# Coal drag (money pit)... Update



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

My monthly Train Fund is being heavily burdened... my own fault for being snobbishly fussy.

My SP coal drag will be headed by a trio of '50's diesels -- two SP RS11's, and a Cotton Belt GP7... all in Black Widow paint.

Of the 31-car make-up, (thirty 70-ton triples) ten are Accurail, and the rest are overpriced fund-drainers.
But I found a BLI 6-pack of D&RGW's at $50 off at Hobbylinc (w/free shipping) and the SP, D&RGW, MKT, and KCS Accurails were all under $12 from sales and the 'bargain bucket' at my LHS.

_However_...
The fund-draining 14 Tangent UTAH's are killing me at $35 each.
They became an obsession and a curse the moment I noticed them.
So far, I have eight different numbers. Six to go.
And to think I started the whole idea with a $10 SP Accurail kit.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Coal trains, they'll run you broke if you let them!


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

LateStarter said:


> And to think I started the whole idea with a $10 SP Accurail kit.


Isn't that always the way, eh?


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

time warp said:


> Coal trains, they'll run you broke if you let them!


And every month, I promise myself to shell out $150 for a bundle of Peco code 83, plus money for two Walthers turnouts.
Putting the cart before the horse really bites.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I'm actually thinking of including a few ExactRail Burlington QUADS (vintage '67).

The three 4-axle diesels will pull over 40 cars, so I know it'll work, but man... I'm pushing the financial envelope!


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Yeah, don't let that desire for more hoppers get outa hand.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

D&J Railroad said:


> Yeah, don't let that desire for more hoppers get outa hand.


Very nice!
I see you've got a BLI 6-pack of N&W's in the foreground.
Those are slick.
I like everything about my D&RGW's, except for the confounded plastic boxes they come it.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Noooo, I think there's at least 10 of those six packs around the layout.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

For those interested in running "Sneaky Petes" (blackouts) in their coal drags, Accurail's KCS triple hopper is about the closest thing to it.
Item #7513.
The only thing I've found to be closer is a Data-Only car, but then you have to letter it with a reporting mark.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

LateStarter,
Your candor is refreshing! :thumbsup:


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Wha..?


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

time warp said:


> Wha..?


"candor".......as in "forthrightness"
Meaning you're sayin' it like it is with no BS. :thumbsup:
Lots of folks are WAY too proud to admit anything is stretching their budget, particularly "toy" trains. :laugh:


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Sorry, I'm with you on the candor, I was referencing the "blackout" remark. New one on me.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

raleets said:


> "candor".......as in "forthrightness"
> Meaning you're sayin' it like it is with no BS. :thumbsup:
> Lots of folks are WAY too proud to admit anything is stretching their budget, particularly "toy" trains. :laugh:


Budget??  This has something to do with toys?? :laugh:


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

time warp said:


> Sorry, I'm with you on the candor, I was referencing the "blackout" remark. New one on me.


I did a whole thread on "Sneaky Petes" and blackouts about 5 months ago.

Near the end of the steam era, a trend toward illegal freight trafficking began to flourish. It was aided by unmarked rail cars with only chalked-on numbers and reporting marks -- no company name. As I said in that o.p., I'm not sure of the reason or methods behind it.

But the cars became known as 'Blackouts', and got the nickname "Sneaky Petes" by the Feds.

These still exist today, but they run legally, with stenciled numbers and reporting marks.
The KCS car is a perfect example.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Thanks, I missed that one I guess.:dunno:


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Stuck my toe into boiling water.........gettin' out while the gettins' good.....dang!


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

raleets said:


> Stuck my toe into boiling water.........gettin' out while the gettins' good.....dang!


 I don't think so, I guess I missed that thread. Interesting.
I too have been there on the " budget buster" purchases!


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

FYI...
ExactRail won't be shipping for awhile.
They announced there was a roof collapse in a suite next-door to their facility.
No mention of whether the facility affected is their warehouse or assembly operation.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Yikes!...
My friend has a huge basement layout, modeling the Norfolk Southern.
He said his two MTH dash-9's pull 78 triple hoppers without straining or slipping.
What a sight that must be!


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Late Starter - I feel your paint totally. The ExactRail D&RGW 16,xxx series coal cars were on sale in December and I ordered 15 of them during the month in bunches so I could qualify for free shipping. They were $32.95 each while on sale. I have 22 of the 24 possible numbers now. I have only 5 of the Utah Rwy coal cars but need to get some more since the D&RGW shared tracks with the Utah Rwy. I only have 3 of the Atlas Utah RS4/5 diesels and hope Atlas will re-run them. I simply couldn't afford the Utah ex ATSF allegators when they were out - just not enough money and I spend a lot as it is. Costs are just such that I can't afford everything I want in my genre! It's nuts!

To be fair, modeling the D&RGW coal trains is a challenge - here is approx. what I have so far:

Athearn RTR Thrall hi-side coal gons:
- 25 DRGW blue end (1980-1984)
- 25 NORX yellow end (1970's and 1980's)
- 25 PCSX red end 1970' - 1980's)
- 35 DRGW/UP "Coal Liner" Kaiser coal cars (1967-1980's)

35 - Walthers 100 ton quads
22 - ExactRail 100 ton quads

7- D&RGW Atlas & Stewart 3-bay coal cars

6 - Stewart Carbon County coal cars

Utah Rwy coal train:
- 10 Bowser 3-bay UP cars
- 3 Tangent quad UP cars
- 5 Tangent PS3 3-bay Utah cars

32 - Athearn RTR 5-bay CSDPU Ortner Rapid discharge car.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

riogrande said:


> Late Starter - I feel your paint totally.
> To be fair, modeling the D&RGW coal trains is a challenge - here is approx. what I have so far:


Wow!
Awesome!
Kudos!
:smilie_daumenpos:


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Rio Grande hauled a number of coal trains which consisted of the Thrall hi-side coal gondola's and Athearn did a pretty nice job upgrading the old MDC cars, which are appropriate for a number of coal trains D&RGW handled.

BTW, Athearn is "finally" re-running ex-MDC Thrall hi side gons in unit coal train version next due next June:

http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Thrall

It will include re-runs of the D&RGW cars (they only owned 5 numbers) and 10 UP numbers - which they ran together with. Sorry for the bad news for your wallet!


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

The GP7 didn't work out...
Lost the bid -- Started at $88, and ballooned up to $190 (used).
It'll be three Atlas RS11's in Black Widow. Two Gold's and a Silver (all new).
The Silver is now being converted to DCC w/sound, and all will be speed-matched.
Black Widow GP7's are hard to find _anytime_, let alone on payday.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

So is this a sort of freelance coal train?

D&RGW used geeps and F units to pull coal trains into the mid-1960's but after that, SD45's and GP30/GP35/GP40's took over from GP7/9 F7's and by the late 1960's they were being retired quickly and mainly worked a few passenger trains and helper duties.

The Burlington ExactRail quads were 1967 and 1969 built so are about a decade too new unless are freelance of course.

The Utah cars were built 1956 IIRC so those are fair game.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I now have the complete Tangent set of UTAH triple hoppers, and I've started adding unnumbered UTAH units for decal numbering... 21 total.
Along with the D&RGW H2a's, the Accurail SP's, and KCS o.s. blackouts, I should have a nice 30-40 car drag to pull behind the three RS11's.
Next step will be Kadees and metal wheels for the Accurails.
Oh, and finally laying some track, lol.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Thanks for that link...
Yeah, ExactRail's Burlington quads are mid/late '60's I think.
I'd use them, since I'm modeling the '50's/'60's.
Not sure if they'd fit with the Southwestern locale though.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

riogrande said:


> So is this a sort of freelance coal train?


Trying to be as prototypical as I can...
The SP ran to Salt Lake, Ogden, Lucin Cutoff, with a butt-ton of Utah cars, with some D&RGW and KCS mixed in, but 100-car trains are impossible to model on a realistic ratio.
I figure if I can sprinkle-in a few, it might look okay.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Ah cool. I know very little about SP coal movements - I was only a teen in the 1970's when I started watching SP the Davis/Sacramento area and up over Donner Pass.

Because the Utah coal trains ran along side D&RGW, I have always been interested in them. The ex-ATSF gators didn't come to Utah until the mid-1970's:

http://utahrails.net/utah-ry/utah-ry-diesel-index.php

Until then, it was the Alco RSD4/5's - Atlas made them in Utah paint in HO, but they are hard to find now. Those and the Utah coal cars are good for the 1950's. I haven't seen any photo's of Utah coal trains in the 1950's but in 1960's and later there were a lot of UP brown coal cars mixed in.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

riogrande said:


> The ex-ATSF gators didn't come to Utah until the mid-1970's:
> 
> Until then, it was the Alco RSD4/5's - Atlas made them in Utah paint in HO, but they are hard to find now. Those and the Utah coal cars are good for the 1950's. I haven't seen any photo's of Utah coal trains in the 1950's but in 1960's and later there were a lot of UP brown coal cars mixed in.


I love the RSD-15's! I'd go for them, if it didn't put me out of era. They were transferred to TNO almost immediately, and by the time they returned around 1970, they were relegated to hump yard duty in Eugene.
But I'd give my left arm for an RSD4/5. They went through four different SP paint schemes.
Can't find good ones anywhere.

And very interesting dope on the Thrall High Sides. Thanks...
I hadn't known about them.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

I think the ex-ATSF RSD-15's are very cool too. I was sad I couldn't afford them when they came out - maybe I'll get lucky some day and find some in a treasure hunt.

Well, we can lobby Atlas for more RSD4/5's. I have 2 from the very first run plus a duplicate number. Atlas re-ran them a second time and I missed out on those. They keep churning out RSD4/5's but so far no more Utah, so maybe time to shake their tree!

Athearn produced the upgraded ex-MDC RTR hi side unit train coal gons in 2006 and I started buying them then. Here is a link to all of them past and present, HO and N:

http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Thrall&OA=True&PageSize=72

If you go to page 2 and 3 you can see the older issue. They did a lot of unit coal train versions between 2006 and maybe 2010, and since then mostly done latter day trash gon versions. This June 2017 is the first time they've re-run coal unit train gons in 7 years!


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

BTW, I've decided that $4.75 each was too much to spend on JWD coal loads, so I'm making my own with model coal glued to construction foam inserts.
There's a thread on it somewhere else in this forum. It's quite easy, and very economical. Plus, with a SureForm, you can achieve a 'no-two-alike' process.
After cutting out the foam inserts, you can knock out a dozen in less than half an hour. They look every bit as good as anything you can buy.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

One of the bonuses of the ExactRail coal cars is that they come with two types of loads - one is a heap load where the coal is in 3 mounds, and the other is flood load where it is a long mound.

Since I purchase 22 of these ER coal cars, I actually have 44 loads! I have 35 Walthers quads too so I'm going to see if the excess ExactRail loads fit them.

There is a guy that comes to the Timonium show that makes and sells coal loads, 2 for $8 IIRC, and they are made from real Antracite coal - shiny and looks awesome. I'm going to get some of his. He also makes the best looking scrap metal loads I've every seen. I've got 5 of those so far to fit my gondolas for P2K, ExactRail and E&C shops.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

As far as I know, there are several different possibilities in the realm of coal load 'profiles' or 'shapes', and they can depend on some interesting factors, such as load facility type, car type, and mileage.
A fresh load can be the ubiquitous _two-hump_ profile, or it can be the _heaped_ load, or the _chute-raked_ (flat top mound) configuration.
Most freshly-loaded prototype profiles will look similar to one of these.
But after accumulated mileage, a coal load assumes a fairly 'settled' profile, and becomes practically _flat_. And with severe settling, a load can even go beyond flat -- to a _concave_ profile, especially with lighter Western coal.

Heavy iron ore will stay mounded, and has been transported in gondolas and hoppers by shallow-piling it over the truck centers.

Gravel and cinder will settle to a lesser degree than coal. Limestone doesn't tend to heap into high mounds. Coke pretty much stays the way it was loaded. Pit and waste ash (for the steam era) will settle like a liquid, and if left too long in cold wet weather, will turn to a goopy clay, and freeze like concrete.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Aye...


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