# American 4-4-0...



## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

Been wanting to get a little 4-4-0, but i keep remembering the old tender drive bachman i used to have, it was such a poor runner it got chucked at a wall one day lol.

Are the modern offerings any different/better?

I see they have a dcc/sound one now...

anybody have one?

How many cars can i realistically expect to pull with it?
my old one would struggle with three haha.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

When I was a kid I had a Tyco 0-4-0 with the motor inside the boiler. That little thing would pull every car I had (around 10 at the time?) and flat out race around the track, but mine was just a flat 4x8 layout so I don't know it would have handled grades. Later on I got a 2-8-0 with the motor and driving wheels in the tender. I was forever having trouble with the pilot wheels coming off the track and I don't remember it having very good traction. These days there would have to be a really good reason for me to consider anything that didn't have the motor and driving wheels actually within the loco rather than the tender.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

it looks like the new versio n has it inside the loco 






just hoping somebody has one..


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I picked up a Mahano (Made in Slovenia) 4-4-0 (Modern) NYC American. I installed a Digitrax 16 bit decoder in it.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have a 4-4-0 modern Bachmann spectrum with DCC and sound and it is a sweetheart
runner. I don't know how many cars it will pull. It is belt driven. Not gears. Very smooth.
I was going to pass on it when I heard it was belt driven. Did some research on it, great
reviews. I like it.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Some nice 4-4-0s...

https://www.trainworld.com/manufact...n-4-4-0-steam-loco-wdcc-sound-on-board-80128/

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/HO-Scale-4-4-0-American-s/1711.htm

You could look on eBay for the older AHM Rivarossi 4-4-0 s too. They were fairly decent runners for their time...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Po...943029?hash=item441586f835:g:Th0AAOSwj1haU5vT


Tom


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

The old Rivarossi locos were tender drive, and also oversize for HO scale. They also came with the big European wheel flanges. In addition to the Baldwins, Bachmann also made the Richmond 4-4-0's, modeled after the Ma and Pa's 3 locos. The current Bachmann old-time engines, as noted by Krieglok, are very nice and do have the motors in the loco, unlike their predecessors which had tender drives and didn't pull much.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Found the box that my 4-4-0 modern American came in it says it an IHC model.


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## 89Suburban (Jan 4, 2017)

santafealltheway said:


> ... i keep remembering the old tender drive bachman i used to have, it was such a poor runner it got chucked at a wall one day lol.
> .


LOL!! :laugh:


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

*Add Weight*

I built a Tyco General recently for nostalgia and found it slipped alone when I ran it around the track (semi-flat, the folding tables underneath aren't really even). I'd heard you needed more weight on the drivers, so I made a little hat out of a piece of lead sheet and sure enough, it took care of it. The problem is there isn't much room to put weight in one and I didn't want to take it apart, so I took part of the lead and added it in the 'U' of the bottom plate. I replaced the screws with Kadee coupler screws, which can be cut to length needed. Then I took the rest and made window panes out of them. It took a couple hours of careful fitting, but they don't look any worse than the black weight already in there. I cut a chunk to fit in the back too, just painted that black while the rest are blue. I ran it around and it didn't slip, then with three Civil War cars, then with an 8-car coal train, it slipped on that one but managed to pull it around the oval consistently.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

santafealltheway said:


> i keep remembering the old tender drive bachman i used to have, it was such a poor runner it got chucked at a wall one day lol.


I have one of those in N-scale...it became part of a small diorama that I built in a model car display box.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

Shdwdrgn said:


> When I was a kid I had a Tyco 0-4-0 with the motor inside the boiler. That little thing would pull every car I had (around 10 at the time?) and flat out race around the track, but mine was just a flat 4x8 layout so I don't know it would have handled grades. Later on I got a 2-8-0 with the motor and driving wheels in the tender. I was forever having trouble with the pilot wheels coming off the track and I don't remember it having very good traction. These days there would have to be a really good reason for me to consider anything that didn't have the motor and driving wheels actually within the loco rather than the tender.


I have both an 0-4-0 and an American from Tyco. the picture below should show why the switcher can pull so much better than an American, it's huge by comparison. I weighed it, 9.7 oz, all on the drivers. The American is only 7.7 oz after I weighted it, but maybe 4-5 oz on the drivers (the front truck is a bit of a wild card) originally it was a couple ounces less. also, the drivers on the 0-4-0 are 51" at scale, the General is 60", and the drive rod offset from the axle is the same on both, meaning the smaller drivers would have less torsion. 
I've included a picture of both engines next to the Dewitt Clinton for more perspective. That engine loses power through the switch frogs because they are longer than the wheelbase of the tender (thinking about that one...) I love old steam.


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

I have a brass one, not painted. Motor in the tender. No traction, front wheels like to jump off the track. I'm about to fill the boiler with lead shot to weigh it down. Or move it on to a more patient modeler. Good price to a good home. Pics on request.


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## T.C. (Dec 13, 2016)

MikeK
Whats a "good price" ?
Do you have pictures of your brass 4-4-0 ?
Thanks T.C 
[email protected]


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## mikek (Dec 29, 2013)

Here are some pix. $20 plus $5 for shipping, and I'll include the lead shot. PS, the headlight and the tender lights work.


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## T.C. (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes I will take it.
Mike you have a PM

T.C.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

Neat engine!


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## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

That model might be an ancient Ken Kidder import. Ken specialized in low-cost brass imports. Among others, he also brought in a 2-6-0 quite similar to that 4-4-0. He also did a narrow gauge 0-4-0T with outside frames that retailed for $9.95. I had one and it ran quite well for the time. Most of the models were models of, or based on, Japanese prototypes.


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## T.C. (Dec 13, 2016)

Package received 
Thanks MikeK !
This thing looks better in person, haven't fired it up yet, I figure even if it doesn't run I still got a great deal.
Wish I could find out who made it ?
Terry


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Short wheelbase locos*



Murv2 said:


> I have both an 0-4-0 and an American from Tyco. the picture below should show why the switcher can pull so much better than an American, it's huge by comparison. I weighed it, 9.7 oz, all on the drivers. The American is only 7.7 oz after I weighted it, but maybe 4-5 oz on the drivers (the front truck is a bit of a wild card) originally it was a couple ounces less. also, the drivers on the 0-4-0 are 51" at scale, the General is 60", and the drive rod offset from the axle is the same on both, meaning the smaller drivers would have less torsion.
> I've included a picture of both engines next to the Dewitt Clinton for more perspective. That engine loses power through the switch frogs because they are longer than the wheelbase of the tender (thinking about that one...) I love old steam.


Murv2;

Metal, powered, frog turnouts, like the Peco electrofrog, or the ones I scratchbuild, will solve the stalling problem. even for short wheelbase locos like those in your post. Electrically, the frog is just another piece of powered rail on such turnouts. Since you love old steam, you might consider it, at least for future turnout purchases. What kind of turnouts are you using now?

The photo below shows one of my completed turnouts. The white wire carries power to the all-metal frog. 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

traction fan said:


> Murv2;
> 
> Metal, powered, frog turnouts, like the Peco electrofrog, or the ones I scratchbuild, will solve the stalling problem. even for short wheelbase locos like those in your post. Electrically, the frog is just another piece of powered rail on such turnouts. Since you love old steam, you might consider it, at least for future turnout purchases. What kind of turnouts are you using now?
> 
> ...


I'm using Kato unitrack. I'm not as excited about laying track as building things, this keeps me out of that part of the business and unitrack looks presentable. I've been thinking about installing brushes on the drivers and running wire to brushes on the tender, then I don't think I'll have to worry about it at all. Eventually I'd like to get the John Bull and Lafayette, expect I'll have to do them as well, but that should be it.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Kato Unitrack turnouts*



Murv2 said:


> I'm using Kato unitrack. I'm not as excited about laying track as building things, this keeps me out of that part of the business and unitrack looks presentable. I've been thinking about installing brushes on the drivers and running wire to brushes on the tender, then I don't think I'll have to worry about it at all. Eventually I'd like to get the John Bull and Lafayette, expect I'll have to do them as well, but that should be it.


Murv2:

You're right. The more wheels & brushes picking up power, the better. What material is the Kato unitrack's made of, metal, or plastic?

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, metal would be a better conductor of electricity....


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Well, metal would be a better conductor of electricity....


Hee hee. Oddly enough, the frogs on manual switches are plastic, but the frogs on the automatic switches are metal. The rest of the track is soft plastic so it gives a bit.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

traction fan said:


> Murv2:
> 
> You're right. The more wheels & brushes picking up power, the better. What material is the Kato unitrack's made of, metal, or plastic?
> 
> ...


Thanks to your inspiration I went ahead with my project. the brushes were a coupler spring cut in half, with tiny screws holding them under the back of the engine. instead of adding brushes to the tender I realized there was a thin metal plate that took the power from the wheels and after trying and failing to solder the wires on I drilled a tiny hole through the sides and screwed it in. It's very fiddly and fragile, but the whole train is that too so I don't think it will be too much trouble. I could have made the wires shorter. If I wasn't saving up for a lathe I'd get the John Bull next paycheck...


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