# Unbelievably lousy new Lionel train



## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

My Cousin and I went to the Edison New Jersey train show Saturday and he bought a brand new little wood burner starter set from Lionel. Penn. RR passenger train with 3 cars. The guy would sell sets with just the train only or complete with track and transformer so my Cousin bought just the train for just $169.
We got back to my house around 9:30 last night after driving in a downpour for over 200 miles to try it out on my layout since he's already put his stuff away. First we just tried the engine by itself and it ran pretty smooth and quiet then added the tender with Railsounds and it spun just a little in the first turn then it seemed okay sounds, smoke announcments ECT. We checked the track for oil, all the wheels and traction tires, binding and obstructions, didn't see anything wrong so we put the 3 little 027 size lighted cars on and it will just barely move 1 of them let alone all 3. We checked all the wheels and things again and found nothing wrong.
This engine is obviously just too light and poorly designed weight distribution to pull anything at all (NOTHING). I can't believe Lionel released something like this, don't they test this stuff at all. I know these little wood burner sets have been around for decades and they can't all be like this but I can't find a thing wrong with the cars, engine or tender or anything whatsoever. It's just plain too light on the traction tires and there doesn't even look like there is any place to put some weight in it where it's needed to keep it from spinning other than to duct tape 1/2 of a brick on top of the cab. My cousin probably would have been better off buying the set with the transformer since he could have stuck it on the roof. Its just a little cheap starter set but you would think it would at least pull the train, It won't even attempt to move 3 cars.
Joshua Lionel would turn over in his grave if he saw this if he saw this pitifully engineered piece of junk from the great company he created and all the thought that they put into all their products back then:smilie_daumenneg:


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Put oil on the passenger car wheels and rollers (not much) and work it in a bit, wipe down the drivers on the locomotive even if they look clean. My brother has one of the Lincoln Log 4-4-0 sets and it easily pulls 6-7 cars before it starts slipping. Your locomotive shouldn't be any different, but I've heard that those cars in that particular set aren't the most free rolling and will probably require some break in time.

Do you have a locomotive that's a bit stronger? Hook it onto the cars after you lubricate them a bit and pull them around for awhile with it until they start rolling more freely.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd first check and see if the tender and cars roll freely by themselves on the track.

You might consider adding some weight to the locomotive as well.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

santafe158 said:


> Put oil on the passenger car wheels and rollers (not much) and work it in a bit, wipe down the drivers on the locomotive even if they look clean. My brother has one of the Lincoln Log 4-4-0 sets and it easily pulls 6-7 cars before it starts slipping. Your locomotive shouldn't be any different, but I've heard that those cars in that particular set aren't the most free rolling and will probably require some break in time.
> 
> Do you have a locomotive that's a bit stronger? Hook it onto the cars after you lubricate them a bit and pull them around for awhile with it until they start rolling more freely.


Edit to the above, put oil on the passenger car AXLES, not wheels. Oil on the wheels won't help much


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It would help with the slipping! 
My thomas train was bone dry when I got it. I did think it a bit unusual to have to oil it out of the box.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd first check and see if the tender and cars roll freely by themselves on the track.
> 
> You might consider adding some weight to the locomotive as well.


 We did roll each car and the tender and they all felt fine and far as resistance, binding 
ect. everything felt normal to me. We didn't oil anything yet thinking he might want to send it back but I can tell you the only thing that will help this situation would be a helper engine. You can even give it a pretty good shove and it doesn't move 2-3 seconds later & just sits there spinning and the cars roll pretty good on their own. The rear pick-up roller has what seems to be a pretty heavy spring on it which on this light little engine might actualy help lift it some reducing what little traction it has. Also the draw bar is bent in a way to actualy lift the engine instead of just pulling straight. Putting these 2 possible causes together on this little thing makes it totaly unusable.
I took the engine off the layout and held it upside down on 2 sections of track to make sure the pick up rollers weren't binding and holding the engine up a little but they could still move some more and they seem normal. 
The first thing I thought of was weight too but without tearing it apart I didn't see anywhere last night that had enough space to put enough that would do any good.
I just can't believe they make something like this that won't even begin to pull those 3 little passenger cars.
My Cousin is going to call the guy tomorrow and see if he will just refund him $50 or so instead of fooling with shipping and so forth on something that there isn't much that can be done to it anyway. It's just a lousy design and isn't really worth all the effort needed to change it. Just get a better designed and or heavier engine.. You don't expect much for a $169 train but you would think it would at least pull the cars for a little while till the motor would eventually burn up which is what I imagined would have been it's early demise. That isn't going to happen though because there isn't enough drag on it. 
I've seen some pretty cheaply made Lionel trains before with the plastic couplers and such, even had one years ago for my Son to beat around but even that little thing pulled it's 4 cars fine. You can even tell on this thing that just the tender alone starts to make it loose traction, just pitiful for a Lionel train that even though is all plastic actually looks fairly good but that's the direction everything seems to be going now days. They must not be paying their Designers and Engineers very much today at Lionel. They need another Joshua!


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

What you don't seem to realize is the basic design of that locomotive dates back to when Joshua cowen was still around. Other than the addition of a can motor and modern electronics, nothing has changed. 

It sounds like the drawbar is bent out of shape enough to lift the engine. Is there not a way to bend it back so the locomotive sits squarely on the rails?


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

santafe158 said:


> What you don't seem to realize is the basic design of that locomotive dates back to when Joshua cowen was still around. Other than the addition of a can motor and modern electronics, nothing has changed.
> 
> It sounds like the drawbar is bent out of shape enough to lift the engine. Is there not a way to bend it back so the locomotive sits squarely on the rails?


It doesn't seem to be bent out of shape other than the way it's bent from the factory with the tender mounting point at least 1/2in. or more higher than where it hooks to the engine and not twisted in anyway. I would imagine though that the old engines were a good bit heavier than these new cheap made ones but even then they have been making these plastic ones for a long time but probably getting lighter all the time. 
It's my Cousin's who doesn't have a lot of mechanical ability and I don't have it down here with me now to modify it somehow which you shouldn't have to do anyway but other than downhill this train ain't going nowhere


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

Rabbitman:

I have a MTH RailKing starter set (Broadway Special 30-4216-1) and the engine is a cast hunk of Zinc alloy (pot metal). It is heavy! It pulls its load of three passenger cars with ease. It would seem that a plastic engine would be too light to get good traction.

But I also have found on my permanent layout on which I run three different engines that whatever oil that is on the axles and gears migrates to the wheels and transfers to the track. Wiping the tracks with alcohol fails to get all the oil off the track since alcohol does not seem to dissolve the oil. I wrap a small block of wood with a small rag that has been soaked in Lacquer Thinner. I them wipe the rail top surface with the rag wrapped block of wood to remove the oil from the top of the track. Now, the rag must not drip Lacquer Thinner (and be only damp with Laquer Thinner). Be careful to not get any on the plastic roadbed or come into contact with anything plastic as it will dissolve some plastics. Keep moving the rag around on the block so that you always have a clean portion of the rag in contact with the track. The amount of oil you lift off the track will astound you.

LDBennett


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Weight = Traction

I have some small motorized units, my RMT BEEP and BANG engines come to mind. They have traction tires and dual motors, but they are unable to pull my track cleaning car because of the friction. OTOH, any of my diecast steamers or even the larger diesel units have no problem at all pulling the track cleaning car and a bunch of passenger cars as well.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Like I said, my brother has a locomotive just like the one in question that came in a set with 3 or 4 cars, plus he's added another 3 or 4 in addition. The locomotive has no problem pulling them. I ran the set on O-27 curves (much more drag on curves) all last December without issues. While I agree it's not the highest quality locomotive Lionel ever designed, and it was never meant to be, it definitely shouldn't have a problem pulling 3 cars. They sold them in a gift box set in the 1960s that weren't very expensive, so they've always been plastic lightweight locomotives. 

It really sounds like the drawbar needs to be bent down gently on the one above so the locomotive sits flat. Probably won't take much, but should work better once it is done. Lubrication should be expected with any new trains whether we like it or not. I always go through a new set with a small needle point oil bottle and oil every moving part. They also take some time to properly break in (this set sounds like it needs more breaking in than others)


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

I have a post war general set plus I added three other car to the set, the engine has no traction tires on it , all my track is Atlas , non-ferrous metal ,so magna- traction does me no good , the little engine does spin a little, if I throttle it up real fast, witch I do some times on purpose because they really did that in real life back in the day, BUT, when it gets going, its gone it pulls them so fast ,I think it may fly off the rails .
my big Z-4000 gives it all it wants, and then some.............Mike


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

A modern Lionel starter set, even the least expensive, should be able to pull it's consist. Was this a new sealed set? I know that's what you said but the box was open to the point he sold you the pieces so I'm wondering if this was a demo or something that had been circling the track all season in a store. Could be the traction tire is bad or worn down?


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

BigAl56 said:


> A modern Lionel starter set, even the least expensive, should be able to pull it's consist. Was this a new sealed set? I know that's what you said but the box was open to the point he sold you the pieces so I'm wondering if this was a demo or something that had been circling the track all season in a store. Could be the traction tire is bad or worn down?


 No it is an actually brand new set which he sells like that which I think is a great idea. I wish there were other dealers who would do that. I was here when my Cousin opened it up, it's brand new and no traction tire problem, that's the first thing I looked for.
I'm like you, I could understand if it was a kid trying to see how many cars the little thing would pull or a big more modern passenger train from a better set but it won't even attempt to pull the 3 little ones that came with it. It's almost funny the more you think about it but sad at the same time seeing Lionel doing something like that. Imagine some little kid getting that for Christmas being dissapointed after seeing that.
Imagine a guy going out and buying a new Kenworth or Peterbuilt tractor and being all excited about trying it out the first time and when he first hooks it up to an empty 40ft. flatbed trailer it just sits there spinning the wheels. That's about the way it was with my poor Cousin.:hah: We just laughed it off eventualy reminising about all the poorly designed junk we've gotten lately but this one tops the cake.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Rabbitman said:


> The rear pick-up roller has what seems to be a pretty heavy spring on it which on this light little engine might actualy help lift it some reducing what little traction it has. *Also the draw bar is bent in a way to actualy lift the engine* instead of just pulling straight. Putting these 2 possible causes together on this little thing makes it totaly unusable.


That's the key right there. The drawbar should NOT do that. I'd try a gentle bending of the drawbar on the loco and possibly the tender to correct it. It's not uncommon for slight production irregularities such as this. One way to add weight could be in the form of automotive "tape weights" they can be cut easily and come with tape installed. Be sure to avoid the steel ones as they interfere with electrical components.

Carl


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've had to bend the drawbars of Sunset 3rd Rail brass locomotives for proper operation, so it's not all that surprising that an inexpensive starter set might need it.


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

Rabbitman - you're so determined to be unhappy that I feel bad for you. Just bend the dam drawbar already, as recommended, and get happy.

I have the Coke 125th anniversary set, same loco different paint, pulls the three set cars along with a Lincoln Logs bunk car and the operating Bronx Zoo Giraffe car without breaking a sweat. Same with my four car Polar Express passenger set.

Pete


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

I bought the Lone Ranger set and it pulls the consist and the add on car just fine. I do remember having to bend the drawbar a bit and it has run great ever since.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Henning's Trains has the Lone Ranger set on the store layout, runs just fine with all the cars that are in the set.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

Texas Pete said:


> Rabbitman - you're so determined to be unhappy that I feel bad for you. Just bend the dam drawbar already, as recommended, and get happy.
> 
> I have the Coke 125th anniversary set, same loco different paint, pulls the three set cars along with a Lincoln Logs bunk car and the operating Bronx Zoo Giraffe car without breaking a sweat. Same with my four car Polar Express passenger set.
> 
> Pete


 My whole point to a lot of my posts lately is about the way the quality of so many of the companies that we have known since we were kids 60 years ago and some that have came along later has gone down hill so much that you almost expect it to have problems when you buy it and have to modify it or send it back within a week after you buy it. 
I can fix most anything other than the complex electronics systems myself which is why I watch this forum to see what other problems like this people are having and get ideas from what more experienced people do in these situations to fix it and other products there are out there to eliminate some of these situations from happening and lastly what products to avoid all together which there seems to to be very many of lately.
Nothing would make me happier than for these companies CEO's, Quality Control Managers and Designers to read these posts here to see the problems so many of us here have which seems to be very consistant with their products and how their decisions to cut costs are making many people avoid their long respected companies altogether. I'm sure they get plenty of E-mails everyday about this already though and I'm not the first upset customer. 
Sure I can bend the draw bar or put on a different style one, take the body off and find a place to stick a few ounces of weight here or there to make a little thing like that usable at least. Maby after a few years here I might actualy know how to test a resistor on a circuit board and know where to find one and replace it learning from people like John and others on this forum who have a vast experience about these types of problems and obviously devote a lot of time on here to help us all which believe me is truly appreciated. I'd like to take a course, read a book or work around somebody like that to learn those type of things and then be able to fix other things we buy today that don't last long enough to collect dust on them anymore. But the bottom line is that a 6 year old who gets one of these little trains for Christmas shouldn't have to be expected to know how to do all that already to make it even 
usable and hopefuly keep it running untill at least New Year before it goes up in smoke. But on the other hand when it does he might say, " Hey Daddy, I't's Smoking Now Finally"


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

This is not a new problem. I remember the XMAS of 1950 getting an Erector set. How could that get screwed up? It had a motor and the motor did not work. The motor had to go back to be repaired or replaced and it took weeks. I was devastated as in those economic times of my family that was it for my Xmas presents. That was an American made product from the so called "Golden Age" of American manufacturing. How about the 1952 Mercury that my dad bought "new". It had engine problems (rings that never seated) and it was later revealed to have been a Ford test car, repainted after many miles of use (speedo set back), and sold as new. Laws today keep that from happening today.

The world is populated by people who are imperfect and greedy by nature. That occasionally some of their products come out slightly wrong should be no surprise. If your supplier falls to get things right all the time change suppliers. Lionel does well most of the time but makes mistakes like all other manufactures. There are a few of MTH's products that I have had problems with but for the most part they are good stuff. Try MTH if you are tired of Lionel problems or vice versa.

But I too subscribe to being the squeaky wheel. Sometimes it works and other times it does not. I usually fix anything that is wrong with a new product if it fails and can be easily fixed. I hate waiting for companies to get me my product back if I send it in for repair. But sometimes there is no other choice but for the thing to go back. A simple thing like bending a draw bar seems like a fix easy to do. Try it.

LDBennett


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Rabbitman,

I get your frustration, I really do. I've spent a large portion of my life, and career in the auto repair field. Much of that in dealerships doing warranty work. I can't count the number of times a "brand new" vehicle needed work, door not sealing, transmission not shifting, etc. I had many items over the years that didn't work as designed, it's simply how it is, sadly enough. The people building them are human when all is said and done, and humans are inherently imperfect by nature. 

Sad state of affairs, I've come to expect certain amounts of tweaking may be needed to get things to work. I'd be willing to be, even going back to Lionels "glory days" things had to be massaged a bit right out of the box. It would be nice if everything we bought was 100% perfect and ready for 50 years of service, but that's not reality.

Carl


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

Rabbitman - If you want even a prayer of the manufacturer seeing your problem you should post it to the OGR forum or contact Lionel directly. Suggest a phone call (it's free!) rather than an e-mail.

Personally, I see this particular situation as trivial and easily resolved, but it would appear that you'd rather just keep on complaining.

Pete


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

Texas Pete said:


> Rabbitman - If you want even a prayer of the manufacturer seeing your problem you should post it to the OGR forum or contact Lionel directly. Suggest a phone call (it's free!) rather than an e-mail.
> 
> Personally, I see this particular situation as trivial and easily resolved, but it would appear that you'd rather just keep on complaining.
> 
> Pete


 Yes this a very trivial situation and if it was mine and here with me I'd have fixed it 3 days ago. It's just that it belongs to my Cousin who is hopelessly mechanicly declined for lack of a better word. So yes I'll stop whining about this little $50 engine since it's not mine anyhow and really isn't even worth messing with as far as I'm concerned. What is upsetting to me though is this MTH warranty mess that evidently a lot of us are dealing with and Lionel's too for all I know. I haven't heard anybody here say anything about Lionel's turn around times though. Maby their better engines don't have near the problems that MTH's new ps3 stuff has. 
Seriously though wouldn't you have just at least wee bit of concern about buying a new PS3 Imperial or Premier engine from MTH for a minimum of $400 today{Premier is about 3 times that} knowing right off the bat you're not gonna see it for months if you have to send it in for an electrical problem and some of us have sent them in twice already since the begining of Dec. and then have nicks in the paint on top of it when you get it back and then send it in again after 3 days for something else. Yes I agree that every now and then you will get a bad apple in everything you buy but they evidently have a lot of problems and should be giving refunds or exchanges of somekind if they want to satisfy their customers and keep them coming back. I want to go back but am afraid to. This is obviously a widespread problem and some sort of refund or exchange program should be talked about. My Dealer did exchange my first one but then the second one went bad twice too. And to top it off evidently from another post on here MTH is still saying they have an average 10 day turnaround time. Anyone here got one back that fast, if so that's the kind of engine I'd likely buy from them next because they obviously have parts for it.
I'd like nothing more than to go over to my buddy's Train Store and buy or order a new F3, F7 or something similar from that era Western Maryland diesel with ps3 if I thought I had at least a 60% chance of it lasting more than a month but it would feel just like I'm loaning money to somebody who's already beat me out of it 3 times already. Does anybody other than Lionel or MTH make something like that with Command and even just basic engine sounds. I like the Williams trains but I don't think they have any type of Command systems do they? But that's the reason I'm getting a Powermaster for the Legacy Command Base 1-L so you can run the more basic engines by remote and at least blow a whistle or something.
It's just a shame you can't trust the more advanced engines anymore though. What's your track record been with anything new from these companies been in say the last 2 years or so with the new ps3 system or Lionels high priced Legacy engines that are way out of my price range. I'd would be nice if you could buy new ps2 stuff in a store instead of having to take a chance on Ebay ect. ,maby there is one that does still have some.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I had to send a new Lionel Legacy remote back for service. Had a replacement in my hand in less than a week of my sending mine in. I know they're working on moving their service center to their central headquarters in NC, so things might be screwed up for a bit, but I've never had an issue with service from Lionel. Although most of my locomotives have been purchased used, so I may be a minority.

You can install Lionel TMCC (even with cruise control) and Railsounds 5 into williams locomotives with kits from Electric RR Co. which will give you command.

Train shows are a good place to purchase used equipment. All of my command locomotives except one were purchased used at train shows at big discounts from when they were new. And they weren't beat up when I purchased them either for the most part. There's usually a test track there to try things before you even leave the show (or purchase it in some cases). Being a member of a club operating a layout at a show has even more advantages. I can plop a new purchase on the track and test all its features as soon as it's in my hands.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

santafe158 said:


> I had to send a new Lionel Legacy remote back for service. Had a replacement in my hand in less than a week of my sending mine in. I know they're working on moving their service center to their central headquarters in NC, so things might be screwed up for a bit, but I've never had an issue with service from Lionel. Although most of my locomotives have been purchased used, so I may be a minority.
> 
> You can install Lionel TMCC (even with cruise control) and Railsounds 5 into williams locomotives with kits from Electric RR Co. which will give you command.
> 
> Train shows are a good place to purchase used equipment. All of my command locomotives except one were purchased used at train shows at big discounts from when they were new. And they weren't beat up when I purchased them either for the most part. There's usually a test track there to try things before you even leave the show (or purchase it in some cases). Being a member of a club operating a layout at a show has even more advantages. I can plop a new purchase on the track and test all its features as soon as it's in my hands.


 That's good to know about Lionel being like that with their warranty issues if it's needed. I didn't realize till just recently you could get kits like this to do these kinds of upgrades which has me pretty interested now. I like the idea of getting the older engines at the shows too which are sometimes actually new for 1/3 the price of a new one and then add to it yourself. I think I'm going to start with a Williams and see what happens.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I have two Williams steam locomotives and think they're great. One of them has put in many hours of run time on a public display I do at Christmastime, and I recently reworked the other one to make it more suitable as well, so it will also be running this year.


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## Wowak (May 30, 2012)

Rabbitman said:


> My whole point to a lot of my posts lately is about the way the quality of so many of the companies that we have known since we were kids 60 years ago and some that have came along later has gone down hill so much that you almost expect it to have problems when you buy it and have to modify it or send it back within a week after you buy it.
> I can fix most anything other than the complex electronics systems myself which is why I watch this forum to see what other problems like this people are having and get ideas from what more experienced people do in these situations to fix it and other products there are out there to eliminate some of these situations from happening and lastly what products to avoid all together which there seems to to be very many of lately.
> Nothing would make me happier than for these companies CEO's, Quality Control Managers and Designers to read these posts here to see the problems so many of us here have which seems to be very consistant with their products and how their decisions to cut costs are making many people avoid their long respected companies altogether. I'm sure they get plenty of E-mails everyday about this already though and I'm not the first upset customer.
> Sure I can bend the draw bar or put on a different style one, take the body off and find a place to stick a few ounces of weight here or there to make a little thing like that usable at least. Maby after a few years here I might actualy know how to test a resistor on a circuit board and know where to find one and replace it learning from people like John and others on this forum who have a vast experience about these types of problems and obviously devote a lot of time on here to help us all which believe me is truly appreciated. I'd like to take a course, read a book or work around somebody like that to learn those type of things and then be able to fix other things we buy today that don't last long enough to collect dust on them anymore. But the bottom line is that a 6 year old who gets one of these little trains for Christmas shouldn't have to be expected to know how to do all that already to make it even
> usable and hopefuly keep it running untill at least New Year before it goes up in smoke. But on the other hand when it does he might say, " Hey Daddy, I't's Smoking Now Finally"


Your experience is not typical, and your story raises some questions as to the actual condition (new vs. used) of the set in question. Dealers aren't keen to break up sets and sell the parts individually. Methinks you got duped into buying someone elses problem, but choose to crucify Lionel instead of facing the possibility that you made a poor decision. Honestly the symptoms described of not being able to pull it's own consist makes me wonder if the traction tires are missing, or if your "hopelessly not mechanically inclined" brother has done something to affect the performance of the set. As GunrunnerJohn stated, other examples of this set DO NOT exhibit the poor performance you describe. Why do you think that might be?


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

Wowak said:


> Your experience is not typical, and your story raises some questions as to the actual condition (new vs. used) of the set in question. Dealers aren't keen to break up sets and sell the parts individually. Methinks you got duped into buying someone elses problem, but choose to crucify Lionel instead of facing the possibility that you made a poor decision. Honestly the symptoms described of not being able to pull it's own consist makes me wonder if the traction tires are missing, or if your "hopelessly not mechanically inclined" brother has done something to affect the performance of the set. As GunrunnerJohn stated, other examples of this set DO NOT exhibit the poor performance you describe. Why do you think that might be?


Weight and Weight distribution. They made these little cheap woodburner sets in the 70's or 80's that didn't even have traction tires at that time but they pulled the 3-4 light little plastic coupler equipped cars that came with it back then. I had one for my son and my cousin has the remains of one from back then also. I looked at his old one the other day and there is no groove in the drive wheels at all for a tire but back then they didn't even need one obviously and the drawbar looks pretty much the same too.
These little passenger cars aren't big at all but just heavy enough to make a drastic difference. It actually does run a little better on FastTrack than Tubetrack though and will at least keep moving if you baby it enough and give it a little push to get it going.
They just need a little weight, not a big deal at all and easily fixed by a kid if he wanted to. You just shouldn't have too right out of the box. It's not bent, it's not broke, it's not missing any tires, it's just too light for a Railsounds tender and 3 passenger cars without modifying it. They just should have included the optional brick and duct tape kit in this passenger car version with Railsounds set instead of having to purchase it separately and things would be fine. He'll probably get one this week if Lionel has anymore in stock. I just hope there isn't going to be a wait on that too like everything else.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

If were trying to turn this thread into a MPC era bashing session my only comment is, that train has long ago left the station.

It's well into a different century and two owners have passed through to get where we are today. Did you ever post the model number of the set or pictures? I would like to see what we are talking about to better understand what the problem could be.


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

From the complainant's description I'm thinkin' it's this one.

Pete


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

Texas Pete said:


> From the complainant's description I'm thinkin' it's this one.
> 
> Pete


 Yes that's the one. I don't think 4 traction tires would help that little thing but then we would have a different problem wouldn't we?


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

From his video description:

"Here is my new toy. I hadn't lubed the cars yet, and I think that's why it had problems starting out. Now that I lubed them, it works great."


As stated already several times, fix the drawbar so the engine sits square on the rail (traction tires will do nothing if they aren't even in contact with the rail) and lube the axles and pickup rollers. Lubrication should be done to any new train, even in a starter set. Considering these sets come all the way from China, then set on a shelf in a warehouse then the store, lubrication dries up somewhat.

Not sure I can provide any more proof that those things need to be done and the set will be fine :dunno:


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

OK I looked it up on Lionel's web site. Here is a link to the manual.http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/6597730224250PennsylvaniaLtd.pdf

This is a low end starter set but it does have smoke and lighted cars and the engine should be able to pull the cars. A set like this was intended to come out of the box Christmas morning and run around the tree. I noticed that the set does come with a replacement traction tire. Did your seller pass that along to you? That's the only explanation for the poor performance I have is the tire needs to be replaced.

I also understand why the dealer chose to break up the set as the transformer and FasTrack are probably worth more than the train it'self.

The quality of these low end starter sets is poor I agree, however that is no excuse for the trains performance. One other idea is are you trying to run this on O27 track? The set was designed for FasTrack and the O27 curves may be a few inches too tight for the train.

In conclusion I have 3 ideas:

Replace the traction tire and try it on FasTrack
Send it back to lionel for service in case the motor is defective
Put it up for sale on ebay this fall and buy somthing else

Good luck,


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Traction could be different on Fastrack as well. The rounded top of tubular is different than the profile of Fastrack. I know that I experienced an issue with the old MTH RailKing S2 Turbine on tubular track, it had trouble pulling it's tender, and you could forget about trying to pull any cars with it! This was a very heavy locomotive with two traction tires. Put it on MTH Realtrax and it pulled fine, but I didn't have Realtrax, and had no plans on getting any.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

BigAl56 said:


> OK I looked it up on Lionel's web site. Here is a link to the manual.http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/6597730224250PennsylvaniaLtd.pdf
> 
> This is a low end starter set but it does have smoke and lighted cars and the engine should be able to pull the cars. A set like this was intended to come out of the box Christmas morning and run around the tree. I noticed that the set does come with a replacement traction tire. Did your seller pass that along to you? That's the only explanation for the poor performance I have is the tire needs to be replaced.
> 
> ...


 We first tried it here at my house on 42 in. radius tubular track, it does run slightly better at his house on some Realtrax he set up to try it. But needs a lot of help to make it around the loop one time. I'm really not much bothered about the thing myself and don't have it here at my house to tinker with and I can't do very much at my Cousins place with him there wringing his hands like I'm performing brain surgery on his first born child while I mess with it at his place which has almost no light on top of it. I just wanted to get the boiler off the other day while I was at his place and find a place where we could stick some wheel weights inside somewhere but I never managed to get it off after I took the 2 screws out. He had an older version of this engine and with the 2 screws out the body lifted right off but this one hangs up in the back and I was afraid to do much prying or twisting with him standing there watching like I was gonna scratch the paint on his new Cadillac or something. It's just to nerve wracking to try to do anything in there.
Obviously they will run with a little work from the one shown in the video and he even has an extra car too and on O gauge track as well. The little bit that I've played with it while it was here the first night all points to it being a lack of weight problem on the back wheels which is made worse by the spring tension on the back pick-up roller trying to lift the little thing. The tires are new and clean but can't do much if they can't get a bite with no weight on them which is a simple fix If I get a chance to mess with it by myself without him watching every move, you know how that is. It is a cute little train with the old time passenger cars which are lighted and has Railsounds and doesn't even smoke bad for what it is (which isn't much) but you can't expect much from those cheap little engines. I think about 2-3 oz. extra weight inside the cab on the roof would do wonders for the little beast and again if I ever get a chance to mess with it by myself it will get done, I just can't do anything at his place and that's another ball game all together.
But again as we have both said the bottom line is YOU JUST SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO A NEW LIONEL TRAIN TO MAKE IT PULL IT'S INCLUDED CARS IN THE FIRST PLACE RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, but sadly now you do. You don't expect one of these cheap little things to last long but it should at least make it around the track on it's own. 
It's not about me, it's not about my Cousin, it's all about how everything we've always known and respected in the past has gone downhill so much it's pathetic. We know Lionel still makes great trains and they're the biggest name in the business and I hope they stay on top but to let something as simple to fix as this in the Quality Control Dept. {if they still have one being made in China} slide is just plain sad. I'm sure they make enough profit on those $2000 BIG BOYS to afford 3 cents worth of lead in each of these little Cheapies so Johnny can at least see it go around the tree a few times before he acidently steps on it and crushes it. But then that would expose the lead and Lionel doesn't need any lawsuits because of Johnny eating his broken new train. I guess it's one of them CATCH 22 SITUATIONS, damned if you do and damned if you don't! Man, this thinking about eating trains is giving me an urge to go out and lick the paint off my new Southern Pacific Daylight passenger train. All them pretty colors on it would just have to taste good, and lead free paint to boot. It just don't get no better than that.:laugh:


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

santafe158 said:


> From his video description:
> 
> "Here is my new toy. I hadn't lubed the cars yet, and I think that's why it had problems starting out. Now that I lubed them, it works great."
> 
> ...


 That sure goes to show that the proof's in the pudding and I'm sure I can get this one going too, it's just that it's not mine and not here with me to tinker with a little. But thank's for taking the time to shoot a video and post it. I don't know how to do the pictures, links and video things yet but it would make some things and questions I have at times be easier to explain. His does run a little better on Realtrax but needs a lot of help but I see yours is doing well on O gauge and even has an extra loaded car as well. The one my Cousin's has a weight problem from the spring tension on the back pick-up roller actualy holding the engine enough to make it loose traction with just 1 car running on my 42 in. radius 027 track. I just can't mess with it because I don't have it here. I do like those old time passenger trains though.


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