# Lionel Prewar Tinplate Restoration: 259, 603, 604



## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

The short version is in the title: can I easily add lighting to the pre-war 603 Pullman and 604 Observation cars? The current trucks do not have any pick-ups and there are only two small holes in the bottom frame for a wire to go through. I would also try to use the strip LEDs that gunrunnerjohn has installed in some of his passenger cars. Any idea what parts I need (if possible) and what modifications are needed (even for stock lights)? This will be my first restoration project for Lionel trains. I have experience in restoring Penn fishing reels but not Lionel trains. Thanks in advance.

Long version: I have a train set that my Mom gave me many years ago when I got married (I'm 67 at this writing). The set consists of a 259E locomotive, 259T 4 wheel tender, 603 Pullman and 604 Observation (Terra-Cotta, Orange, Window Cream), plus a "B" Multivolt transformer and "O" track. My daughter (32) and son (30) have both asked me to "will" them Mom's Lionel train set when I'm below the grass. Me being a rather selfish person, I would like for both of my children to have "The Train Set" before my demise.

So.... I have been on the purchase binge looking for exact copies of what Mom's set had, and now I have a complete duplicate set of engines, tenders and cars. My goal is to restore both sets and give them to the kids on their birthday (exact same day, two years apart). Neither one will know which set was the original and which set is a copy. Maybe I'll shuffle cars and engines to make me feel better (meaning less guilty).

As long as I have the cars disassembled for painting I was wondering if I could add lighting to the Pullman and Observation cars during the restoration process. Maybe I could also change the clear "plastic" to a translucent film with silhouettes. 

Okay, now I'm back to Earth.

I'm sorry if I have bored you with my long story. I am very new to this forum but this forum has been a huge help on the restoration processes and "gotchas" that I would have undoubtedly run into. I have tried using the "search" facility but I haven't been able to mine down to the answers that I am looking for. This is probably due to "cockpit error" on my part being a newbie. 

Thanks for your time.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

First off welcome to the forum. Second a stock setup would be very
easy. Any parts jobber will be able to supply the needed interior
bracket with light socket and also the double axle insulated fiber
board roller assembly. As for who to use for parts I do not know as
I do not mess with Lionel, but I am sure some people will chime in
with favorite suppliers.

As for mods just a gunrunner. n.n

Pookybear


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SoShore,

Take a look at my prewar whistle tender thread, here ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7595

If you read through, you'll see that I "discovered" a pickup roller assembly/bracket that simply clips on to the axles of prewar Lionel trucks. This could work nicely for you. You could get away with just one pickup (rather than two) per car.

There's also a truck-mounted (rather than axle-mounted) pickup roller that Lionel used, but this might be more complicated for you to add / retrofit. See my 610/612 thread. You can see how the lighting is mounted, too ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8795

I replace the film on my 610/612 redo. I used some translucent material I had on hand, but you could certaintly add silhoettes.

A great source for parts is Jeff Kane at the Train Tender ... www.ttender.com

You might see some restore / repaint tips in my 610/612 thread, too. I've stripped/repainted several locos/cars, so if you have questions, please ask.

Regards,

TJ


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## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

I would echo; Jeff is the best for parts. Don


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*Okay - Here We Go*

Hey folks, thanks for the good information. I talked to Jeff Kane today (www.ttender.com) and we came up with the components that I would possibly need to add lighting to my 603 and 604 passenger cars.

For the pickup we will need the TS-21 Roller Contact Assembly plus eyelets (rivets) to attach the pickups to the truck cross bar. We will also need the light bracket assembly (and bulbs) to hang from the shell cross brace. If I can get a good circuit from positive to ground I will be happy. 

I may try to figure out how to install LED strips similar to GunRunner's approach by maybe using some stock bar across the top of the shell, but for now we'll try to get the incandescent lights to work first. 

I feel good about this except for working with the eyelets (rivets). I ordered additional eyelets for the "just in case" situations that I know Murphy will provide.

Thanks for your support, assistance and knowledge,

Mark


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I got tired of trying to rivet without the proper tools, and got the Brakeman's Riveting Tools kit, makes it much easier to repair things now.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Glad the ball is rolling in a good direction,Mark. Do keep us posted. I'd love to see pics of the cars and all of the parts when they arrive from Jeff.

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*No parts yet - But more to do*

Okay, I finally got a camera from work that actually has some charged batteries (I know, I'm cheap). I will try to add some photos to this thread based on what I now know. First, adding lighting to the 603 and 604 cars doesn't seem to be the major problem except for installing rivets on the truck cross bars.

(Please, please excuse me. I have no idea on how to insert images in a post. I'll look around to see how to properly do it. It seems to me that I do not have the proper privileges to upload to the Gallery).

I purchased on the cheap some "O" gauge track and it is quite rusty, but that is beside the point. I also found out that my 259 locomotive is slightly malformed in meeting the "O" gauge specifications. First I hope to share the 259 locomotive with you. Please accept my apologies for the crappy photos, I'm not Cecil B DeMille.

I purchased (cobbled together) a locomotive, cars and etc. to equal what my Mom's train set consisted of. I am pretty close on on that. I have acquired a 259 locomotive, an unknown tender, a 603 Pullman and a 604 Observation in the identical colors that Mom had. I also picked up a Multi-Volt "B" transformer and some very rusty "O" gauge track.

First, the 259: I really don't care if it is not an "E" loco since it will probably be spending the rest of it's years doing a forward continuous loop around my son's and grandson's Christmas tree. If they want to reverse the direction, they will need to put their fingers into the cab to move the directional lever.

At first I was really happy with my purchases and I figured that I could just gift wrap the train set. Silly me.

I applied some anti-corrosion, lubricant that I use on salt water fishing reels to the 259. After a "bench test" of the 259, things seemed to be working properly (with what I thought was some minor vibration) after a short "break in" but then again I didn't have the driver rods attached. The drivers don't to be as free-wheeling as I think they should have been but I let it go. When I put the the rods back on there was some serious binding in the drive train. I finally noticed that one of the rear drivers (non-geared) is slipping on the axle. Bummer... Then when I tried to put the 259 on some rusty track the rear drivers are too far apart to easily slip on to the rails. Then I noticed that the trailing trucks were not completely touching the rails. Bummer again. Also, the leading and trailing truck wheels are not centered on their axles. This is something else that I will need to resolve.

The tender that I have was purchased along with the 259 locomotive. I have no idea what model - number - etc it is. The shell looks like TJ's tender, but this one has only 4 wheels, not 8. The frame is different than TJ's and it has an odd assortment of holes in it's bottom. I guess that Lionel used this frame for other rolling stock than a tender. The tender has no slots for journal covers, and it is missing a draw bar and coupler. Maybe I should look for a different tender but this tender came with the 259 locomotive. Maybe they are the proper mates?

I was very happy when the 603 Pullman arrived. I am assuming that it was previously "restored". It has new trucks, new couplers, frosted windows and a hand paint job on the windows. I just don't like the "rake" that many of these old tin-plate cars have (higher on one end). I will need to check on how the trucks are attached to the frame or maybe there are different trucks on each end. Who knows?

The 604 Observation car was what I expected. It will need a little TLC to get it back to a near original condition. 

The transformer is a question mark. I used a multi-meter and it looks like I don't have power on the 2 and 4 points. I would also like to put a more modern power cord on it but I'm afraid of taking this thing apart.

When I get some progress on the restoration of this conglomeration of Lionel equipment, I'll try to keep you posted if you are interested. I think I'll try to tackle the "easy" stuff first, like paint, and then the more difficult stuff, like quartering drive wheels, later.

Mark


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SoShore,

You've got the beginning of a very nice prewar collection there. The 259 is an early one, with the copper domes, brass handrails, copper marker lamps, and manual reverse switch. Lionel made this in 1932, only. Very, very nice. It's in good condition for its age.

Your right drive wheels have an alignment problem, as you have noted. The inner drive rod attachment points (screwed to the wheels) needs to be at the same "clock position". Yours are off a bit, likely causing some binding with the drive rods as the wheels rotate.

You said the rear drive wheels are spread too wide in "gauge" ... width between wheels. If I were you, I'd remove all of the drive gear, grab each of the rear wheels (one in each hand), and twist / push-inward in alternating twisting directions, to see if I could coax the wheels in closer to each other. Try to achieve proper drive rod screw alignment in the process. Once in, you can put a small drop of Loctite or even CA glue to the point where the axle poke through the wheel casting. That will tighten things up, likely. Work with the glue upwards (wheel face pointing down), so that gravity will prevent any glue from wicking up toward the axle bearing in the motor ... you don't want to seize that, obviously.

The leading and trailing wheels should "float" a bit left/right in their trucks, and the trucks themselves shoudl float a bit left/right in the mount to the loco ... you'll see an elongated hole on the truck there. You can bent the "palm" at the very end of the rear truck a bit to better allow the truck wheels to ride on the rails, if needed.

I actually prefer the manual switch on many of my locos. It's a much quieter ride than the often-noisy e-unit.

Clean the armature and brushes on the motor, if you haven't already done so ... important for good running. Oil all moving parts/bearings with a drop of 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil, especially the drive rod linkages ... you want to get those riding smoother.

I don't think that tender is original to this 259. Rather, I think this 1932 259 would have had a 4-wheel 259T tender ... open top, ladders, journal boxes, etc.

Lionel was noted for using the same (or nearly identical) tinplate pressings on various models. Hence, the upper shell on your tender is nearly the same as that on the 1689 tenders. The bottom has holes that were there for other uses on other cars. Quite common.

Lionel didn't intent to have "rake" in its passenger cars. Might something be bent/squished with the truck that would be causing this?

That track has seen far, far better days. Time to retire those rails, and get some less rusty stuff, I think!

You're bold to be actually using that MultiVolt transformer. Not many guys 'round here actually using them. A nice piece of history, but not all that practical, actually. Be careful with the cord ... replace if needed. But ... consider keeping this one on the decor shelf, and getting something like a 1033 with variable throttle for actual running. My two cents, anyway.

I'm attaching a couple of goodies for you ... 259 and 180 set info from 1932 catalog. Look familiar?!?

Cheers,

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*The Track is Pretty Fugly...*

TJ, Thanks for the input. I was surprised how good the condition is on the 259. I might hold off repainting it for the time being. I'll concentrate more on getting the copper cleaned up before I think about repainting it. If I did repaint the 259, would you recommend as a final coat a rattle-can spray paint and if so, what manufacturer and type of black: gloss, semi-gloss or flat paint?

I'll attempt to get the rear drivers "fixed" as you have described. I have some trusty old calipers that I can use to take measurements with to compare the front drivers with the back drivers. The difference in width doesn't jump out to me with the naked eye but the calipers should verify what I suspect. I was also wondering to myself if Loctite would hold the drivers in place. Besides restoring old fishing reels I also spin wrenches on cars (trying to make them go faster) so I have a lifetime of Blue Loctite tubes in the garage. Thanks for the tip of applying the Loctite from the back of the driver.

I can see where the trailing trucks on the 259 the "palm" of the trailing truck has a slight bend in the upwards position. To properly fix the hanging rear truck shouldn't be a big problem. I still don't like the fact that the leading and trailing truck wheels aren't centered on their axles. I'll fiddle around with them to get them more aligned where I think they should be.

I haven't taken the shell off of the 259, but maybe during the stripping and painting of one of the cars I'll remove the shell and clean the armature and brushes. When I was doing a "bench test" of the 259 I was getting quite a bit of blue arcing from the brushes on the armature. I'll check to see if they need to be replaced when I clean up the armature. Although I work with computer networking every working day, electricity still has me mystified. All I know about electricity is that it is normally invisible and if smoke escapes from and electrical device, that ain't good. I have recently restored and old John Deere garden tractor, so I have plenty of straight 30W oil to lube everything with. I think that just a toothpick would work to transfer the oil to the proper spots.

Mom's 259E train set has the 259T 4 wheel tender. Since her train set is probably a later model, the tender has the copper journal covers but other than that the journal covers her tender looks exactly like the tender that you posted. I'll lurk around to see if I can find a 259T but in the meantime maybe I can practice my disassembling and non-painting skills on the tender that I have.

I haven't popped the top off of the 603 Pullman, but there is probably something incorrectly bent in the frame or truck(s). The "rake" problem should be easy to identify but there is always Murphy lurking around.

The track that I just got is waaay past FUBAR. It needs to go to the recycling center like a Kuerig coffee maker. It would take too much time and effort to resuscitate this lot of tubular track. Maybe I should support my semi-local hobby shop and purchase a simple oval loop from them.

Yeah, I'm also concerned about using the Multivolt transformer. It has an old cloth covered cord and no circuit breaker (plus some of the contacts don't work). I thought it was a novel idea at the time but maybe I should look at some more "modern" technologies. In the early 1950's, Dad bought "us" a 6-8-6 locomotive Lionel train set. I have no idea where he got the cash from since I don't think that he ever made over $10,000 a year in wages. Anyway, the set came with a transformer that had an internal circuit breaker (probably an RW transformer). If I can find one reasonably priced I might go that way since it also has whistle and reverse buttons (if my son is so inclined). Other than that, the 1033 is probably a safe purchase for my current needs. Maybe I can put the "B" transformer up with my antique fishing reels display.

Thanks for your interest and time. Take care, Mark


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good thinking above. Couple of points, though...



SoShoresGuy said:


> Thanks for the tip of applying the Loctite from the back of the driver.


Not quite what was thinking ... I don't think you'll have enough room to do that. Rather, I was thinking of applying a drop of Loctite on the end of the axle, with the axle pointing down ... letting it wick into the wheel for just a second, and then flipping the motor 180 deg so now the loctite would flow down, away from the motor bearings. The key here is to not give the loctite time / position / gravity to wick into the bearing.

As for paint ...

Are you sure you want to repaint the 259? It doesn't look too bad, and there is something to be said for original finish.

If you do opt to repaint, strip thoroughly first, of course. I've used Krylon primer and Krlyon topcoat with good success. Most tinplate had a gloss finish. That said, the Krylon satin (midway between flat and gloss) has quite the sheen ...nearly as much as the gloss. So, consider either the satin or the gloss.

The copper will polish nicely via a Dremel stainless steel brush. I topcoat with a brush-on coat of airplane dope.

Enjoy!

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

Okay, Now I understand what you are talking about the Loctite. Thanks.

Since the paint on the 259 looks very good for being about 80 years old I'll probably hesitate on re-painting it. I'll first try to polish the copper and brass stuff first. I don't think at this time that the shell needs a new "dress". I picked up a couple of Dremel stainless wire wheels at wally-world today to work on the copper and brass. Hopefully that will be the limit of exterior restoration. I guess that I should use some Testors clear dope on the copper? When I was drafted in the Army they gave us brass buckles and other brass stuff. They wanted us to clean off the lacquer coating with Brasso. It made no sense to me since the lacquer coating kept the brass from getting green, but I guess the DIs needed something to keep us busy. 

Thanks for your concerns. Keep it coming.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

OK ... you asked for it! ...

Once you remove the motor, driverods, etc., you can ...

The smokestack and rear dome can be removed easily ... bend the tabs gently, but you shouldn't have a problem. Once removed, you can Dremel-brush the finish shiny. If you want to go further, buff them to a polished finish using a buffing wheel and some polishing compound. Be careful not to "catch" or bend the tabs further in the process. Finish with dope or other clear finish thereafter.

The middle dome might take a little extra care to remove ... the tabs are in close proximity to where the "sandpipes" poke through the shell.

Alternatively, you can slip some wax paper under the edge of the dome, and try to polish it in place, without damaging the black shell in the process. Trickier / more risk here, in my opinion.

The boiler front comes off easily ... one screw on the bottom, then lift out/up to disengage the tab on top. You can remove / polish / clearcoat the two copper marker lights, too. They should have a colored clear "lens" inside each.

I'd leave the center headlamp casting in place on the boiler front. It's cast metal (zinc?). You can brush on a fresh coat of paint, but be careful not to get any on the boiler front itself, of course. If it's not too bad as found, maybe just clean it.

Remove the handrails by pinching the stanchion cleat tabs together on the inside. Start at the front, and work your way back to the cab. Once removed, try to straighten the stanchions (tabs especially) as much as possible with an unknurled needle nose pliers. Polish up the stanchions with a quick Dremel brush ... no need to clearcoat these afterwards ... I think they're nickel or stainless, and should hold their shine. Polish up the handrail by rubbing it back/forth with a ScotchBrite pad. I usually clearcoat these with a spray lacquer ... not too thick, though ... you want to be able to get the stanchions back on, afterwards. You can spread the stanchions open a bit with a thin flathead screwdriver to help get them back on the handrail.

The sandpipes that run from the front dome to the frame are tricky ... you may or may not be able to remove these for polish ... it depends on how the top of the metal rod is bent inside the shell. Be careful about unbending it for removal ... the metal of the rod is brittle, and it could easily break. Perhaps something to leave in place, maybe.

Try cleaning the shell (existing paint) with a mild auto buffing compound. I think you'll find that this brightens / polishes the paint considerably. Maybe an auto wax thereafter.

You can touch up paint chips with a Sharpie marker ... not perfect, but it'll hide most of the bare metal.

My thoughts, anyway!

Cheers,

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*What a mess!*

Okay, while I was doing some body work on the Observation and Pullman cars (waiting for the Easy-Off to work), I decided to take the shell off of the 259 to give it a bath and also try to remove the copper domes for cleaning and a coat of clear lacquer. While I had the "hood open" I also worked on the slipping driver and the width of the rear drivers (too wide). THEN... I took off the brush plate to clean the brushes and armature. Needless to say, the 80 year old wiring insulation disintegrated into about a ka-jillion pieces. Now I'll need to rewire the motor which I really wasn't expecting to do.

I looks like I'll need to move or remove the front light bracket to get to where one of the wires attaches to the coil (field). That is do-able for me. Now, how do I replace the wire that attaches to the controller pick-up assembly? I am assuming that I will need to remove the fiber board from between the motor's frame plates but how does that happen?

Hopefully, I can trace the other wires and replace them one-by-one.

Any help would be appreciated. This is a non-"E" 259. It has the wafer style reversing switch on the rear of the motor. I can post photos if necessary.

The good thing is that the wires were color coded. Unfortunately, the color code was all black.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SoShore,

Re: the pickup wire on your 259 ...

Pulling out the fiber pickup plate is a last resort, especially for any loco with good, tight wheels. (You'd have to remove the wheels first, to spread the motor sideplates, to remove the plate ... and I would shy you away from all that.)

Fortunately, you have some other options.

1. Assuming the pickup wire (although with degraded insulation) is still soldered to the back / inside of the pickup plate, trace it out to its other end ... usually on top of the motor in a harness, or to the manual switch. Unsolder that end. Then, carefully remove any crumbling old insulation, and then slip a piece of heat-shrink-tubing (of appropriate size) over the loose end, working it down to abut the pickup-plate solder joint. You can leave it at that, or, if you desire, heat it up a bit to shrink the tubing down. Resolder the upper end, and you're good to go.

2. If the lower end of the wire is detached from the pickup plate, the wire will have to be replaced, and you have a couple of options:

A. Use the T-Man fix ... a "cheat" to solder the wire to the outside of the pickup plate. See here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=184587&postcount=34

B. Similar idea, except drill a small hole through the pickup plate, just away from the nameplate rivet, pass a new wire through that hole, and solder that to the copper, somewhat similar to T-Man's approach, above. Alternatively, you could drill out the nameplate rivet, and use a screw there (with wire attached), but I don't think I would whack into the original "fabric" there, in this case.

As for your wiring runs ...

I did a wiring diagram for a 1681 loco with a manual switch a while back. See this post. On the 1681, the switch flips the "direction" of current through the field coil, and the armature (which is "downstream") is grounded to the frame. On your 259, the setup might be the opposite ... manual switch to flip direction through the armature, and field coil downstream and grounded to frame. Either way, the concept of wiring the manual switch is the same.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=37391&highlight=1681+wiring+diagram+manual#post37391

Also note that on the 1681 (and some other locos), one can untab and remove the Lionel nameplate, exposing a grommet hole to which the pickup wire is soldered. Here, it's relatively easy to heat up the solder from the outside of the motor, pull the old pickup wire out, fish a new one in, and resolder ... all without having to remove the fiber plate. Unfortunately, that's not the case with your 259, as noted above.

Cheers,

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*Heat Shrink Gets My Vote.*

TJ,

I was originally thinking of using heat shrink tubing to at point where I can at lease solder new wire (and heat shrink that joint). But then I thought that it might be too much of a red-neck move (and me living in Ol' Virginny, go figure). That's the confidence boost that I need.

I should double check Mom's 259E, but I think that someone did the "cheating" trick when they ran into a similar problem: they drilled a hole in the pickup assembly and soldered a new wire to it.

The reversing wafer has screw binding posts so no solder is needed there. Thank goodness for that. Before I took off the wafer I used a paint pen to make sure that everything will align when I finally put the wiring harness back together.

Another question: I probably need to replace (or heat shrink) the wire going to the headlamp. Is the end of the wire in the headlamp just soldered in or riveted? I think I have seen something about lamp restoration before but I can't find it now.

Here's a silly photo of the mess I have plus most of the pieces of insulation. All I really did is remove the brush plate and then try to untangle the wires. I probably should have left things alone.

Thanks and take care... Mark


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

(I fixed your image link ... you had the URL wrong.)

The headlamp socket has a little fiber washer with a hole in the middle. The hole has a metal grommet. The wire is soldered to the grommet. Easy to unsolder and then solder on new wire ... just make sure your wire size fits through the grommet hole. And remember to pass the new wire through the lamp socket (and one other fiber washer) FIRST, before you solder it to the grommet-fiber-washer thing.

Looking at your pic, I would urge you do to a full rewire, with the exception of hte pickup wire previously discussed. What you have is described technically as: TOAST.

Connections should be easy. I did the same on a 262 motor recently. The wires screw on (no solder) to the brushplates, if I recall. Same to the switch, as you noted.

C'mon ... yank the old stuff off!

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I can tell per your pic that it's the field coil that's grounded to the motor frame / drive wheels ... not the armature, per my 1681 wiring diagram, above. So, switch routes electricity to/from armature, then sends it downstream to the field coil.


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

tjcruiser said:


> (I fixed your image link ... you had the URL wrong.)
> 
> The headlamp socket has a little fiber washer with a hole in the middle. The hole has a metal grommet. The wire is soldered to the grommet. Easy to unsolder and then solder on new wire ... just make sure your wire size fits through the grommet hole. And remember to pass the new wire through the lamp socket (and one other fiber washer) FIRST, before you solder it to the grommet-fiber-washer thing.
> 
> ...


Thanks for fixing the URL. What did I do wrong? Newbie here.

Toast? More like a bad corner back being beat on a long pass. 

Hopefully I can get some heat shrink all of the way down to the collector, I don't want to mess with the fiber holder or frame.

I thought that the field coil was ground, so there are other options available.

Thanks for the tips on the head lamp. I thought the wire was just soldered in there and I need to make sure that the wire is insulated past the fiber washer (?).


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Wire should be bare only in way of the metal grommet in the washer. You can have it long during the solder, then trim/grind it flush, so the the "bump" on the end of the bulb makes contact with the solder bead. You're just trying to pass electricity from the wire to the central "bump" on the bulb.

The lamp socket itself (brass cup with threads) is grounded to the motor frame / wheels.

I think you had a URL link to the PhotoBucket page, rather than a URL to the image itself. It needs to be the latter.

Regards,

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*Lookin' a little better*

I put new wires on the brushes and put heat shrink on the collector, coil and lamp wires. It's a really tight fit to the collector. I had to use some silicone jell on the outside of the tubing to get the heat shrink down to the bottom of the collector wire.










I just have things setup in prototype mode. I still need to check with a multimeter for any shorts. If things look electrically okay, I'll trim the wires to a better fit and then apply a little heat to shrink the tubing. The wires were originally just crammed under the shell and wrapped up in a seemingly haphazard way. I'll probably change out the lamp wire (instead of heat shrink) now that TJ told me how to get it done.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good progress. You want some slack in the wires on the top of the motor, but no so much that they crimp up and impede fitting the motor into the shell.

Be careful, too, with the path of the pickup wire ... try to coax it such that it (or your heat shrink tubing) isn't rubbing up against the spinning axle. You wouldn't want the axle wearing its way through the insulation over time.

Keep us posted!

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*The End Product*

Well, I finally everything back together. I messed up on some things and other things kind of surprised me.

First, I shorted the wires on the 259 motor and put some heat on the shrink tubing. All of the electric stuff checked out okay.









I got all of the wiring parts from Jeff at ttender. The parts from lower left and clockwise are: roller pickup, very small rivets, lamp holder, lamp contact, bulb, lamp contact insulator, screws that I found useless, and stranded wire with plastic insulation (later on the insulation).









Putting the roller pickup on the truck cross brace was not the easiest thing that I have done, especially not having any rivet tools around. On the Pullman I used the rivets that Jeff sent. I started the roll on the rivet by first using a Daisy BB on the end of the rivet. By squeezing the BB and the cross brace with a pair of narrow locking pliers the rivet started to roll, then the BB would get crushed flat. The remainder of the rolling was done with all sorts of "techniques". Eventually, the pickup seemed to be holding firm on the cross brace. When I was putting the truck back together I noticed that the screw for the pickup wire would touch the axle. So, I had to bend the tab holding the screw backwards about 45 degrees. The photo will show my attempt at using rivets and the truck assembly on the Pullman.










On the Observation car, I took a different approach. I found some small 1/8th inch aluminum pop rivets. I had to drill out the cross brace holes and the fiber plate with a 5/16th drill. Then, put the rivet through the pickup fiber plate and cross brace. It may be a ******* approach, but it worked! Here is a photo of the truck on the Observation car.









The lamp holder inside of the cars was a similar story. I couldn't use a screw to attach the holder so I used the pop rivets there also. Again, drill out the existing rivet? hole with a 5/16th inch drill and use the 1/8th inch pop rivet. It worked out just fine for me but if I ever need to remove the holder, it will be grinder time. I had options for either steel or aluminum pop rivets, so I chose aluminum in the event I had to back everything out.

Trying to put a blob of solder on the end of the stranded wire was an exercise in patience. When I just barely touched the wire strands with the soldering iron the plastic insulation would melt. Somehow I finally got enough solder on the wire by "wiping" a solder loaded iron across the strands. After that I just cut the excess strands off and crushed the solder a little to form a good contact for the bulb. Here is another ******* approach with the pop rivet.









The lights do flicker but after running them around in a loop for a few hours and also cleaning the track really cut down of the flicker. 

I followed several of your recommendations for cleaning up the old cars. I used the oven cleaner method (the cheap stuff from a Dollar _something_ store worked just fine). When the paint was stripped, I cleaned up each car with a Dremel steel brush to get rid of the remaining rust and pitting. The Dremel brush also worked great on the truck wheels and axles.

If I had to do this again, I will purchase some Lionel true colors from Hennings. I don't have an air brush but maybe I should have shelled out around $25 for a cheapie air brush gun and propellent. I got some Rustoleum primer and Krylon colors from a "local" (15 miles away) big box hardware store. I thought that the Krylon cap colors were very very close to the Lionel Orange and Terra Cotta but I think that the Krylon Orange is darker than the original Lionel Orange. I couldn't find any colors in a rattle can that matched the Lionel Cream. The closest that I could find was an Almond in Krylon. Also, the Terra Cotta only came in a matte or satin finish. I gave the Terra Cotta a few coats of clear gloss enamel, which I think came out okay. I found some semi-transparent plastic file folders that I used for the windows. I like the frosted look better than the clear. I used press-on lettering that I found on the 'Net. The next time I'll probably make my own lettering on my computer with some Avery clear labels. The lettering is kind of crooked and uneven but that's my fault. My hand-eye coordination left me when I quit playing 3rd base about 30 years ago.

I could probably buy the correct colors and do the paint job over but I want to give this to my son on his birthday this weekend. The only person who will know that the cars are painted with incorrect colors will be me (and of course, the folks on this forum). 

Here is the rest of the stable:

259 locomotive with cleaned shiny stuff and a coat of clear gloss:









A tender that is closer to what the original 259 had. Again, stripped, cleaned, painted and shiny stuff cleaned up and covered with a clear gloss. Unfortunately when I was cleaning the side brass plates, I took out the original black lettering that was in the "embossed" brass plate. I could probably get some black paint paste and rub-on, rub-off to get the embossed lettering back.









The Pullman:









And the Observation:









Observation Balcony:









I want to personally thank all of the folks on this forum for their assistance. I could not have done this without your help and support.

Take care - Mark


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## Hellgate (Nov 9, 2011)

Great Job! They look awesome!
What's the next project?? :thumbsup:


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I run my trains to polish the rails. As you found out, the more you run the trains, the better is the polish of the rails. As a rule, I don't clean track or track pins.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They look great! What a comeback! :thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SoShore,

Wow! That's some restoration work! This, coming from a guy who's been down many similar roads. Nicely done, throughout!

One word of caution for you ... be careful about mixing Rustoleum primer with Krylon paint (or vice versa) ... we've had some bad experiences with solvent incompatibility here on the forum, and I'd hate to have that ball fall in your court.

Did you clear-coat your shiny bits? Domes, journal boxes, obs balcony, etc.?

You might be able to rub a black Sharpie marker into the tender lettering, and then wipe off the excess with a light dab of isopropyl alchohol on a qtip. The black from the Sharpie will likely stay in the lettering grooves.

Excellent work! Thanks for sharing!


TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Just Super! :thumbsup: Another success story. :appl::appl:


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

tjcruiser said:


> SoShore,
> 
> One word of caution for you ... be careful about mixing Rustoleum primer with Krylon paint (or vice versa) ... we've had some bad experiences with solvent incompatibility here on the forum, and I'd hate to have that ball fall in your court.
> 
> ...


TJ, thanks for the heads up on mixing Rustoleum with Krylon. I learned the hard way from a previous project that sometimes enamel and lacquer don't cohabitate well.

I was in a hurry last night getting the photos uploaded. I'll try to get an additional pix or two of the 259 showing the clear-coat on the shiny stuff. I attempted to put clear-coat on anything that shined, domes, journal boxes, balcony, smoke stack, handrails, etc.

I'll also try your Sharpie idea on the tender and let you know how that works out. Thanks again for your assistance.

Thanks to all for the kudos. Much appreciated. - Mark


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Mark,

What type of clearcoat did you use? The balcony on the obs car looks wonderful!

TJ


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## Srook (Jan 3, 2013)

Those look great! Nice job.

I can speak to prewar paint a little bit. I found this in the CTT forums: There was a Classic Toy Trains article (March 2001) that listed some close over the counter matches for prewar paint: 

Ivory: Krylon Enamel, Antique White *I was unable to find this particular color on their website or at Walmart. I'm not sure it exists anymore. 

Cream: Rustoleum Enamel, Warm Yellow "Painter's Touch Line" *I have used this and it is really close to exact. Just as close as the Hennings paints.

Gateman Green: Tru-Blue Hardware, Tru-Test Enamel, Clover Green *I haven't looked for this one yet.

The Collector Color enamels from Hennings are very close but they are not exact matches. They are great if you are repainting everything but if you wanted to use them as touch up, they would not blend perfectly. You can brush paint these but it will leave brush marks. I haven't tried dipping an item yet like Lionel did but I will one of these days. 

Scott


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

*Bling*



tjcruiser said:


> Mark,
> 
> What type of clearcoat did you use? The balcony on the obs car looks wonderful!
> 
> TJ


The bottle says: *MODEL MASTER* _Custom Enamel System_ Gloss Clear Lacquer Finish. I don't know how something can be an enamel and also lacquer??? I used a small brush. I think the flash from the camera had a lot to do with the BLING on the balcony. 

The last pix of the 259 before I wrap it up in Happy Birthday paper. I was anxious on removing the headlamp bezel so I just painted it while it was on the front boiler plate. It looks like the bezel is cast zinc and I have no idea on how remove it and put it back on easily. If you notice, I took a small chip out of the 259 label in the upper right hand corner. I backed up the hole with a scrap of tissue paper.










The Sharpie idea didn't work on the tender. I guess the chemicals in the Sharpie didn't get along with the clear finish on the brass. No big deal. A little alcohol cleaned up a small mess. Thanks for the tip. If I didn't try I would have never known. My son won't care. Take care.


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

Srook said:


> Those look great! Nice job.
> 
> I can speak to prewar paint a little bit. I found this in the CTT forums: There was a Classic Toy Trains article (March 2001) that listed some close over the counter matches for prewar paint:
> 
> ...


Hey thanks Scott. I'll look around for the Rustoleum Warm Yellow. I used the Krylon Ivory for a Cream substitute but it didn't have that slight yellow hue that the Lionel Cream has. The only complaint that I hear from us "can't wait" guys is that the Hennings paints take 2-4 hours just to dry to touch, let alone work with the painted part. When I retire....

Thanks - Mark


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## Srook (Jan 3, 2013)

I found the Hennings paints to need at least 6-12 hours before they set up. Mine were still tacky after 4 hours. They are really great for painting inside because they don't have that bad spray paint smell.

Scott


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SoShores,

For future reference, you can remove the cast headlamp (259, 1681) by Dremel-grinding the slightly pressed-over left and right tongues on the inside of the boiler front. It's more of a "kiss" with the Dremel than a full grind. Once out (and after repaint), I reinstall them with a drop or two of gap-style CA glue. I haven't had one fall off, yet.

Separately ...

You've done so, so much more in this thread than simply adding lights to a 603/604. I'd like to suggest a thread title change ... more reflective of all of your handiwork here.

You suggest the new Title, and I'll change it.

Deal?

TJ


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

tjcruiser said:


> SoShores,
> 
> Separately ...
> 
> ...


TJ - I'll give *you* poetic license. Thanks for the offer but what I did is nowhere near what others have done. I'll be humble for the time being. - Mark


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

TJ,

Nice thread title. Thanks - Mark


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sweet & simple! :thumbsup:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks for switching the title; I wouldn't have read it otherwise. I bet it will look great on the track. The side rails really pop.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice job indeed. :thumbsup:

One comment on your rewire job.
I don't really think you needed the shrink wrap at all.
Is there some reason you needed it?
Or did you just want extra protection?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The stuff looks great, more antiques saved from the scrap heap of history! :thumbsup:


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## SoShoresGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

big ed said:


> Nice job indeed. :thumbsup:
> 
> One comment on your rewire job.
> I don't really think you needed the shrink wrap at all.
> ...


When I took the brush plate off to check the brushes and armature the insulation just disintegrated. I guess I could have lived with a few sparks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like an atomic blast there.


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## Wabashbud (Jun 25, 2010)

Wow great restoration and great thread. There is more info in this thread than any Greenberg book I've seen. I have got to bookmark this someway. I have a 259E that is in dire need of restoration so this thread is going to be a guiding light for me.


Bud


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