# Lionel 2338 drive wheels locked



## hudson

I dug out some old engines that have not been out of the box for at least 20 years. Two of them, a 2338 and 2339 both have the same problem, the motors are locked or frozen. If I loosen the truck and slide it almost off the wheels turn so I guess it is the motor. Any suggestions? I don't remember having a problem with these in the past.

Thanks for any help,

Nick


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## santafe158

Whatever grease they were last lubed with probably solidified. I'd take it all apart, clean the old grease and dirt out and a lot of guys swear by automotive engine oil to lube them up again. I haven't tried it myself, but I'd imagine it would work well.


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## Big Ed

Were they stored in a humid area?
I guess you took the batteries out before putting them away back then right?

Don't they have a worm gear? If so that doesn't get the oil but lube instead.
I believe it is the white lithium grease that is recommended. I will go and check.
Lionel grease that they used back then hardened up almost like cement. :smilie_daumenneg:

Clean all the grease you can and use 5/20 or 5/30 motor oil. Just a few drops will do it, what grease you don't get the motor oil will break down.

Maybe the armature assembly is rusted too?

Probably they both just need a good cleaning and service job.


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## gunrunnerjohn

First thing I'd do is remove the motor and make sure the truck gears are free. Then you can see if the motor is frozen. You can separate the motor brush plate and remove the armature, clean everything up and then reassemble. These are actually very easy to work on, and I suspect once cleaned and lubed, they'll run like new, it's almost impossible to kill them. 

Here's a page with an exploded view of the unit: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2338.htm

As you can see, there is a single motor mounting screw that holds the motor in place.


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## Big Ed

Yes T man said he used a lithium grease and I think servoguy said that too, only on the worm gear, one guy said he found that this, Gunslick Graphite (anhydrous, paste graphite) worked great.

Everything else gets the motor oil.
A few drops will do it, don't over oil.

Someone also mentioned that transmission fluid on the bearings will loosen the grease better then motor oil if you let it soak for a while.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, if I find a lot of crud in the trucks of an old unit, I use carb cleaner. It will dissolve almost anything, including your fingers!


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## hudson

As usual, a lot of good advice. The battery compartments are clean, I don't know that I ever put batteries in them. I'm not great at repairs but the advice here has helped me in the past. I'll take it slow and post the results when I finish.

Nick


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## hudson

Thanks, and once again the Forum has come through. I posted one of the numbers wrong, the 2338 is actually a 2328 and I worked on that one first. Sure enough, it was gummed up, not hard as a rock but more like road tar, cleaned it out, used the gun grease on the worm gear and motor oil on the others, put power to it and off it went forward and reverse. Just have to buy a couple D batteries to check out the horns but the compartment is very clean.

Thanks again, I'll get on the other ones soon and also have a couple very old locomotives doint the same thing, might need some advice later on how to get them apart.

Thanks

Nick


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## gunrunnerjohn

I love it when a plan comes together.  Glad to see it was an easy fix.


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## hudson

Now comes the next one, didn't go as well, I went directly to a 2349 as it was next in the box. Same problem, took it apart, cleaned, oiled, greased. The wheels now turn freely, the motor spins freely by hand, put power to the motor and it just turns 1/4" and then stops. Cleaned the brushes, put it back together, same thing, it just jerks about 1/4" forward and reverse, then stops and humms but I can spin the worm gear very easily by hand. Any suggestions for the next step? I'm now getting way beyond my mechanical/electrical ability.

Nick


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## gunrunnerjohn

Are you testing the motor by itself? If so, you might check to see if there is some junk in between the commutator face segments, might be causing a short. If you're putting it back in the truck and it's doing this, there's probably something stuck in one of the teeth of the mating gear to the worm gear.


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## hudson

I'm testing the motor by itself. I just went in with a good light and even a magnifying glass and it looks very clean inside. It jerks and then just humms. Is there something else inside besides the brushes that could be shorting it or causing it to stop? Can there be a problem with the brushes or springs?

Nick

Nick


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, if the springs are weak, that could certainly cause what you see. Brushes and springs are cheap if you suspect them at all, replace them. One other issue could be an open coil in the armature. To test this, use an ohmmeter and measure between each adjacent commutator section. You should get very similar readings all the way around, if any reading varies, you may have an open winding on the armature. 

Finally, make sure the bearings are tight and not worn out so the armature can rub the frame, that could be an issue, and it would stop the motor in the manner described.


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## hudson

John, That a lot to digest for a novice repairman. I'll try everything step by step and hope the motor doesn't fall apart completely when I take out the springs, etc. which I will order. Do you know if the springs and brushes are the same for the 2321, 2328, 2329, and 2349 as I might as well order a few sets if they are?

Thanks again,

Nick


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'm not sure, but many of those motors in the same time period used the same springs and brushes.


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## sjm9911

I'm thinking maybe the communicator isn't set in properly. Maybe try taking it apart again and put it back together. Or maybe the motor has a washer that fell out at one end. I had a he'll of a time once trying to get a motor to run. It had a washer that I didn't see or was removed prior to my trying to fix it. I found out I was missing this washer after taking the engine apart several times and looking at the diagrams for the eng. Not much help but it could be a start.


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## gunrunnerjohn

It's quite possible there are missing parts, that happens.


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## hudson

It's strange, I can spin the worm gear and it spins like a top, so I don't think there is anything rubbing on it to stop or bind it. I'll be off the project until after the weekend and I'll update as I progress. I'm having trouble staying logged in, evertime I leave one forum and go to the next I'm automatically logged out even though I check the "Keep Me Logged In" box, does it on both of my computers and my Ipad.

Thanks again, I'll be back in a few days,

Nick


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## gunrunnerjohn

The automatic log out usually happens if you have your browser clear cookies on exit, of you have some sort of cookie manager that does the same thing.


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## hudson

I got back on it today, cleaned everything up good, saw a loose wire and added a little solder, put it on the tracks and off it went. Now if I can find the shell mounting screw I'll be in good shape. Thanks again for all of the replies.

Nick


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