# 332 AC or DC ID from afar?



## Old feller

Gentlemen,

I have read most of the posts regarding AC and DC 332s with a bit of confusion.
My question: Is there one thing a person can look at on a 332 and tell whether it is AC or DC?
I am negotiating long distance for a 332 and can't physically see the loco. So I want to ask the owner if they could identify it as AC or DC for me. I am not really ready to start dealing with equipment that operates only on DC.

From American Flyer Express it seems that in 1948 and 1949 they had a DC model that was not marked 332DC. 

Thanks for any help here.

Oldfeller
_____________________________
Trees Trains Trucks Truth


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## Nuttin But Flyer

As far as I knew, all Gilbert DC engines were marked with the suffix "DC" as part of the ID number....i.e. "332DC". Therefore anything else, be it "332" or "332AC", are all AC powered.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It will not have a reverse unit and should be only two connectors from the tender to engine.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here are a couple of websites that may help to identify American Flyer items...the first is a gallery of nearly every item produced, arranged by engines, frieght stock, passenger stock, accessories, etc. Simply scroll to the bottom of the page and select the gallery you wish to view....http://www.thegilbertgallery.org/

The other is a good reference for steam engines....

http://www.americanflyerexpress.com...r-products-directory-steam-locomotives-01.htm

While I believe the latter eventually will contain all that was produced, it seems only the steam engines have their photos included, but it should help with your situation.


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## llskis

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> As far as I knew, all Gilbert DC engines were marked with the suffix "DC" as part of the ID number....i.e. "332DC". Therefore anything else, be it "332" or "332AC", are all AC powered.


N/B/F: Sorry to disagree; the early 332's(Late 40's) where simply marked on the cab as 332. It came either AC or DC. Larry


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## AmFlyer

Here is some additional detail. The 1946 and 1947 production 332's were all AC. They are recognizable by the black plastic smoke tube in addition to the wires between the engine and tender. They were all smoke in tender. All 1951 AC production was marked 332AC on the engine. The remaining 332's were made in 1948 and 1949 and most are DC powered. An engine marked as 332DC is a rare variation. 1950 production was marked as 334DC and are more common. The surest way to to get the engine you want is to purchase a 1951 332AC, they also have the white painted running boards.


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## longle

Has anyone here ever converted one from DC to AC? Easy, difficult, impossible, not worth the effort?

Larry


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## AmFlyer

One additional item on the 1948/49 332's. The AC models have a 4wire cloth covered cable with a 4 pin jack on the back of the engine cab. The DC models have two separate wires between the engine and tender, each plugs into the back of the engine cab.


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## AmFlyer

Dallee makes an electronic reverse unit that allows DC motors to be run from AC track power. Portlines Hobbies sells them. They are intended for use with a can motor replacement, but should work with the original Flyer DC motor. The only concern would be the higher current draw of the original Flyer motor. Simple but somewhat expensive.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well, I did say "as far as I knew"...obviously I need to brush up on my Flyer history. Thanks for the corrections. But the obvious difference should still be the absence of any reversing unit in either the tender or boiler. 

Converting one? Not sure if it's worth the effort unless you are considering the use of a modern can motor. But with original Flyer parts? Probably not.

AmFlyer mentioned a 1951 332AC engine above...I just got one of those for my collection. And I had a 334DC since I was young, currently awaiting a good cleaning/servicing...both are very nice pieces.


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## llskis

longle said:


> Has anyone here ever converted one from DC to AC? Easy, difficult, impossible, not worth the effort?
> 
> Larry


 If one had a lot of time and $$ it could be done; but why?? One can buy an
AC 332 for a reasonable price and keep the originality of the piece. Very similiar in the car
world when someone wants to change a car from being an automatic transmission to a standard shift car. JMHO--Larry


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## longle

I don't have a 332 and it's unlikely I ever will but I was just curious if anyone had ever done it. 

Larry


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## DonR

It seems to me that a bridge rectifier would provide proper power
for the motor, but you would have to devise some way to
change directions. A DC motor reverses when polarity changes.
I suppose you could use an E unit switching the DC as it does
AC for that purpose.

Don


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## AmFlyer

The Dallee circuit board does all those things and is a completely reversible modification. Since the SIB 332 was was made in both AC and DC versions there is no way to tell after the fact how an engine was originally manufactured. To swap an original DC to the Gilbert style AC version one needs the AC armature and field, the 4 wire jack panel and plug, the wiring harness, the tender reverse unit and some original style connector wires. It is not hard and can be done in an afternoon. The question is why? I have two 332AC original 1951 engines, they are not hard to find and should be a better alternative than converting a DC 332.


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## Old feller

Thanks for the discussion guys. I don't know how much the seller knows what to look for, but the 2 wire vs 4 wire configuration should be obvious, so I'll see what he can tell me.
Thanks again.

Oldffeller

_____________________________________________
Trees Trains Trucks and Truth


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## phmo

DonR said:


> It seems to me that a bridge rectifier would provide proper power
> for the motor, but you would have to devise some way to
> change directions. A DC motor reverses when polarity changes.
> I suppose you could use an E unit switching the DC as it does
> AC for that purpose.
> 
> Don


 Using the Flyer reversing unit (E-unit) to change directions with a Flyer DC motor is entirely possible. I have a 342DC set up that way. 

PHM


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## 400E Blue Comet

AC trains usually run on AC and DC, DC only runs on DC. Is the same true for the 332? If it is you could try running it with DC. I'm assuming a DC train will change direction with the switch, while an AC train will change direction when turned on and turned off, but don't quote me on that. After all, the American Flyer Casey Jones is AC but only runs forwards. So I guess you could ask him if he could run it on DC power a few times. Also some AC locos have an E-unit switch.


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## AmFlyer

If DC power is applied to an AC 332 it will operate the same as if AC power were applied. If DC power is applied to a DC 332 it will run in one direction. Reversing the two power leads will cause it to run in the other direction. Just do not apply AC power to a standard Gilbert DC 332.


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## DonR

A DC loco on an AC track will quickly burn up it's motor. It will
try to go this way, then that way as the cycles change polarity
60 times a second.

Don


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## 400E Blue Comet

DonR said:


> A DC loco on an AC track will quickly burn up it's motor. It will
> try to go this way, then that way as the cycles change polarity
> 60 times a second.
> 
> Don


I made that mistake with one of my G scale locos but luckily I was too fast for it to deal any damage. I plugged the track into the accessory terminals- oops. Thankfully it still runs fine, even the smoke. So make sure you ask him to test it on DC and not AC if you try that.

Even if you don't want DC, it still might be a good idea to buy it. I bought my first Z and Standard Gauge trains without the track, and I don't regret it. You can just buy the DC stuff later.


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## lkbeno

*1946 & 1947 332 Northerns*

The 1946 Northern engine was never put into production. There were engineering samples
made for the March 1946 New York Toy Fair and the AC Gilbert factory showroom and possibly
other toy fairs around the country. They were all AC powered and were made up of a combination of pre-war and specially made castings. The first production 1947 332 Northerns
came out in November of 1947 and were all DC versions. The castings were all new and it had
a tender mounted smoke unit. An AC version was proposed but as far as I know was never put into production. There are only a handful or more 1946 332 Northerns are known to exist. Even
the 1947 332 SIT Northerns are hard to find. There is a listing on ebay for a 4621 Mail Train
Set with the 1947 Northern for around $10000.00 right now. Lonny Beno


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## AmFlyer

Lonny, thanks for posting the correct facts on the 1946 and 1947 332's. I think I will blame my poor memory of these facts on extended jet lag from this long overseas trip.


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## Old feller

I finally got the 332 From Oxnard CA. to Port Orchard, and it is the DC model. VG condition btw . I think it is the 1948 model.

The previous owner swapped tenders, so now I am in the market for the proper tender. A SIB, two wire lead, Northern - Union Pacific - or American Flyer Lines - Metal Tender.

I looked up some of what you all indicated may be needed to convert this 332 to AC, and considering cost I think I will leave it original and find the proper tender. I have several rectiformers, and am thinking if I run the 332 alone on the track I can power the rails with DC. I would appreciate any insights as to problems I may have with that plan.


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## llskis

oldfeller said:


> . I have several rectiformers, and am thinking if I run the 332 alone on the track I can power the rails with DC. I would appreciate any insights as to problems I may have with that plan.


If you got a big enough Rectiformer like A/F #14-16 or some of the newer ones; there will be no problems. Also all you A/F A/C engines and some of your Lionel A/F will run on DC power.
In fact you will notice in most cases the A/F AC models run better with DC. Larry


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