# Where do you find the reproduction Flyer stuff?



## chrisallen21 (Sep 1, 2016)

I see folks referring to reproduction Flyer stuff they buy and was wondering what sites people use to do this? I would be interested in seeing what is available. I assume all of the stuff made today runs on the old 2 track system without modification (AC, not DCC)?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Are you asking about parts or engines and rolling stock?


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## chrisallen21 (Sep 1, 2016)

Engines and rolling stock mostly although repo parts as well. I am not a purist; I like to run my stuff and new/improved parts do the job just fine for me.

I deal mostly with Jeff Kane @ TrainTender and Portlines although sometimes I go to another vendor to find a part that is cheaper when I add shipping into the equation (Canada is stupid expensive to ship to). Funny story about a recent order though. I ordered (or at least tried to order) a couple reverse units from rishelam.com (https://rishelam.com/home/85-americ...-screw-tender-alco-reverse-unit-assemble.html) recently. The PayPal account used was frozen for 3 days and the order reversed. No idea why (vendor seemed to be reputable). The only reason I can see is that the name has the words American and War in it and somehow this triggered an alert). I will end up sourcing it elsewhere but haven't encountered this before.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Some info.

In 1967 lionel acquired the name (American flyer) and tooling from Gilbert. They did nothing with American flyer till 1979. They still own the name and tooling. Lionel has
done a lot in rolling stock. They have also made some engines. Lionel has made several
passenger sets. I have a few of these sets. Have not run them yet. They appear to be nice. The sets include 2 alco PA engines, one powered and one dummy, and 4 passenger
cars. After the sets were released they made some "add on" cars.
Port Lines sells a line of S rolling stock called S-Helper. Seems nice, not cheap. Another
company making and selling S gauge locomotives is American Models. Check them out
at americanmodels.com. MTH crept into S gauge in 2013. Some rolling stock but seems more into track. All of the above will do fine on old American flyer 2 rail track. Most run on
AC. This will give you some places to look for engines and rolling stock.

Jeff Kane is a great guy to get parts from. He is cheaper than most. He told me that is
because he does not take credit cards. That adds 3 to 4 % to a retailers cost.

On ebay check out afk5 for parts. Check out his store.

I am not the purist either. I am just a runner not a collector. I much prefer my lionel
transformer to my AF (12B) transformer. AF transformers go as low as 7 volts. My lionel
goes as low as 2 1/2 volts. I can creep these old flyers into the station instead of an abrupt stop. I am sure some of my old engines have the wrong screws in them and I sleep just fine at night.


I forgot to add this. The lionel passenger sets were made with the original tooling for engines and the passenger cars.
I think the lionel rolling stock is made from AF tooling, like the work caboose and crane.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Hey Mopac. I am interested on your thoughts about a Lionel transformer. Do you recommend one particular model? As much as I love my American Flyer locos, I miss the slow speed control.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, I really do not know that much about lionel transformers. I have a lionel ZW
transformer. It is the biggest and badest lionel made. It is close to the age of our flyers.
It is from the 50s, probably late 50s. About one month ago I bought a lionel set from a member on the O gauge forum. It came with a transformer. It is a CW80. Its the transformer that has come in lionel sets for the last few years. I have not tried it on flyers yet. Busy tomorrow but maybe Saturday I can try it and let you know what I think. There
is an older and a newer version of the CW80. From what I hear you do not want the older version. They had troubles and were not dependable. The guys on the O gauge forum do
not really care for the CW80. They like the vintage lionel transformers. The vintage ones are all serviceable. The CW80 is a throw away. Price does not vary that much between CW80 and vintage. I think flyernut uses the same as I do. A ZW. I bought mine this past summer for around 120.00.

Here is an article one guy wrote. Read it and then do some google on the others.
https://dfarq.homeip.net/lionel-cw-80-vs-vintage-transformers/

I have my new lionel set on a floor layout also. The CW80 seems nice for the O gauge engine. It runs slower than my flyers. It will really creep.

My lionel ZW has 4 throttles on it. When I build my S layout I hope to have 4 separate
loops. So I can run 4 trains at once from one transformer.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Lionel has made a new version of the ZW in last couple years. It is really cool. Has many meters for volts and amps. Only bad thing is its around 700.00. Too nice for me.

Its called ZW-L. Look it up.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

My new O engine has can motors. You will never get these old flyers with the open motors to run like an engine with a can motor.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I have quite a bit of transformers I use on my lay-out. I have a 30B flyer tranny for 2 of my flyer loops. I also use a Lionel ZW for 1 flyer loop and 1 O gauge loop. I use the inside throttles on the ZW for powering my street lights and houses. I use 2 8b's for my whistling billboards, and for my revolving beacon and my 8 bulb yard flood-light.. I also have a ZW in reserve as well as a VW, the ZW's little brother. I use a Lionel RW for my standard gauge set as that's what Dad bought when he needed a transformer. For a purist, use AF transformers, to just run your stuff, you can't beat a ZW. just be sure you have a quick blow circuit breaker in the ZW if you run the newer stuff with modern circuit boards, etc... I pick up my repo Flyer stuff mostly on ebay. Like MOPAC, I have a MP ABA set with 7 cars, all nos and never ran, and a NP ABBA set with 7 cars, also NOS and never ran. I like the repo passenger sets as it fills a niche for me, as I don't want to spend mega-bucks on the original sets.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

flyernut, do you think the lionel transformers can run the flyers at a slower speed?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> flyernut, do you think the lionel transformers can run the flyers at a slower speed?


No, I believe it's all about the motor.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The best and cheapest option I have found for running Gilbert engines slowly is the MRC DualPower O27. This is the one that has the tethered remote controls. The minimum voltage can be programmed to around 2V and the output is not a pure sine wave so the pulse like nature of the output helps the motors start turning at lower voltage. The downside is since the output is not a pure sine wave it does not play nice with the Gilbert air chime whistle built into some engines. The speaker must be disconnected or the whistle sounds constantly.
I have ZW-L's powering my permanent layout. One loop is configured as a single power district so I can run original Gilbert engines on it. The ZW-L works great as well but also is not a sine wave output so the same issue exists with any air chime whistles. The ZW-L is expensive as already pointed out.
I am not a fan of using postwar (or prewar) Lionel transformers for Gilbert trains. Many of these transformers will put more than 20V on the track and it is easy to melt illuminated cars or overheat engines at the higher settings. I am thinking kids running the trains, not ourselves. Gilbert engines were designed for 15V to 16V maximum.
The original question was about upgrading Gilbert engines for operating on layouts. There are several vendors that sell parts to upgrade Gilbert engines such as Can motors, half speed worm gears and electronic reversing units. There are people who will install these as well. The ultimate upgrade is to put in a can motor, TMCC, Railsounds 5 and cruise control. Then they run with the Legacy system and since full voltage is always on the track with Legacy they will smoke like crazy. Ed Goldin, Goldinhands.com does these upgrades. It is even possible to replace the smoke and choo choo unit with a modern fan driven smoke unit if cost is not important. If Railsounds 5 is added it provides the synchronized 4 chuffs/revolution choo choo sound so the original Gilbert chuffer is then not needed.
Have Fun!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for info AmFlyer. Congrats on having a ZW-L. That is one cool transformer. You
are right. My ZW will put out 20 volts. My AF 12B does 7-15 volts. I have never got near
full throttle with my ZW. Trains will leave the track near half throttle. I run all my trains
at slower speeds. To me that is more realistic. There is such a thing as scale speed.

flyernut, I will argue with you later. LOL.


I have many MRC transformers from HO. They are good reliable products. Never had one die on me.
I have a MRC sound system still new in box I need to try. Mainly for steam whistle and diesel horn.
Its not on board but still might work ok. Better than nothing.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyer said:


> The best and cheapest option I have found for running Gilbert engines slowly is the MRC DualPower O27. This is the one that has the tethered remote controls. The minimum voltage can be programmed to around 2V and the output is not a pure sine wave so the pulse like nature of the output helps the motors start turning at lower voltage. The downside is since the output is not a pure sine wave it does not play nice with the Gilbert air chime whistle built into some engines. The speaker must be disconnected or the whistle sounds constantly.
> I have ZW-L's powering my permanent layout. One loop is configured as a single power district so I can run original Gilbert engines on it. The ZW-L works great as well but also is not a sine wave output so the same issue exists with any air chime whistles. The ZW-L is expensive as already pointed out.
> I am not a fan of using postwar (or prewar) Lionel transformers for Gilbert trains. Many of these transformers will put more than 20V on the track and it is easy to melt illuminated cars or overheat engines at the higher settings. I am thinking kids running the trains, not ourselves. Gilbert engines were designed for 15V to 16V maximum.
> The original question was about upgrading Gilbert engines for operating on layouts. There are several vendors that sell parts to upgrade Gilbert engines such as Can motors, half speed worm gears and electronic reversing units. There are people who will install these as well. The ultimate upgrade is to put in a can motor, TMCC, Railsounds 5 and cruise control. Then they run with the Legacy system and since full voltage is always on the track with Legacy they will smoke like crazy. Ed Goldin, Goldinhands.com does these upgrades. It is even possible to replace the smoke and choo choo unit with a modern fan driven smoke unit if cost is not important. If Railsounds 5 is added it provides the synchronized 4 chuffs/revolution choo choo sound so the original Gilbert chuffer is then not needed.
> Have Fun!


Great info, thanks for sharing.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Thanks for info AmFlyer. Congrats on having a ZW-L. That is one cool transformer. You
> are right. My ZW will put out 20 volts. My AF 12B does 7-15 volts. I have never got near
> full throttle with my ZW. Trains will leave the track near half throttle. I run all my trains
> at slower speeds. To me that is more realistic. There is such a thing as scale speed.
> ...


Aw shucks, just when I thought we were going steady...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

flyernut, don't worry, you are still my AF guru. LOL.


Broke, I did a little research on the MRC dual power 027.
Very good reviews. 270 watts. That's some guts. It has a
retail price of 299.99. Model Train Stuff has it on sale for
179.99 but is out of stock at the moment. 2 tethered remotes is cool. My ZW is rated at 275 watts but that is probably spread over 4 throttles. The lionel CW80 is 80 watts. Not the greatest
reviews.

You guys have a great day. I am off to casino. They are giving me almost 200.00 in free slot play today.
Can't let that go to waste. Not taking any of my money today.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The ZW-L's really are at their best when integrated with the Legacy control system as they were designed to do. My ZW-L's are hidden under the layout since I never need to touch them, almost a waste. With Legacy and the LCS all I use is an iPad and an iPhone. The iPad operates all the turnouts, uncouplers, action cars, lights, track blocks and accessories. Just touch the icon on the track layout mimic on the screen. The iPhone runs the trains and powers up the power districts as needed. 
My Christmas layout uses the MRC O27 DualPower transformers. I think I will go run some trains and fill the layout room with smoke!


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> flyernut, don't worry, you are still my AF guru. LOL.
> 
> 
> Broke, I did a little research on the MRC dual power 027.
> ...


Thanks Mopac! I have sat back and thought about where I plan on going with my now 8 AF locos. As I said before, I am building a 5x9 ping pong layout. It will not be too spectacular because it is in my unheated garage. I wanted it to test my rebuilt engines. I don't want to invest more into transformers because I doubt that I will be doing much operating. I think that I will try to keep everything original also. Thanks all for the discussion on power packs! I have learned much. The MRC dual power 027 looks very good to me should I get more room for a larger layout. You guys on this forum are the greatest!:appl:


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## flyguy55 (Apr 20, 2015)

This is what a MRC Dual power looks like.....it is also for sale


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The remote cables are standard telephone so it is easy to use longer cables and multiple jacks around the layout. When the remote is unplugged the transformer output stays constant until the remote is plugged back in. It also has fixed 10V and 14V outputs. All the common terminals are tied together inside the transformer. It is surprisingly heavy.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

AmFlyer, thank you for the detailed explanation of all things with transformers. I'm not familiar with Lionel or MRC transformers but you have answered one question I had about one of your Christmas layouts that you posted pics of. Having seen the handhelds hanging on the layout pics I was curious what power you used. Question answered. I have had limited success slowing engines with a #15 rectifier and running DC only because the voltage output seems to drop about 3 volts at maximum throttle vs. AC but still have to deal with Air Chime noise. I'm happy letting them run as built and remind myself that some of these are older than me and not at all bad for what they are, old toys.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

On the Christmas layouts the transformer is under the layout since I have no need for routine access. I have plug in jacks for the remotes on both sides of the layout to make it easy for anyone in the room to control the trains.

Making smoke with the PRR Y3A on the layout this afternoon!


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Just fantastic Tom, that's a lot of smoke! Do you have a ventilation system of some kind and who's smoke fluid are you using? I use Super smoke mostly but also have tried Anormal and JT's Mega smoke. IMHO Super smoke smells closest to Gilbert's.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is Super Smoke, original Cedar scent for AF trains.
The train room is on the second floor of the house in a room that was originally a second master suite. If needed I can turn on the fan on the upstairs HVAC unit, the room will clear adequately fast and then the rest of the upstairs smells faintly like Gilbert steam engines. But there is nothing wrong with that! By myself I can run 5 trains on the layout with a low probability of accidents. More than that requires another operator. You can imagine the smoke and the great scent.
By the way, the track voltage on my layout is set to 13 volts so the original Gilbert illuminated cars do not get too hot. I did a lot of experimentation and found that the lower limit was 12.5V, caused by coupler misfiring at that point. In Legacy there is no increase in smoke production above about 10V due to the voltage control system feeding the smoke units in Lionel Flyer engines. I found no increase in pulling power raising the voltage above 13V. With Lionel O gauge engines there are other considerations that make 18V optimum.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Thanks for the answer. I agree about the Super Smoke scent. It triggers great memories along with the choo choo sound. I'm in a spare bedroom so limited in size (8x6 1/2) but keep the door closed due to wife's feline friend but she doesn't mind the smell either.I did post some pics in the Show what's new on your roster thread in "S" but the layout hasn't progressed much because of the usual, trying to fit too much stuff in too small a space.


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## LoveTrains (Dec 15, 2013)

*American Flyer Parts*

If you need parts the go to guy is Doug Peck in Massachusetts.He may be on Facebook ,I am away from my home desk at present and do not have detailed info for him.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

LoveTrains said:


> If you need parts the go to guy is Doug Peck in Massachusetts.He may be on Facebook ,I am away from my home desk at present and do not have detailed info for him.


He is very helpful and has many parts. Jeff at the Train Tender (http://ttender.com/)


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