# Lionel "Standard O" Trains...



## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

I came across this section of trains for the first time today while browsing eBay... Is this Lionel's version of MTH Premier cars? Like are these true 1:48 scale trains? I can not find too much information on them


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Well I hope so because my trigger finger just bought this... Not bad since it MSRP's for $65, plus it is all die cast


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## Lownen (Mar 28, 2008)

Boston&Maine;

It is my understanding that "Standard O" simply means not compatible with O27. IOW, the wheel flanges are too high for O27 compatible track. The flanges on your new hopper's wheels certainly look "Standard O" to me.

One of the problems I've encountered with your scale of choice is, that hardly anyone I know seems to be really clear on the difference between "Standard O" and O27. I have a friend who no longer has model railroad trains, and has no room for any. But among his fondest memories are his Marx trains of his childhood. When I asked what gauge they were he replied "standard gauge" when I learned that they were Marx I told him that Marx never madevstandard gauge, and "standard gauge" hadn't been made since before WWII. He had been given Standard O in the days when O27 was still being made by both Lionel and Marx, and the "standard" stuck with him as being more significant than the O. Ironically, he's not the only person I've met who thinks that "O" is "Standard" and all other scales are exotic and less popular.

I know that O27 trains will run on Standard O track, but not vice versa. According to Wikipedia you can make O27 track work with standard O track by putting shims underneath it, but that doesn't sound right to me because the diameter of the rail tubes is different. And they don't say whether or not you can run Standard O trains on the resulting layout. If you can I'd have to believe you'd have the flanges bumping over the ties.

Ironically, we have a similar problem today in N scale. Many clubs are going with Atlas Code 55 track. But Micro-Trains Line standard wheels (called "pizza cutters") have flanges that are too high for it. If you run MTL wheels on Atlas Code 55 you get a bumpy ride.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Yea, the model train manufacurers really need to make an industry standard (no pun intended )... I came across this picture when looking up "Standard O," and although I knew there were major differences within O scale, this picture really was a jaw dropper for me, LOL...


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## nikoli (Apr 14, 2008)

It's been my understanding that the difference between "O" and "O-27" is the height of the center power rail. If you hold a section of "O" and "O-27" track side by side, the "O-27" is quite a bit shorter in height. Of course, there is also the radius of the curves as well. I'm not really sure if there is a standard "O" curve diameter out there. Marx made "O-27" (27" diameter curves) and "O-34" (34" diameter curves). I know that Lionel has 31", 42", and something like 72" curves as well. I'm not sure of any Lionel details since I have been primarily researching Marx for collection. Just my 2-cents.


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## Lownen (Mar 28, 2008)

Welcome to Model Train Forums, nikoli. Thanks for speaking up!

Here's a couple pages on O scale standards:

http://www.lionel.com/GettingStarted/Guides/AboutGuage.cfm

http://modeltrains.about.com/od/oscale/tp/About_O_Scale.htm

Boston&Maine;

Those boxcars look to be representative of different eras, oldest at the top to most modern at the bottom.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Lownen said:


> Those boxcars look to be representative of different eras, oldest at the top to most modern at the bottom.


I know, but they are all O gauge, and you can still buy the last two sizes...

--------------------

In looking at the Lionel catalog, apparently they now call O-27 stuff "Traditional O" while they call O stuff "Standard O"... We will have to find out if they relate to MTH's Railking line and Premier line sizes... I think they do because the hopper I bought is 9.5" long and the MTH Premier version is also 9.5" long... I will have to wait and compare them side by side when I get this car in though...

I know that MTH says that the Railking line is the size of traditional O scale cars but their Premier line is true 1:48 O scale... LOL, you probably do not even want to know that MTH also makes a Railking Scale line











> *RailKing "traditionally sized"* O Gauge trains are M.T.H.'s best-selling and least expensive product line. Before World War II, train hobbyists were less concerned with authenticity than are many current collectors, so the model trains were not generally made to scale. Rather, they were smaller than a proper O Scale model would be, and many model railroaders became accustomed to this size train. These cars and engines, represented today by the M.T.H. RailKing line, run on the same O gauge (width) track as O scale models, but because they are shorter, they can make tighter curves. Most RailKing models can maneuver a circle with a 31-inch diameter, and some can operate on curves even smaller than that. This is a real advantage for model train enthusiasts who prefer to keep their layouts small.
> 
> *M.T.H. Premier Line *trains are the gold standard in O Gauge model railroading. These models feature scale proportions, realistic detail, and solid construction that provides smooth, powerful performance. No other O Gauge manufacturer approaches this level of accuracy and overall quality. One of the Premier locomotives' and cars' most impressive features is the authentic detail in the *1:48 scale products*. Each item features a precisely designed body and a crisp, detailed paint scheme modeled closely on the prototype. The engines boast details like stainless steel grill details, spinning roof fans, operating lights, operating metal couplers, and variable smoke output. And while the authenticity of detail is designed to please the most discriminating model railroader, the locomotives are designed to run on the 3-rail track that most O Gauge railroaders prefer.


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## sptrains.com (Mar 18, 2008)

I actually have every Model Railroader from 1973 to about 2004 and was reading an article from the eighties about Proto 48 scale, and a push to having O guage trains actually in scale. At the time there was one company making wheelsets that had the proper flange sizes for the track. I'm glad HO doesn't have all of the subsets, although I just learned about HOm vs HOe last week.


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## Lownen (Mar 28, 2008)

Josh;

HOm and HOe are narrow gauge variants. And those are the European standards. The NMRA has its own American narrow gauge standards.

I think I linked this page before, but just in case:

http://modeltrains.about.com/od/otherscales/tp/Narrow_Gauges.htm


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

What a beautiful car this is! 

This is the first time I have ever seen trucks with brake shoes on them... IIRC, this puts my MTH Premier cars to shame... I will have to see for sure though when I go and get them out of storage this Saturday...

I am going to take pictures of all of my cars... Which do you think looks better, with flash or without? It seems like a medium between the two would be best, like a duller flash, but of course I can not choose that 
Look at me!


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## Lownen (Mar 28, 2008)

Boston & Maine;

Get yourself two or three photo floods. They make really cheap ones that you can clip on the back of a chair. Point them at the ceiling over your subject to diffuse the light. Then shoot without the flash.


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## sptrains.com (Mar 18, 2008)

The picture without the flash is better, but you'll need to use a tripod to compensate for the longer exposure time. If you do use a flash, take and index card, and put it in front of the flash at a 45 degree angle to bounce the light off the ceiling and illuminate the model.


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## ntrainlover (Nov 19, 2007)

I think with flash is best


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Well, I am happy to say that this car is the exact same size of my other 2-bay coal cars, so "Standard O" must be 1:48 scale... This Lionel hopper is much more detailed though, shame on MTH, they really need to pick it up


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

Here is a quick comparison shot I took, just so everyone can see the similarities :thumbsup:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

"I came across this picture when looking up "Standard O," " by B&M

I'm more familiar with the first two cars. The top looks like an American Flyer S scale. The second car,the Baby Ruth is O27 a very common one. Yes, the diference in size is obvious.


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