# Want to start first layout but have two questions



## Burbs (Mar 28, 2014)

So I posted yesterday that I went to my first show and thought about waiting until we move but I've decided that I would like to start now, even though we'll be moving (hopefully) in a year or so into a house. Because of what I want to do, it's brought up a couple of questions:

1) I have a small space that I can put a table to start my layout, once I come up with what I want to do. The plan is to do HO scale on a 4x6 layout. Assuming I come up with an idea within a year, what do I do with my small layout when we move to a bigger house? I'm going to assume that I may want to make my layout even bigger, therefore how can I incorporate it with a bigger build.

2) What about multiple scenes/layouts? I like the idea of having different scenes/freight and passenger operations, can I incorporate different scenes/freight & passenger operations into a layout? Is that against any unwritten rules or is this hobby all about using the imagination and anything goes?

Thanks for reading and appreciate any feedback.

Chris


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

There's only one rule...it's your layout and you do whatever you want with it in term of scheme,era,area,train types,etc.

However,there are geometrical laws that you can't ignore.For instance,you can't built much of an HO layout on 4X6,even with a lot of imagination.Even with N scale,it's not much room to work with but you'd have a better chance to come up with something more interesting.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Cris

Your imagination is what will give you great
enjoyment as you create your layout. You
are the man who makes the rules for
your layout. The only 'rules' you need
observe are the electric and mechanical ones
required for a smooth operation. 

Check out
the various videos and photos in our layout
forums. It will show you how various layouts
combine freight and passenger operations.

When I'm in the mood for train running as opposed
to switching operations, I will have a long freight
going counter clockwise and a passenger train going
clockwise but ducking into passing sidings where the
depots are when the two trains meet on my single
track DCC layout.

There's not a whole lot you can do with a 
4 X 6 layout, but it will give you the
experience that will do you well when you
get the room to expand. You'll likely have a
single track oval with a few turnouts to
spurs or maybe a very small yard.

I'm a big fan of modular construction and since
you will be moving at some point it could make
that and the eventual expansion easier.

Get 1 X 3 lumber. Make a couple 3 X 3 frames.
Or better, if you have the room, 4 X 4.
Use screws, not nails to fasten them. Use the
same for L shape legs that fit in the corners.
If 3 X 3s you probably will need only 4 legs.

Use 3 ply plywood for lightness as the tops. 

The modules are then bolted together. Drill
holes in the connecting frame so you can
pass wires through.

Get 1 or 2 inch blue or pink foam to top it
all. It will act as a sound deadner.

There is one thing that you can do toward scenery
and the like. Determine what buildings you will want
on your future larger layout. Practice scratch building
them. It's a very satisfying part of the hobby. Start
with a yard shack, for example, and as time passes
move on to larger buildings.

And I have to bring in my favorite subject, DCC. Study
it and plan to go that way if you intend to have a larger
layout. Only with DCC can you run your trains as I
described above.

Don


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## RT_Coker (Dec 6, 2012)

Chris,
For your situation (HO, temporary limited space, and future move), I would suggest the following:

Start with a switching layout on a 24” x 80” slab-sided-hollow-core-door (HCD). Then (if still in the apartment) add a second unconnected ~24” x 80” slab-sided-hollow-core-door. Then (if still in the apartment and if you can temporarily get a larger space on a ~flat floor) connect the two HCDs into a temporary loop with some extra track and some wood blocks.

But first use some software to plan the temporary layout and maybe even a couple of future dream layouts.
Bob


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## Burbs (Mar 28, 2014)

_Sorry Bob I was typing this and didn't see your post_

I didn't realize that a 4x6 would too small (total newbie). hwell:

Is there a good starting size that could accommodate what I'm striving for? I don't have to put everything I want on it right away, I can just build towards it. Or am I better off just waiting until we buy a house then? Is there a chance I can at least put a small freight operation together on a 4x6? 

Thanks,

Chris


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

Chris, Bob has a very good suggestion about software.
There are several that are free and work well. The choice is yours on which you use.
SCRAM is about the most popular but, the are others also.
Check this out on the web.

Start designing a layout you would like in the future. This may take you several months to do.
Most first layouts and some intermediate layouts are not well designed in just a few days.
Even the most experienced will take months to design correctly.

I have been working on several ideas for a year before I settled on the one I have and I am planing on changing it as soon as I get it running.

I am not a expert, I am a newbie to model railroading.
I have been through most of the pains and frustrations of designing a nice working layout.

Design, change, design some more then change it again, several times.
By the time you finally get something like you think you want you may be in your new home. 

Model railroading takes a lot of time and effort to get it the want you want it.
BUT, it is so much fun and very rewarding to watch it come to life.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby.


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

I don't have a layout anymore other than a simple oval test track. I just like restoring old trains and playing with them rather than running a layout. I have seen some unbelievably beautiful layouts on this forum which are a tribute to the creativity and dedication of the enthusiasts. I recall with great pleasure the layout my dad made when I was a kid in the early 50's on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. it was O and 027 and was microscopic relative to the layouts around these days. However, he made the most of the available acreage. there was an elevated section that connected to the lower via a long curved ramp. there were tunnels, bridges, towns, lights, landscaping and so on. that memory is always with me when I work on an old Lionel steamer. So, I think you can probably come up with a pretty nice HO layout in a small space with a mind for future expansion. good luck.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

If you want some ideas check out ericstrains on YouTube. Its your railroad do as you see fit. I always like to have a track plan laid out first. Than scene around it


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## MRLdave (Nov 1, 2011)

I have a home layout, and also do NTRAK, which is done using 2 X 4 ft modules, plus corner modules. If you put 4 corners together, you get a 6 ft circle. Add a couple of 2 X 4s and you get a 6 X 10 oval. We have enough pieces to get 130 ft of mainline (X 4 lines) and can now do L, T, and U shapes as well as round. The point is you can do your layout in pieces. You just have to have a rough plan. So you could do a switching layout as Bob suggested, but if you know you want to add to it, you just plan in the "connections" you'll use later to tie things together........could be as simple as a mainline running along one side that will tie into the mainline of the next section. You don't necessarily need to know what the next section will be.......just that there will be another section.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, first of all, forget the word rules (unless its for operations on your railroad). Your layout, your rules. If you want to run steam locomotives in a modern era layout, go for it. If you want to model a wrecked circus train and elephants stampeding down Main Street, go for it. It you think scenery just gets in the way, that's fine too. This layout has to make one person happy, and that's you. As someone mentioned, you can't violate the laws of physics, but tbat's really it.

Also, 4x6 in HO isn't impossible by any means, it's just very limiting.

I would go modular in your situation. Woodland scenics sells prefab ones, to which you add your own track and structures and use the scenery materials included with the kit. Or you can make your own. A piece of 2" foamboard (2'x8') on a frame of 1x3 lumber is a great module base. They are fairly easy to move, and can be expanded as desired, in a straight line, or L, C, E, H, or O arrangements. Modules are more suited to point-to-point operations than continuous running, but you can make that work by adding bulbs at each end.

Multiple scenes can be accomplished by the simple expedient of putting a backdrop down the center of your layout. They are called, appropriately enough, scenic dividers, when used in this manner. It allows you to have two completely different, but interconnected, settings, one on each side.


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## Burbs (Mar 28, 2014)

WOW! Thank you very much for all the advice, it's greatly appreciated. Obviously I have a lot of things to think about and as some have mentioned, planning takes time. I downloaded SCARM and you guys aren't kidding, I can definitely see the layout planning taking a few months at least. I've used the "create baseboard" feature and I'm planning a 4x8 layout, since that's the standard plywood size.

One question I do have, I have seen some layouts with an inner and outer loop and I'm curious as to what radius I'll need. Any feedback?

Thanks again guys.

Chris


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

As far as I know sectional track comes in 22" radius and 18" radius.
22" will take about 46", as big as you can get on a 48" wide layout, minimum and an 18" inside.
Some smaller radii are available but, should not be used unless there is no other way.
Most trains don't really like radii smaller than 18"

I never used the "Create Baseboard" feature.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Sectional track for HO scale can be found in radii from 15", 18", 22", 24", and even larger, but that's rare. Then there is flex track, which can be shaped into any radius from a lower limit of about 9" (where the ties actually pinch together on up. As Dale said, though, very little HO equipment will do 15" radius, and while most manufacturers advertise that their stuff will take an 18" radius, take that number with a grain of salt. Just because the car or locomotive stays on the rails doesn't mean it won't look silly going around a tiny curve, or even overhang so much as to interfere with other cars and locomotives. For a very rough rule of thumb, a curve should be at least twice the radius of the longest piece of equipment that will use it.

What radius do you NEED? You tell us. How much space can you devote to it. 48" allows you to use 22" radis (44" with a 2" border between the track and the layout edge), at 2-1/2" between track centers, you need 18" for the inner loop. Or you can make a continuous 18" loop on the inside, and 18" corners separated by a short straignt section on the outside. That's if you're trying to stick to a sheet of plywood. Most folks who aim for more realism don't do rectangles, though, because they're not very realistic. That said, a 4x8 with a scenic divider making two 2x8 strips can be a nice layout.


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## Burbs (Mar 28, 2014)

Actually, what you wrote is good information and pretty much is what I'm thinking. Thanks CTValley.


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

Chris, see my reply to your "first show" post. If you do start to build a 4'x6', if you make the legs removable (screwed rather than glued or nailed) and just set a few buildings around, you can just lift the buildings off and pop the legs so you can remove the board intact. Avoid mountains or other scenery items not so easily dealt with; they can come later, when they have a permanent home. When you move, you can always add on- you might even want to make a new plan and start over. Passenger and freight operations were intermixed from the start. Feel free to use both. 
I know that now that you have been bitten by the bug, you want to get something started and haveabout a bajillion ideas screaming for attention inside your head. Relax, they aren't going to disappear; take your time. Get started right. No matter what you think today, that 4x6 will be unrecognizable in a couple of years- but it's a great place to start.


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## Burbs (Mar 28, 2014)

jesteck said:


> Chris, see my reply to your "first show" post. If you do start to build a 4'x6', if you make the legs removable (screwed rather than glued or nailed) and just set a few buildings around, you can just lift the buildings off and pop the legs so you can remove the board intact. Avoid mountains or other scenery items not so easily dealt with; they can come later, when they have a permanent home. When you move, you can always add on- you might even want to make a new plan and start over. Passenger and freight operations were intermixed from the start. Feel free to use both.
> 
> I know that now that you have been bitten by the bug, you want to get something started and haveabout a bajillion ideas screaming for attention inside your head. Relax, they aren't going to disappear; take your time. Get started right. No matter what you think today, that 4x6 will be unrecognizable in a couple of years- but it's a great place to start.



Boy you couldn't be more right, the ideas are really screaming in my head. But I'm not the most patient person in the world.


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## Shadowplayer (Oct 31, 2014)

Dont let size limit you at all. I have a 4.5x9 right now and for what I designed it was more than enough. Obviously I would like to have a 100x200' layout, but I dont have that kind of room. With a little planning a small layout can be a very impressive endeavor.


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## Burbs (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks for sharing shadowplayer.


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