# TCA Survey



## Guest (Jan 16, 2016)

Members of the TCA received this week an on-line survey. The TCA leadership was seeking the members input on many subjects that impact the future direction of this organization.

*I am a big supporter of this fine organization.* I think the survey was an excellent idea and I commend the leadership for gathering the opinions of the membership in this format. I obviously was eager to participate and if you are a TCA member, I highly recommend that you participate as well. The TCA leadership cares about important matters facing this organization and they can only react to our opinions if we are willing to express them.

*So please complete your on-line survey*.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Did the survey yesterday. This is a fine organization and I am a proud member. Got to meet lots of wonderful people through TCA and will continue my support.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2016)

I sure hope they get a huge response to this survey, Laz. We now know that at least two of us have completed theirs.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

At least three.


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## Ricky Tanner (Sep 19, 2015)

I responded.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

I completed the survey yesterday. I did make one comment: I mentioned that I never got a reply on any suggestions or questions and concerns I had, both from TCA headquarters or Eastern Division. A Yahoo Groups forum was created as a result of members questioning TCA officials, and policies. and also resulted in several folks being expelled from TTML. I have noticed some changes since then, but there is a lot more work to be done. I do hope that I get a reply as a result of my submission in the survey.
Don


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2016)

Responded this morning.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2016)

Don, there is no question that works needs to be done. *The survey is a good first step.*

I am sure finances need to be addressed with the operating costs of the Museum verses it's benefit to the members who bear the cost. The York Meet has to be the biggest draw the TCA and it is important to the TCA's future that it continue.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Don, there is no question that works needs to be done. *The survey is a good first step.*
> 
> I am sure finances need to be addressed with the operating costs of the Museum verses it's benefit to the members who bear the cost. The York Meet has to be the biggest draw the the TCA and it is important to the TCA's future that it continue.


I agree completely, and hope this signals a new attitude in Strasburg. Time will tell. A lot can be learned from LCCA.
Don


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

I also took the survey and shared my comments. I appreciate the TCA and some of the steps they've taken in recent years to make the organization better.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Did it today.


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## ed&bingo (Sep 20, 2015)

I also got the survey and filled it out.


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## bluecomet400 (Sep 13, 2015)

Done. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Hudson J1e (Nov 19, 2015)

I filled out the survey on Friday. I also like the TCA and want it to survive. This is my 16th year of membership. 

I can't wait for York to come around.


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## Railrunnin (Dec 24, 2015)

I was pleased to see the survey requesting our input. I hope everyone takes the couple of minutes needed to reply. 

Paul


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd join up if they'd do a large show in Denver...


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2016)

At some point Johnny, you need to attend a York Meet. This alone is reason enough to belong to the TCA.

The TCA does an excellent job in representing our hobby. Where we live does not provide frequent access to big train shows geared at the OGR hobbyist, but the TCA membership is a priority to us.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I found my e-mail and did the survey. I hope it helps. Not sure i told them anything that would, however.


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## Koltrains (Dec 20, 2015)

Joined TCA yesterday and filled out the survey.


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## Robbie (Nov 5, 2015)

Just filled out my TCA survey and replied too. Glad we have this forum to chat with each other. Koltrains- Welcome to the TCA!


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

This my 30th year in the TCA and I filled out the survey the other day.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2016)

Koltrains, welcome to the TCA. *Good move!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

*Mine*

The TCA Survey is very important. I wonder just how many recommendations/suggestions are received and actually read?

I complete mine awhile ago.


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

Filled mine out Friday.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2016)

The TCA leadership is made up of volunteers who put a lot of effort into making this organization as good as it can be. I applaud their effort in recognizing that getting opinions from it's members is very timely based upon important issues facing the TCA today. After all, unless the opinions of the rank and file membership are known, then decisions are made that effect the whole organization based upon the opinions of a few.

That is why I consider the survey at this particular time very important. Hopefully, everybody was frank about what they *really* felt on each issue presented.


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## Koltrains (Dec 20, 2015)

Robbie said:


> Just filled out my TCA survey and replied too. Glad we have this forum to chat with each other. Koltrains- Welcome to the TCA!


Thanks Robbie and PTC, I would like to attend York in the spring!!


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2016)

We would all love to see you at The April York Meet, Koltrains. And don't forget, we have an MTF Dinner on Thursday Evening where the location of the restaurant is very close to the Fairground where the Meet is held. *You are invited.*


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## Koltrains (Dec 20, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> We would all love to see you at The April York Meet, Koltrains. And don't forget, we have an MTF Dinner on Thursday Evening where the location of the restaurant is very close to the Fairground where the Meet is held. *You are invited.*


THX Brian🙂


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> At some point Johnny, you need to attend a York Meet. This alone is reason enough to belong to the TCA.
> 
> The TCA does an excellent job in representing our hobby. Where we live does not provide frequent access to big train shows geared at the OGR hobbyist, but the TCA membership is a priority to us.


PTC, I avoid flying like the plague, and for me to drive it would be 50hrs round trip in the car. 1688mi one way. While it sounds like fun, all my funds would be spent just getting there, and I wouldn't be able to buy anything that I "just couldn't live without". I just can't justify the time from work, or the coins to get there right now. 

This years summer trip is with the boy scouts again, and we're going to Camp Buffalo Bill in late June. 

Next year(which I am really looking forward to) is a 10 day backpacking trek at Philmont. 

So for now, I'll stick to my earlier statement, if the TCA can organize a big meet in Denver, or within 8hrs drive, I'll make it my mission to go at least once. York will have to wait until the kids are outta school I think. Unless they do a summer meet the first weekend in June, then I can go to Carlisle again too


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

*Thanks Brian, will find mine when home and complete it.*

Camp Buffalo Bill is a really good scout camp. We took our troop from Virginia four years ago. Fantastic trip.


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## rlplionel (Dec 5, 2013)

milehighxr said:


> So for now, I'll stick to my earlier statement, if the TCA can organize a big meet in Denver, or within 8hrs drive, I'll make it my mission to go at least once.


Have you checked out the TCA Rocky Mountain Division?

http://www.rmdtoytrains.org/

They have one of the largest toy train meets west of the Mississippi River at least twice a year. There's a show coming up in March:

http://rockymountaintrainshow.com/


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

Robert, 

Been to the rocky mountain toy train show several times. This year was the first year they didn't do the winter show on turkey day weekend. They did it 2-3 weeks later. They also started charging for parking. It seemed like there weren't as many layouts it seemed, and I think the charging for parking kept out some of the folks with really small kids. In years past the swap meet area seemed overwhelmed with too many little kids, without parental control. Maybe I haven't realized it was put on by TCA. 

I don't think I'm gonna go in March, I don't care about free parking, I can pay 5 bucks for that. It just never seems like it's ever been well organized, and there kinda seem to be more, or at least as many, special interest booths as people selling trains. 

I have been thinking about going out to North Platte, and I know there's a show for late May IIRC, in Cheyenne, which is only about an hour or so from my house. There's always a show or 2 in CO Springs, but the one time I went it was really small, I think we completed the circuit twice in 30mins.


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

Bill Webb said:


> Camp Buffalo Bill is a really good scout camp. We took our troop from Virginia four years ago. Fantastic trip.


Quite a haul from VA. We went to Camp Marin Sierra in CA this past year, and road the California Zephyr there and back. That was an adventure, simply because the train was always late. I think we were 6hrs late leaving Denver, and 809 hrs late leaving Truckee CA. I'll take the train again, just not with 18 scouts, and not when I need to be some where the next day. I ended up taking the day after we got home off, or rather the day we got home off, cuz we got into Denver at 1:30am monday. We were supposed to be there at 6:30pm on sunday. 

Our troop is sending 2 crews to do coral reef sailing at Florida sea base this year. My boy won't be old enough for high adventure til next year. That's Philmont, and should be fun. I got to go to Sea base twice when I was a scout in MI. We went in February, and snorkeled the alantic reef, and the gulf reef. 

I really wanna get out to Jambo, but it sounds really pricey.


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## Robbie (Nov 5, 2015)

Your Welcome Koltrains. I always enjoy reading the newsletters that arrive in the mail. A TCA membership really increases the fun and involvement of our hobby.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Filled out the survey the day I got the email. It's great that the TCA is looking to make a great organization even better.


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

Brian (PTC),
My attending York is out of the equation since my unfortunate incident this past September. If my heart surgery turns out well, I may be able to attend next spring.

I wish the best to all on the forum who are able to attend.


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## PW Trains (Nov 5, 2015)

Been a TCA member for 20 years and completed my survey today.

It is my belief that the TCA Museum is unsustainable and a financial burden to TCA membership. At some point hard decisions will have to be made regarding its future.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

PW Trains said:


> It is my belief that the TCA Museum is unsustainable and a financial burden to TCA membership. At some point hard decisions will have to be made regarding its future.


Wow. That's one of the reasons I joined. Not to get free admission once a year, but to try to help ensure that the museum (and the hobby) is always there. Maybe living only an hour and 15 minutes from Strasburg has an affect on my viewpoint.


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## AndyH (Sep 21, 2015)

Did my survey the day I got it. Hopefully they get a good return for the effort.

Andy


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

PW Trains said:


> Been a TCA member for 20 years and ompleted my survey today.
> 
> It is my belief that the TCA Museum is unsustainable and a financial burden to TCA membership. At some point hard decisions will have to be made regarding its future.


I think that is a sentiment shared by a number of individuals.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I belong to go York twice a year. It is an opportunity to meet up with a lot of my friends not so much to buy and sell.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Completed my survey today. I'd be interested in the results across the membership.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2016)

One thing for sure, the leadership should concentrate on working with a balanced budget, whatever it takes.


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## rlomba8204 (Sep 20, 2015)

Brian, I agree.

The biggest financial issue facing TCA in the short to medium term is the museum.

If you look at the publicly available financials (sent to members and filed with the IRS), the TCA's actual assets that have real value (cash, securities, etc.) have declined while the illiquid assets on the balance sheet comprise a more significant portion of net worth. This is an issue because while we all think trains have value, they are not, obviously, financial assets that can be readily used to finance TCA's operation, and even if they could, by definition that is a stop gap measure. The biggest reason for this declining liquidity/financial position is to fund the museum. It is for this same reason that the dues increase a few years ago was unavoidable. Either TCA needs to find some sponsorship for the museum or it will need to be closed -- else it will ruin TCA. There's no running away from that, no matter how neat the museum is. 

The demographics of TCA are the other big challenge. But even that challenge is made more pressing by the financial crush put on by the museum.


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## CHOO-CHOO MIKE (Nov 5, 2015)

milehighxr said:


> Robert,
> 
> Been to the rocky mountain toy train show several times. This year was the first year they didn't do the winter show on turkey day weekend. They did it 2-3 weeks later. They also started charging for parking. It seemed like there weren't as many layouts it seemed, and I think the charging for parking kept out some of the folks with really small kids. In years past the swap meet area seemed overwhelmed with too many little kids, without parental control. Maybe I haven't realized it was put on by TCA.
> 
> ...


 Did you go to the show in Longmont in December ?
They had 3 large 3 rail layouts. lots of 3 rail stuff to buy . And several Boy Scouts operating the layouts. FREE PARKING and no traffic.
The show in North Platte is no more. Sorry to say.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

rlomba8204 said:


> Brian, I agree.
> 
> The biggest financial issue facing TCA in the short to medium term is the museum.
> 
> ...


The demographics are changing. All you need to do is go to York and see all the senior citizens, I'm one of them, roaming the halls. They attempted to attract a younger crowd but I think that has largely failed. When they announced their major increase to their annual dues they lost more than the 10% that was predicted.

Now that the Eastern Division has raised the price to attend York they may also see a decline in attendance.


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## cchancey (Aug 27, 2015)

I just entered my 26th year as a TCA member and completed and submitted my survey form. I share every ones concerns for the TCA's financial issues. The museum is definitely a significant financial burden and declining membership over the past several years has also impacted the financial status of TCA. Also of note, over the past few years, the attendance at the York meets has been on a down slide. In addition, several of the long time vendors/dealers have pulled out and others are planning to pull out over the next few years due to the increased costs charged by the Eastern Division for space, tables, utilities, etc as well as the costs for hotel, food, and travel. Some of my long time friends who own model train stores and have/had set up at York since it first began have told me that they had to pull out, and some others are telling me they are seriously thinking of pulling out, because it has just become too expensive to attend and they do not make any money and actually end up losing money. These vendors/dealers have also told me that before the internet attending the York meets and other train shows was a major part of their business; however, since the internet came on-line, the major part of their business is mail order through their internet web-sites and phone orders, and the latter does not cost them any travel expenses, expenses related to paying to set up at a show, and having to be away from their stores for several days.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

TJSmith said:


> Now that the Eastern Division has raised the price to attend York they may also see a decline in attendance.


I don't think raising the price of the Meet a few bucks will affect attendance all that much. Not for a bunch of guys who spend hundreds for a locomotive, or even a Post War freight car.:dunno:


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2016)

I agree Brian, the small increase for the entrance fee at the York Meet will have virtually no impact on attendance. Still the best bargain for any train show/meet.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Traindiesel said:


> I don't think raising the price of the Meet a few bucks will affect attendance all that much. Not for a bunch of guys who spend hundreds for a locomotive, or even a Post War freight car.:dunno:


Time will tell.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I propose this question to TCA members, on a far fetched thought. If the York event never existed, for those of you that have been going for years, both Spring & Fall!! What benefit would there be, to become a member?

This is strictly IF York never was!! It is just a curious question to ponder.


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

I myself joined just for York Meet but since then have become friends with some of forum members and meeting at York in person is a big high light for me. The Thursday night dinner is a great thing.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2016)

*"The Thursday night dinner is a great thing"*

Bob, you are in for a real treat this coming April. One of the most recognized O-Gauge figures will be our Guest Speaker for the MTF dinner. An announcement is coming soon.


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## ed&bingo (Sep 20, 2015)

I know this will start trouble, but if no modern dealers came to York, I wouldn't miss them one bit.


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## Hudson J1e (Nov 19, 2015)

teledoc said:


> I propose this question to TCA members, on a far fetched thought. If the York event never existed, for those of you that have been going for years, both Spring & Fall!! What benefit would there be, to become a member?
> 
> This is strictly IF York never was!! It is just a curious question to ponder.


Teledoc: Just my opinion but if there suddenly wasn't a York I wouldn't immediately drop out of the TCA. I would give it a wait and see approach. I was once in the NMRA, but because I couldn't participate in any of the local events (they were always on a Saturday morning and I work Saturdays) and the convention were WAY MORE expensive than going to York I decided to drop out. If the TCA had some other events that I could participate in where I could socialize and meet with other train enthusiasts I would keep my membership. I also like that fact that I can write a check to another TCA member and not be questioned on it (sometimes but I have done it).


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

I have never had the opportunity (and looks like never will) to attend York, but have enjoyed my membership by participating to both local and regional TCA sponsored events.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

teledoc said:


> I propose this question to TCA members, on a far fetched thought. If the York event never existed, for those of you that have been going for years, both Spring & Fall!! What benefit would there be, to become a member?
> 
> This is strictly IF York never was!! It is just a curious question to ponder.


I would have never joined. I go to York to meet up with friends I have met through AOL and other forums. If the York meet were to end and not be replaced I would not renew my TCA membership period. 

There was a proposal put forth several years ago by a group of manufacturers to have their own show and to no longer participate at the Eastern Division meet. Baltimore, DC and Northern VA. we're mentioned. Timonium MD has a great venue that could accommodate all the manufacturers and about 500 table holders and hobby shop dealers. Open to the public close to all major RT 95 cities. They woul benefit from the table rental and entry fees.

Does anyone but me remember when Lionel and MTH scaled back their space at York?


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

TJ, no I think they are using the same space. Lionel no longer does the elaborate train display in favor of a work surface to show off their new releases. Makes good sense to save money in this regard.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

TJSmith said:


> …..There was a proposal put forth several years ago by a group of manufacturers to have their own show and to no longer participate at the Eastern Division meet. Baltimore, DC and Northern VA. we're mentioned. Timonium MD has a great venue that could accommodate all the manufacturers and about 500 table holders and hobby shop dealers. Open to the public close to all major RT 95 cities. They woul benefit from the table rental and entry fees…...


Yes, and we're all still waiting for that to happen! I guess they didn't think about footing the bill to rent a building or figure out who was going to organize it and the cost to promote it. I guess in the long run they decided it was easier to let the TCA Eastern Division _volunteers_ handle all of that.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Traindiesel said:


> Yes, and we're all still waiting for that to happen! I guess they didn't think about footing the bill to rent a building or figure out who was going to organize it and the cost to promote it. I guess in the long run they decided it was easier to let the TCA Eastern Division _volunteers_ handle all of that.


I was in Mike Wolfe's office when he was making calls to Lionel and Atlas to coordinate a scaled back York presence. This was a direct result of the economic down turn. A lot of folks don't realize the cost associated with a manufacturer attending a train show. It is thousands of dollars, add to this that no merchandise is sold by the manufacturers, and employee wages, and transportation and hotel costs. The other manufacturers initially agreed to the scaled back presence, but Atlas and Lionel both balked, making MTH look like the bad guys.
When I first went down to Columbia several years ago, the work force was already cut substantially, but now there are even fewer employees. It reminds me of the gradual loss of employees at Weaver, which coupled with declining sales and Joe's desire to retire, ultimately led to its closing. Joe Hayter told me it wasn't fun anymore, and with sales dropping, he was decided it was time to move on. Fortunately, many of his former employees have found other jobs, many were even offered jobs with Lionel because of its plan to produce trains from the tooling it had purchased from Weaver. 
I just talked to Joe the other day, and Lionel has not set up any of the printing equipment; he said they are opting for a newer method, and are still in the process of inventorying and inspecting molds. Mike Reagan talked to a friend and fellow club car committee member from another forum, and informed him that no former Weaver products will be in production until 2017. 
For any entrepreneurial spirits out there, Joe also told me that the molds for the archbar, Bettendorf and roller bearing trucks and couplers are for sale. If anyone is seriously interested, you can contact me, and I'll put you int ouch with Joe.
Don


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

I don't think there is any question that the York Meet is the cement that holds the TCA together. Without this huge benefit, membership would drop significantly. The good folks at the Eastern Division, who put this fabulous Meet for TCA members, deserve a lot of credit. 

Since the labor is all volunteer, I doubt that an attempt by any group to pull out to put on another show would not be cost effective. Paid labor is a huge issue as well an insurance and other costs necessary to put a train show on.


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

CHOO-CHOO MIKE said:


> Did you go to the show in Longmont in December ?
> They had 3 large 3 rail layouts. lots of 3 rail stuff to buy . And several Boy Scouts operating the layouts. FREE PARKING and no traffic.
> The show in North Platte is no more. Sorry to say.



I went once in the spring or summer, there was a gem and mineral show the same time. Small, and not a lot of 3 rail O. I don't care about paying 5 dollars for parking. 

I have been hearing a few locals complaining about the Denver show. I may go in March, but that remains to be seen. 

I think I'm gonna try Cheyenne in the spring. 

When did North Platte stop? I thought I saw it on the schedule for this coming fall?


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> TJ, no I think they are using the same space. Lionel no longer does the elaborate train display in favor of a work surface to show off their new releases. Makes good sense to save money in this regard.


Both MTH and Lionel reduced their space a couple of years ago but since then have gone back.

Has any one noticed that several large dealers have pulled out? The Delivery Track for one. Last October the Brown hall was a goast town. I think that they plan to close it and move the few dealers to other halls.


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## rlomba8204 (Sep 20, 2015)

The York show is simply a victim right now of the changing demographics of the hobby. The TCA ED does a great job of running the show and the volunteers are terrific -- I make a point of saying "thank you" to those folks until I am blue in the face.

A few ideas to try to re-invigorate it and make it more relevant to today's O gauge hobby:

1. A greater emphasis on operating layouts would be of more interest to casual enthusiasts and families. There would still be plenty to see for the collectors and operators who go there to purchase.

2. The timing of the York meet has always been a bit of a curiosity to me, although I understand it has been this way forever. The October meet is a bit early to capitalize on the natural nexus between trains and the Christmas season. The April meet, which I actually really enjoy so this is a bit of a statement against interest, is timed to have zero appeal to people who aren't die-hard O gaugers. It might be worthwhile investigating making the April meet more compact and focused on the core TCA crowd, while moving the October meet forward a bit, more into the Christmas season and, in accordance with #1, increasing the percentage of operating layouts. TCA itself may have to take a role setting up layouts as there will be a bit of exhaustion if the burden always falls to the local clubs. (On the issue of TCA asset allocation, assets that are now currently tied up in the museum could be re-allocated towards making a series of killer modules that could be used for spectacular portable layouts that pique interest in the hobby, instead of displaying many old and admittedly historic toy trains that hold zero interest for 90+ percent of train hobbyists.) 

3. The TCA ED's recent rule changes to allow cell phones and strollers in the halls are all good first steps towards changing the culture of the meet to be more inclusive of younger families and kids. This topic always seems to trigger strong responses, but in years past, particularly when our kids were very small, the no-stroller rule (particularly when power chairs have been allowed) seemed needlessly hostile to families and resulted in a subtle culture that was not welcoming and anti-modern. That may not have been the intent, but it was something that my wife and I noticed. Kids must be well-behaved, and parents must watch them -- I have no patience for ill behaved kids whose parents don't understand that children must have manners and discipline -- but at the same time making the potential future hobby members feel unwelcome isn't smart. The recent rule changes send a signal that the people in charge desire to change this, and I think that is a good development.

My .02, fwiw.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

TJSmith said:


> Both MTH and Lionel reduced their space a couple of years ago but since then have gone back.
> 
> Has any one noticed that several large dealers have pulled out? The Delivery Track for one. Last October the Brown hall was a goast town. I think that they plan to close it and move the few dealers to other halls.


I don't think Public Delivery Track has pulled out of the York Meet. They were also not at last year's Allentown First Frost and Spring Thaw Meets either. From my conversations with Beth, she has a very full personal schedule, along with her father being ill.

Here's what is mentioned on the Public Delivery Track website:

_Sept 3, 2015....
In other news that most of u don't cars about...I'm in Steel Magnolias for 3 more weeks of performances, Vocal jazz workshop and jazz ensemble started in August and go thru Dec., just picked up 2 singing gigs in Sept., back to doing stand-up about once a week, and, auditions for a number of shows coming up. Its all a lot of work, but worth it. _

_Jan 2, 2016…... 
Personally, not that u asked, I'm in rehearsals for Niel Simons "The Dinner Party", School starts next week for the spring, already...and I've got a pretty hefty schedule in drama and music. So this should be interesting!_

When or if they'll be back on the train show tour is anyone's guess. I hope it's soon, it's always a pleasure dealing with them!


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

rlomba8204 said:


> A few ideas to try to re-invigorate it and make it more relevant to today's O gauge hobby:
> 
> 1. A greater emphasis on operating layouts would be of more interest to casual enthusiasts and families. There would still be plenty to see for the collectors and operators who go there to purchase.
> 
> ...


*The TCA does not run the York Meet. It is organized and run by the members of the TCA Eastern Division who volunteer their time to make it happen. With that, Eastern Division members are already the ones who set up their display layouts that have been to the recent Meets. The York Meet has no connection to any financial allocations to the TCA Museum. They are already having a hard enough time to get the layouts displayed that they have. To get more layouts set up, they would need more space. I seriously doubt that they would push out the "old and historic trains" as that is what the TCA was built upon and still has a large following. What statistics have said that there is "zero interest for 90+% of train hobbyists"??!!*


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## rlomba8204 (Sep 20, 2015)

Brian,
My thoughts were suggestions to try to improve the relevance of the meet. York, while it is run by the ED, is the jewel in the crown of TCA and the success of the meet has implications for TCA, obviously. (Ask how many people would join TCA if they could go to York without TCA membership.) I don't say my ideas are perfect or even viable, but they are offered as a way to advance the conversation of how to make the meet more relevant to people who may not now be attending. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with them but at the same time it does appear that there are issues with declining York attendance and TCA membership and so a fresh set of ideas, even if they are not my ideas, could be helpful. That is the spirit in which I offered the post. And on that note, I would be curious as to other ideas that could improve the profile of the meet and the relevance of TCA. I think it is pretty clear that what the TCA has focused on is not growing the membership and is proving to be a financial drain. The Eastern Division and TCA have a mutual interest in working together, using the York meet to the extent possible, to reinvigorate the meet and in so doing reinvigorate TCA. If there were no interest or concern in the trajectory of the TCA, there would not be this wise (on TCA's part) reconsideration of how to make the organization more relevant and more viable in the long term. York naturally comes up in any discussion of TCA because the two are so inexorably linked. 
Take care,
Ray


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## CHOO-CHOO MIKE (Nov 5, 2015)

milehighxr said:


> I went once in the spring or summer, there was a gem and mineral show the same time. Small, and not a lot of 3 rail O. I don't care about paying 5 dollars for parking.
> 
> I have been hearing a few locals complaining about the Denver show. I may go in March, but that remains to be seen.
> 
> ...


 The Boulder Model Railroad Clubs show in Longmont is always in December. They do share the hall with the Rock and Mineral show. It provides more things for kids to do and shows the hobby to people who might never go to a train show. Also a train guy going to the show might get out spent by his wife at the other show. You get to see both shows for 5 bucks.
As I said before we had 3 large 3 rail layouts this year that you never see set up at the Denver show.
I don't know why they stopped RAILFEST in North Platte. I was planning on going this year with my camper. When I checked their website it said it is no more.
Cheyenne is pretty good in May . Only one 3 layout last year in the Depot. Some great HO layouts.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Ray, I was also just having a conversation about this, no angst was intended. I was responding according to what I've observed at the Meet. Your suggestions are fine. I don't know what the answers are for TCA to increase membership. 

Because of all the other electronic distractions, it's difficult to get most kids interested in the hobby. I've struggled to get my grandkids interested in the hobby. They like to see the trains but gravitate back to their devices after a few minutes of operating the trains. I don't know how TCA can change that.

My suggestion would be to hold the Meet on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. More working people, and kids, could attend and possibly add some new members. But that sounds too easy. There must be a reason that hasn't happened.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Maybe TCA can develop some sort of App for the electronic devices to highlight model railroading, with links to the many different aspects of the hobby, and the resources avail;able, and the electronic technology that is now part of model train operation
As for York, I'd like to see it go back to a two day show. Friday Saturday, or Saturday Sunday. Most public shows are on weekends for the reason of attracting more folks. Although, at one time, one half of the thirty some thousand membership attended York according to figures by Eastern Division. Of course, this included guests and spouses.
Don


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

One of the deterrents to having more operating layouts is the rules concerning video taping the operations. 

One of my friends who is part of a Standard Gauge modular group said they were invited to display at the York meet in the Black Hall but were prohibited from filming. They wanted to tape the operation to send to other venues. They were not offered nor did they expect an honorarium but were taking on all the costs themselves. Because of that they declined the invitation.

BTW: They have a fabulous layout and very unique.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

We had a conversation with Dick Maddox when he was President of Lionel concerning the York meet and increasing attendance by opening it to the public. He said that because of the location of the meet he did not see that as any advantage. If it were to be moved to somewhere closer to the Baltimore Washington 95 corridor that might make a difference.

However that is never going to happen. 

BTW: When they held the Worlds Greatest Hobby show in Oaks PA just outside of Philadelphia a few years ago they had over 50 thousand attend the event. That show was open to the public it was so overwhelming that the local highways were shut down with many more not able to get near the site.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We had our modular layout at the Worlds Greatest Hobby show when it was in Oaks, it was a great time and we had lots of visitors! It was a mob scene, but very enjoyable, one of the best modular outings we've had. All the people made you think all the work to put on the display was worth the effort.


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## Hudson J1e (Nov 19, 2015)

rlomba8204 said:


> The York show is simply a victim right now of the changing demographics of the hobby. The TCA ED does a great job of running the show and the volunteers are terrific -- I make a point of saying "thank you" to those folks until I am blue in the face.
> 
> A few ideas to try to re-invigorate it and make it more relevant to today's O gauge hobby:
> 
> ...


Overall, I like your ideas Ray. Kudos for coming up with something that might help. 

As for changing the days of the meet I would strongly suggest that Sunday NOT BE INCLUDED. I go to a HUGE car show in Ohio every year, or at least what used to be a HUGE car show every year and it is suffering from the same problems as the York Meet. Sunday is DEAD! Most of the people go home on Sunday and it is so empty that if I do go on Sunday I only go for an hour or so and then I go home. Most of the time I just go home. So if a day change is considered the only way they can go (IMHO) is to make Saturday the "big" day and have the meet Friday and Saturday. This way any folks that have a long trip home can travel on the Sunday. Also families, which usually have to work on Fridays, that are close enough to do a day trip can attend Saturday and not have to take off from work. Of course they can do that now but they have to get there early as I have heard that many of vendors are gone by noon. It sometimes isn't easy to get little kids out of the house real early in the morning. However, I am sure the TCA ED has a good reason for doing it on the days they do it (other than tradition) and will not be changing the days of the meet anytime soon.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

I have only been in TCA two years; have never gone to York, even though it is less than 5 hours away; but have gone to the Pittsburgh TCA swap meets. I ran into a number of friends I only knew from online there. Already visited one guy's home. My wife and his wife hit it off really well.

All that said; yes I submitted my survey.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Mark,

You gotta come to York, you will be blown away.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Craig,
Yes I believe you are right!


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

rlomba8204 said:


> 3. The TCA ED's recent rule changes to allow cell phones and strollers in the halls are all good first steps towards changing the culture of the meet to be more inclusive of younger families and kids. This topic always seems to trigger strong responses, but in years past, particularly when our kids were very small, the no-stroller rule (particularly when power chairs have been allowed) seemed needlessly hostile to families and resulted in a subtle culture that was not welcoming and anti-modern. That may not have been the intent, but it was something that my wife and I noticed. Kids must be well-behaved, and parents must watch them -- I have no patience for ill behaved kids whose parents don't understand that children must have manners and discipline -- but at the same time making the potential future hobby members feel unwelcome isn't smart. The recent rule changes send a signal that the people in charge desire to change this, and I think that is a good development.
> 
> My .02, fwiw.


I have kids, and have taken them to my local shows when they were younger, but at least walking on their own. I have to say that I am 100% anti stroller, kids under 6 in the swap meet areas. It makes those areas too crowded, and sometimes even my 13 yr old has a hard time with looking with his eyes and not his hands. I know that the little kids in the swap meet areas really tweeks the vednors, and it has caused some to leave our local show. 

This year with paid parking I think it cut down on the number of people with small kids wandering the swap meet areas. Of course it also was not held on turkey day weekend either...


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## rlomba8204 (Sep 20, 2015)

TJSmith said:


> One of the deterrents to having more operating layouts is the rules concerning video taping the operations.
> 
> One of my friends who is part of a Standard Gauge modular group said they were invited to display at the York meet in the Black Hall but were prohibited from filming. They wanted to tape the operation to send to other venues. They were not offered nor did they expect an honorarium but were taking on all the costs themselves. Because of that they declined the invitation.
> 
> BTW: They have a fabulous layout and very unique.


In this day and age this rule strikes me as outdated but I would want to hear more about the reason it was instituted in the first place.


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## rlomba8204 (Sep 20, 2015)

milehighxr said:


> I have kids, and have taken them to my local shows when they were younger, but at least walking on their own. I have to say that I am 100% anti stroller, kids under 6 in the swap meet areas. It makes those areas too crowded, and sometimes even my 13 yr old has a hard time with looking with his eyes and not his hands. I know that the little kids in the swap meet areas really tweeks the vednors, and it has caused some to leave our local show.
> 
> This year with paid parking I think it cut down on the number of people with small kids wandering the swap meet areas. Of course it also was not held on turkey day weekend either...


I understand. One thing that is interesting to me is that the personnel at Lionel and MTH are always very enthused to see the kids, and the folks working for the bigger vendors like Charlie Ro are as well.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

rlomba8204 said:


> In this day and age this rule strikes me as outdated but I would want to hear more about the reason it was instituted in the first place.[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm not sure why but that is what my friend told me. Maybe it has changed.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2016)

Our members are to be congratulated. This is the most civil discussion of the TCA I have seen in recent memory on any forum. What is typical on other resources is a trashing. We sure don't need that.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

rlomba8204 said:


> In this day and age this rule strikes me as outdated but I would want to hear more about the reason it was instituted in the first place.


This rule has been changed for a few years now, photography is allowed in the dealer halls, and in the hall with layouts, which I believe is now the White Hall. Photography is still prohibited in the member halls. Cell phones are OK now in all halls. Strollers are now allowed too. TCA just needs to figure out a way to attract new members, both young and old.
Don


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