# Lionel 180W Powerhouse



## MiamiMikePA (Jul 23, 2014)

Hey Guys,

So after reading into as much as I could, chatting with my local shop, chatting on here w/ GRJ, and the fact that the #990 Legacy Command is now available I've decided to scrap going with an MTH Z-4000 as I originally planned and am going to go with the Legacy Command and 180W Powerhouses. I am going to start by building a simple O-60 oval layout approx 6' x 12' with Lionel FasTrack. I'm assuming a single 180W Powerhouse will be enough to run just a single train with no accessories to start...is that a fair assumption? I know if I add a ton of stuff on I will eventually need more, but to start I'm looking to go very simple. 

All I've done up to this point is attach a CW-80 transformer to a terminal section to run my Harry Potter RTR set. I've looked high and low on how these 180W Powerhouses hook up to track and can't seem to find anything. Do the hook up simply to a terminal track as the transformer I have does? Not really sure where to start here or even the right questions to ask. I'm looking to purchase the track soon and am trying to figure out if I need terminal sections? If so how many...that kind of stuff.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Mike


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## leszek (Dec 28, 2013)

I run 3 trains and multiple accessories with a 180W powerhouse. You probably will need a TMCC lock-on to connect the powerhouse to fastrack. That's what I'm doing.

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-34120&CategoryID=40


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One PH180 is plenty for a couple of trains.

I do NOT recommend the TMCC Direct Lockon. For one, the breaker on the PH180 is a very fast electronic breaker, so the Lockon protection is really redundant. The main reason is that the TMCC Direct Lockon is prone to false triggering, I have a number of locomotives that trip it as they roll by the track connection for no reason. Finally, the TMCC Direct Lockon is 100% incompatible with DCS, so if you ever expand to MTH command, you'd have to lose it anyway.


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## MiamiMikePA (Jul 23, 2014)

So it sounds like 1 will be more than enough for what I'm looking to do initially.

Is that the only way to connect the 180W Powerhouses? If the layout expands and I eventually run more than one, do you need one of those for each powerhouse? Also, if I'm running 2 separate tracks off of 1 powerhouse how do you get power to the 2nd track?

GRJ, based on what you are saying how else can you connect the powerhouse?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I just use a Molex connector cable to connect the PH180's to tracks. You just parallel the tracks if you only have one power source.


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## MiamiMikePA (Jul 23, 2014)

This is probably a really stupid question, but keep in mind I have no idea what I'm doing lol, what do the molex connector plug into on the track? Is there a video or anything (pics) on net showing how this is done? Keep in mind I'll be using Fastrack, not sure if this changes anything.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

MiamiMikePA:

Let's get back to basics. I come from MTH DCS but I am told Lionel's digital control system works similarly.

The Powerhouse is nothing more than a transformer. It puts out 18 volts AC all the time. If you just stick it on the track any train on the track will move at full throttle, full speed and be uncontrolled. The digital control system is the control element. It communicates with the engines and the engines interpret the commands and run at the speed the controller tells it to. To accomplish this the track is wired directly to the Powerhouse and all the engines must have a digital capability. But there are ways to control older non digital engines. But I am not familiar with them. You need to buy a book that covers the system you are interested in.

I prefer the MTH DCS for several reason.

First it is simple to program new engines, switches, or accessories with MTH DCS. The controls are alpha name oriented and not alpha-numeric encrypted names. It allow easy control of switches and accessories. There are modes that allow Lionel equipped digital control system engines to run on the MTH DCS layout as well as straight AC (conventional) engines. Perhaps gunrunnerjohn can explain how Lionel's various systems work in this regard for comparison. I will add I do not like MTH RealTrax or their RealTrax switches. FastTrack is supposedly better. RealTrax is definitely BAD (don't ask how I know that!).

As for the power required to run trains, the 180 watt Powerhouse is more than enough for a normal home layout. My DCS uses two MTH Power Bricks (MTH equivalent of the Lionel Powerhouse) in the smaller 100 watt size. One runs just the trains while the other runs switches, lighting, and operating accessories. I have run two 2 motor diesels and a large RailKing Mountain Steam engine all at once no problem. In fact, the capacity of the 100 watt power brick is 5.5 amps and even with all those engines running and 15 pieces of rolling stock being pulled the load was less than 4.5 amps. In one test I even added a switcher engine and did not exceed the 100 watt capacity of the MTH power brick.

Get educated before you buy anything. For DCS there is the "DCS Companion" book. There is more than likely a similar book for the Lionel systems but there have been several so make sure the book covers the one you are interested in. 

You can not go wrong with the 180 watt Powerhouse. Just don't use it until you have the rest of the control system in place. Until recently these power sources were hard to find but Lionel recently re-stocked on them. Who knows how long they will last? They have a much superior circuit breaker than the 100 watt MTH power brick. The MTH unit's breaker is useless and you have to put a fast acting fuse or circuit breaker in the circuit to protect the DCS system.

Hope this helps.

LDBennett


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## MiamiMikePA (Jul 23, 2014)

Lynn,

Thanks so much for all of the info. Definitely have a better understanding of how the Powerhouse actually functions. I think the part that I'm still confused on is the actual wiring. How does the Powerhouse actually connect and get power to the track? Does it simply connect to a terminal piece as my CW-80 transformer does? Do I need to get power to numerous parts of the track to have constant power? How do I get power from the Powerhouse to 2 separate tracks?

Also, I have the Lionel Track & Power catalog and it seems as though I need another piece called a Legacy Powermaster. What exactly does this do and why is it needed?

Never thought this stuff would be so complex! lol Thanks again for everybody who has taken the time to help me out!!!

Also, figured I should add this. I am going with the Lionel Legacy Command instead of MTH DCS because pretty much everything I am going to buy will be Lionel. I have a customer who is a large Lionel dealer who I go through for everything.


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## Lynn D Bennett (Jul 27, 2013)

Again, I am a MTH DCS guy. gunrunnerjohn is the expert on Lionel digital controls.

With digital controls the track gets wired directly to the Powerhouse. You use a terminal block at the Powerhouse and run separate pairs of wires (keeping the colors matched) to lockons all over the layout. There should be a lockon with its dedicated pair of wires for every 12 feet of track (or close to that). You can wire more than one loop from the same Powerhouse. This is called "STAR" wiring as all the points are the lockons and the center of the star is the powerhouse. The wires should each be 18 gauge (don't compromise on this and don't daisy chain wire them). MTH lockons are illuminated by track power so if you need to conserve power (??) then use lockons that are not illuminated. My track uses the illuminated lockons and I prefer their indication of when power is on the track. They apparently don't use to much power for my situation if I can run four engine simultaneously.

I understand about picking Lionel. If I had the same arrangement as you I'd be using Lionel too. I spent some time analyzing my wants and what would work for me and MTH won. I did not factor in the crappy RealTrax and wish I had gone with FastTrax as gunrunnerjohn had suggested at the time....Live and learn!

LDBennett


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## jwse30 (Jun 30, 2012)

The Powerhouses (both the 135w and the 180w) have a Molex connector on them at the end of the 18volt wiring. The connector Gunrunnerjohn was talking about is the male connector that that would plug into so you won't have to cut the connector off your brand new Powerhouse. Lionel sells them with a 6" lead already attached (I think they are around $15 for three different configurations). For most people that will be the easiest way to get the connector.

Once you have the connector plugged into the connector on the Powerhouse, you can either hook the wires directly to your track (if your layout is pretty small) or hook them up to a terminal block. Then hook additional wiring from the terminal block to various points on your layout as needed. 

All this is assuming that you will be running only TMCC or Legacy engines. If you are going to run conventional (transformer) controlled engines, you will also need to include either a Powermaster or a TPC between the track and the transformer. You mentioned the Harry Potter set, so I assume this is the route you will need to take. Here's a video that shows how to hook it all up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEVHZLeJdzQ


I am not making a very good case for how easy it is to hook all this stuff up, I know. For me it is far easier to do than to try to explain how to do it. 

J White


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