# PC > PR3Xtra > Zephyr and programming final answer thread(hopefully?!)



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Ok.

I have my PC > PR3 > Zephyr set up to a test track.

I want an answer on how people have their systems set up.

Information is all over the place, not the most clear and there seems to be a 50/50 split on people who have to use boosters with the PR3 and those who do not. Big names weigh in on each side of the question as well.

Everything with JMRI works from the throttle on the oc to using a cell phone as a throttle. I was able to read from a Digitrax decoder in a P2K as well as set the 4 digit address as JMRI pulled up the information automatically.

With a QSI(P2K) and a Genesis 4-8-4 I was unable to read the decoders and got a "error 302 Programmer busy".

I have the PR3 hooked to the PC with the factory USB cable. I keep the PR3 hooked to its power supply which it came with (14v). PR3 to the Zephyr using LocoNet cable. From there I wired the programming and track power leads on the Zephyr to a Double Pole Double Throw Switch(which is wired correctly as everything works).

So what I want to know from folks is this: 

Do you need a booster using your PR3 or not?

How is your setup hooked up?

What voltage is your PR3 power supply?

Do you use the dedicated programming leads on the PR3(I dont want to do this if I do not have to) or do you have it going thru the Zephyr only?

Please give details as I've been spending a lot of time on this question(100% positive others are too) and there is no one true end all source on the net for this in one location.

Thanks


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Generally when you can't read a decoder you need the Soundtrax PTB100 for sound decoders. You need to use the program wires from the PR3 and not the Zephyr to the program track.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Generally speaking is the problem though.

Why is there a 50/50 split of people who need a booster and those who don't? There has to be a logical reason here.

I set it up with the programming wires to the track off the PR3 and now I get 301 no loco detected and 308 no loco acknowledge. So what next?

Why was I able to read a decoder(Digitrax) using the PR3 thru the Zephyr?

Why did I find a help section on digitrax website showing me how to hoook it up with the pr3 going thru the zephyr to program?

DIGITRAX, JUST A WORD OF ADVICE, YOUR INSTRUCTIONS ARE AS CLEAR AS MUD AND YOUR "HELP " SECTION ON YOUR WEBSITE IS NOT MUCH BETTER.

I'm not a newb about this stuff(DCC part yes, but can rewire and injected car harness and make it work) or technologically illiterate either.

Not even the manufacturers have clean concise instructions for this. That's a piss poor way to travel to me.

So I wil go back to the original question, how is your setup set up and what is your pr3 voltage and do u need a booster or not??????????????????????????????????/


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

My command station is connected to the PR3 by loconet only. The PR3 has it's own PS. The program track is wired to A PTB100. The program track wires from the PR3 go to the PTB100. The PTB100 is needed for sound decoders. When using JMRI you set the software for either the command station for the layout or for the PR3 standalone programmer for the programming track.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Again, I did yet more digging.

Should be able to put the PR3 inline with Loconet and program straight thru the Zephyr to the tracks.

Found a one liner in the instructions.....

I'm ordering a booster either way, it's just very very annoying on top of everything else.


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

The PTB100 is only used between the PR3 and the programming track to read and write CVs. You can program through the Zephyr to the main track but cannot read back CVs on the main. You will not be using the program track output wires from the Zephyr with this setup.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

So what is this then?????

Says it installs between Command Station and programming track?

http://s760.photobucket.com/user/Buddman31/media/scan0005.jpg.html

This **** is seriously starting to piss me off...................


----------



## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

3.8TransAM said:


> So what is this then?????
> 
> Says it installs between Command Station and programming track?
> 
> ...


The sound Traxx booster, would go between the PR3, and the programming track.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

ncrc5315 said:


> The sound Traxx booster, would go between the PR3, and the programming track.


God this is beyond annoying at this point. Lot of BS to make a test track set up....

I did find a 18v power supply and I got the same results using the PR3. Trying out QSI or Soundtraxx read I get nothing other than some low hums and squawks from the engine when doing it. Same failed reads and codes.

So booster is ordered and I found a 18.5v 3amp laptop charger I can cut and use for a power supply when it comes in.


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Are you configuring JMRI for a stand alone programmer? The PTB100 doesn't need much for a PS. Sound decoders need more power than the program track outputs supply which is why you can't read cv's.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

JerryH said:


> Are you configuring JMRI for a stand alone programmer? The PTB100 doesn't need much for a PS. Sound decoders need more power than the program track outputs supply which is why you can't read cv's.


I set up JMRI for what I have. Loconet, base starter(Zephyr) and PR3.....

How should it be set up? 

Will I need to put the PR3 into a different mode?

I want one track, no engine swapping to test and program.


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

You can only read CV's from program track outputs, not the main track. You cannot read sound decoder cv's from a program track output without the PTB100. The PR3 is the PC interface for JMRI and can also provide a stand alone program track connections for JMRI. The PTB100 is not used with main track outputs. JMRI can be be configured for either but not both at the same time.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

JerryH said:


> You can only read CV's from program track outputs, not the main track. You cannot read sound decoder cv's from a program track output without the PTB100. The PR3 is the PC interface for JMRI and can also provide a stand alone program track connections for JMRI. The PTB100 is not used with main track outputs. JMRI can be be configured for either but not both at the same time.


Break this down a bit more, least what I leave out since I'm not 100% clear.

I can only read CV's using the program track outputs on the PR3.(what about prog. A and B on Zehyr?)
(why does it require using the PR3 directly and not the PR3 thru the Zephyr?????? this part baffles me??)

I will need the PTB-100 to read sound equipped loco files. I want the read, make changes and write changes option)


Now another question?.?>?>?>>? How do all the people saying you don't need a booster, not need a booster? Or is the booster only affect the actual reading CV's part vs the actual programming????????????????

I gotz a headache.....


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

You can write via the program or main track connections because there is plenty of power. The problem comes from the read which is only available from program track connections which by design have a much reduced power capability to protect the decoders that may have improper installations. Non sound decoders do not require as much power as a sound decoder for a read acknowledgement. It is a dangerous practice to utilize the main track for programming as you have to be careful to use the correct address. Utilizing what you currently have, you cannot read sound decoders. I would think you could use the program outputs on the zephyr with JMRI for non sound decoders and adding a PTB100 on that hook up would work with sound decoders. Most people use the totally separate approach with regards to the main vs program track to avoid accidents.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

JerryH said:


> You can write via the program or main track connections because there is plenty of power. The problem comes from the read which is only available from program track connections which by design have a much reduced power capability to protect the decoders that may have improper installations. Non sound decoders do not require as much power as a sound decoder for a read acknowledgement. It is a dangerous practice to utilize the main track for programming as you have to be careful to use the correct address. Utilizing what you currently have, you cannot read sound decoders. I would think you could use the program outputs on the zephyr with JMRI for non sound decoders and adding a PTB100 on that hook up would work with sound decoders. Most people use the totally separate approach with regards to the main vs program track to avoid accidents.


Ok so I was thinking correctly on what I have.... Was thinking I was going nuts(always debatable).

I have no layout(boy and I belong to Lakeshore Modell RR club) so the 45inch test track is it. Glorified test/run/work track it is and for at a minimum the near future.

Once I get a working set up it will be put on a board or something orderly(wiring mess) and with direction written clearly along with a clearly marked project box housing the DPDT switch.

I've already walked the 6 year old thru everything a few times so far and he does it all with me(looking over his shoulder)


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Side issue on the QSI decoder. That may require QSI hardware and software for programming. Most other brands should work with your setup.


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Lots of confusion because there are a lot of ways to connect things up. I would use a completely isolated track (piece of flex track not connected to the layout) connected to the prog 1 and 2 outputs from the Zephyr. With the PR3 connected via the loconet connector to the Zephyr and USB to the computer then with the JMRI software you should be able to run the trains and use decoder pro to program at least non sound decoders. 

Now, if you want to reprogram a Digitrax sound decoder with a different sound (and program other sound decoders) you have to use the PR3 in program mode. So you would need to disconnect the prog1 and 2 from the Zephyr and connect them to the program outputs on the PR3 (I also disconnect the loconet connector) and you need to plug in the PS14 into the PR3 then using the JMRI software put the PR3 in standalone program mode. You should then be able to use the Digitrax software to change the sound and JMRI to program decoders with the PR3 in standalone program mode. Keep things separated until you get them working.

I used my PR3 to program a SoundTraxx decoder and both the 8 bit and 16 bit Digitrax sound decoders this way and did not need to use any booster.


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

What I have not tried, is to program a loco that has separate motor and sound decoders (2 decoders) and that may be what generates confusion over the need for a booster. Its likely that neither the Zephyr nor the PR3 can power 2 decoders on a programming track.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Slowly working my way through this.

Will update when I get more time. 

Can anyone comment on using a 500mv laptop charger with a 2.5-3a rating work for the TSB100 booster?

Need a power supply and I have it laying here.

Will update later in the week(hate finding threads with no answers so I try and not do it).


----------



## feldon30 (Dec 30, 2012)

3.8TransAM said:


> Can anyone comment on using a 500mv laptop charger with a 2.5-3a rating work for the TSB100 booster?


From the PTB-100 Instruction sheet:

"Minimum input voltage for reliable operation is *12 VAC* or *14 VDC*. The maximum input voltage for the PTB-100 is 18 VAC or 22 VDC. Optionally, you may purchase and use a dedicated power supply rated at 15 volts DC, 500mA."

I am driving mine with a Sony laptop charger 18.5V with 0.6 - 1.1 Amp output.


It's a shame that the NMRA didn't step in when Soundtraxx and QSi decided to up the required voltage and make it part of the standard. Now we have to buy these extra devices just to read/write sound engines. I was up at M.B. Klein in Virginia a couple months back and I talked to a fellow for about an hour and he said Soundtraxx and QSi are pretty much on their way out and the new gold standard is LokSound. After I stopped laughing he said yes they had a bad reputation but they threw away all their old stock and reengineered everything from scratch and their new stuff is a serious competitor, at least for diesel. TCS Wowsound seems to be the new champ for smaller steamers.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Digitrax instructions suck, that needs to be in neon flashing letters....................

God they are horrible.

Anyhow, even after deleting and completely reinstalling Soundloader, I can program the SFX006(16 bit sound), but cannot test the sound. This was using the PR3 set up by itself on its own track.

It only work by using the main button in the screen that only gives u anything to go by if u hover over it, along with the fact that you must "exit" the program for it to work as well.

I was able to get JMRI to work as well, but found no concrete solution to the DH165LO motor decoder and Soundbug combo install for programming ease. So it was a pain in the arse to work with, but I could get somewhere.

As a side note I'm downloaded and installed the John McMaster GP30 files from Digitrax Sound Depot. My test track is 45 inches long, notching didn't seem smooth and it seems to do some odd things at times. Might lost light function at one point or the horn stops working. Seems like its a little off on something.

Lacking any concrete info to go on, I'm not sure if there is something messed up on the download side, or I am having issues with something that is causing this.

Anyone able to comment on this, or have questions to ask me that might point me in the right direction?


----------



## feldon30 (Dec 30, 2012)

Sorry I don't have a solution and can't test the issue you are having. Even though we have a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra as our main command station, we went with the Locobuffer rather than the PR3.

I know some people have had issues with the Digitrax engine decoders vs. some of the other brands. There doesn't seem to be one manufacturer that makes the best of everything.


----------

