# K-Line K3688-4449-CC



## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

I just saw one of these variations of the Daylight 4449 and it is definately a nice looking and pretty well equipped engine. It sounds like it has a lot of Lionel electronics in it which sounds like at least you could get parts for it when they are needed. Does anybody know anything about these engines and what to expect the price to go for in like new condition.? Starts at $329. Are they classed as being above or below an MTH ps variation.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have that exact locomotive, and it's very nicely detailed. It even has the prototypical working MARS light, the enclosed cab, etc. 

Very nice locomotive if you can get it for a decent price. It uses standard Lionel boards except for the K-Line cruise. If you ever have issues with the cruise, you can replace it with the ERR Cruise Commander M, so you're covered for parts.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have that exact locomotive, and it's very nicely detailed. It even has the prototypical working MARS light, the enclosed cab, etc.
> 
> Very nice locomotive if you can get it for a decent price. It uses standard Lionel boards except for the K-Line cruise. If you ever have issues with the cruise, you can replace it with the ERR Cruise Commander M, so you're covered for parts.


 This one listed for $569 in the 2000 catalog, I don't know what to expect it to go for or how popular they are, it sure looks nice though other than what looks like maby some rust on the drive rods that hopefuly could be polished off. Do you think it will go over $400 or even higher?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I just use Gixen to set a snipe bid price at what I'm willing to pay and wait and see if I get it. It's impossible to figure out what stuff may go for on eBay, sometimes you get a bargain, other times it gets absurd!


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

What do you need to do to get the sound working on this guy?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Rich, what makes you think the sound isn't working?


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

When I push the whistle control on the ZW transformer, nothing happens. With a conventional engine, the whistle works ok. After checking on the manual you directed me to , I found out that this engine has the Lionel Rail sounds. Also, another engine just acquired (again no manual) a weaver also evidently has the Lionel Railsounds. 
Stopped by a local train dealer who told me nope, unless your engine says Lionel on it , it will not have Railsounds. Soooo now the question, what should I do, this side of getting rid of all my ZW original transformers, to get Railsounds to work properly and completely on my layout. I have currently the ability of operating 3 separate trains at one time. Once my helix is done, will have 4. I think John it is time for you to escape the Winter weather and take a trip out to Arizona!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

First off, the dealer that you talked to doesn't know what he's talking about! A number of companies licensed TMCC and RailSounds from Lionel, and K-Line was one such company. I have a number of K-line locomotives that came stock with TMCC and RailSounds. Weaver also licensed TMCC and RailSounds from Lionel. Sunset 3rd Rail is yet another licensee of TMCC and RailSounds.

How about we step back and fine out what's really happening.

When you run the engine, do you get chuffing sound? Did you check the tender switch and make sure it's in the RailSounds position and not the SignalSounds position?

Perhaps it's time to use a separate whistle/bell switch to see if it's just the transformer. Note that the ZW has to be under load to generate the proper offset for the whistle.


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

My kind of guy, let's cut to the chase! I will check it today, however I also purchased a Weaver Santa Fe A and B unit, both powered, and have the same issue, no sound. As to chugging, puffing, other than me after walking around....nope. There are none of those sounds. Am I to understand that the engine should be making these sounds just on it's own? Will get you some px today. Bought a couple of other engines yesterday at the local train show. One I think is a weaver the other don't know. Both large Diesels. Will try them today and feed you the info. I am also reading your comments regarding the TVS protection diodes. You are correct that after a short the transformer can very much kick out some wicked spikes. As a general rule, 1st rule, when in the short mode turn power off to the tracks. That should allow the transformer to recharge on it's own. Also am purchasing some 5 amp circuit breakers. Don't trust the ZW ones. Also now own 8 ZW transformers and cannot figure out why they used a negative bias on their DC charge for the whistles. Suppose in 1933 just was all that was necessary. Maybe one of these days, I will actually get to play with the trains.....but truthfully, having a great time!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Let us know how your tests go. 

For sound equipped locomotives, they should be making prime mover (or chuffing) sounds when they're moving without any other prodding. If they're not, something is amiss.


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

Yup, another one of my train show treasures. A few years ago, I would have set it up on the bench, got the scope out and fixed it. Now a days, I'll order replacement boards. 

A post note. I wondered why all the discussions regarding protection of these devices. I think I am getting some on board experience as to how delicate these are trying to work a dc device (which normally are very durable) in an AC environment. 

Once again I agree with your evaluation of potential issues when the transformer goes into short circuit mode. The transformer is still powered up, but with nowhere to go, it can develop some serious spikes. Additional outside protection of an external circuit breaker is good advise, however, the key is before resetting the breaker, turn the control on the transformer to the off position. 

With now 3 units with DC board problems, fool me once...............


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

John, let's think about something. Most all transformers have 2 wire cords. I rewire them with a 3 prong plug, just for the purpose of you can't plug them in wrong and keep them in phase. It may be a good idea to terminate the protection diodes to a real electrical ground, and give a path to send this stuff away from our layouts. Could use the ground lead for that. Whatcha think.?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think you're introducing another variable into the mix. Since the locomotive only knows track common (wheels), and hot (center roller), protection there is best.

Truthfully, if you're really wanting to protect the electronics, installing the TVS diode in each locomotive (and tender if it has separate rollers) is the best protection. The closer the TVS is to the circuit being protected, the better the protection.


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

The tests all proved out that there is problems with the audio in the engines/ tenders. Re tvs protection, at the price, (about 60 cents each) I agree, why not install everywhere, but in theory, I would like to kill the problem before it hits the tracks. Have in mind building a box with 4 diode arrays for the railsound whistles and bells, 4 circuit breakers, and 4 TVS/s and add a ground wire to the third pin on the plugs. We used to have a saying in mobile electronics, you cannot have too many grounds. 

I assume these guys know what they are doing, but it seems to me a bridge with reversible inputs and outputs would work just as well and could be used as an addition to vs instead of, keeping the input voltage constant.... have to experiment with that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, grounds in the command environment are bad. Neither TMCC or DCS like any of the rails returned to true earth ground, that's just the way it works.

Note than in some cases, adding transient protection to ground when there is no other ground reference can actually inject transients into the circuits rather than avoid them.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have that exact locomotive, and it's very nicely detailed. It even has the prototypical working MARS light, the enclosed cab, etc.
> 
> Very nice locomotive if you can get it for a decent price. It uses standard Lionel boards except for the K-Line cruise. If you ever have issues with the cruise, you can replace it with the ERR Cruise Commander M, so you're covered for parts.


 Well I won the bid on this engine yesterday and it's supposed to be here between thursday and saturday. This is my first time buying something on Ebay so at least I feel confident using it now. I just hope I won't be disappointed with it when it gets here but I know how pictures can really not show a lot of things, I'm mainly concerned about the electronics though. 
I know an MTH ps2 or later that was last ran on a DCS track needs a reset or something to work in Conventional mode again using by use of another DCS system. Does the Trainmaster system work the same way. I don't know what this train was last run with. 
But as far as detail goes I haven't seen many that look this good, especially the front of the engine. At least I know who to talk to especially since you have one of these too if something goes wrong. And with my luck lately don't be suprised if you find it showing up at your house one day with a sign saying "Please Fix Me" I've been following this thread with the other questions posted about it and trying to absorb as much as I can if any of it might pertain to me too.


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

Re using true grounding, I yield to the more experienced source. Been a tech long enough to realize some things do not necessarily need further explanation other than good old fashioned been there done that experience.


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## Rich (Dec 14, 2013)

Yup, our experience is that there are real potential risks with solid state equipment in the model train world. Gunrunners experience should be listened to very carefully regarding installing TVS diodes. Some things tis better just to yield to the expert users. Re bargains, at the price of new equipment, when you purchase used at less than 50% of new, I suppose we can afford to risk a bit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TMCC/Legacy doesn't need anything special to run on conventional layouts. I will say that I don't believe I've ever tried to run mine in conventional mode, most of my stuff has never run with anything but command. Occasionally, by accident, I'll have a very short high speed run when I turn on the transformer and the command base isn't powered on, but I'm quick on the switch before I pick up too much speed!


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have that exact locomotive, and it's very nicely detailed. It even has the prototypical working MARS light, the enclosed cab, etc.
> 
> Very nice locomotive if you can get it for a decent price. It uses standard Lionel boards except for the K-Line cruise. If you ever have issues with the cruise, you can replace it with the ERR Cruise Commander M, so you're covered for parts.


 I recieved this engine today and it is in brand new condition. I didn't expect it to be that nice because of the way it was listed but the traction tires are the type with tread on them and don't have the slightest trace of a mark on them at all and not one nick anywhere in the paint and no marks on the wheels or rollers . The only thing I can't figure out is that it doesn't smoke. I gave it a good bit of smoke fluid, all together about 2/3 of a dropper full total over the 3 times that I checked for smoke thinking it was brand new and I wanted to soak the wick pretty good first.
On the bottom of the tender is a switch showing RS and SS and a volume screw for the sound which does work fine. I have the switch in the RS position which I imagine is Railsounds but what does SS stand for, could it mean smoke system? If that's what it is does that mean you can't have smoke and sound at the same time? 
There wasn't an instruction sheet in the box but other than that even the box looked new including the lift out ribbons and protective wrapping. Since this engine is so obviously new I have a hard time believing that the smoke system is burnt out already and there is just something I haven't discovered yet on it. Is there a hidden switch somewhere or a volume screw for smoke. And also, how do you fire the coupler running in Conventional mode? I am using an MTH 1000 transformer with the standard controller.
Is there a site on the web that you can view the instructions for this engine? I figured if anybody knew anything about this thing it would be you since you have one as well. 
What I thought might have been rust on the drive rods in the pictures is just the way they are anodized and I couldn't be happier with the looks of this engine and wouldn't trade it for the new MTH Imperial version even if it was available and I got this for $329, that's $130 less than the new MTH version and it looks like they have just about the same features. I just hope this one lasts longer than the 2 new PS3's I recently bought which I don't have either one of now, always in warranty repair!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

SS - Signal Sounds

That turns off everything but the horn and bell which are manually commanded.

There is no way to fire the coupler in conventional mode.

There should be a smoke switch on the locomotive if I recall correctly, not on the tender. Also, if the R2LC is programmed incorrectly, you may have a problem with the smoke. I recently had one that the R2LC was programmed for a strobe light and not smoke, and it had to be reset with a TMCC command system to the proper operation. If you listen closely to the smoke unit, do you hear the motor pulsing on and off?

Mine is in the box buried in my closet right now, so I can't look at it.

Don't put any more smoke fluid in, you have plenty! If you soak it more, you risk overflowing the unit and making a mess inside the engine.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> SS - Signal Sounds
> 
> That turns off everything but the horn and bell which are manually commanded.
> 
> ...


 Does this one actually have a fan for the smoke system, I thought it was just a mechanical puffer type of thing? I haven't heard a fan motor running at all like the MTH's do. I'll look closer for a switch and inside the hinged boiler on the front. This engine does have the working Mars light but the box does say it has an "operating smoke exhaust unit".
I notice the throttle is very sensitive when it gets to about the 60-70% range. This is supposed to have cruise control but it accelerates all of a sudden on it's own when the engine is cruising at that setting to the point I'm afraid it would flip over and this is with 4 lighted passenger cars. It has excellent slow speed and a very wide range on the throttle on the low end. It just seems like it is going slower than most other engines in that range till the throttle gets to about 70% and then it seems like it makes up for it all at once like going from 40 to 80 mph by itself without me touching the throttle and will maintain that setting till you back it down. Could any of this be from using the MTH transformer? I also have a brand new CW80 from a starter set I recently bought and never plugged in yet, think it would make any difference? 
I ran it a little while ago in the dark and the Mars Light, lighted cab, flickering fire box and all the little lights work perfect. Other than these few things I love this engine and now the 4449 Daylight train is finally complete and no more waiting on the MTH one to come out. I might even luck out and get the Santa Fe PS3 back someday and have a pair of 4-8-4's finally


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

Rabbitman said:


> Does this one actually have a fan for the smoke system, I thought it was just a mechanical puffer type of thing? I haven't heard a fan motor running at all like the MTH's do. I'll look closer for a switch and inside the hinged boiler on the front. This engine does have the working Mars light but the box does say it has an "operating smoke exhaust unit".
> I notice the throttle is very sensitive when it gets to about the 60-70% range. This is supposed to have cruise control but it accelerates all of a sudden on it's own when the engine is cruising at that setting to the point I'm afraid it would flip over and this is with 4 lighted passenger cars. It has excellent slow speed and a very wide range on the throttle on the low end. It just seems like it is going slower than most other engines in that range till the throttle gets to about 70% and then it seems like it makes up for it all at once like going from 40 to 80 mph by itself without me touching the throttle and will maintain that setting till you back it down. Could any of this be from using the MTH transformer? I also have a brand new CW80 from a starter set I recently bought and never plugged in yet, think it would make any difference?
> I ran it a little while ago in the dark and the Mars Light, lighted cab, flickering fire box and all the little lights work perfect. Other than these few things I love this engine and now the 4449 Daylight train is finally complete and no more waiting on the MTH one to come out. I might even luck out and get the Santa Fe PS3 back someday and have a pair of 4-8-4's finally


 I brought the engine in a few hours ago and really gave it a good look underneath and found the 3 switches and the one for smoke was indeed turned off. All excited I took it back to the track and it does have the fan smoke system but it doesn't make much smoke even throttled way up to the point of flying off the track but it does work like it's supposed to I guess. I imagine this is where you do the resistor change mod but the little fan does run like it should.
Another switch I found was the cruise control switch on the engine. It was in the cruise on position and I tried it in the off position and it made it run more like most other engines in the higher throttle range with no big speed jumps between throttle positions like it was doing with it turned on. 
But what it did do was take away the very low speed control that it had for starting out more like a real engine does. I guess that's why there's a switch so you can pick the mode you like best. I don't have any elevated track and no real need for cruise control but I do like the way it made the engine run at very low even creeping speed but it's very unstable at 2/3 or more throttle and really takes off on it's own after a few laps in the on position.
I guess this is the way it was originally designed and with the technology that's in it from 2005 when it was released. I imagine everything is working like it's supposed too and nothing is wrong other than needing the smoke mod which I will try with your direction and where to get the resistors and such. I can solder fine as long as I know what and where to do it. 
One more question, Does this engine have lighted number boards on the front of the boiler? It has the constant voltage headlight and the working Mars light which both work perfect but there are a lot more than 4 wires on the inside of the boiler cover inside and I wonder if some of them go to the number boards on the front of the boiler since some of them go that direction inside. They do not light as of now but every other light on the engine does work. Am I just wishing for something to work that's not there in the first place I do love this engine though and my first Ebay purchase also


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You probably need to put a new wick into the smoke unit, and changing the resistor to a 20 ohm from the stock 27 ohm will make a significant difference as well.

I confess, without taking it out, I don't know if the number boards are lighted. You should be able to shine a light on them and see if they are translucent.

I don't recall any sudden acceleration knee with mine, the cruise actually works pretty well for me. There are some tuning parameters for the K-Line cruise module. I've attached a sheet of stuff I've compiled from various sources about the K-Line cruise.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You probably need to put a new wick into the smoke unit, and changing the resistor to a 20 ohm from the stock 27 ohm will make a significant difference as well.
> 
> I confess, without taking it out, I don't know if the number boards are lighted. You should be able to shine a light on them and see if they are translucent.
> 
> I don't recall any sudden acceleration knee with mine, the cruise actually works pretty well for me. There are some tuning parameters for the K-Line cruise module. I've attached a sheet of stuff I've compiled from various sources about the K-Line cruise.


 I was showing my Cousin this engine this evening, I still had it in the "cruise off" mode because it seems more stable in the 70% speed range and showed him how it smoked but not much to brag about. I then switched it to "cruise on" position to show him how slow it would run and as soon as it hit the direction button the smoke started pouring out of the smokestack unbelievably thick and pulsing just like a newer MTH does. I then switched back to "cruise off" mode after watching this thing show off for a while and it went back to just little whisps at the higher throttle settings and almost nothing below that. I went through both of these modes yesterday and it didn't make much or any difference in smoke and I guess it probably shouldn't but today it sure did for some reason
Evidently this is the programming thing you've talked about before since the cruise control and smoke aren't consistent or smoothly operating. I just couldn't believe how much smoke started pouring out of it though when it decided to really work since I've always heard K-Lines don't smoke much, is this even normal, the fan motor seems to cycle and you can deffinately hear it, especially in the "SS" mode. Do you have any thoughts about any of these symptoms.
Also I noticed this evening that when going over these 027 switches set at 14 volt constant voltage sometimes the electro coupler will open on it's own, would this be something to do with the anti-derailing feature possibly?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What you see is normal operation in conventional mode. When you are running with cruise control, the track voltage has to be higher to allow the cruise to have some "reserve" power for keeping the speed constant. The higher track voltage in conventional mode also gives the smoke unit more voltage, hence more smoke.

I can hear the smoke motor in many of my locomotives, some are louder than others. When the motor stops, I replace it. 

The coupler opening can happen with electrical noise or a mechanical issue. There is a suggest fix for that. You connect a 1uf non-polarized capacitor across the electrocoupler leads. I typically put them at the motherboard connection. You can also unplug the electrocoupler connector and run it to see if it's a mechanical issue. If so, that normally involves either some graphite lube (the easiest) to taking the coupler apart and polishing some of the surfaces internally.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What you see is normal operation in conventional mode. When you are running with cruise control, the track voltage has to be higher to allow the cruise to have some "reserve" power for keeping the speed constant. The higher track voltage in conventional mode also gives the smoke unit more voltage, hence more smoke.
> 
> I can hear the smoke motor in many of my locomotives, some are louder than others. When the motor stops, I replace it.
> 
> The coupler opening can happen with electrical noise or a mechanical issue. There is a suggest fix for that. You connect a 1uf non-polarized capacitor across the electrocoupler leads. I typically put them at the motherboard connection. You can also unplug the electrocoupler connector and run it to see if it's a mechanical issue. If so, that normally involves either some graphite lube (the easiest) to taking the coupler apart and polishing some of the surfaces internally.[body off the tender today


 I took the body off the tender today to see about unplugging the coupler and followed the 2 little black wires to a plug that had some other wires on the plug too. I didn't unplug it since I have no idea what they control. Could I just snip the 2 coupler wires and tape them up, leaving room to resolder them later? 

Since I don't have any type of a Command system I can't fire the thing anyway and the engine seems to have stabilized somewhat and not taking off as bad and I also notice that I can have the throttle is turned up a lot farther now with the engine still at a lower speed than before. It seems like the throttle is just about where it was while I was running the 2 PS3 engines with the train about the same speed they were too. I have no idea how it changed but it did

If I can just snip those 2 wires to test for the problem I will probably try the fix you describe above. I'm liking this engine more everyday and it makes plenty of smoke. I saw the battery plug while I had it apart and stuck a new one in and it does power down now after the throttle is cut so that works too. 

Does radio Shack or whatever they call it nowadays carry the little capacitor? I've never bought things like that but I'd like to know more about that type of thing anyway. I know I can probably get the capacitor on line but I hate to order just one little thing like that. Are they the kind of thing that you can use for other problems as well. I should be getting my PS3 with that type of coupler back eventualy and will be getting more PS2's and maby ps3's so Imight run into the same problem with them as well. I was wondering if there are other little things like that I should get and have on hand. I'm sure I can change them If I just know what they are and where they go, or at least where they go.:laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can just cut one of the wires, that will disable the coupler.

I don't know if RS carries the non-polarized capacitors, I don't really shop there. I order that kind of thing in bulk from Digikey or Mouser.

If you're getting a number of command equipped locomotives, perhaps it's time to consider one of the command systems, you'll get a lot more out of them.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can just cut one of the wires, that will disable the coupler.
> 
> I don't know if RS carries the non-polarized capacitors, I don't really shop there. I order that kind of thing in bulk from Digikey or Mouser.
> 
> If you're getting a number of command equipped locomotives, perhaps it's time to consider one of the command systems, you'll get a lot more out of them.


 I cut 1 of the wires today and that seemed to straightened it up so I imagine it has something to do with the anti-derailing thing. I'm going to try to get a couple of those capacitors and see if that fixes it. It will uncouple just about anyplace on the track though. 
Yes I probably will be getting a Command system at least by this coming Christmas. I don't even have any plans for it yet but I know I will eventualy want one and at this point it will probably be the MTH system with a TMCC base. I see them on Ebay everyday. 
I just hope the MTH system holds up better than their new trains do and now the dealer says the DCS systems are unavialable too. But as far as engines go I'm going to try to stay with later ps2 stuff and from watching ebay it looks like everybody else must be thinking the same thing if it's a ps2. 
As far as the Tmcc base unit goes, are they all the same or are there different variations of them with some having more features than others?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you're going to buy a TMCC base, I'd probably consider the new Legacy BASE-1L. It's going to be supported for a long time, and isn't that expensive.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If you're going to buy a TMCC base, I'd probably consider the new Legacy BASE-1L. It's going to be supported for a long time, and isn't that expensive.


 I just bought the new Cab-1L Base1-L p/n 6-37147 at the Edison New Jersey train show this weekend and haven't hooked it up yet. But from the way I read it and from the Lionel instructional videos I think I still need one of the Powermaster units to be able to run non-command engines don't I? Is there any one of those that are better or have more options than others. I am planning to use the MTH Z1000 transformer if that will work. I also have a new Lionel CW-80, and an older Lionel L/W 125 watt. I just figured the MTH brick would take up less space. I was under the impression from the guy at the trainshow that this new Legacy Command set would operate the older engines too and I guess it does if you have the Powermaster variable track voltage thing, am I right? He didn't mention it but if I knew it at the time I would have got one while I was there. I do kind of like the idea of the separate components even though they take up more space because if one thing goes bad you don't have to buy the whole system to get it going again. I know there is a 135 watt Powermaster and one that has a switch for 135-180 watts. The MTHZ1000 is everything I need and more at this point so wouldn't the 135 watt one be ok since my biggest transformer (the Lionel LW) is just 125 watt. Of course if I see the other one for a good price I'd probably get it anyway but I'm wondering about switches and features one has that another one doesn't. And again, these are just for running non-command variable track voltage engines aren't they?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you want to run conventional with the remote, you will need at least a PowerMaster. You need the Lionel 6-37146 Legacy Powermaster, as the old PowerMasters are not directly compatible with your new remote system.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If you want to run conventional with the remote, you will need at least a PowerMaster. You need the Lionel 6-37146 Legacy Powermaster, as the old PowerMasters are not directly compatible with your new remote system.


 Now I read somewhere that Lionel doesn't recomend using MTH's Z type transformers and even their own CW80 because of the sine wave issues. Of course they have a 180 Watt Powerhouse just for this system but nobody seems to have them yet. I see them advertised for like $75 which isn't bad but where can you get one or do I really need the thing at all. Most of their other adds about the system say a transformer that is A/C and puts out 20 volts or 18 minimum is fine but then they say otherwise somewhere else, it might have been info about the Legacy Powermaster where I read this which I don't have yet. I'd like to order them from the same place instead of paying shipping twice from 2 different places. I just hope there isn't a wait on this little Transformer from Lionel like there is with MTH's DCS system not being available.
We're going down to Winchester Friday to see Mario's train shop, he's got some pretty good prices from what I see on lots of stuff but he doesn't have the Powerhouse but I will get the Legacy Powermaster if he has it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you have a PowerMaster, you can use a plain brick. You can use something like a ZW or KW and an in-line fuse or circuit breaker between it and the load as well.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If you have a PowerMaster, you can use a plain brick. You can use something like a ZW or KW and an in-line fuse or circuit breaker between it and the load as well.


 Does the Legacy Powermaster come with any cables at all? I've seen some of the cables Lionel has and the one with the inline fuse buit in with it. I just wondered if they included anything at all with the Powermaster. Hopefully I can get the system running over the weekend and then think about upgrading an old style diesel. I've never even had a diesel before and this looks like it's gonna be fun 
It looks like there are a lot of different progressive steps with Railsounds from the little bit I've read so far but since I don't have the high end Legacy system, just the Legacy Command base1-L I imagine it probably cant access all the newest features anyway and I see the kits saying things like Railsounds 4 ect. What do you think the latest sounds or Command capabilities Legacy 1-L will communicate with to get an idea of what kind of kit to get for an upgrade on a Williams for example?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I doubt it comes with anything, as it's designed to have a PowerHouse plugged into it, and the other terminal on the package goes to track common.


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