# Trouble shooting vintage Lionel



## links0311 (Dec 18, 2010)

My Dad just passed down a Lionel train set he had as a child (making it about 60 years old). The last time I remember this train operating was in 1992. It's been in a sealed barrel ever since. Once it arrived at my house I took it out of the barrel, built a small oval and checked to see if it would run. I used a BLT-857 locomative, attached the track to the transformer and plugged it in. I could hear humming from the track and the transformer was vibrating slightly. I increased the power on the transformer and the lights in the locamotive turned on bright, but the train wouldn't move. I took it to about 70% power and backed it off since there was still no movement. There is a small switch on the top of the train that was in the back position, so I tried it in the front position and still nothing. I don't know anything about trains and was hoping you all could suggest some trouble shooting tips. I have pictures I can email too if anyone is interested. Thanks.

-Beau


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Are you discussing a blue Missouri Pacific number 202?


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Beau -- you should upload some pictures here. Click on the "go advanced" tab down below, then use the paper clip icon to browse then upload your photos. You need to identify the loco better ... "BLT-857" ???

T-Man -- how did you pull a "202" i.d. out of Beau's comments above? Magic? 

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Sometimes I wear my foil hat and they speak to me.

Easy 

it has a Built 8 57 on the side. A few others have it too!

1957 ALCO


----------



## links0311 (Dec 18, 2010)

It's a blue Missouri Pacific 205, but you all were close. I'll try and attach some pictures below.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

links0311 said:


> It's a blue Missouri Pacific 205, but you all were close. I'll try and attach some pictures below.



I would first try and take the uncoupler track out and apply your power to the track with a clip. It is called a lockon.

Yours is not how to hook up power to the rail. That has a button to push that unhooks couplers.












If you don't have one temporarily just take the hot wire and jam it under the center rail and put the other to an outside rail.

The uncoupler track looks like it needs a good cleaning too.

A lot of your track is rusty too. You need to get new track or try scotch brite pads and goo gone or wd40 to clean the rust off.

See what happens.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Sometimes I wear my foil hat and they speak to me.
> 
> Easy
> 
> it has a Built 8 57 on the side. A few others have it too!


I'm impressed, T-Man ... I didn't see that rabbit coming out of that hat.

Beau,

I'm gonna throw a general loco service link your way, along with some specs on the 205. Read through both, and it'll help here in the debugging, part and assembly identifying, etc.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=627

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/205.htm

TJ


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> I'm impressed, T-Man ... I didn't see that rabbit coming out of that hat.
> 
> Beau,
> 
> ...



look at his pictures it wont go because of the hookup and track.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I was close? Aside with a senior moment on the number I beg to differ.

Enough of that .

Take the shell off. One screw in the back. Be careful of the front apron DON"T BREAK IT. That is the main rule with this engine. Ed has some good pointers on the 6019 track. I hope the power wasn't running through the coil all the time. 45 watts is not a lot of power. Try making a circle until the engine reacts better.

Next see how the eunit cycles with shutting the power off. The little drum has to turn and make sure it is not broken on the ends. Your manual should have the basics on cleaning.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> I was close? Aside with a senior moment on the number I beg to differ.
> 
> Enough of that .
> 
> ...



Besides the wrong hookup....look at the track...looks like it came up from the bottom of a river.:laugh:

Scotch brite (no sandpaper or steel wool) with goo gone or wd40. clean the track and just hook the wires up right before you start tearing the engine apart.

Even though you should oil and lubricate it if it came from the same "drum" you got the track in.


----------



## links0311 (Dec 18, 2010)

The first thing I'll do is clean the tracks and I found a lockon and will try that next. You guys have been great and I appreciate your patience.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

links0311 said:


> The first thing I'll do is clean the tracks and I found a lockon and will try that next. You guys have been great and I appreciate your patience.




Do clean the track, what really matters is the top of the rail and the pins.
Make sure they are nice and shiny.

A lot of us got stuff like yours in the same condition.

A little TLC will bring them back to life.

Try to clean the wheels and center rollers on the engine too. That is what powers the engine.
Make sure the lockon is free of rust and that the wire for hot is hooked to the center clip.

The underside of the engine doesn't look bad at all.

I was not making fun of your stuff. But you got to admit the track is fairly rusty. Did you find that "drum" in the Mississippi?:laugh:
Search here on the site for threads, cleaning track.

Just don't use steel wool or sandpaper.

One of our members recommends 5-20 weight oil for lube. As the grease lube tends to get hard after years.

Search T mans threads or Servoguys threads, you will find a lot of useful writups there.

Welcome to the site by the way.

And if you have a question ask away, you will or should get help here.


----------



## links0311 (Dec 18, 2010)

I've taken all of the track pieces out of the barrel and choose the ones that were in the best shape. I'll spend the next little while cleaning those up along with the trains themselves. I came across these two pieces and was wondering if I should be using them. One says it's a control switch #90 and the other is a track connector no. 154C. I'll definitely clean up the connector, should I use these also? Thanks.

-Beau


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The button can be used for the uncoupler track. The 154c is different, but clean it anyway. I think it is a weight activated switch.


----------



## links0311 (Dec 18, 2010)

So I can't use the 154C to power the track then? I'm going to run down to the local toy shop and see if he has any lockons. Why can't you use a fine 00 steel wool to clean the tops of the tracks? The WD40 got some stuff off, but the tracks don't look much better.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I just came up from the basement after cleaning about 30 straight sections, I'm using the wire wheel in the drill press, works well.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

you need the lockon in the above thread.

just take the wires and jam them in under the track hot under center and ground on an outside rail.

no need to hurry to the hobby store.

the 154c operates accessories like a RR crossing flasher ,as the wheels run over it it makes the lights flash.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

links0311 said:


> So I can't use the 154C to power the track then? I'm going to run down to the local toy shop and see if he has any lockons. Why can't you use a fine 00 steel wool to clean the tops of the tracks? The WD40 got some stuff off, but the tracks don't look much better.



you will forever be picking up steel wool in you trains stay away from it.

some engines have magnetic traction and you will draw it into the engine


a green "kitchen" scotch brite pad will do the trick

just the tops of the rail and you will be fine don't worry about the rest for now.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I use a wire wheel in the drill press to clean track. I don't see where it sheds any metal that would cause issues. I agree that a Dremel tool wire wheel will probably cause issues, those tiny little wires do spray out after a while.

One little trick that I do with all the track sections after I clean them is to demagnetize them. I use an old VCR bulk eraser, the one that's shaped like your mother's iron. This at least allows any magnetic debris to get released from the track before it's put to use.

Agree 100% about the steel wool, probably not a good choice for much cleaning around trains.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I use an old VCR bulk eraser, the one that's shaped like your mother's iron. This at least allows any magnetic debris to get released from the track before it's put to use.


Good tip ... I wish I had one of those ... 

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Good tip ... I wish I had one of those ...
> 
> TJ


I'll bet you could find one at a yard sale for peanuts, nobody erases VCR tapes nowadays! 

They're not as cheap as they were, I think I paid around $10 for mine.

http://www.pro-audio-warehouse.com/pf-215.html

Here's the exact one I have, and they don't look to be in big demand, current bid is $12.99. http://cgi.ebay.com/Radio-Shack-Hig...4801298?pt=BI_Blank_Media&hash=item230c92c792

A different model for $9.99: http://cgi.ebay.com/RadioShack-Bulk...1498722?pt=BI_Blank_Media&hash=item33636e33e2


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks ... I'll keep my eyes open at local yard sales and the like. I didn't realize they were powered. I thought that they were simply a big permanent magnet. I guess not.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A big permanent magnet would impart impossible bias on the tape and essentially destroy it for recording. You use the A/C current and also remove the bulk eraser to several feet from the tape before releasing the power switch to avoid the spike that would do the same thing.


----------

