# couple of questions for the AF experts



## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

I have a 1953 AF 301 unit and last night I took it apart to give it a much needed oiling and new vasoline on the main gear....when I took the front mounting screws out i found that the bases that the screws go into were split open due to last owner putting larger screws in .....how would I fix this?

2nd. my 1947 4-6-2 was dropped by my son a few yrs back and busted the mounts for the flat plate that the tender bolts to. I have tried JB weld (that failed) and recently used Gorilla glue and that held for 3 months (just let go again a couple of days ago) ....should I just stick with the gorilla glue or is there another product out there that bonds better?


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

On the 301, I would try the JB weld on that/those screw post(s). Apply to the post and clamp it somehow to bond. If that is impossible, build up the post with a load of bond and after it is set, redrill new holes.

For the tender, what engine/tender is it -- production number?? Although they may not be readily seen, eBay offers a lot of parts. You might be able to find another tender chassis to replace the damaged one. Or ask the Forum group here - someone may have a spare that they will sell or trade.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Other people here have used a straw to build up damaged mounting posts. Simply cut a length of a plastic straw, set it in place and fill it with JB Weld or other bonding agent. After it sets, cut away the straw and drill new mounting holes. You should be able to find this tip using the search tool for the entire Forum, not just the S-Scale area.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> On the 301, I would try the JB weld on that/those screw post(s). Apply to the post and clamp it somehow to bond. If that is impossible, build up the post with a load of bond and after it is set, redrill new holes..


i will try this 





Nuttin But Flyer said:


> For the tender, what engine/tender is it -- production number?? Although they may not be readily seen, eBay offers a lot of parts. You might be able to find another tender chassis to replace the damaged one. Or ask the Forum group here - someone may have a spare that they will sell or trade.


it really isn't the tender in question it is the two posts that the flat plate is mounted to on the engine that the tender bolts to....there used to be two posts that the flat plate was mounted on and then they piened the posts to hold it there ....the posts broke off....I will get you a pic of it tonight when i get it in the cradle and start taking it apart to service it.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto on the straw method. We were talking about this recently, and it seemed like a 5-star idea to me. (Though I forget which member gets the due credit???)

TJ


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Here is the pic from the last time i fixed the 310 draw bar mount....you can see where I have to glue it to the chassis.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

What number engine is this?


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> What number engine is this?


it is a 1947 310 ...no steam and no chug chug  ....shure wish I could add steam to it


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

First things first...I have a 312 at home that should be very similar. I'll take a look tonight and see what type of drawbar is on it. I am pretty sure I now know what you mean, but seeing it helps a lot more.

As far as adding smoke, I suppose you could get another PRR Pacific that has smoke and simply drop your boiler shell on it. But IMHO, I believe in keeping things just the way they were produced rather than changing them -- it's just how I am. If you really want one of these to blow smoke, go find another PRR Pacific at a local train show or on eBay. Maybe one in need of some servicing that you can get fairly cheap and fix it. It is not too costly or difficult to repair these units. And you might find a decent one for $35-$40 -- plus you are adding to your collection and getting some repair experience at the same time. And your wife, if you're married, won't have to wonder where you are or what trouble you're getting into. And you can drink beer while you are doing it.

So many benefits to having model railroading as a hobby.....


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

midlifekrisiz said:


> ...you can see where I have to glue it to the chassis.


I think I'd drill and either tap a #00 or glue in a piece of copper wire.


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## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

midlifekrisiz,
Your 310 is called a K5 and is similar to 312, 313, 314, 315, and 316's. Mine are all packed while I start my new layout, so I can't tell you for sure when, but somewhere in that series I believe they stopped using a post to peen over to hold the drawbar. After that they were drilled and tapped for screws to hold the drawbar.
I think you could file the post flat, drill it out and tap it, add a couple of screws and you would have a permanent fix. I think they are probably like a 10-32 size but others can correct me if I am wrong.

Good luck,
Aflyer


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Ditto on the straw method. We were talking about this recently, and it seemed like a 5-star idea to me. (Though I forget which member gets the due credit???)
> 
> TJ


Not to pat myself on the back but I believe it was I.And I got the idea from Don Roder, owner of GarGraves Trackage.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You guys use vasoline on the gears?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

big ed said:


> You guys use vasoline on the gears?


yep....


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Miniscule amount -- only enough to coat the gears -- no more.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

My loco's range in age from 40 to 60 years old and never used any grease on them, except the worm drive gear on my GP-20 with no appreciable wear. OFC, my equipment is all Lionel but shouldn't make any difference. All had been stored for more than 30 years, partially in a damp basement and when pulled out it ran just like the day they were put away. 

Carl


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Aflyer said:


> midlifekrisiz,
> I think you could file the post flat, drill it out and tap it, add a couple of screws and you would have a permanent fix. I think they are probably like a 10-32 size but others can correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Good luck,
> Aflyer


Well I fliped it over and had a good look at the area that you said to file down, drill and tap and I do not want to take the chance of busting the cast apart....the mount area isn't as wide as the bar that is supposed to be attached to it and I don't see how one would even drill that small area out let alone tap it. I think I will stick with the Gorrilla glue and when it lets go do it again.

if someone has a better sollution then please chime in.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

midlife -- I apologize, I failed to look at my 312 as promised. Will try to do so tonight and get back to you. No excuse.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I would drill it out, make some pins for it, and then JB Weld it all in place. Just make sure the area is free of oils, etc. I find it hard to believe the JB Weld failed, (not saying you're lying), just can't figure out what happened._ had an engine with the same problem, and I just used JB Weld on the pin, going into the draw bar mount on the chassis and so far, nothing bad has happened. The repair was made years ago..PortLines has the pins, pt# S218. They mount the "draw bar strap" to the rear of the cab................._


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## ChopperCharles (Jan 3, 2012)

Okay, for AF plastic boiler shells, the best way to repair them is this:

Don't. 

Instead, get a drill bit and a longer screw. Drill the hole deeper, and use the screw to tap in threads further down the hole. Works like a charm, and all you need is a few cents worth of screws from the hardware store. Unless you use a plastic welder, nothing is going to repair split bosses. Just drill and tap threads in further down the hole, there's actually quite a lot of depth there to work with.

Charles.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

ChopperCharles said:


> Okay, for AF plastic boiler shells, the best way to repair them is this:
> 
> Don't.
> 
> ...


Charles;
thanks for the tip about the plastic (might be able to use that on the 301 unit where the screws busted the mounts) but the 310 is a cast unit and there is very little room for mistakes drilling the holes to mount the bar that the tender mounts to on the unit.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Mid Life, use the JB Weld and straw trick. Works every time.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

flyernut said:


> Mid Life, use the JB Weld and straw trick. Works every time.


will do FN as I do not think there is enough depth left to do any drilling at the front of that unit.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Here is a photo of my #312 which I'm sure is the same as yours....

Mine looks like two pins were inserted to hold the bracket in place, but I cannot be sure of that.

I agree there is little room for error, but I think drilling new holes is the correct fix. You will have to use a very small, precise drill bit size to do so and I would recommend you hand drill them, not power drill them. Perhaps someone at your local hobby or repair shop can do it for you. Then I would use new screws to fasten it so that it is removeable or repairable in the future.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Here is a photo of my #312 which I'm sure is the same as yours....
> 
> Mine looks like two pins were inserted to hold the bracket in place, but I cannot be sure of that.
> 
> I agree there is little room for error, but I think drilling new holes is the correct fix. You will have to use a very small, precise drill bit size to do so and I would recommend you hand drill them, not power drill them. Perhaps someone at your local hobby or repair shop can do it for you. Then I would use new screws to fasten it so that it is removeable or repairable in the future.


that is exactly the same ....well now that I know that it is 2 pins this should make things esier....as for drilling them out I have a friend that is very good with this kind of thing so I guess I will shoot him some money and get this fixed once and for all.....thanks again to all of you ...will post an update after it is done. :thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I would not "just drill them out"....the pins appear to have heads on them. I would first try to grind the heads off to remove the bracket, if still attached. If it is not, then I guess you can drill away to remove the remnants of the pins. You probably have one clean shot at this, so be sure to move slowly and carefully. Wish you lotsa luck and look forward to the result.


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## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

midlifekrisiz,
The solution may be a combination of our suggestions. How about after your friend drills them out use small self tapping screws? 
Get the screws first and drill the hole to the size for that screw.
I think the casting should be happy with the self taping screws.
Aflyer


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Aflyer said:


> midlifekrisiz,
> The solution may be a combination of our suggestions. How about after your friend drills them out use small self tapping screws?
> Get the screws first and drill the hole to the size for that screw.
> I think the casting should be happy with the self taping screws.
> Aflyer


i think this is the best solution as well.
will let you guys know how it works out.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Those pins are actually push pins, with serrations on the sides, much like the push pins used to hold a body on a chassis. I would try prying them out first before you do any drilling. Soak them a little with PB Blaster, and try and wedge a small, thin screwdriver blade under one of them. You might get lucky. I have in the past.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

flyernut said:


> Those pins are actually push pins, with serrations on the sides, much like the push pins used to hold a body on a chassis. I would try prying them out first before you do any drilling. Soak them a little with PB Blaster, and try and wedge a small, thin screwdriver blade under one of them. You might get lucky. I have in the past.


there are no heads left on the pins but now that I know what they are I should be able to get them out.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Make any progress on removing the old pins and getting the bracket installed?


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Make any progress on removing the old pins and getting the bracket installed?


sorry yes...i scrapped the metal down and still no sign of the remainders of the pin so I am guessing this is one of the ones that had the pins as part of the casting/???
i ended up using jb weld again and when it was all dry and cured attached the tender and she ran not too bad on the track but I don't understand why the 301 still runs better on the track than the 310 does......310 had lots of troubles not pulling anything around....lots of stopping and not picking up power from the track even though pick up wheels are clean and track is clean and lots of power leads going here and there to the track.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

still waiting for the fellow that offered me the tools to fix the couplers to get back to me on how much it is going to be to ship them to me so that is on hold.


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