# F3 worm gear lubrication question



## geedub (Nov 16, 2012)

I have a 2343 I am working on - the oil in the worm gear is waxy and thick - Usually never see it like this - does anyone know if there is supposed to be thick gear oil in the worm gear - usually what I see is more like w-d 40 or slightly thicker. 

The train runs slow and I think it is because of the waxy gear oil.

gw


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

geedub said:


> I have a 2343 I am working on - the oil in the worm gear is waxy and thick - Usually never see it like this - does anyone know if there is supposed to be thick gear oil in the worm gear - usually what I see is more like w-d 40 or slightly thicker.
> 
> The train runs slow and I think it is because of the waxy gear oil.
> 
> gw


Howdy!
the old grease used get stick and thick.
clean all the parts using mineral spirit, dry well and re lube using oil for the wheel shaft and lithium grease for worm shaft bearing, worm and worm gear.
check the end of the worm shaft for wear out its suppose to be flat end if you noticed a concave shape that make the edge sharp is sign of heavy wear and maybe worm shaft and bearing need to be replaced.
Andre.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I recommend you use 5W-20/30 motor oil for everything. It never dries out. This is from 60 years of experience with Lionel trains.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Ditto on the motor oil. WD-40 is not a lubricant, it's a water dispersant hence, the WD. It will work good for softening the old grease, the follow that us with either brake cleaner (non-chlorinated) or 91% or better isopropyl alcohol for final cleaning. You will need toothpicks and q-tips to do a proper cleaning. Most greases will harden over time and get sticky and gummy, so should be avoided. As to the motor oil, whether 5w-20/30 either works and does not have to be a premium type, use what's handy as it's last a long time.

Carl


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For really cruddy trucks, I take them off and use carb cleaner to totally remove ALL lubricant, then I re-lube everything. I use motor oil like Bruce recommends, it's working great for me as well. I don't have 60 years experience with it yet, but I'm working on it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I agree with John, that carb cleaner works best for cleaning really dirty stuff. I have also used WD-40 to soften the grease before using the carb cleaner.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I must say some slick answers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Slipped right past you?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Ditto on the motor oil, I have been using it for over 100 years and never had a problem.


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

synthetic oil as preference.
AG.


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## alman (Oct 22, 2012)

big ed said:


> Ditto on the motor oil, I have been using it for over 100 years and never had a problem.



O M G How old are you ? 

I guess you win the Old Curmudgeon Award. :laugh::laugh:

Back then I guess they did not have electricity , they used to run their computers by candlelight.


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

alman said:


> O M G How old are you ?
> 
> I guess you win the Old Curmudgeon Award. :laugh::laugh:
> 
> Back then I guess they did not have electricity , they used to run their computers by candlelight.


I think he is the only person that can say "I use it, million time"
AG.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I talked to a Chemical Engineer who is a model railroader. He suggested that the synthetics might bother some paints.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, I'm a bit leery of synthetic oils, they attack some types of seals as well. Good old petroleum based motor oil, nothing like it.


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## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

I like the non-detergent straight 30wt oil. Even closer to nature.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

alman said:


> O M G How old are you ?
> 
> I guess you win the Old Curmudgeon Award. :laugh::laugh:
> 
> Back then I guess they did not have electricity , they used to run their computers by candlelight.


My Grandfather was Thomas "ED"ison.

Electricity in homes goes way back to the late 1800's, Electricity goes back to before that, Edison did not invent the light bulb  but rather he improved upon a 50-year-old idea. In 1879, using lower current electricity, a small carbonized filament, and an improved vacuum inside the globe, he was able to produce a reliable, long-lasting source of light. The idea of electric lighting was not new, and a number of people had worked on, and even developed forms of electric lighting. But up to that time, nothing had been developed that was remotely practical for home use.

History...you got to love it.


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## AG216 (Sep 28, 2011)

the main idea to use synthetic is that doesn't evaporate or evaporate really slowly, so the lubrication intervals are less than using normal dino oil. the other reason is the stickiness is higher reducing friction a lot.
anyway use whatever you want except 3in1. 
AG.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Motor oil in general doesn't evaporate very fast. Witness that it is your motor and the oil temperature can get above 200F on a hot day, and the oil level doesn't seem to drop nor are there any significant emissions coming out of the crankcase.

Add to the list of DO NOT USE: Lionel Lube, most or all greases, WD-40.


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## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

The one grease I do use on my trains is Labelle plastic compatible #106 grease with PTFE. I use that on gears.


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## StratTone (Oct 4, 2010)

I took the servo advice and just replaced the worm wheels in a F3 NYC 2354 front truck I had and used regular 5w20. Really glad I did. Works really well. Runs nice and smooth. I thought about the synthetic but can see how it could be hard on plactic. You see many people that put synthetic in high miled cars start to have oil leaks. Either because it was thinner to get through crevices? Or my guess is it can eat through certain cruds that were previouly clogging leaks. 

Either way thanks for the advice. I actually thought about using it for wheels and such before I was here but thought it might be silly. Wrong 

Train on!


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## larry g (Oct 8, 2012)

yea- Only need to change synthetic every 10,000 miles vs 3K


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## larry g (Oct 8, 2012)

AG216 said:


> synthetic oil as preference.
> AG.


 yea- only need an oil change every 10k miles with synthetic


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2012)

Boy....you guys must have never experienced the dreaded brass worm gear wear issues on 2333 and 2343 trucks.
Oil on worms? In a non-bath housing?
Parts guys must love that.
Grease is all I would ever use on worms.....and I did, and do, train repairs...still.

Let me share one thing.

Many years ago (oh, I think 1972) I got my first 2343 A-B set.
Horribly hand repainted (brush) in enamel.
Noisy...took it apart, the worm gears had a lot of wear.

I was in the middle of restoring my Dad's old Mossberg .22, and had discovered Gunslick Graphite (anhydrous, paste graphite).
What the heck, they're worn anyway.
Used it.
Ran those engines for 20 years...hard.....here, and at big 3-day shows, hauling LONG trains.....went through a house fire.....shells destroyed....finally got some decent shells.....checked them....wear was exactly the same as it had been when lubed.
Cleaned the water and all the old lube out from the fire, re-lubed, still running today.

When I was doing a re-power on an old H0 Rivarossi 2-8-0 I had bought new in the mid-60's, I called Raul at NWSL when it was still somewhere down in Washington.
He yelled at me.....said it would never work.
Ah, HA!
I told him at the time it had been in there, running, for over 35 years and that it had stopped the wear cold.
He did admit that it must work.

But, oil along on a non-enclosed, sealed gearbox with a worm and worm gear?
Not me.

Dave


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I use lithium grease in my 2333 drive gears.


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