# Potential AF Layout



## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

I have spent some time trying to create a good AF layout that includes operating accessories and a bit of fun. My preferences are that it fit within 4 x 15' and that it has both freight operations and passenger trains. I really like passenger trains . 

Please take a look at the proposed layout (done in SCARM) and let me know what you think.

Scott


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I really like it. Looks like it has lots of fun built into it!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Looks like fun.


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

Any way to improve it?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

A very interesting layout with a lot of fun operating
possibilities.

I am concerned, tho, that you have two reverse loops.
A reverse loop exists when a train can go around and
return to the main but running in the opposite direction.
This is an electrical problem in 2 rail layouts.

You can understand the electrical problem if you
trace your tracks where the Crossing is bypassed
by straight tracks. Make the right rail RED and the
left rail BLACK (or any other two colors). You'll see
that the RED rails 'touch' the BLACK rails in
several spots. This would be an electrical short
circuit.

With HO DCC we have automatic reverse loop
controllers. I don't know if there are any such
devices for AF AC tracks. Other AF
modellers may have suggestions.

You can eliminate this problem by deleting the two
straight bypasses of the crossing and the
passing siding just below the X, thus making your layout
basically a modified figure eight. OR you could
eliminate the Crossing entirely and keep the
much needed passing siding. This would then be
a modified oval.

Don


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

I am aware that I have two reverse loops. In fact, they were deliberately added as a way to turn the trains around. There are ways to handle the reverse loops in AF with the use of DPDT relays. There is also an attachment for AF for reverse loops which is essentially a DPDT relay.


Let me look at those suggestions


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

If I eliminate the horizontal straight bypasses on crossing, it looks like I still have a reverse loop on the by pass track immediately above the passing siding. It would be eliminated if I eliminate the crossover completely.

From an operational point of view - which of the three are the best? While reverse loops add a bit of complexity, I have done it before but never 2 or three of them....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Again, "better" is an individual thing. It's all about what works for YOU.

If it were me, i would not eliminate the reversing loops. If you have experience in wiring them, 3 is not significantly more complicated than one. It gives you significantly more variety when you can run trains in both directions.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I agree with CTvalley. Since you have wired
AF reverse loops in the past and you like the
operations, then keep them. The ability to turn
trains around and send them on various routes
that you have in your original track plan is
very desirable.

I wonder if an HO DCC automatic reverse loop 
controller could be used on your AC tracks.
HO DCC uses around 14 volts modified AC on
the tracks at all times. The automatic reverse
loop controllers are designed to operate using
that current. The variable track voltage may make
them unusable but it would be interesting to try.

A DCC reverse loop controller senses the short circuit
that results when loco front wheels span the
insulated joiner (or gap) between the main line
and the isolated section. It reverses the phase
of the isolated section to match the main. When
the loco reaches the exit insulated joiners there
is again a short and again the controller matches
the isolated section to the main. It uses a DPDT
relay to do that. The switch is so fast I doubt the
loco reversing E unit would trip so your train would
simply continue on without pause.

Don


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

For automated reverse loop operation with AC the PSX-AR-AC is the applicable part rather than the version designed for DCC. Mine are so far working reliably.


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

The idea of the reverse loops, while can be a pain, is not that big of a deal. I remember wiring them for my American flyer stuff 25 years ago on the living room floor with my brother. The guide by Norbert Doerry is also a much improved method over the 695 reverse loop relay. 

I wasn't going to use any of the modern control methods - I am still not real sure I understand them yet. I was going to use the 300 watt AF dual throttle control (I have 2 of them) to run the trains. I am not sure what can be used on the older AF trains...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I like your version 11.2. Consider making the bottom passenger siding a run-through track. The S curves can be eliminated by placing the entry and exit turnouts in the return curves at the ends of the layout.


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

If I understand what you are saying, then the passenger station tracks are reduced by one, and a much larger passing track is incorporated. I can then eliminated the shorter passing track, and include an additional siding for passenger support service, like a railway express and commissary.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The V11.21 is what I was describing. Consider replacing the full straight track with a half straight at the entrance to the three passenger station stub tracks. Each of the three sidings can then be 5" longer. The switch tower can work at the 90 deg crossing. The description of the bottom track function is mostly semantics and scenery details. Some passenger stations like Chicago Union Station have run-through tracks in addition to stub end tracks.
Which overall layout you choose is personal operating preference. I never put reverse loops in my temporary Christmas layouts, but I have them in my permanent layout. The boards I referenced above make their use simple. The operator does nothing except throw turnouts to select a route, the boards do all the rest.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

That's going to be a busy area.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

The New Guy said:


> That's going to be a busy area.
> View attachment 261074


I was looking at that, too. Except for the sawmill, all of your industries are in the same place. You might want to move a couple to the other end -- to give you more operation options.


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

I am trying to find room for it, and keeping everything in logical order. Any suggestions?

I tweaked the layout a bit, and eliminated an s-curve, and relocated some of the accessories. I think this is much better. What do you think?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It might be a good idea to mock up the yard areas with track and verify you are satisfied with the ability to place cars at the accessories and then move them out with the engines you will be using on the layout.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

sliderule01 said:


> I tweaked the layout a bit...I think this is much better. What do you think?


Looks good. I motion enough monkeying around, time to get to it.





AmFlyer said:


> It might be a good idea to mock up the yard areas with track and verify you are satisfied with the ability to place cars at the accessories and then move them out with the engines you will be using on the layout.


Although this is a good point. What looks like a winner on paper is really a loser waiting to happen. Try it out, see how she goes.


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

After playing with it - and your suggestions, it is time to start building and gathering materials together. Thank you


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

sliderule01 said:


> ...it is time to start building...


Great! 

I hope you'll document your build. It's fun to watch a new layout come together and they offer inspiration to others that will come after.


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## sliderule01 (Dec 3, 2016)

I certainly intend to post my build - along with lots of documentation. I just have to wait until daughter moves her stuff to new home, and I repair some AF engines and accessories.


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