# 18" Curves - Help Please



## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm at the very beginning of my (newbie) layout. It's 5'x9' HO, currently using the Bachmann EZ-Track TrackPack kidney design.

The pack had 3 bad turnouts (out of 4). ...just getting past that

I tried running a J-class loco and it immediately derailed. Lesson learned; I need 22" curves instead of my 18".

At this point, do I cut my losses and go with a new (and pricey) Kato Unitrack kit or salvage the Bachmann TrackPack? I do have some extra space and would like to eventually run medium-sized steamers.

I know this is a judgement call, but would sure like to hear opinions from more knowledgeable people before forging onward.

Also - is anyone able to assist me in creating a simple layout? I looked at one layout program, but $125 is just too much right now.

Thank you in advance! I appreciate it.


Mark


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

THe BAchmann Class J engines need 22+ to be happy but there are others out there than can handle 18" just fine. I have a BLI Class J that can make 18" but it does not look all that great doing it.

Why are you going to stick with a premade roadbed track? These EZ track systems are more costly than basic track. Granted they set up quick and easy but you could get better results with Atlas track and some foam or cork roadbed. THe cost of the roadbed and track are less than any of the ez track systems but they do take a little longer to set up, but the biggest thing about basic track over EZ track is there are unlimited choices in layout design.

Massey


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

I initially thought that (EZ) was the way to go. I'm already having doubts before putting it all together.

Don't laugh, but I just discovered flex track. Soldering/bending/cutting isn't a problem, but the many different turnout and merge(?) sizes have me baffled for a small layout.

Are there people on the forum that could, using software, design a 5x9 for me? I could pay a token amount, but am already running low on cash before getting my 2nd engine!

There is a large TCA show in Tampa, coming up this weekend. If I had a parts list for track, it would make for less waste. ...or should I wing it?

Thanks again for the reply.


Mark


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## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

MarkAlt said:


> Are there people on the forum that could, using software, design a 5x9 for me?


Mark there are a lot who can help, and feel it a pleasure to do so.

If you have not already seen it look for my thread in Layout design for 9x9 around the room. I had similar aspirations of a 5x9 until a few folks convinced me to take another look. Don't know if your situation is similar but in viewing the thread you may see some who are willing to help me that you might be able to PM with a request.

Or alternatively put up some more specifics about your situation such as where the layout will reside. Is the area exclusive to the layout (in a bedroom for instance or garage) or do you share the space. All of that will be needed to determine how to work a layout that you can enjoy.

Casper

edit: BTW - Welcome to the forum!


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks Casper and Massey,
I learn something new after reading every thread.

My room is 10'x11', with a closet door, 2nd floor. The whole room can be used, but I was given a 5'x9' surface and have no carpentry skills. I'm an electronics guy, so soldering and Dremel work is fine. I've purposely banned myself from most other power tools ; )

If anyone reads this that might be able to help with a layout, don't hesitate to PM me.

...might start a new thread with proper title


Thank you,
Mark


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Ditch the 5x9 idea and go with a shelf layout around the walls. you'll be MUCH happier with the ease of use of your layout. 5x9 will create some real deep reach and it will eat up the whole room.

In a 10x11 room - if you go with a 24" shelf along each wall, you'd have roughly 40' of mainline run around the perimeter and can run large radius curves easily (24"+) which means you'd reliably be able to run any kind of rolling stock/engines. You'd also have a nice 6x7 open area in the middle of the room for yourself or other people to stand and run the railroad.

If you have a 5x9 table in the middle of a 10x11 room, you'll only have 2.5' clearance along (2) walls and only 12" clearance along the other (2) making it single file tight maneuvering around the table - you'll be bumping it and derailing cars, etc, with no room for people to get a good look at it.

Shelf benchwork is really easy to build.

Can you run track through the closet door? Closets make great staging yards.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

With a couple of inexpensive tools, and some simple instructions you can handle the benchwork yourself. Home Depot or Lowes can cut the ply for you in the size you need so all you will be responsible for is the framework. For each of the layouts I have built (except this last one) I had my local HD cut my ply for me. The only other tools I used was a tape measure, cordless drill (corded will work too), mider saw and a 3' level. There were a couple of other things like a phillips bit and a predrill for the screw holes but those are minor tools. I will if you need post some pics of the tools I used if you would like.

Massey


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

Mark,

I think Massey and Scott have the right idea. I would also promote a shelf-style layout around the walls. You can easily achieve the radius you would like (the bigger, the better, in my opinion). You can reach things much easier...and I literally think it makes better use of space. As Scott pointed out, you can run the track through the wall into the closet and have a storage area for railcars. Good luck!

Chad


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

a few tips to work with here.

First off some tools
Power Tools needed
Power Miter saw
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
This saw will cut 2x4 or 1x4 easy and if you want or need 6" material you will need to lift the wood or make 2 cuts. My saw is the same size but I have the Delta brand and I dont have a laser marking guide.

Drill
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
Dont skimp too bad here, this tool will be put through alot of abuse. It is also a great tool to have around the house for minor repair work.

Drill bits. 
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 
This is the same set I have and I have used the p!ss out of it. Every popular size you are going to need for $20

Pilot Drill
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
These guys prevent you from splitting the wood when driving the screws and they also countersink the head of the screw for a nice clean finish.

Hole saws are optional as are augger bits. Basicly they are used to make bigger holes, not required but some times nice to have laying around.

Basic hand tools that make life nice 
Tape Measure. This should be self explainatory, but get a good quality one like the Stanley or Dewalt and get around 16' or better. I have several 24' ones and they are usually less than $10

Hand saw. some times you just need to trim a little off here and there or make a small custom cut. Get a type for cutting plywood or 2x4 not one for cutting outdoor wood like firewood.

Screwdriver bits. Depends on what type of screws you are going to be using. Usually these can be had in a set that will give you a little of everything. Bits are also available in bulk for those types that get worn out alot.

Basic hand tools for wiring and general use. This is prolly something you already have, most people do. 

Carpenders triangle square. This is for making straight lines where you are going to cut. It will have a straight edge and a 45° for common cuts. The miter saw will also be able to be set at 45° but having the line drawn as a guide makes for good benchwork.

Last and one of the most important is a level. 36" level is best for benchwork as it will be long enough to span the shelves and also works as a straight edge. You dont need to go mega expensive but get a sturdy one.

Some other tools I found to help but are not required are C clamps and cabinet making clamps. The cabinet making clamps hold the wood at 90° to each other to put everything together nice and square.
This is the ones I have. Only one is needed but having 2 make some things alot easier.

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Hope this helps give you an idea of what tools are needed to build a layout. Other tools only make more complex designs possible but this will get you started and give you the ability to create a nice framework for your trains to run on.

Massey


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks for the advice.

I'm going to measure the room and start planning a shelf layout.

It will be a challenge, since we rent (no large holes in the walls). Is it possible to use bookshelf type mounts for HO? These could be screwed into the wall with small anchors.

Christmas is a little early this year. Hoping to buy a new engine and some track/cork at the Tampa train show tomorrow.

For this weekend, I'll be watching the train go in circles ; )



Best,
Mark


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Here look at this! This was an around the walls layout that used 2 small tables for turnarounds and it was done in an apartment.


































and here are a few that show some of the scenery. The track plan was horrible for operations but it made for some good railfaning.


























This was done freestanding using "L" shaped legs similar to the ones that the MR staff is using for the Virginian project layout this year.

Massey


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## MarkAlt (Nov 13, 2011)

Those photos help a lot Massey!

Our HD will cut the wood to basic shapes. I have a good hand drill and misc. thinking about getting that Rockwell Bladerunner as a jigsaw.

Already feeling some creativity. Will post a photo of the room and maybe ask for layout ideas. Being my first layout, it won't need to be elaborate.

Can't thank you guys enough.


Mark


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## okichewy1 (Sep 5, 2013)

I am new to this also. I inherited my grandpa's train collection and the family is working on setting it up. The room I have is 12' x 15' with a door and open hallway entrance. Good thing is the door and hallway is at least 8' from a long wall. My layout is against the 3 walls (U shaped), 2' shelves, with 4'x4' areas for a curve and a tunnel on the other side. The tunnel will rise and send the trains across a bridge (near the bedroom door) and across the wall and then cross a bridge (hallway area). I just need to work on the slopes and turns to get it back to the U shaped shelf. I am still in the building process of the U shaped portion.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Mark, you've got a lot of good advice here and I'm looking forward to watching your build. I am building my first shelf layout also and hope to get back to work on it in a couple of week after I recover from hand surgery.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I've looked at the responses from everyone so far, but did not see any suggestion for assisting in your layout plans, unless I missed it with these tired eyes. There is a free computer application out there called SCARM which provides many different scales and track manufacturers. I'm sure the track you plan to use is included in it. Do a Google search for the name and it should turn up the download page. One of our MTF members is the author of that software and goes by the name Mixy on here. You can find his posts in this forum using his name in a search. Good luck and let us see the progress as you move forward.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

If you give me some basic room and shelf width dimensions, I'll get you started in SCARM.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Mark

Massey and the others are right on. Some of the Forum members are
genuine craftsmen...but then there are clumsy oafs like me and I suspect
many others who had no carpentry talents. But we didn't let that
keep us out of a very engrossing hobby.

Electronics experience is going to serve you well on
a DCC layout...but don't think you can't do the basic carpentry you need
for a layout. You may be surprised at what a craftsman you might be.

Me too on the around the room layout. But think modules. What I mean:
decide on the width you want to go around the room. Then make a frame
with 4 piece of 1/3" or 1/4" boards screwed together. You cut legs of
the same material and bolt them on. The module would be approx 4' x 
whatever width you choose. Make a series of these to complete the
circuit of the room. You bolt the modules together as you build them.
Then install the table top. To make life easier, get adjustable screw
in feet so you can level the layout before you put on the top. Get 1 inch
BLUE or PINK insulation foam to cover the plywood top and you are
ready to start laying track.

And by the way, if you must move, you would simply unscrew the
modules take them with you or you could decide on a different layout.
Just rearrange the modules.

There are more details and you'll find many more construction tips
and suggestions if you read through some of the how to do it threads
here on the Forum. 

And by all means...ASK QUESTIONS. We enjoy helping.

Don


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## oldsarge218 (May 23, 2011)

Perhaps I overlooked it, but just in case, I would offer this. When a person rents here in Michigan, and permanently attaches anything to the walls, it becomes a part of that real property. Now, if you have a good landlord, it would not be an issue. But, if there were any conflict or bad feelings between the parties, a real mess could develop. I would definitely go the modular unit way, if only for that reason.

God Bless

Bob


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

oldsarge218 said:


> Perhaps I overlooked it, but just in case, I would offer this. When a person rents here in Michigan, and permanently attaches anything to the walls, it becomes a part of that real property. Now, if you have a good landlord, it would not be an issue. But, if there were any conflict or bad feelings between the parties, a real mess could develop. I would definitely go the modular unit way, if only for that reason.
> 
> God Bless
> 
> Bob


I've lived in Michigan for most of my life (the last 24 continuously) and I've never heard of that rule before.

You always want to go modular if you're renting - you KNOW you won't be there forever and will eventually need to move it somehow.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

What Oldsarge says about attaching things to your rental property is generally true in all states. Most landlords don't want you to leave anything in their apartments but if you nail stuff to the wall then technically it has to stay there when you leave. This goes for train tables too. 
You also need to do a proper job of fixing any holes you put in the wall too. Otherwise you lose your security deposit to have the holes fixed. Pete


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Some drywall spackle and a $25 can of interior paint (and a little labor) and you're the best tenant ever for putting a fresh coat of paint in the room and leaving it in such nice shape.

Little spot stuff like that is easy and you can paint out a room in a couple hours.

I wouldn't hesitate to somewhat attach things to the wall if that made it more stable/usable or asthetic.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Do you guys know that this thread was brought back from the dead over 2 years ago:dunno:

Im not even sure if mark is still current on this forum??


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## Walman (Dec 18, 2011)

Massey;
103800]Here look at this! This was an around the walls layout that used 2 small tables for turnarounds and it was done in an apartment.

Massey I am not even sure if this is your layout but do you (or anyone) know anything about that cool little white bridge? I need something just like that. It looks home built (I mean that as a compliment). Anyone have thoughts?

Walman


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