# New guy with a lot of questions



## Broncobob1 (May 6, 2018)

Hi everyone, new to the forum and I have a lot of questions, much of which have probably been asked before,so here goes. I have about 115 foot of Bachman e-z track that will run around my entire garage just below the ceiling .it will sit on a wooden shelf except it will run approximately 25 feet on a suspension bridge that I built Down the middle of the garage. I was given a nce power cab 
To use as my command station. I am only going to run one loco at a time . I know , it sounds boring but it will fascinate me just to watch it roll on such a large set up. I have dcc locos and my biggest problem is understanding how to run the power so it’s even around such a long stretch of track. For now it will be some what of a no frills set up, but I am worried about a good and steady source of power without interruption. I am open to all and any suggestions. I just want to get the best setup possible, thanks for letting me whine!


----------



## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Use a large-gauge power feed wire pair to distribute the juice. You would want at least 16awg, but for the length of your runs you may want to use 14awg or even 12awg (commonly used for household AC wiring). The large diameter wire will compensate for the resistance through the length of the run and ensure you have full voltage and amperage where it connects to the track. Once you have the big feed in place, tap into it every 3-6 feet and use 18awg wires to connect between the feeder and the track. Having frequent track connections also helps work around bad solder joints on the track itself.


----------



## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

not being familiar with ez track , do what shdwdrgs says but would add if the track is sectional , then make sure rail joiners are tight between feeder drops.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Usually the 'drops' from the track to the bus as
suggested by shdwdrgn should be every 6 track
feet or so.

We can hope that your EZ track uses nickle silver
rails. These are less likely to corrode. The steel
rails on some EZ will be very troublesome. 

Your garage layout will be subject to the vagaries of your
climate. It can cause track expansion and contraction.
This can be troublesome. It could cause deformations
that would result in derails. It also can affect the
track 'joiners'. But because of this movement you cannot solder
every track joint. Some must be free to move. 

You should obtain a track cleaning car. Usually these
use alcohol on a fiber pad. A loco pushes it around 
the layout removing dust and other debris that you
can expect with a garage layout. Run it before you
run any trains. You may not have to clean the loco
wheels as much, but you should expect that chore
every few operations.

Don


----------



## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

All those twinned joints every 9" or so will almost certainly cause you a LOT of grief in a garage. As has been mentioned/predicted, the tracks will want to adjust to changes in temperature. Humidity won't be a problem with metal rails and plastic roadbed/ballast....unless it's supported somehow by wood that expands across the grain/shrinks the same way with substantial changes in humidity. Changes in temperature of 30 deg F will make 100 contiguous feet of Code 100 rail (which your EZ Track is) expand 0.25". That's not much, and a few sliding joiners or gaps can accommodate those necessary changes in length. However, if you add another 30 deg, now you're closer to 1/2", and that could be a problem with gaps closing, or gaps widening too much, or tracks buckling.

I would find a way to leave several sliding joiners along tangents, but I would solder together all curved elements. If you think this is sensible, and most experienced people will say it covers a multitude of problems, you could see where a wholesale change to flex track makes as much sense.


----------



## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I don't know where you are located geographically but be aware that heat rises and the closer to the ceiling will be the hottest part of your garage.


----------



## Broncobob1 (May 6, 2018)

Thanks to everyone for the exact info that I was looking for. There is a lot more to setting this up than I thought, but I will take all advice, that’s why I am on the forum


----------



## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

*another point of view*

See if you can sell the ez-track and then buy 36" flex track.
I personally would not want sectional track except for short stretches to allow for the expansion/contraction.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

So, I'm a bit of a contrarian when it comes to this stuff. First of all, I think EZ track (provided it's nickel-silver and not steel) is a good option for what you are doing. I don't think you need the added complexity flex track would cause. Also, because the plastic roadbed has a separate connector, you're not relying on rail joiners to hold everything in alignment, so you don't need to worry about soldering joints... PROVIDED you have good electrical connectivity. 

As far as adding power drops, I've always maintained that every 3-6 feet is way overkill. I'd go more like every 6-8. The easiest method would be to use so-called terminal joiners, which are rail joiners with AWG22 wires factory soldered to them. For the short run involved, that will probably be enough. Your other option is to use heavier wire (AWG18-ish) and drill a hole through the roadbed at intervals, then solder the feeder to the outside of the rail.

In a garage, though, environment is going to be your biggest enemy. Unfinished wood will expand / contract (ok, any wood will, but it will be much worse if it is unfinished). This may not be an issue with your track if you don't fasten it to the wood, but it might cause trouble with the supports for your bridge. As Mesenteria pointed out, the metal rails will expand and contract (I use a thermal expansion coefficient of 0.000009" / in per degree F, which gives you more like 1/3 of an inch over 100' in a 30 degree temp change). Since the majority of your rail joints would be (and need to be) unsoldered, you might be ok, although you could have a push-apart of the plastic roadbed as the rails expanded then contracted again.

The other environmental issues you'll have to contend with are dirt / dust (I don't know about your garage, but I can never get mine anywhere near as clean as some of the ones I see in pictures) and heat, which in addition to the effect on track, can cause problems with your electronics at high temps.

You might consider partially finishing the interior of your garage with some insulation to help mitigate some of these issues.


----------



## Broncobob1 (May 6, 2018)

What about the nce power cab, is that a good unit to use on my setup? The e-z track has electrical plugs made into the track, should I use them or should I soider the power leads directly to the track?, and does it matter which wire to the inside or outside track. I plan on soldering all the track connections including the joiners for a solid electrical contact


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I saw the NCE Power Cab in use at a hobby shop about 60+ miles from here a month or so ago. It works. The owner showed me how it's programmed, and it is self-upgradable via internet firmware updates, unlike other brands that have to be sent to the manufacturer for an upgrade.

It controls all digital operations of any locomotive including European brands. That was a major concern of mine as I am modeling Deutsche-Bahn in southern Germany.

I'm ordering the Power Cab intro system in a day or two for use with Pico equipment.

It supplies 2 amps, and can control up to three HO scale locomotives or four N scale locos.

_Soldering_ is a good way to ensure electrical contact. Regardless of the comments I've received here about my soldering skills, my connections are secure with electrical integrity all the way around the track that has so far been laid. I've been at it for quite awhile and I never had any complaints about my skills from the Air Force.

Always solder from the outside of the rail and use a heat sink on the rail you are working on to divert the heat from the iron away from the plastic rail ties. A heat sink can be nothing more than an alligator clip located behind the contact point of the iron. 30 watts is plenty and use rosin core solder.

Keep your connections consistent. If you use black wire on the outside rail and white wire on the inside rail, do that everywhere on the layout regardless of pass-over tracks or where the loop ends up. Reversing loops have a special consideration and I cannot tell you about those for DCC since my layout does not use a reversing loop anywhere. Just pay attention to what color you are soldering to which rail.

Someone here will inevitably give you a detailed explanation of how to wire a reversing section of track for DCC. Probably two or three replies. At least. And then tell you what you are doing wrong after you've completed the task.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Broncobob1 said:


> What about the nce power cab, is that a good unit to use on my setup? The e-z track has electrical plugs made into the track, should I use them or should I soider the power leads directly to the track?, and does it matter which wire to the inside or outside track. I plan on soldering all the track connections including the joiners for a solid electrical contact


NCE Power Cab is an excellent DCC unit. If you already have it, no worries. If you haven't bought it yet, don't; it will be a waste. For what you want to do, a limited system like Bachmann's EZ Command or MRC's Prodigy Explorer will be cheaper and more than sufficient.

Remember what several of us said about multiple feeders. You can use the EZ track terminal track, but you're going to need a lot of them -- every 8-ish feet, give or take. A single feed will probably not provide sufficient power relying on track connections alone. Even if you soldered all your joiners (but see below). My personal opinion, which you may not share, is that those terminal tracks are an eyesore, because they look so unrealistic.

Or you can use the terminal joiners, or solder on your own feeder wires. It doesn't matter -- it's easier to hide terminal joiners, but they have very thin wires. As long as you consistently wire the same bus to the same rail, it doesn't matter which side.

If you're planning on soldering joiners, go back and read what several of us wrote about heat-related expansion of your rails. If you solder all your joints, you will have a disaster on your hands. You have to allow for some significant expansion and contraction. You can solder the joiners on each block of track with a feeder together, but between those blocks, leave about 1/16" gap and let the rails float in the joiners. This will take care of any expansion, but you may have to actually grind the rails off, because the roadbed may hold them closer together than that.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Michael

I've noticed that you are quite aware of good
electric and electronic devices, their wiring
and operations. But you mention
not using a reverse loop, so thot I'd fill you in.

There's nothing mysterious or difficult about wiring a
'reverse loop' or 'wye' on a DCC layout.

It is simply an isolated section of track which is
at least as long as your longest lighted passenger
train.

The DCC reverse loop controller is fed by your
main track bus. It's output powers the isolated section
with 2 wires.

The loop controller reverses phase (polarity) of the
isolate section to match that of the main track. it does
so by detecting the 'short' created by the loco wheels
spanning the joint between main track and iso section.
A very fast circuit matches the current and the loco
continues, not even blinking it's headlight. At the
other end of the iso section, again the loco wheels
'short' and the loop controller again matches 
the iso current to the main. All totally automatic.

By the way, the reason for the length requirement
is to avoid the situation of the loco wheels spanning the 'exit'
joiners of the iso section while wheels of lighted car spans
the 'entrance' joiners. This would result in a short circuit
shut down since the reverse controller is getting conflicting 'shorts'.

Don


----------



## Broncobob1 (May 6, 2018)

Again,a thank you all for the great advice. Would it be a better idea to solder the power feeds directly to the feeder wire or just use the plug in on the Bachman terminal track sections and should I use suitcase connectors versus solder. I have soldered my track sections together and checked my continuity with a meter, all connections checked out good.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Broncobob1 said:


> Again,a thank you all for the great advice. Would it be a better idea to solder the power feeds directly to the feeder wire or just use the plug in on the Bachman terminal track sections and should I use suitcase connectors versus solder. I have soldered my track sections together and checked my continuity with a meter, all connections checked out good.


A soldered connection is always going to be your best, most reliable option. The tradeoff between risk of an bad connection and convenience is yours to assess. Many layouts work just fine using suitcase connectors and plug-in connections to terminal tracks.


----------



## Broncobob1 (May 6, 2018)

I am totally stumped......all track is solderd and I have run a feeder with connections every 2feet. The problem is with my loco on the track it idles fine(Bachman Virginian) but as soon as I give it throttle it dies, the power stops as soon a little throttle is added. As I stated before I’m working with a little over 100 feet of Bachman track and a nce power cab. What ever I am doing wrong is probably something simple, thought that I was smarter, guess not........any suggestions, what am I missing!


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Most pauses or stops by a DCC loco are due to
loss of electrical current. This can often be
resolved by cleaning the track and the loco wheels.
Especially in a garage layout, the need for constant
track cleaning is paramount. The dust etc. will
fall on the rails and the loco wheels will pick it up
breaking electrical feed to decoder. As I mentioned,
you should run a track cleaning car BEFORE any
operating session.

Don


----------



## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I have to second Don's comment regarding track cleaning. My shelf layout is in my garage and I use a cloth wet with alcohol to clean the rails if it's a few days or a week before every running. Dust accumulates very quickly in the garage.


----------



## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

Your loco is a DCC equipped loco, right?

You have tested the leads/polarity?

Have you setup a short section to test the NCE Powercab and locos to make sure everything is good there?


----------



## Broncobob1 (May 6, 2018)

Yes I have and all works well. Tested all my wire connections and they all checked out, by the way, the track is all new. Again it’s like I get only intermittent power at times with dead spots, it’s driving me crazy. I have 2 locos and it happens to both. Checked the track several times and the power is right, maybe that there’s a problem with the power cab but I can’t verify that


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Broncobob1 said:


> Yes I have and all works well. Tested all my wire connections and they all checked out, by the way, the track is all new. Again it’s like I get only intermittent power at times with dead spots, it’s driving me crazy. I have 2 locos and it happens to both. Checked the track several times and the power is right, maybe that there’s a problem with the power cab but I can’t verify that


One of the most common mistakes people make in this hobby is to assume that new stuff means clean stuff. It doesn't, and it isn't. If you assume it's clean, Mr. Murphy says that 9 times out of 10, it isn't.

Clean all your track (especially in a garage -- it's gonna get filthy fast) and you locomotive's wheels. Then you can eliminate that as a possible cause. A rag moistened with denatured alcohol is my method of choice.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

BroncoBob

Have you used your multimeter set to AC
and tested the voltage every few feet on your
layout? You should see around 14 volts. If
there is a variation from 14 probe the adjacent
section. If it is 14, you have a poor joiner
between the two sections.

You say both locos react the same on your
track. That is a good indication that the
problem is loss of conductivity from track
to decoder. Again...it's 'stuff'' on the track
and/or loco wheels. 

You can test this. Put a few sections of 'new'
track down for a test track. Clean it with
alcohol. Connect your DCC controller to it.

Also clean the wheels of your locos.
An easy way is to place a paper towel on the
track, drip a drop or two of alcohol on it. Run
a loco onto the wet spot, Hold the loco by hand,
and run up the speed control allowing the wheels
to spin. Do the same with the other truck. You
will likely see two dark lines on the towell...dirt that was on
the wheels and impairing electrical conductivity.

Once the track and loco wheels are clean run
the loco on the test track...we wager it will run
smoothy.

However, if the loco continues to pause or stop you may
have poor wiper contact with the back of the
loco wheels. You can test this by setting your
multimeter to OHMS. One probe on the right
front wheel. Probe each of the right side wheels.
Then move the probe to the front left wheel and
do the same with the left wheels.
If you fail to get a reading at any
wheel you have a contact problem. Use a swab
with alcohol to clean the back of the wheels and
the wipers.

Don't think any of us have asked an important
question...is your track nickle/silver or steel?
If steel, you probably will want to replace it
with N/S. Steel will quickly corrode in a garage
climate.

Don


----------



## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Does your DC power attach to the rail in only one place and then you are relying on the rail joiners to get power everywhere else?


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dennis461 said:


> Does your DC power attach to the rail in only one place and then you are relying on the rail joiners to get power everywhere else?


He says in post #16 that all of his connections are soldered and he has feeders every two feet.


----------



## Broncobob1 (May 6, 2018)

Yes I do have feeders every 2ft. .i have the power from my power cab direct to 1 connection to the main wire and of course the feeders to the track with all joiners soldered in place. With full power from the power cab my meter reads 11.5 amps.....I hope thats enough to do the trick ..... I will clean my locos wheels as suggested with denatured alcohol hopefully today......again many thanks.......


----------

