# Expanded GGN in N Scale



## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

*And so it begins!* _Finally_. I plan to update this thread whenever anything major happens. Hopefully I can document this journey as well as Jerry over on the H0 side.

The basic design is John Armstrong's Granite Gorge and Northern. I added an extra trip around the perimeter of the layout, made the mainlines a little more parallel and closer together on one side of the river. (Two girder bridges that aren't in place next to the track.) There are no reversing loops and the main lines oppose each other. There are two ways to go from main line A to B and from B to A. And there is one short cut. All of these, plus the double 90 and 15* cross, create potential conflict and interesting operations. The yard is on the lower level and there will be a riverside industry siding -- all on the lower level below the truss bridges. There will be a hillside along the back wall and the perimeter track will likely be in a tunnel. Unlike the original GGN, the turnouts on that end will not be in a tunnel.

Today, I completely laid out the track except for the main yard and one siding. I'll need to do those before I begin cutting the foam and creating the elevations. But for now, it made it easier to verify the geometry of the layout and that things were straight. I'm very happy I did this as the track spacing is a lot closer than I expected in areas. It'll need some tweaking and I've already completed a lot of changes since these photos were taken. Unfortunately I'm going to have to shorten the main siding to make the creek through the middle more realistic.

I'm on temporary benchwork so it will be easier to move when future Grandma decides if I get to keep this room or not. The final benchwork has 1.5" edging so the perimeter track won't be so close to the edge and should prevent derailments from making it all the way to the floor.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Very nice. I was going to build that some time ago until i came up with my own plan. The only thing I didn't like about the original plan was not being able to run two trains at once without one or the other waiting to pass each other or a crossing.

The scenery possibilities are endless with this plan and I've seen it completed.


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## 89Suburban (Jan 4, 2017)

Looks good!


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## rwslater (Oct 25, 2017)

Looks like you are coming along with this nice layout. Can't wait to see the next installment.

Robert


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Going to need to stretch it and maybe widen it. 5x11 maybe. Initial grade testing and turnout placement isn’t giving great results. Having a turnout at both the beginning and end of a grade (in a low spot) is an issue. Ugh. A little bummed.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I had to make adjustments in my mountain line railroad too. While the mainlines are a respectable 2% on the straights rising to only 3-13/16", my mountain line road needed some adjustment where the line joined the mainline tracks rising to twice that height to get over two sets of mainline tracks.

The grade is steep, but useable, and it starts and ends at the point it joins the mainline at a turnout. I don't anticipate any problems. I have good easements and no curves at that junction.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

jackpresley said:


> Going to need to stretch it and maybe widen it. 5x11 maybe. Initial grade testing and turnout placement isn’t giving great results. Having a turnout at both the beginning and end of a grade (in a low spot) is an issue. Ugh. A little bummed.


Aah yes, you are now experiencing the dark side of the GG&N design. It is a challenging build.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

JerryH said:


> Aah yes, you are now experiencing the dark side of the GG&N design. It is a challenging build.


Yes. I thought an equivalent table size of 7’ 3” x 14’ 6” (vs. GGN original 5x9 would would be bigger than necessary. *I failed to realize that GRADE doesn’t scale!* Slope is slope is slope. Dang. So I’m considering 6x16. Which means garage vs. extra bedroom.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

It sort of scales in that you don't have to go as high as HO with the bridges. The grade rate still has to be as shallow as possible though. Try to keep it 3% or less. I went with 2% and 1% would have been great but I would have had to go to 16 x 32 to get that.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

JerryH said:


> It sort of scales in that you don't have to go as high as HO with the bridges. The grade rate still has to be as shallow as possible though. Try to keep it 3% or less. I went with 2% and 1% would have been great but I would have had to go to 16 x 32 to get that.


Maybe I planned too much clearance. Losing an inch off the bridge height would make a big difference.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

How much clearance did you use? I would think 1 3/4 or maybe a little less would be for N. The HO minimum is 3" above rail head. N is a little more than half HO size.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

I thought I planned 3" but turns out I had the bridges at 2" -- so I really don't have a lot of wiggle room. I am considering running auto carriers, which I thought were higher than this loco. 

The foam is almost 2" thick, just shy of it. Kato recommends 50mm, which is the same as this foam.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

I think I'm going to stretch it out and use flex track (in the software) so the re-design goes faster. If I can get the grades below 2%, then I'll replace the flex with unitrack. I can go as long as 12' 6" in this room -- just means I have to walk the long way around and come in the outside door to get to the other side of the layout. Not a big deal if I plan my build accordingly. (And if I kicked out to the garage, it won't matter.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

I picked up my first modern locomotive yesterday. I had some time to kill and stopped by HobbyTown (San Antonio). They had just received this Broadway Limited GE in N scale. I couldn't resist. The sound is much better than I expected.

It put into perspective reviews I've watched. I'm not a rivet counter and I now know I won't let minor details ever bother me -- I can only see them with a magnifying glass or close up photo!

I got a decoder for the GP60 and some long rolling stock. Which brings me back to the layout -- definitely going to have to stretch the distance for grade easements. 

My wonderful wife has decided I can have the whole room, so I will probably go to an around the wall layout with a center peninsula. More to follow.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

*New layout*

I'm getting the entire room after all. So now I am concerned about my benchwork, and specifically the space in the aisles. 90% of the time, it will be a one person operation. Sometimes two operators, but infrequently. 

Personally, my height is mostly above the waist. I have a no trouble putting an N scale locomotive on the track 3' away and can reach 3' 6" okay. Regardless, I plan to keep the max reach to the track within 2' 6" or less.

When I originally worked on this, I was in HO. Now in I'm in N scale so I don't need a super wide peninsula. Entry aisle is only 2' wide, the first L as you enter. The backwards L aisle at the right/bottom is 2' 6" wide but the two corners are my planned operating areas, and seem roomy enough to me. 

Thanks in advance for the sage advice.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Jack you should be able to get one heck of a layout in that space.
A 24 inch entry should be no problem.
I see a nice long yard in your future.
You might think about making the top L a little shorter and have more width 
for a yard on the left side. I like nice big yards.  

Magic


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

*GP60's*

What a treat this weekend at home for Mother's Day. I decided to drive by the Mt. Pleasant yard and take some photos to see what was left of the yard. I was happy to find this parked in the yard. Even happier that my (adult) kids were interested in seeing it. You can see the old SSW on the nose under the UP logo. 

While there on the second visit with my kids, a UP employee was working nearby and he commented on how old it was. My kids laughed, since I'm older than this thing. These GP60s were all I ever saw as a kid. They used them for everything. Normally 4 or 5 in a MU on the mainline. A single worked delivering boxcars from the yard to the warehouse and doing switching.

I hope to weather and paint one of my Fox Valley Cotton Belt GP60s to match. That'll take a small miracle to happen. 

Got a lot of photos of the yard and my grandfather's and father's sidings, local industries, and some of the historic buildings.

Overall a great weekend in the ol' hometown.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

I was also surprised at how much Norfolk Southern equipment was in the yard and passing through. Did UP buy them?


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

It has been a while since I've posted an update. Everything has changed since I started the build. This long and boring post is more therapeutic for the author than interesting to the reader. 

I was just about to start the benchwork when my wife suggested I take the entire room. Bigger is better right, so that put me back on the drawing board, or computer actually. Then our first grandchild arrived and questions came up. Where are we going to play and keep toys and other things to spoil this kid rotten? I quickly realized that the train room was the perfect playroom and toy storage room as it is right off the family room. So I basically stopped the planning process and went into "wait and see" mode.

Of course the arrival of our grandson then dominated our time and made us both think about our plans for retirement. While our kids were taking their son on the "meet the great-grandparents" tour in our hometown, we stumbled on a lake house. It had always been a dream of ours to own a lake house that was affordable and sustainable in retirement. We found it and bought it. It gave us a place to live while visiting our aging parents and a great place to make memories with our kids and grandson. To justify the expense of the lake house, we decided we would spend all my wife's time off there: a month over Christmas and all summer. We'd forego spring break vacations and spend that time there, too. So more than 4 months out of the year, the lake house would be home.

With a new lake house and Christmas approaching, I switched gears to Polar Express mode. I purchased some remote control FasTrack switches and designed the first Christmas tree layout that was not just an oval around the tree. It was a big hit and filled the "train" void for a while. After Christmas and returning home, I told my wife I was going to build a small shop so that wood working tools could be setup permanently and I would put a train room in the back. This would eliminate the dust in the garage, which is also our primary store room and take the train room out of the house -- out of sight -- and free up the spare bedroom for a nursery and toys.

Not more than a day or two after telling her this, we are making the 4 hour drive to Houston to get some "grandson time" in when she says, "I don't know why we live there. I can teach anywhere and we could live anywhere." What?? This was a real bomb. Although we live 4+ hours from our kids, 7+ hours from our hometown and lake house, I thought we were completely anchored down to the Texas hill country. I say "we" -- I mean "she."

Then her university/employer offers a big voluntary separation bonus for faculty to quit. Not a good sign for the future of the school, in my opinion. After some soul searching and tear shedding, she made the call. Time to take the money and run.

So here I sit, preparing to put our house on the market and leave the hill country after nearly 30 years of calling it home. So instead of building, I'm packing up the roster and preparing the house to go on the market.

On the bright side, there seem to be a lot of nice homes in northeast Texas that come with big shops. Perfect for woodworking and my own train world.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Life can sometimes throw you more curve balls than Sandy Koufax.
I'm dating myself here.

Magic


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

*Portable/modular build*

All is not lost, just delayed...

My son encouraged me to do a modular build. Two 4'x6' (maybe 4'x7') sections.

So the end result might be something I can travel with and setup easily. I can learn how to automate and get comfortable with Digitrax and DCC while we find/build our retirement home.

So benchwork construction should start by May.


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## TimW (Oct 20, 2018)

Wow, talk about filling the table! Looks like you've got a really nice project going here. Good luck.:appl:


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