# The California Wild Fire and Growth Exhibit



## bl665

Hey everyone !!! This is my first post on any model train forum ever ! Pretty interesting as I've been on many forums from aquariums to many different types of cars and for fun some hacking forums lol. 

Anyways I've always loved trains since my grandfather growing up had his own room with them. I even inherited a few items that i still have with me to this day. Life of course got a hold of me and I had to sweep it under the rug even though I didnt attempt this. but it happens sadly. Whenever I see trains it reminds me though. 

I'm getting to the point. promise. :laugh:

After a lot of life changing events I was able to empty my storage unit and ran across some HO scale and N scale items from 20 yrs ago. !! WTF !!! haha

I then realized that modeling was a lot more affordable today then when I was 10 lol.

I have boughten a lot of things. Back then I didnt have youtube or ebay or amazon either so this changed the game for me!

So as you can probably guess Im starting from scratch. I have a whole new set of ideas, tools, planning, and logic to put this together so I wanted to find somewhere I could share the journey.

Check it out. :thumbsup::thumbsup:






























































































The benchwork is actually not on the floor it is hanging from storage rafters that are in the garage. I have to do this because Im renting the house I live in and If i have to move well then I need a portable set up. hence N scale and Hence a hanging shelf !

I hope yall dig it Happy Friday !


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## Big Ed

Welcome to the site.

I see your planning a tunnel? Or a mountain?
Plan on some kind of access to get inside it, in case of a derailment.

Watch down by the bottom of the portal too where the curve is.
Leave enough room for the train, looks kind of close right now.


By all means get some more power strips too. 

Watch that you don't overload them.:smokin:


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## bl665

Big Ed said:


> Welcome to the site.
> 
> I see your planning a tunnel? Or a mountain?
> Plan on some kind of access to get inside it, in case of a derailment.
> 
> Watch down by the bottom of the portal too where the curve is.
> Leave enough room for the train, looks kind of close right now.
> 
> 
> By all means get some more power strips too.
> 
> Watch that you don't overload them.:smokin:




Thanks! Ya I do plan on building two tunnels/mountains. One per side of the board. 

I have thought about that ! So My idea was to build up half of the mountain and then have it split somewhere in the middle where I can sort of sling a "dress" over it for scenery but also be able to lift up and take it off to get to any derailed trains.

You are right it is very tight. but actually not to tight I've pined down some track as an example and ran a few trains by. The real test will be when I actually glue the track down lol . so I hope my planning is a success.

As far as power strips, Im not to worried about that. Im actually going to be running a DCC setup. It will be my first time ever installing one so Im bound to run into a few things. I have been doing a lot of research and reading though. I for sure will report here when I come up with some issues.

Like I said Im bound to run into them haha

Thanks for the response man ! And no smokin haha like I said Im renting this place lol


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## bl665

Some experimenting with scenery .... Thoughts ???


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## Big Ed

What are the red things in the scenery picture?
It sort of looks like you just tossed all the stuff on it in 3 seconds.


I like the trees, but the tobacco looking stuff needs some work?
Or is that wackie to-bacc-ieee?
Clean it off the tracks too. 

Did you paint the bottom? 
To me it is kind of dark, but that would be up to you.

For the mountain I would try to figure out a way to just lift the whole thing out. It looks like it is backed up to the wall in a spot where you can't see the back?

I made this for a corner, I can pick the whole thing up.
I started with scrap packing materials. Then stuffed it with balled up newspaper on the inside while I plaster clothed the out side. After it hardened I removed the newspaper.

Started like this, (THE ROCK) 
My Rock thread,
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5314
Take a look if you want, maybe you can pick up a few ideals.
















This is not the finished product, matter of fact it still is not finished as that gas meter was relocated outside now and the whole corner is torn down now, waiting for me to rebuild it.
The tunnel is not for the trains but for vehicles. The road goes nowhere.









This is an O scale table so my rock is fairly big, but I can pick it up to move it around. Your N scale mountain will be smaller.
I would try to find a way to make it portable back in there.


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## bl665

Big Ed said:


> What are the red things in the scenery picture?
> It sort of looks like you just tossed all the stuff on it in 3 seconds.
> 
> 
> I like the trees, but the tobacco looking stuff needs some work?
> Or is that wackie to-bacc-ieee?
> Clean it off the tracks too.
> 
> Did you paint the bottom?
> To me it is kind of dark, but that would be up to you.
> 
> For the mountain I would try to figure out a way to just lift the whole thing out. It looks like it is backed up to the wall in a spot where you can't see the back?
> 
> I made this for a corner, I can pick the whole thing up.
> I started with scrap packing materials. Then stuffed it with balled up newspaper on the inside while I plaster clothed the out side. After it hardened I removed the newspaper.
> 
> Started like this, (THE ROCK)
> My Rock thread,
> https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5314
> Take a look if you want, maybe you can pick up a few ideals.
> 
> View attachment 510064
> 
> View attachment 510060
> 
> 
> This is not the finished product, matter of fact it still is not finished as that gas meter was relocated outside now and the whole corner is torn down now, waiting for me to rebuild it.
> The tunnel is not for the trains but for vehicles. The road goes nowhere.
> 
> View attachment 510062
> 
> 
> This is an O scale table so my rock is fairly big, but I can pick it up to move it around. Your N scale mountain will be smaller.
> I would try to find a way to make it portable back in there.




The red things Im not to sure of what they are but I like the way they look so said hey throw a few of those in there ! Yes it is very Random. Thats what we are going for. We are doing a little bit of a fictional build aimed toward cal pines. The tabacky worked well for all the mulch that is up there. WE may. I just wanted to do this piece for a sample. I actually am going to mimic all the burnt trees up in northern cali too as it has a "wasteland" effect. so the ground is going to be dark.

Thats really neat how your project turned out! I bet it took some patience. Good coloring too


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## luvadj

Looks like a great start....me personally, I would ditch the berries, grind up the ground cover a bit finer :thumbsup:


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## bl665

Yes ! I know the berries are way to big. If I was thinking the same thing about the funny looking grass. I just have to have some self control and not smoke it after I grind it up. haha . 

Ive been working on it and plan on posting some updates tonight. I got started soldering some of the track together and most of the road bed has been put down. I do however look at a few of the switch track areas I've created and wonder how the wiring would be. I know I'm going to be running bus wires for DCC. I'll have to post pics on this but my layout is basically a few loops. I don't "believe" I have any reversing track but I could be wrong. Anywho maybe ill map out a drawing and share it.

See yall later !


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## bl665

Here is an update. Im just putting some pieces together and re gaining my soldering skills. I was looking at the tracks earlier and was curious if I would run into a problem with the way i have the switches laid out. I am running DCC and dont want to run into any issues.

I attached my track plan ... hahah . :smilie_daumenneg::smilie_daumenneg: I sort of came up with this track plan as i go. I know people will stink me out about it but its okay I just do things differently and this works for me. 

The track plan though has black sharpie for lower level and blue for higher level. If you look at the one part of the track that goes off the benchwork ... dont worry. Im in the process of building a giant truss bridge that is going to fill the gap there. 











here are the switch areas Im concerned with. This is the west (left on the trackplan) switch area




























This is the East (right of track plan) switch area












and fun pictures lol 



































































Yes I know the truck is a little big !! hahaha

Enjoy ! :smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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## CTValleyRR

Well, I definitely see track joints that aren't well aligned, several kinks, and at least two S curves that may cause trouble. If you don't want any issues, smooth out the S curves and make sure your joints are solid and kink free. You're asking for trouble if you leave it the way it is.


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## bl665

CTValleyRR said:


> Well, I definitely see track joints that aren't well aligned, several kinks, and at least two S curves that may cause trouble. If you don't want any issues, smooth out the S curves and make sure your joints are solid and kink free. You're asking for trouble if you leave it the way it is.



Ya they are there. Like I mentioned Im not planning track the traditional way. These tracks will be all smooth and soldered when I actually start laying the track. The few pieces i have put together have already had test runs and do phenomenal :thumbsup::thumbsup:

As for my question with the wiring. Im still hesitant on that but it looks like I should be ok.

Anyone know where to get DCC cabooses for N scale ?


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## bl665

Hey Forum. I have been scoping things out for my layout. This includes rebuilding part of it as well. I had to remove it for an inspection by the rental company and well. It fell apart in my hands :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg:

It is ok I had to do a little bit of surgery but got it back up and stable. Im glad it happened because honestly if I would have put all the track and scenery and then removed it I would have been sooooo pissed. Bench work is VERY important. and I thought I had it down. lol Thankfully much avoided.

So today I want to ask about a few things. I got that DCC wiring book and have been reading it. It is very handy and has a lot of knowledge you should know about basic DCC operation. 

The question I ran across myself was mentioned in the book but I need and want a few other opinions before I do all the math and put it together.

I have a Digitrax Zephyr command station. That is all I have I dont have any boosters or anything else. Im going to need to run 1 AR-1 reverser. On top of that I have automated remote atlas switches which I plan on grabbing power from another source. 

I also plan on having 4 bumper stops with the red LED lights connected to the rails. 

^^^^^^^^^^^ How do I find out the math I need to do to calculate how much power I will have left over to run trains ? 


This is the LED I want to use


https://www.amazon.com/100pcs-Ultra...qid=1572994350&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-6


I need to know also what type of resistor and or diode to save the led from the reversing circuit (so ive been told)


If anyone could take a look at this and give me there thoughts that would be fabulous. lol 

Thanks guys !


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## bl665

Here are some great pictures !!! Muahahaha 











Have you guys ever used tape like this to bank turns ? Ive heard it works well !



This is where it broke in half !!! 









:laugh: :laugh:































All in all it is 12' Long !! Pretty sturdy now ahaha


lets get back to my electrical question shall we !! :appl: :smilie_daumenpos:


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## bl665

Oh my has it been a long time !! I got very distracted with building check it out ! 















































I was also looking into one of these !!

They are very nice ! 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223857204753

Anyways hope all is well !! I'm finishing up all the wiring underneath the layout at the moment. I had no idea it would take so long! I've been at it for about a week and a half now. lol Few hours here and there of course after work. 

Cheers !


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## DonR

Looking good

I hope you didn't let one of those 'how to wire' books
cause you to do a lot of things that are really not
necessary. Many are written with large layouts in
mind and may be way more than any typical home
layout would need. All you really need are track
drops every 6 feet or so, plus the AR1 for your
reverse loop. It's output feeds the isolated section
and it is fed by your main track bus.

Your 2.5 amp Digitrax Zepher will have all the track power you
need to run 4,5 or even more trains at the same time.
N locos running at realistic speeds draw only .2 or .3
amps each. Those
bumper LEDs will be no load to be concerned about.
Unless you plan to run a big bunch of SOUND locos
there's no need to even think about a booster.

Don


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## bl665

Hey Don ! Thanks for the encouragement. 

I did !! I realized after testing a loco with the track that I wouldnt need as much wiring as every 3 ft. I noticed no voltage drop anywhere around the track when only one lead was connected haha.

I still did a bit extra though just to ensure everything is solid. There were a few places with the atlas turnouts that I had to put feeders on both sides of the switch. When a loco ran over them it would somehow lose connection. Feeders on both solved this. No need for me to put them on the points either. This was tested and is now solid.

The zephyr has a lot more power than I was expecting and after I did the math on the amperage of the lights and/or Locos I was pretty happy with the results. I will only be able to run so many trains on this layout anyways haha

I was thinking about having more lighting in the scenery. Possibly even hooking up some cabooses with lights as well which is something Ive always wanted to do !

Ill go ahead and post some more photos later this evening. Im looking forward to finally getting the wiring done. Cheers 

Hope yall are enjyoing your Friday !!


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## CTValleyRR

Track feeders every 3 feet is way overkill, no matter how big your layout. My son runs an entire 8x8 layout on a single pair of feeders. The right answer is somewhere in the middle. I have had great success with one pair every 8-10 feet.

Lighting isn't going to affect DCC. You can't run ordinary lighting from the DCC bus anyway. Get a separate power supply and wire them separately.


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## bl665

CTValleyRR said:


> Track feeders every 3 feet is way overkill, no matter how big your layout. My son runs an entire 8x8 layout on a single pair of feeders. The right answer is somewhere in the middle. I have had great success with one pair every 8-10 feet.
> 
> Lighting isn't going to affect DCC. You can't run ordinary lighting from the DCC bus anyway. Get a separate power supply and wire them separately.



I was finding that out while testing. It seems N scale especially with a smaller layout doesnt need to much. I went ahead and put feeders for most long pieces of track. I feel that will be enough. 

Ill look into that idea !! Here is another update



2 weeks of wiring completed.... 80% actually haha



solder is the best weapon anyone could use putting a layout together !





































These atlas remote switches require some wire if you want them all at your command center ! 

























Like My hair hahaha !!!


Ar-1



















It only clicks once which is what ive read is ok but the click is really loud ? Any other tips on adjusting this bad boy ?


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## bl665

New look at an almost full functioning layout ! I may need some more pulling power !!

Anyone know how to get to the other function pages with a Digitrax zephyr dcs50 ??

I think I've asked this before and someone said I needed either a booster or another DCC system. Which, as I'm Learning, seems to be a decent option.


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## Magic

I seriously doubt you need a booster or new system.
With just one engine running the DCS50 has more than enough power.
More feeders for sure, put some in places where the train slows.
Make sure you are using heavy enough wire for the bus and feeders.
Make sure your track and wheels are clean, doing track work etc. gets even new track dirty.

I ran 6 HO sound locos on my DCS51 with no problems, the 50 should run one N.
I put feeders every 6 feet or so and one between each pair of turnouts.
Worked good for me.

Magic


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## bl665

Magic said:


> I seriously doubt you need a booster or new system.
> With just one engine running the DCS50 has more than enough power.
> More feeders for sure, put some in places where the train slows.
> Make sure you are using heavy enough wire for the bus and feeders.
> Make sure your track and wheels are clean, doing track work etc. gets even new track dirty.
> 
> I ran 6 HO sound locos on my DCS51 with no problems, the 50 should run one N.
> I put feeders every 6 feet or so and one between each pair of turnouts.
> Worked good for me.
> 
> Magic



Wow 6 !! thats pretty incredible and goes to show me that you really dont need as much as everyone has been suggesting in books !! Very neat.

I was actually referring to the functions for the Locomotive, the ones beyond F8 on the throttle control. I found out I need to have another unit to pull that off ! Oh well. I'm fairly happy with the amount I've spent on it vs. the joy I'm getting using it.

I got the DCS 50 used for about $60 !! After I get use to everything I'm looking into some way better equipment lol

NEC powercab I hear is reliable ! any suggestions from the masters !! lol ???


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## Magic

On the DCS51 there are two keys on the left side that say "FUNC+10" and "FUNC+20"
These take you to the second and third pages of the function keys. 
They add 10 or 20 to the value of the Function keys.
I don't know if the keys are on the DCS50, might take a look.

If you don't have a manual go to Digitrax and download one.
The DCS50 should be all you need to run your layout but if you really want to get something new 
the NEC powercab is a good unit, just cost more money.

Magic


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## rrjim1

bl665 said:


> I got the DCS 50 used for about $60 !! After I get use to everything I'm looking into some way better equipment lol
> 
> NEC powercab I hear is reliable ! any suggestions from the masters !! lol ???


 I have been using Digitrax for a long time, you can't purchase a more reliable system. You can also add a hand held throttle to your DCS 50. My layout is 40' by 24' and I don't need a second booster. I run several trains with multiple locos, some with sound. I wouldn't trade my Digitrax system for another one even if it was free.


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## bl665

Ya It doesnt have them unfortunately. I like the idea of adding a handheld unit. That would be helpful ! Ya the digitrax is very user friendly.


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## traction fan

bl665 said:


> Wow 6 !! thats pretty incredible and goes to show me that you really dont need as much as everyone has been suggesting in books !! Very neat.
> 
> I was actually referring to the functions for the Locomotive, the ones beyond F8 on the throttle control. I found out I need to have another unit to pull that off ! Oh well. I'm fairly happy with the amount I've spent on it vs. the joy I'm getting using it.
> 
> I got the DCS 50 used for about $60 !! After I get use to everything I'm looking into some way better equipment lol
> 
> NEC powercab I hear is reliable ! any suggestions from the masters !! lol ???



bl665;

I use, like, and recommend, the NCE Powercab. The entire DCC system is contained in one hand-held unit. It's full functioned, easy to hook up, (two wires) easy to program, and easy to use. It sells for about $200, but you can find discounts.


Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Big Bill

traction fan said:


> bl665;
> 
> I use, like, and recommend, the NCE Powercab. The entire DCC system is contained in one hand-held unit. It's full functioned, easy to hook up, (two wires) easy to program, and easy to use. It sells for about $200, but you can find discounts.
> 
> 
> Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


I got a NCE powercabfor $125.00 inc shipping off of E bay.
just need to keep looking, bargins do show up now and then.


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## bl665

I ran across a few brand new for $180~ on ebay. For now I think I will stick with digitrax though and find a handheld. 

Where do you guys get your Scaled size humans and buildings from ? I want a guy fishing for my layout lol


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## Magic

For most anything for a model RR I use Model Train Stuff.com
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/
They have most anything you may need.

Magic


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## traction fan

*Figures and structures*



bl665 said:


> I ran across a few brand new for $180~ on ebay. For now I think I will stick with digitrax though and find a handheld.
> 
> Where do you guys get your Scaled size humans and buildings from ? I want a guy fishing for my layout lol


bl665;

You can buy Preiser figures (humans and animals) and structure kits from any online dealer. www.modeltrainstuff.com and www.trainworld.com are two good online dealers. 

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## QueenoftheGN

bl665 said:


> I ran across a few brand new for $180~ on ebay. For now I think I will stick with digitrax though and find a handheld.
> 
> Where do you guys get your Scaled size humans and buildings from ? I want a guy fishing for my layout lol



i would purchase it from here https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/n-scale/


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## bl665

You guys rock !! Sorry its been so long I've been battling this layout and its configuration here. 

Check it out !

I have been running some trains let me tell you !! One exciting thing is chasing one train with the other hahaha Esepcially "under the influence" Which makes it more daunting. I've got the track work and switches all figured out for the bottom portion of the track which is exciting. When it comes to the top ... well you can say I ran into a few things. After watching the train go around a few times I noticed that there was not really any way to turn it around upon its completion of the loop. I was baffled that my plan was sub par in this department and it made me a bit frustrated. I ran some ideas out on paper and came to a conclusion of what I will do. I have to add in some more turnouts. 

Another thing I have to add (I think) is another reversing loop. Now currently I have one AR-1 (digitrax) and its on the lower level. I'm wondering how I can add to that ?? I have attached some photos of my layout, excluding the center portion since its all straight track going across, and if you look at the right hand side you will see the current reverse loop and where I think I should land the other Reverse loop. 

Since I've never really dabbled with AR-1's before I wanted to know if you can use 1 AR-1 for multiple (in my case 2) reversing loops. Also I've been told you have to have the train shorter than your loop or it will short ? I've actually been running a caboose with steel wheels at the end and it hasn't given me any problems.

I've also ran two trains on the reversing loop and 1 on it and 1 off of it and haven't had any issues.


This is a combined view and below will be a split view.
































Cheers in advance in you can advised on this. Thanks guys you better be looking forward to the narley bridge I'm scratch building out of balsa wood !! Woo Woo !! :smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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## bl665

More fun 

Balsa Wood is fun ! 







































Woooo wOOOOOO !!!


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## traction fan

*Looks like fun*



bl665 said:


> More fun
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> Woooo wOOOOOO !!!




bl665;

Nice looking structure. Is this your first scratchbuild? If so congratulations! 

On your next one I suggest you try out basswood, instead of balsa wood. It looks similar, but is stronger. After putting effort into building a structure, I want it to last, and be able to hold up to any rough treatment that might accidentally befall it. 

The size of those timbers looks too big. An N-scale foot is only 1/16" I use 1/16" square pilings on the little coal unloading trestle in the photo to represent 12" x 12" timbers. The cross-bracing is even smaller, about 2" x 12".

Good work, keep having fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## bl665

Yes it is my first build !! I did notice the wood is to big but hey ... this layout is part fictional so I’ll use that excuse hahah

I actually am using basswood for the supports. If you look closely you will see it on the sides and middle of the structure. I also am going to put more pictures up which will give you a better look at the middle sections. 

Traction fan!! Do you have any thoughts on the reverse loop situation I’m facing ?? Hahaha. See pics a post above for reference ! Cheers !


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## traction fan

*Reverse loops*



bl665 said:


> Yes it is my first build !! I did notice the wood is to big but hey ... this layout is part fictional so I’ll use that excuse hahah
> 
> I actually am using basswood for the supports. If you look closely you will see it on the sides and middle of the structure. I also am going to put more pictures up which will give you a better look at the middle sections.
> 
> Traction fan!! Do you have any thoughts on the reverse loop situation I’m facing ?? Hahaha. See pics a post above for reference ! Cheers !


bl665;

Each reverse loop needs its own "frog juicer" or AR1? Digitrax equivalent, I don't think you can run two loops with the same polarity reversing device. Yes, The loops should each be long enough to hold your longest train. You don't want the locomotive to come out of the loop and T-bone the caboose that's just going in!  Electrically, both rails of a reversing loop need insulated rail joiners in them. This is to isolate the loop from the rest of the railroad. As the loco comes out of the loop, it will emerge onto the main line, which is still set for the polarity that drove the loco into the loop. That polarity is wrong for exiting the loop, going onto the same track, but in the opposite direction of travel. That's where the frog juicer come in. It senses the short circuit and instantly switches the polarity of the main line, so that it agrees with the loop. The train can then continue on, in the opposite direction from the way it arrived. Reverse loops, and other wiring, are covered in the attached file. The last two pages cover how a reverse loop works.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


View attachment 6 How to build a better first layout.pdf


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## bl665

So I did some digging on my layout and found that the reverse loop I originally installed is not even a reverse loop :laugh::laugh::laugh: Omg !! I'm not sure if the guy at my hobby shop was looking at the whole thing. but Hey my drawing isnt picasos haha. 

It is all clear now and I actually don't even have to buy another AR-1 which saves me $30. I'm happy about that. I even think that I'm going to have 2 tracks going over the bridge area as the very upper most center piece of my track plan (area with the trestle and bridges) is the actual reverse loop.

It will be pretty neat. In order to turn my train around I'm going to have to go all the way to the top to do it and then come back down ! Pretty Exciting. I'm waiting on parts and have a week off next week. Man Am I looking forward to getting the track work done !!

In other news..... This is BIG news for @tractionfan hahahaha




























I believe I'm going to stain the trestle. I hate painting it and losing all that detail of the wood grain. time to go shopping !!!


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## bl665

It's sad that I haven't been on here in so long. I have been periodically working on the layout though. New job happened. Then Corona Virus hit LA and everyone is freaking out so I had to be inspector gadget and get TP and water. Between it all though I was able to get some work done. This bridge I'm staining is going to take longer than expected. Painting every surface was a lot more work than I anticipated. It is going to be well worth it though. The color is beautiful.

1st things 1st !! In order to even place the bridge/tressel I have to finish some of the land cover that falls underneath it. I'm using a technique I picked up from youtube and altered it a bit after trying it on a sample piece. It works out good and the texture is really nice. I also built up the mountain area for the evil witch's house !!!












































































One other issue I ran into was figuring out how to actually get the train to turn around on the same loop. Many nights I stood in front of the layout with a beer that had a hole at the bottom and thought ..... how am I going to do this..... as it wasn't in my original track plan. I had to do some mediocre adjustments. The difficult part was putting these 2 switch machines in accurately since 1 side of track was going down and the other was rising up. This took a lot of adjusting and troubleshooting. If there was one thing that I will not forget about building this layout this will be it !! You can also see in pictures above that the big mountain is going to have a pass through which is going to be pretty neat IMO.






























Any who! I'm working from home. Pretty nice actually. I'm just glad to be working. Hopefully I can get some photos of the trestle on here later. Enjoy !!


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## QueenoftheGN

nice work!


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## bl665

Thank you Very much! I'm really excited to start painting and adding scenery lol. White gets boring after a while !!


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## QueenoftheGN

bl665 said:


> Thank you Very much! I'm really excited to start painting and adding scenery lol. White gets boring after a while !!


I can confirm!


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## gimme30

Nice job on the trestle, I love your enthusiasm!

I just finished the vamp villa myself so I'll be watching to see how yours turns out....:thumbsup:


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## bl665

gimme30 said:


> Nice job on the trestle, I love your enthusiasm!
> 
> I just finished the vamp villa myself so I'll be watching to see how yours turns out....:thumbsup:


Thanks! Ya its going to be a sweet view when its all put together. Oh nice !! Thats awesome. How did you paint it ? Can i check it out ? :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## bl665

So 1st coat of stain on the Trestle.... where the hell did they get the word Trestle from anyways ?!?! 
























































Cheers and happy Friday !


----------



## bl665

I have to upload this !! I'm setting up my layout to be versatile between DCC and DC. So with that said I got bored the other day and hooked up the DC system and ran some of the first trains I ever bought!! 

These Suckers are quick !! haha.


----------



## Old_Hobo

bl665 said:


> So 1st coat of stain on the Trestle.... where the hell did they get the word Trestle from anyways ?!?!


Google is your friend.....



> *trestle* - Middle English: from Old French trestel, based on Latin transtrum ‘beam’


----------



## Patrick1544

Formula 1 ?


----------



## bl665

Thanks for that Reference !! and ya F1 !!! hahah Great comment. Nikki Lauda coming down the stretch !!


----------



## bl665

This is my 5th day inside ..... Dear god hahaha! This is my current mood. I need to do some more trimming since I'm going to have a path going up to the witchs house. Pretty exciting to have one of the portals and mountains glued down. Finally starting to "see" some progress. I think I've spent a lot of time recently doing a small bit of backtracking and re-configuring track, which I am still doing, It is not perfect lol I still get derailments from time to time. Also the dam Atlas switch machines..... ugh .... Never again ! I also bought 2 atlas pieces of rolling stock. I don't like em







I am learning that Atlas products are sub par. Including ! My locomotive. I realized the front truck clip broke so the plastic truck cover hangs low!! First the pair I bought the motor was bad. Now the second one is falling apart!

Keep in mind ALL ATLAS !!

What kind of models are they selling!?!?!?!?!

Very unfortunate.


----------



## Big Bill

Good looking trestle.


----------



## gimme30

bl665 said:


> Thanks! Ya its going to be a sweet view when its all put together. Oh nice !! Thats awesome. How did you paint it ? Can i check it out ? :smilie_daumenpos:


What are you using for stain? I like that shade and thought I had some lying around here somewhere but I musta used it up. Looks like it's water-based? Anyway that should look great once it's in place, and since you're stuck indoors anyway...…..


Sorry about the late pics BL!


----------



## traction fan

bl665 said:


> This is my 5th day inside ..... Dear god hahaha! This is my current mood. I need to do some more trimming since I'm going to have a path going up to the witchs house. Pretty exciting to have one of the portals and mountains glued down. Finally starting to "see" some progress. I think I've spent a lot of time recently doing a small bit of backtracking and re-configuring track, which I am still doing, It is not perfect lol I still get derailments from time to time. Also the dam Atlas switch machines..... ugh .... Never again ! I also bought 2 atlas pieces of rolling stock. I don't like em
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am learning that Atlas products are sub par. Including ! My locomotive. I realized the front truck clip broke so the plastic truck cover hangs low!! First the pair I bought the motor was bad. Now the second one is falling apart!
> 
> Keep in mind ALL ATLAS !!
> 
> What kind of models are they selling!?!?!?!?!
> 
> Very unfortunate.





bl665 said:


> This is my 5th day inside ..... Dear god hahaha! This is my current mood. I need to do some more trimming since I'm going to have a path going up to the witchs house. Pretty exciting to have one of the portals and mountains glued down. Finally starting to "see" some progress. I think I've spent a lot of time recently doing a small bit of backtracking and re-configuring track, which I am still doing, It is not perfect lol I still get derailments from time to time. Also the dam Atlas switch machines..... ugh .... Never again ! I also bought 2 atlas pieces of rolling stock. I don't like em
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am learning that Atlas products are sub par. Including ! My locomotive. I realized the front truck clip broke so the plastic truck cover hangs low!! First the pair I bought the motor was bad. Now the second one is falling apart!
> 
> Keep in mind ALL ATLAS !!
> 
> What kind of models are they selling!?!?!?!?!
> 
> Very unfortunate.


bl665;


If your derailments are happening on your turnouts, there is a cure for that. The pdf attached, "Improving Atlas turnouts" explains what the problems with them are, and what can be done to fix them. The first 7 pages deal primarily with problems in the HO-scale Atlas "Snap Switch" turnout. Fortunately for we N-scale modelers, these problems were not were not included in the design of the N-scale version. Starting on page 8 there is description of some problems and fixes, that applies to both the N-scale, and HO-scale turnouts. Doing the recommended modifications should drastically reduce the number of derailments. gimme30 has recently used the info in my file on his Atlas turnouts. Before modification he could not get his Kato GG1 locomotive through either of his Atlas turnouts, without either the front, or rear, trucks derailing. Now he can, with no derailments. Cousin Eddie is having the same problem and I have sent him the file and recommended he modify his turnouts. He plans to do so. 
However, maybe I'm misunderstanding your problem. You specifically mentioned the Atlas switch machines. Are they not working right, what can you tell me about the problem your having with them? Maybe I can help.

Traction Fan


----------



## bl665

gimme30 said:


> What are you using for stain? I like that shade and thought I had some lying around here somewhere but I musta used it up. Looks like it's water-based? Anyway that should look great once it's in place, and since you're stuck indoors anyway...…..
> 
> 
> Sorry about the late pics BL!
> 
> View attachment 539750
> 
> 
> View attachment 539752



Nice !!! Thats awesome man ! Do you have smoke going through it too like they have in the picture. I was wondering how that was able to happen. 

Thanks traction fan. You're always looking out! I went ahead and did my own little tweaking to the turnouts similar to what you suggested in your file. I got them working a lot better over the last few days. I just feel that atlas has some screwy products. I hate to say that but its just true. with every Item I have from them. Out of the box I've had to do some tweaking to the item to get it working right. Thats just sad. Any who well see what happens. I got a lot of ground cover to paint !


----------



## traction fan

bl665 said:


> Nice !!! Thats awesome man ! Do you have smoke going through it too like they have in the picture. I was wondering how that was able to happen.
> 
> Thanks traction fan. You're always looking out! I went ahead and did my own little tweaking to the turnouts similar to what you suggested in your file. I got them working a lot better over the last few days. I just feel that atlas has some screwy products. I hate to say that but its just true. with every Item I have from them. Out of the box I've had to do some tweaking to the item to get it working right. That's just sad. Any who well see what happens. I got a lot of ground cover to paint !



bl665;

Yes, I agree with you about Atlas turnouts, though not necessarily about all atlas products. I have been a critic of the Atlas snap switch turnouts for years, and I advise people to buy something better like Peco, Micro Engineering, or Walthers/shinohara. However, Atlas turnouts are very popular with newbies, and I wrote the file to help them make their Atlas turnouts work better.

Traction Fan 😊


----------



## bl665

Slow night but a lot of progress has been made. ! 
so I made a cartoon !











I have been learning too that you have to install them correctly. I made a lot of mistakes which lead to more problems. If that wouldn't have happened They probably would be ok. I'm going to work out the kinks and make it work. almost there ! Ya keep doing those manuals because they are all the things you really need to know when you first start. @traction fan


----------



## bl665

More fun then work on the layout the last few days ! I really spent more time looking and taking pictures then I did then making anything stick. Except for the modpodge/water mix I had for the ground cover. So that is a finished product ready to paint and decorate some what. 

On top of that I placed an order of 2 locos and didnt know when I was going to get them based on the new circumstances we all have to deal with. I received them very early today and was very satisfied with what they have to offer. I am a new fan of Broadway Limited models. It seems the can be quite sensitive though ! The sound and solidity is legit.

Random pics:

My girl is handling this building. I told her she should have painted it before .... hahaha but she has quite a steady hand !! so well see when it comes down the to painting !








































the collection so far. The paragon sound is incredibily goooood !!!































I had some cars that were being troublesome ... I customized them and now they work... go figure ! 













Hmm...


----------



## gimme30

bl665 said:


> My girl is handling this building. I told her she should have painted it before .... hahaha but she has quite a steady hand !! so well see when it comes down the to painting !


Lol good choice! Even though you don't use them all it's still over 200 pieces, (mostly windows) very time consuming! 
One tip-make sure she's super careful with the doors that open on the "garage." The hinges are crazy fragile so a small piece of tape on the back to keep them from swinging open might help them survive the build.


----------



## bl665

gimme30 said:


> Lol good choice! Even though you don't use them all it's still over 200 pieces, (mostly windows) very time consuming!
> One tip-make sure she's super careful with the doors that open on the "garage." The hinges are crazy fragile so a small piece of tape on the back to keep them from swinging open might help them survive the build.


hahaha Those poor doors ! We didn't get the message in time! I just got on to see this and I tell her look! This guy had the same thing happen to him. She moved around the doors and they broke.

Fortunately we already planned on having a broken down building (slightly how it is on the box) so we plan on putting a car or something broken down in the door way and the doors laying on it as if someone broke them driving out or into the garage !


----------



## bl665

Ill post some pictures later hopefully. We got a lot done these last few days. 
Cheers !


----------



## bl665

Happy Easter Everyone !! Im here to report not so good news. the last few weeks I have received my 2 new Broadway Limited Import with Paragon 3 Sound decoder. I was so excited and was very impressed with how they look.

The storm came fast. The second I put one on the track I was immediately exposed to What I believe would be a combination between bad track work/bad locomotive. I was immediately frustrated and a bit furious for what I paid for these things.

It was so confusing because I ran my bachman steam loco and atlas with esu sound decoder and I mean I tested the crap out of the track while i was building it and I literally had 0 issues which Is why I moved on to upper level of track and some scenery. I broke down and ran it in sections and did my best to straigthen things out. They kept stalling on frogs of my "beautiful" atlas turnouts and even stalling on random sections of track I know have solid power coming from multiple directions. Track was clean and level...... still stalled for no reason !!! 

I spent days tweaking and cleaning every section of track on the layout and it improved up until I got to one section of track that is suppose to be under a mountain and I found even more issues. So I went ahead and cut everything out and said **** this I'll just replace everything. I had plenty of track and 2 new switches to put in. I've spent the last few weeks trying to work out the kinks. Today I gave up and told myself I need to ask for help or return these products and just say screw it. This has gotten to be the worst experience I've ever had in this hobby. back in the day with the DC locos you turn it on and run it. 

These models today are ridiculously sensitive. The BLI Paragon 3 will not even keep going. It just comes to a dead stop even if its at full speed. The thing also does not return to its original set speed so it stalls even more if your not right next to it to push and get it to a section of track it likes. Fucking stupid. lol

These atlas turnout have me pulling my hair out. The new ones I installed like brand new out of the packaging. Caused problems and wont even switch. I mean I dont get it... They are on a flat surface they have power no glue on the track and plenty of "moving room" WTF !!!! I made a huge mistake wasting time and money on these. DO NOT BUY ATLAS turnouts !!

So I attached a few videos. If I can get some help that would be great. If not I'll just have to start completely over and find a way to get decent turnouts on my layout.... which I'm not looking forward to. Anyone want a job ? I'm even considering hiring someone to help me solve these problems. I'm fn' pissed !! 

Take care everyone !

@traction fan I may need to PM you let me know if that is ok Thank you !


----------



## traction fan

bl665 said:


> Happy Easter Everyone !! Im here to report not so good news. the last few weeks I have received my 2 new Broadway Limited Import with Paragon 3 Sound decoder. I was so excited and was very impressed with how they look.
> 
> The storm came fast. The second I put one on the track I was immediately exposed to What I believe would be a combination between bad track work/bad locomotive. I was immediately frustrated and a bit furious for what I paid for these things.
> 
> It was so confusing because I ran my bachman steam loco and atlas with esu sound decoder and I mean I tested the crap out of the track while i was building it and I literally had 0 issues which Is why I moved on to upper level of track and some scenery. I broke down and ran it in sections and did my best to straigthen things out. They kept stalling on frogs of my "beautiful" atlas turnouts and even stalling on random sections of track I know have solid power coming from multiple directions. Track was clean and level...... still stalled for no reason !!!
> 
> I spent days tweaking and cleaning every section of track on the layout and it improved up until I got to one section of track that is suppose to be under a mountain and I found even more issues. So I went ahead and cut everything out and said **** this I'll just replace everything. I had plenty of track and 2 new switches to put in. I've spent the last few weeks trying to work out the kinks. Today I gave up and told myself I need to ask for help or return these products and just say screw it. This has gotten to be the worst experience I've ever had in this hobby. back in the day with the DC locos you turn it on and run it.
> 
> These models today are ridiculously sensitive. The BLI Paragon 3 will not even keep going. It just comes to a dead stop even if its at full speed. The thing also does not return to its original set speed so it stalls even more if your not right next to it to push and get it to a section of track it likes. Fucking stupid. lol
> 
> These atlas turnout have me pulling my hair out. The new ones I installed like brand new out of the packaging. Caused problems and wont even switch. I mean I dont get it... They are on a flat surface they have power no glue on the track and plenty of "moving room" WTF !!!! I made a huge mistake wasting time and money on these. DO NOT BUY ATLAS turnouts !!
> 
> So I attached a few videos. If I can get some help that would be great. If not I'll just have to start completely over and find a way to get decent turnouts on my layout.... which I'm not looking forward to. Anyone want a job ? I'm even considering hiring someone to help me solve these problems. I'm fn' pissed !!
> 
> Take care everyone !
> 
> @traction fan I may need to PM you let me know if that is ok Thank you !


bl665;

Sorry you're having so many problems! One of the things most obvious in your whole post, is your high level of frustration. I have been there, and I find it helps to just walk away and go do something else for a while. Pushing yourself on and on trying to solve the same problems, usually interferes with your ability to fix them.
Certainly it's OK with me for you to send me a private message. I didn't know we still had that feature with the new format. Maybe you can tell me how to do a PM on the new format?

While Atlas "Snap Switch " turnouts are not very good quality, it is possible to make these turnouts themselves quite reliable, as far as keeping all the wheels on the rails. They still have plastic, non-powered frogs, some slop in their points, and a weak switch machine.
I have modified some Atlas snap switch turnouts with brass-over-PC-tie-throwbars, and soldered rail joiners replacing the loose tab pivots for the points. Other than the plastic frog, they would meet the "DCC ready" configuration. They would require a stronger switch motor, like the Tortoise, or the Hankscraft motors that I use. The weak Atlas twin coil machine would not be able to move the points without the tab pivots.

The fixes for snap switches are actually pretty simple. Gimme30 recently performed my recommended fixes on his N-scale Atlas snap switch turnouts with great success. He had locomotives that derailed every time they tried to get through his Atlas turnouts. After modifying them, no derailments, even with his problem locomotives.
I have covered these modifications in my file "Improving Atlas turnouts." I have also just finished a second "Improving Atlas Turnouts" file, this one specifically about the N-scale version of the Atlas snap switch turnout. The N-scale version of the Atlas Snap switch is actually better in some ways, than the HO version, but either scale is fixable. Both files are attached.

One of the worst parts of the Atlas snap switch, in either scale, is the Atlas switch machine that comes attached to it. In your video, I only see two wires coming from the turnout, a red, & a green. There should be a third, black, wire, but I don't see that one.
The Atlas switch machine can work, but it's nowhere near as powerful as a Peco twin-coil machine, or a Tortoise motor. Using a Capacitive Discharge Unit (CDU) is a good idea for any coil-driven switch machine, These include Atlas, Bachmann, Kato, Life Like, and Peco.
The CDU produces a very short, but powerful, spike of electricity, and this helps overcome some of the inherent weakness of the Atlas switch machine. It also protects against burnt out coils.

If you prefer to replace your Atlas turnouts with a better brand, I recommend buying either Peco, or Micro Engineering.

Peco is very ruggedly built, and offers a wide selection of types.
On the bad side, Peco is based on a British prototype turnout, rather than an American prototype, so it looks a little odd. Not a deal breaker though. 
Also Peco has a very strange idea of what "code 55" means. Their "code 55" N-scale turnouts actually have code 78 rail, with some of it buried in the tie strip. They also made this rail with two bases, which makes it very difficult to connect to any other brand of track that uses actual code 55 rail. These issues won't matter for you though, since your not using code 55 track. The Peco "code 55" Unifrog turnouts will connect normally to your code 80 track.

Micro Engineering turnouts have a fantastically realistic appearance, and they are mechanically reliable, use actual code 55 rail, and come with the "DCC ready" configuration built in. (so does the Peco "Unifrog" and possibly also the "Electrofrog")

The two limitations of Micro Engineering turnouts are extremely limited selection of types, (#6 left & #6 right only) and delicate spike detail, which is part of their great looks, but also makes them prone to damage, if not carefully handled.

From your reported problems with your new locomotives stopping, I think you should consider only turnouts with powered, isolated, metal frogs. The Micro Engineering, Peco Unifrog and possibly the Peco Electrofrog have this type of frog.

From your video, I was not able to see the "Atlas turnouts won't switch" problem clearly but I could hear it. I suggest disconnecting the Atlas switch machine, if you can, and trying to move the points by direct hand pushing. I think they may be mechanically bound up. 

Traction Fan


----------



## bl665

Hey people !! I am going to be MIA updating all these switch machines. I can't wait to catch back up to where I was. I was ready to add scenery paint and the final pieces of track and bam !!! Should have just paid the extra money hahah

@traction fan I sent you a DM Let me know if you didnt get it !

Cheers everyone !


----------



## traction fan

bl665 said:


> Hey people !! I am going to be MIA updating all these switch machines. I can't wait to catch back up to where I was. I was ready to add scenery paint and the final pieces of track and bam !!! Should have just paid the extra money hahah
> 
> @traction fan I sent you a DM Let me know if you didnt get it !
> 
> Cheers everyone !


bl665;

Yes, I did see your PM, at least briefly. I was trying to reply to it when a random mouse click sent it off into cyberspace, or wherever things go while I'm trying to use this "lovely" new format! I then created, and I hope sent, a PM to you. It was long and detailed and I hope it didn't just disappear. Let me know if you received it or not please.

Traction Fan


----------



## bl665

traction fan said:


> bl665;
> 
> Yes, I did see your PM, at least briefly. I was trying to reply to it when a random mouse click sent it off into cyberspace, or wherever things go while I'm trying to use this "lovely" new format! I then created, and I hope sent, a PM to you. It was long and detailed and I hope it didn't just disappear. Let me know if you received it or not please.
> 
> Traction Fan



Traction fan !! Hey unfortunately I did not receive the message. 

I can help guide you though.

In the upper right hand corner of this page, on the model train forum bar that runs across the top of the browser there is 4 icons on the right of it. The third from the left is your picture. If you click "your picture" a drop down menu will come up. It says about half way through "conversations". My message will be in that area. If its a pain just reply here. Im sorry to put you through that. Thanks for being patient with me. 

*
Here is the original message just in case you want to reply here::*

Traction Fan !!! Hi and hope you are well. So I was able to find the message feature. I wanted to get with you and ask a few questions. 

Here we go:

1. You mentioned this in your reply 

"Peco is very ruggedly built, and offers a wide selection of types.
On the bad side, Peco is based on a British prototype turnout, rather than an American prototype, so it looks a little odd. Not a deal breaker though. 
Also Peco has a very strange idea of what "code 55" means. Their "code 55" N-scale turnouts actually have code 78 rail, with some of it buried in the tie strip. They also made this rail with two bases, which makes it very difficult to connect to any other brand of track that uses actual code 55 rail. These issues won't matter for you though, since your not using code 55 track. The Peco "code 55" Unifrog turnouts will connect normally to your code 80 track."

I am actually using peco code 55 track. You mention that the peco switch has a hard time connecting to peco code 55 track. Now is that just other brands or does it also include peco ? (there own brand and own switch dont match?)

I've been connecting the atlas code 80 to the peco 55 with good results minus the switch machine area.

2. Referring to the peco uniforg/electrofrog .. What is the difference here ? 

3. I originally wanted to do this setup but I didn't think atlas switches would be this bad. 
(I really had more faith than I should have in this product and have nothing but problems with most of there stuff.)
So I decided to do that and now I have decided to go back to the original plan even though It is a lot of back tracking... but its ok I want it to be solid and work 110%. 

With that said I have to ask. 

I know the tortoise switch only comes with a 3.5" long spring coil bar. I have an issue on my layout where there is a 2x4 going right under the switch machine. So I would not be able to mount directly under the switch. I'm not sure if this is ok but would like to ask you if your familiar with this. I also have switches on higher parts of the layout which also need a longer spring coil. I may be thinking to much into this but since I've never used these machines before I want to know that they will be installable when I get them.

Thats it for me asking. Thank you so much for taking the time to write and send all that information on the thread. It is a real help. Unfortunately with all these problems I'm not going to waste anymore time on these silly atlas switches. I feel I'll spend more time "hooking them up" then I would just replacing them. To bad I didn't go with my gut lol. My wallet is definitely yelling at me 🤣🤣🤣

Thanks @traction fan Your much appreciated! Hope to hear from you soon !

-Sam


----------



## gimme30

Benchwork falling apart, trouble with Atlas engines/cars/switches, Bli units stalling, and broken garage doors! 

Model railroading is FUN! 

I've had those days too...days I'd have been better off never getting out of bed! I don't know if it's like this with the larger scales but sometimes it seems like getting it right in N boils down to luck and voodoo. Things can work flawlessly for weeks then one day WHAMO! Your favorite engine catches fire right before it locks at full throttle, derails on a perfectly straight, flat section of track, and catapults the entire consist in a gentle arc through space to crash into the classic car you THOUGHT was parked far enough away from any potential calamity. 

Thankfully there's a fix. Grab some salt, some sage, and one of those easy-light logs and head out into the backyard. Once the flames are going and the sage is smokin' strip down and dance nekkid round the fire while you throw salt over your shoulder and sing the lyrics to "I've been working on the railroad" backwards. 

Loudly, and in plain view of all the neighbors. 🏆


----------



## traction fan

gimme30 said:


> Benchwork falling apart, trouble with Atlas engines/cars/switches, Bli units stalling, and broken garage doors!
> 
> Model railroading is FUN!
> 
> I've had those days too...days I'd have been better off never getting out of bed! I don't know if it's like this with the larger scales but sometimes it seems like getting it right in N boils down to luck and voodoo. Things can work flawlessly for weeks then one day WHAMO! Your favorite engine catches fire right before it locks at full throttle, derails on a perfectly straight, flat section of track, and catapults the entire consist in a gentle arc through space to crash into the classic car you THOUGHT was parked far enough away from any potential calamity.
> 
> Thankfully there's a fix. Grab some salt, some sage, and one of those easy-light logs and head out into the backyard. Once the flames are going and the sage is smokin' strip down and dance nekkid round the fire while you throw salt over your shoulder and sing the lyrics to "I've been working on the railroad" backwards.
> 
> Loudly, and in plain view of all the neighbors. 🏆


gimme30

Well said sir!

Traction Fan


----------



## traction fan

bl665 said:


> Traction fan !! Hey unfortunately I did not receive the message.
> 
> I can help guide you though.
> 
> In the upper right hand corner of this page, on the model train forum bar that runs across the top of the browser there is 4 icons on the right of it. The third from the left is your picture. If you click "your picture" a drop down menu will come up. It says about half way through "conversations". My message will be in that area. If its a pain just reply here. Im sorry to put you through that. Thanks for being patient with me.
> 
> 
> *Here is the original message just in case you want to reply here::*
> 
> Traction Fan !!! Hi and hope you are well. So I was able to find the message feature. I wanted to get with you and ask a few questions.
> 
> Here we go:
> 
> 1. You mentioned this in your reply
> 
> "Peco is very ruggedly built, and offers a wide selection of types.
> On the bad side, Peco is based on a British prototype turnout, rather than an American prototype, so it looks a little odd. Not a deal breaker though.
> Also Peco has a very strange idea of what "code 55" means. Their "code 55" N-scale turnouts actually have code 78 rail, with some of it buried in the tie strip. They also made this rail with two bases, which makes it very difficult to connect to any other brand of track that uses actual code 55 rail. These issues won't matter for you though, since your not using code 55 track. The Peco "code 55" Unifrog turnouts will connect normally to your code 80 track."
> 
> I am actually using peco code 55 track. You mention that the peco switch has a hard time connecting to peco code 55 track. Now is that just other brands or does it also include peco ? (there own brand and own switch dont match?)
> 
> I've been connecting the atlas code 80 to the peco 55 with good results minus the switch machine area.
> 
> 2. Referring to the peco uniforg/electrofrog .. What is the difference here ?
> 
> 3. I originally wanted to do this setup but I didn't think atlas switches would be this bad.
> (I really had more faith than I should have in this product and have nothing but problems with most of there stuff.)
> So I decided to do that and now I have decided to go back to the original plan even though It is a lot of back tracking... but its ok I want it to be solid and work 110%.
> 
> With that said I have to ask.
> 
> I know the tortoise switch only comes with a 3.5" long spring coil bar. I have an issue on my layout where there is a 2x4 going right under the switch machine. So I would not be able to mount directly under the switch. I'm not sure if this is ok but would like to ask you if your familiar with this. I also have switches on higher parts of the layout which also need a longer spring coil. I may be thinking to much into this but since I've never used these machines before I want to know that they will be installable when I get them.
> 
> Thats it for me asking. Thank you so much for taking the time to write and send all that information on the thread. It is a real help. Unfortunately with all these problems I'm not going to waste anymore time on these silly atlas switches. I feel I'll spend more time "hooking them up" then I would just replacing them. To bad I didn't go with my gut lol. My wallet is definitely yelling at me 🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Thanks @traction fan Your much appreciated! Hope to hear from you soon !
> 
> 
> 
> -Sam
> 
> I followed your directions and wet to "conversations" to find your post. I replied (again) in that conversation. Actually you will find two replies from me. Please ignore the first (top) one as it has some bum info about the Electrofrog. While I have both Unifrogs, and InsuIfrogs, on my layout, I have never owned an Electrofrog. So I checked online this morning, and got some more accurate information. I included that in my "second draft". The "splendid" new format wouldn't let me edit my "first draft" so I had to "reply" to my own message to make the corrections. Hence the unwanted double post. So, follow your own directions to get to "conversations", ignore my first response and read the second one.
> 
> Traction Fan


----------



## bl665

gimme30 said:


> Benchwork falling apart, trouble with Atlas engines/cars/switches, Bli units stalling, and broken garage doors!
> 
> Model railroading is FUN!
> 
> I've had those days too...days I'd have been better off never getting out of bed! I don't know if it's like this with the larger scales but sometimes it seems like getting it right in N boils down to luck and voodoo. Things can work flawlessly for weeks then one day WHAMO! Your favorite engine catches fire right before it locks at full throttle, derails on a perfectly straight, flat section of track, and catapults the entire consist in a gentle arc through space to crash into the classic car you THOUGHT was parked far enough away from any potential calamity.
> 
> Thankfully there's a fix. Grab some salt, some sage, and one of those easy-light logs and head out into the backyard. Once the flames are going and the sage is smokin' strip down and dance nekkid round the fire while you throw salt over your shoulder and sing the lyrics to "I've been working on the railroad" backwards.
> 
> Loudly, and in plain view of all the neighbors. 🏆



@gimme30 You my man are hilarious !!!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 I have to remember to leave my cars I'm not using in the cases if I ever run trains with you hahahahaha I can't even imagine that. The thing is they can do it so quietly too. You turn your head for a second and its over ! hahaha

I can't even imagine what my neighbors must think. If I was them (Since my garage is in the front of my house) I would be looking at me with binoculars lol!


Ok ... Walked away, took a breath, and changed my socks .. mental break was over and I decided to get back to work. I got a very helpful message from @traction fan and was inspired once again. This is not my first battle nor my last. 

Instead of working with turnouts and trackwork on the layout I decided to modify my benchwork to fit some tortoise switches and wiring. I went ahead and finished the fascia also. This helped with the way it bowed and sat on the stands. I should have done this from the beginning. I now know that I do things the hard way. SMH

After applying some long 12' 2x4 and some bracing on the back. I now have a solid solid layout I can move around very easily. No more to do in that department!















































Here are some sideways photos! I love these. To bad you cant run trains like this !




















It looks like the way for me to go is mostly PECO tunrouts. I'm not sure If I should get small or medium radius.. I more than likely will go with medium. I'm going to have to look more into this though. There are a lot of options to choose from. Tortoise and PECO switching units are also going to be looked at here. I hope to get back to the trackwork soon. I miss running trains already !


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## bl665

Not sure If you saw these but if not enjoy hahaha !!!!


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## gimme30

"Here are some sideways photos. I love these. To bad you cant run trains like this !"

I know right! I'd have loop the loops all over the place running one of those bullet trains, making all the little passengers barf on the ceilings. 

You finished your trestle! It looks great!

Btw, what's with the name change? California wild fire and growth exhibit? WAASSSSUUUPPP! was a lot easier to find!


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## bl665

That would make for a pleasant ride ! The horses would sure have a hard time keeping up with the trains. It would make for easy unloading of cars though depending on the location of the station platform hahahaha. Just be careful not be in the way of a package when open car doors!

Or a good way to get someones lunch money lol 

@gimme30
Thanks about the Trestle. I still have a few spots on the underside I need to cover. Just in case someone wants to get into detail about it haha. It works well though. The grading came out way better than I had hoped for. 

WASSSSSSSUUUUPPP!! Was the original name for this forum. When I first got back into all this a few months back This is the only forum I could find. I went on to find TrainBoard.com - The Internet's Original and I figured I would make the same thread there. By that time I had already decided what area and time frame I wanted with the layout. I then called it the California wild fire and growth exhibit. For a while I was curious about changing again but I'm confident with it now.

Yesterday I decided to make a control panel for the neat little switches I will be getting. Waiting on parts is killing me. Since everything has gone haywire places aren't shipping items as normal. I have a lot of work to do and no parts to do it with 

Does anyone know of a place in America where you can get the 2 pin BI color LED 5mm ? I ordered some and they won't get here until June !!! Or maybe I should ask someone lol 

Have a great day y'all !!


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## traction fan

bl665 said:


> That would make for a pleasant ride ! The horses would sure have a hard time keeping up with the trains. It would make for easy unloading of cars though depending on the location of the station platform hahahaha. Just be careful not be in the way of a package when open car doors!
> 
> Or a good way to get someones lunch money lol
> 
> @gimme30
> Thanks about the Trestle. I still have a few spots on the underside I need to cover. Just in case someone wants to get into detail about it haha. It works well though. The grading came out way better than I had hoped for.
> 
> WASSSSSSSUUUUPPP!! Was the original name for this forum. When I first got back into all this a few months back This is the only forum I could find. I went on to find TrainBoard.com - The Internet's Original and I figured I would make the same thread there. By that time I had already decided what area and time frame I wanted with the layout. I then called it the California wild fire and growth exhibit. For a while I was curious about changing again but I'm confident with it now.
> 
> Yesterday I decided to make a control panel for the neat little switches I will be getting. Waiting on parts is killing me. Since everything has gone haywire places aren't shipping items as normal. I have a lot of work to do and no parts to do it with
> 
> Does anyone know of a place in America where you can get the 2 pin BI color LED 5mm ? I ordered some and they won't get here until June !!! Or maybe I should ask someone lol
> 
> Have a great day y'all !!


bl665;

You should be able to get 5mm bi-color LEDs from www,allelectronics.com I've used them several times. The prices are good, and they deliver promptly. 

Traction Fan 😊


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## bl665

Holy Crap !! I'm glad to post this update. As I'm typing, I am listening for about the 3rd day in a row now, continuous helicopters circling. My neighborhood is literally surrounded by national guard and police!! I wish I had Faster trains...  

Also hope everyone is doing well. The only question I have is what is next people... What other disaster can we find lol

Besides that, I've been circling around and around my layout. I have learned so much about this hobby in the last few weeks I feel I should write a book about it. I feel it would be very very helpful for beginners. I don't know the first thing about writing a book though!

This really took a lot of patience and some of the things I'm about to describe will probably make a few of you experienced modelers laugh. lol Feel free to talk about me at your hobby shop haha I'll take the beating.

Firstly if your in an open garage... DO NOT ! I repeat! DO NOT ! Were flip flops !!! I have about 25 mosquito bites to prove it. I got way distracted and came inside to scratch like a dog.

Upon receiving my new parts (mostly peco code 55 Uni-frog turnouts) I also got the tortoise switch machines along with the extended spring coils that are thicker from fast tracks. My order for the Bi-color LED's came in with the DPDT switch and all the other wiring and fasteners I needed to complete the turnout problem I had been having. It was great I really was excited and couldn't wait to get started 

So... I did .... Since Covid took away my J - O - B 🤣. I've been telling my lady that I'm soooo tired when I get off work from the trains and she has almost slapped me and said "That **** isn't work Sam its a hobby" hahaha

With all the Atlas turnouts removed and a crap load of track work to re-do I went ahead and dove head first into this pool. I started getting all the holes ready for the tortoises installing them pretty slowly. It took a minute to figure out how they really work. Online there are a bunch of videos explaining how to wire them and It took me a few to really get the just of how the actual switch works (along with DPDT interaction) and how the internal switchs work. Especially with the Uni-frog setup. These little tortoise things hold lots of potential. It was quite time consuming also wiring up each turnout and switch machine. I really didn't realize what I was getting into and boy did it feel overwhelming at the time because I was just trying to get back to what I had....... Running Trains ! ..... 

I was so anxious to get back to it I pushed a little more but it definitely paid off. Each tortoise is hooked up to both sides of the turnout to control the frog polarity. I have attached terminal blocks for easy removal if needed and the wires from the terminal blocks go to my switch panel. I was able to install about 3 complete turnouts each day. When I got to the ones higher up in elevation on the layout I soon realized I had to get very creative. Like I mentioned It took me a few videos to get the hang of how these tortoises are installed. Most every video I watched the person had a plywood layout. Meaning not much of a gap between the track and where the tortoise is mounted. The whole operation of these things is tension and bending. One thing I didn't plan for on my layout was coils going through the 3/8 plywood and then through roughly 3" of foam. I never saw any one using the spring coils any further than just the plywood base. 

Once I had a plan of where the turnout went I drilled the hole for the tortoise and proceeded to install it. When I got to point of installing the coil I ran into issues. When going through so much benchwork the coil didn't have enough pressure to move the soldered points of the turnout. I had to be very creative getting this to work. It required bending and drilling a bigger hole for the coil to move. This took FOREVER !!!! It didn't occur to me until when I was almost done that there is a whole above the screw goes to lock in the coil..... I said to myself "awww S####" Never realized the coil stuck in that hole and then the screw holds it down ha. I had it bent over the side of the screw and wondered why the springs kept falling off . A few now I left like that because it was the only way it would work with the higher turnouts. 

N scale turnouts are also soooo small. Thankfully Peco makes some quality stuff. To really get them working good I would solder the wire that comes out for the frog for more durability and also the points where they pivot to hold them in place. When your using the tortoise with these you have to remove the snap clip that holds the points and then drill a hold in the center plastic bead or use the outside holes. That is another thing about peco They give you options on where to put the coil. Badass. I really used all three holes depending on the location of turnouts on my layout. It became a life saver.

The last turnout I had to install was on the bridge. What a Doozy. haha I carefully drilled holes and took extra caution not to ruin the existing stained wood I had put together. Installed the tortoise and wow Wont you know it the bridge was just to high for me to get any action at all with the tortoise. I spent almost half a day just seeing if I could get it to work. No luck!! Break time. wooo...

After reflecting on what I was doing and pounding quite a few provisions I got a hair up my @$$ and came up with a plan. I told myself why not just move the tortoise up higher... How the hell am I going to mount it to the bridge without ruining it ?? Hmmm. So I did just that. I cut out some of the existing supports and made room for it. I drilled some small holes and installed some short screws. It worked! Like butter it worked. Well I had some cosmetic issues now haha A nice sexy bridge with a big green monster hiding underneath it. It was like Scully from Monster Inc was there. 

On to make my switch panel. I thought I could use some plexiglass I had from when I had my fish tanks and the first hole I made... CRACK !!! right down the middle. It basically went over my shoulder and ran into the woods. I found that LEXAN is a wonderful material. The DPDT toggles were not to bad to put together. I had some fun doing it actually. Though it was very time consuming it sure gave me a good hand in wiring. I used the bi-color LEDS Red/Blue which is very pretty. I had to be careful to not get things to hot with the soldering iron. I did burn out a few toggles lol. 

My track, when it originally was done or so I thought, was not level in a lot of places. These new BLI locos especially the SP 602 since it is such a long wheel base. Did not do to hot on my tight little layout. This was for two reasons and the other I'll explain later. The track needed a lot of leveling. Especially where I had some turnouts installed. I used bass wood and other little pieces of balsa to conquer this task. Slowly running the train and seeing where the wheels popped up. Adjusting if necessary. Its Ironic because the smallest radius turn on my layout is the one that has no issues lol. SMH man. I did a good job on that one. haha I understand now why people use plywood. The whole foam thing is nice but man did I have a lot of un-level track because the sheets I cut probably were not that square. Lesson Learned !

Cleaning... Well I thought I was cleaning. I missed some spots though. All these issues I've had with these new locos have been very frustrating. I just bought them and have barely used them. I get my work done as stated above and am ready to do some full on test runs of the track. Just so happens not much has changed except for my internal clock. haha I feel I've aged with this project more than time should allow. I cleaned the track and made sure every connection was solid and I just continued to get these issues. I was done. I had it, and wanted to send the units back and as I have already sent an Atlas loco in recently for repair and also returned another Atlas loco because the motor blew. I was done and felt like I had accomplished nothing.

The next day I had a bright Idea. So bright you could see the light gleaming from my forehead. It was so bright I felt it was a little warm actually. Probably could have fried an egg on it. 

I cleaned the Wheels !!

It was like god came down and said some vodoo to the little toy train. Magically the things ran really well. No stalling on the frogs. No intermittent stalling on straight track. No sound problems. I was a happy camper. I figured hey these Locos are brand new I dont have to clean them. WRONG !!! lol

It was very humbling to know that you should probably just clean the wheels. Just try it you know, it only takes a few seconds and it is very rewarding. This has nothing to do with the loco being a runaway train. Yesterday I was running the SP 602 and I tried to brake it. Well this little sucker kept flying down the track!! Anything I did on the control panel it ignored. Come to find out this a common flaw with the Paragon 3 decoders. But hey at least now its running ! ha

Good Stuff: Now I am finally back to running and operating on the layout. I was even inspired enough to start painting the ground cover and fascia of the layout. I went ahead and did some ballasting. I had to redo a new bridge which I am glad I did because it looks way more authentic. All this in a months time. I'm back on track and can't wait to wrap this thing up!

Enjoy the Photos and Videos Peeps






















^^^^^ My Fav. Wait for the Mini Caboose !!! aha


----------



## traction fan

bl665 said:


> Holy Crap !! I'm glad to post this update. As I'm typing, I am listening for about the 3rd day in a row now, continuous helicopters circling. My neighborhood is literally surrounded by national guard and police!! I wish I had Faster trains...
> 
> Also hope everyone is doing well. The only question I have is what is next people... What other disaster can we find lol
> 
> Besides that, I've been circling around and around my layout. I have learned so much about this hobby in the last few weeks I feel I should write a book about it. I feel it would be very very helpful for beginners. I don't know the first thing about writing a book though!
> 
> This really took a lot of patience and some of the things I'm about to describe will probably make a few of you experienced modelers laugh. lol Feel free to talk about me at your hobby shop haha I'll take the beating.
> 
> Firstly if your in an open garage... DO NOT ! I repeat! DO NOT ! Were flip flops !!! I have about 25 mosquito bites to prove it. I got way distracted and came inside to scratch like a dog.
> 
> Upon receiving my new parts (mostly peco code 55 Uni-frog turnouts) I also got the tortoise switch machines along with the extended spring coils that are thicker from fast tracks. My order for the Bi-color LED's came in with the DPDT switch and all the other wiring and fasteners I needed to complete the turnout problem I had been having. It was great I really was excited and couldn't wait to get started
> 
> So... I did .... Since Covid took away my J - O - B 🤣. I've been telling my lady that I'm soooo tired when I get off work from the trains and she has almost slapped me and said "That **** isn't work Sam its a hobby" hahaha
> 
> With all the Atlas turnouts removed and a crap load of track work to re-do I went ahead and dove head first into this pool. I started getting all the holes ready for the tortoises installing them pretty slowly. It took a minute to figure out how they really work. Online there are a bunch of videos explaining how to wire them and It took me a few to really get the just of how the actual switch works (along with DPDT interaction) and how the internal switchs work. Especially with the Uni-frog setup. These little tortoise things hold lots of potential. It was quite time consuming also wiring up each turnout and switch machine. I really didn't realize what I was getting into and boy did it feel overwhelming at the time because I was just trying to get back to what I had....... Running Trains ! .....
> 
> I was so anxious to get back to it I pushed a little more but it definitely paid off. Each tortoise is hooked up to both sides of the turnout to control the frog polarity. I have attached terminal blocks for easy removal if needed and the wires from the terminal blocks go to my switch panel. I was able to install about 3 complete turnouts each day. When I got to the ones higher up in elevation on the layout I soon realized I had to get very creative. Like I mentioned It took me a few videos to get the hang of how these tortoises are installed. Most every video I watched the person had a plywood layout. Meaning not much of a gap between the track and where the tortoise is mounted. The whole operation of these things is tension and bending. One thing I didn't plan for on my layout was coils going through the 3/8 plywood and then through roughly 3" of foam. I never saw any one using the spring coils any further than just the plywood base.
> 
> Once I had a plan of where the turnout went I drilled the hole for the tortoise and proceeded to install it. When I got to point of installing the coil I ran into issues. When going through so much benchwork the coil didn't have enough pressure to move the soldered points of the turnout. I had to be very creative getting this to work. It required bending and drilling a bigger hole for the coil to move. This took FOREVER !!!! It didn't occur to me until when I was almost done that there is a whole above the screw goes to lock in the coil..... I said to myself "awww S####" Never realized the coil stuck in that hole and then the screw holds it down ha. I had it bent over the side of the screw and wondered why the springs kept falling off . A few now I left like that because it was the only way it would work with the higher turnouts.
> 
> N scale turnouts are also soooo small. Thankfully Peco makes some quality stuff. To really get them working good I would solder the wire that comes out for the frog for more durability and also the points where they pivot to hold them in place. When your using the tortoise with these you have to remove the snap clip that holds the points and then drill a hold in the center plastic bead or use the outside holes. That is another thing about peco They give you options on where to put the coil. Badass. I really used all three holes depending on the location of turnouts on my layout. It became a life saver.
> 
> The last turnout I had to install was on the bridge. What a Doozy. haha I carefully drilled holes and took extra caution not to ruin the existing stained wood I had put together. Installed the tortoise and wow Wont you know it the bridge was just to high for me to get any action at all with the tortoise. I spent almost half a day just seeing if I could get it to work. No luck!! Break time. wooo...
> 
> After reflecting on what I was doing and pounding quite a few provisions I got a hair up my @$$ and came up with a plan. I told myself why not just move the tortoise up higher... How the hell am I going to mount it to the bridge without ruining it ?? Hmmm. So I did just that. I cut out some of the existing supports and made room for it. I drilled some small holes and installed some short screws. It worked! Like butter it worked. Well I had some cosmetic issues now haha A nice sexy bridge with a big green monster hiding underneath it. It was like Scully from Monster Inc was there.
> 
> On to make my switch panel. I thought I could use some plexiglass I had from when I had my fish tanks and the first hole I made... CRACK !!! right down the middle. It basically went over my shoulder and ran into the woods. I found that LEXAN is a wonderful material. The DPDT toggles were not to bad to put together. I had some fun doing it actually. Though it was very time consuming it sure gave me a good hand in wiring. I used the bi-color LEDS Red/Blue which is very pretty. I had to be careful to not get things to hot with the soldering iron. I did burn out a few toggles lol.
> 
> My track, when it originally was done or so I thought, was not level in a lot of places. These new BLI locos especially the SP 602 since it is such a long wheel base. Did not do to hot on my tight little layout. This was for two reasons and the other I'll explain later. The track needed a lot of leveling. Especially where I had some turnouts installed. I used bass wood and other little pieces of balsa to conquer this task. Slowly running the train and seeing where the wheels popped up. Adjusting if necessary. Its Ironic because the smallest radius turn on my layout is the one that has no issues lol. SMH man. I did a good job on that one. haha I understand now why people use plywood. The whole foam thing is nice but man did I have a lot of un-level track because the sheets I cut probably were not that square. Lesson Learned !
> 
> Cleaning... Well I thought I was cleaning. I missed some spots though. All these issues I've had with these new locos have been very frustrating. I just bought them and have barely used them. I get my work done as stated above and am ready to do some full on test runs of the track. Just so happens not much has changed except for my internal clock. haha I feel I've aged with this project more than time should allow. I cleaned the track and made sure every connection was solid and I just continued to get these issues. I was done. I had it, and wanted to send the units back and as I have already sent an Atlas loco in recently for repair and also returned another Atlas loco because the motor blew. I was done and felt like I had accomplished nothing.
> 
> The next day I had a bright Idea. So bright you could see the light gleaming from my forehead. It was so bright I felt it was a little warm actually. Probably could have fried an egg on it.
> 
> I cleaned the Wheels !!
> 
> It was like god came down and said some vodoo to the little toy train. Magically the things ran really well. No stalling on the frogs. No intermittent stalling on straight track. No sound problems. I was a happy camper. I figured hey these Locos are brand new I dont have to clean them. WRONG !!! lol
> 
> It was very humbling to know that you should probably just clean the wheels. Just try it you know, it only takes a few seconds and it is very rewarding. This has nothing to do with the loco being a runaway train. Yesterday I was running the SP 602 and I tried to brake it. Well this little sucker kept flying down the track!! Anything I did on the control panel it ignored. Come to find out this a common flaw with the Paragon 3 decoders. But hey at least now its running ! ha
> 
> Good Stuff: Now I am finally back to running and operating on the layout. I was even inspired enough to start painting the ground cover and fascia of the layout. I went ahead and did some ballasting. I had to redo a new bridge which I am glad I did because it looks way more authentic. All this in a months time. I'm back on track and can't wait to wrap this thing up!
> 
> Enjoy the Photos and Videos Peeps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^ My Fav. Wait for the Mini Caboose !!! aha


bl665;

Why are the police and national guard surrounding your house? Have you been a really bad boy? "Forget" to pay your taxes? What's going on?

I'm glad you got a lot done, and managed to get a train running. Yes, wheels on brand new locos have probably been sitting in the box long enough to get some oxide on them. As you have just learned, it's always best to clean them, even if they're new, and don't look dirty. 
From everything I've heard, the Tortoise is a very nice machine. From your description of your "adventures" in installing them though, I think It would have been much easier to mount the Peco electrical contacts (they just drop over the rod on the Peco switch machine) and install the Peco switch machines, (They just snap directly onto the bottom of the Peco turnouts.) For odd situations, like your turnout on the bridge, Peco also sells a surface-mount switch machine that snaps onto the side of their turnout. 
However, you had a good learning experience, and the Tortoise is a good machine. BTW The foam base many modelers use is the hard, flat, rigid, extruded foam, the kind that's hard to find in CA. That's much more stable, flat & level than the soft, flexible, white Styrofoam bead board I see in your photos. You're right about plywood, It makes a stable base.

regards;

Traction Fan 🙂


----------



## bl665

@traction fan Yes I have been very bad haha. It is because of all the riots. I live in an area where they are having a lot of violent and peacful protest. Ya I'm going to have to invest in that next time. For now it is all good. The videos should be able to be viewed now as well. Cheers


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## bl665

Good evening everyone, I found an update somewhere hanging in my garage..... So I figured I would share ! 
























These lights and wire are extremely small. I found that I broke a few along the way. haha Hope everyone is doing good !


----------

