# Lionel HO



## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

60's era Lionel HO loco's, are they AC or DC? IOW will they run on todays HO transformers?


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Not sure about that era. I have 3 modern Lionel HO locomotives (2 HO UP Veranda's and 1 HO Challenger). They have DCC and sound and can run on conventional DC power. Pretty sure all Lionel HO is DC regardless of he decade. The only AC HO scale trains that I know of are Marklin. I have read that AC trains can run on AC or DC but DC trains cannot run on AC. I am sure someone with more knowledge will chime in soon.
-Art


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I checked a 1964 Lionel Catalog. DC was in for HO, the accessories were AC. The transformers were No. 0101, 0103, 0102, and 0104 being the largest. The sizes were .8 tp 2.5 amps. We know in the 70's DC motors were outfitted into O scale engines using DC transformers. Soon after they ran on AC using an electronic e unit to convert the current to DC.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Art,
what do you mean you have 3 modern Lionel HO scale engines? Lionel has not made HO scale engines since at tleast the 70s if not farther back. I don't even recall them making those models either. The only companys that make the veranda turbines and the challenger are Atheran, MTH, and I believe also BLI. Those are the only companys that would have put DCC into them as well. Please clarify what you ,mean by modern Lionel HO.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Nope, Lionel made 2 models around 2004 (not sure of the year). They made the Verranda and the Challenger. Lionel got sued over the design of the challenger and they lost many millions of dollars so they decided to get out of the HO market again. Do a google search for Lionel HO challenger or Veranda and you will see. I bought them because I wanted them as collectors items for my son to go with my dad's and grandfathers O Lionels. The Veranda was sold at deep discounts when I got them. I paid about $260 for each. This is what got me back into the hobby. Here is the PDF for the Veranda's instructions quick start:
http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/75-8100-251.pdf
full instruction manual:
http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/75-8100-250.pdf
-Art


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I looked at the UP Veranda and I must say. It looks like Lionel did a good job on them with DCC and QSI sound to boot. I think I might get me one from Lionel eventually as MTh is just to expensive and non DCC friendly and Athearn did not sell them with sound or when they released the ones with it it used Tsunami which has given me engine startup and shutdown problems in the apst. Plus why not give Lionel a chance to redeem themselves. I am not sure about the whole traction tire thing though. Art why does it have them and how well does it do?


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

gc53dfgc said:


> I looked at the UP Veranda and I must say. It looks like Lionel did a good job on them with DCC and QSI sound to boot. I think I might get me one from Lionel eventually as MTh is just to expensive and non DCC friendly and Athearn did not sell them with sound or when they released the ones with it it used Tsunami which has given me engine startup and shutdown problems in the apst. Plus why not give Lionel a chance to redeem themselves. I am not sure about the whole traction tire thing though. Art why does it have them and how well does it do?


Never noticed any traction tires. It's a well built model. For the year it was produced it had dual speakers and QSI sound very advanced for 2004. Retail price was $499 Only way to get one is used as they have been out of production for many years now. I have searched online and seen them go as high as $1000 on ebay. Good luck finding one. If you want a Veranda I would get an Athearn and add a sound chip. I have seen some Turbine's at my LHS (Athearn) they look pretty nice.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

well I found a lionel veranda right now for 225.00. I just don't ahve the money for one right now.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Here is another link:
http://www.internethobbies.com/lihoscunpa.html
-Art


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

You should get it at that price GC. I would never sell mine. They have been added to the Lionel family heirloom collection. I do like to run them here and there because the sound of the turbine is very unique and the Mars light looks really cool. One of these days I gotta get my second one out of it's box and run them as a consist to see just how many cars the 2 of them will pull.:thumbsup::thumbsup: I am hoping that someone will make a model of the experimental coal burning UP turbine in HO scale. I saw one in brass once but too rich for my blood.
-Art


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

That locomotive is a beast!. Two five pole skew wound motors with dual flywheels on each, Two speakers, all 16 wheel pickup, tons of lighting features, voice prompted programing system, pony engine sound when in yards or startup, and most likely all 16 wheel drive. That thing has no need for traction tires. I bet it could easily pull 60 cars at a 0 percent grade no problem. Well I know what my Christmas present will be, just have to wait till it gets closer to christmas.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

With a "buy it now" type pricing it might still be there when you get the money. If Lionel still made models like this I would have them all (well I do but "all" is only 2 models LOL). The box it came in is very very nice. No flaps to tear off. Very thick cardboard with shiny lettering. Nice retro Lionel logo. The top pulls off from the bottom so the box should last a lifetime. 

Here is what the box looks like:








-Art


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Well I know if I am getting one that it will not be new for long as I use all the locomotive I own and even would if it was a 1K Brass Blue Comet which I also plan on getting some time and it will get use as well so for those that do not like to see new trains run sorry but thats how I roll. I am a collector of the engines but I also run every single one as well. Guess I like both aspects huh. I must say that Lionel should have kept making these HO scale engines. I would be a lot happier to pay the 400 for Lionel compared to MTH as Lionel gets there engines right and does not try to be super proprietary like MTH has. Plus it seems like Lionel was offering more features then MTH at the time as well.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There's a Challenger for $325, looks in like-new condition. There are also several others up to $999, so that looks to be a pretty good price.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Early Lionels were made by Athearn, then labeled by Lionel. Cox did the same thing a few years later.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Shay, are you talking about Lionel HO there? Why do I recall reading somewhere that very early Lionel HO was made by Rivarossi? Can you confirm / clarify that?

TJ


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

This is true TJ but Art and me are talking about the newer Lionel HOs that were made in 2004 and they are up their in detail and features/running well like MTH or BLi locomotives. Those two runs of engines we are talking about are the only recent ones made by lionel and the best they ever made. I am actually thinki9ng of getting a Lionel HO engine now.


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

Athearn made some of the early Lionel stuff as well; I recall a GE rectifier locomotive in Virginian livery. They were the rubber band drive variety.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Here is my #71 Veranda in it's original box. I also have #64.
-Art









Super nice box:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I could not find any HO listed in the modern catalogs 2000 and up. hwell:


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

T-Man said:


> I could not find any HO listed in the modern catalogs 2000 and up. hwell:


T-man,
I posted this link earlier in this thread but here it is again:
http://www.internethobbies.com/lihoscunpa.html
I bought 2 of these around 2004 or 2005. Those were the only years they were offered. I think the HO challenger was around 2004 and the Veranda around 2005 not sure of the exact dates.
-Art


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Artieiii said:


> T-man,
> I posted this link earlier in this thread but here it is again:
> http://www.internethobbies.com/lihoscunpa.html
> I bought 2 of these around 2004 or 2005. Those were the only years they were offered. I think the HO challenger was around 2004 and the Veranda around 2005 not sure of the exact dates.
> -Art


How much do you want for them?


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

big ed said:


> How much do you want for them?


Not for sale as long as I am still breathing. I bought them for my son who could care less about trains. That's what got me back into the hobby.
-Art


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Artieiii said:


> Not for sale as long as I am still breathing. I bought them for my son who could care less about trains. That's what got me back into the hobby.
> -Art



Good.... I am running out of room.:laugh:

Do you run them?


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

hell yeah i run em! I just ordered a six pack of PFE reefer cars to run with them.
-Art


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Artieiii said:


> T-man,
> I posted this link earlier in this thread but here it is again:
> http://www.internethobbies.com/lihoscunpa.html
> I bought 2 of these around 2004 or 2005. Those were the only years they were offered. I think the HO challenger was around 2004 and the Veranda around 2005 not sure of the exact dates.
> -Art


Thanks, but I was curious if it made their standard catalog.
It is impressive and good tidbit of information to know.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

tjcruiser said:


> Shay, are you talking about Lionel HO there? Why do I recall reading somewhere that very early Lionel HO was made by Rivarossi? Can you confirm / clarify that?
> 
> TJ


Yes, Rivarossi did indeed offer the first Lionel HO with Athearn following behind them...check out a Lionel Hustler to see the Athearn heritage... The rectifiers were made by Athearn for Lionel as well.

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/lionelho1970scatalogresource/

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/athearnlocomotives/id224.html


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, Shay ...

I think we should start calling you Wikishay ... I'm amazed at how much model rr history you have bouncing around in your head. :thumbsup:

TJ


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks, Shay ...
> 
> I think we should start calling you Wikishay ... I'm amazed at how much model rr history you have bouncing around in your head. :thumbsup:
> 
> TJ


Great wisdom = Google + good key words acquired over 35+ years in hobby :thumbsup:


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