# Track Install and Wiring Recomendations



## bonez (Feb 2, 2014)

I am getting ready to lay track and finalize wiring design.

The track is fairly straight forward as I will use Titebond to glue cork roadbed to foam base, then caulk to bond track to cork. Any recommendations for caulk will be appreciated.

I plan on running 14AWG stranded for bus wire and 22AWG stranded for feeders. I have two mains each about 120-feet long, an engine yard and a freight yard (both stubs). Will run separate bus for each main and one each for the yards. Will attempt to place power booster in the middle of the main busses. Using NCE 5-amp DCC with circuit breakers on each bus.

Questions:

1) Which is better connector - T-Tap (3M #905) or IDC suitcase (3M #558)? The T-Tap requires a separate male blade disconnect for the feeder the other crimps both buss and feeder in one piece. Is the two piece reliable?

2) Shall I plan to solder feeders to all track sections regardless of length?

3) Shall I solder every joiner or leave some loose for expansion? My room is in Utah and has stable humidity and temperature control (64-70F yearlong).

Thanks in advance.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Nice looking layout. I like the slot track also. The perfect idea would be feeders to each piece of track. That just about takes care of any dead spots. I don't like to depend on
rail joiners to carry the power. They will sooner or later let you down. I soldered most rail joints on my last layout. Planning a new one and no joints will get solder. With feeders to each piece of track there is no need to solder. All you are going to do is take away the
clicky clack of wheels passing joints. The feeders will take care of the power.

Just cheap latex caulk to secure track to cork. Thin layer, don't squeeze caulk up around the ties.
Set something heavy on track for a day to hold in place.


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Also consider using your turnouts to power your yard tracks. This will help you control the sound of loco's you are not running but staging.


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## bonez (Feb 2, 2014)

I am using Peco Insulfrog turnouts. Planning in isolating each spur with insulating joiners and placing a toggle switch to power only when that spur is in use. Then the engines won't be idling when not on the mains.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

bonez said:


> I am using Peco Insulfrog turnouts. Planning in isolating each spur with insulating joiners and placing a toggle switch to power only when that spur is in use. Then the engines won't be idling when not on the mains.


Very wise choice of turnouts. You will have a smooth
running layout without turnout caused derails.

However, Peco Insulfrog turnouts are POWER ROUTING.
A spur on the divert would lose power when the
points are set straight. The insulated joiners and
toggle switch would be unnecessary. 

You should keep this in mind should you have a track
situation where you want the rails to be powered
regardless of point setting. You would need to have
a track drop from both frog rails to your buss or
through a panel toggle if you wanted to have control of it.

Don


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You could also use this connector to continue your 14 gauge buss and put in drops, then you can actual disconnect the feeder for trouble shooting.







No soldering, no nicking the wire like suitcase connectors. Its designed for a lighting buss with drops to the lights, same thing as a DCC buss with drops! Plus giving you an actual connector on the drop! There made by Waco, which also makes other useful connectors. Their on ebay and other places like Banggood.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

A compromise between the "solder all track together" and the "no solder, but feeders to every piece of track" approaches would be to solder track into roughly 3' long sections, then run one set of feeders to each section. That reduces the wiring and still allows for some unplanned expansion or contraction.

Another thought is to not solder the turnouts to any track. It makes them easier to remove if needed for repair or replacement.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm not sure either of the connectors you talk about work on stranded wire. IDC connectors usually require solid wire. The Waco Luminare I think takes either.


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## bonez (Feb 2, 2014)

Are IDC connectors reliable over time? I know they are used in the auto industry and don't recall loose connections in any of my cars.

Soldering feeders to the bus could be a pain under the platform. Also would need a tool to strip wire in middle of the run. Is there one?

Lastly, so soldering a feeder to every section and not soldering joiners is the recommended practice?

Many thanks for the help.


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

bonez, I have a wire stripper that when you squeeze the handle it first clamps down on the insulation and strips the wire. They work real well making stripping in the middle of a run no problem.


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## bonez (Feb 2, 2014)

Please provide tool information so I can evaluate the purchase.


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

bonez, see pic. unfortunately I bought this a long time ago. It was not expensive. It's a no brand. I think I picked it up at one of the big box stores. But it works very well. Hope this helps.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*3M "suitcase" connectors*



bonez said:


> Are IDC connectors reliable over time? I know they are used in the auto industry and don't recall loose connections in any of my cars.
> 
> Soldering feeders to the bus could be a pain under the platform. Also would need a tool to strip wire in middle of the run. Is there one?
> 
> ...


bonez;

I have used the 3M connectors, and some generic ones from Home Depot. Both types worked well on my stranded wire. I would recommend the 3M product without reservation. That company is known for the high quality, and high prices, of their products. I worked for 3M for 20+ years as a service tech. In the process I met hundreds of 3M customers, and never heard of a single substantiated claim of poor performance of any 3M product. Of course, the reason I was called always related to some problem with a product, why else would the customer have called for service? In most cases the customer wasn't using the product according to the manufacturer's instructions, tried to use it for something it was never designed to do, or the problem was not in the 3M product at all. Certainly their machines broke down, but most customers felt that the 3M machine was better than others.

I agree with you about soldering under the table being a pain, literally. When I was young and stupid, I had an HO layout where all track, and most other things were nailed down. There were a lot of nail points projecting just a little below the plywood. I was soldering wires under the layout but my soldering iron was on it's stand on top of the layout. I reached up grabbed the soldering iron by the wrong end, dribbled hot solder from the iron down the inside of my arm, and straightened up into all those nails! That was the day I learned to cuss; at a young age! 
It's funny now, but I didn't feel much like laughing then!:laugh:

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

ouch!!!


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## bonez (Feb 2, 2014)

So I think I will go with Atlas nails for securing the Peco track to the cork. My brother is coming from out of town to assist me and I think we can get more done than waiting for caulk to dry. 

What is recommended nail spacing for the straight sections and curves (31 and 28 inch radii) using cork roadbed?

Electrically -I am thinking of soldering joiners on the tracks that will be difficult to access once scenery is in place. Along with feeders on each large (24-36 inch) section this should bulletproof the electrical install. Still may consider soldering joiners on the curves too as it may help retain shape and adds electrical margin. Then easy access straight sections would be un-soldered joiners but feeders on every piece.

Any other advise?

Many thanks.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I would be tempted to solder the joiners on the curves, but do it before you bent the track to eliminate kinks. And the Lumair connectors will be my choice on the next layout.


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

Lemonhawk said:


> You could also use this connector to continue your 14 gauge buss and put in drops, then you can actual disconnect the feeder for trouble shooting.
> View attachment 284074
> 
> No soldering, no nicking the wire like suitcase connectors. Its designed for a lighting buss with drops to the lights, same thing as a DCC buss with drops! Plus giving you an actual connector on the drop! There made by Waco, which also makes other useful connectors. Their on ebay and other places like Banggood.


I strung my 14 gauge buss wire from end to end of my 16' table, trying to keep in the center. Then, I tried to connect the 14g and 22g wires from my MRC power source to the 14g and 22g buss wires. I had a helluva time with the Red suitcase connectors to connect the 14g and the 14g buss. The 14g wires fit into the connector, but after using an adjustable wrench to press the metal blade in, I couldn't snap the suitcase "flap" all the way over. 

I saw your Luminaire post and think this might be the way to go. So far, I have 3 Peco Code 83 turnouts that will require 6 drops per turnout for power routing (I am not going to power the turnouts, will do them manually). Could I drop the feeders into the Luminaire connectors for one turnout and then the two wires into the buss wires L. connector?

I've already had to cut my 14g buss wire at the center point due to severely nicking it with a suitcase. Had to put a lot of pressure on the wrench to push the blade into the two 14g wires. One thing I don't understand is why GM couldn't imprint the code # on the suitcases. The #905 is supposed to work and it shows as red on advertisements, but there are also other "reds" too.

I need to see a diagram that shows these L. connectors for the Buss wires and the feeders all joined up together. I'm a visual person. LOL


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm not a big fan of suitcase connectors, just because they nic the wire. Here' a picture of the Luminaire bus connector:








The end to the left shows where the bus enters and exits, the "Push" releases the connector lock to the feeder which has its connections on the top right. These things are designed for connecting lights to a power bus, just what we do when connecting a power but to rail feeders. you might check Banggood for a box of these connectors at a reasonable price. You do need to strip the ends of the wire (I think that funny 11 diagram is the strip gauge, but it works with solid or stranded wire 12 to 22 gauge (might be 14-22). You just push the wire in and it locks in place. A small screwdriver blade will release the wire when inserted itto the little slot below the 1 and 2.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Red is for smaller gauge wire, I believe you should have used blue for 14 gauge and then folded the 22 ga to make the splice.


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

Lemonhawk said:


> I'm not a big fan of suitcase connectors, just because they nic the wire. Here' a picture of the Luminaire bus connector:
> View attachment 554696
> 
> The end to the left shows where the bus enters and exits, the "Push" releases the connector lock to the feeder which has its connections on the top right. These things are designed for connecting lights to a power bus, just what we do when connecting a power but to rail feeders. you might check Banggood for a box of these connectors at a reasonable price. You do need to strip the ends of the wire (I think that funny 11 diagram is the strip gauge, but it works with solid or stranded wire 12 to 22 gauge (might be 14-22). You just push the wire in and it locks in place. A small screwdriver blade will release the wire when inserted itto the little slot below the 1 and 2.


Bear with me. I would cut the buss wires (Red and Black in my case), insert the Red (14gage) into the upper left Black hole and the Black into the upper right White hole. Then the two feeder wires would go into the holes on the other end, keeping the Red and Black polarity the same. And then to continue the main buss wires, they would go into the lower Black and White holes? Is that correct?

I would do the turnout power routing wires the same way. But would need 3 of these gizmos with the buss wires cut apart 3 times? It gets complicated because of 3 sets of feeder wires for each turnout.

These are the track feeds I need to do. There are six feeds per turnout on my Electrofrog turnouts.









Is it possible to have the feeder wires connected to a 6 position terminal block (8 position shown for example), 6 for the turnout power routing. Then I would only need to cut the buss wires 3x for the 3 terminal blocks. What I'm not sure of is the connection to the Luminaire. Can I use a barrier strip to connect the turnout feeders and then run two wires from the barrier strip to the Luminaire? Does this make sense?



















Is there a significant voltage drop with Luminaire connectors in the main buss wires?

I hope I've explained it clearly enough. I'm just trying to avoid 6 feeder wires going into 6 Luminaire connectors.

Thanks,
Bob


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

On the Luminair the bus is white in, which out and black in black out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with just using terminal barrier strips like you have pictures of and skipping the Luminares. Here is a picture of one of the terminal barrier strips and how its wired.









There are 3 bus's coming in from the top, the white/yellow and the green blue that also continue on to the next terminal barrier, The green/red does not continue nor does it have any feeders attached. The feeders are connected to the bottom part of the terminal barrier strip. In this case they are both blue/white colors (for rail a and rail b) and go off to Power pole connectors where the 16 gauge bus feeder is changed to 22 gauge going to the track. I have 4 main buses on my layout, 1 for the main inner loop, the main outer loop and and 1 for each of the 2 switch yards, but that's was just my choice, as with DCC I could have used a single bus for all! There are a lot of ways to do this. 

The second picture you have shows a terminal barrier strip where all the screws are common connected. This may be the easiest for you to use as you could designate one barrier strip as rail A and the another as rail b. Then the rail A bus in wire would get connected one screw and the the rail A bus out to another screw. That would leave 6 screws to which you could attach rail A feeders to. The rail B terminal barrier would be wired the same way but the feeders would cog to rail B. The turnout frog rails needs to be isolated after the frog and before you connect feeders to the rails. As you point out there will be a short otherwise, due to the points powering the frog. While the Luminaires have the advantage of and easy disconnect the terminal barriers have the advantage of being easy to test with a meter. If its easier for you to do the wiring using the terminal barriers then use that approach


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

Lemonhawk said:


> On the Luminair the bus is white in, which out and black in black out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with just using terminal barrier strips like you have pictures of and skipping the Luminares. Here is a picture of one of the terminal barrier strips and how its wired.
> View attachment 554788
> 
> 
> ...


I forgot to mention that I've cut gaps in all the turnouts just after the frogs. All the track is glued down and the gaps replace the insulated rail joiners. When I put power to the layout after doing this, my MRC power station didn't show the short as it did before doing the gaps.

Thanks for your time and patience. I'm not well versed in electronics.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You did the right thing! As usually it always sounds more complicated that it really is, just because there are so many different ways of doing the wiring! But keep those colored pencils handy because when drawing the wiring, bad things happen when the the Rad and blue get connected together. Also if you run a bus around a loop, don't connect the bus back to itself just leave end not connected to anything but a feeder to the rail, also you need to insulate the rails there so they do not feed back to themselves (important for DCC).


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

rvnmedic6869 said:


> Bear with me. I would cut the buss wires (Red and Black in my case), insert the Red (14gage) into the upper left Black hole and the Black into the upper right White hole. Then the two feeder wires would go into the holes on the other end, keeping the Red and Black polarity the same. And then to continue the main buss wires, they would go into the lower Black and White holes? Is that correct?
> 
> I would do the turnout power routing wires the same way. But would need 3 of these gizmos with the buss wires cut apart 3 times? It gets complicated because of 3 sets of feeder wires for each turnout.
> 
> ...


Bob;

I don't understand the need for six feed wires per turnout. I make most of my own turnouts and also have a few Peco Unifrogs and some Micro Engineering turnouts. None has ever needed more than three feeders, one to the metal frog, and one to each of the two stock rails. Where do your other three wires go?

Any decent electrical connector (including the Luminaire) should present only an infinitesimal amount of electrical resistance, provided it's installed correctly. Connectors form an all-metal path through themselves, and thus have about the same resistance as the same length of wire would, too small to show up on an Ohmmeter.
Terminal strips like the barrier strip shown in your photo, are great for making electrical connections, and handy for tracing any electrical problems that may come up. They are also a good way of making connections between sections of a layout, unless that layout may move frequently, like a portable N-Trak module for example. ( In the case of such traveling display layouts, Plug & Jack connectors would be more convenient. Most modular organizations specify a particular type of connector, so that all modules will be compatible.)
For the typical home layout though, a barrier strip will work just fine. 
By the way, there are mating strips with multiple spade lugs that fit onto the screws and between the barrier walls of this type of terminal strip. Entirely optional, but I use some on my own layout to make it easier to disconnect, and later reconnect the wiring of my sectional layout. (I'm old and partially disabled, so I pull one section at a time out and take it to my work bench, where I can work on it while sitting down.)

The photo in Lemonhawk's attachment reminds me of one tip regarding terminal strips. Never use flathead, countersink type, wood, or drywall, screws (like those in the photo) to fasten a barrier strip to the benchwork. These barrier type terminal strips are made of very brittle Bakelite material, and will split and break quite easily if that type of screw is driven into them.
(Whoever mounted the strip in the photo must have been exceptionally careful, or lucky, to not tighten the drywall screw on the left end of the strip. The screw on the right end passes through a metal plate, which keeps it out enough that it can't split the strip.)
Instead, use a round-head wood screw, or a pan-head sheet metal/wood screw . The flat bottom of the heads of these screws will not try to spread the hole in the terminal strip like the expanding cone bottom of a countersink flat head wood or drywall screw does.

I don't understand the particulars of your question about combining wires on the terminal strip and then connecting one wire to the Luminaire . However, if the wires you're combining are supposed to connect electrically, for example, several red feeder wires connecting to each other and then to the red bus wire, that will work.

The file below has more information on layout wiring.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

traction fan said:


> Bob;
> 
> I don't understand the need for six feed wires per turnout. I make most of my own turnouts and also have a few Peco Unifrogs and some Micro Engineering turnouts. None has ever needed more than three feeders, one to the metal frog, and one to each of the two stock rails. Where do your other three wires go?
> 
> ...


Please see my #20 post on page 1 of this thread. There's a color image of an Electrofrog turnout showing the track feeders for power-routing through it. I am NOT powering any turnout machines, will just do them manually. 

Note that there are 3 sets of feeders; 1 on the main just before entering the turnout and 2 on the other side of the frog. I cut gaps to replace the insulated rail joiners as the tracks are glued to the road bed. That resolved the automatic short built into these per the Peco and DCC Wiki info.

So, I would need 9 feeders total for the 3 turnouts. I'm trying to avoid 9 feeders going into the main buss via suitcase connectors or Luminaire connectors. 

My layout is a simple 5'x16' table with a main running the perimeter and a sub-division coming off of it and then reentering it.

Thanks


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Bob

There is no need to have 6 track drops at each of
your Electrofrog turnouts. That is the 'overkill' so often
found in 'how to' manuals and articles.
You need to put insulated joiners in BOTH frog rails of
an Electrofrog and that's all. You would use track drops to
your bus as usual every 6 feet or so. Any additional track drops would be
needed ONLY if the frog rails beyond the insulated joiners have
no current feed from 'the other end' of that track section. Each
layout is likely to be different with different drop needs. 

Don


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

DonR said:


> Bob
> 
> There is no need to have 6 track drops at each of
> your Electrofrog turnouts. That is the 'overkill' so often
> ...


I've got a package of insulated joiners I was planning on using in a future yard. As my tracks are glued down, I'll need to put the insulated joiners on by removing the track and trying to slip them on. 

I'm ready for a rubber band train or a rubber room. Or both. LOL

Thanks,
I'll post an update after doing the above.

Bob


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

rvnmedic6869 said:


> I've got a package of insulated joiners I was planning on using in a future yard. As my tracks are glued down, I'll need to put the insulated joiners on by removing the track and trying to slip them on.
> 
> I'm ready for a rubber band train or a rubber room. Or both. LOL
> 
> ...


Bob;

You don't need to pull any track up to install insulated rail joiners, unless you just want to do it that way. Depending on how you have your track held down, pulling it up may damage the track and turnouts.
Far easier is to cut insulating gaps in the rails and use superglue to hold thin bits of clear plastic in the gaps. These plastic pieces can be cut down to rough size with dikes and then ground into the shape of the rail after the superglue has cured. I wait 30-60 minutes.

I looked at your post #20, and the Electrofrog wiring diagram. I see three parallel, duplicate, feeders from the same bus wire up to the same apparently continuous piece of rail, on either side. Wire it that way if you wish, but two feeders on either side could be eliminated, since all three go from the same point, the bus wire, to the same other point, the rail. Doing that would reduce the six feeders per turnout down to the three that are actually necessary. However, it's your railroad, so you can run as many wires to your turnouts as you want to.

Traction Fan


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

traction fan said:


> ... dikes...


I haven't heard that term/slang in _years_.


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## rvnmedic6869 (Oct 29, 2019)

traction fan said:


> Bob;
> 
> You don't need to pull any track up to install insulated rail joiners, unless you just want to do it that way. Depending on how you have your track held down, pulling it up may damage the track and turnouts.
> Far easier is to cut insulating gaps in the rails and use superglue to hold thin bits of clear plastic in the gaps. These plastic pieces can be cut down to rough size with dikes and then ground into the shape of the rail after the superglue has cured. I wait 30-60 minutes.
> ...


I actually did cut gaps with my Dremel, on each of the point rails just after the frog. Will be doing the plastic/super glue filler in them next.
Thanks,
Bob


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