# Thoughts on my soon to be built 4'x8' N layout



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Well while the wife and I decide where to live and what not figured I'd blow the dust off things and build a little 4'x8' N layout. This way when we move I have something that can pretty much fit anywhere in a room til I can get back to the design and build of the big one. Thoughts?

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/...ew basement layout/n48x96temp_zpsd95258b4.jpg


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

nice, looks like a good working set up.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sawgunner said:


> Thoughts?


Think about it some more. 
I have seen you go through...what is it 3 builds? Or 2?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I like it too...looks like a lot of running and switching 
opportunities.

But as Ed said a different way...

Think twice Build once. 

Don


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

DonR said:


> looks like a lot of...switching opportunities.
> 
> Don


Switching what, though? He's got spurs where there's no room for an industry. I hate to say it, but it looks like an attempt to cram as much track into as small a space as possible. Sometimes less is more.

Steve S


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

It looks like a spegetti bowl, please take no offense to my comment. 

What are you trying to get out of this layout? What is your idea of running trains/idea of fun?
You have a bunch of dead end spurs that looks as if their will be no room for a industry to fit.

I am far from a layout expert but sometimes less is more.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

looks like all the track u can get on 4X8. could lose some spurs and put in turntable.


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

ok let look at less of a spaghetti bowl version 2 LOL. No offense has been taken to any posts.

I was in fact trying to cram as much as I could onto the 4x8 with plenty of switching and a folded dog bone long main with a short passing siding. However after looking at it and trying to make it have decent grades to be multi-height that just did not work for me based on where switches were. The switches will all be manual ground throws. it will also be wired for DC and DCC. anyways on to version 2


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

If you want lots of switching, you might look at the trackplan below that appeared in the April '75 issue of MR. You could have each section on either side of an oval for continuous running. Put a scenic divider down the middle to break up the fact that it's a loop.

http://home.comcast.net/~skytop35/Kingsbury/trackplan.html

Steve S


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Steve just wants to run some trains, he is starting to get the withdrawal shakes. 

What you need is 4, 4' x 8' tables.


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

The big one will be started after the track is laid for this one. Have a great plan for the big one just need the room to put it. Working on another plan for the 4x8 as well and I'm liking that one better pics of that when I get home from work aroung 4am lol


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Steve S- i like that small switching plan you posted, i may use some of that for my layout.

Sawgunner/steve- you did clean up the left side alittle bit on the plan #2 but it still seems slightly crowded. 

What size room are you putting this in? Obviously this room has to be bigger then 6x10 to fit a 4x8 layout, and even then at 6x10 thats somewhat tight so im guessing this room is bigger. If my thinking is right then you should have enough room for an idea of mine. 

Will you be against cutting your 4x8 sheet like the link below?http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OWJKbUUCx...ghkt8/s400/HOG+Foam+Cutting+Diagram+Large.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CYlJcBQDu...s1600/Heart+of+Georgia+HOG+Layout+Rev+511.jpg

I know i suggest this layout alot to people but honestly i really believe this provides alot more with less. You are still using a 4x8 sheet, but in a different manner. It provides you longer mainline runs which we all like, gives you plenty of switching, you could incorportate hidden staging, or atleast a hidden staging track or two... I would change the staging tracks like it is on the "hog" and make it hidden and use that area for a industry

You dont even have to use the "hog layout" plan, you can obviously alter it to your liking... And you say you plan to go big down the road, i really think a person can bang this type of bench work out fast, and get running trains quick using this style layout...

Just think about it steve, from the way uncle ed makes it sound, you have been trying to get something together for awhile now, im just trying to give you options since im the bad guy who doesnt like 4x8s


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

I am not against cutting a 4x8 however I am not sure exactly what size the room this one will be in is yet. We have not yet picked an apartment out that we both like. The big one will be built in sections at my dads house until I am done with school and move into the new place in Copperas Cove, TX (final move-to location) The house we will be looking at will be a build to suit so sky is the limit on the open concept Idea or as well as I take 2 of the 4 bedrooms for the trains LOL.

I like continuous running as well as switching (however I do not believe in the whole card thing) To me it is just pure enjoyment watching the trains run and moving cars around on the sidings. This next plan I like a lot and I found it on another site and had to go by a very loosely hand drawn sketch of the layout (what a PITA) so this was all guess work on what radius he used as well as switches and such. I did it all in #4's code 80 with flex where easier. It will probably have the mains done in flex and the spurs and what not done in sectional to not give the appearance of welded rail in those areas.

As Ed pointed out I go through Layouts and Ideas like a mad man and am never happy. I do have one plan for the big layout that I will most likely tweak once the size of space I have is decided but It was designed to go where all the others had been. I have been taking my time and tossing ideas into anyrail everyday before and after work then constantly browsing the internet looking for track plans that I like or parts that I like and trying to incorporate everything together.

This plan is is supposedly based on CSX around Detroit and has 2 active diamonds in it to add more fun to the layout. It will be mostly all industrial area and warehouses and yes there is room for them. I'm not going to link to the other forum nor take credit for the design other than I built it in Anyrail from his hand drawn sketch. That's all the credit I can take for this one. He used Uni-Track I used Atlas but will have Peco for the flex.

This one should be fun yet still easy to move around. 




and the big one for when we do the house (someone already stole this plan from me LOL)


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

sawgunner said:


> This one should be fun yet still easy to move around.


You've still got a lot of spurs with no purpose in life. Some are squeezed into such tight places that they aren't even useful as a team track. You could eliminate half the spurs on that plan and still have plenty of switching.

Steve S


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm sensing people don't like interchange tracks or storage tracks. If ya saw the pictures of this layout complete you'd see it more like I do. I'm not saying any of these plans are permanent. I still have loads of rolling stock that I don't want sitting in boxes. Did kinda buy them to run not sit in a box a look pretty. I still don't have any room sizes nailed down yet and moving in just got postponed again so not liking life. 

I like switching to keep me from getting bored so the more I got the better or I should just build em bland and sell em off. Maybe I'll tweak this more when I get home then make a bland version for the minimulist perspective. I have all the track and switches to do all this so why not lol


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

ok here is a very bland edition of the last one all yards and one interchange not too fun anymore


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Steve, if it's fun for you, then build it like you want. It is your railroad after all!!

After seeing the Buckeye Yard in action as a kid, I also like to stuff as much track as possible in an area.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

steve- no one here is haiting on your designs, we are only trying to help give you ideas, afterall you posted your trackplan for us to see so we are only offering our opinions to what will probably give you headaces down the road, and what problems we have encountered in the past...

Why on your simple plan that you made for us "simple people" is their only yards now, what happened to the industries, do you really need those yards? 

I understand you have alot of rolling stock, and you want to showcase them. Have you thought about maybe a cassete style yard that attaches to the 4x8? This would free up alot more room for industries to switch at, or even build some shelving and showcase your rollingstock on their until you can actually go crazy with the bigger layout you plan to have down the road.
Again, this is only my opinion so leave it at that.

If you like switching as much as you say why not design a "switching" layout?

How many different 4x8 layouts have you had in the past? What happened to them and why did you not like the designs? Did you learn anything from each of your layouts?


Again after all this is your layout, you will be the one operating the layout not us so if your happy with your plan well thats all that matters:sly:

Nobody is picking on you or trying to give you a hard time, so if you thought i was well i wasnt, and i can pretty much gurantee Steve S wasnt either, he was just trying to make you realize most of those spurs really were useless hwell:

I see you have a pretty decent layout design that acutally flows really well, Your "big one" layout, why not Build that middle section with the scenic divider with the yard and industries then when you can actually build the rest of it you can just build off of it and bolt it together. I think you can do some switching with that section, or even for the time being make both sections loop around so you can run in a circle?

What ever you decide, when you figure out what your gonna start building make sure you make a "my layout thread" 
I would like to follow along and see your progress


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

Steve, Let me know when you come to town. Even though your N and I am HO I'm thinking I can learn allot. Have you been here before? If not a heads up, if you have a place close by where you can get everything your going to need for the big layout, get it now before you get here. One small shop over in Harker Heights (20 min), another in Austin (hour+ drive) and the next closest one and the best I've seen in TX so far is in Dallas. The two close shops really don't have much at all for either N or HO and they are stocking less and less. I have been having to order most of the stuff I need for doing my second layout. If you need any more info about Cove if you have not been here before just let me know.


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Hey David I've been there before I was stationed at FT Hood for a while. I knew about Austin and Dallas but the one in HH eludes me. I know there was one on I think FT Hood St outside Ft Hood but never seen one in HH is it a new one?

I will be in the DFW just before Xmas was supposed to be there in a couple weeks but thanks to a couple clowns hitting my car I'm a little grounded til it get fixed which pushed starting school of til Jan 2 instead of Oct 24 #[email protected]!!!

Now as far as my current layout planning I didn't mean to imply that I was taking everything extremely critical against my plans and In looking at the plans it took me a minute but I saw all of y'alls critiques and you are all right there are way too many crazy spurs and sidings for nothing. So I have do a little revamping of things on the 4x8 to look a little more functional and more open for things.




Now as for starting to build the 4x16 part of the big layout the reason for not doing that is that I don't have the 16' at the moment and there would be far too many tweaks to make it continuous running just to turn it back to the rest of it but I did contemplate it very hard.

My LHS has tasked me with designing the new shop layout(s) which will include N, HO, On3, O, and S. (can ya guess how fun this is going to be???) The lower level will have the O, On3, and S the upper will have 2 separate layouts bolted together an HO and an N. The size of the lower table is 4'x14' with another one the same size next to it for slot cars. the HO and N will bridge the two lowers ones down the seem and will be total size of 4'x 12' combined HO and N. going to need help on those...... I know nothing of O and S scales and what can run on what


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

The shop in HH is called Hobby Center of Killeen, its actually its 3rd location depending how long ago you were here. It started on Ave D downtown, then to the loop around Killeen Mall and is now out on Stan Schlueter Loop. Kings Hobby is the one in Austin, but they are dropping stock little by little but I still stop in on any trip I make to Austin.
The one I go to in DFW is Discount Model Trains, its in Addison. They have a ton of stock in there. 
Still let me know when you hit town, looking forward to seeing your layouts.


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

When I get to TX I'll be taking trips down to the Copperas Cove area about every weekend as long as work allows for it. Got to show the wife around my old haunts in TX LOL. Will let ya know when we land and If ya want anything from the DFW stores let me know and I'll Bring it down to ya.

As for the Layouts I will be doing HO (Room sized) and N (Room sized) and possibly getting a G scale looping around the back yard if I can afford the track for it LOL. The houses we are looking at all seem to only come in 4 bedroom soooo 2 train rooms for me LOL


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sawgunner said:


> When I get to TX I'll be taking trips down to the Copperas Cove area about every weekend as long as work allows for it. Got to show the wife around my old haunts in TX LOL. Will let ya know when we land and If ya want anything from the DFW stores let me know and I'll Bring it down to ya.
> 
> As for the Layouts I will be doing HO (Room sized) and N (Room sized) and possibly getting a G scale looping around the back yard if I can afford the track for it LOL. The houses we are looking at all seem to only come in 4 bedroom soooo 2 train rooms for me LOL


First thing you got to do when you get there is to buy a 10 gallon cowboy hat. 
You can get the horse later.

Good luck down yonder. Steve. :smokin:


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

big ed said:


> First thing you got to do when you get there is to buy a 10 gallon cowboy hat.
> You can get the horse later.
> 
> Good luck down yonder. Steve. :smokin:


I;ve had the hats and boots for years LOL. Don't need a horse got hosrepower LOL


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

A couple of things I noticed about your latest plan. Your trains will have to run right through the yards. There should be some sort of through track so the trains can pass by without fouling the ladder tracks.

Also, you've got four runaround tracks in the upper left. You don't need that many. One on the inner loop and one on the outer loop should do.

Steve S


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

rrgrassi said:


> Steve, if it's fun for you, then build it like you want. It is your railroad after all!!.


True, but he also said he's been unhappy with his previous layouts. Perhaps there's a reason for that.

Steve S


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Steve S said:


> A couple of things I noticed about your latest plan. Your trains will have to run right through the yards. There should be some sort of through track so the trains can pass by without fouling the ladder tracks.
> 
> Also, you've got four runaround tracks in the upper left. You don't need that many. One on the inner loop and one on the outer loop should do.
> 
> Steve S





Steve S said:


> True, but he also said he's been unhappy with his previous layouts. Perhaps there's a reason for that.
> 
> Steve S


I've been looking at those issues as well. Will move some more stuff around and post another plan.

Now for the yards I am probably looking at trouble trying to make yard leads. The yard in the upper right corner was just going to be a staging yard that will be landscaped the lower center yard is the drop off point for the local service. not sure if I can finagle a lead there or not and keep my 11" radius main.

Got any suggestions on how to drop in a lead there?


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

tweaked it a little bit and added some buildings still a long way to go I thing


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## 05Slowbalt (Dec 19, 2011)

I like your idea. I know there is alot of track in a small space but if your going to add to this for the BIG layout you had posted then for now this mite just be what you need. You have some of the big started for when you have a house and at the same time you still get to play with trains lol.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sawgunner said:


> tweaked it a little bit and added some buildings still a long way to go I thing


I like this one. 
I see room for a couple more sidings. :smokin:


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## Steve S (Jan 7, 2012)

sawgunner said:


> tweaked it a little bit and added some buildings still a long way to go I thing


You've still got three runaround loops stacked on top of each other near the upper middle portion. The shortest one of those, near the yard ladder, is unnecessary. You've also got an 'S' curve in your yard ladder there. Just extend the ladder in a straight line.

Steve S


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Steve S said:


> You've still got three runaround loops stacked on top of each other near the upper middle portion. The shortest one of those, near the yard ladder, is unnecessary. You've also got an 'S' curve in your yard ladder there. Just extend the ladder in a straight line.
> 
> Steve S


Fixed


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## davidadelp (Sep 17, 2013)

I like the idea you have got with the layouts. I really like scenery and it don't look like u have much room for that but that's just what I like


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

much better from what you started with... now to the layout room you:hah:and get building


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

joed2323, I have a new idea in place and have the wifes full backing on it LOL to build my own train building when we buy a house after school in TX so I reread what ya wrote and all the suggestions on this thread and have had some fun altering things.

I have managed to incorporate this supposed to have been temp 4x8 layout into the big one (which got bigger LOL) The plan is not completely thought out yet but I still have plenty of time to get this one right (hard to believe me get something right LOL) but can also take the time to fine tune it and make it a layout that if anyone wants to come see or run it will be available to them. What are y'alls thoughts on this one (brace yourself!!!!)


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

First thought, its HUGE!!
Second what size building are you thinking about? A two car/three car garage or bigger?


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

going with a 28'x28' building that will house HO on bottom and N on top the layouts themselves will be about 24'x24' and have access on all sides


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

First thought - awesome

Now you moved up to the big boy layout size:appl:

Awesome job but seeing how much room you have why not throw that 4x8 idea right out the window

I almost think it looks silly that you have such nice runs and you still have a 4x8 roundy round in one section.?

Why not use that space wisely and make industrial district? I'd rather see that space have a purpose then having a awesome layout with a 4x8 in the made of it.

Too me out looks out of place 
You can do so much more with that space. Just think it over

Remember all good things take time. I would personally hold off on any 4x8 since you this awesome space coming to you


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Ya I noticed it kinda looks out of place but I also won't be having the space for the big one til after feb 2015 when school is done and I buy our house in Copperas Cove. so til then I need something to cure the fix LOL.

Will do some more work on it through this week end and post some different ideas for it as they come. It would be nice for this layout to have scenes from city, farm country, mountains and valleys on it but not quite sure if I will be able to get all of it in the way I would like. Also the lower trace part of the layout is not a sure thing that just places where the boards will be (for now) and lets me keep playing with things. I really wish I never took a break from the layout designing a few months back cause now it seems I have lost my edge on how I made the original portion of this layout. any thoughts and ideas welcome. let them rip cause I've got more space than I've ever had to play with trains LOL last big one was 23'x13' LOL


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Why not build a switching layout that way you can practice switching industries??

Couldnt you build a switching district say the space of 2 or 4 foot wide by maybe 8 foot long, but not with loops and yard tracks, just a few diff industries that you can use this to attach to your "big boy" layout?? To me this seems like the most logical idea but again everyone thinks differently then one another and in the end you gotta live with it not me.

Congrats on the big move coming up.. Ive you dont mind me asking How old are you, or are you and older gentlemen going back to school??


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

I'll try a couple ideas out on the comp and post them thanks! I do want it to be an end table so it will have a 180* on it and be divided like the other one is. 

This move has been a long time coming never should have left TX in the first place!! 

As for my age I am 31 and have done numerous things for work but I always loved doing body work so after school is done I will be certified in all manners of collision repair as well as cutomizing


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

You have me beat by a year on the age.
Congrats on finding the career you like doing, my father in law owns a body shop and has been doing it his whole life, he's good at it and takes pride in his work.
Its good to find people that take pride in their work.
Anybody can throw down a coat of paint but it takes skill to do it with no flaws.

I really think you should be building a smaller portion of your bigger planned layout that way you can carry it over to the upcoming future layout.


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## 05Slowbalt (Dec 19, 2011)

Good another auto person. I went to college for Auto Tech. The funny part is I have a very small shop but my real full time job is retail management. Funny how sometimes you don't do what you go to school for.


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

ok quick ditty before I have to get ready for work. here is the "basic" layout shape design.( this may be modified in the future)


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Now that's a big really interesting layout Sawgunner.

I'd add a passing siding on the lower arm though. Sure would make
running trains in opposite directions on that single track
main a lot easier. 

One other thing you might consider: A bypass of the center arm
so you can do switching there without interference from trains on the
main.

Don


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Agreed with donr

Much better design. I like that there is no lil 4x8 jammed into a section.

You have lots of options with this one, always good to have options.

I like it start building..........yeah yeah... I know we gotta wait


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## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

DonR said:


> Now that's a big really interesting layout Sawgunner.
> 
> I'd add a passing siding on the lower arm though. Sure would make
> running trains in opposite directions on that single track
> ...


This layout is far from finished in the design stage LOL. There will be a double main all the way round as well as numerous crossovers to change between. not sure about the cut offs think it would be more interesting to have the through trains have to wait for the local to switch or just run around it through crossovers. we shall see how this thing plans out. Also looking for a house around Copperas Cove that has an acre or more of land so I can build the train room (building)


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