# Track Finished but little to no power PT2



## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

I made a simple drawing of my HO layout & I really hope people are able to see it. The red line down the center of the photo is where I have put power rail joiners. The red X’s are where I’m going to put feeder wires. I welcome your comments & suggestions.
Thanks


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

That should do it.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

I noticed yesterday that I'll need to replace some flex track as my train will start to derail, at the top right corner of my drawing/layout. I'm still having power issues after adding feeder wires though at the rerailer & near the corners. I know I did a half assed job wiring underneath using stranded & solid wire. I also didn't have the fancy connectors to work with. I haven't wired the switches yet, not knowing if this will make a big difference. I might go to the hobby shop today for a Q & A session maybe picking up a few other things.

Thanks


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Any time you have a derail occurring at the same
spot on your layout there is some sort of misalignment
of the track. You can probably discover what the
problem is by doing this simple test:

With a good strong light, get very close to the
trouble spot, run your train as slow as it will go.
When you see a wheel start to 'lift', STOP. Your problem
is right there. Track may be out of gauge, or vertically
distorted, possibly a too wide gap or a misaligned joiner. You can usually correct the situation without need of replacement.

However, if the derail occurs only on a certain car
the problem is the wheels of that car.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

There is a crucial piece of data missing from your sketch: a distance scale. How big is that oval? How sharp have you made the turn in the upper right, and what kind of equipment are you trying to run on it?

What parts of your track are having power issues? You don't need fancy connectors, as long as you made good connections in your wiring.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hello Don.
I noticed that the spot where my train "derails" the flex track on the inner rail is slightly off, so I'll have to fix it. I used rolling stock going clockwise & the rear wheels go off the track, when the front wheels are fine. I'll look at my wiring setup too as I haven't soldered anything underneath, plus look into adding more feeder wires perhaps.

Thanks


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hello CTValley.
My layout is 4x8 in HO scale. I"m having power issues at the end on the far right of my sketch. I'm running my brother's HO steam locomotive for testing, but when I run my OO locomotive starting at the rerailer "little black rectangle" in photo, the lights turn on but the locomotive doesn't move. I don't know how sharp the turn is in the upper right portion of my drawing, but its 46" across if that makes any sense. In my scarm layout drawing, I've got 2 18" 30 degree curved sectional track connected to flex track where the derailment occurs.

Thanks


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That is likely where the problem lies. From your stated dimensions and track being used, you are going from an 18"r to a 23"r. 

How smooth is this transition?


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hello Michael.
I took a photo of the problematic track. It’s the inner track if you can see the kink. I’m using OO track from my set, but the rest of my layout is code 100 Atlas flex & sectional track. I also noticed some slight gaps on my layout fingernail width, putting the track together, before I decided to use a few pieces of flex track to correct some things . I’ m thinking of getting another terminal block, as the one I currently have is almost full. The wire closest to the roadbed goes to the power supply, when the other wires are for power and feeder wires.

Thanks


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MrStucky said:


> Hello Michael.
> I took a photo of the problematic track. It’s the inner track if you can see the kink. I’m using OO track from my set, but the rest of my layout is code 100 Atlas flex & sectional track. I also noticed some slight gaps on my layout fingernail width, putting the track together, before I decided to use a few pieces of flex track to correct some things . I’ m thinking of getting another terminal block, as the one I currently have is almost full. The wire closest to the roadbed goes to the power supply, when the other wires are for power and feeder wires.
> 
> Thanks


Um, yeah. That's what we call a kink, and it will never work. You need to make absolutely certain that you have a smooth transition between rail pieces. Get some plastic, wooden, or metal curve templates if you're having trouble making a smooth curve at joints. If using flex track, either cut the track so that you don't have a joint in the curve, or solder the pieces together (you actually use a rail joiner, and solder it to each piece of track; don't try to solder a butt joint) on your workbench while the track is straight and then curve it.

Don't waste any time chasing electrical gremlins until your track work is bullet-proof, because you'll just have to do it again when you reinstall the track.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MrStucky said:


> Hello CTValley.
> My layout is 4x8 in HO scale. I"m having power issues at the end on the far right of my sketch. I'm running my brother's HO steam locomotive for testing, but when I run my OO locomotive starting at the rerailer "little black rectangle" in photo, the lights turn on but the locomotive doesn't move. I don't know how sharp the turn is in the upper right portion of my drawing, but its 46" across if that makes any sense. In my scarm layout drawing, I've got 2 18" 30 degree curved sectional track connected to flex track where the derailment occurs.
> 
> Thanks


BTW, a general rule for troubleshooting is: if everything has trouble with a spot on the layout, it's the track; if only one loco does, it's the loco. Does your brother's loco run correctly? 

So you have a SCARM drawing? How about posting that instead of the hand-drawn sketch? Also, what the drawing shows doesn't really mean much if you didn't build it the way it's drawn. If SCARM shows a smooth curve and you have a kink, that's something you need to fix. I've never used SCARM, but I know commercial layout software doesn't let you fudge connections: things either line up properly or they don't. If SCARM doesn't do those alignment checks, I'd recommend a different software package.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Well, yeah, that looks like a problem.

Ask yourself if you ever saw a rail joint on a real railroad that looked like that. Would you really expect a full size train to negotiate that?


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

if they can run on this wierd track then why not that one hahahahahah


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

sid said:


> if they can run on this wierd track then why not that one hahahahahah


Because that's caused by the spatial compression of the camera lens. The track isn't actually that bad.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hi Everyone. I fixed the kink in my track & I'm thinking of changing my wiring, or at least disconnect the feeder wires from the 2 inner circles. I think I have a short somewhere, or I have some wires in the wrong places. I just finished using the anyrail software to make my layout, but I was only using the trial version so my layout is incomplete. I have flex track connecting the inner circles at the top where the turnouts are.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Check all your feeders and make sure they are consistently connecting the same bus wire to the same rail (inside or outside). That's your most likely problem.

What kind of track are you using?


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hello CTValley.
I'm using Atlas code 100 sectional & flex track, along with a few pieces of sectional 00 track from my train set. I was just checking out my track & feeders. I might resolder a couple of the feeders too, as they don't look good in my opinion probably because I was rushing. 

Thanks


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hi everyone.
I resoldered a few of my feeders tonight & checked the running of the trains again. The trains stop in the same place, so I’ll check the wiring underneath. In the photo I attached you can see my brother’s Fleischmann train, & the spring which was covered by tape or something else now touching the wheel. I didn’t notice this until now, as I walked around my layout to see where the holdup was.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MrStucky said:


> Hi everyone.
> I resoldered a few of my feeders tonight & checked the running of the trains again. The trains stop in the same place, so I’ll check the wiring underneath. In the photo I attached you can see my brother’s Fleischmann train, & the spring which was covered by tape or something else now touching the wheel. I didn’t notice this until now, as I walked around my layout to see where the holdup was.


I'll take your word for it. That photo is much to blurry for me to figure out what I'm looking at.

Is the track where the trains stop isolated? If not, you can rule out a short, because a short would affect the whole layout. Likewise, on a layout that size, it probably isn't a lack of feeders. Do the trains lose power (no lights, no motor hum), or do they just stop moving?

Can you post a clear picture of the track where the stall occurs?

I would suspect one of three causes: 1) dirt or other crud on the rails, 2) and as-yet undiagnosed kink, or 3) rails out of gauge at that spot. Don't assume; check it. Use your HO standards gauge.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hello CTValley.
The blurred photo you speak of is my brother's HO Fleischmann train. The insulation on the coil fell off, which is now touching the wheels. I messaged a guy in the UK through youtube. He works at a hobby shop dealing in European model trains. He suggested I replace the insulation on the coil & resolder the joint


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

In order to figure out the gremlins in my wiring, I decided to make a test track last night, as I"m starting to think the power supply I'm using is past its life span. The trains I'm running go forward, but when I hit reverse they sometimes don't move until I give them a nudge. I'm using 20 gauge wire connected to the track via alligator clips from the power supply.
Thanks


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MrStucky said:


> Hello CTValley.
> The blurred photo you speak of is my brother's HO Fleischmann train. The insulation on the coil fell off, which is now touching the wheels. I messaged a guy in the UK through youtube. He works at a hobby shop dealing in European model trains. He suggested I replace the insulation on the coil & resolder the joint


Yes, I can make out drivers and connecting rods, thereby giving me a pretty good idea that it's a locomotive, but any detail of wires, connections, motors, etc, which might be helpful in troubleshooting is not clear.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MrStucky said:


> In order to figure out the gremlins in my wiring, I decided to make a test track last night, as I"m starting to think the power supply I'm using is past its life span. The trains I'm running go forward, but when I hit reverse they sometimes don't move until I give them a nudge. I'm using 20 gauge wire connected to the track via alligator clips from the power supply.
> Thanks


A faulty power supply would not make things stall at the same place all the time, although you have never confirmed that this is what is happening.

Dirt or poor (or no) lubrication can also cause the symptoms you describe. Did you clean everything? Your track photos seem to show somempretty heavily oxidized brass track. I would clean and lube before doing anything else.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

I inspected my track more tonight resoldered a wire so that it wouldn't stick up, added more track nails as some track wasn't nailed down in spots. I remember when I was gluing down the blue foam insulation I didn't have lots of weight in every corner, but I made the best of it with what I had available. I clamped down the foam where all my trains "stopped", & ran my 00 train around the track. I had success for once, no derailments a little power loss, only because I undid some wiring below but my engine ran completely around. I'll check the inner circles this weekend for continuity I reglued & clamped the spots where the foam was raised. I think lately I've been treating this hobby like a chore, doing everything in a rush only to find mistakes later on. I'm glad the mistakes I'm finding aren't costly though just a little time consuming.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Treating the hobby like a chore is the best way to get fed up and quit. Obviously, depending on what you enjoy doing, some aspects of the hobby will seem like drudgework anyway (wiring and blasting track, for me).

It sounds like your operating problems are mechanical, not electrical, and adding feeders isn't going to help that.

As you've discovered, rushing is not a path to success, no matter how much you hate the process you're doing. Enjoy the journey, and take the time necessary to do things right. This is especially true of track work: it must be bullet-proof, or it sucks the fun right out of the hobby (as you have seen). It must be dead level (if on an incline, the slope must be smooth, with the exception of gradual easements at the beginning and end). Curves must be smooth (and eased, if they are sharp) and free of kinks and sharp S curves. Better quality and more gradual turnouts are also generally a good idea.

Anyway, I hate to say it, but it sounds like you're in a situation where you have taken so many shortcuts that your best recourse would be to start over, and take the time to do it right: no bumps, no kinks (either vertical or horizontal), no misaligned track joints, etc. Sand, file or otherwise smooth your surface to avoid transmitting imperfections to the track. Ideally, you should take so much care in this part be genuinely surprised when your trains DON'T run smoothly, not pleasantly surprised when they do.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

Hello CTValley.
I don't think that I want to quit the hobby, but I am leaning towards starting over as per your suggestion. The one thing I don't have is a shelf for power supplies, switch connector boxes etc. I think I'll clean off my layout as its where I do all my soldering or put other stuff aside. I got things to work last week, but yesterday nothing. I disconnected the wires from the terminal block & the lights on my SD40 lit up & I also saw a spark, when I was trying to connect the wire to the transformer. I'll keep toying with things to get things up & running.


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## MrStucky (Nov 28, 2015)

I decided to start over. I'm in a really good mood right now so I tore up parts of my track, not bothering to disconnect anything. I've been so busy this past month I can't seem to do anything fun.


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