# Shipping, wow what a joke



## Old3rail (Nov 28, 2019)

Hello everyone hope your Thanksgiving was a good one
Wow I was going to buy from modeltrainstuff, 2 little packs of arttista pond creatures, probably weigh 1/4 oz each they wanted $16.17 for shipping, only 450 miles, and we're supposed to support the train stores, outrageous!! I just don't have that kind of money laying around, so no more buying for me for awhile, sorry for the vent, but it's frustrating, John


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Some places have a flat rate for shipping. You need to buy more stuff to reduce your shipping to product cost ratio.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I agree. I pay flat rate €27,50 from Germany, so I order as much as I can afford at one time.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

If you wait and put together a larger order, the shipping would be less painful. The shipping rates with the USPS, recently went up…a lot.

Shipping can be a determining factor in purchases. But then again, if you really want/need something, shipping is a necessary evil. I run into that, especially with ordering parts for my models…

Tom


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## Streamliner (Feb 21, 2021)

For years, I used USPS Priority Mail almost exclusively, especially their flat rate boxes. However, over the last year or two, FedEx Ground & UPS have been reasonably less expensive.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Streamliner said:


> For years, I used USPS Priority Mail almost exclusively, especially their flat rate boxes. However, over the last year or two, FedEx Ground & UPS have been reasonably less expensive.


True. Depending on what you ship. Fedex and UPS do well with large parcels, but their minimum shipping cost can be expensive for small stuff. USPS can be cheap if the item is small and can be shipped first class instead of priority.

A couple places I dealt with in the past, had exclusive UPS shipping. On big stuff, it was fine. With small stuff (like a three ounce gasket) I get hammered with a $8 minimum shipping cost as the seller didn’t take the time to use the USPS and ship it for 75 cents…

Tom


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Lehigh74 said:


> You need to buy more stuff to reduce your shipping to product cost ratio.


LOL, the old "the more you buy, the more you save" ploy. But it is kinda true in this case.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Krieglok said:


> ... USPS can be cheap if the item is small and can be shipped first class instead of priority. ...
> Tom


Yes. First class package up to 16 oz can be less than $3.50 for a 1st class mail package. USPS does not offer this service on their website. You must go to the P.O. to get that service. But you can print they same label using PayPal's third party processor "*Shipstation*".


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

You are welcome to rant, brings new topics and comments into the forum. I think shipping goes up in the next 2 years due to inflation and energy costs. When OPEC and USA catch up in 2 years, shipping rates will NOT go down. Why? Because we are no longer a brick and mortar economy. It seems like everyone is ordering "on line". Amazon bounce there. 

I have virtually everything I need to build an awesome layout. Still some "gee whiz" stuff out there like the Woodland Scenics Power Station, but I will buy that from a local hobby store. 

It could mean we live with what we have, sprinkle more sawdust and paint it green, instead of dropping another $2,000 on stuff that costs $400 plus to get delivered. Just do a dollar cost average to include the shipping.

I have a few items I am watching on ebay - rolling stock - where the item is $50 but shipping - and state tax- adds $25. THAT is my total - $75 - NOT $50. So is the item worth $75 to me? No. I am just watching. If the seller adjusts the price down I MIGHT consider the purchase then. TRAINZ does, but very few other sellers - mostly dealers - NEVER lower pricing. So they go unsold.


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## Old3rail (Nov 28, 2019)

Thanks for all the options, I will be looking at all those, good thing we have smart phones and computers to look for those rare finds


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Millstonemike said:


> Yes. First class package up to 16 oz can be less than $3.50 for a 1st class mail package. USPS does not offer this service on their website. You must go to the P.O. to get that service. But you can print they same label using PayPal's third party processor "*Shipstation*".


True. You can weigh it and affix the postage yourself. I knew I shipped stuff first class and it was through PayPal as you mentioned…good catch.

Tom


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Yeah, you're not alone. I basically put together a list and only order two or three times a year. I shop online only since my LHS folded, and shipping is the deal-breaker if it's unreasonable. I think the old days of ordering detail parts and components from here and there are dying out . By the time a project is completed there's a ton of shipping money tied up in it......and that situation won't get better.

FW


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## Xrperry (Aug 10, 2021)

Watch out for eBay, you think your getting a good deal on something and the shipping is 3x the price of the item.if you use buy it now or win auction your stuck. Diamond rings is a biggie, sure certified, bla bla, but shipping…..1200.00! Yep, seen it myself and about laughed myself sick.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, we did it to ourselves…..buying on-line like crazy for a few years, put the LHS’s out of business just to save a couple of bucks, and now that we’re addicted, we’re stuck with whatever they want to charge us for shipping….

IMHO, as usual….


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## Xrperry (Aug 10, 2021)

I haven’t bought anything online for quite a while, it’s more fun to search for it here locally. If I absolutely have to order something I will ( need 4 window sets for f7 athearn locomotives) But last resort.


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## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

Just adding my 2 cents - when you do buy from your local hobby store (LHS) do NOT try and bargain them down. That's just my opinion. I know they had to have paid for shipping too just to get the items (if they are brand new item). I actually look at the experience of going to that shop as part of the price. I can spend an hour or more wandering around; the extra $2, $5, $10 I would pay is well worth it to have them stay in business.


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## Xrperry (Aug 10, 2021)

I don’t try to haggle with stores, their prices is what it is , the guy I usually buy from is a lot like me, like to haggle, cheap as dirt and somewhat stubborn. In fact the last half dozen purchases from him I paid what was on the tag, didn’t say squat. He even said you feeling ok? You didn’t try to beat me down, your getting pretty boring.. I told him he has given me a lot of good deals, time to even the score . He is a good guy and a small business owner And buys estates


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Xrperry said:


> I don’t try to haggle with stores, their prices is what it is , the guy I usually buy from is a lot like me, like to haggle, cheap as dirt and somewhat stubborn. In fact the last half dozen purchases from him I paid what was on the tag, didn’t say squat. He even said you feeling ok? You didn’t try to beat me down, your getting pretty boring.. I told him he has given me a lot of good deals, time to even the score . He is a good guy and a small business owner And buys estates


Yeah, my local place closed up and the owner passed on. I loved the joint - it was a railroadiana repository, an old school hobby shop - ships, planes, trains and a Lionel standard gauge State Set in a plexiglass case. I also paid the sticker price for what I bought - nothing overpriced and the experience was worth any price difference. It's a different world now, sadly.


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## Model Train Depo (Sep 4, 2021)

As a seller, I have found an outfit called Pirate Ship. They have awesome rates with a fast and simple website to ship items with all major carriers. Check them out....they were a game changer for me.👍


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Buy local for sure, I think these high shipping charges are going to help LHS, and train shows. Sadly like others have mention, my LHS closed down long ago. I have no choice but to order online.


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## Old3rail (Nov 28, 2019)

superwarp1 said:


> Buy local for sure, I think these high shipping charges are going to help LHS, and train shows. Sadly like others have mention, my LHS closed down long ago. I have no choice but to order online.


Yep I'm in the same boat, over an hour away


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## beepjuice (Sep 17, 2014)

Desperado said:


> Just adding my 2 cents - when you do buy from your local hobby store (LHS) do NOT try and bargain them down. That's just my opinion. I know they had to have paid for shipping too just to get the items (if they are brand new item). I actually look at the experience of going to that shop as part of the price. I can spend an hour or more wandering around; the extra $2, $5, $10 I would pay is well worth it to have them stay in business.


I agree 100%. We got to support them so they stay. They can just about order anything you need so you can avoid online. Just got to wait a little longer.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

I feel like a diseased man for being Canadian. I've been lucky to have a few extra bucks for a few years and got used to getting Lionel parts and occasional items thru the Bay or elsewhere online. Then Covid hit. The adage "the more people want/need the more they must pay", so we've had to find a lot of product (not just trains) online and get 'em shipped thru the big-boy shippers. They are out of control - there is no halfway anymore - you pay thru the nose and it's just understood you aren't going to get much of a deal. When I look at what I pay for a $25 item shipped from U.S. (if the seller even WILL ship to Canada), it's usually 25-40 or more to ship. Then I pay insurance. Then I pay customs & duty - another few bucks at least - THEN I pay for the "upgrade" of Canadian dollars to U.S. dollars - about a quarter of the overall cost on top of everything else - you still here? It makes us Canadians sick and pissed off and many American sellers are discriminating against us by refusing to even use a carrier that will ship to us. You bet I'm pissed...


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

As I understand it the USPS put forward a plan to raise rates to raise revenue to close fiscal holes and that's what they've done.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Meanwhile, the consumer’s “fiscal holes” just keep getting deeper and deeper….


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Lehigh74 said:


> Some places have a flat rate for shipping. You need to buy more stuff to reduce your shipping to product cost ratio.


But...but...honey...I know it's a $1200 locomotive...but I SAVED $8.55 on shipping....


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

Krieglok said:


> True. Depending on what you ship. Fedex and UPS do well with large parcels, but their minimum shipping cost can be expensive for small stuff. USPS can be cheap if the item is small and can be shipped first class instead of priority.
> 
> A couple places I dealt with in the past, had exclusive UPS shipping. On big stuff, it was fine. With small stuff (like a three ounce gasket) I get hammered with a $8 minimum shipping cost as the seller didn’t take the time to use the USPS and ship it for 75 cents…
> 
> Tom


I agree. UPS is good for large packages, but cannot compete with USPS for small boxes. I find that the USPS flat rate boxes are a good deal, most of the time. Especially if the parcel is going any distance.


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## JCIS4ME (Jan 4, 2016)

Lately on FB Market place there are alot of O scale items for cheap!


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

We want a bigger market to reduce the price, but it just doesn't seem to work that way anymore in my opinion. I had to go my local hobby store which I enjoy doing, but costs are still a debatable question for sure !


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

BigGRacing said:


> We want a bigger market to reduce the price, but it just doesn't seem to work that way anymore in my opinion. I had to go my local hobby store which I enjoy doing, but costs are still a debatable question for sure !


Gary, it seems both you and I (at opposite ends of the country) are lucky that there is a decent hobby shop within driving distance, but so many LHS' have had to close, leaving train lovers without much choice. That was more bearable before Covid, but now cheap shipping is past and when Canadians pay all the costs and then exchange rates to raise our dollar to U.S., it's really starting to hurt. Should we proud Canadians start our own shipping system and sell to one another at par with shipping costs nominal?


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## MPR (Jul 11, 2021)

I just started the hobby up (after 45 year absence) so I have been keeping real close track of my expenses. So far, shipping is accounting for 14% of my train budget. I cringe when I get to the shopping cart checkout - LOL. Maybe when I get further into the hobby and better organized I can order in bulk and experience a savings in shipping.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Severn said:


> As I understand it the USPS put forward a plan to raise rates to raise revenue to close fiscal holes and that's what they've done.


Half right. The Postmaster General appointed under the previous administration is a large stockholder in FedEx and UPS, and previously an outspoken critic of USPS. He represents a school of thought that most government related services should be privatized, not civil service. They've succeeded in privatizing USPS (sort of), but it still operates under government regulation and civil service rules and has provided low price competition undercutting the parcel companies. This has kept F & U profit margins lower than they'd like to see. Louis Dejoy's mission is to hamstring USPS under the guise of "closing loopholes" and raise prices and reduce services until it withers on the vine and can be clearly demonstrated as a failed system. The anti-big government crowd have not been shy over the years about advertising their playbook for bringing down USPS, AmTrak, public broadcasting, Medicare, Social Security, and numerous government agencies whose functions they feel can be more economically handled by the private sector. Don't expect to see cheap shipping any time soon. End of rant. Back to trains.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

_"The Postmaster General appointed under the previous administration" _

But he is still here during this administration so both sides in on this as far as the USPS is concerned.

Magic


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I am guessing the big 3 shippers are starting to feel the pain from Amazon shipping. My wife buys just about everything from Amazon, she is a Amazon Prime member so the $100 annual fee is a super bargain. Most deliveries are in the 2 to 3 day range and the Amazon delivery truck arrives a few times a week. I would speculate that Amazon has taken millions of packages out of the big 3 network.

Bill


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## BobT (Mar 27, 2021)

Magic said:


> _"The Postmaster General appointed under the previous administration" _
> 
> But he is still here during this administration so both sides in on this as far as the USPS is concerned.
> 
> Magic


President can't fire the postmaster general:


> In 1970, Congress overhauled the structure of the Postal Service to end this sordid tradition of patronage by giving the agency substantial independence. To oversee USPS’s activities, Congress established a nine-member board of governors who are nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate. No more than five members of the board may belong to the same political party. Once confirmed to the board, governors can only be removed by the president “for cause”; that means their jobs are safe unless the president can show that they engaged in malfeasance or extreme neglect of duty. The board of governors, in turn, selects the postmaster general, who is not subject to Senate approval. And once appointed, the postmaster general can only be removed by the board, though it need not justify its decision.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Let's keep the politics out of the thread or I'll have to close it. We're not going to change how the USPS is run here at MTF.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> We're not going to change how the USPS is run here at MTF.


Nope, just explaining the high prices. 'Nuff said.


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

Model Train Depo said:


> As a seller, I have found an outfit called Pirate Ship. They have awesome rates with a fast and simple website to ship items with all major carriers. Check them out....they were a game changer for me.👍


Game changer for me too.


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## Model Train Depo (Sep 4, 2021)

Tranz4mr said:


> Game changer for me too.


I have shipped over 90 items from Model Train Depo with zero issues and super good rates with the Pirates! Arrrrrr mateys!


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