# Bell sounds when blowing the horn



## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I recently bought a new Atlas N scale Dash 8 with factory DCC & Sound (ESU LokSound V5).

Whenever I blow the horn, the bell also rings. How do I stop the bell from ringing when all I want to do is blow the horn? I've never come across a loco that rings the bell whenever I toot the horn.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

Sorry,can't help with how decoder set up, but thought some railroads had the horn and bell locked together for entering stations and grade crossings as an additional warning sound. Bell would ring until shut off. Or am I imagining this scenario?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Yeah, I realize it's more prototypical to have the bell sound whenever I blow the horn. I hate it, and want it to stop doing that. Why do manufacturers force me to have it that way? Seems like it should be a simple CV setting.... but no... it's more complicated that re-tasking a spy satellite.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Oh? So tell us, how many spy satellites have you re-tasked lately….?


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Instruction manual?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Atlas / ESU LokSound Instruction manual is useless. When researching online, it seems it can be un-programed, but even research online is not really clear on how to defeat it. 

I believe it's called the "Auto E-Bell" and whenever the horn is blown, the bell starts ringing. This may be prototypical, but I find it VERY irritating.

Here's what I think I need to do... but the instructions I have found for this states for "*ES44AC / ES44DC ONLY"* And of course, I have a Dash 8-40C.

First, set CV32 = 1
Then set CV323 = 0

The second step supposedly sets the volume of this bell to zero. The Auto E-Bell is a different sound than the regular bell. If I hit F1 right after blowing the horn, I hear 2 bells. It's just stupid. 

Whoever makes these sound decoders is trying too hard to be everything to everyone. All I want is a horn OR a bell. If I want them both to make noise at the same time, I'll press 2 buttons, thank you.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

rrman is right about the horn/bell setup in reply 2 above.

Once upon a time, the engine bell was completely "manually controlled". That is, the bell only rang when you activated the bell ringer in the cab (in days of old these were air-controlled devices).

On modern engines (at least on Amtrak), the bell will also ring when the horn is sounded. So you'd have to get used to turning off the bell each time you used the horn.

I'm not sure if modern freight units tie the horn and bell together (freight engines in my day did not), but that seems plausible.

So... perhaps the LokSound comes from the factory with horn/bell set to "activate together".

If that's the case, there may be a CV setup to "break apart" the two functions. You'd have to research that.

Aside from the horn function, does the bell turn on/off with the bell button function?

Last thought:
On some modern-day passenger locomotives (at least the electric ones), the bell is no longer "air-operated". In fact, there's no "bell" at all. Rather, there's an _"electronic bell"_ -- a device that emits a bell-like sound using a speaker. They sound "pretty much" like a real bell. And they don't freeze up in winter.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

This is a new Atlas Dash 8. The ESU decoder is programmed to automatically ring the E-bell when the horn is blown. I believe it can be "defeated" by turning the E-Bell volume down to zero. But in order to do that, another CV must be set a certain way. It's not as simple as changing a CV value. It's a PITA is what it is. Here is what I believe I need to do:

Step 1: set CV32 to 1
Step 2: Set CV48 to some number that is the sum of 4 different numbers (primary mover, plus bell, plus horn, plus brake squeal) The bell I need to include is NOT THE E-BELL. The E-bell will always play when the horn is blown, so it must be turned all the way down). The sum of all the desired sounds is loaded as a single value to CV48. This step makes a bell other-than-the-e-bell as the one that rings when you hit F1
Step 3: Set CV323 to zero. (This turns down the volume of the E-Bell to zero)

I _THINK_ the above is correct... but only because I have been able to coble all that together based on various discussions on other forums.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

You didn’t mention, that I saw, whether you tried resetting or not. I’m assuming you did. 
Besides adjusting CVs, there is function mapping too, which is changing how functions function. I’ve only done it with lights, not sound though.
You also didn’t mention if you emailed Atlas and/or ESU with an inquiry. With a useless manual and mystery abounding on it, I’d ask the horses mouth.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Here is an example that someone recorded.






ed and explained.


His is a different make, but it's the same issue. I want to completely eliminate the automatic bell function. The only way I have figured out is to take the E-Bell volume to zero.


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## beepjuice (Sep 17, 2014)

I'd tell you to contact the Atlas Customer service but I tried twice and NO response. So that would be up to you.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

JeffHurl said:


> Yeah, I realize it's more prototypical to have the bell sound whenever I blow the horn. I hate it, and want it to stop doing that. Why do manufacturers force me to have it that way? Seems like it should be a simple CV setting.... but no... it's more complicated that re-tasking a spy satellite.


One word....................... *PULL!*
*









*

I know the feeling...............* *


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I have a similar issue with three Walthers F3s. Not the horn/bell but flange squeal. 
ESU LocSound decoder. Flange squeal is the default setting, most annoying thing 
I have ever heard and can't find a way to turn it off. 3 brand new locos just became shelf queens. 

Who wants to listen to flange squeal all day long. Why do they do that to everybody when only a few 
rivet counters would want this or E-Bells. They really are overdoing it. I'm done with ESU for sure. 
Rant over. Jeff hope you get this fixed, I think I just gave up.

Magic


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## Spruslayer (Dec 13, 2020)

I have done 10 installs of ESU decoders,7 Loksound and 3 Lokpilot.
I have not experienced any of the issues described in this post.
I have been considering purchasing an Atlas Loco with the Loksound decoder but have now ditched that thought due to all the problems that are included with them. Not sure why the factory installed Loksound are differant than the user instaled ones so any Atlas loco i will consider purchasing will be the DCC ready ones that include a speaker and i will install the decoder.
I am using a Nec Power Cab and f1 rings the bell on or off and f2 sounds the horn.I also have the Lokprogrammer to download sound files and do programing.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> Atlas / ESU LokSound Instruction manual is useless. When researching online, it seems it can be un-programed, but even research online is not really clear on how to defeat it.
> 
> I believe it's called the "Auto E-Bell" and whenever the horn is blown, the bell starts ringing. This may be prototypical, but I find it VERY irritating.
> 
> ...


Well, none of that worked. I think it was specific to the way that particular decoder was programmed versus the way it's programmed for the Dash 8.

Back to square one, or as Jon Anderson would say, move on back 2 squares.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

An ESU Lokprogrammer would tell you exactly how the sounds are mapped to the function buttons and would allow you to separate the sounds to different buttons.

The function mapping from the ESU website does not indicate that the horn and bell are on the same button for your make and model locomotive. They appear on two separate F keys.

Someone _may _have made changes to the programming either at the shop where you purchased this, or it was possibly altered by a previous owner and they sent you a re-boxed customer return.

There is nothing inherently wrong with these decoders, but because of the programming capabilities and flexibility they allow, they are not for everyone.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

This is a brand new Atlas 40004750 - DASH 8-40C w/ DCC & Sound Undecorated (Phase 1) - N Scale that I got from Midwest Model Railroad. There was a quick start guide in the box, but no real manual. And nowhere online, either at Atlas or ESU, can I find a user guide specific to the way this decoder is programmed.

The F1 is mapped to the bell. F2 is mapped to the horn. But whenever you hit the Horn button (or the F2) it also rings the bell for about 3 seconds. 

I'm seeing some chatter online about ESU having an automatic E-bell on some locomotives where the prototype had automatic E-bells.

It's a damn crime that I have to spend hundreds of dollars just to be able to read how this thing is programmed.

So... Which is the better investment: $150 for LokProgrammer, or $50 for the USB cable to hook up JMRI using the MRC Prodigy Advance Squared that I already have?


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

FWIW, and not wanting to sound like “I told you so,” but this serves as a good example to everybody why my personal preference is buying DC locos and a separate decoder of my choosing.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Actually, this is just another reason why locos with sound aren't my thing. Like OilValley RR, I buy DC versions and install my own (non-sound) decoders. It's cheaper that way as well. I hope you get it fixed.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Well now I find out that JMRI can work with the NCE Power Cab... Just need a NCE USB Panel.

So there are 3 options I have:
1. ESU Lokprogrammer $150
2. NCE / JMRI $60
3. MRC / JMRI $60

I have an NCE Power Cab and an MRC Prodigy Advance Sq. It would cost about $60 to get a computer interface for either DCC system.

The LokProgrammer is the most expensive and also the most restricted in use. I have non-ESU decoders. On the other hand, the issue I have is very LokSound specific.

Not sure that JMRI can un-program the automatic E-Bell. Not sure I want to spend $60 and roll the dice. Or is it highly likely that JMRI can un-program it?

Of the three options, which would you choose, and why?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Still curious to hear anyone's recommendation in regards to the three options.

In the meantime, I have been told that I can simply download a different sound file that doesn't have an Automatic E-Bell but still has the other sounds of later diesel locomotives. Sounds simple, but I will need to figure out which sound file would be appropriate, and then figure out how to download and install it on the decoder. I assume either of the three options above will do that, correct?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You will need the Lokprogrammer to upload a new sound file to the decoder.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Thanks, Michael! 

I did come across these instructions on how to turn off the automatic E-Bell on ESU decoders. I will try this series of CV changes and report back.

Step 1:
Set CV 31 = 16
Set CV 32 = 8
Set CV 311 = 4

Step 2:
Set CV 31 = 16
Set CV 32 = 1
Set CV 287 = 0

Hopefully this works. If not, I'll probably pick up a LokProgrammer and see if I can find a sound file for the FDL16 that doesn't have an automatic E-Bell


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

ESU GE Dash 8-32BWH Atlas


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> ESU GE Dash 8-32BWH Atlas


That sound file has an auto bell function. Most of the ones for the Dash 8 family do have the auto bell. But each one of them says to go through the 2-step process above to turn it on or off.

Below is an excerpt from their description. Based on this, I will try the 2 step CV changes to see if that turns off the auto bell. If not, I suppose I could also try to set the automatic bell duration to 0 (CV 160 = 0)


From the ESU web site under ESU GE Dash 9-31BWH Atlas description:

Auto Bell:

Many Second and Third Generation locomotives have been fitted with an Automatic Bell that is triggered when the horn is blown. In MANY cases this cannot even be bypassed on modern locos. Before the FRA mandated this feature on new locomotives the bell was of course turned on and off separately. Some locomotives were delivered with a manual bell and have been converted to an automatic bell. This creates a challenge in sound file creation.

We realize that not every loco with a particular prime mover had this feature. As such we have built in an option to turn the feature on and off. We will set the default in the file to be what is most appropriate for the particular file.

To turn the feature OFF - Auto Bell OFF:

1. Remove the Auto bell sound slot from the function mapping chart
CV31 = 16, CV32 = 8
----------------------
CV311 = 4

2. Change the sound configuration of the Auto bell sound slot
CV31 = 16, CV32 = 1
----------------------
CV287 = 0

To turn the feature ON - Auto Bell ON:
1. ADD the Auto bell sound slot from the function mapping chart
CV31 = 16, CV32 = 8
----------------------
CV311 = 12

2. Change the sound configuration of the Auto bell sound slot
CV31 = 16, CV32 = 1
----------------------
CV287 = 1


Auto Bell Timer:
The Bell timer is amount of time the bell will play after the horn if the auto timer is active. The timer is broken down into 1/4 of a second increments.
CV169=4 - 1 Second
CV169=8 - 2 Seconds
CV169=12 - 3 Seconds
CV169=16 - 4 Seconds
CV169=20 - 5 Seconds - Default
Etc...


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Just a thought. If Atlas & ESU don’t respond to customer service emails, try one of those online decoder installers. I never used one of those companies, not certain that I could accurately identify any (thinking TonysTrainExchange but might be incorrect). They would at least respond I’d think, maybe have an answer about the E-Bell being disconnected, or a long shot perhaps they’ll offer to swap the decoder for a similar one for labor only (trade in of the board)?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I did the 2 step process above, and the auto bell has stopped. Now I can blow the horn without the bell automatically starting.

There was nothing about this in any Atlas manual, and only vague references to it in the actually decoder manual. I had to read the description of each sound file to figure out how to stop the auto-bell. Google searches found nothing other than another obscure reference from Intermountain. But their solution was different and didn't work on the Atlas locomotive.

If I hadn't been persistent, I probably would have bought a lokprogrammer and would have still only been lucky to figure it out.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Under Function Assignments, the Lokprogrammer would have displayed the horn and bell assigned to the same function key.

Selecting one or the other from a drop-down menu would have allowed you to eliminate one of the functions with a keystroke.

The same action accomplished by manipulating the CVs manually.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Glad it was a mapping thing that you could undo.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Jeff wrote:
_"If I hadn't been persistent, I probably would have bought a lokprogrammer and would have still only been lucky to figure it out."_

I found a video on YouTube from someone who demonstrated how to change settings in an ESU decoder without using the Lokprogrammer HARDWARE.

It did require that one use the free Lokprogrammer SOFTWARE App.
But instead of loading the changes "directly" to the decoder (using combined software+hardware), the guy in the video showed how to _export the decoder settings_, and then load them into the decoder another way (I think he used JMRI)...

I looked and found the video:


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## Billy Ray (May 21, 2018)

JeffHurl said:


> This is a new Atlas Dash 8. The ESU decoder is programmed to automatically ring the E-bell when the horn is blown. I believe it can be "defeated" by turning the E-Bell volume down to zero. But in order to do that, another CV must be set a certain way. It's not as simple as changing a CV value. It's a PITA is what it is. Here is what I believe I need to do:
> 
> Step 1: set CV32 to 1
> Step 2: Set CV48 to some number that is the sum of 4 different numbers (primary mover, plus bell, plus horn, plus brake squeal) The bell I need to include is NOT THE E-BELL. The E-bell will always play when the horn is blown, so it must be turned all the way down). The sum of all the desired sounds is loaded as a single value to CV48. This step makes a bell other-than-the-e-bell as the one that rings when you hit F1
> ...


May be time to contact the company help line.
Don't know if they could help, but then again, they just might have your answer. What have you got to lose?


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