# DCC Malfunction Junction



## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

I got my DigiTrax Zephyr control out, DCS 52, read the books to familiarize myself with the box and the hookups, etc. I also did the decoder swap in all 3 locos, pieces of cake (or is it pie ? ) anyways, went to program them, first was the Kato E5A. The only thing I have working is the headlight on and off, not sure about the CV stuff, using the 4 number address BTW. I set it aside for a moment to program one of the SD70ACe units, cab number as the address, no problem, even forward and back on a "test main" track. I put the DC board back in the E5A and it ran fine on the layout which is still DC so no problem with it able to run. RE-installed the DCC in it and again nothing but the headlight on and off. Yes the pickup rails in the loco have been insulated with the tape in the spot it called for in the instructions. New to all this, any ideas on what I'm missing or what the CV settings should be ?? Any assistance with this would be greatly appreciated, my son was ragging on me earlier about "my stuff not working" 🤨, yeah flipped him off LOL (I'll remind him next time he needs help working on his 54 Caddy 😁

Oh and I took a look in the DCC thread, stuff in there is so old I didn't want to stir up the dust in there, besides, the equipment here is all new released stuff and doubt it would pertain to the ancient archives


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

The headlights only working usually means the decoder to motor contacts are not making a good connection. I would check the connections if it still doesn't work reset the decoder. Try running the loco on address #3 first. If that doesn't work it's probably the decoder.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Thanks Jim, right there could be a problem, the installation instructions say to use kapton tape to insulate the motor feed tabs (or whatever they are called). To double check myself I re-installed the Kato DC board and ran it on the layout but installing the DCC board again no joy.

As it is now I'm one for three, one SD70 is up and running on the DCC test track (not the program track) BUT the other SD70 isn't even being seen by the controller, says "track is empty" on program track. At the moment the DC board is back on it and it runs on the layout (still DC for the time being). Once I finger this mess out it'll be ok but at the moment I'm not liking this technology too much, lunch time then back to this 😶


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I got my DigiTrax Zephyr control out, DCS 52, read the books to familiarize myself with the box and the hookups, etc. I also did the decoder swap in all 3 locos, pieces of cake (or is it pie ? ) anyways, went to program them, first was the Kato E5A. The only thing I have working is the headlight on and off, not sure about the CV stuff, using the 4 number address BTW. I set it aside for a moment to program one of the SD70ACe units, cab number as the address, no problem, even forward and back on a "test main" track. I put the DC board back in the E5A and it ran fine on the layout which is still DC so no problem with it able to run. RE-installed the DCC in it and again nothing but the headlight on and off. Yes the pickup rails in the loco have been insulated with the tape in the spot it called for in the instructions. New to all this, any ideas on what I'm missing or what the CV settings should be ?? Any assistance with this would be greatly appreciated, my son was ragging on me earlier about "my stuff not working" 🤨, yeah flipped him off LOL (I'll remind him next time he needs help working on his 54 Caddy 😁
> 
> Oh and I took a look in the DCC thread, stuff in there is so old I didn't want to stir up the dust in there, besides, the equipment here is all new released stuff and doubt it would pertain to the ancient archives


Wooky_Choo_Bacca;

I don't really know the answer to your question, but my guess would be that the DCC decoder is not outputting DC voltage to the motor. Think of what you do have working. The motor, and the mechanism, work because it runs OK on DC power. The DCC controller and at least the headlight part of the decoder work because you can turn the light on and off. Have you checked the motor output wires from the decoder with a multimeter, to see if there is any DC voltage coming out? This should be checked both with the motor disconnected from those wires, and with the motor connected. If you get voltage without the motor, but not with it, you may have a short . That's not likely since the operation on DC track still goes through the decoder to the motor. That's the extent of my very limited knowledge and, as I said, only a guess. I do suggest you post your question on the DCC forum. More DCC experts are likely to find it there than here on the N-scale forum, which mostly attracts nobody but us N-scalers. Besides you'll be updating the DCC forum with a new post! 😄 

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

There are no wires, it's just a PC board that fits to the top of the loco frame in place of the DC board


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

I have had trouble with some Kato locos, the motor contract just don't make contact. If you get to much tape on the contact strip it will keep the motor contacts from making contact with the decoder. Also they need to be nice and clean, I use Crag DeoxIT on all my loco contacts. I even have one Kato loco were I had to use wires solder to the contacts in order to make it work. Really good instructions with pictures for the Kato E5. | Train Control Systems (tcsdcc.com)


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Do you normally tape motor leads to decoders?


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

No, never tape the motor leads to the decoder. The tape goes on the pickup rails so the motor leads don't contact them and short out.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

rrjim1 said:


> I have had trouble with some Kato locos, the motor contract just don't make contact. If you get to much tape on the contact strip it will keep the motor contacts from making contact with the decoder. Also they need to be nice and clean, I use Crag DeoxIT on all my loco contacts. I even have one Kato loco were I had to use wires solder to the contacts in order to make it work. Really good instructions with pictures for the Kato E5. | Train Control Systems (tcsdcc.com)


Poking around I watched a video, Mike Fifer soldering wires on an E5A (same as mine) for a DN163K0E (same as mine), so, gathering the needed stuff for an "operation". I already taped the rails so that part is done already and I'll say the astronaut prayer before starting the soldering (prayer is "please Lord, don't let me screw this up")


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Tried once again swapping out decoders, no joy. Digitrax responded and decoder is on the way to them for repair / replacement.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Well Hell, decoder got back from Digitrax today, put it in the loco . . . . NUTHING 😐, swapped it over to the other loco, again NUTHING shows "program track empty" (DCS 52) NOW I go into train room and put the known good one one the new double track with the E5A and the good one NUTHING, E5A running, even swapped tracks and E5A took off running so it's not the track or controller. The pair are Kato EMD SD70ACe's which came analog, could it be that I got the wrong decoders (I hope not) even though these were one of a few listed, DN163K1C


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Yes, they are the correct DCC board for a sd70ace. Check the board contacts to frame connections. They need to be a solid tight connection. You might have to add solder to build up the pads. If the lights work then it has to be the motor connections, make sure they are clean and make sure they are bent out to make a good connection with the dcc board contacts.


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Well Hell, decoder got back from Digitrax today, put it in the loco . . . . NUTHING 😐, swapped it over to the other loco, again NUTHING shows "program track empty" (DCS 52) NOW I go into train room and put the known good one one the new double track with the E5A and the good one NUTHING, E5A running, even swapped tracks and E5A took off running so it's not the track or controller. The pair are Kato EMD SD70ACe's which came analog, could it be that I got the wrong decoders (I hope not) even though these were one of a few listed, DN163K1C


That is the right decoder for the locomotive so I do not know what is going on with it. Could you take pics of your install?? Someone may see something you do not.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

rrjim1 said:


> Yes, they are the correct DCC board for a sd70ace. Check the board contacts to frame connections. They need to be a solid tight connection. You might have to add solder to build up the pads. If the lights work then it has to be the motor connections, make sure they are clean and make sure they are bent out to make a good connection with the dcc board contacts.


Thanks Jim, I was looking with a magnifier and noticed also that the underside motor connector blades on the sides look to be lacking in solder. The only contact point I see is at the front, I'll put a dot of solder up there


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

bewhole said:


> That is the right decoder for the locomotive so I do not know what is going on with it. Could you take pics of your install?? Someone may see something you do not.


Sure here are both


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Sure here are both
> View attachment 550708
> 
> 
> View attachment 550709


Ok from what I can see on the front "Neck" where it looks like it is bent down it looks like it is touching the frame just before the "Square" part on the front. The chip says 189 on it right there. If so put some tape there and see if that helps. ( I could be wrong I have been known to be)


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

bewhole said:


> Ok from what I can see on the front "Neck" where it looks like it is bent down it looks like it is touching the frame just before the "Square" part on the front. The chip says 189 on it right there. If so put some tape there and see if that helps. ( I could be wrong I have been known to be)


OK, on the right (front), the little step up in the frame where the board goes between towards the left (rear) ?


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> OK, on the right (front), the little step up in the frame where the board goes between towards the left (rear) ?


It is on the right side of the pics yes.(Is that the front or the back) anyways the end with the two copper coils on it.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Neither are recognized now, "Program Track Empty"


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Neither are recognized now, "Program Track Empty"


That is strange that it is doing that. This is the pic that I got from there web site with the same frame only less tape. So I do not what to tell you now.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

The decoder that I just got back from Digitrax did the same thing as why I sent it, Program Track Empty. I'd hate to buy another and have the same problem warranty or not. New to this DCC stuff and don't know if another outfit would have a better board that would work with the DCS 52

Yeah, saw that pic too and instruction said to tape in 3 spots, which I did


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Ok I just found this(Another long shot). This is from a different manufacturer but for the same loco. same setup too. Here it shows a better setup more pics then what the Digitrax site shows. I do not know if it will help but.....





| Train Control Systems







tcsdcc.com


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Yeah, watched him before and watching again while retaping the frame, Thanks


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Yeah, watched him before and watching again while retaping the frame, Thanks


Did you try the foam trick they had on the site??


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

No, I didn't see that one


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Ok, I got one up and running on track. Up under the front edge of the decoder there is a small plastic square that is part of the loco with a ridge on one side that fits in the frame, on the other side is a little tit that is fitting into a corresponding hole in the decoder board. Lets see can I get the other one programmed and running

BRB yall


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

WOOO HOOO, yeah it's after lunch today after a sorta late night last night working on locos. Thanks bewhole on the heads up about the foam trick, I did that with the troublesome board using a piece of the thick density foam that came in the loco case, mounted the board and then wedged the foam under the front edge, programmed and tested then let it set overnight. Runs as it should. The other loco still runs but I'll foam it before long just to ensure it stays operational. I think we can close this case. Again, Thanks to bewhole, rrjim, MichaelE, and traction fan for the help, suggestions, and moral support in this new to me technology


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

repeat


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