# need more smoke



## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

AMERICAN FLYER SOUTHERN BERKSHIRE FLYERCHIEF PLUS- 
Does not put out enough smoke. Bought new and has no time on it.
Any ideas? Using 18vt ac transformer.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

AmFlyer runs those lionel engines he might know. I have no clue.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Jwh2000 said:


> AMERICAN FLYER SOUTHERN BERKSHIRE FLYERCHIEF PLUS-
> Does not put out enough smoke. Bought new and has no time on it.
> Any ideas? Using 18vt ac transformer.


One word....Lionel...I have a Lionel Big Boy , bought new, that just doesn't smoke as well as I would like. ALL of my post-war flyer steam engines will put the Big Boy to shame...And it has been back several times to the dealer.....


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Here is a picture of my FlyerChief Northern running at 12V. I was using Supersmoke when this picture was taken. The newer Berkshire I have smokes more than this. I have switched to Challenger smoke fluid sold by Goldinhands. It is less viscous and has the original Gilbert scent. The Challenger fluid produces more smoke than Supersmoke in these engines, I have not tried it yet in original Gilbert engines.
Make sure you put in enough fluid. When low I add about 20 drops, wait a few minutes and add another 10. I always add 6 to 10 drops after the engine sits unused for several days. Using the Challenger smoke fluid in my Berkshire at 14V produced about twice the smoke volume as in the picture. I find this more than enough.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's a Makido on the outside track, this is my kind of smoke.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Here is a picture of my Y3 taken before I switched smoke fluids. The Lionel flyer engines really smoke well when the unit is filled with fluid. With 2 of these engines running I need the the House HVAC system fan continuously running to be able to stay in the room.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I like that John! Some of my engines come close but nothing that good! Your engine seems to have a more powerful fan than any of my S gauge engines. Can you mod an S gauge engine to do this?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Probably can Tom, just never tried. That was a customer's locomotive, he was pretty happy with the smoke. 

All of my smoke work is typically command operation with a constant 18 volts on the track, makes doing some of this stuff easier.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I run all Legacy Command, 14V. At 18V the heat from the bulbs distorts the plastic of the original Gilbert cars.
I bet the customer was happy with that engine!
I can send you an engine if you want to try a mod. Others who do S gauge mods tell me the space is the limitation. The light Mikado’s in particular are almost impossible, just too small.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

With Legacy, you should have constant power to the smoke unit, though it is better at 18 volts. You might consider sticking a diode in the Gilbert cars to allow full track voltage and still keep the bulbs from getting too hot.


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

"One word....Lionel..."

I disagree. I have many post war Gilbert and many Flyonel. The Flyonel consistently out smoke my best Gilbert steamers.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

John, I have tried setting a ZW-L output to full voltage on a track with just my Legacy Y-3. I did not see an obvious difference in smoke output back when I did this test. When I get home next week I am going to try again now that I am using a different and less viscous smoke fluid than the old Supersmoke.
All of my fan driven smoke units make more smoke than any of the original Gilbert style smoke units.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm sure most of the fan driven smoke should be more than the original Gilbert smoke units!  

For Legacy, it's hard to change the heat in the smoke chamber, so you're relegated to improving the airflow, the wick, etc. If your unit has the thermistor temperature sensor in the smoke unit, it may be out of position. Too close to the resistor and you won't get optimum smoke. Too far away, and you'll end up cooking things.


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## AFnew2 (Aug 28, 2016)

*smoke*

Where do you get the Smoke fluid from? Does Goldinhands have a web site? I cant find much info on it.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

What are the disadvantages of using plan old mineral oil?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Smoke fluid isn't so expensive that using the correct stuff is prohibitive. I see no reason to try to substitute smoke fluid.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Smoke fluid isn't so expensive that using the correct stuff is prohibitive. I see no reason to try to substitute smoke fluid.


Thanks John! Except that I have two bottles of unused mineral oil and I am prone to DIY. However I do like the odor of my Cedar and Coal Smoke Fluid.


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