# Help reccomend transformer?



## BrianandSons (Aug 26, 2015)

I need to purchase a transformer for some lionel 0 gauge trains I've received as a gift. I currently have a few cars and some accessories. I have a cattle loader, barrel loader, and milk can loader. Currently waiting on a diesel engine getting repaired, not sure what it is to be exact. I really like the accessories and may expand with a coal loader, rotating beacon etc. The trains and switches I have are all older stuff, so I may not be able to go with DCC operation, not sure exactly how that works.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I would suspect that DCC is not an option for most O-scale stuff, even with electronic upgrades. If you want to go command with the remote, the easiest stuff with a variety of equipment is TMCC.

As for the transformer, I'd consider a postwar Lionel ZW with an upgraded circuit breaker. Rebuild ZW transformers can be had for around $150, and it should last you for a long time. It gives you four variable voltage outputs, and you'll frequently find that various accessories like slightly different running voltages.


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2015)

If it turns out you will be running conventional, I would opt for either a Lionel ZW or KW transformer.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I would agree that a KW (2 train) or ZW (4 train) transformer would be your best bet, and add the protection elements mentioned in a lot of previous posts. I have to throw in my two cents worth on one transformer to stay away from....CW-80, either older version or newer version. 

After reading posts on the CW-80, over the past year and a half, it appears to be one of the most problem prone transformers on the market. I wouldn't take one, if you gave it to me, after all the negatives I have seen from problems people have. Of course, others swear by them, and apparently have had luck with them. So some searching on the CW-80, on different forums, about the problems people have, and decide for yourself. JUST MY 2 CENTS!!


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2015)

My two cents worth, get a ZW.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Do you have a transformer now? I do agree the zw gives the most power and reliability for the money. Plus it is very cool looking and fun to operate


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

*Don't Go Cheap, You'll Be Sorry*

I agree with the postwar ZW recommendations. I strongly urge you to purchase a completely refurbished item. Anything less is a invitation to problems immediately or shortly down the road.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

BrianandSons: I'm going to break from the crowd here and put in a plug for another alternative: the smooth sine wave MTH Z4000. I have used one for my 2 mainlines on a rather small conventional layout which consists of 2 4 x 8 tables and 1 4 x 6 table arranged into a "J" shape, and I have never had any power problems. It has operated for over 2 years flawlessly for what I have.

I also have a long oval with a siding for the freight trains and have been using a CW80 for that, going on 5 years now. So mine is basically 3 independent loops with a Z4000 and a CW80. They provide more power than I really need, but it's still nice to have them.

The Z4000 has built-in circuit breakers, so requires no additional add-ons. The volts and amps display for each loop are shown in red LED numbers just above the easy-to-use push buttons for the horns and bells. It's easy to operate, easy to read, and costs about half as much as a new Lionel ZW-L.

Now if you have acres of layout space and run 15 to 20 trains like some of the more advanced members on this forum do, then yes, a few ZW-Ls might be better. But for my money and the relatively "humble" conventional layout I have. a Z4000 and a CW80 work just fine. 

I may expand in the future with additional layout space, broader curves, more trains, etc. But until that time comes, I'm happy with these.


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## Chris Lonero (Sep 13, 2015)

I agree with everyone else. If you're running older trains not so much electronics then the old tried-and-true ZW transformer is the way to go.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

BrianandSons: Sorry, I think I misread the previous posts which recommended the postwar ZW, not the new ZW-L. Even so, I had a postwar ZW whcih had supposedly been reconditioned, but it died about a year after I'd purchased it. The Z4000 is a newer product for modern trains, but is also great for conventional Lionel postwar trains.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nothing wrong with the Z4000 Vern, I have one. However, it is well over twice the price of the perfectly adequate fully rebuild ZW at around $150-160, so that's something to consider.


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## Agent027 (Sep 7, 2015)

*Don't overlook the Lionel 1033*

Brian, I'm going to make a different recommendation based on my experience.

Sounds like not only are you just getting started, but you have other financial obligations. I've been using the Lionel 1033 transformer for decades and I think it is one of the best Lionel ever made.

No, it does not have the overall power of the ZW. But it has the advantage of two different voltage settings to the track (train power). If you are running an older postwar or MPC engine with an AC Pullmor motor, the A-U setting of 5-16 volts is perfect.

BUT, since you are probably on a budget, your purchases may have to reflect that reality. Many of the more affordable locos on the secondary market such as Lionel production from mid 1980's through late 1990's or the K-Line MP-15, Alco FA, and S-2 switcher have truck mounted DC can motors that do run on AC current via the rectifier in the circuit board reverse unit.

These types of engines run like speed demons on the normal minimum 6 volts that many Lionel transformers (like the ZW) start with. The 1033 also has an alternate B-U setting putting 0-11 volts to the track, which is perfect for the locos I mentioned. 

You could easily get a second 1033 transformer to run accessories and still save money over a single ZW.

Just a thought. I'm a conventional, non-digital control operator also on a budget. My tastes are neither high end nor expensive. From my own experience, I have found the Lionel 1033 to be an outstanding transformer for the money spent on one.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The 1033 will only deliver 16 volts maximum at about 70 watts maximum at the output. That may be marginal for all he wants to do. They are a very reliable beast, I have several of them. Two 1033's would work, but the ZW still delivers more power. As far as lowering the track voltage, a cheap way to do that is using a handful of 6 amp silicon diodes back-to-back if it's necessary.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ill agree with GRj , I started with a 1033. The layout quickly outgrew it. Those accessories are power hogs. Add that to switches, lighting, etc and its quickly underpowered. I did use a 1033 just for my lighting, but I still needed to replace it as my lighting grew. The zw is nice in that I use th inside connections for various accessories. The Post war stuff needs different power settings for optimal operations. So having a handle in front of me makes it easy to adjust.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The ZW or KW would solve the problem, anything else and you increase the chance of needing another for power. Here is the link to all the transformers The ZW and KW are more common and easier to find and shop around .


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Nothing wrong with the Z4000 Vern, I have one. However, it is well over twice the price of the perfectly adequate fully rebuild ZW at around $150-160, so that's something to consider.


True, John and you would certainly know. But having been burned once with a reconditioned postwar Lionel ZW, I just think the Z4000 would be more dependable in the long run, without having to tinker with it for automatic breakers, etc. Also the posts for 10 volt and 14 volt accessories would be just about all anyone would need. I've seem them on Ebay for just over $200 used.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, I've worked on several Z4000 transformers. While they have been some of the more reliable electronic transformers, there is still quite a bit of stuff to go wrong in them. The ZW is very simple to fix, no hi-tech here. 

If you see a working Z4000 for $200, you should grab it. I bought mine when I went to the MTH tech training, and the factory cost is more than that.


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## BrianandSons (Aug 26, 2015)

Lots of great advice here.. thanks! I will have to do some searching, sounds like it will come down to the 1033 or ZW depending on price. As some mentioned 1033 is cheaper but may need to upgrade later. Will be taking that into consideration for sure. This hobby is a little more expensive than I expected but what I received as gift is priceless. Looking forward to seeing everything in motion. Thanks again for all the help everyone!


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

I just want to add a small comment to the conversation relative to postwar ZWs. My dad bought me one way back in the 50s, and I just really like them. It was pretty expensive for him at the time. I buy them whenever I see them at auctions or estate sales. I rebuild them as needed, put in new solid state diodes, new rollers, etc. So far, I have done a dozen or so and looking for more. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

BrianandSons said:


> Lots of great advice here.. thanks! I will have to do some searching, sounds like it will come down to the 1033 or ZW depending on price. As some mentioned 1033 is cheaper but may need to upgrade later. Will be taking that into consideration for sure. This hobby is a little more expensive than I expected but what I received as gift is priceless. Looking forward to seeing everything in motion. Thanks again for all the help everyone!


Another alternative not mentioned is an LW. A wee bit more amp power than a 1033 (125 watts vs 90) has accessory outputs and is very durable. The only thing I've done to mine is the typical cord replacement. It's been in the family since brand new as it used to be my dads, so I know it's history. It has one unique feature, the throttle lever is lit up as is the green cap in the center.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Post-War-Lionel-LW-Transformer-/221898532827?hash=item33aa2ee7db

Carl


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## BrianandSons (Aug 26, 2015)

I made my decision. Chose a 1033 to get things going. Also came with a 4851 (60W), not really sure what all I can do with this. Found on feebay. Was $15 US, after exchange, shipping+international shipping fees, came to $61.00. Not bad I guess..the ZW would have been well over $200 to my door.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

BrianandSons: I guess I didn't bother to read where you live. With international shipping charges that high for Nova Scotia, I can see why you wanted a smaller and lighter transformer for what you are running. Good luck with your final decision.

By the way, Hank Snow was one of my all-time favorite country singers.


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