# custom painted lionel train



## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

hello to everyone. i am new to this forum and my name is mike. i am trying to get some info
on a train my father gave me years ago. it is a custom painted army train that he purchased back in the 80's. the only info he could remember was the name on the business card-Forward March. i was unable to find anything about it online. please help any info would be great. 

thanks


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Do you have any pictures of the train? That would be a huge help.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

i'll have to dig it out. packed away has never been ran. how do i post pics?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> i'll have to dig it out. packed away has never been ran. how do i post pics?


A copy and paste I keep handy,


How to post pictures, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2595 
(There are more ways in the above link but I do the following below)


What I do to post a picture,
1,When your typing your thread, look up top & click on the paper clip.

2,That opens a box then click browse.

3,That will open another box find your picture where ever it is in your computer. (say downloads,camera,files wherever your picture is.)
When you find the picture click on it then click open, it will then be in your box where you clicked browse.

4, Then click upload, wait to make sure it uploads. The minimize that upload box.

5, After it uploads go back to your post box where you are typing and click the paper clip again and click insert attachments. 
(if you forget to go back your pictures will just show as a clickable link instead of a picture in the post. Go back and click the paper clip again after you upload and click insert all or if you only have one picture click on the link there a second time.)
Note, if the picture won't upload most likely it is too big.

Your picture should be in the thread.


Go in advanced mode when you post, if you can't see the paper clip I am talking about let me know you will have to change something in your CP an easy fix.



What kind of locomotive is it a diesel or a steam locomotive?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

In case you don't know this is a steam locomotive,










And this is a diesel locomotive,


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

it is a steam locomotive. i'm doing this from a phone. so i will have to fig something out for pics.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> it is a steam locomotive. i'm doing this from a phone. so i will have to fig something out for pics.



I can't help you doing it with a phone.
Are you sure it is a Lionel?

Is there a number on it, maybe the painter stuck with the Lionel number?

You don't know if Forward March is the group that helps Vets out?
This one, http://www.forwardmarchinc.com/tools.html

Though I don't think they were around in the 80's?
It would make sense that a former Vet might have painted it? Army themed.
They help Vets make the transition back to civilian life.
Maybe they helped one open a custom paint for trains shop?

Get us some pictures, and numbers if you see any, we need more info than what you asked.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

yes it is lionel. 671 is the # on the engine. is there anyway i could email you pics?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It says on their site that it was formed in 2013.
Much later then when your custom paint job was done.

Did he happen to put it in the original box after he painted it?
If so you should have the stock number on the box.
But I am guessing that you don't have the original box huh?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> yes it is lionel. 671 is the # on the engine. is there anyway i could email you pics?


Here it is then, does this look like it?
6/8/6 wheel arrangement? 6 on the front trucks / 8 in the middle/ 6 on the back truck?









Info here,

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_671_loco.htm

What do you need to know about it?
The painters name will be next to impossible to find.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

yes that us it. i have the engine and tender plus nine other cars. all have battery operated vehicles on them such as tanks and armored cars. they take AA's and all work. also all the the army men and accessories are hand painted. i was just hoping someone would know what it was possibly a cash value on it. my dad said the guy selling them had trains for different countries all during WWII era. guess he only did one of each


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> yes that us it. i have the engine and tender plus nine other cars. all have battery operated vehicles on them such as tanks and armored cars. they take AA's and all work. also all the the army men and accessories are hand painted. i was just hoping someone would know what it was possibly a cash value on it. my dad said the guy selling them had trains for different countries all during WWII era. guess he only did one of each


Do you have a computer?
Put some pictures up when you get the chance?

I would PM you my e mail but you need 10 posts to see PM's.
I would like to see them, maybe we here can put a value on them somehow, but that will be hard as it is all custom work.

Your dad still around? Maybe you could pry a little more info from him?
Do you know where he bought them? The state?
It will still be hard to try to find the painter, we might be able value the trains.
Then add the custom paint job to give you an approximate worth.

We could tell you a price on the locomotive and probably the cars I don't know about the vehicles on them and are the people lead? Plastic? Pewter?

We got to see what you have. (Good pictures) fuzzies are hard to see.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

yes he is still around


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

just talked to him around christmas. said he still had the guys business card but couldn't find it. all remembered was forward march and that he bought it in the 80's


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

View attachment Attachments_20141229.zip


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

What specific info about the train are you trying to find???


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

here are some pics if it worked


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

just wondering if anybody has seen anything like this before. what it might be worth


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I have read that locomotive (6-8-6) was produced by Lionel from 1946 to 1955......

http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=671


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Best bet is to do some hunting / searching on ebay for similar custom trains / cars.

Looks nice!

TJ


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

i have. can't find anything even remotely similar. that's why i came here hoping to find some answers here.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> i have. can't find anything even remotely similar. that's why i came here hoping to find some answers here.


And you won't find any like it, I think they are one of a kind like you said.
I will add nicely done.

Are you thinking of selling them?


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

thanks big ed. no interest in selling it at this time. prob sumthing i would pass down to my son someday. what do you think this train would be worth?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> thanks big ed. no interest in selling it at this time. prob sumthing i would pass down to my son someday. what do you think this train would be worth?


Are the flat cars metal?
Are the tanks and is that a half track? Are they metal? The artillery guns or are they machine guns? Metal?
The army men? metal?
The work caboose?

Can you see any numbers on the underside of the RR cars?

Can you post better detail pictures of it ALL?
You don't have to do it right away, I have no time right now, but tomorrow I will have some time.
Do you have any track to test the locomotive?
That would look nice on a shelf sitting on some track, or a mantle.

Answer the above the best you can and post some better individual pictures of each car with the load on it. 

What ever price I tell you won't be right but I can tell you what I think. 
Then everyone else can tell me I am wrong?:smokin:


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

all the men and vehicales are plastic. not sure about tender or caboose would have to check but i think all plastic. i know all the flat cars where originally red in color. you can still see some red on the bottoms. not sure about #'s would have to look for them also. i don't have any way to test the engine but don't see why it wouldn't work. my plan was to sum day build a shelf with track on it covered in plexiglass and maybe a mirror behind it. prob need around a 12' shelf to hold it.


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## higgsbosonman (Nov 17, 2014)

Oops


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

big ed said:


> Are the flat cars metal?
> Are the tanks and is that a half track? Are they metal? The artillery guns or are they machine guns? Metal?
> The army men? metal?
> The work caboose?
> ...





maantoline said:


> all the men and vehicales are plastic. not sure about tender or caboose would have to check but i think all plastic. i know all the flat cars where originally red in color. you can still see some red on the bottoms. not sure about #'s would have to look for them also. i don't have any way to test the engine but don't see why it wouldn't work. my plan was to sum day build a shelf with track on it covered in plexiglass and maybe a mirror behind it. prob need around a 12' shelf to hold it.


See the above in red.
Do you ( or Dad) know where or what state these were purchased?

Does the tender have a whistle? Look for a number most tenders were stamped with a number but I guess yours would be painted over. But with better pictures we may be able to put a number on it.

As hobo linked, that locomotive had 4 variety's, plus it could even be a Lionel 2020.
The price I have for the locomotive out of my guide book is listed with a tender. Then you have to take in account the paint job. That is from $100 to around $280. (without the paint job) So I am putting a low $150 on it, plus you don't know if it runs and you don't know the tender number. (that matters)

I found a site I want to show you, but only after you post better pictures. 
Take them out of the boxes. This site I found is only a few towns from me.
Ask Dad, Do you know where or what state these were purchased?
Just for curiosity does he remember how much he paid for them back then? Is he sure on the year 1980?

At a LOW estimate I put a $600 price tag on it. And like I say this is low.
I am calculating it like this,
671 (or 2020) locomotive and tender (whistle???) we don't know but I will say it is worth at least $150. Now ad $50 bucks per car with the loads on them that would be $450 for the 9 cars.
Total $600....THIS IS REAL LOW.....I think some would pay more per car.

It matters too if the flat cars are metal or plastic, as with the trucks (wheels). Some of the older flat cars that are metal bring a better buck.

I want to show you the site, but I am going to hold it hostage till you post some better pictures.

If you get some Gargraves track, they sell long lengths and some flex you could even make a spot to run them around the corner of a room for displaying. I don't mean actual running but just for displaying. 
You could add track side things like half blown up trees or by a few model kits of tanks and the like and make them look like they were blown up. Maybe an old stone house that has been shot up too?

That is it for now...............BETTER PICTURES PLEASE, OUT OF THE BOX?:dunno:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Got the pictures and will start with the locomotive and tender.


































Going with the site that Hobo linked I guess this is the 4th type they made, as it has the 2046w tender.

Made in 1952 in my book an excellent train 671RR would fetch $228. ( I don't know how they get their prices) but add the custom paint job $300? If is in excellent shape?
They both look in good shape from what I can see.

Others please give your opinions, what do you think?? 

671RR - (essentially a 681 turbine without Magnetraction). Due to material shortages caused by the Korean War, the 681 Magnetraction version from 1951 was eliminated from all locomotives in 1952. For this reason, Lionel re-ran the 671 and labelled it 671 RR (for re-run). Actual 671 RR locomotives were designated on the cab as either 671 RR or simply 671. Standard features of the 671 RR include: three position E-unit, smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast metal. The tender was the 2046W-50 Pennsylvania whistling tender.

Move on to the rolling stock cars with the loads in the next post.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This one is interesting, it looks to be a M-40 155mm Gun Motor Carriage.
Check out the picture below.
It uses the same chassis as the M-43 does but the M-43 has an 8-inch Howitzer mounted on it. The barrel is shorter.

I think the time frame the painter was going after is Korea, around 1951/52.










I see gears in there, what does it do? Does it use battery's?
This one car jumped in value from my original (low) estimate of $50 bucks.
Is there any markings on the motor carriage vehicle itself to see if we can determine who produced it?

This might be worth more then the flat car, depending on what model it is, see what you can find on it.

I will go on to the others, depending on the model and what it does I think this would easily bring more then a $100 at auction.
One cool train you have.:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This one almost looks like a Sherman tank?
They did make different styles of these.
The Turrets look different from the 2.

ANYONE ELSE? 

Does this tank do anything? 
Does it have any gears to it like the other above?

Any kind of markings on this one....the tank?

All the 6511 flatcars were made between 1953/56 and came with pipes.
There were 2 variations (A) came with die cast truck plates and the other (B) had stamped metal truck plates variation (A) is worth more.
They value in the book at (A) $70 in excellent shape (B) at $40.

With the paint job? Who knows, I think the loads would drive the price up on these cars.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Though different it almost looks like a M-36B1 Tank Destroyer?

Same questions for this, does the tank do anything?
Gears in it, a battery?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't know what this one is?
It looks like a Armored Security Vehicle?

Compare it to this M1117.
Not quite the same as the M1117 has windows in it.

Does this do anything?
The sand bags and drums and tools are a nice touch.
You see how it is hard to value what you have?
And if your right it is only one of a kind.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This is the site I want to show you, it is in a town not too far from me. It looks like internet selling only.

This Sherman tank on the flatbed is going for $85 bucks.









M977 A2 TRUCK. THE TRUCK IS HIGHLY DETAILED WITH OPENING DOORS AND SWING OUT MIRRORS. This has a wood bed installed, it is only $250 bucks!










Checkout some more?
http://gellertoytrains.com/mcart/index.cgi?ID=LAKHZT


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

everything takes 2 AA's and runs in a staight line. pretty quick to if i rember right. put batteries in one of the tanks years ago and ran it.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

the armored car is just a model does not take batteries or do anything


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> everything takes 2 AA's and runs in a staight line. pretty quick to if i rember right. put batteries in one of the tanks years ago and ran it.


I would like to find out more about the model vehicles.

I am willing to bet they are worth a lot more then the RR cars, combine the 2, priceless.

They move......do the gun turrets move too, by the battery?
Do the gun barrels move up and down?

Info....., more info, Ed's brain needs lots of details.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

all guns move up and down spin 360 all manual. gears only run tracks. i will have to look for a name or markings on the models.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

These 2 are cool too, definitely one of a kind!

$75 to a $100 each?

I don't know......ANYONE ELSE?
Maybe everyone has hangovers?

Like I said, if you put them on auction who knows what some would bid?:dunno:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I will add the rest just to get the pictures in here for you,









































I might have repeated one?

Edit, yes I repeated the second picture, the tank destroyer if that is what it is.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This one here......I want to look for this.
Post the letters and numbers that he assigned to it, I can't make them out.

I think maybe he used the real numbers that were on the vehicles back then.
I can't see them too well.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

my dad said he bought it at a TCA meet in york pa early 80's. not sure where the guy was from. he was prob in his 50's then so that would make him in his 80's now if even still alive. paid over $500 for the train back then. the guy had multiple trains all custom and all different. all military trains from WWII from different countries only one of each


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> my dad said he bought it at a TCA meet in york pa early 80's. not sure where the guy was from. he was prob in his 50's then so that would make him in his 80's now if even still alive. paid over $500 for the train back then. the guy had multiple trains all custom and all different. all military trains from WWII from different countries only one of each


That was a lot of bucks back then.
At $300 for the locomotive & tender and $80 bucks per car your over a $1000 right there.
At $300 for the locomotive & tender and $100 per car your up to $1200.
As a whole set offered for sale........who knows what it would bring if certain collectors sees it and has to have it and a bidding war starts.

I wonder why the man didn't have any jeeps on a flat car too?

I would still like to find out more about the motorized vehicles themselves.
I would be willing to bet there are collectors out there that would like them.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

i'll try and get you some more info on the vehicles. might have to wait till tomorrow though. thanks for all help


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

For around $15 bucks per 6' section you could get 2 of these.
Should be around $50 bucks with the end caps and shipping.
Though no covers, the train should not get that dusty and a can of air will clean them off nicely every once and a while.
Unless there is smoke in the house then you might need a Plexiglas cover.

http://www.gsds.com/index.html

Or you could get an oak board and cut some groves into it or just mount some track for displaying the train?

There are others but some get real pricey.

See what you can dig up on the models......when you get the chance.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I wonder if they are old Tamiya military kits, scale models from the 80's? They made a lot of 1/35 scale kits, they did make 1/48 scale too.

http://picclick.com/Tamiya-1-35-US-Tank-Destroyer-M10-Motorized-Plastic-251222197102.html

I think 1/35 would be too large for the O scale train, I can't find many older 1/48 sized.

Here is a motorized tank that is all together you could buy today,
https://www.frontlinehobbies.com.au/products/T30103

Back in the 80's I think they were all kits to assemble.

I am done searching for today.:smokin:


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

ok all the tanks and the m-40 are motorized and the model company name is Mitsuwa. the half track is not motorized i was wrong. the model company for the half track is Bandai. also the # on it is 5A704TD but that # is on every vehical. the armored car doesn't have any markings on it. thinking it is probably Bandai though.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

not a half track looks like a cargo carrier m30


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> ok all the tanks and the m-40 are motorized and the model company name is Mitsuwa. the half track is not motorized i was wrong. the model company for the half track is Bandai. also the # on it is 5A704TD but that # is on every vehical. the armored car doesn't have any markings on it. thinking it is probably Bandai though.


I am not familiar with those brands.
I never made too many Army models, matter of fact I never even made one Army model.

I made a few truck models, a complete Budweiser wagon with 8 horses model,:thumbsup:, a tug boat model, and a destroyer model, one sailing ship model and a few airplane models.
That is my extent of building plastic models out of a box.

So..........you going to build a shelf for it?


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

probably not anytime soon. don't really have any place to display it. it's a shame but it's gonna have to spend a few more years in its box. it will be safer there. i have a 3yr old that say it when i was taking pics and he wanted me to take it downstairs so he could play with it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> probably not anytime soon. don't really have any place to display it. it's a shame but it's gonna have to spend a few more years in its box. it will be safer there. i have a 3yr old that say it when i was taking pics and he wanted me to take it downstairs so he could play with it.


Well if you let him play with it, it would really look like it has been in a war.

Do yourself a favor. Don't keep them all together in the box like you have them.
You can keep them like that but separate them some. Get some acid free packing paper and wrap each one then put them in the box.
Google acid free packing paper they come in different thicknesses.
If you want we have a couple threads about boxes here, one is currently being discussed, you could get yourself a separate box for each if you want. I think they are about a buck or two a box, depending on what and where you get them. If you get separate boxes I would get an acid free tissue paper and wrap them first. Don't use newspaper as you risk the chance of the ink bleeding through to the trains. 
Though I have used newspaper and never had a problem, that is what "they" say might happen with newspaper.

I wonder why the painter didn't paint the bottoms? I guess he figured that no one would see them?

Or else it is just me? 
If I had painted them I would have done the underside too.:smokin:


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

will do thanks for the tip and all the research. i also sent a email with some pics to the TCA site. might be a long stretch but maybe the pics i sent will be seen by the right people. havn't heard anything but have my fingers crossed.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

maantoline said:


> will do thanks for the tip and all the research. i also sent a email with some pics to the TCA site. might be a long stretch but maybe the pics i sent will be seen by the right people. havn't heard anything but have my fingers crossed.


Yep, mine is just guessing.

And I guess no one here knows anything.:dunno:

I would say at $50 per car and $150 for the locomotive and tender is $600 a least.
And I think that is too low.
So.....I may be close?

Let us (me at least) know if you get an answer.


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## maantoline (Dec 28, 2014)

will do buddy thanks again


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