# Redoing my yard



## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I've begun redoing my yard. I had trouble with a few switches and was too small; it never worked to my satisfaction. I don't have a lot of room to work with - I currently can fit about 16 cars.

I printed out the Peco templates to experiment with different options. The ladder option seems nice; I can fit about 20 cars. Another option is a threeway turnout (which I already have) with three wyes at the end of each turnout, plus another turnout. This will give me room for about 24 cars.

Are there other options I should be considering? 

Also, my layout is DCC. Should I use Electro or Insul frogs?

Mike


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You can use either one on your DCC layout.

Unless you have small 4 wheel locos or older
locos that do not have all wheel power pickup
you can use the Peco Insulfrog. The Electrofrog
Pecos can be used if you have those less than
perfect locos.

I have 20 Peco Insulfrogs and 9 DCC locos. Not
one so much as flickers going thru the Pecos.

Don


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## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

DonR said:


> You can use either one on your DCC layout.
> 
> Unless you have small 4 wheel locos or older
> locos that do not have all wheel power pickup
> ...


Thanks Don R. I will only be using my Switcher (8 wheels if I understand you correctly, two sets of four wheels each), and the small Peco turnouts (4).


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Compond ladder?*



MikeL said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've begun redoing my yard. I had trouble with a few switches and was too small; it never worked to my satisfaction. I don't have a lot of room to work with - I currently can fit about 16 cars.
> 
> ...


MikeL;

Since you're short on space, (Aren't we all!) you might consider using a compound ladder, or a shortened ladder. The term ladder refers to the string of turnouts at the entrance to a rail yard. Ladders take up a lot of room, often 30-40% of a yard's overall length. That means shorter tracks, and therefore less car storage capacity. Shortening the ladder can help. Two common methods are using a compound ladder, or physically shortening the ladder by cutting the turnouts shorter. The compound ladder has one turnout feeding two strings of other turnouts. (sometimes three using a three way turnout) Doing this shortens the length of the ladder, at the expense of widening it some. I don't know if you have the width to spare. You can find out by connecting your turnouts in two strings, one with all left-hand turnouts, and the other with all right-hand ones. This helps avoid "reverse curves" in the yard ladder. They can cause derailments. [Strictly speaking, these reversals in direction aren't curves, since Peco #4 turnouts don't have curved track in them, like some Atlas turnouts do. However any track arrangement that requires the cars of a backing train to jog left and then right can cause similar problems. All backing movements should be kept as straight, and simple, as possible.] These two strings of turnouts should be connected to the two diverging routes of one "master"turnout, (a wye turnout with two straight routes at equal angles is ideal for this.) with the diverging tracks of all turnouts facing inward, This means a train will pass through one route of the master turnout and then through the straight routes of all others, until it reaches the designated yard track.
A shortened ladder is just that, shortened. Most of the track beyond the frog, and before the points, is cut off. I used this system on the tracks of my passenger station. I had the advantage of making my own turnouts from scratch, so I built the entire ladder as one piece. With commercial turnouts, like the Pecos you have, you would need to do some careful cutting with a Dremel tool. If you decide to try this, I recommend marking the cut locations, and then clamping the turnout between two pieces of soft wood, in a vise. This will keep the rails firmly in place when you cut, and avoid damage to the turnout. Another company, Micro Engineering, now sells a ladder system made up of factory-shortened turnouts. 

Regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

P.S. I'm a bit confused by your description of " three wyes at the end of each turnout," A wye is an arrangement of three tracks, connected by three turnouts, forming a triangle of track. It's used to let a Loco, or short train, turn around. I'm guessing you may be referring to three wye turnouts. One connected to each leg of your three-way turnout. Is that correct? If so, you are already using a form of compound ladder.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MicroEngineering is offering #6 ladder tracks which allow much closer spacing of tracks and turnouts than using standard turnouts (each turnout has a piece of track which co nects to the previous turnout in the ladder).

You might want to see if those will help in your situation.


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## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

traction fan said:


> MikeL;
> 
> Since you're short on space, (Aren't we all!) you might consider using a compound ladder, or a shortened ladder. The term ladder refers to the string of turnouts at the entrance to a rail yard. Ladders take up a lot of room, often 30-40% of a yard's overall length. That means shorter tracks, and therefore less car storage capacity. Shortening the ladder can help. Two common methods are using a compound ladder, or physically shortening the ladder by cutting the turnouts shorter. The compound ladder has one turnout feeding two strings of other turnouts. (sometimes three using a three way turnout) Doing this shortens the length of the ladder, at the expense of widening it some. I don't know if you have the width to spare. You can find out by connecting your turnouts in two strings, one with all left-hand turnouts, and the other with all right-hand ones. This helps avoid "reverse curves" in the yard ladder. They can cause derailments. [Strictly speaking, these reversals in direction aren't curves, since Peco #4 turnouts don't have curved track in them, like some Atlas turnouts do. However any track arrangement that requires the cars of a backing train to jog left and then right can cause similar problems. All backing movements should be kept as straight, and simple, as possible.] These two strings of turnouts should be connected to the two diverging routes of one "master"turnout, (a wye turnout with two straight routes at equal angles is ideal for this.) with the diverging tracks of all turnouts facing inward, This means a train will pass through one route of the master turnout and then through the straight routes of all others, until it reaches the designated yard track.
> A shortened ladder is just that, shortened. Most of the track beyond the frog, and before the points, is cut off. I used this system on the tracks of my passenger station. I had the advantage of making my own turnouts from scratch, so I built the entire ladder as one piece. With commercial turnouts, like the Pecos you have, you would need to do some careful cutting with a Dremel tool. If you decide to try this, I recommend marking the cut locations, and then clamping the turnout between two pieces of soft wood, in a vise. This will keep the rails firmly in place when you cut, and avoid damage to the turnout. Another company, Micro Engineering, now sells a ladder system made up of factory-shortened turnouts.
> ...


Thanks Traction Fan. I didn't explain it very well  but you understood me: At the beginning of the yard I have a three-way medium radius turnout. Then I will have three wye turnouts attached to each leg of the three way. On the top and bottom tracks, I'll have Small Radius turnouts. In all, eight tracks.


I'm trying to attach an Anyrail representation


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## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

*try these plans*

Using three short-radius wye turnouts as you described would diverge too quickly and they will run into each other. These two yard ladder arrangements have better geometry and are about as short as you can get for the eight tracks. You may need to add some short sections between turnouts to provide clearance for the throw-bars, or trim the throw-bars to fit. The short straight unmarked pieces are 1.6" long (Peco SL-113). Drawn with SCARM.


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## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks Ace!


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