# questions from a "pre-newb"



## nunlef (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi,
background - I am a female, have a husband, 3 little kids. My husband and I both have fond memories of our trainsets, and just bought an O scale set for our kids.

Now, I didn't know that O was so big, I must have had an HO or smaller (?). I would like to set up an HO layout for the family to enjoy, and have questions about the early stages.

1) I have seen "EZ"tracks "Fast tracks", etc... I really like the look of the ballast stuff, can you use that shakey stuff with those types of tracks, or do you need to buy bare(?) tracks.

2) do you need to have all the track you would ever want before you start a layout? My plan would be to let the kids play with the O on the floor, and build my masterpiece slowly. Can tracks be trimmed down if my plan is the "wrong" size? 

that's all for now, I think, though I'll probably have more soon.

Thanks,
Heather


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

The EZ-Track has the road bed attached. To use the balast the flex or snap track (what you called bare) is normally used. To use the flex or snap a cork road bed or something simulare is laid down. The great part of the flex track is that it can be cut to any size you need.


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## Smokestack Lightning (Oct 31, 2010)

You can glue ballast to the outside of E-Z track for more realism. Flex track is certainly much more realistic.


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## modeltrainhead (Nov 15, 2009)

for some reason i think that adults are misjudging kids like we are people, I'm a Tween And im building a masterpiece... anyway you might be able to do that i do this. buy cork roadbed, and ballast my word for the MINI ROCKS on the cork roadbed law the cork roadbed in the form of the track you need then lay the track you need on it then BAM WAZZAM BALLAST AND do some kinda formula to keep it down


Hopefully this helps

this should be finished product
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0oGdU.drvVMZH8B7e9XNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p=finished+cork+roadbed+trackwork&fr2=tab-web&fr=ytff1-sunm
http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dfinished%2Bcork%2Broadbed%2Btrackwork%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Dytff1-sunm%26fr2%3Dtab-web&w=504&h=378&imgurl=www.oscalemag.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2007%2F03%2Fblog6.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oscalemag.com%2Fwordpress%2F%3Fp%3D188&size=156KB&name=...+trackwork+is...&p=finished+cork+roadbed+trackwork&oid=89ef072542c670e80bbe8e05ac00d9e9&fr2=tab-web&no=5&tt=13&sigr=119ea1toc&sigi=120s24mcf&sigb=13h6romdl&.crumb=TBAZikwWDmm
http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dfinished%2Bcork%2Broadbed%2Btrackwork%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Dytff1-sunm%26fr2%3Dtab-web&w=576&h=412&imgurl=www.trainweb.org%2Fcentreg%2Fmodels%2Fob_roadbed1.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trainweb.org%2Fcentreg%2Fmodels%2Fmodels_home.html&size=56KB&name=Finished+cork+ro...&p=finished+cork+roadbed+trackwork&oid=cce3ec98980dcf224d839c935a7e27d6&fr2=tab-web&no=1&tt=13&sigr=11nmbc28u&sigi=11fij8bh5&sigb=13h6romdl&.crumb=TBAZikwWDmm


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I can see both pros and cons to the integrated roadbed track:

Cons:
1. Sound. There is empty space under the road bed that amplifies the sound o the train running over it (not in a good way). Some do not mind this, to me it is an annoyance. 
2. You are limited to the manufacturers selection of parts. 
3. In the end it tends to cost more.

Pros:
1. Ease of use.
2. Turns are always even.
3. Can be run on carpet without potential to damage locomotive.

Regardless of what you choose you will be much happier if you choose NS track. It does not corrode or rust like brass and steel do.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi Heather,

Nice to have you onboard. Welcome to the gang of "I like playing with toy train" crazies ... myself included!

Couple of points ...

Big difference in size and layout space requirements of O and HO, as you have seen. Both can offer great fun. Older/vintage Lionel O is more "toylike" in appearance (along with its traditional accessories), however Lionel and "MTH" (a quasi sister mfr) also offer higher-end, realistic trains. Most O runs on 3-rail track with AC power.

By definition, HO is about half the size of its O counterpart. Accordingly, one can pack a much more extensive layout (turnouts, freight yards, sidings, etc.) into a comparable layout size. There are LOTS of HO mfrs -- cheap, middle line, high end; all with their respective price ranges -- and accessories (building, scenery) are readily available. Also, there's LOTS of 2nd-hand HO stuff (often very good quality) available on ebay, forum sites, etc. HO runs on 2-rail DC power (traditional technology), however ...

Both O and HO can be run with "DCC" technology ... voltage is sent to the track in a bar-code-like manner. Unique "decoder chips" in each locomotive interpret the bar-code signals, and decide if the instruction was meant for them: speed up, slow down, continue on, etc. The benefit here is that one can run multiple trains independently on the same set of tracks, without having to resort to complex wiring buses and track zone that were common place with traditional powering technology.

So, traditional power (AC for O, HO for DC) vs. DCC technology will be a big initial decision for you to make.

It's quite common to start your "dream" small, with a smaller track layout. It many ways, it's best to run with a small layout for a while, to get familiar with how things work, how you like to maneuver your trains, scenery preferences, etc. All good info learned over time, such that you'll be better armed with happy decisions when the time comes to expand your railroad empire!

Hope this helps a bit,

TJ


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

FYI....NS is Nickel Silver

Model Railroader magazine did an entire detailed build with the Kato unitrack. They did cork under the ez-track to deaden the sound.

Here's a link.

http://mrr.trains.com/en/sitecore/c.../01/Building the N scale Salt Lake Route.aspx

I liked the freedom of flex track to trim to length and have curves going wherever I wanted to.


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## nunlef (Nov 30, 2010)

thanks so much for all the advice/help.

The flex track idea appeals to me more. I didn't even know about the pre-mounted tracks until yesterday, I thought maybe it was a better technology - although most of the fancy layouts I've seen (youtube, and this site) are using the flex kind.

The goal would be to set up a more simple railway, then let the kids go crazy with the decorations (I have a feeling there will be plastic army guys, pink horses, and the "malibu barbie" I saw mentioned here on another post). The rail system will be my masterpiece, the decor will be the kids'. 

I am allowing for a 4'x8' layout (sheet of plywood), so I would stick with the HO scale, seems to be the right middle ground as far as size goes.

I have seen the brand "Atlas" most frequently, and I have also heard that the nickel silver is the material to go with. I'm guessing I will be ordering a little of that soon so that I at least have an idea of space requirements.

Thanks so much again, you will likely be seeing more dumb questions from me in the upcoming months.

Also, TJ, ummm, you know most of that went right over my head. I will have to read it a few more times, then have my husband go over it, then read it again. I have a feeling I will appreciate the wisdom in your post after that. I just learned what ballast was last night, and "turnout" was today. Baby steps for me.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Just a word of advice on turnouts. Use the largest ones you can when possible. They will cause fewer derailing incidents. With the exception of in yards I avoid the snap witches. They are actually slightly less than an 18r turn. I have had issues using them with 6 axle locos and larger at anything over a slow pace.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

nunlef said:


> thanks so much for all the advice/help.
> 
> The flex track idea appeals to me more. I didn't even know about the pre-mounted tracks until yesterday, I thought maybe it was a better technology - although most of the fancy layouts I've seen (youtube, and this site) are using the flex kind.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the site.
check out the size comparison of different scales here.
http://www.4thr.org/lounge/rail/info.htm

Want to get more confused?
Some Rail Road definitions for you.

http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/defs.html

More confused?
Model Rail road terms, click on the letter of the term in question

http://modeltrains.about.com/od/amodelrailroadterms/A_Model_Railroad_Terms.htm

This one is easier to use a definition so when someone tells you something and you don't understand anything they say maybe you can decipher it in here.

http://www.hrtrains.com/glossery.html

Example above this post he told you about the turnout. Maybe you didn't know what that was so go there and click T under turnout you will find this,
*Turnout *– A switch; European term for switch. A piece of track that allows a train to go from one track to another. Referred to by number. For example, a no. 6 turnout spreads one foot for each six feet of forward travel measured from the frog.

Little by little you will learn how to decipher all.

hope this helps you a little. 

In understanding, 
What the heck are they trying telling me?:laugh:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I just looked at my above links and determined that they won't help you much here.

Does anyone know of a site for layman terms so she will know what the heck you are trying to tell her?:laugh:

I can't find any?


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## nunlef (Nov 30, 2010)

Actually, all of those sites are really helpful. I tend to obsess, and the more information I have, the happier I am. My husband loves that about me. 

I'm just hoping someone will tell me that it took them a few months to learn everything, I'm guessing the terms alone will occupy my every intellectual effort for the next 3-4 months at least


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

nunlef said:


> I'm just hoping someone will tell me that it took them a few months to learn everything ...


Been here a year, and still learning a bit more every day. That's what makes it fun, I think.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

nunlef said:


> Actually, all of those sites are really helpful. I tend to obsess, and the more information I have, the happier I am. My husband loves that about me.
> 
> I'm just hoping someone will tell me that it took them a few months to learn everything, I'm guessing the terms alone will occupy my every intellectual effort for the next 3-4 months at least


Took more then a few months. More like years!

And I don't care how much someone knows, they can all ways learn something else.

I have seen definitions for the new MODEL rail road'er. 

The lists I posted might help you some but are really made for a real RR definitions. Some of them can be applied in Modeling.

I am keeping my eye open for them, if I find them I will post. 
They will help more then you here.
A lot are in the same boat (train) as you.


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## Smokestack Lightning (Oct 31, 2010)

Even though I model HO. I would go with N scale on a 4x8. I have my HO set up on a 4x8 while I build the real set up and you can't fit much more than a simple loop which is mind numbing even for my 4 year old.


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## nunlef (Nov 30, 2010)

Well, hopefully I can learn at least enough to sound like I know Something before the one year point 

I'm wanting my kids to be able to operate the system, I think N may be a little small. The oldest is only 8, and he has a few issues that make handling smaller things difficult. The girls are younger, and they haven't quite developed the coordination for itty bitty things. 

We had an Acela model, and they broke the couplers (see, learning already  ) off that thing in NO time. I'm actually reconsidering the HO, and may just stick with O for the time being. I would still slowly work on a HO, but I don't think I'll push the deadline too much.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

nunlef said:


> Well, hopefully I can learn at least enough to sound like I know Something before the one year point
> 
> I'm wanting my kids to be able to operate the system, I think N may be a little small. The oldest is only 8, and he has a few issues that make handling smaller things difficult. The girls are younger, and they haven't quite developed the coordination for itty bitty things.
> 
> We had an Acela model, and they broke the couplers (see, learning already  ) off that thing in NO time. I'm actually reconsidering the HO, and may just stick with O for the time being. I would still slowly work on a HO, but I don't think I'll push the deadline too much.



Yes you definitely don't want the kids to eat the trains!

O is better for little hands, are you planning on a table to put the O on?
How much space can you plan on making any kind of layout?

O can occupy a bit of room.
Though here is a link of some very nice "small" layouts that will keep the kids (and adults) amused. 

http://www.thortrains.net/

Click through the site somewhere there are some nice 4x8 foot layouts that you can add working accessories.
Log dumper or barrel unloader or what ever you find will keep the little ones (and big ones) interest. 

And let them do something too, not just sit there and watch.


8x8 better

10x10 better yet

30x 50 you got!?
Thats better yet.:thumbsup:

Heres a 3'x5' for O/27 trains.
From Thors site

Each red square = 1 square foot.

This small one, you can change the direction with a few flip of switches. 

A lot of small O/27 layouts you can't reverse them unless you go backwards. This one you can change direction by the turnouts. (switches)

Also it would give all the little hands something to do, assign one to a switch.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good info, Ed. I like that simple O layout, too. Great layout ideas on that Thor site.

Cheers,

TJ


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## nunlef (Nov 30, 2010)

big ed said:


> Yes you definitely don't want the kids to eat the trains!
> 
> O is better for little hands, are you planning on a table to put the O on?
> How much space can you plan on making any kind of layout?
> ...


1. I had planned on a 4x8, I still have to measure the area where we want it, and decide how much "sucking in" I'm willing to do when trying to walk around it. We also have the chance for an "L" shape design, but again, I will have to determine how much room we want to dedicate (A large drum set is currently occupying the space - I don't really want to move that thing upstairs  )

2. I thought "reverse" MEANT go backwards. 

I went to the LHS yesterday, and as it turns out it is JUST trains and boy scouts (which is great because we started a new pack this year, and I will need to be going there anyway) They have software that will design a layout, I guess I just tell the guy what I want, and he magically comes up with a solution. Not sure if I would do that, I'm sort of a DIY girl, but it's good to know it exists.

Also, do people really have 30x50 layouts? I don't even have a room in my house that big. At the biggest, we could do a 12x10 "L" shape with a table depth of about 32-36", unless of course I got skinny right quick, then we could add another foot onto that :laugh:
The store showed my a few 4x8 (2)level layouts that looked nice, I could make a 4x12 that would likely contain all the features we want.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

You'd be amazed what some people build....Here's some pics of one of my father's friend's layouts (in his basement.) I don't even want to know what he has into it (I'd estimate over $100K) What you can do is a matter of budget, space, time and imagination. This guy has over 1000ft of mainline on his railroad and it takes 30 minutes to run 1 train across the layout. The aisle in the first pic is probably 35 ft long (there are 3 aisles like this and 2 smaller ones - he also has 4 layers going around the room. That's my youngest train fan in the pics (just turned 4)

You can always start smaller and leave a spur that goes to nowhere temporarily to leave room for expansion in the future...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

nunlef said:


> 2. I thought "reverse" MEANT go backwards.


Nunlef,

Two types of "reverse", actually ...

1. Train literally runs backwards, as you suggest.

2. Train continues to go forward, but runs across a section of rail in the opposite direction as what it once did. This it typically achieved via building your layout with a "reverse loop", i.e., a twist of tracks such that as the train keeps going forward, it will navigate through switches such that it traverses a section of track in two different directions.

Cheers,

TJ


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## nunlef (Nov 30, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Nunlef,
> 
> Two types of "reverse", actually ...
> 
> ...


i thought that may have been what was meant, but it sounded funny to me. I'm guessing it wouldn't be a stretch to say that many people would create multiple temporary layouts before deciding on one that satisfies them long term? At this point I'm thinking to try each layout for a few weeks until one "gets me". i.e., I won't be warming up the nail gun anytime soon


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

nunlef said:


> At this point I'm thinking to try each layout for a few weeks until one "gets me". i.e., I won't be warming up the nail gun anytime soon


perhaps it can be somewhat individual but all successful and satisfying layouts share a common quality - purposefulness. meaning there is no rail that you don't quite know what its for. every turnout is there for a reason other then "well i had another one laying around" and there is an idea of how you going to operate it. think of what you want to accomplish, if going around in circles (and many love just that including me) your layout will be simple yet satisfying. if you more and into operations, you will need to think where from and to you moving what comodities, create several industry spurs and a staging area where off map commodities appear and disappear.

as is already stated you can use track planning software (ie anyrail) and play around with your allocated room to see what can be accomplished. 

how about you share your plans here and we will throw darts at it?

not to


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Take this layout, if you put the engine on you can only go the direction you put it on. (say left to right.) Or yes you can back it up.
You have to pick the engine off the track and turn it around BY HAND to make it go right to left.












This one you can flip the switches so that the engine goes the opposite way. 
Left to right or right to left just by flipping switches.










Though this one is small you can expand it by adding more track and sidings (for operating accessories) too.

Look through the site I posted there is a ton of layouts. (Thors)

First,....... figure out just how big you are going to go and build the base with some plywood on top at least 1/2". 

Then you can just make a big oval.
At least then you can get the train running around the oval.

A big L would work too.


Again,
First figure how big you can go. 
The bigger the better.:thumbsup:


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