# Completely new to this, first question



## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

I am working on setting up the postwar Lionel set just handed down from my brother to my son. The set has been stored in an attic for years. Most everything in original boxes, but nevertheless needing lots of cleaning/lube/oil. All original manuals are still with the components.

So I've got the 2350 New Haven EP-5 Rectifier Diesel somewhat cleaned/lubed. When I set up a small oval of track and test ran the locomotive, there were sparks coming from the roller type thing ("Magnetraction"?) that rides on the center rail, and a strong ozone type smell. So I briefly cleaned track with the kind of sandpaper meant for metal until the rail tops were shiny, then wiped with Track Cleaner. Sparks seemed diminished and sometimes gone, but the ozone smell is still there. Is this from track that needs more cleaning, or do I maybe have a bigger problem?

I'm using a ZW transformer from the original set, which I sent off and had completely cleaned and restored before any use.

Many thanks for any help you might give, I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go, but I just don't want to run this like this if it is dangerous to the trains or to us!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

NP1092, welcome to the forum! Some sparking is normal, but that sandpaper has gotta go! Sparking is the result of the electrical connection being broken and re-established; the fine scratches that sandpaper makes in the rails contribute, in the long run, to the problem. Using it means you end up spending more and more time cleaning track, trying to get rid of the carbon deposits that result from the sparks. The ozone smell is a side-effect of the sparks.
First, your train's circuit is based around the concept of power in through the center rail and roller, and out to the ground through the outer two rails. That means you want the three rails, the center pick-up roller, and the metal drive wheels that ride on the outer rails to be squeaky-clean and as smooth as possible. 
My suggestion is to go to Walmart, get a bottle of GooGone from automotive, a Scotchbrite pad from hardware, and some isopropyl acohol from the pharmacy area, 90% concentration if they have it. GooGone will disolve the oil and grease deposits: spray it on your Scotchbrite and hit those rails again. Leave the sandpaper in the drawer, from now on. Then follow with a paper towel soaked in isopropyl; it will remove the Googone that's now saturated with dirt and disolved gunk. Going forward, I'd use this process only.

Now, look at the wheels and roller on that engine. If the roller is deeply grooved, it needs to be replaced: talk to our O gauge guys here on the site and let them walk you through it. If it's not, the idea is to use the same process to clean all your metal wheels and the roller. I like to use a dremel tool with a buffing pad to take all the burnt-on carbon and baked-on oil and grease off and leave only shiny metal: as Timboy (one of our members) suggests, the operative word is "burnish". Smooth, shiny metal on wheels and tracks means you never have your connection break. Every time it breaks from gunk or scratch, it creates a carbon deposit and you get an extra place to clean. Best wishes, and show us some pics!


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

Great! I have got GooGone, Scotchbrite, isoprop, paper towels and a Dremel already at home. I'll ditch the sandpaper and post some pictures after I work on this a little more over the w/e. Thank you so much Reckers.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

NP,

Very sound advice from Reckers, above. Glad to see you're following through.

Other things ...

If the train set has been sitting idle for some time, I'd higly recommend that you delve into cleaning the motor's brushes and armature face, if you haven't already done so. Sparking there (though hidden within the loco shell) could be a source of the ozone smell, too.

I assume you've taken the shell off of the loco? Any photos?

GooGone and Q-tips works great for cleaning brushes and armature faces. If you need some coaching on brush access, let us know. Good to know you have the manuals. Additionally, there's lots of info available online. Here's your 2350, for example:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2350.htm

General motor service:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=627

There are lots of opinions as to what type of lube to use. The big debate! Lithium-base grease? 3-in-1? Cons to both. A seasoned O-guy here on the forum (ServoGuy) has been touting 5W-20 motor oil, and I'm beginning to think there's good reason to follow his advice.

You'll next want to check out (and service) the reversing e-unit in the loco.

Ping us with questions as you go,

TJ


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

The set has with it a partial tube of lubricant that probably came with it 50+ years ago, I used that at the lubrication points per the manual. Was that bad to use old stuff? It also had another tube with a needle-pointed applicator, and I put 3-in-1 in it and used it for the points that were meant to be oiled.

I did take the shell off to do all this. I'll take some pics and post them.

I'll check the manual about that reversing e-unit, whatever the heck that means.

Thanks very much for taking the time to help me out. We'll see if we can't get this whipped into shape. I've got a 10 year old patiently waiting for some train time.


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

Ok, so I took the shell off the locomotive, and then took the brush plate off. I've cleaned some carbon off the armature and the brushes and a little carbon dust off the coils, cleaned out the slots and the brush wells. The new problem is that of the 3 wires that connect to the brush plate (one yellow, one green, one blue), the blue one is disconnected at its solder point. I don't think I did this when I took it apart, could it have been running with this broken? There is a bit of carbon on the insulation of the yellow wire, so I suspect there has indeed been sparking around the motor.

Now I guess I need to get that blue wire soldered back in place.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

NP,

Did you see your loco's wiring diagram in the first link of my Post #4, above? I'm not sure about wire color, but the diagram should help to make sure you get the wire back to the right place. I had a quick look at the diagram ... if your broken wire is one of the 3 that run from the e-unit to the motor itself, I don't think the motor would have run if one of these was broken.

Chances are that old Lionel lubricant has gotten pretty sticky in 50+ years. I'd shy away from it, big time. Try ServoGuy's 5W-20 motor oil tip.

Regards,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

np1092 said:


> The set has with it a partial tube of lubricant that probably came with it 50+ years ago, I used that at the lubrication points per the manual. Was that bad to use old stuff? It also had another tube with a needle-pointed applicator, and I put 3-in-1 in it and used it for the points that were meant to be oiled.
> 
> I did take the shell off to do all this. I'll take some pics and post them.
> 
> ...


I have seen some old half squeezed tubes of lube sell for over $25 bucks.
Go figure.hwell:


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

Sheesh. This is almost full, Lionel "Non Fluid Lubricant for Model Trains", circa 1958. Guess my brother didn't lubricate too much. :thumbsdown:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> I have seen some old half squeezed tubes of lube sell for over $25 bucks.
> Go figure.hwell:


 Wow!


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

I spent way too much of the weekend scrubbing and burnishing and soldering but I've got the locomotive up and running smoothly. None of the cars have been cleaned up yet--that's next--but my son was thrilled to drive the train. Soon we install the remote control track so the milk car will operate; that should keep him engaged for a while.

I did read about the reversing e-unit and plan on cleaning that too.

As before, thanks for your pointers, and I'll probably have more questions as I go. If I've done this right, I've attached a couple of pics in which I try to show the condition of some components after my work.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

np1092 said:


> I spent way too much of the weekend scrubbing and burnishing and soldering but I've got the locomotive up and running smoothly. None of the cars have been cleaned up yet--that's next--but my son was thrilled to drive the train. Soon we install the remote control track so the milk car will operate; that should keep him engaged for a while.
> 
> I did read about the reversing e-unit and plan on cleaning that too.
> 
> As before, thanks for your pointers, and I'll probably have more questions as I go. If I've done this right, I've attached a couple of pics in which I try to show the condition of some components after my work.



Nice set:thumbsup:............How much you asking?
Without the track. I got that.

Is that a set? Or were they bought separate?

You need a caboose.


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

They were my brother's when he was a kid, 1950's-60's. Our mom passed away 2 years ago and we've cleaned out her house; these had been in the attic all that time. My brother (in NJ, by the way) wanted to keep them in the family so passed them on to my 10 year old son recently. Ironically, brother dear is a mechanical engineer, so you'd think he'd have these things in top shape before sending them along, but nooooo. He's too busy as a ham radio guy, no time for trains. So he let's his sister (me) fix them up! I can see I'm not getting much else done anytime soon.

We have a caboose, but my brother warned me it had been smoking the last time he used it, so I didn't want to run it yet.

Happy holidays, everyone.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

np1092 said:


> They were my brother's when he was a kid, 1950's-60's. Our mom passed away 2 years ago and we've cleaned out her house; these had been in the attic all that time. My brother (in NJ, by the way) wanted to keep them in the family so passed them on to my 10 year old son recently. Ironically, brother dear is a mechanical engineer, so you'd think he'd have these things in top shape before sending them along, but nooooo. He's too busy as a ham radio guy, no time for trains. So he let's his sister (me) fix them up! I can see I'm not getting much else done anytime soon.
> 
> We have a caboose, but my brother warned me it had been smoking the last time he used it, so I didn't want to run it yet.
> 
> Happy holidays, everyone.



Do you know what the engines worth?

Take a picture of the nose, can you tell if its a decal or painted on N?

Yours looks in good shape.
An orange N on the nose in x shape is worth over $1500.
You don't have that one.
The auto loader,sub car,milk car,and box are worth some bucks too.:thumbsup:













Do you have the caboose?
Do you know if this came as a set?
Do you have the original boxes along with the master box?


Don't ever let someone "steal" them from you at a poor price.


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

Big Ed, the engine is the more typical one, from what I've read, with decals on each end, "N" and "H" both white on orange ground on the decals, door jambs black, etc etc. I believe my parents bought these as individual pieces for my brother, not as a set. Yes, I have most original boxes and manuals, but since it wasn't a set, no master box. My mother never threw anything out.  And yes we have the caboose. Here it is!


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, all the small boxes _are in a Lionel carton, about 15 x 18 x 7 inches so maybe that is a master box._


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

np1092 said:


> Well, all the small boxes _are in a Lionel carton, about 15 x 18 x 7 inches so maybe that is a master box._


_

It might have been a set then.

PUT THE CABOOSE ON!

Look on the master box there should be a #.


In x shape yours is around $400 not bad.
Not to mention the rest of the cars._


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What exactly was smoking?

Check the ZW power cord if it is brittle or frayed get it replaced with a good power cord.
If you know how you can p/u one from home depot or whatever and do it your self.

Was the caboose smoking?

Nice set it just needs a little fine tuning as it sat for a long time.:thumbsup:

Thats all from me, off to ZZZzz land now.

Edit, I didn't see that you had the transformer redone.

goodnight now.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Somebody was smoking in the caboose?!? 

I guess that must be a lighted caboose, with a power pickup, huh? Should be simple circuit to check for possible short.

Nice work getting this all running, NP ... hope the kid has a blast with the trains. Hope your brother gets all jealous like when he sees them running 'round the room!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

That old lube should be just fine to use, and you're welcome. Glad to have you join us!


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

OK--update! The set is running well, all around the Christmas tree, our son is having fun. Of course, there are still a few problems. The whistle in the diesel does not work; I've read the manual which does not talk about servicing it, and I've poked around on this forum for whistle-related threads, looked at the whistle unit and can't see anything that looks wrong. I'll admit I am afraid to take it apart. There's a new battery in there. I'm trying to activate the whistle by the control on the ZW--nothing. What do you think I should do first? Electrical stuff baffles me.

The lighted caboose is running, no smoke seen (you may remember I had been warned by my brother it had been smokin'), but the bulb in there flickers. Charlie (my son) likes it cuz he says it makes it look like there's a fire in there, but I worry that one of these days he may be right! It never smells or feels hot even after we've run it for several minutes. Think I'm ok w/ this?

This weekend I try to get the RC track section installed (I just got a new controller w/ new wires) and we hope for a visit from the milkman. All 7 milk cans still with the car after all these years. Charlie will make short work of that--I give him a month and I won't be able to find half of them. hwell:

The 022 switch is a whole 'nother story, the locomotive derails every time we try to get it to turn left. I've read servoguy's thread about these units, but that rehab, if it happens, is going to have to be a post-Christmas effort. So for now we just go happily 'round the tree.

Anyway, it's been a fun ride so far.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Lots of whistle tech info here:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd2k.htm

and here:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=708

TJ


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks TJ. My computer at work is not allowing me to view the full size image for some reason so I will check it out at home.


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## np1092 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yikes. If I can do this, I'm quitting my day job.


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