# Car Float, carfloat, car barge



## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

Since I am currently working on a carfloat scene for my new layout. I thought I would do a search on this forum for such subjects.

i was surprised there was very discussion(s) of this subject,...or did I do my search incorrectly


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Can you describe or show a picture of just what you mean? I can think of several different things the term might refer to.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Lee Willis said:


> Can you describe or show a picture of just what you mean? I can think of several different things the term might refer to.


Really? 'Cause maybe my imagination is limited but I can't.... although I can thing of several different variations of designs for railroad car ferries - some fully self-propelled powered ferries, some just plain open barges with rails that get moved around with a tugboat - but it's all the same concept: moving rail cars by water.

Lots of variations on a theme actually, but just one overall concept.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I suspect it's the last one here.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

LOL Bob! Here's one video I found, there are countless others.


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

Good video Tom C.
Did he do a second one,...a follow up one he mentions?

BTW Walthers did a number of kits related to car floats.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

No idea. Probably check his YT channel.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

cv_acr said:


> Really? 'Cause maybe my imagination is limited but I can't.... although I can thing of several different variations of designs for railroad car ferries - some fully self-propelled powered ferries, some just plain open barges with rails that get moved around with a tugboat - but it's all the same concept: moving rail cars by water.
> 
> Lots of variations on a theme actually, but just one overall concept.



Interesting: I never heard an automobile ferry called a car float. Most of the time olks mean something like that very cool dragon, os something like is in the Rose Bowl parade.


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

You might be AMAZED at the extensiveness of carfloat operation in the past,...
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/developmenttransferbridge.html#Development

History of Early Carfloating

Understanding the Differences between "Carferrying" and "Carfloating"

The Advent of Carfloating


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

railandsail said:


> Since I am currently working on a carfloat scene for my new layout. I thought I would do a search on this forum for such subjects.
> 
> i was surprised there was very discussion(s) of this subject,...or did I do my search incorrectly


I think years ago we did have someone that made one.
It takes up a lot of room for O scale.

What are you doing it in HO?
N scale would be perfect to model these.

Here is one way to get more on the space you have on a car float,










New York Harbor had many of these coming out of the old CNJ Communipaw (Jersey City) terminal. 

1941










1946


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

*WOW, fantastic images*

WOW, thanks for those images. I don't think I've seen those before. Do you happen to know who took them, or their source? 

I would like to repost them on another forum, but some 'back-seat lawyers' get upset about that.


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

*HO central peninsula*

Yes I am doing a new layout in HO scale. Its a double deck, around the wall, with a central peninsula.....inside its own Handi-house shed. 

This is the original Tupper Lake/Faust Junction peninsula track plan I was using as inspiration.










That plan had a passenger train station in the peninsula area. My new plan is going to be much more 'industrialized' , and that station location is now becoming a container terminal zone.


By happenstance I ran across a carfloat model at our local flea market. What if I were to put that out on the end of my peninsula across from my other waterfront scene? ...another tug boat barge item....a port facility .


Here is where I first placed that original peninsula scene over my tentative layout plan at first,..









...to be continued


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

*Initial mock-up of new peninsula*


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

railandsail said:


> WOW, thanks for those images. I don't think I've seen those before. Do you happen to know who took them, or their source?
> 
> I would like to repost them on another forum, but some 'back-seat lawyers' get upset about that.



Courtesy of the New Jersey State Archives at Trenton, the one picture has on the lower right corner who took them.
There are other shots of this terminal out there on the net.









Have you ever heard of the Black Tom explosion?
1916......happened there. Statue of Liberty sits right off Black Tom.

A wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tom_explosion

Edit, a google search of pictures of the damage I don't know how the link will work for you,
https://www.google.com/search?q=bla...Uo1VkKHZL_CxEQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1600&bih=746


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Where will you place the car floats?


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

That long blue item is the car float I picked up at a flea market (surprised you can say) . 









It is made in 2 parts so I will likely arrange it like this,..


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

railandsail said:


> That long blue item is the car float I picked up at a flea market (surprised you can say) . It is made in 2 parts so i will likel arrange it like this,..
> XXX


OK. I see it, I thought you were going to make up some barges.
I wonder why it is made in two pieces? Two barges would have been better?
Now you need a tug boat. Or two?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

There is a dozen or so photos of carfloats and transfer bridges in Triumph V (Messer & Roberts). Maybe another dozen or so of facilities that support transfer operations such as freight buildings and livestock yards. Its probably not worth it for you to get the book though unless you are a PRR fan.

Try an image search for transfer bridges to get some ideas.

Never knew that some carfloats had switches.


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

Big Ed said:


> OK. I see it, I thought you were going to make up some barges.
> I wonder why it is made in two pieces? Two barges would have been better?
> Now you need a tug boat. Or two?


Perhaps they made it in 2 pieces for shipping purposes. If I were going to full length barges I might have oped for 2 side by side, but I don't have enough room.

Besides that I was considering placing the access track for my carfloat down the center of my pier terminal building like this.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A Tug boat makes it better. :thumbsup:

Notice the pilings.


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

*Tugs and other barges*

Ed, that is a nice looking scene.

Yes I have several tugs,...and other barges. Here are a few alternative mock-ups I've played with.

'white tug shape' next to carfloat









material barge in that dock slip









tug and barge in that slip









island, small cargo freighter in that slip










Across the aisle from the peninsula point, there is another water front scene that fits in that recess. It has several tug boats,..

















waterfront scene I got from an estate sale


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Wow! I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.:thumbsup: I saw many railroad tugs and barges in the 50's in New York Harbor.


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

*Harbor Explosions*



Big Ed said:


> Have you ever heard of the Black Tom explosion?
> 1916......happened there. Statue of Liberty sits right off Black Tom.
> 
> A wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tom_explosion
> ...


Up till this point I thought the harbor explosion in Halifax NS was the largest,...now not so sure??

*Halifax Explosion*
On 6 December 1917 SS Imo and SS Mont-Blanc collided in the harbour of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Mont-Blanc carried 2,653 tonnes of various explosives, mostly picric acid. After the collision the ship caught fire, drifted into town, and exploded. 1,950 people were killed and much of Halifax was destroyed. An evaluation of the explosion's force puts it at 2.9 kilotons of TNT (12 TJ).[22] Halifax historian Jay White in 1994 concluded "Halifax Harbour remains unchallenged in overall magnitude as long as five criteria are considered together: number of casualties, force of blast, radius of devastation, quantity of explosive material, and total value of property destroyed."

...just found this...
* Black Tom explosion*
On 30 July 1916, sabotage by German agents caused 1,000 short tons (910 t) of explosives bound for Europe, along with another 50 short tons (45 t) on Johnson Barge No. 17, to explode in Jersey City, New Jersey, a major dock serving New York. There were few deaths, but about 100 injuries. Damage included buildings on Ellis Island, parts of the Statue of Liberty, and much of Jersey City.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That was a big one in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
A lot died !

I was pointing out the terminal for the car floats and figured I would add the Black Tom incident out to those who didn't know about it.

Tell me........do you keep changing the footprint under the float?
Seems to change a lot.
Your tug boats looks too large, is it that big?

Did you paint the float blue or did it come that color?

I like the waterfront scene and the sand?/ore? barge you got.
I still think the tugs footprint looks a tad too large along side of it.


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## Atlanta (Apr 29, 2019)

Hey Ya'll,

me I did some trackplanning about of such RR Barges in combination with a timesaver and inglenook onto two modular segments for small space shunting.










The blue inked tracks are marking the carfloat barge.









Handrawn onto a piece of paper my Idea of a track plan. The numbers showing the max possible cars per each of track.

Planned in H0 Scale with Code 120 Brass Tracks from Fleischmann all Turnouts are having 15° Frog Angle of diverging route.

Layout Dimensions 59 1/4" x 59 1/4" 

14 possible 36' feet cars and up to two Box Cab Diesel and Tank Shunting Locos.

Ya Ingo


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

Blue Barge: 
It came that way,...rather strange. I''ll likely have to strip it,...or just paint it some rusty colors, since these steel decks were seldom smooth steel,...lots of rusty steel, and some debris.

Tug Size:
That's the 'footprint size' of the Walthers one 13" long, 3.5" wide.


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

*Black Tom incident*

Actually thank you for posting it. The reason I knew about Halifax explosion is that I have a friend who has a summer house in Lunenburg NS that I have visited several times. Nearest major city is Halifax.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Atlanta said:


> Hey Ya'll,
> 
> me I did some trackplanning about of such RR Barges in combination with a timesaver and inglenook onto two modular segments for small space shunting.
> 
> ...


It seems to me that you would have to have the locos push cars on to the barge because of the locomotive weight. Without a way to turn the loco it will get stuck behind the cars in the dead end red and green tracks at the top of the layout. You have the potential for a passing siding at the top in green but I think you have to make it longer.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Car float*



railandsail said:


> Since I am currently working on a carfloat scene for my new layout. I thought I would do a search on this forum for such subjects.
> 
> i was surprised there was very discussion(s) of this subject,...or did I do my search incorrectly


railandsail;

Here's some photos of my N-scale car float. I made it from a scrap piece of 1x4 lumber. The tug is a commercial model with added details.

Have fun! 

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

railandsail said:


> Blue Barge:
> It came that way,...rather strange. I''ll likely have to strip it,...or just paint it some rusty colors, since these steel decks were seldom smooth steel,...lots of rusty steel, and some debris.
> 
> Tug Size:
> That's the 'footprint size' of the Walthers one 13" long, 3.5" wide.


I thought maybe they had some blue ones where ever your at.
I never saw a blue one.
Not to say there are no blue ones out there.
I like the color of your sand? ore? barge.

I still say that the foot print of your tug looks too big.
See traction's picture? The tug only takes up around half of the float.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

traction fan said:


> railandsail;
> 
> Here's some photos of my N-scale car float. I made it from a scrap piece of 1x4 lumber. The tug is a commercial model with added details.
> 
> ...


Sweet, nice work, I like . :smilie_daumenpos:

Whats the button control?
Edit, never mind I missed the picture saying LIGHTS

Edit again,
It would be nice to add a smoke unit somehow to the tug?


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

Big Ed said:


> I still say that the foot print of your tug looks too big.
> See traction's picture? The tug only takes up around half of the float.


I agree, a bit too big. But if you take a look at that photo I posted previously with the 'white tug footprint next to the full length carfloat, its only just over half its length.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah it looks OK now along side the whole thing.
Maybe it was this one I was thinking about?












What is this going to be? A cruise ship?


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## railandsail (Jan 28, 2009)

relatively small island freighter


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Smoke unit?*



Big Ed said:


> Sweet, nice work, I like . :smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> Whats the button control?
> Edit, never mind I missed the picture saying LIGHTS
> ...


Big Ed;

I don't have any experience with smoke units, (not many of them in N-scale as far as I know.)
The tug, including it's funnel (sailor talk for smoke stack) is plastic. I think a hot smoke unit would melt the plastic. So, I think I'll stick with the painted cotton "smoke." 

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Scotty (Oct 25, 2013)

Car floats were used during the American Civil War. Most were made by lashing river or canal barges/boats together.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

traction fan said:


> Big Ed;
> 
> I don't have any experience with smoke units, (not many of them in N-scale as far as I know.)
> The tug, including it's funnel (sailor talk for smoke stack) is plastic. I think a hot smoke unit would melt the plastic. So, I think I'll stick with the painted cotton "smoke."
> ...


We called them stacks in the navy, unless they had antennae attached, then they were macks, (mast and stack).


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

You might look into the "Seattle & North Coast" They (and the Milwaukee Road before them) barged railcars from Seattle to and from the paper mills in Port Townsend, WA. 

This link has an pic of the Port Townsend dock on a glorious day on the Salish Sea: http://railfan.com/railroads-and-the-sea/


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