# DC wiring a Peco X crossing



## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

Someone here must know the answer to this question. I haven't used an X crossing on a layout since I was a kid, and then it was only for running a single train on a single track that went twice around with one power pack. 

Now I'm in a position where I might want a main line and a branch to cross each other with an X from Peco. I have a dual DC throttle now so I can run two DC trains at once on electrically separated tracks. Are the two tracks through a Peco X electrically separate? I am assuming that they are separate, but you know the old saying about the word assume. Spark. Flash. Run away train. Poof. Of course, I can order one and test it with a meter to see what conducts where, but I thought I would ask first.

-Florida RR-


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## johnfl68 (Feb 1, 2015)

This is for DCC, but I would think should work for DC as well depending on situation (link should jump to the crossing section near the bottom of a long page):

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a53

Do you know if it is a Peco Insulfrog, or Electrofrog?
Do you already have, or are you going to order?

Do you have a meter to check continuity, so you can see what parts of your crossover may be connected to each other?

Is this a figure 8 layout with crossover in the middle?

At least it is a starting point as to how some crossovers work and are wired.


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I haven't bought one yet. I'm still drawing on paper. I can answer the question easily if I order one and wait a few days to test it with my volt meter. Everything I use will be insulfrog. I don't have any need for powered frogs in my situation. It seems logical (to me) to me that the two tracks crossing in the X would be kept electrically separate from one another.

This is an idea for a small layout with two main lines and a simulated "branch" that runs from the inner main line out to a distant logging area in one corner.

-Florida RR-


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Insulated crossing*



Florida RR said:


> I haven't bought one yet. I'm still drawing on paper. I can answer the question easily if I order one and wait a few days to test it with my volt meter. Everything I use will be insulfrog. I don't have any need for powered frogs in my situation. It seems logical (to me) to me that the two tracks crossing in the X would be kept electrically separate from one another.
> 
> -Florida RR-


 I don't know for sure about Peco but Atlas has crossings in several angles; all have insulated, separate routes.

Traction Fan


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

If anyone is curious where this small layout is heading, and why I am thinking about using the X, here is a current sketch. It is two main lines with a simulated "branch" from the inner line crossing the outer line and heading off to a small logging area in one corner. It is very hard to keep trains running in circles on a small layout from looking quite so much like ... well ...trains running in circles on a small layout. This track plan at least throws in a little variety. I can keep my MP15DC in the tiny yard. It can run on the inner main line if I put the main train down the "branch" off to the side. Another train can run on the outer main line, and it could be a different railroad although I am not planning on that for now. Two different railroads at that X would create an "interlock" right?

So, that makes three trains with two running at any given time. Another switcher could sit on the small spur track at the bottom where I want to put a feed-n-seed or something along those lines. I think this is about as much action as I can cram into 27x49 inches.

-Florida RR-


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## johnfl68 (Feb 1, 2015)

If Insulfrog, then should be (should) like what is listed on that page as the Walthers/Shinohara example as 2 separate sections, Blue and Red, and Pink and Green.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Looks great!*



Florida RR said:


> If anyone is curious where this small layout is heading, and why I am thinking about using the X, here is a current sketch. It is two main lines with a simulated "branch" from the inner line crossing the outer line and heading off to a small logging area in one corner. It is very hard to keep trains running in circles on a small layout from looking quite so much like ... well ...trains running in circles on a small layout. This track plan at least throws in a little variety. I can keep my MP15DC in the tiny yard. It can run on the inner main line if I put the main train down the "branch" off to the side. Another train can run on the outer main line, and it could be a different railroad although I am not planning on that for now. Two different railroads at that X would create an "interlock" right?
> 
> So, that makes three trains with two running at any given time. Another switcher could sit on the small spur track at the bottom where I want to put a feed-n-seed or something along those lines. I think this is about as much action as I can cram into 27x49 inches.
> 
> -Florida RR-


 Florida RR;

Your track plan looks great! I'm quite impressed with how much railroad operation you fit into a very small space. As to your question, Yes if the two tracks passing through the crossing belonged to two different railroad companies, it would be an "interlocking". This means that the crossing would be signaled to not allow two trains into it at the same time. If there was some siding where cars could be spotted by one railroad, then picked up by the other; then the interlocking would also be an "interchange". Such a siding usually connected to one railroad's track at one end and the other railroad's track at the opposite end. This connection enabled an engine to leave cars where the other Company's loco could retrieve them. This is a means of forwarding the cars on to their final destinations. 
An interchange like this is a "universal industry", in that any type of car could be spotted or picked up there. This is very useful on model railroads, especially small model railroads. It gives us a logical place to do a lot of operating in a very small area.

Again nice track plan;

Traction Fan


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

All standard crossings are wired so that both tracks are independent. You can
use one power pack for Left up to right, and a second for right down to left.
No insulated joiners are needed unless you have other reasons to isolate
a section. But you will have to determine what degree crossing you'll need
for that. Geometry is above my pay grade.

Nice little layout. I like the action that crossings create. I tried to
work one in my layout but failed.

I may have missed seeing, I am assuming this is a DC layout. If
it is DCC there would be no complex wiring at all, merely a buss
running from bottom to top with track drops at each track along
the way. No insulated joiners needed.

But, if you are DC, will you be wiring the layout so that you can select which power pack
feeds which track section? You'll need insulated joiners to separate the various
'blocks' that will each be controlled by Double pole double throw (DPDT) switches.

Peco Insulfrog turnouts are power routing: That is: the power to the curve track
is off when the points are set for straight. Sometimes you may have to add
frog rail drops to maintain continuous power.

Most Atlas turnouts are not power routing.

Don


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks DonR. I got my first Peco N insulfrog turnout and side mount PL-11 point motor today. The turnout has wires underneath to connect all of the different parts of the frog rails and points. People used to do this themselves I think so as not to rely on old tarnished points to route power. They don't appear to be power routing any more since power may enter all parts of the turnout from any track. I think this is the new "DCC friendly" version of the Peco code 80 insulfrog that I read about. All powered all the time except the small plastic frog.

I'm glad to know about the crossing being ok with two separate DC controls. That makes my job easier. I'm using dual DC for two continuously running trains, and not having to worry about gaps and additional wiring is a plus.

I never would have come up with this track plan without SCARM. It allows combining track and turnouts from different manufacturers and it calculates and displays flex track radii automatically with the flex track tool. This allowed me to set all radii and the angle for the crossover itself very easily. With SCARM over the past few weeks, I created about a dozen different track plans for this small coffee table layout. I think this one with the inner oval interlocking with the outer oval and running off the layout as a branch line is the best I can do. I'll probably use a mirror to make the branch run off into the distance.

Now I wait for my cabinetmaker to finish my custom glass top coffee table so I can get started laying track. When the table arrives, I'l combine all of my posts about this project into its own thread.

Trains are the BEST Christmas gift!!! :thumbsup:

-Florida RR-


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Check your Insulfrog turnout frog rails again. According to what I
read they are power routing, but then what I saw may be old info.
This would be important only if you want to keep the power on
at all times on stub tracks. It would matter little on an oval where
the power can go around and come back.

Use a multimeter set for ohms, put one probe on the the long
frog rail and the other on the short frog rail. Manually flip the
points. If you get a reading in only one position it is power
routing. If you get a reading in either position they are not.

In the absence of a multimeter you could use a 12 volt auto
bulb the same way using the output of your power pack.

Don


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

DonR said:


> Use a multimeter set for ohms, put one probe on the the long
> frog rail and the other on the short frog rail. Manually flip the
> points. If you get a reading in only one position it is power
> routing. If you get a reading in either position they are not.


I did this, and the position of the points makes no difference. It works just like an old Atlas turnout that I have sitting here. On the Peco, there is an X of two wires underneath the plastic frog connecting the long frog rail to the short frog rail. That by definition makes it not power routing, right? Power does not have to flow through the points, and the points can't control the route of the power due to that soldered X of wire. Did I say that right?

Maybe this is what I read about as a new style Peco "DCC friendly" turnout. When I remove it from its temporary test base, I'll take a picture of the X of wires soldered underneath the insulfrog. I was surprised to see them there.

-Florida RR-


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have HO Peco Insulfrogs and they are power routing. But, your
test proves that your N scale Insulfrogs are not. That's good. 
I would agree, those wires you see on the bottom of the turnouts
must have been connected in such a way as to defeat the power
routing. 

So many manufacturers, dealers, and hobby guys say this or
that turnout is DCC friendly. It's all nonsense. Turnouts work
the same no matter what the system. The one thing they are
using to claim this is the ability of locos to go through the
turnout without losing power at the frog. The locos that
have this problem usually have poor power pickup because they
are not using all wheels to do so. A typical present day loco with
all wheel power pickup will sail through unperturbed no matter
whether DC or DCC.

Don


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