# DoubleDecker 4x8 Layout



## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Since I have too limited space to do all I want,I came up with the idea of a 2 story layout.Placing another 4x8 2ft. above the other. But don't know how steep the incline should be for train to make it up to next level.Or how big of hole or angle for train to clear and come out on top.
Any of you ever experimented with this or have any ideas?
For HO Scale


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Rule of thumb is no more than a 4% incline, and really if you want to run decent sized trains, I'd stick to no more than 3%. As far as the size of the hole, that's strictly going to be determined by the maximum height of the tallest car/engine and the angle of the incline.

BTW, a 4% incline is one inch up for every 25 inches forward. You also want to increase the horizontal travel for curves, since they place an additional load on the engine.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Rule of thumb is no more than a 4% incline, and really if you want to run decent sized trains, I'd stick to no more than 3%. As far as the size of the hole, that's strictly going to be determined by the maximum height of the tallest car/engine and the angle of the incline.
> 
> BTW, a 4% incline is one inch up for every 25 inches forward. You also want to increase the horizontal travel for curves, since they place an additional load on the engine.


This is just in my minds eye,but I see maybe ,going the 8' length,curve around and up to a 3' straight level section before curving and up to top. That should take some of the strain off the pull..........but then I have to get it back down some how.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, coming down isn't a problem, you can turn it around in a loop and come down the same track. 

If your second deck is say 7" taller than the first one, you'll need to go about 175" or about 15 feet to have a 4% grade, obviously farther if it's a shallower grade. I'm not sure what you're talking about for the curves and straights, but it's the grade that's the issue, not running flat.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

The problem with having the stacked 4x8 and building the helix up/down inside that 4x8 area is that you loose alot of usable space on the lower level. If you build a traditional helix, you'll lose one half of the lower board to stay within the 4% grade maximum. If you use the whole board to make your helix, you can easily stay under that 4% max, but you wont have any access to the inside of the board, so any sceniking you do will be for nothing.

My suggestion is to either build a helix along side the 4x8 stack (which would take up and additional 4x4 area) or use a train elevator or cassette system to move the trains from one level to another. Even with this setup, you'll still need more space along side the 4x8, but not nearly as much. My first choice would be the helix, but only cuz I think it would require alot less engineering to build.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Train elevator? Now, there's an advanced concept.  How exactly would you do such a thing?


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Well basically, it would involve a set of runner tracks on a frame with a "shelf" that moves up and down and counterweighted. I'll have to find some pics somewhere to show you what I mean, but I saw a few done in a magazine recently and I was mighty impressed with how little room it took and how many options there are depending on what you wanted to do with it.

Edit: I found the exact same one I saw.

http://www.citrusmodelrrclub.org/index1.htm


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Mercy!! Too much for me! The 4x4 area sounds more to my liking.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

OK ... here's a wild idea ...

Check out (via Google search, etc.) the "Falkirk Wheel" ... it's an incredibly cool lock spinny-elevator system used to lift/lower boats from one level of river systems to another. It's fully balanced with 2 opposing arms, and self-counterweighting. Though this is for boats, the overall concept could certainly be incorporated as a train lift. And, besides ... the thing just looks SO COOL!!! See video below, but lots of other 'net info available ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61KUGDWz2A&NR=1&feature=fvwp

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're right TJ, that's a WILD idea.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

zzlentz said:


> Mercy!! Too much for me! The 4x4 area sounds more to my liking.


Well that was just one of them. Another was a simple bracket and cassette setup that required the user to actually lift the train from one level to another. THe cassette was what held the train using aluminum angle stock as the rail and the falloff protection. Look up the Pendlenton cassette for more info. Or I added this link, but not sure if it will work. If it does, go to page 20.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0O...v=onepage&q=chris pendlenton cassette&f=false


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

I don't think the water would be good for your trains... 

Greg


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

I see what you are wanting to do Cabledawg. That would be cool.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm actually thinking of using that Pendlenton cassette for storage of our extra cars and locos when they arent on the layout. Right now we just put them carefully in a box that goes on the shelf under one table, but I've already broke a few things so using the cassette would prevent that (to some degree).


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