# PIKO and DCC



## A2Mich (Oct 25, 2009)

I haven't owned a train layout in probably 30 years (that was a simple TYCO F40 Amtrak HO basic oval). I am wanting to get back into HO railroading again, as I have a young son (5 YO) that absolutely LOVES trains. We have an idea of what we want and are limited by layout space and budget. We are limited to a 4 x 8 or 4 x 9 layout. What we are looking at is either the last or second to last layout on this page: http://www.thortrains.net/marx/kdlayhoa.html We are wanting something very simple so that our son can run one or two trains on seperate ovals but with the turnouts so that us parents aren't bored to tears either. Our son is really wanting to run the PIKO ICE 3 HO set, and of course, has seen the videos of the set with sound, which will require a Loksound smart decoder. My questions are many, and I hope that some of you experienced modelers can help, or tell me if I'm wasting my time.

Keeping in mind that we would like to run a layout from the above link (either last or second to last on the page). We would be purchasing the PIKO ICE 3 DC Starter set (HO) , an NCE Power Cab DCC set, and a ESU Loksound v3.5 smart decoder..


1) If not too terribly difficult, would it be possible to have DCC and DC systems wired together and switchable? I know that the DCC and DC can't be USED at the same time, but my thinking is that my son may have a difficult time with a digital system and would like the option of being able to run the system on DC for him. I know that the ESU decoder is considered a smart decoder and allows this automatically without changing jumpers, etc. Would this be possible with simple switching, or am I looking at an electrical nightmare with turnouts, etc. I know that this would be simple on a basic oval, but not sure how much more difficult this will be with turnouts (DCC friendly one, BTW)

2) When using DCC friendly turnouts (such as Insulfrog, etc), do feeder wires need to be soldered on BOTH sides of the turnout for DC and DCC operation? 

3)If I use remote turnouts, can they be operated by a DCC controller with whatever decoder is needed, or do you use a separate DC or AC switching signal to control? My thinking may be to wire for non-DCC turnout control at first and then upgrade later if possible. I've been reading through various books that I've borrowed from the library so far (but they offer NO info on DCC---their books are all outdated as far as DCC is concerned), but will be purchasing as needed online or from a local bookstore. I was hoping to get some answers before I buy the books if it will be a waste of time. Any help I can get here would be greatly appreciated before I order all of these things and tackle this project!

I had previously asked a question in the Introduction forum about PIKO track code, but found out from a distributor that they use code 100, so that question has been answered. I was also told that the European sets generally run curves between 14 and 16.5" radii...So my idea of using some of the pieces from the PIKO starter set is pretty much out the window, with the exception of a few straight track pieces and possibly a turnout or two, but that may not even be possible. I was hoping to cut down our initial expense by re-using some track from this starter set, though.

Sorry for all of the newbie ???'s, but I'm really interested in getting started, and don't have a huge budget, but also don't want to tell my son we can do something if in fact we can't. Thanks for all of your advice and help!

Garry from Ann Arbor


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

1. yes you can . i used DPDT to switch between sources that feed the track. but this is temporary solution and its going away as soon as i get some more decoders. DCC is nice although i have to admit i will miss the precise feel that analog controller gives.
EDIT: must add this kind of setup is strongly not recommended by "wiring for dcc" website authors because of possibility of potentially frying decoders and booster.

2. from what i can tell so far one side is enough. at least if you use atlas and peco turnouts. (modified my shinoharas to do that as well) my entire layout is powered from single drop at the moment and i have 3 turnouts on mainline 

3. the stationary decoders i seen so far have manual override.so you remote turnouts can be operated by both DCC cab and separate "dispatch" panel.

as far as extreme curve track you have i don't think it is a big deal - just get normal one, track is not the most expensive part


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## A2Mich (Oct 25, 2009)

Tankist.....thanks for the reply and the answers. As far as track, I would probably re-use the straight track from the PIKO set and not chance the tight turns. From what I was told by a rep at Silvergate Dist, that the Euro trains are designed to run on the narrower radii curves such as the 14.5-16", and form what I can tell, most trains really need a minimum of 18, if not 22".

I had thought about the DPDT switch setup to switch between DC and DCC, but would wire that directly before the track feed to avoid any backfeeds from one power source to the other. My ONLY reason for considering this is that my 5 YO son will be using this set as well, and I don't feel that he will be capable at this time of using a DCC cab, hence the wanting to be able to run on DC as well.

As for wiring the turnouts for DCC, I probably wouldn't do that right away, and more than likely not until I feel that a DC setup is no longer needed.

So far, I haven't purchased anything yet. We're wanting to, but are holding off until we could get some of our questions answered and had enough $$$ to get what we wanted.

Thanks again for all of your advice.


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