# Help !!!!!! Lionchief Scout Expansion



## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

Hi all. Im a new member and very new to trains. My wife bought me the Lionel Lionchief Scout Set for my birthday. I would like to build a layout. Now my issue. I would like to use the Scout set for under my tree. However I would also like to use the engine and cars for part of my layout as well. Visting my LTS I have decided that the engine I want to buy for my layout is an MTH SD70ACE. I would like to use FastTrack for my layout. My issue is I need a transformer that would allow me to Run both engines. Plus activate all the sounds of both engines. I would like it to be powerful enough to run both trains plus a 4x8 layout. I dont want my layout to be crazy busy. Mostly just scenery and continuous loops for both trains. Not looking for operating scenery or operating cars. Now my questions.
1. Is it possible to run both of these trains on one layout???? Obviously I need to use the Lioncheif remote and have constant power to the track in order for it to work.
2. If it is possible what transformer and controller would I need???? The MTH has Protosound 3.
3. What wattage would be necessary to power the layout I described ??? 
Thank You in advance for any and all help. I look foward to being a participant in this forum and helping others when I can.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can run both of the locomotives on any common AC transformer, so that part is easy. You'll have to use the LionChief remote for that one and the DCS Remote for the PS/3 locomotive.

The simplest (and cheapest) entry is to use something like the Lionel 6-22983 PowerHouse 180 and the MTH DCS Remote Commander.

If you later want to expand, you can consider the MTH 50-1001 DCS Remote Control Set for controlling multiple MTH PS/2 or PS/3 locomotives.

Of course, there is also the Lionel side, the Lionel Legacy system if you prefer the Lionel product.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

As GRJ says the MTH system will allow you to control your MTH and the Lionel can be operated by the Lionchief remote.

Since you are new to the hobby I would like to recommend you start simple and build up. All these trains will run in conventional mode with an ordinary transformer. A nice shopped Lionel KW can be had for well under $100. This transformer will give you plenty of power for running two trains on two separate loops. Run the Lionchief on it's own loop at full power controlling it with the Lionchief remote. As for the MTH you can run it conventionally from the other side of the KW on another loop. You will not have full control of the sounds of the MTH without adding a MTH DCS system as GRJ says. However in conventional mode you will hear the engine sounds and be able to blow the horn.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The DCS Remote Commander, which comes with many MTH RTR sets, can be had for $30-35 and will run a single DCS locomotive and give you wireless remote operation and a lot more control of the features of the DCS engine.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can run both of the locomotives on any common AC transformer, so that part is easy. You'll have to use the LionChief remote for that one and the DCS Remote for the PS/3 locomotive.
> 
> The simplest (and cheapest) entry is to use something like the Lionel 6-22983 PowerHouse 180 and the MTH DCS Remote Commander.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply. With the transformer you mentioned Ill be able to power everything????


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

Which line for the MTH SD70ACE? I just got the Kansas City Souther Belle MTH SD70ACE.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

KarenORichmond said:


> Which line for the MTH SD70ACE? I just got the Kansas City Souther Belle MTH SD70ACE.


Haven't exactly decided that yet. Either the Green and Yellow ERIE or the Orange and Blue NJ CENTRAL.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Welcome to the site.

How big do eventually plan on building?
Do you have the room?

As with any layout the bigger the better, more so with O.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

big ed said:


> Welcome to the site.
> 
> How big do eventually plan on building?
> Do you have the room?
> ...


Going to put my layout in my finished attic. Nothing crazy big. Although I do have plenty of room. To start with just going to run 4x8 probably 2 continuous loops maybe an elevation change with a bridge. Nothing too crazy. Of course I ll leave a branch off the main line so if I ever decide to expand it I can. Couple of switches so I can move the two trains from the secondary to the main line. And then work on the scenery for a while until I get it to where Im happy. BTW the room I have for it is 25' x almost 100'


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well with a wife that buys trains and the size of the room I see a bigger layout already.

You do know that some of the larger trains will take a wider curve radius for negotiating curves?

With the 4 foot width you are limited on the size of the curve you can install.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

big ed said:


> Well with a wife that buys trains and the size of the room I see a bigger layout already.
> 
> You do know that some of the larger trains will take a wider curve radius for negotiating curves?
> 
> With the 4 foot width you are limited on the size of the curve you can install.


I was thinking Fasttrack 0-36 for the secondary and 0-48 for the mainline. Though I may have to go 5 or 6 wide in order to do that.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

O/48 will fit but will be close to the sides of the table.
If you can I would say go a little bit bigger from the start, a lot of trains can run on O/54's curves, some of the larger trains need an O/72 curve.

O/72 is a 6 foot minimum board that you will need, and even then it will be on the edge.

All the smaller trains will negotiate the O/72 curves and you will be set for some larger ones. 

A 4x8 is kind of small for O, for larger trains and scenery, etc. Even for the smaller trains you will see once you start adding things or seeing stuff you would like to add that the 4x8 won't fit much.
An 8x8 from the start might be better.

Heck you have the room, and the wife that buys you trains. :smilie_daumenpos:
Mine will get me the Hallmarks trains but that is about it.


But this is just a suggestion, it is your RR. :smokin:
25 x 100........:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You do know that O/48 is a 48" circle?

O/31 is a 31" circle, O/72 is a 72"circle O/54 is a 54" circle and so on.

And then for the size of the table with fast track, I guess you have to add the roadbed they have on it in the calculations.
I only have the tube track so that takes up a little less space.
I forgot the fast tracks attached roadbed on it.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

big ed said:


> You do know that O/48 is a 48" circle?
> 
> O/31 is a 31" circle, O/72 is a 72"circle O/54 is a 54" circle and so on.
> 
> ...


I don't know if you read Classic Toy Trains magazine but in their December issue they have a track layout that appeals to me (at least to start). Im not a big fan of the scenery that they used. But they used a 5'x8'the layout and tilted it a little and got it to fit. I understand where you're going with the larger curves but most of the trains that I seem to like only require O-31 corners. I also am going to build a mountain range around the outside of the layout in order to elevate the 0-48 mainline in sections. Maybe put a small river running alongside it. I don't really have a set Idea yet and I know that it is going to take a WHILE to transfer the picture in my head to reality. But isn't that part of the fun ????


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK, you can build a nice layout on a 5x8 to fool around with and add on in the future.
I don't think I saw that layout, I have not bought one of their magazines for a while now.

Just watch the specs on the size of the curve that some of the locomotives need, if you (or the better half) look to buy some more.

Start a build thread when you do.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You ever see this site?

They have a bunch of O layout plans.
Large and small.

http://www.thortrains.net/


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

big ed said:


> You ever see this site?
> 
> They have a bunch of O layout plans.
> Large and small.
> ...


Wow your really helpful.  Thank You. I have been to that site however all of the FastTrack layouts I found there don't have contious loops all are single runs to lumber or mine facility setups with small passenger train loops. Not what Im looking for. But there is a TON of good info on that site. BTW what part of Jersey are u from ???? Im from southern Betgen County.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Doublet74 said:


> Wow your really helpful.  Thank You. I have been to that site however all of the FastTrack layouts I found there don't have contious loops all are single runs to lumber or mine facility setups with small passenger train loops. Not what Im looking for. But there is a TON of good info on that site. BTW what part of Jersey are u from ???? Im from southern Betgen County.


Edison area.

Betgen county??? You mean Bergen?

I keep forgetting the fast track part.

I never used anything but tube track.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

big ed said:


> Edison area.
> 
> Betgen county??? You mean Bergen?
> 
> ...


I did mean Bergen. Sorry. At work right now and typing from my phone. Big Fingers+small keyboard = mistakes.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Your supposed to be working then! 

I thought maybe we had a county I never heard of.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

big ed said:


> Your supposed to be working then!
> 
> I thought maybe we had a county I never heard of.


Not really any work to do. Waiting on people who I know aren't going to show up. But here I sit in my heated office surfing the net from my phone. I have a computer here but if I use it "The Man" will know what I've been doing since 1:30pm. Been here too long to fall into that trap. ;-)


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

You may want to turn your 4'x8' inside out, take a look at

http://hogrr.blogspot.com/

for some ideas. This would give you larger turn radius and easier reaches.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

timlange3 said:


> You may want to turn your 4'x8' inside out, take a look at
> 
> http://hogrr.blogspot.com/
> 
> for some ideas. This would give you larger turn radius and easier reaches.


I model O scale. But thanks for the effort


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

He was talking about the "Concept" of turning your 4x8 inside out, works no matter what Scale/Gauge you play with.


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## Doublet74 (Dec 29, 2013)

Sorry didn't realize what he was speaking of. Not really my thing but I can understand his point. MY BADDD.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

My badd? Must be from jersey! Seriously though, try making the bench work first and then layout that track on it. Sometimes plans have flaws or unexpected things happen. Like the switches don't fit, no room for your aaccessories etc. It's a little more hands on but gives a good prospective on what your finished product will be! Good luck.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My advice is try to sneak in at least one loop with O72 curves. That's for the eventual Lionel Vision Line Big Boy that you'll be wanting when you see it.


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