# Artificial grass as base



## yeshess (11 mo ago)

I am starting a new layout and was thinking of using this as my base and then cork roadbed and then track.

Artificial grass

Do you think this is a good idea? Pros and cons?

Thanks


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Not for anything smaller than O.


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## yeshess (11 mo ago)

Hmmmm. I'll be modeling HO.....hmmmmm


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Too soft. If you nail the roadbed and track it will not be smooth. Glue may or may not stick to it. 

There will be other opinions along as the day progresses.

There's not a lot that is wrong in this hobby, but for HO scale and smaller, that has to be one that is.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I think it'll be too bumpy under the train track path... but I suppose you could cut the path through it first. Although static grass is easy enough to apply, it's taken some practice on my end to get results I like -- and then you need the filament bags, the applicator and the glue... anyway if you do it, I'd try a smaller piece just to see if it works out like you want.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I used the 1/4" paper covered foam sheets from
the crafts section of Walmart, Michaels or Hobby Lobby.
It's inexpensive, and makes an ideal surface for grass,
roads or whatever. Use very light dabs of glue. The
sheets come in a variety of colors but the most
useful are white and black.

Don


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

The worst thing about our hobby is trains running poorly, unreliably, stalling, derailing, balking....it simply takes all the wind and joy out of the hobby.

Trains running poorly are almost certain to be due to the conditions of the tracks. They're poorly laid, poorly aligned, poorly considered as far as geometry and a useful plan, they're dirty, improperly powered, or they're just plain boring after a whole week.

Just as in the case of painting, you MUST prepare for the paint...er, the tracks. In our hobby, preparation means planning a decent track plan, and then devising a surface area, a suitable one, on which to plunk all them rails. You know....so they work? Rails that are wobbly, poorly connected to each other, have curves too tight, curves not even across rail heights, they'll be no end of trouble and frustration. You will toss your engines before you figure out that you should also toss your tracks. First.

Never place tracks on soft surfaces. It gets rapidly worse the smaller in scale you go, except it's more a geometric or even an exponential progression, not a linear one. Your tracks must be on something clean, planar, or as close to planar as you can possibly make it, and on something firm that won't buckle or shift when you grab it for support or fall against it.....which you will eventually.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I agree with Mesenteria's assessment.

Track laying is the number one absolute that you must make as close to perfect as possible in this hobby. Everything else is secondary. Ask anyone who has built more than two or three layouts and they will agree.

If trains won't run reliably, 100% of the time, it's not much of a hobby. That is the ultimate object of this hobby; to run trains. Not to figure out at every session you start why they won't run.

No one I know in the hobby starts a session with a derailment at the first turnout or curve a locomotive encounters on the very first pass, and then spends the next hour or two trying to figure out why it's happening.

That's what you will be doing every session if you lay roadbed and track on this material.

When I'm running trains as I am at this moment, I can take Lisl out to do her business, answer the phone, fill my pipe, or go for another Hofbrau and I know for a fact my trains will still be running as I left them when I return to the train room.

That is the kind of track work you want to be laying.


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## yeshess (11 mo ago)

So I guess everyone is in agreement that this is a bad idea huh?? Dammit and I was all set. Oh well, back to my original plan. Cork on my plywood base. Thanks everyone


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That has been the accepted method for decades. Why change the formula? Glue and caulk has become all the rage lately for those working with foam (another newer idea) but I don't use, or agree with either idea.

I want a rock-solid, immoveable substrate for my track work and I don't want to spend half of my hobby time cleaning up foam bits with a shop vac and putting canned goods away.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

MichaelE said:


> When I'm running trains as I am at this moment, I can take Lisl out to do her business, answer the phone, fill my pipe, or go for another Hofbrau and I know for a fact my trains will still be running as I left them when I return to the train room.


That is what you need to strive for first (unless you're just building a diorama). You want the confidence to leave the room and leave trains running w/o worry.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

MichaelE said:


> I don't want to spend half of my hobby time cleaning up foam bits with a shop vac and putting canned goods away.


I did find foam useful... along with plaster cloth. And it's ammo boxes.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

yeshess said:


> So I guess everyone is in agreement that this is a bad idea huh?? Dammit and I was all set. Oh well, back to my original plan. Cork on my plywood base. Thanks everyone


I don't think you would have been happy with the look after a while. The blades are way too large and long for HO.


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## yeshess (11 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> I don't think you would have been happy with the look after a while. The blades are way too large and long for HO.


Actually they are not long at all. I might just try a little section and see


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Besides being over sized and the concerns in being properly secured… I think it looks too uniform. Might work for a G scale lawn in the Hamptons.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I like the idea myself. The main concern being a lack of flatness under the cork. But if that doesn't pan out it might save time. And you can reserve the right to paint or even add other ground cover etc. 
You don't know till you try it after all.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> I want a rock-solid, immoveable substrate for my track work and I don't want to spend half of my hobby time cleaning up foam bits with a shop vac and putting canned goods away.


That's exactly what you get using foam: solid, immovable substrate with an impermiability to moisture that no plywood anywhere can equal. At half the price, too (more like 1/4 these days). And good luck carving that plywood into terrain forms. And I guess you're OK with spending half your hobby time cleaning up sawdust -- hey; it's not foam bits, though. And I can out away canned goods, or whatever else I'm using for weight, in about the time it takes you to drive two track nails, so there's that. No argument that the tried and true track nails in plywood DOES work, but it's not any better than foam, caulk and glue.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I didn't say it was. I just don't like building railroads that way.

Power saws now have vacuum attachments on them too. No sawdust to clean up.

Is your pantry in the train room?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> I didn't say it was. I just don't like building railroads that way.
> 
> Power saws now have vacuum attachments on them too. No sawdust to clean up.
> 
> Is your pantry in the train room?


Hold the nozzle of the shop vac next to the rasp as you cut. No foam dust to clean up. See, it works both ways... you just have to be willing to accept it.

Process for putting away canned goods: place cans in reusable shopping bag. Elapsed time, approx 1 minute. Lift bag, walk up stairs and 12 feet to the pantry. Elapsed time 30 seconds. Take canned goods out of bag and put them on shelves. Elapsed time, another minute. Again, the point is that you can make anything seem hard just by over exaggerating the difficulty of the things you don't want to do. Infomercials have perfected that art (have you ever seen those imbeciles try to chop vegetables with a chef's knife?).


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