# Reprieving the UP Excursion cars with interior details???



## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

With all the keenly felt disappointment  about these cars and their build quality you might think that this is an exercise in trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear but not so, IMHO. Mine was one of the sets that arrived without any exterior cosmetic defects but I was not going to leave the interiors as Plain Jane as they are.

The signature car of the set is the City of San Francisco dome/lounge/observation. I borrow Aaron’s excellent photo of it to show its proportions and some nice prototypical exterior features:









The inside is a different matter where the design skimps on detail and the color is just dull. I decided to start with the dome seating assembly as I thought that would be the most fiddly in terms of effort and I wanted to get it done. The dome has much better scale proportions than Lionel’s previous efforts including the first run 21” ABS cars. It is, as you will see, able to seat reasonably detailed passenger figures without them looking crammed in: 









But my attention was fixed on the monotonous color and marching ranks of seats. There’s plenty of evidence of what the arrangement and color inside the prototype is/was and of course it's far more interesting: 









At first I was inclined to use the prototype scheme of six 4-seater tables and the brown of what looks like hotel bar upholstery but this got changed at the stage of seeing how it actually translated into O scale. Also, I set myself the task of seeing how much I could finish in just one sitting. That was a stab at self-discipline because my projects tend to get more elaborate as I go. But I had the advantage of having all the tools and parts I thought I’d need for this project already on hand.

The most important tool is the ultra-thin putty spreader used to separate the body shell and frame that are stuck together by the excess tape used to hold the bottoms of the windows in place: 









Someone will no doubt notice that I put four of the coffee sticks used to keep the shell and frame apart in the wrong place but the shell came away without too much trouble and no damage. If you were looking for lousy workmanship in the assembly of these cars you’d find no shortage of it inside especially in the use of masking tape to hold down wires and no effort to remove excess double-sided tape:









Anyway, with the dome seat assembly removed the first thing I did was to test fit various size passengers. I don’t amputate them; Lionel and MTH have both used what are in effect S scale figures that fit in their interiors without need for that. Below the front two rows comprise four such figures, there’s one true O scale figure in the second row (far too big), some OO scale figures at the back (far too small) and a couple of S scale Artistta figures too (slightly on the big side but excellent detail):









Overall the MTH Railking passenger figure sets are the best. Unfortunately I will probably have to paint up a number from the bag of unpainted ones I have. 

Next I worked out the seat placement. All the seats had to be removed and re-installed to get something like the right placement:









The big downside of these domes is that they have no lighting, which is dull too. Lionel put four square holes in the base of the assembly to allow light from underneath to get in but it doesn’t really work to illuminate anything much. I read somewhere that in the prototype dome cars there was actually floor level lighting so without doing any proper research I decided to install a facsimile of it:









The light lenses are actually push buttons sold by Mouser Electronics to hold LED bulbs and they have a Fresnel design like many light fixtures I have seen. Evan Designs provided the four chip LED array that runs off of track power. When on the effect is one I like; the photo below exaggerates the brightness:









A word about the blue seats and "carpet." I was just going to do the seats in brown but had no airbrush paint in the right color. However I did have some strange potion from Tru-Color called “Surf Blue Pearl.” That’s what went on the seats and it looks something like Great Northern sky blue. 

I’ve used Art Deco designs for floor coverings in some of my streamliner era cars as it prints very well on fabric made for inkjet graphics and approximates some of the things used to spruce up passenger cars in the streamliner era. I found this pattern that seemed to me to have some semblance of UP yellow in it. Gone is the dullness of the stock floors with this in place: 









By this stage I was about 5 hours of sustained effort into the project and decided to try placing some tables I scavenged from a spare 18” Lionel diner interior: 









Here I decided I had to call a time out because I don’t want the inside of the car to look like a sea of tabletops. I might put two ordinary tables in the middle and four small round "glass" top tables at the ends. This is a bar lounge car after all. The bar itself is in the belly of the car below the dome; read on. 

To round off this stage I put overhead lighting in the dome and then did a light test. This has probably gone from no lighting to too much but I like the effect:









When I can resume this project next month, I’ll decide on the table arrangements and I have a slew of quarter scale drinks, snacks, glasses etc. to put on them that will be visible through the dome windows. (There's a quarter scale bowl of pretzels on the big table in the overhead view above; amazing what real miniaturists with access to 3D printing can do.)

As a harbinger of what comes after that I offer the below. The parts are also quarter scale stuff, this time laser-cut from basswood. I know they look too big but as the creation of a patriotic-themed bar is my next objective I will be wielding the knife/razor saw on them:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Very cool, if I ever get the time, I may have to emulate that, looks great!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

A seriously great project. Really grand results, too. I love the carpeting you did in the dome. Nice idea with the lights, too.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I did side lights my upgrade of the Reading Crusader, that worked out pretty well. There was no way to put overhead lights in as there was no real structure to hide the lights.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Super fine job!!! And I agree... either side-lighting or floor lighting in the dome is definitely the way to go.

David


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

What a great project with a great outcome.:appl::appl:


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Great project. Thanks for sharing it with us. I'm looking forward to the next update.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Guys, when I saw how both of you put the lights on the floor in the dome cars I wondered what Golden Gate-3rd Rail does with its lighted dome cars. I took one of my Train of Tomorrow Cars (the only 21" cars I have) from its display stand here in the study up and put it on the track to see.

I realized immediately they had an "out" with respect to lighting because the top of the dome is solid metal. Under that they placed two way-too-visible bulbs. It's not bad, but your floor method is better. 

BTW, I checked old photographs on line of the real ToT, and the uppermost part was solid, as the GG-3rd Rail model has it. I wonder what they do with domes that are all glass on top?


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm liking it thus far! Great solution to the lighting issue and the drab interior. The figures images are very helpful to those of us who need more paying customers as well. 

Question: How do you like working with Tru-Color paint? Have you airbrushed with it?


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Volphin said:


> Question: How do you like working with Tru-Color paint? Have you airbrushed with it?


Yes, I used an airbrush to paint the seats. I had to thin the Tru-Color way down using their own proprietary thinner (which is not cheap) to get it to spray without speckling and so the coverage was a matter of applying several coats. Fortunately it's acrylic paint and drys very quickly. I do not claim to be an expert in using it or indeed in airbrush techniques so my experience may not be typical.

But IMO Tru-Color is by far the best available, or available any more, for fidelity to original railroad colors. I do have some old oil-based Floquil in various railroad colors but I have only ever hand brush painted with it; I think that the pigment is too dense for airbrushing.

Tru-Color also make a range of hand brush paints, which I have used for interior details. One issue is that it drys very quickly and if you are not working with a very wet brush over a relatively small area the brush strokes will show. 

All this has made me think that when I come to the bigger seating areas in the main sections of this car I will probably resort to using rattle can paints to get the required degree of cover without having to spend ages refilling and cleaning an airbrush. That would also save time bearing in mind the number of cars (and seats) that have to get this treatment to upgrade the whole set.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

HarborBelt1970 said:


> Yes, I used an airbrush to paint the seats. I had to thin the Tru-Color way down using their own proprietary thinner (which is not cheap) to get it to spray without speckling and so the coverage was a matter of applying several coats. Fortunately it's acrylic paint and drys very quickly. I do not claim to be an expert in using it or indeed in airbrush techniques so my experience may not be typical.
> 
> But IMO Tru-Color is by far the best available, or available any more, for fidelity to original railroad colors. I do have some old oil-based Floquil in various railroad colors but I have only ever hand brush painted with it; I think that the pigment is too dense for airbrushing.
> 
> ...


On my latest project (more on that after York!) I airbrushed Tamiya, Vallejo, and Model Master Acrylics. I found out that Vallejo is really nice paint, but has to be thinned with their proprietary thinner as well... which is basically Windex. Smells the same and acts the same. If you thin it with anything else, it clumps (and clogs airbrushes nicely! :laugh: ). Vallejo manually brushes on very well without thinner and the dry time hides the brush strokes. 

I have also created custom colors using a Model Master base and adding in Vallejo paint as a tinting pigment and Tamiya as a lightening pigment. I thin these with Tamiya standard thinner.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I did side lights my upgrade of the Reading Crusader, that worked out pretty well. There was no way to put overhead lights in as there was no real structure to hide the lights.
> 
> View attachment 436794


I think your effort is far more effective than mine! But as the UP car's dome assembly is configured with a walkway below the level of the seats and table floors, which is prototypical, I did not have much option other than to put floor lighting there.



Lee Willis said:


> Guys, when I saw how both of you put the lights on the floor in the dome cars I wondered what Golden Gate-3rd Rail does with its lighted dome cars. I took one of my Train of Tomorrow Cars (the only 21" cars I have) from its display stand here in the study up and put it on the track to see.
> 
> I realized immediately they had an "out" with respect to lighting because the top of the dome is solid metal. Under that they placed two way-too-visible bulbs. It's not bad, but your floor method is better.
> 
> ...


I don't mind the GGD lighting as the LEDs looks like light fixtures to me and in the TofT domes they provide sufficient illumination. 

I haven't got, nor have I seen, any GGD domes that do not have a solid section in the roof. They use the same LED strip on all the dome cars I have and it's too big for anything without a solid section. I know Scott Mann has had complaints about the size of these strips and the way they are visible in GGD cars and I would not be surprised to find that they are changed for something smaller in future cars. 

So far as I have researched this I think that in dome cars like GRJ's above which had glass roofs there was either no overhead lighting or strip lighting in a parallel pair of the glass frames. (I can't lay my hands on a photo I have of such an arrangement.) I have wondered about rigging up something like a light bar to simulate this using a chip, pico or nano LED at the end of a fiber optic rod if the rod could be made to emit light along its length. I think that's possible with some plastic rod made by Plastruct and Lionel actually produced something like it for the VL Centipedes to illuminate the motorized roof fan enclosures. But this is not necessary in any of the domes on which I plan to work!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The floor lighting came out great in yours, I may yet give that a try in a future project. I still have a bunch of dome cars that don't have LED's yet, so I'll probably get a chance.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2018)

Wonderful conversion of the dome. Very disappointing they way it arrived from Lionel. 

No more Lionel 21" cars for us. Thank goodness for K-Line passenger cars.


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

*HarborBelt1970 wrote:*
_*"I’ve used Art Deco designs for floor coverings in some of my streamliner era cars as it prints very well on fabric made for inkjet graphics..."*_

HarborB,
What I found that works good for floors and wall panels is 8.5" X 11" shipping labels. Find a design that works and print it out on the label. Then just cut, peel & stick.

Below is an example of both the floor and interior walls done using this technique.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Big Jim said:


> HarborB,
> What I found that works good for floors and wall panels is 8.5" X 11" shipping labels. Find a design that works and print it out on the label. Then just cut, peel & stick.
> 
> Below is an example of both the floor and interior walls done using this technique.


I've used adhesive labels too and agree that they work well to simulate solid flooring and wall coverings as in your example, which is certainly realistic. But for "carpet" I got stuck on inkjet printing fabric because it is actually woven and so the surface resembles scale 3 dimensional carpet especially under bright lighting (which I have certainly got now in this dome).

The other thing is that there is inkjet printable peel and stick vinyl, which I have used for things like posters/wall art inside of cars and also tablecloths. The latter is probably going to get used in this or the other dome car in the Excursion set and certainly in the Overland Diner when/if I ever get that far!


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

*UPDATED 6 May*

So where I got to with this project last month was that I had decided I could not duplicate the actual UP Excursion dome interior - because what would be seen from the outside looking in (as opposed to the grand views my passengers would have looking out) would be mostly white tabletops. Prototypical, sure, but boring. 

Thus, I decided to have just two full tables in the center portion of the dome and the rest scaled-down round cocktail/snack tables.

Now, for me a big part of the fun of a project of this kind is sourcing the scratchbuilding materials to do it. In fact the materials more often than not dictate what you can execute as a design rather than what you start with on the drawing board. For the round tables, I wanted something that would resemble green-edge glass and came across these nice acrylic rods in various diameters:









Unfortunately, in the course of scaling down, and given that my cutting and polishing skills are second only to my complete absence of metalworking ability, the glass effect is much reduced, but the tables still allow the other details to be seen. Here’s an overhead view of the arrangement:









Everything you see on the tables is “quarter scale” stuff normally used for dioramas and room models. The people who make this stuff must be doing it for the love of their art because the level of detail for just ¢ in terms of cost is phenomenal – note how the potato chip bags are even crumpled!









I also have found a use for the rods in phase 2 of this project, of which more when I get to that at about the Memorial Day (2018) break.

All of the passenger figures are either K-Line or Railking. There’s not a vast variety of them and I have figuratively got to know them all. One diner comes stock holding a plate of what looks like green engine sludge or gopher guts and out of respect for UP catering I was going to change it to a blue plate special - but then I thought, let people use their imaginations: 









So the whole dome construct is finished and installed back in the car and here it is illuminated:









On to phase 2, which is the bar area just below the dome. My usual research sources turned up absolutely nothing about the prototype other than this floor plan I already had:









As I have mentioned before, the moulded interior assembly for this area Lionel installed in these ABS cars has various structures that make no sense in terms of what shows through the windows of the cars. My guess is that these are probably modelled on Budd-built interiors, not ACF’s: 









I ended up cutting away just about all the internal partitions except for those that will house the wiring for the new lighting, and kept the area seating in one piece in case I can recycle it somewhere:









If this looks a bit rough in places bear in mind that you can cover a multitude of finishing defects with floor and wall coverings, which is what I intend to do. This will be a bar area with a patriotic theme and I have started building the main components:









The big divider unit is based on one of those amazing laser-cut wooden kits and will be open at both ends so that the area is visible through the windows on each side of this section of the car. Needless to say the shelves will be stocked with suitable medicinal compounds:









The seating areas at the forward and rear observation areas of this car will be phases 3 and 4 – hopefully much simpler to do although the plan is for a maximum of color and, of course, lighting.


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## Guest (May 6, 2018)

Great work, takes a lot of patience with this project.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

This will be a masterpiece, not doubt about it! I love the dome furnishing, that's really nice!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Very, very, very cool.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Amazing work. Are the bottles and glassware store bought or did you turn them using your acrylic rods? Either way its over the top!









Pete


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Wow, this thread is a nice discovery. Excellent research, technique and artistry.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Norton said:


> Amazing work. Are the bottles and glassware store bought or did you turn them using your acrylic rods? Either way its over the top! Pete


I agree it’s all OTT but fun nonetheless.

No, I could not possibly turn the bottles and glassware from acrylic rods. They are store bought in the sense that they are 3D printed in clear plastic filament from various people who sell “quarter scale” items. At the size that they are any imperfections in finish/painting tend to disappear.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Wow this is a great project! The quarter scale dollhouse items look perfect. Can't wait for the bar to be finished... I'm thirsty!


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Not sure how I missed this tread until now!

I'm impressed. Very nice work. 

I think you definitely lead the pack in how to do proper interiors! Can't wait to see more.

Thanks, 

Aaron


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

Wow! nicely done .Your detail work is first rate.:appl:


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

*Phase 2 mostly done*

So, where this project had got to before Memorial Day was that I had gutted the lower section under the dome in preparation to build a patriotic-themed bar:









I had already sourced and started to construct a laser-cut quarter scale Art Deco display cabinet that was to form the divider between the bar and the passage on one side of the car. I paused this to work on the centerpiece of the whole area, which is of course the bar itself. 

Here I wanted to make use of some of the nice glass green acrylic rod I had got to build cocktail tables in the dome section. I was pretty sure that this rod would radiate light if illuminated with an LED fixed at one end and sure enough, it did, so I designed a “Blue Bar” (or bar for people who are blue) using the rod as light columns on each end: 









The photo distorts the brightness of the lighting and in fact the columns remain transparent. As a lifelong devotee of aquarium cars, I was sorely tempted to put a backing on them with fish printed on as they would have shown when lit, but these parts turned out to be too small for that treatment. However, I’ll do it in another one of the Excursion cars - if/when I ever get that far. 

There’s a double sink installed at the right end of the bar, which is another quarter scale 3D printed product about which more below. The paint is a Testor’s metallic blue from a rattle can I have had around for years, which fortunately worked and boy does it shimmer – like something on a brand new 70s muscle car.

I then put a second face panel on the divider so that it would look the same whichever side of the car it’s viewed from. This took some working out of exactly what view the windows on each side of the car would show, which in fact you can’t do accurately just by line of sight through the windows. There are three on the walkway/passage (left) side of the car and two on the other; blue lines below show what was directly opposite each left window in the stock interior assembly and red the same for the two right windows:









The stock assembly had mostly interior partitions right in the way of the windows but it was uninteresting anyway and I’d already removed almost all the partitions. I then “carpeted” the area and installed the divider and some other patriotic pieces I had sourced:









The painted white metal Statute of Liberty sits on another acrylic rod column although I decided against lighting this one as it looked kitsch (yeah, I know the whole thing’s kitsch but even I have my limits where national symbols are concerned). The Old Glory and “Land of the Free” plaques are more laser-cut parts, which by sheer dumb luck happened to fit perfectly on two remaining partitions.

Now for the barflies – I mean distinguished patriotic passengers. I put the divider unit and bar in place and started populating the area. Here’s two photos of the crowd (so far) in different light. The top dimmer one is probably most prototypical – bars are meant to be dark, right? But the other one is more how it will look with the stock LED illumination above:









This is a relatively tame crowd made up of old K-Line, Railking and eBay Hong Kong O scale figures, the latter all being nearly 7 scale feet tall so midsection surgery was performed in a couple of cases. One Railking figure, Redcoat Silver Medallion Lady, is a favorite of mine and appears in all of the passenger cars I have re-built so far (all three of them). However, I think I will have to make one or two less reputable bar patrons to go in this area. Meanwhile, that vintage hand operated cash register must have last been cranked up in the 1940s because the price it records is 15¢. All the drinks the barman is serving up are 3D printed quarter scale stuff, which is incredibly detailed.

It's more obvious in the fifth photo above but on the walkway/passage side, I ended up having to inset the divider unit into the walkway because the dome seating assembly above it projects down into this area quite a lot and I had not allowed enough overhead clearance for it:









You can’t really see the sink unit very clearly in this or any of the photos but it’s in line with one of the windows and I am most proud of the vintage Palmolive green dishwater in it (Magic Water tinted green with glass paint), one side with plates and the other with glasses. 

I am pretty sure my whole arrangement violates health & safety, hygiene and workmen’s comp. regulations but then this scene is completely imaginary. 

Last thing for now, which isn’t imaginary; on the far right of the last photo is a scaled down 1940s wartime poster, one of a few I plan to use in this car. There’s a treasure trove of these available and as a piece of Americana they are hard to top:









Phase 3, the rear seating area of the excursion car, and indeed phase 4, the forward section of the car, have already started with the deconstruction of the stock parts I think I can “improve”. I sincerely hope these will be less time-consuming than the first two phases have turned out to be but unfortunately all my projects get more elaborate as they go on. And on.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2018)

Really very goods work. Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

HarborBelt1970, So glad to see your next phase. I am so impressed and learning a lot from you build. It looks terrific. Thanks for posting.


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

Nice work love the bar.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Really fantastic. I love the poster idea, too.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Very nice work, HB.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

*Phases 3 and 4 reached*

So I have got through most of Phase 3 of this project and indeed the final Phase 4, which are respectively the rear observation part of the City of San Francisco dome lounge car and the forward section. 

Both ends have prototypical window placement and the interior of the rear section is the closest to accurate I have seen in any of the Lionel 21" ABS cars; it conforms to UP's floor plan of this section:









The moulding used for this is interesting as the 10 oval tables with cup/drink recesses in them are not separately applied parts, which I assume Lionel did to avoid extra hand assembly time:









But I didn't like the fact that the metal frame shows underneath them or that it would be very difficult to get the wood finish that the originals have (see the photo of the interior of the prototype below). So I cut them out for separate painting and made the floor solid. Below is the deconstructed assembly primed and with the pattern for the "carpet" cut and (skipping all the intermediate steps) the whole thing reassembled after painting:









Looking at this photo, I might have left the interior in this state and not gone overboard on the passenger population. But nothing succeeds like excess and I dived in head first with the little characters and numerous food and drink accents. So here's the two sides of this compartment fully populated:









Two of the passengers are particularly distinctive characters. One is Red Nose Man holding aloft a beer stein and the other is Pink Granny with her mits not only on a Martini but a whole bottle of London gin:









I have one detail left to finish in this section. Peering at the UP photo of it, I saw that there are three partitions (marked below) that are part of the major wood panelling refurbishment the car got at some stage: 









I am very keen on partitions and decided to try to render some reasonable facsimiles of these. They are basically Art Deco designs and although in hunting around for some glass etchings of that period I could duplicate I found nothing close, I did come across some glass doors in an amazing rendition of the Chrysler Building. So in that went at the front end of the section:









At this point, I got impatient with dealing with really fiddly small parts and the fact that the body shell had the wires for the internal lighting hanging down. So all the wiring has been fixed in place both in the body and the frame. Fortunately with these cars there's just enough space between the plastic floor and the metal frame to run insulated wires. My wiring will no doubt make an electrician cringe but it passed what my electrical engineer elder brother calls my "smoke test" meaning that when I put power to everything for the first time it did not go up in it:









There is only one window on one side of the forward section of this car so the very front of the interior is not visible and that's where I have placed the power source for the LEDs that are not wired direct to track power (using the Evan Designs products that have their own regulated power source). I have re-purposed one of GRJ's passenger car interior power modules for this as I found that smaller power sources were not adequate to the task, maybe because all the lighting connected is wired in parallel.

The rest of Phase 4 is putting an interior in the small part of the forward section that is visible. In the prototype this is the men's and ladies' "lounges" = rest rooms. So some scope for mischief there although I have not decided exactly how much yet!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Just amazing detail. :appl:


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Great work. Your research and skill at finding the different components is amazing. The partitions are beautiful and look terrific. Mischief in the "lounges" will peek our interest to see what you come up with. Thank you for your excellent work and postings on this project.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2018)

Terrific job.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Impressed again!

I should hire you to do mine!


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

86TA355SR said:


> I should hire you to do mine!


Even if I was for hire, my delivery period would obviously be longer than Atlas - let alone Lionel.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suspect to get a duplicate of this car would be around $2,000!  You've crammed an amazing amount of detail in there. :thumbsup:


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

you guys are amazing, I do not see this happening in any of my N scale stuff. Even if I had the ability to get anything that small, I couldn't see it!!!!

Thank you for sharing this.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Oh wow. That is just too cool.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I suspect to get a duplicate of this car would be around $2,000!  You've crammed an amazing amount of detail in there. :thumbsup:


Yeah, and a big part of that price would be the John Will & Associates LED constant voltage power module - NOT; worth every cent :smilie_daumenpos:

Cramming in detail stuff; yeah, I have always done that, starting with model cars way back when (Nixon was still President).


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