# Lets see your Prewar items



## santafe158

As the title says. I'll end the discussion on the postwar thread .

Unfortunately, I don't have any prewar yet but maybe someday. I like looking at it though so let's see what you have.


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## tjcruiser

Now you're talkin' my game ...

My junkyard dog "Spike" ... a Lionel 259E ...










My Elvis-clone ... a Lionel 258 ...










A patched-up Lionel 1688 ...










And, of course, one of my beloved little Lionel 1681's ... this one is the Cat Lady ...










And in the "There's Always Hope" department, a little Before and After ...


















TJ


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## santafe158

Wow, that caboose restoration is pretty amazing. How'd you do the lines and rivet dots?


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## gunrunnerjohn

They do come back from the dead, don't they!


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## tjcruiser

santafe158 said:


> How'd you do the lines and rivet dots?


A cheap, simple black Sharpie pen. :thumbsup:


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## jreid

I assume you masked for the Sharpie? I must admit that impresses me as I never got such clean looking results with a Sharpie


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## tjcruiser

No mask ... just run the Sharpie along a straight edge with a "reverse bevel" such that the Sharpie liquid doesn't bleed onto the paint while you're laying it down.

After some trial and error work, I made a magnet straight edge by cutting a reverse bevel (with a razor) into a cheap business-card-style refridgerator magnet. That way, I could lay the straight edge (magnet) where I wanted it, and have it hold itself in position on the tin (steel) shell. More info over in this thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3847

TJ


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## eljefe

You do beautiful work, tjcruiser. Maybe I should start hanging on to my hotel key cards...


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## tjcruiser

:thumbsup: Thanks!


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## Big Ed

Prewar #442 Diner.....Original, complete.

Temporary location,












New location ( for now ),











Thread link for the #442, 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=4127
 
Also in front of the 442 are the prewar #58 lamps, I have a few around the table.


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## pookybear

*Best Christmas Ever*

Hello Everyone,

Ok for my first entry under this heading, I thought I would post something
special. Not on the rare side, but my first train sets. It was in the bad
economic turn down of the Carter years. 1978-9 for those who do not
remember it. I was a much smaller Pooky then and since my parents
had just bought a new house it looked like Christmas was just going to
miss our house.  Bummer.

But my father made a trip to Upstate PA and got a few of his toys from
Christmas past. Oddly enough those were hand-me-downs from his
cousin. As my father grew up in the depression years. Many a lean
holiday during those years.

The first set is the Black Diamond Jr. set of 1928 top of the line Ives
steam engine set for the year. A striking set done in Red and Flat 
Black. A favorite of collectors these days.

The second set #504 from 1927 the Fort Orange was also part of the
gift giving that year. And yes it is Orange. 

Even though they did not run when I got them and my parents actually
apologized for that, this was by far the best Christmas toys I ever
recieved. 

Also kinda set my policy for collecting and my vision of what a train set
should look like. Making me one of the "Ives boys". 

Pookybear


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> Prewar #442 Diner.....Original, complete.


The cars seem to dwarf the diner, are they really to scale?


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## tjcruiser

Ed -- you've touted that diner before ... absolutely pristine. Quite the treasure in that condition.

Pook -- that Black Diamond set is gorgeous! The brass work really shows well. Please, please tell me that you have that back in mechanical running condition now?!? (I embedded your pics ... too wonderful to simply be icons!)

Cheers,

TJ


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## pookybear

TJ,

Thank you TJ for imbedding the photographs. I really need to learn how
to do that someday. I was lucky enough to find the time for the posting
let alone learning a new trick.

Anyways, yes they are both running. It was just brushes and rollers keeping
these from moving. Just enough over the head of both me and my dad
back in the late 70s to cause problems.

Pookybear

I will try to post some more prewar stuff during the week.


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## gunrunnerjohn

pookybear said:


> Thank you TJ for imbedding the photographs. I really need to learn how to do that someday.


Once you have them attached, just right click on them and copy the link to the clipboard. Then click the







icon on the reply box toolbar and paste the image link into the window. The image will appear in the post at the location of the cursor.


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## pookybear

Thank you John,

I shall give that a try.

Pookybear


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The cars seem to dwarf the diner, are they really to scale?



Old greasy spoon diners were not that big in real life.
You never ate in one?
The guys standing next to the cars seem just about the right size.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I prefer steak and caviar to greasy hamburgers.


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## santafe158

A real diner, in the Henry Ford Museum



















There's a real one near the Strasburg RR and the Red caboose motel that was pretty cool. I think it's called Jennies diner (a real truck stop diner)


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## jreid

If I am correct, there was a company that made them to look like Dining cars, but were in fact a bit wider.


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## santafe158

jreid said:


> If I am correct, there was a company that made them to look like Dining cars, but were in fact a bit wider.


The one at the Henry Ford Museum might be one of those. From the front it looks just like a dining car (except for the slanted ends), but from the side it's really much wider.


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## tjcruiser

Neat diners, guys, but let's keep this thread focused on prewar train stuff, OK? (Sorry ... a Mod thing ...)

Thanks!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think they were trying to convince me that Ed's diner was scale size with real examples.


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## pookybear

Everyone back on topic

Lets Talk about Ives 9 inch box cars. Top of the line frieght cars for Ives.
There are 12 major types to collect. One is very rare painted and rubber
stamped Sunlight Dairy Car. And two more types are also painted and 
rubber stamped but hard to find. The rest of the set are wonderful
lithographed cars.

As for what I have 6 of the standard issue lithography sides. Got lucky
when the economic turn down hit and some collectors let go of their
seconds in their collections. I was more than happy to take a group of
seconds in these cars.

included in the photo is:

No. 124 made somewhere in the 1917-25 range

No. 125 made somewhere in the 1917-25 range

No. 12581 made in 1929-30 range
note this car has a reproduction door and a repainted roof.

No. 12580 made in 1926-27 range

No. 12585 made somewhere in the 1917-25 range 
note this is the hardest of the lithographed cars to get. It has seven
different colors and thus needed the most printing work which lead to
higher manufactoring costs. Also the prettiest of the hearlds.

No. 12582 made in 1930 
note the closed sill on the frame. Also this car has reproduction doors and
a repainted roof.










Pookybear

And thank you John for the lesson in posting photographs into the body
of the post.
More pictures laters.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Nice pictures.


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## tjcruiser

Pook,

You've been holding out on us. Nice stash! Nice litho.

Are the sides of those cars flat, and what we're seeing as wood planks simply litho art? Pretty impressive.

TJ


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## pookybear

Thank you John,

and TJ,

that is correct. Everything on the sides is lithography. Ives used the same
basic car for everything and just the printing was different. Also Ives had
the largest selection of "hearld" cars on the market at the time. It is one
of the gaulents of collecting. =/

Anyways I do have a question is there a high limit on pictures? As when I
posted that the site resized the picture. 

Pookybear


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## tjcruiser

Pook,

"hearld" ??? ... do you mean "herald" ? (and "gauntlets", right?  )

There is a limit on photo size. If you click on the "paper clip icon" to launch the Manage Attachment menu, you'll see a table of max sized below. That said, I regularly load jpg's up to about 1500x1200 pixels or so. I try to avoid anything bigger than about that.

TJ


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## pookybear

tjcruiser said:


> Pook,
> 
> "hearld" ??? ... do you mean "herald" ? (and "gauntlets", right?  )
> 
> TJ


Darn it now everyone knows why I failed English class. Darn bad spelling. And
sentence fragments.

And I shall keep the sizes in mind I think I went to large last time I shall
split up the next group a bit.

Thanks TJ.

Pookybear


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## pookybear

*68 ives box cars*

Here we go again everyone,

Another group of Ives boxcars. These are the 6.5 inch series which were
the middle range priced cars at the time. There are 16 major road names
that make up this group. I own only 11 but here they are. The deal here
is like the last most of these came to market from November 2010 to March 
of 2011 cause of the turn down of the market place. And I was of course
very happy to have a chance at finally owning some of these fine cars.

And another chance to try and upload nice looking photographs as well.
I think I got the hang of it now. ^_^

No. 68 from 1912
No. 85829 from 1918-1925










No. 151370 from 1918-1925
No. 64385 from 1918-1925










No. 67389 from 1926-1927
No. 118658 from 1929










No. 64387 from 1918-1925
No. 64158 from 1929










No. 64159 from 1918-1925 note this one is a cleaned up overpaint.
No. 64396 from 1918-1925










and No. 64386 from around 1916










Hope you enjoy

Pookybear

I shall try to take more photographs this weekend if I can find the time.


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## Big Ed

I hooked these up with a temporary wire.

They are getting run time, first time in probably 70 years.:thumbsup:



Ye Old Lionel Lines Express #2065.

Prewar Lionel #'s 1673/74/75























Some talk about them in this thread.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2138&page=2


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## tjcruiser

Pook -- Beautiful old Ives cars ... great shape, too. When I think of Ives cars, I tend to think of the Ives/Lionel vintage cars like Baby Ruth and such ... little ones. That said, you're showing a new (old!) side of Ives with more detailed framework, and really attractive litho. Thanks!

Ed -- I love the windowed tail on that trailing passenger car. I remember drooling over those in your Help Identify This thread. I thought we (via T-Man) had identified those as 1674/1675 (rather than 1673)? Are the front and middle car identical, or are there differences in the cab ends? Also, in re-reading that thread, it appears they were mated with the 1588 windup streamline loco (similar in looks to a 1688, but not powered).

TJ


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## pookybear

Ed, 

Nice streamliner cars there. As I do recall some of those set come in 
odd colors sometimes and are very hard to get.

TJ,

No problem. Most people tend to get stuck wearing Lionel vision and
never see anything else. Nothing wrong with Lionel but there are some
beautiful products made of others as well. I tend to focus on these
and leave the Lionel stuff to the Lionel experts.  Only so
much $$ to go around. 

It was a shame about Ives, it is their detail and cost of production that
really closed the company back in the day. I mean we love the detail
but it does not matter to a 9 year old boy. All they wanted was a train.
Even simple one color paint jobs being offered by American flyer and 
Lionel fit the bill and were cheaper to make. Ives did not stand a chance.

Pookybear


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## pookybear

*dorfan boxcars*

Did someone say Dorfan?

Maybe not but here are the three single door boxcars they produced.










Pookybear


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Pook -- Beautiful old Ives cars ... great shape, too. When I think of Ives cars, I tend to think of the Ives/Lionel vintage cars like Baby Ruth and such ... little ones. That said, you're showing a new (old!) side of Ives with more detailed framework, and really attractive litho. Thanks!
> 
> Ed -- I love the windowed tail on that trailing passenger car. I remember drooling over those in your Help Identify This thread. I thought we (via T-Man) had identified those as 1674/1675 (rather than 1673)? Are the front and middle car identical, or are there differences in the cab ends? Also, in re-reading that thread, it appears they were mated with the 1588 windup streamline loco (similar in looks to a 1688, but not powered).
> 
> TJ



Pook, do you have a table set up to run those old Ives?:thumbsup:

TJ check out this link and his pictures.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7203686

The third picture of the cars showing their fronts (where they hook up) the 1673 is different.

What I have is the front coach #1673, car in the middle is the coach# 1674 and the rear is #1675 observation car.

I knew you liked the rear of the observation car that is why I included a picture showing it.

Yes it goes with a windup but runs fine behind the #2065. I just have to figure out a way to hook it to the tender. (Without a wire)


edit, 
besides the hookup I am missing something else on them.
Anyone see what it is?


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## Big Ed

So what do you all think?

Blue top and orange sides for them?

Orange top and blue sides?

Alien green?

I should try to find some more of the center coaches the #1674's. The train looks too short.


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## tjcruiser

Pook -- I don't know whether I should be mad at you, or thanking you ... you appear to be expanding my horizons away from prewar Lionel!

Ed -- EXCELLENT link/photo showing the difference between the 1673/74 cars ...










I like 'em red, but I could see 'em color-matched to your orange.blue combo ... WITH some_ journal boxes _on the trucks, too!

TJ


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## Artieiii

big ed said:


> So what do you all think?
> 
> Blue top and orange sides for them?
> 
> Orange top and blue sides?
> 
> Alien green?
> 
> I should try to find some more of the center coaches the #1674's. The train looks too short.
> 
> View attachment 11206


Big Ed,
I am thinking orange on the sides with a thick stripe or rectangle of blue on the sides. Maybe blue on tops and blue around the window frames. If you decide to do lettering I vote on orange. Someday your really gotta do something in green for your aliens.
-Art


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## pookybear

*the pooky guide to spending $s*

TJ,

Just do not tell your wife when you hit EBay hard with paycheck in hand that
I said it was OK. 

Pookybear


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## pookybear

big ed said:


> Pook, do you have a table set up to run those old Ives?:thumbsup:


Ed,

I wish I had a place for setting these up and running them. But for right now
they are doing laps on a small test loop and that is about it. Really need
to built a garage but for some reason I keep spending money on the next
shiny thing. 

Blast this crow like behavior I have. 

Pookybear


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## inxy

Some prewar housing. Most everything I have or buy is prewar.

B


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## santafe158

I love those tinplate houses.


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## tjcruiser

Me, too! Very traditional toy-like look. I've only seen them in photos, though, and it's hard to judge size. About how tall are the upper roof ridges on those?

TJ


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## santafe158

tjcruiser said:


> Me, too! Very traditional toy-like look. I've only seen them in photos, though, and it's hard to judge size. About how tall are the upper roof ridges on those?
> 
> TJ


The Henry Ford Museum brought out/borrowed some of Richard Kughns from his personal collection to use on their Christmas O gauge layout this past Christmas. They also had a tinplate Lionel roundhouse section along with a bunch of other prewar goodies (no trains though, just modern and maybe postwar). Apparently the rodents made a snack out of the gingerbread town they usually use. Mr. Kughn is a board member and loaned out his stuff so the layout could go on this year.

Back to the houses, they weren't super big. The bigger ones were probably near scale size, maybe a little small. The small ones were... well... small 

Here's a video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AdvRsXEZYQ

Here's another video I just found on Youtube- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfK5Ee9KQmY

The real locomotive in the background is C&O 2-6-6-6 Allegheny #1601 to give you an idea of size.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks. Neat! It's not every day that one sees a model RR setup running right next to a beautiful old steamer.

I've never had the chance to go to the Ford Museum, but I sure would like to someday. At Christmas time, perhaps!

TJ


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## santafe158

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks. Neat! It's not every day that one sees a model RR setup running right next to a beautiful old steamer.
> 
> I've never had the chance to go to the Ford Museum, but I sure would like to someday. At Christmas time, perhaps!
> 
> TJ


Not to change the subject of the thread again but....
If you come during the summer they have a working real RR out in the village. They run a homebuilt 4-4-0 (built locally out of parts of scrapped locos in 1932) and the last Mason Bogie (built 1873 by Mason ,articulated), an 0-6-4T. They'll have an ex Detroit and Lima Northern/DT&I 4-4-0 (Baldwin, 1897) running in a year or two.


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## inxy

Height to top of roof is 4, 4 3/4 and 5" going from small to large houes. Looking to buy two more but the prices are going up to more than I'm willing to pay. Got the houses about five months ago for about 30-40% less than they are presently selling for on Ebay.

B


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## Big Ed

inxy said:


> Height to top of roof is 4, 4 3/4 and 5" going from small to large houes. Looking to buy two more but the prices are going up to more than I'm willing to pay. Got the houses about five months ago for about 30-40% less than they are presently selling for on Ebay.
> 
> B


Are you going to repaint them?


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## pookybear

Nice houses there, I have always wondered about this size of those. Both
lionel and Ives had a habit of making stuff a little too big. That way they
could be used with both 0 and Standard.

And remember you only have original just once, but the red house could
use a new finish. 

Pookybear


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## tjcruiser

inxy said:


> Height to top of roof is 4, 4 3/4 and 5" going from small to large houes.


Oh! That's much smaller than I would have guessed. Pook's right ... old Lionel stuff is typically oversized from a true-scale perspective.

Thanks ... good to know.

TJ


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## inxy

*Villa Sizes/Scale*

Dimensions are in inches:

Small #184 - 4 3/4 L x 2 3/4 W x 4 H

Cream #191 - 5 5/16 L x 4 7/8 W x 4 3/4 H

Red #189 - 7 1/8 L x 5 W x 5 H

Length and width are size of base. Subtract 3/8" from sides of base for building sizes.

Picture shows villas placed in front of an F3 and 1666 for judging scale. 











Th villas need cleaning and probably way down the road some paint.

B


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## tjcruiser

Nice size/proportion info and photo. Thanks,

TJ


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## Wabashbud

Here is my 1684 after new paint, decals, hand rails and misc. other parts.


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## pookybear

Ah, nice looking redo there. Got to like the flat black look.

Pookybear


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## tjcruiser

Hey Bud,

Nice restoration. Flat or satin black? Dry-transfer number tags? Well done.

Don't be shy, by the way. Chime in with some bio/introduction info over in our Introduce Yourself thread, OK? Good to have you onboard.

TJ


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## Wabashbud

Thanks guys for the nice comments. The flat finish came from Dull Coat over Model Masters flat black lacquer and the decals are float on from the Train Tender applied to a coat of clear gloss. The Dull Coat hides the edges of the decals. The hardest part is stripping the old paint, Lionel sure did a great job back in the day.


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## tjcruiser

What did you use to strip? Lots of guys here (myself included) use a bath in Easy Off Oven Cleaner (the heavy duty version) ... outside in a covered pan for several hours. Strips paint nicely. Follow with Scotchbrite rubdown, and Dremel stainless steel brush buff.

Whatever method you used, it certainly looks great!

TJ


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## Wabashbud

TJ I started with my old stand by liquid detergent cleaner I've used on plastic box cars for years but can't remember the name. I have serious case of CRS (can't remember sh..). Then went to lacquer thinner, then a commercial liquid stripper. Shoot, that was a great paint job, no wonder it lasted so many years. Next time it's Easy off Oven Cleaner, for sure.

And thanks again for the compliment. I've never painted with acrylic and couldn't find Floquil locally, so I went with Model Master Lacquer.


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## Wabashbud

All most forgot, after all that stripping, a good wash with denatured alcohol.


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## Big Ed

Wabashbud said:


> TJ I started with my old stand by liquid detergent cleaner I've used on plastic box cars for years but can't remember the name. I have serious case of CRS (can't remember sh..). Then went to lacquer thinner, then a commercial liquid stripper. Shoot, that was a great paint job, no wonder it lasted so many years. Next time it's Easy off Oven Cleaner, for sure.
> 
> And thanks again for the compliment. I've never painted with acrylic and couldn't find Floquil locally, so I went with Model Master Lacquer.


Just make sure it is heavy duty oven cleaner, I tried lemon scented and it smelled nice but did not take any paint off.



Wabashbud said:


> All most forgot, after all that stripping, a good wash with denatured alcohol.


I skip the denatured and use 200 pf straight grain alcohol.:thumbsup:

You got to watch some denatured alcohol on plastics, but that depends on what chemical they used to denature the alcohol with. Some will melt plastic.


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## jreid

I can now post here, the brown truck arrived a short time ago

259E
























had to post more than one picture, I am so happy with this one, only problem, and might not be that big of a problem is that there is gear noise when it runs, although it runs great, 3 way E unit too, even has the red piece inside the smokestack that makes the stack look red from above when the light is illuminated.
I have a couple of cars coming, a 1682 caboose that looks near new and a Baby Ruth Box Car. I already had an Ives coach so there is something for the Locomotive to pull around, a bit rusty but still is something to use.


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## jreid

The caboose arrived in the mail, it is just like Christmas today









I am bothered by the whine that the 259E makes, might need bushings


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## servoguy

Did you lube the loco?


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## jreid

Lubed and greased helped just a little
http://youtu.be/0JVZPAezEf4

no layout yet, just started acquiring things so the dining room table is the train table for a while. I ran it fast just so the sound was more prominent.


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## pookybear

Nice items you have there. Love that Lionel-Ives caboose.

From the sound of it I would check the smallest gear. the one right on the
armature. I am sure that one has wear on it. 

Pookybear


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## tjcruiser

John,

Congrats on the 259 acquisition! Looks to be in very nice shape. (I'm happy to have helped a small bit via our PM dialog.)

As for the rough running noise, I'd clean and lube wherever possible. Are you sure the rough noise is gear associated? Might it be coming from the drive rod linkages? Make sure all components there are aligned properly and lubed, too.

That 1682 caboose is about the most crisp I've ever seen. And a box, too! Wow!

And finally -- and most importantly -- you're running awfully close to The Dreaded Edge there, my friend. Pay due heed to the Gravity Gods, and keep that new loco safe, OK?

TJ


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## jreid

I will do another clean and lube ( after the latest lubrication is removed. I removed the motor from the shell and the noise is still there, drive rods removed. From the pictures, the soon to come Baby Ruth looks to be almost as clean as the caboose, I am planning on slowly accumulating more rolling stock, but am going to be building a more substantial layout in the next month or so, prior to Halloween, I am alone so nobody runs the trains too fast and the utmost of attention and care is given to make sure that no dives to the carpet happen. I am so very pleased with the 259E cosmetically and the other items too. I do think that from here on I will be concentrating on Pre-War tinplate.
I run my live steam Locos in the garage where an occasional trip to the concrete has happened but speed is much less controllable, I guess I could show a few more items for being both O gauge and Pre-War but not Lionel

my Bowman 234, English made from the late 1920s








and my Bowman 300, about the same age








Instead of 16 Volts AC these two burn Alcohol and heat water to a boil and are in fact driven by real steam, Now these two go FAST in bold print capitol letters. Tons of fun but not great when the weather is bad as I dont really want to set the carpet on fire.


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## servoguy

jreid, if the loco is still chattering or squealing, I think you might have missed a place that needs oil. A dry bearing will make a chattering sound. Usually the problem is one of the armature bearings.


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## jreid

I am now 99% sure that it is in the gears, removed the armature which also removes the little center gear, spun the wheels by hand and still got the noise, by putting pressure on one wheel and then the other I could get the noise to change some, Cleaned the armature and brushes, lubricated every place and put it back together, still makes the noise.


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## tjcruiser

John,

Those Bowman's are incredible. I really don't know much about Bowman. Perhaps you can create a Bowman thread at some point, and educate us a bit on the company and what/when they made trains?

Is that heat damage on the sidepaint I'm seeing? 

Thanks.

TJ


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## jreid

Yes, those were played with since they were built in the late 20s, and boy do they get hot


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## pookybear

Live steam just wonderful, those are perfect!

Pookybear


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## servoguy

jreid, I still think you have a lube issue. My 259E is where I can't see it right now, but from your pictures it appears that the pinion gear on the armature turns the two idler gears which in turn drive the two wheels. What it sounds like is that you have a dry bearing. Did you lube the bearings that the two idler gears turn on? Did you lube all of the bearings for the two axles that carry the drivers? Did you lube the bearings for both ends of the armature?


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## jreid

259E sorted out, I have an eyesight problem and lubing up close is a hit and miss situation

Got some new Rolling Stock ( well new to me ) been having serious back problems so couldnt take photos for a week or more

















couldnt resist a second Baby Ruth because it was only $5








and a 608, now I need one or two 607s dont I?









all of these were less than I have paid for more modern box cars. I LOVE the tinplate Lionel.


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## tjcruiser

John,

Those tinplate cars in very nice shape ... especially the tank on the Shell car. Good finds.

I see that one of your Ruth cars has box couplers, whereas the others have latch. I've never fiddled with a box coupler on my end. Is the slot in the end of the frame the same for both, such that it would be an easy swap-over? (The box Ruth appears to have a more open-ended frame end, from the photo ???)

Thanks,

TJ


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## servoguy

No need to swap the couplers. The box couplers and the latch couplers will connect together. Some of the box couplers are operated by a coil and so can be uncoupled by using a control track section. The box couplers also will couple together without using the big hand in the sky.
Bruce


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## tjcruiser

servoguy said:


> No need to swap the couplers. The box couplers and the latch couplers will connect together.




I never knew that, Bruce! Thanks!!!

(I just love learning new stuff here on the forum!)

TJ


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## jreid

The box couplers on this one are integrated with the trucks. and are a bit low causing the car to lift a hair above the rails when coupled with any of my other cars. They do connect together and although lifted a bit above the rail it still works fine and doesnt derail.
As you can see I am using Fastrack and I notice that the flanges on the tinplate cars are deep enough that they click on the Fastrack ties 
I also need to work on the light in the 608 as it goes on and off, I think the way the roller is attached is the cause, all connections have been cleaned as have the roller and wheels too.


----------



## tjcruiser

Unfortunately, one cannot simply grind down the flanges on the tinplate wheels. The back face of the wheel is held in place by the pressed-over edge of the wheel flange. If one were to grind that down, the wheel would fall apart.


----------



## servoguy

The flanges on the prewar wheels are larger than the flanges on the post war wheels. The prewar wheels are made from sheet steel. The postwar wheels are cast. The prewar wheels don't work well with postwar switches and crossings. The O-31 crossings have the same number regardless of whether they are prewar or postwar, and postwar trains will make a lot of noise when they go across prewar crossings.


----------



## pookybear

That Shell car is nice.

Pookybear


----------



## Gerard

Here is my 1688 pulling a 2677 Gondola and 2682 Caboose. These are the only freight cars I have so far but I plan to add a 2680 tanker and 2679 Baby Ruth to complete that O27 freight series when I find a good deal on some minty ones.


----------



## tjcruiser

Gerard,

Sleek looking ... I really love those streamliners. Is that a whistle tender?

TJ


----------



## Gerard

The streamlined locomotives of that era are my favorite. Mine does not have a whistle though a whistle tender is another item I'd like to get someday... maybe along with some more prewar locomotives.


----------



## jreid

I could see one of those streamliners in my future too. Art Deco


----------



## tjcruiser

Gerard,

If you happen to ebay find an old/cheap whistle mechanism (only), you can add it to that very tender without too much effort. I did that myself recently.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## jreid

1668E real nice condition cosmetically, the E unit works great, but the front pickup lifts the wheels off of the track and thus there is no traction. I am trying to bend it a little ( carefully ) so I dont need to take the motor all apart.
Anyway, I think I now have enough Locomotives ( is that possible? ) and need to get the layout built and maybe add a few more pieces of rolling stock.


----------



## servoguy

J, the pickup spring should not be strong enough to pick up the loco. Check to see if the pickup is moving up and down freely.

BTW, there is no such thing as too many locos. It would be like having too much money.


----------



## jreid

I agree about the pickup, but I think this one is dependent on the flexibility of the metal, two metal shoes, not rollers. I can get it so that it goes real well until it hits the Fastrqack uncoupler and then the slightly raised part of the track makes the Loco kind of jump and start spinning wheels I believe it needs just the right bend. I could be mistaken, but I have seen several pre war Lionels with a similar pickup arrangement.


----------



## tjcruiser

John,

The 1668 has shoe-style pickups, as opposed to roller-style pickups used on other Lionel locos. (My beloved 1681's have the shoe pickups, too.)

The shoe is a squared-off C-shaped clip with a little tab sticking up on its top arm. The tab fits into a little slot in a metal spring clip that's rivetted to the back side (top) of the black fiber plate that you see on the bottom of the loco. When fitted properly, the shoe should easily flex up and down (with some spring tension) when you push your finger against it. It should NOT be stiff enough to lift the loco wheels off the rails. If your loco is having problems in that regards, I suspect that the shoe is not "springing" like it should, and might not be seated in the spring clip properly.

If you remove the motor from the loco, you can slide a small flathead screwdriver into the top of the fiber plate, and gently lift the spring clip up, allowing you to remove the shoe ... or position it with its tab seated in the slot properly.

On occasion, the spring clips get bent out of shape, and don't provide springy "bounce" to the shoe. If that's the case, remove the shoe, and slide the short side of a small Allen wrench under the spring clip, pushing it reasonably far back towards the rivet. This will raise the spring clip up. Once raised, the Allen wrench will act like a fulcrum, allowing you to bend the outer portion of the clip (the side nearest to you) down, inducing a downward bow to the spring clip. Once done, remove the Allen wrench, and reinstall the shoe.

The photo below shows what the spring clip looks like on the back (top) side of the fiber pickup plate.

Also, here's a link that has some great photos of the pickup plate, the spring clips,and the shoe. Scroll down towards the bottom to see the pics ...

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/158633/1749281.aspx

Hope this info helps a bit,

TJ


----------



## servoguy

Bend the pickup shoe so it rides on the aft end. The gentle slope to the front then should allow it to ride over the bump in the track. Most of the ones I have seen are bent like this.


----------



## jreid

I got it to seat better and have been working on the bend too. it works a lot better but still isnt quite there yet. The front shoe was so bent that I wonder if I might be wise to replace it. IT is an Ebay find, the wires are all new and the motor is very clean as is the E ub=nit, I think someone recently rebuilt it but didnt get the pickup shoes right.
Thanks for the advice and I will get it going right SOON, your tips and advice are appreciated. 
I love the Loewy design, the Loco looks so cool on the track too.


----------



## tjcruiser

New pickup shoes are readily available from most Lionel parts suppliers. Jeff Kane at the Train Tender has them.

Original ones are bronze (I think). Repro ones (more common today) are chrome-plate steel.

Be careful about the repro ones ... I had a pair recently that had the "top tab" too big to fit smoothly into the slot in the spring clip. As such, the shoe didn't "seat" itself properly. I filed down the shoe tab with a Dremel -- an easy fix -- but beware that the as-found repro part wouldn't work.

TJ


----------



## T-Man

*Some Visual Aides*








.


----------



## servoguy

T, your front pickup will ride over bumps better if you bend it so it touches at the rear rather than at the front.


----------



## Gerard

Took a couple new pictures with my 137 station and passenger cars.

The 137 was originally an automatic stop station but the stop mechanism was missing when I got it. I installed a lamp bracket for the similar 127 station to light it up. Someone at some point also decided to bend the doors open. Probably not too hard to bend back straight, but for now it's just a little extra character.

The passenger cars are 1630 Pullmans and a 1631 Observation. They or the several similar variants make a great match to any smaller O27 locomotives. My set was repainted at some point in a slightly darker/purer blue color than original. Not perfect restorations, but nice looking runners.


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey Gerard,

I wish I had seen your pic of that 1688 with your passenger cars about a month ago. Those 1630/1631 cars are in perfect size/proportion to the loco. Nice pairing.

I recently ebay-bought a 610/612 passenger car set. (My very first passenger cars.) I made a mistake of not judging/researching the size of these cars before I bought them. They're nice looking cars, but they really are much bigger in size than yours, and I think a bit out of proportion to my 1688, 1668, 1681 locos and the like.

Hindsight is 20/20, I guess.

Wanna trade?!? 

TJ


----------



## Gerard

I almost made the same mistake when I was looking for a passenger car set, but I read something about the size differences somewhere and figured out which are a match. Most of the prewar "O" passenger cars (and even freight cars) are taller and scaled to match the larger "O" locomotives. The Lionel O27 locomotives and matching set cars seem to be shrunk down all the way to about 1/64. That said, I don't think it's too bad to mismatch a little as they were all toys and not made to any exact scales to begin with.

There's also the 2630/2631 and 2640/2641 passenger sets with automatic box couplers (and some 1630/1631 cars with manual box couplers) that have the same bodies as the 1630/1631. They were available in dark green and tuscan red/brown colors along with the light greenish-blue color, in lighted and non-lighted versions. The blue lighted cars seem somewhat rare while the other colors are usually lighted. Aside from that, there's always the nice red lithographed 1690/1691 passenger cars that came with the 1668 and 1688 passenger sets.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I agree, that's a good looking set, and the proportions are good as well. :thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

Thanks, Gerard ... very helpful info in your post.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## norgale

I love these older trains that you all are collecting. This is a very informative and educational thread that is easy to read and understand. Some really beautiful cars and locos here guys but I have a question for you; Why did Lionel put those over-sized wheels on all the rolling stock? Seems to me that smaller,more scale like wheels would have worked just as well. I've always wondered about that. Keep up the great collecting and posting the pictures. Pete


----------



## tjcruiser

Pete,

Re: old Lionel rolling stock wheels. They were pressed tinplate ... hollow, with a crimped-on back face. I wonder if the manufacturing process somehow dictated a limitation in the size (i.e., somewhat large) ???

TJ


----------



## servoguy

TJ, the older Marx engines had very small wheels on the pilot trucks that were made like the wheels on prewar Lionel. I don't think there is a limitation imposed by manufacturing.


----------



## pookybear

Got another pre war Ives boxcar this week. It was a pretty good deal too.










Pookybear

and let me know if the picture does not show up today.


----------



## tjcruiser

Beautiful boxcar. I really like the stamped "truss" frame on that Ives design.

Got a chuckle out of the working ... Autos and furniture ... that'd be an awfully bumpy, wood-chip filled train ride!

TJ


----------



## pookybear

Dont be silly you put the furniture in the back seat of the car and strap it
in nice and tight!

Pookybear


----------



## pookybear

Well another one off my wish list and I can now stop stalking my mailman
for the month. One of the rarer Ives 9-inch long cars. This one is from 
about 1930. Union Pacific car.










Pookybear


----------



## tjcruiser

Pook,

Geogeous litho graphics on that boxcar. It's hard to tell what's real detail fittings, vs. what's simply litho ... the upper door rollers, for example. Great color / patina on the car, too.

Awfully nice of you to pick that up for me as a Christmas present! 

TJ


----------



## JRossman72

ok, here's the first of my 4 passenger cars, took me about a week to redo it. it's a 1690. the picture doesnt show real well, all i got is a phone till the ole lady gets home. i didn't go original colors, so i went ivory, a burnt orange and graphite grey. it looks real good in person, my wife was impressed, she doesnt have much faith in my skills. thanx jason


----------



## tjcruiser

Nice repaint! Did you use a fine Sharpie for the black lines, like I did on my caboose?

TJ


----------



## JRossman72

Ya, it worked pretty good, my straight line moved a couple times but other than that I'm pretty happy


----------



## pookybear

tjcruiser said:


> Pook,
> 
> Geogeous litho graphics on that boxcar. It's hard to tell what's real detail fittings, vs. what's simply litho ... the upper door rollers, for example. Great color / patina on the car, too.
> 
> Awfully nice of you to pick that up for me as a Christmas present!
> 
> TJ


TJ,

I havent completed the set yet!! No way I can send you half a present. 

Pookybear


----------



## Badwolf & Arizona RR

JRossman72 said:


> ok, here's the first of my 4 passenger cars, took me about a week to redo it. it's a 1690. the picture doesnt show real well, all i got is a phone till the ole lady gets home. i didn't go original colors, so i went ivory, a burnt orange and graphite grey. it looks real good in person, my wife was impressed, she doesnt have much faith in my skills. thanx jason


That's a good looking re-do, Jason.

Nice :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Nice job, maybe your wife's opinion of your skills will be upgraded now.


----------



## norgale

Darned right it's a nice job. Excellent painting skills here. Pete


----------



## JRossman72

Thanks guys, its a lot of fun redoing thse. My son loves helping. I like them a lot more than most of my modern stuff. Can anybody tell me this, is it just 1690 and 1691 in this set of cars or is there any others like baggauge cars. Also what's the best way to put #'s back on them. Don't think my hand is steady enough to free hand them


----------



## tjcruiser

1690 & 1691, only. No baggage car. (1692/1693 were similar cars, but in blue rather than red).

I've had great success redoing text and numbers using Woodland Scenics dry-transfer letter and number sheets. Here's one example:










That's a Woodland Scenics #MG724. I've also used MG703 and MG712. The nice thing is that these sheets come with several different font sizes. If you order any, though, make sure you count the number of actual letters that are in each font ... you may need duplicate sheets to complete your desired text.

I've also reproduced more complicated text by creating what I want in Word or Paint, and then printing it on matte photo paper and cutting/glueing it on to the car: Lionel Lines and 1682, here ... the photo paper bulges out a bit, but from any distance, it blends in nicely ...










Separately ...

Your passenger car looks great, but I think you should add a Sharpie rectangle around the lower half of the passenger doors, if at all possible.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## norgale

TJ if you go to Office Depot or the like and get decal paper you can print right onto it just like your doing. Then all you need a a clear fixative to seal the letters and you have a regular water slide decal. You can draw on the decal paper too and paint if you want to be creative. Pete


----------



## tjcruiser

Thanks, Pete. I've been intrigued about the printable decal paper on many occasions, but haven't actually tried it out yet. No reason for that, really ... in the works at some point, hopefully.

That's a good option for Jason, above, too!

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## JRossman72

I got an idea last night, I'm going to try it and show u guyz the results. Keep your fingers crossed. I think this will work and should cost much. Results to come!


----------



## JRossman72

tell me what u think, not sure if i like them or not.


----------



## JRossman72

not happy with my lines, going to start over on this one. my 3 yr old kept trying to help and you can see everytime he got close to me. but it gives me something to do in the winter


----------



## inxy

Helpers can be a hassle at times, good intentions and all. The decals look good. I would have used a smaller font for the "1690". I have a 1690 and 1691 that I have stripped and working on sanding the rust. After repaint for lines the plan is masking tape. With the aid of a straight edge I can't draw a straight line. The black indentations above thee windows came out pretty good. I thinking of masking the top and bottom of the indentations and freehand paint the corners. Good luck on the redo. For some of us lines are the hardest part of restoration.

B


----------



## JRossman72

I had the local guy who makes signs cut out the words. He didn't know if he could go smaller for the numbers. I will repaint the cars a 100 times if I have to. That just means my little guy is right beside me. That means more to me than a few bad lines of paint.


----------



## tjcruiser

Lines are tricky. Here's one tip you might want to try ...

Get one of those business-card sized refrigerator magnets ... sort of a flexible hard rubber. With a very sharp single edge razor and a straight edge, cut a reverse-bevel new edge along the magnet card. You can cut the other edge of the card to whatever width you want. Then, use the card as a straight edge on your tinplate. It will stick to the metal and hold itself in position. When you run a Sharpie along the reverse-bevel straight edge, the ink won't bleed underneath, and you should end up with a nice, crisp line.

As for the number/text you tried ... a bit too large in font for my tastes, but Rule #1 takes precedent: You're the boss ... if you're happy with it, that's all that counts!

TJ


----------



## pookybear

TJ has a good trick there as the best free-hand lines are just not that at 
all. Here is a simple way to prove this:

Take a piece of paper and draw a straight line. Now put the paper on the
edge of the table. hold the pen once again, but this time let your pinky
finger hang over the edge of the table. Lock you hand up tight and use
your pinky finger as a guide and run it down the edge of the table. this
will force your hand down the paper nice and even.

This should give you a better looking line. Same thing on the train car.
Use the frame itself as your guide there. 

Pookybear


----------



## tjcruiser

*Impulse eBaying ...*

I saw this prewar 601 Observation car on eBay and thought that it looked great in its all-original form. I placed a bid mid-auction, and then second-guessed myself. While I would like to add a few more passenger cars to my collection (I only have 1 other passenger set), I always thought that I would do so by buying a "matched lot" set ... Pullman + Observation. This car wasn't offered that way ... just the Observation, and no Pullman mate offered from the seller.

So, as the auction continued, I was kind of hoping that somebody would step in and outbid me. Sounds crazy, but that's what I was thinking. Well, it didn't happen ... fate pointed its manipulative finger at me.

So, here's my latest prewar tinplate addition, as found. I'll clean it up a bit, but don't think I'll do any repaint ... most of what's there is in good shape. I'm hoping a little compound will clean up some of the grime on the roof. I'm missing one handrail ... I think I can get a repro from Jeff Kane.

Now ... I'll be haunted with demons until I can track down a Pullman mate!

TJ


----------



## servoguy

TJ, I have a prewar set of passenger cars made in 1941. They have some discoloration on the roofs. I used automotive wax on them and it removed the discoloration. It is easier on the paint than rubbing compound.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's what you get for not using a sniper!  You can change your name right up to the last minute if you do it that way. I have deleted a number of pending snipes when I had second thoughts.


----------



## tjcruiser

Bruce -- good idea on the wax. I'll try that. Regular "carnuba" type wax???

John -- You're right! I really need a snipe tool watching me at all moments to STOP me from all of my crazy junker expenditures! 

TJ


----------



## servoguy

I think it had a cleaner in it, like the old Vista wax. Remember, I did this more than 30 years ago.


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Bruce -- good idea on the wax. I'll try that. Regular "carnuba" type wax???
> 
> John -- You're right! I really need a snipe tool watching me at all moments to STOP me from all of my crazy junker expenditures!
> 
> TJ


That always happens TJ, I have had it happen to me.
But in the end I was glad I won.
It's only money.

Don't worry about it, just find some sisters for it.
It looks in decent shape.


----------



## tjcruiser

Bruce -- thanks for the "memories"!

Ed -- I'm officially assigning you -- ol' Eagle Eye Ed -- to the hunt ... a 600 Pullman of the same color scheme. Not too pricey, though. Go, Ed ... GO!

TJ


----------



## eljefe

tjcruiser said:


> John -- You're right! I really need a snipe tool watching me at all moments to STOP me from all of my crazy junker expenditures!
> 
> TJ


Oh, you say that now, but this will become one of your greatest treasures after working your restoration magic!


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Bruce -- thanks for the "memories"!
> 
> Ed -- I'm officially assigning you -- ol' Eagle Eye Ed -- to the hunt ... a 600 Pullman of the same color scheme. Not too pricey, though. Go, Ed ... GO!
> 
> TJ


I will keep an eye open for them.

What is the lever sticking up on the top in the center?


----------



## pookybear

Ed,

that is for the "Roof latch system" there is one on the other side as well.
side both of these in the same direction and the operate a kind of clamp
inside that releases the roof from the body.

Pookybear


----------



## Big Ed

pookybear said:


> Ed,
> 
> that is for the "Roof latch system" there is one on the other side as well.
> side both of these in the same direction and the operate a kind of clamp
> inside that releases the roof from the body.
> 
> Pookybear


Thanks, I never noticed those before. 
I guess they did not use them for that long.
Do you know how many years they came like that?


----------



## pookybear

big ed said:


> Thanks, I never noticed those before.
> I guess they did not use them for that long.
> Do you know how many years they came like that?


Not really, not a big lionel guy per say. I know sometime around 1932 or 1933
they were used. But other than that... I do not really know. 

Pookybear


----------



## tjcruiser

Ed, Pook,

I was surprised with the roof latch system, too. Spring loaded "jaws" on the inside/underside of the roof that grab a center pin on the shell. Neat design. First time I've seen one firsthand.

I must say that the roof on this 601 car fits more nicely and with tighter tolerances than the roofs on my 610/611 cars. On those, I had to grind down the "corners" of the shell cab a bit to get the roof to seat properly.

TJ


----------



## pookybear

tjcruiser said:


> Ed, Pook,
> 
> I was surprised with the roof latch system, too. Spring loaded "jaws" on the inside/underside of the roof that grab a center pin on the shell. Neat design. First time I've seen one firsthand.
> 
> I must say that the roof on this 601 car fits more nicely and with tighter tolerances than the roofs on my 610/611 cars. On those, I had to grind down the "corners" of the shell cab a bit to get the roof to seat properly.
> 
> TJ


Well that suprised me TJ, would have thought you would have come 
across one of these before in your travels. They work great but I do not
know why Lionel used theses in the first place. Lionel's MO was to make 
things cheaper and more streamlined in manufacture. However this
latch system replaced a simple screw that held down the roof of earlier
cars. Quite a few pieces are involved in the roof latch system and it 
had to take a bit of time to assemble as well.

Pookybear


----------



## tjcruiser

pookybear said:


> TJ, would have thought you would have come
> across one of these before in your travels.


I really haven't fiddled with passenger cars very much. Mostly locos and some freight cars on my end. I bought my 610/611 set off of ebay (pics), only to do a jaw-drop gasp when they arrived and I saw they were twice the size of my beloved 1681 locos! Fixed 'em up anyway, and now have a nice (big!) 238 and 262 to stick 'em behind.

Still learning about passenger cars ... lots more to learn ...

TJ


----------



## pookybear

Hello again everyone,

Thought I would share the most recent two Ebay buys with everyone. I had
not been doing to much train stuff as of late because of the push of other
hobbies but could not pass on these two items.










The Union Star Line by Ives from 1918-24










The Salt Lake Route by Ives from 1918-24. This one broke the bank, but
very happy I got it.

Pookybear


----------



## tjcruiser

Nice, Pook ... love the litho work on those!


----------



## pookybear

tjcruiser said:


> Nice, Pook ... love the litho work on those!


Thank you TJ,

Seems to be the major reason why I buy them. Back in day when kids
toys were art.

Pookybear


----------



## T-Man

They are nice, you always have interesting items to show.
Especially the things I can't afford:laugh: :thumbsup:


----------



## Big Ed

pookybear said:


> Thank you TJ,
> 
> Seems to be the major reason why I buy them. Back in day when kids
> toys were art.
> 
> Pookybear


Nice, They are all metal cars?

They have a nice patina to them.:thumbsup:
You going to just clean them up a little?


----------



## steam chaser

Absolutely beautiful work TJ,Thanks,Don


----------



## tjcruiser

Thank you, Don. Much appreciated.

TJ


----------



## pookybear

big ed said:


> Nice, They are all metal cars?
> 
> They have a nice patina to them.:thumbsup:
> You going to just clean them up a little?


Big Ed,

Yes all metal cars. And no I do not clean them. You can wear the
litho right off of them. 

Pookybear


----------



## Big Ed

pookybear said:


> Big Ed,
> 
> Yes all metal cars. And no I do not clean them. You can wear the
> litho right off of them.
> 
> Pookybear



Did you ever buy one and open the doors and find something inside?


----------



## pookybear

big ed said:


> Did you ever buy one and open the doors and find something inside?


A waded up newspaper once. >.> But nothing good has ever turned up 
inside of a box car. 

Pookybear


----------



## Big Ed

pookybear said:


> A waded up newspaper once. >.> But nothing good has ever turned up
> inside of a box car.
> 
> Pookybear



It would be nice to open it up and find a wad of old bills that the hubby hid from the Mrs back in the 20's.

It does happen.


----------



## tjcruiser

How many wads of bills are YOU hiding from the Mrs. in your trains, Ed ??? Huh ????

Pretty sneaky, Ed .... pretty sneaky ...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Never thought of that, I can hide a lot of money in those trains.  Of course, if she happens to get really mad and sells them, I'd feel really bad!


----------



## SteveC

big ed said:


> Did you ever buy one and open the doors and find something inside?


I found a yellow metal wind-up walking chick in a Marx box car once. It is in my curio cabinet now. The bride finally relented and I now have almost two of the shelves in the cabinet with fishing reels, toys etc. 

Steve


----------



## Big Ed

SteveC said:


> I found a yellow metal wind-up walking chick in a Marx box car once. It is in my curio cabinet now. The bride finally relented and I now have almost two of the shelves in the cabinet with fishing reels, toys etc.
> 
> Steve



Cool a metal windup metal chick. Does it work? 

Did you ever research it?

Probably Marx. 
Post a picture.:thumbsup:


We have a curio unit too, I have not any of my (quote) "junk" in it.
I let her have it. nice guy I am.

I got the den/cellar & garage for my "junk".


----------



## SteveC

big ed said:


> Cool a metal windup metal chick. Does it work?
> 
> Did you ever research it?
> 
> Probably Marx.
> Post a picture.:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> We have a curio unit too, I have not any of my (quote) "junk" in it.
> I let her have it. nice guy I am.
> 
> I got the den/cellar & garage for my "junk".


Yes, it does work, but no I have not done any research on it, I think it was made in early post war Japan. It does work, I was able to find another wind up bird with the original box that is clearly from the same manufacturer. I am at work now, but I will look at it when I get home and post an update. The Marx car came from a garage sale find that my mom purchased for me, probably in the early 80's. She has been gone since 1989, so I have had it a long time. There were a New Haven box car and a cattle car plus a NYC gondola I think. I will have to look at them again also. Thanks for the memories!
Steve


----------



## T-Man

*tenders*

Right out of Antique Alley
Both are O scale prewar tenders, the one on the right is American Flyer. it belongs ro a 1939 403 2-4-4


----------



## tjcruiser

Ahhh! We're under attack! It's Jurassic Park, and the dinos have all been let loose!

(Neat animated logo!)

Beautiful tenders. You've had the one on the left (or one very similar to it) for a while, right? The handrails and ladder really add a great touch of class to that style of tender.

I have a somewhat similar 262T tender for my 262 loco. It's missing its tinplate, drop-in "coal load", though. Is the coal load a "drop in" on that Lionel tender of yours?

TJ


----------



## T-Man

Here is a shot of both coal loads. The AF has coal the Lionel is just an insert.











259T with four wheels.Before Paint










ANd after paint.









New one is a 261t 0r 262t. Both were availble in 1934 and came with 259e engines.










This tender along with the AF tender are new.


----------



## tjcruiser

Thanks, T ... yup ... just a "flat sheet" insert needed for my 262T tender. No coal bumps.

TJ


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## T-Man

I am still not sure of the tender types. Does this look like the piece you need? It's a top of a 259t.

The shown on the bottom.









Both of my tenders the four and eight are made the same.

We need a prewar tender thread.
I haven't figured out the difference between a 261t and a 262t. Then there is the top water tank cover that is not on either of mine. Maybe they are both 259t's with a wheel change.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

I haven't figured out prewar tender variants, either! 

Jeff Kane has the piece I need for my 262T. It's basically a curved/bent rectangular piece of sheet steel. No "ears" like that on your photo.

It looks to me like the parts in your photo are reasonably similar to the 1661T tender that's mated to all of my 1681 locos, except on yours, there's some provisions for extra trim (handrails, ladder, etc.).

Cheers,

TJ


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## etrainman

*My new collection*

Hello folks. I'm new to the model train world - and trains in general. My grandfather passed his set of trains on to me. Mostly prewar pieces. As a kid I spent the occasional hour or two trying to get them running (but had no idea what I was doing).

Now that I'm all grow'd up, I can now see why I couldnt get them running. The power supply is dangerously old, and the cars are in rough shape.

I'm looking forward to restoring them and getting them running again.

Here is a link to my photobucket album. The titles show what I believe each piece to be. Any comments or correction, or additional info is appreciated.

http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/eman1974/Trains/


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## servoguy

etrainman, you better put some insulating pins in the 1122 switch before you try to use it. Check TJ's posts, Big Ed's posts and other posts on restoring old tinplate.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Nice selection *etrainman*, looking forward to your running configuration.


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## T-Man

You have your work cut out for you. The 252 doesn't have a motor, and needs attention. The custom paint on the 1688 and other cars is interesting. They are so unique you can leave them be. You may want to start with the 807 caboose unless you like ugly cars and that one takes the cake.:thumbsup:

Bruce are you sure those are 1122e's? Not all of them were anti derailing.

O fcourse the plastic is Postwar along with the 2037 which is in fine shape and missing the front axles. Here \One axle. The tandem link but I see you already found that. Good.

Leave the tin buildings alone. The 1784 is weird so leave it be until you can find out more.


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## tjcruiser

Etrain,

Nice collection ... all need some work, though.

A simple track loop and a functional tranny might be first. I don't think you showed a pic of your power supply / tranny? Safety first here. Not sure what you have, but you might want to ebay buy something safe / functional (a postwar 1033 tranny, for example).

As for starters on the locos, you migh want to jump into that 1688 black (and red repaint) streamliner loco. We can certainly show you examples here of our gang working on that one.

Regards,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

I might just be able to shake another 1033 loose from my collection.


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## tjcruiser

I haven't really touched my trains in the past couple of weeks ... too busy with other work/family issues. That said, I needed to clear off some room on a table, and moved some of my trains (prewar mostly) over to a desk top. Snapped a pic of the new lineup ...

TJ


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## T-Man

You need a bigger desk.


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## santafe158

It's funny, you don't realize how small those 1681's are until you notice that the huge engine next to them is a 221. Not the biggest loco itself 

Great, colorful lineup


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## etrainman

Thanks all for the input so far. Since I posted, I've actually started removing the paint on the red and black cars. The pictures didn't show it I guess, but it was a really bad paint job. And I do have the front wheels/axle for the 2037 in a little spare parts box I found. THey are now back in place.

The power supply i have appears to be a likely death trap: 
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/eman1974/Trains/Accesories/

The only car that I haven't been able to find any info on is the crane.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/eman1974/Trains/IMG_0776.jpg

Any ideas?


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## gunrunnerjohn

TJ, that's one impressive collection of tin!  Obviously, most of them are refinished, right?


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## pookybear

etrainman said:


> The only car that I haven't been able to find any info on is the crane.
> http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/eman1974/Trains/IMG_0776.jpg
> 
> Any ideas?


Looks German, if not European for sure. For sure not Marklin or Bing does not
look any of there cataloged models. But there were lots makers, Bub, Doll, Fandor, Carette, Issmayer and Ernst Plank to name a few. The problem with
most German makers is this when one went out of business the others 
rushed in to buy all the tooling for making toys. Easy way to expand a line
up of goods offered. 

Looks nice enough as is and untill you can confirm who made it I would
leave it as is. It might be a mistake restoring the crane if it is a from a 
rare maker's offerings.

Pookybear


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, guys ... I DO need a bigger desk! More trains down in the basement!

Yes, John, all of those in that pic have been restored / refinished.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

They looked too good to be found in somebody's attic.


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## Big Ed

I do believe these would fetch a price you wouldn't believe on e bay. 
it all depends on the year of the hand cart but I watched one on e bay go for over $100 bucks. 
Don't ask me why, whoever bought it must have the bucks, the $100 bill to him must be like a dollar to most of us.
He lights his cigars with fifties.

The steamer trunk is cool too, do you have any info on it? I never saw one of those before.














The crane........ I never saw anything like that. Is there ANY markings at all on it? Underneath? 
I will research a little for the crane, let us know if you ever find out.


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## Big Ed

Possible Hornby on the crane.

I found this one what do you think?
It looks almost like yours?


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## Big Ed

The only solid boom cranes I can find are American Flyers.
Maybe a real early Flyer?

Something tells me no.


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## etrainman

No, there are no markings on the crane. And if you guys are having a hard time identifying it, then I'm not going to stand much of a chance. I would point out th at a previous owner painted it the same colour as the some of the other cars. Must be in indication of something...?

The dolly and trunk have no identifying marks either...


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## Big Ed

Further looking how about a JEP crane?














Maybe not yours but the same style?

It was listed in e bay as,

JEP O Gauge Crane Wagon
​

This wagon was made in Paris between 1933-51 by the French model maker called JEP (photo 4). It is catalogue number 4547


Item number: 251062259923
*Item specifics*


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## Big Ed

See this picture?

has a name by the boom swing plate maybe your markings are covered by paint?

Don't give up yet not all the tin men have seen it.

I am not a tin man I don't have many.


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## etrainman

OK, as soon as I posted my last, I found this doing a good image search for Hornby cranes: On the bottom of this page - http://www.ne.jp/asahi/beat/non/loco/locoH2/index2.html

If you look at the detail on the axle mount - it's the exact same pattern as the crane I have. So I can say with some confidence that it's Hornby...?


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## Big Ed

etrainman said:


> OK, as soon as I posted my last, I found this doing a good image search for Hornby cranes: On the bottom of this page - http://www.ne.jp/asahi/beat/non/loco/locoH2/index2.html
> 
> If you look at the detail on the axle mount - it's the exact same pattern as the crane I have. So I can say with some confidence that it's Hornby...?



I can't find any Hornby with a solid boom like yours. Not to say they did not make them.

Maybe it is a real early Hornby?


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