# AF Chuggar Sound



## T-Man

Found this in a junk box purchase, attached to a Lionel tender.





















The small hole on thr right is not the piston but air is forced through it.


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## SkyArcher

Cool! Does it run?


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

I've read about those, but never seen one or heard one. From your photos, I see a motor (field, brushes, etc.) moving a crank that drives some sort of a piston / cylinder ... a soft air whooshing noise? a friction rubbing sound?

What gives, T? Enlighten us!

TJ


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## Stillakid

Bob, very nice! What shell did they have over it? From the size, I'm thinking something like the scout metal shell(1689?)


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## T-Man

WOW a captive crowd. 

It does work. Not loud though.
It is in a modern shell 2446 or something sim. 1666T-4. I installed some railings.
I will do a video with a quiet engine.
Nobody else has one????


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## Stillakid

Bob, how loud without the shell? Maybe you need to "alter" the tender. Something like cutting out the coal load and replacing it with some black, speaker fabric?

Have you seen this?

http://www.shifrin.net/trains/service_bench/chugger/chug-service.htm


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## T-Man

I never considered the volume.
It came with a set I bought in the 80's. Not sure which one. I cleaned it up and it ran. I suspected it might be AF but never found any documention. Too bad I can't print any information on it. I got the diagram to print though. It's just like the diagrams, cylinder, switch and motor. The frame wasn't marked but I repainted it. The shell is a 1666T-4.
Mechanically there is nothing wrong with it. There was nothing else AF that was in the box so I do not have the original tender. The holes were crudely cut so I cleaned them up a little. I did redo the screw holes three were bad. I won't touch the shell but have a reason to look at another. I would cut a side out and cloth it.
This is a printable link.


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## Reckers

Bob, it's similar to the AF chuffing mechanism that goes in the steam engines. The earliest steamers with the chuff/smoke had it in the tender; SIT or SIB are the acronyms used for "Smoke in Tender" or "Smoke in Boiler" to identify which version of the same locomotive is being discussed.


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## SkyArcher

So what does it sound like? A whoopee cushion?:laugh:


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## Reckers

Probably like me at 4 am, after beer and Taco Bell with my son at midnight. There's the slow-speed, thoughtful "chuff.......chuff.......chuff......" or the high-speed, "Let's get this over with!" rate of "CHUFF-CHUFF-CHUFF-CHUFF-CHUFF-CHUFF----CHUFF--------chuff.................chuff...." that wakes my girlfriend up and drives her outta the bedroom!


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## Reckers

*LOL* Timboy, I'd have to concede you're right on that one.

Sky, if it's like the chuff mechanism in the AF steamer engines, it sounds remarkably like a real steam engine does: a very pleasant simulation of the timed steam-release as the piston in the steam chest flies back and forth---chuff...chuff....chuff. As the engine moves faster, it chuffs faster, just like the real thing. 

In a car, the piston slamming down drives a rotary crank; this is the reverse. A crank drives the piston up to make a chuff as air is compressed at the top of the cylinder, then is drawn back down as the crank rotates further.


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## tjcruiser

So, Reck ... that was my question above ...

The sound is made via air (like a low-frequency pipe organ), rather than friction of the sliding cylinder ???

TJ


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## Reckers

Teej, I'd have to take my engine apart to make sure how it works, but I can tell you this much: there is a small piston that is driven by the train's electric motor: the worm gear that drives the wheels has an extra gear resting above it and engaged with the worm gear. That gear is relatively large in diameter; on the flat face of the gear, near the teeth, is a pin. The pin connects to a piston rod and that rod to the piston; the piston is forced up a metal cylinder and then drawn down again, over and over. What I don't know is how the air being forced out at the top of the stroke creates the chuff sound. I suspect it's simply the sound of air being forced out of the top of the piston through a narrow opening.


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## T-Man

Jim gave me the maintenance manual in a link. The pipe organ theory holds.
I repaired the brush holder years ago, it cracked. I have been cleaning grease from the seal. I have noticed my number 2 washer is loose and out of position. At this point I don't want to remove number three in the way.

As you have mentioned it, the appearance is similiar to the 1962 model I worked on.

The hole of the first piece. The next picture has the third piece, the reed I guess slightly bent.









This one sort of shows the number two not flush with the end behind the reed.









The back end.









The plunger. I think, I used vaseline not grease on the leather.


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## Reckers

I stand corrected!!!!


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## SkyArcher

I guess we can't blame it on the train...


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

Excellent surgical photos. The innards (reed, leather-wrapped plunger, etc.) mesh well with the instructional drawings that you and Jim had posted.

Thanks for the inside look!

TJ


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## T-Man

I thought Reck was doing rather well.


To overkill here is the switch.










The big gear.









The repaired brushplate.









I will clean the motor next and figure out how to seal the second washer without removing that reed plate.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

Two thoughts ...

1. If I understand you, the aft-most "washer disc" (or valve, I guess) has been inadvertently pushed back too far, away from the edge of the big side opening window. But there's no easy way to grab it and move it back into position, with the resonator reed in the way. (Do I have that right?) If so, I'm wondering if the misplaced valve is magnetic? Can you poke in there with a strong (but small) magnet, grab it (magnetically), and wiggle it back into position? Or, if not that, maybe temporarilly super-glue a little grab stick to it's face, wiggle it into position, then break off the stick?

2. In your service info link, did you see the trick to add some diodes to the circuit to have the chugger stop chugging when the loco is kicked into neutral? Right up your alley.

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man

I have a plan. I may grab it directly from the access hole or from the sound hole go straight in and hook to pull out. Then cut the wire for removal since I may have to bend it from the acces hole. I could drill from the backside and push out and then epoxy the hole.
I skipped the diodes for now since the interest was to hear this beast roar.
I am leaving the piston in the cylinder to store. 
I may attempt to epoxy it in. It does move a little.


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## tjcruiser

Ohh ... I forgot that the displaced "valve" has a small hole in its middle. That's your grab spot ... good thinking!

You mean epoxy THAT disc valve, right? (Not the piston?  Your comment was confusing.   )

TJ


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## T-Man

Yes, the manual suggests both washers be epoxied. Piston no, I don't want it to inflate out of the cylinder so I make sure it stays in.
So far I am not impressed with the diodes. My version isn't working well. The 1062 still won't run on the track with a bridge rectifier. I have gone to my third at 6 amps. Still trying though.


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## T-Man

I got aggressive and removed the end cap by breaking off the curl with pliers.










The hidden second washer.










The end cap.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

Interesting ... a "figure 8" style hole in that washer ... with one half flanged to one side, and the other half flanged the other way. I suspect that's done specifically to affect the acoustics?

You know, you've baited the trap here pretty well for all of us. We keep sniffin' around on this thread, nibbling at a few morsels, but hoping for the big slab of meat payoff at the end. You ARE gonna post a video (with sound) when you get that puppy up and running again ... right ???

The anticipation is killin' me ...

TJ


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## T-Man

Epoxy time. Next step.
I hope the second washer doesn't need a special orientation.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

Interestingly, the instructions link says that washer #2 (the one you've just removed) is supposed to have a 3/16" hole. It doesn't mention anything about the "figure 8 with ridges" style hole.

Hmmm ... I'd have to think that yours (just now seeing the light of day) is 100% original.

TJ


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## T-Man

*A good Time is Epoxy TIme*

Today I assembled the chuff. I used my plastic ruler for depth to ensure a level washer. I did numbe two first ,then the back side and number one last. I am not certain for any special orientation for number two so I guessed.

Empty with all three removed except for the resonator.









This is the number one washer I did both sides.









For depth the number one was 25 cm in from the end to the edge of the cup. or inch minus a litlle. The number two was just over 1/2 inch or 13.3mm.


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## T-Man

*The Movie, TJ*


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## Big Ed

First time I have seen this post?


Nice chugging sound. :thumbsup:
It sort of looks like the arm that's turning the disk is too loose?
It adds a lot of unnecessary noise?

It seems when you turn it up all the way it quiets down nice though.

Is there a way to get it tighter? 
Or is that the way it's supposed to be?


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## T-Man

Ed, you work too much.:laugh:

Technically I know little about it.
The arm is a wiggler. I will check it out.
The motor is loud too.
Now, I have to get a good shell to improve the sound.


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## Boston&Maine

Wow, that is really cool... It would be interesting to take that and put it in a pre/post-war Lionel tender


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## T-Man

You have been studying too much. It is.

None of the S gaugers have one! :laugh:

It came with a 1666T, But I don't want to drill it.
A metal one may be better, good idea. I have enough of those.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

*BRAVO!!!*

I love it! Neat sound ... very clever concept. Hats off to the old AF designers. And to Mr. Fix It T-Man, too, of course!

That crank does wobble around a bit, as Ed says. Though in looking at the design, I'd expect that it supposed to do that. It kind of has to, given that the portion of the drive crank attached to the gear wheel in NOT axially aligned with the portion of the crank that goes into the center of the piston. I.e., it's pushing the piston from the side, so to speak. Hence, some required loose joints and wobble.

Really awesome ... well done, T ... WELL DONE! Music to our ears!

TJ


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> You have been studying too much.


Haha, I guess so... I must have just breezed over the first posts of this thread


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## Lairbear

Wow!

I'm probably doing something incorrectly when I go to log in.
I get the message, vBulletin Message, you don't have permission to post, etc.
I log into the "upper right hand field", UN & PW and reverts to the same screen as discribed above vBulletin Message.
I'm at a loss.
Then I select forums and voila, I'm logged in.
??????? I'm angry and who's fault is it?
Is there a software/html issue?

Lairbear


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## tjcruiser

Are you checking the "Remember Me" box when you log in?


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