# [H0] The Southern Berry RR



## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

Hello Happy Fellow Modelers !
My folded figure 8 layout project looked a little bit boring. So I found a better idea (hopefully !). I must draw a real track plan but I think the dimensions will be something like 4'x10'. All your comments and advices will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CHRlSTIAN said:


> Hello Happy Fellow Modelers !
> My folded figure 8 layout project looked a little bit boring. So I found a better idea (hopefully !). I must draw a real track plan but I think the dimensions will be something like 4'x10'. All your comments and advices will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 576624


CHRISTIAN;

One thing that can make a layout become boring is a track plan that has little, or nothing, to do with reality. Your folded figure eight, and this "Southern Berry RR" both fall into that category. Being able to portray some of the operations of a real railroad helps sustain operating interest.

Now there are two basic schools of thought about track plans for layouts. Neither is "good" or "bad". One is simply more realistic than the other. Which type you want to build, is strictly your choice, and that's as it should be.

The first school favors lots of track & lots of turnouts crammed into a given space, with loops so the trains can run round & round on various routes, which all come back to the same place. I call layouts like this "train setups" because they resemble the temporary setups we used to make with Lionel track on the living room floor. There were different ways the train could go, but that was about it. There is nothing wrong with such a "train setup" layout, as long as that's what you want to end up with.

The second school is much more like the "track plan" of a real railroad. A long mainline that runs between town 'A' and town 'B'. Along the way, it may pass through mountains, cross rivers, and very importantly deliver & pick up freight, or passengers.

Look at the real railroad track closest to your area. Does it form an oval?, or a figure eight? No. Most likely its a single track running as far as you can see. Except for railyards, or major terminals you probably won't see more than a turnout or two either. So if the object of "model railroading" is to model something that resembles a real railroad, you can probably now see that the "Southern Berry RR." track plan does no such thing. Do you care about that? Only you can make that decision.
You probably do care about having the ability to keep trains running on any layout you build, rather than simply having a train run out to the "end of the line" and then run backwards to the beginning. Most modelers definitely want "continuous running." That means having some form of loop(s), but it doesn't mean the entire loop has to be in plain sight continuously.

The attached files explore this idea further. Look through them if you like. If you would rather build the Southern Berry RR, exactly as drawn, that's fine. Your railroad, your rules.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I would suggest a scenic divider for the long axis. You could still do a figure 8 by having a mountain tunnel somewhere in there. But the scenic divider eliminates the visual notion that a train is running laps around a town population of 54 residents. This always breaks down suspension of disbelief. Instead, you can represent two locations (or even three really) each having related upstream/downstream businesses…. Which then gives the little pike an actual reason to exist; to move raw materials & finished products from point A to point B. So rural/urban, inland small town/coastal port/coastal city, New Mexico/Colorado, etc.
Whether it’s farm produce on one side and urban market on the other, or a coal mine and power plant. Interchange tracks with other RRs are essentially structure-less “businesses” so that’s an easy, even essential, element.

Fun tip: Running 2 industry tracks thru a scenic divider with i.e. mine/power plant not only eliminates having to pull loaded cars out of a power plant (unrealistic) but such tracks serve as a hidden reverse loop for locos too (rather than by hand). It’s unrealistic, but useful.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That track plan would make an excellent HOm Swiss layout. With some modification of the yard area that could be any of several medium size passenger stations in the Alps.


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

Thank you very much for all of your replies. Much appreciated. They are very useful to avoid all my usual mistakes. 


traction fan said:


> One thing that can make a layout become boring is a track plan that has little, or nothing, to do with reality. Your folded figure eight, and this "Southern Berry RR" both fall into that category.


You're absolutely right.


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

Just delayed a little bit...


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

And I thought it would look great ?


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

You needn’t necessarily cancel the idea. Just modify it.

Try this approach, Christian: You know the size you have to work with. So build the benchwork. Then temporarily tack down some inexpensive material, like plywood but not necessarily that. Then, arrange some track in a configuration similar to one of the plans… held down only temporary with flat thumb tacks (for sectional track) or tape (for molded road bed). 
This way you can do some “live fire testing” and see not only if or how soon you get bored, but also what works or doesn’t in practical operation, etc.
It would get something running where you could actually test concepts. 2D plans are great and all, but I find that temporary and modifiable track is very very helpful, regardless of how seasoned one is.


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## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

OilValleyRy said:


> I would suggest a scenic divider for the long axis. You could still do a figure 8 by having a mountain tunnel somewhere in there. But the scenic divider eliminates the visual notion that a train is running laps around a town population of 54 residents. This always breaks down suspension of disbelief. Instead, you can represent two locations (or even three really) each having related upstream/downstream businesses…. Which then gives the little pike an actual reason to exist; to move raw materials & finished products from point A to point B. So rural/urban, inland small town/coastal port/coastal city, New Mexico/Colorado, etc.
> Whether it’s farm produce on one side and urban market on the other, or a coal mine and power plant. Interchange tracks with other RRs are essentially structure-less “businesses” so that’s an easy, even essential, element.


 Hi OVRR, 

I am planning on incorporating this idea into my pike. Mine is 1" extruded insulation foam (the good kind) sub-roadbed. Do you have suggestions or can point to a source for how to install such a view-block/scenic divider? Also suggestions as to the material for the view-block, maybe styrene sheet? A styrene sheet would be flexible enough to bend, and perhaps thin enough so that all I need do is make a long knife cut into the foam and let the expansion of the foam hold it in place? 

Can you get 24" wide styrene sheet in lengths? Hmmmm . . . . . the gears are turning and the smoke is starting to billow.


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

Thank you very much for all your very useful replies.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Stejones82 said:


> Hi OVRR,
> 
> I am planning on incorporating this idea into my pike. Mine is 1" extruded insulation foam (the good kind) sub-roadbed. Do you have suggestions or can point to a source for how to install such a view-block/scenic divider? Also suggestions as to the material for the view-block, maybe styrene sheet? A styrene sheet would be flexible enough to bend, and perhaps thin enough so that all I need do is make a long knife cut into the foam and let the expansion of the foam hold it in place?
> 
> Can you get 24" wide styrene sheet in lengths? Hmmmm . . . . . the gears are turning and the smoke is starting to billow.


These folks will cut to size in various thicknesses and widths and up to 96" long. No minimum.

Acme Plastics


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## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> These folks will cut to size in various thicknesses and widths and up to 96" long. No minimum.
> 
> Acme Plastics


Thanks!!


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Stejones82 said:


> Hi OVRR,
> 
> I am planning on incorporating this idea into my pike. Mine is 1" extruded insulation foam (the good kind) sub-roadbed. Do you have suggestions or can point to a source for how to install such a view-block/scenic divider? Also suggestions as to the material for the view-block, maybe styrene sheet? A styrene sheet would be flexible enough to bend, and perhaps thin enough so that all I need do is make a long knife cut into the foam and let the expansion of the foam hold it in place?
> 
> Can you get 24" wide styrene sheet in lengths? Hmmmm . . . . . the gears are turning and the smoke is starting to billow.


There’s at least two common methods:
1; use 1/8th masonite hardboard AKA pegboard with no holes, high quality flat on both sides. There is a type that has an unfinished textured back side, which you don’t want to use for this. It’s commonly available in 4x8 and 4x4 sheets, and easy to cut with a saber saw.
Mounting is also simple, depending on benchwork style. For example a box frame with plywood top… Mark the desired position. Check for support pieces below, and mark their location. Use a drill bit equal in size to saber saw blade size to make a starter hole. Cut a slot, skipping the support beam locations. Notch the divider to straddle those. Underneath, run a couple 1x2s along both sides of where the backdrop slips through. Nail those to the plywood, but not to the divider, keeping a press but not clamped tight fit… in case you want to remove it at some point.

2; extruded foam. The same stuff commonly used for scenery. I actually prefer 2 inch thick for a few reasons* (below). Pretty much the same idea. But depending in benchwork style, less or no cutting at all. My new layout is free standing L girder. The backdrop is held in place by the cross members that hold up my sub roadbed. I keep them 1 inch short on each side, making a 2 inch gap between back to back benchwork sections.

* Reasons I now prefer 2 inch foam for scenic dividers.
A; I can glue quarter round trim pieces or wire mold on each end, so there are no hard corners in the sky.
B; With planning, a 4x8 sheet can provide backdrop for both a lower deck and top deck, all the way to the ceiling with no cutting. Or cut in half for a single deck. I like view blocks going to the ceiling.
C; With either a drop ceiling T rail, or a few roofing nails tapped flush to ceiling drywall and painted over… Magnets can be embedded into the foam top edge, being 2 inches wide and be completely hidden, these eliminate any wobble in the backdrop. They can also be used where two backdrop sections butt joint together.

I think styrene would be too flimsy and curl over, even at 16 inches tall or so. I suppose you could do 2 sheets of styrene with kebob skewers in the middle… But keep in mind the more flexible it is, the more likely paint or glue (photos) is to crack & fail. Interesting idea. I’m not holding my breath that it’d work, but it might?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CHRlSTIAN said:


> Thank you very much for all of your replies. Much appreciated. They are very useful to avoid all my usual mistakes.
> You're absolutely right.
> So I must find a better idea...as always. Project cancelled !


 CHRISTIAN;
You're not necessarily restricted to searching through published track plans, and using one of them. You can draw your own track plan. I think it helps to do that by looking at some real railroads, and why they were built. There was some commodity that needed to be moved from one place to another. Typically what railroads earn their money hauling is something bulky, heavy, and/or valuable, enough that hauling it by rail makes economic sense. Many railroads were built to move things faster or more economically than other transport. Logs can be dragged along the ground by oxen, but a train can haul more timber further, faster, for less cost. That's what caused many logging railroads to be built.

You might want to do some research on real railroads and look for one small part of one that you might like to model. I also suggest you look at the "layout design" section of this forum. There is a thread called "Here are the layouts of some forum members." In it are several layouts, including my own. Mine is what's called a "dog bone layout." It has a long skinny main line that connects two deeper sections with return loops. Notice also that one side of the overall "loop" is hidden by urban scenery, or removeable backdrops. A viewer sees a train travel from "Cedar Falls" down to Black River Junction, and then on into Seattle. They don't see it go back, since the back track is concealed. There is a hidden staging yard where the train can wait until its time for it to return as a "different train." 

Keep looking until you find something that will work for you.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Stejones82 said:


> Hi OVRR,
> 
> I am planning on incorporating this idea into my pike. Mine is 1" extruded insulation foam (the good kind) sub-roadbed. Do you have suggestions or can point to a source for how to install such a view-block/scenic divider? Also suggestions as to the material for the view-block, maybe styrene sheet? A styrene sheet would be flexible enough to bend, and perhaps thin enough so that all I need do is make a long knife cut into the foam and let the expansion of the foam hold it in place?
> 
> Can you get 24" wide styrene sheet in lengths? Hmmmm . . . . . the gears are turning and the smoke is starting to billow.


Stejones;

I actually use the system you're proposing. My backdrops are cut from a 4' x 8' sheet of plastic sold at Home Depot. It has a pebbled surface on one side but the back is plain flat plastic, perfect for painting backdrops. Its also flexible but stiff enough that it springs back with more than enough force to hold it in place. 
The photos below show two sections of my layout. The first shows a white fiberglass plastic backdrop sheet flexed into a curve at the right. Its held in place only by its own spring-action pushing against top & bottom dowel rails. This makes my backdrops removable. There is a "back track" behind the backdrop, so the backdrop needs to be removeable to access that track.
The second photo shows a painted backdrop in place.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

Hello Happy RR modelers ! *Breaking news !*
My project is no longer cancelled. Just delayed a bit...


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

*Breaking news ! *No green paint will be used for this project.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

So…. Western then? I hope. Lol Don't say Martian


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

It's still a very interesting plan.


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

Some pictures of this very old N scale layout (1970) that gave me a few ideas for my project.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CHRlSTIAN said:


> Some pictures of this very old N scale layout (1970) that gave me a few ideas for my project.
> View attachment 577695
> 
> 
> ...


Christian;

Its fun to research train layouts, new or old. However, looking at these photos I see many flaws in the design. I won't comment on them now, let's just say it looks a lot like a toy train layout and nothing like a real railroad. That may or may not matter to you, and whatever you want is fine.

Traction Fan


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

You are right. But in 1970 it was a very impressive layout. It was built in Europe with very little means.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CHRlSTIAN said:


> You are right. But in 1970 it was a very impressive layout. It was built in Europe with very little means.


CHRISTIAN;

You're right too. It is an impressive layout.
Any layout is a good layout as long as you have fun with it. There is nothing wrong with an unrealistic layout. In fact, I think you will find a whole lot more "just for fun" layouts than any other kind. "Your railroad. your rules."

Traction Fan


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