# Introduction & Powered vs. Non-Powered Question



## MiamiMikePA (Jul 23, 2014)

Hey Guys,

My name is Mike and I live in NEPA. Use to mess around a bit with HO scale trains back in my younger days with my Uncle, but after losing everything in a flood I haven't in years (probably 20-25).

I have a son who turned 3 in April and a soon to be step daughter who is going to turn 3 in August. After being in a local train shop I have decided to buy them a Lionel O Gauge train set for under the tree this year. I grew up with one under the tree and would like for them to do the same. Probably going with a Polar Express or Harry Potter set to start, but I am also considering the possibility of getting back into the hobby and leaving a layout up year around in my "man cave."

While in the shop I saw an engine I really liked, it was similar to the HO one I had growing up, but appeared to be more modernized. Not knowing anything about it I started trying to find it online and have determined it is the Pennsylvania ES44AC. It seems as though there are 2 different versions of this engine and am curious what is the difference. One is listed as having Legacy and costs about $450, while the other is listed as Non-Powered and costs about $250. Obviously the Legacy one has more features, but I was curious what exactly the difference is? What does the term Non-Powered fully mean? Does it just not have the lights and sounds or does it not have a motor at all? If Non-Powered means it doesn't have a motor at all what is the point of it?

Looking forward to chatting with you guys and picking your brain's!

Thanks
Mike


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Welcome to the site.

Simply put it is just for looks no motor.
A lot of real trains ran A-B-A units like these,

This is an A-B unit the A has the cab then they would hook another A unit and the whole thing would be called an A-B-A unit. The real ones were all powered.









The ones today (models) non powered are just for looks some have sound in them.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Here is an A-B-B-A TRAIN,
It has 2 A's (one at each end) and 2 B's (in the middle). Lots of pulling power.









The reasons railroads ordered B units included the fact that a B unit was slightly cheaper. With no driving cab, B units lack windshields, crew seats, radios, heating, and air conditioning. Some B units had to be hooked to the A's in order for them to operate.


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## MiamiMikePA (Jul 23, 2014)

Thanks for all of the info Ed I really appreciate it. Looks like I'm going to have to buck up for the Legacy one as I really like it! This is the one I was looking at...



The model is listed as being O-54. Approx how big of a table would that require to do just a simple circle? Or O-60 using FastTrack?

Thanks again!
Mike


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

MiamiMikePA said:


> Thanks for all of the info Ed I really appreciate it. Looks like I'm going to have to buck up for the Legacy one as I really like it! This is the one I was looking at...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


O/54 is a circle of 54", you should have 3 inch more so you're not sitting on the edge of the board while running.
If you can O/72 is better, a lot of new big trains need a minimum of O/72 to run.
O/72 would be a circle of 72".
O/60 is 60". 
Watch the specs on what you buy, it should be listed on the box what the minimum track size should be.

The largest track you can go with the space you have is better, so you don't have to worry about the size of the train.

Watch out, some O trains operate on 2 rail too. Won't work on 3 rail.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

MTH also makes ne of those engines. I don't have either so I can't really offer an opinion but there is a review on You-tube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0N3kxIFD_o

if your interested?


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

Might I suggest eBay if you don't mind used track and saving money you might even find new track for a good price. That's where I got all my curved track from. I'm into ho scale tho. Welcome back to the hobby!!!! Also look in to DCC if you been out of the hobby and only remember the ones from when you were a kid then DCC will blow your mind


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

Dc is like 3rd world stuff now


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Well, that's prolly a good way to insult 75% of model railroaders...
I'm sure you didn't mean it....


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

I grew up on DC and have switched to DCC. I mean 3rd world because DCC is so much more advance. If your old and set in your ways. Then to each there own. I'm just trying to let this guy know how much this hobby has improved since he last ran a train. Sorry to the 75%. Hope you don't take it the wrong way. I started with it n made the expensive switch. And I'll never go back. EVER!!!


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## MiamiMikePA (Jul 23, 2014)

Thanks for all the info guys!

So far I have the Lionel Pennsylvania ES44AC and matching caboose on hold for me at my local shop. Going to pick it up next week some time. I've decided to go with the Fastrack. Going to build a 6' x 10' platform to start with a very simple oval. Still deciding on the transformer, but I think I've narrowed it to either the Lionel ZW-L or MTH Z-4000. Also, once Lionel releases more Legacy Command Sets I'm first on the list to get one. Will take some time, but it's all starting to come together. In the mean time I'm in the process of building a 6' x 4 1/2' platform for the Harry Potter set for the kids, which will also be for our Christmas tree.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

BNSFcountryCA said:


> Dc is like 3rd world stuff now













MiamiMikePA said:


> Thanks for all the info guys!
> 
> So far I have the Lionel Pennsylvania ES44AC and matching caboose on hold for me at my local shop. Going to pick it up next week some time. I've decided to go with the Fastrack. Going to build a 6' x 10' platform to start with a very simple oval. Still deciding on the transformer, but I think I've narrowed it to either the Lionel ZW-L or MTH Z-4000. Also, once Lionel releases more Legacy Command Sets I'm first on the list to get one. Will take some time, but it's all starting to come together. In the mean time I'm in the process of building a 6' x 4 1/2' platform for the Harry Potter set for the kids, which will also be for our Christmas tree.



I would go with the MTH Z-4000, like mentioned, it costs a lot less. 
You should be set with that. 
Though if you get a lot of accessories and lights on the layout another way to power them would be better then to take power away from the trains. Just add a separate one for them. 

But that transformer should power a lot of different things. You should be set for a while. 
Cheaper then the ZW-L too.


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