# advice needed lionel 2344



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I recently purchased a lionel 2344. It runs well , eunit cycles , horn works. My question is how far should I go into making sure it is in tip top shape. The paint is a bit beat up, I was thinking of repainting the frames. The battery comp. Needs cleaning. Any one know the best way to do this ( scotch brite and then wash out with contact clea n er?) I will shine up the armatures. New pick up rollers ( should I replace the whole assembly? ). Should I also take apart the worm gears and re grease? The wires look good. Anything im missing? Or any other advice? Both moters seem to run well and at the same speed. ( no ed I will not paint them blue comet blue, I am tempted though) picture s to follow, I have to change browsers.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Pictures


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## Hellgate (Nov 9, 2011)

I guess the question is: Do you want it to run like new/look like new or both?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd do the maintenance things you suggest, though there's no need to change rollers unless the current ones are truly bad. The picture doesn't look all that bad to me. I'd certainly lube everything, including the gearboxes, it's probably not been done since it was new.

Painting the frame seems like a good idea, the shell actually looks pretty good.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Hellgate, I'm not quite sure what I want yet. I was fishing for ideas. Grj, good advice as always. I might just oil / clean her up a bit and see how it goes. Maybe i'll hand paint the chassis. I could always strip it later!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> I recently purchased a Lionel 2344. ( no ed I will not paint them blue comet blue, I am tempted though)



PAINT THEM BLUE COMET BLUE?! 
A NYC 2344?!
WHAT ARE YOU NUTS! 

I would never suggest that.

The Blue comet was a steam locomotive. Not a diesel. 

Now.....I would suggest painting them Jersey Central green with the yellow striping and the yellow Lady Liberty. my first choice. :thumbsup:








Or I think this color scheme would look good also, it is good enough for them to do the Heritage train in this color. :thumbsup:
(thanks Jeff for the picture.)










BUT ALL BLUE! I WOULD HAVE NEVER SAID THAT.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Big ed, I was kidding but I thought you would recommend something like this


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That would look good if the silver was a darker blue to go along with that blue on it.

Or how about the silver in orange? Though I don't think orange would go with that light blue, that would need to be a dark blue.

And a few Lady Liberty's would be a must.
One for each side and a larger one on the nose. :thumbsup:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, so I cleaned up the 2344. It runs nice. Everything was oiled (grj was right, it looked as no one touched it for many years) and cleaned. I might paint it in the future, but for now the beat up look is growing on me! One question though, why does my 2344 not like my usc tracks? Not all of them but on two of them tge train seems to jump and the eunit cycles into neutral? Is the magnetic disk in the center of the track a bit higher then the rest of it? Any thoughts? One one usc I could change to a rsc, maybe both if I have no choice....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's not uncommon for the uncoupling tracks to bounce the rollers and cause the E-Unit to shift. Are you sure both rollers are working properly? Did you measure the resistance between them to make sure they're both connected internally?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No I haven't grj, but I will later today!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, I checked with my volt meter and rollers seem to be connected. I did spot this however. Could the rollers be the wrong size or the collector arm just worn out? Would a bit of a bounce through the roller up just a bit so it losses power? Any thoughts on what to replace? Can you see the difference between the size of the roller hole and the male part of the roller that fits inside it? I do not have any locos that are similar to this one to compare. Thanks.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SJM,

I don't fiddle with diesels, but I think that roller might not be original. Take a look at the pickup assembly in this ebay listing ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Line...561798?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20cfff3286

The rollers look bigger, with a rivet stud.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Way too much room for the roller. It should be snug.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Let's do a side-by-side comparison. I think his is the right part, but it does have some wear on it. What's the coupler shoe do on this one, never noticed that before.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Tj , grj , they do look different. And you gave me a great idea. The dum dum that I am did not even think to check to compare the a & b units together. Both units have the same size rollers but on the non powered unit the female parts on the roller are slightly bigger ( would this be considered an axel?). I think in my next tt order I will replace the rollers ( cheapest option first!). If that does not fix the problem I will buy the whole assembly. I know it needs a new shoe also but I think I can fix that ( I hope anyway). Tganks for pointing me in the right direction. I think the shoe is just for the automatic coupler. I will update when the parts come in.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

It looks like the hole in the arm of the pickup assembly is worn out. I suggest you replace it. The arm looks like it has some wear on it where it is rubbing on the 3rd rail or something. Also, oil the rollers. Some on this forum recommend NOT oiling the rollers, and you can see the result of lack of lube. Use 5/10W-20/30 motor oil for everything, including the commutator. Make sure the commutator slots are clean. Do not use 3 in 1 oil, WD-40, Lionel Lube, light machine oil, grease, or you will be cleaning that stuff out of the loco and lubing it again in a year or so. Motor oil never dries out. I have been using it for 50+ years without a problem.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I just notced the litlle pickup shoe is all beat up. Without the angles it must be catching. ANother problem. Yes I vote oil. They are worn museum pieces.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks, all. Servoguy I think I will order new pick up assembly (or at least the arms). Whatever I dont use will go into my stock for future use. It never hurts to have spar parts! T-man the pu shoe will go also, just in case!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok so I got my parts in. Jeff at the train tender had the whole arm assembled. That will save me some trouble when I do the install tomorrow. I'll update after its tested. I did purchase a b unit at the train show. It was in ok shape. I was on my way back to take a second look at the b unit and the seller had found my daughter's teddy bear. So I coughed up the 60 $ , just happy I didn't have to listen to a screaming toddler during the ride home. The main problem with the b unit is that someone did a crappy improvement to the top. They cut through tge shell in order to place a wire vent in the top. I saw this and wasn't going to buy the unit but because of the bear I did. I was going to buy the screen that the a unit has and install underneath. But as you can see in the picture the saw cut through some ridges that stick out to me. T-man used epoxy on some of his rigs.Ddoes any one think I can epoxy the sides smooth and then touch up paint them. I will be careful to tape off the top shell. What kind of epoxy is used and tips? Or is there a better way ? I know this car was made after my set. I didn't need it . Ok maybe I did.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You can use some JB Weld epoxy with some backing material on the inside to fill/fair those holes. It'll require some care with the sanding/smoothing, though.

As an option, consider cutting a piece of thin/flat styrene (or a plastic credit-card-style hotel key) into a rectangle shape, and epoxy-glue that to the top, creating a raised panel (or two) that looks like it would be part of the roof paneling. Not as "purist", but perhaps easier / cleaner in the long run.

You're lucky in that the area requiring paint is defined nicely with crisp edges, easily taped off.

Looks like a nice find to me. Teddy bear and all!

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm with TJ, JB Weld will do wonders for that top, you can smooth it in so you won't even see it.

As you say, blending the paint in will be the biggest chore.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks tj, grj, I might have to practice with the jb weld a bit before I try it on this car. And tj good back up plan of building a cover. Thanks.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

If you opt to go with the "cover" route, consider using a two-tone paint theme for this. Maybe paint the cover the lighter grey (stripe on side of car), rather than trying to match (spot-on) the darker grey of the existing roof. Or, use an even darker grey.

Sometimes, standing out is easier / more convincing than trying to blend in.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That has no power (motor right?) I wonder why he did that?
To get rid of heat?

I go with tJ, if it was to get rid of some kind heat, leave them there and put a raised cover over them using epoxy.

Or else if you look at some B units there are vents on top, I wonder if that is molded into the body or can you buy the vents separate?

See the vents on this one?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No motor ed, lionel made two types of these the first one was similar to my a unit with screens for the top the later version had the plastic louvers. They cut off the plastic to try make it match the others ( just guessing in my part). It was very badly done.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, so I finally got around to putting in the new pick up. It worked great. After comparing the old one vs the new one it turns out the old one was shot. The roller pin holes were worn out. They were to big for the roller pin. As the roller hit the magnet on the ucs track the eunit cycled and put the rig into neutral. The new assembly was a little different in that the arms were orientated at a different angle. When installed and track tested it preformed perfectly. I installed a new wire from the pu shoe to the power coupler. The other wire went to the pu rollers. Many thanks to everyone here. I will post an update on the b unit on this thread shortly!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SJM,

Glad to hear the new roller assembly is up and running. In comparing the two, it empasizes how worn out those old roller holes actually were!

TJ


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> Thanks tj, grj, I might have to practice with the jb weld a bit before I try it on this car. And tj good back up plan of building a cover. Thanks.


You can also make a patch to fit underneath. Once in place use common body filler aka Bondo or similar to fill the holes. Filler is much, much, much easier to sand and shape than JB weld. 

Carl


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The B unit is supposed to have two vents. In the early versions, the vents were covered with screen as the A unit shows. Later models had slots in the roof. Apparently the PO tried to make vents with screen but did a poor job. Filling in the holes would be incorrect.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If they're supposed to be there as Bruce suggests, why not simply find some better screen and do the vents properly?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes grj, servoguy is correct. The problem is the shell is thicker then the others with the screen. In addition the part that was cut out had accordian like support ridges that can be seen from the side. Kind of like corrugated cardboard. I chickened out on the jb weld for now(I still need to try it on a few things first.) If I get proficient using it I could straighten out the sides and try a screen. But in the meantime how about something like this. I used tj's idea and just used some wooden blocks. This was a sort of test run. If I determine I like it I will use a better quality wood or metal blocks. What do you guy's think? Is this out of place on the train or does it blend in? Pics to follow!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Pictures are here!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks out of place to me, but I'm only a sample of one.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Maybe take the wooden block you made and cut some lines on it to make it look more like a vent and instead of attaching it to the top set it down in the hole to make it level/flush with the top?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Got It, make vent more vent like.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Teaches me to post without looking at the pics.  The 2343's had wire vents, very true. After looking at the pics, I would have changed my suggestion. I would have removed the excess material using either a Dremel or a file along the sides until the serrations (old vents) were gone. Then sourced the correct material for the 2343 and installed them, or at the very least something close to it. 

Carl


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok you guys win. I will try and put in the screen in order to restore the car to its former glory. I have to order the screen, and smooth the sides of the holes out with some sort of filler. Updates to follow.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Ok you guys win. I will try and put in the screen in order to restore the car to its former glory. I have to order the screen, and smooth the sides of the holes out with some sort of filler. Updates to follow.


You mean that they sell this part? 

Heck, you should have bought them in the first place then. 
How much can they cost?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

They sell it for the other a/b units. The one I have is made differently. The plastic is too thick and the shell is uneven on the inside, in addition to the badly cut plastic that needs filling. For you guys it might be a walk in the park to fix, for me it's not that easy!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You just build it up a bit more than necessary with JB Weld and then file everything off that doesn't look like the correct sized hole.  Kinda' like whittling a canoe out of a tree trunk. 

Seriously, you'll find that JB Weld works very easily, If I can use it, anyone can.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Here is the vent to my 2333. If it helps.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice pic t-man, the plastic on the c? unit is about 6 times as thick then on the a b unit. I didn't think that the screen would ride up high enough to be seen. I might be able to rebend it but the memory of the original bend I thought would give me some trouble. I will try it or something similar so stay tuned.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You could probably find some fine screening at your local big box hardware store and make the screens.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

My screen is original . This time, I have changed things often but not this time.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was referring to the problem that we discussing, the wooden blocks current in place are not original.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, I'm using a few different ideas from everyone. So this is what I came up with. I'm currently trying to smooth out the sides slowly with a type of bondo. I'm using multiple small coats as I had both large and small holes to fill. That will get sanded and painted. The screen will be custom made( best I can do for now) from emery cloth painted silver. You can see the difference in the shell thickness from my side by side pic. I thought the emery cloth was more flexible then the original wire and would bend to better fit the large hole. I will also use my wood blocks to push the emery cloth closer to the top of the train so you can see it. That's the plan anyway? Is this better? (have to switch browsers for pic)


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Pictures are here!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You might try forming the screening into the slots so it's closer to the top of the shell. Look at the picture of T-Man's stock screen.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That's a relatively large mesh on the new screen, too. Maybe add a 2nd layer beneath it, to give the illusion of a tighter mesh / more "depth" to the screening?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Grj, yes I will push the screen up( bondo is not dry yet, six coats have been applied, and then paint has to dry) with a wood block. tj good idea to double up the screen. I just put the screen under the unit to try and show the difference in the shell thickness, it doesn't show up in the picture well. Thanks for the ideas, I guess I'm just not that creative!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Just remember this saying while you're evaluating all the comments from the *Peanut Gallery*. 

*Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing!*


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, the correct statement is "Nothing is hard for the guy that doesn't have to do it."


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Funny you should say that. I always believed in the opposite.   It is not as hard as it looks! I try to present things that are do able. Spark some encouragement on the way.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Whatever the task, it's certainly harder for the guy that's doing it than for the *sidewalk superintendent*.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

All of you are correct! It is easy to criticize when you are not doing the task yourself. And it usually is easier to do then you think. I just like having lots of input on something so I don't mess it up. The bondo job is done and painted ( not to bad for a first time). I am looking into acquiring some different screening that looks more original. Thanks guys, I sometimes need a push. Hopefully my next attempt will fare better. I was going to originally justify the wooden blocks as new EPA required air scrubbers!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Air scrubbers, I love it! Of course, they'd be more realistic if they were scrubbing the stack air and not the intake air.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

We all can't be perfect! Buget cuts etc.. We just put the pieces wherever they fit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sequester hit your trains as well, right?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Found some parts within the Buget, and some new personal to install them. The people who put in the blocks were transferred to coal shoveling detail on an older rig. Ok so here goes, Bono and paint applied. I used some screening from hd and doubled it it as per tj advice. The screen was hard to work into the channels. If you can see the depth I was taking about is more apparent now that the plastic was filled in. The screen being metal scraped up the new paint job pretty good but after the screen was installed is is not too noticeable. I cut and painted blocks and wedged them in to shape and hold the screens. It doesn't look good in a close up picture but on the track from a little distance I think it looks good. It's one million times better then what I started with. The glue on the top was not me and I couldn't get it off. The original air vents were plastic louvers that were cut out. That's why I had the coragation in the plastic shell. Pics to follow. I also will try to order a reproduction screen and try to bend it in when I place my next order.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Pictures are here.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

And one up close, my daughter chose some of those pic.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Paint them the same shade of gray & maybe you won't notice them so much?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I might have to antique them a bit. I just finished it and the flash makes them stand out. Forgot to add, servoguy I took apart the trucks and added a liberal amount or oil. I just tried out a few tests to see how to darken it best. Might take some tweaking, have to wait for stains to dry.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks great, I agree with Ed, dull them down like the original and they'll be fine.


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