# Unknown HO Trolley



## timoudenhoven (Sep 27, 2013)

A buddy of mine picked up a ho trolley that we would like to paint up. Can anyone tell me about it and who might have ran it or who was the manufacturer? 

It is a die cast model and has a power truck. 

Thanks for the help.
Tim


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Looks like an old Bowser to me


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That type if car was built much heavier than the
typical street car in the very early 20th century.
Most likely it served on an interurban line connecting
cities by electric passenger service.

Don


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Good Call Bud!*



time warp said:


> Looks like an old Bowser to me


Found what looks like yours Tim on Evil Bay and time warp gets a kuddo for making the Bowser Call of the Day!:appl:
View attachment 197385


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I'd like to thank the Academy, and my producer without whome I could have never come this far. Good night.:laugh:


Actually, I think the eBay one is a Brill, and the other is Indiana Railroad. Both Bowser.
Bowser made 5 different trollies, IR, Brill, PCC, Jewett, and one other I can't remember. Why I remember this escapes me, I couldn't even remember to put gas in my Uplander Sunday. I'm as sharp as a sack of wet mice.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

No cigar McDaddy. The streetcar in your pic is
an original Perley Thomas New Orleans car, some
still running today on the St. Charles Ave. line.

It is far lighter in construction than the Interurban
in Tim's pic.

Don


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I'm afraid I must forfeit my award. I'm not sure if that is a Bowser I still haven't found a picture anything like that.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Thought I found it, Same window style and arrangement but it had a clerestory roof. Made by Suydam.
The search continues


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## timoudenhoven (Sep 27, 2013)

Thanks everyone who has taken a look at this, we appreciate it. See if anyone recognizes it. It is an interesting model.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

it is a brass model, not a Bowser, likely a Pacific Electric, I tend to lean on an Ohio electric model as well, but a little more research is needed


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

I am leaning on Oregon Electric, Illinois Traction System, a Niles built car somewhere, what throws me a bit is the arch roof instead of clerestory.

I have a few pokes around to do to narrow down.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

dinwitty said:


> I am leaning on Oregon Electric, Illinois Traction System, a Niles built car somewhere, what throws me a bit is the arch roof instead of Choelestery.
> 
> I have a few pokes around to do to narrow down.


This is tough! I thought I found it several times, but that arch roof is the klinker.
Where's Hegge when you need him!


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

After more browsing including some books, it looks more like a Texas Electric Combine, I saw a pic of a Lakeshore Electric having similar sides but a clerestory roof, like maybe later it was modernized. If the shell looks cast it might be resin or it might be a Shapeways creation, if you got it off ebay. I havent nailed the exact car yet but everything looks closer to the Texas Electric or related systems, they had their own car builder for their systems. Perhaps some of the earliest air conditioned cars as it is of course hot down there. The chassis looks custom built for the car.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

It sounds like we're talking about a dietary problem instead of a vehicle. Are you sure you don't me "clerestory" as in, "a raised construction having a row of windows or slits to admit light or air"?


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

here is an example I am looking at.










This is a TE car made into a self propelled car

This is the kind of leads I am getting, I think I have a TE book here but other books also, stuff that may not be online, but it would take a while, I'd like to nail your car perfectly.

yes clerestory, my mind was trying to spell out the name without consulting spelling.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

I may be narrowed to an Illinois Traction or Illinois Terminal car, and possibly made by Bill Clouser. Still poking....


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

dinwitty said:


> I may be narrowed to an Illinois Traction or Illinois Terminal car, and possibly made by Bill Clouser. Still poking....


You sound like me, I keep finding things that are close but not quite.
I'm digging through old magazines myself , web hasn't yielded much.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

does the shell seem to plastic or resin or cardboard? I have a few clues to check on.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

here is where I am at now, the car seems to be an Illinois Terminal inspired car, I have asked people on the RYPN board and asked someone from the Illinois Terminal historical society, he just replied there was never a door behind the motorman on the left. The Overhead pole latched in the middle is for ice scraping the wire (before the main pole strikes it). Detroit United Lines had cars like this also. 

For the arched windows if I deemed it IT, all of their cars had arched windows but were modded later blocking them out. 

I have scoured many books and pics already and the IT comes closest, but its not perfect. The maker of this car is still unknown, I will continue to keep my eye out if I nail this car down, I know there is more stuff to dig on, but life goes on for other demanding things here, but if it were my car I would paint it up Illinois Terminal pre-modded arch windows, make it a half fictionalized car number and party with that.

I have a South Shore car in brass and the maker boo booed the sides, its a half-combine, one side coach, other side combine, South Shore never had that. Instead of fixing it, I will give it a fictional number and call it a half combine they never had. Meh, it could still move the newspapers. 8-D


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Those suggesting your model is of an
Illinois Terminal car may be correct:

Likely the arch windows were
changed in this pic in the last years of IT.

Compare this:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/445523/

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Also, keep in mind that many manufacturers produce "mutts" -- cars and locomotives that don't exactly match any one prototype, but are close enough to stand in for several. This keeps production costs down. This may be especially true with a trolley, which is kind of a niche item in an already small market.


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## timoudenhoven (Sep 27, 2013)

Looks really like a pretty good match. Thanks so much for all of the help, my friend is very excited about all of the research. I will post a picture of it when we get it painted and decaled up. We are looking at doing it as Illinois Terminal. Thanks Much, Tim


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Good job, dinwitty! Thanks for sticking with it.:appl:


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## Freightliner (Jul 30, 2016)

The power truck is a Lindsay product.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

I emailed Merle Rice who does this

http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/?page_id=22

his comments were the details were rough compared to today.

This helps me timeline when this moday might have been done, the period of 1963-ish had a lot of brass traction. The design of this car goes to the 20's. At some time the curved windows were blocked off.

This makes me to look pre-1964 perhaps back into 50's, 40's so I will still poke on this, I know theres some IT books I have not seen yet. They might be here.

heres some sites you can poke at for some fun.

http://www.eastpenn.org/

http://www.cera-chicago.org/

http://www.shore-line.org/

http://hoseeker.net/interurban.html

side view of IRM's car shows the reverse pole fore ice scraping.

the model screams IT just the side windows say pre-modernizing.


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## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

http://www.pknd.com/CarKit_jewett_LVT_815.html










I just ran into this, sides almost perfect but roof/ends no.

A few other digs ran close like this, but nopers.


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