# How do I start?



## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Hello all, I am hoping I can get some tips on where I should start. I am looking to get into HO scale train. 

I have some O scale Lionel that I dont do more then run in a small loop. And O scale is just not doing in for me. I had a starter HO set once upon a time and always wanted to do more with it.

What I would like to do is build a 4' x 4' train yard if you will. Something with lots of tracks side by side and tanker and box cars sitting waiting to be moved from one place to another. I want to make the yard and track look as real as possibly I can.

I have not bought anything yet. I dont know where I should start. I dont want a started kit. I find starter kits to be of lower quality then I would like to have. My biggest question is what power supply should I get what type of train to get to work best with it. Is Dcc a power supply or is it just a way to run the trains? And do I need or want it? The one thing I think I know is I want 83 code track from my reading so far. 

I guess that is a good start for now. Iam sure I will have many more questions as I go along. Thank for your time all, and hello again! Jared


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## kursplat (Dec 8, 2010)

hello and welcome. is the 4' x 4' yard _all_ your looking to do? if not, how big is the area you looking to build? a yard without somewhere to go or come from may lose it's apeal after a while. DCC could be described as a power supply system that allows more control over your RR than a simple transformer does.
HERE is a good DCC primer for you.

best thing is just start reading, on these forums, and the million or so other modeling sites. it will answer some questions and raise a few hundred more for you
:laugh:

edit: you might want to think about doing a small switching layout as a first layout. it would give you an idea of what you like and an easy way to start without feeling overwhelmed.

http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/

http://carendt.us/scrapbook/linkindex/index.html


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Well you came to the right place to start with!! There are quite a few here that can help you with your needs.

My input on this is
4x4 does not even start a yard... the 4' deep is too deep to reach and by the time you get your yard ladders built there is not much left for the yard tracks. 4x4 for a layout mainly lets you run only in a circle, no straight tracks to speak of. If you want to build something at 4' long take a look at a NMRA compliant module and join a modular group in your area to join your module to others to form a much larger layout. 

My layout is in a 9x9 shed and I am only able to model one small city with a yard off to the side. My layout is around the walls of the shed and the deepest area is 24" x 48" small. Now there is plenty of stuff to do to keep operators busy for 2 or 3 hours running a full day's work on my layout but there are no chances for nice long trains. Just a few cars on local runs with some switching around the town.

Let us know how big of an area you have to build in and what your interests in railroading are and we should be able to help you build what you want.

Massey


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Thats what I was thinking but did not have the name for "modular" I was thinking I could build my 4x4' and have a track run to the end of by board and add a 2nd 4x4' or 4x8' from time to time. 

I do not yet understand what the wiring setup will need to be to run this modular setup or for that matter the wiring for any setup. 

Thank you for the links I will read then asap.


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Next question, On rolling stock are there any manufacturers that make metal shells? Are there any metal engines for that matter? A lot of the time the plastic looks like plastic. I think that is one reason I dont like O scale that much. Thanks again, Jared


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Well there is brass models but I will give you this warning:

They are EXPENSIVE, not usually painted and the engines can be flakey to downright a mechanical mess. 

Most brass models are steam and are also imports. They are highly detailed and look beautiful all and all. Modern plastic engines and cars are highly detailed and look IMHO just as good as brass. Hoppers and gondolas are usually the only ones that dont look quite right due to the thickness of the side walls needed to give the model strength but that is usualy not that big of a deal to most modelers. There were tin kits back in the 60 and 70s, I have a couple of these and I cant say they look better than the new stuff. Most newer high end plastic models have wire grabs, see through catwalks and crossover platforms. Some even have little metal chains for the brakes and detailed underbodies. The low end models like the basic bachmann or lifelike are almost toy like in their details and I can understand the plasticy look from them being undesireable.

Massey


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Ok thank you for that info. Are there some good paints that you can use on the rolling stock kits to get a more real look. Or is that look attained from good painting skills more then the type of paint?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

What do you mean a more real look? Are you talking about weathering and showing dirt? That can be done in many ways not limited to painting. As for the as new paint scemes most middle to upper end engines and rolling stock are as close as you can possibly get to the real thing. Now when you are painting a model and detailing it's paint then yes skill is going to play the largest part of the whole process. What one can do with an airbrush may look like a rattle can exploded while another may make the car look like it was the 1:1 simply shrunk down to 1:87

Massey


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Lol , So the high end trains look real. That is what I need to know. Its a bit hard to know what you are getting a lot of the on-line site dont have vary good closeup pics. And I just dont have a hobby shop near me to see how they look in person. Looking at some of the starter sets in the box store the train look bad. 

So brands like Kato and Proto 2000 will look much better correct? What about rolling stock. Who makes good looking stuff?


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Jay the smart thing to do is get some graph paper and draw something out to scale first. Track is 9" long mostly and turnouts are the same so you can figure out what to buy and know what you'll be doing with it at the very beginning. Then start building. It may not come out exactly as you draw it but the drawing will give you what you need to get a start on the layout.
4x4 is pretty small so you ought to plan on two 4x4 sections to see where it all wants to go. 2x4 sections are good too. Make a 'T' shaped bench or an 'H' shape or a 'U' shape if you have the room. Buy a Kalmbach book on layouts that will show you all kinds and sizes of designs to choose from. Atlas has a bunch of layout designs on line that you can print out from scratch. Lots of good info at Atlas too.
Everybody pretty much starts out like this and then the layout evolves into what you want as it goes along. Once you get going the plan goes out the window and you do what you like and what looks good to you.
Take a look at my thread on the Bonita Grand Central on here to see what I'm talking about. I've been at this build since May or so and it's already changed several times and it's being changed again now. But it all started with a simple oval of track and went from there. 
Another thing is go on Youtube and do a search for HO trains. Tons of videos there to look at. Pete


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

You can download Atlas RTS layout software from here:
http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm
and it's absolutely free! Just set your layout parameters to 4'x4' and start designing.
Good luck and welcome to the addiction!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Engine wise good engines are in no particular order

Kato (my favorite)
Athearn Blue Box (older cheaper but still very nice, but a little noisy)
Athearn RTR (updated BB engines with quieter drives and DCC ready)
Athearn Genisis (top of the line Athearn)
Atlas Master Gold (top of the line usually with decoders and sound)
Atlas Master Silver (same as gold with no decoder or sound but DCC ready)
Atlas Trainman (mid level quality and DCC ready on newer models)
Proto 2000 (walthers TOL engines with and with out decoders and sound)
Proto 1000 (Walther's Mid level engines. Usually the same drives as P2k just less details but still nice engines, I have several)
MTH (high end engines, nice details but DCS system is not 100% NMRA compliant)
Proto 2000 Heritage (same high quality as P2k only steam)
Braodway Limited Blue Line (mid level engines usually no sound but DCC ready)
Broadway Limited Paragon (TOL for BLI usually with sound and DCC)
Bachmann Spectrum. (high end Bachmann equipment the Steam engines are great)

There are others I know I missed and each has models that are better than others and each has it's quirks that may need tweeking. Kato engines are my favorite for a few reasons. First the drives are quiet and the engines pull well, the details are not too fine that touching them hurts the engine. All and all the higher end engines will look good and for the most part perform good. Brands to stay away from if you are concerned about detail and quality.

Lifelike (non P1k or P2k models)
Tyco 
Bachmann (non spectrum models)
Trainman (walther's entry level stuff)

Hope this helps you with picking out engines.

Massey


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Yes helps lots thank you. One question and kato. Do they have different degree's or different lines of quality under the Kato name? And if so how do they sort there levels?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Kato engines have 3 generations but quality wise they are all mid to high end.

Gen 1, Engines usually come with horn hook couplers, the box has a "window" to see the train through and the headlights are grain of rice bulbs, no DCC socket. These engines can easily be "updated" to Gen II engines.

Gen II, Knuckle couplers and a PC board with LED lights and DCC socket over all the engines have the same drive and details as a Gen I. Boxes are green and white no window

Gen III *current productions* Boxes are usually green fade to light green and no window. Some of these models have light decoders installed. Provisions for sound built in, no machining needed. All are DCC ready. Newer ones like the SD40-2 Mid have working ditch lights while the Gen II SD40-2 did not (gen II SD40-2 does have lighted ditch lights but they do not blink like the Gen III).

As far as different levels of quality like the Proto 1000/2000 no Kato did not go that route they just simply offer a great model at a very reasonable price. Not the highest level of details but they are by far some of the best models on the rails today.

Massey


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Can I ask you about your thoughts on Intermountain trains. I found some for sale on a on-line site recommended on the forums here. Thanks!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

They are one of the few companies that make Brass Diesel engines. They are as far as I know good quality and DCC ready if not already DCC and sound equipped. They are way out of my price range and most of my friend's range too!

Massey


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

jaywarren said:


> Can I ask you about your thoughts on Intermountain trains. I found some for sale on a on-line site recommended on the forums here. Thanks!


Intermountain also makes REAL nice cars. The nicest cars I currently have are Exactrail and Intermountain


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Brass is out of my price range as well. But the high end plastic do look good from what I can see and will go that direction. Going down to Milwaukee tomorrow and will see if I can find a hobby shop along the way to see one in person.


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## jaywarren (Dec 24, 2011)

Few more questions, how wide is Atlas code 83 track if you where to make a "U" shape track. I was thinking of running a long oval in my basement. 

Next question if I was to do I long oval say 10' foot long by x"' wide using DDC starter set I would need to connect power to one point on track. But being 10' long and 20' some total how many more points would I need to run power points to. Dont know the name for this or how to do this. Thanks Jared


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## jaydv (Dec 10, 2011)

Jay...I'm struggling with a small space also. One of the ideas I had was to split my 4x8 into quarters. Once the layout is complete, I'd be able to take it apart and stow it. Whether I could get the pieces and the track back together of course, is questionnable!!!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I am guessing by the first question you are refering to the radii of the track in a curve not the width. The tracks dont change in width at all or else derailings would happen too often. Most HO equipment will be happy on 22" radii or larger (44" diameter) some engines can take 18" radii just fine (36" Diameter).

That big of a loop will start having slow downs abut half way around. Another feeder in the oppisite side and the engine will never know.

I did a 5x9 layout in quarters and it turned out pretty good. Check out the pics below for some ideas on benchwork and what not.



































Massey


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## jaydv (Dec 10, 2011)

Massey said:


> I am guessing by the first question you are refering to the radii of the track in a curve not the width. The tracks dont change in width at all or else derailings would happen too often. Most HO equipment will be happy on 22" radii or larger (44" diameter) some engines can take 18" radii just fine (36" Diameter).
> 
> That big of a loop will start having slow downs abut half way around. Another feeder in the oppisite side and the engine will never know.
> 
> I did a 5x9 layout in quarters and it turned out pretty good. Check out the pics below for some ideas on benchwork and what not.


Massey, can you take this layout apart? If so, what's the method for disconnecting/reconnecting the track???


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Yes I could and I simply used a track piece that was cut to perfect length and made sure that one set of rail joiners could be slid back so I could release the track piece before taking the bench work apart and also have the benchwork put back together before installing the pieces. To adhear the balast I simply glued a thin piece of plastic to the bottom of the piece of track and glued the balast into that then when I removed the piece of track it would have the balast on everywhere but the sides, which was glued to the sides of the road bed.

Massey


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Oh and if you look at the near seam you can see the sections of track right in the middle of the curve that come out for disassembly of the layout. I tried to put swtiches and what not away from the seams but there was one place I could not dodge the seam so the switch was made to come out.

Massey


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## jaydv (Dec 10, 2011)

Massey, thanks for the info on the disconnect/connect question...very useful! Another question...did you use any hinges underneath or does the board simply come apart? I'm thinking of installing standard door hinges.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

no hinges but I did have some plywood plates that held the modules together for protection and transport. I set them scenery to scenery so nothing would be damaged in transport, and moving them was just like moving a foot locker around. IT worked out really well and they were small enough for one person but easier with 2 people or a hand truck.

Massey


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Adding hand/ foot rails to RTR rolling stock, possible?*

Has anyone tried this?what's all in involved? Etched walkways and such. Is it reasonably able to do? Any comments welcome, Thank you, in advance!
Regards,
tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*making do with less space is possible*

A small yard is a great starting place. A bunch of parallel rails together may hold up to
approximately(~) 20 cars,or so give or take. What I did was to use a 3way turnout(switch),and then shortened some turnouts,that I added to the3 branches of the ladder.
shortening the turnouts saves quite of bit of space in a smaller yard. While doing this
you will be able to see where to put additional service facilities.Sanding,coal,water and
such. Although I'm able to go forward and backwords.Being able to compromise for less
space is ok in this hobby. Goodluck and regards,tr1


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

I want to correct what Massy has to say about the current line of Bachmann locomotives. The current versions run quite well and are very reasonable pricewise, especially for the DCC versions.

I also have a Walters Trainline locomotive that runs quite well. I converted it to DCC.

Now if you want something that will run real smoothly at scale 3 MPH, probably not. But otherwise they are fine.


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## Dabigbozman (Feb 29, 2016)

With your size limitations I'd suggest N-Scale


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Detail parts*



tr1 said:


> Has anyone tried this?what's all in involved? Etched walkways and such. Is it reasonably able to do? Any comments welcome, Thank you, in advance!
> Regards,
> tr1


tr1; Yes, I have, and no it's not hard. There seems to be an article in nearly every month's issue of Model Railroader where someone has done this. Some of those concern modeling one specific locomotive, not just any RS-3, but Old# 3456 owned by the Erie RR. The others are simply upgrading a car's looks with better fittings. Usually there are some molded in details(grab irons for example) that need to be carefully removed with an Xacto knife chisel blade. then some sanding, gluing on the replacement parts, and repainting. You might start with something simple like removing a molded roof walk, and replacing it with an etched metal one. Use the boxcar you like least in case something goes wrong.

good luck;

Traction Fan


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Y'all know this is a 4+ year old thread that TR1 resurrected not once, but twice, right?


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*reserected a 4 year old post,not once, and once again*

My my, my how ones short term memory has affected my writing.


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