# Gutting a Rivarossi Big Boy for the first time



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

This was originally mine from back in the day and had little run time, mostly due to having a 4'*8' layout

Appear to be the latest version with the motor in the cab. Going off memory I would have gotten it late late 80's early 90's range-ish?????

So yesterday after completing who knows how many of the have to do tasks of the day my 3 yr old and I sat down to tackle this thing. It would still run, almost decently except for a high starting speed. Relatively straight forward, especially when an idiot remembers to find that screw under the firebox Boiler came right off then......

First up I cleaned everything off the top. Cleaned and lubed the motor best possible and ran it in for 30 minutes in each direction. Gear boxes...ugh! Took apart the ones on top held down by the 2 screws each. That involved scraping hardened what I assumed passed for grease back in the day from each of them before further cleaning. Little bit of rubbing alcohol and Q-tips are your friend here.

Eventually I even flipped her over and removed the covers for the bottom of the drivers(which I did not remove, did not want a quartering issue). Nasty gunk from the top gearboxes was not there. So either it wasn't used on the bottom driver gearbox or had long since ran out. Cleaned everything best possible(worm and drive gears accessible with a little work) and used some LaBelle 102 lightly on it and put it back together.

Final result:
Got rid of the drive line vibration(seemed mostly from the motor), definitely a huge decrease in gear box rotation force and same for the driver gearbox(to a lesser extent).
Much lower starting speed and when running it is pretty darned smooth.

Current issues:
I still think the starting speed is a little too high for my tastes and it seems that it is aggravated when reversing. (disclaimer I have no real way of testing locomotives other than a garbage Tyco controller and about 4-5 pieces of straight track at the house)

Original drive line connection pieces seem to be worse for the wear with slop and age related issues. Hard plastic with a slot in between the motor/gearboxes.

Thoughts:

Possible motor replacement using a Cannon EN22

Replacing drive line connectors with u-joints, NWSL or A-Line to take some slop out of the system and quiet it down some more. U can watch the original stuff flex out of line.

Small o-rings under the upper gearboxes to lessen noise transfer(suggested from the guy with the collection of cab forwards)

Install electrical pick-up in the tender

Overall opinion:
She can be made to run again and I think pretty damned good with minimal investment. Wayyyyyyyyyy easier to work on then I thought it was going to be. Other than working slow since I wasn't too familiar with it, it was pretty easy. Work slow and pay attention.

Opinions, thoughts, critiques?


----------



## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Good Job!!*

Hey 3.8TransAM, Sounds like you got the Big Boy back in working order. I had the same ancient dried grease problem with mine and a UP Challenger and still have the original motors in both. Picking dried grease out of the gears carefully under a large lighted Magnifying glass can do a number on your eyes but I got it all. Used the alcohol, Tweezers and fine tipped swabs...but I didn't have a 3yr. old to help me. You should see if GRJ will move this over to the Need Your How To Section for reference as I'm sure some of the HO guys have a Big Boy on their shopping list. I like the Canon EN22 idea for motor switch out and the O rings for under the gear boxes if that reduces vibration and noise. Good job!!:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

I try and make do with what I have or the cheapest route possible to do something the right way since the 6yr old has dragged me back in(it wasn't hard).

So if I can make her run nice with minimal investment it will still come in under buying something new with DCC and sound from the factory. Besides that, it still looks decent and a Big Boy is impressive period.

Anyone have suggestions for the lighting? 

If I am doing anything I am setting it up to go the DCC/sound route now rather than later since I cannot run it at the house regardless((no layout, not even a test loop)just a short straight section). Also don't want to take it apart 10 times if I don't have to.

The 3 yr old amazingly pays attention, its kinda scary  He will be coming with his brother and myself in a couple years. The 6 yr old wanted to handle the Big Boy last night so I let him, he does a great job with the stuff so far, so it is what it is.


----------



## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have a cab forward, very similar internals except the motor is in the front where the cab is. The space in the boiler allowed me to use an NCE D13SRJ motor only decoder ($13) and an MRC Steam Sounder ($35) and a sugarcube speaker ($9). For $57 I have sound and DCC. In addition there are no wires to the tender. I admit that the sound is not as good as the Tsunami but then it is not near the cost. The NCE motor control is just as good. The trick is to set both of the decoders to the same cab number and they will act as if they were the same unit while you are running. 

To solve the issue with the higher starting voltage I adjusted the starting voltage that the decoder put out. From the user controls it appears that it starts at a low number. In reality it is started at an elevated voltage. One of the great things with DCC is this ability to fine tune the way the decoder handles the motor controls. This allows one to make an older locomotive's quirks disappear.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Anyone have any other motor choices that would work but will not hang out the back of the cab?

I am trying to get the motor a little less noticeable, then I know I can live with it


----------



## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

3.8TransAM said:


> Anyone have any other motor choices that would work but will not hang out the back of the cab?
> 
> I am trying to get the motor a little less noticeable, then I know I can live with it


Is your motor a square can or a round can? The version of the cab forward I have has a round can and is vary short. The amp draw is well within the limits of the decoder so there was no need to re-motor. I have heard (but not had one to verify) that the older square ones draw more amps.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

tkruger said:


> Is your motor a square can or a round can? The version of the cab forward I have has a round can and is vary short. The amp draw is well within the limits of the decoder so there was no need to re-motor. I have heard (but not had one to verify) that the older square ones draw more amps.


It's a later model round motor in the cab, before they went to the motor in the boiler.

Just seems the slow speed leaves a bit to be desired to me. I can live with the motor in the cab like it is, but if I'm replacing it, I want to tuck it in a little more if I can.(I don't know how some folks can stand seeing a huge honking motor sticking out the back of the cab)


----------



## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

I use a 12v falhauber (sp?) coreless motor in my Riv cab forward. Talk about pulling power and good low speed operation.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

rrgrassi said:


> I use a 12v falhauber (sp?) coreless motor in my Riv cab forward. Talk about pulling power and good low speed operation.


I found one slightly smaller than the stock motor.

Think that will be the route I'm going along with u-joints for the motor and gearbox connections to take the slop out.

Move the motor forward as much as I can I DO NOT WANT IT STICKING OUT THE CAB like the ones I've seen done with the canon 2624?(think thats the right number) makes me gag


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

NWSL style repower would put the motor in the boiler and completely remove it from the cab which I would like..............

Decisions, decisions.

I pathologically hate that motor in the cab, so removal or shrinkage of it is a requirement


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Thinking Igarashi flat can with one flywheel and turning the gearboxes slightly NWSL style and putting it all in the boiler.

Why in the @$#$% would I want it in the boiler and I have to replace the sloppy drive line couplings anyway.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Does anyone here have a few pics of Rivarossi steamer repowers with the motor in the boiler rather than the cab?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

No one here has repowered a Rivarossi with a motor in the boiler?

Just trying to see some installs before I go cutting mine. Not many clear pics on the internet that I can find.


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/model/remotoringbigboy.shtml


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)




----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10100


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=58954


----------



## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

3.8TransAM said:


> This was originally mine from back in the day and had little run time, mostly due to having a 4'*8' layout
> 
> Appear to be the latest version with the motor in the cab. Going off memory I would have gotten it late late 80's early 90's range-ish?????
> 
> ...


I have a question. When you sat you didn't remove the driver bottoms, what did you mean by a quartering issue? What is quartering ? I'm asking because I've never heard of this, and I don't want issues with mine in the future taking things apart. Thanks......


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

*the rods on the wheels get out of"QUARTER" AKA alignment its a pita to quarter them again*


----------



## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

alaska railroad said:


> I have a question. When you sat you didn't remove the driver bottoms, what did you mean by a quartering issue? What is quartering ? I'm asking because I've never heard of this, and I don't want issues with mine in the future taking things apart. Thanks......


Quartering refers to the alignment of the driving mechanism on one side of the locomotive as compared to the other side. One side should be 90 degrees out of alignment with the other side. 90 degrees is 1/4 of a circle, hence the term quartering. There are tools available commercially to help get it right.
Quartering is crucial on full size (1:1 scale) steamers because of their design. With the design of the piston and steam cylinder, it is possible to have the driving mechanism stop in a position where no steam pressure can be applied to the piston on start up. If both side of the driving mechanism were perfectly aligned with each other, it would not be very easy to get that steam locomotive to move, if at all!
Having one side 90 degrees different from the other side ensures that at at least one side can have steam pressure applied to the piston so the locomotive will move at start up.
Here's an article that explains it better: http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Wheel_quartering.html


----------



## alaska railroad (Oct 20, 2015)

Black z 28 &
Flyboy
Thanks for the info. We learn every day.


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

*so have we made any progress? ??*


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

*sooo did we make any progress *


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Not at this time.

Still weighing options.

Good decoder will run $100

New motor $25

Parts/pieces to make tender as a pick-up source $20.

Weighing the $150ish versus going after a newer Athearn version or the like.

I do enjoy the tinkering. I found all those links prior, but I cannot find someone who has pictures of a NWSL style remotor(specifically how deep to cut the weight). 

If I pull the trigger I am pretty much 100% sure I am going that route with motor in the boiler. I would be pretty pissed after time/effort/money to still see a motor in the cab

My free time is almost gone as I will be living at work for 3 mths on nights starting April 4th.

As I tinker I have no issues updating this thread with pics as I get time.


----------

