# Getting back into trains, need some power pack advise



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Its been since the mid 70's since I last ran trains. Tyco . ( spirit of 76) I still have a few and some run great and some not so good. The Mantua ones are good, the other are hit and miss engine wise. Bought a Life Like loco ( Chessie system) and that one seems pretty decent. The layout will be on a 6 by 16 table. Maybe 8 by 16. I still have the original power supplies by tyco and they work ( 2 of them) . I have a lot of track and switches. I planned on doing a CSX paint scheme on a 2 of the 4301 locos, if I can get 2 of them to perform okay. 1 runs at half speed but the light is bright. It has new traction bands. Not sure whats going on there. The other runs fine. Way back in years, the spirit of 76 loco had plenty of power. Pulled 30 cars a few times until the cars fell inward on the corners. Looking for a power supply thats not too hard on the pocket book. New member here and not sure what dcc is, but been reading up on it, tons to read. dont know if its for me or not, yet. thanks in advace.


----------



## CF-DRG (Apr 13, 2020)

Too have a set/layout that will be trouble free and enjoyable, you need 3 things..
1- clean well laid track
2- a good power supply ( like you are looking for , that's good )
3- good reliable engines with multiple power pickup points..
This will make it more enjoyable for the start instead of trouble shooting most of your time..
As for DCC , as a beginner after a hiatus from the 70's i would play around with DC ( your tyco and standard DC power supplies ).. See if this is what you want to do for awhile or long term.. DCC is a whole new world and requires a bit more commitment and knowledge (and cost) but worth it for the long run .. 
These are my opinion's and I hope other member can add some insight also..


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

First thing I watched on YT was to clean the existing track. Did that. Second was to get new 22 inch radius corners, did that. Flex track is coming soon. So my main question is, do I jump right into dcc and learn it or go with a decent dc unit for now? For now the layout might be 2 separate tracks non connecting. But Im liking the idea of the dcc thing, just have to read more on it. Money isnt an issue. Decided to get back into this for a few reasons, 1: I'm bored this time of year. 2: ran out of projects ( my 78 Pontiac Trans Am project is 100% complete now, inside and out.) Looked into another car project and what they are asking for used up junk is unbelievable. 3 hunting season is over. 4 maybe grand kids someday???
thanks for the advice, the tyco units will be put to use at first as I read up on the dcc. Soldering track connections seems to be a must.


----------



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Tigger said:


> First thing I watched on YT was to clean the existing track. Did that. Second was to get new 22 inch radius corners, did that. Flex track is coming soon. So my main question is, do I jump right into dcc and learn it or go with a decent dc unit for now? For now the layout might be 2 separate tracks non connecting. But Im liking the idea of the dcc thing, just have to read more on it. Money isnt an issue. Decided to get back into this for a few reasons, 1: I'm bored this time of year. 2: ran out of projects ( my 78 Pontiac Trans Am project is 100% complete now, inside and out.) Looked into another car project and what they are asking for used up junk is unbelievable. 3 hunting season is over. 4 maybe grand kids someday???
> thanks for the advice, the tyco units will be put to use at first as I read up on the dcc. Soldering track connections seems to be a must.



If money is not a issue and you are bored and want projects I would suggest dcc it would give u more to do. The sky is much higher with dcc than with DC. You have of course more control of your layout. You can turn a turnout with the controller rather than going to your switch board. My cab that controls my layout I can walk around with since it's wireless.

If you do get into dcc I would suggest one of the big two

Nce
Digitrax 

Both offer plenty of options and higher level of control. I went with nce like 7 years ago. If memory serves me correct I paid 1200 got everything I needed to control (booster, tortoise switch machines, decoders for the tortoise, along with 2 mini panels which you can use to program multiple commands into one macro.) a very large layout that I was building at the time


Well hope some of this info helps if you have questions just ask


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Well, you won't know if you like DCC unless you try it and experience its capabilities, so I say jump in and try it.

Beats wiring multiple blocks for DC.

Soldering rail is recommended, but I've done it for DC layouts as well.


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Myself I would go DC for now. Some of the locos you have may not work with DCC You have a smaller layout and the locos so run DC for now. DCC transformers run around $160.00 and up. DC transformers will run a lot less in price and you can "Plop" the locos you have right on the track and run them. Then you can do some more research on DCC later on.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Maybe it's the word Digital that causes folks to think
that DCC is something from the land of Oz that only
the Wizard can comprehend. Tain't true. DCC is the
easiest system to install and the easiest system to
operate. All the tech stuff is inside...you just push
buttons and run trains.

A quick primer:
A DCC controller puts around 14 volts, modified AC
on the track at all times. (Your trains lights don't dim
or go out). Each loco has a decoder that has a specific
address (often the loco's road number). If you want
loco with # 3572 you simply push it's button and
run up the speed control. While it's running you can
push the button for 3743 and do some switching work.
You can even set more trains running at the same time.
All that with just 2 wires to the track. There's nothing
to learn. If you can change channels on your TV with
the remote, you can run a DCC layout. 

Don't be led astray with texts that describe power 
districts, special circuit breakers, power boosters and the like.
The typical home layout has no need for any of them.
And stay with the most popular DCC systems: 
Digitrax, NCE or MRC. These systems have many
forum owners who can help if you need answers.
They are all NMRA standard and differ mainly in
the 'feel' you have when handling the controllers.

Your existing DC locos can be upgraded with a
decoder, often priced under 20.00. It's easy to
install.

You mention that some of your existing locos are
not performing as they should. Often this is
caused by lube in the gear train that has gelled.
Clean it out and replace with a plastic friendly
lube as offered by LaBelle's at hobby shops.

Don


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I will say, first things first.

Is the track old brass rail? That gets dirty really fast. If so, modern Nickel Silver rail would be worth it as a replacement. But before we “go there,” clean the rail tops with nail polish remover that has acetone in it. Cheap dollar store stuff. Put some on a paper towel or sponge & clean it up.

Do the same for locomotive wheels. Nail polish remover on a paper towel laid over the rails. Set the loco on it so 1 truck only is on the paper towel. Do both trucks, one at a time unless the power pick up is on one truck only… in which case clean them 1 axle at a time. Hold the loco in place with your hand and max out the throttle. 9 times out of 5 it’ll leave black streaks of gunk that was coating the wheels. Don’t skip that new Chessie unit because its new.

When rails & wheels are cleaned this way, for 99 cents or so, reassess their running condition. That will eliminate the track & wheel conductivity as the immediate culprit. Test each freshly cleaned loco, starting with the Chessie as a baseline comparison.

Do that and let us know the results of each loco.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I use the Kadee Speedy Driver cleaner on locomotive wheels….









Trix makes one as well…..


----------



## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

bewhole said:


> Myself I would go DC for now. With DCC you would have to buy newer locos (What you have now will not work) and I do not think that you could convert a lot of them anyways. You have a smaller layout and the locos so run DC for now. DCC transformers run around $160.00 and up. DC transformers will run a lot less in price and you can "Plop" the locos you have right on the track and run them. Then you can do some more research on DCC later on.


I converted my Tyco's to DCC, it can be done. I have yet to see a loco, that can not be converted to DCC, older ones may take more work, (sometimes a lot more) then newer ones.


----------



## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

ncrc5315 said:


> I converted my Tyco's to DCC, it can be done. I have yet to see a loco, that can not be converted to DCC, older ones may take more work, (sometimes a lot more) then newer ones.


I should have worded that better. Some may not work with DCC .Plus you will need the knowledge to be able to wire it all. And yes you can learn. He seems to be going for a cheaper option and that would be DC. He has a Small layout so if he went DC he would have more money for track and switches and "Grow" his layout then later go DCC.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> If money is not a issue and you are bored and want projects I would suggest dcc it would give u more to do. The sky is much higher with dcc than with DC. You have of course more control of your layout. You can turn a turnout with the controller rather than going to your switch board. My cab that controls my layout I can walk around with since it's wireless.
> 
> If you do get into dcc I would suggest one of the big two
> 
> ...


Here's my question: everyone else talks about the "Big 3" DCC manufacturers. The two you mention and MRC. Why do you exclude them?


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

OilValleyRy said:


> I will say, first things first.
> 
> Is the track old brass rail? That gets dirty really fast. If so, modern Nickel Silver rail would be worth it as a replacement. But before we “go there,” clean the rail tops with nail polish remover that has acetone in it. Cheap dollar store stuff. Put some on a paper towel or sponge & clean it up.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with OilValley. Take this one step at a time. Forget about 22" curves and flex track. These have nothing to do with getting your engines running. If that's the advice you're gleaning from YouTube, then you're watching the wrong videos

Clean your track, clean and lube your locos. Make sure your track is laid without kinks or misaligned joiners. THEN if you're still having trouble, start looking for other issues (and honestly, part of the problem may be that you're not starting with the best quality stuff).

If you find you must replace a power pack, THEN it's time to consider whether DCC is the right move.


----------



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Here's my question: everyone else talks about the "Big 3" DCC manufacturers. The two you mention and MRC. Why do you exclude them?


Do you mean why I did not include MRC? Honestly I forgot thst they have as many features as the other two unlike a lot of the other systems. I personally have never used MRC unlike nce and a very limited experience with digitrax.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> Do you mean why I did not include MRC? Honestly I forgot thst they have as many features as the other two unlike a lot of the other systems. I personally have never used MRC unlike nce and a very limited experience with digitrax.


OK. But yes, in any discussion of DCC systems, those 3 deserve equal consideration.


----------



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> OK. But yes, in any discussion of DCC systems, those 3 deserve equal consideration.


I agree considering they seem to have all the extras like digitrax and nce. I just forgot probably because I'm not as familiar in use like the other two


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Right now I have a 5 foot oval in my mancave for testing locos. I bought a "lot" of tyco running and non running engines on ebay. 12 of them. Some were only shells. 7 of them are running decent now. Some had the lights missing. I soldered in automotive LED's ( 194 equivalent) and they are very bright. Even though they were labeled "running" that was not the case on any of them. A couple of them moved an inch or so. All needed TLC to get up and running. When I purchased these a few weeks ago, I had no idea that tyco was a low end unit. Learned a lot recently from this site. I might sell these engines and go with the better ones. Years back I had 45 cars, 5 locos and switches, buildings. etc. I lost interest as a teenager ( cars, motorcycles, girls) and left the stuff in my mothers basement. Well , cousins, nephews, neighbors, helped themselves to all the "neat" stuff so I ended up with a box of track and 1 loco. Maybe 6 cars. I have plenty of room in my basement and I'm in the process of building the table and running electric outlets to that area. I have quite a bit of brass track. Can that be mixed with the nickel silver? I used a fine scotch brite pad to clean the track and I have a can of electrical contact cleaner to wipe the rails, seems to work fine. I like the idea of cleaning the wheels mentioned above. Nail polish remover is on the list. I may even sell the brass track, I see it on ebay all the time. For the next few days I'll be reading up on the subject and looking a dcc units. Thanks for all the replies and keep the info coming. Okay edit: the tracks can be mixed as I read on this site. I'll probably go with all nickel silver though.


----------



## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm a dc guy by choice. I researched dcc and watched and listened to the stories before I decided. I did learn that dcc can fairy easily be added later. I would suggest that since you have dc already you at least stick with that until you decide instead of leaving everything waiting. I'm not sure of your budget but dcc can be a few hundred dollars to get started. Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I'm sure others will disagree.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Nickel rail is the standard. Brass is usable but maintenance intensive, hence, worth the minimal cost to upgrade to the standard. Also be aware, there are several Codes of rail. They can have transitions between them, but most people choose a single code and stick to it. Code 83 probably being the most popular.

The old Tyco engines may work out in the end. In the worst case scenario you could pull the motor out and make them Dummy Units. Though they shouldn’t be hard to fix up. On the other hand, they are low quality by todays standard. 
If you’re interested in rebuilding them, this is the youtube guy to follow IMO SMT Mainline

Caveat; I wouldn’t go out and buy locomotives unless A) you already know when & where your layout will be representing, or B) you don’t plan to represent any particular place or time and will happily run 1930s steam along side Y2K era diesels…. Which is fine. Letting the excitement take over & buying all sorts of stuff is a common misstep.

As per your layout, and your research, this may be a remedial note. Most human arms reach about 3 feet. Height of layout factors in, the higher it is, the shorter the reach.

As per DCC choice & research: See if there are any model railroad clubs in your area. They certainly use one, or more (NCE on the club layout, Digitrax on 1 or 2 personal layouts). They’d probably be happy to demonstrate them etc. Now whether you join a local club or not doesn’t really matter per se… But if the local club uses system X, then using system X yourself may be beneficial, even if you kind of like system Y slightly better. It’s just something to consider given whatever your circumstances are.
As I mentioned in another thread somewhere; the DCC interfaces are not equal. For example I found Digitrax throttles confusing. While I like Digitrax’s catalog of options, I opted for NCE which just felt simpler to comprehend (throttle wise). Obviously the “best choice system” isn’t the same system for everyone.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Conductorkev said:


> I agree considering they seem to have all the extras like digitrax and nce. I just forgot probably because I'm not as familiar in use like the other two


What extras are you speaking of? I received no extras with my NCE Powercab.


----------



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I would recommend sticking with DC to start. If you buy new locomotives try to buy DCC ready units. That will make upgrading much easier if you decide to later. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


----------



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> What extras are you speaking of? I received no extras with my NCE Powercab.



So I can take a Bachmann dcc and do everything I cam with my power cab?? Nope.i can run more trains I have more control in terms of macros and consists. Nce is far superior to Bachmann. Both MRC and digitrax fit in with nce after that it seems to drop off...


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

What NCE, MRC, and Digitrax offer is standard for a DCC system. They aren't 'extras'. It's what a DCC system is supposed to be able to do.

The Bachmann is a stripped down version that doesn't include standard DCC capabilities.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

On the hobbylinc website all of the HO dcc ready locomotives are "currently unavailable" Is this normal? or just cause its close to Christmas? Whats a good website for track, accessories, stuff etc ??


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The term 'DCC READY' can sometimes be misleading.
It simply means it is a DC loco with a jack into which
you can plug an after market DCC decoder. If you
are shopping for a DCC locomotive, they should
be identified by DCC ON BOARD or DCC INCLUDED.

I have no information as to why some locos are currently
unavailable. However, it is the Christmas season and
dealer stock has been sold. Then there is the problem
with Cargo ships lined up waiting to be unloaded. That
is a likely reason since so much train stuff is made
in China and other Asian countries.

Don


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Tigger said:


> On the hobbylinc website all of the HO dcc ready locomotives are "currently unavailable" Is this normal? or just cause its close to Christmas? Whats a good website for track, accessories, stuff etc ??


It depends upon what location you are modeling and where the models come from. I have no problem at all with locomotive or rolling stock availability.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Tigger said:


> On the hobbylinc website all of the HO dcc ready locomotives are "currently unavailable" Is this normal? or just cause its close to Christmas? Whats a good website for track, accessories, stuff etc ??


Normal, no. It's really due to the supply chain disruptions getting product from China, where almost all of it is made. Just keep your eyes peeled, or place a "backorder" so that you get one when it comes in.

I generally do my on-line shopping in two places: MB Klein (www.modeltrainstuff.com) and Trainworld (www.trainworld.com). But there are lots of other places. Shop around if you're looking for something specific.


----------



## Dave NYC 1962 (Oct 17, 2020)

Tigger said:


> Its been since the mid 70's since I last ran trains. Tyco . ( spirit of 76) I still have a few and some run great and some not so good. The Mantua ones are good, the other are hit and miss engine wise. Bought a Life Like loco ( Chessie system) and that one seems pretty decent. The layout will be on a 6 by 16 table. Maybe 8 by 16. I still have the original power supplies by tyco and they work ( 2 of them) . I have a lot of track and switches. I planned on doing a CSX paint scheme on a 2 of the 4301 locos, if I can get 2 of them to perform okay. 1 runs at half speed but the light is bright. It has new traction bands. Not sure whats going on there. The other runs fine. Way back in years, the spirit of 76 loco had plenty of power. Pulled 30 cars a few times until the cars fell inward on the corners. Looking for a power supply thats not too hard on the pocket book. New member here and not sure what dcc is, but been reading up on it, tons to read. dont know if its for me or not, yet. thanks in advace.


Love it! That was my first train too! DCC is basically digital electronics vs old analog. Definitely the way to go.

Dave


----------



## thysell (Jun 8, 2013)

Returned after 20 years, got an NCE power cab and haven’t regretted it. First layout was a 3 foot section of flex track. Added decoders to two old Athearn locomotives and ran both at the same time on 3 feet Of track. It was wild. If money is no object, go DCC and start having fun. Keep reading and asking questions. The guys here are great and can get you though any problems. Old blue box locomotives can be picked up on eBay. Most will need a good cleaning and lube. Good luck


----------



## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

thysell said:


> Returned after 20 years, got an NCE power cab and haven’t regretted it. First layout was a 3 foot section of flex track. Added decoders to two old Athearn locomotives and ran both at the same time on 3 feet Of track. It was wild. If money is no object, go DCC and start having fun. Keep reading and asking questions. The guys here are great and can get you though any problems. Old blue box locomotives can be picked up on eBay. Most will need a good cleaning and lube. Good luck


My experience exactly (except more like 35 years). I got a great deal on a NCE Powercab from Tony's Train Exchange, after a lengthy free consultation (more like an education) that made sense out of many of the confusing things I'd been reading. I've since "decoderized" a couple of DC logos and purchased a couple of DCC units on ebay that were supposedly "malfunctioning", but had just been misprogrammed. After resetting them to OEM configuration they worked fine. Don't be intimidated. 
I recommend nickel steel flex track and 14 Ga trunk and 18 Ga feeder wiring with feeders on every 3 ft length of flex track. If soldering next to those plastic ties makes you nervous, use (clean) pre-soldered wire feed track connectors.
The electrical signal that DCC applies to the track is kind of an ambiguous beast, neither true AC nor true DC, but a form of pulsed DC where the timing and spacing of the pulses encodes a digital signal which the decoder converts to binary 1s and 0s in patterns that constitute commands.
Sounds like you're on the track to a lot of fun and satisfaction, but never forget: have it YOUR way!


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Been busy rebuilding the loco's and have 7 of the 8 running nice. Going to pick up some lumber in the next couple of days and get the tables built. Made room in the basement also. When I was a kid running the train set, I never cleaned the tracks, ever. These rebuilt locos had to have the wheels cleaned and the track had to be cleaned to get them to move more than an inch. YT helped quite a bit with the motor rebuilds. Trying to locate one of those pin point oil "pens" , not exactly sure what they call them. Also what oil is recommended for the motors? For now I used some left over 0w20 full synthetic motor oil. 3 and1 oil was too thick IMO. I have dialectic grease in my tool box but havent used it on the locos. Would it be okay to use it on the axle wheels pickups? For a "better" contact? My car collection is over 20 right now. Im having fun working on these things. Two things I had to get was stronger reading glasses and a directional bright work light. lol.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The reading glasses / directional light is best solved by a combined unit. I love these things: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T4KPYN2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have two of them.

Lubricants are a different matter. I wouldn't use the dialectic grease at all. While motor oil works, I would try a dedicated hobby lubricant. Both LaBelles and Hob-E-Lube are good, widely available brands, and most come with a needle applicator.

However, you can buy stand-alone needle applicators. Try these: Glue Injector - 3 Pack by Peachtree Woodworking: Wood Glues: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Thank you. I'll look into those items. Yeah, the dielectric grease thing is quite the topic on car forums. Does it allow electricity to "flow" throw easily? some say yes while others say heck no. I over oiled the motors, so I have to take them apart again when I get the needle point and clean and re-oil. Some of the engines work great but need a few laps to warm up and gain speed. I guessing the oil is too thick or I over did it or both. But I'm making progress as most of these only lit up the light when put on the rails. Some didnt even do that.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, in my limited experience with it (automobile headlight bulbs), dialectric grease is helpful to preserve continuity on connections where water intrusion is a problem, but not where it can serve as a collector of dirt and grime. At the very least, it will further increase friction, which is definitely something I would avoid.

But as with anything else in the hobby, if you find a large divergence of opinion, the best thing to do is try it for yourself and see if you like the results.

I hope you didn't over apply oil, because too much can be as bad as not enough. A tiny drop, like on the end of a pin, is all that is needed.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

I over oiled a couple of them. Gonna take care of that today. Clean and leave them alone until my LaBelle's arrives.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Graphite or a powered dry lube from LaBelle's is the
thing for wheel 'bearings' and knuckle couplers.

Don


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Been busy rebuilding the loco's and have 7 of the 8 running nice.


Excellent to hear that. I expected it was dirty track, wheels, gummy gear lube, or old/inferior wiring beginning to fail.

As per lubrication, I haven’t had to do a lot myself…. Yet. I don’t really have a maintenance system in place yet, other than when locos are shopped, they also get any shell detail damage fixed with fresh unweathered paint… even mismatched colors being ok. That being said, I don’t lube motors. Bearings & worm gears are are up high I used a labelle lube. Just a single drop. I hear gun oil works too. For gear tower inner workings, well, I’ve not done any rebuilds on my P2Ks and Athearn Ready-To-Repair locos but would use whatever is recommended, akin to axle grease. 
For axle bearings however, I prefer a dry lubricant. Neolube is good, it’s a wet fast drying lube, it is conductive, and it blackens metal too. But despite those benefits I typically use a dry Moly lube there to reduce dust accumulation that low to the track. Axle bearings compared to motor shaft bearings & worm gears etc are more prone to grabbing things, so that’s my reasoning for using dry grease there. 
I’ve not considered universal joints on motor shafts until now. Due to their open spinning nature, I’d probably use a dry lube there too so there’s less wet oil splattering.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Thanks for the info. I have a tube of graphite powder in my tool box. Kinda wondered if it made a mess on the track or not. I also have a spray can of dry lube, can't remember who its made by but its a gold colored can and teflon based.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Doing some measuring today. I planned on an 8 by 16 table or a 6 by 16. Or anything in between like 8X14-- 7X14 --7x16
The layout will be a farm style. Windmills, plowed fields, tractors, etc. 2 separate tracks at first. I havent decided on a table size yet, but I'll pick up enough lumber to do it. I have my own farm style windmill and I just put it back up after it was down for a year. Its been painted and the head has been lubed.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Thats not a good picture, 1 more try.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Does it have to be the same width all the way. You could make 5 ft on each end 8 ft, and the middle 6 ft on 6 ft wide. Or deep rather. That would ease reaching things, and allow for a more kidney shaped loop, or a boot shaped loop with some farm stuff on the outside of the loop on the one corner.
At any rate, keeping things modular in construction will aid if you ever need to move it… even across the room. Meaning don’t make the supporting structure one huge piece.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with OilValley. You get a lot kore options if you can break out jf the box and use an L shape, E shape, C shape, even barbell or kidney shape.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

I laid out the measurements on the basement floor and I also tried to reach across the 4X8 piece of plywood on sawhorses in my mancave. I agree with you guys, its too far to reach if its 8 ' across. So im looking at other table designs on this site. I can assemble the table(s) in my mancave ( 52 X 30 so lots of room there) and see what I like. Then take it apart and bring it to the basement piece by piece. I'm thinking 6 foot across and wings added on. Yeah, kidney shaped might be the answer.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You might want to consider building modular 
pieces that can be re-arranged so you can try this
shape or that shape. Use 1X3s to make frames
of 4X4, 4X2, and so on. Use the 1X3s screwed
together as an L for legs bolted in the corners
for stability. The frame pieces are
screwed together...the frames are then bolted
to each other to form your desired shape. These can
be taken apart and put together in different
combinations until you get what you want. They also
can be built anywhere and easily carried to the
end location. 

Don


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Tigger said:


> I laid out the measurements on the basement floor and I also tried to reach across the 4X8 piece of plywood on sawhorses in my mancave. I agree with you guys, its too far to reach if its 8 ' across. So im looking at other table designs on this site. I can assemble the table(s) in my mancave ( 52 X 30 so lots of room there) and see what I like. Then take it apart and bring it to the basement piece by piece. I'm thinking 6 foot across and wings added on. Yeah, kidney shaped might be the answer.


A good rule of thumb for "usable" reach is 30". If you have access on both sides, even 6' is a little wide for a lot of folks (30" from each side is 60" or 5'). Remember, this is isn't where you can just touch with your finger tips, but where you can usefully handle something without dragging your arm or other body parts over the scenery and breaking something.


----------



## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I agree. My floating layout is on 56" wide tables, and I can reach the center without any issues. I'm even comfortable reaching in to do scenery work, which means I'm leaned over for extended periods, not just long enough to pick up derailed cars. I agree with the 30" reach rule of thumb.


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> A good rule of thumb for "usable" reach is 30". If you have access on both sides, even 6' is a little wide for a lot of folks (30" from each side is 60" or 5'). Remember, this is isn't where you can just touch with your finger tips, but where you can usefully handle something without dragging your arm or other body parts over the scenery and breaking something.


Agreed 100%. However I intentionally broke that with the layout I’m presently building. One of my main areas will be 36 inch deep modules, back to back…. Top deck at 56 inches high. The rear of these cannot be reached without a step ladder. Fortunately the rear 5-11 inches will be removable scenery, no trackage. My refineries however are 5 feet by 8 feet each, with track all over the place, also at 56 inches high. That’s a big big concern for me. Even with all the units being removable, you derail in there and you (the operator) get fired. Lol

So if you had a huge foam mountain in the middle as a view block for example, with no trackage, that could work. If it’s removable. In that avenue it’s good real estate for things like houses, a church, of a waterfall, etc. That’s the devil’s advocate part. 
I’d still 99% of the time advise against deep layouts, but there are ways to bend the rules with careful planning.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

OilValleyRy said:


> Agreed 100%. However I intentionally broke that with the layout I’m presently building. One of my main areas will be 36 inch deep modules, back to back…. Top deck at 56 inches high. The rear of these cannot be reached without a step ladder. Fortunately the rear 5-11 inches will be removable scenery, no trackage. My refineries however are 5 feet by 8 feet each, with track all over the place, also at 56 inches high. That’s a big big concern for me. Even with all the units being removable, you derail in there and you (the operator) get fired. Lol
> 
> So if you had a huge foam mountain in the middle as a view block for example, with no trackage, that could work. If it’s removable. In that avenue it’s good real estate for things like houses, a church, of a waterfall, etc. That’s the devil’s advocate part.
> I’d still 99% of the time advise against deep layouts, but there are ways to bend the rules with careful planning.


Another way to bend the rules is with a topside creeper, frequently used by mechanics to work over an engine bay. They work for constructing scenery, but are kind of awkward for everyday use. Obviously, if something out of reach is going to be "once and done", that's less problematic than something you need to reach during the normal course of operations.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

I noticed some people use a foam board of some sort on top of the plywood. What's the purpose of that? Wouldn't they have to use longer nails to secure the track? Looked into the soldering process, I should have no problems with that.


----------



## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Tigger said:


> I noticed some people use a foam board of some sort on top of the plywood. What's the purpose of that? Wouldn't they have to use longer nails to secure the track? Looked into the soldering process, I should have no problems with that.


Foam is used to sculpt terrain and create low areas like creeks and ponds. The track is secured with adhesive such as latex caulk, not nails.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

okay, that makes sense.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Foam provides a surface that makes landscaping and the like
easier. If you think you might want to 'dig' rivers, or lakes
you'd want to use a 2" this foam. But, a cheap 1/4" paper
covered foam is available from craft sections of Walmart
or Michaels. It can provide the base for scenics but without
the thickness. Keep in mind, your turnout motors mounted
under the table would need extended levers to throw the points
with the thicker foam.

Don


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

2 inch foam seems to be the most common, for the reasons already mentioned above. 
It is not without problems though, as DonR alluded to.
There are a number of other methods as well, like using a plaster shell over screen or cardboard lattice.
Perhaps the most versatile method is to use all methods, depending on the local scene.

I like using 2 inch foam for river banks and structure sub-bases as they provide a dead flat surface supported directly by benchwork, plus I can glue track directly to it with no roadbed, giving sidings about a scale 12 inch drop from the mainline, which is prototypical and keeps things from rolling onto the main. I also like them for roadway sub-base and for hill support utilizing the dead flat edges at the bottom. 
For example of that latter most; I’ll have a hill on my current build (5th official layout) that includes a road on an incline, but also a modular seam. So technically 2 hills that mate up like 1. The structural framework of the hill will be foam, using edges for the feet, a few house sub-base pieces, and the roadway base. Between those components will be hollow plaster shell probably on aluminum screen. The more traditional/intuitive method of stacking foam is fine, but rather wasteful of material in my opinion.
Another method is wadded up newspaper held in place with masking tape, then covered with plaster cloth, or some other material like joint compound. 
Cardboard lattice is also pretty common, though sometimes early/poor attempts can result in a waffle looking terrain texture.
My subroad bed though will be plywood on risers, set 2 inches up so that any 2 inch foam located adjacent will be level with that. This makes track super sturdy, and only about 5/8ths between switch machine & turnout throw bar. Trying to secure solenoid style switch machines to foam is madness, been there, done that. Twice. 
Unlike most other modelers, I’m going to use 2 inch foam as a view block partition, instead of masonite board. Two reasons why, I can imbed magnets into the top and stabilize it to my drop ceiling, so it will not wobble. For each end I will mount 2 inch wide half-round wire molding to eliminate the sharp 90 degree ends with nicely rounded ends.
2 inch foam is also splendid for carving mini-dioramas. Such as a stand of 5 or 6 trees or something that can sit on/in a larger scene later on. 

Extruded foam insulation is a very versatile product, come in various thicknesses. 

Paper laminated foam-core boards, like poster board with 1/8th foam in the middle, is in my opinion, better used for custom brick/stone walls. I’m not sure I would trust it to support track & trains. I wouldn’t run 3 lbs of locomotives over it supported by 1x2s 24-36 inches apart, I’ll tell ya that for no charge. Lol


----------



## Sevenhills1952 (Feb 2, 2021)

Hopefully this may help someone, it's worked for me for carving foam. If you have a soldering gun you can make tips with solid copper wire, like 10 or 12 gauge ground wire
(10-2 or 12-2 romex). A piece can be cut any length, shaped how you want even hammered flat on the end. Then heated it melts through cutting/shaping the foam.


----------



## Sevenhills1952 (Feb 2, 2021)

Sorry, posted 6 pictures somehow. 

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


----------



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Sevenhills1952 said:


> Hopefully this may help someone, it's worked for me for carving foam. If you have a soldering gun you can make tips with solid copper wire, like 10 or 12 gauge ground wire
> (10-2 or 12-2 romex). A piece can be cut any length, shaped how you want even hammered flat on the end. Then heated it melts through cutting/shaping the foam.



But how far does it cut before reheating it. I would love something other than using a hot knife (which can't cut all the way thru thick foam or does it uneven) or using the junkie scenic wire which always breaks or loosens up.


----------



## Sevenhills1952 (Feb 2, 2021)

Conductorkev said:


> But how far does it cut before reheating it. I would love something other than using a hot knife (which can't cut all the way thru thick foam or does it uneven) or using the junkie scenic wire which always breaks or loosens up.


Weller from memory is 140 Watts. It gets very hot and stays hot providing screws are tight. A foot or so of copper wire can be shaped to cut how you want it. Flattening cuts better & faster like a hot knife.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The problem with using a hot anything to cut foam is that it gives off toxic fumes, so the person doing the cutting actually needs a respirator, and good ventilation to the outdoors is necessary to protect others in the house.

I use a mini hacksaw to make cuts in the foam (this is simply a handle that fits over one end of the blade); it cuts through 6" of foam easily. For shaping, I use rasps and carving tools. Yes, that generated dust, but nothing a couple passes with a shop vac can't handle.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Just received some rubber traction bands from ebay. They fit nice. I tried the dental bands and they work but trying to get the twists out out it is difficult. They are square, not round. Once I figured that out, the loco's wobbled as the bands dont fit perfectly in the wheels. A tad too wide. Bought some round traction bands that fit good, look like they are right but they lack traction. Can only pull 5 or 6 cars without spinning on a flat surface. If i push down slightly on the front of the loco, it takes right off. So I either add weight to them or find a traction band that works as its supposed to. One of the loco's only had 1 band on ( 45 years old) and still pulled 11 cars w/o a problem, probably could have done more. All 8 locos are running great, 1 lifelike and 7 tyco's, 4 of which are the mantua style. I'm hesitant to replace the others now. Does anyone have a solution? The price of some of these bands is downright outrageous. Im planning a layout with an small elevation so traction will be important. thanks. So far I'm learning a lot here. Tons of money saving ideas.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I have some locos that are supposed to have traction tires but don't. You may not need them at all (real trains don't use them, although they do have sanders to aid in traction). Test first, before you assume you need a traction tire; it almost sounds like the traction tires you used are too thick and aren't allowing the full weight of the loco on the wheels. But adding weight can help with that.

Another option is a product called Bullfrog Snot. It is basically high-grade rubber cement that you use to "paint" your own traction tires onto a loco. Since you're having trouble finding something the correct size, that may be a good option for you.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

The round O-rings were replaced with the dental bands yesterday. It's just a huge pain getting them to sit right but I did manage to get it done and they are working good/fair. I have some stick on tire/wheel weights coming today that should help also. The "O" rings are so thin that very little comes in contact with the track, basically I wasted my money and time with those. They arrived 2.5 weeks after I ordered them. Oh well. The dental bands are cheap, so I may try a different size. The table lumber is in my mancave. We rearraigned the basement, treadmill and exercise equipment and mounted the TV to a different spot. I have plenty of room now and dont have move the ping pong table. Wife is happy, so everyone is happy, lol. They predicted lumber to come down in price this year, boy were they ever wrong. Wow$$$. I'll look into on the bullfrog snot stuff. thanks again.


----------



## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

You could try, lovetrainhobbies on ebay. Custom selection of traction tires there. Just need an appropriate measurement from the wheels, as they do not go by brand.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Years ago I had a Flood light tower, Tyco No. 107, TYCO FLOODLIGHT TOWER (4 LIGHT) NO. 107 VINTAGE HO SCALE IN PACKAGE | #1849437298
4 lights that lit up the entire basement at night. I'd like to get something similar to that. Ebay currently dont have any. Is there anything thats close? Or even better? Found something in "O" scale thats too large. Or even a home built one, I'd like that even better.


----------



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Tigger said:


> Years ago I had a Flood light tower, Tyco No. 107, TYCO FLOODLIGHT TOWER (4 LIGHT) NO. 107 VINTAGE HO SCALE IN PACKAGE | #1849437298
> 4 lights that lit up the entire basement at night. I'd like to get something similar to that. Ebay currently dont have any. Is there anything thats close? Or even better? Found something in "O" scale thats too large. Or even a home built one, I'd like that even better.


I have several of those, but the plastic is brittle and they are all broken. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


----------



## bcordes27 (12 mo ago)

OilValleyRy said:


> Nickel rail is the standard. Brass is usable but maintenance intensive, hence, worth the minimal cost to upgrade to the standard. Also be aware, there are several Codes of rail. They can have transitions between them, but most people choose a single code and stick to it. Code 83 probably being the most popular.
> 
> The old Tyco engines may work out in the end. In the worst case scenario you could pull the motor out and make them Dummy Units. Though they shouldn’t be hard to fix up. On the other hand, they are low quality by todays standard.
> If you’re interested in rebuilding them, this is the youtube guy to follow IMO SMT Mainline
> ...


Great information and discussion. As a newbie, what does it mean when you guys talk about different track codes and staying with one. Thanks


----------



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

bcordes27 said:


> Great information and discussion. As a newbie, what does it mean when you guys talk about different track codes and staying with one. Thanks



There are 3 or 4 different codes in ho alone. Thr code is the scale compared to real railroad rails. 83 is usually thought to be the most realistic out of the ho codes to real railroads. 100 is thought by most to be to high of rail when running trains on them 

Hope that helps


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Track code is a measurement of the rail height in thousands of an inch. Code 83 track is .083" tall. Etc, etc.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Conductorkev said:


> There are 3 or 4 different codes in ho alone. Thr code is the scale compared to real railroad rails. 83 is usually thought to be the most realistic out of the ho codes to real railroads. 100 is thought by most to be to high of rail when running trains on them
> 
> Hope that helps


Actually, no. CODE is the height of the model rail in thousandth's of an inch (so code 83 rail is 0.083" high). HO is the scale -- the proportion to the size of the real thing. In this case, 1/87.

You're right, though, that Code 83 in HO is generally a good representation of the 100-ish pound rail used on most mainlines. Code 100 is somewhat oversized (bigger than the 135 pound rail that the Pennsy once used) and code 70 is more appropriate for older track or sidings with lighter rail. It all WORKS just fine. It's the appearance that some people find off-putting.

You DON'T have to stick with one. You can shim shorter rails up to the height of taller ones, or use special joiners. It's not a good idea to mix codes randomly around your layout, if only because each change in code is a potential trouble spot. However, many people model heavier mainlines (higher code) and lighter spurs and sidings.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Table is done, 7 by 16. Just started laying the track. Planning on an incline and an over and under plan. What grade is considered normal? An inch per foot? 1/2inch per foot? etc.. Elevation is about 4 &1/2 inches total. I understand that the longer the grade, the loco's will have less problems pulling the cars/weight. The Building process is very enjoyable. "One of my boys is into trains and bought 2 steam style loco's. I never knew he liked model trains.


----------



## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

1/2" rise every 2 feet is right about 2% incline. 1" every 2 feet is right about 4%. A lot of people say that 2% is about the maximum, but the incline sets that come in pre-packaged sets often times are closer to 4%.

I used Woodland Scenics incline starter sets. They have several 1/2" inclines that are 2 feet long in one package marketed as 2% incline. They also sell complete incline sets at 2% (2" over 8 feet), 3% (3 inches over 8 feet) and 4% (4 inches over 8 feet).

I used a couple of their incline starters to have a slightly raised area that is 1/2" higher than the rest.

I also used a small section of incline starters to lower the track from cork roadbed to yard level (no cork). I ended up suing about the first 8 inches or so to transition from main-line height (on top of cork roadbed) sown to yard level with the track laid directly onto the foam board.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Can we see your track plan? Are you mounting that directly to plywood?


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

thanks for that info. The track will lay on top of a 'track bed" some sort of rubber. The inclines will be made of thin plywood ( luan ) and eventually made to look like natural hills/small mountains. Right now my plans are trail and error. I put some layouts down and didnt like them, so up they come and start over. I have plenty of time so I dont mind trying stuff first. I have a picture above but that has already changed a little. I have all new track, the silver stuff. The turnouts I saved from years ago are brass. Some of which will be used for dead ends or basically used very little. I'll have to purchase some newer turnouts soon as I need a few more. I have to admit, this is fun. I'll post another picture soon


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The various makes of turnouts of today use a variety of
divert angle and simple measurements. That
means they may not directly replace what you
have. You may have to adjust your connecting
tracks.

Don


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Thanks, I figured out how to cut track to size thanks to you tube. I'll have to do some research and head scratching before I order turnouts, there are a ton of various sizes and shapes. I kinda like the curved ones, at least a few of them. The original box that my first train set came in I still have. it's the tyco spirit of 76 figure 8 over and under. The whole set would fit on a 7 or 8 foot table and the incline was very steep. Probably 3/4 inch per foot give or take a little. The loco had zero problems going up that grade with the 5 cars that came with the set. I had it set up on our ping pong table and it would slide all over the place, ping pong table top was slippery ( way back in the 70's ) I finally put it on its own table a few months later. Great advice on this site.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

My kid just bought a Rolling thunder paragon 4 loco. He tells me it wont hardly move on the tracks, about 5 feet per minute but makes the noise and smokes. We currently run DC track. This type of loco is new to me and him. This is his first train purchase of any kind. Im happy he's into trains. I'm in the dark with these. Does this loco need a programmer? Im currently out of town, so I cant help him with it. He has another train coming also. Not sure yet which model but I'll know in a couple of days. Thanks.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That locomotive is DDC, so it may not run properly on a DC layout….


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

According to the online instruction's it will do both DC and DCC.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Tigger said:


> According to the online instruction's it will do both DC and DCC.


Just understand that marketers are in this hobby too. "Will do" is not the same as "will perform well" or "will perform identically". Same goes for minimum curve radii-- just because it can go around a curve doesn't mean it will do so well, or look right doing so.

The DCC decoder may have been programmed at the factory to run a certain way, and this could interfere with proper performance on a DC layout.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Hmmm okay. I'm back home now and found the packaging box and operating manual. Wow, this has tons of features. It will run on DC but to operate the whistle, bell, and volume, a master analog control module is required. It will control a whole list of other things. I wish he would have done some research before the purchase but he wanted to surprise me. So we need the control module, or upgrade to dcc. I'll wait until the other loco arrives and see how that one operates. Module is about $60, just dont know if the next train will need this or something else. It's scheduled to arrive this evening.
Another option is to sell that train and stay with DC. We have some thinking to do here for sure. Thanks for the input.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Well, just checked availability of the control module and they appear to be sold out.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I would recommend you purchase a DCC basic controller like those offered from MRC, Roco, Lenz, ESU, or NCE, and build this as a DCC layout. You will be amazed at the possibilities with this technology. 

You will also not have to divide the layout into electrical blocks to run more than one train at a time (in opposite directions too) and the required extra power pack(s) to do so. Of course, you still may want to divide the railroad into blocks if you plan on automated block signaling at some future date, but if not, you will be free of miles of wiring, block control panels, multiple power packs, etc.

It is like the difference between the Wright Flyer and a new 767.

You will be spending the money on an efficient, reliable DCC controller instead of spending it on spools of wire, block controllers, and power packs.

I have ran up to six sound and non-sound locomotives at a time on my railroad, though the normal is three or four, with a single hand-held controller. All functions of each locomotive is at your fingertips.

If cost is a consideration, I would look hard at how dedicated you are going to be to the hobby and how much interest you will have over the years. Model railroading, like so many other worthwhile hobbies, is not cheap by any means.


----------



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

You could always find something like the MRC tech 6 that will do both and cost less than $100. It is limited on the DCC side but it will program decoders and allow you to operate all sound functions and even multiple trains. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

I was planning on DCC eventually as I learned more about it. I have about 8 locomotives and didnt know how difficult it was to swap out the "brains" to another engine. ( shows how little I know about dcc) Right now Im in the building/layout stage and enjoying that a lot. as I said earlier, I was surprised my son likes trains also. Right now Im leaning toward the DCC option. I like the idea of reverse loops and more trains on the tracks at the same time. The money I'd throw at the DC controller might just as well go towards a DCC unit. I'll ask my son about the MRC tech 6 unit and look at that option too. To be honest, I had no idea model trains were so "advanced" until now. If we could get this new train to move at a fair speed, ( for now) he'd be happy. I have found this site to be very helpful. I've switch all the track to silver nickel and that alone has my loco's running without the lights blinking constantly as they did with brass track.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Modern locomotive are not difficult to swap decoders into and out of. Only the older locomotives that were never meant for DCC and have to have a decoder hardwired into them are the difficult models.

Modern locomotives have multiple pin headers that accept the correctly mating decoder and just push in. There are several different pin configurations and the decoder must match the header.

There are NEM651 6-pin, NEM652 8-pin, NEM660 21-pin MTC, Plux 8, 16, 22 pin, NEM662 Next18. These are all NEM/NMRA standards. Your locomotive will specify which configuration you need for a decoder, and any decoder with those specifications will fit and work in your locomotive. Lenz and Uhlenbrock started DCC in Germany.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Thank you.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Started looking at DCC units. I have 8 locomotive's,( my son has 2, so 10 total at this point) some mantua tyco (3) and some the pancake style tyco 4301 (3) A life like unit ( age unknown) and a brand new Walthers unit. My kid has 2 new dcc models, lionel and paragon 4. What DCC would work for that many? My knowledge of these is quite low at this point, but I will figure it out. Going to DCC will alter my layout so I might as well just go for it. I may make some of the 8 loco's dummies, as I dont need that many running, but I do like the looks of them. Some dcc units are sold out too. Expense isnt a problem. Recommendations? thanks


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Not sure that the Tycos and Life-Likes are worth doing…..the decoders will be worth more than the locomotive! 😁 

IMO, as per usual….


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's true. Especially if a sound decoder is added.

Recommendations would be to forget the Tyco and Life-Like. They are just too old to be upgraded. Most are single truck power units with drive on only two axles, three-pole motors, low detail and crappy paint in some cases. Use them as yard fillers and eye candy, or turn them into dummies.

Any DCC unit will work with as many locomotives as you have. You just can't run them all at once. For non-sound locomotive you could get away with running at least seven or eight. The hard part is keeping track of them and keeping them separated. It gets very busy trying to juggle that many trains at once. You must also use the controller to select which locomotive you want to give a command to, so you have to be ahead of the game knowing which is going to need an adjustment next.

Depending on the size of your layout, three to four running at once is manageable, or possibly three running the mains and a fourth in the yard shunting cars and making up trains.

MRC, NCE, DT, Roco, Lenz, ESU, and other control systems are available. I am only familiar with the NCE Powercab that is a full-featured basic unit. No wireless, no walk-around, no frills, but it gets the job done, and it does it very well.

There is a hand-held controller, a fascia mount panel, a straight cord and a coiled cord for other items, and a small power supply. Plug in the controller to the fascia panel, plug the power supply into the back of the fascia panel and run a pair of included wires from the back of the fascia panel to the track and you will be running trains in less than 30 minutes.

Other members here use different systems that are just as good and do the same thing. They can advise on what they use.


----------



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

You need to decide how much your willing to spend on your control system and how many trains you want to be able to run at one time. 

Some DCC systems will run you $4-500 or more by the time you get everything you need. 

Some on here would have you believe the art anything less isn't real DCC and somehow not worth it. Decide what YOU want from the system and are willing to spend. There are options, but some may take longer to find. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

The NCE Power Cab was the first one I looked at. Leaning that way. After researching a bit, I may run a non connecting DC track all the way around the outside of the layout. ( Just a thought at this point) I have plenty of brass track, so that I could still run the older models. That is an option. I like the dummy idea too. Just bought a Walthers GP15-1 locomotive. ( $69.95) It isnt DCC ready, its DC. I didnt open the box yet and it can be returned to Amazon quite easily. Do I send it back for a DCC unit or convert it to DCC? Soldering wires is no problem for me. Are DCC ready locomotives ready to run out of the box? Is it cost effective to covert the Walthers GP-15? I can get similar looking Bachman for $126 that is DCC. This site has tons of info and is helping me. YouTube is helping also. Thanks again.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

If you are in no hurry I would send it back in exchange for a DCC ready or DCC equipped model.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Thanks will do. I just spent about 3 hours in the DCC section on this site. Wow, lots to read. One question about the NCE Power Cab. How many different locomotives can it run? Not at the same time is what I mean. Is it possible to run 10 or even 15 different locomotives at different times?


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

The locomotive roster will hold six locomotive at a time. In order to add another locomotive, another will have to be called up in place of another. It's not a big deal to replace an idle locomotive with one you wish to run. I do it every time I operate the layout. I have 12 locomotives so they are changed out frequently.

Additional hardware such as a second throttle connected to the second Cat 5 port on the fascia panel will allow an additional six to be stored.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

6 will be plenty for the time being. I'm going to order the NCE Power Cab today. You've been very helpful, thank you. Hope to pay the new members back after I get acquainted and comfortable with the DCC system. kind of a "pay it back" thanks. Oh , sent the Walthers loco back and plan on this one: 
Amazon.com: Kato USA Model Train Products N EMD SD70M Flat Radiator - CSX #4695 : Arts, Crafts & Sewing


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Do you realize that is an N scale locomotive? I ask because you are posting in the HO scale forum.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Ooop's better double check that, thanks. Im running HO.


----------



## D&HDan (Nov 20, 2017)

Tigger said:


> First thing I watched on YT was to clean the existing track. Did that. Second was to get new 22 inch radius corners, did that. Flex track is coming soon. So my main question is, do I jump right into dcc and learn it or go with a decent dc unit for now? For now the layout might be 2 separate tracks non connecting. But Im liking the idea of the dcc thing, just have to read more on it. Money isnt an issue. Decided to get back into this for a few reasons, 1: I'm bored this time of year. 2: ran out of projects ( my 78 Pontiac Trans Am project is 100% complete now, inside and out.) Looked into another car project and what they are asking for used up junk is unbelievable. 3 hunting season is over. 4 maybe grand kids someday???
> thanks for the advice, the tyco units will be put to use at first as I read up on the dcc. Soldering track connections seems to be a must.


I would recommend not soldering every connection, some expansion/contraction will occur. Most of the Tyco stuff is toy type, little detail and some even with the old open frame motors. You want as many power contacts as you can get. Some early Life Like had power to just one set of axles. Forums such as this are great ways. There are also daily blogs that have a ton of info with some very cool posts about what they are doing and building. For cleaning track, I would check into No ox ID. A little dab will do ya. Have fun!


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

For four years now I have not had a problem with expansion or contraction of soldered rails on my 11x13 layout. I don't think this is even relevant for the amount of movement of the rails in an environmentally controlled room.

Every rail on my layout is soldered and is the most electrically sound layout I've built to date.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Even in a non-environmentally controlled area, the expansion rate for nickel silver track is about 1/10" per 100' of track for every 10 degrees Fahrenheit. Not really something you have to agonize over. Unsealed wood is a different story, and warping or expansion of wood under your track can destroy a layout.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

It's coming along nicely. Nothing is tacked down and I still have a few changes to make. I should have painted the table first. I think that's my next project. Not sure what color yet. Grass green, or an earth style color. The incline will be rocky/hilly/ mountain style. The very outside and inside tracks are DC. for now. I will be able to run some of the old tyco's on it. I'm probably going to sell most of the older tyco stuff and go all DCC in the next couple of years.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 19, 2021)

Had to borrow the 30 degree crossing for the 4 turnouts. Got another one on the way. A yard will be in the center eventually and converted to DCC.


----------

