# Bush 4141 SD70ACe



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I wonder if the manufactures will be producing another run of this terrific looking diesel. This guy is from the original run that MTH produced quite a few years ago now.

Bill


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2018)

That would be a fitting tribute to someone this country will miss. I had the opportunity to meet him twice and he was such a kind and wonderful man.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> That would be a fitting tribute to someone this country will miss. I had the opportunity to meet him twice and he was such a kind and wonderful man.


Yep, with the UP pulling out 4141 from exhibition to head up the Funeral Train it will get a lot of National exposure later this week.

Bill


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

All of a sudden I wanted to purchase one in HO. I can't find one anywhere on the internet. They all appear to be sold out. Not surprising at this point.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I'll bet you UP is getting it spit shined as we speak!

RIP 41.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Excellent! I was looking at pics/vids of the real loco earlier today.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Sadly, you knew it was just a matter of time before the shysters would be out in full force.... and this model isn't even Mint. But hey, it does come with the matching caboose... all for a mere $1,500 PLUS SHIPPING! 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-6-34618-George-Bush-UP-LEGACY-SD70-ACe-4141-WITH-CABOOSE/273591619963?hash=item3fb354d17b:g:vFsAAOSw~6dayYBJ:rk:2f:0

David


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Here's a great website featuring some good info on the upcoming UP George H. W. Bush "funeral train". The passenger car interiors look superb in the photos, so be sure to check 'em out!!! (If anyone is wondering what a Lionel "VisionLine" passenger car should look like inside, THIS is it!!! The interiors never looked so good in 2018 -- even without passengers. ) 

https://www.up.com/media/media_kit/bush41/index.htm

UP 1943 is reportedly hauling a 21-car passenger train containing some of this equipment to Houston as we speak. Not 100% certain if UP 1943 will be part of the train though. It's not listed in the consist pages of this website, but ya just never know... 

David

P.S. Here is UP 1943 enroute to Houston (from Council Bluffs / Omaha) with the Bush funeral train consist of passenger cars...


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## Dieseler (Jan 29, 2014)

In my humble opinion Rocky that 1943 is one beautiful engine thanks for posting it.
May he rest in peace.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

Perhaps they will, if they get wind of this.

*Union Pacific on Dec. 6 will participate in the funeral procession for President George H.W. Bush with a special funeral train powered by SD70ACe 4141, whose paint scheme honors the 41st U.S. President. The train will leave UP’s Westfield Auto Facility at 1:00 p.m. and is scheduled to arrive at College Station, Tex. at Bush’s final resting place at his Presidential Library, across from Kyle Field at 3:25 p.m.
*


More details and pictures in this link:

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/...utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=220


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Nice looking engine.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Folks,

For those of you so interested, MTH re-issued their UP 4141 (in the Railking Imperial line-up) just last year. It was catalog'd in 2017 Volume 1, and delivered mid-2017. According to the MTH product locator, a few dealers have the unit in-stock. But more importantly, the locator shows that MTH HAS THIS ITEM IN-STOCK... which usually implies any authorized MTH dealer can get it for you.

So you have a few choices:


Order the MTH Railking Imperial version (with PS3) now for between $310-$350 street-price.

Pay the clown on eBay $1,500 for the Lionel version. Or if you wanna give the same seller more $$$, he's got the same loco listed for $1,750 on his own website. 

Wait for either Lionel or MTH to re-issue the locomotive in full-scale dimensions.

The guy who does those painstakingly lengthly Notch6 podcasts mentioned (over on the other forum) that licensing issues had become an impediment -- hence the reason for no re-issue of UP 4141 in recent years. But it seems MTH had no problem re-issuing a Railking Imperial version just last year. And the Imperial series of product holds up pretty well from a detail perspective. Hhhmmmm..... So much for licensing issues being a huge impediment -- at least not to the point MTH was able to work with it/them just last year.

All that being said... if I were so inclined (which I am), I'd take the plunge with a Railking version for $325/$350 shipped. How can you lose? Unless you're a die-hard Lionel enthusiast... or you've gotta have MTH Premier series equipment, just go for it now. This is a special commemorative product, so I'm fine with a Railking Imperial version -- especially at that price. It's not like I'd be running this every day. And like I said earlier, Railking Imperial is a respectable model... in this case, just 1.5" shorter in length than the Premier (full-scale) model MTH produced in 2007.

David


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I never paid much attention to this engine mainly because it was on the catalog pages of modern era diesels. My newest diesel is an early '50s era SW8.
Current events have made me rethink that position. If MTH does another run in Premier they would get my order.

Pete


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> That would be a fitting tribute to someone this country will miss. I had the opportunity to meet him twice and he was such a kind and wonderful man.


I met him when he was a congressman, and both his sons, too. He was a great man.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Tomorrow at 11:00 am Eastern time on Fox news channel President Bush will be moved from Houston TX to College Station by train. Hopefully we will get to see the train also. My wife and I watched the funeral and found it to be very moving.

Ed


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

EdC said:


> Tomorrow at 11:00 am Eastern time on Fox news channel President Bush will be moved from Houston TX to College Station by train. Hopefully we will get to see the train also. My wife and I watched the funeral and found it to be very moving.
> 
> Ed


Ed, just to clarify.... sounds like TV coverage on Thursday 12/6 will begin at 11AM EST with Bush's Houston, TX funeral service. And the funeral train itself is currently scheduled to depart from Houston, TX at 1:30PM EST (although I've seen different times posted online). Bottom line though... folks watching the funeral will presumably just follow TV coverage to this historic train. 

The funeral events have been First Class all the way. Whoever has planned and executed the events thus far has done an OUTSTANDING job.

David


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Should be interesting to see what type and how many of the executive passenger cars will be used. From what I have seen during the funeral ceremonies the Bush extended family is quite large.

Bill


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## Tom17 (Jan 14, 2016)

The train's sixth car, a converted baggage hauler called "Council Bluffs," has been fitted with transparent sides to allow mourners lining the tracks on Thursday views of Bush's flag-draped coffin.




https://www.yahoo.com/news/presidential-funeral-train-first-nearly-50-years-051341727--politics.html


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Here are some of the cars in the consist.


https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public..._nativedocs/pdf_up_media_41_train_consist.pdf


Pete


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

BRAVO! Union Pacific looked fantastic today! 

I was fortunate to watch the entire broadcast and the media constantly commented on the beautiful train. 

The "Flag Car" as one called it, was the perfect transport for 41! Great decision, Mr Bush!


I can't think of anything more American than the Union Pacific, all the US flags, and some of the finest joint US Service Honor Guards ever on TV!


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

First class operation all the way!!! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I had heard that the UP Bush 4141 power train will be removed and the locomotive will be donated to the Bush 41 Museum at College Station, Texas.

Bill


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2018)

That would be the perfect place for this engine, Bill. I bet the President would have liked that very much.


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## Roving Sign (Apr 23, 2017)

I worked old 4141 into the show yesterday!

We always do "Proud To Be An American" and the last slide is a waving American flag - but yesterday I added this slide before the flag.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2018)

Good for you, Roving Sign.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Great Job, Roving!


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

This morning my Facebook Newsfeed featured Lionel's "Ryan & Dave Show" video that apparently ran this past Friday as a Facebook Live presentation. And during the introduction Ryan mentioned very briefly that Lionel will definitely be making a product announcement in 2019 with respect to a President George H. W. Bush funeral train. Unfortunately, it's a bit too close to the release of the 2019 Signature Catalog, so he made it sound like it won't be featured in that catalog... but that enthusiasts should stay tuned for more details in 2019.

If I read in between the lines correctly, it sounded like their might be a special announcement made shortly thereafter -- I'm thinking no later than April York (my thoughts... not Ryan's). So something definitely is in the works, which is GREAT news for enthusiasts running Lionel Legacy. I would certainly expect something similar from MTH as well. As I've indicated earlier, the comment on the other forum that licensing would be an impediment to future product releases was blown out of proportion and largely inaccurate. Everything in life is "negotiable" as they say... and this was just too important an event not to commemorate historically. 

Should be interesting to see how much of a "funeral train" announcement is offered beyond the UP 4141 locomotive. If Lionel decides to offer UP passenger cars, it would be cool if they offered the 2066 power car that was used up front in the funeral train... as well as two of the business cars (i.e., the ones with the balcony -- one had the balcony facing forward [immediately behind the flag car if I recall correctly], and the other was the last car in the train with the trailing balcony). We shall see.

David


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2018)

David, Lionel certainly has a heads up to do this train with existing tooling.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Brian, very true. 

The trick will be determining how much of the 11-car funeral train to offer. Lionel's UP Excursion power car didn't have the rooftop equipment that we see in the 2066 power car. So that would be a little tweak if they wanna go down that road. If not, then they'll likely re-issue the UP Excursion power car (or something based closely on that).

As for the two business cars with the outside balcony... that'll be interesting because the last time we saw something like that came from K-Line... in the 18" and 21" aluminum car days. And the fact that K-Line first offered these back in 2005 just goes to show us how far ahead of the pack K-Line was in its heyday. I recall seeing a Santa Fe and Southern Pacific business car more recently too -- perhaps under the K-Line by Lionel brand, although I'm not 100% certain of that. 










So Lionel now offering them in their new ABS product series would imply new tooling for ABS. Of course, Lionel could offer the aluminum versions in either 18" or 21", but I'm sure we'd be paying a dear premium for those. Either way though... if Lionel still has easy access to K-Line tooling, then they definitely have a leg up on producing these cars. Most of the other UP funeral train passenger cars have already been available in prior or current offerings.

Should be interesting to say the least.

David


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Steve Nelson just sent an email the MTH is rerunning 4141 along with the flag car and UP 9096 for next year. It will be available in Premier, Railking, HO, and G gauge. Guess I am going to put my money where my mouth is or is that finger?
Price will be much less than $15k.

Pete


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## Roving Sign (Apr 23, 2017)

Considering the inevitable-ness of the GHWB's passing...

I hate to sound cynical - but given the pace of the O gauge product - you'd hope they'd have a a goto plan for events like this...some "projections" or "plans"

They should have had this stuff in the catalog - this year! 

Otherwise - Its like 18 months - best case till you see this stuff - might be be a bit late to the party, no?

Might as well catalog the 4343 W Train - at this rate - might be delivered right on time!


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

The Railking version can be had right now. They have already done a PS3 Premier model just a few years ago. They just have bring the dies and paint masks out of the warehouse.

Pete


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Roving Sign said:


> ....
> They should have had this stuff in the catalog - this year!
> 
> Otherwise - Its like 18 months - best case till you see this stuff - might be be a bit late to the party, no?
> ...


The real key here is which importer has the best relationship with their overseas factories to crank something like this out in a timely manner. MTH just delivered a Railking version of the UP 4141 engine in the Summer of 2017, but the supply of those has dried up rather quickly in recent days... although a small shop or two that doesn't show their inventory online may have one sitting on a shelf. Ya just never know what you'll find in those small, out-of-the-way train shops!!!

As for the new production runs, it looks like MTH wins the announcement race over Lionel -- who just last week "mentioned" an announcement would be in the works "soon" but not included in their 2019 Signature Catalog since that was already too far along in the planning process. Meanwhile MTH has already announced SKU's for the locomotives and flag baggage car in a variety of scales. However, to date neither importer has released a commemorative product brochure. And that would be nice touch. In fact, if Lionel is smart, they'll release that BEFORE their 2019 Signature Catalog (which normally is released between Toy Fair and April York if memory serves me correctly).

At a bare minimum, it's great to see these announcements NOW -- as they're sure to cut the ridiculous price-gouging sellers at their knees early on in the game. It was admirable that so many "authorized dealers" sold their remaining inventory of MTH Railking UP4141 locos and Lionel 21" two-packs containing the flag baggage car at REGULAR street-prices. But the shysters on eBay wasted no time sending asking prices into the stratosphere for their Lionel Legacy UP4141 loco in excess of $3K, the Lionel 21" two-pack for close to $800, and even the MTH flag baggage car at $400-$500. 

These announcements should pretty much call it an early day for those quick-profit-seeking sellers -- except for perhaps those buyers who simply have an endless supply of money to burn and need something immediately, for which they'll pay a very dear premium.  Careless spending for sure... but ya can't tell people how to spend their hard-earned -- or in this case probably not-so-hard-earned -- money!!! 

Based on MrMuffin's email blast, it appears MTH is going the route of pre-orders, followed by production. And I suspect Lionel will do the same as well. Although it would have been really cool to see one of the importers put their money where their mouth is and surprise enthusiasts with a specially allocated production run that would be available immediately. Of course, that could also have reeked quite a bit of havoc for smaller shops who are now accustomed to fighting for pre-order business just like the big guys. So I suspect when all is said and done, we'll see the usual BTO process in play during the next few weeks/months. 

Now whether MTH has pushed Lionel's hand to announce _their_ Bush commemorative products remains to be seen. But if I were Lionel, I'd unveil an announcement sooner rather than later... and April York would be MUCH too late now that MTH has already announced. But die-hard Lionel (Legacy) enthusiasts are a tough breed to break ranks -- especially if they don't have DCS installed on their layouts.

As for delivery, I seriously doubt we're looking at 18 months out. And if either importer is smart, they'll do a very short pre-order window and deliver during 1H2019. 


David


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

MTH just announced that they will be offering for delivery in 2019 the Bush 4141 and the UP flag diesels used in the Bush funeral train along with the casket car. They will be offered in Premier, Railking, G Gauge, and HO.

Since I already have Bush 4141 most likely will get the funeral car and maybe the UP Flag diesel.

Bill


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2018)

It did not take long for this to happen, Bill. We are knew that it was coming. Lionel will probably announce it soon.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I got an email from Mr. Muffin's and he's selling the railking version for $369.95.


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## TGP (Sep 6, 2015)

For those that are aware of the " Linkedin". web site
there is a real nice video, (not very lengthy), but real
good, clarity of the complete train, going thru a part of 
Texas. Cars are amazingly clean, and colorful, all beit
everybody's awareness of the meaning behind this great gesture 
for the passed , 41st President.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Ryan Kunkle just announced Lionel will be doing a rerun along with a few of the special cars.

"With so many forum threads about this topic already, I'm just going to pick this one to post so as not to step on the MTH thread. As noted on the Ryan and Dave show last week, Lionel will be releasing a special set to honor 41. We are currently in the final stages of preparing the Volume 1 catalog, and with the new tooling planned for the set, we won't be able to show it until later in 2020. Normally we keep pretty quiet about future releases, but this train has been the most requested I've seen in the past 5 years and being in the Christmas spirit, here's an early Christmas present for you all! 

We will re-release 4141 both separate sale and as part of a full set. Powered and non-powered versions are also planned for those who may just want to have this as a show piece. The set will include four cars, three of which will require new or modified tooling: City of Portland (new dining interiors for the dome), Council Bluffs (open doors and interior of course!), Overland (StationSounds diner), and Kenefick (all new business car tooling.) As a special train, this set will include figures in the interior of all cars and special sound recordings for the diner and locomotive. Also available will be additional SD70AH's (9096 as well as two others, 9069 (led the advance train) and 9088 (paired with 1943 on some trips last year) and additional separate sale cars to complement this or the other UP cars released previously and expand your trains. 

Too early to give a price or availability date at this time. As mentioned, this has been one of the most requested items in recent memory so we want to take the time to do it right, and do justice to the prototype and of course the esteemed President himself. He deserves nothing less. Thank you to all who have reached out with your suggestions and comments.

On a completely separate note, but knowing that a comment from one of us always sparks a round of questions: we are very busy in the warehouse this week, everyone from Howard on down the line, working to get as much out to you all in time for Christmas as possible. We are still receiving 3 to 5 inbound containers daily and working to turn shipments as fast as possible. There are too many items to list here, but all of the remaining LEGACY diesels and LionChief Plus NW2s, the 1930 Broadway Limited and Salad Bowl Express sets, oodles of 18" passenger cars, train sets and more are all expected to be out the door before Christmas. The Moguls have returned from the factory. Customer Service will be checking each one and then sending them back to the original owners - they will likely return to you shortly after the new year.

Unfortunately, that's all the update I have time for as there are Broadway Limited sets in the warehouse awaiting and lunch time is over. Thank you all for making 2018 a fantastic year for us here at Lionel. We are already looking forward to what next year has in store (I've seen the catalog - there's some pretty cool stuff in there!!!) and wish you all a safe, happy, train-filled Merry Christmas!

Ryan Kunkle
Director of Production, Lionel LLC"


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2018)

Thanks for the Lionel update, Norton. Appears that their Bush funeral train will be something special.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Lionel provides more details after MTH's announcement*

Here's the latest from Lionel's Ryan Kunkle (as posted on the other place)....


With so many forum threads about this topic already, I'm just going to pick this one to post so as not to step on the MTH thread. As noted on the Ryan and Dave show last week, Lionel will be releasing a special set to honor 41. We are currently in the final stages of preparing the Volume 1 catalog, and with the new tooling planned for the set, we won't be able to show it until later in 2020. Normally we keep pretty quiet about future releases, but this train has been the most requested I've seen in the past 5 years and being in the Christmas spirit, here's an early Christmas present for you all! 

We will re-release 4141 both separate sale and as part of a full set. Powered and non-powered versions are also planned for those who may just want to have this as a show piece. The set will include four cars, three of which will require new or modified tooling: City of Portland (new dining interiors for the dome), Council Bluffs (open doors and interior of course!), Overland (StationSounds diner), and Kenefick (all new business car tooling.) As a special train, this set will include figures in the interior of all cars and special sound recordings for the diner and locomotive. Also available will be additional SD70AH's (9096 as well as two others, 9069 (led the advance train) and 9088 (paired with 1943 on some trips last year) and additional separate sale cars to complement this or the other UP cars released previously and expand your trains. 

Too early to give a price or availability date at this time. As mentioned, this has been one of the most requested items in recent memory so we want to take the time to do it right, and do justice to the prototype and of course the esteemed President himself. He deserves nothing less. Thank you to all who have reached out with your suggestions and comments.

On a completely separate note, but knowing that a comment from one of us always sparks a round of questions: we are very busy in the warehouse this week, everyone from Howard on down the line, working to get as much out to you all in time for Christmas as possible. We are still receiving 3 to 5 inbound containers daily and working to turn shipments as fast as possible. There are too many items to list here, but all of the remaining LEGACY diesels and LionChief Plus NW2s, the 1930 Broadway Limited and Salad Bowl Express sets, oodles of 18" passenger cars, train sets and more are all expected to be out the door before Christmas. The Moguls have returned from the factory. Customer Service will be checking each one and then sending them back to the original owners - they will likely return to you shortly after the new year.

Unfortunately, that's all the update I have time for as there are Broadway Limited sets in the warehouse awaiting and lunch time is over. Thank you all for making 2018 a fantastic year for us here at Lionel. We are already looking forward to what next year has in store (I've seen the catalog - there's some pretty cool stuff in there!!!) and wish you all a safe, happy, train-filled Merry Christmas!​

So it looks like I stand corrected regarding Lionel's time frame -- at least as it may pertain to the entire "set". Ryan's statement has some conflicting information in that he first states something about 2020 -- which is well into 12-18 months from now -- but then he later mentions pricing and availability are TBD.  The good news is Lionel plans new tooling for the business car, which isn't surprising since the last business car from K-Line was in aluminum. So with Lionel going all ABS now, new tooling is needed for a business car.

Clearly this "pseudo-announcement" from Lionel was a reaction to MTH's announcement yesterday including actual product SKU's for pre-ordering through one of its dealers. So folks have a bit more information to decide which way they wanna go.

For me personally, I had grabbed one of the remaining MTH Railking UP4141's and it just arrived today. So I'll give it a whirl to see how it runs and sounds. Meanwhile, if Lionel is gonna go all out with some specialty items as outlined above, I may spring for that in due time -- especially if we're talking "fiscal year" 2020.  By that time, I'll be well into the mode of just buying specialty items anyway, since my days of buying mass catalog items are now history. Even the best toy train enthusiasts have our limits.... sad to admit.  

Should be interesting to see what Lionel officially announces with pricing... and like I said in an earlier post, a special announcement brochure would be pretty cool in its own right. Neither importer has done that yet.

David


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

I see Pete scooped me on the Lionel announcement.... that's what I get for typing too much of my own comments!!! 

In any event, yet a couple more comments seem in order if I may. Now that both MTH and Lionel have unveiled their 41 plans, I think it's safe to say the eBay shysters have definitely been cut off at the knees... which I personally think is great. People can say all they want about supply/demand and what-not. But I've never been keen on sellers overtly price-gouging toy train enthusiasts or taking advantage of an untimely situation with the latest "hot item".

That being said, I suppose prices for the former GHWB caboose will still escalate into the stratosphere for awhile unless (or until) we see a re-run of the caboose. But since both importers seem to be focusing on the "funeral train" aspect of their respective offerings, there may not be a caboose re-run... which I'm sure will be to the delight of eBay shysters today. So if folks thought $180 was a lot of money for a caboose, I can easily see the 41 commemorative caboose pushing $500 EASILY if there's no re-run in sight... at least for now, of course. 

Keep saying to yourselves.... "moment in time", "moment in time", "moment in time collectible".....  

David


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Good for Lionel for doing some of the special cars but it appears you would have to buy the engine to get the cars.
I don't have much interest in doing a funeral train but would like to make a special train headed by 4141 and 1943 with as many of the business train cars as possible along with a power car.
Maybe MTH will do these but given their history I am not holding my breath. I would think the demand for 18" cars still exceeds the demand for 21" cars.

Pete


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

*Should be interesting to see what Lionel officially announces with pricing... and like I said in an earlier post, a special announcement brochure would be pretty cool in its own right. Neither importer has done that yet.

David*

When Lionel announces the price I am pretty sure you will have to check into a second mortgage on the homestead.

Bill


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> ....
> 
> When Lionel announces the price I am pretty sure you will have to check into a second mortgage on the homestead.
> 
> Bill



Bill, that's why I might just be happy to have the brochure!


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

Just saw a Lionel 4141 on the bay WITH a BID of 4500.00$


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

rdmtgm said:


> Just saw a Lionel 4141 on the bay WITH a BID of 4500.00$


:hah: 

To whoever is going to pay that money


I'll admit it's a good looking locomotive with that paint job (as well as the matching caboose), but no way in hell I'd pay a premium for either. As the Rocky Mountaineer said "moment in time collectible". The price will drop down the road.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-6-34618-George-Bush-UP-LEGACY-SD70-ACe-4141-SEAL-BOX/273600439106


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

*“City of Portland (new dining interiors for the dome), Council Bluffs (open doors and interior of course!), Overland (StationSounds diner), and Kenefick (all new business car tooling.) As a special train, this set will include figures in the interior of all cars and special sound recordings for the diner and locomotive. Also available will be additional.... additional separate sale cars to complement this or the other UP cars released previously and expand your trains. “*

This caught my attention! Especially the Kenefick car! 

Hmmmm....I could buy the set, sell the locomotives for top dollar, & essentially get free passenger cars...what could possibly go wrong? Sarcasm!

Option #2- Sell all my flag cars for top dollar. Buy reissue. Still have Flag car.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

rdmtgm said:


> Just saw a Lionel 4141 on the bay WITH a BID of 4500.00$


Two possibilities: One is it's a shill bid... especially if we're to believe the other 4141 sold yesterday for $3K... this seller could be enticing another buyer to jump in -- suggesting, "Look, you lost your chance to grab one for $3K and now 'somebody' is bidding $4,500 for mine."  Secondly, it's legit. Look... there are folks out there who'd drop $4,500 like most of us drive our cars everyday. And it's possible somebody wants a Lionel version NOW regardless of price -- not in 2020 like us mere mortals. The seller just needs one of those buyers thinking like that, and he or she is good to go.

I'm still skeptical though... leaning toward the former scenario.

David


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

86TA355SR said:


> *“City of Portland (new dining interiors for the dome), Council Bluffs (open doors and interior of course!), Overland (StationSounds diner), and Kenefick (all new business car tooling.) As a special train, this set will include figures in the interior of all cars and special sound recordings for the diner and locomotive. Also available will be additional.... additional separate sale cars to complement this or the other UP cars released previously and expand your trains. “*
> 
> This caught my attention! Especially the Kenefick car!
> 
> ...


Buying the set and selling the engine might work. This sounds like it could be classified a Vision Passenger set especially if they paint the interiors correctly. 
UP had a history of these cars on their website about the funeral train. I found it interesting Kenefick was a native of my home town and after working his way up the ladder to CEO made significant contributions to improving the company.

Pete


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Norton said:


> .... This sounds like it could be classified a Vision Passenger set especially if they paint the interiors correctly.
> UP had a history of these cars on their website about the funeral train. .....


That was my thinking as well, Pete. When I posted a link to the descriptions of the funeral train cars, I mentioned that these interiors would qualify for VisionLine status if Lionel were so inclined. And it appears that could possibly be the case. Time will tell.

On a slightly related note, the NYC VisionLine baggage cars (designed to accompany the VL Niagaras) are hitting dealer stores now, and I'm due to receive mine tomorrow in what appears to be a single-car shipment from Charlie Ro. So we'll see how that stacks up to the VisionLine "brand" for Lionel's first VisionLine passenger car.

David


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

rdmtgm said:


> Just saw a Lionel 4141 on the bay WITH a BID of 4500.00$


Certainly falls under the " there is a sucker born every minute "

Bill


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

Given some of these inflated prices, wouldn't it be better to just make an offer to UP for the original engine?


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2018)

GHWB was indeed a special person. I love the story told by a member of his Secret Service attachment when he found out that one of their kids was fighting cancer and lost his hair. The entire Secret Service attachment shaved their heads and when Bush found out about it, he shaved his head. How many former Presidents would do that?

The commemorative train is only fitting.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

For those of you thinking about the MTH Premier offering, I noticed today in MrMuffin's email blast that orders are due AND it looks like MTH is offering "scale-wheeled" versions of 4141 and the helper loco 9606. I don't recall seeing that in the original announcement. ETA is April 2019.

Decisions.... decisions.... 

David


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