# Is My NCE DCC System Broken?



## Defender97365

Hi Everyone:

I'm building a model railroad here on the Oregon Coast. Am glad to join your group!

I do have a question that is preventing me from getting my railroad up and running. I purchased an NCE 5 amp DCC system. When I set it up it appears to work fine except......I cannot get any current to run from the track leads. The power enters the system but it does not exit it. Neither through the main track leads nor the programming leads. Do I have a defective system or am I missing something?

Defender;
I don't know how much of the following you may have already done, so I'm going to start from square one.
DCC systems should output a constant AC voltage of about 16 volts. Do you have a multimeter? If you don't I strongly recommend you buy one. It doesn't have to be some fancy, expensive model. Harbor Freight www.harborfreight.com sells a meter that is fine for model railroad work for only $5. (see photo)

If you do have a meter ,I suggest you set it for AC volts and put one meter lead on each rail of your track. You should be able to read the 16 volts. If you don't get AC voltage on the track, then I would disconnect the output wires of your DCC system from the track, and try for the 16 volts AC directly from the output wires. If you still have no voltage on the output wires, there is something wrong with the DCC hardware itself. In that case you do indeed have good input power to the NCE system, and bad/no output as you describe.

If the voltage without the track is good, and the voltage with the track connected is zero, you may have a short circuit on the track itself. You can verify that by disconnecting the output wires from the track, setting your multimeter to read ohms of resistance, and again hold one meter lead on each rail. If you get a zero, or very low reading, that confirms that there is a short circuit in the track. If you get a resistance reading of infinity, or very high Megohms, then there is no short in the track.
Another possible test of the track would be to first make sure the DCC system is disconnected from the track, and hook up a DC power pack and place a DC locomotive on your track. Does the DC loco run? If so, the track is OK.

All of the preceding was to check on the basic power. The next step, assuming you can get the 16 volts AC on a piece of track, is to check the DCC programing of the DCC equipped loco. The NCE system should have come with written directions on how to do this. Most new DCC locomotives come from the factory with their digital address set to 03. If your NCE system is sending signals to a different address than what the locomotive is programed for, the loco will not run.
I suggest you re-post your question on the DCC section of this forum. The folks over there know more about DCC than I do, and can probably help you.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan

Thank you TF.

Yes, I have a multimeter and yes it registers 16.5 volts on the power lead going into the system. Checked track, checked wires and checked the track output from the system with the meter. Good power going in, no power going out from the unit. While there may be a track problem I can't tell because the track is receiving no juice. The cab seems to be working fine.

Since I'm a newbie can you tell me how to post to the DCC section?

Thanks again.


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## gregc

can you post a link to the manual for the system you have?


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## TommyB

I'm not sure which NCE system you are using but I recently purchased the NCE Powercab starter set. My first experience with DCC. In order to check out the Powercab, I made a simple programming track. I could not get any power to the track just as you have described. Frustrated, to say the least. What I finally figured out, after actually carefully reading the instructions (ahem), was that the two cords that come with the set to connect the handheld unit to the control unit are not the same. I had been using the coiled cord not realizing that the two are different. The coiled one I think is for a second handheld unit. The flat cord is the one you need to use. After realizing this, I switched the two, and voila', problem solved. I do not know that this is your problem, but sometimes things are really that simple.


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## bewhole

I believe TommyB is correct. I have the starter set NCE you have to use the flat cable the coil is wired different. You have to "Plug" The cable into the left Port (As you are facing it) Red light on and you are ready to go.


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## Lemonhawk

Did you remove the track power from being connected to the DCC system? The the DCC system output read ~16v a/c? If so the DCC system is OK and you probably have a short or open in the track system. Try using the Ohm meter to determine if the track is shorted.


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## Defender97365

Tommy B.

Thank you for your response. I have a starter unit too. The instructions leave much to be desired. I was indeed using the coiled cord. My unit actually was packed with three flat cables. A short one to connect the power to the control center and two long flat cables. The "quick setup" instructions say to use the coiled cord but it's plugged into an intermediate device that doesn't match the one provided to me. I tried both flat cables from cab bus to control station and the problem was not solved. Using my meter I have power coming into the command station. The station gets powered and the cab functions work. But I still get no electricity to the track cables. When I put my meter on the wires exiting the track outlet I get a zero reading. When connected to the track itself I still get a zero reading. It can't be a track short because there is no power going to the track. As far as I can tell the command station is not feeding back the signal to the track leads.


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## Defender97365

As you said TB, this is MOST frustrating.


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## Defender97365

I meant cab to control station.


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## Defender97365

Finally, I'm not in program mode.


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## flyboy2610

Is there a small plug into which the wires are screwed which in turn plugs into the control panel? If so, check that both wires are screwed tightly into the plug. It happened to me, and at least one other person, that one wire was not securely screwed into the plug. That was the cause of no power to the track.


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## Defender97365

Yes, I did. About 50 times.

Thank you for your post.


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## Defender97365

gregc said:


> can you post a link to the manual for the system you have?


GregC:

Finding the manual online is like pulling teeth.

Thank you for your reply.


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## 65446

🌈I own a PowerCab 5-6 years now. I think it's great. Though I've no layout now due to twice relocating Apts., I can only add that the squiggly-stretchy (not flat) wire runs from the bottom jack on the throttle to the small panel (usually mounted on the facia board) which has the 2 jacks in front (for 1 or 2 controllers) and the red pilot light. This panel's rear has the out-to-track wires.. If you add another panel (say 8ft away) the flat wire is used for daisy chaining panels together around the layout for walk-around running. All controllers (PCab and small pilot cabs) the use the squiggly wire from their bottom to the facia panels..
Sorry if all this has already been covered above. But it's too much to read thru them all. Easier to just tell my version. M🚦

PS. To all PCab owners, try to not put too much pressure on the speed wheel..We tend to do this when panicking over some bad thing up ahead because we don't want to unrealistically stop everything abruptly via the red panic button. Pressing down on the wheel too strongly can break the (I think) encoder on its axle. Then we can only use the 4 speed buttons. I did this and NCE sent me a new wheel/axle..
Hopefully they've changed this in the newer issues of the PCab...
Also: if you do ever open and close the casing do not over tighten the screws. Stop when they're just a tad snug.. It's easy to strip the threads (I stripped 3 !)..


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## gregc

Defender97365 said:


> Finding the manual online is like pulling teeth.


is this it: Power Pro?

and is this how you've connected it?


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## TommyB

From my Powercab starter set manual. You should have this information. It's very basic, for sure. Meant only for the purpose of getting up and running...….


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## Defender97365

gregc said:


> is this it: Power Pro?
> 
> and is this how you've connected it?
> View attachment 541045


Yes, that's it.


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## Defender97365

gregc said:


> is this it: Power Pro?
> 
> and is this how you've connected it?
> View attachment 541045


Yes I tried it that way and also using the flat cable from the ProCab directly to the station. I will try again today.


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## Defender97365

TommyB said:


> From my Powercab starter set manual. You should have this information. It's very basic, for sure. Meant only for the purpose of getting up and running...….
> 
> 
> View attachment 541064
> View attachment 541065
> View attachment 541066


TB: My manual shows the diagram outlined in grecc's post.


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## TommyB

I see your are using the Power Pro, and not the PowerCab. A definite step-up from what I have. I'm sure someone here will help you find your answer...[spoken while backing away].


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## Defender97365

Thank you so much Tommy. I really appreciate your trying to help and I feel like a pain in the butt.


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## TommyB

Defender97365 said:


> Thank you so much Tommy. I really appreciate your trying to help and I feel like a pain in the butt.


You will find your answer I am sure, and even though my experience does not apply to you, you never know when there is a shy guy lurking in the background who may find my post to be the answer to his problem. Good luck Defender97365 !


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## gregc

could there be a short? have you checked the track outputs from the command PowerPro with the track disconnected?


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## Defender97365

gregc

Yes I have been checking the track outputs directly getting no current. I'm going to try to configure again as indicated in the diagram. The directions, ahem, don't tell you to wire the programming jacks for the first test. I'm going to wire them and see what happens. Then try to test by switching to program mode. 

As I've indicated in other posts there can't be a track short if I can't verify any power to the tracks. Feel like an idiot.


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## gregc

i wouldn't wire it to anything. I'd pull it out, put it on the bench, 

connect the short rj-12 cable between the CONTROL jack and CABBUS jacks shown in the diagram
connect power to it,
check the STATUS light and
check the output.

if there's a short, protection will shut off power to the track and periodically turn it back on.


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## Defender97365

Status light stays on without a power shut off. Where do you want me to check the output?


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## gregc

> Where do you want me to check the output?


measure power at the track terminal on the Power Pro

a diagram in the manual for the 5A Power Pro shows that there are 2 Status lamps and a Track Lamp
i beieve they should all be steady on, the Track lamp glows yellow (see image below)


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## Defender97365

Boy, you are good. In the photo the program track plug is used in the power track slot. I note that the looped cable is attached to the cab. I wonder if looping the flat cable means anything. According to the manual and my experience the red status light is always on and the yellow track light is supposed to indicate that the track is active. It also notes that the other red light is never supposed to be on. I'll try it in a little while and get back to you.


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## flyboy2610

Defender97365 said:


> I feel like a pain in the butt.





Defender97365 said:


> Feel like an idiot.


You are NOT a pain in the butt, and you are NOT an idiot! And if you say it again I'm gonna come over there and smack ya' one!


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## Defender97365

Ok, I'm not used to this forum thing.


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## Defender97365

greg:

Ran the meter at the track terminal. No current. For the heck of it I ran the meter at the programming terminal and got 1.3 volts.


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## Defender97365

Defender97365 said:


> greg:
> 
> Ran the meter at the track terminal. No current. For the heck of it I ran the meter at the programming terminal and got 1.3 volts.


Oh, and yellow status light as well as left red light both on.


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## Defender97365

Finally, power into the until is approximately 16 volts.


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## Defender97365

I meant unit.


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## gregc

Defender97365 said:


> Oh, and yellow status light as well as left red light both on.


what color is the track lamp? yellow, red or green?
from the manual
_



TRACK LIGHT Indicator light glows yellow to show normal system operation. A red or green glow indicates a problem with the Command Station.

Click to expand...

_


Defender97365 said:


> Finally, power into the until is approximately 16 volts.


AC or DC?
also from the manual
_



Connect your power source to the screw terminals marked POWER. Your power source must have a voltage output within the range of 12-18 volts AC or 18-28 volts DC

Click to expand...

_


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## Defender97365

gregc said:


> what color is the track lamp? yellow, red or green?
> from the manual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AC or DC?
> also from the manual


The track lamp is yellow and the power source is 16V AC.


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## 65446

Yes. Not having run in 6-7 years, I think I was wrong (above) for saying the coiled wire goes from the throttle bottom to the panel instead of the flat wire....


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## Defender97365

Hey thanks TT, still working on it.


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## gregc

i would suggest trying to program something on the programming track which will presumably turn power on to the programming track terminals. This would show that PowerPro is capable of providing power, presumably from the same circuit used to provide power to the track terminals

i'm not sure power will be on continuously, so attach your meter to the programming track terminals and keep an eye on it while going thru the programming sequence


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## Defender97365

I'll give it whirl.


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## Defender97365

I put an engine on my programming track and went through a fake program. By that I mean that I didn't want to actually program the thing until I can run it. So I went through the menu but didn't change anything on the engine. 
The programming terminal idled at .7V until I directed it to the track. Once I started programming it ramped up to 11V. The red status light was blinking during this time. All the commands seemed to work. After I exited the programming I went back to the track terminal and still no power.


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## gregc

> Once I started programming it ramped up to 11V.


so your unit isn't completely dead.

the circuit probably uses mosfets to switch power between track and programming track. Not sure if it's possible to reduce to output to zero, you said you measured 0.7V on the programming track. I would expect something similar on the track terminals

while i find it improbable, 0V on the track terminals suggests a broken connection.

could you try measuring the voltage between each track terminal and each programming track terminal and see if you get anything above 0V. Maybe one track terminal has some power


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## Defender97365

Yes, I will do that. I accidentally did that when trying to measure track terminal voltage. I think I got .1V. I will do that with all four combinations. No, the unit is far from dead. The cab goes through all functions, the status lights indicate it's working fine. I just can't get any current through the track terminals. It's frustrating because I feel so close to operating. All my track is laid, I have my power bus set up and each track bus ready to go. Track short circuits, while not preferred, would be welcome at this point.

Sorry but I don't know what a mosfet is. And please review the title of this thread: Is My NCE DCC BROKEN?

FYI, I am a trial lawyer trying to retire. I love this hobby and it is part of my retirement plan. In fact now that I have to stay home half of the time I have been able to devote some time to this. I won't give up.


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## MichaelE

You keep mentioning current. Are you attempting to measure current or voltage at the track lead? Current must be measured in-line within the circuit, while voltage can be measured at the track connector points.


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## Defender97365

Voltage.


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## mopac

Try calling NCE. They are good about helping. They will run you through some tests.


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## Defender97365

Thanks mopac. I haven't tried that yet. I don't know if anyone is working at NCE due to the stay at home orders. But will try anyway. I'm not an electrical engineer but I think there is some damage inside the unit.


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## gregc

did you happen to drop it?


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## Defender97365

Good guess. No. That would explain my problem.


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## gregc

it seems like there is a break between the circuit that is able to provide power to the programming track terminals and the track terminals. 

one possibility that would be easy to repair is a broken wire, possibly from the unit being dropped, but improbable

the circuit probably isolates power to either the programming or track terminals using MOSFET transistors, possibly the same ones used to switch voltage polarity to implement the DCC signal, as well as providing short circuit isolation. It is more probable that a solder joint is broke on one of those transistors or some other joint between them and the track terminals.

while status lamps indicate various faults, they typically don't indicate a broken circuit; they cannot assume something is on the track drawing current.

a broken solder joint could easily be repaired by reheating the joint.

another possibility, more likely if dropped, is the entire component was jolted off the board. It could be at the bottom of the PowerPro. Is there anything rattling around? It could also be resoldered to the board. (this happened to my son's PC. Ethernet wasn't working and he found the crystal on the bottom of the case).

you could open the unit up and look inside

i'm still curious to hear if there is power between one of the track and one of the programming track terminals, possibly just a volt or so.


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## Defender97365

Hi greg:

I just finished connecting the track feeds to the programming feeds. In each instance I get 1.5V. I'm not sure that means anything. There is no rattling in the box. I can open it up and take a look but I don't think have the skills to make the repairs you suggest. At least I think we are getting closer to the issue. mopac suggested that I place a call to NCE. I will try to do so tomorrow.


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## gregc

measuring voltage on each track terminal suggests continuity, not a break in the circuit. looks like it's not a simple problem. so i agree on calling NCE


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## Defender97365

Thank you for all of your help. I guess the answer to my question is YES.


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## 65446

🚦 WARNING to NCE owners: If you do open the casing and now closing the casing, do not over tighten the screws. The threads strip easily. Your thinking they haven't landed/snugged up yet and continue, you've now stripped the threads..
I stripped 3 this way...Soon as casing is just firm, stop. It ain't Fort Knox !!


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## Defender97365

Hey TT: 

I took a very close look at the casing. No way would I try to open it. Stripped screws waiting to happen. Thanks.


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## 65446

Defender97365 said:


> Hey TT:
> 
> I took a very close look at the casing. No way would I try to open it. Stripped screws waiting to happen. Thanks.


No..It's simple to remove the casing..Nothing falls out or gets damaged..You're only doing it if you or NCE suspect or are replacing a faulty part...


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## Defender97365

gregc said:


> measuring voltage on each track terminal suggests continuity, not a break in the circuit. looks like it's not a simple problem. so i agree on calling NCE


Hi Greg:

I had a nice discussion with NCE today. After they ran me through our tests they agreed with your assessment that there is some sort of broken connection in the box. Turns out the unit was manufactured five years ago! I purchased it new maybe a year ago. They graciously agreed to repair it under warranty since it has never been used. I will update you after I get it back.


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## gregc

thanks for the update. always curious


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## TommyB

Glad to hear you have reached a conclusion. Good of NCE to offer to make repairs under warranty. I wouldn't be surprised if they just send you a brand new unit. Cheers!


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