# Running buss wire



## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

Running 14Ga buss wire under my new, first layout. How far apart should the positive and negative wire? Do they need to wrap around each other every so often? If they cross other buss wire, does this crossing need to be at 90 degrees?


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

This is a basic question from a novice. Will someone take a few minutes to help a fledgling out?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It shouldn't matter if it's insulated. It should be. 14 is heavy stuff what are you powering?
I don't use a whole wire as a busbar. I run a wire to a terminal board, to a section of table, and run wire from there.

If you are using scrap house wire,you may keep the ground or common bare, but use insulated wire for the positive.


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

I'm running from the power booster of a 5amp NCE DCC system. I planned to use single, insulated 14 or 12 gauge wire, under my layout, following fairly closely to the track so my 20ga feeder wires would all be less than 3ft. Do the buss wire lines need to be wrapped around each other every so often? How far apart should these single wires (pos and neg) be under the layout?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm no electo-tech, but isn't there something to be said for running long lengths of insulated wires in "twisted pairs", such that they don't set up a magnetic field between them?

Maybe any benefit is negligable for these short runs ...

Anton -- if you see this, chime in here ... you're pretty knowledgable on stuff like this.

TJ


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

my run of buss wire will at most be 24 feet. However, I have read that 3 twists (or so) every meter is common. Any thoughts?


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Personally, I think the twists are a waste of time, and I'd suggest that 14 will be overkill by a significant margin. I understand and agree with the premise of "I want to use this because I already have it." However, if you haven't bought it, don't. 14 gauge is great for wiring up the outlets in your house. Your train is a substantially lighter load---probably 16 volts, maximum. The magnetic field created by such a small load will be neglible. Besides, what is the magnetic field going to effect besides your train? Your train will have it's own magnetic field for any electric components, and should not be affected by your wiring, under the table. 14 gauge or 22 gauge, the power running through it is still the same and the field won't be any stronger.

Best wishes on it!


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

A.) 14ga is MUCH too heavy
B.) I used 16ga/3-wire similar to speaker wire. Even 18ga would work in most applications. It is actually a low voltage wire more similar to that used in landscape lighting. Red is hot/black ground and the white is common. Feeder wire to the track is 20ga solid. Feeders to the switch motors(tortoise switches, in most cases, though I do have a few "snap switches for applications that need "faster" switch operation) is also 20ga. All "motors" for switches are under table mounted.
C.) Set up a bus/distribution bar. Much easier to wire shorter distances that dragging wire under the entire layout.
D.) Wire should be soldered to the outside of the rail every 6-8 feet minimum. Mine is connected every 4 feet, or so, as I have a modular layout and most modules are 4' in length. They are then "plugged" together using mini plugs purchased at Radio Shack. Plugs used for the different applications are "coded"(painted) with a stripe. (see below)
D.) Use different colored wire for different uses. Changing colors for lighting any structures, feeding any animation, or running your turntable. Makes trouble shooting less of a headache. Lighter colored wire is always the "hot, darker the ground, white, if used, is always the common.
E.) Label circuits and wire runs. Again, fewer headaches when troubleshooting.
F.) Learn to drink HEAVILY. Numbs the senses when problems arise. Drink more, pass out, and hit it again after recovering from the hangover.
G.) Use "looms" as much as possible to contain wires and keep the under table wiring from looking like an explosion in a spaghetti factory.
H.) Run multiple "hot" leads. That is, do not feed from a single hot feeder wire. Power will diminish with the length of the lead. even if running a loop circuit, the power lead at the longest distance from the feed will be lessened. This goes for both DCC and DC operation. Shorter run equal less power depreciation and reduction.

My wiring was designed by a friend that is an electrical engineer and fellow train enthusiast. It pays to know the right people. lol These are some of the things I remember him telling me when I built my layout. 

Bob


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

what are looms to wrap wires ?


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

also, what are plugs for feeder wires?


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Here is an example of a wire loom or wire holder though not like the ones I used: 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104025

I cannot find a good source to show you the "connectors". They are about the diameter of a dime and the length of the tip of your little finger to the knuckle, 2- or 3-prong. I got them either at Radio Shack or our local electrical supply house. They look like a miniature end to an extension cord. The outer cover is a push and twist locking deal. I believe they ran $3-$5 for a male and female set.

Bob


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

any problem just running 14ga Romex for my Red and Black wires for the buss and just stripping sections to solder feeder wires to it?


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

You will have a great deal of power loss using that heavy a wire. It's your layout though. I wouldn't use anything larger than 16ga or 18ga. You don't need anything larger. 

I'd power a power distribution buss and distribute from that. Solder leads to the rail every so often using a solid wire. Make sure to solder to the outside of the rail. 

Bob


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

thanks for all your suggestions


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

stationmaster said:


> You will have a great deal of power loss using that heavy a wire.


Hey Bob,

While I'm in full agreement with you that 14g wire is far too heavy for his needs, your comment above has me scratching my head ...

Shouldn't a large diameter wire REDUCE his power loss? I.e., large wire = low resistance = low power drop. Conversely, small diam wire = high resistance = high power drop.

Right?

Set me straight, otherwise ...

TJ


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## markone (May 23, 2010)

HI guy , the OP, dspender, will use DCC if I'm right, and with DCC, gauge 14 is the recomended practice, some like me use 12 gauge, 16 gauge is enough for the Amp, but the problem with DCC is the lost of signal, it's why We use large gauge wire. and for the twist, 1 twist every foot is enough. And yes tjcruiser , you are right, using large wire will have less power drop, the bigger the pipe the more water run in it. And for connect the feeders, strip the bus wire, and make 3 or 4 turns with the feeder on it and solder it after. Don't forget the rule with DCC, one feeder for every piece of track that it not solder to an other one.


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## dspender (Nov 29, 2009)

My NCE manual suggest 12 to 14 ga wire and 3 turns per foot


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Nice simile, markone, the more water but the less pressure. In order for a motor to turn, it needs volume, but it needs pressure too. There will be an amperage(pressure) drop with larger wire, though the voltage(volume) will remain the same. You need both to run a railroad!!

And if your wiring runs are shorter, even with a smaller gauge wire, signal loss is minimal. Liken it to a long hose, the longer the hose the greater loss of pressure. I used 12ga wire to my busses, then 16-18ga wire off of the busses to the track and devices.

The reason for the larger wire in DCC is not power, but the fact that "signal packets" from the DCC control module must traverse the wire. I know of some modelers using communication cable, I've never tried it, but it seems to work. And the theory behind its use makes sense. Damned expensive stuff though. 

I do have two Digitrax boosters, but could probably get by using just one. There are quite a few lights, switches, two turntables, smoke units for a fire and some factories, a transfer table, and signals on the layout that must be powered. One booster is dedicated to those, while the other is dedicated to the track itself. So, I guess, one could say I actually have two separate dedicated power systems on the layout. It was still a bear to wire, but I have had problem zero with operation.

Another note, DO NOT USE ALUMINUM WIRE. Aluminum will oxidize in a heart beat, thus restricting and inhibiting electrical flow. Not to mention that its conductivity, though close to copper, is not nearly as efficient.

Bob


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Not to grab control of the discussion, but I have a personal interest in following it---will be building a layout, soon. I'm trying to apply what I'm learning here to my own application. I'm doing an ac layout; rather than do the high-tech stuff, I'm going to create separate zones for several (polarity-matched) transformers. for a 12' x 5' layout, is there any reason that a 12 gauge buss and 16 or 18 gauge feeders would not be sufficient?


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

AC, Reckers? 110v? That could be shocking. Literally. I hope you mean DC rather than DCC.

Bob


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## markone (May 23, 2010)

Lionel and MTH use AC. if I remeber well betwen 18v and 22 volts


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

3-rail, correct? I have a hard time with anything than two rails.........lol

Bob


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## markone (May 23, 2010)

I notice Reckers is in S Scale, it can be AC or DC and both on 2 rails.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

You lost me there, Bob. My stuff is ac output AF, around 15 volts.


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