# Overwhelmed Getting Started!



## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

Hey all, recently decided to get involved in model railroading, after having loved the real things my whole life. I had several kits as a kid and never really got beyond settings them up on the floor and running them and putting them away. Now, I’m trying to learn everything I need to know to set up a small layout in my 1 bedroom apartment. I want to set up a layout that has a large rail yard area in the middle to display a few locomotives that I’m going to customize, as well as a continuous track on the outside. I have around a 3’x4’ area for my train table to go. Any advice or suggestions are welcome. I’m a true noob in every way possible as far as setting up layouts and whatnot, as I’ve focused primarily on the trains themselves till now. My lingo and jargon knowledge in the hobby are minimal! Thanks everyone!
Brandon


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

Welcome Brandon is all I can say, It sounds from the start like a module you want to me. I am not a great track planner for sure but others are, I am sure they will help. Take a look at Scarm, anyrail program for track plans and here in the layout section as well for ideas.

I encourage you to check this Blog out as well


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

From your description of what type of layout you want, with only a 3'x4' area you would be better off with N scale but I know from your other thread you already have two HO locos. Even with 18" radius you will be at the very edge of any loop you make so you are probably restricted to a switching layout. If you're going to stick with HO and you want continuous running you have to find someplace to get a larger layout. Have you thought about building a layout on a table that could roll out from under the bed?


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## Booly15 (Aug 16, 2017)

BrandonB said:


> Hey all, recently decided to get involved in model railroading, after having loved the real things my whole life. I had several kits as a kid and never really got beyond settings them up on the floor and running them and putting them away. Now, I’m trying to learn everything I need to know to set up a small layout in my 1 bedroom apartment. I want to set up a layout that has a large rail yard area in the middle to display a few locomotives that I’m going to customize, as well as a continuous track on the outside. I have around a 3’x4’ area for my train table to go. Any advice or suggestions are welcome. I’m a true noob in every way possible as far as setting up layouts and whatnot, as I’ve focused primarily on the trains themselves till now. My lingo and jargon knowledge in the hobby are minimal! Thanks everyone!
> Brandon


Welcome to a great hobby, it can be a lil overwhelming at times, but there is so much info on this and other sites, with that limited area my question would be would you consider N scale (how is your eyesight)? There are many books for layouts in N and HO as well as online, there are some layout design programs that will guide you as well.
Don't get to overwhelmed, every time you come across a stumbling block just consider it a challenge to be conquered and you will have even more satisfaction with every one you get through!


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

Gramps said:


> With only a 3'x4' area you would be better off with N scale but I know from your other thread you already have two HO locos. Even with 18" radius you will be at the very edge of any loop you make so you are probably restricted to a switching layout If you're going to stick with HO and you want continuous running you have to find someplace to get a larger layout. Have you thought about building a layout on a table that could roll out from under the bed?


I’ve been thinking about running an N scale layout instead, but as you said, I have the HO locos already. I guess I could just use them as shelf displays and have the N scale as my running setup. Can’t do under bed because since I’m disabled, my bed is lowered to make it easier to get into. Definitely might be looking into the N scale. In fact, I think I might still have an unopened n scale set my parents bought for me years ago that I never got to put up. Probably in storage lol


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

Booly15 said:


> Welcome to a great hobby, it can be a lil overwhelming at times, but there is so much info on this and other sites, with that limited area my question would be would you consider N scale (how is your eyesight)? There are many books for layouts in N and HO as well as online, there are some layout design programs that will guide you as well.
> Don't get to overwhelmed, every time you come across a stumbling block just consider it a challenge to be conquered and you will have even more satisfaction with every one you get through!


Hey! Thanks for the welcome. I definitely would consider N scale, I just like the HO because they’re seemingly easier to customize (like you said, you need good eyesight to work with them!) and detailing really seems to show more on the larger scale. I guess I’ll have to step back and reassess my plans before I get started. Unfortunately with the minimal space I have available it limits what I’m going to be able to do I think


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

BrandonB said:


> Hey all, recently decided to get involved in model railroading, after having loved the real things my whole life. I had several kits as a kid and never really got beyond settings them up on the floor and running them and putting them away. Now, I’m trying to learn everything I need to know to set up a small layout in my 1 bedroom apartment. I want to set up a layout that has a large rail yard area in the middle to display a few locomotives that I’m going to customize, as well as a continuous track on the outside. I have around a 3’x4’ area for my train table to go. Any advice or suggestions are welcome. I’m a true noob in every way possible as far as setting up layouts and whatnot, as I’ve focused primarily on the trains themselves till now. My lingo and jargon knowledge in the hobby are minimal! Thanks everyone!
> Brandon


Brandon;

Welcome to the forum, and to model railroading. With your small available space, I suggest you look seriously at N-scale, or Z-scale. The larger HO-scale, and even larger O-scale, will be difficult/impossible to fit in a 3' x 4' area. HO-scale needs a minimum of 4' of layout depth to make a 180 degree turn. So you couldn't fit your desired "continuous track on the outside." 
Your plan for a "large railyard" is also, shall we say, more than a bit ambitious for the small space you have, particularly if you want anything else. This is quite normal, and common. Practically all newbies grossly underestimate what will actually fit into their limited available spaces.

By using a smaller scale, you will be able to have a continuous loop of track around the outside. You will also be able to have a yard, but not a large one.

N-scale can make that 180 degree turn in 3' of layout depth with no problem. It is also one of the two most popular scales in the U.S. (second only to HO-scale) That means you will have a wide variety of products to choose from. It also makes N-scale about the same price as HO scale for the same item. Other scales generally tend to be more expensive, and have less selection.

Z-scale is 3/4 the size of N-scale and with it you might be able to fit a bit more into the same space. The downside is that Z-scale is not very popular, which means the selection of available products, especially of American type trains, is a lot less.
Z-scale is also quite expensive. Much more than either N, or HO-scales.

The files below are some I wrote for people in your situation, newbies planning their first layout. Read through them if you wish. I think they will help you decide how to go forward.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

traction fan said:


> Brandon;
> 
> Welcome to the forum, and to model railroading. With your small available space, I suggest you look seriously at N-scale, or Z-scale. The larger HO-scale, and even larger O-scale, will be difficult/impossible to fit in a 3' x 4' area. HO-scale needs a minimum of 4' of layout depth to make a 180 degree turn. So you couldn't fit your desired "continuous track on the outside."
> Your plan for a "large railyard" is also, shall we say, more than a bit ambitious for the small space you have, particularly if you want anything else. This is quite normal, and common. Practically all newbies grossly underestimate what will actually fit into their limited available spaces.
> ...


Hey! Thanks for the awesome info. I think I’m definitely swaying toward doing the N scale layout. I looked in my storage about an hour ago and found the set my parents had gotten me years ago that I’d never even gotten to open for multiple reasons. It’s a Bachman N scale steam locomotive and cars with the track. It’s at least a good place to start. I found another N scale steam engine I want but it’s $250 so I’ll be saving my pennies for that one lol. I’ll read through the files and hopefully come up with a plan! Thanks for your help


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

As others have made c,ear, concessions will have to be made.

But you pointed out you wish to detail HO equipment. I share the particular interest.
I also had space restrictions & switched to N in order to have continuous running, at the sacrifice of detail. Usually I’m pretty sharp so why I made such a profoundly stupid choice is beyond me.

Here is my suggestion: While we all understand the desire for running long trains for a good distance; join a local or semi-local model RR club for that, and for additional in person learning & friendships. You’ll also get to see how DCC works etc. At home in your available space, consider focusing more on switching operations.

You could do N as others suggested, but you have to decide what is an acceptable sacrifice. You sound a lot like myself when I was starting out at a young age. I learned the hard way N was in my case a terrible idea.


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

So, as I said, I dug out my unopened Bachman N scale Tyr set I’ve had since I was a teen. Not sure exactly when I got it but I’d say late 80’s early 90’s? It’s the Empire Builder set with the Northern 4-8-4 steam loco. Should I stick with the ez track or get the Kati track with the roadbed? Any other suggestions?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

It's good to have another new member.

You are fortunate to locate that never used
N scale train. You may find the loco runs
poorly out of the box. The lube in the
gearing gels after it sits for some years.
It would be a good idea to clean it out
and replace it with a plastic friendly
'grease' as offered by LaBelle's.
Also clean the track rails with alcohol before
running. That would improved the
electrical conductivity for the loco.

Don


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

DonR said:


> It's good to have another new member.
> 
> You are fortunate to locate that never used
> N scale train. You may find the loco runs
> ...


Thanks for the advice! I’ll definitely do that before I try to run it.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

If the set came with the black roadbed steel EZ track you should probably change. You might be OK with gray roadbed nickel-silver EZ track if you're not going to use turnouts but IMO you can't go wrong with Unitrack.


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

Gramps said:


> If the set came with the black roadbed steel EZ track you should probably change. You might be OK with gray roadbed nickel-silver EZ track if you're not going to use turnouts but IMO you can't go wrong with Unitrack.


Yep it’s the black roadbed track. I’ll probably get the kato track. Thanks!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

BrandonB said:


> Hey! Thanks for the awesome info. I think I’m definitely swaying toward doing the N scale layout. I looked in my storage about an hour ago and found the set my parents had gotten me years ago that I’d never even gotten to open for multiple reasons. It’s a Bachman N scale steam locomotive and cars with the track. It’s at least a good place to start. I found another N scale steam engine I want but it’s $250 so I’ll be saving my pennies for that one lol. I’ll read through the files and hopefully come up with a plan! Thanks for your help


 BrandonB;

Depending on the age of your Bachmann train set, the locomotive in that set may not be that good. Really old Bachmann was, frankly, junk, and the locomotives had no low speed performance to speak of. They had two speeds, way too fast, and stopped.  Don't let that discourage you though, if it happens. Current production N-scale is a whole different, & worlds better thing. Bachmann is far from my favorite brand, but even they have improved a lot on some of their locomotives. One problem is that the old designs also linger on, and are still sold today, beside the new improved ones.

Are you set on only steam? Generally speaking, good, smooth-running diesel locomotives are more common in N-scale than good, smooth running steam locos. Kato is the brand preferred by most N-scalers. They make lots of excellent diesels, but only a few steamers. Kato steam locomotives are also excellent quality, but hard to find, and expensive.
Most of the N-scale steam available is Bachmann, but hopefully you'll get a new design that runs a lot better than the old ones. Buy at a train store where you can test run it before paying for it, if you are lucky enough to have a good train store near you. If that's not practical, and you have to buy online, make sure you get a return privilege. Here are two decent, reputable, online dealers. www.modeltrainstuff.com & www.trainworld.com 

As you will probably learn from my files, sometimes you can fit a narrow , but longer, shelf type layout into an area where a conventional "rectangular slab" layout won't fit.
Look carefully to see if some less conventional space is available to you. I understand about you not being able to use the area under your bed. I'm 74 & partially disabled myself, and have gone to great lengths to avoid going under my layout.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

traction fan said:


> Depending on the age of your Bachmann train set, the locomotive in that set may not be that good. Really old Bachmann was, frankly, junk, and the locomotives had no low speed performance to speak of. They had two speeds, way too fast, and stopped.  Don't let that discourage you though, if it happens. Current production N-scale is a whole different, & worlds better thing. Bachmann is far from my favorite brand, but even they have improved a lot on some of their locomotives. One problem is that the old designs also linger on, and are still sold today, beside the new improved ones.
> Are you set on only steam? Generally speaking, good, smooth-running diesel locomotives are more common in N-scale than good, smooth running steam locos. Kato is the brand preferred by most N-scalers. They make lots of excellent diesels, but only a few steamers. Kato steam locomotives are also excellent quality, but hard to find, and expensive. Most of the N-scale steam available is Bachmann, but hopefully you'll get a new design that runs a lot better than the old ones. Buy at a train store where you can test run it before paying for it, if you are lucky enough to have a good train store near you. If that's not practical, and you have to buy online, make sure you get a return privilege. Here are two decent, reputable online dealers. www.modeltrainstuff.com & www.trainworld.com
> 
> As you will probably learn from my files, sometimes you can fit a narrow , but longer, shelf type layout into an area where a conventional "rectangular slab" layout won't fit. Look carefully to see if some less conventional space is available to you. I understand about you not being able to use the area under your bed. I'm 74 & partially disabled myself, and have gone to great lengths to avoid going under my layout.
> ...


Hey! Ya, this one is late 80’s or early 90’s. I am not necessarily only interested in steam, it’s what first caught my eye back as a kid though. There’s a transportation museum here in St. Louis where I used to live closer to and they had all kinds of steam engines there and I fell in love with them. I’ll look around and see if any of the N scale diesels catch my eye. My apartment complex is begin to rehab some of the empty units and I asked them to save me a closet door to use as the top of my train shelf. That’ll save some money


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

BrandonB said:


> Hey! Ya, this one is late 80’s or early 90’s. I am not necessarily only interested in steam, it’s what first caught my eye back as a kid though. There’s a transportation museum here in St. Louis where I used to live closer to and they had all kinds of steam engines there and I fell in love with them. I’ll look around and see if any of the N scale diesels catch my eye. My apartment complex is begin to rehab some of the empty units and I asked them to save me a closet door to use as the top of my train shelf. That’ll save some money


BrandonB;

Yes, many N-scale layouts have been built on hollow core doors. I've built two of those myself.
The St. Louis transport museum, that's where they have the last remaining Milwaukee Road "Bipolar" type electric locomotive. I'm a little jealous. 😕 I did get to see, and sit in, a preserved Milwaukee Road "Boxcab" electric at a museum in Duluth MN.
Electrics are my favorite type of locomotive. I model the Milwaukee Road's passenger activity out of Seattle Union Station. My scratchbuilt, N-scale, model of the station is shown below.

Traction Fan


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## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

N or Z scale for your space. Find a starter set that best fits your thinking. It is the best bang fr the buck. Slowly build on from here. Make it fun always.....


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## migalyto (Nov 7, 2015)

Brandon.

Before you invest a single penny into any N scale locomotives (if that's the route you choose) consult this site before you purchase, especially before you buy a $200 plus locomotive. 

spookshow.net


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

migalyto said:


> Brandon.
> 
> Before you invest a single penny into any N scale locomotives (if that's the route you choose) consult this site before you purchase, especially before you buy a $200 plus locomotive.
> 
> spookshow.net


Thanks for the advice Mike. I’ve found a couple I’m interested in. I’ll have to do some research. The problem I’m having now is understanding how the layouts work with the different designs. I’m sonnew I don’t understand how some of them actually work. I think that’s what’s frustrating me now. I found a few layouts I like but not sure how the trains actually run kn them. Like I said, completely new to the hobby


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

BrandonB said:


> Thanks for the advice Mike. I’ve found a couple I’m interested in. I’ll have to do some research. The problem I’m having now is understanding how the layouts work with the different designs. I’m sonnew I don’t understand how some of them actually work. I think that’s what’s frustrating me now. I found a few layouts I like but not sure how the trains actually run kn them. Like I said, completely new to the hobby


BrandonB;

If you want to go with an actual train set (as opposed to separately purchased pieces) Kato makes excellent sets of all high quality products. They're more expensive than Bachmann sets, but you'll be getting much better products, including their "Unitrack" roadbed track which is the best roadbed track on the market.

When you build your railyard, you'll need "turnouts" (model railroader's preferred name for track switches) Here's where the quality difference really shows up in a big way. Kato turnouts are well-made, and very reliable. Bachmann EZ-Track turnouts are neither well-made or reliable, at all. In fact they're downright lousy, the worst turnouts on the market.

As far as picking a track plan, you won't have room for much more than a simple loop of track, and a small, two or three track, yard. Kato has several track plans that should work. They show you which track pieces you'll need, and how much space each layout needs. I saw a few that would fit your space nicely. Check online at www.KatoUSA.com and see what you can find.

Traction Fan


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

traction fan said:


> BrandonB;
> 
> If you want to go with an actual train set (as opposed to separately purchased pieces) Kato makes excellent sets of all high quality products. They're more expensive than Bachmann sets, but you'll be getting much better products, including their "Unitrack" roadbed track which is the best roadbed track on the market.
> 
> ...


This is the track plan I’m interested in, that according to the website fits on a 2’x4’ area. I’ll definitely be going with the Kato track. Also, I’ve found 2 diesel locos I want but I won’t be getting them for a while. They’re both Kato. Let me know what you think about this layout!


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

Welcome to the forum and to the hobby! I give only three pieces of advice to someone new. 

The first is to find a beginner's guide to model railroading, it can be a book or video, and study it from end to end, and think about it as you go. You are going to get mega tons of advice and opinions, which is all good and worth considering, but it can become very over whelming in a hurry. 

The second piece of advice is to build in modules in case you have to move, but your planned size is small enough you won't need to worry about it. 

The third piece of advice is to remember that it's your railroad for your enjoyment, the only right thing to do is what you want.

Happy railroading,
Richard


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Youtube vids are a phenomenal source of knowledge at any knowledge level. But starting out, everyone is excited. That can create tunnel vision. N scale may indeed be your best course. But I would suggest not only looking at the benefits, but the drawbacks too. This goes for anybody with any scale. 
A great youtuber in N scale specifically is DIY & DIGITAL TRAINS. Check out his vids for a goldmine, nay diamond mine of info. DJsTrains is also a fantastic channel but I think probably geared towards more knowledgable modelers (my opinion)?

As to how layouts work, or a given layout would/should/or could work is not exactly cemented in place. Some elements are, like run around track, but the “big picture” of how a layout works can vary. 
Many, but not all enthusiasts, like to imitate real railroads for example. So theirs have customer industries, yards for sorting & routing, and destinations (sometimes implied off layout). In that approach, every element and the RR as an entity serve a purpose: getting product from point A to point Z. That’s no mystery. But how that is accomplished is where various elements enter. The purpose of a yard, of an interchange track, a team track, cross overs, etc.
For example: the layout plan you posted above isn’t bad. One thing I see lacking is the straight track in front only has one cross over to the loop. It needs two, one at the other end in a mirrored arrangement. Lacking that, any train destined for that track must face the left, or reverse onto it.

A common N scale starter layout size & method is using an interior door as a base, typically about 36” by 72” or so? Many plans for that size have two loops.


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

OilValleyRy said:


> Youtube vids are a phenomenal source of knowledge at any knowledge level. But starting out, everyone is excited. That can create tunnel vision. N scale may indeed be your best course. But I would suggest not only looking at the benefits, but the drawbacks too. This goes for anybody with any scale.
> A great youtuber in N scale specifically is DIY & DIGITAL TRAINS. Check out his vids for a goldmine, nay diamond mine of info. DJsTrains is also a fantastic channel but I think probably geared towards more knowledgable modelers (my opinion)?
> 
> As to how layouts work, or a given layout would/should/or could work is not exactly cemented in place. Some elements are, like run around track, but the “big picture” of how a layout works can vary.
> ...


Thanks for the info! It’s funny you mentioned DIY & DIGITAL TRAINS channel! I was watching one of his videos when you posted your message. Watching the one where he shows how to weather N scale locos. He has a great channel as you said! I’m gathering ideas and money and once I get a plan for my layout I’ll let you guys know what I come up with. I actually liked N scale as a kid because of the space restrictions I had then too, but also love the details of the HO. But I have a plan in mind as far as my locos and rolling stock so I’ll see how it develops


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

How do you intend to support the layout? Will it be a wall mounted shelving unit? Or a plastic free standing shelving unit? Dedicated legs?

The reason I ask is a potential solution to your dilemma. Eliminate the decision of choosing scale all together. Do an N scale layout with a loop. And also do a short 4 foot long shelf switching puzzle to satisfy your detailing desires. Excluding loco & rolling stock, a 4ft switching layout can be built for $100. There is a kind of “poker game” train order concept I use for mine. 
That’s kinda what I did. I have an N scale layout right now but I don’t discuss or use it much. Plain DC. Went back to focusing on HO since buying a house with a basement. While under construction I have a 4ft HO switching puzzle to tide me over. That would fit atop a bedroom dresser. I was going to build & sell them as both cheap starter layouts & for those with “no space” for a fun layout. There’s a topic somewhere in the HO section I believe… micro or mini train teaser or named something like that, which details of how the “game” part of it works.


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

OilValleyRy said:


> How do you intend to support the layout? Will it be a wall mounted shelving unit? Or a plastic free standing shelving unit? Dedicated legs?
> 
> The reason I ask is a potential solution to your dilemma. Eliminate the decision of choosing scale all together. Do an N scale layout with a loop. And also do a short 4 foot long shelf switching puzzle to satisfy your detailing desires. Excluding loco & rolling stock, a 4ft switching layout can be built for $100. There is a kind of “poker game” train order concept I use for mine.
> That’s kinda what I did. I have an N scale layout right now but I don’t discuss or use it much. Plain DC. Went back to focusing on HO since buying a house with a basement. While under construction I have a 4ft HO switching puzzle to tide me over. That would fit atop a bedroom dresser. I was going to build & sell them as both cheap starter layouts & for those with “no space” for a fun layout. There’s a topic somewhere in the HO section I believe… micro or mini train teaser or named something like that, which details of how the “game” part of it works.


I was going to build or buy one with legs on it. Started thinking about using the interior door method for the top. Do you have pics of the switching layout? Not sure exactly what that is. Are you talking about that for N scale or HO?


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

A pretty good switching layout in this thread. Just to give you an idea.








Ho scale switching layout


I built over the last couple days a switching layout. It is 1 foot wide by 6 foot long. There is a 3 foot extension for staging as well. The underside electrical feed wires are connected to a small section of flex track, and in this application makes for a clean look. I sprayed the track...




www.modeltrainforum.com





Magic


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

BrandonB said:


> I was going to build or buy one with legs on it. Started thinking about using the interior door method for the top. Do you have pics of the switching layout? Not sure exactly what that is. Are you talking about that for N scale or HO?


Sorry for the confusion. Here are 3 photos of my currently existing N scale switching corridor. I measured to be sure, 8 feet by 18 inches.



























My HO switching puzzle was best explained in a discussion with member Longvallon. You can find it HERE, post #8 in the discussion details how it was designed and built. Post #9 explains precisely how it works, with photo progression of operation. This was the one I built for $100 (actually less but rounded it up).


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

BrandonB said:


> This is the track plan I’m interested in, that according to the website fits on a 2’x4’ area. I’ll definitely be going with the Kato track. Also, I’ve found 2 diesel locos I want but I won’t be getting them for a while. They’re both Kato. Let me know what you think about this layout!
> View attachment 588445


BrandonB;

For the space you have, I think its a good choice. The drawback might be cost. There's a lot of track (for the limited space) and a lot of turnouts. All Kato products are excellent across the board. Including their track & turnouts, but they're not cheap.
You might consider building this layout in stages. Maybe start out with the main loop, and one or two sidings? Add the yard, engine house, and more sidings, gradually, as your budget permits. Kato also offers expansion kits to add onto their basic Unitrack layouts. You might check those out.

One improvement I suggest is eliminating the very bottom track, and the three turnouts attached to it.
(The first one comes directly off the main loop, and feeds directly into the second, forming a crossover. The third is to the immediate right of turnouts 1 & 2)
This track serves no real purpose that I can see, and I think there may be a better use for the space it occupies.

Look at the top center part of your diagram. Immediately below the top (main loop) track there is another short bit of straight track, between two turnouts. This overall track arrangement forms what's called a "runaround track." Runaround tracks are very useful. They let a locomotive run around its train to couple onto the opposite end. This is essential for some switching moves. (which you will learn about later)
The problem with this runaround track is that its too short to hold much of a train. Of course you won't be able to run long trains on the short "main line" of your loop, but that runaround track looks like it won't hold more than three freight cars.

It might be possible to have a slightly longer runaround track, by sliding the entire track plan downward, into the space formerly occupied by that bottom track I suggested that you eliminate. Now the saved space is at the top, instead of the bottom. If you can move the two turnouts that are now at the ends of the runaround track outwards, and incorporate them into the curves of your main loop*, then you could install a new , longer, runaround track at the very top and eliminate the short one.

As I was typing this, I realized that, since you're so new, it may be "over your head" in terms of understanding what I mean. If so, that's OK. The track plan as is will work.

Traction Fan 🙂

* I'm not familiar enough with the geometry of Kato turnouts to know if they will be able to fit into the curves well. You did say that you had three feet of table depth, and this plan only needs two feet. So some expansion should work.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Is the track plan you chose one using Kato Unitrack? Just be aware that Unitrack comes in different radius and lengths than most N and HO track sold in the US. For example, the common HO 18" radius is not available in Unitrack. Kato makes a 19-1/4 radius and a 16-7/8" radius among others. I'm sure that holds true with N scale, the difference being that Kato track is made according to the metric system.


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## BrandonB (4 mo ago)

OilValleyRy said:


> Sorry for the confusion. Here are 3 photos of my currently existing N scale switching corridor. I measured to be sure, 8 feet by 18 inches.
> View attachment 588461
> 
> 
> ...


That’s pretty cool! I’d definitely be interested in setting up something like that once I figure out out to use that layout lol.


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## Booly15 (Aug 16, 2017)

MohawkMike said:


> N or Z scale for your space. Find a starter set that best fits your thinking. It is the best bang fr the buck. Slowly build on from here. Make it fun always.....


z scale if you have great vision, or can where magnifying glasses


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## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

My layout is N scale and only a foot longer at 5x3, than the one you're planning. I have the outside track plus a small freight yard. Here's a Pic, hope it helps give you an idea of where you'd like to go.


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## cman22 (5 mo ago)

traction fan said:


> Brandon;
> 
> Welcome to the forum, and to model railroading. With your small available space, I suggest you look seriously at N-scale, or Z-scale. The larger HO-scale, and even larger O-scale, will be difficult/impossible to fit in a 3' x 4' area. HO-scale needs a minimum of 4' of layout depth to make a 180 degree turn. So you couldn't fit your desired "continuous track on the outside."
> Your plan for a "large railyard" is also, shall we say, more than a bit ambitious for the small space you have, particularly if you want anything else. This is quite normal, and common. Practically all newbies grossly underestimate what will actually fit into their limited available spaces.
> ...


Just finished reading downloaded file on turnouts and all I have to say is i'm glad I decided to start my new hobby with vintage 027 steam. That is enough of a challenge for me to get my feet wet!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

cman22 said:


> Just finished reading downloaded file on turnouts and all I have to say is i'm glad I decided to start my new hobby with vintage 027 steam. That is enough of a challenge for me to get my feet wet!


cman22;

Whatever scale works for you, they're all good.😊

If you're referring to my file, "All about turnouts" Yes, there's a lot of information in there. However, it does point out some good turnouts, and I hope clears up some confusion about turnouts in general.

I had O-27 as a kid (Didn't we all start out with Lionel?) The three-rail system does have its electrical advantages. Not having to be concerned about which outside rail connects to what in a turnout is one of them. The ability to use an insulated section of one of the outside rails to trigger lights, gates, signals, Etc. is another.
Yes, having that extra rail down the center looks unrealistic, though perhaps less so with the new track and its smaller, dark, center rail.
I've never encountered a three-rail modeler who was at all worried about the appearance though. They will take all the neat operating accessories, heft of those big trains, onboard sounds & smoke, and the sheer fun of three-rail trains anytime.

Traction Fan 🙂


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