# Lionel 1511 (or 1508?) Windup Loco & 1516T Tender



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I spotted this little Lionel prewar pairing as a Buy It Now Or Best Offer on ebay, just moments after it was listed. I bartered with the seller a bit, and picked up this cute little loco/tender for a not too painful dent in the wallet.

I think (???) that the loco is a #1511 ... windup motor, with a ding-ding bell. That said, I'm not sure I fully understand the differences between a 1511 and the similar-looking 1508 loco. I've seen 1508's with whistle/chugger mechanisms mounted to the front of the motor. My loco doesn't have that ... it has the bell, instead. However, I'm not sure if the whistle or bell feature is what solely identifies and distinguishes a 1508 from a 1511. ???

Can anyone clarify this for me?

The shell on the loco is in nice shape for its age. No dents, everthing there (with the exception of a bezel ring on the headlamp). I'll likely do a strip / repaint on this and the mated 1516T tender.

Unfortunately, the windup motor is pretty much toast. Broken spring. Brittle/fractured gears with lots of teeth missing. Cracked wheels. Etc. That said, the motor is identical to the near-mint one that I've cleaned up for my 1506L loco project (that's on my bench). Maybe I'll swap that motor over to this loco.

Either way, I think this little guy (and tender) will be a nice display showpiece with a fresh / shiny coat of red.

I'll keep you guys posted ...

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I found this, it is supposed to be a 1508.

Besides whatever that thing is under the nose that yours don't have, it looks to me like the wheels might be different?

At least the number of spokes I think are different.

Edit,
nope the wheels look the same looking a second time.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Did you see what the 1508 is going for in the book?

1508 Commodore Vanderbilt, w/t 1509 Mickey Mouse stoker tender
1935 $420 in good shape $690 in x shape.

The 1511 36-37$110 good $160 in x shape. That is just for the loco no tender mentioned.

Maybe the difference was just the years?

What does your book list them for?


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## steam chaser (Feb 21, 2011)

Very nice, a lot of potential in this sweet looking little loco.I can't wait to see it after your restore. Thanks for sharing,Don


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed --

Your #'s are making me feel pretty lucky. Though I don't have the much-sought-after Micky Mouse tender, I was fortunate to pick up this set for $40, plus a few bucks shipping. I'm happy ... very happy!

I think the 1508's had that chugger/whistle gizmo on the front of the motor, as seen in your example photo. I'm not exactly sure what that actually sounds like.

My catalogs from 1936 and 1937 list the 1511 loco as a "whistling loco" ... Though does that mean the little bell that I have in mine, or the chugger gizmo like the one (1508) on your example???

Hey -- I JUST NOTICED ... My 1511 (if that's what it is) has a battery compartment (for the headlight); whereas the 1508 in your pic does NOT have the battery/headlight. Interesting. Though I thought we had a new guy here the other day who was inquiring about the battery size for a 1508 ... ????

Don -- Many thanks ... I wish the motor was in better shape, but the shell has great potential!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Isn't there anyone who can repair those wind up springs?

Did you happen to score a key too?

Repro springs on the market?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I did pick up a nice windup key a few weeks ago.

This latest motor has problems beyond the spring ... the internal gearing is shot ... really brittle, cracked, missing teeth, etc. R.I.P. little motor ... R.I.P.

That said, if anyone knows of someone who can "raise the dead" on these windup motors, I'd be happy to learn of it.

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

TJ, you might check with StockDrive about replacement gears. They sell all types of small gears. You would have to make the replacements from their selection of gears. http://www.sdp-si.com/


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good info / source, Bruce ... many thanks.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> TJ, you might check with StockDrive about replacement gears. They sell all types of small gears. You would have to make the replacements from their selection of gears. http://www.sdp-si.com/



What about the spring wind up mechanism?

T man could fix it with epoxy!:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*More Fun at the Strip Club ...*

I stripped down my little 1511 windup loco and 1516T tender. The loco assembly entails 3 pieces: a boiler/cab, a boiler front, and the frame. The tender is two pieces. Though this tender is similar to those for my Lionel Jr 1681 locos, this 1516T entry-level version never had a top or coal load. It was issued with its top exposed.

Anyway, pics show how the components look and fit together. Stipped with Walmart lye oven cleaner, and buffed with a stainless Dremel brush.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That are clean!  It's not a good day for painting I think, maybe in a couple of days...


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## steam chaser (Feb 21, 2011)

That is going to be absolutely beautiful,What color are you painting it back,red? I think it would look good red or blue.Great work man,Thumbs up all the way on a first class job.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Man, TJ nice work!!!!! Can't wait to see the finished project.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, guys!

Loco and tender are going to be red, like the original. I use Krylon Banner Red.

I'll have to wait a bit, though ... forecast is for rain the next several days ... not nice painting weather.

TJ


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Poor east coasters--it's sunny, dry, and nearly 100 degrees here in the southwest!

At least the days of rain will give you more time to keep polishing, TJ!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ha ha ... you nailed it ... I think you must be clairvoyant ...

I did some polishing on some trim pieces early this morning, but the weather is a no-go for any paint work over the next 5 or 6 days ... cold, wet, windy.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Mickey Geta a New Ride ...*

Well ... Mickey hasn't actually shown up just yet. But his ride has been all Gucci'd out. A strip/repaint job on the shell components; polish and clearcoat on all of the trim bits. The windup motor is still toast, though ... haven't touched that yet. Don't tell Mickey ... I don't want him to go all Goofy on me!

Oh ... yeah ... that nose bulb ... much too big ... I know ... I know ... 

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I sound like a broken record but another,.......Looks Great Tin Man. :thumbsup:

Are you going to put any kind of lettering on the tender?

One thing that looks odd is the light bulb, looks too big?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, Ed.

Yeah, yeah ... the bulb is much too big ... I know ... I know ... 

No lettering on the tender ... bare red, as original. No "coal load" top, either ... this little tender never had one.

One other bug, though ... I'm missing a nickel bezel ring that goes around the headlamp opening. I need to check with Jeff to see if he might have any available.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK then that is the wrong bulb?

It looks like the train is blowing it up.

Sort of like a bubble blowing machine.

Some gold pin striping would sure look good.:thumbsup:


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I wonder if that gismo in Ed's picture is a generator of some sort for the headlight that runs off of the wheel gearing? Probably just a whistle mechanism on a locomotive with no headlight


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## steam chaser (Feb 21, 2011)

Beautiful job Tj , I wish that I had half your skill level. Mickey will ride with pride,that is as soon as you get his motor fixed.Great job


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

santafe158 said:


> I wonder if that gismo in Ed's picture is a generator of some sort for the headlight that runs off of the wheel gearing? Probably just a whistle mechanism on a locomotive with no headlight



Huh? What picture?


Edit,
Never mind I figured it out.

I forgot I posted that.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Everything looks great TJ! Another fine addition to your collection,


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Paint job looks great. That looks like Rudolph the red nosed raindeer with that bulb!


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Awesome job TJ. Makes me want to buy some derelicts and restore them now.

Carl


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Many, many thanks for all of the nice comments, guys ... much appreciated.

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi guys,

I restored this prewar little Vanderbilt 1511 (or 1508?) loco a while back, details above.

As I've looked at pics of other examples on the 'net, I've seen some with what looks like a bezel ring around the headlamp opening in the nose. There is a lamp socket inside the shell, so a standard threaded bulb has to fit through whatever hole/bezel is there.

I finally got around to asking Jeff Kane about this today. It sounds like his bezels are too small in diameter, and wouldn't be larger enough to accept a bulb.

I'm looking for sources for a bezel that might work. Required dimensions:

Bulb threaded shank diameter: 0.360" ... I.D. of bezel must be bigger than this to accept bulb

I.D. of nose hole in sheet metal shell: 0.420"

O.D. of nose in sheel metal shell: 0.480"

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

TJ










BTW, here's a pic from Live Auctioneers showing what the bezel is supposed to look like:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What's yours look like, that doesn't seem to have a bezel for the light?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm still confused as to the differences between a 1511 loco and a 1508 loco. I think I have a 1511, but I'm not 100% sure.

My loco is the one in the top pic in the post above (nose opening with no bezel). I'm not 100% sure if it ever had a bezel to begin with. I see other similar locos (or 1508's ???) with a bezel, but maybe they had no light socket?



TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The second picture wasn't there when I responded.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

This is an old post, but I purchased the similar locos a few months ago. I am in the restoration process of paint stripping, and re painting. I have numerous books to reference, and came up with how to identify which loco number is which. The 1508 loco came with a Bell, and had a Headlight, operated with a battery. The 1508 was only issued on RED, and was offered in 1935. The correct tender was the 1509T "Mickey Mouse" stoker tender. The 1511 loco had a whistle mechanism on the front of the windup motor, and this didn't have a Headlight. The correct tender was a 4 wheel 1516T tender. It was offered in 1936 & 1937, with the 1936 issue in BLACK, followed by RED in 1937. The identifying component is either a Bell or a Whistle.

TJ's loco is a 1508, with the wrong tender. Trying to find a "Mickey" tender at a good condition, and a decent price, will take some serious searching.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Whoever said that old dinosaurs are extinct? At the risk of shocking paleontologists around the globe, I am happy to ooze back up from the primeval muck for a few moments to say hello to my old MTF friends, and offer a HUGE thank you to Teledoc who has (on numerous occasions) emailed me wonderful updates and tidbits from MTF happenings and his fun investigations of prewar Lionel trains. I guess that's the penance that he must pay, after falling victim to my "prewar addiction" trap.

To all of my old friends here, I offer a heartfelt hello. I also must offer heartfelt apologies for drifting so far from the forum. Life has too often gotten in the way: kids, work, an aging parent. A juggling act that we all likely undertake. Somewhere in their, my free time for trains got (mostly) pushed to the back burner, though Jerry (and some other friends) have enticed me from time to time. And, I've succumb to a few ebay finds and projects here and there ... nothing Earth-shattering ... just enough to keep a little bit of grease under my fingernails.

So, with that long-winded diatribe ...

Teledoc's post above is quite helpful, and answers the age-old question that's been bugging us both ... 1508 vs. 1511 identification. Importantly, Doc also offered this:

The 1508 never had a nose bezel, whereas the 1511 (sometimes) did.

I'll sleep soundly tonight!

Warm regards too all!

TJ


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

TJ, glad to help you with your sleep problem, and being able to identify your old post. I purchased one of these windup Commodore Vanderbilts, and I needed to know which one I had. Since joining the ranks here at MTF, and getting LURED into the darkness of Tinplate, and restorations, I have amassed an extensive Library of Books, Catalogs, etc., that enables me to research all the intricacies of Tinplate. Tinplate and the Prewar stuff is too much fun, and restoring old relics give some of us, a lot of enjoyment, and satisfaction with raising some relics from the Trash Heap, so to say.

Welcome back for however short or long it may be TJ.


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