# Lionel 221 & Pullman Cars



## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Finally got the set I picked up in the mail. I started to disassemble the engine and had some questions. From what I've read, this engine is supposed to come with a headlight and this one is missing it. Also, what is the best way to remove the side rods from the body? I wanted to do a quick respray on the body. 

The wiring on the inner workings is looking pretty bad too. Is there a kit you can purchase to rebuild the whole unit? 

I'll take any input to get this thing going again!

Here's some pictures of the engine and cars:














































Inside:


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

Sweeet! Nice pickup.

T-man, Tj and Reckers and a few others should be able to give you some advice on how to rebuild your Lionel:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fel,

You're tugging on my heartstring here with any mention of a 221, you know. I really like this loco ... one of the first "real" old-school Lionels I tracked down for my little collection.

I think I had mentioned my earlier thread showing some under the hood pics of my 221:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3483

Yes, there should be a light, mounted on a little removable clip that slides onto the shell. If you don't have the clip or bulb, they are readily available through Lionel parts dealers.

Before you go gung-ho on the body work, I'd suggest you invest your time getting the motor running smoothly, including any rewire work that you may need and/or tuning of the E-unit. We can coach you through the key steps, if you need it. When you can post close-up pics of the motor, wiring, etc. You can use Radio Shack wire if you don't want to be a purist, or you can use reproduction cloth-covered Lionel wire if you want to be more faithful. I've been using the latter on my recent work.

I get mixed up between my recollections of drive rods on the 221 and on my 1668. I think (???) on the 221, all of the rods are removable via the small hex-head screws. On the 1668, the smaller valve gear bar is rivetted to the shell.

I'll try to check my 221 tomorrow to take a closer look at the drive rod attachment sequence. Now that I'm thinking about it, it may be that the connecting rod (attached to the steam chest) is not easily removed. If that's the case, I suggest you leave it, and tape it off carefully for paint work.

If you're considering a repaint, I would urge you to do a full strip to bare metal first, then prime and repaint. Start clean. You'll end up with a much smoother finish.

Your drive rod metal parts should clean up reasonably well with a Dremel wire brush and perhaps a quick soak (a few minutes, tops) in a diluted bath of muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid).

Did I give you the links to the 221 manual and parts info? Here:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/221.htm

Have fun!

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

TJ,

Thanks for the reply. I don't have a track setup or a working transformer at the moment to test the train unit. Is it possible to bench test these with a power supply?

I just took a look at the drive rods and it seems one is mounted/riveted through the body and would be difficult to remove and reinstall properly. I have to think about this since there's a decent amount of rust buildup on it and it hangs up where it rubs on the train body. 

I will dig out my light box tomorrow and take some better pictures, I just rushed to take these so I apologize for the bad quality. 

I think you did give me the link before to the 221 manual, I just downloaded it and printed it out. I just found the lamp holder on Olsen's site so I will add that to the list of parts I need.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Drive rod parts can be cleaned up reasonably well with a Dremel wire brush.

Keep that forward drive rod track attached for repaint work ... just tape off carefully.

Yes, you can run power to the motor (removed from the shell) to test. One power lead to the center pickups (between the wheels), and one power lead to the outer wheels or any bare-metal spot on the motor frame (it's "ground"). However ...

If the e-unit is in it's "neutral" position, the motor won't get power. So you'll need to cycle the e-unit (via power on/off) to rotate its drum to either forward or reverse setting. However ... it may be that the e-unit isn't functioning ... often, the tiny little "fingers" that ride on the drum get gunked up or bend away from the drum. Or, sometimes the e-unit soleniod (plunger) gets stuck. If either is the case, you'll have to fix the e-unit first, then get the motor running. Or ... it is possible to bypass the e-unit and have power run directly to the motor's armature and field. That's your fall-back position for any diagnostics on the motor, if it doesn't show signs of life early on.

We can help with details as needed.

Olsens has lots of parts, but their shipping is expensive. You might also try Jeff Kane at the Train Tender (online). Nice guy. Very helpful. Cheaper shipping.

Plan on a EasyOff oven cleaner bath for paint stripping, if you opt to go that route.

If you remove the "valve gear" linkages (the small ones that are bolted to the "arch" in the shell, above the steam chest), make note of which goes to which side of the loco. Though similar, they are mirror images of each other, and not interchangeable. There's a small protrusion that is meant to simulate an oil reservoir on the metal part, and I thnk that's meant to face up.

In addition to wiring work, the motor will likely need a good cleaning ... brushes, springs, armature, gears, etc. Goo Gone and lots of Q-tips and pipe cleaners.

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The motor test is easy. clip on the frame from the transformer. clip on a brush holder to the other transformer wire. Next facing the eunit on the right is a wire from the motor coil. Clip that to the other brush holder. This way you bypass the e unit and the motor should run when power is applied.
She's a beauty.
Not exactly my first choice for a first time restoration job, hope it works out.


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Well, I've removed the e-unit, and tried to test it with my power supply and it doesn't seem to be functioning at all. Any ideas?

I tried testing the motor but that doesn't seem to be working either. I had the ground clipped to the frame and the positive to one of the brush holders. Is a 12v power supply not enough to test the motor and e-unit?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fel,

Per T-Man's instructions, it sounds to me like you didn't follow through with his direction to connect a jumper wire between the 2nd brush can and the wire going into the field coil.

You need 3 wires to bypass the e-unit, per sketch below ... one to each of the transformer leads, and one jumper:










You might have to manually turn the e-unit drum to it's neutral position, such that the fingers aren't bridging contact against the current flow direction from your jumper wire.

(T-Man ... I hope I have this right. Chime in, if not, please.)

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

TJ, you're right about how I was doing it incorrectly. But, I've noticed the wires were corroded and barely there, one was taped together. Upon inspection they pretty much crumbled in my hands. I've removed the e-unit and started cleaning everything. I will have to re-wire and then test everything.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Now that you have the e-unit physically removed (not wired to armature, field), it should be even easier to use jumpers per drawing above to see if you can get the motor running.

Do you have a multimeter (volts, ohms)? If so, check the resistance across the field coil to see if has continuity.

Also, make sure that the copper armature face and the brushes (inside the little brass cans) are clean before you go too far in debugging. Gears and wheels should turn freely ... clean and lube as needed.

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

I have to get my multimeter from my mom's place tomorrow. I have all of my tools in storage there. No space for that stuff at my apartment.  

I've started to clean the armature and brushes also. The gears and wheels turn freely so I know nothing is hung up.

Regarding paint, do you know if there is a specific type that matches the original? I have some easy off and plan to strip the body tomorrow.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Can he test it with a 12 volt power supply?
Or does he need a transformer?
He said he dosent have one.

The drive rods are riveted on that?
I never worked on one.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

Not the drive rods themselves, but the "T crank thing" (whatever that's called) that slides back and forth on the back of the steam chest ... that's rivetted to the the casting in way of the steam chest.

T-Man might want to chime in here, but I think these old coil-field Lionel motor will run on DC power, though not as efficiently as on AC. Enough to do a motor check, I think. Am I wrong about this?

Fel ... I think any satin black (Krylon, Rustoleum, etc.) should get you pretty close. That said, purists go for exact Lionel color matches. But you won't be too far off with a simple store-bought black satin. (Prime first!)

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The Lionel motors with wound fields and laminated field and armature cores will run just fine on DC. They will be slightly more efficient on DC due to a reduced hysteresis loss in the cores. In most transformers, the core is hotter than the coils due to this hysteresis loss. 

The can motors are DC motors and so will not run on AC. There is a bridge rectifier in the electronics inside the engine that converts the AC from the track to DC for the motor.

Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bruce,

"More efficient" ... interesting.

And 12V DC is roughly equivalent in terms of power transmission to about 18V AC (area under sine wave is approx 70% of peak value), right ???

Always good to have you ring in with your EE depth!

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

TJ,
An AC voltage which measured 18 volts actually has a peak voltage of 25.2 volts (1.4 * 18). The AC meter reads the RMS value of the AC voltage if the voltage is truly a sine wave. Inexpensive meters do not give the correct value for AC voltages that have waveforms that are not sine waves. True RMS reading meters always give the correct voltage regardless of the AC waveform. 

So 12 volts AC will provide the same power to the loco as 12 volts DC.

Bruce Baker


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Cleaning is going pretty well, I will get some updated shots tonight. I am going to try to have the body stripped tonight also. 

I was looking at a transformer to run this setup, and this will only be a small oval around my Christmas tree, so I don't need a ZW transformer. I was looking at the CW-80 and it seems like it would work well and I have found them between $45-$60.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-Train-CW-80-WATT-TRANSFORMER-6-14198-CW80-G-code-/270566312361?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3eff0249a9

Any thoughts on this unit?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It should work out, being relatively new. Here is the manual.

I googled cw-80 problem, some are listed. They all pertain to new engines and MTH protosound. The direction didn't work in one, it may have been the engine and not the transformer.Some people just don't ask the T-man.:dunno:

You can go with a 1033 for the period look and is just as good and cheeper by 30 bucks.


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks T-Man, I will go look those up now.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have bought things at the best prices from Craig's List and at swap meets. IMHO, eBay is still too expensive.

A good cheap transformer is a 1033. They are 90 watt transformers and will run one train. I have bought them for $5 when they needed a power cord. I have bought three KWs for $35 each but in all three cases I had to do some work on them to make them ready to use. KWs are 190 watts and will run two trains and they have a 20 volt and 6 volt accessory tap. 

Some of the CW 80 transformers have had problems and cannot be repaired. That is what I like about the 1033 and KWs. They can always be repaired.

Bruce Baker


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Bruce, those are great deals. I can't match those prices here. Believe me I have looked. All I can think of is that, are these recent deals?? Or did you get them with your paper route money?  So to defend ebay this once, it is only a mailbox away. You are absolutely right about looking at other options, but looking requires patience and time . I prefer saving, patience and time to ebay but sometimes you have to feed the need .:laugh:

PS I like my 1033 it's a great little performer. The best I could find another one was 30 around here.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bruce -- Thanks for the info/clarification about voltages and RMS ... much appreciated!

Fel, etc., re: transformers ... I have a CW-80 running my small layout, including the 221. Works OK ... bought it on ebay about 9 months ago for around $50. That said, I have since seen (and learned more ... thanks T!) about older transformers like the 1033 ... solid, durable stuff. If you can find one, go for it.

Echoing Bruce's point, I did read a while back that the early batches of CW-80's had an internal flaw. Later ones are OK ... do some 'net searching on the subject, and you should find out which serial numbers (or part number or something) identifies the newer, OK units.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Guys, I looked at the 1033 and I found a cheap one.  It will just need a new power cord. It's an easy fix. Thanks for the input.

Right now the body is in an easy-off bath! This is the method I've used to strip anodizing from aluminum. Baking ban, soak the part, and cover with tinfoil. I'll uncover it in a bit and see how it's doing.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I use the Easy Off / baking pan method a lot. However, if you're using a tin-foil (throw away) baking pan ... ONE WORD OF CAUTION!

If left too long, the Easy Off will EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE BOTTOM OF THE BAKING PAN!

You don't want to strip the finish on your stove top in the process.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

I put a couple layers of foil under the pan to be safe, but luckily I've never had it go through the pan. Usually I do this outside, but it's pouring out today.


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

I got most of the paint off today. The easy-off did a pretty good job but the bottom of the pan was almost worn through so I couldn't soak it any longer. I started to wire brush it and it's coming out good so far.

I wound up drilling the rivets from the side rods and will be replacing it with a screw/nut. The one side was just so rusty I couldn't leave it on and work around it. 

After easy-off:










Where I am now:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fel,

Very nice progress! You say "wire brush" ... small one on a Dremel, right ??? I like the stainless steel version (copper colored shank) over the regular steel one. A bit harder and more aggressive, but lasts longer, and OK if your using it on a reasonably hard metal.

How did you remove the smokestack ring and the two little shiny metal "bumps" just forward of the e-unit lever? I thought those were "permanently" attached?

Keep us posted,

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Yes, I've been using my wire wheel for the Dremel. I am using the regular one right now, and I might have to pick up another to finish the job. I'll look into the stainless one. 

The smokestack ring was pressed on from underneath so i bent it back with a small flat head screwdriver and was able to push it through. The other metal pieces were "peened" on the underside so I pushed them out with a small punch and the end of the screwdriver. They will fit back in just fine, luckily I did it without damaging anything. Masking those pieces would have been difficult, so I'm glad I got them out.


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

Wow! Shiney!


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Made some progress!

Got the tender and one pullman stripped. They are both in good shape. I ran out of wire brushes, so I am stuck until I get some more.

I did get to testing the train and it works great after a lot of cleaning. I am still working on the e-unit though. 

The wire(or what's left of it) that goes to the contact sliders needs to be replaced. From what I can tell you have to split the frame to be able to access it. I don't want to have to take the wheels off because that's going to be a pain. Is there a way around it?

Where I am with the stripping now:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fel,

I go through 3 or 4 stainless Dremel brushes when I'm working on a loco or a car. When they start throwing most of their bristles, it's time to replace. Give the stainless ones a shot ... I think you'll be pleased with the results on the tinplate tender, Pullman, etc. The stainless brush will get rid of most (or all) of those rust "spider web veins" on the tinplate. Buy 3 or 4 brushes at a time. (And wear goggles, of course!)

I've had to replace the "hot lead" wire that you're describing on a few locos. Not an easy task, as I describe regarding my 1681 work. On those locos, and on the 221, it is possible to pry off the bottom black-fiber "contact shoe assembly" from within the "cheeks" of the motor -- WITHOUT having to remove the wheels. Tricky, but possible. Read my descriptions below:

My description of how to remove the contact shoe assembly, Post #12 here:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=4788

Post #72 here shows some pics of what that contact shoe assembly looks like, once removed:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3847

As another option, you could leave the wire intact, and try to slip some heat-shrink tubing over its length to give it a "new insulation wrap" ... blow some hot air into the motor to shrink up the covering nicely.

Regards,

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

One other word of wisdom ...

If you do chose to remove the contact shoe assembly to solder on a new pickup wire, keep your solder joint as low as possible. Otherwise, you'll run the risk of having the "bump" of the solder joint hit the motor's field plates upon reassembly, effectively shorting out the motor's elec circuit. (I learned that one the hard way!)

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Try this for the wire going to the pickup: The wire is OK, it's the insulation that is bad. Get all of the old insulation off of the wire and replace it with a piece of shrink tubing or regular spaghetti. I do this on my old engines because I don't think removing the pickup assembly is a good idea. Too many chances for something getting broken. 

Bruce Baker


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Bruce, thanks for the tip. The end of the wire is corroded and green, so I will strip the old insulation and see how the rest of the wire looks.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have had luck replacing the wire by removing the e unit and soldering from that direction, on the backside of the pickup plate. Replacing that pickup insulator is no fun  and it is easier with the drive wheel spread or removed.


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

I could try that too, I have a pencil style soldering iron that could possibly make it down that far. I'm going to inspect the wire first and take it from there.

I primed/painted the train body and it should be dry by tonight. I will post a pic later when I get home from work.


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Engine paint is done, I used what I already had which was Rustoleum rusty metal primer and some semi-gloss black. Turned out pretty good. Flash ruined the picture, still need to get my light box set back up.










I would up finishing the engine with a wire wheel in my drill press. I literally redid the whole engine in a couple minutes. The Dremel works great for the small crevices though.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Gee, I never thought of the drill press. A lot lower rpms.


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Just a small update:

Got all of the pullmans stripped, the engine and tender have been repainted and am just waiting on some parts before I reassemble. I'm also waiting on paint for the pullmans since I could not find a decent match in a regular spray can. 

I wound up picking up a 1033 for $22 to control everything.










I also started working on the track that came with the train. Not sure where the train and track was sitting, but both were fairly rusty when I got them. 

This pic shows a before and after, To clean I just used a fine wire wheel brush in the drill press. Only takes a couple minutes per piece.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Felg, did you use the dremel around the center rail insulators, or didn' the wheel cut into them?

Jim


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

I didn't use the dremel for the track, I used the wire brush in the drill press. I didn't need to use much pressure and went around the insulators.


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Haven't updated much, but finally got the 221 finished. The pullmans are still in primer waiting for paint.

Here's a quick before and after:










After:





























Overall I am pleased with how it turned out considering the shape it was in when I got it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

It looks great!!!
Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fel,

Looks GREAT! Could be a twin to mine. Uhh ... well ... I admit it ... yours looks nicer!

I used Woodland Scenics dry transfer decals to retag my "221" loco numbers. Worked great, in my opinion. Decal part # and results in this thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3483

How did you get all of the drive rods so clean? Dremel brush? Chemical dip? Do tell!

Excellent work,

TJ


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks guys.

TJ, I wrote down that part #, I'll have to order those numbers soon, they look great. 

The drive rods were pretty bad but I just used a 4" wire brush in my drill press and went to town. Some of them did suffer from some light pitting due to the rust, but I wanted to use as many original pieces as I could. But a good cleaning and wire brush got them nice and shiny. For whatever reason, you don't get the brush marks on the drive rods like on the body of the train.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Very nice detailing on the drive wheel rims, too. :thumbsup:


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The engine is die cast zinc and the rods are steel. Zinc is very soft compared to steel.
Bruce Baker


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks Bruce, makes perfect sense now! I never knew what metal the body of the train was made out of.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The wheels are steel (or more correctly, powdered iron that is sintered to make the wheels). On some engines and cars there may be a number of pieces that are die cast zinc. I have a box car that is die cast. It is showing mild zinc disease. 

If the zinc had certain impurities in it when it was cast, it will be susceptible to damage by humidity. The zinc will swell up and crumble. This is particularly true on some prewar locos that used die cast zinc wheels. Fortunately, replacement wheels are available for these locos. The engine bodies like yours very rarely show any problem with zinc disease. But this is why the trains should be stored where it is dry rather than in an attic in Florida. 
Bruce Baker


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

That looks great!! Do you have cars to go with it?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice work, those old trains are looking better than new!


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## Felginator (Oct 20, 2010)

I do, but I haven't sprayed the final color on them yet, they are still in primer.


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