# Need help in new design ... New in the hobby



## tet024 (Nov 21, 2015)

Hi, 

So, what seemed to be a small railway model to be used for christmas decorations endend up a larger project which ended as a new hobby. :-D. Ended up doing researches about the locomotives. 

So for christmas i'm currently building a new layout with christmas a village. The area in question is 170cm x 60cm. Here is my question, is there a way i could make the rail go round in 60cm? any ideas with a design to make this work ?

Regards,
Etienne


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Etienne -- "Tout est possible dans ce meilleur des mondes" (Candide)

But you've set yourself a challenge. For a space that small you're effectively looking at N (1:160) or Z (1:220) scales. The tightest turn you can realistically do in HO is 15" (36mm) radius, or 72mm to turn around, and you don't have that. In N scale, you can fit quite a nice little layout in that space.

Are you intersed in just a loop, or do you want sidings and other track?


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## tet024 (Nov 21, 2015)

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. The guage is 00 becuase N would be out of proportion wit a christmas village.. I was was thinking if its possible to make the turn to go sort of an uphill so that the length would diminish. I'm rather stuck here :-( need a little bit of help. 


Would i make some sort of miracle with the flexi track ?

Regards,
Et


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

As CTVRR says 36mm is the bare minimum radius if you want a continuous loop. You might be able to go a bit tighter if you run a 0-6-0 tank but not much.


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## tet024 (Nov 21, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> As CTVRR says 36mm is the bare minimum radius if you want a continuous loop. You might be able to go a bit tighter if you run a 0-6-0 tank but not much.


Thanks, for your reply. Just a question is it possible to make turn uphill then downhill so that the turn would be elevated ?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You're really not going to be able to have much difference in levels in such a small layout. CTVRR will be able to give a more qualified answer on that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

CTValleyRR said:


> The tightest turn you can realistically do in HO is 15" (36mm) radius, or 72mm to turn around, and you don't have that. In N scale, you can fit quite a nice little layout in that space.


I think we should bump those millimeters up to centimeters to make this accurate.


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## tet024 (Nov 21, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> You're really not going to be able to have much difference in levels in such a small layout. CTVRR will be able to give a more qualified answer on that.



Thanks, What do you thing that this guy did because the first loop seems to be quite tight. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtc__nxtQSc

Regards,
Et


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I think we should bump those millimeters up to centimeters to make this accurate.


Sorry, got careless with my units.

Nevertheless, you won't be able to get a loop of OO in a space that small. The absolute minimum is probably about 76 cm, and that's going to be so tight that most equipment isn't going to run on it very well. Same with elevation changes. In order to keep your slope reasonable (under 3%, and that's a tough haul for most equipment), you need more room than you have. You might be able to physically form the track into something very tight or steep, but trains won't run on it.

If you can't find a little more room, consider setting up a linear track with an automatic reverser, so the train just goes back and forth.

Or you could dispense with motion entirely and to a diorama. I am doing a Christmas themed one myself at the moment.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I don't think that inner circle on the video is near as tight as it looks.


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## tet024 (Nov 21, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Sorry, got careless with my units.
> 
> Nevertheless, you won't be able to get a loop of OO in a space that small. The absolute minimum is probably about 76 cm, and that's going to be so tight that most equipment isn't going to run on it very well. Same with elevation changes. In order to keep your slope reasonable (under 3%, and that's a tough haul for most equipment), you need more room than you have. You might be able to physically form the track into something very tight or steep, but trains won't run on it.
> 
> ...



Hi,

Thanks for your reply. Very nice idea. I have a couple of point motors and Steel Points can I make something interesting to work on a couple of straight line tracks? Sorry for all the questions but i'm a week old in this hobby and i'm trying to work fast so that i could build the scenery with jablo and foam :-( Btw I'm good with circuits and electronics so technically i would be able to do something if i have a good guide lin.e

Regards,
Et


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Have a look at Carl Arendt's site http://www.carendt.com/category/small-layout-scrapb There are loads of ideas for small simple layouts.


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## tet024 (Nov 21, 2015)

Cycleops said:


> Have a look at Carl Arendt's site http://www.carendt.com/category/small-layout-scrapb There are loads of ideas for small simple layouts.


Thanks i'm taking a look at it now.. I'm thinking of making 2 line with crossing points so that it would be alittle interesting.


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## tet024 (Nov 21, 2015)

tet024 said:


> Thanks i'm taking a look at it now.. I'm thinking of making 2 line with crossing points so that it would be alittle interesting.


I found this... http://www.blocksignalling.co.uk/pdfs/25HF5Q.pdf 

Et


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Questions aren't a problem! We help as we are able.

I confess that I don't recognize all the equipment you're talking about. You can definitely do an X configuration where the train always stays on the same track. Not so sure about wiring an arrangement with a turnout. I BELIEVE I have seen it done -- a more or less Z shaped arrangement where the train reversed directions a few times before returning to its starting location.

I could be wrong, though. Electronics are not my strong suit.


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## Moonman MTF (Sep 28, 2015)

Here are some examples from track manufacturers with their smallest radius in OO.

It would appear that ~78cm plus some clearance to the table edge would be needed.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Moonman MTF said:


> Here are some examples from track manufacturers with their smallest radius in OO.


Of course they can make the radius as small as they like but wouldn't it be more useful to know what locos/stock can actually negotiate it without problems?


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