# Prewar #442 Diner Made from 1938 - 1942



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Prewar #442 Diner Made from 1938 - 1942 until the war was declared and factories went into war mode.

It took Lionel until 1938 to introduce it's first version of that truly American landmark,The roadside diner.
Lionel's # 442 was an accurate representation of the old railroad cars that you saw along the highways. NJ had a whole bunch of them. 
It measures 10,1/2 x 5,1/2 x 3 inches and uses the body from a Lionel # 610 Pullman.
Lionel painted, or repainted, these Pullmans- giving them bright red roofs,light red trim, and ivory bodies. Because Lionel had never produced the # 610 in "diner" colors. The plates of the 610 were also changed. The large center one now read "DINER" and the small plates to the left and right now read "EAT".
The body is mounted on a hard-board,free-form base, the bottom which is screen backed. (The board was most likely manufactured by Masonite Company.)
The little diner was landscaped (but only in the front) with two shrubs and a grassy, green sawdust lawn surrounded by hedges. The hedges ran from the left door to the right one.
The 442 was illuminated. (recommended to be run at 12 volts.)

Is it the only Prewar Diner they made? Well that's open to debate as a few have popped up through the years. (another story if you want to hear it?)
But none using the 610 bodies.
And the #442 is the only one that was cataloged.




I cleaned mine up a little. I just used a small amount of soapy water and dried it off. Now all I got to do is find a spot to put it on the layout.
Right now it's in the tank farm area that I am building.













I just threw in a little action, temporarily.











The Lionel executives checking out the tank farm going up. Going to stop and have a greasy burger with fries when they are done touring. I got to get some 2lb fishing line as the 12lbs is to heavy for pictures. The location is also temporary.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Big Ed,

Just back from a few days at "family camp" with wife and kids. Potato sack races, soda bottle rockets, etc. Fun for all, but tired. Just catching up on train threads. And ...

This diner is FABULOUS ... and such GREAT (!!!) condition, too! When I first saw it on your What's New thread, I wondered if it was made from a passenger / Pulman car. Thanks for confirming the #610 theory. I'm just amazed how pristine your looks.

Great find ... thanks for sharing such detailed pics.

TJ


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Big Ed,
> 
> Just back from a few days at "family camp" with wife and kids. Potato sack races, soda bottle rockets, etc. Fun for all, but tired. Just catching up on train threads. And ...
> 
> ...




Why thanks TJ, I posted that only for you.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You have good taste. I like the candy apple red. Also the fact that it doesn't take up a lot of room. Good One!:thumbsup:


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK, you didn't ask but here it is anyway.

Right after I received the diner, I was looking for some history on them for TJ.
I went into my den to research it and a magazine fell off the pile I had of old CTT magazines. I picked it up and the first page it opened to was this one.:thumbsup:

No lie, spooky?

These are all un-cataloged but the Red #442.
Which by the way is missing the 2 side bushes though it looks like half of them are there. They are supposed to look like the ones that are on mine.









The top upper left is made from a #617 coach. (made from 1935-1941)
The top middle is the #442 ( the only one that is cataloged, made from 1938 - ?.)

The top right is an Ives #1691. Observation car.
Bottom far right is Ives #1693. Observation car. (these became part of the Lionel line)

Bottom left is the #617
There is one other known to be around, the #637 coach (not shown) is is the same as the #617 but the colors are different. The coach was part of Lionel's City of Denver streamlined set. it was yellow and brown.

The #1691 Ives is the most difficult one to find today. Followed by the #1693.

I have never seen any but the #442.
I didn't even know that other prewar diners existed.

A few think that the un-cataloged diners were made by Madison hardware during the war years as they had a surplus of them.

The only thing I wish was included with my #442 is the top diner sign.
They never made any for the #442.
I might make my own to add.

So....if you ever see one besides the #442 snatch it up! And PM me right away.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Big Ed,

Great info ... thanks for the research / post. Doyle catalog says the #442 (in 3 slightly different versions, paint mostly) was made 1938 to 1942. I think yours is a "type 3": pink foundation, gold (rather than silver) lettering.

How much did you pay? I know you said in the "New" thread ... under $100, right?

Doyle has these estimated at $250 excellent, $375 like new.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Big Ed,
> 
> Great info ... thanks for the research / post. Doyle catalog says the #442 (in 3 slightly different versions, paint mostly) was made 1938 to 1942. I think yours is a "type 3": pink foundation, gold (rather than silver) lettering.
> 
> ...




$71.00 TJ 

I saw one "brand new mint in the box" asking $850
I seen one go for $385 w/t box. But was missing a set of stairs.

What color or variations were there?
I never heard about different ones.
I think I have white letters, I will check next time I am in the dungeon.

Like I said I watched and bid for around 6 months before I won this one.

I am happy with the price and condition of mine.
I don't need the box.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

$71 ... WOW!

I'm not nearby the Doyle catalog right now, but I think (???) he says that the color variations were: (a) in the steps and the foundation (red vs. pink vs. tan), and (b) in the lettering (silver vs. gold).

On one of my PC's your lettering looked gold to me, but here (on a different PC) it looks silver. My "type 3" comment above was based upon a "gold" assumption, but you may correct me there.

TJ


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> $71 ... WOW!
> 
> I'm not nearby the Doyle catalog right now, but I think (???) he says that the color variations were: (a) in the steps and the foundation (red vs. pink vs. tan), and (b) in the lettering (silver vs. gold).
> 
> ...


I have been winning stuff on e bay.:thumbsup:
I have not got down to the dungeon yet, but I think my letters are white.
I will check tomorrow.


----------

