# New layout ideas



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, I'm ready to seriously consider my layout, I've finished my home improvements that were a prerequisite to me building the layout. 

I have an 8x13 space for my platform, and it'll be O-scale using O-31 track, switches and curves.

In thinking what I want to do, I've decided to seriously consider having a ceiling track as part of the layout, so I'll be using some sort of helix to get up to the ceiling, which is about 7 foot in this room. I'm going to double-track the helix and the ceiling run so that I can have bidirectional traffic up there as well as going up and down. 

I'm thinking along the lines of a modified helix that is about 6 feet x 31", in other words an oval using standard O-31 curves and some straight sections in the middle. Around the outside of the base of the helix there will be a couple of mainline tracks on the platform, then some areas for accessories, sidings, buildings, etc. The helix will be about a foot from the one 8 foot edge, and allow a foot in front and back.

Some of the building restrictions are walls on three sides, and in the remote possibility that I have to get to some of the walls, the ability to pull the layout away from the wall. I'm thinking the section with the helix will be stationary, and the other 60% or so will have the possibility of being moved. Of course, I'll also have to have a couple of drop-down access holes so that I can reach everything as well. I'm thinking inside the helix will be open so I can get inside and work on the track, etc. I might have a drop-down in there with some scenery and/or buildings that will add some interest.

I'm open to suggestions, ideas, laughter, etc.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's a crude picture of what I'm thinking for the top of my helix, I'll use a 45 degree crossover to get the job done.

Note that the two tracks on the bottom right are the ceiling tracks going out, and the tracks, and the others in the top right are the ceiling tracks coming back. The tracks ending in the middle are going down the helix. I couldn't figure a way to get both tracks merged without the 45 degree crossover, but any ideas will be gratefully received. 

Since I cobbled this together with AnyRail, I didn't have the ability to cut track, I will be refining this probably in a different layout program. Ignore the sloppy layout, I really do expect the tracks to lineup when I actually build this!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Making your helix in the shape of an oval is out of the ordinary. It causes you to do a lot more work to make the helix! It also takes up a lot more room! I'm not saying it's the wrong approach it's just harder than a standard helix circle.
You idea of a crossing at the top or at the bottom is a great way to add a lot of pizazz to a layout you just need to be careful with the trains a running, there are circuits out there that will help keep the rains from having a collision on a crossing like this! But then again what fun would that be. 
I've done what your talking about in HO.







It worked great and looked great too!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Since all of these will be running TMCC, the traditional circuits to stop them from collisions may not work, I'll have to think on that. I did consider the risk of collisions, and I may have to have an "emergency stop" provision to prevent that. I could just sense a train on that section and turn the power off. Not sure that my TMCC train wouldn't get very unhappy about losing power like that, but I can always start it up again.  That would be better than a ceiling high crash! 

I haven't totally settled on a non-circular helix, but that's the way I'm leaning. If I make it a circle, how does one have slightly different diameters for the two tracks? Remember, I'm talking O-scale here, no flextrack available. 

Another consideration is that I have plenty of standard track to make the helix this way. Also, while it'll take more space in one dimension, it'll be smaller in the other dimension. I'm thinking of basically allocating a 6 x 3 area for the helix, and inside I'll put something interesting so that space isn't wasted.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Very good point's! I forget sometimes That they do not make flex for tubular O rail. Don't they make Flex for whatever the new O track is???
And can you interchange the 2? I know it would look odd but would it work?
The oval would give you the ability to use the curves with what I assume track you already have and that's always a good thing!


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Hey, grjohn
Glad to hear there are others out there who have "prerequisites" before they can play with their choo-choo trains 
My past Saturday and Sunday was spent doing income tax stuff "before I could go to the garage". :laugh::laugh:
I busted fanny and knocked it down by 3pm yesterday, which sprung me for the rest of the day. :thumbsup:
Aren't wives wonderful? 
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

NIMT.COM said:


> Very good point's! I forget sometimes That they do not make flex for tubular O rail. Don't they make Flex for whatever the new O track is???
> And can you interchange the 2? I know it would look odd but would it work?
> The oval would give you the ability to use the curves with what I assume track you already have and that's always a good thing!


You can mix the two with adapters, but it would be ugly. I have seriously considered moving to all newer track, but the stuff like switches are ridiculously priced! I just can't swallow paying $75-80 for a Fastrack switch that is problem plagued when I can have an 022 switch for $10-12 and rebuild them. You just have to look at the new junk being made in China to know that's not a good way to go!

The "using what I have" is also a consideration, I've overspent my train budget lately by about 1,000%!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

raleets said:


> Hey, grjohn
> Glad to hear there are others out there who have "prerequisites" before they can play with their choo-choo trains


Well, if you're married, you have such restrictions as a rule.  I actually have fewer than most, but they're still there.

When I broached the topic of ceiling trains, my wife thought it was a great idea! I figured she'd go nuts when I tried to escape the 8 x 13 jailhouse in the corner that we previously agreed on.  I don't get more floor space, but I can hang them from the ceiling.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Wow John, A six foot tall helix! Sweet. Have you built a helix before?
I would build a small one first as practice. My little wanna be Helix works good but I sure did learn a lot building it and the next will be way better. Please take some pics as you build. I love Layout construction pics.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have not built a helix. It won't be 6 foot tall, I'm thinking the platform will be close to three feet, and the ceiling is 7 feet, so the helix will be around 3 or 3.5 feet tall. I'm actually thinking on building the structure as a separate piece and then setting it onto the platform and connecting to the track on the platform. It'll also be a lot easier to build if I have it sitting on a table with good access.

I'm looking for any construction tips. :0

I'm thinking of building a framework that's all inside, and have will effectively be shelves sticking out for the tracks. That will give clear access to the tracks and trains, as well as good visibility to them. I'll have some sort of safety rail so they don't peel off and crash in case of excessive speed. 

All my platform experience has been flat platforms, but they're getting boring.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have not built a helix. It won't be 6 foot tall, I'm thinking the platform will be close to three feet, and the ceiling is 7 feet, so the helix will be around 3 or 3.5 feet tall. I'm actually thinking on building the structure as a separate piece and then setting it onto the platform and connecting to the track on the platform. It'll also be a lot easier to build if I have it sitting on a table with good access.
> 
> I'm looking for any construction tips. :0
> 
> ...


Ok, 3 feet isn't so bad. Man I kinda want to see a 6 footer though! 

I don't really have any good advice. Mine was originally just 1 level then I added a 2nd and so on. Note my new Signature saying, "Plan Better" This is what I am talking about. :laugh: 

I searched for hours and only found a few good examples on the internet. Youtube has a couple good Helix builds. I notice a lot of them are built with ATR (All thread rod) as the vertical supports. Would make grade adjustments a snap, but more costly than building with wood.

My next layout will be bigger and in my Garage and will include a bigger helix. 

Oh yea guard rails are a super Idea. Glad you are thinking ahead. Watching them peel off the rails and fall to the floor sucks!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Building a large helix is made a lot easier if you use all thread rods to be able to adjust the the height of each section of track while maintaining integrity threw out the structure!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Threaded rod is a good idea, and one that I'll seriously consider. I only want to build it once. 

I heard of someone else having his trains fall to the floor, so I'm thinking ahead.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Threaded rod is a good idea, and one that I'll seriously consider. I only want to build it once.
> 
> I heard of someone else having his trains fall to the floor, so I'm thinking ahead.


Want to see it again?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I can watch the video, it would be too painful to see a new incident, even if they aren't my trains.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

No not a new crash. I will spare you and not post it here! I will save it for a later date!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was thinking about the helix last night, and I think I'll have a flat area on top to have more room to have the two tracks going out and coming back in. Of course, I have to get the basic platform built first so I know exactly how high the helix has to be.

I'm thinking about 8" from the ceiling for the ceiling track, anyone see any problem with that spacing? How much space should I allow between tracks? I'm thinking about 4" on the straight sections, but I'm concerned that some engines may need more in the curves.


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