# slowing train



## LNM (Feb 28, 2015)

I have O gauge trains and one of my layouts is on a slight incline which means come back down on the other side. Is there any way to slow the decent automatically without manually slowing it with the controller.

Thanks
lnm


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

How big a layout? Can you slow the train with the transformer now? Its a conventional layout, right? How long is the downgrade? Can you lessen it? What kind of transformer do you have?


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## LNM (Feb 28, 2015)

sjm9911 said:


> How big a layout? Can you slow the train with the transformer now? Its a conventional layout, right? How long is the downgrade? Can you lessen it? What kind of transformer do you have?


The downgrade is approx. a 2.5% grade for about for about 16 feet. Yes I can slow it with the controller. I am using an Atlas Model no. 100080 but can switch to a Lionel CW 80 or an older LIonel Type 1033 90 Watt. Would be very difficult to lessen the grade.

Thanks
lnm


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

OK, a few things, I lessened my grade with ridged foam insulation. But if thats out, you could try moving your lock ons away from the downgrade, maybe even eliminate one. Sometimes that works. The other thing you can try is to make a block. This would require another transformer or a transformer with a second throttle. They must be phased, when the train hits the block section it would automatically switch to the lower voltage. There might be a way to wire in resistors so the voltage is always lower inbthat area, but I don't know how-to do it. Just some ideas.


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## LNM (Feb 28, 2015)

sjm9911 said:


> OK, a few things, I lessened my grade with ridged foam insulation. But if thats out, you could try moving your lock ons away from the downgrade, maybe even eliminate one. Sometimes that works. The other thing you can try is to make a block. This would require another transformer or a transformer with a second throttle. They must be phased, when the train hits the block section it would automatically switch to the lower voltage. There might be a way to wire in resistors so the voltage is always lower inbthat area, but I don't know how-to do it. Just some ideas.


Thanks for your suggestions

Lnm


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## longle (Mar 7, 2015)

sjm9911 said:


> OK, a few things, I lessened my grade with ridged foam insulation. But if thats out, you could try moving your lock ons away from the downgrade, maybe even eliminate one. Sometimes that works. The other thing you can try is to make a block. This would require another transformer or a transformer with a second throttle. They must be phased, when the train hits the block section it would automatically switch to the lower voltage. There might be a way to wire in resistors so the voltage is always lower inbthat area, but I don't know how-to do it. Just some ideas.


To expand a little on this. If you insulated the downhill section of track with it's own power connector from the same transformer and added a resistor in-line on the hot wire, as soon as the engine hit that section it should slow down automatically due to lower voltage. As soon as it leaves the insulated section it should resume normal speed. It would take some experimenting but might do what you're looking for.

Larry


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

See lots of ways to do it! Longle, thanks for the info!


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## LNM (Feb 28, 2015)

longle said:


> To expand a little on this. If you insulated the downhill section of track with it's own power connector from the same transformer and added a resistor in-line on the hot wire, as soon as the engine hit that section it should slow down automatically due to lower voltage. As soon as it leaves the insulated section it should resume normal speed. It would take some experimenting but might do what you're looking for.
> 
> Larry


I am not to good at understanding how to insulate the downhill trackand what kind of resistor would this be. Where would I acquire a resistor of this type

Thanks
Lnm


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## longle (Mar 7, 2015)

The downhill section would be connected to the rest of the track at each end using insulating pins rather than the regular metal ones. That means that section of track is powered by it's own connection to the transformer. Whichever rail is connected to the base post on the rest of the track has to be the same rail on the insulated section. As far as a resistor goes it depends on whether there is still a Radio Shack in your area and even then they may not have exactly what you need. As a rough guess I would think a 10-15% drop would probably accomplish what you want. Do you know anyone locally who can help with that? I have tons of resistors (I refurb antique tube radios) but only have American Flyer to experiment with which may not generate the same results as you need.

If you're not comfortable with something like this I would try something else. If it's not done right it could damage equipment.

Larry


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The center rail would be the only rail that needs isolation. There are fiber pins for three rail tubular track . One in each end of the section thst needs to be slowed. For fasttrack a quick cut in the rail with a dremal will work. As for the resistor type , I haven't a clue! I don't think there expensive so you might want to buy a few and try them out.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

To get the exact rating of the resistor you would need the
amp draw of the loco. Or, maybe Gun Runner John can come
up with a suggestions without going into the math.

If you can measure to amp draw and at what voltage you
got it I could probably tell you the resistance needed.

I would also need to know what voltage would be desired
on the downhill track.

Don


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## LNM (Feb 28, 2015)

sjm9911 said:


> The center rail would be the only rail that needs isolation. There are fiber pins for three rail tubular track . One in each end of the section thst needs to be slowed. For fasttrack a quick cut in the rail with a dremal will work. As for the resistor type , I haven't a clue! I don't think there expensive so you might want to buy a few and try them out.


When you isolate the center rail doesn't that completely cut power to the train when it enters that section. Also earlier in this discussion it was suggested that I run another wire from my controller the the section I want to slow and then use resistors. If I do that do I just connect another set of wires the terminals of the controller. I am new to all of this so do appreciate all your help.

Thanks
lnm


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## Toscano Railroad (May 30, 2014)

i am pretty sure he wants to slow down on decent only. i had the same problem--adjusted my incline. there is a way with relays and diodes to adjust the decent voltage only . i saw the circuit in another post.


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## LNM (Feb 28, 2015)

Toscano Railroad said:


> i am pretty sure he wants to slow down on decent only. i had the same problem--adjusted my incline. there is a way with relays and diodes to adjust the decent voltage only . i saw the circuit in another post.


I have isolated the section that I want to slow down with isolation pins on the middle rail and then hooked it to another transformer which I can now control the decent speed The other transformer is set for the incline speed after the isolation section. My concern and question is will this hurt the locomotive when it switches from one voltage to another each time it makes a lap around the track over and over again. It seems to spark a little as it changes from one voltage to another. It would seem to me that it is no different then increasing the voltage manually to increase the speed of your train, but maybe the instant change from one voltage to another is different. Comments are very much appreciated.

Thanks
lnm


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Deleted -- wrong topic (somehow).


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It was discussed to add diodes to an engine to draw more current to get more smoke. Instead of an engine mount add those diodes to the downgrade middle rail and it will slow the engine if the throttle stays constant. It was two strings of four diodes in series. Each string was opposing in parallel. 3 amp rated diodes.

The thread link
A fine thread by Erkenbrand
Also found under the troubleshooting section: more diodes more smoke.

The resistor would be very large. You could also use a prewar rheostat, They are adjustable and can be shocking at our present day. Being an unsafe toy it adds to your excitement.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

LNM said:


> I have isolated the section that I want to slow down with isolation pins on the middle rail and then hooked it to another transformer which I can now control the decent speed The other transformer is set for the incline speed after the isolation section. My concern and question is will this hurt the locomotive when it switches from one voltage to another each time it makes a lap around the track over and over again. It seems to spark a little as it changes from one voltage to another. It would seem to me that it is no different then increasing the voltage manually to increase the speed of your train, but maybe the instant change from one voltage to another is different. Comments are very much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> lnm[/QUOTE
> ...


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## LNM (Feb 28, 2015)

*phasing*



sjm9911 said:


> LNM said:
> 
> 
> > I have isolated the section that I want to slow down with isolation pins on the middle rail and then hooked it to another transformer which I can now control the decent speed The other transformer is set for the incline speed after the isolation section. My concern and question is will this hurt the locomotive when it switches from one voltage to another each time it makes a lap around the track over and over again. It seems to spark a little as it changes from one voltage to another. It would seem to me that it is no different then increasing the voltage manually to increase the speed of your train, but maybe the instant change from one voltage to another is different. Comments are very much appreciated.
> ...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Phasing is the term used in AC current that has the same
effect as Polarity matching in DC current.

From what you have said, it sounds like you have your
layout in phase. You would get a serious spark and
possibly trigger circuit breakers if your loco rolled over
the joint and the current was out of phase. You would
be doing a low voltage version of sticking a wire into
both slots of your wall AC outlet.

If you were getting sparks and shorts, you would simply
flip the wires on ONE of the transformers. That would
put your two transformers in phase. Or you could simply
FLIP the power plug of ONE transformer.

Don


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## Toscano Railroad (May 30, 2014)

i have the same situation ! has anyone here accually read the original post . both of us want to decrease the track voltage going down only. all the solutions so far decrease the track voltage for both directions and require manual control of the throttle. i would like to have some automatic feature to do this so i can just let my trains run without the need for hands on. any answers????


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The OP said he wants to automatically slow his train when it descends on the
side of his layout that is not level.

To do that he must lower the track voltage on that downward slant. That
can be done first by installing insulated pins in the center rails. 

Then make a connection from the main center rail current through a 
voltage dropping resistor to the isolated section center rail. This would
be the preferred method since the track voltage, including the 
isolated section, would always be controlled by one transformer.

A second way, is to power the isolated track
with a 2nd transformer using the speed control
of it to lower the voltage. That appears to be what he has done. Yes, he
will have to set the speed levers to achieve the automatic running but once
set the train will slow (or actually maintain speed without running faster)
on that section, then resume set speed when it reaches the main part of
the layout. The downside is that the main transformer would control the
speed only for the unisolated part of the layout.

Don


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Toscano Railroad said:


> i have the same situation ! has anyone here accually read the original post . both of us want to decrease the track voltage going down only. all the solutions so far decrease the track voltage for both directions and require manual control of the throttle. i would like to have some automatic feature to do this so i can just let my trains run without the need for hands on. any answers????


Without bringing up who's reading comprehension is better, why don't you explain what exactly your trying to do. Start with the track layout, do you have a dogbone and plan to run your train up and down a slope in both directions? Its hard to help without information!


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## Toscano Railroad (May 30, 2014)

hello again,
what difference does my layout have to do with it. I have a double mainline layout with a 14' isolated ramp to connect two levels. I can run my trains at a voltage that can make it up the ramp and run around the layout. when the trains come back down the ramp, at that same voltage, they are going too fast . I want to automatically decrease the voltage for the isolated track of the ramp going down only. I do not want to use another transformer or have to throttle my ZW. I saw this circuit in another post a while back, but I can't find it. I think the circuit uses a relay and some diodes. I hope this helps ! THANKS


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thats the difference! Your going up and down the ramp and the op was just going down.  Totally different scenario. It works if you throttle it down right? Sometimes , if the grade is too much it wouldn't matter about the voltage. Now , to the problem. I would think a resistor as Don said to drop the voltage, but there would have to be a bypass for the way up. Since you want it to work automatically, I would think some sort of switch to cut power to the resistors on the way up. I don't now exactly how it would work. Others might have ideas, ill have to think about it a bit more.


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