# New 3rd Rail SD7/9



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Mine arrived today, delayed due to weather over a weekend, UPS said. I ordered the UP version.

*It arrived in perfect shape.* Very well packed, easy to unpack. Nothing to assemble, etc. I read the manual, finally found the switches, and set it to run conventionally, etc.

*It is a very, very, very good model.* 3rd Rail said it was going to be ABS bodied, I recall. Maybe it is. It feels and weighs as much as a if all metal. Excellent detail, paint, graphics. A really superb model by any standard - and while I like all toy trains, my own standards are rather high. This is a good one!

*It is bigger than I expected*. The only SD7 locos I've been around are my two Lionel traditional size ones. I didn't realize the Lionel were so reduced in size or these locos so big. 

*It runs okay. * It runs only on 72" or larger curves, despite being a diesel no bigger than many I have that will run on 54 or even 42 inch. But okay . . . . It's TMCC, and in my experience, in conventional TMCC locos always either jackrabbit, or close. This one is just close, and not as bad as many. It is eager to get started at even low voltages, and not one to go really slowly. Strange that my TMCC Train of Tomorrow is much better in this regard, but this one is okay. It is finely controllable as to speed and take off - well, sort of anyway - after after some learning and with a bit of judicious care with the throttle, and the drive is _quiet:_ the only noise is the wheels on the rail.

*And that's my problem, wheels-on-rails is the only sound* I can get it to make. No prime mover sound, no matter how I set the sound volume or switches. No bell. No horn. Oh damn!! I hate it when this happens. I spent half an hour scouring the loco (and the manual) fro any hint of another switch to adjust, but there wasn't one. Apparently, something is not right with my new baby. There is no sound . . . 








*Well, not exactly, the smoke unit makes a good bit of high-quality fan noise when running.* The switch was not labeled smoke, and it was set to off, so I turned it from Off to see if it controlled the sound, but no, it doesn't but the smoke came on and is incredible. And, technically, since I turned on the smoke, the loco is, according to 3rd Rail, not returnable, althoygh since it has a flaw I imaguine Scott Mann would let me send it back for repairs. Not sure I will. Going to think about it. 








Anyway, it was going to sit on this shelf 99% of the time, with so many other locos to compete with, so for now it goes here. I bought it knowing it would do this 99% of the time, so despite the sound issue its doing about what it would ahve anyway. I'll mull over returning it or not after I hear from Scott - maybe there is a switch somewhere I missed.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

Wow you are more forgiving than I. I'd be really upset if the sound didn't work on a model of that price. It does look nice. Good luck


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I said in another thread just today, on quality of modern locos, that 3rd Rail responds better than any other manufacturer. Scott got back to my e-mail in only an hour and a half. They turned the sound off with TMCC at hisoffices to check that the drive was not making weird noises and didn't turn it back on. Without TMCC I can't turn it on. I may find someone who has a controller to help me turn it on, or I may just leave it on the shelf. Frankly I don't really like locos that are so skitish on control like this one. Not sure why my 3rd Rail ToT runs so well in conventional (just like a modern Legacy loco in conventional, very sweetly) - I was hoping this SD7/9 would be the same way. I have lots of diesels I much prefer to operating this one. Given that, it will probably just sit and do its part in the display collection at least for now. Not sure what would be involved in setting it up for TMCC and changing it, and it's the holidays, so . . . disappointment, but no one died.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm confused. Turned off the sound? The only way to turn off the sound using the ERR stuff that 3rd Rail uses is to pull a plug! There is no "disable" command that kills it.

Another thing is the ERR Cruise Commander may be in 32 step mode, it should have much better low speed performance than you are describing.


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## PW Trains (Nov 5, 2015)

Hope you get the speed and sound issues ironed out quickly. 

That engine is too nice to sit on the shelf.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm confused. Turned off the sound? The only way to turn off the sound using the ERR stuff that 3rd Rail uses is to pull a plug! There is no "disable" command that kills it.
> 
> Another thing is the ERR Cruise Commander may be in 32 step mode, it should have much better low speed performance than you are describing.


Now I am confused. Third Rail said it had TMCC, and I assumed it did since it runs rather fast in conventional like most TMCC locos do.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> Now I am confused. Third Rail said it had TMCC, and I assumed it did since it runs rather fast in conventional like most TMCC locos do.


Third Rail I believe now uses the ERR Cruise Commander setup to get TMCC control in their products. They should have pretty good slow speed control, even in conventional.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Lee, 3rd Rail uses ERR Cruise. Hard to say what the sound issue without taking the shell off. Scott will take it back for repair he just won't refund your money if you used the smoke unit. 

Pete


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm not sure what I am going to do. I could send it back, but again, given it is so throttle sensitive, I would not run it much. Scott has told me on two of my locos now, this one and my ATSF 2929 three years ago, that I really need to run them with a TMCC controller to be satisfied when running them, and I think he is right. So since I don't intend to get a Cab-1 controller, etc.,, it seems pointless to fix this SD7/9 so it runs well. It's just puzzling that my 3rd Rail Train of Tomorrow EMD E runs sooooo smooth and slowly. It is a jewel. 

Anyway, I am not being inconsistent here, even if people think this is weird. I bought a used 3rd Rail N&W Jawn Henry recently just to display. I did test it (it ran, it made sounds) but I doubt it will ever run again in my lifetime. Its on the shelf alongside all the other turbines, doing what I wanted it to do: being a shelf queen. 

So many locos, so little time on the track.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Good looking diesel Lee but I would get the sound system fixed.

Bill


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

It's too nice not to be running perfectly! Good Luck Lee.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I can't believe that engine has to run on 072. That really surprises me. Anyways Lee, I wish you nothing but the best with your new purchase.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Lee, looks fantastic. Congrats. Hope you can get it to run as smooth as your Train of Tomorrow.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It's going back. After thinking about it overnight, it is such a spectacular looking loco, that if it had good sound I would run it, despite it being among the fussier locos as to throttle setting I would have. 

It is important to realize that although yes, at their best MTH's Euro series engines rival the detail and quality of 3rd Rail's engines, nothing, just nothing I've seen ever looks better. This is as good a model as you are ever going to see, very detailed and well made -- just a lovely, superb looking workhorse! And the smoke - oh, yes!!! That smoke. Wow. So I want it perfect. 

I packed it all up this morning. Miraculously I got every bit of packing sponge in place (there were something around fifteen pieces) and wrapper, and cardborad spacers, and styrofoam perfect, and it all fit back in the original boxes. I'll take it by UPS today or tomorrow. I've already sent a message to Scott.

And I don't know what the problem is. It sometimes makes a brief blow-down sound when powered up or down, which may indicate thespeaker is connected, and something else is wrong, but I know Scott will fix it. 

Here it is read to ship back.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Beautiful Loco Lee. I'm glad you decided to get it right. You'll enjoy it more if it's 100%. Good luck.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It would be a shame to not be able to run this beautiful engine. We look forward to it's return to the fleet.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It would be a shame to not be able to run this beautiful engine. We look forward to it's return to the fleet.


So do I. It is a lovely model and while I thought maybe I could fix or reset it, the fact that it makes that slight blowdown sound on powerful and down indicates something makes sound, which worries me. Regardless, Scott is first class, so I know I will get it back in good shape.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm sure they can fix it.

I just had an odd thought, but it would require you to have at least a TMCC set. There are a couple of volume controls on the newer RailSounds cards, I wonder if the running sounds were turned down when they were testing? I'll bet that's the issue.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Lee

Scott put this out at the place concerning your issue

A NOTE TO 3 RAIL CONVENTIONAL RUNNERS. WE TURNED OFF THE SOUND DURING INSPECTION AT THE FACTORY. THE RAILSOUNDS BOARD REMEMBERS THIS SETTING. WHEN ONE RUNS THE MODEL IN CONVENTIONAL MODE, THE SOUND REMAINS TURNED OFF. ONE MUST HAVE ACCESS TO A TMCC SIGNAL TO TURN THE SOUND BACK (AUX1 - 1,1,1,1)* ON... SIGH..... IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING.
I SUGGEST TO ALL THAT STILL ONLY RUN CONVENTIONAL, INVEST IN A CAB-1L OR LEGACY REMOTE. THEN YOU CAN FULLY ENJOY THESE MODELS.
Off to China. SP S-12 inspection, El Capitan 2nd Run Production and many projects in design.
Scott Mann
3rd Rail http://www.3rdrail.com


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

As I suspected, that's what it sounded like.

Lee, take it back out of the box!  Don't you have a Legacy system tucked away somewhere?


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

suzukovich said:


> Lee
> I SUGGEST TO ALL THAT STILL ONLY RUN CONVENTIONAL, INVEST IN A CAB-1L OR LEGACY REMOTE. THEN YOU CAN FULLY ENJOY THESE MODELS.
> 
> Scott Mann
> 3rd Rail http://www.3rdrail.com


Seriously good advice here.

Pete


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> As I suspected, that's what it sounded like.
> 
> Lee, take it back out of the box!  Don't you have a Legacy system tucked away somewhere?


Or know someone that can help?


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

suzukovich said:


> I SUGGEST TO ALL THAT STILL ONLY RUN CONVENTIONAL, INVEST IN A CAB-1L OR LEGACY REMOTE. THEN YOU CAN FULLY ENJOY THESE MODELS.


Or don't buy a 3rd Rail Model. This is not customer service. If you run conventional you should not have to buy a TMCC set to activate your sound.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

PatKn said:


> Or don't buy a 3rd Rail Model. This is not customer service. If you run conventional you should not have to buy a TMCC set to activate your sound.


Yep, I guess they figure anyone spending the big bucks for their locos have Lionel command.

What if the operator only has DCS ?

Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

We tried for an hour last night John. Could not get it to reset or make any sound. Horn and bell don't work, either. It could have been my buddy and I didn't know what to do, but . . . . It is already gone at the UPS store - on its way If its just some reset I could not do, Scott will do it right. If it is some other issue, he will take care of it.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Normally to raise the volume its the AUX1 key followed by 1. To reduce the volume its AUX1 4

The engine remembers the last setting even after its shut down and power removed.

Lee, I know you don't like Command but running a Command engine in conventional is a little like buying Ferrari and installing a hand crank. TMCC in particular can be setup in about 5 minutes. From what I have seen and heard about your layout with few switches it should just work. Other than giving the engine an ID number and then addressing it with that number, control is very similar to Lionchief. Turn the knob for speed and press a button for bell or whistle. This with older TMCC and Cab1L/Base1L what I call Legacy Lite.

Pete


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

Spence they require 072 because of the fixed pilots. The majority of the production run was 2 rail, and the 3 rail models come with a pilot insert if you want to swap to Kadees and close the giant hole for the 3 rail coupler.

The sound just needs to be turned back on/up to run in conventional.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> We tried for an hour last night John. Could not get it to reset or make any sound. Horn and bell don't work, either. It could have been my buddy and I didn't know what to do, but . . . . It is already gone at the UPS store - on its way If its just some reset I could not do, Scott will do it right. If it is some other issue, he will take care of it.


I'm sure Scott will fix it, too bad I didn't live closer, I actually know how to do the reset.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Le

Any updates on this.. Received my replacement engine Thursday. So I know they will make thing right. 

Here is video of my CB&Q/C&S SD9s


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

No update so far. Believe it or not it took UPS ten days to deliver the thing back to Scott. Apparently it got hung up at an intermediate UPS warehouse because of the storm. Scott only got it last Friday, even though I sent it a week before on Wednesday. 
He did e-mail when I told him it was coming and say he would fix it up. I have no doubt he will.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm sure Scott will take care of it, he seems to be top drawer in the customer support arena.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, it's back. Scott Mann said it was only a TMCC re-set that needed to be done but I am glad I had it looked at anyway. 

The prime mover sound has nice volume, but I don't like the sound at all. I have no idea if it is authentic or not, but its mostly whine and not a lot of rumble. Not my favorite diesel by any stretch of the imagination. 

It looks good and runs very well. One strange thing I noticed. At idle, it's smoke unit puffs!! It blows big puffs at about 1 second intervals out both stack. I can distinctly hear a fan cycling on and off. But when it is moving, it blows smoke continuously. I'm fairly certain that did not happen in the real world, but its entertaining. Strange.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

Feel good for you that your engine is back and running fine. Good to have the fix out of the way.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Well, it's back. Scott Mann said it was only a TMCC re-set that needed to be done but I am glad I had it looked at anyway.
> 
> The prime mover sound has nice volume, but I don't like the sound at all. I have no idea if it is authentic or not, but its mostly whine and not a lot of rumble. Not my favorite diesel by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> It looks good and runs very well. One strange thing I noticed. At idle, it's smoke unit puffs!! It blows big puffs at about 1 second intervals out both stack. I can distinctly hear a fan cycling on and off. But when it is moving, it blows smoke continuously. I'm fairly certain that did not happen in the real world, but its entertaining. Strange.


Lee glad its back and running. Cant tell you about the smoke unit, since I don't run the smoke unit. Sound is correct but if it rumble and clanking you want get an Alco sound chip.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

It's a good looking engine. I'm glad it's working out for you. I don't why I get the impression you're a Union Pacific kind of guy.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> Well, it's back. Scott Mann said it was only a TMCC re-set that needed to be done but I am glad I had it looked at anyway.
> 
> The prime mover sound has nice volume, but I don't like the sound at all. I have no idea if it is authentic or not, but its mostly whine and not a lot of rumble. Not my favorite diesel by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> It looks good and runs very well. One strange thing I noticed. At idle, it's smoke unit puffs!! It blows big puffs at about 1 second intervals out both stack. I can distinctly hear a fan cycling on and off. But when it is moving, it blows smoke continuously. I'm fairly certain that did not happen in the real world, but its entertaining. Strange.


That's the R2LC pulsing at idle, it's the default for conventional operation for the R2LC-C08 version. I don't know if there's a version that doesn't do that. You could replace the sound board in that one with one of the other sound boards on the ERR site, there's a link to each sound sample on the PURCHASE link and then RailSounds Products on the ERR site.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That's the R2LC pulsing at idle, it's the default for conventional operation for the R2LC-C08 version. I don't know if there's a version that doesn't do that. You could replace the sound board in that one with one of the other sound boards on the ERR site, there's a link to each sound sample on the PURCHASE link and then RailSounds Products on the ERR site.


Thank you. I looked at adding the ERR, and I was thinking of just replacing all the electronics with a set I have from a U30C Legacy, but I will just put it up on the shelf and remind myself not to get any more 3rd Rail locos. I've just got to triage all the "I could do that in a day or day" projects I'm considering. There are too many. This is one I'll just pass on. 

I've sort of soured on this SD7 anyway. Scott Mann did fix it but I am really liking the Legacy SD90 I got recently, and my U30C is fantastic as you know, having two of them. They both look as good and detailed as this SD7, sound much much much better, and run so much better in conventional - just night and day. Those will be what I run when I need to run a "big ugly UP diesel." 

I've reached the conclusion that 3rd Rail locos are really satisfactory only if you run them in TMCC and I'm just not going to go there again in order to run the few I have. My ToT didn't do that - it runs beautifully in conventional, but it is the only one of my 3rd Rail locos that does. Particularly given this SD7 has an ABS plastic body like Lionel and MTH use, and given how good recent Legacy and Premier diesels are, I think I'll stick with Lionel and MTH from now on.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, I know I've seen some R2LC versions that didn't pulse the smoke in conventional, but I tested a few from my parts box and they all did, so I'm not sure what version those were.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> FWIW, I know I've seen some R2LC versions that didn't pulse the smoke in conventional, but I tested a few from my parts box and they all did, so I'm not sure what version those were.


Yes, there must be some that do and some that don't, because I see it just in the TMCCs I have. My 3rd Rail ToT diesel does not. It also responds much more smoothly and linearly to lower voltage (below 11 volts) throttle actions in conventional that any of the other 3rd Rail locos I have. Scott Mann must use different electronics in different locos. 

I've never seen this pulsing before. Interesting, but it a way, fairly half-a**, too. Not what I expected or really want.

I was running my Lionel UP U30C and Genset Switcher just now. What wonderful, close-to-perfect locos they are (okay, the windows fall out of the Genset, but it's easy to make new ones that glue right in). Both are just a delight. I've been spoiled I guess.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> I've never seen this pulsing before. Interesting, but it a way, fairly half-a**, too. Not what I expected or really want.
> 
> I was running my Lionel UP U30C and Genset Switcher just now. What wonderful, close-to-perfect locos they are (okay, the windows fall out of the Genset, but it's easy to make new ones that glue right in). Both are just a delight. I've been spoiled I guess.



Keep in mind, you're comparing old technology to new also. Lionel only sells Legacy boards when their own locomotives are equipped, hence 3rd rail is using older style TMCC boards from ERR. Your 3rd Rail locomotive would probably improve in running performance if it too was equipped with Legacy. Same goes for sounds (though the board in your engine does sound like every EMD engine from that era I've ever heard).


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

santafe158 said:


> Keep in mind, you're comparing old technology to new also. Lionel only sells Legacy boards when their own locomotives are equipped, hence 3rd rail is using older style TMCC boards from ERR. Your 3rd Rail locomotive would probably improve in running performance if it too was equipped with Legacy. Same goes for sounds (though the board in your engine does sound like every EMD engine from that era I've ever heard).


I guess that is my point. I paid $669 plus shipping for this SD7, an ABS-bodied model loco that struck me as having detail, paint, etc., as good but as but no better than Lionel's Legacy diesels, but it had out of date electronics - the pulsing smoke is only part of it, the sound, frankly, sucks. Meanwhile I paid $600 recently for a Legacy SD90MAC, which is bigger, smoother running, with better sound and Legacy. It's just a better value.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> I guess that is my point. I paid $669 plus shipping for this SD7, an ABS-bodied model loco that struck me as having detail, paint, etc., as good but as but no better than Lionel's Legacy diesels, but it had out of date electronics - the pulsing smoke is only part of it, the sound, frankly, sucks. Meanwhile I paid $600 recently for a Legacy SD90MAC, which is bigger, smoother running, with better sound and Legacy. It's just a better value.



That's probably the main reason I don't own any 3rd Rail locomotives 

As I mentioned, the sound set in your SD7 sounds prototypical, but it's missing the full bass in the sound that the Legacy engines have, so I understand your thoughts there.

They make beautiful steam models, but for the price I can find a good enough Lionel diecast Legacy model that I won't be afraid to touch. Until they make a model of one of the real engines I work on, I'll stick to the normal brands.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Lee 

It to bad your not happy with the SD9. The big sell point was the fact that the engines would be road specific as in prototypically correct. When you compare the only other option is the MTH SD9, The third rail engines are way ahead. Yes there have been issues but all are fixable. Yes I would prefer the Legacy Electronics, but that was Lionel's choice for it to not be available at ERR.. Another thing to think about was the issues were with the engines equipped with the ERR. PS3 I think would have been a better choice. 

As for electronics. The SD9/7s are a prime candidate for conversion to PS3 and has been done by a member at the other site with success. Enough that most likely do mine as was reported to have better low speed performance and are strong pullers. You also have to remember that the vast majority of engines sold were 2R.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Good point on PS/3, that would allow you to select the sound and offer the performance you desire. Since I only run command, the low speed performance of ERR stuff has been just dandy, but I don't know if it suffers running conventional vs. PS/3.


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## suzukovich (Sep 24, 2015)

Only issue was there was not any room for the smoke unit.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

The current versions of ERR Railsounds are capable of as much bass as legacy puts out. The boards are nearly identical. If the sounds seems weak I would be looking at the speaker. Most small and medium diesels just don't have room for a 40mm speaker let alone a 50mm full size Fatboy.
Not all Lionel legacy engines have better sound than 3rd Rail. The SP GS4s from 3rd Rail according to the experts have the correct whistle while Lionel's does not. The 3rd Rail does not lack for deep chuff either. 

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

suzukovich said:


> Only issue was there was not any room for the smoke unit.


You'd be surprised, I suspect I could fit the board in if the smoke unit is in there.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

I buy 3rd Rail locomotives strictly for the detail. I know going in that the smoke units are no where near MTH or Lionel. I usually remove them.

I know the electronics are not as good as Legacy, but glad they are ERR TMCC because if it was PS2 or 3.... I would NOT buy any. My 3rd Rail diesels are the smoothest and quietest of all my diesels of any brand. The single horizontal motor makes a huge difference. 

The speakers 3rd Rail uses leave a lot to be desired, and I usually replace them with something with a lot more bass and an enclosure when there's room. My GS4 sounds awesome with an enclosed 50mm Fat Boy, and yes it does have the correct whistle.


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## JimL (Aug 16, 2015)

Laidoffsick said:


> ..... My 3rd Rail diesels are the smoothest and quietest of all my diesels of any brand. The single horizontal motor makes a huge difference.
> 
> .... The speakers 3rd Rail uses leave a lot to be desired, and I usually replace them with .....


Do you own an Atlas single motor switcher? If so, how do they compare .... very slow speed performance? If I buy one, it would be 2-rail with DCC, but I was wondering if the mechanical drive train itself worked as well at the Atlas.?

Did you look to see if there was room in your SD7/9 to put a better speaker in?

Thanks
Jim


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

JimL said:


> Do you own an Atlas single motor switcher? If so, how do they compare .... very slow speed performance? If I buy one, it would be 2-rail with DCC, but I was wondering if the mechanical drive train itself worked as well at the Atlas.?
> 
> Did you look to see if there was room in your SD7/9 to put a better speaker in?
> 
> ...


Yes, there is, if you push and shove and move things around - I was just leaving it on the shelf and so I figured I had little to lose by breaking it while trying. I tried twice and reloated some stuff inside, too - so no warranty if that ever comes up (it won't). I had five various size and type speakers from I-don't-remember-what I've taken apart in my spare parts/junk box. One was round and by trimming the container meant to fit around it I was able to fit it in. It was maybe 1/8 inch larger, which is a substantial (maybe 15% difference in surface area at these sizes). No real difference in sound. Then, I put the largest that would fit in, just the speaker, no enclosure, an oval maybe 2 inches long. It barely fit with no room for an enclosure: I figured the loco body might work as a resonance enclosure. It is maybe 35% increase in speaker area I'd guess, and does perform better I guess. Sound is better, but still weak. I don't think its the speaker along. Back on the shelf it went.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

JimL said:


> Do you own an Atlas single motor switcher? If so, how do they compare .... very slow speed performance? If I buy one, it would be 2-rail with DCC, but I was wondering if the mechanical drive train itself worked as well at the Atlas.?
> 
> Did you look to see if there was room in your SD7/9 to put a better speaker in?
> 
> ...


I had an Atlas switcher and it ran fine. Very slow and smooth. I sold it because the paint scheme was to modern for me (Blue &yellow) and I didn't feel like stripping it down and repainting it to a Zebra. I only bought it because it was a good price used. 

I haven't had any issues with the mechanical drives on my 3rd Rail diesels. Smooth and quiet.

I think the sounds are fine on the SD7/9's. Sure we could use some more bass with a better speaker...but SD's sound boring anyway. It's not like an Alco or a GE.

I do have to take one of my SD7s apart as I think the antenna came loose. I lose control of it unless I wave my hand over the top of it while it's moving. Not a big deal because I want to re-wire the number board lights into the on/off ability with the headlights. When running the engine in reverse (in a 2 unit consist) I want the number board lights out, just like the headlights in reverse. That's how they should be anyway. 

I've asked Scott to change that in previous diesels already. For some reason the factory likes to wire the number boards and class lights to the center roller, so they are always on. STOP doing that!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm surprised the number boards would be directional, are you sure about that? I understand that markers and/or class lights may be lit directionally.


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## Laidoffsick (Sep 20, 2015)

They are not really directional, but in a multi unit consist, the number boards are only lit on the lead locomotive. So whether the rear engines are going forward or backwards, the number boards should not be lit. Without having DCC or Legacy control to turn the number boards off separately, the easiest way FOR ME to turn them off is wire them to the front headlights.

In an ABBA consist the rear A unit is going backwards. So the front headlight is off, and now the number boards are off as well being the rear A unit is running in reverse. I pair my SD7s to run either direction, so the trailing engine is in reverse...no headlights, no number boards.

So no, they are not actually directional, but at least that way I can have them on for the lead locomotive going forward only. If the engine has rear number boards, I just unhook them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, in an MU I see your point. I was thinking of things like a GP7 or GP9, I see them with all the number boards lit.


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