# Con-Cor 4-8-4 Northern S-2



## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

I just purchased a used Con-Cor 4-8-4 Northern S-2, which can be seen on the Encyclopedia here.

It didn't come with any manual. Does anyone have a manual they can scan for me or an exploded parts diagram?

This is my first steamer and I want to make it have all the bells and whistles (and chuffs). But I can't even figure out how to separate the drawbar or remove the tender's body shell... Remember, I'm a Noob. :smilie_auslachen: I don't want to force anything and risk breaking my new toy.

Comments and advice welcome. I'm leaning toward the ESU Loksound Select Mico. Until I get the tender open, though, I have no idea if a speaker will fit anywhere. I wouldn't mind adding a light on the rear of the tender and maybe a firebox type light in the loco's cab. I'd also like to make the front headlight directional. I may be in over my head here.


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## powersteamguy1790 (Mar 26, 2012)

N-Noob:

The tender shell just lifts off by placing a small jewelers screwdriver between the tender frame and shell. You could probably fit a small Zimo cube speaker in the tender along with a ESU Lok Sound Select Micro decoder. 

One note of caution. Your layout will need 19 inch radii to get these steamer to work properly. The larger wheel base is extremely rigid.

Have fun with it.


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

powersteamguy1790 said:


> The tender shell just lifts off by placing a small jewelers screwdriver between the tender frame and shell.


I'm not able to see the seam where it separates - even with my 5x magnifying glass.... lol. This is a nicely built toy.



> One note of caution. Your layout will need 19 inch radii to get these steamer to work properly.


I hope you're thinking of the newer GS-4 version. The Spookshow site mentions this issue. It says the S-2 runs well on 9.75" curves. My layout has minimum 11" on the inner runs. So far, everything I own can travel every bit of track - although the passenger cars do look awkward on the tighter radii. I'll be a bit unhappy if this steamer breaks the standard, but it can live on the outer runs if necessary.


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

I got the tender shell off and after scratching my Noob head a bit, believe I purchased the 1985 Kato version, rather than the 2001 Con-cor. This one doesn't have the plug & play socket. Can it be converted to DCC? I think I'm in over my head. again.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Yes, it can be converted...but...you'll need to make sure the motor is electrically isolated from the frame....


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

*S2*

I believe the dz123 or dz163 is the right size decoder, but if your doing sound look at locsound you won't be disappointed .


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Con-Cor brand*



N-Noob said:


> I got the tender shell off and after scratching my Noob head a bit, believe I purchased the 1985 Kato version, rather than the 2001 Con-cor. This one doesn't have the plug & play socket. Can it be converted to DCC? I think I'm in over my head. again.


 N-Noob;

Con-Cor makes very few of the products it sells. They are more of an importer/dealer than
a manufacturer. Some of their locos are actually made by Kato. The 1958 Kato and the 2001
"Con-Cor", MAY be the same inside, and possibly both Kato-made. I don't know. If Kato made it, they have excellent after sale service www.katousa.com. If not, contact Con-Cor. They may be able to furnish a direction sheet with an exploded view.
As for DCC conversion, that can be done on just about any locomotive, that has room for a decoder,(and a speaker since you want sound). I have an older N scale model of a 4-8-4 northern done in a beautiful, green, Great Northern Railway, scheme. I will check how it comes apart and post later if you wish. The large tender should accommodate a speaker.
I use surplus speakers that are a good fit in an N scale tender, or box car. I think they were originally used in laptop computers. 
Decoders are getting smaller all the time. Even some decoders intended for Z scale can be used for N scale. Just be sure you measure the maximum(stalled) current of the loco; and don't exceed the decoder's current rating.
Your project sound's like quite an undertaking, especially for a newbee, good luck.

Traction Fan


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

Who made your Great Northern? Mine also is the GN Glacier green scheme. 

The spookshow website is what I'm basing my belief. It mentions the 1985 Kato is mfg'd in Japan and imported by Con-Cor. The 2001 Con-Cor supposedly used most of the same tooling, but mfg'd by/for Con-Cor in China. It has the PNP 8 pin socket. I'm convinced I have the Kato.

I couldn't find anything on Kato's website. I'll shoot them an email and see if they have anything in their archives. I might just re-sell this and continue the search for the 2001 DCC ready version. I've got a bunch of Empire Builder passenger cars itching to be pulled, though.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Great Northern Manufacturer*



N-Noob said:


> Who made your Great Northern? Mine also is the GN Glacier green scheme.
> 
> The spookshow website is what I'm basing my belief. It mentions the 1985 Kato is mfg'd in Japan and imported by Con-Cor. The 2001 Con-Cor supposedly used most of the same tooling, but mfg'd by/for Con-Cor in China. It has the PNP 8 pin socket. I'm convinced I have the Kato.
> 
> I couldn't find anything on Kato's website. I'll shoot them an email and see if they have anything in their archives. I might just re-sell this and continue the search for the 2001 DCC ready version. I've got a bunch of Empire Builder passenger cars itching to be pulled, though.


 Mine came in a fancy book type box, prominently labeled "Con-Cor" and has a Con-Cor logo embossed into the bottom piece under the drivers. However, off in a corner of that same piece, is a tiny Kato logo. I bought this used many years ago, so it can't be a 2001 model.
It has a Kato split frame mechanism, a 5 pole open frame motor, and no DCC plug.
I had taken my northern apart years ago and looking at it now, I can see that isolating 
the motor from the frame should be a simple mater of using some insulating tape. 
The loco shell is held on, in front, by simply tucking the mechanism under part of the boiler.
The rear appears to be a simple snap fit. On my(Kato) model, the boiler front, and firebox are painted silver. Slipping a small flat blade screwdriver under each of the silver firebox; should free the rear of the mechanism to pivot down. It appears to be held in place only by a tiny plastic pin on each side of the shell fitting into divots on the mechanism. On my model this does not seem to hold very tightly, so I may add some other holding device later.
I have examined the loco and can't find any hole where a screw would have gone to hold the shell on. The three screws at the bottom plate below the drivers, simply hold the drivers
in place, not the whole mechanism.
As for re-selling and replacing, that would make DCC conversion easier, but you would also be trading a Kato(the best locomotive brand on earth) for an unknown loco from some Chinese firm. Your choice. 

Good luck either way;

Traction Fan


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

We've got the same model. It is very nice. I've only run mine on a 3' test strip, but my DCC layout can run DC by disconnecting a couple of wires (losing turnout control)... and I got nothing better to do today.... so the Empire Builder might take a few laps.

My loco's shell comes off easily. Any lifting from cabin end raises the shell. Any snaps that may have existed are not working. With shell removed, I see two fasteners holding the frame halves together, with the motor mounted in between. Without an exploded diagram, I'm wary to separate the frame. Seems like a tiny spring jumps out and hides whenever I take apart something without a diagram... 

Thanks for taking time to post, T-fan. The google hasn't helped much with this. I did find an article on converting a Kato 2-8-2 _Mikado_, but that appears way more complicated than this one.


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

Here's a pic of the loco under discussion.










I still haven't figured out how to disconnect the drawbar. I removed the forward truck on the tender, which allows removal of drawbar, as my work around. Maybe this is how you're supposed to do it?

In case someone else finds this thread searching for the "trick" to removing the tender shell... the rear ladders have pins that must be released. I used a small screwdriver to push them away. 










Then, the tab on the bottom (it's hidden under the rear truck)is pushed forward and in/up.










The front of the tender shell is held just by friction and will come loose with a little coaxing after the rear is slightly lifted.

I hooked up the analogue transformer and ran the loco around my layout. It runs real nice. Will crawl at almost imperceptible speed, and top end is scary fast. I can't pull the cars, though, until I do something about the Rapido coupler.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*same engine*

N noob;
From your photos, it looks like we have the same engine. To git rid of the rapido coupler, I'd
cut off the coupler and it's entire mounting bracket from the back of the tender's rear truck.
Then I would body mount a Micro Trains coupler. 
Have you decided yet weather you are going to keep this loco, or get a 2001 model with a DCC plug? 

Traction Fan


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

*S-2*

Sounds like someone's looking for a deal on a loco, I've got some. Look in the for sale section.


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

traction fan said:


> I'd cut off the coupler and ...


Yeah... but then you're not from Noobville.



traction fan said:


> Have you decided yet weather you are going to keep this loco, or get a 2001 model with a DCC plug?


I'm going to keep it at least until I can hands-on compare the DCC ready version....

Which brings me to Viperjim's post ....


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*It's not that difficult*



N-Noob said:


> Yeah... but then you're not from Noobville.
> 
> 
> No, I'm not, but it doesn't take loads of experience to remove the back truck, hold it down, and use a razor saw to cut off the old coupler. Mounting a Micro Trains coupler isn't brain surgery either. The couplers come with good directions, and Micro trains offers a coupler/track gauge and a drill and tap made especially for the job. If you are using knuckle couplers, at some point you will need to learn how to replace Rapidos with them. You might want to try a simple freight car first, before you do a locomotive. Compared to your planned tasks of adding a decoder, speaker, firebox fire and external lights, changing a coupler is easy.
> ...


LALa lalala


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

I got up the nerve to loosen the chassis fasteners and removed the motor and nothing fell out of place. :smokin: Who needs a manual?!










I've decided to attempt to convert the Kato to DCC. My first attempt with a non-DCC ready loco. Wish me luck. I think I'll start a new thread in the DCC forum to continue this discussion.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Good for you!*



N-Noob said:


> I got up the nerve to loosen the chassis fasteners and removed the motor and nothing fell out of place. :smokin: Who needs a manual?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 N-Noob;

I don't know how much you already know, so please excuse me if I re-cover familiar ground. The brass circular objects in the photo are motor brush housings. The orange and gray wires from the decoder should be soldered(*See important footnote before you solder!) one on each brush. Which color goes on which brush is a random guess. If you get them backwards, that won't harm loco or decoder.
The loco will run backward though. You can then reverse the wires to fix that problem.
If you prefer, or have the entire loco re-assembled, and don't want to take it apart again,
the reverse/forward function can be reprogrammed with CV29. 
Looking at your loco from an engineer's view, from cab forward to the front, the red wire should go to the right 1/2 of the loco's split frame, and the black wire to the left 1/2.
This one is just an NMRA recommended practice. Getting these two backwards won't harm anything.
The other wires are for lights. Your decoder's instruction sheet will tell you what goes where.
The tough part of converting this loco, may be getting the motor back in the frame, after the wires are soldered onto the brush housings,* and insulating tape is put between those housings and the loco frame. This insulating of the motor from the frame is critical. Not doing it CAN DESTROY the DECODER! To make room to fit the motor, insulating tape and wires all back in the space originally filled by only the motor, it may be necessary to grind away a little of the metal frame on either side of the motor. If you do this, try to mask off
the slot between the two frame halves. Any metal bits that get in there can cause a short.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan

* IMPORTANT NOTE on soldering wires to the motor brush housings. The brass housings are usually mounted(either screw threaded, or more commonly, just pushed in) the plastic back piece of the motor. It is all too easy to melt/damage this plastic when applying heat from the soldering iron to the brass housings. To prevent this you basically have two options.

1) Remove the brass housings from the motor to solder. (If you decide to use this method, you can remove the copper strip from each housing. They wont be used anymore.) Removing the brush assemblies is perfect for protecting the plastic from heat, but there is a down side to this option. Directly under each brass piece there will be a very tiny carbon brush, and an equally tiny spring. These parts absolutely love to fly out and get lost. This turns your motor into a fish line sinker, as it can not run without the brush and spring.

2) Solder the wires on with the brass housings still in the motor. The possible problem here is the plastic meltdown already mentioned. 
To prevent this:
a) Use the lowest wattage soldering iron you can find. I have a 15 watt one that works fine. You could probably go to 25W or even 30w, but no higher.
The lower the wattage the better your chances. (within reason. We still need to apply enough heat to the brass housing to get it melt solder.)
b) Use a heat sink. The easiest way to do this is to wet a paper towel in ice water and lay it over the brass housing, then melt or cut a small hole in the towel just big enough to expose part of the housing. (Or you may prefer to solder to the copper strip.) Now melt a little bit of solder onto the housing. Leave the iron on the housing just long enough to have the solder stay shinny. 
c) "Tin" the wire before soldering it onto the housing.
d) Now that both the wire and the housing have solder, QUICKLY solder the wire on. Leave the wet towel in place. Once the solder connection has cooled, you can just tear the towel to remove it.
e) Repeat the process on the other housing.


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## N-Noob (May 10, 2015)

Thanks again, T-Fan. You don't need to worry about speaking down to me. I need things to be as idiot-proof as possible. Your explanation is very helpful. Most of the info I've been able to find assumes a level of knowledge that I don't yet have.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*DCC info*



N-Noob said:


> Thanks again, T-Fan. You don't need to worry about speaking down to me. I need things to be as idiot-proof as possible. Your explanation is very helpful. Most of the info I've been able to find assumes a level of knowledge that I don't yet have.


 N-Noob;

There are several books explaining,(in fairly plain English) and showing, (in clear color photos) DCC stuff, including how to install a "hard wired"(Aka soldered) decoder in several different locos. You can check www.kalmbach.com the publisher or www.amazon.com the books, and everything else, site.
I'd recommend "The DCC Guide" by Don Fiehmann. Another good one is "Basic DCC Wiring" by Mike Polsgrove.

regards;

Traction Fan


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