# DC vs DCC wiring



## pdecesare (Nov 10, 2021)

Hello!

It's been years (WAY too many to say) since I had an ho train. I am looking at getting back into it. My old layout was an "L" shaped DC system and one dual transformer, with other smaller transformers for lights and switches. I never had any power dropouts or engine stalls. I want to build an "L" shape layout with two 4x8 boards. DCC looks very cool and all, but seems the wiring seems complicated and tedious. 

My question is: Can I simply attach the 2 power wires from the DCC unit to the track and go OR do I need to supply power to each section of track as many recommend ( others say every few feet)? The longest distance from the DCC unit to furthest section of track might be 10-12 feet max. I'd plan to run at most 2 locos at a time.

I guess my confusion comes from my old DC layout ran the power just fine thru the track and metal joiners. Why is DCC so much more involved?

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

Peter


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

_"I guess my confusion comes from my old DC layout ran the power just fine thru the track and metal joiners. Why is DCC so much more involved?!_


It's not. You can theoretically run two wires to a section of track and run trains. In opposite directions. At different speeds. All with one controller. Most controllers on the market will allow at least four trains to run at the same time depending upon whether or not they have sound. I have run six trains at once, four with sound and two without, but it gets too involved to keep them all separated so I usually limit my operating to a max of four. More often, three.

Now, most of us run a 14ga or so buss under the layout following the track, more or less, and drop feeder wires of a smaller gauge every 6-10 feet and connect to the buss. For a layout of the size you are contemplating, that would be advisable.

There are no block controls, no insulated joiners, no separate cabs, none of that DC hassle and a mile of wire to wire it.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I believe the answer to your question is YES. You can attach just the two wires and be just fine. More will give protection against bad continuity between sections, but not strictly required. That's the same with DC and DCC. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I have an _NCE Power Cab_, with many feeders, (overdone) and if I wanted to I could run several locomotives at once.
But being a bit slow at my age, I never run more than two at a time... usually one train running the outer loop, while a solo locomotive does switching chores.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Keep in mind, any reversing loops and/or wyes will still need either special wiring (Boooo!) or an electronic automatic reversing unit (Yaayyyy!). DCC auto-reversers are very easy to hook up, not complicated at all.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Two 4x8s I would think could manage with a single pair of power wires. But I would, and wonder why anyone would not, run a pair to each 4x8. Of course, I always plan for the worst so I would run the initial pairs to the farthest point of each 4x8. That way if you need to add another pair of feeders anywhere, you can just tap off on the nearer side using suitcase connectors.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

pdecesare said:


> My question is: Can I simply attach the 2 power wires from the DCC unit to the track and go


Yes.



pdecesare said:


> OR do I need to supply power to each section of track as many recommend ( others say every few feet)? The longest distance from the DCC unit to furthest section of track might be 10-12 feet max. I'd plan to run at most 2 locos at a time.


Need, no. Recommended just for reliability. Rail joiners can get crud in them and fail to conduct properly and result in dead track. Also recommended for DC...

Copper wire is a better conductor, so feeders reaching the opposite side of the layout can help deal with power/signal loss through a long distance of rail.



pdecesare said:


> I guess my confusion comes from my old DC layout ran the power just fine thru the track and metal joiners. Why is DCC so much more involved?


It's not.

As said above, DCC wiring is NOT complicated; you can just replace your DC power pack/throttle with a DCC system and go. Extra feeders to tracks around the layout helps reliability and fight dead spots due to bad contact, but this would help a non-DCC layout too. On a DC layout wired for multitrain operation, you'll already have multiple separate blocks with their own feeders; to convert to DCC just remove the DC power supplies and replace one of them with the DCC system. Turn all the block toggles "on" to the DCC system. (Bonus - if you ever need to troubleshoot a wiring issue, you can turn off all the blocks until you isolate the issue.)

Now if you're wiring things for a working signal system, well that's a different story, but we're just talking basic DC vs. DCC here. And wiring DC multi-cab block control is far more complicated that a small DCC layout. It's just been understood and written about in "Wiring for Model Railroads" books since the first half of the 20th century.



Mixed Freight said:


> Keep in mind, any reversing loops and/or wyes will still need either special wiring (Boooo!) or an electronic automatic reversing unit (Yaayyyy!). DCC auto-reversers are very easy to hook up, not complicated at all.


Yep, and that requirement is the same in DC as well, but with DCC auto-reversers it makes running easier since there's no manual toggle switches.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I think expectations of solid operations has changed which means more wires for many but this is not due to dcc.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Had I not been in such a hurry to get another layout started after such a long break from the hobby, I would have wired mine for block detection for signal operation. I knew nothing of the advances in the hobby after 30 years.

In the 70s and 80s automatic signal operation was a complex mess of wiring, relays, and circuits I was not ready to dive into.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Straight up: basic DCC wiring is no harder or more complicated than DC, and in fact, it's easier when there are reversing loops or multiple blocks involved. You're confusing the "best practice" of using bus wires and multiple power feeds with requirements for DCC. My son's 8x8 L-shaped layout runs just fine on a single pair of AWG22 feeders connected to an MRC Prodigy Express2 base station. Personally, I prefer adding feeders about every 8-10 linear feet, and on each leg of a turnout, just in case.


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## pdecesare (Nov 10, 2021)

Thank you to all who replied!! I see your points about DCC wiring being similar to wiring all the old DC tracks separately. The terms buss and feeders can be a bit overwhelming to a DCC novice. I'll definitely run a FEW feeders to my new DCC layout. I bought the NCE power cab DCC unit to start with. I figured keep it simple!

My old layout used the Atlas remote switching tracks with the 3-wire switch attached. I see the turnouts have no switch attached. In viewing other people's layouts, I rarely see a switch attached. Are they all using the under stable switches and what do you all use to throw switches and turnout remotely??


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

pdecesare said:


> My old layout used the Atlas remote switching tracks with the 3-wire switch attached. I see the turnouts have no switch attached. In viewing other people's layouts, I rarely see a switch attached. Are they all using the under stable switches and what do you all use to throw switches and turnout remotely??


You can use the same type of switches still.

Many people use various types of under-table switch machines, or even just manual switches if the layout is designed for walk-around operation. The hugely visible old surface mount switch machines aren't totally realistic. But other than appearance, there's nothing that says you can't still use that. Just provide a separate power supply for them and wire them up the same way you did before.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Bus lines & feeders are easy to understand really. Think of them like power lines on your street. There’s a main bus going from pole to pole to pole. And “feeders” tap off going to each house. The difference is, you have positive & negative instead of 120, 120, Neutral. But schematically speaking, bus = main power line, feeders go from bus to the rails. Stick a wire nut or wago connector on the ends of the bus line.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

pdecesare said:


> Thank you to all who replied!! I see your points about DCC wiring being similar to wiring all the old DC tracks separately. The terms buss and feeders can be a bit overwhelming to a DCC novice. I'll definitely run a FEW feeders to my new DCC layout. I bought the NCE power cab DCC unit to start with. I figured keep it simple!
> 
> My old layout used the Atlas remote switching tracks with the 3-wire switch attached. I see the turnouts have no switch attached. In viewing other people's layouts, I rarely see a switch attached. Are they all using the under stable switches and what do you all use to throw switches and turnout remotely??


Everything that you're talking about was true 20 years ago, too. DCC hasn't really changed much of anything. You can still buy and use those Atlas turnouts with the remote operators, if you want. The thing is that most people recognize that they are junk, so they buy better quality ones. Those don't typically come with a remote operator attached, but there are probably a dozen options for throwing points remotely. Personally, I'd much rather hide my switch machine under the table than have this very unrealistic chunk of plastic next to my track that I have to hide or disguise somehow.

As I pointed out before, busses and feeders aren't unique to DCC. It's simply a more reliable way to power your track than hooking up a pair of wires and relying on the track and joiners to transfer electricity around the layout. A single pair of feeders is just asking for dead spots in your rails (and having said that, I'll remind you what I said about my son's layout in my earlier post).

Don't try to make this hard... it isn't.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Here's my N scale layout. Green track is Ground Level, blue track is elevated on top of mountain. I have laid all the green track on the left side. Before I soldered any joint, I tested the track, just to test the wiring, which is planned for DCC. The outer oval is about 10 foot by 4 foot, and the train ran arounfd the entire oval on DCC with only one feeder, as long as the turnouts were all set so the train would run the oval, and not diverge. This was with just one feeder which was 22 gauge solid core wire.

My plan calls for many more feeders, most of which are to supply constant power regardless of which way the turnouts are pointed.

Red dots are planned main line feeders. Blue dots are feeders that go through an Auto-Reversing Module. Blue lines are isolation gaps that keep the short section in between isolated so the AR module can correct phase (polarity) automatically whenever the train enters a reverse loop created by the triangular Wyes at either end.

So... ignore the blue track, and just focus on the left side oval of green track. One set of feeders was adequate to operate the train over that total distance. HOWEVER, when one of the turnouts was set to diverge the train onto another route, it broke the continuity of the inner rail of the oval. The outer rail still had continuity, but the inner rail lost continuity when the turnout switch to a diverging route. In order to correct that, I have added feeders somewhere on each section of track between all the turnouts.

For added insurance, I included a few feeders about every 6-8 feet if a section between turnouts was that long.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

TRACK wiring with dcc is about as easy as it gets (not including reversing loops). Just connect the power to the track at a few locations.

It's the LOCOMOTIVE wiring that gets more complicated. Not so much with out-of-the-box locos that come factory-equipped with dcc (and sound). Just put them onto the track.

But if the engine is DC, you've got to convert it. Some are easy, just plug in a dcc decoder. Others get more complicated. Some get VERY complicated.

Also, you DO NOT want to "mix" DC with dcc.
Can cause a lot of problems!


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## pdecesare (Nov 10, 2021)

Great advice and tips - thank you all !!

I see people use many different methods to connect their bus/feeder wires with clips and clamps. Why not just use wire nuts?? Put the wires together and twist!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

pdecesare said:


> Great advice and tips - thank you all !!
> 
> I see people use many different methods to connect their bus/feeder wires with clips and clamps. Why not just use wire nuts?? Put the wires together and twist!


Because the bus, by definition, is a long run of wire with SEVERAL feeders coming off of it. A wire nut joins two ends together. Now granted, you could use one to join THREE ends together (the feeder and two ends of bus wire to make a "continuous" run), but wire nuts aren't always that dependable, either.

However, the most important consideration is the same as so many other situations in this hobby: there is no one right answer. If it works for you, then it's right.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm using terminal blocks as hubs for feeders,. My layout (posted above) has some turnouts clustered here and there. And since a feeder on both ends of a turnout is good practice, my feeders are also clustered.


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## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

pdecesare said:


> Great advice and tips - thank you all !!
> 
> I see people use many different methods to connect their bus/feeder wires with clips and clamps. Why not just use wire nuts?? Put the wires together and twist!


I am new to the hobby and will definitely defer to the more experienced hands. I have an 'ell' layout









Uffington-Davis Line design thread


Greetings all, Attached are my best-to-date track plan visions. I do appreciate your input. 1. benchwork is fixed. Scale is HO. Digitrax Zephyr and DT602 already in hand. Era projected as 30s-40s upper Midwest Great Lakes. 2. I want continuous loop with some interesting...




www.modeltrainforum.com





I have my yard all wired. I used a combination of terminal strips; IDC 3M connectors and WAGO connectors. Really love the WAGO as an alternative to the wire nuts. 









WAGO 75 Pcs Wire Connectors, 221 Series Lever-Nuts Assortment with Case, Includes (30x) 221-412, (30x) 221-413, (15x) 221-415, Compact Splicing Electrical Connector: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement


WAGO 75 Pcs Wire Connectors, 221 Series Lever-Nuts Assortment with Case, Includes (30x) 221-412, (30x) 221-413, (15x) 221-415, Compact Splicing Electrical Connector: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement



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just my ha-penny's worth! Happy modeling!


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