# N-gauge too small for my eyes, HO too big for the space - getting older sucks



## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

Since I was a kid, I always wanted to build a train layout. In the past, I had a small N-gauge oval track, then built inglenook switching layout (also in N-gauge). Then years passed and now I have time and resources (read: some disposable income) to build another small layout. Problem is that I lack space so coffee table layout is pretty much what I can build. Can't go with point to point shelf layout along a wall or bigger (i.e. 4x8) layout. Now, the problem is that I got older, my eyesight is not what it used to be so N-gauge, which is pretty much the biggest suitable scale to run on a coffee layout, is too small for me. Can't see myself building such a small layout details. On the other hand, HO is too big unless I want just a smallest circle track which will get boring pretty quick. Getting old really sucks.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

HOn30?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

"Getting old really sucks"
It's better than the alternative.


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## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

Murv2 said:


> HOn30?


I am not familiar with HOn30. I did some reading and if I understand, the track is N-gauge so I could use Kato Unitrack, correct? Everything else is still 1:87 so buildings, locos and rolling stock are HO scale, right?


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Join a club?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

drabina said:


> I am not familiar with HOn30. I did some reading and if I understand, the track is N-gauge so I could use Kato Unitrack, correct? Everything else is still 1:87 so buildings, locos and rolling stock are HO scale, right?


Yes, HO scale trains on N scale track, it's narrow gauge HO models but I think it's called HOn3


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## DanRaitz (Jun 24, 2021)

Gramps said:


> Yes, HO scale trains on N scale track, it's narrow gauge HO models but I think it's called HOn3


HOn3 and HOn30 are different gauges. HOn3 = HO scale 3' gauge whereas HOn30 = HO scale 30" gauge. HOn30 runs on "N" scale track and HOn3 runs on specifically built track.

p.s. HOn30 is also called HOn2-1/2

Micro Eng - Code 70 Narrow Gauge HOn3 Nonweathered Flex-Track(TM) - 3' Sections pkg(6) - Nonweathered 3' Sections pkg(6) - 255-10114 (walthers.com)

Dan


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

"Getting old really sucks." gotta agree, dr, but it kinda struck me that, if not being able to see N-Scale is the worst of your prollems, yer in a good place...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm only 93...looking forward to getting old.

Don


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## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

I did more research on the HOn30. There is not a lot of locomotives or rolling stock and whatever is available, it is priced pretty high. There are some conversions from N-gauge locos but they involve mostly 3D printed shells that require painting. Not sure that with my limited experience, I would be able to pull a fully functional layout off. Unless, I am missing something.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

drabina said:


> I did more research on the HOn30. There is not a lot of locomotives or rolling stock and whatever is available, it is priced pretty high. There are some conversions from N-gauge locos but they involve mostly 3D printed shells that require painting. Not sure that with my limited experience, I would be able to pull a fully functional layout off. Unless, I am missing something.


drabrina;

How about a layout that slides under a bed, or gets stored in a closet, when not in use? A hollow-core door makes a good layout base. We "elder statesmen" don't kneel or crawl very well, so an under the bed layout should have folding legs to raise it up where we can sit in a chair & run it. Home Depot sells the doors, and also folding metal legs. I glued a 1x4 across the hollow-core door at each leg attachment point. The little layout shown below is one I made for my seven-year-old grandson Hudson. 
Another possibility is to use hard extruded insulation foam board for a layout base. The advantage is that though rigid, it weighs almost nothing, and is very easy to handle. Maybe it could sit on a dining room table when you want to run trains?

As for the eyesight, this 74 year old N-scaler finds an optivisor is a great help.

Traction Fan


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

First, if you can lay claim to getting old, you're doing pretty darned well. If you have few limitations, no co-morbidities, and can get some good light overhead (or from the side using construction lights on stands), you can have a good time. If your dexterity is what limits you, run an S or O scale locomotive on a switching puzzle.

I just turned 70, and I have one serious issue (paroxysmal and persistent atrial fibrillation), but I can still enjoy my trains, still build a layout if I must (I have a good one now), and I couldn't see myself without the trains to run over to the garage and to have some fun.

Perhaps you could adjust your expectations. If you started on a simple layout, even a plain oval on a table, you could be up and running a larger scale locomotive inside of ten days. It would be better than nothing, and wishing it were not so.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

What about a small switching layout. Perhaps one depicting a wharf scene. Maybe a factory feeding loaded cars to an imaginary main. Streetcar layouts can be fun and can be made rather small.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

drabina said:


> I am not familiar with HOn30. I did some reading and if I understand, the track is N-gauge so I could use Kato Unitrack, correct? Everything else is still 1:87 so buildings, locos and rolling stock are HO scale, right?


You could use N Unitrack but the tie size and spacing won’t be right. HOn30 track is available and is correctly sized. Peco makes a starter set. Yes, everything is HO scale.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I have the exact same problem as the OP. That's why we're building an HO layout in sections. We can take up just a little space to work on it but on a good day we can connect them together outside and run trains.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

traction fan said:


> drabrina;
> 
> How about a layout that slides under a bed, or gets stored in a closet, when not in use? A hollow-core door makes a good layout base. We "elder statesmen" don't kneel or crawl very well, so an under the bed layout should have folding legs to raise it up where we can sit in a chair & run it. Home Depot sells the doors, and also folding metal legs. I glued a 1x4 across the hollow-core door at each leg attachment point. The little layout shown below is one I made for my seven-year-old grandson Hudson.
> Another possibility is to use hard extruded insulation foam board for a layout base. The advantage is that though rigid, it weighs almost nothing, and is very easy to handle. Maybe it could sit on a dining room table when you want to run trains?
> ...


You could also use a folding metal table under the bed but you would need something to make it slide easier, maybe some of those discs for moving furniture. I have one that is 30"x72" and the legs fold under it. It also folds in half but that's not really helpful for a permanent layout. You can probably get it at Walmart


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Don't let em see you sweat, go down to Z scale....


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## drabina (Mar 19, 2013)

Unfortunately, not much space to hide layout under a bed.

I am still intrigued by the HOn30 gauge. I did check out the Peco's starter kit in HOe which I assume is the European equivalent to HOn30, correct? The basic layout would fit a coffee table and should work for me when expanded a bit. The availability of engines and rolling stock is scarce here in US but I should be able to import something from Europe as I have family members there. I do not need much as the layout will be enclosed behind the glass so I don't see myself changing rolling stock or motive power frequently. All other items like buildings, trees, etc should be no problem as they are in HO scale.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

I agree about N scale being simply too small to see well (for someone whose vision is in decline).

Even HO can be hard for me to discern smaller details unless the lighting is bright and I have my "close up" glasses on.

If N scale is "too small" to be practical for you, then it's time to "move up" (literally) to HO, and find something that can work for you.


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## Browneye (4 mo ago)

Agreed - N is too small, HO takes too much space. I'm doing HO anyway, sold off the gym equipment in the fourth bedroom home-gym, so I have room to build a 4x8+. 

When I was in my late twenties I built a rather large N-scale, back when there wasn't much selection. You can cram a lot of layout in a reasonable space, easy to fit curves, etc. But I decided way back then that I would move to HO as it was just so much easier to do and see detailing. We moved a couple of years later so the layout got torn down and stuff sold off. 

Now thirty years later, I'm finally ready to jump in again. Space is still an issue, and we may be up for a move in a year or so. I'm doing a 'small' HO layout with the thought of either taking it with me to be part of a larger round-the-room layout, or scrap it and start over after moving across the country. I always said when I got too old to ride motorcycles then I would build another model railroad. 

I would do a shelf or diorama in HO before I went back to N. But that's just me, and now I need readers to see really small detail. Getting old is no picnic. LOL


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## Mick Hinkle (10 mo ago)

An older HO Penn Line/Bowser 2-8-0 PRR H-9 runs easily on Atlas 15” radius sectional track. Even a circle or small oval of track gives a chance to watch trains run and run and run… the “aquarium” effect. Plus provides an opportunity to hone kit building skills before “graduating” to scratch building. Glad you have chosen this hobby with so many facets !


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

I model in TT scale which is 1:120 scale (1 inch = 10 feet) between HO and N scales. There are two narrow gages, many European manufacturers,Tillig is the largest.q
HOe (HO scale bodies on N gauge tracks).
HOm (HO scale bodies on 12mm (0.472) TT scale tracks).

Here's a couple of US importer, I get items faster ordering from a German hobby store, MSL is my favorite. Some shipments about 5 days from Germany to Florida.





HOe Gauge Model Railroading


HOe gauge model railroading from Marklin, Preiser, Faller and more



www.reynaulds.com










Roco, HOe Scale Straight and Curved Track







www.eurorailhobbies.com


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I missed the Golden Years and went right into retirement... 🤔


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## Bigfoot21075 (Aug 7, 2021)

I was in the same mind set, I even tried to squeeze an HO layout into my space but I simply could not get my must haves in that layout. I bought a Bachman starter set and liked the size, but the scale just too big to fit my space. So I went N scale, what I have discovered was that after working with it, it is fine. Now when I see the HO stuff, it just looks too big to me. Yes, I have to wear reading glasses to read, I use magnifiers to build stuff but it is all worth it. I picked up a KATO Silver Streak train set and that was the clincher. It is an amazing precision machine,


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

If you have that coffee table you could build a foldout top that doubles its space.When my middle son was eight he had little space in his room but wanted a train layout of his own. I built a desktop that doubled its size by folding out, for N gauge, but the idea would work just as well with HO. It takes some woodworking effort and careful planning along with precise work on the hinges and laying out the track, but it worked well enough that an eight year old could unfold and set it up, or fold it up, by himself, and he used it for years. The picture shows the idea. Section A - a thin side slat, is not attached. When folded up it slides into the end as shown in the upper left. To open the layout he removed section At, folded the (precisely hinged) upper section down onto some support arms that kept it flat, then inserted the thin slat (A) in between the two broader layout section. Tabes kept in precisely in place so the tracks aligned, and a wire with a clip ran power to its two short sections of track. Folded up, it was his desktop.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Or…if you have a yard you can do this:


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## Monon (Feb 8, 2013)

If you've been in n-scale for any length of time you probably have an extensive collection of trains and scenery, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I found that scale doesn't really matter, you're gong to have small, detail parts no matter which you use. For N-scale if it looks good from 3 feet away that's good enough. With HO those separately applied grab irons and firecracker antennas break off all the time and the equipment ends up looking like n-scale anyway.

I belong to an n-scale club that uses both n-rail and t-trak modular systems that we house in a 40X80 barn and take to train shows and local events. However, most of the modules can be operated as single units. My preference is t-trak which I use at home (t-trak modules breed like rabbits) where I can set-up my four corner units on a standard card table and run trains in a continuous loop, for breaking in new locos for example. I have a couple of folding banquet tables for running longer trains. A module can be any length, especially if you don't intend to take them to club settings and you want to disregard the t-trak standards. I can work on a module while sitting in my easy chair to do scenery, clean track, or add under module wiring or switch machines.

The t-trak modules are highly adaptable and can be used with any scale. I have built them in HO and Lionel for friends and relatives. I was most impressed with the Lionel modules, they used 027 curves at the corners and the straight modules could accommodate switches or the operating accessories like the log loader. Best of all they could be set-up on card tables, the more the merrier, or could just be used on the floor. That's my free food for thought.


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## daveo228i (10 mo ago)

At 79 I completely enjoy the joys of Z scale. I tried to get ”in”to N scale, but I simply could not. As a youngster I had Lionel O gauge. But that was then. Why Z. Perhaps its the challenge to not so quite steady hands. Whatever gauge you settle on, enjoy, and also enjoy getting older, remember the other alternative.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Browneye said:


> Agreed - N is too small, HO takes too much space. I'm doing HO anyway, sold off the gym equipment in the fourth bedroom home-gym, so I have room to build a 4x8+.
> 
> When I was in my late twenties I built a rather large N-scale, back when there wasn't much selection. You can cram a lot of layout in a reasonable space, easy to fit curves, etc. But I decided way back then that I would move to HO as it was just so much easier to do and see detailing. We moved a couple of years later so the layout got torn down and stuff sold off.
> 
> ...


Browneye;

I suggest building your 4 x 8 in four, 2 x 4 sections bolted together into the 4 x 8. That way it will be easier to move, if you do that, but also easier to work on one section at a time, sitting at a table. We old guys like our creature comforts. 😄 

Traction Fan


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## Browneye (4 mo ago)

traction fan said:


> Browneye;
> 
> I suggest building your 4 x 8 in four, 2 x 4 sections bolted together into the 4 x 8. That way it will be easier to move, if you do that, but also easier to work on one section at a time, sitting at a table. We old guys like our creature comforts. 😄
> 
> Traction Fan


This was good advice - about the best I've gotten on the forum, among other specific gems.

We are empty nesters in a four-bedroom house, all the kids grew up and are gone now. I have designed and built a 6x7-1/2 in two halves, separate L-girder base/stand, and removable center backdrop. It's nice and light, and it's on casters so it can be moved around for access all around, and so wifey can move it over and run on her elliptical. Win-win all around.

It sits right about 43" in height, and with the corners cut pretty much everything is within arms-length reach, a step-stool for the furthest away. I have a bar-stool type chair that's perfect for sitting there and looking at it. LOL It's coming together and I'm having a ball!

Here's where I'm at so far...



Early on...


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)




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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Wups, forgot to write something....I'm there with you on N being to persnicky for the old timers but staying with it.
Finally moved my door layout from the basement to an un-occupied bedroom upstairs, added a second inner loop today and started working on building placement so I can get scenery started after some 10-15-12 or so odd years.


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## Browneye (4 mo ago)

A real door!


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I am 74 and have macular degeneration, which is a challenge for close up vision and reading. I enjoy N scale though, particularly LED-lit passenger cars.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I gave up N gauge 20 years ago and went to O because I could not repair them well - it was just too damn difficult to repair themk if they could be repaired, when they broke. But I also saw the handwriting on the wall- as I got older and my sight a bit less accurate, . . . but If I had little room I would have an N gauge rather than no model trains at all.

The fold-out coffee table layout I outlined above worked for an N-guage layout I made for the middle body when he was 9, it was N gauge and folded and slid under his twin bed. It would work for N gauge or HO.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Rich1853 said:


> I model in TT scale which is 1:120 scale (1 inch = 10 feet) between HO and N scales. There are two narrow gages, many European manufacturers,Tillig is the largest.q
> HOe (HO scale bodies on N gauge tracks).
> HOm (HO scale bodies on 12mm (0.472) TT scale tracks).
> 
> ...


It's much faster to order from MSL or Modellbahn Union. Even with flat rate shipping of €30, you will nearly always come out ahead by ordering from Germany.

Raynaulds and ERH are both overpriced by at _least_ 30% and Reynaulds shows no in-stock items. They rarely get the latest releases and then there's the eon of time that passes before getting anything from ERH with the odd hours and days they decide they want to be open.


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