# DCC Newbie Seeking Advice About Sound



## wongkw (Nov 17, 2011)

Hi,

I'm new to this board and this is my first post and seeking some advice. Just getting back into the hobby after almost 10 years. Did a lot of research over last few weeks an I've decided to get a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra system and hope to upgrade to the duplex throttle in future when finances allow.

I have a Kato SD40-2 snootnose and Lifelike SW9/1200 both about 10 years old and would like to convert them to DCC with sound. There appears to be a DCC decoder from Digitrax with sound SDN144K1E that I can install into the Kato unit with some frame milling or I can go with DN163K1B without sound. The Lifelike unit looks like a tight fit for decoders and I saw there was a TCS Z2 decoder that might work but without sound.

My questions are as follows:

Based on the age of my Kato unit, does anyone know if it would accept drop-in decoders?

I know the Lifelike unit won't fit a sound decoder/speaker, so would I be better off creating a sound boxcar to go behind either locomotive and install a non-sound decoder in the Kato unit and avoid milling the frame? 

Or do I leave them as is and buy new DCC ready or DCC installed locomotives. I do not want to sell the two locomotives I have due to sentimental reasons.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Kevin

If this should be in the DCC forum, can a moderator kindly move for me?


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

wongkw said:


> Based on the age of my Kato unit, does anyone know if it would accept drop-in decoders?



Take a look at the photo below. See the little board that fits into the top of the loco? Take your shell off and if you see that type of arrangement you can probably drop in a board (go to Digitrax to see what board to get). If you don't see a place for a circuit board it won't accept a drop-in board, but if you are game and skilled you might be able to use a wired decoder.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Kevin,
Greetings from just south of you!
Older Katos and the lifelike can be converted to DCC but I would avoid conversions to sound on both of them!
I have installed a ton of decoders in N and sound is never easy!
If you are dead set on sound then look at the MRC for DCC decoders.
Kato SD40-2 snoot nose 
#1806 Generic Diesel for Kato SD40-2 Dual Mode, drop-in, replaces oem board.
Still will have to alter frame slightly! Not a conversion for the faint of heart!
Lifelike SW9/1200 
Sound huge work!!
Tsunami's 827014 TSU-750 GE Cummins diesel switcher
DCC only decoder TCS Z2 , Digitrax DZ125, NCE Z14SR (my personal favorite)
Converting N to DCC is a little difficult but can be done!
I've converted a N Plymouth to DCC with separate front and rear lights and a strobe all on there own function outputs, that one was a little tough, but work out perfect!
You could always find some one like me to do the conversion for you!


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## wongkw (Nov 17, 2011)

I will attempt to remove the shell xrunner, never done it before so will try not to wreck anything.

Sean, I didn't know about the MRC decoder with built in speaker (too many decoder manufacturers to keep track of)...if my Kato will accept the board, I might just give that one a try. I read the install instructions and it didn't mention having to alter the frame in any way, is there something you know that MRC didn't document?

As the Lifelike is so small, I might just leave it alone or have someone else with more experience convert it for me if it's a reasonable cost. The LHS quoted prices equal to what I paid for the Kato and double what I paid for the Lifelike.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

wongkw said:


> I will attempt to remove the shell xrunner, never done it before so will try not to wreck anything.


N scale shell removal -


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The newer Kato N and Kato HO engines have a different frame than the older ones do. This is to keep customers happy and buying their products. The newer ones have provisions on the frame for speakers and the capacitors where the older frames you get a PC board or if you are even older you just get a slot for the grain of rice bulb. To remove most N scale (but not all) you simply squeeze the sides of the engine while pulling up and holding the engine by the fuel tank. If in doubt check the manufacturer for an online manual.

Massey


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Massey said:


> The newer Kato N and Kato HO engines have a different frame than the older ones do. ... The newer ones have provisions on the frame for speakers and the capacitors ...


Massey, can you provide me a link to a pic of this frame? I want to show my LHS and see if they can get one. I haven't seen any N scale Kato with provisions for speakers and capacitor.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

It was showcased on the Kato website a while ago lemme see if I can find it again

Massey


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

OK I remember where the stuff was about the sound decoder provisions in an N scale. It was a milling service that MR did an article on a few months back. They milled a frame of a Kato E-unit to fit the speaker and decoder perfectly.

Massey


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Massey said:


> It was a milling service that MR did an article on a few months back. They milled a frame of a Kato E-unit to fit the speaker and decoder perfectly.


Oh yea, I've heard of that, I was hoping you had seen new Kato units that were coming out with space for the speaker designed into the frame by Kato.


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## wongkw (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks for that video on removing shells from the frame xrunner...I gave it a try on the Kato unit and it came loose after a few drops. On one of the drops the front bumper (plow?) came flying off  I was relieved to see it was held in place by two pins that just slide into holes.

Anyways I took a picture of the frame and it appears the MRC 1806 board will drop into place. Also, I noticed on the front end, there is a black piece of plastic but it doesn't look like it will get in way of the MRC board. There is a front and back LED on the factory board but I can't find a good enough picture of the MRC DCC board to tell if there is a back light...I think there is a front light though. Is there a back light on the MRC board?

Any comments again would be appreciated.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

wongkw said:


> Also, I noticed on the front end, there is a black piece of plastic but it doesn't look like it will get in way of the MRC board.


That black box blocks light from getting out where it isn't supposed to. The DCC board you buy should come with front and rear LED - if it doesn't the manufacturer should be banned from Model Railroading. hwell:


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

ON that pic of the Kato engine some one has soldered the motor tabs to the PC board. These will need to be unsoldered before removal to prevent damage.

Massey


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Massey, UMMM that's a factory board not altered, and the new board will have the same clips, that's what transfers power to the motor.
You do need to insulate the frame with Kapton tape under the clips for DCC decoder, you also need to put kapton under where the speaker sits too!
And yes that decoder should come front and back LED's!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

It looks to me like the clips are soldered. My Kato does not have those clips soldered they just fit in with friction form the body and the way the clip is bent. Granted my experience with N scale is very limited.

Massey


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Massey said:


> It looks to me like the clips are soldered. My Kato does not have those clips soldered they just fit in with friction form the body and the way the clip is bent. Granted my experience with N scale is very limited.


I have 4 Kato engines and 3 of them had those big clips soldered to the board. I think the one that wasn't soldered was an oversite, because they are supposed to be part of the circuit board. They only make a press contact with the clip from the motor, so you can remove the board.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes, On some boards they didn't solder the motor clips to the board, I too thought that was just an oversight because the mass majority I've seen have been soldered on.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I only have 1 N scale engine and it is a Kato SD70ACe and my clips are not soldered. Love the little engine it is painted in UP 1996 (SP Heritage)

Massey


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