# Boiler in a Bag



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The shell is a long term project it is a 675 or 2025. without other parts there is no way to tell. I used the oven cleaner in a bag trick. It set overnight. It was more effective than a paint remover. That a black paint is tough.

Good advice.When working a shell like this it is important to have a block of wood underneath to support the draw bar. It was dropped at one time, so when I gave it a rub down the support cracked clean through. Evidently there was tension on the bar and it finally won.

Finished pictures are on page3 post number 30.




















I was planning on using 224 parts to run it but The cost of getting the rest is the price of a used engine. I am not sure what I will do with it . but I plan on painting and fixing two broken areas for now..


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I wonder how that would work on aluminum? I've got one more car to go out of that set of old coaches.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

They make an aluminum cleaning gel. Can't remeber if it was an acid or base. Just read the oven cleaner directions and see if it is good foraluminum. It did say it was used on grills. Toaster ovens have Aluminum inserts too.


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

Reckers said:


> I wonder how that would work on aluminum? I've got one more car to go out of that set of old coaches.


Oven Cleaner shouldn't hurt aluminum. I use Easy Off oven cleaner to clean plastic shells. (Works perfectly, all you have to do is put the object that you want strip in the sun for 10mins or so (Warm it up) and spray it. Use a brush to help the cleaner along, then dip object in bucket of water. Repeat about two times, and the object should look new!)

T-man - I found that stripping metal train parts, the best, is to use a paint stripper or a heavy base. For best results, put object in sun to warm it up, use a brush to help it along and dip in water. (Repeat until stripped). Warning: Don't use on plastic materials, it will eat/burn the plastic. :thumbsdown:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Hmmm, the sun, mid Feb, New England, outside................... it will freeze.
I could wait until spring thaw!

I have been using a toothbrush to work the crevices. The bag, controls the fumes indoors. The pan helps to catch what leaks through.
The new paint removers work ,but aren't as good as the ones that will kill you from cancer. Those old paints are lead tough.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

PW_Lionel_Collector said:


> Oven Cleaner shouldn't hurt aluminum. I use Easy Off oven cleaner to clean plastic shells. (Works perfectly, all you have to do is put the object that you want strip in the sun for 10mins or so (Warm it up) and spray it. Use a brush to help the cleaner along, then dip object in bucket of water. Repeat about two times, and the object should look new!)
> 
> T-man - I found that stripping metal train parts, the best, is to use a paint stripper or a heavy base. For best results, put object in sun to warm it up, use a brush to help it along and dip in water. (Repeat until stripped). Warning: Don't use on plastic materials, *it will eat/burn the plastic*. :thumbsdown:


*L* The one (paint stripper) I'm currently using burns skin! Get a little on your finger and in about 10 seconds, you know it. Scrub with a toothbrush and the lil micro-splashes that land on the back off your hand and forearm start to sting. T, the paint I'm taking off these would challenge your cancer-causing stripper, and there's multiple layers of it. Thank God I'm down to one last car!


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Hmmm, the sun, mid Feb, New England, outside................... it will freeze.
> I could wait until spring thaw!
> 
> I have been using a toothbrush to work the crevices. The bag, controls the fumes indoors. The pan helps to catch what leaks through.
> The new paint removers work ,but aren't as good as the ones that will kill you from cancer. Those old paints are lead tough.


Very true about New England in February. (Very Cold). I guess you couldn't perform (hot) techniques during winter but during summer you should try it. Instead of waiting all night for it to perform, I could do same job in about 30mins. Yes, I agree the old paint is very tough, but I wish Lionel still made it. Best paint to work with. :laugh:


Reckers: 

Sounds like your using the same paint stripper. Last weekend, when I was doing my "Senior Project" (which I'll update this weekend) the paint stripper ate through my gloves. (Lucky for me I had water near-by.) Only negative about paint stripper is that you need heat. If you have oven cleaner laying around, try using it; it should work for you. :thumbsup:


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

PW,

Thanks for the tip---I'll pick some up today and try it out this weekend. You're right about the gloves, too---when I bought it, I was cautioned that gloves were nice, but work fast because they wouldn't last very long! I've been using a plastic dishpan to work in/soak parts in, and so far it's gone unscathed.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*A typical hot day*

I just could resist. Thanks for the idea.

Recker. a good stripper always stings.

It is true, I am firm believer in heat by torch or heat gun or the sun.

I washed the boiler off in water. The surface water instantly froze. Looks cool.

Also shown are the areas I will try to fix. Hopefully by solder. I know epoxy will work.
I will have to wait and see.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

T-Man said:


> I just could resist. Thanks for the idea.
> 
> Recker. a good stripper always stings.
> 
> ...



T-Man,

Speaking from experience...I was young, once...there is no such thing as a good stripper. *L*


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

After two days of paint thinner wiping, and soap and water brushing the shell stopped oozing white stuff. ALmost time to see if the solder will hold it.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I had to forgo the oven-cleaner treatment. Grabbed a can of EZ-Off in a quick trip to the grocery; sort of in a rush. Got home and found it said not for aluminum. At this point, it appears I'll have to clean the oven with it.
Probably going to be too cold to work on that last coach, today; the buffing wheel's on the back porch. It 22F right now; the buffing compounds are a waxy base that crumble when they're frozen and don't work well. Just have to drink beer and get ready for the Superbowl. *L* Colts by 7, incidentally.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Reckers said:


> T-Man,
> 
> Speaking from experience...I was young, once...there is no such thing as a good stripper. *L*


Gents ...

As a newbie to MTF, I've enjoyed poking around some threads and learning a few helpful tidbits over the past week or two. A few of you buffs have freely offered some insightful advice.

But that comment up above ranks right up there in the hallowed halls of wisdom from the likes of Einstein, DaVinci, Michelangelo, etc.

I see I have much to learn, my friends ... much to learn!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Gents ...
> 
> As a newbie to MTF, I've enjoyed poking around some threads and learning a few helpful tidbits over the past week or two. A few of you buffs have freely offered some insightful advice.
> 
> ...



I knew of a good stripper once. Many MOONS ago.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The fixit was done with Epoxy. I gave up with the rosin core solder. A little sanding and paint primer.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Painted up*

The shell got painted up. Being a 675 0r a 2025 I couldn't make up my mind so I will number it by the front boiler plate that I had from parts. 5056 I think. OOPS 5690 on the keystone sticker. This is the number that goes with these two engines. This black is more like a satin or eggshell than flat. The railing is brass on this. Brass rod was sold at that dollhouse place I recently visited. The unusual part is the aluminum smoke stack. It was painted on this one but some models had it natural.











I finished the clean up of the new 224 so I have a Bill and Ben now. The steam chest for both are whitish. I am not sure what I will do about that. I am not sure how well I can match the paint.
The ebay purchase is on the left. The box lot on the right got all new wiring of the eunit


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## RichT (Dec 21, 2009)

T-Man said:


> The railing is brass on this. Brass rod was sold at that dollhouse place I recently visited.


Doll house shop you say... good idea... I like the look of the brass... I think it gives it a very classy look, and the paint job is fantastic.....

what paint did you use on the final coats?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Believe it or not, Walmart flat black. That wire is small it is under 1/16th. A hooby shop may carry the brass display. I am not sure if a craft store does. The gray primer is Walmart too!


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## RichT (Dec 21, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Believe it or not, Walmart flat black. That wire is small it is under 1/16th. A hobby shop may carry the brass display. I am not sure if a craft store does. The gray primer is Walmart too!



I'll go check that out.... I found the Krylon's Satin Black matches the Steamers very well....Got that at a craft store.... I have been using Rustoleum Black primer on the bare metal.... got that at the home center

A 200 watt Shop flood light makes a good paint baker on the metal parts


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have used Krylon. I just use a heat gun to get parts to temperature. A heat lamp is a good idea for metal parts. I always use a primer on metal or old paint. I don't know my wattage it is around 200. The secret for Walmart is that it is thin paint not thick for coverage. I find this a great advantage.


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## RichT (Dec 21, 2009)

T-Man said:


> The secret for Walmart is that it is thin paint not thick for coverage. I find this a great advantage.


I've tried spraying the paint into a glass dish (don't use a plastic cup, the paint will eat it  ) then use a small modeling brush to paint it on... that makes it go on thin... and I can control where and how much... I use that technique with the satin black paint to touch up the little nicks and scratches found on most E-bay purchased engines. If i take my time and let it build up slowly, you can't tell where I touched it up


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

For a glass dish the old ash tray would be super. I have a few laying around. I inherited one recently. I use them as junk holders. They are interesting in themselves. I was fortunate emough not to start.

I do use a touch up. When drilling holes for railings, the cast shines right up. I use a flat black acrylic craft paint. Paint, versus worn look has always been a tough decision. I may also start with the nonstandard grey or red. I wanted one to be the flat black since I refinished some HO years ago.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*I'm back*

Before










B&M parts supplier was holding out. He must needs cashola for more trains. Here are the results, a painted steam chest and a motor fit up. The mounting screw had to be turned down but it fit.










Thank you for the parts! B&M:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Boy, what an amazing transformation on that empty shell ... looks GREAT.

Thanks all (above) for the tips on stripping / painting. I haven't tackled anything like that yet on an old Lionel, but you're giving me some future confidence to keep my eyes open for some more fixer-uppers.

How would you go about re-applying numbers? Do you use some sort of white, dry rub-on decal transfer? If so, what source?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That is the hard part. Finding a dry rub on white lettering in a small size. I can't remember the size but it is under 1/4 inch maybe 1/8. When I letter I wil let you know.I found the seasonal lettering for my tender in silver stickers at a scrap book store. Best to get it at a train show. I will add a before picture for effect.

I have white 4mm rub on and a black 1/8th rub on transfer. The 4 mm is slighty larger.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

T-Man said:


> Thank you for the parts! B&M:thumbsup:


LOL, you got to work on that fast! Now all you need to do is get the drive rods on... It looks great too


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Yes, I didn't waste time. I am sure they will work out great. I have to work on an e unit next. Thanks for adding all the screws that was a big help.

I compared the new engine to an older model of the 224, 675, 2025 class. The size looks good. The different diameter just means that a different nut is used. One is just threaded the other has a shoulder. It is the eccentric crank that is different. The spoke model has a shorter rod by at least 1/8th of an inch. I was curious. It is easy to id a part by a number but what size is it really. I have a buch of extras but I have to compare them to known items to properly id them. So with this set I can start. A lot of the rods are for larger engines.

The engine on the right is the original that I wound the armature. It is having probems. I just bought some new brushes and you can see the sad shape of the old ones. They came out of a gatehouse whistle. You use parts where you can find them.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Engine mounting*

Nothing ever fits the first time. 
First I had to use a one inch 6-32 screw to clean the threads. from the opposite side. I slightly enlarged the closest hole with the tungsten bit. This got the screw lined up but it was still tight. So I grinded the end of the screw. The rub marks were visible. It didn't take much and now it works slick.










I got the spare eunit together with new parts.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Engine number*

Today I finished the eunit soldering. I had one bent contact that need adjusting. The rods were cleaned and placed on. I started the numbering. The motor and e unit checked sat B&M was true to his word. Sorry about bringing up the melted shell again, but it is a good picture. Now I have successfullly rebuilt an e unit and tested it. I am almost finished with this project.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The numbering is finished. My rear wheels do not fit and I do not have a front set. So that ends it for now.
Again, B&M, Thanks for the parts. The 2026 shell will have to wait.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Lookin' NICE, T-Man ... lookin' NICE!

TJ


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## RichT (Dec 21, 2009)

T-Man said:


> I started the numbering.


Did you freehand those numbers, or use a stamp kit?

It looks fantastic T-man... nothing beats bringing a old lady back to her former glory


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

4mm rub ons with a coat of non gloss MOD Podge. The numbers came apart and I had to double rub a few. I have found that the camera is forgiving.

Up until now I have kept engines original. Some do need attention. I always wanted to do a remake since painting a few HO cast shells.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Done for now*

For completion I got front and rear trucks through ebay. I am sporting a 1954motor and trucks and a 1942 shell. I still have a bad marker light but that is for character for now. At least I can pull cars now. It all started with a shell. For the log it was a 675 or 2025 0r 2035 shell to be considered since it was missing numbers. It had to be 1942 675 or 2025, since the stack is aluminum. The 2035 shell came later.Thanks to B&M for coming through on the motor and rods.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob, Looks really nice. The finish is excellent and the hand rails give it an extra dimension of class!


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

T-MAN,

Now that's what I call a wonderful restoration job! :thumbsup: 
You did a great job all the way from stripping to Epoxy to the painting and details! I bet it runs like a C.H.A.M.P. also! A+ for everything!

Good Job, :thumbsup:

PW - Jason


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

PW_Lionel_Collector said:


> T-MAN,
> 
> Now that's what I call a wonderful restoration job! :thumbsup:
> You did a great job all the way from stripping to Epoxy to the painting and details! I bet it runs like a C.H.A.M.P. also! A+ for everything!
> ...


I agree......but you don't grade the Teacher. T= Teacher
I would give him a triple A+:laugh::thumbsup:
I'm still waiting for his book to come out.

T-man, why didn't you buy some replacement markers? I have seen them on e bay. Not that expensive and they were buy it now's too. 

Just last week I was reading an article in an old CTT magazine about replacing them. 
I won a lot of 25 magazines in new shape for $12.00 bucks w/t shipping. From the late 90's and early 2000's. 
I bring one with me to read in the truck so if I get held up I got something to read at all times.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Excellent work, as usual! You should be very proud of yuor efforts to bring some new life back to this old girl! Well done.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

big ed said:


> T-man, why didn't you buy some replacement markers? I have seen them on e bay. Not that expensive and they were buy it now's too.
> 
> Just last week I was reading an article in an old CTT magazine about replacing them.
> I won a lot of 25 magazines in new shape for $12.00 bucks w/t shipping. From the late 90's and early 2000's.
> I bring one with me to read in the truck so if I get held up I got something to read at all times.




I forgot about those. With a dremel cutting wheel the change would be easy. eed to place those on my next cheep purchase list. I just bought pickups for the DC 8604 so I can run that with the reverse line. They should be in soon.

I am glad you like the work. It amazes me the ideas that pop up here. I should buy up some old mags they are a great resource.


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

T-Man, you never cease to amaze me


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## mojotrain (Jul 24, 2012)

*ref*

It really looks nice. Seeing it has me thinking I'll pull my 2025 down and give it a new paint job.


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