# Scale differences



## Motorbones (Nov 14, 2014)

Ok.. Since I haven't been doing this all that long, I've come to notice that my so called "O scale" trains seem to come in two different sizes. My Lionel Santa Claus Express locomotive and cars appear a bit smaller than most my other Lionel stuff. I've heard that there are actually 2 different O scales. Could someone please explain what they are? I'd appreciate it. Thanks....


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Look at the sticky on the top of the o scale threads . Its its all there.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Here is a good thread on scale variances in 'O' (Zero Gauge):

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5126

O is really a gauge, that is the distance between the two outside rails is always the same. The size of the rolling stock is all over the map.:smokin:


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## Motorbones (Nov 14, 2014)

Took a look at the thread. Things seem a bit clearer now. It's kinda like having two different scale trains that run on the same track...


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

In the MTH line there are several "sizes".

RailKing is about the same size as Lionel O-27 and is smaller than Lionel "O" scale and NOT 1:48 scale. Most of its engines will operate on O-31 31 inch diameter track and switches.

RailKing Scale is modeled at 1/4 inch to the foot or 1:48 scale which is close to Lionel "O" gage. Most engines operate on O-31 31 inch diameter track and switches. They have more details than just RailKing trains.

Premier is about the same size a Lionel "O" gage and is at the 1:48 scale. Some but NOT all will operate on O-31 track or switches. These are the most detailed.

MTH also makes toy trains that are even less to scale that RailKing stuff.

It looks funny when RailKing trains are run with Premier trains. RailKing Scale Trains look fine with Premier trains.

LDBennett


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, most Railking stuff is larger than Lionel traditional, but smaller than the true 1:48 scale stuff. However, some RailKing pieces are true scale size, I can think of many of their switching locomotives as well as their 70 ton ore cars as specifics.

I've never heard of "Railking Scale", but there is a RailKing Imperial line. It's not necessarily scale, it's just has better detailing and more features than the basic RailKing line.

MTH also has the Rugged Rails line which is, in many cases, smaller than the RailKing offerings. I can think of the F3 locomotives in particular, they're at least an inch shorter than the RailKing line.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

John:

This is out of the 2015 catalog but it was in the 2014 one as well, if I remember correctly.

LDBennett


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

O "scale" in the USA is 1:48. Also commonly referred to as 1/4" scale. 

1/4 inch is equal to one foot in this scale so this is an easily measured scale if you need that kind of accuracy.

Most of my 'people' for example are holdovers from Grandpa's 'Standard' scale days. So each one measures about 8 feet tall by 1:48 standards (2 inches).hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's a new entry, I forgot about those. They would indeed be 1:48 scale.


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## Big Jim Mac (Dec 21, 2014)

Wow, confusing world we live in! I'm not to worried about the scale as much as I am about the rails themselves. What's got me stumped is all of the different switch designations. Can someone clear that up for me? Are the various numbers for the curve radius? I checked my rails and they are O-27 based on the height. I'm in the market for some switches but I'm reluctant to get too deep into O-27 for fear I'll want to run larger stock that won't like those rails. Thoughts?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Big Jim Mac said:


> Wow, confusing world we live in! I'm not to worried about the scale as much as I am about the rails themselves. What's got me stumped is all of the different switch designations. Can someone clear that up for me? Are the various numbers for the curve radius? I checked my rails and they are O-27 based on the height. I'm in the market for some switches but I'm reluctant to get too deep into O-27 for fear I'll want to run larger stock that won't like those rails. Thoughts?


Then you want to get rid of the O/27 track and go with the larger O track.
You won't have to worry about running the larger trains. 
A lot of the trains have problems running through the O/27 style switches.









O/27 starts with the 27 in the picture.
O starts a little larger with the 31 in the picture.

The number after the O is a size of a circle the track would make, take O/72 that circle would measure 72" across. O/27 is 27" across. 31, 31" 42, 42" etc.

Figure out what you want O or O/27 track and then we can get into the curves.



I have all O/27 track and switches on this part of my layout, the largest curve they make in the tube track for O/27 is an 54" curve.
A lot of O trains would not be able to navigate the switches like this, they would derail or jump the switch.
I made this to show that O/27 switches do work.......for certain trains but not all would go through so smooth as this locomotive does.







If I started all over I would choose O track.
Figure out what you want and then we will take it from there.


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## Big Jim Mac (Dec 21, 2014)

Great video. That is a really tight turn! I really like your layout, you put a lot of stuff in a small area. What are the dimensions? Right now my motive stock is just an NW-2 so I think I'll work with the O-27 stuff at least for awhile. Lots of work to do on transformer, etc.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

Big Jim Mac:

Its my opinion that you are severely limiting your train choices by sticking with O-27. If you go to Lionel FasTrack you can pick switches and curves more inline with a much wider choice of engines.FasTrack tightest curves are O-36, I believe. Even that is limiting. The bigger engines require curves in the 40+ inch variety.

For example, most MTH RailKing stuff operates on O-31 (Lionel O-36 equivalent). Little of the Premier line in larger engines operates on anything less than O-42 and some will only operate on O-72.

What ever you do do not move to MTH ReaTrax. I have it and it is junk. The rails mis-align (no alignment pins) and the switches are terrible. I am told that the Lionel FasTrack is the snap together track system to use.

Note: the number after the "O" is the diameter of the curved sections of each track system. Also I see even Target sells Lionel FastTack.

LDBennett


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Fastrack now has O31 track, introduced last year.


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## Big Jim Mac (Dec 21, 2014)

So what do you all think of the Fastrack sets that are sold on eBay? They run about $175 which seems to be in line with what they sell at the local Hobby Shop.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

big jim mac said:


> great video. That is a really tight turn! I really like your layout, you put a lot of stuff in a small area. What are the dimensions? Right now my motive stock is just an nw-2 so i think i'll work with the o-27 stuff at least for awhile. Lots of work to do on transformer, etc.



The round house part is 8'x8', with the L (where the mountain is) is around 4'x5', I plan on running down the wall to the other side. One of these years.
Nothing done yet. I am stuck on a return loop over there. I may hinge a piece on the wall over there so when it is not in use I can fold it up to the wall. 
I have not touched it in a while, I do run the trains some sometimes.
And I do have a thousand projects to finish too.
Some of these pictures might be a little old, the extension running down the wall is older. I have added to it over there since these shots.


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## gumguy (Feb 11, 2014)

I have a question concerning 042 designation. Since MTH does not have 036 track but Lionel does, has anyone tried to run any 042 MTH Locomotives on 036 track?


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

The limits are because the wheel flanges of engines with multiple drivers may bind up in tight turns. For rolling stock parts of the cars undercarriage may interfere with the truck assemblies in the tight turns. It is not uncommon in my experience for the engines and rolling stock to even be problematical on recommended turn diameters. It is probably not wise to expect an O-42 designated train to operate flawlessly on O-36 curves. 

I have "fixed" some rolling stock by shimming the body of the car up on the trucks. I have had to grind away some of the under carriage to get trucks enough clearance. But making engines work on tighter curves is probably not feasible without removing flanges from some of the drivers. That is beyond what most of us here can do. I will add that every bit of rolling stock and engines I have on my layout are rated for the tightest curve track on my layout yet some had problems.

LDBennett


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## gumguy (Feb 11, 2014)

Thanks Lynn. Easy to visualize what you are referring to.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

From some one who is slowly replacing the Lionel with the mth railking I gotta say railking is definitely larger than traditional Lionel. Definitely get a more scale feel with a smaller package


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

There is one very important difference between Lionel style "O" guage and other model railroad scales and ratios. That difference is in how curves are measured. In most scales we speak in terms of the RADIUS of the curve; Lionel chose to measure their curves in terms of the smallest circle that could be made using their sectional track- effectively, the diameter of the circle. Another major Lionel difference between their "O" and "O27" guage sets in the postwar years was the shape and height of the track, ties, and other accessories. Sort of like the code wars in HO and N guage today. Don't get too deep into .027 switches and accessories; some, maybe most, Lionel and Marx will run on them; more recent higher end locos may be less forgiving- and that's if everything is "O" to begin with, so plan accordingly.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

Big Jim Mac said:


> Wow, confusing world we live in! I'm not to worried about the scale as much as I am about the rails themselves. What's got me stumped is all of the different switch designations. Can someone clear that up for me? Are the various numbers for the curve radius? I checked my rails and they are O-27 based on the height. I'm in the market for some switches but I'm reluctant to get too deep into O-27 for fear I'll want to run larger stock that won't like those rails. Thoughts?


 You are at the point right now with 027 where most of us have been. Most of us wish we would have started with the standard 0 gauge 31 radius track with bigger radius options. To me track is track but when you bring switches into the game ( which most of us do ) the 0 gauge switches are a lot better and more engines navigate them better. 
I got into 027 last year with mostly the 42 radius curves and I actually like the look of the 027 track better than the 0 but the old style 0 gauge switches seem to be everyones favorite. If you look at a 027 and an 0 switch side by side you can see what I mean.
Bigger radius track on the outer track quickly starts to limit your capabilities of what more you can do on the inside tracks if you want to get as much on a board as possible. 
Lots of the accessories work out better if the radiuses are the same between loops as well. It all boils down to space and money in the long run but try not to get caught up thinking you want all the big engines that only run on the bigger track, they get old quick with all the finicky problems that goes along with them. 
If I had it to do over it would be all 0 gauge 31 radius tube track everywhere with their corresponding switches. There are lots of bigger engines that will run on 31 radius and for me it's just better not to worry about the bigger stuff that won't.


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