# Signal lights on switches



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I have a bunch of two led holders with red and green 3mm LEDs. Is there a SIMPLE way to wire these into my switch machines to act as a signal for the turnout? Red is branch line, green is straight through. I have extra DC power packs or I have a few dc wall worts I could use. Or run the machines of DC and wire the lights in with that. I'm just not sure how to work this.

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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

If you were using one of these I would say yes, so easy a cave man could do it. If you are using twin coil machines, I don't know.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

vette,
if your switch machines have auxiliary contacts supplied, you use those. (like on the pic by MichaelE)
if not:
are you using a CDU? (CDU for each turnout) You can use 2-position maintained DPDT switches and let the LEDs (with resistors) reflect the maintained position of the toggle switch. (this does not physically prove the turnout position)
otherwise:
not simple


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Actually, one Capacitor Discharge Unit is all you need no matter
how many turnouts. When the DPDT switch is thrown it will
discharge into the turnout motor and 'die'. However, as long
as the switch is thrown the CDU cannot recharge.

I used the DPDT switch plus a momentary push button. The
switch selected straight or divert as well as powering the RED
and GREEN leds. Push the button to throw the points.
Since button is released and CDU is no
longer tied to turnout motor, it can immediately recharge.

This is a very awkward turnout control. If I were doing it today
I would used the Stapleton 751 D. It has built in CDU and does
control both turnout motor and signal lights.



751 SERIES ELECTRONIC TURNOUT SWITCHES



Don


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Hmm...Im losing some of the acronyms here...cdu?

I have Atlas turnouts and Atlas machines and switches, as well as a few peco machines and switches. I don't have room or desire to mount under the table, everything will sit on the surface, so I don't think I can even use the Pecos. I'm seeing some mention of an accessory switch that the turnout motor actuates simultaneous with the turnout? 

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I do have a few mighty mite switch motors that look like they are made to do this, but I can't figure out how to connect them. They make no sense. Three non insulated wires coming from the same sheath??









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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)




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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Ok, the mighty mite work, I don't understand it, but it works. Now the lights... Can someone explain this to me? The diagram didn't make sense to me. An AC power source that also for too DC rails?









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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Yes, what Don said is correct, feed the toggle switch with a pushbutton from the CDU.
Just Google "CDU turnout".


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

It's a little convoluted. The control uses the "power routing" feature of the turnout to connect the correct common polarity to the lights.
Personally I would attempt to wire the aux contacts differently, if possible. The motor itself is isolated (I think) so that the baseplate can be always + or always -.
Then you can wire the lights to the aux contacts and not to the rails


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

cid said:


> It's a little convoluted. The control uses the "power routing" feature of the turnout to connect the correct common polarity to the lights.
> Personally I would attempt to wire the aux contacts differently, if possible. The motor itself is isolated so that the baseplate can be always + or always -.
> I think. Then you can wire the lights to the aux contacts and not to the rails


Yeah, I see what it's doing now. I'm s like slow with electrical stuff! I just need to think about it a bit. Run the lights with a different per source but using this as a switch. Seems the easiest answer anyway. I hadn't looked into the cdu option yet. I think I have 5 or six of these machines. But I'll need more for the full layout.

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

If you use these, then you won't need maintained contact Toggle switches, so you won't need the button. 
The CDU discharge will protect the switch motors, and the momentary toggles willl allow the CDU to recharge.
The switch machine will maintain the power to the LEDs. It orter work...


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I'm not clear why I need the CDU? If I run a 12-15VAC power supply to the switch motor and a separate 12vdc supply for the lights using the Atlas switches to control the switch motor (mighty mite) and the mighty mite acts as a switch for the lights. 

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

The switch action must be momentary. Before long, someone will hold the switch too long.
It only takes a couple of seconds, and your switch motor will be toast.
The CDU discharges it's voltage thru the coil, so you can then hold the toggle switch over forever.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

cid said:


> The switch action must be momentary. Before long, someone will hold the switch too long.
> It only takes a couple of seconds, and your switch motor will be toast.
> The CDU discharges it's voltage thru the coil, so you can then hold the toggle switch over forever.


Ok, I see. I'm not seeing them on Amazon. Do you have a link to one that works for this purpose? 

Man I miss radio shack sometimes.

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

> Stapleton Electronics Switch/Indicator<


Something else which may interest you...


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Circuitron Snapper
Here's a link to a commercial unit, as requested, but personally I would build my own.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

DonR said:


> Actually, one Capacitor Discharge Unit is all you need no matter
> how many turnouts. When the DPDT switch is thrown it will
> discharge into the turnout motor and 'die'. However, as long
> as the switch is thrown the CDU cannot recharge.
> ...


You say you'll only need one? The only way I see the 751 working is with one for EVERY switch machine. 

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

"Something else which may interest you.. "
That is NOT a CDU, but a pulsed switch controller which handles the LEDs for you. 
Sorry if I changed the subject too quickly... My wife says I do that.
"Something else which may interest you.. "


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

cid said:


> View attachment 543877
> View attachment 543877


I tried for a while last night, but I could not get this configuration to work for me. I was able to get one light to illuminate, but not both. Looking at it, I just don't understand how it's supposed to work. One light doesn't seem to have a complete circuit. Maybe I'm missing something, or not reading the schematic correctly. But I've wired it exactly as the picture appears. Any ideas?

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

As I said before: "The motor itself is isolated (I think) so that the baseplate can be always + or always -.
Then you can wire the lights to the aux contacts and not to the rails  "

The published diagram wont work with polarity-sensitive LEDs.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Actually, I think the plate is designed to switch polarity with the rails when the switch is thrown. That's the way it looks now thinking about it. You have to use the rails for pretty and wire the plate to the point on the turnout which will change polarity when the switch is thrown. I wasn't planning to use rail power, but I guess I can.

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Yup, and depending which direction your train is running, each of those rails can be either positive or negative.
And when the train is stopped, no rail voltage, and no turnout indication.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

cid said:


> Yup, and depending which direction your train is running, each of those rails can be either positive or negative.
> And when the train is stopped, no rail voltage, and no turnout indication.


Yeah, not a great option. I think it can be done with a seller's source though. 

And the switches I'm using seem to be momentary switches. No matter how long they are pressed, they are only sending one "pulse" of power to the machine.

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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Not sure what the "Points" wire does, but the relay just switches the common lead to the lights between + and - rails with one of the lights is connected to + rail and the other to - rail so the relay will turn on the appropriate light. If you have replaced the incandescent lights with LED's then you need to careful with where the anodes and cathodes are because the need to be opposite on that common connection and they need separate resistors.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Got the lights working, thanks everyone. Now I'm fiddling with the arm to get the turnout to actually move smoothly. If they are all this finicky I might be better off using the Atlas switch machines and using a different wiring method!

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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

perhaps i'm too low-tech. since i have use ground throws and points powered frogs, i use 2 LEDs (and 2 series resistors) connected between the frog and opposite rails.

the LEDs indicate turnout alignment as well as if the frog is powered

i use very thin 30g wire that i bury in a slit cut into the foam and just "shove" the LEDs in a hole on the edge of the foam melted with a soldering iron


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