# Lionel 221W Tender Problem



## Slo-Bee

I have a Lionel 221 locomotive and 221W tender being powered by a modern 80W lionel "Powerhouse" transformer. My problem is that after approx 5 - 10 minutes of use, the whistle on the tender energizes on it's own and does not stop until I unplug the system for a few minutes. The whistle switch on the transformer control sounds like it is actually adding extra voltage to the tender whistle when this problem manifests itself (i.e. the whistle motor runs slightly faster). Any help from the experts would be greatly appreciated.


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## tjcruiser

Problem could be either with the transformer, or with the relay switch in the whistle tender.

Quick background summary (you may already know this) ... 

Lionel O runs on AC power. The whistle motor itself also runs on AC, but it is wired to a DC-sensitive relay switch. When you hit the whistle button on the transformer, the transformer should send out a 3 volt DC signal (approximately) that's superimosed on the regular AC output power. The relay in the tender sees the DC, toggles a contact plate over to the "on" position, which in turn, completes a circuit such that AC power can now run to the whistle motor. I'm not sure about your transformer, but on some whistle controllers, the 3V DC drops quickly down to about 1V DC, which is still enough to hold the relay switch into position.

So, all of that said ...

Either your transformer is getting confused on how much DC signal it should be sending out when you hit the button, or the relay switch in the tender is engaging (turning on ... or staying on) when it sees something other than 1 to 3 V DC.

Any chance you can isolate the problem by running the whistle tender on a different transformer (with whistle control) ???

TJ


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## T-Man

My guess is the transformer is sending a contiuous DC pulse. The button stuck????


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## T-Man

I found this CCT article

SOunds like the button is electronic and non fixable.
It may be salvageable if you know how to dissconnect the button. Of course it would whistless.


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## Slo-Bee

Thanks for all the info . . . I appreciate you guys spending the time to help. The whistle button on the transformer is non-latching and is not stuck. Can you put a multi-meter on the track somehow to see if the 1 - 3 VDC signal is continuously there? If so, to which rails would you attach the + and - leads of multi-meter . . . I'm assuming the center rail and any suitable ground. Thanks again!


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## tjcruiser

I did a little experiment, and put the theory to the test, using my CW80 transformer and a multimeter ...

Yes, when I hit the whistle button, I see a +2.4V DC voltage between the center rail and either of the outer rails. That's about the right amount to toggle the whistle relay switch to "on", engaging the whistle motor. I had + (red) multimeter to center rail, - (black) multimeter lead to out rail.

Interestingly, the 2.4 V held steady, as long as I pushed the button. I didn't see a drop down to about 1 V DC, which is what I've read happens internally on some old, stand-alone (not in the transformer) whistle controllers.

Regards,

TJ


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## Slo-Bee

Thanks TJ! I'll try the same test myself when I get a spare moment.
Slo-Bee


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## tjcruiser

Slo-Bee,

Some interesting related dilaog about whistle voltage jump in the thread here, starting at Post #19 ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5528

TJ


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## Chooch

*Problems myself*

Here's my problem. I have both a set of regular O gauge and a set of fastrack. I have two modern 8632's (Penn flyer and Santa Fe engines) and an old 671rr with a 2046W-50 whistling tender. I have a Tech II transformer and a totally reconditioned ZW 275 that was made in the late 50s. 

Both 8632's run excellent on both tracks and both tenders. My 671rr runs the best using the ZW because the Tech II just doesn't output enough power to properly run it. 

And now to the problem. Using either transformer, the tender will only whistle when it's the only thing sitting on either track. As soon as I add any engine, it just won't whistle. If it's the only thing sitting on the track, it takes just a little bit of power and it whistles loud and clear. 

Any thoughts? Is the wire I'm using too dinky? It's regular lionel fastrack wire. Please help 

I told the guy who reconditioned both the 671rr and the 2046W-50 about my problem and he had no idea and told me to research the problem myself. Go figure


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## tjcruiser

We had a near identical question thread on this in the past week or two. Do a quick Search in the O section, and see if you can find the thread. I'll do the same.

TJ


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