# Diesel Locomotives brands



## thomashmaine

what do people think are the best brand for diesel engines? i am looking for CSX or NS?

thanks

thomas


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## swiggy

i don't think those are brands. they are company names. brands would be like Athearn, Bachman, Kato, etc. is this what you mean? if you live in the Northeast, you may want to look for the types that run in your area. I am in Colorado, I run Union Pacific, BNSF, and soon D&RGW. hope this helps.


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## thomashmaine

csx and ns are the company names but i am wondering what brands are best for those? i want something that comes dcc ready and with sound. from what i have seen, not all of them offer those company names. i am just wanting to know what other peoples experiences are and what they recommend.


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## swiggy

check this out - i like the dark future

http://www.mainlinehobby.com/google... No.4402 GP35 GP-35 CSX DCC ON BOARD CSX 4402

http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQ8wIwAw#

the brand really depends on the amount of money you want to spend. I have to say - I bought an $85 dcc ready athearn - I am running dc right now - it pulls ok. I bought a $32 bachman non-dcc and can pull 18 cars up 3% with little slowing. i want to try a bachmann dcc when i upgrade.


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## thomashmaine

swiggy said:


> check this out - i like the dark future
> 
> http://www.mainlinehobby.com/google... No.4402 GP35 GP-35 CSX DCC ON BOARD CSX 4402
> 
> http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQ8wIwAw#
> 
> the brand really depends on the amount of money you want to spend. I have to say - I bought an $85 dcc ready athearn - I am running dc right now - it pulls ok. I bought a $32 bachman non-dcc and can pull 18 cars up 3% with little slowing. i want to try a bachmann dcc when i upgrade.


why is that one so much cheaper? i am looking at the following ones and they are expensive

i am looking at the following ones

http://mthtrains.com/content/80-2001-1
or
http://www.broadway-limited.com/2128...nddcdccho.aspx
or
https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/item...000405&eq=&Tp=
or
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Defa...odID=ATHG67203


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## dozer

For the $$$$, Atlas engines are brutes! Right now I'm running 3 Athearn genesis sd-70's ( ok pullers) a Broadway Limited SD-45 (smooth as silk but a little weak), and a Bachmann DCC gp-38 ( very noisy, inconsistant speed control but fairly strong) and 3 Atlas gp-39's smooth as silk, best performance and quietest runners.


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## swiggy

i have heard the atlas are great!!!! i guess you get what you pay for - more bells/whistles/more $$$$.


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## thomashmaine

dozer said:


> For the $$$$, Atlas engines are brutes! Right now I'm running 3 Athearn genesis sd-70's ( ok pullers) a Broadway Limited SD-45 (smooth as silk but a little weak), and a Bachmann DCC gp-38 ( very noisy, inconsistant speed control but fairly strong) and 3 Atlas gp-39's smooth as silk, best performance and quietest runners.


so from the links i had above you would go with the broadway or atlas? i am starting witha 4x8 layout so not sure if that makes a difference.


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## MacDaddy55

Hey Swiggy,
Broadway Limited and MTH are VERY expensive(unless you have the cash) and are super detailed DCC W/ sound I believe. Athearn,Atlas,Kato,and Proto are very good and Bachmann is below them. But itsa all up to you and your bank account and preference. Athearn and Atlas are on my layout and have done everything that I've wanted. I still have some Bachmann and even LifeLlike that are about 15 years old still running but are going into the Garage Sale so I can upgrade. For little kids to play arround with I'd use the Bachmann and LifLike. Athearn has every Road name immaginable....as do the others and yeah...they pull like Brutes! Hope this helped. Oh...check your local hobby shop for sales and the Web. Watch the shipping and handling!


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## tankist

thomashmaine said:


> why is that one so much cheaper? i am looking at the following ones and they are expensive


for the same very reason basic honda civic is cheaper then loaded accord. different price categories, different market segment. there are toy engines, there are basic model grade engines, there are standart, and there are top of the line, neatly detailed premium class. you almost always get what you pay for, vote with your wallet


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## thomashmaine

MacDaddy55 said:


> Hey Swiggy,
> Athearn and Atlas are on my layout and have done everything that I've wanted. :!


what atlas engines do you have. i was looking at the HM GP40-2 PH1 CSX 6351. do you know the difference with the 149 and 239 models, there website isnt very good in telling you.


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## dozer

Atlas engines are very affordale, and all of them have ran great for me. They have 3 different ranges to choose from. master series, gold, and trainman series.


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## MacDaddy55

*Older Model Atlas Geeps and SD's!*

I have 2 GP 40's and 2 SD 35's ranging from DRGW to UP and all are strong quiet pullers and runners. The highest price was $71.00 and the lowest(a steal on Ebay) $22.00. I've had these Diesels for 10yrs(the Ebay is 15 and has been cleaned and lubed). All original motors and just outstanding performers. You can get lucky at 6:00AM on the Bay......but it sure is getting harder to find a steal these days.hwell: The Trainman series is very affordable and though the detail isn't quite there they are great engines for the price.


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## stationmaster

I think we discussed this before.

If I were to place manufacturers in order by quality/price(diesel only) they would be as follows:

*Kato* - The KING arguably but not much to argue about at all. High priced, but I'd say worth it.
*Atlas* - There are a couple of different levels, but I am talking the
Atlas top of the line here, Platinum Series, I believe. These have Kato drives.
*Atlas/Roco*(Yellow Box Atlas) - Another Atlas product with a Roco drive. Pretty strong runners.
*Proto 2000*(P2K) - These engines can be hit or miss. But, if you happen to get a good one, it's a dandy. Early 2-axle drivers had problems with gears, and easy fix, just a PIA.
*Intermountain* - Their premium line, the Regal Line, is very underrated and a real sleeper as most have never heard of them. Strong runners. Nicely detailed.
*Stewart* - Don't know why I like these engines so much but I've never had problem with them. A touch underweight, and noisier than some, still some of their products are real sleepers when it comes to power.
*BLI*(Broadway Limited) - A bit overrated here but cutting edge when it comes to DCC and sound, not real good pullers though, but adequate in most applications. I like their 6-axle power, the SD's, E-units and such. And their steam engines are among the best plastic models made. Customer service is a bit lacking.
*Athearn Genesis* - Pretty decent, not great pullers but decent. 1st class customer service. I double andtriple head a group of Dash-8's and a group of Dash -9's, pretty stout then.
*Bachman Spectrum* - Pretty close to the Athearn Genesis line. Pretty much a dead heat there. Great customer service, comparable to Athearns's.
*Bachman Plus* - May surprise some with this choice, but for the money these engines are amazing. Seems the news is getting out though. Price on eBay for these is rising.
*MTH* - Finally joining the rest as their products were pretty much proprietary in the past. Probably should be ranked a bit higher though.
*Roco* - Good runners, but I think that the are overrated and lack much detail. Take the body off, throw it away and add a nicer shell, like a Hobby Town shell, and you have one heck of an engine.
*Athean Blue Box* - the staple for most of my time in the hobby. Inexpensive and darn near bullet-proof.

I will add *IHC's Premier Line*. Mostly their steam engines. Great quality for the price. I'm not real enthused with their diesel power, though. Detail isn't great on those. But a good starting platform for those that like to super detail their stock.

Going into the more benign, I would list the manufacturers in this order: Bachman Trainman, IHC, AHM, Model Power, TYCO.

I didn't include old manufacturers, or products, such as Varney, Mantua, Hobby Town, Globe, old Athearn Hi-F's(rubber band-belt drives) as most of you wouldn't be interested in those.

Bob


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## tjcruiser

Bob,

That's great info. I'm not much of an HO diesel guy, but for those who are, I'm wondering if B&M might bump your post/info above to an HO "start here" or "how to" sticky thread ... great intel for anyone getting their feet wet and/or expanding their horizons.

TJ


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## stationmaster

TJ, it's only an opinion, my opinion. Much of what is listed, and the order in which they are listed, can be argued from today until the end of time. I've left out a few including brass models. My reason being that many will never get into brass, because of affordability, and some of the older units, while available on sites like eBay, only attract collectors, not modelers. 

I have brass engines and I have collected, over time and not intentionally, many older manufacturers. Many are crap by today's standards, not very detailed, poor runners, and cantankerous at best. Maintenance leeches, demanding constant attention. Engines like the Athearn Hi-F's, the rubber band drive units, are truly amp hogs. I've got many of these older units and do run them from time to time. Mine, for the most part, remain in boxes or are relegated to be "shelf queens".

You won't find many modelers using older units as the staple for their layouts, though I know some that do. But they are a different breed. Throwbacks, if you will. And some of these guys still use brass rail. Ozone fills the air in their train rooms during operating sessions. And many of the old cast Mantua's and Varney's suffer from a plague called "zinc rot", "zinc pest" or zamac. A deterioration of the casting that causes parts to crumble like a cookie.

I thank you for the props, but someone else may have a different opinion. Shouldn't make my opinion weigh any more than any others out there.

Bob


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## thomashmaine

Bob,

thank you for this great information. its really helpful. what is your thought on 6-axle trains on a 4x8? alot of the companies say they will run on 18" but it seems a little tight. i was orginally going with 22 and 18 " radius but i am thinking i am going to go with a 22 and 20(flextrack). the only part of the track that will be 18" would be the turn coming out of the of the yard.

I would also like to know more about kato. why do you think they are the best, there prices seem to be reasonable, unless i am looking in the wrong place. 

sorry for all the questions

thomas


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## stationmaster

6-axle engines + 22"r turns = TROUBLE and swing out, which leads to ungainly looking engines going around a corner. There may be some short 6-axle units that will look a bit better, such as the SD7's but still not at all pretty. If I were just starting out, I would look seriously at the P2K GP7/9's or even the GP18's. Depends on the era you are modeling, of course. If you would model the "transition era", you would have a plethora of engines to choose from, including steam. The BL2's, F-units, E-units, the H16-44's etc, for diesels, I do have a fondness for, not only the period, but engines, like the F's, E's, early Geep's and SD's, the BL2, and the Fairbanks-Morris Trainmasters. Maybe one of the shorter C-truck(6-axle) engines might look OK. MIGHT , I said. The longer 6-axle engines look much more realistic on layouts with radii closer to 30". If possible, I'd increase the size of your layout to 6x10 allowing for wider turns if you are set on using C-axle engines. But, it's your railroad.

I've been upgrading some of my stock from the Athearn Blue Box diesel offerings to higher quality engines, Atlas, P2K, and such. Many companies, including Kato, tend to offer more modern engines than my time period. But my roster is mostly steam engines. The early diesels, those manufactured up to 1964, or so, are readily available and are well represented on the layout, however.

Bob


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## thomashmaine

Thanks Again Bob, more great information. I am currently wanting to base my model on the Current Era of Diesel Engines. I want to use CSX and NS Engines that are used locally in Virginia for my layout. i was looking at the Atlas – 10000405 – GP40-2 PH1 CSX. when you speak of a short 6-axle would the following be considered one?Broadway-limited – bli-5272 Emd sd40-2 CSX.

I would love to go bigger then 4x8 but currently i have room in the office for the layout. i do have an unfinished garage with a ton of space but that presents its only problems.


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## aionta

Not that this has anything to do with CTX etc but Rapido make some perty engines and cars. If only I were rich!!!

Aaron


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## stationmaster

If I were rich, all of my engines would be brass.

Bob


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## tjcruiser

Bob,

Your point above on "your opinion, only" is duly noted. That said, it should be stated here for others that yours is the voice of very experienced opinions ... and it's that experienced knowledge sharing that makes the forum here such a great learning site.

Thanks!

TJ


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## stationmaster

TJ, that was a very nice, subtle, and well disguised way to call me OLD and a blabbermouth. lol

Bob


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## thomashmaine

I appreciate everyone's feedback so far. i have narrowed my choices to atlas gold series and bli blue line and paragon2. You can see below the choices. My only concern with the 6 axle diesel sd40-2 is that it might be 2 big for the 4x8 layout with the main line being 22", inner line being 20" and the turnout out of the yard 18". while i dont mind a little big of over hang i dont want to have any issues with the train not running realiable. if you want to see the layout i can post a picture of it. i created it with rts 10.0. 

Broadway-limited – bli-5272 Emd sd40-2 CSX
Broadway-limited – bli-1246 emd sd40-2 NS
Atlas – 10000405 – GP40-2 PH1 CSX
Atlas – 10000676 - GP40-2 PH1 NS


There were alot of other choices of csx/ns engines with dcc/sound in the brands that were mentioned by bob but i thought they would be too big as they were larger 6 axle diesels. One thing that i still dont understand is why bob thought kato was hands done the king. what makes them better them the rest?

This thread has been very helpful, thanks again to everyone who has contributed.

Thomas


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## stationmaster

Kato is, arguably, the highest quality, best running engine in its class on the market. I would say that any engine out there will be compare to the details, performance, and overall quality of these engines. Kato is the standard by which all others are measured, and have been for years. I would have to say that Kato is brass quality, in plastic.

There may be some naysayers, but I would think the those in agreement will far out number those that disagree. 

Just a tid-bit to reinforce my supposition, there are companies that use Kato chassis under their shells. Included, Atlas, Intermountain, even Stewart had a line using Kato powered chassis in the past. Some "cottage entrepreneurs" use highly detailed shells, such as those from Hobby Town and Hi-Liners, and Kato power. Just seems to me that if the chassis weren't as good as advertised, they wouldn't be so widely used in products other than their own.

Even this old geezer has used Kato chassis in kitbashing engines. They are as bullet-proof as Athearn at a much higher quality(and price). Quiet running and strong pullers, pretty well detailed, can't ask for much more than that. Unless, of course, they would bring down the price a bit.

Bob


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## thomashmaine

Bob,

do there engines come dcc and sound ready? i looked on there site and i didnt see any. from what i gather its just a standard engine as far as features.


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## stationmaster

Most companies offer DCC ready or full blown DCC decoder equipped engines. Kato included. If you want realistic operation and sound, look for Tsunami equipped engines. I believe Genesis is now equipping their engines with Tsunami decoders, though I may be mistaken. I know that some company is doing so. It may be a QSI decoder and sound I'm thinking of. A bit under the weather here with a really bad sinus infection and my thinker ain't thinkin' real clear. Someone may chip in with a correction.

I know for fact that P2K, Atlas, and Genesis come DCC ready as I have about (6) engines in front of me that I am installing decoders in as I type. The decoders and speakers arrived in the mail today from Tony's Train Exchange and gives me something to do on the railroad front. I'm getting a bit bored painting, applying decals, and weathering for the past couple of weeks. And I really don't feel up to playing with plaster on my dioramas.

Bob


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## igmuska

I run 6 axle Athearn RTR SD45s on my layout, using only Atlas Code 83 18" radius curves, but one locomotive seems to be finicky about running through the curve at slow speed (a complete overhaul is upcoming) as well as adding track re-railers at the exit points of the curves. Running at full speed through the curves seems to reduce the derailing though.
I would have went with 22" curves, but my hobby shop didn't have them in stock then; they do now but that would mean I'd have to get a Wal-mart board stretcher to add a few inches to my layout.


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## thomashmaine

Thanks again for the good info Bob, i hope you feel better.

I just came across a deal from factorydirecttrains.com where you buy one bli sd40-2 high hood(paragon2), you get one for free. (2 engines for 200 with dcc and sound). it was a deal it couldnt pass up. so that is what i am going to start with.

i will keep this thread in mind when looking for my next one. This thread has provided me with great information that i can take with me in furthering my layout.

thank you again for all of your help

FYI, i posted a thread about my layout in the layout forum. i have gotten some good feedback and considering reworking portions of the layout.


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## stationmaster

Long, C-truck engines and tight, <18"r turns, is a formula for problems and unrealistic "swing out" when navigating those turns. Trains passing on a dual track corner has the distinct possibility of the affected train derailing the other train as well as itself.

I can understand the impatience of modelers, what I can't understand is why, though warned, mentored, and coached, they STILL wish to defy all of the input from others and rush to get the layout finished by using tight radius turns. Yes, this is one of my pet peeves and I have to vent. 

I KNOW that the SD45 looks "awkward" going around a turn with an 18"r. In no means of the imagination can the engine look any where near realistic when making that turn. I'm not a rivet counter by any stretch of the imagination, but some things cannot be overlooked. And the problem may not be the engine, but the track itself. Get a track gauge an check the track BEFORE overhauling the engine. Save yourself a bit of time. And you always be able to use the gauge in the future for a myriad of uses. Clearances, track gauge, wheel gauge, and so on. 

Bob


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## stationmaster

I've dealt with FactoryDirectTrains. Customer service HAS been an issue at times. At other times is been fine. I hope your experience with them is a good one. I've also found that calling the order in, rather than using the internet, has been the better experience. Just to let you know. You can check availability, shipping date, get your confirmation and all of the other stuff associated with mail order.

Bob


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## thomashmaine

Bob,

i understand your frustration. All of the advice and information i have gotten from this forum has not fallen on deaf ears. 

In the current plan of the layout which can be seen by clicking the link below, the main lines are 22 and 20 " radius. the only 18" r i have is coming out of the yard. Because this layout is still on paper and not built, i do have the flexibility to change it. i am in the process of reworking the layout per some advice already giving in the thread. Since i went with the 6-axle desiel and not the 4. i am looking at eliminating the 18" radius turns. Maybe try and keep the lowest to a 20" using flex track. I just couldnt pass up a deal to start with 2 trains instead of 1. I hope that makes since. 

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=183404#post183404 

I am also exploring what other "Shapes" or sizes i can fit into my space. while i do not mind a little bit of "toy train look" with the swing out, this will be corrected in phase 2 which would include a larger layout. i dont want to have any problems with derailments.

Your insite and feedback is very helpful, thanks again.

thomas


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## thomashmaine

stationmaster said:


> Long, C-truck engines and sd45
> Bob


Bob,

in an effort to further my knowledge about trains. what do you mean by c-truck. and why did you say sd45, even though its a sd40-2. 

sorry if these questions may seem silly.

thomas


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## stationmaster

C-trucks are 6-wheel drive, B-trucks are 4-wheel. Any SD was my reference, although, and I have to say this, there are some short wheelbase C-truck engines, most directly the early SD's like the SD7/9. Longer than the Geeps of similar distinction(GP7 and GP9), yet shorter than the more modern engines, SD 35's, SD40's, SD45's SD70/75's and such.

I applaud your decision to use flextrack. It give one so much more flexibility over sectional track. Props to you. A short section of 18"r may not be as bad as a full 180* turn using that radius. I have a section o 16"r coming out one of my industrial switching areas, about a length of 14". But very few, if any C-truck engines will ever pass that area, mostly small geeps and switch engines. It still looks odd to me, though others have commented that they notice nothing odd or bad with the area.

One thing I would HIGHLY recommend with your new layout, make it able to support future additions. Other than the fact I built my layout modular, that was the best advice ever given to me. I have rails stopping near the edge for no apparent reason other than they are now able to support future construction. I just use them as dead end sidings until such time as they will be a part of some future module.

Bob


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## thomashmaine

thats great info for a beginner like me, thank you for explaining that. Now its crystal clear. i will post a picture of the layout as soon as its been redesigned. i am still want to go with 2 main lines around the outside. do you think doing a couple of turnout's that will dead end on either side would be enough for future expansion?


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## igmuska

stationmaster said:


> Long, C-truck engines and tight, <18"r turns, is a formula for problems and unrealistic "swing out" when navigating those turns. Trains passing on a dual track corner has the distinct possibility of the affected train derailing the other train as well as itself.
> 
> I can understand the impatience of modelers, what I can't understand is why, though warned, mentored, and coached, they STILL wish to defy all of the input from others and rush to get the layout finished by using tight radius turns. Yes, this is one of my pet peeves and I have to vent.
> 
> I KNOW that the SD45 looks "awkward" going around a turn with an 18"r. In no means of the imagination can the engine look any where near realistic when making that turn. I'm not a rivet counter by any stretch of the imagination, but some things cannot be overlooked. And the problem may not be the engine, but the track itself. Get a track gauge an check the track BEFORE overhauling the engine. Save yourself a bit of time. And you always be able to use the gauge in the future for a myriad of uses. Clearances, track gauge, wheel gauge, and so on.
> 
> Bob


I agree with you on this and also modular track planning. With respect to my layout, I used RTS 8.0, XtrkCAD and the Atlas True Track booklet. From running my trains, I have to say that the optimal layout size to recommend to beginners such as myself is 6' X 10'.
As for modularity, when the time comes, I'll just drop my short board on top a new board with foam for more mountains and tunnels. I have discovered that having only one mainline track means that to use the stub sidings, I have to stop the trains.
Now the question should be whether the choice of the locomotive imposes limitation on the choice of the layout? I can just imagine somewhere out there a trainhead, giggling with glee, at finishing an oval using 15" radius curves, then cursing all that is holy upon trying to run his NYC Mohawk.


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## stationmaster

Uhhh, ummmm, been there done that. My first layout that I built was 4x8, most of us start there. A great learning experience. My E-units, E6's I believe, couldn't handle the tight radii of my corners. I was relegated to using only F's, F3's and F7's, and a couple of RS3's. Anything larger would simply derail or be the cause of an off track excursion.

Prior to constructing ANY layout, decisions have to be made. Era, region, road, type of operation, the list goes on. But, one must also place limits. Size of the available space being key. One of the most impressive 4x8 layouts I have ever seen in my 50 years in the hobby was a simple yard with a small industrial shipping area. More action than a pack of coyotes at a turkey reunion. 

The yard would build consists for the local switcher and the switcher would feed the yard with "empties" and full loads for the main. More fun than watching a blind man 'feeling' his way around a nudist camp. And just as exciting. At least you won't get your face slapped!!!lol


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## tjcruiser

Ha Ha !!!

Coyotes, turkeys, nudists, groping hands ... LOVE IT!

TJ


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## Komodo

thomashmaine said:


> why is that one so much cheaper? i am looking at the following ones and they are expensive
> 
> i am looking at the following ones
> 
> http://mthtrains.com/content/80-2001-1
> or
> http://www.broadway-limited.com/2128...nddcdccho.aspx
> or
> https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/item...000405&eq=&Tp=
> or
> http://www.athearn.com/Products/Defa...odID=ATHG67203


mth are always expensive. and of course there are various different dcc systems and detail. the more exspensive ones are usually better and have more detail ( or are bigger engines) like the sd70ace. i can't see the other 3 the links broke


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## mr_x_ite_ment

Bob, I always love reading your posts...you always have great info and I always agree with you! I would also have to say that you CANNOT beat a Kato engine (I only own one though)!

Thomas, I recently bought CSX and NS in the Bachmann line.  Bachmann trains are cheap. They can be noisy, although I feel they get quieter over time. They pull very well, imho...and they seem to be somewhat durable for the money. What I like is that they come with DCC On Board, all for a price of about $40 to $45 (I have bought some as cheap as $33 to $35). I know people say they are cheap...and they are...but I have had NO problems with them....AND I actually think the detail on them is very nice.

I know you said you needed sound too...so maybe Bachmann isn't for you. I would listen to all the advice Bob has given...he knows his business! Best of luck!

Chad


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## MacDaddy55

*The Book of Stationmaster!*

Bob you never cease to amaze me with your vast knowledge, catchy phrases and the fact you have more trains than Capt. Kangaroo(showing my age!)More fun than watching a blind man 'feeling' his way around a nudist camp. And just as exciting. At least you won't get your face slapped!!!lol :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Gotta start saving all this stuff so you can publish the first "Railroad Catch Phrases and Witticism's by Stationmaster Bob" Random House 1,500 pgs. 500 photos(that should be enough to cover a quarter of your rolling stock! Hey just thought of this T-man has his own Book with illustrations...why not you!!:laugh: :thumbsup:


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## blues90

Yes Bob does know his stuff. I can tell I've been there. 

My father started out in HO in the mid 50's and he had a pennline pacific and a tyco F7A and dummy B with 4 lighted silver streamline pass cars. 

He was big on penn line which later became bowser. 

My first loco was a Revell switcher diesel with a spring chain drive and then he got me Tyco steam loco kits. Not much detail back then. What I really didn't like on most steamers back then were the blind drivers with no flanges so they could make the 18 and 22" radius . Then Rivarossi came along and have a way of allowing the drivers to move side to side and make the turns. 

Much later on I was working and began getting my own loco's most were Athearn blue box which over the years got better detail or at least you could add detail parts and they had the correct hood width. I learnd later that Athearn F units had to large of windows and the wrong roof conture so I got some roco FP7's and then later stewart which for me were the best I ever had . 

I had Kato and Atlas RS and SW's & S-2's Stewart /Kato AS 16 and 616's , UB25's . I loved the older atlas GP-7's and RS2 because they had a metal frame and couplers that mounted to the frame like the S-2's and S-4's . I didn't like the body mount on the early RS and C424's and RS11's because the body seemed like it would sooner or later break off or the molded on grabs . I did get a few later Atlas RS and C424 then made in China with metal grabs correct wheel base truck to truck center and frame mounted couples. 
I had 4 of each Walthers SW-1's and H10/12-44 thought they were great loco's wish I kept at least one of each. 

Bachman spectrum GP-30 and baby trainmaster , still have the trainmaster . They ran well and pulled well. Even got several Rail power shells and frames yet their detail and castings were not all that great two were CF7's which were fair and a BB U boat that fit the Athearn frame perfect and did the high hood. 

I got into PK2's FA's and GP's and E8's , nice but I always had to replace the drive shafts with Athearn and some drive gears. They did run well and had detail and nice paint . 


Stewart VO-1000's I loved but couldn't pull a thing. 

Youn learn as you go , things change . I only had a 6x8 layout which I made modular and liked six axle units like SD40-2 and SD45's but they didn't look right on turns but ran them anyway. even the Athearn GP38-2 since they have a long body didn't do well as a double header of turns . 

There was always something new coming out and back then I could afford them and sell them . I had Tyco 2-6-6-2's three of them and did all the good detailing and painting on them as well as Roundhouse steamers from kits . I had to sell most of them and sell the track and all switches . I new I could never have a large layout or even a small on and afford all the buildings and scenery . 

At one point I got into Roco euro loco's and had about 20 of them all new and nice and cool loco's , this was on some whim that I would go that direction . Walthers catalogs can really get you hooked . 

I had Rivarossi 2-8-4's and mallet and cab forward and 0-8-0 and bigboy , 0-4-0 so on.


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