# Help wiring O27 turnouts



## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

I'm new at this. Trying to set up a 4x8 layout for my grandson. I'd like to include two post-war, 027 turnouts. Each one has three terminals on it, I know what each terminal does, I can't find anywhere on the internet how to wire them from a transformer. Or what kind of switch I need to operate them? If anybody would be so kind as to help out an electrically challenged grandpa, I would appreciate it. I have two transformers available, one an old Lionel with two terminals, and one an MTH with two terminals. I know it can't be that complicated, but I'm stuck. Thanks in advance.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

The attached pfd is the Lionel service manual for the post-war #1122 O-27 Switch. It has a wiring diagram in it as excerpted below ...


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

Millstonemike said:


> The attached pfd is the Lionel service manual for the post-war #1122 O-27 Switch. It has a wiring diagram in it as excerpted below ...
> 
> View attachment 556168


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

Thanks, I appreciate you posting this doagram. However, I really don't understand it. I can follow it to a degree, but I need help in layman's terms. It mentions a "controller." What type do I need? Can someone post a link to one I can buy online? Also, do I need 1 controller for each switch, or will one controller operate both switches? I tried searching for YT videos, but couldn't find anything. Do I power the switches independently of the track using a separate transformer, or does 1 transformer run both? My only experience is running one train via one clip attached to one transformer in an oval as a kid. Thanks 😊


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Each switch needs its own controller to flip it one way or the other. The best way to power them is from the fixed voltage terminals on your transformer. These links should help.














Preparing Switches for Constant Voltage


Like your other accessories, Lionel switches (and other brands as well) will operate much more reliably when taken off of track power and fed with a constant voltage accessory supply. We recommend …




lionelllc.wordpress.com





FW


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

Thanks for your reply. 🙂 
I don't think my 2 transformers have fixed voltage terminals. They only have 2 terminals each. Maybe I need something different? I will look at the info and video you posted. Much appreciated.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Beanpole said:


> Thanks for your reply. 🙂
> I don't think my 2 transformers have fixed voltage terminals. They only have 2 terminals each. Maybe I need something different? I will look at the info and video you posted. Much appreciated.


You can use one transformer as train throttle and the other as accessory power (e.g., set to full throttle). You'll have to phase them the transformers (easy for post war transformers unlike the issue in a another current thread on the forum).

What transformers do you have? If we know the two model numbers, we can guide you through connecting them for that approach.


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

Thanks [Firewood and Millstonemike] for your help and offer to walk me thru this! After watching the recommended videos on modifying the the O27 turnouts for constant voltage [and explaining why that's necessary], and the other on "phasing," I feel like I'm starting to move in the right direction. Basically, connect the transformers to each other [black terminal to black terminal, and red to red].

The video didn't mention phasing complications with old vs. new transformers tho. I think that's what I have. One is a newer [MTH] and the other an old Lionel. The terminals are silver and unmarked on the Lionel. I have provided pics of both.

I have to figure out controllers also [the video provided some insights], and would like to make some of those wire leads with clamps on the end to test the turnouts [I bought them used]. 

Thanks so much for your help on this 🙂


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

You can use the two transformers. The MTH Z-500 to power the train and the Lionel 1063 to power the switches constant voltage (and other lights, operating accessories, etc.). It will be a little harder to "phase them" as you'll likely incur the same issue in this *Thread*.

Note: Phasing transformers is nothing more than connecting a wire to their ground terminals together "in Phase". For the Lionel 1063, the "ground" is the "A" terminal. For the Z-500 the common terminal is the black terminal and is connected to the track's outside rail. Those two terminals are also connected to each other with a wire. The 1063 has a non-phased wall plug. It can be inserted either way in the electrical outlet. "Phasing" means inserting in the one direction so that both transformers are output voltage in phase. See the thread linked above.


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## raising4daughters (Jun 21, 2020)

On a small, simple 4X8 O27 layout, if you haven't already embarked on this, I'd recommend against re-wiring the turnouts for fixed voltage. Yes, that's a better way operationally and good recommendation if you want to go to the effort, I know, and it's the reason I've moved away from these turnouts. But, they can operate just fine using track power. Simply connect them in line to the track and let the throttle provide the power through the track to the turnouts. You will need a 3-wire controller for each turnout.


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

I appreciate that feedback [raising4daughters] (I raised 3 myself 😁), and I may end up doing that, but I'd like to tinker a bit and see if I can figure it out. I have this old Marx switch laying around that the previously recommended video said would work as a turnout controller?


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Do you have, or are contemplating, Marx switches? They're wired slightly different than Lionel 1122 switches. The switches themselves operate nicely with a little maintenance. But they don't have a built in self tending features (may not be an issue with your track design and proper wiring). They may also need a pin added to handle Lionel center roller pickups.
Here's a vid of my Marx switches with self tending (non-derailing) feature using external insulated track sections (the Lionel 1122 has the insulated rail feature built-in - see the original diagram). And in the vid, there's my self-designed electronic module to limit coil burn-out from a train parked on the insulated rails. See the 30 and 50 sec marks in the video. You can see the switch in the right foreground automatically move to the correct position for the oncoming train.


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

Thanks Mike, I will take a look at your video. I did see a video on the derailing feature, not sure whether my design will have need for that or not, I'm just trying to figure it out now.


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

Sorry, another question please. Do these black pads on the rail holders indicate that it can only be used as an insulated track? Or can it be used as regular track by inserting steel pins?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That is an insulated section. If you need it, use the plastic pins and the ctc clip on. Yes you can use a steel pin.
So far you have had it easy.
The plastic pins on the 1122 go where the isolated sections are to activate the anti derail feature( it switches to avoid collision), Two pins go somewhere on the two track ends, on two of the outer rails, not the center. If you power the switch from the one track side. short each center rail to an outside rail and see if it switches. That is how to find which rail needs the plastic pin. Without it. the coil will overheat.

Not all switches have that feature . If you have it, the outside rail will be completely isolated from the frame.

I reviewed the thread and Mike shows the diagram exactly where the plastic pins go.


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## Beanpole (Feb 25, 2021)

Thanks TMan, I'm not sure I follow all of that yet, but I'm trying. I'm only going to use one turnout. Here is a pic of the layout that I'm thinking about doing. This is for my grandson to play with by the way.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Beanpole said:


> Thanks Mike, I we'll take a look at your video. I did see a video on the derailing feature, not sure whether my design will have need for that or not, ...


Most all designs will the feature. But it's inherent in the Lionel 1122 switch. Without it, a train coming to a switch from a diverging route, with the switch thrown to the opposite diverging route, will derail.


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