# A little Hopper help please



## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

My son found these in a box at a flea market $5.

Passenger cars are Rivarossi, plastic hopper is Varney, the diecasts are a mystery. Some one removed the trucks, looking for them too.

thanks


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

They look like old MDC ore cars.....now owned by Athearn.....


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Good candidates for weathering and some custom ore loads.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

I have searched for those couplerless trucks for the ore cars to no happiness. Anyone have a source? 

Thanks


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

The Tichy archbar trucks would be good on those die cast hoppers, about the right era ... you can also use the plastic wheels that come with them, or for a bit of added weight use the Intermountain wheelsets


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

wvgca said:


> The Tichy archbar trucks would be good on those die cast hoppers, about the right era ... you can also use the plastic wheels that come with them, or for a bit of added weight use the Intermountain wheelsets


Thanks, found these on ebay, they offer several different types. Thought these would be good. Guess some assembly is required. Price is reasonable.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

yes, they glue together .. i used Dr. mike's CA for delrin on those ..


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

it's also a good idea to replace the couplers, although you use those horn/hook in a set ..


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

wvgca said:


> it's also a good idea to replace the couplers, although you use those horn/hook in a set ..


I have a mixture of NMRA and Kadee couplers. I think those are diecast also.

Coal cars are new to me. Don't know what loco to use them with. Thinking this:

Thanks for your help.

Bob


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

that loco is probably close to the correct era for the hoppers ...
and the hoppers are easy to paint, just a rattle can of red oxide primer, lol


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Actually they are, or at least were referred to as 'ore jennies' back in the 1950s...If one is modeling 50s or earlier they would be called jennies...I believe in contemporary RRing my guess they are standard, large hoppers,..or perhaps tall-sided gondolas. I don't know if the diminutive jennies are still in use today...
I have that same Bmann 4-4-0 and their 4-6-0. Both little gems; great running and great details.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

telltale said:


> Actually they are, or at least were referred to as 'ore jennies' back in the 1950s...If one is modeling 50s or earlier they would be called jennies...I believe in contemporary RRing my guess they are standard, large hoppers,..or perhaps tall-sided gondolas. I don't know if the diminutive jennies are still in use today...
> I have that same Bmann 4-4-0 and their 4-6-0. Both little gems; great running and great details.


Ore jennies are a specialized type of hopper car designed exclusively to haul heavy loads of iron ore. The car's history can trace its roots back to the mid-1800s although as Mike Schafer notes in his book, "Freight Train Cars," it wasn't until the end of that century when vast veins of ore were discovered in the Upper Midwest did the car become a common sight, at least in those regions where mining operations were located. Notable carries such as the Milwaukee Road, Chicago & North Western, Soo Line, and especially the Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range all handle considerable amounts of ore and derived a significant portion of the revenue from such. Today, despite a sharp decrease in domestic production jennies can still be found in service.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Thanks Don...


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

telltale said:


> Thanks Don...


You're welcome. I was curious myself, so I looked it up.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

wvgca said:


> yes, they glue together .. i used Dr. mike's CA for delrin on those ..


 I checked their website, looks like they don't make them any more. Grabbed those, but I need about five sets.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

rsv1ho said:


> I have a mixture of NMRA and Kadee couplers. I think those are diecast also.
> 
> Coal cars are new to me. Don't know what loco to use them with. Thinking this:
> 
> ...


Those cars are for carrying ore, not coal. Coal isn’t as dense and the car is bigger. Great haul.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Murv2 said:


> Those cars are for carrying ore, not coal. Coal isn’t as dense and the car is bigger. Great haul.


Yeah, I slipped back into calling them coal cars. At one time I used aquarium filtering charcoal for my gondolas. What would be a good substitute for ore should I decide to go that route? 

Wouldn't be able to do any if I can't find trucks for them, but so far I have only scared up one set.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

rsv1ho said:


> Yeah, I slipped back into calling them coal cars. At one time I used aquarium filtering charcoal for my gondolas. What would be a good substitute for ore should I decide to go that route?
> 
> Wouldn't be able to do any if I can't find trucks for them, but so far I have only scared up one set.


You could order them direct:
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3035/Default.aspx


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Murv2 said:


> You could order them direct:
> https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3035/Default.aspx


Thanks, done within seconds. 

Eighteen something for 10 pair shipped with WV tax. 

Somethings wrong with me or my search engine, I looked for their site and could not find it. On my favorite places now.

Thanks again...……...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Actually, I did a Google search for "ore jenny", and after looking at the images (real ones, not models), I didn't see one picture of a jenny with arch bar trucks.....hwell:

I don't believe arch bar trucks were designed to carry the enormous weight of heavy ore.....


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

This is an O gauge ore load I make using red gravel that is used as concrete sand or for a bed for paver bricks. For HO, it would need to be screened through a sifter finer then standard window screen, which I use for O gauge. A dry brush application of red oxide dye can be used lightly to add a bit more red here and there. You can also go to a paint store, and ask for a small container of fuchsia red coloring tint, and dry brush sparingly.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> Actually, I did a Google search for "ore jenny", and after looking at the images (real ones, not models), I didn't see one picture of a jenny with arch bar trucks.....hwell:
> 
> I don't believe arch bar trucks were designed to carry the enormous weight of heavy ore.....


I found this Varney ore car on ebay, there are others. I'm not a stickler for authenticity so I think the ones I bought will do if they fit correctly.

And thanks Don, I will look into it.

Bob


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

wvgca said:


> The Tichy archbar trucks would be good on those die cast hoppers, about the right era ... you can also use the plastic wheels that come with them, or for a bit of added weight use the Intermountain wheelsets


Got them in today. Fast shipping and they included a catalog.

Assembly looks complicated, thankfully they included instructions.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Keep us posted during your progress.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

You might find this site helpful if you ever want to model the appropriate truck on a given car.....

https://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/4/c/c/mr_pi_5-06_freightcartrucks.pdf


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

*Varney*

I too ended up with a couple of Varney ore cars from a 'lot' purchase. I like them regardlees of no actual use in the layout. Although complete, they need some tlc. Coupler replacement a must do. Trucks and wheels are all plastic, bettendorf style and sprung. Boo. Get around to changing to unsprung & metal wheels eventually I guess.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> You might find this site helpful if you ever want to model the appropriate truck on a given car.....
> 
> https://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/4/c/c/mr_pi_5-06_freightcartrucks.pdf


That's a great read OH. Turns out a "Truck" just isn't something that holds something up but a rolling mathematical equation.

Different strokes for different folks and different trucks for different applications. 

Enjoyed it all but especially the last part pertaining to HO gauge trucks and NMRA specs. 

Thanks 

Bob


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

Ironically, I was about to start a thread asking about the difference in truck names and styles. I decided to intergoogleweb it first by typing in archbar trucks. I came up with the same link that Old Hobo presented. It is indeed a good read! I learned what I wanted to know about and, quite a bit more as well. Considering that most of my railroad theme is/will be based on the late 1800's up into about 1920-ish, archbar trucks will prevail wherever I can do so. By no means a rivet counter here but, if I'm purchasing replacement trucks well...


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

kilowatt62 said:


> Ironically, I was about to start a thread asking about the difference in truck names and styles. I decided to intergoogleweb it first by typing in archbar trucks. I came up with the same link that Old Hobo presented. It is indeed a good read! I learned what I wanted to know about and, quite a bit more as well. Considering that most of my railroad theme is/will be based on the late 1800's up into about 1920-ish, archbar trucks will prevail wherever I can do so. By no means a rivet counter here but, if I'm purchasing replacement trucks well...


Wish I had your foresight KW. I just jumped in with both feet not knowing which way they were heading. 

I like that era too and have several Bachmann Spectrums that fit within it. But my main obsession starts perhaps a little earlier with the American 4-4-0's. 

I will be paying a bit more attention to trucks going forward.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

rsv1ho said:


> Wish I had your foresight KW. I just jumped in with both feet not knowing which way they were heading.
> 
> I like that era too and have several Bachmann Spectrums that fit within it. But my main obsession starts perhaps a little earlier with the American 4-4-0's.
> 
> I will be paying a bit more attention to trucks going forward.


My favorite engine, those are gorgeous! Here are a couple of mine, both from Tyco General kits.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Those really are gorgeous Locomotives. I like the mortar on the flat car. Nice touch. Looks like you have Bachmann track and a roundtable and houses maybe. 

I bought two trashed Tyco/Mantua Generals and made one good one out of the two. Heavy diecast I media blasted the best body and transferred missing pieces from the other. The tender is a work in progress.

But, most of mine of that era are AHM/IHC imports mostly built by Pocher. Found a rather rare Hinkley not to long ago.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

wvgca said:


> yes, they glue together .. i used Dr. mike's CA for delrin on those ..


Started to put one together. 

Takes steady hands to assemble all those small parts. Will CA hold those plastic parts together well? I thought a drop of Testers red tube plastic cement? 

Thanks


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Don F said:


> Keep us posted during your progress.


Ok, let me start by saying that I'm not good at this, not because of lack of ability or desire but by shaky hands that started in my 70's, a heredity pass-down from my mother whose hands shook until we lost her at age 104. 

Even with steady hands this would be a challenge. Tiny parts, the bearings that fit into the side frames are not much larger that the head of a common pin and tweezers are no help. The bearings just pop right out. Best bet is to drop them into the hole, hope for the best and press them in with your thumb. Then cement the side frames into the bolster. I used Testor's red tube cement as it's forgiving because you have to insert the wheels into the bearings angling the side frames while doing so, then square everything up. 

On this one, I chose not to use the "springplanks". no way I was going to get them to work. I just cemented the bottom bolster in and left it at that. I'm not a stickler for authenticity. They do not supply a securing pin, you have to use what came on the car. I used a #2 brass screw that was a perfect fit and insured the tension was correct before I cemented in the bottom piece. 

All in all, I'm not a fan. Finicky things to assemble but they seem to work. I will know more tomorrow when I set it up on the layout and haul it around with something.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Easy for me to say now, but there are easier/better trucks that you could have used....as I said before, for those "jennies", I never found one photo with those types of trucks on it......probably due to the very heavy load limits of those ore cars...

Accurail makes the best trucks I have found, even Intermountain is using them on their rolling stock now..... maybe have a look at their site for future projects......just trying to help.....

Accurail Parts


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> Easy for me to say now, but there are easier/better trucks that you could have used....as I said before, for those "jennies", I never found one photo with those types of trucks on it......probably due to the very heavy load limits of those ore cars...
> 
> Accurail makes the best trucks I have found, even Intermountain is using them on their rolling stock now..... maybe have a look at their site for future projects......just trying to help.....
> 
> Accurail Parts


I saved your Intermountain site OH, I'll look them up.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

As expected and no surprise my smooth running NMRA coupler equipped Mehano 2-6-0 locomotive pulled it around my layout with no derailments at the switchers even without additional weight. I think any RS (series) engine would be correct too depending on the consist. 

Most ore car trucks look like this but I saw a couple that resemble arch bars.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

rsv1ho said:


> Most ore car trucks look like this but I saw a couple that resemble arch bars.
> View attachment 540004
> View attachment 540005
> View attachment 540006


Did you happen to save those pics? I would love to see those cars with the arch bars....


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> Did you happen to save those pics? I would love to see those cars with the arch bars....


Resemble arch bars. I will see if I can find them again.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

rsv1ho said:


> Resemble arch bars. I will see if I can find them again.


Probably what I saw was a nice rendition of weathered model train trucks.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, arch bar trucks would be OK for those very early jennies; you can even tell by just looking at them that their load limit would be way less than newer, all steel cars....


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> Well, arch bar trucks would be OK for those very early jennies; you can even tell by just looking at them that their load limit would be way less than newer, all steel cars....


What is the truck style called in the 1 to 1 picture above that shows my model ore car? I can't locate that page again that defines trucks.

Bob the Conductor


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Go back to post #25 above to find the link to the truck types......

The trucks in that photo seem to resemble Andrews trucks, or a variation thereof.....

Here it is again if you can't find it.....bookmark it this time.....

Freight Car Trucks


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> Go back to post #25 above to find the link to the truck types......
> 
> The trucks in that photo seem to resemble Andrews trucks, or a variation thereof.....
> 
> ...



Thanks and done.

Keep on truckin'


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

The B&O used to haul iron ore in regular hoppers. Just a small pile of ore over each truck was enough to load the hopper car to capacity. It was odd to see a hopper loaded with ore with only a small pile of ore over each truck.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@rsv1ho -- Am I correct in thinking those are Tichy archbar trucks you're using there? If so, I bought a package of them once and I too was not impressed. I decided to use all metal Kadee trucks instead and have been very happy with them. If you want to continue using what you have, I would suggest a dab of lightweight oil on the bearings to hold them in the frames while you do assembly. It's a shame the Tichy trucks weren't molded as a single piece. I had trouble with the glue breaking loose or the trucks seeming to sag just from the weight of a metal-framed Tyco car on them, so I finally gave up.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

They are to put it mildly, a pain to assemble. But the final outcome seems to be workable and they perform just fine. They sure are easy rollers. The little ore car I used them on is now a gem to use. I'm looking forward to doing the rest of them. 

I found it best to use Testors red tube plastic cement to put them together. Working time allows assembly of the wheels into the trucks and final squaring up before the cement hardens. Put aside over night and the next day you have a very nice set of trucks.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

I completed four ore cars using Tichy trucks. Perhaps not the proper style, but they work. 

I found it best to assemble the bearings inside a box, these are small, difficult to seat and easily lost.. After trying to insert the bearings into the trucks without much success, I set the bearings upright on end and forced the trucks down on them. Worked much better. Then getting the wheels in the pre-glued trucks was maddening. Get one seated and try the second and the first would fall out. I finally used a clamp to hold them. Unless your really, really clever, buy assembled trucks. 

Lined them up on my new to me 0-4-0 Camelback switcher and had fun running them around the track. I'm pleased with this little engine. Hauls all these cars without the benefit of tires or Bullfrog snot with no wheel spin and realistic speeds.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Completed the fifth and last of the coal cars my son found for me at a flea market using Tichy trucks to replace those missing. Attached it on the end of the diecast cars but before the plastic Varney cars. All five are easy rollers, perhaps the best of any that I have. They negotiate all of my track well including a couple of turn-outs that can be problematic with no derailments. 

All in all the Tichy trucks work well but are a pain to assemble. Can't beat the price though.


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