# HELP I Need Input To Decide MTH vs Lionel



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Just Last month I was shopping at BJ's Club here in Miami and Saw a Lionel O gauge train set running around a christmas tree display for 199.99. The sign said it smoked and had a whistle, but I could not make it do either

Instantly I went back into my youth and wanted trains again, I was hooked.

I went to a place in N Miami called Ready to Run trains and met a nice guy there that started to show me stuff and all of a sudden I was shown MTH O gauge and introduced to remote control and Proto sound 3.

I went back to BJ's and started to notice things about the Lionel train set, the cow catcher was broken off and one of the cars had a broken coupler, today I went back with my wife and sister in law for their opinions and the train was a mess, the motor ran but the train did not it just made a grinding sound, all the remaining cars had all the couplers missing or broken and the tracks pulled apart easily

So we went across the street to a place called Hollywood Station Hobbies to look at his MTH and Lionel, he had both and once he fired up that MTH and it went thru all it's stuff making noise, smoking, huffing and chuffing, bells ringing, horns blowing etc the girls were also hooked I think.

He did not have a running Lionel with sound just a non sound train was running but it smoked

Here are my quandaries MTH or Lionel??? RealTrac or Fastrack??? Proto 2 vs proto 3,
Lionel remote vs MTH remote, Lionel Sound vs Mth Sound?? 

Based on seeing that Lionel Set at BJ's deteriorating at such a Rapid Pace I was wondering which is better built.

looking at set for set at the last place we went, the Lionel prices are averaging considerably less then MTH. I think I want to get one or the other.
I am wishing to hear what every one here thinks one way or another, and I have been reading posts here about the track Differences but I am still very confused


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For starter sets, MTH has the upper hand. You get a solid set with full command capability. The Lionel entry level stuff is a cut below the MTH IMO. The one weak point of the MTH sets is RealTrax, junk as far as I'm concerned, Fastrack is way more reliable and easy to work with.

Lionel has some pretty neat starter sets with the LionChief remote, and they are cheaper than the MTH starter sets. Of course, they come with Fastrack, the better track. The downside of the Lionel sets is each remote is for a specific locomotive, and the locomotives won't run with Lionel's higher end command system remotes.

Once you move up the line to the hither end stuff, it's a much more even horse race, and Lionel has the edge on sound and low speed control with the Legacy stuff, very impressive.

So, the bottom line is, if you want something that you're going to expand into a full functioning layout, I'd have to lean to the MTH stuff. If you want a set that will be dusted off at Christmas, you can save money with some of the Lionel sets.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> For starter sets, MTH has the upper hand. You get a solid set with full command capability. The Lionel entry level stuff is a cut below the MTH IMO. The one weak point of the MTH sets is RealTrax, junk as far as I'm concerned, Fastrack is way more reliable and easy to work with.
> 
> Lionel has some pretty neat starter sets with the LionChief remote, and they are cheaper than the MTH starter sets. Of course, they come with Fastrack, the better track. The downside of the Lionel sets is each remote is for a specific locomotive, and the locomotives won't run with Lionel's higher end command system remotes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info,
What is the difference between MTH Proto Sound 2 and 3


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There is no significant functional differences between PS/2 and PS/3. Obviously, the boards are quite different, and there are some little things that have changed for PS/3. The big thing is the "promise" of future upgrades that might be possible with PS/3. Current stuff will be PS/3 as a rule, I think the PS/2 stuff is pretty much out of the pipeline. Lots of shops still have NIB PS/2 stuff however.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> There is no significant functional differences between PS/2 and PS/3. Obviously, the boards are quite different, and there are some little things that have changed for PS/3. The big thing is the "promise" of future upgrades that might be possible with PS/3. Current stuff will be PS/3 as a rule, I think the PS/2 stuff is pretty much out of the pipeline. Lots of shops still have NIB PS/2 stuff however.


Does the PS/2 had auto uncouple too? 
If I understand correctly PS/2 cannot be upgraded, but PS/3 can be upgraded to whatever will be coming down the road in the future.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The capabilities of PS/2 and PS/3 are basically the same. Yes, the PS/2 locomotives have electrocouplers. The PS/3 "upgrades" are most likely going to happen in new products, not anything you'd buy today.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Asking which brand of model trains is best is like asking which car or truck is best.Every one has there own opinion and will seldom change it.
Try to find a place where you can make direct comparisons.A train show is a good place.Remember that there are different levels.Don't compare a $1000.00 set with a $300.00 set except to see what difference money can buy.If you have funds available get sets from different companies and use them for awhile to see what you like.That is probably not much help.You might also lokk at Williams by Bachmann trains.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Bachmann actually bought out Williams. That is how Bachmann got in to 3 rail O.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I said Williams by Bachmann.Any train dealer should know that.Many pre-Bachmann are still available also.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

And then there are people like me who don't buy anything new, because in my opinion, old stuff for the same money is usually higher quality. I recently invested in a $200 set of two 60+ year old trains, and have since invested about three times that getting it all together and running. (Of note is that I over-paid for two repairs that I was too chicken to attempt myself but now know that I could have done, and that's a huge chunk of that secondary investment.)

However, had I bought _only the track_ that came with my original $200 purchase, it would have cost me $1706, based on the prices on the Lionel website. That leaves out two engines, two transformers, four accessories, three operating cars, and six or seven regular cars.

Just something else to consider...


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

rogruth said:


> I said Williams by Bachmann.Any train dealer should know that.Many pre-Bachmann are still available also.


Not every one knows that.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

Michelle,

It sounds as if you did very good.

RRGrassi,

Most 3 rail O scale would.Also remember that I was talking of dealers.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

rogruth said:


> Michelle,
> 
> It sounds as if you did very good.


I think so! Then again, it has taken me _months_ to get it together and (mostly) working. Which is something else to take into consideration... if you want to just hook it up and have it going then someone-else's-used-stuff is definitely not the way to go!!!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

That's how ya learn about trains Michelle. I buy used too and it's always an adventure seeing what runs and what doesn't and how to get the repairs accomplished. Just sticking things together and turning them on is less fun to me. Pete


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

norgale said:


> Just sticking things together and turning them on is less fun to me. Pete


It's so boring to have things _work_ when you turn them on! What fun is that? 

It seems that all of my "leisure activities" drive me to drink...  :laugh:


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I have both new and used trains and I am happy with all.

Michelle,
Just curious but what ARE your other "leisure activities"?


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

rogruth said:


> RRGrassi,
> 
> Most 3 rail O scale would. Also remember that I was talking of dealers.


Yes I agree, Dealers. I did not know this until I was on Bachmann's website, looking for some parts to a Spectrum locomotive a few months ago.

I hope quality does not drop. Williams made some fine locomotives! Do you know if they have the same warranty as the N, HO, or G?


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

RRGrassi,

Sorry about being a little harsh,I did not notice the scale you work with.
I do think the warranty for WBB O scale is the same as for other scales.
The old Williams had what was almost a lifetime warranty.That was
changed by WBB.
There seems to be a push from some modelers to add sounds and 
some type of command control to the O locos.Personally I hope they
do not do that.One of the attractions for some of us is that they
have retained the simplicity of older trains.

Good luck with your own stuff and have FUN.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

rogruth said:


> Michelle,
> Just curious but what ARE your other "leisure activities"?


LOL

Let's see...

Photography, particularly sports and action; I love it and I'm pretty good at it, so that's a bonus. I used to do a lot of horse shows and dog shows, the occasional wedding. But not as much anymore, as anyone who spent a few hundred dollars on a camera is a "photographer" and that has become VERY tiresome. The last six years edited and shot a pinup calendar, but my current job doesn't have the flexibility of the old job, so that's done. (though still available for purchase! They make great Christmas gifts!  ) I work part time for a school sports photography company, doing team and individual posed pictures, and I am an affiliate photographer with Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep.

Dog training - We have three dogs, and used to compete in obedience, protection, weight pull, agility and conformation with them. They are all pretty much retired now, but we try to keep them busy with something. Because if we don't keep them busy, they make themselves busy and that can be bad...

House remodeling - that's just endless. I do all of our wiring, plumbing and tile work. We bought a home about seven years ago that was built in 1873. It was a rooming house for the last five or six years before we bought it so it had not had the best of care. Two years ago, we rewired the entire upstairs from scratch after I found out that the knob and tube in the attic was actually live. So new wires and then blown in insulation. Currently we only have one bathroom because we gutted the upstairs one, and now I have to replumb, rewire, rewall... well, re-_everything_...

I used to have a few other things too, but something had to give!!! My "I don't do much of that anymore" list is a little staggering (and kind of embarrassing!)

The trains are a simple "sit and keep myself busy" thing. They are fun to work on, take effort and concentration so I feel like I'm doing something, but aren't as loud or messy as the other stuff. I'm a programmer, so the rest of my life is digital, having projects that I can _touch_ keeps me sane. 

Sorry... probably more than you were looking for! :laugh:


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

It's really tp bad you don't have any outside interests to keep you busy.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

rogruth said:


> It's really tp bad you don't have any outside interests to keep you busy.



Yeah, no kidding. Maybe someday...


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Wow Michelle you certainly have enough interests to keep you busy. Since you have become interested in model trains what you need now is a nice layout with dcc and coupled to a computer to run them. That should be somewhat of a challange for you and one that you could enjoy a lot. 
I see your in Rochester and I imagine your having some pretty cold and snowy weather lately. I used to go to school at Manlius down near Syracuse and I darned near froze to death there. Good thing I was very young then and thought it a lot of fun in the winter. Pete


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Go with MTH as long as your going to spend the money for O scale. Pete


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

norgale said:


> Wow Michelle you certainly have enough interests to keep you busy. Since you have become interested in model trains what you need now is a nice layout with dcc and coupled to a computer to run them. That should be somewhat of a challange for you and one that you could enjoy a lot.


Yeah, interesting idea, but probably not. I'm going to be a "Christmas Toy Train" person, at least for the time being. Plus, I love my vintage stuff... and I'd probably have to use a PC to run them, and I get enough of that at work!!



> I see your in Rochester and I imagine your having some pretty cold and snowy weather lately. I used to go to school at Manlius down near Syracuse and I darned near froze to death there. Good thing I was very young then and thought it a lot of fun in the winter. Pete


It's been in the 20's for the last few days, but the snow disappeared just after Thanksgiving. My brother in law is a police officer in Manlius... small world!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

There was a military school there that I went to. Maybe your BIL remembers it. It's gone now and all the buildings turned into apartments and the land sold for homes. Too bad as it was a super school with a beautiful campus. Pete


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