# A Point of Progress in the New Layout. (July 2, 2022 Update)



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, we're slowly moving forward. I got the layout design back and double checked it, it still seems to fit in the space allotted.  Now the wait after the order for it to actually show up!


----------



## DMASSO

Good luck with your efforts. Should be very nice.


----------



## empire builder

GRJ looks like a nice area for engines to stretch there legs. what is the 30x12' overhang for?

is the 4' green area the lift up bridge to gain access to inner layout? 
how high does that lift area open up to?


----------



## 86TA355SR

Excited to see your progress. I can't think of anyone more deserving of a layout than you. Now you'll have a 'testing ground' for all those cool electronic projects you build/bring us!


----------



## cramden

Looks like a nice layout for trains GRJ, well thought out for ease of access and reach. Ah, the wait for bench work. It's well worth it, I couldn't be happier with the 8x6 set up I ordered from Mianne. Easy to put together and no mess at all dealing with a newly carpeted spare bedroom. Enjoy the journey.


----------



## Spence

The journey begins. :thumbsup:


----------



## papa3rail

A blank canvas,enjoy


----------



## Guest

Looking good, John. The 12x2 ft. elevated area?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys, it'll be an adventure! 

The elevated section is going to have a town with EZ-Streets, I'm visualizing a dogbone at each end and being able to have two-way traffic side by side. I'll have to consult with the Streets expert to see what works.


----------



## Bill Webb

Looks gooD John. Look forward to watching the progress.


----------



## Guest

*"The elevated section is going to have a town with EZ-Streets, I'm visualizing a dogbone at each end and being able to have two-way traffic side by side. I'll have to consult with the Streets expert to see what works".*

Great idea, John.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Here's something like I envision. I'm also going to see if I can put the curves toward the back and make it a lopsided dogbone.


----------



## SantaFeJim

Have Fun !!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## BobS

The benchwork will be loads of fun. Just like assembling tinker toys as a kid. Lots and lots of parts. I wish I could be there.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm guessing, other than the lift gate, it should be a very quick build. Then I am going to run the bus wires before putting on the plywood top.


----------



## Guest

*"Then I am going to run the bus wires before putting on the plywood top."*

Smart move, John. That's what we did and it makes the wiring process a whole lot easier. :thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

The benchwork plan looks very good, John. I can see a really nice layout coming to life.


----------



## Bob Phillips

Maybe you could have a North Penn work shop over.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

Exciting times ahead for you, John. Very happy for you! 

David


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys, I'm getting pumped! 

Bob, we are going to have a NPOG work day, or maybe a couple of them!


----------



## MichaelE

Is this a pre-fab benchwork package or just the plans?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Michael, it's a complete package. The only thing you don't get is the plywood for the top, that you have to add yourself.


----------



## Wood

Good luck with the layout John. You'll do a great job. I will be following your progress.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, now the wait for Mianne to actually ship the stuff!


----------



## cole226

good for you John. :appl:

bout time to get you up off the floor. :hah:


----------



## tankist

Looks very promising. 
I assume there is a track plan or is still work in progress? Curious to see )


----------



## Krieglok

Off to a great start! Can't wait to see the track plan too!

Tom


----------



## empire builder

good for you John I hope the benchwork arrives soon am sure this has been a dream of many years for you. 
so have you gotten settled in and all the moving headaches over with?
when do you plan on getting other home ready for sale or has it already been sold off.

now that your in new home anything you wish was different or want to change to more personal liking!

seems like you posted a track plan of sorts or? at any rate I hope this turns out to be all you hoped for with years of operating fun.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Still working on selling the other house, they're moving slow around here right now. I hope that happens soon! 

The moving headaches are still ongoing, but at least we're living here.

Still working on a track plan, I have some ideas in my head, but nothing concrete down on paper yet. I'm still trying to figure how to add some elevated lines in.


----------



## Patrick1544

Good Luck, have fun!


----------



## ogaugeguy

:appl::appl::appl:I'm certain you'll get lots of help and suggestions from the North Penn members, John.
What do you envision topping the plywood with as a base for your mountains, hills, and other scenery? Are you planning on using layering and carving styrofoam sheets, Woodland Scenic Shaper Sheets, Plaster of Paris, papier mache, or spray foam???
Btw, John, are you planning a moratorium or otherwise limiting the number of ERR loco installs and other mods you'll be accepting from people while building your dream layout?


----------



## Traindiesel

Good luck with the build and have fun, John! You've waited a long time for this.

And I hope you have minimal headaches selling your previous home.


----------



## DennyM

Looks good John. I'm getting pumped watching your progress.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys. Sadly, the old home is still on the market, things are moving slowly in that arena. I'm hoping it doesn't start soaking up my train money, that would really be bad!


----------



## Lee Willis

John - 

I'm curious if Mianne drills wiring routing holes in all the cross pieces as a standard (all pieces have the same two or three holes) or on a custom basis (where you indicate to in the plans). 

One of the few mistakes I made when building my current layout (few only because I had made so many and learned so much on the previous seven) was not to just drill wiring routing holes through every horizontal piece under the benchtop, on general principles. A few holes in every piece would not have weakened the structure, and would have saved so much time, so many times later on.


----------



## Pat Marinari

John:

I’m really happy for you. The wait for the bench work to arrive must be torture.

Good luck & have fun.


----------



## bluecomet400

Looks great, John. I hope you're as happy with your Mianne benchwork as I am with mine. It ain't cheap, but it's a great product. 

Lee--all the I-beams have holes in them for purposes of attaching additional I-beams, legs etc. The holes also come in very handy for routing wires. I've had to drill a few extra holes in some of my I-beams, but for the most part what is there worked very well. 


John


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lee Willis said:


> John -
> 
> I'm curious if Mianne drills wiring routing holes in all the cross pieces as a standard (all pieces have the same two or three holes) or on a custom basis (where you indicate to in the plans).
> 
> One of the few mistakes I made when building my current layout (few only because I had made so many and learned so much on the previous seven) was not to just drill wiring routing holes through every horizontal piece under the benchtop, on general principles. A few holes in every piece would not have weakened the structure, and would have saved so much time, so many times later on.


They do not, but after putting up the benchwork and before the top goes on, I'm going to be making Swiss cheese in the cross pieces. 

I'm thinking along these lines, each hole will probably be 1/2". If I have all of those, I shouldn't have to be under there drilling any more holes.











Pat Marinari said:


> John:
> 
> I’m really happy for you. The wait for the bench work to arrive must be torture.
> 
> Good luck & have fun.


Pat, the whole thing has been torture, especially the move!  Tim recons it'll probably be here before York, but not much before York.


----------



## reggfx

Very nice. Are you using a program to layout your Railroad? I used "Anyrail"
Saved me a lot of money and it breaks down exactly how much track you need.

Anyway, very excited for your new layout adventure.

Wish you the best!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I have Anyrail, it's a nice program. Still a ways to go, I suspect it'll be probably late Sept or early Oct before Mianne ships the benchwork. We'll see, and you'll hear about it right after I get it.


----------



## PatKn

John,
It's great to see that you are starting on the layout. For me, planning is the best part. I tend to spend a lot of time planning before I do any building. It must feel great to finally get started.


----------



## c.midland

Congratulations on getting started on a new layout!

I'm wondering how, or if, you're planning to incorporate the upper level into the rest of the layout. Will you be using scenery such as a cliff or mountain, building fronts, or possibly nothing? I ask because I'm considering doing something similar.


----------



## DennyM

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have Anyrail, it's a nice program. Still a ways to go, I suspect it'll be probably late Sept or early Oct before Mianne ships the benchwork. We'll see, and you'll hear about it right after I get it. <img src="http://www.modeltrainforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />


Could you pick it up at York? Your not far from their booth. I'd bet some of us would help you get it to your house.


----------



## BFI66

Good luck with the project, John! Gotta be hell waiting on the benchwork to arrive. On the positive side.....you have time to finalize a track plan. 

-Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

DennyM said:


> Could you pick it up at York? Your not far from their booth. I'd bet some of us would help you get it to your house.


I actually asked about that, and Tim said he can match the price of York pickup shipped, so I'll go with the easy way and have it arrive on my doorstep.  I think he doesn't want to lug a lot of benchwork to York.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it's arrived! I laid it out and inventoried everything, the only issues is a couple of pulleys on the lift gate got crunched in shipping, so I'll have to wait for the replacements before I can build that part. A lot of little pieces. 

















Will someone please call me when this looks like a train table?


----------



## Guest

Good news, John. Now go to work.


----------



## DennyM

Finally, it only took over a month.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

After a hearty Thanksgiving Dinner, John.... you should be able to knock that out in no time flat.


----------



## Guest

This is very good news, John. Now the fun can begin.


----------



## Lehigh74

Makes me think of an erector set.


----------



## cole226

Are you done yet.


----------



## empire builder

gunrunnerjohn what is that red and black item with electric cord for?

have you started on the benchwork yet?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's the drive for the power lift-gate section. Didn't get anything done yesterday, company all day. I also have a little wall work to do before I cover it with benchwork.


----------



## Spence

Well, finally the bench work has arrived. Now we'll see some progress. Good luck GRJ.


----------



## PatKn

Great news, John. I know you have been anxious to receive the bench-work. Now the fun starts.


----------



## DennyM

You got the lift gate too? Cool!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm trying to finish some wall work before I cover it up with the benchwork, hopefully I can start assembling soon. I'm also waiting on a couple small parts for the liftgate that got damaged in shipping, those should be here next week.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

Can't wait to see the updates. Glad to see you are nearing the fun construction phase!


----------



## DennyM

Geez John, you are a lot more patient than I am. First they didn't ship when they said they would. Then when you get it, there was some damage and you have to wait another week. I'd be reading them the riot act.


----------



## SantaFeJim

DennyM said:


> Geez John, you are a lot more patient than I am. I'd be reading them the riot act.


I think GRJ is more level headed than many on this forum. He is into this outfit for several thousand $$$ they both know that there is no way he will back out.

I am also sure that they will make ever effort to resolve the minor damage issue and make GRJ whole.

We are the ones that are impatient and want to see progress. I am looking forward to his track plan. And, you don’t see me squaking.

Come on John, get it in gear and post your track plan already.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Still working on the track plan. I'm trying to do something that's fun to run on but not a ton of extra building. I also want to be able to switch from multiple independent loops to one long continuous loop. More work that I imagined.


----------



## Wood

SantaFeJim said:


> Come on John, get it in gear and post your track plan already.


Impatience personified. 

Good luck John. I am happy to see some progress. Now where's the [email protected]# track plan.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I had a couple of hours, so I figured to get my feet wet and started assembling the benchwork. Not too far, but I have the hang of the assembly now, I suspect later stages will go faster. It is pretty easy to assemble.


----------



## Millstonemike

SantaFeJim said:


> I think GRJ is more level headed than many on this forum. He is into this outfit for several thousand $$$ they both know that there is no way he will back out. ...


Hope they know all of us get the play-by-play.


----------



## Chugman

That's very exciting, John. We are all anxious for progress pictures as this odyssey unfolds.

Art


----------



## Wood

Great start John. A real beginning. Good luck and enjoy.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I put in another hour, time to knock off and watch a little TV.  The upper deck is on. I figured this is 15% or so of the build. The liftgate looks to be more complicated with cutting wood, measuring, drilling, etc.


----------



## Maxum

Looking good!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It really is easy stuff to use once you get in the groove, and I can see it'll be very solid. Every leg has a leveler as well, so I'll be able to true it up before I put the deck on.


----------



## DennyM

I anxious to see you progress.


----------



## Guest

You are off to a great start, John. You made very good progress today.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

That looks amazing John!


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

Great progress, John!!! :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Guest

Good start, John. Off and running.


----------



## Xnats

The frame work is pretty sharp looking, it will be nice seeing you post pictures of new finds on a layout.


----------



## Spence

GRJ; I found that the instructions that come with the lift gate are not the clearest. There are a couple of great how to videos on You Tube especially in reference to properly stringing the wire.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys. 

Spence, I'm leaving the liftgate until last, still waiting on Tim to send me the two pulleys that got broken in shipping. I figure by the time I get to the liftgate, I'll be an expert. 

I am modifying my plan a little, I'm moving the liftgate over a few feet. Since I got the brainstorm of adding an extension yard on that side, I need space to make the transition. That will get added after I get the main benchwork up and the deck on.


----------



## PatKn

Looking good John.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

For my mods, I think I'll need a couple small parts, so I'm going to go as far as I can and determine what I need. Had to take the wife in for a little outpatient surgery today, so I'm just getting home.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

gunrunnerjohn said:


> For my mods, I think I'll need a couple small parts, so I'm going to go as far as I can and determine what I need. Had to take the wife in for a little outpatient surgery today, so I'm just getting home.


Good luck and more importantly I hope that the wife will be ok. Speedy recovery to her.


----------



## DennyM

A speedy recovery for the Mrs.


----------



## Guest

I hope your wife is OK and quickly recovers.


----------



## cole226

Good progress John. It's a good time of year for building the layout with the short daytime hours and long nights. :thumbsup:

Best wishes to the Mrs.


----------



## Guest

Best wishes to your wife John for a speedy recovery from her surgery yesterday.


----------



## AG216

Speedy recovery for your wife John!
Andre.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys. It was pretty minor, but of course anything that involves scalpels is scary.  I take her today for the follow-up, so far so good.


----------



## Bob Phillips

Hope everything goes well John for your wife. Seems like I know to many people with medical problems the older I get.


----------



## Spence

Hope all is well with the Mrs.


----------



## PatKn

Spence said:


> Hope all is well with the Mrs.


As do I. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## papa3rail

Things are looking good so far John,best wishes to your wife for a speedy recovery.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Wife is doing fine, other than looking like I socked her in the eye.  It was a minor thing, but hopefully corrects the issue.

Meanwhile, I'm forging ahead, did some more construction today. Made some minor changes in the plan, so that slowed me down a bit. I also have to get a few more bits from Mianne to finish up with my changes.


----------



## cole226

Glad to here the report on the Mrs.

Layout progress looking good. Bet your smiling now, huh.


----------



## AG216

Thank you for the update, John! our greetings to her!
Nice room and well illuminated.
AG.


----------



## DennyM

It's coming along nicely John. You'll be running trains before you know it.


----------



## Guest

Looking good, John. Won't be long before you get the decking installed. 

Happy to learn that your wife is doing well after surgery.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The significant other has had a run of bad luck, first falling and breaking her wrist, and then having this eye surgery. She's bounced back from the wrist, and recovering nicely from this round. I hope she doesn't have any more of this stuff happening.


----------



## Jeff T

Here's to a quick recovery for Mrs. GRJ!


----------



## Chugman

John, all my best to your wife. 

Your bench work really looks good so far. This is a very exciting phase of a layout where you can actually see real progress and it goes relatively quickly too. I'm enjoying watching your progress.

Art


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, just got the parts that I needed for the lift-gate, so that's next. I'm still waiting on a couple of special hardware bits to finish, but I'll have all of it shaped up soon. I'm already planning an addition, but that's another topic.


----------



## SantaFeJim

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm still waiting on a couple of special hardware bits to finish, but I'll have all of it shaped up soon.


Not trying to be a wise guy. I was just checking here to see your progress. I'm guessing the special hardware bits are out of stock.


----------



## empire builder

GRJ can you enlighten my curiosity as to what that trap door or? in ceiling is for I just happened to look up while viewing last photo of benchwork progress thanks.
the benchwork is looking nice but I'll bet no progress due to folks in need of trains repaired for holiday season. hope your better half has a nice uneventful holiday season now.


----------



## Guest

You are very observant, EB. I didn't see it before you mentioned it. It does look like a door or access hatch. I would say it's access to the attic but since John's in the basement that doesn't seem likely. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. :dunno:  But there is a key: Gunrunner John!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

SantaFeJim said:


> Not trying to be a wise guy. I was just checking here to see your progress. I'm guessing the special hardware bits are out of stock.


I actually got the parts a couple days ago. Just got back from Lowes picking up the remainder of the wood I need to construct the liftgate section, so that's next.


empire builder said:


> GRJ can you enlighten my curiosity as to what that trap door or? in ceiling is for I just happened to look up while viewing last photo of benchwork progress thanks. the benchwork is looking nice but I'll bet no progress due to folks in need of trains repaired for holiday season. hope your better half has a nice uneventful holiday season now.


I have been going slower, lots of repairs flow in. Of course, they're all "emergencies"! 

The trap doors are equipment access, since it's a finished ceiling and power, gas lines, etc. are up there, they added a couple of these to access them. I actually added one more when I was running the TV and network lines up to the family room, easier than hacking a hole in the ceiling and then doing all the wallboard repair work. There's also one on the wall to turn off the outside faucet.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

I know that Christmas is here but any updates?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Been kinda' busy with family and all the Christmas repairs that have come in. I do have all the parts in for the remainder of the benchwork assembly, just have to get time to do it.


----------



## sjm9911

We need more hours in the day GRJ, eventually it will get built, but not finished😀


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I doubt it will ever be "finished".


----------



## Traindiesel

Merry Christmas John to you and your family. Take a break and enjoy the holidays and pick it up refreshed after the New Year!


----------



## Big Ed

I see what looks like the start of a train table ! 
Looking good John. The workroom too. :smilie_daumenpos:

I have only been waiting since around 2010 to see your dream come true. :thumbsup:

Merry Christmas.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It's happening, just not as fast as I'd like. However, that sucker IS going to get built finally. 

Merry Christmas to all, and by next Christmas I will have Christmas trains running!


----------



## Guest

Merry Christmas to you, John. 

I understand that one of my Maine good friends is keeping you busy.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, one down and one to go, he should be seeing his Niagara soon. 

You guys should get together, I convert all his stuff to DCS and all yours to TMCC. I wonder if we just put all of them in a box and shook it, would the electronics would sort itself out and all the stuff would be converted?


----------



## Guest

Now that's really funny, John. But no chance of DCS for me.


----------



## Traindiesel

John, you’ve been into the heavily doctored eggnog already?!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I went straight for the hard stuff Brian, that's the only way I can come up with this kind of idea.


----------



## Chugman

I am amazed sometimes when I think about the differences between Lionel and MTH. Then when John points out that one of you has to have MTH or DCS and the other has to have TMCC or Legacy, it really points it out.

I have both and wouldn't want to give up either. Each has made engines that I had to have. It's too bad that we couldn't have the best of each in one engine, but of course that isn't likely to happen any time soon. 

Art


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

Art, your point is well-taken. Competition, however much we like the benefits of keeping companies on their toes, is also a double-edged sword. History has given us the (vastly superior) Betamax vs. (largely inferior) VHS wars; Mac vs. PC battles; and most recently iPhone iOS vs. Samsung Android OS smart-phone choices.

Selecting one's preferred product is never easy or straightforward, and it always involves nuances that live with us long after the choice is made. At least in our little corner of the world, both DCS and Legacy have the potential of co-existing together on a good day. On bad days, they've been known to step all over each other -- regardless of what the experts say.  At least that's been my experience!

David


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Finally got a couple hours to tinker with the layout again, making some progress. All the Mianne wood is done, just have to finish rigging the liftgate servo and limit switches. I moved the liftgate to the center as I am considering a future expansion on the left for a yard, no sense having the liftgate in the way. 

Time to get my plywood in...


----------



## BFI66

Looks good, John!

-Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Now that it's all there, I'm a little taken back with all the surface area I have to deal with!  This will be my largest personal layout, should keep me busy for some time. I'm eager to rig the cable and limit switches and see the liftgate in operation.


----------



## SantaFeJim

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Finally got a couple hours to tinker with the layout again, making some progress. I moved the liftgate to the center as I am considering a future expansion on the left for a yard, no sense having the liftgate in the way.
> 
> Time to get my plywood in...
> 
> View attachment 478088


GRJ, 

I love the way YOU think. Just finished moving and installing the lift bridge and already talking about EXPANSION.

Best of luck going forward. I am really enjoying the updates on this project. Have you considered a series of "stills" that you can use for a slide show? How about a time lapse video. I am sure that would get a gazillion hits.

ENJOY!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

No time lapse video, I'm not taking that sucker apart again! 

If I didn't think about expansion, that would mean there's possibly a finish to the layout, right? Everyone knows that a layout is never finished!  I know I've never finished one, just abandoned and started again.


----------



## Guest

I got the best buy for plywood at Home Depot. The 3/4" cabinet grade was on sale. Very nice to work with.


----------



## Wood

Keep moving John, looks like a strong structure. Lots of space, it's going to be a terrific layout.


----------



## PatKn

Looks like it has the making of a fantastic layout. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## empire builder

looks good GRJ but hope before you lay plywood down you create holes for wiring. now I did not look closely but where I walk into my layout I put in a 2x4 plywood platform so wiring can go anyplace I so chose without it being a trip hazard just a suggestion is all. 

that oval of track on floor is now dwarfed by the area of bench work you built lol.
enjoy the ride the real work is just beginning er fun I mean!


----------



## DennyM

Well it's time to start chopping at the bit watching your progress.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Finally got a couple hours to tinker with the layout again, making some progress.
> 
> Time to get my plywood in...


What is your plan to distribute power and control around the layout: track and accessory power buses, control, etc)?

Do you plan to drill holes in the Mianne's upper cross members to route wire?


----------



## sjm9911

I was wondering how the bottem braces went in, is it predetermaned or you just add as needed? And with all that rug your going to need a rumba!


----------



## Chaostrain

It's looking good. May I suggest checking with Habitat for Humanity Restores for your plywood and possibly other stuff? You can get some great stuff at a very low price plus be helping out a great cause. They're my first go to when I'm looking for stuff. 

https://www.habitat.org/restores


----------



## Guest

You are making excellent progress, John. :thumbsup: :appl: :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Big Ed

What ever happened to the whole room picture of the new place your building this in?
It had the entry way room(?) the main room and the work area part, it also had the part where the water heater(?) or something is hidden. At least that is the way I remembered it.
I searched real quick but cant find it.
Did you delete that?

In the room part of where you are going to have the TV and sitting area are you still planning on a loop of track running through there?

Or did you change the whole plan since then?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Made a bit more progress, the liftgate is done and even the protection panels are on the side to keep fingers out of the cables. I had to ad-lib a bit on mounting the protection panels, they had a pretty lame design that only supported them from the sides. This is a 48" span, so the Masonite was flapping in the breeze. I added some wood blocks and supports to attach them on all four sides.

The only remaining task for the liftgate is to add controls to operate it from both sides, the single control isn't going to do the trick.









Ed, don't know what happened to the basement plan, I'm presuming it's in the other thread.

Here's the picture from the home planning software again.


----------



## sjm9911

Who are the 3 guys in the corner? They look shady?


----------



## Wood

Big Ed said:


> What ever happened to the whole room picture of the new place your building this in?
> It had the entry way room(?) the main room and the work area part, it also had the part where the water heater(?) or something is hidden. At least that is the way I remembered it.
> I searched real quick but cant find it.
> Did you delete that?
> 
> In the room part of where you are going to have the TV and sitting area are you still planning on a loop of track running through there?
> 
> Or did you change the whole plan since then?


I think this is what Big Ed was looking for. It is found in one of your original threads called the New Train Room.










The odd corner is a sump pump.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

sjm9911 said:


> Who are the 3 guys in the corner? They look shady?


They're plotting the overthrow of the duly elected government.


----------



## Big Ed

Thanks Wood that is it.


----------



## laz57

Nice JOHN!!!! :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm thinking on a small mod to my layout, expanding the one end so I can have two O72 reverse loops and one giant dogbone for the mainline. I'll just fill in the one 4x4 part and have room for two stacked reverse loops.


----------



## Guest

*"expanding the one end so I can have two O72 reverse loops and one giant dogbone for the mainline."*

Great idea, John, you won't regret this.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The deed is done, I realized that I'd never be happy if I didn't bite the bullet now before I get half done with the layout and realize I didn't like the track plan! Took about 15 minutes to bolt the new parts in place, no sawdust at all in sight. I do like the Mianne benchwork!


----------



## Lehigh74

I suppose it goes without saying, but I can’t stop thinking access hatch.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I am planning on a hatch, I just have to figure out where the two O72 loops will be so I can locate the hatch and not hit track.


----------



## papa3rail

Everything looking great so far John.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks.  I'm still thinking on the track plan, I'm mulling over whether to try to make the two overlapping reverse loops O84 curves, the larger the curves, the better all the trains will like it. I'm also looking for a good deal on a quantity of #14 wire.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

Any updates?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Nothing recently, I'm stuck on getting the track plan to a state where I can proceed. I don't want to build and have to tear down, been there, done that, don't like it!


----------



## Bill Webb

I think Steve Nelson has #14 wire about .35/foot. OGR type.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I bought 500' spools of THHN #14 stranded wire at Lowes for $42/ea, love that 10% veterans discount.


----------



## Spence

John I don’t know if Moonson is still on the OGR but he certainly could help with a track plan.


----------



## SantaFeJim

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I bought 500' spools of THHN #14 stranded wire at Lowes for $42/ea, love that 10% veterans discount.


GRJ -

FYI, Home Depot also has a10% veterans discount. In addition, some HD stores have reserved parking close to the doors, on par with handy cap parking.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Au contraire Jim, I've specifically been refused the discount a number of times in HD, and I have both a county issued Veterans ID card and the official VA issued picture ID. Their loss, I go to Lowes now. I see veteran parking places, but it's usually labeled for wounded vets, I was fortunate that my only military wounds were mental.


----------



## SantaFeJim

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Au contraire Jim, I've specifically been refused the discount a number of times in HD, and I have both a county issued Veterans ID card and the official VA issued picture ID. Their loss, I go to Lowes now. I see veteran parking places, but it's usually labeled for wounded vets, I was fortunate that my only military wounds were mental.


John,

Sorry to hear that. Our HD used to apply the 10% discount only to *active duty* military personnel. 

I know this because about 5 years ago I was making a rather large purchase (more than $600) so I showed my ID card to the cashier and asked for the veterans discount. She asked if I was active duty and I said no, I am a veteran. She said that the veterans discount was only for AD personnel. At that point I asked for the store manager.

I am guessing that the manager was busy elsewhere because a local supervisor came over and said that the cashier was correct. Again I asked for the store manager. About fine minutes later the store manager showed up and I explained the situation. I went on to explain that the definition of a veteran is a person *who has served* in the military.

He agreed, told the cashier to give me the discount and I have used it for EVERY HD purchase since and it has ALWAYS been accepted.

My suggestion, do some squeaking and you just might get greased.


----------



## MichaelE

For some reason, businesses and some individuals think just because you aren't currently serving you are somehow less important than those who are.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

SantaFeJim said:


> My suggestion, do some squeaking and you just might get greased.


Jim, in this case, I prefer to patronize a business that has a total corporate policy of supporting veterans, that would be Lowes. Every cashier knows the policy, and they willingly apply the discount, not to mention thanking you for your service.

With HD, you have to beg and plead to get the discount, IF they even relent at that point. Unfortunately in the case of HD, I'm not the begging kind. I'm sure they'll survive without my business, and I know I'm doing just fine without shopping there.


----------



## Big Ed

John in your last picture above, why is the loop of track laid out on the rug underneath the table?


----------



## BWA

HaHa, he doesn't want to get his beautiful new benchwork all mussed up by actually putting track on it...….


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Big Ed said:


> John in your last picture above, why is the loop of track laid out on the rug underneath the table?


Because it would fall through the open holes in the benchwork silly!


----------



## wvgca

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Jim, in this case, I prefer to patronize a business that has a total corporate policy of supporting veterans,



Yep, after all, it's YOUR money !


----------



## Guest

Just spoke with our local HD and they honor a veterans discount at 10% up to a maximum of $ 50.00.

Lowe's is certainly better in terms of the Vet discount. However, you should check prices as often I have found that here they are higher, sometimes by a lot.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Here's what I'm thinking for the mainlines, getting close now. There's a folded dogbone that runs around the outside and the loops are stacked on the right hand side. Inside is an independent loop with links to the main.

Sidings and the like to be added.


----------



## PatKn

Nice plan, John. Looks like it will give you maximum length mainline. :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That was the goal Pat, I wanted to be able to stick a decent sized train on it and not feel like I was chasing my tail. I figure with about 140 feet of mainline and maybe 33-34 feet more adding the inside loop. I'm sure it'll keep me busy for some time getting this together!


----------



## Guest

John, I like the trackplan. :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Joe, I hope in real life it works as well as it does in my mind.


----------



## BWA

At first, I thought, why not double crossovers...…....then, I thought, oh yeah, double reverse loops, same thing.....


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The reverse loops work to give me a longer mainline, so they do double-duty. If I just had too loops with double crossovers, I'd have less continuous running length.


----------



## Spence

It looks like a nice plan but once you start dry fitting the track it will probably change.


----------



## cole226

There will be no problem with the way track falls on the lift gate? :dunno:

I like the plan, long cont. runs. :thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

Nice John. I like long mainlines for the same reason.

Regards,

Gary.


----------



## Lehigh74

cole226 said:


> There will be no problem with the way track falls on the lift gate?


Good question. And half of the crossover under the mountain?

What track are you using? Might be better to put that crossover in the upper right and use Ross O96 outside O72 inside switches.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

O96 is too large for the reverse loops. It's Ross switches and a combo of Ross and Gargraves track. The straights are Gargraves (cheaper), and the curves are Ross as they are a more precise geometry. 

For the lift-gate, I'll just lay the track with it down and mark and cut on a diagonal for the separation. The liftgate positioning is pretty precise, and I think that should work out. When it comes down, it aligns the same every time.

There will be some changes, of that I have no doubt. However, the basic idea will adhere pretty close to that plan. Obviously, I have to add industry sidings, etc. when I get the mainline laying on the table, I'll zero in on those.


----------



## cole226

gunrunnerjohn said:


> For the lift-gate, I'll just lay the track with it down and mark and cut on a diagonal for the separation. The liftgate positioning is pretty precise, and I think that should work out. When it comes down, it aligns the same every time.


Should be good as long as it repeats. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Looks like your getting a handle on what you want.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Slow progress as I've been busy with all sorts of stuff, but I'm like the turtle, I'll eventually get to the finish line.


----------



## SantaFeJim

GRJ,

I like that you have a good balance of track and landscape. Too often guys make the mistake of thinking “more is better” and get carried away laying track. They wind up with the all to common spaghetti bowl layout.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Jim, I wanted a nice mainline and the extra loop, the rest will be a few sidings for industry and then space for landscaping. I will say, I don't think there's a wrong way to do a layout, whatever your taste is, that's what you do. I figure that a more "wide open" look may make the layout appear larger than it is.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Because it would fall through the open holes in the benchwork silly!



Just can't shake the old carpet layout syndrome huh?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, you can be sure it'll be gone as soon as I have a real track laid.


----------



## Big Ed

You have plans for mountains, valleys, lakes and rivers, along with towns and industry? 

Looking good John.:thumbsup:


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

Nice track plan, John! You'll be running trains before you know it!!! 

David


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks David, I hope it's soon. 

Ed, that's just the mainlines, I'll be adding some sidings. At some point, there might even be more elevated lines, you never know.


----------



## SantaFeJim

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Just spoke with our local HD and they honor a veterans discount at 10% up to a maximum of $ 50.00.
> 
> Lowe's is certainly better in terms of the Vet discount. However, you should check prices as often I have found that here they are higher, sometimes by a lot.


Last summer I had HD carpet a 34’ x 15’ section in our basement. I got $215 veterans discount.


----------



## Guest

Jim, I think that the HD vet discount must vary greatly from store to store. Just this week, they told me a maximum of $ 50.00 for vets on a purchase, and if an item is on sale, no deal.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, and the local HD just didn't seem to want to give the discount, so they lose the business. FWIW, I've never been turned down at Lowes, regardless of sales or not.


----------



## Guest

* "FWIW, I've never been turned down at Lowes, regardless of sales or not."
*
Correct, John. Our local Lowe's is across the street from HD and they honor the 10% vet discount regardless of the fact that an item may be on sale.


----------



## papa3rail

Looks like a fun well thought out plan John ,looking forward to seeing the next phase of this project.One thing I would have done if I had the chance to start over is once I had my track plan I would have run the bulk of my electrical before I laid down any sheeting.I spent a lot of time on a short stool looking up and got more than a few knots on the old noggin.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Dave, progress is slow right now, I'd love to move faster. 

I'm getting ready for York now, and I also have a house that I haven't lived in for a year that's costing me a ton of money. That being said, I've been working more than I'd like to pay that big honkin' bill every month, I sure wish I could get that sold!

I did get samples of the foam trackbed, I think this time I'll pass on cork and use one of these products. So, what do you all think, the gray or the charcoal? I'm kinda' leaning to the charcoal, but I could be convinced either way.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

I like the charcoal.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

I'd vote for charcoal. But the bigger question is, "Do you plan to ballast the track?" If so, then the color of the roadbed becomes less important.

For the record... I opted for cork, but we painted it with a textured paint before laying the track. I always thought I'd want to ballast the track for ultimate realism, but the textured paint approach resulted in a pretty cool appearance. And I don't think I'll be ballasting anytime soon now. Can't say never, but it's certainly not a priority.

David


----------



## Spence

I’d say charcoal also especially if you’re not going to ballast.


----------



## SantaFeJim

Put another check in the charcoal column. :thumbsup:


----------



## Lehigh74

I would go with the gray. It looks like a better color match to the ballast in our area.


----------



## Lehigh74

Thought you were going with Gargraves and Ross. That looks like Atlas track.


----------



## Chaostrain

I vote for the gray. If you do ballast it's less likely to show through any thin spots. Plus if you decide to do any coloring it'll be easier. And finally, I think it looks better if left untouched.


----------



## cole226

I'm going with charcoal, I see more of the dark around here. Old cinder road beds with gray ballast.


----------



## Guest

I am in the gray column.


----------



## Bill Webb

Gray for us. N and W roadbed is more gray. 

But, go with what you prefer, that is what matters.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Tough choice. I will eventually ballast the track, but not before I make sure I'm 100% happy with how the track plan is working out.

Bob, that's just a piece of Atlas that I toss on my workbench for testing, I don't have my track order for the layout yet.


----------



## Guest

Hi John. I may be mistaken on your choice. Are both of those samples from WoodlandScenics? If so I am wondering why you chose them over Flexxbed from hobby Innovations.

Gary.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

These are actually from another source, he sells on eBay. I also got samples of Flexxbed for comparison.

The reason I'm leaning this way is the products are VERY similar and Flexxbed is twice the price, and shipping is actually more for Flexxbed.

30pcs (180') "O" Scale Gray Roadbed plus extra wide pieces, $100

For 180 feet of Flexxbed classic, it's about $190.

The first choice also includes some wide pieces for switches, I have to pay extra for that with Flexxbed as well.


----------



## Guest

Go with the one that is closest to the color of the ballast you will use. Where I lived in NY the ballast is gray so I would use gray since it would look right to my eyes. Also, gray shows the ties while black hides them.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I haven't decided what color ballast, though I think I prefer the darker stuff over the light gray. Decisions... decisions.. decisions...


----------



## laz57

Lookin good GUNS. I vote for the darker color.:thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm sort of leaning that way myself.


----------



## superwarp1

Foam is the way to go, as I went with the woodland scenics foam roadbed for the mainlines.

I went with a lighter shad grey for the ballast with mixed in darker shades. The yards will get the real dirty stuff, the mainline a cleaner look with passenger stations in between


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I've used cork, and the foam appears to be easier to use, and it should be just as effective.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it's been a while, been busy with other projects, not to mention finally unloading my old house!

Finally picked up my wood today, I'm going with 5 x 5 birch multi-ply, really nice looking stuff. I went with the 5 x 5 as in order to get proper span on the Mianne benchwork, you need a bit more than four feet to properly fit in a so-called four foot width! I'll also be using finger joints under the top so I can use the entire 5 foot span of the wood. 

I've already got the foam roadbed and my Ross switches and Gargraves track, so everything is in readiness now. I just have to get time to really put into it and get it done!


I feel like the turtle, slow and not so steady.


----------



## Spence

GRJ: They tell me that patience is a virtue.


----------



## hokie71

John, looking forward to seeing your progress. Where do you buy 5x5 plywood?


----------



## PatKn

John, seems slow now but when you're finished and look back it will seem like a short time. Sorry, did I say finished?


----------



## Guest

That is progress, John. Nice looking wood.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys. I've been so busy with other stuff that I hadn't had time to arrange the delivery of the wood.


hokie71 said:


> John, looking forward to seeing your progress. Where do you buy 5x5 plywood?


You have to go to a specialty house for multi-ply as a rule, I found it in Reading about an hour from my house. The 1/2" multi-ply has 9 layers as opposed to three for standard 1/2" plywood. It's also birch on the outsides, and both sides are good. It wasn't all that expensive, a sheet was $25. Of course, then you have to add in the governor's cut...

The 5 x 5 works out better for Mianne benchwork as the 4 foot runs are measured from the center of the legs, so actually my 4 foot wide runs are about 1.5" more than that, makes it a PITA to use 4 x 8 wood.


----------



## empire builder

glad to hear you were able to sell the old homestead. and I had about given up hearing anything on current layout build! but understand sometimes life has its twist n turns to deal with. this should be a fun read once you can start working on your layout.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> ... I went with the 5 x 5 as in order to get proper span on the Mianne benchwork, you need a bit more than four feet to properly fit in a so-called four foot width!
> 
> I feel like the turtle, slow and not so steady.
> 
> View attachment 496558


That seems like a pitfall of an otherwise beautiful benchwork. What were they thinking?

Fear not, no matter how many times the story is told, Aesop's turtle always wins!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I agree Mike, I don't know why they didn't think of standard lumber when they designed this stuff.


----------



## Guest

John, the new plywood looks good. 5 x 5 seems like a good size to work with, much easier than handling 4 x 8 sheets.

The turtle approach is sound. That's how I work, and, as Mike said, no matter how many times the story is told, the turtle always wins. Slow and steady makes good progress. You'll think you haven't accomplished much but will be surprised when you look back and see how far you've gone.


----------



## Traindiesel

Are the trains running yet? 

I'm watching intently as I plan to install Mianne Benchwork for my layout, to see how you secure the plywood and how the 5X5 sheets fit.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Trains are running, just not on the layout.  I still need a place to test run repairs and upgrades.


----------



## Chaostrain

Its always nice to have a little place to play until the layout is ready to run trains, I mean a place to test.


----------



## Guest

Let's see some some plywood installed this weekend, John.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Brian, I'm not even going to try to match the speed you put up your layout, that's a lost cause already! If I was to go at that speed, my layout would be complete and I'd already be taking it apart to do another one.


----------



## wvgca

it will come along, little by little ...
it's just a hobby, lol


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, and summer slows me down anyway. I just got finished power washing the deck, and now we're going out to see my grandkids.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Yep, and summer slows me down anyway. I just got finished power washing the deck, and now we're going out to see my grandkids.



Something else slows you down too. 
But I won't mention what.
Slowed me down too.:smokin:

You have a good excuse today, besides it is a holiday weekend.
Get out and enjoy.


----------



## wvgca

i got mine done in two winters because i didn't have anything else to do .... and very little electrical work, no lights, manual ground throws...etc.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Brian, I'm not even going to try to match the speed you put up your layout, that's a lost cause already! ....


That's OK, John. I think everybody just wants to see you running trains on your brand new layout. Of course, the comparison these days is none other than TW Trainworx, who are literally cranking out 3 or 4 basement empires PER quarter! Dunham Studio's tends to do 1 large layout and perhaps 2 more smaller layouts each year. I can't imagine the team of people TW Trainworx has working for them these days. They're just churning layouts out like there's no tomorrow, and they're booked into 2020.  Mike Reagan never seemed happier too, when I spoke to him at York.

David


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Mike does seem a lot happier than he was with Lionel. I'm not happier that he left Lionel, things really have gone downhill at the big "*L*" lately.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the wheels are turning again, working on putting the top on. While we're at it, a small extension was added on one end. After all, you can't have too much space...


----------



## DMASSO

Looking very good.


----------



## PatKn

Slow and sure wins the race. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## Wood

Wonderful space John and nice size layout. Not to big not to small. Keep the updates coming...


----------



## Spence

Always nice to see plywood going down.


----------



## wvgca

How much plywood do you have to put down yet ??


----------



## Guest

Looking good John!


----------



## Lehigh74

Looks like you went ahead and added the extension so you can have a siding into the workshop.


----------



## Guest

Nothing like progress that you can easily see. Won't be long now before track makes an appearance.


----------



## Booly15

What I wouldn't give for that room!


----------



## Guest

Plywood is a big step. Soon you will be laying track and running trains. :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We made more progress. It doesn't look like much, but a lot of cutting and fitting, trying to get all the edges decided. We also made sure we had a way to access the soon to be added yard tracks, I think I like what we came up with.  The layout surface is fitted around the posts now.

More tomorrow, hope to get to the Hemasote by Friday.


----------



## Guest

WOW, that's a lot of progress, John. Looks great.


----------



## Big Ed

Wow, A table coming to life.........at last. :thumbsup:

John, parts of it look like your going to have a long reach to work on it? 

But looking good.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, there will be a pop-up or two to solve most of the issues. Once I got into it, I wanted to do things that dictated some real-estate compromises. The little hole in the table will get bigger.  Also, on the inside there's a lot of wood that will be coming off, that's not finished yet.


----------



## Guest

John, the table surface looks great. You did a very nice job fitting it around the column.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It was originally stopping short of the columns, but after some discussion we added about 2 1/2 feet and wrapped around them. I don't want to take too much credit, Tom did most of the measurements for the column. Wait until you see the Fascia treatment he's cooking up, this will not be your normal square table!


----------



## PatKn

Looks great John. You are really moving along now. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## cole226

Great progress on the table. I know you have to be anxious. :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The reason it's moving along so well now is the guy in the background that forgotten more about building a layout than I ever knew! He's a professional woodworker, his layout stuff looks like furniture!


----------



## superwarp1

Always good to have friends willing to help. Great progress


----------



## santafe158

Looking great!


----------



## Millstonemike

Great!


----------



## Spence

John; do you have a track plan or are you just going to put the track down and see what happens?


----------



## DennyM

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The reason it's moving along so well now is the guy in the background that forgotten more about building a layout than I ever knew! He's a professional woodworker, his layout stuff looks like furniture!


We get by with a little help from our friends. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress and videos in the future.:thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys. 

Spence, I have a track plan, but I see it eroding as we work, there are already changes being made. I had posted the original track plan, but with the extensions and new ideas, that is changing. Same basic idea, but different execution.


----------



## Lehigh74

Are you going to run track on the outside of the column where your arm is in post 240?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Not that column, but the one on the other side will have the track going around it. We're actually cutting a curve by that post about 3" from it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

This one will have the mainlines past the post. Obviously, there's a piece that needs to be install yet.


----------



## Guest

This must be getting exciting for you, John. Nice execution.


----------



## JoeSaggese

I'm also looking forward to seeing your progress. This will be exciting to follow!!!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

More photos for today's work. Spent a lot of time thinking about track plan and changes we need to make...


----------



## Guest

John, what is the elevated shelf for?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The final shape is made, Monday we'll nail everything down. Next comes the Homasote and then the fascia. We do have to put the top on the upper deck, that's the last of the plywood. 

All the outside profile is set. One of the neat features is virtually no straight lines, it'll all be graceful curves. Once the fascia is on, I think it's going to look outstanding, I can't wait!


----------



## Spence

Those last photos you posted look fantastic.


----------



## Guest

Very impressive John!


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

:appl:


----------



## PatKn

Looks fantastic, John.


----------



## MichaelE

Are you using realistic looking flex track or tube track?


----------



## Guest

The top looks very good, John. I like the shape. It's very creative.


----------



## Guest

The more progress, the better, John.

Track next week?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Guys, the edge treatment was all Tom's idea, and now seeing it, I can see why he pushed it so hard.  It's getting a little closer, I'm getting stoked! 

Michael, it's all Gargraves flex track and Ross switches. AAMOF, I'm putting in an order for three more switches...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Brian, I think next week will be Fascia, Homasote, and then maybe track.


----------



## Guest

You are really doing some good work, John.


----------



## laz57

LOOKS GREAT:appl:. You got a lot o space there. Nice to see how you will fill it.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It was 20 x 12.5, now it's 23 x 12.5, it grows as we work.  My workshop got a little smaller, so I'll just have to do less work and run more trains.


----------



## Guest

gunrunnerjohn said:


> My workshop got a little smaller, so I'll just have to do less work and run more trains.


That sounds like an excellent and very wise plan to me.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

How could I go wrong doing that, right?


----------



## JKP

Great to see a layout being built, I agree with Country Joe about the shape. I like the concept of mostly curves.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Back at it yesterday. Now it's time to take all the pieces laying on top and make them into a continuous sheet. Since we used 5x5 to maximize usage of the wood, they don't fall onto supports conveniently. Truthfully, with the Mianne benchwork, they wouldn't anyway, so it's necessary to knit all the pieces into one in the gaps. I hope to finish this today and maybe get some of the supports for the fascia installed. Those have to all be in place and secured before we can put the Homasote on.

There are actually two different joining methods in use, I'll shoot the other type today. Either works well, the fingers illustrated can be left unsecured on one side for each finger and allow you to take stuff apart. Since I have no intention of taking this apart with anything but a chainsaw, we saw no reason to make them removable.


----------



## PatKn

Nice job, John. Those fingers will make a nice joint between the plywood.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

They seem to work really well. The plates we're using in other sections seem as secure, just a different technique for joining the wood. The goal is one piece that has similar strength anywhere on the top. I think the fingers are somewhat cool in that you can make them so you can disassemble them, a useful trait for some situations, just not this one.


----------



## Guest

Interesting way to make the joints secure. Very nice presentation on just how to do it. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It was a new one on me, I never saw that done before. Some other joints we're using more standard butt plates, that I've done before. I think Tom trotted that one out just to show me a new woodworking idea, he's something else.  Some of the stuff he has created boggles the mind, he's a woodworking madman!


----------



## Spence

You'll be able to place anything on that table with that reinforcing you're doing. Looks great.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, I've placed my butt on it a few times measuring and marking, and so far I haven't fallen through!


----------



## Dennis461

Seems a shame to cover the cabinet work with scenery😉


----------



## empire builder

John and Tom your doing a fantastic job creating the basic foundation that will result in trackage that lays flat across those joints. once the homasote is down the real fun starts laying track. if I remember correctly you wanted to have the basic wiring strung so did that happen?
hopefully a year from now and all trackage will be operational then you can hopefully share a trackside video view of your layout.


----------



## Guest

You guys are doing nice work. Building a solid table will result in reliable train running.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

gunrunnerjohn said:


> .... Since I have no intention of taking this apart with anything but a chainsaw, we saw no reason to make them removable.
> ....


Great progress, John. Although I'd hate to see you take a chainsaw to anything that's looking this good!!! I suppose it's all the more amazing to think how Dunham Studios and Trainworx build their layouts so they CAN come apart WITHOUT a chainsaw!!!  Then again, that's pretty much "by necessity" so the layouts can make it from the studio to their ultimate destinations. 

Onward... enjoying your progress!!!

David


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

In answer to the question, no, I didn't get the pre-wiring done! 

The opportunity to have Tom help with the layout was too good to resist, having a real expert on the job was a lure that was impossible to pass up. However, that meant I didn't have time to plan out and wire it, so I'll be under it doing that...

Dave, the chainsaw will likely be someone else's doing when I'm gone, I ain't taking this apart! I thought about making it able to be disassembled, but then I thought about it. Who am I kidding, I'm 76, and I'm not likely to start another whole new layout, so this one is going to have to do the job!

This is way larger and more "deluxe" than anything I've done before it, so it's been quite an education.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We got all the sheets joined together, besides the finger joints, other stuff got a plate. Pretty much the same idea, and the same result.

One step closer...


----------



## Dano

Looking good, John. Can't wait to see the little world you build on this!


----------



## PatKn

Looking good, John. I wonder. Is there an advantage of using one method (plate vs teeth) over the other?


----------



## AG216

Wow,
easily could be an atomic bomb shelter!
very well done, John!
Andre.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm no planning on it falling down, so all the fasteners will be good. 


PatKn said:


> Looking good, John. I wonder. Is there an advantage of using one method (plate vs teeth) over the other?


I think one significant advantage, only if you use them that way, is the teeth can allow you to disassemble without any additional tools. When you slide them together, the really do lock the sheets in place in exact alignment, pretty cool. Since there's no plans on taking it apart, the screws are just to keep the panels from moving as we place other panels. As of now, the whole top is secured, we just have to put a couple of the little bump-out panels on and then it's on to creating the brackets to hold the fascia in place.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Moving on, these are the shots of the flat plate joints, similar strength, they just have no option of ever coming apart after they're screwed, glued, and stapled! 

















Here's the support for the one larger bump-out that sticks out a ways from the benchwork, I'm visualizing a freight station or similar on this section.

















Starting on the supports for the inside layout of the fascia. These supports will attach the fascia to the benchwork.

















The strip on top of the bench is a piece of the inside layout of the fascia, it will be glued and stapled to the supports and the edge of the benchwork. The finish layout of the fascia will be glued to this and will cover the Homasote layout that will be going on after the first fascia layout is done.


----------



## Lehigh74

Looks like clamp city.


----------



## Guest

Very impressive benchwork! You are a lucky man to have a professional woodworker working with you. :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

You're cruising right along in high gear now, John.


----------



## Guest

Can't wait to see the fascia boards installed.


----------



## Greg Houser

I like the doodle of the track plan on the plywood - nice to see you're using a detailed, scale drawing to build from! 

It's looking great!

-Greg


----------



## Wood

My "like" is the rounded edges, instead of square corners and straight aways. With the fascia applied it will look great. This is the one John! Long wait but it will be worth everything.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Greg Houser said:


> I like the doodle of the track plan on the plywood - nice to see you're using a detailed, scale drawing to build from!
> 
> It's looking great!
> 
> -Greg


Well, I had a track plan before we started blowing out the edges and the like, then all sorts of new ideas are surfacing. It's evolving as we build, so I stopped screwing around with the planning software till we get a little farther.



Wood said:


> My "like" is the rounded edges, instead of square corners and straight aways. With the fascia applied it will look great. This is the one John! Long wait but it will be worth everything.


Me too Wood, I'm blown away with how cool it's going to look when it's all dressed up. It gives it a look unlike most layout tables, just a little different.


----------



## empire builder

like watching a piece of furniture being made! funny how on paper a track plan is complete until the actual benchwork is created then poof goes the track plan. enjoy the process John am sure the progress will be incredible as we see this layout emerge.


----------



## SantaFeJim

GRJ -

If you haven't realized it yet, let me be the first to inform you, your design will make you a real trend setter in future model railroad layout design and builds. :appl:

I am monitoring this topic daily.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I will say, it's far and away fancier than what I originally envisioned. The curves will really set it apart, I chomping at the bit to have this done. 

I did lose a little workshop space expanding the one end several feet, but I can live with that.


----------



## empire builder

well not totally true losing work space as now a huge test track is 7 feet closer!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

There will be more through testing of repairs and upgrades, they'll have a place to stretch their legs. 

We pretty much took the day off, I did a few more blocks prepping for the fascia. A couple of these needed to be slotted for the joints under the layout, they all get glued to the surface, so they have to be flat to the table top. We have a lot more of these to put on yet.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I will say, it's far and away fancier than what I originally envisioned. The curves will really set it apart, I chomping at the bit to have this done.
> ...


John, this is actually an old technique employed by some of the great HO modelers like John Allen and John Armstrong back in the 50's and 60's. For whatever reason, it never caught on for 3-rail O-Gauge Layouts to any significant degree. 

Once you get around to actually showing us your track plan and laying track on your table, I think you'll find the layout will "appear" bigger than it really is in-person -- assuming you don't have trains traveling parallel to the table edges... which is typically why you introduced the curved table edges in the first place. I'm sure things will all work out, but I'm amazed you've done this much "final" carpentry work WITHOUT a final track plan. 

David


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Dave, I figured it wasn't a totally unique idea, but I rarely see it employed by layouts I see. Given that it's not likely I'll want to do yet another layout, I'm trying to do whatever I can to make this one worthy of being the "last". 

I had a track plan, but then we added length and some width to the table and have sketched out some new ideas, so that track plan kinda' went out the window!

I have a rough idea of what I'm doing for track, and my plan now is to make the table as large as will fit in the space and then I'll finalize the track plan. It'll be "similar" to what I had before in function, but on Tom's advice, I'm adding the switching for the expansion yard now to the track so I won't have to rip stuff up to get that switch in later. I'm also adding a couple of passing sidings that weren't planned. Finally, I had O72 throughout, and after discussion and mapping out what the curves would work out to be, I'm going with O96, O84, and O72 on the outside curves that run parallel. It'll look a lot better with bigger locomotives and cars, and there's space to do it.

As far as parallel tracks, that would be hard with all the curves!  However, the whole idea of the curves is to not have trains running parallel with the table edge.


----------



## empire builder

I like how its progressing slow yet methodical once the fascia is on it will have a finished look bench work wise.


----------



## Scrapiron Scher

John,
After building many layouts I can tell you that the benchwork is very satisfying. I can also tell you that I cannot stress the following enough:
1) Get the backdrop in FIRST. BEFORE you do most anything.
2) Spend 50% more time on the trackwork than you planned. If using Atlas O, prepare EACH section with conductive grease. Do not assume the joiners will conduct. If not using Atlas O, consult the Delphic Oracle or call me.
3) Use 14 gauge wire for all connections to the track and solder everything. Even lunch. I have 1 connection per 80 foot loop and lose NO power.
4) Test the track power after every couple of sections.
5) If Atlas O switches (highly recommended) use Tortoise machines. That is the SINGLE greatest improvement for my layout. Create panels and throw switches from the panels.


----------



## Wood

John, That's a plan! I like all of your comments regarding curvature and parallel tracks. If I were to do it again.... Oh boy, not going there....


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Wood said:


> If I were to do it again.... Oh boy, not going there....


Go for it, you know you want to!


----------



## papa3rail

Wow! I have been awol here for awhile ,glad to see you made yourself some time to really get the ball rolling.The bench work is looking great and your documentation of your progress is first rate.
Nice work John and thanks for the detailed updates.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Dave, I'm hoping to make more progress in the next couple of days. Too hot to go outside, and the humidity is pretty intense around here this week.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, I installed all the blocks I had cut and a few more, when these dry sufficiently to take the clamps off, I'll finish the ones inside the Valentine's Heart. 

























Still lots more after this, there are a LOT of fascia mounting blocks!

I also went around and stapled a bunch more sections to the I-beams to prevent vibration and rattling.


----------



## SantaFeJim

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Dave, I figured it wasn't a totally unique idea, but I rarely see it employed by layouts I see. Given that it's not likely I'll want to do yet another layout, I'm trying to do whatever I can to make this one worthy of being the "last".
> 
> Finally, I had O72 throughout, and after discussion and mapping out what the curves would work out to be, I'm going with O96, O84, and O72 on the outside curves that run parallel. It'll look a lot better with bigger locomotives and cars, and there's space to do it.
> 
> As far as parallel tracks, that would be hard with all the curves!  However, the whole idea of the curves is to not have trains running parallel with the table edge.


Parallel tracks are fine. Let’s face it, in the real world they exist everywhere. The problem most modelers make is having tracks parallel to the edge of the layout. I am currently having a layout professionally built. I expect delivery sometime around the middle of September. The 7-track yard is the only occurrence of tracks parallel to an edge. This was done to allow maximum storage.

You are going to LOVE the mixture of 096, 088 and 073 curves. The results for larger locomotives and passenger cars will be very visually pleasing.

Enjoying this topic. Looking forward to each update.


----------



## Guest

Last week was a big for progress, John. Lots of fun to watch your layout come together. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm working solo for a few days, so I'm just whacking out some of the busywork before Tom comes back and we tear into the next big phase. 

My yard expansion will obviously have lots of parallel tracks, as many as will fit in the space. The main table will have two tracks over another little bridge to the yard area. That comes after I get track down on the main table, I am installing the switches that will access the future yard.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Knocking off for the day, finished the blocks I had prepped, fixed the edge of the table near the Window, and I'll call it a day. 

























Tomorrow's work is probably this stretch, it still needs the fascia blocks...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

More work today, knocking off early so I won't get too much done. I did add back a curve detail that we had taken off after fitting it, and I finished all the fascia blocks on the window side of the layout. I've lost count of how many of these stinkin' things I've put on, but it's a bunch!  Sadly, there's still more to go!


----------



## Guest

Looking good, John. You are making progress everyday now. It's infectious.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It's also tiring!  I'm excited to see what it all looks like, but it's been way more work than I first imagined. :goofball:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Finally got to use some of the fascia blocks I've been sticking on! I especially love the look of the inside curves. This is the first layer of the fascia, the second layer doesn't go on until the Homasote goes on. I'll be adding more blocks tomorrow, and we're also truing up the liftgate for perfect alignment. Pretty sure they're not going to fall off, I think we used enough adhesive! 

















































If you wonder how efficient we have been using the wood, here's what's left of a dozen sheets of 5x5 multi-ply birch.


----------



## Lehigh74

I always try to optimize use of material when doing wood working. I've been impressed by the work that has gone into your layout, but that last shot of the minimal waste is perhaps the most impressive one so far.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

Terrific progress, John! I might find myself driving over to your neck of the woods to check this out in person -- just don't put me to work too much!!! 

But I'd be happy to bring over lunch!

David


----------



## Guest

The fascia looks fabulous. Very nice work.


----------



## Chaostrain

I pity the fool that decides to take that all down.


----------



## PatKn

The facia looks great. Nice, professional job so far.


----------



## seayakbill

Looks terrific John, great progress.

Bill


----------



## SantaFeJim

GRJ -

Your facia is amazing. A video showing how that bent to conform and attached would most helpful.

Any chance you can post one in the future?

Very professional. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

The fascia boards make a huge difference.


----------



## Spence

That facia looks fantastic. :appl:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys, I can't wait for the second fascia layer with the Homasote in place, that will be wider and a nice "finish" piece. I must admit, I never thought it would be this much work, but the finished product will be worth it!

Jim, not too much to putting the fascia on, we're using 3/8" bendable Lauan. All the strips are cut to height before you start, and after applying the adhesive, you just secure one end and then pull it reasonably tight to get the perfect curve. One of the tricks that would take too much work to put into a video properly is how the thick wad of adhesive is used to fine tune the exact curve so it's smooth all the way around, very tricky. Once the strip is up, you can then push and pull slightly to get that "perfect" curve, then just let the adhesive harden, then you get this. As it turns out, it's harder to do the flowing gentle curves than the tighter ones, they went on much faster.









The adhesive we use is this stuff, great stuff, but don't plan on taking anything apart after it sets! :laugh:


----------



## laz57

Way to go GUNS!!!! Those nail GUNS come in handy.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We're nailing, screwing, stapling, gluing, etc. We're exercising all the fastening disciplines for this layout!


----------



## laz57

Can’t get enough security.


----------



## AG216

install some star wall retainers, could get lose during the years.

AG.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think they layout will be here until they raze the house, it's got a couple hundred pounds of screws, staples, nails, and glue holding it together! 

Did a lot of little things today, one task was cutting and sanding down the top of the base fascia to be perfectly level with the table in preparation of installing the Homasote. Of course, there were more fascia blocks to install, more tabletop to secure to the benchwork, and a couple of braces for the bump-outs to give them rigidity. I also installed the support for the future lift bridge across the aisle to go to the future staging yard.

For those following along, a couple of pictures.


----------



## Millstonemike

John, all our build instincts are living vicariously through your pic.'s. Keep 'em coming.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I have to admit, I would have never gone for the "deluxe" route like we're doing by myself. Having an woodworking expert like Tom around makes the fancy layout possible. Make no mistake, I'm going to love the finished product, but it's way more than I originally envisioned. I figured in a couple of days after the plywood was in I'd have a track in place. hwell: Now that I'm seeing what it will be like, I think the wait will be well worth it, it should be great looking benchwork! It's nice to have a real expert at hand to show me techniques that I would have never thought of, and probably couldn't have pulled off anyway! I only hope I can do the scenery to do justice to the incredible workmanship that is developing here.


----------



## empire builder

GRJ if you had to do again would you have used the mianne lift gate? or opted for a lift up on hinges to walk in and out of layout. it seems tom is adding a version of open grid to your pre made benchwork for the facia.
but even though it seems like forever getting the benchwork and facia and homasote finished your going to have a really solid platform to work with. I am enjoying the updates and the photos of the progress keep them coming please.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'd probably keep the liftgate, though I have to say that if I were to do it again, I'd likely go back to building the benchwork. I thought the Mianne would be "mess free", but after you get the basic benchwork down, all this other work is not even close to "mess free". 

I think the finished product will be worth the wait, but it's that wait that is making me antsy.


----------



## empire builder

if you think the woods messy wait till homasote time! will assume all cutting is outside? the advantage to open grid bench work is its customizable as to risers and cross members can be cut for fascia as tom is doing now and it and the actual support t-frame is light weight yet sturdy I used 1x4's and 2x2's for the legs i'm 175 lbs and it is solid as a rock. but now if you decide for under track features with the plywood on top of the mianne benchwork your stuck to if track is in an open area of the tables that's the advantage of the open grid method you can customize it. so for giggles had you considered adding cross members to the mianne benchwork for that flexibility just asking is all.


----------



## papa3rail

The fascia looks great John.Cutting all those kerfs must have been tedious,how thick of a saw blade did you use.I like the idea of a square corner where the fascia meets the table top,will you leave it like that or do you plan to go back and add a ledge when your finished. Excellent work.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Dave, the Homasote goes on top and is trimmed to the edge of that fascia layer. Then the finish layer of 1/8" birch is glued to that base fascia layer as the finished edge, and it also covers the Homasote layer for a truly finished look.

Not sure which kerfs you're talking about, the blocks I'm doing on a chop saw. Both the table saw I'm using and the chop saw are 10" models with 60T carbide blades. For the blocks, I just measure the length, and scribe the angle on a 2x4. Set the saw and chop it to size with the correct angle. Then the blocks are glued in place using Loctite construction adhesive.


----------



## Ted W

Might be thinking you had to cut kerfs in the Luan to make the bends. You have described previously it was flexible enough to be glued to the facia blocks directly.


----------



## papa3rail

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Dave, the Homasote goes on top and is trimmed to the edge of that fascia layer. Then the finish layer of 1/8" birch is glued to that base fascia layer as the finished edge, and it also covers the Homasote layer for a truly finished look.
> 
> Not sure which kerfs you're talking about,.





gunrunnerjohn said:


> View attachment 500898


The narrow cuts on the backside of the fascia to make following the curve of the table top more manageable.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, the lauan plywood doesn't need cuts, it's actually designed to be bendable.

Radius™ Bending Plywood


----------



## papa3rail

Wow now that's a slick product.

I had imagined going through a great deal of work( as shown in the video below) when I finally get around to doing my fascia.






The website says it will do a minimum 12" radius and possibly smaller.They list Home Depot as a seller is that where you got yours.

Kudos to you for your patience and planning.As soon as I had the tops on the tables I was laying track.Another item added to the list of things I would do differently.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I get where you got the kerfs now, I've seen that used, but clearly the bendable stuff is a ton easier. With water you can make some really tight curves with it, I am pretty sure Tom has done like 6-8" diameter turns. We're using the 3/8" stuff, and once it's up and secured to the mounting blocks, it's VERY solid! After the Homasote, we'll put the 1/8" birch on, that's just aligned and glued to the base. Finally, the seams in the Homasote are filled in using SpeedFinish, and I can finally get to working on laying track!


----------



## Big Ed

I am watching.
You should have just cut that !^*%#! pole down. 

Just jumped in to give you an at-a-boy. 
As Schultz says, Very interesting......... 
Looking good John.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the thought of cutting down the pole was floated, but that would have required fixing too much stuff on the floor. Besides, I think it'll end up being an interesting feature with a hole in one of them.


----------



## Guest

*"though I have to say that if I were to do it again, I'd likely go back to building the benchwork."*

I am all for commercial and professional systems when they make sense. Cost is also an important factor. I looked at the system John and many others have used and rejected it for the following reasons:

1. The cost verses Home Depot wood stock (the savings for me amounted to very big bucks).
2. I want free access under the layout for wiring purposes. We use lots of wiring, so any obstructions that would prevent me from using a creeper is a no-go.
3. I built our layout framework in less than a week. I did not have to wait weeks or months.

View attachment 501304


View attachment 501306


I believe that what I did was the best approach for me and probably a lot of others contemplating a new layout.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Another day, today was leveling day. The layout is on carpet, and without some pads, it was sinking unevenly into the carpet. Legs could also move around, time to solve those problems. The Tom Tee patented fix, pads with teeth! A do-nut of plywood, a depression for the leg adjuster, and a piece of office chair mat with teeth glued to the bottom. These go under the legs and keep the leg from moving and also provide a much wider base for the leg.

















Of course, then there's the Pergo floor, the teeth didn't seem to stick there. So, a similar do-nut without the teeth and add a layer of carpet tape to keep the leg in place.

















Legs are all level, top is all attached, time to move on to the last of the first layout of fascia and then the Homasote goes on.


----------



## PatKn

Very clever solution to the leg problem. I will have to file that away for future reference.


----------



## MichaelE

John, I would check for level in another week or so after the carpet has finished compacting under the weight of the tables.

Hopefully it all compacts evenly and no adjustment will be required.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The leveling will indeed be checked again, but as you say, I'm going to give it some time to settle.

My other plan is to have a method of checking key points in the future, this will require me to plan ahead with points that I can check leveling.


----------



## Ted W

John, went back through the thread again for a table height and couldn’t find it. With the leveling, what layout height will you end up with once the homasote is installed?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the table height above the floor will vary, based on how much we had to raise it. It looks to be 41" high at the floor high spot, up to 42 1/2" at the floor low spots. That will result in the table being level from end to end to about 1/8". should be more than sufficient for 3-rail. Basically, Tom being a 2-railer, he likes to get things close, so his sense of perfection will probably serve me well in the future.


----------



## Guest

*"Tom being a 2-railer, he likes to get things close"*

John, you made me laugh this afternoon. The half dozen or so 2-Rail O-Gauge layouts I have visited sure make your point. The layout owners were perfectionists all-right, but that did not translate to smooth running trains.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, Tom will freely admit that his 2-rail trains have more issues on what looks like great trackwork than 3-rail trains on what looks like terrible trackwork.  He's also not a rivet counter, he just happened to get into 2-rail a long time ago. He does also have 3-rail stuff and some loops of 3-rail. I figure all the care taken in construction should translate into fairly smooth running.


----------



## AmtrackJim

PTC:
What is the device you show in post 354 that has a propane tank under your layout?


----------



## Ted W

AmtrackJim said:


> PTC:
> What is the device you show in post 354 that has a propane tank under your layout?


Brian musta been cold, looks like a propane heater to me...


----------



## Guest

Jim, it is a portable propane heater than attaches to most propane tanks. In my case a 20 LB. tank that was easy for me to fill. It was a real plus during layout construction when the temperature was 10 below. Be careful to ventilate the room. Available at Home Depot.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

My trains are all electric, I don't need propane to power them.


----------



## AmtrackJim

PTC: 
Thank you.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

My new playing field! The Homasote is all cut to size and fitted onto the platform. Still some work to do in it, and I have to cut the lift-gate free as well, but it's moving along.


----------



## Wood

Great progress John. Nicely done,


----------



## PatKn

It may seem slow to you, but it looks like you're moving along very quickly. Before you know it, trains will be running.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## SantaFeJim

GRJ -

Nice picture. Your build is really moving along at a fast pace.

BTW - Congrats on your *40,800* post. :appl:


----------



## Guest

John, your fascia is the icing on the cake! Curves are so much more appealing.

Gary.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys.  Gary, wait until you see it after the Homasote is trimmed and the finish layer is added!  I have to pick up more wood to build the elevated track supports soon...


----------



## Millstonemike

Just great.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Got one of these for cutting the Gargraves track, there'll be a lot of that soon.


----------



## ogaugeguy

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Got one of these for cutting the Gargraves track, there'll be a lot of that soon.


I think you're gonna love that little Harbor Freight cut off saw. For $39.00 total (including 20% HF discount coupon plus 6% PA tax), it can't be beat for the lightweight track cutting you'll be using it for. Love mine, it's a sweet mini beast.
Looking forward to hearing your opinion of it, John, once you use it.


----------



## cole226

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Got one of these for cutting the Gargraves track, there'll be a lot of that soon.


Oh yeah, that will be a time saver. Have the dremel with a wheel next to it to buff off the burrs and you'll be laying rails in no time.

Great job on the build, moving right along. :thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

John, you and Tom are doing a fabulous job. The table looks great even in it's unfinished state.


----------



## Chaostrain

Very well done! It has me looking forward to more.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm looking forward to more as well.


----------



## Millstonemike

ogaugeguy said:


> ...
> Looking forward to hearing your opinion of it, John, once you use it.


Ditto. Some poor reviews on HF along with good ones.

I was going to use a 1/16" metal blade in my 10" miter saw (I need to replace it with a better model anyway).


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I did some sample cuts on scrap and it seems to work really well. Time will tell when the rubber meats the road, but early results are positive.


----------



## ogaugeguy

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I did some sample cuts on scrap and it seems to work really well. Time will tell when the rubber meats the road, but early results are positive.


John, whose cutting blade did you buy for this saw? What grit are you using?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I just bought the blades from HF when I got the tool, but I have an assortment on order of various brands to see if there's a "best" one.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> My new playing field! The Homasote is all cut to size and fitted onto the platform. Still some work to do in it, and I have to cut the lift-gate free as well, but it's moving along.
> 
> View attachment 501856


I love the spot where the Heart shaped hot tub is going.
You can relax while running the trains. 
You should have made that a bit larger so the Mrs's can join you too.

In the picture, what is the round bump coming off the left side of the table for?

You may have said already and I may have missed it?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The round bump was just a place to put a feature. I'm thinking a freight station as there will be a yard exit near there, but it could be most anything. Maybe Mel's Diner would look good there.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A day's work on the layout, more progress. 

Started by enlarging the cuts for the liftgate so I can fit some J-channel in to protect the edges of the Homasote.









Routing out a relief for the J-channel to sit level with the top of the layout.









Doing the same for the lift-out hatch opening.









Routing the Homasote to be exactly even with the fascia foundation layer.

















Finish up by sanding the foundation and Homasote layer.









Cleaning off everything in preparation of the putty.









Tom at the other end sanding the seams before I come along with the vacuum.









First layer of mud to fill all the screw depressions and seams of the Homasote, time to knock off for dinner!


----------



## Spence

That's a lot of prep work but it will all be worth it in the end.


----------



## Rich883

Very nice progress! Looking good.


----------



## PatKn

Wow. Spare no effort. This layout will be a work of art. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Today I'll be sanding all that flat and touching up any spots we missed. I also have to pick a paint color for the base, I'm thinking a darker brown this time.


----------



## Big Ed

What is the "mud"?
Plaster?


Edit,
I never worked with Homasote, I see you said putty.
I guess this putty was made just for Homasote?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It's actually stuff that flooring contractors use to level floor underlayment before installing the floor.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Today I'll be sanding all that flat and touching up any spots we missed. I also have to pick a paint color for the base, I'm thinking a darker brown this time.


I plan on using a mixed color roller technique for the base (green and greenish brown) for a natural scenic effect. Then there's no need to rush the actual scenery.

Here's two techniques (not in the right colors): *



* and *



*.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think I'll do it more traditional.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Moving forward, after the first sanding pass, I installed the J-Channel on the lift-gate and the pop-out panel. That also allowed me to add the final sprinkle of screws that were waiting until I slid the J-Channel under the Homasote. Next will come another round of fill for the new screw holes and all the ones that didn't get fully filled. I can also cut the pop-out panel out of the 1/2" birch and have it ready to paint with the rest of the table, the size is fixed.

This should keep the Homasote from getting beat up over the years on the edges. All the edges should be covered when we're done.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Done for the day, cut the hatch to size and stuck it in the hole. Of course, now I have to go under to push it up to get it out!


----------



## wvgca

Put a handle on it, and build it into the scenery ?


----------



## DMASSO

Looking great. Cannot wait for the track.


----------



## PatKn

The j-channel was a great idea. I don't know if I would have thought of that. Nice job, John.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

wvgca said:


> Put a handle on it, and build it into the scenery ?


Since I'd normally be under taking it off, it'll have a handle on the bottom to lift it up and then lower it out of the way.


DMASSO said:


> Looking great. Cannot wait for the track.


Me too, I'm itching to get some trains running!


PatKn said:


> The j-channel was a great idea. I don't know if I would have thought of that. Nice job, John.


Thanks Pat, to be brutally honest, that was Tom's idea. I was mulling over some sort of sealing for the edges and he came up with this one. At least it was my idea to route out the recess so it would lay flatter.  Overall, I'm happy with the look, gotta get some sealing done and paint down.


----------



## Guest

I also wouldn't have thought of the J channel but it's a great idea.

I had a pop up hatch on a G scale layout in the '90s. It was behind the town buildings in the back left corner of the layout which was against 2 walls. I glued tall pine trees to it so it looked like a forest behind the town. I made good use of it when laying track and building scenery but fortunately didn't need it as I never had a derailment back there.

You guys are doing nice work. The table is looking very good.


----------



## Dieseler

One day perhaps we will see this layout in a magazine !


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'll be happy to see it running trains in my basement!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Since I'm coming up on spending time under the layout, I figured it was time to get this project out of the way. It's always hard to strike a balance between comfort and accessibility for working under the layout, here's my entry in the sweepstakes. 

I had some old fiberglass molded chairs that I've had for about 50 years, and several were living in the attic. I was going to toss them, glad I didn't. With some carpet glides, a bit of 2x3 lumber, and some screws, I have a layout work chair. When I sit in it, my head just clears the beams by a little over an inch, the perfect height. I have back support so I won't be cramping up after a couple of minutes working under there.


----------



## Big Ed

What.......no beverage holder.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

GOODNESS, how can I have overlooked that!


----------



## wvgca

a good way to get more life out of something before it hits the garbage ... but it does need a beverage holder, lol


----------



## cole226

Call me *loco*, but I'd call that good old yankee engine-uity!!!


----------



## Millstonemike

"Necessity is the mother of invention."

Plato, 4th Century BC


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I just have to add the drink holder and it'll be perfect!


----------



## PatKn

Drink holder is a must.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

All the fill is done, dust all cleaned off, just have to mask the columns and I'll be ready to slap a couple coats of paint on it.


----------



## Guest

John, the chair is a clever and very useful creation. :thumbsup:


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> All the fill is done, dust all cleaned off, just have to mask the columns and I'll be ready to slap a couple coats of paint on it.



I am not trying to correct you on spelling. 
But I only see one column in the picture?
I took a second look before posting, there is another off to the left?
Edit, I went back and searched I see two now.

Great shot of the whole layout.
Going to be nice, I know.:smilie_daumenpos:

Curious, are you keeping a tally of all you are spending on this?
Having the computer is nice to enter all your receipts.

Don't tell me you don't want to know.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Technically Ed, there's 2.5 columns. 









Actually Ed, I really don't want to know what it cost, no careful accounting for me!  I do know that I have over 3K in track and switches, and I'm preparing another order to Ross! I also have closer to 5K in the actual benchwork and material for the top. I figure by the time the track is laid, there'll be around 10K in the sucker. Of course, then comes all the scenery, that's extra...


----------



## Big Ed

What is the black thing up top of the half column?
An emergency light? 
A speaker to call you to dinner?

I blew up the picture but can't really see what it is.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's a security camera, it's part of my alarm system. If the alarm goes off, I get a clip from before and after the trigger on all the camera in the system.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it's all brown! Next step, the finish fascia to cover everything on the edges, can't wait! Did a quick pass doing touch-up of any spots I missed...


----------



## wvgca

looks alright ..
coming along nicely ..


----------



## ogaugeguy

Looking good, John. You're to be commended as you've certainly done a lot in a relatively short time span. (By the way, have you scaled back your repair/mod activities or are you still accepting items from people?
Will there be backdrop(s) where the layout sides meet the wall?
Also, what do you envision eventually installing from the finished fascia board to the carpeting on the floor? Paneling, cloth draping, bookcase type or open shelving, or will it remain open as it is now?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I have actually not done much on repairs and upgrades for several weeks, I have to get some of those out soon.

I'm thinking of dark drapes from below the fascia to the floor. They'll follow the curves to accentuate the form of the layout base. That comes later after I get track down and most of the wiring done.


----------



## Millstonemike

John, just a thought ...

If the final fascia will have nicely finished looked, you may want to add that after you've been climbing all over the layout laying track and what not.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I could, but the fascia is quite solid, and I don't see damaging it all that much. I'm not planning on being a bull in a china shop, but things happen I guess.


----------



## Guest

John, the table looks great. The brown paint makes a big difference. :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It does look better with a color and not the blotches from all the plaster.  I need to find some enamel to do the aluminum J-channel that will be close to the background. Of course, I'm hoping that in time most of the brown is covered by real scenery, but early on I guess it'll be in plain sight. 

Time to start digging out track!


----------



## PatKn

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Time to start digging out track!


Yea! Now for the fun part. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

In tallying up the hours I've spent so far getting it to this state, I'm somewhat floored!


----------



## empire builder

gunrunnerjohn

the platform looks really nice painted you and tom did a good job. as to scenery well dream like we did as kids and all will be as you envisioned it, until called for dinnertime! im not sure whom is more excited on layout progress yourself or the kibitzer's in the balcony reading the daily updates.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm sure I'll get tons of neat ideas for finishing the scenery once the track is in.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> In tallying up the hours I've spent so far getting it to this state, I'm somewhat floored!



Add in the years you have been dreaming about it too.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, there is that factor as well. However, sometimes dreams do come true!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A little more progress today. Put all the finish fascia on, had to make a trip to HD for 60 more clamps! Tomorrow I get to see what it looks like with the finish fascia on it after removing the 100+ clamps! 

The top layer is just some plywood to keep the fascia layer flat and in full contact with the base.


----------



## empire builder

looking good! have a question how do you access that top shelf area in rear of large table or did I miss the area where a pop out was made from under the layouts main table.


----------



## PatKn

That table is really looking beautiful now, John. I think you need a few more clamps.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## Big Ed

empire builder said:


> looking good! have a question how do you access that top shelf area in rear of large table or did I miss the area where a pop out was made from under the layouts main table.


Behind the box you can just make out a access hole there.

John, you going to have a clamp sale soon. Ha Ha Ha
Over a 100 CLAMPS ! lol


----------



## Traindiesel

Nice work with the glue, John. I like how you..... stick with this project!


----------



## Spence

That fascia looks fantastic.


----------



## Spence

Traindiesel said:


> Nice work with the glue, John. I like how you..... stick with this project!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

empire builder said:


> looking good! have a question how do you access that top shelf area in rear of large table or did I miss the area where a pop out was made from under the layouts main table.


I'm still thinking about that. The original concept was a separate area with a town and Streets track. However, we were talking about maybe continuing up from the second level all around the one end and being able to connect from the main level to the top shelf. I'm still looking at that option.



Big Ed said:


> Behind the box you can just make out a access hole there.
> 
> John, you going to have a clamp sale soon. Ha Ha Ha
> Over a 100 CLAMPS ! lol


You need some clamps? I have a deal for you! 



Traindiesel said:


> Nice work with the glue, John. I like how you..... stick with this project!


 I was careful not to stick "to" the project and just concentrated on sticking "with" the project. 

I'm eager to take all the clamps and support boards off to see the fascia in it's full beauty, but I"m going to wait the full 24 hour cure time. I took the clamps off a small curved section on the inside when doing the support layer of fascia after a few hours, don't you know the stinkin' think sprung out and came loose!  I'm taking special care not to make that mistake again!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

And here's what it looks like without all the crap clamped to it, starting to look pretty good. 

Time to work on the second level platform.


----------



## MichaelE

This will all be on one flat level with no change in terrain elevation Jim?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

There will be elevated tracks, and I'm working on a new track plan with an additional level. Turns out, by going all around the one end of the table, I can make it to the top platform from the second level with a 2.7% grade, good enough for anything I could bring up top.


----------



## MichaelE

That's not bad. Anything should be able to pull that grade.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I've done experiments with a dozen cars and a Legacy diesel on seven and eight percent grades, so a 2.7 would be duck soup.  I'm just looking for small stuff to be able to make the trip. I might even break down and put a little turntable up there to turn the locomotive around!


----------



## Lehigh74

Looks like the corner of the platform nearest your back entryway is rounded. Did you change your mind about having a yard near the back door or did I miss that?


----------



## ogaugeguy

Looking really good!!!
Though in your early planning stage, what terrain are you planning for the inclined area? Mountainous, trestles, or a combination of both?
As I said, looking great so far but omg, there's still so very much to do, i.e., track, electrical, scenery, roads, water effects, various structures, etc..
Have you decided on a specific era and locale, ie., urban, suburban, country and from your neck of the woods, or western or central USA?? 
I know you've squirreled away lots of motive power and rolling stock, John, but have you also been collecting structures along the way, or have you yet to start that collection phase?
Doing a layout the size you've decided on is obviously encompasses a great voluminous work hours.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Great work John! I am envious.


----------



## Guest

John, the finished facia really enhances your layout. Pat yourselves on the back. You have curves that Mae West would be proud of. Well done!

Gary.


----------



## Guest

The fascia looks great! You've gotten an awful lot done in a few days and did an outstanding job.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lehigh74 said:


> Looks like the corner of the platform nearest your back entryway is rounded. Did you change your mind about having a yard near the back door or did I miss that?


No mind changing here. Right past that curve is a dead flat section about 18" long. I know it's flat as I put a 2x4 along the edge and routed the table to be perfectly aligned with it. That will be where the yard tracks exit. I figured to put the fascia on now and finish it so before the yard is added, it'll all look finished. I'll just work over the fascia when I add the yard bridge supports, they have a solid foundation under the fascia for support. Also, I don't know exactly what form the bridge supports will take, so having the fascia all along will allow them to be any size and still not have extra finish work after the bridge goes in. The yard won't be added for a spell, and I didn't want to leave a big void in the side of the platform after going to all this effort to make it fancy!


ogaugeguy said:


> Looking really good!!!
> Though in your early planning stage, what terrain are you planning for the inclined area? Mountainous, trestles, or a combination of both?
> As I said, looking great so far but omg, there's still so very much to do, i.e., track, electrical, scenery, roads, water effects, various structures, etc..
> Have you decided on a specific era and locale, ie., urban, suburban, country and from your neck of the woods, or western or central USA??
> I know you've squirreled away lots of motive power and rolling stock, John, but have you also been collecting structures along the way, or have you yet to start that collection phase?
> Doing a layout the size you've decided on is obviously encompasses a great voluminous work hours.


I have a bunch of assorted structures and landscape materials. It'll probably be an eclectic mix of urban, industrial, and a little open land. I'm not going to try to model any specific location, though the general scenery will doubtless mimic our area as that's what we know and see. I was going to just lay the basic track plan and add stuff later. However, I've been convinced to spend more time and add some details to the track plan before I start laying track. I'm trying to hold my "get the trains running" instinct in check and do more planning. The end result will doubtless be much better if I keep that instinct in check. Also, the addition of the curves and extra space on the platform kinda' shot my earlier track plan, so I'm rethinking some of the concepts. I'm still planning on the large folded and stacked dogbone. One of my primary goals was to have at least one long continuous track that I could run larger consists and not be nose to tail. The folded dogbone looks to be giving me a 120 to 130 foot continuous run. However, I decided I'm going to add some additional sidings right up front as without the yard I'll have very few places to park any trains.

I've always been a more "shoot from the hip" guy when it came to layouts, so all this planning is slowing me down.  I'd love to have trains running tomorrow, but since I'm thinking this is probably the "final" layout I'll build, I want to do it as nice as possible.


----------



## empire builder

well in the interim a medium oval of track that allows a train to run like you had on the carpet would solve that itch to run a train while planning the actual track plan!

the fascia really looks good you did a nice job on it. it will be fantastic to one day seeing your big boy plying the rails on your new layout.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think I may drop a loop of Fastrack for fun.


----------



## Guest

John, FWIW I have never built a layout exactly as per the plan but not because I didn't try. I have drawn detailed plans with to scale buildings and scenery features and they looked great on paper, but when I built the layout I found that what looks good on paper doesn't always look great in reality. With my current layout the only thing I didn't change from the original plan was the E shape of the benchwork. Pretty much everything else, including the track, was changed. I'm not saying you shouldn't plan, just look at the plan as a suggestion with lots of room for improvement.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Gosh Joe, even my original benchwork design changed, I started with this. 









My original track was going to look like this. At this point I had already modified the benchwork to accommodate the changes I made "on the fly" as I built the base. This went out the window when Tom show up and we put all the curves and the 3+ feet of extra benchwork on!









Neither the track plan or the original benchwork design survived to see the light of day.


----------



## JKP

looking good, things don't always go as 'planned'. I look forward to the updates :thumbsup:


----------



## papa3rail

Well it's been nearly a month and over 10 pages of posting since I last checked in on this build (shame on me).

John I consider myself a craftsmen (foolishly though that may be)and I have to say you are doing an amazing job on the layout.The information you are passing on is fantastic,the work is all top notch,its well planned and one of the best layout build threads I have ever seen (I'm so jealous). I will try and be a little more regular in my commenting and thanks for doing such a fantastic job on posting your progress.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, if I have to be brutally honest, Tom is the one that brought all the good ideas and the craftsmanship to the benchwork so far. My contribution has been to learn as much as I can from him and then work on that step until it's done. I will say, I think I could do a credible job on another layout using this technique now that I've learned a bunch of tricks from the master. 

I've been stalled here for a spell, not because there's not more to do, but I've had so many other demands on my time, and I have to get the building materials for the next step.


----------



## highvoltage

Welcome back, and I'll add my name to the long list of people looking forward to seeing more progress reports (and pics  ).


----------



## SantaFeJim

It has been a good while since I last visited this Forum. First on my priority list was to check the status on GRJ’s layout. Almost a month since the last update. I hope everything is okay with John.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

All is well Jim, I just have had a bunch of other family stuff, visitors, and trying to catch up and get ready for York. I haven't abandoned the idea of having a layout.


----------



## PENNSY484

Man, I just read through this from the start. Wife is like, what are you reading! I sure hope you didn't forget. :laugh:

Looks quite professional so far. Going to be great. 

Looking forward to following your progress after York!


----------



## MichaelE

I wish I had that space for HO. I'd love to have 48" radius curves.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I have some family situations to deal with, then I'll get some track laid so I can run trains for real.


----------



## Big Ed

Need a hand? :appl: 

I waited since 2011 or so, another year won't matter.


----------



## Big Ed

Almost 3 months and no updates?
You were going like a bat out of hell........then pooooooof nothing.:dunno:



Tick, tick, tick ,tick, tick.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, that's what happens when life intervenes. Sometimes things just don't go as planned Ed, and this is one of those times.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Yep, that's what happens when life intervenes. Sometimes things just don't go as planned Ed, and this is one of those times.


Nothing medical I hope?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Nothing medical, perhaps a little family insanity.


----------



## ogaugeguy

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Yep, that's what happens when life intervenes. Sometimes things just don't go as planned Ed, and this is one of those times.


Ain't it the truth, John. And when it's family you can't say no or let it otherwise slide.
Don't know what your situation is but had a retired coworker with a family experience where he and his wife were empty nesters who loved their "newfound life" when suddenly and unexpectedly an adult daughter with children needed to move back home. It wasn't a smooth or seamless transition considering he and his wife had downsized to another home in the interim.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, you understand my situation perfectly in that case. No, it's not a seamless transition!


----------



## PatKn

Good luck with your family insanity, John. Have something similar going on myself. Tends to cause some change in plans. Glad it's not medical.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We're working it out. Still trying to get all the stuff sorted out and moved into place, but it will work out eventually I hope. hwell:


----------



## Bull6791

John. Have a Happy Holiday. You and your family.


----------



## Bull6791

Pat. Have a Happy Holiday. You and your family.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks, hope your Holiday is great as well.


----------



## Bull6791

John. Question. I know it is expensive but where is a cheap or the cheapest place to get fast track. I don’t know if you use it. Thanks.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I don't know of a "cheap" place to get it, Fastrack tends to be fairly expensive. You just missed it, I sold a ton of Fastrack at rock bottom prices as I'm moving on the Gargraves track and Ross switches.


----------



## PatKn

Thanks Bill. Same to you. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bull6791

John. Why are you getting out of fast track. Just curious. Thanks.


----------



## SantaFeJim

Bull6791 said:


> John. Why are you getting out of fast track. Just curious. Thanks.


Really? Have you seen John’s benchwork? You don’t put that much $$$ and effort into benchwork to make a layout using fast track.


----------



## Bull6791

Jim. No I never saw his bench work. Also why did he use fast track in the first place.


----------



## SantaFeJim

Bill,

I suggest that you read this entire thread. It is very informative, and well worth the effort.

Why he used fast track in the past is for him to answer.


----------



## Bull6791

JIm. What is johns bench work.


----------



## Tom_C

Bull, Look through the thread! There's 49 pages and John has posted progress pics.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Bull6791 said:


> John. Why are you getting out of fast track. Just curious. Thanks.


Noisy, and appearance wise it's just not that realistic looking.


----------



## Bull6791

John: question: the new track you are using gargraves does it have to be fastened down. Meaning fast track can just sit on plywood on screwing down. That is why I like it. No holes in the wood. 
John. You bought a pre fab bench work. Thanks.


----------



## Tom_C

Bull6791 said:


> John. You bought a pre fab bench work. Thanks.


Prefab? The plywood, perhaps.  And there are other ways to fasten track without nailing or screwing.


----------



## Bull6791

Tom. The reason I like fast track is because it has a roadbed on it and it sits right on the plywood. Gargraves track can that just sit on the plywood. Gargaves track does not have a roadbed so it has to be nailed down. 
My whole idea with track is to not put holes in my plywood or wreck it. Thanks.


----------



## Tom_C

As I said, there are more ways to fasten track than to nail it down. Silicon caulk is one way. *ANY* track can be laid down on plywood, it's all personal preference. It's true that "snap track" solutions like fastrack is fairly stable without fastening it down, but it will still float around a little bit. Non-roadbed track may float around more, but a few dabs of silicon here and there will keep it relatively in place. If it's a more permanent platform more fastening may be desired. It's all dependent on what your objective is.


----------



## Bull6791

Tom, fast track has a roadbed on it. So if it is laid on plywood and not fastened down it does not move. 
Here is my question: gargaves track with out a roadbed if you just lay it in plywood like fast track and run trains on it doesn’t it move. Tom I thought all track without a roadbed should be fastens down or it would move. Thanks


----------



## Big Ed

Bull6791 said:


> Tom. The reason I like fast track is because it has a roadbed on it and it sits right on the plywood. Gargraves track can that just sit on the plywood. Gargaves track does not have a roadbed so it has to be nailed down.
> My whole idea with track is to not put holes in my plywood or wreck it. Thanks.



Why are you worried about putting holes in the plywood?
It is for your layout? 
Unless you plan on building something else out of it?

Gargraves track and Ross switches are far more superior to fast track.
You can add a roadbed, it will look a whole lot better then the fast track.


----------



## Bull6791

Tom do you fasten your track down. If so how. What happens if you want to change your layout design. Thanks.


----------



## Bull6791

Ed. What makes Gargraves track and Ross switches better than fast track. Thanks.


----------



## Tom_C

Bull6791 said:


> Tom do you fasten your track down. If so how. What happens if you want to change your layout design. Thanks.


No, but I only do temporary layouts for Christmas, and then I take it up.

But, 'soft' glue like caulk is easy to remove. You aren't icing a cake, just a dab here and there. But Ed is right. Drilling or nailing a little hole in the wood won't do any harm. If you want to cover it up later it's simple with caulk or other filler material. Don't stress.

And finally. It's pretty obvious that you are likely going to work with a 4x8 platform, so again, don't stress so much about it. It's not going to cause you a lot of issues no matter what you use for track or how you fasten it.


----------



## Big Ed

Bull6791 said:


> Ed. What makes Gargraves track and Ross switches better than fast track. Thanks.


Quality.
Most go with Gargraves track and Ross switches.
Gargraves has flex track that you can bend for a curve too.

I have all Lionel tube track, I never had fast track, I personally never liked the look of it. But that is me.

I think Gargraves looks better, if I did it all over that is the way I would go.

Now why are you worried about putting holes in the wood?
If you decide to change things around there are ways to hide the holes.
Your not going to "wreck" the wood.
Unless your planning on building furniture out of it.


----------



## Bull6791

Ed. Thanks. Is there different Gargraves track. If so which one would I buy.


----------



## Big Ed

Bull6791 said:


> Ed. Thanks. Is there different Gargraves track. If so which one would I buy.


Take a look, http://www.gargraves.com/

They say that the Ross switches are superior to Gargraves.
http://rossswitches.com/

I never had either, John likes the best and he has tons of money to buy them.


----------



## Bull6791

Ed. How is tubular track that you use.


----------



## Tom_C

Bull6791 said:


> Tom, fast track has a roadbed on it. So if it is laid on plywood and not fastened down it does not move.


Yes, it does. It may not move much, but it moves. 

Tubular track is the stuff like 0/27 track. There may be other tubular track, but I'm not familiar with it. It's been in use since pre WWII.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Bull6791 said:


> John: question: the new track you are using gargraves does it have to be fastened down. Meaning fast track can just sit on plywood on screwing down. That is why I like it. No holes in the wood.
> John. You bought a pre fab bench work. Thanks.


Well, I bought the Mianne benchwork to start, but it ended up being anything but "pre-fab"! That's what all the pictures are about.


----------



## Bull6791

John. The Mianne bench work you bought if it’s not pre fab what is it. 
Gargaves track. What is the best way to fasten it down. How are you going to fasten yours down or does it sit on wood like fast track. Thanks.


----------



## Tom_C

This is me.


----------



## Millstonemike




----------



## Chiefmcfuz

John you are a very patient person. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Bull6791 said:


> John. The Mianne bench work you bought if it’s not pre fab what is it.


If you have looked at all the pictures and still have to ask that question, I really don't have an answer. 


> Gargaves track. What is the best way to fasten it down. How are you going to fasten yours down or does it sit on wood like fast track. Thanks.


My track will be on 1/4" foam roadbed, I'm planning on gluing things down when done. It will initially be screwed down as it's flex track, but after everything is formed and laid, I'll remove the screws to minimize the transmission of vibration to the table.


----------



## Bull6791

John. Good luck with your bench work and your layout. The track that you are using that is Gargraves 3 rail flex track. Thanks.


----------



## Bull6791

John. That bench work is fantastic. Your doing a great job.


----------



## Big Ed

Bull6791 said:


> Ed. How is tubular track that you use.


Answered in a private message if you see them.


----------



## Bull6791

John, I can’t wait until your bench work is finished and the trains are running. It looks great. I am jealous. Lol.


----------



## Bull6791

How much longer until trains run. Thanks.


----------



## SantaFeJim

GRJ, Looks like it is time to dust off your crystal ball.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the plan was to have the track laid by Christmas, clearly that planning went out the window! New plan, ASAP.


----------



## Bull6791

John. Like I said. That is a great train table/bench work. You did a fabulous job. I don’t care when you get the trains up and running because I am so looking forward to seeing them run. I am so jealous. Lol.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing them run as well!


----------



## Bull6791

John question: do you live in the Allen town area. I live in Delaware county. Also are you a carpenter by trade. Just asking.


----------



## Bull6791

I just don’t know what area of SE-PA. Thanks.


----------



## Bull6791

I forget don’t you work at a train shop. Thanks. I thought I heard it some where.


----------



## Bull6791

Hey john. One of my favorite parts of your new bench work is the hatch in the center. I really like how you open the hatch and can go under the table and there is a chair to sit on and work under there. Both chair and hatch are really cool.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I live in the middle of Montgomery County, AAMOF, I live in Center Point, which is truly the "center point" of the county. There's even a concrete marker around here somewhere that pinpoints the exact center of the county. 

That chair was an ad-hoc idea that worked out well. It glides on the carpet, but has enough friction to stay in place when I'm working. My heat clears the overhead benchwork by about 2", just right.

Not a carpenter, I had a master builder helping with all the fancy stuff. I'm actually an electrical engineer by trade, much of my time was doing aerospace work.

I am a certified MTH and Lionel tech, and I do repairs and upgrades for Henning's Trains and my freelance work. I also have a number of products I've designed and they're sold through Henning's Trains, look for the JWA products under the Electrical products on the website.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I moved the off-topic discussion to this thread.

What Runs with LC & Other Questions

We can continue the discussion there.


----------



## Bull6791

John. Happy New Year. Have a healthy a great 2020


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks, this is the year I finally get track down!


----------



## Bull6791

Hey. I can’t wait. Your bench work is awesome. Just curious what size Mianne bench did you get. Thanks.


----------



## Tom_C

The dimensions are in the pics on page 1.


----------



## Bull6791

I don’t see the one John got on the Mianne website. Thanks


----------



## Tom_C

In the thread he indicates it's a custom design.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

Great job GRJ! Laying track in 2020 is in your future! 

Sent from my SM-T387P using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Most of the Mianne stuff is custom designs, you give them your dimensions and they design the benchwork to fit. As long as you stay within their guidelines, it's very flexible. I also changed the benchwork in size and the location of stuff after the fact, but I had a good starting point.

This is what I got from Mianne, I closed up one end, put a angle on the side, and moved the liftbridge over. Then, after we started to put the top on, I extended it about 3 1/2 feet to just less than 24 feet long and about 13 feet wide at the left and 9 at the right. Obviously, the edges got lots of curves as well.


----------



## Bull6791

when is the kick off party for when you start laying down some track. Lol


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

Bull6791 said:


> when is the kick off party for when you start laying down some track. Lol


I think John needs a party that helps produce a track plan first!!! 

Seriously, I know John has had his hands full lately. So I'm just ribbing him in good fun. But I'd certainly be playing around with some track-plan computer software like RR-Track at this point BEFORE stocking up on track. I'm actually amazed John's superb benchwork got as far as it did without an "official" track plan!!!  But I have no doubts that John's layout will do his benchwork proud... and then some. 

David


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I had "sort of" a track plan, and that's what my original benchwork was built around. You may have remembered seeing this track plan posted?









Then Tom came over and we started with the super fancy benchwork and came up with a bunch of enhancements to the track plan. At that point, we were flying somewhat by the seat of our pants, so I have to get my current table dimensions into RR-Track and refine the track plan. Putting the curved dimensions into RR-Track turns out to be a giant PITA, so that's where I stalled.


----------



## Bull6791

John. What software are you using. Any rail. Scram or something else. Also who is Tom. The master builder. Thanks.


----------



## SantaFeJim

Bull6791 said:


> John. What software are you using. Any rail. Scram or something else. Also who is Tom. The master builder. Thanks.


Here is your "Golden Chance" John...


----------



## Bull6791

Question: track planning software. Is one better than the other or they are all the same. Thanks.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer

Bull6791 said:


> Question: track planning software. Is one better than the other or they are all the same. Thanks.


Track planning software is a personal thing -- like PC computers vs. Mac computers. Once you travel down one road, the other choices are pretty much non-existent because of the learning curves involved.

I chose RR-Track years ago when it was the only game in town, and I learned it well. It's now second nature to me. And even though I'm a Mac person these days, I run a Windows partition using Parallels on the Mac whenever I need to check out a layout design in RR-Track.

RR-Track IS the best out there IMHO, because the author(s) spent lots of time providing support for different track systems and building/accessory libraries. That doesn't come for free though, so there's a nominal cost to RR-Track which I never minded paying because software support isn't just a labor of love -- software engineers need to get paid for their work.

Over the years, other knock-off software like SCARM came along. And it's a business model I can't understand -- nor did I ever give SCARM the time of day because it's "free" and I wanted the software to be supported years later -- not just be some freebie package by someone tinkering with software and having fun for the heck of it, if you know what I mean. Nevertheless, SCARM has a decent following these days BECAUSE it's "free", and today's generation of apps users doesn't like paying for software.  

Whichever software you ultimately use, take the time to LEARN the "ins-and-outs" of it. Because once you become fluent in one track planning s/w package, you're unlikely gonna want to look at anything else. Ever.

David


----------



## Spence

I’ve said this before but I must reiterate this point. David; you are one of the most eloquent writers I have seen. your post are always thorough in your response and to the point always. I always enjoy reading them.


----------



## Bull6791

David. Thank you for your information.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> SCARM has a decent following these days BECAUSE it's "free", and today's generation of apps users doesn't like paying for software.


It's no longer free, so there's less incentive to try it.

I have AnyRail and RR-Track. I only recently got RR-Track, and I'm not very proficient with it, maybe I'll send my track plan up to you Dave and you can get the new table shape in it.


----------



## Tom_C

I've only used anyrail, and it's easy to use. I thought the price was right at about $60, give or take. Any rail design software is worth having.

I feel we're hijacking another thread.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's no longer free, so there's less incentive to try it.


Last I looked, it's free to use for up to 100 items. That's a great way to get started to new modelers.


----------



## Bull6791

John. How have you been.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Still hanging in there.


----------



## Bull6791

Do you have any of the Gargraves track yet.


----------



## Big Ed

Looking good, this thread has jumped 10,000 views in the last 30 days.


----------



## callmeIshmael2

Excellent table space, John. Am really looking forward to see your layout in all/any stages.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm looking forward to it too, I'm getting pretty antsy to make some more progress!


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

Patience is sometimes the hardest thing to have lol. Especially in this hobby. When you get back to work where is your starting point? 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Next up is first positioning the switches along the front as a majority of them are all kinda' grouped there. Then I'll do the ground level track before adding the grade base for the second level. The switches are kinda' the anchor point as they have to be right.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

Is it placement or is wiring for the switches done right away? 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Can't wire them until you know where they're going!  I obviously won't "nail" them down before considering the wiring, but first I have to be sure exactly of the position they'll live in.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

Yeah, I found that out the hard way on some of my switches. Thank God for the padding I use as my base. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Chiefmcfuz said:


> Thank God for the padding I use as my base.


Was that so you could hit your head without hurting it?


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Was that so you could hit your head without hurting it?


Yes lol! 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## fredvon4

Is this project on hold?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Life intervened, but it's not dead, just sleeping for the moment.


----------



## fredvon4

can relate...was concerned with new forum if I missed an episode or two....


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

Work has been super busy, any updates John? 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Not really, I have been "adjusting" my track plan and realizing that I have the wrong assortment of switches. However, I think I'm about ready to lay some track, just got to get some time.


----------



## Big Ed

Might take a day to remove all the cobwebs before you continue.🙄🙃


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, cleaning them off now.


----------



## Big Ed

I been waiting since 2012, another year won't matter. 😄
Though I do wish you would start up again, soon it will be time to rip out what you built and start all over.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Gee, I haven't been waiting that long. However, there will be no "ripping it out and starting over".


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Gee, I haven't been waiting that long. However, there will be no "ripping it out and starting over".


You talked about it since you joined this site, 2012.
I believe you were running an 4x8 or floor layout back then?

Those damn spiders will make a mess quick, I spray around the basement floors and ceiling occasionally.
It keeps them away for a while.
But that is in my dungeon , you shouldn't have that many in your room?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

So far I don't have an insect issue down here, but that could change.


----------



## Millstonemike

First Defense: Spray outside the house (condo). Cover the area where the house meets the ground and through to the underside of the lowest tiers of the siding. I use Ortho bug killer in the hose application. Haven't seen a bug in my basement in 40 years. I also use it on the yard, bushes and trees. Stops the mosquito problem outside. Once a year usually does it. A second late summer application if it's a rainy summer.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Started cutting wood for the ramps, I've also "revised" the track plan some. The blue foam is just for temporary support, the wood has to come back out for a little more work before it gets nailed down.


----------



## Lehigh74

Nice to see you finally putting down the Gargraves / Ross. I just looked up the price for the double slip switches with DZ-2500 machines. Wow. I’ll have to break an engine so I can drop it off and see your progress in person.


----------



## Millstonemike

Glad you're back to laying track. The rest of us will be highly entertained.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lehigh74 said:


> Nice to see you finally putting down the Gargraves / Ross. I just looked up the price for the double slip switches with DZ-2500 machines. Wow. I’ll have to break an engine so I can drop it off and see your progress in person.


I think you need to break about three of them to cover the switches. I just tallied up what I still need, around $850 more going to Ross for switches!


Millstonemike said:


> Glad you're back to laying track. The rest of us will be highly entertained.


I live to entertain.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Started cutting wood for the ramps, I've also "revised" the track plan some. The blue foam is just for temporary support, the wood has to come back out for a little more work before it gets nailed down.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 547623
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 547621



ALL RIGHT SOON SMOKE WILL BE BLOWING.
In the second picture what is the boxy looking thing up left for?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Boxy looking thing? I think you need to be more specific.


----------



## cole226

I think Ed's talking about the indoor unit for the mini-split. 

It's for air conditioning/heatpump Ed.


----------



## cole226

John,
Good to see your back on _*track.*_


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I hope to be trackin' soon.


----------



## Big Ed

cole226 said:


> I think Ed's talking about the indoor unit for the mini-split.
> 
> It's for air conditioning/heatpump Ed.


Thank you.


----------



## Lee Willis

Well, it is coming along nicely John. Looks very neat and tidy, too.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We'll see Lee, but so far it's taking shape. Keep in mind this is the biggest layout I've done, and I'm blazing new ground with flex track and the like. I've always used sectional track, it's been a whole new experience.  However, I am certainly looking forward to being able to run on my own layout. Having the club closed down for all this time has made limited running time, my locomotives are getting all rusty from lack of use.


----------



## Spence

I’m glad you are finally spending time on your own project rather than someone else’s.


----------



## Big Ed

cole226 said:


> I think Ed's talking about the indoor unit for the mini-split.
> 
> It's for air conditioning/heatpump Ed.


Now that I looked again I see the WHITE box on the wall, that is for the AC/heat?

What I am asking about is WOOD unfinished, mounted to the wall about 8 or 10" above the layout. Looks like part of the table? It is in almost every picture.
I tried to use paint but it keeps telling me invalid file name when I go to post.


----------



## Lehigh74

Ed - That is the platform for a small town and a Streets or wire guided vehicle system.


----------



## Big Ed

Lehigh74 said:


> Ed - That is the platform for a small town and a Streets or wire guided vehicle system.


Ahhh, OK Thanks


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, not to worry Ed, that was a second level. However, we were talking about it this weekend, and it's going away. I was putting a town up there, but it would be so far away from the viewers that they wouldn't be able to see it. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but I'm going to dispense with it. I'll be planning the scenery to be closer to the viewers.

The good news is, I can use that part of the Mianne benchwork for the yard that will be coming right after this part has track and trains running.


----------



## Lee Willis

gunrunnerjohn said:


> We'll see Lee, . . . I'm blazing new ground with flex track and the like.


Ninety per cent of my layout's track Atlas Flextrack. I just love it and would never use anything else. It takes some learning and more preparation and planning, but once you get past that, it is just so much better to use, because you can get _exactly _what you want: a 73 inch diameter turn instead of 72, to put the track right _there, _just where and as you want it. Yes!! Easy to do. Or slowly decrease the radius of a turn as the track proceeds into the turn, smoothlydecreasing radius? Yes, you can do that!! Easy to follow any route you want, too, if you plan ahead.


----------



## highvoltage

Big Ed said:


> Now that I looked again I see the WHITE box on the wall, that is for the AC/heat?...


Yes, it's called a mini-split. The evaporator is in the white plastic housing, the condenser is outside. Makes for a quick installation if you need a bit of AC or heat in a not too large area.


----------



## Big Ed

highvoltage said:


> Yes, it's called a mini-split. The evaporator is in the white plastic housing, the condenser is outside. Makes for a quick installation if you need a bit of AC or heat in a not too large area.


Thanks
I never had one.
I was asking about the box shelf he was planning for a town.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

What box?


----------



## sjm9911

Now you know why he never finished it Ed!  He keeps rebuilding it. Its like the Winchester house.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I've been thinking about that shelf for a long time. I finally came to realize that what I had planned for it wouldn't have worked out that well. It'd too far from the action to see what is going on there. Also, at the height it was at, it would have further restricted viewing. I think I'm better off without that issue.


----------



## sjm9911

Its better removed, i was just busting chops. Look up winchester house if you dont know the story.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I got the reference.  But removing the shelf is speeding up the completion, one less major task to do.  Took about 10 minutes to take it off, imagine if I had been building a whole town up there.


----------



## Patrick1544

John, You’re moving right along. I just moved into another house and had to de-construct mine. It’s in the new basement waiting....how long???


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

More curved wood cut and did some joints tonight. I need to get it up on temporary supports (aka foam blocks) to join it to the "Y" in the back. A 10x10 piece of plywood would have been VERY handy, I could have made this all one piece. I might have had an issue getting it around the pole...  Once it's all sized, I'm going to do a little belt sanding on the sides to clean up some slight mismatches.


----------



## Lehigh74

Looks good. You do nice work.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Bob, as long as it holds up the track, I'm good. Still working out what the permanent supports will look like, I'm thinking maybe some faux concrete columns or the like. That comes after I get all this wood cut and sorted out.


----------



## Spence

It’s really starting to take shape. Are you going to be buss wiring for the DCS?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'll be doing the star wiring for DCS, I plan on having four power districts for everything. The main loop is around 140 feet long, it'll may be broken up into two channels. Once I have it wired, I'll try it on one channel and see if I have good DCS all the way around, as that would be most desireable. I figure that I won't be running more than two trains on the main loop at the same time, so 10 amps of power would probably be sufficient. Passenger cars all have LED lighting, so even with a couple of double-headed trains I would likely be fine. There are three other independent loops that can run without conflict with the main loop, I figured those would be using two TIU channels. I'd like to leave one channel for the yard, I'd rather not get into using two TIU's. If that doesn't work out, I have plenty of TIU's, so I'll just live with the two.


----------



## Spence

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'll be doing the star wiring for DCS, I plan on having four power districts for everything. The main loop is around 140 feet long, it'll may be broken up into two channels. Once I have it wired, I'll try it on one channel and see if I have good DCS all the way around, as that would be most desireable. I figure that I won't be running more than two trains on the main loop at the same time, so 10 amps of power would probably be sufficient. Passenger cars all have LED lighting, so even with a couple of double-headed trains I would likely be fine. There are three other independent loops that can run without conflict with the main loop, I figured those would be using two TIU channels. I'd like to leave one channel for the yard, I'd rather not get into using two TIU's. If that doesn't work out, I have plenty of TIU's, so I'll just live with the two.


Woops I meant to say “star”


----------



## jackpresley

Just skimmed through this. You did a lot of really nice work on top and the sides.

I'm curious what the max width is? From outside edge to inside/access hole edge?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The max table width on the "fat" end is around 4", and for the most part I have access from the outside and inside, so it's a fairly easy reach. I'll have some reaching to do in the back, couldn't really be helped as that's the shape of the room. On the end toward the workshop were the last pictures were posted, it's about 4 1/2 feet from the edge to the popup in the middle. Again, along the wall is a long reach, I'm going to be putting stuff there that I don't have to access with any regularity. 

The rise from the main table level is 7" total to the top level, and it computes out to be a 2.3% grade on the outside and a 2.4% grade on the inside, not too bad, and as good as I expected in the space I have.










This part of the elevated section is at it's design level for a height check.










I think this is one of the tallest cars, it's just over 5" from the railhead. I have 7/16" clearance, and I'm going to have to allow the 1/4" for the roadbed, so these will clear, but not by much!  OTOH, as long as they clear, I think I'm good.


----------



## Big Ed

It looks cleaner with your town platform gone.
It is a nice overall room you have, good to see it taking shape. 

You have a typo, max table width is 4" of the "Fat" you type, you meant 4' right?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

No, it's 4", I went to TT and shrunk the whole layout! 

OK, so I have a typo, it really is four feet. 

I had mixed feelings with the platform all along, but I kept telling myself it would be neat. Finally after my wife and several friends kept telling me I should lose it, I decided they were right after all. The good think is I will use the Mianne stuff that was there to do my yard when I get trains running on the main platform, so I didn't lose much.


----------



## Big Ed

Just didn't look right at 4". I know it was a typo.
You think you will be running before Christmas?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Hard to say, I have to change a bunch of switches, so it will depend on how fast I can get the new Ross switches. I think that's the pacing item.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I think this is one of the tallest cars, it's just over 5" from the railhead. I have 7/16" clearance, and I'm going to have to allow the 1/4" for the roadbed, so these will clear, but not by much!


Do you recall the recent video of the auto carrier accordions? But then again, you gents love recreating realism in your train operations


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it does clear...  In addition, I actually don't own any of the autoracks, my friend brought one over for a clearance test as that's the tallest car we could think of. The Wienermobile cruises right under with room to spare, I think that's my tallest unit at about 5" from the track. The autoracks are about 1/4" taller, if they fit, I think vertical clearance is sufficient. Now, I have to still consider all the horizontal clearance on curves for the Big Boy, Challenger, Y6B, etc.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> ... I have to still consider all the horizontal clearance on curves for the Big Boy, Challenger, Y6B, etc.


I suspect that will give you significantly more "agita" than planning the height - trestle placement etc. And you have to always remember to lower the boom on the crane car


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The curves are planned right up front to have lots of clearance, so it may not be as onerous as you might imagine. I'm using 6" track spacing and 3.5" from center rail clearance on curves. This should allow me plenty of clearance around the layout. I like the big stuff, so I'm trying to plan for running it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Moving along.  All the major pieces of the ramps and elevated sections are fitted, now I have to clean up some minor stuff on the edges and start working on the supports.


----------



## Millstonemike

Could be the lighting or the change in color but it looks like your the joint in the foreground has a dip ???


----------



## Big Ed

Nice and neat.
Do you have any bridges planned?
I see a few spots on the elevated section that could have handled a few.
Just wondering.

Do you even have any bridges? 
I know you have the trains.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Millstonemike said:


> Could be the lighting or the change in color but it looks like your the joint in the foreground has a dip ???


That piece is fitted, but it's not attached, just setting in place. The note there are no screws there yet. 

All of this has to come apart to lay the table level track that will be below the elevated section. Then that section goes together with TItebond III glue for a permanent solution. Right now I just want to get all the wood cut, trimmed, and fitted.



Big Ed said:


> Nice and neat.
> Do you have any bridges planned?
> I see a few spots on the elevated section that could have handled a few.
> Just wondering.
> 
> Do you even have any bridges? I know you have the trains.


I've been talking about bridges, I'd like to fit at least one in. I don't have anything that would work for my double-tracks, so anything I do will have to be purchased.


----------



## Big Ed

This would look nice, Rail King Hells Gate, double track.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I don't think it's wide enough. I have 6" track spacing, so outside to outside rail is a bit over 8". Since there are switches to move between the two loops on both sides, the track spacing is not really something easily changed.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Removed the top level temporarily to get some track laid on the main level, first loop of track is down. About 50 feet, and I also have positioned my switches on the liftgate and drilled some holes for wire drops. I have to pick these up now and solder tons of wires to them for the non-derailing, switching power based on position, etc.

I also did a quick connection of some power and ran a little switcher around the track. Interesting fun fact, new Gargraves flex track has lots of "smutz" on the rails and needs to be cleaned before things run well.


----------



## Big Ed

The "smutz" may be a protective coating to protect the track while waiting to be sold?
If so you think they would add a note when they sell them to clean them before running?

That track sure looks nice,  beats the tube track any day.


----------



## sjm9911

Looking good so far. Lots of switches! 
And GRJ the new avitar suits you


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm ordering more switches, I had no idea you could put so many on a layout this size!  Current count is 21 Ross switches, my bank account is going to catch on fire! 

So far the foam roadbed works pretty well, the wide areas will get trimmed when we're all done, no sense in jumping the gun.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I haven't updated lately, it's probably past time to bring it up to date. 

I got my latest order of switches in and started "nailing down" the track on the main level. I have about 75% of the main level track down, and I have power drops on maybe 30-40% of it. I did get all the switches on the lift-bridge properly fitted and secured. That allowed me to cut the track and allow the lift-bridge to operate, it's great not having to crawl under! Of course, when it was going so well, now I'm out of track, so I have another case on order! I also missed one switch, apparently I had the wrong one on the list, so that's on order as well. As soon as the drops are all in for the main level, I can put the second level deck back on and finish the two loops up there. I have yet to trim the roadbed, that will come when all the track is down and I'm sure nothing will move. I'm about 99% sure now, but there's no rush to do that. I've gone through way more Gargraves track pins and track screws than I could have imagined, had to order more of those as well!

Here's the narrower end of the layout, the two loops and my maintenance siding are down. Also, all the switching in the middle to select various routes is finished.











The curved track to the maintenance siding worked out pretty well, has a nice "flow" to it. 











My battery powered LC+ Camelback testing out the inside loop, still have to add the passing siding where the two switches are dangling in the breeze. Also, the switch that heads out toward the grade will go under and join with a three-track mini-yard behind the grade.











The lift-bridge is all configured, and all the power drops are in. Still have to wire the sea of switches, lots to be done!











At long last, I can open the lift-bridge again, all the track around it has been nailed down, aligned, and cut.


----------



## Dave NYC 1962

Looks like you have done this before! Very fancy work. What do you use for your fascia? It seems to bend really nicely for your curved areas.


----------



## Big Ed

Nice John,  can you walk under it without bending?
Did you motorize it?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, I never did anything like that benchwork before, mine has always been much less elaborate. I had a pro help with that part of the construction. If you start around here: PAGE 12, you'll see where the pro stepped in and we took off like a rocket!  The fascia is pretty interesting, it's a multi-step process to turn the square Mianne benchwork into what you see now. I would have never thought of some of the things we did, but having a master carpenter drop in for a few weeks made things move along much faster, not to mention the amazing finished product!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Big Ed said:


> Nice John,  can you walk under it without bending?
> Did you motorize it?


It goes up around 5'6 to the bumpers for my head, so I have to duck, but not bend over. Of course it's motorized Ed, what kind of piker to you think I am? 
Truthfully, you probably couldn't lift the section without power, it's 4' x 4' and with all the wood, Homasote, etc. I imagine it's pretty heavy!


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It goes up around 5'6 to the bumpers for my head, so I have to duck, but not bend over. Of course it's motorized Ed, what kind of piker to you think I am?
> Truthfully, you probably couldn't lift the section without power, it's 4' x 4' and with all the wood, Homasote, etc. I imagine it's pretty heavy!


OK, it's not like your going to have to get in there a lot, when your done.
Looks like you could have added another 4" easily enough?
You have to hookup a warning horn to it, like a real bridge.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Ed, it's the Mianne lift-bridge, and it's mechanism is fixed at how it works, so adding more height isn't in the cards. To add more height, you'd have to have longer slides, the existing ones are 38" long on a 40" leg, not exactly a lot of extra slack in the fit. I'm pretty sure I'm going to dispense with the warning horn, that much realism I don't need! 

I was going to have my control panel inside, but I'm reconsidering. I think I may actually have it on a cart and be able to have it face out or face in and just have a bunch of connectors to connect it to the layout. That would allow me to have it accessible for running in normal situations, but out of the line of fire if I have little fingers around.

Also, to reach a lot of the track, I'll be inside, so I may be inside there more than you might imagine, especially in the early days.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> ...I may actually have it on a cart and be able to have it face out or face in and just have a bunch of connectors to connect it to the layout. ...


I was using the bottom of an office chair. Most have a 10" by 12" plate (for the chair) with 4 holes at the corners to attach a control panel of your own design. And they have a small adjustment in height. And can tilt.

Anderson Power Pole connectors would work well here. If you not familiar, look them up on YouTube. Great for custom power arrangements. They mate together for as many conductors you need in any one connection.


----------



## Bull6791

I think everything is going and looking good so far 😀


----------



## Bull6791

John. I would really like to see your trains run on you layout or your not up to that point yet


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Ed, it's the Mianne lift-bridge, and it's mechanism is fixed at how it works, so adding more height isn't in the cards. To add more height, you'd have to have longer slides, the existing ones are 38" long on a 40" leg, not exactly a lot of extra slack in the fit. I'm pretty sure I'm going to dispense with the warning horn, that much realism I don't need!
> 
> I was going to have my control panel inside, but I'm reconsidering. I think I may actually have it on a cart and be able to have it face out or face in and just have a bunch of connectors to connect it to the layout. That would allow me to have it accessible for running in normal situations, but out of the line of fire if I have little fingers around.
> 
> Also, to reach a lot of the track, I'll be inside, so I may be inside there more than you might imagine, especially in the early days.


OK, then a red light underneath lit up when it's open? Blinking? 
Warn you to duck. 

Portable sounds nice, make it all quick fit connections, one for outside the layout too?

Looking good, the other access hole you can use your stool/chair, creeper, ? to wheel in under. ( I know you have something but can't remember what it is. )
You have the inside areas all planned out yet?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Millstonemike said:


> I was using the bottom of an office chair. Most have a 10" by 12" plate (for the chair) with 4 holes at the corners to attach a control panel of your own design. And they have a small adjustment in height. And can tilt.
> 
> Anderson Power Pole connectors would work well here. If you not familiar, look them up on YouTube. Great for custom power arrangements. They mate together for as many conductors you need in any one connection.


I'm thinking more along the lines of something on carpet glides, it'll only be going a few feet, and I don't want it rolling away. Also, the carpet tends to make office chars roll uneven.

I know all about Anderson Power Poles, we've been using them for years on our modular layout modules.


Bull6791 said:


> John. I would really like to see your trains run on you layout or your not up to that point yet


Not there yet, no power to the tracks. I have quite a bit of track to lay yet, then power drops, then wiring for power and the switches, and then... POWER!


Big Ed said:


> OK, then a red light underneath lit up when it's open? Blinking?
> Warn you to duck.
> 
> Portable sounds nice, make it all quick fit connections, one for outside the layout too?
> 
> Looking good, the other access hole you can use your stool/chair, creeper, ? to wheel in under. ( I know you have something but can't remember what it is. )
> You have the inside areas all planned out yet?


I haven't decided on anything for warning, but I'm not anticipating many people running under the bridge as a rule, and most have enough sense to duck. 

I'll probably put the connections in the middle of the bay to plug the cart in, that way I only need one set of connectors. The wires should be such that I can roll it back and forth and turn it around without unplugging it.

The inside areas are not all planned, I've been spit-balling with a few friends about what I might do in some of them. I'm more focused on getting the mainlines up, the more I work with the Gargraves, I realize it's pretty easy to graft a switch or two into a run to accommodate more sidings, no reason to try to plan everything at one time. My plate is full enough!


----------



## cole226

Looking good John. Happy for you to see your back laying track. Got to feel good.

Been looking over the past few pages of posts and thought I'd mention; back on post #600, your photo of tall car clearance under upper level. I'm sure you did, but want to mention, you did check clearance with the joint splice of plywood under there?
Can't tell from photo.
Carry on guy!

randy


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, the clearance is good with the 1/2" plywood brace under is about 1/4". That piece in the picture isn't properly supported at the correct height right now, it's drooping a bit. It's going to come off temporarily for me to finish the track drops on the main table level, then I'll put it back up with the proper supports.

I'm getting to where I can crawl up on the layout again, I had some sort of auto-immune issue where my legs were really sore and I couldn't kneel without considerable pain. However, we seem to be on top of that and I can get back to finishing all the main level power and control drops. It really sucks getting old and things on the body breaking.


----------



## cole226

Good to hear no clearance issue. Wanted to bring it to your attention.

Yes, these golden years ain't all they're cracked up to be. Glad your getting past your problem and back to railroading.🇺🇸


----------



## MichaelE

A wheeled cart is a great idea for the control system. It's nice being able to move around the room to different vantage points to watch the trains run.

In the old days of 24 track analog recording the engineer would have an auto-locator/transport control on a small wheeled cart or stand that could be moved around the control room. It eliminated a lot of getting up and sitting down for each take, playback, and record function.

I used a smaller model with the same functions for a 16 track DAT based studio room.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Things slowed down for the holidays, but I have started to make a little progress. I have all the main level track in place with drops for power dangling under the table. I also decided to use the CSM2 breakout boards for the DZ-2500 switch machines, so I'm waiting on twenty-odd boards to come in to get those underway. With the switches wired and the power drops in on the main level, I was able to put the second level deck back in place, it's just propped up right now, working on the permanent supports, trying to make them a bit more attractive than plain wood. Some changes in the exact track position have made the supports more "interesting" to do, there'll have to be some creative solutions in a couple of places.











I was mulling over the turntable idea I had, but the 32" one I was considering was a non-starter, no way I could possibly fit it in. However, just for fun, I found the Atlas 24" one, and it will actually fit in. Takes up a big chunk of the one end of the table, but I'll have my TT. Of course, this is changing a bit of the track I had already completed, there's always that issue that crops it's head.
I know it's a low-cost TT, but with the little motor drive fitted, it actually works better than I expected, the alignment is more consistent than I would have imagined coming from either direction. It's also very easy to install since it doesn't have the recessed pit that would have required me to tear up a bunch of the benchwork below and brace it for the hole for the pit. I think it'll be a fun addition to the layout, and it looks like I can park a bunch of my smaller steam and some diesels here, that will be nice. The power for the TT, whisker tracks, and TT control will all be controlled by manual switches and also through some Lionel SC-2's so I can command control it from the remote. Someone complained that the Atlas TT had trouble swinging a heavier locomotive, so I plopped my battery powered camelback on it. While the camelback wouldn't be that heavy, the three pounds of batteries add to it's "heft", so it's actually as heavy as any of my smaller steam and a lot heavier than most of the diesels. The TT had no issue at all swinging that. As many others have said, I took it out of the box and in about ten minutes the motor drive snapped the installed belt, that had been on there since manufacture and had obviously dried out a bunch. I'm going to round up the recommended Danko O-ring as a replacement for the remaining belt I have installed now, I have no idea how long it'll last. (Note the picture is still the hand crank).












Another brainstorm popped into my head in looking at my three hidden yard tracks, there was a possibility of adding about 33" to each of them. Can't have too much yard space, so I made a little lift-out panel and it got the track extensions. I needed it to lift out to be able to freely access the sump pump box under it in case (or rather when) I need to deal with any sump pump issues. I just used four dowels glued into the 3/4" panel to align it exactly to the main table surface, added track and power drops and over eight feet of new yard track from previously wasted space.


----------



## BigGRacing

Awesome bench and track work John, it’s coming along really well !


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks, I keep telling myself that I have to be somewhat patient and not try to quick tie in some power and run trains.  

I did throw a kink into the progress getting the TT, but I've always wanted to have one on my layout, and the previous layouts were never big enough. Also back then a TT was a _*King's Ransom*_, and I never could justify the cost! For $200, I figured to take a shot and see how it worked out. I just have to get it worked into the current track work now so I can actually access it. There's still a ton of wiring work under the table to do, so I'm a ways from home base yet. However, I can kinda' "visualize" trains running.


----------



## Big Ed

Looking good.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm working on the yard leads to the TT now, I have the track worked out and connected, and one side has roadbed and all tied down. I just have to put the roadbed under the other side and tie it down. I had to move the two switches on the service loop so that they'd line up correctly and I'd have at least 20" of straight track onto the TT bridge, that's all done as well. This gives me two entrances and/or exits from the TT, so I can drive out forward and go either direction on the service loop they're connected to. I'll add all the whisker tracks around the TT, and that part will be in the can. Of course I have to wire all the drops from the lead tracks, whisker tracks, the TT bridge, etc. as well, such fun!


----------



## Spence

Boy it’s really taking shape. Where is your control panel going to be?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm thinking I'll put the control panel on a cart that plugs in on the left side of the lift-bridge when you're facing it from the outside. It'll also be able to roll through under the layout and run it from the inside. That will give me flexibility in operating and not require a second control panel. I was originally planning it on the inside at that location, but I see the wisdom of having both options, so this seems to be the best way.

I'll also have control of most of the stuff from the TMCC/Legacy remotes using the pile of SC-2's I've accumulated over the years, and the DZ-2500 switch machines for remote control switching. I plan on having remote control of all sidings, the turntable and whisker track power, switches, etc. With all of that, I should have sufficient operational capability with the walk-around remotes.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I added a couple of touches to the TT, a wiring panel with all the connections terminated. I also have a AC-DC power supply for the drive motor, a couple of relays for directional control so I just have to supply a connection to ground to run in either direction. The switch at the bottom is just for local control when I'm working on it. that will be covered up with the skirting when I'm finished, if finished ever happens.  I still have to print the labels for the connections, it's on the list. 










While I was at it, I decided that free bumpers were the way to go, so I added these stops to the ends of the tracks. They don't consume a lot of the short track space, and just will stop the wheels from dropping off the end.


----------



## Lee Willis

That looks way too neat and professional to me. My projects when underway always look like a mess (because they are) until I spend a week cleaning up.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lee, I guess I'm too OCD to let too much of a mess accumulate. OTOH, from the pace of your projects, you are WAY faster than I am at completing a project!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Another little step forward. The upper deck is in place and fully secured, I just crawled out from under the layout screwing the supports down. I actually had my doubts how sturdy it would be with these little supports, but it's like a battleship! I didn't try standing in it, but I put at least 50-60 pounds of force down on it all around, and it doesn't move more then about 1/8" of an inch, it's pretty rigid!

Ready to finish the track on the upper level, that will complete the basic track laying and I can finish the wiring, another huge task!


----------



## wvgca

the track bumpers look good, and will serve the purpose ...
i don't think there is a 1:1 prototype for those bumpers, but they are easy enough to change if you feel the need to do so ..


----------



## Spence

Boy the layout is really looking good and I must say very very professionally built.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys, I don't know about _professionally_. 



wvgca said:


> the track bumpers look good, and will serve the purpose ...
> i don't think there is a 1:1 prototype for those bumpers, but they are easy enough to change if you feel the need to do so ..


Yep, they're just designed to be functional.


----------



## ErnestHouse

Do you use a particular plug for connecting the whips under the table? Solder? Crimp? What?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Wago 773-164 WALL-NUTS


----------



## Big Ed

You should have added a loop around the ceiling first. 😁 
A third tier? 
Monorail?

It is looking good,


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Ed. Actually, I did seriously consider a ceiling loop, but I'm glad I just forged ahead. This has been a ton of work already, and I'm not nearly done enough to even run trains! I'm back at it, wiring the turntable whisker track power to my TT connection panel, then I can work from there.


----------



## Old_Hobo

Nice looking basement! The layout makes it!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think the layout enhances the look of the basement for sure.  It'll really enhance it when there are trains running and scenery starting to pop up!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Still chipping away at laying track, closing in on the finish line. All but about 8-9 feet of track is down, I'm waiting on one Ross 201 switch for the top level, that's the only holdup. Once that comes in, I'll finish that loop, that will finish the track laying task. Next I'll start the long process of scooting around under the table wiring all the track and switches. 

My wiring chair will be getting more of a workout, it got broken in doing the turntable, really great to have a back rest when you're sitting down there wiring.










Most of the upper level track is in place. The inner loop is O72 Ross sectional track, the outer loop is O81, it's done in Gargraves flex track.










The missing switch is circled in green, so I'm waiting on placing the adjacent few feet of track until I position that switch. I have to cut several inches off the entry leg of the switches to keep them on the straight section. In order to get the track spacing desired, I had to add a stub between the two switches which increases the amount of straight track required.


----------



## Millstonemike

It's really starting to look like a monumental layout.

I see an office chair in the background on what appears to be manufactured wood flooring. Be warned that over a few years, the chair wheels will destroy it's surface (or mostly anything: tile, carpet, wood floor, even bare concrete). After I installed mfg.'ed wood floor in my basement office, I bought another two boxes of really cheap flooring (HD $0.49 sq ft) and created a "chair mat" for the chair's general work area. That was 2014. About 2018 the chair had beat it up that I replaced it. I used my cheap table/miter saw to bevel the boards on the outside edge's lest the edge chips if you happen to roll off with the chair.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, I suspect at some point the char might do the floor in. I haven't decided what to do about the floor, though I have to say I've been using it for two years and there isn't a mark on the floor, seems pretty rugged. It's Pergo flooring, FWIW.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Cruising along!  My missing switch came in, and the track is all completed!










At long last, a train is running around the main loop from start to finish! I had to use my battery powered Camelback as I don't have the power wired under the table yet. I'm also dragging the magnetic pickup car to gather up any stuff that fell between the tracks, it picked up a few pieces. The run, at least according to my track layout program, is around 140 feet of track in the main loop.






Next step is obviously all the under-table wiring, all the track power drops are dangling under there. Most of the switch connections are also stuffed through, but the ones on the elevated section need to be extended to make it under the table, next step coming up!


----------



## BigGRacing

Well done ! GunRunner, it looks perfect!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, probably not perfect, but I'm pretty pleased to have reached that major milestone.  When I get the switches powered and under remote control, I have to do some testing of all the routes to make sure all the switches are fully functional. Still miles to go before I sleep I'm afraid.


----------



## Bill Webb

Nice progress John. Everything appears to be very smooth.

Saw your track bumper. Perfect for what we need in the roundhouse as a bumper.


----------



## Spence

Great video. That’s a really nice run.


----------



## MichaelE

Great videooJohn. Love cab ride videos and the tour of the layout was great.


----------



## Andy57

I like that video also. Nice big layout.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys! It's slowly taking shape, I was pleased that at least a small locomotive made it all around without so much as a wobble, now I just have to test all the other loops. I do see a couple of switches where I need to tweak the switch machines to get cleaner operation, that should be easy.  I have a lot more experience with Gargraves Flex track now, that's for sure! 

On to the wiring...


Bill Webb said:


> Nice progress John. Everything appears to be very smooth.
> 
> Saw your track bumper. Perfect for what we need in the roundhouse as a bumper.


I did a "roll your own" on most of the turntable tracks, just a couple of left-over ties from the flex track. I also have some Atlas track bumpers, they are a perfect fit for Gargraves and Ross track, so that's a plus.


----------



## Big Ed

All right !  
At last we have smoke, well maybe not smoke but a train running.
Good thing it isn't smoking we wouldn't be able to see.
You need a couple Captain bar chairs for you guys to sit on while running.
Been a long time coming, Looking good.


----------



## Millstonemike

Big smile


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Big Ed said:


> All right !
> At last we have smoke, well maybe not smoke but a train running.
> Good thing it isn't smoking we wouldn't be able to see.
> You need a couple Captain bar chairs for you guys to sit on while running.
> Been a long time coming, Looking good.


It's not smoking because I turned that off so we could see!  I made the mistake of running one of these with smoke at the NJ-HR on the same locomotive, and the smoke was a distraction. I'll be sorting out the seating after all the wiring is taken care of. I think I'll have to have a landscape party or two to get some nice scenery in place, that's certainly not my strong suit. Technical and mechanical, I'm fine with, artistic stuff, I'm not quite so fine.


----------



## callmeIshmael2

Looking Fantastic, John. With so many people cheering you on, it must be at least a little overwhelming at times; at least whelming, lol. 
I'm still looking for the S gauge peeps I told you about quite a while ago. I have a daughter all ready to jump in and help me paint them, and she's better at fine detail than I, so hopefully soon!


----------



## Lee Willis

Cool video, and a beautiful, neatly constructed layout. And big, at 140 feet your loop is longer than my longest (135 feet, and I only have alittle over 300 feet in total - you look to have much much more!!


----------



## Stumpy

Thanks for the ride John!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks guys, looking forward to actually being able to run trains on a real layout. 


Lee Willis said:


> Cool video, and a beautiful, neatly constructed layout. And big, at 140 feet your loop is longer than my longest (135 feet, and I only have alittle over 300 feet in total - you look to have much much more!!


Five feet isn't exactly much, my layout program could make that big an error.  I think our track amounts are pretty close, I just checked what my layout program has for what I actually have down, it's 356 feet, that counts everything like the turntable whisker tracks, switches, etc. Once I add the 8-track yard, that will run up the total a bit, but that's in the future a few months, I need to get this part running first.


----------



## Andy57

8 track yard. Wow, I hope to see photo of that. How much real estate do you think that will take up? Feet X feet.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the yard only has around 12 feet of length, so I needed a lot of tracks to store a decent number of cars. I wish I had room for 30 feet or yard, that would be special!


----------



## Andy57

12 feet yard, wow. That would be special. I would still like to see photo after it is down. 12 feet is where my layout turns. I am going to walk off mumbling and daydreaming now.
12 foot yard, wow.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, a 12 foot yard isn't all that long for O-scale cars, it fills up quickly!  Here's my hidden 3-track yard, when I took the shelf out, I had this unused space, so I plopped the track down to give me more storage space, these are around 14 feet. The near end is a removable section to allow me access to the sump pump that's under it, just in case. I originally was going to stop at the edge of the benchwork, then I realized that I could have three more feet on each track just by putting a shelf there! A chunk of 3/4" plywood, some dowels to align it, and it just drops in place and the power drops plug in under the table.


----------



## Andy57

Thanks for posting photo. Wow, I am jealous.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Rolling on, I mounted my power panel and all the stuff on it, I have almost all the track power wiring done, and I'm moving on to the switch wiring. Since all the switches will be connected to the LCS CSM2 and of course the serial data for command control, each switch gets a home run back to the panel, and the double-slip switches with two switch machines get two home runs! 









Of course, I realized that I was going to need more real-estate for the power and control panel stuff, so I added a second panel.



















I have about half the CSM2 Breakout Boards for the DZ-2500 switch machines mounted, working on the other half, then I'll be running the CAT5 cable runs back to the control panel location.









Here's an example of some of the controls on the fascia, my maintenance track, lift-bridge controls, and my yard tracks all have controls. The yard and maintenance tracks even got pilot lights to tell me when they're energized. 























I'm determined, someday I'm actually going to run trains on this layout!


----------



## Spence

Those control panels look amazing John.


----------



## Lehigh74

I’m looking forward to a new GRJ thread with the same title as the one that LateStarter used a few months ago. “Finally! Trains are Running”


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Spence said:


> Those control panels look amazing John.


I especially like the "clean" look of the one on the left! 


Lehigh74 said:


> I’m looking forward to a new GRJ thread with the same title as the one that LateStarter used a few months ago. “Finally! Trains are Running”


Someday...🐦


----------



## cole226

Catching up on the thread. 
Looks great John. I'm tickled for you to see a train run.
I even waved back at ya in the vid.

Looks like we'll be seeing one of your beasts making a maiden voyage here pretty quick.
At least we have good layout building weather.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Still chipping away. Got all the bus runs onto the terminal strips, the long outlet strips came in and are mounted. I'm doing a radio control of the four power districts, this allows me to reset the transformers without going inside the lift-bridge. I can use my little remote. I also ran the front freight sidings over to the panel, that's one of the longer wires in the layout, had to go around the hole.  Still have to wrap up the wires a little neater coming down, but that's coming when I complete the wiring, more to come.

One more run to deal with, my three track hidden yard. Those three tracks will have relay control to energize the tracks individually to allow me to run just control wires to the actual controls and not have to pipe the power all around the layout. I'm still mulling over where to put the controls.


----------



## Millstonemike

Schematic?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Wise guy!  The good news is, the track wiring is done and all to the panel terminal blocks. I just have to wire the stuff on the panel, and I need to wire a control switch panel for the three track hidden yard tracks.


----------



## 93firebird

That all looks nice! Can I come over and play? Lol

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Sure, just have to wait until I have the switches working.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It has happened! I powered all the loops and have four engines running! MTH DCS and Lionel TMCC/Legacy and a LC+ Camelback all running. I am a happy camper.






I'm also pleased to report that the Perpetual Barking DCS Watchdog Generator works great! With that connected at the TIU, switching on a siding has the MTH DCS locomotives keeping their yap shut until I ask them to wake up!

I do believe it's a train layout now!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A wiring party last night, ran all the CAT5 cable from the 24 switch machine locations to the main power/control panel. All the CAT5 will be terminated in the left two punch-down blocks, the right hand one will accommodate the future freight yard switches and anything else that might get added. Then the serial data and the switch status gets wired to the CSM2 LCS boxes at the bottom, and power comes from a Z500 brick that I dropped voltage down to around 13 VAC to keep the DZ-2500C switch machines happy.

I have to connect the other end of these cables to all the CSM2 Breakout Boards at the switches, so more time under the layout. It's getting to be like a second home under there!










I'm really appreciating my wiring chair, the addition of back support when you're wiring under there is really key to being able to spend enough time to get the job done! I have to say, this was one of the better ideas I had to work under the layout. I have a new creeper in the attic storage, never unpacked it after coming up with the chair.


----------



## Lehigh74

Lookin good John, but those aren't trains. Those are just locomotives and a speeder. With that layout you can have a lot of action with four or five trains running at one time.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'll be getting out the rolling stock when I finish wiring the switches and get those working. With the DZ-2500C switch machines, if they don't have power, you don't move the points. So, I have them all pointing to I can run the four loops, but I can't get to any sidings.


----------



## Lehigh74

Didn't know that about DZ2500s. Glad I have DZ1000s because sometimes I am closer to the switch than I am to the switchboard.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm always closer to my remote.  Also, the DZ-2500 has a button on top to switch it as long as it has power. Once they're wired and working, this is a non-problem.


----------



## Madman

gunrunnerjohn said:


> A wiring party last night, ran all the CAT5 cable from the 24 switch machine locations to the main power/control panel. All the CAT5 will be terminated in the left two punch-down blocks, the right hand one will accommodate the future freight yard switches and anything else that might get added. Then the serial data and the switch status gets wired to the CSM2 LCS boxes at the bottom, and power comes from a Z500 brick that I dropped voltage down to around 13 VAC to keep the DZ-2500C switch machines happy.
> 
> I have to connect the other end of these cables to all the CSM2 Breakout Boards at the switches, so more time under the layout. It's getting to be like a second home under there!
> 
> View attachment 554426
> 
> 
> I'm really appreciating my wiring chair, the addition of back support when you're wiring under there is really key to being able to spend enough time to get the job done! I have to say, this was one of the better ideas I had to work under the layout. I have a new creeper in the attic storage, never unpacked it after coming up with the chair.
> 
> View attachment 554427


Hm, that looks like a better idea than a creeper. Even with my layout at 36", I can still sit up under it.


----------



## Firewood

Nicely done! You're a better man than I am - I went with 30" sitting-position layout height and above-board wiring. All conventional operation with old-school cab control too - even used rocker switches for the blocks....I may even get an 8-track stereo 😉


----------



## Madman

Firewood said:


> Nicely done! You're a better man than I am - I went with 30" sitting-position layout height and above-board wiring. All conventional operation with old-school cab control too - even used rocker switches for the blocks....I may even get an 8-track stereo 😉


We need pictures !.....


----------



## sjm9911

Congrats GRJ. Long time coming. You can see the finish line now


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Are you sure that's the finish line? I think it's a crease in my forehead from banging it on the benchwork beams!


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Are you sure that's the finish line? I think it's a crease in my forehead from banging it on the benchwork beams!


LOL.

Out of curiosity, what type of Cat 5 cables are you using?

Background ... When an office was being renovated next to one of ours, I pick up (read: pilfered) some long cat 5 cables thinking these cables are perfect for powering switches and accessories around the layout. The in-wall cable wires are solid and the ground wires on each cable pair are not insulted. The flexible patch cables wires are stranded and both wires on each pair insulated. I presume you have solid core since you using punch down blocks.

Others would benefit from these color coded 8-conductor cables. You can power a lot of accessories with just a few neat and tidy cables. At HD, 100' of 8-conductor, 24 gauge, solid core, fully insulated cable is just $15.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm using the solid wire CAT5E. I did use the patch cables for the link from the lift-bridge to the fixed portion of the layout, I needed the flexibility for that loop of wire. I'm splicing the patch cables into the solid wire CAT5E cable I am using for the rest of the runs. I'm only using four wires in each cable, so I have four spares in case of accidents.


----------



## Millstonemike

Tsk, Tsk  Could of used one of these as the interface between the lift bridge patch cable and the solid core run to the punch down blocks. But its all good info for other members needing wiring solutions


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it would be as much work to install four jacks for the four CAT5 cables as it would be to splice them. Since the bridge ain't going anywhere now, a permanent splice seems like the proper route. Truthfully, if I had enough of the patch cable stranded CAT5 on hand, I'd have just made those four cables home runs like all the others.

Progress last night, we got all the switch machines connected to the CAT5 cable, and half of the cables terminated at the punch-down blocks. Most of the initial wiring is now in place under the table, just have to do the stuff at the power/control panel. 

The one area left is to wire the turntable. I'm thinking of a small panel that may be under a trackside building with the manual controls to the turntable. All the controls will be is my 16 position rotary switch, a button to turn the selected whisker track on/off, and the on-off-on TT rotation direction switch. Those can be on a very compact little panel that can be hidden on the layout. The turntable will also have remote control using three SC-2 TMCC boxes.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Getting closer.  Got all the wires terminated in the punch-down block from the individual switch locations. Now I have to do a little wiring and add the terminal strips for the various functions, serial data, switch position, and switch power at my panel. Once those are all tied in, I should be able to program all the switches with TMCC addresses and finally have control of the switches! Then I need to get the turntable working under full power and command control...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Got all the switches running under TMCC control, and I can run trains. Also got my Watchdog generators installed on all the secondary tracks to keep any PS/2 or PS/3 engines quiet when power is switched. Things are taking shape and trains are running.
I have to wire my turntable controls and I'll have full control of the layout from the remote.


----------



## sjm9911

You need a brother p touch to orginize that power!


----------



## 93firebird

So tidy.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

sjm9911 said:


> You need a brother p touch to orginize that power!


I will be printing nice labels when I'm done adding to the panel, still a few things to do yet.


93firebird said:


> So tidy.


Well, it could be better, but I'm trying.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The new piece is the turntable is fully functional under TMCC control! I added three SC-2 controllers to switch each of the 16 whisker tracks and to control CW and CCW rotation of the turntable. After a short break to replace one of the SC-2's that had a couple of non-working relays, it's all working. 









I mounted the SC-2 boxes close to the TT wiring block to minimize the runs for all the track power leads.










I've also parked up my hidden yard tracks, that is much easier when you can manipulate the switches to provide access to them!


----------



## Traindiesel

John, the track work looks great! I don’t remember if you mentioned it, but did you position the track and then slide the roadbed under it? Or some other way?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Brian, I got the track curves formed, since most of it is flex track, then slid the roadbed under it. Next, I'd tack down the roadbed with a couple of little paneling nails to keep it where I wanted it and then drill the ties and screw the track down. Then I remove the paneling nails.


----------



## Traindiesel

Thanks John! I’ll try that for the roadbed on my temporary layout. I’m using styrofoam on top of the Mianne Benchwork. For the track I’ll use two sided carpet tape to attach to the roadbed.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I really like this foam roadbed, I found it much easier to deal with than cork. How are things out there in the land of fruits & nuts.


----------



## Traindiesel

Is that Flexbed you’re using? I’m thinking about using that on the eventual permanent layout. I’m using Woodland Scenics foam roadbed I salvaged from my layout back East.

Things out here are pretty good, sunshine taxes aside. Enjoying the great weather but we’re dealing with parental declining health issues. One of the reasons we moved out here. We love it here but I do miss a lot of things from back home.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I actually bought this stuff on eBay. The guy sends free samples, and when I compared this to FlexBed and Woodland Scenics foam roadbed, it was an easy choice. This is just as good, but much cheaper than either of the alternatives. He also has wider pieces for under switches, check it out. 

Flexible Foam Model Train Roadbed on eBay

Glad that California agrees with you, bummer about the health issues. Of course, we'll all be there one day, maybe sooner than we think.


----------



## Bryan Moran

I used the pink insulation for a roadbed. I run Fastrack.


----------



## Booly15

So the layout I purchased at the tag sale was 5/8 plywood with homeasote board on top, i'm thinking bout adding road bed, any thoughts?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Bryan Moran said:


> I used the pink insulation for a roadbed. I run Fastrack.


If you're talking about the pink construction foam, I'm guessing that's pretty noisy! I saw a layout with the same combo, 2" pink foam and Fastrack, it was LOUD!










Booly15 said:


> So the layout I purchased at the tag sale was 5/8 plywood with homeasote board on top, i'm thinking bout adding road bed, any thoughts?


I have 1/2" Baltic Birch mutli-ply and 1/2" Homasote, IMO it's an excellent combination. The Birch is very rigid, it doesn't bend or warp at all with 11 plies. The Homasote is great for the added sound deadening.


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If you're talking about the pink construction foam, I'm guessing that's pretty noisy! I saw a layout with the same combo, 2" pink foam and Fastrack, it was LOUD!
> View attachment 555504
> 
> I have 1/2" Baltic Birch mutli-ply and 1/2" Homasote, IMO it's an excellent combination. The Birch is very rigid, it doesn't bend or warp at all with 11 plies. The Homasote is great for the added sound deadening.


There's a speaker technology called flat panel. An exciter glued to a rigid sheet. Makes for speakers that hang on a wall like a painting. A lot of genst that build them use the pink foam for the panel.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That doesn't make the pink foam sound like a suitable candidate to attenuate sound!


----------



## Lee Willis

Well, I think the pink foam is not to blame. M experience, which was years long and intense in the amount of effort and range of solutions I tried, as I battle the level of unwanted noise, is that Fastrak is inherently noisy and that everything I could do was not enough - any and eery type of foam and sound absorbing underlay, sound absolriing apron around the benchwork, acoustic tile of the celing and walls, filling the underside of the plastic roadbed with foam itself, isolating the Fasktrack without using screws down into the benchwork wood, and everything else - it just isn't enough. It was still too noisy. I use Atlas solid-rail track now, and unwanted noise is just about zero.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I agree that Fastrack is the primary culprit, but the hard foam isn't helping.  I used Fastrack for years too, and it was really noisy on carpet and on plywood.


----------



## highvoltage

If Fastrack is noisy on carpet, I can imagine it being louder on anything else that is harder.


----------



## Bryan Moran

Yes John I use the thinner of the pink "hard" insulation for my roadbed. I have no litmus test other than Hobby Haven runs a train around slowly and it is noise free. I believe this choice came from MTF when I asked 7 years ago or so. As I am between layouts perhaps another option is warranted BUT I may consider both. I would think cork, as it has a shock absorptive nature - would reduce Fastrack noise the most. 

I don't want to hijack your thread here.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I've never used the term "Noise Free" and Fastrack in the same sentence.


----------



## Big Ed

Some thoughts.
I see room by your turn table for an engine house, you thinking about maybe adding one?
Single stall or maybe a double?

The one little whisker track by the inside work hole's corner can be made longer, just add a small piece of filler wood for that corner.
(The track with the little switcher locomotive in your picture.)


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The problem with adding an engine house is you need a straight shot into the bays, that takes additional track length.

I like the idea of adding extra length to the one track, I may do that. It would be easy to stick a corner piece in there and have a full length track!


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The problem with adding an engine house is you need a straight shot into the bays, that takes additional track length.
> 
> I like the idea of adding extra length to the one track, I may do that. It would be easy to stick a corner piece in there and have a full length track!


If you do extend that rail then an engine house could sit back in that corner?
Just a thought, even a single stall would compliment the turn table.

Looking again you could extend the track where the diesel is too.
Use a curve coming off the turn table instead of a straight.
I know the curves will work with tube track.

Like I said, I am just throwing out my thoughts looking at it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You need a straight section of at least 16-18 inches onto the TT or engines are not straight and hit the sides of the TT bridge. I made it 20 inches to be sure. Looking at the layout, I don't see any tracks that could reasonably be extended and still meet the restrictions of alignment in driving onto the TT bridge.

OTOH, cutting the corner seemed like a reak good idea to be able to park something larger on an additional track, pretty easy to do as well.


----------



## Chiefmcfuz

John. This is so impressive! Can't wait to see more as you progress! 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Matt_GNo27

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I've never used the term "Noise Free" and Fastrack in the same sentence.


😆


----------



## superwarp1

Has anyone ask you John, if you calculated cost difference between building the framework yourself vs. Mianne? Excluding the hassle of doing it yourself?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm sure that it cost more to use the Mianne, I didn't actually try to compute the difference. Since far more money went on top of the layout anyway, it's not a huge percentage of the total costs I would imagine.


Chiefmcfuz said:


> John. This is so impressive! Can't wait to see more as you progress!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I'm pretty stoked to see more progress as well.


----------



## Desperado

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You need a straight section of at least 16-18 inches onto the TT or engines are not straight and hit the sides of the TT bridge. I made it 20 inches to be sure. Looking at the layout, I don't see any tracks that could reasonably be extended and still meet the restrictions of alignment in driving onto the TT bridge.
> 
> OTOH, cutting the corner seemed like a reak good idea to be able to park something larger on an additional track, pretty easy to do as well.
> 
> View attachment 555837


How about something like this!


----------



## Desperado

Desperado said:


> How about something like this!
> View attachment 556696


Or the larger view - North Carolina Transportation Museum - Spencer, NC


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Plans change...
The yard is under construction, but it got changed up. Gone are the two 4-way switches and they were replaced with a bunch of #6 switches and a "Y" that allow a configuration with longer usable yard tracks. The switches will actually be pushed back to the main table or on the bridge section, the whole 12 foot yard will now be usable track space for parking/storing cars. Also, the yard went from 8 tracks to 9 tracks since there was room.

*The "final" (I hope) Freight Yard configuration.*








*Ripped up my recently laid yard leads and hacking at the brand new layout surface!







*



*The weapon of choice to cut Homasote without making a mess.*


*Time to do some damage, the Homasote in this section has to go!*



*Cleanup of the surface after removing the Homasote and screws.*



*The start of the extension of the main platform to mate with the upcoming bridge.*



*The appropriate curve cut and cleaning up the edge.


Final cut of the edge that will mate with the bridge.*




*We need support at the bridge end, that's the 2x4 that's sticking out. That will be built up further, to provide support for the bridge section.*



*The final shape of the main layout table extension. This will get the same fascia treatment as the rest of the table, coming soon to a layout near you.







*


----------



## Lehigh74

I don't see how getting rid of a four way switch saves room. With a four way, you go from one track to four in a length of 24 inches.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it does.  I couldn't fit the two four-ways on the bridge section, they're too long. Scattering the #6 switches like I did allows me to do the switching before arriving at the yard.

If you can come up with a configuration that's more compact with the 4-way switches, I'm all ears!


----------



## MichaelE

Nice carpentry work John. Looks good.


----------



## Spence

Looks good. What kind of bridge is going in there?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

MichaelE said:


> Nice carpentry work John. Looks good.


I must confess, the carpentry expertise is provided by Tom, he's a magician with wood. 


Spence said:


> Looks good. What kind of bridge is going in there?


Given the span, it's probably going to be made into a low girder bridge with the decorative panels. I think any tall bridge structure there would make it very unwieldy.


----------



## Lehigh74

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, it does.  I couldn't fit the two four-ways on the bridge section, they're too long. Scattering the #6 switches like I did allows me to do the switching before arriving at the yard.
> 
> If you can come up with a configuration that's more compact with the 4-way switches, I'm all ears!


When I added my staging area, I seem to recall that I had to go with a four way because going with individual switches would take up too much length. That’s why it surprised me that you had the opposite experience. I couldn’t tell from the track sketch that the bridge section was less than 24” wide.

It’s a moot point now since you are already into your mods, but wouldn’t a 11 degree Y (14.5” long) and the 4 ways (24.5” long) fit in between the existing switch and the bridge?

Here is a shot of my 4 way going through a 12.5 inch wide opening.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The design of the bridge evolved a bunch, and I am actually going to revisit the idea of using the two four-way switches instead of what I have As long as I can fit everything on the bridge or leading up to the bridge, I'll have the full yard capacity. Of course, with nine tracks, I still need at least one more switch. I started out with eight tracks, but then I figured one more would fit, so why not?

The yard is 34" wide, the track spacing is 3.5" center-to-center.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

More work today, made some nice progress.
Dropped the wood on and this is the process for creating the curved edges.


After the tracing, fire up the jigsaw and cut to our edge design.


This is a very valuable piece of real estate, a signed Tom Tee layout!










Tom insisted that we add a little bump-out "just in case" I decide to stick an O72 curve to yet more benchwork and who knows what!










I figured I'd better disown the idea, my better half might not be amused.

















We trace all the cross-members from below, then turn over the sheets and drill small holes. This allows us to map out on the top where the beams are to nail down the top.


Next step is to route the Homasote edge after applying it, getting ready for the support blocks and fascia to be added.


All cleaned up, I have to add a couple hundred screws and then apply the filler to create a smooth surface.




This is the lip that the removable bridge will rest on, before fitting the bridge, we'll add the J-channel to protect the edge of the Homasote so it won't get dog eared.


----------



## Lehigh74

I agree with Tom on the bump out. It will come in handy when you decide to run the trains outside.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I can see the HOA reaction to my lawn layout!


----------



## Lee Willis

Beautiful benchwork, GRJ. Nice looking. 

A model train layout is never done and always being revised, even before being done . . .


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Lee, it's coming along. I agree, it'll never be finished, at least in my lifetime. However, I'm hoping that after the yard is finished, I can at least start doing some scenery.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Baby steps forward. Screwed the Homasote down and then filled the holes and seams with finishing compound. Let it all dry, and then sanded it all flat. I'm almost ready to put a coat of paint on it. First, I have to cut the groove for the J-Channel at the bridge end, then I'll paint the whole surface the same drab brown I did the main benchwork with. 
















Changed up the freight yard switch matrix. Now that I have a wider bridge, it was practical to use the 4-way switches that I already have, so I just need to pick up one #6 RH switch and I'm all set.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Putting the support blocks on for the fascia. These are all secured with PL3 adhesive, I zap a couple of brads into them just to hold them until I clamp them. I obviously need more clamps, I ran out. But, if I keep all the tools like that in quantity, I'd be in the poorhouse!


----------



## Big Ed

Put the clamps up for sale here when your done? 
You must include an asking price, you can add OBO.


----------



## Stumpy

Man, those are some of the original Quik-Grip clamps. I think I have one left.

Good lookin' benchwork.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Those are Tom's clamps, I only have a handful of that style. However, when we get to putting the second finish layer of fascia on, I'm totally covered, I think I have around 80 spring clamps! 

The spring clamps are the ones I should have a sale on.


----------



## Lehigh74

Keep the clamps. You can never have enough clamps.


----------



## Spence

Looking real good John.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lehigh74 said:


> Keep the clamps. You can never have enough clamps.


You're probably right.


----------



## Patrick1544

Nice carpentry, John. Really gonna be a nice yard.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks, guys.  It got 10% nicer, I figured out how to stick and extra track in and still stay at my maximum width!  I get more than 120 feet of usable yard tracks, something I was very short on. Still not as much as I'd like, but it'll sure help a bunch! I just need to pick up the two #6 RH switches and I'm all set.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The "final" mod to the tracks for the yard? I should know better than to say "final". 
I added a couple of escape switches to some of the yard tracks. These allow you to drive in with a load of cars and drop them off and then back out the "escape" track. Obviously, it's best if the escape track isn't already occupied! 









The Ross #202 Yard Crossover isn't actually in my layout program, so I just cobbled it up with a pair of #4 switches for the layout plan.


----------



## pennwest

John, I see your escape crossovers are on two of the shorter tracks. Personally, I would located them on the longest yard tracks to allow for a longer train. The top 4 tracks in the diagram fit the bill.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I actually picked those tracks as they had a longer lead. Remember, when I disconnect from the cars on the track and use the escape path, I leave about three feet at the end of that yard track. With the tracks I picked, I can then run the switcher back up to the tail end of the cars and push them down to the end of the yard track. Also, that selection isn't chiseled in stone, and if I like how it works out, I may add several more escape switch pairs. Also, the "final" configuration of the switching isn't set in stone either, when I finish the benchwork and have the switches all in hand, I may find that I can leave a bit more room on the left of the switches for greater capacity. My preliminary layout was really to make sure I could actually create a workable plan to access all the yard tracks and keep at least O72 or larger curves in the process. The escape switches don't change the geometry of the yard tracks at all, so that configuration can be freely moved to any two adjacent tracks without changing anything else.

I know that at least one of the 4-way switches will have to be on the bridge section. There's no way both 4-way's could be pushed back to the main platform, just not enough room. However, I am thinking that it's likely when I'm actually placing the two #6 switches that I might be able to push those back to the main platform and leave longer tracks after the switches.


----------



## Big Ed

You have a nice spot for another shelf over the yard?
Or some pictures?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

My plan is more shelves, I have scads of stuff that I want to get out from under the layout and up on the wall. The opposite wall is 18' feet long, and my plan is floor to ceiling shelves over there as well.


----------



## Traindiesel

Wonderful work, John. You must be excited with every accomplishment and milestone. Thanks so much for documenting your progress!

I may have missed it, but I’d like some info on your DCS Watchdog generators. What are they? How are they wired between track and TIU? And where are they available?
Thank you always for your help!


----------



## Jetguy

Traindiesel said:


> Wonderful work, John. You must be excited with every accomplishment and milestone. Thanks so much for documenting your progress!
> 
> I may have missed it, but I’d like some info on your DCS Watchdog generators. What are they? How are they wired between track and TIU? And where are they available?
> Thank you always for your help!


Of course it's best to get his answer, but I learn by trying to answer questions so I'll take a shot.
First, a link O Scale - FS: DCS-RC Watchdog Timer Boards

My explanation of what is going on and why.......
The TIU only generates the watchdog signal when a channel is first powered up. So if you just put a toggle switch say on a siding to cut power and thus signal from the *output side* of the TIU to a siding, then there is a highly likely chance when you turn on that switch, the MTH DCS capable (PS2, PS3) engine will not see a watchdog signal and may startup in conventional mode. Because of this, it means one way of solving the issue is to use a tiu channel dedicated for a siding, and the switch is the power input to the TIU and that channel to force a watchdog transmit each time it's turned on. But you quickly run out of channels and that is expensive for more TIUs and channels.

So, the alternative to buying more TIUs and using channels just for sidings is, the cheaper and lowest form of DCS based control is the DCS Remote Commander https://mthtrains.com/50-1033. These came with a lot of starter sets and for a long time could be found used because people were not using them since they are the lowest capability form of DCS control. Basically, they were cheap, plentiful, not being used, and could easily and cheaply be repurposed.








You have to ensure you get that one and not the older infrared remote control that does not have DCS capability.
This has the built in realtrax lockon and is grey not black.









Anyway, the point is, the DCS Remote Commander is basically a microprocessor and DCS transmitter circuit all inside that tiny little box. It works like the TIU in that the device sends out the watchdog signal when first powered on. The trick is, they also left an internal set of connection points to the microprocessor so a simple timer reset circuit can keep resetting it and causing it over and over to send out the watchdog signal without needing to keep being powered off and then on again. Hence the name perpetually barking watchdog. The "kit" is simply that little circuit board that is soldered to the internal point of the DCS Remote Commander to cause it to be a perpetually barking watchdog.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Traindiesel said:


> Wonderful work, John. You must be excited with every accomplishment and milestone. Thanks so much for documenting your progress!


Thanks Brian. It is a hoot to actually be able to run trains on my own track again!  I'm looking forward to having the freight yard, that will be a nice addition. I'm waiting on the Ross switch order, but hopefully today I'll make some progress on the bridge.


Traindiesel said:


> I may have missed it, but I’d like some info on your DCS Watchdog generators. What are they? How are they wired between track and TIU? And where are they available?
> Thank you always for your help!


I see the previous post, so I'll just add the little blurb that comes with the WD board. It's a simple scheme, I just reset the DCS-RC every second and force it to continually generate a WD signal. 










I connect the WD generators directly to the output of my TIU channels, see graphic below. The DCS-RC boxes are at the top, and the three units connect to the TIU output feeds of everything but my mainline loop.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

More progress on the freight yard, got the bridge section cut, now you can see how the whole thing will come together. Obviously, more work to do, but I'm getting excited! 


A couple of places have very sharp curves in the fascia, those had to be water treated to get the tight bends. After a couple of days drying, the fascia should take the new set and I'll glue it all on. Right now it's tacked or clamped to keep the shape.


----------



## Traindiesel

Jetguy and John, thank you both for the clear explanation. It’s really cool and I may be looking into these when I get to adding sidings.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

You can't have enough sidings Brian. I'm looking into adding three more on top of the three in the rear, the "upper deck" will be hinged so I can get to the tracks under it if necessary. 

If' you're thinking of using a couple of the WD Generators, I suggest you start looking now for the DCS Remote Commander boxes, they're in short supply, lots of people looking for them to do the WD Generators. They really shot up in price on eBay since a bunch of people were buying them. Several people got my boards made and sold them on OGR, so I don't know how many of the WD generators were created. I know I shipped out at leastt 30 assembled and kit version WD Generator boards, and I know that another OGR guy also got a bunch of boards made and sold them.

The WD board will always be available, even if you have to build one. They're simple with only a few components, so the DCS-RC box is the thing you need to source when you can.


----------



## Traindiesel

Thanks John. I’ll have to figure out how many I’ll need for now and the future. I’m not surprised the RC boxes are in short supply. Maybe the new MTH DCS entity will create something similar if they ever get off the ground.


----------



## Big Ed

Your almost ready to tackle some scenery. 
Put in a background in on the yard wall, an industrial scene?

Paint one on......or chalk it in?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Traindiesel said:


> Thanks John. I’ll have to figure out how many I’ll need for now and the future. I’m not surprised the RC boxes are in short supply. Maybe the new MTH DCS entity will create something similar if they ever get off the ground.


I wouldn't hold your breath for someone to come up with this. It would actually be trivial for them to do this in software for the TIU, either the old one or the new one, but I'll bet that doesn't happen.


Big Ed said:


> Your almost ready to tackle some scenery.
> Put in a background in on the yard wall, an industrial scene?
> 
> Paint one on......or chalk it in?


I think above the yard will be more shelves.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Base layer of fascia on, just have to wait for the PL3 to set and I can fill, sand, and paint.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

One more step on a long journey, filled the remaining holes, sanded everything flat, masked off the wall and my protective J-channel for the bridge. Finally I slapped a coat of primer on the bare wood.


----------



## Millstonemike

Superb construction!

Have you thought about backdrops? IIRC, scenery was your strong point ... as with me. When I was building my permanent layout, I searched for various photos I could have printed as back drops - to jumpstart the scenery effort.

Attached are full files for two pics (seen below). They show the resolution at full size (open w/ MS-Paint). The first is a city view of Pittsburg. Actual dimensions are 128" W x 28" H. The second is an industrial backdrop for the yard. 100" W x 27" H. There's many others on the net. You could have such pics printed at Staples, et., al. Not cheap but you have a small fortune invested already 

Something to ponder ...

EDIT: It seems both full size images are two large to attached.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

There won't be much scenery on the yard, I'm going to have display shelves above it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Another step forward. Got the surfaces painted and the second layer of fascia on the main table extension. I have to take a trip to Lowes and get more Loctite PL3 adhesive to do the freight yard side. I also have a tight bend on the freight yard, so I'll have to soak that one for a spell to get the bend in.


----------



## Lehigh74

That's going to look sharp when you get the tracks in. You going to use the foam roadbed or will you skip that since it's a yard?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

For the curious, this is the process of bending the fascia on the tight bends. I soaked the end of this in hot water for around five minutes, then it folded right around the point. I'll leave it to dry, and I'm going to have a fan blowing on it to hurry the process. Then I'll remove the formed piece and glue and clamp it in place permanently.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lehigh74 said:


> That's going to look sharp when you get the tracks in. You going to use the foam roadbed or will you skip that since it's a yard?


I haven't quite decided, but if I skip the roadbed, I'll have to arrange a transition on the main platform to match the heights. I'm leaning to skipping the roadbed, noise won't be a problem and yards typically don't have roadbed.


----------



## Lehigh74

Transition shouldn’t be a problem. Especially if you do it near the existing switch near the main loop. Wood shims will do it. They come in various lengths. The short ones might be too steep, but the 15” long ones like this would probably work fine.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I have a similar idea in mind, but a more gradual slope. I have about 2 feet to transition the 1/4", so that's only a 1% grade.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Last of the fascia is glued and clamped, I even have leftover clamps. 

All that's left is to finish the bridge section, have to mate up it's fascia with the benchwork, install the alignment pins, and add a stiffening structure to the underside.


















Here's the whole addition, the main table extension, the bridge, and the freight yard.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The main benchwork being done, I got to looking at my proposed yard track spacing of 3.5". OOPS! The last track hangs over the edge over half an inch at the end! That will never do! I cut my spacing blocks down 1/10" to make the track spacing 3.4" and tried again. Now the tracks all fit on the bench, and the spacing between the two locomotives in adjacent tracks is 3/4", looks good enough for me!


----------



## AMCDave

You are making good progress. 
BTW: thanks for all the help you gave on the *O*ther* G*uys *R*ead forum. I am no longer there, not my choice. At least you and a few others are here! Thanks


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think the long pole in the tent now is probably the Ross switches I'm still waiting on. When I get those, I'll be ready to forge ahead and complete the yard.


----------



## AMCDave

Are they having supply issue too??? I only have half a dozen Ross but bought them 5 years ago. 
Real car resto parts are all backordered too!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, I just talked to Steve at Ross a few days ago, they're running about 2 weeks behind, not bad at all. I expect by the time I get back from the shore next week that I should have the switches. I suspect that Steve has all the materials he need in hand to build switches. There is a shortage of the Z-Stuff switch machines, so it's good that I don't need any of those. 

I have the 4-way yard switches, but I need the two #6 switches and the two yard switches. I also ordered Caboose Ind. Ground Throws for all of these switches. I'm going to handle them manually since they're right in front and I'll be attending to the yard anyway. I just don't feel like wiring a dozen more switch machines and fitting them into the overall scheme of things.


----------



## Big Ed

AMCDave said:


> You are making good progress.
> BTW: thanks for all the help you gave on the *O*ther* G*uys *R*ead forum. I am no longer there, not my choice. At least you and a few others are here! Thanks


OGR? 😬 
There are a lot here who are very fond of OGR.


----------



## Big Ed

Model train lift,
Put up this instead of a shelf, drive them on and off and you still have most of the yard for the trains.
This must be HO.

Open in a new tab, right click



__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/351914158365427403/


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I've seen several of the model train lifts, cool idea but a lot of engineering involved!


----------



## AMCDave

The few Ross I have prove they are worth the wait. 2 - 3 weeks is nothing. I have car parts on order from April!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I waited a couple of months for my big orders of Ross switches, so a couple of weeks is no big deal.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Cut the fascia for the bridge section, but I think I have to wait until I come back from vacation for much more progress, soon!


----------



## Firewood

Great progress, John. 👍👍 I must kick my own butt and make progress with my layout......now that I can actually reach it. (The kid moved house!)
Dave


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it's never fast enough, I would like to get this section finished, but everyone wants to go to the beach.  I did get a notification from Ross that my switch order was charged, he doesn't do that until they're getting ready to ship, so that's a good sign!


----------



## Millstonemike

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, it's never fast enough, I would like to get this section finished, but everyone wants to go to the beach.  I did get a notification from Ross that my switch order was charged, he doesn't do that until they're getting ready to ship, so that's a good sign!


Hopefully your vacation doesn't start until Henry has passed the East coast. Due to hit central Jersey later Sat through Sunday.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We're enjoying Henry right now.


----------



## Krieglok

I only look here once in a while and the progress is amazing. So much time and effort for a good solid base! It will payoff in the long run.

The curved edges on the bench work flow nicely. A good scenic element is to keep tracks a few inches away from the edges. It also gives a safety zone in case of a derailment or accidentally knocking a train off the tracks.

Great work. I am envious!

Tom


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Thanks Tom, I just hope I live long enough to "complete" it.


----------



## Krieglok

I hope I live long enough to start one!

Tom


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, I guess I'm farther along in that case


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Hinges, locating pins, and support structure added to my freight yard access bridge. After the adhesive dries, I will add the front fascia, fill all the screw heads, etc. and paint it. I'll finally be ready to start laying track on the yard for real!









Yes, my consulting carpenter was on the scene, who knows what I would have ended up with if that was not the case!


----------



## wvgca

good to see the progress there


----------



## Lehigh74

Love the lightening holes.


----------



## Jetguy

Lehigh74 said:


> Love the lightening holes.


Those are "speed holes" , like I put into the moving aluminum gantry of my custom 3D printer designs.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Jetguy said:


> Those are "speed holes" , like I put into the moving aluminum gantry of my custom 3D printer designs.


Well, in this case, they're actually for making the section a little lighter, they're not increasing any speed.


----------



## Big Ed

Are the hinges going to stick upwards like shown here on the finished section?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Big Ed said:


> Are the hinges going to stick upwards like shown here on the finished section?


Yep, they must be above the railhead to allow the bridge to swing up without smashing the rails. They'll get some shubbery in the future to hide the hinges.


----------



## Big Ed

If you had made it so that it drops down instead of raising up you could have hidden the hinges.
And eliminate the need for the wood with the holes, that piece won't carry any weight.
But...................it is your RR.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

If it drops down, you still have to lift it into place it still weighs the same. Also, with the current construction, weight is not an issue at all. For a drop-down, the problem with the rails mating just gets transferred to the opposite end of the bridge. Alignment is harder with a drop-down as well, for a lift-up, gravity is all you need to hold it in place on the locating pins. With a drop-down, you need to have secure latches to hold it up, another thing to tinker with.

Different strokes for different folks Ed, my experience with both styles has been the lift-up design works better for me with less issues.


----------



## Big Ed

OK, I like the electric up/down one the best.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I did consider the linear actuator I have somewhere here, but it's a lot slower than just lifting the bridge. One issue is I'll have to come up with a "stop" to limit travel when it opens, the linear actuator would not have that issue.

Note that my power liftbridge is one that raises up, and again gravity is all I need to keep it seated when down.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I did consider the linear actuator I have somewhere here, but it's a lot slower than just lifting the bridge. One issue is I'll have to come up with a "stop" to limit travel when it opens, the linear actuator would not have that issue.
> 
> Note that my power liftbridge is one that raises up, and again gravity is all I need to keep it seated when down.


Yeah, I like that one. 
I have been doing chores thinking about what I would use to hide the hinges if it were mine.
Whatever is used it has to be flexible, like a big piece of lichen. That wouldn't look nice.
I have another ideal, some kind of lights, yard lights or something. 
Just make the wire long enough so they can be picked up and put aside when the board is up. 
Or a plugged in light, just unplug it and pickup the light.
It is a yard back there, or will be. 
Light it up & cover the hinges. 
OK, back to the chores, still thinking.


----------



## Lehigh74

gunrunnerjohn said:


> One issue is I'll have to come up with a "stop" to limit travel when it opens.


Looking at the track plan, the stop will need to fit in behind one of the hinges. I’m thinking a 2X4 dressed up to look like the vestiges of a brick or concrete structure and held from below by screws.


----------



## Jetguy

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Yep, they must be above the railhead to allow the bridge to swing up without smashing the rails. They'll get some shubbery in the future to hide the hinges.


Sorry, couldn't stop myself. You win the forum today for using shrubbery in a post in a semi serious meaning.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lehigh74 said:


> Looking at the track plan, the stop will need to fit in behind one of the hinges. I’m thinking a 2X4 dressed up to look like the vestiges of a brick or concrete structure and held from below by screws.


I'm actually thinking of a cable or small chain that limits the travel of the bridge just past vertical, so it would just stop it like a screen door.


Big Ed said:


> I have been doing chores thinking about what I would use to hide the hinges if it were mine.


I haven't come up with anything yet, so I'll continue on laying track until an idea presents itself.


----------



## Millstonemike

If the the bridge opened to the left, you could put a stop on the wall. Hindsight


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That ship has sailed, and since the bridge actually "hooks" toward the back, it wouldn't work anyway, it would hit the corner far before it was vertical. The layout was in before this yard possibility, so I didn't have a thought about the way the yard would link up.

I'm thinking of something that just projects out from the bridge or the layout surface that "catches" it before it comes together. I'm sure I can come up with something...


----------



## Millstonemike

My other thought ... a loose, pivoting leg in the inside edge of the bridge. Lift the bridge past vertical and it swings out ready the plant somewhere level with the platform. In the absence of a better design, it could be a quick and simple temporary solution.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's a thought, but I wouldn't want the end of the leg landing where I don't want it.  As you can see, the bridge will bend all the way to the main platform surface. If I have a projection that's a couple inches high on either the platform or the bridge, it'll stop before the tracks come together, should work out if it's positioned correctly.


----------



## Millstonemike

Perhaps a tower or other structure as scenery on the platform specifically built (i.e., rugged) as the stop.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's my plan, but there is a lot of track over there. I'll have to figure something between the tracks that doesn't hit anything on the bridge or the platform. There must be some spot of real estate that mates up between the two.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

*The bridge is done, ready to start laying track! *


----------



## wvgca

looks good !


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Decided it was time to screw down some track, so here's about 100 feet of track set in place, more to come.










Time to see how the hard part is going to go. I have all the switches I'm using and shuffling them around to see exactly where they will be placed. I use the O72 sectional curves to judge if I'm making any curves too tight, everything should be O72 or larger. The actual track will probably all be flex track.










It's getting closer, I may yet have a freight yard to park some cars in!


----------



## highvoltage

What's the little bump-out at the end of the freight yard for?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it's Tom's wet dream, he's trying to convince me to expand with a switch there and add an engine facility. I'm resisting so far... 😂


----------



## Millstonemike

A crafted wood stop to blend with the fascia.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Got all the track laid on the main layout platform, and all the near bridge links added. Four sidings are complete, and I have to complete the remaining six. I can see it all now, dozens of cars with a place to park!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

And the track is done! All laid, screwed down, and cut at the bridge opening. All the paths to the yard pass the roll test with a freight car, no issues at all. Next I'll install all the ground throws on the switches and then on to wiring the power to the yard.


----------



## Lee Willis

Mu goodness!! That is spectacular. Really - perfect!!!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Enough parking for a lot of cars!  I just have to get some power to it...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

WOW, that was quick! Filled it up already! 😂


----------



## Yellowstone Special

gunrunnerjohn said:


> WOW, that was quick! Filled it up already! 😂
> 
> View attachment 566566


----------



## Krieglok

Vern! Glad to see you back!

Tom


----------



## Yellowstone Special

Not that anyone needs to know, or would even care. But I used to frequent this forum quite a bit, but my interests have changed to music. Now I play pedal steel guitar with a small group that plays Country and Hawaiian music. We love it! 

Anyway, I check in on forums once in awhile and when I left this one, GRJ was just getting started on his new layout at his new digs. I thought for sure it would be up and running long before now. So, what's the problem GRJ? It's been well over a year! Geez.


----------



## Yellowstone Special

Krieglok said:


> Vern! Glad to see you back!
> 
> Tom


Thanks Tom. I guess I'm just dumbfounded why gunrunner's layout isn't up and running by now.


----------



## Krieglok

Yellowstone Special said:


> Thanks Tom. I guess I'm just dumbfounded why gunrunner's layout isn't up and running by now.


Heh…he spends all his time online helping people fix their locomotives! 😉

Tom


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yellowstone Special said:


> Thanks Tom. I guess I'm just dumbfounded why gunrunner's layout isn't up and running by now.


Define up and running? Track is all laid, wiring is all done, and trains are running. If you're thinking that it should all be landscaped, that's different. I know people that have had layouts for twenty years and they're not done landscaping. 

The freight yard was an expansion of the layout so I had more space for car storage and access.

FWIW, my older brother was a steel guitar player for many years, he even made his last pedal steel guitar, quite an accomplishment.


----------



## Yellowstone Special

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Define up and running? Track is all laid, wiring is all done, and trains are running. If you're thinking that it should all be landscaped, that's different. I know people that have had layouts for twenty years and they're not done landscaping.
> 
> The freight yard was an expansion of the layout so I had more space for car storage and access.
> 
> FWIW, my older brother was a steel guitar player for many years, he even made his last pedal steel guitar, quite an accomplishment.


Hmm. Well, what's a layout without at least a little landscaping? Maybe I didn't see your whole layout. But still.

For your brother to make his own steel guitar IS quite an accomplishment. I'm fortunate to have one of only 10 Fender PS210 pedal steel guitars made, so I go with that. It sat in my closet for years after I'd moved from Hawaii to the mainland. I'm glad to have resurrected it and enjoy playing again. 😀


----------



## Krieglok

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Define up and running? Track is all laid, wiring is all done, and trains are running. If you're thinking that it should all be landscaped, that's different. I know people that have had layouts for twenty years and they're not done landscaping.
> 
> The freight yard was an expansion of the layout so I had more space for car storage and access.
> 
> FWIW, my older brother was a steel guitar player for many years, he even made his last pedal steel guitar, quite an accomplishment.


Was the guitar Proto3 or Legacy?….😉

Tom


----------



## Yellowstone Special

Krieglok said:


> Was the guitar Proto3 or Legacy?….😉
> 
> Tom


😂 Good one, Tom. Legacy, of course! Actually, if Leo Fender would have developed and marketed the PS210 further, it would have had quite a legacy.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A layout without landscaping is under construction, they all are in that state at some point. I'm truly sorry that the state of my layout offends your sensibilities.


----------



## Yellowstone Special

gunrunnerjohn said:


> A layout without landscaping is under construction, they all are in that state at some point. I'm truly sorry that the state of my layout offends your sensibilities.


Yes, but for nearly 2 years? And who said I had sensibilities? 😉


----------



## Big Ed

Yellowstone Special said:


> Yes, but for nearly 2 years? And who said I had sensibilities? 😉


Hate to tell you but his layout has been in the planning since 2012 or so. I been waiting since then. 
Now, Now, leave John alone. He is a very busy man. 
And you can see that a lot of work has been done. 
With a whole lot more to be done.


----------



## Chaostrain

Big Ed said:


> Hate to tell you but his layout has been in the planning since 2012 or so. I been waiting since then.
> Now, Now, leave John alone. He is a very busy man.
> And you can see that a lot of work has been done.
> With a whole lot more to be done.


Yes, his babysitting job (MTF administrator) keeps him quite busy. Be happy with and enjoy his progress. I am!


----------



## Big Ed

Chaostrain said:


> Yes, his babysitting job (MTF administrator) keeps him quite busy. Be happy with and enjoy his progress. I am!


Yes, every once and a while you toss him a thread to lock and he is happy.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Big Ed said:


> Yes, every once and a while you toss him a thread to lock and he is happy.


Now where's that key again?


----------



## Bryan Moran

For me this is coming at the right time. I am paying close attention to the layout, not do much to the track. But that’s a busy area with all that track.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It's bound to have a lot of switching when you come from one point of entry and split out to ten tracks.


----------



## Millstonemike

Saw this type of *hinge on Amazon* that could be hidden under the platform. At 3", it's likely too small but it may give you ideas, lead to another type of hinge.


----------



## Millstonemike

And another ....


----------



## Millstonemike

*These Hinges* are made for toy boxes to keep the lid from slamming closed and would likely work with your existing hinges. Perhaps a little customization could the provide ideal stop angle. And the locking screws may come in handy for extended periods when your in and out many times working on the layout.


----------



## Millstonemike

*Or these *that advertise an adjustable angle up to 110 deg. They have a soft close mechanism that may save the bridge from an "oops" event.


----------



## Lehigh74

That one in post 853 isn’t a hinge Mike. It’s meant to keep the lid up and to slow it down (by friction) when lowering so it doesn’t slam on little fingers. I used a few on a blanket chest I made for my wife.

And the one before it isn’t a good selection either for this application. It’s meant to hold a cupboard door in the up position. I have also used one of those on an entertainment center I made years ago.


----------



## Millstonemike

Lehigh74 said:


> That one in post 853 isn’t a hinge Mike. It’s meant to keep the lid up and to slow it down (by friction) when lowering so it doesn’t slam on little fingers. I used a few on a blanket chest I made for my wife.
> 
> And the one before it isn’t a good selection either for this application. It’s meant to hold a cupboard door in the up position. I have also used one of those on an entertainment center I made years ago.


I understand your points. The bridge is already hinged. The toy box "slides" might be used to stop the bridge from going much past vertical. And, I think the cupboard hinge has possibilities but mounted differently than shown in the pic.


----------



## Krieglok

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's bound to have a lot of switching when you come from one point of entry and split out to ten tracks.


How much head room do you have beyond the entrance to the yard? A nice long lead helps when switching.

I see you installEd escape cross overs in any of the yard tracks at the far end. Good move!

pardon my lack of knowledge, my following this thread has been falling behind as of late…

Tom


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The actual bridge is 28" wide, and the lead from the first switch that splits the single feed from the main is 64" to the near end of the bridge. As you can see, one of the 4-way yard switches is before the bridge, the other is on the bridge. Also, there's a switch that selects either the second 4-way yard switch that is on the bridge or the two-way switch for the remaining two tracks.
I know the question will come up about the curved tracks. Because of the angle that the 4-way switches sat to make things work straight on the yard, I needed the gentle s-curves to make things line up. Also, the exits of head switch, while being about the same angle, was offset from the mating switch. This required me to "step" over, hence making the use of the s-curves handy. I also wanted to keep any curves to O72 or greater for the entire yard section, that goal was accomplished.

I added a graduated roadbed from the 1/4" I used on the main layout to the table level in about 18". I sandwiched three 2mm foam sheets to step down to table level smoothly.










The escape switches seemed like a fun idea, so I added a couple. It would be very easy to drop a couple more in if I really find that I use them regularly.

The remaining task is wiring, I'm hoping my spring contacts come in tomorrow and I can fit those to the bridge section, that's my final piece of the puzzle. I do have to come up with a 10-switch panel to individually energize each of the yard tracks, so I guess that's another task.

For the curious among us, the peg that sticks out of the bridge is a temporary measure to keep the bridge from folding all the way down and having the tracks on the bridge running into the tracks on the main platform extension. Gargraves track is fine, but if the bridge gets set down a bit to hard, it can damage it with track-to-track contact. I'm working on a more "scenic" way to replace that.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

These are the pins that I'm probably going to use for the contacts, they should arrive today.

P125-A Spring Test Probe Pogo Pin Diameter 2.5mm Thimble


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The yard is done!  Time for a party! 🍸 Got my switch panel installed, wired all the tracks, and tested all the routes and switching.

One little glitch surfaced that I overlooked when laying track. The Ross #202 yard switches that I used I "thought" I ordered pre-wired, but in looking at my invoice, I got the plain bare switch. So, power was not carried through the switch. In truth, that was probably a good thing in retrospect, I got to decide how the crossover to the next track was powered. However, I conveniently forgot about power until I was testing and noticed that the power stopped as the switches!  That little oversight was corrected and now all is well.

I embedded a little lighted push-button toggle panel into the yard to power each track individually. Given my track record with switches lately, I added connectors at the panel so I can remove it if necessary to replace a switch!



















I found the panel on Amazon, it's actually a desk bezel for passing wiring through. I took the trapdoor and brush assembly out and tossed them. There was a convenient slot near the top to slide in my fiberglass panel with the switches mounted, job done.

Antrader 160mm Length Black Metal Rectangle Wire Cable Grommet Hole Cover for Computer Desk Table (Black)


----------



## Millstonemike

Nice job on the panel.

Here's a panel I used in a prior project. 5"x7" overall w/ 4" x 6" useable for switches, et., al. I believe its made of polyester. Very thick and drills like a sharp bit in aluminum. Nice to work with. I created a 4" x 6" template on the PC (MS-PowerPoint) and laid it into the panel to drill the holes. Then did the same for control IDs and covered them with a plastic sheet. The switches/pots hold that in place.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's a classy job, I could always "improve" mine with an overlay, but I'd have to redo all the switches. However, mine is perfectly "functional" now.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Numbered the tracks so you know which button to push on the switch panel.  Waiting for my bumper material to come in to put the rubber bumper at coupler height.


----------



## Desperado

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Numbered the tracks so you know which button to push on the switch panel.  Waiting for my bumper material to come in to put the rubber bumper at coupler height.
> 
> View attachment 567436


Are you going to add some lighted bumpers to the track ends so the cars don't hit the wall?


----------



## Desperado

Desperado said:


> Are you going to add some lighted bumpers to the track ends so the cars don't hit the wall?


....oops - disregard - I looked at the picture instead of reading!!!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, I'm just going to run a strip of rubber cushion along the wall at coupler height. I can't see using a full bumper and giving away several inches of yard space, that might just be the extra inch I need to fit an extra car on that track!  I thought about some lights there, but I already have the lighted switches, so I know which ones are energized.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

*I feel like an artist with a blank canvas, 216 feet of new Glenn Snyder shelving all ready to be populated! Time to start unpacking more stuff!








*


----------



## Lehigh74

That appears to be your previous box storage area. Where did you put them all so you could get the shelves in?

Lotta space to fill. Better get a few locos at First Frost.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the stuff on the previous shelves has all been distributed under the layout, all the spaces are filled!  As far as Allentown, stuff has been known to follow me home from there. I'll be sure to pack a few large bills in my wallet, just in case... 



























Missing box mystery solved!


----------



## wvgca

it looks way too neat .... lol


----------



## Spence

Shelves look good but will look better when they’re full.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Spence said:


> Shelves look good but will look better when they’re full.


Yep, filling them is next on the list. 


wvgca said:


> it looks way too neat .... lol


I'll slop it up soon!


----------



## beachhead2

I would not have even stopped to take the picture. The shelves must be full!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, that's going to take a little longer. I'm happy to get them up and clean up the mess, I'll get to filling them soon.


----------



## Lee Willis

Ah Geez. 216 feet of new shelves. I am jealous with envy.


----------



## MichaelE

I don't know how far you are from the end of the yard while operating the trains, but could you use an IR detector near the end of the track to light an indicator telling you when you have an inch of track left or less?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lee Willis said:


> Ah Geez. 216 feet of new shelves. I am jealous with envy.


Lee, that's probably at least 10% of your shelf space!  I'll never approach your self space allotment! 


MichaelE said:


> I don't know how far you are from the end of the yard while operating the trains, but could you use an IR detector near the end of the track to light an indicator telling you when you have an inch of track left or less?


I did it the lazy man's way. I just installed a nice soft rubber bumper at the end.


----------



## MichaelE

As long as it works. I just like blinky flashing lights...


----------



## Quietman

Fun watching this develop over time.


----------



## Traindiesel

I was planning on using 1X4 boards with O27 track for wall storage. But those Snyder shelving looks too darn good!

Nice work on the yards tracks, John! Great seeing you at York!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Got my subway platform and tracks in, still to do is wiring and of course the fascia. Tom Tee the ace carpenter was integral in this process, and the shelving is built like a battleship! I think I can say without fear of contradiction that nothing short of a chain saw is taking this down! 

I clipped some power to the tracks and ran the MTH subway around, worked like a champ. The two switches have a spring return to the thru path, so the operation is automatic, and the subway always enters the station on the straight path.

There will be fascia over all three bays, and a platform in front of the station track with a backdrop of a typical subway station. I'm also going to have a dummy track behind the operating track where I can position a stationary car peeking in one end of the platform.










I have to say, the yard looks odd with nothing parked on it, it hasn't been that way for quite a spell!


----------



## seayakbill

You certainly will be able to stage bunches of freight cars in that yard, looks terrific.

Bill


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Here is is before I emptied it to work on the subway platform. 😅


----------



## Spence

That's where your backdrop is going so I imagine the yard will be empty for a while.


----------



## papa3rail

Like the subway dog bone John,will it all be visible when your done or will you only reveal a couple stations?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Spence said:


> That's where your backdrop is going so I imagine the yard will be empty for a while.


Nope, I moved them all from the layout back into the yard. I'll have to move them out again when I get the backdrop mounted on the Formica.


papa3rail said:


> Like the subway dog bone John,will it all be visible when your done or will you only reveal a couple stations?


It will indeed only have a couple openings. I'm really planning on one station in the middle, and I'll have and opening or two with just the look of what you see going between stations, support poles and maybe a worker on the walkway behind the track.


----------

