# Labor rate??



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

What's a decent labor rate... My local shop has a $30 dollar an hour labor rate, or $7.50 per 15 minutes, with a minimum of $7.50 to start..I charge $10 freakin bucks an hour, and it seems people have a hard time paying it!!! This is going to be a rant!!....I restored 2 locomotives for a customer, a 321 and a 300AC. Pictures were provided in another thread. I had approx. $67 bucks in parts alone on the 300, and about $62 bucks in the 321. I had 8 1/2 hours tied up in labor, which included trouble shooting the engines, sand-blasting, stripping, oiling, greasing, dis-assembly, and re-assembly. Bench-tested each one, and then lay-out tested each one. I also had to fabricate several parts as they were broken or missing. $85 bucks in labor for the 2 engines, which all added up to $214 bucks. I like round numbers so I rounded DOWN to $200 bucks! Now get this... My wife and myself drove a total of 5 HOURS to hand deliver them to the customer, as he had some more stuff to be worked on. Of course, no charge for the gas wasted! He liked what he saw, BUT, he wanted them to look OLD, not new! What the hell is a restoration suppose to look like?? He didn't like the new handrails, polished doo-dads, etc. Ok, so be it.. He had several boxes of trains, including a Atlantic that wasn't running, and a mess of real nasty freight cars. We took the 2 boxes of cars and loaded them into my car. I asked the customer what he thought of the restorations, and he told me the prices were a little high, but he paid it. Well, we got home, and I imediately started working on the worst of the cars; pulling chassis pins, journal boxes, rust removing, freeing up couplers,etc. Low and behold, I get a phone call from this guy, and he asks me if I picked up the boxes of nasty freight cars? I told him I had, and then the fun started. The first thing out of his mouth was " I'm not some kind of incompetent idiot who can't clean his own cars". Then he goes on to say.."I'm not a rich man"! Well, guess what?? All work stopped, parts were placed into plastic bags, and that's the end of that mess. I'll work on the Atlantic and get it running, but that's where it stops.. I'm done...:thumbsdown:Maybe I'm getting a little thin-skinned in my old age, but this p+++ed me off. I can't say what my wife told me to do,lol. Comments would be appreciated, telling me if I'm right to feel like this, or not.... But by the way, I'll fix anyone's engine here on the forum, for free, plus parts and shipping..As always...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Yes, a rant, but justified. I use a lot of service providers for my new Legacy and TMCC engines. I never expect anything for free. Some people charge low rates for service just because they like what they do. I could never work in a B to C business for the reasons you talk about in your post. Clients in B to B businesses are bad enough. 
I have paid to have a lot of AM engines converted to TMCC. The price averages out to about $350, parts and labor. I do not know what the hourly rate is at that price. Customers should make clear what their expectation is before the work is started and be prepared to pay a fair price. Otherwise they should do it themselves.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

You're a skilled worker. 30 sounds fair, maybe more. My local hobby shop charges 100 for a decoder install, depending on motor/frame isolation. This is something you like to do and I would assume you don't need any grief. Choose your projects carefully!!!


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## johnfl68 (Feb 1, 2015)

Depends on what I am doing, but usually around $35 an hour plus parts and expendables, as well as travel time and expenses if not reasonably close (less than an hour).

Some people complain about the cost, others understand that my time is valuable and have no problem paying the cost.

Try to give as best of an estimate as you can in advance, so if they think it is too much, the can look into other options, and not waste your time.

I know many hobby shops charge $100-$200 just for decoder installs with sound (not including decoder and parts), which doesn't take that long if you know what you are doing. 

Your rates were more than fair, and if they wanted a specific look to be maintained, they should have told you up front what they expected before you started.

John


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

johnfl68 said:


> Your rates were more than fair, and if they wanted a specific look to be maintained, they should have told you up front what they expected before you started.


I must agree 100%. It sounds to me as if the person is attempting to worm out of an agreement. Years ago I owned my own shop doing all types of repairs on all scales. I also carried new and used trains. I always provided written estimates with expected date of completion. When work was completed I would make two telephone calls for customer to pickup their property. Five days after second call I would send a USPS Registered Letter stating that their property would be sold to cover costs in ten days. In almost all cases the customer would pick up their property. And would continue to be a happy customer down the road. After almost twenty years I closed my doors due to my physical limitations, that was thirty years ago. To this day I have former customers wanting to have work done.

Don't worry about a few flakes and deadbeats.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I usually charge a fixed price for common installations that I've done lots of and know how long they take. However, truth be told, I'm lucky to make $25/hr on train work. If I didn't like to do it, it sure wouldn't be something I'd pick as a money making career.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Can't add anything more to these comments and you're justified to let off some "steam"....so to speak.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I do commiserate with you flyernut the guy does seem to be an **sehole. Unfortunately there's no pleasing some people no matter what you do! Don't put yourself out for folks, they usually won't appreciate it.


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## Gman307 (Sep 21, 2015)

Flyernut, I fix vacuum tube guitar amps, and I charge $75 an hour. Tube amps are WAY easier to repair than model trains. You way under charge. And these "customers" don't understand it's expertise they are paying for, again, you way under charge. And I'm sure the ones who do know you GLADLY pay, even after you tell them no charge buddy. I now just help my friends, known great customers I charge for parts only (and will accept tips), and the rest either get soaked for their fantasic attitudes or turned down. I have a box I nearby where I keep all the ___holes that have been ripped from my backside. I say help the ones who appreciate and to hell with the rest. The only one thing I have on you is that when a irate customer gets all upset and says he's going to take his gear to the other store across town to get it fixed, I tell them that I'm the amp tech for them too!!!!!!


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Gman307 said:


> Flyernut, I fix vacuum tube guitar amps, and I charge $75 an hour. Tube amps are WAY easier to repair than model trains. You way under charge. And these "customers" don't understand it's expertise they are paying for, again, you way under charge. And I'm sure the ones who do know you GLADLY pay, even after you tell them no charge buddy. I now just help my friends, known great customers I charge for parts only (and will accept tips), and the rest either get soaked for their fantasic attitudes or turned down. I have a box I nearby where I keep all the ___holes that have been ripped from my backside. I say help the ones who appreciate and to hell with the rest. The only one thing I have on you is that when a irate customer gets all upset and says he's going to take his gear to the other store across town to get it fixed, I tell them that I'm the amp tech for them too!!!!!!


Lol, I like your attitude. The deal around here is one shop charges $30 bucks an hour at 1/4 increments, or $7.50 for 15 minutes, minimum of 15 minutes. The other shop charges $55 bucks for a thorough cleaning, dis-assembly, re-assembly, plus any parts. That's the only 2 shops I know of that do train repairs, in a 5-6 county area.And again, for anyone here in the forum, free repairs on flyers, plus shipping and parts, if I can do it.


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## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

Hey Flyernut, you work too cheap, and your rant is perfectly understandable. 

I don't know what the right answer is, have you considered the flat rate approach you mentioned the other guy in your area uses? Maybe it was the surprise that set this guy off.

Anyway, your rate is too low for what you do, and the finished product that you put out. 

So don't let that guy affect your hobby or your revenue and steam on, LOL.

George


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Aflyer said:


> Hey Flyernut, you work too cheap, and your rant is perfectly understandable.
> 
> I don't know what the right answer is, have you considered the flat rate approach you mentioned the other guy in your area uses? Maybe it was the surprise that set this guy off.
> 
> ...


George, I've done work for this guy before with no problems. And I gave him an itemized list of parts that I used on his locos. I didn't even charge him for shipping on many of the parts, and on the parts I did charge him, I didn't add any expense to it!!! I told him I purchase from PortLines, and he can check the prices with Doug Peck. Open and honest!! I've got a 302 I'm working on for him now, and it's another roach. No sand-blasting, no re-paint, no re-lettering, just make it run, smoke, and light. The trouble is it looks like the tender sat at the bottom of a river since new, all rusted up and corroded. I finally got the e-unit freed up, the drum out, and all the rust from the trucks removed. The wheels were frozen in the trucks, and all in all, a model T would have been a better candidate..The other stuff I received from him I'm not going to do any work on them. Heck with that!! My wife already has looked up his address so I can ship everything back to him without having to deal with him...He owns a business so it was easy to find the address.


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