# Any truth about Lionel going out of business?



## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

A friend sent Me an article stating that Lionel is in the process of going out of business in the very near future.

Any truth to this at all?


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## SF 5011 (May 25, 2017)

davidone said:


> A friend sent Me an article stating that Lionel is in the process of going out of business in the very near future.
> 
> Any truth to this at all?


Hello guys and gals..

If they keep messing up the quality control or too many defects they WILL go out of business. I wouldn't miss them if they did !! I quit buying lionel since 2015 due to defects as I just gotten tired of fixing their problems at my expenses !!! My last lionel was a # 19240 silver double door boxcar and purchased a new pair of die-cast trucks #6-14078 for it but the truck side frames were bend inward to keep the wheel sets from falling out and one of the axle was bend so it will fall out. I had to straighten out the axle and bend outward of the side frame of the truck to fix it after that it stayed fixed. I been fixing and repairing lionel trains from the MPC era to the LTI era for last 40 years and every one of them always needs something, it used to be fun but the fun died just had enough !! If I collect lionel, it will be postwar 1946 to 1966 era.

Tiffany


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

davidone said:


> A friend sent Me an article stating that Lionel is in the process of going out of business in the very near future.
> 
> Any truth to this at all?


I have not seen any recent article to this effect and a search turned up nothing. Do you have link to it or can you say when and where it was published? 

Since Lionel is still announcing new products it seems unlikely that they are intending to fold up although a change in ownership would not shock me.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Lionel going out of business comes up every now and then. Lionel is owned by a Capitol Venture firm, their previous owner was a Capitol Venture firm. I would not be surprised if Guggenheim Capitol Management is looking to divest themselves of Lionel but they would be selling the business to another company or individual.

Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Hey, could we possibly get a copy of the article. No offense meant, but many rumors and mis-information - "alternative facts," are created on the internet becausd someone says "I saw an article that . . ." or "a friend said that.. . ". 

If someone has a hard-fact article about Lionel preparing to go out of business, I would really like to see it.

But the only articles _I have see myself _are speculations based on incomplete data(Lionel is a private company and not obligated to share financials) from general observations of Lionel's business, operating decisions (its quality problems, move and size of new facilities), the general lack of growth perceived for the industry. I have no seen anything that hints at more than that.

Can you possibly scan the article and post an image here, or get a link to it?

Thanks.


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

It would also be interesting to see the date on the article. If you Google the subject, the number of articles on Lionel going out of business is extensive, but then you look at the date and they go back as far as 2004. Any undated article is going to be pretty suspect.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Lionel is going out of business & the hobby is dying.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

From the NYT, COMPANY NEWS; LIONEL WILL LIQUIDATE









*This rumor has been around for a LOOOOONG time, note the date. *


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Spence said:


> Lionel is going out of business & the hobby is dying.


And the world is coming to the end!!!


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

It was a business article about company's that were close to the edge of bankruptcy. I myself could not find the article online after doing a search. 
This is why my post was a question not a fact on my part. I wanted to see if somebody else saw this article and could confirm what I just read. 

I contacted my friend to ask a few questions and he told me he did not read the article but did see the words like Lionel and thought I would like it beings I into trains. The date of the article is also unknown. 

So it seems it was fake news or a very old news. President Trump, just may be right about fake news though! Lol


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

One of these years and probably in the not-too-distant future, it WON'T be fake news.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Maybe we can all pull are money together and purchase LIONEL and call it MTF LIONEL?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I think Guggenheim Capitol Management would put Lionel up on the auction block if they thought they could get a decent return on their investment.

It was about 20 years ago that Mike Wolf said he would purchase Lionel at the right price. Not sure what the right price is but it has to be less than what it was 20 years ago.

Bill


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## JimL (Aug 16, 2015)

How does Lionel and MTH compare? Who sells more trains? With and without MTH's involvement in HO.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

JimL said:


> How does Lionel and MTH compare? Who sells more trains? With and without MTH's involvement in HO.


For just O Gauge it has to be Lionel, for all gauges, I am guessing Kader Industries followed by MTH.

Bill


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

laz57 said:


> Maybe we can all pull are money together and purchase LIONEL and call it MTF LIONEL?


Many Train Fellows



JimL said:


> How does Lionel and MTH compare? Who sells more trains? With and without MTH's involvement in HO.


I would say it's a personal thing. I don't care for MTH, but there are a lot who do and some of them don't like Lionel. Both companies have annoyed us in the past.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Just my small opinion, but when I think "Lionel", I'm mostly not even thinking modern era, not because I'm an old fogey (truth), but because I still mentally lean on the tradition and aura Lionel brought to us all that ended in the 60s and then took several turns after that, some of them good, many not good. Modern Lionel is not postwar, but that's the stuff that is easy and fun to fix and works for me. My son, now 14, is interested in Lionel, but he's more interested in modern-day stuff. i think fine, once you're out there working and earning $, we'll start moving toward the present, because the name alone will dictate trains with that name after most of us are gone...IMHO


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

DennyM said:


> Many Train Fellows
> 
> 
> I would say it's a personal thing. I don't care for MTH, but there are a lot who do and some of them don't like Lionel. Both companies have annoyed us in the past.


And it varies with time. Twelve years ago, when I got back into O-Gauge (from N) is was a 100% Lionel guy. I had good luck with Lionel then. I didn't like MTH - the new upstart. 

Now, I slightly prefer MTH. Frankly I love their stuff but think the "wireless" tether they make for their steamers is so bad it is a design defect. Otherwise, they clearly make better products for slightly less money than Lionel. Their low friction bearings are lower friction than Lionel's , their passenger cars better detailed (if not longer), and their $1500 steamers more detailed with better smoke, even if they sound slightly worse than Lionel. I love LC+, but that is the only enthusiasm I have left for Lionel today. They have disappointed me too many times. 

My greatest fear about Lionel going out of business is this: the industry needs two strong companies so competition between then drives innovation and keeps price low. MTH without Lionel in the marketplace would not be the MTH I have come to respect if still not love the way I once did Lionel.

Dang, I wish K-Line had not imploded themselves . . .


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Lee Willis said:


> And it varies with time. Twelve years ago, when I got back into O-Gauge (from N) is was a 100% Lionel guy. I had good luck with Lionel then. I didn't like MTH - the new upstart.
> 
> Now, I slightly prefer MTH. Frankly I love their stuff but think the "wireless" tether they make for their steamers is so bad it is a design defect. Otherwise, they clearly make better products for slightly less money than Lionel. Their low friction bearings are lower friction than Lionel's , their passenger cars better detailed (if not longer), and their $1500 steamers more detailed with better smoke, even if they sound slightly worse than Lionel. I love LC+, but that is the only enthusiasm I have left for Lionel today. They have disappointed me too many times.
> 
> ...


I really like MTH/RailKing rolling stock. especially the passenger cars. I also like their buildings and accessories.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have lots of Lionel and MTH. I wish that Atlas was more competitive and had stuff that I was interested in, but they rarely seem to have anything I'd want. I cringe when an Atlas locomotive comes in for repair, many of them are a giant PITA to work on, which makes me avoid Atlas motive power as a rule. They do have some nice looking passenger cars.

If I had to live with only one manufacturer, it would be a tough call. I like locomotives from both makers, but I think MTH has more competitive rolling stock and passenger cars as a rule.

As for control systems, I like the Lionel Legacy sounds and operational reliability. DCS is a bit too picky for me on many layouts, and the complexity of storing the database in each remote was a mistake IMO. Since Lionel has gone to their current Legacy electronics package, I've really been impressed with the capabilities. OTOH, the PS/3 stuff seems to have dropped in reliability when compared to the PS/2 3V boards that were the staple before PS/3. As Lee pointed out, the MTH "Wireless" drawbar is a royal PITA, and should have never made it out of beta test!  Lionel's truly wireless drawbar just works, and coupling up a Lionel steamer is painless when compared to an MTH steamer.

I personally hope that both companies continue to innovate, and with a little luck Menards or someone like them will come and give them a run for their money.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Dang, I wish K-Line had not imploded themselves . . .


Dang, I couldn't agree more!!!


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

i had some K-Line engines. the WP F7 ABA that came with the initial CZ set i bought. some UP E7 ABA. Did they make that B6 0-6-0?

i general, i found their engines problematic. there was so much stuff crammed into the inside of that F7 lead A that there was no room for a smoke unit and the incredibly thick bundle of wires from the tether eventually broke loose and rubbed against the rear flywheel. 

i gave up on them.


OTH, i have a bunch of their passenger cars, all 15", and find them to be splendid. 

i have some rolling stock, but missed out on the girl in the moon Millers reefer. they went under right as it was coming out.

i, too, wish they were still around.

if they were, however, we might not have Menards and i am liking Menards a bunch.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a few K-Line locomotives, I haven't had any serious issues with them. I have the excellent PRR Train Master, it had plenty of space for the smoke unit. I also have the CNJ Tank Engine, a really cool little piece.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

The K-Line Collector Club was the best ever. Super great prices on the Collector Club locomotives.

Bill


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