# My project - HO hopefully with O



## novice

Comments and advise very welcome and needed LOL.

I started my benchwork today (finally) by taking my old 4x8 table and ripping it into 2 tables.

I know it's not much, but between reading and learning and figuring out track problems this is quite an accomplishment for me.

My goal is to build a O layout as the main line and an HO layout above it in the back on a mountain top. Thoughts? 

I may have messed up the width measurements to achieve this and if so, perhaps I can use the right or left sides for the HO mountain top?

Both are 32" high and believe it or not they are level. This alone was quite a feat for me :laugh:

The thin table against the wall is 30" x 92" and the wide table is 42" x 64"

I still have at least one more table to build (on the left side to make a full horseshoe) but I ran out of wood. Maybe tomorrow or next weekend. I may add a little more to the wide table (about 42" x 36") since i have the room.

I put some very thin wall coating on them but I haven't taken pictures of it yet. I'll post that later.

I still need to add the supports and under table for stock, parts and tools which I hope I will finish tomorrow.

For now this is what I have.

















Thoughts?


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## tankist

it doesn't look like very stable construction. i would add some sort of cross-bracing fo the legs


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## novice

Thanks Tankist - adding that tomorrow when I get more wood along with a lower shelf for stuff.


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## Big Ed

novice said:


> Thanks Tankist - adding that tomorrow when I get more wood along with a lower shelf for stuff.












I would like to try the same thing as you.
Maybe N would work better in the small space you are dealing with.
But I imagine you already have the HO?

Check out this site...they did it. Put S in it too.
But look at the dimensions of their layout.


http://www.dunhamstudios.com/cititour.htm


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## novice

Thanks Big Ed - a bit larger than my area LOL - but I certainly get some ideas from that.

I think I'm gonna need some help from the experts here in laying out track 

I'm finishing up the tables this afternoon and will post more pictures.

Don't worry tankist, they are going to be stable - I swear


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## novice

*Latest Update*

Worked on the last table today and sturdied up the under tables.

Left side - 30" wide









Center - 42" deep









Right side - 37" wide









I still have a few cross braces to add but I'm going to wait until I decide on the table top material.

Thoughts?

I think I'm gonna need some help laying out my track. I think I've taken on more than I am capable


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## concretepumper

Lookin good! Maybe some 45 degree gussets on those legs here and there will make it solid. I see you are using the flat table building method. I did the same. Think ahead now for lakes or streams you might want. Much easier to jig saw holes now. Also any rises in elevation would be easy now. I added both after laying track and wish I had thought ahead.

What is the top deck material?


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## novice

Thanks for the heads up CP (concretpumper)

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the top yet.

My issues are that I'm not very good with a jig saw so I don't think I want to do wood cut outs.

Also, I want to try to make the top be able to be broken down, boxed and stored if need be.

I have some foam insulation I was considering, and also not sure what it's called but very thin veneer like wall cover (like you put in a bathroom) which is currently on top of the 2 tables.

I'm kinda going back and forth at the moment. 

Also, I still need to bolt the table together - I'm going to put the whole thing on wheels so I can pull it away from the back wall and work on the scenery in back since the middle and corner sections are bit out of my reach.

I have a layout in my mind, but I think it might be to advanced for me; Here's a quasi picture of what's in my mind: (the roads would be the tracks, the top/mtn is my HO and the lower level is the O. I have buildings and stuff for O but only track and trains for the HO as of yet) 










Really stuck on the table top part.


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## novice

Some new pics with the layout fixed:

















Temporary raised track to fit it all in


















More to come soon


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## O-boy

Hey Novice,

Looking good so far. I like your concept on using two different scales. I have some HO scale engines and cars left and often thought about combining the HO scale stuff with my O gauge trains so I'm looking forward to seeing how your layout progresses.

Just one thing to consider when building and upper level on a solid flat top layout is the weight factor. If you decide not to use the cookie cutter option and use a jigsaw then foam is a good option. I addition to the foam supports there are people who make foam board in sizes from 8"X12" to 40"x60". It's kinda pricey for the larger sheets but come in thicknesses up to 1/2". This might work for the flat suface for the upper level and cut down on weight. The stuff will hold HO sectional track and track nails very nicely.

Here is just one online option just for and example only.
http://www.foamboardsource.com/foam-board--foam-board-with-memory--1-2--foam-board-with-memory.html

Happy building on your layout :thumbsup:


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## novice

Thanks for the tips O-boy.

I haven't settled on how to build the mtns yet. I really like the tutorials NIMT did in the forums, but I am concerned with the weight as I only have the foam insulation as a sub-board.

I can add some cross beams to the table itself to strenghten the sub-board if needed and go with NIMTs tutorials - darn they look real good and CP is doing them justice.

I also have a lot of foam I can use to sculpt the mtns out, but I think NIMTs way is best.

Right now, I'm putting wheels on all 3 tables. Just finished with one tonight, and it is perhaps the best thing I've done so far - makes it very easy to get to the hard to reach places by pulling out the table and crawling through the undertable.


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## novice

Captain - there be TRAINS here 

Thanks to everyone for all their help, my O trains have begun their route around the track!

The J & J Line is pulling 7 cars - go Conrail LOL.
I've got the first leg of O trains up and running - a bit slow at the curves, but I think that is the quality of the track - I'll work on that over the next few days.

I'm going to let this run for a day or two while start working in the 4 switches.

Heck I can't believe these are actually working...

Oh, notice the wheels at the bottom of the tables - best thing I've done so far so I can get to the back of the layout by sliding the whole thing forward. Ingenious LOL

Here are some pics for those interested:


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## sstlaure

Looking good......May I suggest you add a thin strip of lexan or plexiglass along the edges where the trains get close so they don't end up on the floor? I had a couple "sorry daddy" moments when I was starting and had to watch a 1 day old engine crash to the cement from 4 feet. (348 scale foot crash haha) You only need something sticking a couple inches above the top surface to serve as a deflector.


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## novice

Thanks Scott - yes, I'm going to put a ridge around the front to protect from derailing. Just haven't gotten there yet lol


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## novice

*Updated Pics O Layout with riser*

Well I finally figured out what the plastic joiners I have are for... Duh!

Evidently, they're for my switches. Now I know why my switches weren't working LOL.

Hopefully, I'll get the switches laid tomorrow with a spur and if I can fit it a siding for the Main O layout.


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## novice

Some updated pics with the risers almost all in place for the O layout:

I made my own risers from foam sheets using a hot wire cutter. Works great for the bends.

Still have a few pieces to cut.









I put tape on the cut sides to minimize foam dirt









Still need to add the edging trim for protection - maybe this weekend


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## tjcruiser

Nice job on the risers ... the top looks smooth!!!

Are those all individual pieces, or are many of them cut "half notch" style from one piece of foam so that you can bend one long/floppy zig-zag foam piece? Pretty clever, if you did that ... that's what one gets when they buy the precut Woodland Scenics risers.

Just out of curiosity, why are you using the foil-faced insulation foam for some of your layout surface? Do be mindful that it'll be likely harder to glue things down to that foil surface.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

Why did you put all of the track on risers all the way around?
Instead of a gradual grade?


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## novice

Thanks for the replies guys...

*TJ* - they are not individual pieces but several strips cut up. Here's what I did...

I have a woodland scenics kit I was going to use for a practice scenery setup and inside were 3 risers. The light bulb went off and...

I bought an 8x4' x 2" thick sheet of foam, cut it in half (4x4) used my large level which happens to be about 2" wide and cut strips 2" x 4' which I cut half of them in half to make the curves. This part was very messy - afterwards I put painters tape on the cut sides to keep the little foam balls from going all over the house - worked like a charm 

If my hand was steadier, I would have used the hot wire cutter to cut the strips but alas, I tremble when I try to do detail work.

I left a few of them as you can see 2" x 4' for the long straight runs.

These are currently held in place with pins.

I use my hot wire to cut out short strips in the foam on both sides and voila! It bends and shapes and saved myself a ton of money. Those WS risers are about $5 each for 2" x 3' - The sheet I bought cost $10.00 and I get 24 2" x 4' risers out of half a sheet and still have a sheet for spares or other things - $0.21 each LOL.

The foil faced was all they had when I went to the store. When I went back they had the pink. Before I start applying the scenery (using NIMT's method for the outside rail) I'll rip up the covering in sheets.

*Big Ed* - I did what was easiest for me - I couldn't get the incline correct for a slow incline (been having track and train problems and the incline was complicating it for me), but since I have so much foam I can still do that before I begin the scenery. I really want to create an incline along the right side (see window) of the layout going towards the wall - that's where the mountain will be that the HO will run around. I may not however get there.

Also having the risers will allow me to create the valleys, streams etc without having to cut wood etc. I'm not very good with a saw or free hand drawing so I decided to go with my instinct.

More pics to come now that the switches are working. I'll be adding some buildings for placement in the layout as well as building the HO level next so I can see how high I have to make the mountain and my trestle bridge which I'm hoping to make myself out of dowling and balsa strips.

It's in large part to all of you that I've even gotten this far - many thanks to everyone for their guidance and replies as well the pics of everyones layouts for giving me ideas.

This is a fabulous community.


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## tjcruiser

Excellent job on the riser cuts ... nothing wrong with getting a WS-like product for a tiny fraction of the cost!

TJ


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## novice

Thanks TJ - they don't look as good close up but hey they work and that's what matter right? 

You're probably seeing the WS riser in front - I didn't cut that one LOL.


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## novice

*Update for Feb 20*

Hopefully this update will show where I'm going with the lower layout and mtns.

I really suck at this, but it is coming along slowly...

I received some flex track for the HO and decided to narrow the upper level using this track for the half circle turn arounds. I have it measured at 36" instead of the original 44" and I think I might be able to go a bit narrower also.

I ordered another piece so I won't start working on the upper level till I resolve the size of the run.

For the Mail O line - so far this weekend:
I've been gluing some of the models I never glued before
Built the mtn Plateau risers
Added some structures for place holders
Buried the switch wires
Layed out some road place holders as well as the waterfall, streams and 2 lake placeholders:











































Can anyone think of any "gotchas" before I start working on the lower level contours?


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## Big Ed

I think the risers like that all the way around look...unnatural?
Are you going to keep all the buildings on the boxes?

If you want more carving space why don't you take the risers away and add another foam board to the top. Another 2" would let you carve more.

Then work on getting the risers to climb a gradual grade around where you want it. If you want a grade.
Without a grade you don't need the risers at all.

If you do this do it before the HO goes on.


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## novice

Thanks Big Ed for the guidance...

I understand exactly what you are suggesting, I think.

Adding 2" to the whole layout however would cost another $30 -the risers cost me $10 - I'll fill in around the risers with drywall mud and screen (which I have).

I just thought having the risers would make it easier for me to carve out landscape and terrain contours like hills, lakes and streams. Where the streams and lakes are there are cross beams under the foam which I didn't want to cut so instead I went up.

The boxes are there for placeholders for height and location of buildings - I have them there so I can start adding the contours to the land. They'll be removed soon enough.

What you're probably not seeing - and perhaps it's my noviceness but around the front of the layout will be a facade, between the facade and the riser will be a gully - some of it with water, some with rock (quarry) and some as a drainage ditch.

I also found spots for 2 spurs today which I'm going to add later.


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## Big Ed

novice said:


> Thanks Big Ed for the guidance...
> 
> I understand exactly what you are suggesting, I think.
> 
> Adding 2" to the whole layout however would cost another $30 -the risers cost me $10 - I'll fill in around the risers with drywall mud and screen (which I have).
> 
> I just thought having the risers would make it easier for me to carve out landscape and terrain contours like hills, lakes and streams. Where the streams and lakes are there are cross beams under the foam which I didn't want to cut so instead I went up.
> 
> The boxes are there for placeholders for height and location of buildings - I have them there so I can start adding the contours to the land. They'll be removed soon enough.
> 
> What you're probably not seeing - and perhaps it's my noviceness but around the front of the layout will be a facade, between the facade and the riser will be a gully - some of it with water, some with rock (quarry) and some as a drainage ditch.
> 
> I also found spots for 2 spurs today which I'm going to add later.



OK as long as you have a plan.

I know firsthand that some things don't look right until they are done.

And I never worked with foam board as a base yet either.

I could see using risers that climb gradually to the window side then come back down, to me it doesn't look right putting risers all around at the same height.

But you have a plan and it is your Rail road..I will stay tuned.
Maybe I will learn something for when I finally get to work with foam board.:thumbsup:
Continue please.


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## novice

Big ed - I really appreciate all your input so please don't stop.

People like you and the others have gotten me this far, and I take every ounce of criticism, suggestions and guidance to thought.

I have no idea whether my plan will work, I certainly hope so LOL.

I added some mud today to get a better view and idea of the end product will look like, I'll post once the final mud layer is down.

I hope I'm not screwing this up LOL


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## novice

Well thanks to Big ed - I'm removing the risers - I hate you big ed - j/k.

I layed some mud down to see how it was going to look and work out, and big ed is right - the risers first off make more work than I want to undertake, and are not needed.

I got some more foam last night and I'll lay that down hopefully today with more pics to come.

Thanks big ed - for your input - and making my life miserable  just kidding - you're probably saving me from a crappy looking set up!


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## Big Ed

novice said:


> Well thanks to Big ed - I'm removing the risers - I hate you big ed - j/k.
> 
> I layed some mud down to see how it was going to look and work out, and big ed is right - the risers first off make more work than I want to undertake, and are not needed.
> 
> I got some more foam last night and I'll lay that down hopefully today with more pics to come.
> 
> Thanks big ed - for your input - and making my life miserable  just kidding - you're probably saving me from a crappy looking set up!



Spend some time with the risers and make your grade where you want it. They will work out nice with a grade. 

If your going to carve I still say get some more foam board.
Try to make deals on damaged board and piece it in.
When your done you won't see the piecework.

Like I said I never worked with foam,yet.
But I have been taking notes here.

edit,

I see you got more board.hwell:


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## novice

Thought I'd post a few pics of what I'm working with in loco's and rolling stock:

My O set up (so far, another loco on the way):
My original set up - Great Plains Express - GP 9, 8757 Loco:

































My latest acquisitions:

































My HO Sets (so far, more on the way):
The DeWitt is my favorite HO train set...

































I still have a complete HO set that I haven't taken out of the box or unwrapped yet.

Bachman Thunder Bolt:









My first pre-war:

















My first steam loco:









I have another steam loco and tender on the way as well as a bunch of ho stuff. 

More pics to come...


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## gunrunnerjohn

I've seen some of those cars before!


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## novice

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I've seen some of those cars before!


LOL - yes, from a most generous benefactor


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## T-Man

Seeing what you have gives me a better perspective. You have a nice old Scout not worth too much, a dealer may laugh at you if you bring it for service or they will just take your money. In the 50's, kids serviced their own. Unless you break something, you should be able to care for them.

The table looks great I appreciate the early under construction peek I am looking forwaard to your progress.

Try not to get discouraged and just have fun. Some thing may take time and a little patience goes a long way.


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## novice

T-Man said:


> You have a nice old Scout not worth too much, a dealer may laugh at you if you bring it for service or they will just take your money.


Why would they laugh at me? Because it's easy to service?

I got the steamer for what I consider to be a fair price - $30 have another one coming with a tender I got for $25. That's fair to me, since many of the steamers I've found were a lot more than that.

IMO, it's only easy if you've done it before, have the instructions or have some one show you.

For someone who always has screws left over when putting something back together that they've taken apart... It ain't easy LOL

I'm kinda rethinking my layout - not sure if I'm going to do both the O and the HO. I'm having fun with the O, but the area is small.


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## tjcruiser

Nov,

A little over a year ago, I stared my first Scout in the face, with nervous little beads of sweat dripping down my brow. I'm happy to report that we quickly found some common ground, and now are the best of buds!

If you want to take a stab at servicing the Scout, and are able to post a few detailed pics, we can certainly step you through the key steps. With a little guidance and patience, I suspect you'll be happy with the end result.

Cheers,

TJ


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## novice

tjcruiser said:


> Nov,
> 
> A little over a year ago, I stared my first Scout in the face, with nervous little beads of sweat dripping down my brow. I'm happy to report that we quickly found some common ground, and now are the best of buds!
> 
> If you want to take a stab at servicing the Scout, and are able to post a few detailed pics, we can certainly step you through the key steps. With a little guidance and patience, I suspect you'll be happy with the end result.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


You know - that's what keeps me here in this forum and community.

Hopefully, I'm not being too much of a PITA.

You all are by far the nicest and most generous community I've found this hobby.

Your insight and knowledge is tremendous and the fact you all share so willingly and freely and help those of us with no clue is outstanding.

It's really a pleasure to be here.

I'll take some pics and go from there - now I have to find some oil and lube 

I know there was a thread on this cause I read it LOL

Thanks TJ.


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## novice

*Layout Change*

Now that I've increased my train stock, I began to look at the layout again and decided the 2 stories was beyond my abilities for now.

So, I split the tables and made an "L" shaped O layout, and will use the other 37" x 8' table for the HO.

Here's the new layout - 1 remote switch short of a returning route  (I have a manual, but like the remote swithces) I still have the place holders for the water, lake and I may be able to add a few hills in as well. Also, now I have a train yard for my extra stock 

Blue is the lake and stream - black is where the road will go - also if you look closely at the road (blk) I have room for 2 small bridges over the stream 


































































New home for the new HO layout:


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can always revisit it after you get the HO running and add a level.  I'm going to jump in with both feet and start with a multi-level layout. I'll be posting in the layout section soon looking for ideas and construction tips.  I think we will be finished with the room prep soon.


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## NIMT

novice,
I'm all for the O and HO running together, but If I can put in my 2 cents for your benefit.
Trying to fit an HO layout into a 37" x 8' space is dang near imposable unless your choo choo.
From a radius point of view 18" radius will leave you 1" to work with that is too tight to the wall. You need a minimum of 2 inches to make it work.
18" radius will only let you run only the smallest of equipment.
You could do an end to end layout but then 8' is almost too short for that kind of a set up.
One other little point is working in a corner and up against the wall like that can be very difficult. O would work so much better in that space.
Like I said just my 2 cent's worth.


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## novice

Thanks guys - as always your 2 cents are always appreciated and welcome.

GJR - I still have the platforms for the 2 nd level which I'm planning on placing at the far end of the HO layout and see if I can get a commuter run going up and down hill. If I can get the train up the hill, I should be good to go back to my original

Nothing is permanent yet.

Sean - I have the first half circle laid for the HO and it seems to be working fine with my engine. I only have a few large HO cars (passenger) but I'll keep an eye on the turns.

Also, I can add a bit to the 37" to make it wider if I have to - so far it's working with 1 half turn. (pics to come)

Remember my benches are on wheels so the back is not a problem as I roll the table out to get to the back - still the smartest thing I've done so far.

Thanks guys - always appreciate hearing your input.


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## Big Ed

Do you pull the whole table back on the wheels? 
Or just sections?
If you pull the whole thing I am wondering how you get around to the back.
Though I can't see your whole room.

Also once you get all the stuff on it and fill in the underneath with storage, you will need the Hulk to come move it for you.

Why didn't you take some time and add the risers with a grade. I know you put a lot of time on them. Just shave them down and add your grade.
I think that would have worked out nice.


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## novice

Big Ed - each table is on wheels (there are 3 tables) but currently they are all attached (clamped) so they move as one. There's also about a 6" gap on the window side.

I don't have ply wood bases so I expect the whole thing to move freely and easily no matter the weight - I hope anyway.

To get behind the tables I crawl through the middle (it's not too bad really) - I only have shelving on the two side tables until I finish plus you can't see my storage table - it's positioned from where I take the pictures and runs most of the wall - plus there's a closet behind the storage table. 

Yeah, it's a little tight but only when working with large pieces like the foam tops.

I haven't abandoned the risers (LOL I have 15 of them and yes they took some time and effort) - still working on how I want the whole thing layed out.

Right now I'm seeing what kind of HO layout I can get with the 37" wide table. - I know it's tight, but I have some flex track (soon as I figure out how to make it keep its bends) and really only have 1 or 2 long cars which I don't have to use. They can just hang out on the sidings somewhere.

I now have over 50 ho rolling stock - pics coming soon.


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## novice

*HO's are running *

I have an HO line running in an oval.

Yes it's close to the edge and is tight, but as you can see from the Pic the train with the largest car makes it around just fine.










Need to figure out sidings and additional paths - there will be a trolley here as well.


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## Big Ed

If you have some trestles, you could extend the O over the HO.


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## NIMT

Yea You got the HO running! Trains, Trains, and more Trains!!!


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## novice

LOL thanks guys - still working out the HO route, but I think I have it figured out -I'll add more track later today.

HO is very slow going - nothing like my O.

Big Ed - I have an HO trestle set - 13 pieces (up/down = 26 total) and also an O trestle set neither have a bridge, but I think I may be able to jimmy one together.

Hmm, wonder if I can combine them to loop over the O set? Thanks Ed hadn't thought of that.

Sean - too many darn trains now - but it's fun. I would like to start on scenery one of these days lol.


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## Big Ed

novice said:


> LOL thanks guys - still working out the HO route, but I think I have it figured out -I'll add more track later today.
> 
> HO is very slow going - nothing like my O.
> 
> 
> 
> Big Ed - I have an HO trestle set - 13 pieces (up/down = 26 total) and also an O trestle set neither have a bridge, but I think I may be able to jimmy one together.
> 
> Hmm, wonder if I can combine them to loop over the O set? Thanks Ed hadn't thought of that.
> 
> Sean - too many darn trains now - but it's fun. I would like to start on scenery one of these days lol.


It would be easier looping the O over the HO since you would not have to go that high to get over the HO.
The HO would have to go high to get over the O.


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## novice

big ed said:


> It would be easier looping the O over the HO since you would not have to go that high to get over the HO.
> The HO would have to go high to get over the O.


Hmm - good point - but having the HO go over the O gives me more turn around room for the HO

Gotta think on this - about to cut my first track.


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## novice

Just wanted to update everyone...

I'm still here but have been busy with work - I've been reading the threads and trying to keep up with everyone's wonderful tips and stuff.

I have the HO track running, ordered and received a few new HO L & R switches - although I got steel - they'll have to do for now.

Also, I've been busy building some models both plastic and paper for the HO track, got a few automated buildings as well and recieved some figurines which I placed with the paper buildings and realized the paper models are between O and HO so I have to have them reprinted 

Hopefully, I'm going to paint the underbase of the 2 tracks this weekend as I wait for a new blender to create my own ground covering.

I'll post new pictures shortly - hopefully the paint I got won't melt the foam base LOL (I'll try it on a test piece first).

Best wishes to everyone - painting the HO buildings is no easy task LOL


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## novice

Just thought I'd update this thread so no one thinks I took your information and ran away 

I've put the layout on hold until my new 16' x 12' shed is finished. Half of the new shed is going to be used for the train layout. I'm thinkinging the table work is going to be U shaped with 12'x4' across the back and extended either 2' or so to make it a 6' x 12 x 6' U.

Don't think I'll be able to go more than 6'.

This brings up a new problem though - how to reach the back of the layout for scenery and stuff?

I'll take the tables I currently have and convert them to full 4' widths - but should I make a cutout in the back or do something else?

I'd like to have both the O and HO running as well.

Now I'm stuck again and still don't have a layout lol.

Quite a dilemma for me 

Thoughts or advise as always welcome?


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## Big Ed

Was it you who said that the Mrs decided to let you have room in the shed?

An easy solution to you getting at the back of the layout.......,

Tell her your taking all the shed and say it with authority!

So what if you got to put a cot in it to.:laugh:


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## Xnats

I agree with Ed. You are being thrown out of the house and into a half a shed:laugh: Next it will be no trains allowed  Dig in Brother, remember the Almo, Midway or something. You can do it 
O-yeah don't forget the pics later :laugh:


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## raleets

Be sure to leave a little room in that shed for a roll-a-way bed......a cube fridge.....a small TV.....a porta-potti......a small heater......etc., etc., etc. :laugh::laugh:
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn

An age-old problem, you'll probably have to have a drop-down. You can put scenery on it and then it'll be like part of the layout.


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## novice

big ed said:


> Was it you who said that the Mrs decided to let you have room in the shed?
> 
> An easy solution to you getting at the back of the layout.......,
> 
> Tell her your taking all the shed and say it with authority!
> 
> So what if you got to put a cot in it to.:laugh:


Thanks everyone for the support...

LMAO!!!

I already have the frig waiting for under the layout, the pinball machine is going in there also and the grill is just out side the door.

Only thing missing is the cot which I have an air mattress and that will have to do for now. Also, no running water out there... yet 

Actually she said I can have all of it. Problem is she also said she wants some of the crap out of the garage and into the shed 

Her way of telling me I can have half for the trains


----------



## novice

gunrunnerjohn said:


> An age-old problem, you'll probably have to have a drop-down. You can put scenery on it and then it'll be like part of the layout.


What exactly is a drop down? Pics? I imagine, it's a section of the table that "drops" down to allow access?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A drop-down is simply a section of the layout that is held in place by latches under the table. When you need access, you disconnect the cables for any power (hopefully with a simple connector), undo the latches and lower the section. Then you can stand up in the hole and work on the distant end.

When I get my layout finished, I'll be able to show you pictures of several drop-downs.


----------



## novice

Ah, I've seen pictures of those.

You have to cut out a section in the middle correct?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Correct, you need to pick the right location for the best access and make a trapdoor. I have three sides blocked in a corner, so my 13 x 8 area will have several drop-downs.


----------



## raleets

grjohn,
The last time I was involved with a drop down was when I was about one year old :laugh: :laugh:
My mom taught me how to use 'em 
Bob


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, here's your chance to revisit your youth.


----------



## sstlaure

You could also strategically place pop-outs. Make the base out of gatorfoam (kind of a laminated foam/plastic type material - fairly thin, but stiff. Attach a small u-shaped handle on the bottom so you can pop it up from below and then pull it back in when you're done.

The other option is to make sure no part of the layout is any more than a 3' reach in (think 6' wide peninsula so you can reach in 3' on either side.)

Another option is to just space the back edge from the wall ~12" and just make the layout a little thinner in that area. You only really need the max depth x width where your trains need a loop to turn around.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I like the drop-down as opposed to the pop-outs. You can disconnect any wiring connector and lower it out of your way totally.


----------



## novice

sstlaure said:


> Another option is to just space the back edge from the wall ~12" and just make the layout a little thinner in that area. You only really need the max depth x width where your trains need a loop to turn around.


I hadn't thought of that and think this may be the best way for me to proceed. Specially since I'm not very good at building things, making the back of the layout narrow makes sense to me.

Thanks as always everyone for the advice.


----------



## novice

*The "Train Shed"*

Finally finished (not 100%) the "Train Shed" - took me 1 week to complete the structure. Haven't done a darn thing with the trains since I started this project, but after building this monster I feel much more confident that I can actually take them apart and clean them.

Hopefully, I'll get the electricity to the shed hooked up this week - have no idea how to do it, but I'm gonna try.

Heck, I had no idea how to build a shed but with the help of someone I met I managed - the buddy who was supposed to help bailed on me. 

And it's plumb :thumbsup: LOL

Here are some pics:

Before...


















After...


























Edit: forgot to post the "pre shed" pics.


----------



## Big Ed

Nice........but not big enough!:laugh::thumbsup:


----------



## novice

Thanks Ed - yeah, but it's all I could manage at the moment 

Now that it's done, I'm going to rebuild my tables after I get the electricity hooked up.


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> Thanks Ed - yeah, but it's all I could manage at the moment



Get some N scale, a lot will fit in there.

The way I see it you can always take down one wall and add on to it in the future.:thumbsup:

You told "Her" it is all yours right?:laugh:

You should have built it to look like a caboose, or paint it caboose red.:laugh:

All kidding aside, I think it looks great!:thumbsup:


----------



## novice

big ed said:


> Get some N scale, a lot will fit in there.


I've thought about this, but I barely "see" and work with the HO scale - so N I doubt I'll ever get to N. I do however have an N scale engine and tender I bought by mistake.


big ed said:


> The way I see it you can always take down one wall and add on to it in the future.:thumbsup:


Actually, I already have plans to add on to the front and build a small workshop


big ed said:


> You told "Her" it is all yours right?:laugh:


She's been quite supportive actually in giving me this mostly to myself. The green house is hers and I bought her a pool enclosure.


big ed said:


> You should have built it to look like a caboose, or paint it caboose red.:laugh:


Actually, I was considering this as well - but she wouldn't have it. She did say however, that if I found a real caboose, I can have it placed in the back yard 


big ed said:


> All kidding aside, I think it looks great!:thumbsup:


Thanks, it was quite a daunting task for me - all thumbs and no construction experience at all. I learned so much building this - how to plumb, how to use a speed square and all kinds of neat things


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

novice said:


> I've thought about this, but I barely "see" and work with the HO scale - so N I doubt I'll ever get to N. I do however have an N scale engine and tender I bought by mistake.


Nice to know I'm not the only one that does this. Someone listed an N locomotive in the O-scale on eBay, and it seemed like such a good price that I bought it. Couldn't tell from the pictures, no shot of the bottom. Imagine my surprise when it came in a tiny box.


----------



## Big Ed

I just noticed no window?
Skylights would have been nice too?
Some type of venting would get rid of the heat a little

Are you going to have AC?
They sell some nice small AC units.:thumbsup:
Going to get hot in the summer.

Heat?
Going to get cold in the winter.

Cold hot, plus humidity is no good for the Rail road too.

Still a nice shed,:thumbsup: just a few thoughts for you to think about.

That is it from me tonight. I won't bother you anymore.
Got to roll at 3 am.


----------



## novice

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Nice to know I'm not the only one that does this. Someone listed an N locomotive in the O-scale on eBay, and it seemed like such a good price that I bought it. Couldn't tell from the pictures, no shot of the bottom. Imagine my surprise when it came in a tiny box.


That's exactly what happened to me - thought I was buying a neat steam engine - turned out to be N - I noticed it was N after I received it and looked at the category, but there was no mention in the description.

Sheesh.



big ed said:


> I just noticed no window?
> Skylights would have been nice too?
> Some type of venting would get rid of the heat a little
> 
> Are you going to have AC?
> They sell some nice small AC units.:thumbsup:
> Going to get hot in the summer.
> 
> Heat?
> Going to get cold in the winter.
> 
> Cold hot, plus humidity is no good for the Rail road too.
> 
> Still a nice shed,:thumbsup: just a few thoughts for you to think about.
> 
> That is it from me tonight. I won't bother you anymore.
> Got to roll at 3 am.


No windows yet - still looking for cheap windows.

Yes there will be air, once I get the windows and electricity in 

I have a floor heater for the winter - remember, I'm in Florida

You're never a bother Ed - always appreciate your input.


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey Nov,

Nice shed! One minute, it's a lawn of bare grass. Then, the next minute ... WHAM ... instant shed! The magic of photography!

Good points from Ed ... some ventilation louvers in the top gables are a must. We have a shed of similar size, ad the heat really builds up inside during the summer.

Is that T-111 you used for the sheathing? That stuff holds paint (or pigmented stain) wonderfully ... easy maintenance.

Watch out for critters wanting to live under the floor ... wouldn't want a beautiful train layout to get "skunkified" with a nasty odor! Chicken wire around the perimeter can help keep 'em out.

Enjoy!

TJ


----------



## novice

tjcruiser said:


> Hey Nov,
> 
> Nice shed! One minute, it's a lawn of bare grass. Then, the next minute ... WHAM ... instant shed! The magic of photography!
> 
> Good points from Ed ... some ventilation louvers in the top gables are a must. We have a shed of similar size, ad the heat really builds up inside during the summer.
> 
> Is that T-111 you used for the sheathing? That stuff holds paint (or pigmented stain) wonderfully ... easy maintenance.
> 
> Watch out for critters wanting to live under the floor ... wouldn't want a beautiful train layout to get "skunkified" with a nasty odor! Chicken wire around the perimeter can help keep 'em out.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> TJ


Thanks TJ,

Not sure if its t111 don't think so, but it came with the shed kit.

Excellent idea about the chicken wire - more darn money to spend 

Still looking for windows, the vents I'll install over the next few weeks, really need to get it powered first so I can work out there.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Are you going to dig a trench and bury a wire for power? If so, I'd suggest you drop a couple of other cables in the trench at the same time. Even better is to drop a PVC pipe in so you can pull whatever cable you might want out there. Phone, Intercom, Internet, TV, etc. come to mind.


----------



## sstlaure

Check your local Goodwill or Salvation Army store for cheap windows. They usually have misc. doors/windows available that would be perfectly suited for a shed.


----------



## novice

GRJ - yes - digging a ditch, but not using conduit - going bare UV wire with treated 2x4 over top. Phone, Intercom, Internet, TV - LOL not going to happen - I have wireless internet which I'll try later in the week, phone is cell, intercom is phone and TV well heck guys I'm not going to live out there... am I?

SST - I did check those as well as habitat, nothing small enough. Bought a window today at Home dep for $70.00 - lowest price I've seen - it's 20x30 and right size I think.

Thanks as always for the advice everyone - always welcome, always needed


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

> I'm not going to live out there... am I?


You never know, could be your "doghouse" when you piss the little woman off. 

I'd drop a CAT5e burial cable in there anyway.


----------



## novice

Well, the construction in the back yard is done - the shed is about 90% finished depending on whether or not I power it. I haven't moved the trains yet, they're still in the spare room.

The pool enclosure is done (I can post pics if interested) and now it's time to get back to the trains...

I've built and painted some HO buildings in between construction projects - I'm a terrible painter - my hand shakes too much - but it's good enough for now.

I'm a bit confused though on how to proceed next...

I have the track layout for the O line the way I think I want it - or rather have to have it for now since I can't figure out how to elevate it over the HO set up. 

However, what's next? Ground cover? Mountains? track bed? Ballast?

I'm overwhelmed again and don't have the next step in my head - actually I have all the steps in my head at once and don't know which to do first?

I looked at this thread http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=489&page=4 which helps, but I'm still confused. Think I'll paint the foam this week and see if that gives me any ideas.

Thanks as always in advance for any and all advice.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, if you don't power it, it's going to be hard to run the trains!


----------



## novice

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, if you don't power it, it's going to be hard to run the trains!


Yeah I know - dilemma I'm facing is the humidity and heat in the shed in the summertime causing rusting, glues coming unglued etc.

I'm in Florida and it gets very hot and humid during the summer as you can imagine - The only way I can think to keep the humidity down during the really hot months is to keep the AC on all the time - the wife says no way - too expensive  and I don't blame her.

So, I think for now the trains will stay in the extra room and I'll use the shed for storage and a work shop - not that I do a lot of work shop projects LOL


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, you could run continuous ventilation in there and keep the temperatures down.


----------



## novice

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, you could run continuous ventilation in there and keep the temperatures down.


Can you elaborate? I have 2 vents I installed - how to keep the humidity down?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Humidity is another matter, but if you are running a decent amount of airflow through the shed, the temperature won't hit the ceiling.

You could consider a dehumidifier, but you might as well run an A/C unit. You wouldn't have to run it all the time. Don't your trains deserve the same comfort as you? 

One thing I'd consider. Properly insulate the shed, I did that with one at my previous house and the kids used it as a playhouse for years. I had electric, and intercom, and heat. Since we're in PA and it was in a wooded area, A/C wasn't an issue for 99% of the time.


----------



## Gansett

Run a dehumidifier 24/7, have the water drain into your veggie garden.
Install a roof vent like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...&cj=true&srccode=cii_5784816&locStoreNum=4285

Visit your local lumber yard to see if they have any custom made windows never picked up or made to the wrong size. I picked up 2 Anderson double hung triple pane for an addition, $50 each.:thumbsup:

btw I would have gone with a light colored roof shingle to reflect and not absorb the sun's heat.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The dehumidifier will put heat into the shed. All a dehumidifier consists of is an A/C unit in one box. Might as well run the A/C, which is the beneficial half of a dehumidifier for when it's hot.  Costs of operation will be similar.


----------



## novice

Thanks for the responses Guys - the cost of running the AC 24/7 is prohibitive - my electric bill in the summer is already at $250-300 mo.

Running that power roof vent would also increase the elect also on top of the AC - the wife is having none of that.

I've spoken with someone about adding insulation, but we're not convinced the cost is worth it - the shed is not 100% closed in due to the exterior soffits and adding insulation would only impact the internal temp minimally - the humidity remains an issue.

AFAIK, only an AC unit would keep the humidity under control - again the monthly cost would add up to too much just for the trains - I don't want to piss off the wife too much as she still doesn't mind me buying more train stuff.

Painting the foam bed as we speak - I think it's bubbling - wrong paint 

Gotta search the site for the thread on painting foam.


----------



## Gansett

How about this? When I lived down there seemed to be a lot of them on houses.
http://www.gaf.com/roofing/resident...ne-vents/masterflow-rotary-turbine-vents.aspx

Runs off Mother Nature!! You need a way to move the hot air out.


----------



## novice

Thanks JackC - was thinking about that vent also - while it might help with the heat, it won't help with the humidity.

Where "down here" were you? I'm in northwest.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, those vents will lower the temperature, but nowhere nearly as efficiently as a motor driven fan. It doesn't have to be a large motor, but powered air is the way to go here.


----------



## tjcruiser

Jack,

You can get solar-powered small roof vents. The ones for buildings go for $150 or so and up, but you might consider one made for a boat ... small ones for under $100. Maybe something through WestMarine.com or similar?

TJ


----------



## Gansett

After my USAF stint I worked for National Airlines in Miami. I still have friends there I visit when I go to Daytona but I haven't been down for the past several years. I've got a friend, Charlie, who I met on a woodworking forum that live's just outside Orlando, he works for the mouse or "rat" as he says. Also a cousin in Pensacola.

How big is the shed? I'm thinking a 6,000 btu a/c would cool down the shed in a hurry. 8,000 btu's will cool down up to 350 sq feet,that's 16x22. Charlie turns on the a/c in his garage workshop 10-15 minutes, or in his way of measuring 1 beer, before he goes out. I don't think running a/c only when you're out there will affect your bill a whole lot.


----------



## novice

JackC - I'm in Panama City myself - 

The shed is 16x12 - agreed that turning the AC on when I'm out there would not affect the elect. bill significantly enough to warrant a divorce.

I guess I'm more worried about the layout sitting there for weeks/months on end when I don't get out there to work on due to whatever other projects I'm working on.

After derusting all the O track I have (which was quite a chore) I'm hesitant placing the track in that position again.

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious? Perhaps the amount of humidity and heat when the AC is not on is not something I need to worry about?

I don't know - I do know I built the shed for the trains and then upon finishing it started to second guess myself.

The O layout base is almost painted, should finish it up by tomorrow. I went with a forest green for the base. Pics to come in a few days depending on how my other projects go.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think that proper ventilation (powered) when you're not using it, and A/C when you are would do fine.


----------



## novice

Thanks GRJ - it's the powered 24/7 ventilation the wife won't go for


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, a vent fan won't consume much power, I can't believe that's a major issue. Just tell her to turn off a few nightlights and you're set. You can also save the power by unplugging all the wall warts that power various things around the house if you're that worried about power consumption.


----------



## Big Ed

First you draw up some kind of basic plan for your layout..
The second thing you have to do is build the table.
Then lay the track.
All the rest comes after that.


I have a nice little AC for my master bedroom as I can't sleep unless I am cool.
Mine, instead of cooling the outside hot air, it takes the air in the room and cools that, once it gets down to the predetermined temperature it turns off.
Then it sniffs the air every once and a while and if it starts to warm up it will kick in and cool it down and turn off. Very efficient.:thumbsup:

A normal AC unit takes the hot air from the outside and cools it. If it is a 100 outside the AC is working double time cooling the air.It is always working.
Mine takes the cool air from inside your room and recools it. It just recirculates the air in the room.

Plus all the women say it is a "cute" AC unit. They did a survey.

Nice and quiet, light, and a low profile that protrudes into the room.

I am thinking of buying another one for the other side of the upstairs.

Before I bought this my central ac was working hard all the time trying to cool the upstairs.

I noticed a big drop in my summertime electric bill after I bought it.

You can always have your lady fan you like they did in the Roman days!:laugh:
Tell her to buy some grapes too for your break time snack.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> A normal AC unit takes the hot air from the outside and cools it. If it is a 100 outside the AC is working double time cooling the air.It is always working.
> Mine takes the cool air from inside your room and recools it. It just recirculates the air in the room.


This is not true at all Ed. Any A/C unit has to have a place to put the heat, typically that's outside the house. A/C is just a heat pump, it takes heat from one location and puts it another. However, it has to put the heat in your room outside or it would be a dehumidifier, and that wouldn't cool at all.

I have three heat pumps, and none of them attempt to cool outside air, they all recirculate. Obviously, they DO have to have an outside condenser, because the heat they extract from inside the house has to go outside.


----------



## NIMT

In AZ I had the same problems 140+ deg in the shop and cooling was a swamp cooler, Adds humidity to help cool the air. Well I can say that my trains suffered no ill effects from those conditions.
I have built a lot of train rooms and sheds! #1 thing insulation is a must but not fiberglass it absorbs some amount of moisture! Foam is the only way to go! If you did a standard stud framed shed then you just install the foam over the studs ceiling too. Leaving any eve ventilation intact. New AC units would surprise you how cheap they run, and most of the new ones have thermostats built in so you can set the temp at a reasonable level for dehumidifying then turn it down for use. The last one I installed only cost the lady $15 a month and it ran 24/7. If you want to keep it cheap and simple install a whirly bird fan that uses the room temperature to spin it and it will keep temps very reasonable.


----------



## novice

> Plus all the women say it is a "cute" AC unit. They did a survey.


LOL - and the survey says....!

I have 2 window AC units of which I was going to use one for the shed - both 5k btu's.

I've not installed the window yet since I'm not sold on powering the shed.

In another house we had in Ca. we had a thermal fan unit on the roof - it kicked in at a preset temperature - it cut down our elect bill significantly in the summer.

I'm going to look into this and see how much to install on both my house and the shed.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> This is not true at all Ed. Any A/C unit has to have a place to put the heat, typically that's outside the house. A/C is just a heat pump, it takes heat from one location and puts it another. However, it has to put the heat in your room outside or it would be a dehumidifier, and that wouldn't cool at all.
> 
> I have three heat pumps, and none of them attempt to cool outside air, they all recirculate. Obviously, they DO have to have an outside condenser, because the heat they extract from inside the house has to go outside.



That is how it was explained as to how it works, NOT LIKE A NORMAL AC UNIT.
Mine take the air inside which is basically cool and RE cools it. I guess the heat part gets dumped outside.

All I know is that it works great!:thumbsup:
That is all that matters to me, low cost to run it too.:thumbsup:

And it is cute to boot.:laugh:

All the women who visit my home and see it say that too.:laugh:
What a cute AC you have.:laugh:


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> LOL - and the survey says....!
> 
> I have 2 window AC units of which I was going to use one for the shed - both 5k btu's.
> 
> I've not installed the window yet since I'm not sold on powering the shed.
> 
> In another house we had in Ca. we had a thermal fan unit on the roof - it kicked in at a preset temperature - it cut down our elect bill significantly in the summer.
> 
> I'm going to look into this and see how much to install on both my house and the shed.


Did you run this by the Mrs?
You can always have your lady fan you like they did in the Roman days!:laugh:
Tell her to buy some grapes too for your break time snack.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> That is how it was explained as to how it works, NOT LIKE A NORMAL AC UNIT.
> Mine take the air inside which is basically cool and RE cools it. I guess the heat part gets dumped outside.
> 
> All I know is that it works great!:thumbsup:
> That is all that matters to me, low cost to run it too.:thumbsup:
> 
> And it is cute to boot.:laugh:
> 
> All the women who visit my home and see it say that too.:laugh:
> What a cute AC you have.:laugh:


Well, advertisers can say almost anything. I've been dealing with HVAC ever since the 60's when I worked for IBM and we installed really huge computer A/C units. I can assure you that the basic principles upon which they work have not changed in that time.

The one A/C unit I know of that actually does take outside air and cool it is in your car, unless you select _recirculate_ or _maximum cool_. As far as house A/C units, some of the window ones do have an outside air setting that will cool the outside air, but you'd be foolish in most cases to use it.  The standard two piece A/C or heatpump central units installed in most houses do not take in any outside air for the inside unit. The condenser heats the outside air in the summer and cools it in the winter, thus extracting heat from either inside or outside, depending on the operating mode.

I do have to ask what all those women are doing in your BR checking your A/C!


----------



## novice

Thanks Guys - 

NIMT - Thanks for your advice. I'm going to look into the foam insulation costs later today. It's the same foam I bought for the train beds correct?

Updates to come on the layout progress - the green bed looks pretty darn good.


----------



## novice

So I started a small diorama to start working with scenery - there is a thread by Robe that gave me the idea - not savvy enough to think of it myself - thanks Robe.

Anyway, here is the first coat:
















Some things I learned so far:


Mix the mud in small amounts - it gets pasty real fast and I had to keep adding water to thin it out.
Make into almost a paint consistency - if I mixed it too thick, I had problems painting it on - using a small paint brush - it clustered and I ended up with globs of mud
Working with the mud is a pain in the butt to clean up. 
Need a work area to work on this so it has time to sit and dry, then re apply a new coat of mud.

Adding another coat today if I can finish the backyard work before it gets too hot hwell:


----------



## Big Ed

Jessie 


Use your hands to smear it on. Get some of those disposable gloves.

With a finger you can get into the crevices.

Some packing peanuts make great boulders to add here and there too. Just gunk them up in the plaster and stick them in place.

It is coming along OK, Where did you screw up?


A note to all using this, preferably get a 5 gal bucket to rinse your hands and tools that you use. Don't use your sink! Unless you want to work on your plumbing.

Just take the bucket when your done and dump it in the lower back forty.


----------



## novice

Ed - Great friggin Ideas 

Thanks so much - 

I screwed up a few places where there are globs I couldn't get out. 

Also, I couldn't get the thumb tacks to stick into the wood to hold the screen. They kept popping out.

I used thumb tacks, tape (painters and duct) and spray adhesive trying to hold the screen in place. Never did get it to hold, so I just started applying mud 

Didn't think about using my hands - guess I'm too prissy to think about getting really dirty when I do this stuff LMAO.

Hadn't thought about using the peanuts I've been saving for something (what I had no idea)


----------



## norgale

Hahahahahaha! Novice you are funny. One good thing about drywall mud is that it doesn't dry so fast. Gives you time to work it around. 
You learned a good thing about fastening the screen. It has to be pretty solid so you can apply the mud. Try some thinned plaster or whatever your using and soak some paper towels in it and then drape the towels over the screen and see if that's any better. Also take the screen and pull it over the back of your backboard and staple the heck out of it. That will hold.
Actually you havn't screwed up anything that I can see. All scenery looks like that until you get enough mud on the screen. You don't want to put the mud on too think anyway or it will take forever to dry and might crack. Go ahead and do the next coat and it will look better. You can leave lumps around to look like boulders or uneven terrain. Keep at it and you'll see it will be ok. Pete


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> Ed - Great friggin Ideas
> 
> Thanks so much -
> 
> I screwed up a few places where there are globs I couldn't get out.
> 
> Also, I couldn't get the thumb tacks to stick into the wood to hold the screen. They kept popping out.
> 
> I used thumb tacks, tape (painters and duct) and spray adhesive trying to hold the screen in place. Never did get it to hold, so I just started applying mud
> 
> Didn't think about using my hands - guess I'm too prissy to think about getting really dirty when I do this stuff LMAO.
> 
> Hadn't thought about using the peanuts I've been saving for something (what I had no idea)



For a little bigger boulder you can cut bigger pieces from the foam that comes with say a TV. Just shape them up a little.



norgale said:


> Hahahahahaha! Novice you are funny. One good thing about drywall mud is that it doesn't dry so fast. Gives you time to work it around.
> You learned a good thing about fastening the screen. It has to be pretty solid so you can apply the mud. Try some thinned plaster or whatever your using and soak some paper towels in it and then drape the towels over the screen and see if that's any better. Also take the screen and pull it over the back of your backboard and staple the heck out of it. That will hold.
> Actually you havn't screwed up anything that I can see. All scenery looks like that until you get enough mud on the screen. You don't want to put the mud on too think anyway or it will take forever to dry and might crack. Go ahead and do the next coat and it will look better. You can leave lumps around to look like boulders or uneven terrain. Keep at it and you'll see it will be ok. Pete


Yes paper towels dipped in the mud and draped over the top is a good idea. After it drys it is like cement.

If it cracks you can just paint in a crevice. Even if it cracks you could hide it with some greenery. 
But you are right, it is better to apply thinner coats of the mud.
Your right with the lumps too, he could just paint them in as separate rocks.

It may look bad in the beginning but in the end it will all come together.

Also when your working on it little pieces will fall off. Don't throw them away you can use them as talus. (loose rock that falls to the base of a mountain)


----------



## jonyb

Good advice in here... Novice, nice work!


----------



## novice

Thanks guys - I screwed up one of the tunnels (forgot to take pic) it was floating about 6 feet off the ground LOL.

Pics probably tomorrow after the 3rd coat on the hillside and 1st coat on the tunnels.


----------



## novice

Here are some pics of a few HO models and things I worked on recently:

Merchants Row I - the painted model - not a very good painter 

AFter I wasn't able to get the details painted, I opted to go with 2 colors 


























Merchants Row II - unpainted with signs... blech - my hand shake too much 


















This is a O scale billboard I made from an onion sack 










At the bottom of the pic is a scaffold I'll add to front


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looks pretty good to me.


----------



## novice

Thanks GRJ - lots of detail mistakes 

Just can't paint the details well enough for my taste and to look good


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's why I don't try to paint stuff like this. I'm hell on wheels with a spray can, but don't turn me loose with a brush!


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> Thanks GRJ - lots of detail mistakes
> 
> Just can't paint the details well enough for my taste and to look good



Try the other hand?
It is hard painting details it takes patience and practice.

Some how make a brace to rest your arm on while painting the things like the window frames. And take it slow, work from the outer edge and paint towards the inside. If you bring your strokes to the outside your more apt to screw up. 
Try something like the blue masking tape? Just make sure the other paint is well dried. And don't leave the tape on for weeks. 

Maybe the wife has hidden painting talent?

It looks like the white could use another coat?
I see the red bleeding through the gray too, but I sort of like that.

The brown one looks good, leave the windows brown?
You have to work on gluing windows too, there are a lot of glue runs huh?

Use a toothpick and just dab the edges of them. You don't need much to hold them in.

The more you do the better you should get.

You might be able to hide them with a few homemade shades.
A different story though.

A good quality brush in the right size and shape is a must too.
Cheap brushes do serve a purpose but not for detailing.
Your better off with a good quality brush.
Check out how many different brushes you get in a artist starter pack.


----------



## Bman

Good tips, thanks big ed, I'm a really crummy painter so I this is gonna help me out a lot, especially with the detail stuff.


----------



## novice

Thanks guys...



big ed said:


> Try the other hand?
> It is hard painting details it takes patience and practice.
> 
> Some how make a brace to rest your arm on while painting the things like the window frames. And take it slow, work from the outer edge and paint towards the inside. If you bring your strokes to the outside your more apt to screw up.


I'll give that a try


> Try something like the blue masking tape? Just make sure the other paint is well dried. And don't leave the tape on for weeks.


LOL, this was done with the blue tape LMAO - told you I suck at this 



> Maybe the wife has hidden painting talent?


No patience for this and doesn't want to get involved.



> It looks like the white could use another coat?
> I see the red bleeding through the gray too, but I sort of like that.


I actually like it this way also, except for the spot where there are noticeable brick work. That's where I tried to paint them red and didn't work out, so I went over it with white 



> The brown one looks good, leave the windows brown?


Brown is unpainted LOL - I haven't screwed it up.... Yet



> You have to work on gluing windows too, their are a lot of glue runs huh?
> 
> Use a toothpick and just dab the edges of them. You don't need much to hold them in.


Yeah, I learned not to use Gorilla Snot after the brown one  - went out and got cement and the painted one looks a bit better with the glue job.



> A good quality brush in the right size and shape is a must too.
> Cheap brushes do serve a purpose but not for detailing.
> Your better off with a good quality brush.
> Check out how many different brushes you get in a artist starter pack.


I have 2 packs of artist brushes, some have very small bristle heads and some don't - I tried to use the smallest one on the window sills - well, that didn't work LOL.

Thanks though for all your suggestions and recommendations - they are certainly much appreciated and welcome.


----------



## Big Ed

Bman said:


> Good tips, thanks big ed, I'm a really crummy painter so I this is gonna help me out a lot, especially with the detail stuff.



One more thing don't try to paint it all in one coat.
Two light coats should do it.
The first coat will look bad that is normal. Let it dry good and put a second coat on.
Two coats always look better no matter what your painting.
( unless it is an oil painting )

I think it also helps to spray a primer coat on the plastic before hand.


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> Thanks guys...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give that a try
> 
> 
> LOL, this was done with the blue tape LMAO - told you I suck at this
> 
> 
> 
> No patience for this and doesn't want to get involved.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually like it this way also, except for the spot where there are noticeable brick work. That's where I tried to paint them red and didn't work out, so I went over it with white
> 
> 
> 
> Brown is unpainted LOL - I haven't screwed it up.... Yet
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I learned not to use Gorilla Snot after the brown one  - went out and got cement and the painted one looks a bit better with the glue job.
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 packs of artist brushes, some have very small bristle heads and some don't - I tried to use the smallest one on the window sills - well, that didn't work LOL.
> 
> Thanks though for all your suggestions and recommendations - they are certainly much appreciated and welcome.




Ha Ha Ha,:laugh:

Oh well......how about at big 10/4 on the onion sign?:laugh::thumbsup:
Or is that screwed up somehow too?


----------



## novice

big ed said:


> Ha Ha Ha,:laugh:
> 
> Oh well......how about at big 10/4 on the onion sign?:laugh::thumbsup:
> Or is that screwed up somehow too?


LOL - nah, it's not too bad.

Still in all, I keep trying no matter how ugly they come out. I know it sounds like I'm a nay sayer and whiner, I'm just really picky about things I do that I don't do well.

Much appreciated Ed -good advice is always welcome


----------



## Big Ed

This is a little long but watch it to the end.

If this guy can paint you can too.

Remarkable!:thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk


----------



## novice

big ed said:


> This is a little long but watch it to the end.
> 
> If this guy can paint you can too.
> 
> Remarkable!:thumbsup:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk


LMAO - Smart ***


----------



## novice

Just got a chassis for the 322 AF $40 on ebay - Boy I hope it's the right one and works


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> LMAO - Smart ***



did you watch it to the end?

pretty good for an elephant!
And you can see it was thinking about it's next brush stroke, pretty amazing.:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

No way ... is that for real?!?!? Seriously ???

Where are the hidden strings moving his trunk around ?!?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

This in the comments says it best.


> I think this is a great video though it is reasonable to question its trueness. Like someone said before, they show the elephant walking towards the canvas and after that it is all a close up. I wanna believe it is real. It only makes me want to go an verify it on person, as any soun sceptic should.


----------



## tjcruiser

Maybe he fixes old Lionel trains, too ?!?!?


----------



## novice

tjcruiser said:


> Maybe he fixes old Lionel trains, too ?!?!?


Now that would be useful


----------



## novice

*Update - 4-28-11*

Thought I'd update the thread so no one thinks I'm slacking off - too much 

I have several projects going, all related to my layouts:

*Shed *

It was a cool morning after the storms, so I got to put up some insulation - did most of the roof insulation and a few wall pieces and ran out of insulation - nice thing is the shed was dry - no leaks so far  Whew... Scheduled to run power to it on Saturday - we'll see if my buddy shows up - he has a habit of not showing 

*Buildings/Structures* 

Building my new HO maintenance building, waiting for my new 90º clamp to finish it - not sure if I'm going to paint it or not. Finished the windows this morning.

Also, putting some more signs on a few of the buildings I've already finished.

*Diorama* 

Added 2 tunnels and put the 2nd coat of mud on them today - pics later after it dries - 3rd coat maybe tomorrow or sometime this weekend.

*Rolling Stock*

Separated all the HO cars that need work/parts - haven't gone back to visit the screw fiasco yet, as I'm waiting for new trucks I bought on ebay and some screws from Sean - Thx Sean.

I'm trying to find couplers for the HO's - getting confused reading the Kadee site, not sure what I need to order 

*Layout Track*

Waiting to hear from CD on the layout - no rush since I have so many other things happening at the moment. Can't wait to see what he comes up with.

I now have 3 work bench stations - 1 for models (gluing and painting), 1 for mudding (dioramas and read epiphany below...) and 1 for over stock at the layout

*So I think I had an epiphany:*

While doing the diorama, I thought I could build/mud walls and mountains and hills and things separately without trying to build them directly on the layout and add them later. 

Thoughts? It seems this would work quite nicely for me.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You have been busy! 

Lots of folks build the tunnels, etc. separately, so I guess that can work. That appeals to me, it's messy trying to do them on the layout. Of course, they have to be designed to "drop in".


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> This in the comments says it best.



if you watch it all the elephant passes the brush to the lady and she puts color on it and hands it back.

I think I saw this on the news one night showing how it painted.
And they said tourists pay big bucks to own one of the paintings.

Personally I don't know.hwell:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Tourists are fools, we all know that.


----------



## novice

Here's my new tool in action - this thing is my model saver 



















New model pics coming hopefully tomorrow...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looks like a handy tool to have for those kinds of jobs.


----------



## concretepumper

Nice tool!  :laugh: What type of glue are you using?


----------



## raleets

CP,
Some of us are elderly enough to recall Jackie Gleason hawking "Mother Fletcher's kayak glue". :laugh: :laugh:
He had a full line of "Mother Fletcher" products. Way funny for it's day. 
Bob


----------



## novice

concretepumper said:


> Nice tool!  :laugh: What type of glue are you using?


CP I've been using Contact cement on all my models - it's what I had and dries very quickly.

Worked on the shed today - nice cool day - installed a window (after much struggling and the window falling apart in my hands - luckily I had a hammer   :thumbsup: )

Got more insulation up as well - going to work on the mud for the diorama and the O shed tonight - hopefully pics will be tomorrow or later tonight.

Got a new HO model coming soon also, waiting...


----------



## novice

Working on finishing my HO round house - almost done - looks fair.

Hoping to get track laid today for at least the O layout, maybe get some HO laid as well.

I'll post some pics as soon as I have something running.


----------



## novice

Latest update:

O track is back up and running - kinda - pics later, gotta figure out some switching issues with a cpl loco's.

Ho track is semi back up with an oval. Got the roundhouse 99% done need to add the turntable and the motor.

Found out most of my HO loco's don't run  maybe cleaning will help if I can see the darn things - geez they're small.

Also got 1 of the trolley tracks up - back forth only at the moment, too bad I can't get it to auto reverse . 

Probably going to put some flex track in to make a simple oval. Not exactly what I want, but looks like all I can accomplish.

Need more structures and buildings for the ho layout - darn budget is drying up fast.

Put together 2 small oval test tracks under the layouts - 1 HO, and 1 O for testing various automated things and loco's and stuff. Works fairly well. O is so much easier to work with lol.

Pics to come soon - maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> Latest update:
> 
> O track is back up and running - kinda - pics later, gotta figure out some switching issues with a cpl loco's.
> 
> Ho track is semi back up with an oval. Got the roundhouse 99% done need to add the turntable and the motor.
> 
> Found out most of my HO loco's don't run  maybe cleaning will help if I can see the darn things - geez they're small.
> 
> Also got 1 of the trolley tracks up - back forth only at the moment, too bad I can't get it to auto reverse .
> 
> Probably going to put some flex track in to make a simple oval. Not exactly what I want, but looks like all I can accomplish.
> 
> Need more structures and buildings for the ho layout - darn budget is drying up fast.
> 
> Put together 2 small oval test tracks under the layouts - 1 HO, and 1 O for testing various automated things and loco's and stuff. Works fairly well. O is so much easier to work with lol.
> 
> Pics to come soon - maybe tomorrow.



When I took all the N out I went to run the engines and most ran poor or not at all.

I cleaned just the wheels and 80 percent of them are running fine now.

What a big difference a little 200 proof did.

They still need servicing I guess my nephew did not do that much.

Wipe the track clean too while your at it.


----------



## novice

big ed said:


> When I took all the N out I went to run the engines and most ran poor or not at all.
> 
> I cleaned just the wheels and 80 percent of them are running fine now.
> 
> What a big difference a little 200 proof did.
> 
> They still need servicing I guess my nephew did not do that much.
> 
> Wipe the track clean too while your at it.


Thanks Big Ed - good ideas - specially the track .

That's going to take a while LOL.


----------



## novice

*Update with Pics*

I got some couplers today and managed to fix several of my HO cars needing couplers.

I got 3 kinds and it seems I can only use 1 of the 3:

Pics of couplers:

I can use these:









Can't use these: (Anyone know what these are for?)


----------



## novice

*More pics*

The O layout is up and running and so is the HO - no where near finished but at least the trains go around 

O layout:




























HO layout: - needs more buildings...



















Also got this today - $1.76 + 6.00 shipping:










Doesn't run very well - if I push down on it the wheels spin but makes a horrid noise.


----------



## tjcruiser

Nov,

Both couplers are horn-hook types. The first is used on Tyco, LifeLike (I think), and perhaps other. I'm not sure which mfr would use the other type.

Unfortunately, there are lots and lots of various types of couplers. No universal standard, though the Kadee style has widespread popularity.

Regards,

TJ


----------



## novice

Thanks TJ,

The Kadees are beyond my budget at the moment  I've been eyeing them for awhile.

Is there somewhere that has images of the various kind and what they go to? I have a few other cars that need couplers, but they also need the part that attaches the coupler - called a box?


----------



## tjcruiser

Some good info on coupler types in this thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5242

TJ


----------



## novice

Thanks for the link TJ - good thread.
*
Update:*

I took apart my 1655 trying to clean it and remove some rust - there was rust on the wheels and I noticed one wheel has been eroded somehow. Couldn't figure out how to get the wheels off but that's fine for now.

Anyway, it worked just fine before I touched it.

Now, it doesn't run - just sits there, lights up and buzzes.

I am so done with trying to do any of this technical stuff on my own. Won't be soldering any diodes, won't be cleaning any more engines.

I'll find someone to fix and clean these someday - in the meantime I'm only going to buy and run brand new loco's. No more used stuff for me.

I'll just stick to putting the trains on the track and watch them run around.

Very frustrated at the moment and extremely depressed. Good thing the sledge hammer is locked in my shed and it's raining...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Don't try to take the wheels off! 

I still have that really nice GP-9 in the for-sale section.


----------



## tjcruiser

Nov,

Don't touch the 1655 for a day or two. Let the Gremlins get bored, and they'll fly away. Then, after that, take a deep breath, maybe post a pic or two, and we can help coach you through some diagnostics ...

It'll all be OK .. it'll all be OK ...

TJ


----------



## norgale

Geeze Novice! Where's your sense of adventure? Ha! I'm with you when it comes to working on busted engines. However the biggest problem is the lack of any good instructions and pictures of how the derned things go together.
Personally I'm pretty much mechanically inclined but totally electrically challanged. If I have a picture of what wire goes where and what gear goes where,I can fix anything. No doubt the pics would help you too.
I think it would be a great idea to start a thread for a library where any pics of engines in exploded views could be stored. Then anyone could look up their engine and hopefully be able to track down a problem and fix it. It would have to be a sticky though so we could find it.
Anybody think that's a good idea? Pete


----------



## Big Ed

novice said:


> Thanks for the link TJ - good thread.
> *
> Update:*
> 
> I took apart my 1655 trying to clean it and remove some rust - there was rust on the wheels and I noticed one wheel has been eroded somehow. Couldn't figure out how to get the wheels off but that's fine for now.
> 
> Anyway, it worked just fine before I touched it.
> 
> Now, it doesn't run - just sits there, lights up and buzzes.
> 
> I am so done with trying to do any of this technical stuff on my own. Won't be soldering any diodes, won't be cleaning any more engines.
> 
> I'll find someone to fix and clean these someday - in the meantime I'm only going to buy and run brand new loco's. No more used stuff for me.
> 
> I'll just stick to putting the trains on the track and watch them run around.
> 
> Very frustrated at the moment and extremely depressed. Good thing the sledge hammer is locked in my shed and it's raining...


What exactly did you take apart on it? Just the shell, or did you get into the brushes and the rest?

Try moving the e unit lever while you are powering it.

Don't take the wheels off.

Look to make sure you did not break a wire.

Put it on the track without the shell on and work the e unit lever.
That is the piece of metal sticking up on the back of the engine.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

norgale said:


> However the biggest problem is the lack of any good instructions and pictures of how the derned things go together.


For the 1655, page 122 of the *Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains (1945-1969)*. This is a must have reference if you're going to work on old post-war trains. Also, I'm surprised you haven't discovered Olsen's Library, a diagram and parts list of the 1655 are there as well. The information is available, you just have to go get it.


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey John ... go easy on the guys. Yes, Greenberg's and Olsen's are great sources of info, but we all have to learn about them from someone. No reason to be surprised. That's the great aspect of this forum, so that we can all swap tips and info with everyone else. I refer to Greenbergs and Olsens all the time. But a little over a year ago I had know idea what they were. Thankfully, I got "clued in" from the great group of guys here.

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I thought I was going easy on him.  I also gave the specific reference to the overall library and the specific loco in question. I'm not sure how much "easier" I can go... I'm sure he's not that thin-skinned.


----------



## tjcruiser

John,

Just to clarify (I hope), it was Norgale who posted the comment about looking for instructions, and Novice who was looking for info on the 1655. I'm not sure if you realized that. If so, pardon my comments here.

TJ


----------



## Massey

Ahhh... cool this is one big happy dysfunctional family!! I think I can get to like a place like this!

LOL 

I may not own any Lionel stuff but I have been asked in the past to repair some of it. Thank you for the site I never knew they were there and next time I get one on my bench that I cant seem to figure out I know where to go.


Massey


----------



## norgale

AAAwwww Geeze! Everywhere I go I seem to start some bickering over something. It's not intentional but it just happens.
Of course Greenbergs is the bible for Lionel but I failed to realize that it was Lionel that we were talking about. I was thinking more along the lines of Tyco and Atlas and the like. 
Severl years ago when I was up to my neck in restoring my 1960 Lincoln I was heavily into the Lincoln forum.net looking for info on some of the electrical systems in the car. There was little info available on the electrics like pictures or schematics but I kept looking. 
I came across a company in Atlanta that had the complete set of schematics from Ford for all the Lincolns from 1960 to 1989 and they had decided to sell their master copies because of low sales. Over a short period of time I bought the entire set. I was amazed at the info that was on these schematics and they were just the ticket for all the guys on the forum who wanted electrical info and couldn't find it.
It took some doing on the part of several of the forum members and the members of the Lincoln and Continental Owners Club of America but finally we got permission to add a "library and documentation" topic to the Lincoln Forum to post all these schematics for everybody to view for FREE. Free was my one stipulation for donating all the schematics.
It took five members from Florida to Oregon to get the schematics onto PDF form and posted on the forum library. ( the size of the schematics was huge so it took special equipment to scan them) They are all still there today and I hope they stay there forever to help the upcoming enthusiasts who ask all the same questions that I and those of my generation have asked in the past.
This whole thing was a big effort on the part of a lot of interested folks all over the country and several foreign countries as well but it got done for the benefit of the entire Lincoln community.
Our problems here, with so many guys asking so many questions about fixing our locomotives and rolling stock, are very similar to the Lincoln problems so I only made the suggestion because it worked so well on the Lincoln forum.
If we started a sticky for exploded views and repair instructions of any of the engines that anyone could post then eventually we would have a reference topic for guys to go to to look up what they need for their repair problems.
WE now know about Greengerg and Olsen but what about Bachmann and Atlas and Cox and all the engines made by companies now out of business? They don't all have manuals that you can buy or anything you can look up online either.
So that's my reasoning behind the suggestion of a sticky for this info. And I'm not offended in anyway by anything anyone has said about this. Besides I don't get mad, I get even. :laugh: Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Look, I can help with the O-scale documentation, you're on your own for the HO stuff. 

BTW, we already have a How To Thread that that stuff could be posted to: http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2355

Maybe it would make more sense to have a separate one for just documentation?


----------



## norgale

The idea of having a separate thread for the documents is to NOT have any chit chat there to cover up the pictures and text. Pete


----------



## norgale

John; I started a thread for the documents under 'General Discussion'. Take a look and see how we can improve what is started so we can finalize the format. Is there some way we can separate the gauges or will it be ok to lump everything under one category? Pete


----------



## Massey

I would think that we would need some type of librarian that could control the documents as they arrive. This would allow the improtant data to be listed and in a standard format while keeping the chatter away. Does this message board have the ability to do that?

Massey


----------



## norgale

We tried that on the Lincoln Forum and it didn't work very well. The moderator has to give control to someone to make changes and that takes control away from him. Not something the site owners want to do. It's better to just have a catagory and if someone puts something in the wrong place we just ask him to change it. That worked much better.
I also think that the only way to catagorize the different gauges is to have a separate thread for each one. This could get complicated and that would defeat the purpose of it. We have to keep it simple or the guys won't use it. I appreciate your interest here Massey. Thanks for coming on board. Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'd get the mods involved and see what they want to do. Some tips are generic, some are scale specific, so I'm not sure which way it makes sense to go. My leaning would be one thread, since sometimes it'll be confusing as to whether you should post it in a scale specific thread or a general thread.


----------



## norgale

The moderators will of course be involved so we should come up with how we want this to run so we'll have something to show tham. Massey is involved too and hopefully we'll get other input from more people. See how much interest there is so we don't go doing something that won't get used. Pete


----------



## tjcruiser

T-Man initiated an excellent "find a manual" thread in the O section here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5946

This is a nice example of what could be done.

TJ


----------



## tooter

Hey tj, 

Perhaps that excellent O manual thread could be turned into a sticky in the O section so that as other sources are found they could be added.

Greg


----------



## tjcruiser

It already is a Sticky ... first on the list!


----------



## norgale

If it's already a sticky under "O" scale then that's a good thing. O scalers can addto it and it will become the place to go to find info on repairing any o scale engines ect. Good move there.
Maybe a sticky under each of the existing scale catagories would be the right thing. Keeps it all organized according to scale. pete


----------



## Big Ed

norgale said:


> John; I started a thread for the documents under 'General Discussion'. Take a look and see how we can improve what is started so we can finalize the format. Is there some way we can separate the gauges or will it be ok to lump everything under one category? Pete


Me and my Hot Rod 56 Lincoln, dropped and skirted.:thumbsup:

Try to use the search feature, The T man and TJ have a bunch of pictures of how to do's. And there are more.

But feel free to ask if you can't find something.

Just don't ask John.


----------



## tjcruiser

The Search tool is a great resource. Often, at the end of a post, I'll include a few special tagwords / phrases that will be "hits" for future searches.

I like the idea of using T-Man's O "find a manual" thread as a themed Sticky in the other scaled sections.

OK, guys ... homework assignment ...

TJ


----------



## novice

There are also several websites where you can store and add documents in many formats - one of these sites I use to create ebooks which is what I think may be needed at some point.

An interesting side bar to this is if you gather enough of these documents you can sell the ebook on kindle


----------



## tooter

tjcruiser said:


> It already is a Sticky ... first on the list!


Shows you how often I look at the stickies...


----------



## novice

My skin is pretty thick - and I do know about those sites - problem is - I don't understand a lot of the terminology still - armature, brushes, e unit etc. i haven't got a clue about what they are etc. 

You guys have been very helpful and patient with me and it is much appreciated, I just think this mechanical stuff is not my cup of tea - never been very good with fixing things anyway.

Per the 1655:

There were no broken wires - I took the shell off, took the couplers off (had to to get the shell off) used goo gone and BKF on the wheels to remove the rust, used some oil on what I think were the bearings of the wheels and that's about it.

I put the train back on the track this morning and it kinda works (maybe something wasn't dried out? ) - gotta really crank up the transformer which I did not have to do before. It goes forward but not in reverse and no longer makes it over my switches 

Anyway, got a few new things in the mail today - pics to come - my first search light car and a new 8124 engine - engine looks really good and I think it's my first engine that blows steam?


----------



## Big Ed

Cool! It blows real steam?:thumbsup:


Is it a diesel engine?


----------



## novice

Not sure ed - the smoke stack is open so I assume it blows smoke 

Here they are:

My new 8214 - runs like a champ - makes it over all my switches and I think this may be new favorite - I think it does steam also  - I'm not touching it, it works 










Looks brand spanking new


----------



## novice

So, I found an actual train store 120 miles from me in pensacola. It's the closest store to me that I could find.

Problem? At $5.00 a gal for gas, it will cost me about $50.00 to get there and back one time. If I have to leave my engines for service that will be $100.00 (drop off and pick up) + the cost of servicing.

At that price I'd rather send them to NIMT who offered to work on my engines awhile ago (when I first found this forum) for what I think was a very reasonable price.

To ship my engines to him will cost me $15.00 for shipping both ways + his charges. I think it's much more affordable now to just send him the engines.

I haven't seen NIMT here in awhile, but if he ever comes back and the offer is still there I'm taking him up on it.


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## Big Ed

Nice but eventually they will need service. just like your car you wouldn't run it a 50,000 miles with out changing the oil right?

Check to see if it has an on/off switch for the smoke. If you don't have any fluid in it turn it to off or you will burn the smoke unit up.

then you will have to fix it.


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## Big Ed

novice said:


> So, I found an actual train store 120 miles from me in pensacola. It's the closest store to me that I could find.
> 
> Problem? At $5.00 a gal for gas, it will cost me about $50.00 to get there and back one time. If I have to leave my engines for service that will be $100.00 (drop off and pick up) + the cost of servicing.
> 
> At that price I'd rather send them to NIMT who offered to work on my engines awhile ago (when I first found this forum) for what I think was a very reasonable price.
> 
> To ship my engines to him will cost me $15.00 for shipping both ways + his charges. I think it's much more affordable now to just send him the engines.
> 
> I haven't seen NIMT here in awhile, but if he ever comes back and the offer is still there I'm taking him up on it.



He is out running with the wolfs....full moon.


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## novice

Yep just looked it up and 8214 does in deed blow smoke  Yippee!!!

I have the repair manual for it so I can post it somewhere if needed. Hmm, need to find the matching tender for it.

Also, I have the lionel repair CD if you want me to post that I will - only cost me a few bucks if I remember correctly.


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## Big Ed

novice said:


> Yep just looked it up and 8214 does in deed blow smoke  Yippee!!!





PUT SOME FLUID IN OR TURN IT OFF.....NOW....DON'T RUN IT TILL YOU DO!


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## novice

big ed said:


> PUT SOME FLUID IN OR TURN IT OFF.....NOW....DON'T RUN IT TILL YOU DO!


Thanks Ed - I won't.

I don't see a switch to turn off the smoke part and I have no smoke anyway 

Hmm, lionel docs say this is a DC engine - but it ran well on my track - kinda odd isn't it?


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## gunrunnerjohn

It's a DC engine in the respect that it has a DC can motor, however it also has an electronic reversing unit and it designed to run on AC from the track. Most of my modern TMCC locomotives have DC motors, but they all run on AC.

Have you put some smoke fluid in the stack? You probably should start with 8-10 drops and then run it for a few minutes.


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## norgale

Yay! Another Lincoln man. I knew there had to be one here at least. Show us what that 56 looks like. It is my most favorite Lincoln ever since I saw a brand new one in 56. Most of the people now have never seen one and certainly not a new one. Don't know what they missed. Pete


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## novice

Lincoln?



norgale said:


> Yay! Another Lincoln man. I knew there had to be one here at least. Show us what that 56 looks like. It is my most favorite Lincoln ever since I saw a brand new one in 56. Most of the people now have never seen one and certainly not a new one. Don't know what they missed. Pete



GRJ - I don't have any smoke


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## norgale

Sorry about the last post. It's obviously on the wrong thread but I don't know how that happened. It's supposed to go to Big Ed. Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn

novice said:


> Lincoln?
> 
> GRJ - I don't have any smoke


In that case, DON'T pour smoke fluid down the stack!


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## novice

Wow can't believe it's been 6 months since I posted on the layout - no progress has been make and I feel embarrassed

To update everyone:

The shed never got electricity - the buddy who was going to do it is no longer a buddy - go figure

The room where I still have the layouts was way too warm all summer to really work on the layout - also, business life got very scary and busy this year (real estate don't you know) - so I had to stop production and purchasing and focus on real life things.

I did however purchase a few cars before I stopped which I'll post soon.

Other than that the layout is as it was - not finished


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## Big Ed

novice said:


> Wow can't believe it's been 6 months since I posted on the layout - no progress has been make and I feel embarrassed
> 
> To update everyone:
> 
> The shed never got electricity - the buddy who was going to do it is no longer a buddy - go figure
> 
> The room where I still have the layouts was way too warm all summer to really work on the layout - also, business life got very scary and busy this year (real estate don't you know) - so I had to stop production and purchasing and focus on real life things.
> 
> I did however purchase a few cars before I stopped which I'll post soon.
> 
> Other than that the layout is as it was - not finished


I was wondering what happened to you.

Get someone else to run the power out to the train shed.
Shouldn't cost that much.
Put a small AC in the wall.

Do you have to bury the power down there or can you just string a power line out? 

YOU GOT THE SHED NOW FINISH IT!


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## zorba

8 months later, any more progress?


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## Big Ed

zorba said:


> 8 months later, any more progress?


Last time he logged on was 12/1 2011.

I think his wife made him sell the trains and turn the shed into a storage facility.
Some let there wives walk all over them.
They are surly Woosiewhipped.


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## zorba

thats why mine is being done at my dads house


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