# Train Robbery Protection



## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Yesterday I was disturbed to learn that one of the homes in our neighborhood was burglarized. Drawers pulled, house ransacked, the whole 9 yards. It's not like we live in the hood. Our subdivision is probably one of the nicest in town, and has video cameras (although very dated) at the only entrance. I'm sure these crimes are tied to the dramatic rise in opiate abuse across our community as a whole. (In our area, there are at least 14 OD calls per day).

Considering how much we all have invested in our collections, I'm considering security upgrades to the house, AND the collection. So I thought I'd throw some questions I'm pondering this morning out there.

Would a large gun safe work for engines? 

What are the best and highest resolution IP cameras?

Does my homeowners policy cover my collection, and if not, what additional coverage should I have?

As with most train collections, some items are very rare. How does that factor into decisions about collection loss prevention?

Is there something (I'm sure of it…) I'm not considering?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Having worked in the alarm industry for 2 years before my current occupation I usually advise people that the best security system is a dog. Alarm systems are great but it takes time for a response from the police and usually what happens is the perp smashes, grabs, and runs. Video cameras are great too. They usually video the crime perfectly and sometimes lead to the conviction but most times the items are never recovered and/or the video quality is not good enough to id the perp. 


Best security system is a dog with a loud bark and a sense of territory along with a 12 gauge Shotgun and some bird shot.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2017)

This works for us in protecting our life and property. Cooper, while still growing, will mature at about 115 lbs., and his sister Bailee at about 90 lbs. The breed does not take well to intruders and they have very big and sharp teeth, not to mention a bark that would scare a WWF member to death.

They like trains as well, which would not serve well for a robber. You don't want to mess with their toys.  

View attachment 294625


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## lovin it (Nov 21, 2012)

You can put a rider on your homeowners policy and it is really pretty inexpensive. You should check it out with your insurance agent.


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

Volphin said:


> Yesterday I was disturbed to learn that one of the homes in our neighborhood was burglarized. Drawers pulled, house ransacked, the whole 9 yards. It's not like we live in the hood. Our subdivision is probably one of the nicest in town, and has video cameras (although very dated) at the only entrance. I'm sure these crimes are tied to the dramatic rise in opiate abuse across our community as a whole. (In our area, there are at least 14 OD calls per day).
> 
> Considering how much we all have invested in our collections, I'm considering security upgrades to the house, AND the collection. So I thought I'd throw some questions I'm pondering this morning out there.
> 
> ...


I agree with your concern over the dramatic increase in drug related burglary. I think it can happen anywhere these days. Addicts are going to go for easily sold items and probably not have a clue about train values, so while it could happen, I think a lot of other items are going to get taken first.

What I am more concerned about is fire and smoke damage to my trains, so I have a separate floater through my insurance company, listing all of my train engines, cars, valuable accessories, etc. The policy is all-risk, with world wide coverage and no deductible, and each piece has a agreed upon value on it.

Your typical homeowners policy may not pay the proper value of a rare piece, have limits on collectibles, and will also have a deductible for all covered losses, and most are at least $ 500-1000 before a loss will be paid out.

Check with your agent about adding a floater or stand alone policy and then schedule your train pieces on them. Valuation for mine came from the Greenberg books, and I also submitted photos of them to my insurance company. 

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have an alarm, and a 11 pound dog, I don't think the dog will stop many people.  However, since we are both retired and my daughter and grandson live here as well, it's rare that there is nobody home. When you add to that the fact that my driveway is the only way to drive in and out, anyone that wanted to steal anything might think twice about getting stuck there, anyone that comes in and simply parks between the two big trees at the entrance has blocked any vehicular traffic from leaving.

You could store locomotives in a large gun safe, but it's not cheap. Personally, I store the guns in mine. 

My wife won't let me put these up.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2017)

*"I usually advise people that the best security system is a dog."*

*You sure got this right.* They are a preemptive strike against any intruder. A loud bark and snarling teeth says I want a chunk out of you. Better get lost quickly.

Most law enforcement agree that a dog is the best deterrent. So Volphin, I would be happy to share the name of our Breeder. She is not that far away from you. Nothing like a big white dog that's sole purpose is to protect you and your family.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Insurance coverage varies from state to state and from policy to policy. Some items such as collectables, jewelry or trains may require a rider to your policy and some may not. Some policies will provide for full replacement cost and others won’t. In my case, the trains don’t require a rider, but I need to keep an inventory and receipts or some other evidence of their value. Best to discuss with your insurance agent about your specific coverage.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Remington and Winchester make excellent bird shot. Anything from 2 to 00 are excellent.

If you want a separate rider to your policy, at least check with TCA. They offer several policy forms at an attractive price.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)




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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *"I usually advise people that the best security system is a dog."*
> 
> *You sure got this right.* They are a preemptive strike against any intruder. A loud bark and snarling teeth says I want a chunk out of you. Better get lost quickly.
> 
> Most law enforcement agree that a dog is the best deterrent. So Volphin, I would be happy to share the name of our Breeder. She is not that far away from you. Nothing like a big white dog that's sole purpose is to protect you and your family.


Brian, those are some handsome pups indeed! Unfortunately, my wife has a severe fear of dogs due to a childhood incident. 
So, I'll have to pass on that breeder, unfortunately. But I would love to visit your pups one day. I'm sure you could make the proper introductions.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have an alarm, and a 11 pound dog, I don't think the dog will stop many people.  However, since we are both retired and my daughter and grandson live here as well, it's rare that there is nobody home. When you add to that the fact that my driveway is the only way to drive in and out, anyone that wanted to steal anything might think twice about getting stuck there, anyone that comes in and simply parks between the two big trees at the entrance has blocked any vehicular traffic from leaving.
> 
> You could store locomotives in a large gun safe, but it's not cheap. Personally, I store the guns in mine.
> 
> My wife won't let me put these up.


That's what I store in mine as well! LOL
They sure are heavy, but I could upgrade the old ones and use the new ones for train engines and rare cars. My wife wouldn't mind that sign at all. She can outshoot me any day!


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Chiefmcfuz said:


>


What have you been doing in my safe Chief? LOL
We have a few of the same items!


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Bill Webb said:


> Remington and Winchester make excellent bird shot. Anything from 2 to 00 are excellent.
> 
> If you want a separate rider to your policy, at least check with TCA. They offer several policy forms at an attractive price.


I hadn't considered bird shot. The Mossy is set up with slugs at the moment… 

I really DO need to check in with TCA on their insurance program. It's supposedly pretty good. I'll be meeting with my homeowners agent in a few days. We had a hailstorm yesterday afternoon. It took out 15K worth of copper on our home. sigh….


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2017)

*"So, I'll have to pass on that breeder, unfortunately. But I would love to visit your pups one day. I'm sure you could make the proper introductions"*

You are the list of train people we most want to meet. You are welcome to visit anytime. And don't worry, we will make a formal introduction with you to the pups. If we say it is OK, then it is OK. Otherwise, no bets. We don't have to post any signs, the pups are the our 3-dimensional signs.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm sure there's something here to repel boarders with...


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm sure there's something here to repel boarders with...
> 
> View attachment 294665


Oh my! You are a walking gun show John! Let's see, I'll pass on the .22/.25 pocket pistols… but there seem to be some larger calibers that we should go try out together first.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's just the collectable ones, I have modern guns like Glocks, Beretta FS92, and my favorites, the 1911 in several styles. There are a few AR's, shotguns, a couple of M1 Carbines, a couple of M1 Garands, Ruger 10-22's, etc. I also even have an SKS and my Tikka .308 for reaching out and touching someone.


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## PDDMI (Oct 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That's just the collectable ones, I have modern guns like Glocks, Beretta FS92, and my favorites, the 1911 in several styles. There are a few AR's, shotguns, a couple of M1 Carbines, a couple of M1 Garands, Ruger 10-22's, etc. I also even have an SKS and my Tikka .308 for reaching out and touching someone.


John,
Looks like one of those may have belonged to "Bond...James Bond"? I have one from 1967...and a favorite, heavy by today's standards, but quite accurate!


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Very impressive collections! But how do these work if the burglary happens when no one is home? The guns would be stolen too. Nefarious people will usually look for the low hanging fruit, not a place where someone is waiting at the door with weapons.

And God bless the dogs if the burglars have weapons.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

You could check this company out. I've heard good things about them.

Collectibles Insurance Services


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Another good security solution is to always ALWAYS have lights on outside of your property at night. I have timers on my outdoor light switches that turn them on and off every day. I know the house is lit up when we are not at home.

Let the burglars go after the dark houses.


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## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

Drug addicted folks need cash, quick, trains should be the least of your concerns. I have never been in a pawn shop full of prized toy trains. Tools, guns, electrics, jewelry, sure but trains...nope. 

Buy a rider or stand alone policy that will cover fire, water, and losses, and be sure to keep receipts and photos, just in case you need to show value. 

Depending upon the value of your wife's jewelry you might want to add that too. In our case 20 years of holidays and celebrations, with a major client having been a diamond broker, blew the 20k in coverage in our owners policy away. The rider wasn't that much, but if someone takes off with it at least we'll have more than receipts and pictures.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Most insurance companies that offer homeowners will also insure your trains with an extra cost rider. Some require documentation before hand, others just ask for estimated worth and then require evidence if there is a loss. Either way you would have to produce pictures and likey an expert appraisal.

Pete


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Traindiesel said:


> View attachment 294729
> 
> 
> View attachment 294737
> ...


Again, I only worked in the alarm industry for 2 years before my 21 year in law enforcement. My firearms are locked up in a very nice safe. Except for my EDC which is always with me or within reach. The burglar doesn't usually carry weapons because they are usually carrying tools. They shy away from long jobs and jobs that have guard dogs because of the risk. 

The dogs are safe. Trust me.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Dogs are good, a camra system is good to deter and catch criminals later. The biggest thing with the deter aspect is to post signage. Now a days, belive it or not , those doorbell cameras are catching criminals. Most criminals ring the bell to see if anyone is home first. And call the insurance company for a quote, shouldn't cost too much. My cameras came from Costco, really good pictures and wireless, so they are plug and play.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Similar to my system. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00N...pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=Uniden


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My safe and the guns inside weigh around 1200-1300 pounds, and it's on the second floor. With the alarm blaring and the cops coming, I doubt anyone is going to hang around to try to break into it.

FWIW, every time there has been an alarm triggered, the State Police are here in less than 10 minutes.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

Take pictures. You will never know what all is missing unless you can take an accurate inventory.

I've taken a picture of every one of my valuables, including the wife's jewelry and all my stuff. I record the serial numbers right on the picture. I also have current pictures of every room and pictures of all the drawers in my roll away tool boxes and every major piece of shop equipment. I have stapled the receipts (if I have them) onto the pictures.

DON'T store it all on the computer, for obvious reasons. My info is in the safe deposit box down at the bank.

The best defense against burglary is insurance. The best defense against getting screwed by the insurance company is good documentation.

BTW, John. That safe and alarm are good but professionals will have that alarm off and peel that safe in minutes.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

When I go vacation I usually lock my collection up at work. Very secure place there!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Waddy said:


> BTW, John. That safe and alarm are good but professionals will have that alarm off and peel that safe in minutes.


Those professionals also have to brave the hail of bullets, it's very rare that someone isn't here, day or night.  I think those professionals are out for easier pickings, there are plenty around here.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

I'll second the pictures. Store them on an 'off line device' such as the cloud and a USB stick. I have multiple pictures of each item I own. This includes tools, trains, anything of value to you.

A few years ago two thieves broke into my shop. For legality reasons, my attorney advised not disclosing the details. They had a _real_ bad night. Enough said...


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Somebody is usually home all the time, but I do have some security. They would have to make a lot of noise to get to my trains and radios. Then I would make a couple of loud noises too.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

86TA355SR said:


> I'll second the pictures. Store them on an 'off line device' such as the cloud and a USB stick. I have multiple pictures of each item I own. This includes tools, trains, anything of value to you.
> 
> A few years ago two thieves broke into my shop. For legality reasons, my attorney advised not disclosing the details. They had a _real_ bad night. Enough said...


When I lived in Texas back in the early 80's, a friend of mine once told me he came home one night and found blood all over his bedroom window sill and floor and on his German Shepard's mouth.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

I know this sounds kind of preachy, but I wouldn't advertise that there is an armed gun owner at the ready. So no "Never mind the dog, beware of owner" signs.

And probably not a "beware of dog" sign either. 

I had a prominent lawyer address my construction classes each year on legal issues (I taught Construction Technology at a local college). 

He advised to post a "Dog on Premises" sign instead. Posting "beware of dog" is an assertion that the dog is vicious, or at least aggressive. Doesn't play well in court.

For the property he advised a "No Trespassing" sign or "Private Property" sign as "Beware of Owner" featuring a gun is also an assertion of an aggressive attitude. Plus it puts the intruder on alert.

Privately I asked him if using reloads for home defense was OK, and he said no way. The other side will say,"so regular ammunition wasn't powerful enough for you, you had to make even more deadly rounds".

He also told me that the first thing a prosecutor will ask is how much experience have you had in the proper use of firearms. So make sure you make it out to the range once in a while to keep proficient.

Defending your own home from an intruder seems simple and straight forward, and it sometimes ends up that way, but it can get complicated quickly, especially if it goes to court. Even when you're completely in the right you will probably face a civil suit.

Don't give the other side an advantage.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Chiefmcfuz said:


> Again, I only worked in the alarm industry for 2 years before my 21 year in law enforcement. My firearms are locked up in a very nice safe. Except for my EDC which is always with me or within reach. The burglar doesn't usually carry weapons because they are usually carrying tools. They shy away from long jobs and jobs that have guard dogs because of the risk.
> 
> The dogs are safe. Trust me.


Maybe, in Mayberry.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Waddy said:


> I know this sounds kind of preachy, but I wouldn't advertise that there is an armed gun owner at the ready. So no "Never mind the dog, beware of owner" signs.
> 
> And probably not a "beware of dog" sign either.
> 
> ...


That's why I miss living in Texas. You have the legal right to shoot a intruder as long as he is inside your house. I had two cops tell me if I shoot someone on my porch drag them in the house. 

That was Texas and this is the Mid-West. Laws are made to benefit criminals and victims get the shaft. The proper use of firearms is you point and squeezed the trigger. So yes I have a aggressive attitude and I won't hesitate. I may give them a chance to run. I think it's a fair warning as well as "Beware of Dog". It's them or me if that's wrong then they can lock me up. I'd like to see how a prosecutor deals with a intruder. 

Waddy I don't mean to sound gruff and definitely not at you, but that's the way I see it.


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## PDDMI (Oct 25, 2015)

DennyM said:


> Somebody is usually home all the time, but I do have some security. They would have to make a lot of noise to get to my trains and radios. Then I would make a couple of loud noises too.
> 
> 
> View attachment 294889
> ...


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

Denny, I understand fully, and I feel the same way.

But the lawyer would tell you that how something actually happens and how it can be made to appear in court are often two different things.

And while a criminal trial requires jury agreement, a civil suit only needs a majority. And even if you win it can cost you everything.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Waddy said:


> Denny, I understand fully, and I feel the same way.
> 
> But the lawyer would tell you that how something actually happens and how it can be made to appear in court are often two different things.
> 
> And while a criminal trial requires jury agreement, a civil suit only needs a majority. And even if you win it can cost you everything.


So they break the law and you get sued for protecting what's yours. You might as well hand them the gun and say kill me. My brother is a retired lawyer and we don't see eye to eye at all.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

The "castle doctrine" gives you a lot of protection from criminal prosecution, most of the time.

But it does nothing to protect you from a civil suit. Even if you win, it could cost you a fortune to defend yourself. Winning could bankrupt you.

I know it isn't fair, that's why I tossed out some words of caution. I sure don't want to upset you. I know thinking about this causes a lot of frustration; it does me, too.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Interesting thread, especially about the dogs and guns. 

Being Idaho-born and raised, I've been shooting since age 7, so learned very early: be careful what you shoot at.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Waddy said:


> The "castle doctrine" gives you a lot of protection from criminal prosecution, most of the time.
> 
> But it does nothing to protect you from a civil suit. Even if you win, it could cost you a fortune to defend yourself. Winning could bankrupt you.
> 
> I know it isn't fair, that's why I tossed out some words of caution. I sure don't want to upset you. I know thinking about this causes a lot of frustration; it does me, too.


This will vary by state. In TN, and most southern states you are protected from criminal AND civil prosecution. But this thread isn't about castle doctrine, or 2A. It's about protection from theft. Most theft happens when no one is home.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

So does anyone have any experience with wireless cameras?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Wireless cameras are great but make sure the picture quality is good before you buy. I have them inside and outside of my house.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Traindiesel said:


> Maybe, in Mayberry.


Ummmm yeah, I live in Mayberry.


I thought it was the New York Metro arena. Oh well, guess I need to go find Andy and Barney. . . . . . . .


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've found that cameras have to be fairly upscale to have sufficient resolution to actually be useful in solving a crime.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Waddy said:


> The "castle doctrine" gives you a lot of protection from criminal prosecution, most of the time.
> 
> But it does nothing to protect you from a civil suit. Even if you win, it could cost you a fortune to defend yourself. Winning could bankrupt you.
> 
> I know it isn't fair, that's why I tossed out some words of caution. I sure don't want to upset you. I know thinking about this causes a lot of frustration; it does me, too.


Believe me there are plenty other things that chaps my hide. :sly: This is not on the top of the list.


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## FVTrains (Jun 19, 2015)

Try looking at Amcrest for wireless cameras. HD picture, 359 deg swivel, limited panning up but good panning down. Roughly $100 apiece. You can use them anywhere there is a power outlet. Easy set-up to wifi. Apps for android an Mac to view on phone, tablet. Buy an SD card (size is your preference) and it will record. Configurable area triggers for recording of movement. Decent low-light/night vision capabilities. 

I have four; bought all on Amazon, two on "Prime Day" 20% (or so) off. I have indoor version; they make outdoor/mountable versions as well.

Would definitely recommend these (better than Panasonics I had).

Bruce


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Waddy said:


> ... Even if you win, it could cost you a fortune to defend yourself.....


I'm NOT shooting to wound...


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

86TA355SR said:


> I'm NOT shooting to wound...


Every perp has a poor, distraught momma.... and a lawyer.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Waddy said:


> Every perp has a poor, distraught momma.... and a lawyer.


I agree, but what about distraught mothers of victims or the mothers themselves? 

A friend who once lived in New Mexico told me there is a shoot to kill law there. He explained that if you have to shoot an intruder you have to kill him. 

I understand distraught mothers. John Wayne Gacy had one. So did Al Capone, the gangbangers and people they killed. Lawyers found a way to make more money. Lawsuits pay big. The lawyer that handled my motorcycle accident showed up to my house in a Porsche.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Just wondering, those of you who have guns that are not in law enforcement, how many burglars have you shot?

If none, how do you really know how you'd react?


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

Traindiesel said:


> Just wondering, those of you who have guns that are not in law enforcement, how many burglars have you shot?
> 
> If none, how do you really know how you'd react?


That's a valid point Brian. If a person has never been in combat they have absolutely no idea how they would react. Further, they haven't seen what various caliber projectiles will do to a human body. It is sickening and stays with you for a long, long time.

I can tell you this though. Active training is paramount. Even the way you breathe can effect your ability to perform. Taking a life is not instinctual to the human condition. But with your loved ones or your buddies on the line, you do what it takes to survive.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Volphin said:


> That's a valid point Brian. If a person has never been in combat they have absolutely no idea how they would react. Further, they haven't seen what various caliber projectiles will do to a human body. It is sickening and stays with you for a long, long time.
> 
> I can tell you this though. Active training is paramount. Even the way you breathe can effect your ability to perform. Taking a life is not instinctual to the human condition. But with your loved ones or your buddies on the line, you do what it takes to survive.


A few of my friends have concealed weapons permits. I don't think the course that is given is enough and going to a shooting range once or twice a week doesn't do it. 

Law enforcement trains regularly. I told one fellow if you have never had shoot anyone do you think you can take a life? Once you squeeze the trigger there's no turning back. 

There are some cold blooded people out there that would feel no remorse for killing someone and I'm not talking about criminals. 

Like you said no one knows how they would truly react, but protecting a loved one anything can happen.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2017)

*"Just wondering, those of you who have guns that are not in law enforcement, how many burglars have you shot?

If none, how do you really know how you'd react?"*

Excellent point Brian, but I would expect nothing less from a terrific passenger train collector. Your comment reminds me of the time when I was staying at a hotel in a major US city. It was cheaper for me to put my staff up in a suite, and early one morning I arose to an intruder in my room within the suite. The intruder was after me wallet and watch on the bureau. I quietly exited the bed when the intruder was not looking and tackled him. He had a big ole knife and that turned out to be a big mistake for him. My employees then came running our of their rooms to find the intruder begging for mercy with me on top of him yelling at him not to move again. Hotel security personnel, EMT's (not for me), and police took him away for a nice ride and an all expense stay in another type of suite. The intruder was part of a ring that also got busted. The hotel comped the suite that time. 

It makes your point Brian, that you don't know how you would react until ACTUALLY confronted by a robber with a weapon. The intruder picked the wrong suite that day.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Brian, your post reminded me a news story I read about a guy that confronted a couple of intruders. He was a ex-Marine and in his late 60's, He made short work of both of them. The pictures of their faces were almost unrecognizable because he beat them so badly.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2017)

There are many stories out there when the good guys win, but there are way too many that go the other way. 

I traveled a lot for business, and I remember when staying in a southwestern state, a policeman was coming home and pulled into his driveway. He noticed something move in his house and told his family to stay in their vehicle. A short time later, 4 robbers exited the home in such a way that they were never to be a burden to their communities again. The liberals wanted to string the police officer up feeling sorry for the poor robbers, but the DA did not agree. End of their story.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Traindiesel said:


> Just wondering, those of you who have guns that are not in law enforcement, how many burglars have you shot?
> 
> If none, how do you really know how you'd react?


It's a valid point Brian. However, if you don't have a gun, the answer to that question is chiseled in stone. 

Anyone that carries a concealed gun or has defensive guns in their home should think long and hard about their answer. I've taken a few defensive gun courses, and have discussed this ad infinitum with various friends and colleagues. My general feeling is that I'll do everything possible not to ever get into the situation that the use of deadly force is necessary. In the aftermath of a defensive shooting, you can be sure it'll be a rough ride no matter how justified you are. OTOH, if my life or the life of other family, is truly in imminent danger, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to defend myself or my family.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's a valid point Brian. However, if you don't have a gun, the answer to that question is chiseled in stone.
> 
> Anyone that carries a concealed gun or has defensive guns in their home should think long and hard about their answer. I've taken a few defensive gun courses, and have discussed this ad infinitum with various friends and colleagues. My general feeling is that I'll do everything possible not to ever get into the situation that the use of deadly force is necessary. In the aftermath of a defensive shooting, you can be sure it'll be a rough ride no matter how justified you are. OTOH, if my life or the life of other family, is truly in imminent danger, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to defend myself or my family.


Well said. No one can ever be sure how they would react. Even the vast majority of police officers never get tested; they finish their careers without ever having to use their weapon. But most people have a strong sense of self preservation and will defend themselves, and their loved ones, when left with no other choice. There is a good reason criminals fear an armed homeowner more than the police.

But if you doubt your willingness to take another's life even in self-defense, or you're not comfortable having guns around, then you probably shouldn't own one.


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