# Newbie frustration



## Jimbooregon (Nov 28, 2017)

Hi all,
I'm a very new newbie...I'm in the research phase which has been an eye opener. I'm reading a lot of RR history and that's fun for me. I need to save up to really start, but that puts the brakes on impulse spending mistakes.
Here's my query... I've decided on HO scale (69 yo eyes) and want to model the transition era in the Pacific NW... so Northern Pacific, and Great Northern come to mind. What's got me frustrated is in "dream searching" for diesels there seems to be a lack of better quality E&F EMD locos in NP & GN livery. The more modern diesels seem to better represented by manufacturers....argh what to to do. I know run what you want etc. but??? Is limiting one's choices to one or two lines self defeating??
I'm retired and living in Morocco, so visiting shops and shows is out. Thank God for the net 

Any ideas welcome.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Have you checked out www.Intermountain-Railway.com? They are showing GN's and NP's in both F3 and F7's.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I wish I had stuck with 2 or 3 roads. I am all over the place with over 130 locos.
Stick with what you want. They are out there. I only run UP, MoPac, BN. 1970s.
That's what ran through my area here in Missouri.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

http://www.hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?cat_s=UBC&tag3_i=1006


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Welcome to the forum. I'm also modeling the Pacific NW in the mid 1950s. I'm running only GN locomotives along with cars from other roads that you'd typically find in the PNW. I've enjoyed the restriction and research needed to find equipment that would be appropriate for my time period and geographical location. I've learned a fair amount about the history of the railroads as a result. My philosophy has been to be plausible, but not necessarily 100% accurate. For example I selected towns/cities where the GN passed through and found businesses that were there at the time, but the exact buildings and their locations aren't accurate. You just need to decide what rules (or lack there of) you want to set up for your railroad. If you find something frustrating, then relax whatever rule was driving that frustration.

Mark


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## Jimbooregon (Nov 28, 2017)

Thanks all for your help/suggestions. And Mark can you refer me to a source that gives type of rolling stock, which lines cars you'd most likely see? 
I love doing the historical background reading too. For me, the history is half the fun.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

While it would be great if manufacturers would make low-rate production runs of every locomotive and paint scheme imaginable, in the real world they have to make fairly large production runs of locomotives and paint schemes that they think will sell out. The trend is even towards pre-ordering, where they "float" a loco and livery, then see how many pre-orders they get. If they can't hit the minimum number to make it profitable, they cancel the run.

I share your pain. There are several early diesels (and one electric) in New Haven livery that I would like to have. But short of a custom build and paint job, it looks like they will forever be on my wish list.

An unfortunate drawback to a niche hobby like this one.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Jimbooregon said:


> Thanks all for your help/suggestions. And Mark can you refer me to a source that gives type of rolling stock, which lines cars you'd most likely see?
> I love doing the historical background reading too. For me, the history is half the fun.


I've collected a lot of books on the Great Northern over the years. I have both history and "picture" books. I tend to look for pictures of yards or complete trains to see what freight cars are visible. A couple of picture books that I like are "Great Northern In Color Volume 1: Lines West" and "GN Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment" both by David H. Hickcox. As far as cars go, you're safe with Northern Pacific, Union Pacific, Canadian National, Canadian Northwest, Milwaukee Road, and Great Northern. For the 1950s, box cars are going to be 40 ft, not the longer more modern lengths. Washington State also grows a lot of apples, so I have several Western Fruit Express ice refers on my layout. I was once about to buy a Soo Line boxcar since I'd seen so many when I was a kid, but then found out Soo Line didn't exist in the 50s, so that nixed that purchase.

There are many history books and I've got a few. One that I've really enjoyed is "The Rusty Dusty - Great Northern's Wenatchee-Oroville Branch" by Mac McCulloch and John E. Langlot. This was written in 2016 and gets into a lot of detail about central Washington state. I ended up picking Wenatchee as one of my towns on my layout. Another place to do research is city historical societies and their web pages. You can often find old newspaper articles that talk about the railroads during a certain time period.

Being that my layout is in the mid 1950s, one of my early frustrations was finding an EMD F7 in Great Northern original Empire Builder colors. There are a few manufactures that make model F7s in the "Simplified" EB color scheme, but that wouldn't be appropriate for the mid 50s. I finally found an F7 in the original EB colors from Walthers. Had to scoop that up when I found it. After I got it, it had silver painted trucks and undercarriage. I thought that couldn't be right, but I found a picture of my exact model in one of my picture books with silver trucks dated in the mid 50s. They didn't keep the silver trucks for long since they were hard to keep looking clean. Glad I held out to find the right model and have the picture book to authenticate its looks.

Mark


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I can understand your frustration. Although my layout has a freelance railroad, I do connect to both the Milwaukee Road and the Northern Pacific. I started my layout over 30 years ago and there were no accurate models of any Northern Pacific diesels and I found myself having to custom paint my own. 

When I was a kid, we rode the North Coast Limited on a regular basis from Montana to Chicago where we connected to the south Shore Line to visit relatives in Indiana. 

I love the Lowey paint scheme and did find an Athearn Genisis F-7A a number of years back and did acquire some Walthers passenger cars but the NP usually used an A-B-A consist to pull the NCL.

ncrc5315 mentioned looking at Intermountain. They do have some nice equipment for the NP. I had looked at it but being that I am a lone operator and run DC only at home, I passed because what I could find was DCC or quite expensive. 

I ended finding some Stewart EMD units, an F-3A and an F-9B. The problem is that they lacked road numbers and a lot of detail. Also the dark green color was not correct so I ended up repainting and adding details. Here's what I came up with. 










Here a link to the build of these locomotives. 

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=141889

I can see your frustration over these railroads. Walthers offered the Empire Builder a few years back but I am sure that they are most likely all sold out. Here it is running at my model railroad club in Livingston, MT.






I am also disappointed at the way the Northern Pacific has been neglected by the model manufacturers. For as large a railroad that it was, it doesn't have much representation in the model world.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Expanding your choices*



Jimbooregon said:


> Hi all,
> I'm a very new newbie...I'm in the research phase which has been an eye opener. I'm reading a lot of RR history and that's fun for me. I need to save up to really start, but that puts the brakes on impulse spending mistakes.
> Here's my query... I've decided on HO scale (69 yo eyes) and want to model the transition era in the Pacific NW... so Northern Pacific, and Great Northern come to mind. What's got me frustrated is in "dream searching" for diesels there seems to be a lack of better quality E&F EMD locos in NP & GN livery. The more modern diesels seem to better represented by manufacturers....argh what to to do. I know run what you want etc. but??? Is limiting one's choices to one or two lines self defeating??
> I'm retired and living in Morocco, so visiting shops and shows is out. Thank God for the net
> ...


Jimbooregon;

I understand your frustration. I'm another Pacific Northwest modeler, only I model part of the Milwaukee Road near Seattle, in N-scale. If you think finding NP and GN locos is frustrating (it is) try finding something in Milwaukee! Fortunately there are undecorated F-units, and other diesels & steamers available. Paint and decals too. You may be able to get the roster you want by painting and decaling your locomotives to the railroad of your choice.

good luck in your quest;

Photos below show my N-scale Seattle union Station.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Links to beginner's information*



Jimbooregon said:


> Hi all,
> I'm a very new newbie...I'm in the research phase which has been an eye opener. I'm reading a lot of RR history and that's fun for me. I need to save up to really start, but that puts the brakes on impulse spending mistakes.
> Here's my query... I've decided on HO scale (69 yo eyes) and want to model the transition era in the Pacific NW... so Northern Pacific, and Great Northern come to mind. What's got me frustrated is in "dream searching" for diesels there seems to be a lack of better quality E&F EMD locos in NP & GN livery. The more modern diesels seem to better represented by manufacturers....argh what to to do. I know run what you want etc. but??? Is limiting one's choices to one or two lines self defeating??
> I'm retired and living in Morocco, so visiting shops and shows is out. Thank God for the net
> ...


 Jimbooregon;

These links to pdf files have info that might help with your general research.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

View attachment Where do I start (revised version).pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

traction fan said:


> Jimbooregon;
> 
> I understand your frustration. I'm another Pacific Northwest modeler, only I model part of the Milwaukee Road near Seattle, in N-scale. If you think finding NP and GN locos is frustrating (it is) try finding something in Milwaukee! Fortunately there are undecorated F-units, and other diesels & steamers available. Paint and decals too. You may be able to get the roster you want by painting and decaling your locomotives to the railroad of your choice.
> 
> ...


Just saw the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha will be offered. Saw it in the latest MR magazine.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Hiawatha*



Chet said:


> Just saw the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha will be offered. Saw it in the latest MR magazine.


 Thanks Chet;

If you mean the classic streamlined Atlantic steam loco powered Hiawatha, It ran from Milwaukee, WI. to Chicago, IL. My railroad is located near Seattle, WA. The only Hiawatha that ran that far west was the Olympian Hiawatha, which was powered by Fairbanks-Morse "Erie Built" diesels and electric locos. At least that's my excuse for not spending a lot of money on that beautiful train.:laugh: Still, thanks for the tip.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

The Hiawatha I saw had a EMD F-7A and B with quite a few cars. We also rode the Hiawatha Olympian quite a few times from Montana to Chicago when I was growing up. With relatives working on both the Milwaukee Road and the Northern Pacific, we could ride first class to Chicago and then take the South Shore Line into Indiana to visit relatives. 

The train we took, the Hiawatha or the North Coast limited was a toss up. We took which ever train that had first class facilities available. I think I enjoyed the train ride as much as getting to the destination. Passenger train travel was great back in the late 50's and early 60's.


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