# Electrical field testing



## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Flyernut,

Checked the wiring in the 302, followed the diagram, looks OK. The only thing is the field, it has not been rewound to my knowledge. Is there a way to test the field?
IT was running forward and reverse, then just reverse, it was slowly binding up, now she won't run at all (engine only) tender appears to be working. Any ideas?

ameri/flyer


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Speaking from a Lionel perspective (dohhh!) ...

A problem with the field alone wouldn't be a cause for the loco to run in one direction, only. The field generates its magnetism in both forward and reverse directions.

You can check for electrical continuity through the field by simply putting a ohm-meter (multi-meter) to its two wire endpoints, with all other electrical wire paths disconnected. I.e., you should see a finite electrical resistance through the field wires.

Hope that helps a bit.

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Tj is correct. The reading for Flyer fields should be something like 1.5 - 2.0 ohms. Actually the same reading should be found checking between the 3 plates on the armatures as well.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I've gone over wiring diagrams more than once with my engines and later found I had wired it incorrectly anyway. Be sure to double, even triple check your wiring. Inspect the fingers for good contact against the rotating drum. If needed, use a toothpick to push each finger against it with power applied. Should it suddenly come to life, you've found your problem.

Here's another test...check to see if the motor runs both ways by direct connecting to the jack plate from the transformer with the diagram below. If it runs both ways, you surely have a problem in the tender or the wire harness to the jack plug. Use a jumper wire between the two points indicated and apply the power to the other two. Try it for forward and rewire to try it for reverse. If that works, the motor is good.

View attachment Direct Connection Steam Locomotive Wiring.pdf


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks TJ, I will give it a try.

John


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks Don, I just need patience. 

John


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Actually, looked up the resistance rating -- it should be anywhere between 1.0-2.0 both the field and the armature. Just FYI to store away in memory.


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks, Don


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Nuttin but flyer says it all..:appl:


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

We all have to share ideas, I think it has been one way so far, me asking you for ideas

John


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

amer/flyer said:


> We all have to share ideas, I think it has been one way so far, me asking you for ideas
> 
> John


Never fear, for we are here!! I may take a little longer to get back with responses, but I'm lurking.. I had a 65' maple tree cut down several weeks ago, and being 100% disabled, it takes quite a bit of time to get things done.


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Understand


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

flyernut,

Got a problem, all wires show current going through them, but the 2 black ones between the field and the brushes show nothing, any ideas?

ameri/flyer


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

amer/flyer said:


> flyernut,
> 
> Got a problem, all wires show current going through them, but the 2 black ones between the field and the brushes show nothing, any ideas?
> 
> ameri/flyer


Where are you testing them from??


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Not trying to be a smart ***, but saying black wires doesn't help identfy which wires you are testing. A drawing or better expalnation will be needed to zero in on the issue. Didn't you buy a multi meter? Are you using it here or are you using a test light like Flyernut suggested?

Once these questions are answered, then we can move one step at a time.

If the Flyernut steps in he may understand better what is going on here.


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

flyernut,

I am using a multi-meter, putting one point on one side of the wire and the other one on the other. Then one point on a hot wire and on one side of the field.

ameri/flyer


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

amer/flyer said:


> flyernut,
> 
> I am using a multi-meter, putting one point on one side of the wire and the other one on the other. Then one point on a hot wire and on one side of the field.
> 
> ameri/flyer


I also have a multimeter, but rarely use it.. I use a test light I made up. It's easier for me to use as I'm an old fart, and like things simple. I would connect the wires to your power source, using the test light in between, and see if that works. I have rarely seen a field go bad.


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

flyernut,

I have one too, I agree it is simpler, I will do that, thanks for the information.

John


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Have you tried to test run the motor by direct connecting the transformer leads to the jack plate as shown in that diagram I furnished a few postings back? If not, try that first. There are two diagrams on that drawing - one for test running the motor forward and another for test running in reverse. If the motor runs in both directions, then we know the problem is somewhere in the tender. When you first posted this issue, you stated it was running fine both ways, then only reverse but you fidn't suspect any issue in the tender. Until you test run the motor with direct connection, I wouldn't mess with anything in the tender.


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

*addition*

Don,

I think I found some incorrect wiring according to the diagram, the 2 black wires coming from the field appear to be incorrect. As you look at the back on the left is in the 3rd position and should be in the 4th, the wire on the right should be in the 2nd position instead of the 1st on the right. 

I am going to switch them to where they should go, then test run them. You use 3 wires correct 1 for the jumper and 2 from the transformer 1 each?
P.S. I tried to jump but had no luck.:dunno:

I John


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Don,

I had a senior moment and forgot to mention that your diagram helped I had to move 1 of the green ones to the brushes so that there are 2 wires going to each brush, before there were only 3, 2 on 1 brush and 1 on the other.


Thanks 
John


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I'd be careful what you change -- you did say it was running before it stopped and only went in reverse, right? If it was running, then the wiring was OK.

When you mention wire colors I still cannot be sure which ones you are referring to as most original wiring harnesses use black wires...at least on the earlier steamers. And any re-wiring I do on my steamers is done with cloth covered 24 ga wires that are black and gray. So again I cannot distinguish the colors per your descriptions. If you are referring to the colored wiring diagram and using those colors to describe the situation, then maybe I can ascertain what you are telling me.

I am currently working on a 303 that was running but needs cleaning and lube. I am not changing or re-wiring the harness as it works fine. It currently has two wires to one brush and only one to the other. The general steamer 4-wire diagram I sent clearly shows two wires to each brush. Maybe all 4-wire set-ups are not alike? The diagram I previously sent is for any general 4-wire steamer. If yours has a specific purpose, maybe I can find a diagram for that engine only and send it?

As far as direct connecting, you use a jumper wire between the 2 terminals as indicated and the leads from the transformer go to the other 2 connections. It does not matter which transformer lead goes where because the transformer power is AC current.

Here is another 4-wire diagram I found in Tom Barker's book...maybe it is different than the other and might work, or better yet, match what you have. Unfortunately it does not show the connections to the jack panel plug, it only shows where each wire eventually leads to -- brush, field , etc. You'll have to imagine a jackplug/panel in between these leads to match what you actually see in front of you.

I'll try to find an exact wiring diagram for a 302 steamer and post it for you, complete with the jackplug/plate to make it as easy to follow as possible.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Sorry -- forgot to add the daigram

View attachment 4-wire steamer diagram-toms book.pdf


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Use the figure at the top of the page, the middle one is for 2-step reverse units and the bottom shows current flow when in the forward operating mode.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Here are the wire diagrams from Port Lines website, perhaps they differ from what I originally posted...

http://www.portlines.com/portlinesclinic10.htm


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks for the reply, Don, I will go back to 2 wires to 1 brush and 1 to the other(original). Sorry about the mix up I did not explain myself very well. The 2 black wires I was talking about are the ones from the field in the loco. had to re-wire had a loose wire and used your diagram to help me find out were it went in the tender, also put in new fingers, I am using the original cloth wire, that proves to be the best. As always, thanks.


John


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Don,

Used the wiring diagrams for direct connect from transformer and the loco runs in reverse right now did not reverse the wiring for forward yet. At least I now the loco runs.

John


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

It's been decades since the last time I had my hands on an S Flyer loco. But in all these
posts I don't see anyone mentioning the reverse unit, I supposed it's called
an E unit by AF as it is by Marx and Lionel. The contacts in these devices
need loving care from time to time. Is it ratcheting as power goes on and
off? Check the voltage from it's terminals as you switch power on and off.

Don


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

There are those who might crucify you for using "e-unit" when referring to an American Flyer reverse unit. So I stay away from that term, even though it's much easier to say.

We have been discussing the issues with this posting and the reverse unit in question. The fact that he posted above the engine runs when direct connected, proves that the issue lies within the wiring or reverse unit in the tender. He is sorting through this right now to discver the exact issue. New fingers were or are being installed. Once he confirms the wiring, we'll go from there.


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

DonR,

I have checked the current, which, I guess tells you how much current is going through the wires. Have not checked the voltage.

John


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

*spelling*

Don,

The steamer runs strong, but only in reverse, she is still direct connected. I think that there may be two wires in question, the 2 wires from the field, according to the diagram they should be in different spots. Looking from the back, the wire from the field should be on the end, or last spot. Looking from the back the wire from the field should be in the 2nd spot not the 1st, on the jack plate. so the wiring in the steamer may be incorrect. She did not run that well in the begining, forward and reverse.

John


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## amer/flyer (Jan 11, 2014)

Don,

Thanks for the diagram from yesterday 5/14.


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