# Brass Engines that Don't Work.



## traci281 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hi Everyone! I have 3 brass engines that don't run. This is probably a very basic question but are they still collectable? I am assuming I can't sell them for what I could if they ran. Any ideas on how much less, percentage wise, I should ask? One actually makes a humming noise but the other two do nothing at all. Any help would be great! Thanks!
Traci


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## haphall (Feb 1, 2011)

We'll need to see some pics.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

there is no exact formula to calculate value if thats what you asking about. 
they will sell for exactly as much as the buyer you will find will be willing to pay for it.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

It actually matters very little to a collector, though some would use it as buying leverage. Do not try to clean or oil them, leave it to the buyer, you may not get all they're worth but you shouldn't hurt either. Chances are better than average that there's nothing wrong with them that a good clean and lube won't fix...you'll be fine.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

I have two little cast metal engines that a friend gave me years ago and he told me they wouldn't run. They have been sitting in storage for about 15 years and the other day I got them out,took the body off and doused them with WD-40. Put them on the track and after a few minutes of hesitation they ran like a clock. Good ol' WD-40. Pete


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## traci281 (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks so much for your advice. Here are the pics of the engines. The last one(United Models) is the one that hums and doesn't move. I even gave it a little push but nothing. I didn't want to force it. Maybe it just needs some WD-40 like Pete said. But, like Shaygetz said, I don't want to mess with them. I also don't want to be an ebay jerk and ask too much, which is a waste of everyones time. So thank you all for your advice!
Traci


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

If you go to sell them I might be interested let me know thanks


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I've longed for that Mich-Cal #2 for a very long time....oh dear have I...PM sent...


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

They are in great cosmetic shape...you should hasve no problem selling them for a good price on eBay.

Remember...plenty of pix + good description = good sale

I think you will be pleased.


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## haphall (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm sure each of them will fetch a pretty penny. You have some very nice locos. Wish I could afford that little Shay. Shaygetz is right. Lots of pics on these auctions. You're selling to collectors.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

I know that many of you are way more versed in the model railroad hobby than I am and more experienced in what's collectible and what's not. However I can't understand the idea of selling something that doesn't work.
It's obvious to my inexperienced eye that these engines are in pristine condition and certainly will sell fast at a good price but I can't help thinking that they would fetch much more money if they were running.
WD-40 comes with a nozzle that you can poke into all kinds of little spaces so oiling up the running gear on these engines shouldn't present much of a problem. It's at least worth a try if you don't want to take the engines apart.
I don't care if it's a generator,a lawnmower, an antique car or a model airplane,boat or train, if it doesn't run it's just worth a whole lot less to any buyer. Think about it like you were going to buy it. Pete


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## traci281 (Apr 21, 2011)

norgale said:


> I know that many of you are way more versed in the model railroad hobby than I am and more experienced in what's collectible and what's not. However I can't understand the idea of selling something that doesn't work.
> It's obvious to my inexperienced eye that these engines are in pristine condition and certainly will sell fast at a good price but I can't help thinking that they would fetch much more money if they were running.
> WD-40 comes with a nozzle that you can poke into all kinds of little spaces so oiling up the running gear on these engines shouldn't present much of a problem. It's at least worth a try if you don't want to take the engines apart.
> I don't care if it's a generator,a lawnmower, an antique car or a model airplane,boat or train, if it doesn't run it's just worth a whole lot less to any buyer. Think about it like you were going to buy it. Pete


Well, Pete, I appreciate your take on this. I would be interested in what the others have to say. It seems the general concensus is that if you don't know how then don't try. I know with coins that cleaning them can very much decrease the value. If this were a lawnmower or generator, then yes, I would definately get it running before I sold it. I know how to do that though, or I could find someone who did. I just don't want to risk doing more damage to these brass trains. I would rather sell them for a bit less than mess up the engine and bottom out the value completely. They may not be as fragile as I think, though. Thanks for you advice!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I strongly suggest you do NOT poke a nozzle in those locomotives and start spraying anything in them! Follow the good advice you've been given previously and leave them alone or take them to an expert to get them running.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

These were built primarily for the collectors market, only a small percentage were actually run as models. Like any collectible item, there are elements that enhance or kill value, including paint, condition, tarnish, etc...they are much like coins. 

From her pictures, it is obvious that they are well cared for models in excellent condition. The boxes enhance that value. Since these were rarely shipped with a lubricant, the problem most likely can be traced to momentary seizure of the drive train...easily fixed---but only by hands that know what to do.

Years ago a brass maker accidentally installed 1.5 volt motors in their locos instead of the usual 12v motors. Of course they poofed the moment power was applied but, a subsequent recall only had a response of about 10%, nailing down the idea that they are primarily collector items.

Hope that helps...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

traci281 said:


> Well, Pete, I appreciate your take on this. I would be interested in what the others have to say. It seems the general concensus is that if you don't know how then don't try. I know with coins that cleaning them can very much decrease the value. If this were a lawnmower or generator, then yes, I would definately get it running before I sold it. I know how to do that though, or I could find someone who did. I just don't want to risk doing more damage to these brass trains. I would rather sell them for a bit less than mess up the engine and bottom out the value completely. They may not be as fragile as I think, though. Thanks for you advice!




If your happy with getting $500 for one, instead of say $1000 then do it.

If I were you I would find a reputable shop and have them serviced.
Then sell them as running. Instead of listing them as dead.
Most likely they just need a little service or minor stuff done to them.
Like a wire came loose.


If you have 10 engines not running at $500 per engine compared to $1000 per your losing $5000 bucks.

Someone who can fix them for say $200 that would be $4800 more in your pocketbook. :thumbsup:


What is your rush anyway. The longer you wait the more they will be worth.

Just my 2 cents.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Many brass engines were painted with a gold lacquer or a clear coat, mess that up and you knock up to 50% off the value. It is simply not worth the risk.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I am very interested in the top engine and that shay if shay hasn't already bought it from you. I would advise to never never put wd40 in any engine no matter what. Use actual oil ment for the engines like what you find at a train store. It gives you a lot more vontrol of where it goes, better for the mechanisms, and lasts longer. I wouldn't mind offering to fix them up for you but that would hurt my chances of being able to buy them and giving a good price so I would much rather just buy them from you as is. I must say that nothing is worthless. I have bought non-working lights and found out it was just a switch or loose wire and ended up with 200 dollars worth of light for a mear 6 dollars. Now brass engines don't depreciate a whole lot if they don't run or not very well. Most of the people that actually own brass engines just collect them and maybe set them up on a shelf for the rest of time. I personally don't understand this but to ones their own. PM sent


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They are beautiful and unique locomotives, almost makes me wish I was doing HO.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

That's what you get for choosing O scale.  JK


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Like I said I'm sure you guys know more about this stuff than I do. If I had them I'd probably ruin them trying to fix them and that would be a bad thing.
I'd sure like to own that Pennsy at the top. Nice engine and tender. Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, if I had them, I'd probably at least take a look at getting them running. However, for a novice to just hack at them randomly, it's an incredibly bad idea. Only bad things can come of that. I think that Traci is will advised to either sell them as is, or take them to an expert to evaluate them.

I don't think anyone thinks it's a bad idea to get them running, it's just not advisable to take a "stab in the dark" and potentially do serious damage in the process.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gc53dfgc said:


> That's what you get for choosing O scale.  JK



You know that there are brass o gauge engines?

One just sold on e bay the other day.

Do a search for O gauge brass.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

My heart pants for an O scale Olympia brass model of the Virginian 4-8-8-8-4 Triplex...what a beast, they even shoehorned three motors into that booger....sigh...


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Pete, When I first got really into this hobby I could not for the life of me figure out what the deal with brass engines was. They are insanely expensive and delicate, even the mech inside them is. Then I got a chance to repair one that fried a motor. At the same time we added DCC to it. The owner bought this engine overseas and it was beautiful. I thought my $300 engines had some detail but this engine made them look like toys. I was able to replace the motor, and add DCC to the engine thanks to MRR mag that just ran an article about putting DCC in a brass loco. 

I learned alot about how the brass engines are built, I found that they are NOTHING like the plastic ones we usually buy and the level of detail that they posess makes them worth the extra $$$ they sell for. I will prolly never own one, I would be afraid to run it or have my kids "play" with it.

Massey


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Too rich for my blood, but I love looking at them.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Your right Massey and I have never even seen a brass loco never mind held one in my hands. However the reason I feel the way I do about fixing one is that I've always thought that anything mechanical is nothing more than nuts and bolts and that goes for everything from trains to auto engines ect. I've just always been mechanically inclined and not afraid to take something apart no matter what it was. Having said that I have to admit that I havn't always been able to put the things back together and have them work like they should.The 430 engine in my 60 Lincoln has no mysteries for me. I can tear it down and rebuild it no problem but these little Ho engines give me fits that would drive a sane man crazy. Guess I'm not sane afterall. Ha! Pete


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

big ed said:


> You know that there are brass o gauge engines?
> 
> One just sold on e bay the other day.
> 
> Do a search for O gauge brass.


Well I knew they made them but I don't want to pay an arm and two legs for one. The HO brass ones are 1K new so an O gauge one must cast a heck of a lot more.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gc53dfgc said:


> Well I knew they made them but I don't want to pay an arm and two legs for one. The HO brass ones are 1K new so an O gauge one must cast a heck of a lot more.



How about 2 arms and just one leg then?

Man look at the power for the one Shaygetz posted.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

If this link doesn't work search e bay type o gauge brass and this is the first thing in line.

not bad...needs a little TLC.:thumbsup:


http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Brass-C...434646?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a10613d96


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That O brass was $154 when I posted, now it is up to $550.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's at $652, and it's beat up, not like the pristine models we are looking at here!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's at $652, and it's beat up, not like the pristine models we are looking at here!



I hear you...the bidders must think like they did back during the gold rush.


Brass! Brass!

The seller doesn't even know if it moves.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sucker sold for $745.09, not bad for a beat-up locomotive!


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

745.09 for that O gauge brass!? That thing was really beat up looking and missing a lot of parts. You could by two new O gauge engines for that price that have better motors, sound, and even detail. What a screwed up world huh?

http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-BRASS-PFM-Gr...994073?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item484064d059
You could roughly have 2 of these for that price and these are new and super detailed


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

> What a screwed up world huh?


Yep, you said it.


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