# This is the dream of a Railroading Arizonan Pirate



## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

So the whole reason I went to google to find a Model Railroading forum to join was to talk about my dream Layout and get advice as how to best plan it so one day once I have the Room Time and Money to do so make it a reality

so lets get started  

Setting)
Type: Fictional 
Era: Modern Mix and Mach
Nationality: American
Location: Island in Pacific Ocean 

honestly the simplest way to describe what I am going for setting wise is to say the American Cousin of The Island of Sodor from the Railway Series/Thomas the Tank Engine stories That is what I grew up on and I want to make an American version of a place where Steam continues in full service along side diesel though NS and UP have my full respect and moral support because of their steam programs I wish more of the big companies would do steam programs as well more steam needs to return 

Scale)
Standard Gauge:HO
Narrow Gauge:???
Minimum Gauge(15"):???

this is the area where I need advice and ideas because as in the TtTE/Railway Series stories Standard Gauge is not the only gauge represented you have the Narrow Gauge inspired by lines like the the talyllyn railway (2'3" 686mm) and the Minimum Gauge represented by the ravenglass and eskdale railway which uses a 15" gauge(381mm) and I am unsure of which Model scales to use to represent these two in comparison to HO.

I know that there are special Narrow Gauge HO scales however I am unsure if American Narrow gauge locomotives and cars ever had as great a size difference as the British Narrow Gauge>British Standard Gauge just look at this picture http://www.mainenarrowgauge.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Standard-Gauge-vs.-Narrow-Gauge.jpg This is the size difference i would like to see between the Narrow Gauge and Standard Gauge for my layout yet I am afraid that the American style 3' Narrow Gauge which most of the Narrow Gauge HO scales are based off of will be like this http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/standard_narrow2.jpg

As for the "Minimum Gauge" there are American examples of this type however they were more popular in the UK  still my problem is which Model Scale in comparison to HO being used to represent Standard Gauge do i use for this 

Track plans are still to be designed i have the setting and concept done but i still need to draw it up  probably will do that later today after i go job hunting 

let me know what you think so far with what i want to do 

Thanks in advance for the advice and sorry about the spelling grammar and Punctuation I am rushing out the door and will probably clean this up a bit later as well LOL


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

That's an ambitious plan. You said you plan to have the room someday. How much room are you talking about?
For inspiration, check the link below which takes you to another forum to my progress on my dream layout.

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?24509-The-D-amp-J-Railroad-From-Scratch


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

D&J Railroad said:


> That's an ambitious plan. You said you plan to have the room someday. How much room are you talking about?
> For inspiration, check the link below which takes you to another forum to my progress on my dream layout.
> 
> http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?24509-The-D-amp-J-Railroad-From-Scratch


I have no idea how much room i would need I dont know quite what i would want to do for size as of yet I still need to draw out a map and everything


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

I think narrow HO Gauge uses N gauge track, I'm not 100% on this but I know narrow O gauge uses HO gauge track. I would assume that the same goes for HO. I know narrow gauge HO is more expensive than HO standard gauge and harder to find. If you do now have a large area to use I would go with N scale since its about the same price as HO scale. 

Just my 2 cents which is worth about 1/2 cent!! 

P.S. I don't live to far from Whilhoit.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

JoeG said:


> I think narrow HO Gauge uses N gauge track, I'm not 100% on this but I know narrow O gauge uses HO gauge track. I would assume that the same goes for HO. I know narrow gauge HO is more expensive than HO standard gauge and harder to find. If you do now have a large area to use I would go with N scale since its about the same price as HO scale.
> 
> Just my 2 cents which is worth about 1/2 cent!!
> 
> P.S. I don't live to far from Whilhoit.


I have HO rolling stock and locomotives and HO track Not to mention right now i do actually have a small premade Layout in HO i will draw out a sketch of it here shortly however It is Buried in a shed and I dont have room to set it up plus its quite damaged at the moment so yea but still I am to invested in HO to switch to N


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

TheDefiantPirate said:


> I am to invested in HO to switch to N


I hear you on that!! Keep us posted.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

These are your options for narrow gauge track.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Cycleops said:


> These are your options for narrow gauge track.


Thank you, but it would be more helpful to see the size comparison of the locomotives, to a HO Standard gauge locomotive. Its the size of the locomotives and rolling stock that I am most concerned with on the narrow gauge front right now.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

In which case this might help you out. Plus here's a bit on HOn3 http://www3.telus.net/KMR/why.html


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Cycleops said:


> In which case this might help you out. Plus here's a bit on HOn3 http://www3.telus.net/KMR/why.html


so thats about the size comparison of say the Durango and Silverton trains to Standard Gauge? Thats a little bigger than i would like however for the layouts story I guess the American Narrow gauge being a bit bigger would make sense  OK so the Narrow gauge of this dream layout of mine will be HOn3 

Now how to model the Minimum Gauge (15" Gauge) AKA something this size compared to HO acting as standard gauge









The only thing i can think of at the moment is maybe using N or Z for that but if someone has a better idea


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

OK so i just spent most the afternoon trying to find a Random Island Generator so that i could Generate the landmass of my layout however until a friend shared links for a downloadable one that looks promising but i need to find a tutorial for I could not find anything that worked right for what i needed So still no map for you all but for now 

its an island with Snow capped mountains forests rivers lakes snow in the winter Warm Idilic springs hot summers prompting trips to the beach rolling hills and plains Think of it as the Island of Sodor from the Railway Series But NOT The Island of Sodor from the Railway series


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

TheDefiantPirate said:


> OK so i just spent most the afternoon trying to find a Random Island Generator so that i could Generate the landmass of my layout however until a friend shared links for a downloadable one that looks promising but i need to find a tutorial for I could not find anything that worked right for what i needed So still no map for you all but for now
> 
> its an island with Snow capped mountains forests rivers lakes snow in the winter Warm Idilic springs hot summers prompting trips to the beach rolling hills and plains Think of it as the Island of Sodor from the Railway Series But NOT The Island of Sodor from the Railway series


That sounds like a very nice railroad you will have, are you looking for a computer aided program to build your layout on so you can show us?


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

JoeG said:


> That sounds like a very nice railroad you will have, are you looking for a computer aided program to build your layout on so you can show us?


This is the program my friend linked me http://planetside.co.uk/free-downloads/terragen-4-free-download/ 

Apparently it can do both 3D renders and 2D top downs which i will be using to generate the Terrain for the base map after which i get a picture of import it into Microsoft paint and draw crude markings for towns Rail lines ect.

Everyone should note This dream of mine is FAR FAR into the future and even then more than likely wont come to fruition however It is a dream that i dont mind sharing with all of you because "For the love of model Trains"


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

TheDefiantPirate said:


> This is the program my friend linked me http://planetside.co.uk/free-downloads/terragen-4-free-download/
> 
> Apparently it can do both 3D renders and 2D top downs which i will be using to generate the Terrain for the base map after which i get a picture of import it into Microsoft paint and draw crude markings for towns Rail lines ect.
> 
> Everyone should note This dream of mine is FAR FAR into the future and even then more than likely wont come to fruition however It is a dream that i dont mind sharing with all of you because "For the love of model Trains"


Dreaming is how I started, now I have a layout in a shed. I was going to say that the program I use is free and does 3D rendering called SCARM. I have ben very happy with it.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

JoeG said:


> Dreaming is how I started, now I have a layout in a shed. I was going to say that the program I use is free and does 3D rendering called SCARM. I have ben very happy with it.


I will look into it and try it out You would not happen to have any suggestions on also Modeling the Light "Minimum Gauge line for this layout would you?


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

TheDefiantPirate said:


> I will look into it and try it out You would not happen to have any suggestions on also Modeling the Light "Minimum Gauge line for this layout would you?


I actually don't know to much about On or narrow gauge rails.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

JoeG said:


> I actually don't know to much about On or narrow gauge rails.


Thing is what im talking about here is Smaller than Narrow gauge this is the size they normally use in theme parks and i just need an idea on what size model scale in comparison to HO to model it


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

TheDefiantPirate said:


> Thing is what im talking about here is Smaller than Narrow gauge this is the size they normally use in theme parks and i just need an idea on what size model scale in comparison to HO to model it


Thats a tough one, I'm not sure there is a model out there that would represent a theme park gauge.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

JoeG said:


> Thats a tough one, I'm not sure there is a model out there that would represent a theme park gauge.


Well thats the most common location for that gauge here in the US however its been shown to acutally be just the right size to be still be a viable working railroad the only think i can think of right now is to use N or Z but im not sure the scaling between them and HO would be accurate


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

TheDefiantPirate said:


> Well thats the most common location for that gauge here in the US however its been shown to acutally be just the right size to be still be a viable working railroad the only think i can think of right now is to use N or Z but im not sure the scaling between them and HO would be accurate


I was actually thinking Z scale myself. There is a railroad park in Scottsdale. You might be able to call them and find out if they might know.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Here's the problem you run into with trying to model minimum gauge (15"), especially in HO Scale. You'll probably have to build every model yourself, at least body-wise, even if you can find suitable track for it to run on.

This was a problem that even the creators of Thomas the Tank Engine ran into. You'll notice that, when the show was still filmed using models, the 'Small Railway' - the 15" one - never appeared in the show. The problem was they couldn't make props that size that also had the ability to move their eyes and make steam. This was in Gauge One, mind you. They already had loads of problems making the narrow gauge locomotives (so much so that between Season Four and Five they completely remade all the narrow gauge locomotives in a larger scale). 

What would your minimum gauge railway haul, or would it be more of an attraction rather than a common carrier?

A while back, I had a thread on helping people plan their track plans, so I'm up for helping you as well. I just became so busy that I was unable to keep the thread continually updated.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Here's the problem you run into with trying to model minimum gauge (15"), especially in HO Scale. You'll probably have to build every model yourself, at least body-wise, even if you can find suitable track for it to run on.
> 
> This was a problem that even the creators of Thomas the Tank Engine ran into. You'll notice that, when the show was still filmed using models, the 'Small Railway' - the 15" one - never appeared in the show. The problem was they couldn't make props that size that also had the ability to move their eyes and make steam. This was in Gauge One, mind you. They already had loads of problems making the narrow gauge locomotives (so much so that between Season Four and Five they completely remade all the narrow gauge locomotives in a larger scale).
> 
> ...


well as stated I was thinking of useing N or Z scale in relation to HO to represent the 15 inch mini gauge because i do see that it would be a huge pain in the *** to model the mini gauge in direct HO even if using N or Z is not perfect it would at least get the picture across at a glance and as for what they would carry maybe "rail ballast" like in the railway series maybe produce and other products from farms that are up in some area where semi trucks could not get into maybe iron ore coal or copper from high up mines as well


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I've just done the math, and Z scale is just a tad bit too big to be in scale for 15 inch gauge. 15 inch gauge in HO would be 0.172" gauge, while Z gauge is 0.256" gauge.

I don't think you'll want to delve into the extremely sparsely populated ZZ scale (which would technically be closest) since Z scale has at least a respectable number of locomotives available. Therefore, I would definitely recommend going for Z scale if you're committed to having a 15 inch gauge railroad.

As for the narrow gauge, I would recommend doing HOn3 simply because of the availability of models and track. I don't know how skilled or experienced you are at scratchbuilding or kitbashing, but if you choose to do any other narrow gauge combination you're going to have to be doing a lot of that. HOn3 as it stands now is also quite expensive. Most Blackstone models run around $400, so, unless you want kits from the '60's (which don't run marvelously) or brass (which is even more expensive; it's not rare to see HOn3 going for more than double the price of a comparable standard gauge model, and that's without DCC or sound) your selection is quite limited.

Getting back to your layout, I find that it is always better to make the geography _before_ you make the tracks. That way it all makes more sense. 

I do have some experience in this field, believe it or not. My island is a lot more ambitious than yours (and naturally unmodelable in its entirety) but its a generally similar concept.








My island (more of a continent, really) is called Lavrunaria and is located in the middle of the Atlantic. Rather than just having one railroad, this continent would have many hundreds, similar to the United States or Britain. It would allow me, if I ever decided to model it, to make loads of choices that I couldn't make when modelling a historical location, such as the continuation of steam to the modern day.

I'm excited to be able to help you. Perhaps if you can put up the island that you generated we can start working on town locations, resource locations etc.?


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> I've just done the math, and Z scale is just a tad bit too big to be in scale for 15 inch gauge. 15 inch gauge in HO would be 0.172" gauge, while Z gauge is 0.256" gauge.
> 
> I don't think you'll want to delve into the extremely sparsely populated ZZ scale (which would technically be closest) since Z scale has at least a respectable number of locomotives available. Therefore, I would definitely recommend going for Z scale if you're committed to having a 15 inch gauge railroad.
> 
> ...


Yea like I said, even if Z is not a 100% perfect match, to represent the Mini gauge compared to HO. I felt it was going to be the easiest and best bet, both with availability and cost. 


With the narrow gauge, I originally wanted about the same size difference, that we see between Standard and Narrow gauge in the Railway series. However, in thinking about it, seeing how this layout is supposed to be the "American Sister" to the Railway Series railway, 3 foot narrow gauge being more common to the US, and it being Bigger to the British 2' 6" Narrow gauge kinda makes sense. I would have to go HOn30, or HOn2 in order to get the 2 foot range. Which as you said, not much there right now, and even the HOn3 is going to be expensive let alone how much more expensive HOn30 or HOn2 is going to be!

With the Island, I have not gotten it generated yet. I need to look a tutorial up for the program I intend to use to generate it. However as soon as I do and get the Island generated I will post the pic here!  

As a bonus for the moment, I Present to you a rough Microsoft paint concept for the custom Livery, some locomotives on the Layout will carry. Only some of the locomotives will carry this livery, because other locomotives more famous ones that have their own unique livery, will keep that livery as it is what makes the locomotive special. For example, I plan for one of the locomotives running on this layout to be a SP GS4 Daylight. As such, it would keep the Daylight livery its known for, but have a new number and road name! Where as something like your average Consolidation, which is used here to demonstrate the livery rough, would carry my custom one! 

The base coat is known as Sedona Red which is the color of the landscape for a Town here in Arizona called Sedona the highlight color is Copper Because Copper is one of the things Arizona is most known for which this layout may take place on an Island away from Arizona it will be influenced By Arizona of course this is a rough example the Cylinders Domes Pilot area and Drive wheels would also get painted the same sorta scheme


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

That's interesting, but where is this island supposedly located? The Island of Sodor was connected by a land bridge to Northwest England, so that was how the locomotives that were on the railway got there. If your island is in the middle of the ocean, how will locomotives such as a GS-4 have gotten there?


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> That's interesting, but where is this island supposedly located? The Island of Sodor was connected by a land bridge to Northwest England, so that was how the locomotives that were on the railway got there. If your island is in the middle of the ocean, how will locomotives such as a GS-4 have gotten there?


that is another issue at the moment...While i would connect it Via a bridge like in the stories it would Have to connect to California and that is not a prospect I cherish due to the fact Arizona and California don't exactly get along with each other only other thing i can think of is a Train Ferry at the port (the Port already having been a plan) obviously it would be for Standard gauge only but at the same time there is a reason why Train Ferries are not exactly in wide spread use the cost and the limit of cars/Loco's it could carry 

My only other option is to say that the trains are shipped over but never head back to the mainland which is also honestly not exactly an idea i really like 

*thinking for a min*(In story terms) maybe connect it to the Baja and work a land lease deal with mexico to run a short line of track back into the US? instead of the Pacific put it in the Gulf of Mexico and connect it to Texas? Oregon is to far north...so yea there are still holes in my plan and i am not exactly sure how to fix them at the moment 

Maybe instead of Locos that were scrapped (in our reality) escaping to the layout the famous designs on the layout such as GS4 and Big Boy(YES UP BIG BOY XD) are modern working replicas


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

If you're committed to the West Coast, or Gulf of Mexico, here are what I see as your options:








You could say that Baja California is a US Possession instead of a Mexican one and then place the island in the Gulf of California. This would be a bit hot compared to the Island of Sodor, however, but most all these locations would.

You could also place it off the coast of San Diego or Houston, or perhaps way up on the northern tip of Washington. It really depends on what sort of locomotives you want on the island, and what sort of weather conditions.

Also, if you're needing an image capturing tool to put up pictures of the island you've generated, lightshot is a pretty good one:

https://app.prntscr.com/en/index.html


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> If you're committed to the West Coast, or Gulf of Mexico, here are what I see as your options:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not fully 100% commited to the gulf of Mexico the west coast is preferable but not a must if and im open to suggestions for locations to make this really work as far as a connection option preferred weather and biomes 

thing is though Washington is to far north i would like a mix of biomes Tropical and temperate Pine forests and so on but i also would like perfect springs hot summers snow in the winter I mean lets look at the Railway series stories description of weather conditions and where they are in relation to the world its way up in the north (i saw some map place the island between Mainland UK and the Isle of man) There are stories where the snow is deep enough to BURY Standard gauge trains and others where its so hot people are flocking to beaches to go swimming 

Honestly another thought has hit me Maybe i am being to unrealistic with how i want the look of the island to be i mean I dont exactly remember any thomas story where conditions were tropical...though at the same time i am drawn to the idea of the crystal clear warm tropical waters perfect for people to swim in  but i guess cant always get what you want...what about off the southern most part of Oregon?

when it comes to the types of locomotives Basically Anything Historical or modern if it works we use it just like in the Thomas stories i mean for crying outloud Look at the locomotive Emily is based off of a GNR Stirling Single a design from 1870 and there might be even older now LOL


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

That's an idea. You could connect it via Carson City, a bit like how the Island of Sodor connects through Barrow-in-Furness.


















If you're really committed to having it tropical, though, you might want to try somewhere in the Caribbean. That might make some more sense, at least for steam continuing, if for nothing else than a lack of funds to buy new diesels. Cuba, for example, had a good amount of steam still operating up until recently. It is the only Caribbean to have significant railways, though, because of its size.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> That's an idea. You could connect it via Carson City, a bit like how the Island of Sodor connects through Barrow-in-Furness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nah its just not possible probably just best to connect it to California at Carson City like i said as much as i would love to also be in the tropical waters its just not a possiblity have it be american and also feature Pine forests and temperate areas as well 

As for the Motive power i figure this line would feature Anything and everything historical and modern a place where the Railroads never felt any decline due to Semi-trucks and highways a true Railway Heaven


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I know where you're coming from, that's sort of what I'm trying to do with my own railroad though it is in historical locations. A good way to accomplish this is to come up with an excuse as to why semi-trucks are unsuccessful on your island, perhaps because most roads are impassable most of the year or something like that (which is a big reason that Russia relied so heavily on railroads, and steam, for so long).


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> I know where you're coming from, that's sort of what I'm trying to do with my own railroad though it is in historical locations. A good way to accomplish this is to come up with an excuse as to why semi-trucks are unsuccessful on your island, perhaps because most roads are impassable most of the year or something like that (which is a big reason that Russia relied so heavily on railroads, and steam, for so long).


right probably what im going to say but of course Semi trucks would be used for around the towns and more specific delivery spots I have given up on the Terragen 4 program and im working with a website to come up with potential rough island shapes 

i do know i want my port to be in a Sheltered bay so the land wraps around it leaving a reasonable opening for shipping to come in and out so now that i have thrown out the Tropical part we have to balance Mountains forests(Pine and other types as well Lakes/rivers Rolling hills/Plains and sea level flat lands any and all passenger trains should be a visual adventure where every time you ride you see something new even if the passenger is going between the same too stops every day (ok exaggerating a bit but you get what i mean)


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Ok so here are Three Rough Island shape options that i feel would work


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Those are quite rectangular, but I like all three nonetheless. It's really up to you, whether you want to have multiple sheltered areas or not. I do like the prospects the second one offers with its small islet, perhaps some car-ferry operations could go there.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Those are quite rectangular, but I like all three nonetheless. It's really up to you, whether you want to have multiple sheltered areas or not. I do like the prospects the second one offers with its small islet, perhaps some car-ferry operations could go there.


yea just remember these are EXTREMELY rough and only supposed to show the island at its most base most of the rough edges and inland water bits and things hanging off the side will not be final like that weird bit off the top right corner of 2 still i agree that all three would be good options of course the bridge to mainland US would be on the right side Im also thinking that this island is going to have to be big enough to be self sufficient and maybe populated enough that it can for story reasons be considered a US Territory that way I dont have to in story worry about Califorina state laws LOL 

I may draw rough map markings to show lines possible lines and what not on them a bit later as we consider which shall be Ionath Island! Home of the New Peavine railway!


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Is Ionath Island the name of the Island, and is the New Peavine Railway the name of your railway? Sorry if you stated this somewhere else, as I didn't catch it.

Anyway, using some quick paint work, here's what I'm thinking for the settlements, in the non-mountainous or forested areas.









Every black spot is a settlement. Not all of them will be the same size, of course, but you get the idea. 

I'm thinking that the standard gauge routes will run through the flatter areas, while the forested and mountainous areas have the smaller gauges. I'm also thinking the orientation of the island will be such that it lies almost flat against the Oregon coast (in that picture, north is to the left) since that makes more geographic sense. It would also allow you to have the cooler, forested areas on the northern part of the island, with the more tropical areas in the south.

I'm excited about helping you with this. If you'd like, I can go ahead and make a more detailed map, or at least my suggestions for one. If you'd like to use something less rough for the island though, you'll have to provide it to me. I enjoy doing this sort of 'geofiction'. I've got a good amount of experience in making up places and towns and that sort of thing.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Is Ionath Island the name of the Island, and is the New Peavine Railway the name of your railway? Sorry if you stated this somewhere else, as I didn't catch it.
> 
> Anyway, using some quick paint work, here's what I'm thinking for the settlements, in the non-mountainous or forested areas.
> 
> ...


Yea on the names I only just came up with them so your not missing anything thats new info

Nice job thanks Though couple things that little bit you put what is actually Crescent City on wont exist thats just to weird a shape however Right where you have that would be the Bridge over the Ocean that connects to the mainland I feel a few more forest sections scattered about would be nice along with some places up in the mountians and need to find some places for maybe a couple of small lakes and a few river paths as well but so far that is looking very good and giving me quite a few ideas

I have not thought of a name for the Capital however that will not be the same town as the port i was thinking that would be on the other side of the Island Think of the Port town being equivalent Brendam, Crescent City to Barrow-in-furness, and the Capital to Knapford. i will try my hand with the others and we will see what works best

Thanks again for all the help your giving me


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

No problem! I will work on a little bit of a route map now. However, I'd like to know a few things.

What kind of locomotives would you like to run? You said pretty much everything historical. Does this include, say, electrical locomotives? I'm thinking that we can have an electrified branch (sort of like the Peel Godred branch in TTTE, a little known electrified portion of the line) in the mountains. 

Do you have any ideas on size? I think we should probably have it about 3 times bigger than the Island of Sodor to reflect the much larger loading gauge of the United States (hence it takes more space to have the same amount of railroad). 

Finally, do you have any additional ideas on locations you want to have, or industries you want serviced? For example, I'm thinking the electrified branch will connect with the 3 foot narrow gauge railway up in the mountains, and they can bring down timber and coal and other stuff from up there.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> No problem! I will work on a little bit of a route map now. However, I'd like to know a few things.
> 
> What kind of locomotives would you like to run? You said pretty much everything historical. Does this include, say, electrical locomotives? I'm thinking that we can have an electrified branch (sort of like the Peel Godred branch in TTTE, a little known electrified portion of the line) in the mountains.
> 
> ...


Well I would not be apposed to an electrical branch but the biggest Standard gauge loco i desire to have here is a Union Pacific 4000 "Big Boy" Maybe its road number will be one of the technically Scrapped ones so maybe 4021  Though i also am planning on having an H&K 0-4-0 Porter like one on display at the Sharlot Hall Museum in Prescott AZ mostly steam however Diesel and Sure Electric will be just as represented 

On the size of the Island unless 4 or 5 Times as big is overkill and ambitious 3 times as big would be fine 

I dont know what all industries right now other or other specific locations at this time  i will have to think on it a bit


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Okay, sounds good, I will work on it.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Okay, so here's my larger and more detailed map with the mountains and whatnot. The darkest areas are mountains, while the lighter areas are hills or elevated areas. 










Luckily it's a PNG image so it sizes up well. 

What do you think of the names? I made all of them up, except for the capital (which is based off the island name). If you don't like any of them, or have any questions about them, ask me, I'll be glad to answer.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Okay, so here's my larger and more detailed map with the mountains and whatnot. The darkest areas are mountains, while the lighter areas are hills or elevated areas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Loving it its really coming together  thanks for all your help


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

In fact i already see how i would layout the Electric Branch Cueva>Osborne>Ortega>Boulevarre>Broadstreet-Upon-Kings which is also where the Mini Gauge will connect to the mainline Standard gauge


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Okay, here's a bit of a rough draft for the railways.








What do you think? If you have any questions please ask away.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Okay, here's a bit of a rough draft for the railways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Oh God thats perfect  THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU that is amazing


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

What will be the length and with of this layout?


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm going to be starting work on the operational aspect, but here's one of the passenger trains I've come up with so far.

*Passenger Operations*
_Montgomery Flyer_
The daily fast train to the important port city of Montgomery Harbor from Iona, the Montgomery Flyer is hauled by the fastest locomotives on the railroad. This includes many streamlined locomotives. The Montgomery Flyer runs daily at speeds of over 100 mph in order to keep up time between the two busy cities. The train takes the Flores-Banksfield-Mauvaise-Montgomery route, departing in the morning at 8 am and returning from Montgomery at noon. 

During the week, two different Montgomery Flyer services are run: one in the morning and run in the afternoon. These are known as the Morning Flyer and Afternoon Flyer. On the weekends, only one service is run due to decreased demand. 

The Montgomery Flyer normally consists of eight coaches, as well as a parlor car for observing the scenery and a dining lounge, located in the middle of the train for convenience. The train only makes two intermediate stops, at Flores-by-the-Sea and Banksfield, for refueling. Additional water is taken on en-route via track pans. In addition to its normal coaches, the Flyer sometimes has additional coaches bound for locations reachable from intermediary stops. For examples, during the weekends, the Flyer often carries a coach for vacationers going to Flores-by-the-Sea and points from there, such as Lago Verde. During hiking season, it is very common for the Flyer to carry a coach for travelers bound for Boulevarre or Indian Pass, which is taken off the train at Banksfield.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

JoeG said:


> What will be the length and with of this layout?


OH hell man i have no freaking clue at this point All i know is its going to be semi Like on multiple full sheets of plywood and not going to be that shadow box style 

And i say semi solid because i figure there will be Disguised Man holes i can pop up out of to do work in the middle like if there are derailments and what not


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> I'm going to be starting work on the operational aspect, but here's one of the passenger trains I've come up with so far.
> 
> *Passenger Operations*
> _Montgomery Flyer_
> ...


Great thats perfect That will be usually pulled by Daylight #1701 "Enterprise" but #845 EFE-3 "Sherman" and Milwaukee Road A1 Atlantic #4 "Chester" are on back up duty if the need arises

Another train i was just thinking was the Ocean Mist Express pulled by an EMD SD40-2s #6821 "Hank" And #6822 Holly this train runs from Iona making stops at Red Bay and Jackshead before heading over the bridge to the mainland this train carries commuters to the mainland for work if they work in Crescent City After the run in the morning which departs Iona at 7:45 Sharp Hank and Holly will Bring a mixed slow good freight down along with their passenger cars carrying Night shift workers who are heading home after work and do general work until its time for the evening Ocean Mist Express Leaving from Iona at 5:00 it makes the same stops and Picking up the before mentioned Nightshift workers taking them back to work and picking up the day shift workers


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

By the way YES i am planning the Locomotive roster as we speak and Giving all the locomotives Names because Locomotives with names are cool  So far all i have is standard gauge locos but still and these are only Diesel and Steam Not the electric or the smaller gauges here is what i have so far  

#1701 Enterprise: 4-8-4 Daylight(GS-4)
#18(24) Ruth: 2-8-0 Consolidation(LS&I SC-3)
#1989(21) Defiant: 2-8-0 Consolidation(LS&I SC-3)
#43 Sharlot Hall: 0-4-0 H&K Porter ST
#4989 Shepard: 2-8-2 Mikaldo (Baldwin 0-1A)
#4021 King: 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
#2012 Arizona(Azura) 4-8-4(GS-6) 
#4393 Missouri(Missy) 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward
#845 Sherman 4-8-4 EFE-3
#4 Chester 4-4-2 A1 Atlantic
#6821 Hank EMD SD40-2
#6822 Holly EMD SD40-2


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Alright, so here's what I'm thinking for a quick little history based off your locomotive roster.

Ionath was an island that was dependent on railways from early on in its history, due to the terrain making roads practically impassable throughout most key arteries of the country. This meant that, as time went on, the Southern Pacific and Union Pacific both acquired significant railway lines on the island. Union Pacific built or bought lines mainly in the east of the island, including the electrified branch (which they worked with motive power acquired from other railways), while the Southern Pacific worked the lines on the western side of the island.

Eventually, however, during the early 50's, SP and UP began to squabble over connecting services and trackage rights. The fight in the courts got so bad that both companies decided to pull out of Ionath. Faced with the possibility of losing their main link to the outside world, a relatively small company, the New Peavine Railway, bought the whole of SP and UP's trackage rights on the island to operate as one unified company. Along with the deal came the older steam locomotives that neither UP or SP was interested in having in service anywhere else, as well as the electrified locomotives which had no other place on the Union Pacific system. 

Thus, the New Peavine Railway was born, operating a mix of UP and SP locomotives. As steam came to an end, the Peavine bought up locomotives as fast as it could, including many famous locomotives. Because of chronic power shortages on the railway, there was no time to try to achieve complete homogeneity in the fleet, thus marking the NPV as one of the most diverse railways in the country by the end of the '50's. Another distinguishing factor was their complete reliance on steam. UP and SP failed to make any diesel servicing facilities on the island before pulling out, thus leaving the New Peavine with no choice but to continue operating its large steam fleet. The cash-strapped line had no funds to scrap their entire fleet of locomotives and build all new infrastructure while maintaining government-mandated services across the island. 

Thus, the NPV continued with steam operations. By the late '60's, with steam completely gone in other parts of the country, the NPV became a railfan's dream. This provided a massive influx of cash which other lines would have taken and converted into money for diesels. The NPV, seeing an opportunity, decided to continue with their steam roster, and continues to do so in the present.

Unfortunately, the disappearance of steam builders means that, inevitably, some diesels are required on the island. Limited diesel infrastructure is maintained across the island, but steam is still the predominant motive power on Ionath.



Besides that, since it doesn't make sense to just have one of a lot of different locomotives, here's what I'm thinking for your GS-series and how they came to be on Ionath:
_Class G-1_
The NPV designation for the six GS-2 class locomotives built for service on Ionath and later acquired by the NPV. They were subsequently renumbered #1685-1690 and put to work hauling fast trains on the east part of the island. In particular, this class is often seen on the Fast Mail trains between Jackshead and New Holland. Compared to later classes, this class had relatively smaller drivers which means that they are better suited for operations in the hilly east.

Numbers: #1685-1690

_Class G-2_
This is the NPV designation for ten GS-3 class locomotives built for service on Ionath between Iona and the vacation town of Wells Point. This class had larger drivers than their earlier brothers, the GS-2s, which meant that they were better suited for fast service on the flatter areas in the south. 

Numbers: #1691-1700

_Class G-3_
This is the NPV designation for six GS-4 class locomotives built for service on Ionath between Florence-by-the-Sea and Iona. Southern Pacific’s commitment to beating out competition in the east of the island by providing faster service was shown in their commitment of six GS-4 class locomotives to service between the resort town of Florence-by-the-Sea and Iona. Later, when this class was acquired by the NPV, they were put to work between Iona and Montgomery Harbor hauling the Montgomery Flyer. 

Numbers: #1701-1706

_Class G-4_
This class, the NPV’s designation for four GS-6 locomotives acquired in 1958, was put to work in the east along former UP lines. Their smaller drivers, initially meant for dual-service work, also made them suited to work in the hilly east. Unlike their earlier brothers, this class had no streamlining or colors and thus put to work on slower trains.

Numbers: #1707-1710


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Alright, so here's what I'm thinking for a quick little history based off your locomotive roster.
> 
> Ionath was an island that was dependent on railways from early on in its history, due to the terrain making roads practically impassable throughout most key arteries of the country. This meant that, as time went on, the Southern Pacific and Union Pacific both acquired significant railway lines on the island. Union Pacific built or bought lines mainly in the east of the island, including the electrified branch (which they worked with motive power acquired from other railways), while the Southern Pacific worked the lines on the western side of the island.
> 
> ...


While that is a great historical base for the Layout I dont think I will be running that many GS Locomotives LOL 26 GS locos XD just the single GS-4 1701 that is a "Sister locomotive of 4449 and a GS-6 2012 which is a sister locomotive of 4460  1701 was formerly number 4450 and 2012 was formerly number 4469 both in real life Scrapped I figure the NPV bought Locomotives right out of scrap yards and saved what they could  and will buy just about any diesel as well Such as the Dsah-9 and Dash-8 i plan to add as soon as i figure out a name and number for them i also have some other addtions from even older stock though they still keep with the backstory you came up with....mostly One of them is going to be explained as a Newly build replica

#1654 Sam 2-6-0 SP M-4
#3757 Sisko 4-8-4 ATSF 3751 class
#15 Sierra 4-6-0 (Based of Sierra #3)[The replica]

Hank and Holly were originally going to be former BNSF and Soo line respectively however after that back story you came up with I am changing them to one will be former UP and the other Former SP I may add more Santa Fe as well from time to time

OH you know i just had a thought about that Ocean Mist Express Instead of Hank and Holly I will come up with names for 2 EMD FP7's that work back to back just like with the Verde Canyon Railway


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Of course you won't actually have that many GS-series locomotives on your layout. No model railroad can come close to reflecting the actual roster of the railway intending to be modeled. I'm just saying that you should try and imply that there are more locomotives than their actually are on your layout. That's why you would have a number as high as #1701; to reflect that there are a very large number of locomotives on the railroad, even if only a small number of locomotives is reflected on your actual layout. I didn't mean to imply that you should have a larger number of locomotives than you listed; I simply meant that you should _imply_ that the railway does have those locomotives in some way.

Those are good ideas for new locomotives, as well. I really enjoy coming up with roles and backstories for them, and for the railway in general.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Of course you won't actually have that many GS-series locomotives on your layout. No model railroad can come close to reflecting the actual roster of the railway intending to be modeled. I'm just saying that you should try and imply that there are more locomotives than their actually are on your layout. That's why you would have a number as high as #1701; to reflect that there are a very large number of locomotives on the railroad, even if only a small number of locomotives is reflected on your actual layout. I didn't mean to imply that you should have a larger number of locomotives than you listed; I simply meant that you should _imply_ that the railway does have those locomotives in some way.
> 
> Those are good ideas for new locomotives, as well. I really enjoy coming up with roles and backstories for them, and for the railway in general.


Ohhh I get it Ok we can go with that Though to tell you the truth if there is a number change from its original one i was just going to say the number also has some Significance to the name IE Enterprise and 1701 (Star Trek Reference)  but even still for now im going to keep it to the 6 pairs of diesels i mentioned the two SD40-2s 2 FP7s a Dash-8 and a Dash-9 i feel a Gevo would be to new and to expensive  Maybe we can say the Dash-8 and Dash-9 were gifts for an anniversary of the line opening in the first place How old do you think we could say the Railway has been in existence for and it make sense?


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I was thinking the railway was a relative shortline in existence since the early 1900's or later 1800's, that operated perhaps the lines around Carr City to Vasquez and Kyleshead, then proceeded to buy the rest of the lines on the island when UP and SP pulled out. Therefore, an anniversary of anywhere from ~1994 to ~2007 (if its a centennial) would make sense.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Oh By the way here is a picture of what #43 Sharlot Hall looks like This is actually a picture I took at the Sharlot Hall Museum in Prescott Arizona (Near Where I live) http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/images/showImage.php?image=porter873-gartner1.jpg I figure there is a mining museum of some kind somewhere on the island and Sharlot Hall mainly pulls trains for Museum Visitors however she can also pull light tram trains along beach side lines and what not Shes very old and only a light mine locomotive so she cant pull very much 


http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/images/showImage.php?image=porter873-gartner1.jpg


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> I was thinking the railway was a relative shortline in existence since the early 1900's or later 1800's, that operated perhaps the lines around Carr City to Vasquez and Kyleshead, then proceeded to buy the rest of the lines on the island when UP and SP pulled out. Therefore, an anniversary of anywhere from ~1994 to ~2007 (if its a centennial) would make sense.


Lets make its Centenial 2007 one of the two will be a former SP while the other will be a former UP  

and i just had a thought actually probably going to be 7 Diesels now with maybe an EMD GP59? for yard shunting duties Obviously they will use a hump system like modern day yards however they would need to move lines of cars around from time to time so I figure a shunting Engine like a little EMD GP59 would be perfect and probably cheap for the railway to get


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

That sounds good. How about you work on the locomotive roster and I'll work on some other aspects like the passenger/mail operations and resources and industries on the island.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

So heres an idea for one of the Electric Locomotives and i wonder what you think about the idea What if the Line bought from the Green Bay Railway Museum PRR GG1 4890? I figure the Electric Branch could have 4 locomotives all of which do not have any ties to UP or SP as they did not use Electric lines at all I figure 2 GE E60CFs from the Black mesa and Lake Powell Coal line and then a Millwaukee Raod EP-2 "Bi-Polar"  what do you think?


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> That sounds good. How about you work on the locomotive roster and I'll work on some other aspects like the passenger/mail operations and resources and industries on the island.


Sounds good to me dude  I should probably start marking which are originals saved from scrap (Though not really) Reproductions or pulled from someplace else


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

That sounds good, though you may want to consider having some freight locomotives as well. I don't know how much of the subsidary railways (we'll consider the Electric Branch as one) you plan to model, but the Bipolars, GG1 and E60s are all passenger locomotives. You might want to consider having some freight power like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Road_class_EF-4_and_EP-4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NYC_R-Motor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGN_EL-2B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_E44

You might also want an electric switcher or two: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Road_class_ES-2


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

So 12 of the locomotives at the moment are Scrap Survivors 4 are Reproductions made by Volunteer Historical Societies that wanted to help keep the railroad alive the SD40-2s were bought with the lines the GP59 and PRR GGI were bought from Museums and restored to operation and the Two GE E60CFs were bought from the Black mesa and Lake Powell Railway so far so good


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> That sounds good, though you may want to consider having some freight locomotives as well. I don't know how much of the subsidary railways (we'll consider the Electric Branch as one) you plan to model, but the Bipolars, GG1 and E60s are all passenger locomotives. You might want to consider having some freight power like:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Road_class_EF-4_and_EP-4
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NYC_R-Motor
> ...


oh i did not realize that Thanks for pointing it out...Though The Black Mesa and Lake Powell are using the E60s as Fright locos hauling coal to a powerplant here in AZ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mesa_and_Lake_Powell_Railroad still your right that they are Passenger locos so finding a couple dedicated fright electrics would probably be a good idea What do you think if all the trains on the Electric Branch are Passenger and Freight mix like they did back in the Wild west days?


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> That sounds good, though you may want to consider having some freight locomotives as well. I don't know how much of the subsidary railways (we'll consider the Electric Branch as one) you plan to model, but the Bipolars, GG1 and E60s are all passenger locomotives. You might want to consider having some freight power like:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Road_class_EF-4_and_EP-4
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NYC_R-Motor
> ...


So make that 16 saved from Scrap Virginian EL-2b Number 126 PRR E44 4466 and two OF THE CUTEST LOOKING ELECTRIC SWITCHER LOCOMOTIVES XD MILWAUKEE ROAD ES-2s Bobo and Bibi E80 E82


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Here is the Updated Roster Split into catagorys based on the types of trains they would mainly pull and a marking to denote their past 

((SS=Saved from Scrap Rep=Replica FROM=Bought from Museum or another railway Leftover=Bought from UP/SP After abandonment)) and colored to the line they are on this is only Standard Gauge at the moment 

Express Passenger:
#1701 "Enterprise" 4-8-4 Daylight(GS-4) SS
#845 "Sherman" 4-8-4 EFE-3 SS
#4 "Chester" 4-4-2 A1 Atlantic SS
#6450 "Mia" FP7 SS
#6451 "Maya" FP7 SS

General Freight/Passenger:
#18 "Ruth" 2-8-0 Consolidation(LS&I SC-3) Rep
#21 "Defiant" 2-8-0 Consolidation(LS&I SC-3) Rep
#1989 "Shepard" 2-8-2 Mikaldo (Baldwin 0-1A) SS
#2012 "Arizona(Azura)" 4-8-4(GS-6) SS 
#4393 "Missouri(Missy)" 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward SS
#6821 "Hank" EMD SD40-2 Leftover
#6822 "Haley" EMD SD40-2 Leftover
#4890 "William" GG1 From
#2001 "Stitch" GE E60 From BM&LP
#2002 "Twitch" GE E60 From BM&LP
#E5 "Sarah" MILW EP-2 SS
#126 "Andrews" EL-2B SS
#4466 "Boxer" E44 SS

Excursion/Light duty: 
#43 "Sharlot Hall" 0-4-0 H&K Porter ST) REP
#1654 "Sam" 2-6-0 M-4 SS
#15 "Sierra" 4-6-0 (Based of Sierra #3) REP

Heavy Freight:
#4021 "King" 4-8-8-4 Big Boy SS
#1282 (Jons GF I need to get the name from him) Dash-8
#1281 "Jon Zikosky" Dash-9)

Shunting:
#1991 "Gene" EMD GP59 From
#E80 "Bobo" ES-2 SS
#E82 "Bibi" ES-2 SS


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

You could do mixed trains, though you have to remember that they would have to be rather slow as freight cars can't handle high speeds. In general, since the electrified branch is going to be rather busy, having a mixed train won't be a very good idea on it. Some of the smaller branches may be right for mixed trains. 

Here's what I'm thinking for the industries:

Industries
The industries on Ionath are quite extensive and varied.
North - Exchange, Bedford Bay, San Gabriel
This region is mostly known for its extensive fisheries. All three towns are ports, so they do see a good amount of imported mixed goods, as well as a significant amount of refrigerated fish traffic. Besides that, this region also exports lumber from the Pemberton Forest to points overseas and other mixed traffic.

In: Mixed Goods, Lumber
Out: Petroleum, Fish, Mixed Goods, Food

East - Cold Harbor, Battery Point, Dukes, Concorde, New Holland
This region has a less extensive fishery network than that of the north. However, because of the proximity to the mainland, this region does see a lot of coastal shipping, especially Cold Harbor and New Holland. Imports include food and other mixed goods, while this region has significant exports in the form of lumber and various minerals mined in the hills. 

In: Mixed Goods, Lumber, Minerals
Out: Food, Mixed Goods, Fish

Southeast - Los Rios, Jackshead, Easter Bay
Because of the inaccessibility of this region, significant food traffic is required, especially into the resort town of Los Rios. This region does not have much industrial activity either, meaning that freight traffic is relatively light here. Passenger traffic is quite heavy, though.

In: Mixed Goods, Food
Out: Mixed Goods

South - Red Bay, Iona, Santos, Flores-by-the-Sea
This region is quite good for produce production meaning that extensive refrigerator trains are quite common, especially out of the region around Santos and Flores-by-the-Sea. Corrosion at Red Bay means that is is no longer productive as a harbor, but it stays on as a scenic destination that is easily reachable from the mainland. Iona has a significant industrial area that also exports a variety of goods, and Minerals from the Battle Hills and Apagado travel through Iona on their way to the mainland.

In: Mixed Goods, Minerals, Petroleum
Out: Mixed Goods, Machinery, Produce, Minerals

West - Lago Verde, Wells Point, Kyleshead, Carr City, Vasquez
Oceanic fishery is quite popular in the west, especially around Carr City, so fish is quite a heavy commodity coming out of there. Vasquez is the second largest port on the island behind Montgomery Harbor, meaning a significant amount of petroleum and other overseas goods is imported through there. Lago Verde also has a limited amount of produce and wine production that is mostly exported to the mainland.

In: Mixed Goods, Machinery
Out: Mixed Goods, Petroleum, Produce, Fish

Verdant Meadows - Strawberry Valley, Banksfield
This region is the agricultural heart of Ionath and exports a significant amount of grain and corn to the mainland besides that which is eaten on the island. The region naturally imports a significant amount of equipment for processing food.

In: Mixed Goods, Machinery
Out: Food, Produce, Mixed Goods

The Lowlands - Montgomery Harbor, Mauvaise, Broadstreet-upon-Kings
Montgomery Harbor is the main import point on the island and naturally sees a very high amount of rail traffic. In particular, the majority of the island petrol is brought in via this port, as well as a good amount of its food. Mauvaise (translating from French to ‘Bad’, so named because of its poor location with regard to a harbor) sees more cruise liners than imports, while Broadstreet-upon-Kings acts as a waypoint between materials coming out of the interior of the island and going to be exported from one of the many harbors. Most of the minerals from the Tombstone Hills are exported out of Montgomery Harbor.

In: Mixed Goods, Machinery, Food, Produce, Minerals
Out: Mixed Goods, Machinery, Food, Petroleum

Interior - Boulevarre, Ortega, Osborne
This region produces a minority of the region’s produce and agriculture. In addition, a significant mineral mining business has sprung up around the railway’s electrified branch and minimum gauge extension. A significant vein of coal has recently been discovered in this area, necessitating expansion to fully exploit it.

In: Mixed Goods, Machinery
Out: Food, Minerals, Produce, Mixed Goods

Mountains - Cueva, Foxsprings, Indian Pass
This region sees a lot of tourists, but also has some industrial production. Most of this takes places high in the hills, where the 3 foot gauge railway is able to reach otherwise inaccessible mineral deposits. A significant amount of coal comes from here, as do other minerals. This harsh region has to import most of the necessities for life such as petroleum and food, however.

In: Food, Mixed Goods, Petroleum, Machinery
Out: Minerals, Mixed Goods


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> You could do mixed trains, though you have to remember that they would have to be rather slow as freight cars can't handle high speeds. In general, since the electrified branch is going to be rather busy, having a mixed train won't be a very good idea on it. Some of the smaller branches may be right for mixed trains.
> 
> Here's what I'm thinking for the industries:
> 
> ...


Thats Perfect I was originally going to suggest that maybe there was a few farms in the highlands but I just thought about it What if there are some Cattle ranches which the Mini gauge line will help transport to the mainline


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

That's an idea, but you'll have to think about how you would make a cattle truck small enough to run on 15" gauge track. It's a bit difficult to fit people on that size of locomotive, much less animals.


Now that we've got a pretty good idea of the 'prototype' railroad, how about we get down to seeing what you want to model. The first thing I think I can ask about that is what kind of size you want the layout to be? No definites, just a very rough estimate; do you want it to be a super large layout, a medium sized one, etc?


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> That's an idea, but you'll have to think about how you would make a cattle truck small enough to run on 15" gauge track. It's a bit difficult to fit people on that size of locomotive, much less animals.
> 
> 
> Now that we've got a pretty good idea of the 'prototype' railroad, how about we get down to seeing what you want to model. The first thing I think I can ask about that is what kind of size you want the layout to be? No definites, just a very rough estimate; do you want it to be a super large layout, a medium sized one, etc?


XD true So maybe more along the lines of Goats and Sheep Wool being transported by the 15"(16-17") Line 

as for layout size Its going to be a Super large layout Im thinking some area's between the tracks would contain disguised Manholes which i can come up from and fix problems or whatnot  But we are not doing the Snakeing Shadow Box style For sure This is A rectangular layout


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Do you mean a freestanding rectangle? Sort of like a 4x8? That's a bit of an awkward plan for a larger layout like this one would be. It would be a lot better to put it up against the walls. The problem is you can't really reach deep into the layout, and having removable sections will only go so far.

What sort of operations do you like the best? Do you like doing mainline running or switching more? Do you like passenger trains or freight trains more, or about equally?


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Do you mean a freestanding rectangle? Sort of like a 4x8? That's a bit of an awkward plan for a larger layout like this one would be. It would be a lot better to put it up against the walls. The problem is you can't really reach deep into the layout, and having removable sections will only go so far.
> 
> What sort of operations do you like the best? Do you like doing mainline running or switching more? Do you like passenger trains or freight trains more, or about equally?


Yea true but at the same time its what looks the best so Manhole hatches it will have to be maybe four in total 

You know I like a bit of everything Freight Passenger Switching Mainline running shunting Honestly all of it


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Hmm, alright. Do you have any estimates on size? We're talking rough numbers here, it doesn't have to be anything exact, just something in the neighborhood of what you're envisioning.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Hmm, alright. Do you have any estimates on size? We're talking rough numbers here, it doesn't have to be anything exact, just something in the neighborhood of what you're envisioning.


I honestly dont know I have little experince with actual layout dimensions in the morning i will Go out to my shed where my current layout sits buried and see if i can maybe using a tape mesure come up with Measurements of it however I already know i want to go bigger than it


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Alright, that sounds good, you should get those measurements to see what we'll be dealing with.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Alright, that sounds good, you should get those measurements to see what we'll be dealing with.


well and like i said I want to Go Even Bigger than what i have right now this is just to kinda get a starting point....OHHHHHH I JUST HAD AN IDEA it would need way more room but what if The layout was designed so that It pulls apart kinda like how Kitchen Tables do then if i ever need to get to a specific place i can just pull sections apart like a sliding puzzle


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Yeah, that would be the logical way to build it, so it could be taken apart and moved if the need ever arises.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> Yeah, that would be the logical way to build it, so it could be taken apart and moved if the need ever arises.


Not only that but of course each module is on its own type of tracks so i can just slide them apart enough to slide through and do work


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

ok i just got back in from Measuring my current layout to give us a starting base line in deciding how big this future one will be

My Current layout as the biggest Layout i have experience with is 4' wide length is somewhere between 6 to 8 foot

the Width of the layout was the easiest to get surprisingly as i said its buried i will attach pictures to show you what i mean the hardest to get was the Length as shown by my estimate Mainly because i was tripping over a ton of stuff trying to get to the back of the shed but also because i technically did not bring a long enough tape measure but from what i did get i can safely estimate its in the 6 to 8 foot long range here is also a drawing of what the layout looks like 

((OK So the pictures broke again I will have to upload them again as seperate posts))


i had to upload the drawing of my current layout as i needed to take it into MS paint to touch it up and make it clear what was going on the dashed line is a tunnel the red lines represent a bridge that actually is no longer there and thus just is floating track and the blue oval in the corner represents a pond it might not be right there but there is a pond on this layout


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

the corner of my layout is all thats visable from the doorway of the shed and as you can see the shed is just jam packed with stuff and thus leaving me no room to play with my layout not that the shed even has power running to it to power the trains


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I see! Do you plan on having your new layout in the same kind of shed setup, in the basement of a future house, or in another shed? I'm just trying to get a feel for around how big you think it will be, since it'll have to be pretty sizable to run some of the power you want to.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

a future basement or a future shed yea I am not sure when this layout will be build hell i dont even have the money really to run the one i own right now even if there was room for it  I have enough HO stock that im to invested in HO but not enough with the right couplers and such that i can consider going to N or smaller so this could be a 20-30 year future layout at this point LOL


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I suppose so, you'll have to think long and hard about the pros and cons of each scale to decide which one you want. I feel like the work we've done, though, will make it a lot more simple to plan a layout, when you get around to doing so. That'll be a lot more simple when you know what space you're dealing with, of course.


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## TheDefiantPirate (Apr 2, 2017)

Dreadnought said:


> I suppose so, you'll have to think long and hard about the pros and cons of each scale to decide which one you want. I feel like the work we've done, though, will make it a lot more simple to plan a layout, when you get around to doing so. That'll be a lot more simple when you know what space you're dealing with, of course.


exactly and thank you once again for all your help


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

No problem, glad to help!


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