# Lionel 255E question



## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi, I'm new to the forum and need some advice. I have a Lionel 255E engine that was given to me by the original owner but he did not have the tender and cars, or for that matter anything else that goes with it. He did at one point have the entire set but over the years it disappeared. Although I don't know how it is mechanically, appearance wise it looks to be in excellent condition.

I finally have a grandson and would like to locate and purchase the tender and cars that would have originally came with a set that included the 255E. My question is, what cars and tender came with it when new? With this information I can then begin to search for them.

Thank you for any help or advice you can give me.

Nick


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

David Doyle's Standard Catalog of Lionen Trains, 1900-1942 offers:

255E ... Produced in 1935 and 1936, only, and not available for separate sale, thise 2-4-2 was paired with a 263W whistle tender in sets.

His appendix lists:

Set 276W, 1935 passenger train, 255E loco, 613 Pullman, 614 Observation, 615 Baggage (and presumably the tender).

My (digital) 1936 catalog lists:

Set 275W, 1936 freight train, 255E loco, 263W tender, 812 gondola with barrels, 814 box car with sliding doors, 817 caboose with ladders and railings, 66 whistle and reversing controller, track (8 curved, 4 straight), OTC lockon. Price: $25.00 !

An old Lionel service sheet says the 255E shared the same body and frame as the 263 loco.

Hope that helps,

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Here's some 'net photo examples of the sets ... (scroll down, if needed) ...

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/sear...relevance&dtype=gallery&type=complete&rows=20

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/sear...mage=true&dtype=gallery&type=complete&rows=20

Also, it looks like Lionel/MTH made a recent repro freight set ...

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/11-6005-1

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

From the pictures I can tell it is a very nice engine. I wanted to discuss the frame that the boiler sits on. If it is cast use some care when handling it. A common cause is breakage of the frame if it is dropped. The 262 and the 249e have these frames. Metal can be rebent but cast is more difficult. Congratulations you have a good friend.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hudson, are you there? I'm bumping your own thread, in case you're still curious.

TJ


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm still here. Copied your information and now know what to look for and what the original sets looked like.

Thanks for the information, I'll update if I find them.

Nick


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I would like to see your engine. Post a picture? Even thought I answer questions about a lot of items, most of them I don't own. I wish you luck on finding a tender. It won't be easy nor cheep. A 265 might help in the meantime.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

I'll take a few photos of it and attach them to my next post. As far as finding the tender, etc., I'm hoping someone somewhere has a set with a bad engine but good tender and cars that I can purchase along with some track and accessories. I realize that these are not cheap but assume that it would be worth it to have a complete set in original condition.

Nick


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

T-man. I took 5 photos of the engine. In looking at it closely, it seems to be in very good condition. All of the wheels, etc. turn freely, it has the light bulbs and very minimal rust on the top rear edge, the flags are missing but that seems to be about it.

Now, how do I add photos to my posts?

Nick


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

*Photos*

I just found this advance reply section, I'll attempt to add the photos. It didn't work, said a security token was missing??? Can you tell me how to get these on here?

Nick


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

It may be that your photos are too large ... too many pixels. Resize down to 1600x1200 or smaller, and then try reloading.

Click on the Go Advanced tab, below, and from there, click on the paper clip icon to open an Attachment window. From there, Browse to each of your photos, and then Upload them ... we'll see a little icon in your post, which we can click on to open the pics.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You may also have to have ten posts to do it.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

I'll try sending only one. I don't know how to make my photos smaller, I'm not really that good with computers however I do know that I can send them as attachments to e-mails.

Here goes,

It worked, I'll try adding two this time.

Here are the final two.

Nick


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nick,

I merged your 3 most recent posts, and embedded the pics so we can all see them easily, without having to click on the icons. And ...

WOW! That's a great looking loco, in very nice shape for its age, with all original parts intact. I love all of the nickel piping on the boiler shell ... classy!

Do be careful about the boiler front casting ... it appears that the upper part of that (the pivot that sticks above the boiler) is degrading due to metal alloy breakdown ... a (sad) common occurence with some zinc-based Lionel alloy castings. Reproduction castings are available, though that may be a premature option for you. I would consider getting some clear sealer or paint on that pivot, though, to protect it from further decay.

Thanks for posting the pics ... I think this is the first 255 "close up" that we've seen on our forum.

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The piece that is corroded is the latch for the smokebox door. It is separate from the smokebox door. It is a "model" of an Elesco feedwater heater. At least, I think that is what Lionel intended. It is a little too small.
BB


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The pictures are great. Thanks! This engine is very high class. One dome shows a hint of a dent but otherwise it has done remarkedly well. I do have a 249e that is similiar but I am not sure by how much. You do have a notched screw that holds the rod on the wheel. Never seen one like that before. You may have to make a wrench to fit it.

What's next?
You have a nice gunmetal finish. No repaint warranted here, it would destroy the value.
I love the Lionel boiler plate on the side.
The rods are gummed with grease, so clean them. Goo Gone, oil or thinner will work. Don't use anything abrasive. Soak a cotton ball and let it sit.
If you remove any screws try not to break them a tight fitting screwdriver is important. Two small screws in front hold the front boiler face in. Just above the forward wheels. The holes in the frame are threaded so everthing has to line up when placing the screws back in. I had to press the top forward for the holes to line up. Don't force them or the threads will get crossed.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks for your replies. I will put a clear sealer on the corroded part to protect it and will clean it well with light oil or goo-gone and put it back on the shelf. My next step will be to start looking for the tender, cars, track and transformer to have a complete set for him to enjoy and hopefully pass down to a few more generations. I was told yesterday by the original owners sister that when there mother died they couldn't take everything from her house and that the cars were rusted so the decided to keep only the engine which at that time was still running and hopefully still is, she doesn't remember what happened to the tracks and accessories, most likely were in the same discarded box.

Thanks you all again for all of the information and advice, it is really appreciated,

Nick


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Pictures*










The screw in the stack holds a plate that the litle heater sits on. You may have to loosen that to get the front off.










If you want to see any more 249e pictures.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Bruce -- good call ... "latch" as you said ... not "pivot" as I had said. Thanks.

T-Man -- great pics of the 249 ... a clear, revealing look under the hood!

TJ


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Is there a way to know if this engine is 1935 as part of the 276W set or 1936 and part of the 275W set? I would like to know which it is before I start searching for the balance of the set and the tender. Also, if anyone has the cars that I need for sale, please let me know.

Thanks

Nick


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Here is a hint for everyone. When you reassemble the loco, put some 5W-20 oil on each of the screws. That way they will come out again in 20 years.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

hudson said:


> Is there a way to know if this engine is 1935 as part of the 276W set or 1936 and part of the 275W set?


Nick,

In my reading, there's no unique features on the loco that would identify whether it was '35 or '36, or part of either set. Flip a coin?

TJ

===

Bruce -- good tip to lube the mount screws! :thumbsup:


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Drilling out a broken screw that is in a piece of die cast is probably impossible. A little oil could save a lot of bad words and frustration. Also, many of the screws Lionel used are not readily available.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

I found the cars 812, 814, and 817 along with the tender but had to buy another engine to get the entire set. This engine is in remarkable condition, it actually puts the other one to shame, it even has the flags. The cars are in amazing original condition also and the gondola has 4 barrels, it also came with the whistle control and all of the original boxes. I will try to get a couple photos on over the next couple days, got tied up with Christmas and my camera is full. Don't know if this engine works either but it sure looks good. I still would like to find a period transformer and tracks.

Nick


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nick,

Sounds like a nice find. Every car salesman's dream, too ... guy comes in to the dealership to have his clunker fixed ... ends up walking out with a shiny new car!

Enjoy that sweet new car smell!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It looks like someone really GREASED that engine up!

Most likely, that is antique grease. collectable.

I can see the Servoguy's face when he saw that grease......>:smilie_daumenneg:

I am willing to bet that the whole motor has that grease job too.

The pictures look good, nice and clear.:thumbsup:

Nice engine you have there.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Here are photos of the complete set with the second engine. I forgot to put the flags on, they're in one of the barrels. Hope they come through OK.

Nick


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR (Jun 17, 2011)

Nick - 

Nothing showed up in the thread.

- Paul


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks Paul, I'll try it again later.

Nick


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Big Ed, I like the grease. It often will dry out and cause the loco to stop running. I bought a 736 that way about 3 years ago, and it was easy to fix. I think many locos were kept in the closet because the grease had dried out and they wouldn't run, thus preserving them. 

You can soften the dried grease with oil (5W-20 so it doesn't dry out again), thus restoring the loco to operation. There isn't any real need to remove the dried grease except for any great excess.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

I'll try adding a photo again now. It didn't work, says upload failed. I don't know how to reduce the size so I'm at a loss on how to get these on here.

Nick


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Virtually any photo edit software will let you downsize the pixels in a photo. Even old-school MS Paint can do it ... Resize option.

I'd target 1600 x 1200 max for upload here ... smaller if you can ... say 800 x 600 or so.

On the bottom here, Go Advanced, paper clip icon to Browse and then Upload your photos.

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I think you can use Word to downsize photos.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

I tried to downsize one photo and will see if it works here, I'm really not good at this but I think it worked.

Thanks

Nick


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That's a good size.

Click you image link.
Copy the url and paste it to the postcard icon.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nick,

Fabulous looking train ... my jealously meter is red-lining at this point, though ...

TJ


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Maybe your meter is just out of calibration.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Big Ed, I like the grease. It often will dry out and cause the loco to stop running. I bought a 736 that way about 3 years ago, and it was easy to fix. I think many locos were kept in the closet because the grease had dried out and they wouldn't run, thus preserving them.
> 
> You can soften the dried grease with oil (5W-20 so it doesn't dry out again), thus restoring the loco to operation. There isn't any real need to remove the dried grease except for any great excess.


I never saw anyone use that much grease on the running rods.:laugh:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

hudson said:


> I'll try sending only one. I don't know how to make my photos smaller, I'm not really that good with computers however I do know that I can send them as attachments to e-mails.
> 
> Here goes,
> 
> ...




What happened to the grease pictures?
I just saw your newest picture, does the engine have front wheels? Or are they missing?








Love the tender, you have a nice set.:thumbsup:


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

I still have the first one with the heavy grease on it which I cleaned off and oiled, this photo is of the one I had to purchase to get the tender and cars that I needed. After I find out if they run or not, I'll most likely sell off this engine and keep the first one as it has sentimental value with it. It does have front wheels, I just noticed that in the photo, they were turned in. This engine is much cleaner than the other one and very few marks on it. It has a red bulb under it and the other one is clear.

Nick


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

As most of you can tell, I'm not very knowledgable about these old trains so I have another question. First, what size track to I need for the 255E set mentioned above, and what do I need to hook up a transformer? Second, what is a decent period transformer model number that I should be looking for or should I go with something more modern?

Thanks for any help.

Nick


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nick,

For a 255, I'd shy away from the smaller O27 track (lower height rails, smaller turn diameter), and go with standard O track (O31 or larger diameter). Basic 3-rail tubular track is fine, but you certainly could consider high-end Gargraves or similar.

For tubular, you can attach the transformer wires to the track with a simple "LockOn" clip.

There's a wide range of transformers available, with different things to consider: output wattage, internal bell/whistle controls, control 1 or 2 trains (blocked sections of track, really), etc. Postwar Lionel transformers were built to last, and can be nearly as good as new with a little t.l.c. I'd suggest you consider a 1033 transformer as a research starting point.

TJ


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Well I'm back on this again. I found that the 1033 is readily available so I bought one on e-bay but don't have any tracks yet. I've been looking at tracks on e-bay and I can't tell if they're good or bad, usable or not, 031 or whatever. Is there somewhere else to go to buy whatever else I need for a basic setup including what you called a "lock on" clip. Again, I am naive when it comes to this stuff but I would like to get this set up and going in the next few weeks. I have two very heavy fomica covered fiber board folding tables that would combine to make a 60 x 72" layout it you think that would work,your help and advice is appreciated. I have this trains set still sitting where it was when I took the photo in January, I wipe it with a feather duster once a month or so but don't know if leaving it out will hurt it, I could use a little advice on that subject too.

Thanks again,

Nick


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

hudson said:


> Well I'm back on this again. I found that the 1033 is readily available so I bought one on e-bay but don't have any tracks yet. I've been looking at tracks on e-bay and I can't tell if they're good or bad, usable or not, 031 or whatever. Is there somewhere else to go to buy whatever else I need for a basic setup including what you called a "lock on" clip. Again, I am naive when it comes to this stuff but I would like to get this set up and going in the next few weeks. I have two very heavy fomica covered fiber board folding tables that would combine to make a 60 x 72" layout it you think that would work,your help and advice is appreciated. I have this trains set still sitting where it was when I took the photo in January, I wipe it with a feather duster once a month or so but don't know if leaving it out will hurt it, I could use a little advice on that subject too.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Nick


First time I saw this Nick, while searching for 255e info on the site.

So......What happened to the pictures that were here with the grease?

O/27 tube track is smaller in height then the O track. Most O/27 track has brown ties most O track has black ties. The O is a heavier gauged material for the tubes that make up the rails. Your better off with the O, especially when you start adding switches.
The difference,







A lockon the piece you attach to the track for power. They sell some lighted versions. Some just solder the wire to the underside of the track. You don't have to use a lockon.








You are not going to hurt the train just sitting it out for display, UNLESS YOU DROP IT.
Just dust it some and I would keep it away from heavy, hot sunlight.


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Ed, I don't know what happened to the photos of the first one, just red X appears on my post. I did clean all of the grease off that I could get to without taking it apart, that is one of the engines that I can't get to run, the other photo above showing the entire set contains the other engine that I did get to run but then stopped. I did find some O gauge track and a lockon just like the one you show on your post. I think I'm going to take both of these to a model train shop as I'm afraid to take them apart and wouldn't know how to replace brushes if that's what they need. I'll keep my other post updated and hopefully will have photos of both of them on the tracks.

Thanks for your advice,

Nick


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

hudson said:


> Ed, I don't know what happened to the photos of the first one, just red X appears on my post. I did clean all of the grease off that I could get to without taking it apart, that is one of the engines that I can't get to run, the other photo above showing the entire set contains the other engine that I did get to run but then stopped. I did find some O gauge track and a lockon just like the one you show on your post. I think I'm going to take both of these to a model train shop as I'm afraid to take them apart and wouldn't know how to replace brushes if that's what they need. I'll keep my other post updated and hopefully will have photos of both of them on the tracks.
> 
> Thanks for your advice,
> 
> Nick



The red X, I have dealt with that here before.

It is more intimidating then it looks. Do it once and you will see how easy it is to pop the shell/(body) off.

I will show my 2065 Lionel I saved from the dump pile.
It was tossed aside to be buried and forgotten.Poor little engine.
From this thread,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7467

See the underside I think there were 5 screws, and then you see the guts. Simple as that. Unscrew the screws and the shell comes off.








And the rest is all there, no pulling the wheels. 

If you look at the motor with the shell off, see the brush plate 2 screws hold it on. That is where you see the wires, see where the brushes sit over the 2 rear drive wheels. Pop that plate off and from normal use it gets dirty clean all up and it runs 100% better.

See behind the light bulb that is the smoke unit, behind that is the e unit. Move the lever you will see where contacts a plate for the different positions either three spots or two depending on the e unit. If that lever is not contacting the plate your engine won't work right. Or it may just be a loose wire. It may be something simple to fix.









I kept out individual details on how to do all you need to do to clean and check the parts out, if you decide to try, all the O guys I know will also help. 


You will save money and learn in the meantime. All engines will need basic servicing at one point.

We here, will walk you through, but it is your choice, expect to pay big bucks just for someone to do something that would be simple to fix.

Worst come to worst just bring it to the repair man in pieces.
If he knows anything he should know where they go.

I am only kidding, I am trying to show how easy it is to pop the shell off to take a look.

Read my thread (above link) on that old engine, at first it did nothing, now it runs like a rocket and basically all I did was clean everything up. That might have been sitting in the dump pile for months.
Give it a try, what do you have to lose?


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## hudson (Nov 10, 2011)

Okay,

It's another day and I think you have convinced me to give it a try. I'll start with one of them so at least I can look at the other if I have a problem. I'll let you know how it goes.

Nick


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