# I need to fatten up!



## whurd (Mar 17, 2011)

OK that got your attention! 
You all might have seen my new addition of the tanker cars. Well they are too light. Derail very easy even at the slowest of speeds. Maybe there is a bump or two to smooth out, but I know I need to add some weight. 
Sooo with that being said what is your suggestions?
I thought of....

Pennies... I figure it each tanker will hold about 15 or so pennies. With it to scale, that should be about the right value of the fuel. Haha!!! Then I thought thats sort of wasting money. 

BB's... but not sure how to glue/hold them in place so they dont roll back n forth in the tanker throwing off the balance. 

Kitty litter wet with glue. Unsed of course!!!  Not sure if it would be ENOUGH weight.

Modeling clay. Thought maybe using that with BB's to make a holder so they fill and fit the tanker.


I read somewhere about smashed fishing sinkers. Again, how to place them to balance the car best.

I saw post about regular freight cars, and gondolas, but not on tankers. So what do you all knowing wize men suggest? 

Oh yea and I will be adding steel wheels to them as well. This is step one.
Thanks guys!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Good title for an attention getter!:thumbsup:

You got me on this, how about you melt some lead then pour it in and let it harden? (might melt the tank too though.)hwell:

How about some lead paint?:laugh:

Stick on tire weights inside?


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

big ed said:


> Good title for an attention getter!:thumbsup:
> 
> You got me on this, how about you melt some lead then pour it in and let it harden? (might melt the tank too though.)hwell:
> 
> ...


Or Bondo. Auto body filler?? I have used bondo to fill a cement silo made of 1 inch PVC pipe. Mix small amounts with a touch of water to thin it. It has a good weight to it. It does get hot if you use too much accelerator. 
How big is the hole you have to get it through?


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

big ed said:


> Stick on tire weights inside?


Now *that's* a good idea, Ed! :thumbsup:

They're concentrated weight that you can trim to any desired length. And you can stick them at the bottom interior of the tank to keep the center of gravity nice and low.

Greg


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## TapRoot (Oct 3, 2010)

sand?


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## whurd (Mar 17, 2011)

Now that I took the plunge and took one apart, I guess I can add in wheel weights, the stick on type.
But now here's the million dollar question.... How fat do I make them? Whats the total weight I should aim for?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Believe it or not...the least expensive and most effective way to add weight to cars is to use pennies...do the math.:thumbsup:

Kind of a sad commentary on our money....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've added 4oz of weight to a bunch of O-scale cars, I found that's a nice amount, and the weights conveniently fit for the most part. Put the weight as low as possible and evenly distributed on the car for the best stability.

I used 1oz wheel weights with the self-adhesive, makes them easy to install.

I'm guessing for HO, you'd probably want to add less, maybe get the 1/2oz stick-on weights and use four of those.

*shaygetz* is right, the weights cost me close to $1 a car. However, I'd need a lot of pennies to do the job.

Here's a typical installation for me.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

I am curious if you guys are pulling grades with weights?  I need the stability too but I have a few climbs on my layout!


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## Xnats (Dec 5, 2010)

Between the new metal wheels and a penny or two on top of each truck, you should be good. If you are still having the same problem it would be coming from the truck itself. Some of the older and/or lower end units have poor trucks that bind just a little to much. You don't want to add to much weight that the engine can not pull them. 
my thoughts at least


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

There is actually a standard weight that each car should weigh in order to maintain smooth operation. I have heard some say make all the cars weigh the same using your heaviest as a base line.

I think the real standard calls for so much weigh for so much length of car.
*O and On3 gauge*

The optimal weight for O gauge rolling stock is calculated by adding 5 ounces plus 1 ounce per inch of the rail car. A 10-inch car should therefore weight 15 ounces. On3 is calculated by beginning with1.5 ounces and adding .75 ounces per inch of car length.


*S and Sn3 gauge*

For both S and Sn3 gauge rolling stock, begin with a base figure of 2 ounces and add .5 ounces per inch of car length.


*HO and HOn3*

HO gauge rolling stock optimal weight can be found by beginning with a base weight of 1 ounce and adding 1/2 ounce per inch of car length. For HOn3, begin with .75 ounces and add .375 ounces per inch of car length.


*N gauge*

To determine optimal weight for N guage cars, start with an initial weight of 1/2 ounce plus .15 ounces per inch.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Funny thing, on the Lionel cars I've added most of the weights on, they end up being 12 or 13 ounces. That's why I add the weights. I didn't realize there was a "standard", I just added enough weight to give the car more stability but not be too heavy.

FWIW, with the Lionel cars with the riveted trucks, one other mod I make is to tighten up the rivets so they don't rock as much. Some of the cars wobble really bad from the factory, I like to minimize the rocking, which also helps the stability and tendency to derail.

The basic stuff I do to a car to prepare it for use.


Lubricate the wheels/axles
Tighten up the truck mounting, still maintaining free swiveling.
Add weight for stability if necessary. This is usually just the ones with plastic trucks, the diecast trucks add the required weight.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

When it comes to weight, not all US pennies are equal ...


•The Lincoln, Memorial Reverse penny (1959 to mid 1982) weighs 3.11 grams.
•The Lincoln, Memorial Reverse penny (mid 1982 to present) weighs 2.5 grams.

So, if you go the penny route, use pennies prior to 1982 !!!

TJ


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## whurd (Mar 17, 2011)

OK if I got this right then, from NIMT.... 


> HO and HOn3
> HO gauge rolling stock optimal weight can be found by beginning with a base weight of 1 ounce and adding 1/2 ounce per inch of car length. For HOn3, begin with .75 ounces and add .375 ounces per inch of car length.


The car is 5 1/2" long. 
So start with one oz and add 1/2 per inch. So I would be adding an additional 3.75 oz to the car for weight. 
Am I getting the formula right?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Absolutely ! :thumbsup:


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## whurd (Mar 17, 2011)

OK Lemme throw another one at you wise men!
I have a good looking dummy engine I would like to add to the line up. It too needs to gain weight. It too will jump rails as its very lightt.
Same idea? Add the stick on weights? 
Ahh but how much?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

If the dummy has plastic wheels stay with the formula for cars, it's safer and what standards recommend. If steel wheels you can safely make it the same weight as the pulling loco, but remember it is just dead weight.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd add some weight, then see how the cars track. I know that after I bulked up my light Lionel cars, a long train of over 20 of them ran very smooth and didn't derail over the old O27 switches, even it higher speeds. It makes a big difference for some situations.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

grjohn,
I also had some derailment issues with some light, el cheapo tank cars.
After reading in a model rr magazine that the optimum weight for HO was between 3 and 4 ounces, I weighed all my rolling stock on a digital food scale. It's accurate to .1 ounce.
I then used gorilla glue to attach pennies to the underbelly of the light cars to bring them up to at least 3 ounces total weight.
Voila!! :thumbsup: No more derailments since! 
Well spent pennies, right?
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I brought my O-scale cars up to between 10 and 12 ounces after adding the weights, makes a really big difference. I find that when a really light car is in the middle of a train, the pull of the cars behind it actually just flip it off the track.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

While I realize that the NMRA "weight per car length" guideline is often used as the acceptable standards, I would tout a different approach ...

One adds weight to a car, lower the center of gravity, and minimize the "tipping moment" required to derail (or tip) a car's wheels off the track. (Often created via centrifugal force when goind around a turn.) Though the NMRA guideline offers a first-pass, generic good rule of thumb, in fact, the as-manufactured weight distribution of all cars are different. (Just as they are with automobiles, for example ... a Honda Civic sedan vs. a large GMC SUV.) So ...

Why not perform an actual tipping test? Get a length of straight track ... 9" or so. Put you car on the track. Then slowly, raise one rail of the track off the ground (keeping the other rail -- or lower tie corners, really) on the ground. Use a little ruler or tickmarks on a piece of paper to map how far your tilting the track ... 10 degrees, 20 degrees, etc.

Eventually, the car will fall over off of the track (on to a cushioned landing, hopefully!). But, importantly, the angle of track tilt at which a car falls over should be about the same for all well-ballasted cars. If one car falls off to early (at a small angle) it needs to have a lower center of gravity / more weight. If one car can "ride the rail" to a very large angle, it's likely that it's center of gravity is already very low, and that weight can be removed.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

As I mentioned previously, another factor besides weight is the sloppiness of the truck mounting. Many Lionel cars have a very sloppy truck rivet job, and it does wonders for the stability for me to tighten them up, then add the weights.

Another factor besides the tipping factor is when the car is in the middle of a train and there are a bunch of cars behind it. The total weight behind can cause a light car to derail much faster than a heavier one. That bites me more often than the CG of the car, though that's obviously important too.

I mount the weights as low as practical, on the bottom if possible, otherwise on the floor of boxcars and passenger cars with sculpted bottom plates.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

This is indeed a "weighty" issue


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## whurd (Mar 17, 2011)

Well I'm glad i was able to bring forth a worthy discussion about being large and in charge!
Still need to buy the weights... and playing around with pennies I found I cannot fill the tanker with them and reassemble the tanker. The stock weights get in the way. Not going to remove those!
I also just got in new stuff from ebay for track building. Hopefullt this weekend I can lay down some rail and expiriment some. I'll post picts soon!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's the weights that I use: http://patchboy.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=P&Category_Code=3-7


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd add some weight, then see how the cars track. I know that after I bulked up my light Lionel cars, a long train of over 20 of them ran very smooth and didn't derail over the old O27 switches, even it higher speeds. It makes a big difference for some situations.



So are you going to stop ragging on the O/27 switches now?
Or do they still suck?:laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They still suck.  The trains do go over them a bit better with weight, but I'm totally sold on O31 or larger at this point.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> They still suck.  The trains do go over them a bit better with weight, but I'm totally sold on O31 or larger at this point.


Are you really giving them a fair review? Since you don't have your track sitting on a firm base.

I think they may work a little better when they are mounted on firm ground.
Instead of sitting on carpet.

Now....that said,

Did you start building yet?
Why not?
I have an excuse I work.

ha ha beat ya to the punch.....:laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Buzz, wrong! The O27 layout is on a 4x8 plywood board, it's not the little test track I have in my workshop/office. 

I was working on the planning of the real layout today, taking dimensions and trying to figure where my ceiling train will be routed.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Buzz, wrong! The O27 layout is on a 4x8 plywood board, it's not the little test track I have in my workshop/office.
> 
> I was working on the planning of the real layout today, taking dimensions and trying to figure where my ceiling train will be routed.



Then,

:ttiwwop::ttiwwop:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Pictures of what? The switches are sitting 1/2" plywood on a frame, not much to see. I've tried several different models, I generally have similar results with all of them. The 022 switches laying on my carpet work just fine for the same engines and rolling stock.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I haven't started weighting my cars yet, I plan to. I was going to use 
pennies and still might on some cars. What I wanted to add was that the
date of the penny makes a difference in weight. Its true. A penny minted
before 1982 is almost 1/3 heavier than a penny minted after 1982. So it
will take fewer pennies to weight your car if you use pennies minted
before 1982.

What does a penny weigh?

Answer
It depends on the date. 

•Indian Head pennies dated 1864 to 1909 weigh 3.11 grams.
•The Lincoln, Wheat Ears Reverse penny weighs 3.11 grams except for steel cents made only in 1943 that weigh 2.67 grams.
•The Lincoln, Memorial Reverse penny (1959 to mid 1982) weighs 3.11 grams.
•The Lincoln, Memorial Reverse penny (mid 1982 to present) weighs 2.5 grams.

LOL, found this somewhere on the net.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Uhh ... Did you see my Post #13, above?!?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

safe to say I didn't see it.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Man I never knew about the penny weight!  Interesting. Man I didn't think adding pennies could be so technical.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

If the IRS gets wind of us using pennies to weight our rolling stock we'll be taxed for hiding funds :laugh:
Bob


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