# Buyer caution with Red LED's Turnout replacement



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I bought 10 of these along with some green lamps fro EBay. My intent was to replace the original lamps found on the turnout controllers which draw much current and get hot to the touch. I figured that LED's would work better. I still do, but out of the 10 Red LED's there were three that broke while gently screwing them into the base. They separate from the base. I still like and thing that this is a good idea but only with a better quality lamp. I may try to glue the base to the LED with super glue and see if that will work without separating. At least they are not all that expensive.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Super glue may be your best solution.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If you have trouble finding a quality LED that looks good the alternative is to replace the 18V bulbs with 24V bulbs. Then operate the turnouts on 12V rather than 16 to 18V. This greatly reduces the current draw and heat. Not as good as LED's but way better than the original setup.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I agree with the super glue suggestions. That should hold the LED to the base well enough to allow you to screw it into the socket. Put a dab of silicone grease on the socket too to ease the friction somewhat.

I know screwing in some bulbs is like rubbing two sheets of 120 grit sandpaper together.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I bought the 24 volt bulbs. The other just get too hot. Have not used them much since I have no layout.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mopac, somehow I forgot you have no layout. Is it you have no layout in any scale or just no S gauge layout?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have a 4X8 HO layout. My dream HO layout was to be 15 x 24 around the walls Ho layout. No S layout, No O layout, No G layout. Oh, I do have an N layout. Small one.

Whats really stupid is I have all the lumber for a S scale layout except the plywood. Got to do it. It will be 6X14. Hopefully 4 loops to run 4 separate trains at once. Would like to have 2 loops of the K-Line 27" track.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

6'x14' is enough space to make a wonderful AF layout. Sounds like it is just a matter of priorities, hopefully some day in the future the S layout will make it to #1 on the list.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

As far as buyers caution goes, also watch put for oil "wicks" for diesels that are merely snippets of pipe cleaners. With the wire in the middle! Not like the originals!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I am not familiar with the original diesel oil wicks. For steamer oil wicks you can use felt.
Cut to size. Might work for the diesels also.


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## C100 (Nov 19, 2012)

*LED Lights*



BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I bought 10 of these along with some green lamps fro EBay. My intent was to replace the original lamps found on the turnout controllers which draw much current and get hot to the touch. I figured that LED's would work better. I still do, but out of the 10 Red LED's there were three that broke while gently screwing them into the base. They separate from the base. I still like and thing that this is a good idea but only with a better quality lamp. I may try to glue the base to the LED with super glue and see if that will work without separating. At least they are not all that expensive.


Hi Broke, 
I think I might have bought the same bulbs on eBay awhile back. They were advertised as 12 to 16 volts. When they arrived they were marked 12V. I tried them, and in a short whlle they burned out. I contacted the seller about the discrepancy on the voltage, and they offered to replace them with the same thing. I opted for my money back and advised them to change their listing. They did not, and after a few days the ad was removed. You get what you pay for. The 24v bulb is an option, or you need to spend more money for a quality product. JMHO


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You can find quality replacement LED's at Mouser Electronics. Digi-Key too.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Update: 1) I super glued the led to the base and that solved that problem. 2) I ended up with over half of the led's twisting of so I lubed the socket with silicone grease. The results were not what I had hoped for or expected. Some of the sockets are tight while others a OK. I will have to spend some more time resolving this.
3) Conclusion is to be happy with the original and put up with occasional burnt fingers as long as you have the VA's to handle it, and I do.hwell:


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Like I said, buy some 24V bulbs, they are inexpensive and greatly reduce the heat produced.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

I've seen 24v bulbs in 1.5w and 5w (on Amazon). Which would be more appropriate?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Really, in the correct 9/16" globe with the red or green paint? Does the listing say they replace #441 and #443 bulbs? This is a guess because I do not know but I would assume the originals were 250 to 350 milliwatts. Maybe I am way off. I always just got mine from one of the train parts suppliers for about 75 cents a piece so I never needed to know the wattage. C7 Christmas tree bulbs were 5W so I doubt that is correct for the turnout controllers. I can hardly imagine how hot that 9/16" globe would be with a 5W filament in it. I guess get the 1.5W.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

Good answer! These are not colored. Nor 9/16" globes. I though we were talking turnout indicator housing bulbs. I now realize we are talking RC switches.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> Like I said, buy some 24V bulbs, they are inexpensive and greatly reduce the heat produced.


Would you have a part number?


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

shaker281 said:


> Good answer! These are not colored. Nor 9/16" globes. I though we were talking turnout indicator housing bulbs. I now realize we are talking RC switches.


Maybe I'm lost but I was talking about the turnout control switch that has two red and two green bulbs.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The clear bulbs that go in the turnout housing are 7/16" globes. The correct replacement bulb is a 2447. the original Gilbert number was 453. I believe the replacement number for the turnout controller bulbs is 2449R & G. Sorry I misunderstood which bulbs you wanted.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Fred, next time you talk to Jeff at the Train Tender have him send you some. He will know the correct 24V bulbs.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> Fred, next time you talk to Jeff at the Train Tender have him send you some. He will know the correct 24V bulbs.


Thanks Tom! Jeff knows me well!:laugh::laugh::laugh: But I am sure that now as well as he must like.:smokin:


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

When your layout gets to the point of having several of these it is time to change to LED’s!
Not my layout.


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## tomh (Jul 8, 2018)

*Order LED Bulbs for AF Switch Controller*

https://www.ledlight.com/e10-screw-base-tall-round-led-light.aspx

I swapped out all of my incandescent AF switch controller bulbs a year ago and installed the linked bulbs. Choose what color you want in the drop down menu at the web site. 

I bought 14 red and 14 green colored LED bulbs ... no problems with bulb loosening in screw housing. The spec on the web site for these bulbs shows 6v to 12v DC. Even though my AF switches are powered from my Gilbert transformer 15v AC accessory terminal, I opted to give it a try. All bulbs are working fine after a year of use. 

These are the tall LED bulbs. They also carry the same LED bulbs in shorter length in a different product code. Get the above linked tall LED bulbs, product code 74534 ... they are easier to grasp with your fingers to screw/unscrew them into the controller bulb socket. 

Price ~ 90 cents ea ... so not a big investment.

Regards,

Tom


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks for the link. These LED's are listed as replacements for 1449 bulbs. Are these LED's operating on 15V brighter than the original 18V bulbs?


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## tomh (Jul 8, 2018)

*LED Bulb Brightness*

RE: "Are these LED's operating on 15V brighter than the original 18V bulbs? "

Not from the side. However, there is a significant glare upwards from the bulb if looking directly down from above. My solution to that was to cut/apply 1/4 - 1/2 inch diameter disks of opaque masking tape on the tops of my green/red LED bulbs. Could also use dab if opaque green/red paint on the tops of the bulbs.

Note that about six months ago, I opted to dedicate a used transformer 0-18v AC throttle to all of my AF switches in order to boost the voltage to my 60+ year old switches ... some are very sluggish and inconsistent in opening/closing. Upping the voltage to 18v AC works better for me than the lower 15v AC accessory power bus. Anyway, my LED bulbs on my switch controllers have done fine even at the higher 18v AC for the past six months. Still use the disks of opaque masking tape on the tops to block off the upwards glare.

Regards,

Tom


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

tomh said:


> RE: "Are these LED's operating on 15V brighter than the original 18V bulbs? "
> 
> Not from the side. However, there is a significant glare upwards from the bulb if looking directly down from above. My solution to that was to cut/apply 1/4 - 1/2 inch diameter disks of opaque masking tape on the tops of my green/red LED bulbs. Could also use dab if opaque green/red paint on the tops of the bulbs.
> 
> ...


I think that I wasted my time and money on replacing my bulbs with led's. Out of the 20 red ones 12 twisted off as I "gently" screwed them into a base that I had lubed with silicone grease.
I like the power savings and lack of heat but based upon my experence, I would not recommend them.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Fred, regrettably I agree with you. I posted a turnout control panel above to suggest when it would be worth finding high quality LED's to replace the red and green incandescent bulbs in the control boxes. 
All the 65 to 70 year old 720A turnouts we use should be cleaned and tuned up prior to layout use. I have done about 40 over the years so I might now be close to half as good as Flyernut doing these. When freshly maintained all my 720A's will snap firmly back and forth at 12 to 13V. I use the variable output of a 4B to power the turnouts at about 13V. This greatly reduces the heat and brightness of the original 18V bulbs. I put 24V clear in the turnout lanterns. I find I cannot remember how to operate a layout with more than 12 turnouts plus some yard turnouts. Operating at 13V 15 18V controller bulbs and 15 24V turnout lantern bulbs draw less than 30W. To me it is not worth the trouble to find good LED's.
On my other layout with 45 turnouts I invested in the Lionel LCS to control and indicate all the turnouts. It would have been way beyond my capability to operate that many with the Gilbert turnout controllers.
A closing thought. The SHS and MTH controllers have LED's built into them and they work with Gilbert turnouts. If you see any laying loose at train shows or on EBAY pick them up.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

All my powered turnouts came from flyernut so mine work great. He went through them.
I did buy some 24 volt bulbs for the controllers.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I can only aspire to be as good as Flyernut one day, unfortunately I will never get there.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

He is a great mechanic. He is my AF guru.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

May I ask, what in particular, can be done to these RC turnouts to achieve maximum efficiency. I like the idea of using the variable output at 13v and 24v bulbs in the indicators.

I've given my three (60-70 year olds) some basic attention. I cleaned the contacts inside with 1000 grit and contact cleaner. I straightened a few bulb sockets (just a bit). I've cleaned the exteriors gently, along with the thumb screws and track. And I've adjusted the pawls inside to get positive action. Even put a minute dab of grease on the pawl tip. And a drop of oil on the pivot point. 

Anything else I can do or adjust to improve operation? Tricks? Closely held secrets?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

shaker281 said:


> May I ask, what in particular, can be done to these RC turnouts to achieve maximum efficiency. I like the idea of using the variable output at 13v and 24v bulbs in the indicators.
> 
> I've given my three (60-70 year olds) some basic attention. I cleaned the contacts inside with 1000 grit and contact cleaner. I straightened a few bulb sockets (just a bit). I've cleaned the exteriors gently, along with the thumb screws and track. And I've adjusted the pawls inside to get positive action. Even put a minute dab of grease on the pawl tip. And a drop of oil on the pivot point.
> 
> Anything else I can do or adjust to improve operation? Tricks? Closely held secrets?


I've done a few tutorials on re-building AF switches. Check them out. All my switches have a nice "snap" when I'm done, and all perform flawlessly.I break them down to just a bake-lite shell.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

flyernut said:


> I've done a few tutorials on re-building AF switches. Check them out. All my switches have a nice "snap" when I'm done, and all perform flawlessly.I break them down to just a bake-lite shell.


Oh, thanks. I keep forgetting to search on the site before asking questions. I'll do that.


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