# A Cheap MTH CSX 9993 Diesel but I may have blown it up



## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

I found a 9993 CSX Diesel for $40. 
I was told the man passed away and left all his trains in amazing condition, etc... 

I know nothing about these MTH Proto-Sound trains. I got it home, set up a basic track with a 1033 Lionel controller. My son and I tried to run it and it sat in neutral, but the direction lever would not allow it to run. The Direction lever would turn the unit off.

I started reading up on the online manual at MTH and read they must have smoke oil in them or the unit would burn up. I also started reading about the battery and it needs to sit in neutral for 15 min to charge up. I put a half dropper of smoke in, and then noticed it leaked out. 

I took the cab off, only to realize there is no smoke unit! Now the engine is completely dead. I fear that the oil zapped the circuit board. 

Help?! 

Are all the wire nuts some sort of custom job in the unit? 

What can I do? - Replace the circuit board? If so, what kind of board is it and can I replace it easily without costing an arm and a leg?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

That looks to be 30-2275-1, with a 5 volt PS2 board produced in 2002. Don’t know if you cooked the board, but if the battery has never been changed, that could be the problem. The 5 volt boards have also been known to go bad. Make sure all the smoke fluid is cleaned off and the board is dry. You could try charging the battery per the manual and see if that helps, but I would not be optimistic if the battery has never been changed. If charging the existing battery doesn’t help, I would try a new battery. If that doesn’t help, you might need a new board.

If you want to get a new board, I don’t think you can get a new PS2 board. A PS3 upgrade kit is around $200 and cost to install it is around $100. The upgrade kit is to upgrade a conventional loco to a DCS loco and includes proto-couplers and speaker. Since you don’t need those, just the board may be a bit less.
The wire nuts don’t indicate a custom job. MTH uses wire nuts when they assemble the engine.

Even if it doesn’t work, you got a good deal for $40.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Just curious jj. If it doesn't have a smoke unit, then where did you put the smoke fluid?


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## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Just curious jj. If it doesn't have a smoke unit, then where did you put the smoke fluid?


I pulled the rectangle cap off the cover's top like it says in the instructions and added smoke oil. 

I sounded the horn, and then hit the direction lever and it went completely dead. 

I did a test with a 9v battery and nada. I think I made a very expensive mistake.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

One of the reasons I've learned to pop the shells off on all the "pre-owned" engines I purchase.

Hope you're able to get it sorted! :thumbsup:


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## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

Jeff T said:


> One of the reasons I've learned to pop the shells off on all the "pre-owned" engines I purchase.
> 
> Hope you're able to get it sorted! :thumbsup:


yea, learned that lesson the hard way. 

Would any other F40PH MTH train chassis or internal components work? I'm contemplating buying/gutting a running engine and getting this CSX back together. It might be cheaper than the parts prices I'm seeing. 

-JJ


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

jjwithers said:


> yea, learned that lesson the hard way.
> 
> Would any other F40PH MTH train chassis or internal components work? I'm contemplating buying/gutting a running engine and getting this CSX back together. It might be cheaper than the parts prices I'm seeing.
> 
> -JJ


First, I doubt you've blown it up. It may have been bad from the beginning - many old, discount price locos "in amazing condition" are. You never know what you are buying. 

On the other hand, if it was good when you got it, it is likely you did not do anything to damage it, I'd clean everything, replace the battery and try again. 

And in answer to your question, yes. Sort of. What I do in such situations - it is easier and I have done several times is buy another used loco (FP40 in this case, say with a cracked body or something - cheap), that does run and switch out the body, and not fiddle with repairing the one you have. 

Probably any other FP40 will fit if from the same line (i.e. the shell from a Premier FP40 will fit any other Premier FP40 chassis, a Railking will fit a Railking - probably, but they are unlike to fit, Premier on Railking or vice versa - That does not work usually). Best to memorize the locations and details of the underside (where the screws go, etc) that you saw when you removed the shell, take some measurements, then go to a swap meet/where you buy used locos and look for an MTH FPH 40 that runs and looks like the body will fit.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

jjwithers said:


> Would any other F40PH MTH train chassis or internal components work? I'm contemplating buying/gutting a running engine and getting this CSX back together. It might be cheaper than the parts prices I'm seeing.
> 
> -JJ


I did that with a Railking GP9. I bought a Reading GP9 at a great price, but it turned out the boards were bad. I searched for a running GP9 with a trashed shell for a few years. While I was searching, I removed the electronics and the motors and ran the Reading as a dummy unit. I eventually bought a new PL&E GP9 at a blowout price and switched shells.

That loco was $200 when new so putting in a new board for $300 doesn’t make much sense.

You could run the CSX as a dummy. At $40, that is still a good price for a dummy.

Another option is to find a low cost board to run it conventional.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There is a PS32 replacement board available for repairing units with the old boards, however, it will still end up being several hundred dollars to fix this.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

In light of what gunrunner just stated, I'm with Lee and Bob. From a cost perspective, maybe you'd be better off looking for another inexpensive powered FP40 and just use this one as a dummy.


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## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

Lehigh74 said:


> Another option is to find a low cost board to run it conventional.


What would be a low cost board? 

I'm looking at about $250 to fix this with PS3. ouch. 

I let it dry overnight and still no success. I threw in a 9v battery and the track power does not bring it back to life. It could have been the oil, it could have been that this train sat for a very long time. It had a significant layer of dust on it. It makes me feel better thinking of the latter. 

I'll keep my eye out for a Railking F40PH to replace it with but that doesn't seem much cheaper. 

Thanks to all who have responded. 

-JJ


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## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

Yellowstone Special said:


> In light of what gunrunner just stated, I'm with Lee and Bob. From a cost perspective, maybe you'd be better off looking for another inexpensive powered FP40 and just use this one as a dummy.


Without converting trucks, 

Is there an easy way to make these wheels in a true 'neutral' so there is free-play in them? Right now they are locked and only spin if the motors spin. 

I'm thinking, if I can 'unlock' the wheels make this unit a dummy for a while, and eventually find a MTH Railking F40PH donor, I'll try to repair this unit.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

jjwithers said:


> Without converting trucks,
> 
> Is there an easy way to make these wheels in a true 'neutral' so there is free-play in them? Right now they are locked and only spin if the motors spin.
> 
> I'm thinking, if I can 'unlock' the wheels make this unit a dummy for a while, and eventually find a MTH Railking F40PH donor, I'll try to repair this unit.


To make it a dummy, you just need to remove the motors. Remove the screw on the bottom of the truck and the motor will come out.

Also a good idea to remove the wires from the pickups.

I removed all the electronics when I made my GP9 into a dummy.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

jjwithers said:


> What would be a low cost board?
> -JJ


You can get buck converters to convert AC to DC on ebay for a few dollars. That would only let you run in one direction and there would be no sound.


There are probably boards out there for a few bucks more that would let you run in conventional (forward/neutral/reverse). You might be able to get a Williams board. That would give you conventional operation and rudimentary sound.


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## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

Lehigh74 said:


> You can get buck converters to convert AC to DC on ebay for a few dollars. That would only let you run in one direction and there would be no sound.
> 
> 
> There are probably boards out there for a few bucks more that would let you run in conventional (forward/neutral/reverse). You might be able to get a Williams board. That would give you conventional operation and rudimentary sound.


Something like this?:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Williams-0...333096849861?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

My 2 cents, if you have no response check the obvious, is power getting where it needs to go? Do you get any response at all? Lights? Anything? Also, A reverse board from Dallee or Cruise Commander from ERR will get it operational for a whole lot less than several hundred dollars. I would consider all of that before going the turn it into a dummy route. Of course if you do opt for the turn it into a dummy you might just recoup some of your $$ selling the motor(s).


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

jjwithers said:


> Without converting trucks,
> 
> Is there an easy way to make these wheels in a true 'neutral' so there is free-play in them? Right now they are locked and only spin if the motors spin.
> 
> I'm thinking, if I can 'unlock' the wheels make this unit a dummy for a while, and eventually find a MTH Railking F40PH donor, I'll try to repair this unit.


You could make it into a dummy after all efforts to power it up again within reasonable cost have been exhausted.

I made a dummy out of a powered diesel once and agree with Bob. By removing the motors you would "unlock" the wheels leaving them moving freely. Removing the center rail pickups as well would help make it even more free rolling. But use care in removing the motors and their wiring so they could be used again if possible.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Would it be possible to run the motors using the same fed that a working unit has? That is, adding a tether from the new unit to this one paralleling the good units motor feed to the motors?

Or would that be too much of a load for good units PCB?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

jjwithers said:


> Something like this?:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Williams-0...333096849861?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


Yes. Looks like that would give you conventional operation, but no sound.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Removing the motors is actually a two step affair. You remove the motor mount and motor with the single screw under the truck. Then, take the motor mount off the motor with the two hidden screws. Finally, put the motor mount back on the truck to attach it back to the chassis, job done.


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## Matt_GNo27 (Feb 7, 2016)

If you just want to run it conventionally, the Lionel reverse unit, part #0107-100 (replaces part #103-100), should work, yes? They are available from Jeff Kane/Train Tender for a very modest amount. (I use one to run my K-Line MP-15DC, with ERR RailSounds.)


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

bad batteries are a major source of protosounds problems. i would get a new battery and go from there, good luck! keep us posted.


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## jjwithers (Nov 16, 2017)

carinofranco said:


> bad batteries are a major source of protosounds problems. i would get a new battery and go from there, good luck! keep us posted.


Wouldn't I see life if I used a household 9V to test with? 
I unplugged everything from the board except the wires that include the battery, track/truck power, and 5V chip, put in a 9V battery, and I got nothing.
Engine is completely dead. 

I think I will convert it to a Williams board since it will run off an old Lionel transformer.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The PS/2 locomotives will power up and go into idle with no battery, so the battery isn't the problem. I suspect the board simply died.


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