# Noob needing help with a Mantua steam engine



## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

Hi there, first post !

I was needing some help/advice, so many thanks in advance 

I started going to estate sales and whatnot the last couple of months, and it is common to find model trains and such, but I know nothing about them, so I usually look past them since I don't want to buy potential junk  Some things I resell, some I won't, it all depends. Over the weekend I found a lot of awesomeness at this one particular sale, and they had this one steam engine, so I caved and bought it .... knowing that I know nothing about them. Please see pics:





































The underside is marked Mantua, and the side of the engine is marked ALCO D-30. After googling some about it, I *think* it's a Tyco Mantua ? Maybe ? And HO Scale ? Maybe lol ? I also took it to a hobby store in my area (I live in the Dallas area) and asked them about it. They were really busy so I didn't want to take up too much time, but the guy placed it on a couple of pieces of connected track and then applied a charge (with a battery pack lol) to the rails, and the train didn't move. Note that the tracks didn't connect in a circle lol ... it was like two straight pieces connected in a row, not in a complete circle, so I don't know if that matters or not  But needless to say the train didn't move.

I think it may be missing a canopy on the back end of the engine (don't know what that's called), and I think there is a small coupling part coming out of the bottom front of the engine that has a broken tip. Otherwise .... I have no idea what I'm looking at, looking for, etc. I can't tell how much is metal, or plastic on it.

What I'm wanting to know is ... can anyone identify this ? When it was made ? How old ? Is it worth cleaning up and if so, how do I clean it ? If it doesn't work is it worth something ? I want to start knowing more about trains and what I'm looking at, and I figured this engine was a good enough place to start as any 

Sorry for the long opening post, I just wanted to be detailed and hopefully show my noob level  Thanks to anyone who can help !


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

It looks to be missing the cab. That can be found in someone's junk pile or ebay.

It would be worth cleaning and testing. If you find another one like it that is complete, then you have a parts loco.


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

rrgrassi said:


> It looks to be missing the cab. That can be found in someone's junk pile or ebay.
> 
> It would be worth cleaning and testing. If you find another one like it that is complete, then you have a parts loco.


Hey Royse City  Shout out  I actually spend half my time in Rockwall, and the hobby store I took it to yesterday to have it tested was the one in Rockwall off 30  The guy was busy and didn't spend a lot of time with me, but I appreciated his help nonetheless. So when he tested it by placing it on the track and applying a voltage to the track, was that sufficient ? I would think the track would need to complete a circle (like a circuit) but is that incorrect thinking on my part ? The engine didn't do anything when he did that, so I assumed something about it was toast 

And would it matter what kind of cab I put on it ? Is the cab something that comes off usually ?

Finally, do you know how told this one may be ? Most of the stuff that was at the estate sale (it was in Mesquite) was a lot of old vintage toys from the 30's - 60's, so I would assume maybe this one was from the 60's ?

Hey thanks for replying


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

It doesn't look to be that old to me but it's pretty hard to tell from here. Without the cab it won't be worth much as a useful engine on an operating layout. Somebody who needs it for parts may offer you $10 for it but unless it's old and rare that's about all you should expect to get for it unless you can get it running. Pete

http://www.americasbesttrain.com/shop/images/lnl11379.jpg


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

You have a Mantua Shifter from the mid to late 1960s. A cab for it can be found on any Mantua TYCO steamer as they all shared common parts including the afore mentioned cabs and motors. $15-35, depending on running condition...a very nice loco to start with, very good runner once cleaned and very easy to find parts for and maintain. I'm fairly certain I have a cab for it at home...:smilie_daumenpos:


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

There you go Metro. Shay is the master of all things steam and he knows best about these things. Make a deal with him for the cab if he has one to sell and you'll have a complete engine. Then get it running if you want to sell it. 
By the way any few sections of track will be enough to run the engine. The power pack will have two wires from it to the tracks and that's all that's needed to make it run. The circuit is completed through the engine not just the tracks. Pete


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

Okay guys, awesome info and advice .... greatness 

Okay so before I get a cab for it, I want to try and get it running. But I have no track, however, since the circuit is completed through the engine, I *assume* all I need to do is run voltage through the wheels ? If that's the case, what's the min. I need in order to make it turn ? I want to try and troubleshoot it on my own ... I'm handy with most things, so hopefully this will be an interesting learning experience lol. The guy yesterday at the hobby shop told me it would cost more to service it than it was worth (for a pro to do it, that is), so if I can get it to run on my own that would be sweet 

So any advice on how to proceed, common things to look for, how to do this on my own, etc ? I'd assume there is a decent article or post started on things like this somewhere already on the forum or the web ... so if someone points me there, that'd be great. I don't expect anyone to write an essay for me yet haha 

If I can get it going, then I would probably get the cab for it, but I think I'd also try and replace that front coupling on the very front of it as well, as I'm pretty sure that's broken off there. I guess it's a coupling I should say ... that's what the hobby guy told me, although it felt more like a switch the way it toggled. I'd take another pic of what I'm trying to describe and post it, but my good macro camera is loaned out for the week to my kids as of yesterday night and I won't see it again for a week.

Hey thanks again both Shay and Nor, much appreciated


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

metroline2 said:


> Hey Royse City  Shout out  I actually spend half my time in Rockwall, and the hobby store I took it to yesterday to have it tested was the one in Rockwall off 30  The guy was busy and didn't spend a lot of time with me, but I appreciated his help nonetheless. So when he tested it by placing it on the track and applying a voltage to the track, was that sufficient ? I would think the track would need to complete a circle (like a circuit) but is that incorrect thinking on my part ? The engine didn't do anything when he did that, so I assumed something about it was toast
> 
> And would it matter what kind of cab I put on it ? Is the cab something that comes off usually ?
> 
> ...


I'm actually closer to Caddo Mills, than RC. I grew up in Lavon. I have been in the area since 6th grade (1976)

If you are talking about Hobby Town in Rockwall, I'm not too impressed with them. I usually go to Discount Model trains in Addison, and Greenville Hobby Depot, in Greenville. I've known the owner for a few years.

The Hobby Town by Presby in Dallas in Walnut Hill Lane is a great store to visit.

You do not need a circle of track to test the locomotive. If the locomotive moved, then good. However it will need a good cleaning and lubrication.

Shaygetz is very knowledgeable, and a good person to deal with.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I have that cab for you, just PM me an address and it's yours. You'll find good assembly instructions right here... http://hoseeker.org/mantuainstructions.html ...past the Mantua Classics icons on the top row near the bottom. For testing motors without track, I use this set-up... http://bobsmodelworks.com/2008/08/swap-meet-tech-tip-1/

For cleaning I use a rubbing alcohol to remove the crud and dirt with a toothbrush and/or Q-Tips. Once clean I reassemble it using a light plastic compatible grease on the gears and Wahl Hair Clipper Oil or Labelle #106--both are plastic compatible light oils, a very tiny drop will do you--on each bearing point. Once done, I recommend adding a pair of wipers on the tender trucks like so... http://bobsmodelworks.com/2011/08/mantua-ho-scale-cmps-rr-2-6-2-prairie-2/ ...any 2 axle HO scale truck wiper found on eBay will do the trick and it needs no soldering.

Hope that helps...


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

rrgrassi said:


> I'm actually closer to Caddo Mills, than RC. I grew up in Lavon. I have been in the area since 6th grade (1976)
> 
> If you are talking about Hobby Town in Rockwall, I'm not too impressed with them. I usually go to Discount Model trains in Addison, and Greenville Hobby Depot, in Greenville. I've known the owner for a few years.
> 
> ...


 Yes I was talking about Hobby Town in Rockwall ... I can see why you'd say you weren't impressed. They were slamming busy, only two people there, one of them claimed to know nothing about model trains !!! I think I may head to the one you mentioned in Addison if I need more help ... I split my time between Richardson and Rockwall, so Addison is close to me also. And after googling a bit, I saw some bad reviews about the one near Presby 

And concerning Lavon ... Lake Lavon used to be my favorite fishing spot  Growing up I would go there 3 weekends out of the month, to Collin Park Marina, and catch my limit of crappie and sand bass every single time, with or without my dad's boat. When a tornado destroyed the Marina back in the 90's, all that ended. Haven't been back there now in years, but the last couple of times I tried I didn't have a boat and they wouldn't let me fish from the slips without owning one, so whatever lol. And yeah ... I've fished at the dam many times as well, never caught a single thing there ;-)



shaygetz said:


> I have that cab for you, just PM me an address and it's yours. You'll find good assembly instructions right here... http://hoseeker.org/mantuainstructions.html ...past the Mantua Classics icons on the top row near the bottom. For testing motors without track, I use this set-up... http://bobsmodelworks.com/2008/08/swap-meet-tech-tip-1/
> 
> For cleaning I use a rubbing alcohol to remove the crud and dirt with a toothbrush and/or Q-Tips. Once clean I reassemble it using a light plastic compatible grease on the gears and Wahl Hair Clipper Oil or Labelle #106--both are plastic compatible light oils, a very tiny drop will do you--on each bearing point. Once done, I recommend adding a pair of wipers on the tender trucks like so... http://bobsmodelworks.com/2011/08/mantua-ho-scale-cmps-rr-2-6-2-prairie-2/ ...any 2 axle HO scale truck wiper found on eBay will do the trick and it needs no soldering.
> 
> Hope that helps...


 This post right here will give me more than enough to chew on and point me in the right directions haha ... many thanks for your time and the links  And I have no probs giving you my address, but I don't want to be disingenuous either, because if I start to try and clean it/troubleshoot it and my attention span runs out, I'm probably going to just turn around and try and sell it for parts, so I can't accept a cab from you without paying for it, and I wouldn't want to pay for it until I know I can get it running  That's very gracious though, very nice indeed  Thank you :smilie_daumenpos:


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

metroline2 said:


> ...if I start to try and clean it/troubleshoot it and my attention span runs out, I'm probably going to just turn around and try and sell it for parts...


Appreciate the candor...it's available if you do get her running.:thumbsup: ...if not, I do have a parts bin it will fit nicely


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

Okay I checked those links, examined some of the instructions for a shifter a bit, and I have a couple of questions:

* The rear "passenger" side wheel on the front engine had what looked like a black ring of some kind around the inside rim of it, and it was crumbling and coming off. It's opposite the insulated wheel (with the white rim). Under that black crumbling ring (at first I thought it was some kind of old, thin washer or band, but if it was, it's turned into solid garbage now) you can see where the wheel is corroded around it's circumference. It's not heavy, but enough to point out. If I had my camera with me I'd take a pic unfortunately, so I'm trying to go by description here.

I looked at the worm motor, and it turns fairly smoothly. So could the main culprit be this wheel ?


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

shaygetz said:


> Appreciate the candor...it's available if you do get her running.:thumbsup: ...if not, I do have a parts bin it will fit nicely


 And thanks again ^_^


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

You're looking at the traction tire...it would have some effect, but not enough to keep it from running. There are several cures...orthodontic bands, small O-rings, etc...you'll need to be creative but it's not a big mountain to climb. Just clean off the corrosion and go from there...


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

shaygetz said:


> You're looking at the traction tire...it would have some effect, but not enough to keep it from running. There are several cures...orthodontic bands, small O-rings, etc...you'll need to be creative but it's not a big mountain to climb. Just clean off the corrosion and go from there...


 Okay cool ... and I tried rigging a 9V battery and applying the juice to the wheels in every way imaginable, and I got zero from the motor. I think I'll try and take it in tomorrow to a hobby shop and get a set of eyes on it before I try and clean it, and mess with it some more 

Hey thanks to you, and to all, for ya'lls help thus far


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

Okay so I went ahead and cleaned it to the best of my ability instead of waiting ... rubbing alcohol and compressed air to get rid of the gunk, toothbrush and q-tips, etc. I think the alcohol started to mess with the outer finish however :/ ... so I'm going to try and finish cleaning the outside of the train with something else. Suggestions ?

Either today or tomorrow I'm going to take it into a hobby shop again and have it looked at with physical eyes to test it, show me where something may be off, etc. Thanks again all


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

I took it in today ... you can actually hear it trying to move now, which you couldn't do before, but it has yet to *work*. The guy recommended I clean certain parts of it again, so I'm going to do that over the next few days and give it another go hopefully. Thanks again for everyone's help


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Another thing to try, is loosen the motor so that the worm gear no longer makes contact with the wheel set. See is the wheel set turns sooth and easy, like easy enough that it can free wheel with very little effort.


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

rrgrassi said:


> Another thing to try, is loosen the motor so that the worm gear no longer makes contact with the wheel set. See is the wheel set turns sooth and easy, like easy enough that it can free wheel with very little effort.


You mean see if the wheels move without the worm gear impeding them ? Yeah they move just fine ... and the motor itself turns rather easily by hand as well.

My weekends are my busy time, and I won't have time to focus on it again until this coming week unfortunately. I'm going to clean it all again, this time taking Brasso to the wheels, and lightly scrubbing them, etc ... things like that ...


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## metroline2 (Jul 28, 2013)

Still haven't gotten it working ... will keep trying over the weekend perhaps


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