# Loco won't run..where to start



## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

Hey all. I just obtained a locomotive that doesn't work. Put it on tracks, other loco does work, where should I start with diagnosing it? Any thoughts? Forgive me for being totally NON Mechanical in skills and knowledge...lol I've been a cop too long...lol Do I take the engine out and re-hook it up???...I have no clue ...lol Bottom line is it doesn't run. Sorry if its a stupid basic question but I got the engine for cheap and I'd like to get it running again
Tell me what Info you need. Its a Mantua Pennsylvania "Diesel" style locomotive from the 70s I believe..


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## Pton46 (Mar 15, 2010)

Does it sound like it kind of works...like the wheels are stuck?

OIL, and clean ,OIL and clean and more OIL then clean....check this thread out...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=1882

This should get you started ....look for any loose wires and re solder etc...Up to you to depends on how much time and worth of the loco etc...hopefully it just needs a good clean and lube.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Shy of shooting it with a .44, are you able to take off the shell and expose the motor and trucks (mounts for wheels)? If so, maybe snap a few pics to post.

Any sounds/motions of life at all? Maybe if you give it a little push?

Is there a bulb/light in the loco? Does that look like it's getting power?

How dirty and/or tarnished are the contact wheels? If these are bad, then you might simply be not getting any significant power into the engine. Try cleaning with an eraser tip, q-tips, etc.

Next option to check is wiring (shorts, broken connections, etc.). After that, guys here might have to open things up a bit more to inspect and clean the motor armature and contact brushes. Explanations on that later ...

Post pics!

Good luck!

TJ


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

rambo_k9 said:


> Its a Mantua Pennsylvania "Diesel" style locomotive...


There's your problem right there...I wish I was kidding. These guys should be able to help but, again, don't expect a whole lot from that loco. Just figure out which drive you have from the how-to thread and follow it from there...Tyco and Mantuas are one in the same when it comes to diesels.

http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8166

http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6070


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

I'd start with buying a new loco. Mantua/Tyco just aren't the best. If on a budget, look for an Athearn Blue Box engine. Darn near bulletproof and usually pretty tolerably priced. Detail is fair, better than Mantua/Tyco, too. And detail parts are like Chevy small block engines.............everywhere, should you decide to spruce it up.

Bob


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## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

Will be going into exploratory surgery with it today....LOL Will have a report asap. As of now, no life at all. Thanks for the info and I'll be getting back to you!!!


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Well, one good thing, since there is "no life in it at all", you certainly can't hurt it.

Bob


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Da dadada...da dadada dummmmmm!*

The stories you will hear are true....the names have been changed to protect the innocent......it was a sunny day in the city of angels we were working out of Bunko....my names Friday my partners name is Gannon.....Sorry Rambo couldn't resist! Stationmaster Bob is right...you can't hurt it if its already dead. Think of that Loco as a gineau pig...if you get it to run using all your investigative powers....(Good work by Shaygetz)thats great. If not you can buy another and use the Tyco/Mantua as a dummy for your layout. I have some older engines that I've picked up at garage sales and have brought them back from the scrap yard....so go for it and good luck!:thumbsup:


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## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

LOL... Great info guys!!! Some classic one liners too. If nothing else it will make a WONDERFUL one time target for my Taurus .45/.410 Revolver...lol Just kidding.. It will make a nice dummy loco. Oh yeah and HOW do I get it apart without ripping it to shreds??? Patience and delicate fingers are NOT my forte...LOL Great hobby I got here...LOL
Thanks for the links Shaygetz... going to check them out now.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Get it open? You need to get it open? A hammer is a great last resort. Experience talking here. The .45 just leaves a hole with an even BIGGER exit wound. And band aids won't cover that up. A .410 just peppers the crap out of the shell.

There should be a couple of screws on the bottom near the fuel tank, VERY small Philips heads. Some Mantua/Tyco engines release the bodies by unscrewing the coupler mounts if frame mounted. Really depends on which engine and model you have. A picture of the underside would be nice, I could better inform you. 

And if all else fails, I have a custom Colt Gold Cup .45ACP, a real tack driver, that really relieves the stress and anger one acquires working on a non-cooperating engine. You'll need to furnish your own band-aids and duct tape.

Bob


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## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

LOL... I was close to hammer stage but found the video on taking it apart. Well.. its apart... Umm.... yeah.. Its apart alright.. Did it the right way. Going to watch more video and I'll post a pic or two of this poor thing later... Thanks for the help!! On a real note, can I buy a new motor for it or just put it back together and make it a paperweight???


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## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

*classic....*



MacDaddy55 said:


> The stories you will hear are true....the names have been changed to protect the innocent......it was a sunny day in the city of angels we were working out of Bunko....my names Friday my partners name is Gannon.....Sorry Rambo couldn't resist! Stationmaster Bob is right...you can't hurt it if its already dead. Think of that Loco as a gineau pig...if you get it to run using all your investigative powers....(Good work by Shaygetz)thats great. If not you can buy another and use the Tyco/Mantua as a dummy for your layout. I have some older engines that I've picked up at garage sales and have brought them back from the scrap yard....so go for it and good luck!:thumbsup:


Just read this again... that was funny.:laugh:


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

rambo_k9 said:


> LOL... I was close to hammer stage but found the video on taking it apart. Well.. its apart... Umm.... yeah.. Its apart alright.. Did it the right way. Going to watch more video and I'll post a pic or two of this poor thing later... Thanks for the help!! On a real note, can I buy a new motor for it or just put it back together and make it a paperweight???


Before diving off the deep end and buying a motor, check the electrical pickups, you may have a wire lose and a simple re-soldering will fix the problem.

I use Northwest Short Lines for regearing and repowering most of my locos. 

Link: http://www.nwsl.com/

Bob


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

"Don't give up the ship. We have only begun to fight!"

Find some life in that little guy, Rambo ... a little lube, electrical contact cleaning, magic potion ... piece of cake.

(We all hate locomotive funerals.)

TJ


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

If the motor is shot try one from a PC's CD drive. They are about the right size. Anything may work with a little imagination.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

We TYCOnauts remotor them regularly with CD-ROM motors, work great and are almost a drop in fit...and...as the video will show, they have a flywheel like action that helps them run real well...


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## holayoutdude (Apr 17, 2010)

Are you using any devices hooked up to your trains? - switch track, lights, etc. That would take power from the trains. If anyone knows how to solve this respond please.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

My layout has segregated power. A completely different power supply system runs my trains than operates the accessories.

Bob


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Like Bob, I use separate power for my accessories...a great use for those cheap toy set packs.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

It should be said here, though, Bob(shaygetz), that a good quality power supply has it merits as most come with an AC side, or even a second cab, to run DC accessories. The second cab, can be used to dim lights, a neat little feature if using DC lighting. 

We did just that on the grandson's first static layout, an 8x12 L-shaped deal(pre-DCC). I still have the power supply and use it on a test track and around the Christmas tree for our O-gauge Christmas train. I bought it, and about 8 other good units, from the "back room" of the old club, about 12-13 years ago for $30. There were two such units in the box. The other runs the HO Christmas layout and village each year. They are the old MRC Model 770 units, the brushed copper looking ones w/black lettering. These power supplies are almost bullet proof. I've turned down offers for both that most would have taken. Just can't go out and replace these things any place. Both look new.

There were a couple of MRC TechII Model 1300's in the batch, a Tech II 6200(?) unit(I use it for our G-scale "in-the-house" layout) that was larger, and a big Tech IV that I can't remember the model off the top of my head at the moment. All totaled about $400-$500 worth of power supplies, I'd guess. I've used a couple on some of the layouts I've built for others recently, like the one at the nursing home. There are a couple of others that I can't remember the model #'s.

I'd put these earlier Model 770's up against any of the newer models any time.

Bob


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

The only thing I would add is simply to stress the importance of clean track and clean wheels. It doesn't take much grime on a track to cause a train to not run at all! I would venture to guess that a new train right out of the box will NOT run if placed on dirty enough track. If the wheels of the loco are grimy enough, it also may not run on brand new track! Both wheels and track should be as clean as possible to insure good electrical contact! Good luck!

Chad


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## Old Bob (Apr 2, 2010)

Rambo, let me ask a very basic question. Forgive me if too basic - I'm a newbie too.

Are you using DC power or DCC? Is the new bought loco using the same power system? If not, that will explain your problem. In looking at the photos, I don't see a DCC decoder.


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Old Bob,

Almost all DCC systems have made an allowance to run one DC engine. And some DCC decoders, called "smart chips" will run on either DC or DCC. Atlas engines currently produced for DCC are equipped with "smart chips". And DC versions that are "DCC ready" are equipped with a "jumper" that must be removed to install a DCC decoder, otherwise these engines are DC. Examples are Athearn, Kato, P2K, Spectrum, among others.

bob


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## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

*Umm...*



Old Bob said:


> Rambo, let me ask a very basic question. Forgive me if too basic - I'm a newbie too.
> 
> Are you using DC power or DCC? Is the new bought loco using the same power system? If not, that will explain your problem. In looking at the photos, I don't see a DCC decoder.


 Ummm...yes???...lol My little system is ten years old it was a Package set with a Sante Fe loco and five cars. This loco is from the seventies I believe. I got the motor out and am trying to clean it...any suggestions on where to oil or what to clean with? I'm not drilling out the rivets to FULLY disassemble. Batteries on camera died, will have new ones soon and pics. Thanks again for everyone's input.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

rambo_k9 said:


> Ummm...yes???...lol


Yours is a DC system, the standard for many years. Plastic compatible electronics contact cleaner will work if you don't wish to disassemble. Douse it real good, blow it out with canned air, repeat once or twice more. Rinse it with WD-40 to remove all the cleaner and leave a good lube base that will not interfere with electrical current. Let it dry out, then put a light, plastic compatible machine oil on any bearing points---where wheels, gears and axles turn---then a light, plastic compatible grease on the gears themselves. I used Penn Reel Lube for a long time with no ill effects 'til I found a local source for LaBelle products, a very good maker of lubricants for trains. 

A little grease and oil goes a long way so do it very lightly.


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## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks Shay!!! and everyone else for the advice. Will put it too good use and let you know how it goes.


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## rambo_k9 (Mar 29, 2010)

I think she is dead...  Air, WD-40, dried, air... Put on tracks... nothing. I think she is dead. Metal wheels DO NOT even budge to try and move. Guess we'll make plans for a short funeral...LOL unless anyone has other suggestions. Thanks for everything though. I have another thread I'm going to start about what to buy first, in the loco, engine area. Hope you'll post.


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