# Laying Track



## Sideways (Jan 25, 2021)

So, track laying. I'm not at that stage yet, but I want to know what I'm doing long before I even touch it. I picked up Atlas code 100 flex track, as well as already having a few pieces of code 100 sectional, 6 or seven Peco turnouts, and about 30 feet of cork roadbed preowned. I watched a few videos, and the majority of people layed down the track and roadbed using caulk, a few used glue/caulk for the roadbed and simply pinned the track down, and some just did the caulking techique but with glue. My question is: which way is best, and how did you lay yours down? Was also wondering if it would be more efficient to just use sectional straight on small sidings instead of flex.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

What are you using for sub-roadbed?


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## Sideways (Jan 25, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> What are you using for sub-roadbed?


2 inch thick hardware store pink foam.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Sometimes I laid down a bead of caulk or liquid nails for projects, then the track, then t-pins to hold it on place, then weighted until the adhesive dried. Sometimes track, t-pins, then white glue shot between the rails and allowed to "settle", then weight. That's certainly not "right", it's just what I went with.

Addition of ballast is what really "locks in" the track.

Sub-roadbed = pink foam, blue foam or plywood.

Joining Atlas & Peco track/turnouts isn't gong to be ideal because the profile of the foot of the rails is different.

Flex is more efficient, IMO, because there are fewer joints and, therefore, less soldering.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I got me a big bottle of waterproof would glue and been laying everything down with that. Seems to be doing great so far. I've also used Elmer's glue all with good results.


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## shortwrench (Nov 21, 2019)

I use 1-1/4 nails which are used in a pneumatic brad nailer. Please refer to my post "Fastening Track" in the "My Layout "discussion.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I had 20 or so Peco Insulfrog turnouts in my HO DCC roomsize layout usiing Atlas code 100 flex track.
Tho there is a slight difference in the rails this was no problem for me. If you feel the need thin
shims can be used.

Peco is a very wise choice. You just do not have turnout caused
derails with them.

You didn't mention which version Peco turnouts that you have.

The Insulfrog is power routing...it will 'turn off' power to divert when
points are set straighrt. So you may need track drops to your bus
for the connecting rails if you want 'always on' power in your divert tracks..

The Electrofrogs change the polarity of the frog AND attached rails. Therefore,
to avoid shorts, you MUST have insulated joiners in BOTH frog rails.

There are various track adhesive favorites amontg our members and you
won't go wrong with any of them. My preference is Elmer's white 
glue...just a dab here and there...it's water soluable so you
can easily clean up any 'accidents' that happen.

The one common factor...use the
adhesive SPARINGLY. It is almost guaranteed that you will want to
make changes, Sparce glue makes it easy to pull up track without
doing damage to roadbed or track. 

Don


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## Sideways (Jan 25, 2021)

Thanks for all the answers everyone! @DonR, all my turnouts are insulfrogs. They were available second hand at my LHS like new for a decent price so I figured, why not? Only found out later that they were of such good quality😆 As for the last part there, I'll tack everything down temporarily just to see how it looks before any gluing happens, but thanks for the warning


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

If you use a small bead of DAP Alex Plus with Silicone 'clear', and smear it with a spatula or third class mail 'you're pre-approved' credit card, you lay both items, cork/foam roadbed and track lengths/turnouts over that. You ensure proper alignment while it's still gooey, and then you place soup tins, soda cans, spare tool batteries, or tools over the tracks until eight hours have passed and you know the DAP Alex Plus caulking has cured. It will cure almost clear, a bit yellowish if you ask me. You CAN use track nails, although you'll have to pick them up later. Same diff as retrieving all those soda cans.

You have to be careful. I have taken to laying lengths of 1X2 over tangents and shallow curves, and then placing spare tool batteries, glue bottles, and such over the wood. This causes an even pressure on the rails, and you're less likely to have dips and heaves where you don't want them. Naturally, the tracks will conform to the roadbed, so if the roadbed hasn't been properly prepared, all bets are off.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

*Attention Sideways**: 
Don,* in post #7, paragraph 5, is *wrong* ! *Electro-frog* is 'power-routing' and *Insul-frog* is all-live !
Power-routing (Electrofrog) sends track power to the route the points are set for; thru-route or diverging route, while the other route is shut down,, With All-live (insulfrog) both routes remain active regardless of the position of the points...*M*


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

I dunno Telltale. All of my 20+ peco insulfrog (ST-240+ series?) are all factory set power routing. I cannot speak for any other types in the peco models due to no ownership of any. Not dogging you whatsoever sir. Just stating what I have.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Sideways said:


> So, track laying. I'm not at that stage yet, but I want to know what I'm doing long before I even touch it. I picked up Atlas code 100 flex track, as well as already having a few pieces of code 100 sectional, 6 or seven Peco turnouts, and about 30 feet of cork roadbed preowned. I watched a few videos, and the majority of people layed down the track and roadbed using caulk, a few used glue/caulk for the roadbed and simply pinned the track down, and some just did the caulking techique but with glue. My question is: *which way is best*, and how did you lay yours down? Was also wondering if it would be more efficient to just use sectional straight on small sidings instead of flex.


This is a common misconception among newcomers, and it applies to more than just track laying. There is no such thing as an absolute "best" in this hobby. There are usually dozens of ways to do things, and they all work well. You will have to pick a method that seems intuitive to you and try it. If it ends up being less than satisfactory, experiment with different methods until you hit on one that works for you. Some things won't work well, like track nails in foam insulation panels, but other than that there's no real wrong way to do it.

My method: draw the track centerline on the subroadbed. Run a bead of caulk down that centerline, and spread it into a thin layer (I use the fake credit cards I get in the mail as disposable spreaders). Split the foam roadbed (it's designed to be split, as is the cork, and lay one side up against the centerline. Repeat with the other side. Check my work. Weight it (I use scrap lumber and leftover pavers) and let cure at leas 24 hours.

For the track, I use MicroEngineering flex track, because it stays formed once you curve it, so you don't need to worry about holding it in place while the adhesive cures. If the distance between turnouts is more than the length of one piece, I solder the joiners at the workbench after curving, so that I'm doing as little soldering on the layout as possible. I also trim the ties away from the ends of the flex track pieces (saving them for later). To lay the track, I repeat the adhesive laying process and put the track down, tweaking the alignment if necessary, and making sure all joints are smooth. Weight as above (although canned food also works really well for HO track). Solder any remaining joints, and solder feeders to the rails. Then, after trimming the spike and track plate detail, reinsert the ties I trimmed off earlier by pushing down on th foam and slipping them under the rails. I don't worry about adhesive. The ballast will hold them in place.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm afraid that my post 7 is CORRECT. 

The reason for the name of the Peco Electrofrog is that the metal frog carries ELECTRIC currrent that is passed to attached rails. It
changes polarity as the points change. Therefore, to avoid shorts insulated joiners must be in each frog rail.

The Insulfrog is plastic an insulator, thus the name. It is also power routing...if points set to straight, divert is shut off.

Long time Peco Ihsulfrog user.

Don


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

*Nope ..*
The word 'Insulfrog' means the frog (just like Atlas' all live switches [TOs]) is completely void of power, insulated from the 4 rails up to it. This allows the engine to take either route without any kind of phasing or polarity reversal of those routes..This is the easiest of switch control with the one potential of a possible stall-out over said frog.
'Electrofrog' has its frog powered and the phasing or polarity is set to become the same as the route the engine is taking via position of the points; the other route now dead. The virtue of this is near 0 stall-outs over frog..but is more complex a situation, route-powering-wise....


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Telltale, if you could visit Peco's site, you'll see that THEY insist their insulfrog Code 83 turnouts in HO are power routed. I have verified this myself with my own turnouts. I use a meter and move the throwbar to see if power leaves the closure rails depending on which way the points are set. It does leave the closure rails, but also the inner rails leaving the frog, the frog rails.

Insulfrog are indeed dead frogs. But that doesn't mean the four inner rails meeting the frog need reversing. They just get power based on the position of the throwbar, meaning which route you want to follow...ergo, power-routing. 

Power routing means that a wiper makes contact under the points rails and restores contact to the appropriate route. There is no 'polarity reversal' anywhere, and none would be needed anyway. Polarity reversal would be for DC only, but not in a turnout. Polarity reversal is for a conflict in phase/polarity where there's a power-routed crossover or turntable or reversing loop/three-way. You don't need to reverse polarity in a turnout. You do that elsewhere, someplace where a locomotive or an entire train can reside within gaps.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Please go to *YouTube **/* "Chadwick Model Railway" of Mar.16, 2018 " "20. Insulfrog or Electrofrog for Chadwick MRwy". It's quite a ways down the list of videos...This is what I'm trying get across.. 
(You may need closed captioning ). M


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

So you found one Youtuber who posted one video about it.... I'm thinking that's not a real good counterargument to Peco's official website and an awful lot of users here. Do YOU use Peco turnouts yourself? Posting your own experience as opposed to a random factoid you gleaned from one YouTube video would be much more helpful than simply discarding answers that don't conform to your view.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

telltale said:


> Please go to *YouTube **/* "Chadwick Model Railway" of Mar.16, 2018 " "20. Insulfrog or Electrofrog for Chadwick MRwy". It's quite a ways down the list of videos...This is what I'm trying get across..
> (You may need closed captioning ). M


PECO Insulfrog (The DCCWiki) 
Understanding PECO turnouts | Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine (model-railroad-hobbyist.com) 

This, I think, is what confuses people: the term 'power routing' suggests that the entire path, INCLUDING the frog, is electrified. Well, for an electrofrog, yeah....natch. If the frog is dead, as is the case with electrofrog, does that mean it isn't power routed? No, it just means the frog is dead. The throwbar still loses contact with wiper below it and isolates the point rail not lined up with its adjacent stock rail. This prevents shorts from happening. The insulfrog turnout, with its dead frog, is still routed for power. Only the route lined can be taken for two reasons: a. that is how the points go, and secondly that's how the power routes.

Please, wire up a Peco insulfrog Streamline Code 83 of any frog number and meter the rails. Throw the throwbar and see if you still get the same reading. My money is on an open circuit.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

It is an open. Thats why I had to wire drops to the diverging legs on all of my PECO turnouts.

I would have done that anyway, but for these turnouts to have constant power on the diverging leg they must be wired.

Not sure why this is such a difficult concept. It is explained right on the packaging.


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## Sideways (Jan 25, 2021)

@telltale, I appreciate your input, but DonR is correct. On the right is an insulfrog, and on the left is a electrofrog, no offence, but its not exactly hard to grasp: On an insulfrog the power only flows to the track that the point is set to because of the plastic/dead frog, on an electrofrog it flows to both, no matter the point's position (dumbing down what mes. posted).


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

MichaelE said:


> It is an open. Thats why I had to wire drops to the diverging legs on all of my PECO turnouts.
> 
> I would have done that anyway, but for these turnouts to have constant power on the diverging leg they must be wired.
> 
> Not sure why this is such a difficult concept. It is explained right on the packaging.


All of my Pecos are wired only at the points end. From there, power goes all the way through, minus the frog, depending on the route lined. If the through route is lined, the straight closure rail retains power, but the wide closure rail goes dead. This kills the entire diverging route, closure and frog rails, so that a wheel bridging the insulator at the frog does not cause a short. If the user feeds the point rails, then there will still be a short for wide tires that bridge the insulator. So, in order to prevent that, I either gap the far ends or I just don't feed those rails. That way, the points really do feed the route, or power it.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You're right, and I've experienced it myself with one particular TRIX locomotive with wide tread. The rails needed to be insulated just a bit farther from the frog than PECO thought they should have been. It runs fine now and no further problems with that turnout. This was over a year ago.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Maybe this will clarify my viewpoint:
~ All Atlas HO CustomLine switches (TOs) are the All-Live type. Their frog (unless activated by a DPDT toggle of any number of ways) is cold..This allows the track to be installed and operating with no wires to/from it..
Peco Insulfrog is the same as that [ Of course of differing designs/constructs]..
~ All Walthers/Shinohara HO/Lambert N switches, made prior to the advent of DCC, are the Power-Routing type. The points and frog derive their power from whichever running rail the points rest against; the un-gapped frog hot, deriving it's power from the points..
Peco Electrofrog is the same as this..
Do you still say I'm incorrect ?


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

You are correct. But not about the insulfrogs when you insist they are not power routing. They absolutely are. It's just that their frogs are dead. 

Aside from the mid-turnout hiccup of the dead frog, which is NOT meant to be powered in the case of the insulfrog Peco ( I seem to recall that the Atlas DCC-friendly Customline might be able to power the frog by tapping it from below, but I have no experience with them.), the route that gets powered from the points to the closure rail, across the dead frog, and on to the frog rails is the route whose point rail is making contact with the nether wiper (designed to route the power, along with jumpers you can see under the frog when you turn the Insulfrog Streamlines over and look).

Those curved jumpers, if you take a look, are quite obviously designed to route power. They only get it from the closure rails, which in turn can only get their power from their mated point rail lying against it's stock partner, but also making contact with that metal blade below them.

The Peco Electrofrog is power routing, maybe, not sure, haven't investigated, but I know it is described that way widely, across the hobby. I can tell by the name that it is meant to keep some locomotives that would otherwise stall the ability to use the frog power to keep going. Now, we can get into a whole nuther discussion about what is best, but I have a Walthers Proto 2000 SW-8 that would not go over my W/S #6 or Peco #6 turnouts. I looked, and found that one axle has traction tires. This took the wee beastie down to three axles for pickup. I contacted Walthers. The nice fella agreed that it was a problem design and offered to send me a replacement axle. I gratefully accepted, and two weeks later that switcher was trundling over all my turnouts with ease. So, if a loco, even a small one, is well made, a #6 dead frog turnout should not present it with any problems. But, as I said, that's off on a tangent.

To conclude, the term "Power -Routing" means that the route lined is powered across the turnout. It doesn't mean that the frog MUST necessarily also be powered. It does mean that the points rail not lined for routing is powered all the time...it should be dead. Otherwise, what's the point of calling it power routing if the entire rail set, through and diverging, is live all the time?


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

When it's power-routing (Electro) the frog is powered. When it's all-live (Insul) the frog is dead [unless frog is activated separately, but then turns it into a power-routing switch]. 
This will be my last input in this thread wrong or right...
Thanks, M


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

telltale said:


> When it's power-routing (Electro) the frog is powered. When it's all-live (Insul) the frog is dead [unless frog is activated separately, but then turns it into a power-routing switch].
> This will be my last input in this thread wrong or right...
> Thanks, M


So you still don't understand, and refuse to unlearn what is untrue. Got it.!


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

telltale said:


> When it's power-routing (Electro) the frog is powered. When it's all-live (Insul) the frog is dead [unless frog is activated separately, but then turns it into a power-routing switch].
> This will be my last input in this thread wrong or right...
> Thanks, M


No turnout used in HO is 'all-live'. This is where you are tripping over the concept. The insulfrog variety most assuredly is NOT all-live. For one thing, the frog is dead, as you seem to understand. But so are any rails not being used for routing. The point rails do the routing, and depending on which route is 'active', THAT path is the one livened with electricity...not the other. Therefore, NOT all-live.

Take your Peco turnout of the insulfrog variety. Throw the points rails for the diverging route. This makes the through point dead, the straight point. It's open because that route is not the one intended, and it's also dead. Meter it for crying out loud and see for yourself. Why is it dead if it's 'all-live'? How can it be live AND DEAD at the same time? It isn't, it can't be, and it was designed precisely to be that way.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

OK ! One more :
Switches with dead frogs ARE called "All-Live" because the 2 routes are always live, needing no insulators at the double end of switch !! "Power-routing" have a continually powered frog but points determine which route to take and determine thus the polarity or phasing of the frog and require insulators at the start of each route...
Summary:
ALL-LIVE switches have cold frogs and position of points doesn't change any polarity/phasing..
POWER-ROUTING have a hot frog and points determine frog's polarity/phasing..
Mesenteria,You state "No turnout used in HO is 'all-live' " Wha? Atlas switches are ALL-LIVE !
You in fact are tripping over the concept and the established MRRing nomenclature...

YouTube "Atlas HO switches", then scroll down to:
"76. Bonus Video - Turnouts 101: Anatomy of a Turnout" Pub Mar. 15, 2020

Peco Insulfrog are All-Live type (dead frog) / Peco Electrofrog are power-routing type...
And the entire run of HO Atlas switches have been All-Live, likely same for their N.... 
M


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Okay, so all turnouts are all live, and they are all power routing because they are all live. Got it. I dunno why they mention stuff like 'Insulfrog', and 'power-routing', and 'powered frog's, and 'jumpers', and stuff, but I guess it'll come to me one day.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

OK I'll throw my 2¢ worth in here.
This is a dead end turnout on the unfinished part of the layout.
It's a #4 Walthers Insulfrog type turnout with the only power from the lead in track.
The points are set to the tangent track and there is clearly power to the diverging track.
It sure doesn't look power routing to me.
No matter what I did I have power to both sets of rails all the time.
Even set the points to the center touching neither rail and had power to all tracks.
It's an "all live" TO.












These pics are a Peco #4 insulfrog turnout set up the same way as the Walthers was.
The results are much different.
Pic 1 points are set to diverging. Power to those rails.









Second pic points set to tangent track, no power to diverging track.
The Peco is power routing.









Reason being that there is no power to the diverging frog rail, stock rail has power.

Electrofrog are power routing because the two rails on the diverging route are both the same polarity, both will either be + + or - -. No current flow with like polarity when set to tangent route.
Same with phases for DCC. It's a type B TO.

Don't know about Atlas, would never use them.

Bottom line it depends on what turnouts you are using as to power routing or not.
And once you put power to the diverging track beyond the turnout neither will be power routing.
The only difference being that Insulfrog won't need any insulators and the Electrofrog
will need insulators on the two frog rails.

Magic


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

mesenteria wrote:
_"No turnout used in HO is 'all-live'."_

Not sure what you mean by "all-live".
Or that it particularly matters.

I use Kato HO Unitrack.
The NON-powered switches (and the No. 6 powered switches) can be set to "non-power-routing" or "power routing".

When set to non-power-routing, ALL routes are "live" in BOTH directions.
You can run through the switch in the "set route" or "against" the set route.
No problems and the engine just runs right through.
The switch points are lightly sprung, and the loco/train won't derail.

I don't use this feature everywhere, but it IS useful in some applications.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

mesenteria said:


> Okay, so all turnouts are all live, and they are all power routing because they are all live. Got it. I dunno why they mention stuff like 'Insulfrog', and 'power-routing', and 'powered frog's, and 'jumpers', and stuff, but I guess it'll come to me one day.



You are twisting my words !* " t*hey are all power routing because they are all live*" i*s *NOT* what I said *! *
I said:
If a switch track has a frog isolated from the 4 rails that converge at it it is an *all-live* (unless said frog has power added via a modification)..
If a switch frog is not isolated from the 4 rails that converge at it it is* power routing *! 
*In conclusion*:
*Power-routing* switches always have a live frog and one dead route, all the time. 
*All-live* switches...........always have a dead frog and both routes live, all the time. 

This *is* my correct and final post in this thread ..*M*


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## Geno the Viking (Feb 29, 2012)

Sideways said:


> So, track laying. I'm not at that stage yet, but I want to know what I'm doing long before I even touch it. I picked up Atlas code 100 flex track, as well as already having a few pieces of code 100 sectional, 6 or seven Peco turnouts, and about 30 feet of cork roadbed preowned. I watched a few videos, and the majority of people layed down the track and roadbed using caulk, a few used glue/caulk for the roadbed and simply pinned the track down, and some just did the caulking techique but with glue. My question is: which way is best, and how did you lay yours down? Was also wondering if it would be more efficient to just use sectional straight on small sidings instead of flex.


I use a Homasote base with cork on top. I lay my track on a very thin layer of caulk and also spike it down every foot or so. On the flex curves I always solder any joints before curving the track. Never have an unsoldered joint on a curve or it could kink. I use flex track for everything. Have fun.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

telltale said:


> You are twisting my words !* " t*hey are all power routing because they are all live*" i*s *NOT* what I said *! *
> I said:
> If a switch track has a frog isolated from the 4 rails that converge at it it is an *all-live* (unless said frog has power added via a modification)..
> If a switch frog is not isolated from the 4 rails that converge at it it is* power routing *!
> ...


This may be your final post on this subject but it is not correct.
Did you look at my post above. Look at the pictures.
Pic 1 is a Walthers dead frog turnout and it is not power routing. All live all the time.
Pics 2&3 are a Peco insulfrog (dead) turnout and it is power routing. Not all live any of the time.

Two dead frog turnouts that have a different outcome, one non power routing 
and one that is power routing. The difference isn't the frog but how the turnout 
is wired underneath. With the Peco there is no power feed to the diverging frog rail
thus no closed circuit to power the train. It is not all live.all the time as you state.
The pictures prove it.

As far as I know, live (powered) frog turnouts are power routing for the 
reasons I gave above, when the points are set to the tangent track the 
diverging tracks are both the same polarity either plus or minus.
No current flow between tracks of the same polarity, hence power routing.

All this holds true for DCC as well, you need two tracks with different polarity or
phase to complete a circuit. AC or DC the track doesn't know the difference.
The trains do but the track doesn't.

Magic


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Give it up. This is a classic example of "TCBW" -- that is "Teenagers Can't Be Wrong". There is no limit to the mental and logical gyrations they will go to in order to avoid saying those simple words "I was wrong", and thereby improving their knowledge and expertise. ED RRR has truly been reincarnated.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

_ED RRR has truly been reincarnated._

CTV I was thinking the very same thing.
Actuality I kinka miss ol' ED, was entertaining to see the gyrations 
he would go through to "prove" a point.

Magic


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## Sideways (Jan 25, 2021)

Another quick question that I figured wasn't worth a second thread: I have an old Atlas station that I picked up along with the track (pre-owned, but still mostly on sprues) and was wondering if the station should be elevated on cork or something similar, or if the roadbed should be sanded to slowly reach "ground level". How did some of you do it and, based on the prototypes, which would be accurate?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

There are specific standards for platform height to rail head in Germany and they use three different heights with one standard disappearing with a platform modernization program currently going on in Germany.

The US probably has some sort of standard for platform heights too but you would have to search that out on the internet.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Never gave station/platform height much thought. My station and warehouses with track-side loading platforms are in my pseudo-yard area where the track was laid directly on the pink foam, so the structures are sitting directly on the pink foam. It looks "about right" to me.

That said, if the track was on the foam roadbed that I used on the main line and the structures were sitting on the pink foam it probably wouldn't look right.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Give it up. This is a classic example of "TCBW" -- that is "Teenagers Can't Be Wrong". There is no limit to the mental and logical gyrations they will go to in order to avoid saying those simple words "I was wrong", and thereby improving their knowledge and expertise. ED RRR has truly been reincarnated.


There seems to be a lot of this "TCBW" stuff showing up in the news lately, and dividing the country's population on issues more important than how turnouts are wired and designated. On the news front though, the "T" may mean something other than "Teenagers." (If you just believe it hard enough, does that make it "true?")
Maybe we should be more open to seeking knowledge through evidence, and respecting the other guy's right to his viewpoint , rather than clinging to just our own.
Meanwhile, back on the subject of turnouts, the overwhelming evidence of the the meter readings, and the information direct from Peco, and the opinions of so many experienced members, is enough to convince me. That doesn't mean it will convince everyone though. Such is life.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Sideways said:


> Another quick question that I figured wasn't worth a second thread: I have an old Atlas station that I picked up along with the track (pre-owned, but still mostly on sprues) and was wondering if the station should be elevated on cork or something similar, or if the roadbed should be sanded to slowly reach "ground level". How did some of you do it and, based on the prototypes, which would be accurate?


This is where your NMRA track gauge, specific to the scale you're using, comes in handy. The side-to-side clearances for any railroad are specific, and that width is called 'gauge loading.' Your station, with any roof overhang and height, must clear the parts of the rolling stock and the locomotive by several scale feet. You can fudge all you want, and I urge you to do that in order to make things fit. But fit they must in the end or your rolling stock will make unwanted and potentially damaging contact with your trains.

So, what's a guy to do if he wants to see, and doesn't have a track gauge? He places some track temporarily, places the station temporarily, and then rolls things past the station to see what works, what he can get away with in terms of proximity, and so on. 

My trackside items such as water tower, coaling tower, switching tower, may or may not be elevated. If the coal chute is too low otherwise, when it hangs out over the track it serves, then I put the entire tower on a platform. Homasote cut to size works, but so would 1/2" ply, foam, whatever works, is cheap, and is handy. My Canadian Canamodel water tower sits on a timber frame, and the water chute is high enough, so it sits on 'earth'. The Life Like water tower has to be on a platform so that the engine's stack will pass below the chute. My newly constructed Santa Fe switching/interlocking tower sits on a thin flat styrene base well enough back that it doesn't interfere with rolling stock or the engines. So, it is set upon the 'earth' in the yard.

One final tip: I learned the hard way that not all my steamers have the same clearances. An extendable stack, such as seen on the ATSF steamers, will snag on something overhead that is just 1/4" above the average steamer's stack. My Rivarossi Allegheny H-8 from the C&O has a driver's side overflow pipe that descends from the right side of the cab. It's the overflow for the injector. It's low bell, from where the hot water issues, is wide and snags on tight curves and close structures if I don't pay attention when placing them. This applies to tunnel entrances, rock cuts, especially on curves less than 36" radius where the cabs of articulated models really swing out.

TEST! Don't make anything permanent until you have tested. It will cost you a lot of joy if you have to undo, or mangle, nice scenery and placed structures just to get an oops past them.

Note the Styrofoam platform under the coaling tower, but the Canamodel water tower, modelled after the structure still trackside left over from the Esquimalt & Nanaimo Rwy on Vancouver Island, at Parksville, sits nicely on a 'concrete' base. On my current build, the tower is okay on the dirt.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Magic said:


> _ED RRR has truly been reincarnated._
> 
> CTV I was thinking the very same thing.
> Actuality I kinka miss ol' ED, was entertaining to see the gyrations
> ...


At the risk of taking this one further off topic, telltale (that is, "one who spins wildly fantastic stories") has further channelled his inner ED by starting his own thread in the Technical Model Train Forum section to try to prove himself right.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

It would almost be worth taking him off 'ignore' to read those ramblings. Almost.


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## Sideways (Jan 25, 2021)

@mesenteria Slightly off topic, but is it bad that I thought on first glance that your pic was real?! Thats an insane scene! Thanks for the pointers and I'll be sure to follow them (took a screenshot for good measure😉)


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## Sideways (Jan 25, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> At the risk of taking this one further off topic, telltale (that is, "one who spins wildly fantastic stories") has further channelled his inner ED by starting his own thread in the Technical Model Train Forum section to try to prove himself right.


Not sure who ED is, but its not relevant. Just wanted to apologize for creating a thread that just flamed up some drama, an also say another thanks to all who answered the initial questions. How do you block someone, no sense in getting myself confused.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Sideways said:


> Not sure who ED is, but its not relevant. Just wanted to apologize for creating a thread that just flamed up some drama, an also say another thanks to all who answered the initial questions. How do you block someone, no sense in getting myself confused.


Sideways;

None of the drama is your fault, we weird old geezers just went a bit crazy. If any apology is needed it should come from me, and the others who hijacked your simple thread. I'm sorry. On the old forum format, there was something called the "Ignore list, where you could list any members you didn't care to hear from. I think it's still available in the new format but I'm not sure how you would get to it. It should be an option in editing your personal profile, but I'll leave that to someone who knows more about the new format.

Traction Fan


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Yep certainly wasn't your fault the thread went off the rails (Pun intended).
You asked a good question and things went sideways (one more pun) on us. 
We will be more respectful in the future if you have more questions. 

Sorry Magic


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

traction fan said:


> Sideways;
> 
> None of the drama is your fault, we weird old geezers just went a bit crazy. If any apology is needed it should come from me, and the others who hijacked your simple thread. I'm sorry. On the old forum format, there was something called the "Ignore list, where you could list any members you didn't care to hear from. I think it's still available in the new format but I'm not sure how you would get to it. It should be an option in editing your personal profile, but I'll leave that to someone who knows more about the new format.
> 
> Traction Fan


To ignore someone, hover your pointer over their name on the right, when their info window comes up click the three dots in the upper right corner and choose Ignore.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I apologize -- the off topic was mostly on me. Unfortunately, some members post bad information that is worse than unhelpful... you can't ignore them, because someone has to clean up the mess.


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