# Ideas needed - multiple transformers



## kingred58

Hey gang, first post here (be kind)

So my son and I have dived in head first and have filled our 4x8 layout - yeah, I know I should have researched before* we fell for it*! As expected we're expanding our empire this upcoming break week. Here's my need...

Got 3 kids and a nephew and niece who we sit for. All want their shot at controlling the train (and deservedly so!). Want to create a layout to allow multiple operators.

-HO scale
-using DC
-tracking with Bachmann Ez track
-have multiple transformers

*Can I have two / three sections that connect but are are connected and are powered by two / three separate transformers? Would simple plastic connectors be part of the solution?*

At this point, we have a lower oval and a raised C shaped line, not connected. Was hoping to join these with some risers and be able to transition control from one operator (transformer 1) to a second operator (transformer 2). Will this short engine or transformers? 

Would love to hear some basic solutions.

Thanks, 
Kingred


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## NIMT

Kingred,
You will run into some complications trying to do that. Shorting of power supply to power supply will be a problem, The engines will not like it and potentially do some major harm to them! I don't know of an easy solution to your problem aside from going to DCC which would solve the problem.
Running single tracks with multiple trains is extremely complex, Running multiple tracks with multiple trains is a lot easier but still with some problems.


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## kingred58

Was thinking of having an oval and a small switching layout intersect through a 30 degree X. In essence forming a capital letter Q. (The two sides of the X are independently wired, correct?) 

This would give me 2 operators that could interact a bit.

Was wondering if/how a dual controller - like a MRC Tech II 2800, might help introduce another operator, and connect a third loop or switching set?

Thanks


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## NIMT

I'm guess I'm a little confused on the plan. If you could post a simple pic or sketch of what the layout plan looks like I might be able to come up with something.


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## sstlaure

My layout is currently set-up with 2 separate powerpacks and (8) blocks to isolate each unit. Either powerpack can run on any track, but you need to switch between cab A or B to determine which powerpack is running a particular block.

It does get complicated as a train is going through the layout to keep things straight. 

My kids don't get it and I felt like a maestro trying to flip the switches to keep the kids from running into each other and causing shorts. I ended up pull off one of the powerpacks and just giving them each a turn. (I set a timer to avoid arguements on who has played longer)


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## kingred58

Will try to snap a pic two tonight - no trackware for this beginner.

sstlaure - wow - what a complex andintricate layout. Must have been some very drawn out planning. nice


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## concretepumper

Interesting! I started this way too. Ultimately you just NEED DCC to run multiple trains. I did the "block" thing and it worked but you had to be thinking 3 steps ahead all the time to transfer from one block to another. It worked though. I am running a Dinosaur Atlas DCC but I love it. Just recently I figured out how to run a DC and and a DCC at the same time on my layout.  I have a Jumpy little DC powered Steamer that likes to chase the Union Pacific Diesel around town. :laugh: :laugh:


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## kingred58

*A few shots for perspective*

Alright, let me give this a go...

layout currently is 4x8 sheet, two levels of independent track. 

Lower is an oval through tunnels on each end (with two sets of turnouts allowing an interior, circular route about the village).







Upper is a point to point riding on mountains with a siding to nowhere...








Hoping to connect the upper - shown at right and powered by the black Bachmann transformer







to a turnout which will be located near the track coming out of the tunnel at lower left. (gonna do a big loop w/easy grade on a 4x5 extension).

Again, anyway to leave both transformers in the formula so two young operators can play simultaneously? Wondering about plastic connectors or some other block being possible.

Thanks!


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## concretepumper

Nice layout! :appl::appl: Sean (NIMT) should have the right answers for ya soon!


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## raleets

kingred58,
That's an interesting layout. :thumbsup:
Just curious, is there a particular "theme", or did you simply "wing it"?
Bob


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## NIMT

Yea, you could do it in blocks. It's just going to keep you on your toes. Like we all say DCC is the only way to go if you truly want multiple trains!
Isolate sections with insulated track joiners, and install feeders off each block to switches to allow control! MRC Tech II 2800 will also help with the fact it's got overload protection built in, the little cheap set transformers do not have that and you could do some serious damage.
And I love the layout!


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## kingred58

Kinda happened... sorta looking for a Saranac Lake in the Adirondacks idea. Granite lloking mountains are supposed to resemble Cascade Mt outside of Lake Placid, NY









Originally was going to run my old tyco goodies from the 70's on the upper deck and my sons' new bachmann set on the bottom....then ebay got me. ez track for all!

(no comments, pros!)


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## kingred58

sooo... what does *"install feeders off each block to switches to allow control" *look like for a novice and a 7 year old? (he'll be in charge!)

thanks for positive feedback on layout. I think we're off and running for only 3 months into the game. Really like scratch building and sculpting the scenery - foam is a gift!

Much more fun to come...


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## NIMT

Real simple have a toggle switch either mounted at the place of the split of the block or build a control panel with it mounted there. You would use a double pole double throw switch. when you get ready post here and I'll help you set it up!:thumbsup:


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## Xnats

Love the layout, that is a kids dream city come true :thumbsup: Lots of cool life like scenery and a real city too :appl:
I'll stay out of the block wiring though. DCC would be so much simpler but expensive and that will not totally rule out collisions with what you are looking to do


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## kingred58

NIMT - sorry for the basic level of understanding...

what would I be toggling between - the two transformers? would I have to be lightning fast and toggle at exact moment loco crosses over?

I'm psyched to have an excuse to finally go to the cool electronics store around the corner. Besides a DPDT switch, what else will I need? Hoping to get at it this weekend!


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## NIMT

Give me a little bit and I'll whip up a Blue print to show you.


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## NIMT

Sorry I got tied up, Here it is. Dual cab and dual block control.


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## tjcruiser

Good, clear drawing, Sean ... well done.

TJ


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## kingred58

*Thanks NIMT*

*What a forum! *
I've had advice, input, suggestions, etc. on other types of forums, but never had someone take the time to MAKE me something.

*NIMT, this is crazy*! Thanks. What did you use to draw that up?

Is a "cab" a transformer/power source?

I was thinking of simplifying my layout and just incorporating TOGGLE A to allow either 1 operator OR separate the levels into 2 separate operators / transformers. 

Drawing power from cab B, once a loco passed from right (Block B = lower track) to left (Block A= upper track) across the insulated gap, I could switch the toggle to power from the other transformer (Cab A). I believe this would allow me to then operate upper and lower tracks independently. If I wanted to return a loco from the upper track to the lower, simply stop it, switch the toggle to Cab B, and drive it across the gap.

Would that work? (ie: could my beginner-self get away without wiring 2 switches?)

Thanks again for such a welcoming online community.
DR


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## NIMT

If I get you right this would be a better option.







Just make your control block large enough for your largest engine or engines if more than one is running!


> What did you use to draw that up?


I use paint shop pro, works great for my little sketches!


> Is a "cab" a transformer/power source?


Yes Cab's are transformer/power supply throttle outputs.
I would not recommend using separate power supplies because the chances for a catastrophic short or overload would be present. You Had mentioned using a MRC Tech II 2800 Dual, That would be my choice for an operation like this because it has overload protection built in it!
I really do like helping people out on here and I love to build things for people!


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## kingred58

*Layout Progress*

Thanks for all your help. We've had a VERY productive April break. Took some great advice from the pros on the forum and moved our 4x8 to the wall - good excuse to clean the basement.


My partner and I have had great time designing this and building our empire. Thought I'd share a few photos.

Added on a 30"x5' yard area and a 5'x5' section at the far end to allow us to climb a 10 foot stretch along the back wall up to our upper level. Really starting to come together nicely!








Here's the Engineer sculpting one of our removable cliff areas...







A few shots of the expansion...














...and what it's really all about! (Love the tongue!)








So now we have three transformers hooked up to 3 separate operating areas. I've got the local hobby shop guru lined up to help me wire up NIMT's beautiful design.:thumbsup: Soon they'll all be interchangeable. All in all a great week in Oakville Junction.
Thanks again everyone.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Your *engineer* looks like he's really engrossed!  It's great to see kids enjoying this part of the hobby, they're the future. :thumbsup:


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## concretepumper

Lookin' Good! :thumbsup: The tongue is full concentration!  :laugh: :thumbsup:


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## raleets

Sure wish my 7 year old grandson lived closer so he could help grandpa play choo-choo :laugh:....I'm jealous! 
The cheapest, and simplist way to allow multiple engineers run the trains is to provide a seperate track/train/transformer for each kid.
My layout has three seperate tracks, not connected in any way to each other, with a seperate transformer for each. I can run 1, 2, 3, or all at the same time. Cheap and easy for an electrical dummy like me who doesn't want to spend the bucks for DCC. 
Have fun,
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'm eager to see how my 5 1/2 year old grandson takes to it when I get a real platform setup. I have two Legacy CAB2 controllers, but I'm going to have to lock his down so he can't wreck a bunch of expensive trains!  I may also have a loop or two with conventional control that he can run and not kill anything expensive. 

I just loved the whole effect here, gloves, safety glasses, and immense concentration! It'll be great if he keeps his interest, which will probably be aided by the fact that he was part of the construction. :thumbsup:


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## Bman

Wow, 7 yrs old, I can only hope my 3 yr old will be like that. He loves the trains but his attention span is still about 30 seconds for any one topic. I love him though.

Your layout look really good, I like it. I never got into DC power all that much, except for isolating a siding and powering it. There are a lot of good folks with a lot of knowledge here and their really helpful too!! :thumbsup:
They help out all of us guys who are not as experienced.


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## tjcruiser

Alright ... here's the deal ...

I could use some extra help with my O layout expansion. Send the kid over to my house when you're done with him. I'll pay him in hot dogs and ice cream sandwiches!

TJ


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## kingred58

By the looks of his concentration and smile, we won't be "done" for many, many years!

...but I can only hope!


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## norgale

Kingred58 what your main problem is that you can't isolate any of the tracks from the rest. If you had an outside loop and an inside loop you could separate them with the plastic railjoiners. I'm no expert but that's the way it looks to me. Others will have more info for you. 
That certainly is a nice layout and I can see why the kids want to be part of the action. Nice work. Pete


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## kingred58

*Layout update*

A quick update on our layout. Thought we'd take some photos to document our progress...

A few before the cliffs...


















Got the cliffs sculpted and washed. Managed to match the paint / color / texture of the other hills. 

I think they fit in really nicely! Looking forward to putting some ground foam on soon...















Thanks again for all the advice! We've got two of three transformers up and running. Hoping to get a "finished" switch assembled soon (with the help of LHS expert)

Happy spring to all!


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## tjcruiser

Excellent job on sculpting those cliff faces, along with the realistic multi-tone paint. Nice work!

TJ


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## kingred58

*Back to the layout! Need feedback!*

So after a long absence, we're back to the forum! (Actually, we've been hard at work, just haven't posted yet this "season")

Our Oakville Junction layout has continued development and expansion with photos to follow soon. Since last post, Santa was good enough to drop off Bachmann DCC controller and some DCC engines - SWEET! Dad has also been hard at work, scratch building new structures, while Jr. has become enthralled with electricity and lighting the layout. Love the MANY aspects of this hobby!

In the mean time, was hoping to get some feedback from the experts.

Eventually we (8yo & myself) will be making the transition from EZ Track to flex track and wanted to try out some new modelling techniques - water, foam track bed, ballast, etc. So we made a little diorama (12"x12") with some scrap MDF & foam. 








As this is our first go at ballast, I'd love to get any feedback & tips you could offer. Was really fun to do - look forward to trying out on our yard (and later on rest of layout after we update from EZ Track.) 









I really like the way the water came out - just clear silicone caulk applied nice and thin and then surface patterns "painted" with the back of a plastic spoon. Feedback?









Thanks for continued responses. We have framed out an expansion / yard that we desperately need guidance on. Will hopefully post pictures and details soon.

Kingred


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## kingred58

Actually, I'm wondering if it's time to switch to a new thread, as this title has little to do with our current content (more of a layout update / guidance request).

What's the protocol - start a new thread under layout update or just keep adding to current thread?

Kingred


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## joed2323

you could start a my layout under the my layout section...

looking good so far, what method did you use making those rocks and such, looks real


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## tjcruiser

kingred58 said:


> Actually, I'm wondering if it's time to switch to a new thread, as this title has little to do with our current content (more of a layout update / guidance request).
> 
> What's the protocol - start a new thread under layout update or just keep adding to current thread?
> 
> Kingred


Kingred,

By all means, feel free to start a new thread in the HO section or the My Layout section. You might include a link to this thread in your first post, so that there's some continuity for readers.

I have to say again how much I like your layout ... great use of the space, beautiful scenery, etc.

Cheers,

TJ


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