# Layout Room Proposal



## Onlyelement14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Hey all! First time poster. I’m hoping you all can give me some guidance. I am in the final stages of planning and ready to begin construction finishing my 30 x 30 basement. This sounds like the perfect space but my better half has essentially told me I get 30 x 9 and the rest will be living space and a playroom for the kids. 

I’m trying to plan a few things that we have mutually agreed upon for my railroad. 

1) My two young (3 and 1.5) boys CAN NOT have access to the room. 

2) Wife does not want to feel like she is “in” my layout while enjoying the living space.

3) We do not want to wall off the train area to make it a room because we feel it will make the basement feel small. Plus, 3 of the 4 windows are on the wall I will be building on, so we would like that natural light to enter the entire space. 


In response to these issues, we have agreed upon building a wall with large cut outs separating the layout from the living room, similar to a half wall (think like a bar or breakfast wall). I am unable to find any photographic templates online, if you have something like this or know if one, please show it to me! Also, I value any input you have on this process. 

Finally, i plan on building an open grid around the wall style with two small peninsulas, similar to a double dog bone, with a loop in each peninsula. I’m attaching my plans as to date and would love input as well. 

I plan on modeling Conrail’s Boston and Albany division in HO. I want a continuous run, minimum 33in radius, and like to stay as close to 3ft isles as my space lets me.

I’m still tossing up a dedicated two track main or a single track that doubles back on itself creating the illusion of a double track main. The B and A has plenty of passing sidings. 

Here is my plan so far: you can see the two loops, the rest is still up in the air. I’m not opposed to two deck but I’d prefer to have a single deck with lower hidden staging. I do like the idea of a single track with an “up and over” feel where the main line crosses itself on a different level. I just saw a CSX layout in I think last months model railroader that had a similar track plan. 

Thanks and I appreciate the input! 
View attachment 475634


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I find the contrast to be poor in your image. I can't see the defined items and the track system well enough to comment confidently.

If you wish to restrict access to the train area-which-can't-really-be-a-room, maybe a series of screens or drapes would serve, or skirting if the operating surface of the railroad is high enough, say chest high on an adult.

If you use sound-equipped locomotives, they'll compete in an unpleasant way with others wanting to use the non-layout space. Or, for the operator, vice-versa.

On the face of it, I see nothing wrong with your concept. I have as a practice mocking up my benchwork edges and the tracks using masking tape laid on the floor. It takes some work, but it's a sure-fire way to picture in full scale, from your scale diagramme, exactly how things will fit. For example, how close your tracks will really come to the cliffs of doom at the edge of your benchwork. What your real gauge loading will be next to rock cuts or benches that separate elevations. What the real run will be to get you sufficient overhead clearances for catenary and pantograph, or even the boom on a wreck crane. Or double stacked containers in well cars if doing a modern railroad.

Your curves sound generous. Be prepared to have to compromise at some point, even if just to close the loop. If you don't want to compromise, then two things: use a cardboard or thin plywood template representing your minimum radius on each and every radius, and that's why I use the tape on the ground....to make darned sure my turnouts will work with correct angles and lengths and good approaches with no kinks, and that I won't have to close the loop with a 28" radius.


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## Onlyelement14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Thank you for the reply. You brought up a very important aspect I had not considered.... SOUND! Most of my Conrail fleet is sound equipped. Dang. 

I have not laid out a track plan yet, merely my proposal for the bench work grid and the two 6ft reversing loops. A 6ft loop gives me an outside radius of 36in so I’m planning around that. 

My wife initially wanted me to completely wall off my train room but I was concerned it would feel clostraphobic seeing as the room is 7.5ft wide and opens to 9.5ft wide. Being 30 feet long I did not want to feel like I was operating in a long hallway. 

Looking at my plans, does anyone have a better layout plan? I’m not 100% sold on using the back wall, though I do need access to the upper right corner which is the utilities room and the upper left corner which is the electrical cabinet. Maybe a 16 x 16 room instead of a 30 x 8.5 hallway? 

Ahh the decisions!

Thanks,

Lou


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have a full room size HO DCC layout but it uses
a single track main with passing sidings. It also
has a number of industrial spurs, most with 2 or
3 freight users on them. I also have 2 fair size
yards. A very poor pencil drawing of it is the first
entry in the Layout design Forum, Members layouts.

You have the space for that kind of layout. You might
try some redesign to get in as much switching action
as possible. Be sure to include 3 or 4 passing sidings
including one near your yards.

The one factor of the layout you have shown is the
seemingly narrow aisle. I have one of those and I
definitely advise against it. Your clothing will brush
against buildings or whatever near the edge and
you can't turn yourself around.

Don


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## Onlyelement14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Thanks Don. So far my plans call for 3ft isle... I was under the assumption 3ft was adequate.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Honestly, a photo of a pencil drawing isn't clear enough to be able to comment on what you're doing or planning. Any chance you can scan it, or draw it in a digital format which can be posted?

My other big concern is that you have been forced to make too many compromises on the space: no kids, but no walls, either, but then you can't feel like you're IN the layout when you're sharing the room with it, etc, etc. I'm afraid you're just setting yourself up to have your layout be an endless source of family, or at least marital strife. Not a good situation. 

The adequacy of your aisles is a matter of opinion. As a practical matter, a person who is not overweight can sidle through a 20" gap... at the risk of your clothing snagging on things on your layout. A typical interior door is 33". Is that wide enough for you? Maybe, as long as it's only you, and you're paying attention to where you're going and not carrying anything bulky. Only you know that for certain. Set up a pair of chairs back to back a d separate them by the proposed width of the aisle. Experiment with walking between them. How does it feel? Cramped or ok?

30x9 is adequate space for a pretty good layout, although you may have reach issues if your blobs aren't accessible from several sides. Focus on designing a track plan that does what you want operationally, then figure out where you need support.


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## Onlyelement14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Thanks. The boss is pretty understanding - her biggest concern is the kids access and not so much the visual of the layout itself. She realizes it is an important part of my “plan.” Plus, she’s getting a half bathroom and a bar as hush money.

I supposed my biggest problem during this planning stage is that we have this wide open space and I am being forced to close it off to what I “need.” What do I need? How big? I understand these are hypothetical questions. 

The other design element we are struggling with is mounting our ductless HVAC system. We are trying to stick with a single unit, but the only way to accomplish this is to mount on the wall with windows (in the train “room” ) and blow air through the room, through the half wall, and into the living space. The other option would be to add a second unit in the living space but we keep running into problems finding a mounting location due to the layout of the home and the property grade.

The best solution would be to totally move the train room so that both the train room and the living room would share wall space on the window wall so that two units could be mounted on the same wall. I’ve been playing with proposals and I just can’t come up with a reasonable plan, or I end up sacrificing significantly square footage. 

Decisions! Keep the opinions coming, they all get submitted! Here is a slightly better image of our current plan


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Will you be able to control humidity levels in the layout space? I suspect the answer is yes, but I don't know much about HVAC and ductless kinds. I just want to make sure you don't have poorly controlled air blasting into and across your carefully measured and constructed layout benches because humidity swings will alter the dimensions in a bad way for aligned rails.

Will the HVAC also compete when it is running with your sound enjoyment?

I appreciate the improved image above. You will have to deal objectively and constructively with some of your rendering vs. what the tape will tell you...if you elect to spend the hour+ it will take to mark the layout outlines that way. And also, how it looks and goes when you are laying the rails. I say this because your right side peninsula shows the centerline running right to the very edge of the benchwork. That's an Almighty No-No. For HO, something like two inches is a minimum in case a locomotive should derail at the apex and fall outboard of the curve. It WILL fall. With only two inches, you'll need a fascia board whose upper edges rise about a full inch above the terrain surface so that a tumbling or still-running but derailed locomotive will come to rest against it.


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## Onlyelement14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Thanks for input. The upper right hand area will actually be extended 3ft to the right, I just ran out of graph paper. Also, the room will be 6.5ft wide drywall to drywall, which should give me a sweeping 36in radius with clearance on both sides OR a 33in radius with room to spare. 

I’m not sure how loud the ductless unit is, but again, food for thought! Love the ideas. I’m considering installing the unit in the living space and letting the air flow into the train room, giving the living space a comfortable feel. The unit does control humidity which is the reason we are using it rather than running a new baseboard zone. I figure for the cost of baseboard I might as well get AC and dehumidifier as well!

If anyone looks at my plan, don’t be shy to change the room around. Ideally I’d like the layout to be located on the right hand side but I simply can’t find a way to keep similar square footage and still have good use of the rest of the basement. 

Thanks


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Sharp table corners ouch!*

Oilyelement; 

Your layout looks very good with one exception. I suggest rounding off those three 90 degree sharp corners of your table that border the aisle. Your body will thank you someday when you bump into one.  Or worse, a running child encounters one with his head!

A saber saw will do the job in just a few minutes. If you later add fascia board around the layout use Masonite, Luan plywood, (see photo) or MDF. They can easily be bent to a curve, after soaking in a bathtub full of very hot water. A hot shower (for the wood :laugh also works. Also, I strongly recommend that you do adopt, and strictly force yourself to use, a three foot minimum aisle width. Two adults, (unless both of them are anorexic fashion models) can just get past each other in a three foot aisle. 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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