# Best "inexpensive" Lionel Trasformer question



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I have several AF transformers from a 15b, 4b to a 22004 Toy Transformer. I like both the 15b and 4b but I would like to get a Lionel transformer because of the lower voltage. I like the ZW but it is more in cost and size to suit me. Are there any low priced Lionel Transformer that anyone would recommend?:dunno:


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I bought a type A (90W) for $15, a 1034 (75W) for $30 and a type Z (250W) for $70. None of these has a whistle button and only the 1034 has a reversing button. The type Z goes to 25 volts.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

You might want to check out a Postwar KW transformer. It is rated at 190 watts, will control 2 trains, and can be found at decent prices.


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## Mikeh49 (Sep 20, 2015)

The Lionel 1033 is 90 watts, goes 5-16VAC and has a reverse/whistle switch. Should be reasonable.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Along the same lines as Mikeh49’s suggestion is the comparable 1044, which is identical to the 1033, for voltage and wattage. Price is in same range, and very popular transformer.


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## Mikeh49 (Sep 20, 2015)

The 1032 looks to be the same as the 1033 except 75 watts. The 1044 is quite "moderne", probably only suitable for PAs.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Here's my ZW I found at a barn sale














. After a little clean-up, it was a great buy....$10 bucks, still in the original box.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I also use a RW. My Dad used it for his standard gauge #8e set.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Nice looking ZW flyernut, I love mine.

Broke, before you went DCC with N scale did you have a DC transformer?
If you still have it try it on your flyers, I think all the flyers you have will run on DC.
I know you just want to be able to run your flyers a little slower. I really do not know why AF transformers start at 7 volts. That's half throttle right off the bat. Sometimes you got to remember why they call them flyers. They fly. 

Plus I do not know if all lionel transformers start at 2 1/2 volts. Be careful.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, I understand what you want. Example - I only had my AF 12B transformer to run
my 282 and my lionel trains. I bought a brand new Williams O guage engine early last
year. It ran so fast on my AF transformer I took a brand new engine with 2 motors and
cut up the wiring. I rewired it from parallel wiring to series wiring. That worked. Slowed it up by about half. If I had had my ZW I would not have had to do that to a brand new engine. That rewiring will not work on a flyer.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, just save your money and buy a Lionel ZW. You will not regret it. It is the coolest
transformer ever built. And they are vintage, from the 50s. Plan on 100 to 125 for a good one.
They can be serviced as easy as a flyer. I have worked on mine. New rollers and cleaned the coil.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I would get rid of my AF 12B but my dad bought it for me so I could run my 282 and a lionel engine I got around 1964. My dad is gone so I keep the 12B. LOL, but I may never use it again. I guess I could use it for lighting.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

mopac said:


> I would get rid of my AF 12B but my dad bought it for me so I could run my 282 and a lionel engine I got around 1964. My dad is gone so I keep the 12B. LOL, but I may never use it again. I guess I could use it for lighting.


Im big on the sentimental value of many of my trains also. My old lionels have all been acquired from family, and in one case, a nice old couple who lived next door to me when I was a kid. All those people have passed on, so I feel like I honor their memory by hanging on to the trains and keeping them running.Letting them go would be difficult.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

flyernut said:


> Here's my ZW I found at a barn sale
> View attachment 411249
> 
> 
> ...


That was an awesome deal for that zw. I also have one that came in the original box, but I'm ashamed to say what I paid for it after seeing what you got for ten bucks. I want you to be my buyer at the next train show!


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

upsman55 said:


> Im big on the sentimental value of many of my trains also. My old lionels have all been acquired from family, and in one case, a nice old couple who lived next door to me when I was a kid. All those people have passed on, so I feel like I honor their memory by hanging on to the trains and keeping them running.Letting them go would be difficult.


I hear you.. I have many, many trains.. Lionel, MTH, K-line, and of course flyers.. Boxes and boxes of stuff. I have a Big Boy from Lionel, a beautiful Allegheny from K-line, diesels from MTH and K-line, Flyer Northerns, Hudson's, Pacific's, the list go on, not to mention all the Plasticville.. But the one set that's the most dearest to me is the Lionel Standard gauge #8E loco with 2 passenger cars, still in the original boxes and set box, in very good condition. My Dad received it as a Christmas gift back in the late 20's, early 30's. My grandpa told my Dad and his brother they were each getting 1 gift for Christmas, and the choices were a Erector set or a Lionel train set. My Dad took the train set, and I have it now. Still runs perfect.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

upsman55, that 10.00 ZW is the least price I have ever heard of. Do not feel bad on
what you paid for yours. No one but flyernut gets a ZW for 10.00. I paid 125 for mine.
It was advertised as serviced and ready to go. First thing I did even before plugging it in was to pop the lid off. The rollers were so flat they looked like they could break in half at any time. I sent a message to seller. I told him it may have been serviced but not for many years and that it had flat rollers. He refunded me 20.00 and sent me new rollers.
They were easy to replace so I was happy. I love my ZW. So I have 105 in my ZW. I am
ok with that.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Not too many years ago you could figure $1.00 per watt for a Lionel transformer, making a ZW about $275 bucks, maybe a little less. Now you can get them for $125-$175 all day...Now that $10 dollar ZW I picked needed a new cord, and I took it to my local train shop for a service. New rollers, diodes, and a check up to be sure of it's safe operation. All told, I have $60 bucks into it, still a great deal, and I don't even use it,lol.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I just won a Lionel 1033 90 watt transformer for $4.25 but untested. We will see how it does when it gets here. I am thinking about buying a second one for parts. We will see...hwell:


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## Mikeh49 (Sep 20, 2015)

If it looks OK, it probably is. But I'd wear a face shield and use rubber gloves when I plugged it in.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I just won a Lionel 1033 90 watt transformer for $4.25 but untested. We will see how it does when it gets here. I am thinking about buying a second one for parts. We will see...hwell:


Make sure when you plug it in, you use a switched outlet!!


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

flyernut said:


> Make sure when you plug it in, you use a switched outlet!!


I wouldn't be the first time something electrical blew up on me. :laugh: But what do you mean about a "switched outlet:? I will not be connecting it at the meter.:hah::hah::hah:


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I wouldn't be the first time something electrical blew up on me. :laugh: But what do you mean about a "switched outlet:? I will not be connecting it at the meter.:hah::hah::hah:


I suspect it's an outlet that can be disabled quickly in case there's something wrong and the breaker the outlet is on doesn't trip. Think switched powerstrip.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I am trying to recall the reason for wanting a Lionel transformer. If it is because their minimum voltage on the throttle controlled outputs is less than 7V it may not be worth the trouble. I have some MRC AH101 transformers, they have an adjustable starting voltage. I do not recall the exact minimum that can be set but it is around 3V or a little higher. I stopped using the feature. 
Two problems. The AM and SHS diesels would take off at a rapid speed at 7V; problem was 3V was not nearly low enough for them. I have since converted all my SHS and AM engines to TMCC so this is no longer an issue. The Gilbert engines would start to move at the lower voltage but the reverse units would not cycle until the voltage got to almost 6V on most of the engines. The only one that worked well was a Northern in which I had installed a solid state reverse unit in place of the Gilbert mechanical reverse unit. Easy replacement but the board cost almost $50. A nice advantage is after 7 seconds the engine always starts in forward.
I am sure Flyernut could get all these reverse units cycling at 4V or less but that is a lot of work. Another alternative would be to lock all the reverse units in forward but for me that ruins a lot of the operating fun.
In the interest of completeness a ZW-L starts at zero volts. With the chopped waveform output it runs the Gilbert engines very well at slow speeds. An engine with an AirChime whistle cannot be run with it because all the waveform harmonics are played through the reproducer. the constant sound gets irritating quickly. The price point of a ZW-L is also likely way above what everyone is thinking of spending.
I hope you find a solution that works for your layout.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

highvoltage said:


> I suspect it's an outlet that can be disabled quickly in case there's something wrong and the breaker the outlet is on doesn't trip. Think switched powerstrip.


Correct!!


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

flyernut said:


> Correct!!


I have been around electrical and electronic devices most of my life. I use to have to tune the plates on an old T409 HF Transmitter and one could literally sit inside of that high powered unit. B Plus was over 300 volts with much current capacity, as I remember. If you touched the wrong thing, your lights would light up and your bells would ring, that is if it didn't kill you first :smilie_auslachen: .Anyways, thanks all for the advice and safety concerns. My work bench is protected with circuit breakers and power strips. All good advice!!!:thumbsup:


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

teledoc said:


> You might want to check out a Postwar KW transformer. It is rated at 190 watts, will control 2 trains, and can be found at decent prices.


Completely agree. Excellent transformer that to me is better than the AF transformers. Will cost you about $90 for a good one.


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## yd328 (Dec 19, 2017)

I've been wanting to stay with the AF stuff but looking at the bigger lionel transformers, they seem more reasonably priced.

Gary


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I was running my lionel and AF trains with a AF 12B dual control transformer. Plenty of
power. But it was running my trains too fast. I had no slow speed. The 12B has a volt
range of 7 to 15 volts. 7 volts is near half speed. I got a lionel ZW with a volt range of
2 1/2 to 20 volts. It runs my lionel and my AF at a much slower speed. Very happy with
it. Most lionel transformers have a max volts of 18 to 20. That is too much. Gilbert rated
flyers a max of 16 volts so do not run your flyers at max throttle on a lionel transformer.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

mopac said:


> upsman55, that 10.00 ZW is the least price I have ever heard of. Do not feel bad on
> what you paid for yours. No one but flyernut gets a ZW for 10.00. I paid 125 for mine.
> It was advertised as serviced and ready to go. First thing I did even before plugging it in was to pop the lid off. The rollers were so flat they looked like they could break in half at any time. I sent a message to seller. I told him it may have been serviced but not for many years and that it had flat rollers. He refunded me 20.00 and sent me new rollers.
> They were easy to replace so I was happy. I love my ZW. So I have 105 in my ZW. I am
> ok with that.


I don't feel too bad after reading your and flyernuts responses. I picked my zw up about 8 years ago. And I paid $200! And believe me, I do notice the lower prices being shown at the train shows, e-bay, etc. But it's worked well since the day I bought it, so why complain, right?


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## Mikeh49 (Sep 20, 2015)

I just remembered that the Lionel 1033 will go 0-11V or 5-16V, so the low voltage performance of the AF locos can be evaluated. 11V might not be enough to highball though.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, that 1033 is not that much less starting volts than your AF. Hope it works for you.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I received my Lionel 1033 today and tested it. Clean with not noticeable problems. Works great and not too bad for $4.25. (I hope that none of my AF forum buddies sold this as I thought that the price was lower than market price. Ocasionally I score one on EBay.:thumbsup:
The variable AC was 0 to 12 volts AC. All in all, I am happy as this will allow me to fine tune my American Flyer steamer at low speeds. Now, if only I had FlyerNut's skills I would be a happy camper. But I will keep on trying to adjust and clean and tinker.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I received my Lionel 1033 today and tested it. Clean with not noticeable problems. Works great and not too bad for $4.25. (I hope that none of my AF forum buddies sold this as I thought that the price was lower than market price. Ocasionally I score one on EBay.:thumbsup:
> The variable AC was 0 to 12 volts AC. All in all, I am happy as this will allow me to fine tune my American Flyer steamer at low speeds. Now, if only I had FlyerNut's skills I would be a happy camper. But I will keep on trying to adjust and clean and tinker.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Good deal, and stop making my head swell,lol!!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Nice looking transformer. I like it. Great deal you scored. Let us know your start voltage when you get to it. LOL, that beats flyernuts 10 dollar transformer. Looks like it has a good cord. 90 watts should be plenty. 12 volts will be plenty.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I received my Lionel 1033 today and tested it. Clean with not noticeable problems. Works great and not too bad for $4.25. (I hope that none of my AF forum buddies sold this as I thought that the price was lower than market price. Ocasionally I score one on EBay.:thumbsup:
> The variable AC was 0 to 12 volts AC. All in all, I am happy as this will allow me to fine tune my American Flyer steamer at low speeds. Now, if only I had FlyerNut's skills I would be a happy camper. But I will keep on trying to adjust and clean and tinker.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


 Looks nice Fred but I'm beginning to worry about you. It's a slippery slope to the dark side when you start buying Lionel items.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

cramden said:


> Looks nice Fred but I'm beginning to worry about you. It's a slippery slope to the dark side when you start buying Lionel items.


:laugh:I had a hard time trying to decide to buy Lionel. My prejucious go way back to my childhood and not wanting a non prototypical 3 rail train set. But in this case 0 to 12 volts ac was desireable. It is a slippery slope though...:hah:


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Just don't let the wife know your sickness is getting worse.:hah:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok Broke, you have had enough time to try your new transformer. Whats the verdict?


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Ok Broke, you have had enough time to try your new transformer. Whats the verdict?


I need a few more days Mopac. I have been rewiring my ping pong table layout to accept some accessories. I have a hard time staying focused in a 30 degree garage.:laugh::laugh::laugh: I am looking forward to see how the lower voltages run my engins. We will see...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I forgot about your cold garage. I don't work in 30 degrees either. Good luck.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Ok Broke, you have had enough time to try your new transformer. Whats the verdict?


So here are my observations Mopac. The actual voltage, under load, measures as 10 vac while delivering 1.8 amps to my AF 307. I was able to get the slowest speed at 7vac but when I hit the "Red Direction Lever" the engine just stopped. I had to take it all the way to 0 vac in order to get the reverse unit to cycle. All in all, I am happy so now I can fine tune the lower speeds on my locos. I will not be replacing my AF15B with a Lionel 1033 as the primary power source ont the layout. It is a good transformer for what I bought it for and I am glad that it only cost me $4.25 plus $11.95 shipping. 

Secondary: I am perplexed why when running the 307 on a test track the reverse rpm's are greater that while in forward? I have cleaned and lubricated this engine but the reverse seems to be about 10% faster (just guessing). Hopefully, someone will have a suggestion or an opinion.:dunno:


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> So here are my observations Mopac. The actual voltage, under load, measures as 10 vac while delivering 1.8 amps to my AF 307. I was able to get the slowest speed at 7vac but when I hit the "Red Direction Lever" the engine just stopped. I had to take it all the way to 0 vac in order to get the reverse unit to cycle. All in all, I am happy so now I can fine tune the lower speeds on my locos. I will not be replacing my AF15B with a Lionel 1033 as the primary power source ont the layout. It is a good transformer for what I bought it for and I am glad that it only cost me $4.25 plus $11.95 shipping.
> 
> Secondary: I am perplexed why when running the 307 on a test track the reverse rpm's are greater that while in forward? I have cleaned and lubricated this engine but the reverse seems to be about 10% faster (just guessing). Hopefully, someone will have a suggestion or an opinion.:dunno:


Reverse vs forward, typical flyer. From what I can gather, stop and think.. In what direction has the loco been run the most?..Forward of course.. All this running in forward causes a very slight micro-scopic groove on the armature face. That's why you want to re-face the armature, not just clean it or polish it. By re-facing the armature face, you flatten it, bringing it back to an original surface.. Or at least that's what I've been told and read.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, my AFs stop also when I hit the reverse button. When you hit that reverse button
there is a momentary power shut off. Coil drops out and you are in neutral. Nothing
wrong there. Glad you did not spend a bundle on the transformer. Would be cool if the
transformers really started at 0 volts then go 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2 and so forth on volts.

Many of my AFs run faster forward than in reverse. I will agree with flyernut. I have not ground my plates down, just polished them.


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