# Grand plans



## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

Hi all,

It's been a few years since I posted my original idea for my layout(http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=11351). I never really got past putting 1 helix into place. 

Originally my planned space was 240" x 144", this has now increased to 240" x 228".

I have torn down the old bench work and have decided to use L girders for the new bench work. These will be made up in sections and attached together(pics to follow). My thinking here is to try allow for an easier change of different parts of the layout, if/when I need to.

To maximize the space I've come up with this plan(most corners will be curved, didn't have the patience to work it out in scarm):

















Here is the list of what I'd like in the new layout:

2 Stations
Intermodal Yard
Switching Yard
A Mountain
3 Main Lines

I've been thinking that I may need to compromise on the list somewhere so currently I have no track plan.

I am hoping for advice/help in track planning, suggestions are welcome.


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

*L girder sections finished*

As promised here are some pics of progress with new bench-work.





































I've just laid the sheets on top for the moment to try get a sense of the space. None of the L girder sections are attached together yet, just got the last one finished tonight. 

Need to decide if I should use 4x1 or 3x1 for the joists, cost wise it would be cheaper to use 3x1. Not sure what the benefit of using 4x1 would be? :dunno:


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I would think 1x3s would be enough, that's what I used. Nice bench work there.
Looks like it will be a very nice layout. Drill some holes in the joist for your wiring before laying plywood down. It's easier to do now than later.

Magic


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

Magic said:


> I would think 1x3s would be enough, that's what I used. Nice bench work there.
> Looks like it will be a very nice layout. Drill some holes in the joist for your wiring before laying plywood down. It's easier to do now than later.
> 
> Magic


Hi Magic,

Thanks, here's the plan:

Drill minimum 3 holes in each joist
Position joists 16" apart
Use risers to lay the roadbed on

Any idea on the maximum height of a riser attached to 3x1?

Damien.


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

*Scale*

For those who don't know I will be using OO gauge, mostly Hornby track, also some Peco points and slips.

I'm waiting on a couple of linear servos to arrive, going to try these as they cost less than point motors(although when factoring in electronics should work out fairly similar).


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## ED-RRR (Jun 4, 2015)

*Layout Table Built*



irishfreight said:


> For those who don't know I will be using OO gauge, mostly Hornby track, also some Peco points and slips..


So your model train layout will be built to a United Kingdom railway system..
[OO] Scale = 1/76 scale.. 
[HO] Scale = 1/87 scale..

(#1)
You have completed the hardest part about building a model train layout..
You now have an "excellent" completed layout surface maximizing all the available space in the room.. 

LooK @ --> (#1A) Other Layout
This is how most single level layouts look..









LooK @ --> (#1B) My Layout
I have cut out below the leveled track and extended the front face allowing me to build a 3D gorge..
I also went up to build a rocky cliff..









(#2)
Looking at your actual pictures you have height limitations due to the (x2) side walls and end window..
-BUT-
You also have (x1) big advantage modelling the United Kingdom railway system..
There are many different viaducts used..
A viaduct is a bridge composed of several small spans for crossing a "valley" -OR- a "gorge". 
LooK @ --> (#2) Viaduct
Drop down a section of your layout to have a 3D effect..









(#3)
LooK @ --> (#3A) Viaduct
This is a very advanced built viaduct..









LooK @ --> (#3B) Your Layout.jpg
Here is a sample how it would look like on your layout..
This will have a huge visual effect when entering the room..
This layout outcrop is also an excellent location to raise "up" some scenery only up to the window sill height..
I zoomed in your (x1) picture by the window where your saw is located..
If the height is allowed, this would be an excellent location to separate your layout by adding "tunnels"..








(#4)
LooK @ --> (#4) Your Layout
You are showing a "Lift Out Hatch"..
Sorry, but I would highly recommend "NOT" using a "Lift Out Hatch" at this location..
It might not be worth all the "trouble".... (Absolutely your choice 100%).. 
Must be very accurately built to join the (x2) layout tables.. (+/- .015" track alignments) (+/- .015" track heights)..
Special track wiring connections.. 
Very limited or no scenery..
If you ever have visitors coming to see your layout in "action", everyone must have to crawl in.. 
You also have plenty of room to have reverse loops..











irishfreight said:


> I've just laid the sheets on top for the moment to try get a sense of the space.
> None of the L girder sections are attached together yet, just got the last one finished tonight..


(#5)
LooK @ --> (#5) Your Layout







You are presently at the ideal "perfect" time to plan your track layout..
I built my layout using "L" girder sections..
When I built in my "gorge", I had to do "many" modifications "under" the layout table to modifying the "L" girder sections..
Do not do the same mistake I did..

Only friendly suggestions.... (Absolutely your choice 100%).. 
At this time, "Do Not" mount any "L" girder sections..
As per your pictures leave "all" the wood sheets placed flat onto the tables.. 
Place "all" the wood sheets into their required locations and only "temporarily" screw down with "limited" number of wood screws..
......


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Looks like you've already started, but for your joists, I would recommend making L girders. Mount your 1x3's as you have done. Take a 1x4 and rip it in half into two 1x2's. Attach those in the center of your joists to make a T shape, or do it at the sides to make an L shape. This gives your joists strength and resistance to flexing / warping in both directions.

And since you've already made your benchwork, it's probably too late, but I generally advise people to have a pretty firm track plan before they start building benchwork, otherwise you limit yourself to the dimensions of your benchwork.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I am rather surprised at ED-RRR's suggestion to avoid
a lift out section for access to the inner layout areas. He
usually has a very well thought out highly technical
and scholarly post. 

I have a room size layout with a inner area where the
controls are located. Because of a complicated turnout and
track construction I could not use a 'removable' bridge and
I have to crawl under. This, I can tell you, becomes 
'old' the first day. 

A hinged 'bridge' is, to me, an ideal way to gain access
to your layout. But, be sure to remember to use
electrically isolated sections of every track approaching
the 'bridge'. Any time the bridge is out, these sections
would be electrically dead to protect your locos from
crashing to the floor.

Don


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

*Joists*

Thanks for the suggestions guys, has got me thinking(again)... hwell:

I get the impression that some of ye think I will be using full boards on top, this is not correct. I will be placing joists on top of the L-Girder tables to get the desired shape and then just cutting out roadbed sections that will be placed on risers. There's a great example of this here: Link


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

irishfreight said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys, has got me thinking(again)... hwell:
> 
> I get the impression that some of ye think I will be using full boards on top, this is not correct. I will be placing joists on top of the L-Girder tables to get the desired shape and then just cutting out roadbed sections that will be placed on risers. There's a great example of this here: Link


I see what you're planning. In my opinion, that's highly over-engineered. While it's not wrong -- pretty much nothing in this hobby is -- it uses a lot more material, and therefore costs a lot more, than necessary.


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

CTValleyRR said:


> I see what you're planning. In my opinion, that's highly over-engineered. While it's not wrong -- pretty much nothing in this hobby is -- it uses a lot more material, and therefore costs a lot more, than necessary.


I know it's a bit more involved and a small added cost but it should allow for greater flexibility .

Getting back to work on it now, will update soon with progress.


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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

While its too late now, I would also suggest never to build the benchwork before you have a track plan. It would be sad if you spent hours and lots of $$ only to find out that if you had made one section 2" wider or put a peninsula coming from the other side of the room you could have done some really cool things.

I am assuming since this is OO this will be a UK or European based design?


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

dave1905 said:


> While its too late now, I would also suggest never to build the benchwork before you have a track plan. It would be sad if you spent hours and lots of $$ only to find out that if you had made one section 2" wider or put a peninsula coming from the other side of the room you could have done some really cool things.
> 
> I am assuming since this is OO this will be a UK or European based design?


Hi,

I know that most people like to have a track plan before starting, I would like it too. Unfortunately I can't afford to have someone design a layout for me(open to free offers ) and every time I try to do it myself it ends up not looking right and I delete it and start over. So my thinking was to make the most of the space and see what will fit. Its a reason why I choose to use L-Girder as it should make making changes easier should I need to.

I'm actually in Ireland and haven't decided whether to do an Irish or other design, I would like to include a viaduct, this one always springs to mind.


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

So here's the latest update...

Managed to get most of the left sides joists in place, it is time consuming(cutting then drilling then fixing in place). Hopefully the rest go quicker.










For most of the corners I'd like to curve then, I know they should fan out but how to create the curve correctly? Has anyone got any tips on how its done? Thinking of a large piece of cardboard and a piece of string and a pencil. :dunno:


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## ED-RRR (Jun 4, 2015)

*"Lift Out Hatch"..*



DonR said:


> I am rather surprised at ED-RRR's suggestion to avoid
> a lift out section for access to the inner layout areas. He
> usually has a very well thought out highly technical
> and scholarly post...Don


[DonR]
Thank you for your reply..
I did not know what I was thinking..
I was de-railed and you put me back on track..

[irishfreight] 
Sorry, but I will now recend on what I had previously stated..
Instead of telling you what "not" to do, I should instead be helping you..
This is your layout and no-one including myself should advice you on what "not" to do..

I have (x2) different options for your lift out section..
Having (x2) tracks cross over this "open" section
will also vastly "increase" your layout track operations..

(#1) Lift Up Section
(#2) Swing Gate

[irishfreight] 
You will absolutely love this example.. 
Viaduct Bridge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3OMyrkRMXI

=============================================

This is a unique "different" subject..
I started a "new" thread to share this information with others..
--> Layout Design Forum: 
--> Move A Track Section (Temporarily).. 
......


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## ED-RRR (Jun 4, 2015)

*Track Radius Layout*

(#1)
Before building the layout structure frame work..
It is "totally" impossible to "design" a track layout "not" knowing any "sizes" -OR- "limitations" for the area available !!

(#2)
You are presently building an excellent layout using the "maximum" available "reachable" space..

(#3)
I always knew that you were going the "L" girder layout building structure..
It is "not" over engineered because this is how us "old" farts built our layouts many years ago..
It allows for unlimited flexibility and modifications..

(#4)
I never assumed that you were going to have a (x1) level layout..
But you are very limited from going "up" because of the (x2) side walls and back wall window heights..

(#5)
"Like I had previously stated"..
Only "Temporarily" mount "all" the sheets "Flat" down onto your "L" girder system..
This will make layout designing much "easier" and more "realistic".. 
"Hornby" OO/HO and "Peco" OO/HO are manufactured at the "same" scale/standard..
Peco has "printable" template’s..
http://www.peco-uk.com/
http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=tempc75 (Track Code 75)
Print out "each" switch used at the "Correct" scale and cut out the actual printed track..
Mark out the "Center Line" of each switch track..
Use masking tape to temporarily mark out "Center Line" of each "Main Line".. 
Use masking tape to temporarily locate each switch track location..

LooK:
Using "curved" turnouts on your layout will also be very "advantages" , when having so many "corners" on your layout.. 
I am not familiar with "Irish" train track, but it sure looks like that "all" of track switches are curved.. 

Warning:
Do "not" place any "turning" tracks too close to the layout edges..
You do "Not" want a de-railed locomotive and rolling stock to fall to the floor..



irishfreight said:


> For most of the corners I'd like to curve then, I know they should fan out but how to create the curve correctly?
> Has anyone got any tips on how its done? Thinking of a large piece of cardboard and a piece of string and a pencil.... :dunno:


You will require a beam compass for an "accurate" radius layout/measurement !!









I am presently (Working) = (T.B.A.) on a "New Thread" to build a "simple" Beam Compass.. 

Go To:
Layout Design Forum: 
--> Build a Beam Track Radius Compass..
......


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

*Back to the layout*

It's been a while since I've had the time to get back to the layout. I've made a list of the items I would like to have:

Intermodal shipyard
Mountain
Large station
Couple of smaller stations
Some industries
Yard

My layout plan, so far:

























Open to suggestions.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

They all look good.

One caution: Make certain that you
can 'fit' in any 'aisle' you build. I have
one that I can move into sideways and
that can be awkward. Also my shirt touches
buildings and scenery. Moves it.

Don


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

it looks like a great start .. as other have mentioned, you can put down templates, or even some sectional track, to get an idea of how it will work, and do any adjustments as required ..
with sectional and 'flat' sheets , you can even run some trains before doing the L girder and final roadbed


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## irishfreight (Mar 13, 2012)

DonR said:


> They all look good.
> 
> One caution: Make certain that you
> can 'fit' in any 'aisle' you build. I have
> ...


All aisles are a minimum of 30", hope this is enough


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

irishfreight said:


> All aisles are a minimum of 30", hope this is enough


You can add short, clear Plexiglas sides along the edges of your layout to protect trains and scenery from accidental bumps. Mine only stick up 2" above the table. That is enough to catch errant trains and still let you look over the Plexiglas sides to see your layout.


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