# dcc reverse loop



## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

what is good for controlling the reverse loops . the boards i quess what ya call them that reverses the power so your loco keeps going. . im about to start building my new layout and have been through 15 20 plans hahaha ( no kidding ) but have an L shape now that in gunna build with 2 reverse loops. so im scouting for some kinda simple control that is auto matic. I use NCE power cab stuff. what works and all that good stuff.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

You need either a manually operated DPDT (meaning a double-pole, double-throw) toggle switch or an 'auto-reverser'.

For the DPDT, you have to remember to flick the toggle when...sorry...BEFORE...it matters most. Otherwise you get a short.

If you want automatic switching of phase, then a DCC Specialties PSX series reverser would be a good bet. Somewhat cheaper is a Digitrax AR.


You provide a gap at the ends of the loop, both exits to the turnout, and you wire the reverser device IN SERIES from the power bus so that it receives power from the bus and provides power to that gapped loop.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

For DCC you can use any make reverse loop controller.
They are available from each DCC system provider.
You don't have to match the brands. 

You'll need a 'controller' for each reverse loop.

Create an isolated section in your loops. Insulated joiners
in each rail at each end. Each loop should be as long as
your longest lighted train. The controller is powered by
your main track bus. It's output powers the isolated
section.

A DCC reverse loop controller is fully automatic and once
installed you need never touch it again. The way it
works, when loco wheels span the insulated joiners there
is a 'short'. The 'controller' reacts quickly to match the
phase (polarity) and the loco continues on without a pause. When it reaches the exit and wheels span the insulated joiners
there is another 'short' and again the controller matches
the phase. There is not so much as a flicker of the headlight
it's that fast.

Don


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

Thank You Don for that great explanation. i was reading some on the digitrax ar , but i have not looked at the dcc spelities one. so i need two of these units to power each loop. . i understand that i have to seperate the rails on both ends of the loops. Some of my reading is that some of those auto-reverser switches aren't fast enough for the NCE system. But they said the digitrax ar is adjustable for the NCE system to work. IE lower the volts or what ever to 0.25 and then they work good. i don't want an manual ones for sure . i got enough things to think about and don't want to worry if i've switched the right switches. hahahah I've never mess with anything like this, so i'm relying on everybody's experiences .


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Sid -- I haven't really been following your other thread, because I couldn't keep up with the constant retooling...

However, taking a look back at them now, most of them are just two or three concentric loops with some sidings and nary a reverse loop in sight. It's only a reverse loop if you exit a turnout going one direction, and are able to trace s route that comes back around and enters that same turnout heading in the opposite direction. Just making a loop to reverse the direction of travel on a parallel track is not a reverse loop.

If you can pick a final design and post it, we can tell you for sure whether you have one or not, but right now it looks to me like a reverse loop is not something you have to worry about.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

You can power and reverse both loops with one reverser...PROVIDED...you don't run trains into/out of both of them near simultaneously. If one loop will always be empty, the reverser will switch both of them simultaneously when the need arises, and the empty loop won't care. Neither will the decoder in the host locomotive over the switched tracks.

You're welcome.


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

CTValley i've scraped those plans as i didn't get quite the feed back on them and i had to kill one end of it. . (needed the extra room, plus keeping cost down for now) My new design is an L shaped design with 2 reverse loops . Ive been playing with it with model train simulator on my computer .but here is my semi final plan im starting to gather wood for the tables ect.
Apparently wife is a lil upset that i have $2000worth of train stuff all ready. But im gunna build it cause i have most of the parts


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I agree sid, you have 2 reverse loops. As for the wife, they seem to always be a bit upset with us. My wife was not a model train fan. But I got her to come around. How? I bought her own handheld wireless controller and told her that it was just for her to use. You have to know wives are jealous of our trains. We spend time with them and not the wife. Some how you need to include the wife with your trains. She will fight it at first but she will realize its something to do together.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Sid

Now that you have posted your entire layout
scheme it is definite that you have 2 reverse
loops. I would place the insulated joiners that
create the isolated sections at the turnouts.
They then should be long enuf for most trains.
Include in the isolated sections all stub end
sidings.

Some reverse loop controllers don't do their
rephase fast enough to avoid a short indication
on the controller. As you have noted the AR1
can be set to avoid that. 

Looks like a very interesting layout for
continuous running and for switching.

If you haven't selected the controls for
your turnouts may I suggest you look into
the Stapleton 751 series. They provide 
turnout motor control as well as LED panel
and/or trackside lighting control. If you
use twin coil motors the 751 D has built
in capacitor discharge unit to protect coils
from burnout. Another model is designed
for stall motor systems.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

sid said:


> CTValley i've scraped those plans as i didn't get quite the feed back on them and i had to kill one end of it. . (needed the extra room, plus keeping cost down for now) My new design is an L shaped design with 2 reverse loops . Ive been playing with it with model train simulator on my computer .but here is my semi final plan im starting to gather wood for the tables ect.
> Apparently wife is a lil upset that i have $2000worth of train stuff all ready. But im gunna build it cause i have most of the parts


Yup... definitely reverse loops there. You've gotten good advice on how to handle them.

Dropping 2 grand without telling SWMBO... yeah, bad move. Mine knows I have a budget of $100 a month for all hobby expenditures... and I stick to it, even though, at that rate, I spend $2000 every 20 months...


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

mopac said:


> I agree sid, you have 2 reverse loops. As for the wife, they seem to always be a bit upset with us. My wife was not a model train fan. But I got her to come around. How? I bought her own handheld wireless controller and told her that it was just for her to use. You have to know wives are jealous of our trains. We spend time with them and not the wife. Some how you need to include the wife with your trains. She will fight it at first but she will realize its something to do together.


HUMMM her own throttle , ILL do it hahahahaha Thanks


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

DON and CTV ive changed that layout as well. it now has 2 loops all the way around. ya she is i lil upset. i see it i buy it. hahahahahahaha but she always has what ever she needs . i did full inventory today and found that i have a lot more track than i thought i had. here is the new layout and i think this is what im building . still tinkering with the curves a bit.
i like the 2 loops all the way around. this way one loco stays running all the time untill i can get one more engine to do a consist (i think thats what its called ) on the main line


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I don't know that much about reverse loop wiring but that double crossover
on the top loop may be a problem, at least something to look at. :dunno:

Nice looking track plan, lots to do there.

Magic


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The double crossover is a problem, only because its a double crossover. Its better to seperate them, but if one already has the double crossover, might as well us it!


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

Thanks magic and lemon,, i don't know why everybody does not like them double cross overs . i love them saves me money and Kato cross overs work great. I never had a problem with them even at full speed they just work. But i have these parts in inventory . i did have the top one separated but i don't have those parts and the wife is already peod at me. This is my first ever big layout. And first ever reverse loops. Why does everybody not like them double cross overs ? I've seen them on real rail roads before. Thank you fella's for ideas and advice.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, double crossovers can generate reverse loop
problems as we have seen in other layouts. But, here,
the double crossovers are being used as intended,
to connect the two tracks of a double track mainline
just as you see some times on the real railroads. There
is no right rail, left rail conflict that would result in a short
circuit.

Don


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

DON :: awww i see . i try to not connect them to any turns . i like them in straight track configuration. i just like how they work one switch and it throws every thing plus my trains fly through them with no problems at all.. except for one car (i think it has bad axles )


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## furnmkr (Apr 21, 2018)

*2 reverse loops*

I have exactly the same thing you are talking about.....an L-shaped layout with a reversing loop at each end of the layout. I used two PSX-AR boards and everything works great....even worked the first time I ran a train around the layout! Very straight forward to install. The boards also act as a circuit breaker to protect your locomotives and controller/power supply.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Sid I don't have anything against double crossovers, just though that 
their location might cause reverse loop polarity problems.

I had some on my first layout but they didn't work out, had them too close to grade changes 
but they are nice in the fact you just need to throw one switch and will
alternate loops every time around. Kinda o handy.

Magic


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

furnmkr said:


> I have exactly the same thing you are talking about.....an L-shaped layout with a reversing loop at each end of the layout. I used two PSX-AR boards and everything works great....even worked the first time I ran a train around the layout! Very straight forward to install. The boards also act as a circuit breaker to protect your locomotives and controller/power supply.


aww cool Thank You. ill have to wait for funds to get me a couple. probaly after i get the layout on tables/ wall shelves type tables . not sure yet on that part on the build.
But Thank You:smilie_daumenpos:


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

Magic said:


> Sid I don't have anything against double crossovers, just though that
> their location might cause reverse loop polarity problems.
> 
> I had some on my first layout but they didn't work out, had them too close to grade changes
> ...


hahahaha no worries. i've had a lot of people say they just dont like them hahahaha, me i've had absolutely O problems with mine , But i use only Kato track. Never had any at or on a grade or any thing like that. maybe when my skills get better ill make some kinda grades. everything i have is flat . i did play with some grades in scarm while i was learning how to use it. (still learning ) hahaha


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