# Wiring Layout #1



## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

So, I have decided on a layout for my mom's Christmas train. I really wanted to do the random track with the Y switches, but there just aren't enough hours before Thanksgiving. So I'm going to plan to do this one, and if by some miracle I have "extra" time before I go do her layout, I'll make the Y's. 










There are 8 switches, probably 1122's after I finish cleaning them all up and getting them working properly. Powered by an R Trainmaster (110 w). Hopefully there will also be a milk platform and cattle car platform as well, but that's still in the works.

It's not an overly complicated layout, but I know that X's need to be wired a little differently, and I need insulating pins on the switches (not all of them, but I'll take care of that.) I know I'll need a handful of lockon, but I'm not 100% sure where the best place is for them and what should be insulated from what.

The track is going to be attached to the board, and wires fed underneath to the transformer. The gray square is the tree platform, the train runs under it. 

Thanks!


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## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

That layout is almost the same as mine, except I don't have the crossovers between the loops. One transformer runs the inner loop (with the crossing and four switches) and one transformer runs the outer loop. No extra wiring needed. 

But then I don't have Lionel switches either. Guess that might make a difference.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

LOL

Yes, I'm thinking all of the above will make a difference 

Additionally, she only has one transformer, so doing what you did would be impossible!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Is the layout going to be permanent after the tree comes down? How any trains are you going to run? Lights?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

It will stay on the board until next year most likely, but not _permanent_ permanent. One train. Maybe lights, but not very many because I think she only has a handful of them. We had some plasticville growing up, but not a whole lot of it, and the buildings we had weren't lit. There were some little plastic "street lights" though. Oh, and I have one crossing light that I'll probably add on.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Do you realize that you will only be able to run the train in one direction with the plan you have?
What ever way you start out is the way it will run left to right or right to left.
Add a few more switches and you could reverse the direction too.
If it matters.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

No. It reverses. It just takes a couple loops.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Start going in the direction of the arrow (top arrow) with your finger as the train.
Go down and enter to the inside loop. (second bottom arrow)

Run your finger around the inside loop as many times as you want.
When your finger gets tired come back out to the outside loop. (there will be only one way to come out)

Now you did change directions, it will be the only time you will change directions.
You are now stuck running only one way you won't be able to ever change back no matter how many times you go around.

Try it with your finger.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Ed, the inside loop has two double reversing loops for the direction you have shown. No problem reversing the train and then reversing it back.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I ran my finger train around and around again.
Your right it can change back and forth. 

It does take some going around but I see it now.

OK....continue. 

You should not need any insulating pins on any of the switches right, as there will only be one train running? 

Or do you need them for making them automatically (anti-derail) switches?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I think you'll get by with at most four lockons. Two for each loop, put them opposite each other. I would have one feed like of bigger gauge wire break off into four points feeding them. As the switches will only rum momentarily they shouldn't take much juice. The lights in them will though. If you find your train slowing add a lockon to the trouble spot. I used a rust inhibitor /electrical conducting jell on my pins to ensure the power flows through them. I know servoguy bends the pins a little for the same reasons. If the extra lights take two much power( I think you're good for now) you could always get a small transformer to run them. You can buy light fixtures cheap on the bay to light up the Plasticville houses if you wanted too!


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

big ed said:


> I ran my finger train around and around again.
> Your right it can change back and forth.
> 
> It does take some going around but I see it now.
> ...


There is a finger smudge line on my computer screen at work from when I made this one.  I did it over and over to make sure that you could reverse direction. It takes a few trips around, but it works. 



> You should not need any insulating pins on any of the switches right, as there will only be one train running?
> 
> 
> 
> Or do you need them for making them automatically (anti-derail) switches?


Yes, for anti-derail switches.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Michelle has one pair of 1122 switches that do not need insulating pins. All the rest of them do.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Michelle, if you check some of the track I sent you, you will find that some of the rails where the pins are installed are bent slightly so that when you connect two sections together, the pins apply pressure to the inside of the mating rails. If you do this to all of the sections of track, it will probably allow you to get by with only one or two lockons.

Also, with two left hand (or right hand) switches facing each other, both outer rails will need insulating pins where the two switches are connected together, and the only metal pin will be in the center rail. So you need to have a lockon on the inside loop and on the outside loop.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Yes, when assembling the track I have followed your advice on the pins. It has been working well so far.

I'll put the insulators on both sides of the curves, thanks!!!


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

*Easy as a glue gun for lighting...*

Hi Michelle. I like what you're going to accomplish for your mom's Christmas tree layout. You mentioned she has a number of Plasticville items. If these items to have to be considered collector's items (for sale at some point), one inexpensive answer for lighting inside houses or buildings, wherever, is to buy those groups of 50 inexpensive (I think they're under 6 or 7 bucks, delivered, from the "We Honest People" suppliers in China. Mine arrived very quickly after online purchasing. They are super easy to hookup in any direction, just using a glue gun with a little bit of glue. I've put them in several spots on my layout, and hooking them up to a small transformer (or inexpensive used 6,9 or 12-volt cellphone chargers found at thrift stores for power) is convenient and cheap to do. 

Otherwise, if a person wants 5 or 10 lights here and there on a small layout, you're looking at about 5 bucks per lighting fixture and then the bulb, and then you'd need a real transformer to supply the power. Or, the cellphone chargers work great (just strip off the end that plugs into the cellphone and connect (solder is best) those two wires to a light or a few lights together). Twelve volts is plenty of power for this type of light.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Michelle,
If you use the two switches that do not need insulating pins on the outside loop, then you will have a steel pin in one outside rail. Using these two switches for these locations will also make the switches stay together.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Michelle,
> If you use the two switches that do not need insulating pins on the outside loop, then you will have a steel pin in one outside rail. Using these two switches for these locations will also make the switches stay together.


Thanks! I'll give that a try!!

I'm hoping to finish up the switches this weekend and put the test layout together.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

One thing I like to do when I am working on a layout is put a simple loop together and run a train while I am working. It breaks the monotony.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> One thing I like to do when I am working on a layout is put a simple loop together and run a train while I am working. It breaks the monotony.


That sounds nice... however, I have a cat who thinks everything that's moving is for him to attack... lol


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Years ago, I had two cats and when the train was running, they would sit on the track until the train came along. As soon as the engine touched them, they would jump straight up. They never did figure out that the train followed the track.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Years ago, I had two cats and when the train was running, they would sit on the track until the train came along. As soon as the engine touched them, they would jump straight up. They never did figure out that the train followed the track.


LOL

My cat Bosco used to sit next to the track and watch the train go round and round... and then _smack_ she'd flip it over. She did like to sit on the tracks now that you mention it. Cats are weird.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Ok, layout is done, but it needs some tweaking. Here it is:








Top two and outside middle row are 1122 that need insulating pins. 

Middle two in the middle row are 1122 that do not need insulating pins. 

Bottom row are 1121's that I need to make anti-derail (using copper tape "patches" on the rails)

Thoughts on the best way to power it all?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Step 1: get cat off of layout
Step 2: get wires off of track (put wires under track as necessary)
Step 3: put loco on track
Step 4: plug in transformer
Step 5: turn on transformer and see if loco runs
Step 6: debug as necessary


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

One wire to cats tail, other to front paw, make sure to use alligator clips so the wires don't come loose. 

Seriously, put a lockon on each side and see what happens. It'll work just fine. By the way I like it. Servoguy, any problems with having all those switches connected together? With the anti derailing, or power issues? I don't know because I never did it!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I put together a large floor layout a few years ago with 50 022 switches. No problem.

Remember, the switches only pull power when they switch, except for the light bulb.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Michelle,
Did you get the corroded light bulb out?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Not yet, used a different switch.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I got the power draw thing, was just wondering how the anti derailing would work and the insulating rails. I remember some people having problems with three switches in a row. They needed a little peice of track with a separate lockon between the switches. Just wondering if that applied here.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

That's what I'm not sure about - how the switches will run back to back like that. As usual, my biggest worry is possible damage by making mistakes experimenting.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you have two left hand (or right hand) switches connected together on the end where the insulating pins are, the outside rails will be insulated from each other. You must then make a connection between the outside rails across the insulated pins. Easiest way to do this is to put a wire between the two ground (outside rail) terminals of the two switches. This wire will not affect the way the non-derailing feature works.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

A quick look at your layout indicates that everything should work the way you have put it together.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, thanks, I do learn new things. Just couldn't put it together by looking at it. Some things are easier figured out while doing them, for me anyway.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

That is the advantage of mechanical things over electronics. You can see things. Electricity is invisible unless you have an oscilloscope. It is not as intuitive as something you can see.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

The older 1121 switches will function better if you move them to the top of the layout. That way you can wire in insulated tracks on either side to operate as non-derail.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

You can make non-derail using copper "patches" as well. That's the next project after getting all the switches to move smoothly.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Michelle,
> Did you get the corroded light bulb out?


Yup, ended up coming out without much convincing, the front half of the socket inside and out is green. Going to have to replace it. I have plenty of controllers though, so it's not a huge deal at this point... though it's on the list!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is a nice color you painted the cat. :smilie_daumenpos:
How did you spray the circles on it? 
Or are they decals?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

lol

Very precise use of templates. 

Freddie is a Bengal, they have two basic coat patterns, rosette and marble. He's a rosette.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Cool, I never saw cats with patterns like that. :thumbsup:

Where do they come from Africa?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

The F1's are Asian Leopard Cat (wild) and tabby (I can't remember the breeds used. ) Anything after F3 is a Bengal.

*corrected, it's F3 not F5


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

F1 F5 they come with model numbers like a train? 

Like a tornado?

Very strange looks like a tiger leopard. :thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

XXXXXX double post


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

F1 - half wild half domestic
F2 - f1x domestic
F3- f2 x domestic

Etc

I'm not sure what an f1xf1 would be considered since that's still technically half wild cat. 

But "tornado" is an excellent description. He's kind of like a raccoon without opposable thumbs. lol


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The second cat picture is very cool. . Nice cat, I just have in breads I took in off the street, there loyal but crazy. The Bengal are supposed to be bigger then normal cats right?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

He's only 11.5 pounds. But very muscular. He's actually smaller in size than my tabby, but four pounds heavier. He's like a little fur covered brick... With built in knives. lol

My Maine **** was 17 pounds when he was in his prime. 

Freddie is an ex-show cat. He is titled, health tested, etc etc, but after six breedings and only one single kitten produced he was retired. 

Freddie - as in Freddie Mercury...
He's flamboyantly dressed
He loves to sing (day in, day out!)
And...
Not interested in the ladies. ;-)


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

So anyway... about my TRAIN :laugh:

What's the highest gauge wire that is recommended for hooking up the transformer?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I hook up 18 Guage to a bus bar and split from there, you could 20/ 22 Guage. That would be more the adequate. I use speaker wire for most of my accessories and switches, cheap and easy.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The wire gauge is determined by the size of the transformer. A ZW for example, can supply 15 amps, and so needs 14 gauge wire. How many watts is your transformer?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

It's a V - 150 watts


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I would not be using anything like #22 to connect the track feeds. I'd say that #16 is probably sufficient.


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## alman (Oct 22, 2012)

mnp13 said:


> It's a V - 150 watts


 The wire used should be comparable to the maximum amperage ! 

EXAMPLE : If maximum amperage is 15 amps , it should be minimum # 14

If maximum amperage is 20 amps , it should be minimum # 12 

Etc.

Having said that , the load on the train transformer is usually very low .

Therefore , 16 gauge should be more than sufficient .


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The circuit breaker for the V should be at about 6 amps. 16 gauge speaker wire is good for 10 amps.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I think you're getting carried away for a 150 watt transformer. The most you're going to supply to the track is 10 amps as a rule. That 150 watt transformer is rated on input power, not output power, as are almost all Lionel PW transformers. Realistic, you might get 120 watts out of that transformer at 18 volts, so we're at significantly less than 10 amps. For true 180 watt output power bricks that can deliver a true 10 amps, the #16 is sufficient for reasonably short runs, say less than 10 feet. Given that, it certainly should be enough for a transformer that isn't going to deliver 10 amps on a good day.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm using 14 stranded right now, and it's a pain in the neck because its stiff and hard to get into the lockons. I want to up the gauge to make it easier to use, but 22 (which the guy at the hobby shop told me to use) seems awful flimsy. 

The longest wires will be about 10 feet once installed. I am not soldering the track, so will be using a couple lockons spread out around the track.

The total track length is about 40' with eight switches. It will also have one operating track somewhere in there to run the milk car and the cattle car (in theory.) The only other accessory at this point will be a signal somewhere.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can use either 16 gauge or 18 gauge.


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## alman (Oct 22, 2012)

mnp13 said:


> I'm using 14 stranded right now, and it's a pain in the neck because its stiff and hard to get into the lockons. I want to up the gauge to make it easier to use, but 22 (which the guy at the hobby shop told me to use) seems awful flimsy.
> 
> The longest wires will be about 10 feet once installed. I am not soldering the track, so will be using a couple lockons spread out around the track.
> 
> The total track length is about 40' with eight switches. It will also have one operating track somewhere in there to run the milk car and the cattle car (in theory.) The only other accessory at this point will be a signal somewhere.




I think you are getting confused , # 16 gauge is smaller gauge than # 14.

# 18 gauge is smaller gauge than # 16.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

alman said:


> I think you are getting confused , # 16 gauge is smaller gauge than # 14.
> 
> # 18 gauge is smaller gauge than # 16.


Right. 16 is smaller than 14. The higher the number the thinner the wire.

The guy at the hobby shop told me that I could use 22 to attach the transformer to the track, and I _know_ that's not right. I read somewhere to use 14 so I got some of that; but 14 doesn't fit easily into the lockons and is stiff and harder to use. I want to go up in gauge (therefore down in overall diameter) but at the same time want have it set up correctly / safely.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd stick with what servoguy said, #16 or #18 will do the trick.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd stick with what servoguy said, #16 or #18 will do the trick.


That's the current plan. I appreciate the input from everyone, it's interesting to read the discussion and I know there are many different ways to arrive at the same solution.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

And we frequently arrive at different solutions, and even more confusing result!


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

There are plenty more questions coming. Something is not quite right with the switches, but I have to finish wiring a couple more controllers before I move on to that discussion. 

I'll make a new image that is marked so that it's easier to follow.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Michelle,
> Did you get the corroded light bulb out?


Corroded light bulb is out, new socket is in (thanks John) and I found similar ones to the ones he sent me to try out at RS so I'm going to fix them all.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have more of those sockets if you need them, but I'll have to start charging something for them.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

I appreciate the "trial" ones  now that I know what to look for I'll go pick some up. I saw that type before, but they are different than the originals and so I didn't get them. Once I saw what you sent, I figured you knew what would work so I figured it out. 

Hand me a saw and a drill and a compressor and I'll figure out how to make things work... but it would seem that a soldering gun, wires and switches are far more intimidating for me! lol

I need to get more confident in trying things out with the trains. I don't know why I'm so hesitant to do it... but I definitely am!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Jump right in, what's the worst that can happen?


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