# DCC for this 3x8 foot layout( What do I need)



## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

As posted I am going to post a track plan and would like to find out with DCC what do I need to make this work. Be it digitrax or another brand. Just the starter DCC set or are there other parts needed?

Or is this plan simple enough to wire as a DC layout. Fyi I will be using Kato Unitrack


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

HO ?
DCC with a DPDT toggle to the turntable rails. The long sidings could have on-off switches, to be sure a loco will not run when parked. Depending on turnout brand, you may need insulated rail joiners.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

Dennis461 said:


> HO ?
> DCC with a DPDT toggle to the turntable rails. The long sidings could have on-off switches, to be sure a loco will not run when parked. Depending on turnout brand, you may need insulated rail joiners.


Oh Sorry N Scale and will be using Kato turnouts, Only thing not Kato will be the turntable itself will be atlas


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You don't need any toggle switches. A DCC locomotive will not run unless you call up the address on the controller to run it. They don't just take off by themselves under DCC control.

All you need is the basic starter DCC kit to run the whole layout. Any brand will do.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> You don't need any toggle switches. A DCC locomotive will not run unless you call up the address on the controller to run it. They don't just take off by themselves under DCC control.
> 
> All you need is the basic starter DCC kit to run the whole layout. Any brand will do.


Do I need to insulate sections and add multiple feeders?


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> ....A DCC locomotive will not run unless you call up the address on the controller to run it. They don't just take off by themselves under DCC control.
> ...


 Unless you have fat fingers and a dual throttle on a cell phone


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

lstmysock112 said:


> Do I need to insulate sections and add multiple feeders?


You don't need insulated sections, you should install multiple feeders. At least three or four. Others will comment on how many.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dennis461 said:


> Unless you have fat fingers and a dual throttle on a cell phone


Exactly why every time someone gushes about how great it is to use a phone or tablet as a throttle, I try to bring them back to reality. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You do have a simple N scale layout. You could use only DC as a power source, but
you should not. DCC is the easy modern way to wire a layout and the easiest way to
operate a layout. Your one DCC controller can run 2 or 3 trains at the same
time with individual control of each.

Your Kata turnouts are 'flexible'. You can set them for power routing or not. 
For your track plan I would recommend they be set for non power routing.

Your layout is very good for continuous running trains. But, do consider,
how long do you want to sit and watch a train go around and around? One
does have a limit...but there's an answer for that...switching...using your
loco to move cars to various rail freight users...and to build trains...switching
adds something for you to do after the trains run a while. Add a few stub
tracks here and there to what you have.

Don


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Exactly why every time someone gushes about how great it is to use a phone or tablet as a throttle, I try to bring them back to reality. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


I for one have no desire to control this via my phone or tablet


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

DonR said:


> You do have a simple N scale layout. You could use only DC as a power source, but
> you should not. DCC is the easy modern way to wire a layout and the easiest way to
> operate a layout. Your one DCC controller can run 2 or 3 trains at the same
> time with individual control of each.
> ...


What is power routing?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Power routing means if you only supply power at the points end of the turnout, the route powered through the turnout, of which there are two for a conventional turnout (as opposed to a three-way, for example), is dependent on how the points are lined. You don't feed the closure rails beyond the frog, for example, so you rely solely on power beyond the points. If your points allow the diverging route, that route, only, is powered. If the points are lined for the through route, only that route is powered. This comes in handy on parking sidings where you might want a locomotive to sit, but not to draw power.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

lstmysock112 said:


> As posted I am going to post a track plan and would like to find out with DCC what do I need to make this work. Be it digitrax or another brand. Just the starter DCC set or are there other parts needed?
> 
> Or is this plan simple enough to wire as a DC layout. Fyi I will be using Kato Unitrack
> 
> View attachment 567919


This question has been discussed pretty thoroughly just recently (it's only 4 threads below this one in the list). Rather than rehash it all here, please review this thread: What is needed for first DCC setup?

Then if you have some specific questions that it didn't address, come on back and post them.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> This question has been discussed pretty thoroughly just recently (it's only 4 threads below this one in the list). Rather than rehash it all here, please review this thread: What is needed for first DCC setup?
> 
> Then if you have some specific questions that it didn't address, come on back and post them.


Is there other hardware needed to control remote switches? Also what about I know digitrax has I believe a pm24 that provides short cir protection.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

You may need some kind of "reverser" because having a turntable may introduce such issues.
(don't have a turntable, myself)

Either an "auto reverser" or perhaps a simple double-throw, double pole toggle switch.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

A DCC control system is designed to power only
the layout tracks. You will need another source of power for your remote control
turnouts, lights and other accessories There are two types of turnout motors...twin coil or
stall motor (Tortoise). 

Twin coil turnout motors are operated by a momentary
switch or push button. They use around 12 to 15 volts
AC or DC.

Stall Motor turnouts are operated by DTDP toggle
switches and must have 12 to 15 volts DC.

The turnout control buttons or toggles are usually mounted in
a panel which is often attached to the benchwork
fascia. Run a black common wire to each
twin coil turnout. Then you use a Red and a Green 
wire to each Twin coil turnout.

Each stall motor (Tortoise) turnout needs a 
pair of wires (any color) from the panel.

Your Digitrax DCC control system has a built in
circuit breaker. You would not need an external
circuit breaker. (these are used on very large
club type layouts.)

Many modelers use old DC power packs for their
turnout and accessory power. Others use wall warts
that have an output voltage of 12 to 15 volts and
either AC or DC as needed.

A turntable is what we call a 'Reverse loop'...that is
it turns a loco around. This causes an electrical
situation. Many turntables have a built in
circuit to resolve this. If yours does not, let us
know and we can tell you how to wire it.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

lstmysock112 said:


> Is there other hardware needed to control remote switches? Also what about I know digitrax has I believe a pm24 that provides short cir protection.


Depends on how you want to control them. To just use the Kato remote operated turnouts, you just need a power supply. If you want to control them using your DCC unit, you need a stationary decoder for each turnout. Believe it or not, I'm not a fan of it. I prefer to use my DCC throttle to control trains, and hit a button on the fascia to control turnouts.

Your DCC unit already has a built in circuit breaker. You do not need an additional circuit breaker unless you have an extremely large layout, so that at the far reaches of your layout, a short doesn't trip the breaker. You also might need one if you're operating a large layout with several different operators. You can divide your layout into blocks so that a short in one doesn't take the whole layout down and annoy other operators. For the layout you contemplate, this isn't necessary.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The digitrax circuit breaker is a PM42. Controls 4 circuits. Yoeu might look at the BXP88 which has 8 circuit breakers along with detection and transponding. While you can have everything on one circuit with DCC, I typically break things into isolated blocks. Even if they all get power form the same feed, it just helps isolate problems.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The complete contrast between my answer and lemonhawk's should make one thing perfectly clear -- there are lots of different ways to design, build, and operate a model railroad, and 99,9% of it is neither right nor wrong, but depends in your own personal preferences, risk tolerance, and so forth (and if you think track planning and wiring have a lot of contradicting views, wait until you get to building scenery). No one can tell you the "one true path" to creating and running your layout. You have to acquire knowledge and make your own decisions that work for you.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

*OP:*

Looking at your plan in post #1, it looks like ALL your switches are located at the front edge of the table, within easy reach of the operator.

I wouldn't bother with remote control.
I'd just reach forward and "throw 'em by hand" (like we used to do on the "big trains")...

If you "want power", you might consider using the Kato 24-840 turnout control levers. Find an old dc power pack (as mentioned above) to supply 15volt a.c. power, and use the Kato 24-842 dc converter to convert the ac to dc for use with the turnout control levers. These are literally "a snap" to connect together and they work quite well.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

Anyone ever make a train board that shows the layout and could install switches to match the switches on the layout? This way looks nice and anyone can figure out what switch control works what switch. Maybe a youtube video on how someone made one or a company that can make the faceplate.

Yes I will probably use a old DC transformer and use that to power the switches


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm going to create a turnout control board that has my layout mod podged to a thin piece of luan about the size of an 11"x17" ledger size paper.

I plan to mount the toggle switches in the correct places on the scales down layout.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> I'm going to create a turnout control board that has my layout mod podged to a thin piece of luan about the size of an 11"x17" ledger size paper.
> 
> I plan to mount the toggle switches in the correct places on the scales down layout.


How are you putting the layout design onto the piece of Luan?


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

lstmysock112 said:


> Anyone ever make a train board that shows the layout and could install switches to match the switches on the layout? This way looks nice and anyone can figure out what switch control works what switch. Maybe a youtube video on how someone made one or a company that can make the faceplate.


My layout is N-Gauge using Kato Unitrack. I made this control panel using switches from Ken Stapleton (751 SERIES ELECTRONIC TURNOUT SWITCHES). His switches have the proper electronics to work with Kato turnouts, but he also has switches for the brands that use two coil turnout controls. His switches also include the drivers for the LEDs to indicate which way the turnout is set. You can do it with just the toggle position if you are careful, but I find the light catches my eye easier. On each of my sidings and rail crossovers, I paired the turnouts so one switch controls both ends. I did this to avoid throwing one end and not the other, causing a short or possible derailment when the train goes through the wrong way. 

I did find this one works a lot better than trying to remember which switch controlled which turnout when i was just using all Kato switches in a row.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

Steve Rothstein said:


> My layout is N-Gauge using Kato Unitrack. I made this control panel using switches from Ken Stapleton (751 SERIES ELECTRONIC TURNOUT SWITCHES). His switches have the proper electronics to work with Kato turnouts, but he also has switches for the brands that use two coil turnout controls. His switches also include the drivers for the LEDs to indicate which way the turnout is set. You can do it with just the toggle position if you are careful, but I find the light catches my eye easier. On each of my sidings and rail crossovers, I paired the turnouts so one switch controls both ends. I did this to avoid throwing one end and not the other, causing a short or possible derailment when the train goes through the wrong way.
> 
> I did find this one works a lot better than trying to remember which switch controlled which turnout when i was just using all Kato switches in a row.
> 
> ...


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

lstmysock112 said:


> What ones would I need for Kato, Single coil? Looks like a lot of wires on one of those switches. What are they all used for? Any wiring information? What did you use to mark your control board for the track lines?


The Kato use the single coil switches. There are a few wires because you need two for power in, then two to go to the turnout, and a couple for the LEDs as output. IIRC correctly, without the LEDs, it just needs the four wires. When you order them, Ken includes the wiring diagram and instructions on how to build the switches yourself. Ken does not have an order form and just asks that you email him. You can explain what you are trying for and he will help make sure you get the right parts. My impression is that he is a very nice guy trying to make things easier for fellow hobbyists.

The switches do not come with the LEDs and I had trouble with the oens I bought from Ken. I think it was my fault because I was trying to solder them without heat sinks or anything. I bought some other LEDs off Amazon and they worked better for me. The wood is just 1/4" plywood, painted gray, with the layout drawn on it with a sharpie. Nothing fancy for the first layout.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

Steve Rothstein said:


> The Kato use the single coil switches. There are a few wires because you need two for power in, then two to go to the turnout, and a couple for the LEDs as output. IIRC correctly, without the LEDs, it just needs the four wires. When you order them, Ken includes the wiring diagram and instructions on how to build the switches yourself. Ken does not have an order form and just asks that you email him. You can explain what you are trying for and he will help make sure you get the right parts. My impression is that he is a very nice guy trying to make things easier for fellow hobbyists.
> 
> The switches do not come with the LEDs and I had trouble with the oens I bought from Ken. I think it was my fault because I was trying to solder them without heat sinks or anything. I bought some other LEDs off Amazon and they worked better for me. The wood is just 1/4" plywood, painted gray, with the layout drawn on it with a sharpie. Nothing fancy for the first layout.


Could you provide a link to the leds you used from amazon?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

lstmysock112 said:


> How are you putting the layout design onto the piece of Luan?


I am using AnyRail software to design my layout. You can print the entire layout onto one piece of paper (I'm going to use Ledger size (11"x17") paper.

I will print it on regular old copy paper, then will use spray adhesive to glue the piece of paper to piece of 1/8" or 1/4" plywood (luan). Then, I will add a layer of clear "mod podge" just to make it more water proof. This will become the surface of a wooded console that will house all the toggle switches for the turnouts that will be controlled with electronic actuators.

I will drill holes into the console in the same spots that the turnout will be so I can insert the toggle switches in the appropriate places.

This way I can actuate the turnouts based on a good visual reference of the layout.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

lstmysock112 said:


> Could you provide a link to the leds you used from amazon?


Sorry, my son ordered them and I do not have the link to them. I will see if I can get it next weekend when I am down there working on the layout.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Istmysock

(interesting but curious screen name)

The size of your layout could determine the
track plan you have on your layout.

For example, I had a room size HO DCC layout.
In addition to a single track mainline that basically
followed the walls, there were two fair size yards,
and a center section that had a small passenger
terminal and a number of freight spurs. There were
20 or so Peco twin coil turnouts involved.

I made a turnout panel for each of the yards and
another that controlled the center section. 

I used pressed wood panels about 12 X 12. Each
was painted in yellow. Then I used painters masking tape
strips to create the modified track
plan. I sprayed a contrasting brown over it all.
When the tape is removed your track plan is
very clear. 

To control the twin coil turnout motors and panel
plus track side signals, I used DPDT toggles plus
a momentary push buttons. This was an awkward
arrangement. If done today, I would use the 
Stapleton 751 D toggle switch which controls both
turnout motor and panel lights, plus it has
a built in Capacitor Discharge Unit to
protect your turnout coils from burnout.
They have a model for twin or single coil and
also for Tortoise stall motor units.

Don


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## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

I went even a different route (no pun intended). I used tape directly onto a hardboard fascia piece: 









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Buy GGR SUPPLIES T.R.U. CVT-536 Yellow Vinyl Pinstriping Dance Floor Tape: 1/4 in. Wide x 36 yds. Several Colors: Safety Warning Tapes - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



smile.amazon.com














Not as clean or professional as many others, but it will do the job. 

Installed are the two pushbuttons for the electromagnet uncouplers. The toggle switches to the right are for each of the Roundhouse tracks coming off the turntable (visible upper right in photo). That way I can kill DCC power to the tracks where locomotives are idle. When I begin the turnout automation, I will install the toggle/pushbuttons and LEDs over that simple yard plan. 

It is crude, but I'm not looking to get featured in a magazine. And as simple and low investment of time as it is, it will be fairly easy and doable to replace with something nicer in the future. Though I have noticed in my 61 years that temp installations tend to become permanent! 

Clearly not the 'best' option, but an option nonetheless. 

Steve J


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I used a plastic sign as the back board and then used evergreen structural flat pieces to make the track plan. Sprayed the whole thing black then colored the tops of the of the plastic to give it a nice 3d effect.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Sorry, my son ordered them and I do not have the link to them. I will see if I can get it next weekend when I am down there working on the layout.


Okay most grateful if you can, Hate to order something that will not work or work that well.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

DonR said:


> Istmysock
> 
> (interesting but curious screen name)
> 
> ...


Thanks and the screen name is the name of a horse from many many years ago. He had three white socks and one leg was all solid color instead of having a white sock, So that is how he got the name Lostmysock.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Is it supposed to be Its or Ist? The second version is Deutsch which would be followed by 'mein' or 'meine' depending upon the next word. In this case, 'sock' is normally considered feminine in German so the correct word would be 'meine'.

So which is correct for your screen name? I wasn't clear whether it is a mis-spelling or if indeed Deutsch.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> Is it supposed to be Its or Ist? The second version is Deutsch which would be followed by 'mein' or 'meine' depending upon the next word. In this case, 'sock' is normally considered feminine in German so the correct word would be 'meine'.
> 
> So which is correct for your screen name? I wasn't clear whether it is a mis-spelling or if indeed Deutsch.


Supposed to be LST as in LOST Second part My , I will admit the horse was a hannoverian cross, So at least part german lol.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Ach so, Lst no Ist.

Teildeutsch ist besser als kein Deutsch!


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> Ach so, Lst no Ist.
> 
> Teildeutsch ist besser als kein Deutsch!


Had to use a translator lol, I am just a 1/4 german. My grandfather came over from Germany around 1918. Still have cousins and all over in Germany. Fyi I do not speak german, Some words I know but a translator helps lol.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Nice to know a few German words like Liber when reading the menus, avoids getting a surprise dinner of Liver.


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## Crash (Dec 12, 2018)

lstmysock112 said:


> Do I need to insulate sections and add multiple feeders?


You need to be able to control trains in blocks? If so, you will need to use insulators. Your power should come from taps about every couple of feet for reliable feed.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

Crash said:


> You need to be able to control trains in blocks? If so, you will need to use insulators. Your power should come from taps about every couple of feet for reliable feed.


If I am running DCC then I guess I wont need to set it in blocks. I think that was only really done with DC wiring, Possibly just for yard and side tracks and power feed for each mainrail if diffrent lines. Other wise you would have to remove all loco's you did not want to move when you gave power. So you would kill power to sections to keep them from moving. But DCC works different then that.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

lstmysock112 said:


> If I am running DCC then I guess I wont need to set it in blocks. I think that was only really done with DC wiring, Possibly just for yard and side tracks and power feed for each mainrail if diffrent lines. Other wise you would have to remove all loco's you did not want to move when you gave power. So you would kill power to sections to keep them from moving. But DCC works different then that.


No blocks needed tor a layout your size. In DC, people used isolated blocks so they could kill power to different parts, or so they could run multiple trains at once. All this is unnecessary in DCC. You can run as many locos simultaneously as the amperage of your DCC unit allows, and if you want a train to park somewhere, just move it there and turn the throttle to zero.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Back to your question, I would highly recommend the NCE power cab system for your first DCC powered layout. It is simple to understand, wire, and everything you need to run your layout is in the box.(with the exception of the turntable wiring and/or control which depends on the make and model TT you are using) is expandable without obsoleting anything you bought previously, and the approximately 165.00 price tag makes it one of the more affordable systems. It is very dependable as well.
While Digitrax is a good system, it is purchased piecemeal so is a larger investment both in money and time to figure out what you need and how to hook it all together. Digitrax IMHO is aimed at large layouts and owners who want to be able to include every and any option or possible use. That complexity is what I feel is it's biggest achilles heel, with so many places things can (and do) go wrong, software bugs, and other issues. Just look at the User forums for both products and see how many posts are product and/or complex problem related. Again IMHO Using Digitrax DCC for your size layout is like using a windows 10 application to turn on and adjust the brightness of the lamp in your living room. Yes it is possible, but you're are going to have to buy a lot of other items, figure how to get them to talk to one another and will be tracking down and resetting lost connections every time there is a power blip or internet hiccup, for the possible advantage(?) that if you want to add even more expense and complexity to the system you can control that lamp from your bedroom or see if it's on or off from another country, as well as remotely talk to your dog and auto update your grocery list!?!? Whereas the NCE is like simply replacing the wall switch with a dimmer switch. It's easy to get what you need, comes in one box, simple to install and understand how to use, and works reliably for a long time.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Hear, here! scenicsRme hit the nail squarely on the head and drove it home in one blow. I chose NCE Powercab for my entry into DCC for all the reasons he so eloquently stated, and I'm a "happy camper". Now that I've made an easy and painless entry into DCC, I've developed enough confidence to experiment with Arduino and wireless control from an Android device, for very short money, I might add.
A couple of pointers. 1) You'll find performance is smoother and more reliable if you have power taps to your track every three feet or so along the line. I use 14 gage wire for a trunk line and 18 gage for the taps. The larger your wire and the more frequent your taps, the more consistent track voltage will be in all corners of your track plan. 2) I found the guys at Tony's Trains the most user-friendly of all the dealers I spoke with, as they spent over an hour on the phone with me, weighing the various options and tailoring their recommendations to my situation and preferences. They then offered me prices on three different systems (NCE, MRC, and Digitrax) lower than I'd seen anywhere else. I discovered (to my surprise) that their office was only forty miles away, so I went over and looked at the ergonomics and manuals of the three controllers. Powercab was the hands-down winner. Never looked back.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Since we've now decided to start giving ringing endorsements of the various DCC systems, I will say that MRC offers all of the capabilities and advantages of the NCE unit, with two important differences. First, it has a nice, robust throttle knob, instead of the somewhat fragile thumb wheel on the NCE. Second, the hand-held is bigger, which means a bigger display (nice for older eyes like mine) and the buttons aren't as crammed together. However, this can be a drawback, too, depending in the size of your hands. You won't go wrong with either, though.


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## lstmysock112 (Sep 28, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Since we've now decided to start giving ringing endorsements of the various DCC systems, I will say that MRC offers all of the capabilities and advantages of the NCE unit, with two important differences. First, it has a nice, robust throttle knob, instead of the somewhat fragile thumb wheel on the NCE. Second, the hand-held is bigger, which means a bigger display (nice for older eyes like mine) and the buttons aren't as crammed together. However, this can be a drawback, too, depending in the size of your hands. You won't go wrong with either, though.











MRC #0001420 Prodigy Express Squared


MRC #0001420 Prodigy Express Squared




www.trainworld.com





Something like this?


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I just included the two most popular systems that I'm most familiar with and have the largest support base. I'm sure there are others that are good or possibly even better, I just can't compare or comment on them. I recommended the NCE for the OP since they were readily available, well priced, well supported, easy to understand and could be upgraded to almost all the whistles and bells without obsoleting anything already purchased.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

All your switches (TOs) are at front edge..You can throw all seven by hand with Caboose Industries N scale ground throws. No motors needed..You have no reverse loops except the turntable..
Since you are DCC you have but 2 wires to the track from DCC throttle plug-in panel, period. 
You need one AR (auto reverse) wired into the leads for the turntable..This automatically takes care of the polarity reversal when the TT does a 180..
That's all you need for this simple RR...You only need to own DCC equipped locos and know how to program them...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

lstmysock112 said:


> MRC #0001420 Prodigy Express Squared
> 
> 
> MRC #0001420 Prodigy Express Squared
> ...


That's exactly what I started with, yes (although it wasn't the "squared" version back then). I've since upgraded to wireless.

My son has that one on his 8x8 layout, with two additional jacks installed so he can operate from any of 3 locations.


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