# Power pack questions



## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

Ok I got a question that no one here local seems to be able to answer so I hope maybe someone here can...

what I want to do is use a controler thats more "realistic" to train controls (or as close as I can get) and what I want to know is this...can I safely use the control pictured below thats used on O scale (or G scale) with out worries that it will burn out my HO engines? can I use ANY G scale controller in general??


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

O scale is AC and therefore cannot be used for HO. G scale controllers are DC. The difference is that the put out more current than HO ones do. It is best not to run an HO engine at that high rating. You could use a resister to drop the output to what a good HO one puts out. The MRC 7000 has a switch on the back that does just this allowing it to run G, HO or N without an issue. The 7000 does not have the type of handle you are looking for.


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

oh well im thinking of finding something similar to that for someone I know who wants to run a train of there own but has problems useing the small rehostat knobs (hands don't grab things very well and there fore need larger easy to grab things) so would you have any thing in mind that would fit the bill? thats the main reason im looking for something different, but if not its not a big deal


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

MRC tech 2 or 4 would be your best bet, large knob and HO compatible!
G scale controllers not only put out more amps they also put out a higher voltage limits. Both would do some serious damage to a HO engine!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you can find the handle, it wouldn't be all that hard to "roll your own" HO controller to use it.


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## Ed Gerken (Jan 23, 2012)

Current use in a DC train is based on the motor's internal resistance. It will only draw that amount, no more, no less. Having more current available does not "overjuice" the train. Having more than you need may help to power multiple trains or other gadgets on the line. Having too little current is probably worse than having too much.

Take a car battery for instance. Having 80 or 100 amps available to crank the starter motor doesn't mean your headlamps or CD player get cooked. Each device takes only what it's internal resistance says it will using Ohm's Law.

Excessive voltage can be an issue, but how many of us run at or near full throttle for long periods? 

On the other side of the coin, an accidental wiring short or other error that crosses the power wires to the track can have a meltdown if the available current is high. If your engine is dirty and sluggish from old grease, it will draw more current to do the work. If your transformer is vastly over-rated to the engine, it will loaf along while slow-cooking your engine. Admitted, if your engine needs maintenance, you can't really blame the power supply, but a smaller supply would limit the current and maybe give you time to notice a problem before a failure occured. And an over-sized supply is just wasted cost in large transformers, etc to have way more than you need, so it's good to scale things so they match your requirements with added capacity for expansion.

This has nothing to do with the size of the throttle handle. You could rig such a handle off a 9-volt battery if ya wanted to! Keep your ACs and DCs straight and you shouldn't have any problems if your wiring and motive power is up to snuff.

-Ed


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

well there could easialy be 3 or 4+ engines on the same track and things like that...but I do get the point about not wanting to have more then absolutely needed...


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

3 or 4 engines off of a single DC controller is near to impossible to achieve.
(1) If you want to run them in a consist they will have to be speed matched and thats really hard to do!
(2) If you want to run them all on one layout not connected, why would you want them all running at the same speed? 
(3) You would have to break the layout into blocks and run them off separate cabs (Transformers), so you could run it off of a small transformers with no problem.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

In any case, I recommend the track connections have circuit protection, either fuses or fast acting circuit breakers. For my O-scale TMCC stuff, I use a Lionel TMCC lockon, it has a fast acting electronic circuit breaker and a 15A relay. It will trip out on a short in milli-seconds, and probably not many of those.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

NIMT said:


> 3 or 4 engines off of a single DC controller is near to impossible to achieve.
> (1) If you want to run them in a consist they will have to be speed matched and thats really hard to do!
> (2) If you want to run them all on one layout not connected, why would you want them all running at the same speed?
> (3) You would have to break the layout into blocks and run them off separate cabs (Transformers), so you could run it off of a small transformers with no problem.


I am glade no one told me that.





 
I am running 3 Steem locos off of each controler. I can not aford to convert to DCC.


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

well the need is there as we plan to have at least a %6 HO scale grade for freight trains to get up and the trains will need to have helper locos connected (were doing this on purpose to simulate real life train ops) and were trying to model as closely the Marianas pass (i think thats the name, need to check again) which I think IIRC is a major BNSF line.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

New Berlin RR,
Are you talking about the Marias Pass? In Montana?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Marias Pass is in Montana, crosses the Continental divide, it's not that tall or that steep of a pass, summit is 5213ft, and the grade 1.8%. The challenge to this pass is (#1), The grade is across 79miles and (#2), 3/4 of the year the weather is fairly cold and nasty! It's a BNSF mainline and Amtrak lease (Empire Builder) and both run the line year around.
That pass is only about 4 hours away from me, and I've got 2.5 to 3 feet of snow here, so they probably have closer to 15 to 20 feet up there!
The avarage string of cars is well over a mile long, I see them every day going by my house!

To do a 6% grade in HO is WAYYYY to steep You will be lucky to get an engine to pull itself up the grade, let alone pulling a mile line string of cars too!
3.5% is about max and that's really at the highest limit of workable!


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

NIMT said:


> To do a 6% grade in HO is WAYYYY to steep You will be lucky to get an engine to pull itself up the grade, let alone pulling a mile line string of cars too!
> 3.5% is about max and that's really at the highest limit of workable!


I agree 100%. my one raised track is 3.2% and a single engine will not pull but a few cars up it. I did not want to make it that step but there was not enough room to make it longer.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Southern said:


> I agree 100%. my one raised track is 3.2% and a single engine will not pull but a few cars up it. I did not want to make it that step but there was not enough room to make it longer.


 
I am wrong!  I just pulled 21 car up my grade and over the bridge with one diesel engine. A Union Pacific DD-40 #70.


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

NIMT said:


> 3 or 4 engines off of a single DC controller is near to impossible to achieve.


So I've heard. lol. My transformers range from a little MRC Railpower 1300 to two huge MRC Power Command 9500, a huge MRC Sound and Power and a few intermediate transformers in between. I have two main trains that I run, both with three engines. One has Two Atlas GP38s and a Bachmann GP30 pulling it and the other has One Athearn RTR GP38, one Atlas RS36, one Athearn RTR GP35 or instead a Bachmann SD40-2 pulling it. I run and switch both of these trains with the smallest up to the largest tranformers and have never had any kind of a problem with them or the transformers in doing so. If I had, I wouldn't continue to run them this way simply because, let's face it, burning up an engine is not the suggested way of running them by any model train manufacturer. lol. 

The Athearn bluebox engines had a much higher power draw as did the some of the Protos, Bachmanns and other brands. Thus, it was exactly like you say. Trying to find engines that matched was usually next to impossible. This is the reason there were as many dummies on the market as there were powered engines. But with some of the engines of today, especially those of Atlas, Athearn RTR, Athearn Genises, Kato, and some Bachmann, running them together is a lot easier to acheive, as their power draw is about half of what most of the older models were. I can see this first hand when I run my engines with either of my Power Command transformers, as each has a buit in ammeter and voltmeter. 

One average bluebox Athearn GP draws as much power as two Atlas GPs or two Kato SDs. Modern switch engines by Atlas and Athearn Genises draw next to nothing. This is precisely why ALL of my Athearn bluebox engines along with ALL of my other older engines of other brands such as Bachmann, Proto, Lifelike, Tyco and AHM now sit at either sidings enhancing the realism of the area scenery or on a shelf on the wall rather than running. I like running multibles, and though all of these engines will remain close to my heart forever, the fact is that I can't do this with these, so I retired them.

Routerman


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2012)

I have an analog multimeter, unused for decades. You've made me want to break it out. I have power needs. I have two really long loops (long for a floor rig in an apartment) almost 40' each. I can set two similar HO engines half-way apart and run for a while before they meet. I have seen a few amp ratings on powerpacks and amplifiers. How much current do I really need to run two new engines on one loop? Is 5 amps WAAAAY too much?


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I want to add a volt meter, and a amp meter to my layout. What is the range that I need to get?


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have two Athearn DD-40 dual motor locomotives that are in sync with each other and I have run together. I have replaced all of the motors in them with the most recent type of blue box motor. Also, all of the trucks are properly lubed. They were tested for several minutes on an oval and found never to catch each other. To power them I use an MRC Sound and Power 7000. This is not a small transformer, one of the larger ones for DC. It will power 4 blue box motors and not get hot or trip the overload.

I do have a 3.something grade corkscrewing up a hill with a 20r turn. On engine alone pulls 15-20 cars up the hill. Two of the DD40s together pull far more. The issue is that at the base and crest of the hill the couplers bang into each other or stretch as the first engine adjust for the hill. It should also be noted that all of the cars in this constant have metal wheel sets and roll real well.


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

NIMT said:


> Marias Pass is in Montana, crosses the Continental divide, it's not that tall or that steep of a pass, summit is 5213ft, and the grade 1.8%. The challenge to this pass is (#1), The grade is across 79miles and (#2), 3/4 of the year the weather is fairly cold and nasty! It's a BNSF mainline and Amtrak lease (Empire Builder) and both run the line year around.
> That pass is only about 4 hours away from me, and I've got 2.5 to 3 feet of snow here, so they probably have closer to 15 to 20 feet up there!
> The avarage string of cars is well over a mile long, I see them every day going by my house!
> 
> ...


yea thats the one hes wanting to replicate as close as possible, hes a BNSF junky so to say  and he may be off on grade, but hes wanting to get as close as he can in HO if not dead on spot


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2012)

Here's a fun catalog:

http://www.microstru.com/index.html


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

this site of yours looks interesting...I can see some odd and fun things coming from the items...


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## jzrouterman (Nov 27, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> How much current do I really need to run two new engines on one loop?


Well this largely depends on the engines and the transformer. Basically just try it and see. If the transformer begins to feel hot, or the engines just seem to run at a crawl even at a high position or at full throttle than you really need a larger transformer with more power. If the engines run very well together, but when with the addition of rolling stock they slow down considerably, this mean that the cars are placing a drag on your engines. Check all the wheels of the rolling stock. If any are made of plastic, replace them with metal wheels. If all are already metal then this means that some or all of their trucks need to be tuned. What you want is for the wheels to be completely free wheeling. Tuning the trucks accomplishes this. Here's the linc for a tuner. Instructions come with it. http://www.micromark.com/ho-truck-tuner,8241.html

Routerman


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## Tino (Apr 25, 2012)

Hello, does anyone here know if there is a dcc equivalent to the mrc tech4 260 transformer. I am looking to purchase this mrc because of it's power. If there is a dcc equivalent as far as power and momentum feature and not to expensive please let me know. Thank you in advance for any help that can be provided. I am not to experienced with dcc as i am now going into ho scale.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Tino, 
There really isn't an "equivalent" DCC unit.
The MRC Tech4 is a DC transformer that just puts out a variable voltage.
DCC is a completely different animal.
Read up on Digitrax or NCE they are the top 2 DCC units available in the US.
And go to this link DCC_Tutorial_(Starter_Sets).


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