# Direct replacment for Horn-Hook couplers?



## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

So most of the trains I've got are Bachman, LifeLike and a few Tyco with Horn-Hook couplers. I have one train with the Bachman EZ-Mate couplers and like them. 

My question is, are EZ mate couplers direct replacement for the Horn-Hooks without further modification? If not, is there a similar coupler that is? 

There's a good chance that some say I might go all Kadee, but I just haven't got the time or inclination right now to go about installing new couplers and mounting boxes on all my cheap cars.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

There's a variety of different shank styles and lengths among ready to run cars with Horn- Hook (X2f) couplers. Easiest is to buy the Kadee talgo coversion kit for converting cars with truck mounted couplers. They work well and are simple to install on Tyco, Model Power, and Bachmann rolling stock. Older AHM and Roco, and some Lima, are more work because of the mounting style.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

go to the kadee web site and either look at coupler conversions or downloads it as a pdf


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

J.C. said:


> go to the kadee web site and either look at coupler conversions or downloads it as a pdf


This question has come up several times lately. I can never remember that part number.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Eilif said:


> There's a good chance that some say I might go all Kadee, but I just haven't got the time or inclination right now to go about installing new couplers and mounting boxes on all my cheap cars.


On a lot of my 'cheaper' cars like Tyco, I replace the horn-hooks directly with Bachmann EZ-mates. I do use the conversion part from the Kadee 20-series couplers though - it locks in the coupler and keeps it from flopping around.

As time warp said, there are some brands that aren't so easy - you'll just have to dive in and see what works and what doesn't, and 'modify as needed' from there.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

When replacing hook horn couplers, its always a temptation to buy the cheapest coupler looking replacement. They're ok if you're only going to be running short trains, i.e. a max of about 10 cars maybe, but beyond that, the cheap, plastic shanks won't stand up to the loads of longer trains and they will flex and twist thus the couplers come apart. People will eventually find that Kadee metal shank couplers are the sure replacement after they have already spent the money on the cheaper couplers. So by trying to save a few cents on couplers, you will end up spending much more by going the cheap, non-coupler first then replacing them with Kadee.


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## NAJ (Feb 19, 2016)

I went the other way.
Last year I purchased a Bachmann NS GP-38-2 that of course came with EZ-Mate couplers.
All of my rolling stock is older with standard Horn Hook couplers so I removed the EZ Mate couplers and installed a Horn Hook coupler on the new loco.

I had to use a Rat Tail file to slightly open the Horn Hook coupler opening so it would properly fit/function on the new loco.

The point of this...
Apparently the EZ-Mate coupler is slightly larger than the Horn Hook.
How that works out opposite...???


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Thanks for the advice and perspectives folks. 

1/3 of what I've got is EZ mate already. Also, the layout I'm putting together...
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=146993&page=3
...probably won't allow for trains longer than 10 cars. 

Money is a factor but at this point I'm thinking more about the time vs effort. My main focus is on getting the layout built with the limited free time I have. So, if slapping on a bunch of ez-mate's (that presumeably are drop-in conversions for the old bachman hooks) gets my cars running more quickly so my son can run a few trains while I continue work on the layout that is quite appealing. 

Lastly, if at some point I purchase some higher-quality cars I'd probably put kadee's on them (assuming they didn't already come with them) Kaydee and EZ mate are compatible right?

Lots to consider.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

i believe this is the clip needed to insert a kadee knuckle style coupler. 
24 for 2.99 and some shipping. 

Tell ya what, i've got a few cars to convert, i'll go ahead and order some and let you know how it works out. i need to grab a few other things anyways.

















http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Kadee-212-Talgo-Truck-Adaptors-p/kad-212.htm


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## sachsr1 (Mar 3, 2016)

Eilif said:


> There's a good chance that some say I might go all Kadee, but I just haven't got the time or inclination right now to go about installing new couplers and mounting boxes on all my cheap cars.


I started off by making a few "adapter" cars. They had hook horns on one end, and Kadee on the other. I didn't have to change out every piece of rolling stock.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Jim, there are a couple of other parts in the kit, such as bushings, that adapt more brands and types of mountings. The twist in retainer pictured works perfectly on Tyco cars and locomotives with a #5, and I would assume, the #148 as well.

Eilif, maybe for now you could just make a conversion car or two, with a horn hook at one end. You could sort out the rest later.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

sachsr1 said:


> I started off by making a few "adapter" cars. They had hook horns on one end, and Kadee on the other. I didn't have to change out every piece of rolling stock.


There you go! Great minds..........


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

time warp said:


> There you go! Great minds..........


I do this too, i also have a couple with a brittish style coupler on one end, kadee on the other, then also a brittish/horn hook adapter.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

What? You're like Edward Scissorhands with couplers! You keep doing that and you'll upset the space/time continuom! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

An adaptor car does sound like a good way to go. I'll give that serious consideration. When I get a chance I'll take a few pictures of some of the hook couplers I'm dealing with. 



santafealltheway said:


> Tell ya what, i've got a few cars to convert, i'll go ahead and order some and let you know how it works out. i need to grab a few other things anyways.


I look forward to hearing how it goes!


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

santafealltheway said:


> i believe this is the clip needed to insert a kadee knuckle style coupler.
> 24 for 2.99 and some shipping.
> 
> Tell ya what, i've got a few cars to convert, i'll go ahead and order some and let you know how it works out. i need to grab a few other things anyways.
> ...


This is also necessary for the Bachmann EZ-mates. I buy the 20-series for the couplers as well, so it's not a waste to by them just for this clip. I wonder if these are available separately?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

JNXT 7707 said:


> This is also necessary for the Bachmann EZ-mates. I buy the 20-series for the couplers as well, so it's not a waste to by them just for this clip. I wonder if these are available separately?


Bachmann EZ-mates are technically Kadee-compatible. Personally, I don't replace them, or McHenrys, or Accu-mates or any other plastic knockoff, until they start giving me trouble. Sometimes that takes years.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

4 more hours and they should be at my door step lol.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Excellent. 
I expect a prompt, detailed and thorough report on their suitaiblity!
;-)


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

lol the mail didnt even come today... 

tomorrow i guess


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

OKAY! Mail finally came. Now i have enough track to finish my turn around loop. Huzzah!

Now for the coupler thingys.

Here they are! 24 of em. I go the pic too, but.. I'm honestly not sure how i'm supposed to use it, so if you buy some of these, i wouldn't bother buying the installation pick. they just sort of snap in place on their own.









The install was a breeze, just slide in the kadee coupler, and pop in the little clip, it will make a click sound. The alignment seems to be right on target!










Looks pretty good. I used the "Whisker" style couplers. (#148) I feel like using a number 5 would be a big pain in the rear end with that little springy. The side to side spring action is good. Still uncouples over magnets.










Here's an over view. I was a bit confused looking at the instructions online, it appears to show a twisting action. 
But no, the pic is NOT a screw driver as i suspected, these things just drop straight in and Click.










My prognosis: :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Nice!
So just to be clear you got the Kaydee #148 coulpers and the #212 Adaptors and they just snapped right into a stock bachman truck? That seems really easy!

What is number 5?

I don't really want to bother with modifying a bunch of cheap stock to be body-mounted especially when truck mounted should put them all at the same height so I might well go this way.

Thanks so much for showing this.


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## EForbes (Dec 1, 2017)

I have to get some of those, i have only 5 cars to do, but with this i can gain more low price cars and convert them.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

The #148 has an integral "whisker" style centering spring, the #5 uses a separate leaf style spring. Use either one.


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## grpaine (Jun 18, 2016)

I have over 100 old rolling stock that I’m just starting to use. 90% of them have Horn-Hook couplers. About half of those are body mount, half truck mount. I want to start converting the body mount cars. Eilif didn’t say but you experienced guys seemed to assume that he had truck mounted couplers. Is that because he said he had “Bachman, LifeLike and a few Tyco”? I have no idea who the manufacturers are of my cars.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Typically, Tyco, older Roco, Bachmann, Life Like, AHM, and Model Power will have truck mount, or "talgo" style couplers. Eilif stated that he had these types of cars I believe.
Most cars that already have body mount couplers are generally very easy to convert, and more than likely a Kadee #5 or #148 is a drop-in.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

time warp said:


> The #148 has an integral "whisker" style centering spring, the #5 uses a separate leaf style spring. Use either one.


I did try putting a #5 in, it didnt go particularly well.

I say for sure use the 148


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

grpaine said:


> I have over 100 old rolling stock that I’m just starting to use. 90% of them have Horn-Hook couplers. About half of those are body mount, half truck mount. I want to start converting the body mount cars. Eilif didn’t say but you experienced guys seemed to assume that he had truck mounted couplers. Is that because he said he had “Bachman, LifeLike and a few Tyco”? I have no idea who the manufacturers are of my cars.


unless you 're set on usind the knuckle couplers for magnetic uncoupling, there's nothing wrong with the horn hooks.

I suggest making a few adapter cars, horn hook on one end and knuckle on the other.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

santafealltheway said:


> I did try putting a #5 in, it didnt go particularly well.
> 
> I say for sure use the 148


Not being a wise guy, but that's what the install tool is for. I used the #5 which works fine when you twist and lock the retainer in place.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

santafealltheway said:


> unless you 're set on usind the knuckle couplers for magnetic uncoupling, there's nothing wrong with the horn hooks.


That's definitely open for debate. I have had all manner of issues with them, including staying coupled or getting them to couple in the first place, not to mention not having the staying power of a metal coupler like Kadee or Walthers.

If it were me, I'd replace them a quickly as practical.


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## grpaine (Jun 18, 2016)

I have 1 engine with a horn-hook on the rear and a couple conversion cars. Eventually I will replace all of the horn-hook couplers with Kadee #148's or equivalent. Having a mix seems like it would complicate operations. While replacing the couplers I also want to install metal wheel sets and/or replace trucks for reliable ones and add weights if needed. I guess it's time to start reading up about wheel and weight recommendations. This forum sure is great !!!


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

grpaine said:


> This forum sure is great !!!


It really is. I've only been here a few weeks and have learned a ton!

At this point I've abandoned my plan to go with EZ Mate's and will be going with (or at least trying first) 148's and 212 Adaptors on my cheap Life-Like and Bachman cars with Truck Mounted couplers. 

I just discovered that there's a train shop called "Zientek" very near me so I'll head over there soon and see if he's got any.


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## NAJ (Feb 19, 2016)

I only have a 4' x 6' layout with a 3' x 5' oval mainline using older rolling stock (AHM, Bachmann, Lifelike, Tyco) all with Truck Mounted Horn Hook Couplers and it took me a lot of trial and error to find six cars that play well together.(Stay coupled and on the track)

IMO, find the rolling stock you like and want to run on your mainline and try them as they are to see how they react to being pulled in a consist and which pieces are causing problems and then start your upgrading so you can see what difference the upgrades make.

Also, you may want to look into getting a NMRA Standards Gauge.

http://mrr.trains.com/videos/expert-tips/2011/09/video-how-to-use-an-nmra-gauge


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I finally got around to swapping in horn-hooks on Talgos with 212 adapotors on 21 Tyco train cars. I ended up using Bachman EZ-mate's after finding them for about 5 cents each at a swap meet. Full details and pictures here...
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=154722&page=5
...but two things I wanted to add to this discussion.
1) While EZ mate's drop easily into these Tyco talgo's I had to trim the two whiskers a bit to get the nice kadee-like lateral movement. 
2)I put them in by hand after removing the trucks from the body. I found that while they could be pressed straight in, the twisting motion shown on the package was easiest because the shaft is thinner in one dimension than the other..


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Although the problem with using EZ-Mates is that before too long, you will find yourself replacing them again as the plastic shank and knuckle wear out.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

With couplers, as with most things....you get what you pay for....metal Kadee or Walthers proto couplers are worth it!


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

CT and Hobo,
It's a fair point you make but at 10 cents a car i don't mind possibly having to replace them in the future. This is a quick-and-dirty project and kind of an exercise to see what can be accomplished with fast techiques on a limited budget.

I've bought a couple packs of Kadee's and they'll go on my better-quality rolling stock. I may even body mount them, something that would have been more of a hassle with these Tyco Hoppers that have no mounting area on the body and give you almost no space to mount them to on the center sill. Here's the sill of a hopper I purchased at a swap meet. Identical to the others, except that it came with Kadee's on it already. 










However, in a nice discovery, this body mounted kadee comes to exactly the same height as the Talgo mounted EZ's I put on the others.


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

Switch to Kadee #5 couplers and be done with it. They are really all you need.

-J.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Mr.Buchholz said:


> Switch to Kadee #5 couplers and be done with it. They are really all you need.
> 
> -J.


Seriously fellas, if you looked at the topic I most recently linked to, this current project is a super-cheap, super-fast project using one-dollar Tyco Hoppers and talgo-mounted couplers.

I know that Kadee's are a higher quality option (though #148's are better suited for talgo replacement than #5's) and I will be using them for my better quality cars, but unless someone know's where I can buy kadee's for 10 cents a piece then the EZ's are the best fit for this particular project at this particular time.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I guess there is some sense in putting 10 cent couplers on a fifty cent car.....go for it! :thumbsup:


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> I guess there is some sense in putting 10 cent couplers on a fifty cent car.....go for it! :thumbsup:


Thanks!
I plan to tally and list the costs involved when I finish the project. I'm aiming for less than $50 for 20 hoppers (10 loaded, 10 empties) including all cars, parts and paints. We'll see if I can make it...


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