# my final answer, lifeline phone call



## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

well, garage construction is underway. so I'm down to my final layout plans.
I've 4 choices. any thoughts on any of them would be nice. as in, 'man, that is totally not going to be viable. lol. any thoughts or responses are good. I want tunnels, and bridges , two loops would be nice, but not necessary, operations would be nice icing on the cake. not having operated a train, I'm not sure what makes for a good operational layout. so advice would be appreciated.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I like #3 myself. It's a nice simple layout with lots of room for scenery.
I'm not sure what the purpose for the red loops in #4 is, but once you get onto that, you have to back out onto the main.
I like #3.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Please take what I'm going to say as constructive criticism. I've set up quite a few layout and your layout has a few killer flaws.
The overall bench layout is great, easy access to all areas, very workable use of space!
All 4 of your designs are mono directional you really want bidirectional.
You set up a train and it's stuck going the same direction until you physically take it off the rails and turn it around. You need at least one reverse loop two is better to get out of the mono direction runs, It makes for much more interesting running too!
Most of your spur or yard tracks are way too short to be useful. A lot of switching is great but if it will only hold one car it's a waste. Longer runs with less switches sometimes just works out better.
I applaud your ambition in tackling a multi level layout, but some areas of your designs will have you scratching your head trying to figure out how to get the track there! The transitions from grade to grade or grade to flat are going to be tough to achieve. 
An area of major concern is running an elevated section of track across a yard and especially at a less than 90 angle. Running a high track in the front of low tracks will make it extremely hard to build and when finished will take away from the visual of both runs.
Avoid fast curve to curve transitions or curve to switch transitions they will only cause you headaches and derailments!
Design #2 has great merit and #3 is promising too just needs cleaning up.
I'm not trying to knock your designs just would like to see you get the most out of building it and enjoying it!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I have to agree with NIMT 100% on this one. I like the idea on #1 and #4 with the 2 different lines at the same time and an interchange between them but you are running on limited space and you are going to have too much track in said limited space. Good idea tho, I have been trying to make something like that for a while now, and have had no luck. If you want a second line like that how about a automated trolly line or something like that, that goes out and back using a device like an Circuitron AR2 then that can be done with the space you have. See if you cant put a reverse loop or a wye in that somewhere to turn engines or entire trains around with.

Massey


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

No offence taken at all, i appreciate the constructive criticism. I thougth reverse loops were a bad pain in the butt. I'm going dcc, and thought it was more than I could chew off. And on mono directional, I thought it was the norm. The red loop was for a dc thomas the train to run seperate. 

Is the pink insulation stuff better for a new guy to work with or should I go for the plaster of paris routine, with newspapers.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Reverse loops only need a phase reversing device like a PM42 or AR1 by digitrax. either unit will work perfectly with any DCC setup or even on DC.

Massey


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

ok, thanks


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Here are a couple of really rough reworks for you first is really close to what you had second is a little simpler to achive. Both have bidirectional running, in between the yellow isolated sections are the reverse loops.


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

ah, nice, and here I was thinking that reverse loops meant this. and now looking at this one, I forgot the bridge over other tracks, lol.


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

or #1 revised


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

the only problem I see is the purple line does not have any real yard to make operations possible there. there are 3 industries and that is about it, alot of tracks in one small space which will leave not alot for scenery. As I see it the operations are not going to be as interesting as the layouts that NIMT set up for you. I like his #2 layout but I would try to add a yard maybe on the east side of the layout.

Massey


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

ok, thanks, I do try to take it all to heart and apply what I hear. ^_^ one day closer to benchwork starting. ahhhh.


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

so, I did work with your idea there nimt. I did kinda like my rev1 but I bow to your expertise. ^_^ but you did say about all my original spurs being uni-directional, so i kinda changed a couple of your revisions #2 shows this.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

A little tweak here or there and I think it looks great, one of my ways of checking is to trace the track path and see if you can easily get everywhere without a hitch and you've done it!


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

I do appreciate your input there, the two X's i guess are to short and to curvy spurs. And yes, again, I woke up early and putzed with the train track program. man, I need to just delete it. lol, anyhow, once I started thinking of reverse loops, (only $50 apiece,  ), I came up with this. I'm ready now to rename it Dead Horse RR, I've beaten it to death so much. ^_^ this gives me some more bridges, not necessarily over other tracks, and a nice tunnel. just don't ask me what the thing in the middle top is, no clue.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm sorry I've dragged you threw the mud on the design portion of this.
Your latest design is exellent, I have no recomended changes on this one and I think you'll be really happy with it! 
It gives you a nice long run, you will be lacking a yard but you can always do a hidden yard later.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I was gonna put my vote in for the NIMT #2 with a concern about a steep incline on the northeast to north but I read on further and found the last track plan of the Dead Horse and Rivertown Ry and I like it. BTW Dead Horse sounds like an old time mining town name. I like it and I say get to the hardware store and spend $$ on some lumber... DO IT... DO IT NOW!!!

Massey


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

you did just fine NIMT, I asked for some help and am happy with your advice. a yard, dang, lol, maybe I can sneak in another line in the top. but either way, design is a process, and takes more than my old mind to get it right. ^_^ 

they are doing the wiring in the garage now, the floor should be mainly done tomorrow along with the insulation. It's gonna be nice to have my own corner in the world. ahh.


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

one final thought on a yard. I put one in each of the three possible areas. not to overdo it, with to much yardage, any thoughts on which one area to keep? I don't want a layout to be all track, lol, it is the scenery that makes or breaks it.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The extra tracks at Dead Horse need to go and be back to the way they were. A mining site is not going to have alot of tracks like that. The little yard in the middle might be doable but small and the yard at the west is also a no go and going back to the way you had it would be good. Oh and I like the name of your mining town.

Massey


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Here's my changes.


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

oooh, I like the tunnel movement, now why did't I think of that, lol. but do I need two yard areas?


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

I did want some more scenery on the top behind the tracks, either that or tunnel it, and not sure about that idea. so I left it down a tad. and had to 45 degree my corner for the new curve. but basically it's there. still not sure of the middle yard. the extra siding in Dead Horse is only 2'. still, some place for a couple ore cars, that would hold 6 of em. and it's on an incline rising up from the tunnel.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What program are you guys using to draw this?


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm using Anyrail 4 EN, it's only 50 pieces so I cut and paste with paint. 

and this poor horse is about beaten to death. but i added a yard to Riverton and skootched Dead Horse over a bit shorter.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Keep in mind on the mine that you need to be able to push a number of cars through the tipple in a single move (i.e. put the tipple as far toward the turnout rather than towards the end of the spur. That way you can fill more than 1 car in a move. With how you have it shown the cars need to be pushed to the end of the track before they can be filled, then they need to be pulled and moved to a siding before the next empty can be loaded. Here's a pic of my mining area for what I'm talking about


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

gotcha, I notice your cars are black and red, dang, the store only had red ones when I picked them up.  thanks for the info. far easier to move things now than later.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I always test the position of the buildings and other stuff before I make anything perminate. Get the tracks of the main laid out and working then test the sidings and industries before making them perminate that way if you need to make a minor adjustment you can with little to no trouble.

Massey


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

daughter asks, well, are you going to have a dead horse in the middle of the town. lol, all I could think of was animal house with four legs sticking up in the air. 

but seriously, for my grade, it's either 4" with a 4% grade, or 3" with a 3% grade. which is the wiser choice? or 3 1/2" and 3 1/2% ?

the carpenter left me a couple sheets of 4x8 left over, nice. I only need one more, and he says he can get me some 2" pink foam insulation for mountain carving.


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

just shoot me now. gaah, I got home and the carpenter had put the window in my wall. wifey needs it there and it's for summer air flow. so I need to be opening it at will, so I need a shorter shelf by the wall. gaah, I had just got back from the train store with a couple of reverse loop thingies. and a few more ore cars. so back to beating a dead horse, gaaah. just shoot me with a crossbow. . #2 seems to tracky by the wall, but not sure about the wiring on #1, I hope I don't need more reverse loops. ugh, it's new years eve, and 1 1/2 beers later, passing out time. lol, well, close any how. to tired to think, work was yucky today. night all.


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## kursplat (Dec 8, 2010)

#1, but i would add another siding going over the river inside the reversing loop


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

#1 has 3 reverse loops and #2 only has 2 Wiring for either is pretty simple. WHy the change? Could you not use what you had with the window where it it placed?

Massey


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

light of day, I didn't want to have to stretch across the layout to open the window. So with coffee and quiet time, one more thought here. almost the original. I'm about ready to put two dead horses in this place. now to figure out the benchwork and how many pink sheets to get. wifey doesn't want the plaster route taken. she is my work horse, er, um, scenery tech.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

FYI....even with the pink foam, you'll need to topcoat it with plaster (or something similar) to fill the gaps, etc.


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

I got a book on scenery, but the pink stuff didn't seem to be mentioned at all.  thanks for the info. I flipped the left side so there isn't any 'S' curve, i think it works better now, a shorter bridge though,  oh, well,


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## JohnAP (May 4, 2011)

I think I like the one with the s curve better


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## kursplat (Dec 8, 2010)

JohnAP said:


> I think I like the one with the s curve better


 +1...


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## MrDuane (Oct 21, 2011)

Just shoot me now, lol, after a days looking, seems a bit over tracked on the left. sigh, balance is so hard. and I had another quiet morning and couldn't stop myself from starting up Anyrail again. 

This actually seems a bit nicer to me. two reverse loops, actually sections, if I guess right, and not as symeterical. That was nagging my conscious a tad. and now two mining areas, and two logging areas. My ore cars are real short so I can pack em in, the log ones, will have to be shorter trains because I really don't want a 3' section of log cars.


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