# From scribbles to tracks on a board.



## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

What started as some scribbles on a piece of paper, was turned into the electronic drawing done by someone here.

Then, went to the shop and got some track.

I am using N scale Kato Unitrack



That is how it now looks.

Now for the challenges I still need to work out:



1) The train can go straight, but once it gets halfway through the cross track when it is switched to the inner loop, the engine dies. I am guessing it is a power issue. Anyone know what I need to do?



2) The yard. For some reason, I cannot find a length of track that will fit to make the third ladder. Anyone know what to use? I am off by about a half an inch.

3) I am working with an idea someone at the shop helped me with for my wye. The 2 switches on the mainline will replace the existing 2 straight tracks on the bottom of the main picture. I plan on using #6 turnouts. There will be a cross track from the turnouts and then curve back to a wye. Anyone ever done this? I think I may end up having to use Atlas track and cut them to length.

Finally, How many power drops do I need? I will be using DCC, eventually.

I doubt I will be laying down the track base anytime soon.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

You might consider flex track for those odd lengths.
The power loss is probably just a bad track connection. Try putting a jumper wire with alligator clips from a powered track to the dead rail and see if that fixes the problem then install a drop lead to your buss wire if it works.


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

D&J Railroad said:


> You might consider flex track for those odd lengths.
> The power loss is probably just a bad track connection. Try putting a jumper wire with alligator clips from a powered track to the dead rail and see if that fixes the problem then* install a drop lead to your buss wire if it works.*


Please explain


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

As D&J suggested get a 3 ft length of flex track. Cut
it to fit your problem area.

You say you will be DCC eventually. Does that mean
that you will begin your operations with DC?

Your answer to this question would determine the
number of track drops and also whether you would
need a 2nd power pack and a number of blocks.

The Wye would require a reverse loop controller if
DCC or a special one if DC.

Don


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

DonR said:


> As D&J suggested get a 3 ft length of flex track. Cut
> it to fit your problem area.
> 
> You say you will be DCC eventually. Does that mean
> ...


I will use the flex track. The Wye will be a really big problem area.

I have one engine, and one DC controller. Right now, I am jjust running it around the track. Eventually, I will have multiple engines and will need to control each of them. I have been told that DCC is better.

I know the wiring for my wye will be a whole bigger challenge. I am not concerning myself with it. ...yet


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

swimmer_spe said:


> Now for the challenges I still need to work out:
> 
> 1) The train can go straight, but once it gets halfway through the cross track when it is switched to the inner loop, the engine dies. I am guessing it is a power issue. Anyone know what I need to do?
> 
> ...


For #1 -- Are the turnouts power routing? It might just not be making good contact to transfer power.

For #2 -- You should be able to piece it together using the expandable track sections and a couple of short segments. I agree, though, that flex track will make things easier, even though you'll have to kludge the junction between the Unitrack and the flex.

For #3 -- Can you sketch what you're thinking here? I'm not following it.

As far as how many drops you NEED, the answer is 1. Will you get better performance with more than that? Yes, absolutely. I usually go with one every 6-8 feet, so 6-8 on a layout this size with two tracks.


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> For #1 -- Are the turnouts power routing? It might just not be making good contact to transfer power.
> 
> For #2 -- You should be able to piece it together using the expandable track sections and a couple of short segments. I agree, though, that flex track will make things easier, even though you'll have to kludge the junction between the Unitrack and the flex.
> 
> ...


#1 How do I check that?

#2 that is what I was afraid of 

#3 See picture. Basically still a wye, but takes up less space.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

There is a difference in the number and placement
of track drops for your layout if DCC. I would run
a buss from a central controller straight up, with
a connected buss that runs left and right. Then
connect track drops wherever the buss runs under
your track. That should provide a good even distribution
of your power. The Wye reverse 'loop' would be
powered by an automatic reverse loop controller.

But for a DC layout that runs more than one train you
would want insulated joiners between the various
main lines. Then you would need a track power
panel with switches to select from 2 or 3 DC power
packs. You would need to further isolate one leg
of the wye and power it through a couple of switches
or a special DC reverse loop controller. It could get
complicated. 

Which is why so many have switched to DCC...the wiring is
simple, there is little need for isolated blocks, you need
only the one DCC controller, you eliminate a complex
track power panel, and you can, on your layout, run 3 or
4 trains at the same time.

Adding a DCC decoder is not a complex problem
for most locos, cost just less than 20.00.

Don


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

The wye as you have drawn it is almost useless. It needs a tail at the bottom. The tail needs to be as long as the longest locomotive (or train) that you want to turn around.

Your design does reduce the width of the wye along the main line, but it increases the length of the wye (top to bottom), because each branch of the wye will need a longer inside curve (to go beyond vertical) then a short straight section (to avoid an S curve), then a curve in the opposite direction (to get back to vertical).


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

MtRR75 said:


> The wye as you have drawn it is almost useless. It needs a tail at the bottom. The tail needs to be as long as the longest locomotive (or train) that you want to turn around.
> 
> Your design does reduce the width of the wye along the main line, but it increases the length of the wye (top to bottom), because each branch of the wye will need a longer inside curve (to go beyond vertical) then a short straight section (to avoid an S curve), then a curve in the opposite direction (to get back to vertical).


The tail of the wye will end up being over 4 feet going across the entire layout. I just drew the wye itself.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with MtRR75 -- I don't think that the wye arrangement buys you anything except trading (in your picture) horizontal distance for vertical. Were it drawn to scale, I don't think it would take up any less space. The basic issue is still going to be the frog angle of the turnout at the apex of the wye.

As far as power routing turnouts, the manufacturer will usually say whether they are or not on the box. Generally, turnouts with insulated frogs are not power routing. Look and see if the frog is either non-conducting or insulated by small pieces of plastic.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Regarding your loss of power when loco crosses
through the crossover:

I don't see any wires going to the inner loop. Do you
have any power to it? The loco could be past the
point on the crossover where it can get power.

Set your multimeter to DC. Remove the loco.
Raise the power pack to run. 
Run the probes along the rails of the crossover
where the loco stops. Where do you lose voltage?

Another possibility. The loco could be shorting out
the track if you have the polarity of the two
tracks different.

You can test that with your multimeter. 
Put red probe on Right rail
of right track, black probe on the left rail. 
Is reading positive or negative?

Do exactly the same on the left track. Did you
get a positive or negative reading? If different
from the right track you have the polarity reversed
on ONE of them. Reverse the wires to ONE of
the tracks and the loco should
run through the crossover without stopping.

Don


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> I agree with MtRR75 -- I don't think that the wye arrangement buys you anything except trading (in your picture) horizontal distance for vertical. Were it drawn to scale, I don't think it would take up any less space. The basic issue is still going to be the frog angle of the turnout at the apex of the wye.
> 
> As far as power routing turnouts, the manufacturer will usually say whether they are or not on the box. Generally, turnouts with insulated frogs are not power routing. Look and see if the frog is either non-conducting or insulated by small pieces of plastic.


That is exactly why the wye is being laid out that way. I don't have more than 2 feet of horizontal distance fit the 2 switches. I have 8+ feet for the other part of the wye.



DonR said:


> Regarding your loss of power when loco crosses
> through the crossover:
> 
> I don't see any wires going to the inner loop. Do you
> ...


I do not have power going to the inner loop. I will pull out my multimeter and see whether I have power or not. I will also check that the correct polarity is on the correct.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

swimmer_spe said:


> That is exactly why the wye is being laid out that way. I don't have more than 2 feet of horizontal distance fit the 2 switches. I have 8+ feet for the other part of the wye.


What changed? There was plenty of room in the original plan.


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> What changed? There was plenty of room in the original plan.


I do not want to be limited with what rolling stock I can use. Using a #4 switch limits me. So, now it is back to the drawing board.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

swimmer_spe said:


> I do not want to be limited with what rolling stock I can use. Using a #4 switch limits me. So, now it is back to the drawing board.


Maybe not. Did you test it?


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Maybe not. Did you test it?


I did not. The hobby shop that sells the tracks and trains told me that if I want to run the longer cars like I plan, they may derail when trying to make the curve.

I trust that they are right. I plan to run the GO coaches. They are the longer cars.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Ah, so it's a general principles kind of thing. Best not to chance it. 

Still, I have a IHC 2-8-2 that is supposed to run on 18" curves (in HO) and barely works on 22", while my Bachmann Spectrum heavyweights that are supposed to need 22" work just fine on 18".


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## swimmer_spe (May 3, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Ah, so it's a general principles kind of thing. Best not to chance it.
> 
> Still, I have a IHC 2-8-2 that is supposed to run on 18" curves (in HO) and barely works on 22", while my Bachmann Spectrum heavyweights that are supposed to need 22" work just fine on 18".


Exactly.

Since I have the space, and since a crossover within a wye would look cool, I will do that.

Besides, did you always follow the first draft of your layout?


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