# Moving to DCC



## blrcantonment (Mar 17, 2019)

Hi all-
OK! I think my son and I are ready for DCC. A bunch of you fine folks gave me a lot to think about when we started with a set (I bought 2, one of each of my kids, baachmann, it worked out great). But now, we want to make things a bit more complicated, with track changes and lots of track. 

We want to this slow and steady - and easy on the pocket. (here's what we already have: 

https://smile.amazon.com/Bachmann-C...ho+scale+sets&qid=1558918199&s=gateway&sr=8-3

https://smile.amazon.com/Bachmann-T...226&s=gateway&sprefix=bachmann,aps,211&sr=8-9

Yeah, basic sets. I want to reuse track if I can, can DCC engines to start with, and then a controller. I started thinking about this when I wanted to get an bachmann ez track remote turn out, but then it turns out (no pun intended) that I don't have the right controller that can feed the remote power... so I was thinking...OK... lets look into DCC.

Any and all ideas welcome. Budget is the thing. I am fine with started with the cheapest engine on the market. I am happy to go all e-bay, slow and steady.

Thanks in advance!


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

DCC is a good choice. The power packs you have should have an AC fixed output on them which will work fine for your turnouts. The steel track that came with the first set should be set aside, never to see light again. You will need a DCC controller and a couple DCC locos. I recommend the NCE power cab but others have good suggestions also. A Bachmann DCC loco isn't all that expensive but sound will cost more. The rolling stock you have is fine for now however it may have horn/hook couplers, can't tell from the ads.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I just recently decided to add an On30 loop (uses HO track) to my 1:48 O-Gauge layout, and bought a DCC Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0 On30 loco and an NCE DCC "complete Starter Set." 

I was hoping there would be no technical glitches" and there were not. I was very easy. Just plugged it all together and the controller worked on the train the moment I fired it up. All I would recommend is, buy a DCC read train from Bachmann. 

I am impressed with DCC so far. Works well, and simple enough to use. I think it gets complicated if you want to run more than one train at a time, but that wont be my problem, so . . . Good luck to you and your son.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Running more than one train isn't complicated at all.

Each locomotive has their own unique address and each locomotive can be addressed in turn using the one controller. You simply and can quickly add the locomotive to the menu selection and that allows you to cycle through them on the main display like any other computer menu display.

I run up to four locomotives at the same time using the NCE Powercab, two turnouts, and several lamps and signals. No problems.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

*OP:*

Looking at the links you provided in post 1, I'm wondering if either of those engines has a "plug" for easy conversion to dcc.

If they do, conversion to dcc is easy -- just find a suitable dcc decoder and plug it in.

But..._ if they DON'T_ -- this makes conversion to dcc much more difficult, because you have to "hand wire" a decoder into it.

In that case, it might be easier to just buy engines that are already "dcc-equipped" (most of those have sound as well), or... buy new (or used) engines that are "dcc ready", and plug in the decoders yourself. This still involves taking the shell off, connecting the decoder, and setting it up using your dcc controller.

I'm in the minority in this forum, but I prefer and recommend the Roco "z21" system for wireless dcc, which you control with either a smartphone or a tablet (can be iOS or Android) via a graphical interface. Younger kids will take to this immediately.

I suggest you go to YouTube and view a few videos searching on "roco z21". There is the expensive version (black "Z21") but there's also a much cheaper version ("z21 Start") that does almost everything the more expensive one does.

The app is a free download, you can try it right now on a smartphone or tablet (go to iOS App Store or Google Play and search on "z21").

But again, be aware that the equipment that you already have (the locomotives) may not be easily "converted" to dcc. You'll have to check them and see...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The details of the sets you posted do not seem to indicate
that either of the two locos is 'DCC ready'. However,
you might check the manual that came with them
to make certain. If not, that would
mean you would need to add decoders by wiring
them in, which is actually easier than you would think.

In the case
of the GP40, it likely has a 'light board'. There is an
NCE DCC decoder that is designed to replace the Bachmann
light board. I'm not familiar with the steamer so
others will have to comment on it.

The major sellers of DCC systems are Bachmann,
Digitrax, NCE and MRC. All but the Bachmann are
full feature systems. The Bachmann can run all of
the train functions but lacks ability to fine tune
decoders as can the other systems.

Be aware, however, that no DCC system provides
power for turnouts or accessories. The two power
packs that came with your trains are ideal for those
purposes.

Many of us recommend that those who are more
serious about their layout plans avoid all of the
track systems such as came with your sets. Instead
go with flex track which comes in 3 foot sections that
can be cut and 'bent' to match your track design. It
also is compatible with all track accessories such as
turnouts from various makers. My recommendation
is to use Peco Insulfrog turnouts.

Don


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

*NCE* Powercab will provide power for decoder-equipped turnout machines. In fact, it must or you would not be able to control them using the decoder.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> *NCE* Powercab will provide power for decoder-equipped turnout machines. In fact, it must or you would not be able to control them using the decoder.


Yes and no. It provides a DCC power output, which can be wired to a stationary decoder, which will drive a switch machine, which will move s turnout's points, but you can't connect it directly to a switch machine and power a remote operator. Most other DCC units work this way too.


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## Atlanta (Apr 29, 2019)

Me I decided to move onto DCC a few years ago after collecting allready around 40 Locomotives.

I found out that there were different plugs inside the DC Engines and some others without any plugs, so I will have lot of work the next coming years equipping my locos with sound secoders and loudspeakers.

Me I am using the more older Roco DCC system with the MultiMouse.

Much better in modern times is the Z21 generations but attention to how the Z21 will be written, it gives a few differences to all of them.

The white box of the z21 START is a very easy Start Version for getting same functions like the white z21 you need to download some extra software after buying the software codes separately.

The z21 START does not incluede the funktion to use your android smartphone you need to use the cable version of the red (Roco) or grey (Fleischmann) MultiMouse.

The white z21 allows to use Android Smartphones only (Caution: At the USA mobile phones using 1300 Mhz, the z21 is desighned to use european standard of 900 Mhz or 1800 Mhz, only, tri-band mobile cell phones have all three frequencies aboard...the 1300 Mhz are prohibited frequencies in most european countries)
The z21 are not desighned to use a repeating bus for detecting equipment.

The black Z21 is the full version of all available features and has the bus for decting equipment.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

For the OP, any DCC set from Digitrax, MRC, or NCE will work for your purposes. The z21 is fine, too, IF you find a touch screen interface acceptable (many of us don't, which is why we don't consider it when recommending systems). Bachmann and MRC also make limited feature systems (EZ Command and Prodigy Explorer, respectively -- but neither of these allows multiple controllers, so they probably won't be good in your case). The only system I don't recommend is Bachmann's Dynamis system -- it has too many limitations on expansion to be any good.

My personal recommendation is not for any one system, but to try as many as you can and pick the one that feels best to you -- both the look and feel of the devices and how easy it is for you to operate. Also, if you have a nearby club, you might consider getting what they use, because you will have access to a lot of help and advice.

On the stuff you have... honestly, you have started at the very low end of the quality scale, and much of what you have isn't going to be worth keeping. The track that came with those systems is steel, and since DCC is much more sensitive to dirty / corroded track than DC, you will probably have trouble with it down the road. My advice is to start over with some quality nickel-silver track. If you really like the roadbed stuff, Kato Unitrack is probably the best available, and Atlas True Track is second best. 

With the roadbed track, though, you are limited to the geometry of the available pieces. My recommendation would be to learn to use flex track, and use high-quality turnouts (Walthers or Peco). Use slow motion switch machines (Tortoise or Smail) fro Ciruitron, or servo-based ones from Tam Valley Depot (my preference) or Walthers to control the movement of your turnouts.

The rolling stock you got with your train sets can be made to run well with a little modification (couplers and wheels); the locos are a little more dicey. You will probably have to solder your own decoders in there, which really isn't a job for a beginner.

I understand the desire to be easy on the pocket book, but unfortunately, like golf and skiing, this isn't a cheap hobby. Make a wish list and buy better stuff as you can afford it. This will serve you better in the log run than buying cheap stuff.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

One more time...



MichaelE said:


> *NCE Powercab will provide power for decoder-equipped turnout machines.* In fact, it must or you would not be able to control them using the decoder.


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## SPfan4ever (Mar 25, 2019)

Lee Willis said:


> I just recently decided to add an On30 loop (uses HO track) to my 1:48 O-Gauge layout, and bought a DCC Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0 On30 loco and an NCE DCC "complete Starter Set."
> 
> I was hoping there would be no technical glitches" and there were not. I was very easy. Just plugged it all together and the controller worked on the train the moment I fired it up. All I would recommend is, buy a DCC read train from Bachmann.
> 
> I am impressed with DCC so far. Works well, and simple enough to use. I think it gets complicated if you want to run more than one train at a time, but that wont be my problem, so . . . Good luck to you and your son.


+1 for the NCE starter set. I had a DCC ready loco, put all the plugs in the correct places and I had control. I think what this posted wanted to say is " buy a DCC *ready* train from Bachman".. EDIT: JUST READ over the thread again and I guess the term I should use is " buy a DCC equipped engine to get the basic control with the NCE. Buy a DCC equipped engine with sound for the most fun. Not sure of some definition DCC ready, but I would go one more and get one favorite engine with DCC and SOUND. I finally got one and it is a whole new ballgame of fun with the lights, horn, bell and more I have not explored. any kids will probably wear out the horn button having fun. Good Luck - yes expensive start, but you do need the quality equipment as you go.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

The definition of 'DCC Ready' is a locomotive that has a plug for the jack on a decoder card.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I can only add, if ya try to go with the cheapest system, you will be disappointed in a very short time, then ya go out and buy a better system. End result, you will have paid much more for a DCC system than you really should have.


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## blrcantonment (Mar 17, 2019)

Bwells said:


> DCC is a good choice. The power packs you have should have an AC fixed output on them which will work fine for your turnouts. The steel track that came with the first set should be set aside, never to see light again. You will need a DCC controller and a couple DCC locos. I recommend the NCE power cab but others have good suggestions also. A Bachmann DCC loco isn't all that expensive but sound will cost more. The rolling stock you have is fine for now however it may have horn/hook couplers, can't tell from the ads.


Thanks. Question on the powerpack. The ones I have is this model:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BACHMANN-E...376213&hash=item51f79886dc:g:tB0AAOSwnONZCPBD

It doesn't have a place for me to insert the power clips from the turnout. So maybe I might need something else?

I am bit away from DCC, probably a month or two of research, maybe. I am thinking instead of a NCE power cab, I can do an app on my iphone? Like WIThrottle? I use an iphone, and I do have WIFI at home...

Thanks for your tips.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

First, I agree that the easiest and quickest thing for a newcomer is to get a "DCC _equiped_" loco. Also make sure it has the sound car with it. I saw one that had fine print that said you had to buy the optional sound card to slip into the ready slot to get sound. 

I played with my Bachmann ON30 4-6-0 DDC & sound equiped loco some yesterday with several different power options. The NCE starter set I bought works well: plug and play, intuitive if you just read the button labels. 

However, I put it back in the box for now and am going to go with just DC operation. The reason is:
1) DC is simpler, I'm going to have just onepower supply initially connected to my ON30, and DC runs everything . . . some of my locos won't hve DCC.
2) The Bachmann loco runs fine in normal DC too, with sound, good controllability.
3) Surprisingly, while slowest speed in DCC was lower than slowest speed in conventional DC (1.3 vs 3.3 scale mph), top speed was lower in DCC than in conventional DC. I checked all the setting snad tried 28 and 128 step ranges, etc. No go: DCC top speed was no more than 19 scale mph. DC only was up to 25.
4) DCC really give me no advantages running a train I want. What it controls that conventional does not is not things I really care about.
In the future I will probably have both DCC and DC connected so I can use either. No doubt I will run into locos that run much better in DCC than DC. But that is not any I have so far . .


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## Atlanta (Apr 29, 2019)

If you would controlling your turnouts with you DCC hand held throttle than you will need to add Turnout decoders, so that you can controlling them. If you will controlling Signals, too you are in need of signal decoders and specially other detecting equipment and your DCC Unit need to provide the detecting signals. 

Not all DCC Units can doing this. The Roco Z21 can it. 
The more cheaper z21 or z21 START can't it.

Reading out the CVs of decoders is another big problem of some european DCC Systems, speciallyfor the cheaper Roco/Fleischmann DCC Uinits.

By programming CVs to the Decoders it is sometimes a pain and several done resets are the rusult until you got the complicated way for programming it.

With the CVs you caan programming the locos highes speed onto a lower level and the other speed CVs reducing their speed, too that you can run your locos in much lower speed than on DC.

I am using DCC for running my locos, only, the switching of signals or turnouts is not from my interest with DCC.

Sure my Signals will get DCC Decoders so that train will stop on red signal but my Interlocking I am trying to build mechanical or electromechanical like the real RR did it onto their mechanical interlocking towers, too.

The SIEMENS Interlocking System of 1892 I want to add onto my Layouts, that is my goal.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Atlanta wrote:
_"The z21 START does not include the funktion to use your android smartphone"_

Not sure what you mean by this.

I have a "z21 Start" (white box) and I use it with two Android devices:
- Samsung S2 tablet
_and_
- A VERY OLD Samsung "Galaxy player" handheld (looks like an old smartphone but it's not a phone, just a music player with old version of Android.

The z21 works just fine with both. In fact, the version of Android on the Galaxy player is so old that most (other) apps won't even run on it any more. But the older z21 app runs without a hitch. Kudos to Roco for having the foresight to make their software backward-compatible.

I did buy the companion TP Link router (came pre-programmed and with the unlock code as well). Everything went together quite easily.

The z21 system seems to work with almost anything:
iOS/Android handheld or phone
iOS/Android tablet
Wired Roco Minimaus (perhaps some other wired controllers as well)
Computer (Mac or Windows, wired or wifi).

Also, the z21 Start can be found at very good prices (may have to buy from European sellers via ebay).
The router can be found for sale in the USA.
The control software is freely downloadable (can be used to "see what it's like" even if you don't have the z21 yet).

The OP is _"just getting into things"._
I doubt he would need the extra capabilities of the "black" Z21.
The white z21 or z21 Start should do just fine.

I don't know why CTValleyRR keeps inferring that the z21 isn't suitable for those who prefer "regular" (i.e., non-touchscreen) controls.
Roco offers several wired "MiniMaus" button-style handhelds as well.
As such, it can be used as can any of the other "wired, button" type controls.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The Bachmann EZ DC controller doesn't appear to
have the accessories terminals common to most
DC power packs.

To power your turnouts you can use any surplus
wall wart with an output of 12 or so volts, either
AC or DC. If you don't have one, there are often
stalls at Flea markets offering a selection of them.
The output information is always on an attached label.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> One more time...


And it's just as oversimplified this time as it was the last time...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Lee Willis said:


> First, I agree that the easiest and quickest thing for a newcomer is to get a "DCC _equiped_" loco. Also make sure it has the sound car with it. I saw one that had fine print that said you had to buy the optional sound card to slip into the ready slot to get sound.
> 
> I played with my Bachmann ON30 4-6-0 DDC & sound equiped loco some yesterday with several different power options. The NCE starter set I bought works well: plug and play, intuitive if you just read the button labels.
> 
> ...


For just controlling one train at a time -- and having all other locomotives on the layout physically isolated from the power -- then you're right that DC is both simpler and more intuitive.

For more locomotives, on live track or actually running at the same time, though DCC gives you a degree of control that you cannot achieve in DC without a lot of fancy wiring and switch-throwing.

As far as the speed goes -- what you get in DC is what you get. With DCC, you can program the upper limit of the decoder (in either 28 or 128 speed steps -- those give more granularity, not more power) to send more power to the motor, thus increasing the speed.

The advantages of DCC really depend on what you want to do with it.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> And it's just as oversimplified this time as it was the last time...


Please tell me how over complicated does it have to be to explain that a turnout equipped with a DCC decoder can be controlled with a DCC controller???

It's not rocket science. That I know.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> *NCE* Powercab will provide power for decoder-equipped turnout machines. In fact, it must or you would not be able to control them using the decoder.


I don't think they fully understand what we are using to be honest, and the way we are using them. In a sense, it's symantics, whether it is powering a stationary decoder, that is built into the switch machine and/or the stationary decides to power lights, signals, etc(your still using the power pulses from the dcc system to both power and control the machine). My layout is a perfect example, nothing but my dcc system powers and controls every last accessory(the switch machine we use, speak directly in the manual about the positive and negative effects of wiring/powering directly from the dcc bus).

The more intelligent way to wire and setup an all DCC run layout is simply to set up districts and what I like to think of, as power grids(with separate circuit breakers) . Then, in cases of shorts, say, your lighting will not be affected by a Loco short, and same with your signals, and vice versa. Even block detection is powered and controlled by the dcc system(speaking of the BD20's). 

But the whole system "is" powered and controlled by the dcc bus(the booster), signals and addressing, just as with your locomotives. I am not sure how the other systems work, but this is the control you can have over a NCE system if you want. 

But to just start out, suffice to say, that it is extremely easy to begin and set up a basic system. Will probably at most, take 45 minutes. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

blrcantonment said:


> Thanks. Question on the powerpack. The ones I have is this model:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/BACHMANN-E...376213&hash=item51f79886dc:g:tB0AAOSwnONZCPBD
> 
> ...


It looks like conversation above may not have addressed OPs latest comment fully.

Turnouts don't have "power clips/plugs", the switch motor (device that physically actuates the turnout, can be built in or separate) does, and even then I wouldn't call the motor terminals "power clips".
At any rate you don't just connect switch motor terminals to aux power, you need some sort of turnout controller. Since you talking about DCC you going to use stationary decoder to actuate switch motors. Example would be DS64 by digitrax. Can be configured to accept commands from both throttle device and from control panel you custom build .

As for "withrottle", having a phone app does not eliminate the need of some sort of command station. Digitrax offers wifi add-on module that looks like a very straight forward way to connect a phone, but their stater system while solid wouldn't be my choice ( NCE gets my vote) . I'd say wait on the phone idea for now and just get some trains running digitally.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> Please tell me how over complicated does it have to be to explain that a turnout equipped with a DCC decoder can be controlled with a DCC controller???
> 
> It's not rocket science. That I know.


This runs the risk of degenerating into an unhelpful pissing contest, but since you asked.....

Rocket science it is not. It does, however have the subtlety that the controller requires a dcc decoder, and most of them don't come with one readily installed. By adding the additional details on how, exactly, everything works together, and clearly identifying all the pieces involved, you improve the odds that a complete newbie (like the OP) will say, "Oh, I get it" rather that reading as short statement that could easily be misinterpreted to mean that NCE systems (and presumably no others, which is incorrect) can run turnout motors out of the box.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It's not rocket science but DCC, DCS, or TMCC/Legacy can be intricate and involved technically, if you push the technology and/or applications or are matching equipment from different companies (e.g, Marklin and NCE), it can require work, experimentation, and more than a bit of frustration sometimes to get hardware and programming set up what you want both works, and does not interfere with the operation of other things you had working . . . 

But getting all that to work - becoming a "DCC-guru" or "TMCC-Legacy wizard " or "DSC-magician" or an expert whatever system you want, and mastering it to make it work, is a fun part of the hobby for many people. I have several friends who I've observed seem to like that as much as the trains, frankly. Cool, but that's not me. Just too much like at work all those years, as an EE.

I've put away the DCC system for my On30 system. No amount of following the instructions or re-programming would up the top speed of that Baldwin loco, and while it is easy to operate, and apparently robust, it doesn't do anything I want to do, better than just using DC conventionally. I will be operating only to trains on the same loop, but using a simple block staging system to keep them separated by at least twenty feet, and three to five switches, each with a button on a switchboard. So I will keep it simple for now. 

That said, I'm buying only "DCC and sound equipped" locos. Just in case . . .


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

I think this thread has gone "beyond the boundaries" of what the OP was looking to find out.

Sounds like he's looking for something relatively basic for himself and the kids.

_*OP:*_
We haven't heard back from you, don't get bamboozled if the discussion is "getting too thick" for your tastes.

For basic dcc, you'll need:
- a dcc system that is easy for you and the kids to use
_and_
- dcc equipped locomotives.

I'm guessing that the engines you have now might be too much trouble to convert to dcc (only way to know is to check to see if they have a plug for a dcc decoder).

Again, there are many dcc control systems available.
I'd suggest you visit YouTube and search on "roco z21".


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Just my 2cents.
OP: if you are still reading this thread go to youtube and type in dcc system comparison chart and you will find out what you need to go DCC. See if you can find a video from The Lofty N-Scaler he goes thru most of the systems and tells you about them not what system is the "Best" only you can decide that for yourself.


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