# Building John Allen's Timesaver Switching Puzzle



## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

I have no room for a train layout so I decided to build a switching layout. I was going to build it in O scale but it would be too big for my small den in the house. So I am building it in HO scale. I have some HO trains in boxes in the attic. The base is a 6' X 12" pine board purchased at Lowe's. It is kiln dried and glued up from several boards. I purchased all new Atlas code 100 nickle silver track and 5 snap switches. The picture below shows the track positioned on the board and held with push pins. By using a 12" wide board it will allow me to install some background buildings.

Ed


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

looks good, always had a soft spot for these


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## deedub35 (Jan 29, 2014)

Should provide some fun switching time. Nice.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Warp protection*



EdC said:


> I have no room for a train layout so I decided to build a switching layout. I was going to build it in O scale but it would be too big for my small den in the house. So I am building it in HO scale. I have some HO trains in boxes in the attic. The base is a 6' X 12" pine board purchased at Lowe's. It is kiln dried and glued up from several boards. I purchased all new Atlas code 100 nickle silver track and 5 snap switches. The picture below shows the track positioned on the board and held with push pins. By using a 12" wide board it will allow me to install some background buildings.
> 
> Ed


EdC;

I suggest adding 1x2' or 1x3' framing below ,and at the edges of, your 12" board. Clamp and glue them. Why? Because wood warps when it gets exposed to moisture. It dosn't have to warp much to mess with your carefully laid flat track. If you plan to ballast the track, and possibly add a little dirt and grass, they are fastened by white glue sprayed with water. You can also fight moisture by painting the 12 top board, and any edge frame you opt to use with latex house paint. I use a dirt brown paint and then add scenic materials on top of the paint. 

Good luck, and have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Great project. I’d endorse TFs suggestion about the framing, it will warp over time. With a intensive switching layout you need reliability of operating and snap switches haven’t had a good press on here, you might be better with Peco Setrack. Time will tell. You’ll also need smooth running locos. Make sure you get the Kadee magnets in the best positions.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

*Paint it now!!*

STOP
Take everything off and paint both sides of the board. I have a similar setup and the board warped because the underside was never painted, the top is covered with homosote, so over time the board dries out un-evenly.

Plan ahead on how you will run wiring underneath, I did not plan, so everytime something stops working, I have to trace wires from end to end looking for an open or short circuit.

Good luck, and figure out a way to keep trains from falling on the floor, these shelf layout do not have much margin for error. I had a drooping coupler catch on a Kadee uncoupler and sent thee cars to the floor.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dennis461 said:


> STOP
> Take everything off and paint both sides of the board. I have a similar setup and the board warped because the underside was never painted, the top is covered with homosote, so over time the board dries out un-evenly.
> 
> Plan ahead on how you will run wiring underneath, I did not plan, so everytime something stops working, I have to trace wires from end to end looking for an open or short circuit.
> ...


All good advice, there!


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Thanks for all the good advice. The track is just sitting on the board to see where I want to place it. I need room for some background buildings. 

My plan is to seal the board with polyurethane and install some bracing around the edges with 3/4 X 1 1/2 boards. 

Ed


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## lajrmdlr (Apr 25, 2014)

Never did like the switchback tracks on the Time Saver. All it does is take more time to switch it such that it doesn't live up to its name! ~}


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

Knowing John Allen, I think the term "Timesaver" was tounge in cheek. The intent was to take good amount of time doing the switching moves as compared to the short time it usually took to run around the rest of the layout.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Glue frame first, then paint everything*



Dennis461 said:


> STOP
> Take everything off and paint both sides of the board. I have a similar setup and the board warped because the underside was never painted, the top is covered with homosote, so over time the board dries out un-evenly.
> 
> Plan ahead on how you will run wiring underneath, I did not plan, so everytime something stops working, I have to trace wires from end to end looking for an open or short circuit.
> ...


 EdC

If you decide to attach framing to the board, (highly recommended) glue the bare lumber together with good quality yellow wood glue first. Let that dry overnight, then do any sanding needed and then paint every wood surface; top, bottom, board and frame. Plexiglass walls would keep trains on the layout, and off the floor.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

The board has been coated with a couple of coats of polyurethane on all surfaces and is cured. I started to glue the cork roadbed to the board. The track is still sitting loose on the cork. Once I secure the track I will install a frame around the lower edge of the board.

I plan on following every body,s advice.

Ed


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

While stationed at Mare Island on temporary instructor duty in the Navy in the late 60's, I was lucky to have met a gentleman who managed to get me to meet John Allen and I did attend a number of operating sessions on the G&D. Usually after each session, folks would gather around his time saver and it was quite interesting to operate on.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Hi Chet,

Interesting story. I would have liked to have met him also. Did you try the switching puzzle?

Ed


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I did it a few times. After each session, you were always thinking of a better way to get it done. Some of the regulars were really good, but wouldn't pass on their secrets.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

The track has been laid down and secured with tacks. I tested all the track with the switcher and some cars. All the switches are manual and working smoothly. The 3/4 X 1 1/2 frame has been installed. For the wiring I ran 18 gauge for the main run and used 22 gauge for the feeders. The 5 feeders are soldered to the bottom of the 5 bumpers. The Bachmann 44 ton switcher does not run very good with my old transformer so I ordered a MRC 1370 transformer. The switcher has DC and DCC and runs nice and slow on a friends layout using a MRC 1370.

Ed


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## 89Suburban (Jan 4, 2017)

Coming along nicely.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Where did you find 1x2 lumber with squared edges? All the stuff around here has rounded corners like you see on the larger planks.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

I agree, you're making good progress. Looking forward to seeing this develop.

Mark


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Shdwdrgn

I bought the 1 X 2 lumber at Home Depot. It is in the select pine section.

Ed


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Where did you find 1x2 lumber with squared edges? All the stuff around here has rounded corners like you see on the larger planks.


All the lumber I see both at my local lumber yard and the big box place has square edges. The only exception the 2x4 framing timbers.

You have to pay for the good boards if you want square edges, or buy a 1x3 and trim it.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

The new Railpower 1370 arrived and it works great with my 44 ton switcher, and it runs a scale 1 or 2 mph. I also made an aluminum test fixture for checking the coupler height. It has 2 slots milled into the bottom to lock onto the rails. The middle of the coupler is set at .391 thousands high and the other end is set for .031 thousands above the track to check the curved tail clearance.

Ed


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## lajrmdlr (Apr 25, 2014)

Ed
Did you check yours with Kadee's coupler height gauge? ~}


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

I looked it up on line and the .391 is what Kadee is set at.

Ed


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## lajrmdlr (Apr 25, 2014)

Ed
It would be interesting to know if it matches the Kadee gauge.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Hi Andy,

Here are the specs from Kadee's web site. This picture shows a different shank. However which shank you are using the dimensions from the top of the rail to the middle of the coupler remains the same .390" thousand and .031" for the tail.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

I bought a Walthers plant #4 background building on ebay. The kit comes with lots of extra windows and doors, also a flat wall that is 6 windows across. The extra wall section was cut down to 4 windows across. This gave me two extra sections which I cut down to 1 inch in width. I glued one piece to the left side of the main building and the other piece to the right side of the extra wall. By doing this it doubled the the width of the building. I needed to extend the main building out from the wall one inch to be able to make a loading dock that will be 8 scale feet in depth. I cut out one of the window in the extra wall to install a door which will have a small ramp in front of it. Lots more to do, I will post more pictures as I make more progress.

Ed


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## 89Suburban (Jan 4, 2017)

Coming along nicely!


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Making some progress on the building. Both sections are now glued together with a base to hold them square. I used some white acrylic paint with a little gray mixed in and thinned down with water to the consistency of milk. This was brushed on doing one section at a time and wiped off with a rag. This filled in the grout between the bricks and left a thin wash on the bricks. When the paint sets up I will dust the building with brown and black chalk powder.

The original foundation was 1/2" high. I replaced it with some .060" styrene that is 1" high, the door is now at the same height as the flat car. The foundation is painted with Model Master concrete flat.

I have been enjoying building the switching layout and working on the building. It has been around 35 years since I have worked with HO gauge trains.

Ed


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

The windows are painted with Rust-Oleum #7737 satin Spruce Green. I made a new roof for the main part of the building and covered it with strips of 220 sand paper, then painted it flat black. I also installed a cap stone on the new section of building on the right side. Once I make the roof for the section on the right I can do some more weathering. 

Does any one here have a Backmann 45 ton switcher? I would like to get a measurement to see if it is longer than the 44 ton Bachmann I have. My 44 ton switcher is 4 3/8" from the coupler to the furthest wheel.

Thanks, Ed


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Today I had some time to work on the building. I bought some chalk at Hobby Lobby to finish weathering the building. I rub the chalk on sand paper to get a small amount of fine dust. Then apply it with a dry brush. I used to brown on the roof and on the fascia of the building and the black was applied only to the window and below them. Then I sprayed the whole building with Testors dull coat. The only thing left is to install the window glass and build the wooden dock.

Ed


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## deedub35 (Jan 29, 2014)

Looks awesome!


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

deedub35 said:


> Looks awesome!


Hi deedub35,
Thanks for the comment.
Ed


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

A little more work on the building. All the window glass is in and black card stock has been placed behind them. The loading dock has been built. Some stairs will be attached to the right side of the dock. And some stairs for the other door.

Ed


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Nice work!


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

The building is almost finished. I made the steps for the dock. Added some vents on the roof. And made a concrete dock for the tractor and trailer which I picked up at the train show in Pomona CA. As time permits I have been working on Walthers Centennial Mills building. It also came with an extra panel which I glued them together for an extra long building (20 inches). It also has been raised slightly. I also started to color the ties and apply rust to the side of the rails. 

Ed


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Nice weathering. My favorite part of building.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

I finished the Centennial Mills building, it just needs to be weathered. This week I started 2 new buildings Imperial food and Armstrong electric motors. A photo of a building on foam board was also added. And on the far end is an interlocking tower with a single frog going across.

Ed


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

lajrmdlr said:


> Never did like the switchback tracks on the Time Saver. All it does is take more time to switch it such that it doesn't live up to its name! ~}


That's the whole point of the TimeSaver - it was deliberately designed as a complex "brain teaser" switching puzzle that asks you to try to think of how to accomplish the task in as few moves as possible.

It's *horrible* as an actual town arrangement for switching and would never be found in real life. But it was never intended to be used on a larger layout that way.


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## Kieta (Nov 6, 2018)

Nice work!!!! Looks great!


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## Matagαmi (Jun 24, 2021)

Kieta said:


> Nice work!!!! Looks great!


 I totally agree with that comment !
*EdC, *I hope you don't mind if I steal a lot of ideas...


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Matagαmi said:


> I totally agree with that comments !
> *EdC, *I hope you don't mind if I steal a lot of ideas...


Hi Matagami, Thank you for the comment. I need to redo the buildings. There are to many and too much height to them. I think it would look better with some plain single story warehouse type buildings and fewer buildings. 
Ed


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## Matagαmi (Jun 24, 2021)

Could you post a track plan (Anyrail, Scarm...) ? I know it's a very simple plan but I'll very happy if you can do that. Thanks.


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

Matagαmi said:


> Could you post a track plan (Anyrail, Scarm...) ? I know it's a very simple plan but I'll very happy if you can do that. Thanks.


Hi Metagami, Here is a link for construction of the puzzle.


John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid Railroad - The TimeSaver



Also some history on John Allen's Timesaver puzzle.



Classic Switching Puzzles: John Allen's Timesaver



Ed


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## Matagαmi (Jun 24, 2021)

Thanks for these very helpful et very interesting links.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

wvgca said:


> looks good, always had a soft spot for these


Yeah...this^^^^


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Chet said:


> While stationed at Mare Island on temporary instructor duty in the Navy in the late 60's, I was lucky to have met a gentleman who managed to get me to meet John Allen and I did attend a number of operating sessions on the G&D. Usually after each session, folks would gather around his time saver and it was quite interesting to operate on.


Must be something to look at an artifact in a museum that you've worked on yourself....


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