# Marx 2002 handcar restoration



## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

I was given this Marx handcar by a old neighbor of mine when I was a kid back in the 60's. It ran well for many years, but eventually, the rivets holding the gear train worked themselves loose and would no longer mesh to drive the car. This was about 30 years ago.  About 20 years ago I decided to fix it. So, I drilled out the rivets (not actually rivets, but small shafts that were stamped on the end to tighten them) pulled the whole thing apart, and proceeded to let it sit in my toolbox for a few more years. Finally, I machined a few small shafts and spacers and put the gear train back together. But once again, I hit the wall when I didn't have small enough taps, machine screws, or nuts to put it all back together the way I had planned. Which brings this story to the present. I want to get this thing running once and for all. So step one, I had to get some 0-80 machine screws to replace the riveted/peened shafts. So I ordered 50 from McMaster Carr along with a tap. I learned a lesson on shipping charges with that order. The shipping cost me more than the parts I bought!!! I felt pretty stupid about that. But, I had my parts. Anyway, here's a few pics of where I'm at on this project.









This is what I started with. Luckily, I had most of the parts.









I thought I might be able to drill the holes in my lathe, but I didn't like the set up.









Used the drill press instead.









That is one small tap!









Holes weren't deep enough, so I broke out the dremel and sanded 1/16" off the screws.









And here's where I'm at now. Hopefully, any delay will be a short one!


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Nice work, looking forward to seeing the end result! May not be able to wait another twenty years:laugh:.

I can really relate to the great and timely study you've put into this project! Too bad my wife wasn't driving it. You would of been done ten years before you started it! :laugh::laugh:


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

Bob, yeah, at this stage of the game, I'd better not delay that long. You might say I have to meet a "deadline"!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You have the box too.
That might be worth more then the car.:thumbsup:

There are not the many parts for it huh?
I guess there are people for the top?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice work. An oldie but goodie. I reattached the motor side plates on a Lionel motor a while back, using screws and spacers, and it worked out OK. Looking forward to your progress.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

Ed, no, there isn't a whole lot to this thing. Unfortunately some of the simple things I need for it I have to hunt down yet. Mainly, what I need to do is stock up on some small fasteners, along with their taps and dies. The 0,2,3, and 4 sizes. I'd probably have it near running if I could just reach in a drawer and pull that stuff out. But I'm still a bit of a newbie, finding my way. Also, I failed to post any pics of the handcar body and the two riders last time. So here they are.









Here's Mr. Blue and Mr. Gray









And here they are semi mounted to the handcar. They look a little pathetic I think.  









And here's a shot of the car by itself. Note the broken handles. I'll address them when I get this thing running.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Joe and Ernie (?!?) look to be in pretty good shape, so you're in good luck there.

Handle fix looks doable, especially given your lathe talents, if needed.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

Received my box of small hardware in the mail the other day. I now have all the fasteners I need to get this thing together. Drilled and tapped two holes in the rear crossbar to secure the two side plates. Unfortunately, I seem to have misplaced one of the motor brushes, so I'll probably turn one down from a larger square brush I have laying around. That should work I hope. Getting closer.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can make small brushes from larger brushes. 40 years ago, I needed rollers for a ZW and the only LHS in Orlando would not sell them to me. I bought a large brush from a local surplus store and had a machine shop make me several rollers. I don't much care for that LHS as they wanted to pick my pocket.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

servoguy said:


> You can make small brushes from larger brushes. 40 years ago, I needed rollers for a ZW and the only LHS in Orlando would not sell them to me. I bought a large brush from a local surplus store and had a machine shop make me several rollers. I don't much care for that LHS as they wanted to pick my pocket.


That's the advantage of having a little lathe in my workshop. It's helped me with train repair several times now. I have a couple larger brushes from a scrap motor that I can make use of. I'm sure I could find replacements somewhere on the net, but this time I save the shipping costs And about that LHS from long ago that wouldn't sell you the rollers. The way I see it, he probably lost a lot of sales that he could have made to you over the years because of one incident like that.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thumbs up on rolling your own brushes. Brush material is reasonably soft. I've kludged together a few brushes simply by mounting some stock in a drill press (no lathe on my end), and "kissing" them with a flat file to diameter and shoulder requirements.

Looking forward to your handcar re-assembly!

TJ


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> Thumbs up on rolling your own brushes. Brush material is reasonably soft. I've kludged together a few brushes simply by mounting some stock in a drill press (no lathe on my end), and "kissing" them with a flat file to diameter and shoulder requirements.
> 
> Looking forward to your handcar re-assembly!
> 
> TJ



I use my drill press a lot as a lathe with some rigging to set up a tool rest. I have a wood lathe too, but I put it in storage because I don't have a lot of space on my shop.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

*Two steps back*

Ok, I thought that today I would be celebrating powering up the handcar for the first time in many years. Instead, I have to send out a cry for help. My lack of knowledge about electricity and motors has been painfully exposed! 

I machined the new brushes, assembled everything and proceeded with a bench test. The red light on the transformer I hooked up to came on. Short Circuit!  I'm not sure where I went wrong. I know for sure I could probably use a little more education on small electric motors. Anyway, I'm in need of suggestions. I've included a few photos showing how I have it wired. Maybe someone can see something in them and offer some suggestions. I'd appreciate the help.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

There is more than one way you can connect the motor, but here is how it is usually done.

Pickup to one brush
other brush to field coil
other end of field coil to the frame which goes to the outside rails.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto to Servoguy ... but only IF the "tail end" of the field coil is grounded to the frame (and wheels / outer rails).

Some Lionel motors reverse the sequence. Pickup to one end of field coil. Other end of field coil to a brush. Through the spinning armature. Out other brush, which would be grounded to the frame (and wheels / outer rails).

I can't tell from the photos above if you're the first or second scenario. Upsman, have a look at the components, and see if you can deduce which setup.

TJ


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

tjcruiser said:


> Ditto to Servoguy ... but only IF the "tail end" of the field coil is grounded to the frame (and wheels / outer rails).
> 
> Some Lionel motors reverse the sequence. Pickup to one end of field coil. Other end of field coil to a brush. Through the spinning armature. Out other brush, which would be grounded to the frame (and wheels / outer rails).
> 
> ...


After reading your post TJ, it got me thinking, and actually remembering a bit how this crazy thing was originally wired. Turns out that I did have to go from the pickup to the one end of the field coil, then from the other side of the field coil to a brush, and the other brush was indeed grounded to the frame. I wired everything together roughly, and proceeded to bench test it.

http://youtu.be/DwGRXxeuE1g

Success!!:smilie_daumenpos:

I was so caught up in the moment that I went back, soldered my connections, installed the wheels, put the handcar body on the motor, and stuck Mr. Blue in his slot, and gave it a test run around the track. I never thought I'd see the day! 

http://youtu.be/laumTiILm_U

The only thing I'm concerned about is that the motor got a bit hot to the touch on the ground side brush. Other than that, it seems to be running ok so far. Thanks for your input guys.

Carl


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ups,

That's wonderful news! I really enjoyed the first motor-test video. I was wondering (earlier) why Lionel had place the reduction gears inside the frame (an unusual thing). But then, I saw the little sprocket-rod thingy poking inward on that last gear, and I see that's what makes Mr. Blue get busy with work. Very clever.

Great thread. We have lots of repeat restorations 'round here (my 1681 obsession, for example), but this is something unique for us. It's fun to armchair peek under the hood!

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey, I just noticed ...

You put Mr. Blue in Mr. Grey's spot, I think. Intentional ???


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks for the great thread! Looks like that handcar is moving right along now. Great work!


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

*Finished (sort of ) product*

Thanks for the kind words about this thread, and for just stopping by and checking it out. Makes me feel like I'm contributing something. As for Mr. Blue and Mr. Gray's location TJ, I'm not sure who goes where. I'll just have to switch them around every so often so they don't tire of being in the same spot

Well, today I repaired the hand grips on the rocker of the handcar. There was only one grip left, so I had to improvise a bit to replace them. If I had any small pieces of brass laying around I would have used that, but I didn't. What I do have plenty of is nails. So I took a couple of 8p nails, and turned them down to .083 X 1 1/8" long, rounded the ends, and shined them up as best I could. I then mounted the rocker in a milling attachment I have for the lathe in order to drill out the remnant of the old grips and create a hole for the new grips. After that, it was a just a matter of installing the pins in the hole, and putting everything back together. 

Here's a couple pics of the finished product. It's not a pre-war tinplate with a lot of monetary value, but there is a lot of sentimental value in it for me. 


















And just for good measure, here's a short video of the test run after I put it all together.
http://youtu.be/6ALtvIW3Ldc

And Thanks Mr. & Mrs. Hall for the gift of that handcar so many years ago!


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

That's really cool to watch, those guys tire me out watchin'. And to think my hair hasn't gotten any greyer waitin for you to finish! Good job!



tjcruiser said:


> I was wondering (earlier) why Lionel had place the reduction gears inside the frame (an unusual thing). TJ


The reason is simple. Lionel didn't have a thing to do with it. Louis Marx gets all the credit!:appl:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ups ... BRAVO!!!

RK ... I'm eating crow. I had forgotten this was a clever little Marx number!


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

That's really cool, sure gives the guys a workout. :smilie_daumenpos:

Magic


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## jimtone (Nov 11, 2014)

I have the same model and want to take the drive assy. off of the brown shell but can't see how to disconnect the shaft that connects from the drive gear up to the rocking handbar? The drive assy. can't come off the shell with that flat bar shaft connected? In the drive assy. the shaft in pinned to a gear with a rivet that is pinched on the sides, and if I grind the pinch off to remove, I'm not sure how to re pinch that rivet bar? The rivet is pinched like the drive wheel axels on 666/1666.


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

This would have been very interesting with photos.

Dan


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## jimtone (Nov 11, 2014)

*Marx handcar disassembly*



Panther said:


> This would have been very interesting with photos.
> 
> Dan


 Anyone knowing how to remove the drive assy. from the uppe plastic shell will understand what shaft connects the pump arm to the drive shaft? I don't have a digital camera to post from. I'm asking if someone knowledgable in removing the upper shell from the mechanical drive assy. on a Marx handcar could share the method of removal or diconnection of the shaft that rocks the handpump on the shell? Please, I thinking I can't be the only one here seeking this process?


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## jimtone (Nov 11, 2014)

*Marx handcar*

I have the same model handcar as the OP (upsman55) and need to remove the drive assy. from the shell but can't see how to separate the shaft/rod that moves the pump handle and connects to the drive assy. ? Mine is assembled with crush rivits that would need to be drilled to remove??


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The videos are good but lacking in pictures. I for one have not seen a Marx Handcar. I guess now I will have to look harder, It appears to run very well. I have seen the AF version and was not impressed enough to purchase one.


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