# my first European locomotive...



## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Just got my *first* European locomotive!...  










It's a 43 year old Fleischmann. Pretty beat up but it was cheap ($17) and it runs.


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

Can't beat the price. Nice loco.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

it is indeed very good price for this guy, some day there will be one in my collection as well. idealy i would want one made by Brawa but its quite a $$

BTW, just in case you didn't know this loco is E69


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Choo,

Nice. Great price. I have a couple of 40-50 year old Fleischmann steamers, and I like 'em.

Looks like you gotta incorporate some overhear power wires into that layout ... hint ... hint ...

TJ


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## andersley (Oct 24, 2010)

Careful, European locomotives can be addictive - before long you could have a collection.


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## jordysmeets (Sep 19, 2010)

Looks very good.
Normally I don't like electric engines but this is one heck of a good deal. 17 bucks why don't I get across trains so cheap and still so good..


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## Necro (Nov 19, 2010)

Do these kinds of loco's actually run off upper wires (or can they) in a layout? (I know they can in real life...)


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

Necro, they can be powered via catenary, but is very hard to build and the pre-made one gets expencive quick while not looking much.

as for real ones, well they run of overhead wires exclusively


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

jordysmeets said:


> Looks very good.
> Normally I don't like electric engines but this is one heck of a good deal. 17 bucks why don't I get across trains so cheap and still so good..


It went cheap because the listing stated that it was not known if it would run, so I took a chance. I figured if it didn't run I could either fix it or put the shell on some cheap 0-4-0 diesel switcher chassis. 

When I received the parcel, the return address was that of a consignment company, so it explains why no operational claims were made. I'm quite happy with it as it complies with my small radius capability standards. Since prototypical realism isn't a restriction, I'm going to put one Kadee on it so can pull around all the existing rolling stock, and maybe get a couple of those old fashioned 4 wheeled European freight cars for the other end to pull. 

Greg


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Necro said:


> Do these kinds of loco's actually run off upper wires (or can they) in a layout? (I know they can in real life...)


It can. The pantograph is insulated by the plastic roof, and the electrical pickup for the two wheels on one side is completely isolated from the chassis. So it would be a simple matter of linking the two. I won't be installing any catenary system as they are both fragile and expensive.

Greg


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

you best be carefull choo choo as the UK models have completly different couplers than US and will not work for US so you will either have to transfer over the couplers from UK to US or just buy UK cars that you can make even smaller than they already are.  :laugh:


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm going to stick a Kadee #148 on one side...

...so it'll couple up to *everything*.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

andersley said:


> Careful, European locomotives can be addictive - before long you could have a collection.


Thank you for your concern and your warning, andersley... 
...but, God help me, I've already become a junkie! 

Greg


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## jordysmeets (Sep 19, 2010)

choo choo said:


> I'm going to stick a Kadee #148 on one side...
> 
> ...so it'll couple up to *everything*.


that's quite inventive 
I only have 2 European engines (One not working ) but there is alot of choice in EU engines, I might even say, it seems there is more EU than US
I want an American one, though I will replace the coupler on both. since I still have no us stock.


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## nsr_civic (Jun 21, 2010)

hay greg if it has the euro style plug in coupler then kadee makes a knuckle coupler that will pop right in!


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Thanks for the tip, civic... 

I'm totally unfamiliar with European couplers. It's held in place with with a friction pin and centered with a flexible metal strap. I'll see if it will work.

Hey Jordy, 

I agree... there is a very wide variety of interesting European locos... with lots of little critters which are my favorites. I like the old fashioned look of the era 1 rolling stock, especially the ones with the spoked wheels...










They're going to be a challenge to find on ebay. 

I dismantled the loco for servicing...



















Quite unusual pancake motor and wormless gearing design. The ratio is very low and reduced 3 times from output shaft to axle. 

Greg


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Holy Reduction Gear, Batman!!! 

Either that loco is crawlin' at about 0.1 mph, or that motor is spinning at 10,000 rpm.

(Though I guess the bottom 3 gears are all 1:1, and simply transferring power to the front wheel set.)

Quite the interesting setup.

Hey, Greg ... Is the motor especially narrow? In other words, I wonder what led them to that gearing design, rather than a more conventional worm gear setup.

Neat pics,


TJ


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Holy Reduction Gear, Batman!!!
> 
> Either that loco is crawlin' at about 0.1 mph, or that motor is spinning at 10,000 rpm.
> 
> ...


Yes, *very* narrow...

The motor housing is only 12mm wide, while the armature is 20mm in diameter... sort of like a combination armature/flywheel. This configuration could *only* fit in a centercab shell.

And yes, all of the wheel gears are one to one as is the closest one driving the wheelset. Having all the cogs in the same plane is an extremely *efficient* design as there is *no* pinion worm gear tooth *friction* sliding perpendicular to the teeth on the pickup gear. Pretty cool design for a 43 year old loco. 

Haven't actually run it on any track yet as I wanted to clean and lubricate it first. I just touched two hot wires to the wheels to make sure the motor worked. 

Although the shell is plastic, everything else is diecast with two large diecast weights, one over each axle. Total weight is 10 ounces which is pretty heavy for such a small loco.

With the heavy weight and super low gearing, it should pull very well. My layout plan is really steep and winding narrow gauge style and not high speed, so small slow low geared locos are *perfect*.

Greg


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, Greg ... neat!

TJ


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## nsr_civic (Jun 21, 2010)

got a pic of the coupler mount?


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Sure... 










Here's a kadee #148 on the frame. Unfortunately, the frame member occupies the exact height of the Kadee coupler shank... so the coupler head would would need to have either an upward offset or a downward offset.










I highly recommend the Kadee #205 Multi Purpose Coupler gauge pictured. It's a very useful tool.

Greg


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Greg,

I've always been a nostalgic romantic at heart. But, I hate to tell ya' ... that relationship you've got going there is doomed from the start. 

They may tingle from excitement at their first embrace, but trust me ... they'll never stay together. 

TJ


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Yeah, it's either too high if it sits on top of the frame, or too low if it sits under it. I'm gonna try the metal Kadee #49 long overset shank coupler and see what happens. 










Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> Just got my *first* European locomotive!...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just bought that same engine last night in green for 18.00, they say it does not work but half the engines I buy say the same and when I get them overhauled they run better than new. I will take a pic when I get it this week.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey Railman, 

Yes, saw that one and didn't bid because I already had just gotten one. Glad you got it!  Your shell looks to be in much better condition than mine which had previously taken a trip to the floor and had smashed one of the bumper mounts by driving the metal bumper into it like a nail. Luckily it was repairable.

Did you see that other multiple engine auction with *THREE* of them? 

Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> Hey Railman,
> 
> Yes, saw that one and didn't bid because I already had just gotten one. Glad you got it!  Your shell looks to be in much better condition than mine which had previously taken a trip to the floor and had smashed one of the bumper mounts by driving the metal bumper into it like a nail. Luckily it was repairable.
> 
> ...


I bid on the one with 5 engines, did you see that one. What a great deal if I can get it. Sorry for your mishap with yours, Don't you know you can't eat and handle your locos at the same time lol.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

RailMan said:


> I bid on the one with 5 engines, did you see that one. What a great deal if I can get it. Sorry for your mishap with yours, Don't you know you can't eat and handle your locos at the same time lol.


A previous owner had dropped it or it took a dive off of their layout. Hey, I can eat and play trains.  I'm just grateful that it was minor and repairable.

Yes, that's the multiple engine auction. I won't be bidding, because it's *way* more engines than I could ever use. Good luck!  Groups like that can end up being *super* deals because of their tendency to be cheaper per item than individual auctions.

Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> A previous owner had dropped it or it took a dive off of their layout. Hey, I can eat and play trains.  I'm just grateful that it was minor and repairable.
> 
> Yes, that's the multiple engine auction. I won't be bidding, because it's *way* more engines than I could ever use. Good luck!  Groups like that can end up being *super* deals because of their tendency to be cheaper per item than individual auctions.
> 
> Greg


Can never have enough trains lol. I am glad that your engine is repairable, Some people model one railroad....I on the other hand model them all lol.


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

Hi Greg
Could you post your results with the coupler thing when your done, I just bought another engine 060 last night now I have 2 that I need to convert to Kaydee. I had done these years ago but honestly it got lost in time.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

RailMan said:


> Hi Greg
> Could you post your results with the coupler thing when your done, I just bought another engine 060 last night now I have 2 that I need to convert to Kaydee.


Would the 0-6-0 happen to be the little red "Carl" rack loco? 
It looked to be in *excellent* condition. :thumbsup:



> I had done these years ago but honestly it got lost in time.


Sure will. 

The Kadees are on their way in the mail as we speak. 

Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> Would the 0-6-0 happen to be the little red "Carl" rack loco?
> It looked to be in *excellent* condition. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> ...


That's the one. Should look good on my logging section pulling that 3% er.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

You know, this brings up an interesting issue of more than one person really wanting the same ebay item. Competitive bidding can *really* get the price up there.  Since we're both looking at the same stuff, I'll give you a heads up whether or not I'm going to bid on an item. 

For example I won't be bidding on the multiple engines which should help keep the price more reasonable with *one* less person involved. Did you see the rack loco passenger set? I'll be bidding on that one. 

Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> You know, this brings up an interesting issue of more than one person really wanting the same ebay item. Competitive bidding can *really* get the price up there.  Since we're both looking at the same stuff, I'll give you a heads up whether or not I'm going to bid on an item.
> 
> For example I won't be bidding on the multiple engines which should help keep the price more reasonable with *one* less person involved. Did you see the rack loco passenger set? I'll be bidding on that one.
> 
> Greg


I agree Greg. Sounds like a plan. I am not going to bid on the passenger Loco. Right now I will only be bidding on the 7 lot. I will let you know if something else comes up.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

well, i'm actually going to compete on that fleishy loco lot. 
but with several days to go i'm sure it will raise a lot.


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

tankist said:


> well, i'm actually going to compete on that fleishy loco lot.
> but with several days to go i'm sure it will raise a lot.


Will see, Thanks for the warning. May the man/woman with the most toys win.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

i'll correct - i actually will not bid untill last seconds of auction. bidding right now does not get anyone closer to victory anyways, and i'm not bidding just to bid. no point. once it's get closer to the end and the picture of bid required to win clears up then i'll decide.

but north american locomotives are of not interest to me, perhaps someone looking to split up the lot?


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

tankist said:


> i'll correct - i actually will not bid untill last seconds of auction. bidding right now does not get anyone closer to victory anyways, and i'm not bidding just to bid. no point. once it's get closer to the end and the picture of bid required to win clears up then i'll decide.
> 
> but north american locomotives are of not interest to me, perhaps someone looking to split up the lot?


Last seconds is the only way to bid other than the first bid to get your foot in the door.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

RailMan said:


> Hi Greg
> Could you post your results with the coupler thing when your done, I just bought another engine 060 last night now I have 2 that I need to convert to Kaydee. I had done these years ago but honestly it got lost in time.


The Kadee #49's came in and they work... 










I took a #148 draft box with no lid, filed off the back end to shorten it. Then filed off the bottom to make it thinner to limit the up and down motion of the coupler arm. flipped the box upside down, put in the coupler and brass centering spring, and glued the whole assembly to the top of the diecast chassis...










Mates up perfectly to my rolling stock. 


Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> The Kadee #49's came in and they work...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks good Greg, thanks for the info. I will be doing the same to mine.
Thanks again.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

It worked out so well, I'm going to Kadee *both* sides of the loco. As of now, I don't have any European rolling stock, so they'll be converted to Kadees as I get them so that *everything* can be connected together... 










It's obvious that I don't care about prototypical reality. 

Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> It worked out so well, I'm going to Kadee *both* sides of the loco. As of now, I don't have any European rolling stock, so they'll be converted to Kadees as I get them so that *everything* can be connected together...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same here, no rolling stock. Just done mine today, worked out great, I also added a small led light in the cab, kinda brings it alive.


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## jordysmeets (Sep 19, 2010)

choo choo said:


> It's obvious that I don't care about prototypical reality.


well glad it worked out  I like the idea of EU stock having the same US couplers.
I can't wait to get an converted us loco. (Hopefully around January if the snow is no problem.)


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

My* second* European loco is on it's way in the mail right now. It's a little Roco...


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

RailMan said:


> Same here, no rolling stock. Just done mine today, worked out great, I also added a small led light in the cab, kinda brings it alive.


Hey RailMan, that's a *neat *idea! 

What electronic components did you use to do it? 

Greg


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> Hey RailMan, that's a *neat *idea!
> 
> What electronic components did you use to do it?
> 
> Greg


I used a small led with a resister and soldered it to the brush leads. I like that new little engine you got there Greg, That would sure look great on my layout lol. Want to sell it LOL.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

choo choo said:


> My* second* European loco is on it's way in the mail right now. It's a little Roco...


I must have one!
how much did that fine peice of machinery cost you?


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

RailMan said:


> I used a small led with a resister and soldered it to the brush leads.


How do you get an LED to work with the current flowing in both directions, or is it only on when you're running in one direction?


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> I must have one!
> how much did that fine piece of machinery cost you?


Yeah... when I saw it I had to have one, too. 

I *really* like the small quaint old fashioned look of some of the European locos and rolling stock.

It was $166 +$12 to ship from Eurolocshop.com in New York. 

They had them in stock and shipped 24 hours from my order. I also ordered some European freight cars but those were all out, so I just got the engine. I've been selling off some of my other stuff to fund the new direction in acquisitions. 

Greg


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

choo choo said:


> Yeah... when I saw it I had to have one, too.
> 
> I *really* like the small quaint old fashioned look of some of the European locos and rolling stock.
> 
> ...


your selling your other small engines and cars how could you I must now go find someplace to cry:laugh:


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> your selling your other small engines and cars how could you I must now go find someplace to cry:laugh:


Come on, gc... it's not all that bad. 
I've gotten a lot of trains in a very short time and have been selling duplicate items so I can get others.

Greg


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

oh duplicates ok. what types of duplicates are you selling? normal size or shorty size?


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## RailMan (Oct 27, 2010)

choo choo said:


> How do you get an LED to work with the current flowing in both directions, or is it only on when you're running in one direction?


Sorry I did not answer you sooner Greg, for some reason I don't always get a respond email from the website. The led works ok in both directions no problem when hooked up to the brush leads.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

RailMan said:


> Sorry I did not answer you sooner Greg, for some reason I don't always get a respond email from the website. The led works ok in both directions no problem when hooked up to the brush leads.


Thanks for the tip!  I'll try that.

Greg


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> oh duplicates ok. what types of duplicates are you selling? normal size or shorty size?


Last weekend I sold a logging crane with a matching log buggy on ebay because I had three. I still need to take everything out to decide what goes on ebay this weekend. There's two containers that are way overflowing, which is why I've decided to limit myself to just what they'll hold with the lids on... we'll see how long this commitment lasts.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

whats your ebay user name. I think I might be interested in some of your things.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> whats your ebay user name. I think I might be interested in some of your things.


I'll pm you.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

I wanted to convert the couplers on the little steamer, and with a tip from another modeller, was told that Kadee makes #18 medium length undershank snap in couplers to instantly convert European to American "knucklers". 

So those hideous European couplers got popped out...









...and the #18's should arrive in the mail any day now. 

Greg


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