# Track restoration



## n1ywb (Feb 4, 2011)

Whats the best way to restore track?

In the past I've used scotchbrite and sand paper. Both take a lot of elbow grease. The scotchbrite never leaves the rails looking "new" and the sand paper removes the plating, leading to quicker re-rusting.

Has anybody tried acid? I use phosphoric acid (navel jelly) to remove rust on my new england car. Although often the rust is embedded deeper in the material than you realize and it leaves the surface pitted.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Track isn't worth much, I am happy if it works. I think acid may be a little eccentric. If new is good, save time and just buy it. If you want a bright look you need to wire brush it, and suffer the consequences.

If you go with an acid bath, the next level is nickel plate.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Have any of you O gauge, or should I say steel rail gang, ever tried to blue your rails to inhibit the rusting or used Extend rust inhibitor?
I used extend on my 1965 olds cutlass and had extremely good results from it! 
I would assume that you would have to remove it off the top surface to promote electrical connection but the rest of the rail surfaces would stay rust free?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

N1-- I would really shy away from sandpaper (  ) on tubular track rails. ScotchBrite and/or soft (brass) wire brushing would be less damaging to any remaining plating.

With MUCH caution, I've been using baths of diluted muriatic (hydrochloric) acid to derust trim parts on my prewar projects ... old latch couplers with lots of nooks and crannies, and the like. The acid certainly removes rust quickly, but if you leave the part in the bath more than a minute (or two or three), it will actually start to break down and flake off the plating finish. Tread carefully here.

While it is conceivable that one could disassemble tubular track and put the rails (only) in an acid bath for a quick derust, it would be quite a bit of labor ... and you'd have the difficulty of drying the inside of the tubes to prevent more rust there. It's possible, I guess, but more work than it's worth, in my opinion.

Sean, you may have seen that I've just gotten into the "blue" thing on one of my Lionel Jr motor cheeks. Worked very nicely. I don't know if the surface finish is conductive or not. I have read, however, that bluing in and of itself does NOT offer much rust inhibiting protection. Have you heard otherwise ???

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bluing does NOT offer rust prevention, it's supposed to be oiled to prevent that. 

_*New guns are typically available in blued finish options offered as the least-expensive finish, and this finish is also the least effective at providing rust resistance, relative to other finishes such as Parkerizing or hard chrome plating or nitriding processes like Tenifer.*_

Bluing is also not a good conductor.

_*Historically, razor blades were often blued steel. A non-linear resistance property of the blued steel of razor blades, foreshadowing the same property that would later be discovered in semi-conductor diode junctions, along with the ready availability of blued steel razor blades, led to the use of razor blades as a detector in the crystal set AM radios which were often built by soldiers during World War II.[1]*_


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I wouldn't be as concerned about the track rusting as I would about the trains. If your track is rusting you need to take steps to reduce the humidity. I have some O-27 track that has been stored for many years inside the house in Florida. I made the pins from copper plated welding rod. The ends of the pins, where there is no plating, are still shiny. If your layout is in the basement, get a dehumidifier.

Anything left in the garage or attic in Florida gets destroyed in a few years due to rust and/or zinc disease.

BB


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

BTW, isn't real track rusty?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I've been schooled!:knock_teeth_out:
I'm going to quickly jump back over the fence back to the HO,N, Nickel silver world!
You guy's in the O world get scary!:cheeky4:
n1ywb, 
Rust gives it character leave it alone!!!
There is that better? :laugh:


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

[QUOTE_*Historically, razor blades were often blued steel. A non-linear resistance property of the blued steel of razor blades, foreshadowing the same property that would later be discovered in semi-conductor diode junctions, along with the ready availability of blued steel razor blades, led to the use of razor blades as a detector in the crystal set AM radios which were often built by soldiers during World War II.[1]*_[/QUOTE]

My father, a WWII GI, and I built a razor blade radio in the '60's.


BTW, my dealer feels the Scotchbrite leaves a chemical on the track. He recommends a drywall sanding sponge. 

It works very well.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have used ScotchBrite pads for 2 years without a problem. 

BB


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Is the center rail of thr gargraves track blued?? It is dark in shade.
Nimt does make some sense.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Dave Sams,


> My father, a WWII GI, and I built a razor blade radio in the '60's.


That is very cool!:thumbsup:

I was in the cabinet and remodeling business for years. Scotchbrite, Sandpaper, Drywall sanding sheets, sanding sponges emery cloth all contain similar materials, Silicon carbide, Aluminum oxide, Garnet among others and they all leave the same by product metal (small quantity) BAD, Rust (iron oxide) BAD, if that's what your trying to remove and any of the above mentioned grits Very BAD.
I'm not saying that using any of them will do more damage than the other but they all can do harm.
if you chose to use any of them just vacuum up the residue and wipe the rills with Rubbing alcohol, Denatured alcohol, or Jack Daniels (OK not the last one). 
Denatured alcohol is my choice, it's cheap and leaves no residue behind and is safe on most paints and stains.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suspect the drywall sanding sponge will be as bad as sandpaper, same stuff is used as the abrasive.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dave Sams said:


> [QUOTE_*Historically, razor blades were often blued steel. A non-linear resistance property of the blued steel of razor blades, foreshadowing the same property that would later be discovered in semi-conductor diode junctions, along with the ready availability of blued steel razor blades, led to the use of razor blades as a detector in the crystal set AM radios which were often built by soldiers during World War II.[1]*_


My father, a WWII GI, and I built a razor blade radio in the '60's.


BTW, my dealer feels the Scotchbrite leaves a chemical on the track. He recommends a drywall sanding sponge.  

It works very well.[/quote] Dave Sams 

I use scotchbrite with WD 40, but when I am done I wipe them down with Ethanol.
Ethanol cleans all the residue from both and gets them nice and clean.
I never heard of anyone recommending a sanding sponge.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I normally just wipe the track with a clean rag after I Scotchbrite them.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Is the center rail of thr gargraves track blued?? It is dark in shade.
> Nimt does make some sense.


It's black-anodized, done at Anoplate in Syracuse, NY.


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## n1ywb (Feb 4, 2011)

I wash my pots and pans with scotchbrite so I hope it's not leaving any chemicals behind. It is kinda dusty, I scrub my track over the garbage can.

I have a pretty small train budget so I'd like to use as much of my old track as possible.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Razor blade crystal radio sidebar ... fascinating, actually ... I did not know about this ... (Thanks, John!) ...

http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/homemade_radio.html










As a kid, I fiddle with a few crystal radios. Mine used a little pressure point on an actual crystal mineral chip of some sort. I always found it amazing that a chunk of rock (really) could act like a diode, and that power could be "pulled" from the air (or airwaves, really).

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

n1ywb, I have a lot of track that dates back to the 50s and some prewar. It can all be used if the top of the rail is clean and the pins and holes are clean so it makes good contact. I have used track that was so rusty it had holes rusted through it. I clean the rusty stuff on a steel wire wheel and don't bother to clean anything but the top of the rails and pins and holes. The holes are best cleaned with small wire brushes that you can buy at McMaster Carr. I have taken track that was bent up and straightened it out. I use finishing nails for O-27 pins because the Lionel pins cost to much: 25 cents each.
BB


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Ed, your dealer may be confused with germ killing ingredients in sponges.That is why kitchen sponges are not recommended for cleaning fish tanks.
Scotchbrite without the sponge has none.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Razor blade crystal radio sidebar ... fascinating, actually ... I did not know about this ... (Thanks, John!) ...
> 
> http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/homemade_radio.html
> 
> ...


It's a galena crystal that was used. Funny story, in the 50's (yes, I'm that old), I was in grade school and I was trading crystal radios for stuff much more valuable. The other kids were fascinated that they worked! I got the little cats whisker/crystal assembly mail order from I believe Allied Radio. I was nicknamed _*Trader John*_ by the teachers and my parents.


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## n1ywb (Feb 4, 2011)

servoguy said:


> n1ywb, I have a lot of track that dates back to the 50s and some prewar. It can all be used if the top of the rail is clean and the pins and holes are clean so it makes good contact. I have used track that was so rusty it had holes rusted through it. I clean the rusty stuff on a steel wire wheel and don't bother to clean anything but the top of the rails and pins and holes. The holes are best cleaned with small wire brushes that you can buy at McMaster Carr. I have taken track that was bent up and straightened it out. I use finishing nails for O-27 pins because the Lionel pins cost to much: 25 cents each.
> BB


Do you have a mcmaster part number for those brushes?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Ed, your dealer may be confused with germ killing ingredients in sponges.That is why kitchen sponges are not recommended for cleaning fish tanks.
> Scotchbrite without the sponge has none.



That was Dave's quote T.
I just replied back to it.
I went back and fixed it.

I quoted and it came out like I wrote it.
I don't know why?

I never knew that about the one with the sponge side.

I wipe mine down with 200 proof grain ethanol.
Gets them nice and clean....sterilized too.

And I get my ethanol for free. Along with all my other chemicals.

The milk man brings home milk, the bread man brings home bread and Ed the chemical man brings home chemicals.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> I wipe mine down with 200 proof grain ethanol.


[ Overheard at Ed's house ... ]

"One for the tracks, one for me. Two for the tracks, two for me ..."


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## n1ywb (Feb 4, 2011)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#tube-brushes/=ax8opq

anybody know the ID of an O27 tubular rail?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The O-27 pins are 0.093. The finishing nails I am using are 0.085. 
BB


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#power-brushes/=ax8sni for the brushes
BB


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## minitrucker (Apr 28, 2011)

Has anyone media blasted rusty track? if so does it help/work? thanks Julie nb here


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Media blasting? As in my daily rant against MSNBC?!? Or do you mean abrasive blasting? Most of those guys on MSNBC are pretty abrasive, anyway. 

Hee hee ...

Blasting ultimately uses some sort of abrasive ... soda powder, etc. The right component and pressure will surely get rid of track rust, but one must be careful that it doesn't "eat" through the chromed outer finish on the tubular sections. Also, would have to be careful that you don't strip the paint from the connecting track rails.

It's certainly possible. And for badly rusted/old track, it might offer a quick, cost-effective approach. But if you get the track shiny clean, and if the outer chromed layer is gone, the track will soon start rusting again.

My two cents ...

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I leave my old rusty track rusty. I clean off the top of the rails and the pins. If the holes are rusty, you can buy small wire brushes from McMaster Carr that can be used to clean out the holes. I have also used a wire wheel to clean the rust off of track. It is a bit of a dusty job. You could oil the track or use WD-40 to keep it from rusting again. Oil would probably last longer than WD-40. You would need to clean off the top of the rails to keep the loco's wheels from slipping.
BB


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## minitrucker (Apr 28, 2011)

I guess I was thinking along the lines of crushed walnut shells or other soft media they say they arent as hard on car parts as other abrasives but not sure on train track? lol on the media cant rave here i wouldnt be welcome anymore!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

If you blast the rails, you blast away the cardboard insulators. Unless you want to dismantle the track first. You can slow roll them in sand. I stay with the standards.


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## Hammered (Mar 20, 2011)

I've done a lot car restoration and refinishing including replating of almost every type. First, any abrasive will remove whatever thin plating is on the track. Media blasting with glass or anything coarser will not only remove the plating, but make the steel more rust prone because of the surface finish it leaves (otherwise ideal for paint). Walnut shells are not effective on anything but the lightest rust. Walnut shells are more for use on soft metals (that don't rust of course) than anything else. I would stick with a fine abrasive like a scotch brite with WD-40 to provide some protection after clean-up.

I'm looking at restoring some old Lionel pieces (not track) and am toying with replating the parts. I've done various types of zinc plating at home with some success but there's a steep learning curve. A good place to go for info and products is http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/tin_plate.htm Note that to get the results in the picture requires a lot of effort, but shouldn't be too bad on small items like drive gear, bells etc...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

On this sidebar, MicroMark offers a couple of plating kits for small items ...

http://www.micromark.com/SearchResult.aspx?deptIdFilter=0&searchPhrase=plating

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I think if you go through the process of cleaning and plating, you will have used up a huge amount of time and have very little to show for it. I wouldn't waste my time. I use a wire wheel to clean up rusty track and a ScotchBrite pad to clean the top of the rails. And my experience shows me that if I do this minimal job, the track will stay clean. I have track I cleaned with a wire wheel 35+ years ago, and it is still clean. I keep it in the house where it is air conditioned, and I live in Florida. 

BB


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I checked eBay last night for track. You can buy good looking track (no rust) for 50 cents to $1 a section. If you really want to have shiny track, this would be cheaper and easier than trying to restore rusty track.


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## jreid (May 9, 2011)

I am so tight that I squeak, and even I agree on buying some if yours is too rusty, it isnt that much expense for some better looking track.


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