# Scrap Metal Loads For Gondolas



## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

Anyone have any advice for making scrap metal loads for gondolas? I have put cut up beams from old model building kits in them before but wasn't happy with the look. My old revell gondolas came with loads that looked like gravel, never understood that one! I have thought of making a mold and using plaster to make the load but don't have the skills. So what have some of you used?


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I've used cut-up bread wrapper clips. It simulates shreaded steel plate.
Gotta' paint all the pieces, and 'rust' em up.
Glue them on a basswood base in a haphazard shuffle.
Throw in a Tichy steel drum or two.


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

LateStarter said:


> I've used cut-up bread wrapper clips. It simulates shreaded steel plate.
> Gotta' paint all the pieces, and 'rust' em up.
> Glue them on a basswood base in a haphazard shuffle.
> Throw in a Tichy steel drum or two.


Can we see a picture? I like the idea of building it up on a base to make the load look fuller.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

LateStarter said:


> I've used cut-up bread wrapper clips. It simulates shreaded steel plate.
> .


My wife considers this a horrible suggestion. She has been saving twister ties for decades (Why? In case we need them) and says that if you cut them up they will be unusable.

No. I am not making this up.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Clips are different that twister ties......

Clip
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=441665&stc=1&d=1525101088

Twister Ties
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=441673&stc=1&d=1525101088


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Chooch makes scrap loads for gondolas.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Diesel Fuel said:


> Can we see a picture? I like the idea of building it up on a base to make the load look fuller.


I do the same thing, but carve a piece of extruded foam (I haven't actually made a scrap metal load, but the same concept applies to gravel and coal loads, of which I have made many).

I use the sprues from plastic model kits and broken carrier sheets from wooden ones as pipe / plate; I also use random cuts of styrene I beam.


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

Chet said:


> Chooch makes scrap loads for gondolas.


I have seen them, not sure about what size gondolas I have. I think the short one's are HO scale 50 ft. The longer one's I don't have a guess. These are old Revell cars


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There are many things around the house that
can be used to simulate whatever on a model layout.

I save the caps for rattle cans (made a water tank of one),
or any 'interesting' plastic piece.

Recently I bought a new printer. To stabilize the carridge
they used a complex orange plastic gadget. That looked.
to me, like a huge machine that could be a load for
a flat car. So I did some tinkering, created a 'crate'
and this is the result:









Among other suggestions for your junk load, old
plastic car wheels, broken rails, any and all odd
shaped pieces. Rust 'em and load 'em.

The point is, think creatively. It's fun.

Don


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

These oads are for 40 foot gons. I haven't checked their site to see if they have longer loads. I have a 50 footer that needs a load. Here's a link. 

http://www.choochenterprises.com/freightloads.html


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## EdC (Feb 10, 2017)

I made some compressed aluminum bales from a recycling plant. Start out with a couple of aluminum sheets and roll them into a ball. The ones I made are to big. Then compress them using a vice into a square block. Then I used a red, green and blue marker to make it look like soda cans.

This a great subject, I hope we see some more scratch built loads.

Ed


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Diesel Fuel said:


> Can we see a picture?


Hard to get a 'down-in' shot of a brown subject in my lighting, but here's the edge-effect of cut-up plastic pieces, bread clips, and odds-and-ends.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

if you know someone with a lathe cuttings make gon loads of scrap.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

There was an article in RMC years ago about using slip joint pliers and aluminum foil to make simulated scrap, the cubed metal bundles from crushers...

Just noticed, Ed C beat me to it. The cubes were slightly smaller, depending on what scale you were modeling...

Tom


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

LateStarter said:


> Hard to get a 'down-in' shot of a brown subject in my lighting, but here's the edge-effect of cut-up plastic pieces, bread clips, and odds-and-ends.
> 
> View attachment 441713
> 
> ...


Holman Steel from Holman, Indiana? 

Tom


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Krieglok said:


> Holman Steel from Holman, Indiana?
> 
> Tom


No, lol, I used to work in the Chassis/Engine Dept. at _Holman-Moody_ on the GT-40 racecars back in the day.

I freelanced the name 'Holman' for my steel mill, and 'Moody's' for an electric motor repair facility on my layout.
Didn't know about the city.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Holman, Indiana was the fictional city name Jean Shepherd (of "The Christmas Story" fame) used in his books and movies about growing up in what was actually Hammond, Indiana. 

It was a steel town in it's heyday....

Tom


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

EdC said:


> I made some compressed aluminum bales from a recycling plant. Start out with a couple of aluminum sheets and roll them into a ball. The ones I made are to big. Then compress them using a vice into a square block. Then I used a red, green and blue marker to make it look like soda cans.
> 
> This a great subject, I hope we see some more scratch built loads.
> 
> Ed


That came out pretty nice :thumbsup:


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Wow!
Modeling imitates life; life imitates art!


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

Chet said:


> These oads are for 40 foot gons. I haven't checked their site to see if they have longer loads. I have a 50 footer that needs a load. Here's a link.
> 
> http://www.choochenterprises.com/freightloads.html


How do I figure out the scale length of my gons?? :dunno:


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

LateStarter said:


> Hard to get a 'down-in' shot of a brown subject in my lighting, but here's the edge-effect of cut-up plastic pieces, bread clips, and odds-and-ends.
> 
> View attachment 441713
> 
> ...


 Great looking cars :appl:


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Diesel Fuel said:


> How do I figure out the scale length of my gons?? :dunno:


Get yourself a modeler's scale rule. They're a foot long, and made of stainless steel, and are marked on each edge (front & back) with N, HO, O, and S gauges in scale feet (with subdivisions for quarter feet, or every three scale inches).

Mine is made by Mascot, and has a decimal equivalent chart for number drills, and a tap & drill index for different screw sizes.

Place the rule's HO scale-edge against a gondola or any other scale object, and read the exact scale length from it.

They go for about $7 to $10 online, and cheaper at your LHS.


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

I'll stop in and get one today, thanks


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> Among other suggestions for your junk load, old
> plastic car wheels, broken rails, any and all odd
> shaped pieces. Rust 'em and load 'em.
> 
> ...


Old (and new) wheelsets are a common gon load. Instead of chucking those old plastic wheels that you're replacing with metal ones, paint 'em rust color and load 'em up!


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Shear chunks*_

The _metal shears_ (or 'scrappers') in some salvage yards were capable of chopping up such mammoth items as rail, I-beams, and entire vehicles.

If you get some Matchbox 1:75 scale cars & trucks, and dissect them into roofs, fenders, doors, front clips, etc., you'll have sundry parts to put into a gondola (or any generic pile of junk).
All you have to do is paint the parts 'rusty'... mostly blacks, browns & oranges.
Leave some original color underneath.

NOTE:
_An entire front clip assembly (from windshield to bumper) can be made by smoothing and burnishing tin foil over an HO car, and painting it carefully (airbrushing in a shoe box works best). You can replicate roofs and door sections the same way._


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

LateStarter said:


> _*Shear chunks*_
> 
> The _metal shears_ (or 'scrappers') in some salvage yards were capable of chopping up such mammoth items as rail, I-beams, and entire vehicles.
> 
> y.[/I]


After WW2, the US built scrapyards to destroy thousands of aircraft including the legendary and beloved B-17 Flying Fortress. They had guillotines that could chop a heavy bomber in half.


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Interesting topic... thanks for the info and ideas. I’ve been thinking about how to have removable loads for four gondolas I picked up recently ... Rapido 52’ mill gondolas.

Questions:
Any ideas of how to simulate ore concentrate loads? I’ll attach a photo of what I’ve seen. And wondering what type of ore it is?
Look at the loaded gondolas at bottom right of photo.

The train is headed for the smelter at Trail BC Canada. I believe it is a lead and zinc smelter, but not sure if they process other ore with silver, gold, copper, etc.

I’m thinking the concentrate was loaded with a front end loader or similar equipment.. due to the small piles throughout the load.

I’m ok buying custom loads like this if available... or ideas for do it your self


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I can't answer your question but that's a great photo.:thumbsup:


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Could be iron ore.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I can't tell what it is; maybe even smelter slag.

But you can make your own loads the same way: shape a piece of extruded foam into the appropriate shape and paint it an appropriate color. While the paint is still wet, sprinkle on an appropriate sand or gravel product. If you need a thicker layer, wait until thenpaint dries, then use dilute matte medium or white glue just as you would while ballasting track.


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

That is a great photo, do you know what year? I see a F7 in there I think


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Thanks for the replies guys

And thanks for ideas of making concentrate loads CTValleyRR

Also yes, that is a really good photo. I am using some ideas from a collection of these photos for my model railroad stuff.

I found this great site with lots of similar photos.

http://www.railphoto-art.org/collections/bjorklund/canadian-pacific/

And the locomotives in the attached 1973 photo is a Fairbanks-Morse “C-Liner” along with SD40 and/or SD40-2.


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## StefanT78 (Oct 9, 2014)

*YouTube videos*

Hi everyone.
Interestingly enough, I was just looking at videos of this on Youtube a few weeks ago.
Here are two links to some how-to videos for pretty decent looking scrap loads.

mpeterll:





RonsTrainsNThings





Hope this helps!


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## BigGalute (Nov 10, 2014)

*Scrap Metal*

An easy project, and one you can do over time, is crushed metal blocks. I took a piece of aluminum foil, spray painted it a rust color then let it dry. Next, get the following:

1/2 in or 3/4 in drive socket- the bigger the better
short extension bar for same

take a section of the foil, now dry, and push it into the square hole of the socket. Use a free thumb to cover the inside of the socket to keep the foil from pushing through. Keep pushing the foil in and use the extension bar as a ram to push it in harder, really packing it tight. When you have in as much as you can or want, take the bar and from the inside of the socket, push the bar into the square hole to push out the block. DONE! 

By painting the foil first you purposely loose some of the paint as you pack, making the block look "weathered". You can do this while watching TV and in the course of 1/2 hour have a couple of dozen blocks. They're light and pack well in a gondola!


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Diesel Fuel said:


> My old revell gondolas came with loads that looked like gravel, never understood that one!


What don't you understand?


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

ncrc5315 said:


> Diesel Fuel said:
> 
> 
> > My old revell gondolas came with loads that looked like gravel, never understood that one!
> ...


I don't understand how they would unload gravel out of a flat bottem car


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There is a video that was posted a couple years ago
showing a small treaded tractor with boom that 'walked'
from rail car to rail car unloading gravel. Some of these 
operators are very talented. I guess it took hard 
human work to get the last of the load from the floor.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> There is a video that was posted a couple years ago
> showing a small treaded tractor with boom that 'walked'
> from rail car to rail car unloading gravel. Some of these
> operators are very talented. I guess it took hard
> ...


I have seen photos in Trains magazine of full sized bucket loaders and backhoes sitting on gons and unloading them.

Some of them have drop sides, with or without tilting mechanisms. Most of the contents just slide out, and guys with shovels take care of the rest.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

When I worked for the KYLE, the TAMKO plant at Phillipsburg KS, would get in gons of limestone rock. Herzog, kept a tractor backhoe on the property, which the operator would get on top of the car to unload it. Do a search for Herzog Cartopper, and you will see what I mean. As to why you would do it, if you don't have a way to remove rock/gravel from underneath a hopper car, it is much easy to use a backhoe, and clean out a flat floor. As far as cleaning the car out, a good operator, won't leave more than a scoop shovel full in the car. It is much easy to clean out a gon, then a hopper car, with all of the "V's" with a backhoe.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

*He's right!*



ncrc5315 said:


> When I worked for the KYLE, the TAMKO plant at Phillipsburg KS, would get in gons of limestone rock. Herzog, kept a tractor backhoe on the property, which the operator would get on top of the car to unload it. Do a search for Herzog Cartopper, and you will see what I mean. .


He's right!


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Diesel Fuel said:


> How do I figure out the scale length of my gons?? :dunno:


All you need is a calculator. The following example is for HO scale, 1:87.
Measure the length of the car. Measure only the body from end to end, do not include any frame overhang, couplers, etc.
Multiply this by 87. This gives you the number of inches that the full scale car would measure.
Now divide by 12. This converts the measurement from inches to feet. 
For example, a boxcar measures 7 inches long from one end of the body to the other. Multiply 7 x 87 for inches of length on the full scale car. In this example the result is 609, hence the full scale car measured 609 inches from end to end. Divide 609 by 12 to convert from inches to feet. In this example, the result is 50.75, meaning the full scale car is a 50 foot box car. The .75 represent the wall thickness of each end of the car, in this case 4.5 inches on each end.
For the mathematicians, here's the formula. A is the length of the HO scale car: (A x 87)/12 = length. 
For other scales, replace 87 with whatever ratio number is appropriate for your scale.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

*Color should vary IMHO*

painting the scrap all one color does not make sense to me.
I regularly travel to a scrap yard in Camden NJ.
Only once did I see a trailer load of rust colored scrap dumped.
Ironically, it was a trailer full of tie plates, rail joiners and spikes.

Here is a picture of the kind of scrap I see.
Not a new picture of course...
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/365939/


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

Dennis, that's a very interesting picture, but I had never heard of a "STOP Dismount" sign.

According to two sites, the sign refers to railroaders holding on to a ladder on the side of a car. The clearance is too close, and if a sudden obstacle appears, the rider might not be able to get off in time.

In addition, if the train derails, the rider could be pulled into the wall.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I heard my neighbor say "Stop dismount" when his neighbor's dog jumped the fence and mounted my neighbor's dog.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And these last 2 posts have what to do about scrap metal loads for gondolas.....? hwell:


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

Vincent said:


> ncrc5315 said:
> 
> 
> > When I worked for the KYLE, the TAMKO plant at Phillipsburg KS, would get in gons of limestone rock. Herzog, kept a tractor backhoe on the property, which the operator would get on top of the car to unload it. Do a search for Herzog Cartopper, and you will see what I mean. .
> ...


When I worked at the power house at Buick City we dumped the hoppers in a pit BUT, if we would have had a backhoe like that OSHA would have shut that down in a heart beat LOL


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

> When I worked at the power house at Buick City we dumped the hoppers in a pit BUT, if we would have had a backhoe like that OSHA would have shut that down in a heart beat


And yet, it appears it's done all the time.....


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Old_Hobo said:


> And these last 2 posts have what to do about scrap metal loads for gondolas.....? hwell:


Same question here.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

Gramps said:


> Same question here.


Good to hear from you, Gramps. My post involved a sign that I didn't understand in a scrap metal yard. That provided a chance to do some interesting research, followed by a chance to post something informative.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

One could, and often people do, start a thread with that subject title....just sayin'.....hwell:


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## Diesel Fuel (Apr 10, 2018)

Dennis461 said:


> painting the scrap all one color does not make sense to me.
> I regularly travel to a scrap yard in Camden NJ.
> Only once did I see a trailer load of rust colored scrap dumped.
> Ironically, it was a trailer full of tie plates, rail joiners and spikes.
> ...


 That IS what a real scrap yard looks like. I used to haul scrap in a 18 wheeler to places just like that.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dennis461 said:


> painting the scrap all one color does not make sense to me.
> I regularly travel to a scrap yard in Camden NJ.
> Only once did I see a trailer load of rust colored scrap dumped.
> Ironically, it was a trailer full of tie plates, rail joiners and spikes.
> ...


I think you're absolutely correct, if you're talking about mixed scrap in a yard. However, the loads most of us are looking at aren't shipped as large volumes of unsorted metal, painted and unpainted, but as unused pieces of steel which are being sold AS scrap -- they're headed TO the scrap yard, not from it.

We send out dumpsters of scrap metal (unpainted steel from the manufacturing process) all the time, and I can confirm that it is uniformly a rust color, since by the time it gets shipped anywhere, it's been sitting in an uncovered scrap metal dumpster for a few weeks.

As always, paint and weather things to resemble what the real world equivalent looks like. That unpainted, rusted gon load may end up as one pile in the middle of a scrap yard full of shiny aluminum or painted autos.


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## Yoppeh7J-UPmp954 (Nov 23, 2014)

To get an idea about scrap colors google or what ever search engine you use "metal recyclers near me" then look at their yards on satellite view of google maps. After I retired I worked part time for a trucking outfit that had a few belly dump and both high side and low side end dump semi trailers. Part of the work was hauling scrap in high side end dumps for Metro recyclers in Salt Lake City. Some was from other scrap yards to Metro.
For a while in 2012 if I remember right we hauled in and dumped by a platform dock that had shipping containers on the trailer parked back in to it. They used the magnet on mobile Crain's to put the scrap on the platform then pushed it into the containers with a skid steer loader. They were shipping 5 containers a week to China. One of the other yards that had a car shredder had a lot of container being loaded too.
Some we hauled to to Nucor Steel west of I-15 near Plymouth Utah, which has 4 electric furnaces to melt scrap and produce steal products. You can see gondolas and a lot of large piles of scrap on google maps at Nucor's steel mill. As different metals melt at different temperatures they sort out the the different metals as they heat it up in the furnaces too.
Western Metal Recyclers has a recycling yard just north of Nucor.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Way to revive a 3 year-old thread.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

LateStarter said:


> Way to revive a 3 year-old thread.


No reason... but this guy does that fairly often.


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