# Help please, with N scale unitrack on 5x9 layout loop



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Hello everyone'

I could use some technical help in figuring out how to fit Kato unitrack on a 5x9 layout. I presently have a HO scale "worlds greatest hobby" set on the layout which would fit on a 4x8 table, with all the extra room plus the interest I have also in N scale I want to run a outside loop around the "WGH" set, the problem is Ive spent countless hours researching how to achive this using unitrack, which I don't believe is possable..I'm hoping im wrong and is why im reaching out. I spoke to Kato USA and they told me that there V6 add on set will do the job but after looking deeper into it I don't think that would work as I belive its only 2.5 feet wide which wouldn't work with the HO set. Is my only option to use flex track to achive what I'm looking to acomplish? I'm hoping not as I'm still a newb and very intimetated by the whole soldering and cutting, wiring...ect... But, if that's my only option then I will definitely try or maybe scrap the N scale outside loop and just go with a HO loop. Was really looking forward though to put the N tracks down.

I do apreciate your help and time and hope someone could ease my pain...

Thank you


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

So, if I understand you correctly, you just want to add a single loop of N scale track around the outide of your existing layout. I must be missing something, because it doesn't get any easier than that. 

You simply need enough corner pieces to make a complete circle. For ease of installation, this will be the same or greater radius than your existing curves. Split that into four 90 degree sections and place them at the corners. Now, get enough straight pieces to connect all the corners. Bam! Done.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Just looked up the V6. It's a good start, but you'll need some more straights to give you enough length. A rough guess says you will need about another 11-12 feet of straight sections.

The curve radius in the V6 is only 13-3/4", which means you'll need a lot of room between your tracks. I would recommend buying the track a la carte and using their 19" curves, to fit outside your (presumably) 18" HO curves.


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Thank you for your reply...yes, that is my delema, which does seem easy but I just couldnt figure out, I visited my LHS and they told me that it would not be possable to create, as the N scale track would curve eventually into my existing HO track...so this is where I got frustrated because I know it has to work.
So now that I know it is possable in a unitrack...sorry for my ignorance but I'm not understanding what you mean in your post that I must do to achive this..

Again sorry for not getting it I just don't know what pieces to buy...

Thanks again


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

I get what you mean in regards to making a complet circle, then split that in half, then quarters...put the quarters into the corners and connect the stright pieces...but wouldn't the ends of each corner be curved slightly thus enabling me to go stright?

I also tryed searching for "the track a la carte" can't seem to find what set that would be, would you have a link?

Thank you kindly


----------



## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

What he means is to buy single pieces of track, not some kit or set.
I don't do N scale but you'll need at least 19" curves to go outside an 18" HO curve. 
22" would be better but I don't know if they make them. It takes 22" HO to fit around 18" HO curves. 


Magic


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Thank you for your help...things are a lot clearer now....
So what gum going to do is start with the curve pieces then connect the stright pieces next to creat the outside loop....lastly, when you say 19" or 22" curves are you referring to an actual piece of curve track that is a 22" or 19" ?

Thanks again


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Your LHS isn't thinking out of the box either (a common problem with LHS employees these days). Assuming you're NOT trying to connect the two tracks (which IS impossible), adding a loop is easy.

We are referring to the actual radius of the hypothetical circle made by the track. The 19" radius comes in 15 degree segments (1/24th of a circle). There is also a 28" radius piece, which might work (only 54" compared to your desired 60" width). The part number for a 4 pack of 19 inchers is 20160, and you will need 6 packs (to make a circle).

To connect the "corners", you will need straight sections, P/N 20000 (for four 9-3/4" pieces). Now I'm spitballing a little, because I don't know exactly how everything will lay out, but I'm guessing 2 for each short end and 8 for each long end, for a total 20 (5 packs). If you need something a little shorter, they also make 7-5/16" (P/N 20010), 4-7/8" (P/N 20020), and 2-7/16" (P/N 20040). The only trick here is that you have to substitute symmetrically, so if you use a 4-7/8" track on one side, you must use one on the opposite side as well (but since they come in 4 packs, this won't be an issue).

The other thing you will need is a terminal track to connect the power supply. The only one I see is P/N 20041, which is 2-7/16" long, which means you'll need to pick up a pack of the 2-7/16 track at the very least to put a corresponding non-terminal length on the opposite side from the terminal track. For a layout of this size, one terminal track will be sufficient.

I hope that is clear enough to get you started.

And just because I'm curious, is there a Track Pack for the WGH layout, so that you didn't have to piece it together from sectional track purchased separately? EDIT: Just answered my own question (there is). I understand the situation now.


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

this is actually starting to make sense to me know...sorry for my lack of understanding and I thank you for your patience with me.

ok, so, to maximise my desired 60" with, I would need a radius of 28", which would give me roughly 54" of use, which would free up 3" on both sides to the edge? if im understanding this correctly.. but to achieve this I would use part number 20150 instead of the 20160 to get the larger loop. you had mentioned to use 20160, but that would be a smaller circle then, 19", (hope im correct), because I would like to maximise the real estate and if I do go with the 20160 then it would be a smaller curve. would I still need 6 packs to make the complete circle in the 20150?, if so, then I would quarter it into each corner......
now, if im correct so far, I would proceed and purchase the rest of the parts you had mentioned so I can complete the entire loop? these parts would still be in play? or would it now change with the bigger curve?

I want to really thank you for your breakdown in laymen terms im starting to see the light now
I guess buying my WGH set it was all done for me so this is where I really needed the help in the part numbers you supplied, it really simplified it for me and I have a greater understanding now.

Im powered by DCC so, when i add my one terminal track, could i just splice the wire and attach it to the HO terminal wire which runs directly into my DCC unit?

thank you


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

I see some people here are assuming the Kato track in the Kato HO scale "Worlds Greatest Hobby" set is 18 inch radius. It's not, it's R490mm (19.25 inch) Radius. Kato does not make a 18 inch radius curve in HO scale. 

In my humble opinion, for best looks the N scale Kato track should be wider then 490mm (19.25 inch) HO track, unless the looks don't matter to you. Nothing wrong with that, it's a hobby after all. You could get by with the N scale 481mm (19 inch) radius. But if you are concerned with the looks, you will need the 718mm (28.25 inch) radius N scale curves. The 28.25 inch radius gives you a diameter of 56.50 inches, measured between the rails. Once you add overhang for the roadbed, the overall width is exactly 57.5 inches. 

Part number 20-150, which is 718mm (28 1/4") Radius, each piece is a 15º Curve Track. You get 4 pieces in a package, which makes a 60 degree turn. You would need exactly 6 packages, which is 24 pieces of track, to make a complete circle. Then add enough straights to make an oval. 

Then just use enough of the various length of straights (as needed) to connect the curves. 

Here is everything they make, in regular N scale track, to help you plan.

http://www.katousa.com/N/Unitrack/g-single.html

As for the power hookup, Kato makes the part number 20-041, which is 62mm (2 7/16") Feeder Track. The wire is 35 inches long. That looks like this:










If you don't want to use a special feeder track piece, Kato also makes part number 24-818, which they call a Terminal UniJoiner. It has the standard Kato power pack connector on one end, and the Unijoiners (with 35 inch long wire) on the other end. You could use this instead of the special feeder track. To use the terminal joiner, just remove the regular unijoiners from a regular piece of track, and replace with the terminal unijoiners. You can also use this in all curves, along with all straights.

Here is a picture of that. 










Since you use DCC, I believe you should be fine with your idea, to "splice the wire and attach it to the HO terminal wire which runs directly into my DCC unit". 

Howard


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You're right, Howard, I was assuming it was 18" radius, because I'm familiar with the layout and it usually is. I wasn't aware that Kato made a track pack for WGH until about 1:00 this afternoon.

So, timb, you're correct on the P/N for the 28-1/4" curves. Do you see how it says "15 degrees" after it. Remembering that a circle is 360 degrees, that's how you know that you need 24 to make a circle (24×15=360). The tighter curves come in 30 degree segments (1/12 of a circle), and the tightest even in 45 degrees. 90 degrees is a corner. Because the circle now takes up more space, you will need correspondingly fewer straight segments to connect them -- none on the short ends and 5 on the long ends, plus the terminal track and a corresponding short piece on the other side (or use the terminal unijoiner piece).

I agree with Howard that with DCC, you can just nip the connectors off and splice the wire into your DCC output.


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> You're right, Howard, I was assuming it was 18" radius, because I'm familiar with the layout and it usually is. I wasn't aware that Kato made a track pack for WGH until about 1:00 this afternoon.
> 
> So, timb, you're correct on the P/N for the 28-1/4" curves. Do you see how it says "15 degrees" after it. Remembering that a circle is 360 degrees, that's how you know that you need 24 to make a circle (24×15=360). The tighter curves come in 30 degree segments (1/12 of a circle), and the tightest even in 45 degrees. 90 degrees is a corner. Because the circle now takes up more space, you will need correspondingly fewer straight segments to connect them -- none on the short ends and 5 on the long ends, plus the terminal track and a corresponding short piece on the other side (or use the terminal unijoiner piece).
> 
> I agree with Howard that with DCC, you can just nip the connectors off and splice the wire into your DCC output.



I model in both HO and N scales, both with Kato Unitrack. I like it, because it's almost bulletproof. I also have both the HO and N scale Walther's catalogs, and also a full size Kato catalog (in Japanese language) and a few Unitrack pamphlets in English language. So I have a good idea what is available.


By the way, I made a few edits to my previous post, adding some pictures, and correcting a couple mistakes I made.

Howard


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks Howard for chiming in with the explanations and the pics..it really helps, alsoCTValleyRR for your patience and thoural explanations also , its MUCH appreciated. I understand what you guys are saying, I'm sure I'll fully grasp the whole idea once I get my hands working and start seeing it all come together

I'm definitely going with the 28-1/4" curves and going to pick up 6 pakages of the 20150 with no other pieces to make the two short ends. Once I establish the short ends I will start attaching the stright pieces to finish the loop and splice it all together. I Will post a update once I get out to pickup what I need in a couple of days...my frustration is calm and I think I have a clear Handel on achieving my N scale outside loop....phew!!

You guys are great and thanks for the willingness to help....


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Howard1975 said:


> I model in both HO and N scales, both with Kato Unitrack. I like it, because it's almost bulletproof. I also have both the HO and N scale Walther's catalogs, and also a full size Kato catalog (in Japanese language) and a few Unitrack pamphlets in English language. So I have a good idea what is available.
> Howard


Howard, I agree with liking Kato Unitrack...it's great to work with and so forgiving...., that's why my delema because I was told by my LHS that I could not do what I was trying to acomplish with unitrack and that I would have to use flex, somthing I know nothing about...but I'm sure some live by and love it. I hope to have the knowlage once I gain the experience after changing the layout eventually. I'm incorporating both my HO and N scale together and just having fun with it, I think it will be a lot of fun and can't wait to see it rolling. I'm going to search throught the link you provided and check out all that is available to me and maximize my knowlage and products.


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

I also love working with Kato track, it's so easy to try different ideas on a table, and see how I like it. I just build temporary layouts at this stage anyway. Sooner or later, I'll get around to building a more permanent layout. I might use flextrack on that, I don't know yet. But right now, Kato Unitrack is perfect for my needs, and is great track. 

I agree with you, it's a hobby, so just do whatever gives you enjoyment. I'm in it for the enjoyment. I'll do whatever makes me happy. I don't care about the latest fads, or keeping up with the neighbors. Or what other people do, I'll do it my way. Me personally, I like durability and reliability, and value for the money. 

On the Kato website, you can find more products (in both HO and N scales), by looking at the top of the page, the green icons in that menu. Shows everything Kato sells here in North America, including track, accessories, trains, etc. 

And good luck,

Howard


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Your summed up the reasons I like unitrack also neatly. My layout table is good for me now wile I play around and learn/have fun..ect.. But I got sooo much room in my basement I would like to eventually build somthing quite larger....but that will come in time..hopefully sooner then later, in the meantime I'll probable pick up a few pieces of the flex to learn on..sodering ect..

I'm going to check out the Kato USA website and spend some time there checking out all the goodies...

Thanks again for your help and input, you and CTValleyRR really helped me out tremendously..
Great stuff..

Thanks


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Timb said:


> Your summed up the reasons I like unitrack also neatly. My layout table is good for me now wile I play around and learn/have fun..ect.. But I got sooo much room in my basement I would like to eventually build somthing quite larger....but that will come in time..hopefully sooner then later, in the meantime I'll probable pick up a few pieces of the flex to learn on..sodering ect..
> 
> I'm going to check out the Kato USA website and spend some time there checking out all the goodies...
> 
> ...



You're welcome. 

I wish I had a basement to play with, but I don't. I'm an apartment dweller, I already don't have much room, plus I'll probably be moving within a few years. So right now, I basically have to stay with temporary layouts, or build very small portable layouts. 

Maybe in the future I can buy a home (with a basement) and build my dream layout. But that is just a dream for now. Anyway, I enjoy what I'm able to do with my Kato Unitrack. At least it stays together, unlike the track I used before.


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

You


Howard1975 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> I wish I had a basement to play with, but I don't. I'm an apartment dweller, I already don't have much room, plus I'll probably be moving within a few years. So right now, I basically have to stay with temporary layouts, or build very small portable layouts.
> 
> Maybe in the future I can buy a home (with a basement) and build my dream layout. But that is just a dream for now. Anyway, I enjoy what I'm able to do with my Kato Unitrack. At least it stays together, unlike the track I used before.


Howard, I do hope you do get a place with a basement when you do move, and hopefully it's sooner for you so you can build a more permanent layout and all the other stuff but untill then have fun. 

Not sure what track you used before but I was fortunat to start this hobby with the Kato unitrack so it what I started with and find it great to work with. My dad had flex ect.. And ran N scale and I got into HO but he got sick recently, and before he passed he gave me his pride and joy N scale locos and I told him I woul incorporate them int my HO layout and it brought him joy knowing his locos would be used then to be tossed to the side.

That's why I'm really trying to achive this..


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Timb said:


> You
> 
> Howard, I do hope you do get a place with a basement when you do move, and hopefully it's sooner for you so you can build a more permanent layout and all the other stuff but untill then have fun.
> 
> ...


 Sorry to hear your dad died. It sounds like a wonderful idea, to incorporate his pride and joy N scale equipment into your HO layout. Like you said, it's a good way to honor his memory, instead of just tossing it away.

Well, it will probably be some time before I can get myself a home with a basement. I hope I can buy myself a house, or even build one, sometime in my life. But right now, I can't do that.

When I was a kid 30 years ago, my dad built a typical 4x8 foot table HO scale layout, with the typical sectional track from that era. Mostly brass track you found in 1970's era train sets, with track from Atlas, Bachmann, Life-Like, etc. Also train-set type locomotives and freight cars with horn-hook couplers from Bachmann, Life-Like, AHM, etc. Everything bought used, to save money. That particular layout only lasted a few years (around 1982-1984), and was dismantled soon after. I kept all the trains in some boxes. Later on in life, as an young adult, I used that exact same stuff. Eventually I bought some better track (mostly regular Atlas nickle silver), and some better locomotives and freight cars (stuff like Athearn). It's decent track, but does not stay together on a temporary layout. 

Hence my reason to try the Kato Unitrack. It's so much better for my needs, at this time in my life. 

Maybe when I eventually get a home (with a basement), I'll finally be able to build my dream layout. On that future layout I will probably use flex track, and Peco turnouts (switches). I might also experiment with building my own switches, from pieces of rail, and wooden ties. It's a whole lot cheaper to build a good functioning switch, compared to buying one commercially made. A new Kato (or Peco) switch is easily $15 - $20 US dollars, at the discounters. When I buy used on ebay, I can save some money, when I find a good deal of course. If I make my own turnouts from scratch, it can be done for a few dollars each (for the raw materials, minus any electric switch machine). Especially if I buy used flextrack and remove the rails. 

It's something I have never done. But I might try it eventually, to learn those skills. 

But before that, I should try my hand at building a small layout, like a 2x4 foot N scale layout, or perhaps a N scale layout on a 30 in. x 80 in. hollow core door. With that I would probably use Peco switches and flextrack, and foam (or cork) roadbed. 

Currently I have both N and HO scales, and also a few pieces of Lionel O scale. I think have too much variety, in my opinion. So I have decided to model in only N scale, and sell everything else. I think it will be better for me to focus on just one scale, N scale. Especially since I'm an apartment dweller. I can always reevaluate my plans, as needed, in the future. 

That is my plan anyway.

Howard


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Howard,
I see the need to use Kato unitrack vs the older type track, expecially on a temp layout, it's so versatile to use and the setup take down would be at ease when your not stationed. To me it's a little intemidating yet I have the urge to try, I guess I must keep an open mind to what is available and with the flex I won't be confined to the radiuses ( to a certain point )and size restrictions opose to just playing with the track in a way that I like moving it around as I will. I'll probably get a piece to play with, it's good to learn and I think would be fun, also I'll explore the many possibilities of this grat hobby, I might give it a try once I roll out a new layout some time in the future. 
Sounds pretty cool as it regards to you learning and trying your hand at making switches and turnouts....you seem to really find the way to maximize every aspect of layouts, I need to learn lots in this hobby and hope to learn my self how to make turnouts and switches.

I see your point in focusing on one scale, makes sense and it probably would Be better but it's pretty cool the fact you've explored the varietys of scales. 

Your future layout seems like fun and hope the best for you to see it come to pass, I have a lot of ideas myself but I'm going to slowly evaluate all my options so I don't regret anything. So many options but I keep a open mid and keep inspired by all the beautiful layout here and I'm just soaking it in and hopefully I can pull somthing off that would bring loads of fun..

Seems like a plan anyway..

Best regards
Tim


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Timb said:


> Howard,
> I see the need to use Kato unitrack vs the older type track, expecially on a temp layout, it's so versatile to use and the setup take down would be at ease when your not stationed. To me it's a little intemidating yet I have the urge to try, I guess I must keep an open mind to what is available and with the flex I won't be confined to the radiuses ( to a certain point )and size restrictions opose to just playing with the track in a way that I like moving it around as I will. I'll probably get a piece to play with, it's good to learn and I think would be fun, also I'll explore the many possibilities of this grat hobby, I might give it a try once I roll out a new layout some time in the future.
> Sounds pretty cool as it regards to you learning and trying your hand at making switches and turnouts....you seem to really find the way to maximize every aspect of layouts, I need to learn lots in this hobby and hope to learn my self how to make turnouts and switches.
> 
> ...



That is very true about track like Kato Unitrack, which have an integrated roadbed which lock the pieces together, compared to the older style of tracks, which don't lock together. The older type of track is perfectly fine for a permanent layout, when it's glued, nailed or spiked down. It will stay together just fine. But with a strictly temporary arrangement on a table, or the floor, the track pieces come apart because only the rail joiners are connecting the track to each other. 

Which is why I love Unitrack, because it stays together so well. 

On a permanent layout, any type of track can be used, depending on modeler preference. One person might use flextrack, another might use Kato Unitrack (or it's cousins such as Bachmann EZ track, or Atlas True Track), another person will hand laid his own track and turnouts, and some people use a combination of track types (whatever is available at the hobby-shop that day). 

I definitely want to try different things, and expand my skills and knowledge. I want to learn how to use a soldering iron (I've only used it a couple of times), and learn how to spray paint with an airbrush. Also want to learn how to lay my own rails, and make my own switches from raw materials. Also want to learn how to scratch build some buildings. You get the idea.

I happen to like all types of trains (such as diesel, steam, trolley), all scales, even foreign trains. I have interests in North American trains (which I see everyday). But I also have interests in foreign trains from Europe, Asia, South America, Australia and Africa. Both the full size, and models. I also like the old style trains made in the 1930's which my grandfather might have played with as a kid (very old Lionel, Ives, American Flyer, Marx), along with Post War Lionel from the 1950's my dad would have played with; and also the modern trains available today in N and HO scales. 

I'd love to visit Europe, Japan, Australia and other places, and ride on their trains. Maybe one day I will get the chance. 

I do have a small collection of European HO scale Marklin trains (they are 3-rail AC powered, just like Lionel); and I also have a few N scale Japanese trains. Along with my American stuff in HO and N scales. Plus a small amount of Lionel 3-rail in O scale. Maybe I'm crazy, haha. Crazy about trains. 

I think need to focus on on a single scale and theme. My mind wonders around too much, lol. But it's okay, because I'm learning, and enjoying myself a lot. I love trains, always have. 

Howard


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Wow you weren't kidding when you say your crazy about trains...that's awesom though, I wish I had a ton of trains from different scales and different countries... I grew up with the trains you would see in North america. I used to go with my mother to my grandfathers house at least once a week to help him with things and we would talk trains and take a trip into his yard, in his back yard there was a slight hill we used to toboggan down in the winter but on the other side of the hill was a train yard with tracks going throught the boarder of his property so I'd sit there and watch them all day wishing one day I will be a conductor, still in my heart really, but it was cool to see the different box cars and locos, but I schould open up to the reality of a world wide scale and the differences of trains that run this globe, Europe, Aisia..ect.. I get lost in the hobby stores with the amount of stuff that's in there and the desire to own it all...ha.

I also would love to visit Europe and surrounding countries, I have family in Melbourne Australia, yet I've never been, they have just come here to visit and being from Italy, I will go soon, once I can save the high cost in travel, but my family does want to desperately go and one day we will.

Right now I just own in HO is my MTH 1225 Berkshire, my pride and joy..love the detail and the dcc sound, I know it's not for everybody but I like it and so do my kids. In N, I have a few Locos that I inherited, as I mentioned but I don't know what they are, I've serched but to no avail yet..I'll conduct a more thoural search shortly, I'll post a pic to see if maybe you could shed some like on the identity of these trains...


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Here's the other pic, I couldn't upload more then the one pick on the last post for some reason...


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Timb said:


> Wow you weren't kidding when you say your crazy about trains...that's awesom though, I wish I had a ton of trains from different scales and different countries... I grew up with the trains you would see in North america. I used to go with my mother to my grandfathers house at least once a week to help him with things and we would talk trains and take a trip into his yard, in his back yard there was a slight hill we used to toboggan down in the winter but on the other side of the hill was a train yard with tracks going throught the boarder of his property so I'd sit there and watch them all day wishing one day I will be a conductor, still in my heart really, but it was cool to see the different box cars and locos, but I schould open up to the reality of a world wide scale and the differences of trains that run this globe, Europe, Aisia..ect.. I get lost in the hobby stores with the amount of stuff that's in there and the desire to own it all...ha.
> 
> I also would love to visit Europe and surrounding countries, I have family in Melbourne Australia, yet I've never been, they have just come here to visit and being from Italy, I will go soon, once I can save the high cost in travel, but my family does want to desperately go and one day we will.
> 
> Right now I just own in HO is my MTH 1225 Berkshire, my pride and joy..love the detail and the dcc sound, I know it's not for everybody but I like it and so do my kids. In N, I have a few Locos that I inherited, as I mentioned but I don't know what they are, I've serched but to no avail yet..I'll conduct a more thoural search shortly, I'll post a pic to see if maybe you could shed some like on the identity of these trains...



Yeah it's very true, I'm crazy about trains. It's one of my favorite hobbies, along with riding my bicycle and playing with my computer. 

Wow that sounds wonderful, your grandfather lived that close to a train yard. That had to be exciting for you, to see the trains up close. 

My dad used to work for a railroad (before I was born), but he did not stay very long. I believe he was a brakeman. He did not like the hours much I guess, or being called at anytime of the day or night for an assignment. 

I have never worked for a railroad, but I did get to ride as a passenger everyday the rapid transit "L" commuter train here in Chicago, for a few years (for school and work). I always enjoyed that. 

I also have the same feelings when I'm in a hobby store, I want to buy everything. I get the same way in a computer store. 

Only once have I been outside the United States, when I went on a trip to Uganda in Africa, two years ago. It was quite an experience for me, in so many ways. Anyway, I did see a couple trains there. The country does not have many trains, only a small amount. But then again, it's a small and poor country. 

I desire to see many countries (and the trains, along with old castles and other tourist attractions) in Europe, and Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and Canada. 

How long have you owned your MTH 2-8-4 Pere Marquette 1225 Berkshire? It looks very nice in the pictures I found online. Do you have the MTH DCS controller, or a DCC controller from another brand? 

By the way, you have some very old N scale locomotives. The green 0-6-0 steam engine was made by Arnold Rapido of Germany, it was introduced in 1967. It's amazing, I have that exact same model, just in a different paint scheme. I have a Union Pacific model, it's all black. But mechanically, it's the exact same model. Here is more information about that model we both have. Yours is called an "old timer" while I have the "switcher" model. 

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/arnold060.html

Your second locomotive, the blue SD-45, was made by Mehano (Yugoslavia) and imported into North America by various companies (at different times). First imported by Atlas in 1969, followed by PMI in the mid 1970's, and later Life-Like and Model Power. Con-Cor also imported that model, with a slightly improved mechanism. You have the very first version imported by Atlas for a few years, from 1969 until the middle 1970's. It came with 4 traction tires, and is powered by only two of the six axles. Here is the link to that model. 

http://www.spookshow.net/yugosd45.html


Regards, 
Howard


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

That's pretty cool your dad worked in the yard... I herd of a. Guy who was also a brakemen' but as you said the calls were always at all times, which is what it is but he moved on to be a pilot. 

I used to work on the Go train here in Toronto, it wasn't long but it was cool as I rode up in the loco, and walked in Bombardier where the built the cars ect... It was an experience that I did enjoy..I tell yw, somthing about trains just gets most going. I love the early stuff, the good old steam engines..ect.. 

My MTH Pre Marquete 1225 Berkshire is my pride and joy, just love the look and detail..I think they did a fabulous job with it. That's what pushed me over the edge to jump right into the hobby, I just had to have it when I saw it in the hobby store 3 yrs ago so my wife bought it for me for Christmas, what a joy that was, this year would be the 3rd year I've had it. I was so confused though when I bought it as to what cab to buy, I knew that MTH has there DCS but after a lot of research I didn't think that would be a good idea as I would be pretty much confined to MTH products and I didn't want to limit my self to one brand...then I was debating between the Digitrax or the NCE powercab...I found the NCE was more updated and easy to use so I bought it and I've never regretted it, just love it, the functions are easy to use. I'm sure I would have been good either way, but happy.

Thanks for identifying the locos I have and the links, good to know the history on them, I know my dad told me he had them for a wile so I knew they were old I just couldn't find nothing on them, but now I can do some research done and find out all I need to know.. Thank you for that, I apreciate it. 

I have a single piece of track sitting here and I plugged in an old DC unit I have here, attached the two wires and just held them with my hands to the rails on the track, on the one, the lights came on but never moved when I pushed the lever, and the other one never moved either...
I'm thinking the hookup might need to be more then " hold the wires in place ". But I'm going tomorrow to pick up the Kato track I need, that we discussed earlier, to build the outside loop. I'm going to get 5 packs of the 20150 to build the 28 raidius circle then place then on each short side and from there I'll try and figure out what I need to finish the strights on each long side. Once I do, I'll try again with the two locos and see if they move then.


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Timb said:


> That's pretty cool your dad worked in the yard... I herd of a. Guy who was also a brakemen' but as you said the calls were always at all times, which is what it is but he moved on to be a pilot.
> 
> I used to work on the Go train here in Toronto, it wasn't long but it was cool as I rode up in the loco, and walked in Bombardier where the built the cars ect... It was an experience that I did enjoy..I tell yw, somthing about trains just gets most going. I love the early stuff, the good old steam engines..ect..
> 
> ...



That sounds like fun, you were able to ride inside the trains when you worked for Go Train, and also were able to visit Bombardier where the cars are built. Cool.

I did a little reading about the HO scale Proto Sound 3.0 MTH locomotives. With all the MTH locomotives in HO scale, you can operate them with either the special DCS controller MTH makes, or any compatible DCC controller, (like Digitrax, NCE, and others). Also you can also control the train with an old style analog DC power pack. 

I'm glad you love that MTH Pre Marquete 1225 Berkshire your wife got you for Christmas. Hopefully it will work great for many years, and be enjoyable for you.

Your vintage N scale locomotives will need a DC power pack, as you know. As long as you have a reliable and solid connection in the wires between the power pack and the track, the electricity will travel to the train. The connections should all be clean and tight, not loose. Also the wheels on the locomotives and the track needs to be clean. Model trains don't like dirt. 

For a very temporary connection from your power pack to your N scale track, you can use alligator clips like these, to make a connection. You will need two of them. Use the alligator clips until you get some N scale Kato Unitrack. 










If you are still having problems with your locomotives (after you clean the wheels), and you have clean track, and tight and good connections for the wires, then you need to open up the locomotive (take off body shell), and look inside. Sometimes it's an easy fix, like a broken or loose wire. Often with old locomotives that have been sitting in the box for a while, the old grease and oils get hard and dry, making it hard to work. You might need to remove all the old lubrication, even on all the gears and clean everything. Which means, sometimes you need to take the entire locomotive apart, to a bunch of parts. Once everything is clean, then apply a tiny amount of grease on the axles, and maybe a tiny amount of oil on the armature on the motor. There should be plenty of advice at this forum, from questions people have asked in the past, about engine maintenance. 

Sometimes old locomotives have broken or cracked gears, and sometimes in the worst cases, the electric motor itself is very weak, or even has died. Motors can get burned out. 

Hopefully you will be able to get your locomotives working again. 

Howard


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks Howard,

I'll take the advise and try again with the clips, I managed to get some track but the hobby shope didn't have enough so I bought what I could, I'm going to give the locos some cleaning and try again, they are a lil dirty from storage but we'll see what happens. In the mean time I'm going to do a thoural search on the site to get proper cleaning procedures. 

Thanks


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Timb said:


> Thanks Howard,
> 
> I'll take the advise and try again with the clips, I managed to get some track but the hobby shope didn't have enough so I bought what I could, I'm going to give the locos some cleaning and try again, they are a lil dirty from storage but we'll see what happens. In the mean time I'm going to do a thoural search on the site to get proper cleaning procedures.
> 
> Thanks


The alligator clips (using any available track piece) are basically a very quick way to test a locomotive, when you don't have a permanent layout -- or a special work shop area for testing. You can even hook up a 9 volt battery to a piece of flex track with the alligator clips, to test a particular locomotive. It's a quick and easy method. If the headlight is working but the train refuses to move, then you know the problem is in the motor, electronics (such as DCC chip), or gears. If the old lubrication on the gears sits for too long and becomes dried out, it becomes a solid, thereby making it extremely difficult or impossible for the engine to move. 

Here are some websites I found, which give advice for cleaning and maintenance. Some of the advice is plain and simple, and some is more technical and involved.

http://www.mapcon.com/understanding-model-train-maintenance 

http://modeltrains.about.com/od/modelrailroadtrains/tp/trainwontruntrbl.htm

These next too deal specially with brass locomotives, but most of the advice is helpful for all model trains.

First is if train does not move.

https://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/techtips.php?techtip_id=9

Second is more general cleaning advice.

https://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/techtips.php?techtip_id=3

And last, a very long and detailed explanation about different types of motors used in model trains. Also gives advice on maintenance, and how electric motors inside model trains work. This next webpage is quite a read, very informative. Will take a couples hours or more to read. Read at your convenience.

http://sumidacrossing.org/LayoutElectricity/ModelTrainPower/DCTrainMotors/


Howard


----------



## Timb (Jan 7, 2012)

Wow, that's some good information, thanks for the time to put them together for me I apreciate it...I never knew the 9v batt could be used to test a loco, but the alligator clips is what I will pick up so I can use them in a test situation. I never knew half those point I read on the first few links...Ive gone though the first few links and gave a thoural read....well..I can say this is pretty intensive, really did not think of all this detail, but on the other side of the spectrum, I know what I need to know and better take more care into the upkeep of the loco. Problem is now im a lil intemidated if I need to open my Pre Marquete in order to give it a proper cleaning.

opening the two N scale locos seems to be a not so difficult task, and I could probably Handel it but where the trial come would be in the Pre marquette as it looks very intemidating due to it many and fine parts...I'm going to finish the reads to try and grasp a greater detailed understanding before I attempt to open it up. 

Thanks for the reads, I'm sure they will play a great part in trying to understand this.


----------



## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Timb said:


> Wow, that's some good information, thanks for the time to put them together for me I apreciate it...I never knew the 9v batt could be used to test a loco, but the alligator clips is what I will pick up so I can use them in a test situation. I never knew half those point I read on the first few links...Ive gone though the first few links and gave a thoural read....well..I can say this is pretty intensive, really did not think of all this detail, but on the other side of the spectrum, I know what I need to know and better take more care into the upkeep of the loco. Problem is now im a lil intemidated if I need to open my Pre Marquete in order to give it a proper cleaning.
> 
> opening the two N scale locos seems to be a not so difficult task, and I could probably Handel it but where the trial come would be in the Pre marquette as it looks very intemidating due to it many and fine parts...I'm going to finish the reads to try and grasp a greater detailed understanding before I attempt to open it up.
> 
> Thanks for the reads, I'm sure they will play a great part in trying to understand this.



You're welcome, I'm glad that the information has been helpful to you. 

I know it's a lot of information, I hope you don't get lost in the details in those sites. My advice is, just quickly read them, and see what might be helpful for you. 

I agree that your MTH engine looks more intimidating to open for maintenance, because of all the many fine detailed parts. Hopefully it's not too difficult.

I personally like locomotives that are easy (or at least medium) to work on. I don't like to do maintenance on the super detailed locomotives, because they are more difficult to work on. I'm always afraid I will loose or break something. I love rugged parts, not fragile parts. But that is me.

Howard


----------

