# Entirely new...first step?



## Single Driver Steam (Apr 22, 2016)

Hello all! I'm a complete newbie to model railroading with nothing more than an HO starter set, some extra locos and rolling stock, and a developed idea for a small (micro really) layout. I have already decided on theme, time period, company name/purpose and have started writing down my list of "givens and druthers". 

Considering I have zero modeling experience except for running my grandfather's old Lionel set, what do fellow members recommend be my next step? I would assume to plan and build benchwork for my available space, but I don't want to overlook any important steps in the development stage.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I think your next step would be to download SCRAM track planing software and see what will fit on your size layout. 
It's free and a very good track planing program.

There is only so much that will fit on a "micro" sized layout. 

Magic


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Firstly welcome to the forum. Glad to see that you've taken the firsts steps. I'm assuming you don't have enough space for a large layout but don't despair a micro one will deliver plenty of operational interest if planned correctly. All mine are small 'shelf' type layouts and are great fun. If you want to look at more of this type go to: http://www.carendt.com lots of great ideas, you may have discovered it already.

If you're designing a small switching layout you need the b st most reliable track and turnouts you can afford. I use Peco who produce a line called Code83 which is bulletproof in operation and US specific. If you don't need to bother with planning software you can download templates to place directly on your board: http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans

Good luck.


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

Single Driver Steam said:


> Hello all! I'm a complete newbie to model railroading with nothing more than an HO starter set, some extra locos and rolling stock, and a developed idea for a small (micro really) layout. I have already decided on theme, time period, company name/purpose and have started writing down my list of "givens and druthers".
> 
> Considering I have zero modeling experience except for running my grandfather's old Lionel set, what do fellow members recommend be my next step? I would assume to plan and build benchwork for my available space, but I don't want to overlook any important steps in the development stage.


First thing is GO SLOW! Take time with it and LOOK at as many different layouts as you can find and STUDY them and how the operators run their stuff, LOOK very closely at the track plans that people are actually running on and scenery details on "completed" layouts. The urge to get running NOW is strong, I know, throw down a loop to keep the shakes at bay and start gorging on youtube videos and benchwork threads on various forums. GOOD LUCK and HAPPY ROLLING!


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

Single Driver Steam said:


> Hello all! I'm a complete newbie to model railroading with nothing more than an HO starter set, some extra locos and rolling stock, and a developed idea for a small (micro really) layout. I have already decided on theme, time period, company name/purpose and have started writing down my list of "givens and druthers".
> 
> Considering I have zero modeling experience except for running my grandfather's old Lionel set, what do fellow members recommend be my next step? I would assume to plan and build benchwork for my available space, but I don't want to overlook any important steps in the development stage.


Buy some books. You can get tons and tons of information from the internet using model railroad forums like this....and Google is a huge resource. But a couple of the very good "how-to"books put out by Kalmbach, Model Railroader,Carstens etc can really be helpful. It is also helpful if you let us know the dimensions of the space you have to build your layout in and some of your basic " givens and druthers".


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Since you are just starting out you might consider building
your first layout using modules, say 4' X 4'. Screw 1 X 3's
together to make them. Build as many modules, perhaps
even of varying size, as fits your space, then bolt them together. Why modules? You can easily reshape your layout when you
change your thinking. It happens to all of us.

But start with a track plan and built the bench work
to support it.

Be aware of different types of track. There are track
systems where the track is mounted on road bed. These
can be costly and limit you to using only turnouts and
other track accessories made by that company.

Most of us use nickle/silver flex track. It is compatible
with turnouts and other track accessories of various
makes. It comes in 3 foot sections and can be bent to
fit your track plans.

Our members can help you with all of your questions
as you make progress.

Don


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Just remembered there's a shelf plan in the May issue of Model Railroader - 6'8 x 1'3 which may be of interest. You can buy a digital copy on line.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Welcome!

You've certainly taken some good steps in thinking about what you want and what your limitations are. I'm in violent agreement with everyone else here: you're in the middle of the first step now, and that step is knowledge acquisition. Don't terminate this step prematurely. Yes a new hobby is exciting; a room full of stuff that you don't want or need because you ran out and spent a lot of money is a nightmare. Since I see you have already made some acquisitions, I hope you haven't already put a foot wrong here.

Once you've gained some knowledge about the hobby, and about the things you want to do, play with your layout ideas in an electronic sandbox for a while. SCARM seems to be a decent product; personally I'm a fan of AnyRail, and there are some true 3D CAD products that others like. It depends on your computer literacy and design skill. The big advantage of these products is that they keep you honest. You can't put 5 pounds of crap in a 2 pound sack.

DO NOT try to draw up benchwork until you have a very good handle on your design. The last thing you want is for your design to be limited by your benchwork. Sure, the amount of space you have will influence your layout design, but don't restrict yourself artificially by having a preconceived notion of what your benchwork will look like.

In this hobby, it's important to remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Each of us has products and techniques that we prefer, and there is usually no one "best" way or "best" product, just what works for the individual. 

And when all is said and done, remember the golden rule of model railroading: Your Layout, Your Rules. Everything we say is advice, nothing more. You get the final call, always.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Hiya SDS! If you haven't already stuck that trainset track on a board and run your new engine, you have a lot more patience than I!   You prolly won't need that track anyway... and you need a test track... Welcome, and Good Luck!!


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## Single Driver Steam (Apr 22, 2016)

I really appreciate all the advice so far, I have so many specific questions I may just post them to different threads. For now here are some basic details: 

HO scale 
Not decided on track code or type 
Available space: 3'x6' (NY apartment so I can't afford another inch) 
Operations: Continuous 

I know that most modelers would advice against a continuous layout in HO with my allotted space, though my trains are very small in size and wheelbase, so they should be able to negotiate sharp curves. That said, I will have to determine track radius.

I found this 3x6 layout track plan online that I am inspired by and may wish to recreate:










I would love to share the evolution of my micro layout over time on this forum, including a more detailed list of my givens and druthers.


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

Most stuff can take the 18" curves you will probably need for a layout that size but beware some of the bigger diesels and many steamers dont like em AT ALL!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That is a very nice track plan for a very small space.

Plan on 4 wheel truck diesels and the older 40"
freight cars and you will have nice layout operations. 

Passenger cars of any length would not look good
on those very tight radius curves.

With a space that size you may want to consider
folding or removable legs, a convenience in an apartment.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Single Driver Steam said:


> I would love to share the evolution of my micro layout over time on this forum, including a more detailed list of my givens and druthers.


Why don't you open a thread in the "My Layout" section of the forum to document everything?

Just one thought: If you were to create a fold-up layout, would that increase the space you have available? Not that the track plan isn't good, given the space restrictions. You could probably also add another turnout just to the left of the building at the top and get another, really short siding in there.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Hi SDS, I do like that track plan, but you may have noticed that it won't quite fit into 3' x 6'. One could possibly eliminate the "bridge to nowhere" and its spur. If your starter set has 15" radius curved sections you could use it to test out your trains... :thumbsup:


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## Single Driver Steam (Apr 22, 2016)

DonR said:


> That is a very nice track plan for a very small space.
> 
> With a space that size you may want to consider
> folding or removable legs, a convenience in an apartment.
> ...



The removable legs are an excellent idea, one that didn't even cross my mind. I definitely want the layout to be portable considering I will eventually move to another place, maybe even another apartment beyond that too.

Most of the benchwork I have seen was built with permanence in mind. Where could I find instructions or plans for a portable layout? 




CTValleyRR said:


> Why don't you open a thread in the "My Layout" section of the forum to document everything?
> 
> Just one thought: If you were to create a fold-up layout, would that increase the space you have available? Not that the track plan isn't good, given the space restrictions. You could probably also add another turnout just to the left of the building at the top and get another, really short siding in there.



Another great idea. I will document the progress of my layout over time to share with everyone. I will definitely need help almost every step of the way!




cid said:


> Hi SDS, I do like that track plan, but you may have noticed that it won't quite fit into 3' x 6'. One could possibly eliminate the "bridge to nowhere" and its spur. If your starter set has 15" radius curved sections you could use it to test out your trains... :thumbsup:



You are very right, though I don't intend to follow the track plan with exact precision. It inspired me, it represents something I'd like to do, but I'll make my own track plan later on when I more aware of what I need. Hopefully there is a free/affordable track plan software I can get my hands on.

That said, the curves on my starter set track are a few inches wider than 3 feet so I will have to buy new track (I would prefer something a bit more realistic than Bachmann's EZ-track anyway). Not sure what I should buy initially and what degree of curve is necessary to fit under three feet.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Single Driver Steam said:


> The removable legs are an excellent idea, one that didn't even cross my mind. I definitely want the layout to be portable considering I will eventually move to another place, maybe even another apartment beyond that too.
> 
> Most of the benchwork I have seen was built with permanence in mind. Where could I find instructions or plans for a portable layout?


Since your layout will be 3' x 6', it is already nearly portable. The top can be all one piece. You will simply turn it on edge to move it through doorways. Suggestions to make it more portable:

(1) Make the benchwork light weight. No 2x4 lumber needed. Use 1x3 wood for the frame. Make the legs out of two 1x3 boards at right angles. Use 1x2 wood for diagonal supports on the legs to keep them from wobbling. Attach legs and diagonals with carriage bolts -- east to remove.

(2) Make the top out of rigid foam board -- much lighter than plywood. I'm not sure how to best attach the foam board to the frame. Some modelers put plywood on the frame first, then foam board. If that is necessary, use 1/4" plywood to keep it light.

(3) When you start building structures on your layout, do not attach them with permanent glue. Use something that can be easily be removed -- like 2-sided sticky tape. Remove the structures when moving. The track can stay on the board.

(4) If you end up building a control panel, attach it to the layout with bolts for easy removal. Put a row of terminal strips under the layout next to the control panel. Every wire that crosses from the layout to the control panel should be cut and both ends should be attached to the terminal strip. Use wire numbers to label both ends of each wire. When moving, just disconnect all the wires at the terminal strips


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## higgsbosonman (Nov 17, 2014)

I am actually planning to build a layout almost exactly the same size as yours. I agree with MtRR75; don't use 2x4s or anything like that. I would be a little concerned about using foamboard as a top for a layout getting carried through doorways and stuff, because the top of the table provides a lot of the resistance to deformation. Of course, there is another layout that was being built by NAJ out of almost entirely foamboard, until he stiffened it up with wood (http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=73394), so its definitely an option. NAJ would be the guy to tell you how portable his layout is.

It really depends on how lightweight you want the layout to be, and how much strength you want. My plan for my layout is either 1x4s on the outside with 1x2 or 1x3 lumber for the internal structure. If I go 1x2, I was going to pivot the legs so they fold up underneath the layout and tuck inside, but this is at the cost of 1x3 internal braces. The top for mine is going to be either 1/4" plywood (heavier, but stronger), 1/4" OSB (lightweight, but weaker), or 1/4" hardboard (need to look into how this compares to the other types). I will be leaning more towards strength, because mine will be stored on edge on a dresser in my room, and won't be set up most of the time. It'll also be moved (and banged into things) a lot.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

For portability, extruded foam insulating panels can't be beat.

I have a number of 2'x4' dioramas constructed on 1" foam board framed with 1x3 pine with 1/4" plywood gussets reinforcing the corners. They only weigh a couple of pounds, and the only difficulty in moving them is not damaging the scenery and structures. The units themselves are very rigid and do not bend or flex.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

For a radius as tight as you will have, flex track
is your best option. It comes in 3 foot lengths and
you can bend it to your radius. You attach it to
your table with glue used very sparingly. Use 
pins to hold it in place until the glue sets. Try to
avoid joints on those curves. 

Don


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

First thing I'd do is set it up and run it! Get used to it and how things work. There's a huge gap between the dream, big plans, and reality. Trains derail, you always have at least 1 "bad" freight car, figure things out and see how it goes. 42 years of model railroading for me and still my favorite stress reliever is sitting there watching them go 'round and ' round, listening to the clickety clack of wheel on rail! Atlas nickel silver snap track for me, 15" & 18" curves even with double headed diesels and 3 car passenger trains. Remember: all the advice your getting is good, figure out what you like. Good luck and HAVE FUN


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## James (Nov 3, 2015)

Single Driver Steam said:


> I found this 3x6 layout track plan online that I am inspired by and may wish to recreate:


Newbie here as well and have been researching and was wondering if this layout would be good for N Scale? I really like it.

Thanks,
James Sontag


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Good starter plan. The siding on the left end will allow for future expansion.


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## James (Nov 3, 2015)

Thank you time warp. I really like this plan a lot, and it seems almost like a perfect N Scale plan.

James


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Possible improvements, but only if YOU want them.*



James said:


> Newbie here as well and have been researching and was wondering if this layout would be good for N Scale? I really like it.
> 
> Thanks,
> James Sontag


Single steam driver, and James;

The track plan looks good as is. Possible in either N scale or HO* scale. (*with very tight curves and appropriate engines/cars)
There are some changes you two guys may want to consider.
At the right side of the layout, there are two tracks that go to the same place. Why would a real railroad build two main lines, in sight of each other, and both going from point A to Point B?
It seems very unlikely that a railroad Co. would do that at all.
This "alternate route" idea, with two nearly concentric curved tracks and a pair of turnouts, is a staple feature of many track plans for model railroads however.
You could try to hide one of those tracks in a tunnel or on the other side of a hilly ridge. However that begs the questions "Why did the railroad spend millions on a tunnel, when they had a clear route available right next to the tunnel? Why did they build tracks on both sides of the same ridge? While there are odd, real world, track arrangements; somewhat similar to this, they are strange exceptions, and a model railroad looks more realistic laid out in track arrangements that are common, rather than unique. Instead of trying to create some sort of excuse for this track arrangement, let's think about a more realistic use for those turnouts and track pieces. One that comes to mind immediately; is a passing siding.
If the original parallel tracks are hard to explain, a passing siding is not. Every single track mainline has to have such sidings. Without them, no train could overtake another and a westbound train would never be able to get past an eastbound one. Try moving the turnouts to one of the straight sides of the oval. Then lay a parallel track that has an obvious, legitimate, purpose, right alongside the main. The turnouts for some of the sidings could branch off this siding, instead of from the main line. This would also match a common prototype practice.
Another possible improvement would be a double-sided backdrop mounted diagonally between the buildings and the two sides of the oval. This would give the appearance of the train traveling from one town to another, rather than just circling a loop.
These are just suggestions, not commandments. If you prefer to build a layout that strictly follows this plan; by all means do so! And have fun doing it!

regards,

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

I took the " double curve" on the RH end to be just what you mentioned, a passing siding.
I do agree that a passing siding, or passing track, would be more prototypical were it paralleling a straight rather than a curve.
However this plan, like my own layout, suffers in that it doesn't offer a long enough run to include the straight passing track arrangement.
I use the curved passing tracks on my own layout constantly, and they work out OK.
I agree that some kind of scenic divider, whether trees, hills, cityscapes or what have you are always a good idea.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

One other suggestion. You might want to go with Code 83 track instead of Code 100. Code 100 track is much taller than actual track scaled down HO size -- which looks out of place with these small trains. Code 83 track is closer to prototype track height.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Scale change?*



Single Driver Steam said:


> I really appreciate all the advice so far, I have so many specific questions I may just post them to different threads. For now here are some basic details:
> 
> HO scale
> Not decided on track code or type
> ...


 S.D.S.;

You have probably considered this before, and rejected it for your own reasons. Going to N scale, or Z scale would allow you to model more in your very limited space. Speaking of limited space, is there any way you can trade depth for length? I mean making a narrow shelf that can be longer because it uses up less of the room out from the wall? I don't know what you have available around your 3'x6' rectangle, if anything. My own (N scale) layout is only 16" deep in most places, but long. (It occupies two walls of my garage.) It is also of an unusual, "book shelf" design that combines trains and storage space share the same footprint. Trains inside the lower level, and books, (or whatever you want) on the top shelf. This double use of the same space might help you, or not. I'd have to know more of the room and furnishings to even guess.

Just some alternatives to consider;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpo


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Double curve to passing siding*



time warp said:


> I took the " double curve" on the RH end to be just what you mentioned, a passing siding.
> I do agree that a passing siding, or passing track, would be more prototypical were it paralleling a straight rather than a curve.
> However this plan, like my own layout, suffers in that it doesn't offer a long enough run to include the straight passing track arrangement.
> I use the curved passing tracks on my own layout constantly, and they work out OK.
> I agree that some kind of scenic divider, whether trees, hills, cityscapes or what have you are always a good idea.


time warp;

You're right, the double curve could be used as a passing siding. It would help to move the two curved tracks closer to each other, though. Curved passing sidings are by no means unknown on the prototype. They will fit them in wherever they can, just as we do.

Traction Fan


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