# A couple of months in and already starting a new build.



## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

I have decided to build another setup. The first one is 10' x 6' l shaped. I have space for a 18"x 7". So i figure i would utilize this space for bigger trains and have minimum curves @ 0-42. Also thinking about DCC. I have already started buying track. I decided to go with gargraves due to the asthetics. Has anyone had any negative cons using gargraves? 

As of now i have mostly pre war so i believe i would like to try some diesels. All the trains i own are lionel but i would like to give MTH a go. I have heard a few things about transformer issues with MTH using lionel transformers so i believe i will get the ZW-4000. Any info on dcc direction and or transformer recommendations is welcome and much appreciated. 

My wife has convinced my to document the entire process via youtube step by step. I have much to learn and hopefully this project can teach me a grain of sand in what i would like to know. 

Benchwork starts in a few days. 
Thanks for looking.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

This was the first setup.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

The other side.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Crofinger, you have some great talent with scenery, and the second layout installment will give you all the room you need to stretch that talent out. Gargraves always gives a nice, scale look, but unless things have changed over the past ten or so years, apparently their switches present some challenge. Many go with Ross custom or Curtis Hirail, but their products, for as nice as they are, are somewhat expensive. Perhaps you can keep costs down a bit and still get the nice scale-appearing runs by keeping switching to a minimum, say a yard (or two) that is functional but with not too many switches, and some nice long runs that emphasizes scenery and trains, while keeping away from square-looking long runs, etc. Gargraves is good; just my opinion, having worked with it before. I even had some Gargraves switches that gave me no problems, but maybe I was lucky.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Crofinger said:


> I have decided to build another setup. The first one is 10' x 6' l shaped. I have space for a 18"x 7". So i figure i would utilize this space for bigger trains and have minimum curves @ 0-42. Also thinking about DCC. I have already started buying track. I decided to go with gargraves due to the asthetics. Has anyone had any negative cons using gargraves?


DCC? Are you sure you're not thinking DCS? This is O-gauge, right? As far as Gargraves track, it's not bad, but I prefer Atlas if you're going that way. If you can somehow fit it in, I'd have at least one loop with 72" curves, you'll be glad you did.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

callmeIshmael2 said:


> Crofinger, you have some great talent with scenery, and the second layout installment will give you all the room you need to stretch that talent out. Gargraves always gives a nice, scale look, but unless things have changed over the past ten or so years, apparently their switches present some challenge. Many go with Ross custom or Curtis Hirail, but their products, for as nice as they are, are somewhat expensive. Perhaps you can keep costs down a bit and still get the nice scale-appearing runs by keeping switching to a minimum, say a yard (or two) that is functional but with not too many switches, and some nice long runs that emphasizes scenery and trains, while keeping away from square-looking long runs, etc. Gargraves is good; just my opinion, having worked with it before. I even had some Gargraves switches that gave me no problems, but maybe I was lucky.


Thanks for the reply. 
I have heard about the switch issues and have already put ross switches in my list. My local hobby supply doesnt even carry gargraves switches due to said issues and instructed me to use ross switches. I would have just used all ross but i purchased 20 37" gargraves flex track brand new for 100.00.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Gargraves track is OK, I like the Atlas because it's solid rail. The Ross switches are a good move, because you don't want either Gargraves or Atlas switches if you can help it.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> DCC? Are you sure you're not thinking DCS? This is O-gauge, right? As far as Gargraves track, it's not bad, but I prefer Atlas if you're going that way. If you can somehow fit it in, I'd have at least one loop with 72" curves, you'll be glad you did.


This is why i am in need of guidance. Yes it is o gauge. So DCS is the 0 gauge equivalent to DCC in HO? I am confused. I would like to run decoders for speed control and sound. What should i research? 
The 0-72 is my main goal. I am going to try and stay above 0-54 but i am going to attempt a three track multi level setup. So the bottom track will have nothing smaller then 0-72 hopefully. Hope that made sense.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There are two main command systems for O-scale trains. They will co-exist on a layout, but are not compatible with each other.

Lionel LEGACY™ Control System

MTH ProtoSound 2/3


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Agreed with all, try to fit in a 072 loop, I didn't and acquired a train that will only run on 072! Still trying to build an outer loop so I can run it! Take your time and take into consideration what you want to run in the future! I'm keeping my inner loop ( smallest) just for conventional and switching! The outer loops go round and round. Somehow I never get tired of it!


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> There are two main command systems for O-scale trains. They will co-exist on a layout, but are not compatible with each other.
> 
> Lionel LEGACY™ Control System
> 
> MTH ProtoSound 2/3


Ok. Lots of reading ahead of me. Is there one that you would recommend? 
I also see that i have to use a PC. I run mac, would this be an issue?


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## California RailFan508 (Jul 2, 2013)

Crofinger said:


> Ok. Lots of reading ahead of me. Is there one that you would recommend?
> I also see that i have to use a PC. I run mac, would this be an issue?


You can always use the Boot Camp utility on your iMac in order to partition some of the hard drive and be able to install Windows on it for use. At this moment, my 2009 27'' iMac i3 Duo Core can run both OSX and Windows OS (Windows 7 Home Edition). 

Here is a link that will show you how to use the Boot Camp Utility in order to install Windows OS on your iMac so you can use both operating systems on your iMac. Enjoy! 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/249059/how_to_install_boot_camp_and_run_windows_on_your_mac.html


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I can't in good conscience recommend just one control system, that's why I have both.  I started with TMCC/Legacy, but I started getting MTH locomotives that I wanted to run command as well, so I got the DCS system. Both have their good and bad points.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

California RailFan508 said:


> You can always use the Boot Camp utility on your iMac in order to partition some of the hard drive and be able to install Windows on it for use. At this moment, my 2009 27'' iMac i3 Duo Core can run both OSX and Windows OS (Windows 7 Home Edition).
> 
> Here is a link that will show you how to use the Boot Camp Utility in order to install Windows OS on your iMac so you can use both operating systems on your iMac. Enjoy!
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/249059/how_to_install_boot_camp_and_run_windows_on_your_mac.html


My wife is allowing me to use hers. But thats not a bad idea.

Got started on some bench work today. Yay.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice start, looks like it'll be a nice layout!


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

Crofinger said:


> This is why i am in need of guidance. Yes it is o gauge. So DCS is the 0 gauge equivalent to DCC in HO? I am confused. I would like to run decoders for speed control and sound. What should i research?
> The 0-72 is my main goal. I am going to try and stay above 0-54 but i am going to attempt a three track multi level setup. So the bottom track will have nothing smaller then 0-72 hopefully. Hope that made sense.


 
In "o" scale ,Lionel Legacy,TMCC,or MTH proto 2 ,proto 3 engines , what you would call de-coders come all ready installed , all you need is a good power supply , Z-4000, and a remote system ie. MTH DCS system , Lionel's TMCC, or the [cab 2] Legacy, as for as the track,I agree with the others ,I used Atlas track with Atlas switches, I wish I would have used Ross switches insteed, I have had all kinds of problems, but in my case, its too late to change them out now.

take your time, think ahead of what ,or where you might want, plan your un-coupler tracks now ,,JMO btw, it looks great so far. .............Mike :appl:


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

Big Mike said:


> In "o" scale ,Lionel Legacy,TMCC,or MTH proto 2 ,proto 3 engines , what you would call de-coders come all ready installed , all you need is a good power supply , Z-4000, and a remote system ie. MTH DCS system , Lionel's TMCC, or the [cab 2] Legacy, as for as the track,I agree with the others ,I used Atlas track with Atlas switches, I wish I would have used Ross switches insteed, I have had all kinds of problems, but in my case, its too late to change them out now.
> 
> take your time, think ahead of what ,or where you might want, plan your un-coupler tracks now ,,JMO btw, it looks great so far. .............Mike :appl:


Thanks!
What issues have you had with your switches? I have decided to buy manual switches and make all the motors. I have a very good understanding of electro magnetics. A single or dual coil machine that is tuned to the travel needed for operation. I have made hundreds of coiled motors. I should post pics when i get to that point. Hopefully this week. Hell i might even start making them for any member interested. 
Is it the mechanics of the switch that fail or cause issues or is it the hardware or track?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd steer clear of Atlas switches and MTH RealTrax totally. I like the Atlas track, but consider Ross switches with it. If you want to go with track with an integrated roadbed, Lionel Fastrack has some of the most reliable switches.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

Teir two layed out a ready for three.









Mod edit: Rotated the display


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## California RailFan508 (Jul 2, 2013)

^^^ Looks pretty good so far, Crofinger. It will be interesting to see how it turns out as you make more progress on it.


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## Model Train Structures (Oct 10, 2013)

Really nice layout; I particularly like the waterfall.

D.A.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

*Update*

Here is a few pics of what I have been working on.


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

And another


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Cro that is coming along nicely. :smilie_daumenpos:

What I tell everyone, you can still edit these last 2 pictures. Go back click edit, then click go advanced, then click manage attachments (the paper clip), then click the attachment there or if you have more then one attachment click insert, it will then show up as a view-able picture in the thread instead of all having to click to see it.
It makes viewing for others much easier to just look at a picture instead of clicking back and forth.
Try it if you have a problem doing it ask me.

You know the you could have loaded those into one thread too, right? You can load many to one thread if you want also.


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## Model Train Structures (Oct 10, 2013)

Cro, looking good! That building on the right in the last pic looks interesting; especially the roof. The next time you take pics, include one of that structure.

D.A.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Do you have a drawing of the old layout?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looking very nice, you're really racing along!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

And then again you can leave them as links if you want to. :smokin:


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## Crofinger (Nov 22, 2013)

Crofinger said:


> Here is a few pics of what I have been working on.





big ed said:


> And then again you can leave them as links if you want to. :smokin:


For some reason it won't let me on my iPad.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That outside track must be a bumpy route when you reach the middle of the picture!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't have an ipad but I think others have problems with the pictures showing up using an ipad too.

What is the building you have under construction underneath there?
Going to be something like an engine house?


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## Cape T/A (Aug 15, 2012)

great work!


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