# Aqualungs R&R



## Aqualungs

Hey everyone! Needed a hobby besides rebuilding RCs, especially when I have times where walking and getting around isn't so easy. Always wanted trains! It started off with the idea of a Christmas train and a new shoe in for a hobby. I built a small 2x4 table to fit next to the tree, and top play Legos with my nephew. I went with N Scale so I could fit more in a small area. I could have went HO as I do have the space, but maybe another time!
I went with the 2015 Operation North Pole with M1 set, then added the Inner oval and the F7 Blue Bonnet Freight train. Last week I received the Variation 4 and Variation 7 and some more extra track. I am starting to see the fun in having a yard and another small yard in another spot. The Yard kit and Viaduct kit may be the next purchase.. or at least turnouts and controls.
This weekend I built a bigger surface of 34” x 72” by joining some 1”x12”x6’ boards and some scrap wood for the console and turnout switches. I am designing a base to build, and I am already toying with the idea of making it a horse shoe by add 2 more 2’x6’ sections
I would love some advice and have so much more reading and learning to do. Would love a good book or magazine to read for off internet time. I will post some pictures to show my progress and fun I am having. I will stick with Kato Uni track for now and plan to do some scenery too, when I find a layout I really like. I don’t necessarily need to recreate a real life scene, but believable and would like it make up my landscape and buildings. Here’s what track I have so far.

Straight Track
14 – 248mm
04 – 186mm
02 – 124mm
02 – 124mm Rerailer
05 – 62mm
02 – 62mm feeder
**
02 – 60mm Straight Bevel Left
02 – 60mm Straight Bevel Right

Curve
08 – 315mm – 45 deg.
08 – 282mm – 45 deg.
04 – 249mm – 45 deg.
02 – 481mm – 15 Deg.

Special
02 – 248mm Viaduct Bridge
02 – S62mm Bumper

Electric w/Controls
01 - #4 Left Turnout
01 - #4 Left Turnout
01 – 310mm Crossover


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## Aqualungs

Here's some pics

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## MichaelE

Welcome to the site.


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## Aqualungs

MichaelE said:


> Welcome to the site.


Thanks! 
Found and downloaded some PDFs on first layout, on another thread. This should help!


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## clovissangrail01

Nicely done. I am looking forward to watching it grow.

Those Kato Variation packs are great. A good cost-effective way to buy track. And you don't waste anything.

And that F7 Bluebonnet is a handsome unit. I have a couple myself pulling a grain hopper drag into the Acme Spaghetti Factory (still under construction).


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## Aqualungs

Thanks! The Blue Bonnet really moves compared to the other locomotive. I need some more rolling stock for thell freight train, so I've been watching ebay. I added a light to the caboose. Glad Iused the amber insert, because Ican't imagine it any brighter!
Gotten a good idea of where I'm going with more reading and youtube vids. I would definitely like 1-2 yard locations, and 2-3 spur locations. Thinking when I make the table a horse shoe or L shape, that could happen. The bigger part in the middle table maybe a small town with a cool little main street. The rest would probably be landscape. A mountain tunnel has to happen. I would like this to be a combination of a working model railroad setup but also with a 2 track round to let the trains run continuously. I enjoy watching them go around just as much as parking them and moving them to spurs. So I will have to get creative which is good. 
I plan to add a few more variations and track before finalizing a good seutup, and I guess that is the point, right?
Also plan to upgrade to DCC in the future with sound.


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## Aqualungs

By the way what do you guys think about N scale magazine? I was thinking of subscribing and or a book to order and read. I need some tangible pages to turn!

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## clovissangrail01

Nice pictures. Here's mine. I put two of those sets together and added some additional Kato hoppers --

Be careful about buying rolling stock on eBay. Your equipment is all Kato, and Kato couplers don't want to work with anything but other Kato couplers. You'll have to do some coupler conversions if you don't get Kato rolling stock. (I have a string of of nice boxcars sitting in their boxes because I learned this the hard way.)


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## Aqualungs

Awesome thanks for the tip. I almost bid on a set and checked the couplers and they weren't the same lol.
That's a good idea to buy another set. 

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## CTValleyRR

Aqualungs said:


> By the way what do you guys think about N scale magazine? I was thinking of subscribing and or a book to order and read. I need some tangible pages to turn!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Would you consider an eZine? Far and away the best model railroading publication (in my book) is Model Railroad Hobbyist. The basic publication is free on line, and even more content for a small fee. Visit www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Welcome, playing with trains is so much fun. If I may make a suggestion, on the turnouts I read that the #4s are a bit troublesome of the longer locos and cars and the recommendation was to go with the longer #6 turnouts. You could probably still use the 4s as a yard switch instead of mainline


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> By the way what do you guys think about N scale magazine? I was thinking of subscribing and or a book to order and read. I need some tangible pages to turn!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

As a long time N-scaler, I would suggest Model Railroader Magazine rather than N-scale Magazine. The latter is all N-scale of course, but I've subscribed to both, and found a lot more content I actually used in Model Railroader than in N-scale Magazine.
Also MR comes every month and N-scale is bi-monthly.
A good first book on trains is "Getting Started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It covers a wide variety of model railroad subjects in simple text and many photos. You can order it from www.amazon.com

After many years of model railroading I now no longer subscribe to any magazines.
I found that they tended to rerun the same topics and I had learned enough from the magazines, my club, and my own decades of experience, that for me, it was no longer worth the cost.

Your layout looks like you're off to a decent start. You might look into a sheet of 1"-2" thick extruded foam insulation board for a layout base. It will give you a continuous flat surface for your track. The separate planks you're using now will have built-in bumps between boards, and will warp eventually. The foam is very strong, very lightweight and can be carved or stacked to form scenery.

However, for a new person, Model Railroader Magazine is a great resource, and I did learn a great deal from Model Railroader in my earlier days.
Many public Libraries subscribe to Model Railroader, (in the children's section ) so you might check it out there.

Just curious. Were the PDFs on building a first layout you saw the ones I wrote, like this one?

Traction Fan 🙂


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## QueenoftheGN

Aqualungs said:


> By the way what do you guys think about N scale magazine? I was thinking of subscribing and or a book to order and read. I need some tangible pages to turn!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Here’s another good one, they do a lot of layout tours (Which I enjoy, but others might not) but occasionally they’ll have a project someone could do.


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## Aqualungs

CTValleyRR said:


> Would you consider an eZine? Far and away the best model railroading publication (in my book) is Model Railroad Hobbyist. The basic publication is free on line, and even more content for a small fee. Visit www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com.


I will check it out thank you!

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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Welcome, playing with trains is so much fun. If I may make a suggestion, on the turnouts I read that the #4s are a bit troublesome of the longer locos and cars and the recommendation was to go with the longer #6 turnouts. You could probably still use the 4s as a yard switch instead of mainline


Wooky I stumbled on a thread a day before MB Klein filled my order and was worried. They have been ok so far. I had 2 or 3 derailment but I agree and going with #6 in the future. I think they are even cheaper!? I looked at rhe yard variation pack and it has #6s. I can make a small yard with the 4s like you suggested

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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> As a long time N-scaler, I would suggest Model Railroader Magazine rather than N-scale Magazine. The latter is all N-scale of course, but I've subscribed to both, and found a lot more content I actually used in Model Railroader than in N-scale Magazine.
> Also MR comes every month and N-scale is bi-monthly.
> A good first book on trains is "Getting Started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It covers a wide variety of model railroad subjects in simple text and many photos. You can order it from www.amazon.com
> 
> After many years of model railroading I now no longer subscribe to any magazines.
> I found that they tended to rerun the same topics and I had learned enough from the magazines, my club, and my own decades of experience, that for me, it was no longer worth the cost.
> 
> Your layout looks like you're off to a decent start. You might look into a sheet of 1"-2" thick extruded foam insulation board for a layout base. It will give you a continuous flat surface for your track. The separate planks you're using now will have built-in bumps between boards, and will warp eventually. The foam is very strong, very lightweight and can be carved or stacked to form scenery.
> 
> However, for a new person, Model Railroader Magazine is a great resource, and I did learn a great deal from Model Railroader in my earlier days.
> Many public Libraries subscribe to Model Railroader, (in the children's section ) so you might check it out there.
> 
> Just curious. Were the PDFs on building a first layout you saw the ones I wrote, like this one?
> 
> Traction Fan


Excellent I will order thay book. I plan on picking up foam soon and building a permanent base.
Ha yes those were your PDFs. I started reading them last night.  Thanks!

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## Aqualungs

Hopefully warping should be minimal used wood glue and my jig to seam the panels together. Then sanded the surface as flat as possible until foam time. I also put supports across the panels (not pictured) and holes in the supports for wiring when I finalize a layout and start the landscaping.
















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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Oh, on the mismatched couplers, I bought a few cars on Ebay and knew the couplers were wrong. I wanted the cars because they were the correct covered hoppers with the company logo of where I worked many years ago, Hercules Chemical. I ordered some MicroTrains trucks to replace the couplers on these and a few box cars I bought that weren't rolling well along with a couple of Bachman tankers my son bought me. After the swap everything hooked up and rolled good as they should have. Was a bit expensive but now I have the best (IMHO) rollers being pulled by the best (Kato locos)


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## Aqualungs

clovissangrail01 said:


> Nice pictures. Here's mine. I put two of those sets together and added some additional Kato hoppers --
> 
> Be careful about buying rolling stock on eBay. Your equipment is all Kato, and Kato couplers don't want to work with anything but other Kato couplers. You'll have to do some coupler conversions if you don't get Kato rolling stock. (I have a string of of nice boxcars sitting in their boxes because I learned this the hard way.)
> 
> View attachment 553279


Would it be tacky if I did this with my Blue Bonnet and a bought a yellow Red Bonnet set? Or should the engines be the same color? I'm thinking same color lol

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Have a Blue and a Red or izzit Yellow. Run em all or run one with the other parked. It's your train, you can do whatever you want


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## QueenoftheGN

Aqualungs said:


> Would it be tacky if I did this with my Blue Bonnet and a bought a yellow Red Bonnet set? Or should the engines be the same color? I'm thinking same color lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Run them however you feel like, they're your engines.


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## Aqualungs

Can't argue with that... lol. Modeltrainstuff got some of my wishlist back in stock and I sold 3 firearms I can't/have no business shooting anymore. Diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis 2 weeks ago. I also have Ehlers Danlos syndrome. I'm only 43 but I have some fun left in me. This hobby will be therapeutic for sure.
So I am pondering on getting Variation 3 and I will have a Yard and 2 spurs. This is the cheaper option, or go with the V2 and V1. This will give me a sweet overpass and 2 spurs or 1 small yard. BTW ate there any issues with clearance on the viaduct kit. I read somewhere their trains were rubbing and I can't recall the source. 
All originally was following this setup until I started having fun with spurs. So I think both can be had. My table is just 2" thinner so I could use 2 shorter pieces on the width.










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## Aqualungs

I totally get now what Wookie meant about the #4 turnouts in the V4 set. I should have gotten the V1 with the #6s. So I take it, it would be best to have a #6 off the mainline and then use the #4s for a yard? 


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Wooky I stumbled on a thread a day before MB Klein filled my order and was worried. They have been ok so far. I had 2 or 3 derailment but I agree and going with #6 in the future. I think they are even cheaper!? I looked at rhe yard variation pack and it has #6s. I can make a small yard with the 4s like you suggested
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

The Kato Unitrack # 4 turnout can be modified to reduce the possibility of derailments. Mike Fifer of Fifer model supply, has a good video on this modification. He cuts a notch in one stock rail to let the point rail fit into it. Good idea. most turnouts come with this notch in both stock rails , not just one. I recommend notching both rails too. I do this when I build my own turnouts. The file below "Improving Atlas turnouts shows photos of this notch being added. The same thing can be done to a Kato # 4 or any turnout, not just Atlas.

One other thing about # 4 turnouts, whether Kato, or any other brand, they are very sharp, and don't always play nice with big locomotives, or long cars. If you run 6 axle modern diesels or steam locomotives with more than six drivers, # 4s may not work well. Try your own rolling stock and test things for yourself. Maybe you won't have the problem. The photo shows two # 8 turnouts forming a crossover, and a single # 4 at the lower right. You can see the difference in how sharply, and quickly the two routes diverge from each other on the # 4 vs. the # 8.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

Hey guys I think Ihave my order ready. I decided to get the V3 yard, V7 Crossover, and V6 outer oval. Iwill hold off on the viaduct, as Ithink when I expand the table it would be a good leadout to each end. This would give a nice illusion to travelling out of the center town or what ever it is lol. This will give me a nice yard for when I order an extra F7 freight set, I have my eyes on the yellow Union Pacific, so I can add the yellow passenger cars later. 
I also will have to spurs to park and drop off/pickup. This will give me loop fun, to sit back and watch, can run three trains, and I can have some yard/spur fun.

What do you guys think, and any suggestions?

Sould I still get foam board for the top, even though I'm no where set on a permanent layout?

Thanks all!


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## clovissangrail01

Santa Fe Bluebonnets and Yellowbonnets are both EMD F7 Warbonnet passenger units that Santa Fe repainted in the early 70s after they transferred all of their passenger service to ;Amtrak. That Warbonnet look was probably the most well-known passenger livery going, and the railroad did not want to use it for freight service, so they repainted.

There were only a few Bluebonnets painted. I believe they were replaced by the Yelowbonnets because Yellowbonnets were cheaper to paint.

Since they come from the same time period, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a train pulled by both.

So if you want to mix them, go for it. You can now because Kato released Yellowbonnet F7s last year.

They weren't used for passenger trains, but that doesn't stop me from putting two F7A Bluebonnets pulling some Santa Fe coaches just because it looks cool.

Santa Fe had a ton of those aging F7 passenger units when Amtrak took over passenger service. Santa Fe leased a bunch to Amtrak, but they also refurbished and converted over 200 of them into CF7 units, for which they switched the 'covered wagon' F units into GP hood-style bodies for road switching.


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## Aqualungs

clovissangrail01 said:


> Santa Fe Bluebonnets and Yellowbonnets are both EMD F7 Warbonnet passenger units that Santa Fe repainted in the early 70s after they transferred all of their passenger service to ;Amtrak. That Warbonnet look was probably the most well-known passenger livery going, and the railroad did not want to use it for freight service, so they repainted.
> 
> There were only a few Bluebonnets painted. I believe they were replaced by the Yelowbonnets because Yellowbonnets were cheaper to paint.
> 
> Since they come from the same time period, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a train pulled by both.
> 
> So if you want to mix them, go for it. You can now because Kato released Yellowbonnet F7s last year.
> 
> They weren't used for passenger trains, but that doesn't stop me from putting two F7A Bluebonnets pulling some Santa Fe coaches just because it looks cool.
> 
> Santa Fe had a ton of those aging F7 passenger units when Amtrak took over passenger service. Santa Fe leased a bunch to Amtrak, but they also refurbished and converted over 200 of them into CF7 units, for which they switched the 'covered wagon' F units into GP hood-style bodies for road switching.


Good to know, and ironic! MB Klein had the F7a Yellow for 55$ on sale and with 10% off  So I picked that up with the Variation sets. 








Kato N 1762140 EMD F7A, Santa Fe #330


Kato N 1762140 EMD F7A, Santa Fe #330




www.modeltrainstuff.com




I plan to buy the F7 Yellow engine Freight set for 89 when it comes back in stock. 








Kato N 1066272 Union Pacific EMD F7 Freight Train Set


Kato N 1066272 Union Pacific EMD F7 freight train set includes a Union Pacific EMD F7A locomotive #1464, two Southern Pacific ACF 70 ton covered hoppers #90602 and 90801, a UTLX tank car #6996, and an AT&SF cupola caboose #UP 25214.




www.modeltrainstuff.com




The yellow loco has silver trucks so I can pick up the Yellow Union Pacific 7 car set Iwant later on when I save some more pennies. That will give me 4 engines, 2 sets of freight roling stock, and 2 sets of passenger cars. 








Kato N 106086 Excursion Train 7-Car Set, Union Pacific


Train Set includes:Power Car #207Budd 10-6 Sleeper #202 "Willie James"Museum Car #5779 "Promontory"Dome Coach #7001 "Colombine"Coach #5473 "Portland Rose"Dome Diner #8008 "City of Portland"Business Car #119 "Kenefick"The UP is the largest railroad in the United States and traces its history back...




www.modeltrainstuff.com





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## clovissangrail01

Here -- a nice 8-car collection of Kato covered hoppers -- N-Scale ACF 70 ton Closed Side Hoppers: Precision Railroad Models

You can get it on Amazon for about 30 bucks off list, and no need to change out couplers.

Combine these with all the hopper cars in your freight sets, which always have two hopper cars, and you have a nice unit train of hopper cars to take to the grain elevator.


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## Aqualungs

clovissangrail01 said:


> Here -- a nice 8-car collection of Kato covered hoppers -- N-Scale ACF 70 ton Closed Side Hoppers: Precision Railroad Models
> 
> You can get it on Amazon for about 30 bucks off list, and no need to change out couplers.
> 
> Combine these with all the hopper cars in your freight sets, which always have two hopper cars, and you have a nice unit train of hopper cars to take to the grain elevator.


I really dig this set, too



https://www.amazon.com/Kato-KAT1066275-Mixed-Freight-Car/dp/B004UXXQXQ



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## clovissangrail01

Nice. Good price, too.

And you'll like not having to fiddle around with coupler changes.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

On the foam, I wanted to get 2 4X8X2 foam boards for the base and use the extra 4X4 piece to start the hills / mountain. Depot was out that day (even though website said they had several) SO I ended up getting the 3/4 inch foam (3 sheets) and so far 8 of the 2X2X1 project foam boards for the terrain. A razor knife and a foam rasp to cut and shape (I fit the rasp to a vacuum here to cut down on a lot of the "pink snow"


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## Chaostrain

Your layout is looking good. May I suggest that since you are planning on extending the benchwork that you plan and install the switches and exit track before working on the scenery? Save you from having to tear up and redo anything.


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## Aqualungs

Chaostrain said:


> Your layout is looking good. May I suggest that since you are planning on extending the benchwork that you plan and install the switches and exit track before working on the scenery? Save you from having to tear up and redo anything.


For sure! I figure I'll take my time and have fun. Learn how the railroad works and change the layout to my hearts content. I would like to collect track and locomotives and rolling stock. I figure the right layout will come with time and then I can start finalizing a layout and start scenery

Which actually leads me to my next question, can anyone suggest a user friendly track software. I've been drawing and scribbling and would like to try software..
Also I have my eye on a B unit that will look nice with my yellow and blue bonnet. For 49$ what you guys think?

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## Aqualungs

Kato N 1762215 EMD F7B, Santa Fe


An F7B from Kato to pair with your F7A for hauling freight or passenger cars across your layout.




www.modeltrainstuff.com





Read up on some history on them. An ABA option would look pretty kewl

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> For sure! I figure I'll take my time and have fun. Learn how the railroad works and change the layout to my hearts content. I would like to collect track and locomotives and rolling stock. I figure the right layout will come with time and then I can start finalizing a layout and start scenery
> 
> Which actually leads me to my next question, can anyone suggest a user friendly track software. I've been drawing and scribbling and would like to try software..
> Also I have my eye on a B unit that will look nice with my yellow and blue bonnet. For 49$ what you guys think?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqalungs;

If that 'B'-unit is powered, then $49 is a decent price, depending somewhat on what brand the model B-unit is. In my opinion, $49, (or 49 cents) for a Bachmann, is a bad deal, However $49 for a Kato is a very good deal indeed. $49 for a dummy (unpowered) B-unit is a major ripoff.
I'll leave the software recommendation to those who actually use digital software. I'm an old analog geezer, so my idea of "track planning software" is a soft #2 lead pencil and a big soft sheet of paper. 😄 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqalungs;
> 
> If that 'B'-unit is powered, then $49 is a decent price, depending somewhat on what brand the model B-unit is. In my opinion, $49, (or 49 cents) for a Bachmann, is a bad deal, However $49 for a Kato is a very good deal indeed. $49 for a dummy (unpowered) B-unit is a major ripoff.
> I'll leave the software recommendation to those who actually use digital software. I'm an old analog geezer, so my idea of "track planning software" is a soft #2 lead pencil and a big soft sheet of paper.
> 
> Traction Fan


It is Kato and it comes in DCC version also, so I am guessing it's powered. Hard to tell from the description but buyer reviews suggest it's powered. 

As for the pencil and eraser I get it lol! I love drawing but sometimes I have to wear thumb braces due to thumb dislocations so I don't do as much drawing anymore. Lol. 

Thanks for the help!

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Kato N 1762215 EMD F7B, Santa Fe
> 
> 
> An F7B from Kato to pair with your F7A for hauling freight or passenger cars across your layout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modeltrainstuff.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read up on some history on them. An ABA option would look pretty kewl
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Yes, that is a powered Kato B-unit which is a very good loco (I have several) at a very good price. The price quoted by model train stuff (when I clicked "add to cart" was $54.99 not $49, but it's still good for a loco that retails for $85. Do you understand that "DCC ready" means a DC loco, to which you can easily (usually plug in) a DCC decoder which you have to buy separately. A "DCC ready" Loco does NOT come with a DCC decoder factory installed.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Yes, that is a powered Kato B-unit which is a very good loco (I have several) at a very good price. The price quoted by model train stuff (when I clicked "add to cart" was $54.99 not $49, but it's still good for a loco that retails for $85. Do you understand that "DCC ready" means a DC loco, to which you can easily (usually plug in) a DCC decoder which you have to buy separately. A "DCC ready" Loco does NOT come with a DCC decoder factory installed.
> 
> Traction Fan


They have a 10% coupon code to apply at checkout. Little more pennies lol.
Yea I think eventually I would go dcc and have to add the chips, which I'm ok with. I will probably get dcc equipped to save the trouble if the price is right. 

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> They have a 10% coupon code to apply at checkout. Little more pennies lol.
> Yea I think eventually I would go dcc and have to add the chips, which I'm ok with. I will probably get dcc equipped to save the trouble if the price is right.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Sounds like a good plan, unless you want sound with your DCC. In that case it might be better to buy the unit with DCC & sound installed. The sound requires a speaker as well as the decoder, and mounting a speaker in a loco that is filled with metal weight is a challenge. It's possible that Kato has pre-cut the speaker cavity in their "DCC ready locomotives, but I don't know. I put an MRC sound decoder in a Kato F7 A-unit and was very disappointed with the low sound level. I ended up mounting a bigger speaker in a dummy B-unit and connecting it to the decoder in the A-unit.

things to consider;

Traction Fan 😕


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Sounds like a good plan, unless you want sound with your DCC. In that case it might be better to buy the unit with DCC & sound installed. The sound requires a speaker as well as the decoder, and mounting a speaker in a loco that is filled with metal weight is a challenge. It's possible that Kato has pre-cut the speaker cavity in their "DCC ready locomotives, but I don't know. I put an MRC sound decoder in a Kato F7 A-unit and was very disappointed with the low sound level. I ended up mounting a bigger speaker in a dummy B-unit and connecting it to the decoder in the A-unit.
> 
> things to consider;
> 
> Traction Fan


That is very helpful! I am intrigued by the sound, and at least want DCC control to stop engines while running others. I think future locomotives will be DCC & Sound. With them.being 4x the amount of DCC ready I figure start with DC. Starting out I had no idea what DCC was?? I know Kato has the separate sound module but probably not as neato as sound in the locomotives. 
For now I guess I am stuck with DC for now so I can have some fun. At least I have DCC ready for when I switch controllers. Sound I will at least try it, but thank you for the heads up. I am saving for the Silver Streak Zephyr, ans I'm thinking I'll get the dcc plus sound for all the future ones. I may hold off on the B unit and get a B unit with sound and run an ABA combo and just upgrade to DCC Chips in the A unit? 
Thank you again!
Marty

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> That is very helpful! I am intrigued by the sound, and at least want DCC control to stop engines while running others. I think future locomotives will be DCC & Sound. With them.being 4x the amount of DCC ready I figure start with DC. Starting out I had no idea what DCC was?? I know Kato has the separate sound module but probably not as neato as sound in the locomotives.
> For now I guess I am stuck with DC for now so I can have some fun. At least I have DCC ready for when I switch controllers. Sound I will at least try it, but thank you for the heads up. I am saving for the Silver Streak Zephyr, ans I'm thinking I'll get the dcc plus sound for all the future ones. I may hold off on the B unit and get a B unit with sound and run an ABA combo and just upgrade to DCC Chips in the A unit?
> Thank you again!
> Marty
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Your A-B-A locomotive consist needs to be either all DC or all DCC. It's not a good idea, to put it mildly, to run both DC and DCC locomotives on the layout at the same time. You risk damage to a locomotive or possibly your DCC controller. Many current production locomotives have the ability to run on either DCC or DC. The key words there are ""either or" but not both simultaneously. What you can do is to look around for a dummy B-unit. I don't think Kato makes any unpowered locomotives, but this is one situation where an old Bachmann, or Lifelike, clunker will do fine. All you need is a frame with wheels under it and an empty shell on top. If it's painted in Santa Fe silver & red war bonnet, so much the better, but you could also repaint it. That way one, or both, A-units can be powered Katos and they can have sound in one, or both, as you choose. If you find the sound is loud enough then you're done. If not, you can do what I did and mount a better speaker in the empty B-unit to provide sound for the whole consist. Unless you are pulling 50 car+ trains or have very steep grades, you don't need the combined pulling power of three powered units anyway. A dummy B-unit in those cheap brands shouldn't cost more than $10. The "separate sound module" is not a bad idea. It will actually provide better sound than sound aboard the locomotive, because it uses big speakers. The sound won't be synchronized with train movement unless you use a Digitrax DCC system. Some company, possibly Kato, makes a system with multiple speakers spaced around the layout. It changes the volume from each speaker as the train moves around,, but it only communicates with Digitrax brand DCC decoders and maybe only with their controllers as well, I'm not sure. The system costs a small fortune, so I can't afford it, and I use NCE DCC also. I have in mind building a poor man's version, less sophisticated, but less costly too.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

That makes sense. I guess I meant when I upgrade to DCC controller I would upgrade the DCC ready locos. But I see what your saying "while running DC currently, do not buy DCC loco, and run it with rhe DC powerpack and DC locos."


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> That makes sense. I guess I meant when I upgrade to DCC controller I would upgrade the DCC ready locos. But I see what your saying "while running DC currently, do not buy DCC loco, and run it with rhe DC powerpack and DC locos."
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

The key words in your response above are the last three, "and DC locos."

If you buy a new DCC loco, equipped with a dual-mode decoder, that can run on DCC or DC. You could safely run that type of locomotive with your DC power pack, or with a DCC controller. Hence, "Dual mode decoder." Many new production locomotive have this capability and the directions packed with the locomotive, and perhaps the advertising, will say so, if it does.

However, a DC, or "DCC ready" locomotive, (which is, electrically, still a DC locomotive until you convert it to a DCC locomotive by installing a DCC decoder in it.) can be seriously damaged if you put it on a track that is being run with DCC.

Likewise, it's not good to put a locomotive with an older DCC decoder in it, that is designed to run only on DCC (and not on DC) onto a track with DC in it.

The two control systems, DC and DCC, put different voltages into the rails. DC uses plain old fashioned DC current, like your car battery puts out.
DCC uses a form of AC current similar to that used to power Lionel three-rail layouts. The AC current from a DCC controller carries digital signals on it. It's about 14-16 volts of AC and will cause a DC motor to try running forward then backward, then forward again, every tiny fraction of a second. This has about the same effect on a DC locomotive's motor as you might get by shifting your moving car's transmission from "drive" to "reverse" and then back to "drive", as fast as you could move the shift lever. It can destroy it!  

There is an excellent book on DCC available. It's "Basic DCC wiring" by Mike Polsgrove. It explains how DCC works and the differences between DCC, and traditional DC, control. It also shows how to convert DC locomotives to DCC by installing decoders in them, and many other DCC related topics. You can order a copy from www.amazon.com.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

Ok so my original thinking was correct. I just wasn't careful with terminology. All my 3 locos are DCC ready. When the time comes to get a DCC controller I planned on adding the decoder chips to the locos. 
Thanks again for all the help, I will check out that info.

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## Aqualungs

Spent some time watching and reading more on DCC. I really like the Digitrax DS52 Zephyr Express and decoders without sound look super easy to install. Future trains I may get them sound. so cool. 
I like that I can hook up 2 extra controllers for me and my nephew to control the trains separately. 3amps for N scale sboyld be plenty. Also being able to program turnouts, I love to wire, and I like that I don't have to hold the unit. Clumsy hands sometimes and arthritis. It's a good price and DCC chips are 20ish. Not too shabby! Saving my pennies lol. 9 hours of overtime last week and 3 so far this week. 

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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Spent some time watching and reading more on DCC. I really like the Digitrax DS52 Zephyr Express and decoders without sound look super easy to install. Future trains I may get them sound. so cool.
> I like that I can hook up 2 extra controllers for me and my nephew to control the trains separately. 3amps for N scale sboyld be plenty. Also being able to program turnouts, I love to wire, and I like that I don't have to hold the unit. Clumsy hands sometimes and arthritis. It's a good price and DCC chips are 20ish. Not too shabby! Saving my pennies lol. 9 hours of overtime last week and 3 so far this week.


I like the Zephyr and would not hesitate to recommend it. I just wanted to alert you to one potential problem that other systems do not have. As a beginner, the Zephyr behaved how I expected by emulating the DC power pack. It has a throttle dial that is set like the dial on the DC power pack, where zero throttle is a fixed point and full throttle is another fixed point and it swings between these two to give the throttle setting. It also has a lever that is moved to indicate forward or reverse. This means that as you switch locomotives you are controlling, the new engine is automatically set to the position of the throttle. This means that if you have locomotive A running at 50% throttle and switch to locomotive B and get it up to 80%, when you switch back to A, it will be told to accelerate to 80%. This is not a problem if the two are not running on the same track, but if you were trying to run them on the same rail, it could cause collisions. Both I and Stejones82 just experienced it and were discussing it in a thread. I only found out there that the higher end DCC throttles do not behave like this and use the dial as an electronic device with no fixed end points. This lets the throttle remember what the first train was doing and resume that setting when you switch back to it, even if the dial had been moved.

As I said though, the Zephyr works well and I am satisfied with it. But I am looking forward to adding more throttles that do not behave this way.


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## Aqualungs

Good info! I will have 3 track rounds for now and 3 DCC ready locomotives for now. So with the speed issue, if I switch one of the locomotives to throttle with the Kato SX DC power pack and the other with the Zephyr, does that help with running them on the same track and controlling their speed to avoid a collision? I could see how after a while that would limit your capabilities. Just as a suggestion what unit would be the next step up with better throttle?
Also the units I'm upgrading are:

2 - EMD F7 A DCC ready locos. Are these the correct chips?








Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)


Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)




www.modeltrainstuff.com





1 - F40 PH








Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos


Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos




www.modeltrainstuff.com





Also,the Zephyr suggests you can run a DC locomotive and assign it? Is that saying I can run 2 DCC locomotives and 1 DCC ready (DC) at the same time?




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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Good info! I will have 3 track rounds for now and 3 DCC ready locomotives for now. So with the speed issue, if I switch one of the locomotives to throttle with the Kato SX DC power pack and the other with the Zephyr, does that help with running them on the same track and controlling their speed to avoid a collision? I could see how after a while that would limit your capabilities. Just as a suggestion what unit would be the next step up with better throttle?
> Also the units I'm upgrading are:
> 
> 2 - EMD F7 A DCC ready locos. Are these the correct chips?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modeltrainstuff.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 - F40 PH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modeltrainstuff.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also,the Zephyr suggests you can run a DC locomotive and assign it? Is that saying I can run 2 DCC locomotives and 1 DCC ready (DC) at the same time?


I do not know which decoders to use. I bought all of my locomotives except one with DCC decoders already. For the one that did not have it, and one that did, I took them to my LHS to be upgraded to sound. The store recommended (and had in stock) Tsunami 2 DCC decoders with speakers. I kind of looked at the had in stock affecting their recommendation, but decided they also had it in stock because it worked and they liked it so not too much of a decision.

But as to your other question, that is exactly what I did and one of the big advantages of the Zephyr. I had started with two ovals of track and two of the SX DC power packs. The Zephyr lets me plug them in as spare throttles in their jump throttle port. I will keep them because I can let my granddaughters use them while I use the Zephyr. The girls can keep control of the speed and direction of the trains they are assigned without me having to closely watch what they are doing. I was told that the Zephyr will even let you program in a limit to the speed for the jump throttles to keep it from going to fast for the track (almost like someone there thought about my situation). If you take control of one of the trains that the jump throttle was controlling, it will still change to whatever the Zephyr throttle setting is as it gets the change though.

The Zephyr will let you run one non-DCC train by using the address 00 for it. I did this with that one locomotive but was not happy with the performance (it was almost like I could not go more than half throttle - the LHS said this was because it only "read" half of the AC signal so it was effectively only getting half throttle). Many people here recommend that you not do this because of the potential damage to the electronics and motor in the DC locomotive. I recommend that when you get the Zephyr you upgrade all of the engines to DCC because of the performance if no other reason. I did not experience any damage personally, but I doubt I ran it for more than about 30 minutes before saying I did not like it and taking it off the tracks. I believe the experienced folks on the damage being possible too - it just makes sense to me.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I also have the Digitrax Zephyr DCC system and bought the Digitrax decoders for my 2 different locos. I had to fiddle a bit with one of the boards for the SD70ACe and had to solder the board on the E5 loco, I followed the video that Mike Fifer made concerning that exact model. The SD70 was simply wedging a sliver of foam under the front edge of the board to make a good contact

I like the Digitrax throttle set up and especially the readout on the screen that tells how much power is being used, 25% seems plenty fast for me as I don't have any bullet trains. I wasn't aware that my "old" (1 year old) DC control could be used as a throttle, something I'll have to look into as I now have 3 tracks and potentially 3 trains but most likely keep the SD70s pulling one train


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## Aqualungs

Right! I would rather pay another 25$ for a decoder lol. I would like sound but not as important as control. I started into this, like many probably do thinking of just putting a train on a round circle and letting it go. I thought adding a second track and train was the bees knees, thinking I wouldn't want a yard. Now I have a yard on the way and will have 2 spurs, lol. 
I like the idea of sound but not sure if you add it into these chips or what chip get thst comes with sound. As long as it isn't crazy soldering I don't mind.
Control wirh DCC vs DC is most important at this point. Also when my nephew comes over we can both have some fun.

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Good info! I will have 3 track rounds for now and 3 DCC ready locomotives for now. So with the speed issue, if I switch one of the locomotives to throttle with the Kato SX DC power pack and the other with the Zephyr, does that help with running them on the same track and controlling their speed to avoid a collision? I could see how after a while that would limit your capabilities. Just as a suggestion what unit would be the next step up with better throttle?
> Also the units I'm upgrading are:
> 
> 2 - EMD F7 A DCC ready locos. Are these the correct chips?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modeltrainstuff.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 - F40 PH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modeltrainstuff.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also,the Zephyr suggests you can run a DC locomotive and assign it? Is that saying I can run 2 DCC locomotives and 1 DCC ready (DC) at the same time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Looks good, a suggestion here, if you don't have any might be a good idea to get a roll of Kapton tape (the yellow tape that came with your decoder boards). I have a feeling that part of the decoder instructions with say something about applying some to the loco frame to insulate the board (the F7 looks similar to the board I installed on my E5 loco). You might also look up any videos by Mike Fifer on the F7 install, it might need a couple of short wires soldered to make a better power pickup as well as the flat motor pickups soldered to the board


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Good info! I will have 3 track rounds for now and 3 DCC ready locomotives for now. So with the speed issue, if I switch one of the locomotives to throttle with the Kato SX DC power pack and the other with the Zephyr, does that help with running them on the same track and controlling their speed to avoid a collision? I could see how after a while that would limit your capabilities. Just as a suggestion what unit would be the next step up with better throttle?
> Also the units I'm upgrading are:
> 
> 2 - EMD F7 A DCC ready locos. Are these the correct chips?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0B DCC Plug-N-Play Mobile Decoder for Kato N F3, F7 A/B Units (6 FX3 Functions, 0.5 Amp)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modeltrainstuff.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 - F40 PH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos
> 
> 
> Digitrax N DN163K0D Plug-N-Play Decoder for Kato F40PH and Other Locos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.modeltrainstuff.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also,the Zephyr suggests you can run a DC locomotive and assign it? Is that saying I can run 2 DCC locomotives and 1 DCC ready (DC) at the same time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

You're back to running DC and DCC again. That is a bad idea, even is the DC loco and the DCC loco are on different tracks. Murphy's law says that , sooner or later, you will accidentally put a loco on the wrong track and damage it. The best, and safest, thing is to pick ONE control system, either DC or DCC, and control all locomotives with that one system. 

A fairly safe compromise, for someone who has a lot of DC locomotives, and some DCC locos, like me, is to use a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) toggle switch with the layout's power feed bus wires on the center pair of terminals, the DC power pack's "track" output wires on one end of the switch, and the output wires from the DCC controller on the other end. That way you can switch the entire layout to operate on EITHER DC OR DCC, but never have both connected to any tracks at the same time.

If you only have your three DCC ready locos, I would just run them on DC until you have decided on a DCC system, and then convert them all to DCC at once. With plug-in decoders that should be pretty easy. I advise you to do your DCC conversion soon, while you still have few locomotive to convert. Don't wait until you have dozens like I did. 😕

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> You're back to running DC and DCC again. That is a bad idea, even is the DC loco and the DCC loco are on different tracks. Murphy's law says that , sooner or later, you will accidentally put a loco on the wrong track and damage it. The best, and safest, thing is to pick ONE control system, either DC or DCC, and control all locomotives with that one system.
> 
> A fairly safe compromise, for someone who has a lot of DC locomotives, and some DCC locos, like me, is to use a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) toggle switch with the layout's power feed bus wires on the center pair of terminals, the DC power pack's "track" output wires on one end of the switch, and the output wires from the DCC controller on the other end. That way you can switch the entire layout to operate on EITHER DC OR DCC, but never have both connected to any tracks at the same time.
> 
> If you only have your three DCC ready locos, I would just run them on DC until you have decided on a DCC system, and then convert them all to DCC at once. With plug-in decoders that should be pretty easy. I advise you to do your DCC conversion soon, while you still have few locomotive to convert. Don't wait until you have dozens like I did.
> 
> Traction Fan


Right, totally understand that. We were discussing the Digitrax Zephyr's ability to use a DC power pack as a second throttle, letting me put a train on the 3rd loop for my nephew to control, until he learns turnout controls. The other thing was the Zephyr's "claimed" 's ability to run 1 DC locomotive under code 00, but Wookie and I discussed even though it says it can do it, probably not a good idea, and it makes sense why. Better to spend another 25$ on a decoder in my book.
Like you said I only have 3 DCC ready trains and they're easy to upgrade. I am just going to get some rolling stock and another variation kit or 2, and have fun with DC for a bit. Will give me more time with layouts, etc, and extra time to plan DCC.  
thanks again for taking the time to help out so much, Very much appreciated.

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## MichaelE

You cannot add sound later to a regular DCC decoder. It's either a sound decoder or it's not. If you decide on sound at a later time. you will have to purchase a new decoder that is a sound decoder.


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## Aqualungs

MichaelE said:


> You cannot add sound later to a regular DCC decoder. It's either a sound decoder or it's not. If you decide on sound at a later time. you will have to purchase a new decoder that is a sound decoder.


Thanks MichaelE. I saw some speakers had a jst like plug, so I was wondering about that. The only decoders thst they had at rhe store were Digitrax and didn't have speakers. 

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## Aqualungs

Was cleaning up and prepping rhe track for the new additions, when UPS came early. 









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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Thanks MichaelE. I saw some speakers had a jst like plug, so I was wondering about that. The only decoders thst they had at rhe store were Digitrax and didn't have speakers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

Sound decoders may, or may not, include speakers. My MRC "drop-in" decoder designed for a Kato F-unit that was not set up as "DCC ready" like yours, came with a tiny speaker mounted right on the decoder circuit board. Since that speaker later proved all-but-useless for this half-deaf old fart, I installed a bigger speaker in a dummy B-unit as already mentioned.
Other decoders are designed to work with an external speaker that needs to be mounted elsewhere inside the locomotive. Since nearly all N-scale, and some HO-scale, locomotives are filled wall-to-wall, & floor-to-ceiling, with a giant weight/drive, finding this "elsewhere" can be a major challenge! Kato is a very good And clever, company, and they may have included a cavity, and possibly even a speaker, in their "DCC ready" locomotives. You might want to pull the shell off one of yours and look.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> Sound decoders may, or may not, include speakers. My MRC "drop-in" decoder designed for a Kato F-unit that was not set up as "DCC ready" like yours, came with a tiny speaker mounted right on the decoder circuit board. Since that speaker later proved all-but-useless for this half-deaf old fart, I installed a bigger speaker in a dummy B-unit as already mentioned.
> Other decoders are designed to work with an external speaker that needs to be mounted elsewhere inside the locomotive. Since nearly all N-scale, and some HO-scale, locomotives are filled wall-to-wall, & floor-to-ceiling, with a giant weight/drive, finding this "elsewhere" can be a major challenge! Kato is a very good And clever, company, and they may have included a cavity, and possibly even a speaker, in their "DCC ready" locomotives. You might want to pull the shell off one of yours and look.
> 
> Good Luck & Have Fun;
> 
> Traction Fan


Good to know, I'll have to look. I was wondering about even DCC installed Kato locomotives shopping around, they didn't advertise them as having sound?

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## Aqualungs

Here is what I came up with for meow. I may put that outer spur back on the inside. Ordering my freight rolling stock and think I am going to add the viaduct variation for a little more variety. I plan to expand to an L table, so the outer track and viaduct can form a longer outer track thats not a circle. Then I can move that outside spur to the center expansion.









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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Was cleaning up and prepping rhe track for the new additions, when UPS came early.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Like a kid at Christmas LOL. I too got the Outer Oval set and the double crossover and used them on the new layout as outer loop and switch over on the double track


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Here is what I came up with for meow. I may put that outer spur back on the inside. Ordering my freight rolling stock and think I am going to add the viaduct variation for a little more variety. I plan to expand to an L table, so the outer track and viaduct can form a longer outer track thats not a circle. Then I can move that outside spur to the center expansion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

" Here's what you came up with for meow?" That layout is one heck of an expensive cat box! 😄 Just kidding of course, I figure you meant "for now." rather than "meow."
You may be discovering for yourself, what all of us have, at one time or another. Layouts tend to fill up with track, track, and more track, quite quickly. That's not necessarily a bad thig. There are two schools of thought.
One group wants as much track, and as many loops, as possible, in order to watch lots of trains in motion at once.
The others are trying to build something realistic enough to give the impression of a real railroad. This usually involves less track, and half the loop (s) hidden behind scenery or backdrops so it's not so obvious that the trains are going around in circles. There's no "rules" about this, or anything else in this hobby. Nearly every model railroader starts out with some sort of multi-loop track arrangement. Although I am now firmly in the latter, realistic group, and my layout is built with no visible loops, It was not always so. Early on, I had multiple loops too.
Enjoy what you have, and as you go along, what you want from your railroad will probably change, or maybe not.

Locomotives these days often come in three different versions, at three different prices. DC (or "DCC ready") at the lowest price, DCC onboard, which is commonly a basic "motor & lights only" type of DCC decoder, and DCC with sound, which is the most expensive of the three. If the ad you saw said " DCC", but didn't mention sound, then that loco probably has basic DCC for control of the motor and lights, but no sound. Sound is a selling feature, so ads typically mention it.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> " Here's what you came up with for meow?" That layout is one heck of an expensive cat box!  Just kidding of course, I figure you meant "for now." rather than "meow."
> You may be discovering for yourself, what all of us have, at one time or another. Layouts tend to fill up with track, track, and more track, quite quickly. That's not necessarily a bad thig. There are two schools of thought.
> One group wants as much track, and as many loops, as possible, in order to watch lots of trains in motion at once.
> The others are trying to build something realistic enough to give the impression of a real railroad. This usually involves less track, and half the loop (s) hidden behind scenery or backdrops so it's not so obvious that the trains are going around in circles. There's no "rules" about this, or anything else in this hobby. Nearly every model railroader starts out with some sort of multi-loop track arrangement. Although I am now firmly in the latter, realistic group, and my layout is built with no visible loops, It was not always so. Early on, I had multiple loops too.
> Enjoy what you have, and as you go along, what you want from your railroad will probably change, or maybe not.
> 
> Locomotives these days often come in three different versions, at three different prices. DC (or "DCC ready") at the lowest price, DCC onboard, which is commonly a basic "motor & lights only" type of DCC decoder, and DCC with sound, which is the most expensive of the three. If the ad you saw said " DCC", but didn't mention sound, then that loco probably has basic DCC for control of the motor and lights, but no sound. Sound is a selling feature, so ads typically mention it.
> 
> Traction Fan


 Yea I'm gonna put on the brakes after the viaduct kit gets here. I have alot to work with and am having fun and fiddling. I had a good chuckle with the yard once I got to the 3rd turnout.. 
I think eventually I will end up with an imaginary/realistic layout. 1 big main loop and another smaller loop, but like you said would like to break it up with landscape and more realistic. Once I get a good idea of railroad and more of how things work, I will get some foam board, drill holes to hide wires and start getting more serious, and less ridiculous! 
Going to home depot so I can finish building the base and start on the other section of 28" to 30" x 6 feet. 
I started working with Anyrail.. like virtual Legos! 
I changed the #2 spur to be straighter. I scattered my rolling stock around to pick them all up. New locomotive is nice, I like it. I am watching out for another passenger train set or car set.
















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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Good to know, I'll have to look. I was wondering about even DCC installed Kato locomotives shopping around, they didn't advertise them as having sound?


From my experience, the Kato locos advertised with DCC are not with any for of sound. You have to buy a new decoder with a sound system and speaker to get sound. Kato does have some with sound already. Where possible, I will be buying them in the future (I like the idea of sound on all of my locos). If the loco I want is not sound equipped, I will probably buy the DC version instead of the DCC since it is cheaper. Then when I buy the new sound equipped decoder, I am right at the price of the Kato sound equipped price. 

As a matter of fact, I did that this weekend. I ordered a new ES44ACe from Kato through my LHS. We were looking at them and they have the engine available right now with DC or DCC. But they have announced the sound equipped version to be delivered in July. After comparing the prices and the work, I decided to pre-order the engine and just wait for it to come in. I don't have the rest of the cars for it yet anyway. It will be to go with the Big Boy excursion train. They had an ES44ACe on it when it went through San Antonio in 2019 (I think). I am going to get the Big Boy next, but I am waiting to see if the rumors pan out about Kato making one. I might get impatient and see if I can find/order the Athearn version anyway. Out to be a nice train when I get it all done. Kato cars with interior lighting installed, both water tenders with lights added to them also, the assist engine and the Big Boy.


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## traction fan

Steve Rothstein said:


> From my experience, the Kato locos advertised with DCC are not with any for of sound. You have to buy a new decoder with a sound system and speaker to get sound. Kato does have some with sound already. Where possible, I will be buying them in the future (I like the idea of sound on all of my locos). If the loco I want is not sound equipped, I will probably buy the DC version instead of the DCC since it is cheaper. Then when I buy the new sound equipped decoder, I am right at the price of the Kato sound equipped price.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I did that this weekend. I ordered a new ES44ACe from Kato through my LHS. We were looking at them and they have the engine available right now with DC or DCC. But they have announced the sound equipped version to be delivered in July. After comparing the prices and the work, I decided to pre-order the engine and just wait for it to come in. I don't have the rest of the cars for it yet anyway. It will be to go with the Big Boy excursion train. They had an ES44ACe on it when it went through San Antonio in 2019 (I think). I am going to get the Big Boy next, but I am waiting to see if the rumors pan out about Kato making one. I might get impatient and see if I can find/order the Athearn version anyway. Out to be a nice train when I get it all done. Kato cars with interior lighting installed, both water tenders with lights added to them also, the assist engine and the Big Boy.


Steve;

That sounds like a gorgeous, but mighty expensive, train. Post photos for us poor folk when you get that train all together. 😄 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Yea I'm gonna put on the brakes after the viaduct kit gets here. I have alot to work with and am having fun and fiddling. I had a good chuckle with the yard once I got to the 3rd turnout..
> I think eventually I will end up with an imaginary/realistic layout. 1 big main loop and another smaller loop, but like you said would like to break it up with landscape and more realistic. Once I get a good idea of railroad and more of how things work, I will get some foam board, drill holes to hide wires and start getting more serious, and less ridiculous!
> Going to home depot so I can finish building the base and start on the other section of 28" to 30" x 6 feet.
> I started working with Anyrail.. like virtual Legos!
> I changed the #2 spur to be straighter. I scattered my rolling stock around to pick them all up. New locomotive is nice, I like it. I am watching out for another passenger train set or car set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

I don't think your present layout is "ridiculous" at all. Many of my previous layouts looked the same. A whole lot of people on the forum, including most of the O-scale forum, have "unrealistic layouts." They don't care beans about that, and neither do I, or others. Each of us is free to build their layout however they choose. Your new locomotive looks great. 

Keep having fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Like a kid at Christmas LOL. I too got the Outer Oval set and the double crossover and used them on the new layout as outer loop and switch over on the double track


I was messing around with Anyrail software demo and got close. I have the viaduct variation on the way.. Can only use 50 pieces, so I messed with the viaduct connected to M1 oval (pictured). The V6 outer oval runs under the viaduct, and the V5 inner oval (not pictured) will fit inside the V6 or will do something else.. This is what I came out with less the inner oval, turnouts, crossings, etc. I plan to work 2 spurs and a small yard yard.
Almost fit lol 









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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I can't recall but what are the radius of the viaduct and V5 curves


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I can't recall but what are the radius of the viaduct and V5 curves


The viaduct is 45 degree 315mm, and the V5 has a 45 degree 282mm. V6 is 348mm and 45. The M1 seems to match up with the Viaduct at 315mm and 45 degree. I tried to Match up those in the picture 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Oh ok, I wouldn't go with any tighter curves than those unless you run short locos and cars on them. IIRC the 315mm is a 12 inch radius and is the smallest recommended for longer stock


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Oh ok, I wouldn't go with any tighter curves than those unless you run short locos and cars on them. IIRC the 315mm is a 12 inch radius and is the smallest recommended for longer stock


Definitely not. I almost got the double lane viaduct. I read somewhere someone had rub, but maybe he was using longer caes. 


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## CTValleyRR

Aqualungs said:


> I was messing around with Anyrail software demo and got close. I have the viaduct variation on the way.. Can only use 50 pieces, so I messed with the viaduct connected to M1 oval (pictured). The V6 outer oval runs under the viaduct, and the V5 inner oval (not pictured) will fit inside the V6 or will do something else.. This is what I came out with less the inner oval, turnouts, crossings, etc. I plan to work 2 spurs and a small yard yard.
> Almost fit lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Go ahead and pay for the full version. It's a bargain, and the 50 piece limit is crippling. I've used mine so much that my cost per hour is well under a penny!


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## Aqualungs

CTValleyRR said:


> Go ahead and pay for the full version. It's a bargain, and the 50 piece limit is crippling. I've used mine so much that my cost per hour is well under a penny!


It is a very fun and useful software! 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

It's what I used on my latest creation in progress


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## Aqualungs

What do you think of Scarm free, they seem to have 3d unitrack software. I may check that one out also, and try it out.

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I didn't try that one


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## clovissangrail01

Here's a SCARM track plan, plus a SCARM 3D shot, of a track plan on a 36 x 80 inch door.

That viaduct is not the 12-3/8 inch radius V2 curved track. It is 15-1/8 inch radius. Kato makes viaduct track in the same radii as its regular single-track Unitrack. It does use the piers from a V2, supplemented by an additional set of piers to make the grade easier.

Inner loop is 13-3/4 inch radius from a V6 outside loop track set, and the innermost loop on the right, which is the access track into the station, is 12-3/8 inch. Trains run the outer two loops, then pull onto the access track to back into the station, kind of like half of a wye. (Not enough room on a door for a full wye like in St.Louis, so had to settle for compression.)

Lots of #6 turnouts from a couple of V3 sets, plus a couple of double crossovers.

Long cars clear the 15-1/8 viaduct just fine.


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## Aqualungs

I really dig Scarm. In an hour I was up and running and have my current layout in. Very cool, and free! It's a keeper and the money I was gonna put in the software can go elsewhere











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## Aqualungs

Edit* you can buy the full version for 40$ with extra features. The free version is adequate for me, for now. 

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## Aqualungs

clovissangrail01 said:


> Here's a SCARM track plan, plus a SCARM 3D shot, of a track plan on a 36 x 80 inch door.
> 
> That viaduct is not the 12-3/8 inch radius V2 curved track. It is 15-1/8 inch radius. Kato makes viaduct track in the same radii as its regular single-track Unitrack. It does use the piers from a V2, supplemented by an additional set of piers to make the grade easier.
> 
> Inner loop is 13-3/4 inch radius from a V6 outside loop track set, and the innermost loop on the right, which is the access track into the station, is 12-3/8 inch. Trains run the outer two loops, then pull onto the access track to back into the station, kind of like half of a wye. (Not enough room on a door for a full wye like in St.Louis, so had to settle for compression.)
> 
> Lots of #6 turnouts from a couple of V3 sets, plus a couple of double crossovers.
> 
> Long cars clear the 15-1/8 viaduct just fine.
> 
> View attachment 553800
> 
> View attachment 553801


Perfect! I wanted to do a half loop on the viaduct like you did on the 3rd loop. Working on fitting the Viaduct in the existing layout. We shall see.
Gives me time to build the base for the table and the other section 

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> I was messing around with Anyrail software demo and got close. I have the viaduct variation on the way.. Can only use 50 pieces, so I messed with the viaduct connected to M1 oval (pictured). The V6 outer oval runs under the viaduct, and the V5 inner oval (not pictured) will fit inside the V6 or will do something else.. This is what I came out with less the inner oval, turnouts, crossings, etc. I plan to work 2 spurs and a small yard yard.
> Almost fit lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

Do you plan to add any crossovers, so trains can travel from one loop to the other?

I'll make a few suggestions for you to consider.

First, your track plan looks like the two loops could be combined into one long "twice around" main line. You could take the inner track at the lower center of your diagram, and instead of raising it, connect it to the outer loop track at the curve where it presently goes over the lower oval. The train would come down off the overpass in the center of your diagram, then go around the inner loop, and then connect to the curve on the extreme lower left and go back around to the viaduct at the center again. This would let you run one very long train, or ,if you added a pair of passing sidings, two trains either following each other (DC control) or two running in opposite directions, (using DCC control) and "meeting" (passing each other) at the sidings.

Second would be a step toward your idea of eventually having a more realistic track arrangement.
Make a "reversing loop" at the top, and another at the left end of your L-shaped table. These loops could be actual reversing loops where the train ends up going back in the opposite direction on the same single track, or the kind where the train goes back in the opposite direction on the other track of a double track mainline. In either case, the rest of your space could be devoted to a long, twisting, main line working it's way through mountainous scenery.

My third idea would maintain two separate loops and establish a quite realistic reason for the small yard you had in mind. Real railroads interchange freight, and sometimes passenger cars, from one railroad company's tracks to the other's. This often occurs at the point where, let's say, "Santa Fe's" track crosses "Union Pacific's". 
The crossing can be the "at grade" type where the two tracks cross each other at the same level, (see photo for an example) or the crossing could be via a bridge where one line crosses above the other. In either case, some track arrangement is needed to get the cars from Santa Fe's track onto Union Pacific's & vice versa.
This is usually in the form of a small yard where either company can drop off cars destined for the other, and pick up cars from the other railroad. This makes for interesting, and realistic, operation, and the trackage needed isn't all that different from what's shown in your diagram now.

Just some things to think about;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> Do you plan to add any crossovers, so trains can travel from one loop to the other?
> 
> I'll make a few suggestions for you to consider.
> 
> First, your track plan looks like the two loops could be combined into one long "twice around" main line. You could take the inner track at the lower center of your diagram, and instead of raising it, connect it to the outer loop track at the curve where it presently goes over the lower oval. The train would come down off the overpass in the center of your diagram, then go around the inner loop, and then connect to the curve on the extreme lower left and go back around to the viaduct at the center again. This would let you run one very long train, or ,if you added a pair of passing sidings, two trains either following each other (DC control) or two running in opposite directions, (using DCC control) and "meeting" (passing each other) at the sidings.
> 
> Second would be a step toward your idea of eventually having a more realistic track arrangement.
> Make a "reversing loop" at the top, and another at the left end of your L-shaped table. These loops could be actual reversing loops where the train ends up going back in the opposite direction on the same single track, or the kind where the train goes back in the opposite direction on the other track of a double track mainline. In either case, the rest of your space could be devoted to a long, twisting, main line working it's way through mountainous scenery.
> 
> My third idea would maintain two separate loops and establish a quite realistic reason for the small yard you had in mind. Real railroads interchange freight, and sometimes passenger cars, from one railroad company's tracks to the other's. This often occurs at the point where, let's say, "Santa Fe's" track crosses "Union Pacific's".
> The crossing can be the "at grade" type where the two tracks cross each other at the same level, (see photo for an example) or the crossing could be via a bridge where one line crosses above the other. In either case, some track arrangement is needed to get the cars from Santa Fe's track onto Union Pacific's & vice versa.
> This is usually in the form of a small yard where either company can drop off cars destined for the other, and pick up cars from the other railroad. This makes for interesting, and realistic, operation, and the trackage needed isn't all that different from what's shown in your diagram now.
> 
> Just some things to think about;
> 
> Traction Fan


Traction Fan, thank you! I like those ideas a lot!!

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## Aqualungs

So here's a layout I designed for when the Viaduct V2 kit arrives, and unit I build the table extension. I tried s couple different things with the outer oval curves to the viaduct to create some overlapping but wasn't successful yet. Not a huge deal and still have time to play around, but this will work also until I expand the table to an L


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Cool layout there Aqua. Something to be aware of, those double crossovers are like 4 turnouts in one and will use 4 times the power (which still isn't much but enough to likely trip the breaker on your DC controller when the train is running) My suggestion, and what I'm going to do when I wire mine in, is to get a separate 12VDC power source and run it through a DPDT momentary on / off / momentary on switch. I'll wire all my turnouts with them with down being straight through and up to the side track


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## clovissangrail01

I am running my Kato double crossovers off the trusty blue Kato power pack and have had no problems with the breaker throwing when the crossover is thrown. This is, however, with only a single train powered at any given time.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Mine was tripping if I had the power up about a third, lower than that (train crawling) it wouldn't trip and this was with both the Kato turnout switch and later the DPDT momentary on


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## Aqualungs

Aww bummer figures  To think I did another double crossover over two #6 turnouts so I only had 1 switch instead of 2 lol!!! I did notice a little loss of power so I imagine I am at the cusp! I will have to start looking into your suggestion sooner than later I guess.. grew too fast!
On a plus 3 magnetic decouplers arrived today.. just waiting on my freight car.









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## Aqualungs

clovissangrail01 said:


> I am running my Kato double crossovers off the trusty blue Kato power pack and have had no problems with the breaker throwing when the crossover is thrown. This is, however, with only a single train powered at any given time.


I had 3 trains going  I did notice the lights on the caboose dim a little when throwing the switch.

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> I had 3 trains going  I did notice the lights on the caboose dim a little when throwing the switch.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs & Wooky_cho_ Baca

You might look at the Stapleton 751D turnout controller. It has a built-in CDU to protect your Kato turnouts coils from burning out. The internal CDU also puts out a very powerful, but very brief, pulse which might help with those double crossovers. One problem is Kato's unique single-coil switch machine. It works on DC current reversal, which I don't think the 751D is capable of. However, with the popularity of Kato Unitrack it's possible that Stapleton has engineered a turnout controller to work with Kato turnouts. You might google them and check into it.

Update: Many thanks to Steve Rothstein for checking on the Stapleton control for Kato turnouts. As shown in his response below, it's the Stapleton 751K.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein

Stapleton has designed a controller for Kato track. You can see it by clicking here. I am planning on using these when I build a control panel because I like the LED indicators that show which way the track is set. Right now, all my turnouts are powered by the blue Kato power units, but the trains are all powered by the DCC so I should be okay on this. I have two of the crossovers that we are putting in this weekend.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Aww bummer figures  To think I did another double crossover over two #6 turnouts so I only had 1 switch instead of 2 lol!!! I did notice a little loss of power so I imagine I am at the cusp! I will have to start looking into your suggestion sooner than later I guess.. grew too fast!
> On a plus 3 magnetic decouplers arrived today.. just waiting on my freight car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


No, you did right, the double crossover will take up less space than two turnouts and you'll have one less switch to keep track of. Put the magnetic uncouplers on the sidings


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> No, you did right, the double crossover will take up less space than two turnouts and you'll have one less switch to keep track of. Put the magnetic uncouplers on the sidings


Awesome glad I was right in my thinking! 
Watched a YouTube video on the uncouplers, thought they'd be perfect for dropping off Cargo at the spurs. Hooked one up already. Pretty kewl!

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## Aqualungs

Was toying around with Scarm and made something similar and I think I like the Viaduct layout better. It crosses over track instead of nothing at all. This will give me time to save for more lumber, and time to design the L layout.









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## Aqualungs

Planned and sketched out a base diagram. Time to hit the depot!









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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Factor in some leg bracing so's it don't wobble or even collapse on ya. I did overkill on mine, probably could have gotten away with 1X4s


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> View attachment 554016
> Factor in some leg bracing so's it don't wobble or even collapse on ya. I did overkill on mine, probably could have gotten away with 1X4s


Definitely I like to overbuild lol. Once I get it together. Braces for sure. Thanks for the caster idea, I was close but was going to run a board across the bottom. Those caster mounts are pretty wide!

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## Steve Rothstein

I don't think ya'll understand the term "overbuilt" like I do. I did not put in leg bracing, but we used 4x4s for the legs and 2x4s for the frame everywhere, including a third brace in the center lengthwise. To make it easily portable, we put 2x4s in a small square to form a socket for the 4x4s to stick into. So far, I don't know if the 4x4s will work because it has been laying on top of a pool table since we framed it up. 

I did conceed and use only 1/4" plywood for the table top. My son thought it would be stiff enough for the weight of our layout and wanted to save a litt weight when we carry it.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> I don't think ya'll understand the term "overbuilt" like I do. I did not put in leg bracing, but we used 4x4s for the legs and 2x4s for the frame everywhere, including a third brace in the center lengthwise. To make it easily portable, we put 2x4s in a small square to form a socket for the 4x4s to stick into. So far, I don't know if the 4x4s will work because it has been laying on top of a pool table since we framed it up.
> 
> I did conceed and use only 1/4" plywood for the table top. My son thought it would be stiff enough for the weight of our layout and wanted to save a litt weight when we carry it.


Now we're getting into extremes of overbuilt lol! 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Steve Rothstein said:


> I don't think ya'll understand the term "overbuilt" like I do.
> 
> I did conceed and use only 1/4" plywood for the table top. My son thought it would be stiff enough for the weight of our layout and wanted to save a litt weight when we carry it.


Juss don't be under that frame if an earthquake hits, you might be ok during a typhoon though LOL


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Now we're getting into extremes of overbuilt lol!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Waiting now for someone to post about their 2 inch square steel tubing for a frame LOL


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## Aqualungs

Haha!! Made some cuts tonight, my back hurts.. Tylenol and a half of Tramadol and some boob tube and I'll be ok in the morning! It's about 16 here and new garage isn't heated like my last one. I'm spent! 
Gonna be about 36" in height with casters. Thanks to Wookie-Choo for his leg design. Setting with some wood glue all squared off and will set some support screws in there.









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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aww shucks, 'twernt nuthin, juss helpin out a fellow "railer". I did the legs like that so's the caster screws wouldn't be biting air

Oh and I know about the back hurts, among other parts. My level laughs at Tramadol (it don't work at all)


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## Aqualungs

Haha! Lots of air!
I'm surprised Tramadol helps. Half with Tylenol for some reason works.
I had my power spine fused in 2013 after a failed surgery in 2004. Also have posriatic arthritis and ehlers danlos syndrome, so that adds to my pain bucket. I don't do heavy pain pills, and besides what dr prescribes them anyways? None that I know of lol

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## Steve Rothstein

This is a sign we are officially old. Young people get together and compare strength or speed to see who is toughest. They have no idea what tough really is until they see how hard getting old is. 

Old people start comparing medicines and illnesses. And yeah, I do that too. Just got switched to tramadol because the previous pain pills weren't working.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> This is a sign we are officially old. Young people get together and compare strength or speed to see who is toughest. They have no idea what tough really is until they see how hard getting old is.
> 
> Old people start comparing medicines and illnesses. And yeah, I do that too. Just got switched to tramadol because the previous pain pills weren't working.


Agreed 100%! Tramadol is Suttle enough to keep me moving, and I also have medical card for thc and cbd, which just plain gives me better quality of life. Getting old is rough and no one understands til they start that decline lol. 
I've had chronic pain since 5 with having eds and psa.. kidney stones felt like stomach cramps to me.. nothing compared to bones spurs in the spine 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I guess mine would be considered "heavy" but they work (Tramadol didn't) and if they find any sort of THC in my system I'll lose them (just ask my brother). It's been a while since passing a stone, have had three busted up and a stent in place for 3 months (I'll NEVER go through THAT hell again)

Getting old sucks but as I said before, been dealing with it since 26


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## Aqualungs

Glad I have some friends to relate to. People my age can still do alot, and have lost some friends on the way. Oh well. My wife and family are my biggest supporters.
Got the bench work together this morning. That gap is for control pads and expansion. I call it the Z gap. Lol just have to sand and fit. And brace where needed. Pretty damn sturdy with wood glue and pocket holes.









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## Aqualungs

I may put a shelf at the bottom for storage idk

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## Aqualungs

Just have to center the top and screw er down and can move on to electrical. Very sturdy.. and probably the most underbuilt I've built something lol. If anything should have went with 3" casters instead of 2. A lower shelf added later will give even more stability.
















Picture of my spring through fall fun. Can't wait for warm weather!

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## traction fan

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Waiting now for someone to post about their 2 inch square steel tubing for a frame LOL


WCB;

It's been done! In fact some build their tables with steel studs for the framing., and crosspieces. For "legs" I've seen a short stud wall built with vertical steel studs every foot or so, covered with Masonite. Overkill to the point of "swatting flies with nuclear weapons, in my opinion.


Aqualungs said:


> Planned and sketched out a base diagram. Time to hit the depot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

It's probably too late, but what the heck. You might be better off, in terms of supporting your layout, and being able to walk around the corners without snagging your foot on a table leg, if you moved the legs in a bit from the ends.
Linn Wescott, in his revolutionary (for the 1960s) "L-girder benchwork", determined that 1/5th of the length was an ideal setback form the ends for the legs. 
Of course, unlike all you lumberjack wanabees, and builders of log cabins, he was going for strong, but lightweight, benchwork, not something resembling a western frontier fort! 😄 

Speaking of L-girder construction, it's an "oldie but goodie."
It's actually stronger, and considerably more rigid, than the equivalent size solid beam, a good deal lighter, and infinitely more resistant to warping . In fact, it is impossible to bend a properly constructed L-girder. With enormous force you can break one, but no amount of force, moisture, or temperature changes, can bend it out of it's original shape. Those "hockey stick" pieces of 1 x 2, 1 x 3, and 2 x 4, you sometimes see at the home depot are examples of why this is not necessarily true of pieces of solid lumber. Plain old fashioned moisture and temperature, do a fine, efficient, job of bending them into different shapes.

Casters are a good idea, particularly for those of you, "Bob the Overbuilders" who are proud to build something that would be difficult to drag away from the wall without casters, and maybe a 12"-to-the-foot-scale, operating "model" of a bulldozer.  

Traction Fan


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> WCB;
> 
> It's been done! In fact some build their tables with steel studs for the framing., and crosspieces. For "legs" I've seen a short stud wall built with vertical steel studs every foot or so, covered with Masonite. Overkill to the point of "swatting flies with nuclear weapons, in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Aqualungs;
> 
> It's probably too late, but what the heck. You might be better off, in terms of supporting your layout, and being able to walk around the corners without snagging your foot on a table leg, if you moved the legs in a bit from the ends.
> Linn Wescott, in his revolutionary (for the 1960s) "L-girder benchwork", determined that 1/5th of the length was an ideal setback form the ends for the legs.
> Of course, unlike all you lumberjack wanabees, and builders of log cabins, he was going for strong, but lightweight, benchwork, not something resembling a western frontier fort!
> 
> Speaking of L-girder construction, it's an "oldie but goodie."
> It's actually stronger, and considerably more rigid, than the equivalent size solid beam, a good deal lighter, and infinitely more resistant to warping . In fact, it is impossible to bend a properly constructed L-girder. With enormous force you can break one, but no amount of force, moisture, or temperature changes, can bend it out of it's original shape. Those "hockey stick" pieces of 1 x 2, 1 x 3, and 2 x 4, you sometimes see at the home depot are examples of why this is not necessarily true of pieces of solid lumber. Plain old fashioned moisture and temperature, do a fine, efficient, job of bending them into different shapes.
> 
> Casters are a good idea, particularly for those of you, "Bob the Overbuilders" who are proud to build something that would be difficult to drag away from the wall without casters, and maybe a 12"-to-the-foot-scale, operating "model" of a bulldozer.
> 
> Traction Fan


Love it! 

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## Aqualungs

I spent 15 minutes finding good boards .. after this story I may do L girders with 1x's instead of 2x studs.. even I'd it takes a bit longer. Appreciate as always, the spreading of wisdom. Everything and everyone can always be better in my mind.. for lack of better words! Thanks! 

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## Steve Rothstein

traction fan said:


> It's probably too late, but what the heck. You might be better off, in terms of supporting your layout, and being able to walk around the corners without snagging your foot on a table leg, if you moved the legs in a bit from the ends.
> Linn Wescott, in his revolutionary (for the 1960s) "L-girder benchwork", determined that 1/5th of the length was an ideal setback form the ends for the legs.
> Of course, unlike all you lumberjack wanabees, and builders of log cabins, he was going for strong, but lightweight, benchwork, not something resembling a western frontier fort! 😄
> 
> Speaking of L-girder construction, it's an "oldie but goodie."
> It's actually stronger, and considerably more rigid, than the equivalent size solid beam, a good deal lighter, and infinitely more resistant to warping . In fact, it is impossible to bend a properly constructed L-girder. With enormous force you can break one, but no amount of force, moisture, or temperature changes, can bend it out of it's original shape. Those "hockey stick" pieces of 1 x 2, 1 x 3, and 2 x 4, you sometimes see at the home depot are examples of why this is not necessarily true of pieces of solid lumber. Plain old fashioned moisture and temperature, do a fine, efficient, job of bending them into different shapes.


Actually, despite the overbuilding I did and joked about, I like the idea of the L-girders made from 1x2s and 1x3s. One reason I used such large pieces of lumber was that I wanted to minimize warping and I really did not think about the L shape. I like that it is light and stronger, and might even be cheaper to buy the lumber for. Another reason I used the 2x4s for the frame is to make sure I could move it around without a problem. The legs on this one are removable if we want to put the layout in a van or something to move it.

I also like the idea of setting the legs back a little from the corners. With a strong enough frame (and I think the L-girders would do it), the top would still be rigid enough to lift and carry with removable legs. 

This is another thing I learned on the forum though, after I built the table for the layout. Makes me kind of wish I had found the forum when we first started looking for a layout instead of after we got the first version done.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> Actually, despite the overbuilding I did and joked about, I like the idea of the L-girders made from 1x2s and 1x3s. One reason I used such large pieces of lumber was that I wanted to minimize warping and I really did not think about the L shape. I like that it is light and stronger, and might even be cheaper to buy the lumber for. Another reason I used the 2x4s for the frame is to make sure I could move it around without a problem. The legs on this one are removable if we want to put the layout in a van or something to move it.
> 
> I also like the idea of setting the legs back a little from the corners. With a strong enough frame (and I think the L-girders would do it), the top would still be rigid enough to lift and carry with removable legs.
> 
> This is another thing I learned on the forum though, after I built the table for the layout. Makes me kind of wish I had found the forum when we first started looking for a layout instead of after we got the first version done.


Right. I've been debating on keeping this for a hobby/movable workbench and building a different setup. Always can repurchase a Good table top lol.

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> I may put a shelf at the bottom for storage idk
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


A shelf would be an excellent idea with the braces you have, my other half bought me some roll around totes with 3 drawers each that fit under the table


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Ju
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picture of my spring through fall fun. Can't wait for warm weather!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Enough toys so's everyone can play LOL even at the lake or pool


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> I spent 15 minutes finding good boards .. after this story I may do L girders with 1x's instead of 2x studs.. even I'd it takes a bit longer. Appreciate as always, the spreading of wisdom. Everything and everyone can always be better in my mind.. for lack of better words! Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Yeah, a friend of mine who was a self employed contractor showed me how to get the straightest and non warped boards, takes up a little time but . . . . . . . Pick up one end of whatever board, works with all of them, and sight down the length of at least two sides. You'll see any bend or whoop-dee-doos and reject that board . . . . next one.

Oh and the "friends to relate to", yeah I know I'm not the only one out there. I have a mentor of sorts too, he can't exactly examine nor diagnose (unethical if not illegal) but he gives me some answers when my Doctor doesn't answer to my satisfaction. This mentor is my son the Doctor (yeah graduated Med School and everything), it was his and my other half Karen who "pestered" me into quitting smoking, coming up on a year in April


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> Stapleton has designed a controller for Kato track. You can see it by clicking here. I am planning on using these when I build a control panel because I like the LED indicators that show which way the track is set. Right now, all my turnouts are powered by the blue Kato power units, but the trains are all powered by the DCC so I should be okay on this. I have two of the crossovers that we are putting in this weekend.


That is pretty nifty. I will have to youtube a video on install. I don't have a whole lot of soldering experience. What do all those wires go to from each switch  whoa.. lol

I would like to do this to safeguard my turnout coils and it doesn't seem too expensive. I guess this also helps when I get a DCC setup, it will reserve power for running the locos, and I won't have to switch over on the dcc controller from loco to turnout and back vice versa.. 

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## Aqualungs

I found these nifty switches also in my search. Just have to feed turnout wire into terminals. Still scanning for more info on k751 switches 



http://rpc-electronics.com/kato.php



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## Aqualungs

Not sure if these are momentary switches or not

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Right. I've been debating on keeping this for a hobby/movable workbench and building a different setup. Always can repurchase a Good table top lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs, & Steve R. ;

🙂
On my grandsons layout, I was even able to straighten out some "hockey stick" 1 x 2s (which was all the local Home Depot had. ) 
This is a lot of work, and I'm not recommending it, but it does illustrate what a straight & stable shape an L-girder is.
I have also used 1/4" & 1/8" thick luan plywood a lot on my railroads, and some I have built for others. I use 1/4" luan braced with 3/4" x 1/4" pine strips down both sides as super rigid "inverted U-girder" sub roadbed, and 1/8" luan as my roadbed.

I made simple, super-quick-to-assemble, light, strong, & rigid, modules with 1/4" luan cut into 3' long and 4" wide, strips, glued to a conventional pine 1 x 2, to form L-girder front and back beams. The ends were pine 1 x 4s and the corners were reinforced by 2 x 2 blocks. This layout didn't use legs, as it was bolted to the wall, and had 1 x 2 "knee braces" like those in the sketch. If you were to use legs they could double as the corner blocks. I did this years ago for a friend's N-scale layout. There is a sketch of it in the file "3 & 4 How to build a better first layout" attached below. All the dimensions are optional, so you can adapt the basic idea to suit your own situation.

If you really want super-strong, rigid, and extremely lightweight, construction, you could use box girders. I made the 2 x 2 corner beams, and the arches that support my own shelf layout, and a few hundred pounds of train books & "stuff" on top of the railroad. This one doesn't even need knee braces, let alone any legs, as the design is totally supported by the wall studs its bolted to, and its own shape.

The first photo shows one of the 2 x 2s I made as a box girder. It is essentially two mini L-girders back-to-back , incredibly strong, and absolutely rigid. The Styrofoam core is simply a place holder to keep the box girder walls in place while gluing the thing together. It doesn't add any structural strength at all, so cheap white bead board is fine for this job. You could use blue, pink, or green, extruded foam if you wanted to. 
Again, you can use the same idea in any shape, as I did with my layout's arches.
That box girder 2 x 2 is so light it's all but weightless, yet It will support my delicate little 6' - 6 " / 290 Lb. body. I can also sit safely on the "standard" 4' long, 16" high & 16" deep section shown in the second photo. Even at age 72, I can also lift the whole thing with one finger which gives you an idea of how lightweight it is.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

Viaduct V2 is arriving today, as well as 8 freight car set. Was going to add to the table to make an L, but I have to hold off for a bit to pay some bills! Also taking my time to plan the layout. I'm having some issue getting the loops to line up in a an l shape but I have time. All is good until I go to connect the last track piece and it is slightly off by a small curve. I will have to play around more.
I did up a slightly different layout though. I want to add another passenger train soon, and I need 1 more right turnout to complete the lower passing side. 
Also shopping for a 12 amp switch kit for the kato turnouts to free up power to the trains from the cab.









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## Aqualungs

Also when I get to the point of planning the L layout I was going to add feeders every 5 feet or so like Mike Fifer talks a about. I would think one of these bus terminal block setups would be perfect.









MTH O 50-1014 12-Port Terminal Block


The easy way to power accessories or distribute power to different track block sections.




www.modeltrainstuff.com





As far as turnout control goes I found 1 place on ebay that has momentary lighted switches and they do most of the soldering work. An area where I could use more practice and knowledge. Also have some time in this area to learn and have a good soldering kit.
With that said the 751k switch setup would be more in my realm of possibilities.








KATO Point Controller (point switch) | eBay


This module is only for KATO points as they operate differently from points with a double-solenoid - from other manufacturers. They do not connect to each other. Ask us about this. Designed by Colin Mitchell Talking Electronics dot com.



www.ebay.com





Are there any AC switch setups that are plug and play so to say?

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

On the "getting things to line up" department, AnyRail had me using some of the off the wall short pieces of track to take up the THISCLOSE gaps in track but when it comes down to it there is enough "give" in the track where I actually only used 2 of the extra short pieces

That switch setup looks nice but how much room will you have to mount the thing with the capacitor cans sticking up as high as the switches. I just used "standard" DPDT momentary on that can be gotten at any hardware store and soldered wire lugs on the wiring, you could use either spade or loop type. On the soldering be sure to have a can of flux and rosin core solder (don't use acid core, I thing that is for copper plumbing). Soldering takes a little practice but the shorter time the heat is applied the better


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> On the "getting things to line up" department, AnyRail had me using some of the off the wall short pieces of track to take up the THISCLOSE gaps in track but when it comes down to it there is enough "give" in the track where I actually only used 2 of the extra short pieces
> 
> That switch setup looks nice but how much room will you have to mount the thing with the capacitor cans sticking up as high as the switches. I just used "standard" DPDT momentary on that can be gotten at any hardware store and soldered wire lugs on the wiring, you could use either spade or loop type. On the soldering be sure to have a can of flux and rosin core solder (don't use acid core, I thing that is for copper plumbing). Soldering takes a little practice but the shorter time the heat is applied the better


The cool thing about the switch setup is they state you can have the switches separate so you can install them on your switchboard. So I guess it would work well. I would need 2. For the two #6 turnouts on the passing side, I take it would make sense to have both turnouts on 1 switch to activate both turnouts at once?

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Yeah if both turnouts were feeding / exiting a siding one switch would make sense. I don't understand "switches separate"


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Yeah if both turnouts were feeding / exiting a siding one switch would make sense. I don't understand "switches separate"


Ha yea I have a hard time explaining what's inside my head sometimes lol. Here's the description of the product:
This KATO Point Motor controller will control up to 4 points.
The basic cost is $10.00 for a single point and only the necessary components will be fitted for 10.00
The switch comes separate so you can add it to the module or fit it to your control panel.
If you want to activate 2 points, the cost of the module is $15.00
For 3 points the module costs $20.00
and 4 points costs $25.00
When you make your purchase for $10.00 you will get an email asking you if you want to upgrade to 2, 3 or 4 points.
Postage is $6.50 worldwide



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## CTValleyRR

Aqualungs said:


> Are there any AC switch setups that are plug and play so to say?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


AC? Not that I'm aware of. However, the Octo III and servo motors from Tam Valley Depot are just about plug and play, as is the very similar Walthers turnout control system.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

You'll have to break it down and show us when you get it


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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> The cool thing about the switch setup is they state you can have the switches separate so you can install them on your switchboard. So I guess it would work well. I would need 2. For the two #6 turnouts on the passing side, I take it would make sense to have both turnouts on 1 switch to activate both turnouts at once?


I did it with just one switch controlling both turnouts. That way the traffic is always going to go into the siding or straight on the main rail. I figured it is easier to void a train jumping the turnout set the wrong way by keeping them matched. The only time this would cause a problem is if the timing were so close that you had one train entering the main line from one direction while the other train was still pulling into the siding.


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## Aqualungs

CTValleyRR said:


> AC? Not that I'm aware of. However, the Octo III and servo motors from Tam Valley Depot are just about plug and play, as is the very similar Walthers turnout control system.


I will check those out. Here's my thinking in what steps to take next on my layout to prepare a smooth transition to DCC. Saving for the Digitrax Zephyr Express.

-get better switch setup for turnouts 
-add anther terminal feeder to each loop so feeders are every 5 feet and a terminal block to prep wiring for easy DCC transition
-add insulated unijoiners to Turnouts ends and any necessary feeders 
-Design new layout
-Expand to L table and add DCC/Decoders
-Final layout design and 2" foam
-landscaping with the wife!

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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> I did it with just one switch controlling both turnouts. That way the traffic is always going to go into the siding or straight on the main rail. I figured it is easier to void a train jumping the turnout set the wrong way by keeping them matched. The only time this would cause a problem is if the timing were so close that you had one train entering the main line from one direction while the other train was still pulling into the siding.


My thinking too, thanks Steve!

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> I will check those out. Here's my thinking in what steps to take next on my layout to prepare a smooth transition to DCC. Saving for the Digitrax Zephyr Express.
> 
> -get better switch setup for turnouts
> -add anther terminal feeder to each loop so feeders are every 5 feet and a terminal block to prep wiring for easy DCC transition
> -Design new layout
> -Expand to L table and add DCC
> -Final layout design and 2" foam
> -landscaping with the wife!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


My thinking with my electrical knowledge from being a repair tech in the Army and what I've learned here is you can go ahead and wire your layout for DCC even though you'll be running DC for a spell. That will ensure correct polarity on the track. I found out just last week that I can hook up my Kato DC controller to the DCC Zephyr as a second throttle and would again use the 12VDC "outlets" for a couple of the turnouts (operating one at a time except for the double crossover having it's own power supply and switch). The track power drops being every 6 feet or so for either DC or DCC would ensure uninterrupted power and proper polarity

"landscaping the wife" ??? is there something there we don't want to know or would be on the news later ?  🤨

OH WAIT landscaping WITH the wife . . . . . . . I misread that LOL


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> You'll have to break it down and show us when you get it


Yes, or I may just decide to do myself like you explained and get some switches. I need to learn how to solder better and open the new kit I bought last year lol. I'm more intimidated but also intrigued by circuit boards.
So I take it just need momentary switches with leds and an ac plug setup? Any pictures of your setup or a good link to building one?
I'll check my book for ideas also


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I can't show the actual wiring on the switches in the panel as I cut them all when tearing down my previous layout

























Here is an example of the ones I bought, they make physically smaller switches but these I like better. I also did some modifications and installed the workings of the Kato controller into a panel box. The buss terminals are just what I had here but you could use any one of a large number of them out there. The wire lugs are varied and the color is for the wire size, I like the round lugs better and the red is for the smaller size of wire like I use here








Switches on the right are for lighting








Not shown but I wired blue and white for track feeds (same as Kato) to and from these, 4 total








Again, blue and white not installed yet, this is the 4X4ft L extension


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## traction fan

[QUOTE="Aqualungs, pos

Are there any AC switch setups that are plug and play so to say?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]

Aqualungs;

Kato turnouts operate strictly on DC, NOT AC ! 
If you pumped AC power into a Kato turnout the point rails would indeed change routes, but they would change routes sixty-times-per-second, for the very brief number of seconds it would take to destroy the insides of the turnout! --------- BUZZZZZ SMOKE !  --------- Definitely NOT recommended! 
The Kato switch machine, built into their Unitrack turnout's roadbed base, is a unique, single-coil design.
Other brands, like Atlas, and Peco, use a twin-coil system, with one of the two coils being energized to pull a metal slug one way, and the other coil to pull the slug back the other way. The movement of the slug is mechanically linked so as to move the point rails from one route to the other. The twin-coil machines used by Atlas and Peco, will work on either DC or AC.
However, the Kato machine is a completely different animal. It uses one coil to attract one of two permanent magnets, attached to opposite ends of a sliding bar. To do this, the Kato single coil needs to have it's (DC) polarity reversed. The polarity of the DC power applied to the coil determines which of the two magnets the coil will attract. This moves that sliding bar back and forth to set the points to either one route, or the other. The Kato turnout control levers are, electrically, oversized (momentary) reversing switches. Pushed one way they send positive DC power to the turnout. Pushed the other way, they send negative DC power. This is why Wookie Choo_Baca can use momentary toggle DPDT reversing switches to operate his Kato turnouts. These DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) momentary toggle switches are considerably less bulky, and much cheaper than the Kato levers, or the pushbutton controls you're looking at. If the pushbutton control has a built-in CPU (Capacitive Discharge Unit) that would be a point in it's favor, but you can make your own CDU a whole lot cheaper. 
Dude! You really need to learn how to solder. It's an essential skill for model railroaders. 

Regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

YES, what TF just said Kato turnouts operate on 12VDC only and reversing the polarity through the DPDT switch is what does the deed

Nice solder kit but if you are like me you will soon tire of chasing down that yellow sponge and keeping it damp. What I did was to use one of my wood or plastic handle wire "toothbrushes" I had a set of 3 for when I work on my cars and the stainless one hadn't been used so it is now dedicated to keep the iron tip clean


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Also shopping for a 12 amp switch kit for the kato turnouts to free up power to the trains from the cab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

A prototype switch motor might draw 12 amps, since it has to move super-heavy, (very approx. a hundred pounds per yard) 12"-to-the-foot-scale, steel point rails back and forth, but for model turnouts, 12 amps is way more than you would ever need. A 5 amp supply would be more than adequate for all the turnouts on a large layout with many turnouts. If you happen to find a 12 amp, or 10 amp supply at a good price, it won't hurt anything, since the turnouts will only draw the small amount of current they actually need, but 12 amps is overkill, and normally more expensive.

Regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> YES, what TF just said Kato turnouts operate on 12VDC only and reversing the polarity through the DPDT switch is what does the deed
> 
> Nice solder kit but if you are like me you will soon tire of chasing down that yellow sponge and keeping it damp. What I did was to use one of my wood or plastic handle wire "toothbrushes" I had a set of 3 for when I work on my cars and the stainless one hadn't been used so it is now dedicated to keep the iron tip clean
> View attachment 554273
> 
> 
> 
> Aqualungs;
> 
> I disagree with WCB about cleaning the tip of my soldering iron. While a wire brush is needed when the crud has built up too much, I find I use the wet sponge method before every solder joint I make. Cleaning with a wire brush every time would be a royal PITA in my opinion. When the crud has gotten beyond the sponge cleaning stage, I hold the still hot iron in a wire brush wheel in my bench grinder to clean it completely, and then re-tin the whole tip with solder. If the original yellow sponge wears out, use what I do, a Scotch Brite sponge, cut to fit in your stand. This works very well if you get it soaking wet before a soldering session.
> 
> Regards;
> 
> Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan

Aqualungs;

I prefer to use the wet sponge method for cleaning the tip of my soldering iron. I wipe the tip against the wet sponge before each solder joint I make. Over time, enough crud will coat the tip to the point that the sponge won't clean it. Then I hold the still hot tip of the soldering iron in the wire brush wheel of my bench grinder to get it completely clean, and then re-tin the whole tip with fresh solder. If the original sponge wears out, you can cut a piece of Scotch Brite sponge to fit tightly in the pan of your soldering stand. Get it soaking wet before each soldering session, and it will do a great job of keeping the tip clean.

Regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


----------



## traction fan

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> My thinking with my electrical knowledge from being a repair tech in the Army and what I've learned here is you can go ahead and wire your layout for DCC even though you'll be running DC for a spell. That will ensure correct polarity on the track. I found out just last week that I can hook up my Kato DC controller to the DCC Zephyr as a second throttle and would again use the 12VDC "outlets" for a couple of the turnouts (operating one at a time except for the double crossover having it's own power supply and switch). The track power drops being every 6 feet or so for either DC or DCC would ensure uninterrupted power and proper polarity
> 
> "landscaping the wife" ??? is there something there we don't want to know or would be on the news later ?  🤨
> 
> OH WAIT landscaping WITH the wife . . . . . . . I misread that LOL



Aqualungs;

Wooky's right, the basic track wiring for DCC and DC is the same. The big difference being that all the insulated blocks, associated wiring, and control panel full of block power selecting toggle switches, are unnecessary with DCC. Many modelers who had been using DC "dual cab control" for years, "rewired their existing DC layouts for DCC" by simply setting all the blocks power selector switches to "Cab 'A' " and attaching their new DCC controller to the same wires formerly used by the Cab 'A' DC power pack. In other words, they used the exact same wiring, but just substituted a DCC controller for a DC power pack.

Traction Fan


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## Steve Rothstein

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> On the "getting things to line up" department, AnyRail had me using some of the off the wall short pieces of track to take up the THISCLOSE gaps in track but when it comes down to it there is enough "give" in the track where I actually only used 2 of the extra short pieces


On the getting things to line up right, I had been doing the math and used a lot of the various very short pieces (29,33,38,and 46mm) in combinations to get the track where I wanted it to match. My LHS finally got some of the S78 adjustable pieces in, so I bought a half dozen of them. I redid the layout using the longest pieces I could for each part to minimize the number of pieces of track in the layout and used the adjustable pieces for the last section. I now have quite a few extra pieces of track of varying lengths, but I think the layout is better. The S78 does not look realistic (or even as realistic as the Unitrack does) because of the adjustment but it does work to make sure all of the parts lined up correctly.

I think one of the problems I was having was also solved by making sure the curves are done first. Then I can usually adjust the length of the straights so that they match the placement of the curved ends. When I tried laying out the track in the order it would be built in real life, I almost always ended up with the curves not quite matching up. My design engineering might need some brushing up.


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## Aqualungs

I will have to go back a reread everone's comments. For now Ihave a small proble. I've been setting up the new layout and pretty much done. I have an issue with the middle loop. Only the feeder track has power, and the train stops when it hits the middle track. Ican put it on the feeder, but as soon as it hits the next section, no power. Any ideas? I've checked and thought it was loose, but oviously the loco moves, so it's getting some power. I didn't change much with the crossovers and the connection seems fine.



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## Aqualungs

Here's my track plan. I did deviate a little by the double crossovers. I even flipped the feeders to see if one was defective but same thing. Only power to the feeder and none of the second loop. Maybe I need to relocate it.









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## Aqualungs

Fixed it. Moved the middle feeder to the other end of the double crossovers and works. Happy day. 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Fixed it. Moved the middle feeder to the other end of the double crossovers and works. Happy day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Yep, Mike Fifer said in his video on the crossovers to have a power drop on all 4 legs of it, no necessarily right at it but somewhere close by. I've also marked with a dab of white paint at the joints where the feeder / connecters are, I didn't use the Kato plug in wire, instead I bought a couple and made the rest of connecter / feed drops


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Yep, Mike Fifer said in his video on the crossovers to have a power drop on all 4 legs of it, no necessarily right at it but somewhere close by. I've also marked with a dab of white paint at the joints where the feeder / connecters are, I didn't use the Kato plug in wire, instead I bought a couple and made the rest of connecter / feed drops


I'm going to need some feeders for the #4 turnouts on the spurs. 2 dead spots once you activate one of them and the other once you get past a certain spot. 
Fun layout for now. Hobby shop my have a couple of those bad boys at twice the price! Lol


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Feeders are easy to make, a little tedious because everything you're doing is small. A flat jewelers screwdriver up from the bottom of the track connector to pop the metal bit out, spread out the "wings" on either end so's to catch the plastic on reassembly. Here comes the fiddly part, you'll need flux to make this go quicker and better solder joint. I held the metal bit upside down in an alligator clip / holding fixture. Dab of flux on bottom edge, tin the wire and clip it to about 2mm, 1mm works too, small drop of solder on the iron, touch the wire and iron to the center of the mental bit and pull the iron back while holding wire (my shaky hands made this part a . . . . . yeah) OH, don't forget to slip the wire up through the bottom center of the plastic part (ask me how I KNOW about THIS  😁). As long as no solder gets down the side of the metal bit and you can see a good smooth connection the metal should pop right back in place . . . . . . . next . . . . .


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> [QUOTE="Aqualungs, pos
> 
> Are there any AC switch setups that are plug and play so to say?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

Kato turnouts operate strictly on DC, NOT AC ! 
If you pumped AC power into a Kato turnout the point rails would indeed change routes, but they would change routes sixty-times-per-second, for the very brief number of seconds it would take to destroy the insides of the turnout! --------- BUZZZZZ SMOKE !  --------- Definitely NOT recommended! 
The Kato switch machine, built into their Unitrack turnout's roadbed base, is a unique, single-coil design.
Other brands, like Atlas, and Peco, use a twin-coil system, with one of the two coils being energized to pull a metal slug one way, and the other coil to pull the slug back the other way. The movement of the slug is mechanically linked so as to move the point rails from one route to the other. The twin-coil machines used by Atlas and Peco, will work on either DC or AC.
However, the Kato machine is a completely different animal. It uses one coil to attract one of two permanent magnets, attached to opposite ends of a sliding bar. To do this, the Kato single coil needs to have it's (DC) polarity reversed. The polarity of the DC power applied to the coil determines which of the two magnets the coil will attract. This moves that sliding bar back and forth to set the points to either one route, or the other. The Kato turnout control levers are, electrically, oversized (momentary) reversing switches. Pushed one way they send positive DC power to the turnout. Pushed the other way, they send negative DC power. This is why Wookie Choo_Baca can use momentary toggle DPDT reversing switches to operate his Kato turnouts. These DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) momentary toggle switches are considerably less bulky, and much cheaper than the Kato levers, or the pushbutton controls you're looking at. If the pushbutton control has a built-in CPU (Capacitive Discharge Unit) that would be a point in it's favor, but you can make your own CDU a whole lot cheaper. 
Dude! You really need to learn how to solder. It's an essential skill for model railroaders. 

Regards;

Traction Fan [/QUOTE]I meant 12volt dc but said AC. I will get this lingo down lol! Had a bad head injury and concussion in 2019, really messed me up a bit and affects my learning. I thi k one thing and another comes out of the mouth.. same wirh read one thing and say the wrong thing. Has been challenging ans need a "tilt" once in a while. I stay determined!
Yes I like how this hobby is forcing me to finally open that TK950 up. 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

And yeah I just read my mistake (not really) about the mental part LOL


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Good therapy here workin' on da railroad Aqua, don't worry about sayin' and doin', some of us have similar 'flictions and can figure out the general ideas coming out and about 🚂🚃🚃


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> My thinking with my electrical knowledge from being a repair tech in the Army and what I've learned here is you can go ahead and wire your layout for DCC even though you'll be running DC for a spell. That will ensure correct polarity on the track. I found out just last week that I can hook up my Kato DC controller to the DCC Zephyr as a second throttle and would again use the 12VDC "outlets" for a couple of the turnouts (operating one at a time except for the double crossover having it's own power supply and switch). The track power drops being every 6 feet or so for either DC or DCC would ensure uninterrupted power and proper polarity
> 
> "landscaping the wife" ??? is there something there we don't want to know or would be on the news later ?
> 
> OH WAIT landscaping WITH the wife . . . . . . . I misread that LOL


Lol!! I can see how the mind wandered on that one!
Your custom switches and cab setup look awesome!
Yes I figure do a terminal block is better sooner than later, and I like your soldering of wires to the unijoiner terminals. That might be doable for me. I picked up one of those helping hand doohickeys to assist with the shakes lol.
I may order those ebay switches. I would just have to solder the switch wires to the switches. 
Soldering 101 on YouTube here we come. I do have experience with auto wire and butt connectors. Alwayd ran from soldering, except for a car stereo in 1998..

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Soldering connections is (or is it are) better because less likely of corrosion. Higher end boat builders solder all wiring for just that reason, much less likely of an electrical issue from wiring getting wet, especially salt water. I've soldered all the ring lugs that get screwed to the switches here. I've figured out that the dab of flux applied makes tinning wires and soldering joints quicker and better, remember the less heat applied to a circuit board but still making a good solder joint the better for the components on the board


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I'm multitasking tonight, being on here, was UPS tracking a delivery, it's here, fiddling with my warehouse, repainting my Krankenhaus and thinking about how I can model some roof mounted A/C units and want to use some of the HO scale piping from a refinery kit (no, I don't think they made piping in N scale)


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## Aqualungs

I was supposed to work out. Somehow setup and cleanup took about 5 hours lol. So I at least need a shower.. Saturdays are make up days for workout if I fail on Friday 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Yeah, trips through the rain room always feel good, make me smell better too LOL


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Feeders are easy to make, a little tedious because everything you're doing is small. A flat jewelers screwdriver up from the bottom of the track connector to pop the metal bit out, spread out the "wings" on either end so's to catch the plastic on reassembly. Here comes the fiddly part, you'll need flux to make this go quicker and better solder joint. I held the metal bit upside down in an alligator clip / holding fixture. Dab of flux on bottom edge, tin the wire and clip it to about 2mm, 1mm works too, small drop of solder on the iron, touch the wire and iron to the center of the mental bit and pull the iron back while holding wire (my shaky hands made this part a . . . . . yeah) OH, don't forget to slip the wire up through the bottom center of the plastic part (ask me how I KNOW about THIS  ). As long as no solder gets down the side of the metal bit and you can see a good smooth connection the metal should pop right back in place . . . . . . . next . . . . .
> View attachment 554307


Are you using 22 awg wire? I need to get some white and blue. Also any certain Flux and solder to be used? I have some RC hobby grade solder but need to pick up Flux. Last but not least I take it wire block terminals from Home Depot will work?


Tyco Electronics Double Row Terminal Block 8 Position 1/Clam








Tyco Electronics Double Row Terminal Block 8 Position 1/Clam CA7326-000 - The Home Depot






www.homedepot.com







https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/dorman-conduct-tite-3354/lighting---electrical-16777/fuses-16615/fuse-blocks--universal--18449/b381070c3b6b/dorman-conduct-tite-30-amp-junction-box/85685/4176764





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## CTValleyRR

Aqualungs said:


> I will check those out. Here's my thinking in what steps to take next on my layout to prepare a smooth transition to DCC. Saving for the Digitrax Zephyr Express.
> 
> -get better switch setup for turnouts
> -add anther terminal feeder to each loop so feeders are every 5 feet and a terminal block to prep wiring for easy DCC transition
> -add insulated unijoiners to Turnouts ends and any necessary feeders
> -Design new layout
> -Expand to L table and add DCC/Decoders
> -Final layout design and 2" foam
> -landscaping with the wife!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


You don't HAVE to run turnouts with the DCC system, although you can. Personally, I prefer pushbutton control from the fascia.


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## Aqualungs

CTValleyRR said:


> You don't HAVE to run turnouts with the DCC system, although you can. Personally, I prefer pushbutton control from the fascia.


Thanks CT, I decided to order a switch board. Next time I will try making it but for 57$ shipped is has 8 momentary switches, leds,and volt meter. I agree, more power for the locos.. I just have to get creative on designing the panel to hide the resistors or who cares lol 









KATO Point Controller (point switch) | eBay


This module is only for KATO points as they operate differently from points with a double-solenoid - from other manufacturers. They do not connect to each other. Ask us about this. Designed by Colin Mitchell Talking Electronics dot com.



www.ebay.com





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## Aqualungs

Started my Amazon list: 

- 22 awg red ring terminals (M4 or M5?)
-24 AWG wire (Blue, white, red, and black for turnouts and feeders)
-5 pack of 10 scew terminal blocks. (Read feeder wires should not be long when using smaller gauge, so more blocks with bus wiring)
-lead free solder wire 1.5mm with flux
-flux paste
-Tamiya connectors
(won't have to splice turnouts and existing power wire to feed terminal blocks). 

Can I make a new power wire with Tamiya connectors to the cab with a bigger gauge wire like 18 awg or 16 awg to feed the terminal blocks?


What size should the bus wires be that feed the terminal blocks?



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## traction fan

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I'm multitasking tonight, being on here, was UPS tracking a delivery, it's here, fiddling with my warehouse, repainting my Krankenhaus and thinking about how I can model some roof mounted A/C units and want to use some of the HO scale piping from a refinery kit (no, I don't think they made piping in N scale)


WCB;
There are commercial castings of both rooftop, and window, air conditioners available in both HO and N-scales.

Yes they did make N-scale piping. It is sold under the "trade name" "brass rod." It is easy to bend, and can be soldered together as needed. There are also quite tiny pieces of flat bar stock available which works well for strapping, and supports, for "N-scale piping."

The mast of this semaphore is made of brass tubing. The actuating rods for the blades are made of brass rod.
The spout, & filler pipe, of this water tower are made of brass sheet and rod. All the brass comes from K&S brass Co. both of these N-scale structures were scratchbuilt.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Started my Amazon list:
> 
> - 22 awg red ring terminals (M4 or M5?)
> -24 AWG wire (Blue, white, red, and black for turnouts and feeders)
> -5 pack of 10 scew terminal blocks. (Read feeder wires should not be long when using smaller gauge, so more blocks with bus wiring)
> -lead free solder wire 1.5mm with flux
> -flux paste
> -Tamiya connectors
> (won't have to splice turnouts and existing power wire to feed terminal blocks).
> 
> Can I make a new power wire with Tamiya connectors to the cab with a bigger gauge wire like 18 awg or 16 awg to feed the terminal blocks?
> 
> 
> What size should the bus wires be that feed the terminal blocks?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

I don't advise using Lead-free solder, since it doesn't solder worth two cents! While it is possible to solder with that stuff, it's much harder than using normal 60/40 solder. Since you are "solder shy" and a soldering newbie you don't need the extra challenge of trying to work with difficult solder. I use 60/40 rosin core solder. The 60% in the 60/40 is tin, the 40% is lead. Current brand is Kester (excellent) ordered on Amazon. For flux, I use water -based Oatey brand flux from Home Depot about $3 a plastic can, like the $6.99 one shown in your photo. 

Regards;

Traction Fan


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> I don't advise using Lead-free solder, since it doesn't solder worth two cents! I use 60/40 rosin core solder. The 60% in the 60/40 is tin, the 40% is lead. Current brand is Kester (excellent) ordered on Amazon. For flux, I use water -based Oatey brand flux from Home Depot about $3 a plastic can, like the $6.99 one shown in your photo.
> 
> Regards;
> 
> Traction Fan


Ok I actually have to stop by home depot 
Tomorrow that works for the flux. Wish they carried the other stuff I needed. They do have terminal blocks. 
Should I stick with 24 awg wire for the feeders like kato uses? From what I remember you power feed with gauge size is only as good as the power source. So the cab has 24 awg wiring it makes sense to make the rest 24 awg? Unless I made a 18 or 24 awg wiring harness with a tamiya connector for the cab to the terminal blocks. All the bus wires would be 18-24 awg, then the feeder wires 24 awg? 

Thanks TF!

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## Aqualungs

Made a quick video. 





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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I got 24Ga stranded wire but also have 20ga (?) solid copper that I have on hand, can't remember where it came from. The Depot didn't have any flux when I went looking, picked it up from OReillys. The rosin core solder I've had a boatload from other projects such as connecting the "City Lights" and adding extra brake lights on my Mercedes, factory slots that were supposed to be rear Euro fog lights. The solder is one thing that should be, like TF said, the leaded version

You can use the forked connectors but you run the risk of one sliding out while jabbing another one in, yeah with the looped ones you gotta keep em all on the screw . . . . . 

TF, I know about the brass rods from window shopping at the Lobby. what I have here is the Walthers plastic piping kit for the HO refinery but there are some small enough for modeling N Scale. I guess the larger pieces could be the overland pipelines

Aqua, here is the innards of a Kato turnout. The red arrow points to the gizmo that switches the power routing on the frog
The blue is pointing out the two magnets in the actuating rod / bar that the coil pulls back and forth
The orange is the points actuating rod, upper being the pivot and lower is connected to the rails with a slot in the actuating bar moving the rod back and forth


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I got 24Ga stranded wire but also have 20ga (?) solid copper that I have on hand, can't remember where it came from. The Depot didn't have any flux when I went looking, picked it up from OReillys. The rosin core solder I've had a boatload from other projects such as connecting the "City Lights" and adding extra brake lights on my Mercedes, factory slots that were supposed to be rear Euro fog lights. The solder is one thing that should be, like TF said, the leaded version
> 
> You can use the forked connectors but you run the risk of one sliding out while jabbing another one in, yeah with the looped ones you gotta keep em all on the screw . . . . .
> 
> TF, I know about the brass rods from window shopping at the Lobby. what I have here is the Walthers plastic piping kit for the HO refinery but there are some small enough for modeling N Scale. I guess the larger pieces could be the overland pipelines
> 
> Aqua, here is the innards of a Kato turnout. The red arrow points to the gizmo that switches the power routing on the frog
> The blue is pointing out the two magnets in the actuating rod / bar that the coil pulls back and forth
> The orange is the points actuating rod, upper being the pivot and lower is connected to the rails with a slot in the actuating bar moving the rod back and forth
> View attachment 554338


Yea I plan on getting the ring terminals. Did you use M4 or M5?
Turnout internals are pretty cool. How often do they break down, and what usually needs fixing?

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Juss wait til ya get HERE   









Not sure on the M4 orM5, I usually eyeball the sizes and the red plastic insulation sleeve on the lugs is for smaller sized wire. I started with the blue you see, just had them on hand but during the re-do will be changed to red lugs

The turnouts are pretty rugged and simple. I was having a problem with a dead spot on this one, thought maybe the TEENY TINY wires inside going to the coil were touching so I separated them and taped them down with Kapton tape, no joy, might be something else. I have this one now for spare/parts


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Juss wait til ya get HERE
> View attachment 554340
> 
> 
> Not sure on the M4 orM5, I usually eyeball the sizes and the red plastic insulation sleeve on the lugs is for smaller sized wire. I started with the blue you see, just had them on hand but during the re-do will be changed to red lugs
> 
> The turnouts are pretty rugged and simple. I was having a problem with a dead spot on this one, thought maybe the TEENY TINY wires inside going to the coil were touching so I separated them and taped them down with Kapton tape, no joy, might be something else. I have this one now for spare/parts


Pulled out my calipers a M4 4mm opening should be plenty big. I Think 5mm to 6mm opening would be too much. 

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## Aqualungs

Put my Amazon order in. It will be Monday funday. Did blue and white solid 22 awg for bus wires, 24 awg blue and white for feeders. 24 awg red and black for when I receive my turnout controllers. Tamiya connwcrors for the turnout wires from the panel.. Pencil tip for my iron, flux paste, and 50/40 leaded solder, 4m ring terminals, and 6 position block terminals. Going to put the terminals about every 3 feet, and that will allow 4 feeders in each of those areas. If I have any issues, can add a feeder.

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Ok I actually have to stop by home depot
> Tomorrow that works for the flux. Wish they carried the other stuff I needed. They do have terminal blocks.
> Should I stick with 24 awg wire for the feeders like kato uses? From what I remember you power feed with gauge size is only as good as the power source. So the cab has 24 awg wiring it makes sense to make the rest 24 awg? Unless I made a 18 or 24 awg wiring harness with a tamiya connector for the cab to the terminal blocks. All the bus wires would be 18-24 awg, then the feeder wires 24 awg?
> 
> Thanks TF!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



Aqualungs;

I can't advise you on the Tamiya connectors for Kato track, since I don't use either of those products. I'll leave that one to some of the many here who are Kato Unitrack users. The difference between 22 & 24ga. wire is minor. You can use any gauge of wire that fits, for your short feeders. Many tend to use small, (22-24ga.) wires for feeders, because they are easier to conceal, than a larger size would be, when soldered to the side of a rail. Since you're using Kato track, and their hidden feeders, that won't be an issue for you.

I am not a fan of solid wire in sizes smaller than the giant stuff used to wire a house. Thin solid wire tends to kink, and break. Sometimes the copper conductor breaks inside the plastic insulation, which can drive you crazy when you are trying to figure out "why the train won't go."
Stranded wire is more flexible, more rugged, and more "forgiving." (If one or two individual strands break, there's still plenty of others that keep on carrying current.) I use 18ga. stranded wire for both feeders, and bus wires, on my small layout. For large layouts 14ga. (house type) wire is recommended for long bus wires, and 22-24ga. for feeders. However, any wire within reason *
will work for wiring a normal sized home layout.

I use a feeder wire for each, and every, rail on my layout. This system was used on my old club's giant layout, along with 14ga. bus wires. It worked very reliably, since the rail joiners were not used for carrying electricity, only for holding the rails in physical alignment. However, the club used flex track with 3' sections soldered into 6'-9' larger sections, so the number of feeders was kept reasonable.

Now this system does not translate to Kato Unitrack.
Since that's what you're using, I think you will have to rely on Kato's high quality, and reliability, including their plug connectors between track sections, and plug-in power feeders. Since I have yet to hear a single complaint about Kato Unitrack, I think that will work out OK for you. 

Don't obsess a lot about following the exact wire gages used in various YouTube videos. essentially, wire is wire.
Having some sort of fixed terminal under the layout where you can tie off a feeder wire, and connect it to the bus wire, is a very good practice. It will help to protect the small feeder wires from damage due to accidental snags & strain, and also be very handy for troubleshooting, since you will be able to check the power at each set of terminals. Brass cup hooks (Home Depot again) have been used as inexpensive, readily available solder lugs for this purpose.

Using Solderless crimp on terminals is not as reliable as a good solder connection. Those terminals are only as reliable as the crimp that holds them onto the wire, so if you use them, also use the proper crimping tool designed for them. I strongly recommend that after each crimp, you grab the connector in one hand, and the wire in the other, and try hard to pull them apart. Don't assume you have a good connection, check each and every one as you go along. 
I once worked for Western Electric, the construction branch of the phone company. We were building a "switch room" the place where all the (Land Line) wires from all the phones in the area came together. They did this kind of "hard pull test" on every connection. No one wanted to find the bad connection in a room filled with millions upon millions of connections! That stuck with me. You can't be too careful.

Home Depot carries the screw connector terminal blocks (called "barrier strips" for the insulating walls between screws) They also have crimp connectors, and crimping tools, solder, and flux.
As WCB mentioned, it can be hard to get several crimp connectors (the 'U' -shaped ones called "Spade Lugs", onto the same screw of a barrier strip. It helps if you put one spade lug on upside down, and one right side up.
I don't recommend using the full ring type, where you have to remove the screw to get the connector on. The screws are short, have an odd thread that most screws wont fit, and they are often non-magnetic. The result is that you often don't have enough screw length to get all the wires on, you accidentally unscrew it all the way, it falls, you can't find it or, if you do, a magnetic screwdriver won't pick it up, or hold it while you try to get it back in over several wires. If/when you loose a screw, no normal screw will replace it, since the threads won't match. In short, while they are good connectors, they can also be a PITA.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂

* My favorite railroad, the Milwaukee Road used two pieces of 4/0 (pronounced "four ought") giant wire for the catenary contact wire that powered their trains. As each of these wires was about 3/4" thick, It might be a wee bit large for model railroad use! 😄 But then our feeder and bus wires don't have to provide 3000 volts at 3000 amps to help a full size electric locomotive drag a 10,000 ton freight train over a mountain.


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## Aqualungs

Good to know Traction Fan. I was able to cancel the blue roll of solid wire, but the other is on its way. I see where that could be frustrating! I have red and black stranded wire in multiple sizes I can use. I can order some blue and white If I want to be picky lol.
I had thr dang forked terminals originally in my cart.. drat!. I have Klein ratcheting crimp connectors. I usually use noninsulated wired and marine heat shrink but these should work. I imagine with 24 awg you fold the wire over to double its thickness then crimp. Since those red connectors are for minimum awg.

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## Aqualungs

My feeders and terminal block diagram. This should give a nice even power flow and the transition to DCC will be smooth in the next few months. I have room to add feeders, but every 3 feet should be enough. 
I have 1 right turnout ont the way to create a passing side.









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## Aqualungs

L addition to the table will need to wait a while. My tortoise needs a new enclosure









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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Good to know Traction Fan. I was able to cancel the blue roll of solid wire, but the other is on its way. I see where that could be frustrating! I have red and black stranded wire in multiple sizes I can use. I can order some blue and white If I want to be picky lol.


My son and I just completed the wiring for our layout this weekend. I only ordered black and red wire because I am used to working with those two colors. Since the unijoiners use blue and white wire that is relatively short, we put extensions on all of them to reach the bus. I just used an easy to remember rule that anything with a blue wire went to a black extension. The white wire then got the red extension. I figured black and blue would be easy to remember and keep straight. I am too lazy to order more blue and white wire just for this.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> My son and I just completed the wiring for our layout this weekend. I only ordered black and red wire because I am used to working with those two colors. Since the unijoiners use blue and white wire that is relatively short, we put extensions on all of them to reach the bus. I just used an easy to remember rule that anything with a blue wire went to a black extension. The white wire then got the red extension. I figured black and blue would be easy to remember and keep straight. I am too lazy to order more blue and white wire just for this.


I hear that, and I font feel like spending another 20$ on wire when I have a bunch in the basement. 
How did everything turn out? 

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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> I hear that, and I font feel like spending another 20$ on wire when I have a bunch in the basement.


It worked out well. We now have two trains going around the track. My Kato GG1 seems to want to derail fairly easily. The BLI Mikado would go through almost anything we through at it, including pulling every car (around 25) that we had. You could tell it was straining because it cut the top speed way down, but I was surprised it pulled that many. After it made a lap pulling everything, we cut it back down to what it will normally pull. Of course, we are in the process of pulling the track apart again so we can glue the mat down. I think it might have been wrinkles in the mat causing bumps to make the GG1 derail.

Two engines still in the shop being fixed. The frame in the Kato E8A broke when they tried to upgrade it to DCC with sound, so they ordered a new frame and will replace it for us. My Kato F7 was working but blew the new speaker after about an hour. The LHS put a new speaker in and it started sounding bad after about ten minutes. We just took it back and they said they need to get with Tsunami about them possibly having a batch of bad speakers.

And the ice storm held up the delivery of my Amtrak train. It was originally supposed to be delivered Thursday (which I thought was pretty quick) but the FedEx tracking now says "Delayed due to weather until further notice." With the ice storm we are having now, I am not willing to drive the 35 miles to their office to get it, so I can't complain about them not driving out to me very much either. That package also had some of the scenery for the park end of the layout. It means my son has more time to finish his lake construction.


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## Aqualungs

Oh man ups and downs. I think the two 2 F7s I have, I'm going to do a Digitrax upgrade myself and then order the lok sound equipped B unit. Upgrade seemed pretty easy. I'm more after the DCC control than sound for now. But when I started out I was also ok with just a small oval track and no turnouts... Look what happened lol.
The Operation North Pole train I will probably leave DC and do a small oval under or by the tree. Seems like Kato is starting to put out some nice sound units.
I was pulling 10 hoppers, tanker, and a caboose. Up the viaduct 2 locos did the work easily. Even with 5 hoppers 1 F7 slowed quite a bit, can only imagine 25..
I can feel the storm heading this way.. back, hips, and knees sent me to the medicine cabinet. Weekend went quick... back to the grind tomorrow.

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## clovissangrail01

Aqualungs said:


> Made a quick video.


This is way cool. I love watching those little Bluebonnet and Yellowbonnet F-units That Could chug it up and around that viaduct and snake through those curves. 

Good job.


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## Aqualungs

Have half my feeders in and soldering 101 went well. I wanted my passing side to be a little longer, so my table needed wings. These are temporary fixes from wood scrap until I can get to the Depot. Waiting on a Brass sponge from Amazon to keep my tip cleaner. Gonna finish when it gets here tomorrow with my wire clips so I can clean this mess up, lol. Wifey and I share a vehicle for now, since I work from home, so getting to the store is a pain! She works crazy hours
Meanwhile I've been reading up on and watching videos on decoder installs on my F7s.






























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## Aqualungs

Fixed one side of the table extension and widened it for the passing lane. No sense in sending passengers and cargo over the side of the flat earth.. Just have to do the other side, but that side doesn't affect anything so no hurry.. I grabbed a 6ft piece of wood instead of 8.. typical me.. wasn't thinking right  
Only one more set of 3 feeders for the top left curves, and I have feeders every 3 feet. The viaduct ones were fun!
Now I only need to make feeders cables for the yard, spur, and passing side to be ready for DCC. Set them up but not power them, is the plan.. Maybe between the double crossovers. Waiting for the Zephyr Express to come back in stock and ordering it, and chips for my 2 F7s.
Also made an adapter with Tamiya connectors for 2 #6 turnouts to operate at once for the passing side. Works nice!
My back has been really tweaked so I will clean up the wiring with help of my brother, or when I'm feeling better. Time to enjoy 






























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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

AWW MAN, you ain't no fun by having your passengers arrive safely, I've seen plenty of movies where the train went off the side of the hill or the end of the bridge (not a purty sight and made a mess too LOL)

That viaduct feeder, why not send it down through the tower ? it would only take a small hole if one isn't already there

Just a thought, I'll un-stump myself now 

Oh, the Digitrax upgrade is simple, juss unplug the Kato DC controller and take the wire feeding and attach to the "Rail A and Rail B" slots. To program the decoders after install I took a straight section of track and soldered a set of wires to it and it/they go to the "Program A and B" slots


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> AWW MAN, you ain't no fun by having your passengers arrive safely, I've seen plenty of movies where the train went off the side of the hill or the end of the bridge (not a purty sight and made a mess too LOL)
> 
> That viaduct feeder, why not send it down through the tower ? it would only take a small hole if one isn't already there
> 
> Just a thought, I'll un-stump myself now


I actually took it apart and looked. I think when I finaalize the layout and put down foam board I will do that..
Need a few more trains and better insurance before I send em off to their maker. With 2 trains my risk pool is high, and rates are through the roof. Lol

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> I actually took it apart and looked. I think when I finaalize the layout and put down foam board I will do that..
> Need a few more trains and better insurance before I send em off to their maker. With 2 trains my risk pool is high, and rates are through the roof. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


I wanna see your version of the Addams Family Train Wreck LOL Install a safety net around the table

J/K


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I wanna see your version of the Addams Family Train Wreck LOL Install a safety net around the table
> 
> J/K


My brother already said I have to add a Beetlejuice section LOL

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## Steve Rothstein

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I wanna see your version of the Addams Family Train Wreck LOL Install a safety net around the table


I've told my son several times that I want the dynamite plunger next to the layout. I probably won't ever get to use it because, as @Aqualungs said, my risk pool is too small.

And, Aqualungs, I really like that layout. You did a good job in designing it. If you ever want to connect two turnouts to one Kato switch again, a quick easy way is to buy their cord extension. They make it to accept up to three plugs at one time and plug into one switch. I think it was originally designed for power, but it worked very well to keep two turnouts synchronized too.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> I've told my son several times that I want the dynamite plunger next to the layout. I probably won't ever get to use it because, as @Aqualungs said, my risk pool is too small.
> 
> And, Aqualungs, I really like that layout. You did a good job in designing it. If you ever want to connect two turnouts to one Kato switch again, a quick easy way is to buy their cord extension. They make it to accept up to three plugs at one time and plug into one switch. I think it was originally designed for power, but it worked very well to keep two turnouts synchronized too.


Thanks Steve! 
I think when I get foam down, the right curve I will lightly tack down, so I can extend into an L shape. I left the wooden curve extension unglued so I can just remove it, and put it on the end of the extension I build,
But I think it will make a fun industrial spur/train station area leading to the country (New area) and a mountain?
Can make it a game with my nephew to go so many times around each loop to reach a destination 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Can make it a game with my nephew to go so many times around each loop to reach a destination


Sounds like a plan, for me it would take 5 loops around to get back to the station / beginning point and it would be SO neat to have a mini-cam mounted either on the front of the loco or on a flatcar and have that video to post after the scenery is being worked on


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## Aqualungs

Zephyr Express, wireless module, and F7 decoders ordered. 
Going to purchase Scarm so I can finish and plan my final layout. Also getting foam board this week. Going to be an exciting couple of weeks! 

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## Aqualungs

Did you all put in new unijoiners before you glued down your track? Fifer mentioned it was a good idea to replace them or ir they are worn? I imagine they would only need it if they were taken apart and put together 10+ times? 
I did get some insulators for the turnout ends. I will be putting in feeders on the other side of the insulated turnouts

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

No, I used the same joiners all around for the most part, there were a few the the gap in the metal piece looked a bit wider, for those I robbed from unused track pieces I have here


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> No, I used the same joiners all around for the most part, there were a few the the gap in the metal piece looked a bit wider, for those I robbed from unused track pieces I have here


Perfect I figured just replace one that aren't happy. Lol

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

No sense in fissin' whut ain't broke


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> No sense in fissin' whut ain't broke


Agreed. That would be a bit expensive too! 
Had my nephew over, he has HO scale but he was loving the N scale. He swiped my Model Railroading book.. "Uncle Marty, can I take this home and read it." Yes.. yes. 

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## Aqualungs

Hope everyone is doing good. Back is feeling better, so my body decided to dislocated a bone in my foot, and the train table is in the basement lol. Slid down on my butt.. felt 8 again. 
Zephyr Express and decoders made it via UPS. I just need to add feeders and insulators to my spurs and yard. Passing side is all set. Added two more console trays to my table and the main wired will take no time. The center section will house my turnout switches. May get some done tonight and should be at the homestretch tomorrow.
Also ordered a DCC installed E5A to add to my Silver Streak whenever I can get my hands on one.. This is probably my favorite looking locomotive. 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Glad you're feeling better. Nice set of trays there, I'll be building a corner version. The E5A IS a sleek looking loco, will yours have the "fender skirts" ?? some had aero covers on the trucks


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## Aqualungs

Install went well, though I didn't feel so at first as one loco would not move and the other would only go one direction. I add the decoders and kapton tape was pretty simple. It was manual time. Was able to get the controller to talk to both chips and do basic basic setup, but the yellow bonnet didn't move. Long story short, light pressure on the grey clip and it moved forward. I tried to get better contact but the grey clip wasn't enough, so I used some wire sheath and kapton tape and voila. I think if there are any issues, I will put 30 awg jumpers like Fifer advised on his YouTube video, but I think this will work good!
Was up til 4 reading the manual.. good stuff. The decoder install was actually pretty fun and I enjoyed it. Just have to figure out how to get the trains to go in reverse. I thought I did the install was wrong or defect, but I noticed on the Zephyr screen it says " local throttle braking", so I just have to keep reading and fix the settings in the decoders or the Zephyr. About to log in for some overtime and then back to it. Have to finish my feeders and add insulators to the turnout ends.









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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Yeah, you mentioned Mike Fifer, good deal, I went with his video on the E5A and soldered two short wires on the tail end of the board and those were soldered to the flat copper pickups on either side then the motor pickups went bent over and soldered in place where the grey plug fits. You've seen mine running


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Oh, color of the little wires doesn't matter but they need to be stranded and small gauge. I redid my install and doubled up on the Kapton tape, I bought a roll of it to have on hand


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Oh, color of the little wires doesn't matter but they need to be stranded and small gauge. I redid my install and doubled up on the Kapton tape, I bought a roll of it to have on hand


Nice! Yea I'm going to order some 30 awg and if any issues arise, it was so easy to do, I'll go in and solder some jump wires.
I ordered a roll of kapton like Mike said, and glad I had the extra. 
If the price is right I will order DCC installed, but if I'm going to save $30-50 to do the install myself, I won't think twice. I really love the layers DC has added. So cool!

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Yeah the price jumps on DCC installed locos, I'll probably bite the bullet on the next one, whenever that time is, and get one with DCC and sound installed. Right now to get sound on what I have would be yet another set of decoders and machining of the loco frames for speakers which makes them lighter weight


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## Aqualungs

The E5 unit iI'm waiting on wasn't too bad, also had a 25 off coupon at ModelTrainStuff lol. Hopefully the TCS decoder works good.. I almost have yardmaster status so free shipping will sweeten the deal! I'm ok with 75-120ish for a loco.. otherwise I can wait lol. 
I find I am liking the 50s and older locos and definitely want a steam loco. 

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## Aqualungs

So far the only issue I am having is I can only throttle the locos in one direction.. reverse. But the locos are driving forward in reverse. So I need to change the direction in CV29. Thst part I get.. If I set the throttle to forward, the loco does not move. So far I am about halfway through the manual, and Google has been no help. I'm missing somethingor haven't read enough. 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

I don't remember the setting on my E5 but it should go forward no matter which way it's pointed. I say that only because I've been using the Kato controller on Jump-1 and it's running backwards, in other words reverse and it goes forward with headlight light and forward the light goes out and it runs reverse, might just need the wires crossed over from what they are

I don't have my program track hooked up at the moment so I can't tell you the CV numbers and again it might be the install, not making good contact without the wires soldered in place, I had a similar issue at first, light would come on but nothing else (we won't talk about the other two, SD70ACes, one went right in, the other was a hair pulling issue of DCC controller saying the program track was empty, got it fixed easy enough though)


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I don't remember the setting on my E5 but it should go forward no matter which way it's pointed. I say that only because I've been using the Kato controller on Jump-1 and it's running backwards, in other words reverse and it goes forward with headlight light and forward the light goes out and it runs reverse, might just need the wires crossed over from what they are
> 
> I don't have my program track hooked up at the moment so I can't tell you the CV numbers and again it might be the install, not making good contact without the wires soldered in place, I had a similar issue at first, light would come on but nothing else (we won't talk about the other two, SD70ACes, one went right in, the other was a hair pulling issue of DCC controller saying the program track was empty, got it fixed easy enough though)


Yes the loco moves forward with the Zephyr cab set at reverse. I can fix that in the CV menu 29. When I switch the Zephyr to forward and it doesn't go anywhere. Do you think thst is from the install? I plan on doing a CV8 to reset it and try over.
I switched over to DC and the locos went forward and backwards with the Kato pack. I also put a DC loco on the DCC 00 and it went forward and backward. Not something I want to make a habit of. I plan on ordering 30 awg wire and soldering leads. 


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## Aqualungs

Oh and this is for my 2 F7 bonnets. The E5 is DCC installed and gets here Wednesday 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Oh and this is for my 2 F7 bonnets. The E5 is DCC installed and gets here Wednesday
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


What CV29 value do you have programed in now ?


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## Aqualungs

It's just weird both locos are doing the same thing. They can only run one direction. Makes me think it's a setting on the Zephyr or the decoders need a factory reset. CV66 should also allow me to trim the forward throttle.
As you csn see it says throttle braking when aet ro forward.

Then throttle brake ends when set to reverse.
















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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Try this page to see what setting to input to decoder, me doing a SWAG here I came up with a 50 value

CV 29 Calculator | Train Control Systems (tcsdcc.com)


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> What CV29 value do you have programed in now ?


have it set at 34 now,and it goes in reverse now when set to reverse. Still nothing when set to forward 

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## Aqualungs

50 didn't change anything. What is "throttle braking," and why does it turn on when putting the throttle to forward?


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Try this on one to see if . . . . program in - enable 14 speed control, enable 4 digit address, no or analog off, enable Normal Direction Of Travel -Forward, disable Speed Table the number/value I come up with here is 32 using Digitrax CV29 calculator


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Not sure what throttle braking is but mine does / says that too


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Try this on one to see if . . . . program in - enable 14 speed control, enable 4 digit address, no or analog off, enable Normal Direction Of Travel -Forward, disable Speed Table the number/value I come up with here is 32 using Digitrax CV29 calculator


I will try this next. Wife is patronizing me.. sometimes I can't get 20 minutes to myself. Christ

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Don't feel too bad, it took me a bit to get the programming halfway understood and be glad you got someone to rag on ya, that way when you DO get it right and running you can say "see, I got it right"


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Don't feel too bad, it took me a bit to get the programming halfway understood and be glad you got someone to rag on ya, that way when you DO get it right and running you can say "see, I got it right"


Haha right!  should have put a smiley face after that. She just can't get enough of me lol 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Haha right!  should have put a smiley face after that. She just can't get enough of me lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Like with mine, we'll be in town and I'll mention needing a bottle of paint or something, she'll tell me I'm killing her with all these things but when I pull out my wallet she's like "I got it", go figure


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## Steve Rothstein

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> I don't remember the setting on my E5 but it should go forward no matter which way it's pointed. I say that only because I've been using the Kato controller on Jump-1 and it's running backwards, in other words reverse and it goes forward with headlight light and forward the light goes out and it runs reverse, might just need the wires crossed over from what they are


I did not have this problem so I don't know if this guess can help or not, but I agree with your supposition and would try flipping the wires from the dc power pack into the jump ports. My logic says that if it is reading the DC signal to determine what to send to it on the DCC side, flipping the polarity of the DC signal should reverse it. Quick and easy to try anyway.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> I did not have this problem so I don't know if this guess can help or not, but I agree with your supposition and would try flipping the wires from the dc power pack into the jump ports. My logic says that if it is reading the DC signal to determine what to send to it on the DCC side, flipping the polarity of the DC signal should reverse it. Quick and easy to try anyway.


I will try it. I haven't even tried using the Kato power pack to control anything. Only the Zephyr controls. Even in the quick setup and using 003 address, both locos would only go one direction. Going to disconnect the jump and ground connections for now. I'm wondering if the switch on the Zephyr is bad. Next I will try controlling with the jump throttle. I have thr wifi unit too, so I could try it with a phone.
In theory I'm guessing if thr Zephyr switch is bad, the kato power pack or phone should work.

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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> I will try it. I haven't even tried using the Kato power pack to control anything. Only the Zephyr controls. Even in the quick setup and using 003 address, both locos would only go one direction. Going to disconnect the jump and ground connections for now. I'm wondering if the switch on the Zephyr is bad. Next I will try controlling with the jump throttle. I have thr wifi unit too, so I could try it with a phone.
> In theory I'm guessing if thr Zephyr switch is bad, the kato power pack or phone should work.


Sorry, I was referring to Wookie's post where he said the E5 was running backwards on his jump throttle.

On yours where it only goes one direction, I think it has to be in the programming. I agree that if the Zephyr is bad, the jump throttle would also send a bad signal. The wifi might work because it isn't going through the Zephyr for encoding. 

The best way to make sure might be to wait until you get the factory DCC loco in. If it runs right, it has to be the decoders or the programming in those locos. I would hate to screw something up trying to debug a problem that is in the Zephyr itself. If you were close to me, I would bring one of mine that is known good over to see how it runs on your system. That is the one problem with this Covid and being spread out.


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## Aqualungs

Ok so Jump throttle 1 works perfect forward and reverse, so I'm guess the physical switch on the Zephyr is bad. Don't know why I didn't try this earlier. Well he'll I'm going to at least have fun with the Kato power pack.. sheesh.. I have the wifi unit too do I can use my phone for the other loco. Tha ks fellas for all the help lol

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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> Sorry, I was referring to Wookie's post where he said the E5 was running backwards on his jump throttle.
> 
> On yours where it only goes one direction, I think it has to be in the programming. I agree that if the Zephyr is bad, the jump throttle would also send a bad signal. The wifi might work because it isn't going through the Zephyr for encoding.
> 
> The best way to make sure might be to wait until you get the factory DCC loco in. If it runs right, it has to be the decoders or the programming in those locos. I would hate to screw something up trying to debug a problem that is in the Zephyr itself. If you were close to me, I would bring one of mine that is known good over to see how it runs on your system. That is the one problem with this Covid and being spread out.


All good! At least we figured it out. Glad we thought about trying the jump pack and wifi. For a while I thought I fried the decoders. I was super careful too lol 

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Yeah, the backwards running was through the Kato / Jump port, I still haven't swapped the wires on that no biggie. Since the issue is with the DCC Zephyr controller it has to be a programming issue. Best guess would be to take one F unit and reprogram it. Since it is a Digitrax controller (I think you said it was TCS decoders) I'd initially use the Digitrax CV29 calculator and set it to the following
-Standard 14 speed step control
-4 digit addressing (use the loco's cab number, if the same number then perhaps the 2nd loco's number be backwards 3850 becomes 0583)
-Analog OFF
-NDOT Forward (Normal Direction Of Travel)
-Speed Table Disabled
This would make the CV29 value set at 32 and you should have normal operation and lights working, if not you'll have to see what's the correct procedure for a TCS decoder. This is why I went with one company with both controller and the decoders, compatibility is assured


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Yeah, the backwards running was through the Kato / Jump port, I still haven't swapped the wires on that no biggie. Since the issue is with the DCC Zephyr controller it has to be a programming issue. Best guess would be to take one F unit and reprogram it. Since it is a Digitrax controller (I think you said it was TCS decoders) I'd initially use the Digitrax CV29 calculator and set it to the following
> -Standard 14 speed step control
> -4 digit addressing (use the loco's cab number, if the same number then perhaps the 2nd loco's number be backwards 3850 becomes 0583)
> -Analog OFF
> -NDOT Forward (Normal Direction Of Travel)
> -Speed Table Disabled
> This would make the CV29 value set at 32 and you should have normal operation and lights working, if not you'll have to see what's the correct procedure for a TCS decoder. This is why I went with one company with both controller and the decoders, compatibility is assured


These are Digitrax decoders. The physical switch is bad on the Zephyr. I have it set to CV29 set to 34 which was the reccomended by digitrax as 28/128 for maximum smoothness. Using jump port 1 both locos work perfect. If I switch them to the locothrottle forward does not work. I'll have to contact Digitrax. Setting up the wifi ans I'm betting it works perfect too

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## Aqualungs

Wifi local net hooked up and both locos work perfectly. Little bit of a bummer. Like Wooky suggests, maybe there's a setting in the Zephyr causing this. It shows no % increase of throttle when switched to forward when adding throttle. Reverse it will give me a percentage. No clue, but for now I can have some fun sheesh. All this fussing I have feeders to finish lol

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## Aqualungs

Man this is so much more fun. Let a train run, go to another get it moving.. yes. Hopefully ModelTrainStuff will let me just order a new unit and send this one back. I don't want to go back to DC and wait lol. 
Set the CV3 and CV4 to a nice start/stop feel. The Blue Bonnet, I need to dial its power down bit. Until tomato

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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Ok so Jump throttle 1 works perfect forward and reverse, so I'm guess the physical switch on the Zephyr is bad. Don't know why I didn't try this earlier. Well he'll I'm going to at least have fun with the Kato power pack.. sheesh.. I have the wifi unit too do I can use my phone for the other loco. Tha ks fellas for all the help lol


Glad this worked for you.Now you know your locomotive installation worked, and you can control trains and have some fun. I would suggest calling Digitrax about the Zephyr and see if they can get it repaired or replaced for you. It is new enough that it should still be under warranty, right? I hate to test it, but with their stated warranty for one year, I bet they have faith in their product and can get it fixed. It looks like they have a fairly decent on-line tech support that might also be able to help.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> Glad this worked for you.Now you know your locomotive installation worked, and you can control trains and have some fun. I would suggest calling Digitrax about the Zephyr and see if they can get it repaired or replaced for you. It is new enough that it should still be under warranty, right? I hate to test it, but with their stated warranty for one year, I bet they have faith in their product and can get it fixed. It looks like they have a fairly decent on-line tech support that might also be able to help.


Right! It was delivered yesterday from ModelTrainStuff. I would imagine they should exchange it, but I read of reviews of people contacting Digitrax, which is what I'll probably have to do according to the manual and possibly send it back. That would be a huge bummer. We shall see. I'll try MB Klein first and see if they can administer some stellar customer service.

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

A bummer that you have a glitched unit but Digitrax has an outstanding warranty, ANYTHING goes wrong and it's a free replacement. Kinda like I've read about Rolls Royce, take your car in to fix something and get it back the same day and being told they couldn't find anything wrong, and the problem is no longer there LOL


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> A bummer that you have a glitched unit but Digitrax has an outstanding warranty, ANYTHING goes wrong and it's a free replacement


I am glad that at least I didn't fry decoders and I did good, lol. Learned a lot too. At least today I can fart around bit. It's been all business lately and put in quite a bit of overtime. 
A replacement would be nice, I'll even pay for another unit to be sent, and send the otheback for a refund. 

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## Aqualungs

So it's looking like I will have to send the Zephry Express to Digitrax. I tried a factory reset and that didnt work. Forward worked once, but as soon as I hit stop is still kept moving. I cut the throttle then hit reverse l. Hit forward again, and 0%. The throttle percentage still show 0% when opening it even all the ay up. Meanwhile on my jumper throttle and wifi via cell phone everything works. I've been having fun with CVs. I read both manuals and have familarized myself with a lot of cool functions. I activated Yard speed F6, set a nice delay with CV 3 & 4, and set 3 speed throttle with Cvs 2,5, & 6. O have to reread others.. Anticipating stops, as well as no rushed throttle, gives everything a whole new feel and fun factor. I am going to wait until tomorrow for my E5 unit to send the Zephry back or whatever happens. I want to have a little more fun and set up the CVs and make sure it works ok.
Talking to Digitrax they promised a 48 hr turnaround time when fixed or replaced. They were very understanding and helpful. I only reflected sadness to lose DCC fun for a few days lol. 
The Wifi unit is excpetional and easily setup, I love it.
I guess this will give me some time to put foam down, that I should have done right away. I have all my feeders in and put insulators on main turnouts and repowered after the turnout. Everything seems smooth! I am happy with this layout, I was thinking of taking the inner circle out, but I am going to keep it like that and put a mountain between the yard and the spurs to creat a divider. It will keep the front scenic and the back all business.. That will give me a place of operations, hide the circle a bit and create a nice hub to do freight operations, while passenger trains and freights run on the other 2 lines to their destinations. 
The outer right curves will be removed when I expand to an L, and the viaduct will continue to higher elevation and the other will stay at current elevation. 
Meanwhile the right spur on the original table will connect to a viaduct passing over the operations oval to a higher elevation with a few dropouts/pickups and spurs on the new table expanding freignt operations.  
The passing side on the original table will have a station with waiting areas on both sides of the tracks. There will be a cool Mainstreet area with a theatre, and other fun stuff for people to do. The oval track will pads thru that.. Maybe a few townhowns. I'm think heavy influence for 50s-60s. I love all the older locomotives and buildings, so Iam goign to try and get kits and stay away from modern buildings, even though this could be current times in a way. The extension table will have another station and passing sides for trains coming and going like the other one. A lot less swtiches and turnouts on this side. Maybe a yard. I will also create a few tunnels and some raised land mass/rocks where in spots viaduct track and piers won't be necessary. 
Hope you all are well! 


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## Big Ed

I always say, plan on expansion if you can.
Or use all the space you can afford from the get go.
The larger the better.


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## Aqualungs

Big Ed said:


> I always say, plan on expansion if you can.
> Or use all the space you can afford from the get go.
> The larger the better.


Right! I M actually going to leave the left side last to detail and not glue down the curves if I decide to do a U shape lol!

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## Steve Rothstein

Big Ed said:


> I always say, plan on expansion if you can.
> Or use all the space you can afford from the get go.
> The larger the better.


I am definitely seeing the wisdom of both sides of this. My son and I were discussing how crowded the 4x8 table we have is going to get and thinking of maybe expanding it by putting another 4x8 across to form an L shaped table. The problem is that his wife insists on parking her car in the garage if a hailstorm comes in (which happens a lot on San Antonio) so we have no more room. We have used all the space we have right now.


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## Big Ed

Steve Rothstein said:


> I am definitely seeing the wisdom of both sides of this. My son and I were discussing how crowded the 4x8 table we have is going to get and thinking of maybe expanding it by putting another 4x8 across to form an L shaped table. The problem is that his wife insists on parking her car in the garage if a hailstorm comes in (which happens a lot on San Antonio) so we have no more room. We have used all the space we have right now.


Build a carport. 
Hail does some damage, that is for sure!
But it would be an excuse to get a new car.


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## Aqualungs

Priorities right Big Ed? Haha

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Bummer on having to send in the DCC but at least it will be a quick turn-around. When I sent a decoder to them it was only gone 5 days but Florida is like next door from here

If I didn't have the upright deepfreeze in the front room I would have seriously considered a "U" shaped layout (MAYBE even a bullet train LOL)


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Bummer on having to send in the DCC but at least it will be a quick turn-around. When I sent a decoder to them it was only gone 5 days but Florida is like next door from here
> 
> If I didn't have the upright deepfreeze in the front room I would have seriously considered a "U" shaped layout (MAYBE even a bullet train LOL)


Agreed. Bummer have to pay for shipping, but they said they would reimburse if it wasn't my fault I guess. I was hoping ModelTrainStuff would send me a new one and take this issue up with Digitrax, but I get there is so much user error with these things, they'd go broke.
I tried to reflash it and reinstalled the software but it didn't work. Loco went forward, hit brake.. still goes forward.. let off the throttle. Forward stops working as soon as you use reverse. Guessing a short or wire crossed in the unit


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## Aqualungs

Speaking of track extending, Kato's flexible track is coming out in spring. I think I will us it on my expansion. Won't be as tedious getting curves to connect nicely 

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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Speaking of track extending, Kato's flexible track is coming out in spring. I think I will us it on my expansion. Won't be as tedious getting curves to connect nicely


I am intrigued by their flex track and considering using it for my next layout. My problem is I do not think I am good enough to make my own turnouts and they are not making any other than Unitrack. I like their adapter sections but I do not think I could get the flex sections to look right with the Unitrack. I would have to use something like the Peco turnouts. I am just considering it and trying to decide for the future.


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Yeah, I'll agree 100% on the user error because after sending a decoder to them and getting it back it was still not being read by the program section UNTIL I wedged that little piece of foam up under the front of the board. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has had that problem and sent in a good board. I like their warranty of basically it's covered, your fault, their fault, nobody's fault, it's covered for a year


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Yeah, I'll agree 100% on the user error because after sending a decoder to them and getting it back it was still not being read by the program section UNTIL I wedged that little piece of foam up under the front of the board. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has had that problem and sent in a good board. I like their warranty of basically it's covered, your fault, their fault, nobody's fault, it's covered for a year


Right, as discouraged as I may be, I can see how they have a ton of user error or small silly stuff that takes up alot of time.

@steve, good points on the turnouts. Iwasn't planing on building them, but the Kato ones should work with the flextrack, but it may look weird until roadbed is down. Iwas thinking I would trty the Peco turnouts for the new section if Ithink the kato ones look ridiculous lol

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## Aqualungs

Received my TCS DCC equipped Silver Pilot E5 Quincey and attached it to the Operation North Pole so my special kiddos can ride year round! I think the E5 looks good with these cars.. more magical experience for me.. if I were a kid.. Very smooth runner! Did the basic programming and let her loose. I will have to print out TCS decoder guide and make some fixes.
I guess tomorrow I will send the Zephry out to Digitrax. I have foam board in the garage and can start finalizing my layout and prep adapter wires for my turnouts. My momentary switch setup should arrive any day now.
I have the option of turning the analog on in the locos, while the Zephyr is being sorted out. Not sure if I will.. what you guys think?





































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## Steve Rothstein

I still prefer the F-7s myself, but that is a good looking loco and fits those cars pretty well, almost as if they were designed for it.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> I still prefer the F-7s myself, but that is a good looking loco and fits those cars pretty well, almost as if they were designed for it.


I think the F7s and E5 are my favorite period. In fact I'm not too big on getting modern locos.. so far. I plan on getting the red Alco PA-1, Red F7, and Yellow Union Pacific F7. 
Agreed the E5 looks much better than the F40PH with those passenger cars. 


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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> I think the F7s and E5 are my favorite period. In fact I'm not too big on getting modern locos.. so far. I plan on getting the red Alco PA-1, Red F7, and Yellow Union Pacific F7.
> Agreed the E5 looks much better than the F40PH with those passenger cars.


I am thinking I want to start collecting F7s next. Any road name and any paint scheme will do, but my first goal is to get all four Santa Fe paint schemes. I have to do more research to see which ones were actually on F7s, but the Cigar Band and Blue Bonnet would make an interesting set. I already have the War Bonnet and the Yellow Bonnet is still easy to find. Then start adding other lines. I can probably swing one a month if I can find them, and if I don't try to buy matching rolling stock for them.


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## clovissangrail01

I love that Silver Bullet E5. Here it is pulling the CB&Q Silver Streak Zephyr past the Prairie City Viaduct.

Silver Streak Zephyr

The real Silver Streak Zephyr was a short haul luxury train that ran from Lincoln, Nebraska, to Kansas City with stops in Omaha, St. Joseph, and of course, Prairie City Union Station.

A beautiful train -- Here's the full-sized version-- CB&Q Silver Streak Zephyr


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## Aqualungs

clovissangrail01 said:


> I love that Silver Bullet E5. Here it is pulling the CB&Q Silver Streak Zephyr past the Prairie City Viaduct.
> 
> Silver Streak Zephyr
> 
> The real Silver Streak Zephyr was a short haul luxury train that from Lincoln, Nebraska, to Kansas City with stops in Omaha, St. Joseph, and of course, Prairie City Union Station.
> 
> A beautiful train -- Here's the prototype -- CB&Q Silver Streak Zephyr


Definitely my favorite train so far and have been eyeballing it since January. They're supposed to re-release this month, and have been checking stock everyday. This is the set I have to have lol


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## Aqualungs

Sending the Zephyr out today, should have it back by Friday next week. Decided to not set the locos to analog while in for repairs. Time to tear down and put foam board down. Made a quick video of the new E5 running. 






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## Aqualungs

Here's a video of the problem. Forward works once after a factory reset. 






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## Aqualungs

Foam board is done. Used Acrylic latex caulk and weight it down. Sanded real nice with the palm. Gonna start laying track today. I made the ends of table removable for expansion on each side.
I did a test piece to the foam with acrylic latex and it held nice and pulled and cleaned up without damage, so I am going to use that.
Also my swtich setup will be here today. 


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## Aqualungs

Used clear acrylic latex on foam, and decided on Elmer's clear washable for the track. Easy to put down and easy to take. Did a test piece and read about it online. up.









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## TommyB

Nice clean work !


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## Aqualungs

Thanks Tommy B. I lost track of time yesterday and finished laying most of the track. The Elmer's worked good as I forgot to work in the rerailers/road crossing so I had to pull up track. It was dried but came up perfect and easy, not damaging the foam or track, and easy to clean off. 
Need to make a feeder for that spur and I can start working on the viaduct. Waiting on two 315 curves also.
I picked up a foam carver/tool from Amazon, and looking forward to making a mountain, tunnels, and and rockscapes. Some of the piers on the viaduct I plan to switch out with raised land mass or rocks in some spots. Also will hide any holes and cracks. 
I will probably get inspiration from my Colorado photos.
Working a little overtime today, and then back to it.









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## TommyB

Does that tray holding your controls slide in and out like a drawer? I was thinking of doing something similar but I have a table that I use as a workbench that sits below the layout, and I slide it under the layout when not in use (in other words, never). Of course the table/workbench is always cluttered, which would make it difficult to use a sliding tray/drawer for my controls like I had originally thought about. I ended up using a panel idea instead, but I am still rolling that drawer thing around in my head. Anyway, as I said before, very nice clean work you have there! It's always my intention to be very neat and tidy, but that always seems to slip away from me.


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## Aqualungs

TommyB said:


> Does that tray holding your controls slide in and out like a drawer? I was thinking of doing something similar but I have a table that I use as a workbench that sits below the layout, and I slide it under the layout when not in use (in other words, never). Of course the table/workbench is always cluttered, which would make it difficult to use a sliding tray/drawer for my controls like I had originally thought about. I ended up using a panel idea instead, but I am still rolling that drawer thing around in my head. Anyway, as I said before, very nice clean work you have there! It's always my intention to be very neat and tidy, but that always seems to slip away from me.


That would have been a great idea! But they are adjustable at least.. I could always rework it.. my plan is the Digitrax Zephyr will go on the far left spot, and the Kato jumper on the far right. The center will be for switches once I get that put together. I have wire adapters to make for the turnouts so I don't have to snip the connectors off. 
I always start out good, but I don't know when to rest or stop and like last night.. this morning it was 3:30 am.. forgot about daylight savings time.. I goofed on a wire cross.. also glad I used this glue, as it got in the turnout manual switches, but released after manually opening/closing them and voila.. oops. 
I'm glad I used unijoiner isolators at the turnouts, as it created district's and I had 1 wire that was flipped. It was super easy to find, because I tested each district as I reconnected feeder wires to the buss. I have 1 loco still DC, so I ran that loco up to each isolator letting it run into the isolator cutting its. Everything is powered and good to go. I just need my Zephyr back, meanwhile I have to make rock formations for the viaduct 

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## TommyB

Aqualungs said:


> That would have been a great idea! But they are adjustable at least.. I could always rework it.. my plan is the Digitrax Zephyr will go on the far left spot, and the Kato jumper on the far right. The center will be for switches once I get that put together. I have wire adapters to make for the turnouts so I don't have to snip the connectors off.
> I always start out good, but I don't know when to rest or stop and like last night.. this morning it was 3:30 am.. forgot about daylight savings time.. I goofed on a wire cross.. also glad I used this glue, as it got in the turnout manual switches, but released after manually opening/closing them and voila.. oops.
> I'm glad I used unijoiner isolators at the turnouts, as it created district's and I had 1 wire that was flipped. It was super easy to find, because I tested each district as I reconnected feeder wires to the buss. I have 1 loco still DC, so I ran that loco up to each isolator letting it run into the isolator cutting its. Everything is powered and good to go. I just need my Zephyr back, meanwhile I have to make rock formations for the viaduct
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


LOL....I'm glad I am retired. No need to burn the midnight oil and "forgetting" how late it is. I have a tendency, no make that a preference, to hop around from one thing to another. I might be working on some wiring, and then hop to some building construction, or some aspect of scenery making. I never work in straight lines, it seems. But that's the beauty of this hobby. So many different things involved. I do have all my track down and trains running, but I still have to install motors on a couple if switches (crawling under the layout...the worst part of this hobby), and run some track to an industry or two. I've been testing my skills and limits in the various aspects of model railroading and for the most part I am pleased and satisfied. Much thanks to this forum for pointing me in the right direction from time to time. You are doing some nice work.


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## Aqualungs

TommyB said:


> LOL....I'm glad I am retired. No need to burn the midnight oil and "forgetting" how late it is. I have a tendency, no make that a preference, to hop around from one thing to another. I might be working on some wiring, and then hop to some building construction, or some aspect of scenery making. I never work in straight lines, it seems. But that's the beauty of this hobby. So many different things involved. I do have all my track down and trains running, but I still have to install motors on a couple if switches (crawling under the layout...the worst part of this hobby), and run some track to an industry or two. I've been testing my skills and limits in the various aspects of model railroading and for the most part I am pleased and satisfied. Much thanks to this forum for pointing me in the right direction from time to time. You are doing some nice work.


Thanks Tommy, yea Its hard to believe how much knowledge has been aquired in the last few months. I have learned alot. 
There is just enough room for me to sit indian style under the table. Was down there cleaning up wiring on my lunch break and my hip got a bit angry. When I first started wornking down there i was kneeling on one knee with my hip cocked. Bad idea. made my back pretty angry, and my left leg numb for some time. Bad idea when you have discs removed and your lumbar fused. I need to put a timer on and limit myself to 20 minutesd under there...

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## Aqualungs

Track all glued in, and somehow one of the piers landed smack dab on top of the spur track. Maybe before I was a little off on some angles. Anyways let's call it a happy accident. Cut a few test foam pieces and I think it will work out fine.






























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## TommyB

I see what you mean with that one pier. Looks like you found a good solution. Overall looks like a well-thought out plan.


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## Aqualungs

I did the layout in scarm, but I must have angled certain track pieces just enough to.. Oh weell.. I like the foam cutters impressions on the foam and should make the viaduct more stable with more sourface area. I am going to make a little bit bigger piece to fit in that spot. But I kinda like it.

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## Aqualungs

Oh I also added another set of viaduct curve track
Looks much better. Now I have a roundy round of track for the xmas tree. 

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## Aqualungs

Good news from Digitrax, my Zephyr is repaired and sending back to me today. I'm guessing a crossed wire or short on the switch. They only said it was repaired, and good enough. Very quick turnaround considering they received it Monday. Should have it back Thursday or Friday.  Great timing.
BTW I did not receive the switches yet. That was my wife's package lol

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## Aqualungs

Haven't had much time to work on things.. dang migraines. Feeling a little better and having some fun with this foam cutting too. The issue with the pier is fixed. I'm sure in the real world this might not happen,but in mine it does. Able to hide my viaduct feeder wires,and replaced the piers with sturdier foam rocks lol
















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## Steve Rothstein

I like the tunnel solution. And it could be hidden/camouflaged in when you do the scenery and landscaping. I would probably end up putting more rocks in that area to help hide the reason for those posts.


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## Aqualungs

Definitely some more variations size and height like you said. I think a larger piece on one of the piers also. I'm going to do the larger dividing mountain down the center first and then work my way out. This will help hide the oval.

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## Aqualungs

Not sure if I'm going to pull the trigger or wait, but the 20th century limited sets with 2 DCC locos and unlit 9 car set can be had for 430 shipped. 
The Silver Streak set was 199 or 250 for the DCC 6 car set, but ModelTrainStuff has removed the item sku, most likely for re-release the end of this month. Kato is listing at 330 but will most likely be cheaper. 
2 DCC locos and 9 cars for 430 doesn't seem too bad.

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

clovissangrail01 said:


> I love that Silver Bullet E5. Here it is pulling the CB&Q Silver Streak Zephyr past the Prairie City Viaduct.
> 
> Silver Streak Zephyr
> 
> The real Silver Streak Zephyr was a short haul luxury train that ran from Lincoln, Nebraska, to Kansas City with stops in Omaha, St. Joseph, and of course, Prairie City Union Station.
> 
> A beautiful train -- Here's the full-sized version-- CB&Q Silver Streak Zephyr


Agreed and notice those "fender skirts" on the Streak's loco, that was one thing that other similar locos didn't have


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Haven't had much time to work on things.. dang migraines. Feeling a little better and having some fun with this foam cutting too. The issue with the pier is fixed. I'm sure in the real world this might not happen,but in mine it does. Able to hide my viaduct feeder wires,and replaced the piers with sturdier foam rocks lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


My thinking in the real world that they would build a series of piers and girders to support the upper tracks with the piers going between the lower. Here in Atlanta by the Congress Center they have rail lines going under some buildings, some are freight some are MARTA Rail. I remember back when I was driving a rock truck there was a building going in and we were told not to back up past a certain point, the reason was that there was nothing but a pile of styrofoam and a layer of dirt to keep us out of the MARTA Tunnel, the plan was to tie in rebar to the piers and pour concrete then more rebar and concrete as the "basement" of the new building


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## Aqualungs

Decided to hold off on the 20th Century and get on the tail end of releases to save some money. I ended up ordering the EMD E8 400 Bilevel set with Loksound for 260. I figure if I'm ever going to try out and see if I want sound now is the time, and I couldn't pass up the price. I have a soft spot for the 60s and older EMD E series lol. If I like the sound I can wait for the Silver Streak Zephyr in Loksound. By that time I will have a 50$ off coupon and free shipping with ModelTrainStuff. 
Also picked up my first building kit. I have plenty of acrylic paint, but need to pick a decent model cement. Ice read testors thin is good? 


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Agreed and notice those "fender skirts" on the Streak's loco, that was one thing that other similar locos didn't have


Same here, just a sexy beast

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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> My thinking in the real world that they would build a series of piers and girders to support the upper tracks with the piers going between the lower. Here in Atlanta by the Congress Center they have rail lines going under some buildings, some are freight some are MARTA Rail. I remember back when I was driving a rock truck there was a building going in and we were told not to back up past a certain point, the reason was that there was nothing but a pile of styrofoam and a layer of dirt to keep us out of the MARTA Tunnel, the plan was to tie in rebar to the piers and pour concrete then more rebar and concrete as the "basement" of the new building


I am going to at least make that piece come out more. Used pieces of scrap for all the rocks so far. Nerd to watch more you tube also ans decide what type of mountains I want, climate, and season. To make things more believable in my made up land, need to make some bigger rocks and vary sizes around them. 
I may start working on the mountain base tonight. Getting ready to do 2 hours of OT and probably rest. My arthritis flared quite a bit, and I'm having some cognitive issues and headaches from a bad knock to the head a couple years ago. Bwen symptom free for months. Nothing lasts forever, I agreed I would try and get more rest until better. No fun lol

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Same here, just a sexy beast
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Yeah, just over a year ago after I watched a boatload of videos of people's garden trains, inside trains, and the oh so famous Porsche train in Germany I did some research and found Kato was one of the better all around and then found the Silver Streak Zephyr Starter Set by Kato on Amazon for like 160 bucks or so, I dropped the hammer on it and then watched the prices go through the roof, one time even seeing one for just over $300. I'm glad I snagged mine when I did


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Yeah, just over a year ago after I watched a boatload of videos of people's garden trains, inside trains, and the oh so famous Porsche train in Germany I did some research and found Kato was one of the better all around and then found the Silver Streak Zephyr Starter Set by Kato on Amazon for like 160 bucks or so, I dropped the hammer on it and then watched the prices go through the roof, one time even seeing one for just over $300. I'm glad I snagged mine when I did


Right! And I doubt the re-release will cost the 200$ for the DCC model, that they just took down from ModelTrainStuff website. I was on the email list for 2 months lol. That anz they took down the Alco PA1.
I just wanted one more passenger train for my layout. So I just ordered the E8 400 bilevel. Cool history and the club car also has a DCC chip



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## Aqualungs

At least I do have an E5 with red stripes.. it was really about the loco

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Aqualungs said:


> Right! And I doubt the re-release will cost the 200$ for the DCC model, that they just took down from ModelTrainStuff website. I was on the email list for 2 months lol. That anz they took down the Alco PA1. I just wanted one more passenger train for my layout. So I just ordered the E8 400 bilevel. Cool history and the club car also has a DCC chip Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk





Aqualungs said:


> Right! And I doubt the re-release will cost the 200$ for the DCC model, that they just took down from ModelTrainStuff website. I was on the email list for 2 months lol. That anz they took down the Alco PA1. I just wanted one more passenger train for my layout. So I just ordered the E8 400 bilevel. Cool history and the club car also has a DCC chip Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk





Aqualungs said:


> Right! And I doubt the re-release will cost the 200$ for the DCC model, that they just took down from ModelTrainStuff website. I was on the email list for 2 months lol. That anz they took down the Alco PA1. I just wanted one more passenger train for my layout. So I just ordered the E8 400 bilevel. Cool history and the club car also has a DCC chip Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Aggravating as bull-snot to see something listed as "there" not only online but also at the brick stores in town only to order or drive up there and . . . . . . empty shelf


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## Aqualungs

Zephyr made it back today, and of course had to log back into work 5 min later, but I hooked it up quick and tested it. So far happy to report my train can now go forwards and backwards  The repair order said, "no booster plug." Glad to have it back. Cleaned my locos and car wheels during some idle moments. I already cleaned the track so doing the wheels at the same time. Using a piece of track, rerailer, and shop towel. Works good and if I stay on top of it should stay pretty clean.
Going to sculp some mountains tonight.. maybe. Did 14 hours of overtime and about 4 more tomorrow. Money talks.. Was already messing with scraps to guess the height I want to make them, so I can hide operations a bit and the oval loop. I am going to make mountains similar to places I've been in colorado, but I may make the stonework grey not rust red.

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## Aqualungs

Started working on the mountains. I'm not going to change much with the texture, I like the marks the foam cutter made. This will look nice with grey stone and green plant life. Should have the mountains carved out and plenty of scrap for smaller stone formations.

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## Aqualungs

Halfway there. I may hollow out parts of the mountain before flying to save some weight. Going to cap off the mountains tomorrow.. Maybe tonight lol























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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Halfway there. I may hollow out parts of the mountain before flying to save some weight. Going to cap off the mountains tomorrow.. Maybe tonight lol
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Aqualungs;

I really like your mountains used as a scenic divider in the middle of your layout  Is the gap between mountains intended to hold a river to pass under your silver truss bridge? If so, you might curve the end near the yard in your last photo to block the view of the yard, or you could put a backdrop between the yard and the mountain.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

I have been toying with the idea of small a river or small lake by the truss Bridge. I think I can manipulate both mountains a little more to close in the gap and hide the yard. If not I will curve the back structure. 

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## vette-kid

I love your progress. I did mountains the same way your are. I wish I had used something to conceal the layers more, you can see the definite line in places. It doesn't blend into the layout real well because it's a kid friendly layout. The mountain was made to be removable. A little putty of shine kind on the seams might help blend the layers better.









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## Steve Rothstein

vette-kid said:


> I love your progress. I did mountains the same way your are. I wish I had used something to conceal the layers more, you can see the definite line in places. It doesn't blend into the layout real well because it's a kid friendly layout. The mountain was made to be removable. A little putty of shine kind on the seams might help blend the layers better.


I like the mesa with the waterfall. That is a neat idea. And I have seen some cliffs in Utah that look almost that stratified in the sandstone. They were all red rock but I wouldn't let that bother you too much. Just tell anyone who asks that it is still a work in progress and that they are more than welcome to come help. I bet they stop criticizing it.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> I like the mesa with the waterfall. That is a neat idea. And I have seen some cliffs in Utah that look almost that stratified in the sandstone. They were all red rock but I wouldn't let that bother you too much. Just tell anyone who asks that it is still a work in progress and that they are more than welcome to come help. I bet they stop criticizing it.


I was going for the red Rock look and the layered stratification. The foam cutter made perfect marks so I went with it.. Was also looking at making a toilet paper mountain like I saw on YouTube. We drove to Colorado in 2017, and I fell in love with all the landscapes. 
I think if vegetaion is worked into those flats spots those sediment spots will be on point. Ireally want to do the rockwork grey, but may end up matching red rockwork with Colorado. Istill think Imay go that route, with fall colors









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## Aqualungs

vette-kid said:


> I love your progress. I did mountains the same way your are. I wish I had used something to conceal the layers more, you can see the definite line in places. It doesn't blend into the layout real well because it's a kid friendly layout. The mountain was made to be removable. A little putty of shine kind on the seams might help blend the layers better.
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The color of the water looks great  I may have to do a small lake under the Silver bridge now lol!! 

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## vette-kid

Aqualungs said:


> The color of the water looks great  I may have to do a small lake under the Silver bridge now lol!!
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> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Thanks! If you're going to match that photo, I think your right on target, can't wait to see it!

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## Aqualungs

Did a little more last night, went to the basement to run few trains before I log into work for a but.
















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## Aqualungs

vette-kid said:


> Thanks! If you're going to match that photo, I think your right on target, can't wait to see it!
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> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


It was definitely a happy accident when I pulled apart the foam. Saved me time, money, and a possible mess 

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## Aqualungs

Worked the far right tunnel and made a permanent structure/tunnel for my pier mistake. And most importantly ran some trains and enjoyed.























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## Aqualungs

Have some Conifer and fall foliage tree kits coming as well as a few buildings. I ordered the armatures and foliage so I could make the trees myself. Much cheaper and cooler. 

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## vette-kid

Looking good!

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## Aqualungs

Did some more rockwork last night. Also worked more on Sickens Prefab Tire factory. Lots of parts and fine detailing to do. Glad I didn't order a bunch of these kits they would be sitting as I take my time to do them right.
I've finally slowed to a nice pace and am at a spot in my setup where I feel I can take my time and progress at a nice pace. 
The new Loksound EMD 8 400 Pullman Bilevel train is great. Photos don't do it justice, it is a nice train. The sound is pretty sweet and loud enough for such a small package. The startup, idle, and low revs is my favorite part. The startup, decel, and acceleration CV factory settings are perfect. I'm going to have to read and write down the CV number settings to help get my E5 close to the same characteristics. 
The FL21 cab coach I programmed blindly on the program track and CV calculator. I programmed it to 5022 like the loco programming CVs:
17 - 211
18 - 158
29 - 38

Works perfect in forward and reverse, as well as 0 to turn off all lights.

























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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Did some more rockwork last night. Also worked more on Sickens Prefab Tire factory. Lots of parts and fine detailing to do. Glad I didn't order a bunch of these kits they would be sitting as I take my time to do them right.
> I've finally slowed to a nice pace and am at a spot in my setup where I feel I can take my time and progress at a nice pace.
> The new Loksound EMD 8 400 Pullman Bilevel train is great. Photos don't do it justice, it is a nice train. The sound is pretty sweet and loud enough for such a small package. The startup, idle, and low revs is my favorite part. The startup, decel, and acceleration CV factory settings are perfect. I'm going to have to read and write down the CV number settings to help get my E5 close to the same characteristics.
> The FL21 cab coach I programmed blindly on the program track and CV calculator. I programmed it to 5022 like the loco programming CVs:
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Sounds like you are doing things right to me. Work at an enjoyable pace. I am glad you were able to get the Fl12 decoder programmed properly. I did not understand how to do it with the CVs and could not get the quick programming section of the Zephyr to work with it. Had to take it back to the LHS to get it done. I have to agree that the C&NW train is a great model and mine works very nicely with the DCC installed.

I am trying to learn more about the CV programming now, and the speed tables are going to be the first thing I do. L like MichaelE's suggestion of setting them to run at proper scale speeds.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> Sounds like you are doing things right to me. Work at an enjoyable pace. I am glad you were able to get the Fl12 decoder programmed properly. I did not understand how to do it with the CVs and could not get the quick programming section of the Zephyr to work with it. Had to take it back to the LHS to get it done. I have to agree that the C&NW train is a great model and mine works very nicely with the DCC installed.
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I used option 2, then 2 for use program track. The quick CV programming won't work I'm that it won't read. It also will not read In CV programming mode.. Because the cab car has low voltage and the Zephyr maybe looking for something with a motor. So you need to used rhe programming track and then program cv by it's number and blindly. The 3 that you need to change are CVs 17, 18, and 29. You can use the numbers I used if you name the loco 5022. Basically 17 and 18 tell the DCC it's loco 5022 or running with 5022. 29 programs the lights to do what order you want. In my case, red tail lights when going forward, and white when going reverse which is forward for the cab car. It's really just a light decoder. Otherwise both lights would stay on or off. I found this gem online and It held me understand 









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## Aqualungs

Sorry CV 29 enables use of 4 digit address.

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## Aqualungs

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## Steve Rothstein

Aqualungs said:


> Sorry CV 29 enables use of 4 digit address.


I thought CV29 was a control switch where each byte meant a different option on or off. I thought I set it at 34 using the quick programmer to indicate use the 28 step speed chart and use the 4 digit address. I don't have the Zephyr handy to check it right now though.

I like the way that E8 sounds though. I bought mine as analog from Kato and then bought a Tsunami decoder with sound for it. It works well, but I like that sound better than mine. I am going to tweak the sound soon though, increasing the volume a little and selecting which bell and whistle to use.


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## Aqualungs

Steve Rothstein said:


> I thought CV29 was a control switch where each byte meant a different option on or off. I thought I set it at 34 using the quick programmer to indicate use the 28 step speed chart and use the 4 digit address. I don't have the Zephyr handy to check it right now though.
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That was for the FL12 chip in the cab car. It doesn't have motor so I guess CV 29 enables CV 17 & 18 to turn on, which unlocks the 4 digit address. 
For the locos it's what you said for the speed step from what I remember. Manual is downstairs lol

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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca

Good deal on the sound you now have there and also getting your locos programmed 🚅


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## Aqualungs

Wooky_Choo_Bacca said:


> Good deal on the sound you now have there and also getting your locos programmed


I am actually impressed, not something I will always look for and buy, but priced like that, definitely worth it!Finished painting the main building on this Woodlands Pre fab kit. I am very happy with the detail and quality of the kit. Alot of detail.

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## TommyB

Is that the Woodland Scenics Sicken Tire building? Looks great!


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## Aqualungs

TommyB said:


> Is that the Woodland Scenics Sicken Tire building? Looks great!


Yes it is! It has been fun to paint so far and easy to assemble. I still have small parts to paint









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## TommyB

I'm confused on what Woodland Scenics means by "Pre Fab". I have only purchased the DPM buildings, thinking that pre fab meant that the building came already built and painted. Obviously I'm wrong about that.


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## Aqualungs

Yea it come in grey plastic, but the walls are together. Was about 15$, not too shabby









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## TommyB

Thanks. I see the difference now. I was confusing "Pre Fab" with "Built & Ready". I didn't realize that they have some products where the basic four walls come as a shell. I like that. Just grab the shell and start painting. I find it tedious putting walls together, trying to be sure to have them square. It also looks like the pre fab buildings might come with more detail pieces as well. I am going to pick up that Sicken Tire for sure. I really like the design. It's not a square box building. I'll go to the Woodland Scenics site to see what other pre fabs they have.


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## Aqualungs

I have the Market on the way. They're pretty affordable too for what you get. I have 1 building coming that I will have to glue the walls. I did order one of those right angle hold sets. 

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## Aqualungs

Aqualungs said:


> I have the Market on the way. They're pretty affordable too for what you get. I have 1 building coming that I will have to glue the walls. I did order one of those right angle hold sets.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


I wish they had more pre fab kits. 

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## TommyB

Aqualungs said:


> I wish they had more pre fab kits.
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> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Yes, I see what you mean, I also wish they had more of the pre fab kits. I do like the ones that they do have. I probably should invest in one of those hold sets, too. Good idea.


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## Aqualungs

I want to try a couple of these design preservation kits. They're pretty affordable. Reviews say some sanding to fit good.









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## TommyB

I have purchased about a half dozen of them. I like them. I've only worked on one of them so far because I did a hard left turn and focused on some industrial buildings and ground scenery. Here's the one I have assembled. Some weathering still is needed.


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## Aqualungs

That looks great! Yea I will have to order those!

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## Aqualungs

Got some goodies yesterday. Couple new buildings, and materials to make some trees. Looking forward to some painting this weekend 









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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Got some goodies yesterday. Couple new buildings, and materials to make some trees. Looking forward to some painting this weekend
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Aqualungs;

That building looks great!  Did you assemble it from a kit, or by it built up? The weathering job is very good. Did you paint & weather the building?
I notice the strong contrast in realistic appearance between the building and the yellow/orange tree & hopper cars. When you have time, you might try weathering the cars, and yes even the tree. Weather a tree? What I suggest you try is to dilute a small amount of flat black craft paint in a plant trigger sprayer with a lot of water. mix and shake it thoroughly, and spray a light coat on one of the cars, and the tree. The point of weathering the tree is to cut down on the overly bright glow from the fall foliage. Fall leaves are bright, but not that bright. The same technique can be used on Unitrack, to help the ballast detail stand out. 
Try a small amount of this kind of weathering. If you don't like the results, just wash them off with water from the faucet.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

Hey TF! Thanks yea the building is a prefab Woodlands kit. The main building is one piece and the addition snaps on, but I did paint it. I used to love to paint, and the nostalgia is relaxing and fulfilling. This prefab kit has alot of little pieces. I also received the Market prefab kit, and a Walthers kit to get my feet wet with wall gluing.
I was actually going to ask about weathering the unitrack and other fun stuff. Very cool technique, I will try it. 
I plan on taking the mountains in in certain spots to allow room for a couple buildings to sit. Going to hollow out the mountains to cut down on weight, and more mountain material! Then glue them together add some grass, dirt, foliage and pine trees. Then I can get my bearings on the layout and what buildings I want where. 
Which brings me to my last question. After you put the trees together with the hobby Tac, do you spray the scenic cement on them to keep the shape?

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## Aqualungs

I take it Hob e tac isn't the best glue for this after reading up a bit. Is Aleene's clear tacky a better alternative?

I haven't sprayed them yet with scenic cement, but I'm guessing 2 light coats is better than one saturated coat. I read some trees dropping clumps but guessing they soaked them..
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## vette-kid

Looking forward to seeing your progress this weekend. Looking good so far!

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## Aqualungs

vette-kid said:


> Looking forward to seeing your progress this weekend. Looking good so far!
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> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Thanks! So far no issue coating them with scenic cement. Guessing the key is a couple light coats, so it can hold properly without being weighted down. Also my camera is brightening up the foliage a bit. It is a little duller especially after the glue sprayed on it.









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## Aqualungs

Ordered a thing of Aleene's from Amazon. Gets here Sunday. I'll try my next trees with that. So far the others are holding up fine after 2 light sprays


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Hey TF! Thanks yea the building is a prefab Woodlands kit. The main building is one piece and the addition snaps on, but I did paint it. I used to love to paint, and the nostalgia is relaxing and fulfilling. This prefab kit has alot of little pieces. I also received the Market prefab kit, and a Walthers kit to get my feet wet with wall gluing.
> I was actually going to ask about weathering the unitrack and other fun stuff. Very cool technique, I will try it.
> I plan on taking the mountains in in certain spots to allow room for a couple buildings to sit. Going to hollow out the mountains to cut down on weight, and more mountain material! Then glue them together add some grass, dirt, foliage and pine trees. Then I can get my bearings on the layout and what buildings I want where.
> Which brings me to my last question. After you put the trees together with the hobby Tac, do you spray the scenic cement on them to keep the shape?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

I don't think you will save any appreciable amount of weight by hollowing out what appears to be a foam mountain. Foam is so light that I don't think what you remove would even weigh one pound. What I do recommend for your mountains is to take a surefoam rasp (see photo 1) to the sharp edges, and round everything off quite a bit. (see photos 2 & 3 )

I can't answer your question about "Hobby Tac" and "Scenic cement" because I don't use either product. I'm guessing they may be part of Woodland Scenics business plan of robbing the consumer blind.

For deciduous trees (like your yellow one) I use twigs with diluted white glue on the branches and cheap white polyfiber stretched very thin between branches. After the glue dries, I spray the whole tree a brown, black, or gray color. Then I spray Aquanet cheap hairspray onto the tree as an adhesive. The last step is to sprinkle on the ground foam, or "sander dust" "leaves. (see file, "Model Railroading on a Budget")

My pine trees (see last three photos) are made from cheap artist's-type plastic handle paintbrushes and 3M Scotchbrite scouring pads. (see file "Paintbrush Pine Trees.") I use superglue to attach the Scotchbrite "foliage" to the paintbrush "trunks."

regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

Your trees look great. Bingo on Woodland scenics. I bought the armitures and the fall foliage and Conifer foliage. At least it wasn't as pricey on MB Klein. I will diy my glue and spray "cement" is used up. 
What are you using for the ground cover dirt, grass, weeds, etc.
Very nice work TF and more rewarding when all the bits are self made. Love it!

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Your trees look great. Bingo on Woodland scenics. I bought the armitures and the fall foliage and Conifer foliage. At least it wasn't as pricey on MB Klein. I will diy my glue and spray "cement" is used up.
> What are you using for the ground cover dirt, grass, weeds, etc.
> Very nice work TF and more rewarding when all the bits are self made. Love it!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


 My ground cover scenery starts with a coat of "baby poop brown" acrylic house paint that I bought cheap from the unwanted color pile at Home Depot. My "gosh that looks realistic" dirt is (drum roll) ........dirt. Yup, the real stuff ground, and sifted very fine, The "grass" is commercial ground foam. The weeds near the river below are cut bits of hemp rope glued down in tufts. The ground cover "Duff" simulated pine needles & bits of bark and pinecones is dyed sawdust. The "logs" under the trees are twigs. The pine trees shown at the end of my file "paintbrush pine trees are early attempts and will be used as background trees. The better looking ones in the photos have more of a see through look which is the most important element in making model trees look like the real thing. the best instruction anyone can get on how to build realistic looking scenery, is to take a walk outside. The real world is right there to be seen and copied. Then its a matter of using your imagination to figure out some materials to duplicate things on a small scale. 

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

When riding passenger or when I'm watching nature shows I am constantly looking at terrain and textures. I figured the dirt was dirt, but the othetlr components, very helpful.


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## Aqualungs

Hey guys its been a while! Been doing alot of outdoor stuff. And getting burnt out here and there lol.
Haven't worked much on the railroad, but I had $50 off coupon and Yardmaster status gives me free shipping. Look what finally came in! At 129$ I had to! Right now I have 2 cars in the box, because my passing side isnt long enough, which means come closer to fall/winter Ineed to build an extension lol!! Iboxed up the Operation north Pole car, and come Xmas time the FP40 si still DC, we will have that going around my Star Wars Tree lol!
Hope you all are well!



















































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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Hey guys its been a while! Been doing alot of outdoor stuff. And getting burnt out here and there lol.
> Haven't worked much on the railroad, but I had $50 off coupon and Yardmaster status gives me free shipping. Look what finally came in! At 129$ I had to! Right now I have 2 cars in the box, because my passing side isnt long enough, which means come closer to fall/winter Ineed to build an extension lol!! Iboxed up the Operation north Pole car, and come Xmas time the FP40 si still DC, we will have that going around my Star Wars Tree lol!
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Aqualungs;

It looks a little better each time you post. Nice work  
After you get your passing siding extended, you might start on some scenery. I don't understand the crown shaped green foam pieces. Are they going to be shaped further to form a mountain?

Keep Having Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
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> After you get your passing siding extended, you might start on some scenery. I don't understand the crown shaped green foam pieces. Are they going to be shaped further to form a mountain?
> 
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> Traction Fan


Yea they are still unfinished. Need shaping and additions to add variation. I get this great satisfaction each layer that is added. I plan to paint in cobblestone roads and walkways too. They yard word and gardening having been taking up a bit of time. It was fun to add a passenger set and think about expansion!

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## Aqualungs

Finally wrapped up most of the outdoor crap. Took some time this weekend, but not nearly as much time as I would have liked. I put a base coat on the mountains and will be able to do fine details over winter. Tomorrow I'm going to primer all my building kits, so I will have something to do over winter. 
I have some Micro Trains Rolling stock on the way also. I needed some boxcars, a mail car, and wine tankers to give my business district some life
















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## Aqualungs

New Micro Train cars arrived today. The detail are awesome and they coupled fine with my F7's kato couplers. The mail car also matches the Bluetooth Bonnet nicely! These cars will deliver to the market district. I will eventually put metal wheels on for the weight, but they roll nice! 







































































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## Aqualungs

On the background I did some paint priming on my building kits, and mass parts that I wanted all 1 color. I have the Yard office and Red Wing Milling company buildings to glue together. 
Pictured is Hotel Windzofschidt, named after the crazy winds we've been having. Bet they're sleeping good with those trains rolling past. This is a town of train lovers... so..
I have a right turnout on the way so I can expand my yard a little to house a few passenger cars. 






































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## Aqualungs

This will be my next purchase when it comes back in stock. Gotta love review points covered to coupons. 

Yellow bonnet wheels and freight cars cleaned and back on the track. I ended up soldering jumper wires to the decoder and copper sstraps. Also the motor contacts on the F7. It kept losing contact. Was fun and super easy and it's running like a champ.


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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> New Micro Train cars arrived today. The detail are awesome and they coupled fine with my F7's kato couplers. The mail car also matches the Bluetooth Bonnet nicely! These cars will deliver to the market district. I will eventually put metal wheels on for the weight, but they roll nice!
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Aqualungs;

Those Micro-Trains original equipment plastic wheels are excellent as is. Micro-Trains does now sell metal replacement wheelsets (with plastic axles) to fit their trucks.
Other manufacturers, including Intermountain, and Fox Valley Models, also sell metal wheels (on metal axles) some of which are designed to fit Micro-Trains trucks. Be careful when choosing metal aftermarket wheelsets. The axle length is a bit longer, or shorter, to fit various brands of truck frames. You want a set that is designated as compatible with Micro-Trains trucks. However the difference in axle lengths is only a few thousandths of an inch, so often a bit of GENTLE bending of the truck frames will make things fit.
In any case, adding metal wheels, while a good idea, won't add very much weight to a car. They do have the great advantage though of adding their small bit of weight where it does the most good, at the bottom of the car.

Something to consider when using Micro-Trains couplers (excellent choice!) is whether or not you will use magnetic uncoupling. The M-T magnetic system lets you uncouple at one location, like a yard entrance, and then push the car, still uncoupled, onto one of the yard tracks. The other common uncoupling system uses a tiny stick to uncouple cars by hand, anywhere on the layout. 

To facilitate their magnetic uncoupling system, Micro-Trains uses only non-magnetic weights inside their cars. Most other brands use steel weights, which of course are magnetic. These can be a problem near magnetic uncoupling ramps, since the cars may roll toward the magnet just when you don't want them to, while offsetting of the coupler knuckles in preparation for pushing the car onto a siding. I use brass, or lead, to weight my cars, since both are non-magnetic. I like to add the weight as low down on the car as possible, like filling the center sill. This helps lower the car's center of gravity, which helps it to stay on the track. 
Micro-Trains cars are great, but tend to be light. This is especially true of hopper cars, tank cars, and flat cars, which have hardly any place to conceal extra weight. I have been able to fit moldable lead, or Lo-Temp bismuth, under such cars. (see phots 1 & 2)
I have even resorted to scratch-building some flat cars from brass, with scribed wood decks.

One more thing. The "trip pins" or "air hoses" on knuckle couplers can cause snagging and derailments if set too low, and won't magnetically uncouple if set too high. If you're certain that you'll never want to use magnetic uncoupling, only the stick method, then you can cut off the portion of the "air hose" that hangs down below the coupler, and not worry about the height adjustment. On the other hand, if you think you might like to use magnetic uncoupling, now, or later, then you need to set the trip pins at the right height. Micro-Trains sells a combination gauge for checking the track gauge, coupler height, and trip pin height. Their gauge has a coupler attached to one end and you set yours to match it by eyeball, bearing in mind that couplers droop. The trip pins can be adjusted with a small pair of needle-nosed pliers. I made a more accurate coupler height gauge by cutting two notches in an NMRA track gauge. One for the coupler knuckle and one for the trip pins. (see photos 3,4, & 5)

Enjoy your beautiful new cars;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

Thanks TF! I will probably roll with the current wheel sets for now.. no pun intended. When I feel like I want some extra work maybe I'll do it. I am uncertain on the magnetic trip pins and will leave them for now. I have the kato magnetic track pieces and seem hit or miss like you said prob some of my Kato cars are out of spec. The Microtrain cars are all I'm spec and work good with it. 

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## Aqualungs

Finished the Yard Office. Just have to do a few touch ups. I ruined the eave supports taking them off the tree. I am going to fabricate new ones with wire.

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## 498cm3

Aqualungs said:


> This will be my next purchase when it comes back in stock. Gotta love review points covered to coupons.
> 
> Yellow bonnet wheels and freight cars cleaned and back on the track. I ended up soldering jumper wires to the decoder and copper sstraps. Also the motor contacts on the F7. It kept losing contact. Was fun and super easy and it's running like a champ.


Aqualungs is that switcher DCC? 

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## Aqualungs

498cm3 said:


> Aqualungs is that switcher DCC?
> 
> Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk


DCC with Loksound. 

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## Aqualungs

Expanded my yard with another turnout. Now I don't have to park 2 passenger trains and block the middle track. I have room for 1 more turnout.. and more cars lol. that will happen soon
















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## Mr_honk_honk

clovissangrail01 said:


> Nice pictures. Here's mine. I put two of those sets together and added some additional Kato hoppers --
> 
> Be careful about buying rolling stock on eBay. Your equipment is all Kato, and Kato couplers don't want to work with anything but other Kato couplers. You'll have to do some coupler conversions if you don't get Kato rolling stock. (I have a string of of nice boxcars sitting in their boxes because I learned this the hard way.)
> 
> View attachment 553279


what my Atlas gp30 Rio grade works fine with my f7a yellowbonnet.


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## Aqualungs

Decided I don't really need a swticher for now, but would rather use F units.. because there are a few I still want/need. I'm from Buffalo so I had to have this Lackawanna unit lol. Also had a 10% off coupon! I'm hoping to get the B&O F3 units also. These will sit on my factory and marketplace spurs and will pick up their loads from the yard, when the Santa Fe Consist brings in freight from out of state. I plan on putting Loksound in the Bluebonnet or buying a Loksound B unit and run an ABA consist. I will probably just buy the B unit. 50$ gets me another loco and saves me from a chip install lol









BLI 3788 EMD F3 A/B Set, DLW 805A/805B, Maroon/Gray/Yellow Scheme, A-unit Paragon3 Sound/DC/DCC, Unpowered B, N


New Page 1 EMDs F3s began showing up on the rails just as World War II was ending. As the wartime restrictions were being lifted, a tremendous burden was placed on the railroads as economic prosperity began to take off across the U.S. The days of the glorious steamers were numbered as many...




factorydirecthobbies.com





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## Aqualungs

Mr_honk_honk said:


> what my Atlas gp30 Rio grade works fine with my f7a yellowbonnet.


So far my Micro trains couplers are playing nice with my Kato F units 

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## traction fan

Aqualungs said:


> Decided I don't really need a swticher for now, but would rather use F units.. because there are a few I still want/need. I'm from Buffalo so I had to have this Lackawanna unit lol. Also had a 10% off coupon! I'm hoping to get the B&O F3 units also. These will sit on my factory and marketplace spurs and will pick up their loads from the yard, when the Santa Fe Consist brings in freight from out of state. I plan on putting Loksound in the Bluebonnet or buying a Loksound B unit and run an ABA consist. I will probably just buy the B unit. 50$ gets me another loco and saves me from a chip install lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BLI 3788 EMD F3 A/B Set, DLW 805A/805B, Maroon/Gray/Yellow Scheme, A-unit Paragon3 Sound/DC/DCC, Unpowered B, N
> 
> 
> New Page 1 EMDs F3s began showing up on the rails just as World War II was ending. As the wartime restrictions were being lifted, a tremendous burden was placed on the railroads as economic prosperity began to take off across the U.S. The days of the glorious steamers were numbered as many...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> factorydirecthobbies.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Aqualungs;

Late in their careers, some F-units actually were used as switchers, and as helpers. The Santa Fe even re-built some F-units with road switcher style bodies and used them as both switchers, and short haul road power for many years. I don't remember what the re-builts were designated. (CF-7s?) Maybe you, or some Santa Fe fan, can tell me.
The Milwaukee Road had a consist made up of nine F-units assigned to tide flats yard in Tacoma, Washington. The entire group of nine was used as helpers, and called "the hill power." Tide flats yard had a steep grade (3.5%) on a sharp curve, at the exit from the yard. Even with two, or three, more modern diesels on the head end, and 9 F-units pushing, they often had to break the outgoing trains into segments, and reassemble them after getting up the hill. So your use of F-units as switchers isn't unique to your railroad. The big guys have done it too.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Aqualungs

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> Late in their careers, some F-units actually were used as switchers, and as helpers. The Santa Fe even re-built some F-units with road switcher style bodies and used them as both switchers, and short haul road power for many years. I don't remember what the re-builts were designated. (CF-7s?) Maybe you, or some Santa Fe fan, can tell me. The Milwaukee Road had a consist made up of nine F-units assigned to tide flats yard in Tacoma, Washington. The entire group of nine was used as helpers, and called "the hill power." Tide flats yard had a steep grade (3,51%) on a sharp curve, at the exit from the yard. Even with two, or three, diesels on the head end, and 9 F-units pushing, they often had to break the outgoing trains into segments, and reassemble them after getting up the hill. So your use of F-units as switchers isn't unique to your railroad. The big guys have done it too.
> 
> Traction Fan


Very cool, that's right I just watched a documentary on F3s and F7s they did mention using them as switchers and helpers. Had I known more about railroads like B&O, Lackawanna, and Cuyahoga, I would probably not have Santa Fe units lol. But hindsight is always 20/20 and nothing wrong with a little collection  I plan to watch some youtube videos on more history on these railroads. But will probably base my future collection on the local railroads ro where I've lived.

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## GNfan

traction fan said:


> I don't remember what the re-builts were designated. (CF-7s?) Maybe you, or some Santa Fe fan, can tell me.


Yes, they were called CF7, and generally considered "ugly ducklings".

Santa Fe CF7 - Wikipedia


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## vette-kid

So why bother to rebody them?

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## Aqualungs

vette-kid said:


> So why bother to rebody them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


I think it was because they couldn't see good around the F7 body's. Mainly when reversing they'd use CB radio to communicate with someone. So I'm guessing that's why.

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## vette-kid

Aqualungs said:


> I think it was because they couldn't see good around the F7 body's. Mainly when reversing they'd use CB radio to communicate with someone. So I'm guessing that's why.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Makes sense, thanks

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## traction fan

vette-kid said:


> So why bother to rebody them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Probably to give the crews better visibility of the area they were switching. An F-unit has its windshield mounted quite high from the track. There is a large hood directly in front of that windshield too. As Aqualungs points out, the view behind an F-unit was even worse. An F-unit's body is full width. Unlike a hood unit with most of it's body much narrower than the cab. The engineer would only have his rear view mirrors to see behind the locomotive, and even the mirrors could not show him what, or who, was in a considerable blind spot 10-20 feet directly behind the F-unit. Since the Santa Fe were going to rebuild the entire locomotive (which was a lot cheaper than buying a new one) they figured they would build a new body that gave the crew a better view for safety. Also, the original F-unit bodies may not have been in very good shape after decades of service.

Traction Fan


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## Mr_honk_honk

vette-kid said:


> So why bother to rebody them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


because look at this wonderful body


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## vette-kid

Mr_honk_honk said:


> because look at this wonderful body
> View attachment 571332


Yeah, I'll take the F unit in the looks department any day. 

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## Aqualungs

vette-kid said:


> Yeah, I'll take the F unit in the looks department any day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


I think I'm mostly in this hobby because of F and E units. The only ones so far I like to collect and the reason why my Railroad is stuck in 60s and older locos 

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## vette-kid

Agree, I love the look of the F abs especially the E units. Although my n scale is a fictional modern jurassic park, for which I have found a soft spot for the dash 9s. But I do plan to do up an E as a excursion train for it

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## Aqualungs

Did a nice speed match on my F7s and setup a consist. Must say these two pull pretty well up the Viaduct. Not sure they could do another few cars or not. I've pretty much decided to get either the B unit or another yellow bonnet in Loksound. Something about the diesel startups and throttling.. anyhoo.. Inthink I prefer the aba look, but paying only 5$ less for a B unit.. makes me want to get another A unit lol. But rhe B unit is so cool..
Also Kato grain cars played much nicer with Micro Trains after I nipped off the small nub on the last car's Kato coupler. As you can see, no issues!






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## vette-kid

I don't recall, what brand are your F units? For what is worth, my consist of 2 kato dash 9s maxed out around 25 cars on the viaduct. 12 were autoracks, so I suppose that counts for something. This looks like it pulls no problem, I bet you could get a few more out of it. The real test is trying to go up the grade at slower speeds. 

Have you figured the actual grade of your incline?

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## Aqualungs

vette-kid said:


> I don't recall, what brand are your F units? For what is worth, my consist of 2 kato dash 9s maxed out around 25 cars on the viaduct. 12 were autoracks, so I suppose that counts for something. This looks like it pulls no problem, I bet you could get a few more out of it. The real test is trying to go up the grade at slower speeds.
> 
> Have you figured the actual grade of your incline?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


They are Kato F7s, that I put Digitrax decoders in. They did go up at medium speed, I'll try slow . I want to say the viaduct kit had a 4% grade?

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## vette-kid

Hmm, seems steep? I think I measured mine at just over 2% maybe it's the angle of our cameras, but mine looks steeper than yours (Although we both used the same kit so one would assume they are the same?) Actually I might have doubled up on the piers so maybe 4% and 2% did make sense. 








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## Aqualungs

vette-kid said:


> Hmm, seems steep? I think I measured mine at just over 2% maybe it's the angle of our cameras, but mine looks steeper than yours (Although we both used the same kit so one would assume they are the same?) Actually I might have doubled up on the piers so maybe 4% and 2% did make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


It could be the same as yours.. not sure why 4% is sticking in my head lol. I wonder if the instructions advise on the percentage 

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## Mr_honk_honk

vette-kid said:


> Hmm, seems steep? I think I measured mine at just over 2% maybe it's the angle of our cameras, but mine looks steeper than yours (Although we both used the same kit so one would assume they are the same?) Actually I might have doubled up on the piers so maybe 4% and 2% did make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


How is the unit going by the way?


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## vette-kid

Mr_honk_honk said:


> How is the unit going by the way?
> View attachment 571404


Slow! I hadn't had a lot of time to play with it really. I did play around with my paint colors trying to get a match (close enough anyway). But I'm new there, so...ya. I might just be better buying a darker green... the only one I have is transparent. 

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## Aqualungs

Finished the mill today. Have some touch ups to do. But for now, time to start filling grain orders.






























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## Aqualungs

Received the DL&W Locomotive this past week. Sound is not as good as Loksound, and power is not as good as Kato, but is a cool Loco nonetheless. I like the amount of sound bytes and the details. Mars light is cool too. It will just be running freight cars from the yard to the spurs and vice versa. I did try to run the same amount of cars up the Viaduct as a Kato F7, but no dice, it only made it up half the way the F7 did. Makes sense in a real world simulation..lol. 
I decided I would work on my video skills and bust out my mirrorless camera and tripod. Enjoy!







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## jimmybarton

traction fan said:


> Aqualungs;
> 
> As a long time N-scaler, I would suggest Model Railroader Magazine rather than N-scale Magazine. The latter is all N-scale of course, but I've subscribed to both, and found a lot more content I actually used in Model Railroader than in N-scale Magazine.
> Also MR comes every month and N-scale is bi-monthly.
> A good first book on trains is "Getting Started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It covers a wide variety of model railroad subjects in simple text and many photos. You can order it from www.amazon.com
> 
> After many years of model railroading I now no longer subscribe to any magazines.
> I found that they tended to rerun the same topics and I had learned enough from the magazines, my club, and my own decades of experience, that for me, it was no longer worth the cost.
> 
> Your layout looks like you're off to a decent start. You might look into a sheet of 1"-2" thick extruded foam insulation board for a layout base. It will give you a continuous flat surface for your track. The separate planks you're using now will have built-in bumps between boards, and will warp eventually. The foam is very strong, very lightweight and can be carved or stacked to form scenery.
> 
> However, for a new person, Model Railroader Magazine is a great resource, and I did learn a great deal from Model Railroader in my earlier days.
> Many public Libraries subscribe to Model Railroader, (in the children's section ) so you might check it out there.
> 
> Just curious. Were the PDFs on building a first layout you saw the ones I wrote, like this one?
> 
> Traction Fan 🙂


I agree with Traction Fan. Using insulation foam 1" and 2" is a very good way to build up the layout. Especially for hiding the wiring to the track, buildings and any lighting you might want to get out of the way. Also as time goes by you might want to dig in some tunnels or lakes or streams with landscaping to add that touch of realism. Any layout worth creating is worth building bigger and better. It a great hobby especially for those retired or home bound with time to use. Praise the Lord.


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## jimmybarton

Hey, you've come along way since the plywood track layout. I didn't notice the date on your earlier post. The mill model is great and your layout is coming along great too. Keep it up


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## Aqualungs

jimmybarton said:


> Hey, you've come along way since the plywood track layout. I didn't notice the date on your earlier post. The mill model is great and your layout is coming along great too. Keep it up


Thank you! Yea I would like to dig out a small lake/stream. And disrupt and vary some of the flat areas. Definitely have my work cut out for me. Looking forward to more progress over winter!

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## Aqualungs

Recieved my F7B unit with Loksound. Was having issues for last 2 days trying to speedmatch 3 F7s on the Zephyr Express. Would get close but started over at least 4-5 times.
YouTube brought me to JMRI and after a few videos I had Decoder Pro up on my laptop and had all 3 matched in about an hour. Wow.. video coming soon. I'm in love with JMRI Decoder Pro. Being able to change CVs real-time on the layout to speed match or change things.. priceless.









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## Aqualungs

Did a short video of my 400 C&NW train. I'll do a video soon of my F7 Santa Fe Consist. I just want to adjust cv3 amd cv4 for a little more realism.






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## MichaelE

You can make CV adjustments on the fly with almost any DCC system. I've done it quite often in the past and still sometimes change global volume settings during a session.


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## Aqualungs

MichaelE said:


> You can make CV adjustments on the fly with almost any DCC system. I've done it quite often in the past and still sometimes change global volume settings during a session.


Right! I just started using JMRI and I will be able to do all 3 on the layout. What a time and frustration saver!
So much to learn!
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## Aqualungs

Used my points and addition to the Black Friday sale, got this little gem for $3.56 shipped, and it arrived today. Couldn't find a cabin kit I liked, so I grabbed this one. Now I want to do some interior lights lol
















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## Aqualungs

Hope you all had a nice holiday! I expanded my yard a little and bought a few Lackawanna freight cars. Also my brother picked me up a 1998 DC Alco PA1 for Christmas, so I ordered the other from the seller for a matching pair. I picked up a Soundtraxx decoder and Digitrax decoder so I could have sound in both. At the time I did not know it was a 1998 model and no room for a speaker. I sourced it out to Duford Models and it is getting milled and a sugar cube speaker installed. Both locos were super clean except for the Trucks and contacts, so they got a nice detail job. 
I just recieved the digitrax decoder and installed it into #855, and it's a smooth runner. 
I also picked up a GS-4 Daylight in DCC.. had to have it. It also is with Duford Models getting Loksound and 2 sugar cube speakers, as well as a rear light.












































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## Aqualungs

Made a short video xlip of the Alco PA-1. She's a runner!






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## Oomowmow

Aqualungs said:


> Here's some pics
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Very nice


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## Longvallon

Wonderful layout. Maybe it's time for a little update, isn't it ? Thanks.


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## CTValleyRR

CPL57 said:


> Wonderful layout. Maybe it's time for a little update, isn't it ? Thanks.


Maybe, but this member hasn't been on the forum in 3-1/2 months.


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