# Finally - a circle!



## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

As I do from time-to-time, I post under my daughter's account. This is another one of those times.

I took the piece of 4'x4', 1" thick MDF and set it on the dining room table, and proceded to lay the cork roadbed, then a 4' circle of flex track to run her trains. She was sleeping, so it should be a cool surprise for her in the morning.

The run is absolutely silent, even with the heaviest Athearn DDA40X. It's not the smoothest run, particularly where the final patch of track was cut and inserted to complete the circle. The DDA40X will complete its laps, but the front axel will not stay on - it sort of floats just off the track. The BLI AC6000 also loses one axel, but still runs the circle with no problem. The KATO SD90MAC runs without issue, all the way around. So smooth. Both the Athearn Turbine and U50 run perfectly as well, having 4 sets of trucks each. That makes the tracking easier, I suppose. Lastly, the Athearn F-7A is right at home on the 24" radius. I don't have any pictures, but there's not much to see, anyways. I really just wanted to get _something_ running, and to make sure the grease doesn't get all rancid. That's all for now (from me, at least).


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

if it's a four foot piece, you are probably closer to a 22 inch radius, it's measured to the center of the track.. you want want to take a nail in the center and a piece of string and check for spots where the radius varies a bit, might have to wiggle it a bit...
and check the problem locos to see it isn't getting tight or binding a little on tight curves, some will run better left hand or right hand curve, four axle of any kind should be okay on 18 inch or larger..
but congratulations on getting them running...
it's great fun watching them.....


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

I did find the center of the board and tied a string around it, with a pencil on the other end to make a reference circle near the edges. I followed it reasonably close, but I know it's not perfect just by watching the trains go around it. I think I might stop by Arnie's Trains tomorrow afternoon and pick up new track and connectors. Some new cork roadbed, too.


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## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

agreed, a 4x4 would only make a 22 radius


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If you are going to replace the track consider
staggered joints. Cut one rail a couple inches
longer than the other then slide the long rail
back into the tie plates. That will aid in holding
gauge and avoiding kinks which are so easy to
get on curves. Maybe the pickier locos will 
stay on the track.

Don


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Don - if I were to stagger the joints like you mentioned, how does the coupling sleeve fit? Would I have to remove the tie? That wouldn't look too awful good.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Sasha

The joiner (sleeve) would fit on the rails as usual.

You should always use a small file to smooth the rail
at the cut. The joiners slip on easier.

When you cut as I describe, you'll then pull the rails
out of the ties. You'll remove a couple
of ties, then carefully slide the long rails back into
the little clamps on the ties. (when you make the cuts
it'll be apparent to you) Then connect with the
joiners. If that leaves a gap in the ties, glue
in the ones you had to cut off so you'll have a nice
complete looking joint. Use pins to hold it in place
with no kink until the glue sets.

Don


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

This is starting to look like a lot of work! What's the skinny on using track that comes premounted on plastic interlocking roadbed? Anyone know what the largest radius turns are for that type of track? The Kid still wants five tracks, so a variety of different-sized curves would help a lot.

Thanks!

- Doug


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## njv1805 (Jan 6, 2014)

Bachmann EZ track has 15, 18, and 22 inch curves. Atlas True track has 18, 22, and 24 inch curves. I'm sure there's other pre-ballast tracks out there but those are the normal sizes. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the way the tracks connect to each other are proprietary so you have to stick with one brand. The Atlas True track is easily removed from the prefab bed so if that's what you're looking to do down the road it might be a better choice. I've heard of people removing the bed from the EZ track successfully, but I've heard more people removing it unsuccessfully.

My 2 cents.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

*Hammer time?*

Of those of you who use the little nails to tack down your flex track, do you hammer them in so it just barely contacts the plastic tie? Or do you hammer it down tight, so that the tie is pinned tightly to the roadbed?

Thanks!


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## Old Bill (Nov 28, 2013)

I nail the track to where the nail just contacks the tie,
not to bend the tie any but holds frimly.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If you do use the nails you should go lightly, do not hammer
them in as it will distort or break the ties. Also, the nail
head should be low enuf so as not to foul locos and
cars.

Most of us prefer gluing the flex track down. You pin the
track to hold it in place until the glue sets, then remove
the pins.

Don


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks, guys!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Your daughter is the UP Sasha? I just never made that connection. She has a neat collection of Union Pacific locos and she knows about them too. Nice young lady. . Pete


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## Bone1977 (Jan 17, 2014)

You want it just barely touching, if you do it tight you run the risk of flexing the track. A small nail punch and steady pressure is more than enough to drive it through the road bed and foam. If driving into wood same thing, just use a small tack hammer to gently drive it in.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

norgale said:


> Your daughter is the UP Sasha? I just never made that connection. She has a neat collection of Union Pacific locos and she knows about them too. Nice young lady. . Pete


Yes, that's The Kid. "UP Sasha" - she'll like that title. She loves her trains. I'm just glad she has a hobby outside of her cell phone! I'll try to keep her interested for as long as I can. I bought her an illustrated history book on the railroad. Interesting stuff.

Thank you all for welcoming us into your terrific community!


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm looking to try out a few new manufacturers for the Union Pacific Playland roster. I want to try Intermountain, LifeLike Proto 2000, MTH and Atlas. Any other manufacturer suggestions that produce HO scale Union Pacific diesels or turbines? Thanks!


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

I have the Athearn Turbine and tender. Road number 65. I got it at my LHS for $157 after Athearn decided to quit making them. NIMT did the lighting and cleaned up my Tsunami install.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks. We already have one of those. It's a nice machine to be sure. :thumbsup:


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## Old Bill (Nov 28, 2013)

I have several Intermoutain railway locos, They all run great, have a lifetime warrantry
and are a local company. The detail is outstanding on my 4 Ho's


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

After learning about an inherent cracked gear problem with Life-Like Proto 2000s, I think I'll be looking at Atlas, Intermountain and MTH to try next for The Kid. I don't mind workiing on trains and doing what I think is good for them, but _knowing_ I'll have to upon buying something brand new? That's different.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

You can't beat Atlas for my money. Pete


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## oldhobbie reborn (Jan 15, 2014)

I push them in with pliers to the point of contact,,,no hammers,may distort gauge if driven to tight


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

I would just replace the gears. Cheaper in the long run and will give you experience doing maintenance work on the Protos.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks, guys! I'm still learning all this stuff. Dad does the work mostly, but I'm learning to do it too. So I can just buy a set of wheels from Athearn and replace the Proto 2000 axels/wheels and they will fit and mesh properly?

Also - I have an Athearn Blue Box AC4400 with a clicking in the front truck - I think it's the center axel, but I can't seem to get the bottom cover off the truck. Anyone know how to remove that bottom panel?

Thanks again!


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Sasha, on the Proto's, just replace the gears. The Proto wheels are better that Athearn's sintered wheels. The newer Athearn wheels are good now.

To remove the bottom covers, use a fine blade flat head screwdriver to pry it off from the side of the truck. There are tabs to have released.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Aren't there gears on the axels? Would I have to replace those gears, too?  Also - what do you mean by "sintered" wheels? Thanks!


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Dad's back...

I'm looking at an InterMountain GE ES44AC and an MTH EMD SD70ACE. If I can find a new Atlas GE 8-40CW, I'd like to try that, too.

If I knew that the MTH SD70ACE had all steel wheels and no traction tires, I might buy it right now. I don't want any traction tires - I want all wheels to be electrical pickup (and drive) wheels. Anyone know if this MTH model has traction tires or not?

Thanks.

- Dad


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

So nobody knows whether or not the MTH SD70ACE has all steel wheels and no traction tires? I really want to try it out for The Kid, but I really want locomotives with all-steel wheels.

Anyone? Thanks!

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Guess nobody knows Fasha. I didn't think anybody used tires anymore but I' don't know for sure. Pete


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

I don't think they sell traction tires for new model diesel since it was old design.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Well I know that the Gas Turbine MTH sells uses 4 traction tires, whiich is why I asked.

@norgale - What's a "Fasha"?


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Sasha said:


> Aren't there gears on the axels? Would I have to replace those gears, too? Also - what do you mean by "sintered" wheels? Thanks!



Yes, there are gears on the axles. If they are not cracked, then no need to replace them. I have had the big gear crack in an Athearn blue box SD40-2.

Sintered wheels are basically metal bits pressed together using heat and high pressure. That is why they are not shiny, and why some people will replace them with nickle silver.

Oh, Calumet does make replacement traction tires for diesel and steam engines. The diesel ones should fit the MTH Turbine. Or use a product called Bullfrog Snot. It will take a few layers to fill in the groove where the traction tire goes.

I have the Athearn Turbine, #65. No traction tires on it.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Unbeknownst to Sasha, I pulled the trigger on the MTH SD70ACE a few minutes ago.

The Intermountain ES44AC will be next... perhaps in a few weeks. Can't spoil The Kid too much.

After searching and not finding any Proto 2000 models that fit the scheme of Union Pacific Playland, I guess I won't have to worry about that little 'cracked axel' problem afterall. 

- Dad


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Sasha said:


> @norgale - What's a "Fasha"?


That is Pete slurring his words.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

We do have a member (I Am Fasha).
Fasha.....Sasha.

Pete just had a b-day, this is what happens when you get old. 
You forget while your typing who your typing to.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Ah yes - I do recall seeing I AM FASHA now!

I'm 45, so I know a little about forgetting things... not exactly my favorite part of being over-the-hill.

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

I seem to have mixed up my Fasha's and my Sasha's. Typographical error and a coincidence to boot. Sorry for the screw up. Pete


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm terrible - I went ahead and bought the InterMountain ES44AC for Sasha. I hope it's as good as it looks. Same with the MTH SD70ACE. I'm hoping they're as good as the KATO and the Broadway Limited engines we have.

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Hey Dad! Intermountain is a good name in model railroading. Not to worry. Pete


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Thank you, Pete! Now if I could get the same reassurance from someone about MTH in HO scale... not that it matters now - I already bought it!

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

MTH is a good name too but it's a mixed bag for what you get. Some guys have a lot of problems with new in the box locos from them and some have no problems at all. I've never had any MTH stuff so can't tell you much about them. Hope you'll let us know what happens with yours. Pete


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

I was thinking we (Sasha & I) would compare a number of them after these two engines get here. Athearn, KATO, Broadway Limited, MTH and Intermountain. All the engine sizes are similar, except for the Athearn, but we'll give a rundown on performance and detailing. The performance aspect is more important for me, so we'll see how things go.

I wish Bowser, Atlas and Life-Like Proto 2000 made models that we want for our roster... then we could compare those manufacturers, too!

I was thinking about buying one of *THESE* for comparing performance. Just a thought.

- Dad


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

The MTH SD70ACE arrived today. Runs very smooth, looks real pretty. Does anyone know how to get the shell off of the chassis? I have examined it and cannot find any tabs or places to squeeze, like some other manufacturers.

Thanks!

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Well lets see what the thing looks like.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

I'll have to wait until I can get a decent picture of it. Soon!


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

The Intermountain ES44AC came yesterday. A little lighter than I had hoped. Runs very smooth and quiet, but has a built-in 'speed control', whereas it responds very slowly for a more realistic performance. I don't like it. So - I popped the shell off, bypassed those circuits and carefully added some weight. The guts of the machine are pretty simple. The motor isn't real big, but the flywheels are the biggest in my roster, I think. Very big.

I will eventually add a little more weight, but I am still trying to figure out how to remove the shell of the MTH SD70ACE without ruining it. I'd love a little guidance on that one.

- Dad


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

My big power transformer have flywheel switch like off or on. When it turned on, it moves slowly to speed up. Also it have 10 amps to adjust to get more power.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

When I bought my M.T.H. train, I went to their website (mthtrains.com), selected 'Service' and then 'Parts' to get the exploded diagrams. From there, I could see the locomotive is assembled. I'm pretty sure that you're going to be happy with with M.T.H. They put a page right in the front of MR magazine dispelling myths and explaining using DCC, couplers, analog DC, speed matching, Proto 3 sound quality with DCS and DCC, and consisting with other brand locomotives. I visited the manufacturing plant before Thanksgiving, and everything is top-shelf and very professional. I posted some photos that I took in the M.T.H. Showroom a while back.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, guys!

I looked at the exploded view and all that, but I couldn't find anything comprehensive about pulling the shell off. I'll get it, but it's taking longer than I anticipated. Damn it.

- Dad


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

I found the information from train orders about removing the shell.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,2105278


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

I tried. I pushed and pulled but got nowhere, really. I'm too afraid to break something. I may have to employ a third, more experienced party to do it for me. Not my favorite method of modification, but I will if I have to.

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

From the instruction in Rustys link I think I wouldn't mess with the darned thing. Send it back to MTH for repair. Peter the Great


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

There's nothing to repair. I just have some modifying to do. As it is, it runs like new.

- Dad


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

My main issue with the MTH SD70ACE is that it has a built-in speed 'control', a lot like the Intermountain I got the other day. It's for 'realistic' slow speeds, but I want to have full DC control, without any extra circuits to go through from the rails to the motor. I tried again tonight, but still no dice. I'm not worried about any warranties, but I don't want to break the thing, either. Frustrating.

- Dad


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

What kind of power transformer are you using? How many watts? How many amps? I noticed the small power transformer make it slow,so I switched to bigger power transformer, it did move more speed...


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

You just keep looking at it whenever you have a chance and all of a sudden you'll see what needs to be done. Let's face it, it went together so it has to come apart. Once you find the key part everything else will fall out on the bench. Maybe post a pic of the plans you found for that engine. Somebody may have experience with this and doesn't realize what your looking for. Pete


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Rusty said:


> What kind of power transformer are you using? How many watts? How many amps? I noticed the small power transformer make it slow,so I switched to bigger power transformer, it did move more speed...


I'm using a fully-functional MRC 550. It's rated @33 VA. No shortage of power there. I can run over 10 big locomotives on it, including double-diesels.



Pete said:


> You just keep looking at it whenever you have a chance and all of a sudden you'll see what needs to be done. Let's face it, it went together so it has to come apart. Once you find the key part everything else will fall out on the bench. Maybe post a pic of the plans you found for that engine. Somebody may have experience with this and doesn't realize what your looking for.


That's exactly what I have been doing. Night after night, I look at it from a different angle so-to-speak and try popping it apart again. I'll have another go at it later on today.

- Dad


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

Do you have switch like Full - Pulse?


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Yes, there is a "FULL / PULSE" switch. I never use "PULSE", as I have heard it can damage the DC motors.

The problem has *nothing* to do with the transformer(s). It is a circuit inside of the locomotive itself. That's why I need to remove the shell. I have done this for two other locomotives already.

- Dad


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

I heard there were problems about MTH trains, Send it back to get refund. I don't buy the MTH trains.


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

The train is _awesome_. It's detailed well, runs beautifully smooth and strong, and it's quiet as a mouse.

I will *not* return it. Both Sasha and I like it a lot, so I am going to find out how to remove the shell and I will modify what needs modifying to transform it into operating the way we want it to.

- Dad


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

*Success!*

Alright - I finally found the official instructions for pulling the M.T.H. SD70ACE apart. Not too difficult if you do it exactly as instructed. I converted the wiring to straight DC and replaced all the LEDs. I also added about 2 ounces or so of centered weight. Runs like a champ and looks even better than when I first got it! Success!

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

That's a PITA way to take an engine apart. Looks like major surgery to me but at least you found out how to get to the insides. Pete


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Sasha & I put down a second circle inside of the original. Measured to the inside rails, the inside circle has a 21.5" radius, while the outer circle sports a 23" radius. It's great watching the trains run side-by-side and in opposite directions. I have an MRC 501 wired to the inner circle.

I don't know if she wants to bother trying out any scenery on this tiny layout. I think we should wait until we find a much larger place for a proper layout.

She's really happy with the two latest locomotive additions. They're stong, quiet and really pretty. We still want to try something from Atlas and something from Proto 2000.

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

You don't know it yet Dad but your already on your way to a bigger place with room for the trains. You and Sasha have been bitten by the train bug and it's just a matter of time before you find the room you need and start your layout. Don't worry about the scenery now just be accumulating stuff for the train set and pretty soon you'll be building along with the rest of us. Pete


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

We have an extra room that is sorta a day room. We might use it for the trains! Neither of us have ever built scenery like mountains and such but all we can do is try!-* Sasha*


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

If you have an extra room then by all means use it for a train room. You have no idea how much pleasure you will get from building a layout and that includes scenery. It's the most relaxing and satisfying thing you can imagine. Heck,give it a whirl but do the basic planning of the table and track on paper first. That gives you something to start with but don't worry about making any changes as you go along. Changes are inevitable.
One thing,try NOT to secure anything to any walls. If you ever have to move you won't be left with tons of holes in a wall to fix. Pete


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## Sasha (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks, Pete. We won't have to move, but I think The Kid may have gotten ahead of me on that one. That 'extra' room is only 11'x11' and it's a TV room, complete with a couch, coffee table, a large TV and a sound system. As it stands, there is no room for any train setup. She pretty much knows that. We talked about it, and it's merely a slim possibility. Can't blame her for trying, though!

- Dad


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Leave the TV and the sound sytem and throw everything else out. I see no problem. Ha!


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