# eBay



## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

I decided to take the plunge and go to eBay to look for locomotives. So far I am 0-5 in winning. Sales tax and shipping charges are killing sales for me. I figure tax and shipping into the price to acquire any item. So because of that I refuse to over pay. An extreme example I have been watching was a 372 UP "Made By American Flyer" version. Since I already have 2 "Made by Gilbert" 372's, one in very nice condition, the other good, I've always wanted a "Made by American Flyer" version. The one I was watching sold for $540.90!! An engine worth no more than $200 goes for double plus? That doesn't include sales tax and shipping. Not only that, there were 21 bids. Yes it was very nice and it is a rarer version than the "Made By Gilbert" but come on. $540.90??? They aren't that rare in nice condition. I should have bought one years ago when I bought my "Gilbert" one. Now I'll have to watch other ones to see if this was a fluke of being people being mentally challenged from being couped up in their houses or was that Stimulus checks being spent??

Kenny


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Keep watching. 21 bids will result in too high. I think you have to figure in shipping and any tax.
You will bid on more items than you win. You have seen some of the deals I have got. I only bid
in last 10 seconds. Many times the item has already gone too high by then. Seems in the last week
items are way too high. Sellers are fishing. They are waiting for that one bite. Good luck.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I bought 2 cars yesterday on ebay. One was a really nice 940 Wabash hopper. $5.50 plus 8 something shipping. And I bought a brand new in box flat car with 2 Southern trailers. $20 plus 8 something shipping. I hate shipping charges but it beats driving 6 states away to pick up item. Some shipping charges are way too high. I use the "watch list" a lot. Missouri does
not charge tax on ebay stuff.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

Over paying is the norm on ebay. Like you I figure in shipping, Oregon doesn't tax ebay...yet, as the total cost. I've been watching a lot of old, used, brass flex track sell for more without shipping than brand new track from a dealer with shipping. I just shake my head go on to the next watch. Sometimes I bid but I bid only once and that's the maximum I will pay, period. There are some great deals to be had on ebay but it requires a great exercise in patience.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Chaostrain, Illinois never misses a chance to tax any and everything so there is sales tax eBay charges. I pay careful attention to shipping since it can be padded. When the shipping cost shows up and it is USPS and I know from experience what shipping should cost. I avoid anybody who says shipping material is part of the shipping cost. Ain't my problem what it cost you. That is the cost of doing business and the seller should absorb it. Anyway, how much does packing and free used boxes cost? Not much since I used to buy at auctions to sell on eBay to help support my Flyer buying. Just a way for the seller to pick up extra money. 

Mopac, You got some good deals there especially that Southern TOFC. That watch list is a good thing right along with the sold listings to see what the selling cost trend is. I did get another IC reefer that had been converted to knuckles for $15 all in. The actual car cost was $9.50. The change from links to knuckles doesn't bother me. I now have 7 different numbered IC reefers. I'll keep looking. 
I too only bid in the last few seconds. Some of the deals you and flyernut have gotten is why I decided to try again. Besides, there are no shows now so eBay and a couple of other sites I have looked at are all there is so I think savvy sellers have figured this out and price accordingly with But It Now pricing and starting bid prices. 

Kenny
.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Since I have an "AF" 372 I am pleased to see one sell for that price. Prices for original 372's have been depressed by the Lionel release of the FlyerChief GP7 in UP livery. I posted a picture of one earlier this week in another thread.
I have no idea of the condition of the AF 372 that sold. An Ex (7) is valued at $200 in the most recent guide. For most of my collecting hobby I have purchased LN or better, with OB when possible. Based on my experience in this subset of collecting an AF 372 in true LN condition would be expected to sell for $300 to $400, with multiple bidders $500 is possible. An OB for this engine would be worth $100. $540.90 for a 372 in Ex or Ex- is hard to justify.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

AmFlyer said:


> Since I have an "AF" 372 I am pleased to see one sell for that price. Prices for original 372's have been depressed by the Lionel release of the FlyerChief GP7 in UP livery. I posted a picture of one earlier this week in another thread.
> I have no idea of the condition of the AF 372 that sold. An Ex (7) is valued at $200 in the most recent guide. For most of my collecting hobby I have purchased LN or better, with OB when possible. Based on my experience in this subset of collecting an AF 372 in true LN condition would be expected to sell for $300 to $400, with multiple bidders $500 is possible. An OB for this engine would be worth $100. $540.90 for a 372 in Ex or Ex- is hard to justify.


Yes like I said, I was amazed at that $540.90 selling price. I will not buy any that are not at least LN since that is what mine is I bought 15 years ago. I would pay $250-300 for a 372 "Built by American Flyer" since they are rarer but no way $540!!! That one looked to be LN since it was described as being in storage for several years and showed no wheel tread wear, but no box which I am not too particular about. Boxes have never been a deal breaker for me. It is nice to get one but not a requirement. I have seen the selling price for the 372 "Built by Gilbert" engines are now routinely posted at a $220 or more starting price and rarely more than a 7-8 grading. The "Built By American Flyer" postings are all over the place. As can be expected, they are at posted at a higher starting point. Prices will very. I did comment on your GP Lion Chief UP GP7. Very nice. 

Kenny


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Decide what you'll pay including shipping, and add it to an eBay sniping program. Wait until the auction is over and see if you won. Job done.


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## flyguy55 (Apr 20, 2015)

I buy n sell Flyer and have done so for past 20 years.I left ebay and have gone to Facebook Market Place bout a year ago;As a seller with all fees totalled in you pay bout 17 per cent commission.Adding sales tax and shipping to the left coast I am surprised at what people will pay.Have I missed out on better prices selling on ebay....you bet.It is not always about price I am more of a hobbyist at heart than seller so getting or giving a good deal to a fellow hobbyist still counts in my book.Two quick examples.At a recent train show in Dec. a boy with his Mom came by my table three times looking a $225 Lionel set.They decided to buy.I asked if it was a Christmas present...she said yes.I sold it to her for $175.Right now on ebay there is a boxed GP7 370 set auto unloader selling for $499 with $60 shipping.I sold it to that guy for $225 locally.All I can say is best of luck.I would try Market Place with specific American Flyer selling groups.No bidding....no sales tax.You may be pleasantly surpised....


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I miss the train shows where I could recognize the sellers and vice versa. Plus nothing like actually examining the item. I am down to one train show/year. Now that I have more free time I was going to fly to Chicago for the DuPage show twice/year and go to one S Fest but that is on hold now. S Fest West has faded away.
I do not have a Facebook account and likely never will. It feels good to know there are still people like Flyguy55 supporting our hobby.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I think I need to stay off ebay for a bit. Just spent some more. AF track locks or clips. I like them
and they work well. Bought 45 for 10 something and 4 something shipping. They are in good
condition. Good deal. I have lots of them. I need to get them all together and see how many I
have. I am guessing about 200. I hate when track comes apart. 

I don't do Facebook.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

200 track locks? you must have a vision for a large layout in the near future. At 10" of track per lock that is 2,000" of track or about 170' of track. I cannot wait to see what you build!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have very little experience with the track locks. Like how many I need. Layout plans are
6 X 12 with a 6 X6 addition. L shaped. 4 loops making the whole trip.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Sounds like you have more than enough. If any track will be up on the Gilbert piers then two locks are best at each track joint, otherwise only one per joint is needed.
I do not use them for two reasons, most importantly they are incompatible with the rubber roadbed. I also fasten down my track to a layout base.
Regarding having four loops in 60", they will barely fit unless one is elevated. The minimum safe center to center distance is 3.5". So that is 40", 47", 54" and 61". The 3.5" can be reduced down to 3.25" but be sure to carefully check the clearances.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have not tried a fit yet. If I have to I will go to 3 loops. I do not want any rubbin, it ain't Nascar. I was not planning any elevated track. On the curves is where I will need to watch it. Locos swing out on curves. The straight track will be on 24 inch wide sections. And that should be fine. The turns are where I will have to watch it. Never enough room.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

🌈 When you search do you go to the left window and check 'free shipping' and the 'price range' boxes ? This will remove everything else your not interested in...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I do not. Maybe I should. Free shipping is like Ragu Sauce. Its in there. I do not mind shipping if I can get
the item cheap enough. I combine everything and come up with total price.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I am not an ebay buyer most of the time but on rare occasions I use it. When I do searches for uncommon S gauge items eliminating sellers who charge shipping would likely eliminate the one seller who has the item. I always search top down starting with highest price plus shipping first.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I agree Tom. I don't eliminate anything. I just put in American Flyer and look at everything.
First look at "ending soonest" for maybe the next 4 hours. Always adding things to "watch List".
Then look at "recently listed". Anyway it works for me.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

I've been all over the place in that left eBay column. From just putting in "American Flyer" and eliminating nothing, searching top down, ending soon, recently listed, free shipping only, Buy it Now only, and auctions only. I also check the sold history to look at the average price. That can be misleading though. To me each method has it's good and bad. I don't have a favorite method although if I am looking for an item that I want to be LN or better I will use the top down, highest price plus shipping method if I am looking for a particular car. Steam engines not so much that way. I will look at anything since those can usually be restored in appearance and operation. 
I just know that it has been hit and miss, mostly miss, as I am now 1-8 in the cars and 0-6 with the engines since I won't pay a crazy price after the shipping and sales tax are added. I am in no hurry. If I get the item fine. If not then just like a bus in the city, there will be another one coming along. I sure do miss the train shows. I wouldn't be on eBay if there were. Bottom line, I don't NEED anything but WANT everything I don't have! lol

Kenny


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't NEED anything but WANT everything I don't have! lol

No truer words were ever spoken!!!


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Guys....here is a great deal. I offered him $95 and he accepted and it has free shipping. If bought from a place like Port Lines you are looking at $148.50 plus shipping.

LIONEL 49990 AMERICAN FLYER S GAUGE ADD ON TRACK PACK - MAKE OFFERS!

-Eric


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Good price on that expansion pack, Lionel retail is $154.99.
There are some engines and cars I want, there are some train related repairs I need to have done. The repairs are mostly in process, except for the repairs that require a technician to enter the house.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Looks like a deal. includes 2 turnouts. I here they work well. They are expensive.
Congrats.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Got a package in the mail today. It was a 4 car lot. I got 4 cars. I got 3 cars from the lot and one I did not order. And of coarse 1 from the lot missing. I am sure seller will make it right. I have bought from him before. The missing car is a nice 928 flat car. Funny but that is the car that got me to buy the lot. And its missing. Hope he did not send it to someone else. The car I got is a 24030 ugly yellow plastic MKT boxcar. In my books, not an even trade. Waiting
to hear back from the seller. I never sent anyone the wrong item.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

To make matters worse I just noticed my wrong car is a Pike Master car. Not my favorite.
I want my 928 flat car or almost all my money refunded.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

kvlazer22 said:


> Guys....here is a great deal. I offered him $95 and he accepted and it has free shipping. If bought from a place like Port Lines you are looking at $148.50 plus shipping.
> 
> LIONEL 49990 AMERICAN FLYER S GAUGE ADD ON TRACK PACK - MAKE OFFERS!
> 
> -Eric


Great buy alright!! 

Kenny


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Mopac that MKT box car certainly isn't an equal to the 928 flat car. Hope you get things worked out. I agree with you concerning the Pike Master cars. Not mt favorite either. I avoid them. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mopac, if the 24030 is unpainted it is worth $15, if it is yellow painted over plastic it is worth $600!


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Tom after you stated that 24030 that mopac has is listed at $607 in the new Greenberg price guide, I will have to check mine. I have that car plus it's mate with the Tuscan roof. Now I have to go look. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The yellow painted version is listed as a 5 rarity, hope you have one.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

No, its yellow plastic. It might be the cheapest looking car I have seen.
If I end up with it, I will paint it. I would not have this thing on my layout.
He got my message but has not come up with my 928. He don't understand
how that could happen. I need to take a pic of it. He would remember this
ugly car. I just hope he did not send my 928 to someone. If he will refund me 14.00
I will call it even and never buy from the old fart again. He sells a lot of decent
cars. I guess too many to keep track of. I am going to take a pic of it now.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The 928 is by far the better car. Hope the seller finds the correct car.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Those 928 go for a little more than most of the common cars.










It don't look terrible in the pic. In person it is a piece of poop. Cheap, Cheap, Cheap.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I sent seller the pic and told him this should jar your memory. Look around , it ain't around your house now.
If you had this you would remember it. 
I do not have a lot of tolerance for idiots.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Kvkazer22, you son of a gun. You cost me a bundle on that Fastrak deal. I ended up buying
2 of those sets. Seller was holding at 99.00. I finally got him down. Here is the reason I bought
them. I am going to have a figure 8 on my layout. I had an AF 90 degree crossover but I wanted
a 45 degree crossover. Fastrak is the only one that makes one. I had already bought the crossover.
I had also bought the transition pieces to hook back up to Gilbert track. I do not like the transition
pieces. So I decided to make the whole figure 8 out of Fastrak. Did not want to but sometimes it
does not matter what you want. I have a loop of O scale Fastrak and it works well. This will give me 4
turnouts to work with. Will still need to buy some Fastrak curves and straights. Broke had some Fastrak he wanted to get rid of. I will see if he still has it and LOL see if he is ready to lower his price.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I will check and see what I have, However it will be someday in the future, It is 95 degrees now and way to hot to go to the garage.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Let me know what you have. No hurry Broke. I have no idea what I need. I am
getting too much money in the hobby anyway. I don't have a job and don't want
one. Money is limited. And I spend it like I have plenty. I hope the casino never
opens. That is no place to make money. I scrimped and saved my whole life. Now
I spend it like there is no tomorrow.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mopac, a nice thing about using Gilbert track with the 45 deg crossing and adapter piece is that it is easy to cut Gilbert track to fit just by using a hack saw or Dremel tool. One reason there were no 45's in S gauge is that Gilbert track (and SHS/MTH and FasTrack) are 12 section to a circle. That means that with sectional track the crossing angles are 30, 60 and 90 degrees. Half sections of curves can make the crossing angle 45 degrees, so make sure you get at least two half curve sections. The length of sectional straight track depends on the actual track plan but when I tried to do something similar with SHS track I always needed a 2.5" (or 7.5") piece of straight track. Lionel used to make these pieces for FasTrack but I do not see them online any longer. Cutting FasTrack to custom lengths is straightforward but a PITA in my opinion. The excess length needs to be removed from the center of the plastic roadbed but from the ends of the rails. Have fun with this whenever you start.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for the info Tom. Seems everything I want to do is a PITA. Would have been a lot easier if
Gilbert had made a 45 degree crossing. I think my 2 sets of Fastrack will be here today. Fedex
tracking says so. I am sure the figure 8 will not be easy. I kinda played around with the transition
pieces. Not fond of them. They are not plug and play.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Hey Tom, so you are saying I will need some 1/2 curves to make this work?
Going to ebay now to see if such thing exists.
Half straights were needed to make Gilberts 90 degree crossing work correctly.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok, there are some 1/2 curves on ebay. Crap, they cost more than a full curve. Nothing is easy. I guess I will need 4 of them. I am not cutting Fastrack.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

You should only need two half curves, one for each loop connected to the crossing.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The math for this geometry is actually slightly tricky. With the 90 degree crossing nine curve sections are needed for each loop, making 270 degrees of curve track. For the 45 crossing there are two ways to use it in the track plan. The loops can be connected to the 45 side or the 135 deg side. If connected to the 45 side, 45 degrees less curve is needed. To get that two full curves are deleted, replaced with one half curve (15deg-60deg= -45deg). For amusement, carrying this to the extreme, as the crossing angle becomes less, approaching zero degrees, the length of the connected loop of track becomes longer, approaching infinity. Certainly an interesting layout design challenge. 
If the 135deg side is used then an additional 45deg of curve track is needed in each loop. Therefor one more full and one half section is needed in each loop, theoretically. However as the loop gets wider straight track addition gets tricky. 270+45=315. Dividing 315deg by two in order to place the straight sections in the middle of the loop means two 7.5deg curves are needed, not a single half curve. No such thing as a premade quarter curve. That means the straight tracks will be on either side of the half curve which will be in the center of the loop. It will look and function great but I am not sure if it can be done without cutting some straights. Try it when you get the track and see if it works with just full and half straights.
I actually find layout design fun, and wiring them even more fun. I must not be normal. Should I describe how one can make a figure eight layout using two Gilbert turnouts back to back rather than a crossing?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

What would be the degree. Doesn't sound like something you would want to speed through. Naw, I will stick
to a single crossing.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I should get enough curves and straights in those add on sets to figure what I will need. I am hoping to be
able to add some straight track before curve. With layout 12 feet long and crossing in the middle I can't
come over crossing and immediately start the curve. Flex track would be a lot easier. Gargraves does not 
make a 45 degree crossover only a 90 degree. They make an O scale 45 degree. I called them once and 
asked why no 45 degree in S scale. They said no call for it.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

To answer your question, the pair of turnouts make a natural 30 deg crossing. Add a half curve to each turnout curve leg and it is a 45. Add one full curve to each and it is a 60. The real magic is in how the turnouts are controlled and wired. Using a single lever for both turnouts it functions as just a normal crossing. Control each turnout separately and there is either a simple crossing or two back to back reverse loops. Wiring the layout for the second case will be left as an exercise for the reader as one of my professors was fond of saying.
I agree GarGraves flex is the way to go, that is what I would do. I would not use the transition pieces, just cut off the connectors on the FasTrack and butt the ends of the Flex track up to it. Shim as necessary. Solder wire to the connectors under the crossing, put a 1/4" spade lug on the other end of the wires and push them up into the bottom of the GarGrave rails between two ties. That is how I wired up all of my GarGraves track in the past. Totally easy and very quick. Spray paint the crossing with one of those dark gray splatter paints and it will not stand out.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I learned something about searching for items on the Lionel website. Two days ago I commented that the short, odd size pieces of FasTrack were no longer listed on the website. These are necessary to avoid cutting FasTrack. It turns out they are still there. I was searching with the S gauge filter on. All the S gauge track was there except the three short pieces. Today I was searching for another item without the S gauge filter and there were the three pieces. It is a PITA because I had to wade through all the O, HO and large scale track.
The numbers are 6-47986, 47987 & 47988. Lengths are 4 1/2, 1 3/4 & 1 3/8 respectively. Lionel retail is $4.99 for each. With an assortment of these pretty much any track plan can be assembled in FasTrack with no cutting.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

That track is very rigid so it does have to be right. Close won't get it.

I got a nice Gilbert rerailer in the mail today. I think they are expensive.
Really need 2 more of them.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

A long time ago they were expensive, then they dropped in price. I bought a bunch of them NIB, both 3 and 5 digit boxes, for $20 each. Recently they seem to have gone up in price. I wonder if it is because people like me have been hoarding them? I hope you can find some, they make a big difference on the layout.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Yes they do work. thought I had a couple but can not find. I paid 25.00 plus 5.00 shipping.
Not one of my good deals. I would think 10.00 each should be plenty. I need to check my
storage unit. I have a plywood board there with some track on it I used for the Christmas tree. Maybe a rerailer or two on it.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

I've never been able to buy a rerailer because of the price. I have never figured out why they are so much. Once again I have price limits. I will now go back to eBay and check current pricing. I agree with you mopac. $10 is plenty to pay. I know, good luck finding one for that amount.

Kenny


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Right Kenny. Finding a rerailer for 10.00 is next to impossible. Maybe one broke in half.
I looked on ebay last night. I think there were only 2 for sale. That's part of the problem.
I remember flyernut saying he got one at a train show for 10.00.


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