# Cost to convert to DCC?



## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I am in the process of building a new layout. In the past everything was DC. I have not yet laided and track. There will be two loops with upto 200 feet of track between them, a yard for each and a turntable with roundhouse. 

Most of my steamers are old Mantua and Riverossi locomotives. The diesels are Athearn BB. What is the average cost to convert these per locomotive? I have ~30 steamers and ~40 diesels. 

On the last layout I used blocks without issue to run multiple trains on the same track, will dcc automate this? Also do I have to re-motor or will modern decoders handle the old Athearn BB and Pitman open frame style motors?

Other than limiting the number of needed blocks what is the DCC advantage? Sound is out of my price range at this time.

The system I am looking at is made by NCE. It is the 'Power Cab'. LHS sells and supports their equipment so help is not far away.

If I stay DC then I am using a pair of DC Sound and Power 7000 units to power the equipment.


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## 10wheeler (Feb 13, 2013)

DCC's big advantage is that you are running trains and not the track they run on. I converted my DC layout in 2000 to DCC with a Digitrax Zephyr system and have loved the the fact that I did it. It's pretty easy to calculate the cost. It sounds like your layout could end up conderably larger than mine and you may need to have power boosters/districts (My layout covers a similar amount of space and does not require powerboosters). If you do need them, you will need to determine how many and add their costs into the total. Then determine the amount and types of throttles you will need and finally what type and amount of decoders you want. I may be wrong about boosters being needed, you will need to make this determination, yourself!

Some may tell you to stay DC and still others will tell you to go DCC. I only espouse doing your own "due diligance" and making up your own mind.


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## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

You can get the Bachmann EZ comand for around $100 or less used. Without sound the locomotives are not too expensive but when you add sound the price goes way up.
I'm new to DCC so I'm sure there will be better opinions to come. Don


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## feldon30 (Dec 30, 2012)

tkruger said:


> I am in the process of building a new layout. In the past everything was DC. I have not yet laid any track. There will be two loops with up to 200 feet of track between them, a yard for each and a turntable with roundhouse.
> 
> Most of my steamers are old Mantua and Riverossi locomotives. The diesels are Athearn BB. What is the average cost to convert these per locomotive? I have ~30 steamers and ~40 diesels.


Not sure on the steamers, but the cost on the Athearn BB's is about $20 each if you are handy with a soldering iron. On the really old units you may need to replace the built-in headlight with one that is electrically isolated from the frame.



tkruger said:


> On the last layout I used blocks without issue to run multiple trains on the same track, will dcc automate this?


In DCC, you just wire up the whole track. For a layout of the size you are talking, you'll want to divide the track up into districts. You don't have to switch power to the districts, but they help with troubleshooting and power management.



tkruger said:


> Also do I have to re-motor or will modern decoders handle the old Athearn BB and Pitman open frame style motors?


DCC can control just about any motor, but those older motors may draw a lot of power, up to 1 amp per engine. Newer can motors draw 1/2 amp or less.



tkruger said:


> Other than limiting the number of needed blocks what is the DCC advantage?



Not having to switch blocks
Addressing engines by a 2 or 4 digit number (typically their road number)
Prototypical speedup/slowdown which emulates the weight of a locomotive
Adjusting the acceleration curve of each engine in up to 128 steps
Consisting engines together and speed-matching them for smooth pulling
Adding and controlling additional lights to your engines such as a rear red flashing light, ditch lights that can flash, strobe, etc.
Whenever you add Sound to one of your engines, limitless customization 
Control your layout and program your engines from a computer, tablet, or phone
The biggest disadvantage of course is cost.



tkruger said:


> The system I am looking at is made by NCE. It is the 'Power Cab'. LHS sells and supports their equipment so help is not far away.


An NCE Power Cab is a 2 amp system. I have a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra which is a 3 amp system. Both have their supporters on this forum. 

I'm not sure either will be sufficient for 200 feet of track and running older engines that may draw a lot of power. But I *am not an expert*.


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## Sawdust (Oct 26, 2010)

I would consider something you won't be bored with later & you have the abilities to expand. NIMT will probably be on later with some good advice...he seems to be the go to man in this area.


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## feldon30 (Dec 30, 2012)

Also it just occurred to me... You have 200 feet of space to do HO layout and you're just going to do 2 loops? I'm stuck with just 5' x 9' and I'm still changing it up a bit just to make things interesting.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Though my personal choice is Digitraxx,you're looking at a very good option with NCE.It's not your first layout so I can assume you want a long term investment so I believe you should stay away from cheap systems like MRC,Bachmann's,etc.Most of them offer very little expansion possibilities on top of being very limited with what you can do with them.

Older loco designs may be hard to retrofit to DCC as you may have to isolate the motor in many cases and you may even have to do some machining of frames to allow sufficient room for even the smallest decoders.Steamers are generally easier there as the decoders are installed in the tender.Wether you'll have to re-motor depends on the actual current draw of each locomotive...you'll have to test each loco to know.Older motor designs tend to draw more current indeed.

The cost per loco differs widely.Some decoders can be bought in ten packs for as low as twenty dollars or even less but then good sound decoders will cost over a hundred dollars in some cases.My suggestion is that you stick with good quality decoders...quality pays on the long run.There are good brands like Soundtraxx (yes they make silent decoders at competitive prices,Sean (NIMT) can supply you),Digitrax,NCE and TCS.Stay away from cheap brands,MRC being the worst deal you can get

The main advantage of DCC is having any loco operated independently from any other loco,even on the same track.Then you also have control of lights (and sounds) independently of loco movement.

Not a single DCC set will automate your layout's operation alone but it is possible with additions of sensors and other electronic devices coupled to a computer.But then expect the costs to go up substantially.


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## 10wheeler (Feb 13, 2013)

I would also go with a system that is upgradable. If the starter system does not allow upgrading, you might become very disapointed with it in the future.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

tkruger

You asked the advantages of DCC....


FUN!!!


Example: There is a very large DCC club layout in my area...it
seems a block long and half that wide...several members can
operate their own trains on it just as if they were in the loco cab...
they each have a wireless DCC controller...they walk along side
their train as rumbles down the track, blowing the horn at grade crossings and observing proto road rules...no throwing block switches or worrying about
polarity...just fun...

Example: My own layout is intentionally single track with a number of
passing sidings...I wanted something that would demand
BEING OPERATED...I run 2 trains at the same time...each
with it's own controller...in opposite directions...now you
must be alert or trains go crashing into each other or
derail on a turnout set against them...but it's fun...and
that ain't so easy on a DC layout.


Don


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

short answer here: its how ever much you want to spend and depends on what your going to get/do

as for DCC if your still selecting what system to use yes you can get the Botchmann E-Z command for $100 or less (mine was $104 at the time I got it) however I DO NOT recomend it to anyone...mine burned out with less then 1 year of use total (total to about 5 or so months if even that) as I only used it at shows which was maybe 10 times total....so yea I don't recomend it...plus its limited.


if your looking for a DCC system thats expandable and easy to use I would suggest and recomend Digitrax and NCE power cab (i think thats the name) Digitrax is a bit simpler to use as far as programming then NCE (IMO) but once you learn either your good to go.


as for your locos if your wanting just DCC with lighting only no sound avrage price is about $50 - $100 on up if you want DCC and sound your looking from $100 on up, now if you are wanting to refit your fleet its going to be cost of the decoder/board, man hours (if farming out to someone else to do) and possibly equipment/supplies (solder and solder gun if you want to do it your self).

as for your layout from your description you will need at least a few boosters if its going to be as large as it sounds...hopefully im just misreading things though...

as for the set up only you will know the true cost once you figure out the following

how many boosters/repeaters do you need?
how many cabs/opperators do you want to have at any given time/accomidate for running trains?
are you going to refit just a few engines or your entire fleet?
what type of decoders do you want to use?
do you want sound in any (all?) locos?
are you going to rebuild your layout? (from scratch, or just keep the existing table/bench set up and just redo the scenery/track and buildings, ect)
do you want control of the trains and signals or are you wanting full automation with detection and transponding? (honestly I would suggest keep it simple and if you do use detection type set up just set it up so you can run the trains and the signals are triggered automaticially).
how many districts/blocks are you needing/wanting? (goes back to the booster question here)
Do you want computer control of your trains? (goes back to the automation question)

once some of the basics are answered the rest should start to fall into place really.

also one thing people some times (at least what I have obserbved with the club folks here) they forget to leave an area dedicated to a programming track to program there locos...


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Sounds like everyone has been giving some great advice!:thumbsup:

I can probably set you up with the decoders for cheaper than you can get them anywhere else too.

Sound can get a little pricy, but get started with the basics and upgrade later on!


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice. This is sounding much more expensive than I originally thought. I was thinking of building two independent loops with a total of just under 200 feet of track including the yards (one yard for each and a roundhouse). I would be retrofitting my older locos. I am rebuilding from the ground up. Have 75% of the bench work done to date. In this layout there are plans to make multiple blocks regardless of if I go DC or DCC. Might wire it to go either way. That way when I can afford to go DCC properly then I can. Last thing I want to do is cut corners. Or run one loop DCC and the other DC.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I could enroll you in the decoder of the month program!
A new decoder would just show up each month!


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