# Track ballast



## Old Bill (Nov 28, 2013)

On my ho layout 40 years ago, I used fine sand for
track ballast. Is that what most everyone uses now 
or is there something new that is used now? I know
that use need to run a magnet over sand to make
sure there isn't any metal in it.
thanks


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## oldsarge218 (May 23, 2011)

I use Woodland Scenics small (fine) ballast in my HO scale layout. I suppose that if sand can be glued onto the roadbed, then that should work also. However, I think that sand would be very abrasive should it get caught up into the gears of your drive axles.
God Bless
Bob


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

lots of new materials available now, more variety, but i wound up using sand as well, bought a 50lb bag of fine blasting sand, used less than 10lbs, the bag had a very nice blend of different colored sands and i was quite happy with it...:


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

I have both Woodland scenics ballast and sand. My I suggest if you go with woodland scenics. Then get the fine & blended. And whatever color you like. The blend means there's different shade not just one straight solid color. I made the mistake of not getting the blend. And it cost me a bag of the dark grey fine ballast to mix with my light grey ballast. It gives you a more realulistic look on your bed. But sand is good too. I use sand for the rest of my layout since I'm doing a dessert theme. I got the sand that's made to mix for concrete so I used 3 different sized sifters and got 3 different grades. From fine sand-little pebbles-small rocks. Greatest $2.50¢ I've spent so far as, as cheap as the price for 50 lbs. but hey all that really matters is that your happy with how it looks to you. Besides sand you really have alot of options tho. Look online or on woodland scenics website. If you do go with woodland scenics?, get the jug it's like 53-57oz jug. Well worth it. You can get it for under $15. It just depends where u can find it. I say under $15 cuz I seen them at different shops and online at different prices but nothing over $15 for it. It comes in different colors and grades. Good luck my friend


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

this is the blended ballast







this is just the light grey fine ballast. Without the dark grey blended in. It looks ugly to me


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

I have not ordered my ballast, yet. But, I was thinking of getting mine from Arizona Rock and Mineral Company.

http://www.rrscenery.com/

They sell real rock ballast in various sizes and colors. I know that real rock ballast is heavier than Woodland Scenics' ballast, but my layout is already totally unmovable for other reasons.

Has anybody tried their products?


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Most anything could probably be used. I had been using Johns Ballast but ran out and will be ordering another brand, most likely Woodland Scenics as they have a color very close to what I now have down. 

For a log loading area I went out into my garden and took a shovel full of dirt, sifted it down to finer particles and used it and it came out pretty good.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

As others have said, there are many products out there, and for most of us, the important factors are going to be price and availability rather than "quality". Real tock tends to stay put better than other materials (nut shells -- as in Woodland Scenics), but I've found that proper pre-wetting solves this problem handily. You really do need to go with fine ballast or smaller. In HO scale, the average size of a grain of ballast is the size on a person's head, grossly out of scale (it should be about 1-1/2 inches)

I, too, have found that one color doesn't look terribly realistic. I used a combination of dry brushing, washes, and airbrushing to fix this.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> You really do need to go with fine ballast or smaller. In HO scale, the average size of a grain of ballast is the size on a person's head, grossly out of scale (it should be about 1-1/2 inches)


Let me see if I understand what you are saying. You are saying that the HO ballast the you order is about the size of the head on an HO figure. And that prototype ballast is only about 1.5 inches in size.

Did I get it correct?

I occasionally drive near the local CSX line. It appears to me that their ballast is much larger than 1.5 inches - maybe 3-5"?? The next time I go by the line I will get out and check out the ballast size.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There is one problem with the W/S ballast. It floats when you
apply glue. Some 'pebbles' cling to the rail side and must be
flicked away after the glue sets.

The Arizona rock products do not float. Wish I had used
them when ballasting some time back.

Don


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## Old Bill (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks for all of the replies. I will look at Woodlands mixed ballast
alone with other options.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MtRR75 said:


> Let me see if I understand what you are saying. You are saying that the HO ballast the you order is about the size of the head on an HO figure. And that prototype ballast is only about 1.5 inches in size.
> 
> Did I get it correct?
> 
> I occasionally drive near the local CSX line. It appears to me that their ballast is much larger than 1.5 inches - maybe 3-5"?? The next time I go by the line I will get out and check out the ballast size.


Yes, exactly. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Most hobby ballasts aren't graded by scale (HO, N, etc), but coarse, medium, and fine.

On the Amtrak NE Corridor, Providence and Worcester, and CSX lines near me, they use a very fine grade, on which the target size appears to be 1.5", with some larger chunks up to maybe 4" thrown in, but nothing that I couldn't easily pick up with one hand.

Also, make sure we're talking about the same thing. Ballast is the material that holds the ties in place and distributes the weight of the train. There is often much bigger stone used as part of the roadbed, as well as rip-rap to prevent erosion.

Be careful when you check that ballast. Being on railroad property (the right of way) is trespassing, as well as dangerous (a locomotive to the head will ruin your day really fast).


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> There is one problem with the W/S ballast. It floats when you
> apply glue. Some 'pebbles' cling to the rail side and must be
> flicked away after the glue sets.
> 
> ...


This is why I made the point about proper pre-wetting. If you saturate it first with wet water or (my preference) diluted rubbing alcohol, it doesn't float away on you.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> Yes, exactly. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Most hobby ballasts aren't graded by scale (HO, N, etc), but coarse, medium, and fine.
> 
> Also, make sure we're talking about the same thing. Ballast is the material that holds the ties in place and distributes the weight of the train. There is often much bigger stone used as part of the roadbed, as well as rip-rap to prevent erosion.
> 
> Be careful when you check that ballast. Being on railroad property (the right of way) is trespassing, as well as dangerous (a locomotive to the head will ruin your day really fast).


You make some good points.

1. Arizona Rock and Highball both grade their sizes by scale.

2. Good point about ballast vs. roadbed. Does that mean that we should be using two sizes of "ballast" one for between the rails and a larger size outside of the rails on the roadbed. Does anybody go to that much trouble? I don't plan to. I want to finish my layout while I am still around to enjoy it. I pay attention to prototype, but I do not get obsessed with it. My priorities are (a) trains that are at least approximately prototypical and that RUN WELL, and (2) realistic scenery -- especially the plants. All of my friends and family that see my layout have no clue about what is prototypical, and are not really interested on the details that make a model prototypical.

3. I am aware of the right-of-way and safety issues, but thanks for the reminder. My intention is to park at on the side of a rural road, walk onto the grade crossing and step off the end of it just for a quick look. In this area the track is very straight, and I can see a long ways in both directions.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MtRR75 said:


> You make some good points.
> 
> 1. Arizona Rock and Highball both grade their sizes by scale.
> 
> ...


Should you? As you point out, only if you want to. The whole area around the ties, inside and outside the rails, should be the fine stuff. On my layout, there are a couple of sections where the railroad runs on fills beside the Connecticut River, I use larger ballast and WS talus in fine and medium down below to represent the larger chunks that were used there. At the steamship dock in Old Saybrook, I use coarse talus to model the rip rap that helps prevent erosion. 

Sorry if I'm overly sensitive about behavior along the rails. I volunteer on the (real) Valley Railroad, and we often have yutzes walking on active track. A couple of weeks ago, we were driving the hirail truck along the northern section of the track, and scared the crap out of some guy who was walking his dog. We blew the horn, and he jumped about 3 feet in the air! He clearly didn't expect anything to be traveling on those rails. Most people mistakenly think it's abandoned.


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

DonR said:


> There is one problem with the W/S ballast. It floats when you
> apply glue. Some 'pebbles' cling to the rail side and must be
> flicked away after the glue sets.
> 
> ...


I thought I was the only one to have this problem. So much time wasted brushing all the ballast off the ties only to wet it with water n alcohol and then apply the glue. I thought it happened accidently. But I just let it dry n comeback and break off the few tiny rocks that floated. Now I see


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Chet said:


> Most anything could probably be used. I had been using Johns Ballast but ran out and will be ordering another brand, most likely Woodland Scenics as they have a color very close to what I now have down.
> 
> For a log loading area I went out into my garden and took a shovel full of dirt, sifted it down to finer particles and used it and it came out pretty good.


Do you glue the dirt down?


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Chet said:


> For a log loading area I went out into my garden and took a shovel full of dirt, sifted it down to finer particles and used it and it came out pretty good.


Real soil means you can grow real plants on it! Of course, you have to water them -- which would probably cause problems with your layout. And you have to find real HO scale plants. The only thing I know of that might come close is Japanese bonsai -- which is a VERY TIME CONSUMING hobby -- kind of like model railroading.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

BNSFcountryCA said:


> I thought I was the only one to have this problem. So much time wasted brushing all the ballast off the ties only to wet it with water n alcohol and then apply the glue. I thought it happened accidently. But I just let it dry n comeback and break off the few tiny rocks that floated. Now I see


No, actually, it's a fairly well known drawvack to the WS product. You can actually use this to your advantage, though. If you dribble your wetting agent and your adhesive on the ties, it will wash the ballast off of them.

it is not essential that you remove all the ballast from the ties. Prototype railroads always have a couple of rocks out of place.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MtRR75 said:


> Real soil means you can grow real plants on it! Of course, you have to water them -- which would probably cause problems with your layout. And you have to find real HO scale plants. The only thing I know of that might come close is Japanese bonsai -- which is a VERY TIME CONSUMING hobby -- kind of like model railroading.


Actually, if you're going to use real dirt, it's a good idea to bake it for about an hour at 250 degrees F to kill anything that might still be living in it. Depending on where you live, passing a magnet over it a few times to remove any metallic particles is a good idea as well.


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> No, actually, it's a fairly well known drawvack to the WS product. You can actually use this to your advantage, though. If you dribble your wetting agent and your adhesive on the ties, it will wash the ballast off of them.
> 
> it is not essential that you remove all the ballast from the ties. Prototype railroads always have a couple of rocks out of place.


I'm 6 months new to the hobby as in doing a layout. This is my 1st. Been into trains for over 25 years but just recently started my 1st ever layout. It's coming out nice in my eyes. Learned a few does n don'ts up to now. But didn't know that downside to the ballast on ties. I actually thought I missed a few spots when I brushes. Only questioned myself cuz I drink while I work. To me that makes it even more funner. And once I past that point of "I'm getting a little hammered" I quit for the night and just run my trains and try not to derail or crash them. It gets complicated lol


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> On the Amtrak NE Corridor, Providence and Worcester, and CSX lines near me, they use a very fine grade, on which the target size appears to be 1.5", with some larger chunks up to maybe 4" thrown in, but nothing that I couldn't easily pick up with one hand.
> 
> Also, make sure we're talking about the same thing. Ballast is the material that holds the ties in place and distributes the weight of the train. There is often much bigger stone used as part of the roadbed, as well as rip-rap to prevent erosion.


It has been a while, but I finally got to check the CSX ballast size near where I live. The ballast between the ties ranged mostly from 1.5 to 3 inches. The roadbed outside of the rails ranged from 2.5 to 4 inches. Lots of overlap in those two ranges -- most rocks were between 2.5 and 3. inches. No need for me to use separate sizes for inside and outside of the rails. Three inches roughly translates to about 1/32 inch (or about 1 millimeter) in HO scale.

Also, I did see (from my car) an area where the land dipped down, leaving the roadbed elevated over the surrounding land. The rocks near the base of the roadbed there were clearly larger than 3-4 inches -- the rip rap that you referred to.

So now I know what size I need. Now all I have to do is finish the trackwork and wiring so that I can get on to ballasting


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

BNSFcountryCA, you're preaching to one of the choir directors. When my former landlord and I decided to build a layout in his basement, the build ran on Pabst (he had a fridge in the basement and a tap on the kitchen sink). Good times, and a 10 x 12 starter layout sorta kinda kept growing and morphing. Great times for a lot of years, Can't remember how many times we didn't speak for days, and one or the other would get a "bright idea" or new car or building and it would be off to the races again. Some of the best ideas came while sitting back finishing the last pint and just looking at our "empire". Some of the worst, too, to be fair.


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

That really sounds like good times. Must of been a little hard getting a keg down stairs tho?


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## BNSFcountryCA (Jul 22, 2014)

Jesteck did you run DC or DCC?


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