# Steam and early diesel



## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

When I set my layout up I want to use 40's 50's era steam and early diesel. Can anyone tell me what the size of a regular freight loco would be in both those type loco's. ex. steam 0-6-6,
2-4-4-2?? and what size steam and diesel might be used in a rail yard.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

flyerrich said:


> When I set my layout up I want to use 40's 50's era steam and early diesel. Can anyone tell me what the size of a regular freight loco would be in both those type loco's. ex. steam 0-6-6,
> 2-4-4-2?? and what size steam and diesel might be used in a rail yard.



That would all depend on the RR name.
A lot ran a large variety of locomotives, what some used others wouldn't.


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## morrjr (Dec 20, 2012)

I'll address the yard locos.

For a rail yard, an 0-4-0, 0-6-0, or 0-8-0 steam engine would be appropriate. For diesel switchers, an ALCO S2, or EMD SW700/900 might be appropriate. I'm sure there are more diesel switchers that are appropriate, but I'll leave that to someone else to add to my list.


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

thanks morrjr,
That is the kind of info I was looking for. Now I just need some info on mainline cars. I read on the forum somewhere that the passenger cars had bigger drivers and usually "4" in front of the drivers.

I have to be honest my layout won't be very rigid in respect to a certain line and what they used. I am doing it for my enjoyment and my grandkids and they won't know the difference if I use Penn Central, CXS, B&O Norfolk etc. as long as we have fun. I really enjoy the forum. A lot of good info and I am sure their are a lot of rail fans here that take this very seriously in regards to what lines relate to a certain type of layout, scenery, business etc. It is an awesome hobby as I am finding out. Thanks


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

An RS-3 should fit the bill for your era.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Here's a good link to steam loco information. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/

General rule of thumb was passenger steamers had 4 wheel lead truck for stability and driver diameters of 79-84 inches. Typical passenger steamers in the era you're looking to model were 4-6-2 pacifics, 4-8-4 northerns, 4-6-4 hudsons and others. Typical freight locos would have been 2-8-4 berkshires, 2-8-2 mikados, 2-8-8-2's, 2-6-6-2's and others. You will have a great variety to choose from, depending on what you model. 

Diesels, the above selections are good, but add in early GP's as well, such as GP7's and 9's. 

Carl


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## morrjr (Dec 20, 2012)

Kwikster said:


> General rule of thumb was passenger steamers had 4 wheel lead truck for stability and driver diameters of 79-84 inches. Typical passenger steamers in the era you're looking to model were 4-6-2 pacifics, 4-8-4 northerns, 4-6-4 hudsons and others. Typical freight locos would have been 2-8-4 berkshires, 2-8-2 mikados, 2-8-8-2's, 2-6-6-2's and others. You will have a great variety to choose from, depending on what you model.
> 
> Diesels, the above selections are good, but add in early GP's as well, such as GP7's and 9's.
> 
> Carl


All great for that era, especially the GP7's and GP9's. Hundreds of GP7's and GP9's were manufactured - the C&O alone had 202 GP7's and 363 GP9's. You might want to add EMD F7's to the freight diesel mix - 2285 F7A's were manufactured between February 1949 and December 1953, and 1432 F7B's were manufactured in the same time period. For passenger diesels, an EMD E7 or E8 would be appropriate: E7's were manufactured from 1945 and 1949, and E8's from 1949 to 1954. An ALCO FA2 would also be appropriate for freight, and a PA2 for passenger service.

My locomotives and rolling stock are mostly late forties to late sixties B&O, C&O, and Pere Marquette (merged with C&O in 1947). I run two GP9's, an SD9, an FA2 A/B set, an ALCO S2, two 2-8-4's, a 2-6-6-2, a 2-8-8-4, a 4-6-2, and two E7's. I plan to eventually acquire an F7 A/B set.


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

all great info, thanks guys


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

Forgive me if someone already mentioned the NW2 for a Diesel switcher. :thumbsup:


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok thanks


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## wcsjr1 (Dec 10, 2012)

A friend passed this on the other day. It might be helpful...... Well not so much if I can't attach the file. It is the incorrect format. Google this and perhaps it will get you there.

List of GM-EMD locomotives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.htm:


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Just be aware that if you chose to run GP9's, the time frame can't be before 1954....that's when they started making the GP9.

GP7 production started in 1949,


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

flyerrich said:


> I have to be honest my layout won't be very rigid in respect to a certain line and what they used. I am doing it for my enjoyment and my grandkids and they won't know the difference if I use Penn Central, CXS, B&O Norfolk etc.* as long as we have fun*. I really enjoy the forum. A lot of good info and I am sure their are a lot of rail fans here that take this very seriously in regards to what lines relate to a certain type of layout, scenery, business etc. It is an awesome hobby as I am finding out. Thanks


The bolded comment is the most important. Run what you like, and enjoy it after all it is YOUR railroad. I run postwar Lionel, and I do run everything I own from time to time. No shelf queens here, I buy what I like and run what I buy. Having grandkids interested is a big plus in my book. Hope you enjoy your time with them. We're always here to help, so ask any questions you have. 

Carl


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## FRED On Board (Jan 2, 2014)

Flyerrich, (et al)...

Taking a liberty to post, I was born in Buffalo in 1945 and lived in Amherst except for a short time in Orchard Park until 1978 when upon I moved to Texas...It was in the early to mid-1950's that I became a railfan and was interested in the PRR and the Eirie-Lackawanna in those years that I lived in Western New York...I know Cheektowaga well, and perhaps we were community neighbors in that period.

I wonder if you had considered modeling the Erie or the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western railroads of that period you have interest in...These two railroads merged in the late 1950's or early 1960's to become the Erie-Lackawanna Railroad...The history of the three entities is such that each was important to Western New York for passenger and freight service in the transition period of the 1940's, 50's and early 60's.

As far as diesel liveries, those mentioned by others preceding my post are also ones to consider for the Erie and the DLW as well as the combined roster of the E-L as a result of the merger. Alco S2, RS and EMD SW switchers were common as well as early EMD "Geeps" such as the GP7 and GP9 previously mentioned...Also a considerable number of EMD F-units including the early FT, F3 and F7A and B units...I don't think there were many EMD E-units but my guess and faint recollection is that there were a few that made the journey from eastern New York State westward to and beyond Buffalo for passenger service.

I never modeled any of the three roads I mention above in earlier times, having always been "attached" to the mighty PRR as this was my very first introduction to model RR by virtue of an American Flyer S-gauge K4 Heavy Pacific 4-6-2 and freight cars as a youngster, about Kindergarten age...Now, having lived for half of my life in Texas, the interest in prototype and modeling has shifted to what you see as my signature below.

Greatly respecting your attitude about your grandchildren and the "fun" element of our hobby, I wish you good luck with your layout and the enjoyment that awaits you and your youngsters.

Bruce /FRED On Board
ATSF, BN, SP, UP


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks for the comments Fred. I will take this
into consideration when I build my layout.


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## golfermd (Apr 19, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> Just be aware that if you chose to run GP9's, the time frame can't be before 1954....that's when they started making the GP9. GP7 production started in 1949,


That's the great thing about a model railroad, you can put on it whatever you want.


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## FRED On Board (Jan 2, 2014)

wcsjr1 said:


> A friend passed this on the other day. It might be helpful...... Well not so much if I can't attach the file. It is the incorrect format. Google this and perhaps it will get you there.
> 
> List of GM-EMD locomotives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.htm:


Indeed, the wiki list is an informative listing of EMD locomotives, years of U.S. production and for each a clickable link to each model and what roads purchased them for their diesel livery.

I'm not a complete purist or so-called "rivet counter" but as an uninformed railfan and modeler, I made good use of the wiki information to learn about the EMD locomotives that ran the rails with the reporting marks of those roads that were of historical significance in the pre-merger years and then afterwards for the four roads I concentrate on for my hobby and my HO layout.

Here is the link that is missing from the posting by Member wcsjr1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM-EMD_locomotives

As an example, from the link above and the clickable link to each of the EMD models, taken from the complete list, this is the listing of diesel power of interest to me that I assembled in condensed form for fifty years of prototypical operations from the late 1940's through approximately the year 2000: EMD Model, U.S Production Start Year and Month - U.S. Production End Year and Month (month in each case, if known). followed by the Roads that purchased that production.

E7A 194502-194904
E7B 194503-194807
/ CB&Q; CNW; GN; MP; MR; SLSF; SP; UP

E8A 194808-195401
E8B 194912-195401
/ ATSF; CB&Q; CNW; MKT; MP; SSW; UP

E9A 195404-196401
E9B
/ CB&Q; MR; SP; UP

FTA 193911-194511
FTB
/ ATSF; CNW; CB&Q; DRGW; GN; MP; NP; SSW; WP

FP45 1967XX-1968XX
/ ATSF, MILW 

F7A 194902-195312
F7B 
/ ATSF; CB&Q; CNW; DRGW; GN; MR; MKT; MP; NP; SLSF; SP; SSW; UP; WP

F9A 195302-196005
F9B
/ ATSF; CNW; DRGW; GN; MR; NP; SLSF

GP7 194910-195405
/ ATSF; CNW; CB&Q; DRGW; GN; MP; NP; SLSF; SSW; UP; WP

GP9 195401-195912(196308)
/ ATSF; CB&Q; CNW; DRGW; GN; NP; SP; SSW; UP; WP

GP20 195911-196204
/ATSF; CB&Q; CNW; GN; SP; SSW; UP; WP

GP35 196307-196512
/ ATSF; CB&Q; CNW; DRGW; GN; MP; MR; SLSF; SP; SSW; UP; WP

GP38-2 197201-198607
/ BN; CNW; SP; SLSF; UP

GP40-2 197204-198612
/ DRGW; SLSF; SSW; SP; WP

GP50 1980XX-1985XX
/ ATSF; BN; CNW; MP; SLSF; UP

GP60 1885XX-1994-XX
/ ATSF; BN; DRGW; SP; SSW; UP

SD40-2 197201-1984(1989XX)
/ ATSF; BN; CNW; MR; MKT; MP; SLSF; UP

SD40T-2 197406-198007
/ DRGW; SSW; SP

SD45 196512-197112
/ ATSF; GN; PN; SP; UP

SD45T-2 197202-197506
/ SP; SSW, UP

SW7 194910-195101
/ CB&Q; GN; MP, MR; NP; SFSL; SSW; UP

SW1200 195401-196605
/ ATSF; CB&Q; CNW; DRGW; GN; MP; MKT; MR; NP; SP; SSW

SW1500 196606-197401
/ BN; GN; MKT; MP; SLSF; SP; WP 


---------------------------------

Bruce /FRED On Board
ATSF, BN, SP, UP


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## morrjr (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice list of EMD locos, but all the railroads listed are mid-western and western railroads. The list conspicuously leaves out eastern railroads, which had many of the locos listed.


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## FRED On Board (Jan 2, 2014)

morrjr said:


> Nice list of EMD locos, but all the railroads listed are mid-western and western railroads. The list conspicuously leaves out eastern railroads, which had many of the locos listed.


You're quite right...Only the railroads that I have interest in as Class 1 roads that were acquired or merged with the ATSF, the BN, the SP, and the UP in the 50 year period of roughly 1950 to 2000 appear for each locomotive listed...Indeed, many more EMD diesels can be found on the rosters of all railroads in North America, including the roads that appear on the list...I was (am) only concerned with those roads that are in the listing of EMD motive power that I assembled and posted.

When looking at the wiki list for any of the EMD locos produced in the United States and Canada, you will see the list of roads for the entire U.S. and Canada...So anyone who wishes to verify whether or not a particular EMD loco was in operation within a particular period of time on a given road, can get reasonably reliable confirmation of same.

BTW, a listing of GE diesel locomotives and their production history with links to a particular model and the roads that purchased it is also available via another wiki article pertaining to General Electric...And there may be articles and lists for other diesel locomotive manufacturers, as wel. 

I hope this additional post brings some clarity to what I had intended to be as an example of the listing's application to help us as modelers get a better understanding of the motive power for our chosen prototypical interests.

Bruce /FRED On Board
ATSF, BN, SP, UP


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

That is one very helpful list. Thanks for posting. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Magic


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

golfermd said:


> That's the great thing about a model railroad, you can put on it whatever you want.


True....unless you want to do it with a least a little attention as to the time frame.....wouldn't want this hobby to turn into science-fiction now, would we?


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## FRED On Board (Jan 2, 2014)

Begging the indulgence of my fellow Members, as straying somewhat, I post a personal reflection:



Old_Hobo said:


> True....unless you want to do it with a least a little attention as to the time frame.....wouldn't want this hobby to turn into science-fiction now, would we?


Yes, the hobby is "anyone's hobby" and the difference between running a "toy train" layout and a "model train" layout is a combination of the objectively "real" and the subjectively "fun" aspects of the experience for EACH OF US.

My first layout, built by my father when I was a 5 or 6 year old, was an S-gauge American Flyer "pike" with some pretty good "proto" aspects for the post WW2 steam era...A PRR Heavy Pacific and freight car consist (admittedly a "grey area" of real PRR operations), but with attributes such as remote conrol turn-outs and synchonized block signals, and scale telegraph-telephone poles with dark brown thread taken from my mom's sewing kit strung along the large race-track shaped mainline...I can imagine his thoughts when he first saw the greatly oversize rubber characters of Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Goofey put here and there by me...Science fiction, perhaps! 

Bruce /FRED On Board
ATSF, BN, SP, UP


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## morrjr (Dec 20, 2012)

Old_Hobo said:


> True....unless you want to do it with a least a little attention as to the time frame.....wouldn't want this hobby to turn into science-fiction now, would we?


I'm not a rivet counter, but I research prospective locomotive purchases carefully to see if the locomotive is appropriate for the railroads and era I model. Similarly, when I'm looking for new rolling stock I look for build dates and overhaul dates to ensure that they fall into correct time period.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*1940 to 1950 trains*

Hi,all.. I have very large book that was published in the year 2000 called a century of locomotives and trains. It covers the period from 1900 to the year 2000.Has over 200 full color photos of trains and engines in 9 year increments with comments.This is for North America. It should be in your local library. I`ve found it to be a very helpful book.
It was published by SMITHMARK publishers out of New York,NY. Thought this might help.It is copyrighted material.

Have a good evening and weekend. cheers,sanepilot


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