# Bullfrog snot..



## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

I was thinking about buying some bullfrog snot, but I really only need it for one locomotive.

Will the jar keep for a while? or will I find it dried up in two months?

Or if someone has some they might lend me.. Ship it to me, and I'll ship it back with 5$ or whatever the shipping cost for you was.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The shelf life is pretty short once it is opened. I'd guess 9 months to a year.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

It says you can mix it with water to loosen it up, so maybe you just keep adding a little water to extend it?

Or perhaps if someone wants to share they can just put a scoop in a ziploc so you don't need to send it back.

ADDED: Or, you can put the jar inside a ziploc filled with water and the humid environment will extend the shelf life.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

If you were diligent about opening it every few months and adding water, that would probably work. Unfortunately, both the jars i had were completely dried up.

The owner of my LHS suggested duct tape around the lid. I may try that next time.


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

I was just wondering. I have never used the stuff before never had to. But has anyone ever tried to freeze it?? If you did how did it work after it had been frozen. Just A thought.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

I don't know anything about this product. 

However, in case this applies (it might not) do as I do for POR paint that cures in presence of moisture: never open the container. 

Poke a hole in the lid and immediately reseal with tape. When more is needed, poke through the tape and retape again. 

I have partially used cans of POR paint that are years old and still viable; opening a can of POR usually makes it unusable in a couple of weeks.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

Nikola said:


> I don't know anything about this product.
> 
> However, in case this applies (it might not) do as I do for POR paint that cures in presence of moisture: never open the container.
> 
> ...


that there is pretty smart. I will try this for sure.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

IMO, it's crap. I'd use real traction tires, but maybe that's just me.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I used it on two locomotives about six years ago. When it was first being introduced, the proprietor asked if anyone would like to try some limited supply of free samples. I was one of those asking because I wanted to help, but also to potentially solve a problem with one engine. I received it, applied it, and found that it's actually quite nifty. I did the two applications, two locomotives, about six months apart. I didn't find that the jar had dried appreciably. That was about five years ago, and I have not had occasion to open the jar again. I don't know what I will find. I should open it for giggles and report back. Wait...will report tomorrow if I can find it...I'm in the middle of a messy new layout build, just getting to trackwork.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It will be totally dried out. Mine dried out in a few months to an unusable state.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It dries up in a year or so and I never tried water or minerals spirits or anything to loosen it. Now I use the plastic dip made for coating handles of pliers and all. Seems to be the same stuff. Works okay.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> It dries up in a year or so and I never tried water or minerals spirits or anything to loosen it. Now I use the plastic dip made for coating handles of pliers and all. Seems to be the same stuff. Works okay.[
> That's interesting Lee, I have a can at work, it was recommended by one of our roofing contractors for roof top unit bases that was leaking. I have one locomotive I've had problems with, and it doesn't have the milled channels for traction tires, so I may give the Flex Seal a try. Not sure if this is the same product you're referring to, but one of the revommended applications is for grip handles on tools.
> Don


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Mine arrived dryer out and was unusable upon delivery. Don't waste your money.


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## mjrfd99 (Jan 5, 2016)

If your drivers are slipping - you need more drivers on the rails. 
AKA-- another new engine


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> Mine arrived dryer out and was unusable upon delivery. Don't waste your money.


See, in my mind this would not be a waste of money. There is no reputable vendor in the world who would not make this right, without you paying another cent.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I agree. I believe Walthers now markets this product. It has been available for about eight years already. I would call Walthers or the proprietor and simply state your experience. I don't see why it wouldn't be in his best interest to make sure you are a supporter, and not a decrier, of the product.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

CTValleyRR said:


> See, in my mind this would not be a waste of money. There is no reputable vendor in the world who would not make this right, without you paying another cent.


While this is certainly true, you shouldn't have to chase it down like that.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> While this is certainly true, you shouldn't have to chase it down like that.


Defective happens. All it usually takes is a quick phone call or e-mail, so it's hardly "chasing it down". For me, the measure of a vendor or supplier is not in never having a problem, but in how fast and easily they make it right. If i condemned every company or product I ever had a lick of trouble with, I'd be out of places to get stuff.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Not to deviate too much but this is where I am going to have some issues on this forum. 

I am new to the hobby. One of my big disappointments about the O Scale magazines is they assume their readers are all experts. 

So, I saw the ad for Bull Frog Snot in one of the magazines and so I click on this thread here, and I have to ask:

1. What is Bull Frog Snot and why would an O Scale modeler need it?


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Bryan Moran said:


> Not to deviate too much but this is where I am going to have some issues on this forum.
> 
> I am new to the hobby. One of my big disappointments about the O Scale magazines is they assume their readers are all experts.
> 
> ...


Bryan, Bullfrog snot is a goop that helps locomotives improve traction on inclines or when pulling long trains.

But, to your minor complaint about the forum or magazines, I think there is some due diligence required on the part of the reader to research topics. I didn't know what the stuff was either but with a quick google search I found the manufacturers website and youtube videos about how to use it.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bullfrog snot

If you asked a question and identify your skill level, people will tailor their reply to your level.... just look at all the noob topics I've started.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> ...
> 
> 1. What is Bull Frog Snot and why would an O Scale modeler need it?


First, good for you for asking. As the previous gentleman suggests, we each are responsible for carving our path in life.

Secondly, regardless of the scale, whether we are talking about real locomotives or our scale ones, they have a distinct problem that is the proverbial curse and blessing all at once: steel tires on steel rails is wonderfully efficient due to the low deformity of both surfaces and very low friction coefficient. It takes less than one horsepower to get a properly maintained rail car under way on level track for this very reason. The curse part comes from the slippery nature of steel on steel. Unless the item providing tractive effort is exceedingly heavy, it will spin on the rails if it provides too much power to the rails. So, locomotives are heavy, both for durability, to handle the horsepower and forces, and to provide all the possible traction during movement.

The problem gets much worse with grades. Horsepower = Tractive Effort X Speed. A locomotive must generate just over three times (X3) the horsepower on a 0.5% grade to maintain the same track speed as it does on level track, and each 0.5% increment in grade requires the same greater horsepower. There comes a time, with sufficient trailing tonnage, the desire to slow as little as possible, and with a grade nearing 1.5-2%, that the locomotive's adhesion on the rails will be overcome by the horsepower it is applying at the tire rims, and it will simply start to grind away at the rails...and slowing as it does this.

Why do we use traction tires and Bull Frog Snot? Simply, to get over this problem with physics that transcends the scales we have, and then so that we can continue to enjoy our toys on the sharp curves and rather steep grades we have to incorporate in the confined spaces we have with the grand track plans we insist upon implementing. IOW, like everything about the hobby, it's a compromise.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

I just thought it was goop to help with traction.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bryan Moran said:


> Not to deviate too much but this is where I am going to have some issues on this forum.
> 
> I am new to the hobby. One of my big disappointments about the O Scale magazines is they assume their readers are all experts.
> 
> ...


Well, everyone is going to have a learning curve. The flip side is, once you have invested the effort to come up that learning curve yourself, how tolerant will you be of those who haven't, or of periodicals catering to those folks?

For myself, I'd prefer that newbies ask questions when they don't understand, and have references -- except those intentionally aimed at beginners -- take a little more advanced route.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

mesenteria

Thank you for the response. That adds to my understanding and mirrors what I am facing. 

I have a basement room, cleared out on one side. Wife gets the other side. I would estimate my layout will be 7 feet x 16 feet (long). 

I figured the way to get more was to go up, as you suggest (O Scale). 

To others, yes, I could have checked out their website. But, YOUR answers are better then theirs. 2nd, I saw their ads in the magazines I buy, but it mentions nothing about what it does. Just says you need it. 

I appreciate that I am new, but detest the phrase "newbie" "noob' etc. I am an expert in another hobby, and still get PM's and posts which I answer a few times a week (used to be 15-20 per week). 

Forums are tough for new members, new to that hobby. That's why I started with the magazines. I am very disappointed with the magazines, but I suppose a Frog Snot thread is no place to go with that comment. 

Thanks for the input from everyone.


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

Sorry for thread necromancy, but how well does it work? I'm eyeing the possibility of a helix on a layout and worried that it'll end up with too sharp a grade, even with a wide turn radius.

Back when I last had a layout, a Bachmann locomotive I owned had traction tires on one axle, but I seem to recall the Kato one I had did not. Everything worked with the few cars I owned, but I couldn't say how steep my meaningless grade was.

I'm assuming that locomotives with few contact wheels (0-6-0s, three axle tenders, etc) will be best left as they are, due to loss of electrical conductivity.


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## ExONRcarman (Feb 7, 2017)

Still a newbie....Bullfrog snot??????A better name could not be found? i dont dare type bullfrog snot in my search engine lol


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

ExONRcarman said:


> Still a newbie....Bullfrog snot??????A better name could not be found? i dont dare type bullfrog snot in my search engine lol


I've seen ads for it in Model Railroader, and I was able to determine what it would be, but I figured I should ask around before I ordered any. I didn't think it would be so expensive, either. >.>

But, if it's any good, and my locomotives don't want to climb that helix, I might order some.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

It works well for what it does, with the caveat that it has an extremely short shelf life once opened.

For REPLACING traction tires without stripping the loco down -- works great.

For ADDING traction tires to wheels not designed for them? It works fine too... but your assumption is correct, you have to be careful not to affect the loco's power pickup.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

There's also been discussion recently on converting the tender wheels to pickups, which can help considerably on the shorter steamers, and then allows for the option of notching a couple of the driver wheels for the traction bands. I've been considering giving this a shot on an 0-6-0 I have.


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

Shdwdrgn said:


> There's also been discussion recently on converting the tender wheels to pickups, which can help considerably on the shorter steamers, and then allows for the option of notching a couple of the driver wheels for the traction bands. I've been considering giving this a shot on an 0-6-0 I have.


I'm not terribly worried about doing this on wee little switchers, at least not yet. I don't expect they'll be pulling trains up my helix all that often.


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

I fixed up a little 4X8 figure 8 O gauge tubular track for my grandson to have at home. The crossover goes up and over. I gave him a Lionel F3 loco from a starter passenger set, the Super Chief, and 8 old Lionel gondolas which he loads with Matchbox cars. Run with a CW80 transformer.

Problem is he likes to run them fast and the cars are heavy with the Mtchbox car loads and he kept losing traction tires. I thought on the problem for a while and noticed that with the traction tires gone the grooved wheel alone threw off the geometry of the locomotive, and that was the primary reason he lost traction. So I knew I needed to fill those grooves with something. Not liking any of the commercially available substitutes for traction tires, and not liking to pay $1 each for new traction tires, I came up with a solution.

I turned the loco on it's top and ran the wheels at slow speed, like you would if you were putting on the Bullfrog snot. But instead I mixed up a little JB Weld and carefully, so as not to put on too much, applied it to the slowly running traction wheels. I let them run until the JB Weld set up. Ended up with a perfectly round fill of the grooves, and the geometry is again correct.

He's been running the train now for over a year and no problems; the JB Weld hasn't worn off or cracked. It pulls about as good as traction tires and goes up and over the crossover just fine.

This solution obviously isn't for everyone, and I wouldn't do it to an expensive or highly collectible locomotive, but it sure solved our problem.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

This has gotten me thinking about my own little 0-4-0 switcher that has all the power pickup in the driver wheels. You can't do traction wheels without affecting the power, but it *needs* something to help traction because hey, it's only got FOUR wheels on the rail.

I did a little digging for something I thought I had heard of before and hit the jackpot... Conductive silicon that you can make yourself! Now the basis of this appears to be graphite and corn starch mixed together in common silicon. The application in the link above is for making your own tablet stylus, so there's no indication of how rigid this mixture would be for our purposes, but it seems like it might be a good starting point for some experimentation?

My 0-4-0 is probably a 70's model. I picked it up off ebay without even a tender, but I've been using it for experimenting with the electronics. The thing has hefty pizza-cutter wheels yet somehow manages to run on my code-70 HO track. I'm thinking it might be possible to file one or two shallow V-slots in one wheel and try some of this stuff. Will definitely have to add it to my list. If it holds together for long-term use, the silicon should provide pretty decent traction, and the graphite means you can still pick up power through the wheel. What more could you ask for?


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I have used Bullfrog Snot on one or two of my engines and it worked great. It had been sitting a while when a friend called me and told me his traction tires came off. I told him to bring it over and I would put some Snot on it. It had dried out a little, but I put some warm water in it and stirred until it came back. Then I applied it to his wheels (he want all of them done) and it worked great and he said there are no problem's.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I have also heard that if you store the bottle upside down, it helps to preserve the shelf life, presumably by sealing the cap better.


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

CTValleyRR said:


> I have also heard that if you store the bottle upside down, it helps to preserve the shelf life, presumably by sealing the cap better.


It could also be that, by doing that, you put the dry skin on the bottom of the container.


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## mtfrizzell (Jan 1, 2016)

bewhole said:


> I was just wondering. I have never used the stuff before never had to. But has anyone ever tried to freeze it?? If you did how did it work after it had been frozen. Just A thought.








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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

No sure I would want that stuff in a freezer with edible food.


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