# Track plan…..<Ducking>



## BowtieMan (Jul 14, 2014)

HI all, I am designing a layout and could use your help. 

I will be running mainly AC4400 loco's with modernish rolling stock. Probably the longest thing I will be hauling is well/stack cars. 

I know the industrial/town area needs help and I have not given it much attention yet but I am mainly concerned with longer mainline runs. I like to watch trains run. I will be tweaking the town area. I mainly want to see long mains with great scenery (that's gonna be hard cause I suck at scenery). 

Here is my first version of the track plan so far. It is the first sketch so I know there is a long way to go. Please give me your feedback and let me know what you think. All tunnel areas will have access and I can reach all areas of the layout with ease. I want to get a reversing move in here somehow and I know I need to add another crossover. 

There are elevations that are not marked so you may have to use your imagination for now until I get a bit further into the plan.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Two things I'd do...
First I'd make the corners of the pit rounded...there's no real loss of moving space by doing so and it does greatly improve the available space for the track plan.

Then I'd try very hard to avoid long tunnels (dotted lines I believe)...they deny the main goal of a layout wich is seeing trains rolling and unless the top is removable,they can be a maintenance nightmare.

I haven't given much thought to the operational value of the plan (late,going to bed) but other members will sure pitch in with ideas.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Bow

Very interesting layout for running. Makes for a long run before
going over the same track twice.

It's kinda short on spur and yard tracks. You might be able to
get a couple of yard tracks off that spur angled down from the
top, and perhaps one off the inner loop on the left.

It's basically a single track main. I was looking for where you
could build passing sidings so you could run trains in opposite
directions but it appears there's not the geometry for them.

With the single crossover between the main line and the inner
loop a train could cross over forward but it would have to back
out. That would be a good place for a douible crossover.

Don


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Depends what the goal is.

If you like to just put a pair of trains on orbit on the two separate loops and watch them run, looks like on OK design. The tunnels aren't actually that bad. The scenery breaks things up a little. And if you design it right you can have maintenance access from underneath for cleaning or repairs. And I've seen *far* longer stretches of hidden track on a larger layout that works just fine. 

If you want to do any switching or realistic operations (and I recognize that a lot of people around here don't, and that's fine) the plan is severely lacking in many ways. (Minimal spurs, no passing sidings or runaround tracks (although at the moment all the spurs face the same way, so there isn't a track you can't work as long as your train always travels clockwise), no yard, no apparent theme or operating plan, etc.) But this may not be the goal, so hard to evaluate. 

If you ever do get interesting in some sort of realistic operating, this layout won't do it. But as a "railfanning" layout, could work fine for you.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

DonR said:


> Bow
> 
> With the single crossover between the main line and the inner
> loop a train could cross over forward but it would have to back
> out. That would be a good place for a douible crossover.


Ideally I'd put the second crossover in the other direction at the other end of the "double track" section rather than use the unrealistic double crossover (this could also potentially be more flexible for allowing trains to pass), but this would require some minor straightening and adjustment of the geometry before the tunnel, or custom building a curved crossover. (Can be done but would require some handlaid switches.)


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## Mayhem (Mar 25, 2013)

What I see, is that the inner loop looks like once your on it, you have to back out. I hope its not just me..other than that looks good.


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## BowtieMan (Jul 14, 2014)

@Jake, I have already built my tables and hindsight being what it is, I would have rounded them. BUt alas, it is what it is. I will have to live with it. I even already have my fascia boards up. The tunnels will have complete access from underneath the lift out (square access hole will be located under the lake) Operationally? Yes it is lacking but only because I haven't really got to that part yet. Mainly was trying to work out the mainlines. Thanks for your reply!

@DonR, you're right. I will be adding more spurs/industries as I go. I also plan on working in another crossover somewhere. AS stated in my OP, I know I still need another one. 

@CV, you too are right, I know it is not an operational layout. It is mainly for me to watch trains. I also want to incorporate as many scenic photographic opportunities as possible. Operations will be at a minimum and only as a representation for picture opportunities. I am trying to work in the other crossover exactly where you describe but will have to play a bit with track spacing in that area. I think it may be a good opportunity to have a small ravine between tracks or at least a good size ditch. 

@Mayhem, you are also right but as stated in my OP I know I need to add another crossover. I will be working on it some more tonight and see what I can come up with. 

I am more of a visual person, I have to see it to know if I like it, so, what I am doing is pinning down half of a strip of cork roadbed on the tables and also pinning down the inclines so I can "See" it. Then I am transposing it over to xtrack. I am also planning on putting some kind of siding/industry in the mountain area. It will probably be a coal mine. Status quo, I know but there aren't a lot of options. I may try and do a nuclear plant too. There would be some great opportunities for 8 legged deer and 4 eyed bears there!

Thanks for the responses and I hope they keep coming! I am getting excited about seeing this come to fruition!


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## BowtieMan (Jul 14, 2014)

I got the other crossover in but am really struggling with the city/town area. I am going to use my closet for hidden storage/yard area hence the track extending to the left under the main. I would really like to connect the two leads and have a loop going through the town area but the radii are killing me. 

Any suggestions?


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Hiy Bowtie, table built or not I'd still take a saw to that corner stickin' out in your work area!! But that's just me, you'll prolly be making a bunch more changes as you go!
Where in TN are you? I'm I'm Memphis currently. When I saw the size of the lake, I wuz hoping you had expanded your access hole enough for elbow room, your tables are above 50", correct? Anyhow, it looks good, I think they're right about putting in a double crossover... Good luck with it!!!!


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

BTW, you could place a little fillet in any of those corners easy enough, if you wanted, say, to not cut the corner so close with the track.


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## BowtieMan (Jul 14, 2014)

So today I was down putting some finishing touches on the tables. I start looking at those blasted corners. Whelp, a few modifications later and all of the inside corners are now rounded. The one outside corner is still there but I am eyeballing it too now. I am debating putting an industry of some sort there so I want to wait and see what I come up with before I lose that area. 

I caulked down my incline sets today and got about a half a dozen strips of cork roadbed down. I ordered my turnouts today and will have them next Wednesday. 

Good progress today,


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sounds great, it's almost time for some progress pictures.


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## BowtieMan (Jul 14, 2014)

Well, I've run into a snag. I got some roadbed down and temporarily put a piece or two of track in place to check some curve radii. I am not happy at ALL with the way the cars overhang the curves. 










So, I am going to look at just doing a twice around loop instead of a double dog bone. The dog bones are giving me an entirely too tight radius for these 48' container cars. I can't imagine how bad it will look if I try a longer car.

This is a VERY rough draft of what I am going to explore. 










So far with this rendition, the minimum radius is about 34" While not the best it is much more realistic. I can work with this. Having a long mainline run is important to me. The longest possible is what I want. I will start renovating the incline sets and relocate them to accommodate the twice around-up and over loops.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

BowtieMan said:


> Well, I've run into a snag. I got some roadbed down and temporarily put a piece or two of track in place to check some curve radii. I am not happy at ALL with the way the cars overhang the curves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's not a nice constant curve either; it's pretty slight at left and then really cranks into a really tight curve where your car is sitting. This can be the tricky part with learning how to use flextrack or and your own curves. Very easy to work yourself into some nasty geometry if you're doing it by eye and not measuring it out carefully. A little easement into the curve is good, but you don't want to end up with a curve in the middle that's too tight. It might be 30"+ on the plan overall, but there's a nasty tight kink in the middle that gradually evens out. Part of this curve is probably 50", tightening down to something like 20" in the tight part in the middle. Which means you have 20" curves, not 30". (for example)

Common tricks are to use a pencil attached to a string, or a hole drilled in a yard stick or similar straight piece of wood. Attach the other end to a pivot point and measure out the radius precisely. Then by swinging the stick around the pivot point, you can draw an accurate curve. For a convex curve or other locations where you can't really do this on the actual benchwork, so this on a large piece of cardboard like an appliance box and cut out a template that can be used to trace out track lines and verify the curvature.


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