# Kadee couplers on new purchased cars



## piperman (Jan 17, 2015)

I am confused by the need to put new Kadee couplers on new cars.

Does any car supplier sell cars with the Kadee couplers so I don't have to fool around buying new couplers? The coupler I seem to hear that is good is a Kadee #5.

I only have 4 engines so far and I have put Kadee #28 Magne-Matic, multi purpose, insulated couplers on them to allow me to run them in tandem.

My wish is to now go and buy X number of cars c/w couplers to allow me to run 2 trains without having to replace or install a bunch of couplers.

Your input would be appreciated.

Regards
Piperman


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

To a large extent, you are a victim of hype. Yes, Kadee and their all-metal copycats (Walthers ProtoMAX) are the best available couplers.

However, as long as the car comes with knuckle couplers (that is, Kadee compatible) there is no need to convert them immediately. Most models that you buy new today will come with a compatible knuckle coupler. The issue with cheap knockoffs is that the shank and shaft are made of plastic, as are the centering springs in most cases. Eventually, the plastic parts with deform, bend or break, causing random uncouplings and derailments. If the car comes with the older hook-horn couplers, then I would advise replacing those immediately.

My own policy is to leave whatever coupler comes with the car on it until it starts causing trouble. THEN I replace it.


----------



## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

piperman said:


> The coupler I seem to hear that is good is a Kadee #5.


All I have to add is this - the #5 is just a Kadee reference number, not necessarily the "quality". If you get into doing coupler conversions using Kadees, you will become familiar with other Kadee numbers that indicate the shank length and whether it is under-, center- or over-set.


----------



## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

Just so you know, not all Kadee shanks are metal. The 20 and thirty series are not. The need for insulated couplers has lessened with recent roling stock. Most couplers are encased in a plastic pocket. The likely hood of a short caused by the coupler in that case is remote. Most will be fine with a #5, 58, 148, or 158. A few of the others are useful as well, but newer rolling stock are designed to use the medium center shank couplers.

Should you change the stock couplers to Kadees? It depends on what you have on hand. If your like me, I always have some of most common types. So I change before the first check out test. But that is my position.

Almost every slightly used recent item I get has a common fault, a broken coupler or couplers. Kadees will be broken on some cars. The ones that have good couplers are almost always the ones with Kadees. 

If your going to run long trains on grades, then the need to change will be sooner than later.
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com


----------



## piperman (Jan 17, 2015)

*Kadee couplers*

Thanks for the info.
But I still would like to know is there a brand of cars that have good metal couplers that I won't have to fool around with. I have a medical problem that makes me shake and playing around with the tiny screws etc. is a big problem.
Thanks again
Piperman


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

piperman said:


> Thanks for the info.
> But I still would like to know is there a brand of cars that have good metal couplers that I won't have to fool around with. I have a medical problem that makes me shake and playing around with the tiny screws etc. is a big problem.
> Thanks again
> Piperman


I believe ExactRail cars come with Kadees....you may choke on the price of the cars though.

I buy Kadees in bulk to bring the price down and replace them as I get around to it.

I will say this - Intermountain, ExactRail, etc. are some REALLY nice cars even outside of the fact they come with Kadees...the detail is incredible.


----------



## union pacific 844 (Jan 29, 2013)

i don't change them until the stock ones on my cars and locos brakes first


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Intermountain uses Kadees on all their cars, as does Tangent, but again, those cars are not cheap.......


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> Intermountain uses Kadees on all their cars, as does Tangent, but again, those cars are not cheap.......


Yes, those prices are enough to make you shake!


----------



## lajrmdlr (Apr 25, 2014)

Don't use the old Kadee #5s anymore since they came out w/ the "whisker" couplers. They are much easier to install & work just the same. And they also can be purchased in bulk. Just in case there's an oddball car to convert look here: 
http://www.kadee.com/conv/convpl.htm


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

At recent train shows the vendors are offering more and more
'used' cars that come equipped with Kadee or other knuckle
couplers and in the 4 and 5 $ price range. Almost 90 % of
the rolling stock on my layout is from the used market. If
there is a train show at a city near you by all means go 
equipped with some Cash, they don't take credit cards.

Don


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

In addition to the coupler information given above, Walthers Proto and Mainline equipment comes with their ProtoMax couplers installed. These are the same functionality and quality as the Kadees.

Bachmann locos come with their "EZ Mate" couplers, an inferior plastic version, and Athearn products come with McHenry couplers, also inferior plastic. Not sure who makes the ones that come on Atlas equipment, but they are also plastic. 

If you're going to insist on buying equipment with only genuine Kadees, you're going to pay top dollar. Physical condition or not, and my personal opinion is that you're going to limit yourself too much by doing so.

Most of the plastic ones work just fine for some period of time. Not counting hook and horn conversions, which were mostly on my older stuff, I've only had to replace perhaps 10% of my couplers over the 12 years or so I've been back in the hobby.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Not sure who makes the ones that come on Atlas equipment, but they are also plastic


New Atlas rolling stock is equipped with AccuMate couplers, made by Accurail......they are indeed plastic; not bad, but not the same operation characteristics as Kadee.....




CTValleyRR said:


> Walthers Proto and Mainline equipment comes with their ProtoMax couplers installed. These are the same functionality and quality as the Kadees


Yes, the new Walthers Proto equipment comes with Protomax couplers, but beware, the older Proto 2000 equipment, which were excellent and are what Walthers based the new Proto equipment on, comes with plastic couplers; same operation as Kadees, but plastic....


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Hardly a switching operating session goes by without losing
another spring from the knuckle couplers. I am
completely out of springs. My next project is
to put a tiny drop of super glue on all of the springs to keep them where
they belong.

Don


----------



## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

DonR said:


> Hardly a switching operating session goes by without losing
> another spring from the knuckle couplers. I am
> completely out of springs. My next project is
> to put a tiny drop of super glue on all of the springs to keep them where
> ...


Don we need to get together - switching sessions are not my thing, as a consequence I rarely ever lose one - and have so many of those dang things I have started to toss them.


----------



## microbuss (Mar 13, 2015)

I actually took a slightly new ExactRail boxcar & de-converted it to XF couplers hehe


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

JNXT 7707 said:


> Don we need to get together - switching sessions are not my thing, as a consequence I rarely ever lose one - and have so many of those dang things I have started to toss them.


I appreciate the thought but they're cheap at the local hobby shop.

I have at least one bad order car short a spring right now.

Don


----------



## Aberdeen (Mar 23, 2015)

To get my initial rolling stock. I (the latest newbe) bought several larger "lots" on Ebay. About 25% had no serviceable coupler, 25% had serviceable Kadee looking couplers, and 50% had serviceable Texas couplers (hook'en horns). These "lot" purchases were probably a mistake. But It has helped me learn.

I wanted to be a locomotive engineer, but ended up in the car department.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Potentially an expensive way to learn.

I'd invest in a big supply of Kadees or equivalent and replace them as they need replacing (obviously, your Texas couplers need to go ASAP). As long as you're replacing, though, get rid of the plastic ones and go with metal.


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Most RTR HO cars now come with Kadee compatible couplers, but the best hands down are the metal Kadee's. As already mentioned, a small number of companies sell their cars with Kadee's from the factory, which include the newer Intermountain cars (past 10 years), ExactRail and Tangent. Yes, they are among the more expensive RTR HO models out there but basically you get what you pay for. The exception is Athearn Genesis, which cost more than Intermountain, on the average, but include plastic McHenry couplers, which are inferior to Kadee's, much inferior.

Maybe the higher prices are enough to make the above member shake, but the models are nicely detailed. The Intermountain are the least expensive of the Kadee equipped brands, and among the ExactRail line, there are more basic models which cost less, and those with more detail which cost more - keep in mind.

Anyway, as most RTR cars do come with Kadee compatible couplers there isn't the "need" to replace couplers if you don't want. But be aware, the plastic couplers that come on many RTR cars may not be reliable. For example, I took 20 Athearn coal cars and ran them and they randomly uncoupled at different points in the train because the plastic couplers would not remain closed due to fatigue of plastic spring, so I will have to replace them all with reliable Kadee's if I don't want this to keep happening.

So even though when the patent expired on the Kadee coupler introducing the plastic clones, that didn't necessarily make everything wonderful, but merely delayed replacing the couplers on many cars.


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Interesting to read everyone's comments. All seem to universally condemn the lookalikes. I would concur with that, just seems very odd that nobody has managed to come up with a product that can equal the original Kadee. I'm sure they are rubbing their hands together as they will be selling even more than before as well as laughing their heads off at the pretenders to their throne!

Thought I would add that Kadees were the main reason I started modelling US trains. Their reliability, prototypical look, remote uncoupling and ease of use were all plus points.


----------



## microbuss (Mar 13, 2015)

well the only reason for so many Kadee copies is the Patent Copyright Date ran out & BOOM 100s flooded the market
Same thing happened a few years ago with Lego Bricks


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I think we all know the reason why the copies came onto the market, all seem to be inferior though rather than someone coming up with something to equal or even better the original. Interesting I bought a Lego clone last week made specially for Walmart and while you wouldn't think you could make something as simple as a plastic building brick worse it felt hard and nasty. The bricks couldn't even hold together well.


----------



## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

No argument on the universal superiority of Kadees. The 'clones' do have their place though, even the old horn-hooks - it all comes down to how they are used.
For example I have a set of old Mantua aluminum streamliners - I retained their horn-hooks (except for the one end of the baggage car) because they will never run with any other passenger cars. And FWIW, horn-hooks are operationally foolproof. Ugly as sin, yes - but coupler height matching is not an issue!
I try to keep a supply of Kadee over-, center- and under-set couplers in my toolbox, but plastic McHenrys are in there too, to use as a 'stand-in' or 'good-enough' on a car that I know will not get used much, or if it does, will be in a short consist or MOW train. 
It's kind of the same philosophy I have with plastic vs. metal wheelsets - I try to have everything with metal because I think they are superior, but in some cases I have to admit they are overkill. 
Just another perspective


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I keep a supply of the plastic versions of Kadees and plastic Accurail wheel sets to swap out when I sell or trade in a car. Always keep the good stuff........


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Cycleops said:


> Interesting to read everyone's comments. All seem to universally condemn the lookalikes. I would concur with that, just seems very odd that nobody has managed to come up with a product that can equal the original Kadee. I'm sure they are rubbing their hands together as they will be selling even more than before as well as laughing their heads off at the pretenders to their throne!
> 
> Thought I would add that Kadees were the main reason I started modelling US trains. Their reliability, prototypical look, remote uncoupling and ease of use were all plus points.


I don't know if Kadee is rubbing their hands together and getting rich. Many people assume that about model manufacturers but as Jason Schron (Rapido), Blaine Hadfield (ExactRail) will tell you they aren't getting rich at it.

As for a product that can equal the original Kadee, I submit Walthers ProtoMax are metal, have the closure spring and look very similar to the Kadee #5 and are probably as close as you are going to get. My Walthers RTR freight cars produced in the last 6 years (approx.) have come with their Protomax couplers - I don't plan on swapping them out unless I have problems with them.

There rest which are plastic are not as good, but if they have the closure spring like the Kadee's, then at least you are likely to avoid the uncouplings due to a fatigued plastic closer finger spring.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with Riogrande that the Protomax couplers are the equal of Kadees, although they don't come in as many varieties.

Athearn products come with inferior plastic McHenry couplers, because both are divisions of Horizon Hobby Group. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Since this thread started, I have been paying more attention to what products come with what, and according to the product reviews in the latest issue of Model Railroader, both MTH locomotives and Tangent Scale Models rolling stock come with genuine Kadees.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It should probably not be a shock that the "best" couplers come with the more pricey cars......actually, that makes the most sense.....to me anyway.....


----------



## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> I agree with Riogrande that the Protomax couplers are the equal of Kadees, although they don't come in as many varieties.


That's really Kadee's ace card in my view - it's all the many varieties. Long, medium, short...over, center, under. Just to name a few. Really makes doing coupler conversions on older equipment relatively easy. And again, I would pick the metal over the plastic but for my applications the plastic Kadees are more than adequate.


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

JNXT 7707 said:


> That's really Kadee's ace card in my view - it's all the many varieties. Long, medium, short...over, center, under. Just to name a few. Really makes doing coupler conversions on older equipment relatively easy. And again, I would pick the metal over the plastic but for my applications the plastic Kadees are more than adequate.


Kadee make plastic couplers? Or do you mean plastic shank with metal head?


----------



## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

riogrande said:


> Kadee make plastic couplers? Or do you mean plastic shank with metal head?


Kadee describes the couplers they offer as "plastic" and "metal", so I assume they mean the whole coupler. Looking at it, not sure how they would make it with a plastic shank and metal head?


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

JNXT 7707 said:


> Kadee describes the couplers they offer as "plastic" and "metal", so I assume they mean the whole coupler. Looking at it, not sure how they would make it with a plastic shank and metal head?


I don't know how it is constructed, but the plastic shank Kadee has a metal head. It has been recommended for Athearn blue box loco's where the mounting against the metal frame would create a short with all metal (standard) Kadee's. 

In all my life I have never heard of a plastic head Kadee - if the exist, this is the first I've heard of it. Kadee's are so durable because of the metal construction - and other than the plastic shank version, the rest are all metal.


----------



## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

riogrande said:


> I don't know how it is constructed, but the plastic shank Kadee has a metal head. It has been recommended for Athearn blue box loco's where the mounting against the metal frame would create a short with all metal (standard) Kadee's.
> 
> In all my life I have never heard of a plastic head Kadee - if the exist, this is the first I've heard of it. Kadee's are so durable because of the metal construction - and other than the plastic shank version, the rest are all metal.


riogrande - not necessarily disputing you, but the Kadee site lists the HO couplers as either plastic or metal. Larger scales such as O has the description more specific, i.e. plastic head or metal head. So going by their website it's not clear. I'll say that all the HO couplers certainly _look_ like metal.
http://kadee.com/htmbord/coupler.htm


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

JNXT 7707 said:


> That's really Kadee's ace card in my view - it's all the many varieties. Long, medium, short...over, center, under. Just to name a few. Really makes doing coupler conversions on older equipment relatively easy. And again, I would pick the metal over the plastic but for my applications the plastic Kadees are more than adequate.


That's true, and it would take a manufacturer a long time to replicate the breadth of Kadee's range. Most just want to put a cheap and cheerful coupler on their cars to save a bit of money. It amazes me why they don't put proper ones on, how much can it cost? A few cents, even if it's a dollar I think people would be prepared to fork out for that.


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

The website probably is generalizing about the materials used. Plastic is used for the coupler pockets, screws and in the case of one coupler, the shank (which there may be a few varieties such as long, medium, short, center, under and over). The plastic shank Kadee's are an exception to Kadee's all metal line, and offered because there was a need for it with the popularity of Athearns blue box loco's for many years. Kadee probably maintains them on in their catelog because there are still alot of Athearn blue box loco's on the secondary market.

People continue to buy Kadee's long after the advent of the plastic clones beause they are metal and are far superior - go onto any major forums with experienced modelelers and you will get snowballed by the responses regarding them - trust me, I've been on train forums since 1994 and it is universal.

@Cycleops, if you are amazed at why people don't use proper couplers on all their HO freight cars, it's usually an economic situation. Wouldn't you think given unlimited money, many more would convert all their cars? Most would and I certainly would. Let me run the numbers since you argue cost shouldn't be a factor; I have a few hundred cars that still need converting but at $36 a bulk pack (discount price) x 8; nearly $300, thats a lot of clams to have to layout while I also want to spend on new engines and rolling stock that comes out at considerably higher prices, buy track, materials, decoders, etc. etc. Are you still amazed? Ok ... yeah, not everyone has unlimited cash although in prinicple I certainly agree with you. workin on it!


----------



## microbuss (Mar 13, 2015)

I actually have been de-Kadee-ing a few of my cars I get 
I did that to a ExactRail ad car


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

microbuss said:


> I actually have been de-Kadee-ing a few of my cars I get
> I did that to a ExactRail ad car


I am assuming it's because you prefer the standard head to the semi-scale or whateer they call the closer to scale coupler?


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

riogrande said:


> @Cycleops, if you are amazed at why people don't use proper couplers on all their HO freight cars, it's usually an economic situation. Wouldn't you think given unlimited money, many more would convert all their cars? Most would and I certainly would. Let me run the numbers since you argue cost shouldn't be a factor; I have a few hundred cars that still need converting but at $36 a bulk pack (discount price) x 8; nearly $300, thats a lot of clams to have to layout while I also want to spend on new engines and rolling stock that comes out at considerably higher prices, buy track, materials, decoders, etc. etc. Are you still amazed? Ok ... yeah, not everyone has unlimited cash although in prinicple I certainly agree with you. workin on it!


I was referring to having Kadees supplied on new cars, not converting existing ones. The cost must be minimal but I guess the mannufactuers want to squeeze every last cent out to increase their margins. Strangely I got a Con-Cor diesel recently which had Kadee's and they are thought of as a budget brand.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Speaking of Kadee couplers, True Line Trains recently released a car, and they didn't have any couplers installed, or even included! Sounds like a quality control a problem.....

http://www.truelinetrains.ca/home/news/couplerswedontneednostinkingcouplers


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

I agree, for the minor increase in cost, companies like Atlas and Athearn really should include Kadee's. The inferior plastic clones they include detract from otherwise very nice models.

One of the reasons I have a lot of models to convert is I have accumulated quite a few Athearn RTR Thrall coal gones (formerly produced by MDC in kit form) and they came with the McHenry clones. I took 20 of them, brand new - never ran - and ran them on a modular layout. During the couple hour session, the train uncoupled randomly in verious parts of the train when stopped and restarted. These inferior couplers had plastic finger closure springs which become fatigued while in the box for a number of years, and would not reliably stay closed. That would never happen with KD's which have real metal closure springs.

I'm sure you are right - the manufacturers are trying to find ways of squeezing costs so they include cheap clones. It isn't all high end RTR freight cars that include KD's. Intermountains RTR line is what I would consider a line of fairly well detailed models that do include KD's, and the street price is around $26-30 per car. That isn't cheap sure, but considering best by Tangent and ExactRail sell for around $40-46 per car, the Intermountain cars are pretty nice now adays. I try to collect a realistic mix of 1970's and 80's rolling stock for my RR, so I have examples from nearly all the brands including Atlas, Intermountain, Walthers, KATO, ExactRail, Tangent, Athearn/Genesis, Concor, MDC, Accurail, E&C, Front Range, McKean and a few others. About the only brands I still don't have are Branchline and Kadee rolling stock, but plan on adding them eventually.

I know Concor used to be considered a budget brand, but in the past 7 or 8 years they have added some newer products to their line which are not budget - but fairly faithful replicas of some unique and interesting trains.


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Speaking of Trueline, they do seem to be Canadian prototypes, but they make a nice bulkhead flat car - I may have to hunt one down at some point as my RR ran lumber in the mix. They appear to be nice cars, although what really hope gets produced are some more accurate 1970's bulkhead flat cars - my Athearn 60' bulkheads, while ok stand-in's, they are not an accurate match for any real cars.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

riogrande said:


> About the only brands I still don't have are Branchline and Kadee rolling stock, but plan on adding them eventually


Just a side-note.....I do believe the Branchline brand was acquire by Atlas....Atlas's latest releases of passenger cars and some boxcars are in fact Branchline, with refinements and Atlas packaging.....nice cars

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/hohwpassenger.html#.VRrRtnrnbCN

http://www.atlasrr.com/hofreight/hobranchlineboxcars.htm


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Yes, thats my understanding also. I may look for some a few Branchline kits at train shows since I'm trying to beef up my 1970's freight cars.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

There's still lots of Branchline cars out there to be had, they made a lot (built & kits), and they were very nice....


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

I was avoiding kits for a while mainly to reduce my back log, but the do appear to be nice. The trick will be to match a few up to some prototypes - plenty of foobies out there but some are good matches as well. If you know of any which are good 50' box car matches to the real thing, do tell. One I've seen in photo's around Denver were the green CB&Q with a horizonal wide stripe - cream colored I think. But many others I'm sure.


----------



## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

riogrande said:


> The website probably is generalizing about the materials used. Plastic is used for the coupler pockets, screws and in the case of one coupler, the shank (which there may be a few varieties such as long, medium, short, center, under and over). The plastic shank Kadee's are an exception to Kadee's all metal line, and offered because there was a need for it with the popularity of Athearns blue box loco's for many years. Kadee probably maintains them on in their catelog because there are still alot of Athearn blue box loco's on the secondary market.


Thanks for explaining that. I never knew the rationale of the plastic in the Kadees - that's interesting. 

I have been working on converting all my rolling stock to Kadees over the years but as you described, it can get a bit pricey when you have a lot to convert. Getting there slowly though


----------



## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

My preference is definitely Kadee. By the way, apparently Fox Valley also has Kadee couplers on their cars. I have veru few freight cars from the east coast and order a Fox Valley B&O wagon top car and it came with Kadees. 

I started accumulating my freight equipment over 25 years ago, most of them being Athearn blue box cars because at the time, they were among the better ones available. A lot of them were undecorated that I custom painted for my freelance railroad and a number were done with dry transfers. 

I bought Kadees in bulk packs and all of them are still in service with very few if any problems. The few pieces of freight equipment I have bought recently have been Kadee cars with the exception of the one fox valley car. 

Locomotives are a different story. The majority og my locomotives have been around for decades, original Atlas Alco units, but over the years I have picked op a few new ones that I have been able to find painted for the Milwaukee Road and the Northern Pacific. These did come with plastic knuckle couplers and they were changed over to KadeesThe draw bar pull on a locomotive is probably the heaviest that there will be, especially if a long train is being pulled. I have a number of out of state model RR friends that I visit on road trips and in a number of cases they do the same thing. Pulling long heavy trains on their home and club layouts have caused failure in some of the plastic couplers. 

I recently picked up a few bulk packs of the Kadee #158 wisker couplers. I like the smaller closer to scale size of them and will probably replace any couplers wit them when car maintenence become necessary.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

riogrande said:


> If you know of any which are good 50' box car matches to the real thing, do tell. One I've seen in photo's around Denver were the green CB&Q with a horizonal wide stripe - cream colored I think


Atlas did that car back in 2012, but it was RTR, as opposed to a kit. As far as I can tell, it was pretty much bang-on to the real thing.
This car is still available from various retailers if you search around.

As for couplers, Atlas uses Accumate couiplers from Accurail on their RTR cars....very different operation as opposed to Kadee type.....I change all mine over to Kadees.....

Here's a pic of the car:


----------



## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Chet - all that is great info for the for the new guys! I too have had issues with the plastic couplers on my RTR Athearn tunnel motors (for example) - replacement is needed there for reliability. Thanks for the reminder about the Fox Valley, I only have one of them but they make nice cars, need to get a few more.

Hobo, thanks for the reminder on the Atlas Burlington box car - I'll have to keep any eye out for one at the next train show along with the Branchline kits. Mainly I'm trying to avoid foobies - ie plastic HO cars that are painted for RR's that never owned them. Interestingly, here is a photo with the road number Atlas used:










This one is a better match:


----------

