# ERR



## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

You can stil buy RailSounds from Electric Rail Road.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Good to know. Thanks!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, it's the TMCC products that are in short supply. However, in the middle of next month, the whole shooting match shuts down as of the current status.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I have three locos I wanted to upgrade to ERR. I guess that's not going to happen now.


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

I was able to order one last night.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

If Lionel's statement is to believe, ERR received six months of orders in a matter of days. I got my order in last Sunday. I would think they are out of stock by now. If your order goes through and they don't have stock I'm sure Ken will get your refund through Paypal.

As for this possible third party to take over the sale of the boards. I'll but my money on Mr. Muffin, he seems to be gobbling up everything these days. Which is a good thing.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I just saw the Cruise Commander M order I placed was shipped, so I'll see if I actually get them.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I just saw the Cruise Commander M order I placed was shipped, so I'll see if I actually get them.


You get a email? I have yet to get anything.


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## TexasSP (Sep 8, 2011)

I thought I saw they were suspending the paypal function on the website as they had received more orders than what they had available.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

The purchase link on the left side menu has essentially been disabled now, as it links to a page indicating orders are no longer being taken. It was a poor way of "de-activating" the Paypal function though, since that was also the link that let visitors listen to the Railsounds samples. I had that page bookmarked, so here it is in case you want to listen to Railsounds samples before purchasing them at hobby shops which may still have these boards available:

http://www.electricrr.com/purchaseRailSnd.htm

*Warning though...* it appears the Paypal "add to cart" button IS still active on this page. So avoid purchasing anything from this page, since it appears the ERR office doesn't want to (or can't) fulfill orders anymore.

David


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I ordered a bunch of RS modules, I hope the fill those orders.


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

I will let you know if and when I get an email about shipping.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

It would appear Lionel's poorly executed TMCC/ERR announcement is already reeking havoc with the upgrade market rather quickly, as enthusiasts virtually trip over each other "online" to find upgrade kits. In addition to ERR reportedly receiving 6 months' worth of orders in a couple of days at the company's webstore (with no clear indication which orders will be fulfilled).... Earlier today, I checked a couple of train stores that are listed as authorized ERR dealers and still had some ERR boards in stock. A few hours later, one site which had two Cruise-M boards when I first looked is now sold out, and the other which had AC Commanders is now also sold out. 

So.... You snooze.... you lose.... since a world of folks are already scavenging the authorized ERR dealers for inventory this weekend in order to secure upgrade kits, now that the ERR web-store has essentially been closed to new orders.

To borrow/paraphrase a tagline from Kalmbach, isn't model railroading fun???  

David


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If Lionel wanted to really make a bunch of people unhappy, I doubt they could have done a better job than they did.  You have no idea how many angry emails I'm getting from people that were wanting to do upgrades, and I had to tell them that not only are they not going to be able to get the ERR stuff, but I'll no longer be making the Super-Chuffer as there's not enough market for it now.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

They piss off the people who have money to buy their product. They really don't care.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If Lionel wanted to really make a bunch of people unhappy, I doubt they could have done a better job than they did.  You have no idea how many angry emails I'm getting from people that were wanting to do upgrades, and I had to tell them that not only are they not going to be able to get the ERR stuff, but I'll no longer be making the Super-Chuffer as there's not enough market for it now.


Oh, John, _who_ could ever get angry at you!?



DennyM said:


> They piss off the people who have money to buy their product. They really don't care.


According to Lionel the money they were getting wasn't enough, so no, they don't really care. 

And they created the scarcity environment by announcing the end of sales, which caused a run on remaining stock to get rid of it. Absolutely brilliant! But not so much for customer care without an alternative at the time of the announcement.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I ordered a bunch of RS modules, I hope the fill those orders.


Bob said he emailed Ken at ERR and was told there is no product and can't fill any orders. He said he's turning down work from people that want ERR installed. He said it puts repair techs in a bad place because of that.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I am happy running conventional with my ZW. I don't know any better. Sorry to hear
about the ERR upgrades cutoff. Seems strange but I guess they have their reasons. I
have DCC for HO. I run all scales and was not interested in upgrading any of them.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Traindiesel said:


> ...
> And they created the scarcity environment by announcing the end of sales, which caused a run on remaining stock to get rid of it. Absolutely brilliant! But not so much for customer care without an alternative at the time of the announcement.


Brian, please permit me to use the word "shrewd" to describe these bean-counters before I call them "brilliant".  If they were really brilliant, they'd get their butts on an airplane bound for China (and Romania, yes Romania too ) and tighten up the quality control issues that seem to be plaguing practically everything delivered recently -- except for perhaps the Brass Hybrid steamer. Lionel should route ALL its high-end production to that factory crew, since those workers seemingly hit the ball out of the park on that locomotive.

But I've given up trusting the execs running Lionel to do _anything_ right anymore. It's downright SCARY to pre-order stuff these days, so I've cut back my pre-orders considerably. The management team is cutting corners to no end on many products, and they've been delivering very few products that buyers are truly proud to own nowadays. Think about it: 

the Legacy Mogul was a disaster... and it didn't need to be redesigned one iota, when the former TMCC Mogul still runs like a Swiss watch. And now the replacement parts that folks have been awaiting for months to fix the Legacy Mogul don't even work as expected. What's THAT all about? 

the 0-8-0 switcher locomotive in Lionel's PREMIUM Steel City Switcher train set two years ago wasn't engineered to even be a "full" Legacy steamer... causing problems with jerky slow speed operation, which is unacceptable for a switcher-class locomotive for gosh sake.  

The 21" passenger line is a complete joke. We let Lionel talk us into how great things were gonna be when they abandoned aluminum materials for ABS construction, and that turned out to be just another way for Lionel to cut manufacturing costs. Yet look at the abysmal nonsense buyers put up with earlier this year. I still can't get over the fact that I needed to wire-tie EVERY passenger car coupler in my Penn Central set to keep a 7-car train from randomly uncoupling during a video production.  

Do we even wanna talk about the Milk Car fiasco occurring over in Romania as we speak? A thread over on the other place quotes Mike Reagan back in 2016 as indicating delays moving tooling residing in the States INTO Asia at the time, and quoting a mid-2017 delivery date. So when was the decision made to move production of the new Milk Cars to Romania instead, where Lionel can't even get a decent production sample shipped to North Carolina after how many months' delay? 

And now we have this ERR debacle, where we can in no way blame an overseas factory. The problem sits right there in North Carolina. 
 
It's just so ironic that in a time when many of us have reached very real saturation points, importers _should_ be delivering products that make buyers wanna come back for more and more -- not delivering products that make buyers hesitant to pre-order or purchase items in the next catalog(s).

Brilliant? Nah.... I think when we pull the camera lens back and take a much broader look, "incompetent" sounds like a much more accurate adjective. They may have sold through some old TMCC/ERR inventory pretty quickly, but that's hardly gonna undo all the other issues outlined above -- not to mention the overall PR mess it's caused among even the most loyal enthusiasts.

I swear... you just can't make this kind of stuff up. Very sad. 


David


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Yes, shrewd is a better adjective to describe the method Lionel used to cause the run on ERR products. And while no one wants to be known as incompetent, the comedy of errors they have been dumping on the market certainly points that way, if not careless. 

It pains me to see this happening at Lionel, and it's causing me not to preorder the Niagara. It may well be a home run and I'll take my chances waiting to get one if it is. But I'm not going to be their beta tester.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Traindiesel said:


> ....
> It pains me to see this happening at Lionel, and it's causing me not to preorder the Niagara. ....


Brian, I've got the name "LIONEL" featured predominantly on my layout and in my train room, because I absolutely love the memories I have of (1) Lionel trains as a young boy growing up when my Dad & Mom gave me my first O-Gauge train set, and (2) the times my Dad would take me to the train store on weekends to look at more Lionel trains after going out to lunch with him. There's nothing I'd rather see than for the Lionel of today to be highly successful. 

I can still remember paging through the 1966 Lionel Catalog dreaming night after night, and I have both that original 1966 catalog as well as a "newer" 1966 catalog purchased a few years ago that doesn't have as many dog-eared page corners as my childhood version.  Heck, _*I can even remember the very day*_ my Dad and I went to Tiny Tots in Greenbrook, NJ (a rather large "toy store" for its day -- now long gone), and the clerk behind the Lionel showcase gave us the 1966 catalog where he circled two items with the store's discounted prices: a Virginian blue/yellow FM for $52 marked down from $65; and a Santa Fe passenger set for $99 marked down from $125.  

The nostalgia is undeniable. The memories are quite vivid, as if they all happened just yesterday. But I'm also very much a realist. And I'll sadly admit that today's Lionel is not the Lionel of my childhood memories. 

However, the great thing about this hobby is how well we -- along with other vendors, suppliers, artists, and craftspeople of today -- can create terrific miniature worlds of wonder that will hopefully build new memories and a sense of enjoyment for our families and friends (without them even being privy to all these behind-the-scenes machinations that all too often frustrate those of us directly in the hobby). I guess it really is true that sometimes ignorance is bliss. 

David


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Brian, please permit me to use the word "shrewd" to describe these bean-counters before I call them "brilliant".  If they were really brilliant, they'd get their butts on an airplane bound for China (and Romania, yes Romania too ) and tighten up the quality control issues that seem to be plaguing practically everything delivered recently -- except for perhaps the Brass Hybrid steamer. Lionel should route ALL its high-end production to that factory crew, since those workers seemingly hit the ball out of the park on that locomotive.
> 
> But I've given up trusting the execs running Lionel to do _anything_ right anymore. It's downright SCARY to pre-order stuff these days, so I've cut back my pre-orders considerably. The management team is cutting corners to no end on many products, and they've been delivering very few products that buyers are truly proud to own nowadays. Think about it:
> 
> ...


Man when you list them like that. The screw ups are a piling up.:smilie_daumenneg::rippedhand:


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Brian, please permit me to use the word "shrewd" to describe these bean-counters before I call them "brilliant".
> David


Bean counters taking over a company with predictable results is not a new phenomenon.
This weekend I was watching the 1954 movie "Executive Suite" with an all star cast. I don't think I had seen it all the way though before.
The story line is what happens after the (Furniture factory) CEO dies and the top execs vie to take his place. Of the six in contention it comes down to the highly ambitious CFO (Frederic March) vs the more idealistic production manager (William Holden) who sees how quality has been sacrificed for the bottom line.
If you haven't seen it and have access to TCM streaming its worth watching just for the parallels not to mention its a very good movie.

Also we shouldn't forget Lionel went though this same process in the mid '50 with the loss of JLC. When his son and Roy Cohn took over quality plummeted and sales fell. It wasn't all about slot cars and kids switching to other interests. 

Pete


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

David and Brian, while Lionel might be shrewd, Mike Wolf could prove even shrewder (in a positive way), if he'd seize this as an opportunity to strengthen his command control system's position in the O gauge market and entice folks to use DCS by lowering the price of DCS upgrade kits. That could also be a way to get sweet revenge after years ago losing the lawsuit with Lionel.

Btw, does anyone other than me also question the timing of this elimination, I mean Lionel doing this during mid Spring when active participation in O gauge is waning as the majority of folks begin making that seasonal pilgrimage from actively working inside on their trains and layouts to outdoor summer activities and vacations. Lionel management might well be depending on an "out of sight, out of mind train attentive" summertime mindstate of many O gaugers, thus assuaging their angst, anger, focus, zeal against, and general concern for this decision until next fall's train season when the effect of summer lethargy over Lionel's decision might make it too difficult for O gaugers to once again become emboldened and launch a formidable campaign to bring back tmcc to the consumer marketplace.


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

DCS is just a non starter for me, I chose the TMCC platform because it had broad acceptance (K line, Weaver, Atlas) and provided the ability to easily upgrade. I am just too invested in the now defunct product line to consider a transition. What this has done is stopped my search for up-gradable locos in its tracks. If I receive the 2 boards I tried to order at the last minute I will upgrade two of the fleet. After that these trains will run until they die and be relegated to a shelf. I understand the platform is obsolete but at this stage in my hobby life a wholesale change just isn't in the cards. So it will be conventional or TMCC as long as it lasts. The lionel single loco, single remote system doesn't interest me. I don't know what their business plans are but for now they make nothing of interest for me.

Rocky Mountaineer, I remember Tiny Tots, that was in what we city folks from Bayonne considered the country. I had the same catalog from Dobbs Hobby shop on Broadway in Bayonne. Unfortunately that catalog is long gone.


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

_*"DCS is just a non starter for me"*_

Same here. I didn't like then, don't like it now, never will in the future.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

HenryL said:


> ....
> Rocky Mountaineer, I remember Tiny Tots, that was in what we city folks from Bayonne considered the country. I had the same catalog from Dobbs Hobby shop on Broadway in Bayonne. Unfortunately that catalog is long gone.


Henry, there's a company (Olson Hobbies) out in Washington state that sells lots of old Lionel catalogs, and a few years ago I purchased the 1966 and 1969 catalogs in Mint condition for about $5/each. 

David


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I guess I an not as pessimistic as some. I think at least some of the ERR products will be made available again. I am more concerned that Lionel will continue to keep the rights to them and not allow whoever takes over distribution to make improvements or come out with their own solutions using up to date components. Otherwise they could pull the plug anytime they wish.
Making copies of ERR circuits will only be possible as long as the individual components are available but in electronics there are literally scores of ways to process a signal. The only thing that matters is how it works and not how it looks.

Pete


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

We can only hope that someone, somehow, someday can turn Lionel in the right direction, if not to the way they were.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Lionel over the past 25 years has gone through so many ownership changes and senior executive changes that it is a small miracle that they still exist. I would not be surprised that the new owner will get tired of trying to keep the company on life support and let it fade off into the sunset.

Bill


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Like HenryL and Big Jim. I have no interest in DCS. If that's what floats your boat then go for it. I will continue to buy conventional locos. You can still run them with Cab-1, Cab1-L or Cab-2 if you have a Powermaster, ZW-C or ZW-L which have command modes which allows you to operate your conventional locos like a regular transformer, but with the remote. I've done it many times.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

I understand the hesitancy folks may have migrating over to DCS. For one thing, DCS (i.e.,especially its need for consistent signal strength) is highly sensitive to how a layout is wired, whereas TMCC/Legacy is less dependent on that. So that alone raises a red flag for some folks when they hear "DCS".

Secondly, TMCC had a relative simplicity about it that made the technology very attractive to a broad range of enthusiasts: namely, those who adopted it instantly all the way to those who really still preferred conventional transformer control but dabbled in TMCC one locomotive at a time. I'll admit the base technology can be called "dated" -- simply by the speed at which the technology treadmill operates these days. But calling TMCC obsolete is paramount to calling color TV obsolete. And nothing could be further from the truth. Just like new technologies still deliver color TV in our homes, new components can still deliver TMCC "functionality" in a way that gives older locomotives longer life. 

Pulling the plug on ERR was an arbitrary decision. Period. It wasn't LOSING MONEY. It simply wasn't making ENOUGH MONEY. This is PRECISELY what I was referring to when I said dealing with C-level executives in a company is like speaking an entirely different language. I hated dealing with them 15-20 years ago, and I'd hate dealing with them again today.  So I don't have any silver-bullet answers here, because we can't get around dealing with the bean-counters.  All you can do is make as best a case as is sensibly feasible, and hope at some point you actually get through to them. But even when you think you've made it perfectly clear, they still won't see the light if it's not in THEIR best interest.

Now that we look back on the past couple of weeks, I think it's fairly safe to conclude that Lionel's execs couldn't have executed this announcement in a worse way than they did -- even if they tried.  Not only did they bungle the announcement itself, they're now supposedly unable to fulfill some of the orders they should be able to fulfill -- telling buyers that _PayPal_ actually shut down Lionel's account due to the sudden surge in orders. WTF???  Didn't HH's letter indicate that's exactly what _he_ wanted to do? Namely disable the Paypal account so the website couldn't accept more orders? See the following excerpted quote from HH's letter:

_"... There is not enough inventory to fill all the orders, some will be canceled and until Ken can sort it out, we are temporarily shutting down the PayPal account tied to ERR. ..."_​
Yet now we're hearing there's a fly in the ointment with this approach... as the fellow in California who fulfills ERR orders apparently is now saying he can't ship additional orders because the Paypal account that's been shut down is also used to pay for shipping!!! Duh..... :dunno: So who REALLY shut down the account? Paypal or Lionel? When I saw the inconsistency with this explanation, I honestly didn't know whether to laugh or cry. 

I'm sorry... folks can call me cynical if they want, but I honestly don't believe ONE word coming out of the mouths of Lionel executives these days. At a minimum, the left and right hands don't know what they're doing. And worst case, they're proving my contention earlier that they're living on another planet in their hopes that even Lionel's most loyal enthusiasts aren't gonna smell something foul here and wonder when the next shoe is gonna drop.

Like I said earlier... you can't make this kind of stuff up! And Big-L players just keep digging themselves into a deeper and deeper hole every time somebody opens their mouth. If this isn't yet another shot to their own credibility, then I don't know what else is or will be. :smilie_daumenneg:

David


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Lionel over the past 25 years has gone through so many ownership changes and senior executive changes that it is a small miracle that they still exist. I would not be surprised that the new owner will get tired of trying to keep the company on life support and let it fade off into the sunset.
> 
> Bill


Rumor of the day, remember you read it here first.

At some point Bachman Industries _(backed by Kader Holdings Company Limited, who also owns Sanda Kan_, will acquire the Lionel name.

Sanda Kan had previously manufactured trains for Lionel, as well as Atlas and Marklin.

Good or bad? Who knows?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Traindiesel said:


> Rumor of the day, remember you read it here first.
> 
> At some point Bachman Industries _(backed by Kader Holdings Company Limited, who also owns Sanda Kan_, will acquire the Lionel name.
> 
> ...


That is a very interesting rumor. Kader Industries of Hong Kong is a huge company mostly involved in real estate in China but is also the largest electric train company in the world. They certainly have the deep pockets to not only purchase Lionel but to also take Lionel off life support.

Bill


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

seayakbill said:


> That is a very interesting rumor. Kader Industries of Hong Kong is a huge company mostly involved in real estate in China but is also the largest electric train company in the world. They certainly have the deep pockets to not only purchase Lionel but to also take Lionel off life support.
> 
> Bill


All I know who ever owns them now or in the future, please make Quality your top priority.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

From where I stand DCS is fine for experienced RC modelers, but those who are just learning, TMCC is more user friendly. A lot of people don't want something they have to spend too much time learning how to use which is why LionChief Plus is getting more popular which is even more user friendly. Three of my club members don't even want to talk about TMCC, Legacy or DCS they are happy with LC+.


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

DennyM, LionChief may be the tool d'jour from Lionel but it leave those of us who would like an operating standard out in the cold. There is no drop in upgrade board and the system I believe requires a unique remote for each loco unless you go with the 3 loco remote. Having a larger fleet makes this challenging. I had several locos slated for ERR upgrades because I wanted to have a single tool by which to run the RR. Those several have now moved from the layout to their box and will appear for sale shortly on Ebay because I do not need more items on a shelf gathering dust. In one sense the announcement has forced me to take a long hard look at what I own and decide to cut and run. The fleet will be smaller and that will be a good thing in the long run.


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## TexasSP (Sep 8, 2011)

The issue I could see with anyone purchasing Lionel the company is that the perceived value of the company is likely much higher than the actual value. Would be curious what their EBITDA is. I believe their revenue is probably much lower than what some think it is.

Even now people who don't know I run across still think my PW Lionel I got from my Late Great Uncle is worth 10's of thousands, when in reality it's nowhere close. I think with Lionel there is so much mystique around the name that the legend is much larger than reality.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

TexasSP said:


> .... I think with Lionel there is so much mystique around the name that the legend is much larger than reality.


That is for sure... no doubt whatsoever. Look at HH's letter he penned (in response to consumer feedback over the end-of-service ERR announcement). Compare that to the post I composed here a few days ago listing the recent trend with product issues in just the past couple of years.

Which version of "reality" do you think Lionel's execs want any potential suitors to read? 

David


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

HenryL said:


> DennyM, LionChief may be the tool d'jour from Lionel but it leave those of us who would like an operating standard out in the cold. ....


From what I know of LC and LC+ (and I'm by no means purporting to be an expert on those technologies), they do seem to be more of a shoot-from-the-hip, entry/mid-range offering that was never intended to have upgrade-path options that would grow the technology. Whereas Legacy was the follow-on to TMCC, which FULLY incorporated TMCC protocols and built additional features beyond TMCC. In other words, Legacy was a well-designed superset on top of TMCC -- targeting the market segment that embraced TMCC. For me personally, LC and LC+ were never on my radar screen, but I could see why some folks went down that path. I went straight from TMCC to Legacy.

The beauty of the ERR products resided in the fact that they enhanced TMCC while staying within the TMCC protocol, along with providing an upgrade path for conventional locomotives to live in a TMCC world at whatever pace each hobbyist felt most comfortable.

David


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Sorry, please see below.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Traindiesel said:


> Rumor of the day, remember you read it here first.
> 
> At some point Bachman Industries _(backed by Kader Holdings Company Limited, who also owns Sanda Kan_, will acquire the Lionel name.
> 
> ...


Well, I've become so bored with fading O scale and so disgusted with Lionel and its issues in recent years, that I don't really care what happens to it, who acquires it, or what becomes of it.


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## Matt_GNo27 (Feb 7, 2016)

ERR's PayPal account would seem to have been unlocked—I received a shipping notice earlier today.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I ordered a week and a half ago and haven't heard a thing. Strange that you got a ship notice. I've never gotten one. Package just shows up in the mail box.


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## Matt_GNo27 (Feb 7, 2016)

Have you paid with PayPal? That's what I've used for my three orders this year from ERR, and each time PayPal sends an email confirming the payment, and another when the item has been shipped.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

HenryL said:


> DennyM, LionChief may be the tool d'jour from Lionel but it leave those of us who would like an operating standard out in the cold. There is no drop in upgrade board and the system I believe requires a unique remote for each loco unless you go with the 3 loco remote. Having a larger fleet makes this challenging. I had several locos slated for ERR upgrades because I wanted to have a single tool by which to run the RR. Those several have now moved from the layout to their box and will appear for sale shortly on Ebay because I do not need more items on a shelf gathering dust. In one sense the announcement has forced me to take a long hard look at what I own and decide to cut and run. The fleet will be smaller and that will be a good thing in the long run.





Rocky Mountaineer said:


> From what I know of LC and LC+ (and I'm by no means purporting to be an expert on those technologies), they do seem to be more of a shoot-from-the-hip, entry/mid-range offering that was never intended to have upgrade-path options that would grow the technology. Whereas Legacy was the follow-on to TMCC, which FULLY incorporated TMCC protocols and built additional features beyond TMCC. In other words, Legacy was a well-designed superset on top of TMCC -- targeting the market segment that embraced TMCC. For me personally, LC and LC+ were never on my radar screen, but I could see why some folks went down that path. I went straight from TMCC to Legacy.
> 
> The beauty of the ERR products resided in the fact that they enhanced TMCC while staying within the TMCC protocol, along with providing an upgrade path for conventional locomotives to live in a TMCC world at whatever pace each hobbyist felt most comfortable.
> 
> David


HenryL and David, I agree. I have TMCC, ERR and Legacy locos plus three locos I want to install ERR into. I also use Cab1-L and Cab-2 depending on which remote is closest to me. The only LC+ that has my interest is the 4-6-2 Pacific and only because it can navigate my 036 curves and the price is right. I'd rather have a Lionmaster steam loco, but the price is more than I want to pay.


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

I see that lionel boxcars with railsounds and American flyer boxcars with Railsounds are still available on EBAY for around $99.00 new.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those are the old boxcars, not the new sound boxcars. Of all the "sound" boxcars on eBay in the O-gauge listings, this is the only new sound car, it's $150 + shipping. LIONEL 6-83533 PENNSYLVANIA PRR PS-1 FREIGHT SOUNDS BOXCAR


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

*RailSounds Steam - Medium"*

Got an email from Wabash Junction today. i already got one somewhere else.


Bill has one Electric Railroad Company "RailSounds Steam - Medium" left in stock. Purchase price would be $89.95 plus shipping.
Will take a credit card order.

[email protected]>

Bill Beatty
Wabash Junction
1287 Wabash Avenue
Springfield, IL 62704
(217) 787-4855


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

Anybody take advantage of this?


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Is it just the Railsounds board or is he selling the command board too?


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

All I asked about was the railsounds kit.


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## Matt_GNo27 (Feb 7, 2016)

3rd Rail/Scott Mann is going to be the distributor of ERR products:

http://www.lionel.com/articles/Lionel-Electric-Railroad


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

Sunset models web site now lists ERR boards for sale (pre-order)! Hopefully, TMCC is alive and well.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I’m just trying to understand what the deal is with ERR. It sounds as though this is a company that is licensed by Lionel to produce one of their products. ERR is Electric railroad so these boards in question are not ERR boards but made by ERR to Lionel specifications.i
It also seems that it is an upgrade for engines already produced. Why do they need an upgrade and why didn’t Lionel do this in the first place? What happened with ERR that made Lionel cancel their contract?
I do HO and am happy with everything produced!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Bwells said:


> I’m just trying to understand what the deal is with ERR. It sounds as though this is a company that is licensed by Lionel to produce one of their products. ERR is Electric railroad so these boards in question are not ERR boards but made by ERR to Lionel specifications.i
> It also seems that it is an upgrade for engines already produced. Why do they need an upgrade and why didn’t Lionel do this in the first place? What happened with ERR that made Lionel cancel their contract?
> I do HO and am happy with everything produced!


You are basically right about what the ERR board is.

You asked "Why didn't Lionel do this in the first place?"
1) Lionel didn't make the loco. I've got my ERR boards in several other brands to upgrade them to a more "modern" standard.
2) You want to repair a Lionel loco yourself. This is an option sometimes - easier to find, buy, install.
3) The loco was made before this technology existing, and you want to upgrade it to more modern performance. 
4) If like me, you occasionally make a loco from scratch, its a good board to install - works well, fits most places, does the job well.

By the way, HO is a fine scale, but in my opinion in that scale, too, there is a lot of "junk" produced: cheap, poorly-conceived products that I would not allow in my train-room, regardless of scale. It's the same with N and O, I know, from personal experience, and I assume similar in every other scale.


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