# Help with DCC



## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

I am new to DCC i have to athern engines that i am waiting on wiring harness to arrive for I want to use software to run my system either RR & Co or jmri.

with using the computer i want to control all switches, Trains, crossing gates ect.. I know there are senors i can put in between the tracks for this and i want to be able to read these from the computer.

BTW other than the basics of DCC i am a noob!

What i am trying to figure out is What do i need between the track and my computer.

if you have links to a good place to buy the items it would be helpful


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Doing what you want to do is not as easy as just installing a few sensors to get it to work. There are several ways to accomplish this, the most advanced and near to complete is Transponding and block detection circuits! you will need to install transponding decoders in all your engines or loco's and you will need to put resistor axles in all of your rolling stock in order for all this to work properly.
JMRI will NOT run your trains for you or do any of the automated switching I think you want.
RR & Co will run your trains for you but be prepared the system costs $$$$ and requires a fair amount of equipment to support it.
What your going to need to start with is a computer interface, that will depend on your system!
What DCC System are you running now?


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

I have NO DCC ATM as i stated i have 2 DC engines awaiting DCC harness would still need the chips.

I am planning on running RR & Co software i want to use block detection. but first thing first I have existing DCC and am starting with a new layout other than wiring the tracks what do i need?

I would like to use digitrax if possible but don't know what to buy please help!!

I dint relies there was a forum just for dcc i reposed there!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Digitrax's Zephyr starter set is definitely a good choice.It is expandable if needed,but for many small to moderately sized layout,it will be sufficient as is.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

To run an automated railroad you will need the following just to get a layout started!
All bold underlined are links to parts.
Your going to need a command station with enough power to run everything!
*Duplex Equipped 8 Amp Super Chief Xtra Set *
Then you will also need some of these to bump it up more.
*DB200+ 8amp Booster*
Then your going to need a few of these for the power.
*PS2012 20 Amp DCC Power Supply*
You will need several of these for power management.
*Digitrax Power Management System-PM42*
You will need to install one of these in each loco or engine.
*SDH164D HO Scale Mobile Decoder*
You will need one of these for every four turnouts that you have.
*DS64 Quad Stationary Decoder*
If your going to do signaling you will need one of these for every four blocks that you have.
*SE8C Signal Decoder*
You will need these to tell where the trains are
*BDL168 LocoNet Occupancy Detector *
*RX4 4-ZoneTransponding Receiver Add-on for BDL Series Detectors *
*RD2 Remote Sensing Diodes*
You will need one of these to interface the computer system.
*PR3 SoundFX Decoder Programmer*
*PS14 Power Supply*
you will also need these to interface the loconet system
*Digitrax LocoNet Repeater Module LNRP*
*PS14 Power Supply*
Then you will need this to run it all.
*TrainController™ *Gold

In total your looking at about $4679.95 in initial electronic equipment to do it, you will also need the computer, trains, rail cars, buildings, scenery, rails, turnouts, signals, lighting, bench work and a few wires.
Any other questions please ask!


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

NIMT said:


> In total your looking at about $4679.95 in initial electronic equipment to do it,


Wow .....that's a number that gives one pause...regardless of economic status! NIMT is correct though...the level of automation you want will require a lot of hardware to support it.

Brakeman Jake mentions starting with a Zepher...and I think that's a good way to get your feet wet. I started with the mid-priced Digitrax system and wish I'd started with Zepher....simiply because the system I have doesn't read back info from the locomotives. (DB150) control station. I'll be upgrading that soon.

JMRI is good for programming decoders and such. Its fairly easy to use. For an interface you'll need 1 of 2 methods:
1. PC with a serial port and the LocoNet to Serial converter (if you can find it)
2. PC with USB and the LocoNet to USB converter.

The PC for JMRI doesn't need to be too heavy-duty...so if you have an old laptop or desktop machine hanging around with nothing to do you could dedicate it to the task. (I don't know what you'll need for an automation system).

Just my 2 cents!

Jim


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

so i need a full set like Duplex Equipped 8 Amp Super Chief Xtra Set even tho my computer will be doing the work the hand held dose?


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

britblad said:


> so i need a full set like Duplex Equipped 8 Amp Super Chief Xtra Set even tho my computer will be doing the work the hand held dose?


YES...this is true for all systems. The controller/boosters for all these systems store all the info that you're computer is accessing, and they do the translation to LocoNet.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

manchesterjim i did relies it wasn't gonna be cheep but your right maybe i should start small and work my way up controlling my RR has been a dream since i built my first PC way back when 8088's were popular and we ran DC.

I am glad someone posted the big picture for me i thought i needed the ms100 to connect from the computer to the track/trains now i have a guide of sorts to go buy!

OK so if i go with the Digitrax's Zephyr is that all i need to start other than the DCC trains them self's?


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

britblad said:


> OK so if i go with the Digitrax's Zephyr is that all i need to start other than the DCC trains them self's?


This will get you the local control (not PC remote) and the ability to add the PC later (when you've gotten familiar with DCC). And yes, you'll need to add decoders to your locos, but that will get you going.

The Zepher is a nice controller. It has the rotary knob style, similar to our older DC systems and it will read-back what is programmed in the locomotive decoders.

A good place to get "schooled" is via the documentation on Digitrax website. Another really good place is "Tony's Trains website


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank for all your input you heave helped me alot!


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

Merged and cleaned up the topic for you

hi and welcome.

while that $ figure is somewhat inflated "what to get" is the most incorrect question here. the answer at this point is "Don't spend a dime!!!" because it will be a waste. you know there will be spending involved, to maximize your wallet capability you need to avoid getting unneeded components. and for that you will need to plan everything our prior to making any purchase, or at least have a good idea why do you need each component. obviously one can get into planning block and never get out of it to lay rail, you need to start somewhere , butd IMHO first steps do not have to involve DCC at all. you never mentioned your experience level BTW.

do you have room and rail plan to fit? is it good plan for operating or will you get bored or have engines trapped? does block allocation as marked makes operational sence? and many many more. and then there is signalling, a separate hobby all in it self.

for now 
Zephyr is not the only solution. there are other manufacturers then digitrax (i.e NCE). there are non-digitrax yet loconet compatible devices (i.e team digital) for detection and command. which is answering your needs better?

. post your layout idea, operation ideas, equipment ideas. we are always be happy to discuss and follow yet another exciting build. good luck!


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

tankist said:


> Merged and cleaned up the topic for you
> 
> hi and welcome.
> 
> ...


Since you asked i will answer these questions first! I have build DC layouts before never messed with DCC. ATM I am building a 4x8 board making it into to modules 4x4 each.

I kinda got a head of my self with wanting to jump in to the deep end of DCC because i knew i could control dcc with my computer and i'm a big computer person.

If you give me some links to these other controllers and stuff i would be happy to look at them. The reason i picked digitrax is my local train store guy rec-amend it. it was just a starting point. But like i said give me links i will look at it.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

OK I was going to answer the other thread but now that it is all here I can answer it here. 

Digitrax is my personal preferance the Zephyr Extra and Super Chief sets both have full command stations and they both will do great with computer interface. Check them out at www.digitrax.com

To use them with computer interface you will need either a PR3 or locobuffer (PR3 from Digitrax and the locobuffer from http://www.rr-cirkits.com/ )

To use the computer interface you will need JMRI or another computer/DCC software interface. For remote switch control you will need stationary decoders and some type of switch motor to activate the switches. slow motion switch motors take 1 channel of a stationary decoder but a relay type switch motor takes 2 channels. For signaling and block detection you will need a block occupency detector (BOD) and have it set up to talk to the computer interface.

Massey


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

Massey said:


> OK I was going to answer the other thread but now that it is all here I can answer it here.
> 
> Digitrax is my personal preferance the Zephyr Extra and Super Chief sets both have full command stations and they both will do great with computer interface. Check them out at www.digitrax.com


I am leaning towards the Zephyr mainly because there seems to be so much info out there about digitrax that and they were the first ones that gave me a strait answer when i called and asked questions!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Digitrax customer service is great with the couple of times I have had to call them. They even replaced a decoder for me that got fried when I crossed from DCC to DC on accident. 

I have also found that Digitrax seems to have thought out their system a little better. This is good as there is a module for just about anything you want to do. NCE seems not as well thought out but their system is more user friendly to the DIY people that want to build their own modules.

Massey


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

Massey said:


> slow motion switch motors take 1 channel of a stationary decoder but a relay type switch motor takes 2 channels.


DS64 decoder handles both relay and slow motion in same way - one address each. and then there is servo + servo-board solution you leave out. takes care of these ungodly expensive tortoises for those who have to have slow motion machines. 



> I have also found that Digitrax seems to have thought out their system a little better.


controller handle on zephyr has absolute position relative to commanded speed - set engine A to crawl, switch to engine B to set mainline speed, switch to engine A , ... BAM! mad jump. the workaround is tedious and this is a show stopper for me. output to user in form of seven segments displays was outdated even back when it was released, and it is 2012 already. in that regard NCE is ahead.

digitrax block detectors are still rectifier based - drops voltage. perhaps minor, but still why when team digital offers BlocD8 that is fully loconet compatible

PS
digitrax does have bunch of good things behind them ie loconet (that others can tap into),the excellent mobile (non-sound) and stationary decoders, they are the only ones to offer transponding.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

tankist said:


> controller handle on zephyr has absolute position relative to commanded speed - set engine A to crawl, switch to engine B to set mainline speed, switch to engine A , ... BAM! mad jump. the workaround is tedious and this is a show stopper for me. output to user in form of seven segments displays was outdated even back when it was released, and it is 2012 already. in that regard NCE is ahead.


Depending on how much money i have to spend i may take a step up on controller or if people suggest something better (with a link) i may consider it


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

britblad,
I think I made my point that the question that you asked could have a big answer! and you got it!
The ability to control your trains by way of computer can be done in steps to not only make it manageable but also understandable too!
Your talking a small layout to start with so a Digitrax Zepher Xtra System would be a great way to start. It has the ability to expand as you expand, you can add controllers, boosters, and all of Digitrax other system componets among others system manufactures componets on to it.
Get a PR3 and use JMRI #1 because it's free and #2 because it's good!
JMRI will give you a huge amount of control right from the start.
Tankist has some great write ups on JMRI and it's workings Here, and Here! 
I have been using JMRI for I would say 10 years...I think...It's great and keeps improving all the time!


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

I am sure one i learn how to use it it will work fine till i get into doing more advanced stuff.

I just found more video's on RR & Co that's why i was thinking of using that but it never hurts to try other stuff!


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

britblad said:


> Depending on how much money i have to spend i may take a step up on controller or if people suggest something better (with a link) i may consider it


don't think of it in terms of better or worse. there are several systems on market, each has its own characteristics, strong and weak sides. since we are in US and you want computer control at some point your choice is really between 2: zephyr and NCE powercab (cost roughly the same). i see no point going higher tier (chiefs and such) for 4x8 layout. examine both and make your decision. good luck


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

tankist said:


> don't think of it in terms of better or worse. there are several systems on market, each has its own characteristics, strong and weak sides. since we are in US and you want computer control at some point your choice is really between 2: zephyr and NCE powercab (cost roughly the same). i see no point going higher tier (chiefs and such) for 4x8 layout. examine both and make your decision. good luck


I took a look at the NCE powercab not a bad looking system no nobs to turn so no funky acceleration i would guess since each train has it set separately. I'll have to do some more searching of pros and cons on both but thanks for the info!


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

britblad said:


> I'll have to do some more searching of pros and cons on both but thanks for the info!


Hi again......one thing that occurs to me is that you might look for a train show in your area and pay it a visit. They usually have different clubs with different control systems that you can take a look at.

If you explain to them that you're evaluating control systems, some show-goers will let you operate their equipment so that you can get a "feel" for it. Almost all of them will be happy to share the opinions and observations of the systems.

Jim


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

I plan to join our local Model RR club here but the meetings aren't till the end of the month but i have an idea of the money i need to have and with my job it may take a while to save up 200 bucks


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