# Upgrade Control Panel Switch



## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

I have this idea to replace the standard Atlas control panel switches for my turnouts with pairs of momentary contact switches. 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner...h-Button-Switch-Black-1-Pack-GSW-22/100176241

Has anyone tried this? Can anyone provide a wiring diagram? 

Thank you!


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Don't buy anything yet, there are better solutions. For one thing, ebay switches are much less expensive (and probably come from the same country) .

My solution was to use a DPDT to change turnout direction option, frog power, and the ground signal LED, then the push button to activate the turnout machine.


Here is a good reading thread
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=176680

My setup uses switches and diodes only. For a more compact design see this...

https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=158401&highlight=Stapleton


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

I can't help with a diagram. My computer skills suck. But I'd suggest using a toggle switch instead of a second momentary contact switch. That way, you'd have a visual reminder of what direction the turnout is in from the control panel. That's the beauty of the stock switch, in that it's a toggle and a momentary switch in one. Except it is kinda ugly.

Like this;

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-20-Amp-Single-Pole-Toggle-Switch-1-Pack-GSW-13/100122325

Edit- like Dennis said, in a much better way. How can I delete my post?


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

instead of replacing them with two momentary switches, you can replace them with a single momentary SPDT switches.

wiring a solenoidt switch machine for remote turnout control provides a schematic


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## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

SPDT or DPDT?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I use the DPDT toggle switches with push button
activation on my layout the same as Dennis
mentioned. It works fine but it
is not foolproof. You can throw the switch but
forget to push the button, thus a derail when
loco wheels hit points against them.

Had I known of the Stapleton 751 D switch I would
have used them.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM

They employ the DPDTswitch but a built-in Capacitor
Discharge unit throw the points. It has terminals for
panel and trackside signals. Foolproof and they
protect the coils from accidental burnout.

Don


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

TiCoyote said:


> SPDT or DPDT?


for what you orignally asked, SPDT momentary

the suggestion for using DPDT is to accommodate an LED being displayed on the panel, frog power or signal. i don't think it was explained completely enough considering your original request.

presumably you would wire one pole of the DPDT to LEDs and power for those LEDs and the other pole to the switch machine and to the supply for all the switches.

That supply has a single momentary switch in series with the supply and all the DPDTs. you would set the DPDT and then push the momentary switch.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I think DonR's idea to use the CD switches is the most elegant and safe. It also includes the ability to have LED indicators!


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

TiCoyote said:


> .... Can anyone provide a wiring diagram?
> 
> Thank you!


Google can!
http://schematron.org/atlas-turnout-wiring-diagram.html


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## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

I like the idea of the SPDT momentary switches for simplicity, but then I won't have any visual indication from the control panel of the position of each turnout. I think I'll go with the SPDT in combination with a push-button momentary. At least, then I have visual indication from the panel. Later on, I can swap them for DPDT and add in LED indicators. Baby steps.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Momentary switches*



TiCoyote said:


> I like the idea of the SPDT momentary switches for simplicity, but then I won't have any visual indication from the control panel of the position of each turnout. I think I'll go with the SPDT in combination with a push-button momentary. At least, then I have visual indication from the panel. Later on, I can swap them for DPDT and add in LED indicators. Baby steps.


TiCoyote;

The momentary toggle switches I've seen are spring loaded to the center (and power off for both sides) position. If the handle of the toggle switch is sprung back to the center, you would have no indication of which position the turnout was in. If you elect to use toggle switches, I would suggest going with Dennis & Don's recommendations; of DPDT normal (not momentary) toggle switches, and a push button for each toggle switch/turnout combination. The Home Depot buttons in your link would work fine. 

The Stapleton switch that Don mentioned has one important advantage. It has a built-in Capacitive Discharge Unit.(CDU) If you don't have a CDU to operate your twin-coil switch machines, it would be wise to get one. The coils in those machines can easily burn out if power is applied for more than a second or two. You are smart to replace those Atlas controls. Not only are they big & ugly, they aren't good quality electrical switches either. The contacts inside have been known to corrode to the point that they no longer work. The same contacts have also been reported several times here to have shorted, welded themselves together, and destroyed a coil in the switch machine. That's the advantage of using a CDU. It prevents coil burnout. Even if someone leans on the button too long, or the button itself shorts, the coil will be protected.

If you choose to use the DPDT toggle switches, the LED indicators would be easy to wire.
Use a 4-9 volt "wall wart" transformer for power, put a 100 ohm resistor on one of it's wires and hook the the resistor.s other wire to the center terminal of one side of the DPDT toggle switch. Connect the second wire from the wall wart to the common connection for both LEDs. The other wire from each LED should go to one, or the other, outside of the same side of the toggle switch that has the wall wart/resistor wire attached. The center terminal of the opposite side of the DPDT toggle switch should have the turnout power on the center terminal, and one coil wire (red or green) to each of the outside terminals. The other wire from your turnout power supply should pass through the push button, and feed the common (black) wires for all the turnouts.

good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

Now I'm getting interested in track-side indicators. Do I need to build them myself, or can I buy them pre-assembled? Who can point me towards a product? Thanks!


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

gregc said:


> ... and to the supply for all the switches.
> 
> That supply has a single momentary switch in series with the supply and all the DPDTs.


this is wrong.

there should be a separate momentary switch for each machine unless you want to power all switch machines at the same time.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Here's a link to several types of trackside signals.
They are useful to see that a turnout points will
give a clear route.

https://www.google.com/search?q=HO+lighted+Block+signals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*You're right, I was wrong.*



gregc said:


> this is wrong.
> 
> there should be a separate momentary switch for each machine unless you want to power all switch machines at the same time.


 gregc;

You are correct. I got this wrong too. I had suggested using only a single push button. I edited my response to correct my mistake. Thanks for clarifying this point.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Trackside signals or pannel leds*



TiCoyote said:


> Now I'm getting interested in track-side indicators. Do I need to build them myself, or can I buy them pre-assembled? Who can point me towards a product? Thanks!


 If you do use either a track-side signal, or control pannel LEDs to keep track of which way a turnout is thrown, you might look at an Atlas relay device which hooks to the turnout wiring and operates LEDs, either in a track-side signal, or on the control pannel. 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

ideally, a panel switch would only control the turnout and feedback from the turnout would control any panel or trackside indicator. 

This is possible with a Tortise switch machine that has a built in DPDT switch suitable for powering a frog and providing some feedback/indication


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Not only Tortoise*



gregc said:


> ideally, a panel switch would only control the turnout and feedback from the turnout would control any panel or trackside indicator.
> 
> This is possible with a Tortise switch machine that has a built in DPDT switch suitable for powering a frog and providing some feedback/indication


 gregc;

Peco makes an electric switch that attaches to their twin-coil switch machine. The Atlas relay device is somewhat like the DPDT panel switch with LEDs wired to one side and the turnout wired to the other. Both tell you what the operator has done, at the control panel, not necessarily what the turnout may have done, out on the layout.
It's also possible to add contacts to most commercial turnouts, right at the turnout location. Not necessarily fun, but possible. A micro-switch that can monitor the position of the throwbar, or the linkage that drives the throwbar, would do the job.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

Atlas lists this exact use in the description;

https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-51-snap-relay.aspx


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

seems that it's driven by the electric signal to the switch machine, not the throwbar. At least it would let you know that you hit the momentary switch.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

It seems to me that DonR's suggestion of using Stapleton 751 D switches would solve a lot of the wiring and messing around. Besides being a much safer approach.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Thanks for the relay info*



Stan D said:


> Atlas lists this exact use in the description;
> 
> https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-51-snap-relay.aspx


Stan D & gregc;

Thank you both for contributing the information on the Atlas snap relay. I tried navigating the Atlas site for the first time this morning and wasn't able to get anywhere. I couldn't even find a search function.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

I have a bunch of 'em, in the pile of stuff I got years ago. Not sure what I'm gonna do with them yet, but turnout position is at the top of the list.


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## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

So I set up DPDT switches and momentary push buttons with the turnouts and block signals. Works great! I'm not sure I can upload videos, but I'll attach some images.


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## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

Sorry. The wiring diagrams came out upside down.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

traction fan said:


> Stan D & gregc;
> 
> Thank you both for contributing the information on the Atlas snap relay. I tried navigating the Atlas site for the first time this morning and wasn't able to get anywhere. I couldn't even find a search function.


They're in the N scale area.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

TiCoyote --

Just to let you know, the signal (as shown in post 24 above), is in a location where it "doesn't make sense" from the standpoint of real train operations.

On a real railroad (worked on them for 32 years), the signal will be located "before" the switch points, thus "protecting" the switch and displaying an indication for either route ahead. It would also be to the right of the track.

Or ... if it's intended to represent a signal for ONLY the track we see going to the left... the signal would be located beyond "the interlocking limits" (about where we see the "break" in the table surface above). Also, it would again be located TO THE RIGHT of the track (which is "on the engineer's side").

Just thought you ought to know.


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## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

J.Albert1949 said:


> TiCoyote --
> 
> Just to let you know, the signal (as shown in post 24 above), is in a location where it "doesn't make sense" from the standpoint of real train operations.
> 
> ...


That's a good call. I had installed them to let me know which way the train would go, but it would make more sense if I positioned it the other way and had two of them, so I would know whether the train could safely pass through the turnout. Thanks!


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

TiCoyote said:


> Sorry. The wiring diagrams came out upside down.


I'm getting stiff neck trying to read them .
FYI, i named my sidings and put labels next to the toggle switches.

I also put some of my signals too close to the track and now need to move them, yous look OK.


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## TiCoyote (Dec 11, 2018)

I moved the signals and installed a second set. They're really helpful now, and they look great!

They're still to the left of the track, but they wouldn't fit on the other side.


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