# O Scale Switch - what is needed for....



## hootowl (Jan 31, 2011)

Hi Everyone. First, let me start by saying that I am not the owner of the train, but a friend trying to get answers for the owner who is a non PC person. Please excuse any incorrect lingo use.

So he has a very long track with one train on it. One transformer and many power tracks to keep the train moving along the track. Everything is O scale and it all works great and has for many years. 

He has put in a side track (turn out and back in) in one 10 foot section of the track and would like to have two trains running on the track, but only ONE AT A TIME. 

His question is, what does he need to make one train take the side track and then have the side track turn off, and have the other train that is on the straight track start up and go around, but when it comes around, the track shuts off and the side track turns on and the other train starts up. 

So two trains on one track, but only one running at a time. So one would have to go onto a side track and wait while the other comes around and vice-versa. 

He has the side track built, but needs to know what type of switching would be required to obtain the one train at at time senario.

Any suggestions?


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

The easiest way for him to do it would be to isolate the side track from the main track using fiber isolation pins. Then, run power to it separately and add an on/off toggle switch so he can manually power that sidetrack.

You can find the isolation pins at your local hobby store, or order them online. They're made specifically for isolating one section of track from another. You only need to isolate the center rail at both ends of the sidetrack.

You can then use the normal CTC clip-on to wire the power to the siderail.

For the power, run a second lead from your transformer to a switch, then from the switch to the clip-on. A SPST switch is all you need for this job. You can find them at Radio Shack.

Here's the box I put together for my layout. It does exactly the same thing, but I'm controlling the power to several track segments.


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## hootowl (Jan 31, 2011)

Is there any way to do this automatically? So that the trains going over the track or past the switch will automatically trigger the switches and the trains changing?


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

What switches is he using?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That question was brought up before in a ceiling track. You can have the switches switch automatically but you have to stop one train and start the other. The siding must have an entry and exit. Each section must be isolated with a switch. I have not figured out a simple way to do everthing automatically. Switching is half the fun.

The switches shoud be 022 or 1122, with an anti derailing feature. Those two are most common and the easiest.


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## hootowl (Jan 31, 2011)

Although he has switches on the current turnout, he has not yet used it. So to answer your question, I do not know. We are trying to find out what he needs to use to obtain the final results and if that means changing the current switches, he will do that. 

So I guess that giving any help from scratch, pretending he does not have the turnout made yet, and going from there would be the best way to proceed.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Like T-Man said, you have to have an entry and exit, and you'll be manually operating some of the switching and the power.

With 022 switches, the exit will take care of switching automatically, but you'll always have to operate the entry switch manually to select what path you want the train to take.

You can rewire other switches to do the automatic function too, so if he already has switches he might not have to buy any others.


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## hootowl (Jan 31, 2011)

So are you saying that there is no way to do this fully automatically? (with no human intervention?)


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

How much does he want to invest? You could step into Lionel's Legacy TMCC system. But you're talking about a large investment (hundreds of dollars) for limited gain. 

The simple approach needs human intervention at 2 points - one for power for the sidetrack, and one to throw the switch to direct the train onto the siding.


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## hootowl (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't think that money is an issue here, I think that he will do what is needed to get his wanted results. He just needs to know if it is possible and if so, what does he need to purchase to get his required results. 

He wants to run unattended, two trains on one track, with only one train running at a time. So he was thinking that a turnout that would switch power from one set of tracks to another as a train passes a specific point. 

So one train would go around and then as it hit a specific point, that track would turn off and the second train would start and go around, then it would hit a specific point and the first train would go around again. So the trains would take turns, going around the track.

Are there currently available products that would do this?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

First, it is not that simple. It can be done.
Read this thread to get up to speed. Your friend has a lot in common.
You can research Block Signals for more information.
You can also read the basic Manual in it's own thread. This will get you started.

Part of the hobby is just the research needed to accomplish what you want.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

That's a complex request! If you cut power to the engine it reverses when it's re-powered. If that wasn't the case you could use isolated sections of the track to trigger a dual relay latching circuit to make it flip flop between the locos and switches, still not easy. But with O you would need to change it over to, Lionel's Legacy TMCC system, to get it to work properly. Large investment and little gain.
Why not lay a second main line loop, sounds allot cheaper to me?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Who needs reverse. Yeah you lose that too when doing this. The point is automatic. My super reversing circuit does that but this is two trains same orbit. I forgot about the e unit setting Thanks! There may be more too!


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## hootowl (Jan 31, 2011)

Thank you for all your info. I'll read up a bit more and ask him more questions and maybe I can come up with more direct questions for you instead of such and open request.

I'll post here when I have more.

Thanks again!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I have the Lionel Legacy system (TMCC compatible) and some TMCC engines. This will do what he desires and much more. As mentioned, the engines run $200-300 on eBay, and the Legacy base system is around $300 as well.


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

erkenbrand said:


> The easiest way for him to do it would be to isolate the side track from the main track using fiber isolation pins. Then, run power to it separately and add an on/off toggle switch so he can manually power that sidetrack.
> 
> You can find the isolation pins at your local hobby store, or order them online. They're made specifically for isolating one section of track from another. You only need to isolate the center rail at both ends of the sidetrack.
> 
> ...


Can the same thing be accomplished using a transformer like a ZW instead of a SPST switch? Still use the isolation pins to separate the side track, and then use the CTC lockon to power this section from a separate set of terminals on the transformer? Are there any issues with doing it this way?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is the first step. Try to wire your switches that have anti derailing
to activate another switch. Look at switch A left and switch B right.
Going clockwise as train approaches A2 it will swtich B to 1 The on the second run A3 wll switch B4. To do this depends on what your switches are.










You can get electronic boards to do this but you have to shop for one.
The simplest is using a Block signal and isloated pins. Here you need two sets when you go with two trains. At this point I cannot tell you how to Exactly. I have gave the theory on running two trains on one circle.


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## Blk69 (Feb 23, 2010)

I am trying to do something smilar. My problem is I am running passenger cars with double pickups (one on each truck). Even though a section of track is de-energised, the dual pickups will keep the section hot till all the cars have based into the isolated section. This really drove me nuts when this happoned.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

Hootowl,

Well if he does not have the e-units hooked up this will work fine on
the old school plain jane locomotives.

http://www.rr-concepts.com/StationMaster/index.shtml

They also have videos on Youtube with this working. I had also seen
a video of it with S gauge no reason why it can not be made to work
with O gauge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQvdO9CzH1c

Please note that I have not used this product, I do not own the company
and I am in no way associated with anyone from this company.

Sorry if the links break the rules but the easiest way to get the information
to hootowl.

Good luck,

Pookybear


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## acwilli (Jan 29, 2009)

T-Man said:


> This is the first step. Try to wire your switches that have anti derailing
> to activate another switch. Look at switch A left and switch B right.
> Going clockwise as train approaches A2 it will swtich B to 1 The on the second run A3 wll switch B4. To do this depends on what your switches are.
> 
> ...


 T-Man has it nailed. What your friend is doing is really, very easy, and cheap.
Since money's not an issue, have him buy Greenberg's "Wiring Your Lionel Layout". Volume 1 would suffice, but I bought all three Volumes and am very happy with the outcome.
thx aw


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can do this with 3 blocks and block control. You don't need the turnouts. What you want to do may be covered in one of the Lionel manuals.
Bruce Baker


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## acwilli (Jan 29, 2009)

servoguy said:


> You can do this with 3 blocks and block control. You don't need the turnouts. What you want to do may be covered in one of the Lionel manuals.
> Bruce Baker


 Yes the Lionel manauls cover this situation and many others for the people willing to waste time, but your message is a little ambiguous. You're quoting Baker with no links to the solution. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just am. Not really I'm a huge fan of the real master, Peter Riddle. 
The simple control rail with simple turnout wirig covers this situation perfectly. I can describe it in detail if need be, but I'd prefer not to post anything that would infringe on cop writed material.
aw


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