# Does anyone automate their trains?



## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

Looking to see if anyone automates their trains running on their layout? I saw the large DC layout at the RR Museum of PA in which trains were automated and stopped at specific spots for specific times.

I'd love to automate the loop behind my chimney to have 2 trains run the inside tracks but not sure how to do that? I'd have to get two trains to stop at specific times and then have a double slip switch and another turnout automatically switch as they go from 2 lines to 1 around the chimney then back to 2 lines...


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

I worked in the electrical shop wiring control cabinets for robots pulling parts out of plastic molding machines.
I worked with PLC controllers and the software for several including GE Funuc, Allen Bradley, and Modicon. 
Those PLC's along with the software to just use program logic is pretty expensive, not to mention learning how to program ladder logic. Since I knew most of the software and hardware, I looked into buying a Allen Bradley PLC, the software, and programming cable to hook up to my PC and interface with my train layout. It was over $2000 just for the chance to get the thing automated. Then you want sensors to monitor train location, speed drives, and well....t wasn't cost effective in the long run. 
Today, they have DCC interfaces you can buy for your PC to run trains without the handheld controller but I am not sure if that would include timed stops at specific locations and all the bells and things you would want on a automated layout.
If you got enough disposible income, you can do anything!


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

I use Train Controller PC software to automate my layout with Digitrax hardware. It is pretty comprehensive in it's functionality. look at post 704
Granite Gorge & Northern


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

With MTH DCS, you can record an operating session and play the session back later. I've never done it.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Your system is DCC. The locomotives start, slow and stop
per digital information through the track. You would need
digital programming to do what you want done, You would
also need stationary decoders to control the turnouts
involved. These, too, would require digital information.
What you need is a digital code tech 
to create a program to do what you want done. 

However, you have available right now a very complex
control system that would do the job. It's 
known as your brain manipulating your 10 fingers.
And it's free. Well, maybe a toddy or so.

Don


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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

JerryH said:


> I use Train Controller PC software to automate my layout with Digitrax hardware. It is pretty comprehensive in it's functionality. look at post 704
> Granite Gorge & Northern


Does that control the signal lights as well?


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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

Lehigh74 said:


> With MTH DCS, you can record an operating session and play the session back later. I've never done it.


Thanks I'll have to look into that...


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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

DonR said:


> Your system is DCC. The locomotives start, slow and stop
> per digital information through the track. You would need
> digital programming to do what you want done, You would
> also need stationary decoders to control the turnouts
> ...


The brain and little fingers wouldn't want to automate it as it would be every 15-30 seconds which is a tad too often to enjoy myself. I did manually throw switches when I had the faster train pass the slower train by hand and that was a ton of fun but definitely wouldn't want to do it as often as I'd need to do...


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

afboundguy said:


> Does that control the signal lights as well?


Yes, by the rules you set.


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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

Awesome thanks! Their website is a little too in depth of a read for me right now as I'll be passing out in about an hour but roughly how much does the system cost?


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Software is 154 to 699 depending on version.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

On principle I do not officially automate trains, nor see myself ever doing so. 
I do set auto-pilot though.

I agree with SF Gal, a controller such as a Fanuc would be the most flexible. Modicon etc brands work just as well but Fanuc has world class tech/hardware support. I considered connecting my structure lighting to one but ultimately decided on a low-tech avenue. A Fanuc could actually automate yard classification and do the switching too. 
The principle I refer to is; I prefer interaction. If I want to watch someone else operate, I venture over to Youtube. It’s more cost effective. Fanuc systems are a wee bit more costly than a DCC system. Lol Neat stuff though. Demos & info are on youtube too if anyone is curious what they are and why the hype.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The only animation I have is a trolley back and forth. A lionel DC motor changes direction after it reaches the end and is stopped by a diode. I go 1 minute and then 30 seconds. The same board is also used to travel a circle and kill the center rail in a section to stop for 30 seconds. Then it would go for a minute,


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

JerryH said:


> I use Train Controller PC software to automate my layout with Digitrax hardware. It is pretty comprehensive in it's functionality. look at post 704
> Granite Gorge & Northern


Jerry, very cool video...I want that!
Do you have the bronze, Silver, or Gold package?
Could you show us the interface control wires between your DCC unit and your PC running the show?
I may just have to spring for this myself!!!!


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

I bought the gold but silver would have been sufficient but bronze couldn't do what I wanted in signal rules. The interface is a usb cable between a Digitrax PR3 and the PC.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Lots of people automate their layouts. Personally, I don't see the attraction. I want to RUN my trains, similarly to how a real train crew does.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I enjoy the automation because of the background noise or lack of it. I don't run trains constantly and walk away after testing something. At the bench I will hear a departure and remember I left the power on. I like the quiet between the departures. It is nothing like the Lionel bumper car always moving back and forth with a bang at each end.
I see businesses running trains constantly. A little delay would extend the life of an engine.


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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

@CTValleyRR I would only want to automate the 2 inside tracks around the chimney. I messed around seeing if I could get rid of the double slip switch and turnouts I have set up to allow them to go from 2 tracks to 1 behind the chimney so I could just run them at the same time but it would be totally impractical to try and manually do all the turnout changes and stopping the trains in that area...

The rest of the layout wouldn't be automated at all so I can enjoy the layout more!


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Agree with CTValley above.

Seems like when all you have to do is "press a button and the trains run by themselves", you're removing yourself from the "operational experience".

I can see why this would work on "display railroads", such as in a museum. In that setup, unattended operation makes sense.

But _on one's own railroad,_ it would take all the enjoyment out of it. At least for me. But then, I DID "run the [real] trains" for more than 30 years.

If you're not runnin' the engine... it's "somebody else's" train...


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I don't have enough variations in operation to warrant automation. I'm not against it for larger layouts running multiple trains with crossings and junctions, but it's not for me with my layout.

I have always been curious about it since seeing Wunderland in Hamburg.


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

I woud love to visit Wunderland in Hamburg! So cool.


JerryH said:


> I bought the gold but silver would have been sufficient but bronze couldn't do what I wanted in signal rules. The interface is a usb cable between a Digitrax PR3 and the PC.


Many thanks Jerry for the interface reply.... I have a DB9 connector, RS 232 serial protocol, on my NCE Procab. Pin for pin so I suppose they would have a cable from DB9 to USB....I see it is possible to buy one from CDW.

Silver package would also be in my cookiejar money funds...
As far as running automation, I am wondering if you could run automation and run a separate consist with your handheld, while the automation is running? I don't see why you couldn't as long as you are not interfering with the automation operation and maybe hooking up a consist in a yard....hear me out.....
I believe running 4 locomotives on a layout by myself with my handheld NCE Procab keeps me extremely busy! To the point where you want to let trains run to a imagined destination while you take control of one or two in the yards, unhooking a delivery or setting up consists, then rolling them out on the mainline and return to automation. Then grab another consist and bring it into a yard, taking it off manual control to switch around and deliver/dispatch, new car into another consist. Automation allows the user to take control and "focus" on a specific things. Once you start running 4 consists on a layout, it really can get hairy and you learn quick where the "panic" button is!
Having the whole thing automated is like having another operator in the room, who doesn't need snacks and a glass of wine! Yes, automating just gives you more control when you need it. I believe it also adds a bit of realism to your layout
This is how I want to use the automated part of the layout. Jerry, correct me if I am wrong, but can you do that with your automated setup?


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

__





CKT-PINGPONG: Motorman







www.iascaled.com


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

SF Gal said:


> Jerry, correct me if I am wrong, but can you do that with your automated setup?


I'm not Jerry (and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but yes, you can.

I have TC bronze. My thought was to use it just for controlling the turnouts and locos from the PC. Manually, mind you. Because, as Michael said, I don't have enough variations in operation to warrant automating. 

While the older Digitrax Zephyr All-in-one Command Station/Booster/Throttle is completely capable, the UI leaves a bit to be desired.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

SF Gal said:


> I woud love to visit Wunderland in Hamburg! So cool.
> 
> Many thanks Jerry for the interface reply.... I have a DB9 connector, RS 232 serial protocol, on my NCE Procab. Pin for pin so I suppose they would have a cable from DB9 to USB....I see it is possible to buy one from CDW.
> 
> ...


Yes, each loco can be fully automatic, partially automatic, or manually controlled. You can set some each way when you want to interact with other trains while driving manual controlled but you can cause a collision by your mistakes with the manual controlled consist when the computer cannot avoid the collision in time with the automated consists.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Also, you need to check on the compatibility of your hardware with TC. When I did this, NCE hardware and TC were not fully compatible.


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

Ya I will do more research. We had a guy in the club running off a computer but never wrote down the software he was using. I am positive there is RS 232 software out there just for NCE.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

afboundguy said:


> @CTValleyRR I would only want to automate the 2 inside tracks around the chimney. I messed around seeing if I could get rid of the double slip switch and turnouts I have set up to allow them to go from 2 tracks to 1 behind the chimney so I could just run them at the same time but it would be totally impractical to try and manually do all the turnout changes and stopping the trains in that area...
> 
> The rest of the layout wouldn't be automated at all so I can enjoy the layout more!


I'm not trying to tell you what your preferences should be. I'm just responding to the question you posed, and presenting my opinion on it. You do what you want. Your layout, your rules.

When we operate the layout, we have a passenger train running slowly through the layout, to make things more challenging by requiring everyone to stay out of it's way and line turnouts properly. But I don't call that automation. We decide at the beginning of a session how fast it will travel and what it's route will be.


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## rustyrails (8 mo ago)

you could go low tech low cost but still have a working system if you used an low rpm motor with a wood flywheel and electrical contacts installed , set it up so when the flywheel makes a revolution and the contacts line up and trigger a relay with a timer circuit . speeds on the track could be limited in sections by wiring up resistors to " speed control blocks " . you could have multiple contacts on the trigger wheel that control different circuits . you could also control trigger frequency by changing the rpm of the flywheel with a potentiometer. this is all assuming your running dc of course . you could also create a circuit with an ic 555 chip that would do what you want for little cost , no programming needed . but you have to know a little about electronics .


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## Djsfantasi (Mar 19, 2019)

You’d need to become familiar with coding. The Arduino microprocessor has a DCC project to build your own DCC controller. You could start with that and modify the code to run programmed sequences.

At least, that’s a starting point.

I run DC and use an Arduino Megs to control the layout. A major function is to animate the building and scenic lights. But it also controls DC power to the engines, detects the trains on the tracks, automates track signals and controls turnout position. I have a few switches unassigned on the control panel. One future idea is if I flip he switch, the trains go into a pre-defined sequence for demo purposes.

However, coding is as much or more a hobby for me as model railroading. It was my vocation for 50 years.


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## Larry.PRR (9 mo ago)

I do some automating using relays and insulated track to show train location. Not overly expensive. 
Larry.PRR


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

Without spending too much time reading the various responses, it seems as though some sort of DCC is being talked about.

You can go low tech by simply using insulated track sections. If you insulate the outside rails of a track that is hidden, and wire those rails to one outside rail of a track that is in view, as the train passes over the single insulated outside rail, it will power the outside rails of the hidden tack, thus power up a train that is parked on it.

The insulated section of the hidden track should be long enough so that when a train hits it, power is interrupted to that train. As for the "activation" track, it should be long enough so that a train passing on it will send power for a long enough period for the parked train to be able to leave the hidden insulated section.

I did something like this way back in the late seventies. If memory serves, when one train hit an insulated section of track, it stopped and the other train started. As that train travelled the circuit, it hit another section that activated the other parked train. 

Search Youtube for automated model trains or something similar.


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## djjeffr (10 mo ago)

afboundguy said:


> Looking to see if anyone automates their trains running on their layout? I saw the large DC layout at the RR Museum of PA in which trains were automated and stopped at specific spots for specific times.
> 
> I'd love to automate the loop behind my chimney to have 2 trains run the inside tracks but not sure how to do that? I'd have to get two trains to stop at specific times and then have a double slip switch and another turnout automatically switch as they go from 2 lines to 1 around the chimney then back to 2 lines...


Google: locofi.com This looks like it might help you without too big of an expense.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

Have you seen this guy's site ? Scroll through his videos and you may find something that suits your purpose.


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## djjeffr (10 mo ago)

Old age can't rely on a long memory any longer, nor can I afford the likes of Churchill's speech writer.
Sorry for the misdirection. Google: LocoFi for the exact website I'm referring to.
DJ


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## djjeffr (10 mo ago)

afboundguy said:


> Looking to see if anyone automates their trains running on their layout? I saw the large DC layout at the RR Museum of PA in which trains were automated and stopped at specific spots for specific times.
> 
> I'd love to automate the loop behind my chimney to have 2 trains run the inside tracks but not sure how to do that? I'd have to get two trains to stop at specific times and then have a double slip switch and another turnout automatically switch as they go from 2 lines to 1 around the chimney then back to 2 lines...


I'll try this again- Google: LocoFi for the exact website I was referring to that might be able to help you without a lot of $$ outlay.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Madman said:


> You can go low tech by simply using insulated track sections. If you insulate the outside rails of a track that is hidden, and wire those rails to one outside rail of a track that is in view, as the train passes over the single insulated outside rail, it will power the outside rails of the hidden tack, thus power up a train that is parked on it.
> 
> The insulated section of the hidden track should be long enough so that when a train hits it, power is interrupted to that train. As for the "activation" track, it should be long enough so that a train passing on it will send power for a long enough period for the parked train to be able to leave the hidden insulated section.
> 
> ...


There has been plenty of good advice already posted here on modern, high-tech systems that can automate your layout to a fare-thee-well (_if _you're willing to pay for it, and put in the time and effort to program it all!), but you may want to consider relatively low-tech alternatives of the sort Madman alludes to. For an example of a simple electro-mechanical block control system, using just isolated track sections, inexpensive relays and signal lights, you might want to review the write-up I just posted as another thread: Reproducing Marx "Twin Train" functionality The project I wrote up has been an exploration of and attempt to reproduce the functionality of the early Marx "Twin Train" sets, which included two trains intended to be run at the same time on a single figure-8 loop, controlled by the included signal block control. The material I included with the post (which I'll attach here as well) might spur your thoughts on adopting a somewhat similar control setup to meet your relatively limited needs. FWIW, I spent less than thirty bucks for the few pieces I needed for the project that weren't already in my parts bin!


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

It dawned on me that post-war trains may be the best candidates for a simple automated layout. For example, I tried running my K-Line GG1 on a section of track that has the Lionel post-war automated station. As we know the automated station uses a bi-metal strip that heats up and closes the contacts sending power to the track. However the modern GG1 with it's can motors does not move once it hits the insulated section of track.

I'm not an electrical genius but I suspect the can motors must be absorbing all of the resistance.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Madman said:


> It dawned on me that post-war trains may be the best candidates for a simple automated layout. For example, I tried running my K-Line GG1 on a section of track that has the Lionel post-war automated station. As we know the automated station uses a bi-metal strip that heats up and closes the contacts sending power to the track. However the modern GG1 with it's can motors does not move once it hits the insulated section of track.
> 
> I'm not an electrical genius but I suspect the can motors must be absorbing all of the resistance.


Mmm, not familiar with the Lionel automated station, but I suspect most modern engines would be significantly more efficient and draw less power and current than older engines, and if the station operates properly only with a certain level of anticipated power draw by the engine, I can see how that might screw up the proper operation. OTOH, activation of accessories or block control systems vary widely and IME seldom are dependent on a narrow range of current drawn, so I suspect most simple electro-mechanical automation setups would work just fine with more modern hardware. Just MHO, of course . . .


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

Steve on Cattail Creek said:


> Mmm, not familiar with the Lionel automated station, but I suspect most modern engines would be significantly more efficient and draw less power and current than older engines, and if the station operates properly only with a certain level of anticipated power draw by the engine, I can see how that might screw up the proper operation. OTOH, activation of accessories or block control systems vary widely and IME seldom are dependent on a narrow range of current drawn, so I suspect most simple electro-mechanical automation setups would work just fine with more modern hardware. Just MHO, of course . . .







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LIONEL TRAINS 132 PASSENGER STATION ACCESSORY


Identification details about the Lionel Trains Passenger Station Accessory that Lionel made during the Post-war period



www.tandem-associates.com


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Rudy's Hobby Channel, has a whole section on Train Controller, here is where it starts:




I would like to have some train automation on my layout, for instance, loading a grain train train. It would lend some realistic action to the layout, without it being tedious. The other reason for doing it, would be the challenge of the accomplishment.


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