# And so it begins...



## n-trails (Jan 20, 2014)

My first post.

I've been creeping around this site and many others, to include youtube, trying to get ideas for a layout. In doing so, I have come up with a few questions. I figured I'd lay everything out here in one post and have all of you experts weigh in.

First, advice for a layout... I have a 9'x6' space in my garage that I have been graciously allowed to use for model trains (no obstructions or doors to get in the way). I don't want a standard rectangle or dogbone, but some mix of the two would be great. Here are some of the features I'd like to see: Tunnels, mountains, lakes, reverse loop, wye, staging yard and a roundhouse (I know, I'm dreaming big). I understand if I can't get it all in. I've tried using SCARM, but have been having problems lining up the tracks once I add turnouts and getting the radius of the turns to match up is also a problem. I'd also like to be able to run 2 trains at the same time. 

I don't have a specific industry in mind and I'm not too worried about sticking super close to prototypes, so I have a little lee-way in what types of trains, cars and scenery I can use.

Now for a few technical questions.

Will I need to do anything specific to my set (the trains, tracks, benchwork) because it is in the garage? There are no climate controls and here in Delaware we have a pretty good temperature swing through the seasons. I hear nickel-silver is the best for track, is that true?

I plan on using 1x3s for an open benchwork and think I will use foam for the top and for hills/mountains (with no plywood). I will also use cork for roadbed. I'd like to be able to incorporate lights and crossings at some point, so it seems like I need to go with DCC. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh yea, scale. I'd really like to do this in HO, but I think I'd be limited with the space and all that I want to do, so part of me wants to go with N. I know the choice is mine and everyone has their own preference, but any advice I can get will help. I found the attached picture of an N scale layout that I really like (I wish I knew who to give credit to), but don't know how hard it would be to convert it to HO. I have some ideas to modify this so that I can make a sub-level so I can make an area for staging and possibly for a loop.

Part of me just wants to dive right in and start building the benchwork and make it up as I go along, but I've held back for now. I look forward to all of the help and information I get as I start this journey. meanwhile, back to the threads...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The garage is better than nothing, but you will have a lot of extra
clean up due to lack of climate control and the big door open often
to let in all sorts of unwelcome stuff. Sure would help if you could
cover up the layout when not in use. Corrosion is another
threat to a garage layout...corrosion affects electrical conductivity
whitch is important to a layout.

9 X 6 would make a nice relatively small HO layout but you would
not be able to work in the various ideas you would like.

It would make a very nice N scale layout. But can you handle the
small size of N scale gear. You will have to do service and other
work on the rolling stock. Can you see it. And I hope your
hands don't shake as do mine.

As to the geometry of your designs on SCARM...are you using it
set to sectional or flex track? For a layout of that size, HO or N
you would want to use flex track. It is much easier to use than
sectional and you do your own curves the way you want them.

I do very much like the N scale layout you have a link to. It offers
continuous running and a lot of switching. So many new to the
hobby fail to include enough spur and yard tracks that give you
the fun of switching operations. When thinking of your 'industries'
include the small companies that in bygone years used the
freight cars often...lumber dealers...food distributors...junk yards...
small appliance factories...metal industries...furniture companies..;.
sand and gravel yards (a track on a trestle for unloading) to name
a few. Almost every small town had stock pens and perhaps a
dairy that shipped milk in the big cans.

Also, it is good to see that you are giving DCC strong consideration.
If you want to run two or more trains at the same time it's the
only way to go. It does away with complex block and multi
power pack wiring. On the N layout pictured you could be running
4 or 5 trains at the same time with DCC. And, the lights stay on
and don't dim when your trains slow and stop. If you do go DCC
the one change in the N scale layout pictured I would make is to
go to single track main with passing sidings. There is a lot of 
operating fun running two trains going in opposite directions on
the single track (as most real railroads do now) and you can't
do it with DC.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, actually, you're probably doing yourself a disservice by posting all your questions in one place. It can be hard to post a coherent response.

Welcome to the boards, and the hobby, by the way.

So, your garage will probably work just fine for your layout. Temperature swings will be a problem for you more so than your layout. Contrary to popular belief, the materials you will use for your layout construction don't expand and contract that much over the lengths and temperature ranges you're likely to experience. Humidity, on the other hand will be a real challenge for you, especially in Delaware. It's not kind to electronics and metal, and it makes wood swell like crazy. Make sure any wood you have is sealed. Your decision not to use plywood is a good one, but there is a catch: you have no where below your layout to attach things, except by gluing. Just keep that in mind.

For track, yes, absolutely use nickel silver in that environment. Not only is it state of the art, but humidity will kill brass and especially steel track. 

HO vs. N. This is really a matter of tradeoffs and preferences. You've found a good layout plan, and you're limited in space, so if you can handle the small size, N will probably meet your needs very well.

DCC vs. DC. There are a lot of diehards (maybe that term is condescending -- it's not meant to be) in this hobby who swear by DC. Although the cost of entry is a little higher, i really can't see why anyone getting into this hobby at the present time would consider anything else. It just offers so many more advantages over DC that the latter doesn't bear considering unless you're going to forever limit yourself to a single train on a simple layout. Sure, some of those old timers are smart enough to do just about anything with DC that we can do with DCC, but why would you buy into that complexity when you don't have to.

So I think that covers most of your concerns. If not, ask away, and we'll do our best to get you an answer.


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## n-trails (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks for the support and advice. 

I'm getting better with SCARM. I took the advice to start using flex track. I'm working out issues with adding turnouts and making sure that parallel tracks are far enough apart. Also, it seems I am able to use crosses and turnouts from a variety of manufacturers in one layout. Some don't have curved turnouts for instance. That shouldn't be a problem when I actually start laying track, should it?

I like the suggestions for the different industries. I think that is where I am leaning. I think having a variety will make it more fun for me. If I get bored with one section I can move on to another and switch back again later.

One of the reasons I've been holding back from N scale is that my hands do shake a little. I fear that my desire to have all that I want in my layout may override the voice in my head that says "stick with HO". If I go with HO I plan on using code 83. Should I go with 55 for N?

It's good to know that a lack of wood on my table may cause some problems later. Other than glue, are there any other workarounds?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hello and welcome to the site, I will add a couple of cents here.

If you use foam board, the 2" thick foam boards on your main section it is fairly durable, it takes a lot to break it. But even then your better off gluing it onto a 1/8" or 1/4" plywood to strengthen it so in case you forget an lean on it too hard it won't break. Even a heavy sheet of cardboard will strengthen it. Though I would use a thin sheet of wood.
If you use the foam board to build something like you pictured, you can carve in rivers, lakes or something else if you want.
Two 2" sheets of foam sandwiched together will let you carve deeper. And at the same time strengthen it. It is still recommended to add under it a thin layer of wood.

N scale verses HO is up to you, though a 9x6 size would make a nice N scale layout.
In the end it is up to you to decide. If it is N scale pick yourself up a good lighted magnifier. There are a bunch on the market. And when you work do it where the floor is clean so when you drop something it will be easier to find, those little N pieces disappear forever sometimes when you drop them.

If you can put up with the heat of the summer you can buy a small portable heater to use in the winter. I have a small space heater that runs on propane and it keeps my over sized 2 car garage with a loft nice and toasty in the winter. When I want to work in the winter I just fire it up and in about 15 mins it is nice and warm. There are a variety of those on the market too. Insulating the garage some will help a lot too. If you have a window in the garage you could even stick a AC unit in it in the summer. I don't have a layout in the garage, nor do I have AC. But when I have to do something in the winter it is nice and toasty to the point that after it heats up I have to turn off the heater for a while. No cars see my garage either. :smokin:

You can even hoist the layout to the ceiling so that you can still use the garage for other things if you want we have some threads on this.
Here is one, there are more.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=25819&highlight=ceiling

*The first thing you have to do is decide on either N scale or HO scale.*


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Several factors to be aware of.

Be certain that all track accessories such as
turnouts and crossings are available for the
Scale and code you choose.

Try to stay with whatever brand for easiest
compatibility tho there are means to
adapt.

The length of turnouts varies among manufacturers,
for example a Peco is not a direct replacement
for an Atlas.

Look again at some N scale locomotives and
cars. Will you be able to do whatever maintenance
may be necessary.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I don't know how careful the creator of SCARM is with his databases, and how often he updates for availability. I have found that especially in N scale, things that were available when a library was created no longer are. Check the commercial availability of any piece you plan to use.

Also, while you can mix manufacturers, they are not completely compatible with one another. Some makes have thinner ties than others, resulting in a different height of the piece above the roadbed. If you do mix manufacturers, just make sure you check that everything lines up well before you fasten it all down.


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