# Lionel question



## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

I bought a '53 lionel 2-4-2 and it wont run with my new lionel power supply (17va). It pops the breaker. I heard I need at least 30 watts to run the older trains. Any thoughts?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Hi and Welcome. A 2-4-2 should be a Scout a 249,2034 or 1130.COuld you tell me the cab number? It does run on AC so my next question is the Tranformer breaker or your service panel breaker? Please tell me the model number on the transformer. SInce you are exact with 1953 it must be a 1130. CHeck that the drum to the eunit is not broken or crooked.

Do any of these look familiar?


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*1130*

Yes, its an 1130. You know your lionel stuff. My tansformer says 17va, I assume thats 17watts and at 115v thats a little above 1/8 amp which is nothing. My power pack is one of those with a lever on the top, made in the 90's for a 3 position engine. I'll check those items you mention but I believe the engine is toast.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

VA may be DC. 17 sounds like G scale transformer. Lotsa power. Normal Transformers are around 7VA. The 1130 e unit may not like DC. There are still some if's.


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*transformer*

Its a lionel transformer, type 4850 & 4851, output says 7-19vac and 6-12volts dc 12va. Now how can there be both voltages? Front of controler says AC current only 7-19


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Just for fun. You have four terminals Two for the track and two to run accessories. Attach two wires to the accessores and test the engine. Touch a center wheel and an outside wheel. If it clicks hold it upright and try again.

Are your other engines a Laser, 8902 or 8903?


I think you misread the 4880 is actuallly a 4660 a DC tranformer, one was actually listed on ebay as a 4880!! My first picture is the 4660.
If you cycle the eunit and Flip the switch to turn it off, it may run on DC


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*Transformer*

Those numbers I gave you are correct. I'll put it on a scope tonight and then know for sure what the voltage is.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OK with two posts it should be AC. Does the Sante Fe have a can motor?
In other words does it have a magnet to generate a field and looks like a can. I am not up on the new stuff.


Are you ready for an 1130 crash course?

First you check the e unit. This one is green.









Next do a visual on the brush area. Is is Oily or clean?









General condition on the bottom









Condition of the gears.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Shell removal*

BEFORE YOU REMOVE THE SHELL TRY MOVING THE DRUM ON THE EUNIT WITH A SCREW DRIVER IN THE UP DIRECTION.

After taking pictures the engine got touchy when I tried to run it. Moving the drum worked. The lever lets you shut off the reversing feature. This lever points down. In other engines it points up out of the boilers.Just move it by a tooth.









A dirty one from a 520









The top screw









Two bottom screws









Two sides screws. 









Undo the rods










Undo the tow bar









The engine is ready to test.


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*1130*

I cleaned it and it works. Thanks. just how exactly does the reversing, stop, forward feature work?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The lever on the underside contacts a pin for the rotation to work. Just slide it to the other side to keep the direction it is in. When breaking in a track it is best to turn it off and just go forward.
By any chance do you have a cast boiler? These are considered rare.


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*Boiler*

I wish it was cast. A guy here just bought a new set and it is cast, did they start making them cast again? On the other question about reversion, I wanted to know technically how the reversing a/c motor works, not the switch.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

My motor theory is weak. To run the motor Pos is connected to one brush and second brush is connected to coil and coil to ground .Direction is determined which brush is fed the pos and the rotation of the windings on the armature. The DC motor uses magnets not a coil. You have a three dimensional lines one is current, magnetic field and force That makes a motor work. With ac the coil generates the magnetic field. The field alternates with the current. That is why DC can run an AC motor. DC is only one direction.

Cast got scarce in the 70's but a demand keeps it around. The 1130 was one of the few plastic steamers of the time. The diesels were plastic. The 2034 is cast and is the same as the 1130 shelland the same time period..


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## johnfin (Nov 28, 2009)

*Motor*

Are you sauying that the motors used in lionel trains are DC?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

They can be used with DC.
But with the coil you cannot change direction like a DC motor when you change polarity.
A bridge rectifier over the coil would fix that. You would not need the e unit but you cannot have a conventional whistle it will stay on.


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