# MTH Wireless Drawbar - New and Improved???



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I have complained many times about the MTH PS3 steamer wireless drawbar. It can come loose at both the tender and the cab. When it does, the loco stops dead in its tracks. Even worse, the solder connections on the drawbar are not insulated and although there is a plastic sheet at the cab end to keep it from shorting on a trailing truck, that can rotate out of position. When the uninsulated solder connections touch the trailing truck, it shorts and fries the PC board. There are a number of methods to insulate the solder joints and to keep the connections from coming loose, but it would be nice if the drawbar was a better design.

Whenever I see MTH reps at a meet, I ask about an improved drawbar. As recently as the October York, the reps have always acted like they didn’t know about any drawbar problem. Yesterday, I asked Andy about the drawbar and he said they have made improvements in the last few years. He said the connection at the tender is tighter, the connection at the cab now includes a screw to keep it from coming loose and the plastic insulator now has a better design to keep it in place. I have seen a few new locos with the screw connection at the cab end, but most seem to still have the old screwless connector. Andy seemed to indicate that the drawbar improvements have been made across the board to all new steamers. 

If you bought an MTH steamer produced in the last 2 years have you seen these improvements (especially the screw connection at the cab end)?


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

I need to look at some of my engines with wireless drawbars. Since I am collecting and not really running trains at the moment, I was never aware of the issue until you mentioned it in another post. 

I would love to see how you make improvements on the existing drawbar systems. I did check out one of my engines and saw the exposed solder spots on the engine side near the training truck. I figured on coating them with epoxy, liquid electrical tape or something similar...

Tom


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Krieglok said:


> I need to look at some of my engines with wireless drawbars. Since I am collecting and not really running trains at the moment, I was never aware of the issue until you mentioned it in another post.
> 
> I would love to see how you make improvements on the existing drawbar systems. I did check out one of my engines and saw the exposed solder spots on the engine side near the training truck. I figured on coating them with epoxy, liquid electrical tape or something similar...
> 
> Tom


I use liquid tape on the exposed solder joints. John uses epoxy (JB Weld) and in some cases heat shrink tape. A wire tie works to keep the tender connection from coming lose.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Lehigh74 said:


> I have complained many times about the MTH PS3 steamer wireless drawbar. It can come loose at both the tender and the cab. When it does, the loco stops dead in its tracks. Even worse, the solder connections on the drawbar are not insulated and although there is a plastic sheet at the cab end to keep it from shorting on a trailing truck, that can rotate out of position. When the uninsulated solder connections touch the trailing truck, it shorts and fries the PC board. There are a number of methods to insulate the solder joints and to keep the connections from coming loose, but it would be nice if the drawbar was a better design.
> 
> Whenever I see MTH reps at a meet, I ask about an improved drawbar. As recently as the October York, the reps have always acted like they didn’t know about any drawbar problem. Yesterday, I asked Andy about the drawbar and he said they have made improvements in the last few years. He said the connection at the tender is tighter, the connection at the cab now includes a screw to keep it from coming loose and the plastic insulator now has a better design to keep it in place. I have seen a few new locos with the screw connection at the cab end, but most seem to still have the old screwless connector. Andy seemed to indicate that the drawbar improvements have been made across the board to all new steamers.
> 
> If you bought an MTH steamer produced in the last 2 years have you seen these improvements (especially the screw connection at the cab end)?


I didn't note the changes but I have noticed they seemed tighter and better.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

I only have two MTH steamers with drawbars and luckily have never experienced the problems others have had. I like the ability to change out the drawbar for shorter lengths to tighten up that gag between engine and tender. Something I wish I could do with Lionel engines


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Gary, I've swapped drawbars on Lionel, I just make my own with sheet metal and lash the IR sender to them. I'll take the Lionel method everyday, it's actually a wireless drawbar.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Gary, I've swapped drawbars on Lionel, I just make my own with sheet metal and lash the IR sender to them. I'll take the Lionel method everyday, it's actually a wireless drawbar.


I was thinking of using the fiber glass sheets I purchased to make different drawbar lengths for my 3rdrail engines and doing the same for Lionel. Yours could be a good solution also, I just haven't gotten around to experimenting.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For 3rd Rail, I have used my fiberglass sheet (1/16"), works great and is easy to fabricate. If there's bends and the like, then I tend to look at metal solutions.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> For 3rd Rail, I have used my fiberglass sheet (1/16"), works great and is easy to fabricate. If there's bends and the like, then I tend to look at metal solutions.


You shorten both the engine side and the tender side? Or do you pick one side?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I typically try to pick one side, usually one makes more sense. Obviously, it's more work if you pick two. For 3rd Rail, the post is about as short as it gets, so one side fits all.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2019)

I just checked my Railking PS3 Dreyfuss Hudson's drawbar and it's screwed into the locomotive. The plug fits tightly into the tender but even if it was looser it couldn't droop low enough to short out. I bought this locomotive in 2015 so I would say MTH fixed the problem.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Joe - When you say the drawbar is screwed into the loco, is the screw the pivot point for the drawbar? Is the drawbar connection just plugged into the loco socket with no screw to hold the drawbar directly to the cab connection? If so, I think that's not an improved drawbar.

I probably should have posted a picture of what I meant by an improved drawbar, but I didn't have one yesterday. Tonight, I looked at a bunch of operating manuals for recent MTH steamers. I only found a few that had photos of the better drawbar.

These photos aren’t the greatest. They are from a Railking Big Boy manual. The first shows the screw for an improved cab side drawbar connection. It holds the drawbar plug and the socket on the cab together. The second shows a drawbar holder that holds the tender end of the drawbar onto the tender. The third shows a 4-4-0 loco with the tender drawbar holder in place and also shows the screw that holds the cab end drawbar connection together.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2019)

Bob, I just took a couple pictures of the drawbar. It is screwed into the frame of the loco and can't drop. I tried to get in close so you could see it so one of the pictures is slightly fuzzy but you can see that it's screwed into the frame. This is the only MTH steam engine I have so I don't know if it's typical. I would hope they are all made this way. I bought this loco in 2015.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

So this part slides onto the post after the drawbar is connected to the tender to help hold it in place?










That tip was posted on OGR a few years ago except the poster was using faucet washers which are thicker and have better grip than O rings. This is what I use.
MTH must be reading the forums.

Pete


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Joe – That is the *unimproved* drawbar design. And the plastic insulator has rotated out of position. It should cover the solder joints. I would reposition it 180 degrees. You should also use liquid tape or epoxy to cover the solder joints. The screw that holds the drawbar to the loco shouldn’t come loose, but the trailing truck can move and if it’s close to the drawbar, contact can occur. The drawbar screw won’t come loose, but the electrical connection might come loose. I have one PS3 loco where it comes loose often and one that never comes loose. I have a few others with wireless drawbars but have not run them enough to see if they will be a problem.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Pete – I have seen that tip with the faucet washers. I have been using wire ties on the tender end, but I think I will try to find the MTH part number for the drawbar holder and see if I can get my LHS to order some in.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What I do with the drawbar is first trim the pins on the bottom, then cover them with Liquid Tape.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2019)

Lehigh74 said:


> Joe – That is the *unimproved* drawbar design. And the plastic insulator has rotated out of position. It should cover the solder joints. I would reposition it 180 degrees. You should also use liquid tape or epoxy to cover the solder joints. The screw that holds the drawbar to the loco shouldn’t come loose, but the trailing truck can move and if it’s close to the drawbar, contact can occur. The drawbar screw won’t come loose, but the electrical connection might come loose. I have one PS3 loco where it comes loose often and one that never comes loose. I have a few others with wireless drawbars but have not run them enough to see if they will be a problem.


Thanks Bob. I see what you are saying. I'll rotate it and get some liquid tape. I haven't had any problems with it but it's better to be safe than sorry. Thanks.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I apply the liquid tape to both ends. On the cab end, I put the plastic insulator on while the liquid tape is still wet so it stays in place.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Some posters have mentioned sealing those exposed solder points with liquid tape to prevent shorting. Is there a particular brand of liquid tape you posters prefer and use which you consider better than the rest or are all manufacturers brands equal? Is one brand easier to apply or works better than the others? Is one brand or type longer lasting standing up better to those solder contacts being rubbed without the liquid tape wearing away? Whose brand do you use and why?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I’m not sure if one brand is better than another. I picked up a bottle of Gardner Bender at Home Depot and it works fine. It has a brush built in to the cap.

GRJ used to use JB weld to insulate the drawbars. He said the liquid tape can rub off. But since he is now using the liquid tape, he may have found a better brand than what he was using before.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Liquid tape can still brush off, but it's so darned convenient.  I typically use a couple of coats. Also, I trim the pins so they're flat, that really helps with insulating them. The last couple of bottles I've used have also been Gardner Bender from Home Depot.

I still prefer JB-Weld for a permanent fix.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Liquid tape can still brush off, but it's so darned convenient.  I typically use a couple of coats. Also, I trim the pins so they're flat, that really helps with insulating them. The last couple of bottles I've used have also been Gardner Bender from Home Depot.
> 
> I still prefer JB-Weld for a permanent fix.


John, please excuse this question if it seems unintelligent to you, but if a drawbar's solder points are a hazard that could lead to an engine board being fried if that drawbar should short, then when and why wouldn't you want that drawbar to have a "permanent" fix by using JB-Weld? Under what circumstances would a "nonpermanent "fix using liquid tape be preferable to a "permanent" fix using JB-Weld?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The Liquid Tape is fine/permanent in my book. I just tried to rub it off of a drawbar with my thumb and nothing came off. I also put it on trailing trucks. I tried to remove that and it stayed put. Even tried with my thumbnail and it didn’t come off. I think it would come off, but you would need to use an Exacto knife.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you're comparing the durability of the JB-Weld with Liquid Tape, there's no contest. However, for many MTH locomotives, there's no real way the bottom of the drawbar rubs on anything. In that case, for the random time it might come in contact with something, I usually deem the Liquid Tape to be sufficient. However, for certain designs, the Railking Big Boy comes to mine, there is a REAL danger that the drawbar shorts to the trailing truck axle. In those, I don't mess around, it's JB-Weld to the rescue.

In all cases, I trim the ends of the connector pins to have a bit more clearance and also to eliminate any sharp points that would be more likely to rub off the protection.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I stopped at Bussinger’s Trains today to see if they can order in some drawbar holders. I also looked at locos that were on the shelves, but that didn’t get me any closer to the answer I’m looking for. There were some locos with the better drawbar cab connection. They were Railking 2-8-8-2s from the 2014 V2 catalog. None of the other steamers had the better drawbar, but I don’t think any of them were from recent (2017, 2018) catalogs.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't think Bussinger's is all that active nowadays with new product, that's just my impression.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

FYI - Garner Bender Liquid Tape is no longer available at Home Depot Stores. It is now being sold at Lowe's Stores.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's OK, I get a 10% discount at Lowe's for being a veteran.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That's OK, I get a 10% discount at Lowe's for being a veteran.


Surely great news for you, John.
Btw, the only PS3 steam engine I have is MTH2035951, the STRASBURG 4-4-0 pictured below.
Do you know first hand, or can you tell from the photo if this engine has the problematic drawbar hat's prone to shorting out the engine's boards? Do I need to liquid tape its contact points as a precaution to minimize the possibility of it shorting or is it unnecessary for this particular locomotive??


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

With the drawbar installed and the locomotive and tender sitting on a level surface, see if there's any way either end of the drawbar contacts axles or trucks. If either end can possibly touch, then I'd make sure that can't do damage.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Can’t tell from that photo, but the photo on page three of the operator’s manual shows it to be the unimproved drawbar. Since there is no trailing truck, there isn’t much risk of a short at the cab end, but I would still dab some liquid tape on both ends. It just seems a bit crazy to have exposed solder joints that could short (however unlikely) and fry the PC board.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I can attest that they will MOST CERTAINLY fry the tender board if they get shorted to ground! I found that out on the RK Big Boy, had two boards croak before we figured out what was happening!


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> With the drawbar installed and the locomotive and tender sitting on a level surface, see if there's any way either end of the drawbar contacts axles or trucks. If either end can possibly touch, then I'd make sure that can't do damage.


*As always, John and Bob, thanks for your valuable feedback and assistance. You make MTF truly fabulous! :appl::appl::appl::appl: *


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Nobody has chimed in with a newer loco that has the improved drawbar and I can find nothing at the MTH site that would indicate they are widely used on new locos, so it looks like they are still only used on a few locos.

But every recent operators manual I saw has the drawbar holder (an easy fix for the tender side). Tim just called from Bussinger's Trains. The PN is FB-0000037. That came up empty on an MTH parts search, but Tim is going to order a bunch and I asked him to get me six.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have the 2017 Premier Big Boy with whistle steam, but I'll have to dig it out to see what kind of drawbar it has.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The drawbar holders came in a few days ago. I haven't had too many problems with the tender end of a drawbar coming lose, but I put one on a PS3 steamer anyway. Very tight fit. I tried briefly to get it off with my thumb nail but I couldn't. I'm sure it will come off with some trying, but I'm also sure it won't ever come lose in normal operation.


I have one PS2 steamer with a wireless drawbar, but the holder won't work on that. The square peg on the PS2 tender is a little bigger than the one on a PS3 tender.


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