# AF 300 AC



## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

Probably a dumb question but what is the difference between an AF 300 and an AF 300 AC ? Is it that the 300 AC only runs on AC and you can't use a transformer?? :dunno: Not being an electrician that makes no sense to me....How do you run a train on AC ???? Dumbfoundedly Yours, John


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

All Gilbert Atlantic style (4-4-2 wheel arrangement) run on 0 to 17V AC. They will also run on 0 to 17V DC since they have series universal motors. No significant differences between the 300 and the 300AC. The Gilbert engines that were made with permanent magnet fields and run on DC only are just certain versions of the 0-8-0 and 4-8-4 engines. Most of these do not have DC after the number. Some such as the 332 were produced with both type of motor.


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

AmFlyer said:


> All Gilbert Atlantic style (4-4-2 wheel arrangement) run on 0 to 17V AC. They will also run on 0 to 17V DC since they have series universal motors. No significant differences between the 300 and the 300AC. The Gilbert engines that were made with permanent magnet fields and run on DC only are just certain versions of the 0-8-0 and 4-8-4 engines. Most of these do not have DC after the number. Some such as the 332 were produced with both type of motor.


Thank You, very interesting.....I did not know any of that....I was wondering for a long time and just thought I would ask....:thumbsup:


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Ask away! Postwar AF can be a lot different than postwar Lionel.


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

AmFlyer said:


> Ask away! Postwar AF can be a lot different than postwar Lionel.


On the same lines....Can anyone show or tell me how the tender for the 300 should be wired to the loco? When I connect a transformer lead from base and 7-15v post directly to the cab, the loco runs fine....Then, when I attach the tender leads to the cab it does NOT....Looks like the tender wires go from both wheelsets to the base and 7-15v connections on the cab...Is one of these tender leads not grounded or what? thanks


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Make sure the brass or metal wheels are clean and on opposite sides of the tender trucks, front truck both wheels on one side and rear truck both wheels are on opposite side. If that is okay check continuity from the front truck wheels to the end of one wire male plug and the same for rear truck to the other wire plug. If no continuity at one truck then make sure the brass strips that rub the axles on the tender trucks are clean and snug against the axles. If all that checks then remove the tender body by gently twisting the locking tabs that come thru the tender chassis and look for a broken wire or bad solder connection on the rivets that hold the trucks on the chassis. Usually its a simple fix but if all of that is good the tender could be shorting at the truck rivets or the drawbar. Hope these suggestions will find the problem.


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

cramden said:


> Make sure the brass or metal wheels are clean and on opposite sides of the tender trucks, front truck both wheels on one side and rear truck both wheels are on opposite side. If that is okay check continuity from the front truck wheels to the end of one wire male plug and the same for rear truck to the other wire plug. If no continuity at one truck then make sure the brass strips that rub the axles on the tender trucks are clean and snug against the axles. If all that checks then remove the tender body by gently twisting the locking tabs that come thru the tender chassis and look for a broken wire or bad solder connection on the rivets that hold the trucks on the chassis. Usually its a simple fix but if all of that is good the tender could be shorting at the truck rivets or the drawbar. Hope these suggestions will find the problem.


Thanks Cramden….I will check the continuity as you suggested....The wheels are where they should be and the brass strips are clean and snug against the axles, that was done already.....I'll let you know what I find.....John


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

There are wiring diagrams and assembly diagrams on reference sites. The Port Lines site has the wiring diagrams for both an engine mounted reverse unit style and a tender mounted reverse unit. It sounds like you have 2 wires from the tender to the engine so it then would have an engine mounted reverse unit with a lock lever protruding through a slot in the top of the boiler.
The site myflyertrains.org has the factory service manual which shows all the blowup detail for mounting and insulator locations. It also has wiring diagrams.


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

AmFlyer said:


> There are wiring diagrams and assembly diagrams on reference sites. The Port Lines site has the wiring diagrams for both an engine mounted reverse unit style and a tender mounted reverse unit. It sounds like you have 2 wires from the tender to the engine so it then would have an engine mounted reverse unit with a lock lever protruding through a slot in the top of the boiler.
> The site myflyertrains.org has the factory service manual which shows all the blowup detail for mounting and insulator locations. It also has wiring diagrams.


Thanks for the info Am.....You are correct, the reverse unit is engine mounted and there are two wires from the tender to the engine that are attached to the rivets on each wheelset.....John:smokin:


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

Well, here is the latest....One of the wires going from the rear wheelset to the cab was broken...I replaced it and it ran fine...However, then I placed it on the track and it ran around fine till it stopped again !!!!Now it only hums and the commutator does not turn....Took it apart again and cleaned the commutator again and the brushes....In the process I lost one of the brush springs…..I am really getting to the "what next" point....Just wanted to update you all...Need parts from RFG now.....

John


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Sounds like another wire broke. Good luck. You will find the problem.


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

mopac said:


> Sounds like another wire broke. Good luck. You will find the problem.


Hi Mopac, thanks for the reply....I found the missing spring at least....Taking it apart again, cleaned commutator and brushes again....Still not running...I bypass the tender when applying power...Is it possible that brushes too worn or their springs not holding them against the commutator enough? When I turn the commutator manually, the loco drive wheels turn ok....Can a bad reverse unit cause this just to hum and not run? When power interrupted the arm on the unit does not cycle properly....I did not find any broken wires....Thanks all.....John :appl:


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## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

hcopter51 said:


> Well, here is the latest....One of the wires going from the rear wheelset to the cab was broken...I replaced it and it ran fine...However, then I placed it on the track and it ran around fine till it stopped again !!!!Now it only hums and the commutator does not turn....Took it apart again and cleaned the commutator again and the brushes....In the process I lost one of the brush springs…..I am really getting to the "what next" point....Just wanted to update you all...Need parts from RFG now.....
> 
> John


Welcome to the lost part club. 

It never fails to amaze me how far those parts will go when they pop off the workbench. For me, they invariably fall underneath the bench. I always keep a broom and dust pan handy to check below the bench. Also, whenever I sweep the floor, I go through the contents of the dust pan thoroughly before I dump the contents into the trash.

Al


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If the reverse unit is now locked in neutral that will cause the hum with no movement.
It is also possible one or more of the 4 copper fingers in the reverse unit are worn and not making proper contact with the drum.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Between you and me and the rest of the world, RFG prices are way too expensive. I haven't bought from them in years. My first stop to buy parts is Jeff Kane at the Train Tender, in Bloomfield, NY.. My second stop would be PortLines, the owner being Doug Peck... As far as springs go, I buy them in bulk as well as the brushes from Jeff Kane..Whenever I work on a e-unit, I always bend the fingers before installing.


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

flyernut said:


> Between you and me and the rest of the world, RFG prices are way too expensive. I haven't bought from them in years. My first stop to buy parts is Jeff Kane at the Train Tender, in Bloomfield, NY.. My second stop would be PortLines, the owner being Doug Peck... As far as springs go, I buy them in bulk as well as the brushes from Jeff Kane..Whenever I work on a e-unit, I always bend the fingers before installing.


Thanks guys, I found the spring....It was tangled up with the other one, Ha....Looks like where one wire enters at the side of the coil that sits behind the commutator has broken....I am starting to believe that it would be cheaper to get another 300 and just use mine for learning and parts....Thanks to all.....:appl:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Are you talking about the field coil? The one the armature goes through? If so you can unwind the coil and rewind it. I had a broken coil wire on my 282. Of coarse it was the wire that went to bottom of coil. If that is the one you will have to unwind all the wire.
Fix the end that is broken and rewind it. You will not be able to rewind it as neatly as AF did. I ended up having to cut at least 10 feet of the wire. I had put all of it back on but coil was too thick and did not let armature spin. You just unwind enough wire to let
armature to spin freely. Even with all the wire cut off my motor runs great. I am not sure that is the wire that is broke on yours.

For some reason that coil wire break is pretty common. You can fix it.


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## hcopter51 (Aug 29, 2018)

Hi mopac….Yes, that's the one....So that's what that is eh? Ha ! Now I know something else....this is one of the two on top of the coil....I do not have the patience to wind a coil...It seems that when I put the housing back on with the two long screws it binds the armature....I think I will just do as I said earlier, get another and just use this one for parts and as a learning experience as I have learned a lot already....Is it possible I have the commutator installed wrong too? Thanks


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