# Review and Critique a Rough Track Plan



## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

Hello,
I’m in the process of building my first layout off of the carpet.

The room is 11x19 which scales me back to 10.5x18.5 for track work. I was attempting to do an around the room design with overlapping reverse loops with one be hidden in a mountain. With this plan I’m thinking of scraping the around the room plan in place of 30 inchesx19 feet of viewing area. This would eliminate 1 moveable benchwork module to occasionally access the closet but I would need a lift out or cut out to access the room.

For operating a layout, I prefer to be the role of dispatcher, train master and engineer. Anytime I built a yard I never used it more than once to play. However with this layout, I do want a point to point or point to same point run with a passenger station being the focal point with small engine area and spur for freight. One run of the layout has to be 072

For track, on hand, I have 3 lh 072, 3 rh 072, 1 lh 060, 2 rh 048 and 2 lh 048 switches, 2 loops of 072, half circle of 096, just under a complete of 060, and a loop of 48.

I attached photos of the current track plan. The reverse loop close to the view is 060 and would mostly be hidden. The 072 loop will be 7 inches above. Out of the 072 reverse loop, there is a small siding that is connected to the outer oval. On the right side that 072 switch would lead back to where the legacy remote is for the point to point area.

I appreciate everyone reviewing and helping. I do have rail modeler pro for mac.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I am unable to help much because I don't understand your description. Have you published a plan elsewhere? What does '072' mean?

Are you contemplating an overpass? You say a separate loop, but is that what you really mean, no crossing over, no grades? For 7" clearance, assuming that will suffice with a bridge taking up some of that distance from the lower rails, you'd want a ramp, or grade, at least 12' long. That's just under 5% grade which is highly undesirable, even for our models. If you add another five feet to the grade, you can get the grade to a more manageable 3.5%, still quite a bit steeper than most of us, and your motive power, like it.

Then you need to descend again on the other side.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

O scale uses diameter to classify curved sectional track rather than radius as in HO and N. So O72 would be 72” diameter curve.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I am trying to figure out where you are going to be in the room, how your making the tables? Or just suporting the track? How will you get to stuff if you need to? Derailment, scenery, change the light bulb in the room? Its easier on the floor to walk around things, harder when its set up on tables. Just throwing it out there. You need to plan everything.


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

*Mesenteria,*

For o gauge, the curves are measured by diameter so an 0-72 circle would be six feet in diameter. With this plan the reverse loops would be connected with a grade less than 4%. 

Zach


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

sjm9911 said:


> I am trying to figure out where you are going to be in the room, how your making the tables? Or just suporting the track? How will you get to stuff if you need to? Derailment, scenery, change the light bulb in the room? Its easier on the floor to walk around things, harder when its set up on tables. Just throwing it out there. You need to plan everything.


Hello,

I'd like to build an around the room layout. It would eliminate most distance to cover concerns with scenery or handling derailments. For bench work, if it has to support my weight I may lean to 3/4 plywood unless it is advised as not necessary. For bench work, if it does not have to support my weight 1/2 plywood. The bases would be 1x4 with bracing, depending on weight bearing requirement would determine table leg thickness.

Zach


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Are those grades on curves? If so you will need to calculate the effective grade. And the grade is not passed until the whole train is once again level. The locomotive may be on level track, but it is still pulling the train up the effective grade.


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> Are those grades on curves? If so you will need to calculate the effective grade. And the grade is not passed until the whole train is once again level. The locomotive may be on level track, but it is still pulling the train up the effective grade.


Yes, the grades will be along curves. For math for grade distance, does calculating the circumference work for distance?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Here is an effective grade calculator to figure your exact grades:

Effective Grade Calculator


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

I'm still having trouble figuring out your isles. Wouldn't you rather stand in the middle? A 19" wide viewing isle along one side is going to really suck later.

How do you feel about sliding doors on the closet? Perhaps you could eliminate the need for a lift out?

I'm playing with it in SCARM, O takes up a lot of room FAST lol.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I agree, looks more like a whole room layout. The problem may be the middle part. Looks like very little room to move around, as a person, not a train. Unless you just build the suports as wide as the track? What size track is the inner loop, the crossover one? Can you do a smaller diameter there?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

And , just for the record, im planning a new layout also, I am leaning twords scrapping the 072 loops, I have them and switches, it just eats up too much real estate.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

MichaelE said:


> Are those grades on curves? If so you will need to calculate the effective grade. And the grade is not passed until the whole train is once again level. The locomotive may be on level track, but it is still pulling the train up the effective grade.


Yes, this is true. Some forget during planning that they need a vertical curve at each end of a grade, and they take up part of the 'run'. So, what's left between them is all one can use for a steady climb, and this usually means at least another 1% to that steady grade.


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

sjm9911 said:


> And , just for the record, im planning a new layout also, I am leaning twords scrapping the 072 loops, I have them and switches, it just eats up too much real estate.


Yes, between an around the room design compared to a layout with only the front directly accessible, visually, I believe an around the room design would be strongly favorable in the long run and truthfully less of a nightmare to build.

For 0-72 loops, yea, I acquired the left hand 0-60 switch as I was figuring the 0-72 loops would be to large and I believe if I do reversing loops, they need to be 0-60. I could even do them in 0-48 but would rather not limit size of equipment on the half the layout. I look at a lot of 10x20 plans from the other o gauge forum and google for inspiration but I’m really getting hung up on this design.

Zach


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm probably stating the obvious but if using the grade calculator in post #9, your 0-72 curve is actually a 36" radius.


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

How does the O gauge handle the tight radius if you were to use a larger radius to approximate an easement?

Could you get everything to run on O-60 if you used some of your O-96 as easements? You might find you can accommodate the smaller radius and still run everything. Maybe even on O-48 with easements?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It dosent work well for some stuff. And if you see in first pictures , they have some bigger stuff to run. I was thinking, as I am contemplating my new layout, of more of an around the room layout. You would have to walk under to get to the middle. If you move all the tracks to the outside of the room, and get rid of the crossing in the middle, you may have room for a reverse loop on one side. Hope that make sense. If I have time tomorrow, ill try and draw something that resembles it. Will look like an 8 yo drew ot though.


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

Food for thought:

A 180° bend made with O-60 with 22.5° of O-96 on each end only adds 2.75" to the total turn, making it 62.75" center to center. It likely will accommodate longer cars than O-60 alone.

The top of the loop is all O-60, the bottom is with easements made from O-96.












Taking it one step further, if you do it with O-48 and O-96 easements you only gain only 3.75" giving you a 180° corner in 51.75"


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

sjm9911 said:


> It dosent work well for some stuff. And if you see in first pictures , they have some bigger stuff to run. I was thinking, as I am contemplating my new layout, of more of an around the room layout. You would have to walk under to get to the middle. If you move all the tracks to the outside of the room, and get rid of the crossing in the middle, you may have room for a reverse loop on one side. Hope that make sense. If I have time tomorrow, ill try and draw something that resembles it. Will look like an 8 yo drew ot though.


 I guess it comes down to what causes the derailments. Are the trucks on the cars binding on the body? Or are the coupler swings being maxed out? Easements will help with the couplers, but cant help trucks binding on the car bodies.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, I took five seconds and drew it. Lol. Add switches , and maybe a sidding or two. Could be inner loop, or on the outside, depending on room. Not ideal, but maybe a better plan. You can also , take the doors off the closet and put an accordian door on it.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thelic said:


> I guess it comes down to what causes the derailments. Are the trucks on the cars binding on the body? Or are the coupler swings being maxed out? Easements will help with the couplers, but cant help trucks binding on the car bodies.


I guess it would depend on the train. My wheels on my bigger engien would bind on the curves stopping it cold. On some the cars themselves can't navigate them. It would depend on what they have. I think the around the room will work the best, visually and in case something derails.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

And , I am no means a design person. So, if you dont like the ideas, no big deal. Just ideas. I have thick skin.lol


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

What size is the inner loop? If you do 072, 060, and 048 for the inner and the reverse loop you might have it down. The bigger stuff just will not be able to go into the inner loops. You may even be able to do bigger , you need to see how it fits on the outside of the room.


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

Thelic said:


> How does the O gauge handle the tight radius if you were to use a larger radius to approximate an easement?
> 
> Could you get everything to run on O-60 if you used some of your O-96 as easements? You might find you can accommodate the smaller radius and still run everything. Maybe even on O-48 with easements?


With o gauge, 0-72 will handle everything I know to be made by the major manufacturers. 0-60 will run about 75% of equipment but to the eye look slightly odd doing it.Easements look nice but with fast track; probably the same with other brands of track and two rail track as well, geometry comes into play and filler pieces may need to be cut. For equipment, some things are manufactures recommendation for a certain size curve and others, the piece will jump track on the smaller piece. With that being said, I did consider 2 0-60 reverse loops or even 0-48 to be able to have that feature on the layout.

Zach


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

Ok, here's my first entry.

I don't play a lot with set track, but I think I've kept the fudging down to an amount you can do without cutting.

The blue portion is a lower level at 0" elevation, the green is descending at 3.5% from the crossover. The red is all at 7" elevation. The yellow and blue make up complementing reverse loops, the yellow has room to add a spur/yard etc. Lots of room to stand in the middle, and it doesn't interfere with the closet (I think).










Minimum radius is O-72. Use your smaller stuff for spurs etc.


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

Thelic said:


> How does the O gauge handle the tight radius if you were to use a larger radius to approximate an easement?
> 
> Could you get everything to run on O-60 if you used some of your O-96 as easements? You might find you can accommodate the smaller radius and still run everything. Maybe even on O-48 with easements?


I gauge itself has features in engines and cars that help with the tighter curves. For example, that scale passenger car and auto rack are scale in length but can run on 0-54 by having a coupler spring out. In addition the couplers are spaced further from the next coupler to allow for that spacing. Anything though rated for a curve, generally needs that size curve.


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

Thelic said:


> Ok, here's my first entry.
> 
> I don't play a lot with set track, but I think I've kept the fudging down to an amount you can do without cutting.
> 
> ...


Wow!

So I laid a track plan similar to this but I had to much going on so I discarded it. Tonight, I was on rail model pro trying to do something very similar to this and was uneventful. Thank you for the help on it!

Zach


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## TrainManZac91 (Dec 26, 2021)

sjm9911 said:


> What size is the inner loop? If you do 072, 060, and 048 for the inner and the reverse loop you might have it down. The bigger stuff just will not be able to go into the inner loops. You may even be able to do bigger , you need to see how it fits on the outside of the room.


Thanks for the layout idea! I was learning for the around the room design similar to what you posted but the key was, I was afraid I’d get bored with it. Although with this design, the pros are easier benchwork building, layout setup, and maintenance. I was thinking a figure 8 cross but then it puts me into having what would appear as an island layout! Thanks for the suggestion!

Zach!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Whith what I drew, badly, you could add a inner spur line. Now , if you set the switches to auto change ( wire them to each other to switch when a train hits one the other activates) , when you run the inner loop the train will automatically go into the loop, then the reverse loop or take the spur. You can also controll it from a switch. That makes it a lot less boring.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, on a smaller scale, as this was 048 on the outside loop, 032 on the inside. This is the only thing that I had that really showed the reverse loops. The smaller sidings can be used, but are isolated, so I can park and run accessories. This is what I like, and may not be what you like. But it gives an idea of the reverse loop in the design.


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