# Advice on Switches : Atlas Snap-switches vs Custom-line #4



## HO Modeler

Hello,

I'm in the process of putting together a 4'x8' layout in HO. I'm currently using old brass switches that I was able to get for very little money. Most are Atlas snap switches. The switches work reasonably well, but I get dead spots sometimes and it's difficult to keep things running smoothly. 

Before I finalize my layout and start gluing things down, I'm hoping to upgrade to modern nickel silver switches. 

I'm a bit confused about the various options available, and I was hoping you guys could help me out. I've read what I can on the forums, but it's still difficult to decide what to use on a small layout like mine.

1. Am I better off using Atlas Customline switches instead of snap switches? It seems that the main benefit is that the customline ones are more prototypical, but I might also need to redesign some of my layout because the departure angle is different.

2. Snap switches come with a machine attached, but Customline ones do not. Can anyone recommend a machine that works with DCC? I see that Circuitron Tortoise is well recommended, but it's also very expensive.

Thank you,

Nick


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## Roger Hensley

>>1. Am I better off using Atlas Customline switches instead of snap switches? 

Short answer: Yes. You will be more satisfied with the Customline, and, yes, you will have to redraw your layout to accommodate them as they do not turn as sharply as the Snap Switch.

>>2. Snap switches come with a machine attached, but Customline ones do not. Can anyone recommend a machine that works with DCC? I see that Circuitron Tortoise is well recommended, but it's also very expensive. 

You can buy Atlas switch machines which are just like the Snap Switch or you can go for the Tortoise. Yes, the Tortoise is more expensive and a little harder to install, but it is a great switch machine. I still have one in reserve after changing out my old switch machines. 

I personally recommend the Customline and the Tortoise. There are other choices of course, but that is my recommendation.


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## CTValleyRR

Atlas Snap Switches are at the bottom end of model railroad equipment. Unless you enjoy derailments and stalls, I don't recommend them to anyone.

The primary thing about them is that their diverging leg uses a 1/3 segment of 18" radius curve, so that they fit nicely into oval layouts which use those curves. There are other brands (Bachmann, Life-Like) that use a similar configuration, but they are of similar quality too. If you upgrade to better turnouts, you wiĺl change the track configuration, as they use a more prototypical straight diverging leg.

Atlas Customline, Peco, Walthers, and MicroEngineering are all good, readily available brands. Each of them has a number (#4, for instance). This is the angle at which the diverging leg takes off -- so a #4 turnout diverges 1 unit of distance for every 4 units travelled. Longer locos and cars will have trouble negotiating lower turnout numbers (but they'll have trouble with that 18" radius curve segment too). All of these work well with DCC, although some require insulated rail joints to work properly.

Don't let the "machine" that comes with the Snap Switches fool you. You don't get something for nothing. Some of them are just a huge piece of plastic holding a mechanical slide lever. Others, designed for remote operation, are a twin coil solenoid which "snaps" the points from side to side, accelerating the wear on an already flimsy design, and which are prone to burning out if the actuation switch is held for too long.

If you want mechanical, local operation of your points, one solution is to use Peco turnouts. Their points are sprung, and can be flipped with a finger, pencil, or whatever. Or you can use a higher quality operator like the Caboose Industries ground throw.

If you want remote operation of your turnouts, there are several brands you can choose from, and most of them are comparable in cost. Most also have a gentler stall motor operation, which moves the points at a slower, more prototypical speed, taking a few seconds for a full throw. Normally, these are mounted directly beneath the turnout, either in the roadbed or under the table. Tortoise machines are a fool-proof option, as are miniature servo motors (I use servos from Tam Valley Depot and love them). Expect to pay about $20 per turnout for these options, but in my book, it's money well spent.

There are a lot of places you can save money in the hobby, but going cheap on your turnouts and controls isn't one of them. Spend the money to get quality components, and take the time to install them well. Then it's once and done, rather than a potential lifetime of frustration.


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## HO Modeler

Thank you for the detailed information. I think I will go with the Customline switches then, although I will look at the Peco as well. Those Caboose Industries ground throws look nice and I might consider using them instead of going for remote operation.

Thanks again for the help!

Nick


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## traction fan

*Snap switch?*



HO Modeler said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm in the process of putting together a 4'x8' layout in HO. I'm currently using old brass switches that I was able to get for very little money. Most are Atlas snap switches. The switches work reasonably well, but I get dead spots sometimes and it's difficult to keep things running smoothly.
> 
> Before I finalize my layout and start gluing things down, I'm hoping to upgrade to modern nickel silver switches.
> 
> I'm a bit confused about the various options available, and I was hoping you guys could help me out. I've read what I can on the forums, but it's still difficult to decide what to use on a small layout like mine.
> 
> 1. Am I better off using Atlas Customline switches instead of snap switches? It seems that the main benefit is that the customline ones are more prototypical, but I might also need to redesign some of my layout because the departure angle is different.
> 
> 2. Snap switches come with a machine attached, but Customline ones do not. Can anyone recommend a machine that works with DCC? I see that Circuitron Tortoise is well recommended, but it's also very expensive.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Nick


Nick;

I would take the Custom Line over the Snap Switch. There are important differences besides the appearance. (See the file "Improving Atlas turnouts" below for more info about the Snap Switch.) However I would take the Walthers/Shinohara turnouts, or the excellent Peco turnouts over either of the Atlas ones. They are more expensive, but better made, and more reliable. I make my own turnouts because, when I started out, the N-scale code 55 type I wanted was not available commercially. (Today there are three different brands of them) 
Turnouts, and the machines that operate them, are two of the most expensive items on most model railroads. You can save a lot of money, at the cost of time, by making your own turnouts, switch machines, or both. (See attached files below for details on this and other subjects) Those switch machines attached to the Atlas Snap Switches are, in my personal opinion, junk. They are very weak, and most of the problems in the Snap Switch's flawed design relate right back to the weakness of the Atlas switch machine. They can, and do, function,(sort of) but not always reliably. If you do decide to use these Atlas machines, or any twin-coil machine, I strongly recommend using a capacitive discharge unit with them. Otherwise they can, and do, burn out and smoke. Yes the Tortoise is highly regarded as an excellent switch machine, and yes it is quite expensive.
How many turnouts do you think your layout will need? If you will be using only three or four, then you might be just as well off to buy them. If however, like most of us, you need more than that, maybe a lot more, then I would recommend seriously considering making your own. Particularly if you have more time than money. Read through the files when you have a chance and decide what is best for you.

good luck with whatever you choose;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

NOTE: These files, and more,+ a lot of helpful info, from many experienced modelers, are in the "Help a new modeler to get started" Post at the start of this "Beginner's Q&A" section. 

View attachment Improving Atlas turnouts pdf version.pdf


View attachment Where do I start (revised version).pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


View attachment Model Railroad Terminology 2.1.pdf


View attachment Introductory letter for $5 switch machine.pdf


View attachment Assembly instructions for $5 switch machine..pdf


View attachment How I scratch build turnouts new(8).pdf


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## HO Modeler

Thank you Traction Fan for the guides and advice. My current layout plan uses 10 turnouts, so it's definitely a big expense buying all new ones! It's good to know that building my own is an option.


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## traction fan

*Other post on same subject*



HO Modeler said:


> Thank you Traction Fan for the guides and advice. My current layout plan uses 10 turnouts, so it's definitely a big expense buying all new ones! It's good to know that building my own is an option.


 HO Modeler;

You're quite welcome. I don't know if you have read the post "HO track and switches"from Trainlove, or not. Its on the same general subject, and you might find it interesting, The post is down the list two or three from this one of yours, in this same "Beginner's Q&A" section.

I know I sort of bombarded you with a lot of info in all those files.(TMI?)  However you can take your time and scan through any that you think might apply to your own situation. Pick and choose, mix and match, any way you like.
The "How I scratchbuild turnouts" one contains a detailed explanation of the costs in money, and time.

If you can't afford Tortoise machines, the "Five dollar switch machine" is a viable substitute. It installs like a Tortoise, and works in much the same way, except it has no slow speed motor. Instead it is manually operated, at a distance, by simple rod-in-a-tube linkages. I use the same linkages on my own layout.

Good luck with whatever you choose;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## HO Modeler

Thanks again Traction Fan. I hadn't noticed the post from Trainlove earlier, and there's definitely a lot in there that's helpful for me as well. Definitely don't worry about bombarding me with too much information haha - I appreciate the help! It might take me some time to read through all the guides, but I'm definitely eager to learn as much as I can.


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## traction fan

*Are you new?*



HO Modeler said:


> Thanks again Traction Fan. I hadn't noticed the post from Trainlove earlier, and there's definitely a lot in there that's helpful for me as well. Definitely don't worry about bombarding me with too much information haha - I appreciate the help! It might take me some time to read through all the guides, but I'm definitely eager to learn as much as I can.


HO=Modeler;

That's one of the principal functions of this forum; experienced modelers helping new ones. There is a lot of information available here in the "Beginner's Q&A" section, and in the rest of the forum as well. If you are just starting out in model railroading, you might benefit from a good book on the subject. Look into "Getting started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. It can be ordered from https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books 

good luck,& have fun.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan

*Buying or making*



HO Modeler said:


> Thank you Traction Fan for the guides and advice. My current layout plan uses 10 turnouts, so it's definitely a big expense buying all new ones! It's good to know that building my own is an option.


 HO Modeler;

Good quality commercial turnouts (Peco, Walthers, Micro Engineering) retail for about $30 ea. Ten would cost you $300.
Making ten would cost $50 or less, but take up lots of time.
Same story with switch machines. Ten Tortoise motors $180. Ten of my D.I.Y. type $50 or less. Not much time involved with these either. You could probably make all ten in a day or two. Of course you might find sales or other deals that would bring down the prices of the commercial products, but its still going to cost a lot of money unfortunately. 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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