# Bachmann locos



## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm in the process of coming back to model railroading after 13 years outdoors in G scale. I was hoping to get into HO but after racking my brain I really can't come up with more than a 2x7 area. I'm now looking at N and I would like to get some opinions on the reliability of Bachmann N scale locos. I know that in years past they had a bad rep but what about their current models? Thanks in advance.


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Hi Gramps. I am certainly no expert, but I own two(??) Bachmann locomotives. A GP40 from the Thunder Valley set, and an F7 that I just picked up yesterday. I also have what I believe is a Kato GP38-2, but that one I think is about 20 years old. Not sure. But my reviews are.....the Kato, even being considerably older still runs just as well as my 3 month old Bachmann GP40. The GP40 is loud, the headlight is not great, but runs pretty well. The GP38-2 even given it's age runs just as well, and is much quieter, and the detailing is a tad bit better. But, I believe it to be a Kato. Now the new F7, Someone said it was a Bachmann, but the bottom says Trix. But, it does have the Rapido couplers and I believe Bachmann uses the knuckle couplers. But the shell could have been changed and that would mean it is a Bachmann body, but a Trix drive. And that one is very quiet, very smooth, very fast. Not indicative of Bachmann. Have to get a newer speed controller for it. Too quick. I must add here though, in my searching for N scale stuff, I have found that only the larger chains (i.e. HobbyTown USA, Hobby Lobby, etc.) carry a lot of Bachmann stuff simply because of the quality rep.
As for me, I don't see the performance of Bachmann any less. But the down sides I do see: They are loud. They are not the highest details. And if you ever have to change the coupler on a Bachmann N scale car......you will want to swear off trains forever.
That is the extent of my vast wealth of knowledge accumulated over the long span of three months in the hobby. Well, about Bachmann locomotives anyhow......


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## geo61bird (Mar 1, 2016)

http://www.spookshow.net/locolist.php?diesels=6&steam=1&traction=2&nonbrass=3&sortby=3&Submit=Submit

best guide ever!


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

@Gramps...if your only space available is 2ftx7Ft then don't give up on HO so fast. There is plenty you can do in that space in HO. Use Google to find small space layout plans....use phrases like " HO switching layout plans" " small space ho shelf layout plans". Things like that.

Here are 2 links to start you off with....the first is a video of a 1ftx8ft layout





And this has some interesting stuff on it
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/224915.aspx


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

geo61bird said:


> http://www.spookshow.net/locolist.php?diesels=6&steam=1&traction=2&nonbrass=3&sortby=3&Submit=Submit
> 
> best guide ever!


Lists like these are helpful, but I can't stand it when you cannot sort / filter them like a spreadsheet to narrow down your focus. So I made one for you all here! 
View attachment Spookshow_loco_list.zip


Glad to see my Kato EMD F40PH is graded an "A" too! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2016)

Gramps, the newer Bachmann N scale locos with DCC on board are good quality. I like their steam engines a lot but even the diesels are better than they used to be. They are generally quiet, smooth runners that will run slow just as well as they do fast. I don't know about their DC only locos as I don't have any but in my experience the ones with DCC are good quality.


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## Tony35 (Mar 18, 2016)

+1 on Spookshow for reviews


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Thanks for the responses, particularly the ratings list. Bachmann seems to come out pretty well.

My original idea was to do an HO switching layout and I did some searches. I found a Gateway Central XV that I liked and was going to try that. Then I thought I would like a little more running room so I'm thinking about N. 

Thanks again for the information and advice and video.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Messing around with Bachmann stuff is playing Russian Roulette with trouble. In my 45 years of experience, I have only seen one Bachmann that runs anywhere near as well as an Atlas or Kato, and that is a new GP-50 I just acquired. All my other Bachmann locos just run pretty fair. Always try to find what you are looking for in a Kato first, then if no Kato exists, Atlas or Con-Cor. Nothing, I repeat, nothing runs like a Kato !

The hierarchy of makes I have had experience with, from best to worst, is as follows:

1. Kato
2. Con-Cor
3. Atlas/Rivarossi
4. Bachmann
5. Model Power & Life-Like (both are pretty lousy)

And I have been really perplexed by steam locos in N, most of them do not run as well as they should. The only ones I currently own that really run well are two recently acquired current Atlas Shays, and an ancient Atlas by Rivarossi which I upgraded with a 5-pole motor in 1992.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Oh yes, and avoid the Atlas Davenport switcher at all costs, Atlas really went to the bad on that one !


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

The noisiest DCC locos I own are 6 Kato F3/7s. My Kato SD70s trucks fall off just taking them out of the box. Kato couplers are the worst ever, and need to be replaced with MT. Kato still uses a old school high speed motor, if you want them to run as well as a Atlas loco, you need to replace the Kato motor with a Atlas scale speed motor.
If your referring to running great at over 200 SMPH then I guess one could say, "nothing runs like a Kato".


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

rrjim1 said:


> The noisiest DCC locos I own are 6 Kato F3/7s. My Kato SD70s trucks fall off just taking them out of the box. Kato couplers are the worst ever, and need to be replaced with MT. Kato still uses a old school high speed motor, if you want them to run as well as a Atlas loco, you need to replace the Kato motor with a Atlas scale speed motor.
> If your referring to running great at over 200 SMPH then I guess one could say, "nothing runs like a Kato".


I have several conventional Katos, and these are actually geared lower than any N scale locos I have seen before, and will smoothly creep from one tie to the next, and very smoothly operate at realistically slow speeds. Smoothest running locos I have seen. Two of these are F3s. And they are equipped with what appear to be MT couplers which work fine. I dunno how you got those dogs you describe, that is so odd ! Maybe Kato went to the dogs on their digitals ? I have two RS-11, a pair of F3s, two GP-50s, and a pair of E-8s which run flawlessly. They run as though they were equipped with fine precision 5-pole motors.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

wsboyette said:


> Always try to find what you are looking for in a Kato first, then if no Kato exists, Atlas or Con-Cor.


Well, the spookshow list _does _seem to support this theory, showing Kato and Atlas models having the most "A" grades over any others...


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

wsboyette said:


> I have several conventional Katos, and these are actually geared lower than any N scale locos I have seen before, and will smoothly creep from one tie to the next, and very smoothly operate at realistically slow speeds. Smoothest running locos I have seen. Two of these are F3s. And they are equipped with what appear to be MT couplers which work fine. I dunno how you got those dogs you describe, that is so odd ! Maybe Kato went to the dogs on their digitals ? I have two RS-11, a pair of F3s, two GP-50s, and a pair of E-8s which run flawlessly. They run as though they were equipped with fine precision 5-pole motors.


I own over 300 N-scale locos, and have done a lot of work getting my Katos to run as well as my Atlas. Even Life Like split frame E8s run better at slow speeds than Kato E8s. RS11s are Atlas, and the Kato GP50 were terrible locos, super high speed, and lousy electrical pickup. All one has to do is to take a look at the Kato motor, it is a old school high speed motor, with straight poles.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

It's interesting how this works...kinda like with cars. If one likes Fords, they tend to have good luck with Fords, same for Chevys, Dodges, or whatever brand. 

Most of us with Kato locos find high quality in them, but those with Atlas, Life-Like and others seem to have success with them. 

I wonder how much of it has to do with attitude and product loyalty? :stroke:


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

rrjim1 said:


> I own over 300 N-scale locos, and have done a lot of work getting my Katos to run as well as my Atlas. Even Life Like split frame E8s run better at slow speeds than Kato E8s. RS11s are Atlas, and the Kato GP50 were terrible locos, super high speed, and lousy electrical pickup. All one has to do is to take a look at the Kato motor, it is a old school high speed motor, with straight poles.


Well, I've not owned very many locomotives, and have apparently been very fortunate not to end up with dogs such as you have. Yours run horrible, mine run as fine as any locomotive could possibly run; could it be that there was a production/design change for the worse (or better), resulting in us having different generations of the same loco ? Now mine are not DCC equipped, are yours ? Could be that yours are a later generation, on which Kato went sour ? Happens with the best....


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Oh, RRJim1, I just checked my two Kato RS11 units in a lashup, at half full throttle they are only doing around 30-40 SMPH. So they are properly geared for their prototype, it seems. I have a strong suspicion we have two different generations of that model.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

wsboyette said:


> Oh, RRJim1, I just checked my two Kato RS11 units in a lashup, at half full throttle they are only doing around 30-40 SMPH. So they are properly geared for their prototype, it seems. I have a strong suspicion we have two different generations of that model.


Kato never made a RS11s with the Kato name they were made for Atlas. I own original first run Atlas RS11s and the lastest run Atlas RS11s. The original Atlas RS11s top speed was well over 200 smph. The Atlas RS11 top speed is around 75-80 smph. Kato never made a loco that the top speed was only 30-40 smph, more like 230+ smph. I have been in N-scale for over 45 years and I own loco from 1970 to 2016. Sounds more like your locos run horrible, mine run just fine even Katos with a much better Atlas scale speed motor!


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

rrjim1 said:


> Kato never made a RS11s with the Kato name they were made for Atlas. I own original first run Atlas RS11s and the lastest run Atlas RS11s. The original Atlas RS11s top speed was well over 200 smph. The Atlas RS11 top speed is around 75-80 smph. Kato never made a loco that the top speed was only 30-40 smph, more like 230+ smph. I have been in N-scale for over 45 years and I own loco from 1970 to 2016. Sounds more like your locos run horrible, mine run just fine even Katos with a much better Atlas scale speed motor!


Uh, you might want to re-read my last reply, Jim. Not trying to be sarcastic or anything but is important to note that I reported my RS-11's were running a scale speed between 30&40 SMPH at _Half_ throttle. They run about twice that at full throttle, so that gives a top speed of between 60 & 80 SMPH. I must confess that I am mystified by your statement that my locos are running horrible, after having reported how smoothly they are performing from a dead slow crawl to top speed. But you are correct, these units were made by Kato. And the Kato F3s and E8s run just the same as these, but have a slightly higher top speed. And you never did tell me whether yours are DCC or conventionally operated; so I am still in the dark as to whether there might be a major production difference between yours and mine.... This is a most intriguing anomaly !


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Oh Jim, I see I must have confused you with my fuzzy wording; I wrote "half full throttle" in my previous post. I intended to say "half of full throttle" My mistake !


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Here is a video of the RS-11 lash-up running on test track....


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## jargonlet (Dec 21, 2011)

I've had both good and bad running kata and atlas locos over the years. Let's try not to turn this into a this brand is better discussion. 

Some of my best locos are my bachmann steamers. Either one of my B&O EM-1 can pull close to 90 cars on flat track with no problems. It puts a bit more stress on the loco and I am happier running with about 70 on the rare occasion I do get to run on a layout that size. Be careful buying used bachmann locos. I'm not sure how they handle used locos that don't work. I have only had one need to go in for warranty work and I own 9 bachmann steamers. I shot this video earlier today to show the new Broadway Limited M1a but it does show the new Bachmann K4s. Remember it's always best to test a loco before you buy it.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

wsboyette said:


> Oh Jim, I see I must have confused you with my fuzzy wording; I wrote "half full throttle" in my previous post. I intended to say "half of full throttle" My mistake !


Your wording is "Fuzzy" and your smph is way off. Almost everyone that has been in N-scale model railroading for awhile knows that the original Atlas RS11s top scale speed at 12 volts DC is more than double your stated 80 smph.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

jargonlet said:


> I've had both good and bad running kata and atlas locos over the years. Let's try not to turn this into a this brand is better discussion.
> 
> Some of my best locos are my bachmann steamers. Either one of my B&O EM-1 can pull close to 90 cars on flat track with no problems. It puts a bit more stress on the loco and I am happier running with about 70 on the rare occasion I do get to run on a layout that size. Be careful buying used bachmann locos. I'm not sure how they handle used locos that don't work. I have only had one need to go in for warranty work and I own 9 bachmann steamers. I shot this video earlier today to show the new Broadway Limited M1a but it does show the new Bachmann K4s. Remember it's always best to test a loco before you buy it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlW_hDCckqU&feature=youtu.be


I also own a M1b, it has to be one of the best running steam locos that I have owned. I also own a EM1, H4, and a Berk, they all run really well.


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## jargonlet (Dec 21, 2011)

rrjim1 said:


> I also own a M1b, it has to be one of the best running steam locos that I have owned. I also own a EM1, H4, and a Berk, they all run really well.


I don't have the Berkshire but have run one a bit. It ran well but couldn't pull a lot. The H4 lacks pulling power but other wise a nice engine. A little bullfrog snot will help that tremendously. I have a 3 of the consolidations and all but one runs well. It may just need cleaned and oiled. The only one that I had to send back was one of the J classes. The one they sent me to replace it was better but not up to the quality of the others. I ended up selling it as I bought it on a whim and was never going to use it. It ran ok at speed but running slow didn't work too well.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Bachman locos*



Gramps said:


> I'm in the process of coming back to model railroading after 13 years outdoors in G scale. I was hoping to get into HO but after racking my brain I really can't come up with more than a 2x7 area. I'm now looking at N and I would like to get some opinions on the reliability of Bachmann N scale locos. I know that in years past they had a bad rep but what about their current models? Thanks in advance.


Gramps;
I just had a look at the excellent guide posted by Geo61bird. Bachman locos ranged in grade from B to F. Kato locos got straight A's! That confirms my opinion, based on experience. Kato has yet to make a bad locomotive. All their engines are excellent. Bachman is pretty much a guessing game. They make a few decent running N scale locos, and many duds. Recent Bachman production has seen much improvement in their HO scale locos. N scale, somewhat less. There are also Bachman N scale locomotives that are still using 30 year old(poor) designs.
my advice, go with Kato. They are more expensive, but well worth it.

Traction Fan


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

traction fan said:


> Gramps;
> I just had a look at the excellent guide posted by Geo61bird. Bachman locos ranged in grade from B to F. Kato locos got straight A's! That confirms my opinion, based on experience. Kato has yet to make a bad locomotive. All their engines are excellent. Bachman is pretty much a guessing game. They make a few decent running N scale locos, and many duds. Recent Bachman production has seen much improvement in their HO scale locos. N scale, somewhat less. There are also Bachman N scale locomotives that are still using 30 year old(poor) designs.
> my advice, go with Kato. They are more expensive, but well worth it.
> 
> Traction Fan


Kato never made a bad loco, now that's a joke. Kato is still using there old school high speed motor that is well over 50 years old, the Kato F3/7 are the loudest locos that I own. The GP38/50 were terrible running locos, surged at slow speeds while pulling a train. The new SD70 trucks fall off just taking them out of there box. I could go on but you should get the picture. Yes, Kato also make some good running locos, but they also made some bad ones. 
The Bachmann NW2 has way better slow speed running than a Kato NW2 and that kind of important being a switcher!


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## jargonlet (Dec 21, 2011)

It's fine if you want to argue over which is better: atlas or Kato. Could you please take the argument elsewhere. The original poster came here looking for information on Bachman locos not an argument over two brands that weren't in the criteria of the first post.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

jargonlet said:


> It's fine if you want to argue over which is better: atlas or Kato. Could you please take the argument elsewhere. The original poster came here looking for information on Bachman locos not an argument over two brands that weren't in the criteria of the first post.


The disagreement was about if Kato locos were the best, which I feel there not! I do agree that the post about Kato locos should have never been posted in the first place. Now back to Bachmann locos!


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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

rrjim1 said:


> The Bachmann NW2 has way better slow speed running than a Kato NW2 and that kind of important being a switcher!


This is extremely important for me to know since I am in the market for one. I do believe that I will try a Bachmann switcher and see how it goes. I hope it does as well as my Atlas MP15DC switcher, which I love.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Never Get Old said:


> This is extremely important for me to know since I am in the market for one. I do believe that I will try a Bachmann switcher and see how it goes. I hope it does as well as my Atlas MP15DC switcher, which I love.


Go here to check out a good review.

http://www.spookshow.net/locolist.php?diesels=6&nonbrass=3&sortby=4&Submit=Submit


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## VegasN (Mar 14, 2016)

Ah yes.....everyone wants a melting pot, but we want our own recipe.


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