# New guy with questions. (pics)



## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

Okay so I'm new to the forum and have some questions//want to show off my gear.

First a little bit about me, I'm 19 I live in Texas, I'm into my 1979 Corvette, hunting and trains. 

I've been collecting since I was about 12. This is what I have:
































































I just currently purchased this offline for like $70. My dad and I got The Texas Special and one transformer to work (I have two). What all is this stuff worth? (I don't know much about prewar stuff) What is the Scout Steam Engine worth and is it even worth repairing?









































































Another question, some of my track is clearly marked Lionel while some isn't marked at all.. Who could have made this track? Until I started exploring this forum I only knew about Lionel and American Flyer.. Is there a top company? What are the other major model train companies and what are the advantages and disadvantages to them..










Which begs the question, why do so many people like postwar stuff better than the new stuff? Is it just because they grew up with it or it is easier to tinker with or looks cooler or a combination??

Why do so many people not use fasttrack? Is it just a cost issue or do most people not like how it looks?

I know O27 has a 27 inch curve and allows for smaller circles, is that the only difference between O and O27? Is the scaling any differnt at all? (I know some engines that run on O will not run on O27 but that is it.)

My layout 




























Thanks for everything!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sentinal,

Welcome to the forum! Nice Lionel collection for someone your age.

Your best source to research how much things are worth is likely ebay ... watch for a few weeks for certain items of interest. Take a look at "completed items", too, to get a market-value sold (and sometimes not sold) price range.

In general, all Lionel trains can run on true 0 (or O) track. 027 (or O27) is the same gauge (rail to rail distance), though made from a thinner, cheaper, lower-height tubular metal extrustion. Smaller Lionel locos and cars will run fine on 027, but larger locos and cars will have a tough time navigating the tight turn smoothly. In general, you cannot easily connect 027 to 0 becuase of the profile height difference. This link below shows some nice comparison photos:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5835

Fastrack is has a more realistic look (in some people's opinion), snaps together easily, and is great for layouts that are put together and taken apart frequently (like a 'round the Christmas tree setup).

That black transformer of your has only 25W output ... small by any standard. Not really much power to run a larger loco with any accessories. I'd recommend 80W minimum or higher for any growing-in-size layout.

In terms of "is it worth fixing the Scout", I'd ask "What's it worth to you?" ... sentimentally, amount of t.l.c. time to invest, etc. The steam chest has some cosmetic issues, but that could be a quick local repaint. Missing some front/rear trucks? Parts are likely readily available.

The "big guys" in O were Lionel (of course), but also Ives (bought out by Lionel in the late 1920's), Marx (perhaps mfr of your "odd track), and some early American Flyer ... though AF is largely know for its smaller S-scale trains. Lionel, MTH and some others make high-quality O stuff today, too.

I'm personally drawn to the older Lionel (pre- and post-war) for a few reasons: they were made to last, and with a little t.l.c. and fixing, I can usually get 'em up and running again; I like "hunting" for inexpensive fixer-uppers (though good-condition older Lionel can be rather expensive); I enjoy the fixing up work ... turning an old junker into something respectable again; etc.

Hope that helps,

TJ


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

Personally, I like the prewar stuff...no plastics. I like the modern stuff just fine but the all-metal prewar stuff is pretty neat.


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## burlington77 (Sep 28, 2009)

To understand the difference, pick up that GN 198 loco in your first picture. Then pick up a postwar GP7 in the other hand. You'll instantly notice the difference. Postwar locos are sturdy, heavy, and more metal. The 198 is nice looking, but the postwar stuff is built like a tank. If I threw my 198 at the window, I'd have to replace the loco. If I threw my postwar 2328 at it, I'd have to replace the window.

That Texas Special is postwar. It's a nice loco, but one of the simpler ones. The GP7 and GP9 are bigger and a bit tougher, as are the F3s. If you want to get familiar with things go to postwarlionel.com or tandem-associates and look around. I'll second the idea of looking at ebay to get price ideas, but also keep in mind that it can vary from place to place if you want to purchase at auctions or train shows. I'm in rural Missouri, and the old guys will bid each other to death at the local auctions on this stuff, even though it's cheaper online.

I'd fix the scout only if it can be done cheap. 

By the way, I got a good laugh from the disinterested girlfriend in the background. Classic. At least she'll be seen in the same room as your trains.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You most certainly want to check multiple places, and also multiple sales on eBay. I've bought stuff for 1/3 the price it's going for in other auctions, and since they were all NIB, they were exactly the same!


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

I agree I usually don't like to look on ebay I prefer local sites, what are some other good auctions sites I can look at? 

How much do you think it will take to repair the scout? I want it just because I like it, but I honestly have no idea what is wrong with it.. How can I diagnose the engine's problems? If the cost is extreme I'll just sit back and let it sit for awhile.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

What are the specific symptoms / problems with the Scout? You could start by taking the shell off, making sure it's cleaned and lubed OK, and see if there's any signs of life with it on a track.

TJ


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

sentinal77 said:


> I agree I usually don't like to look on ebay I prefer local sites, what are some other good auctions sites I can look at?
> 
> How much do you think it will take to repair the scout? I want it just because I like it, but I honestly have no idea what is wrong with it.. How can I diagnose the engine's problems? If the cost is extreme I'll just sit back and let it sit for awhile.


If I lived near you I would fix the engine for you. I could probably get it up and running for $1-2 of parts if not free... (I fix all my neighbors Lionel trains)... Anyways, A shop might charge you $20-$50 to fix it. I would suggest taking it apart and experiment with it. Its a very simple engine. The more experience with playing/taking them apart, the more your skills will grow and the more enjoyment you'll get out of this hobby. 

PW - Jason


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Simply put, there are many variations to the hobby. Books have been written on it. All you have to do is pick one ,two or whatever and enjoy it.


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

Taking apart the Texas Special was a lot easier.. For the Scout the only thing that looks to be holding the motor in in a rod that runs through the engine right to left. One side is round and one side has spokes. Is this the key? Do I tap it out toward the spoke side?

Thanks!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You unscrew the rod if it's like my scout, look at the other end.  You will also have to remove a screw to drop the trunks to allow the motor to come out.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I have a 233 Scout, which is a bit different from yours. However, on that one, the rod has a knurled right side end which is friction-fit into the loco shell. I remove the rod easily by tapping its LEFT end with a nail set to gently drive the rod out of the RIGHT side of the loco.

(I think some Scouts have screw-in rods, but others -- like the 233 and perhaps yours -- have the friction-fit rods.)

Hope that helps,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I know some Scouts have the screw-in rod. 

I believe you also have to remove the front trucks, or maybe the rear, to actually get the engine out in mine.


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

I have never worked on a scout engine, but all the steam engines I've worked on needed a wheel puller. (Let me tell you this, it's like a 100% guarantee that you will break your first wheel. (When first beginning on a puller)). 

PW - Jason


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I removed the Scout wheels without a wheel puller, and I even got them back on again.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

There is very little to service in the motor. A little cleaning and oil.

motor thread

The motor support rod is common for steam engines . The end is serrated I believe.


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

I've disconnected the shell from the motor unit. Which wheel should I pull first and how do you pull them.. 

Thanks!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Why pull the wheels?

I would clean the armature plate from the Brush access plate. Both have to come off to get inside. 
TO do that use a puller, a modified battery terminal puller or use some stiff steel and fork it under the wheel next to the frame. Suspend the motor on the steel with a vise and tap the axle out from the top. Metal banding works if you can find scrap. The wider the better.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hold on, guys ...

I suggest Sentinal posts a pic or two of the motor (from both sides) so we can see what type of Scout motor setup this is ... i.e., tradition metal cheek motor (like my postwar 249), or plastic motor with internal dual-drum e-unit, like my 233.

Unless you're already a step ahead here on this, T-Man ...

Edit/Added ... 

If it's a plastic / dual-drum internal e-unit motor, I think he can remove the drum/brush plate cover, remove the drums and brushes, and then clean the armature face via Q-tips and GooGone poked through the brush holes. No need to "remove a brush access plate with a wheel puller", right ???

Straighten me out, T-Man ...

TJ


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

Here is the engine.



















I noticed some damage on the shell.. Is this 1062 mortally wounded?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

not if it was t mans he would epoxy that up and make it better then when it was new.:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

JB Weld is your friend, piece of cake to fix the stripped out screw. That's a typical Scout motor, looks exactly like the one I have.

Those two nuts remove the E-Unit wheels and also expose the armature of the motor. There are instructions in the Greenberg book, or we can lead you through putting it back together.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sentinal,

That's the plastic-type Scout motor with a dual-drum internal e-unit. Here's a link to several service sheets for that motor ... you can click/open each page on the link as an individual pdf, but unfortunately, you likely won't be able to print them easily.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/1001.htm

(Hey, guys ... the Olsen's library is back up and running!!!!!)

The first 3 pages are key. They'll show you how to remove the cover plate of the brush and e-unit drum housing, and how to disassemble and reassemble the parts inside there. Once opened up, you should use GooGone and Q-tips to clean the brass contact springs, the brass edges of each drum disc, and the brush springs and brush cylinders, and the copper face of the armature face (or commutator, as I think its called). To clean the latter, you can poke a GooGone q-tip through each of the brush holes, and then slowly turn the loco wheels to rotate the armature.

Follow the manual to reassemble ... it'll tell you which disc goes on which side, how to orient them towards each other, and how to mount the contact springs.

Apply a light drop of oil to all moving parts ... ServoGuy Bruce here on the forum has recommended using 5W-20 motor oil. A few drops on the wick will help to lubricate the internals of the e-unit drum area, too.

Use the GooGone to clean the gears and the pickup plates on the bottom of the motor, and the axle bearings, if you can reach them at all. Pipe cleaners are helpful, too. Again, a drop or two of oil. (Some guys use lithium grease on the gears, though Bruce has converted me over to the 5W-20.)

This motor has a 2-position e-unit: fwd, reverse, fwd, reverse. The toggle on top of the motor engages the e-unit, or disengages it, leaving the motor direction it in its last setting.

Good advice on the JBWeld, above ... you should be able to build up that broken screw hole area. Let dry, then redrill (and perhaps retap) as needed.

Good luck! Keep us posted,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It is a 1062. A two position auto reversing with a lock. The one John can't get to work. The Olsen site is out still.
To Fix the screw, I grind out the remnants use some tape and fill with epoxy 4 minute stuff is fine. Just ask for any more pictures.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Olson site it back. 

Yep, that's the engine I have, and it's still about 70% whether it'll reverse. Everything is free and clean, don't know what it's problem is.


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm still having trouble getting the motor apart. I can't seem to get the wheels to come off. The website said to drive them out, which I assume means with a nailset.. That isn't working very well, I can't get the motor very secure on the vice because I'm afraid of cracking the plastic. T-man I know you had another idea but I'm not quite sure what you meant..

Thanks!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sentinal,

Why are you trying to remove the wheels? What are the specific symptoms with the motor? Have you cleaned the e-unit drums, contact springs, brushes, and armature face all FIRST, before you venture to removing the wheels?

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Removing the wheels is the last resort.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The vise is to support the wheel. The vise will break the plastic.I hope you know what your doing.


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

After reading through your posts I figured out what yall were talking about. Perhaps I just don't understand the train vernacular just yet. The copper plate underneath was pretty nasty, I cleaned it off just in time to notice one of the spokes off the gear is broken and the brush won't come out, where can I get one?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Spray with WD -40. Tap from the back and sides. Hope it falls out. Maybe use a sharp object and try to spin it without ruining it.
It will work if you can get it out but you can't depend to turn . So lock it forward.

These are so inexpensive they do not sell parts. I would not expect them to, but you can check. Whole junk motors can be had for 5 bucks at train shows.

Be sure to clean the inside bores.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you've identified your problem! 

You can buy those parts pretty cheaply, so you should be able to return this beast to service.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

John about your engine. After looking at the diagram of the engines I had two ideas. 

Does your engine have the bearing on both ends?

Does the engine have the bar to advance the wheel gears?


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

When I tried to pull the brush out with my fingernails it started to chip. ( you can tell in the photos) Do you figure a sharp object would ruin it just the same?

Is the gear that is missing a tooth need to be replaced as well or can it run missing one? 

Gunnerjohn, you said parts like this are avaliable, where?
I also need front and rear trucks and whatever braces and brackets hold them in place..


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Use a penetrating oil and tap.
It will work but not totally.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sentinal,

You finally figured out what we were talking about, huh?!?  It takes a little bit of hands-on fiddling.

No, the broken gear drum likely won't let the loco run in normal "reversing" mode ... as the loco goes through power up/down cycles (via the transformer throttle), the drum with rotate to a point where its missing tooth would normal engage with the opposing gear. At that point, it'll fail to turn further.

However, as a cheat, you can position the gear with its broken tooth away from the other gear, and then turn the lever on the top of the motor to disengage the e-unit. 
This will allow the loco to run in only one direction (if not forward, then flip the lever back, and cycle through just one throttle-down), and keep the gears in their as-installed position.

You can try Jeff Kane at the Train Tender www.ttender.com to see if he has a new gear drum available. New brushes, too. Make sure you ask for the point-tooth gear.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have written about the Scout in length. With e bay pricing it will cost the same as the engine. Your brush holders are 6 shipped. The front wheel was 7.50 but you can get the plate too if you look. You want the bracket with no cross guides. You have the rear drawbar so yours had no rear wheels. Of course you can get them. If you like that style look for a 2034. A cast shell and better AC motor. The 1130 is the same but with a plastic shell.

6.50 for the 1120-6 rear truck
brush 246-245
spring 246-212


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Of course, if he posts in our sale forum, I'd probably make him a real good deal on a non-working one, but it has the E-unit stuff intact.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> John about your engine. After looking at the diagram of the engines I had two ideas.
> 
> Does your engine have the bearing on both ends?
> 
> Does the engine have the bar to advance the wheel gears?


Mine has all the parts intact and seemingly moving freely. Contacts are like new, and everything is in the correct position. For some reason, it just doesn't reliably reverse. It'll do it about 90% of the time. I even cracked the case and made sure everything inside was free and working.

It's back in the box, I have other fish to fry.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can get the brush out of the gear very easily by drilling a small hole in the other end of the brush holder (the closed end) and pushing the brush out with a paper clip or small drill bit. If it were mine, I would attempt to make a new gear tooth with JB Weld. Years ago, I fixed a gear in a lathe by milling a slot where the broken tooth was and making a new tooth out of a piece of steel. I then brazed the new tooth in place. Worked fine. You could make a tooth out of a piece of hard plastic, cut a slot in the existing gear to mount the tooth into, and then glue the tooth in place with JB Weld. It might work. The loads on these gears are very light, not like the loads on the gears that drive the loco. Projects like this I do just for the enjoyment of doing them, not to save a few bucks.
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think T-Man's idea of a $5 old Scout probably makes more sense.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

To get it out it would be better to drill IT. The only caution about grilling from behind, is the knob is used as a pivot point on the cover for it to spin.
If he wants to save the the brush then drill cause the gear can be locked to work. This will probably so confusing that he will just chuck it out the window.


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## sentinal77 (Jan 2, 2011)

Unfourtionatly for us in Dallas it has been snowing all day. So even if I did chuck it out the window (which on occasion I may or may not want to do) it wouldn't do any damage. I don't even want to know how you northerns can enjoy this type of weather


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sentinal77 said:


> Unfourtionatly for us in Dallas it has been snowing all day. So even if I did chuck it out the window (which on occasion I may or may not want to do) it wouldn't do any damage. I don't even want to know how you northerns can enjoy this type of weather


Chuck it to the lower forty, where all your cattle are.:thumbsup:

With snow, we don't have to cut the grass or weed the garden.:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Who says we enjoy the winter weather?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Hey, winter weather is for working in the basement on your train layout. That is one thing I don't like about Florida: no basements and no winter weather, although it has been very cold this winter so far. I guess I have to ring up good old Al Gore and ask him why it is so cold this winter. Must be the global warming?? Believe it or not, I have considered moving further north to get a basement and some winter weather so I could build a train layout. What I am seriously considering is a layout in the garage where I can raise it up near the ceiling when not in use. Only problem is rust and corrosion due to the humidity. I could put a dehumidifier in the garage. That wouldn't cost too much.

Someone once said "Never Enough Room,Time or Money for all the Trains!" I think the only exception to this is that huge layout in Germany. Allegedly the guys were making a living from charging admission. Anybody game to try it?

BB


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

But the weather's much to cold for me to paint my old tinplates outside ... I'm bummed here in RI ... lots of loco parts staring me in the face saying, "Paint me, Paint me!" ... but all I can do is look sadly back at them and say, "Gotta wait for springtime, guys ... gotta wait ..."

Brrrr ...

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

TJ,
Pray for a January thaw. I was in Pittsburgh on winter about 24 years ago, and we had 70 degree weather for 2 or 3 days.
Bruce Baker


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## Buster77 (Dec 7, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Who says we enjoy the winter weather?



Exactly. 
Although it was fun as a kid, which for me was quite awhile ago.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I used to live just outside of Watkins Glen, and I remember some three foot snowfalls! Biggest I've ever seen here is a bit over two feet. Just got back from buying a new snow blower, my 25 year old one is finally developing a bad bearing, time for an upgrade!


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