# Opps, I did it again........



## Wicked_Silence

Was looking around some of the local second hand shops and Flea Markets and came across an American Flyer 302 with tender (reverse unit in tender) and 642 Box, 640 Hopper, 631 Gondola and a 638 Caboose. 




























I've hooked it up direct to power as I'm still trying to figure out a way to clean my tracks efficiently and it seems to run great in reverse but doesn't really want to do much in forward. I'm going to pull it apart and clean out the gears and the armature like I did with the last one. I'm also going to open up the tender and take alook at the reverse (E-Unit) as it seems to want to stick changing from forward to reverse and neutral. (Listen to me, you think I'd almost know what I'm talking about. LOL)

Now these have the same couplers as my Royal Blue set, but if anyone is interested, he had a bunch of cars/engines available with the knuckle couplers on them as well. Could probably grab the whole lot cheap. If anyone is interested I can pop down and get more pics of the other stuff.


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## lears2005

I used a bright boy to clean my Lionel track it worked great


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## imatt88

Wicked,

Nice catch!! Looks like its in good shape too.

I'd be interested in what he has, shoot me some pics and prices. I'm always looking for S scale stuff....


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## Wicked_Silence

I will try and pop in to take some pics sometime tomorrow. I ran the 302 and was suprised to see smoke coming outta the stack, so I'm assuming that either the wiring was on fire or it has a smoke unit in the boiler.  I'm happy for $40.


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## Kwikster

Another good track cleaner is the green scotch-brite pads, similar to those on sponges. It's a very fine scrubber and will last quite a while. I've had great success with them. After cleaning wipe the track with 91% or better isoprpyl alcohol to remove any residue. Then a periodic wipe with just alcohol will be plenty.

Carl


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## flyernut

Add me to your list. I'm always interested in a good deal...By the way, nice catch..Several years ago I bought a box lot at the Syracuse show for $30 bucks.I got a 301, tender, a caboose, a transformer, and a bunch of track. My last great score.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wicked -- You mentioned nothing about the locking lever under the tender. It will continue to run in reverse if the reverse unit was in that position and the lever was slid to the "lock" position. Check and be sure it isn't locked before tearing it apart. Just suggesting you check maybe save you some work.

Nice catch b.t.w. -- some of my best acquisitions were old sets with Atlantic engines. They are pretty cheap, have the standard rolling stock but they quickly add to the collection at minimal $$.


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## Kwikster

NBF, he mentioned it seemed sluggish when cycling through the various stages, F-N-R so I'm thinking he may be right. I've not personally seen an AF e-unit, but if anything like Lionel a sticky drum or plunger can cause some of what he describes. As can dirty contacts on the drum and/or fingers.

Wicked, you've come a long way. I'm happy to see you're not afraid to dive in and revive them now. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Carl


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks Kwikster, I wouldn't be there though if it weren't for you guys on the forum. I'd still be staring at The Royal Blue wondering what to do first without the info I got here.

Now with that being said, it looks like the bar just won't drop down all the time between cycles. I tap the tender with a finger and it drops and is ready for the next round. 

Now as for the engine itself, I have come to the conclusion that there is something in the chuffer/smoker that is causing some delay and making the engine slower then it should be. When I disconnect the rod from the gear that makes contact with the armature, and run the engine, it runs fast and normal, but when I re-attach it, it seems like it is hitting something solid and getting stuck, having to slowly work its way thru it before running faster. I've noticed that the wheels are always in the same position when this happens, which is telling me that its something to do with that exact position.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Both should easily fixed with some cleaning, lubrication and TLC. Go to work on the reverse unit with liberal amounts of contact cleaner. Clean the housing and plate real good concentrating on the hinge points. Also go to work on the drum like your Royal Blue and check the fingers for replacement, alignment and good contact. Next, remove the chuffer piston link, like you already have, remove the piston and go to work through the inside of the chuffer cylinder with contact cleaner. Also go to work on the piston cleaning it thoroughly. Finally when reassembling the chuffer, add a miniscule amount of lube to the piston diameter so it slides easier. Hopefully, this will resolve that "slowing" you noticed. If it still runs slow, we'll have to look closer at the issue.

Feels nice to now have American Flyers in your blood, doesn't it??


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## flyernut

Use some Vaseline in that piston cylinder. It will provide a seal. Scrub the cylinder with a green or red scotch-brite.


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## Kwikster

I'd personally not use Vaseline, it tends to get very sticky over time. Turn the engine over so the smoke piston is upside down as close to vertical as possible. Using 5w-20/30 motor oil, place a few drops down the cylinder and let it soak in, add a few more drops and wait a bit more. don't get to heavy. The oil will both soften and lubricate the leather and will last much longer than any type of grease. work the assembly by hand and see if it feels smooth on both directions. 

I would also suggest reading this as the article provides tips on dealing with that very issue.

Carl


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks for the info, I'm not sure if its anything to do with lubrication as it only does it in the forward running position and if that was the case would it not also do it in the reverse position? Well I'm going to try it anyway as what can it really hurt to lube it up a bit more. 

NBF - Yes it does feel good to have the Flyer 'bug' but the problem is, I don't have enough room for an HO layout and now trying to figure out an S Scale one too boot. LOL

I've used a green scotchbright on the rails and it has worked a bit, but I've worn holes right thru the pad with the amount of scrubbing I've done. Should I dry scrub and then use the alcohol later as a rinse or dip the pad in the alcohol and have at it?


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Thanks for the info, I'm not sure if its anything to do with lubrication as it only does it in the forward running position and if that was the case would it not also do it in the reverse position? Well I'm going to try it anyway as what can it really hurt to lube it up a bit more.
> 
> NBF - Yes it does feel good to have the Flyer 'bug' but the problem is, I don't have enough room for an HO layout and now trying to figure out an S Scale one too boot. LOL
> 
> I've used a green scotchbright on the rails and it has worked a bit, but I've worn holes right thru the pad with the amount of scrubbing I've done. Should I dry scrub and then use the alcohol later as a rinse or dip the pad in the alcohol and have at it?


Use a bright-boy.. I just picked up 10 pieces of excellent gray roadbed, and used my bright-boy to polish up the rails of the track that I used in the roadbed.


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## flyernut

Kwikster said:


> I'd personally not use Vaseline, it tends to get very sticky over time. Turn the engine over so the smoke piston is upside down as close to vertical as possible. Using 5w-20/30 motor oil, place a few drops down the cylinder and let it soak in, add a few more drops and wait a bit more. don't get to heavy. The oil will both soften and lubricate the leather and will last much longer than any type of grease. work the assembly by hand and see if it feels smooth on both directions.
> 
> I would also suggest reading this as the article provides tips on dealing with that very issue.
> 
> Carl


There is no leather in a AF smoke unit. Seeing I know nothing of Lionel's smoke units, perhaps they use leather??? The running faster in reverse than forward has been addressed several times here. From what I've learned/read, it comes from running in forward most of the time, causing a minute groove on the face of the armature. The procedure you linked is the same procedure I've been using for several years now, and seems to work pretty darn good. Thanks for posting the reminder, it never hurts to post it again.


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## Wicked_Silence

Thanks for the info, but I don't think its the armature face as when I disconnect the piston rod for the chuffer/smoker the wheels seem to run the same speed in either direction. This leads me to believe that there is something to do with the whole chuffer/piston assembly that is causing the slowdown and not the face on the armature.


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## Kwikster

flyernut said:


> There is no leather in a AF smoke unit. Seeing I know nothing of Lionel's smoke units, perhaps they use leather???


My mistake, I thought I had read somewhere that they used a leather cup on the piston. No Lionel doesn't use leather either. Their smoker piston looks kind of like an inverted cup, closed end to the smoker. I apologize for incorrect information. 

Carl


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Don't know if this is the issue, but which way is the link connected to the drive gear and the piston? I believe the longer side is to be connected at the piston end and the short side to be connected on the (Left Hand Engine Side) gear face. Not sure if the link can possibly be oriented in reverse or if it's a one-way only fit. But it is something to check. Anyone else? Do I have it oriented correctly?


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## flyernut

Kwikster said:


> My mistake, I thought I had read somewhere that they used a leather cup on the piston. No Lionel doesn't use leather either. Their smoker piston looks kind of like an inverted cup, closed end to the smoker. I apologize for incorrect information.
> 
> Carl


Certainly no apology is needed. I thought that maybe Lionel used leather as a sealer in their units. Maybe in s-i-t units used some type of material??


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## Wicked_Silence

I'll see if I can find a pic online of the piston unit, if not, I'll pull it apart again this week and take some actual pics and possibly some video of it in action.


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## Wicked_Silence

Found this pic. Its pretty close to what I'm looking at for the piston assembly with the exception of the piston bar being straight and not offset like the one in the pic. It is attached to the gear in the same manner.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well you guys asked what the shop might have in so I popped by today and snapped some pics. Let me know if anyone is interested in anything.










300 AC w/Tender Reading Lines
290 w/Tender Canadian National
736 Missouri Pacific Has all 3 doors on it.
632 Hopper Car
630 Caboose (not lighted)
923 Box Car

601-604 Passenger Cars





































No idea what the condition of the engines are. The Passenger Cars are NOT aluminum, they are plastic. All cars have the knuckle couplers on them.


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## flyernut

What's he asking for the stuff individually? I like the plastic chrome passenger car.


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## Wicked_Silence

Well for most of the stuff, he would probably be pretty reasonable. The unfortunate thing about the passenger cars is, he was told that they were pretty valuble and wants $100 each for em. I told him that someone on the forum bought 3 for $100 and that they were real aluminum and not plastic, but he wouldn't move on those.


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## imatt88

Wicked,

What does he want for the 290?


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## Wicked_Silence

I'm not sure, I was kinda hoping on going back with an offer on everything and then sort it out. I know he said something about my engine being worth about $50 when we originally haggled. So I am thinking that he would value the other 2 engines at about the same.


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## imatt88

OK, I'm interested in the in the 290. LMK what he wants for it


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## Wicked_Silence

Okay I'll keep you in mind for the 290. Hoping on clearing him out of the S scale stuff and passing it all on to people here that will use it. 

Oh, forgot that the Pacific Missouri car is metal (tin possibly) and not plastic. I think its a mail car but don't quote me on that.


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## imatt88

cool, thanks:thumbsup:


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Well for most of the stuff, he would probably be pretty reasonable. The unfortunate thing about the passenger cars is, he was told that they were pretty valuble and wants $100 each for em. I told him that someone on the forum bought 3 for $100 and that they were real aluminum and not plastic, but he wouldn't move on those.


I was the guy who bought the 3 aluminum cars for $110 bucks, and they are indeed all aluminum and very nice! I also have bought the 900 series passenger cars, the one that is shown and a observation car, and paid $75 bucks for the pair, shipped. He can have the car, lol... I'm also interested in the 290, but seeing I have several already, please let Ian have first dibs...


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## Wicked_Silence

Yes, I remembered reading your post about them when I saw these. Unfortunately, the guy selling these only has the info from one source and that is the man selling them to him. I'll put you next in line for the 290, I want to get a few more of these spoken for and I will go and make him an offer for everything. No point in doing several trips for single pieces.

Oh and that passenger car was 1 of 4. He had all different ones, the Observation Car, End car, passenger car (I think) and the one in the pic.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> Yes, I remembered reading your post about them when I saw these. Unfortunately, the guy selling these only has the info from one source and that is the man selling them to him. I'll put you next in line for the 290, I want to get a few more of these spoken for and I will go and make him an offer for everything. No point in doing several trips for single pieces.
> 
> Oh and that passenger car was 1 of 4. He had all different ones, the Observation Car, End car, passenger car (I think) and the one in the pic.


I like the one in the picture, and possibly a baggage car....And, thanks!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Am I to understand your piston link to smoke unit is a straight piece, not offset on this 302AC?? I may be wrong, but I thought all piston links to smoke units had an offset bend. In fact , I have yet to see one that isn't. Could this be your problem?? Do you have another link (an offset one) to try in its place? Then see if the problem is resolved. If you don't, let know....I'm sure I can find a spare to send to you.


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## imatt88

Loren,

thanks man:thumbsup:

Cheers, Ian


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## Wicked_Silence

YEah, its a straight piston rod. No idea if it is suppose to be offset or not. Might explain the jerkiness when I run it forward but doesn't explain why its so smooth going backwards.


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## flyernut

Wicked_Silence said:


> YEah, its a straight piston rod. No idea if it is suppose to be offset or not. Might explain the jerkiness when I run it forward but doesn't explain why its so smooth going backwards.


Should have a small bend it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yea, I think it should too. Do you need another one? Let me know.....


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## Nuttin But Flyer

wicked -- what's up with this project? do you need a new piston link?

also for the others who have reported on the fix for uneven commuter plates....how would someone re-surface the plates when they do not own a drill press? any way to do so?


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## Kwikster

A couple ways to accomplish that. If you have a vise you can "gently" clamp a drill in the vise, then work on the commutator. Another, less stable method, is using a clamp and block of wood to hold the drill steady. The latter requires more patience to get the drill set properly. That frees up one hand to work the sandpaper and one for the drill.

Carl


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