# DCC vs DCS Confusion



## alroz

Hi All,

I have a question regarding DCC. I have an MTH freight set and that I am considering purchasing the Digitrax ZEPX Zephyr Xtra. Is this unit a decoder
so to speak in itself? Or is this is a separate subject matter?
I read articles about decoding your engine Etc. What is occurring here?
Any input would be appreciated.
By the way, this is a down the road consideration since I am new to the hobby however; wanted to be prepared and get us much knowledge on these areas as possible.
Thanks,

AlRoz


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## Brakeman Jake

The Zephyr Extra is Digitraxx's basic DCC system that powers the layout (track current mixed with a digital signal) wich,by the way,is enough for most small layouts.It serves a dual purpose,it supplies the energy to drive the loco and the digital portion controls how the loco behaves (direction,speed,lights and sounds in some dases).

Then,every loco that you want DCC controlled needs an onboard decoder wich reads the digital signal and translates it in whatever movement desired and at the same time can control independent functions like lights,sounds,etc.With DCC,you can have the loco turn its lights on,blow the whistle and sound an idling engine,etc without moving.


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## manchesterjim

alroz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have a question regarding DCC.
> 
> Is this unit a decoder so to speak in itself? Or is this is a separate subject matter?
> 
> AlRoz


Hi and Welcome AlRoz....

Short answer is no...the Zepher is not a decoder. That's something you'll have to purchase separately and install in your loco. Basic decoders are around $25 and you can have them installed by your local Hobby Shop. 

One of the guys here, NIMT, does this kind of thing for a very low cost. When you're ready I recommend giving him a ring.

Jim


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## Bman

I do not have any MTH products so I don't know from experience, this is just hearsay from the LHS but I believe that MTH engines that are equipped with MTH decoders do not like to operate on Digitrax systems (i.e. Zephyr) ???


You stated that you had an MTH freight set, I don't know if that includes an engine equipped with an MTH mobile decoder, but if you like MTH products you may want to look into this. 


Is there something to this or am I all wrong? Any comments from members that are more knowledgeable?


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## NIMT

OK here is what I know...Or think I know!

MTH uses a proprietary system called DCS Note: DCS is Not DCC
You can run a DCS MTH engine on DCC you will just lose some control of some functions...And from what I've seen and read it's nothing to worry about! It's background sound control functions. 
MTH is the only one that uses DCS...I'm not sure the opposite is true that you can run DCC decoder equipped engines on DCS.:thumbsdown:
DCC is used on almost all the other systems manufactured (Digitrax, NCE, MRC, Bachmann, Roco to name a few) and all these systems general work the same and all use the same codes! 
Most all DCC decoders no matter who makes them are compatible with other manufactures DCC controllers and vice versa, sideways compatibility!


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can only run a ProtoSound 3 locomotive on DCC, ProtoSound 2 models are not compatible.

You can not run DCC locomotives of any flavor on a DCS system.


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## alroz

*DCC Confusion*

Thank you all for the great input.
Gunrunnerjohn, my MTh Freight set has Protosound3, so you are saying that
if I stick with MTH, the trains need to be Protosound 3 and the Digitrax should work fine? Will any functions be lost? Also, If I go with say another set on the Digitrax - Lionel, I should still be ok?

Thx,
Alroz


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## Bman

Alroz, hopefully I did not totally confuse you with rerouting your thread a little, I apologize if I did.

I just wanted to clear up a few things about MTH and DCS, hopefully that might have helped you as well. Thanks NIMT and gunnerrunnerjohn :thumbsup:

I'm pretty much a Digitrax guy myself. I have the Zephyr command station and I really love it. I've also bought about a dozen or so digitrax mobile decoders to switch my older engines to DCC.

I haven't been in this for very long so I am learning just as you are!!


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## manchesterjim

Bman said:


> Alroz, hopefully I did not totally confuse you with rerouting your thread a little, I apologize if I did.


I'm sure the MTH/DCS/DCC discussion will likely be helpful as far as follow-on questions he may have, however the answer to his initial question is still....No, the Zepher is not, in itself, a decoder.

Thanks though for bringing up the DCS/DCC thing though.

Jim


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## alroz

Bman,

No problem at all. So can someone just confirm as to my last entry to gunrunerjohn?
I just want to be sure that a MTH Train with Protosound 3 will function with the Digitrax
before I make the investment. I do want to get all the functionality of the engine as installed. If not, any suggestions as to other decoders?
Thanks again all,
This is surly a leaning hobby and I am enjoying it all.

Alroz


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## gunrunnerjohn

Here's the "official" word on MTH PS3 and DCC control.

MTH ProtoSound3 with DCC Controller


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## alroz

Ok that settles that, thank you I appreciate it.
I may still look around for a different DCC system that may get all the 
MTL Protosound 3 funtionality, is this possible, or should I just look for DCS?
It which case running a Lionel may have issues.
Here is a great document that I found that goes back to 2008 from what it seems:

http://www.ulrichmodels.com/prostores/DCC_Topics/MTH_DCS_and_DCC.pdf

Alroz


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## NIMT

alroz, 
What scale are you running?


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## alroz

Nimt,

O scale.
I just got off the phone with an MTH tech about an hour ago. He as well, was very imformative. From what he states, if I go with a DCC system with MTH, you need to know what level of function keys the unit has. Ex: if only up to F15, you will not be able to get from F16 TO F28 on the Protosound 3. If you go with their DCS system and are running a Lionel line Etc, you need some sort of a connector that plugs into the DCC and DCS system. With this, the DCS will operate the Lionel loco.
I think that I will probably go with DCS.
Alroz


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## manchesterjim

alroz said:


> Nimt,
> 
> O scale.
> 
> Alroz


Scale makes a difference in our responses here!


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## gunrunnerjohn

If you go O-gauge, TMCC and DCS will coexist peacefully on the same layout and even the same tracks. I have run both here, a couple of each type of locomotive, they all were happy campers.

If you like, I'll move this to O-scale and rename the thread, since I don't think a DCC system is the right choice for an O-gauge layout. You're very limited as to what you can run in O-gauge on DCC. You really want either TMCC or DCS for O-gauge, they're the dominant control systems, just as DCC is the dominant system for HO or N scales.


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## NIMT

manchesterjim, 
Oh yes it does! That's why I asked!


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## gunrunnerjohn

alroz said:


> If you go with their DCS system and are running a Lionel line Etc, you need some sort of a connector that plugs into the DCC and DCS system. With this, the DCS will operate the Lionel loco.


This is a misleading statement by MTH, which comes as no surprise.

You can run a conventional Lionel locomotive on a dedicated track using one of the two variable channels of the TIU. However, if you have Lionel TMCC or Legacy locomotives, you can't run them in command mode without having a TMCC or Legacy command base connected to the TIU. In addition, you will not get access to any of the neat Legacy features running a Legacy locomotive from the DCS system remote, for that you must have a CAB2 remote and the Legacy command base.

Hope that clears things up a bit.


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## alroz

ok understanding this a lot better everyone.
Sorry for not originally supplying the Guage.

Gunrunnerjohn, what you mentioned abiut TMMC and the TIU sounds like what MTH explained to me. I am going with DCS. You can move this to the O Scale section. I did not realizes the DCC section was just for HO
Learning something everyday here 

Thanks everyone,

Alroz


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## gunrunnerjohn

OK, you're over the fence in the O-scale forum. 

I'm a recent DCS purchaser, having had Legacy/TMCC for some time. So, as soon as I get my system back from MTH (broken) or the other TIU I bought comes in, I can probably answer some questions about the system.


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## Big Mike

alroz said:


> Bman,
> 
> No problem at all. So can someone just confirm as to my last entry to gunrunerjohn?
> I just want to be sure that a MTH Train with Protosound 3 will function with the Digitrax
> before I make the investment. I do want to get all the functionality of the engine as installed. If not, any suggestions as to other decoders?
> Thanks again all,
> This is surly a leaning hobby and I am enjoying it all.
> 
> Alroz


 isn't digitrax a d\c controler, intended for HO ,or d\c trains? 
because as for as I know ,proto -2 ,proto-3 "o" scale-gauge is a\c, and uses the DCS system or just transformer control.correct me if I'm wrong ,but I don't think the digitrax is going to work unless you are going to run your engines in "o" two rail configureation, witch you can do with MTH .....Mike


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## Big Mike

sorry about being so late in this ,I been sick ,and have had computer issures, so if you have a DCS system in place,and every thing is good ,and you wan't to run a TMCC or Legacy loco you can do so with the MTH DCS controler ,but you must buy a cab- 1 base and an innerface cable sold by MTH to connect the two together,if your loco is Legacy ,you will not get all the goody out of it because MTH is only up to TMCC ,not Legacy yet.
but if you have the MTH DCS ,AND the loinel cab-1 or cab-2 ,you can run both the DCS and Lionel's cab -1 or cab-2 together at the same time with no additionel cable needed,and both systems will give you all they have .hope that helped you.............mike


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## alroz

Hi Big Mike,
That is a good question, never thought about that one.
What does DC give you that AC does not? more control etc.
I am not quite sure if the MTH Freight set O scale that I purchased if it is DC.
Cannot find anything in the manual. Got to tell you, I spoke with a guy at Digitrax who seems to be the guy who does their videos etc. He flat out told be he knew nothing about O scale. In any case I have decided on the MTH's DCS. I already have download various areas of it's manual to get a start on the learning process. It seems the wiring may be a little complicated. Thanks for dropping in.

Alroz

Alroz


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## gunrunnerjohn

The wiring for DCS with a large layout can get a bit more involved than TMCC, but it's not that bad. Basically, you want a star power feeder system with home runs to the distant drops.


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## alroz

gunrunnerjohn,

Are you speaking about the terminal block that MTH sells? 50-1014


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## Big Mike

alroz said:


> gunrunnerjohn,
> 
> Are you speaking about the terminal block that MTH sells? 50-1014


 
well, that would be a very good choise, or you could build your own JMO.....mike


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can use the terminal block, but there's nothing magic about it, it's just a bunch of connections all tied together. You can do the same with any sort of terminal block, probably a lot cheaper.


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## alroz

ok will do everyone. I really learned a lot here. I have decided on the DCS.
It is good looking syste. I also woill probably go with their Z-1000 power brick
which I believe is 100 watts. If I do say go to radio shack for this, do I just look for
a 100 watt unit or is there something else I need to know?

Thanks,

Alroz


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## gunrunnerjohn

The Z1000 is fine, but I'd probably look around for a Lionel PowerHouse 180, each channel of the TIU will handle 190 watts. Might as well have the power on tap, you may want to run more than one locomotive on a single power district.


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## alroz

Cool thanks everyone you all have been a great help and learning center.
I appreciate it. Have a good day 

AlRoz


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## gunrunnerjohn

Let us know how you make out.


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