# Restore or leave original



## Boomn4x4 (Dec 3, 2011)

I just acquired an old O scale Lionel train set that was my wife's grandfather's set from when he was a boy, I'm guessing 1920's. Anyway, the train cars are in pretty rough shape... functional, but ugly.

One thing I have seen on various tv shows that deal with antiques is that the "experts" typically say that the antiques are more valuable if left in their original condition... which I can understand, but I have no intention on ever selling the set, so its monetary value is irrelevant to me. I really would like to strip the cars down and do a complete refinishing on them.... is it really that bad of an idea to do so? If you were to walk into my living room and see the train around my Christmas tree, would you rather see it in original condition or looking nicely painted and clean?


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Pictures would help determine that better.

One thing to think about. I'm sure most of the "damage" was done by your wife's grandfather as a young kid (or whoever else played with it). Some don't care about that and just strip them and paint them up nicely. I like to leave blemishes as they are because it's part of the piece's history. Really up to you but that's just my opinion.


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## Boomn4x4 (Dec 3, 2011)




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## Boomn4x4 (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, I know almost nothing about the set... and am having problems finding info on the set as I cannot find any model or serial numbers. If anyone could tell me about it, I'd appreciate it.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I believe the engine is a Lionel #5 Special which was made from 1906-1923(?). The caboose is a Lionel 117 (1912-1926). The boxcar is a Lionel 14 (1906-1926)

I would highly recommend that you don't repaint that set given it's age and rarity. (according to my David Doyle Lionel Catalog, the engine a 7 on a scale of 1-8 with 8 being the rarest). Anything painted, especially if it's not done professionally is going to decrease in price (in most cases). You have a great set. The paint appears to be pretty good for it's age (I've seen stuff from the 50's that looks worse).


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I would not mess with them, they are far from rolling wrecks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm in the other camp, I'd like to see them restored.


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## Zeke (Feb 22, 2011)

Hmmm, I'm on the fence on this one. I'm not seeing any major damage and I like how the lettering has stood up so well over time. On the other hand, it would be kind of neat to see the pieces restored to their former glory.

I wonder if it would be worth having them professionally appraised? If the set's not worth that much and you want to do the restoration then go for it. Then again, if it's worth a fair amount of money as-is, that might change your mind.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Boom,

I've become known as the Tinman around here ... for stripping and restoring old Lionel trains. I enjoy making old rusted relics look near new. That said ...

You have a very, very old Lionel train ... quite rare. I would highly encourage you to NOT attempt to strip or refinish the train. I really believe that to do so would be to destroy a little bit of Lionel's early-era remaining history and tangible fabric.

You have a rare treasure ... tattered, a bit, but really not bad for it's age. Please, please keep it original. (A very careful light cleaning, motor lube, etc. is OK.)

Regards,

TJ


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## JRich52804 (Nov 6, 2011)

I found one of these engine and tenders for sale at this link. You can see the price they are asking. Nobody bid on it yet, but it is a nice price for the condition.

http://www.epier.com/product.asp?1919266


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is a "don't touch them" case. They are very very old and you will devalue them. The stuff we do is common enough and worth a little something. Yours is different. They were made in the first 20 years Lionel was in buisness.


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

I agree with T-Man. It's not just a beautiful, original set, but also part of a legacy. Have the engine looked at(serviced) by a professional, and enjoy them as they are


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

They are in excellent shape for being 100 years old or close!!!
It would be a huge loss to refinish them.
I'm totally into fixing up and finishing them if they are common and this is so far from that case! I don't think I've ever seen a nicer old stock look in a train!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Does that mean I'm out-voted?  Probably for the best. :laugh:


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## Boomn4x4 (Dec 3, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Does that mean I'm out-voted?  Probably for the best. :laugh:


Affirmative :laugh:.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

:appl::smilie_daumenpos::appl:
Whispers over shoulder "Tell the Lynch Mob they aren't going to be needed this time"

Good call sir!


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## TulsaFlyer (Sep 21, 2009)

I have to agree with most here. 
What you have is historical treasure.


Jody


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I like the patina it has now, but it sure would look good with new paint too.

You don't care about value I say make it like new.:thumbsup:

Sometimes something restored right will up it's value too, take an old rusted 55 Corvette and restore it.
What would be worth more? The rusted car or the restored car?

I say if that is what you want go for it.

You are missing a piece off the top front of the boiler you know?

What do you think it is?:smokin:


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

Keep it in original condition.


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

big ed said:


> Sometimes something restored right will up it's value too, take an old rusted 55 Corvette and restore it.
> What would be worth more? The rusted car or the restored car?


Of course, the restored car...

PROVIDED:
_It's restored correctly by a known restorer_
Otherwise, it's just another amateur restoration.

You also have to look at values *when you factor in* the cost of the restoration.

If you pay $12,500 for the rusted out '55 Corvette, but it'll cost you $65,000 to bring it to showroom or better condition - then you have to ask whether it'll be worth $77,500 or more. (I'm using numbers pulled from the air).

I'd imagine the same would be true for trains. If a full pro restoration on the train is going to run you $2000 - will it make the value of the train $2000 plus what ever it cost you to acquire it?

Maybe final value is of no importance, in which case, do what pleases you. It's YOUR TRAIN. :thumbsup:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*What do you have?*

I use a Prewar train book by David Doyle. Easily found on Amazon.com.

The Engine is a 5 Special, 1910 is the earliest of your version that is a type III. That is because you have a two truck slope back tender. The side cab and tender are marked NYC & H.R.R.R. You are missing a front light above the boiler.

The engine was made when the company was only five years old and rates a 7, the top category for rarest. A TCA member could verify it and grade the quality of your engine. 

Enjoy


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Or, you can sell it to me for a quick, easy 100-bucks!


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## Boomn4x4 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks for all your help guys. I, going against most of your advice, decided to try and get it running myself. I did a pretty detailed inspection of the train, specifically checked the condition of the wires. Also took pictures of the wires and drew out the schematics of them just in case I broke a wire and needed to replace it. Took the train body apart, only took three screws which came out easily. Gave the motor a hard soaking with goo-gone and let it sit. Blew it out with an air compressor. Resoaked it with more goo-gone. Then went at it with an old nylon baby bottle brush. A couple spots needed some extra attention with some pretty heavy build up, I found a wire .22 brush from my gun cleaning kit a perfect tool. One more soaking... one more air compressor blast and a few drops of Remington gun oil and it was back on the track.... Runs GREAT!!! I couldn't quite get it to pull the tender, boxcar, and caboose.... wheels just spun, but it ran great without the tender. I'm sure if I oiled up the wheels on the cars I could get it going, but I'm not too interested on stressing the motor any more than I need too.

Here's a quick video of the train in action.


Also took some better pictures.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I care more about the motor than the shell. The motor was not listed under the Olsen library so compatible parts at this point are in question.

Thanks for the great pictures!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Boom,

That's fabulous that you got the motor/loco running ... 100 years of fun! That said, you're running awfully close to the edge, my friend. For you, I offer my special prayer reserved for those few who dared to venture so close to the dreaded edge ...

"Ohh, exhalted King Gravitus ... I beseech thee to please be kind to Boomn4x4. He dare doth venture ever so close to the Dreaded Edge. Nay ... sayeth not what you must think. For his intentions are most noble and pure. I implore you ... please grant him safe passage through The Land of Gravity so that he may live freely to see another glorius day in your kingdom."

"For if we all pay due heed and homage to King Gravitus, and from this point hence do solemnly vow to move thy goods and wares away from the Dreaded Edge, we may soon find peace and harmony in our beloved land. But, alas! ... Ye who persist to be tempted by the siren wails of The Edge shall pay a dear price and move thusforth forward into the future in squalor amidst broken piles of rubble and forlorn dreams."​
Pay good heed to these words of wisdom ... pay good heed ...


TJ


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

"As your spiritual leader, I implore you pay heed to this good book and what it has to say!!"

>>BOOM!<<

"Son, you're on your own."

:thumbsup:


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## Boomn4x4 (Dec 3, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> Boom,
> 
> That's fabulous that you got the motor/loco running ... 100 years of fun! That said, you're running awfully close to the edge, my friend.
> TJ


Not sure I'm following you, but if by "the edge", you mean the edge of the table it is on and it might fall off... then fear not. Its going already off the table, I'll be putting it around the christmas tree this evening after my son goes to sleep.

If by "the edge" you mean that with my tinkering, I'm on the edge of doing damage to it by messing with something I don't fully understand and the "tinkering" should be left in the hands of a professioins... again, fear not. I won't be doing anything else to the train.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The dreaded edge of the table! Yikes !!! That's a long way down for a very rare, valuable train!


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## Boomn4x4 (Dec 3, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> The dreaded edge of the table! Yikes !!! That's a long way down for a very rare, valuable train!


Gotcha... I thought about that AFTER I saw how fast it was going... didn't think I would get it to work so well.

Everything is going to be fine though :thumbsup:. Last night, I wrapped it back up, and tonight I'll be setting it up safely on the ground around the Christmas tree.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It almost looks like the engine was already at one time repainted.
Where the lettering is, it looks like a paint run in the last picture of the engine.

Tender missing a light too?

So......paint it or leave it?

edit, 
your missing a flag holder too.
the top of the cab hatch is missing too.


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