# Decoder Pro question....



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Thanks for the help so far,I've been able to learn some of the basics of Decoder Pro,like reading CVs from a loco sitting on the track,reading adress,identifying decoders,etc...and then how to save these infos to the roster list.

However,there's a specific action that I'd like to be able to perform and whatever tinkering with DP's different commands,it still eludes me...so my question is..."how can I have all the CVs from a specific rostered locomotive "on screen" so that I can compare them with let's say the manufacturer's suggested CVs?That would be nice when searching for a possible glitch and I believe DP can do just that if I ever find how to.Can these numbers be extracted from the roster file or do I have to set the loco on track and read CVs one at a time?That wouldn't be much faster than reading them with my DCC set.

So far so good though...I've found how to print the roster list and probably I could send them if I attempted to but still can't see those darn CVs.Thanks.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

OH this one's easy open the program twice and shrink the screen to have the page, open one with the roster of what you want to compare. Open second one and read the decoder that you need to compare to the roster.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Sean...great info as always...thanks.However,it's not what I'm trying to do,and then,may be that what I'm trying to do is not possible....

What I'd like is to sit a loco on prog. track,have DP read all the CVs and then display them all on one on-screen page that I could scroll down and compare with the previously printed manufacturers suggested default CV values to determine where a potential glitch has occured.It would be even better if it was possible to do the same from the roster's stored datas without re-installing the loco on the prog. track.

I have a loco that obviously has one or more fouled up CVs (running but sounds are messed up,memory loss?).I could simply read and rewrite the CVs one by one with either DP or my DCC set,but I also like to see and understand what happened.BTW,I noticed that when I "rostered" this loco,DP seemed to have a hard time reading the CVs.The loco is an Athearn N scale MRC equipped Challenger.


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## Rangerover (Feb 8, 2012)

Jake I don't think Decoder Pro can read MRC decoders and the only way that I know to program them is in OPS mode the way I understand it. After reading on other forums I stay away from MRC anything, thought I would try one of their sound decoders, but I got warned big time about them, they don't seem too friendly or of decent quality(the decoders), not the posters.
Jim


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## Rangerover (Feb 8, 2012)

Jake your other question about being able to read the factory default cv's and compare them to the changes you make, if I'm correct in your question.

1-one way I can see doing that would be to print out the page before you make the changes from factory default. Once you write the changes on the sheet, decoder pro "overwrites" the factory default.

2-another way you can do it is in the "notes" box in the roster file. Either go to the decoder site and copy the factory default cv's and paste into the roster file notes box.
Or you can scan, if you have a scanner installed on your computer, the cv's from your installation instructions you got when you bought the decoder or the manual from the loco you received from a factory installed decoder loco. Save the scan to a file in documents or desk top and copy and paste to the "notes" box in the roster file for that loco.

3-one more way is to put the loco on the program track under "new entry" such as 2543 (road number, or loco description such as "factory default") and save the factory installed cv's. Don't change anything on this one!

Leave the loco on the track. Now hit "new entry" again and 2543 (same road number, change description such as "reprogrammed cv's"). Then you should be able to follow Sean's instructions and bring up both pages on the screen. Should work! Jim


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Jim...I'm aware of the fact that MRC decoders are crappy to say the least as I already have one that turned sour on me so far (one out of three) and I'm planning to replace them with better sound decoders when they become available and when my budget allows it too.For the moment,I try to save the remaining ones by running them occasionally (once a year at the club,personal layout in construction now) for short moments.I've discovered that they heat up so don't allow them too long,hoping they'll last until I'm ready for replacement.

I was thinking about TSU750s,but they too are pretty hot runners(failure rate???).So it seems that an HO designed sound decoder would be a solution but don't know of one that would fit in the N scale tenders.

MRC decoders are junk but the locos are jewels.It was the only way I could set hands on these a few years back.The newer ones have Tsunami's but,as I said,I'm not sold to the idea either.


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## Rangerover (Feb 8, 2012)

I like MTH steam loco's for their detail, but it's from what I read, not what I actually know from experience, that they too are finicky with any other DCC system's. Same as MRC I have no hands on experience with them. I guess they fall in the same category as Bachmann with most Model Railroaders.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

It just seems that Decoder Pro wasn't designed for what I'd like to have.It can effectively read,store and rewrite decoder CVs...that I've figured out how to do and the software is an absolute wonder in the matter.

What I'd like it to do is in fact simple...have DP read a decoder's actually stored CVs (wether defaults or rewritten) and show them to me all together on screen so that I can compare them with a printed data (manufacturer's suggested CV values),in this case Athearn's instruction book that came with the loco.This way I could go directly to the messed CVs and correct them without having to read them all one by one.

Since this loco is already stored in the roster's list,I though DP would let me see the datas stored in the roster without having the loco on the prog. track but it seems it's not what it's creators had in mind.


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## Rangerover (Feb 8, 2012)

No I don't know how to do that either, maybe Sean will know if you can do that or not! Sorry I misunderstood what you were trying to do!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Rangerover,don't be sorry...you've been a big help.Decoder Pro has so many functions one can use that learning to use them all isn't a five minutes thing.

My thinking is a result of my mechanic's career...come up with a thorough diagnosis then only you can come up with the proper cure.So it was logical to me that being able to read the CVs and determining where the glitch has occured would be the first step to an appropriate repair.

Decoder Pro can indeed read them all in one move but will not show them other than one at a time,just like my DT400.It was designed to programm decoders with preset CVs in one single operation and it does it fine.However,when you do "repair" a messed up decoder this way,it goes right but you have no idea wich CVs you've altered unless you've spent the time to read them one by one before you press the "write all sheets" icon.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Jake, let me see if I got this right.
First have printout in hand of stock or factory or desired CV.
Place loco on track and click read all go to CV tab and read CV's.

Second option Place loco on track and Click on CV tab this will bring up new command on bottom called compare full sheet, Input all the factory CV's in the value spots then click Compare full sheet, that will tell you if any CV's don't match.
You can also use this to check to see if a rostered unit has " lost is programming ".

MRC sound decoders have always had a problem with read back and I've always had to program them blindly, And if you do get a read back I wouldn't believe what you are reading as being actually what is programmed into the decoder, Ive gotten a lot of false readings.
Soundtraxx decoders have almost the same problem but with a programming track booster you can read them.
As far as the TSU-750 running "Hot" I had heard that they did that with some of the older speakers because the actual ohm value of the speakers were wrong. I'll get A new TSU-750 and test it out for you! I can sell the TSU-750 for about the same price as the MRC and they are a ton better!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Sean...while option one is nearly what I was looking for,option two goes a good leap further so I'll likely try this one first.I suppose that if I type the factory default in the said value spots,I can then name them "3977 defaults" and have Decoder Pro stock them so that I can rewrite them to that darn loco's decoder,should it lose its memory again.

I already own two TSU 750 decoders wich I've had mishaps with.One was installed in a loco that went just fine until I tried creeping speed...the loco then went dead.I later found out that the motor was shorted that only showed when running very slow.So the TSU 750 has sound but no motor power any more,like a burned fuse within.I'll have to send it to Soundtraxx sometime.

The second one ran fine for a while until for some unknown reason I lost all communication with it.It lights up with track power,I suspect I messed a CV when I tried to dial in the new adress.Decoder Pro should enable me to find what happened when I'm more proficient with it.I've put both TSU's aside then and haven't tried anything since.

There were no speakers that came with them but I bought the suggested ones from Soundtraxx.If they aren't right,wich ones are?And where can I find the connectors that match the MRC decoders?Can the original MRC speakers be used with the TSU's?Thanks.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

If you got the speakers recently they are probably ok.
I wouldn't use the MRC ones for two reasons, they have horrible sound quality, and I'm not sure they are 8 ohms. Just let me know when you need them and what size and I'll get them for you cheap!


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Sean,the speakers I have are Soundtraxx offerings that have been purchased about two years ago.Right now,they're stored somewhere in my railroad stuff and when I set my hands on them,I'll let you know what they in fact are.

And you guessed it right about MRC decoders...I had thought that Decoder Pro had read them but when I finally was able to read them myself,I found that it hasn't read them.Most CVs show 0 as stored data and those wich aren't zeros have nonsense numbers.So I'll do the same as you (blind programming) since investing in prog. track booster doesn't make sense to me...I'll eventually replace these MRC decoders anyway.

BTW...what's the purpose of the power supply for the PR3?I've tried it on USB alone and don't see any change.Could this be for an internal booster?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Jake, The power input on the PR3 is for programming sound files into decoders. So when doing regular CV programing you don't need it.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Sean...I have two 1"X1/2" and one 1 3/8"X5/8 oval speakers,all three are 8 ohms/1 watt.

I've found that Soundtraxx are now offering a new decoder model (TSU-4664N) specially designed for the Athearn's N scale Challenger (likely the Big Boy too I guess).It is a "plug&play" type (that I was waiting for) so I'll likely try a pair of them in a near future.Now they say the only soldering is for linking it to the existing MRC speaker (don't know ohms/watt) wich you don't recommend.So I'll have to open the tender to determine what size is required and let you know.I'll give myself the extra work and cost,want them to sound right.

I would also like to add sound to my Cabforward's but don't want to mess with the loco's original wiring.I'd like to find male 8 pin sockets that I could set my TSU-750's with.The tenders are ready for speakers wich is nice but don't want a hard wire job for these locos.
Why the locos have ten pin sockets?Search me.....the actual decoders (TCS DP2X) use only eight.

There's only one model train supplier left here (Quebec city) and although he's good at finding items,his prices are hefty and he's of no help when problems arise.So buying from you is definitely an appealing option,I buy from U.S. all the time anyway.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

The 10 pin socket is 8 pin for the decoder and 2 pins for the speaker.
I can supply you with the 8 pin plugs and the 2 pin plugs for the speaker too if you need them.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Tinkering with Decoder Pro,I tried reading CVs from a TSU-750 and I get the "no loco aknowledge" note.Do I need a prog.track booster for these too?Any other way around?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Sadly enough I do believe you have to have the booster to read them! I'm working on that right problem right now.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

It's me again...how can I create a CV list that I could store in my roster under a generic name (like DEFAULT 1) without actually reading them from a loco?I've found how to read,change,write and store to roster but I'd like to type a list of CVs,store them,so that I could simply write them to the loco after decoder install...sort of master CV set that you don't need to have the decoder on hand to create.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Humm...well...I'm back at tinkering with CVs again but with new tools...first,a better understanding of how CVs affect loco performance though not a DCC guru in any extent though.Then,I've received a programming track booster (Soundtraxx PTB-100) and a pair of TSU-4664N decoders so now I have something to keep me busy for a few hours of fun...yes...fun...litterally.

First step...have the booster set to operate...that was easy.

Then the second step...install a TSU4664N in my N scale Challenger.If one uses the original MRC speaker,it's a half hour job.A little longer if you swap the speaker like I did but still,an easy task.

Then came the exciting part...trying to read CV's from a new decoder with a new device.What can go wrong?Well,in the beginnig something was wrong and I have no clue as to what was wrong.May be you guys can tell me...here goes...

I set the loco on the prog.track then turned PR3/booster combo "on"...so far all seems OK.Then I pressed "read all sheets".Decoder Pro sarted reading right away and the loco reacted to this with crisp "tic" sounds and creeped a bit forward for each CV.I suppose this is normal.

This kept on through reading the basic CVs (adress,motor control,speed table,etc),each CV reading taking 5-6 seconds.Then the process suddently slowed down,each CV taking 30-40 sec. to a minute to read and Decoder Pro started to pop the warning "no aknowledge from loco" very often.

So I stopped the reading,removed the loco from the track then cleaned the track very thoroughly,thinking it might be the problem then re-started the whole process.Cleaning the track wasn't the cure as I got the same results with the second try.It took Decoder Pro over an hour to read all the CVs.

I was really confused but decided to go ahead with my initial plan...change the CVs I felt weren't right,confident that I couldn't destroy the decoder anyway.Worst case,I could reset it.And so I did and then press "write all sheets".To my surprise,writing took only a few minutes,with the loco ticking and creeping at each CV.

I was wondering if reading would be as long as before but such wasn't the case...this time Decoder Pro read all CVs in about 5-6 minutes and I could confirm that the decoder had accepted all the changes.

Soooo...what did I do right?Did I unlock some preset feature?Some CVs were strange,could it be that the decoder was fowled up?Original CV29 was 2,I set it at 50.This is a mistery to me.What do you guys think?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I have had the same things happen to me. I think it's because some of the CV's are left in a unknown state from the factory.
I have gotten into the habit of just writing what I want the decoder to do then I read to verify.
You could also just do a factory reset on any new decoders to make sure they are set to factory defaults.
When you program all the sheets it will reset any miss programmed CV's.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Well well...so far so good.Loco has been set on track today for preliminary testing.Not perfect yet but already better than the original MRC setup.Will only need minor speed control adjustments and have the different sound levels adjusted to be proportional to eachother...whistle is too low while bell is too high...and some other sounds are barely audible.But this engine is already impressive as it is...I'm very happy so far.Just having the dynamo fire up when turning the lights on is something to be heard......


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