# 1666 help



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

My nickel rim on my 1666 has seperated from the tire. Can I glue it back on and with what type of glue?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

I would see no reason it can't be glued back on. A couple thing you can use, one is CA (crazy/super glue) and another is RTV. RTV can be bought in black, works well and has a bit more working time if you make a mistake. Either way parts must be very clean for a good bond.

Carl


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

A common CA glue is "ZAP".

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you want it to never come off, use Loctite 380, it will not come off again!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cool , thanks. I just did not want to use the wrong thing. I know some glues expand a lot like gorilla glue and did not want to wast time fixing a mistake. Thanks


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have used Loctite 680 for parts that were never going to come apart.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A good choice to be sure. I just don't have it on hand, since I rarely have use for it. However, the 380 is a great all around adhesive, so it's a staple here.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Anythings better then the rim flapping around sparking up the place.


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## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

I was trying to figure out how a rim got separated from a driver on a 1666, then I realized y'all were talking about that *other* 1666 and not the Marx one. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Handyandy if you would have figured that out you would have won a prize.lol! My fault i'll specify brand next time. By the way thats a nice looking train you have there.


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## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks SJM. 
Hope you get your rim re-attached.

I guess I am more of a Marxist than I thought! LOL


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Handyandy said:


> I guess I am more of a Marxist than I thought! LOL


Nice going ... Karl ...


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Your secrets safe with us, comrade.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks all. I reattached the rim, cleaned and lubed the eng. I am going to let it cure over night and test in in the morning. I ended up using the permatex version of the locktight. Thats all that was available. Should work fine.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Hopefully this pic loads. My Loinel 1666.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

A few more pic. Did I put the rods on right? I forgot to take before pictures. The arms turn and clear the car but something looks wrong? And if some one could tell me what the name is for the a arms/ rods on the wheels I would be appreciative. Thanks.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Drive rods, crosshead, crosshead guide, valve gear, etc.

Generally, drive rod components.

Look at the other side of the loco (the one you didn't disassemble) to check for part positioning!

Cheers,

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I took it all apart to clean and de rust. I messed up.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Do a Search here on Lionel 1666 ... I think you'll find some other threads, pics.

Or ...

Go to ebay. Search for Lionel 1666 ... you're bound to find some nice pics where you can zoom in to see the drive rod components.

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cant search on my new phone yet. Desktop is down and the wife hogs the ipad. Just figured out how to post pics again after 3 weeks. I can mess around with it so the arms look better. Good idea to look for pics , thats why I post I can't think of everything. Thanks


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

1666 first test run was a failure. The rim on the other side fell off. I attached that one also and let it cure for a day. The rims stayed on. And the drive rods look ok. My new problem is the e unit (I think) . The 1666 just stops by itself like it is shorted out. It then goes into reverse. Stops forward. I think I will check the wiring next. As always any advice is appretiated. Thanks


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Could be the wiring. Could be the track and/or pickups (momentary power loss). Or, it could be a bent/misaligned e-unit contact finger.

Does it stop / reverse at the same place on the track? Over a switch?

Are the contact shoes/rollers (I forget which) pushing down into the center rail OK?

The e-unit has 8 positions to one full drum rotatoin cycle: f-n-r-n-f-n-r-n Any "cycle of 8" pattern to what you're seeing? (I.e., hits first reverse OK, but not the second?)

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Pu shoes are new. Track is fine. At first I thought the new shoes were getting held up in the switches. The engine does it randomly at no spacific spot. It goes through the e unit cycle without missing any steps (ill recheck later) . The wires looked ok (but old) when I cleaned the unit. It responds to the direction controls but then stops ( neutral ) . Sometimes it moves a bit and needs to be restarted from the controll. Some times it goes buy itself f n r n .that s why I think it has to due with the e unit.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You're either losing power momentarily (which is dropping the e-unit plunger and cycling an eigth-turn on the drum), or, you have a contact finger bent / touching the drum the wrong way. The former could be from a pu not springy enough to touch the rail, a bouncy shorted-out wire, etc.

Edit --

It could be a squished (too short) brush spring or brush. Not enough length/tension to push the brush against the armature at all times. That would be interpretted as a momentary loss of power, which would cycle the e-unit.

Have you checked the brushes/springs?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Brushes and springs are good. I cleaned them and made sure they were touching the armiture. The pu are good. I will check them again tomnorow. Thanks. I just ran it again for a moment. The e unit hums in neutral( normal) but sometimes when it goes into neutral ( with power ) i dont hear it humming. After I slide the eng a little bit on the track it kicks back on . Ill let you know what I can find tommorow. Thanks again.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

It hums when powered, with the e-unit plunger lifted. Maybe the plunger is getting stuck? Squirt some electic contact cleaner in there to loosen things up, perhaps.

And it's the lifting of the plunger that actually turns the e-unit drum (rather than the dropping of the plunger). So, maybe your plunger is gunked up and stuck down at times, even though it has power, and all of a sudden, it unsticks and gets pulled up, cycling the e-unit in the process.

Just a thought ...


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cool thanks. I will check that also.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Possibly, all those rims you are gluing back on with Loctite are becoming insulated with the thin film of loctite between the wheel mounting surface and the rim, you may be running out of electrical pickup from the wheels.

You can check it with a Volt meter set on OHMS.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Good idea.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Also was thinking that when I put on the second rim. This time I bought a steel reinforced epoxy( have no clue as to the effects) .. now that I'm thinking about it t he engine was also doing this when I first ran it I attributed it to the rim shorting out on the track


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I had a problem with a loco with sliding shoes when I put new shoes on it. I had to run it for a while before it worked reliably. Put your E unit in forward only and run the loco for a while and see if things get better.

The wire in the locos generally doesn't go bad but you could have a wire that has broken loose and needs to be re-soldered.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok took it apart. Cleaned the e unit, dremiled the shoes. It had good contact with the trac and had power. The light stayed on. Same problem . Ran it for a bit without the shell and it stoped and eather the wires or e unit started to smoke. Took it off the track and pulled the wires straight hooked up some jumpers and it seamed to work. I will try to rewire it. My solder skill are lacking though.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Are you sure it's not a mechanical issue? Something binding the gears, drive rods, etc. from turning easily?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No its not binding up. Every thing was lubed and spins freely. I did start to rewire it. I cheated a bit since I do not have an e unit spreader. I cut all the wires back coming off the e unit and spliced in new. As I was finnishing up one of the wires on the e unit fell off. I might wait to get the spreader and hope that was the problem.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You can pop open the e-unit sides with a needlenose pliers. Insert the jaws, and gently but firmly pull outwards on the handles. Do this over a soft cloth, so that if any falls out (fingers, drum), it'll have a cushy landing.

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks tj . I'm going to give a another try friday. I just sodered it on the outside and put it on the track . It started smoking again. Going to look over the wiring diagram or compare it to another eng. Someone did some work on this one a long time ago. I just copied the wiring as was that doesn't mean its right.. if the e unit goes bad would it smoke?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Got it working. As far as I could tell it was two problems . The first was the loose wire. I back wired a new one through the e unit without dissasembling it . Not pretty but it worked. This caused the e unit to cycle as it moved. The loose wire would bounce and close and open the circuit. The second unrelated problem was the brush holder. It was loose on one side. Not the plate but the actual tube that held the brush itself. The tube is connected to a round ( I dont know the correct name) base that the wire goes into. As the engine ran this connector would make contact with the armiture causing a short. It would move back and forth. This is why sometimes the engine worked and sometimes it smoked.. Thank you everyone. Ill put the shell on later. (Hopefully it will still work).


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok I put the shell back on and now it will not go in reverse. It goes through the cycle, but instead of reverse it moves a tiny bit and stops. I'll try taking apart the e unit friday check all the tabs and finish the new wiring all the way through. After im done i'm taking the one off the number and make this a 666 engine. Thanks once again.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ahh ... I had wondered if it was a brush issue (partially).

We mentioned that e-unit works in cycle of 8: f-n-r-n-f-n-r-n

See if the no-go reverse happens on BOTH "r's" in the 8-step cycle, or just one. My guess here is a contact finger that's not quite making full contact with the drum.

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

How did you repair the brush holder? Did you solder the tab to the tube?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Servoguy, I did start to do that since the other one was like that . At first I thought it a bad solder job. Then I thought better of it . I removed the solder from the other tube and went with a simpler idea. I bent the top tabs in order to wedge them from not moving. I also cleaned them of excess solder. Should I have left it soldered? I dont know? I will try running it through the whole e unit cycle on friday. I only thought it had 4 turns. I did not try 8. I guess thats how many teeth are on the spindle.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

sjm9911 said:


> I did not try 8. I guess thats how many teeth are on the spindle.


Yup ... 8 teeth.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks tj, hopefully I will get a chance to tak e it apart tommorow. Have to gas up the snowblower.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Success at last. I got over my fears of the dreaded e unit. Taking it apart was easy . I cleaned everything up and re bent the fingers. I also took my crappie pig tail jumpers out and soldered them properly ( as least as properly as I could) to the e unit. Tj was right you need 5 extra hands when working on these suckers. That was the easy part. Getting the e unit back together was a whole different animal. It was a pain. I bent up the fingers pretty good the first time. The wheel with the teeth got loose and reeked havoc on the bottom plate. I ended up cutting the bottom plate back with a razor knife a bit so it would slide into one side more easily. Thanks everyone it works! Servoguy about the solder on the brush plate should I have left it on. One of the wire connections is still a little loose. It will most likely get worse as I run the engine.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SJM,

Welcome to the madness of the e-unit club! For masochists, only!!!

I remember "my first time" a couple of years ago. Boy, was I clumsy ... What does this part do? What hole does that go in? 

But, as time went by, I gained more and more experience with each encounter. I'm at the point now where I actually can enjoy the act ... letting my mind relax in the moment.

So .. stick with it ... it'll come naturally, in the end.

(And YES, folks ... I AM talking about e-unit surgery here !!!)



TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> (And YES, folks ... I AM talking about e-unit surgery here !!!)


You sure? It sounded like something else to me.  I was hoping I wouldn't have to moderate you.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

There is an easy way to replace the drum and lower fingers in an E unit. Don't take it apart. Gently bend the side plates until the drum and lower fingers will come out. Leave the side plates attached together by the rivet. Replace the drum and lower fingers and then gently bend the side plates back together. Still takes two hands, but it beats the problem of putting a disassembled E unit back together.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Grj, please dont moderate tj. Thats exactly what it was like. I knew where all the parts went, when I tried to insert them I had problems. I read all the manuals. Hell I even watched the video. But when it came time to put all I saw into action I came up short. With more practice I will be fine.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Servoguy thanks , I never want to do that again. How can I secure the brush holders? Anyone? And another Thank You to everyone. This is my best looking engine. Everything else I have is good running junk.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

One thing I have done with some of my locos is touch up the black paint with a black sharpie or indelible marker. It isn't perfect, but at least everything is the same color. I bought a 2065 loco recently that was pretty banged up, and it looks a lot better. I have done it with some tenders that were pretty bad. I have also touched up the red on my 2353 and it looks much better.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I will try that on the worse looking eng. Thanks.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

There will be a slight purple sheen from the black marker, but it will disappear over time. You may be able to rub it off with your thumb.


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