# I know my limitations.



## Glenn A (Jan 10, 2011)

I have plenty of skill with regards to woodworking, mechanical and electrical. I have resources in the way of most any tool under the sun. I have also read through countless publications and web pages in regards to layout design. It seems simple to just build a layout based on a simple 4'X8' or similar with the list of track and a plan. But from what I read I know that is really not what I want. I have the perfect location for a nice custom dogleg shelf layout. However I know it would take me a year to figure out how to use the track design software I downloaded. My computer skill level ends at being able to post pictures. 

I'm kind of embaressed to say that I'm asking someone to design a whole layout for me and my son to build together. If that is off the wall feel free to let me know and I'll figure another way to tackle this project.

The size of the room is 11'9" wide by 15' deep. The entrance door is on the short wall 56" from the right looking into the room. The space I have is on the right side along the 15' wall. I also have the back wall of the room which is of course 11'9". The track width along the long wall should be no deeper than 30" or so.

I would like to run more than one main line. I would also like to have a yard with an engine shop,car storage and run around. My son and I seem to like the coal industry. But I'm open to suggestions. Of course an area for switching operations would be enjoyed.

I enjoy the landscape of upstate NYand PA as I spent summers there and walked the tracks with my dad. I would like to loosly model that area.

Any help with this layout is greatly appretiated. I don't intend this to become a contest but I'm open to anyones ideas.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

If you're not planning big elevation changes, just do it on graph paper. (Even if you are, it's not that hard.) Leave extra room around your turnouts (switches) so that you've got some wiggle room to go with. Once you start building, you'll have to shift stuff around a little anyway. Maximum 2% grade is a good rule of thumb (but you can go higher if you want to run shorter trains or multiple engines.) 2% is 2" rise per 100" run. Check out the NMRA standards for track clearances both between parallel tracks and for overpasses, etc. There are also recommendations for curve radii based on the cars you want to run. If you like the longer/modern cars 24" min radius is a good way to go, if you want smaller cars (under 50 foot) you can go down to around 18".

Put together your list of wants/needs. (length of trains you want to run, multiple train control at the same time, industries you want to service, etc.) 

You'd be surprised at what you can come up with on your own. People have been designing very complicated layouts without computers for a long time.

Draw the room to scale, put in the things you can't move. Pick up a book called "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" and read it cover to cover a few times. You'll learn a TON and quickly get an idea of what you want out of your railroad (no one else designing it can determine that.) Also pick up the 101 track plans book. Do some online research and see what people have done.

12' x 15' is an awesome size and you'll have plenty of options in what you can do. With a little thought beforehand you'd be surprised at what you'll come up with.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Glenn A
I'm sure if a layout design is what your in need of there will be plenty of help around here! 
You need to set the boundaries!
DCC Or DC?
How many industries?
How many spur tracks?
City, country, mountains?
loop or point to point?
What kind of controls, Manuel or electrical switching?
Do you want to piece it together or scratch build?
If you state the ground rules then you should get what you want.
I've designed allot of Western and North Western layouts and all these details will matter to you.
Sean


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Truthfully, I'd take a look at AnyRail it's VERY easy to use. You got to the forum and posted, so you have enough computer skill to use this package.


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## Glenn A (Jan 10, 2011)

I did down load Anyrail and got a start with it. I have the room layed out and some of the bench work, But truthfully it is hard work and very frustrating to work my way through it. I worked on it for a couple hours and ony got a portion of the bench work done.
I probably would be better off with graph paper.

It will probably be DCC. Running more than one train or even have more than one operator sounds like a win win.
Maybe just some slight elevation toward the rear for some depth. I like the look of a crossover but it is not mandatory.
I like the look of an old train shed with some spurs and maybe a scrap yard. Perhaps some old run down buildings. 
Elsewhere where could be a concrete plant that would need various materials delivered. and would allow for a grade crossing with plenty of construction equipment around.
Manual switches is fine by me.
Pieces would be fine with flex track on longer runs.
couple houses or cabins in the woods or outskirts nothing big there.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've acquired a couple of TMCC engines, and I'm trying to score the controller, still waiting for one to come along at a decent price.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

> I know my limitations.


Dirty Harry would be proud of you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0


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## kursplat (Dec 8, 2010)

how old is your son? if he's about 10 or older set him loose with your software for a few days and see what he comes up with. :thumbsup:


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Glenn A said:


> I did down load Anyrail and got a start with it. I have the room layed out and some of the bench work, But truthfully it is hard work and very frustrating to work my way through it. I worked on it for a couple hours and ony got a portion of the bench work done.
> I probably would be better off with graph paper.


Hey Glenn, 

Heck with the graph paper and track planning software... why not simply get a big box of snap track and put some together on your table once you've built it (remember to allow for being able to reach everything) ...and *run* your trains? 

That way you and your son can have fun right from the get go. 

That's what I'm going to do when my table is built. Already have a whole bunch of track and am *not* going to have a set layout until I've *already* run trains long enough to find out what I like *first*.

Once you see some track on the table, your own ideas will unfold naturally.

Manual hands-on turnouts for me, too... and manual turntables. Caboose industries makes really nice spring loaded throws that will fit any switch.

Greg


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## Glenn A (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm a jump in with both feet kind of guy. I don't want to spend the next year fiddling around and guessing. I want to see it build it and run it. I'm just having trouble visualizing the begining steps or the initial layout. I will give it a try using local resources, web resources and a coworker for help. 
My boy is 7 and the only thing he wants to do is run trains. His school and my house is along side the Local commuter rail. We get notes home from the teacher saying he has stood up in class to anounce when a freight train is running by! We'll get something nice built in the space And I'll be sure to post pics of the progress.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yea choo choo has a really great idea! 
I wouldn't even build the board untill you've set up a few runs of track and get a feel for what you want. most of us have been working with the trains long enough that we already know what we want (Even if we can't have it).
If you don't have the track yet you could buy some cheap track on Ebay just to try to get a feel for it.
I have another option, I have taken blue tape and run it around on the floor and gotten a feel for the track lay out and the table lay out. Then build the board, redraw your taped track plan onto the board, Then build away.
Sean


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Glenn A said:


> I'm a jump in with both feet kind of guy. I don't want to spend the next year fiddling around and guessing. I want to see it build it and run it. I'm just having trouble visualizing the begining steps or the initial layout.


Why struggle with visualizing when you can throw some *real* track on a *real* table and find out what you like *real*ly quick.  

Greg


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a 5 year old grandson that has the same instincts. He comes home every day to see if there's anything new on his 4x8 train table.  I'm using that to debug all the components for the big layout to come.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Glenn, keep in mind that, unless your chosen track manufacturer uses an elaborate connection system, the pins-in-the-slots track is very adaptable. When the curves don't come out in the right place or the straight tracks falls a lil short...a Dremel tool with a cut-off wheel can make things right!


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## Glenn A (Jan 10, 2011)

My son has the EZ track set up on the bedroom floor for now. Once I get some bench work in place we'll make a small loop on the side while the real layout is being built.
I'm thinking of using Atlas because both local shops carry it. But I will probably find the bulk of it online cheaper.
Later I'll try to post the room dimensions and bench work design I did on the the PC so far.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I use mostly atlas not because it's the best but because I have no problems with it being DCC friendly
Stay with the custom line turnouts and you'll have no problems.
"Atlas turnouts are already DCC friendly. Their new turnouts still have those impossible-to-solder-to frogs. So what do you do? Screw a small brass screw into the one of the holes on their frog and solder to that."
This is a really good site to help you out.
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_atlas_roco.htm
Sean


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