# DCC Help



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

I hope this is the right forum to put this in. If not then feel free to move to the right one.
I have been thinking about putting dcc on my layout when I build it that is.lol I am just confused about what to get first. I have looked at Transformers but what one( There seems to be 10 different types) Where to buy them?? Everywhere I go to look they have the chips and all kinds of new stuff for dcc but then they have about 4 or 5 transformer boxes some have dials some do not(seems to be add on's (Do I need them??) or not?? I have always had dc so...
Thanks for any information.


----------



## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Hi,

For running locos equipped with DCC decoders you need a DCC power system.

But they are going to be more expensive than the simple power packs available for a traditional DC layout.

Here is a nice basic starter system from a reputable vendor:

https://www.amazon.com/Rectifier-Co...id=1486912017&sr=1-1&keywords=express+squared

Here is another starter system from a vendor that has been around awhile. The brand, NCE, is popular but I found them to lag behind other vendors in keeping their systems "state of the art".

Companies in Europe seem to be producing more advance products but they have a different "look/feel" compared to US products.

This is a good system:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roco-Fleisc...023862?hash=item54361b7c76:g:oAwAAOSwQupXVwQu

In addition to the handheld controller (called multiMAUS or Multi-Mouse) you can use a tablet or a smartphone for "touch screen" control if that is something you like.


I use the more advance version of this system - the Z21 (black) and am very pleased with it.

Feel free to ask more questions.

Frederick


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Thanks for that info. I knew that it would be more money for the controllers and things but what do I need to start with?? If I go buy a dcc transformer will it work with the dcc equipped loco that I get from elsewhere?? Are they all universal?? Sorry for all the questions on this but I need to ask so I can get it right without spending money on stuff I do not need. I am thinking of a budget of around $400.00 to $500.00 for every thing. I have a n scale layout it is going to be on a 4x8 table so hopefully I do not need much more than that budget.
Thanks again.


----------



## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

There is no such thing as a DCC transformer.

They items I linked to are often referred to a "command stations" but you might see them called "DCC systems" or something along those lines.

Here is some info:

http://www.dccwiki.com/Command_stations

The technology behind DCC is well defined. If you stick with brand names you should find that practically all DCC decoder equipped locos will work with any command station.

I have command stations from Digitrax, NCE, Roco and Digikeijs.

I have used them all at one time or another and have had no problems with compatibility with various brands of locos including Athearn, Bachmann, Brawa, Broadway Limited, Con-Cor, Eureka, Hornby, Lilliput, MTH, Piko, Roco, Trix and others.


What do you need to spend your money on?

- Track and Turnouts
- Locos and Cars
- Command Station

Do you have anything already or are you starting from zero?


Frederick


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

My suggestion is Digitrax's Zephyr starter set.It will do everything you need while many bottom priced sets won't.It can program and/or read back decoders,is upgradable at will through two loconet ports (for additional throttles,wireles device or else)and also allows connecting up to two DC controllers as additional throttles.Its memory is limited to twenty locos at any given time but should be more than enough for a 4 X 8 layout.


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Thank you for directing me to that page!! I was over thinking the process of what they do. Yes the Transformer part comes from my use of just dc(Old style) The budget part was just for the "Setup" of the dcc system and maybe 1 or 2 dcc equipped locos. Every thing else is a other budget. Now to do some more reading up on the dccwiki page.

Thank you very much!! :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

bewhole said:


> Thank you for directing me to that page!! I was over thinking the process of what they do. Yes the Transformer part comes from my use of just dc(Old style) The budget part was just for the "Setup" of the dcc system and maybe 1 or 2 dcc equipped locos. Every thing else is a other budget. Now to do some more reading up on the dccwiki page.
> 
> Thank you very much!! :smilie_daumenpos:


Always glad to help if I can.

Don't be afraid to ask questions - remember - there are no "dumb questions".

Dumb answers maybe  but dumb questions - no.

Frederick


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Have a read of this bewhole, might just make things a bit clearer: https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/...to-dcc-and-overview-of-model-railway-control/
BJs suggestion of a Zephr by Digitrax is good but their manual is spoiled by a a lot of techno babble. For my money the simplest and best starter system is the NCE PowerCab, easy to understand. Try to look at a the systems being operated on YouTube.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Good advice so far. I personally use MRC systems and love them. The one fcwilt linked to above is their older intro system, though. Their current model is the Prodigy Express Squared. They also sell a Prodigy Explorer, but thst is not a full-featured system.

You won't go wrong with offerings from Digitrax, MRC, or NCE. If you can compare all three, that's the best way to choose. I caution against Bachmann's Dynamis system. Although pretty good (and wireless) out of the box, it has some significant limitations, and any kind of expansion, even adding a throttle or another IR receiver, requires about a $500 upgrade even before you purchase the devices you want to add.


----------



## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> The one fcwilt linked to above is their older intro system, though. Their current model is the Prodigy Express Squared.


Thanks for the info.

Is the link now pointing to the newer system?

Frederick


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You've got a lot of good information in the posts from
our guys.

Here is some information about DCC that may have fallen through
the cracks.

First the National model Railroad Assn. has set standards
that all those who make DCC equipment abide by. That
means for the most part you can use anybody's DCC loco with anybodys decoder with any DCC system. So you can check
the features and prices of the various systems and buy
based on what you like and can afford.

Some basics:

You have 2 wires from the Controller to the track.
Large layouts may connect these to several
different points for even power distribution.

The DCC track is always 'hot' with 12 to 14 volts
modified AC. The decoders in each loco receive
digital signals from the controller through the track.
The decoders rectify the current and determine the
voltage (speed) of the motor. The commands to
the decoder also determine forward or reverse,
lights on and off and the like.

Your controller has the capability of running 2 or
more trains at the same time. You can even
have one train going clockwise, the other counter
clockwise.

And a simple but important feature...your train
lights stay bright, they don't dim when you slow,
they don't go off when you stop.

Don


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Thanks for all the great information from everyone.:thumbsup: Now I have to pick a Brand name to use and I will not ask here(Don't want to open that can of worms here) :laugh: I guess I was looking in the wrong places before I tried here. 
Just one more question to make certain that I do not "Burn" out anything dcc will run on dc but dc will not run on dcc?? Or is it the other way around.

Thanks again everyone.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

DonR said:


> You've got a lot of good information in the posts from
> our guys.
> 
> Here is some information about DCC that may have fallen through
> ...


So it is not like the "Good old days" then. ie: You have our system so you HAVE to use our stuff at our cost and no one else can sell it. That is a advancement that I like.
Thanks.


----------



## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

bewhole said:


> Now I have to pick a Brand name to use and I will not ask here(Don't want to open that can of worms here) :laugh:


No reason not to ask. 

Most folks have a system they like and would be glad to share their experiences.

I started with NCE PH-Pro 5 and liked it very much - especially the handheld throttle.

But then I decided to build a computer automated layout and that NCE unit lacked a feature that was needed to make the automation work to my satisfaction.

I switched to a Digitrax DCS100 because it had the needed feature but I never like the handheld throttle that came with it (DT402R) - versatile to be sure - but just didn't like it.

I am now using a Roco Z21 with multiMAUS handheld throttle. The one I have now is the hardwired handheld but I am waiting on the new WiFi version. 
These handhelds suit me fine but that is just me - buttons for the things I do all the time and a menu system for the little used functions. 
I also have the option of using a smartphone or a tablet if I want the "touch screen" experience as Roco has a throttle application for that purpose.

I've never owned one of the MRC units but I like the look of the handheld throttle.

One of the most advanced and cost effective command stations comes from a small company called Digikeijs.

http://www.digikeijs.com/

This nifty unit supports a variety of control buses and as such can use throttles from other manufactures. I have tested it with Digitrax and Roco throttles but there are others.

The versatility of this command station comes with a bit of a learning curve.

Frederick


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

bewhole said:


> Thanks for all the great information from everyone.:thumbsup: Now I have to pick a Brand name to use and I will not ask here(Don't want to open that can of worms here) :laugh: I guess I was looking in the wrong places before I tried here.
> Just one more question to make certain that I do not "Burn" out anything dcc will run on dc but dc will not run on dcc?? Or is it the other way around.
> 
> Thanks again everyone.:smilie_daumenpos:


Well, it's wading in muddy waters to respond to the question of
what will run on the OTHER track.

There are DCC systems that claim they can run DC locos.
They can, but you risk burning out the motor if the
loco sits idle for much time. DCC track is a form of AC.

There are DCC decoders that enable their locos to
run on DC tracks, but not all do.

It's not a very exact response to your question because
you have two very different technologies and they
just are not well matched.

While some of our experienced modelers successfully
run locos on the OTHER power, many of us feel it
is best to run DC locos on DC tracks and
DCC locos on DCC tracks.

Don


----------



## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Don has replied to the question of DC locos on DCC and DCC locos on DC.

I would add myself to the list of those folks who say "just don't do it".

Frederick


----------



## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Well, with the Digitrax, you can run a DC locomotive, using number 0 for the loco. that said, it is not a good idea and the square wave AC power is not good for the DC motor. That is why they "sing." It is the constant rapid back and forth motion in the motor that can melt the windings. The DCC decoder converts the AC to DC for the motion and lights on the locomotive.


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Ok,Ok,Ok I will not try to run the locos I have on dcc. :laugh: When I buy the dcc system I will get a dcc equipped one to go with it. I think you could put dcc on the ones I have now but I don't know how so I will not try right now. So look for them in the for sale forum soon.
Thanks again.
ps: I like to see trains going around the layout with Puffing smoke but that would not be the right kind of smoke. :laugh:


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

It's actually not difficult to install a DCC decoder in
most locos made in the last 15 or so years. Some
are 'DCC ready' and you simply plug in the decoder.

The remainder would require soldering of several
color coded wires but the decoder instructions are very clear
and easy to follow. You can do the chore in an hour or so.

Decoders now are selling for less than 20.00 so it's
a wise thing to upgrade, maybe one now, another
in a month or so, until you get 'em all in the 21st
Century.

Don


----------



## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

If you are a sociable person who is likely to seek out others in the hobby locally, or if there's a club you might join, it is sometimes worth considering adopting the DCC system they have. If many use it, it must be reliable and utile. However, there is no need whatsoever to adopt the system anyone else uses.

The fact is that there are many dozens of systems spread across NCE, MRC, Digitrax, Zimo, Lenz, Rocco, CVP, and Bachmann, to name the most popular suppliers, that are fully interchangeable and that WORK...right out of the box. They are all reliable, they'll all run decoders, even the Mike's Train House DCS (a non-DCC, but digital, train control system that is proprietary to Mike's Train House (MTH) decoders. 

Where they differ is in features. And power consumption and power output to the rails. Please take some time to read the various sites and learn what they offer. Then figure out if you'll need Features X, Y, and Z. Or if you'll want them possibly before a year or two have passed. Always consider contingencies...we all tend to expand a bit as we age in the hobby, and I don't mean our waistlines. I mean the stuff we purchase and want to run, often at the same time. Leave some room for growth or you'll be selling stuff on eBay very soon.


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Just to let everyone know that with all the help and information I have had the confidence to go and get a:
NCE - Power Cab Starter Set - 25
And a:
Bachmann - Diesel EMD GP7 - DCC Equipped -- Union Pacific #116 

Later on if I still have some dc locos left I will look into installing the decoders. I am not much on soldering tho.
Thanks again. :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

I think you chose well. When I switched from DC to DCC I did a lot of research and decided on the NCE Power cab because it had the most straight forward and well laid out manual. It also steps you through programming a locomotive with simple instructions. You do not have to have a grasp of CVs to use it.

The Bachmann DCC locomotives are a good value and run well. I have 5 of them, 1 diesel with sound, 1 steamer with sound, and 3 diesels with no sound. I am pleased with them all. They run and pull well.


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Good for you bewhole. You'll enjoy using the PowerCab and like DavefromMD said you don't need to understand everything about CVs. Unfortunately I don't have one any more due to a household power fault but I really miss it.

Don't shy away from the soldering it's not difficult to get used to it.

Have fun.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I join Cycleops to encourage you to do some
soldering work. It is quite easy but it helps if
you do a few practice joints.

There are many times you'll need to solder
around a train layout.

If you don't have one, get a small 25 watt or
so iron. Get Resin core solder, small diameter,
and a tin of resin paste flux. Tin the iron tip
with a dab of flux and melt the solder on it.

To solder a wire joint, strip the insulation, tin
the wires by dipping in the flux, then take a
dab of solder on the tip of the iron and
coat the wire. Twist them together, then again
take a dab of solder on the iron tip to the
joint, the solder will quickly adhere to the
tinned wires and you have done it. Cliff off
any excess wire ends.

Don


----------

