# Hot Water's Auction



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

I was watching the auction in real time seeing what people were bidding and what he was getting for his collection. I must say most items barely broke minimum estimated value. Several Lionel, MTH, and 3rdrail engines going for less than five hundred.

I did win the one I was bidding on.:sold: I'll post pics, video, and details when I get it.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2018)

Congratulations Gary! I'm glad you were able to get the locomotive you wanted at a good price. I look forward to the pics and video.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Yes sir, except the stuff I bid upon! It went at a premium and then some! Right now I'm 0/4, still waiting on a few items to bid.

Congrats on the purchase. Enjoy!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Glad you were successful Gary.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Country Joe said:


> Congratulations Gary! I'm glad you were able to get the locomotive you wanted at a good price. I look forward to the pics and video.


Well I'm not sure on the price but I'll take it.:sly:


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Congratulations Gary! I decided to pass on the MTH Mohawk. Do you happen to know what it went for? I never even signed up.

Pete


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Congrats Gary!! :thumbsup:


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Norton said:


> Congratulations Gary! I decided to pass on the MTH Mohawk. Do you happen to know what it went for? I never even signed up.
> 
> Pete


Thanks all, the MTH Mohawk with roller bearings which I was going to bid on if I didn't win the super Hudson went for 375.00


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Figures. What a steal. Thank you for the update.

Pete


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

Sad day for me. 

HotWater is a close friend of mine and I chose not to watch the auction. I doubt if Jack watched it himself. I was in total shock when he shared his intensions with me. Jack getting out of trains? Say it ain't so. But it was and it hurts. 

Jack comes cross at times as a grumpy Mr. know-it-all. That is just his personality. Inside his chest beats the heart of a good man, a good husband, a good father and a good grandfather and a truly good friend.

When it comes to trains, real and model, Jack knew more than any person I have ever met. He can tell stories, name the date, time and who was there and what was discussed in great detail. This was not just somebody shooting the bull, because every time he told them the details and sequence were exactly the same.

Hang in there buddy, there are good times yet to be had.

Jim


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2018)

superwarp1 said:


> Well I'm not sure on the price but I'll take it.:sly:


It may not be a steal or a great bargain but since you got it at a price you were willing to pay I consider it a good price.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

SantaFeJim said:


> Sad day for me.
> 
> HotWater is a close friend of mine and I chose not to watch the auction. I doubt if Jack watched it himself. I was in total shock when he shared his intensions with me. Jack getting out of trains? Say it ain't so. But it was and it hurts.
> 
> ...


I was shocked to when I read he was selling everything. Can you thank him for me. I'll do my best to do right by his engine. The only thing I plan on doing is more than likely changing the sounds when the next warehouse sale comes around. Long as the EOB doesn't crap out, I shouldn't have to open her up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What's his user name?


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What's his user name?


Hot Water. I don't recall him posting here.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I mean on eBay, he has posted here a few times.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2018)

Congratulations on your successful bid, Gary.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I mean on eBay, he has posted here a few times.


Wasn’t on ebay, Stout auctions they handled the entire collection. If that’s what you are asking


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear this. I hope he is well & continues posting.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

hot water would be an asset to this forum as to his demeanor well were all individuals and what we type may not come across as he intended nor do some of mine at times so I say please hot water come join us here I'd love to hear more of your stories as well as what you can share on the trains we love to play with!


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Is Jack (Hotwater) the guy that appeared in a OGauge Train video of his layout with a magazine editor? He was a real train engineer of a excursion train I think?
Steam Locomotive?


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

chipset35 said:


> Is Jack (Hotwater) the guy that appeared in a OGauge Train video of his layout with a magazine editor? He was a real train engineer of a excursion train I think?
> Steam Locomotive?


Check out my thread on Notch6 pod cast interview with Hot Water. Still on the first page on this forum.

https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=175306


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2018)

*"He was a real train engineer of a excursion train I think?"*

I believe he was a *FIREMAN* on the 4449, hence the handle of *Hot Water*. 

I have known Jack for a very long time, particularly when I lived in the Chicago area. He was a frequent poster on the OGR Forum. No question, he is a wealth of train knowledge. I have thought all along when I was active on the other forum that it was unfortunate that sometimes his excellent information was delivered in a less than hospitable way. The obvious result was that some of Jack's comments unfortunately turned off a lot of the folks. 

Do I miss reading his informative comments as he hardly ever posts here, for sure. But, do I miss how this information was sometimes delivered, absolutely not. We pride ourselves on the MTF to promote goodwill as our *first priority*. I am not a big fan of having to use a filter.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Fireman on 4449, 3896, 844, and others, also ran those engines as a engineer. The pod cast is very informative and they plan on doing a part two sometime


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

He also had videos of his layout produced TM productions and was a feature article on OGR several years ago. He worked for EMD in various positions for close to 40 years. I am willing to bet that you could wake him up out of a deep sleep and ask him about the traction motors on (up pick the locomotive) and he would give you the correct answer. He is gifted with a phenomenal memory and recall.

Selling off most of his trains and locomotives is one thing. But having to take a sawsall to his finely detailed layout, thats a whole other ballgame.

He was lucky enough to sell off several structures, but others are landfill.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

I would've paid good money for his layout. A 'turn key' operation would be awesome.

I did manage to score a few freight train lots from the auction. I was pleased. 

One thing I noticed about HW's auction-no UP passenger cars. That really surprised me due to his involvement at one time in the 844 and 3985 excursions.


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

I keep hearing comments about Jack's abrasiveness on the other forum and I am aware of what they are referring to. You could have been amused or offended depending on your viewpoint and or knowledge of Jack. His style of handling questions or comments that lacked intelligence would often lead to a remark that could seem rude or condescending. He did not come across that way to me in person. The bad thing about emails, blogs, forums, and social media as a form of communications is that you don't see facial expressions, voice inflections, and other things that aide in understanding a person.

I have had the pleasure of knowing Jack for a long time too. I like him a lot. I agree with Santa Fe Jim in what he has said about Jack. Every time I have been around him it made me enjoy our hobby more.

Lastly this is a forum where you can say anything you want as long as it is respectful and not personal attacks. But, I for one am tired of hearing this criticism of a great train friend. 

End of vent, thanks for letting me have my two cents worth.

Art


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I do really wonder what caused him to suddenly abandon the hobby, that's somewhat unusual for someone that's obviously been involved as long as he has.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

SantaFeJim said:


> He also had videos of his layout produced TM productions and was a feature article on OGR several years ago. He worked for EMD in various positions for close to 40 years. I am willing to bet that you could wake him up out of a deep sleep and ask him about the traction motors on (up pick the locomotive) and he would give you the correct answer. He is gifted with a phenomenal memory and recall.
> 
> Selling off most of his trains and locomotives is one thing. But having to take a sawsall to his finely detailed layout, thats a whole other ballgame.
> 
> He was lucky enough to sell off several structures, but others are landfill.


I think I saw him in a video with Rick from OGR, they were talking about his layout and he said he had worked on a real train, and he was using a MTH version of that same train that Mike Wolf from MTH sent him.
Same person?


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

This was my first experience with live auctions--I was shocked at the pace.

I placed bids on 3 items and missed out on all three--fortunately none were "must haves."

The other aspect of the auction that surprised me were the number of sealed, never opened item--some of which were a bit long in the tooth.

Congrats to all the winning bidders!


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

chipset35 said:


> I think I saw him in a video with Rick from OGR, they were talking about his layout and he said he had worked on a real train, and he was using a MTH version of that same train that Mike Wolf from MTH sent him.
> Same person?


Yes, same person.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

This is just the latest example to explain my comments about Jack’s ability to answer questions and remember dates, time and facts about events in his life. This was posted today on the OGR Real Trains forum.

Somebody posted the following question:

Didn't 4501 have a mechanical stoker in service?

Jack’s immediate response:
Maybe when in "regular service" on the Southern Rwy, but NOT on the Kentucky & Tennessee RR. I remember being down there when Mr. Paul Merman (sp) was purchasing K&T #12, which was originally SRR #4501. I tried my hand at hand firing her quite a number of times, but the crap coal fuel that the K&T was using, made it a truly back breaking job. I really don't know how the K&T regular Fireman/Firemen were able to keep up on the steep ascending grade up into Sterns, KY, where the interchange with the SRR was.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Pingman said:


> This was my first experience with live auctions--I was shocked at the pace.
> 
> I placed bids on 3 items and missed out on all three--fortunately none were "must haves."
> 
> ...


RE: the pace.... These auction houses aren't just in the business of unveiling museum pieces for folks to drool over and go goo-goo / ga-ga for minutes on end. WE'D love to see Mint unopened stuff like they were venerable pieces of an archive. But to these auction houses, it's all just "stuff" on which to make a buck. So they move it along as fast as they can, 'cause they know there's more "stuff" to be auctioned off quickly. After all, THAT's there business and THAT's how they make money. 

RE: the number of sealed, never opened items.... Again, our perspective of things nowadays is more of an operators' culture. So the majority of things purchased TODAY is to be operated and enjoyed that way as opposed to "owning it all" to amass some huge collection. The latter was a much more common goal in the 1980's and 1990's. But the continued glut of product year-after-year (with skyrocketing prices to boot) made the "owning it all" goal nearly impossible for all but those who have a warehouse in which to store and display their collection.

I have sold dozens of sealed, Mint toy train products in the past 6 or 7 years... because it became painfully obvious to me years later that unless I built a barn in our backyard, there would never be enough room in our finished basement to operate and/or display everything. There are a small handful of items I've kept in their "unsealed", Mint condition over the decades. And I'll admit there's a somewhat high fun factor when one shops from his or her closet so-to-speak years later. It's a bit like shopping without spending $$$$, but we know that's all just an illusion because we obviously spent the money years ago. 

Nonetheless, it can be akin to opening a time capsule when you finally crack the seal on the packaging of something made in 1990... nearly 30 years ago. To put that in perspective, my Dad started me in Lionel trains in 1966... and by 1969 most of the stuff in the 1966 catalog couldn't be found anymore (easily).  I wanted so much to build a Super-O layout, but the track wasn't being offered anymore. Lionel's 1969 catalog was a mere 7 or 8 pages -- most of which was just left-over pickings from that impressive (to me) 1966 catalog... and no Super-O products were even catalog'd in that "pamplet" of a catalog. Had I been born earlier -- say 1949 or so -- THAT's as far back as one would need to go to find most of Lionel's postwar hey-day products. So the span from 1949 to 1969 represent 20 years -- roughly 1/3 shorter than we're talking about now in terms of owning stuff still unsealed in 2018 from a 1988-1992 purchase.

Although I still have more Mint products than I'd care to admit , the O-Gauge gems that seem a bit extra special to me are:


*Lionel's re-issue of its 700-series freight cars circa 1991.* These have the most significant "historical connection" to the former Lionel Corporation's "glory days". There are certainly more "scale" detailed cars offered nowadays, but the 700-series cars have the historical reach back to Lionel's first attempts at bringing toy train products into the "model train" world. Someday, those cars (I have the 4 re-issues plus a few more in that 700-series made a year or two later by LTI) will have an inaugural run on my layout... and they'll make a surprise "cameo visit" appearance in one of my layout videos.  


*Atlas-O's BN City-Series Front-Runner rolling stock.* Although not nearly as historically significant as the Lionel 700-series re-issues, this 12-car collection of front-runner products dates back to 2002/2003 when Atlas-O broke onto the scene offering highly detailed "modern-day" intermodal products. The fact that they had a FINITE number of these city-series cars made them "manageable" to acquire. Atlas-O reefers also hit the scene in Atlas-O's early days, but the ability to collect them all soon became an unmanageable nightmare with the sheer volume of reefers ultimately churned out -- with still more being produced even to this day.  So the BN City-Series Front-Runner train will undoubtedly be another "notable event" when those cars finally break free from their "sealed" status and hit the rails for their first time. 


*Lionel's re-issue of the original NY/NJ Madison Cars highlighting significant office/factory locations throughout the history of Lionel Corporation: Madison, Irvington, Manhattan, and Sagar Place.* Including the baggage car, this represents a postwar passenger train that often graced Lionel's fabulous 1949 Showroom Layout. Although today's passenger cars are MUCH more detailed and built to scale dimensions, those "first" Madison cars (with passenger-silhouette windows) represent a strong connection back to -- arguably -- Lionel's most popular showroom layout of the post-war era.

I'm long passed the thinking that these items are worth gobs of money to the masses. Perhaps they are to some die-hard collectors on the hunt. But these goodies are currently NOT on my for-sale list, since we all have some trains that have special significance to our enjoyment of the hobby's "collectable" era. Those products (off the top of my head) do it for me... and there might even be one or two more that fill out that category. 

Now... back to your regularly scheduled programming about HW's auction... 

David


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

SantaFeJim said:


> Yes, same person.


Very sad to think he took down that layout and auctioned it all off.
For what it is worth, he is a man with a wealth of information who chooses to share his knowledge.
He once got on my case in the other forum, but I realized he is just trying to help and does not pull any punches.
I would rather have that than say someone who placates.
His video with Rick was one of the best videos and I enjoyed it.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

chipset35 said:


> Very sad to think he took down that layout and auctioned it all off.
> For what it is worth, he is a man with a wealth of information who chooses to share his knowledge.
> He once got on my case in the other forum, but I realized he is just trying to help and does not pull any punches.
> *I would rather have that than say someone who placates.
> His video with Rick was one of the best videos and I enjoyed it.*


Rich Melvin and Jack go back many years. It was Rich that hung the nickname "Hot Water" on Jack. 

When I convinced Jack to join the OGR forum he asked what should he use for his screen name. I said well since Melvin calls you Hot Water why not us that. Jack laughed for a second and said "great idea".

The way I understand it, back in the day when Jack operated and/or fired he would not board the loco until the water in the boiler was good and hot. Thus the nickname.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

That's awesome! Great nickname story!


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

I had never heard that story, Jim. That's worth the price of admission. 

Art


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

SantaFeJim said:


> The way I understand it, back in the day when Jack operated and/or fired he would not board the loco until the water in the boiler was good and hot. Thus the nickname.


So who would light off the boiler, a dedicated hostler?

Pete


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

SantaFeJim said:


> Rich Melvin and Jack go back many years. It was Rich that hung the nickname "Hot Water" on Jack.
> 
> When I convinced Jack to join the OGR forum he asked what should he use for his screen name. I said well since Melvin calls you Hot Water why not us that. Jack laughed for a second and said "great idea".
> 
> The way I understand it, back in the day when Jack operated and/or fired he would not board the loco until the water in the boiler was good and hot. Thus the nickname.


Love it, thanks for sharing.


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## Hot Water (Oct 24, 2015)

Jim, and others,

Thanks for the nice comments.

The true facts about my "handle" Hot Water, actually go way back before Rich Melvin and I met and became friends. When I was assigned to work with the Chief Mechanical Officer of the American Freedom Train 4449, by EMD back in 1975, since I was the only employee at EMD, and most likely within all of General Motors, with fairly extensive steam locomotive knowledge and hands on experience, I thus would up working closely with Doyle McCormack (CMO of AFT/SP 4449). Once 4449 was returned to Portland, OR in the summer of 1977 after the Freedom Train tour, I stayed "involved". When 4449 was returned to her "proper" Southern Pacific styling, and readied to participate in the grand opening of the California State RR Museum in Sacramento, in May of 1981, I naturally was involved. However, since I lived in the Chicago area, and the 4449 was home based in Portland, OR I didn't show up until she was already fired up. Over the years, McCormack, and the rest of the 4449 crew began referring to me as "Hot Water", as I generally didn't show up from Chicago until after she had been fired up.

However, there was one occasion when I flew to Portland early, prior to a trip, for a separate business engagement with McCormack, and upon dropping by the roundhouse, discovered that 4449 had not yet been fired up. I went into my best Academy Award Winning performance upon feeling the cold firebox, yelled at everybody, grabbed my suitcases, and told McCormack to "Take me back to the airport". McCormack and I then went off for a few days on business, and upon return, 4449 was indeed fired up. Thus, the handle "Hot Water" was firmly cemented!

Now you know the rest of the story. In addition, the handle "Hot Water" also worked well for my early involvement with NKP 765 in the late 1970s and early 1980s, as well as my contract Fireman work with the UP steam program through 2010.


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

The stories you could tell. Look forward to part two on Notch6. As for your exit from the hobby I’m conflicted. Sorry to see your collection and layout gone but grateful to be able to bid and win your Super Hudson.. You had a great collection, there was six other engines I would of bid on if I had the money. The weathering jobs are just amazing


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## OScale2R (Nov 24, 2015)

I was fortunate enough to win Jack's SP MT5 from the auction. As an added bonus it had a handwritten note from Jack when he had it serviced by 3rd Rail and a note from Mike Reagan when Mike did some work on the engine.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Very neat. :thumbsup:


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