# It's done........sort of !



## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

I’ve decided to go PW with all 0-27 rail and 1122 switches. Thanks to you guys I’ve got all my old rolling stock lubed, track cleaned and basically ready to go. My 1033 transformer has been overhauled. The 2055 locomotive and tender have also had the once over at a reputable hobby shop. I have tested everything on a simple double loop. Everything including switches appear to function well.
So here is my question. I have a layout in mind and am in the process of laying it out to check dimensions etc. before I fabricate a table. I expect the table to end up being about 5X10. My planned layout is a long loop with short passing siding on both sides. I switch to the middle to allow for a siding. My problem (remember I am using O-27 tubular) is that there are gaps say 3 to 5 inches. Is it normal to have to cut a piece of track to fit? Am I missing something ?

Ken


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

0-27, 1122, 1033. My man! You just described my layout to a T. 

I have plenty of cut sections. 

Hack away and send pictures.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

A lot of the job is planning. You are off to a good start. Yes you can cut tracks to fit. You can also buy 1/2 tracks. You can cut them with a dremmel, hacksaw or even clip them with a good pair of diagonals.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

After cutting tracks for 60 years, I prefer the Dremel tool. Use a cutoff wheel and cut through the tube. Then bend the track and the web will break. Then bend the track back and forth until the flange at the bottom breaks. Then clean up the break with the Dremel tool. Wear eye protection and work inside a box so you don't have a mess to clean up.

I use O-31 tubular track and I have a whole box of cut sections. I even cut down some 022 switches so I could make a yard with the track much closer together than what I could do with standard switches.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The dremel does cut clean.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> A lot of the job is planning. You are off to a good start. Yes you can cut tracks to fit. You can also buy 1/2 tracks. You can cut them with a dremmel, hacksaw or even clip them with a good pair of diagonals.


OK...great.....just thought I might be not be approaching this in the correct manner. I know there are 1/2 tracks but even these would not solve all the probelms I am seeing. Is there anything special you have to do to the cut peiece to ensure the pins connect properly? There wil not be much cutting....two or three peices at the moment. I don't have a dremmel.....think this is a good excuse to splurge?

Now back to fitting.....and possible expansion!


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Dave Sams said:


> 0-27, 1122, 1033. My man! You just described my layout to a T.
> 
> I have plenty of cut sections.
> 
> Hack away and send pictures.


Pictures....of course. Just have to figure out how to post......oh and find my camera!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I found the dremel is a must for running trains. Brass brushes can clean the weels easly. Just ware safty glasses like seroguy said ( wires fly off and cut off disks break) . My dremel is an off brand bought at costco for abot 30 $ works fine. As for the pins I pushed them in and squeezed the bottom with a neddle nose plier. Some one will have a better way ( I made my layout without knowing about this forum. I also bought some anti rust/ ellectrical condution gel at home depot. I put it on all the pins on my track. I think it helps but if its not nessecary some one here will let you know.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> After cutting tracks for 60 years, I prefer the Dremel tool. Use a cutoff wheel and cut through the tube.Wear eye protection and work inside a box so you don't have a mess to clean up.


Servoguy started working in boxes a long time ago. 


Here he is testing out his first work box.
And wearing goggles. :thumbsup:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Big ed, you are like john madden with a telestractor!


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Ah.....not sure about this box thing....!


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Well....got back to work and started cuttting/fitting. A lot easier than I thought. I ended up using a hack saw. I have the layout basically done for now. Just started wiring.

A couple of question though. First, a couple of the 1122 switches are slow to change at least in one direction. There does not seem to be any "binding" since they switch easily when you rotate the lamp. Where do I start to troube shoot?

Second, how do I wire the coal loader. Presumably you use fixed voltage from the 1033....post B-C? Note that I do have the 364C switch. Oh....and I am a real novice as far as wiring and electronics go!

Back to work.....look forward to some advice.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I never had a 397 coal loader but the book says.

The coal loader operates on either AC or DC on voltage ranging from 12 to 15 volts, with the lowest possible voltage giving the most satisfactory operation.

Any power source may be used for the loader, but when the transformer is used for both the track and the loader it is important that the outside track rails and the loader binding post which is grounded to the metal base be connected to the same post of the transformer. Otherwise a short circuit may result when the coal loader base touches the track.

I guess all you have is the ground and a hot? 
It doesn't tell/show that in the book. 
Do you have an extra little transformer to run it off?
One of the cheap Lionel transformers? 

Do you have a manual?
Did I waste my time typing all this and you have it?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That coal loader also manages to shoot coal all around the base of it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That coal loader also manages to shoot coal all around the base of it.


That is for realism, the real coal loaders had coal all over the place.
Even the RR cars threw coal all up and down the track in transit.

I knew an old timer (he is gone now ) who told me as a kid in the mornings he would walk the tracks with a box or pail to bring back coal to heat his parents house.
Sometimes they did it as a family thing, they collected quite a bit of coal from the tracks behind their house that way. 

Do you know the proper way to hook it up to run John?
My book doesn't tell that part, but it looks like just a ground and a hot.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, there are only two wires, it just runs the motor that runs the ratchet that bumps the coal up the ramp, then the conveyer belt loads it into the car. The ramp that is clicking away bumping the coal up the hill tosses it over pretty regularly.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It is easy, one wire from the fixed voltage point on the 1033 ( higher end like ed said 12-15 volts) to one point on the controller, then continue from the other controller connection to the coal loaded. The next wire goes from your ground ( u,?) to the other connection on the coal loader. The switch ( I don't have one) is like a light switch and breaks the power from the coal loader. As for the switches maybe try a little oil on the switch where it moves I'm not really sure?


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

big ed said:


> I never had a 397 coal loader but the book says.
> 
> The coal loader operates on either AC or DC on voltage ranging from 12 to 15 volts, with the lowest possible voltage giving the most satisfactory operation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info Big Ed. No you did not waste your time. I hvae no manuals, just memories of the mid 50's when I was a kid. And these memories are not much help by the way! I do not have another transforemer but my 1033 did the job way back then. Just have to figure out how to wire it. Again, thanks for your info.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> It is easy, one wire from the fixed voltage point on the 1033 ( higher end like ed said 12-15 volts) to one point on the controller, then continue from the other controller connection to the coal loaded. The next wire goes from your ground ( u,?) to the other connection on the coal loader. The switch ( I don't have one) is like a light switch and breaks the power from the coal loader. As for the switches maybe try a little oil on the switch where it moves I'm not really sure?


Where would you oil the switch? the plunger perhaps?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's the manual for the remake, other than the added yard light, it's the same as the original.

Lionel 397 Operating Coal Loader


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Here's the manual for the remake, other than the added yard light, it's the same as the original.
> 
> Lionel 397 Operating Coal Loader


Thanks John. That will be helpful. I never thought of using variable voltage to achieve the desired rate of loading. If I do that, should I not be able to use a lock-on as a power source?


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

OK....more problems. After using a temporary lock-on to get all the switches wired properly and working I know have a dead short. Where do I start on thsis one. I have alll the lock-ons disconnected at the moment.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Two suggestions: I wrote a post on restoring 1122 switches. It is on this forum. The plastic of the 1122switches is soft and cold flows causing the crimp connections to get loose and to get hot. To fix this requires removing the bottom plate. 

To make a tight connection between track sections, hold a section of track with the pins facing away from you. Bend the left rail near the pin to the left and bend the center rail to the right. This will put contact pressure on the pins when they are inserted into the holes in the adjoining section. This works better than Lionel's recommend procedure.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Servoguy is the best on switches, as for the dead short, it could be anything, recheck the wires making sure they don't touch. Test each switch to make sure there isn't a loose wire. Check the insulating material on the center rail. It looks like a peice of paper. If this insulation is damaged the power will flow to the outside rails creating a short. I also used a rust inhibitors / electrical conducter on my pins when connecting my track. As to whether or not it helps I don't know, but my track runs great.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

servoguy said:


> Two suggestions: I wrote a post on restoring 1122 switches. It is on this forum. The plastic of the 1122switches is soft and cold flows causing the crimp connections to get loose and to get hot. To fix this requires removing the bottom plate.
> 
> To make a tight connection between track sections, hold a section of track with the pins facing away from you. Bend the left rail near the pin to the left and bend the center rail to the right. This will put contact pressure on the pins when they are inserted into the holes in the adjoining section. This works better than Lionel's recommend procedure.


Thanks, I will look it up.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> Servoguy is the best on switches, as for the dead short, it could be anything, recheck the wires making sure they don't touch. Test each switch to make sure there isn't a loose wire. Check the insulating material on the center rail. It looks like a peice of paper. If this insulation is damaged the power will flow to the outside rails creating a short. I also used a rust inhibitors / electrical conducter on my pins when connecting my track. As to whether or not it helps I don't know, but my track runs great.


I did have everthing working. I disconneted all my lock-on and still have the issue. I will check the switches next and possibly sections of track at a time. This may take a while. Very frustrating!


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

One way to check for frustrating shorting track sections is to use just one power lockon and starting there at source, disconnect and re-connect various track groupings until you find the one that has the bad section in it. You can even pare down like this to determine which section it is. Sure enough, it's time-consuming, but you will find the problem.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I agree with Ishmael, take it slow and carefully and eventually you'll get it. It's frustrating at first but when it's done it's worth it. ( and you get a little confidence Boost to boot. )


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks guys....I found it. After taking about a third of the sections apart it turned out to be a switch. The bulb was not in correctly and shorted out. All back together and I've now done a few loops and reverses. 

I need to read up on Servoguy's servicing of the switches since two of them are slow to switch. I'll get at that in the next couple of days.

One other thing though. I have two uncouplers/unloaders. Both work to unload a car but only one will uncouple. Where do I start on this issue?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Tundraboy, it depends, there are two different types of remote control track, ucs which has an electro mmagnetic Center and rails for slide pick up shoes, and rcs which only has controls for slide pick up shoes. Some trains have pickup shoes which activate the couplers. Some can only be coupled with the magnetic disk. While the track with the disk in the middle can be used with both type couplers ( it also has the extra rails) , the one with rails only can only couple cars with pick up shoes. After that it's looking into the cars wiring ( for the pick up shoes) or couplers for the magnetic kind. I hope this helps a little. If you can pick up a copy of greenbergs repair and operating guide for Lionel Trains. It has lots of info, diagrams and part numbers for 1945-1969. Almost a must own if you have trains from that era.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Folks....I think we are making progress, thanks to all of you.

I lubed the two 'slow' swithches and I'm seeing significant improvement. I will keep an eye on them but I now think they are working normally. While I did this I lubed the rest of them....just because...!

I wired up the coal loader using a lock-on. It seems to work as designed.....messy as gunrunnerjohn sugested it would be. Funny I don't remember it being that way back in the day as a kid. Oh well the grandkids thought it was neat. I may try some Lionel coal since the Railking stuff I happened to have seems very fine and 'sticky'.

I checked the couple/uncouple controllers and I got them to work. The contact springs may need some adjustment, but I think I have a handle on this issue.

I am using a 1033 Lionel transformer. I noticed that when I activate the whistle the lights blink and no whistle. I have the A post connected to position 1 on the lock-on, U to position 2. The tender was checked before and was working. Any thoughts on this symptom? BTW, with all 8 swicheds and the two bumpers I am getting about 13 volts to to the track U to A. Is that about right?

As sjm9911 suggested I have ordered a copy of Geenburg's book. I should have that in a few days.

Still more fiddling, but I do now have action. Thanks for all your help.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Glad to hear you are up and running, try reversing the wires on the transformer going to the track. That might fix the whistle. I use aquarium gravel in my coal loader, (fish tank stone). Look for some the same size, then I run it through the loader, whatever stone doesn't make it up and out gets tossed. My gravel doesn't make a mess, and I don't even have the top shield on it.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> Glad to hear you are up and running, try reversing the wires on the transformer going to the track. That might fix the whistle. I use aquarium gravel in my coal loader, (fish tank stone). Look for some the same size, then I run it through the loader, whatever stone doesn't make it up and out gets tossed. My gravel doesn't make a mess, and I don't even have the top shield on it.


Great idea on the aquarium gravel. I will give it a try.:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For the 1033, the U post goes to the center rail, and the A goes to the outside rails. I forget what the numbers on the lockon indicate, but you can look and see if they're going to the right place.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks John. I do have it hooked up correctly. I did try swapping the leads but it made no difference for the whistle. 

What kind of power should I see at the tracks? I have 8 1122 switches and two bumpers hooke up at the moment. At best I see about 15V at the transformer. With the 2055 at best I get is about 12 to 13V.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

With a 1033, 16 volts is pretty much the top of the range, so 15 volts is not bad.

The only thing I can say about the whistle is try it with a different transformer and/or in a different location. On old trick that might work is as follows.

Disconnect one lead and connect a 1.5V D-cell battery in series with the track power, try it both ways. One of the ways should sound the horn.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, the polarity of the DC for a post war horn doesn't make any difference.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I know that Bruce, just covering the bases when he gets a modern one.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Maybe we need a sticky on fixing whistles and horns. We seem to be getting a lot of questions.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Servoguy, you would be hitting the nail squarely on the head. Even tho I've toyed with and occasionally fixed a few postwar horns and one postwar whistle, it's complicated enough to leave one feeling, "I don't know how I did, but I guess I did it"... Please include some info./suggestions on horn/whistle relays, too, because they are usually a part of the fix or adjustments, if you decide to do a how-to. I, for one, would be very grateful, and only one of very many.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> Maybe we need a sticky on fixing whistles and horns. We seem to be getting a lot of questions.


Bruce, we have a sticky for information and how-to's, that's the appropriate place for it: Looking for Information?

If we start sticking every useful thread, you'll have to go through pages of stickies to get to active thread.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I should check out that sticky to see what is there.


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