# Flushing & Brooklyn Rail Road



## Single Driver Steam

Hey all, as recommended by a member in my newbie post, I’m starting a thread here dedicated to the progress of my upcoming layout over time. I’ll start out with some basic information on the railroad I wish to create.


*Title:* The Flushing & Brooklyn Rail Road Company
*Theme:* Antebellum period
*Scale:* HO
*Layout Size:* Micro -- 3’x6’ of space allotted 
*Year:* 1838
*Prototype:* Freelance
*Region:* Queens County, New York
*Reporting Mark:* F&B
*Purpose:* To provide Flushing village with steam powered railroad service to New York City. 
*Motive Power: * 

(2) Norris 4-2-0 locomotives (Bachmann Pegasus and Prussia)

(1) Robert Stephenson “Sampson” class (Bachmann John Bull. Might remove pilot truck to look like a generic English product and less like the famous Camden and Amboy engine)
*Rolling Stock: *

(5) four wheel coaches 

(3) eight wheel bogie truck passenger cars 
*Terminal:* Flushing village
*Traffic:* Passengers for now. Future freight in the form of agricultural products Westbound to New York City, Eastbound manure trains hauling collected droppings of the horses plying New York and Brooklyn streets to Flushing (fertilizer for surrounding farmland).




I posted this micro track plan in my other thread that I really like, though I'm going to reconfigure it to suit my needs and taste:










I found this beginner layout online that I think is a good visual representation of what I am trying to achieve (albeit in a smaller space). Something simple, can be mastered by an amateur with enough practice and patience, and allows for greater detailing over time: 









http://www.scenicmodelrailways.com/page_2408935.html



I'm thankful there is a platform like this forum where one can seek advice from pros and showcase their work. I'm looking forward to advancing this thread, I'll have so many questions along the way.


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## MtRR75

I have several of those Bachmann 1830s trains -- mostly for historic reasons. I tried running them on my HO layout, and I found that they usually stop on the turnouts. The wheelbase is so short on these locos that both pick-up wheels end up on the plastic frog at the same time.

You will need to address this issue on your layout. I know that you can get turnouts that have powered frogs, but I don't know anything about them. Somebody else will likely chime in with advice on this problem.

As for me, I plan on setting up a separate loop track with no turnouts for these trains.

P.S. Now I understand your username.

P.P.S. You will have no problems with 15" curves with these trains.


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## Brakeman Jake

Have you considered N scale?You can't do much on a 3X6,even in N scale.


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## MtRR75

Brakeman Jake said:


> Have you considered N scale?You can't do much on a 3X6,even in N scale.


Single Driver Steam wants to model the 1830s. Are there any 1830s trains available in N-scale?

Actually, the 1830s trains are so small that using them on a 3' x 6' layout is about analogous to using early 1900s trains on a 4' x 8' layout.

Cool idea. I look forward to seeing it develop.


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## Brakeman Jake

Good point indeed,N scale models availability isn't even close to what you can find in HO.The problem is even worse if you want to run DCC.

However,based on my own experience with a 3X4 N scale layout I've tested,having a train constantly lapping an oval gets boring in no time,but that's me.....


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## Gramps

I'm very interested in this thread. I'm originally from New York and I went to high school in Flushing. I rode the LIRR into Brooklyn & Manhattan many times. I will have to do some searches to identify the type of 1830's locos and rolling stock you are describing. As an FYI to non-New Yorkers, prior to 1898 Brooklyn & New York were separate cities.


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## Gramps

How are things progressing on your railroad? You've picked a very different prototype to model. Good luck.


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## Cycleops

MtRR75 said:


> You will need to address this issue on your layout. I know that you can get turnouts that have powered frogs, but I don't know anything about them. Somebody else will likely chime in with advice on this problem.


Electrofrog turnouts from Peco would solve this but would likely be too long with too large a radius for your size layout. Unfortunately the tighter Setrack turnouts are not made in live frog configuration. You could download the templates from Peco's site to see if they do fit.


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## Single Driver Steam

Hey all, progress on this layout will be very slow due to my erractic work schedule. Because I will be out of town on business for over a month, I set up a very rudimentary oval on two 3x3 plywood boards placed side by side atop a 6 foot folding table. At least this way I can run the trains occasionally instead of letting them sit in a bin while I dream of the finished product. 











So here’s my motive power and rolling stock for now. I have so many different modeling facets to tackle that I will create topic questions as I go along pertaining to each. 


The first is my personal favorite; the Bachmann Prussia with 3 of my 5 four-wheel coaches. This engine was purchased as a stand-alone and runs like a dream. Quiet, smooth starts and stops, can easily maintain prototype speed of 15-25mph. 










The second is the Bachmann Pegasus. I bought this one on eBay as a starter set and unfortunately it does not run properly. I love the detailing and color of the engine, but it constantly jerks and can only run at high speed. I will need to either tinker with this (if possible) or will need to replace. 










The third is the Bachmann John Bull. Runs well, maintains good prototype speed...but man is it LOUD. The motor is contained in the tender enclosure while the engine is nothing more than a dummy. I really like this loco and plan to customize it (may remove the pilot and headlight to give it a fresh British import look), but I want to find a way to make it run quietly. Behind it are 3 red eight wheel passenger cars that came with the Pegasus set.










So that's about it for now. I hope to collaborate with my fellow forum modelers to make my ultimate vision become a reality.


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## Gramps

Thanks for the update. That's interesting rolling stock that I'm not very familiar with.


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## jlc41

I agree with Gramps, being a former New Yorker myself. (I used to go skating at flushing Meadows, the former site of the World Expo) interesting trains to say the lest, I like it. Looking forward to see it materialize.


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## MtRR75

Single Driver Steam said:


> The second is the Bachmann Pegasus. I bought this one on eBay as a starter set and unfortunately it does not run properly. I love the detailing and color of the engine, but it constantly jerks and can only run at high speed. I will need to either tinker with this (if possible) or will need to replace.


I have the Bachmann John Bull, Dewitt Clinton and Lafayette, all bought used (or new old stock). Initially all three of mine ran a little jerky.

I found that these locos need near perfect track. After I got my track set up, I carefully filed the junctions that were not smooth. I have now numbered all of the joints so that the track segments will go back together in the same order each time that I set up the layout. I also cleaned the track (and the loco wheels) thoroughly.

My John Bull also had burrs on the drive wheels -- from some kind of abuse. I carefully filed them off. Now it runs smoothly. The other two run better with the Improved track, but they still have a few issues.

If your running issues usually occur in the same places on the track, you probably have a track problem. The track could also be slightly warped, which might cause a pick-up wheel to lose contact with the track.


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## Single Driver Steam

MtRR75 said:


> I have the Bachmann John Bull, Dewitt Clinton and Lafayette, all bought used (or new old stock). Initially all three of mine ran a little jerky.
> 
> I found that these locos need near perfect track. After I got my track set up, I carefully filed the junctions that were not smooth. I have now numbered all of the joints so that the track segments will go back together in the same order each time that I set up the layout. I also cleaned the track (and the loco wheels) thoroughly.
> 
> My John Bull also had burrs on the drive wheels -- from some kind of abuse. I carefully filed them off. Now it runs smoothly. The other two run better with the Improved track, but they still have a few issues.
> 
> If your running issues usually occur in the same places on the track, you probably have a track problem. The track could also be slightly warped, which might cause a pick-up wheel to lose contact with the track.



I definitely noticed how temperamental these engines are with elevation. The track has to be pretty flat, even the slightest .50% grade will make them crawl. Luckily I don't care to model any grades and it is fairly prototypical for the diminutive engines anyway, so the perfectly level track doesn't really bother me. 

The Prussia I own has no issue running, it's silent and smooth and can operate at very low speed. Even the John Bull runs well, it's just incredibly loud for whatever reason. My Pegasus is the problem, it is consistently jerky and cannot operate at normal speed. I might take a video of it and post it here for informed opinions.


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## Single Driver Steam

So I finally got around to taking videos of my three engines running to show how they all match up.


The first is of the best running: the Prussia. This engine runs near perfect; smooth, silent, and reliable.






The second is of the John Bull: This engine runs nicely but is very loud. I am wondering if there is some possible way I could muffle the noise coming from the tender motor without reducing its performance, or if this is just something I have to live with. 






And here is the most unruly of the three, my Pegasus. It runs so poorly yet I really like its overall appearance and want to keep it on the roster. Would any member here recognize the problem with this engine based on its performance in the video? How would I fix it if it could even be done?


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## MtRR75

Well, we know it's not not a track problem.

If you have not already done so, clean the wheels

I had the same problem with my John Bull. I was able to remove the tender shell (where the motor is) and clean and lube it so that it ran smoother and quieter. Each of these locos was built a little differently, and I don't have a Pegasus. You may be able to remove the shell and clean and lube the gears. Just be sure to use an oil specific for plastic models. Other oils might damage the plastic parts.


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## Gramps

Thanks for the update and good luck with the Pegasus.


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## MtRR75

MtRR75 said:


> I don't have a Pegasus.


Well.... I do now. I bought one earlier this week and it came today.

And.... It runs worse than yours. It barely ran at all – even with nudging.

BUT.... After working on it for about an hour and a half, I've got it running very smoothly -- even at low speeds.

So.... Here's what I did.... You will need a very tiny Phillips screwdriver, a pair of forceps, a light-weight oil that will not affect plastic parts (I used Labelle #107), a heavier oil that also will not affect plastic parts (I used Labelle #102), and some very fine sandpaper (I used 600 grit, but probably anything from 400 to 800 would work fine). A foam cradle is also very useful for working on the loco upside down, while not damaging delicate parts.

The Pegasus is very different from the John Bull. The John Bull has the motor in the tender -- the loco is just along for the ride. The tender wheels serve as both pick-up wheels and drive wheels.

In the Pegasus, the motor is in the loco. It drives the 2 large drive wheels. The pick-up wheels are the four tender wheels.

(1) I cleaned the wheels. I use Goo Gone and a Q-tip. But alcohol will work. It ran a LITTLE better, but still much worse than yours. (Also make sure that your track is clean.)

(2) I turned the loco over and put a drop of Labelle #102 on the exposed black plastic gear, and also on the worm gear that is attached to the motor (you can see part of it up inside the loco). I put single drops of Labelle #107 on each end of the drive axle, on the points where the drive rods are attached to the drive wheels, and on the sliding mechanism where the drove rod meets the cylinders. I ran it again. Initially it ran a little better than before but still not as good as yours. But as I ran it back and forth, it began to run at the correct speed – for brief moments – presumably as the oil worked its way around all of the gears. Now it ran about the same as yours.

(3) As I played with it, I realized that the problem seemed to be due to erratic pick-up from the track’s power. The electrical pick-ups are tiny strips of brass that are attached to the sides of the front truck and which rub on the inside face of the wheels. I guessed that the brass pick-ups were not making good contact with the front truck wheels. When I nudged the loco’s front end sideways, sometimes it suddenly started running near normal speed. So I did the following:

--(a) I turned the loco over and lightly sanded the insides of the wheels with 600 grid sandpaper -- to remove some light corrosion there.

--(b) Then, I removed the tiny screw that holds the front truck in place. Watch out for a tiny washer under the screw that is easy to lose. The truck was now free, other than the wires carrying the power to the motor. At this point, make sure that you know which way the truck is sitting – i.e. which end of the axles have the plastic insulators on them. The truck has to go back in the same orientation. (The wires will help keep it in the right configuration, but make a note of it to be sure.)

(c) Next, I turned the truck over. This exposes the electrical pick-ups, which rub against the inside face of the wheels. I took a tiny piece of the 600 grit sandpaper and slid it back and forth a few times between the each pick-up and wheel (adding a little pressure). Make sure that the grit side is facing the brass pick-up. This will clean away any corrosion there.

(d) Then, I took forceps and carefully bent each pick-up so that it was making good contact with the inside of the wheel. There is quite a bit of lateral play in the wheels. So push each wheel as far from the truck as it can go, then bend the pick-up so as to maintain contact.

(e) Last, I put a drop of Labelle #102 on each pick-up to wheel contact point. This minimizes friction and corrosion at the contact point. It does not interfere with electrical contact.

I flipped the front truck back over and reattached it with the washer and screw. Now it runs perfectly – even at slow speeds.

See if this procedure will fix what ails your Pegasus.


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## Single Driver Steam

MtRR75 said:


> Well.... I do now. I bought one earlier this week and it came today.
> 
> And.... It runs worse than yours. It barely ran at all – even with nudging.
> 
> BUT.... After working on it for about an hour and a half, I've got it running very smoothly -- even at low speeds.
> 
> So.... Here's what I did.... You will need a very tiny Phillips screwdriver, a pair of forceps, a light-weight oil that will not affect plastic parts (I used Labelle #107), a heavier oil that also will not affect plastic parts (I used Labelle #102), and some very fine sandpaper (I used 600 grit, but probably anything from 400 to 800 would work fine). A foam cradle is also very useful for working on the loco upside down, while not damaging delicate parts.
> 
> The Pegasus is very different from the John Bull. The John Bull has the motor in the tender -- the loco is just along for the ride. The tender wheels serve as both pick-up wheels and drive wheels.
> 
> In the Pegasus, the motor is in the loco. It drives the 2 large drive wheels. The pick-up wheels are the four tender wheels.
> 
> (1) I cleaned the wheels. I use Goo Gone and a Q-tip. But alcohol will work. It ran a LITTLE better, but still much worse than yours. (Also make sure that your track is clean.)
> 
> (2) I turned the loco over and put a drop of Labelle #102 on the exposed black plastic gear, and also on the worm gear that is attached to the motor (you can see part of it up inside the loco). I put single drops of Labelle #107 on each end of the drive axle, on the points where the drive rods are attached to the drive wheels, and on the sliding mechanism where the drove rod meets the cylinders. I ran it again. Initially it ran a little better than before but still not as good as yours. But as I ran it back and forth, it began to run at the correct speed – for brief moments – presumably as the oil worked its way around all of the gears. Now it ran about the same as yours.
> 
> (3) As I played with it, I realized that the problem seemed to be due to erratic pick-up from the track’s power. The electrical pick-ups are tiny strips of brass that are attached to the sides of the front truck and which rub on the inside face of the wheels. I guessed that the brass pick-ups were not making good contact with the front truck wheels. When I nudged the loco’s front end sideways, sometimes it suddenly started running near normal speed. So I did the following:
> 
> --(a) I turned the loco over and lightly sanded the insides of the wheels with 600 grid sandpaper -- to remove some light corrosion there.
> 
> --(b) Then, I removed the tiny screw that holds the front truck in place. Watch out for a tiny washer under the screw that is easy to lose. The truck was now free, other than the wires carrying the power to the motor. At this point, make sure that you know which way the truck is sitting – i.e. which end of the axles have the plastic insulators on them. The truck has to go back in the same orientation. (The wires will help keep it in the right configuration, but make a note of it to be sure.)
> 
> (c) Next, I turned the truck over. This exposes the electrical pick-ups, which rub against the inside face of the wheels. I took a tiny piece of the 600 grit sandpaper and slid it back and forth a few times between the each pick-up and wheel (adding a little pressure). Make sure that the grit side is facing the brass pick-up. This will clean away any corrosion there.
> 
> (d) Then, I took forceps and carefully bent each pick-up so that it was making good contact with the inside of the wheel. There is quite a bit of lateral play in the wheels. So push each wheel as far from the truck as it can go, then bend the pick-up so as to maintain contact.
> 
> (e) Last, I put a drop of Labelle #102 on each pick-up to wheel contact point. This minimizes friction and corrosion at the contact point. It does not interfere with electrical contact.
> 
> I flipped the front truck back over and reattached it with the washer and screw. Now it runs perfectly – even at slow speeds.
> 
> See if this procedure will fix what ails your Pegasus.



This is incredibly insightful. Thank you very much for the detailed recommendations MtRR75, I'm glad to know that my Pegasus problem may be treatable. 

I happened to look at the undersides recently with some extra light and noticed the driver "tires" are dirtier than I thought. I'll be sure to clean them off, then go down your checklist.


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## MtRR75

Single Driver Steam said:


> I happened to look at the undersides recently with some extra light and noticed the driver "tires" are dirtier than I thought. I'll be sure to clean them off, then go down your checklist.


Be sure that you clean out the inside corner formed by the wheel rim and the flange. On my Pegasus, the black gunk in that area was very resilient. I had to resort to a track eraser to get all of it out. My Pegasus would not run reliably until all of it was gone.


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## Single Driver Steam

So after spending some time away from home, I finally sat down and cleaned the tracks and trains of the future Flushing & Brooklyn Rail Road. I also spent some time working on my trouble engine, Pegasus, based on the very thorough advice of MtRR75 after they experienced the same running issues of their same Pegasus model.


Unfortunately I am still having trouble with the engine. It's not as bad as it was before but it still does not run properly. Here are some photos to put things in context:


Here is the undercarriage of the 4-2-0 Pegasus.









Here is the truck removed. Power is drawn from electrical pickup in the lead truck and transferred to the geared single drive wheels. 









Two brass electrical pickups run along the top portion of the bogie wheels as MtRR75 mentioned earlier in the thread. They were originally much straighter but did not make good contact with the wheels, so as recommended after cleaning the tires, I bent the brass pickups to make contact with the wheels even when they move laterally (there is some slack here). I then added some oil to the surface where the contact is made. 











So after all is said and done, is there an issue with the way I bent the brass pickups? It is admittedly quite difficult to do given the very small size of the equipment. I also neglected using any sand paper on the wheels as suggested, but I didn't find any signs of corrosion and didn't have the sand paper required for such a small wheel set.


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## Single Driver Steam

Hi all, it’s been quite a while since I posted here, but after adjusting to a new job in the past year (with greater leisure time for modeling!) I’m ready to dive back into my Flushing & Brooklyn layout. Since my last post, I've scoured model railroad books and tutorial videos to learn as much as I can. Being someone who hates redoing things, I decided to work on some practice “dioramas” before I put the real work into my layout to apply some of the things I've tried to learn. 

I went out and bought a few 2x2 foam pieces, woodland scenics products, some paint, and plenty of supplies so I can try my hand at some basic scenery. The result is this small rural scene, depicted in the following collection of photos. There is barely any detail to this diorama, or items of interest. As this is my first ever model creation, I wanted this to be as simple as possible so I can get some kind of hands-on experience (without the frustration of doing things over). Also makes for a great mockup of how I may wish to model my layout.
















(had to sneak our doggie into the shot)


























































I’m very happy with the result, though I already know what I want to do differently. Although the EZ track I've acquired over the years doesn't look bad with ballasting, IMO it just looks too “modern” for what I’m trying to achieve. The truth is, there was no standardization in the 1830’s for railroad construction and so track structure from company to company was often wildly different. I could technically get away with this track, however I don’t like how high the roadbed sits and the general appearance of the ballast, which to my eye feels modern. 

I will probably end up ditching my EZ track and investing in code 80 flex track and some cork roadbed. I bough a short segment and compared it to my EZ track, confirming what I initially thought: the cork roadbed sits lower to the ground, which to my eye looks appropriate. I also purchased some larger ballast, as I want my track to look similar to this on the Allegheny Portage Railroad: 










I will be sure to try using the new track, roadbed, and ballast combination on the next diorama. As my layout will depict the small town of Flushing with custom buildings, I will need to learn some scratch building techniques. I think I'll give this a try and add it to the next 2x2 https://www.nmra.org/beginner/scratch-build-small-structure.

I'll be posting updates including the next diorama in the coming weeks (the snow here in the Northeast US hasn't left us quite yet, so lots of time indoors!), any thoughts or input on my practice project here is greatly appreciated.


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## Nikola

SDS, I really like what you are doing here. Definitely use flex track and maybe without the cork roadbed. You can remove every other tie and play with the spacing to make it seem less modern. Also, check out my Tiny HO Layout thread. I am barely started but we are thinking alike. I am on the road and doing this in my temporary housing.


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## Magic

Nikola has a good suggestion there, might even look at using N gauge cork roadbed.
Lower profile will look even older.

It takes three pieces to make HO gauge roadbed.
What I did was use one full piece and for the center I cut off the bevel 
on a third piece, came out pretty good.

The inside track is a passing siding with code 83 on N gauge roadbed.
Outside is code 100 mainline on HO roadbed.








Your scenery work looks very good, nice work.
Love that little loco.

Magic


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## Gramps

Looks good, welcome back.:thumbsup:


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## AmtrackJim

I was impressed with the ballast and landscaping using EZ track. 
How did you do the ballast?


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## Single Driver Steam

AmtrackJim said:


> I was impressed with the ballast and landscaping using EZ track.
> How did you do the ballast?


Thank you! It was a fairly easy process, I painted the entire track with a flat brown paint, rails ties and all. Once that paint was down, I ran a rubber compound over the rails to expose the surface. Using the wet paint as an adhesive I just poured some fine ballast over the track, tamped it into place, then shaped it with a small brush. Finally I just sprayed copious amounts of scenic cement to glue it all into place (I may try a glue/water mixture for scenery on the next diorama as the scenic cement didn't seem to hold as strongly as I'd like).


Nikola - as a fellow NY'er I can appreciate the necessity to keep modeling small, compact, and above all portable! Great idea about removing every other tie to help achieve an older look


Magic - I'm going to keep the N scale cork idea in my back pocket! I already have standard HO cork purchased for the next practice diorama, but if I'm not satisfied with the track profile I have another solution. 


Gramps - Thank you for the welcome, feels good to be back and to actually have some work under my belt!


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## Nikola

Single Driver Steam said:


> Nikola - as a fellow NY'er I can appreciate the necessity to keep modeling small, compact, and above all portable! Great idea about removing every other tie to help achieve an older look


Thank you, and agree!!!

I cannot take credit for that tie hack. Check out the Moose Jaws thread.

(Mine is the Hudson Valley Rwy - a rural electric interurban line. Perhaps a mainline that passes though eventually links to the F & B.) Hmm as New Yorker, effinbee has a connotation......


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## Single Driver Steam

Still no major progress towards building the actual layout, though I have added a few details.

First I would like to get a few recommendations. Here's the full view of my baseboard and train table with my current rolling stock, tools, and the diorama I created to test the waters. 









The baseboard sits atop a 2'x5' metal folding table and I plan to keep it that way as I want this layout to be as simple and as mobile as possible should I move in the future. Plus I have zero interest in building elaborate benchwork when this table should fully support the weight of the HO layout. That being said, because the table is one foot smaller on each side, the baseboard extends beyond the top surface. 









This side view more clearly demonstrates the overhang. I believe over time the baseboard could eventually sag and create instability. Would some type of wooden bracing help my situation? I'm also wondering how to keep the layout from shifting on the table top without nailing it down.









While I decide on the best way forward for the layout's "benchwork", I performed some minor artistic detailing work. First I went ahead and altered my Bachmann John Bull to look more like a generic British import than the famed Smithsonian engine. I removed the leading pilot truck (the frame is made of flimsy plastic, so I managed to bend it away from the extended lead driving axle which held it in place) then used an ordinary scissor to snip off the headlight mounting brackets. 









I really like the final result, however I'm still not satisfied with that very distinctive tender housing. Unfortunately, the motor is entirely encased in that tender, so I wouldn't know how to modify without changing the motor. 









Finally I started painting some of the Victorian figures I purchased for my layout. 









I really enjoyed this process as I like to have as much creative control over my HO universe as possible. That being said, I'm a bit concerned about the chosen paint. I used acrylic paint for these metallic figures which looks completely fine, though I'm concerned the paint may chip away over time. Perhaps a different type of paint will more effectively adhere to the metallic surface? 









Will also have to perfect my painting skills as I believe the close-ups reveal them to be a bit crude!



As always, comments, thoughts, and suggestions are very greatly appreciated!


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## Nikola

The edges will not sag but if you want to be sure get some flat molding from the lumber yard. Like 1/2 x 1 1/2 or whatever. Glue and brads into the edge of the plywood. The vertical section will prevent any sagging ever. Install 'up' as a fence or guard and 'down' to hide the underneath.

To prevent the plywood from shifting, glue or screw a few small blocks underneath that sit against the edges of the table. Four should do - in the middle of each edge of the table.

You did an awesome job with the diorama!


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## CHOO-CHOO MIKE

Nice work !
I was born in Flushing hospital .
Lets Go Mets !


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## Scotie

If your figures are metal it might be best to first spray them with a grey primer for metal as an undercoat.
Road bed in those days probably was just ties and rails lair on the dirt with minimal if any ballast. You might consider using the smallest code rail you find workable and lay it directly on your foam. Add a mixture of dirt and ballast.
As for the pickup issue as a last resort you could wire jumpers from the first car to the engine giving a longer effective pickup base, better for your switches.
Amazingly there are many photos of this period on LI. Ziel's book Steel Rails to the Sunrise includes several and is easy to obtain.
Keep up the great work.


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## Single Driver Steam

Thanks for the suggestions Nikola and Scotie. (Choo-Choo Mike, we can see the lights and top section of Citi Field in the distance from our bedroom window! Makes great viewing on 4th of July and during any concerts where they use fireworks)

Nikola, great idea about simple blocks of wood or screws underneath the baseboard to “lock it” in position atop the folding table. It’s so simple yet so effective. As for the molding, would that have to be installed with one half above the baseboard and one half below around the edges? I’m planning to avoid any elevated guard around the edge of the layout as I do not want to restrict viewing. Could the molding be installed so that it is fully below the baseboard and still achieve the same effect of preventing possible sag? My knowledge and experience with woodwork is limited to non-existent.


Scotie, I went out and bought some acrylic gesso primer hoping to use this for a first coat on remaining figures. I perhaps should have done some more research on this type of primer as there is some debate online as to whether or not it is suitable for metal surfaces. As for laying the tracks directly onto the foam, I’m seriously considering that for the layout though I know some folks claim it amplifies the sounds of the trains as they operate. Not sure how big of an issue that is if at all. 

I think I’ll pick up that book Steel Rails to the Sunrise in the future as I’m looking for as much inspiratory photos and images as possible of this time period. Especially if there are illustrations of Long Island railroading in the early 1800s. So far I’m using the following images for the look of Flushing Village and the scenery I intend to depict.




























Most of the layout will be a village scene, though I want to add a bit of water and coastline at one edge to suggest the larger Flushing Bay. Could also provide a freight source with a small transload dock and siding off the "mainline" oval.


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## Scotie

There was (long abandoned) the Whitestone Branch which ended in a pier on the Sound. The first stop on the branch was Bridge St Flushing. The branch to Great Neck had a stop on Main St and the stop before that was Whitestone Jct. You would be one of the few modeling this in a period when it actually existed.
I'll rummage around my piles of LIRR materials and see if I can find any other information for you.
For priming the metal figures I would get a spray can of the cheapest metal primer you can find at a hardware store, doesn't need to be a good outdoor rust preventative for your needs.
Keep posting love what your doing. When I was seriously working on modeling the LIRR I chose 1926 as the G-5's had arrived but the camelbacks still ran, an interesting period.


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## Gramps

I'm enjoying this thread. I worked in Flushing for several years. There is a Bowne House Historical Society and they may have some information and photos you could use.


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## Scotie

A very interesting read on your area of interest (but very hard to find and pricey) is 
The Long Island Rail Road, a Comprehensive History - Part 2: The Flushing, North Shore & Central Railroad (1963) by Vincent F. Seyfried. He wrote a multivolume history of the LIRR thaat goes for about $1000 a set if you can find it. Check the wikipedia entery on him.


----------



## Nikola

Single Driver Steam said:


> Nikola, great idea about simple blocks of wood or screws underneath the baseboard to “lock it” in position atop the folding table. It’s so simple yet so effective. As for the molding, would that have to be installed with one half above the baseboard and one half below around the edges? I’m planning to avoid any elevated guard around the edge of the layout as I do not want to restrict viewing. Could the molding be installed so that it is fully below the baseboard and still achieve the same effect of preventing possible sag? My knowledge and experience with woodwork is limited to non-existent.


The edging can be all up, all down, or split the difference. Your choice and it will work equally well regardless.



Scotie said:


> There was (long abandoned) the Whitestone Branch which ended in a pier on the Sound. The first stop on the branch was Bridge St Flushing. The branch to Great Neck had a stop on Main St and the stop before that was Whitestone Jct. You would be one of the few modeling this in a period when it actually existed.


The Cross-Island Parkway between the Throggs Neck and Whitestone bridges runs atop an abandoned right of way. Could that be the same line you mention?


----------



## Single Driver Steam

Gramps said:


> I'm enjoying this thread. I worked in Flushing for several years. There is a Bowne House Historical Society and they may have some information and photos you could use.


Funny you mention, I've performed volunteer work at the Queens Historical Society which is located at the historic Kingsland Homestead, just across the street from the Bowne House. 

Aside from the personal connection, I wish to eventually add both structures into my layout as they were both standing in Flushing during the year I'm depicting, 1838.

For those who may not be familiar with the two buildings mentioned:

*The John Bowne House*











*The Kingsland Homestead*











Scotie - I have read historical accounts on the Flushing & North Side RR (might actually have been excerpts from the LI RR Seyfried publication) which have helped provide inspiration and insight into what Flushing and LI railroading was like before the Civil War. I've also used an obscure book about antebellum Flushing written by a local historian as a source of inspiration, though I am freelancing and in my world Flushing is a larger community in the year 1838 than in reality, spurring the need for a "new fangled rail road".


----------



## Southern

I like the work that you are doing, It is coming along nicely.


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## Scotie

As many folks say when a question is posed "google is your friend" http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/whitestone/whitestone.htm

Be sure to check out other pages on this site, a mind blowing amount of LIRR info of all kinds.


----------



## Gramps

I'm curious why you picked 1838 as a time frame as opposed to a wider frame like late 1830's to early 1840's which is typical of how most folks model.


----------



## Single Driver Steam

Gramps said:


> I'm curious why you picked 1838 as a time frame as opposed to a wider frame like late 1830's to early 1840's which is typical of how most folks model.


Well I knew I wanted to model the first decade of railroading which would be the 1830's, and I preferred the later part of the decade as the 4-2-0 was the well established national engine by that time, which would justify having more of that type on my layout (it's not only a personal preference but Bachmann produces more variety in that arrangement). 

I became a bit more specific with the year as I created a little backstory to my railroad. The company is formed as a result of being left off the Long Island Railroad mainline running from Brooklyn to Jamaica (constructed after 1834 and opened for service in 1836 between those two towns). In my universe, Flushing is a larger community in the 1830s than it was in reality, so the town requested a branch from the LIRR to their community. That company, more interested in completing the mainline to Greenport, does not have the money or interest in constructing this proposed branch. Local merchants band together very quickly in 1836 and build the F&B railroad to connect to the Brooklyn waterfront, sharing a terminal with the LIRR at South Ferry on Atlantic Ave. 

So I chose 1838 as I'm planning to depict the railroad shortly after it first opens, maybe a few months following the inaugural run. That being said, as the layout is still in its early stages, I'm not 100% beholden to that specific year.


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## Nikola

OP, are you talking about February 1838 or more like October 1838?


Just kidding.


I think what you are doing is awesome.


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## Gramps

SDS,
You have really researched the theme for your layout. I knew the LIRR had a terminal on the Brooklyn waterfront years ago but I never knew it was originally called South Ferry. Thanks for sharing.


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## Single Driver Steam

It’s been months since making any progress towards my layout, so now that the holidays have ended and the Northeast winter hibernation sets in, I thought I’d dive back in. I knew I wanted to create another practice diorama with my new code 83 Atlas track and period authentic superstructure. I created this little scene to perfect my scenery detailing from the last 3x3 diorama and this time add a dirt road with wagon wheels. I think this very closely matches what I've always visualized achieving on the layout.

























I’m even happier with how my second go turned out. I filled the gauge with fine red ballast to simulate the horse path that would so often be found on 1830s railroads (crossties were often non-existent with rails or wood stringers seated on wooden blocks. The railroads that did use crossties covered them with Earth or very finely crushed gravel to “Macadamize” a path for horses as locomotives were expected to fail) and added a bit of fine gray ballast on the outside edges to add some depth. 

















The tracks rest on no roadbed, they were placed directly atop the foam core base after that was coated with a layer of brown acrylic paint. The paint helped act as an adhesive with the additional glued scenic details helping keep the tracks in place. I think for the layout I’ll also add nails to the tracks for extra security. 

























The dirt road was very easily created using Woodland scenics earth blend lightly dusted over the brown paint. I added wagon ruts by rolling a DeWitt Clinton engine that I only purchased for the tender back and forth over the road with varying thickness/direction. I think the process I followed to create this diorama will work well for the full size layout, I don’t think another practice will be required. 









One thing I noticed from this practice, I really liked the appearance and texture of the gravel and dirt road before being soaked with scenic cement. While it doesn’t look bad afterwards, I’d much prefer its drier look. Any recommendations to glue down the ballast/dirt/earth features without the texture changing after the glue soak?


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## tjcruiser

You've got me sold. Very realistic / convincing results. Time to move on to the big leagues! Enjoy!

TJ


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## Magic

That is one fine looking scene, very good workmanship there.

Magic


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## jlc41

That is some very nice and detailed work, kudos to you.

Joe


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## Stumpy

Very nice! I think you're ready to roll.


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## Gramps

Great detail, I'm looking forward to your progress.


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## Guest

The scene you've created looks great. Outstanding work!


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## Chops

Wow, this is amazing work. First, I love the simplicity of your layout. I like simple things because they tend to work better. So often I have painted myself into a corner by trying to do too much in too small a space, and you have neatly side stepped that trap. 

Second, your use of visual curves both in the track and the leading lines has a visually pleasant and impressive look. It makes the layout look more plausible because the curves break up the harsh 90 degree angles. 

Third, who in the heck models first generation steam? That is brilliant. I am working on a first gen steam micro layout, soon, using the John Bull. Fortunately, it is a reliable runner, unlike many of the other versions of first gen steam put out by the same manufacturer. 

Trix made some first gen steam, a bit like the single wheeler you posted, but Prussian, I think. I own one Trix OO piece for a British layout, and it is a magnificent piece of engineering. Wish all model locos were built to that standard. 

As to your thread, this is one I'll be following closely, and I will be copying your techniques shamelessly.

Mmm, one personal experience, we used Goo Gone at the Club layout a few years ago. It took ages to strip off the sticky residue
that it laid down. Whatever this stuff has going for it, it was very problematic for rail cleaning. I suspect the noisiness is dry gears, 
but could be a number of things. I believe you posted to the effect that you did a little remedial greasing.


----------



## Nikola

OP, absolutely amazing! Impressive at every level.

I wonder if misting hair spray would work? Initially apply very sparingly and dry so that the aerosol does not blow the ground cover around. Add coats and you should achieve a perfectly 'loose' final result that stays in place.


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## Gramps

Great stuff and as someone posted you are modeling a very unique era. :thumbsup:


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## Single Driver Steam

Chops said:


> Wow, this is amazing work. First, I love the simplicity of your layout. I like simple things because they tend to work better. So often I have painted myself into a corner by trying to do too much in too small a space, and you have neatly side stepped that trap.
> 
> Second, your use of visual curves both in the track and the leading lines has a visually pleasant and impressive look. It makes the layout look more plausible because the curves break up the harsh 90 degree angles.
> 
> Third, who in the heck models first generation steam? That is brilliant. I am working on a first gen steam micro layout, soon, using the John Bull. Fortunately, it is a reliable runner, unlike many of the other versions of first gen steam put out by the same manufacturer.
> 
> Trix made some first gen steam, a bit like the single wheeler you posted, but Prussian, I think. I own one Trix OO piece for a British layout, and it is a magnificent piece of engineering. Wish all model locos were built to that standard.
> 
> As to your thread, this is one I'll be following closely, and I will be copying your techniques shamelessly.
> 
> Mmm, one personal experience, we used Goo Gone at the Club layout a few years ago. It took ages to strip off the sticky residue
> that it laid down. Whatever this stuff has going for it, it was very problematic for rail cleaning. I suspect the noisiness is dry gears,
> but could be a number of things. I believe you posted to the effect that you did a little remedial greasing.


Thank you so much for the compliments! I’m very glad my concept has some fans. I love the first generation of railroading and thought a layout depicting it would be fun and ideal for the amount of space I have. I very much agree, I really enjoy the smaller layouts as they are often very charming and tend to have amazing details. Plus I’m more interested in modeling and being creative than operations, so I’m happy to set up a simple oval with a few turnouts for the sake of creating scenery and structures to my liking. Hope to see some info on your first gen layout soon. 

Even though most of my locomotives are 4-2-0’s (personal favorite steam design as you can tell from my username!) I have the John Bull as well on my layout. I’m in the process of customizing it so the engine looks less like the C&A engine at the Smithsonian and more like a generic Samson class 0-4-0 imported from England. I already removed the leading truck and headlight, now I’m swapping the tender for the one on the DeWitt Clinton but substituting the frame. More on that in a later post. As it seems you are using the Bull exclusively, I'd recommend using this neat diorama as a source of reference/inspiration, I know I am (scroll down to Keighpatt Bay): https://www.kathymillatt.co.uk/blog/2015/04/29/ardenrail-2007-show-layouts/ 

I’m looking to some British manufacturers similar to Trix to eventually buy some two axle freight wagons to supplement my equipment. Currently have about 6 of the Prussia coaches which I really enjoy and will likely be the exclusive passenger consist of my fleet. 

And thanks for the info regarding Goo Gone, sounds like I should try to avoid it.


----------



## Chops

Yep! Count me in as a major fan of the P&F. :appl:

I sent you a PM, BTW. 

I really like your "down grade" to the English "off the shelf" version. 

I had a LaFayette version some years ago. It lasted for 3 hours before the tiny motor burned up and died. 

I am hoping to resurrect my Tri Ang Stephenson's Rocket for my British OO layout ("Henley"). It was mentioned to me that in actual dimension, the tiny set is actually Sn3 (to fit the motor)!

A small favor to ask: your track really looks great. I've struggled a bit with first gen track (iron rails laid on sunken granite posts on the Liverpool and Manchester, in the particular, this allowed for horse drawn rail carts), and what I see here looks really, really good. Red ballast you say? And what about those ties? Can you provide some close ups of your track?

First gen rail is amazing stuff. Some decades ago, I saw an exhibit of gen 1 rail at the Smithsonian. My party could not understand why I stood there for about an hour studying every angle, every shape, everything I could absorb. 

Hmmm, maybe I will model a snake head...

Does it make any sense to start a "First Generation Steam" thread, or is the following too small? In any event, I will be following your progress pretty much daily, this is major, major cool.


----------



## Chops

Whoa, I checked out that Ardenrail link. Ms. Millat is on the level of Allen, Frary, Strange, if I may say. Extraordinary subjects with her own unique flair.


----------



## Single Driver Steam

Chops said:


> A small favor to ask: your track really looks great. I've struggled a bit with first gen track (iron rails laid on sunken granite posts on the Liverpool and Manchester, in the particular, this allowed for horse drawn rail carts), and what I see here looks really, really good. Red ballast you say? And what about those ties? Can you provide some close ups of your track?


Here are some close ups of the tracks. This was a very easy setup using very common code 83 Atlas track, ballast, and some scenic cement. All I did was fill in the gauge with ballast and rather than brush/tamp it down to expose the ties like most modelers do, I simply left it alone! Actually I did brush off the ties on the outside of the rail to give the appearance of stone or wooden blocks. For the layout I might just cut off every other tie to space them further apart, though this looks fine as is. One tip though, be sure to roll an engine or car over the track with the untamped ballast to be sure it does not affect the flanges. Had to remove some excess a few times so the trains can roll easily, then I sprayed the scenic cement.
















Under harsher light in these photos, you can actually see gray ballast peeking through. As this was a test, I actually expected to use the gray ballast in between the rails (in my book on the Mohawk and Hudson, chief engineer John B. Jervis designed a ‘macadamized’ horse path between the rails, a common 19th century road making process using finely crushed stones), but I did not like its appearance, so I put some of the brown ballast on top of it instead. I decided that was a much better appearance (the gray path looks more like a mistake than an intentional path) so next time I won’t use gray ballast at all. 










This is the product I used for the path, brown fine ballast from Woodland Scenics. Luckily I purchased this on a whim from the train shop at Strasburg expecting to only experiment with this. Turns out this is likely what I’ll use on the layout (only other possibility is if I find a better material for dirt/Earth).


----------



## MichaelE

Looks really good. Nice work.


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## Nikola

Chops said:


> Yep! Count me in as a major fan of the P&F. :appl:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it make any sense to start a "First Generation Steam" thread, or is the following too small? In any event, I will be following your progress pretty much daily, this is major, major cool.


Yes, yes it would.


----------



## Single Driver Steam

Nikola said:


> Yes, yes it would.


I really agree with Nikola here, a first generation layout thread would be great! 

Even if very, very few people model this time period, it would be great even as a place of discussion which could possibly inspire more people to give this era a try!


----------



## Nikola

Single Driver Steam said:


> I really agree with Nikola here, a first generation layout thread would be great!
> 
> Even if very, very few people model this time period, it would be great even as a place of discussion which could possibly inspire more people to give this era a try!


Agreed. Plus, it rationalizes having an HO layout with small radius curve. So many agonize over 15" or even 18" HO curves due to not appearing prototypical. Early steam is a totally different paradigm due to the small size of the rolling stock.


----------



## Single Driver Steam

Just completed the under frame for the layout train table. Next step is to set the foam core board in place, set the tracks, and begin adding scenery. 

Slowly but surely this layout will come to life!


----------



## Single Driver Steam

So I laid out my track and think I’m pretty satisfied with this general track plan. Now comes the tricky part: wiring. I initially thought this would be simple as this will be a standard DC layout with only 1 train in operation at a time, though some readings online around wiring make me think otherwise. To be sure I proceed with caution, I’d like to ask the experts here for some insight (I will likely ask some pretty amateur questions, so I kindly ask for a bit of leniency and understanding).










For background, the mainline oval diameter is only about 4.5 feet in length, a fairly small layout. The top turnout will be to a waterside lumberyard/dock, the turnout with two parallel sidings will be an enclosed station area, and the final turnout at the bottom right will be a team track. While I intend to only run 1 train at a time, I want to stage locomotives as depicted in the photo (3 on the layout in sidings).










I am using Peco switches as they were highly recommended due to their quality and performance. As the locos have extremely short wheelbases, I’m using electro frog points. Probably not the wisest choice for an entry level modeler, but I’m determined to overcome the wiring conundrum. 


























Here is my transformer. It has only one DC track output, which was fine as I originally planned to provide one feeder to the oval via electric rail joiners. Now with the electro frog turnout and locos staged on sidings I'm not so sure this simple feeder will cut it.









A few questions come to mind before proceeding:

1. With DC power, do sidings have to be isolated and “blocked” with a wiring switch to stage separate trains if I want to only control one at a time? 

2. I understand with electro frog points, you have to add insulated rail joiners beyond the frog. Does this apply to every turnout on the layout or just the mainline turnouts on the oval “circuit”?

3. How many feeders would be required based on this layout? Would my transformer be able to handle this setup?

4. Will I need to install electric switches for each siding I stage a locomotive? Or would the transformer only control whatever locomotive a turnout is pointed towards?



I've had some pretty decent momentum lately so I'm very eager to get on with modeling, but this wiring bit has me puzzled and I don't want to start nailing/gluing down track without ensuring the correct wiring is in place.


----------



## Stan D

1. Yes, each siding will need to be isolated, and individually fed. Most turnouts don't switch track power(question 4)
2. Insulating the turnout is more important with DCC. The one turnout that leads to the two sidings will not need to be isolated.
3. Your layout is small enough that ons feed point will do. But you'll still need to feed the isolated sidings. And that transformer will do fine.


----------



## Magic

I might be wrong here but if I remember right for electrofrog turnouts you need to insulate the two diverging rail off 
the frog, that would be the two inner most rails, on all the mainline turnouts.
You will need a power drop after each insulated rail.
From what I see you'll need three feeders on the main.
The one you have, another between the two turnouts at the bottom and 
a third on the right side of the second turnout, on the 180° curve.

For your spurs for parking locos I would put insulators on both rails and run power from a 
single throw double pole toggle switch for each spur.
Make sure you keep polarity (+ -) the same all the way through.

This is if my memory is correct, if not someone here will correct me.

Magic


----------



## Single Driver Steam

Thank you Magic and Stan. As these are Electrofrog turnouts the two rails following the frog have to be insulated. I've seen a few wiring diagrams online that suggest using isolated joiners on all four rail joints following a point, but I'm not sure that's required as the only two rails with opposing polarities would be following the frog.


I whipped up a diagram of where I think the isolated joiners should be placed to accommodate the electrofrogs and for staging locos on sidings. Agree with Stan that I would need more than one feeder, and switches for the three sidings I plan to hold equipment. The question is how to wire when my transformer has one positive and negative DC output only?

Also, does it matter which rail is designated positive or negative?


----------



## Stan D

Yes and no. Polarity needs to be the same across the entire layout. I like to have it so the train direction at the front of the layout, or the spot where the train passes the transformer matches the direction switch position.

As for multiple feeds, a switch like this will do to switch power to blocks on the layout.

https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-4779-connector.aspx

These can be stacked to switch more than 3 blocks. The layout my Dad built for me when I was a kid had 4 of these controlling 12 blocks.


----------



## Magic

What you need to do for the mainline feeder wiring is to make a bus wire pair.
I'd use heaver wire than you have now and use two different colored wire.
You run the bus wires to the first drop feeder and T off them to the track and
than go to the next feeder and T again to the third feeder.
Looking at the track plan again you will need a feeder between the center turnout
and the two parking spurs, that's a main line feeder so you'll have 4 feeders at A B C D.
You are only running one train at a time so you don't have to use any switches.

On the four parking spurs I would insulate both rails and run separate wire pairs 
from some toggle switches. You can get the power to the toggle switches from 
main line bus wire pairs and than separate wiring to each spur.
You can use rail joiner with wires attached or solder to the end of the rails on tracks, 1 2 3 4.

Something like this.








I don't know if electrofrog turnouts are power routing or not.
If they are power routing you will not need the toggle switches
for spurs 3 and 4, the power routing will kill power to the spur when it set to the mainline.

Clear as mud isn't it? 
Hope this helps.

Magic


----------



## Overkast

Magic said:


> What you need to do for the mainline feeder wiring is to make a bus wire pair.
> I'd use heaver wire than you have now and use two different colored wire.
> You run the bus wires to the first drop feeder and T off them to the track and
> than go to the next feeder and T again to the third feeder.
> Looking at the track plan again you will need a feeder between the center turnout
> and the two parking spurs, that's a main line feeder so you'll have 4 feeders at A B C D.
> You are only running one train at a time so you don't have to use any switches.
> 
> On the four parking spurs I would insulate both rails and run separate wire pairs
> from some toggle switches. You can get the power to the toggle switches from
> main line bus wire pairs and than separate wiring to each spur.
> You can use rail joiner with wires attached or solder to the end of the rails on tracks, 1 2 3 4.
> 
> Something like this.
> View attachment 487502
> 
> 
> I don't know if electrofrog turnouts are power routing or not.
> If they are power routing you will not need the toggle switches
> for spurs 3 and 4, the power routing will kill power to the spur when it set to the mainline.
> 
> Clear as mud isn't it?
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Magic


And don't forget feeder lines to every spur rail that's insulated beyond the turnouts too! So the black rails in sections B, 1, 3 and the red rail in section 4 (per Magic's markups).


----------



## Magic

*It seems that I gave you some bad advise.*

I did a little checking and found out Peco Electrofrog turnouts are indeed power routing.
This simplifies you wiring a great deal. 
The following is from the DCCwiki web site.
"Power-Routing In An Unmodified Peco Electrofrog

The Peco Electrofrog switch was designed in the days of analog operation (DC) with the ability to power sidings depending on which way the points were aligned. Drive a locomotive into the siding and then set the points for the mainline route. *We could rest assured that the locomotive wouldn't creep away on us - assuming there were no additional track power feeds to the siding. The turnout would function as an electrical switch in addition to its duty as a track switch."*

If this is so you don't need any special wiring at all.
There are no power feeders on any of the spurs so no need to put in insulators anywhere. 
You only need insinuators if there are power feeds to the spurs beyond the turnouts.

This is all you need







Note I closed all the openings and added no extra wiring.
All because the Electrofrog turnouts are power routing.

Sorry for the bum advise and I learned something new today.

Magic


----------



## Magic

Ok here we go again, bad advice part 2.

Now that I look at this more closely I see a problem.
It looks like you will still have to insulate the mainlines at the turnouts and run more power feeds.
There will be power coming from both ends of the turnout on the mainline. 
That will create a short when the points are set to the spur.
For power routing to work there can only be power coming into the facing points and no power for the trailing points 
so you'll need to insulators on the trailing point mainline.
(Facing points are when the train is going CCW in the illustration, Trailing points are going Clockwise.)

Like so








Still no toggle switches needed nor wiring to the spurs.
On the two track spur you only need to insulate the mainline not 
the two spurs as they only have power to the facing points.

If you're more comfortable doing it like I first said there is no harm in doing so, just a little more work and wiring.

Also in reality you only need one black wire connection as the black is only cut once but I like doing them in pairs.

It's been 30+ years since I've used DC and I don't use parking spurs this way with DCC and Insulfrog turnouts.

Magic


----------



## Single Driver Steam

Thanks Magic for adding to the diagram of the layout, really helps clarify things for me. Wouldn’t call any of it lousy advise, it’s a bit tricky as I’m using somewhat complex turnouts. I have to isolate all the rails beyond the points because I’m using Electrofrog points rather than insulated points, so I think you were spot on the first time. It took me a very long time to fully grasp why the rails beyond my electro frog points needed insulation at all, but the following screen grabs from a helpful youtube video really put the polarity issue into perspective for me. 

















As you can see, without insulated rail joiners beyond the two points, any time the switch is thrown a short circuit would occur as the rail charges would not align correctly. As I will be insulating basically every turnout on the layout I may as well create blocks in the sidings in case the turnouts are not power routed (except for the section you designated B, that would not need a block switch as trains would be staged in sidings 1 and 2 beyond). 


I think I have a stronger understanding now how the wires should be routed, but I have limited knowledge of power options. I know I should use “larger cables” running out from my transformer, but what size and how are the positive and negative cables classified (I think I saw a video somewhere online referring to the cable thickness as gauge____?) Also, how do I split one feeder into multiple outputs? Should I use suitcase connectors? Something else?


While I’m sorting wiring and power, I made some more progress on the layout by trimming down the foam to create the Flushing Bay shoreline. The sloping terrain will be smoothed over while the exposed wooden surface will be painted and textured to resemble water. Hoping to also create a wharf and add a small wooden ship to complete the scene. Will likely run that top siding (#4) over the water for freight transload.


----------



## Magic

SDS those are some good illustrations of the differences in frog types.

For the bus and feeder wires for your small DC locos 16 gauge AWG wire in black - and red +
would be ok. Just hook them up to the black and red lines in you plan.
There should be + and - outputs on the transformer. Something like 12 to 14 volts DC.

When you buy the wire the package will say what gauge it is.
Suitcase connectors are a good option for splitting wires.

You will need to solder the feeder wires to either the track at a convenient rail joint or solder the wire to a rail joiner.
Soldering to the track is much better.

The water feature sounds good, always adds to the layout.

Good luck on the build.
Magic


----------



## jlc41

Looks like your getting a handle on the wiring. Looking good, like the shore line idea.

Joe


----------



## Gramps

If you have addressed this before I apologize for asking. Have you considered cutting a groove in the foam parallel to the first left hand turnout and putting in something like basswood as a scene divider?


----------



## Single Driver Steam

More progress to report on the F&B: 


Water undercoat has been applied to the bay. 
A control panel ledge has been mounted to the 3 ft. end of the layout.
Holes drilled through braces of the train table to accommodate the bus wires.
Holes drilled through the foamcore/plywood surface to allow feeder wires.
As I'm laying my track directly on the foam core without any roadbed, brown paint has been applied to the track outline so no bright foam peeks through.










This black/blue/green mix will serve as the undercoat for the water. Eventually I will add a surface coat of LiquiTex gloss to complete the water.








For now I have drilled holes to allow the wires to run through and connect to the power pack and connectors.








The Atlas connectors will isolate the four sidings as laid out in previous diagrams.








The underside revealing the main bus wires.








The terminal block plus two feeders awaiting suitcase connectors to the main bus.

























So the main bus wires are 16 gauge, a bit large to connect directly to the DC power screws. Wondering if anyone could recommend a decent connector that could both accommodate the thicker wire and plug into these screws? There's also a lip surrounding the screws to contend with.


----------



## PoppetFlatsRR

Very nice clean work, neat as a pin. Man I wish I could do that!!!! I am a moving mess when it comes to this stuff


----------



## Magic

Looking very nice SDS. Making some good progress.

Magic


----------



## MichaelE

These are terminal ends used for screw terminals. The two tabs surrounding the screw prevent the terminal from rotating as you tighten the screw.


----------



## Single Driver Steam

MichaelE said:


> These are terminal ends used for screw terminals. The two tabs surrounding the screw prevent the terminal from rotating as you tighten the screw.



I actually have these connectors, my initial concern was the deep cavity on the power pack where the screws are located do not allow easy access for the connectors. 

As you can see in the following image, I gave a go at finagling these connectors onto the DC screw. It's an awkward arrangement as they have to be angled in order to reach the screws. The spade diameter is slightly larger than the screw so mostly one "fork" sits tightly under the screw head. I'm have minimal experience with electricity so I'm not sure if this connection will be issue free or problematic (could be I'm overthinking too).


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## PoppetFlatsRR

Run them straight up and down. The ends bend, it will look much neater, and should not be a problem. Keep up the great work.


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## Stan D

Bend the tabs a little. The electrons won't even notice.


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## Chops

Nice to take a gander at this again. Right now my garage is getting new shelving, 
so progress has come to a near stand still, but will be liberal plagiarizing your 
efforts soon.


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## Single Driver Steam

Updates on the F&B RR:


Complete wiring 
Troubleshoot wiring setup issue involving blocks for sidings
Glue down tracks using foam-friendly caulk

Now that the tracks are completely powered and glued down to their final positions, I can move on to scenery and the more creative aspects of modeling (the stuff I really enjoy!).

My next session will likely involve adding grass/turf, ballast, and dirt (roads and "dead patches" where buildings will be placed). The caulk is currently very visible under the tracks, however I plan to cover the ties anyway with Earth colored ballast as depicted in my earlier diorama. Once that happens the caulk should no longer be visible.


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## Single Driver Steam

Updates on the F&B:

Finally! Scenery work has begun! The following has been performed:


Earth color undercoat added under neath the station, to the team track area, and part of a roadway that links to the outside world
Ballast added to the station tracks. Thought this would be an appropriate place to start just in case I made a slight mistake, the tracks will be covered over with an enclosed train shed station structure anyway!
I thought the back corner of the layout behind the station was looking a bit boring, so I decided to grab some foam pieces from my first 2x2 experiment diorama and create a small hill which will eventually be painted and scenery applied.

Next I plan to use the zip texture method to apply dirt to the undercoat I painted down here and then ballast the team track.

Had some excellent momentum here that I wish could keep going, however I must stop for the next week as I will be flying out west to follow the Big Boy and attend the Golden Spike 150th event. This will give me something to look forward to once I return from all the fun!


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## Single Driver Steam

Returned from my Big Boy/Golden Spike trip a few days back and was ready to get back to modeling. Ended up having a very productive day adding a good amount of scenery and detailing to roughly 1/4 of the layout. Overall I'm satisfied but would like some recommendations on a few minor problems I'm facing.

First, here's a general overview of what I did today. 








The hill so far looks ok, but in my mind doesn't quite look complete. I'm thinking of adding some rock casting to the center portion of the hill. Wonder if anyone can recommend a method for applying such a rock surface after you applied most of the scenery like I did here?








I had trouble with the ballast in most places. There are blotches where the ballast absorbed more scenic cement than others. Anyone here face an issue like this?








Finally, you can see a minor detail I'm for whatever reason greatly proud of. Unsure of what to do with the inch of space between the tracks and layout edge, I decided to add a footpath. You can also make out the roadway which I created with zip texturing. I ran a passenger car over the texture to create wagon ruts.


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## Guest

Nice work on the scenery. It looks really good. :smilie_daumenpos:

I have never used rock castings so I can't offer any useful advice.:dunno:


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## Nikola

Wow, you are making great progress!

As someone mentioned, you can bend the connectors. 

Also, you don't need the connectors at all if you tin the ends of the wires. You can then bend the ends to fit around the screws and they will not unravel and tinning adds stiffness.


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## Chops

Utterly fabulous.


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## Single Driver Steam

Progress has been swift in recent months and I plan to keep things going! Updates on the F&B:


Added two structures (still incomplete), one a livery stable kit, and the second a scratchbuilt toll house
Laid out the village roads and "lots"
Scenery detailing

The current empty patches of grass will be the sites of various structures including a residence, a tavern, a blacksmith, general store, possibly one or two other structures, and of course a train station where the two parallel sidings are located. The road leading off towards the upper corner will cross the tracks to a dockside lumberyard (water front is just out of frame in all photos as I'm not concentrating on this feature now).

I have a pretty strong idea of how the village will come together, the biggest question in my mind is what to do with the approximately one inch of space between the top of the oval and the rear edge of the layout (last photo). Any recommendations on how best to utilize such space?


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## Nikola

Oh man, that is so cool!


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## Gramps

Great work on a unique layout.:thumbsup:


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## Single Driver Steam

Lots of progress on my layout that I wish to share: 


Completed my first scratch build structure, the Toll House located in the lower right hand corner (shown unfinished in the last update).
Just about completed the stable kit (also shown incomplete in the last update), the one caveat is I ran out of shingles for the small awning! Once I get some more and add that the structure is done.
Started and finished another kit structure, a blacksmith shop.
Built a small gazebo from a kit for a town park/square scene. Some bushes, paths, and flowerbeds have been added, but over time will include other detailing. 
Began a major scratch build project, a period accurate station. This is an enclosed structure with two tracks running the length of the building. This is about 75% complete, the only things missing are the windows, doors, trim, signs, and final details.
Added a rock formation to the small hill in the backhand corner of the layout.
Created a small beach scene near the closest area where the surface meets the water. 

This is far and large my favorite aspects of the hobby; painting, building, and scenery. (Actually I’d argue I like it all equal except anything related to electricity!) As a result the momentum is pretty strong. My next steps will involve completing the station, beginning a new scratch build (a stone tavern), and adding some fences/posts/signs near the right hand side of the layout. I also began building a “wharf” from a Durango Press ore ramp kit (last photo in the set), which is where the lumberyard/transload facility will be. I got as far as the bridge piers before I gave up on trying to decipher the insanely convoluted "instructions” that came with the kit. Will likely end up chucking the instructions and making a go of completing the wharf deck using some imagination and ingenuity.


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## Andreash

Impressive...that’s a unique railway. I think sometimes that the simplest things are effective, in particular the footpath, as it’s rarely modelled. 

As to adding rock castings to your hill, I (on my winter layout), cut blocks of pink foam, shaped the rear of the foam to the existing hillside and carved the front to resemble rock. I then hot glued it, and used paintable caulking to blend in.

Looking forward to watching the progress on this...cheers


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## Stumpy

This is looking great!


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## Lemonhawk

Nice raised lettering signs!


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## Nikola

It is coming along very nicely. I had actually been wondering how things were progressing so I was very happy to see this update.


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## Lee Willis

Wow! Very cool. I love it. This is different and quite interesting. Keep posting updates, please.

Very nicely done.


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## Magic

Looking very nice indeed.
Some nice buildings you've got there.

Magic


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## sid

thats the cutest lil rail road. i really like that lil loco . pretty nice.


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## Gramps

Great work on the buildings! I'm enjoying this thread because I'm from that area and I'm guessing the Little Neck & Flushing Turnpike is what eventually became Northern Blvd. :appl:


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## Single Driver Steam

Gramps said:


> Great work on the buildings! I'm enjoying this thread because I'm from that area and I'm guessing the Little Neck & Flushing Turnpike is what eventually became Northern Blvd. :appl:


Glad to hear you're enjoying the thread and that you have an appreciation for the area. 

The turnpike is actually fictional, I wanted to add a toll house and created the turnpike to honor my hometown for the first 25 years of my life (Little Neck) and my present zip code (Flushing).


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## jlc41

Very nice work indeed. Used to go skating in Flushing when I was a kid. The old worlds fare site, played some baseball and football there also, ahh the good ole days.


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## Gramps

Single Driver Steam said:


> Glad to hear you're enjoying the thread and that you have an appreciation for the area.
> 
> The turnpike is actually fictional, I wanted to add a toll house and created the turnpike to honor my hometown for the first 25 years of my life (Little Neck) and my present zip code (Flushing).


While I never lived in Flushing, I went to high school there and spent most of my time with friends from Flushing. I eventually worked there for 4 years in the late 70's. I married a Bayside girl and did spend time at Patrick's Pub in Little Neck.


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## Single Driver Steam

Lots of updates to the Flushing & Brooklyn I wish to share:


Backdrop has been added, made of 1/8” thick plywood sheets clamped to the table under frame (remarkably steady and very portable!). I painted the wood a sky blue and added puffs of white clouds.
To help make my John Bull look more generic and less like the Camden & Amboy engine of Smithsonian fame, I swapped out the enclosed tender for another tender that is also motorized (the loco has no mechanical parts). I used the DeWitt Clinton’s tender chasis but removed the canopy and added a tender frame from a plastic Rocket kit.
I added detailing to the scratch build station, including trim, signs, windows, and mullions. 
Finally I started and nearly completed the next scratch build structure, a stone tavern. This was based off the Revere Tavern in Lancaster PA (a favorite watering hole whenever I visit the Strasburg RR), and like other industries is named for a good friend of mine. Will need to fix the sign and add roof shingles and this building will be complete.


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## Chaostrain

Looks good. Keep up the fine modeling.


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## Magic

You are doing some mighty fine work here SDS.
Your clouds are as good as any I've seen.
The buildings look great as well.

Magic


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## Stumpy

Looks great!

Love the tavern.


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## Nikola

There's a stone tavern a lot like that one somewhere out east on Long Island. Maybe near Stony Brook? It dates back a ways as George Washington stayed there during the Revolution.


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## Murv2

Love your layout, Early steam has always fascinated me as well. I have both the John Bull and Dewitt Clinton and am using Kato Unitrack, so I solved the "dies at frogs" problem by adding brushes to the engine drivers (made from coupler springs) and running wires to the motors on the tenders. It's a little crude but solved the problem. BTW, I found the horn hook couplers make the cars crab a bit so I replaced them with link and pin couplers. Neat, but you have to use tweezers to couple the cars.


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## Spence

Very nice looking layout. :thumbsup:


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