# Did British and European Railroads Use Cabooses?



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but I've learned a lot over the years asking them. 

Did railroads in the UK and Europe in the 20th century use cabooses, or some equivalent? A car at the end of the train, for accomodation of crew and observation of the train for trouble? I like my Bobber cabooses so much I thought I'd look in the mTh catalog and buy some European cabooses, expecting them to be small (most rolling stock was) and two-axle like their 20th century rolling stock. None offered. I googled for British and European cabooses and came up empty . . . 

From Wikipedia and some Googling I know the Brits had _brake vans: _vaguely caboose like in appearance but without a cupola. They seem to have had a different purpose though, at least primarily, and they were not always located at the end of a train. The name itself is fascinating: early on they were called "break vans" because several were interspersed in a train to break up the rolling stock with one located every so often throughout the train. Later they were called brake vans because their major roll was to provide braking for speed control since many British freight trains did not have brakes on any rolling stock. They were also eventually also sometimes called guard vans because the brakeman positioned in each was called a "guard."

I don't know nearly what I should about British trains and railroads: I was just assuming, like us, they had cabooses.


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## DirtPiper (Dec 24, 2013)

Brake vans are the closest you'll get.

Some of them had cupolas on the sides, but none were as advanced as good old american cabooses.

Not a stupid question at all, I've asked it before too.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

I once had an all caboose train. Then, it got too long, so I set an all Bobber caboose train. I have done some really weird things in the past. I only hope I am able to keep up the tendency. I like to swim upstream, go against the grain, and do something no one else has done, because it's fun. Thanks LEE :appl:


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

If you look at some of the old bing items they have a tinplate version that should give you some ideas.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Apologies if this is a stupid question, but I've learned a lot over the years asking them.


We all have



BobS said:


> I once had an all caboose train. Then, it got too long, so I set an all Bobber caboose train. I have done some really weird things in the past. I only hope I am able to keep up the tendency. I like to swim upstream, go against the grain, and do something no one else has done, because it's fun. Thanks LEE :appl:


Bob, I have often thought about doing this. Having looked over my collection, I realized I have a lot of cabooses. Pulling them all out and lining them up behind a favorite locomotive would make a hell of a train to show off.


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

I have traveled to Portugal six times, and while my knowledge of Comboios de Portugal (or Trains of Portugal) is limited, I know CP did operate 12 Alco RSC-2 diesels #1501-1512 from 1948 and lasting until the early 1990s. These were 1688mm Iberian gauge units.

There is a Portuguese language article on these units which can be translated by using Google Chrome:

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Série_1500_da_CP

Portugal later purchased 20 diesel units from Montreal Locomotive Works.

http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/portugal/portugal_cp_del.html

Sorry I don't more information but my real interest is Lisbon's four wheel trams of which I have taken 1715 photos during 6 trips. By comparison I only have 50 photos of trains and none of them are freight trains.

I have never seen a Portuguese caboose, but I suspect their rolling stock would have followed in the van direction.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

BobS said:


> I once had an all caboose train. Then, it got too long, so I set an all Bobber caboose train. I have done some really weird things in the past. I only hope I am able to keep up the tendency. I like to swim upstream, go against the grain, and do something no one else has done, because it's fun. Thanks LEE :appl:


An all caboose train. That is a capital idea! Wow. I have to try that!

Weird things are fun, I agree.


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

Lee Willis said:


> An all caboose train. That is a capital idea! Wow. I have to try that!
> 
> Weird things are fun, I agree.


I do have a bunch of post war cabooses......we should do that as a photo theme.....I would need some time to dig them out though.


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## mikew (Jun 19, 2015)

Hi Lee,

Over hear in the Uk the brake van was the norm. Its primary purpose was to house the train guard (conductor) and provide rear of train braking. In the days before vacuum/air braking a goods (freight) train would be brought to a halt before a sharp descent and wagon brakes would be set by hand via a drop leaver on the side before proceeding. The fireman normally took care of much of this.

The thing to remember about the Uk is distances are shorter and also our freight trains tended to be shorter but ,much more frequent so the need for accommodation as per the caboose was not required. 

If you are after a 0 gauge Uk brake van I am sure Darsted or Ace make them.

CHEERS MIKE


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

Dapol offers O gauge brake vans.

http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1515


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

first of all, thanks everyone for the responses. Quite interesting.




captaincog said:


> I do have a bunch of post war cabooses......we should do that as a photo theme.....I would need some time to dig them out though.


Actually, a nice caboose thread would be nice. And all-caboose trains are a great idea - I don't have that many cabooses. But I have a War Caboose, that must count for something - most people don't have a war caboose.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

BobS said:


> I once had an all caboose train.


We had a caboose night at the club once. Everyone brought in all their cabeese and we ran a large caboose train. It was a lot of fun and certainly different from the normal running night.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

PatKn said:


> We had a caboose night at the club once. Everyone brought in all their cabeese and we ran a large caboose train. It was a lot of fun and certainly different from the normal running night.


i'd have to put rear couplers on about 1/2 of minehwell:


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