# Ed's Steam Save/LIONEL #2065......



## Big Ed

LIONEL #2065......



















This has been in another thread. 
T Man...remember?

I knew the T man would have want to get his hands on this.
So I thought long and hard about donating this to him.

I figured I would see it ran first, so I put it on the rails and gave it power.
After a gentle push it lit up like the 4th of July. 
Sparks, weird noises, and smoke from the smoke stack. Then it started smoking somewhere else. I turned off the Z.

But it had life in it.:thumbsup:
And it seems that all the parts are there and it was never taken apart.:thumbsup:

So I got to investigate a little further.
Something tells me I am going to keep it.

Here it is along with my other #2065 that I got here off a member.


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## Big Ed

I took the shell off and quickly cleaned the brushes, rollers and wheels.

It moves!


Though not fast...it is making bad squeaking sounds.

Needs some lube. Liquid Lube.

And a good cleaning. 

Hey you can't beat the price.:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed

What do you think? It has that weathered look?


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## Big Ed

Just needs a little TLC.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Needs some serious cleaning and lube, not to mention knocking all the rust off.


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## Stillakid

Nice, ed!
last pic seems to show some missing parts(spacer-eccentric crank) and some bent pieces. Could the noise be coming from there? Should be an easy fix!


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Needs some serious cleaning and lube, not to mention knocking all the rust off.



It is better then it looks. 
I found the macro setting on my old camera.

I thought all along I was switching on macro but wasn't.


It will clean up nice.

I cleaned the gears and added a little oil.
I also found a small sliver of metal stuck in one roller that was shorting out on the track.

It runs like a rocket now hugs the rail better then the other one I have and that is with the shell off!:thumbsup:

Now I have to dismantle it further and give it a good going over.

The only thing I am missing is one railing. 
Though I think I have that somewhere.



What do you think Alien green? Glow in the dark?:thumbsup:

Weather it up a little more?

Fire engine red?

CNJ Blue and yellow?


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> Nice, ed!
> last pic seems to show some missing parts(spacer-eccentric crank) and some bent pieces. Could the noise be coming from there? Should be an easy fix!



Is there supposed to be a spacer there?
The manual doesn't list one. 
Just a spacer in the center wheel in the side rod.

One arm is bent a hair.


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> What do you think Alien green? Glow in the dark?:thumbsup:


That would be my vote. We could run it together with my Phantom setup, they'll be sure the Martians have landed.


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## tjcruiser

Hey Ed,

Fun posts! Nice old locos. I'm very glad to hear you've found signs of life. What's all of the white speckled stuff on that one shell? Paint? Corrosion? Snow?!?

Clue me in ...

Cheers,

TJ


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## santafe158

big ed said:


> Is there supposed to be a spacer there?
> The manual doesn't list one.
> Just a spacer in the center wheel in the side rod.
> 
> One arm is bent a hair.


I have 2 2055's (same locomotive with a different boiler front) and neither have spacers, though I did add some small washers to one locomotive to keep the eccentric cranks held out rather than wobbling all over.


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## T-Man

It shouldn't take much to clean it. 
With corrosion on the shell you have to paint.

It's still a nice looking engine.:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Fun posts! Nice old locos. I'm very glad to hear you've found signs of life. What's all of the white speckled stuff on that one shell? Paint? Corrosion? Snow?!?
> 
> Clue me in ...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ



It looks like it was splattered with green spray paint.



santafe158 said:


> I have 2 2055's (same locomotive with a different boiler front) and neither have spacers, though I did add some small washers to one locomotive to keep the eccentric cranks held out rather than wobbling all over.



I might try that they do move around a bit.



T-Man said:


> It shouldn't take much to clean it.
> With corrosion on the shell you have to paint.
> 
> It's still a nice looking engine.:thumbsup:



Yes T and it is all there, complete. Except the bent rod nothing else is damaged. 
The inside looks like it was never even looked at. Or cleaned, the squeal was the gear that comes off the armature. It had the dreaded servoguy's hardened grease cemented to it. A little cleaning and some oil it is running great.
The corrosion you do see was done as it sat in the trash waiting to be rescued I guess.

The pickup rollers spark a lot though, one has a small groove in it.
I have to try and clean them more or maybe replace them all together.


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> Nice, ed!
> last pic seems to show some missing parts(spacer-eccentric crank) and some bent pieces. Could the noise be coming from there? Should be an easy fix!



Hey Kid........yes you were right. I am missing, though I found in the engine, the spacer for the eccentric crank.

But,

I thought I was missing something else, I am missing the cross head rod and the cross head too.

I don't know why didn't see that till now?

How did you miss that.......I guess all that looked at the picture missed it too?


Check out the picture,


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## tjcruiser

Now that you pointed it out, I can see the missing pieces while comparing the two pics in post #4. Your missing two rods ... the flat "dogbone" one that goes from the middle drive wheel to the sliding crosshead part (which is missing), and the round bar that goes from there further forward.

A call to Jeff Kane, maybe???

TJ


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## Big Ed

I found another rod and cross head in my parts but it is just a bit too small. it is too short the pin doesn't make it to the frame.
It must be off another engine I need one that screws the rod to the cross head, this one in the picture is pinned.

Manual shows a left and right rod, two different rods.
I still have a few more parts boxes to go through.


Almost but no cigar.

A little cleaner anyway,


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Now that you pointed it out, I can see the missing pieces while comparing the two pics in post #4. Your missing two rods ... the flat "dogbone" one that goes from the middle drive wheel to the sliding crosshead part (which is missing), and the round bar that goes from there further forward.
> 
> A call to Jeff Kane, maybe???
> 
> TJ



I am going to search in my stuff I just might have one.

If not I will epoxy a length on the end so the cross head makes it to the frame. 

If all else fails call Jeff, but first I have to sit down and see what else I can use off his site.:thumbsup:

I must add that it is running like a rocket.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

big ed said:


> Manual shows a left and right rod, two different rods.


I'm not sure about this loco, but on others, I've learned that the difference between left and right drive rods is the position of a little bump-out near the end that supposed to simulate an oil journal box, I think.

Ed, your clean-up work is coming along very nicely!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> I'm not sure about this loco, but on others, I've learned that the difference between left and right drive rods is the position of a little bump-out near the end that supposed to simulate an oil journal box, I think.
> 
> Ed, your clean-up work is coming along very nicely!
> 
> TJ



I got home kind of late. Started 300 am and got home 530. 
I had to cut the grass so I could see the street.
As it is supposed to rain this week end and some of next week. I had to get it tonight!:thumbsdown:



I fooled around with the engine for about an hour.
Most of the rust was just surface rust and is coming off nice.


I am thinking maybe painting some white walls on, what do you think?

Make it look like a Lionel Flyer.....maybe I will decal it that.

LIONEL FLYER LINES

( I hope this helped the O modelers):smilie_daumenpos:


Off to ZzZZZzzzz land for me now.


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## servoguy

Ed, The white spots on the loco are probably corrosion from the smoke pellets. I believe they are amonium nitrate which is very corrosive. I have seen this on other locos but never as bad as the one you have.
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn

Motor looks good, you need a serious strip and paint for the shell!


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## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> Ed, The white spots on the loco are probably corrosion from the smoke pellets. I believe they are amonium nitrate which is very corrosive. I have seen this on other locos but never as bad as the one you have.
> BB


This engine does blow out some smoke!:thumbsup:


Ammonium Nitrate! You mean it might blow up! 

This was sitting in the dump pile for who knows how long. It is more like a green can of spray paint went off by it. 

Look it comes off easily, took a few seconds with a fine wire wheel brush on the dremal.

If it was from Ammonium Nitrate wouldn't it leave pit marks?


















gunrunnerjohn said:


> Motor looks good, you need a serious strip and paint for the shell!


That was only one side real quick, I didn't start the other side.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Still looks like the shell is going to need paint.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Still looks like the shell is going to need paint.


Definitely, yes.


A nice glow in the dark Alien green would be nice.:thumbsup:

I just can't bring my self to do it.:laugh:

I am undecided what flavor to color it.

What do you think? Corrosion like servoguy says, wouldn't that leave pit marks?
They look more green then white, the rest is years of dust.

I will clean it up a little more later. 
I cut the grass now it can rain and give me an excuse to go down to the dungeon. 
I won't feel so guilty then.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'd do it cherry red, always wanted a locomotive that color.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd do it cherry red, always wanted a locomotive that color.


I do like cherries!

Black cherry red?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, deep red, great color for it.


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## Big Ed

I cleaned the shell up a little.
I have to pickup another fine stainless steel wire brush to finish it.

Man, macro picks up all I missed.


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## Big Ed

one thing the Macro setting is good for is seeing what I missed.

Oh well it is getting better little by little.

But to tell you the truth the only thing you see when the shell is on is the wheels and running rods.

But like TJ is probably thinking....I KNOW IT'S THERE.:laugh:

It did not rain out yet! I know if I didn't cut the grass last night it would have!


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think I'd be considering a bath in paint remover of some kind for the shell, that might take a lot of the work out of getting all that stuff off. In addition, you don't want to be whacking too much at some of the fine diecast detail with a wire brush, it may round a bunch of stuff off.


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## servoguy

Ed, the spacer should be between the side rod and the main rod.


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

Those wheels and drive gear cleaned up beautifully. Nice work.

Glad to see that the shell "speckles" were just surface gunk ... not corrosion pits.

Can you tell me if that aft dome is a separate metal fitting? The rust on that looks different, making me wonder if it's not part of the main shell casting. Just curious.

TJ


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I think I'd be considering a bath in paint remover of some kind for the shell, that might take a lot of the work out of getting all that stuff off. In addition, you don't want to be whacking too much at some of the fine diecast detail with a wire brush, it may round a bunch of stuff off.


Yes I am going to use a stripper. the wire brush is almost like a polishing brush very fine stainless steel doesn't harm the metal. I wet sand papered it in spots.




servoguy said:


> Ed, the spacer should be between the side rod and the main rod.


Yes that is shown in the manual. I did not see it before. 
Took me a while to notice the cross head and rod missing.
But I don't feel bad as no one else noticed it missing.



tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> Those wheels and drive gear cleaned up beautifully. Nice work.
> 
> Glad to see that the shell "speckles" were just surface gunk ... not corrosion pits.
> 
> Can you tell me if that aft dome is a separate metal fitting? The rust on that looks different, making me wonder if it's not part of the main shell casting. Just curious.
> 
> TJ



The macro still shows some rust on the wheels and frame.

So you think if it was corrosion it would have pitted the body?

I think some might have been from the smoke pellets but the majority was from a can of green spray paint that went off as it was sitting in the dump pile.

I will look at that piece on top closer later, at first it looked like it might be copper. But it is rusted,I am sure is not cast.


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## servoguy

I am surprised you didn't notice the missing main rod and crosshead. Most steamers won't run very will with a missing main rod. They have trouble starting.


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> Those wheels and drive gear cleaned up beautifully. Nice work.
> 
> Glad to see that the shell "speckles" were just surface gunk ... not corrosion pits.
> 
> Can you tell me if that aft dome is a separate metal fitting? The rust on that looks different, making me wonder if it's not part of the main shell casting. Just curious.
> 
> TJ


TJ I forgot to tell you that that piece is separate, you can pop it out and replace it. I wonder why it was not just cast?



servoguy said:


> I am surprised you didn't notice the missing main rod and crosshead. Most steamers won't run very will with a missing main rod. They have trouble starting.



My steamers run with no rods at all.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Ed ... that is curious that the dome would have been separate and not integral with the shell casting. If you ever figure out why, let us know!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Oven cleaner worked good?

It did not take off any black at all??hwell:
Maybe because I used lemon scented?

I guess I will need a paint stripper, I will make up a custom chemical concoction tomorrow at work.

It did make it a little cleaner.


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## T-Man

How long did it set Ed?

My shell sat overnight in a bag with the enclosed fumes.
I don't remove all of it but most of it.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> How long did it set Ed?
> 
> My shell sat overnight in a bag with the enclosed fumes.
> I don't remove all of it but most of it.



It sat for only around 4 hrs.
I did not put it in a bag.

My fumes were lemon scented as that is what I had under the sink.

I might just do a little wet sanding and then paint it.

The new paint should cover it and one thing for sure the paint that is on there now, is ON. 

It shouldn't make the new paint peel off.


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## tjcruiser

I go for the Heavy Duty Easy Off. Typically two "bubble baths", followed by Dremel stainless brush cleanup.

I'd give the Dremel a shot, Ed ... especially on the rear metal dome.

T-Man ... what type of BAG are you using that doesn't get eaten through with the Easy Off???

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> I go for the Heavy Duty Easy Off. Typically two "bubble baths", followed by Dremel stainless brush cleanup.
> 
> I'd give the Dremel a shot, Ed ... especially on the rear metal dome.
> 
> T-Man ... what type of BAG are you using that doesn't get eaten through with the Easy Off???
> 
> TJ


That metal dome doesn't look rusty in real life.
When using the macro setting, like magic it comes out rusty?

I think as long as the paint that is remaining in on good, a coat of primer then paint should be fine.
What do you think?

TJ did you ever strip cast yet? All of your stripping was done to prewar metal stuff,right?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Solid paint shouldn't be an issue, unless it's thick enough to create an uneven surface. That presumes it's REALLY secure and there's no possibility of flaking.


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## T-Man

I used a regular food bag. Nothing special. I used the dollar store oven cleaner.


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

I agree ... as long as the existing paint is bonded well, with no flakes, hard-edge chips, etc., I think a coat of primer should seal and protect things just fine. After I prime, I do a rub-down with a grey (mild) ScotchBrite pad ... I find that it does a nice job of getting into any nooks and crannies, and smooths out the primer nicely in prep for topcoat paint.

I've stripped and repainted both tinplate (sheet metal) trains, as well as metal cast trains ... all prewar. The recent 1688 redo was a metal cast shell. I think I mentioned that most of the old paint came off OK with Easy Off and the Dremel, except ... there was one section in the back where the original paint was incredibly bonded to the shell ... almost like it was integral with the metal, rather than just a layer on top. Odd. I buffed it smooth (ScotchBrite), primed it, painted it, and it looks just fine. You'd never know it was there.

Good luck, Ed ... I think that old train is gonna clean up / repaint just fine.

Ohh ... one other comment .. I mentioned this in the 1688 thread, too ...

On the 1688, I did NOT want a gloss black finish, so I chose the Krylon Satin Black. To my surprise, the satin is nearly as shiny as the Krylon Gloss. It's very hard to distinguish any difference between the two. If I were to do it over again, I'd try the Krylon Flat. It's a matter of personal preference, of course ... but do keep in mind that the Krylon Black Satin is actually quite shiny.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> I agree ... as long as the existing paint is bonded well, with no flakes, hard-edge chips, etc., I think a coat of primer should seal and protect things just fine. After I prime, I do a rub-down with a grey (mild) ScotchBrite pad ... I find that it does a nice job of getting into any nooks and crannies, and smooths out the primer nicely in prep for topcoat paint.
> 
> I've stripped and repainted both tinplate (sheet metal) trains, as well as metal cast trains ... all prewar. The recent 1688 redo was a metal cast shell. I think I mentioned that most of the old paint came off OK with Easy Off and the Dremel, except ... there was one section in the back where the original paint was incredibly bonded to the shell ... almost like it was integral with the metal, rather than just a layer on top. Odd. I buffed it smooth (ScotchBrite), primed it, painted it, and it looks just fine. You'd never know it was there.
> 
> Good luck, Ed ... I think that old train is gonna clean up / repaint just fine.
> 
> Ohh ... one other comment .. I mentioned this in the 1688 thread, too ...
> 
> On the 1688, I did NOT want a gloss black finish, so I chose the Krylon Satin Black. To my surprise, the satin is nearly as shiny as the Krylon Gloss. It's very hard to distinguish any difference between the two. If I were to do it over again, I'd try the Krylon Flat. It's a matter of personal preference, of course ... but do keep in mind that the Krylon Black Satin is actually quite shiny.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ



OK thanks 
I don't think it will be black but I will keep that in mind when I get some paint.

I have seen somewhere that after you paint it you should buff it out lightly with rubbing compound. A light rubbing compound did you ever do that?

The blue's you painted the last one were they gloss or satin or flat?

Probably tells in the post...I will go and look.


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## tjcruiser

I'm not a paint pro, by any means. I leave my topcoat as is. No buff. That said, the pros (like guys who paint cars) do buff with a light compound, often prior to clearcoat.

Not me, though ... too afraid!

Elvis' blues were gloss.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> I'm not a paint pro, by any means. I leave my topcoat as is. No buff. That said, the pros (like guys who paint cars) do buff with a light compound, often prior to clearcoat.
> 
> Not me, though ... too afraid!
> 
> Elvis' blues were gloss.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


You didn't clear coat it right?

Maybe some polish would be good for them?


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## tjcruiser

No clear coat ... just Krylon primer and color topcoat.


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> I go for the Heavy Duty Easy Off. Typically two "bubble baths", followed by Dremel stainless brush cleanup.
> 
> I'd give the Dremel a shot, Ed ... especially on the rear metal dome.
> 
> T-Man ... what type of BAG are you using that doesn't get eaten through with the Easy Off???
> 
> TJ


Well I finally got some heavy duty oven cleaner and put the 2065 into a zip lock to capture the fumes. I put it on an old broiler pan and let it sit in the basement for around 15 hrs or so. Tell you the truth I forgot about it. When I went down to check it out I saw that the bag sort of melted. I scrubbed it with a scrub brush and yahoo, paint came off.

It is sitting in the pan now roasting in oven cleaner some more . The next scrubbing will be the last then it is on to paint.

I picked up my "colors" I'm going to try two different colors:thumbsup:, but am going to keep it secret till I see how it comes out.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I used a Ziplock freezer bag overnight, and mine was in 100% condition when I came back to remove the shell, bag was solid.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I used a Ziplock freezer bag overnight, and mine was in 100% condition when I came back to remove the shell, bag was solid.



Not mine.:laugh:

Yes T said just a "food bag".

I used a heavy duty zip lock. maybe the freezer bag is a little heavier duty.


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## T-Man

I use a food storage bag,it's cheeper. I leave it open to prevent heat buildup, I don't want to risk a spontaneous combustion.


I can't believe I repeated the bag idea. Anyway closing the bag helps keeps everything from drying out. I don't seal it. Closing chemicals in sealed containers is not a good idea. But, if it works!
The paint laughed at me on the 1689 after a 20 minute soak. All that came off was the dirt. So overnight it was.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> I use a food storage bag,it's cheeper. I leave it open to prevent heat buildup, I don't want to risk a spontaneous combustion.



I thought you sealed it to capture "the fumes".

Well it did take some paint off.

It is roasting on the pan with a second coating of oven cleaner now.

I think it took some of my finger prints off too.:laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn

I actually closed mine, but I put it in a metal pan in the deepsink, just in case. As it turned out, it was fine, not a scratch on it.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I actually closed mine, but I put it in a metal pan in the deepsink, just in case. As it turned out, it was fine, not a scratch on it.



I did the same in the basement sink.
I have an old oven broiler pan and the oven cleaner just made it cleaner.

I am through cleaning now it just needs a little more touching up, then it is on to the paint.


























That is the fun part.


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## servoguy

If you leave it like it is, it could be a ghost engine.


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## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> If you leave it like it is, it could be a ghost engine.




_Phantom #666 
_







_

_


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> I did the same in the basement sink.
> I have an old oven broiler pan and the oven cleaner just made it cleaner.


The deepsink I mention is in the basement, I had that installed when I built the house, very useful. The old cookie sheet that I used is clean as a whistle now too.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The deepsink I mention is in the basement, I had that installed when I built the house, very useful. The old cookie sheet that I used is clean as a whistle now too.


I got a double deep sink. Cast? It has been there since the house was built 1950. 

The one side even has the ripples on the casting to wash cloths by hand. I guess that is what they are for.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, mine is 1/4" thick fiberglass, no washboard ripples.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, mine is 1/4" thick fiberglass, no washboard ripples.



Well....mine is a collectable, vintage, hard to find, antique, genuine, original 60 year old, double, deep sinks. 

It has a nice patina too.:laugh:

I think the faucet is original too. Still works good though.


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## Big Ed

It has been a long time coming but, THE PRIMER IS ON!:appl:
Now......on to the colors.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks good, looks like the same color primer I used for mine.


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## T-Man

Ed, that rail is not the best support. They do break. That is the most common problem. I can't even remember where I hung mine. Through the front stack works.

It looks great.:thumbsup:

See


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## gunrunnerjohn

That rail was broken on mine, it was the only thing I had to fix on the shell before painting it.

Since I didn't worry about painting inside the shell, I used a 2x4 mounted on a scrap wood base to hold mine up for painting. Steady as a rock, and I could pick it up and carry it around.


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## Big Ed

You mean the clothes hanger breaking or the bracket on the Loco?

I hope it last till it drys.

First color on,......anyone take a guess on what the second color will be?
The top of the cab is taped some. Most of it will be the other color, what you see is mainly tape.

I wish the paint dried quicker!


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## gunrunnerjohn

And I thought my color was bold. 

Don't have a clue what you'd use for the second color, green?


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## Artieiii

Green and orange.....hmmm perhaps it's "The great pumpkin" 
-Art


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## Big Ed

I like to be the boldest on the block.


Florescent green.:thumbsup:
To go with the florescent orange?:laugh:

Hint..............It is a Lionel engine.hwell:


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## Artieiii

Hmmm Lionel orange....goes with Lemme see Lionel blue?








-Art


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## Artieiii

Here's what I'm thinking something like this:
















Now for a road number.....how bout #1 /) /)
-Art


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR

Nice idea for a color scheme.

Forget what I said about Patina. This loco is gonna look great.

- Paul in AZ


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## Big Ed

Now the waiting game for the paint to thoroughly dry.

Then on to the next color.


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## T-Man

Yep, that is orange. GO ED GO!:thumbsup:


No Alien Green!


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## Artieiii

We wanna know what the next color is gonna be Big Ed! Do tell!
-Art


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## tjcruiser

Looks like it's gonna be Lionel colors to me! I like it!

Ed ... good call on being VERY patient in waiting several days for that paint to dry before attempting to tape it off for the second color spray.

TJ


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## Big Ed

Artieiii said:


> We wanna know what the next color is gonna be Big Ed! Do tell!
> -Art


I think everyone knows what color it will be.

Everyone knows I would like to see an Alien green engine.
But it won't be that.

I might do one of my other engines Alien glow in the dark green though.
Make a whole Alien train maybe. :thumbsup:
I got some Aliens that glow in the dark to run the train all ready in my stock.



tjcruiser said:


> Looks like it's gonna be Lionel colors to me! I like it!
> 
> Ed ... good call on being VERY patient in waiting several days for that paint to dry before attempting to tape it off for the second color spray.
> 
> TJ


It is baking in the bay window as we speak. Later on I will move it to the back of the house for the baking.

What tape do you use the blue stuff?
I have to do a little research on tape, I think there is one that is better then the blue stuff. I seem to recall seeing it somewhere.

It is hard trying to paint something like this in 2 colors with a rattle can. 
I might have been better off with an air brush.hwell:
I think I have some brush on paint close to the same color to touch up.

I dropped the boiler front all ready! 
It took 2 small chips from the new paint off.

See the top tank and the headlight housing?
An easy fix though as it was just the boiler piece and not the whole engine I dropped.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Good thing the paint can isn't empty!


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## T-Man

Ed, I have scratched up many times. Just spray it over. Not all of it but the affected area.
The main thing is not to overspray and get a run.

That piece pops out! Just spay it again!


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

You can try using Frog Tape ...

http://www.frogtape.com/Products.aspx

There's a version for use on delicate surfaces. This is meant for latex house paint ... I'm not sure if the benefit is the same with rattle can oil-based paint.

In my experience, *the key to getting crisp two-tone taped paint edges is to spray your color, and then remove the tape defining the edge as soon as possible thereafter ... before the paint dries!* Be careful with the removal, as you don't want the tape to stick back to the freshly painted area. Use tweezers, etc.

TJ


----------



## joe7034

Try spraying the paint into a small bowl, or the cap of the can and use a q-tip to dab into the chips, worked well for me
joe


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I agree with TJ, I use the blue tape for painting trim after the walls all the time, and if you wait until it's totally dry, IT'S A MESS!  It's tricky getting it off with the paint not totally dry, but it's a much better result.


----------



## T-Man

Looking at the shell, I tape against a wall for better results. In theory you did that for orange. That means I would of done it in reverse. Paint all the gray first with no tape. Then tape against raised sides. Then do the orange.

I look for the easiest way. Taping against a vertical edge is it, for the final coat.

Spraying thick doesn't help either.


----------



## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> Looking at the shell, I tape against a wall for better results. In theory you did that for orange. That means I would of done it in reverse. Paint all the gray first with no tape. Then tape against raised sides. Then do the orange.
> 
> I look for the easiest way. Taping against a vertical edge is it, for the final coat.
> 
> Spraying thick doesn't help either.




Looking at the shell I tape against a wall? Huh?
T, you do know that the gray was the primer, right?
The gray you see now will be another color. 

I primed it, then taped off the bottom to shoot the orange.
Now I am going to tape off the orange to finish the bottom in the second color.
After some thought I figured that would be the easiest way to put the 2 colors on.
The boiler nose is an easy fix. 

John,
I hardly never use tape when I paint in the house. Sometimes I have to use some in problem areas.

What I do is use placards and where I can slip them in like this and paint. Very easy and fast, no taping, no taking tape off. I look for the placards that are made of a plastic like cardboard (some are just cardboard), they last longer and you can wipe them down once the paint gets too thick on them. In spots that the placard won't slip under the trim I tape together a 3' section and just go along and paint.

Easy and neat.









In my kitchen,


----------



## Big Ed

joe7034 said:


> Try spraying the paint into a small bowl, or the cap of the can and use a q-tip to dab into the chips, worked well for me
> joe



Thanks Joe, I would do that but I would be afraid of cotton lint coming off the Q-tip.
I think a small foam brush would be better.

Duh me, it fell 6' to the hard concrete.
It fell when I lifted my garage door as I had it hanging from the ceiling of the garage first by the door. Luckly it was first in line to fall, if I kept lifting it would have hit the train in another 4'.


----------



## T-Man

I trust your judgement, it appeared easier to do the gray first whatever the finish is, then the orange. 

With a two tone I try to do recesssed areas first.
My example was the blue black tender. I painted the blue first.


----------



## Big Ed

Whoops....I need to touch up some spots!hwell:

Never again with paint from a spray can! ( unless it is one color maybe)

I will have to buy an air compressor for an airbrush. Like T said the paint blows out too thick with a rattle can. Also it is extremely hard to paint (tape) 2 different colors. 
I think I would have been better off painting it one color. 

Oh well there is always oven cleaner again then start all over...maybe ALL Alien green?


----------



## Artieiii

Big Ed,
Don't change the color!...i think it looks nice. Some Lionel labels on the side "Lionel Lines" and the big "L" logo Like this:
That's my vote but it's your railroad. 








I really prefer the contrast of 2 different colors rather than single color.
-Art


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey Ed,

I think it looks good. Add some Lionel decals, and you're all set. The blue overspray streaks actually give it a bit of a weathered / active look. The blue heat exchanger over the boiler front is a nice touch.

Happy 4th!

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

Artieiii said:


> Big Ed,
> Don't change the color!...i think it looks nice. Some Lionel labels on the side "Lionel Lines" and the big "L" logo Like this:
> That's my vote but it's your railroad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really prefer the contrast of 2 different colors rather than single color.
> -Art



I am trying to touch it up like Joe said but with a brush.
I sat down at the computer desk and got everything ready along with a mineral spirits bottle for the brushes.
I went into the garage with a plastic throw away cup and shot some orange paint in it then brought it back into the house.
Well in 5 mins the little bit of paint that was in the cup ate through the bottom! Ha Ha Ha 
Luckily I had it on a piece of newspaper! I guess I never shot spray paint into a plastic cup before.hwell:
Now I have to find an old glass cup and ask the old (young) lady if I could use it but everyone I pick she says no. (we only have a few thousand around)
She found an old McDonald's glass but heck that is over 25 years old I can't use that.
I am going to try to fix it up. Lesson learned.
I would have airbrushed but I need a new compressor and didn't want to spend the bucks.

Good Ideal though, right? 
Blue and orange?:thumbsup:

Don't look bad from far away.hwell:


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> I think it looks good. Add some Lionel decals, and you're all set. The blue overspray streaks actually give it a bit of a weathered / active look. The blue heat exchanger over the boiler front is a nice touch.
> 
> Happy 4th!
> 
> TJ



Thanks tj, but I have to try and fix it...touch it up a bit, I thought I had tape there. See where the top blue on the roof meets the orange, I must touch that up and spots around the cab too. 
On the other side I forgot to tape one of the rail holes and there was blue on the orange so I took a little MS (mineral spirits) to get the blue off and it took the orange off too!
The primer is on solid, the MS didn't touch that. Looking at the primer can I see it says automobile primer...I wonder if I used the wrong primer?

Plus it really shot the paint on too think...I think.

I just might try all over.hwell:

The paint should come off real easy.

I looked for the Lionel L decal and could not find any. 
Do you know of any? 

You going to pilot the Constitution on the turn around?:thumbsup:


----------



## T-Man

It's great! Just tape it off and go with a little orange, you're done!!:thumbsup:

When it was wet a q tip with some paint thinner may have saved it. Fresh paint is unpredictable I have had to sand down areas for a touch up. Not fun.


----------



## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> It's great! Just tape it off and go with a little orange, you're done!!:thumbsup:
> 
> When it was wet a q tip with some paint thinner may have saved it. Fresh paint is unpredictable I have had to sand down areas for a touch up. Not fun.



The last time I sprayed with a can it came with a different type of spray tip.
When I got done I would always turn the can upside down to clear the tip.
With these tips if you turn the can upside down it never clears it just keeps spraying! You can paint with the can upside down...I don't like the tips!
Plus the new tip I think shoots too much paint!

I am going to try to fix it up some......still searching for a glass container, I need to find some old baby food jars, they would be perfect.

Has anyone seen a Lionel L decal for sale anywhere?
Maybe a round prewar metal emblem would work?


----------



## T-Man

TJ has said, that "Jeff of the train tender" sells the decal to go over the prewar emblem.

You can't beat cheep thin paint for locos!
I miss my Walmart selection, the reduced the colors.


----------



## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> TJ has said, that "Jeff of the train tender" sells the decal to go over the prewar emblem.
> 
> You can't beat cheep thin paint for locos!
> I miss my Walmart selection, the reduced the colors.


Thanks I will check him out as I still am going to get a handrail and rods from him. Maybe TJ can give me a part number that would be better then searching his whole site. I wonder if he has the actual emblem?

Can't find a glass cup to use so I cut the top off of soda can to touch up the orange a little.
Not bad from far away, I won't use the macro setting.

Still have to touch up the blue.


----------



## Giants

Very Nice Kenwood Paint Job.
Prize Piece - Colours look Great and Very Glossy.


----------



## Big Ed

Giants said:


> Very Nice Kenwood Paint Job.
> Prize Piece - Colours look Great and Very Glossy.


Many years ago the old (young) lady sent me to the electronic / appliance store to get a new fridge. As she was in bed under doctor orders, at 8 months with the twins.

The Kenwood stereo system is what I came back with. As old as that is it still blasts music just fine.
Heck we eventually got a new fridge too.

She goes with me now when we need a new appliance.


----------



## tjcruiser

Sorry, guys ...

I don't recall specifying a source for Lionel emblem decals. Anything I've purchased from Jeff in the emblem category has been tinplate style badges ... originally installed with tabs, but repros now with sticky backs. Hard metal, though ... not wet-transfer decals.

Ed, have you searched on ebay ???

Sorry I don't have a source for you ...

Your touched-up Rev #2 (in Post 95) looks GREAT!!!

TJ


----------



## T-Man

Shouldn't that work?

If not, scan and print.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'm taking notes about doing two-tone paint here.  It's looking good, no need to repaint, just a little "tweaking".


----------



## Artieiii

Big Ed,
I photoshopped this for ya. That's what I would do if it were my project.








I could see one of those paint jobs in my collection! Don't give up on the 2 tone.....it looks great!
-Art


----------



## Badwolf & Arizona RR

I think the paint turned out very well. Good job.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Badwolf & Arizona RR said:


> I think the paint turned out very well. Good job.


Sure, but this is the guy that talks about *Alien Green* and other odd choices, then goes conventional colors when he paints his stuff.


----------



## Badwolf & Arizona RR

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Sure, but this is the guy that talks about *Alien Green* and other odd choices, then goes conventional colors when he paints his stuff.


Yeah, that's all well and good, but aliens aren't all green.

Many are kind of a greyish-brown with light sockets around very dark eyes.



FWIW


----------



## Artieiii

*Extraterrestrial X-Press*

How bout this big ed.
The Extraterrestrial X-Press:









-Art


----------



## Giants

Shivers that look's nice - 'Back to the Future' without Wheels - Art.
Excellent Paint Job Too.


----------



## T-Man

ED, may go mad trying to find that shade of green.

I'm impressed.


----------



## Badwolf & Arizona RR

Artieiii said:


> How bout this big ed.
> The Extraterrestrial X-Press:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Art


That is a great green - it would be PERFECT with a dash more blue.

- Paul in AZ


----------



## Artieiii

Badwolf,
Any color is possible with photoshop. This was just a quick photochop. If I was gonna make labels for a train I would add some embossing effect to the font and maybe a hint of drop shadow. I think I might get rid of the E in Extraterrestrial......New Name X-Traterrestrail X-Press or Extraterrestrial X-Press..not sure. The font is called "X-files" and is free for download.
Maybe one of these on the side if you are going for more whimsical alien theme.








-Art


----------



## Badwolf & Arizona RR

I'd probably use something like this, which may be more "period neutral" or "period specific" (depending on how you look at it).










It's an "atomic man" which could be anything, and might lend more mystery to the thing.


----------



## eljefe

big ed said:


> View attachment 10714


These look like University of Illinois colors. Go Illini!


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Sorry, guys ...
> 
> I don't recall specifying a source for Lionel emblem decals. Anything I've purchased from Jeff in the emblem category has been tinplate style badges ... originally installed with tabs, but repros now with sticky backs. Hard metal, though ... not wet-transfer decals.
> 
> Ed, have you searched on ebay ???
> 
> Sorry I don't have a source for you ...
> 
> Your touched-up Rev #2 (in Post 95) looks GREAT!!!
> 
> TJ


Yes I searched and came up with nothing.hwell:
Thanks, I still have to touch up the blue.




gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm taking notes about doing two-tone paint here.  It's looking good, no need to repaint, just a little "tweaking".


Airbrush.....put that in your notes for doing two colors.
thanks, I do have to tweak some more.



Artieiii said:


> Big Ed,
> I photoshopped this for ya. That's what I would do if it were my project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could see one of those paint jobs in my collection! Don't give up on the 2 tone.....it looks great!
> -Art


I wonder how the letters would look in yellow? Try to squeeze #2065 in too please.



Badwolf & Arizona RR said:


> I think the paint turned out very well. Good job.


Thank you, I am not going to take the picture with the macro on.:laugh:



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Sure, but this is the guy that talks about *Alien Green* and other odd choices, then goes conventional colors when he paints his stuff.


This guy will do an alien engine, maybe a whole train. Don't hold your breath while waiting.



T-Man said:


> ED, may go mad trying to find that shade of green.
> 
> I'm impressed.


T- man, I already found the alien green, it is glow in the dark florescent paint.:thumbsup:



eljefe said:


> These look like University of Illinois colors. Go Illini!


Ha Ha Ha........do they have Lionel train mascots?:laugh:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> This guy will do an alien engine, maybe a whole train. Don't hold your breath while waiting.


I don't believe it, you just wanted to sucker me into doing one.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I don't believe it, you just wanted to sucker me into doing one.



I got a whole bunch of scouts in a box.
one would be a good candidate for an alien green paint job.

if anything " someone" will beat me to it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I assure you, it won't be me.   I got my "alien" colored set now, gold.


----------



## Artieiii

Here Big Ed:
Is this what you wanted?








-Art


----------



## Big Ed

Art,

It is not level!


I think the blue looks better. Without the number.:thumbsup:


----------



## Artieiii

big ed said:


> Art,
> 
> It is not level!
> 
> 
> I think the blue looks better. Without the number.:thumbsup:


I agree the blue looks way better. I noticed that my photoshopping was off a bit. I just wanted you to see what it would look like with yellow letters and numbers like you suggested.

It's looking good to me :thumbsup::thumbsup:
-Art


----------



## Big Ed

I am going to use this tender for the L.Blue & Orange Xpress. 

The engine is not done yet, the wheels are just sitting there for the picture. I have a new spring and rivet for the rear truck in my parts box. The one that was on was real weak so I might as well replace it now.

I almost snagged a Blue & orange box car cheap, my bid was not high enough. There will be more. 

I think I am going to make a 6 or 7 car train right to the caboose,L. Blue & Orange.:thumbsup:

Still got to get some parts shipped to me, I got to sit down and make a list.hwell:


----------



## santafe158

That's looking good Ed. Can't wait to see the finished product.


----------



## Big Ed

santafe158 said:


> That's looking good Ed. Can't wait to see the finished product.



Thanks.....I can't wait either.
Maybe a year for a whole train. 2?


----------



## tjcruiser

Ed,

The loco looks GREAT! I may have to put you on the Tinman payroll!

Very nice!

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> The loco looks GREAT! I may have to put you on the Tinman payroll!
> 
> Very nice!
> 
> TJ


Naw......Your The Tin Man.:thumbsup:

The tender #?......., is primed.
You can still can see the Lionel Lines. 
That is OK I don't mind.


















Wait Around 40 mins, then give it some color.
Drum roll...,
Anyone guess the color?


----------



## Nathan Plemons

I just sold my "rustoleum" Hudson on e-bay for a decent profit. Figured there might be good money in resurrecting them from the scrap yard. Of course if I get any really nice ones I'll have to keep them for myself 

Looking good!


----------



## Big Ed

What one was that?
Did you post a picture?

Rustoleum provides a ton of work through my company. Keeps us rolling.
So I figured I would use their product.
Some of my sweat in in those cans too.
Whenever I shake the can I wonder if some of my chemicals are in it.

Though as T mentioned THE PAINT COMES OUT TOO THICK!
And I don't like these "new" tips. I like the old spray tips.

1 thing good about the tips is that you can spray it upside, down while balancing on your head. 
If you need too.:laugh:


----------



## tjcruiser

I nearly had a minor disaster over the weekend. I was spraying the frame on one of my 1681's with a new can of red Krlyon when the plastic spray tip broke somehow ... with the paint spray in a permanent "spraying on" position. It was only by dumb luck that I managed not to overspray / drip / ruin the frame.

I was NOT happy about that $3.50 Krylon can ... 

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That must have been exciting, what's all red around your house now? :laugh:


----------



## Big Ed

First color on.

The flash makes it look shinier then it is, plus the paint is wet.


----------



## Nathan Plemons

big ed said:


> What one was that?
> Did you post a picture?


It's the 2065 that I posted about here http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7822 needing the exploded parts diagram. I gave $40 for it and only had to do some cleaning and spent about $5 in parts to get it back in good shape. I didn't take the time to repaint it. I picked up a tender for $10 and was able to sell it for $100 on ebay. So $55 invested gained me $45. I would have liked to have kept it but I have larger goals...

I know of a model train shop about 2 hours from me that has tons and tons of lionel stuff, much of it I would like to have to keep. I think I can get more online out of some of his pieces than what he is asking as they sit. I think he might also have a stash of things that need a little or a lot of work. I plan to go up there Saturday with a wallet full of cash and see how much he is willing to bargain. I perhaps I can make enough of a profit flipping his inventory that I can save up to buy what I want for my own collection.

When I was there a few weeks ago he had a few things I want, my top priorities are as follows:

2-6-6-6 Allegheny that will actually run on 0-31
6-8-6 Pennsylvania Turbine
4-8-4 Norfolk and Western J


----------



## Big Ed

Nathan Plemons said:


> It's the 2065 that I posted about here http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7822 needing the exploded parts diagram. I gave $40 for it and only had to do some cleaning and spent about $5 in parts to get it back in good shape. I didn't take the time to repaint it. I picked up a tender for $10 and was able to sell it for $100 on ebay. So $55 invested gained me $45. I would have liked to have kept it but I have larger goals...
> 
> I know of a model train shop about 2 hours from me that has tons and tons of lionel stuff, much of it I would like to have to keep. I think I can get more online out of some of his pieces than what he is asking as they sit. I think he might also have a stash of things that need a little or a lot of work. I plan to go up there Saturday with a wallet full of cash and see how much he is willing to bargain. I perhaps I can make enough of a profit flipping his inventory that I can save up to buy what I want for my own collection.
> 
> When I was there a few weeks ago he had a few things I want, my top priorities are as follows:
> 
> 2-6-6-6 Allegheny that will actually run on 0-31
> 6-8-6 Pennsylvania Turbine
> 4-8-4 Norfolk and Western J



I thought you were keeping it like that for the patina it had.
I didn't know you had priorities.

Sounds like your going to become a Rail Road Tycoon.:laugh:

Did you sell it with the tender?


----------



## Nathan Plemons

Yes but it was a non-whistling tender. Had it been the correct tender I'm sure I could have got more for it.


----------



## tjcruiser

Ed -- tender-in-progress looks nice ... it'll be a classy Lionel-colored set!

John -- fortunately, no exploding-paint-can mess in the house ... I was spraying in a shady spot on my back lawn. I do have a patch of red grass now, though!

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Red grass is all the rage, I have some gold grass left over from my painting of a couple weeks ago, it's almost gone.


----------



## Big Ed

First color on, I will sit it in the bay window to bake in the morning sun.

With this weather I just got to make sure it doesn't melt!:laugh:

I am keeping the coal as it was. I just cleaned it up some and have to touch up a few spots. What looks like an orange tint on it is not there, the camera caused it.hwell:


----------



## joe7034

Ed, are you going to spray the bottom or use a brush? Looks really good!
Joe


----------



## tjcruiser

I know what your loco is thinking ...

"Wow! Hubba, hubba. Hey, baby ... wanna go for a ride! Yowza!"

 :thumbsup:

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

joe7034 said:


> Ed, are you going to spray the bottom or use a brush? Looks really good!
> Joe



I am going to spray it with the same rattle can that I did the engine with.

Your suggestion worked good about the paint and Q tip. But I used a small brush for touch up as I was picking up pieces of the Q tip lint, trying it that way.
And don't use a plastic throw a way cup!
It will melt the bottom out.:laugh:


----------



## Big Ed

Got the blue on, I have to touch up both the blue and orange yet. Plus a little of the coal, I didn't paint the coal as it looked good just cleaning it up with a little Dawn dish soap.

It is back to baking in my Bay window oven.


----------



## Badwolf & Arizona RR

Looking Sharp, Big.


----------



## santafe158

Looks really nice Ed. Can't wait to see it all put back together again.


----------



## Big Ed

Badwolf & Arizona RR said:


> Looking Sharp, Big.


Thank you



santafe158 said:


> Looks really nice Ed. Can't wait to see it all put back together again.


Thank you

It still needs some touch up.

I won one of these yesterday, less them $20 bucks shipped, brand new.:thumbsup:

This site had a picture and he is sold out, he was asking $45.
I have seen them listed for more. And they are getting harder to find.

I think it will look good on the Blue & Orange Lxpress.









Edit,
I forgot I ordered the hand rails, new valve gear with eccentric crank, cross head and rod, light lens, (I had new markers) 2 new rod spacers, stack gasket and 6 of those circle L's stick-ons.


----------



## tjcruiser

Ed,

Tender is looking very nice. I like the way you painted the ladder and small details the contrasting darker color.

*6* circle-L's ... wow ... I wonder if Jeff is gonna send me a commission ?!?!? 

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I like the tender treatment, I didn't think to mask off some of those details. I guess I could mask off the rest and spray those black.


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> Tender is looking very nice. I like the way you painted the ladder and small details the contrasting darker color.
> 
> *6* circle-L's ... wow ... I wonder if Jeff is gonna send me a commission ?!?!?
> 
> TJ


I wonder why he won't take a credit card or pay-pal?
He told me to let him know when I mailed the check and he will send it out.
I told him it will be sent first thing in the morning.
Does he know you as TJ? I mentioned I found out about him on modeltrainforum.com but didn't mention any names.

Send him an e mail....tell him I am good for the $$$$.
Then ask what your commission is.:laugh:
I only spent $31 with shipping. The L's were over $10.

I still got to touch it up some and find a new very thin brush to finish it.

I can still see the Lionel lines on it. I was thinking of scraping them a little and then painting the letters again...what do you think? Possible?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Ed, after a couple of orders he'll just ship and bill you in the shipment. He just wants to make sure you're gonna' pay.


----------



## tjcruiser

He knows me as TJ or Tom from RI. He deals with LOTS of customers, though. I've tried to encourage Jeff to poke around our forum, though I don't think he has. I've told him he has a great reputation here, with several new customers pointed his way.

He prefers check to PayPal ... PayPal has associated sender fees.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think he keeps busy sending us parts.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I like the tender treatment, I didn't think to mask off some of those details. I guess I could mask off the rest and spray those black.



I brushed the steps and hatch John.

With a small brush, I took some spray paint and sprayed into my half of coke can I cut. And painted them with a brush.
It still needs some more detailing paint but I have to find a new thin brush as mine is almost gone. I am waiting till the paint drys good.

A small brush and a steady hand is a must.

Read the last line of #144 here, I edited it, what do you all think? Anyone ever try it?


----------



## tjcruiser

Re: 144 ...

I guess it depends on how "proud" of the surface the letters are. Tricky to scrape ... maybe use a very sharp single-edge razor blade.

Or are the letters inset below the main surface? If so, can you fill that area with a little thinned epoxy, dry, sand, and repaint?

Might be too risky on either count, though ...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I sanded the hell out of them before painting, I didn't want them showing through. I've never tried to get rid of stuff like this after-the-fact, but I've only painted a few train items so far, I'm a novice.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I like the tender treatment, I didn't think to mask off some of those details. I guess I could mask off the rest and spray those black.


John, get your self a bottle of black and paint it right over the gold. Take your time with a little brush.



tjcruiser said:


> Re: 144 ...
> 
> I guess it depends on how "proud" of the surface the letters are. Tricky to scrape ... maybe use a very sharp single-edge razor blade.
> 
> Or are the letters inset below the main surface? If so, can you fill that area with a little thinned epoxy, dry, sand, and repaint?
> 
> Might be too risky on either count, though ...




Your both are not understanding my intentions. I only lightly sanded the tender. I stayed away from the Lionel Lines letters all together.

As they are indented into the body I figured that I could just follow the remaining lines and paint them with a brush. But some are just barely visible and a light scraping with a hobby knife might get enough for me to follow the lines to repaint them.

That was my plan all along.
Maybe a sharpie pen? Tin man is the sharpie man too.
I never even used a sharpie pen.

Maybe I will use The Lionel Lines with dry transfers?hwell:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Oh, I thought you were changing the letters! If you want them to be restored, you're right, we misunderstanding your intentions. 

I wanted them gone so I could rename my $5 tender, so I made sure they were gone.

I'm not sure I'm good enough with a brush to have that steady of a hand. I guess I could mask a bit and brush, then I wouldn't have to be quite so steady...


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Oh, I thought you were changing the letters! If you want them to be restored, you're right, we misunderstanding your intentions.
> 
> I wanted them gone so I could rename my $5 tender, so I made sure they were gone.
> 
> I'm not sure I'm good enough with a brush to have that steady of a hand. I guess I could mask a bit and brush, then I wouldn't have to be quite so steady...


A real small brush is what I use. It looks like there is hardly any bristles at all and they do wear down quick. 
A trick is to use something thin, (Like a hotel credit card key see TJ he has thousands:laugh.
Use the card as you go around to protect the parts you don't want painted.
Use 2 hands to hold the brush, a quality brush makes the job easier the cheap ones fall apart and don't hold their shape. 
You have some gold left I would imagine, if you mess up wait till it drys and shoot some gold in a GLASS cup and touch it up with a brush.

A lighted magnifying glass is handy too. I have not used mine yet though I might, if I try the letters with a brush.

How about getting the Mrs es involved?
Maybe she has a steadier hand?


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

Whatever you try, if the letters are indented, make sure you paint one side at a time, with that side held horizontally ... that way, gravity works in your favor. Start in the middle of each letter (away from the letter's edge), and then let the paint flow towards the edge. I'd try thinned paint ... or maybe even a Pilot gold (or silver) pen. Tricky work, though. 

Good luck ...

TJ


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## Big Ed

I just finished up all my new, custom cut, oak crown ceiling molding with stain and clear coat. 
Too Hot outside!

Here is the old #2065, 
The engine and tender are just sitting there for the picture. 
Nothing is attached, parts are coming. Needs more work. Detailing.























Looks too shiny?
Maybe I will weather it.


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## Big Ed

I put it to work taking out an old Pullman, going to get restored.










It had the Lionel guys scratching their heads. They came to see it when it came back for a load of tankers.









They are checking it out pretty good.









Too shiny?

I will try not using the flash. 
They don't look that shiny to the naked eye.


Parts are in the mail.:thumbsup:
Mailman took my letter.
I hope it gets there.:laugh:


About a month ago they had a double trailer Fed X driver cross RT84 and crash.

I did not see it as I was luckily going away from it. It was just west of the NY Thruway. I got on going east. The traffic going west was backed up to the other side on the Newburgh bridge. Quite a mess, driver died.

I wonder how many of the packages made it to their destination.
I wonder how many trains packages were on it too.


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## Big Ed

No?

I won this car late Friday night.
It came in the mail today from California.
Fast?:thumbsup:

It is more red then orange, but it will go with my Orange Blossom Express.


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## gunrunnerjohn

FWIW, when I have auctions that complete in the evening, and they're paid immediately, I usually have the stuff out for pickup the next day.


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> FWIW, when I have auctions that complete in the evening, and they're paid immediately, I usually have the stuff out for pickup the next day.


You the man!:thumbsup:


My mistake it was Thursday night....still fast. :thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn

So far I have 100% feedback, trying to keep it that way.


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## Big Ed




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## tjcruiser

Hey Ed,

*BRAVO!*

Looks really nice. Tell us what you did for the letters on the tender. Did you paint the "indents" that were there?

Nice circle-L's 

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> *BRAVO!*
> 
> Looks really nice. Tell us what you did for the letters on the tender. Did you paint the "indents" that were there?
> 
> Nice circle-L's
> 
> TJ



Dry transfer letters, but I don't like how they came out.:thumbsdown:
I might end up shooting the blue again on the tender. Or extend the orange down to just below the letters then re-letter it.

I still have to touch up the paint in spots on the engine and tender, but the new parts came today so I put them on.


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## tjcruiser

When I apply dry-transfer letters/numbers, I lay a strips of tape at the target bottom and top edges of my letters, and then use that as a guide for letter position and placement.

Looks like you were trying to apply the letters on top of some bumpy / rivetted sections? I've only worked with flat surfaces for dry-transfers on my end.

TJ


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## Big Ed

I picked up a tanker and another box for The Blue & Orange blossom.


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## servoguy

Ed,
Looking very very good.
Congratulations.
B


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## tjcruiser

Hey Ed,

Looks fabulous ... very nice custom work! I really like your "themed" trains ... Lionel, Beth Steel, etc. ... excellent collection!

:thumbsup:

TJ


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## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> Ed,
> Looking very very good.
> Congratulations.
> B





tjcruiser said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Looks fabulous ... very nice custom work! I really like your "themed" trains ... Lionel, Beth Steel, etc. ... excellent collection!
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> TJ


Thanks

I don't like the lettering results.
I am Debating what to do but as for now I am putting run time on it.
One thing about the dry transfers are that once they are on, they are hard to get off without ruining the paint.

Runs like a rocket, I am surprised at how well it runs, though it could use some new rollers., I am happy about how it runs, for sitting outside in the dump pile for who knows how long.
Basically all I did to the engine was clean and add (servoguy's) oil treatment to it.

I still have to touch up the blue and orange a little. I figured I will wait till I do a caboose in those colors then touch it up.
I also have to get a new small detail brush.
I got to get out the old marker lights and put the new ones on too.


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## santafe158

Looking real nice Ed.

The lettering on the tender looks fine. The engine could use a number though.


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## Artieiii

santafe158 said:


> Looking real nice Ed.
> 
> The lettering on the tender looks fine. The engine could use a number though.


I'd go with #1900 as in the year Lionel started. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Looking good Ed.
-Art


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## eljefe

big ed said:


> Basically all I did to the engine was clean and add (servoguy's) oil treatment to it.


What is "servoguy's oil treatment"? I have plenty of recent purchases needing routine maintenance.


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## Big Ed

eljefe said:


> What is "servoguy's oil treatment"? I have plenty of recent purchases needing routine maintenance.



Instead of using the heavy grease, as it tends to harden up after some time, the servoguys formula is to clean all traces of the grease and instead use drops of 5x20 motor oil in place.
Not a drowning but a few well placed drops instead of the grease. 

The servoguys been oiling his engines for over 100 years like that, and has no problems.:thumbsup:
The T Man here uses his drain oil from oil changes I think.


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## Big Ed

santafe158 said:


> Looking real nice Ed.
> 
> The lettering on the tender looks fine. The engine could use a number though.


Thanks but I did not take a close up picture.
So you can't see it.:laugh:
I will fix it some how.



Artieiii said:


> I'd go with #1900 as in the year Lionel started. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
> Looking good Ed.
> -Art


Thanks
I was thinking just the 2065 for the number.


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## servoguy

My approach is simple. I usually do only whatever disassembly is necessary. If a loco has a particularly dirty commutator and brush plate, I will disassemble it and clean it. I clean out the commutator slots, the brush holders and the brushes. When I put the loco back together, I oil all the bearings and the side rods and connecting rods. I oil the pilot and trailing truck. I oil the motor and the gears and the shafts the gears are running on. I oil all the wheel bearings. One or two drops of 5W-20 motor oil. I also oil the commutator which reduces the brush friction and probably increases the brush life. This oil does not interfere at all with the operation of the motor. I use motor oil because I used it in the past (45 years ago), and when I took an engine out of the box that was last run 45 years ago (and was oiled with Valvolene 20W-40), the engine ran fine and the oil was not dried out. My logic is as follows: motor oil has a very low vapor pressure because you can put it into a car engine where it may be as hot as 220F, and the oil doesn't evaporate. I have disassembled several locos that had been greased, and the grease had turned to cement. The oil never dries out. Now don't try 3 in 1 oil or any light machine oils because they will get gummy. 

Bruce Baker


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## Big Ed

Thanks Bruce.
This, (The servoguys been oiling his engines for over 100 years like that, and has no problems.:thumbsup was meant as a little humor.
I hope it did not offend.

From now on it is the servoguys way for me.:thumbsup:
No more grease.:thumbsdown:


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## servoguy

Hi, Ed,
No offense taken. It isn't 100 years, but more like 45. The engines I had 60 years ago were long since sold. 
BB


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## tjcruiser

Ed,

I don't think Bruce's trains are 100 years old, so he can't have been oiling them like that for quite that long.



TJ


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## servoguy

The oldest engine I have is a 152 made between 1917 and 1927. I got it from my uncle who got it when he was a kid. I have a baggage car and observation car to go with it. I also have the original box and track and the rheostat. All I have done to it is oil it and re-insulate the wire with heat shrink. It runs just fine, although it is a little boring as all it does is go forward.

BB


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## santafe158

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> I don't think Bruce's trains are 100 years old, so he can't have been oiling them like that for quite that long.
> 
> 
> 
> TJ


My dad had a story that is something like that. When he was having some work done on the outside of our house, one of the things on the to do list was to have the dormer (we have a bungalow) re-sided with wood shakes (as it originally would have been). He was talking with one of the contractors when he was looking into having it done and they tried to insist that some material (can't remember what it was, vinyl or maybe cement board comes to mind) would last way longer than wood shakes. My dad then pointed at the 85 year old wood shakes covering the rest of the house and informed the guy that there is no vinyl that is 85 years old (he doesn't like vinyl siding at all) so it would be fairly impossible to know if it would last longer than the wood ones.

Long story short, that guy didn't do the work and the house has wood shakes on it like always and we haven't had any leakage problems since (the wood replaced the aluminum siding which had allowed water to run down and rot out the roof of the porch)


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## servoguy

I got into an argument with some of the guys on the trains.com forum about lubricants. One guy swore by LaBelle oil and grease, but had no test data or any other data to support his position. One guy was filling up the oil hole on his 726/736 motors with red and tacky grease. I hope for his sake it doesn't dry out because I don't think there would be a way to get it out. I am an engineer and I don't believe unsupported claims. 

BTW, it is obvious now that Lionel didn't have it right back in the '50s as their Lionel Lube dried out and now we have it all over the wheels of the PW cars. It was also expensive.

Some other manufacturers claim that their lubes are safe for plastic. Where is the test data?

BTW, there are places in this country where cedar shakes don't do well. Cedar shakes must dry out between rainstorms in order to keep from rotting. Here in Florida, they don't do well because in the summer, it never dries out. In California and other places where there are wild fires, they don't provide fire protection. 

I had some cedar eve troughs on a house in New Jersey back in the '60s. I didn't do anything to them and they were 8 years old when I sold the house. My neighbor was trying to preserve them with tar, and his rotted out. Go figure.

Bruce Baker


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## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> I got into an argument with some of the guys on the trains.com forum about lubricants. One guy swore by LaBelle oil and grease, but had no test data or any other data to support his position. One guy was filling up the oil hole on his 726/736 motors with red and tacky grease. I hope for his sake it doesn't dry out because I don't think there would be a way to get it out. I am an engineer and I don't believe unsupported claims.
> 
> BTW, it is obvious now that Lionel didn't have it right back in the '50s as their Lionel Lube dried out and now we have it all over the wheels of the PW cars. It was also expensive.
> 
> Some other manufacturers claim that their lubes are safe for plastic. Where is the test data?
> 
> BTW, there are places in this country where cedar shakes don't do well. Cedar shakes must dry out between rainstorms in order to keep from rotting. Here in Florida, they don't do well because in the summer, it never dries out. In California and other places where there are wild fires, they don't provide fire protection.
> 
> I had some cedar eve troughs on a house in New Jersey back in the '60s. I didn't do anything to them and they were 8 years old when I sold the house. My neighbor was trying to preserve them with tar, and his rotted out. Go figure.
> 
> Bruce Baker



What do you think about synthetic oil Bruce?
There is someone pushing it I think it was on e bay.
Next time I come across it I will post it.


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## servoguy

Ed, I have an engineer friend in Los Angeles who is an expert on lubricants. I also ran across a model railroader recently who had worked in the oil business for his career. The model railroader cautioned that synthetic lubricants might damage paint. I don't know if this is true or not. My friend in LA said that synthetics are better lubricants than non-synthetics. I use regular 5W-20 because it is cheap and I have some on hand. The bearing loads on toy trains are not high enough to be worried about the film strength of the oil. 

I think the main question is, "Where is the test data?"


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## Big Ed

servoguy said:


> Ed, I have an engineer friend in Los Angeles who is an expert on lubricants. I also ran across a model railroader recently who had worked in the oil business for his career. The model railroader cautioned that synthetic lubricants might damage paint. I don't know if this is true or not. My friend in LA said that synthetics are better lubricants than non-synthetics. I use regular 5W-20 because it is cheap and I have some on hand. The bearing loads on toy trains are not high enough to be worried about the film strength of the oil.
> 
> I think the main question is, "Where is the test data?"


I don't have it.

But maybe that synthetic would last a lot longer then the regular oil?
Plus a quart of some synthetic should take care of thousands of engines for a long time.
I like the oil better then the lube. 
I think our T man uses drain oil? 
I would think clean oil is better.
But,
An old mechanic I know, had an old Oldsmobile with 350,000 miles on it and besides the first year of free dealer oil changes he never changed the oil.
But every 2500 miles he would change the filter and add a quart. He said oil never breaks down but instead just gets dirty and if you change the filter faithfully and add a quart it always stays clean.

At 275,000 he had to put a new intake manifold gasket on it and I got to see the inside, it looked brand new, no sludge at all. 
Besides that gasket, he never had the engine apart for anything major.

Me....I still change my oil.


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## servoguy

I change my oil, also. There are additives in the oil that are used up, particularly the additives that control acid build up. Changing the oil is cheap insurance. I used to have a couple of 85 Mercedes 380 SEs. These engines can be seriously damaged by not changing the oil. 

BB


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## T-Man

For the record, I prefer transmission fluid. Maybe because of the color.
Car oil, I drain the new containers into a small squeeze bottle, overnight. I use that mostly for air operated tools. I always believed that any lube is better than none. Used oil, I recycle. So I do use drained oil, but I drain new oil from used containers.

For gears, bearing grease hardenens over time so I prefer a white lithium or Lubriplate.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I also use Lubriplate on gears, I've never seen it harden, and I've used it for 30+ years.


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## FlintNodule

Oh MY!


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## norgale

xxxxxx


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## norgale

servoguy said:


> Ed, The white spots on the loco are probably corrosion from the smoke pellets. I believe they are amonium nitrate which is very corrosive. I have seen this on other locos but never as bad as the one you have.
> BB


WOW! That's the stuff McVey used to blow up the Fed building in Oklahoma City. You sure that's the same stuff? Pete


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## Kwikster

servoguy said:


> Ed, The white spots on the loco are probably corrosion from the smoke pellets. I believe they are amonium nitrate which is very corrosive. I have seen this on other locos but never as bad as the one you have.
> BB





norgale said:


> WOW! That's the stuff McVey used to blow up the Fed building in Oklahoma City. You sure that's the same stuff? Pete


Truthfully, Pete, the first smoke pellets were amonium nitrate as Bruce said. However, they found them to be toxic and dangerous. So they maker went back to work and re-formulated them into safe, non-toxic form we have today. 

"For the Lionel electric steam locomotive released in 1946, these puffs of smoke were made of nitrogen oxide, created by burning a pellet of ammonium nitrate. Breathing enough of this smoke could cause eye-watering and coughing, and when swallowed, the pellets caused dizziness, heaves, and diarrhea, but these dangers were considered a small price for realism at the time.

American Flyer’s 1946 locomotives, on the other hand, produced a more billowing effect with a “choo-choo” sound, using a petroleum-based cedar-scented liquid that was nontoxic. Quickly, Lionel scientists formulated an even less-toxic smoke pellet and a hot-wire smoking device."

Taken from: http://www.collectorsweekly.com/model-trains/steam I know i read another story on this somewhere else, but was unable to find it.

Carl


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## norgale

big ed said:


> The last time I sprayed with a can it came with a different type of spray tip.
> When I got done I would always turn the can upside down to clear the tip.
> With these tips if you turn the can upside down it never clears it just keeps spraying! You can paint with the can upside down...I don't like the tips!
> Plus the new tip I think shoots too much paint!
> 
> I am going to try to fix it up some......still searching for a glass container, I need to find some old baby food jars, they would be perfect.
> 
> Has anyone seen a Lionel L decal for sale anywhere?
> Maybe a round prewar metal emblem would work?


I havn't read all this but I'll bet your talking about Rustolium Painters Touch spray paint. I just got some for my box cars and it comes out too thick and the spray nozzle really sucks. Got to stick with the regular Rustolium and then it's ok. Pete


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## norgale

That engine looks fantastic Ed but it needs one more thing, a white stripe separating the orange from the blue alongthe edge of the catwalk and the outside rails of the front steps. Pete


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## tjcruiser

Kwikster said:


> Truthfully, Pete, the first smoke pellets were amonium nitrate as Bruce said. However, they found them to be toxic and dangerous. So they maker went back to work and re-formulated them into safe, non-toxic form we have today.
> 
> "For the Lionel electric steam locomotive released in 1946, these puffs of smoke were made of nitrogen oxide, created by burning a pellet of ammonium nitrate. Breathing enough of this smoke could cause eye-watering and coughing, and when swallowed, the pellets caused dizziness, heaves, and diarrhea, but these dangers were considered a small price for realism at the time.


Wow ... I didn't know that. Ammonium nitrate (fertilizer!) is what brought down the Oklahoma City Fed Building. And kids in the '50's were playing with this stuff ?!? Yikes!

TJ


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## Kwikster

Suffice it to say, TJ, I'm glad they changed  I'd read that before, but Pete making mention brought it back to mind and I linked it.

Carl


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## Big Ed

norgale said:


> That engine looks fantastic Ed but it needs one more thing, a white stripe separating the orange from the blue alongthe edge of the catwalk and the outside rails of the front steps. Pete


I was thinking more of a Lionel yellow would look good.
I hate those new spray tips, give me the old ones any day. 
I voiced my complaint in the lab at Rustoleum while making a delivery of Toluene. 



tjcruiser said:


> Wow ... I didn't know that. Ammonium nitrate (fertilizer!) is what brought down the Oklahoma City Fed Building. And kids in the '50's were playing with this stuff ?!? Yikes!
> 
> TJ



He bought a little over forty 50-pound bags of Ammonia nitrate.

He originally planned to construct a bomb containing more than 5,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, mixed with about 1,200 pounds of liquid nitromethane and 350 pounds of Tovex. But it would have been too heavy so he changed his plans.

That is why the sales are regulated now. Anyone purchasing over 25lbs of Ammonia nitrate has to register and be screened against known terrorist lists, and require any thefts to be reported within 24 hours.

​


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