# Standard Gauge locomotives



## gc53dfgc

Does anyone know where you can buy standard gauge steam locomotives? also are there companys that reproduce these steam locomotives even in kits preferibly 4-6-2 heavy pacifics?


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## Boston&Maine

I am pretty sure that the only thing which runs on Standard gauge tinplate... Do you mean G scale or 1 gauge instead?


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## gc53dfgc

no no i mean the real locos you know the ones that are five times taller than you.


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## Stillakid

http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/


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## Boston&Maine

gc53dfgc said:


> no no i mean the real locos you know the ones that are five times taller than you.


Oh, _those_ Standard gauge locomotives :laugh:


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## gc53dfgc

thanks still a kid but do you know of any companys that will actually reproduce a locomotive like a heavy pacific 4-6-2?


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## x_doug_x

there are no such companys. you could prob. hire someone to replicate one, it prob,. wouldn't be operational and it would be a lot of money. if you wanted it operational you'd need even more money..... prob. cost 500,000 or more to have a contractor put one together in todays economy.


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## gc53dfgc

ok well does anyone know where one could get plans to said loco?


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## tjcruiser

Railroad museums?

Smithsonian in Wash DC ... I'd expect that they would have historic plans like that in their files.

TJ


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## x_doug_x

i'm wondering if this guys gonna try making one by someone elses plans in his back yard.

that would be epic!


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## Big Ed

Do you mean an engine something like this?


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## x_doug_x

big ed said:


> Do you mean an engine something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4662


he typed this
no no i mean the real locos you know the ones that are five times taller than you. 


he wants to build or have built a real reproduction heavy pacific.


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## x_doug_x

due to emissions laws and stuff like that, he would have to create some custom work to make it operational. like burning it on propane instead of coal or something of that sort.


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## Big Ed

x_doug_x said:


> he typed this
> no no i mean the real locos you know the ones that are five times taller than you.
> 
> 
> he wants to build or have built a real reproduction heavy pacific.


5 times taller then me? It would have to be around 37' tall then.:laugh:

Somewhere there must be someone who would if the price was right.


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## Stillakid

Maybe he wants to build a playhouse for his kids

He should go here...................

http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com/id27.html


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## gc53dfgc

not quite what my plan is. I'm kind of planning far ahead and dreaming realy. I got an idea to either buy a Pacific 4-6-2 and repaint it to blue comet paint scheme or if i have to make one from scratch. then i would either buy, reporduce or if mueseums do it borrow the remaining blue comet cars. Then somehow talk CSX and UP into letting thier rails be used for it. Go from coast to coast halling passengers so people can see what the old steamers looked like and even ride on them while going to a destination, but the real goal would to preserve the history of the Blue Comets history.

If that works and is profitable enough i would probably do other historic trains like the Super Chief, The Norfolk and Western passenger train, and The Daylight. Better to think ahead than last minute.


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> not quite what my plan is. I'm kind of planning far ahead and dreaming realy. I got an idea to either buy a Pacific 4-6-2 and repaint it to blue comet paint scheme or if i have to make one from scratch. then i would either buy, reporduce or if mueseums do it borrow the remaining blue comet cars. Then somehow talk CSX and UP into letting thier rails be used for it. Go from coast to coast halling passengers so people can see what the old steamers looked like and even ride on them while going to a destination, but the real goal would to preserve the history of the Blue Comets history.
> 
> If that works and is profitable enough i would probably do other historic trains like the Super Chief, The Norfolk and Western passenger train, and The Daylight. Better to think ahead than last minute.


WOW!

I would like to see your model trains.:thumbsup:
They must be made of gold.:laugh:

Great idea if you can do it!:thumbsup:

If I see a Pacific 4-6-2 for sale in my travels I will surely take some pictures and get some info for you.

Keep us posted if you find something, Please.:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed

Would you like one for your lower forty in the back yard?

Plans and everything. Check it out.

http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com/


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## gc53dfgc

big ed said:


> WOW!
> 
> I would like to see your model trains.:thumbsup:
> They must be made of gold.:laugh:
> 
> Great idea if you can do it!:thumbsup:
> 
> If I see a Pacific 4-6-2 for sale in my travels I will surely take some pictures and get some info for you.
> 
> Keep us posted if you find something, Please.:thumbsup:


no i don't think i'd like a golden model train just don't like the color that much:laugh:
thank you i would be very glad if you could find one for sale probably would save a lot of money and time:laugh:
It would be nice to have one in my backyard and drive it till i can find a real one 
plus could allways take it to CSX and UP as a model representation of what it would look like seeing as they probably have forgotten all about steam locomotives nowadays


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## gc53dfgc

here would be the one for my back yard. 








By gc53dfgc at 2010-10-12


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> no i don't think i'd like a golden model train just don't like the color that much:laugh:
> thank you i would be very glad if you could find one for sale probably would save a lot of money and time:laugh:
> It would be nice to have one in my backyard and drive it till i can find a real one
> plus could allways take it to CSX and UP as a model representation of what it would look like seeing as they probably have forgotten all about steam locomotives nowadays



I know a guy from another site that works for a railroad somewhere in Canada. 
They are restoring an old steam locomotive. He posted a bunch of pictures of the inside of the boiler.
Lot of work rebuilding one!


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## gc53dfgc

That's fine i would be more than willing to actually get to work on one of these bueaty's. Every time I look at one my head just turn's into a kids, i just love them so much and would love to somehow show the rest of the world them.


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## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> That's fine i would be more than willing to actually get to work on one of these bueaty's. Every time I look at one my head just turn's into a kids, i just love them so much and would love to somehow show the rest of the world them.


I would like to start with one of these for my back forty.:thumbsup:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/

-----

Check this out...you can post a ad for one.

http://www.railswap.org/

-----

Cool!:thumbsup:

Lets see if this link works,

http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/home/3037.htm


edit, yes it does here's another,

http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/home/narrow.htm

what a deal only $32,000

http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/home/3004_5.htm

95% complete.

-----

You got me all wound up now, but I got to get some sleep so I can do another 13 hrs tomorrow.

I will continue my search for you later.

-----

Hey Tworail................,

They got some cabooses too.
Check them out.:thumbsup:

http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/home/cabooses.htm


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## gc53dfgc

I think tworail should by this one
http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/home/9001.htm


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Heres one of the cars that would go with the blue comet. I wonder if it comes with the toy trains or not?
http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/home/4057_3.htm


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## tjcruiser

Re: post directly above ...

Great looking cabooose. Could be the new clubhouse for our MTF gang?!?

And the Pullman ... I wonder if that green shag carpet is original to 1926 ?!?!

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! This is bugging the heck out of me.

I can not find the right plans for what i want. I do not intend to build this engines any time soon maybe in say 10 years but I want to have the plans for a 4-6-2 Heavy pacific and seing as how hard it is to find in the model and real world I want to get them so they do not vanish forever.

TJ,

I tried the Smithsonian but all I got was the museum of natural history. I do not and cannot remember what branch a steam locomotive would be in. I also tried the library of congress with no avail.

The plans are great but they are for a 4-6-2 pacific not a heavy.

Does anyone know where i can get the correct plans?

Could I use the plans for a 4-6-2 Pacific and just change the trucks on the tender from two axle to three or is the engine itself different from a regular Pacific?


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## tjcruiser

For the Smithsonian, I was thinking (guessing) that maybe their American History Museum division might have loco tech info on file for research access. They have an extensive Transportation collection. If they have something on the Pacifics, you'd likely have to go through their currator department.

You might also try the B&O RR museum in Baltimore, MD.

And maybe peek around here ...

http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com/id27.html

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

Well I first looked at the smithsonian museum you told me to look at and only found a Souther heavy pacific that is on display. 

I then angrily found out that the model world has led me astray. The Blue Comet engine was indeed not a Heavy pacific ever. It was in fact a G3 Pacific class which had an elesco water heater and water scoop added to the tender among other things.

LiveSteam.com has the plans for a SP 4-6-2 P10 class. I emailed them to see if the G3 and P10 classes were similar and am waiting on a reply from them. I can not believe that the model railroad producers have continued to produce fake imitation Blue Comets.

Here is my proof.








http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc
Note the bogie trucks on the tender and how they only have two journal boxes per bogie truck there fore meaning they only have two axles per truck classifying them as a 4-6-2 G3 pacific. This is the 832. There was also the more modeled 833 (I have no reason why) there was also the 831.








http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc
Here is another picture of the Blue Comet 832 eninge.








http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc
Here is a 3d rendered Blue Comet engine produced by Trainz and NV3 games which is one of the major train simulators out there. This is the 833 which is also a Pacific G3. I am seriously thinking of contacting Trainz and seeing if they can give me or tell me where to get the actuall blueprints they used to make this stunning 3d engine that is true to the prototype.

So my question now becomes where can one obtain a 4-6-2 Pacific G3 class engine built by Baldwin locomotive Works? I have also been directed by livesteamtrains.com to look into cyclopedias of the era and I found one book from 1922 that is an engine cyclopedia and it does indeed have the plans for engines but i cannot tell if it has plans for the G3 Pacific. Does anyone know where i can find the correct G3 pacific cyclopedia at?


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## gc53dfgc

Feeling kind of lonely with just TJ giveing me some help here and there. Does no one else have anything to comment on or help with?

To help provoke some discussion.

Since all the know photos of the Blue Comet that can be found on the internet are only black and white I decided to make them color pictures using my knowledge of what the blue comets paint scheme was originally and using Gimp.

BEFORE








http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc

AFTER








http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc
I read that the original paint scheme was a white for the beachs of New jersey, light blue for the sky of New jersey, and a royal blue for the Ocean of new jersey with the sky on top and ocean at bottom so it is bassically the shores of New Jersey.
The Blue Comet also had golden lettering and golden pinstriping on the cars. I did the letters correctly and the bottom two lines that were pinstriped gold. I could not fully tell if the cars had the pinstripeing on the top of the windows as well but I think it looks okay. (comments) I am not sure if only the engine itself featured the three color paint scheme and the cars just royal blue and white but i decided to do the three color paint scheme on this car as well. If you could tell me what you think of the color that I gave it and what could be improved.


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## tjcruiser

That's pretty cool that you colored the image ... Ted Turner would be proud!

You should do a Google image search on "Blue Comet Train" and the like. I'd expect some good hits for clues on specific shade of blue. This site has some niice images ...

http://www.whippanyrailwaymuseum.net/eq_jerseycoast.html

I realize their colored photos are of restored / repainted cars, but their blue tends to be a bit softer in hue than your rendering.

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

tjcruiser said:


> That's pretty cool that you colored the image ... Ted Turner would be proud!
> 
> You should do a Google image search on "Blue Comet Train" and the like. I'd expect some good hits for clues on specific shade of blue. This site has some niice images ...
> 
> http://www.whippanyrailwaymuseum.net/eq_jerseycoast.html
> 
> I realize their colored photos are of restored / repainted cars, but their blue tends to be a bit softer in hue than your rendering.
> 
> TJ


I have already checked through all of google and have only found b&w pictures. As with most repaints or reproductions it is hard to get a color right when there are only black and white photos available and very little knowledge of the original paint scheme. From the book I have read only the blue comet originally had a three color scheme royal blue light blue and cream/white. the colors are a bit darker than I would have liked but this is color added over a black and white photo so I was not starting from a pure white as I would loose detail. I plan to redo this perticular car in several paint schemes and colors before moving on to the others. Suprised you did not notice how the first three windows seem blue and even while the rest are darker in areas.:laugh:

Also the cars avialable that are repaints that are in color are all cars that have sat out in the open for at least 5 years and have faded just like if the car I did was not done as a new car and as a faded one.


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## Fighterpilot

I've just got to ask...How're you going to cast the boiler on a full scale locomotive of this size and where the hell are you going to build it?
I've been a model plane builder for about 30 years and seems to equate to me wanting to build a full scale B-29 from scratch in my backyard.


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## gc53dfgc

Well I have a big ambition. My chioce of carrer will help a lot in it as I want to be a Mechanical engineer and work for either GM/EMD or GE motive divisions. I would be working with others who would love to see it be done so labor would be tooken care of and if done right even GM or GE might jump on board and help with the tools and equipement required to do it. I don't plan on doing it in a day its a lifetime thing. A B-29 is a good bit larger than a 4-6-2 Pacific and a good bit more complicated at least in my mind. I plan to sink a lot of money into it when I get older and that's fine by me because that's what I love. They rebuild and even make new steam engines of a bigger size today so I don't see how this is unrealistic at all. The people that built the Tornado have all the equipement allready built to make the boilers and other parts so I could possibly contract them to do it when the time is right. You can think what you want of this but I trully believe it can be done.


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## tjcruiser

GC,

As I've said before ... you are a dreamer ... but that's exactly what made this country of ours so great. I say: go for it!!!

What an inspirational thing to see someone your age with such devoted passion and goals. Well done.

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

TJ, 

To my knoledge boilers are not cast they are welded and riveted together are they not?
Also TJ I finally got some time to photograph those blueprints for you to look at and see what might be missing.









http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc








http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc








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http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gc53dfgc

These were purposely made to a larger size than normal so all detail could be seen.


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## gunrunnerjohn

If you really want someone to look at those, I'd arrange to get them digitized. You might be able to spread them out and take a picture with a 12 mega-pixel camera, then you can zoom in and look at detail.


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## gc53dfgc

these are only 14 inches long and 5 wide. I actually zoomed in on my camera to get closer tothe important numbers and details while still haveing it clear.


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## gunrunnerjohn

If they're only 14" long, you could scan them on a scanner with legal sized capability and email the lot, that would be a lot more efficient and useful.


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## tjcruiser

GC,

I am my no means an expert, but I think you're right ... a boiler casing would be a riveted (or welded, if modern) assembly of rolled plate. Tubes inside, like a heat exchanger. That said, I'm sure that many of the mechanical moving parts on the loco would require large-scale casting ... drive rods, linkages, wheels, etc.

While those blueprints do portray a nice overall dimensional layout of the loco, it's more of a schematic geometric layout than an actual fabrication assembly drawing. As I mentioned before, any mechanical item of this size/scope would entail a large set of design drawings ... a few would be "master layout" or "global geometry" drawings, like the ones you have. However, in addition to those, there would be a large inventory of drawings showing the fabrication details for each part and component of the loco. A drawing for one specific drive rod linkage, for example. Another one for a valve gear housing, etc.

This is just a guess on my part, but I'd estimate 50 to 100 detailed part drawings for a loco of this complexity.

Not trying to sway your enthusiasim ... just trying to clarify what you have ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

Hmm... 50-100 you say? Well these are the only G3 plans that have come up on ebay in months. were there any other engines that use simmilar parts that I can steal plans of? Could othe Pacific plans be used for that matter instead of just G3's?

Found a link to a steam engine boiler. Not sure if this one is the same type that the Pacific uses or not.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Montrea-Locomot...833?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c521a4d1


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## tjcruiser

Again, I'm no expert, but I'd stick with the 50 to 100 drawing estimate. The drawings (or blueprints) are likely somewhat rare things ... I doubt you'll find them in full on ebay. If they're available, my guess is that you'd have to go through some sort of a museum.

That said, that ebay link above IS an actual fabrication drawing (blueprint), albeit for a different loco.

I have no idea what locos may have shared some commonality in their specific parts.

Regards,

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

Thanks for the help you have been able to give me so far TJ. I remember reading an online news article about a 4-6-2 and I swear I saved the pictures from it as they looked perfect for the G3 Blue Comet Pacific. Well today I managed to figure out what engine and railroad use her. She is part of the Reading Blue Mountain & Northen. She is a very spify 4-6-2 Pacific G1 class. So I am assumeing I could lower my standards from a perfect G3 to a G1 which should be very very similar except for one or two things. I will now be planning a good time to head down their and take a mess of pictures and then maybe one day actually get to take some dimmensions from her and more detailed info about her. I am still hopeing to be able to find most of if not all of the required blueprints and who knows maybe we will just wing it from the available photos or make new blue prints for it as originally their were no blueprints for it until it was built really.

http://www.trainweb.org/chris/reading425trip.html


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## tjcruiser

As you get more serious, you should consider having the real loco 3D laser-scanned. There are companies that can map the shape of any object down to a tiny fraction of an inch, and create full 3D CAD models. It's not a cheap service, and it requires high end computer equipment, but it certainly yields very accurate dimensional info.

Regards,

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

Well I should have the high end computer equipment part of it tooken care of this year. Now as for the arm that they use to measure it and the actual program I would imageine a company like GE or GM would have that. (Tax right off). It is really sad that so much information on these great steamers has just vanished. Sure there is probably some secret US storage facility for it but most likely no one will ever get to see it.


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## sstlaure

Volunteer at a local train museum to get your feet wet on working on these things. As someone who restores cars - the idea of trying to restore or fabricate an entire 300,000+lb engine is no small feat. Not saying it can't be done, because plenty of people have done it, just typically they do it while supporting an established historical/restoration society. You seriously need to look at what functioning steam shops (like at museums) use to keep their rolling stock maintained. You will need even more equipment than them to fully fabricate/restore an old engine.


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## gc53dfgc

This i do plan to do. It is jsut finding a museum withing my capable travel distance and ability to have time to work at one. Definatly more of a summer type of thing. I would like to hopefully have a historical/restoration group jump on at some point later down the road but that time has not come yet I am just trying to assemble as much knowledge about the engine type as i can and save as many plans as i can and then work with getting more detailed info on them and getting other groups to help with it. That's my plan at least.


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## Gansett

What exactly do you have planned? A full size steam loco from the ground up?


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## gc53dfgc

maybe

Why is this to crazy for you?


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## Gansett

Crazy? Not really, I've built quite a few race cars from the ground up. But I have/had access to a metal fabrication shop complete with every metal working tool imaginable along with a fully equipped machine shop.

Go for it but you're going to need access to a lot of specialized machinery, a bunch of help too.


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## gc53dfgc

this I will work out when the time comes. I don't plan to build this in a day or a month or a year or even several. I still have three years of high school and four of college then a good job that I love then that is when it really starts. I figure I might as well plan and start now while there is still traces of the engine of choice still available rather than wait till when all the money is there. I mean I could go and buy a run dow or even a semi decent one right now with half a million+/- but I want to make a specific locomotive. One that actually had a lot of history that has been forgotten. Most people have heard of the GS-4 or the Big Boy well the G3 Pacific had just as major of a role as them but it has been forgotten by almost all. I can not tell you why or how this has happened but I can tell you I am determined to bring it back. It's not right that people nowadays only care about their cell phones and ipods and ipads and all this other stuff. I am okay with it and rarely text or talk on the phone I don't even own a ipod/pad and can say i am proud not to. I have youtube for all the music in the world and for free at that. I hate how people really don't care to do much in the world or even their lives. Most people just stay at their current not so great job and never do anything about it. I understand their are some that have no choice and I am fine with that. It's the people who do this and complain about their lives constantly and what do they do after work or in their freetime? Complain and spend all their money on technology that gets outdated in a month and then they have to have the new one go buy it complain that they are poor and just waiste all their time. This is what agrivates me the most. I also don't like how everything you buy nowadays is becomeing so digital. I liked being able to buy a PC game or a movie and actually haveing something to show for it not just a bunch of pixels that say I own it and can be destroyed quicker than the eye can blink. Wheew glad I got that ranting out of my system.


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## tjcruiser

GC,

One goal you might want to set for yourself is to build a functional scaled prototype at some point ... 1:8 scale or something like that. Again, that's no easy task. But I think working out the many required details in a managable size (cost, time, req'd machinery, etc.) would be an enormous learning experience and preparation for the "big one"!

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

This would be a fun prject to prepare for the real scale but would it matter what engine I chose to model in 1:8. There are no scale blueprint sets for this type of G series there is a SP Pacific class though.


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## norgale

Well I'd like to say something about this Blue Comet business. First of all the BC engine is a beautiful engine. I love the big drivers and the sleek looking design of the whole thing. Second is the color. I'm glad to see that the BC was really blue. The shades you have done the passenger coach in are perfect. If it's not prototypical than the heck with it. Yours looks great. 
And third, the only thing more nuts than me restoring a 1960 Lincoln is you restoring an old steam engine. The Lincoln was my dream car when I was a kid. I now own one and just because I've already spent five times on it what the car will ever be worth doesn't make me a bad guy. You have a dream too and I hope you get what you want. If you don't live next to a RR track then you should move so you can have a siding put in that goes to your back yard. The only thing that is more unimaginable to me besides owning one of these engines is having enough room to store it. Just think of all the Lincolns I could have if I had that much room.Ha!
Go for it bro. The only thing worse than not realizing your dream is not to have gone for it at all. Pete


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## gc53dfgc

My hopes have been raised a bit regarding the Blue Comet. Today I discovered the actual railroad and their website that own the Reading & Northern 4-6-2 pacific #425. It is becomeing more and more aparent that their is very little information left regarding the G3 Pacific class and how it was built and where it's blueprints now remain. I still haven't been able to figure out a way to contact the auran team about the Blue Comet DLC pack and figure out where they got the plans for it and am from what I can tell almost no difference between a G3 and a G1. The main differences reside in the tenders and a few changes on the engine itself kind of like you can get AC or beacons added to a modern day SD90 or Dash9 and they get different names like a Dash8-40c or a Dash9-40cw. So I am thinking if their is no way on earth to actually be able to build a G3 from scratch (which I still have full intentions on doing) that I can settle for building a G1 from scratch and makeing the suttle changes like adding an Elesco water heater to make it at least look very close to a G3 since those are more available and plans can be more easily found for them. The Reading & Northern sells their equipment they don't want anymore so I will be watching their closely if the day comes when they decided to sell the 425 (which is somewhat unlikely but you never know)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76ECrpKo95k&feature=related
Another video showing the beautiful 425 in action.
http://www.readingnorthern.com/material_equipment_sales.shtml
Actual website of the Reading & Northern. I think I will be buying that nice SW1 instead of a new car if it is still available when I have the kind of money for it. I also have quite the addiction to SW series switchers as i do with the G3 Pacific for some reason. They just look magnificant to me I guess.


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## norgale

WOW! That is one terrific video. I hope they can eventually get a string of coaches and paint them blue like your rendering. Now that would be a super sight. Maybe more RR should get their steamers back on line with oil going the way it is. They just might need them again.
Imagine, a SW-1 for sale for the price of a new car. Now I think you may realize your dream after all. Hope you have fourty acres somewhere that you can put all this stuff. Thanks for posting the vids. Pete


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## haphall

gc- That's the best 10 minutes I've spent in a long time. A beautiful engine, great sound, HD, well edited. Everything! Thanks for putting this one up.
As Peter Gabriel says, "gimme steam!"


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## tjcruiser

haphall said:


> gc- That's the best 10 minutes I've spent in a long time. A beautiful engine, great sound, HD, well edited. Everything! Thanks for putting this one up.


Ditto! I completely agree!!!

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

norgale said:


> WOW! That is one terrific video. I hope they can eventually get a string of coaches and paint them blue like your rendering. Now that would be a super sight. Maybe more RR should get their steamers back on line with oil going the way it is. They just might need them again.
> Imagine, a SW-1 for sale for the price of a new car. Now I think you may realize your dream after all. Hope you have fourty acres somewhere that you can put all this stuff. Thanks for posting the vids. Pete


Theres no need for forty acres though that would be nice. 1 acre of land would be enough to put a nice straigh in and maybe even a switch which would be enough room to store an SW1.


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## tjcruiser

You need 1 acre of land ...

On a plot that's 10 feet wide x 5000 feet long!!! :thumbsup:

tj


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## Gansett

25k for a locomotive? H O N E Y can I buy a locomotive?


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## gc53dfgc

This thread seems to be lacking some color so I spent four hours today adding color to the Blue Comet black and whites again.
Before,








After,


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## gunrunnerjohn

Four hours? You need to get a life!


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## gc53dfgc

I had a few restroom and snack breaks of course. So do you like it?


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## norgale

Good work fgc. It looks great. Too bad there arn't some actual color photos of more of the old engines but then color wasn't invented back then. I love the video of the real engine in the blue livery. Cool looking train. Pete


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## tjcruiser

GC,

Fun stuff. I really liked how the drive wheel spokes were painted silver in the video link of real-life #425 loco from post #54 above. A very classy look!

(So make sure you have a can or two of silver paint in your inventory of "stuff" when you get ready to build!!!)

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

The spokes of the Blue comet are supossed to be a blue with a gold pinstripe down the middle but trying to acomplish that with the resolution of this picture would have drove me nuts.


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## tjcruiser

Gold? Ohh. The 425 had what looked like silver to me. Either way ... sweeeet!


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## gc53dfgc

TJ,

Were you ever able to track down any patents and blueprints on the USRA 4-6-2 Light Pacific G3 steam engine?

I have found something that will greatly and I mean greatly help when it comes time to build the G3 Pacific and the Blue Comet cars. It is a 1930 Locomotive Cyclopedia. This book is amazing, 1444 pages of nothing but steam engines. It has the G3 Pacific as well as many other pacifics and it has a bunch of drawings as well as blueprints and how other parts are made for it. Below are some pics of the one I plan to buy.









What and how the wheels look like.








Diagram of a generator of some sort.








The Pacific section wiht a drawing with specs of one G3. 








Thind on fuel economy. Who would have thought way back then they were conserned about fuel economy. 








A boiler and the making of that boiler.








An idea of what some of the diagrams look like.








Different styles of wheels and how they are made.

I also got word back from N3v games which is the company that owns and makes Trainz and the Blue Comet add on pack for it. It was not quite what I was expecting but still more then I expected. They actually let me talk to the designers of the Blue Comet which was something I didn't think would happen. The not so good part is where the artist comes in. Turns out he made the engine off of pictures from google searchs, paid for train sites so he could here what others thought about it, joined forums and discussed it, and thankfully linked me to the website page that i am showing below.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/?page=cronj

The designer of the engine did not say anything about the cyclopedia but the website does and shure enough that 1930s cyclopedia has almost all of the info needed to rebuild a G3 Pacific locomotive as well as any other engine for that matter.


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## norgale

It sure would be nice to have some of those books. Who publishes them and if yours is one from 1930 does that mean it has alll the locos in it up to that date? If so then a 1940 would have ten more years of locos no? Pete


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## gc53dfgc

I currently do not own one but that is in my plans to get the 1930s edition of it. So I can not tell anyone to much about them as I need to make sure I get a 1930 edition before there are none available. I can tell you they are large and that they run upwards of 200 dollars depending on condition. I would say that the cyclopedia does not have all the engines up to that date. I believe the book goes back about 10-25 years in time as those would be the oldest engines a 1st class railroad would own at that time because of the constant growing technology of them annd the shear number of engines types produced. A 1940 edition would most likely just go back 20 years. I need the 1930 edition because it is the one mentioned to have reference to the G3s and I don't know if newer editions have the G3 because it was no longer in production. I will look into some of the newer editions and as for originallity, a 1930 cyclopedia was made in 1930 none were made after that period which is why they are rare, expensive, and i need one.


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## tjcruiser

GC,

Great find! Now you're talking ... those are engineering-type drawings, specifications, etc. Much more detail than your original "blueprints".

Here's a quick Lib of Cong search along those lines:

http://www.loc.gov/search/?q=Locomotive+Cyclopedia&st=list

Note a 1916 version, and a 1936 "modelers" version.

Happy reading!

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

I still have those blueprints and they are indeed originals its just they are part of a bigger plan set. The ones I have give a good bit of detail about the boiler and its specs. This will jsut really speed up the process of doing it insted of having to redisgn it all to match.


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## gc53dfgc

*New Color Photos*

I am waiting for the right close to perfect condition 1930's Locomotive Cyclopedia to come on the market as the ones on now have damged pages where i need ones that are not for them to be useable. So I decided to do another black and white to color conversion as well as some more research. 

First off is the picture of the blue comet engine and cars after the original 831,832,and 833 were removed from service on the line. The original Blue Comet engines were pulled off of service and replaced with other Pacifics but most comonly this Camelback locomotive. The three Blue Comet engines were repainted in black and put into frieght or other passenger services on the CNJ lines.










I also did some research on the passenger cars used by the Blue Comet. I even found outt he two editions of car builder cyclopedias that I need which are the 1925 and 1928 editions which give massive amounts of betail on everything in the cars from the ventilation to the heating and water systems as well as how each fixture was designed and made. I also tracked down where some of the remaining cars are currently, most of which still residing in New Jersey. The first two which are in their most original condition are at the United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey. These include De Vico, D'arrest, and Westphal. The others are at Rio Grande, New Jersey as a part of the Tri-State Railway Historical Society which is the observation car Tempel. Biela is currently located in Clinton, New Jersey as a renivated observation car serving as a resturant. The CNJ Camelback locomotive #592 is preserved at the Baltimore and Ohio railroad museum in Maryland. I am asking a favor of all those who live in New Jersey or in Maryland that when they go by these areas and happen to be going to those places for some reason or another that if they could would get some detailed photos of the surviving cars and if possible inside details as well as truck bogie details. Any help would be much apreciated.


















That concludes the newer research that I have discovered and the work I have done so far. Let me know what you all think of it.


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## norgale

I think you should start buying up all the remaining cars ect. so you won't have to actually build them. Pete


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## tjcruiser

GC,

You are dedicated ... I admire that. Nice research on your part.

Sounds like Big Ed needs to make a quick photo road trip.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

norgale said:


> I think you should start buying up all the remaining cars ect. so you won't have to actually build them. Pete


That would be nice but there are three pretty big problems with that idea. 

1. I do not have the money to buy those cars even if I wanted to.
2. It is very unlikly that the railroad museums and societys as well as the buisness would want to sell them to me.
3. Since these cars are wooden and have survived for decades almost a century since they were built they have been through many changes and modifications from the original Blue Comet cars or have the wood is very rotted and have deteriated so much from their new state that it would be somewhat unwise as you would have to do a lot of restoration work to them almost to a point where it might be cheaper to just build them, Plus I think I would enjoy the fact that me and everyone involved were able to raise the dead, bring back history, and build a complete train from scratch which almost everyone that has brought some form of non existent car or locomotive back has just used a base or sometimes just a look alike so it is never trully the real thing or new. I have a feeling that by the time I am ready and able to do this that those cars will either A. Still be around but in very very poor shape or restored if the museums ever get around to it, or B. They will be long gone.


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## Big Ed

Yes that car is located in Clinton NJ.
You can eat in it.

You can see it going by on the big road. (RT 78) on the west bound side I think exit 14 or 13.


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## gc53dfgc

big ed said:


> Yes that car is located in Clinton NJ.
> You can eat in it.
> 
> You can see it going by on the big road. (RT 78) on the west bound side I think exit 14 or 13.


Does this mean I can expect to see some nice photos of them sometime in the future Ed? I would go there myself but thats a long distance away from me.


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## Reckers

Maybe I'm missing something, but in looking back at the start of the thread...why not just restore an old one? I'm not up on where there's any old ones rusting away, but getting some experienced workers to refurbish one has got to be cheaper and easier than building one from drawings. If you're serious, think outside the box...think Mexico, Central and South America in looking for one.


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## Big Ed

Pictures


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## gc53dfgc

Reckers said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but in looking back at the start of the thread...why not just restore an old one? I'm not up on where there's any old ones rusting away, but getting some experienced workers to refurbish one has got to be cheaper and easier than building one from drawings. If you're serious, think outside the box...think Mexico, Central and South America in looking for one.


Are you talking about just restoring an old locomotive? If so that is impossible as their are no G3 Pacifics in existance and each class of Pacific is different from another like how a G1 has a very differently shaped boiler then a G3 as well as different parts installed on them. If you are talking about restoring old cars I am still doing research on that so I don't know exactly the type and model of cars that were used but it seems to be that they were lightweights or were heavy weights converted to light weights some time in their lives. The amount of work and restoration to bring the originals back to original would be close to a complete tear down so the only thing that would be left is the bear metal/iron frame. Eds picture hints at this as well as mine. The restuarant car ahs had huge modifications to it as way of obviously the roof for one with its new AC but also a bunch of work done to the roof and the addition of a large fuel tank that the original never had. The cars I have pictured are also very old and need a full restore which is a complete strip down. I can find cars in another country or even here if they are the exact same or need some minor changes but if I have to do complete restores on every car it is just about the same as starting with new. The advantage to new is it is safer/stronger and will indefinatly last longer then a restore will. The advantage to a restore is that is will be cheaper but you loose the strength you get with new higher grade steels and materials that are available these days as well as safety improvements. My main reason for not wanting to use old cars is the safety but also the fact that they won't be built for the Blue Comet and that they were al wood cars originally retrofitted to match the Blue comet which their are fewer and fewer cars of that type and most already have plans in mind for them.

I hope that awnsers the question correctly. Feel free to post a reply if that does not awnser or if you have another.

Oh, and thank you for those pictures Ed


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## Big Ed

A couple more I found on the net.

















I believe what they have is the observation car that they made into a diner.


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## gc53dfgc

That would be correct Ed, 

It is a true observation car from the Blue Comet but as is quite obvious gone through a lot of changes to fit its roll as a new diner.


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## tjcruiser

GC,

Just a passing comment ...

I don't know anything specific about the condition of the wood in the remaining original Comet passenger cars, however you seem to be of the opinion that whatever wood is left would somehow be scrapped with any serious restoration work.

Keep in mind that structures and vehicles built quite some time ago were usually build with "old growth" lumber stock ... lumber from large trees with very tight growth rings. Virtually all of our country's old-growth forests have been cut/harvested (unless otherwise preserved via conservation land), and as such, it's very difficult to obtain tight-grained, high-quality wood for serious restoration (or reproduction) projects.

I know this first-hand via several historic wooden boat/ship projects that I've been involved with...

On one, the project team was granted special permission from the King of Denmark to harvest old-growth timber in the historic (and protected) Danish forests. That's not a permission slip that you can pick up at your local Home Depot!

On another, the tragedy of hurricane Katrina which wiped out everything in its path along the coastline managed to offer a positive benefit ... dozens of huge old-growth oak trees which were toppled by the storm will now have a new life in the ongoing restoration of the whaleship Charles W. Morgan at Mystic in CT.

Anyway, my point is this ... don't "write off" the old wood that's in those passenger cars. It might be much better quality than anything that's easily available today.

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

Thats very interesting. I hadn't though about the type and quality of the wood used. So what do you think the best route is? Just buy cars that have the proper wood needed and then use them to build the real ones? I am currently not sure if standard cars could be made into the proper Blue Comet cars as they were made in 1925 and I do not have the car builders cyclopedia that I can cross reference real Blue Comet car photos with ones in the car cyclopedia but I am getting the feeling that they should be similar, I was kind of looking forward to building from scratch but redoing could be just as fun, who knows.


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## tjcruiser

GC,

No easy answer on that one. Best decision (when the time comes) would be to review options on a case-by-case (car-by-car) basis. But don't completely rule out the old cars because of the old wood ... the wood joinery (cabinetry finish) could be it's most prized asset.

TJ


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## norgale

big ed said:


> Pictures
> 
> View attachment 11119
> 
> 
> View attachment 11120


Well that's a great find and it's the end observation car to boot. This would be an important car to have for your train. The AC certainly detracts from it's appearance and should have been put on the ground somewhere inconspicuous. However AC is better than no AC even if it does look bad. Looks like about a four ton unit which would be very adequate for the space.
Anyway you hang in there with your dream. I've always found that if I wanted something bad enough and long enough it came to be. Bigger projects have been started with less so keep up the research and buy a lot of lotto tickets but DO NOT borrow against the house.  Pete


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## gc53dfgc

Well Christmas Day I got the book of my dreams.  It is the 1930 edition Locomotive Cyclopedia. This book has just about every steam engine running at that time including the Blue Comet and all the schematics for building one. I will get pictures up once a camera turns up with space on it. So who wants to help build a train?


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## norgale

Help build a train? MMMMMM> What's the compensation? I'm good at giving free advice if that will help. Pete


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