# New to Trains. Pre-purchase questions.



## HobbyLifer (Dec 25, 2020)

Hello Train Peeps. I had a Lionel set when I was a kid, but am 57 now and would like a nice train set up. I am going with either HO or N scale due to size limitations. 
My questions are:
1. Should I buy a set or will that mean I am buying a bunch of stuff I will quickly outgrow? I know myself and I know that I am going to want some cool elements like multiple locomotives, maybe a streetcar and other things. I see the digital (DCC) controllers available and the ones with the sets operate up to 2 trains. I know buying the setup piece by piece will be more expensive, but if I buy a set then upgrade everything that is more expense as well, so my thinking is do it right the first time.
2. If I have something like a NCE Power Cab that operated 4 HO or 8 N trains, do they all have to be DCC equipped to operate? Would I be able to have an oval track connected to a smaller oval inside it and operate non DCC equipment?
3. Which of the sites out there are the best to order from? I am interested mostly in getting orders that are properly packed and shipped quickly. Price is important, but I am willing to pay a little more for a better experience.
4. Good quality locomotives and equipment... is there a favorite brand? Is there a brand I should stay away from?

Thank you for any input the community can offer. I want to do this right.


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## usmiladim (Dec 14, 2020)

Kato without doubt, you’ll never look back.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Buy once, cry once.

Don't buy a train set if you are seriously giving thought to staying and advancing in the hobby.

Selecting individual pieces will allow you to buy what you what rather than having a company throw pieces together you may not like or want. Often, sets contain lower quality toy fodder for the kiddies and that an adult serious model railroader will quickly outgrow.

You cannot mix DCC and DC power on the same tracks. Don't even think of doing this.

Buy a DCC system and DCC equipped locomotives and don't cheap out on this. It is not a cheap hobby to begin with and there is no sense in spending money twice. Be prepared for sticker shock when you start looking at quality equipment.

There are dozens of posts here describing the frustration and disappointment of buying cheap equipment and expecting it to run like a $300-$400 DCC sound locomotive.

Someone can fill you in on quality North American outline locomotives. I have no experience with any American Chinese made brands.

Roco, Märklin, Bemo, TRIX, and PIKO, are all quality German or Austrian brands still made there.


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## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

Greetings hobbyist and Merry Christmas.
I am also new at this using Kato brand track. Kato has started track sets that don't include a train,just track and a power controller. I am approaching the 4 figure mark and I'm miles from having the track down. I have chosen a BLI loco Paragon 3 dc/dc ready and am impressed with the performance and quality. I have purchased from Amazon for fast shipping but pay more. Most my buys come from a dedicated online hobby train store with lower prices.offering free shipping over a hun but they take longer to ship. Between the free shipping and lower prices it makes a $difference to me. The Powercab is in my plans but will have the layout working before I get it. Hope this helps 
🚂🚂🎅🎅​


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## HobbyLifer (Dec 25, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> Buy once, cry once.
> 
> Don't buy a train set if you are seriously giving thought to staying and advancing in the hobby.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info on the higher end locos. I will look them up and see where they are available.


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## HobbyLifer (Dec 25, 2020)

Spruslayer said:


> Greetings hobbyist and Merry Christmas.
> I am also new at this using Kato brand track. Kato has started track sets that don't include a train,just track and a power controller. I am approaching the 4 figure mark and I'm miles from having the track down. I have chosen a BLI loco Paragon 3 dc/dc ready and am impressed with the performance and quality. I have purchased from Amazon for fast shipping but pay more. Most my buys come from a dedicated online hobby train store with lower prices.offering free shipping over a hun but they take longer to ship. Between the free shipping and lower prices it makes a $difference to me. The Powercab is in my plans but will have the layout working before I get it. Hope this helps
> 🚂🚂🎅🎅​


Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and yours. Thanks for the info. I have seen the Kato track set. My expectation is to be around the four figures mark by the time I have the equipment I want. Building my scene will take lots more time than money. I look forward to that part very much.


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## HobbyLifer (Dec 25, 2020)

Of course, this being Christmas Day, all of this stuff is sold out everywhere...


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## cfurnari (Aug 2, 2020)

Yeah, I have a layout that I will be building. I expect the cost to be 5 figures, between the fixing of the detached garage, and the layout. It isn't cheap. Certain things, while I can kinda do it myself, I recognize that paying an electrician to do it right the first time, is probably the better option. 

In short, buy the quality items that works for you, and that you can build on.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

*Decide on a scale.*
I prefer HO. Consider that N may simply be "too small" as one ages, vision get worse, etc.

*Decide on "an era" and "a territory".*
Do you prefer steam, diesels, or "a mix"?
Any particular railroads you like?

*Decide on a control system.*
You already seem to be interested in dcc. A good choice.
Now you have to start investigating which dcc system to pick.
Most Americans will choose NCE, Digitrax, etc.
However, consider the wifi systems that use phone/tablet control, such as the Roco z21 (that I prefer), or the Digikeijs DR5000.

_side note:_
YES, if you go dcc, ALL your equipment needs to be dcc.
You DO NOT want to try running DC equipment on dcc power.
It can mess them up!

*Decide whether you "have-to-have" sound or not.*
dcc comes in "two flavors": dcc/sound equipped, and dcc/NO sound.
Sound costs more money - about $70-100 additional cost per engine.
I discovered early on that sound wasn't that important to me, so I look for "dcc ready" engines that have "a plug" in which to plug in a dcc (non-sound) decoder.

*Decide on what kind of track you want.*
Will you use flex track?
Or would you rather start with a modular/sectional track system?
I found that Kato Unitrack works well enough for me -- goes together easily, looks remarkably good for "just being sectional track".

*Start looking for equipment.*
Can be new or used, bought locally or "over the net".
If you shop carefully, you can begin piecing together what you like.
I wouldn't rush, think about what you want and eventually it will probably "come up for sale" somewhere.

*Brands?*
For diesels, I'd suggest Atlas, Walthers, Bowser, and older (new old stock) Proto 2000 engines from the Lifelike days (before Walthers bought them).

Good luck!


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## GeeTee (Dec 23, 2020)

If your looking for just a set to satisfy your curiosity thats one thing , if your going to build a layout , then chances are no one manufacturer is going to supply you with everything you need or want.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The 'sets' seem to be an easy way to get into the hobby but they are
not for those who intend building a hobby.

We are fortunate today that just about any brand model loco will
have quality innards...there are lemons from time to time but the
general line is dependable. The low priced loco likely has
the same motor and gearing as those with a big tag...you pay for
detailing...so if buying a new loco, if you like it's looks and can
afford it, you will enjoy many years of fun.

Several makers offer 'track on roadbed' systems. You are limited
in curve radius, turnouts and other track accessories of that make...they are not
readily compatible with non roadbed track or other track on roadbed systems.
Most serious modelers use flex nickle/steel track. It comes in 3 foot sections
that you can bend and cut to fit your track plan. Code 83 and smaller have
more realistic rail height...but code 100 is the most readily available and
possibly the most used.

You can save a lot of money when buying cars by checking our For Sale or Trade
Forum, Craigslist 'Collectibles' or 'Toys and Games' for used. And by all means,
attend any train shows in your area...you'll find cars there from 4.00 to 10.00. 
A great variety and most equipped with KNUCKLE couplers, some with
metal wheels.

Don


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## davefr (Oct 22, 2020)

I wanted to run both DC and DCC locomotives. DCC locomotives don't run well all that well on DC. DC locomotives that are controlled from address 0 DCC controllers don't operate that well. It's also not good to leave DC locomotives left on tracks where DCC is powered.

As long as you don't want to run both at the same time, just make a simple DPDT 3 position switch to power your track from DC or DCC.

There's a ton of great DC locomotives out there and they're a lot cheaper then DCC. Have the best of both worlds.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The problem with a switch is that you might have left a DC locomotive on the tracks come back later and switch to DCC and run awhile until you notice the smell or loud humming. Go with one or the other. If you have to have both, make them separate tracks.


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## davefr (Oct 22, 2020)

Yes, you have to isolate your DC locomotives. I have a small layout and it's not a problem. I just run them into a siding and then switch off track power to the siding.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

HobbyLifer said:


> Hello Train Peeps. I had a Lionel set when I was a kid, but am 57 now and would like a nice train set up. I am going with either HO or N scale due to size limitations.
> My questions are:
> 1. Should I buy a set or will that mean I am buying a bunch of stuff I will quickly outgrow? I know myself and I know that I am going to want some cool elements like multiple locomotives, maybe a streetcar and other things. I see the digital (DCC) controllers available and the ones with the sets operate up to 2 trains. I know buying the setup piece by piece will be more expensive, but if I buy a set then upgrade everything that is more expense as well, so my thinking is do it right the first time.
> 2. If I have something like a NCE Power Cab that operated 4 HO or 8 N trains, do they all have to be DCC equipped to operate? Would I be able to have an oval track connected to a smaller oval inside it and operate non DCC equipment?
> ...


HobbyLifer;

The questions you have posed, are very common ones. The files below should answer 1 & 2 well, along with providing a lot of other useful information for the new model railroader starting out.

On question 3, mixing DCC and traditional DC control is not recommended. However it has been done, sort of. The important thing is to never mix the DC electrical feed from a DC power pack with the incompatible modified AC feed from any DCC controller, (like the NCE Power Cab you mentioned)
The safest way to insure this is with a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) electrical toggle switch wired between the track, and the DC power pack & DCC controller.
The track should be wired to the two center terminals of this switch. The output of the DC power pack to the two terminals on one end of the switch, and the output of the DCC controller to the pair of terminals at the opposite end of the switch. You will then be able to run your entire layout on EITHER dc, OR dcc, but never BOTH, by flipping the switch.
If you have some old DC locomotives, you can usually convert them to DCC operation by installing a DCC decoder in each locomotive that you want to run. It's better to run all DCC, or all DC, and of the two, DCC offers a lot more operating fun, with a lot less wiring.

On question 4 my favorite locomotive brand is Kato. I have never seen a poor running Kato locomotive, and I have many of them. My least favorite brand of locomotive is Bachmann. I will add here that I have had plenty of old Bachmann duds (years ago, that's all they made) and I have stopped buying that brand. New Bachmann products are reported to be much improved though.
I model in N-scale, and have for decades, so that's the scale I'm most familiar with. I'll leave the HO recommendations to some of our HO forum members.

Welcome aboard;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## usmiladim (Dec 14, 2020)

Lemonhawk said:


> The problem with a switch is that you might have left a DC locomotive on the tracks come back later and switch to DCC and run awhile until you notice the smell or loud humming. Go with one or the other. If you have to have both, make them separate tracks.


Good thought here. Always better safe than Sorry. Locomotives are not cheap.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> The problem with a switch is that you might have left a DC locomotive on the tracks come back later and switch to DCC and run awhile until you notice the smell or loud humming. Go with one or the other. If you have to have both, make them separate tracks.


You can also put a locomotive on the wrong track. If you don't bother to check before powering up, either method could result in a damaged locomotive. I also said using both DCC and DC locomotives was not recommended.

Traction Fan


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

I can only relate my experience to you. I just got into the hobby recently, though I grew up with my father being deep into HO trains and I had a couple trains sets for my kids when they were young. That must have worked because my second son suggested we do a train layout together. The only brands I remembered were Lionel and Bachmann. I did not have a high regard for Bachmann because all I ever had of theirs were trains sets for kids, and I regarded them as toys, not hobby level trains. 

We started researching what we wanted and decide on N gauge to get more track onto a smaller layout. We got lucky and went to a very good local hobby shop and got their advice. We chose Kato Unitrack because we could start with sets of track and then expand them later with individual pieces. This was the way the hobby shop guys advised us, and they pointed out that Kato sets are cheaper than buying the individual pieces and you will almost always need the pieces in the sets. At the start, we began with DC but we knew we would go DCC eventually (turned out to be quicker than I had thought). We ended up with three engines plus both passenger and freight cars. Two of the engines were DCC and one was DC.

You can run DCC on DC and DC on DCC. You will not be happy with the way either performs. The DCC on DC does not give you very fine control at all. It seems like it took half throttle or more for the train to start moving and it seemed like it was very little throttle control left, hit full speed by three quarter throttle. The DC engine ran great and did everything we wanted at the time. Then we bought a Digitrax Zephyr and rewired the layout to DCC. Now the two DCC engines run great but the DC engine would not go more than half speed. Within a couple days, we stopped using it and asked the hobby shop to install a DCC board in it (while it looks like an easy thing to do, neither my son or I felt confident enough to do it ourselves and risk ruining the engine or board).

At the same time, we ordered a bunch more track to expand the layout. That should come in this week and we will spend next weekend working on it. I would recommend looking at buying the individual pieces and the DCC to start with. Once you try it, you will prefer it. I did not mind going DC first because I ended up with two DC power packs. The Zephyr controller let me use those two as jump throttles so my two granddaughters can each control a train. They will only have the throttle and directional controls while I will have all the DCC functions on their trains on the Zephyr. If you do not have a use for the DC power packs, or your DCC controller does not work like mine, DC power packs would be a waste of money overall for you.

As another newby planning a second layout, I have a lot of questions still. But this is what I have done and how it worked for me.


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## brob2k1 (Dec 7, 2015)

@HobbyLifer ... I'm going to leave the DC vs. DCC conversation alone, a lot of people have already replied in regards to that but I did notice you mentioned HO or N scale and just wanted to say that picking your scale first is probably the most important thing you can do. I started HO and put in quite a bit of money but due to size and restrictions on turns I've switched to N scale. Pick your scale first, understand the radius required for turns on different types of trains. Whatever your power source is will work with either.


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