# Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformers



## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

I have repaired all types of Lionel transformers for a few years and recently came across a collection of Lionel Z and V transformers. These transformers at 250 watts and 150 watts were the predecessors of the ZW and VWs with many parts shared. Z's and V's were produced from 1938-1942 before WWII and resumed production after the war from 1946-1947. The transformer design evolved from pre-war bakelite knobs with set screws to plastic knobs on knurled shafts postwar. Also the control plates were brass plate with nickel plating with red and black letters pressed deeply into the plate and at the end of production thin aluminum plate with the graphics printed on the aluminum surface.
Photos left brass plate w/nickel plating Right photo Aluminum plate















On the early one with the brass plate you can see where the nickel plate has worn away revealing the brass plate.








Now I could leave this as is or I could remove the remaining nickel plating, polish the brass and clear coat it.
I chose to remove the nickel plating.
I rebuilt the transformer by stripping it down completely, cleaned and polished the case, replaced graphite rollers and power cord then reassembled. I made a jig to hold the control plate, set it in and used a 220 grit random orbit sander to take the nickel plate down to the brass.
Left photo before random orbit sanding Right after Random orbit sanding
You can still see some defects - dents and corrosion plus some remaining nickel plating.















Next step was to hand sand in one direction with a 220 grit sanding block.








There are some remaining minor defects but the plate looks pretty nice as is. The original lettering is left untouched.
Next it was coated with four coats of gloss clear coat spray paint and reinstalled on the finished transformer.








I had some fun but another 6 Z's and 2 V's to go. The nice nickel plate ones and the aluminum ones will be cleaned and left original while the not so nice nickel plated ones will get the brass look.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Great result!


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Looks great Kent. I am surprised the plating is as thick as it is. I would have assumed sanding would have removed it. Did you replate the area under the knob? 

Pete


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

Norton said:


> Looks great Kent. I am surprised the plating is as thick as it is. I would have assumed sanding would have removed it. Did you replate the area under the knob?
> 
> Pete


Heh Pete! It's been a long time.
I guess it's tough to tell in the photo but the final finish is a really nice brushed brass color. All nickel plating is removed. The original nickel plating is really thin which is a problem. The text is original as is.
Here is another photo


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Norton said:


> ...I would have assumed sanding would have removed it. ...
> 
> Pete


Yes. I've been polishing parts with a cloth wheel in a drill and jewel's compound. On prewar nickel journals, it doesn't take long to get to the brass.

And my next ZW will come from Tranz4mr. I already have too many tinplate restorations in the works


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

Mike
Prewar nickel plating is pretty delicate and if it was used a lot it looks like the original picture above with the plating worn off in places.
On prewar nickel plated parts I usually go very lightly with Never Dull wadding polish.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

It must have been the light in the first picture. The second shows the brass tinge.
Back when I restoring post war I picked up a couple of Caswell brush plating kits. They include tin and nickle. It lays down a very thin coat but it will last on surfaces that don't rub on something.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting idea, I have seen some of those with pretty sad looking faceplates, this is a nice way to bring them back.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A nice transformation.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The brass plate looks very nice. I have a Z with an aluminum plate that looks pristine. Most likely a reproduction.


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

I did the first one a few years ago and presented it to my TCA division at a meeting. A TCA friend had me do two last week for his standard gauge layout. This is the fourth one. It’s an easy way to make Z’s with ugly worn out control plates look better than an original.


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

Lehigh74 said:


> The brass plate looks very nice. I have a Z with an aluminum plate that looks pristine. Most likely a reproduction.


The only reproductions that I’ve seen are plastic sticker sheets that cover over the old aluminum or nickel plated panels.


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

My guess is that the units with the aluminum plates are postwar. Here is an aluminum one that I rebuilt today.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

Nice! I have one of these that came with a 1945 set I bought from the original owner. I’ll have to take a closer look at the plate.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

Finally got around to looking at the Z transformer I have, and it has the nickel plated "engraved" plate. I bought a 1945 463W set from the original owner locally several years back, and that's the transformer he had for it. So maybe these sets came with the nickel plated face plate on the Z transformer in 1945. Probably left over pre-war stock? No way to tell really. Wonder if anyone has a 1945 set with the aluminum Z face plate?


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

From Tandem Associates.


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

Interesting. I’m working on three type R 100 watt which were made from 39-42 and 1946. 2 have aluminum plates and the oldest is brass. Also 2 80 watt S postwar only with aluminum plates.


KBeyer said:


> Finally got around to looking at the Z transformer I have, and it has the nickel plated "engraved" plate. I bought a 1945 463W set from the original owner locally several years back, and that's the transformer he had for it. So maybe these sets came with the nickel plated face plate on the Z transformer in 1945. Probably left over pre-war stock? No way to tell really. Wonder if anyone has a 1945 set with the aluminum Z face plate?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The funny thing is your restoration has less nicks then the tandem *** page. Lol.


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2016)

Hello, thank you all for the detailed information provided for Lionel Z transformers!! As you can see, I have a Lionel Z where the Faceplate is in need of restoration or replacement. This plate appears to be fastened with round headed rivets. Can anyone enlighten me on the best way to approach this?? I considered turning the transformer upside down and lowering the faceplate down into a square bowl of EvapoRust. I have had really good results getting rust off of train track etc. Im wondering about ways mentioned to sand, etc. Im looking for recommendations on the best way to tackle this?? and any information about the year model of this Z. Thank you in advance for your help!! David


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> View attachment 567652
> 
> 
> Hello, thank you all for the detailed information provided for Lionel Z transformers!! As you can see, I have a Lionel Z where the Faceplate is in need of restoration or replacement. This plate appears to be fastened with round headed rivets. Can anyone enlighten me on the best way to approach this?? I considered turning the transformer upside down and lowering the faceplate down into a square bowl of EvapoRust. I have had really good results getting rust off of train track etc. Im wondering about ways mentioned to sand, etc. Im looking for recommendations on the best way to tackle this?? and any information about the year model of this Z. Thank you in advance for your help!! David


Sorry in advance ... have you read the entire thread from the beginning? Tranz4mr did a nice job on the plates. Evapo-Rust won't work as the plates are nickel plated brass or aluminum. Evapo-Rust will only work on iron based metals.

Drill out the rivets. You could try to replace them with small screws.


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

I would try to work the rivets up and loose using a sharp sturdy knife blade worked around gently under the edge. As Mike implied you could refinish it as I did or buy the sticker from a parts dealer and cover it over.


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2016)

Millstonemike said:


> Sorry in advance ... have you read the entire thread from the beginning? Tranz4mr did a nice job on the plates. Evapo-Rust won't work as the plates are nickel plated brass or aluminum. Evapo-Rust will only work on iron based metals.
> 
> Drill out the rivets. You could try to replace them with small screws.


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> View attachment 567652
> 
> 
> Hello, thank you all for the detailed information provided for Lionel Z transformers!! As you can see, I have a Lionel Z where the Faceplate is in need of restoration or replacement. This plate appears to be fastened with round headed rivets. Can anyone enlighten me on the best way to approach this?? I considered turning the transformer upside down and lowering the faceplate down into a square bowl of EvapoRust. I have had really good results getting rust off of train track etc. Im wondering about ways mentioned to sand, etc.  Im looking for recommendations on the best way to tackle this?? and any information about the year model of this Z. Thank you in advance for your help!! David











Thanks to Millstonemike and especially Tranz4mr, Im going to be able to restore this Lionel Z transformer faceplate simply using 220 grit sandpaper. We have begun sanding and you can see the results in the left bottom corner and middle of the faceplate. You can work around the rivets without removing them. I really appreciate this Forum and Members!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Personally, I'd be using something more along the lines of 400-600 grit emery paper.


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## Tranz4mr (Sep 3, 2013)

Are you sure those are rivets? I can't tell from youre photo but I've never seen a Z or V with Rivets.
The flates on the screw head are really tiny and are tough to see plus the top is somewhat rounded. You need a 5/32 socket or nut driver and press really hard to engage the screw and twist it out
Flat pliers work but can wear on the flats and make them even harder to see.


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## supwdat (Sep 30, 2021)

Kent is right of course, they are screws. Here’s some more pics if it will help.
After the refurbish by a commercial service, I decided to leave my face plate with the brass look.


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## woodsyt (3 mo ago)

20221023_103346.jpg




__
woodsyt


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3 mo ago




Lionel Type Z Transformer backplate






I am looking for info about my old Lionel type Z transformer. This one has a righteous hum that modulates as you sweep the throttles and I am considering a rebuild and prettying up the faceplate. Is there any info about this unit with numbers AND letters?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

__





LIONEL TRAINS Z TRANSFORMER


Identification details about the Lionel Trains Type Z Transformer that Lionel made during the Post-war period.



www.tandem-associates.com


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You can polish up the bake light with polishing compound, or buff it with car polish.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Lionel type Z transformer


Does anyone have a downloadable parts digram for a 250 watt Type Z transformer ?




www.modeltrainforum.com




Parts diagram and more infor.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If you look at the parts diagrams, the u is common ( outer rail) and the letters correspond to the dials on the front of the transformer. So each letter and a u will give power controll to a knob on the transformer.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Oh and the numbers are just another way to tell what knob corresponds to what output on the back. They are on the front plate above the knob. The letters are on the bottem. As for why 2 ways of identifying were needed, I have no clue. Lol.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Looking at the Z's schematic, I wonder … for two power demanding trains whether using A or B and C or D as the combo will yield the best performance (e.g., minimum voltage sag, least heat, etc.).

It's afternoon. I'm relaxing on a rainy Sunday. So I'm not in a mood to delve into the theory. But it seems to me that using different sides of the secondary winding will avoid doubling the current on one of secondary's sides.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I would do the 3 and 4, the largest dials, as they are the only ones that have mph calculations on them. I figured they did the hard work for us mike!


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## woodsyt (3 mo ago)

Right on - I guess I should have just asked if the Alpha-Numeric marking is unusual or rare? Sometimes odd marking on Lionel kit makes things valuable or lets you know which year. I can't find other examples with both letters and numbers. All the Type Z examples I see have only letters - or - only numbers


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Mine has both. And so does the diagram. So. I'll assume its not rare.  


woodsyt said:


> Right on - I guess I should have just asked if the Alpha-Numeric marking is unusual or rare? Sometimes odd marking on Lionel kit makes things valuable or lets you know which year. I can't find other examples with both letters and numbers. All the Type Z examples I see have only letters - or - only numbers


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Its probably only on the z, as I don't remember numbers on the back of others. But it does have the numbers on the nameplate in all the diagrams to correspond to the number. Plus, I had to take the picture from the bottem looking up or the nuts covered up the numbers. Yes, its temped up to the layout as it was the first transformer I had around last year. I dont have a second one to compare it to. The zws I think had diffrent plates for the diffrent years.


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## woodsyt (3 mo ago)

Gotcha. Thank you👍
While looking into fixing up this transformer I've seen a lot of posts about letters OR numbers, and then I noticed mine had both and could not find information about it and now I know why. 😉 It's a common thing.👍


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