# 40ft hopper vs. 100 ton hopper?



## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

Hi all. I am trying to put together a plan to re-create the New Hampshire Northcoast (NHN) sand and gravel train in N scale (circa 1990's) and have been doing research on the various hoppers they use. Ultimately the question I need answered at the end of all this is: *Is there anyone who has extensive hopper knowledge that can tell me if a 100 ton 3-bay hopper is essentially the same height and length as a 40ft 3 bay hopper?*

Highball Graphics decals seems to have the best schematics on the various hoppers for the NHN gravel train, but I feel like there may be some inaccuracies in those descriptions as well (because they call a 12 panel hopper a 14 panel hopper, etc.).

Watching video footage of the gravel train, there seems to be a mix of 2-bay and 3-bay hoppers, and the heights of those hoppers vary. I am mostly concerned with matching both the height variations and the number of panels (so decals will work accordingly), but I'm not so concerned with minuscule detail variations between models of different hoppers (where the brake wheel is located, etc.)

That being said, Highball graphics offers decals for 4 types of hoppers for this train:

100 ton 2-bay TRUMIX hopper
300 Series 2-bay NHN hopper
Both regular and "high-sided" versions of 40ft 3-bay hoppers

The 100 ton TRUMIX and 300 series NHN 2-bay hoppers both look nearly identical to me, so I believe I can use this Walthers 100 ton hopper for both of those??

But the "40ft" 3-bay hoppers (as Highball Graphics calls them at least) are more challenging to find and get info on, which is where I really need help. I don't need the Western Pacific "high side" hopper, but I do need the regular hopper as these are the ones that create the height variation in the train (they are not as tall as the 100 ton 2-bays). But I'm having an impossible time finding 3-bay "40ft" hoppers and with the same amount of panels on the side... I can only find "100 ton" 3-bay hoppers with the same number of panels on the side, like this one. Although I did happen to find a 40ft 3-bay hopper on Shapeways that was created by some guy who was also trying to replicate the same NHN gravel train and having an equally hard time finding any.

I'd rather not buy the Shapeways model and have to outfit it with trucks / wheels / couplers if I don't have to... I'd rather buy something all put together and just have to paint + decal it. So I ask the question again: *Is there anyone who has extensive hopper knowledge that can tell me if a 100 ton 3-bay hopper is essentially the same height and length as a 40ft 3 bay hopper?*

Here is a gallery of NHN prototype photos from Highball Graphics for reference.

And here is a video of a NHN train from 1992 that shows a good mix of all the hoppers I'm referring to:





Thanks in advance for any help.


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Actually, I think they are 42' 100 ton hoppers. All I can tell you is that generally, 3 or 4 bay are the same height/ length. Not sure on a 2 bay, but bear in mind: 100 tons is 100 tons, no matter the number of bays.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

time warp said:


> Actually, I think they are 42' 100 ton hoppers. All I can tell you is that generally, 3 or 4 bay are the same height/ length. Not sure on a 2 bay, but bear in mind: 100 tons is 100 tons, no matter the number of bays.


Thanks time warp. Yeah part of the rationale in my head about "100 tons is 100 tons" is that maybe the 3 bay hoppers are in fact 100 tons but are shorter in height and longer to distribute that load accordingly (compared to a taller in height / Not as long 2 bay hopper holding the same weight)?

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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

That's why I said "generally". There are going to be variables, but the best bet is to try to get some different ones side by side.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

time warp said:


> 100 tons is 100 tons


That doesn't mean all 3-bay hoppers are the same height & width.

And 100 tons of one material is more volume than 100 tons of some other material.










Compare the small size of this car (the exact same as your NHN cars) to the much larger (also 3-bay) hoppers on either side, original built as coal hoppers (a less dense (i.e. lighter) material than iron ore/rock).

In the case of the NHN ex-ONT 3-bays, you're either going to accept a stand-in or go for the Shapeways model, which is based on the correct car. Although it should have V-shaped bracing on the inside, but that's easy to do with styrene.

I'm actually scratchbuilding a few of these same cars in HO scale for my Algoma Central. (See attachment)


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

And to actually answer the original question(s):

1) Yes, the Walthers 2-bay car looks good or at least close enough for the NHN 300 series Trumix cars

2) No, the MicroTrains 100-ton hopper does not have the same proportions as the NHN 400 series ex ONT cars. It'll be larger.

More NHN hopper photos:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/displayrailway.pl?o=nhn


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

cv_acr, thanks for your reply and confirmation, I really appreciate it. I guess I will buy the Shapeways models since it seems like that's my only pre-made option. Luckily I don't need that many... probably only 2 or 3. Most of the fleet will be the 2 bay hoppers. I commend you for scratchbuilding those hoppers, I would never have the patience for that!!!

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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Overkast said:


> I commend you for scratchbuilding those hoppers, I would never have the patience for that!!!


Well, just like your dilemma (since it's the exact same car), I could find models that were either the right (or at least similar) size, or number of ribs/panels, but not both. These are also modern welded cars so has a rather different feel than a riveted car which any similar model would be (and square welded posts and lack of rivets makes the scratchbuild easier...).

So, my options are to accept an incorrect stand-in with the wrong features and rib spacing, or make my own.

And when you get into scratchbuilding projects, it's actually kind of enjoyable.


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