# Help!!!!



## mmarlin77 (Mar 15, 2015)

I have laid my cork road bed twice now and every time that I finish and lay the track there are gaps and where the track meets in the rail joiners in places its not level. The train goes over it but it's not even and perfect like it was when I laid the track out just by itself. I am getting really frustrated and don't know what to do.

Thanks, 

Matt:dunno:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, knowing a little more about what you're doing would help. And you're right to be concerned: poor trackwork is the number one cause of operating problems like derailments and uncouplings.

That said, it's kind of hard to determine what you did. I'm a foam roadbed guy, but the concepts are similar. Forget the track for a minute. Is your cork smooth and lump free? How did you fasten it down? Was your adhesive smooth before you stuck the roadbed on it? If you used a water-based adhesive, is the cork swelling and deforming because of it? Did you split the roadbed so that the beveled side is out, and it bends around curves without kinking? Are you trying not to align butts in the roadbed with joints in the track? Did you smooth the top with a sanding block to eliminate imperfections?

So let's now assume that your roadbed has gone down dead flat. Are you using track nails to fasten your track down? If so, are you pushing them in to far, to where they're bowing your track? Are all your rails properly engaged with the joiners on both sides?

As you can see, there are a lot of places where you can go wrong. Start at the beginning, take things slow, and at each step, make sure everything is dead flat. As soon as something isn't, stop and figure out why. You'll get it licked - three times a charm.


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## mmarlin77 (Mar 15, 2015)

I built my table and then put down a 2" sheet of pink foam. I used a then line of low temp glue to lay the cork. I sanded the top and sides to make it all smooth then took a shop vac and sucked up any dust or what not on the table and road bed. I used yellow wood glue as instructed to do by the guy at the train hobby store to lay the track.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I personally would have used latex adhesive caulk for both applications, but that doesn't make what you did wrong. However, in my experience, hot glue can leave lumps behind. Carpenter's glue is water based. Is it making your cork swell?

And is it safe to say that you're not using track nails with the carpenter's glue? When using track nails on foam, it's very easy to set them too deep and bow your track.

if you're dead sure that the cork was level before you put the track on it, then it's either one of these two, or you're not being careful when you assemble your track. Are you assembling track and then lifting it to put the glue under it?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You used one thin line of glue? Did you split your cork down the middle?


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## mmarlin77 (Mar 15, 2015)

I am taking the glue in little beads and then taking an old credit card and spreading the glue down the cork. Then I take the track one piece at a time, lay it down on the cork line up the rain joiners and then slide it together. I just don't get it, when I put the track together with out the cork on top of the foam, it was perfect, add cork board, everything goes wrong. lol Do I even need the cork, I mean can I just glue the track to the foam itself and then ballast? I know that's not prototypical but at $30 a box for cork well, ya know lol


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## mmarlin77 (Mar 15, 2015)

yes I split the cork, used a thin line on each side of the center line


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## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

"Do I even need the cork?"
No, it's your railroad do what you want!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Could it be that the 'springiness' of the track is pulling
it up from the cork after you glue it? It sometimes is
necessary to put a weight on the track until the glue sets.

Don


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

So how bad is it? Have you tried running a train to see if you get derailments? When I laid my cork there are imperfections in where to pieces meet, especially where I had to cut it for turnouts. But my trains still run fine, and any issues I've had to fix were the result of something other than the roadbed.

And no, you don't need roadbed. It's mostly just for a sense of realism, especially if you plan on adding ballast later and want the look of the raised track.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

hokie1525 said:


> So how bad is it? Have you tried running a train to see if you get derailments? When I laid my cork there are imperfections in where to pieces meet, especially where I had to cut it for turnouts. But my trains still run fine, and any issues I've had to fix were the result of something other than the roadbed.
> 
> And no, you don't need roadbed. It's mostly just for a sense of realism, especially if you plan on adding ballast later and want the look of the raised track.


It's also for sound absorbsion. 

I'm wondering if the low temp glue the cork is fastened down with was lumpy and slightly hardened when the cork went down. If the cork is affecting the track alignment, you should be able to see those imperfections in the cork surface without the track installed. You could always put some 60 grit on a 1x4 block of wood (I like the adhesive backed discs) and sand the surface smooth.

I used Alenes tacky glue (available cheap at Walmart in big bottles) both to glue the cork down to the subroadbed (in my case plyboard) and to glue the track to the cork.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

I sanded the top, bevels, and rounded the corners with an 80 grit sanding block before I ever nailed the track in place. I have had no roadbed related issues for over 2 years in a garage layout.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Got any pictures of the different steps? They might help us diagnose the problem.

For me, I glue the cork roadbed down (to my particle-board base) with small amounts of white glue diluted 1:1 with water (50% mixture). It holds fine, but can be ripped up fairly easily if necessary.

Then I use just rail joiners and track nails to hold the track in place. Eventually I will solder some of the joints and ballast the track. The ballast glue will help solidify the track. But I won't do this until I have completed all track laying and run all of my trains on the layout multiple times to test the track.

One other idea. I found one joint that was not a perfectly smooth transition. I was able to bend ends of the track just a little to make a smooth transition. Then I drilled some additional holes in ties and added more track nails to solidify the joint in its new position.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm kind of spitting in the dark here, because as far as I can tell you're doing everything right.

One other idea comes to mind. Are you by any chance using a mishmash of different manufacturer's track with different tie thicknesses, and perhaps with different code rails mixed together? When the track is just sitting there, the taller pieces might hold the shorter pieces close to the right height. Once you glue it down, all the ties have to sit on the cork, and the difference between the heights comes into play?

Like I said, spitballing a bit...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

One of my first thoughts was bowing of the track due to overinserted track nails. While the OP has never specifically stated that he wasn't using them, it appears from the discussion of gluing that he isn't.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm getting a sense of overkill here. You've got 2" foam and then cork on top of that. I wouldn't even bother with the foam personally. Put the cork straight on your table, that's what many do. I think you might have an incomparability issue with your method, it sounds like the glue may not be drying fast enough causing the track cork bed to lift which can be a problem with PVA type glue on foam.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> I'm getting a sense of overkill here. You've got 2" foam and then cork on top of that. I wouldn't even bother with the foam personally. Put the cork straight on your table, that's what many do. I think you might have an incomparability issue with your method, it sounds like the glue may not be drying fast enough causing the track cork bed to lift which can be a problem with PVA type glue on foam.


The 2" foam is nice if you want to do things like rivers or add a recessed turntable.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Also, unless I misunderstood, the PVA glue is being used between the cork and the track. For the foam, he's using "low temp glue" -- I'm guessing a hot glue of some kind.

That said, I still think Cycleops is right on the money that it's a moisture issue.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Do you need to use cork?*

Reading through this thread, I feel your frustration with things changing on you for no apparent reason. Several have answered your question saying it's OK to lay track directly on the foam sheet. I agree that it's fine to do this, but if by any chance you want to have the realistic look of raised roadbed, there are other options. First if you lay the track directly on your foam base, you can cut drainage ditches on both sides of the track add ballast and you're done.
Second, there are other types of roadbed. Foam roadbed has already been mentioned. Modelers have also used wood roadbed, and the AMI Co's "instant roadbed" which is a tacky tar like substance that acts as roadbed and track adhesive in one.
Cork has been the most common for decades and has worked well. Like the other experienced modelers on this forum, I'm not able to understand what makes your experience different.
Moisture is certainly possible. I make my wood roadbed from 1/8" luan plywood and coat it with latex house paint to avoid warping. Even if we get everything flat; when we start spraying, or dropping water on the ballast & nearby scenery; there's always some possibility of water getting in where it's not supposed to be. Hence the house paint coating.

Questions:
What color is the foam sheet you have as a layout base? Pink or blue extruded (hard) foam is good. White bead board (soft & flaky) not so good.

What kind of track are you using? Is it sectional with straight and rigid curved sections less than a foot long? Or is it flex track? This comes in three foot lengths, and can be bent to any curve. 
What brand of track are you using? Is all your track the same brand? Can you describe the track? Gold or silver colored rails? Plastic or cardboard ties? Can you post a photo or two to show us the foam base and track? That would help a lot.

I hope,with answers to these questions, or better some photos,we can help.

Traction fan


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The OP hasn't been here since 3/17. I wonder if he found a solution?


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## rhikdavis (May 19, 2015)




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