# UK Locos on US rails



## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

I’ve always liked the look of the UK Class A1/A3 locos (of which the famous Flying Scotsman is one) and the Coronation Class. I’ve recently learned that some of these locos were celebrities, both at home and abroad, and traveled the world on publicity tours.

I learned from the video linked below that the Coronation Class “Duchess of Hamilton” toured the US in 1939. I doubt it would have passed through the little hamlet in the southern Blue Ridge represented on my layout, but what the heck!






LMS, Princess Coronation Class, 4-6-2, 6229 'Duchess of Hamilton' - Era 3


Built at Crewe in 1938 as the last of the streamlined 'Coronations', Duchess of Hamilton entered service on September 10th. At the same time, the LMSR had accepted an invitation from the organizers of the World's Fair in New York to send a streamlined train out to the exposition. As the newest...




www.hornby.com





I would rather it had been the Flying Scotsman, since I have Scots heritage, but it didn’t tour the US & Canada until 1969-70. C’est la vie.

I would rather the Duchess had been in “smoke deflector” configuration instead of “streamlined”, but streamlined it was in 1939.









https://www.1939nyworldsfair.com/worlds_fair/wf_tour/Zone-6/trains_of_the_day_3.htm











LMS(R) steam locomotive with tender 'Duchess of Hamilton' 4-6-2 Coronation class, No 6229, 1938 | Science Museum Group Collection


Steam locomotive and tender, No 46229 'Duchess of Hamilton', 8P Coronation class, 4-6-2, London Midland & Scottish Railway, designed by William Stanier, built at Crewe in 1938. Length over buffers: 73' 10 1/4"; width 9' 3"; height 12' 9'; weight: 105 tons; 5 cwt; driving wheel diameter 6 feet, 9...




collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk













LMS Princess Coronation Class 6229 Duchess of Hamilton - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

The Royal Scot visited North America for the 1933 World's Fair, elephant ears and all. She had a pilot, headlight and a bell fitted for the trip as per regs.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks Far wud.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Cool. Very cool. I would love to have a good model of the flying Scotsman on my layout, as well as as Gresley A3 Pacific and, of course, the A4 Mallard.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Hatton's has several models you might be interested in:

Hattons Originals O Class A3 4-6-2


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

The EMD "Class 66" type used to be built here in Canada at the former GM plant in London, ON. It was always neat to catch special moves of export locomotives from the plant while it was still in operation.



http://vanderheide.ca/images/IMG_0284.JPG



Quite the size difference in height/profile compared to the North American units.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

LMS coaches arrived today. The "Duchess" is supposed to make it across the pond by Groundhog Day.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Very nice Stumpy. Great looking coaches.


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Don't forget to break the flags out... 









Photo: https://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=185154


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Firewood said:


> Don't forget to break the flags out...


Great pic! Thanks. 

Looks like the coaches I got are pretty close.

Also, that Railway Express truck in the background, left... The Jordan kit's instructions said to paint the roof white. I should have.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Looks like that should be an easy fix.....


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

They did a nice job of fitting the streamlined headlight. Do you have plans to add the headlight and bell? 
More pics: 





Rail Album - LMS Steam Locos - Streamlined Princess Coronation Class Pacifics - Part 2


Rail Album - LMS Steam Locos - William Stanier's Streamlined Princess Coronation Class Pacific Locomotives and the 'Coronation Scot' Train - Photographs, Diagrams and Words - Part 2



www.railalbum.co.uk


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Well... I _hadn't_ thought of it...


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

The Duchess arrived today, ahead of shed-jewel.

Some add-on details including a complete extra front bogie with a coupler and a spare wheelset for the tender(?).


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

But there is 😕 

I knew when that screw fell out of the box it wasn't good.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Looks good tho.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Stumpy said:


> But there is 😕
> 
> I knew when that screw fell out of the box it wasn't good.
> 
> View attachment 553239


Should be an easy fix....but it shouldn’t have been broken new out of the box.....

It is a nice looking locomotive though....


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Hornby makes some nice stuff! Here is my new “Railroad Series” Mallard.....


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Nice!

I'm still going to get an F'n Scotsman and a Ma-Llard.

I need to "acquire more right-of-way".


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Nice equipment Stumpy. The Brits certainly have a different design on some of their locomotives.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Before this thread ages into oblivion, I have a question that might be a little on the stupid side. My son built a Lego model of a Swiss Crocodile locomotive (in addition to the N gauge layout we are working on together, he has a Lego city and layout he is working on a lot). I was thinking I might surprise him soon and found a N gauge German Crocodile loco (found the Swiss one in HO but gold plated and a list price of $1,500 - out of my price range even if it were the right size). 

So, my question is what do I need to run that on my layout besides some European cars for it. I am assuming that the couplers are different and I would need matching couplers to form a train, right? The loco is already DCC and I am assuming the standards for that work the same too. But other than possibly looking out of place on my layout with all the American transition era stuff, is there anything else that would be needed to make it work?

Sorry for tagging onto this thread, but I figured it was sort of related and you would know, even if the gauges and countries were different.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You should need nothing else. European equipment runs quite nicely on American layouts. I can't tell you anything about coupler compatibility in N scale. I have HO/HOm.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> You should need nothing else. European equipment runs quite nicely on American layouts. I can't tell you anything about coupler compatibility in N scale. I have HO/HOm.


Thanks. I have decided to avoid the coupler question by getting him some German cars to go with the loco.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Why are UK freight cars (wagons) of "Era 3" (1923-1947) so short? 

Passenger cars range from 40'-63', yet the freight wagons are little stubby things?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You'd have to ask here, as I know nothing about British Rail.

RMweb


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

This is what I could find with a real quick search.....if more time was spent searching, I would imagine a better answer could be found....but I believe it’s due to the lower per axle tonnage rating in Britain.....they could only have smaller/shorter cars because of that.....



> The rolling stock differed on either side of the Atlantic, too: although British goods wagons, including hopper, tank, and freight cars, chiefly retained nineteenth-century short four-wheeled form well into the 1970s (and some are still in use), the four-wheeler died out in Americas well before the twentieth century. Again, relatively inferior trackage led to engineering innovation: Americans found themselves forced to develop swivelling wheel sets (freight trucks) that could better navigate curves and changing grades, and also spread the weight out over the extra axles.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

But... the passenger cars had two-axle trucks, so it's not like they weren't aware of that "engineering innovation" in the UK. While I've never been to the UK, I'm guessing there are curves and grades there also.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I think the passenger cars had 2 axle trucks because they gave a smoother ride to the travellers, and unlike North America, rail operations in the UK were always concentrated on passenger traffic, not freight.....

As for curves and grades......they built their railways with a minimum of grades, whereas N. America had to conquer large mountain ranges, and had to have bigger grades.....


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

City of Edinburgh

The second loco from across the pond arrived today.










Also with loose parts.









Where it's supposed to be. No biggie, I'll glue it back on. 













































Overall pretty nice details. 

I don't know if you can tell in the last pic, but that rear bogie isn't. It's just for looks. It's rigid and rides ever so slightly above the rails... and the wheels don't have flanges.

Now the decoder just needs to get here.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Very nice Stumpy! I can't wait to see a video of it on your layout.

That locomotive is beautiful.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> The Duchess arrived today,
> 
> But there is 😕


Well, Amazon UK allowed me $20 for shipping back across the pond. It was going to cost ~ $55, which means the price of the loco just went up $35. So I decided to fix it. (Still have until March 4 to return it if it doesn't work out.) 

Looks rough on the bottom. But I wasn't worried about pretty. I wanted plenty of CA on it, but not in the screw hole.











On the top side: I cut a piece of styrene (with a hole just a skosh bigger than the screw hole) to span/cover the entire area for reinforcement. My hope is that I don't have to glue the screw in.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

What happened? I missed the part where you explained the problem!


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

It arrived less than pristine, Michael.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That sucks. I hope they QC'd this before it left and the gorillas at Royal Mail were the responsible ones.

Was it packed well?


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

It was packed well. No damage to the shipping box or the product packaging. The way the Hornby models are packaged, I don't see how it could have happened in the box... unless the box was destroyed... or dropped from ten stories up.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

PIKO, TRIX, and Roco use that same type of packaging. Clam-shell opening for the plastic surround. Impossible for the model to move in there.


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Stumpy said:


> Why are UK freight cars (wagons) of "Era 3" (1923-1947) so short?
> 
> Passenger cars range from 40'-63', yet the freight wagons are little stubby things?
> A lot of the coal mines and mineral quarries developed during the horse-drawn period before steam. The coal and similar wagons evolved from those early horse-powered mines. The space was limited and the clearances smaller than North America. A loaded 40ft boxcar probably would have demolished some of those lighter British branch lines.
> For decades British freight wagons were only manually braked with levers and retaining pins. The larger cars and passenger coaches had vacuum brakes. British Railway Goods Rolling Stock Design Introduction


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

The decoders arrived for the Duchess and the CoE.

The Duchess continues to be a PITA. The "hanger" for the front bogie is bent so the wheels do not sit on the rails (remember the invisible dog leash?), so I have to take the assembly off and get out the sledge hammer.

🤬


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Turns out the hanger wasn't woppy-jaw'd. It wasn't skroo'd in. Made in China.

Still needed a little adjustment tho.

Now I have to do the PECO turnout mod to EVERY turnout on the layout. 

Here's a vid of her majesty not having to traverse any turnouts. Sound is good, I think.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

It does sound good. Doesn't anyone besides the Germans and Austrians make anything in their own countries anymore??? Jeez.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

MichaelE said:


> Doesn't anyone besides the Germans and Austrians make anything in their own countries anymore??? Jeez.


"Global econony", dude.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

To me, "Global Economy" is countries buying from one another. Not everyone buying from China.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Agree. 

Couldn't find the /sarcasm emoticon so I went with eyeroll.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> To me, "Global Economy" is countries buying from one another. Not everyone buying from China.


Tell that to the big companies that are looking purely for cheap labour.....guess where the cheap labour is.....


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

And the most profit at the expence of quality. Some still want to maintain a reputation of quality that has been 70 or 80 years in the making.

Where they can still look over a worker's shoulder and see assembly being done correctly according to strict quality standards of their company.

Some companies still think you should get what you pay for and that doesn't mean repeated warranty service.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Hornby loco #3.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

First pic is the inside of the cab of the Duchess. Second pic is the CoTN.



















Wikipedia says...

*



Modelling

Click to expand...

*


> In 2013, Hornby Railways collaborated with the A1 locomotive trust to produce models of the class, starting with the original P2 2001 _Cock O' The North_, for release in early 2014 in both a low level "Hornby Railroad" specification, and a more detailed version then including a third level of the model with Hornby Railways new Twin Track Sound (TTS).


Guess mine is Hornby Railroad.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Ordered the loco "with DCC/Sound".

"With" = decoder was also in the box.



















Supposing I could get the PCB in the cab (red rectangle)...










I'll still need a wire stretcher to get the speaker in the tender.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)




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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's some nice cab detail.


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## EMD_GP9 (Jun 19, 2012)

Hi all.
Your photos of the Duchesses reminded me of two accidents involving these locos about a mile from where I live!
In fact I could almost see the site of one of the crashes on my walk this morning except for the mist across the valley to where it happened. This is the East coast main line from London to Edinburgh.

On 21st June 1947 a streamlined "King George VI " 6244 was running north at 65-70 mph when it derailed killing 5 passengers. The report blamed old track fixings which came loose from the sleepers ( ties) and caused the gauge to widen.

A second accident occurred on 19th November 1951 when City of Leicester 46255 went onto it's side at Polesworth Station.









The report blamed the driver missing signals and excessive speed. There were no fatalities.
My Father was an amateur photographer at the time and took some photos of the crash which we still have.

These locos were common on the East coast main line and I remember as a boy reading about the Turbine powered version ( Turbomotive) and assumed that they were all turbine powered but after a walk to the bridge up the road and a short wait one came past with normal running gear so killed that assumption.

The "Cock of the North" also has an association but these locos ran from Edinburgh to Aberdeen in Scotland so I never saw them. Sir Nigel Gresley the designer is buried about 6 miles away and I often cycle past his burial site in Netherseal in Derbyshire.

Sorry to introduce a morbid note but I thought that you may find it interesting.

Regards, Colin.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Nothing morbid about a famous person passing away and being buried somewhere.....there’s no denying that it’ll happen to the best of us...... 😉 

Thanks for the interesting history!


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Yes, thank you Colin.


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