# Mantua Pacific Club



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Today, I visited the Whenham, Ma Train Show. The prize an older Mantua Pacific with a cast boiler and worm drive 5 pole motor. Not real old, the cow catcher and cab are plastic. Perfect condition? HA! I didn"t even asked if it worked. 

I took it apart and went to work. 

The motor, covered with a transaxle grease so I put the ATF to work. It did squeek but soon I got it humming. I used some Q tips and a napkin to work the tight spots. The naptin I just turned the motor to clean the the small clearance between the armature and the field.










With the motor running the drive gear and frame was next.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

If the cab and cow-catcher is plastic, ya got a common one. Musta got a good deal on it! Can't wait to see more. I have 2 Mantua pacific myself. Got the blue-box era Chessie RR for $35 near mint in its box and one that was a paint chip monster for $15!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I worked on one, years back. After that, I had to have one. 










Quite a few nicks so, I removed the rails and will strip next.


Before shots.











I straighten some rods. A small scewdriver worked fine. These have to be straight. I did not have to take them apart either. The dremel wheel cleaned them up too.










The motor in place. The gear box wasn't bad. A little cleaning and oil.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The Tender*

The seller suggested I get nickel silver wheels for better pickpup. Here I have brass. I cleaned the shell and then grinded down the truck to remove the wheels.











Then with the x acto knife I split the piece and worked it off with a small screwdriver. Then I cleaned the frame contant area to the truck.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

I used a 2-56 tap to use in place of the pressed hole/pin set-up. Easier to get the trucks apart later on down the rails.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Excellent junk box find! Soon to be a NON-junk-box treasure! Enjoy the surgery!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

A 2-56 is small, I may go a bit larger.

TJ, I did find this too. A Mantua 890 cab number.





















WIh some cracks











A 2-8-2 I think

ebay


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Oven Cleaner*

Ok strip time with the dollar value oven cleaner. I used a food storage bag and let it sit overnight. Not enought to remove it but it did soften up. SO I went to my two inch fine wire wheel on the drill press at 675 rpm and this is the result.





















I have to go to a dremel for the small areas but WOW I like it.:thumbsup:
I feel like TJ!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Looks like the restoration is comming along great. Keep postin the pics.

Massey


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Looks crisp ... very crisp! So the cab is a separate casting, I see. Stripping that, too?

TJ


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Power to the Mantua Pacific Club members!!!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Congratulations...I joined that club 3 weeks ago myself...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Incredible photo, Shay.

Good inspiration, huh, T-Man ?!?

It's amazing that both of your guys joined the club for peanuts, if I'm recalling your posts correctly. Pennies well spent!

Hey, just out of curiosity ... I see that T-Man's left side cab window is "full paned", whereas Shay's right side cab window is "half paned". Is that the way the (same) cab is made?

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Yes it is that way. Each side is different. As far as mye cab goes it is plastic and will not get repainted. I could use the cast cab from the other shell. Maybe.

Shay nice engine!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Old Mantua Pacifics are great in general. After the remotor, it was just teriffic. I got a hold of a second hand motor from a friend, and she's a belle!!!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Shay, is that a plastic cab? I noticed the numbers are white like mine. The other shell has red and it is a cast. The older one I worked on had red numbers too. I just noticed the difference.

For the trucks I kept the posts and useda 3/32nd drill for a 4-40 tap I went opposite the truck mount, and with the other post intact I only need one screw. Plus I tapped through both pieces. I used a drill press because of the lower rpm. The dremel is too fast and dulls the small drills in metal. But I did make a divet and used the dremel to start the hole.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks guys...

Yes T-man, it's the plastic one.:thumbsup:

I did the same thing to open my tender trucks and found that a press fit back in place is enough for now, I'll keep you drill-n-tap idea on file though


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Primed










Painted
My favorite, wallmart flat black which is more of a satin.










On Trucks I did not epoxy the posts because I may upgrade to nickel silver. It was Tycoman who suggested the screw job. I beleive the posts would holf their own just like the post in the Lionel e unit that keps it altogether.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I like the flat black choice. I did one 1688 in Krylon satin black, and another in Krylon flat black. I prefer the flat much better. It does have some sheen, but just enough to echo a real loco, I think.

TJ


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I like steam engines in flat black too. I have a BLI N&W 611 that is painted in the satin/flat that the engine had when it was in service. BLI offered the same engine painted in glossy black as the engine sits today in the Virginia Museum or Transportation but it just looked too toy like all nice and shiney like that. Flat or satin gets my vote!!

Massey


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The boiler with hand rails.











The cast vs plastic cabs,


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Are those cabs from those two (different) locos actually interchangeable?

Black shell repaint looks great!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

They are the same.

The plastic parts.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, T ... that's interesting that identical cabs are used on two different locos.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks, T ... that's interesting that identical cabs are used on two different locos.


They actually used the same cab on all but the 2-6-6-2 and saddle tankers...









2-6-2 Prairie...









...0-4-0 Shifter...









...2-8-0 series...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow! OK, so here's the obvious question ...

Is it that they used the same cab to keep model fabrication costs simple/easy, or is it that these real-life (protypical) locos would have actually shared the same cab design and fabrication (more or less)?

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Together again*

The motor tested fine. If I was to speculate it was sold because of the bad connection throught the tender. He suggested new wheels. On the test run I needed to press down on the tender. So it is a light weight and electrical connection problem. I cleaned the track that helped a little. A weight on top did the best but the tender does teeter. SO weight on the frame wil help. Then again I only have four wheels instead of six for connection.










A lot of pictures were out of focus so I posted the best one.

Another cab picture for you TJ. It is unpainted and matches the paint.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The other day.*

A fix it story. I was assembling the rails. I cleaned them with a scotch brite pad. One cleat would not move from glue previously used so I left it. It was on the back end. I tapped the cleats in from the front and when I got to the back. Magic! It disappeared. I look on the floor and on the table and used a magnet small and six inch no dice. So today I was working on the tender and Magic again. An appearance! It must have flown on a truck and when I moved them it fell off. So here is the little trouble maker. Shown loose and in place.










I could of used one from my scrap shell but I waited it out.

Another point is to keep track of where screws go if you can place them back in the holes do so. It helped me. I also separate them by location. Tender, shell and frame. Pictures are important too. I should download the manual too.
It didn't take long before I removed a lot of screws. I still have an extra spring that went somewhere. It didn't fit well on the rear truck and the front has one.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

tjcruiser said:


> Wow! OK, so here's the obvious question ...
> 
> Is it that they used the same cab to keep model fabrication costs simple/easy, or is it that these real-life (protypical) locos would have actually shared the same cab design and fabrication (more or less)?
> 
> TJ


It was a money thing...one cab common to all models made for an easy to control parts inventory. You'll note that they are very small compared to a prototype cab...










...in this case, Athearn's model of a B&M prototype. Mantua also used the same motor, be it a switcher or mainline big steam.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Shay -- thanks for the cab clarification.

T-Man -- the loco looks great. Those handrails sparkle against the flat black boiler. Nice!

Hey ... I see the local police help on the case of the missing cleat investigation! 

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Today I ran the engine more. I cleaned the track more and the tender connections. I removed the all plastic axles and run it only four now. I think the plastic in the center o fthe trucks was a trouble area .It helps and I don't have to add weight. It stil runs on the high end of the throttle but I wil guve it another cleaning after a good workout.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

If it's any consolation, T...I'm having the same high end of the throttle problem. Any other loco of mine would be flying of the rails at the settings it takes this one to move under. I've replaced the motor to no avail, I've even improved electrical contact between the track and the motor like so...

I made contacts from round terminals that fit around the bolster, soldered them to wires that feed through just above the truck, added 3 oz. of depleted uranium and polished the brass wheelsets for the best possible pickup...
































...you can see my boo boo T, being a Pacific owner yourself...I've since fixed it. Wonder if any of the others can pick it out.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

shaygetz said:


> ... added 3 oz. of depleted uranium ...




Did you just toss that in there to see if we were paying attention, or did you really acquire/add uranium?!? You gotta be pulling our legs.

I had fun hunting down tungsten weight for my son's pinewood derby car ... very dense material. Dep'l uranium is even more dense, of course, but ... well ...

(Then, again ... Did T-Man build a nuclear reactor in his basement out of some epoxy and some spare parts, and then tossed the spent fuel rods your way?!? )

TJ


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

Depleted uranium is the wave of the future. Shay, I'd bump it to 4.35 oz. that should fix that engine right up!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Just seeing if you all were paying attention...years ago a modeler had an N scale diesel he built called the "Cotton Brute". It weighed 24 ounces, could pull 355 cars without a helper and he said its secret was depleted uranium a.k.a. lead.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The tender pickup wheels go on the left side of the tender. I made the same mistake and just switched the trucks. It was easer than flipping the axles.

The last item on the decay chart of the nuclides for uranium is lead.

Shay does your engine have wipers on the front drive wheels??? Two of my wheels are all metal.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> The last item on the decay chart of the nuclides for uranium is lead.


Now if us steam train fans could find some magic way to turn coal into diamonds, we'd be all set. It's all just carbon, after all, right?!?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

T-Man said:


> Shay does your engine have wipers on the front drive wheels??? Two of my wheels are all metal.


No...current is passed thru the axles to the frame...


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The engine is running on track a voltage of 10. The MRC has a 12 volt output. Some of the early ones had 16 I wonder if this is the problem?

I measured an AHM tender and it had about 10 ohms resistance with nickel silver wheels. The Mantua had 5 or less to the truck but an erratic 100 t 1000 at the wheels. If you tender wipers didn't improve it I would say the voltage needs to be higher. I used an old Tyco transformer when I worked on one last.

So the Tyco has a terminal volage of 17 at full throttle and the MRC is only 11. Big enough difference.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I'll hafta check my output...I have an old Hammant & Morgan transformer from the 60s that I thought would do it, now I'm wondering. My other old school Mantuas use the same motor and run just fine off of it.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have a rod problem they won't stay in the frame slot. They slip and eventually jamb. I may have to wire them in.

The only other adjustment is the scrw that holds the motor in. By moving the motor forward before you tighten may give a little slack to the gears.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

It might be the power pack you have, T...I hooked mine up to my trusty circa 1974 MRC Model 501 Golden Throttlepack and it now runs like a dream...


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Aside from the plastic pieces the rods looked a little skimpy. The area where they lock into the frame is off also.Not very well defined enough to hold the piece in. As it moved it slipped an jammed so I wired them in. I back cut a slot to hold the wire and used wire from a bread twisty.










The slot was there on th rod and that helped. If you notice the wire runs on this side of the knob on the frame. It did slip so I had to wire on the outside of that knob. Two of them are there to keep the piece from sliding in or out. The wire just snugs it up enough to hold.


For speed, the engine is improving. It just needs to be running.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

With the rods in place the engine is running better. I won't need wipers on the tender wheels. I did try a flat spring wedged between the two plates and there was an improvement. The tension was too much for my little screw to hold and it moved and came out. I was going to reshape and thin the spring to reduce the tension. It is not neccessary. My idea was neat since no soldering was involved.


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## Luis Diaz (Jan 10, 2012)

hey guys, I have a Pacific as well same cab number and everything, The problem I have is that when the engine is down on tarck it wont run, and when I take the engine off the track and connect a 9V battery to the motor it runs. So i looked around the engine to find the problem and found that the silver plating on the wheels is chipped, can this be the problem to why it wont move?


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Send it to Shay. He made mine run like it was brand new. Bob is especially adept at working on steamers. pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The wiper contacts to the axle need to be clean and touching. If they are in wrong you lose contact when the wheel moves up from setting it down.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Old thread I know. But, has anyone added weight to the 4-6-2? Mine slips a little too much on a hill I've got.


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