# Rail Pro for newbee?



## downunda (Jul 23, 2016)

Hi Folks, I'm retired and have been aeromodelling for many years but have always been interested in model railways and am thinking of taking it up as a second hobby.

I'm probably going to go the HO route and have been reading a lot about DCC and although it offers great scope it looks to be somewhat complex which is compounded by the unfriendly user interface. Some of the DCC cab controllers I've come across appear to help simplify operations and as a result seem to have real limitations. Other DCC controllers I've looked at seem too complex. Is there any in-between? 

I have a few questions that I welcome opinions and advice on before I make any decisions. I'm really confused as to whether I should go the DCC route.

I'm still doing lots of research as its still early days for me so I'm at the stage where I don't know what I don't know

1) I've been looking at the Rail Pro system and although I know its not DCC it does look very user friendly. Aside from it being a proprietary system what limitations and downsides do you see with Rail Pro that I may not be aware of? 

2) If I went with Rail pro. Would I be limited in the variety of locos from quality manufacturers (such as Athearn etc.) as I would need them without DCC.

3) I welcome suggestions about a DCC controller system that is perhaps easier to operate but still offers flexibility (is than an oxymoron?) and doesn't limit my options longer term.

Thanks again,


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

downunda said:


> 1) I've been looking at the Rail Pro system and although I know its not DCC it does look very user friendly. Aside from it being a proprietary system what limitations and downsides do you see with Rail Pro that I may not be aware of?
> 
> 2) If I went with Rail pro. Would I be limited in the variety of locos from quality manufacturers (such as Athearn etc.) as I would need them without DCC.
> 
> Thanks again,


RailPro will NOT limit your choice of locos. The RailPro control module fits into the standard DCC connectors that are found in "DCC ready" locos. If you are a little handy with small things, you can install them yourself. However, if you install RailPro in DC locos that are not DCC ready, you will have to rewire the insides of the locos to make it work -- or pay someone else to do it for you. But that is true for DCC as well.

A minor downside to RailPro is that, if you add sound to your loco, the selection of sounds is smaller than with DCC. Another minor downside to RailPro (depending on what computer you have) is that you get software and sound updates for your system through your computer and a USB cable. Their updating system does not work for Apple computers -- only Windows.

A big upside to RailPro is that consisting locos is MUCH easier. Watch RailPro videos. It really does take less than a minute and less than 10 taps on the controller. No other setup involved. And you can consist ANY two RailPro locos -- even diesel to steam.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

One other slight benefit to RailPro vs. DCC. DCC sends signals to the locos from the controller through the track. Rail-Pro sends signals to the locos via radio signals through the air. If your trackwork is dirty or not perfect, loco wheels can momentarily loose contact with the rails. These breaks can sometimes cause the loco to stop and lock up, requiring a reset to get things going again.

With RailPro, the loco will still stop if it loses contact with the rails. But once contact is reestablished, the loco will continue at the same speed that it was running at, with no changes to sounds and lights. In my experience, the loco restarts itself after about a second.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I am not sufficiently informed about Railpro, to
offer an opinion, however,
I would like to offer more thoughts on standard DCC.

I don't know what you've seen that causes you to
think that DCC is complex. While Railpro may have
advantages; you'll not have the world wide network
of DCC operators who can help you with any
snag you might encounter.

In short, the DCC track is always powered with around
14 volts of modified AC. That carries the digital
information from the Controller. Unless you have a
large layout, you'll likely need only 2 wires to the
track.

If you can use a TV remote you can be an expert
with a DCC controller. You do not need any
digital or computer knowledge. You just push
buttons and turn knobs. 

You asked about 'middle ground' controllers. Yes,
I use the Bachmann EZ DCC system. The controller
has 10 buttons, you press one to select the loco
you wish to control. It also has a reverse direction
button and a speed control knob. There are a couple
of other buttons for special effects. I recently did a short
test, with that system I had all nine of my DCC
locos running at the same time.

Don


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

DonR said:


> I don't know what you've seen that causes you to think that DCC is complex. While Railpro may have advantages; you'll not have the world wide network of DCC operators who can help you with any snag you might encounter


True. However, I have found very little need with help on RailPro. The few times that I did, I emailed Ring Engineering -- who makes RailPro, and I always got a complete, thorough answer in less than 24 hours.



DonR said:


> In short, the DCC track is always powered with around 14 volts of modified AC. That carries the digital information from the Controller. Unless you have a large layout, you'll likely need only 2 wires to the track.


RailPro is very similar here. The track is always powered at 14 volts, but simple DC, not modified AC. So only a few wired needed -- just like DCC. However, you do need to use RailPro's power pack. The radio signals go from the control directly to the loco, AND ALSO to the power pack, which also sends them to the loco. This is a duplicate system. If one signal gets blocked somehow, the other will likely get through. I have never had a loco miss a signal.

However, if you have a large layout, (I'm guessing that 20 ft is large -- my guess, not theirs) the radio signal may not get all the way from one end of the table to the other. Then you will need a second power supply to pic up the signal from the first power supply and relay it to the loco.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Also, not sure if your a solo modeler or you belong to or are interested in joining any clubs near you.

Might be of benefit for you to investigate that first, then decide on something later. I went with Digitrax due to the 2 local clubs near me use it.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm with Don, manufacturers know they need to make systems and instructions easy as some will be using DCC for the first time and they need to keep them happy. Operating and using a DCC system can be as simple or complicated as you wish, you can mess with CVs to fine tune motors or add special light effects or just do the basics and run trains. Have a read of this appraisal of the current offerings from someone that sells them: http://www.dccconcepts.com/resource...vice-6-Or-DCC-Brand-By-Brand-Opinion-2014.pdf


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## downunda (Jul 23, 2016)

Thanks Cycleops and the others for your ideas and recommendations. I've downloaded the guide from DCC Concepts and found it immensely informative. 

I've still not ruled out Rail Pro in favour of DCC. In terms of DCC the article from DCC Concepts certainly points out good points and shortcomings (in their opinion) in a number of products I'd been looking at. 
So if I do go the DCC route I now know a few products that I should avoid.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

3.8TransAM said:


> Also, not sure if your a solo modeler or you belong to or are interested in joining any clubs near you.
> 
> Might be of benefit for you to investigate that first, then decide on something later. I went with Digitrax due to the 2 local clubs near me use it.


Good point.

However, according to Ring Engineering, you can run your RailPro loco with your RailPro controller on a DCC layout, at the same time that DCC controllers are running DCC trains. The two systems are independent of each other.

Three things to note about this:

(1) I have not tested this, because there are no clubs near where I live.
(2) The club may insist that only DCC trains run on their layout -- their layout, their rules.
(3) If the layout is large, you may have to follow your train around to make sure that the train stays in radio contact with the controller (see comment in post #5 regarding RailPro and large layouts).


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## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

I bought the Digitrax Zephyr. I'm also very new to DCC and I found this unit easy to use (with help from their videos and my colleagues here on the forum!)

Mike


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Yes, it's quite an interesting read. You've probably already done it but have a look on YouTube to check out some system comparisons, you'll likely see some for Rail Pro as well. It'll give you an idea of how they are operate.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

MikeL said:


> I bought the Digitrax Zephyr. I'm also very new to DCC and I found this unit easy to use (with help from their videos and my colleagues here on the forum!)
> 
> Mike


That is my only complaint about my Digitrax.

Manuals are kind of crappy, so you need to do research and reach out to friends and youtube videos to figure some of it out.

Should not be that way after 20 years on any of the DCC systems.


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## SD90 (May 25, 2016)

I'm also on the fence as to which control system to go with. I have to say, I'm still leaning towards RailPro, for ease of use, and I really like that controller and interface. 
Also, RailPro has a feature similar to LokSound's full throttle, where you can manually notch the prime mover up independent of the locomotive's speed. (to simulate a heavy train, or going up a grade)
The only 2 down sides I see is the sound files aren't quite where ESU's LokSound is yet, however, RailPro is upgrading their sounds, hopefully it won't be too long till they catch up. The second downside (for me anyway) is I only use Mac's, so I'd have to get a Windows computer to program.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

SD90 said:


> I'm also on the fence as to which control system to go with. I have to say, I'm still leaning towards RailPro.......
> 
> The second downside (for me anyway) is I only use Mac's, so I'd have to get a Windows computer to program.


As I said earlier, that is a problem. But, don't buy a Windows machine just for RailPro. You only need to connect the RailPro controller to a Windows machine when you need to either (1) download the newest version of their software or (2) download new sound or picture files. See if you can find a friend or relative that has a Windows machine.

I have had my RailPro system for about 6 months now. I have not had to connect to Windows, yet. In that time period there has not been a software update. (They will send you an email when there is an update -- or you can look on their website.) When I do need to connect, I have made arrangements with my daughter's boyfriend -- who has a Windows machine.

As for the sound files, because I have old locos (pre DCC), they needed some significant rewiring to install the RailPro decoder (as they would for a DCC controller, as well). So I had Yankee Dabbler (who is a RailPro dealer) install the decoders for me. At my request they installed all of the steam drivers and sound files in the controller and locos before they shipped my locos back to me (I have only steamers). Had I installed the decoders myself, I would have needed to hook up to a Windows machine to get the files. Once you have the sound files, you can move or copy then around between the controller and the decoders on your locos.

By the way, if you decide to go with RailPro, don't buy it directly from Ring Engineering. You can get it significantly cheaper from Yankee Dabbler -- and from some other on-line stores.


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## downunda (Jul 23, 2016)

*Controllers on youtube*

I have downloaded quite a few youtube videos of people using or testing various cab controllers and these have been quite informative. The shortcomings of some DCC controllers becomes quite evident when seeing them in use, of course one only sees the more basic functions being used so in depth functionality may vary.

Rail pro certainly looks very good when seen being used on video, as for DCC the NCE Powercab/Pro series seems to have better ergonomics than some others. Certainly for a beginner with the Powercab it looks like one can get up and running with basic functions in no time.

Does anyone know how many systems Rail Pro has sold and if the organisation is financially solid as I'd hate to buy something that disappears from the market as soon as I buy it as the ZTC system did. ZTC was one that showed a lot of promise.

Lots of good discussion and input from you folks, thanks.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

downunda said:


> Rail pro certainly looks very good when seen being used on video....
> Does anyone know how many systems Rail Pro has sold and if the organisation is financially solid as I'd hate to buy something that disappears from the market as soon as I buy it as the ZTC system did, one that showed a lot of promise.


I have no idea how many systems they have sold -- and a lot of small, private companies do not share sales info, and certainly not financial info.

But I can say that i have found Ring Engineering to be very responsive to direct requests for help. When I was researching RailPro, I spend almost 2 months in a back and forth email exchange with Ring Engineering, asking all kinds of questions (that I could not find the answers to on their web site). I always got a prompt and complete answer. When I got to the point that I wanted to hear their sounds (but did not have a windows machine -- which would let me hear them myself), they converted some of their sound files into playable files and sent them to me via email.


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## Jacobpaul81 (Jan 24, 2015)

I'm going Railpro for my layout. 

I've compared it with DC, DCC, and even bluetooth and decided it's for me. I appreciate the true RC control Railpro offers. 

From a cost standpoint, the system itself is relatively low for this hobby - power and a control are offered at a price point comparable to beginning DCC systems. 

The LM3 is more expensive for non-sound when compared with DC decoders, but the LM3-S is comparable to or cheaper than adding sound in DCC. Although the cost is roughly the same between Bluetooth (via Bluerail) and the LM3-S, currently available in-loco sound is clearly the winner. LM1 and LM2 are still available on the market and will get cheaper here real soon if you have applications they can fit in. 

In all cases, it's installed just like DCC or Bluetooth. A DCC ready locomotive will be easier than DC, etc. 

Finally, The ability to run on a DC or DCC layout make it a winner in my book.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Jacobpaul81 said:


> I'm going Railpro for my layout.
> .....
> Finally, The ability to run on a DC or DCC layout make it a winner in my book.


I'm not sure about running RailPro on a DC layout. As I said earlier you can run it on a DCC layout, while DCC locos are also running.

RailPro requires continuous 14 volts to operate on. DC uses variable voltages. I and GUESSING, that you MIGHT be able to run RailPro on a DC layout IF; (a) all blocks are turned on for the same cab (Cab A, for example), (b) the voltage for Cab A is turned up to 14 volts, and (c) NO DC locos are on the layout. If DC locos are present, they will take off at full speed.

Also, I THINK that I recall that one of the problems with using RailPro locos on a DC track is that some DC transformers use a pulsing voltage -- designed to make locos start up more gradually. I THINK I remember that this pulsing would cause problems with the RailPro locos. But I am not sure about that.

Notice that I said "guessing", "think", "might", and "not sure". You need to contact Ring Engineering directly and ask them about this situation if it is important to you.

-----

NOW, what follows below is DIFFERENT from what you were discussing. But, I just want you to know what I do. I already had a DC layout with 2 cabs and block switches when I discovered RailPro. I have a number of old DC locos. Two of them have been converted to RailPro. It is likely that I will eventually convert all of them to RailPro. In the meantime, I want to run both RailPro locos and DC locos -- BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME.

I have installed a master switch on my layout that switches from DC to RailPro. This switch makes it impossible for me to run both systems simultaneously -- which would not be good for the locos running on the wrong system, and which might end in both systems shorting each other out -- also not good. All I have to do is make sure that the correct locos are on the track before I turn the system on.


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## Jacobpaul81 (Jan 24, 2015)

MtRR75 said:


> I'm not sure about running RailPro on a DC layout. As I said earlier you can run it on a DCC layout, while DCC locos are also running.
> 
> RailPro requires continuous 14 volts to operate on.


Railpro's power supply is fixed voltage DC - therefore, it does operate on a DC layout.  Just not a "traditional" variable DC layout. Guess I should have prefaced "DC". 

Besides- a variable layout would negate the whole point of the product which is to operate free from the complications of DC wiring or DCC programming. :thumbsup:


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## MikeB (Feb 11, 2016)

Very interesting info here. I read through this because I'm also interested in converting to DCC. I have one DC ready Bachmann steam engine, the rest of my loco's are 25+ year old lifelike or Bachmann engines that have been in an attic. They all need a serious cleaning to run again. My DCC steam engine is new, so I've been running it with my old DC controller. 

After seeing the Bachmann ez system at a train show, I was tempted to buy it. I've since been reading through the DCC pages here and have pretty much decided to go with the NCE power cab. Since I'll be running just 2-3 engines it should be right for me. 

I'm planning on using my current DC controller for my turnouts.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Jacobpaul81 said:


> Besides- a variable DC layout would negate the whole point of the product which is to operate free from the complications of DC wiring or DCC programming


True. I thought your original comment about the benefits of being able to run RailPro locos on a DC layout was referring to the possibility of running your RailPro trains on a friend's or club's DC layout. For constructing your own RailPro layout, there is no benefit to adding DC capability.


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## downunda (Jul 23, 2016)

I have at last made a decision, so thanks again for all of your views, you've been most helpful.

After seeing a good video that covered basic operations of the NCE Power Cab I finally went with that product. I still acknowledge that Rail Pro is much more user friendly than the DCC offerings I looked at and considered. However the application of "standards" that DCC is based on swayed me as I believe that in the longer term DCC will offer me broader purchase options.

Thanks again.


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## hirailer (Oct 24, 2013)

In the three years I have been running RailPro on my layout, I have had no problems of any kind.

Ring Engineering have been in business for more than 10 years, I doubt if they are going anywhere soon. RailPro has been a super success for them.

I have run one of my thirty year old Atlas/Roco GP-40 locomotives that I have hard wired nine pin connectors (same for DCC) on a club layout that is Digitrax DCC. My loco ran perfectly. I would not advise anyone to use a RailPro equipped loco (or DCC for that matter) on straight DC.

RailPro users have their own forum that is not affiliated with Ring Engineering. I invite anyone interested to have a look, there is a ton of information there.

http://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php

Mel


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## SRV1 (Nov 14, 2010)

I stumbled on this thread kind of late but I would throw my vote in for RailPro as well. I know everything is geared towards DCC and DCC is still all that's talked about in 2017, but RailPro is way ahead of it's time and is likely the future. I have both DCC engines and RailPro equipped. I have an NCE powercab and the RailPro HC-2. The HC-2 makes the Powercab seem like something from the 1950s to be honest. 

The user interface you're presented with, in a Railpro wireless, color, touchscreen controller with images of your locos is so nice and easy to use. Consisting is so easy. You can monitor the current and temps of individual locos. The new software allows you to upload images of your own and put them into the controller. The controller controls switches, accessories and I don't remember how many individual trains. I think it was up to 47 locos. Besides that the biggest advantage it has is the ability to evenly and automatically, divide power between the locos in a consist, regardless of motor or manufacturer. Power is divided up evenly so everything is pulling. Locos can be oriented in any direction easily.
The power pack that comes with it is enough power for most layout needs without needing boosters. A railpro equipped loco with an HC-2 controller can run on any DCC layout's power. 
My one complaint is the website software is not as technologically advanced as you'd expect. It's just not as user friendly as it could be. But it does allow you to download individual horns, whistles, bells, and other sounds to put on whatever you want. 
They are constantly trying to make things better. I've talked with them on the phone a couple times. Long conversations. Very helpful.
Really have nothing against DCC but when RailPro came out (like 10 years ago?) it instantly made DCC seem archaic.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

SRV1 said:


> The RailPro controller controls switches, accessories and I don't remember how many individual trains. I think it was up to 47 locos.


According to their website, the limit is 24 locos. You can have more locos than that loaded into the hand held unit, but you can only have 24 under active control at one time. This is actually a ridiculously large number. Since you only have one loco showing on the screen at any time, you can only MAKE ADJUSTMENTS to one loco at a time. The other 23 will keep moving (and sounding, if installed) as you last set them. It takes about 3-10 seconds to switch locos -- mostly depending on how many screens you have to scroll through to get to the one that you want -- if you have a lot of locos installed. The bottom line is that very few of us have a large enough layout that more than 3-4 trains can run unattended for any length of time without needing turnouts thrown or changes in speed.

How, if you have an operating session and you have 9 friends over (AND each has their own RailPro hand-held controller), they can easily control 1-2 trains each and keep things moving -- if the ops session is well designed.

You should also know that RailPro recently introduced a computer interface that you can purchase instead of the hand-held unit – and the computer interface is MUCH cheaper than the hand-held unit. If that sounds interesting, read up on it. I know very little about it, and I am not interested, because: (1) I already own the hand-held controller (probably the least important reason), (2) I like to follow my trains around, and the hand-held unit is much easier to carry than is a laptop. I think (not sure) that the computer software is supposed to run on tablets, too, but I don’t own one, (3) I love the large, smooth-running, speed-control knob on the hand-held unit. With the software, to control speed, you have to do something on the touch screen that I would find much more cumbersome.

As for turnout control, I prefer to stay with my traditional control panel with SPDT switches mounted on a diagram of the trackplan. I can visualize what turnouts need to be switched much faster with this system, and I can switch the turnouts quickly without leaving the Railpro screen for the loco that I am controlling. I also am installing LED indicators on my control panel that will tell me which way ALL of turnouts are pointing, without having to change screens on the RailPro handheld unit to get this info.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

SRV1 said:


> My one complaint is the website software is not as technologically advanced as you'd expect. It's just not as user friendly as it could be. But it does allow you to download individual horns, whistles, bells, and other sounds to put on whatever you want.


Agreed. But the good news is that you only have to use it occasionally -- whenever Ring Engineering releases software updates or new sound files.

The thing that I find most aggravating is that there is no way to play the sounds -- except to load the into a RailPro loco. It would be much easier to choose the sounds that you want for specific locos if you could 1-click play them on the website, then decide which ones you want to download.


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## ExONRcarman (Feb 7, 2017)

wow. almost too much info. jotta spend some more hours researching now. lol. thanks a lot guys. now you have confused me. will dcc engines work with rail pro? someone mentioned rail pro compatible engines?


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

MtRR75 said:


> Good point.
> 
> However, according to Ring Engineering, you can run your RailPro loco with your RailPro controller on a DCC layout, at the same time that DCC controllers are running DCC trains. The two systems are independent of each other.
> 
> ...


I know you can supposedly run them on DCC layout.

My point to him was, whether he was a lone wolf or interested in clubs in the area or is he already/thinking about becoming a member. If that's that case, go with stuff you can get local hands on help if needed. Your life will be better for it.

Besides all this will be a moot point in the not so distant future. Bachmann Blutooth stuff will be the new future. They sell more trainsets than anyone and you eliminated half the problem already and everyone nowadays has a free throttle.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

ExONRcarman said:


> wow. almost too much info. jotta spend some more hours researching now. lol. thanks a lot guys. now you have confused me. will dcc engines work with rail pro? someone mentioned rail pro compatible engines?


The power source determines the system (DC, DCC or Rail Pro).

What makes a loco DC or DCC or RailPro is what kind of a decoder it has inside of it. If it has no decoder it is a DC loco. If it has a socket for a decoder, but the socket is empty, it is still a DC loco. (These are usually advertised as DCC ready).

As for what runs on a RailPro-powered track, only RailPro locos. DC locos put on a RailPro track will immediately take off at top speed. There is no way to moderate that speed. DCC locos on a RailPro track will have no way to receive signals to tell them what to do, because the signals need to be embedded in the DCC power supplied to the track.

However, a Ralipro loco should run on a DCC track -- using the RailPro hand-held controller. Both types of tracks are at full power at all times. The RailPro loco will ignore all the DCC signals and only obey the RailPro radio signals. However, I do recall reading somewhere about a modeler who took his RailPro loco to a DCC layout and had some unidentified interference between the two systems.


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## ExONRcarman (Feb 7, 2017)

cool. thanks. you saved me lots of research time. Rail pro appears to be about 400 $ am i right or can i find it cheaper? as for dcc, bachman the way to go?


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

I bought my RailPro system from Yankee Dabbler

http://www.yankeedabbler.com

I'm sure that there are other dealers offering discounts.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Train layout control ????????*

Thanks for all the information on Rail pro for radio control.Now, I'm not quite sure on what type of control system to go with?
I feel I need to do some more research.
Thank you all for the interesting discussion.
I like the idea of more sounds,though
Is the rail pro system comparable to Power cab's system for stationary devices?And can the rail pro system interface with a PC
in order to achieve some type of control? Automation? Thanks!
Regard's,
tr1


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## Homeless by Choice (Apr 15, 2016)

tr1 said:


> Thanks for all the information on Rail pro for radio control.Now, I'm not quite sure on what type of control system to go with?
> I feel I need to do some more research.
> Thank you all for the interesting discussion.
> I like the idea of more sounds,though
> ...


Why don't you join the RailPro forum and ask your questions there?
https://rpug.pdc.ca/index.php

Take a look at all the forum threads. Several of your questions are already answered.

LeRoy


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