# Are Some O-Gauge Suppliers Intimidated?



## Guest (Jan 5, 2017)

This thread was prompted by DennyM who posted today a video by Lionel featuring the functions of their new GG1 Vision Line engine. The video had been forwarded to him by a friend. Otherwise my guess is that we on the MTF would not have seen it. *It sure brings up a big question/concern whether some O-Gauge suppliers play favorites when it comes to informing their customers or potential customers of new products or just plain important news about them.* Is it because they advertise on another forum so they are afraid of anything that they believe may weaken their position in the marketplace by supporting through their posts the MTF? Some of our forum members have contacted these suppliers directly about posting to the MTF and their overtures were completely ignored.

Having been in sales for a long time both as a salesman and consultant, my advice to my clients has been to get all of the exposure for your products that you can, so long as it places your firm in a professional light. Seems to me that these folks are passing up a good opportunity to promote their products. 

I had the opportunity to speak with one of these well known suppliers at a recent York Meet. He recognized me and stopped Elizabeth and I in one of the aisles in the Orange Hall. After some pleasantries, I strongly suggested that he join the MTF as it could be very good for his firm. My overture was met, to coin an old expression, like a deer in the headlights. It was if there was terror in his eyes. He made it very clear that if he extended any support for the MTF, it would create instant alienation from another forum. I said to myself, pretty sad state of affairs to have this kind of intimidation. I wished him well and went on my way. Are his feelings/actions typical of others? Sure looks that way to me.

*There have been exceptions that are noteworthy.* Mendard's who is quickly having a significant impact on the O-Gauge hobby apparently has no issues in supporting our MTF members through their posts. So does Andre from River Leaf. They both exemplify courage and good intelligence by supporting us.We as members of the MTF should extend our thanks for their support. 

One thing for sure is the MTF is growing and by this growth are having a more significant impact on our hobby. By ignoring us, suppliers are passing up a good opportunity to increase the exposure of their product and services. 

What do you think? Am I on point here? Are some O-Gauge suppliers intimidated to extend their support of the MTF through posting? It will be interesting to learn your thoughts.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Odd that they wouldn't post new products, sales, etc. here for free were there are also many that would buy products here. Odd also they would feel intimidated to do so, since they are paying for ads which supports the OGR Forum. Without their ads, OGR would possible die off. Why would they be intimidated to come here is strange, they hold the power? 
If I ever felt intimidated, I would not be a supporter of a Forum.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I know we'll probably never find out but I would love to know the percentage of sales here vs OGR with vendors who post on both such as Menards & Riverleaf.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I don't think they are intimidated. They probably view forums like they do industry conventions and exhibits - go only to those you advertise at. With so many toy trains in their life I doubt Lionel or MTH guys go to more than those shows and meets where they have a booth, advertise, etc. Same with forums. They advertise on OGR, and are granted a bit of special status. Makes it easy and enough for them.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Brian, this is a very intriguing phenomenon from a sales/marketing perspective. 

Do these suppliers think that being visible in our forum would hurt their sales? (No, they shouldn't) And is the other forum in any position to restrict visibility of its "sponsors" in other forums? (No) Could the other forum afford to terminate contracts with suppliers if they were visible here and in other forums? (No)

With our forum seemingly growing, I don't get the thinking of some of these suppliers at all. 

However, Lee offers a plausible explanation.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I don't think any of the big three are intimidated by the OGR brass. They are paying to run their ads on OGR and OGR is probably thankful that they are getting the revenue. I did see the Lionel video on OGR and thought it was rather dull and hokey. Would have expected more from Lionel.

Bill


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2017)

One strong point to consider, the individual who sought me out at the York Meet is well known in O-Gauge circles and carries some influence within the hobby. Most of our members know him. When I suggested the MTF, he was emphatic that this would most assuredly create repercussions for him. 

The big three and others may think they don't need us and that's OK, but they are passing up some very nice exposure for zippo. Pretty stupid in my humble opinion. We *ARE* consumers after all.


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## daschnoz (Dec 12, 2016)

I've only been here for a couple of weeks and I have seen (recent) threads about windows falling out and LC diesel locos with failing motors.

Perhaps the fear is that if someone from Lionel (or ANY of the big 3 for that matter) was a regular here they may be bombarded with constant "complaining" by the pissed off customer who just dropped $1,100 on a loco that is dead out of the box. Some people can't handle criticism.

Or maybe perhaps they are simply "too big to care".


As to the issue of "we're on this board and don't want to piss them off by being on this OTHER board" - :stroke:


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## cchancey (Aug 27, 2015)

I could not agree with Brian more! The "O" gauge buyers' market is shrinking. One would think that a manufacturer and those in the retail hobby business would literally jump at the opportunity to broaden their sales exposure to as many "O" gauge hobbyists as possible. Free advertising on the MTF - how can any sensible business owner pass it up? It just defies pure common sense. I would like to believe that all of us sharing on this excellent forum and as customers of the major manufacturers such as Lionel, MTH, Atlas, Sunset Models/GGD, would like to know what is happening at these manufacturers and the products that they are coming out with and announcements of upgrades to Legacy, DCS, etc. As for the retail stores that sell any one or more of the latter brands, their very existence depends upon as much customer exposure as possible to the products they carry and sell.

I left the OGR forum about 2.5 years ago for many of the same reasons that many of you folks have done. I also posted my reasons for leaving on this forum. As an "O" gauge modeler and purchaser, I must admit that not receiving the latest manufacturers' announcements and updates on this forum has upset me as well as missing announcements from retail train stores such as Nassau Hobby, Mr. Muffins Trains, Patrick's, etc. Believe me when I tell you that when I call to make a purchase at any of the retail model train stores, I ask them why they will not advertise on the MTF when it gives them more exposure and it is free. Most of the time I hear either dead silence or am told that for "personal" reasons they chose not to do so.

About 6 months ago I sent an email to Rich Foster at MTH who is their VP of Sales asking him why MTH will only advertise on the OGR forum and not also on the MTF for free and the exposure. As of this date, I have never been given the professional courtesy of a response. Through the end of 2016, my average annual purchases of MTH products was in the $15,000 range. That's a lot of hard earned money. I no longer purchase any MTH products. Both MTH and the retailers I made my purchases at have lost my business for ever. Their are plenty of other trains out there other than MTH.

I personally have been intimidated by several of the OGR management when I literally had done absolutely nothing wrong. I have also been intimidated by one person who is a member of their "inner circle" group. This "inner circle" person plays heavily throughout our hobby on anyone who expresses anything negative about OGR, and him for that matter of fact. This person has also played a major role in convincing a large model train club to sponsor/support OGR. Their open house's are only announced on the OGR forum and OGR sponsor's them.

A lot of very sad politics in our hobby which is supposed to be only for having just plain old fun.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I was also bad-mouthed by OGR folks and it caused some problems with one retailer but he came around to understand who was petty and not and we are now good buddies. I don't have a lot of respect for the advertising and marketing folks at Lionel or MTH. Some of the tech people yes, but the sales and marketing in both companies have always seemed to lack imagination (unlike Menards) and just corporate drones, so I was not surprising how they worked - take the line of less effort and just get to the end. 

OGR is about to go through major changes and it will be interesting to see how this shakes out. I imagine CTT will be inherit the mantle alone and they are good people. 

Overall, though, I manage to hear about new products and all, as I need to, I appreciate not having vendors and manufacturers, particularly when operating in stealth mode as OGR seemed to allow them to do, to spin me their products.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2017)

Carl, what goes around, comes around. There is a lot of uncertainly out there right now and some of these folks who have avoided the MTF for whatever reason may be very happy to be with us in the future. Time will tell. 

Thanks for your meaningful comments.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2017)

Brian, I think it's sad that any manufacturer or supplier would be intimidated by a forum/magazine. I hope that the supplier who flagged you down is the exception and not the rule.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2017)

*I hope that the supplier who flagged you down is the exception and not the rule.*

Unfortunately for these narrow minded folks, there are many that fit into this catagory. Adults who are business people intimidated so easily, very sad. The simple fact is it is indeed their loss. 

Look at all the publicity that Menard's is receiving on our board. Good lesson for anyone smart enough to follow their lead.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

PTC we have indirectly discussed this before. It seems to me to be the question of, What is in it for me vs what can I lose?

As a supplier, is it worth the time and animosity to mess with MTF? Who is MTF?

How do we compare to the other forum - entries, total users, # on line. Right now they show almost 1,000 people on line to our 100+. They have far more topics that are active each day than MTF.

They get to advertise on the other forum and in the magazine, many are asked to present at York (yeah, five or so minutes) but they are in front of a crowd and are with other "select" vendors, their ads are visible to the viewers all the time, etc. there is a value to being a part of the "in" group, especially with the size difference.

What does MTF offer? They do not know, most do not post and are likely to be too busy to do so, why bother?

As we have discussed, we have something to sell that can benefit members and have done it, especially you with the dinner, speakers, clothes, vendor of the week, etc. But we have hardly scratched the surface of what can be done "IF" it is what the members and owners want.

To attract the people that you appear to be talking about, we need to offer them something that they can see and that allows them to be seen. Most don't have a Mark the Menard'sguy whose job it is to do this kind of thing in our format. And what we offer has to have value to them... visibility in the marketplace.

I suspect this could significantly change MTF. Is this what people want?

Tomorrow we are leaving Mexico to come home and I have a list of ideas on my computer that could provide benefits to our members and to suppliers. I will send you an e-mail. 

Bill


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Some sudden thoughts and second thoughts:

:::Looking into the Crystal Ball of Traindiesel:::::

* No one really knows what a vendor or supplier's reasons are on where or how they advertize. Some may not want to explore other internet options, or, they don't feel there are sufficient numbers here to justify the extra effort. A lot of members here still read other forums, so their message is still received by many.

* Some vendors may equate the MTF with MTJ, which has, or had, a rather unsavory reputation as being a mean spirited forum. I don't believe they are intimidated by any forum or company, some may just be happy to have an advertising banner and that's all.

* Be careful what you wish for. Many posts here on MTF have been written that they prefer a forum without the endless ads from vendors clogging up the forum threads. It's nice to just have train talk.

* This forum would change drastically if suppliers and importers were active here. Imagine, knowing they have an importers attention because they participate here, what it'd be like when someone's $1000 locomotive didn't work out of the box? The torches and pitchforks would gather and pile on. It's one thing when you preach to the choir and another when you can preach to the altar. 

* MTF has grown because of the people in it and the ability to civilly have discussions about trains. There are plenty of resources for product information, one of them being right here. Most information from other sources is readily reported on by MTF members. There have been more than a few new listings that I've read about here first.

* Part of the reason OGR has so many advertisers is that their participation helps OGR with an income stream. Perhaps the owners of this forum don't feel the need for that income stream.

* I believe that there will be an influx of advertisers eventually to MTF. Once the word gets out of what a great forum this is, and that they can do it for free, they will come. I just hope all the ads don't overrun the forum.

Some of this or all of this may or may not come true. But whatever happens I hope it's for the best for all forum members. As the song said, _"Don't worry, be happy!"_


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Traindiesel said:


> Some sudden thoughts and second thoughts:
> 
> :::Looking into the Crystal Ball of Traindiesel:::::


Well said Brian.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Traindiesel said:


> ...* Be careful what you wish for. Many posts here on MTF have been written that they prefer a forum without the endless ads from vendors clogging up the forum threads._.._


Good point, but in my case it's the ads around the borders that slow down a page and keep it from loading quickly that bother me.

If there's a vendor ad that's its own thread, then I can choose to read it or ignore it, which I prefer. The border ads can't be ignored so I need to block them.

But in principle I agree with you, ads are a double edge sword.


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## daschnoz (Dec 12, 2016)

I'm active on a couple of firearms boards. From what I'm reading in THIS thread, it sounds like this industry is even more petty than the firearms industry. Sure, we have our "problem children" there too. Dedicated AR and AK forums come to mind - where if you don't worship Eugene Stoner or Mikael Kalashnikov (respectively) you're treated as an outcast. Some are so closed minded that they don't even want to entertain the thought that there are benefits of one design over the other for any given application, but for the most part, they can still be civil. 1911 guys help Glock guys, AK guys help AR guys (and visa-versa) **. 

Many of the manufacturers have their own forums and have factory reps on them - giving owners a direct point of contact to the factory. Upgrades, fixes, replacement parts, etc. are all discussed and no one gets butt hurt if someone asks a question about a different brand. If it's a universal problem (something that ANY firearm may experience) everyone will try to help. If it's something specific to a single brand, often the thread ends with something like "This sounds like something specific to your gun and you should contact {manufacturer}." Sure, there is always some friendly poking (Well, there's your problem - you bought a plastic gun.), but at the end of the day, for the most part, we all get along.

This thread will surely NOT change my plans. I have no loyalty to any specific brand, but it is an interesting window into what goes on in the secluded corners of the office.


**Guys who run Sigs and FALs generally have few problems with their equipment and spend a bunch of time helping everyone else.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2017)

I think that Menard's sets a high standard of participation on the MTF. They make their product announcements, answer and questions from the MTF members and don't disrupt the forum in any way. 

We members have the ability to discuss products from all the O-Gauge suppliers in a professional way without the concern for censoring caused by advertising dollars tied to posts.I don't see any change in our approach because a supplier makes a post about their new products like Menard's. 

But I would not worry about a flood of suppliers following Menard's lead in this matter. This thread was started only to point out what is actually happening in our hobby, not to change the landscape.


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

the advertising and flow is generated by forum members.

Agree with the exposure, but spend the whole day keeping the post alive without traffic is a lot of production time.

AG.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2017)

Andre, though it may be time consuming for you, we are so glad you are here. You are indeed an important part takes makes us so good!!!!

See you in April.


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Andre, though it may be time consuming for you, we are so glad you are here. You are indeed an important part takes makes us so good!!!!
> 
> See you in April.


Thank you Brian!

See you in April!

Andre.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

I have had several discussions with the advertising guy at OGR. Quite simply, since I have products that are only for a small percentage of the train market, it was understood that it would not be affordable for me to advertise, even in the magazine. The costs are quite significant. I still participate,and understand and follow the rules by not advertising my products. I do however post photos when they are relevant to a particular thread, just as anyone else would. My loads have been recommended by satisfied customers on the forum, so word of mouth is still my best way of reaching a greater customer base on a paid advertising forum.
As far as the inner circle and politics, I see enough in the REAL world in the school district I work for, and the community I live in to not give a rats behind about what goes on in a forum. If I happen upon a negative thread or post, I just move on. 
It baffles me why more vendors of manufacturers don't take advantage of this forum, or any others that might lead to potential sales. I am appreciative for the opportunity, and was delighted by Big Ed's encouragement to do more to promote myself here. I'm not one to stand on the street corner, but I am proud of the loads I make, but try to present my self and my work with reserve. 
I enjoy this forum, and hope it stays around for a long time. I have met some interesting folks here both on the forum and in person, as I have also done on several other forums that I participate in. The whole advertising thing comes down to choices i the end, and I respect a persons right to choose whichever means of reaching the prospective customers to his/her business. And yes Lee, it will be interesting to see how things work out under the new management at OGR. One thing I did notice, is the partnership between OGR and one of the Facebook forums. None of this has any influence as to what or where I buy.
Don
Don


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Funny thing, the Facebook forum that OGR joined was with Henning's Trains.


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## kstrains (Sep 19, 2015)

The thread that Lionel posted on OGR with their product video on T1 has already been closed. From what I gather there was negative feedback on the thread to Lionel which may have not been totally appropriate which closed the thread. All the negative feedback was deleted from the thread. I wonder if the experience of all the negativity on OGR has influenced the the big 3 from posting here. Their experience with OGR may make them apprehensive to post on other forums like this one. 

However, they may not realize the MTF is different. The personal attacks and name calling does not exist on this forum from what I have observed. From the time Menards has been posting here, most everything has been positive feedback. There has probably been some constructive feedback about the their product line, but that has probably help them improve. I would think the big 3 would want to be on this forum to at least get some constructive and also postive feedback on their products in order to improve.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Politics is a disease that has no business in this hobby. Unfortunately, it's everywhere and in every aspect of our lives. I will post every bit of information that comes my way. I will never buy directly from any of the manufacturers, but I will always buy at train shows and sometimes a dealer. Also I think that we should watch some of these guys who do reviews on You Tube. They are the best advertisement.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2017)

If you are afraid to listen to constructive comments from your customer base, your future may not be as bright as you think. Sometimes called false security.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

I have made mention on another forum about a manufacturer of O gauge trains that makes items that are not always prototypical.
What I mean is this company makes diesel engines of one style of engine or one style of caboose for all railroads regardless if the actual railroad the item is produced for ever owned one of those models. The response from the company was "these are toy trains and made for enjoyment."

I try to enjoy the hobby without complaining much but when a company makes a one model fits all I get a little upset about it.

Lee Fritz


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

kstrains said:


> "...The personal attacks and name calling does not exist on this forum from what I have observed. ...."
> :appl: And while I hope such an atmosphere continues here, albeit I'm somewhat apprehensive but hopeful that as this forum grows with an influx of folks from OGR joining us that the negativity some of them postulate and hinder does not invade us. That would be most unfortunate for MTF, our haven of positivity./QUOTE]


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> If you are afraid to listen to constructive comments from your customer base, your future may not be as bright as you think. Sometimes called false security.


So true Brian. I saw several posts, mainly OGR, of guys who said they won't buy from a website that doesn't have a direct purchase option, which mine doesn't. Again for the same reason I do not advertise on OGR, cost vs profit, and because I make custom products, it is a must to deal with the customer whether it be via e mail, or by phone, or in person. This relationship is what led to the development of the copper ore loads as well as other loads I was asked to make over the past five years. This is the best way I know of to get the product right, and develop relationships that lead to continued sales, and new products. 
S friend of mine from another forum, (TCA_MG on Yahoo Groups), was one of the driving forces behind many of the loads I have made. He has also been instrumental in assisting several of the train manufacturers in making prototypical engines, including Weaver and Lionel, so the companies do listen, and many times get it right. 
Without constructive criticism, not sure if that's really the right word, maybe guidance, or expert advice are better ways to phrase it, a product may be doomed to failure. Folks who can't take constructive criticism, advice or guidance, are usually the ones who do the most complaining, and are the least knowledgeable. I welcome it, as it is a way to improve both knowledge and the product. Ego and if are the downfall of so many people.
I'm cutting my soap box up for fire wood now, as it's going down into the single digits for a few days!
Don


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Regardless of where we look, building relationships is a key part of getting stuff done. But we need to choose our relationships wisely.

If I were an exec at Lionel, MTH or Atlas-O, I would try to cultivate strong relationships anywhere my products could receive consistently good exposure. Working with one exclusive entity is pretty much a dated practice. Even journalists dabble in multiple broadcast companies these days... such as somebody doing work for both CNN and CBS, as an example. The same thing is true for broadcast TV. Here in the Philadelphia market, I've noticed anchor people appearing on a major network like CBS, then also on a partner network like the CW. Anyway, you get the idea. This type of stuff NEVER would have happened 20 years ago. You worked ONE place and ONLY one place. If you even looked anywhere else, you were persona-non-grata. But times have changed.

Bottom line... in our little corner of the world, the major suppliers need the consumers much more than they need any one EXCLUSIVE advertising channel. So if I ever felt a sense of intimidation coming from one sales channel or another, I'd tell them in a very friendly way to go pound sand. Why? Because those channels in and of themselves have lost all the influence they once had in the industry. Their days are numbered in many ways. True... they still provide a window into the consumer market, but the cost of entry to build that window to consumers is extremely LOW. And the source for all the good content on these forums comes from the greater membership -- not the people hosting the forum. Ever think about that?

Look how many good folks have transitioned from OGR to MTF... or at the very least, keep a foot in both camps for now. So vendors snubbing MTF for fear of alienating the OGR powers-at-be seems somewhat puzzling to me. And at the end of the day, any feeling of alienation should never be perceived in the first place... and is clearly a sign of weakness on the part of the vendor. Relationships should always be win-win, never win-lose.

David


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## Rich883 (Jul 15, 2015)

Brian,

I think Andre hits the nail on the head, Time.

While some may feel some pressure, I think the bigger issue is that it takes someone a bunch of time to do their day job and monitor and participate in on line forums.

Additionally many "community" forums (ones not hosted by a commercial entity) often frown on out right commercial posting by suppliers. As David notes much of the content people come to read comes from very talented participants, not the advertisers. The OGR forum encourages and charges suppliers to do that, and if you don't pay your posts get removed.

For me, I comes to the forums to Learn from others, not to be bombarded with blow outs on yet another run of flat cars.

Respectfully I think you may be reading too much into this.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

phillyreading said:


> I have made mention on another forum about a manufacturer of O gauge trains that makes items that are not always prototypical.
> What I mean is this company makes diesel engines of one style of engine or one style of caboose for all railroads regardless if the actual railroad the item is produced for ever owned one of those models. The response from the company was "these are toy trains and made for enjoyment."
> 
> I try to enjoy the hobby without complaining much but when a company makes a one model fits all I get a little upset about it.
> ...


_ Totally agree Lee.
If they want prototypical buy 2 rail o gauge. The guy who own the Chi-town layout does, Then again he spends about $200 for a passenger car also. I'm more concerned with dependability than prototypical anyway.

Bruce....._


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

*Respectfully I think you may be reading too much into this.*

Rich, I started this thread for informational purposes only. I have had other encounters with O-Gauge suppliers and those that I have talked to in ordfer to promote the MTF were basically, when you filter the baloney out, afraid to post here. Pretty sad that a member has to re-post a video rather than the supplier to take this initiative. And really, how much time is required to make a post, not much.

Does their behavior of ignoring us have much impact on our forum participation, no. We are doing just fine without them. But they are the ones as David suggests that are missing the boat that has sailed out to sea without them.


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## Casey10s (Jan 20, 2011)

I agree that you may be reading too much into this. 

I am on car forums a good bit and you don't see the manufacturers posting on there also. The ones you see posting is the after market people which is the same here. I think the major companies let the forum members doing the posting for them in that it is a hassle with posting, maintaining the posts, and dealing with any bad effects which almost always outweighs the positive. Whatever you have been told is fine. Some of these people don't always have the full story either or won't tell you.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *Respectfully I think you may be reading too much into this.*
> 
> Rich, I started this thread for informational purposes only. I have had other encounters with O-Gauge suppliers and those that I have talked to in ordfer to promote the MTF were basically, when you filter the baloney out, afraid to post here. Pretty sad that a member has to re-post a video rather than the supplier to take this initiative. And really, how much time is required to make a post, not much.
> 
> Does their behavior of ignoring us have much impact on our forum participation, no. We are doing just fine without them. But they are the ones as David suggests that are missing the boat that has sailed out to sea without them.


Very well said. As you said, takes very little time or effort just to post here on new products, sales, etc. to sell their products to more potential buyers that maybe unaware what is available. 
I hope its not fear not to post here, if so, I would like to know why and of what they are truly fearful of. If I'm selling an item or product I would like to reach all available buyers of my item or product. And if fear is the reason, one more why I rather not participate on that Forum. 
Thanks for posting this, until your post, I was unaware that some would be fearful. So much for the "Brotherhood of modeling".


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

I think everyone is right in some point.

As a manufacture I am looking for feedback. In some cases you post a new product and the answers are diffuses or almost non.
Glad here doesn't exist the like bottom, because is the worst.

The intimidation, IMO, is in to post a criticism, to be objective about an issue and not to criticizes because doesn't fit your own needs, but to make the product better and satisfy the majority of the audience. 

I say it again, forums members create the flow then manufactures supply the material. Your feedback is important.

*BTW I want to hear what Bill Webb has in mind*

Andre.


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## Rich883 (Jul 15, 2015)

I certainly agree with Andre, getting useful feedback on new products is critical, and forums such as this are important. In fact I would always much rather hear useful critical feed back rather than six posts saying "another home run" from someone with no intent to buy.

Brian , on the intimidation, I agree disappointing that you have encountered those that feel they can't comment or post due to other forums. I can only tell you my experience when I owned Korber, I didn't feel that way, and the people from the other place didn't every pressure me. 

For me it simply was that my forum participation was never as broad as I wished due to the time it takes. I know, right it only takes a minute. Well not really when you figure you want to post an articulate post, include photos, and then monitor to be able to participate in the conversation. Now put that across several forums (just in O scale), and sending the press release to the trade publications and it takes a bunch of time to do it right for a product launch.

Hopefully people are able to better engage in all the forums with out feelings of pressure, and utilize the power of the community that participates.


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## 4G-Man (Jan 2, 2014)

I do agree with daschnoz, I am also a member of other types of forums, guns being one of the most for me. Although people have their personal favorites, I don't really encounter much brand bashing on them, at least the ones I frequent I don't. 

Maybe I didn't read the details of this good enough, but from what I got out of this is why a couple other companies don't advertise or are active on here especially when it's "free" - I am not sure why I would care that they don't; but that's just me. Those guys have other stuff to do and families, I don't expect them to be involved in every forum. If they were heavily involved in every train forum except this one, maybe - maybe my feeling might be hurt, maybe. But I expect they have plenty to do at work besides be on several forums and I imagine when they get home, they are probably not too interested in logging into a Model Train forum.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Rich, thanks so much for your input. As a former supplier, your comments are greatly appreciated.

You are indeed a class act.

I also want to comment just how civil this discussion has been. Those who have responded should be complimented for posting their opinions on this subject in a very professional manner. This is exactly what separates us from others.


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

Stoshu said:


> _ Totally agree Lee.
> If they want prototypical buy 2 rail o gauge. The guy who own the Chi-town layout does, Then again he spends about $200 for a passenger car also. I'm more concerned with dependability than prototypical anyway.
> 
> Bruce....._


Bruce,

This is my concern about the company I am talking about. A GP-38 diesel was not owned by all RR's up north sometimes they had a GP-39-2 instead of the GP-38 but the company in question apparently finds it too cost prohibitive to make a correct diesel engine for that railroad in question. Also the N5C caboose was not used by all major RR's either, they had other models of cabooses.

Lee Fritz


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