# MTH Uncatalogued Announcements



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I’ve been getting quite a few special announcements from MTH lately for uncatalogued items available at only one exclusive dealer. Seems like I’ve been getting about one every week. I usually dismiss them, but I thought I would pass the latest one on (a Southern Switch Tower at the Train Loft) in case there are some Southern fans here.

https://mthtrains.com/30-90427


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I just got the same email. It contained a link to their new Catalog.
Looks like they are putting it right in Lionel's face with their Premier SP GS-4s at a $1200 list.

https://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/catalog_files/2020_v_1/index.html

Basically every version Lionel is doing minus the fantasy schemes.
How much is whistle steam worth.
Then there are the N&W Js.

Pete


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

It does seem that a few of MTH & Lionel larger dealers have been hitting the uncataloged band wagon. Pats Trains, Mr Muffin, Charlie at Nassau to name a few seem to be doing alright with the exclusive product.

Bill


----------



## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Choices certainly confront train buyers this season and a significant difference in price with a lot fewer QC worries.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Nicholas Smith has also had a few specials lately. Even Holly Beach (a smallish shop) has had some PRSL stuff made by MTH.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

And another one. An NYC RS3 exclusively at JR Junction.

https://jrjunction.com/product/30-20689-1-nyc-rs-3-8223/


----------



## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

I guess I’ll have to resubmit my email address. I use to get these announcements and they’ve seemed to stop coming.


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lehigh74 said:


> And another one. An NYC RS3 exclusively at JR Junction.
> 
> https://jrjunction.com/product/30-20689-1-nyc-rs-3-8223/


These railking engines can’t be beat. Scale, PS3 short on some details but at that price point who cares


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Another thing missing from most RK diesels is smoke.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

People are saturated with trains. No doubt about it. And with the recent spat of Lionel's quality control issues where they can't even get color correctly, peeps are hesitant to pre-order.

These dealer exclusives with low production runs are attempts to entice peeps to roll the dice and pre-order again. I think that's the prime reason we're seeing so much of this type of offering these days.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Another thing missing from most RK diesels is smoke.


That was true at one time, but in the current catalog, about 70% of the RK diesels do have smoke. The RK RS-3s had smoke for a time, then not, but the current ones do have smoke.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting they brought back smoke in the RS-3, I have a PS/2 one that doesn't have smoke. Looking at the website, apparently the PS/3 ones started including smoke again.

I can't really complain, I bought four of the Reading MTH locomotives, three Premier and one RK, all for $500. All the Premier have smoke, just the RK lacks it.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I think smoke depends on the size of the engine. SW1s are still not big enough.

Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, since the RS-3 I have is scale sized, as I believe all the RK RS-3's are, I can't imagine it was the size.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Size may be a factor in whether or not a loco has smoke. Neither the tiny Premier 44 tonner or Railking SW1 have smoke.

But I think for the Railking line, the locos are built to a price point and if smoke would push it over the line, then it won’t have smoke. In the current Railking line, the MP15 (13” long) and E8 (14.5” long) don’t have it. The RS3 (14.5” long) and FM H10-44 (13” long) both have smoke.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lehigh74 said:


> Size may be a factor in whether or not a loco has smoke. Neither the tiny Premier 44 tonner or Railking SW1 have smoke.


Correct, there is a size where smoke is a real tight squeeze. However, talking about the RS-3, size isn't a factor, and the PS/3 ones all got smoke again.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

*George Bush HO Box Car*

This one looks pretty nice. If I was in HO, I would get one. Only available at TrainWorld.

https://mthtrains.com/85-74168


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

LIRR fans might be interested in this one.










Item No. 30-20684-1 Long Island MP15DC Diesel Engine w/Proto-Sound 3.0 (Cab No. 154)
Item No. 30-20685-1 Long Island MP15DC Diesel Engine w/Proto-Sound 3.0 (Cab No. 163)










Item No. 30-20686-1 Long Island MP15DC Diesel Engine w/Proto-Sound 3.0 (Cab No. 171)
Item No. 30-20687-1 Long Island MP15DC Diesel Engine w/Proto-Sound 3.0 (Cab No. 161)


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Lehigh74 said:


> LIRR fans might be interested in this one.
> 
> http://mthelectrictrains.activehost...&chash=ea96efc03b9a050d895110db8c4af057.4783&


Charlie sure has focused on the LIRR, the RR must be a good seller for him.

Bill


----------



## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I enjoy these emails from MTH. It certainly gives us plenty of choices. That's how I acquired all of my Black Bonnets.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Beth from Public Delivery Track announced a run of Premier wood sided open vestibule passenger cars. One set will be unlettered. 
I plan to get a few and lettered them either for NYC or New York Central and Hudson River to put behind my Moguls and Ten Wheelers.

Pete


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Here's one for Erie fans. That's one handsome loco if you ask me.

Item No. 20-21269-1 Erie Alco PA A Unit Diesel Engine w/Proto-Sound 3.0 (Cab No. 83)

Item No. 20-21270-1 Erie Alco PA A Unit Diesel Engine w/Proto-Sound 3.0 (Cab No. 859)


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Placed an order with Pats Trains for the MTH Turn of Century Mail Pouch reefer, a Pats Trains exclusive.

Bill


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Here’s one for our Canuck members.

Item No. 30-76841 British Columbia Dep. Center Flat Car w/Transformer Load

Item No. 30-76842 British Columbia Dep. Center Flat Car w/Transformer Load


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

If you are in to military trains, this will interest you. Scroll about half way down to see missile launchers and M60 tanks on either Railking or Premier flat cars. I pre-ordered one with tanks even though I wish it was an older version of the M60.
Item No. 20-95468 U.S. Army 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicles
Item No. 20-92279 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicles Set
Item No. 20-92280 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicles Set
Item No. 20-95469 U.S. Army 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M60 Tanks
Item No. 20-92281 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M60 Tanks Set
Item No. 20-92282 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M60 Tanks Set
Item No. 30-76844 U.S. Army Flat Car w/(1) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicle
Item No. 30-70119 U.S. Army 4-Car Flat Car w/M60 Tank Set
Item No. 30-76843 U.S. Army Flat Car w/(1) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicle
Item No. 30-70118 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(1) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicle Set


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

More uncataloged M60s and rocket launchers. This time in desert paint.

Item No. 20-95470 U.S. Army 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicles
Car Nos. 40230, 40234
Item No. 20-92283 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicles Set
Item No. 20-92284 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicles Set
Item No. 20-95471 U.S. Army 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M60 Tanks
Item No. 20-92285 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M60 Tanks Set
Item No. 20-92286 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(2) M60 Tanks Set
Item No. 30-76846 U.S. Army Flat Car w/(1) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicle
Item No. 30-70119 U.S. Army 4-Car Flat Car w/M60 Tank Set
Item No. 30-76845 U.S. Army Flat Car w/(1) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicle
Item No. 30-70120 U.S. Army 4-Car 60’ Flat Car w/(1) M270 Rocket Launcher Vehicle Set


----------



## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

your link gives private info 

i would use this one, it's a little harder but nothing private shows.



https://www.mthtrains.com/catalog/zz-uncataloged-items


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks. Didn't notice that. From now on I'll just give product numbers for the new uncataloged items..


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Here's one for Lee. But since it's Pat's trains, he probably already knows about it. The ES44 Black Bonnets look pretty good.
20-21513-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)
20-21514-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com) 
Get then from Pat's and they are less than the MTH retail.
Pat's Trains : MTH Premier - ES44AC Diesel Engine w/PS 3.0 (Hi-Rail) - Santa Fe (Black Bonnet - Patrick’s Trains) CAB# 6111


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

These special announcements are coming frequently lately. I’m thinking that since the MTH warehouse was sold, these uncatalogued cars are being sent direct to the dealer. The latest is some nice looking premier reefers available only at Stockyard express. There is only one product number in the email, but three different cars (ATSF REA, Land-O-Lakes, and Morton Salt) are in the announcement. While they look nice, I’m going to pass at $70 each.

20-94463 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

MTH is moving to another large building. Storing new arrivals won't be a problem. As for the Stockyard Express TOFC I think MTH trailers are the nicest out there but the cars they are on don't come close to Weaver flats let alone Lionel's. Lionel's TOFCs are into three figures now so the price on the MTH cars is not so bad considering. I have upgarded MTH cars to match Lionels but its a ton of work and I have no interest in doing any more.

Pete


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I’ve been getting these MTH special announcements what seems like almost every day for the last few weeks so I haven’t bothered to post them. A few days ago, I got a newsletter announcing boxcars with power meters. I think I have seen these once or twice before and thought they were pretty neat. I went ahead and ordered the one linked below even though the price is a bit steep. I suspect Nicholas Smith will knock off a few bucks. The Westinghouse car is the third in a series of four scheduled for issue five months after the company was supposed to close.

30-71062 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


----------



## TripleO (Apr 21, 2016)

There used to be a fellow on Ebay that sold these volt meter cars for about the same price, as I recall. I wonder if they're the same ones and he tied up with MTH.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I went digital for my Voltmeter car, it has a meter on each side.


----------



## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Most of these items are scheduled to be supplied by the new MTH Electric Trains Company being run, according to the announcement by MTH on May 18, by former employees. 

Also note, there is no warranty on items delivered after June 2021. The dealers will be offering the repair service or a refund. Yea right.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I can't wait to see how the "no warranty" plays out!


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

I think the dealer only warranty is a potential problem, as do many of you. Dealers come and go, compared with train companies. If I'm a dealer on the hook for warranty labor (parts are supposedly going to be provided at no cost), I'm going to have to do some careful calculations about margins and failure rates. MTH has some tried and true old technology, but stuff happens. I think this "hole" in the provided value could prove fatal for the remaining company (-ies).


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I'm not a NYC fan, but if I was, I don't think I would be able to resist this. One of the nicest looking GP-9s I've ever seen.
MTH Trains | MTH #20-21530-1 GP-9 Diesel Engine With Proto-Sound 3.0 - New York Central (Pacemaker - Trainworld) #5971


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

It is attractive Bob. Maybe if the Central had used that scheme back in the '40s Lionel may have been able to sell more NYC F3s than Santa Fe's. You can use it as a helper to Lionel's Pacemaker Mohawk.

Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's way better looking that some of the more drab NYC diesels.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I agree it is a nice looker, is it "real" or a fantasy scheme?


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

It's interesting looking but at $520 or so, it seems to be priced significantly above even MTH premier diesel prices. Or am I missing something? I would be tempted, but I'm not exactly short of trains .


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Then throw in shipping and tax, kaching.

Its a fantasy scheme Bryan, but then there are dozens of fantasy pieces of rolling stock out there. Only boxcars and a 1/2 dozen cabeese received the scheme And even most of those got repainted brown in the ’50s.

Pete


----------



## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

If anyone is interested in Atlas (old MTH) heavyweights, Mr. Muffins is taking preorders on 7-cars sets in 16 road names, all Pullman green with black roofs. He needs at 5 orders on each road name or they don't get made. Link here


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

beachhead2 said:


> If anyone is interested in Atlas (old MTH) heavyweights, Mr. Muffins is taking preorders on 7-cars sets in 16 road names, all Pullman green with black roofs. He needs at 5 orders on each road name or they don't get made. Link here


I just read the fine print on these. They will be decaled. Also no figures with the new Atlas cars. If you can paint and decal you can find many 7 cars sets for far less than half the asking price on these.

Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

$899 for a 7 car set of MTH 18" passenger cars? No thanks!  Even at inflated eBay prices right now you can do better than that!


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I saw Berwyn's had a similar offer, $109 per car. Burlington.


----------



## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

Feels like there is a "price bubble" going on right now. Ebay prices are crazy (as John mentions) and $900 of 7 cars? I'm sorry but my price level is $50-$75 for MTH Premier (higher for a rare or real special) and then down from there. Lionel - $20 per car. There are several caboose (cabeese) on Ebay right now for well over $100! Seems crazy right now. I don't know if they are actually selling or not - but can't believe they are.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

The cabooses are not selling, the expensive ones are in perpetual loops of non selling and they are all at dealers. I have sold 2 Union Pacific cabooses recently on ebay for $25 and $24.50. 

I like a good caboose to end my freight consists but I don't need 20 of them. I have 4 in Rock Island, 2-3 in Milwaukee Road and 1-2 in CB & Q. They tend to be rarely seen at shows and in the brick and mortar stores but that doesn't imply scarcity or cost. If you run modern era diesel, you don't use cabooses. They would look odd. 

I have plenty of passenger cars thank goodness. I have a lot of cost in my Burlington cars. I run streamlined, no Madison's. $109 for good detail is about right, prototype size. I get it 19 inches is not true 1:48 but it's close enough for me.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Just to put current prices in perspective. Lionel lists their new 18” heavyweights at 200 bucks per car, street price is about $175. My frame of reference is what I was paying 10-15 years ago with 30-50 bucks per car on the secondary market. 21” GGD cars were had at $120. Thankfully I have no more on my want list.

Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I bought most of my passenger cars for $50/ea or less, almost all are either Lionel 18" cars or MTH Premier cars. The one exception is some of my Strasburg woodside cars, I spent more for those. It's significant to note that I haven't even given Lionel's $200+ cars a look, those prices are ridiculous.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Lionel's passenger car prices are a joke these days -- especially considering they abandoned aluminum passenger car manufacturing a few years ago in favor of ABS construction that was supposed to be considerably LESS expensive. Funny how that never translated into less expensive consumer prices though.

GGD is the last of the importers to still offer aluminum passenger cars, and they're now pushing $300/car for an 8-car set, with add-on aluminum cars ranging from $300-$400 each. And if that's not high enough, Scott offers brass full-dome car add-ons for upwards of $700/each. Yikes... those prices left me in the dust a long time ago. But for folks with deep pockets, I'm glad Scott is still offering aluminum passenger cars for you. Lionel's O-Scale passenger offerings have been an absolute disaster ever since they tabled their aluminum offerings.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

When it was announced that Atlas had purchased the tooling for MTH premier passenger cars, I wondered how much more Atlas would charge than MTH. I guess I got my answer. But I still might go for it if they made a 2-car streamlined set in D&H colors.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> When it was announced that Atlas had purchased the tooling for MTH premier passenger cars, I wondered how much more Atlas would charge than MTH. I guess I got my answer. But I still might go for it if they made a 2-car streamlined set in D&H colors.


Atlas is another company that has largely left its O-Gauge customers (including me) in the dust with their prices. Let's see... $900 for 7 cars is roughly $130 per car. I never paid anything close to that for MTH Premier passenger cars. Usually they were $80-$90 MSRP, and dealers gave you their usual discounts. I guess those days are over.

As a point of clarification though... Atlas didn't get ALL of the MTH Premier passenger cars (yet). MTH still currently holds the tooling for the high-level passenger cars as well as the woodside passenger cars. Time will tell.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, the Strasburg woodside passenger cars were not cheap, but not that expensive! I got mine for $70/ea for four of them, and the other four I got a real deal on them, $40/ea. All of them had LED lighting and passengers, though I had to "fix" the LED lighting to kill the flicker.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

My passenger cars are a true blend. 
For Rock Island I have their "silver" ones, these are mostly the $600 Lionel 21" set of 4, sold as a pack. I think they are beautiful, but admittedly have never run them. To add to that, I purchased an MTH Premier one, and another 2 pack. But mostly Lionel, and I have $850 or so in what would run behind my E's. (I have 4 sets of R.I. E's)

I also have a pretty full "Golden State" Red and Silver set that Rock Island ran with Southern Pacific. Maybe $600 in these cars. 

For Burlington (CB & Q) I have 4 of the Atlas passenger cars, as Pete knows and others, these are the top of the line for authenticity and detail. To get the end of car Observation car I gulped hard and bought a 4 car set for $1200, selling off 2 of them that were duplicates. I then bought a Lionel 2 pack of 19" ? cars to add length, for $200. I have 2 MTH premier cars - the baggage car and a double dome observation (whatever the right term is for that car). 

For this 8 car consist I likely have $1400 in cars but it should look awesome behind my MTH Premier CB & Q E8's. Those too are new, never run PS 3.0. I also bought a "cheap" Williams E8 A-A from Caboose Stop. Obviously lacks the detail of the MTH Premier, but I thought they looked awesome so I bought them to tag team with the MTH E's. 

For Milwaukee Road I purchased the MTH Premier 5 car set with the cool Milwaukee Road Observation car from Caboose Stop in Cedar Rapids. I "forgot" I had this in my last MTH 2020 order. I could end up with 2 sets, I guess. I have supplemental Milwaukee Road passenger cars, totaling a 7-9 car consist. I have 2 "supplemental" cars - probably a baggage and mail car, I can't remember but it's all MTH. Probably $600 in these cars. 

Finally I have the Union Pacific MTH Premier set from about 2017, 5-6 cars, expensive as I remember, and a couple of individual ebay purchases of MTh Premier U.P. passenger cars. With my 3rd Rail E, and 2 Weaver E's I have $1100 in these, and will end up selling the Union Pacific's probably for $500 on ebay. 

I started out thinking I would not run passenger but all of the manufacturers - in my opinion - have stepped up from the "shadow" low detail era to really nice looking, lighted cars which I can't wait to run. I have several depots, it will be fun to create.


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

I have 7 of the Williams Crown Edition aluminum passenger cars in SP daylight colors. From eBay I bought the 5-car set and then the two car add-on set. Total price including tax and shipping ... ~$325 for all 7 cars. The Williams shipping package indicated they were made in Korea. And they're very similar to the Lionel cars of similar era (early '80s), possibly from the same mfg. While they don't have interiors, I considered them a bargain. I also bought the Williams F7 ABA (upgraded to QS1 control) for $220 and the Williams GS-4 for $180. All in for $725.

All the colors match, just not iin the pics due to different lighting.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have eight of the MTH 18" SP Daylight cars, and all eight of them cost me less than $400. I also have the K-Line GS-4 and the Lionel SP Daylight Legacy PA A-B-A for a choice of motive power. Now that I actually have a place to run them, some of these things are coming out of the closet!


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have eight of the MTH 18" SP Daylight cars, and all eight of them cost me less than $400. I also have the K-Line GS-4 and the Lionel SP Daylight Legacy PA A-B-A for a choice of motive power. Now that I actually have a place to run them, some of these things are coming out of the closet!


Didn't you have 4 of those cars up for sale? Or was it 21" cars?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I sold the 21" cars. I've standardized on 18" passenger cars, the 21" ones just don't look right on a smaller layout.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I sold the 21" cars. I've standardized on 18" passenger cars, the 21" ones just don't look right on a smaller layout.


I made the same move John. 18" passenger cars are my standard these days, and I even run a few trains with the smaller 15" cars every now and then. 21" passenger cars can really overpower all but basement empires and large club layouts.

The last of my 21" passenger trains to go on the selling block will be my Lionel Texas Special as well as 3rd Rail / GGD Santa Fe El Capitan and Great Northern Empire Builder as complete sets... although I might break up the Empire Builder since I have a few of the blue sky themed cars mixed in with the traditional green/orange/yellow heritage theme.

BTW, regarding the price point of $900 for the new Atlas heavyweight offerings from Mr. Muffin's Trains.... In all fairness to Steve Nelson, it's my understanding that the $900 price-point includes re-decorating of Atlas-O's "plain" Pullman green heavyweights for a dozen or so different liveries that Steve is offering, if he can get 5 pre-orders for any given roadname. While it's a premium price at $130 per car, Atlas-O's MTH heavyweight offerings come in at roughly $110 MSRP per car for the regular-line of offerings. And most dealers will offer a modest discount off that price-point.

So the $900 price-point includes a $30-$40 premium per car for Harry Hieke's work to customize a plain Pullman Green passenger car into a special-run livery -- still Pullman Green, but with a satin finish and decals so Harry can work his magic. For folks looking for an entirely different paint scheme on their special-run, I think Steve is talking a roughly $350-$400 premium per set over the $900.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't fault Steve, I just can't seeing paying that kind of money for what you're getting. Fortunately, I have more than enough stuff that I don't have to pay that kind of premium. FWIW, I have smaller passenger cars as well, my Polar Express set with the 12" cars, the RailKing Reading Crusader with 15" cars, the 16" Strasburg woodside cars, etc.


----------



## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

These daily announcements were kind of disappointing at first. Lately I've been seeing a lot of the wood sided refers and have to say they are really nicely done. The artwork detail is really very cool.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I don’t get these notices. But interesting to see MTH still active.


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Bryan Moran said:


> I don’t get these notices. But interesting to see MTH still active.


Need to sign up for their email updates.


----------



## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

The Long Island MP15s would be tempting. The real ones often powered commuter trains with a Alco FA on the other end, as a “power cab car”. The FAs in Long Island are available too.

I have two preorders from MTH, thru Mr Muffins and Public Delivery Track. Both EL early paint schemes on an RS and GP7. Curious to see if they ever come through on them…

Tom


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I’ve been seeing a number of special announcements for ALCO RS-1s. I have a few RS-3s, but no RS-1s. When I saw the PRR version, I ordered one from Nicholas Smith. Did a search for RS-1s, FJ 2021 “catalog” and came up with this which also has some RS-3s. They also have some of the RS-1 specials under the ZZ uncataloged items “catalog”.

General Search | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


----------



## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

The MTH RS-1 is really nice. Premier level for sure.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I have both MTH and Atlas RS-1s. Atlas has a slight nod in detail but their older ones are one of biggest PITA engines to work on, largely due to the old TAS boards in there. if they do another run the PS3 boards will make any needed repairs much easier. I guess it begs the question, will Atlas do more RS-1s if MTH still has their own molds and Atlas is working with MTH??

Pete


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

beachhead2 said:


> The MTH RS-1 is really nice. Premier level for sure.


The RS-1 and RS-3 are very nice, but they are Railking Scale, not premier.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Norton said:


> I have both MTH and Atlas RS-1s. Atlas has a slight nod in detail but their older ones are one of biggest PITA engines to work on, largely due to the old TAS boards in there. if they do another run the PS3 boards will make any needed repairs much easier. I guess it begs the question, will Atlas do more RS-1s if MTH still has their own molds and Atlas is working with MTH??
> 
> Pete


Pete
I have 2 of the RS1 from Atlas both Rock Island. Never have had a chance to run them yet.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> Pete
> I have 2 of the RS1 from Atlas both Rock Island. Never have had a chance to run them yet.


Atlas was using TAS boards up to around 2008-2009, then went to ERR. If yours were made after that you should have a good running engine that is much more reliable. TAS EOB has tendency to short the motherboard out.
As for MTH Railking vs Premier, they tend to blur to lines some. I have a NYC caboose that came in a Premier Box. A few years later they did the same caboose in a different paint scheme in a Railking box. Same exact construction and detail.

Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've replaced a number of smoked TAS EOB boards, not sure why they go up in smoke, but they do.  However, the Atlas narrow body diesels are still a PITA to work on regardless of the electronics.


----------



## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Lehigh74 said:


> The RS-1 and RS-3 are very nice, but they are Railking Scale, not premier.


Yeah, Bob, I was just saying that the RS-1 model from MTH, while a RailKing model, has Premier level detail on it. I think it's the best bargain MTH has in the RailKing line. The RS-3 is okay but in my experience it isn't anywhere near the level of the RS-1.


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I've replaced a number of smoked TAS EOB boards, not sure why they go up in smoke, but they do.  However, the Atlas narrow body diesels are still a PITA to work on regardless of the electronics.


Isn't it because the traces between the power input connector and the bridge rectifier are two small for the amount of current it draws and when they go up in smoke they short out to surrounding components? At least that's what I've seen as the number one cause but I've seen a few other areas that are problematic. 

I had a AtlasO RS1 which was a bear to get apart and the EOB in that thing was really crammed. Had to get the trucks off to lube the gear. Glad I don't have that engine anymore.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I thought the detail on the Atlas RS1 was pretty good in my road name so I bought a 2nd one. Now I kind of wish I had not.


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Bryan Moran said:


> I thought the detail on the Atlas RS1 was pretty good in my road name so I bought a 2nd one. Now I kind of wish I had not.


With ERR cruise that would be used today would fit nicely. If Atlas re-issued the RS1/3 with fixed pilots I’d be game.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> I thought the detail on the Atlas RS1 was pretty good in my road name so I bought a 2nd one. Now I kind of wish I had not.


Care for a third?
30-20931-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Yes. I’ll be getting one.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Plated ATSF R50B

Saw this in the regular newsletter, not a special announcement. But it caught my eye. I don’t think they have made an ATSF R50B with plated sides before and if you have been looking for one, now is your chance. My ATSF passenger cars are painted, but my PA1s are plated. I’m thinking about ordering this one.

20-94578 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> Plated ATSF R50B
> 
> Saw this in the regular newsletter, not a special announcement. But it caught my eye. I don’t think they have made an ATSF R50B with plated sides before and if you have been looking for one, now is your chance. My ATSF passenger cars are painted, but my PA1s are plated. I’m thinking about ordering this one.
> 
> 20-94578 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


Stockyard Express did a special order last year. It doesn’t match my Lionel streamliners but it is pretty spectacular. I guess if you have the newer MTH E and F units with the plated sides it would be a great addition or even if you didn’t. Fantasy scheme for sure but a stand out none the less.

Pete


----------



## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

That is one shiny car! The plating work looks amazing.

Tom


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Pete - I saw the Stockyard Express one. The description doesn't say its plated, but in 2019 when that one was delivered, they were also making plated ATSF passenger cars so it probably is.

Tom - The photos in the catalog and web site don't do the plated cars justice, They look fantastic in person (and in photos here). I went ahead and ordered mine from Nick Smith.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I will dig mine out and get a picture. I thought I had a pic but can’t find it now. I really like these R50s despite only the PRR had them. Easy way to make passenger train a bit longer.

B unit is a 2005 era Lionel TMCC F3.









Pete


----------



## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

That is a great looking car. The detail really stands out in that picture. What is the reefer to the left of it?

Tom


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Tom, thats another R50 in Hiawatha colors. They are doing that one again as well. I may be in for the B&O version this time.

Pete


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The MTH Special Announcements aren’t really al that special anymore. Seems like I get one almost every other day.

But the one I got this morning IS special…to me at least. I usually wouldn’t spend 65 bucks for a box car. I already have too many. But Lehigh Valley box cars in snowbird paint are hard for me to resist. And wood sides make it even harder. I don’t really know if the double sheathed box cars ever saw snowbird paint. The closest I’ve seen are 68535 (on line) in aqua and 75073 (at Strasburg) in red.

I pre-ordered two (one in each number) to get a better shipping to product ratio.

20-99346 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, they have a lot of paint jobs that masquerade as new products.  They might not come every day, but they come most days! Here's my index of the folder where all these land. Looks like one every day except for weekends.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

But the masquerading is what we NEED from Lionel and Atlas and do not get. In other words, how many box car styles were made, how many tank cars and so on? I am NO EXPERT like most on here, but let's see - 36' wood sided box car, 40', 53' Evans, 50', 60'. Pretty much make a mold or have the mold and you can make a 40' Box car or tank car. 

When we see Lionel, we wait in anticipation for their 1 of 2 catalogs a year. I use the "waiting in anticipation" approach as generalistic, some of us don't care, some of us do. But the point is, when we get the catalog, Lionel is offering perhaps the 50' in 4-6 road names, and that's all you get for one year. 

Here - it appears - with the MTH business model - they have many more road names or designs on what has pretty much not changed in 25 years - the mold. I don't know, but that sounds like a good business plan. 

Why have ONE catalog for a period of time offering 6 road names or brands of beer, when you can rip off several hundred molds, add trucks and couplers of a Premier level, and offer many varieties of names on the side.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, it must be working for MTH, at least temporarily.  I guess they're just not ringing my bell, I'm not really into having a sixty car train with sixty different road names or billboard ads on the cars.


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bryan Moran said:


> .... Why have ONE catalog for a period of time offering 6 road names or brands of beer, when you can rip off several hundred molds, add trucks and couplers of a Premier level, and offer many varieties of names on the side.


Perhaps the style of production dictates that. Higher volume production runs are optimized for a few, slight variations on exactly the same product for each production cycle. Smaller production runs can be optimized for more variation on the basic product platform. Two different approaches acknowledging your expected sales volume.


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

How long have the special so called runs been going on? I get the emails at work every day, and to date not one of them has interest me. Mostly due I have way to much stuff, secondly the price these things are going for.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

superwarp1 said:


> How long have the special so called runs been going on? I get the emails at work every day, and to date not one of them has interest me. Mostly due I have way to much stuff, secondly the price these things are going for.


I have way too much too and have limited future purchases to a specific goal. But the business model makes sense.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Millstonemike said:


> Perhaps the style of production dictates that. Higher volume production runs are optimized for a few, slight variations on exactly the same product for each production cycle. Smaller production runs can be optimized for more variation on the basic product platform. Two different approaches acknowledging your expected sales volume.


Absolutely. That is where I think those who wanted to take over MTH sat down, maybe with Mike, and spit balled how to make a business model with long term viability. I have no way of knowing for sure, I was not a fly on the wall. 

But they are going in a different direction at least with the rolling stock. If they did the usual then they offer nothing different from Lionel and Atlas - which purchased their molds. 

This is at the end of the day, a chance to work on toys, a childhood dream for most of us. Why not play a little and see if the business model works?


----------



## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

I've bought some of the custom run rolling stock. Yes it's pricer, but I'm buying the schemes that haven't been done in O before, so it's not like I can pick them up on the secondary market.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Time will tell what the new MTH company will really be like. I think for now the new owners of MTH are just keeping their retailers satisfied with the exclusive train shop releases and some limited company releases. Probably will be awhile before their true business model is developed and announced.

Bill


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

seayakbill said:


> Probably will be awhile before their true business model is developed and announced.


If there is a business model at all.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If there is a business model at all.


I would think so since they did lease another building but maybe you know something that we don't.

Bill


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, they leased a MUCH smaller building, so it won't be business as usual, that's for sure. For one thing, they have no repair capability anymore, I can't see how that works out long term.


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

"I can't see how that works out long term."

Speaking of long term it would be interesting to know the length of the lease. Five years would be a lot more reassuring than one or two years. It's possible that this new approach is sustainable for a few years, but it's hard to see how it's sustainable for the long run as "MTH" except as a drastically downsized and limited supplier of replacement parts, special runs and perhaps DCS/ZW4000s. That's the best case scenario it seems. Perhaps that's the plan, but time will tell.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One thing is for sure, it's not at all clear where MTH goes from here. With the company split into three entities, and each entity only having a handful (if that) of employees, I have some trouble imagining how sustainable it is.


----------



## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

As long as they can keep making custom runs, they do seem to be successful, then they will certainly stay in business. As far as the lease is concerned I always thought that commercial leases were typically longer than residential one especially if the owner need to make some investment in the property.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

TJSmith said:


> As long as they can keep making custom runs, they do seem to be successful, then they will certainly stay in business. As far as the lease is concerned I always thought that commercial leases were typically longer than residential one especially if the owner need to make some investment in the property.


Yep, I would guess they signed on the dotted line for at least 5 years.

Bill


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

And will they stick to modeling older stuff or venture into modern Intermodal or is that not their business model? We just don't know.


----------



## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> And will they stick to modeling older stuff or venture into modern Intermodal or is that not their business model? We just don't know.


I think that really depends on what tooling they have. A lot of the tooling has been sold so it’s difficult to know what the future for the new MTH is. At this point they seem to be successful in what they are doing.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Rounded Roof Box Cars.

Got this in today's MTH newsletter. I actually got it a few days ago from Pat's Trains. I'll probably order at least one of the B&O cars. Maybe an LV. I know B&O had these cars, but not sure if they ever saw the Sentinel paint scheme. I don't know if LV ever had rounded roof cars or if they were ever in the snowbird scheme.

2022 RailKing O Gauge Rounded Roof Box Cars Announced | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Since MTH does not publish a yearly catalog any longer isn't anything they release an uncataloged item.

The new terminology would be something such as MTH Corp releases or MTH dealer exclusive releases.

Bill


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Since MTH does not publish a yearly catalog any longer isn't anything they release an uncataloged item.
> 
> The new terminology would be something such as MTH Corp releases or MTH dealer exclusive releases.
> 
> Bill


Yep. When the thread was started, they still had a catalog, but now everything is uncatalogued. Looking at the last few emails, items that are produced exclusively for one or a few shops are called uncatalogued items and the email is titled "Special Announcement". Items that are available at any dealer are just "announced" on the emailed newsletter.


----------



## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

Just from a business perspective it seems like a good idea. Assumptions are that these "specials" are paid for by the dealers in the MTH network based on a small pre-determined qty run. When the production details are complete they go to manufacture and an announcement is made. All assumptions - but seems logical. You probably could ask one of the dealers how the whole process works - like Mr. Muffins. You may be able to even request a certain line and see what the interest is.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Desperado said:


> Just from a business perspective it seems like a good idea.


Only on the MTH side does it make sense. The dealer has to pay for the special run whether it sells or not!


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Only on the MTH side does it make sense. The dealer has to pay for the special run whether it sells or not!


Thats a interesting reply. Doesn't a dealer have to pay for everything he orders. Are Lionel or Atlas dealers allowed to return for a refund anything they ordered but did not sell.

Bill


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Once a dealer gets a special run, he pays for the full banana, there are no refunds. Lionel and Atlas have lots of standard product that dealers can order as needed, MTH is living off the _special run_ train.


----------



## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

I suppose that it true - but - like anything else with their business - the dealer would need to allow for the possibility that not 100% will sell. Also the dealer may use this as a marketing piece - to reach your more enthusiastic customers. For example - I have never bought a single thing from Mr. Muffins. But I see all the time that they have these special announcements. I also have noticed that they seem to have a pretty good reputation from the threads that reference them here. I am more inclined to check their website now.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The whole MTH business plan is designed to toss the liability over the wall to the dealers. Dealers are responsible for warranty as well, and the only recourse is to refund the customer's payment and then beat on MTH to get their money back.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Only on the MTH side does it make sense. The dealer has to pay for the special run whether it sells or not!


I think the dealers are doing OK with this too. After all, it’s the dealers that are asking MTH to make the special runs. If they weren’t making out on the deal, they wouldn’t ask for more specials.

And I think they will all sell. They are being made “in very limited quantities” and unless the dealer is asking for too much, they will go quickly. Now if the dealer is asking too much, they WILL sit on the shelf. Bussinger’s for example has a PS2 5V M10000 from 2001 (not a special run) still listed at full MSRP.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I appreciate GRJ's comments regarding MTH. I have purchased a couple of MTH special run diesels. I bought them from Berwyn's Trains in suburban Chicago. If you go their website, you can see other special run MTH items they have in stock. And that is the key - in stock! 

I am no expert on how model train stores run, but if it is like most retail stores, they buy at wholesale and their gross profit is the the margin between wholesale and retail. Therefore, from my perspective this is no different than MTH coming out with a catalog, or Lionel with BTO, and the retailer buying some of the catalog items for wholesale and putting them on shelves at retail. 

The only difference is the dealer has skin in the game in terms of wanting a specific road name. I find it interesting that Berwyn's still has several Rock Island steam locomotives, various box cars and cabooses for sale on their site, and ebay. I have watched their Rock Island caboose and box car for about 10 months, so this means they have bought them months ago at wholesale and still have them. 

MTH may (or may not) go out of business with this business model. I agree with GRJ - if I understand his point correctly - that MTH isn't out anything. This came to my attention with the other forum's Harry Hieke mess. I think Steve Nelson ended up buying quite a few of those diesels. 

Muffins has a Rock Island switcher from MTH pre sale I am mulling, but probably won't pull the trigger. Perhaps dealers are already figuring out the pain of having paid inventory that isn't moving, and perhaps Muffins has an end date for pre orders on MTH builds. And if there is no interest, they don't get made. 

It is kind of a grey area in terms of end-user knowledge of how things work, but Lionel and Atlas are not a lot different. 

At the end of the day, having MTH employees still making stuff is good, even if they are not doing anything new. If members aren't happy about MTH send them a message by not buying "special runs". But when they quietly shut down for good, we are down to just 2-3 real choices.


----------



## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

maybe john can ask Hennings trains to look into this
then the speculation would be put to rest.


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

All I know is due to Lionel’s failure to make a decent caboose for some of their engines. I have four MTH special run cabooses on order with two different dealers. Seems to me MTH is making out and the dealers as well.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I ordered a few of the round roof boxcars today from Nicholas Smith. Talking with the salesman, since MTH has a much smaller warehouse these days, they don’t keep much of anything in stock. So, whether it’s a custom run for one or a few dealers or just an uncatalogued run available through any dealer it’s basically BTDO (built to dealer order) now.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Lehigh74 said:


> I ordered a few of the round roof boxcars today from Nicholas Smith. Talking with the salesman, since MTH has a much smaller warehouse these days, they don’t keep much of anything in stock. So, whether it’s a custom run for one or a few dealers or just an uncatalogued run available through any dealer it’s basically BTDO (built to dealer order) now.


Seems like a good business model as long as the orders continue to flow in. Low overhead translates to higher profits.

Bill


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I’ve been seeing a lot of announcements for this woodsided caboose. It looks like a nice car, but much more than I care to spend for a caboose. I have been ignoring them because I haven’t seen one with one of the railroads I collect, but today I got an email announcement for a PRR cabin car. Tempting but still a lot of money for a caboose. I searched for images of PRR cabooses with numbers 982091 and 983058 (the two numbers being offered) and the actual cars with those numbers look nothing like the model.

Does anyone know if PRR actually had a caboose that looks something like this model? Might help me to decide to get it or not.


----------



## pennwest (Sep 21, 2015)

PRR never, ever had a cabin car (as cabooses were called on PRR) like that one. I think it is a NYC prototype, but I'm not an NYC guy.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks Bob. You may have saved me $85.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That does look like a NYC caboose.


----------



## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That does look like a NYC caboose.


It is. A 19000 series NYC caboose. The ones lettered for NYC or subsidiaries and Rutland sold out quickly. That’s because they were correct cabooses for the roads offered.

MTH made a wood PRR caboose but they choose to rubber stamp anything with the wrong road names.

Tom


----------

