# Need help



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

My K335 is a poor smoker, always has been, even after a smoke unit rebuild. This is what I found.. When I have the engine in neutral, the head-light is nice and bright, really heating up the fluid. However, when I go from neutral to either forward or reverse, the light grows dim, but the engine still runs good. This is why the engine isn't a very good smoker as it's not getting enough juice to the smoke unit. Field is good, armature is fine, no wires are touching each other or the boiler shell. Somewhere, when the engine goes into either direction, I'm losing power....but it's not affecting the speed of the engine...


----------



## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

flyernut said:


> My K335 is a poor smoker, always has been, even after a smoke unit rebuild. This is what I found.. When I have the engine in neutral, the head-light is nice and bright, really heating up the fluid. However, when I go from neutral to either forward or reverse, the light grows dim, but the engine still runs good. This is why the engine isn't a very good smoker as it's not getting enough juice to the smoke unit. Field is good, armature is fine, no wires are touching each other or the boiler shell. Somewhere, when the engine goes into either direction, I'm losing power....but it's not affecting the speed of the engine...


Did you try a different bulb or run it without one to check smoke output and see if there is a change? Could be a bad bulb housing or bulb. Since this a 5 wire, the smoke unit and bulb are running off the reverse unit and the left brush. The rear truck is the source for the fifth wire. It sounds like a poor connection at the reverse unit or top fingers. Remember that the bulb and smoke unit in neutral won't draw that much and will function until the motor is running which draws current away. Double check those connections and maybe with the tender shell off you can jump a wire from the rear rivet to the fifth wire at the plug bypassing the reverse with a dedicated wire to see if that improves the bulb and smoke. Here's a diagram if you need one. Hope this helps. We'll get it straightened out.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

My northern has quit smoking also. It was a good smoker. Ran it yesterday and this morning.
No smoke. Maybe its a winter thing. None in neutral, so coil may be broken on mine.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Is the bulb a 14 or 18 volt?


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I would think it is normal for the motor to draw juice in forward or reverse and
dim the headlight some.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

When in neutral the light plus the smoke unit draw a little less than .5A. When running the draw is between 2A and 2.5A. One of two things is happening. The usual cause is one or more of the fingers is worn or not in firm contact with the drum. Given you have the reversing unit in perfect shape that leaves as the likely cause broken strands in one or more of the 4 jacketed wires between the tender and engine. On some engines this is rainbow wire. Over time some of the fine strands in the wires will fail from flexing.
My original 322AC developed this problem so I temporarily added two bypass wires until I can replace the entire harness.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Knowing flyernut, he has already replaced the harness. I replaced the harness on my northern. I know some people like the cloth covered wires, I like the plastic covered wires. I do not like all the fuzz with the cloth.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

New brushes, new springs, re-faced armature, new wiring harness, cleaned, oiled, greased, etc. I'm going to swap out the tenders with another Northern and see what happens... Quick update...definitely in the tender of the k335. I put my 336 tender on the K335 engine chassis, and the light is nice and bright in neutral, as well as in forward and reverse... I've got 3 Northerns all apart on the work-bench!!


----------



## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

Maybe replace the wires with superflex?


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Chuck7612 said:


> Maybe replace the wires with superflex?


That's all I use, 22 and/or 24 ga.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Several years ago when I got this engine, I replaced the old tattered, original wiring harness with a new one I made up.. I never noticed the dim head-light, but I did notice the lack of good smoke. All my engines smoke like a hippie, so last year I replaced the original with a newly-built unit that smoked like crazy. It still didn't smoke very well, so I put it aside and said someday...Well, I just got a 295 Pacific, and the air chime whistle is missing from the tender.. I have a air chime whistle in my 332AC that's not supposed to have one.. So while messing with the 332, I grabbed my K335 off the shelf and decided today was the day. I tore the engine down, and noticed when in neutral, the head-light shown brightly, and it smoked pretty good, but when I put it in a direction, barely a wisp of smoke and a dull head-light. That means a short or not enough power getting to the unit and head-light. No matter what I did to the chassis, I couldn't get the 2 things to work properly, hence my call for help. I swapped out the K335 tender with my 336 and..BANG.. a beautiful bright light and tons of smoke.. So the trouble is in the tender.. Pulled the tender down and checked all my wiring, and it was all correct. Now, back to several years ago, I did a quick and dirty harness change and soldered the new harness to the old existing wires.. I pulled apart the tape I put around the wires, and as I pulled the last piece of tape off the joint, I saw I only had about 2 strands of wire still connected. Put on a new harness I made up and she's smoking and lighting like the day it was made. Those 2 strands just couldn't carry the needed juice to the front of the engine,(smoke unit and head-light).. Thanks to all who lent some great advice.. I had to walk away from it last night, or else I would have tossed it against the wall,lol.. Well, maybe not a Northern, but probably a 302,lol.. Thanks again, now to put it all back together.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It really feels good when the fix is finished!


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Glad you found the problem. Smoke em if you got em.


----------



## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Glad you got it figured out.:thumbsup: My bad for thinking you had already done an overhaul on the engine and the harness was new.  Nice call Tom, you nailed it.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

cramden said:


> Glad you got it figured out.:thumbsup: My bad for thinking you had already done an overhaul on the engine and the harness was new.  Nice call Tom, you nailed it.


The harness was new, but I was in a hurry years ago when I replaced it.All those wires and speakers and things scared me a little, and I took the easy way out. It was a learning curve, just like everything else in life.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyer said:


> When in neutral the light plus the smoke unit draw a little less than .5A. When running the draw is between 2A and 2.5A. One of two things is happening. The usual cause is one or more of the fingers is worn or not in firm contact with the drum. Given you have the reversing unit in perfect shape that leaves as the likely cause broken strands in one or more of the 4 jacketed wires between the tender and engine. On some engines this is rainbow wire. Over time some of the fine strands in the wires will fail from flexing.
> My original 322AC developed this problem so I temporarily added two bypass wires until I can replace the entire harness.


Yep, when I replaced the tender with another one, I knew the problem was in the tender and not the engine. When I saw the cob job I did years ago, I figured I would replace the new harness with another new harness, but this time, I would wire it to the appropriate positions, not to the old and fragile wire. Live and learn..


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Good Job, and a lesson for all.:appl:


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

AmFlyer did nail the problem. I can't believe my guru did a half a$$ job with a harness.
Just kidding (not really). Glad you got it right now. That's something for all of us to learn.
I get something new every day here.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> AmFlyer did nail the problem. I can't believe my guru did a half a$$ job with a harness.
> Just kidding (not really). Glad you got it right now. That's something for all of us to learn.
> I get something new every day here.


Yep he did...


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Better to be lucky than good.
Its now Christmas Eve. I hope all your American Flyer trains are running well. I put a large loop of track on my office floor so I can run the Christmas boxcar train while doing things like these postings.


----------

