# Culvert Loader 6-12982



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

I made a mistake and bought this remake of the 342 on ebay. First problem was that it kept dropping the culverts on the side of the car (the roller was not traveling far enough when it released). Found a limit switch on the inside of the rail, removed screws and did test moves with 2-sided tape. Had to move the sw almost to end of rail. I checked this unit against a similar loader (6-37951). This loader had a much longer beam so the limit sw placement was easily adjusted--not so on this piece of junk.

Well I was all dumb and happy with my fix, so I cancelled my return on ebay. I then put the loader in a quick layout and tried to run one of my post war engines past it. I don't know who designed this piece thing, but the engine hit the LED sticking out of the building. There is no way to move the track (it sits in a 'well') and that would further add to the incorrect drop problem if I could move it. So captain genius decided to move the LED inward. Another great design issue--it was glued in place. After many hours of trying to carefully dig out the cement (or concrete would be better description), I got it out but broke off one of the leads.

Now for my question. I need to replace the LED, but I don't know if it's a transmitter or a receiver (of light). I did measure the voltage to the leads and it's approx. 4.5 VDC. I also have the 6-37951, and can activate the pickup roller by covering the LED on the outboard (track side) of the loader. This would lead me to believe the LED I need is a light transmitter.

Anyone have any info on what I need to buy or where I might get a parts breakdown.

Ken


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Lionel has the parts listing. The LEDs are at the bottom of the list, with pictures to match them up.

Larry


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Sounds like a bad day at Black Rock!

Don't know if this will help, but infra red LED's are visible with your camcorder or some cameras. So if the LED is visible it's the transmitter, if not its the receiver.


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi Bob & Larry,

Larry you are a genius and a gentleman--I have ordered both parts just to be on the safe side. Late last night I found a parts breakdown on the 12982 and it listed the optical sensor as a 62p-2983-012. Today, when I went to the website you provided, I put in that part number and no luck. However, when I went to your location (for the 37951) it gave a complete parts breakdown. It's just not clear which goes where. The optical sensor is a totally different number and the LED is close to my units' number (6sp2983012). My experience with the 37951 (it was overhead light sensitive) was that I had to place a makeshift hood over the track-side 'sensor' to make the unit work if I had the overhead lights on. This leads me to believe that the optical sensor (receiver) is on the track side for that loader. By the way, I entered the 12982 in the Lionel search and came back with zero. Maybe they realize that design was crap and are not supporting it.

Bob, I will try your suggestion with my camcorder and may be able to sort this mess out.

Thank you both very much for all of your help.

Anything I can do in the future, let me know. Haviing bought too much junk on ebay, I have repaired most everything Lionel has made and may be of help with any problems you may have.

Ken


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suggest you try again. I went to Lionel and entered 12982 in the Replacement Parts search and found this.

(6-12982) #342 CULVERT LOADER - CONVENTIONAL

Try #24 and #25 in the listing.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I purchased the loader when it first came out and had the same problems. With Lionel China production at the time it was hit or miss on quality. I reached a poor conclusion that testing the product when it came off the line was not part of the China manufacturing process. 

I too had to drill new holes and move the switch so the culverts would fall in the right place. I also covered the holes on the ramp on the cars with electrical tape. That way if the culverts didn't land properly they wouldn't get stuck roiling into place on the car.

As for the led, they stick out too far. The side rods of steamers will break them off. The good news is if the led breaks the loader still works it just thinks a car is there all the time. With the matching unloader they set the LED back a few mms to prevent breakage.

Had similar quality problems with the 164 lumber loader reissue. There was too much slack in the chains so logs would fall out on their way up. Obviously not tested at the factory. I sent that one back to Lionel for repair. Should have done the same with the CL.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I just broke the LED and sensor free and recessed them a bit in mine. They clear the cars fine now.


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

John & Al thank you for the help. First John: I swear I put that part no. in the search and came back with "0" (and John, how did you break the building sensor free--I almost had to use dynamite--took 2 hrs to chisel cement). Now rest of story.

I did some more research with a camcorder. Turns out the LED (xmtr) is on the track side on the 12982, but is on the building side on the 37951. Feeling brave (since I had ordered new sensors & LEDs), I attempted to solder a wire onto the broken lead (almost nothing sticking out so I couldn't heat sink it). Well to my surprise, it held and when connected and turned on, everything worked. Now to the problem of remounting the sensor flush. I fashioned a mount out of a 1" dia dowel that I drilled a hole in to push the sensor thru. I then secured the mount & sensor to the inside of the building with 2-sided tape. Carefully wrapped tape around one exposed lead after soldering and put it together (didn't do best job here for free of solder job breaking). Checked it out and it worked perfectly. Later in the day, I finished some other repairs and put the unit in my layout to test all loco's for clearance. After a short while, I smelled smoke. Should have powered down, but wanted to know from where. Of course it was coming from the loader. I took it apart and could not find the damage, but it no longer works. The tape had come off the sensor lead and maybe they touched). I'm trying to decide whether or not to replace the electronics since the sensor/LEDs are coming. What the heck--it's just more money and work for something that was a bad design to start with.

Anyone go that far??

Thanks again for all of your help. This forum is the best thing since sliced bread.

Ken


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mine were not that solidly secured, but mine is the TMCC version. Perhaps they got cheap securing them later in the production.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Or perhaps they repaired so many word got to China to skimp on the glue thus sparing the lives of many dogs.


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

I would guess you are both right. 

And by the way, I did find where the smell was coming from. I removed the motherboard and looked underneath, and lo and behold, one of the copper traces was partially destroyed, and what was left was lifted off the board. I followed where the trace used to go, removed the remainder of the trace and soldered a jumper to the original contacts. Hooked it up (I had disconnected the sensor that may have caused the short), and of course, no lights (or action). So I'll start with a new motherboard (since I can't determine which components died)) as soon as my ego heals.

Thanks again to all of you for your help. I'll let you know if I ever get it working again.

Ken


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi All,

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you. I finally received the circuit board for the 37951 (because they don't carry the PCB for the 12982). I had traced all the wiring from the limit sw's, LED, sensor, lights, etc. on my exisiting 37951. Knowing that the sensor and LED locations are reversed between the 2 units, I made sure to connect the LED and sensor to the proper PCB connectors, but kept the LED on the track side and installed the new sensor in the building. Put is all together and it works. If anyone is interested, I can provide pictures.

Just wanted to follow up and again thank all of you for the help.

Now I would like to open a new thread to get some advice on what material to put on top of my plywood to deaden the train noise. The old layout books suggest using Homosite, but it's not available anymore (at least I can't find any).

Ken


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Some people use foam, but I don't think it makes much of a difference, what kind of track, fasttrack can be noisy!


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi SJM,

I'm just using the original lionel 0-guage track (I guess it's nickel-plated). I must have about several hundred straight/curved pieces and about 22 sets of 022 switch tracks plus several 072 switch tracks. I thought about Gar-Graves, Atlas, etc., but with all the switches I have, it would look weird if I introduced a different style track connecting to the switches. I don't have a layout plan, but my bench work sits in a 14' x 26' upstairs room. I have layed several sheets of plywood in the center (5-1/2' x 18') and then have open frame benches around the perimeter. I was thinking of a yard in the center with a slow rising track around the yard to connect with the perimeter benches that would be elevated from the yard height. That's as far as I have thought it out--even though I have been wanted to do this for the last 25 years. But with work and the loss of my wife--well, that's life.

I did some reading in the forum and it seems most agree with the use of pink foam with some differing opinions about cork for roadbed on top of the foam and lots of differences as how to fasten things down to reduce noise, but allow ease of removal for changes.

Any suggestions or advice from your experiences would be very welcome. I know I will be making lots of mistakes, but I do listen to good advice.

Thanks,

Ken


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Hey Ken, while not an expert , I glued the foam to the plywood. The problem is securing the track. I screwed it to the plywood which probably reduced sound a bit but it would travel from the plywood through the screws, I think anyway. I could gave used thicker foam and another way to secure the track but I wanted solid. I figured if it cant move at all I was good. The biggest part it the layout process is planing it out. Slow is OK. You can also use the foam for different elevations, which is manly why I did it. You can cut out or add sections to elevate track. 

Sorry to here about your loss, maybe you can incorporate something she liked or create something or a place she liked in the layout.


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you for the info and the kind thought.

I'll give the foam a try.

Ken


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I saw a layout where they had insulated the underside of the layout with foam, it made a huge difference in the sound level. Looked like a lot of trouble to do the wiring through the foam, but maybe the results make it worth it.


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks John. I think I will try a small (4 x 8) test section and compare noise levels.


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi Al & SJM,

I bought a few sheets of pink foam at Home Depot. Haven't had a chance to mount and test it yet, but first a couple of questions.

Without thinking, I just bought 1" thick foam--what is the thickness that most of the people are using? And Al, it 'sounded' as though you were suggesting that the insulation go under the plywood--is that correct?

Last question (for today--and maybe I should start a new thread), many suggest putting cork down for the track roadbed. What thickness of cork do most use and where is best place to purchase it?

Ken


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I put mine on top. Grj suggested underneath, im guessing they sandwiched the plywood with foam board. One inch in fine, more then I did all around. I build mountains and.grades with it. Others cut down into the foam for rivers, lakes, depression s , etc. Cork and foam together for me is overkill for sound. They both basically do the same thing. It may be quieter, I dont actually know, but for me wasn't worth the expense. If you like the cork for roadbed thats a different story. Me , I lived without it.


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## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks for the update. I'll play around and see what gives me the best results.


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