# Locos run opposite in Fwd & Rev



## ianb26 (Dec 29, 2014)

Hi there,

Finally got my DCS50 running locos in DC mode (programmed as "00") for testing purposes. I have Rail A as equivalent to +ve (RED) in DC and Rail B as equivalent to -ve (Black) in DC.
*RED* is soldered to the right hand rail & *BLACK* to the left hand rail. Standard running at the moment is anti-clockwise. (Bi-Directional at a later date). I purchased the unit a few months ago at a train show.

When the loco starts and the direction lever is placed in Forward direction, the loco goes in Reverse and vice-versa. I have looked through the Digitrax manual to see if I can change the direction settings but can't seem to find anything that helps me. Am I looking in the right place, or can't that function be changed.

In the mean time until any replies are forthcoming I may check out the Digitrax web site.

*EDIT*
*NO* locomotives are fitted with decoders as yet.

Thanks.


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*I am not totally clear what you have here, but.....*

......you can change the direction of the DC locomotive by swapping the + and - leads going to the motor. Without the decoder installed Digitrax cannot change anything as the decoder, not the command station makes the change. 

It's "the lever, anti clockwise, and bi-directional later" that have me confused.

Thanks,

Peter


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## ianb26 (Dec 29, 2014)

Peter Herron said:


> It's "the lever, anti clockwise, and bi-directional later" that have me confused.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Peter


Sorry, "lever", I suppose should have read "knob". Anti-clockwise is what your side of the world calls counter-clockwise.  My intention is to have trains running in both directions at once. That is a few months away yet, probably round Christmas time. I have scenery to do yet.

Hope that explains it for you

*EDIT*
Peter, go to the thread in this same forum called "Advice Please", Page 3, post #28, there you will see photos of my layout.

Enjoy.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

It appears some manufacturers reverse the usual grey/orange wiring arrangement going to the motor, don't ask me why but I've had it several times. Just swap the wires around.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Track polarity determines clockwise or counterclockwise
rotation of a DC motor. On a DCC track that is somewhat
modified.

If you are running DC and want one train to go forward and
one in reverse you would have to revers the motor leads
of ONE loco. 

But, when you install your DCC decoders next time you'll
want to restore them to the original circuit.

I have DCC but never use a DC loco on the track. There is
too much possibility the DCC modified AC on the track will
burn out the DC motor.

You should either install decoders, or obtain an old
DC power pack to run your trains until you do.

Don


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I don't know that he has installed decoders, he didn't say, if he had the problem could be explained if he was using an eight pin it might be round the wrong way.


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## fs2k4pilot (Jan 5, 2013)

Can't he just reverse the wires going to his tracks, if he's running in DC?


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*I believe he wants to run one train........*

........in one direction and the other in the opposite direction on separate loops using one power pack. Reversing the wires to the track will reverse the direction of both trains. I could not find the post he referred to with a layout diagram but am guessing it has 2 loops of some fashion.

Peter


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## ianb26 (Dec 29, 2014)

Hi guys,

I am planning to have decoders fitted to 3 locos in the coming months. Have to be frugal with the finances at the moment.



Peter Herron; said:


> I could not find the post he referred to with a layout diagram but am guessing it has 2 loops of some fashion.


I will repost the photos I was referring to, later today.


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## ianb26 (Dec 29, 2014)

Here is the link:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=38353

See posts #28 & #30

Regards


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Did you resolve the reverse loop problems that we
worked on in that previous Post? I remember those
exchanges.

Are you feeding your track with the DCC controller and
running DC locos on it?

Don


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## ianb26 (Dec 29, 2014)

DonR said:


> Did you resolve the reverse loop problems that we
> worked on in that previous Post? I remember those
> exchanges.
> 
> ...


Hi Don,

At the moment I have run the DCC bus. I have tried the circuitry and all appears OK. At first I thought I had a problem. You may remember marking out suggested locations for the dropper feeds. There were 2 in the top left hand corner just where the double crossovers start/finish. I had - for convenience of testing - used the markings as for DC with the outer rail on the top track as *+ve* and the inner rail *-ve*. I also did the same with the inner track but the DCC controller was giving a "short" error. I realised - after following the track round - that that was where the short was occurring, so I removed the droppers from the track and everything thing was OK.  I will swap the colours to the opposite rails.
*EDIT* Or do I need to do that when just running on DCC?

I haven't added the Auto-reversers yet. Money constraints,  , but that will be sorted in the next couple of months. Now that I know that the wiring is OK, I can proceed adding some remote point switches on that double crossover section, signals at each end, then start and build the tunnels, and completing the roadways and buildings. Being on an aged pension, limits how much I can spend in one hit. hwell:

Then the next phase will be building and street lighting. Have to get the track running before that happens, as grandson keeps asking when we can use it.  It's been about 8 months since I started. Don't worry Don, I have fully taken your suggestions on board. 

As I mentioned earlier, the mixture of DC & DCC is for testing purposes only. The layout will be fully DCC when all is completed.

FWIW I have 3, possibly 4, maybe 5, locos to fit decoders to. I am tossing up doing them myself or using a hobby shop on the other side of Melbourne to do them for me.

That's all for this update. Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions. much appreciated.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Ian

The wiring would be the same DC or DCC. While the DCC track is modified
AC thus we call it phase, and the DC track is polarity, electrically it's all
the same.

Go ahead and buy a decoder and try installing on one of your locos that is the
newest and easiest to remove the shell. The instructions that come
with decoders are easy to understand and the actual installation is
very simple. You may need a small tip soldering iron if your loco
is not DCC 'ready'. If it is 'ready' it's a simple plug and play.

If your locos are not of fairly recent make you may want to do
a stall test to ensure the motor current does not exceed the typical 1 amp
capability of a decoder.

To do that, with a DC power pacj, you connect a volt/ohmeter set to AMPS
in series with ONE wire of the track lead. Then you put the loco
on the track, hold it from moving,
turn up the 'speed' to about 3/4 and slowly press down until the
wheels Stall. Note the amp reading at that point. If it is no more
than .6 or .7 the motor is safe for the decoder. If it goes to 1
amp you would want to replace the motor with a newer
more efficient design.

Important word of caution. After you complete the test be sure
to return the meter to volts or ohms. In the Amp setting the
probes would be a dead short and sparks would fly when you
used it for volts. This, I, er, uh, know for a fact, aaargh.

Don


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## ianb26 (Dec 29, 2014)

DonR said:


> If your locos are not of fairly recent make you may want to do
> a stall test to ensure the motor current does not exceed the typical 1 amp
> capability of a decoder.
> 
> ...


Got between .7 and 1.1



> This, I, er, uh, know for a fact, aaargh.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That sure is borderline, but probably will work out. Usually, when
running at the typical HO scale 40 or 50 MPH the motors draw 
around .5 or less well under the decoder limits. The wheels will
slip long before any unlikely stall. I'd get a
Digitrax decoder. They will replace it if it burns out even
if your fault. Keep your receipt from the dealer, they'll want it.
They come in various physical sizes. Check what space you
have available and choose accordingly. Electronically they
are all nearly the same. I used one designed for N scale
in one of my HO upgrades.

Keep notes on the motor wires. The Digitrax instructions will
tell you which color coded wire connects with which motor wire.
That ensures forward and reverse will match the decoder. The
decoder will have 12 v dc for the head and back up lights, easy
to connect.

You'll probably find that doing the upgrade will afford an enjoyable
hour or two and be ready to do more.

As received, the decoder address will be 3. After you get it
running, you want to change to some other address so that
the next decoder as # 3 can be worked on.

Don


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