# Flood Victims ~ Another Junk-Pile 1681 Loco (& Set) for TJ



## tjcruiser

Hi Guys,

Well ... It's official ... I have a problem ... an addiction, really. I've tried to resist, but I can't stop succumbing to the temptations that taunt and haunt me daily. It's not normal, I know. I need to break the vicious cycle. I want to live a life without being compelled to repair these bloody things, but I just can't quit cold turkey. I need help. They say the first step in "getting clean" is admitting to yourself that you have a problem. So, here goes: "I ... have ... a ... problem!" 

My latest vice ... yet ANOTHER Lionel 1681 prewar tinplate loco. This is now my third ... well, two and a half, really. The middle one is a shell, only, with no motor.

This latest one has a motor, is teamed with a tender, a gondola, a tanker, and a caboose ... all the victims of a FLOOD. Really. The ebay seller said they were submerged for quite some time. I bought the lot for $36, which is likely way too much, but that's what addicted people do.

They arrived in the mail today. The bad news: the paint is literally jumping off all over. The slightest touch, and it flakes off. Some rust underneath, but not disasterous. The good news: all of the tinplate metal has held its shape quite well, with very few dents or bends. No broken tabs (from what I've seen), and no missing parts (with the exception of the loco drive rods and front truck).

I have no idea if I'll be able to get the loco motor to work. I'm not sure if the armature and/or field are fried. It needs a full rewire, at least. The gears and armature turn, though, so that's a good sign.

T-Man ... here's a comment/question for you ...

This loco is a 1681 (no E) ... I wasn't sure if it had an e-unit or not, because is DOES have a toggle on top of the loco, just like my 1681E that has an e-unit.

Well, when I opened the loco up, I "discovered" my very first viewing of *Lionel manual switch* (installed originally in lieu of a e-unit). See the first photo, below. Have you guys seen these before? It's essentially a disc that can rotate about 1/4 turn (via the manual toggle). When it does, it pivots a pair of contact plates that flip-flop the circuitry of current direction going to the armature (or field ... I'm not sure which yet). Pretty simple technology, but nice. Give the user the option to toggle forward or reverse.

All of the cars had lithographed original paint, each with simulated (litho) details like rivets, windows, doors, etc. Everything's gotta be stripped to bare metal and then repainted (with the exception of the tanker top, I think). *I have no idea how I can attempt to reproduce even some of the litho detail? Does anyone know if somebody makes decals for old stuff like this?* My other (crude) option is to try to pen in the line details with a fine-point Sharpie pen (after base color repaint). Other ideas from anyone???

Anyway ... I don't think much of this will materialize anytime too soon. I've still got to finish my 259E loco, and (hopefully) shake my demons for at least a little while.

TJ


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## T-Man

Times change, so a manual or e unit does not surprise me. 

You will have to rewind the coil, Radio Shack has wire. Maybe you can find a better armature, thay are a pain to rewind.

For Litho. Paint in layers with a stencil. Cutting them is slow and tedious. TO start wrap tape on the ouside 360 and spray the inside. Now on the tape you have window locations and a start of a stencil.
Or you paint your own look.

Just my thoughts.


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## imatt88

AWESOME!!!

TJ, Another one saved:thumbsup: In your capable hands, it should turn out to be a winner

Keep us posted


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## tjcruiser

Thanks guys. I may be mulling this project over for a while before delving into it.

Funny thing I noticed on the loco when I got it ... some prior owner had obviously worked on the drive wheels. How do I know? The left/rear drive wheel has its drive crank sticking out, as normal, as shown above. However, on the right side of the loco, the wheels had been flipped-flopped ... the drive rod crank was on the FRONT wheel, and no crank on the rear wheel. Go figure ... I don't have a clue how that could have possibly worked!

Thanks for the comments, guys!

TJ


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## Reckers

Maybe that was why he threw it in the river? *L*


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## tjcruiser

Jim (Stillakid) --

I'm hoping you see this post ... I have a question for you ...

I've begun to disassemble the freight cars shown in the pics above, in prep for a strip / repaint job. I've removed the wheels and the journal boxes, but the trucks themselves (which are tinplate) are rivetted to the car frames. My choices are either to:

A. Leave the trucks attached, and attempt to strip / prime / paint with them still attached to the frame, or ...

B. Drill out the rivets, strip / prime / paint individually, then reassemble with new screws and nuts (instead of rivets).


(A) maintains original rivets, but runs the risk of not fully priming / painting areas of metal where the truck and underside of frame overlap.

(B) primes and paints everything, but destroys the original rivets in the process.

So ...

What would you do, if you were me???

TJ


PS -- Sidenote ...
When I had looked at prior photos of your restoration projects, I assumed (naively) that the journal boxes were newly PAINTED copper or gold color. I am now surprised (and delighted!) to see that the journal boxes are actually made of real copper. I've polished one up with the Dremel, and it looks fabulous. I'm thrilled! Only 23 more to go!


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## Boston&Maine

Hands-down, option B...


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## tjcruiser

B&M,

Thanks!

Jim??? Anyone else???

TJ


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## RichT

tjcruiser said:


> B&M,
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jim??? Anyone else???
> 
> TJ


have you considered option B, but doing a re-rivet... you can probably get everything you need from the local hardware store... You can also try flat head screws with bolts with nylon locking rings... screw heads on the outside... bolts inside


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## Stillakid

TJ, I use brass nuts(2) and screws(6x32, or 8x32)-depending on whether the coupler is attached to the frame(6x32), or the screw(8x32) . I use the 2-nuts as a locking set-up. Rich's idea would also work!

Jim


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## T-Man

I can offer caboose pictures in red or brown, Your choice when you get to it.


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## tjcruiser

Re: Trucks -- Sounds like there's a concensus ... I'll drill out rivets later today, so that I can prime / paint pieces separately. Thanks to all above.

Re: Caboose -- T-Man, I think I'm gonna attempt a full repaint on that one. I'm hoping I can tape off adequately for the cream windows, then add all of the black line and "rivet" details with a Sharpie pen. We'll see.

There's a nice dead-side-on photo of the caboose in Doyle's book, so I think I'll scan that to get an image of the elliptical "Lionel Lines" logo ... I'll make that via my printer and just glue it on.

I disassembled and remove the caboose cupola yesterday ... I have an even HIGHER LEVER of appreciation for your craftsmanship in your recent custom cupola fabrication ... that thing is super tiny, and I'm amazed that you bent, cut, and windowed your piece so nicely. Super!

TJ


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## Stillakid

*What you need, is this.................*

View attachment 3350



It would solve all your problems!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## tjcruiser

Yeah! Either that, or my very own Lithograph printing machine ... whatever it is that they look like!?! I'm still amazed as to the quality of image they printed on "tin" way back 100 years ago. How they achieved that is beyond me...

TJ


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## T-Man

TJ, the roof sections are too small for me. I had to make one, remember, so it is oversized. I would like a raw picture to resize. That would help.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

I just sent new, larger roof-tile images to your Gmail account. See note in the email.

TJ


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## Stillakid

TJ, a brief description of the, "Litho" process!

http://www.toycollector.com/index.p...late-Lithography-How-Its-Done.html&Itemid=896


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## tjcruiser

Jim,

Interesting article ... thanks!

So if I read this correctly, the litho printing process is done BEFORE the resulting FLAT-SHEET-TIN is bent into its intended shape (car, roof, etc.) ??? Fascinating!

TJ


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## Stillakid

TJ, like you, I wonder how people get such fine detail when spraying. I still want a Airbrush system, but the "Boss" wants to go to the beach in August, so no extra $$$, laying around

Check this out and tell me your thoughts;

http://www.preval.com/what-is-preval


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## tjcruiser

Jim,

I wish I could offer some advice / feedback. I'm 100% clueless in this subject, though I'm always impressed with what talented people can do with an airbrush.

That Prevail system above looks neat ... inexpensive, for sure. My guess (???) is that the spray volume (as limited by reservoir and aerosol propellant) is limited to very small jobs.

There are several other mfrs that offer portable (i.e., aerosol propellant driven) airbrushes on the cheap ... here's one ...

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bad/bad250-3.htm

But no verdicts from me ... never tried one ...

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

Some progress on the freight cars for this old pre-war Lionel set. I disassembled, then Easy-Off stripped the tender, gondola, tanker (frame, only), caboose down to raw metal. The paint came off pretty quickly, only to expose spider-web veins of rust here and there. I've spent a bit of time going at 'em with my Dremel and a spinning stainless brush. Pretty good results.

The tender components were bent and distorted pretty badly. I tapped-tapped-tapped with a flatish peen hammer and an anvil (of sorts), and straightened things out reasonably well.

The copper journal boxes polished up beautifully. The wheels and axles were caked in rust, but the Dremel and patience cleaned those up, too.

I was getting frustrated with trying to de-rust the old latch-style couplers. I couldn't reach all of the nooks and crannies with the Dremel brush. Well, frustration took over, and I pulled the container of Muriatic Acid (hydrochloric acid) off of the shell (high up, where the kids can't reach it), diluted it about 50/50 with water in a small glass container, then dropped the couplers in. Stirred for about 2 or 3 minutes, rinsed clean, then repeated one more time. Very nice results ... rust is history ... gone ... outta here. That Muriatic sure works wonders, but it is nasty, dangerous stuff. Use very cautiously!

I went spray-paint shopping over the weekend. I'm having trouble finding a gloss color match for the gondola sides ... sort of a teal green ... might try an auto store next. I'm hoping (but likely won't) stick with Krylon on this project.

Re: the 1681 loco ... haven't really done anything on the shell. However, I did yank the wheels off of the motor and jumped some +/- power leads to the brushes and grounded frame. Good news ... signs of life ... motor spins in both forward and reverse. Coil and armature windings all OK. It'll need a good cleaning and lube, and I'll rewire the manual fwd-reverse switch, but I don't envision any major headaches on giving the motor some new life.

Sorry ... NO PICTURES TODAY ... wife has camera. Will try to snap/post tomorrow.

Cheers,

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Photos, as promised ...

Components all stripped and placed (but not tabbed) together. I'll separate for priming / painting. I found some suitable Krylon colors, so Krylon primer and paint throughout.

TJ


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## T-Man

That is amazing. You will have no problems painting them up.


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## tjcruiser

Update ...

Sprayed car (and transformer station) components with Krylon primer. I really like using coat hanger wire and pink-stuff scrap foam sheets to "float" the pieces while spraying.

We leave on Friday for a week-long family vaca to NH, so project will be on a holding-pattern till my return. Things are humid here in RI, so I'm glad I got the base-coat primer on prior to my trip.

TJ


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> That is amazing. You have no problems painting them up.


I like the way TJ arranges them too, so neat and orderly.


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## imatt88

So far, so good


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## tjcruiser

imatt88 said:


> So far, so good


Yeah ... more or less. Status as of today ...

Caboose shell and cupola are painted red. Gondola shell painted sage. Car frames and trucks partially painted black. Tender inset painted red, and rest black. However ...

I learned yesterday that trying to spray paint (black) in 102-degree heat is not the smartest idea. Or maybe the high humidity. Not sure which, but the surface finish was much harder to control, as compared to spraying in 70-deg temps in low humidity.

Next steps:

Mask off and paint "window frames" on caboose a beige color.

Use black Sharpie to add panel and rivet details, window and door frames to caboose and gonola. (Not sure if this will "pull it off OK", but I'm gonna give it a shot.)

Use gold pen to add rivets to tender.

Reassemble, etc.

Pics and details to folllow ...

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Project update ...

The car components have all now been primed and base-coat painted. As an outset to this project, I wanted to try to tackle reproducing something close to the original lithographed detail on the caboose, gondola, and tender shells. Photos below show beginnings of my attempts to do that. (Parts in photos are loose placed ... not tabbed yet.)

The gondola shell has a sage basecoat paint. I've gone over that in ultra-fine black Sharpie to mark out something close to the "plates and rivets" that were in the original litho car. I'll use photo-paper to print out "wallpaper" add-ons for the elliptical "Lionel Lines" and "1677" logos.

I'll next mask-off the window and door frames on the caboose and spray them in a cream color, then use the ultra-fine Sharpie to add plate and rivet details to the shell. Hopefully ... could turn out to be a mess, but we'll see.

I came up with a new "TJ trick" to draw the lines and straight rows of rivets on the shells. I had earlier (on some scrap test stuff) applied a line of masking tape, and then used the tape edge as a guide to draw straight lines and dots. However, black ink always bled under the tape edge, causing a mess on the paint. Not good. So, I dug around and grabbed an "advertising magnet" off of my fridge ... one of those thin, flexible things with your local pizza-store phone number in big red numbers. The magnet easily sticks to the metal shell (but can be easily be repositioned), and -- importantly -- has a reverse-bevel edge that yields no bleed-through or smudges when drawing the Sharpie black lines. Mostly.

So ... decent progress ... not perfect, but an improvement over the rust-bucket, flaking paint mess that landed in my lap.

Ohh ... I'll need to get some dry-rub, block letters to spell out the "Lionel Lines" in the red field on the tender. I'm hoping that Woodland Scenics has something appropriate, but I haven't looked yet. Any specific leads or tips here?

TJ


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## Big Ed

They look so good I wouldn't want to run them!:thumbsup::laugh:


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## Big Ed

You never commented on this TJ?


A copy and paste,

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Man View Post
That is amazing. You have no problems painting them up.
********************************************
Big Ed,
I like the way TJ arranges them too, so neat and orderly.


**********************************************
__________________
Never Enough Room,Time or Money for all the Trains! 

:thumbsup:
I truly like the neat and orderly way you spread them out.


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed,

Thanks for the thumbs up ... so far. I'm a bit nervous about painting the window frame "trim" on the caboose, and then applying the Sharpie marker lines ... there's no margin for screw-up, and I'd hate to mess up the nice new red paint job. But live and learn, I guess.

As for the neat and orderly parts in the photos ... "guilty as charged"! I tend to like things neat and orderly ... at least until my tornado kids stir things up into unrecognizable piles!

Thanks much,

TJ


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## Reckers

Teej.....has it occurred to you there was a reason those things were thrown in the river?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

That said....BEAUTIFUL WORK!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Stillakid

TJ, "EXCELLENT!"
You're the, "King" of restorations!!


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## T-Man

I like it! Well, actually I am CRAZY about IT! :thumbsup:
The ink work is surprising. Truly inspirational.


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## imatt88

TJ,

Amazing work on the gondola!:thumbsup: It looks factory. 

I'm curious to see how the rest come out


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Ian. Much appreciated.

Slow progress during the busy days of summer, but I did manage to finish the tender today. I'll try to grab a camera (steal it, actually ... from my wife!) and snap/post some pics tomorrow.

TJ


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## servoguy

TJ,
I don't know if you have used a black sharpie yet, but the black will look purple if the light is just right. You might investigate a craft shop like Michaels for something that will give you a true black. 

I use the sharpie to blacken nicks on some of the steam engines that I run. I have a whistle tender with 6 wheel trucks that is pink plastic painted black, and it is rather beat up. I blackened the nicks with a sharpie, and it looks a lot better. At least it doesn't have the measles any more. 

Your work looks great. The gondola is really a good piece of work.

Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser

Bruce,

Good thinking on the caution of Sharpie-black in certain lights. I've noticed the same thing, especially when using the Sharpie to touch up nicks in prior black paint. Michael's is a good idea for an alternative.

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Project update ...

Here's the tender, now completed. Full job of strip, undent, prime, paint. Unlike my first (other thread) 1681 tender, here I opted to strip the inset red field, too. Which meant that I needed to re-letter. I've used Woodland Scenic yellow Roman dry-rub decals. They look nice, I think. I used parallel rows of low-stick tape to create a "field" to position and align the decal paper such that each letter (rubbed individually) lined up with the next.

The trickiest part was applying the "rivets" with a gold Pilot pen. On test material, I positioned the pen with along a straight edge. But too often, the gold paint would bleed underneath the straight edge, causing a smudgy mess. So, if I didn't use a straight edge, how would I position the pen to yield a reasonably straight row of rivets?

Here's what I did ...

In AutoCAD, I made a paper template (to proper scale) of my intended rivet pattern. I then cut out the template and taped it (aligned properly) to the side of the tender. Next, I used a small sharp needle to poke through the paper at each rivet center, causing a tiny, tiny divot in the underlying paint at each rivet location. Next, removed the paper template to reveal the rows of straight, evenly spaced divots. Then, with a steady hand (and good light), used the pen to put a dab of gold paint at each divot / rivet location. Decent results, I think ... not 100% perfectly straight, but not too bad. No gold paint smudges, so I'm happy with that.

The black "rivets" in the red field are via black Sharpie pen.

Krylon primer / paint throughout.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Reckers

Verrrry nice job!!!! I'm impressed!


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## imatt88

WOW

Great work:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

*The Incredible Dunkin Donuts Straw ...*

Progress on my prewar freight set is crawling along slowly with the busy days of summer, but ...

I've "discovered" the most amazing modeling tip that I just had to pass along to everyone. Well, admitedly, it's ridiculously simple and likely obvious ... but when I "discovered" it, a huge smile spread across my face, and I've been bouncing around like a kid on Christmas morning ever since. So ...

I have 24 little Lionel copper journal boxes from the freight car trucks that I've removed and polished up. All nice and shiny. But I wanted to brush on a layer of airplane dope to prevent future tarnish. The journal boxes are tiny, though, and difficult to hold. They're cupped shaped, with a hollow back.

I scratch my head for a while ... Hold them with tweezers? Tape them to something? Hmmm ... what to do? I was thinking away (with smoke coming out of my ears, I think), as I sipped away on a cup of Dunkin Donuts iced coffee. And there, staring me in the face, was the most brilliant (and obvious) solution anybody could ever invent ... the amazing, stupendous, multi-talented, multi-purposed Dunkin Donut STRAW !!! (Not the small one, mind you, but the larger size that fits the jumbo / bucket iced coffee cups!)

It's flexible enough that you can poke it into the hollow back of a journal box, but exactly the right size so the it grabs and holds the journal box with a decent amount of friction. The perfect tiny hand, so to speak.

So, If you'll indulge me with my Christmas morning giddiness ... I present to you 24 copper journal boxes newly lacquered, and held in place ever so appropriately with 24 short (cut) amazing Dunkin Donut straws ...

TJ


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## servoguy

Way to go, TJ,
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Bruce Baker


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Progress on my prewar freight set is crawling along slowly with the busy days of summer, but ...
> 
> I've "discovered" the most amazing modeling tip that I just had to pass along to everyone. Well, admitedly, it's ridiculously simple and likely obvious ... but when I "discovered" it, a huge smile spread across my face, and I've been bouncing around like a kid on Christmas morning ever since. So ...
> 
> I have 24 little Lionel copper journal boxes from the freight car trucks that I've removed and polished up. All nice and shiny. But I wanted to brush on a layer of airplane dope to prevent future tarnish. The journal boxes are tiny, though, and difficult to hold. They're cupped shaped, with a hollow back.
> 
> I scratch my head for a while ... Hold them with tweezers? Tape them to something? Hmmm ... what to do? I was thinking away (with smoke coming out of my ears, I think), as I sipped away on a cup of Dunkin Donuts iced coffee. And there, staring me in the face, was the most brilliant (and obvious) solution anybody could ever invent ... the amazing, stupendous, multi-talented, multi-purposed Dunkin Donut STRAW !!! (Not the small one, mind you, but the larger size that fits the jumbo / bucket iced coffee cups!)
> 
> It's flexible enough that you can poke it into the hollow back of a journal box, but exactly the right size so the it grabs and holds the journal box with a decent amount of friction. The perfect tiny hand, so to speak.
> 
> So, If you'll indulge me with my Christmas morning giddiness ... I present to you 24 copper journal boxes newly lacquered, and held in place ever so appropriately with 24 short (cut) amazing Dunkin Donut straws ...
> 
> TJ


Ones crooked!:laugh:


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## Reckers

Great idea, TJ! Thanks for sharing it!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Project update ...

I've put the #1680 tanker car back together. Of the full freight set, the tank itself is the one item that I thought could/should be saved as-is with original litho paint. Though aged, the tank isn't too bad. Accordingly, the now-restored car has a repainted frame and trucks; polished and clear-coated journal boxes, wheels, domes, and handrails; and de-rusted couplers (I used a mild hydrochloric acid solution on those). Krylon primer and black paint.

Before and after photos follow.

TJ


*BEFORE*









*AFTER*


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## Reckers

Nice compromise----I like the old Sunoco decals.


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Project update ...
> 
> I've put the #1680 tanker car back together. Of the full freight set, the tank itself is the one item that I thought could/should be saved as-is with original litho paint. Though aged, the tank isn't too bad. Accordingly, the now-restored car has a repainted frame and trucks; polished and clear-coated journal boxes, wheels, domes, and handrails; and de-rusted couplers (I used a mild hydrochloric acid solution on those). Krylon primer and black paint.
> 
> Before and after photos follow.
> 
> TJ
> 
> 
> *BEFORE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *AFTER*


You should have kept the frame weathered looking too.
Though it looks good, it looks odd.
You can get the stickers I have seen them on e bay.

Edit,
I have seen stickers but after looking at yours again I don't think I saw any of those.
I will keep my eye open if you want. Most of the ones I see are buy it now's.


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

The stickers (or decals) I would love to find are the elliptical black-and-beige "Lionel Lines RR" ones that match the caboose and gondola car, as shown in the second pic on Post #1 of this thread.

Any leads there?

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> The stickers (or decals) I would love to find are the elliptical black-and-beige "Lionel Lines RR" ones that match the caboose and gondola car, as shown in the second pic on Post #1 of this thread.
> 
> Any leads there?
> 
> TJ


Stickers decals same thing.:laugh:
I though you said stickers that's why I said that.

I will keep my eye open for you as I search decals once a week.
For O gauge. (mainly CNJ):thumbsup:
I don't think I ever so those.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Ed!


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## tjcruiser

Project update ...

I've now put the 1677 gondola back together. Full strip, prime, repaint with Krylon. You saw earlier how I tried to use a fine-point black Sharpie pen to simulate the original lithographed "rivets and panels". I've since made elliptical "Lionel Lines" and "1677" emblems using AutoCAD and Paint, printed them out on matte photo paper, and then cut and glued them on to the side of the cab. Not too bad, when compared to the original. Copper journal boxes are polished and dope clear coated, as above. I've been using stainless steel round-allen-head screws and locknuts to reattach the trucks (originally rivetted) to the frame.

Cheers,

TJ

*BEFORE*









*AFTER*


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## Boston&Maine

TJ, you should consider doing this as a little side business on eBay


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## servoguy

TJ,
I have a box of junk. Could I send it to you for restoration? (smile) Your work looks extremely good. Keep on truckin'


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## Reckers

Man, that is one beautiful job, TJ!


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, guys ... I really appreciate the nice comments! 

Detail work on the caboose is next. I'm a little nervous ... the cab is painted red with a really crisp finish. But now, I have to mask off in way of the windows and doors, and paint those a cream color, then go to it with the fine-point black Sharpie again. In theory, all doable ... in practice, I'm beginning to have visions of ruining that nice red paint job.

Oh well ... nothing ventured, nothing gained ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man

Beeautiful! :thumbsup:

That's a lot of work.


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## Big Ed

I see one rivet you messed up on.

How the heck do you keep your hand still when your poka dotting them?
I was thinking that if you could make a small template somehow, with just a small hole for the tip of the sharpie it would make the job of putting the rivets on a lot easier for you.

I think the name looks better then a new one.:thumbsup:

What are you planning on doing with all when your done?
Let the kids run them?


How about a picture on the whole train together? With the ones that are complete?


I forgot to add, that they look just.....GREAT!:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

big ed said:


> How the heck do you keep your hand still when your poka dotting them?


Good question! I've tried a few different ways, mostly involving using tape or a straight edge to act as a guide for each row of dots. My big problem has been "bleed through", where the ink seeps under the straight edge (or tape) causing a smudgy mess on the nearby paint.

What I found worked pretty well for this gondola was to use a refridgerator magnet as a straight edge (the thin/flat kind with pizza store advertising on it). I used a razor to put a reverse-bevel along one edge, so that the side touching the metal car was not directly butting up against the Sharpie pen. Seemed to work OK, though if you look close, you can see some smudging along my bottom row of rivets. The nice thing about the fridge magnet is that it sticks to the metal car with a firm grip, but can be moved easily when getting ready to align it up for another row of Sharpie rivets or lines.

As a side note, the magnet did NOT work well enough for the gold pen that I used to put rivet dots on the tender. Bleed through was too much of a problem. Instead, if you're curious, read my Tender post up above ... I poked small pinhole rivet locations with a template and a needle, then applied the gold freehand. Worked OK, but I'm guessing somebody out there must know of an easier / better way.

I think this freight set is gonna be a show piece. Not that it's museum quality or anything like that, but I'd like to keep it in decent shape for some future generation / future grandkids (???). I'm letting my kids run with my not-too-fancy postwar stuff.

For sure, I'll take some pics of the whole set when I get the caboose and the 1681 loco all finished ... whenever that might be.

Thanks, again, for the nice compliments ... much appreciated !!! It means a lot to me to have you experience train guys offer me an "atta boy" on this project!

Cheers,

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Quick project update before the weekend sets in ...

I started the process of detailing the caboose shell. I'm trying (???) to end up with something close to the original litho graphics. So ...

Base red paint. Then, tape off carefully (!!!) in way of windows and door trim. Sprayed those with a cream color paint. Next, just started to begin adding edge lines with a fine-point black Sharpie.

More to come, but here's where things are now. (Sorry for the fuzzy pics ... cell phone camera.)

Cheers,

TJ

Used lots of cut pieces of blue tape to mask off the windows, prior to spraying in cream color. Wrapped everything else in a pastic bag to prevent overspray.









End panel ... I'm cheating here ... Orig door and windows had an arched top ... I've gone straight, for simplicy. Don't tell anyone!









With paint dry, started to ink in door and window frame edges to see how it looks ...


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## tjcruiser

Project Update -- CABOOSE COMPLETED!

Well, I managed to overcome my newbie nerves and shaky hand, and finished off the restoration of my Lionel 1682 caboose (circa 1933-34). If you've been following this thread, you know that this caboose (and the whole set) had been in a flood somewhere ... the paint was flaking off on everything pretty badly. So ... full strip, de-rust, prime, paint, detail job on my end. The trickiest part on this car was painting the cream-colored trim around the windows and doors (Krylon spray, taped off), then edging the trim and adding "rivet and plate" details with a fine-point Sharpie. I went slowly, and used a back-beveled straight edge to avoid bleed-through. I printed up on photo paper appropriately-sized "Lionel Lines" and "1682" graphics, then cut and glued those on. Wheels and journal boxes were all buffed, shined, and clear-coated per prior project details, above.

I'm pretty pleased with the results ... rather close to the lithographed original, I think.

Cheers,

TJ

*BEFORE*

























*AFTER*


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## Big Ed

You the man!:thumbsup:

Superb work TJ!:thumbsup: I think you been pulling our legs and have been doing that for 25 years now.:thumbsup: You would really be dangerous with an air brush once you got used to it!:thumbsup:

Do you have enough done yet to take a picture of all of them sitting on the track?:thumbsup:

(make sure the picture is clear and there is no date stamp in it. Anton still won't tell me how he gets all that info from the date stamp or whatever you call it.:laugh

Do you keep track of your time and money when you redo these?


Edit.......:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## servoguy

Great job, CJ. Absolutely beautiful.
Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser

Ed, Bruce,

Thanks for the nice comments ... much appreciated.

Ed, I'll take some pics of the now-completed cars (tender, gondola, tanker, caboose), but it'll have to wait to Monday or Tues when I can grab the camera from my wife (the Boss) again! I've been afraid to keep track of time spent ... I try to get in a half hour or hour most days ... I find the work kind of relaxing. But I have no idea of the tally. Cost isn't too high ... old Lionel set on ebay was pretty cheap, then spray paint and primer, some photo prints, etc. on top of that ... whole set under $50.

In the photos above, I FORGOT to add the black lines on top of the window sills. Dohh! I've since gone back and penned them in. Happy camper now!

The next task ahead will be to jump into the 1681 loco ... shell, frame, motor, etc. But I think I'll take a little break, first!

Cheers guys!

TJ


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## T-Man

It's a great transformation!
Keep those pdf files handy on the logos.
The paint finish work isn't always that exciting to do.


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## Big Ed

Now that you can duplicate the markings, you can do the tanker body too?:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Ed and T-Man,

These pics are for you ...

Cheers,

TJ

Restored freight set (except loco), including transformer station (no base yet):









Insignia logos. "1677" should be printed at 600 dpi. "1682" at 430 dpi. "Lionel Lines" at 600 dpi for the 1677 gondola, and at 430 dpi for the 1682 caboose.


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## T-Man

Great Work TJ. I almost embarrassed to post anymore.

I wonder, if it would be simpler to make a decal window and door. It would match the number color and may be easer to apply. You have the rivets down cold.


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## imatt88

TJ,

Holy crap!!!!

Absolutley amazing work!!!! Can you say museum quality?

Cheers, Ian


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## tjcruiser

You guys are really very kind, and I'm humbled by your nice comments.

T-Man ... I did think about making the windows and doors on the caboose out of images printed on photo paper (same as per the insignia logos). My reluctance was worrying about how to cut out the actual windows in the rather-thick photo paper, without bending and ruining the paper of the abutting window frame. Careful Exacto razor work, maybe, but not much side-margin to work with. I know that there are a few other guys here who've worked with actual decal paper that can be custom printed ... maybe that's thinner, and easier to cut out windows and the like? I've never seen the stuff firsthand to know.

I did have to fiddle with the tone of the beige color on my "1682" logo a bit such that it matched my Krylon cream color paint that I used for the windows. My first Walmart photo printing of the logo came out with a yellow/cream that was too dark. So, I went back to the computer, cut-and-pasted the image several times over, and then editted each one with progressively lighter shades of cream color. I figured the "right answer" would be in there somewhere. Then, I printed all of the variations on one 4"x6" photo, and bingo ... one of them was a near-perfect match to the cream paint. Trial and error paid off.

After all of this paint work, I'm looking forward to getting back into the mechanics of servicing the 1681 motor, wheels, etc. The paint cans can take a good, long rest, as far as I'm concerned!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

Why didn't you add the engine in the picture?
Did you scratch it up all ready?

It all looks great!:thumbsup:



Except the tanker it sticks out like a sore thumb.



You just got to do the tanker to make it match the rest.
The frame is all done. 
You can do it, I know you can.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

*Project Update: Loco Work Begins ...*

Gents,

Well, per the post title, I'm jumping into loco work. I know you're all chuckling, because the work I've done to date on the freight cars has been a bit "loco" in itself, but my sanity drifted away a long time ago!

Quick refresher ...

This thread tracks my restoration attempts on a Lionel 1054 freight set, circa 1934. The *locomotive is a 2-4-0 #1681*, similar to my recently-restored 1681E, but this one here *has a manual direction switch*, rather than a conventional E-unit.

The loco shell and frame will need a full strip/prime/paint job. But my paint cans are resting (yeah!!!), and I've switched gears to mechanical issues.

Somewhere along the line, a prior owner had inadvertently flip-flopped wheels, such that the right-side drive-rod arm was position on the forward wheel, rather than the rear wheel. Pretty clueless. So, to set things straight, I had to remove the wheels to (eventually) put them back into proper position.

The wiring is all brittle and dry, and will have to be replaced. (Windings on the field and armature are OK, though. I did get the motor to run!) Prior to removing any of the old wiring, I wanted to make sure I fully understood how the circuitry of the manual switched worked, so that I could rewire properly. So, pics and wiring diagram below depict things pretty clearly (I hope).

The manual switch (two mated round discs) has four pickup points mounted on the outer disc. Each of the pickup points has a spring-loaded brush (much like a conventional armature) that rub up against either of two "bridge plates" on the second disc which rotates 90-degrees with the direction toggle. The relative position of the bridge plates (with respect to the pickup points) dictates which way current flows through motor.

*On this 1681 loco, direction change is initiated by flipping the direction of current through the field. The direction of current through the armature always stays the same.*

I had to remove the "contact shoe assembly" at the bottom of the motor frame. It's in OK shape, but I'll need access to its inner face in order to solder on a new hot-lead wire.

More to come ... eventually!

Cheers,

TJ


Motor as found. Note drive-rod stud on forward wheel! 










That's the "double disc" manual switch mounted on the rear.










Things disassembled. You can see the spring-loaded pickup points between the two discs of the switch.










A wire runs from switch to the "upper brush can" of the armature. The other (lower) brush can is grounded to the motor frame (and wheels / outer rails).










Wiring diagram showing FORWARD, REVERSE, and NEUTRAL positions. Direction is changed via flipping the direction of current through the field.


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## Big Ed

I thought the engine was all done?

I guess I was thinking the other engines you did went with the cars.

So......you going to tackle that tanker too someday?


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed,

My problem is that I've surrounded myself with too many old, tired, needy little 1681 locos... 

The first one was the 1681E (with E-Unit) that I restored (with mating tender) in my earlier thread. All nice and shiny now, and tucked away under glass case. :thumbsup:

The second one is the 1681 (with manual direction switch) that came with the 1054 freight set referenced in this thread. It's on THIS loco that I'm now beginning its restoration process. 

And, I also have a third 1681, but it's just a shell (boiler, cab, frame, etc.), with no motor or wheels. I'm not sure what I'll do with this ... I may just keep it on hand if I need any trim parts. 

Got that? (I get confused, too!)

As far as my little tanker is concerned ... you can arm-twist all you want ... I like the little guy just the way it is. :thumbsup: Kinda beat up and weathered a bit ... not too bad, but just enough to show the origins of this old set, and to carry a little nostalgia forward in time. One foot planted in the past, one foot stepping towards the future.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' with it! 

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Project update ...

The 1681 motor (and manual direction switch) have now been stripped, cleaned, rewired, and put back together. (The drive wheels are still off ... I've primed the wheel spokes, in prep for inset red paint.)

I like this manual switch. As stated above, it utilizes 4 spring-loaded contact points ... similar to a typical armature brush, but here the contact points have rounded heads and hollow backs.

A test run has the motor whirring away just fine. All good, so far!

TJ


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## T-Man

TJ, did you see this engine lot. Looks like the 1681 motor. Ends in two days.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man,

GREAT EYE! Thanks for the tip. I think there's two 1681-type motors in that lot. I'm gonna ping the seller to see if the middle one has its gears on the other side, the size of the wheels, etc. I do see loose brush plates, so those seem to be there.

I have a 3rd 1681 shell without a motor. I wasn't planning on doing anything specific with it ... spare parts and all. But if a motor comes my way ...

Hmmm...

Thanks for thinking of me!

TJ


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## tjcruiser

*Dohhh!!!*

:thumbsdown:

I'm bummed ... bit of a setback with the 1681 loco today. The wheels have been off, and I put a coat of red paint on the spokes over each of the past three days. Last coat looked smooth and sweet. But I knew the wheels were old and brittle, as evidenced by a few hairline cracks that made me nervous. I went ahead and painted them anyway.

Well ... with the paint all dry, I needed to step up to the plate, swing for the nosebleed section, and tap in the axles to install the wheels back on the loco...

tap ... tap ... Tap ... Tap ... tap ... SNAP!  One of the rear wheels snapped clear in half. 

My little loco-to-be is a three-legged dog. Not good. And I'm likely fully at fault. It was that last tap that did it. Guilty, as charged.

What to do?

I called Jeff Kane at the Train Tender. Fortunately, he had a repro wheel set in stock ... I figured I'll go ahead and replace all of them for two reasons: (a) because all of the old ones were brittle with hints of cracking, and (b) I'd suspect that the coloration of one new wheel and 3 old ones would look a bit odd.

So, new wheels are ordered. Sets me back $37.50  No complaints on the price from Jeff, but rather a bit pissed at myself for not being more careful, and killing a little (albeit brittle) piece of history.

Se la vie ...

TJ


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## T-Man

Have you ever installed new wheels?
I did use a press. Also I used a 5/32 chain saw, round file to work the hole. I filed from the inside of the wheel with a slight taper. The trick is not to file off too much and you want the wheel to go on straight. I had to file, the wheels wouldn't go on my 248.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man (and anyone else who could chime in ...),

No ... I've never tried to install new wheels on my end. New territory. I'm hoping the new (cast) wheels will be much less brittle than my old ones. Good tip about filing the inside bore of the wheels. I have a nice set of diamond-burr Dremel bits all of different shapes ... cylinders, slight tapered cones, etc. I'll give these a shot to "clean up" the inside bore before I try to press the wheels on the axles.

What's the tip/rule to get them tight (so they won't spin/slip on the axle), but no so tight that they run the risk of fracturing the wheel? Do you guys apply any lube during the axle install? Do you guys add a drop of Zap-type glue or Locktite afterwards?

I was thinking (maybe ???) about putting the axles in the freezer for a while before I installed them in the wheels ... cold temp would shrink them down a bit, allowing easier install. Any thoughts (pros/cons) here ???

Thanks,

TJ


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## T-Man

The axles have small ferules, that help. I had the wheels on the press originally and they didn't budge so I had to grind. My press is huge too. You could mike them for a measurement. They have to be snug and straight. You may need a spacer to keep the first wheel in check when working the second. Oil would help too.


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## tjcruiser

Project update ...

T-Man ... thanks for the wheel tips. Much appreciated. The new wheels should arrive in the mail later this week.

In the meantime, MORE FUN DOWN AT THE STRIP CLUB ... hubba, hubba, hubba!!!

I disassembled the shell and frame, and stripped the paint with Easy Off oven cleaner. Worked great. Not too much rust on this loco. When the paint was gone, I cleaned up all of the bare metal with a stainless Dremel brush, which did a nice job of removing any hairline spiderweb rust veins and such.

The weather is nice here today, so I'm hoping to spray on a coat of primer.

Cheers,

TJ


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## cottonx55

well you on your way of being done but i'd re-rivet and if did this alot like it sounds get the used lionel press (if possible someone let it go) and get the stamps and do the the same way they was done in the what 20's or so as rivets dont come lose so easy and are original hope they turn out ok and i had a box of rocks to play with as hid no not to throw to make forts really live in the ozarks alot of toys lol


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## Reckers

Teej,

That shell looks great! Have you considered leaving one in polished tin and brass with just a clearcoat?


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## T-Man

Really, the guy is a human buffing machine. You should consider it. I cleaned more of my 259 project but I am not cut out for the Mr. Clean shine!


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## tjcruiser

Reck, T-Man,

Flattery will get you everywhere! Thanks for the nice comments.

As I was stripping / buffing this 1681 loco shell, it was evident that the bare-metal here was more "virgin", pure, and clean than my prior 1681E. The surface buffed up nicely. I did "toy" with the idea of clearcoating it (rather than paint), but didn't venture to cross that bridge. I top-coated the parts with black and red paint earlier this morning.

But it got me thinking ... I wonder how a bare-metal (clearcoated) loco would look for a project down the road? Nice, I think ... as you guys hint, too.

Do you guys have any suggestions on what clearcoat material to use on bare metal, for durability, adhesion, rust-preventative, etc? I've used airplane dope hand-brushed on some small parts with good success, but I can't imagine spraying the stuff. There's always spray polyurethane, and also spray clear lacquer, but I don't have much experience with these on bare metal.

Do you guys (anyone) have any experience with bare-metal clearcoating?

Thanks!

TJ


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## T-Man

When Wallmart stocked it, I believe it to be a clear urethane. Rubber to the touch and an akward smell. Just spray it on thin. I cleaned the surface with thinner first. The bare look is IN, it is totally unplastic. Just about all auto's use a clear urethane now. The colors go on light and dull, they shine and darken with the clear coat. My old van I paint on a flat pink that turned to a cranberry red after the clear coat.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man, etc.

Thanks for the clearcoat info ... so it sounds like urethane seems the way to go. I'm really intrigued by the idea of a clear-metal loco ... gotta put that thinking on a future project list!

But on this project ...

Shell parts are now painted. Metal trim parts are polished, though not yet airplane dope clear-coated. I've put the first coat of red paint on the inset spokes of the new wheel set. New (reproduction) replacement drive rods and axles, too. Here's the setup, nearing reassembly time ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

All neatly laid out out from dissection and awaiting assembly.:thumbsup: 
Doctor TJ.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed,

You are always quick to jump in here with some very kind words. Much appreciated on my end! It's nice to have a few "atta boys" from the gang ... makes the tedious work all the more worthwhile.

Thanks!!!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Big Ed,
> 
> You are always quick to jump in here with some very kind words. Much appreciated on my end! It's nice to have a few "atta boys" from the gang ... makes the tedious work all the more worthwhile.
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> TJ



OK DOC!:thumbsup:

If you ever put a picture of parts just scattered all over the place...YOUR GOING TO HEAR ABOUT IT FROM ME!:laugh:


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## tjcruiser

I gotta be careful, or you may find out about my "dark side" ...

I was in a bit of a panic early today. I had lost one of the motor-mount screws somewhere in the black-hole depths of my workbench. Odd size/thread-count, too. I must of spent 15 minutes looking for the bloody/tiny thing. Found it tucked under some dirty rags.

Which, of course, will NOT be featured in any TJ photos !!! (The Dark Side remains unseen ...)

TJ


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## servoguy

TJ,
Harbor Freight sells a magnetic parts dish. A friend of mine bought me one 2 years ago, and it is invaluable for keeping stuff all together. The screw you were looking for is probably a 4-36 which is a pre-war standard. In WWII, some of the standards were dropped, and 4-40 & 4-48 were the standards. If you want to get some 4-36 screws, call Skycraft in Winter Park, Florida. www.skycraftsurplus.com. They have a large bin of them for about 20 cents a dozen. I bought a lifetime supply about a year ago as they are not easy to find. You can find them on the Internet from some of the fastener suppliers, but not for 20 cents a dozen. 

Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser

Bruce,

Yes ... you're right! It was a 4-36 ... an "odd" size by today's standards. I have a few lying around, though have been able to buy them, when needed, from Jeff Kane at the Train Tender. Your "20-cents / dozen" sounds like a great deal, though ... thanks for the tip!

Cheers,

TJ


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## servoguy

The terminals on the post war switches use a 4-36 thread, also, and I think the Marks switches also use a 4-36 thread.


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## tjcruiser

*Breathing a Sigh of Relief ...*

Well ... the old, flooded, rust-bucket 1681 girl is proud to reveal her makeover. A little strip/repaint job, some new wheels & drive rods, engine tune up and rewire, and a polish-job on her metal trim. Not too shabby at the sprite age of 76 ...

(For anyone tackling a 1681 project, I'll throw out my cautions once again when working on the "sandpipes" ... the curved copper wire that runs from the front dome down to the frame. The bottom of the copper wire has to be bent slightly for removal and install, and it's extremely brittle. I had the same experience with my earlier 1681E project. Here, on the 1681, I worked with gentle care, and did pretty well, though I think I induced the beginnings of a crack on the bottom of one. I dabbed on some Zap glue, and am holding my breath. If you go ... go carefully ...)

Krylon primer and paint throughout. Gloss Black. Banner Red. Airplane-dope clear coat on the shiny metal parts. Non-original gold pinstripe around the steamchest ... "TJ style" ... I like it. (I used a Pilot extra fine point gold marker for that.) Copper paint on the headlamp on the front of the boiler.

The original drive rods were peened onto the rear wheel cranks. With my not-so-good experience with brittle wheels (described earlier), I didn't want to fiddle with whacking too hard on the wheel cranks. So, instead, I tapped (with Jeff Kane's help) the inside of the cranks, and installed the drive rods with small hex-head screws.

Some old-time Lionel engineer had his thinking-cap on tightly ...

On other locos, I've always found it tricky reinstalling the motor, and poking the e-unit lever up through its hole on top of the boiler ... without chipping the boiler shell paint in the process. When the motor is in, things line up just fine, but on some locos, you need to angle the motor during the reinstall, and the e-unit level typically doesn't want to poke through its hole.

Well, on this 1681 (with a manual switch, rather than an e-unit), the switch assembly itself is mounted on a pivot, such that you can re-orient the switch and lever during the motor install. It makes "finding the hole" much easier, and avoided any nasty paint chips on the revamped old girl.

So, without further ado ... I give you "Grandma" ... she's lookin' quite perky, I think!

TJ

*BEFORE*









*AFTER*


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## tjcruiser

And ... to keep Big Ed happy ... I figured I post a photo of the Lionel #1054 Freight Set (circa 1934) reunited, once again.

Some exciting news (for me, at least!), on this front ...

When I ebay bought the flood set, it included an original set box (with inserts). But the cover of the box was chewed, torn, and tattered pretty badly. Well, as dumb-luck would have it, another ebay seller recently offered a better-quality box top for the 1054 set. I grabbed it ... for $15.98 ... a bit crazy to spend money on just a box, but I kinda like having a happy home for the gang. No pics of the box just yet ... still waiting for Mr. Postman to deliver.

Cheers,

TJ


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## servoguy

Great job, TJ. I will be sending you all my old junk for restoration. Is that OK?
Keep up the good work.
Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser

*Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep ...*

My eBay original Lionel #1054 set box arrived today ... outer box top and bottom. I had the inserts from the junker/flooded set that I bought.

Here's the gang, all tucked in, comfy and cozy (well, just for the photo). The station building would have held the transformer. (I'm missing the guts and a base.) The empty space on the right side of the box would have held the track.

This project is (happily) nearing completion. I would like to find or build a base for the transformer station, and maybe find some transformer guts to go inside. But, no rush on my end. In the meantime ...

Now I lay me down to sleep ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## Stillakid

*Sleep? It's, "Over-Rated!"*

TJ, keep your, "eyes open", for a package next week


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> TJ, keep your, "eyes open", for a package next week



Welcome back kid!

TJ you can't fool me I know you just bought the box and then added your refinished trains.:laugh:

Edit,
I didn't see the other threads.


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## tjcruiser

Stillakid said:


> TJ, keep your, "eyes open", for a package next week


Jim / Stillakid,

YOU'RE BACK! That's great news! I'm sure I convey a popular sentiment from others when I say it'll be great to have your creativity back on the forum. I hope all is well on your end. I understand you've been working a bit on a garage layout?

As for your mysterious "package", above ... you have me baffled. Something tells me that it'll bring a smile to my face. Many thanks, in advance.

I'm sure you have lots to catch up on here at the forum. Indulge. Enjoy. But keep an eye on Big Ed ... he keeps going on and on and on about New Jersey! :laugh: 

Best regards,

TJ


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## tjcruiser

servoguy said:


> Great job, TJ. I will be sending you all my old junk for restoration. Is that OK?


Oh ... and Bruce ... with the exception Jim's "mystery package", I've told my postman in no uncertain terms to please, PLEASE stop dropping off disheveled, unwanted, orphaned tinplates at my doorstep. I don't have the heart to turn them away, out into the cold and rain, but I think I'm gonna go a bit nuts if I keep taking them in! 

Cheers,

TJ


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## mnp13

Did we ever find out what was in the mystery package???


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## pookybear

Holy Thread Resurrection Batman!!










Pookybear


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## mnp13

LOL

I was going through the "how to" threads, and read this one start to finish!


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## eljefe

pookybear said:


> Holy Thread Resurrection Batman!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pookybear


Nice picture!


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