# Modge Podge



## aquakiwi (Oct 2, 2019)

Can you thin this to enable it to flow for a glassier calmer looking finish?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I don't know the answer to your question but I used Mod Podge Gloss directly out of the bottle to model water and I am very happy with it.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

You do not need to dilute it. It acts like any fluid and will be flat on the surface. Shiny if gloss medium, flat look if matte medium. Note that, unless it's a hockey rink, natural water isn't planar on its surface outdoors. There is always some surface rippling due to air currents. You can achieve that more natural appearance by adding a second thin coat atop the first pour that has cured and is hard. You use the side of a disposable foam paint applicator to 'stipple' the added thin coat. Do this after the second coat has begun to set up, so keep an eye on it as it cures. Or, get some gel gloss medium from an arts and crafts store and paint it on the cured first pour, also thinly. Do the same thing with the foam applicator, except you can do it right away with the gel version. The gel will cure clear, so don't be alarmed at the facial cold cream whiteness of it.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

aquakiwi said:


> Can you thin this to enable it to flow for a glassier calmer looking finish?


You can thin it with plain water, as much as you want. It will dry clear. And it is virtually water-proof when dry.

For water effects, be sure and use the *gloss* stuff, and not the matte.
And it's "Mod", (not Modge). But don't feel bad, I pronounce it "Modge" Podge, too.


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## aquakiwi (Oct 2, 2019)

Thanks guys, it seems to be getting there.


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

I just started to use this after running out of Elmer's and I have to say, there is a huge problem with the 50/50 diluted mixture being used in spray pump bottles. 
I have had three sprayers completely clog up after using this mixture. When I used Elmers there was *no* issue.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

videobruce said:


> I just started to use this after running out of Elmer's and I have to say, there is a huge problem with the 50/50 diluted mixture being used in spray pump bottles.
> I have had three sprayers completely clog up after using this mixture. When I used Elmers there was *no* issue.


If you ran a 50/50 mix of Elmer's and water through a spray pump, that would be rather surprising to me. I've never been able to do that. Generally that's way too stiff of a mixture to be able to run through a spray pump in my experience.

For best "spray-ability", I have found that one should use no more than about 10%~15% glue in the glue/water mixture. If you start getting up around 20% or more of glue, you will start experiencing spraying problems. You will need to start pouring, squirting, or brushing it on at this point.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I mix matte medium 1 to 4 with water, and decant the sludge. It works well through a spray bottle. BUT, you can't let it sit in the bottle or it can clog the siphon tube. You also need to clean the spray head after use. I do so by spraying warm soapy water through it about 20 times, followed by some clean water to rinse. A few minutes of cleanup time and I'm still using spray bottles I got 20 years ago (the triggers eventually break).


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

I gave the spray a double cleaning with room temp water until it was clear and then empty the sprayer before storing the bottle.
I may of had a 45 to 55 mix glue to water but not a whole lot less. To me, 10-15% glue hardly seems worth it to hold anything especially ballast.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

videobruce said:


> I may of had a 45 to 55 mix glue to water but not a whole lot less. To me, 10-15% glue hardly seems worth it to hold anything especially ballast.


You're right. 10-15% is not really good enough to hold ballast in place.

That's why nobody that I know of tries to *spray* a 50/50 glue & water mix on their ballast. Instead, they will lightly squirt/dribble the 50/50 mix on with eye droppers, squirt bottles, the adjustable screw-cap on Elmer's glue bottles, or other similar application tools. 50/50 mix is too darned thick to try and spray. The only thing you should spray on your ballast is "wet" water first, and then squirt/dribble the 50/50 glue mix on.

The 10-15% glue mix works great for virtually all other light weight scenery items, such as ground foams, lichens, weeds, dirt, dust, grime, sand, and other scenic materials. Generally, you *mist* (spray) these items first with some "wet" water, then spray some thin glue mix on them.


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

My original point was and is, the difference between Elmers PVA and Mod Podge PVA. Thou Mod Podge 'paints on' (brushes) better then Elmers.
BTW, I do know someone that does this which is why I did and he was somewhat successful more than once.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Mixed Freight said:


> You're right. 10-15% is not really good enough to hold ballast in place.
> 
> That's why nobody that I know of tries to *spray* a 50/50 glue & water mix on their ballast. Instead, they will lightly squirt/dribble the 50/50 mix on with eye droppers, squirt bottles, the adjustable screw-cap on Elmer's glue bottles, or other similar application tools. 50/50 mix is too darned thick to try and spray. The only thing you should spray on your ballast is "wet" water first, and then squirt/dribble the 50/50 glue mix on.
> 
> The 10-15% glue mix works great for virtually all other light weight scenery items, such as ground foams, lichens, weeds, dirt, dust, grime, sand, and other scenic materials. Generally, you *mist* (spray) these items first with some "wet" water, then spray some thin glue mix on them.


An excellent point here: a sprayer is the wrong applicator for a localized area like ballast. Dribble it on with a pipette. And that's AFTER wetting it thoroughly with diluted isopropyl alcohol (about 35% concentration), also applied with a pipette.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

videobruce said:


> My original point was and is, the difference between Elmers PVA and Mod Podge PVA. Thou Mod Podge 'paints on' (brushes) better then Elmers.
> BTW, I do know someone that does this which is why I did and he was somewhat successful more than once.


Perhaps that's just one more reason to use acrylic matte medium, despite the cost difference. That's all I use.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

The big difference between Elmer's and Mod Podge is, that Mod Podge is FAR MORE water & moisture resistant after it dries, whereas Elmer's is not. Elmer's can easily be re-softened and re-liquefied even after it's dry, by simply spraying water on it.

Using Elmer's as a ballast glue can be a big advantage down the road, should one ever want to pull up their track and re-use it. It's a lot easier to loosen the track and clean the ballast off that way, as opposed to using a hammer & chisel (so to speak ) like you would with Mod Podge ballast glue.

That being said, I prefer to use Mod Podge when building trees with flock and ground foam. Since it is more water-proof when dry, I don't have to worry later on about the errant misting of wet water in the vicinity of trees when doing further scenery work in their areas on the layout. And of course, any other areas of scenery (including ballast) where permanence is of importance.

Those two ideas have served me quite well in the past.


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## videobruce (Jun 15, 2011)

Most of my track is *not* ballasted (by design), I only had to do it in one spot due to not painting the rigid foamboard *before* I laid the track.

Yes, Mod Podge is around 3x more expensive than Elmer's white glue in gallon sizes.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

All I have ever used for ballast adhesive is plain old wood glue (aliphatic resin). Works well, doesn't look evident when the ballast is dried:


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