# Power for modern S gauge trains



## Joead48

I am reverting back to S gauge trains. I had American Flyer as a young boy. I am simply inquiring if the transformers manufactured by Lionel and MTH will work with modern S gauge trains. In addition, would older AF and Lionel transformers work as well. Thanks for any guidance. Joe


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## dooper

Welcome aboard Joead48.

I use a combination of American Flyer and Lionel transformers. I am sure others can elaborate on what they use. If you more than one, make sure they are in phase.


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## cramden

I use only vintage transformers since I run only Post War Flyer. AmFlyer runs vintage and modern with TMCC and Legacy so I'm sure he can give you advise on power for modern engines.


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## Joead48

Thank you both for the information. I am thinking of a modern transformer to run the trains and another to handle accessories and lights. I will keep reading the forum to get more information.


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## flyernut

I use a 30b, a ZW, a couple of 8b's, and a 1033 RW...-


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## Joead48

Thanks Flyernut. Joe


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## Chuck7612

Can you be more specific as to which locomotives you are referring? I can get you an answer, but it will be easier if you tell me the brands and models you wish to run.

I can answer one part of your question though...the MTH transformers are all modern so their AC transformers are fine for any era, brand or model of AC S scale locos.


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## AmFlyer

The complete answer is a bit complex. Are you running a mix of Gilbert and Current production engines? Are any of the Gilbert engines DC only? Are you running all conventional or are you planning on Legacy or FlyerChief control?
Not all engines play nice with all power supplies.
Gilbert engines with universal motors can use any power supply unless they have built in horns or whistles. These require a power source with a pure sine wave output.
Modern engines can use most any AC power supply but any postwar Gilbert or Lionel transformer will require a supplemental fast acting fuse or circuit breaker plus TVS protection devices to protect the engine's internal circuit boards.
All Gilbert engines will run on DC. Most will run on AC except for certain Northerns and 0-8-0 switchers that were built with DC only motors.
All modern engines will run on AC. Most run on DC but some of the earlier TMCC and Legacy engines will not. Some AM engines are made for DC only. The OB's were marked as such.


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## Joead48

My plan is to run modern engines. Probably legacy and flyer chief. I appreciate the feedback. I have been informed to be careful about what power source I use. I will not be running older AF engines. Thanks Joe


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## AmFlyer

Then I highly recommend the ZW-L if you are willing to spend that much money. It directly integrates with the Legacy system. It has built in metering, the most advanced protection circuits and 4 outputs that can each supply 10A to the connected track. I bought 2 of them 3 years ago for my layout, it was the right choice, I have no regrets.


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## Joead48

I am familiar with this transformer from when I operated O gauge trains. I think I have the information I need to proceed. Again, I appreciate all the information and feedback I have been given. Joe


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## AmFlyer

Great, enjoy the S gauge trains!


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## Chuck7612

AmFlyer/Tom is of course spot on. No need for me to add anything, but please come back with any other questions. Some of have experience with both the wonderful vintage Gilbert locos as well as the latest modern technologies.


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## Joead48

Thanks Chuck. Will be reading the forum on a regular basis. Just wish the family kept the AF my childhood. Joe


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## AmFlyerFan

I see that a lot of you guys run ZW's with AF. I never thought of that and always thought that it was a cool transformer. My AF 18B needed a new cord but it still works great. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a ZW transformer, lot more Lionel stuff here locally then AF.


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## AmFlyer

A couple of thoughts about running Gilbert trains with Lionel transformers. If the reverse unit works freely the trains can be run at low speeds because the minimum output voltage on a Lionel is around 2V. Gilbert transformers drop to zero after 7V. The motors in Gilbert engines can be damaged by sustained voltages above 16V. Some Lionel transformers have a 21V maximum. No problem for us professional train operators but I have seen kids couple enough cars to an engine to make the wheels spin (no traction tires) and then let it run to see if it starts moving. Bad idea with 21V.
Also the Gilbert 900 series and 5 digit heavyweight passenger cars do not like sustained high track voltage with the factory bulbs. With the 600 series bakelite cars no problem. I cannot use my 952, 953, and 954 passenger cars on my Legacy layout even with the track voltage set at a constant 13V. What happens is the roof of the car over the bulb softens, sags and dimples. It only takes about 15min at 13V continuous.


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## Mikeh49

Tom, you need LED lighting!  Sometimes modern is indeed better, tradition be dammed.


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## AmFlyer

I do in the current production cars. I do not modify any of my collectibles except for the few I run on the layout.


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## Mikeh49

Probably beating a horse, but have you considered these:

http://stores.towncountryhobbies.com/led-432ww/

For AF heavyweight passenger cars. 

I'll shut up now.


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## AmFlyer

Ok, I thought you meant the strips like I put in the American Models cars. I have seen these bulbs but not purchased any. Now that you refreshed my link to these I will buy some and see how they look. Thanks.


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## Mikeh49

I did originally mean the LED strips as you can have constant intensity and flicker-free with them. Then I remembered the bulbs. Please do report back on them.


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