece of flex would reside. I used some thin layers of plywood with a thin (1/4") layer of foam on it then made the vertical supports adjustable this made the entire curve where the 2+% grade was sort of like flex track in that it was finding the right place to be and a few trial with a loco tuned it up and I then fastened the vertical supports down.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I agree with Lemonhawk. Pull up the track and eliminate
the joint where the derail occurs. Use flex track joined
several inches back from present joint and let it flex
naturally down your slope. Then provide supports to
match the resulting slope.

Don


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

That is pretty much what I did... got rid of that joint all together. I ended up cutting out about 2 feet of track just so I could solder the joints in a location with less stress.

After a few practice runs up and down that location I STILL had 100% derailment by my 40-2 (Athearn, I thought it was Bachmann earlier). Same thing where one wheel would get suspended in the air for a second and pop off the track. ODDLY enough right around the corner is my double turnout and that seems to re-rail that wheel. 

My other Loco (a GP30) also derailed in that spot. After sanding down all the lumps and getting it all even with a gradual decline it was still having issues. I put a little shim under the outter corner of the rail to give it a bit of a lean inwards (super-grade or some such). Now the GP30 can go back and forth at will with no issues.. the 40-2 still derails there. That damned thing derails on many other turns as well.. all my turns are 22" radius and the Athearn site says this loco can do 18 but recommends 22. I suspect there might be something wrong with this loco.. maybe the trucks are dirty. I did get it from eBay for $50 (with DCC and Sound). I will try my 2-8-8-4 Baldwin once the glue all dries up.


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Generally flat layouts are a lot easier to get the track work functional. When you start adding grades and worse yet, curves on those, your track work needs to be flawless to the eye and then it is ready for testing. Also there are alignment tools available for track laying which may help you. Another thing with turnouts is to have some straight before them. Worse case scenario is a curved turnout on a curved grade!!!!! I know that very well!!!!!


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I have a few turnouts on a 3% grade, but they seem to work flawlessly (at least with testing so far). The problem spot is a simple grade down a hill on a 22" turn, which is not exactly simple. 

I will eventually figure out the problem on this spot.. A process that will probably involve lots of sanding cork bed, cutting track, relaying track.. sanding roadbed.. etc.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

3 things Pat, dim the lights and try to get a reflection across your trackwork with a light bulb, not fluorescent. Make sure the rails are shiny clean and then sight across referencing the "shine" you see. You'll see kinks,low spots and misalignments you wouldn't see any other way.
Use a straight edge to check your work. You fiddle around a little, you'll see what I mean. A 12" metal rule would be perfect.
Use a small file and dress your rail ends and joints. Ounce of prevention......


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If you think you have the vertical easement
satisfactory, there is one other thing you
might check. Do the trucks have enough
'rocking ability?. It may be the trucks are on
too tight.

Don


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

The trucks on this particular loco don't have much rock ability at all. I didn't know you could loosen up a loco truck, I will try that. I have messed with the rolling stock trucks but never thought about messing with the locos at all.

BTW the 85' passenger car I picked up for $5 that has plastic wheels and weighs almost nothing.. never derails.. go figure.


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Another track laying secret is to make sure the tracks are level perpendicular to the track. This is also another problem that I've had and now take care to eliminate. It would be noticeable as the cars would rock back and forth and invariable there would be some derailments. By the way I have a curved turnout that is on a 2% grade but the turnout and about a foot each way are all on the same 2% slope - no gradient. I'm using this layout to test a lot of different techniques so I've run into lots of problems and sorted out things that work and things that don't. I keep thinking I'll halt this build and start over but I only have a few more feet and 2 turnouts to finish so maybe next year I'll start over......


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

after looking at the trucks on the loco a bit, the front trucks (which are the ones that derail) are very stiff and have about half the movement of the rear trucks on that same loco. My 2-8-4 Baldwin does not derail over this section after my fixes..so I am starting to look at the loco. More updates tomorrow.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Loco trucks are attached in many different ways. You'll
have to take off the shell and determine why one truck
is more stiff. That is likely the reason you are
having a problem with this loco.

Don


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

pat_smith1969 said:


> after looking at the trucks on the loco a bit, the front trucks (which are the ones that derail) are very stiff and have about half the movement of the rear trucks on that same loco. My 2-8-4 Baldwin does not derail over this section after my fixes..so I am starting to look at the loco. More updates tomorrow.


Two more things to check besides left-right play.

(1) Look at the loco from the side and check the front to back rocking of the trucks. Both ends of each truck should go a little above and below horizontal when rocked. 

(2) Look at the touch from the end of the loco while gently pressing the center of the truck (over the attachment point). The truck should look level -- left to right.

If there are problems with either of these checks, then the bolster where the truck is attached may need filing to level it -- although sometimes you can get away with just loosening the screw that is attaching the truck to the bolster. But that may not be easy. Loco trucks are attached in a number of different ways depending on the loco.

Also, you may have already done this (thread is too long for me to check), but check the wheels with an NMRA gauge to see if they are the correct distance apart on the axles.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

The wheels are in gauge, I did check with my NMRA tool. 

I did notice that on the front truck you can hold the left wheel on the axial and the right will rotate.. I 



. 

I will probably just bring this loco into a local shop and have him go over it. I only paid $40 for it and it is DCC and Sound, though the sound is pretty crappy. 


ON another note. I got some more done on the track today. All the kinks have been ripped out and replaced.. I have not tested yet because the glue is still drying, but it looks good. Also I got started on where the farm is going to go.. gotta have a home for the cows.


----------



## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

I'm seeing my future in these pics, glue, parts and bits scattered, heavy objects on the tracks, AWESOME!

Looking good mang!


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Didn't do a lot of work tonight, but did a good amount of testing. Now that I got everything off the tracks I can give it several trips around. 


















All the kinks are removed and are now no problem with all of my locos except the problem child (SD40-2). 

I still have two problem sections however. 
1. I have a curved turn out on an uphill grade.. I did not give it enough easement so some of the rolling stock uncouples at that location. I will have to rip that out, shave down the cork bead to make that spot a bit more gently. 

2. My double crossover is really causing me a problem. I had read before buying it (I actually have two) that it would cause me problems. My layout really benefits from having a double crossover in that location so I gave it a try. Now I am thinking that if trash the crossover and just make it a simple pair of crossovers I can almost entirely eliminate derailments. And that is becoming more attractive to me than having a fancy double crossover. 


I am impressed with the Atlas #6 turnouts.... I can run across them at most any speed with no problems. The cars and locos go over them very smoothly.


----------



## DaveCo (Nov 9, 2015)

The layout is really coming along. Keep up the good work Pat. it's nice to find a problem, fix it, move on but I tell you, sometimes it feels like you just go back and forth for a while. Glad to see progress though, I really like your track plan.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Thanks DaveCo, I am having some fun. I am going to have to work on it a bit less over the next couple months.. I am in the process of building a boat (17 foot open sailboat) and I really want to finish that soon. 










Last night I tore up some track, attacked the road bed with my coarse file and eliminated that hump that had been de-coupling my rolling stock. I didn't take pics because.. The before and after pics would look really close to the same. When I get home I am gong to test it out now that the glue is dry.


----------



## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hey Pat, good progress. I like the way you did the helix. I have been thinking of doing the same. I have an 8x4 so am not sure I can get the elevation. That boat looks good but don't you think it's a smidgen to big for your layout???


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Track laying is a real art. As I was working on mine (I still am) I would think this just is not right, but I think I can correct it when I put the roadbed down. Then I'll probably be able to correct that when I put the track down. An finally I end up taking it all out and starting over! Seems like I never learn. I now concentrate on getting the base of the roadbed right, makes all the next steps some much easier. I 2nd your treatment of that nice looking helix. Your going to have a really nice looking RR! I always feel that making the layout is more gratifying that running it (till I get the NKP Berk running at least)


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Thanks LemonHawk.. The thing that strikes me as funny is that I built the helix FIRST, well after the table. I laid all that track first and don't have one single problem with it. Supposedly I was more experienced when I laid the rest of the track but that is where I came across most of my problems. You would think it would be the other way around.

I attribute the fact that the helix is roadbed on plywood and a steady consistent incline. I didn't start running into trouble until I switched to the foam sub road. Not to say the WS inclines caused a problem because they didn't.

Early on in this thread I got advice to lay the roadbed on top of the foam and not put a layer of plaster, I wish I had listened. I feel that the plaster on the roadbed caused small bumps I did not see and that contributed to SOME of my issues.. the rest of the issues were caused completely by my inexperience of not knowing what was important and what wasn't. 

As always If I had to do it over again I would do a lot of it the same but I would do some a bit different and I would have saved time. 

P.S. I am pulling out my double crossover tonight and placing a single crossover/TUrnout concoction there. That should be the end of my derailments.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

anyone have an opinion on what color I should do for the ballast? I am thinking the normal light colored ballast and then in the switching yard go with a darker color... or maybe in the switching yard use the light colored ballast and weather it with some dark charcoal colors so it looks like coal, oil, and mud has been dropped on it.

Should I ballast before I do the grass and bushes, or balsat the last thing?


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I agree with your thinking...light or mixed ballast for
the 'better maintained' main lines, and dark for
the yards and spurs. You can add weeds and misc.
rusting metal junk between the yard tracks and
along the spurs. I have a few rusty old rails
here and there also.

Don


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Made some more progress this weekend.
Buh-Bye double crossover of derailment, and hello sweet Peco turnouts!









Hooked up some of my turnouts... no more "hand of fate" deciding where the trains should go.

















I hooked up my toggle switch controller (from Berrett Hill) and tested out the functioning... really sweet setup. Once I get it all setup (a couple parts on back order) I will hook it up on a nice control panel).


----------



## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hey Pat, looks better cleaned up. I like the control system your working with. I look forward to see the finished control panel. I have a bunch of Tortoise switches I need to get sync, this looks good for that.


----------



## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Very nice work. Very meticulous, prethinking, an ounce of prevention, right? This is going to come out amazing!


----------



## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

Looking good! Loving the neat wiring under the board!

-J.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

You boys keep messing around like that and first thing you know you're going to have a railroad! :thumbsup:


----------



## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm always amazed by the people who build their layouts using all wood for the elevations and inclines... so much measurement accuracy involved in getting that right for the grades. Really nice work Pat, it's coming along very nicely.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Can't beat wooden table work, you know if it's strong enough to walk on it'll handle the trains just fine.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

The funny thing is that the first piece of the setup I built was the helix.. it had to be wood (I think) so that the top section could overlap the bottom section. Honestly it was not hard.. I just layed out some 22" curved sectional track traced the inside and outside of the track on three pieces of 1/2 ply.. added 1.5 inches to either side and cut with a jig saw. The hard part was getting my crappy battery powered Ryobi jig saw to cut the wood... I have since purchased a plug-in jig saw and it cuts like a hot knife through butter.. my wood work would look MUCH better if I had it while making the helix.

For inclines I just figured out how many inches would equate to 1 inch of elevation and made notations on the wood. I built stand supports of that height out of wood and glued it all toegether.

Apart from the helix and down ramp, the rest of the ramps are the WS foam inclines. Much easier.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I truly regret buying one of those gauge tools. I was looking at a spot of track that was consistently derailing.. I used my gayge on it to find the track was grossly out of spec. I checked many other parts of the layout and found that most of the used flex track I got off ebay was out of spec. 

I am going to buy more (new) flex track this weekend and will rip it all up and replace it... so much for saving a penny and losing a pound.

if I had not purchased the gauge I would be blissfully ignorant of this catastrophe.. so I blame the gauge


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

If it's any consolation, your experience and the fact that you talk about it has helped us all.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I work in IT.. at work I have to know a lot of technical stuff about a lot of things. If I don't know something, it looks bad on me.

So in my leisure life I am totally ok with admitting that I don't know squat about something I don't know squat about. It is kind of refreshing. One day, I will know a thing or two about model railroads and I will share where I think my experiences will be well taken (the same as most of you have done for me).. and I still will feel like I don't know much.. and I am ok with that.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Ripped up a problem section and started replacing it, road bed and all.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Here I am trying something new (to me)... I carved up the foam a bit, then covered it with some quilt batting... then sprayed that with Scenic Cement. The hope is that the cement will stiffen the batting. I saw a guy on YouTube that gets good results from this method, but he uses latex paint to stiffen it and immediately covers it with WS ground cover.


----------



## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

pat_smith1969 said:


> I work in IT.. at work I have to know a lot of technical stuff about a lot of things. If I don't know something, it looks bad on me.
> 
> So in my leisure life I am totally ok with admitting that I don't know squat about something I don't know squat about. It is kind of refreshing. One day, I will know a thing or two about model railroads and I will share where I think my experiences will be well taken (the same as most of you have done for me).. and I still will feel like I don't know much.. and I am ok with that.


Well said! I call that some "TRUTH"!

LOL! It is "the inverted pyramid of wisdom"!

Every step one takes up, it creates more steps!


----------



## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

A lot of work. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Here is a video of my brand spanking new Intermountain SD40-2 going down my helix.. the layout is in pretty bad shape with all the construction gear sitting where the farm is supposed to be.

And that squeaking noise you here is the long green passenger car.. thing is light as a feather and is in the 85' range so it is great for testing for track problems.





Here is another Video. After this video I found a spot that the loco was hanging a wheel over the rail... so when it got to the Peco turn out it shorted. The great thing about the Peco turnout is that it will actually Re-Rail you loco for you. It will short out but then pop the wheels back in place and the loco will continue on it merry way. I have since ripped up the offending 3 feet of track and initial tests show it to be fixed, but the glue is still drying and more tests are needed.





And finally a REAL close shot of my new loco. Here I am trying to get a video of it derailing so I can figure out the cause. I must say I have never caught the Atlas re-railers actually re-railing ANYTHING....


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Here is that area I posted about earlier. The Quilt batting. Just spraying scenic cement on it worked a little... but now that I used the WS ground under coat stuff it got much stiffer. It is still not like plaster but I really like the texture it gives.


----------



## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Looking good, your getting there.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Check the gauge on the SD wheelsets, if okay set it on a pane of glass and see if the wheels all touch. Also check it to see if there is binding when the truck tries to swivel.

Nice progress! It's always better when trains are running. :thumbsup:


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

In the video right when it comes out of the tunnel at the 24 second mark, there is a severe lurch to the outside. It is probably derailing there. It looks like a kink in the track right there as well.


----------



## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Good eye!


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I saw that spot and will look at it further.. the foam is made so that I can take it off and "do stuff" to any trains that get derailed.

I know it was derailing on the opposite turn on the other side of the helix.. I was watching it with my magnifying goggles/hat/visor on (I use them for soldering). I ran my fingers over that section of track and it felt perfect. There was a solder joint there but it was smooth and no visible kink in the line. Watching the loco when the front truck would mysteriously for no apparent reason, just lift up and push the front wheel off. I ran the train over it a ton of times and it did the same thing each time and I was unable to see any problem with that section of track (I did check with the gauge tool too)... so I took the track snippers and cut a 3 foot section of track out of that location and re-soldered in a new piece... problem solved.


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Probably the best and fastest solution Pat. Cutting the problem out and removing any joints works a lot better than trying to nudge, fidget and hammer. It also give you a change to check that roadbed for vertical kinks and non level perpendicularity to the track direction. I've learned this over and over and over .....


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I ripped up the cork roadbed in that section too... took a belt sander to the underlying plywood (mostly because I could not get off all the glue I used). I replaced the cork (using less glue this time) and then re soldered the track in place with a very slightly more gradual turn. It was really difficult to solder in that particular location but I managed and no more "hand of fate derailments"... Honestly I cannot fathom why it was magically lifting up into the air but I nuked it from orbit. I do not need to understand the problem just fix it!!!!


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

Last night I ran my GP30 around the track at full speed for over an hour while I was staining my itty-bitty railroad ties for a retaining wall project.. not one derailment (after I removed my top heavy Bachmann 4 bay covered hopper from the lineup). 

Both my GP40-2s give me some problems, not many but there is clearly a bad spot or two somewhere.

I paid $25 for that loco used from the fleabay and added a inexpensive DCC controller with sound and it is my best running loco (mostly due to the fact it is the shortest loco).


----------



## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

I thoroughly enjoyed seeing them move. That was awesome!!


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

So to setup the below pics.. I am building what I call a command station. IT has my touch toggle board, my Digitrax controller, and on top a short programming track.

The below pics show the setup with things just placed in position, not glued. The smaller test track platform is not even cut to the correct size. But it should be enough to get an idea of what it would look like.

Which do you like better.. the larger one or the smaller one.

Big one


























Or the smaller platform type. (this one is not cut to size or trimmed up at all)


----------



## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Hmmm?? I think I like the bigger one better. More aesthetically pleasing, to me. but its your layout, its what looks and functions best for you.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

I actually like the bigger one as well. It has that little cubby to "put crap"... and I am learning that with Model Trains.. I will never have enough places to put my crap.


----------



## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

I agree the larger one looks better and will allow you more functionality. I am wondering, does the helix eliminate reversing loop problems??? Am having some layout problems with reversing loops in my expansion mock up.


----------



## pat_smith1969 (Aug 21, 2016)

My helix never reverses.. it is essentially a REALLY curved piece of track. As long as the outside rail (rail A for instance) stays the outside rail you do not have a reversing loop. Only when the outside rail connects into an inside rail (rail B) do you need to get fancy with reversing loops and track block isolation.

Can you create a new thread and post your layout diagram on it.. I would love to see it and maybe, potentially provide some help... if not me then one of the other more knowledgeable people on the site.


----------



## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

pat_smith1969 said:


> So to setup the below pics.. I am building what I call a command station. IT has my touch toggle board, my Digitrax controller, and on top a short programming track.
> 
> The below pics show the setup with things just placed in position, not glued. The smaller test track platform is not even cut to the correct size. But it should be enough to get an idea of what it would look like.
> 
> ...


Love the housing for your zephyr! That thing is sick!


----------



## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hey Pat, look up thread "expansion". Thanks


----------

