# LED's --> How To For A Model Train Layout..



## ED-RRR

*Special Notes:*
- I found a [DCC] sound decoder that requires the locomotive bulbs be replaced by LED's.. (Newer ESU Decoders)..
- I found newer locomotives now using LED's..
- I found several independent [DCC] web sites recommending to exchange the locomotive bulbs --> LED's..
Ex: http://tonystrains.com/installing-leds-with-dcc-decoders/

*Miniatronics: (Bulbs)*
Micro Miniature Bulbs.. (Incandescent Lamps)..
http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=1_1

*Special Notes:*
- At it's time, Miniatronics was the biggest seller for model railroad incandescent bulbs..
- Now "Only" selling 1.2MM (.047") Dia. --> 2.4MM (.094") Dia. incandescent bulbs..
- Also very costly with a limited bulb life time..
- There are also other venders still available.. *(For How Long - Same Exact Bulbs)..*








*I use LED's for my complete [HO] layout..*
*Many Great Advantages:*
- Operates much cooler..
- Many different available "Colors"..
- Many different available "Sizes".. 
- Different available "Features".. (Bi-Polar - Red & Green Colors)..
- Different available "Features".. (Solid Colored - Flashing)..
- Will last for a life time on a model train layout.. (No Future Maintenance Required).. 
- Unlimited different usages available.. 
- Also very much cheaper ($'s)..

*Sizes: *
1.8MM (.071") Dia. LED's..
3.0MM (.118") Dia. LED's..
5.0MM (.197") Dia. LED's..







*Shapes: *
- Round Heads (Limited Viewing Angle)
- Cone Heads (Larger Viewing Angle)








*Flashing: *
- Will "Flash" -OR- "Candle Flicker"..








*Colors:*
- There are many different colors available..
- Warning: Do "Not" use "White" LED's --> Give's off a "Blue Tint"..
- Use "Warm White" LED's --> Give's off a "Soft Yellow Tint".. 








*Texture:*
- There are "Clear Solid Colored" LED's that give off a "Shiny Clear" color..
- There are "Foggy Non-Colored" LED's that give off a "Dull" color..








=======================

*What LED's should I use ?? (List)..*
- Size
- Shape 
- Viewing Angle
- Flashing or Non-Flashing
- Color
- Texture

To Be Continued..
--> LED's require *"Resistors"* to function correctly..

To Be Continued..
--> --> Will show different *"Examples"* how different LED's can be used..
......


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## gunrunnerjohn

You missed one of the most useful LED's for model train use.  This is the 2mm ceramic Lumex LED that is used in many model train applications for obvious reasons. It's the smallest 2mm LED you can find. It comes in red, green, or yellow.


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## ED-RRR

*"Smallest LED Available"..*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's the smallest 2mm LED you can find.


*2. MM - LED = (.079") Dia. *

I posted a 1.8 MM LED = (.071") Dia. a "Smaller LED" available in many different colors:








......


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks again at the one you posted. It has a huge base that makes it unsuitable for many purposes. In total, it's physically much larger than the ceramic LED. Look at a host of Lionel, MTH, Atlas, and other makers, and you'll find they use a lot of the ceramic LED's I posted simply because they're the only things that fit.

Oh, and I did say it was the smallest 2mm LED, I see nothing in your post that suggests that's not true.


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## ED-RRR

*Required Resistors & Technical Information..*

LED's operate at a very "Low" V-DC power supply and suggested operating amperage.. (mA)..
There are many different types of LED's operating at different V-DC and mA..
LED's require "Correct" polarity connections..

LED Calculator: (Resistor)
http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz
- Be sure to observe the required LED V-DC and suggested mA required..

*LED calculator: current limiting resistor value:*
- Source Voltage --> [power supply V-DC to the LED]..
- Diode Forward Voltage --> [LED required V-DC power supply]..
- Diode Forward Current (mA) --> [LED recommended mA] 

*Example: (LED)*
- Power supply = 12.V-DC
- LED voltage = 3.4V-DC
- LED current = 20 mA

*Special Notes:*
- To "Reduce" LED "Brightness" --> Use a slightly "Higher" resistor.. 
- To "Increase" LED "Brightness" --> Use a slightly "Lower" resistor.. 









*LED Power Connections:*
- Correct V-DC power connections are required for "LED's"..
- The "Longest" connection from the LED --> Always (+) V-DC power supply..









......


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## ED-RRR

*Example #1 --> 1.8/2.MM Dia. "Flashing LED's"*

*Special Notes..*
The "Same" LED is called 1.8MM (.071") Dia. -OR- 2.MM Dia. (.078") Dia.
Most sellers use the term 2.MM Dia. (.078") Dia.
I do "Not" recommend using the "Flat Top" LED's..

*Different LED Options:*
- Available in many different colors..
- Solid color -OR- Clear colored LED's..









*Examples: (Yellow Flashing)*
- Fork lift truck..
- Tow truck..
- Construction equipment









*Examples: (Red Flashing)*
- Fire truck
- Old police car
- High communication tower
- High water tower
- High structure like a grain elevator 









*Advanced [DCC] Usage:*
- Some modern locomotives have a "Yellow" flashing light on top of the locomotive cab..









- Many [DCC] decoders operate differently..
- Advanced [DCC] decoders like "SoundTraxx" have auxiliary functions where this "Flashing" LED can be connected to..

*Warning:*
- This procedure has "Not" been "Tested"..
- Many [DCC] decoders give out enough (mA) to supply "Bulbs"..
- Maybe add a "Flashing Yellow" LED on the top of the locomotive cab..
- Parallel wire connection..
















......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *Special Notes..*
> 
> View attachment 163314
> 
> 
> ......


This one won't work properly as you have both headlight and rear light tied together on the grounds [function leads] ..selecting either front or back light will turn all three on at the same time


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## ED-RRR

*Modern Diesel Locomotives..*



wvgca said:


> This one won't work properly as you have both headlight and rear light tied together on the grounds
> [function leads] .. selecting either front or back light will turn all three on at the same time


Hi; [wvgca] 
Thanks for your reply.._:smilie_daumenpos:_

Thanks for your "Update" but does it really matter ??
Diesel locomotives "Always" have "Front" and "Rear" lights "Lighted" (On)..
......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> Hi; [wvgca]
> Thanks for your reply.._:smilie_daumenpos:_
> 
> Thanks for your "Update" but does it really matter ??
> Diesel locomotives "Always" have "Front" and "Rear" lights "Lighted" (On)..
> ......


Oh, didn't realize that, I just have mostly geared stem on my layout, no diesel at all, and only turn light on for direction of travel, not both all the time


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## gunrunnerjohn

One wonders why every diesel model on the planet has directional lighting if that were true. Hard to imagine every manufacturer has this so wrong. Got any reference that states that is true?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Obviously, there's a reason that most model have directional lighting, so do real diesel trains. This is from the following reference.

NORAC OPERATING RULES, TENTH EDITION - Effective November 6, 2011



> 22. Engine Lights
> a. Headlight
> *The headlight facing the direction of movement on every train and engine must
> be displayed brightly by day and night.* Engines in yard service must display the
> headlight to the front and rear, by day and by night.
> EXCEPTIONS: The headlight must be dimmed under the following conditions,
> except when approaching or passing over public highway crossings at grade:
> 1. While standing or passing through yards where other engines are working.
> 2. When approaching a station where a Form D is to be received.
> 3. When approaching junctions or terminals.
> 4. When standing or moving on a main track at meeting points.
> 5. When standing or when approaching another train operating in the opposite
> direction in multiple track territory.
> 
> *The headlight may be extinguished:
> 1. On the end of an engine coupled to cars.
> *2. When standing on other than a main track.
> 3. When standing to be met or to be passed by another train in signaled territory.
> 4. When left unattended on the main track in signaled territory.
> If all headlight bulbs fail en route, the Engineer must take the following actions:
> 1. Illuminate all external engine lights that can be illuminated (except red
> strobe light).
> 2. Notify the Dispatcher as soon as practical.
> 3. Ring the bell continuously, if equipped.
> 4. Sound the engine whistle or horn frequently.
> 5. Approach all public highway crossings at grade prepared to stop. Train may
> proceed over crossing not exceeding 20 MPH. Speed applies to head end only.
> 6. Reduce speed at other locations when required by the prevailing conditions,
> not exceeding 50 MPH at night.
> EXCEPTION: These restrictions do not apply when the train has operable
> auxiliary lights.


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## ED-RRR

*Example #2 --> Track Signals..*

I purchased all of my required track signals many years ago, only using NJ International.. (100% Brass - Painted)..
They sure were a lot cheaper in *($'s) *at that time..
http://www.njinternational.com/index.htm

*Special Note: *
- Model Power (Manufacture) still has some available track signals.. (Limited Choices - Also Not That Cheap In $'s).. 









*Special Note: *
- Some track signals look like this.. (Toy Like).. 









All of my track signals (NJ International) have the single round disk with reflector (SA Type Target)..
All supplied with colored cheap quality bulbs.. (Red, Yellow, Green)..









*Special Notes: *
My Present Work In Progress..
Replace the cheap colored "Bulbs" to LED's for unlimited track signals operating life.. (No Future Maintenance Required).. 
My track signals purposes..
- To add some realism to a miniature [HO] world, model train layout.. 
- To inform me what tracks (x2) and directions are in use in my hidden mountain..
- Independent track signals informing regarding "Reverse Loop - Power Supply"..

*Special Notes:*
Why not make your own lighted track signals saving a lot of ($'s)..
- LED's give off very little to no "Heat"..
- Why not use Bachmann Trains - Block Signals (#42101).. (All Plastic).. ($3.00 Each)..
- Mount lighted LED's into these track signals..
- Use actual "Functional" track signals -OR- just add "Lighted" track signals..

*Assembly: (HO Scale)*
- Require (x2) 3.MM (.118") Dia. LED's (Red and Green)..
- This way both (x2) track signals "Lights" look the "Same"..









To Be Continued..
--> Will also show how to use special LED's for "Realistic" --> "Structure Lighting"..

To Be Continued..
--> Will also show how to use special LED's for "Realistic" --> "Street Lighting"..

To Be Continued..
--> Will also show how to use "Custom Power Supplies" to "Control LED's" wanted "Brightness" for "Realistic" --> "Structure Lighting" and "Street Lighting"..

......


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## ED-RRR

*Example #3 --> Structure Lighting..*

Improve the appearance of a train layout for *"Night Time"..*

There are many different types of "LED Holders" that come in different "Sizes"..
For structure lighting I use this type of LED holder..
Notice the optional "Ring" that locks the LED into the holder..

I would also recommend using a "Warm White" LED's --> Give's off a "Soft Yellow Tint".. 









Place lighting inside any type of structure..
Most industrial loading docks have above awnings where lighting can be also added..
If you have a roundhouse, add internal lighting to assist for "Night Time" usage..









......


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## ED-RRR

*"Government Laws" for "Model Railroading"..*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Obviously, there's a reason that most model have directional lighting, so do real diesel trains.
> This is from the following reference.


Your not serious about using NORAC OPERATING RULES, TENTH EDITION - Effective November 6, 2011..
I am talking about *"Model Railroading"..*
Why are you talking about *"Government Laws"..
*
There is also an optional simple solution if one wants to have roof top "Strobe Light..
Just "Remove" the locomotive "Backup Light".. 









......


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## ED-RRR

*Example #4 --> Street Lights..*

Improve the appearance of a train layout for *"Night Time"..*

There are many different types of street lights available on Ebay..
Most of them are using cheap made light bulbs..
In some cases the open light bulbs are quite large.. (Toy Like)..









There are also available street lights using LED's..
I believe that most or all of them gives off a "Blue" color glow..
Some of them also have large LED's.. (Toy Like)..
For [HO] Scale, replace the "Bulbs" -OR- "LED"S with 3MM (.118") Dia. "Warm White" LED's --> Give's off a "Soft Yellow Tint".. 









......


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## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> Your not serious about using NORAC OPERATING RULES, TENTH EDITION - Effective November 6, 2011..
> I am talking about *"Model Railroading"..*
> Why are you talking about *"Government Laws"..
> *


Of course I'm serious. Let's try to remember that when most folks "model" something, they're emulating the real prototype, that's what "modeling" is. To refresh your memory, you said.


ED-RRR said:


> Diesel locomotives "Always" have "Front" and "Rear" lights "Lighted" (On)...


That is obviously not correct. Those "Government laws" are what real prototype roads operate under. The reason that you see virtually all diesel models with directional lighting is simply the fact that's the way it's done in the real world.


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## Lemonhawk

Doesn't the jumper across the front and rear head lite outputs of the decoder short out both, and ruin the decoder?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Lemonhawk, I suggest there are some inaccuracies in the advice, best to find your own way.


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## ED-RRR

*"Flashing Beacon"*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Lemonhawk, I suggest there are some inaccuracies in the advice, best to find your own way.


There are "No" *(some inaccuracies)* inaccuracies in my advice !!









Do you know how *[DCC] *electronics works !!
The internal (IC) relay will "Only" activate the "Forward Headlight -OR- the "Backup Light"..
"Not" both at the "Same" time..
......


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## ED-RRR

*Example #5 --> Custom Power Supplies..*

You are improving the appearance of a train layout for *"Night Time"* using LED's..

*Warning:* --> LED's operate at very low V-DC power supply and require *"Resistors"..*
Many different LED's operate at different V-DC power supply and at recommended mA.. (Amps)..
The brightness of an LED is determined by the V-DC input and applied resistor..









*Special Notes:*
Maybe your "Track Signals" - "Structure Lighting" - "Street Lights" are "Not" what you really wanted..
Why not use a "Variable" V-DC power supply to be able to do fine adjustments for LED's "Brightness"..

Connect (x1) "Variable" V-DC power supply to control --> "Track Signals".. 
Connect (x1) "Variable" V-DC power supply to control --> "Structure Lighting"..
Connect (x1) "Variable" V-DC power supply to control --> "Street Lights"..

*Variable V-DC Power Supply:*
Many on Ebay posted (very cheap $'s)..
LM2596 Step Down Module DC-DC Buck Converter Power Supply Output 1.3V-35V 

*Specifications:*
Module property: Non-isolation buck
Rectification mode: non-Synchronous rectifier
Input voltage: 4V-40V
Output voltage: 1.3V-35V
Output current: Rated current is 2A, maximum 3A (Additional heatsink is required)
Output ripple: 30mV (maximum )
Load regulation: ±0.5%
*Voltage regulation: ± 2.5%*
Work temperature: -40? - +85?
dimension: 43mm*21mm*14mm (L*W*G)
*Warning: This unit can "Not" increase V-DC power supply "Output"..*









*Special Notes: *
Since the (Voltage Regulation ± 2.5%) I would still recommend adding a "Resistor" to each LED..
*- BUT -*
Only add a "Resistor" at *1/2 *the required Ohm's "Resistor" required..
This will allow for the LED's to become a little "Brighter"..
This is an example how to connect "Street Lights"..
Each street light LED has a connected "Resistor"..









*Special Notes: *
Each "Buck Converter" will require a "Separate" power supply..
Require a 12.V-DC power supply at 1.Amp (1000 mA) "Minimum"..
The total "Power" (Wattage) = Amps x Volts..
*Warning:* --> The total "Power Input" can "Not" be "Less" than the "Power Output"..









======================

*WARNING:*
- Never "Increase" the *V-DC *power supply to *"High"*to the LED's..
- This may/will "Burn" out the LED's..

......


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## ED-RRR

*Lumex 2.MM Ceramic Base LED's..*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You missed one of the most useful LED's for model train use.
> This is the 2mm ceramic Lumex LED that is used in many model train applications for obvious reasons.
> It's the smallest 2mm LED you can find. It comes in red, green, or yellow.











*I never posted this LED because I have "Never" seen it before..*
- Lumex 2.MM Ceramic Base LED..
- Only (x1) manufacture for this LED..
- There is "Not" (x1) international Ebay selling this "Type" of LED.. (Why ??)..
- Only comes in (x1) size 2.MM (.079") Dia. 
- Only comes in red, green, or yellow.. (Only Solid Colors)..
- Can "Not" be used with a panel "LED Holder"..




gunrunnerjohn said:


> Look at a host of Lionel, MTH, Atlas, and other makers, and you'll find they use a lot of the ceramic LED's I posted simply
> because they're the only things that fit.


*Lionel: (LED's)*
http://www.superlumination.com/trainbulbs_leds.htm
http://www.discountleds.com/trainbulbs.htm

You posted *[gunrunnerjohn]* that Lionel, MTH, Atlas, and other makers use a lot of the *"Ceramic LED's".. *
Could you "Please" indicate where even a "Lionel Supplier" is selling "Ceramic LED's" for these [O] scale locomotives.. 









......


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## wvgca

those ceramic base leds seem to be more pricey than standard leds, on ebay the higher power [10 mcd] were around 50 cents each, another supplier had a reel of standard power [6 mcd] for 89 bucks for 3000 pieces, still kind of pricey ... but I guess there is a premium to pay for something that will fit where larger ones won't, even the 1.8mm ones with the huge base .
I just use the basic 3mm or 5mm, and for ditch lights, etc I use the tiny SMD ones, those are really cheap ...


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## gunrunnerjohn

Haven't you given up yet? MTH doesn't provide pictures, but in many of their locomotives and tenders, and in every PS/2 or PS/3 upgrade kit, they include the 2mm ceramic LED marker harnesses. 

Green L.E.D. with wire leads (2 LEDs in series) MTH # CE-0000029
RED L.E.D. with wire leads (2 LEDs in series) MTH # CE-0000030

Lionel thoughtfully provides graphics as well. Again, look at virtually any later command locomotive with class lights or markers, and any tender markers, and you'll find these LED's as well.

















Why is it so important to you to prove me wrong?


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## ED-RRR

*gunrunnerjohn - Forum Administrator..*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> One wonders why every diesel model on the planet has directional lighting if that were true.
> Hard to imagine every manufacturer has this so wrong.





gunrunnerjohn said:


> Obviously, there's a reason that most model have directional lighting, so do real diesel trains.
> This is from the following reference.
> NORAC OPERATING RULES, TENTH EDITION - Effective November 6, 2011





gunrunnerjohn said:


> Haven't you given up yet?
> Why is it so important to you to prove me wrong?


*(#1)*
When I posted my very (1st) "Thread" in this "Forum", I was attacked by many different individuals..
Actual "Facts" must be shown to prove any statements in this "Forum".. (Even The Administrator)..



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Lemonhawk, I suggest there are some inaccuracies in the advice, best to find your own way.


Never Proven from *[gunrunnerjohn] --> Any Inaccuracies Never Posted*

*(#2)*
[gunrunnerjohn] is the "Administrator" of this "Forum"..
Why is it his determination [gunrunnerjohn] to attack me "Only" regarding locomotive lighting ??
Even when it comes to [DCC] operations..

===================

*Special Notes: (#1)*
Since yesterday, Thursday March 31 / 2016:
- No individual has "Backed" you up with any replies !! __
- No individual has "Attacked" me directly in any way !! Thanks" _:smilie_daumenpos:_

*Special Notes: (#2)*
- To be posted (New Thread)
- Regarding [gunrunnerjohn] found in a "Different Forum" giving many suggestions..
- Where are his present priorities ?? 
......


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## mat007413

All I can say is "wow"


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *(#1)*
> When I posted my very (1st) "Thread" in this "Forum", I was attacked by many different individuals..
> ......


 Sorry, but I am a bit confused .. as far as I can tell, your first thread post here [on Model Train Forum], was on 08-31-2015 ... about seven months ago, and the only reply was from gunrunnerjohn ...and simply said ...

"Hi, and welcome to the forum.
I've moved your post to a more appropriate forum section, you should get more action here. " 

Maybe I'm missing something, but that didn't seem to be any kind of attack ???? :dunno:


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## Mark R.

ED-RRR said:


> There are "No" *(some inaccuracies)* inaccuracies in my advice !!
> 
> View attachment 164257
> 
> 
> Do you know how *[DCC] *electronics works !!
> The internal (IC) relay will "Only" activate the "Forward Headlight -OR- the "Backup Light"..
> "Not" both at the "Same" time..
> ......


Well, you're obviously showing your wiring ignorance on how to wire a decoder output. If you turn on the white wire, it will power up both the headlight AND the dome light. If you turn on only the yellow wire, it too will turn on both the headlight and the dome light. Look at your wiring ....

Mark.


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## gunrunnerjohn

No Mark, there are no inaccuracies, ask him if you don't believe that.


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## Mark R.

gunrunnerjohn said:


> No Mark, there are no inaccuracies, ask him if you don't believe that.


Right .... I forgot about that ....

Mark.


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## wvgca

In general, the information is good .. ED-RRR, you do spend time gathering the information and good images from the net .. and it's helpful to many users , and informative ... 
and in my opinion, I would prefer to see ED-RRR's willingness to help, and his posts continue ... I definitely do consider the added information to be a benefit to the forum, and to the forum users in general ..


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## gunrunnerjohn

I agree there is a lot of good information, it's just the attitude that is a little out of kilter.


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## ED-RRR

*Clarification Required..(Update)..*



Mark R. said:


> Well, you're obviously showing your wiring ignorance on how to wire a decoder output.
> If you turn on the white wire, it will power up both the headlight AND the dome light.
> If you turn on only the yellow wire, it too will turn on both the headlight and the dome light.
> Look at your wiring ....Mark.


Hello *[Mark]:*_:smilie_daumenpos:_..
Please follow in sequence of the postings..
This is where I can totally understand and see the *"Confusion".. *
The actual article meaning *(Decoder Beacon)* from the beginning was confusing..
*(#1)*


Lemonhawk said:


> Doesn't the jumper across the front and rear head lite outputs of the decoder *short out* both, and ruin the decoder?


*(#2)*


gunrunnerjohn said:


> Lemonhawk, I suggest there are some *inaccuracies* in the advice, best to find your own way.


*(#3)*


ED-RRR said:


> There are "No" *(some inaccuracies)* inaccuracies in my advice !!
> Do you know how *[DCC] *electronics works !!
> The internal (IC) relay will "Only" activate the "Forward Headlight -OR- the "Backup Light"..
> "Not" both at the "Same" time..


*Clarification Required..(Update)..*
I should have clarified that it was to explain that this "Wiring" would "Not" effect the wiring for the "Backup Light" to the "Decoder"..
- The "Backup Light" is replaced with the "Top Beacon"..
- The "Head Light" is only "On" when the locomotive is going "Forward"..
- The "Top Beacon" is always "On"..

Warning:
- Picture Updated
- A required "Resistor" will be also "Required" for the "Flashing LED"..
- If the "Head Light" is also a LED, it will require a "Resistor"..









......


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## Mark R.

Nope - still wrong. The front headlight and the beacon will BOTH be on regardless of direction because you have the white and yellow wires tied together.

The yellow wire should NOT be connected to the white wire. The yellow wire should only go to the beacon. If you want the beacon to be on regardless of direction, it should be changed in the function mapping from "headlight / reverse" to "constant on" and mapped to its own function button.

Mark.


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## ED-RRR

*Inaccuracies Attacks - (Again)..*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> No Mark, there are no *inaccuracies*, ask him if you don't believe that.


Another totally false attack (*Inaccuracies*) attacking me *personally* from *[gunrunnerjohn]*..__..
Not allowing me the time to *"Correct"* -OR- *"Update" *my posted information..__.. *(Forum Administrator)*..__.. 

Unlike *[wvgca] *who first communicates trying to rectify any errors, *[Mark R.]* attacked my wiring ignorance..
I let it go, because *[Mark R.]* is not totally at fault..
Because of how *"Threads"* work, a lot of detailed information is *"Lost"*..
......


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## ED-RRR

*Decoder Lighting Functions..*



Mark R. said:


> Nope - still wrong.
> The front headlight and the beacon will BOTH be on regardless of direction
> because you have the white and yellow wires tied together.
> Mark.


*A.O.K. *
I stand corrected..

So the "Head Light" and "Flashing Beacon" will be always "On"..
Lets just allow each individual have their own choice..

*Question: #1*
Why are individuals in this *"Forum"*, like *[Mark R.]* and some *"Others"*, their only goal is to* "Attack" *posted *"Incorrect" *information.. 
Actually *"Not"* posting any *"Helpful"* information -->* For Other Individuals..*

*Question: #2*
Is this what *"Model Railroading"* has now become ??
......


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## gregc

ED-RRR said:


> Another totally false attack (*Inaccuracies*) attacking me


*

questioning or disagreeing with a comment is not an attack.*


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## wvgca

ED-RRR , referencing the image in your last post ....
wouldn't it be easier just to wire in the front and rear lights seperately [white and yellow] as normally shown in decoder supplied documentation as [recommended practice] .. and then use one of the addition light function leads [four additional shown in your image] to drive the beacon?? either a flashing beacon led, or a standard led using the decoder on board 'light effects' ??
I realize some older decoders only have two function outputs, but _most_ current models have either four or six in total ..
basically, in your shown image, why force alterations on two outputs when six are available??
If it matters, I actually do have one old diesel switcher on the display rack with a roof mounted flashing bacon, DC [not DCC], using a bridge rectifier, 3v zener, current limiting resistor, and led with internal flash circuitry, turns on about the same voltage as the loco requires to start moving ..


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## ED-RRR

*Thank You Very Much..[wvgca]..*



wvgca said:


> In general, the information is good ..
> ED-RRR, you do spend time gathering the information and good images from the net ..
> and it's helpful to many users , and informative ...
> and in my opinion, I would prefer to see ED-RRR's willingness to help, and his posts continue ...
> I definitely do consider the added information to be a benefit to the forum,
> and to the forum users in general ..


*[wvgca]*
Thanks for your total support and recommendations.._ :smilie_daumenpos: _...
Greatly appreciated..
You are the *"Only"* supporter I have in this *"Forum".*.
......


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## ED-RRR

*Not An Attack !!*



gregc said:


> questioning or disagreeing with a comment is not an attack.


*(#1)*
An individual can *"Question" *a comment at any time..
That is why there is this *"Forum"..*

*(#2)*
An individual can *"Disagree"* with a *"Technical"* comment at any time..
*- But -*
This individual should just *"Try"* to supply a comment to prove their required *"Corrections"*..

*(#3)*


gunrunnerjohn said:


> No Mark, there are no inaccuracies, ask him if you don't believe that.


This a *"Personal Attack"* against me, without any *"Actual Proof"..*
*[gregc]*: You decide..
......


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## ED-RRR

*[wvgca] ..Posting #37*



wvgca said:


> ED-RRR , referencing the image in your last post ....
> wouldn't it be easier just to wire in the front and rear lights seperately [white and yellow] as normally shown in decoder supplied documentation as [recommended practice] ..
> ETC:.......


We both *[wvgca] *and myself *[Ed-RRR] *could try to help many in this project..
-But-
There are too many different *"Variables"* to consider.when looking at *[DCC]* decoders..
- Manufacture of [DCC] decoder..
- Basic, Advanced, Professional, [DCC] decoders..
- Type of decoder [With DCC sound]..
......


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## Mark R.

That's a good one ! There isn't a single forum out there that ANYbody gets paid to work on - they are all strictly volunteers. Remember that the next time you go bashing an Administrator. They are spending their own free time trying to keep things in line and not getting a single penny to do so.

Mark.


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## wvgca

If this forum is similar to others, moderators and admins are voluntary positions ... no cash value attached ...most cases simply for the love of the hobby
the only ones that may make money are forum owners, that are willing to display advertising, usually less than a penny per view, and maybe a couple of pennies if you actually click on the ad

by the way, a *big thanks* to the admins and moderators for keeping [or at least trying], to keep the forum here running smoothly, and for patiently answering repeated [and sometimes dumb] questions :thumbsup:


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## Mark R.

My experience having owned a couple forums and being an Administrator on two others, the ads are usually forced upon you by the company that hosts the site. The creator / owner of the forum, through the host site, is required to PAY to keep the forum ad free, should they elect to do so. The busier the site is, the more it costs to have the site ad free. No doubt in the case of this forum, with the high traffic volume, it's probably cost prohibitive to keep the ads at bay. The owner of the forum generates zero revenue. The host site (Jelsoft Enterprises in our case here) would be the ones generating income from the ads, not the owner of this particular forum.

Mark.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Mark, Jelsoft doesn't own the forum any more, VerticalScope now owns and hosts it.


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## wvgca

ED-RRR ... instead of using straight jumpers, adding in diodes will enable normal F0 FWD and F0 REV light operation, and will enable beacon in either direction, and beacon off when no forward or reverse light selected .. if using normal silicon diode remember to add 0.67 volt drop to the normal led voltage when calculating resistor values
didn't think of it before


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## johnfl68

*Top Beacon:*

You don't need to do any special circuit/wiring if you are using most ESU DCC decoders (as OP stated they were using), as you would have at least 1 AUX output available to use for the Top Beacon and you can program it with the appropriate effect to give it the look of a rotating beacon.

Also, you can often program the CV's to change the behavior of the Front and Rear Headlights, if you do not want Prototypical Lighting based on Real Railroad Operations. Again, no special wiring needed.


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## ncrc5315

One of my model railroading pet peeves, is not being able to separately control the headlights on a model locomotive, using DCC. This idea of front and rear headlights, turning on and off, based off of which way the locomotive is going, doesn't work that way in the real world. The only time the light on the rear of the locomotive is on is if running light power, or long hood forward, (or the last engine on DP power). Can you imagine running long hood forward, and "front" head light being on, shining off of the car behind you. Would get real annoying, real fast. (I know that most decoders will do it today, but I have a lot of older decoders.)


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## 2869ral

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]*
> Thanks for your total support and recommendations.._ :smilie_daumenpos: _...
> Greatly appreciated..
> You are the *"Only"* supporter I have in this *"Forum".*.
> ......


I support you 100% and also believe you were attacked, i appreciate your post, there is a lot of good info there. We are not perfect and when there are inaccuracies their should be a tactful way to address it! I have found a great forum here, with a lot of good people and info. But i have also felt attacked. I thought it was my fault and have tried to appologize several times in PMs to the individual with no acceptance. After reading through this i now realize it wasnt me who needed to appologize.This should be a fun and informative site for everyone to enjoy, so far its been informative, but not 100% fun or inviting ED RRR please dont let these individuals get to you, they are obviously very talented and full of good info, but they need to polish up on their people skills!


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## 2869ral

I have been model railroading for 40+ years now and i cant think of a time that i didnt enjoy it. I was excited to find this forum and meet new people and share my ideas and learn new things from other people and i have. But i have also seen individuals in these threads trying to bait a fight! Im ashamed to see forum administrators at the route of it. Even once seeing negativity towards anothers ideas has just killed it for me. I no longer wish to be a member here! Please scratch me off the roster!


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## DonR

ncrc5315 said:


> One of my model railroading pet peeves, is not being able to separately control the headlights on a model locomotive, using DCC. This idea of front and rear headlights, turning on and off, based off of which way the locomotive is going, doesn't work that way in the real world. The only time the light on the rear of the locomotive is on is if running light power, or long hood forward, (or the last engine on DP power). Can you imagine running long hood forward, and "front" head light being on, shining off of the car behind you. Would get real annoying, real fast. (I know that most decoders will do it today, but I have a lot of older decoders.)


Consult your decoder or loco manual. You can change
the light settings. My brother has a Bachmann S4 DCC.
He has his lights set to bright in the direction of movement
and dim at the other end. 

Don


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## Cycleops

DonR said:


> Consult your decoder or loco manual. You can change
> the light settings. My brother has a Bachmann S4 DCC.
> He has his lights set to bright in the direction of movement
> and dim at the other end.
> 
> Don


If you have a NCE controller and decoder there are additional light control options available to you.


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## ncrc5315

I was mainly talking about the older decoders that I have installed. The newer decoders, (I use TCS), allow me to have individual control of the headlight, and the rear light. This way my headlight, stays on bright, regardless of the direction of travel.


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## DocBen

I'm new to this forum and have been reading the past 7 years worth of posts on this thread. I am a bit put off by a number of posts in 2015. I hope this is not "the norm" on other threads.

Can I get some advice?

I am not a "hobbyist". I am following what has become something of a family tradition. My father got rid of his std gauge trains in the early '50's and bought a set of American Flyer trains and some Plasticville houses. He built a 4' x 8' platform as a Christmas Garden layout. I took over in my very early teens and expanded to 2 train sets and more housing in a 10' x 8' set of platforms. We used 7 watt, 120 volt bulbs (C7 Candelabra Base - Incandescent - 35 Lumens) in the structures.

Everything went into storage for about 18 years (divorce/deaths/marriage/etc). I strted again with 3 - 4' x 8' platforms for my son, eventually adding another 4' x 8' platform for about 13 Christmases. Same structure lighting. 

Time passed again (job changes/recessions/his marriage) and I got older.

I am now building a Christmas Garden for my grandson. Four - 4' x 8' platforms and some, maybe, too hopeful ideas. 

Questions:

1.) Has anyone settled on an easy/best solution for structure lighting? Back when, I did use grain-of-wheat bulbs for some special purposes. I tied bulbs and sound modules to "extra" transformers. I have seen several variations on LEDs mentioned here. Without spending a fortune, is there a reasonable solution? I saw the post about an LED strip on Amazon that had 300 LED's and runs on 12VDC. I'm wondering if 4 or 5 per structure would have the same effect as the 7 watt bulbs? Maybe I could rig some thin sheets of plastic to give color?

2.) Twenty-three years ago I built a short river and pond into the platforms I am using now. They consisted of a riverbed with rocks, etc covered with a clear plastic sheet to which I attached a bumpy/wavey plastic sheet. Looks good but I just can't let it rest. I'm thinking of a string of white (and maybe blue) LEDs that twinkle - randomly. 

Are there any friendly, helpful thoughts out there?


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## Mark VerMurlen

I don't think there's anything that can beat the reliability, flexibility, and efficiency of LEDs these days. Far better than the grains of wheat bulbs of the past. For my structures on my layout, I chose to create my own lighting. I bought white surface mount LEDs from an online electronics supplier (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/158301227/?qs=LlUlMxKIyB38bKwOGDCtzA==) for a fairly inexpensive price. I drive them with a 15V DC power supply and use either a 5K or 3K ohm resistor which you can also buy for just a few pennies. This gives either 2.4 or 4.0 mA of current. I use the brighter setting for building interiors and the dimmer setting for when they are outside the building under overhangs or eves. These are rated for a maximum of 40 mA, so they could be driven much harder and brighter if you wanted them to. I'm using these in HO scale structures but I think you could easily use them in smaller or larger structures too. To see what these look like on my layout, see my thread at http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=53721&page=14.

Mark


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## DonR

Doc-ben

Glad to have you aboard.

First, apologies for the offensive posts of the past.
The offending member has been banned. The
Forum does not tolerate angry posts such as you
have seen between members.

I use the 300 LED roll lights for all my buildings.
I first black out the walls and roof so the structure
does not glow. Use black paint, black electricians
tape and for large areas, card stock.

Don

Usually one 3 LED strip will adequately light the
whole building. Each needs 10 to 12 V DC power.

If you want to dim a strip for effect you can try a
dab of paint on the LEDs.

Don


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## DocBen

Thank you for your most prompt reply. My apologies for taking so long to reply - 2 days with the grand kids, a trip out-of-town and medical issues.

I found the 300 LED roll lights on Amazon and at that price I'm going to order a roll, at least for experimental purposes.

DocBen


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## DocBen

Thank you for your prompt reply. My apologies for taking so long to reply - 2 days with the grand kids, a trip out-of-town and medical issues.

I would really like to check out your suggestion [...white surface mount LEDs from an online electronics supplier (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...wOGDCtzA==)] but I am having trouble finding anything that matches your description. 

Your posted URL simply goes to www.mouser.com.

Do you have anything more specific: mfg, item name, etc?

Thank you again for your reply.


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## highvoltage

Hmm, his link worked for me. I'll post it again for you:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/158301227/?qs=LlUlMxKIyB38bKwOGDCtzA==


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## DocBen

Thank you. It worked this time.


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