# 11' x 13' Freelanced CSX - HO



## sstlaure

So this is my first layout, but I always get a bit carried away when I'm doing DIY projects. Originally this was to be much smaller (and less expensive), but oh well.

It's basically 11' x 13' with a twice around arrangement with a return loop at the top and bottom and a wye in the middle. I made it to accommodate 12 car trains and the max grade is a little over 2%.

The pics posted are a bit old (April) and I've made a fair bit of progress since then, I just need to take some new pics.

This all started with me 30+ years ago with a Cox Army train (which I still have). My dad has been collecting RR stuff forever and is involved in the Lansing Model RR Club (LMRC)

I probably won't totally finish this layout (does anyone), but the plan is to build it until I decide to change houses, then one of the rooms in the new house will become a permanent layout room (I'm hoping for a bonus room over the garage for a nice big layout space.)

Have picked up some decent rolling stock - P2K GP38, P1K GP15 and I'm waiting on an Athearn Genesis SD60M w/DCC & Sound (should be delivered today or tomorrow.) Layout is DC right now, but I'm pulling together everything I need to update to DCC this winter. I'll be adding a helix off of the top return loop to bring trains back down to bottom level without coming back downgrade and I plan on adding a few staging tracks to allow trains to enter and leave the scene.

How do I get the pics to post directly in the thread (instead of a link)?


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## tankist

this is one big project :thumbsup:. wish i had your space. 

after attached, to embed pictures into te post you can place their URL into tags.
or simply click on Image icon an place the URL into the message box.



[IMG]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4655&d=1286907405


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## sstlaure

Thanks....had the wife let me, I would have taken over the entire basement. The layout table separates into 4 pieces, each small enough to go up the basement stairway (in theory.) 

Benchwork was mostly 1x4, with 1x1 legs. A total of (5) legs were used and I cantilevered the layout over the legs. It's strong enough that my 260 lb father sat in the middle when we were wiring it up.


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## TapRoot

dude, this is epic! pulling up a chair and patiently waiting for the next update!

ConGrats on going big, even tho you say you could have gone bigger.

I would love to rock out my whole basement, makes me want to pawn off the weight equipment now haha.


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## deboardfam

Wow great looking layout. Definately loving the long sweeping curves and the height differences. (total newb here, sorry for the terminology)


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## imatt88

I LIKE IT!:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

I like it, too. Very three-dimensional ... not you're typical "flatland" layout.

Glad the kids are onboard, helping to manage the show!

TJ


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## Bman

sstlaure, I think your layout is looking great, I really like that Reid Milling building. Good to see another Michigander here on the forum, there are a few others as well. I to am from SE Michigan.:thumbsup:


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## sstlaure

Bman said:


> sstlaure, I think your layout is looking great, I really like that Reid Milling building. Good to see another Michigander here on the forum, there are a few others as well. I to am from SE Michigan.:thumbsup:


My father built that one (Red Wing Milling background kit) it came with a front and a back, so he made the building longer by using both. The seam between the fronts is reinforced with styrene strip. He modified the decal to read Reid Milling for my oldest son. He's also working on an Evan Mfg for my youngest out of modular building parts.

I think he uses Floquil paints in his airbrush. I've been using rattle cans so far as I didn't feel like doing the clean-up associated with the airbrush. I'm going to have to break down soon though as there are colors I want to use that aren't readily available in cans. He does nice work. 

I'm in Brownstown....how about you?


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## sstlaure

Here are some pics from last night....I'll have a few more a little later (my wife is emailing them from home)....got the image posting thing figured out.....

Walthers Cornerstone Glacier Gravel (not yet painted/weathered)
Walthers Cornerstone Cement Coaling Tower (not yet weathered)
Walthers Cornerstone Diesel Fueling Facility (painted/weathered, but not installed)


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## sstlaure

Some more pics.....My 3 year old likes the Thomas trains - we have an assortment of those to run on here as well. Percy dropping his ashes after a hard day at work.

Walther's Cornerstone Cinder/Ash pit
Atlas Roundhouse and Turntable (powered)
Rix Overpass kit (2 sections - 12" long total)


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## sstlaure

And then a few more.....whew!


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## Bman

sstlaure said:


> My father built that one (Red Wing Milling background kit) it came with a front and a back, so he made the building longer by using both. The seam between the fronts is reinforced with styrene strip. He modified the decal to read Reid Milling for my oldest son. He's also working on an Evan Mfg for my youngest out of modular building parts.
> 
> I think he uses Floquil paints in his airbrush. I've been using rattle cans so far as I didn't feel like doing the clean-up associated with the airbrush. I'm going to have to break down soon though as there are colors I want to use that aren't readily available in cans. He does nice work.
> 
> I'm in Brownstown....how about you?


Ahh I guess that would be downriver. I am from the north side, Richmond, it's a fairly small town.


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## sstlaure

Bman said:


> Ahh I guess that would be downriver. I am from the north side, Richmond, it's a fairly small town.


Downriver is correct...you've got all the good shops up by you. There isn't anything Downriver. Closest is Nankin in Westland.

Looking at these pics - I need to improve the lighting on my layout. I think I'm going to add some florescent fixtures above the table.


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## sstlaure

Added 3-80W florescent fixtures above the layout - MAN what a difference. When I turn them off I can hardly believe I was working in an area so dimly lit. Camera is doing funny things - I'll post up pics when I can.

Finishing up a couple of Atlas water tower kits. Built the first one wrong (some almost symmetrical pieces put in upside down.) but I was able to salvage it. I've got them both built and painted, just adding the weathering/finishing touches before putting the dull-cote on them


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## tjcruiser

SST,

As I look at your layout's substructure, one thing jumps out at me that I really like: you've put your leg supports inset significantly from the edge of the table, with the "deck" cantilevered out from there. I really think that'll make walking around the table (and sitting near the table) much more comfortable that a traditional edge-leg setup. Normally, I'd caution someone about too much cantilever, but your leg cross braces and deck framework appears to be quite sturdy.

I like it ... nice job!

TJ


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## sstlaure

Thanks TJ....I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, so I understand triangulation and bracing, etc. I used a book (I believe "How to design/build model railroad benchwork" - i want to say it's a Lynn Wescott book) for the basics. It had recommendations of lumber size and maximum unsupported span. I could get the exact title if anyone is interested. I was able to stay well within the recommendations in the book.

I was very surprised at how sturdy the 1x4 framework is. I typically would build something like this from 2x4, but I decided the actual weight of what is going on the table is fairly minimal (compared to the weight of the table) so I figured I'd give it a shot. Saved me a fair bit of money too.

I had to add the 5th middle leg after I got everything together as it wanted to sag in the middle due to the 2' x 4' hole in that part of the table.

Originally I designed this with a second lower deck, but as the cost of the first deck rose....I decided to cut it off with that. The plan is to add an ~5' diameter 2-track helix that would connect the top loop back down to the first level. I'll put the legs on the corners of that one so that I can access the whole inside of the loop. Look for action on that one around x-mas time as I usually have a couple weeks off at the end of the year.


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## sstlaure

Here's one I forgot to post....


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## sstlaure

*Weathering complete*

Here's a few pics of the weathering & models I've finished up lately. I've been using a couple of those Tamiya weathering kits (rust/black/silver & mud/sand/dirt)

2 - Atlas Water Towers - built and weathered
Glacier Gravel Co. - built conveyor and weathered everything
Coaling shed for Walthers concrete coaling tower - weathered shed - tower still to go....


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## sstlaure

Some pics of the new lights, a close-up of the leg structure, a couple overall pics (now with improved lighting....) and my new Athearn Genesis SD60M (Dual Mode DCC/DC w/sound)


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## tjcruiser

SST,

Excellent work, all around. Weathering detail really adds character and life to the industrial buildings.

You might enjoy some pics I posted of the South Shore Model RR Club's free-form layout, with some examples of their construction work. Some similar thinking on your end.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Bman

That layout is pretty impressive...definitely keep us updated on your progress. I like the weathering!! :thumbsup:


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## sstlaure

Here's that Lionel HO Scale sanding/water station and the River City Textiles (now American Hardware Supply) buildings.

I decided to model one of the bays open and I'll install lights inside. I made an office with a door while I was at it. I just used some of the scrap material that came with the kit (they supply the roof from the full-size version of this building, so I cut scraps from there.)



Just got an order in from Walthers

Engine Shop (This is a big sucker 17"x9")
2nd conveyor for the mine
Merchant's row 1
Carr's autoparts
Quality Investment Casting

That ought to keep me busy for awhile.

Edit: Not sure what happened to the pics. My wife is re-sending them to me. They ended up 110x113 pixels and they were saved at 640x480. Wierd.


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## sstlaure

*Pics fixed....enjoy*


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## Bman

I like the steam engine with the coaling tower. All that stuff is going to keep you busy for quite some time. 

As time passes I am growing more and more fond of the steamers, I may even end up with one some day.


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## sstlaure

Yeah....I'm modelling more of a modern era, but being a Mechanical Engineer, I just love the mechanics of the steamers. I REALLY want a DCC 3-truck shay, the sidebar cranks are just awesome. My next layout will have a steep branch line for a shay for sure. I've got a few 40' old-style boxcars that go well with it, but I'd like to get some of the small passenger cars from the older era and make this look like an excursion train. The main problem I have with this one is it's too light and will only pull 4 cars up the ~2% grade mainline (5 if I floor the throttle at the bottom of the hill) It's not a power problem, she spins her wheels the whole way up the hill. I opened it up so add some weights, but there wasn't any room ANYWHERE. I like running slower, more prototypical speeds anyway. I think I need something bigger and heavier like a Mikado.

I tried to group all of the steam stuff together to make it look right for servicing them, but I didn't have room for it to be right outside of the roundhouse, so I added the small spur. 

My plan is steamers in the roundhouse and diesels in the large rail shop I'm building now. (17.5" long x 9" wide x ~9" tall)


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## bakkers2005

hi, your layout looks great, a real credit to you. i look forward to more pics as it progresses. regards bob. p.s are you dcc yet?


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## sstlaure

Thanks.....

No DCC yet - I've got an NCE Procab system but I just haven't gotten around to getting it set-up yet.


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## modeltrainhead

yay for DCC


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## mozzie

Really nice job, thank you very much for sharing your work.


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## mjmueller

Very nice job man......Like your work. I was wondering if you could post some close up pictures of the conveyor. I am having trouble with my N-Scale, the directions don't seem to be the easiest to read & wanted to know if I was building them right. 

In the directions it says to mount the sides of the conveyors to the ribs on the top, but do they go on the outside, top, or side of the ribs.

Thank you.


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## sstlaure

I want to say that the side pieces fit under the top part of the conveyor, with the inside surface of the side pieces nesting against the ribs that are on the bottom side of the conveyor top. These are the best pics I have right now. You can see the conveyor laying on the table behind the water tower in the last 2 pics.

Your best bet is temporarily hold it together with masking take and make sure it's square. If you assemble it wrong it will go to more of a trapezoid cross-section as the bottom piece nests in between the side pieces.


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## mjmueller

Thank you for the reply....I think I did it right. It just seems like not all the ribs on the sides touch the top part. I will have to see what it looks like when I get home, but I thought they would have made it a little nicer. 

If you have a closer photo later, please post, but don't go to to much trouble.

Thanks again.

mj


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## sstlaure

I took my time with trimming and pre-fitting the parts before I glued anything. Once you get a coat of paint on it, you don't really notice minor fit issues. 

I'll try to get a closer pic sometime tonight.


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## CurKid

Nice layout, would it be ok for you to send me your track plans?


Brian


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## sstlaure

It evolved over time....so I really don't have a great plan to send you of what I currently have. Just shot you an email.....(fyi delete your email address from your post unless you like internet spam.)


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## concretepumper

Awesome work you have done!  I love the Mine building with conveyor coming out of it. :thumbsup:


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## sstlaure

Thanks CP. For the first time in months I worked on the layout last night. I'll have to take some updated pics and post them up (added a spur in front of the background buildings.)


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## concretepumper

sstlaure said:


> Thanks CP. For the first time in months I worked on the layout last night. I'll have to take some updated pics and post them up (added a spur in front of the background buildings.)


Yea please do. I am finding seeing progress pics of what other guys are building to be motivating! Makes me want to build. Something to keep steam when the Wife and kids just look at you like you are nuts for spending hours on end!


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## sstlaure

Make sure to get those kids involved....my 4 & 7 year olds LOVE trains. They are typically running the trains around the table while I'm working on it.


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## concretepumper

sstlaure said:


> Make sure to get those kids involved....my 4 & 7 year olds LOVE trains. They are typically running the trains around the table while I'm working on it.


Oh yea, They all 4 like it. The boys 11 and 14 help sometimes but I find they don't have patience for a lot of the tedious things on the RR. They do like to Run it and see how fast it will take the turn after the downhill!  Good thing I don't have any expen$ive trains!


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## leftwithnoexits

i love the layout. wish i had that kind of space for one. all i have right now is a 3x5 n scale i'm in working on.


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## CNW 1518

Thats awesome for a setup..

I just got a Power Cab and its amazing.. so im sure youll enjoy the NCE system


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## sstlaure

Thanks guys....I'd consider selling this benchwork once I start the new layout. Measured it up this weekend while working at the new house - it's looking like around 16 x 19 feet with a helix tucked underneath a staircase. Gotta finish the usual stuff on the house to move in (then sell my current house - 2 house payments sucks) but then I plan on trying to get the finished basement funding approved by the committee. We'll see how it goes.


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## sstlaure

Finally got my camera to download some of the pics I've been taking. These buildings are now all crated up and moved to the new house. In a couple of weeks I'll tear down the layout and get it moved as well.


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## raleets

Don't you just dig the KFC? 
I stuck a couple of 5mm LED's in the back room with just the tips coming out the little service windows. They light up the building just right.
Bob


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## sstlaure

raleets said:


> Don't you just dig the KFC?
> I stuck a couple of 5mm LED's in the back room with just the tips coming out the little service windows. They light up the building just right.
> Bob


That was the first HO scale building I built. Got it last year from my Dad. I'll definitely be lighting up some of these buildings when I get the new layout going.


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## gc53dfgc

Could you please direct one to where they could get such a nice engine shop building as the one you have pictured above?


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## sstlaure

It's the Walthers Railshop kit. I painted it with Rustoleum red primer and painted the window frames with a flat brown paint (Home Depot) and weathered with chalks. If you look at the pic with the 3 similar looking buildings you can see what it looked like when recieved (molded red color) Those are all from the Walthers Cornerstone series.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2970

Wait for it to go on sale. I think I paid $35-40 for it from Walthers when I bought it.

It's a pretty flexible kit - you can have all 3 bays go all the way through the building if you want (or 1 or 2 - it comes with all the parts to make it how you want it.)


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## sstlaure

Well - the teardown for the move has begun. Got half the layout taken apart last night and got the first big piece out of the basement (barely) I had to cut the plaster and remove the second level in order to get it up the stairs and around the corner.

I cut and labelled the buss wires between sections and cut out small lengths of track to create a split in the track/subroadbed. When I built this I used dowels and bolts to align the sections so it shouldn't be too bad to get it back up and running once it's moved.


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## sstlaure

So while my current layout is torn up - I've been busy planning the next one. This sucker will take me into retirement.

Minimum radius 24" but I kept it mostly around 28", I plan on running long trains - the sidings/yard will take trains of ~20 cars. This will be a DCC layout and I've got a Procab system at my Dad's I just need to pick up.

Each square represents 1 foot, the odd shape is due to the layout working around the furnace, water heater and stairwell that are in the basement. The circular thing in the corner is a helix that will move trains from one level to the next. I still need to design the top 3rd level.

Max length x width is 29 ft x 16 ft. Mainline run per level is approximately 140ft - 2 scenic levels and 1 staging level will give me almost 500ft of mainline run not including the track inside the helix. - Almost 8 scale miles :laugh:

My wife thinks I'm out of control - I say "well - I could be out drinking at the bar, instead I'm in the basement playing trains with the kids."



This is the City level - ore dock, float barge, large yard w/diesel & carshops & transfer table, intermodal terminal and a city at the end of the long peninsula on the LHS. Large city passenger terminal on RHS.









This is the staging level with (4) North and (4) Southbound staging tracks. Crossovers put in to allow a train to go through the whole layout, then end up in opposite direction staging for the trip back.










The Top Level (not yet drawn up) will be a mine, grain elevator, logging branch line, small town with roundhouse/turntable and steam engines (tourist line), etc.


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## NIMT

I would say that it's overly ambitious if I had not seen you other layout. Computer control along with your NCE Pro cab I hope!


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## TapRoot

so is the staging level going to be un ballasted and more or less hidden entirely under the other levels?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, my layout ideas suddenly don't appear nearly as ambitious now!


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## nsr_civic

damn! i wish i had that much room to play with!.


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## sstlaure

Staging level will be open along the inside edge for access to the trains, unballasted but on a solid piece of cork. It will be about 10-12" below the Main deck.

Gunrunner - feel free to use my layout ideas to show your wife how reasonable your layout is. 

The plan is for this thing to span many, many years in building and give me an infinite opportunity to build models. My father has an absolutely insane amount of trains, track etc that at some point in my life will trickle down to me so populating this sucker won't be as daunting as it may appear. (He's got more stuff than most of the hobby shops I go to - he's been collecting for over 40 years.)

Computer control would be the absolute coolest - I just don't really know anything about it yet. Plenty of time to learn.


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## concretepumper

Man thats huge SS!  Get busy and be sure to take pics! Some day I will clear out my garage and be able to build big like you are planning! 

And did you say a "3rd level"?  Sweet! And a Helix!  Now were talking! :thumbsup: And all planned ahead! I am taking notes!  :laugh: :laugh:


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## sstlaure

Go big or go home.....I was inspired by this layout - Andy Keeny's Nashville Road. He's one of my father's friends and a member of the Lansing Model RR Club - This thing is in his basement. Over 1000ft of mainline from end to end. At scale speed it takes ~30 minutes for a train to go end to end without stops. 

Mine is scaled down compared to his, but like I suggested to gunrunner - I use his layout to explain to my wife how reasonable my layout plans are. :laugh: He's got 5 separate aisles and 4 completely scenic'd levels, but his is point to point. I set mine up for continuous running.


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## concretepumper

WOW  Now that is something to keep yourself busy! :thumbsup:


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## NIMT

OK, Now I don't feel too bad about wanting 55 feet x 25 feet. I get the opposite reaction from my wife. She says "I think your going to need more room than that, Are you sure you don't want to go bigger". She's also the one that also wants a riding train running around the property too! Folks I picked a winner!


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## sstlaure

Nice NIMT.....all I got out of my wife when I showed her the layout plans was "the look" 


All of us married guys know that look well.


Andy's layout probably covers 100' x 50' at max length/width.


I also want to draw up some plans for an around the walls type layout with a lift bridge configuration. Still not sure how I'm going to go. I'd like a 2-track mainline around the whole layout, but I want to avoid reversing circuits if at all possible.


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## NIMT

2-track mainline is the only way to go! lift bridges require alot of work building and maintaining, But they are nice just take your time setting them up. I prefer a grade or a hidden grade to change levels you should have plenty of room for that.


> but I want to avoid reversing circuits if at all possible.


Do you mean the type that control the track on a loop in DCC? I never have a problem with mine. I have both MRC and Digitrax and once setup I don't even know they are there, it's a completely automatic process.


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## tankist

that is a very interesting plan you had going. the old layout still had plenty of potential IMHO, but then you probably know better then me what limitations you were facing.

good luck!


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## raleets

Scott,
Can't help but to comment on your "wife managment" skills. :thumbsup:
I've used your "out at the bar" line many, many times during my 50+ years of marriage. It has never failed to be the perfect stopper 
I simply tell mine "you know where you can find me" .....it's out in my30'X40' man cave in the back yard :laugh: :laugh:
Have fun,
Bob


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## sstlaure

tankist said:


> that is a very interesting plan you had going. the old layout still had plenty of potential IMHO, but then you probably know better then me what limitations you were facing.
> 
> good luck!


Tank,
That layout was always intended as a learning experience to help me understand likes/dislikes and to get me through until I could build a permanent layout room. 

I've found that I don't like the center island design making it so that I have to crawl under the layout to access the controls, etc. I also want to limit the reach in any area on the layout to <36" so that it's easy to get to anything for derailments/maintenance etc. With the exception of the main yard I'm at <24" and where it's 24-36" it's mostly just a straight-away so I shouldn't have much difficulty with that.

I really want backdrops, etc to frame the scenes and I want more mainline space between towns/industries to let a train leave one place before it starts to enter another. (That and I like LONG trains.)

NIMT,
I'm going with the helix so that trains can access both levels directly from staging. A continuous grade really drives one into point to point or loop to loop operations. I want trains to be able to enter and leave the layout, but don't necessarily want to have to deal with turning them around. I like the walk-in design of this, but it then makes it so that trains go through each "scene" twice (unrealistic compared to a prototype) I really want to strive for operational realism. I've got plenty of time to plan as I'm not going to start finishing the basement until this coming winter at least. I'll get my old layout put back together once I get it moved to the new house to play with in the meantime.

I want to avoid return loops for the same reason - not too many of those in real life (although there are some to access industrial areas, etc.


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## xxxdarioxtremexxx

wuuuuuuuuuua impresionante...


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## sstlaure

xxxdarioxtremexxx said:


> wuuuuuuuuuua impresionante...


Muchas gracias Dario .... Su club de diseño se ve muy bien también.


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## dan

first your original layout was awesome...when you set it up in the new house, and start working on the permanent one, are you going to take that down?


also your dads buddys layout, does have have guided tours for that thing, looks like something you would see on the I love toy trains DVD


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## sstlaure

I plan on leaving the current layout set-up during construction of the new layout. Eventually I'll use the switches, tracks, buildings, etc on the new layout, but seeing as how it's going to take years to build the new one I want to leave the old one set up for the kids to play with.

I know that Andy has operating sessions on his layout (my Dad says that a typical Op session has 25 people working various jobs.) Pretty sure that his layout is on the layout tour of Lansing, MI area layouts that occurs along with The LMRC train show in the fall (I want to say in November)

You can check it out on Youtube as well. Just search Andy Keeney's Nashville Road and you should be able to find a few videos. (I've spotted my Dad in the background  )


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## dan

looks like a cool show, maybe some year we can make the trip up for t.


we are going to a local one here in 2 weeks...hope to find some good buys, and learn from some of the guys there.


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## sstlaure

NIMT said:


> 2-track mainline is the only way to go! lift bridges require alot of work building and maintaining, But they are nice just take your time setting them up.


So here's my reworked main level with the around the walls double-mainline. It allowed me to put a port on the peninsula and incorporate both the ore dock as well as the car barge in one spot. I'll put an intermodal yard and a couple other industries where the ore dock used to be.


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## NIMT

So what are you doing in this section?







Are you leaving it a point to point or is there going to be something else attached here?


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## sstlaure

Upper left corner is the entrance to the now 4 track helix. I haven't drawn it in there yet.


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## NIMT

Awwww... I SEE! Or at least I will see it when you draw it!
Why no connection across there to be able to loop on the same level?
I know everyone's a critic, OK maybe not everyone just me at the moment!:laugh::laugh:


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## sstlaure

NIMT said:


> Awwww... I SEE! Or at least I will see it when you draw it!
> Why no connection across there to be able to loop on the same level?
> I know everyone's a critic, OK maybe not everyone just me at the moment!:laugh::laugh:


That's a good idea. I'll have to look at it to see how I can do it without taking up too much space from the industries. As I'll be building it one level at a time, that would get it running faster as well


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## sstlaure

Here you go NIMT....added a continuous loop on the main level (passes behind the backdrop)

You can see there are a total of 4 tracks in the helix. Lower LH tracks are coming up from staging, Upper RH tracks are going up to the next level then the 2 tracks that are a complete circle in the middle are the tracks returning from the top level all the way back down to staging.

The 3 parallel tracks near the helix are an intermodal yard, the other spurs will access other industries located nearby. As you can see I want to have TONS of switching opportunities and run both crosscountry and local deliveries with plenty of set-outs, pick-ups.


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## NIMT

That Look GREAT!!:thumbsup: I'm all about the expandability and versatility!
I love the peninsula Idea! I've seen one that was set lower than the main level by about 2 inches. Gave a better impression that it was coastal land.
One more Idea then I'll go back in my corner. Your supply lines that feed the peninsula you could come off the main from both ways in a Wye configuration. That would add both multiple input/output direction from the docks and the ability to do directional changes to loco's, and rolling stock.


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## sstlaure

I've got to climb some decent elevation to get on top of that ore dock so there will most likely be a trestle of some kind that would interfere with a wye. I've given it some thought though. I always appreciate input - even when you think you've thought something completely out, there is always room for improvement.

You can see a small switcher engine pocket on the siding that serves the dock. I plan on keeping an 44-ton engine there so that North or Southbound engines can drop-off/pick-up without the need to turn them around. The switcher would do the moves onto the ore dock or out to the barge.

I'm keeping a 24" radius minimum with all of the trackage with this design.


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## NIMT

OK I get it and nice set-up.:thumbsup:
If you want to cut the grade down just drop that section of the table and put in a cliff down to the shore and water.
You could get an even more dramatic look by dropping that section too much and have to climb threw a cut in the cliff to get off the docks up to the mainline. I have seen several overseas docks that are like that!
The GW sugar plant was feed like that in Colorado, Big cut right into the cliff side of a mountain/big Hill.


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## sstlaure

Here's the prototype I'm modelling. I believe the ore dock sits about 10" high, so the plan is to go upgrade to the top of the dock, but downgrade on the other line to the barge to split the height difference.

http://andylphoto.com/trains/trestle/

Most of the big elevation changes, hills/tunnels, etc will be on the upper level. The main level is to be after the trains have come down from the hills and are going throughout the cityscape. 

If you assume up is North and right is East....

The SW cornber will be the real city area - very dense with buildings/streets. Along the South edge is the main yard of Reid City (my oldest son) on the East end is the Passenger station. NW corner is the intermodal yard and NE corner is the dock.

On the upper level will be a mine and large trestle going over a gorge (this will loop around the peninsula. There will be a roundhouse/turntable for a scenic tour line at the NW corner (above the intermodal yard) There will be a small town & farm (maybe in the SE corner - Evansville after my youngest) as well as a large grain elevator. With all this room I'm sure I'll come up with more stuff as well. 

I really would like a narrow gauge spur line to set-up a logging type area serviced by a Shay - real opportunity for some climbing action there with a lumber mill at the bottom of the grade and transfers of finished lumber from the mill to the mainline.

It's all a big wonderland in my head at this point.


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## tjcruiser

SST,

Interesting link / history on that old trestle dock. Link says that the trestles yielded a huge hoard of old-growth timber when it was disassembled and reused for various projects. Neat. I sure would have liked to get my hands on some of that.

Good luck with your build!

TJ


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## Bman

Great stuff, that new layout design is crazy awesome. I have been following this thread but I really had to go back and read it all over again to really get the full impact of everything. Your vision of what's going to be where on the new layout is amazing, throw some of that up the road a few miles my way will yeah!!


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## sstlaure

Thanks Bman....It will take forever to build, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? Hopefully this coming winter I can get the walls up in the basement and at least get the staging level up and running. I realize this will be an expensive endeavor so I'm not going to get impatient and will spread the cost out over time. I will, however, make the new layout DCC from the start.


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## sstlaure

*Haven't posted any updates in awhile*

Well....I haven't posted any updates in awhile mainly because of my move. The layout is currently in a pile leaned into a corner of the basement. The tracks took some damage in the move While the (4) - 5.5'x6.5' modules were small enough to get up the stairwell (180 deg turn halfway up), they had grown too thick due to the upper level so I had to chop off the entire upper level to get them out of the basement. Oh well.




But.....I've recently been building shelving for storage in the basement this last week (2 large shelves 24 feet long and 30" deep). We use large clear plastic totes for everything in the basement and each shelf can handle a stack of 2 of these totes on top of each other (probably 30" spacing between shelves)

I have negotiated one 30"x72" shelf as a train stuff storage area.....Here's where it gets interesting


I've also been working on a 24"x72" diorama.


I talked to the committee and I will now be making a temporary switching layout going from the 30x72 shelf, onto my 24x72 diorama (set at 90 deg from each other in an "L"), then onto my small workbench (maybe 36" wide) and I may put staging tracks out the other side of the bench. 

When all is said and done I should end up with a 6'x12' (or so) switching layout along the wall. I'll use tracks, switches, lumber etc from my old layout and tear it completely apart in prep for the BIG layout. This shouldn't really cost me anything to do and I'll probably have this up and running faster than trying to repair the old layout.

I wanted something that the kids (and myself) could play with, but didn't really want to go back to the 11'x13' in the middle of the room (takes up too much space + I've never liked the duckunder design.)

To keep the 30"x72" shelf usable for storage, I'm going to build a second shelf - framed with 1x4 lumber above the track with about 15" clearance between them. I'll store buildings/works in progress up top and have usable trackage space below.

Here are some pics of the diorama currently. I'll have to get some of the new basement area.

(Oh yeah....apparently my camera did not get stolen....only lost in the move. My wife found it yesterday - hence the update today)

Enjoy the update - more to come!!!


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## tjcruiser

sstlaure said:


> I talked to the committee ...


SST,

Fun stuff. Glad you're beginning to get things set back up after the move.

I especially enjoyed the "talked to the committee" part! 

TJ


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## Gansett

In case you forgot, after 35 years of marriage I've learned that it's much better to beg forgiveness then ask permission.


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## sstlaure

Got the shelves completed and I'm starting to tear down the old layout for pieces. 

I like the switching layout idea, but I still REALLY like operating trains as if they are coming and going.....so

This new layout (#2) will be a point to point. In the middle will be a yard, car repair, engine house. Departing northbound will put you into a city that has a turnaround loop or send you back down to staging. Departing southbound will send you into the country to the grain elevators, mine, etc.

The north end will be 4-5 staging tracks with a turntable at the end (to turn the engines around and provide an escape for an engine pulled to the end of a staging track. This staging will be about 9" below the main level of the layout. I'll have to twist the tracks over itself a couple times (sort of like a helix, but non-symmetrical) and have it come out of staging into the city. 

Arriving trains go into the yard and uncouple the engine for servicing. A switcher will then block the cars for the various industries (some located North, some south of the yard). The switcher will then place the blocked cars into the A/D track for the local. The local picks up the deliveries and sets them out at the industries while picking up the empties to go back to the yard. Empties are classified/blocked and another engine will take the trains headed out of town back down to staging.

I'm aiming for trains in the 8-10 car range for this due to the dead-end nature of the layout. Any longer than that and I'll have nothing but sidings. I want a single mainline into the country out of the yard.

I've been sketching up a few ideas....my wife/kids are gone for the next 2 weeks, so I want to get cracking on this thing and have something running (maybe even DCC) before they return the end of the month. We'll see how that goes.

I'll take some pics of the space I'm working with tonight and will post tomorrow. It will end up being U-shaped with a peninsula about 13'x14', but a walk-in design rather than a duck-under. Can't stand the duckunder from my current layout.


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## sstlaure

This layout is officially dead, but like the Phoenix check the link at in my sig line for the new layout rising from the ashes.....


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## zippy

great layout!looking great wish i had the room to build one that size !


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## sstlaure

Thanks Zippy....if you like this one, check out the new one I'm building.


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## zippy

I deffinatly will have too


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## Willyrail1

Great layout! Looks like it is definatly going to be a show stopper once it is completed. 
good luck on that! 
BP


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## audioquest

Nice layout, I'm just seeking help in a twice around on a 5x9 board to get started.


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## sstlaure

Search the term "folded dogbone" type layout. It's a nice way to get some variety in terrain, bridges, etc on that size table.


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