# Lionel Set - Question



## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

Hi All,

Yes, I'm yet another person getting dad's old train set going. 

It has a 224 loco w/2466W tender, 2755 boxcar, 2758 boxcar, and 2457 caboose.

My question is: Did my dad buy this as a "set" from Lionel, or did he buy it "hodge podge"? There is also the chance that he bought it at a garage sale, as he was a big "Saturday Junker". 

If this was a set, then what am I missing? Someone said that it should have a 2452 gondola, but I'm not sure that is true. I've looked all over the internet for a definitive set with these pieces, but have not found anything that show without a doubt that this all came together as a set originally.

Help? 

I got it services at a local train shop and here is a video of the test run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK6dLcgz0qE

Thanks,
Dave


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't know about the set, but here is a link for you.
Click on the car or loco #.

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_master_index.htm


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Your 224 has black handrails This was done in 1945 ALso it should have an extra long drawbar that attaches to an oval hole in the tender. The 2755 tanker was only offered in 1945. It was not in the set The tanker listed was2555 . It is not to say it wasn't in a set Unless you have the box you don't know They are in th 45,46 time period.


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

*Thanks*

Thanks Big Ed and T-Man.

Thanks - so all the pieces are 1945/1946, but there is no way to know what other cars might have come with the set. 

So unless someone tells me different, I'm going to assume that I'm not missing the 2452 Gondola. I was going to hunt one down on eBay, but only if it makes sense to do so; ie: there is some sore of compelling evidence to suggest that it is missing from the set that I have.

Thanks All!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I have a detailed "set inventory" book at my office ... I'll try to remember to check tomorrow, and get back to you.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> I have a detailed "set inventory" book at my office ... I'll try to remember to check tomorrow, and get back to you.
> 
> TJ



I knew someone had a book on sets.
I don't.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah, Ed ... it's one of Doyle's Lionel catalog/pricing books ... this one on post-war sets. I also have a book of his on prewar locos and cars (all guages), and another on postwar locos and cars (O).

Cheers,

TJ


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

*Thanks TJ*

Thanks TJ, 

I really appreciate it.

newbie Dave


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Dave, here's some more info.......................

http://www.trainxchange.com/POSTwar/sets.html


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey Jim,

That's a neat website ... I hadn't seen that one before. Thanks for the tip!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

According to Jim's web find the 2755 tanker is rare.


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

*Set 463 . . . ?*

Thanks

I'll bet it is the first set -- 463W

It all makes sense, except for the boxcar, which is definitely a 2758. Maybe they ran out of the old boxcars and just gave him a new one...? 

Well, I think I'll hunt down a 2452 Gondola.

Thanks,
Dave


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Actually the 2758 number was first, it was a carry over from the prewar period, same as the tanker. Since the 7 number was replaced, that 's what makes it a rarer piece. A very nice set. It may help you to locate a 1945 catalog. Repro or original that way you can see the original ad. If one was made that year.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

​Dave,

I think Doyle's "set" book has the answer. Per that ...

The 1945 #463W set included:

224 2-6-2 steam loco
2466W tender (with whistle)
2458 automobile box car
2452 gondola with barrels
2555 Sunoco single-domed tank car
2457 Penns N5 illuminated caboose.

The 224 was a carry over from prewar, with square cab floor and blackened handrails.

And, MOST IMPORTANTLY:

The 2458 Pennysylvania automobile boxcar was identical to the prewar model (except for the trucks), including the number stamped on its side, 2758, not the actual cataloged number of 2458. In the rush to get an outfit on the market for Christmas 1945, Lionel reused the prewar head-stamp tooling, or, more likely, assembled these cars with leftover prewar bodies.

The 2555 tanker had than number marked on its box, but the tanker itself was marked 2755 and was a carryover from the prewar era.
​
So, your boxcar marked 2758 is REALLY the 2458 automobile box that was identified in the set list!

And, it looks like you are missing a 2452 gondola with barrels, and the 2755 Sunoco single-domed tank car (which had a 2555 box).

A bit confusing, but I hope that helps!

TJ


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

*Got it - Thanks*

And, MOST IMPORTANTLY:

The 2458 Pennysylvania automobile boxcar was identical to the prewar model (except for the trucks), including the number stamped on its side, 2758, not the actual cataloged number of 2458. In the rush to get an outfit on the market for Christmas 1945, Lionel reused the prewar head-stamp tooling, or, more likely, assembled these cars with leftover prewar bodies.

The 2555 tanker had than number marked on its box, but the tanker itself was marked 2755 and was a carryover from the prewar era.

Wow - Awesome! There is the answer right there - THANKS TJ

(Although I have the one dome 2555 Tanker with #2755 decal - See video), so I only am missing the 2452 gondola. EBay here I come... 

Well then, that ends this thread! 

Thanks again guys - I really appreciate your help!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Dave,

Glad the info worked out well for you. I just watched your video for the first time ... I now see your 2755 tanker.

Per your question on YouTube ... Did you get the whistle working? We might be able to debug here, if you need it. (I say "we" ... T-Man is our resident whistle/gizmo expert!)

Completely separate question ...

On a different thread, some guys were asking if it's possible to integrate popular music with videos uploaded to YouTube. The discussion suggests that YouTube prohibits merging "canned" music. That said, you have "Chattanooga Choo Choo" chiming in the background of your video. How did you add that in? (I am a complete video/YouTube idiot in asking that question.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Stillakid said:


> Dave, here's some more info.......................
> 
> http://www.trainxchange.com/POSTwar/sets.html



Nice link Jim I never saw that one either. 
Tanks.:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> According to Jim's web find the 2755 tanker is rare.


The 2755 might be rare because they only offered them in sets?


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

On a different thread, some guys were asking if it's possible to integrate popular music with videos uploaded to YouTube. The discussion suggests that YouTube prohibits merging "canned" music. That said, you have "Chattanooga Choo Choo" chiming in the background of your video. How did you add that in? (I am a complete video/YouTube idiot in asking that question.)

Hi TJ,

I used a very simple (and free) program to make the video called Windows Live Movie Maker. The program allows you to upload the video and then upload an mp3 file to use in a video. It lets you "fade" the music or just use all of it for "100% sound". Since I had the TV on in the background and my kid was blabbing away, I just selected 100% for the music and that was that. 

I think that YouTube doesn't care (really). If they get a notice from an attorney somewhere, then they'll allow the holder of the copyright to block someone's use of the music. However, VERY OLD music probably falls under "public domain" (I would think...?) so it is most likely legal to use it. Either way, if someone "blocks" the use of the music in my video, I'll just let it go silent.

I would think too that a video like mine, with only a handful of hits, wouldn't hit the radar of the "music police" that are out there somewhere checking YouTube daily for copyright infringement. 

I hope that answers your questions. Glad to be of help. I'm no train guy, but I am something of a techie. (Now I feel like a MAN again - hahaha!)

Thanks All (again)
Dave in Williamsport, PA


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

*whistle*

Per your question on YouTube ... Did you get the whistle working? We might be able to debug here, if you need it. (I say "we" ... T-Man is our resident whistle/gizmo expert!)

Sorry - Forgot to answer this...

I'm going to buy a Lionel Whistle Controller No 167 (might as well keep it all period). When it comes in, I'll let you guys know. Maybe even take a short video with the clickety-clack and the whistle, and post it for kicks-n-grins.

Thanks!
Dave


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

big ed said:


> The 2755 might be rare because they only offered them in sets?


Well it is rare because it was updated to postwar couplers but kept the old prewar number for a short period then evolved into the 2455 or2855 tanker. So it had a short run.

I hope your tender whistle works. So far, I am the lead for whistles.


P.S. For movies, I use windows movie maker.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> So far, I am the lead for whistles.


T-Man -- No question about it ... you ARE the whistle guy! 

Dave -- thanks for the YouTube music upload info. I've never dabbled with video making/posting, but the process is slowly beginning to make sense, thanks to tips like yours.

Regards,

TJ

PS --

Dave, for future posts, if you want to quote someone, go to their prior post, and hit the little Quote button under their post. That will copy their post into the editor, below, with special tags so it appears in a grey field in your reponse. You can edit their quote to shorten it to a specific phrase, word, etc.


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

*How to connect this whistle controller to 250Z ?*










I got this whistle controller. It is a Lionel 8251-50. 

Can someone tell me how to connect it?

I'd just take some guesses, but then I'd probably do it wrong and somehow "burn out" the controller...

I found this:
http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/6951_5906soundbutton.pdf

but that only shows two wires, and mine has four. A red and white wire out of the front and two black wires out of the back.

HELP!

Thanks,
Dave


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Easy*

The black wires are the feed from both terminals. The white is pos and red neg. One direction activates the bellwhistle or horn by switching the red and white the othe rwill activate if you have railsounds. The old relay doesn.t care and works both ways. 

The white is lower right and red is lower left.


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## theYguy (Nov 14, 2010)

*Got it - I think...*

Got it - Thanks.

Although, I must confess that the pic you included made my brain hurt.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

theYguy said:


> Got it - Thanks.
> 
> Although, I must confess that the pic you included made my brain hurt.



If that one hurt your head you should read some of T mans other electrical threads.
Not only will it hurt, but it will make you dizzy too.:laugh:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Another one of T-Man's wonders ...

Fires up an arc-welder light, turns on the coffee maker, flushes the toilet, and puts the seat lid down ... all in one magic gizmo:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Simple*

The first shot shows the diodes forming a bridge rectifier to produce the DC current needed. The second shot shows the heater element.This starts the relay with a full DC pulse then backs off for the whistle. Those diodes are used in almost all my projects.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

The circa 1961 set I'm working on with the 233 Scout loco originally came with a simple, stand-alone D-cell DC battery whistle controller. (I don't have it, but read about it in the set description.) I'm assuming (???) that one simply pushed a button, and it sent a 1.5 volt (???) DC voltage jump into the track, which toggled the whistle solenoid relay to the "on" position, with the whistle motor itself running of of AC. Let go of the button, DC stops, and the whistle stops. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that.)

OK ... that all said ...

So with this more modern whistle controller that generate DC voltage via the bridge rectifier (rather than a D-cell battery), you say that it needs a heater element that somehow "starts the relay with a full DC pulse then backs off for the whistle."

Can you elaborate on that a bit?

Do these stand-alone controllers work such that when you push the button, an initial DC signal gets sent out, but that you can quickly let go of the button, and somehow the heater element continues to allow DC voltage to pass through, and then eventually turns that off with some delay. Net result: the whistle blows for several seconds, even though you've only pushed the button for a quick moment???

Sorry to dwell on this. The only whistle controller I have is the one built into my CW-80 transformer, and I'm trying to figure out how these stand-alone ones work.

Thanks much,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I picked this up in the CCTT forum a while back. They discussed the battery one too. I have not seen it. The cocern about it ,was the exposure of the battery to AC track voltage.
Gee I am not sure I will have to try it.

The bulb is a timer. maybe it reduces so the train won't spurt ahead every time. The extra volatge isn't needed to keep the whistle running.
The olds transformers do this too. So maybe the delay is after.

This is one reason why I bought the thing was because of the questions.


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