# Lead in model trains?



## funchuck

Hi all, I became interested in this hobby because a local kid's museum had a train set on display and I thought it was really cool. The kids also loved it, so I thought this might be a great way to spend time with my kids (they're 3 and 5 years old). 

I go on Amazon and order a cheap Bachmann set ($65 for the Super Chief N scale train set), along with a few extra tracks (straight and curved ones). I set up the tracks in a dog bone shape and we had a lot of fun running it. We had a few extra tracks left over, and my 5 year old was even able to reconfigure the tracks by herself! It took her a long time, but she was so proud! 

But, I looked at the back of the box and saw the lead warning. The warning also specified that this product creates lead dust! So I decided to pack it back up and send it back to Amazon.

My question is, are there any lead-free model trains available? How do I find out if they have lead in them? The item description on Amazon doesn't mention lead in any of their trains.


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## DonR

Can't imagine what the warning label was all about. I suspect
it is to comply with California requirements that do not
take into consideration quantities or degree of danger.

You can find a lead weight in most locomotives. The electrical
connections are likely to be soldered. Some solder does have
lead in it. But lead dust? Where would it come from?

The main material is plastic for both
cars and locomotives. The track in most cases is Nickel Silver.

Any electric motor or other device will have the same type of wiring. So if you
fear that train, you should not overlook the electrical devices in
your home and vehicles. The same conditions apply.

Don


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## funchuck

Hi Don,

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate the insight.

As far as lead dust is concerned, I thought maybe the gearing, or the wheels, which contact the tracks, might be made from lead or a lead alloy. 

None of the electronic devices I own have any type of lead warning on it, but maybe the train set had a warning since I'm sure a lot of parents buy it for their kids. But I know a lot of fishing and hunting items have a lead warning on them too. 

When it comes to my kids, I don't want to take any chances. I wasn't sure if the lead was common in all trains, or just the cheap train that I bought. I am willing to pay more if it meant getting a lead free product. I have been reading and researching this, but can't find any more information.


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## sstlaure

Don't lick your trains and you should be fine. 

I see the lead warnings on ammo I buy as well as a result of CA labelling requirements. 

Who knew that a person could die of lead poisoning after being shot.


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## wingnut163

most RR cars, high or low priced are waited with lead. ALL electronic devices, TV, micro-wave,ovens,toasters, i could go on for ever, cars, batters in cars, so you see you are surrounded by it.

not the tracks. but the power pack is!

so it is up to you.


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## funchuck

Thanks for the replies... I'm very cautious when it comes to my kids, but my wife is x100. She had me shoot away and give away all my lead ammo when we had our first kid. I replaced it with non lead stuff, which I swear is not as good as the lead... and my ammo stash pretty much had to start at zero again.

Yes, I know we are surrounded by it. But, can anyone look at their boxes and see which brands have a lead warning, and which don't? Even if it contains lead, I know my wife will be better about it if the box doesn't have a lead warning. 

I should have taken a picture of the box. The lead warning is quite prominent on the back of the box, and makes it sound like highly toxic material. Then, it starts talking about how it huffs and puffs lead dust. I joked with my wife that we should just buy the kids a HazMat suit with respirators, but she didn't think it was so funny.


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## mnp13

There's a point where this kind of stuff gets over-the-top.

Why on earth did you have to get rid of your ammo? Was your new baby going to lick the bullets? Or were you planning to grind them? Makes no sense at all. It's like the overwhelming fear of asbestos... if you leave it alone (and it's not falling apart) then the danger is exactly ZERO. 

But anyway, you might give a call to the company and ask them directly. And if you want some trains that don't have those warnings on them, get some vintage stuff. Or if you want new-ish, get some from before the lead laws were written.


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## funchuck

Michelle: I know, I really regretted giving away all that ammo. But, I did give it away to my hunting buddies, and they really appreciated it. Actually, the reason I gave it away was because I shoot deer with it and eat the deer. My wife was afraid of contaminating the meat... although I always go for head shots and I don't eat anything around there. But, if it was hit in the body, I wouldn't want to waste the meat either. Plus, I believe in all that conserving nature stuff, and using non-lead ammo is better for that too.

I did try to register on Bachmann's "ask the Bach Man" forum, but haven't been able to.


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## mnp13

I don't know if you've ever processed your own deer, but you don't eat shot meat anyway. It's a bloody gross mass. We process all the meat for our dogs literally a few hundred pounds of venison a year and we throw away the shop meat even for them.


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## sjm9911

Years ago toys were made of 100 percent lead. I think ( and I just looked up the states on the cdc website, less then one percent of people tested have elevated lead), the numbers are skewed. As people who are likely to be tested have exposure issues. You are far more likely to consume lead through drinking water from old pipes. Even then people for years have had no issues.


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## funchuck

I would always pay someone to process the deer, I think they would cut around the part that was shot. I dunno, I guess I never really thought about processing my own meat because that's how everyone else does it too. 

sjm9911: Yeah, I remember as a kid, we did have lead toys. But I think they did have warnings on them. I remember my mom telling me which toys had lead in them and that I had to wash my hands after handling them. I'm 38 years old, so it has been a while since I was a kid too. Actually, from what I remember, most of the toys with lead came from Japan. I remember my friend's Voltron toy that was so awesome, but I always had to wash my hands. I probably didn't wash my hands everytime though... heh, maybe that's why I'm no Einstein! Yup, that's the reason. 

Anyways, I'm getting a bit off topic... I just wanted to know if any of the train packages don't have any lead warnings on them. Anybody know?


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## sjm9911

The only new set i have is from a few years ago, I'll look in the am. But I'm in nj, California law might be different for warnings. As for the toys, I'm 40, but I was thinking the old stuff my dad had on his Christmas layout. Pure lead figurines. They also had soldiers etc. They were kids growing up with this stuff and kids being kids I'm betting these toys were chewed on a bit.


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## sstlaure

Basically all of the newer stuff I have has that warning. So does just about everything else out there.

I REALLY wouldn't worry about it. I just got back from the gun range and blew through a couple hundred rounds. I'm sure I got more lead exposure in that hour than you would in a lifetime of playing with trains.

Have them wash their hands when they are done playing with the trains and they'll be just fine.


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## wingnut163

i just bought 9 cars ho ,,bachmann,,atlas,,and walthers. none have any warning.

and bought 2 n locos and 10 cars and they had no warning. one, a tank car the weight was loose and i had to take the tank apart (with the sellers help) and glue the lead weight it back in to its cradle.

im 72, workd with lead all the time in the navy,22y. and 40 y with the NYCTransit auth. lead is all over them trains. 

like most of the above said, you really have to eat it and not just a little, to have it get to you.

here is some thing to think on, your house older than 10 years? well the copper pipes were soldered with lead solder. now all new houses have to be soldered with lead free solder.


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## mnp13

funchuck said:


> I would always pay someone to process the deer, I think they would cut around the part that was shot. I dunno, I guess I never really thought about processing my own meat because that's how everyone else does it too.


They cut around it because the meat is pretty much destroyed, the act of lead passing through it does not contaminate it to any measurable degree. Think about all the bird hunters out there, they just pick out the shot and that's it. Over time? Yes, it can leach into things, but when you're talking about lead toxicity you're talking about eating paint chips (why would anyone do that???), inhaling lead dust, or water contamination. 

We don't process the deer that we eat, we get deer carcases from a processor that we then take home and package for our dogs. We feed raw, so it takes a big chunk out of our feeding bill.

This is my old man Riggs helping himself to the bins in the car









One night's processing









(Sorry the pictures are huge, I pulled them off my fb account.)


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## rrgrassi

We love to eat venison!! It's very good, and very lean.

Now about lead dust...if you saw or grind it, there is dust.

I cannot tell you how much lead I have handled...automotive wheel weights, fishing weights, etc. You can buy lead sheets at my LHS, as well as the double sided taped wheel weights (used on custom wheels). They cost more at the LHS though. I still use it to add weight to freight cars and locomotives.


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## mnp13

rrgrassi said:


> We love to eat venison!! It's very good, and very lean.


We love it too... now if a deer would just get in the way of my husband's gun we'd actually be able to eat some instead of the dogs getting it all!!!!


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## rrgrassi

You got that right! Before I got laid off from my IT job at a small MFG company, I would barter my IT skills for venison. That worked out well. Since I have never been hunting, I do not have the proper rifle, yet. I do have a .22 for plinking and a .45 for plinking and protection. With the ammo shortage, well no lead to shoot with.


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## dannyrandomstate

That warning is put on everything thanks to Cali. I always chuckle when I see that label that says "this product contains a substance known to the state of california to cause blah blah blah". I look at the label and say I'm glad I don't live there. This stuff is dangerous there!


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## Big Ed

You guys sort of took over his thread you know? :smokin:
Look at the poor Bambi. 

Just don't eat the trains. 
Sometimes I wonder how I ever grew up when I was a child, with all the bad stuff they found.

I wore no seatbelts when I was a kid, no kid car seats were around, lead paint was the norm. Ate peanuts too, now you can't even breath on a kid allergic to peanuts. No bicycle helmets, and you could ride all over on your bike without the fear of some nut grabbing you. 
Grownups smoked on me too! 
A time when kids got dirty, some of us even ate the dirt. 

Just don't eat the trains and you will be fine.
I like the ideal of wearing a full hazmat suit. :thumbsup:


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## mnp13

I have a bunch of prewar or maybe early postwar figures, would they be lead?


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## Big Ed

mnp13 said:


> I have a bunch of prewar or maybe early postwar figures, would they be lead?


Most likely, do you want to sell them to me so you don't die? 
And if they are lead figures most likely the paint on them are lead based too.


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## mnp13

My house was built 140 years ago. It's made o lead.


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## Big Ed

You need a full hazmat suit?


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## mnp13

Big Ed, I have to keep them. If we end up breeding, I'll give them to my kids for teething toys. ;-)


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## sstlaure

rrgrassi said:


> You got that right! Before I got laid off from my IT job at a small MFG company, I would barter my IT skills for venison. That worked out well. Since I have never been hunting, I do not have the proper rifle, yet. I do have a .22 for plinking and a .45 for plinking and protection. With the ammo shortage, well no lead to shoot with.


We have a 3 month bow/crossbow season in Michigan Oct-Dec. Ample time to stock up for the year. In my area I can take up to 7 deer a year (2 bucks/5 doe).

Sorry for the hi-jack.....


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## Big Ed

sstlaure said:


> We have a 3 month bow/crossbow season in Michigan Oct-Dec. Ample time to stock up for the year. In my area I can take up to 7 deer a year (2 bucks/5 doe).
> 
> Sorry for the hi-jack.....




Where the heck do you keep 7 deer? :dunno:
Unless your deer are all 50 lbs? 

Then you go fishing and stock a few hundred pounds of trout? 
I forgot, you have to save room for squirrels and possum?
Also wild turkeys? Ducks?
Maybe a few pigeons they are all over.
Canadian geese? 
They are more plentiful then the pigeons.

And Bear you gotta murder at least one bear a season, right?


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## sstlaure

big ed said:


> Where the heck do you keep 7 deer? :dunno:
> Unless your deer are all 50 lbs?
> 
> Then you go fishing and stock a few hundred pounds of trout?
> I forgot, you have to save room for squirrels and possum?
> Also wild turkeys? Ducks?
> Maybe a few pigeons they are all over.
> Canadian geese?
> They are more plentiful then the pigeons.
> 
> And Bear you gotta murder at least one bear a season, right?


I said I CAN take 7 - Not that I do take (7).

I want to take (2) this season. I've got a large freezer and also smoke, jerk and can to preserve.

I hunt turkey as well. 

I firmly believe one has more respect for what they eat when they have to kill and clean it themselves.

There is a place for all of God's creatures......right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.

Do you murder your cows that you eat Ed? I prefer wild game as it isn't pumped full of steroids, antibiotics, etc., lives a free life right up until I take it, and doesn't require any resources from anyone to raise it (fuel for tractors to harvest hay to feed the cows, etc.)

I've never understood people that look down upon hunters but who eat meat butchered commercially. (Am I reading you wrong here?)


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## mnp13

I met my (organic, pasture raised) veal cow... I even named him. Then we ate him.

There is nothing wrong with humane, ethical hunting for animals that are used to the fullest extent possible.


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## Big Ed

sstlaure said:


> I said I CAN take 7 - Not that I do take (7).
> 
> I want to take (2) this season. I've got a large freezer and also smoke, jerk and can to preserve.
> 
> I hunt turkey as well.
> 
> I firmly believe one has more respect for what they eat when they have to kill and clean it themselves.
> 
> There is a place for all of God's creatures......right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
> 
> Do you murder your cows that you eat Ed? I prefer wild game as it isn't pumped full of steroids, antibiotics, etc., lives a free life right up until I take it, and doesn't require any resources from anyone to raise it (fuel for tractors to harvest hay to feed the cows, etc.)
> 
> I've never understood people that look down upon hunters but who eat meat butchered commercially. (Am I reading you wrong here?)


Yes, I was only kidding about using the word murder. 
I knew it would get your goat.










How do you know that I am not a vegetarian?

But, I am a carnivore. And proud of it.:smokin:
There are not too many things I don't eat if you put them in front of me.
I may not go out and "murder" them anymore, but I will eat them. 

This weekend there is a bear hunt going on last year they took around 285 in the area that they are targeting. That area has around 3000 bears and they are populating fairly quick.
You should see all the protesters, this is the 4th year they had this hunt.
The same protesters would be out there protesting if someone got ate by a bear.
Which is bound to happen soon, the bears have gotten used to going through peoples garbage. And people have gotten used to them, some feed them like their pets and the bears are smart enough to remember where to go for food. Now towns are making homeowners get $500 dollar bear proof garbage cans the only problem is that the bears jump up and down on the middle of the can till they pop the lid off and the can is smashed to crap. A complete waste of money.

Now all counties in New Jersey have bears. Now take note NJ is the most populated state per square mile. Deer? WE HAVE TOO MANY, THEY OUGHT TO UP THE TAKE ON THEM! And like I said the Canadian geese (which are protected) out number the mosquitos here! 

I think the take of deer is about the same here in NJ, maybe more.

I love venison, my buddy makes jerky with a little hint of HOT in them, MMmmm good!.:smilie_daumenpos: He makes regular jerky too. He has a barn, one time there were 8 hanging around, along with a freezer filled with trout from the stream behind his house. No limits on the fish for him. None on the deer either.

Still, the picture of the Bambi sitting in a pile of guts, getting mauled by a dog in the back of a whatever it is, is sad. 
But a fact of life. :smokin:

Here is a Jersey city bear getting a meal.
He is a city slicker.


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## sstlaure

Bear is delicious. 

I'm a meatatarian.


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## funchuck

Hi again, I've been busy doing some research.

*Prop 65 Warning*

It seems on Amazon, that all Bachmann products have the prop 65 warning on them. I'm not concerned about that because that warning is on practically everything we buy. I also saw that all the other manufacturers (Kato, Lionel, Walther, Life Like) don't have the prop 65 warning.

*Lead Warning*

This is the warning that got me to start this thread. I did a lot of searching for this, including watching a bunch of unboxing videos on Youtube. So far, only 2 Bachmann trains are known to have this warning (the Super Chief starter set and the Durango starter set). No other manufacturer has this warning. I also got an email reply from Kato USA that none of their products contain lead. 

I'm not sure about this one since someone here mentioned that lead is used to weigh down the locomotives.

*Electricity Warning*

I know this one is silly, but every manufacturer has this warning on the box EXCEPT for Kato products. 

*Age Range*

I think the age range is important because the higher it is, the more likely it is to have some element of danger/risk. Lionel products have a minimum age of 8, while all others I saw were 14.

*My Conclusion*

Well, I think that Kato is interesting because they don't have any warnings on their box. That could mean:

a) They are a foreign company and aren't used to the legal system here?
b) They don't want to dissuade potential customers with all these warnings.
c) Or ????

Bachmann may be taking the opposite approach. Perhaps someone tried to sue them, so they went all out and put warnings on everything.

*What I actually did*

And... here is what I did. I saw on Amazon, that the Lionel Pennsylvania Flyer O Gauge starter set was on sale for $123... most places charged 200+, so I bought it. The cool thing is, in my area, Amazon has Sunday delivery, so I am getting it tomorrow!

Thank you everyone for all the input. 


Oh, and I am also an avid meat eater  Unfortunately, my in-laws are vegetarians and I'd be ok with that, except that they think they are superior to the meat eaters. First time I cooked for them, I didn't know it, so I cooked a nice big rib roast! Man, it came out perfect, nice and red inside and I thought I outdone myself! You should've seen their faces when I brought it out and plopped it in the middle of the dining table. It was so not funny back then, but now, it cracks me up just thinking about it


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## rrgrassi

All of the Bachmann Locos I worked with had steel plates for weights. That is the single powered truck ones. I do not remember what thier split frames are made from, but is in not soft metal like lead.

Oh, one more thing, "Vegetarian" translates to "One that hunts poorly" in native American speak.


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## shaygetz

I've been modeling for over 40 years and I credit the lead content for helping my grow a third hand to help me with all that model work I do that folks gawk at... :thumbsup:

Years ago there was a big effort to remove as much lead as possible in modeling kits and supllies, with Woodland Scenics and Fine Scale Miniatures leading the way. I'd be very surprised if there is any more than trace amounts in anything we use in the hobby today outside of locomotive weights.


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## Big Ed

funchuck said:


> Oh, and I am also an avid meat eater  Unfortunately, my in-laws are vegetarians and I'd be ok with that, except that they think they are superior to the meat eaters. First time I cooked for them, I didn't know it, so I cooked a nice big rib roast! Man, it came out perfect, nice and red inside and I thought I outdone myself! You should've seen their faces when I brought it out and plopped it in the middle of the dining table. It was so not funny back then, but now, it cracks me up just thinking about it


You should have picked it up and took a big bite out of it with your teeth while letting some of the juice trickle down your jaw. :laugh:

That reminds me of what my Bro in law did once. His wife my old (young) lady's sister was not a vegetarian but would not eat deer meat! Period! He cooked it up many ways and she wouldn't even stay in the house when he did, she would go out shopping or visit friends.
One Thanksgiving he made a venison lasagna and didn't tell anyone, as there were others in the family that swore against eating Bambi's too.
Well his wife came home as she was working after it was done and we all sat and ate, I sat right next to her and was amazed that she said it was the best lasagna he ever made. 
Well a couple of hours after we ate she and me were sitting talking when I asked her again what she thought of the lasagna and she said it was great.
I then told her it was made with deer meat. 
She got up and ran to the bathroom and puked! :laugh:

Needless to say my bro in law was in the dog house for a while. 
I told him I was sorry but I couldn't resist because of the way she kept talking about how great it was.  Everyone else that hated deer meat said it was great too.  But none of them puked it up.
He is living down near the everglades now, I guess he hunts for alligators or snakes now.
I wonder if she eats them I will have to ask. But even the mention of the deer lasagna makes her stomach roll. 

I think I get more wild food now that I don't hunt from friends who have too much. :smokin:


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## Gansett

A close friend of over 30 years was our GP. He tells me that I'm going to die of something and to get over it. That we are all in contact with substances each and every day that in concentrated form or long term exposure can easily cause our death.
"EVERYTHING IN MODERATION" is his battle cry.


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## dannyrandomstate

All those warnings are due to common sense being not so common anymore. It's a sad thing actually. Some folk have to be led by the hand every step in life. I say remove the warnings and let natural selection weed them out. It might take some time, but I think it's feasible.


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## mnp13

My little lead army.


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## jlassen

To be fair, there is no safe amount of exposure to lead, particularly amongst children. One of the leading explanations for the spike in the rate of violent crime in the mid to late 20th century now links those violent crime rates to the use leaded gasoline. Apparently, on a regional and chronological mapping level, you can see leaded gasoline usage and crime statistics follow each other all over. There was a Great article about it at Mother Jones, I think.


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## mnp13

I'd be interested in seeing a non-biased study on that (seriously) but Mother Jones is not where that can be found.


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## shaygetz

...and we will leave it at that. Closed....


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