# New to Model Railroads



## Owl

Hi there folks

I am an rc plane modeller, but about 18 months ago I decided to get a workshop built as I had run out of space in my study. As a youngster I had a Lima trainset, and it seemed like a good idea to build in some space in my workshop to run trains. 

Wow, how things have changed in the last 30 years. So, after lots of reading and bothering hobby shops I eventually decided to go with N scale, and it seemed like a good idea to go with DCC. Eventually my workshop was built, with a dedicated train table- and instead of a simple shelf lay out there is a whole railroad being built.

Its all going together slowly, but there are trains running now, and mostly staying on the tracks. I love building things, and taking my time about it so this is a very long term project, planned in 3 phases initially but my ideas keep changing as it becomes apparent what works and what doesn't. The beauty is that I have a plentiful supply of balsa scraps and bit and pieces that get left over from my aircraft, and already have glues/paints and such so the two hobbies combine quite well.

Anyway, just thought I'd drop in and say hi, and thank everyone for all the info they have shared on this forum. 

Al


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## MtRR75

I had to look up where you are from. South Africa -- Cool -- Always nice to see international members. Welcome.

Do you model American railroads, European railroads or South African Railroads?


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## Owl

At the moment the locos are Union Pacific, as there weren't any South African locos, but as I live in a forestry area, it will be probably be that way inclined. But in the end it won't be to prototype specific, sort of an imaginary branch line. 

We had a railroad running through the area with a number of tiny sidings and stations until recently which was inspired me, so I would like to copy one or two of my favorite locations and work them in. At this stage ita just track with no scenery, so there are lots of options . 

Mostly at the moment I'm just having fun with my current very simple layout, and trying to find what works best. So far there have been lots of mistakes, so now everything gets test driven for a couple of weeks before its allowed to stay. 

I'll post a picture or two when I get a chance 

Al


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## Big Ed

Owl said:


> At the moment the locos are Union Pacific, as there weren't any South African locos,
> 
> Al


Hello & welcome to the site.
Sure there were some RR's in South Africa, I will throw a wiki list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_African_locomotive_classes

Another,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Locomotives_of_South_Africa

Another not a wiki, 
http://steam-locomotives-south-africa.blogspot.com/

Found this site too,
http://www.modeltrainshop.co.za/south_african_railways_model_trains.html

Here is one, a handsome locomotive it is. :thumbsup:









What would we do without the internet?

But I guess if you were to model them you would have to custom build the trains.
Stick with what your using, we need an American presence in South Africa.

I guess you get your trains off the internet?
Do you have a lot of hobby shops over there? 

Yes, post some pictures. Most love seeing others work.
You have questions ask away or search the site.
Don't be afraid to ask here there are no stupid questions here, and you should get an answer.:smokin:


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## Owl

Hi Big Ed! We do have an extensive rail network, but a lot of the smaller lines have been neglected. 

I have got my stuff from the "Model Train Exchange ", a very old and reputable business. I live in a very rural area, so mail order is the way to go. But at this stage its nice to drive up to Johannesburg and actually meet the guys and pick stuff out. Its a wonderful shop, and they are really nice folk . Actually the trip is a good excuse to stay in nice hotel, visit my parents and attend a vintage model plane fly in. 

I think tomorrow I will start in on my first structure, a shed to park my two bigger locos in. Hopefully I will be able to post some pics on Monday.

Happy railroading

Al


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## powersteamguy1790

Welcome to the forum Al. Glad to have you aboard.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Greg903

Welcome Al. Look forward to seeing what you do. N scale, dcc is exactly what I am doing. 
I was thinking about a airport on my layout, sounds like that would be right up your alley.


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## Big Ed

I was going to say, where is everyone coming up with the name Al?
It is OWL not Al.

I completely missed the Al at the bottom.

Well Al & OWl....same thing right?


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## Owl

Hey there Big Ed, my friends call me Al/Owl interchangeably. Long story there

Well, I've run out of track, but that should be addressed in about 10 days, may also get another loco and some rolling stock while I'm there. 

I have taken a photo or two, but I'm a little embarrassed to post them, there's just not much to see yet.

Reading some other threads my approach seems a little primitive. I plan what I want, lay the track down and then see if my Mikado 2-8-2 heavy can go over the new section. If it works, I lay down some track bed (3mm cork gasket material) and lay the track properly. If not, I just try something else. Not time efficient, but at the moment it works just fine for me. 

Also built my first structure - an engine shed

I'll update some more when it all looks a little more exciting

Al


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## Bone1977

There is no wrong way to do model railroading so long as you are happy with the result. Well I suppose you could pump to much electric into your tracks and fry stuff... But when it comes to laying the track and running the trains its what you enjoy.


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## Owl

*Picture*

Well, its not that interesting, but here's a picture anyway Bit of a landmark, as next weekend I'll be able to buy some more track and bits as I'll be in Johannesburg for a model fly in.

This is just one side of the layout - there is a similar table on the other side of my shed with a wide shely in between. Eventually it will extend all around my shed (but that will be years from now).

The shed is my first attempt at a structure. Wanted it to look ole and dilapidated, and be about the right size. It came out a bit wide, so there will be another two tracks running in there. 

Al


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## Fire21

Al, I think you're off to a great start! I like the shed you built, it does look well used.


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## Owl

Thanks Fire!


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## Owl

*A change in design*

I guess things always work out eventually, just not quite how one expects

Last weekend I headed up to Jo'burg/Pretoria, and one of the things I intended to do was get LOTS more track, and some turn outs. Alas, the track was sold out. But there was a nice loco that needed a home.... 

So, with track laying at a temporary halt, it seems a good time to take stock of where this railroad is heading. Well, firstly the wiring and track in place works well and needs to be permanently fitted and tidied up. Then its a good time to build some structures and start in on scenery. A little scary, but you don't learn unless you try, so thus will be tackled slowly. 

Then it suddenly dawned on me that disaster was looming! When I first became serious about building a railroad I envisioned more of a long shelf layout with trains scooting along, and no shunting at all. Then when the work space became available, it seemed sensible to move to N gauge, and then a lot more fun could be had as there would effectively be more space.

So- "phase one" is pretty much done, and is a point to point layout. Lots of fun, and it can keep me busy for ages. This links up with another bench to form a U shaped layout, so eventually trains will be able to run laps. Having unexpectedly enjoyed shunting so much, I drew a new rough sketch with lots going on on the other side of my proposed layout. Then the penny dropped - a single person operating a 3.5 x 2.4 m shunting layout is going to get tied in knots!

Now, yet another plan had been hatched. The extension will be made of two tracks, each one at a different level, and each with a siding to allow trains to pass. Very simple, but much more practical. Eventually the extension will itself be extended down the side of my workshop ( 7m) and terminate in another small town- but again, there will just be a passing track at the station. So- I can do some shunting, but will also be able to indulge the original idea of occasionally just letting the trains run. N scale is amazing!

Still lots to dream of, but it feels good to finally have the concept sorted out

Hopefully this weekend the track will all become permanent, and the further most back corner will have an attempt at some scenery.

Al 

P.s. Is there a way to stop buying locos?


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## Fire21

Owl said:


> P.s. Is there a way to stop buying locos?


Yes. Buy a new vehicle. I just bought a new Ford F-150, and now have no money for anything else except food!!


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## Owl

Ooh- now that's a nice truck!


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## Big Ed

Make sure you are satisfied with the plans for the track before you make it permanent.

Then you won't have to rip it up to start all over. 
That sucks.


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## Owl

The completely permanent bit does worry me a little!

Am I right in thinking the wall of a single story structure - from the ground to where the roof sits should be about 2.2 cm, or one inch? I realize these can vary quite a lot, just looking for a standard for my structures.... Sorry if its a silly question, but I just can't get to an answer with Google 

Al


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## Big Ed

Owl said:


> The completely permanent bit does worry me a little!
> 
> Am I right in thinking the wall of a single story structure - from the ground to where the roof sits should be about 2.2 cm, or one inch? I realize these can vary quite a lot, just looking for a standard for my structures.... Sorry if its a silly question, but I just can't get to an answer with Google
> 
> Al


 N scale size for buildings is 1” = 50’.

How about a calculator?
http://www.csgnetwork.com/modrrscalecalc.html

Another,
http://webpages.charter.net/sinkwich/sdventure/html/sd_scalecalc2.htm

Another,
http://www.model160.com/scale-and-unit-convertsion-tool/


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## Owl

Thanks


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## DonR

The best favor you can do for yourself would be to get 
an N scale ruler. The one I have also has HO and 0
gauge. With it you can measure the real life
item you want to model and then use the ruler to
convert to N scale. Not sure they come metric.
Mine is in feet and inches. Should be available at
any hobby or craft store or on line.

Don


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## Owl

I didn't realise that there was such a thing Don! Great tip, thanks, I will definitely look into getting one


Al


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## DonR

Al

The best favor you can do for yourself is to
get an N scale ruler. The one I have also
reads out HO and 0 gauge. You measure
the real thing you want to model then
the ruler converts that to
N scale. Not sure if they are available in
metric. Mine is in feet and inches.

You should be able to get one at a hobby
shop, craft store or on line.

Don


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## Owl

Sometimes one can think a thing to death, and its better to build something and then see what you have. So, I have roughed out a building. Unfortunately there is a power cut at the moment, so I can't use my PC to post a picture. But when I can, I'll put a couple of pics up so that you folk cab give me an opinion


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## Big Ed

Hey Al/Owl this would be handy to have for the N scale.

This one is an HO rerailer, look for an N scale.










The are not that expensive and makes the job of loading your locomotives and rolling stock easy. Just put them on an they roll right onto the track eliminating the need of manually eyeing/lining up the wheels to put them on the track. A great little tool to have.

Here is the first one I saw on an e bay search using the words N scale rerailer,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-Power...879958?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2c8ea72616


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## Owl

That's another thing in the wish list! Big paws and tiny trains would appreciate it. Making a list of all these things. Thanks Big Ed


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## powersteamguy1790

Owl:

You can make a rerailer in N scale by using balsa wood strips. They are easy to make and very cost effective. I use them all the time on grade crossings on the "new" JJJ&E. You can also buy pre-packaged ones which are shown in the photo below.










Have fun with it.


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## Owl

Thanks, that's a great idea! What a beautiful loco


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## Owl

*Double track*

I just realized that I can double up the mainline on my existing layout, which means I will be able to run at least two trains continuously once the lay out is finished. Also, the bench work for the rest of the layout should be done in the next month or two. Initially the idea was to do it in stages along with the railroad, but it seems sensible to just get it done. Basically it is just a 4m shelf down the wall, so its not particularly difficult. The layout will then be a big U, with one leg extending as a shelf to terminate in a small island

This will be phase 3 of the layout. Phase 4 will be a storage yard over my workbench, phase 5 ? Well, who knows?

Photos when my PC is alive again, and also when there's something exciting to show

Al


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## powersteamguy1790

Owl said:


> Thanks, that's a great idea! What a beautiful loco


Thanks Owl. That's a Black SP GS-4 steam locomotive. During WWII, SP painted their SP "Daylight" GS-4's black in order to camouflage the bright orange color of the "Daylight" GS-4.

Below is a panoramic view of black SP GS-4 #4438 entering the town of San Marino on the "new" JJJ&E.


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## Owl

Sorry for the lack of updates, but I have been a bit under the weather this side, and also trying to finish a vintage sailplane model. 

Trains are still running though, and buildings are being planned. I'm still waiting for my track order so that the second half of the railway can be built, but in the meanwhile the layout concept is getting worked out. Probably the most useful tool I have is a piece of string with a drawing pin tied at one side. This gives me the smallest radius curve that my Mikado 2-8-2 can negotiate with ease. 

I really need to get some plant life onto the layout now, just to bring it to life

Once there is something to show I'll post some pictures 

Al


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## Owl

*Season's Greetings*

Hi there railroaders, hope you all had a happy Christmas , and all the best for the coming year.

Still waiting on track for my railroad, but have made a start on some buildings. Its all a bit experimental at this stage, and the results a little crude, but you have to start somewhere. Its surprising how much even simple structures transform a layout though

This weekend I hope to build the stuff for my "town" siding- a fairly big project, but it should be lots of fun.

Hope to post a picture or two this weekend

Al


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## Bone1977

Looking forward to seeing it. Always enjoy other people's stuff.


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## Owl

Sorry for the delay in posting some photos, but work and other hobbies have got in the way of progress. My station is coming along slowly, hopefully a little more will be built by the weekend .

Al


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## Bone1977

Nice thing about this hobby, it moves at whatever speed you are able too.


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## Owl

The "before"







The brewery gets added. Yip, its crude - but thats part of learning. At some stage it will get more atention, or be replaced.







The water tower







The station in its curent unfinished state








My buildings are very crude, but are getting a little better each time I think. It adds a lot of enjoyment for the trains to actually have a place to stop at. The foam thing in the background will become a hill one of these days, complete with a tunnel and a bridge. At the moment it just breaks up the flat baseboard a bit

This such fun!!!!

Al


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## Owl

*gradients and shunting*

Hi guys- well, work has been crazy and so the layout has actually seen a lot if action. Who would have thought that driving trains would be so therapeutic? A quick half hour session and all is right in the world again 

It looks like I will finally be getting my next batch of track and turnouts this weekend, or in the next two weeks at the latest. I would really like to have some elevated sections of track, with bridges and things. I have read that a scale gradient would be a round 2% but you can go up to 4% if needs be. Assuming the track needs to climb 6cm to clear another track, does that mean that for a 4% gradient the approach will need to be 1.5m long? Also, is a 4% gradient reasonable? I don't want the gradients to look silly, and can always go another way with my planning. (my trains will all be short- maybe 5 cars long). 

Also, when it comes to operating I have a really silly question. I understand about parking freight cars where you want them, but how do you decide which loco to use? Does one generally use certain locos on the mainline and others for shunting? At the moment I have cards with train destinations and I just move complete trains from place to place. Its deeply satisfying, but not so realistic. 

I am going to eventually have a yard off to one side of the layout- so would one build up a train there, deliver wagons where you want them and then later send another loco out to collect them? 

Generally though, I am amazed just how fun it is to actually have a schedule to run the trains with. It makes me feel that I am operating a railroad instead of just playing with toy trains
Goes to show you don't need a very complicated layout to have almost unlimited fun I guess. Although I can't wait to have a continuos loop or two so that occasionally one can just watch them run.....

Al


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## Cycleops

Looking good, that's an interesting track plan. Regards operating yes you do generally have smaller locos for shunting and larger ones for mainline duties. 'Switchers' for yard duties. I know you use cards but it sounds like for complete trains. You might get more from using a card for each wagon stating a destination together with reporting marks and cargo.


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## Owl

Thanks! Makes sense. I've saved your waybill, and will work out a better way of operating


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## Cycleops

Here's the site it came from. Might help you. http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/ccandwb.html


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## Owl

Thanks again!

My track is at a funny stage at the moment. This is just the first bit, and its been where I learned some basics about wiring and things. The next bit is on the other side of the room, and will connect up with this one. Very exciting, as the track is all ordered and I'm just waiting for it to arrive. When its done, there will be two loops, but also some shunting opportunities - sort of the best of both worlds. The difficult part has been trying to simplify everything

Al


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## Owl

*It gets easier*

My order of track arrived, and so this evening seemed a good time to take a break from other projects and build some railroad 

Its amazing - armed with rail cutters and some experience its so much faster laying track! The new section worked first time to my joy, even though the new bit is a bit close to the edge of the table.

Layout will end up more or less a double track squished figure of eight, but at the moment it seems a good idea to lay one figure of eight, play a bit, and then continue. My planning so far hasn't always worked out so well....

But it will be exciting to see a train run continuously for a change 

Al


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## Owl

*kato 2-10-2*

I saw a Kato 2-10-2 and am sorely tempted. But, I am a little worried about it getting around curves. It seems the middle axles float, but seeing as my minimum radius was set by what my 
Mikado 2-8-2 can negotiate, it seems unlikely a longer steam locomotive will necessarily cope? Or should I not be concerned?

Al

P.s. I may be wrong, maybe it was a Bachman product. The grey matter is not firing on all cylinders this evening...


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## traction fan

*Curves & big steam*

Owl;
You are wise to be concerned about the ability of a large steam loco, (or some long cars for that matter) to reliably navigate tight curves. Even those "twelve-inch-to-the-foot modelers" like Santa Fe, New York Central, Southern Pacific, Etc. have had to deal with this issue.
In our model railroad world, Manufactures usually CLAIM their loco will go around a 9-3/4" or 11" radius. Model locos are designed to negotiate our much tighter than prototype curves. However that doesn't always mean that you won't spend a lot of time putting it back on the track. If at all possible, test run the loco you are tempted by, on a curve like yours, at a train store. If you can't do that, see if you can get a return privilege, or satisfaction guaranty from your supplier. 
On my own model railroad, I ended up switching out the minimum radius from 12" to 16" because my Kato mikados derailed too often. What track radius do you use?

Traction Fan


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## Owl

Hi Traction Fan, sorry for the belated reply, but your advice is appreciated. I'm not sure what my minimum radius is, its been built sort of trial and error around my Mikado 2-8-2. But, I have resisted the temptation as I am fairly sure it just won't work

A lot has happened to my layout lately, the second bit is now roughly in and being test run. The odd hiccup here and there, but it works!!! I would like more siding, but I think everything is crowded enough already, and some space must be left for scenery. There are also bits that I will redo, as they work but I am not happy with them, and I know can do a better job now that I have a little more experience.

The next addition will be a storage yard on the frpnt left over my work bench - basically a long skinny shelf layout, where I can keep all those impulse buys which will inevitably happen in years to come.

I was surprised how poorly everything ran after standing for a month or two. But a good wipe with a soft clean cloth, and some running, and the locos are better than ever. It helps that I can now run two trains at once, so when I'm busy with other things I get two going and give them a little exercise

Happy railroading
























Al


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## Fire21

That's looking good, Owl. Get those airplanes outa the way so you can RAILROAD!!


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## Owl

Thanks Fire. Its a lot of fun, but I can't wait for some scenery!

I know you're joking, but the planes are here to stay . There is great pleasure to be found in starting with sheets of balsa and a number eleven blade, and ending weeks or months later with a plane that flies.... But the two compliment each other to some extent. I am fortunate to have lots of hobby stuff to help with the railroad, and when one hobby starts driving me crazy, then the other one is there for a change of pace.

Al


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## Fire21

Yeah, I was kidding. I think it's great that some folks have more than one hobby. I used to build lots of model airplanes as a kid, but I can't imagine the thrill of starting from scratch like you do and actually flying the thing when all's said and done. Congratulations achieving that. :appl:


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## tjcruiser

Hi Owl,

Just a quick chime-in to say thumbs-up on your layout-in-progess, with an addition THAT's NICE on the pine-planked room. A great hobby setting.

Attic? Shed?

TJ


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## Owl

Thanks TJ. My hobby room is a shed built on my back deck. Bit of a dream come true really, as its just for planes and trains. Eventually the railway will extend all the way around as a shelf layout.

Al


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## tjcruiser

A man cave ... with electricity ... and trains & planes, of course. I love it!

TJ


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## Owl

Which is the true delight of model trains. A cup of coffee , the radio on, a train running in circles, and everyone actually thinks you're busy doing something


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## Owl

*A question of perspective*

Funny thing happened tonight- I had my two biggest locos out exercising while I was busy at my work table. So, instead of looking down at the layout, it was at about shoulder level as I was sitting down. Now I have a book or two for beginners, and they talk about what height your layout should be. But seeing it from such a different perspective was incredible. At times you couldn't see any locos at all, then those bright head lights come around a curve and run down straight, or the two big trains pass each other. WOW ! Completely unexpected, and absolutely magic. So from now on, as I add to the layout, it going to be important to sit down and look as well as seeing how things look from above. 

Now I really get what the books were kn about....

Al


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## Fire21

Great post, Owl. We should all remember the release the kid in us now and then and get ourselves down to their level. As adults we tend to concentrate on the "helicopter" view of things. I'll keep your advice in my memory banks.....


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## Owl

*Ironing out the kinks*

Double post


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## Owl

*Ironing out the kinks*

At the moment most of my track is not glued down, as there are gremlins lurking here and there that need sorting out. Also, it seems a good idea to thoroughly run the track to find what doesn't work so well.

The first biggie raised its head tonight. On one of the new long curves, I had used those insulated plastic track joiners. Slowly, the track started to kink at the join- which looked messy and really upset my Mikado 2-8-2. What can I say, she's fussy

My first plan was to just glue the offending piece down. But it looked worse, and didn't really help. The one rail seemed to be slightly higher than the other, and felt bumpy when I ran my finger over it.

So, out with the rail clippers, removed the offending section and back to the next straight, put in a new piece of track using normal rail joiners, and then lined the track up on the straight, and glued it down with a tiny almost invisible gap to the next track. 

What was dead man's curve is now smooth as glass, and the big Mikado is happy again! So, lesson learned the hard way, but the fix was enjoyable.

Onto operating- well good grief! Previously a session would take half an hour or so. Tonight, after an hour I had done just a couple of operations. Its takes a little thought to be the driver, yard master and dispatcher all at the same time, but I did manage to get three trains busy at once at a stage . So, I may have succeeded approaching what I was after- a layout where two trains can do laps, or where one can get lost in sending trains out, fetching loads and bringing them home....

This hobby has so much more to it than I had ever imagined, and the scenic bit has yet to be begin. No wonder folk spend a lifetime building a layout. 

Al


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## Magic

Sounds like the bug is biting deeper and deeper.  

Making good progress and looking good :thumbsup: and agree with the shoulder level view, makes a whole new layout out of it. I got a tall chair for just that purpose. 

Wait till you get more scenery, it get even better and scenery opens up a whole new dimension of the hobby. I found I really enjoy it. 

Magic


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## Owl

Thanks Magic! The thought of scenery is a little intimidating, but I guess the only way to get it done is to start doing it


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## Cycleops

It need not be intimidating, there's plenty of help out there. If you're not tooconfident at building structures many manufacturers offer ready built and painted options. Similarly with the groundwork, have a look at the Woodlands Scenics spots site: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com plenty of help there in the way of videos and product. Have a look on YouTube for vids too. Good luck.


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## Owl

Thanks for the suggestions) I'll have a look at woodland scenics now. But its probably silly to worry. There's no rush, and if something looks wrong its easy enough to do it again, and the worst case scenario is one has learnt how not to do something


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## Owl

*The Old Saw Mill and Bridge*

Its taken almost a year, but my layout has a name at last. It was always going to be partially inspired by the trains that used to run where I live. 

I stay in an area that around the turn of the last century was dominated by good mining, but for many years has been all about forestry. Lots of little stations, little sidings . Big locos and short trains... Its been a while since the last train came through, but I love the sound of a big loco starting up at night, or running slowly over a bridge

So- there will be a small saw mill and lots of trees.

The layout as it stands will be extended down the sides of the room. One side will be a long shelf layout, the other a storage area over my workbench, and both sections will be linked by nice big bridges! 

I have envisioned the layout as basically a fairly busy railroad which is all a sideline off a main railroad (like the railroad where I live used to be). 

It also seems some small American operations use locos and rolling stock from leased or bought from the big operators, so I can run an eclectic mix if I want

Anyway, that's my story!

Welcome to the OSM&B

Al


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## Fire21

Cool name, Owl. It has nostalgia and curiosity in it. Good luck with the operations!


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## Owl

Thanks Fire. As far as operating goes a lot of thought is needed. It is completely possible to run at least three trains, but they need to be priortised. So I need to come up with a way of having a first and second class trains.... I think the trick will be to have another industry on one of the curves so that there is a reason for a train to wait there. Its all a bit confusing, but puzzles are fun.

There is a road near here which is a very old dirt road pass, and very neglected. At a stage when they were logging up there, they had trucks going up two days a week, and down two days a week. Fun for off roading, but not so fun when you meet a truck! Anyway, I'm thinking something similar may work well...

Al


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## Owl

Well, the big steam problem has been sorted out. As much as I love big steam locomotives, the more one reads the more one learns, and the F series locos came to my attention. Wow- they are beautiful!!! So, there's a Walthers F3 on its way

The next big work on the OSM&B will be building a mountain, hopefully this weekend. The mountain is really important, as it will give the trains a chance to disappear, and it will also give a back drop to my current station. 

Its going to be fun.....


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## Cycleops

The EMD F7 was a classic. It inspired loco designers the world over. In the UK it was the Deltic series. You can see the ancestry in this pic of the prototype.


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## Owl

That's awesome!!!


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## Owl

*Tree Sizes*

Having more or less sorted out the building height and shed height question, I have been trying to figure out how big would a mature, generic tree be? Once one looks " right", then you can vary the size a bit and the rest should fit in. Because my railroad will be homemade wherever possible, I am taking an approach that consistency is probably more important than exact scale.

Anyway: here's an interesting thread -
http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?16512-Tree-Heights-For-N-Scale

Al


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## tjcruiser

Awesome looking loco ... the Deltic!


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## Magic

Most mature trees would be 30 to 50 feet tall. A 40' tree would be about 3" tall in N scale.
1.92mm = 1 foot. I think don't do metric.  7.7cm?

That's where I started, some areas needed smaller and a few might need to be taller.
Too tall and the trees will dominate the scene. 

Here's a link to a way I make armatures. This is HO scale.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=287041&postcount=107

And another for some additional info.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=321042&postcount=125

For N scale you would use smaller wire. There easy to build, cheap and look pretty good.

Magic


----------



## Owl

Brilliant stuff Magic! Thanks, will certainly give it a go


----------



## Owl

*Design Changes*

After lots of operating, it seems the spurs off the interchange on the right side of the layout are just silly. The idea was good, but its just a bit cramped and busy, and they don't add anything. So, when I get around to the finishing stages, the interchange will remain and become a station, but the spurs will go. Instead a long spur will feed two lines across the middle of the right side of the layout. Simpler, easier to operate and it will give better scenic possibilities. I may even just leave it open.....

Made a start on carving some foam for my mountain, and its a lot messier than expected, so may have to invest in a hot wire cutter!

Al


----------



## Owl

Switched everything around,and its much better! Easier to operate, looks better, and runs better. Best of all I can have another 2 industries in the busy valley of the OSM&B, I'll post a photo later 

Al


----------



## rhikdavis

I wonder if you could grind up sponges in a food processor....I guess getting the right shades would be a pain...


----------



## Owl

The idea was to pull it apart into little bits to give the idea of bushes or rocks, and just spray paint it. Haven't tried yet, and most of my ideas don't work out. But it is fun experimenting


----------



## Owl

*What kind of layout?*

One of the key points often made about starting a layout, is that's its important to have a good idea of your eventual goal. But, unless you've spent some time around model railroads this is quite difficult! Everything is so interesting, and every time open a magazine there are new and exciting ideas. All very confusing really, there is really so much one can do that its a bit overwhelming..... The first question I was asked when looking at trains was "will it be American or European?". A train is a train right? Well not really. Fortunately I was encouraged to start with similar stuff. You guys know all this, but I wasn't sure it mattered 

Tonight it seemed a good idea to start some planning for operations. Shunting is fun, but its can also be quite intense. So I decided to start with just one loco and some cars and decide what they were actually going to do on the little world in my workshop. 

That's when the penny dropped! If this train is going to collect wood, take it to a saw mill and then take finished wood to a furniture factory, what's going to happen to furniture? Well it will have to be picked up and shipped onto the mainline! Then, the saw mill will also need other supplies. Fuel, equipment, and general "stuff". There is also a brewery and a small town, so other trains types will be needed.

So, now there's the fun of getting just the right rolling stock, and even the scenery ideas are taking shape. Its no longer a train set, but a whole little world that will be serviced by railroad. Now that the concept is clear, I am going to go read the couple of books and magazines I have again, with a completely different outlook.

Of course, in this little world it may be completely appropriate to occasionally have the Flying Scotsman or Oriental Express come buzzing through occasionally- its about having fun after all


----------



## CTValleyRR

I don't usually post in the N forum, since I'm an HO guy, but this thread looked interesting.

One thing to keep in mind in your operation theme: For the industry chain concept (forest to lumber mill to furniture factory to warehouse) to work prototypically, your industries need to be (conceptually) separated by significant distances. In the US, anyway, short distance haulage is accomplished exclusively by truck. There must be a rather long distance involved to make rail competitive.

That said, I model the same industry chain on my layout, and it works really well (towns are only a couple of feet apart, but they are visually separated by terrain). Don't forget that your factory will also need supplies (big machine tools on flat cars, adhesives and finishes in tank or box cars, etc.), or that you can make that warehouse for the finished furniture into a distribution center handling lots of products (staging works well for this concept, too).


----------



## Owl

Hi CTValley! ! That never occurred to me. The rail run between points is quite far, but the visual distance between point is small. Maybe a ridge between the two will make a visual distraction? 

The logs are picked up far away from the sawmill (opposite corners), but the "factory" is quite close to the sawmill, so another option would be to link the two by road, and then move the final product away by rail.

I have 3 spurs to use up, and they are quite long, so it seemed 3 industries would be a good idea. But, seeing as we talking about a small rural operation, it may make more sense to have 2 spurs run together with a platform in between and have several small industries served by the two tracks? Maybe a small carpenter, a workshop or machine shop, and general dealer for example? And then maybe a little diner on the other side, or a little post office?

Just need to keep operating and see what works I guess  . There's absolutely no hurry


----------



## DonR

You mention the long spur with possibly several industries. These
are often referred to as a team track. Initially a team track got it's
name because local merchants would pull up to it with their
teams of horses to load or unload freight. You could find a less than
car load (LCL) freight terminal, a small dairy, stock pens, small
graineries or lumber dealers.

Team tracks do make switching more interesting since you must
move cars out of the way to spot a car at a specific business.

Another layout factor that makes switching interesting is having
spurs that require the loco to push a car in from it's front, as
well as those you back in. You must have a 'passing siding' or
run around to do that.

And for the coolest switching sessions, make up cards for each
car on your layout. Then with post it notes attached, show where
the car is to be picked up, and where it is to be spotted, or what
track it will go on to build a train. You keep the car cards but
toss the post its when you've ended the session.

Don


----------



## Owl

That sounds fun, but switching has got me a little stymied. I'm using kadee couplers with those magnetic track sections, but a couple of my cars uncouple every time they go over one? I only have very few coaches at this stage, so maybe its a rare problem and I've been unlucky? When I've tried to bend the little wire bit that hangs down on one it broke off. Would it be better to use a different system?


----------



## DonR

The Kadee magnets for uncoupling should go only in spur or yard tracks.
If under a mainline track they will uncouple. You use the Kadee electric
magnet under mainline tracks. You push a button when you want to
uncouple.

But either way, you will have to manually uncouple because the
magnets are often not where you want to drop a car. That's where
the 'hand of God' (HOG) wand is used. It's a 6 or 7 inch plastic
or wood rod that has one end filed down to a very narrow flat
point. You stick in the coupled knucles and twist. They open. 
(most of the time). It does take practice. These are also
available commercially.

Don


----------



## Owl

Thanks Don! Next time I'm at the train shop I'll have a look.

Al


----------



## CTValleyRR

You can use terrain for a scenic divider. You can also put a short piece of backdrop into the center of the area, and use buildings or scenery to disguise the end.

I would definitely recommend using at least one of those spurs for the team track, and the others for unrelated industries. I have a winery and a warehouse / freight office on two short spurs. The winery gets tank cars and reefers, the warehouse is generally boxcars with the odd flat. Switching gets really interesting when you have boxcars awaiting processing at the warehouse stacking up to the switch points, or a tanker with outgoing product gets buried by a couple of reefers.


----------



## traction fan

*Conifer trees*

Owl;

I don't know if your layout's lumber Co. cuts them but here's a way to grow your own conifer
trees. (evergreens like Pine, Douglas Fir, etc.)

These plants are called "Miller's Asparagus Fern". I bought them at Home Depot. If you cut of the tips and let them dry in the sun, you can strip the needles off easily. This yields a great looking trunk and branches. Then you can apply bits of Woodland senics fiber or Walmart cotton batting stretched out very thin. Spray this completed armature with dark gray,black or dark brown spray paint. After the paint dries, spray with cheap hairspray as an adhesive. I then sprinkle on "sander dust"(finer than sawdust) which has been dyed(with RIT fabric dye) very dark green. 







Traction Fan


----------



## Fire21

Those look nice, Traction Fan. You're the only person other than myself that I've ever heard mention using RIT dye to tint things. I've thought about it but never done it because I've never gotten built that far. But it's good to know that it works!


----------



## Owl

Great trees! I think I will need conifers, so many great ideas posted, gonna have to try them all.....

Scenery progress is a little slow. My mountain is being carved, now it just needs the tunnel entrances cut, but its so messy there's foam everywhere. The idea is for this to be test run for rocks and trees, if it doesn't work its fine as its not on the layout yet. 

The goal is to get one corner of the layout finished,be Christmas, and the storage shelf/bridge/ shelf layout working. At the same time I'm busy with a fairly large vintage rc glider, so there is lots of scrap balsa available for layout building

Al


----------



## Owl

*The scheduling system*

So far the new scheduling system seems to work well. It is ideal for a quick train session after work, and then allows me to "exercise" one of my locos whilst working on aeroplanes. So, the railroad has now both a feeling of purpose about it, as well as being just pure fun. Its also something to watch when stuck with an aeroplane problem, and seems to help one think. 

It also can combine well with a more intense operating session, as long as the trains eventually end up where they should be for the next day. So, we'll try running things like this for a couple of months and see how it goes. One thing with this hobby :- it seems well worth taking things very slowly, and being prepared to start over if not happy as new ideas present themselves continually, and refinements to both how one operates and the layout itself take a lot of thought.

Thanks to everyone for their input, its all very helpful and interesting, and I hope you're enjoying watching a layout come to life as much as I am enjoying learning about model railroading.

Al


----------



## DonR

Owl

What scheduling system are you using? Car cards with pick up and drop
instructions?

I use mine often. It provides an all afternoon operating session switching
cars among industries and/or building a train. It gives 'purpose' to your
operations and makes the moves more meaningful than simply randomly
moving cars from here to there.

Don


----------



## Owl

Hi Don- I only have 8 or 9 cars, so at the moment I seldom move individual cars.

I am currently running two systems. With the one there is a daily schedule, so for instance I have a logging train that picks up logs, and then later in the week delivers them to the sawmill. Another train is scheduled to,load at the sawmill one day, and then deliver to a factory. So each train has scheduled work to do through the week. One train is scheduled for laps most days (I have 4 locos) so that they all get a chance to exercise. This is because they seem to not like standing much, and it also shows up unreliable sections of track. 

This is all not terribly exciting, but is pretty much how the local trains ran when the railroad was still active. It also dovetails nicely with my other hobby of building rc planes, as that tends to get more time from me (we all know how limited hobby time can be).

The second operating system I have consists of a deck of cards with destinations and train numbers , which I work through. This can keep me busy for an hour or more. I am currently working on my switching skills, and then individual cars will get there own tickets and be moved around.

Eventually the idea is to have some fixed, scheduled traffic, and then "special" loads which will involve switching. To this end there will be a "storage" shelf where various different kinds of cars will be parked off the layout, and can be brought in or out of play. 

Yip, my system is a bit basic at the moment, but its enough to,confuse me at present! At times, I have to confess its lovely to set a couple of trains running slowly, sit back with a cup of coffee and just watch them.....


----------



## Owl

*Carving foam*

Been aching to have a mountain with a tunnel ... I already have a funny shaped piece of foam packing just right for the job, the problem has been cutting it.

In desperation, I tried a really old steak knife, and it works like a charm. Not much mess, a nice clean cut and the blade is stiff enough you can carve a bit with it. Needless to say it is now safely in my hobby shed. Now the scenery can start....

Al
















The mountain is just been quickly sprayed so that its not pristine white - trees and rock faces coming soon (ish)


----------



## Cycleops

Owl said:


> Been aching to have a mountain with a tunnel ... I already have a funny shaped piece of foam packing just right for the job, the problem has been cutting it.
> 
> In desperation, I tried a really old steak knife, and it works like a charm. Not much mess, a nice clean cut and the blade is stiff enough you can carve a bit with it. Needless to say it is now safely in my hobby shed. Now the scenery can start....


You can make a mess free foam cutter by running a thin wire across a wooden U shaped frame, connecting a 12 volt battery.


----------



## Owl

Hi gents, afraid no exciting updates at the moment. Work and building a model plane to a deadline have temporarily halted railroad modeling. But trains are running to schedule which is fun.

Still waiting for my F3 Southern Pacific, and will post some photos when it arrives

Al


----------



## Owl

*Time to glue*

Hi there, back into some serious railroading. I am really happy with the layout currently, and it seems to run smoothly, with most of the problem areas identified and fixed. It really is a slow process, but a most rewarding one! 

My biggest problem currently is that the whole layout migrates quite a lot. Most likely due to both the big temperature swings in workshop, and the fact its all flex track. So the moment has arrived to start gluing sections down. 

I have my first bit of scenery properly worked out, and hope to start working on it this weekend. 

So, although its not full throttle forward we have at least released the brakes


----------



## Cycleops

If you mean by migrating the track is expanding and contracting it won't be solved by gluing. It's a problem where you have large variations in temperature. I think youll need to leave larger gaps at the track joins. Don't have a problem with it myself as it's mostly hot here, but I did see a video of guys layout in Australia where it was a big problem. Maybe someone on here could better advise you.


----------



## Owl

Yip, its the big variation in temperatures that seem to be a problem. Although its warming up a bit now, at night it can get down around zero, and then in the day the shed can get pretty hot even though it has a proper ceiling etc. - maybe around 30 deg C.

What I was thinking is to glue the key areas down - for instance around the interchange/station where good alignment is essential, and at the joints between the flex track. The rest could be left to "float " . If it then stretches and contracts it can move a little, but at least stay in more or less the same position. At the moment the curves slowly try and straighten themselves which is a little frustrating! I have generally tried to avoid having any perfectly straight sections anyway, so a little movement is ok. Does that sound as of it will work?


----------



## Owl

*fiddle yard*

There was a mix up with the order, but my new loco is on the way at last. Instead of an f3 its now an F7 in war bonnet colours . Nope, it doesn't fit the layout theme, but it is my favourite scheme...

It now makes sense to me to finally build my fiddle yard for loco storage, which also opens up the engine shed (where my locos are currently stored) as a destination. 

Hopefully Sunday will be railtoading day....

Al


----------



## Owl

*scenery*

Made a start on some scenery at last! Its huge fun, but very messy. I'll take some photos later when the glue has dried


----------



## Owl

Well, its not finished yet, but not to bad for a first attempt. Also have two trees drying, but will only be able to see what they look like tomorrow
































Al


----------



## traction fan

*Expansion/contraction issues*

Owl;

I once belonged to a club who's building(an old army barracks) had wide temperature swings.
We did have some track problems, but not many. The reason for this was un-soldered rail joints,
with gaps at each joint. For electrical continuity, we soldered a drop wire to the center of each track section and soldered the drops to large bus wires. Thus we never had to depend on rail joiners to conduct electricity. All track was glued down but the many gaps, at all those joiners, kept things under control.
Be aware that wood, like a plywood train table, can also expand, contract, and warp due to humidity and temperature changes. Painting all wood surfaces helps reduce this.

Traction Fan


----------



## Owl

Thanks Traction Fan, I will keep that in mind!


----------



## Owl

*trees again*

Back to the tree thing- after rereading all the advice, perusing web sites and generally just looking around it seemed I still had no trees! So, the obvious solution was just to make a couple of trees and see how they look. So, collected some twigs, coated them with glue and added woodland scenic bush stuff. They actually look pretty good, except it never occurred to me to hang them up while they dried, so they're a bit flat on one side.... But they look fine against my hill. 

So- I have an arbitrary size for a small to medium generic tree- but looking at how trees tower over the old local railway I will also make some much bigger ones.

At least now I have an idea what's required before the next scenic session, and it will go a lot quicker. 

I have enjoyed all the phases of learning layout building, but scenery is may be the most fun yet!

I'll post a pic of the two little trees later in the week

Al


----------



## Magic

Owl, Here's what I do for trees. 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=287041&postcount=107

These are HO but you can build them in any scale.
Found using Spackle or other joint compound works best for thickening up the armature. 
Makes a very good tree when you use Woodland Scenics foliage stuff.

Magic


----------



## Owl

Thanks for the link Magic, that's really cool


----------



## Owl

*Its Fun*

As often happens, general life has intruded into hobby time, and my OSM&B has been lying dormant for an age. It has always been intended as a very long term project, and purely for relaxation so that's actually OK. 

But, at last I had a half hour to just relax, and fired up the railroad. Sent the Mikado 2-8-2 off on some very slow laps, and then happily dispatched the other trains here and there. Completely forgot about everything for a while, just relaxed and had a whole train load of fun

Being a very technical and challenging hobby, one can get so wrapped in the finer points its easy to forget sometimes the absolute joy of just operating a complete railroad in miniature. Sitting there backing an SD40 into the town station while the Mikado rumbles by puts such a big smile on my face, its worth every minute of every evening spent on the layout!!!! 

You all know it, but at the end of the day, MODEL RAILROADING IS JUST PLAIN FUN

Happy railroading folks
Al


----------



## Fire21

Owl, that is a truly wonderful post! As you said, we can get so involved in the details that we forget the purpose of model trains...relaxation, enjoyment, and fun. Sometimes just sitting back and watching a train circle the layout, whether it's 3' x 6' or 30' x 100', is just purely fun. Hearing the motor growl, the click of the wheels on the track, and seeing the headlight wind it's way through your miniature environment can be so relaxing.

Thanks for reminding us that sometimes fun for fun's sake is fully acceptable.


----------



## Magic

Owl I hear you on this. I've been busy with a mainline redo and haven't run trains for some time. Got the track laid and began testing it with a GP9 AA set. Worked good.
Tried some steam with the Pacific, just fine. Next I just watched them go round n round for about and hour. No switching or making up consist just let em run. What a great time. You some times gt so cought up in building you forget to run.

Magic


----------



## Owl

Glad you guys feel the same! 

Been busy with an aeroplane for the last while - all the basics are done, but it needs a couple of longish intensive sessions now. There's no hurry (or real enthusiasm on my part), so the work bench is cleared and going to do some more scenery. I have a good selection of foam packaging pieces now, so it should be really low intensity fun. The only problem with railroading is that nice simple small projects sort of take on a life of their own..... But, going to try jeep it simple, and then I can always come back and redo bits later.

Al


----------



## wrainey

*Newbie*

Hello everyone:smilie_daumenpos:
I'm really new to model railroading and don't even have a layout. I am trying to get started with a n scale set but don't know where to go from there. If you could tell me some good ways to get the ball rolling that would be great. The largest layout size i can have is two by three feet.

Thanks,
wrainey


----------



## Fire21

wrainey said:


> Hello everyone:smilie_daumenpos:
> I'm really new to model railroading and don't even have a layout. I am trying to get started with a n scale set but don't know where to go from there. If you could tell me some good ways to get the ball rolling that would be great. The largest layout size i can have is two by three feet.
> 
> Thanks,
> wrainey


Wrainey, I googled "2 x 3 n-scale model railroads", and this is just one example of the info that popped up:
http://www.thortrains.net/nscale/nminis2.html

Take your time gathering info. Make some decisions like, do you want a specific time period for your layout, or do you just want some trains? Do you want a rural setting or urban? Do you want steam power or diesel or both? Learn about flex track...it allows a lot of different track plans that pieces of pre-formed sectional track limits.

Here's the most important advice I ever received: This is YOUR railroad...make it how YOU want it to be. It doesn't have to be a perfect representation of a real railroad unless YOU want it to be. Feel free to invent a time period...past, present, or future. Have fun with it and don't let details weigh you down.

Good luck!


----------



## Owl

Hi Wrainey- welcome to the insanity! Fire's advice is spot on! Me, I'm still learning, and so don't really have much to offer advice wise. 
There are vast number of layout plans on the web- probably too many! But, I found this page most helpful http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm

For me, I initially just wanted trains running around my workshop. Nothing fancy, just a long continuous loop. I gave no thought steam/diesel/epoch etc.

Fortunately, the train shop I found was reputable, and obviously more interested in repeat business than a quick profit. Also, by the time I got around to actually starting I had done some research. I know from my rc planes that the most expensive brand is often not the best, but also that going bottom of the line is false economy.

So - after a couple of hours in the shop I left with a couple of turnouts, 12m of flex track, 2 locos, a couple of wagons and a simple second hand Digitrax DCC controller. This kept me busy for months, and then gradually the expansion began......

If possible, it may pay dividends to find a dedicated train shop, where the guys have enough time to chat with you, and where they are happy to allow you to browse as long as you want. Talk to them about your available space, see what they stock, and then go home and mull it all over. In my case I wanted to run steam, and have a Mikado 2-8-2, but I've fallen in love with the big diesel locos and the bright yellow Union Pacific colours. Just as well I wasn't to locked in to a fixed idea. 

Also, don't be put off by any apparent complexity - there's nothing particularly difficult, just some skills you can learn one at a time- this hobby eats a lot of time.

Also, even if you have limited space, its worth allowing for some expansion if at all possible...

Mostly, take lots of time , ask lots of questions until you are satisfied the answers make sense, and just enjoy yourself! 

Have fun, and let us know how it goes?

Al


----------



## Owl

Time to experiment! I'm going to try a rock face. A friend bought me a rock face kit, but I want to try something a bit more fun. Seeing as there are lots of cats at home, I'm always buying cat litter, and I think cat litter mixed with glue and a bit of paint could be just the thing. It could also make a nice surround for the tracks.... Another bonus is its cheap! 

I'll let you know what happens (worse case scenario is a big mess and a big smile)

Al


----------



## Cycleops

Owl said:


> I'll let you know what happens (worse case scenario is a big mess and a big smile)


Particularly if the cat gets to it first!


----------



## Owl

, that wouldn't really be the texture one wants...


----------



## Owl

*mixed success*

The first experiment with cat sand has begun

Clearly I hadn't thought this through! Cat sand absorbs moisture, right? I poured out some sand, added glue and ended up with cat sand conglomerates. Not useless, but they don't spread on like a paste. Not particularly happy with the results, I then added another layer of glue to the scenery and then poured cat sand on, which seems to have worked. The combination looks ok to me- but I'll leave it to dry, and then have a look in the morning. 

At the moment all the scenery is removable, so it gets built at my desk and then added on. Just seems a much better idea than building it on the layout until more technical expertise is acquired.

This technique will work really well for the gravel around the tracks (ballast?), a swipe of glue, pour some sand, leave it overnight, then vacuum the excess off. But, it may be better to use fine cat sand.

If there's something to show I'll post some pics when I'm done.


----------



## Owl

The semi finished product looks interesting, but not quite what I was after. Anyway, have added some greenery, and once its dry it will go on the layout, and I'll post some photos.


----------



## Owl

*Not Too Bad*

The pictures tell the story
















































Definately worth the effort, and with a bit of fiddling will look decent I think

Al


----------



## Owl

*Eclectic*

Things are getting strange around the OSM&B- my F series in war bonnet colours is hopefully on the way, and in the meantime I was lucky to score a really nice second hand Dash 8 in UP colours, but with Lionel woody passenger cars..... It sort of fits with my idea of a small branch with its own old equipment, but also serviced by the UP mainline. Now we have forestry industry, also supplied with some freight, a budget passenger service, and I think some tank cars will fit in there just fine

Just been hauling some freight, and the embankment definitely adds some feel. Now to do the other side, and finish my mountain!!!! The next projects are a dedicated siding for steam, and a tunnel over the middle of the "U". The tunnel will give a nice visual break to the layout, as well as providing somewhere to put my coffee cup down.


----------



## Magic

Not so strange really. Many times you'd see foreign power on local tracks.
When you get into the late seventies and later with all the mergers taking place you could see almost anything.

I'm doing the Southern Pacific in 1958 So Cal but UP and ATSF also ran that area.
My next loco purchase will be ATSF F7s in warbonnet. Beautiful locos.

Scenery really makes a big difference. Things will look better all the time.

Magic


----------



## Old Dude

Al. Welcome. Gee, if you think things have changed in 30 years....imagine how I feel. I've been modeling for 60 years! 

Do you see Diesel Rail Cars in SA? The Brits have some running around the UK, especially in some of the more rural areas. Models of these in N Scale are nearly non-existent. There are a few in HO, but have seen none in N. If you have a line on them, please let me know. 

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Owl

Hi Dave- wow; 60 years is a lot of modeling!

I am not sure, but I don't think we have diesel rail cars out here. If I come across one I will be sure to let you know


----------



## Cycleops

Hello and welcome Old Dude. Like your avatar. Do you have a particular affecrtion for the Underground? If you haven't been there and travelled on it its worth a trip,plus there's a load of railway related places of interest in the UK. Incidentally there a also the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) which is part of the underground network which is run by computer, no drivers, cool.
Yes, rail cars are used on a lot of rural services in the UK. They have a opposed cyclinder flat diesel under the floor, like an old VW and sound similar. There are loads of models available in N & OO.


----------



## Palmpilot

*Absolutely*

Al and Cycleops..

Al....I am looking for class 153, 156, 170 and a few others...kind of like big buses or coaches on rails.

Cycleops..my wife is English and we visit every year for a week plus. Now staying in London, but journey to the country frequently. The DLR is slick. And going to Canary Wharf is a kick. We usually take the river taxi to Greenwich to the observatory and have tea in the park. Last rode on a rail car...Sprnter actually....from Kings Lynn to Newmarket via Cambridge. The U.K. Is a rail fan's heaven. Love it love it. So I want to model it. Tough part is to find rolling stock that is even similar. Some HO stuff out here, but minimal N. Think class 66 Freghtliners! Thanks for the info. Love this forum. Oh. And yes, the Underground. I am so scary ...I actually have it memorized out to zone 4. Our usual haunts..

Dave.


----------



## Cycleops

That's very interesting. Next time you're in the UK try to visit Beer in Devon, in the south west. Peco have a large leisure park there dedicated to the rail enthusiast, there are layouts, live steam NG and more. A great day out. Details on their site. 
If you want stock for a British layout try these people https://www.ehattons.com/ they ship to the US and have large stocks.


----------



## Old Dude

*Rail Head*

Hello Owl...

Did a little research here. Are you anywhere near the Waterval Boven Rail yard? Is there any passenger service there? May be a good area for research! Sometimes seeing the real thing makes a huge difference.
Dave


----------



## Owl

Hi there Dave- Waterval Boven is only a hundred k's or so away, so not too far. Not so long ago we still had trains in Sabie, but I think this line is permanently out of use now.

The local stations are still standing, and not derelict.

Sabie is a little town at the bottom of Long Tom Pass, and sits on the old line between Nelspruit and Graskop. A really pretty town halfway up an escarpment.

But I may go take a look in Boven one of these days....

Thanks 
Al


----------



## Owl

*Too Slow?*

I really enjoy running my trains slowly - but is it ok to do so? I'm running DCC, so I assume the there must be resistors and things in the locos? Do they get very hot or am I completely unnecessarily concerned? Electronics is really not my forte at all! 

It really is a joy to watch big locos just slowly ambling by.... Its also possible to operate 3 trains at once if they are all going slowly, which is a lot of fun! Then one train gets to be prioritised and made to wait on a passing line while another goes by


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## DonR

The DCC decoder determines the voltage to your loco's motor, most likely
electronically rather than by resistors. You won't be doing any
harm to your locos running them slow...It's likely that most of us
prefer running slow. The slower the loco runs, the less current
it draws, incidentally. So you can get just as creepy as you like
and without a worry in the world..

Don


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## Owl

Thanks Don, I feel much happier now


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## Owl

*Extra Fun*

Hi Folks! Its time for the biannual drive up to the city, so its time for some train shopping!

Going to pick up a new (second hand) loco and some cars, and also extra rolling stock. A one car train is fine, but after all this time they can now grow a bit I think. Maybe some little people for the station, and some more led's as lighting is easy and fun.

While I have the chance to actually buy stuff in person (I really don't like internet shopping), anyone got any suggestions for fun additions? Not tools or things, but something to actually add to the layout? 

Al


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## DonR

I enjoy scratch building for the layout, everything from a simple
frame building under construction to a complex Ice plant with
reefer car icing platform.

I like to keep on hand various styrene construction beams and
shapes, as well as basswood or balsa construction lumber. That
way when an idea pops up I can just start work without another
annoying trip to the Hobby Shop.

So, what I'm suggesting is that if you think you might want
to do any scratch building
look at the hobby shop stock of Everygreen, Plastruck and other
styrene pieces as well as their basswood or balsa stock and take
home a supply.

If you plan any landscaping check out their W/S and other
greenery materials.

It's also helpful to have on hand an extra 3 foot length of
flex track and maybe a turnout or so. And, don't forget
a supply of Kadee #148 whisker couplers and metal 33"
wheels.

Don


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## Owl

Thanks Don! I'm sorted in the wood department, as my other hobby is building rc planes (from plans with a pile of balsa and a bunch of no. 11 blades), but I never gave styrene much thought. Will definitely look at it, and see what they have. I've used some WS bush stuff, but think I need more shades. Never thought of wheel sets and couplers, so they're also on the list now.

Fortunately last time I ordered track I was frustrated from waiting because if shipping delays, and went a little overboard!!! But then, extensions are imminent so a little track wouldn't be wasted at all...

At the stage now where I can both operate the railroad, and build, and as you say- there's nothing worse than getting the urge to make something and not being able to.

Thanks again!

Al


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## Cycleops

The best purchase you can make imho is a sound decoder and speaker. The most fun you'll ever have with your clothes on!


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## Owl

That would be a decoder for each loco? It does sound like fun! (pun not intended)

I looked up some structures they have, but they are too beautiful for my layout! My existing scratch structures would look too basic. Would rather revamp my existing buildings over time...

Guess I'll just have to have fun browsing

Al


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## Owl

Had great fun train shopping! The second hand Dash 8 is running which is a relief. Also got some mixed cars to fill up my trains- bought more than intended, and bit of an eclectic mix, but the trains do look better now that they are a little longer

Also got some more bush stuff, some grass to try, and (I'm ashamed to admit) some premade trees

That fun item I was after? Well, its a die cast model that's inspired a scene for a space that needs filling. (that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it!)

I'll post some photos when I get around to firing up the PC.

Al


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## Owl

The "new" Dash8 is at the station. My work train just got a little longer


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## Cycleops

Whose birthday is it? Very nice, although green wouldn't be my choice for a a cake!


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## Owl

Cycleops said:


> Whose birthday is it? Very nice, although green wouldn't be my choice for a a cake!


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## Owl

Just discovered Woodlands Scenics grass, and that it sticks to wet paint. Almost finished my mountain now (the "cake")- so the adjoining station is now "Gateaux").

At work there is a huge coal fired boiler, and the ash that comes out is very fine. I was wondering if it could be used on my railroad? I assume it not toxic or corrosive?

Al


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## Owl

*scenery*

Having some fun with a little scenic work. Have started adding a little ground texture, painting between the tracks etc. Its really quite satisfying, and makes a monster difference! What surprised me the most though, is that it seems the best scenic material is all the rubbish left over when you're finished. Sort of dirty gritty mixture of sand, bush stuff, grass and paint. 

Waiting for the side of a cutting to dry, then I'll post a pic.

Al


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## Owl

*Update*

A pictorial update:
D


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## VegasN

*Layout*

That is very cool. You are further along than I am.......


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## Owl

Thanks Vegas! Its just one little corner, but slowly getting there.


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## Owl

*Still here*

Hi folks, well still around 

I finally managed to get some little people for my station, and also gave in and got a Bachmann 2-10-2. What a lovely loco! And it can make it around the curves, which is a major bonus. 

I have been having a problem getting onto the site, but will post some pictures again soonish. I think the mainline extension will be happening soon as well, which will be fun. 

Al


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## VegasN

Nice! I have been toying with the idea of adding a steam locomotive. And one little corner is all I have filled in so far as well. May have had more done by now, but spent some time on adding on to my table, adding a small rail yard, redoing my controller, and getting some more of my house done. Oh, and work interrupts all that, Mon. - Fri. 6:00 - 5:00.


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## Owl

I hear you! Luckily this is a hobby that seems best tackled slowly and savored . Steam locos are fun, and just add something to the railroading experience. (even if they are not always really era appropriate)


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## Fire21

Even in today's modern world, steam locos are appropriate on excursion trains. Don't even need to redecorate them, because many have been revived in their original markings.


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## VegasN

I actually just got approved to take over a largely unused bedroom. So I moved Betzville today. I'll be posting pics in my layout thread in just a bit. I am planning on starting my first expansion right away!! So in my expansion, I was thinking about adding a steam locomotive to service a coal facility. But first I am doing the other side and getting all my freight trains running to a......I am not sure yet, either a city, or the mountains and mines, or a larger rail yard....or.......maybe even just a scenic loop for my passenger train.


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## powersteamguy1790

VegasN said:


> I actually just got approved to take over a largely unused bedroom. So I moved Betzville today. I'll be posting pics in my layout thread in just a bit. I am planning on starting my first expansion right away!! So in my expansion, I was thinking about adding a steam locomotive to service a coal facility. But first I am doing the other side and getting all my freight trains running to a......I am not sure yet, either a city, or the mountains and mines, or a larger rail yard....or.......maybe even just a scenic loop for my passenger train.


VegasN:

Adding a steam locomotive to service a coal facility is a wise choice.


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## VegasN

powersteamguy1790 said:


> VegasN:
> 
> Adding a steam locomotive to service a coal facility is a wise choice.


Thanks!!


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## Owl

*Still alive*

Hi folks, still alive and railroading . Had a forced abscence because of internet problems....these things happen.

Some more scenery has been added on one side of the layout, and I have decided that the other side of the layout needs a bit more thought. Its ok at present, but could be better....

Ill post a photo or two soon.

Al


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## Owl

A view from the workbench. Proper






photos soon....


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## VegasN

Looks cool. Can't wait to see more.


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## Owl

Thanks Vegas!


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## Owl

As happens, work has got in the way life, but since the beginning of march have slowly caught up on other projects. Today I wiped down the rails, fiddled here and there, and sent the 2-10-2 off galloping. Always a good test to see if everything still working 

Still got lots of building to do, but am really enjoying this relaxing project

Al


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## Cycleops

Looking good Owl. Shame we can't see the overall track plan.


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## VegasN

Looking very good! Where are you? Those are very interesting outlets......


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## bewhole

VegasN said:


> Looking very good! Where are you? Those are very interesting outlets......


Google where he is from that Location is real.


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## Owl

Thanks guys . I live in a small town on the Northern part of the Drakensberg escarpment in South Africa.

The track plan is pretty simple- its basically a double main line oval folded into a U. There was something on paper, but it has grown and changed over time as experience has shown what works best. 

The idea was to have something to entertain me while busy with other things in my workshop, but now there are stations, interchanges- and it even gets "operating sessions"! One of these days there will be a main line run round the whole workshop. A terrible hobby.... You need more track so the trains can do more, then you need more trains, then you're not happy with the scenery...it sort if gets a life of its own, doesn't it?


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## VegasN

That it does my friend......that it does.


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## Magic

A life of it's own. That's almost an understatement.
Good to see you're making progress Owl. Looking good.

Magic


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## Eusjim

*Some derailing*

Noticed your comment early on and excuse me if you already solved it. Two derailment problems plagued me for years in ho and then n 1) improper design of s-curves. 2) lightweight rolling stock. You can look up number 1. For weight I have referred to the nmra RP-2, bought myself a scale, and have added weights per the nmra guidance. Every car weighed half or less than NMRA recommended. Wow. What a difference in the train running experience. 
Let me add a third.....atlas turnouts with either too high of plastic at base of frogs or too narrow of clearance between two outer rails and guard rails
Good luck Al. 
Jim in Dallas.


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## Owl

Thanks Jim- I had forgotten about the derailing thing. It was largely due to irregular track laying I think. Also, bits kept getting repositioned and I think the track and one turnout were no longer true. Definitely going to look at car weights though- sounds like an excellent idea.


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## Eusjim

Here is a handy weight tool. http://www.wesleysteiner.com/mr/NMRATemplateN.pdf
I found that most cars weighed half of the recommended amount. Just saw the photo of your rain layout. Looks nice.


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## VegasN

Oh joy!! Just learned something new......awesome.


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## 89Suburban

Great more money, now I need to buy a scale LOL!!!

Hey OWl, you really off to a nice start on that layout, looks really nice.


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## Owl

Thanks Gents - you make me want to get on with some railroading!

Got lots to do on a model plane, so will alternate hobbies this weekend


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## Owl

Been gone a while! So long the whole forum looks different! 

I decided I don't like my complicated marshalling yard, and not only don't I use it, but its a source of continual glitches. So, have done away with it, and am adding a nice big fly over loop.

Happy railroading....

Al


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## 89Suburban

Looks good. Planes look good too.


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## Owl

Thanks


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## Owl

Just curious - has anyone ever actually reached a point where they are happy with their railroad? Mine still needs scenery etc, but every 6 months or so something starts bugging me...

I really thought I was happy, and now reworking half the layout. Again... 

At least with some experience, is gets a lot easier!


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## CTValleyRR

Owl said:


> Just curious - has anyone ever actually reached a point where they are happy with their railroad? Mine still needs scenery etc, but every 6 months or so something starts bugging me...
> 
> I really thought I was happy, and now reworking half the layout. Again...
> 
> At least with some experience, is gets a lot easier!


It's not that unusual, really. I'm on my 3rd rebuild since I got back into the hobby 15 years ago.


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## Owl

Decided to do a fly over. The basics work, but now its time to build a proper structure


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## Owl

The new fly over is at last working! It now gives me the option of running a train continuously on both loops... Or all kinds of other fun things. Now it just needs proper support, and finishing. Showing my 2-10-2 getting through succesfully






.


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