# Problems with Lionel loco 6-38687



## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

Just got this Loco for Christmas to run around my den on a shelf. The loco runs, however it does not make smoke as advertised, despite what position the smoke unit switch is in. The whistle also does not work properly. When I activate the whistle lever on the transformer (type 4090) the locomotive speeds up and the light gets brighter, but the whistle does not blow. Well not all the time. I have heard a sound once or twice, but it sounds more like a diesel horn not a whistle. Should I take it to the local shop and see about repair?


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

I think you have the wrong transformer,you need a newer electronic type transformer ,like the CW-80 or something new enough to run your loco properly


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## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

OK, I will take it to the local train shop and test them both out tomorrow if they are open.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

To generate smoke the throttle has tio be fast for examole 3/4 ths. 4 to 6 drops any more and you flood it. You did use fluid? You never said, but it is relevant to the problem.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> To genearate smake the throttle has ti be fast for examole 3/4 ths. 4 to 6 drops any more and you flood it. You did use fluid? You never said, but it is relevant to the problem.



T man your slurring your spelling.

I thought they recommend 8 to 10 drops for a brand new engine?
Then after that less.


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## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

I had about 5-7 drops of fluid, I have to watch the speed though this is on a shelf.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

93firebird said:


> I had about 5-7 drops of fluid, I have to watch the speed though this is on a shelf.


Was it a brand new engine? You sure?

If not you can burn the smoke unit up if you run it switched to on with no fluid in it. Maybe someone ran it dry?

Do you have any track to make an oval on the floor to let it fly?
To run it faster to test the smoke unit.

Your problem might be not enough power to get the smoker hot to produce the smoke.
Or someone burned the unit up.


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## JRich52804 (Nov 6, 2011)

With the smoke fluid filled appropriately and the smoke switch turned on, put the train in neutral and adjust throttle to full power for a little while. This should allow the smoke unit to heat up to the temperature it needs to to create smoke. Then, take it around at your normal speed. You should see the smoke, at least for a little while. If you do see the smoke, then it is the speed/power you are running that is the reason you are not seeing it. If not, your smoke unit could be bad.

You also may want to try a different brand of smoke fluid also, I got better results with Megasteam than I did with the lionel smoke fluid. It seems to produce more smoke at slower speeds.


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## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

JRich52804 said:


> With the smoke fluid filled appropriately and the smoke switch turned on, put the train in neutral and adjust throttle to full power for a little while. This should allow the smoke unit to heat up to the temperature it needs to to create smoke. Then, take it around at your normal speed. You should see the smoke, at least for a little while. If you do see the smoke, then it is the speed/power you are running that is the reason you are not seeing it. If not, your smoke unit could be bad.
> 
> You also may want to try a different brand of smoke fluid also, I got better results with Megasteam than I did with the lionel smoke fluid. It seems to produce more smoke at slower speeds.


according to Lionel's web site turning up the voltage in neutral will not heat up the smoke unit, only when the train is moving.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

93firebird said:


> according to Lionel's web site turning up the voltage in neutral will not heat up the smoke unit, only when the train is moving.


thats right, even my new legacy locos smoke alot less when not moving,eventhough they have fan driven smoke units in them.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

you said you are using a type 4090 transformer? doesn't that one have two levers,one black,and one orange\red? 

isn't this a fairly new locomotive & tender?

did you buy a complete set R-T-R, or sometning you are putting toghter,like most of us do? just trying to help.


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## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

Yes I have a type 4090 transformer. It came with two red levers, one marked throttle, and the other marked direction/ whistle. The loco is a fairly new model the way I understand it. Lastly, it is something I am piecing together.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

big ed said:


> Was it a brand new engine? You sure?
> 
> If not you can burn the smoke unit up if you run it switched to on with no fluid in it. Maybe someone ran it dry?
> 
> ...





Big Mike said:


> you said you are using a type 4090 transformer? doesn't that one have two levers,one black,and one orange\red?
> 
> isn't this a fairly new locomotive & tender?
> 
> did you buy a complete set R-T-R, or sometning you are putting toghter,like most of us do? just trying to help.




I am left wondering..........Only trying to help too, but my questions remain unanswered.

Got it off e bay is not saying it is brand new. 
Maybe someone tried running it with the smoker on and burned it up.
So they said sell it...........and listed it as brand new unused.


Oh well.....hwell:


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## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

the unit was still sealed


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

93firebird said:


> the unit was still sealed



One question answered.

How about,
Do you have any track to make an oval on the floor to let it fly?
To run it faster to test the smoke unit?

Maybe it needs to go to make the smoke?
You said you can't run it fast on the shelf.


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## JRich52804 (Nov 6, 2011)

93firebird said:


> according to Lionel's web site turning up the voltage in neutral will not heat up the smoke unit, only when the train is moving.


I have 2 newer lionel steam engines. The polar express, and 6-30173-E
Santa Fe 0-8-0 engine. I can put them in neutral with voltage cranked up and they do create smoke. It will not visibly come out of the smokestack but if you look inside, you can see it. The movement of the train is what makes it come out. So, if I let it 'warm up' in neutral and then proceed to go forward, it will start smoking very well, even at slow speeds, until it cools down again. 

I am not sure if this is the case for all Lionel engines, and I don't own any legacy engines so I am not sure about those. You could try it out though, as long as you have smoke fluid in it, it should not hurt anything.


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## 93firebird (Dec 25, 2011)

I can run it up to about 3/4 throttle, just not full speed. The shelf is only 4" wide, so I had to run the edge to clear the walls at the corner. The train runs smoothly. I guess the smoke unit could be burnt up, the switch is not marked, and the owners manual does not state which direction it has to be in to be on or off. I had to find the info on the lionel website. the switches on the tender are clearly marked, but not the smoke unit switch. I am not sure which direction it was in when I first started running right out of the box, and since smoke was the last of my worries at the time I didn't bother to check.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My Legacy SD-80 will smoke sitting still or moving. It has fan driven smoke, and you can also adjust the amount of smoke from the Legacy controller.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> My Legacy SD-80 will smoke sitting still or moving. It has fan driven smoke, and you can also adjust the amount of smoke from the Legacy controller.


this is true, but you can also increase the out put by setting the momentim on high and increasing your RPMs, I had trouble with my legacy locos at first,and this is what the service station in Ohio told me to do, it works........mike


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

93firebird said:


> Yes I have a type 4090 transformer. It came with two red levers, one marked throttle, and the other marked direction/ whistle. The loco is a fairly new model the way I understand it. Lastly, it is something I am piecing together.


I know you are not going to believe me ,but you have the wrong transformer, your train has an electronic circut board on board that requires a DC signal from the transformer, to operate the wistle,and prob. the smoke unit,that older type transformer is not able to send this signal.


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## hgarrison3 (Aug 28, 2012)

I have the same engine. It was sold to me as new. It smokes real well but it doesn't run forward. Reverse only. Lionel informed me the warranty had already expired. I have an old 275 watt ZW transformer which works real well.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> I know you are not going to believe me ,but you have the wrong transformer, your train has an electronic circut board on board that requires a DC signal from the transformer, to operate the wistle,and prob. the smoke unit,that older type transformer is not able to send this signal.


The smoke unit certainly doesn't require any special transformer, just AC voltage on the tracks. Also, here's the Lionel 4090 User's Manual, and you can clearly see it has a whistle control. Now, the bell will be a problem, that's true, but the whistle and smoke should work fine.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I would read the manual and make sure all the switches are in the correct position. I would say the engine is locked in reverse not broken. It could be a switch or some whistle code to correct it if you have a fancy DCC type system. Not much info so far to seek out any answers for you.


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## Steph3dfx (Dec 4, 2012)

I have a Lionel 4090 and an MTH Z-1000 to control 2 separate track system.
See pics in this tread : http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15194

I'm unable to activate the sound system in my Locos made by Williams (Penny GG1 and F3 Santa Fe) and I'm pretty shure it will not work either with my MTH NYC Hudson.
However they are working flawlessly with the MTH Z-1000.
You should try a recent transformer, and keep the 4090 for accessories or older locos.

I think I will grab a new CW-80 on eBay to replace mine.


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