# Lionel HO?



## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

The September issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist ([email protected]) reports that Lionel is negotiating to purchase tooling to begin manufacturing HO trains.

Made in America by Lionel, WILL it return to the original high quality of this once-great company? Will it lower the prices of other HO equipment now that there's more competition?

I was surprised to learn that Lionel currently offers an HO Polar Express train set.


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

Lionel Trains
August 10 at 8:05 AM ·
SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!

Lionel is pleased to announce that it has agreed to a deal with ATI Model Products Inc., doing business as Model Power, to acquire a broad range of model train tooling used to produce the Model Power/Mantua product lines. Final details of the agreement are being worked through and the tooling is expected to transfer to Lionel in September of 2018. No previously produced product is contemplated in the transaction. This strategic acquisition will accelerate Lionel’s expansion in the HO category, while adding complementary products and accessories to other portions of its business. More details will be shared as they become available.

Mantua was founded/owned by John Tyler. Company operated out of Woodbury Heights, NJ. They started to market ready to run sets under the name Tyco (TYler COmpany) and the individual stuff (including kits) under "Mantua". They gobbled up other toy companies and then were gobbled up by other entities in the 70's and 80's (including Sara Lee).

The train business was purchased back by the Tyler family in 1977 and they re-entered the market under Mantua label. Mantua was acquired by Model Power which was in turn acquired by MRC.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The high quality of lionel you speak of never appeared in lionel HO. My experience 
was their stuff was pretty much junk. They are having trouble with their O scale
stuff today. Many problems with new releases. I agree their older O scale was top notch.

I am not expecting much from their new HO releases.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I agree. The Lionel H.O. line was junk, so I don't know where "original high quality" came from.....

They'll really have to up their game to compete with the H.O. stuff of today, and I doubt they can do that and keep the price reasonable....


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I have a Challenger in Lionel HO from their second foray into that scale around 2000 or so. Mine has limited details applied to it, so it's not really competitive with the typical BLI, Rivarossi, or Proto 2000 pre-Walthers, but it's a smooth and quiet mechanism, heavy (all metal), nicely painted and decaled, and it has a good QSI sound installation with two diagonally mounted 1.25" speakers installed in the metal tender. I have had it for 13 years now, and it still works like a Swiss clock. 

I did some research prior to acquiring this model and learned that some people claimed that the valve gear would occasionally bind, so I had mine verified by the retailer's technician, and he personally checked it.

The current Mantua product line are apparently decent runners and reasonably reliable, but the detailing is sub-standard. Perhaps Lionel has some ideas about how to make a more successful THIRD foray into HO scale.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

You're right, Mopac. I was referring to the O gauge Lionels of my childhood. In the 1950's and 1960's Lionel was a high-quality producer.

Mesenteria, I'm glad your Lionel HO loco turned out so well. It sounds like Lionel had (and still has) problems with quality control--both good and bad products go out.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I really have no experience with anything except 3rail O.
It appears to me that almost every importer of 3R O is
having quality control problems according to various 
forum reports.
After saying that I must report that I have had no problems
with any of my stuff other than traction tires on locos sold
by Lionel, Williams, K-Line, RMT and Atlas. I also will admit 
that I have only three locos with TMCC that I operate
conventionally and none of my locos cost over $300.00.
All of my locos except several post war models were 
purchased new.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

I have a suspicion that this might be (or at least will begin as) Lionels way of putting out more HO scale train sest with the "Lionel" name on sale at Christmastime. Maybe it'll grow beyond that but it may be a bit and I don't think it will be made in America.

The thing to look at is what kind of tooling that Lionel might be acquiring from MRC. MRC has Model Power, Mantua, and a few other brands. Not junk but it's fairly basic and AFAIK there's nothing there that is state-of-the art. 

I don't have quite as tough a view of early Lionel HO scale as some, but it was more in the affordable camp and was manufactured by other makers. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same. Classic tooling with moderately upgraded features. MRC has not been idle with the Mantua brand. Sure the tooling isn't much different, but they've been incorporating budget-level DCC and sound into some of those locos.

Personally, I'm hoping that we see the re-release of the old Mantua F7 A/B tooling at a not-exorbitant price. It's not fancy, but it had been a nice source of affordable F7 A's and B's in a wide range of schemes and it's basic 8 axle power was fairly smooth and reliable for a "budget" loco. I think it's a step up from the Model Power F2's they currently sell.


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

mopac said:


> The high quality of lionel you speak of never appeared in lionel HO. My experience
> was their stuff was pretty much junk. They are having trouble with their O scale
> stuff today. Many problems with new releases. I agree their older O scale was top notch.
> 
> I am not expecting much from their new HO releases.


I agree with everything you wrote.

I've almost purchased the Polar Express 0 gauge several times but when I actually look it over I pass. Amazon constantly has a large number of returns. One can usually get a returned Polar 0 for about 70 to $100 off their regular price for new. 


Overall I'm not impressed by the model trains made since the mid 60's. I'm probably alone on this, but, to me most of the stuff today looks cheap. Seeing big layouts today is almost depressing because I recall the 40's and 50's.


I follow the various meets held around the state. I get to meet some great old-timer Lionel guys and I get some great deals on 0 gauge goodies...you can't beat it.


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