# The Seventies Salvation & Oil Valley Railway - ongoing concept to construction



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Greetings.
So to start with, with this layout build I’m doing things differently than I have previously. Most notably, no exacting plan to follow. Rather I’m doing it loosely allowing for ample elbow room and flexibility. That said, I do have a rough plan in my head that I am following.
Also, being limited to a tablet, the availability for track planning software is less than scarce.
So, I’m going to do things Stephen King style…. With words.

The layout itself is an island design with perimeter aisles. The shape viewed from topdown is like |-C. For sake of clarity I’ll call the | the spine, the - the hip, and the C the C.
It is triple deck, heights being 56”, 42”, and 30”.

The Spine or | portion is 6 feet wide by 18 feet long with curved ends and a view block roughly down the center (slightly off center).
The Hip is 3 foot by 4 foot.
The C is more complex. The top and bottom areas are each 5 foot by 8 foot, and portion between them and the Hip is about 3 foot by 12 foot.

Starting at the bottom of the C, which is the only portion of the layout to be top deck only, is the site of a Pennzoil plant & storage yard. A RIP track and programming track will also be here, as my work bench will tuck under the 5x8 refinery. I can also easily slide a furnace or water heater under this area.
Hopping across the aisle to the top of the C is the site of the Atlantic Richfield Eclipse Works as it “may have” looked in 1978. This refinery is also 5 ft by 8 foot, and caps a double track open-sided oval helix.

The Hip on the top deck is the Allegheny River, with a modified version of the Wye bridge located in Oil City, PA. It will have a 3rd track. Double mainline heading to the top of the Spine, and a single track heading toward the bottom of the Spine. This track serves a few purposes; an industrial lead to Pennzoil and Glassylvania (located near the bottom of the spine), extra trackage for an inbound escape track, and lastly provides a non-prototypical continuous loop for breaking in new locos, etc.
The two tracks heading to the top of the Spine are the double track mainline.

The Spine portion, top deck will have Glassylvania and Electralloy on the Hip side, along with hill-side homes. Following the mainlines around the top brings you to the pinwheeled yard ladder, and extensive yard at Oil City. This, prototypically, is the stub ends of what is a horseshoe of mainline (ignoring the continuous option).

The second deck is really just an extension off of the helix purely for scenic additions. No switching occurs on this deck. The Hip portion of the layout along with the adjacent Spine area will be the town of Franklin, PA, probably with structure view block as 4 mainlines is a bit much. Around the other side of the Spine, below the Oil City yard is a 10 foot long uninterrupted view of the double mainlines snaking along the Allegheny River.

The Hip portion bottom deck will have the Oil Valley Ry car shops. Really just a cosmetic display of mothballed power, and supply loads that never actually get moved (flat cars with loco cabs, etc).
The Spine lower deck is one of the coolest staging yards no one has yet seen. This yard represents Oil City Railway's “Gateway” Yard at New Castle Junction. Essentially it is a “race track” of 6 full loops, 6 foot by 18 foot, plus the mainline which is a single main at this point.
There is no identifiable “ladder” to Gateway Yard. Instead it is integrated as a series of off-set cross overs about train length distance from one another. At maximum capacity I can park 12 trains measuring 12+ feet long. Arrivals & departures snake their way in and out via the cross overs.
The city of New Castle Jct will be represented as a backdrop building flats & low-to-mid relief (aka frontless) structures.

Railroads that have access via Gateway Yard and trackage rights to Oil City are: NW, Chessie, Conrail, P&LE. Typically 2 OVR trains will be staged here, plus the OVR MOW train, which is my track cleaning train. I wanted to do a Loram train for track cleaning but it was too ambitious of a scratch-build project so settled for MOW equipment.

OPS:
The mainline hazmat drags can be sort of automated. It will be a long trek at low speed.

Obviously yard ops (including supply cars) and diesel service hostling are available.

3 local switching runs, a mixed run for Glassylvania (covered hoppers & boxcars) and Electralloy (various boxcars, flats, gondolas). The other two locals are to the Pennzoil and Eclipse refineries.

Lastly both of the refineries each has a dedicated plant switcher, and spotting deliveries made by the locals is a complex task. Each refinery is a 5x8 foot industrial layout when you boil it down. Add to the fact these refineries are not 2 storage tanks and a lone fractioning tower. Each one will have 3 or 4 fractioning towers, power houses/furnaces, coker units, tar units, propane, pump houses, 2-3 gas/diesel loading tracks, access roads, piping, 4-8 tanks represented in the tank farm, the storage yard, etc. At 56 inches high, it’s tricky to see your clearances, derailments are a horror story, and the tops of smoke stacks are realistically above eye level. So those two jobs are the most intense/advanced and require some operating experience. And to top it all off, I model an overcast wet November day so the lighting is subdued, not bright and sunny. More like a florescent at 30% brightness intensity of illumination.

Photos of construction to come beginning Winter 2021/22.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

These photos are purely for my own documentation as I have a habit of deleting old/unnecessary photos. 
For those planning to follow along:
All remaining paneling is slated to be removed and walls painted hazy backdrop gray. 
I’ve added captions associated with my description above.

The Spine section (yard on the wall side, divider backdrop extending to the drop ceiling). 18ftx6ft rounded ends.
















The Hip section with the Allegheny River & Wye bridges. 3ftx4ft. Aisles leading toward on both sides.









Lower half of the C. Roughly 5ftx8ft over that dry bar, and connecting to the Hip. This will be the Pennzoil refinery. Work bench will be turned 90 degrees and roll under & out of sight for a clean presentation.
















Upper C portion, precisely where that sectional sofa presently sits. 5ftx8ft with visible helix below. The helix inspired by Roy Smith & his N Scale UP Evanston Division western helix which can be seen on youtube. This will be the extensive Atlantic Richfield Eclipse Works refinery on the top deck. Also, the very first thing you see entering the room. Second photo is from the doorway. The I beam supports at both refineries will be utilized as exhaust stacks for plant power houses, which is the reason for some backdrop paint at the top
















This photo is simply to illustrate the 3 deck heights. 56” for the top deck, 42” mid deck, and 30” for the visible staging deck. The cast drains will be replaced with PVC.









This constitutes the concept. 
Rough construction set to begin early December 2021.

Stay tuned for some special construction tips, such as “auto-leveling your layout for dummies such as me.”


----------



## Tom A H (Jul 25, 2021)

Wow - that space looks like it has a ton of potential! I can wait to see it come together! I myself am limited to a 4x8 layout ( until the kids get a little older, lol), but I still consider myself fortunate.’

i love th idea of modelling n industry. I considered a refinery, but too complicated for my skill set at this point. I am slowly putting together a stripped down steel mill. I spent quite a bit of time researching them to understand the various building functions and how the materials moved from place to place.

right now I’m looking for some good bottle style hoppers in N scale, but no dice so far. I do have some old diesel switchers that will be perfect for the traction, and a nice selection of short ore cars. The time I’m modelling is 60s/70s.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

It’s a good size room, 25x25 feet, but with some defining obstacles/doorways. I went through several “around the wall” plans before flipping it all and putting the layout where the original aisles were. And originally it was going to be only single level. 
A fun fact, which varies by personal height; sitting on a bar stool will put the top deck at almost exactly eye level. Standing puts it at chest level. On a folding chair, the middle deck is exactly eye level. The middle deck is purely scenic run through territory, there isn’t a single turnout there. Construction wise the middle deck is just a zero grade extension of the helix tracks. The option to sit back & just railfan is the main reason I will have an optional continuous loop connection that doubles as an industrial lead track during normal ops.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Here are some location photos that I’ll be using for layout reference, particularly landforms, river color matching, etc. 
Bear in mind, while my layout is oriented the same magnetically (north on the layout being north on the prototype), I do have to relocate some things in order to fit them in. Namely the Wye bridge will be on a position in the layout that it would appear to cross the Oil Creek, not the Allegheny River. I think everyone would sooner relocate it than omit it.

Wye bridge - the “hip” of my layout with aisles approaching the bridge “in the river” on both sides.








Some interesting factoids. Note the foundation remains of a PRR roundhouse just to the right (north) of the west bridge approach. The boiler room/machine shop of that roundhouse had a floor made of WOODEN bricks. 
Also that rectangular structure right beside the bridge approach was originally a car shed to store street cars in the early 1900s when times were booming. Presently it is commercial space I believe.
There is, or rather was, a pair of turnouts on that truss bridge.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

The reason I no longer use precise drawn plans…

There’s always a wrench in there someplace.

Instead, over time, I’ve learned to play loose & fast with track planning, stay flexible and adaptive because between my brain farts, proverbial blonde moments, and Murphy stopping by to see how things are going, there’s always something. So I keep only a generalized plan in my mind with lots of room for adjustment.

And this time there is as well. So far only one, a fundamental (SEE beginners) error in my staging yard. Alas, a solution immediately presented itself. Not the end result that I’d prefer, but better than a 33% reduction in staging yard trackage.
And on this layout I expected more unforeseen issues; this is the first multi-level layout that I’ve built and one must factor in otherwise unimportant things, like leg location, L girder drop (or negative plane height?)

I’m waiting on photo updates until I get a few more modules completed.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

With the other discussion going on where I mentioned I only keep a loose mental plan… the problem is conveying that vision to others.
I have no real need for fancy design software, and I’m limited to a tablet. So I used a free hand drawing app.
Please forgive the excessively crude drawing. I assure you, I am not 4 years old. Lol

I’ll add a couple of remarks as appropriate but most of this is pretty straight forward. Images represent top deck only. Middle deck is all scenic run. Lower deck is scenic visible staging. Also this is track only and benchwork edges are not shown.


The “Spine” & “Hip” mentioned in my earlier posts. 6ft wide by 18ft long consisting of six 3x6 modules bolted together. The blue line indicates a to-ceiling backdrop. The green dots indicate where the prototypical operations inbound & outbound mainlines “end.” The red line indicates the optional continuous loop, reversing wye incorporating the bridge, and industry lead to Glassylvania. Electralloy is the black spurs.









The other side of the wye bridge. The purple dot indicates the entry to ARCO Eclipse Works. The Red dot indicates entry to Pennzoil. My workbench will be located near the RIP track, which is also an isolated programming track. Any rolling stock in need of repair get spotted there. This area is roughly 3ft x 10ft.









Pennzoil, a 5ft by 8ft “table.” Accessible from three sides. This section of layout is top deck only, allowing my work bench to roll under it out of sight if/when desired.









ARCO Eclipse Works. Also a 5ft x 8ft “table.” This refinery is the top of the oval open-sided helix. What appears to be a double track mainline is really just one dog bone, eastbound & west bound tracks.









Additional point to be made; some elements, like escape cross overs in the storage yards. The storage yards being indicated as 2 or 3 tracks is not necessarily accurate; it’s just a representation of storage track location.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Heck with it, middle & bottom decks are not difficult to sketch, so here they are also.

Middle deck as stated is purely scenic rail fanning. Technically it’s just an extended loop of the helix at 0% grade. Tracks pass through the town of Franklin, before running along side (chasing I call it) the Allegheny River, a 10ft long uninterrupted scene. Here both eastbound & westbound tracks are side by side.









The bottom deck the east & west bound mainlines show they’re just 1 track. Inside of that loop are concentric full loops with a series of cross overs which will be strategically placed to allow trains to navigate inward/outward. Minimum radius here will be 18”, with the mainline radius bumping up to 28” from 24” everywhere else. This design completely eliminates the need for a ladder in any traditional sense. 
Depending on the location & number of cross overs, some shifting of stored trains between or during ops sessions might be required? I’m okay with that though. In official ops sessions, no train should appear more than once, not all staged trains need to appear every time. Essentially it’s a parking lot for 9ft to 11ft long trains. I figure 8 or so comfortably on six loops. 
The middle will be building flats representing New Castle Junction.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I’m still in the room prep phase; wanted to share this great info.

I’m planning on having both aisle way lights, and layout overhead lights on separate switches. The over layout ones I was going to use 2x2 LED panels @ $70 each. For the aisle, recessed can retro fit lights. 
I stumbled upon these, which I decided I’m going to use everywhere.

1200 lumens! (a single 850 can light up half of my 14x25 living room)
5 selectable color temps, plus a 6th making the first 5 selectable via wall switch.
Hardwired, so no existing recessed can is actually needed.
Dimmable.
And they even come with Wago type connectors.
Made by Feit, a reputable company (I use that brand exclusively)
For $15 each @Menards.


----------



## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

OilValleyRy said:


> I’m still in the room prep phase; wanted to share this great info.
> 
> I’m planning on having both aisle way lights, and layout overhead lights on separate switches. The over layout ones I was going to use 2x2 LED panels @ $70 each. For the aisle, recessed can retro fit lights.
> I stumbled upon these, which I decided I’m going to use everywhere.
> ...


Where was this post when I was deciding on my layout lighting!!! Would have been a great option especially with the ability to alter the Kelvin rating to get whatever blend K rating I'd want...


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Well they’d probably not work for you. They have wings to grab ceiling tile. 
And it was a recent discovery. Most have only 3 settings but a few now have 5.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

This is just one aisle fixture (2700k) at full brightness. (Ok, plus the night light lantern)









And at approximately 20% brightness. 









Aisle lights are needed because I have to circumnavigate 90% of the layout to reach the laundry room.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

As most probably do not recall; 
My original lighting plan was using recessed lighting retro fit kits for aisle lights… But for over the layout to use 2x2 Troffer LED panels. But Troffers are about $80 each, the retro fit kits $15, so I’m using them everywhere. Troffers would eliminate bright spots and shadows, but at the price difference, I’ll cope.

So I’ve been toying around with the color settings (theres 5 choices) and dimmer settings. I think I’ve zeroed in on my “Overcast November” aesthetic. Mind you it’s just one fixture being tested before doing the rest, so the background is darker than what it will really be.


















It’s pretty moody. Especially when compared to full brightness “Summer time” lighting levels as exampled below. 

















However full brightness is a must for laying track, scenery, etc. The dimmers I use have a memory setting, so double-tap on it goes to full brightness, single-tap on it goes to my own dialed in brightness setting. I’ll probably do “weathering photos” in full brightness too, the dim is just for ops. Kinda makes me regret not making the sill lights operating on my locos. Oh well.


----------



## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Right now, I'm in the "give me more light" part of my build. Maybe once all my scenery is done (is it ever?) I will consider mood lighting. I'm still in the "what the hell is wrong now?" part of things, lol! And I need a lot of light for these tired old eyes.


----------



## Raege (Jan 7, 2022)

It’s a very hazy shade of winter. To dark for my tastes i miss the details that aren’t in my face. I fall between your Nov and summer schemes where I wouldn’t be looking for th3 detail but just noticing them. 
As for the lighting seems it going to get the job done no matter what mood you go after. Should make for some great photo shoots once all scenery is in place for sure.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I’m wondering if anyone might know the linear expansion coefficient of nickel silver rail?
Temperatures don’t swing too much in my basement, but seeing as I’m planning on modeling real expansion joints, I asked myself why not also make them actually operating expansion joints instead of gapped butt joints? The coefficient only matters in terms of quantity needed.
Not the prototype coefficient, but HO Code 83 or 70.

SOLVED: 9x10 to the -6 power for copper-based nickel alloy rail. So about 0.1 inches of thermal expansion per 100ft.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

*I’ve made a significant design decision.*

Now as a few of you are probably thinking I haven’t made much progress on my benchwork… That’s only partially true.
I’ve got one modular section constructed as a template for other. I’ve also been using it for familiarity. Like test driving a car before committing. 
And I’ve decided that my deck heights need some adjusting. Currently they are 56”, 41”, and 30”. 
BUT once factoring in fascia drop etc, the middle deck meant for scenic runs has a vertical viewing space of only 7.5 inches. 
I’ve been telling myself I could probably make that work. 
But why? This is why I built just 1 section as a test rig, to live with for a while & locate unforeseen oopses. 
So only thing to sensibly do.


----------



## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

Me waiting for pictures...


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Hm! I thought that I had uploaded a photo but I see now I did not. I’ll have to do that.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Modular benchwork section one, the test rig.









Pardon the mess. All that will be stored under the layout, and it there to checking clearance below the bottom deck.
I also tried to maintain “common parts bins” in terms of lumber dimensions, and minimize cuts during initial planning.
For example, this & most benchwork sections are 3ft x 6ft. The legs in most places are 48 inches tall. All L girders are 6ft long.
The legs I spaced all the way to the ends for two reasons. 1, most sections can be bolted together. And 2, the end sections are 3ft x 6ft half circles or half wagon wheels, and will probably get only one leg and french cleats added to the legs of the adjacent section.









My legs are made from 1x4s screwed & glued in a 90 degree. These are incredibly stable due to the foot print.
You may wonder why the lower L girders were mounted on the outside of the legs rather than the inside? Several clever reasons.








For one, it sets the legs back about 2 inches behind the fascia, for toe clearance. Reason #2 is my bus lines will be strapped to the L girders, probably with coaxial straps, and terminal strips at one end. So all of the crimping, soldering, connecting etc takes place immediately behind the fascia, not 24 inches back etc.









Reason #3 is subtle. The upper deck 1x4 supports are 1 inch shorter than the rear L girders. My backdrop (view block) will be 2 inch foam, and another benchwork section will butt up to the rear of this. As a result, a 4x8 of 2 inch foam will sit on those risers and be stabilized by the 1x4s. It’ll be free floating, but have to be installed at the same time the rear benchwork in put in place.









Clips for rope lighting. But I’ve since decided a better location would be attached to the cross supports about 3 or 4 inches back.









I’m 5’10 and I took this by holding the camera inline with my line of sight. That’s about 10 inches back from the aisle edge. Which means all my rear scenery must be removable, which I prefer.

While I didn’t illustrate it, the middle deck (with the loco line up) is only 7.5 inches below the bottom fascia. So that’s what I need to drop. The bottom L girders can be dropped accordingly and still have clearance for my larger storage items.
Two reasons the top deck fascia is so tall given the multi-deck design. It made more sense to use 4ft legs instead of cutting 6ft down to 53 inches or something. And, all the major switching occurs on the top deck which means switch machines, turnout controls, fascia track schematics, and drawers for removable car load storage.

I like full size templates to work from, rather than a 2D drawing. Plans are fine, albeit theoretical. I opt for practical first hand interaction whenever possible. Hence 1 section of benchwork to test, not 12.
Edit: sentence/spelling corrections. For whatever reason when I move the cursor on iOS things disappear.


----------



## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

Awesome thanks for sharing the pictures!!!



OilValleyRy said:


> Pardon the mess. All that will be stored under the layout...


That ain't no mess... This is a mess!!!


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I’ve been chasing them dragons. Or trying to push back the fog of war where the main yard will be.

A couple of rough ideas so far. A few notes up front though:
1, the benchwork area is 18ft from end aisle to end aisle, two 6ft center sections (four really but two on the yard side of the backdrop) two end sections.
2, the “double mainline” is really one mainline paralleling itself. Where the inbound and outbound come together on the right will be insulated for an auto-reverser. Despite that, polarity still poses a problem here & there.









Plan 1 I like only a little. I like the ladder run around with a switch back move into the locomotive service area. But other than that it’s pretty drab. Also, that cross over between opposite polarity mainlines may pose a problem for a switcher breaking down inbound cars.









Plan 2 is deceptive. It looks simpler at first. Until you notice the ladder is both pinwheeled and becomes a reversed pinwheel AND compound in the storage tracks. It starts curving the same as the mainlines, but ends up curving the opposite direction. It’s essentially a 5-6 foot long broad S curve, full out turnouts. Which is all 52 types of certifiable crazy. I’m not entirely sure it would work, just 99…well, 96%…. Ok honestly maybe about 75% sure. I’d have to tinker with actual turnouts in hand. 40’ cars aren’t the issue, it’s the 86’ hi-cubes that have me raising a Spock brow. The service area is a bit more robust and could still be extended, and the terminal track is much much longer, parallel to the outbound mainline. But, duly note I removed the crossover from inbound to outbound mainlines, and did not add any resolution to its absence. Additionally there is more space on the left for city blocks.
Maybe that crossover being half way on the auto-reverser would be ok. The other points of insulation will be near where the mainlines converge into one, and up near where the tracks all appear to wye together (some do some don’t).

Still thinking of more options.


----------



## Raege (Jan 7, 2022)

Interesting seeing the thought process playing out. I do like #1 for its left side and #2s ladder layout. Would the 86’ handle #2s bottom 2 ladders better going out mains than rest? Interested to follow and see if you merge portions of each together or put an entirely different map out. will be a good learning experience for myself


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Raege said:


> Interesting seeing the thought process playing out. I do like #1 for its left side and #2s ladder layout. Would the 86’ handle #2s bottom 2 ladders better going out mains than rest? Interested to follow and see if you merge portions of each together or put an entirely different map out. will be a good learning experience for myself


In plan #2, the ladder would be made by connecting the next sequential turnout to the preceding turnouts diverging track over & over again. I think the easiest to navigate track for 86’ cars would be either the second from rear most track, or second back track. But because the ladder is pinwheels, and the storage tracks compound, probably any tangent track would work, because the compound tracks would create a shorter S curve navigable by 40’ cars. Which in theory is okay, it splits up storage, short cars then long cars then short cars then long as you count the tracks back from the aisle. 
Right now I’m just aiming for general concept. Plan A, Plan B(ackup), and always good to have a C(ontingency) in case all else fails. 
The short storage track is the caboose track, same general location in both plans for good viewing.


----------



## LongvaIIon (6 mo ago)

Where is the Dragons Zone ? You mentioned it in one of your first posts.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

LongvaIIon said:


> Where is the Dragons Zone ? You mentioned it in one of your first posts.


The Oil City yard. I didn’t have much of any plan when sketching the mainline out, so just write in “here be dragons” because I was trying to avoid the area planning-wise lol But I’m delving in.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Minor update. 
Some realize that I build my benchwork in modular fashion but not scenery; just incase it has to be relocated 15 years etc from now. 
So far only one module was completed. That’s my method; build a prototype, live with it a while & decide if I like all aspects.

I found I did not.

Middle & lower decks needed to be lower. Previously the middle deck had 8 inches of vertical viewing area. I changed that to 10 inches. The middle deck is all scenery for shoulder level rail fanning in a folding chair. 
Lower deck was dropped by 3.5 inches for a total of 7 inches vertical viewing area. The bottom deck is all visible staging at New Castle, PA with backdrop buildings and some OVR fab shops. Visibility is priority 1 but 2 or 3 story buildings at the rear and accommodating decent shop structure will be nice.

New decks heights:
Top @ 56 inches high (Reno, PA to Rynd Farm, PA)
Middle @ 38 inches (Franklin, PA and south area)
Bottom @ 26.5 inches high (New Castle, PA area).

Now we should see some notch 8 progress this Winter.


----------



## Raege (Jan 7, 2022)

I'm torn between going multi deck and shrinking footprint and using space for "others" enjoyment or saying f it and be selfish


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Raege said:


> I'm torn between going multi deck and shrinking footprint and using space for "others" enjoyment or saying f it and be selfish


I’m not going to say that I don’t know what to tell you, because I do. I just don’t want to be blamed for it.
I wish I had documented the various plans over the 3 years here. But here’s just a few facts:
Room is 24ft by 24ft including staircase. Has two egress windows. 2 support columns and 1 vertical drain ceiling to floor. Doorway on one wall to adjacent rooms (laundry, storage & bathroom).

My first plan was around what walls I could with peninsulas, 1 deck, no staging.
Wanted staging.
Discovered the open side helix idea. Redrew around the wall design again, turned one peninsulas about 40 degrees. Had 2 helices for continuous looping. Planned 2nd deck with single double ended yard, max siding length about 9-10ft.

Didn’t like the idea of climbing on the layout if evacuation via windows was needed.
Flipped aisle & layout concepts, now with perimeter aisles, island layout. Less backdrop needed, no doorways or duck under needed. Eliminated one of the two helices-wasn’t needed.

Had divine inspiration to change staging yard from double ended standard type to 6 continuous loops 6ft by 18ft with integrated & staggered ladder. New max train length is 12ft.

Second divine inspiration: Extend one “corkscrew” of the helix out under half the layout for scenes I couldn’t fit: City of Franklin, “River Run,” etc. This “extension” of the helix became the middle deck.

Kept things as connected to prototype as possible, North on layout is actual magnetic North. Pennzoil is North of Oil City, Arco is actually correctly West of. Had to move the Wye bridge or not include it, so that’s out of place but will be a “signature scene.” All industries are real current or past industries, in correct location. When I can I’m trying to recreate them as close as possible. Glassylvania will be a real challenge on masonry. (Was never rail served either but will be on my layout).

I’d have to recheck the math but I think combined square footage of all three decks is around 800 square feet or slightly less, in an area no larger than 24x24 including 3ft aisles. Three times as much layout in the same space. It’s like Buy One, get TWO FREE.
And a helix isn’t the only solution. A “cassette” such as a removable car ferry i.e. can work to shuttle cars from one deck to another by “plugging in” to different car float aprons. A lot less troublesome than an elevator system.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

So this winter I’m going to try and get 50% of the benchwork completed. I still need to drywall etc and will need some elbow room, so the other half needs to wait. 
Incidentally I got four 180 degree turns laid out on plywood, mostly double track 24” and 26.5” radii. Managed to fit all of that on a single 4x8 too.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Just a little pumpkin spice. That’s not the Seventies Salvation, but a 2nd 1x4ft switching puzzle that I reclaimed from long term loan. I wanted something new for photos. The pumpkins & corn stalk bundles will be details for the Seventies Salvation though.
Made from some sort of seed in autumn house decoration, and dried corn husk trimmings.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

The Seventies Salvation, but in 1:1 scale 1996.
Cab ride on a working day starting from Valley Yard, crossing Wye Bridge, through down town Oil City, PA, up to switch Pennzoil, and the trip back. Dual SW1500s.

Mind you my layout is faithful, but not an exact copy due to space limitations and I relocated the yard to about where the junk yard is. But otherwise…

*Prototype cab ride *on The Seventies Salvation. Enjoy!


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I’ve been experimenting with ballast mixes on a test section of Atlas flex. 
mix #2 was too similar to #1 so I skipped it entirely.

I’m torn between #4 & 5; too much gray in #4 and #5 looks a bit too much like raw cork. So I’ll probably add a tiny but more gray or possibly an iron ore type red.


----------



## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

I like 1, 3 and 4 and totally agree with 5 looking like cork bed so good call!


----------



## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I like 4 the best.


----------



## Raege (Jan 7, 2022)

I like 1 best as it seems closest to what’s spread in my area of country.


----------



## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

#1 would be my pick as well.
Maybe even a little more gray.

Magic


----------



## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

FWIW, I'm in the Southeast and I would describe the roadbed here as gray.


----------



## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

Have to agree with the folks going with more grey. I am attaching a pic here of our lines in Halifax along the water. The older track is more old brown and grey slate. The newer track fills are more gravel grey in my opinion. You can’t go wrong with any choice. They are both right.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

So I’ve been really happy with this bracket system my brother turned me on to.
I mentioned it in another topic here somewhere someone was asking about getting 24” curves into a 4x8 of plywood.

Anyway, more focus on these brackets & the wonderful versatility of them. Obvious endorsement of the method.









Above is shown 1 bracket clamped temporarily in place. That (and others) support wood sub roadbed, which cork etc will go atop. As depicted it can be adjusted so the top of the sub roadbed material is/can be even with 2” foam if you prefer.

Wonderfully, sub roadbed material can be a variety of things, mixed together as the brackets can be adjusted. So if you have 1/2” plywood but not enough of it, and 1/4” plywood, and 1x4s, and Tongue & groove boards laying around… That’s all viable sub roadbed material.

It’s also easy to adjust things laterally. I.e. if later I decide a spur would be better shifted 2” farther from the mainline, it’s pretty simple to shift things around and do some gap filling (spliced sub roadbed & track).

And then I got wondering…
I’ve got a bunch of old 1/8th paneling that I’ve been ripping out. 4x8s mostly, with mildew rot at the bottom. But I’m looking at a few pieces and it occurred to me:
Instead of cutting them in half and tossing them out…. If I cut them in to 3x6 foot sections, avoiding the damaged rot, and then glued them in layers to make 1/2” thick sheets for my rail yard…
I wonder if I’ve been tossing out stuff I could have used?

I mean sure gluing multiple layers is “extra work,” but trying to get 4x8s home in my “not a truck” sedan is “extra work” too. It’s already here, worst case it gets tossed out anyway. I’ve got nothing to lose by my guesstimate.

A long shot question but I wonder if anyone here has ever glued multiple layers of 1970s era wood paneling together?
I try to repurpose stuff whenever it’s practical & cost saving.

EDIT: P.S. the sub roadbed is secured through the brackets from below with 1 inch counter sunk screws. Allowing adjustments after ballasting etc.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

So this is just a fascinating way our brain works. When I was mixing blends of ballast, I hate #1, #2 was barely better. #3 I think I opted to not even test. (Edit: reverse that) 4 was ok but needed more black. And 5 looked great in the jar, too much like cork on… but looking at the blends side by side in their jars, I liked 4 and 5 most.

Once samples were glued down, I was less convinced, but still felt #4 was the best.

But it’s been about 1 month sitting here, analyzing, ignoring to clear any preconceived determination, glancing again, ignoring, taking another good look.
Now, #5 I hate, #4 looks a little less terrible…anyway… living with the results has made my opinion flip entirely.
Isn’t it just damn odd?
It’s an example of why I’m a proponent of living with test results for a while rather than a rush to finish. Not just with ballast, but layout height, or even a new mattress.
i think I try adding some iron ore just to see.








mix #5, formerly “yay, cork!” Lol









Still, better than the more common approach of just using off the shelf blends. IMO.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

On all previous layout (including the N one) I used ready made track and TOs that I simply spray painted and cleaned the rail heads.

But this go around, so many things are so different. My first multi-deck layout i.e.
As track goes I’ll be using Central Valley turnouts (kit form) and ties, with ME rail. 
And that is where I need some consultation (in addition to my brothers).

ME has two types of rail, regular and pre-weathered. The pre-weathered stuff is horrible to solder to. It has to be filed or something, and even then my bro says it’s iffy. 
*Does any one know a good way to prep these for solder?*

The other option is regular rail (without ties). My mind instinctively gravitates to spray painting them inverted, rail head down, and doing 99 feet of rail at once with feeders already soldered. 
*But a question popped into mind.*
Does anyone know if there is a chemical similar to “blacken-it” or “rust all” that would give a nice dark aged rust brown? I feel a brushed on “tarnishing” agent would be nicer than paint.

Side note; Previously I also stuck with code 83 throughout with depressions carved into foam for cork sidings to sit lower. But another “new” thing to me is I'm leaning towards Code 83 with HO cork for mainline and 70 with N cork for sidings & yards. I’m not yet decided on how I will address the transitions in both rail size and height. Possibly graduated styrene shims under the ties/cork.
If anyone reading this uses Code 70, could you verify for me that standard flanges operate without issue, or would scale/proto wheelsets be needed? Having 0 experience with 70, is there anything I should know/be warned of before committing?


----------



## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

IDK but I am a believer of KISS and just paint brush it after the big stuff is done. I try to do the basics first, lay track underwire turnouts power accessories and then, as you age, do the upright easy stuff, like weathering and ballasting track. If you do not get started soon, age will start catching up with you. Then there is the unexpected delays or burn outs...believe me I have lived it. Before you know it, you will be your fathers age and still overthinking it all....


----------



## REdington (Aug 20, 2018)

I've used a lot of ME weathered track and rail to make turnouts. Using the rail for turnouts, I use a brightboy and take all the weathering off the bottom of the base rail. Then tin the whole piece with Radio Shack silver bearing solder (part # 6400013). I also tin my ties before I start making turnouts. Once both the ties and rail are tinned, apply heat and they solder up quickly.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Lol well yeah it seems like it’s been a long process of planning these last four years. But I’m glad I haven’t leaped before looking.
I learned previously to paint rail before laying it. Once installed, getting the far side rail web is a PITA to the tenth power.
Although this time around all my track sections will be movable/removable and detailed on the workbench just like structures. So I guess pre/post install rail “painting” doesn’t matter.

My original plan would’ve ended up being dismantled by now had I dove in. Like you I’ve got two huge egress windows p, 48” wide each. The original plan had a curved corner yard right below them. Meaning I wouldn’t be able to clean them etc. The original breaker panel, which had rain water coming in through it, was right there too. That got torn out, relocated, and doubled in size. New windows. Got a new furnace before the layout was in the way of contractors, etc. Had to fix a crack in the foundation wall etc. Still need to drywall interior walls.
Layout wise, took me a while to settle on deck heights. That’s why I lived with a single section for a year. Easier to adjust L girders on one section rather than the whole layout. Imagine trying to adjust a helix after the fact! Lol no thanks. A fair bit of uncharted territory for me as I’m trying to do things different, if not better, than prior layouts… Which is par for the course. Benchwork is going up this winter though you’ll be happy to know. At least half of it anyway. Holding off on where I need to drywall still. But 6x18 is by itself is pretty good size to start out. I’d rather do it right, do it once, than do it over 4 times. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt but it was the wrong size too lol

_shrugs_
Got the rest of my life to build it. That could be 40 more years, or 45 minutes. I’m content, no regrets either way.


----------



## REdington (Aug 20, 2018)

OilValleyRy said:


> Got the rest of my life to build it. That could be 40 more years, or 45 minutes. I’m content, no regrets either way.


 I know when I started my railroad about 20 years ago, I thought I would have all the mainline done within the first 2 or 3 years. It took me 15 years. I've had a few mini ops sessions to find out if what I had would work and what didn't, I've changed. The past few days, I've reworked the trim end of Oroville yard to have better access to the 3 A&D tracks. My goal right now is to have a full ops session by the end of the year.

I know you have done lots of planning for you multi level layout and I like your approach in building the test module. Just some thoughts, on your track plan sketches, I didn't see any A&D (arrival and departure) tracks in the yards. These are useful if you don't want to tie up the mainline while a train gets trimmed (cars setouts and pickups). 
Tagging along watching your layout come to life.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

The way it is drawn, or perhaps traditional perception, is that there is one big loop of track.
It doesn’t normally operate that way though. Consult the Book of Armaments: Post 7, paragraph 3; the creator did spake… The mainlines, in normal ops, end at the green dots. On layout this will be indicated with painted ties.
The continuation of that outer track, and including the escape track turnout, are on the branch line that heads to Glassylvania and Pennzoil. On the other side of the wye bridge will be a turnout “cut off” that connects with the Westbound (outbound) mainline, closing the actual loop.

And I solved the yard planning issue I had with the cross over between in/outbound having opposite polarity issues (single mainline folded to be parallel). The mainline there will be the same polarity despite being the same mainline going in opposite directions. So I’ll probably have a couple cross overs between them. The mainline is really like a horseshoe shape.

One…Two…Five! No.. Three!!!


----------



## Raege (Jan 7, 2022)




----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

The first sub roadbed section has been installed. I know I’ve described it, but photos may help if anyone was struggling to grasp the concept.
The 2nd cross member back is not yet secured as 2 turnouts will be in that vicinity. The sub roadbed will get secured to that one also, at that time, to walkout a bit of warp it has.
But as you can see, a few screws from riser to cross member is all it takes to lift it all out. Another benefit of this concept is that you can use a variety of sub roadbed materials. That plywood is half inch, but I can use any thickness by adjusting the risers accordingly. So even if half inch plywood is sold out, I can use 3/4, or even mdf shelving boards if I really had to.










It’s also presently positioned about 26.5 inches from the rear of the benchwork. That will change most likely. Also easy as pie to make lateral adjustments.










The foam at the rear might not actually be used there. The front area will have foam in order to have the river bank slope and some guarantee of waterproof (versus plaster shell). I only use foam where I have reservations about plaster shell supporting structure weight or “water” containment. 
But more to the point; the 2 inch foam is about even to the top of the sub roadbed. I can carve down, build up, and even use a saber saw to cut curvature to match the sub roadbed radius if I choose. And all turnout machines are securely attached to the sub roadbed.

Note: cork road bed atop the sub roadbed is not shown but will be used.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Benchwork section #2 is in, but more interesting is I got my first load shelf installed. There’s going to be three of these around the layout. Probably end up painting them black inside with a small/dim LED for some slight illumination. Once fascia goes up I’ll cut a slot/pigeon hole into the fascia and label accordingly. Also each will get its own magnetic wand for removing loads from cars, so no need to carry wands around.
In this instance (Electralloy Co) it’s loads in empties out. Refineries are empties in, loads out of pet coke. In any case, the ops rule is the load does not get removed/inserted until the cars are pulled for their return to the yard.
Some folks do pull out drawers for this though I decided not to hide them and make them both clearly locatable and kind of showcased but not prominently (hence the dim LED).


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

So my backdrop plan has evolved quite a bit over the prior 12 months. Solving some problems and creating new ones along the way. But I think I've got it solved in the best way.

Backdrop area dimensions: 12ft by 31in tall, double sided.

Original plan: I was going to use 4x8s of 2” foam board with 2” wide half round raceway on the ends.
I felt this is too expensive at the moment, and also decided a solid backdrop might not be such a good idea.

Plan 2: Using masonite board with 1x2 join reinforcement and halved pvc pipe for the ends.
Decided halving pvc pipe too tricky.

Plan 3/Final: using 8ft x 31inch reinforced masonite boards, mated to 2ft x 31inch foam sections (for 12ft over all) and half round raceway for the tight radius.

The brilliance is I already have the masonite board and the foam and the 1x2 sitting here.

Please pardon me while I do a victory lap, skipping around the house quoting George Peppard from the A Team.


----------



## Raege (Jan 7, 2022)

looking forward to watching it all come together


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Some of you may have noticed that I have mentioned my preference for a vague track plan versus a meticulously computer planned… plan. While there’s nothing wrong with “TrackCad” or whatever it is called, I discovered two instances where I need to shoehorn in some solutions… which would have a big impact otherwise (hence my preference).









The first example (above) is lighter fare of the two. I’ve indicated the mainline (single folded back parallel to itself) in green. The branch to Pennzoil and connection to form a continuous loop in black. Reversing wye not necessary to illustrate for this.
Originally I was going to put the “double” main on one bridge, the branch on a separate bridge with 2-6 inches between them. My mental issue with that is the prototype PRR wye bridge was two tracks only.

Splitting the mainline approach to the bridge by a few inches and different curvature is seemingly convoluted and unnecessary.
Then again, it preserves the prototypical bridge design, and “jives” with the OVR adding a second mainline & bridge.









This second example is a bit more complex in nuance. This is the other portion of the wye connection… err, the branch line part. The mainline is off to the right side.
So originally the track was going to be a straight shot connecting to the mainline, with a turnout to cross the river, and a spur for an industry. Sounds fine.
The problem that I discovered is that the straight shot (and mainline off the right - not illustrated) would be too close to the aisle to fit Electralloy between the track & river. I realized this only when looking down the length of my benchwork and riser positions. That is when it occurred to me to change the turnout leading to the bridge from a RH to a LH, and… actually the drawing is a bit inaccurate here but the turnout leading to the industry spur would also change from RH to LH. Yes the drawing indicates a RH-my mistake. That creates, kind of, a cross over in essence. Eliminates an S curve on the industry spur, adds an S curve on the “straight shot,” but also bumps that track back a few inches from the fascia. That will allow for an easier connection to the mainline, which will not be exactly parallel to the edge of the benchwork where they connect.
Probably hard to follow that in text form; when you see it all come together though it’ll make sense.
Anyway, good examples of my method of maintaining a general track plan approach with maximum flexibility to improvise/change the finer aspects as kinks appear. It’s not for everyone, but I like it.


----------



## Christiaη (2 mo ago)

Who's that guy ?


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

That would be Sally Ride, named after the first female US astronaut because nothing will prevent her from exploring.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Just a helpful update regarding organization.
These are what I use for bus wire management. 1/2 cooper straps. 10 pack for $1.70 or 100 pack for $10. 
I bend one mounting tab back along the hoop, and use a single #8 3/4 screw on the bottom.
Easy to flex these, drop wire in behind it, and press it closed. No threading things. This is nice because you can run off whatever length bus you need, secure one end and just drop it all in real quick. Same for any lengthy lighting feeders.
I mount them in advance, vertically right along the front L girder. The fascia will also get mounted to the L girder edge. But they work well for organizing a spaghetti mess of wire too. My main purpose for them is preventing wire sag intruding the lower deck viewing areas.


----------



## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

I saw peg board also being used for wiring where the wire is routed through the holes and the peg board stand up on end....Kind of liked the idea of separating wiring for easy troubleshooting....


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

SF Gal said:


> I saw peg board also being used for wiring where the wire is routed through the holes and the peg board stand up on end....Kind of liked the idea of separating wiring for easy troubleshooting....
> View attachment 595034


I did it exactly that way on my first layout. I’m not going to say it’s wrong or bad, but I didn’t like it for a couple reasons. Taught leaves no slack for adjustment, having slack lends to sagging, and you gotta crawl under. I hate crawling under. Especially threading through holes. It can be rough on the knees. On my new layout, there is more layout under my layout. Lol It’s one of those new challenges for me with this layout, all that s5uff under the top deck is visible in the middle deck sky. So I’m running bus along the front edge, terminal strips at the benchwork joints, and hinged fascia doors (hinge at the top) to access the terminal strips where necessary. 
Been considering maybe stapling up some viskween… visqueen? Visk…. Semi-clear plastic as a light/clarity diffuser. But I can always add that later if desired so I’ll keep as a optional afterward thing.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Just a quick ancillary topic if/when who-knows-who might get ideas in their head.

OVR loco & caboose painting guide


----------

