# MTH 44-tonner



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I ordered two Santa Fe 44-tonners when MTH announced them. Pat's trains sent them the day they arrived at the shop and I received them yesterday. 

*Overall summary:* a home run for MTH. These are _little _locomotives, yet they have all the usual PS3 features and Premier detail, except smoke, with surprisingly good and loud sound. 

*Comparison to the WBB 44-tonner* is inevitable. I post some pictures of both below. They are the same size. both are equally detailed to my eyes, the MTh a bit more faithful in dimensions and details perhaps (narrower through the body - closer to the prototype). MTH sound is much better and it runs a bit smoother, slower, in conventional. The MTH is much heavier (46 oz vs 37 oz) but both are solid and nice.

*Detail, paint, graphics:* is good, really good. But these were _simple_ small locomotives and there is not a lot of "stuff" on the loco body to model in typical Premier detail (as on, say, a Santa Fe Hudson) so that when you look at it you say "wow!" at the modeling detail. What is there is nicely done: equal or a tad better than WBBs. 

*Sound:* like I said, GOOD. Its louder than I expectedfrom such a tiny loco, and typical MTH diesel quality (very good dynamics, depth, etc). I fact, I like this sound a lot. It has a good deal of complexity to it and sounds like a tiny diesel. MTH's DD40 was on the layout at the same time and I fired it up too - the contrast is remarkable, but the 44-toner holds its own as to entertainment value. Nice sound of a small diesel doing its thing!!! In my opinion this is a lot of what you get for the extra money over the WBB 44-tonner, which are never loud enough for me, or "real" enough. 
Horn and bell sound pretty much like a generic horn and bell to me, but louder than WBBs.

*Smoke:* there is no smoke. It would be nice, but I imagine the smoke unit would have to displace the cab and driver. I'd rather have the nice cab and driver instead. 

*Running*: I run only in conventional. These do the 15-second (more like 7 here) wait while their supercapacitor charges, then rumble to life. Nice. They don't jackrabbit, in fact quite the opposite, starting slowly and building up to the set speed, and respond very linearly to the throttle. 
*
Lights:* are directional and good. My #468 had no cab light from right out of the box. It should, #460 does. 

The box is only a bit larger than for rolling stock. The smallest loco box I remember.








A small box makes the loco inside it look bigger!








Nice looking locos, even though I am not a fan of Santa Fe's Blue and Yellow!








*Important to Me:* in conventional the two locos coordinate and answer the throttle with perfect coordination: both change direction without confusion when I hit the button, and both run at nearly identical speeds. Here you see them running around the loop at a scale 25 mph, uncoupled. In one orbit of mainline 1 (135 feet) 460 put a bit more than 2 feet on #468: they run within about 2% of the same speed. Nice.








468's cab light was non-working right out of the box. It's engineer will remain in the dark- I'm not sending it back for something so trivial, and I absolutely will not try to take these puppies apart!








They look good pulling a small Santa Fe train - Menards boxcars along with a caboose.








Here it a photo comparision: MTh (left) and WBB (right)








\From above you can see the MTH has a narrower body around the equipment, which I understand is more like the prototype, not that that is super-important to me. 








I AM VERY GLAD I HAVE THEM. THESE ARE SWEET LITTLE LOCOS AND SMALL. Four hundred dollars, with a discount, is a lot of a small loco, but they have "big loco" features and arejust solid, good little units. Fairly priced, if costly enough you want to think about the WBB locos instead, but for me, the much better sound is the reason to buy them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice review Lee, I'm going to pick up one of the PRR models. I was waiting to actually see it and touch it, but nobody at York had the PRR one.

As far as the cab light, have you done a reset with 5 bells and the whistle to see if that brings it back?


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Nice review Lee, I'm going to pick up one of the PRR models. I was waiting to actually see it and touch it, but nobody at York had the PRR one.
> 
> As far as the cab light, have you done a reset with 5 bells and the whistle to see if that brings it back?


Yeah: twice with it on the track (but the other loco off). Nothing doing. I think the bulb is bab, frankly, but again I'm not doing surgery in a loco that will probably spill its guts out the moment you give it a chance: stuff has to be crammed inside this puppy to fit!

I'll try to re-set i again with power on the workbench and take my time, but . . . I'm happy enough with it. Sweet little jewel of a loco. 

And by the way, 46 ounces in a loco this small makes for an impressively heavy, dense package!! It _feels _solid.

I ordered a UP one last week form the new catalog - at least I will eventually have one in a paint scheme I like!


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Can't wait for mine. Wife had operation Friday. Fed Ex attempted delivery but needed signature. Saturday I was committed to a shooting match, (fee was 175.00 to compete, no refund), again not home to sign when they attempted another 10AM delivery. Called Fed Ex up to make delivery Wednesday when I'll be home all day.
I pre-ordered the Pennsy.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks for the review and the comparison to the Williams model. I was very interested in the MTH unit when it was first cataloged...until I saw the price. I just can't see going over $400 for a tiny loco even if it is premier.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was impressed with how heavy it was when I hefted it. It also has two decent sized motors, so it should have pretty good pulling power. I did note that it only has one powered axle for each truck, so traction might be less than if all wheels were powered.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Thanks for the review Lee, will be placing a pre-order today with Pat for the Great Northern version. 

What type of switches were you running the little guy through. I have Ross 072 and Gargraves 105 on my layout, hopefully no stalling.

Bill


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## Agent027 (Sep 7, 2015)

Lee, you write some of the most fair, balanced and impartial product reviews I have ever seen on any train forum... and maybe even over some magazines. You seem to have a real understanding that comparing apples to oranges is not a helpful or insightful comparison.

Whether you are writing about a high end, scale product like this, a LionChief locomotive, a piece Menards rolling stock, or the RMT Bang S-4 or BEEP, you take into consideration the price of the item and then the features at that price point, and then make extremely reasonable and unbiased observations without sounding like a company cheerleader.

Nor do I ever sense any elitism coming forth from you reviews. Scale or traditional, conventional or digital control... again you treat all the different product lines very fairly. Even with this review, one could be motivated to also check out the WBB version, as you make assessments without being judgemental.

It is very refreshing to see someone who has the abilities to review entirely different product types, and assess those products realistically, based on the merits of that product classification. And when you do state your opinion, you do it clearly as just that, without misrepresenting it as factual. 

Bravo.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I am hoping MTH does some lettered for industries. Kodak had a number of center cabs, maybe 70 tonners but for me it wouldn't matter if they never had 40 tonners. It would still look good pulling my Kodak cars. Wouldn't be surprised if Ford or GE or many other companies had their own 40 tonners.

Pete


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Norton said:


> I am hoping MTH does some lettered for industries. Kodak had a number of center cabs, maybe 70 tonners but for me it wouldn't matter if they never had 40 tonners. It would still look good pulling my Kodak cars. Wouldn't be surprised if Ford or GE or many other companies had their own 40 tonners.
> 
> Pete



Ford had custom built 132(?) ton GE locomotives which had a bit more style than their straight out of the catalog counterparts..


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

This is actually an 80 tonner but its running at a local museum. Actual NYC Empire State Express cars in the background.










Pete


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## DMASSO (Jul 25, 2015)

This was my brief response the other day.

Just tested my New Haven unit. Ran fine. Sounds were very loud so I reduced it to be soft. Sound of horn is different, to me. I like it. I pulled 13 coal cars on gargraves track with 072 diameter. I only plan to use it for 3 or 4 cars. Nice looking car and I am pleased.

Don


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Thank you for all the cool comments. 

Some comments and answers in return.

The switches they went through were Fastrack O-60.

It would be nice if they did corporation switchers like Kodak and other companies that had them. EVen if not realistic, they have do do one in UPS, so Spence has one for his layout, too!!!!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Agent027 said:


> Lee, you write some of the most fair, balanced and impartial product reviews I have ever seen on any train forum... and maybe even over some magazines. You seem to have a real understanding that comparing apples to oranges is not a helpful or insightful comparison.
> 
> Whether you are writing about a high end, scale product like this, a LionChief locomotive, a piece Menards rolling stock, or the RMT Bang S-4 or BEEP, you take into consideration the price of the item and then the features at that price point, and then make extremely reasonable and unbiased observations without sounding like a company cheerleader.
> 
> ...


Very well said & I agree 100%.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Well, I've NEVER been a fan of the 44-tonner, regardless of railroad livery. To me it's the ugliest, stubbiest, weirdest looking diesel switcher ever made. But then, that's just me. 

However, Lee's usual and thorough comparative analysis and photos are great. So Lee, almost thou persuadest me to get one.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Thanks for the review Lee. As always, it was thorough and impartial. I got my MTH 44 Ton Diesel yesterday. It is a Pennsy (of course). I haven't tried it out yet. I will post pics and videos when I try it out.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Reason I'm getting the Penn version is that early in my career, our company rented one to move Hopper cars and tank cars into position by the Crystal and Bead impregnation unit. Tank cars to the compound unit, and bottoms in a "in Plant only" 1929 tank car to be burned off in the boilers. The 44 Tonner was a former Penn engine, (one could barely see under the repainted black paint, but it was there). The rental engine number in yellow was RU5656.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

EVen if not realistic, they have do do one in UPS, so Spence has one for his layout, too!!!![/QUOTE]
That would be nice but as far as I know UPS has not allowed the use of their name on any product since 2007. (100 year anniversary of it's founding)


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

A UPS version would be pretty easy to do if you can get some UPS logo decals. Primer, brown paint, decals.

Bill


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Lee, in looking over both models of the 44, WBB and MTH, I noticed a big differences in headlight housing, top of hood detailing, and hood grills designs. Different production models of the 44?


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

walter said:


> Lee, in looking over both models of the 44, WBB and MTH, I noticed a big differences in headlight housing, top of hood detailing, and hood grills designs. Different production models of the 44?


I suppose so. I'm not an expert. Both versions look "real enough" to me to be the actual, and I would not be surprised if there had been changes along the way as they were made. But I don't know. I'm happy with both of them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I like the look of both, but I suspect the MTH will be a better puller than the Williams, it's certainly heavier and it has larger motors. 










I think the only thing that might be an issue is four of the eight wheels are insulated by traction tires, that could cause issues in certain environments. Of course, only four of the eight wheels are driven, but they all have traction tires.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

GRJ, you raise a a good point with wheels and traction tires and electrical contact. The WBB did show some sensitivity to the point that my set (remember I did surgery to convert one of my WBBs of a calf and usualoy run and cow-calf combo) I installed a teather between the two, which fixed any roughness. 

The MTH run smoothly, or at least have so far. Maybe my track and their wheels/rollers are just super-clean. But I actually wonder if the supercapacitor MTH uses is also feeding motor power (via its boards), or else they have much bigger flywheels than WBB does (possible). The right size supercap certainly could back up motor, not just electrics, power -even just .5 second of fill in would smooth things out nice. 

I ran these some more last night. Just _really _very pleasing little locos.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Great post Lee. These engines have been in the works at MTH for sometime. Good to see they were produced and delivered.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The supercap doesn't feed the motors, it's just to power the electronics and sound. The motor drive is from raw DC straight from the large bridge rectifier.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

I got to test my Pennsy 44 Ton switcher last night at the club. I love this engine. It sounds great and pulls great, especially for a small size engine. It pulled 12 coal hoppers with no problem. Here are some pictures and an unedited video. One picture shows it next to the non-scale Lionel 44 Ton switcher.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The supercap doesn't feed the motors, it's just to power the electronics and sound. The motor drive is from raw DC straight from the large bridge rectifier.


I thought it would be that way. The supercap packs I install in superstreet's carswill power one for up to 20 or more seconds, and they fit inside a car, so they would fit inside a loco easily. 

I figure they would power two larger can motors for about 2 seconds before being discharged. Enough to give near totally uimmunity to poor-contact erratic behavior. It would be an option I wish someone (at the factory) would consider. It would make small locos with limited numbers of wheels (BEEP, Porter) completely immune to poor-contact issues. I won't do it myself. My experience trying to cram everything back in a Legacy U30C taught me not to take apart of premium engine unless it really needs help! But . . . 

A downside with my 'Streets vehicles is this: they don't stop when you shut off the power: I have an early Hudson hump-back that will run about ten feet, slowly, after the power is removed before coming to a stop, as the supercap discharges into the motor!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee, if those Streets units were command control, you could have the caps and still stop them when you wanted to. 

I'm considering looking into using Super-Caps on the power supply of the ERR Cruise Commander Lite. For small stuff, as you say, it would be nice to be immune to brief power interrupts.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

While the 44 Ton is not on my radar, I learned a lot from your review, Lee! Great work! John, I always appreciate your insight on engines and control. Pat, the video is great! All said, if I was looking for a diesel switcher, this would be the one; in Western Maryland livery I think!


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Mark Boyce said:


> While the 44 Ton is not on my radar, I learned a lot from your review, Lee! Great work! John, I always appreciate your insight on engines and control. Pat, the video is great! All said, if I was looking for a diesel switcher, this would be the one; in Western Maryland livery I think!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dealer, Model Train stuff, has 4 in stock, WM discounted to 399.95


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Walter, You know how to tempt a guy!! lol I just bought a B&LE F7 for $15 less a week and a half ago. The only bought new by me engine I own. 


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