# Shelf Layout Near Ceiling



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

My son will be 5yrs old in March and he's been wanting us to put together the HO scale trains I have had stored since I built a 4'x8' layout in high school then tore down and stored before college years ago. I put out on display for him a couple engines and cars. At the same time he wants to convert his toddler bed I built from reclaimed lumber into the bunk bed or loft I designed it to ultimately be. 



My wife thought it would be cool to have a train that wrapped the room up high so he could run it from his elevated bed to be. I've searched a lot for shelf layouts that are near the ceiling and just above door height. There's really not a lot of good layout / build threads out there to learn from. I understand most say go with a minimum scale of O scale to be able to see it but in this case we already have the HO plus he will play with it virtually at eye level from that height. So, this is a very different built situation than I've ever seen but would love to learn more if I'm wrong. 



I'm wanting to do this as cheap as possible and a minimalist approach (no scenery). The only trick in design is that I want it to blend in or somewhat flow with the look of the room. We have a custom built log home with white pine tongue & groove walls so I do not want to see plywood laminations when I look up but pine boards do not really bend easily around corners that I have to deal with (even if I submerged them in my tub and bent them into shape). So I'm thinking of going with MDF or still use plywood for the track base but iron on wood veneer edge banding to mask the laminations of ply. Really looking for ideas here. We of course love rustic looks and I'm good with rustic wood working so any ideas here I'm open to them. The braces could be tricky to make look appealing yet cheap but still be perfect right angles. Thinking maybe a bunch of decorative wrought iron shelf braces from Hobby Lobby when they go on sale ?



You can see below a rough schematic I laid out and I'll need about 47ft of track a little over 7ft off the ground with eight 90 degree turns I need to work around and two will be somewhat sharp "S" curves. Here I need your knowledge on what's the minimum radius turns I can have for these S-curves that follow a 24" wall length and the wall there is sloped as this is where the dormer meets the roof pitch. I figured the cheapest fastest way to build the entire layout is with 36" sections of flex track. I'll stick with code 100 I guess (nothing fancy). I don't think cork is needed as we wont mind sound... Or should I use cork for some other reason?



With this amount of track length and looking at the schematic I'd like help on where you think I'll need (if any) soldered joints or wire track feeders. Guessing I'll not have enough juice to power the train that distance without them do you ? I'll have a single line no turnouts, etc. if I do need wire feeders then I'm thinking to hide them from bottom up view is to lay them beside the tracks from above. Any issues there you foresee ? 



Oh yeah at this point this will be all simple DC. Eventually I want to up grade this to DCC for him and then I think the wire feeders will be a must (am I corect here?). Finally with a 5yr old at the helm I'm really thinking it's important for some kind of railing to keep the train from flying off the track or simply gluing a couple brackets on the controller to act as forward and reverse governors so it couldn't go fast enough to derail. What are your thoughts or ideas here?



Any ways many thanks for reading and helping out! I'll post pics as I work on this with a target completion sometime this Spring. I think the bed modification will be first though. 



I hope this post ok...



Room wall dimensions / schematic to work with








[/URL]



Closer shot of one of the S-curve locations

[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/CA3F26C3-4CC2-4485-B9BD-7A09C01991AF_zpsglrneeal.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/CA3F26C3-4CC2-4485-B9BD-7A09C01991AF_zpsglrneeal.jpg[/URL]



Broader room shot showing the bed that will be raised

[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/4368BCB8-A704-4C57-8D1C-6FAD9D33BAE2_zpspudkunbx.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/4368BCB8-A704-4C57-8D1C-6FAD9D33BAE2_zpspudkunbx.jpg[/URL]







[/URL]


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There is a beautifully done ceiling shelf layout pictured here
on the Forum. I tried to find it but failed, maybe one of the
other guys will be better at it. It was posted during 2013 or
2014.

I did find this video that shows how one guy did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzbzklqPaXc

If you Google 'model railroad ceiling shelf layout' you'll
get a lot of ideas.

Don


----------



## Mr. SP (Jan 7, 2015)

*Shelf Layout*

My home layout is a shelf layout. It is sixteen inches deep and goes around all four walls of a room thirteen feet square. The layout is four feet above the floor. There is a lift out for the doorway


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks for the link. I've seen his and it does look great but I can't use the white material he bought that must have been melamine. Also his video doesn't go into details of the build (such track set up, wiring, etc.)


John 14:6 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jlassen (Dec 5, 2013)

I did something similar for my living room.

I used pine shelving, and wooden brackets. Simple clear finish. 2 walls were 5.5 inches deep, while one wall had a deeper shelf.

For corners, I used a pine 3x6 piece of "desk top" made up of several pine borads glued together. You can make this yourself if you have a joiner, or most lumber places should have something already pre made. I used a jig saw to cut 18 inch radial corners -- Basically each large piece gave me two corners. 

Here's an image that showes the "1 piece" corner I'm describing:









I used my hand drawn curve (traced the track) to connect the deeper shelves to the shorter shelves, and after I cut the curve, I used a radial sander to make the cross grain edge look good.

There are a few different ways to line up the shelf pieces and/or attach them to each other... I screwed them together, end to end, using a angled jig to pre-drill a hole... basically one board had an angle hole about 12 degrees or so, that allowed the screw to start out atop the board, come out the end and screw into the board it buts into, and end up with the screw head below the level of the board. This angled hole, and screw is on the "top" of the shelf, and normally would need to be plugged or sealed, but since its cieling height it can't be seen. Here's a pic, looking down, that shows the screw hole I'm talking about. One hole is under the track, and the other is partially covered by a riser base, but I think this helps visualize what I'm doing a poor job of describing:









Most of my joins are kind of rough because I was using scrap wood with a lot of warping and curving... and I don't really have a radial arm saw, so its either take it off to a friends shop or get rough and wild cuts with a jig saw. But its been good enough for my purposes... I keep tearing it apart and changing bits, so eventually I plan on cleaning up the wiring, but for now some of its poking through and visible (defensive rant off).


Right now I'm only got 3 walls, and I'm using a Peerless point to point trolley system on one track, and a bachman trolley point to point auto reverse system on another line. I posted here a while ago about how this system is wired, with some photos. 


The peerless system doesn't allow for timed stops unless you add a separate module, but if you aren't using ez track, it may be simpler. And if you have DCC trains you want to run, than this Tam Valley DCC point to point system is perfect.

Of course if you are doing a full circuit out the gate, then you don't need to worry about a point to point system. 

I used the Bachmann easy track because its easy to tear down and re-arrange as I decide to expand my track or add elevated lines, and it has Long pieces (36 inch) that are good for putting down along long wall stretches. The bachmann auto reverse system can be extended simply enough without using their expensive "auto reverse track." Just run wires instead of using their custom track.

I picked up most of the EZ track on ebay, used, and have a mix of the black and grey track. It is pretty affordable this way.

Here's a blog about it's beginnings:


And here's a youtube video of one of its incarnations. One thing I added after the fact that really jazzed it up was some LED strip lighting along the front edge of the shelf. You can buy rolls of it on ebay, and power it with any old DC train transformer (I ended up with serveral old Tycho and bachman ones while buying up ez track lots on ebay).

Here's its current incarnation...


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I think you really need to think this through. Having the layout seven feet from the floor presents a few problems. Firstly the boy won't have access to most of the layout to deal with derailments etc. plus you will need to use power operated switches which will bump up the cost. If you just want to watch trains running around then it's certainly doable but something nearer floor level would be more practical.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Jlassen - many thanks for the info and videos. I do have a jointer so I could mimic your corners and I would use biscuit joints instead of pocket screws. I really think I'll go the wrought iron angle braces route from Hobby Lobby when they go on sale. Yeah I won't need any special controllers since this is a DC only loop around the room (single line).

Cyclops - trust me I've been thoroughly thinking this through this is why I've not yet done anything but research for the past month trying to learn, design, and beat practices. This layout I'm finding is very unique from the rest and is very specific in its purpose and how it'll be used. My son will run it solely from his bunch/loft so he will be eye level Se as if it were near the floor. I want to build it right so there will be no voltage dead spots and have the controller governed and turns set up to mitigate derailments. If that event occurs then I'll have a wire rail to catch it. Yes a ladder would be needed to retail but if built right it shouldn't happen. That's why I'm seeking help for solutions to how to space drop feeders, s-curved minimum turn radius for HO etc... All ideas are welcomed.



John 14:6 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. SP (Jan 7, 2015)

*Rolling stock Too*

In addition to building the layout right be sure to build the rolling stock right too
All the rolling stock on my railroad is built to standards.
Weight: one ounce per ten scale feet of car length. A 50 foot car weighs five ounces for example. 
There is a minimum of 3 1/2 ounces for any car shorter than 35 scale feet and a maximum of 7 1/2 ounces for any car over 75 scale feet
Couplers: Kadee couplers ONLY on my rolling stock. Accumates, McHenerys and other Kadee wantabees are not permitted. The couplers are mounted as per prototype using Kadee coupler boxes.
Trucks: Kadee trucks correct for the car are also required. Plastic wheels are usually cast and not turned so are not round. Plastic whels collect dirt too making operation less than perfect.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Mr. SP - many thanks for the weight suggestions. However, when you say built to standards and say something is required do you mean that in order to mitigate derailment or required to appear legitimately scaled to size? If only for sizing then I'm sure a 5yr old would not care either way and I'm trying to spend very little here. And use what I have. Likely would only be able to replace plastic wheels with metal.


John 14:6 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. SP (Jan 7, 2015)

*Standards*

The standards were listed above under
Weight
Couplers 
Trucks
I use a modified NMRA version. for my standards as regards weight . The couplers and trucks standard are my personal choice.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Many thanks. Any input on maximum distance needed between drop feeders for my intended ~47 ft single line?


John 14:6 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

I've read your posts, watched your videos, and I've looked at NMRA specs and cannot find the answer to my questions. You can see my room schematic I laid out in my OP and I'll need about 47ft of track with eight 90 degree turns and two will be somewhat sharp "S" curves. 

Question 1
What's the minimum radius turn I can have for these HO scale S-curves ? I understand it may be dependent upon the engine or rolling stock lengths. If so, I'll measure them and re-ask the question with that info added otherwise I'm looking for a general answer here. I'm wanting to use 100% of my layout with 36" sections of flex track cut as needed so need to draw out the radius. 

Question 2
With this amount of track length (~47ft) and looking at the schematic I'd like to know what would be the guidelines for how frequent I need to wire/solder in drop feeders ? Is it every 4ft or could I get by with doing so every 8ft or is it simply trial and error ? (i.e. put the tracks together with none then see how it runs and add feeders where the train stops ?). I'm only running a single line loop DC.


Any ways many thanks for reading and helping out!


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Question one. I think you are thinking the track will follow the wall around the S curves but that wont be possible, it will make them too sharp, you will have to even them out by running them out from the corner at those points.
Question two. I would think drop feeders every five feet or so. I have never had to wire such a long run in DC, maybe someone else could advise on that.


----------



## jlassen (Dec 5, 2013)

As long as you keep either end of the S curves at an 18 inch radial curves or less, they shoud be fine with just about any engine and rolling stock you have. The longer passanger cars are where problems occure, FWIW. 

As indicated by cycleops below, this will require you to start your curve out from the wall, and begin curving towards the turn before it actually crosses the plane of the corner. But it should be doable with a shelf depth slightly less than 9 inches... if you make the short run of the shelf deeper (9 inches), you can keep a more reasonable 5 inch (or whatever shelf) along your long runs, and accommodate an S like this no problem.



I run long passenger cars over the 18 inch radial turns with few problems, and the "s" you are describing seems to be more than double the length of a long passenger car... so just as long as the front and rear trucks of a car can't be in two different sections of the curve at the same time, the 18 inch radial curve on either side of the "s" should be fine.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Many thanks for all the input and suggestions! I'll be sure to begin posting pics once I start building. I will test the curves first by laying them out on my garage floor before building on the wall.


John 14:6 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

I completed Phase I last weekend. Phase I was converting my son's bed into a bunk/loft bed by replacing the short posts with tall 4x4 kiln dried white pine posts. I cut them to 82.5" which would make the height of his bed just right for him to be able to sit on the bed and control his train and be at eye level while still having the train above the door, windows, and closet.

Loft Bed in place







[/URL]

This may be far more info than most prefer but I like to know what stuff costs folks to do projects. Got my wrought iron wall/shelf brackets on sale at Hobby Lobby for only $2.50/ea. I'm figuring I'll have a brace about every 4ft or less. Bought 100' of 18 gauge solid wire for the main / bus wire (if that terminology is correct) and 25' of 22 gauge solid wire for the track wire feeders. Got them from allelectronics.com for $22.58 shipped. Got "tap splices" for 18 gauge wire from Lowe's for about $3-4. I hope 22 gauge will be ok here too??? 

Also bought a Weller SP40NK 40 watt LED soldering iron kit (w/ pen tip) from Home Depot for $25, Oatey H-2O 5 water soluble paste flux for about $3. Not sure if I'll use the flux or not as I've read mixed reviews on this forum about using flux. Not even sure this is the right kind of flux. Any input ??? I bought a spool of rosin core 62/36/2 at 0.22" thickness solder from RadioShack (30% off going out of business sale) for $5-6. 

I then bought 60ft (20 pieces of 3ft flex track) of HO scale code 100 from modeltrainstuff.com for about $84 shipped. Also got from them Atlas HO 170 universal rail joiners (48ct) for $2.50 and a pack of Micro Engineering HO 30-104 Medium Spikes, 3/8" (800ct) for about $8-9. Had to pay another $5-6 to ship the spikes & joiners as I forgot to order them with my track. Now I'll likely only use the spikes to temporarily hold the tracks in place while the Liquid Nails dries. I was on the fence about ordering them anyway. But now I've got them if I ever change my mind. I guess I could've used cork board thumb tacks too ? I think I'm going with the Liquid Nails route here to hold down the tracks. Any reason why not ??? Oh yeah, I'm not going to use cork or foam either. Not worried about track noise unless it's just ridiculously loud. Kids like noise and our room is downstairs.

Next was figuring how many 4x8 sheets of plywood I needed. This was really tough considering the 2 "S" curves and 4 corners I have to work around. Fortunately I had a few sections of 18" radius track and one short straight track section I could piece together and hold up to the wall and measure & see how they fit the curves. I have to make the shelving ~6" wide since the wall brackets are about 5-3/4" wide. So I held up the track configured into the "S" curves to the wall and guestimated the length of the "S" to fit the 4ft width of plywood and fit somewhat close to the wall space. Turns out only 2 sheets of plywood are needed to cover the roughly 47ft perimeter of the room and I should still have a lot of waste in the wood. I wanted it to look good unfinished and not painted so I went with furniture grade 1/2" thick Birch plywood for $48 per sheet. The cheapest decent looking quality material I could think of while being able to easily/quickly cut curves out of it and have it be strong to resist sagging more than just a pine board that's 1/2" thick. 

Below pics show laying the flex track over the 18" radius sections and marking the section to be cut roughly 6" wide. 1st cut wider and rough with a jig saw then moved it to my bandsaw to neaten up the cut. I'm sure there's a better way but this works too. I wanted the tracks somewhat close to the edge. 

Sorry in advance for crappy low light cell phone pics. I'll use a better camera once I get farther along in the project.

[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_0653_zps7b226c58.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_0653_zps7b226c58.jpg[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]


Here are a few pics after the 1st "S" curve is in place. Need to take it down and sand the cut edges in the end. Also note the notch I had to cut out for the beam that comes out at an angle.
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_0668_zpscc855407.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_0668_zpscc855407.jpg[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]


Tomorrow will work on the other "S" curve (should simply be a mirror image I can trace then flip over to install), the 4 corners, and then connect the curves with straight sections. I'm cutting each piece to join the other board exactly in the middle of each wall bracket to make it easier and look seamless from below. After that will be take down and sand the cuts. Then lay track !!! I'm also thinking of using simple / small L brackets as fence posts and running a couple rows of thin wire through them for protecting the trains from derailment and falling to the floor.

I love constructive criticism by the way so feel free to hammer away with your thoughts here...


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

I hate that I rotated the pics on my computer before saving them. Checked them to make sure they were good. Then uploaded them to photobucket and they were back to being upside down and crooked. Then I rotated them in photobucket before posting above and they still uploaded crooked. Well dang...what can you do.

Sorry


----------



## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Looks like you've got the hardest part pretty much done.
Going to look good.

Your boy sure seems to be enjoying it as well.

Magic


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Nice job, So far looks good. I think you need to widen out the board near the boys bed where he can have access to the trains so that he can change wagons, locos etc. Maybe incorporate a passing loop which would enable him to run another train. Otherwise there will be little operational interest.


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

The standards for not derailing are best checked with an NMRA track gauge. If you don't already own one they are available at train stores and at walthers.com. These gauges come with thorough instructions on how to check track,wheels, and clearances, to insure reliable operation.
As for S turns, you are wise to ask. These turns are a known source of derailments. It looks like your around the room layout will give you the chance to use wide radius curves. I would go with 24" or larger, with larger being better, When you come to an S turn location it is very important to have a straight section of track at least as long as the longest car that you will be running on your railroad between the right and left curves.
Do not go directly from a right curve into a left curve. That has caused many derailments.

As for electrical reliability, I would recommend soldering a 22ga.(Small) wire to the lower outside of every rail on the layout. Solder these to a pair of 16-18ga.(big), bus wires one running parallel to the inside rail and the other parallel to the outside rail. No cross connecting from inside rail or bus to the outside, of course. Dead short circuit! Very bad news! On most layouts the wiring is done under the table, to keep it out of sight. On this one you may want to run the wires on top, near the wall, to keep them out of sight from below. The two bus wires are attached to the track terminals of your power pack. Using this wiring method, you never have any problem with a rail joiner not carrying the power from one rail to the other. In fact the rail joiners become simple, mechanical joints and don't need to carry electricity at all.

Great project! Your son will love it!

Traction Fan


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

jfynyson said:


> I hate that I rotated the pics on my computer before saving them. Checked them to make sure they were good. Then uploaded them to photobucket and they were back to being upside down and crooked. Then I rotated them in photobucket before posting above and they still uploaded crooked. Well dang...what can you do.
> 
> Sorry


Must be an Apple thing...I just opened this page on my computer and the pics are oriented correctly.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

traction fan said:


> The standards for not derailing are best checked with an NMRA track gauge. If you don't already own one they are available at train stores and at walthers.com. These gauges come with thorough instructions on how to check track,wheels, and clearances, to insure reliable operation.
> As for S turns, you are wise to ask. These turns are a known source of derailments. It looks like your around the room layout will give you the chance to use wide radius curves. I would go with 24" or larger, with larger being better, When you come to an S turn location it is very important to have a straight section of track at least as long as the longest car that you will be running on your railroad between the right and left curves.
> Do not go directly from a right curve into a left curve. That has caused many derailments.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the input. I've already built this with 18" radius turns so not going back unless I cannot keep the trains on the tracks. I do have 6" wide shelving so I can stretch the curves a bit if needed. To test this I think I'll just tack down the tracks from the outside of the rails so I can later install them where they will work.

I also ran into several other challenges. The molding/trim around the door & closet are higher by 1.5" than the line I wanted to follow around the room. Then I found the windows were yet a bit higher than the doors so now have 3 different elevations to worry about. So, I'll first try that incline to see if it causes any issues or not. Back up plan is to level it out with the highest pt. 

To your point on straight ways within the "S" curves luckily I do have a good straight distance between the two curves. About 3 car lengths maybe so hopefully that's enough. I'll also ensure all rolling stock is no longer than 50' or 52' equivalent.

As for the dual bus line I think I understand you here and I do have enough 18 gauge to do this. Thanks for the tip !


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Three car lengths of straight track between the left & right curves should be plenty. I understand about wanting to use the curve(18"radius) that you have already cut the wood for. If you are not going to run long cars, that should work out for you. I recommended the larger radius because you had the room, (a luxury most of us don't!) and in case you wanted to run passenger cars, big steam engines, or modern 85' freight cars.
A trick you can use to make your 18" curves derail less is to use easements. These are short sections of wide radius curves(24" maybe?) at each end of the 18" curve. These gently ease the train into, and out of, the tighter curve. Highly recommended if you can fit them in. (Looks like you can from your photos). 
Usually the easement occupies only a slightly larger area, and does wonders in smoother operation. A common real world example of easement use would be a tightly curved freeway off ramp. There is usually a broader curve to ease you into that 25mph potential wreck causer!
Good luck.
Traction Fan


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Milestone ! - I now have the shelving in place. I had to raise several pieces as I mentioned earlier due to the window. I still have a grade, which adds some interest at least. I also decided to add a small bridge touch right in the middle of the longest leg. I had it so why not...my son likes it. There are still some minor trimming and sanding I need to do. I know there are several places I will need some small L-brackets for added support to mitigate sagging. 

Start roughly installing track. Right now just putting a spike on the outside of the tracks to temporarily hold in place. Once all track in roughly down I'll hook up some electricity and see where I may need to shift track or better level shelving based on any derailments. Once the track is in it's final spot I'll stick down with Liquid Nails then put up guard rails. The guard rails will simply be L-brackets with two holes high every 2 or 3 feet then I'll string thin silver wire through the holes keeping it tight. 

Here's a few pics. I also took a couple videos but have yet to post them on youtube. 

That doesn't look like 60ft of track does it ! I won't need this much of course.







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]

A little tight around this curve...we'll see if it works out.
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3122_zpsatbfyifd.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3122_zpsatbfyifd.jpg[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]

End of Bed
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3131_zpshytaojkk.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3131_zpshytaojkk.jpg[/URL]

Head of Bed
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3130_zps7domvdqw.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3130_zps7domvdqw.jpg[/URL]

View from my son's pillow
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3132_zpssh9mlvrs.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/IMG_3132_zpssh9mlvrs.jpg[/URL]


----------



## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

awesome dad level 16 achieved........ move to next level! 

nice job so far dad....the boy looks happy already


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Milestone ! - I finished laying the tracks down roughly. I pushed a couple rolling stock over joints and used a couple fixed 18" radius track pieces to make sure all should run well. I know it's not like it'll be with trains running but it was a good way to fix some mistakes I had made along the way. I only had to cut the tracks in one spot and I was to cut off about a 6" piece for fitting the final piece. Used a Demel tool with cutting disc and it cut quickly like butter. 

Lessons learned... Couldn't have tracks joining in the start of an 18" radius bend since I was using nothing but flex track unless the two ends of the rails on the same track piece were at least a few inches different in length. If that makes sense. I only had the issue for the first couple curves and by then the flex side of the rail had enough distance past the more fixed side that this was no long an issue in bends as long as I kept my 18" min radius. In most cases I started the curves way ahead of where I needed to at (as your feedback had suggested...many thanks) the expense of having the track a couple more inches away from the edge than I'd like. This will make viewing the train from the floor a little more difficult in those few areas but it's not that bad and really won't matter since mostly my son will be viewing / running the train at eye level. I feel this move was some added insurance to help mitigate derailments around these curves. Also I first tried to lay the tracks without spikes in the center of the ties where the holes are in favor of tacking a couple here and there on the outside of the rails so I could come back with Liquid Nails to put them down. This concept was too difficult when having to go up & down a ladder so much and using clamps to hold pieces in place while other piece got moved around. Found just much easier and faster to simply put the spikes in the holes provided (tie centers). I another thing I was glad I did was took my tallest / longest engine and put it on the track in the most narrow clearance areas in those two "S" curves. I moved the tracks around until I had the optimal fit while keeping the 18" radius curve. The reason this was more difficult than it would otherwise have been was due to the angled beam I had to work around.

Next Steps
I will be soldering my wire track feeders on each rail on each piece of track while running a single bus line for each rail as you have suggested to me. I am fortunate that the 22 gauge wire slides underneath the rails without raising the track at all since the wire is as thick as the track ties ! This means I will not have to route an area under the tracks for feeding the wire under the tracks. I would've had to do this all along the inside rail. Both buss lines will be mounted beside the track next to the walls so no wires will be visible from below but unfortunately it may slightly distract my son's view from above.

Good News
My sons had a wonderful b-day and got two really nice engines and cash for getting rolling stock. We have a train show coming up in a few weeks so timing is great. He really really wants the rolling stock up there and cannot wait. I'll update with some pics of his new engines and the track work maybe tomorrow. He had to go to bed before I could take pics tonight.

Thanks again for all the help / input !!!


----------



## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Sounds like everything is coming along nicely. 
waiting for the pics. Looking good so far.

Magic


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Pic heavy entry...

Got the first bus line in place now just need to rig up the wire feeders from one rail then I'll run the other bus line and wire it in. I used U-hooks nailed into the back of the shelves then used clamps to hold the wire in place around the corners until I had looped the room. Then I fed the end through the first U-hook, undid the clamps, then simply pulled it through each U-hook around the room. This went very fast and smooth since I didn't have anyone available to hold the wire spool as I fed the wire through the hooks. Could've put a nail or screw through the spool hole but this worked quickly too.

Here are a few pics of the tracks roughly laid. I'll put the cut away ties underneath the rails when I get done wiring. Just curious if not having them would cause derailments as they lay today ???








[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]

Laying wire beside U-hooks
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3252_zpsp0f4lypa.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3252_zpsp0f4lypa.jpg[/URL]







[/URL]

Clamped wire in corners
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3253_zpsuxxtuucw.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3253_zpsuxxtuucw.jpg[/URL]

Wire ran back through U-hooks
[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3255_zpsmy5eelvj.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3255_zpsmy5eelvj.jpg[/URL]


Here are some pics of the locomotives my son got for his birthday. I looked the up and they seem like decent engines for the price. I hope they work well for him. 

[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3251_zpscgtczqrg.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3251_zpscgtczqrg.jpg[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]


These are the couplers they came with (both engines look like they have the same couplers). The Bachmann says they are E-Z Mate. Does this mean they are the same as E-Z Mate Mark II ??? Are these ok ? They don't do the magnetic uncoupling do they ? I'm new to knuckle couplers (only ever seen / used the old horn & hook type). I actually never knew the old ones were called horn & hook until today as I researched couplers. I know everyone highly suggests Kadee's but the E-Z's should work ok right ?

[img][URL=http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/jfynyson/media/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3250_zpsvevba2as.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/jfynyson/Model%20Train%20Ceiling%20Shelf%20Layout/Mar%202015/IMG_3250_zpsvevba2as.jpg[/URL]







[/URL]


I'll for sure have to now pay attention to any rolling stock we get at the train show to make sure their couplers are compatible with the two engines and if he wants to hook up his old engines we'll have to swap out the old horn & hook couplers on those engines and old rolling stock. All of the old rolling stock will be getting metal wheels and possibly new trucks but for sure I'll be getting any new rolling stock with metal wheels unless my son really really likes a particular car and if they only have them in plastic wheels I'll just buy metal ones to swap out. Any issues you foresee here ? 

Thanks for looking and your suggestions...


----------



## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

First off - Layout looks fantastic! I've been wanting to do this for some time now but need to finish the room first. Makes me jealous. 

Couplers - lots of people like Kadees, but lots of other people like other types. Me? I'm an Accu-Mate guy through and through. The important thing is to be sure they are adjusted correctly. Get yourself a Kadee coupler height gage and adjust whatever coupler you decide to use correctly. The other thing that helps is to stick with one brand, and adjust them all to the same standard. They all work pretty well, usually they work best with their own kind, and they will all work top notch so long as they are adjusted correctly. Body mount usually work best (as opposed to talgo style - attached to the trucks so the coupler swivels with the wheels) but in your application I think either way would work well. 

+1 on wheelsets. Get some nice metal wheelsets and life is good. 

Keep up the good work and post some more pics! 

Been away for a while, but hoping to get back involved. Just need to get my stinkin' room finished!

Oh yeah, as far as the S-curve goes, it is usually recommended to slip a 6" or so straight section to separate the two curves. Makes life a little easier......if you can fit one in.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Smokinapankake said:


> First off - Layout looks fantastic!
> 
> Oh yeah, as far as the S-curve goes, it is usually recommended to slip a 6" or so straight section to separate the two curves. Makes life a little easier......if you can fit one in.


Many thanks for the compliments and as for the S curves having a 6" straight section its hard to tell from the pics (due to the angles I shot them in) but there is actually way more than 6" of straight way in the middle of the S. From end to end the S curves are around 38" long total. We'll see if the straights I have are sufficient once we get a several rolling stock going at once. if not I do have room to move things around.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Got all of the wire feeders cut tonight. I made up a few extras too. 30 total at 22 gauge and each are ~6" long. I stripped about 3/8" of the insulation off then bent it at a 90 degree angle.

Questions:
I've seen some folks trim the exposed wire to a nub that's bent at that 90 degree angle to simulate a spike head then solder that perpendicular onto the rail on the bottom rail "flange" but I've also seen some folks solder them on the wire parallel to the rail and solder on the entire ~3/8" exposed / bent wire. Any advantage to either method for my simple set up ? 

Some folks "tin" (terminology ?) the wire before soldering and some don't so which shall I do ? Does it matter either way ?

Some folks use flux some don't. Shall I do so or not ? 
Does it truly matter either way?

Thanks as always !


----------



## dasB&M2-6-0 (Dec 13, 2014)

Re: wire shape/placement....IMHO, either will work...the "spike" connection may be more aesthetically pleasing....your layout, your call....!!
Re: tinning/flux....BOTH will make for a solid electrical and mechanical connection...
The trick is to use the soldering iron to heat BOTH the wire and the joint at the same time, and allow any new solder to "flow" into the connection...Dropping solder onto the hot iron, then applying it to the joint will result in a "cold" or "dry" connection that will be brittle and electrically poor....
If you plan to do a lot of small point soldering, a good quality iron is a wise investment!!
I use a Hakko FX888-23BY Soldering Station....kinda pricey up front, but built to last....adjustable temperature and plenty of accessory tips available for various types of work....Good Luck!

May your freight ALWAYS roll smoothly...and ON TIME!!


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Yes, you need to get everything hot and the solder will then 'flow'. You will know when you have a successful join when the solder goes glossy. If you do use flux remember it is corrosive so use it sparingly and wipe off the excess. I've never used it as most solder has it incorporated.


----------



## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

I tin both parts that I am soldering and then press together and hit it with the iron. When tinning I press the iron on one side of the wire and the solder on the other and let the heat transfer through. I try not to put solder on the tip of the iron other than to clean it but sometimes, for very ornery wires or connections, a tiny bit of solder on the iron can help transfer the heat. I always try to keep the tip of the iron clean and shiny. I go thru sponges very fast  I use rosin core solder and don't generally use additional flux.

I've been soldering this way for years on RC planes, helis, and now my trains.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You'll probably find that it is easiest to solder your
drop wire by letting it 'hang' by the 90 deg. bend
on the rail flange and right down into the hole you've drilled. 

By all means flux and TIN both tip of wire and rail. Then
it will take only a quick touch of a hot iron to make
a solid bond. I carry a small dab of melted solder
on the tip of my iron to the connection point. That
seems to aid the heat transfer and quick melt.

Practice on a scrap piece of track before going to
the good stuff.

You might want to use a 'heat sink' of some sort 
to avoid melting ties. You can use a metal clamp
next to the joint or wet cotton either side of it.
As you become experienced you won't need these.

Don


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

So I completed half of the wire feeders last night and was really my first bout at soldering so I guess we'll know if they made good bonds when I fire up a train. It went faster than I thought (going up & down a ladder and on a bunk bed soldering).

Lessons Learned
Not sure if any of you have ever soldered while on a ladder 7-8ft off the floor but little things make it tricky...especially when you have no soldering experience. Before I started I realized I needed a way to keep the soldering iron up there and keep it from spinning around and touching my walls. Simply the weight of the power cord made it want to spin around and fall off the shelf. So, I kept a wood clamp on the power cord about 16-18" away from the iron so I'd have room to maneuver but not so long it still would want to pull the iron down.

Next Steps
Tonight I'll try to solder the outside rail (i.e. the one facing the wall). This poses another monumental task in my mind. I will need a good mirror that is stable (thinking a make-up case with a mirror that is easily moved around and can stand on it's own). The tough part is that there is no other way for me to see what I'm doing to solder the wire feeders to the rail without a mirror. I have the track all tacked down in it's place and the shelving screwed in. I will know tonight what it must feel like to be a dentist doing a filling on back molar !

It's these little things that make a seemingly simple / fast project very difficult and require even more planning than you would ever imagine.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Could you solder to the inside of the rail and not have the
mirror problem...that is sure to confuse you. Just be sure
to keep all of the solder down on the flange so the wheel
flanges don't hit it.

Don


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

I thought about that but my soldering skills (lack of I mean) make me worry far more about derailments if I try to solder the inside of the rail. That will be my back plan if I find I cannot use the mirror to get it done tonight. Hind site I would soldered each rail of each track piece before even laying it. I didn't think about this since I never observed anyone doing that in any video I watched. Oh well live and learn.


John 14:6 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Well done with that. It was every bit as tough as I thought it would be. I'm no good visual judge of a successful solder job but the trains will tell me enough once they get going tomorrow !!! Just have to add the tap splices / butt splices / suitcase connectors or whatever you want to call them, label them for the inside rail, run the outside rail bus line, splice those connectors, plug into a controller, add a locomotive and see if it runs! 

I'll take it for a couple laps then put up the rest of the L-bracket braces for the shelving put in the final spikes as needed, then build the guard rails, the run each new engine for ~30min each in each direction....oh yeah and take more pics.


----------



## Cobratrooper11 (Mar 4, 2015)

i like the idea... but what about scenery? it must be hard to create and maintain there!


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Cobratrooper11 said:


> i like the idea... but what about scenery? it must be hard to create and maintain there!


Yeah somewhat thought about that scenery. My wife and I were also thinking of a mountain scene panorama back drop until I saw the cost. It's mainly for a simple system design and we'll see what my son may want to see as he gets into it. He does want a turnout somewhere now...I actually do have a couple spots where it's barely wide enough to turn out...I think. I told him lets get this loop working first. The turnouts would give nice room to store some rolling stock.


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You really need to get a passing loop at least incorporated somewhere otherwise it's going to get boring very quickly.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Too tired and not enough time to get many pics or better videos but here a couple for you...it works ! These two engines run very well but haven't broke them in yet. Waiting till I complete the guard rails. My son really likes the engines coupled together and I was worried about the controller as it's a simple Bachmann that came with an N scale kit but it seems to run both of these just fine together. Got the extra L-bracket shelf supports in, all wiring done (one feeder I need to re-solder though), and I see no signs of the trains slowing or speeding up even with that one feeder off right now so I guess the soldering job is a success ! I'll take a pic of how I soldered the back rails basically blind/using a mirror.

Fixed a couple issues causing derailments (just needed to push the wire feeders flat with the shelf & one joint in a curve needed a rail spike to hold the angle better) and now I'm making the guard rails. Tricky part was that spike had to be placed on the inside rail flange but it's low enough to not cause any issues now. I decided to have no guard railing around where his bed is and below pics you'll see how I decided to build them to save money. I just have to install 2 or 3 more guard rails then run the wires for them that would catch any cars that derail. It's been tricky in the "S" curves being that the track is so close to the shelf edge there. So I made a couple really narrow guard rails for the center of the "S" curves and several I actually have to slightly push them under track ties. Doesn't seem to cause any issues with the trains yet.

Video showing the engines coupled and going around about half the track loop
http://youtu.be/JjOAtvJjzpI

Used drill press vise, hammer, Dremel, and some steel banding that I got from a salvage building supply place for $1.49 to make the guard rail posts. Thin wiring will be used as the rails. I think I ended up with about 30 of these.







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]







[/URL]


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

It's as complete as my initial goal was. Got the guard rails up and adjusted so in the turns the trains would rub them. I ran each of the new locomotives for 30min each in each direction and all went well.

Now just need to try it out with about 10-20 cars of rolling stock attached and see how it goes. Hope to get or begin getting these at the 3/21 train show!!!

I'll get a decent video together hopefully this week showing the layout and at these with the two engines running. Many thanks for all of your help in this little adventure.


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Here's the latest video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZHdF2CkS58


Will do another after adding rolling stock in a few weeks...

Thanks for looking !


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Wow*

I just watched your video. Congratulations on doing a great job under difficult conditions(soldering with a mirror! Now that's challenging!) 
It may be too late, but if you still have to do any soldering to that pesky back rail, try this. Remove the section of track you want to solder to,if that is still possible. then you can solder to the outside of the rail as usual. Assuming that you would have already done this; I suppose that removing track is not practical. If so, wires can be soldered to the bottom of a rail. ( I do not recommend trying to solder to the inside of the rail, as that is where the wheel flanges travel, and even rub against, when a train goes by.) 
The following procedure can be done from the front side of the back rail. No mirror should be needed. 
Between the ties on flex track, there is a plastic strip. Located directly under the rail, this strip is not always continuous.(depending on track brand) If your track has factory made cuts in this strip, you may be able to work a wire into the cut. If your track does not have the cuts, you can make your own using an Xacto knife equipped with a curved blade. This blade can be worked under the plastic tie strip, then levered back, like a crowbar.
The wire end should be "tinned", that is, covered with a thin coating of solder first. Also bend the end of the wire 90 degrees so you can hook it under the rail. Finally, using wet paper towels on top of the track, both sides of where you want to solder, heat the top of the rail until it melts a "hook" of plain solder held against the bottom of the rail. This "tins" the rail bottom with a little solder. Then place the wire "hook." under the rail. Heat again. Hold the wire in place for a minute, to let the solder cool; then it can be routed under the track to join the feeder wire. 
This is actually much simpler to do than to explain verbally; but it's still a pain. I'll leave it up to you to decide if it's any better than mirror soldering!
In any case you have done a great job, and made your son very happy! Congratulations!

Traction fan


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

traction fan said:


> I just watched your video. Congratulations on doing a great job under difficult conditions(soldering with a mirror! Now that's challenging!)
> It may be too late, but if you still have to do any soldering to that pesky back rail, try this. Remove the section of track you want to solder to,if that is still possible. then you can solder to the outside of the rail as usual. Assuming that you would have already done this; I suppose that removing track is not practical. If so, wires can be soldered to the bottom of a rail. ( I do not recommend trying to solder to the inside of the rail, as that is where the wheel flanges travel, and even rub against, when a train goes by.)
> The following procedure can be done from the front side of the back rail. No mirror should be needed.
> Between the ties on flex track, there is a plastic strip. Located directly under the rail, this strip is not always continuous.(depending on track brand) If your track has factory made cuts in this strip, you may be able to work a wire into the cut. If your track does not have the cuts, you can make your own using an Xacto knife equipped with a curved blade. This blade can be worked under the plastic tie strip, then levered back, like a crowbar.
> ...


Thanks for the compliments and suggestion ! I think a lesson learned is to solder the wire feeders to each rail of each track section before installing next time. I just didn't think of it before b/c I never saw this done in any videos I watched. Now I know better.

Thanks again and I'll post another video once we get rolling stock rollin'...


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That''s fantastic.

What a great boys room.

The whisper of sound from the running locos is going to
be a nightime lullaby. You might need to put a timer on
the power pack so it'll go off after slumber takes over.

Congrats on a great job.

Don


----------



## Mustang Gregg (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm starting one too. 
Yours sure looks great in the pine sided room.
Great job, Pard! 

Mustang Gregg


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Mustang Gregg said:


> I'm starting one too.
> Yours sure looks great in the pine sided room.
> Great job, Pard!
> 
> Mustang Gregg


Thanks for the compliments...my son and I can't wait to get some rolling stock this weekend !!!

How about posting the link to your project thread here so we can find it easily and follow...

Thanks


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Have your seen the ceiling shelf layout just completed
by one of our members?

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=26301&highlight=ceiling+shelf+layout&page=3

Don


----------



## Mustang Gregg (Jul 12, 2012)

No, Sir. But I will check that one out right now. 
I always like to get different ideas.
Much obliged,
MG


----------



## Mustang Gregg (Jul 12, 2012)

One had been deleted(?) and would not open as photos.
But the one came through with all of the natural wood work.
Thanking you kindly,
MG


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Sorry I've not posted pics since getting rolling stock. My son got 14 cars total at the train show and had enough left over to get a steam locomotive he had wanted. He wanted a big steam loco but we're kind of limited on size with 18" radius curves. I'll post pics of his new 2-6-0 Bachman Mogul Pennslyvania DCC ready model. 

I'll post pics later this week of the cars and various locks pulling. I've not had any derailments until I tried breaking in his new steam loco. There was ever so slightly a inward bend in one of the curves that had a joint in the curve. Only way I knew to fix it was put a rail spike on the inside rail (risky) but it works perfectly now! 

I made sure to pick out rolling stock at the train show that had metal wheels unless my son really wanted the car. I bought some metal replacement wheels too. I did make sure I purchase cars with knuckle couplers. We had some rolling stock already that had the the old horn & hook couplers so I went online and bought the 25 set pack of Bachman EZ Mate couplers. I do have a couple cars that rid pretty low compared to the other cars. Now I'm realizing that there are various coupler cover styles that I'll have to replace too with new ones as well. I need some new ones for some of my old rolling stock anyways. So, basically still working on the rolling stock but we've got about 11 or 12 that are good enough.

I've replaced the plastic wheels on some of my old rolling stock and on one we bought at the train show had the push on type wheel trucks. I took it off the more easily change the wheels only to now not know how to get it back on. I've tried pulling on the lower chassis to see if it'll pop off or if the bottom of the take pops off giving access the top side of the pin that fits through the truck but nothing gives. Please take a look at these pics and see if you can tell me how to get the trucks back on:








[/URL]







[/URL]


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Interesting.

The slotted round cone looks to be similar to the king pin
real rail cars use. I have never seen one like that on a model.
Is that the mount you are having difficulty putting back?
What held the truck on? The slot eliminates a cotter pin.

I see what looks like a filled hole just to the right that could
be a truck mount point also.

Don


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

DonR said:


> Interesting.
> 
> The slotted round cone looks to be similar to the king pin
> real rail cars use. I have never seen one like that on a model.
> ...


The round cone pin looking thing is what the center of the truck fits on. Like snap type models. I've noticed this type fitting on cheaper models like Tycos for example. The issue is that the cone pin thingy floats up and down so no way to reinstall the truck unless I can get behind or above that pin to put back pressure on it to keep it in the down position. If that makes sense. So I need to know of a way to either open the tanker or how to hold it down while I push the truck on...maybe some strong tiny tweezers will work. 

Thanks for any thoughts or input


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

Another question I forgot to ask...what's the easiest way in your opinions to make the metal wheels spin more easily in the trucks thus allowing the locomotives more easily pull them. I know they make a tool that supposedly fits between the trucks and bores them out. Is that what I need? I read some bad reviews of that device saying it doesn't really fit well and that its back ordered anyways. I think it's the Reboxx Exxact Socket Tool.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If the axle points are wider than your truck side frames
you would want to ream them out a bit. I used one of
my hobby knife blades and it came out fine. You want to
try to retain the inverse cone shape.

I also always add in a puff of graphite or the white equivalent
as a lube.

Many of the cars are held together by friction or obscure 
tabs. You might check closely looking for where parts
are joined. See if one side will flex. You might be able to
get access to that 'cone'.

What in the truck would hold it to the cone?

Don


----------



## jfynyson (Nov 10, 2014)

DonR said:


> If the axle points are wider than your truck side frames
> you would want to ream them out a bit. I used one of
> my hobby knife blades and it came out fine. You want to
> try to retain the inverse cone shape.
> ...


I looked and looked and pulled and pried to get darn thing apart and I really do not see a way without breaking it. The truck is held on by that pin or cone thingy. It's hard to see in the pic but it has a slight flange on it so it snaps into place. Just need a way to keep it extended down while I push the truck up onto it. 

Looking at it closely again I just had a thought... Maybe I could drill a tiny hole in the pin thingy shaft and insert a needle to allow it to stay in place while I push up with the truck. Like how a cotter pin works... Once the truck is on I could out the needle?


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

So it's the opposite of some Tyco trucks that have
the two barbed plastic 'king pins' that snap into
the hole in the bolster.

I was wondering also if you couldn't drill a hole to
hold it.

I had the same problem installing a new edger blade.
The bolts were not accessible and they would push
up into the motor cavity. I finally found an inverse
tweezer to hold them out.

Don


----------

