# A old Idea?



## mojotrain (Jul 24, 2012)

I bet this has been thought of before.

As I wrote in a earlier post it occurred to me that the way this hobby works out, most of us, whether securing these little play things, either by buying or by inheritance, are nothing more than temporary caretakers. We, sooner or later will die and not wanting to take them with us will see that they are passed on or sold. None-the-less our "stuff" will outlast us. Our "stuff" will become history.

Maybe the desolation of the area in which I live brings the thought of, where did this little toy began it's historic journey? Who has played with it toy and where did they live. I look at every pre-war, post-war unit I have and these things come to my mind. 

No doubt some others wonder as I have. Wouldn't it be neat if with every car you bought, either stuck to or tucked neatly inside you could find, if nothing more, a name, a address and a date.


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

Toy?????


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

Wingnut,

I think Mojotrain is talking about tinplate and such. 

Pookybear


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## mojotrain (Jul 24, 2012)

pookybear said:


> Wingnut,
> 
> I think Mojotrain is talking about tinplate and such.
> 
> Pookybear


Compared to most on this site I'm a novice at collecting, operating and evidently the practiced terminology. I'll learn even at 75 but the fact that my post encompassed these treasures and a way of passing on the history of each piece seemed to get in the way of calling these items something that they aren't.

I have a few pre-war, several hundred post-war and several hundred modern piece's and all of then are Lionel. I'll come back to this site from time to time for education purposes but for now will refrain from starting or adding to a discussion.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I like your idea. I have some Toy trucks and Buses that are prewar and I will put a note in them. I bought a few locomotive at a local train show. I did not realize how well the detailing was on them untill after I got them home. Now I wish I could talk to the man that did the work so I could tell hime how much I like them.

Sorry to hear that you are going to refrain for posting. I hope you will reconsider. I am now going to play with my toy trains. AKA( operate the *Southern Atlantic Seaboard Railway)*


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Very interesting thinking, Mojotrain.

As one who has bought most rolling stock and layout
buildings from the used market, I have often wondered,
who owned these things before me. 

It's even somewhat emotional to handle a scratch built
building, for instance, and consider the enjoyment
some modeller no longer with us had in creating this.

Many of the used freight cars that I have were lovingly
'weathered' and quite expertly to boot. What happy hours
'he' no doubt had doing it.

I have wondered if any of you other guys, have had this
experience and how it affected you.

Don


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

Mojotrain, please dont be afraid to post, you have a wonderful idea! I think many of us forget, as we are cleaning, oiling, tuning, restoring, and protecting these sometimes 100 year old pieces of history, that they started life as a child's toy. They spent most of their early life on the living room floor while small hands made them come to life. Then were stuffed in a cardboard box and relegated to an attic or basement as the child grew up and lost interest. I like to remember the Christmas morning when I received my first train and think about where the rest of my trains started their life. And I often have to remind myself, as my 5 year old grandson joins me in the train room, that they are still toys that need to be enjoyed. Even though I hover protectively over them while he does.
Randy


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

oops double posted.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

mojotrain said:


> Compared to most on this site I'm a novice at collecting, operating and evidently the practiced terminology. I'll learn even at 75 but the fact that my post encompassed these treasures and a way of passing on the history of each piece seemed to get in the way of calling these items something that they aren't.
> 
> I have a few pre-war, several hundred post-war and several hundred modern piece's and all of then are Lionel. I'll come back to this site from time to time for education purposes but for now will refrain from starting or adding to a discussion.


THEY ARE ALL TOYS! 
Some ..........just don't think so. :smokin:
Maybe? They were just kidding around with you? Maybe? :dunno:

I have a LOT OF TOYS AND I AM PROUD OF IT. 

Don't let a few stop you from participating, your ideal has been mentioned before to me when I started this thread, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15024


Your right, who had and where has this train been would be nice to know for someone like you or me who find it in the future. Think a 100 years from now someone will think where has this TOY from the past been.

A very easy way would be to mark the inside of the shell or tape a small note on it for the future.

Now I bet some rivet counter is saying WHAT MARK THE INSIDE! You will take away from the value!
To them I would say screw you, and go count some rivets.:cheeky4: 
I will tell how I feel. :smokin:

Keep on adding and starting discussion, that is how a forum thrives.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

I do make a difference between "Toys" and models. Most models will not stand up to
the abuse of kids. Parts are scale and thus fragile. However, as most people know its
all tinplate at my house. So the "Toys" rule the playground over here. Models are nice
but I am sure I would get caught up in "counting rivets" I am just that type of personality.
So I have avoided the whole issue with sticking to pre 50s tinplate and mostly pre 1930s 
for that matter.

Pookybear


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## oddtodd (Nov 5, 2013)

Wikipedia:A toy is any item that can be used for play. Adults use toys and play to form and strengthen social bonds, teach, remember and reinforce lessons from their youth, discover their identity, exercise their minds and bodies, explore relationships, practice skills, and decorate their living space.

Yep. They are toys. Even for a rivet counter.


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## Fackler Rebel (Oct 26, 2013)

I agree with you whole heartedly. I just got back into the Lionel O gauge or should I say 027 gauge trains that I played with when I was 7. Got one from Ebay and gave it to the grandson and then remember how much fun I had playing with it, so I got another off of Ebay for me. 8351 Alco Diesel Electrics and as I pull PM on my engines and rolling stock I too wonder what little boy or girl played with these toys and sometimes I wonder if some little kid in the future will be playing with this train and wondering the same thing. It is a grand thing to pass this on while we get the opportunity to be like little boys again. So don't stop.

Reb


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I have not done it with my trains, but when I have an antique car apart I write my name, email and date on the car somewhere that will not be seen until the next person takes it apart.


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## ZebraCakez (Mar 26, 2011)

As a carpenter in New England, I can tell you that when we are working on an old structure we tend to keep an eye out for ANYTHING that can give us clues into its history. Finding an artifact or some old documentation in a wall cavity or under a floorboard can really bring a project to life. Last year while renovating a carriage house that accompanies a large Victorian, I pulled up a stair tred and found the board where a previous carpenter had done all his math and some quick sketches. Not that it holds any real historical significance, but as my mentor and I stood there and read it, there was a definite significance to us. I picture him standing there five or six generations ago, the same dust particles wafting around in the air, the same light reflecting off the surface of Buzzards Bay and shining through the old double-hung windows. He stood there and did the exact same thing I do every day. Over the past two hundred years that building had been looked after by countless caretakers and craftsmen, and now it was our turn. That board is still under that set of stairs, as it has been for two centuries, but now it has a few new signatures on it.

This country is new, its young, and history here can be lost on people who live in our super modern society. If I were ever taking apart a pre-war piece and found a note inside I would be thrilled. It would bring a level of life to that piece that no glue-on detail or custom paint/weathering job ever could. That piece, regardless of its "listed value" in the price guides, would then be priceless to me.

I absolutely love the idea. History can only live on if somebody takes a minute to record it.

And as for the other side of this topic (the "toy" subject), it's all relative. I don't think that distinction is very important to make as long as you stay grounded. 

An example;

My other hobby is RC. My 1/8 scale buggy is worth MUCH more then my work truck (my real truck that I drive everyday). It would rival the most expensive brass locomotives in value. However, if I wake up in the middle of the night and my building is burning down, what do I grab on my way out? My buggy or my truck keys?

Any way you cut it, one is important and one is not. Monitary value only goes so far. Call it a toy, call it a model, call it whatever you want. Let a little child play with it and enjoy it, or stuff it high up on a shelf where the child can't even see it, its up to you. But don't try to act like in the grand scheme of things it holds any real importance, thats when you turn into "a grumpy old man who plays with toy trains". They're models, they're super-accurate, true-to-life scale representations of real prototypes.....but they will always be considered toys in some capacity. They're about relaxing and having fun.

And I like it that way.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

pookybear said:


> I do make a difference between "Toys" and models. Most models will not stand up to
> the abuse of kids. Parts are scale and thus fragile. However, as most people know its
> all tinplate at my house. So the "Toys" rule the playground over here. Models are nice
> but I am sure I would get caught up in "counting rivets" I am just that type of personality.
> ...


Most "toys" did not stand up to the abuse by kids, not just "models".
So what you are saying is that all postwar/modern trains are "models"? Whereas anything before 1950 and is tin plate are "toys"?

All in all your missing the whole point of Moe's thread.

Regardless "toy" or "models" wouldn't it be nice to mark them for the future?
Say for someone that might have them a 100 years from now.

Have you ever wondered who played with your tinplate "toys"?:smokin:


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Southern, I'm surprised you haven't found notes, letters, car paperwork in your tear downs. I found the original bill of sale for my 1949 Pontiac that had somehow ended up stuffed under the dash.

Zebra I'm in awe of the work done by carpenters in the past with just hand tools, they were true craftsmen. Norm Abrams with a brazillion dollars worth of new tools couldn't duplicate their work, IMHO and no offense to Norm.


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## ZebraCakez (Mar 26, 2011)

JackC said:


> Southern, I'm surprised you haven't found notes, letters, car paperwork in your tear downs. I found the original bill of sale for my 1949 Pontiac that had somehow ended up stuffed under the dash.
> 
> Zebra I'm in awe of the work done by carpenters in the past with just hand tools, they were true craftsmen. Norm Abrams with a brazillion dollars worth of new tools couldn't duplicate their work, IMHO and no offense to Norm.


The outside walls of that carriage house were all made up of 14 to 16 inch wide planks. Every single plank had the equally-spaced diagonal markings of a water-wheel powered band saw.

To stand in front of those boards and imagine them as full-tree sized blanks in a mill along the Mattapoisette river, being cut into shape with a massive water wheel two hundred years ago can be a powerful feeling.

Back then craftsmen were true craftsmen. Lazer levels and high-strength carbide-tipped blades weren't even science-fiction yet.


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## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

ZebraCakez said:


> The outside walls of that carriage house were all made up of 14 to 16 inch wide planks. Every single plank had the equally-spaced diagonal markings of a water-wheel powered band saw.
> 
> To stand in front of those boards and imagine them as full-tree sized blanks in a mill along the Mattapoisette river, being cut into shape with a massive water wheel two hundred years ago can be a powerful feeling.
> 
> Back then craftsmen were true craftsmen. Lazer levels and high-strength carbide-tipped blades weren't even science-fiction yet.


I used to own a house that was built in 1744. I marveled at how they built a board wall that was even and straight. I found that when they sawed the boards they were careful to keep them in the order that they were sawed in. When they put them up they turned every other board top to bottom so if the board were the slightest bit out of square they would compensate for each other.

The other amazing thing about the house was the foundation. It was made of large boulders and they made a flat wall on the inside. One of these rocks was almost 5 feet across. 
The foundation was many feet thick at the base and pyramided up to about 12 inches at the top. They then put quarried Granite set upright on top and a brick wall inside the Granite to keep out the drafts.
It turned out the way they accomplished it was to dig out the foundation in reverse, then waiting for winter when the ground was frozen and dragged the rocks in on the snow and dumped them into the hole. In the spring they dug out the dirt from the center of the cellar leaving a flat cellar wall.

K


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

big ed said:


> Have you ever wondered who played with your tinplate "toys"?:smokin:


Ahhh, nope. ¬.¬

Pookybear


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

JackC said:


> Southern, I'm surprised you haven't found notes, letters, car paperwork in your tear downs.


I have, there is to much to list hear but one of them was paper work showing that an old chevy truck (1953) was one that I had driven as a 16 year old! I did not even know that it was the same truck until it had been at the shop for six months.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

While I was working on my 60 Lincoln I found the original build sheet from the Wixom Plant assembly line. Had two sets of initials on it but no full names and I sat there for awhile trying to imagine these two people putting this car together as it moved slowly along the line. 53 years ago now. Pete


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