# E unit Drum Replacement



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The 1666 motor checked out after cleaning on a bench test. I removed all wirirng from the unit and tested the coil. It was only two connections on each side of the e unit to the track. The pawl moved. Next I used the special spreader tool. There is a bar in the vicinity of the drum area. Once that was spread the sides opend up and the bottom plate of contacts fell out. Then it was a matter of alignment of the parts and pressing it back to gether. Once the rod was in it held the sides together.

The drum touches two plates one on top and one below. The secod picture shows the pawl, that moves the drum.
The two yellow seen go to the brush plate. The top plate left connection goes to the motor coil insulated lead, just behind the eunit up near the top( out of sight). The top plate right connection goes to the hot insulated lead to the top left. This is also the connection point to the e unit coil and the center roller from the track. To the right where the lever is, that is the e unit coils conection. Notice the metal rod just below the top insulated plate.










The new drum installed with the tool. The new connections.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Is that a special spreader tool made for that purpose?
I have never seen one.

Or is it a T man custom made spreader tool you are talking about?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The lever was loose so I found my ruler spring and with a v cut made a spacer. I had to use a razor blade to get under that sping pressure plate. I didn't cut myself luckily. It did the trick. The motor with new wiring but no center roller yet.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That is an official e unit spreader tool. I got it out of NY for about 5 bucks with shipping. I have seen them as high as seven. One side spreads the other aligns the drum.

Normally the sides are very stiff but this one barely holds. It is just enough because it sits inside the motor frame anyway.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK...............

is that the actual tool in the picture sitting under the bracket frame?
or am I looking at the e lever switch?
is the tool pictured?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Tool*

Most of it. I will do another one.










I added this pictue since it is a good one. I found it in another thread.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Another one*

I took on another e unit. This time I replaced both panels and the drum. The sides did snap out from the rod and I replaced the items. I already soldered the wires and noticed the replacement panel slot are loose. They are so bad the fingers can be lifted from the drum not good so I used super glue to hold them in place. That will take time to dry so it is not tested.
NExT DAY. The glue worked, no movement. Time to test.

The tool with the replacement parts.









The e unit opened and the removed parts.









The cover installed from the old piece to the new. The assembled e unit.











The last picture shows the motor coil connection and the middle roller connection.









I thought it would be harder. I procrastinated for some time about doing just one of them. I have one more, a spare that needs work.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Test ans Torque*

Today I am trying to get the shell on the catfish 1666. I cleaned up the pickup roller plate and installed it. It chipped on in a slot. I borrowed two slides and track tested.

Now, I try not to over tighten a screw. The engine stalled and I notice it didn't want to turn. The culprit was the back armature support where the gear connects. The two machine screws came loose. An easy fix but you have to be viligant to problems. Pics to follow later.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What is the hooked end of the tool for do you know?

I got to look through my junks box I think I might have one of those.
If I do, I probably though it was a piece to a train or accessory.

I never rebuilt any e units I just swapped them out. I got a bunch in an auction once the seller said all but one worked. Got about 25 of them. Different types, $10.00 bucks with shipping as no one else bid. good deal.

(even though I didn't need them at the time!:laugh

Thanks for the e unit lesson T.

Even though at times I am not commenting I am still looking and learning.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

T-Man, do you have part numbers for these two pieces, the drum, and the spreader tool?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*For the record*

The second e unit has problems. Perhaps the super glue didn't hold. There was slop in those boards. Plus it didn't help the frame is tight. Maybe too tight. The is the motor I rewound a few years ago so I regrouped and moved on. I could also have a bad connection to the coil.


THe HOOK is for drum alignment when placed inside. I am not even sure I used it.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Boston&Maine said:


> T-Man, do you have part numbers for these two pieces, the drum, and the spreader tool?


I just stumbled upon the answer myself 

The two contacts are part numbers 100-45 and 100-46... The drum is part number 259E-1... $18.00 gets you all this plus the tool at Olsen's Parts... If you do not want the tool, you can get the contacts in a set for $9.00 and the drum for $6.00...


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Some how I missed your post till now. I paid 7.50 for the contacts and 3.50 for the drum at East Coast Train Parts at the Wilmington show.


E UNIT SPREADER at Stan Orr parts
$3.95 
4-01ST-303


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

T-Man said:


> Some how I missed your post till now.


I figured you did since we posted like a minute apart and my post got stuck on the bottom of the previous page


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

I'm just poking around a few threads and found this one. Boy, it looks like you and your surgical skills are bodly venturing where no man has gone!

As a Lionel novice (ultra-novice), I picked up a few "Lionel history" books from the library over the weekend. A chapter in one talked about the 1980's resurgence of the company, in many cases using old tooling and molds. They referred to something like the "1950's master service / repair manual" that was used then by certified service techs.

Is there one "master service manual" for post-war stuff, or is it really a collection of documents, insider know-how, etc.?

Just curious ...

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I use a blue hard cover book. I talked with a garage repair guy and he had a three volume set from Lionel or Greenberg. My friend at the LHS also has good references that I have seeked out but I don't have the info on them. I imagine the set is over 100.
I have found discussion excludes the novice so I try to use visuals as much as possible to generate interest. It has sort of become a caveat here. Greenberg has manual. I have an early disc that is ok It has the MPC era . Lionel.com has tech supplements full of modern information.

Sign up for that O scale club the links are all there.

As a beginner look at the basic 027/o manual. It is a composite of Lionel owner handbooks.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> ... so I try to use visuals as much as possible to generate interest.


... and a HUGE thank you from us novices for you taking the time to do so ... much appreciated! We ARE learning ... slowly, but surely!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> The lever was loose so I found my ruler spring and with a v cut made a spacer. I had to use a razor blade to get under that sping pressure plate. I didn't cut myself luckily. It did the trick.


T-Man,

You had mentioned this in another recent thread and provided the link to your original post here ...

GREAT IDEA !!!

I had a loose e-unit lever on the 258 that I'm restoring. I didn't have a tape measure spring on hand, but your "razor" comment got me thinking. I used a Dremel grinder to _carefully_ shape a little washer with a V-groove out of a single-edge razor blade. The razor metal was thin and stiff. I slipped it in carefully, and it works great ... tightened that lever right up.

You are a plethora of smart ideas, T-Man !!!

Thanks,

TJ


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry to bump this old thread T-Man but I just got back from vacation with some parts and that tool waiting for me. I was wondering if you could give a quick run down on how you use the e-unit spreader tool. I'm not seeing how you used it from your first post, is it an insert and pry? or twist? Does it matter? I have new boards and a new roller. Thanks a million!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The tool is a simple lever. The picture shows the post that hilds it together so pry close to that without bending the sides.












Here is the you tube version. Introduced by another member. It was TJ in this thread. (I guess I found it  )Intro to the E unit.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

That was awesome thanks so much!


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## Upiperbob (Mar 25, 2012)

Thank you for the lesson very informative. I have a #659 Hudson, replaced the brushes, drum, cleaned the fingers that touch the drum. I have replaced everything resoldered the weak connections. I have a problem though I have a black wire with a 
connection tip that I cannot remember where it goes. I know that the connecter tip marries up with one of the tender wires (from loco to tender there are 2 black wires)
Any suggestions on where the short black with goes would be appreciated. I've been
trying a wiring diagram to help with this but failed to find anything for the novice.
I'm learning though, next time I will create a picture of the wiring or draw a picture.
Any help or resources is appreciated. Bob


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

659 Hudson? Lionel??? Modern loco?

Are you sure that's the correct loco i.d.?

Any pics?

TJ


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## Upiperbob (Mar 25, 2012)

I'm sure it is....I know I haven't been able to find the #659 locomotive and tender... Hudson, Chicago & alton passenger " Red Line".


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That's a modern (recent) set ...

http://www.lionel.com/products/find...ywords=&CategoryID=500&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Manual ...

http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/73-1704-250.pdf

I would have thought that would have an electronic e-unit, rather than a conventional drum e-unit. Am I wrong about that?

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*UPDate*

This is a main thread on the e unit on page two there are links to the you tube video. The videos are not mine but they are a great resource. That leads me to my next find.

Currently I am working on a prewar 1689e. The e unit removed a little hard and I just figured out the problem trying to get it back in.
The unit should slide in between the frames but hung up on a cross piece that was a hair too long. SO out came the dremel, to grind the edges.


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## DangerIsGo (Jan 24, 2013)

I do have a question regarding the e-unit that has me stumped. I have a Lionel 2020 which I'm trying to restore. Since the engine didn't move after being put on the tracks, I opened it up and proceeded to clean everything and re-oil/lubricate everything (since its very old and who knows how long its been since it was last used). I made my way towards the e-unit but it never actuated when power was applied. I know the output voltage of the zw transformer that I have is variable (I believe 7-15VAC). I took the e-unit out, brought it to work, connected it to a 5VDC source and it actuated every time. I connected it to a 10VAC source and nothing every time. The part number is 671-50 (alt of 726-51) and the coil is 100-31. Its the one with the paper covering (and looks to be also between the coils as well). I have continuity between the input and output of the coil and I measured 13 ohms across it (I'm not sure if that's high or low, I'm relatively new to this). Any idea whats going on here and why it's not actuating under AC voltage when it looks like it clearly should be? Thanks!


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

If the e-unit cycles with DC, there should be no reason it does not work on AC voltage. Make sure the lever is making good contact with the contact board that grounds one end of the coil, and is not dirty or corroded. Try a higher voltage from the transformer; it should work. If it still does not work, it may be possible the coil may be partly shorted.

Larry


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Make sure gravity is working in your favor during the test, too! The e-unit must be vertical for the pendulum to drop with zero voltage.

E-unit lever "engaged" with good contact on the grommet, per comment above.

E-unit metal frame must be grounded.

TJ


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## DangerIsGo (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't know what I did, but I took the coil out, unsoldered it and tried to insert a coil from another engine. That was unsuccessful but then after putting the second engine back together, I realized that the coil wire is insulated....something I did not know (as I was just wire wrapping instead of soldering). I put back together the original e-unit, resoldered the coil down and tried it. Works great. Maybe a loose solder point? Not sure, but all is well! Now to get the motor lubricated/oiled and away I go 

EDIT: One interesting bit: 

http://www.justtrains.com/service/images/maint-5.gif

As you can see from the picture, I have 27 spots on my engine to lubricate and oil. The one in particular, to lubricate on the engine (bottom right) wants it in the hole on that little lip. My housing does not have such a hole. Its a flat lip. Should I not worry about lubricating that spot? Also, there was a lot of gunk in the motor (after removing the brush plate) which was cleaned off, should there be lubricant/grease/oil inside of there or should it be clean? Really, should there be anything between the brushes and the commutator?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Most guys run with the brushes/commutator super clean, but dry. On occassion, I've added a tiny drop of 5W-30 motor oil for noisy runners.

Many of us use the 5W-20 or -30 motor oil for all lube work. (No grease!) You should pretty much lube any moving parts, with the exception of the e-unit plunger and perhaps the brusher, per comment above. (Though I do sometimes cheat there, as noted.)

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have been oiling all the commutators on my locos for about 5 years. Really reduces the brush friction which is most of the friction of the loco. The only warning about doing this is to clean the commutator slots as the oil will release the dirt in the slots and it will foul the brushes. No big deal, just clean up the mess and you are good to go.

TJ, I agree with you about motor oil in preference to grease. I have had no trouble with it for 50 years. And, as you say, don't oil the E unit plunger.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Never thought about a drip of oil on the communicator, good tip tj. I have a noisy runner myself. I will try it.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Toss an atta-boy to Bruce (Servoguy), too ... I learned the motor oil and commutator tricks from him.

TJ


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