# Construction Begins



## Massey

OK guys construction started today. I have over half of the benchwork done now leaving mainly only the west yard left to construct. Check out the pics and enjoy.

Here i set up my cutting bench.









Here is the pile of scrap that is going to become the new layout. This used to be parts of a 5x9 semi portable layout I built back in VA.









South end of the layout. 









North end.









West end. 


















Here is the removable bridge.









Now many of you have been wondering how I was going to design the mounting and alignment system for the lift out section. Well here ya go.
South mounting location


















North mounting location


















And last but not least I wired in the power for the layout.









I hope you all like it. Stay tuned for tomorrow's updates. My goal for tomorrow is to build the east yard and have the OSB on the top of the benchwork by the end of the day.

Massey


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## T-Man

I was wondering, are you planning on storing the "lift out" section in an "out of the way" place"?


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## Massey

I have a shelf on the east side of the shed that will be the "home away from home" for the lift out section. Here is a pic of it. kinda... The shelf is at the very top of the photo. This is an old pic of the shed taken right after I started working on it.










Massey


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## tjcruiser

Massey,

Construction looks great. One minor word of caution ... 

When making small cleats (as in pics #10, 11) with a soft wood like pine or fir, the wood is rather prone to splitting in way of where you have fasteners. I assume you're pre-drilling, but even with that, any tightening pressure on the screw could prompt the wood to split with the grain in way of the hole. Use caution here, or, better yet, make the cleats out of plywood, which will be much less prone to splitting.

TJ


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## NIMT

Massey,
Great going so far. My word of caution comes from the hammers on the peg board over the layout....Been there done that! First time you oops and knock or drop one of those babies onto the layout table you'll be sorry!


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## Massey

TJ I know exactly what you are talking about and those are not the first cleats that were placed... These are just the ones that didn't split or didn't split beyond what I could use. 

NIMT the hammers may not stay for that very reason. The pegs I have them attached with are more prone to falling out when I lift the hammers. The pegs could do enough damage to a train to make me think 2x about it. Most of the rest of that stuff is going to be moved as the layout is being built and as I find better places for it all. OH and a little OT but, Vixen looks much better and I am glad to hear that she is doing well. I love wolves, I used to feed a curious wild wolf some fish I used to catch in a stream by my house. He would not take the fish from my hand but he would let me scratch his head a couple of scratches before grabbing the fish and running away to eat it.

Thanks for the inputs.

Massey


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## Massey

East side yard is up on the wall and wouldn't you know it my camera batteries are dead!! I am going out later to the store so I will get some more then. All is well all and all, I am going to start on the housing for the DCC equips and the table tops here soon. I promise more pics soon!! Darned batteries!

Massey

P.S. Murphy your mom wants you to go home!


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## norgale

Lookin' great Massey. Won't be any time at all before your running your trains again. Pete


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## Massey

Well the pics will have to wait for the morning. Camera batteries died and I was not able to get to a store to get more. I didn't get as much done as I wanted but I did get good stuff done. East side yard is framed. and about 5 inches higher than the rest of the layout. I also got a good start on building the equipment cabinet for all the DCC gear, a power manager, fan for the command station and there will be a light for easy viewing once I get the cabinet finished. The cabinet will hang under the northern most part of the layout near the edge. The power strip is where I am going to pull power for the cabinet at. (see pic above) 



Pics tomorrow I promise.



Massey


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Massey...the layout looks GREAT so far! It is looking exactly like your plan! I like the design of your lift out section...very simple and effective! Keep up the great work!

Chad


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## Massey

Ok got the batteries and snapped a couple of pics of the new additions. I just about finished the electronics cabinet but I will wait on new photos of that until it is finished. Enjoy and hopefully tomorrow I can get some real progress done before I go to work!


East yard area. This is about 5" higher than the rest of the layout. This will have the control cabinet under the northern most section and there will be a bridge between here and the rest of the layout as well.









A view of the shelf that is going to store the lift out section when not in use.










Here is the layout of the gear for the control cabinet. It is a Digitrax DB100, a fan to keep it cool (I have had overheating problems before and this little fan solves the problems easy. A power strip for the equipment, a PM42 set up with 3 power districts and one reversing section, a terminal strip for the output to the rails. and the power supply for the DB100. This will have a top to it that will also have a small light to assist me in any maintenance I may need to do.










I hope you all like and enjoy.

Massey


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## jonyb

Good work Massey.... Can't wait to see it completed.


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## tjcruiser

Nice, clean work on the electronic equipment board layout ... fan and all!

TJ


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Massey...GREAT effort so far...you have done a lot in a short amount of time, and it is looking really nice!

Chad


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## norgale

Hey wait! Is that Sidney Star done yet? How many projects do you have in the pot anyway? By the way I hope you can do a step by step of the DCC installation for those of us who are DCC illiterate. I know I'de appreciate it for one.
Lookin' good there Massey. You'll be running the trains in no time. pete


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## NIMT

Massey, Here is another cooling fan Idea.


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## norgale

NIMT that's a super web site and I wrote to Dave to say hello. Thanks for posting the link as that's the kind of life I live in my dreams while I'm stuck down here in Florida. . Love the site and looking forward to more pics from Dave and the dogs. . Pete


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## Massey

The Sydney Star is built enough to sail but the details are not done yet. It is one of my favorites to sail actually. Check out Ghost's Sydney Star thread on R/C Groups to see some pics I posted on her sea trials. I promosed my wife that I would limit my hobby spending and also the scope of my hobbies until we can put ourselves in a better financial place. We are only making about 1/2 what we did when we were both in the Navy. I choose the trains because I can build a layout with minimal funds and enjoy it all year round. The Boats are a seasonal thing here and almost all the boat projects I have right now require a heafty $$$ investment just to continue the builds. So Trains it is!! Right now I have only spent about $60 on new materials for this layout. The rest of the materials were stuff that was scrapped from another layout I built years ago. 

Massey


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## norgale

Guess we all know how the spending can catch up to you. That's why I'm doing trains now too. The boats are fun and all but they do get pricy when you start dealing with the RC and power stuff.All my train stuff I've had since back in the seventies and the rest of the layout was made from stuff laying around the shop or out in the street.


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## Massey

OK after I got off work I pulled out the saw and cut up some more wood to almost finish up the bench work. Just a couple more little things until the bench work is done. Here are a couple of pics I took just as I finished up tonight's work. I hope you enjoy.
































































Massey


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Everything is looking solid and neat there, Massey! It should be a fun model RR to operate when it is done! It is fun to follow your progress!

Chad


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## Massey

Thanks for the vote of encouragement! More coming tomorrow I hope.

Massey


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## Massey

Well I didnt get as much as I wanted done but I did get some track laid and so far so good. I found that I need more right hand #4 turnouts that I own so it will be off to the hobby store for me soon. I have enough left hands but not rights. I also made a slight modification to the west end of the tracks to prevent the mainline from going through the switch, now to get to the station you go through the switch and also the spur to the station was removed due to lack of space. I think this flows much better now. You can see the change in the pics. Well enjoy the pics and I will work on posting more tomorrow.



















Massey


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## Massey

Well I got the mainline laid down and my test cars run the loop with no issues and I can push them through the switches and corners at high speed with no derailments.  I ran out of cork roadbed so it is off to the train store tomorrow to buy some more so I can finish up. As you can also see I got the ramp for the yard mounted and it turned out to be about a 2.5% grade. That should not be any problem for any of my engines to climb with 5 or 6 cars. Most of the grade is going to be hidden in a tunnel and the bridge is going to prolly be a concrete arch bridge similar to what I made before. Well Enjoy the pics and as always comments and questions are welcome.









































































In the last pic you can really see the changes I made to the track plan. Looks like it is all for the better.

Massey


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## NIMT

Massey,
Is the wood ramp in the back ground the grade? Looks a lot steeper than 2.5%???
What's the rise and length?


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## Massey

It does look steeper but I am lifting the trains 5" over an 8' run minus a few inches for the transitions it comes out to about 2.5% Just going up 5" in 96" is 1.9% if I am doing my math right. EIther way I have had a 4% grade on a layout before and very few issues on engines climbing that grade either. I unfortunatly dont have the room to build a nice long 70+ car coal drag even tho I own enough RD4 coal hoppers to make the train up. How fun that would be!!

Massey


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## NIMT

Sorry,
Yep math failure!
Grade chart.
http://www.awrr.com/table4.html
Your twice as steep as what you think you are.


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## Massey

OOPS!!!

I think I will try to spread this out over a few more inches and see what I can do... 

I hate dyslexia...

Massey


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## NIMT

It's not meant as a knock! I've done the same thing myself! Understand the space restraints too! We always want more!


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## Massey

I didnt take it as such but I do really have dyslexia possibly asberger's syndrone, which dyslexia is part of. I have not been in for formal testing but the informal testing shows a 90% likely hood... so me making mistakes like this happens all the time! I have learned a few things that help my reading, I am really good at math when I dont get the formulas backwards!! OH well I know where I can rob afew inches of incline to maybe strech it out to almost 9 feet and that will help put it about 4.5% ish. I am going to get some foam tomorrow to build the grade out of

Massey


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## tjcruiser

Good grade/slope catch, Sean. Massey ... no "grade" skipping for you! 

Hey ... great looking (and large!) train station in Post 24. That's going to be a real showpiece on the layout.

TJ


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## mr_x_ite_ment

My math tells me that the layout is looking GREAT, Massey! Keep it up!

Chad


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## Massey

I hope it turns out good but I am worried that it may be too big of a model and in the wrong place. I have 2 other stations both smaller and may be better suited for the location. This area could also serve an industry that would be better suited to a small layout that does not have a destination for passenger trains. I have also been thinking that a passenger train or light rail car could start out at the east side yard and run the loop to the station, wait a few to load passengers and then run around to the wye and turn the train around and go back up to the yard. That is my original plan. 

Now I am thinking that I could put an industry there that has a short delivery time (like a LP gas station) that I could drop the car off in the morning and pick it back up in the after noon ever couple of days. When the car is not sitting on the tracks being unloaded the siding there could be a passing siding or a place to set cars out of the way while switching the industries on each end of the spurs. I have not decided how I am going to manage that yet but for now the station is there and the ends will be a town to the north and I am thinking about a small saw mill in the south. That mill will supply wood chips to the east yard for interchange and lumber to the barrel factory in the north end of town, some lumber to the yard as well. That is the plan for that part of the layout. I am thinking that there will be deliveries to the stores in the town from the yard and an industry that will need an empty delivery say once a day. IT will provide a little variety and some switching for 2 or 3 people.

Massey


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## Massey

I started on the daunting task of wiring today. I didnt get much done but I got a few of the wires ran to where the feeder drops are going to be. Hopefully tomorrow I will get the rest of the bus wires run and then drop a couple of feeders. I was able to also cut the rails of the lift out section and make that removable again. My test cars run over the gaps just fine with a little clack sound but nothing serious.

Massey


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## Massey

Big day for my layout. I finished wiring the mainline and I was able to run a train under its own power. Right now I have the main line on one district, the removable section on another and when the removable section is not plugged into the layout the train will stop well before the drop off. I will try to post some video tomorrow.




























Massey


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## norgale

Yippeeeee! Way to go Massey. It's more fun when the trains run. Pete


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Hey Massey...glad to hear the initial test runs have gone all right! It is looking great! It is always nice to get to a point where you can test run trains!

Chad


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## Massey

OK I got all the track laid now and for the most part everything is great... almost.

I miscalculated one little part of the layout and now I need to revisit it to fix a too sharp curve. I had to go to bed before I could make the changes but I think that the changes I am going to make will allow for an 18" curve and all will be happy in South Massey. For the bridge I kitbashed an Altlas steel bridge kit and it fits great, I am happy with the outcome. and I also dug up my structures kits and stuff from storage. I forgot all the cool stuff I have and I have been working on getting an idea of were everything is going to be placed. The large station building is going back in storage and I am going to use a smaller station that I think fits the area better, I made changes to the corner between the station area and the town area and now they are more like one scene rather than seperate scenes. I do have pics of all this I promise I just didnt have time to process them and post them yesterday.

I tested a GP38-2 on the incline with 7 cars in tow and it made the almost 5% climb with no slippage and only a little stress. I will not be making the climb with more than 4 or 5 cars at a time when operations start so this should be just fine. The GP can make the 13" radii at the end of the bridge and most of the cars can also handle the curve but I have a flat that cant, and I know the 6 axle engines will be having problems too. This is another reason for the radii change. 

When I get around to painting them I am going to have a couple of engines for the SMRY. A SD45, 2 GP35s and a NW2 are all planned for the railroad. That will be on top of the couple of engines that will be leased from BNSF, CSX and of course NS. I am hoping to add a KCS SD70ACe to my collection here soon too. 

Well enough of an update I will post some pics when I get off work today and you can see what I am talking about in this post.

Massey


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## trainguru

*Autistic model railroader's, are model railroaders too!*

Power to Autism Spectrum peep's! Trains are my narrow focus, but my parents helped me be apart of the rest of life. They helped me build my skills, I thrive in gen. ed. classes, but trains always are that little refuge to snap me back to Earth! - 

Nice to know there are people out there like me! They even had one like us, who's also asperger's syndrom, and who's narrow focus is trains (GWR/British steam is one of the kid's favorites) on Aurthr. -  Oddly enough, his name is Carl (an ancestor of mine's name, who was an engineer on the NP!). I may drive my parents up the wall with the trains, but they understand! Sorry about the website ribbing Massey! - 

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
"Ayeeeee!" says the Fonz


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## Massey

It is all good. I do have a somewhat narrow focus at times... Ok well most of the time. It is in building models. Not just trains but trains are my favorite. I also like to build R/C ships and tugs. Trains I can do all year round in WA the boats are a summer only thing. I am also really good at fixing things... Just about anything really. I am no so good at coming up with an idea on something to build but if I have plans in front of me I can usually put it together. Socially... yea not my best area. Most people dont like me when they first meet me, but if they hang around long enough they will find that I have a big heart and I am not what I seem at first. I dont know what I do, I cant see it, but there is something there that does it. Part of the out of the element condition that goes with asbergers. Now if some one comes into the Part store I work on I can mingle and talk to them for a while and we get along just fine. I am in my element with cars and fixing things... I guess that is back to the narrow focus stuff again. I cant say I have asbergers for certain I was only given a preliminary test by a councelor who was not able to give an official diagnostic but she said I fit the condition by her estimate at about 90% which is a positive for the syndrome. Since I dont have medical coverage I have not felt the desire to drop a few hard earned benjimans on the official diagnosis, since it will not really change much about me at the current time. I have learned how to deal with the learning issues, I am a little clumsy in sports so I simply dont play any and socially I really could care less, most of the people that I call a friend know who I really am and that is what matters to me.

Massey

P.S. sorry about the non train post.


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## raleets

Massey,
Just curious.....did you recently buy that big depot on eBay? I was bidding on one that was like that but got beat out. It's a beauty!
Bob


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## raleets

Massey,
False alarm....I've just answered my own question. The one I was looking at was much smaller than yours. 
Yours is cool and will be neat on your layout. Just my opinion, but I think I would try to find a spot that gives it more attention since it's such a cool building.
Bob


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## Massey

I think that depot will have to wait for a larger layout or a module. I bought that back when I was stationed in FL for the second time. It was just released and all the stores in my area wanted like $70 for it and the store I found in Pensacola only wanted $25 so I jumped on it. I have yet to find a home on my layouts for it tho.  It looks better in person, for some odd reason I cant get a camera to pick up the mortor job I did on it.

Massey


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## trainguru

*HO Merchant Navy!*

Massey, how hard would it be to build a 1/87, 1/80 or 1/76 (between HO & OO scale) railroad car ferry (Like the Great Lakes ones, British cross channel, or the last SS Alaska), or passenger ships (like the TEV Princess Marguerite, MV Vancouver Island Princess, PS Waverly, SS Tacoma, TSS Duke of Lancaster or MV Kalakala), that's durable, R/C powered, and makes connection to a railroad at an "ocean terminal" ? I've always wanted to do that for my pike (even though it's been packed for the 2nd time!).


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## Massey

If you are talking just a static model then it is pretty easy, not much harder than any other scratch built structure. Now if you want it to function in R/C or other control method and be seaworthy then you are talking some skills. Try a website called RCGroups. and then find the boat section. There is alot of highly skilled modelers there that may be able to steer you in the right direction. Look up a modeler named Umi (last name starts with R, after an anime character). She has built a model of a Washington State Ferry and it is the best I have ever seen. She is a professional model builder. There are many others that are highly skilled there too. Norgale is also a member on that forum. 

Massey


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## Massey

*Golden Spike!*

I finally finished the track work of my layout today. I laid the golden spike today after work at about 3:15 and I finished wiring the feeders at about 3:25. I have some more minor wiring to do but everything works great, I trip the breaker anywhere on the layout and all is well. I didnt get around to getting any pics but dont worry they are on the way. I had modify the bridge again and the 2 pieces I kitbashed had to come off.  maybe next time I can use them. I will soon start on the scenery and finish up with installing the UP5 panels and the switch for the programing track.

Massey


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## tjcruiser

Massey,

Congratulations! What an exciting moment. Glad to hear all is coming along so nicely.

TJ


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## trainguru

You lucky man, I'm still waiting to build my third or fourth pike, and it's still in the holding stage!  But you've waited longer than my lifespan (more or less), so you deserve it! Just remember Trainworld, and some nine pin's for the DCC ready Mantua Classic Steamer's (though knowing my tech track record; a big mess, the only thing I could handel is DC cab, and the imortal question "Who has my bloody train???!!!" Sorry to Queen Elizabeth's countries for the b-bomb if it's profanity!


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## gc53dfgc

Guru,

Is a pike basically a layout where you are from?

Massey,

The layout is coming along nicely. Can't wait for more photos of its progress.


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## Massey

Pics will be here tomorrow. I decided to work on the layout instead of play with the camera yesterday. I have put the station that was on the layout in storage again  but I am going to use this one instead. I think it fits better.

https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/itemdesc.asp?ic=0720&eq=&Tp=

So I took some pics of the layout tonight before I headed out to work. I will process them and get them ready to upload so I can get them posted when I get out of here.

Massey


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## Massey

OK got the pics off the camera. Now you can see my progress rather than just reading about it. 

Here is my To-Do list and I hope soon is becomes a to-done list.










Here is the yard





































Here is a couple of the engines in my fleet.









































Now the bridge that I kitbashed only to remove the parts that I kitbashed. I had to change it back in order to make it all work in the yard.









And the shorter version 









Now for some of the buildings and stuff on the layout. I am not sure of the exact layout of each building yet but this is the general idea. I also have Merchant's row 2 to throw in the mix.

























Here is my barrel factory

























Here is the lumber yard that is gonna supply the wood for the barrels and other places. The area behind the building will be thick woods and the tracks will be hidden in a tunnel.

















And now the rest, a little of the yard with trains in it and a couple of the engine terminal.

























The near track of the engine terminal is also my programming track.


















Massey


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Everything is looking pretty sweet, Massey! You have come a long ways so far, and have done a nice job as well! Keep it up! 

Chad


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## tjcruiser

Ditto. It's beginning to COME ALIVE! 

TJ


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## sstlaure

Looking good.

Just a thought. You may want to replace those angled braces above your yard for your upper shelf with the stamped steel "L" style. It would increase the free space between your layout deck and any obstructions from above. You could also install a backdrop over the top of an L-bracket for a real clean look.


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## dustinb

*Engines*

Where did you get the diesel engines them are cool?


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## Massey

The 2 GP38-2s (5334 and 5385) are Altas Silver series, The SD40-2 1641 is a BLI Paragon with QSI Sound, The SD40-2 with the A/C on the roof is a Athearn BB engine that I did the upgrades to. There is a GP35 by Kato (1301) and last is the MP15DC from Atlas Silver sereis. I have many others but those are the locos on my layout as of right now.

I thought about those shelf brackets but I dont really have any obstructions to speak of those angle brackets do not really get in the way.


Massey


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## Massey

OK thought this thread was about finished, but I made some nice changes to the layout that I think is worth sharing. I have been thinking of a way to add extra industries to my layout and I have had no idea where. Well today I pulled up some track and relaid it to give me 2 new industries. The first is going to go in the blank space before the turn out and the other on the end of the turn out's diverging route. The spur off the other leg is to assist with switching since one car will block the spur to the north and also It can be used for storage. The storage track is going to be behind the Merchant's Row I that is going to be placed there. Here are some before and afters.

Before.









After


















Massey


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Looks like nice changes, Massey! I can see why you would want it that way. Should be interesting to operate.

Chad


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## Massey

I tested the operations with the new changes today and it seems to work quite well. The only thing that is going to be a little of a challenge is the storage track is going to be hidden behind buildings.

Massey


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## norgale

Nice work Massey. I would be worried about that hammer falling on the Merchants Row. That could ruin my day.Hope you make that tunnel removable. If there is a derailement that's where it will occure.
You really are making great headway but don't rush to finish this thread. I'm really enjoying your progress. pete


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## Massey

Thanks Pete.

The tunnel is not removable but I can get my hand almost all the way in through the portal. Also I have made sure that area of track is good and reliable. The hammer is secure on the wall pretty good, it may fall in an earthquake but if we have one of them I may have more than one hammer falling to worry about. 

Massey


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## norgale

It's not the track as much as a dirty wheel that bumps along and derails in the tunnel. It's Murphy's Law don'tchaknow. Pete


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## Massey

Oh yea I know Murphy and I have a restraining order against him.

Massey


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## norgale

HaHa! Like Murphy has ever been restrained.


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## Geep Fan

Looking good Massey! Your doing great and further along than me. I am still dropping feeders. 

Corey


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## Massey

Thanks Corey. 

This being my 4th layout I premade a few of the features that I found were more difficult with the layout assembled. I predrilled the holes for the wiring that was going to go under the layout and I made sure that I could access this all with out crawling under anything.

Massey


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## norgale

Massey if you don't have to crawl under the table for something your not doing it right.
Pete


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## Massey

OH dont worry Pete there is still some crawling under stuff. OH and I am thinking about making some storage tracks under the yard. This will allow me to hold more stuff, turn entire trains around and give my interchange freight an actual destination rather than just make a couple of loops and then return to the yard. 

Massey


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## Massey

OK I thought my benchwork was done but I found that I could really use some staging other than my yard. Since I have an interchange with the "real" NS I need to allow the train to leave the layout rather than just make a couple of loops around the town. 
SO... Here is what I am thinking.









See all the space below the yard?

Here is where the wye meets the area just below the yard. Now I am thinking that if a train could continue under the yard there would be plenty of space to hold a couple of cars and an engine or so. 










I think I am going to take the existing framework for the yard and lower it to the staging area and rebuild a new yard above using smaller lumber. My yard will be exactly the same since it does work quite well but it will just be on a different framework.

Stay tuned for the modifications.

Massey


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## mr_x_ite_ment

That sounds like a GREAT modification to me, Massey. Won't take you too long either since you already have it built...just to move it down. Good luck with it, and I look forward to seeing the change!

Chad


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## norgale

Good thing to make the changes now. I changed mine about five times before I had what I wanted with the space available. Much harder to change it later. Looking good Massey. Pete


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## Massey

Thanks Pete.

I ran through a full operating session the other day and found out a few things. First the layout works quite well. Second there is enough work for 2 or 3 people to run trains, but it is really difficult running solo. Third, I need a place for my interchange train to go and come from. This is the reason for the change.

Massey


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## Massey

OK Today I got the staging yard done and working. I used some Atlas #6 switches since space is not a huge concern (and I had them laying around) I also used a couple of Atlas Snap switch machines. There is only going to be a few inches between decks so it is not something I am going to want to reach in and mess with. The rope lights will be strung up under the upper deck for lighting the underside, more on that tomorrow. Here are a few pics for you to enjoy.



































Sorry I guess I didnt get any pics of the staging with the rope lights hanging out so look for that tomorrow.

I also set up the dispatcher's desk. This is the computer that links to the layout and where I control the yard. Yard control is done via JMRI.









Comments are always welcome, let me know what you all think about the new additions.

Massey


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## norgale

*computer inyaface*

Massey I really like what your doing with this new layout. Computer control has fascinated me for a longtime but I don't understand how it works. Maybe you could shed some light on this when you get time.
Also I see two things I'd like to mention; if the yard will end where it is now you may want to move that crossover turnout more towards the entrance to the yard. Being back where it is won't leave you enough room to switch cars. Or is that an escape for a locomotive?
Second is you have enough room for two more tracks there. Knowing what I know now after building the BGC I would definetly have as many yard tracks as possible. You always need more as time goes on and rolling stock is added to your roster.
Using your #6 turnouts will be a blessing in the long run. I have all kinds of problems with my #4's and the six axle trucks on the newer locos. They always want to climb the points and that is agrivating as all get out. My TO's are pretty old so maybe the new ones are made better but my next layout will have nothing less than #6's and #8's where there is room. Pete


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## Massey

Thanks Pete, This is not really a yard but off layout staging and train storage. I the mid point switches on tracks 2 and 3 are for an engine escape and I made the shortest long enough to handle a pair of SD40-2s. Track 1 is for turning entire trains at my wye. No more dropping the engine to turn it and then connect back to the train. There is not going to be any switching done on this yard, that will happen on the not yet built yard that is going to be identical to what I tore down yesterday.

As for computer control this is alot simpler than it sounds. You need a couple of things first. Since I am using Digitrax I will describe what is needed for that system. 

For full control you will need a DCS50, DCS51, or DCS100, for limited control a DB150. You will need a computer interface device. I use the Locobuffer from http://www.rr-cirkits.com/ you can also use the Digitrax PR3 for the same functions.
Software, I use JMRI for programing and control, I believe that the PR3 can also interface with JMRI, and by using Digitrax's software you can use the PR3 to add sounds to Digitrax decoders.

Install JMRI on your computer, hook the Locobuffer to the USB and Loconet and make sure to set up the COM port emulator so the Locobuffer and JMRI can talk to each other. Then you simply need to use the tools available in JMRI to either program on the main, on a program track (there is options for each on the opening screen of DecoderPro) in the tools there is a Throttle, that can be used to control trains just like the hand held can, it is pretty basic and self explanitory on how the throttle app works. 

As for setting up automation I have limited experience in this area of computer control. I helped set up block detection and signaling but my part of the project was more of the wiring and install of the signal decoders and block detection devices.

Panel pro can be used to control turnouts if you have your layout set up for automatic switches with your favorite switch motors. Again I have limited experience in this department, but you can use a program like Paint to draw the schematic of your layout and then set the switches and once you are done you only have to click the switch to change it. It works really slick I have seen a pannel set up and running on the same layout that we were doing the block detection on.

Massey


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## norgale

Oh! Well then,if it's all that easy I should have no trouble with it--not. I'd ask you to translate all that into english but I still wouldn't understand what your talking about. 
I'll just have to wait till I can buy some of this DCC equipment and see how it goes. I just don't know the terminology for all the parts and pieces so that's what I'll have to learn first. Gee and I was doing so well with Analog too. Ha!
Pete


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## Massey

OK here is where I am now. The rope lights work great the underneath storage tracks are well lit and things are easy to see under there.




























OK time to get back to rebuilding the yard.

Massey


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## Massey

OK work is finished for tonight, and the layout is fully functional once again. I will run through a work day on the railroad. Here is the finished product. I am not going to senic the under yard. 




























Massey


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## norgale

That really looks great Massey. The rope light is a very good idea and uses very little electricity with more than enough light to see what's going on.
I would still put at least one more track at the front for the staging yard but what you have there is going to work ok. You sure are packing a lot of railroading into a small space. Shows good planning in advance. Pete


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Wow, Massey, you made those changes in quick time! The changes look GREAT too! You will have lots of track for parking new railcars on. It is fun to buy railcars when you know you have the space for them on the layout! Great job!

Chad


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## Massey

I hate to say this guys but dont look for any major updates for a while. I have a few kits to build yet but as for anything new to finish up anything that will be on hold. My HR department just informed me that I am layed off as of December 2. Yea merry f'ing christmas. 

Some one here is going to try and help me keep my job as the HR rep told him different than she told me. So if that goes well I will be still working on the railroad but if not (and I am not holding my breath I dont look good smurf color) the railroad is on hold.

Massey


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## deboardfam

What? December... thats crap!


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## norgale

This is the tragedy of our current political situation in the USA. DC tells us that things are getting better and they just keep getting worse. If we are to change things and ever get our country back we all have got to get better educated in what out elected officials are doing to us.
I'm an old guy now and I got laid off too back in July of 07. The shopping center I managed for eight years got sold and I went down the road with a nice shiny new Tommy Bahama wrist watch and what ever else I could get. I won't have to pay for the excesses of the government but a lot of you will.
Now all the "Occupying "of downtown anywhere won't do a darned thing to help straighten things out. What we have is the almighty vote and a computer to find out what's going on with our economy and that's it so we all must find the best way to use that vote AND USE IT. We must study where our money is going and elect people who will stop the money hemorrage and start toward balancing our budget.

Most people don't have the slightest idea who our representatives are local,state and federal. Get their names and look them up and see what they have voted for and what they voted against and even if they voted at all. Watch CNN (boreing) and see what's happening that concerns you and the country. Look up 'subsidies ' on line and see where the government is paying billions to influence the agricultural industry and find out who is responsible for these huge money givaways. Check out legislation concerning the pharmacutical companies and the companies who are moving out of the USA. You'd move too if you had to pay Uncle Sam 36% of your net profit in taxes every year. No wonder a gallon of milk costs $4 and the dairy industrie gets millions of dollars in subsidies to keep the price up.
The subterfuge that is going on to make the rich richer is unbelievable and we have to stop it. Voting intelligently is the only thing we have that will influence our future and not nearly enough people use it.
Sorry to get off the subject here and I'm not talking politics as much as I'm warning everyone that you control what happens in DC by who you send there. Stop reelecting the same old people and find somebody who will represent you and not the special interests that have such a strangle hold on us. If we change our congressmen and other representatives more often we can break the chain of the "Good Ol' Boy" syndrom that rules us and get out from under the boot of the rich and big corporations. If we don't there will be a lot more layoffs and looting of this great country. And we will pay for it.
I'm very sorry to hear of this situation Massey and the timing couldn't be worse for you. Hope your friend can help you somehow. 
Pete


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## Geep Fan

So sorry to hear that Massey, hoping for the best for you! 

Corey


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## tjcruiser

Massey,

My sympathies to you, too, on the layoff. Sometimes when one door closes in life, another one opens ... wishing you the best.

In terms of the "brain trust" in DC, I agree with the comments above. Our country is hemorrhaging at the seams. And we taxpayers keep going along for the crazy ride, with gov't spending gone completely amuk.

The problem in this country is that our tax dollars are deducted directly from our paychecks. We really don't "see" how much gov't is taking. We'd be far better off (and with masses of people more likely more informed) if we were paid 100% of our salaries, and then had to actually write a check to pay for fed taxes, social security, etc. People would stop and think much, much more than they are ... certainly much more than they did when they voted for "hope and change" 3 years ago. How's that workin' out for us, huh?

Sorry to vent,

TJ


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## norgale

There is one thing that everybody can do and that's contact your congressman and demand that he do something about the Securities and Exchange Commission sitting on their butts and letting the speculators keep driving up the price of oil and thus gasoline.The SEC has regulators to curb the speculation but they arn't doing their job. Gasoline would be about $1.50 a gallon if it wern't for the seculators buying and selling oil futures.
There is absolutly nothing else that could make so much of a difference to the economy than the lowering of gas prices. Everything you see. hear, touch, or buy has to be moved with oil products at one time or another. The more gas costs the more the items cost that we have to buy.
Send that congressman an email and tell him to lower the gas prices for a better economy. It just might work. Pete


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## Massey

I have been saying the same thing for 3 years Pete. Problem is alot of the senators and other political people are the ones making it rich off the oil products. Why would they want to remove the cash cow that they are making millions off of. And when you make that much who cares if milk is $4 a gallon or gas is too, that $4 is making you millions.

Massey


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## norgale

That's exactly the wrong attitude Massey. Get out and vote the old guys out. That's the answer to the problem of congress. Maybe the new guy will be better and maybe he won't but you have to try and change the "business as usual" attitude in DC. Don't kid yourself into believing that your vote won't count and there's nothing you can do. Voting is the one thing you can do and it will count.
Most people don't even think about who they are voting for. Just put a mark next to the same old name and the heck with it. Did you know that in a Presidential election only about 30 to 40% of the eligible people go to the polls and cast their vote? That's less than half of the people in this country decide how the country will be run for the next four years.. This appathy is also the reason why we have what we have today, a bunch of crooks making a ton of money from all sorts of places and they don't give one hoot or a holler whether you have a job or not. Full retirement at 2/3rds pay for the rest of their life. Not a bad deal for them and you and I have to pay for it. 
We just have to go vote to stop it all. Are you mad enough yet? Pete


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## Massey

I didnt mean to say that there is nothing we can do about it I know we can but right now the people running things have their money deep in oil pockets. Not as deep in as the last administration had but deep enough to cause us that pay for this enough grief. I will vote the people I think will do a good job in office, but most cases it is a lesser of evils vote. 

Today's governmental system does not allow a by the people approach but leads us to believe it is by the people. I have signed many patitions that were ment to support bills that would limit spending, hold officials accountable, keep people informed of gov. spending and basically make it so the people have control once again. I never see those initiatives in the polls when I go to vote. I do see tax hikes, liquor initiatives, school cuts, SSI changes that give less but take more out of our checks. Those are what I see on the ballots and I vote no, time and again, but they seem to show up every 2-4 years depending on the voting cycle. I think if a bill gets voted out it should be out and not reissued next time around. If a bill is voted out then there should be NO WAY to sneak it in by tagging it along with another well liked bill. This corruption is what is killing us today. This is practice should be illegal but bills to make this illegal never seem to make it to the polls, because the politicians that make the laws dont want to see a law that limits their current paychecks or abilities to make the laws they want due to their own special interests. 

Yes I am mad about it but for the last 18 years I have voted I have yet to see things change in the favor of the people. This needs to change yes but I dont see it happening any time soon. I really hate to sound this way but the change needs to come from the top, it has been too long now and the bottom of the chain cannot make the difference any more. FDR was a great pres, he put alot of what we have today in motion and pulled this country out of a huge hole it and the world was in but since that point the gov has become too big, and it has become too corrupt (and leagally corrupt at that) for the little guys to be heard any more. If your bank account can claim 7 or more digits on the left of the . then you may get some attention but not when you have more out than in most months.

Massey


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## norgale

Well there's some good points to think about Massey and I understand your frustration. I have to agree with all that you have said too but I just can't sit and do nothing. One point is that as long as the people have enough for themselves they don't care what happens to the money. America is a very very rich country with tons of opportunities for anyone ambitious enough to grab them. Some people do and some don't. Those who risk the most stand to win the most or lose the most. That's the American way.
Those people who are deep into the mush of DC were put there by the voters and they can be sent packing by the voters too. Just depends on how mad the people are. This time around the people are very mad and I think you will see some serious and numerous changes in DC next time around. At least I hope so.
Problem is that there are 20 million people out of work and that's just a drop in the bucket. 90% of the people are still employed and most are fat and happy. These people won't be as interested in voting as much as I am or you are. There's the apathy and it's not a good situation at all. Pete


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## CasperFLSTC

Massey said:


> It does look steeper but I am lifting the trains 5" over an 8' run minus a few inches for the transitions it comes out to about 2.5% Just going up 5" in 96" is 1.9% if I am doing my math right. EIther way I have had a 4% grade on a layout before and very few issues on engines climbing that grade either. I unfortunatly dont have the room to build a nice long 70+ car coal drag even tho I own enough RD4 coal hoppers to make the train up. How fun that would be!!
> 
> Massey


Question: What formula are you using to calculate grade? I have ready that 1" in 100" is a 1% grade. ((1/100)*100). So your 5" in 96" calculates to a tad over 5% grade based on that formula. Perhaps I have the wrong one?

BTW This is a GREAT layout and quite an inspiration to someone just getting into this.

EDITED: Nevermind - I re-read and re-read your post and realized that your 5/96 was only referring to the partial grade on your overall slope  I'll study more for the next quiz


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Massey, TJ, and Pete...I agree 100% with you guys. Our government is out of control with its spending, and we are all paying a price. In a time when we all have to make cutbacks, why can't DC? Our government wants a lot of control over many things, but I would hate to see this happen. We all know how well our government can run things after all (I think a group of monkeys could do better).

I hope the American people choose wisely a year from now...I am tired of the disconnect between Washington and common sense!

Chad


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## Massey

Casper: I did my calculations backwards and got the grade wrong. Keep reading a little more you will see.

Mr X. The Gov is cutting back that is why I got laid off!!

Massey


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## norgale

Good time to go into business for yourself anf put your old company out of business. Pete


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## Gansett

It was never intended that a person elected to congress would make a career out of it. You served your term, maybe two, then went back home. It was never intended for lobbyist to have any influence over congress. It was never intended to have PAC's that can raise and donate unlimited amounts. It was never intended for a corportion to have the same rights as a individual. Until Texas executes a corp I'm not believing that.

It's all about the money. You can be a better choice but if your opponent outspends you, you are doomed. 

When congress talks of cutting benefits for Vets, it frosts my cupcakes. 90% of them never served. Same with cutting SS or Medicare. Well they got theirs and don't need it, too bad for you. 

If you really want to know how I feel pm me. I hate politics.


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## Wicked_Silence

Looks good Massey. Wish I had the space for something like this. 

I just realized that with that grading chart, I'm going to need one heck of a helix to go up 2 ft to another level of layout.  48 ft of track in a helix, has that been done?


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## Massey

yes it has and if you look in the current issue of Model Railroader they have a layout that is small double decked and uses a 48" or so helix. I have visited layouts that raised about 24" on a helix, the train is gone in the helix for a while but it can make the climb easy. My double deck is done with a "nolix" that means you use a large area to bring trains up to the new level and not with a loop-d-loop or helix. My grade is right about 5% but my engines make the climb with little to no trouble.



Massey


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## norgale

Read this. We pay 'em to grow the stuff and then when they grow too much and have to dump it on the ground and the price drops we pay 'em some more to make up for the loss. Now does this make sense? This happened several years ago but it's typical of what subsidies can do to us. Pete
http://artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/articles/09harvest.html

Think "Corn Growers Lobby" and corrupt congressmen on the take. Watch this. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9QQcP_Y1II


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## mr_x_ite_ment

I feel that some of the cutbacks now are due to years of EXCESSIVE spending. I am sorry for your layoff, Massey.

In all of the government's cutbacks, I don't see them cutting back on their own salaries! I could see if they were helping matters and could justify their salaries and big pensions, but they are doing a terrible job in my opinion. I can't justify big salaries when job performance is poor!


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## sstlaure

So long as you keep the radius fairly large (greater than 24") you can get a helix of almost unlimited height. You just need to balance the length of your trains against the grade you put inside the helix. The length of trains feasible and the reliability will increase with the diameter of the helix. The bigger the better.

Mine is set at 52" total diameter (26" radius) and rises 4" each revolution so I've got a grade of 2.45% (4" rise in 163.4" run) My trains start to struggle up the grade with ~15 heavy cars in tow.


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## Massey

Well after talking to HR today there is an opening in Bremerton and they have my name as the #1 candidate for the position. All I have to do is wait for the job to be listed on the corp website and apply for it. And if no one else does it is mine, if some one else does they would have to have been laid off before me, and have higher seniority to get it. They also offered to give me preferance in returning to this position if it becomes available once again.

Massey


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## sstlaure

Sounds hopeful Massey. Keep your head up.


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## norgale

Hang in there Massey you'll be ok. However the first thing you better do is apply for unemployment so you'll at least have something coming in until a spot opens up for you. It takes two weeks I think before the unemployment starts to come in so don't wait till your desperate and need it. Do it now and if you get a job fast just tell them to stop it and they will. Unemployment pays every two weeks and you ought to go with the direct deposit as the mail could take several days to get delivered.
Here in Fla you can apply on line and never have to set foot in an unemployment office. Maybe it's that way for you too. Check it out. I got a check every two weeks 99 times when I got laid off. I never saw an unemployment office or person and never saw one of the checks. It was electronically deposited and they never missed by even one day. UC saved my bacon when no jobs were coming up. Pete


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## Massey

I work about 4-8 hours a week at an auto part store and since I am still technically "employed" even tho it is only a few hours a week (and there is no hours to add to my schedual) I will not qualify for unenjoyment.

Even if I put my 2 weeks in now I still got the layoff notice before so the "quitting" trumps the layoff and I am out once again. Lets just hope nothing blocks my path for the job in Bremerton or they find money here to keep me on with.

Massey


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## norgale

I thought we were talking a full time job. I guess the loss of those few hours won't kill you financialy and certainly you won't qualify for UC. That's the trouble with part time jobs which is about all that's available for me right now. No benefits at all and wierd hours that change all the time not to mention generally low pay that would hardly pay for the gas it took to get to work and back.
I can see me bagging groceries now; "Hey B*#@$ ,paper or plastic"? 
or "What? Carry your groceries out? What do ya think I am a bag boy or sumpin? Carry your own groceries ya old goat". I really wouldn't last long dealing with the public. Ha! Pete


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## Massey

The job at the part store I do for "fun" and the discount on parts (which makes the parts really cheap). My Main job is working at a hospital in the IT department monitoring servers and assisting doctors with their login accounts. That is the job I am losing not the part store job. Honestly the only thing I would miss about losing the part store job is the discount. My pay there is laughable

Massey


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## norgale

You can always move to Florida Massey. There's about ten hospitals around here and they are hiring all the time and pay good wages. As a matter of fact they are among the very few places that seem to be recession proof as the population here is much older than most other places. All the retirees you know. Big business here. Pete


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## Massey

I would love to go back to FL. It was my favorite duty station when I was in the Navy. Bobe's Hobby and Trains by Johnson could easily keep my train thirst filled!

Massey


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## Massey

*Good news!*

OK I just found out that the Job in Bremerton is mine if I want it. HELL YES I want the job. My commute will be over an hour now and my truck is not very good on long commuting fuel mileage but it is a job and I will stay employed. Tomorrow I am going to call the HR manager and accept the position.

Massey


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## sstlaure

Great news. I drive about an hour each way to work. It's not THAT bad.


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## Massey

Time wise it is not bad but at 20MPG that is going to kill me.

Massey


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## tjcruiser

Massey,

Congrats on the new job offer. When one door closes in life, another one usually opens. I hope this leads to happy horizons for you.

TJ


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## Wicked_Silence

Glad to hear about the new job Massey. Congrats. I know from experience that it sucks being in limbo looking for work.


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## CasperFLSTC

Congratulations on the job!

Don


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## Twehttam

Massey, congrats! A few years ago I worked up at Keyport and lived over an hour away. Instead of driving, I signed up for the ride share shuttle van. If they're still doing that, I'd suggest looking into it. Saved a lot of gas $.


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## cbarm

Congrats on the new career massey. I drive to work just about everyday 25 miles with a truck gettin 15 mpg n it sucks, but the job is definately worth it... Good luck and NICE layout!!


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## Big Ed

Massey said:


> I work about 4-8 hours a week at an auto part store and since I am still technically "employed" even tho it is only a few hours a week (and there is no hours to add to my schedual) I will not qualify for unenjoyment.
> 
> Even if I put my 2 weeks in now I still got the layoff notice before so the "quitting" trumps the layoff and I am out once again. Lets just hope nothing blocks my path for the job in Bremerton or they find money here to keep me on with.
> 
> Massey


In Jersey you can have a part time job and still collect.
You just don't get the full benefit. 
Which the max is around $598 I believe now. So they figure out what your getting and deduct it from that.

This is the slow season, 3 years ago when everything was real slow, the new plant manager wanted to lay us off for 1 day!:stroke:
I got laid off back then the week before Christmas. The week after and one week in the new year. I collected around $1700 first time in my life.

But it was not bad because I knew we were going to get called back. 

The guys they did not lay off said it was only slow during 1 week and the rest was mass confusion. They could not keep up with the work.

As we are a union shop, they did not speed up any either.:appl:

It sucks not knowing that you will be called back after short time.

Good luck Massey.
Like TJ said it may be a blessing in disguise.


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## Massey

Thanks for the cheers guys!! 

Ed, WA is not as nice with the unenjoyment, if you have a variable hour job like I do then you have the "potential" to gain full time hours so you dont qualify for assistance.

Massey


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## norgale

Geeze I'd kiss your youknow for 20 MPG. I get 13 with the Dodge truck and 8 with the Lincoln when it runs but boy they are both fast.
Any way a job is a job and I'm glad something came up for ya Massey. Hope it works out for you. Pete


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## hoscale37

Massey,

Reading through your thread- this has been cool to see the track develop. Sorry about your job loss, and congrats on the getting the replacement job! 

In regards to the commute- I drive 33 miles one way, which is anywhere from 35-45 minutes for me if not more, and I am all highway driving. Get yourself a decent little Saturn S-Series. Even though the cars have been out of production for a number of years, I've been a Saturn owner for the better part of 15 years. They are great on gas mileage- I still get 34-38 miles a gallon on my 94 SL2 (186K miles on the clock). I have a 94 SC1 with 340K miles on the original engine and a 97 SW2 that has 220K miles on the original engine as well. Cars have been paid for with cash. I don't miss having a car payment and the insurance is dirt cheap. 

As for the train layout, this is pretty sweet, and pictures that I will be studying as I venture back into the hobby. 

Cheers!


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## deboardfam

I drive near 70 miles one way... :-( 
I traded in my SUV for a 2011 Kia Forte.. I get around 32mpg or so. 
Started car pooling with someone that helps a lot.


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## norgale

340k miles on any engine is phenomenal. That's a great advert for the engine maker and for someone taking proper care of the car. Good show there. Pete


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## Gansett

340k is only 211,000 miles. Barely broken in IMHO. My '89 GMC came with a 305 that couldn't pull a ducky on a string. Rebuilt a junkyard 350, put 290,000 miles on it then sold it 5 years ago. Still see Ol' Blue on the road, puffing a bit of smoke though..


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## Wicked_Silence

JackC said:


> 340k is only 211,000 miles. Barely broken in IMHO. My '89 GMC came with a 305 that couldn't pull a ducky on a string. Rebuilt a junkyard 350, put 290,000 miles on it then sold it 5 years ago. Still see Ol' Blue on the road, puffing a bit of smoke though..


I think he was talking about miles when he wrote 340k, thats 340 000 miles. So about 544 000 Kilometers. Impressive for almost any vehicle IMHO.


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## norgale

In either case that's a lot of distance for any engine anymore. Pete


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## raleets

Two years ago this month I sold my trusty '93 Buick LeSabre with 285,000 on it's 3800 Series II V-6 motor. It was still running like a new car. 26mpg on the highway, didn't burn a drop of oil, and towed a small utility trailer with ease.
I hated to let it go, but there's only so much room for cars and I had a new TrailBlazer in its place.
Good equipment, properly cared for, will last a long time!
Bob


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## Massey

That little 3800 is one of the best engines ever built. I had one in my 99 Camaro and loved it. My wife has a 2000 Camaro Z28 with the LS1 and I would prefer to drive my little 3.8L over her car. My engine was smoother, better mileage and my car was just a fun car to drive. Her car is a fun car to play in but I would not want to drive it any long distances.

I know where I can get another V6 Camaro for cheap but I dont have the money right not to bring it home.

Massey


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## Gansett

Dex-Cool ate the intake gaskets on the wifes '98 Bonneville. My son and I put a 01 3800 in that came from Buick. It's the same engine and I'll never use Dex-Cool in any vehicle ever again. Car has over 200,000 on it but only 125,000 on the motor. We've talked about getting a new or newer car, she's taken quite a few out on test drives but always comes back to her Bonneville, says she loves it and she's gonna drive it until the wheels fall off.

That's good for me, no car payment, cheap insurance that saves money to be spent on trains!!! Or a upgraded bathroom...


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## Massey

I paid $500 for this:










It needed a new engine (3800 Series II) because some yinyang from Jiffy lube started the car with no oil. I pulled a 3800 Series II out of an 01 Bonneville and changed it over to work in a RWD car. It took me 3 long days to swap the engines. The Camaro's engine does not come out of the top of the car very well so you need to take the engine out of the bottom. Yea that was fun!!

Massey


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## hoscale37

Wicked_Silence said:


> I think he was talking about miles when he wrote 340k, thats 340 000 miles. So about 544 000 Kilometers. Impressive for almost any vehicle IMHO.


Yes, that is 340,000 miles on my car. 

The car is currently sitting though, sadly. Cylinder 3 gave up on me and the other cylinders are well below the service limit (below 185 PSI)...

So it's on the "List" of things to get done. 

Back on topic though... Massey what size/thickness of plywood did you use for the "Tabletop" of your layout. Also what gauge wiring did you use? 

I'm trying to gather up as much info as possible for my own layout which I am still in the early planning stages of working on. See my thread titled "Getting back into Model Railroading" in this section. 

Looking at either building a 4 X 6 or 4 X 8 layout. 

While the computer programming looks like it may be the "next best thing", I grew up on "Analog" track setups, so I am thinking that the good old AC/DC type setup with wiring and transformers is going to be my thing. 

And another question.. when it comes to wiring switches, should these be wired separate from the track wiring? For my setup I'm looking to find some of those "Signal Towers" that have the Green/Red/Yellow Lights on them- Essentially the "Traffic Lights for Train signals that you see and I would like these to be a part of my setup.....


----------



## sstlaure

If you're going DC then your track current will vary with the throttle setting. You want constant current to power the switch so you use a separate power source.

I use old cellphone AC-adapters to power my tortoise switches. They can be had cheap (you probably have some from phones that are long discarded.) Just cut the end off (the part that used to plug into your cellphone) - it's a simple 2 wire +/- hook-up to power the switch.

I use 1/2" plyboard with 1x4 & 1x3 frame contruction. #14 Buss wires and #20 feeder drops.


----------



## Massey

The table top I used was 3/8" OSB and I used the smooth side up. This has given me a very even surface and the OSB is alot less $$ than the same thickness ply. It is also not warped like ply tends to be. My framework is 1x4 in all areas except for the upper main yard which I used 1x2 for clearance reasons. The upper yard required extra supports that the lower yard does not because of the wood used in the lower section.

Wire switch motors with their own power supply. Do not use track power.

As for train control, the old DC method in my opinion is great for a simple layout that will only have one train at a time running. DCC is the way to go if you want more than one train on the tracks and if you want to run more than one train at any given time. DCC is a little more ecpensive but every penny I have spent on DCC is worth 10x that in modeling enjoyment. You dont have to have computer control like I have, a simple Zephyr set with your layout will provide enough power for 3 sound engines and 4 or 5 non sound engines to run at the same time, wiring is greatly simplified and like I said before the enjoyment is multiplied.

Massey


----------



## norgale

So what's going on Massey? Any progress to report? Pete


----------



## Massey

I have not been outside to work on the layout lately so there has been no changes. I assembled a new Kato SD40-2 and I have 3 more to build, I will post pics of them when I get the other 3 done.

Massey


----------



## norgale

What do you mean assemble? Are they kits? Pete


----------



## Massey

They are kits in that they need to have all the small details like grab irons, horns. railings, and other small details put on. It takes about an hour or so for each one, and that is after I learned all the little tricks to build a Kato engine.

Massey


----------



## JJones

Any Progress?


----------



## Massey

at the moment no. My work schedual has not permitted me to spend much time outside with my layout. What few minutes I do have are not enough to really get started on any of the other smaller projects I have either. Right now I get about 30-40 minutes of free time and that is spent with my kids or learning guitar. Mostly with my kids tho.

Massey


----------



## waltr

Massey said:


> Right now I get about 30-40 minutes of free time and that is spent with my kids or learning guitar. Mostly with my kids tho.
> 
> Massey


That is time most well spent for it won't be long before they have grown and moved away. Then you'll have time for the trains.


----------



## Massey

I finally have some time to work on the layout so I decided to build my turnout control switches to replace the messed up Atlas ones. Here is my control panel so far.



















I still need a method of wiring it to the layout and I am thinking about using screw posts. I will post the wiring in a few. I am still wiring it up as I type this.

Oh and the empty hole is for a LED to indicate that power is on.

Massey


----------



## xrunner

Massey,

I would have figured you for stationary decoders/computer switching. Do you prefer mechanical or is it another reason you don't use digital control?


----------



## Massey

Here is it wired as far as I can until I get some screw terminals to finish it up. This is going to attach right to the facia where the altas switches can be seen in the other pics.










Massey


----------



## Massey

xrunner said:


> Massey,
> 
> I would have figured you for stationary decoders/computer switching. Do you prefer mechanical or is it another reason you don't use digital control?


The reason for manual throws on other parts of the layout is lack of disposable income to buy 13 more Tortiose motors and 4 stationary decoders. The staging yard has atlas coil switch motors, I had those laying around and since there is barely enough room for my hands and the train will need to be switched to the right tracks I figure this was the best way.

Massey


----------



## JJones

Will the atlas switch motors not work with a stationary decoder?


----------



## joed2323

massey- do you have a overall layout picture of your awesome work in progress?

I love what you did with the space you have.


----------



## breakerboy

Massey,

I just read all 15 pages of this thread - I haven't read 15 pages of anything in about 3years!!!! Awesome layout. Great narrative on your progress and the issues faced. Thanks you very much for taking us along for the ride. 

bb


----------



## joed2323

hows the progress been on your layout. any new updates?:thumbsup:

Also are you going to hide/ or block the view of ramp in any way or, what are your plans for that.


----------



## Massey

Thanks for the compliments guys. 

The ramp in the back is going to be a terraced part of the city with the train disappearing into some trees around near the curve before the incline. I will have some low relief buildings on top of the terrace and it will be removable for cleaning and if I ever get a derailment in there.

Atlas switch motors will work with stationary decoders just fine but I dont have the money to invest in them at the moment. The switches and manual throws work great for right now.

Massey


----------



## waredbear

Born and raised in P'cola. Is the hobby shop you talk about still orange or did they finally paint it? What part of Washington are you in? I lived over in Spokane for about 12 years and Leavenworth area for three. Love the mountians.

Retired Air Force here.

Reid

p.s. Love the layout. I agree...we need an overall picture.


----------



## joed2323

massey- lol we want more, dont lead us on


----------



## Massey

Bobe's Hobby is in a blue building and Trains By Johnson was in a tan colored building. Those were the only 2 shops I visited when I was in P'cola. I got one of Bobe's commemrotive 50th annaversary cars and it sees use on my rails as often as I can, I love those specialty cars that are one of a kind (or at least 1 of 500). 

I went out and played with trains for the first time in months and found that my removable section did not want to line back up when I put it back in. When winter first set in I had to shim it a little and that was no biggy now the shimming is fine but the cork did not want to play nice with others. A little trimming here and lifting there and all is well again. I can run my trains at full throttle and no derailments once again.

As for an overall picture that is not going to be able to happen. The way the shed is I cant get it all at once. Well at least not with my current photography equipment. If some one will send me a fish eye lens for a Nikon SLR I will get the full railroad from overhead. This lens would do nicely
http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produ...ses/1910/AF-Fisheye-NIKKOR-16mm-f%2F2.8D.html

Heck I may even be able to get the full railroad at eye level too with that lens it says it has a 180° viewing angle. Just PM me and I will give you my address so you can send me the lens. 

I will be working out in the shed here soon so I will snap some new pics to post here soon.

Massey


----------



## joed2323

waiting on new pictures, cant wait


----------



## Massey

Nothing has changed in a while. With a better wide angle lens I could get some really cool shots of the entire layout... See post above for more details 

Massey

P.S. I will see what I can do this weekend.


----------



## joed2323

any changes yet or has your layout been put on hold?


----------



## Massey

NOpe still on hold. I have been working 7 or more days a week and right now I dont have much time for anything else. The layout has not changed since I built the lower staging level.

Massey


----------



## norgale

Massey I'd like to know when the last time was that you worked more than seven days a week? Pete


----------



## Massey

last week. I have 2 jobs plus I do auto repair on the side. this week is going to be more of the same, 2 cars to fix (one is mine), 5 days at one job and sunday + 2 other shifts after my primary job durring the week. I am pulling in about 75+ hours... I want a break!!

Massey


----------



## hoscale37

Massey said:


> Bobe's Hobby is in a blue building and Trains By Johnson was in a tan colored building. Those were the only 2 shops I visited when I was in P'cola. I got one of Bobe's commemrotive 50th annaversary cars and it sees use on my rails as often as I can, I love those specialty cars that are one of a kind (or at least 1 of 500).
> 
> I went out and played with trains for the first time in months and found that my removable section did not want to line back up when I put it back in. When winter first set in I had to shim it a little and that was no biggy now the shimming is fine but the cork did not want to play nice with others. A little trimming here and lifting there and all is well again. I can run my trains at full throttle and no derailments once again.
> 
> As for an overall picture that is not going to be able to happen. The way the shed is I cant get it all at once. Well at least not with my current photography equipment. If some one will send me a fish eye lens for a Nikon SLR I will get the full railroad from overhead. This lens would do nicely
> http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produ...ses/1910/AF-Fisheye-NIKKOR-16mm-f%2F2.8D.html
> 
> Heck I may even be able to get the full railroad at eye level too with that lens it says it has a 180° viewing angle. Just PM me and I will give you my address so you can send me the lens.
> 
> I will be working out in the shed here soon so I will snap some new pics to post here soon.
> 
> Massey


Massey,

In my career of job (audio Visual) working as a photographer at one point... have you considered shooting your layout from above with the use of a ladder to get yourself elevated. Just a thought, especially with this layout (what you have so far is pretty awesome) shooting from above via a ladder may be an option. Of course the Fisheye lens or even shooting a panoramic view (if your camera has that capability) might be a pretty cool option.

Just some thoughts.


----------



## norgale

Your very lucky to have such a job Massey. I know people who would kill for half the hours your getting. On the otherhand there can be too much work for one person. Don't burn yourself out for a few extra bucks. It's usually not worth it. Pete


----------



## joed2323

look on the bright side, you will have a bunch of money to splurge on model trains and getting your layout up and going again


----------



## manchesterjim

Massey said:


> I have been working 7 or more days a week and right now
> 
> Massey


I'd like to find the guy that added the extra days to the week and have him hung!:thumbsup::thumbsup: Or maybe just deported......to Antarctica!


----------



## Massey

Hey guys! Just dropping in to say I have not fallen off the earth quite yet. My new place of work does not allow me the freedom the last site did so I dont get to get online as much, and after sitting in front of a computer screen all day that is the last thing I want to do when I get home. I finally have 1 day off comming up this weekend and I am going to try to use it for some railroad building. Lets hope nothing comes up between here and there that keeps me from getting any train time in. 

Massey


----------



## joed2323

About time massy. Thought maybe you threw in the towel.

I cant wait to see some updates on your layout.
Afterall i was always impressed with your layout. Keep up the good work


----------



## gustovski

cant wait massey


----------



## Xnats

Nice to see your still kicking that tin can down the tracks :thumbsup:


----------



## Massey

OK I finally got around to cleaning the shed and assessing any damage that the winter caused. One minor adjustment to one of the tracks on the removable bridge and some cleaning and everything ran great. I ran through a day with both the passenger train and again with the freight and all was good. 

Now I just need to build a couple more structures and get some scenery laid down!!

I have decided to add a small creek or wash to the removable bridge to break up the monotony of that area. I think I am going to leave the tracks where they are and use my router to cut out the area of the stream/wash and build the overpass out of the existing wood and track. We will see how this goes but I dont think it will be too hard to carve out what needs to be carved out and make it all work.

Massey


----------



## Massey

Oh and I am back to my old worksite so I should be able to get online more often. They gave me more stuff to do but it does not take too long to get all my work done and able to get online.

Massey


----------



## lears2005

When we going to see some pic


----------



## Massey

lears2005 said:


> When we going to see some pic


Nothing has changed since I posted the last pic. I will hopfully have a slow weekend (being broke does that) and will be able to spend some time in the shed. 

Here are a few of what the layout looks like now. 

Here is the double level yard and staging.

























My buildings

















































































































The last pic is in about the same state... except that my 2 yr old daughter decided to help me "piant" the buildings with some red perminate marker. I have not fixed it yet.

Massey


----------



## norgale

Don't fix the marker/paint Massey. She will never forgive you. Besides I think it looks fine. A little faded paint never hurt anything. Looks like you have a good lot of structures going there and the trackage is also looking good. Love the double deck area.
Good to have you back at it Massey. Pete
Any special colors for the SMR?


----------



## joed2323

Massey, dont take this the wrong way, but i miss you man

Glad to see you back and working on the layout:thumbsup:

Ive always liked your setup you have, and i can not wait to see more pics, please keep us updated.

What is the warehouse/ 2 stall garage going to be? 

Good to have you posting again


----------



## New Berlin RR

Massey said:


> The last pic is in about the same state... except that my 2 yr old daughter decided to help me "piant" the buildings with some red perminate marker. I have not fixed it yet.
> 
> Massey


honestly Massey, I would NOT change it, it looks kinda nice, infact who knows I may do the same on one of my model buildings (small one) in the same way after her, plus she wanted to help daddy out with his train set. keep it for her! heck maybe give it a look of a shop like "sandies cookies" or something (with her name)...just a thought!!!


----------



## Massey

Um... The painting job my daughter did happened right after that last pic was taken. She got red marker all over the brown and white side panel. She does not even remember doing it. The joys of youth.

Believe it or not the double deck area was not part of the original plan. More of an afterthought. I found that the operations of the railroad were not very realistic as the trains never really had anywhere to go. My first thoughts were to have the outgoing train loop around the city twice simulating one train leaving and another comming back... Yea that didnt work too well and I also had no way to turn an entire train, just an engine. I had an engine parked on the east leg of the wye one day and it looked like it would be able to go under the yard with ease. As it turned out I was right and if I made the yard benchwork thinner I would be able to get my hands inbetween and be able to manage any issues that may arise. 

So I removed all the track from the yard and moved the benchwork that made up the yard lower and added 3 tracks to manage the incomming and outgoing trains. This now gives my trains a testination. I rebuilt the yard with 1x2 and used some rope lights to give the staging yard some visibility. Then I returned the yard to it's original layout. 

Not only did I get a destination for my morning passenger train but I also now have a way to turn an entire train instead of just an engine.

Massey


----------



## New Berlin RR

oh, well if she won't care ehh just fix it up I guess...


----------



## Massey

SMRY colors are maroon and gold on black engines. I dont have any painted yet I have been doing thousands of other things.

Here is a pic of a SD40-2 in my proposed scheme.










Massey


----------



## Massey

joed2323 said:


> Massey, dont take this the wrong way, but i miss you man
> 
> Glad to see you back and working on the layout:thumbsup:
> 
> Ive always liked your setup you have, and i can not wait to see more pics, please keep us updated.
> 
> What is the warehouse/ 2 stall garage going to be?
> 
> Good to have you posting again


That is a little shop called "Mike's Bikes" It is a custom bike shop. Builds bikes, puts them in a crate and ships them to customers and dealers via rail. When I finish detailing the building the doors will be open so you can see inside and the guys building the bikes. This is why the roof has not been glued on yet. I made it out of a Pikestuff kit and built a custom floor and loading dock. The pikestuff kit was a shipping warehouse.

The little white building next to it is part of the Walther's Cornerstone Yard Office kit and it is going to be South Massey Heating and Oil. This will recieve a tank car full of heating oil every day or so and then truck the oil to customers. I am thinking of doing a propane supply here as well.

Massey


----------



## joed2323

massey- your paint scheme for you sd40-2 is awesome. Thats a good idea you have.. Makes it your own personal railroad:thumbsup:


----------



## trainguru

How do you get those locomotive mock-up's done? I've always wondered about that?


----------



## jjb727

It looks great! I wish I knew how to measure and build a work bench like that!


----------



## New Berlin RR

trainguru said:


> How do you get those locomotive mock-up's done? I've always wondered about that?


mee too, I want ot know how you did that Massey, I love the mock up!!


----------



## Massey

Then SD40-2 image was found online and done up in UP colors. I simply recolored the UP engine to become a SMRY engine. The top of my engine that is maroon is where a UP engine would be grey. It was not hard but it did take some time to keep the details of the drawing in place.

As for the benchwork it is not hard to build benchwork like mine you just need to measure your space, twice to be sure of the size and then cut the wood to the dimensions you desire. One good rule to follow is to always draw your cut line on the same side of the ruler/straight edge and always make the cut on the same side of the line. If not there will be some minor differences due to the wood the saw blade removes. 

Also if you notice on my benchwork I built one section and then attached it to the wall, then another section and attached it. Now the piece of the benchwork that connected the 2 areas was built based on new measurements from after the 2 main pieces are in place. This way you get accurate new piece just in case your initial measurements were not exact and this will also take minor errors into account. All that was needed was a measurement from the floor to the desired height, then a level on length and width to make sure it was all good. I did this to both sides and ended up less than 1/8th of an inch different between the north and south benchwork pieces. I did make one calculation error that almost bit me really hard. I did the math for the incline backwards ans thought I was making a 2.5% incline but in reality the incline it 5%  all of my engines can pull all my rolling stock up the incline with little effort. My MP15DC was the only engine that had any trouble and even it was able to make the grade. 

Massey


----------



## norgale

An eighth of an inch off? Pretty accurate I'd say. My new table is a half inch out of square but you wouldn't know it unless you measured the diagonals. Pete


----------



## Massey

I'm not gonna claim the layout is square. My shed is far from square but the height of each side was the 1/8 th part

Massey


----------



## Gansett

My FIL was a gubmit engineer designing rocket propulsion systems before he retired. He drove me nutz when I put an addition on the house. If a stud was 1/16th off he wouldn't allow its use. I swear if he could have found a micrometer that measured up to 8 feet he would have used it.

With the so-called quality of building materials today it's difficult to build anything square.

btw, I do miss him.


----------



## Massey

Well guys I have bad news. I have had to disassemble the layout. I have been using a storage shed to house the layout but I have not been able to afford the rental storage unit that holds the stuff the layout's shed used to hold. I dont know when I will be able to rebuild again but hopefully it will be in a bigger area, preferably a basement.

Massey


----------



## tjcruiser

Massey,

That's bad news ... sorry to hear it. Can you disassemble in quasi-modular components, so that you can reassemble (more or less) at some point?

Keeping my fingers crossed for you ...

TJ


----------



## brylerjunction

wow that sucks after all the work you put into it..


----------



## Southern

I see a basement in your future, and that will be the silver lining to this dark cloud.


----------



## Kwikster

The Phoenix shall rise from the ashes bigger and better than ever. Good luck on your next endeavor. 

Carl


----------



## joed2323

Ouch massey, that hurts This is a sad day for us modelers... I sure hope you can rebuild this in your living room :laugh:


----------



## Big Ed

Now you have to change the title.

CONSTRUCTION ENDS.


It will be bigger & better when you get going again.


----------



## Gansett

Mike,
Anyway you could put a addition on your exsisting shed to store what you have in the storage place? Or build a second shed? What you pay the storage place monthly could pay for a nice sized shed in a short period of time. 
Hate to see this happen.


----------



## New Berlin RR

NOOOOO its sad to see construction come to an end...but your not coming to an end, your just taking an unplanned pause in construction to allow for a reconfiigure of an existing place to allow you more room later in the future for a better layout!


----------



## Mrs.NIMT

Massey - a little time off never hurt anyone (just ask my hubby). If anything it will reaffirm your desire for a better layout with everything you want on it!


----------



## gustovski

Mrs.NIMT said:


> Massey - a little time off never hurt anyone (just ask my hubby). If anything it will reaffirm your desire for a better layout with everything you want on it!


well said Mrs.N
while you dont have a layout you will become thirsty for one and 
will want to try something even cooler than before (a tough call for massey his work is amazing) and the experience you have gained will help in the construction of the next layout you build


----------



## Massey

Thank you everyone for your support. I will miss the trains but rest assured this is not my last layout.

Well the livingroom idea has been tossed around a few times but it is not in the cards at the moment either. I currently have a desk, 90Gallon fishtank and a 32 x 48 railroad module that is serving as a table for my son's and my Lego collections. The module was constructed before I made contact with the local modular club and after meeting them I was very put off by their additude on how they wanted modules built and also how they felt about doing shows. They are mainly up north from me and farther than I want to drive to show, the chairman of the club will not even consider a southern chapter of the club. He will not even put it up for discussion on the meetings. The module sat in storage for a while until I decided I could use it for a Lego table. I have also a couple of 12x12 modules bolted together and sitting on the lower leg supports that my son uses to play with his legos on. (sorry neither of us have any lego trains yet). 

As for adding on to the shed I have now that is out of the question. The shed is owned by the company that owns the land I rent to keep my house on. I am not going to spend my money on a addition that I will not be able to get back. My wife and I have talked about a stand alone shed that could be large enough to house a railroad prolly in the area of 10x16. A shed like that is not owned by the landlord so it is extra value if I sell my house or if I design it properly I can disassemble the shed and take it to my new house whenever I decide to move.

Massey


----------



## joed2323

Well massey thats good to hear that your not packing your trains up and selling them at your next garage sale!!!

Your layout you built gave me inspiration for my layout, and im sure alot of other people as well. You did alot with your layout in the small space you had, that just goes to show people well careful planning pays off.

I hope you come back soon with a new design to blow our socks off, or even just rebuild your last layout and finish from where you left off!

That sucks about dealing with those rivet counters that have them so far stuck up their a88hole!!! There seems to be too many clubs that are that way:thumbsdown:


----------



## Smokinapankake

joed2323 said:


> That sucks about dealing with those rivet counters that have them so far stuck up their a88hole!!! There seems to be too many clubs that are that way:thumbsdown:


That's why I joined this forum - model trains shouldn't be like a job, and it seems that most of the folks on here don't take them too seriously. I'll never understand those guys who act like they're running a real railroad and get all butt-hurt if you don't subscribe to their modeling philosophy. 
Good luck in the future; when the trains come back they'll be better than ever and you'll have an even greater appreciation for them....


----------



## Massey

Smokinapankake said:


> I'll never understand those guys who act like they're running a real railroad and get all butt-hurt if you don't subscribe to their modeling philosophy.


That sounds like another forum that is sponsored by a popular train magazine. Yes I love the atmosphere here, I dont hardly ever visit the other site any more. keep up the good work everyone!!

Massey


----------



## New Berlin RR

joed2323 said:


> Well massey thats good to hear that your not packing your trains up and selling them at your next garage sale!!!
> 
> Your layout you built gave me inspiration for my layout, and im sure alot of other people as well. You did alot with your layout in the small space you had, that just goes to show people well careful planning pays off.
> 
> I hope you come back soon with a new design to blow our socks off, or even just rebuild your last layout and finish from where you left off!
> 
> That sucks about dealing with those rivet counters that have them so far stuck up their a88hole!!! There seems to be too many clubs that are that way:thumbsdown:


I will admit I tend to count riviets when it comes to things like sounds, looks (type of trains, cars used in certain type of consists, stuff like that), and using different road numbers on all cars and engines, other then that I just design how i want really....


----------



## Massey

Over on the other site I had some one get all bent out of shape because the backstory for my railroad was/is this. The South Massey Ry is a family run short line railroad that serves the industries of a small town called... South Massey. This rail road also connects the BNSF and NS and will occasionally move cars for the class 1s. 

His problem is there is no railroad that does this and that I should study more on how the real roads move frieght if I wanted to get the full enjoyment out of this hobby.

I dont know about you but I have a great time making my own road, my own town and also my own rules on how my road does business.

Massey


----------



## New Berlin RR

Massey, that is why I created the New Berlin RR....so I could enjoy the hobby MY way...not anyone else way....


----------



## gandy dancer#1

*construction begins*

I totally support your position MASSEY: Are you not the proprietor of your railroad?? I am going to name my rail after someplace creek river or something in texas as am a native there. I will have some MKT and Katy cars and locos in the end as my grand father started as a gandy dancer with katy back in the steam days, and retired with them in his seventies, worked his way uo from 10 -15 cents a day (according to him) to like 5 bucks a day a think as conductor, not sure, you know how grand fathers are in there story telling!!:laugh: So go for it massey, its you road, do what you want:thumbsup:


----------



## sstlaure

Massey said:


> His problem is there is no railroad that does this and that I should study more on how the real roads move frieght if I wanted to get the full enjoyment out of this hobby.
> 
> Massey


I think you hit it on the head....it's HIS problem. There are aholes everywhere, pay them no mind. When he starts paying for your train stuff, then he could have a say in it.

My ACTUAL words to someone like that aren't even close to being able to be viewed on this forum, and I'm not a bashful guy. He'd get an earfull.


----------



## sstlaure

Massey said:


> That sounds like another forum that is sponsored by a popular train magazine. Yes I love the atmosphere here, I dont hardly ever visit the other site any more. keep up the good work everyone!!
> 
> Massey


I don't visit ANY other model railroad sites.....why would you need to?


----------



## zorba

i dont really plan on naming my railroad or giving it a back story. im building it for the sole purpose of looking good, running trains, and the experience of construction.

i have no illusions of realism or anything like that. 

as long as you enjoy building it and running the trains on it, who gives a rats what others think.

the only thing i would possibly do is give the whole layout a name, and that name would be "Crapville" for the sole reason that that is what i used to name all my cities when i played simcity.


----------



## hoscale37

Massey said:


> Over on the other site I had some one get all bent out of shape because the backstory for my railroad was/is this. The South Massey Ry is a family run short line railroad that serves the industries of a small town called... South Massey. This rail road also connects the BNSF and NS and will occasionally move cars for the class 1s.
> 
> His problem is there is no railroad that does this and that I should study more on how the real roads move frieght if I wanted to get the full enjoyment out of this hobby.
> 
> I dont know about you but I have a great time making my own road, my own town and also my own rules on how my road does business.
> 
> Massey


I agree with you Massey.. it is YOUR setup and layout, and the way YOU want to run it. While it is a bit overkill- but I can understand why it is done in some clubs, etc.... But I really think having the whole Transfer cards, etc. for a model railroad and Headphone packs, etc. is a bit overkill. I realize that some guys are former rail yard workers but when you take it that kind of extreme I think it is overkill. 

I've been getting back into this hobby over the past year and I have been to a few train shows. The guys out there that have the high and almighty attitude about how to set up a layout, etc. I really could care less about. The guys at the shows that are down on my level that have good working knowledge are the ones that I enjoy talking to, because they know that I am the type of guy that will buy the older stuff and fix it up to use it. Some people who expect you to run New stuff all of the time and have All new stuff on a layout.... I just don't get that. :thumbsdown: 

Everyone is in the hobby for a different reason and to that end, everyone has the RIGHT to run their layout to their OWN liking and specs.


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## New Berlin RR

On the subject of "new" I have had maybe 1 engine that was factoyy "new" in box, all my other engines are used or purchased second hand for one reason or another...






hoscale37 said:


> I agree with you Massey.. it is YOUR setup and layout, and the way YOU want to run it. While it is a bit overkill- but I can understand why it is done in some clubs, etc.... But I really think having the whole Transfer cards, etc. for a model railroad and Headphone packs, etc. is a bit overkill. I realize that some guys are former rail yard workers but when you take it that kind of extreme I think it is overkill.
> 
> I've been getting back into this hobby over the past year and I have been to a few train shows. The guys out there that have the high and almighty attitude about how to set up a layout, etc. I really could care less about. The guys at the shows that are down on my level that have good working knowledge are the ones that I enjoy talking to, because they know that I am the type of guy that will buy the older stuff and fix it up to use it. Some people who expect you to run New stuff all of the time and have All new stuff on a layout.... I just don't get that. :thumbsdown:
> 
> Everyone is in the hobby for a different reason and to that end, everyone has the RIGHT to run their layout to their OWN liking and specs.


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## HVF City

May I chime in and support the conceptual RR layout versus the modelling of a real area. Both have their purpose in the mind of the builder, but I and my family did it a step further even.

As the houses were built, we created a "family" who lived there. Each of us (wife, son, daughter in law and grandson) embellished the family with personalities. It was so much more fun as one neighbor would get his lawn in, trees planted and then of course, cats, dogs, BBQ's and more. Even down to the level of junk around the apartments.

The actual train right now is a dual loop with a small siding. It will be expanded in fall when the activities come inside again, but the work done by 5 people on a "family train night" once a week was awesome. Last person to visit spent two hours studying all the features so far. 

Yes, computers on the store front desks are not prototypical for the general mid 60's I have selected, but neither is the scale size R/C track to match our big one. But it is fun.

And I respect those that count rivets, and super detail to model as close to the real thing, that is impressive too. But for me, I'm stretching my knowledge with the level of automation and learning, the family is having a giggle and the people who see it are blown away.

Have fun with it, after all, even the best modeled steam locomotive is powered by a little electric motor on all our layouts.

Yup, the name of the city is "HVF City" after our R/C race team of HVF Racing Team. Me, the Grandson and the Son have a blast at them both.

Thanks,

Bill


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