# Ho or N scale?



## traindude2002 (Nov 21, 2015)

I have a 4ft by 8ft table and I dont know if I should use a N scale or a Ho scale. I am all about detail and I am going to be making a passenger route through a city area using an FP40 and 6-11 Bi level passenger cars. This is my secound time making a railroad but the first time was when I was 11, I used a Lionel polar express o gauge on the same 4 by 8 tabe and did not realise how there was no room, I have done my research and now know more. Please give me your personal opinon below if I should use a HO scale or N scale.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, thanks for opening THAT can of worms! This ought to get interesting. 

If I were going to run that long passenger equipment in that small space, I would definitely go with N. The largest curves you can do in a 4x8 are just barely adequate for long passenger cars. Just make sure your eyes and fingers are up to the challenge of the small size.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Well said.For operating long passenger cars on a 4X8,HO isn't an option.Even N scale eats up a lot of landscape in no time.Then you may be faced with another problem...finding the desired models in N scale.

If possible,an around the room shelf layout would fit your needs better.


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## daveh219 (Sep 16, 2012)

Can of worms??? What can of worms!!! I have both...a 3x6 N scale triple track and a 4x8 HO. Not a problem for me. I run what I feel like. But with that said I agree with Jake and CT...your radius will be better with N scale. Let us know and as always pictures are always expected...and WANTED. Welcome and good luck...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I agree with CTvalley and Jake; If you are limited to 4 X 8 layout you can
have a lot more railroad in N Scale. One factor that you should
consider though; The small size of the locos and cars. There will
be the need for maintenance and repairs and some of us have
failing eyesight and shaky fingers. By all means go to a hobby
shop or someone's N layout. Check the N locos and what you
may have to do for them. If this seems a major factor
for you, you can still get a single HO track main with 22" curves on
your layout, and several additional yard and spur tracks on the
inside of the oval.

I had a 4 X 8 N scale with a double track main, a helix to a second
level, a nice yard and other interesting tracks, in an apartment years ago,
but I was in my early 30s at the time. Even work on HO can be a trial for me
now.

Don


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## traindude2002 (Nov 21, 2015)

Worry not, for Kato has the models I need for my plan. Little Expensive but the quality looks great on them


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I do both...in less than 4' x 5'...


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## traindude2002 (Nov 21, 2015)

I have to thank you for putting up this image, this gives me a reprensintation of what it would look like if I used HO.


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## traindude2002 (Nov 21, 2015)

unfortuneitlay I have a 4X8 table so I cant use an around the room style. And I have no empty rooms.


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## traindude2002 (Nov 21, 2015)

I will post pictures but im not going to be able to start this project until after the holidays because of budget issues so you may be waiting a while for pictures.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

It actually closes up into its own piece of furniture that I built...


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

If you have sufficient space to access the layout from either side,you may want to consider adding an extra six inches or a foot to either or both sides and/or ends.Even six inches can make a huge difference when designing the track plan.

There are hundreds of 4X8 N scale track plans available and a good many of them are excellent designs that will suit a majority of modelers.However,as good as they are,most have a major flaw for guys like me who like big steamers pulling heavyweight Pullman cars...too small curve radiuses.While four axle diesels like 9 3/4 in. radiuses,six axle units will be happier with eleven inch curves and large steamers will perform and look better on 15+ in. radiuses.

A 4X8 will allow for nice curves if an island design,but if you have to push the layout to a wall,you'll find that four feet is way too far to work on.In fact,30 to 36 inches is pretty much the deepest you can have workable depending on layout height and how tall you are.If you have to reduce,then curve radiuses become more critical...something to think about......


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Lots of people can and do use both scales. Even (as Shaygetz suggested) in a very small space.

That said, I would put an absolute minimum radius for a 12" passenger car in HO at 30". Sure, you might get lucky going smaller, but not likely. Even at 24", you'd need a wider table than 4'.


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I'll cast my vote for N scale. :thumbsup:



Brakeman Jake said:


> ... six axle units will be happier with eleven inch curves ...


I have six axle Atlas locomotives on an 11" radius test track right now, and I wouldn't try to run them on anything tighter than that.



Brakeman Jake said:


> A 4X8 will allow for nice curves if an island design,but if you have to push the layout to a wall,you'll find that four feet is way too far to work on.


This always has been a problem for me. A 3 foot reach is my max without accidentally damaging whatever I am leaning over. 

-Florida RR-


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

My space for my layout is just over 5 x 9, so I'm using a 4 x 8 plywood sheet covered with foam. I built a sturdy frame for it and mounted that on casters so I can pull it away from the wall to do work, and push it back when done. I'm VERY slowly building an N-scale mostly passenger setup. Sounds like I might have to make some plan revisions based on comments here regarding turn radii...I think I'm too tight on some of them!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

It all depends on what you intend to operate.Like I stated earlier,many 4X8 plans are based on 9 3/4 rad. curves (Atlas plans for instance) and would be just great if you run four axle F units and short passenger cars,but if you want to run scale trains that feature eighty foot heavyweights pulled by six axle E units or steamers,you'll need larger curves like twelve+ inches so that they look nicer and don't derail frequently.

The larger the curves,the better.The same concern applies for climbs where many 4X8 plans feature pretty steep climbs where a lone loco can't pull more than 4-5 cars uphill.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*4x8 layout with long passenger cars*



traindude2002 said:


> I have a 4ft by 8ft table and I dont know if I should use a N scale or a Ho scale. I am all about detail and I am going to be making a passenger route through a city area using an FP40 and 6-11 Bi level passenger cars. This is my secound time making a railroad but the first time was when I was 11, I used a Lionel polar express o gauge on the same 4 by 8 tabe and did not realise how there was no room, I have done my research and now know more. Please give me your personal opinon below if I should use a HO scale or N scale.


traindude;

If you are lucky enough to have a train/hobby store nearby, go and look at HO, N, and Z scales. Z scale has the advantage and/or disadvantage of being smaller than N scale.
On the plus side, you could build quite an empire in 4x8' with Z scale. On the minus side, Z scale is more expensive, and has less selection available. The selection won't matter if they do have what you want. I have seen some nice passenger cars in Z, but I don't know which era, and railroad you are looking for.
Being smaller also means that the handling and tiny parts issues of the previous posts will still be something you should consider. To whatever extent you may be uncomfortable working with N scale, the same thing, only more so, will be true in Z.
I model a primarily passenger layout, with 80' long cars and steam locos in N scale. I found that my 12" min. radius would not accommodate a Mikado very well, (derailed frequently) and ended up going to a 16" min. radius, which works fine.
I hope you get the chance to see and touch all three scales, that will help you decide which one is right for you.

Good Luck with whichever you choose.

Traction Fan


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