# Adjustments to Menards Box Cars



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

My introduction to Menards was about 2 years ago. After seeing John’s unit box car train at a North Penn O Gaugers open house, I got eight Menards Reading box cars and one Suzie Q. I liked the cars at first, (great price, good looks) but after some run time I noticed they tended to spark sometimes when going over switches and they would occasionally derail. Despite that, I got some long flat cars, a short flat car with tank and a hopper. The long flats behaved better than the box cars, the hopper a little worse and the short flat was much worse. I know that many folks run Menards cars without problems, but they were misbehaving on my Gargraves switches, so I stopped running all except the long flat cars. And I stopped buying them too.

This spring, I found that adjusting the gauge (distance between wheel flanges) and adding weight made a great improvement in behavior. I started out with the hopper and was so pleased with the results that I got another dozen of them, adjusted the gauge to 27-28 mm, blackened the wheels, added a few ounces of weight, and covered the plastic loads with anthracite. I also adjusted the gauge on the long flat cars and that was all they needed.

Last month, I got the box cars out of storage and took them apart, removed the trucks and adjusted the gauge to 27.5-28 mm. The box cars have the same trucks as the hoppers. For the hoppers, they are riveted to a plastic sub frame. For the box cars, they are attached to the undercarriage with a C clip. I applied 2 coats of Neolube to blacken the silvery wheels. I planned to add some weight, but the box cars weigh 15 ounces, exactly what a 10” car should weigh.

When I first ran them, they seemed to have gotten worse. Some of them kept picking the points at an old style Gargraves switch. I put them back in the storage box. GRJ suggested that 28 mm might be too wide a gauge and I thought about cutting it down a bit. Then I got some MTH premier reefers and they also picked the points at the same switch. The MTH cars are gauged at 27 mm. So, it seems I need to fiddle with the switch…or not run certain cars over it in the wrong direction.

The last few days, the temperature in the attic has been tolerable so I have been running the box cars quite a bit…everywhere except that switch…without problems. No sparks, no derailments. It’s nice to have them out of storage and back in the ready service roster.

One thing I didn’t do when I had them apart was to check for loose trucks. Some of the cars wobble. I’ll have take them apart again and change out the washers.


----------



## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Exactly how do you adjust the gauge?


----------



## Shawn91481 (Mar 20, 2016)

Fabforrest said:


> Exactly how do you adjust the gauge?


Wondering the same thing.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Gargraves switches are prone to sparking no matter who manufactures the freight cars. I have about a dozen switches on the layout, half are Ross 072 and half Gargraves 072 and 105. Sparking on the Gargraves, no sparking on the Ross.

Bill


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

For the box cars and the hoppers, I remove the wheel subassembly from the truck and use a Timko puller. For the long flat cars, the axles stay in the truck, you just have to remove the trucks from the cars and remove the plastic caps from the end of the axles.


----------



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

That makes three of us.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Gargraves switches are prone to sparking no matter who manufactures the freight cars. I have about a dozen switches on the layout, half are Ross 072 and half Gargraves 072 and 105. Sparking on the Gargraves, no sparking on the Ross.
> 
> Bill


No question that Ross is a better switch than Gargraves. They are much more forgiving of less than perfect cars. And the new style Gargraves with solid points are more forgiving than the old style with sheet metal points. I have found that better cars such as MTH and Atlas rarely give problems, but cars that are less than ideal will spark and sometimes derail. But making some minor adjustments to correct weight and gauge (and wobbling) make the cars behave.


----------



## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> For the box cars and the hoppers, I remove the wheel subassembly from the truck and use a Timko puller. For the long flat cars, the axles stay in the truck, you just have to remove the trucks from the cars and remove the plastic caps from the end of the axles.


This has to be incomplete. What do you do after using the puller or removing the end caps?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Forrest, one would presume after pulling the wheel out to the correct spacing, he puts the end caps back on, job done. I'm guessing he uses the Timko puller for that as well. Since he has an exposed axle end, he didn't have to disassemble the truck.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

OK let me go into more detail.
Measure the distance between flanges using a Vernier caliper. This can (and should) be done before you remove the trucks. If it is 27 mm or more, there is no need to adjust the gauge. If it’s less and the car is giving you trouble, proceed as follows:
1. First step is getting access to the end of the axle so you can apply the puller.
a. For the box car, remove the shell from the sheet metal chassis by removing four Philips screws. Then remove the truck assembly from the chassis by removing the C clip. For the hopper, remove the truck assembly from the car by removing the Philips screw. The wheel subassembly can be pried out of the truck frame by hand without removing the little screws. I had some hopper trucks with bad threads so I don’t recommend removing or loosening those little screws.
b. For the long flat car, remove the truck assembly from the car by removing the Philips screw. Then remove the end caps that simulate bearings. Don’t remove the axles from the truck. These are sprung trucks so trying to remove the axles (or I should say trying to reassemble the axles to the trucks) would not be fun.
2. Once you have access to the end of the axle, mount the puller. Move one wheel about half the needed increase, check with the calipers, then move the other wheel and check your final gauge with the caliper.
If I go too far, I push the wheel back with a gear pusher. If you don’t have a gear pusher, something could be rigged up using a vice and a nut. 
The end caps for the long flat cars can be replaced by hand after the gauge is adjusted.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have the wheel puller, where did you get the gear pusher?


----------



## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

I know this may sound odd but I have had only one problem with a car and it was a bad truck on a hopper. All my military cars have worked perfectly, maybe a wheel set here and there not in the truck but that is easily fixed.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have the wheel puller, where did you get the gear pusher?


That's from my 1:24 scale slot car days back in the 1960s. It was used to install gears on DC motor shafts.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like a handy tool. I'm actually thinking of trying to install worm gears on a couple of motor shafts. I'm still thinking on how that will be accomplished.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Looks like a handy tool. I'm actually thinking of trying to install worm gears on a couple of motor shafts. I'm still thinking on how that will be accomplished.


Here’s the one I have on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/i/263103977069?chn=ps&dispItem=1


This Parma press looks like little more than a C clamp, but it’s probably too small for an O gauge can motor.

http://parmapse.shptron.com/p/motor-pinion-gear-press?pp=15


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I wonder if it would be up to pressing a worm onto a shaft of a motor for O-gauge locomotives?


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Probably. They are made to press a pinion gear on a slot car motor shaft, so I'd bet they would press a worm gear on a train motor shaft.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

davidone said:


> I know this may sound odd but I have had only one problem with a car and it was a bad truck on a hopper. All my military cars have worked perfectly, maybe a wheel set here and there not in the truck but that is easily fixed.


There are a lot of folks here that have not had problems with their Menards cars. I think some track systems are more forgiving of less than ideal cars. You are running super O. Right? Maybe that switch style is more forgiving.


----------



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I have the measuring tool. I just need to get the wheel puller.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Timko wheel puller is a very nice tool, well worth the price.


----------



## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

The only Menard's cars I've ever had a problem with is the short flat car with the deuce and a half. They were constantly picking switches and de-railing. Two have gone home for replacements. Two are manageable. In my case, the gauge was set too wide and needed to come in. Needless to say however, my adjustments were less than spectacular due to the lack of a proper press. Bent a few axles. But will a 27mm width pick the points, or will a wider gauge pick them? In my case, wider seemed to be the issue...


----------



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

There's a fellow who was in the other dealer hall (not the Orange Hall) at York whom I think has the wheel pullers. He had a lot of modeling tools including a miniature Miter saw. I'll pay him a visit in October or just go to Harbor Freight in Benton Harbor, MI.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Trust me Denny, the Timko puller is the one to buy, it's a robust unit that's well built. Harbor freight doesn't have anything like the Timko puller.


----------



## cshabino (Jan 8, 2013)

Does anyone know if replacement wheel/truck assembly are available from Menards --ie if you bend the axil


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Volphin said:


> The only Menard's cars I've ever had a problem with is the short flat car with the deuce and a half. They were constantly picking switches and de-railing. Two have gone home for replacements. Two are manageable. In my case, the gauge was set too wide and needed to come in. Needless to say however, my adjustments were less than spectacular due to the lack of a proper press. Bent a few axles. But will a 27mm width pick the points, or will a wider gauge pick them? In my case, wider seemed to be the issue...


I have had good result with anything between 27 and 28 mm, but it is probably best to target 27.5 mm. Every MTH car I have measured was spot on 27 mm and they all track well. Menards cars have ranged from 25 to 27 with most coming in near 26. It’s those lower gauges that gave me problems with sparking and derailments. I think too wide a gauge will contribute to picking the points, but I attributed the recent problems I had with picking points to a fussy switch.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

cshabino said:


> Does anyone know if replacement wheel/truck assembly are available from Menards --ie if you bend the axil


I don’t think Menards has parts. When I received cars with bad trucks, I asked Menards to send replacement trucks, but instead they sent replacement cars. You can try asking Menards for replacements, but if you bent the axle, they might not feel obligated to send you a replacement car.


----------



## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> There are a lot of folks here that have not had problems with their Menards cars. I think some track systems are more forgiving of less than ideal cars. You are running super O. Right? Maybe that switch style is more forgiving.


Yes I do run superO track and switches. Although the switches are the weak part of the SuperO track system the menards cars seem to have no issues going thru them, never a derail. 

Before I run any car they are oiled, trucks and wheels checked.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

*Fixing the Wobble*

I mentioned in the first post that I didn’t fix the wobblers. I have been fiddling with that for the last few days. The first car I picked had one loose truck and one tight truck. Washer thickness was 1.2 mm on the wobbler and 1.45 mm on the tight truck. I went to the local hardware store and picked up some #10 washers. The #10 size washer has an ID of 7/32” (slightly smaller than the ID of the Menards washers), an OD of ½” and a specified thickness of 3/64” (1.19 mm), but I measured several in the store and thickness varied from 1 mm to 1.5mm. I picked out 20 that were around 1.45 mm.

In all, I replaced washers for 14 of the 18 trucks. The washers I removed varied in thickness from 1.0 mm to 1.3 mm. I used 1.45 mm thick washers to replace most of them and that size seemed to work well (essentially no wobble and the truck rotates freely).

If you are thinking about dewobbleing your cars, you may also want to check out a thread that L0stS0ul posted in February. He found Menards washers as low as .83 mm. He made several washers on his 3D printer and used mostly 1.25 mm for replacements. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=119754


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

*An easier way to fix the wobbles.*

I just fixed the wobble on some RMT box cars (which are the same as Menards box cars). Instead of getting slightly thicker washers, I made shims out of plastic. I cut pieces from a plastic milk bottle and punched a hole using a hole punch. The shims added just enough thickness to tighten up the truck and eliminate the wobble.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

*And Another Thing*

I noticed my new Menards REA box cars and 2 of 3 RMT box cars bounced around a bit when going over Gargraves switches. When one of them derailed I took a closer look. The brake cylinder/valve was contacting the switch points and, in some cases, getting snagged on them. The brake cylinder is rivetted to a tab on the sheet metal under carriage. The tab is bent 90 degrees from the vertical stiffener and in some cases, the tab is not bent enough so the cylinder hangs a bit lower. I never noticed this problem on my older Reading cars and I looked at one of them to see that the tab was bent closer to 90 degrees. Contact happens on the older style Gargraves switches with sheet metal points as well as the newer style with solid metal points. But I saw is no contact on a Ross switch. I tried bending the tab on one car with some pliers, but that didn’t help too much. I think I will just file the brake valve so that it clears.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmm... I have some of those cars, I'll have to see if it's a problem.


----------

