# Inexpensive electronic E-Unit



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Anyone have a source for an inexpensive E-Unit for DC motors? I have a cheapie engine that doesn't have an E-Unit, but it's cute, and I want to improve it for my grandson. He's getting bored with it only running in one direction! 

I've looked at places like Dallee, but they want $40 + shipping for the cheapest alternative, I was hoping to do a bit better than that.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Jeff the train tender....103-1 electronic E unit -sub 107-100 13.50


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

WOW, that is cheap! Is that the complete unit? What issues might I have connecting it, is there a source for instructions? If I can get that working, that's the price I had in mind.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Page 12 acrobat of suplemental 21, A-49 or S21:3-5

Complete and solder 6 connections. Be Careful with the motor tabs.

Tell him your converting and need a case for it. It's a holder/insulator. The space is tight. Peice is shown here

Page 23 of supplement 32 600-8616-055


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Is there a source for a complete wiring diagram for a typical engine, say one using that unit? That would certainly make it easy. I'm guessing this isn't that complicated, connect to the track and the DC motor... There is usually a switch to disable it as well, although I don't really need that to be functional.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you were typing while I was, that hits the spot!  THANKS!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Any way to get a complete set of those publications?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

They are the Lionel Supplements under service documents.
You can download and print all 44 of them.:laugh::laugh:
I have them on a disk but I still search the site.

They start with the Modern MPC era 1970 Supp 1-9.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I kept getting an error on anything below 10, how do you get the first nine or anything past 37? I got 10 through 37.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

1-9 is the same. Only one.

You start here

You are computer deficient?
You have to use the scroll bar to show the numbers greater than 37. They go to 47. so click the arrow.Then Click the blue bar to the right and drag.
Neat info Huh?
Between the both of us we are probably slowing down their server.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmm... Doesn't work for me. I can't get to the base page, I have to use the actual URL for the individual PDF files. Is there an index page?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It may be busy. It may be best to start at the home page. Then follow their menu. I guess Lionel is their index page.

My last "under line" link is the only one I know. 

You go Lionel.....
CustomerService.......
service documents

Click on my first link then find the other two there.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks, I didn't realize that I could leave the search box blank and download the whole supplement. I figure they're a good resource to have around.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Glad it workerd out for you. The site is prone to delays etc. It will get worse as the end of the year nears.

Yes they are. The good thing about them is the parts lists. Since pieces are reused if you know the modern car number you can use the part for a postwar.The color may be an ugly GREEN or something but it will work. I forget how long it took me to find those two pages the first time, ever. I converted an 8161 awhile back. Actually I got the board from a well used 8604 for 20 bucks. The 8604 now runs on my DC trolley line.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm glad I found this resource, since I've been away from Lionel trains for about 50 years, it's interesting getting back into the mix. I'm a EE by trade, so this stuff isn't a mystery, but there's a lot to learn about specifics.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> They are the Lionel Supplements under service documents.
> You can download and print all 44 of them.:laugh::laugh:
> I have them on a disk but I still search the site.
> 
> They start with the Modern MPC era 1970 Supp 1-9.



T, do they make the same thing for under 1970 Lionel?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

If you are into making circuits, check out the technical theads or just google rob paisley or Bowden for links.They show the diagrams. I am self taught from reading the web. I just grab a diagram and make it. With luck it works. I do so much of it, it has turned into a second hobby.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

big ed said:


> T, do they make the same thing for under 1970 Lionel?


Ed, you just have study them. You can apply a lot to postwar but there are none. The best you can do is get a service manual or one of their old set catalogs which are manuals. Postwar era ends in 1969. MPC starts up.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Ed, you just have study them. You can apply a lot to postwar but there are none. The best you can do is get a service manual or one of their old set catalogs which are manuals. Postwar era ends in 1969. MPC starts up.



I was just wondering if they had them online too for post and prewar.

Thanks T, I didn't have anything for the modern period.

And though I saw these when you posted them before, I couldn't figure out how to get to the home page until you posted how.

Now I got them all downloaded.
Thanks 

Do they make any hard copies (manuals) of the MPC?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

No, since the material is free.
It is offered on all the service disks. I have a copy that costs 99 cents along with it came the Lionel catalogs for certain years and some of the booklets. Ed one of the first things I did was search for information. 

Important forum/internet info I copied and filed away.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

t-man, do you know of a cheap electronic e unit i can get that doesn't take up much space for ac motors?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Just use the mechanical one it is cheep.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Just use the mechanical one it is cheep.



the loco didn't come with a e unit, i don't want to cut a hole in it and i want it to look factory. i really want a electronic e unit if i can get one.


so, do you know of any that are available for an ac motor?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Doug,
The mechanical unit has many variations. The 250 loco has the arm pointed down. Or, just mount one in the tender AF style. I have not tried an electronic board for an AC motor. It should work but it is untested. Well it will work but it won't reverse. See with DC the field reversed too so it still goes forward. So far I haven't used a good diode to handle the amperage they get hot and run slow if at all. Feel free to try that's how I learned.
Technically you don't need a lever, cut it off. If you get creative, wire in a small switch. I admire your no hole policy. Moi, my dremel would be whirling. The 100-2 fits the 250 and 2034. Yeah I wouldn't cut a 2034.

Read this, see post 12, Thread


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There are A/C electronic E-Units, but they're not cheap, at least the ones I've seen. I have no idea if they'd fit in the space you have either. This page has it: Dallee Electronic E-Units. The downside is it's $70!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

All I can think of is using a DC unit to switch a relay that will direct AC. A 9volt may work better than a twelve off track voltage but you may need a power supply to do this. That is why it's 70.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A DC unit with a diode and a relay would provide forward-reverse, but I'm not sure how you'd do neutral. I guess you could use two relays and two diodes, one for each direction, neutral would be both de-energized.

Truthfully, I'd probably use a low voltage relay with a zener diode & resistor to regulate the higher variable voltage.

Of course, a latching or stepping relay would probably be a better choice, and you'd eliminate the need for the DC E-Unit. The trick is finding one that would work in this application.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

How about the Hobby corner circuit over here?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those look like sound controllers.  The *AC / DC Commander Kit - AC Motor version, R2LC* there is $70.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

If you go to HoBBy Corner they show some circuits. THey have the whistle but not the e unit. I thought they did.

I found this but I can't read the diagram


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I looked around for A/C E-Units, haven't found a cheap one yet.


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