# CP rail Sig apects



## TapRoot (Oct 3, 2010)

can someone help me determine what signals to be realistic I would need for my mini yard?

Or a link that explains why certain signals are used and not others IE. one with two separate lights, or three together, or small ones next to tall ones.....
I roughly understand what the colors and series of colors mean just not what situations and locations they are applied


cheers and thanks for the help!
-Ben


I used this to learn colors but doesnt help with the why
http://www.railroadsignals.us/cp1.htm


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## TapRoot (Oct 3, 2010)

darn nobody here knows anything about signals hey?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tap,

Only thing I can do for you is to point you towards a real-life-train yard layout functionality book that Anton/Tankist has highly recommended in the past:



tankist said:


> if you interested in operations i can recomend this book - http://www.amazon.com/Track-Planning-Realistic-Operation-Railroader/dp/0890242275
> much more in-depth explanation of operations. the only instance where i recommend getting a book


TJ


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## TapRoot (Oct 3, 2010)

thanks TJ ill have to check that out


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

http://www.railroadsignals.us/

This link has alot of info but is geared mostly to B&O and PRR signalling. But some could be used universally. Its alot of reading though, but has good diagrams and pics.


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## TapRoot (Oct 3, 2010)

ok! to my knowledge on﻿ main lines you can use to color and 3 color signals...to indicate the mainline is clear busy or block..on 3 head signal: red,green, red means that the train is going to switch tracks. red,red,red means stop. green,red,red, means that the line is clear...signals on yards. you can or can't use signals, dwarf signals are the most common "at least where i live"..green indicates that the turnout is straight and red that is rather to the right or the left.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Ben
It might help us if you tell what Era your needing, Maybe I'm off, I'm not real up to date on Canadian rail. I know our signals here in the west USA are different then the East.
Thanks


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## TapRoot (Oct 3, 2010)

Well I found a pic of a CP rail yard that had lights inside the track (not dwarfs but giant LEDS) red after every turnout and green on the straight line - I wanted to know why certain lights were chosen and sometimes none (rail yards) 

I am west coast Canada looking at the CP line in current times - I have two mainlines and a rail yard I want to add working lights to - But want to be as realistic as possible

thanks!
-Ben


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry to say but sometimes there is no explaination to what the rail lines do. I have found some really odd things over the years.
I think that I've see the the signals that your talking about.


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## TapRoot (Oct 3, 2010)

yeah I have come to the conclusion not much is science - whoever is in charge at the time thought best to do whatever is done and thats the way it is - I know some shades on lights are used in areas where more ice builds up than others lol and dwarfs when tall signs not really needed but it could be either way....


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

The crazy part about this picture is the last set of light are all red???? 
What the train can't go anywhere??? :laugh: 
I really like the look of the lights on this yard...  HUMM
Maybe I need to start modeling CP rail Lines! :laugh:


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

This is a pretty old thread, but I came across it by chance during a google search and saw that basically nothing had ever been answered or resolved here.

There is a pretty clear logic to most signalling installations. Signals provide for train control (in CTC) and information about speeds and track occupancy. It's not just random or voodoo as the signals have to provide clear information to train crews.

First of all, if you're trying to learn Canadian Pacific signals, ditch this link:



TapRoot said:


> I used this to learn colors but doesnt help with the why
> http://www.railroadsignals.us/cp1.htm


Those are NOT CP signal indications. Those are probably UP or BNSF signal rules and not remotely similar to the Canadian rulebook. You want to take a look at the old Uniform Code of Operating Rules (UCOR):
http://www.wrmrc.ca/ucor/281.html

or the modern Canadian Railway Operating Rule (CROR):
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco93-175.htm

(Note that a lot of the newer indications that exist in the CROR but not the UCOR are pretty much all CN-specific signals, so to understand CP you can pretty much get by with the simpler UCOR set).

The next thing to note is that signals will generally be used only on main tracks that have CTC (Centralized Traffic Control) or ABS (Automatic Block System) installed and at interlockings (which could involved any number or main or secondary tracks.
Sidings and yard tracks will generally not have any form of signalling except where they join up with main tracks at an interlocking.

Canadian signalling rules are based on "speed signalling". Basically, each signal indication will dictate (if not "Clear" or "Stop") the speed to pass this signal, and how to approach the next signal down the line. Note that dwarf signals only allow for the slower speed indications; they're generally only found on secondary tracks governing movements into the main track through the diverging leg of a switch (eg. at the end of a passing siding).

You'll notice looking at the Canadian rules linked above that the difference between a 2-head or 3-head signal is the speeds that can be indicated. (Slow vs. Medium, Limited) This will be determined by the switch # and the designed speed rating of that switch/crossover.

Finally, throw away everything that the model press says about number plates making the different between an absolute "Stop" and a "Stop and Proceed" signal, because that's not in the Canadian rules. It may be true on the Santa Fe, but not in Canada.


So, long story short, you don't need signals in your yard, and if you want signals on your main track you'll have to figure out if you want it to be dispatcher-controlled full CTC, passive ABS, or just a simple non-prototypical switch-position indicating system like many other modellers end up doing.


Postscript: the signal lights in the photograph at the bottom of the first page in this thread look like switch and derail position indicators for powered switches and derails. On hand-thrown switches with switch stands, the switch stand has a reflectorized target on it that aligns with the track to show that the switch is normal or reversed in exactly the same manner as those lights.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

That's interesting. I didn't know they used lights like that. That would be very easy to do with LEDs.



TapRoot said:


>


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

OK I didnt read the long post but if any one has noticed the lights on the pics. The green lights are all on tracks that are lined straight and the red is lined for the turn out. This will let the engineers know which tracks are lined for what, even if the lighting is poor. THese lights can be seen in rain or fog where the rails may not be visable.

Massey


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## cbarm (Apr 15, 2011)

Not all yards use signal indication for movement. I work out of Medicine Hat for CP and our yard here has 17 tracks. The only signals we have are for entering and leaving the yard on the east and west end. 1, 2 or 3 aspect signals can be used on the mainline and both tall and dwarf can be found here. Signals most common for entering the DOB limits of our yard are clear, clear to stop, and restricting. Hope this helps some


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