# O-Gauge Members, Say Thank You to Country Joe



## Guest (Jul 31, 2019)

Country Joe has been one of the best contributors to the O-Gauge topic for the MTF. He adds greatly to the enjoyment of the members in a thoughtful, positive, and very friendly manner. This week he started a thread saying "goodbye" and gave his personal reasons for coming to this conclusion. Most would have swept their feelings under the rug and quietly left, but not Joe. He showed *great courage* by standing up for what he believes. There are a lot of followers in this world, but not as many who will stand up for what they believe. That simple but powerful act is worth of a big thank you for giving us all a wake up call. 

The forum is a very fragile place. We are indeed fortunate to have many participants on the O-Gauge topic making it the biggest by far within the MTF community. Yes, all members are considered equally, but let's be frank, the frequent informed daily contributions that Joe posts make us a much better forum. We lose the Joe's of this world, we lose a lot. This point should be obvious after the past few days.

The points that Joe made were accentuated by forum Member Big Crab Cake who posted:

*"There are 36 different sub-forums on the MTF. Most of them have single-digit viewers at any given time. There aren’t enough Members to support that many sub-forums. The result is that each sub-forums becomes more like a private Chat Room at best, but more often just a place to post something that few will ever see. 

No matter how well intentioned moving a thread to Union Station might be, the reality is that the thread will go unnoticed. 

The fact is that Union Station has Month old threads on the first page. The General Model Train Discussion page 1 has threads that are 2 months old. And those are the most prolific of the non-gauge specific pages. The most pathetic page of all is the Oxford & District Model Railway Club page with 4 threads total, 3 from 2011 and the most recent from 2013.

There are too many sub-divisions in the MTF Community and that is bad for participation. It’s no surprise that people have posted threads with little or no response. Moving threads is unproductive unless they are truly offensive. If someone will be irreparably harmed by reading a “Happy Birthday” thread or an “I saw a Big Boy” thread or a “Merry Christmas” thread then all they have to do is skip it. It’s not they difficult. The O scale sub-forum is more than big enough to handle some personal threads. They add a lot to the experience. 

The best thing this Forum has going for it is the Community atmosphere. I for one have benefited from the many great tips and ideas posted in these pages, most of which I can’t remember at all. What I do remember is the guy who likes passenger trains and whose favorite color is yellow. The same guy who opens his doors to anyone with a love for trains. I remember the retired shop teacher and his wife who may just be the nicest people I’ve ever meet. I remember the guy in Cockeysville, MD who welcomed my wife and me into his home to meet other model train friends. I remember the Flyers fan in San Diego who comes to the East coast twice a year and splits his time between York and Philadelphia. I remember the Awesome friend from Tennessee who volunteered to give a presentation on 6 hours notice when then MTF York guest speaker backed out and I remember praying for his sick mother. I remember the friend who posed in the MTF York photo with his brother in what turned out to be the last photo of them together before his brother passed away. There are many more, but mostly I remember the outpouring of support two years ago when I nearly died in surgery. The kind posts made a difference. At least they did to me. No one learned anything about trains from the memories I mentioned. They technically don’t belong on the O Scale sub-forum, but they are the very reason I love it here and why I keep coming back. This forum thrives on Community, not train facts. The train facts are just the common interest that brings everyone together in the first place. The Community is why we stay.
**
**Breaking up that Community is why we leave!" 
*
Joe, again, thank you for your loyalty, thank you for being a good friend, and thank you for what you do for us O-Gauge guys. Priceless.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Country Joe, don't go


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2019)

*I believe we will see Joe again.* All he wanted was the MTF and especially the O-Gauge topic to go back to where it has been for the past several years. A place that we could say Happy Birthday, Happy Anniversary, get well when our members were ill, or in other words, the friendly place most of us loved. What in the world is wrong with that.

Being friendly made us where we are today and it is does not have to be 100% of the content all about trains all the time.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Hmmmm. The old saying goes, _Be careful what you wish for_ comes to mind. I hope Joe comes back, but now if he does it invalidates his position of leaving forever. Oh well, like I said I hope he comes back to join us but I’ll enjoy reading about model trains of all sizes. And all other posts too. It seems with less moderation, batten down the hatches! I’ll still have fun.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

We have to start working together. We need to make this a place where we can be civilized. Soon we will be getting more members from OGR. I saw on a facebook group a response that someone got from Mr. Arnold and we have to be friendly to one another. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The 0 section can return to what it was, and post whatever interests you. There is no active moderation being done. Admin duties are now gone away, for as long as John decides, and I will no longer do any moderating, as the two most active moderators.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I enjoy Joe’s posts and will miss having him as a contributor, but I must say, his “Goodbye” thread read to me like an ultimatum and if I had the thankless job of a moderator, I would be more than a bit insulted.

I think we owe a bigger debt of gratitude to gunrunnerjohn. I’m afraid that this and maybe a few other tiffs convinced him to retire as moderator. Just glad to see that he is still contributing.

_Life is very short, and there's no time
For fussing and fighting, my friend
Lennon/McCartney_


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I’m wondering if this topic should be under O Gauge or in Union Station ?


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

teledoc said:


> The 0 section can return to what it was, and post whatever interests you. There is no active moderation being done. Admin duties are now gone away, for as long as John decides, and I will no longer do any moderating, as the two most active moderators.


Moderation and Admin duties are important. I understand the recent conflict. However, we are playing with toys and we are adult members of a community. I wish we could resolve these issues in adult fashion. Country Joe's leaving was a statement. Couldn't it have been resolved by private messaging? Now that John and Teledoc are hibernating and have opened the gates, what is going to happen if some jack#*! starts posting insane comments? Who will be able to delete that kind of behavior? I hope this will be resolved in a friendly amicable solution and return to having trusted competent moderators.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I owned a 71 Buick GS and belonged to the V8Buick forum. 

Like every forum they had pages of subtopics, but the area that had the most posts was "The Bench". It was the hi, how are you section. The Buick guys got together once a year in Bowling green, KY to race at Beech Bend. The Bench was an area to stay in touch with one another.

IMHO an area to chat with friends will help the forum. I often felt OGR could also use such an area, but I've been chastised here for mentioning OGR.

The Bench
Pull up some pine, and let's talk it out. Anything goes here, as long as it "jives" with the tone of this board, which is family oriented, and is Buick related.
Discussions: 72,100 Messages: 875,681


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Just my opinion but privately owned board. This is not you know anything goes here...


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Your a good guy JOE!!!! We all know it!!!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Wood said:


> Now that John and Teledoc are hibernating and have opened the gates, what is going to happen if some jack#*! starts posting insane comments? Who will be able to delete that kind of behavior?


Well, I guess you'll have to learn to skip over those things, the SPAM that shows up, the profanity, etc. I'm sure the prima donna's can show you the way.

There's an old saying...

*Be careful what you wish for.* You wanted a free-for-all, now you have it.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, I guess you'll have to learn to skip over those things, the SPAM that shows up, the profanity, etc. I'm sure the prima donna's can show you the way.
> 
> There's an old saying...
> 
> *Be careful what you wish for.* You wanted a free-for-all, now you have it.


I'll leave it at that John. Good luck on your layout.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

WOW......it took Joe a lot of courage to leave?
Ha Ha Ha right.:gotooprah:

I agree with Big Jim,
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=2436448&postcount=15

Go ahead>>>>>> cuss me out, call me names, or better yet put me on your ignore list ! I DON'T CARE! :cheeky4:
Ha Ha Ha I won't run away and leave either.
Geeeee leaving over something like this?

And something like this is making the mods not mod?

What the uck don't come on for 2 days and the site went to hell !:lame:


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

The way I see it, MTF is bigger than any single one of it's members and ANY single one of us leaving won't cause or hasten its demise but in MHO being free of moderators and moderation could by possibly encouraging an anything goes atmosphere which if left unchecked might possibly cause this forum to implode.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Brian, thank you for the kind words and for the support. I don't know about my having courage, let alone great courage. One thing about taking a stand is that it shows who your true friends are.

Brian (Traindiesel), I didn't say I would never come back. I said, "Goodbye for now, maybe goodbye forever." The situation seems to have resolved itself and I will resume participating as usual.

Bob (Lehigh74), I made no ultimatum. I explained why I was leaving. I didn't want to just disappear. I made no threat and didn't demand any action. I stated that I was unhappy with moving threads and would leave until that was resolved. While I am active here my leaving isn't much of a threat.

Wood, I agree that the mods should continue doing their jobs. If posting birthday greetings and the like in the O gauge sub-forum is so terrible that the mods will no longer do their job then the moderators should resign. They are clearly not fit for the job. But we don't ask them to resign, we only ask that they do not moderate in a petit legalistic manner, moving threads without first talking to the originator. My thread about why members picked their forum name was in the O gauge sub-forum. It had nothing to do with O gauge specifically but that is where I wanted it. I am an O gauger and the O gauge sub-forum is my home here at MTF. No one moved that thread to Union Station and many members from other scales participated. Their participation was welcomed and made the thread better. I come here to talk to friends. Moving one of my threads to a sub-forum I don't participate in is effectively silencing me and that would make participation here useless.

Wood, one other thing. I started my goodbye thread so that my friends here would know that I was leaving and why. I didn't want my friends, you being one of them, to wonder what had happened to me. Moderators moving threads to the dead zone was not acceptable to me.Moving the birthday threads to the dead zone was a purposeful action, not a mistake. It told me it was time to go.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

It’s sincerely good to have you back in the fold, Joe. 

Now, can we go back to train talk and have this thread locked?

Oh, wait.........


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Thank you Brian. I think it's good for other members to have their say here, regardless of whether they praise me or damn me.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Country Joe,

You have nothing to explain. Your original post was very clear and reasonable. There were no threats, ultimatums or name calling. I thought it was absolutely fair and that you spoke for the silent majority who just want to share with friends. Thank you for standing up for us.

It’s OK to hold moderators accountable. They make mistakes just like the rest of us. I don’t think that questioning inconsistent moderating choices is the same thing as asking for a free for all, and I don’t think Moderators should be referring to Members as Prima Donnas. Probably best to chalk it up to frustration or a bad day or something and just move forward. 

In the end, this was all started by a few very unhappy people who complained and pressured the Moderators to move a “Happy Birthday” thread. In the internet world they are called “Flamers” and they’re probably loving every second of this. To them I say: “Get over yourself! You’re on the wrong train Forum.” And if they truly are offended by Happy Birthday then I would like wish them a Very Happy Birthday.

Emile


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

TheBigCrabCake said:


> Country Joe,
> 
> You have nothing to explain. Your original post was very clear and reasonable. There were no threats, ultimatums or name calling. I thought it was absolutely fair and that you spoke for the silent majority who just want to share with friends. Thank you for standing up for us.
> 
> ...


Thank you Emile and very well said, again. I greatly appreciated your post, quoted by Brian above, that explained and gave depth and insight into my original post.

You are right, let's wish them a Very Happy Birthday and a Very Merry Christmas to boot. That will show those Scrooges. :laugh:


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The issues that one hissy fit can cause.....wow.....

Talk about getting over ones self......hwell:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Thanks for your support, Hobo, and a Extra Very Happy Birthday to you!!!


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

I don't know what dictionary some of you are reading, but, when some says...

"This is unacceptable so I will not be posting until this is resolved."

...it is most definitely an "Ultimatum"!

Merriam-Webster
"ultimatum"
: a final proposition, condition, or demand; especially: one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Have a nice day, Big Jim.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Big Jim said:


> I don't know what dictionary some of you are reading, but, when some says...
> 
> "This is unacceptable so I will not be posting until this is resolved."
> 
> ...


An ultimatum is a call to action. The verbal equivalent of being Active Aggressive.

CJ made a revocable declaration. The verbal equivalent of being Passive Aggressive...like what you wrote above.

I guess you two have something in common after all.

Happy Birthday!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Joe I've got your back. If people don't like a post either ignore it or respond in a respectful manner.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Country Joe said:


> Thanks for your support, Hobo, and a Extra Very Happy Birthday to you!!!


If it was my birthday, I would take your wishes as genuine.....but since it's not my birthday, well then.....hwell:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Jim, I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm not sure if you realize that what you understood is not what I meant.  OH, and a very extra special super happy birthday to you my friend.

Emile, thanks for the clarification and support. I didn't think I was passive aggressive but maybe I was. I didn't ask for any moderators to quit or to be fired. I didn't ask for anyone to do anything. All I asked for was the freedom for myself and others to post new threads in the forum that is most meaningful to us. 

Denny, thanks so much. A friend in need is a friend indeed.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> If it was my birthday, I would take your wishes as genuine.....but since it's not my birthday, well then.....hwell:


Yeah, that was tongue in cheek, but this is genuine, have a great day.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

Then let's just leave it as have a nice day, Old Hobo.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well I did get to say what I wanted to say, so you guys have a nice day too!


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

i, for one, have not noticed any absenses [other than grj and lee] from the forums ... 

mind you i don't check all the forums, but most of them.... something usually good in every one ..


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes indeed!


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Big Ed said:


> WOW......it took Joe a lot of courage to leave?
> Ha Ha Ha right.:gotooprah:
> 
> I agree with Big Jim,
> ...


Big Ed

You are the poster child for TROLL. No one should bother to respond to your moron comments because it just emboldens you. Please go away, or comment only on model trains.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Time to close this!!!


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