# Newbie, DCC controller/Sprog3 questions



## tullnd (Jan 3, 2018)

Hi,
I'm getting into the hobby after not having touched it in over 30 years since I was a kid. I'll be dabbling in HO only.

I'm taking my time designing a layout and putting off most purchases until I figure all this out, but was trying to plan out a few beginner options.

I'll preface this by saying I'm pretty technically literate and computer-savvy, so that side of the equation doesn't frighten me. My electrical wiring skills are....questionable at best. Wiring schematics are some kind of voodoo and make my brain melt. I prefer 1's and 0's. 

So my question is about the Sprog3. I'd like to buy it as a "starter" setup to use temporarily while I build and then use permanently as my "programming" unit. I have an available laptop I can place on the layout to use this for testing as I build and a PC at my workbench to use it with the programming track. 

Is there a hole in this logic? Some drawback I'm not seeing, by planning on using the Sprog3 with DecoderPro to do basic train programming? I understand if I want to do advanced sound programming, that takes a programmer for the corresponding sound decoder. But there's no issue with me going this route and maybe buying a NCC or ESU Cab Control(if they turn out to be a good option in a few months) for the actual layout, correct? Otherwise, I'll just not buy the Sprog and try to determine what DCC setup I'll need sooner rather than later. 

If the Sprog 3 is acceptable for this, I have a follow up question. There's a 14volt or 18.5 volt power supply option. I understand the 18.5 volt is really for larger gauge than HO, but at the same time, they kind of indicate it'd be ok for HO. It's only a few bucks, and as I understand it...the Sprog will adjust the voltage if it's set to HO, so there's no risk in purchasing the 18.5 volt power supply, correct? I figure may as well get it in case I get into another gauge in the future. 

I feel like I know the answers to these questions, but I'm just dipping my foot into the pool and want to confirm I've got a good grasp on how this all works. I'll have enough nightmares about feeder wires and reverse loops in the coming months, so I'd like to the rest of it to go smoothly.


----------



## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

If you run HO at the higher voltage, you are much more likely to fry the decoders. Since you are PC savy, you can run the layout with JMRI and the Sporg3. You don't need to buy an additional DCC system.


----------



## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Is there a 'common' voltage for different scales? I thought I had heard around 14V for N and 16V for HO? I'm also still trying to get a grasp on DCC as I grew up running 18V Tyco power supplies.

@tullnd -- if you really want to get overwhelmed, take a look at DCC++, where you can program arduinos for each of the components to build a DCC system. I have a controller up and running, still trying to figure out how to build a loco decoder though.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The N and HO decoders are designed to use the
same input voltage, around 14 volts modified AC.

That way you can use an N decoder that, because
of it's physical size, will fit in a limited space HO loco.

I tried Google for the Sprong3, and got odd 'toon'
character stuff. What is Sprong 3?

There is no complicated wiring with DCC.
No matter what DCC or custom controller you use,
you'll need only 2 wires going to the track. If you
have a large layout, track drops every 6 feet or
so connected to a bus from your controller
will assure smooth power distribution. Use red wire to right
rail, black to left (or colors of your choice) so as
to keep your phase (polarity) correct. 

You might want to consider starting out with a
commercially available DCC system from NCE,
Digitrax or MRC. They all are designed to meet
NMRA DCC standards. All are quality and choice
is personal likes. Get your layout up and
running. Then you can then add your own custom
digital gadgetry to accomplish your goals.

Don


----------



## tullnd (Jan 3, 2018)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Is there a 'common' voltage for different scales? I thought I had heard around 14V for N and 16V for HO? I'm also still trying to get a grasp on DCC as I grew up running 18V Tyco power supplies.
> 
> @tullnd -- if you really want to get overwhelmed, take a look at DCC++, where you can program arduinos for each of the components to build a DCC system. I have a controller up and running, still trying to figure out how to build a loco decoder though.


Well, I just figured I'd get the bigger power supply to have the capability to run higher gauge maybe in the future. I just wanted to verify there's no drawback. My understanding is that the Sprog3 will be set to HO as the gauge and will regulate the output accordingly, correct? So the default power supply is enough, the upgraded one just makes a difference if I select the larger gauge up that needs more power. Again, this is just the idea that...it's $5 now to get the one that has more capabilities. I don't see a drawback other than I may be "wasting" $5.

I've seen the arduino stuff. I use a lot of Raspberry Pi's, and looked into using those with arduino...but that lead me to the Sprog3, which for the money...I'd rather just start off with that lol. Seems like it'll work great as a programmer and give me a starter DCC setup.

Eventually, I could see the benefit of having a physical throttle dial and am intrigued by the Cab Control setup. I like the idea of an app for my phone...but I often use it as my phone or for other functions, so I don't want to depend on it for my only control interface or just the computer. That's why I think I'll eventually invest in a full DCC system.

As much as I enjoy tinkering...there's a part of me that just wants to get off the ground with this hobby first and not spend too much time trying to hack things together if someone else has already figured out a way to make it work. As I get more into it, I'll probably start digging into making my own switch controllers and such to save money and give a little more control.


----------



## tullnd (Jan 3, 2018)

DonR said:


> <snipped>
> 
> I tried Google for the Sprong3, and got odd 'toon'
> character stuff. What is Sprong 3?
> ...


Don,
Sprog3, no 'n' in it.

http://www.sprog.us.com/sprog.html#3

It's just a small device that interfaces to a computer and uses the JMRI software. Specifically it can use DecoderPro to do programming and then JMRI for "command station" control. You use the JMRI interface as your throttle, or you can run an iOS or Android app as well to be a throttle on phones/tablets. 

Again, I don't think it's an elegant solution for control, but I think it'd work great for programming and would be a cheap way for me to start out basic command functions, while I evaluate what I really want from a full DCC setup. I just liked that it's a cheap buy-in and I could continue to use it in my workshop as a programmer and could setup a full DCC system for the layout separately. Maybe I'm better off going straight for a DCC setup, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how big I should go to start.


----------



## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Most people don't want to mess around with all the programming and stuff, so no worries there. In my case, I'm still a long ways off from starting to set up a proper layout, so I have time to play.  Regarding the cost... yeah you can get arduinos that cost more than a raspberry pi, but you end up with something big and clunky. The chips I work with only cost around $3 and have wifi built in, so I have a bunch of them laying around.

Starting out with a working DCC system will give you an advantage. I'm putting pieces together here and just 'hoping' each part works, but I won't really know until I get a train on the tracks. Not the easiest way to approach a new project but it works for me. Maybe some day I'll have access to a loco with a commercial decoder in it and can test it out to see if it works with my setup, but for now everything I'm building will accept up to about 36V so I have no real concerns about the actual voltage level on my track.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Tullnd

Ah ha...sometimes one must open his eyes...thanks
for the correction.

I see what you are talking about.

I'll leave all of the computer control to you and the other
digital gurus here on the Forum.

As to POWER...if you are staying with N or HO the
typical commerical DCC system comes with a 1 or 2 amp
power supply.

Since an N or HO loco of current design draws a fraction
of an amp at typical layout speeds you can run 4, 5, 6
and more NON SOUND locos at the same time with no
strain on the power supply. My DCC is 1 amp and I
regularly run 3 2-loco consists at the same time.

Sound locos, however, draw much more current. Many
prefer the 5 amp booster if they have several sound
locos. 

There is a catch tho to having too much amperage 
on your tracks...a short circuit caused by a metal wheel
derail can send sparks and actually semi weld the wheel
to the rail. 

Going up to 0 Gauge brings in a whole new and very
different control system using regular AC on the 3 rail tracks
so your DCC or Sprog3 would not be suitable.

Going up to the very large G scale would require a
good amount of power possibly beyond what you would
want for your HO layout. 

I would suggest you start with an NCE DCC system that
comes with a 2 amp supply. It should be adequate
for your layout for some time to come. You can easily
add the 5 amp booster at any later time when needed.

Don


----------



## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Before going into programming for automatic operation, I assume that’s your interest, I would echo what Don suggests, get a starter system like the NCE PowerCab and a DCC loco. You can build a test track for yourself on a piece of 4 x 2 or similar with a couple of switches and familiarise yourself with DCC before delving into automation or building a larger layout. You can add boosters to all starter systems as your number of locos grows but 2 amps is fine for now.
I use a tablet or smartphone to control and program my layout over WiFi via a router. I like this a lot, maybe it’s something you also want to consider, if so you need to design for it from the outset. There are many cool features you can add.

Good luck, let us know how you progress.


----------



## tullnd (Jan 3, 2018)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the insight. I've still got a month or so before I need to make a DCC purchase. I'm gonna take my time with the layout setup. However, I'm pretty strongly considering your advice to get a more traditional setup to start. 

If anything, I think having a more common setup will mean it'll be easier for me to find assistance with any issues I run into.


----------

