# Lionel 259E



## Kelpieflyer (Jan 9, 2012)

Hey there,

Does anyone have a parts diagram for the Lionel 259E? I'm working on one for my Dad and need to see what goes where.

Thanks,


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

My project thread might help ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3748

Or one of T-Man's threads ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3944

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7350

There's some different equipment (motors, wheels, etc.) used on the 259 locos, depending upon where you are in the 1930's production line.

The Olsen's online library has parts/specs sheets, but I think there website is down at the moment. Check back in a day ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Olsen's is back up.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Jeff of the Train Tender does have some parts with pictures for the 259e.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Direct link to Olsen's 259E sheets ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=778

and the motor ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/b123/001111.pdf

But remember, the motor, wheels, and some other details did change later in the production run.

TJ


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## Kelpieflyer (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the great information. Looks like the one Dad bought was cobbled together from junk. I've narrowed it down to the 1933-34 version. It doesn't have any weights, but I think I'll add some. Can i get repro weights, or should I just see what I can make work?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I discuss 259 weights in detail in post #56 of this thread ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3944

I believe the early version 259's should have one weight inside the steam chest. Later versions two weights: steamchest, and on back "shelf" of cab. See my post.

You can check with Jeff Kane (Train Tender) for repros, but I suspect not. T-Man made a weight for his. Other option is junkers for parts on ebay.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Adding weight should go front and back. Not just one.


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## Kelpieflyer (Jan 9, 2012)

i just checked the frame, and although there are places for weights, there are no indications that it ever had any. No rivets, bolts or even holes where you would think to find them.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The earlier models did not have any. You don't need them but it helps.


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

My 259 (no E) has no weights. My 259E has added weights in the steamchest only; pieces of steel bar cut to fit, drilled, and held in place by a screw through the front of the steam chest.

FWIW, the unweighted 259 will pull at least 10 pre-war cars (including an 820 with both lights on) @ 16-18V.

The best thing you can do for that loco is to completely disassemble the motor: pull the armature, brush plate, and wheels, then clean, inspect and lube as necessary. Clean the commutator face and slots; I replace the brushes as a matter of course. Clean the gears and bearings to remove all old lube and caked in dirt. One big issue with these older locos is worn axles and/or bearings. If your wheels wobble, something's shot. It will still run, but not as smoothly. Granted, replacing bearings is a big step, but it can pay big dividends.

OTOH, be careful if you disassemble the body. Those tabs are a PITA -- and one big reason that (IMHO) the die-cast steamers (257, 258, 26X) are a much more sensible pursuit. 

Finally, don't forget to overhaul the cars also. I remove the axles and wheels, clean and polish both, then lightly lube and reassemble. Example: I ran a 259E and a 610/612 pair under the tree. Before cleaning, it was a fitful journey around at 18-20V. After doing nothing but cleaning the two cars, it runs smoothly at 14V. Example 2: before cleaning, the 259 would pull 4-5 freight cars. After cleaning the cars, it will handle 10+.

IMHO, most of these are locos are in fine shape once given a thorough cleaning. The motors themselves are almost bulletproof. They often need rewired, but the big wear items are the axles and bearings. Yeah, it's a pain to replace them (and a bit of a buy-in for the tools), but the performance payoff is tremendous.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Konga Man said:


> ...the big wear items are the axles and bearings. Yeah, it's a pain to replace them (and a bit of a buy-in for the tools), but the performance payoff is tremendous.


For anyone interested, there's a lengthy discussion / examples of bearing replacement (on a Lionel Jr motor) in this thread, posts 51 thru 85 ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6521

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Man everyone's got an 259 with the E and without.

We got to make a new forum spot dedicated to the 259 soon.

I feel left out, _I _got to get one now.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Man everyone's got an 259 with the E and without.
> 
> We got to make a new forum spot dedicated to the 259 soon.
> 
> I feel left out, _I _got to get one now.


Do those have TMCC or MTH DCS installed?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed's right ... he (and John!) need to join the all-exlusive 259 Club!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'll take mine with the ERR TMCC installed.


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> For anyone interested, there's a lengthy discussion / examples of bearing replacement (on a Lionel Jr motor) in this thread, posts 51 thru 85 ...
> 
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6521
> 
> TJ


One suggestion that I would make on that: after peening the new bearings in place, run a reamer through both sides at once (like an axle). This will give you a perfectly round, straight path for the axle and remove any burrs, etc. left over from the peening. FWIW, I use a .180" reamer for the O motors.

And again, don't forget to check the axles. Worn and/or bent axles are not uncommon. I make new ones from drill rod; .180" for O locos. You can always buy them for ~$1.25 each, but 3' of rod is only about $2.50. That's a lot of 1.75" axles.

Finally, check the clearances and spacing between gears, wheels, frame, etc. Judicious use of thin spacers (~.010") and/or light filing can make a big difference in alignment and performance. Ever seen a frame with gear marks on it? That ain't good. Better to move those gears out a little so they don't rub -- then check that they're not rubbing on the back side of the wheel.

Once thing that I've found that helps: get some slightly undersize rod (~.175") to use as a pseudo axle when checking all of this. It allows you to test fit and alignment before you commit to pressing the components together.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good tips!

A question re: your custom axles from raw stock...

What do you do to the ends of the axles in way of where they fit into the wheels? I've seen that old (prewar) Lionel axles were simply smooth rods. Newer axles have splined (ridgy) ends in way of where they fit into the wheels. When I install the old axles, I often squeeze the ends in the jaw of a Vice Grips just a bit ... this adds a few tiny microbumps to the axle end, inducing a tighter / better-friction fit into the axle. I'm not sure it this is "normal" practice, though. On the newer (splined) axles, I'll file the (slightly oversized) spline end with an ever-so-slight taper, so that the friction-fit gets tighter as the axles is pressed into the wheel. These are learn-as-you-go practices on my part, though. I'd be curious for any tricks here that you have.

TJ


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> What do you do to the ends of the axles in way of where they fit into the wheels? I've seen that old (prewar) Lionel axles were simply smooth rods. Newer axles have splined (ridgy) ends in way of where they fit into the wheels.


High tech: after cutting to length, I chuck them up in a drill, then round them over on a grinder to give them a rough shape. Following that, I repeat the process on a belt sander running a worn 220 belt to polish them a bit.

Since all I'm dealing with is prewar, smooth is fine. In fact, I've found that many axles which have been squared/splined/smashed to increase the grip on the wheel won't fit through a properly sized bearing because the reshaping changes the diameter (which is what it's supposed to do).

If the fit on the wheel is sloppy, I prefer to address it at the wheel (which is where the problem really is). You can always peen the inside end of the hole to create a ridge to give it more grip. That may be enough, but it doesn't always work if the entire bore is oversized. If you want to do it right, drill/ream the hole to .186" or so, then press in a length of 3/16" brass tube. You can then drill/ream that section to .178" or so, which should give you a great press fit on a .180" axle. And of course, there's always JB Weld if you're sure you've got everything right. 

OTOH, some jobs are better off outsourced. For example, the various car axles that are peened to keep the wheels in place. I haven't figured out a good way to do that, so I buy them. For the price of a new, splined axle, that might be a better choice.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Konga,

Thanks for your insightful response, above ... much appreciated. I've enjoyed fiddling with this prewar stuff a bit, but there's still lots to learn ... lots to learn!

TJ


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## Kelpieflyer (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice. I have completely cleaned and lubed the engine and replaced a few bad wires. It runs and cycles great.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That's great news! Happy running!

TJ


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