# Question About Athearn Passenger Cars



## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

How heavy, relatively, are Athearn (72 foot, I believe) lighted passenger cars? 
For comparison I have some Mantua streamliners from the 60s that have a metal chasis.
Are they as heavy as those or lighter?
Are they similar in weight to Concor? (Which I deem to be too light).
If lighter, is it easy to weight them (meaning is there space inside on the floor)?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Dave

I have four Athearn lighted silver side passenger cars but don't have
the others for comparison. They are plastic construction. If the ones you are asking about are
similar to mine the metal weights act as the support for the original
lights. I kept them in, but replaced the single 12 V bulb with
strip LED lights. The weight is adequate and with the metal
wheels roll easily without derailing. I did cut off the talgo couplers
and installed body mount Kadees though.

Don


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## lovin it (Nov 21, 2012)

What radius' are your curves?


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Thanks DonR.
I just picked up a set of 4 off ebay based on your reply.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I have a set of Con Cors and they are to light. I Also have a set of ATT that are shorties and they needed weight. The Tycos that I have are actually ok but shorter. The Athearn BB cars I have are well weighted as long as the train is not running at excessive speeds. I did add a small amount of weight to help when backing into my yard. If it were not for the backing issue then there would not have been a need to add any weight.


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

They need weight to meet NMRA standards. The amount depends on the car and other factors. I add 1 and 1/2 ounces for Athearn passenger cars. With talgo trunks they will run on 18" radius curves. Talgo trucks do not like to be pushed, so they do not back up well. With body mounted, the min radius increases. Most likely 22-24 in. With long shank couplers, they will run on sharper radius curves. You have to try them to see if the work on your track. Extra weight will help.

Larry


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

As Larry noted,

Talgo (truck mounted) trucks are prone to derail
when pushed. The pressure on the couplers is
transferred to the truck wheels and they derail.
Which is why I moved to body mounted.

I used regular Kadees, #5 and # 148. They afford
a nice close coupled train. I have one less than 22"
radius curve and these cars have no problem going
forward or backward.

Don


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Ron R - I've got a question for you.

I've received the Athearn passenger cars. Nice looking. Put knuckle couplers on them and tested them. Had to clean the axles and lube the wheels. I also have to tweak the wipers for the lights as they were putting a bit to much pressure on the axles. Added a drop of conduct-a-lube to the wipers as well. 

They run pretty well and the lights do the usual flicker thing. However , when I try to cross a switch they tend to derail. I've determined that the cause is that the trucks do not pivot without resistance on the lighted cars. I'm guessing it is caused by tension from the lighting set up.

I figure I can remove the lighting set up and put on metal wheels and run them with out the lights if need be. What type of light setup did you install and how did you do it?


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

Really no reason that the truck should bind with the lighting set up any more than the Non lighting set up. I would try a washer between the trucks and the Chassis. I would also make sure the couplers are the right height. The talgo pockets have a tendency to bow and that will change what you do to set the height.
Good luck,

Larry


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

DavefromMD said:


> Ron R - I've got a question for you.
> 
> 
> 
> I figure I can remove the lighting set up and put on metal wheels and run them with out the lights if need be. What type of light setup did you install and how did you do it?


My Athearns are the silver Side cars of the 50s and 60s. I use the strip LEDs
in their ceilings...provides a light similar to the florescents the proto cars
used.

I used 2 different types of wiper that rubs against the back of the wheels.

Type A is a small strip of brass that I had on hand. Lead to car was soldered
on. My wires are 32 gauge stranded very flexible.

Type B actually is a leaf cut from a surplus relay I hand on hand. It has a
gold tip. These also rub on the back of the wheels. Same 32 ga wire.

Note: You must use very flexible wires, else, as you note, the lead can
prevent proper rotation of the trucks. Also, you want to make sure the
wire is loose enuf to avoid tension on the trucks.

Both types are glued to balsa between the side frames.

On one car, tho, I experimented with a similar setup but the wipers rub
on the axles. This reduces friction and the car rolls better but you will have
only 4 wheels on each rail picking up current. Works as well as the 8 wheel
pickups.

I forget whether you are running DC or DCC. Either way, a simple 4 diode
bridge rectifier with a capacitor across it's output will dramatically
reduce the flickering.

I would be suspicious that your trucks are worn.
I had to replace the wheels that came on my used Athearns with some
from Intermountain. Kadees work just as well. Those now run fine forward or back with no derailing. I did have to replace the trucks on one car. I found the bearing holes had worn
oversize and allowed too much vertical movement of the wheels.

I use Peco turnouts. I just do not have turnout derailing. If you have Atlas you
may want to check rail alignment horiz. and vert. where the points join the rail
Sometimes the pivot rivet is loose and results in derailing also.

When I have a derailing car I have a loco move it extremely slow over
the derail point. You get down as close as possible and with a good
flashlight watch the wheel action. You can actually see the exact point
where the wheel comes off the rail and that usually shows you what is
causing it. In most of my situations a slight vertical misalignment was
the culprit. Most often solved by shoving a loose track tie under the ties where
you find a low point.

Hope this helps you get those Athearns moving smoothly and all
lit up.

Don


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

So how does an axle wiper work with metal wheels? How do you prevent a short? I can see how it works with the stock setup as there is only one brrass wheel and the other is plactic.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Dave

On MOST metal wheel sets the axle is also metal. One wheel is
hard to it. The other wheel has a tiny plastic insulator isolating
it from the axle. On one truck you install the wheel sets with
the insulated wheels on Rail A. The wiper on the axle picks up
current from Rail B. The other truck is reverse of this. The insulated
wheels go on Rail B so the wiper on the axle will pick up
current from rail A, thus completing the circuit. You have pickup
from 2 wheels for each rail. This helps cut down friction since
the wiper is rubbing against the much smaller diameter axle.

Note: It is important that the trucks themselves are plastic. Metal
trucks would have to be treated differently. Oddly, one of my
Athearn cars had metal trucks that I had to replace. They are
readily available from Athearn dealers on Amazon. A pair for
around 10.00, as I recall.

Don


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Thanks DonR. You've provided a wealth of info.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Well, I got em rolling. I fixed the problem with the trucks not turning freely side to side and acting like they were spring loaded. The cause was what I suspected - the brass strip inside the car for the lights. It is a brass strip roughly 'C' shaped with one end attached to the screw holding the truck on and the other attacthed to a metal plate that holds the light bulb. Upon examination, when the truck would turn, the brass strip would twist thus creating the spring like action. The solution was simple - back off the screw by 1/4 turn. This freed up the truck and did not make it too loose.

They run fine and stay on at any speed. They are able to take switch turns at half throttle consistantly. Anything more than that and they derail periodlically when crossing between tracks. This is OK because half throttle is about 50 scale MPH and I don't cross between tracks very often.

I have to get an underset shank coupler to put on my Walters Amtrak FP40 to raise the level of the knuckle. I didn't need this with my Mantua passengers cars as the trucks are metal and I was able to bend the tongue down slightly to marry up to the coupler on the Walters locomotive. The trucks on the Atherans are plastic and I cannot bend them down. I tried shimming the coupler in the locomotive but then it would bind and not pivot side to side smoothly and lead to uncoupling going around a bend.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Or Dave,

You could go to body mounted couplers that you
can shim or shave to correct height.

Don


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Not quite ready for that, but I am looking at replacing the wheels. I have some Proto 2000 wheel sets that I used on some Athearn freight cars but they have plastic or at least some type of flexible axle that isn't metal. What wheel sets did you use with metal axles?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I am using both Intermountain and Kadee wheels. Both
are very good...36" wheels are
what goes on those Passenger cars.

Don


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

The transformation is complete. I replaced the wheels with all metal wheels. I had to go with Reboxx because they have a metal axle and an insulated wheel. Kadees and Intermountain do not have metal axles I was told by what seemed like a knowledgeable sales person at MB Klein. I had to get a Kadee underset shank coupler to put on my Walters FP40 so it would align with the couplers on the cars. All is well. No uncoupling. Ran for extended period at high speed to test. 

I couldn't get the Athearn bullet shaped bulbs so I jury rigged some other bulbs and they work fine. With the new metal wheels, the lights don't flicker. The only remaining touch I may do is add white paper over the windows to diffuse the light.

With the metal wheels they now take the switches at full throttle, not that I will ever do that when running them.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Let there be light, Dave.

Good going.

Both Kadee and Intermountain wheel sets that I
have do use metal axles. Maybe there are
models that do not.

Don


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

I saw the Intermountains and the axles were black and the package seemed to indicate the axle was plastic or some bendable material. I did not see the Kadees as they were back in the wearhouse and I didn't want to have them fetch a set just for me to see. I could see the Reboxx were metal. They came in different axle lengths so I compared what I had to several (although they are each only .01 apart) and lo and behold on the back it said fo use with Athearn Talgo trucks.

Some times this stuff gets too complicated.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

DavefromMD said:


> Some times this stuff gets too complicated.


Truer words were never spoken.

Don


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