# Scarce As a Hen's Tooth? Info about AF's 1946 310...



## Strummer

Now that I'm the proud owner of one,I'd like to get more info about it. There does not,however,seem to be a great deal on information out there on this particular engine. I have been able to deduce the year,given the fact that it has the brass "buttons" on the underside of the chassis, and the tender is lettered "Pennsylvania", not "American Flyer".

Does anyone out there have a link to an exploded diagram,or just some general info?

I will say it runs beautifully, is very "easy on the eyes"...and it's 66 years old to boot!!!

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

This does not show a 310 specifically, but I believe the 312 and 310 are very much alike except for cosmetics.....

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album209?page=7


----------



## flyernut

Your engine was made in 1946, and is the rarer of the 2, (46 vs 47). Value wise it's a little more expensive than the "American Flyer Lines" tender. I believe the only difference between the 310 and 312, 312AC, is they put the e-unit in the tender. Yours is a K-5, just like the 312, 312AC. Nice little engine. I have a 312AC and a 312.


----------



## Strummer

Thanks guys,for responding. What I find interesting is that you both said the 310 is "just like",or "very much the same" to the 312. Yes,it is based on the same prototype,but it's "innards" are quite different. The 310 has the reverse unit in the boiler,not the tender,and it does not have the smoke unit. 
So I guess my real question would be: is the approach to maintenance pretty much the same i.e; would the disassembly sequence be about the same, and are the motor brushes the same?
Many thanks in advance.

Mark in Oregon


----------



## flyernut

Strummer said:


> Thanks guys,for responding. What I find interesting is that you both said the 310 is "just like",or "very much the same" to the 312. Yes,it is based on the same prototype,but it's "innards" are quite different. The 310 has the reverse unit in the boiler,not the tender,and it does not have the smoke unit.
> So I guess my real question would be: is the approach to maintenance pretty much the same i.e; would the disassembly sequence be about the same, and are the motor brushes the same?
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> Mark in Oregon


Tear down is essentially the same Mark.The brushes (PA9603) should be the same as any AF loco., according to my books.One thing to remember; take a good close-up photo of the linkage on both sides. You must get it back on the same way it came off. Almost like quartering. If you don't get it right, it will bind and not work. Once everything is put back on, spin the armature to make sure the linkages are not binding. I had to guess my way through my tear down of my 312AC. There's a thread on it if you would like to see it.. Not a good thread, but there none the less.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

For the inside the boiler reverse unit, you might be able to use the Atlantic 300 series engines for assistance -- they had the reverse unit in the boiler like your 310. But the parts are all the same.


----------



## Strummer

flyernut said:


> Tear down is essentially the same Mark.The brushes (PA9603) should be the same as any AF loco., according to my books.


Ok,now we're getting somewhere! A check of eBay this morning shows these slotted brushes are available,so that's good news. 
Thanks.

Mark in Oregon


----------



## flyernut

Strummer said:


> Ok,now we're getting somewhere! A check of eBay this morning shows these slotted brushes are available,so that's good news.
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark in Oregon


The brushes and brush springs are a extremely common item.


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> For the inside the boiler reverse unit, you might be able to use the Atlantic 300 series engines for assistance -- they had the reverse unit in the boiler like your 310. But the parts are all the same.


Just the 300 Atlantic....


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Sorry, I meant the 300 or 300AC when I stated 300 series. The 350 Royal Blue also has the reverse unit in the boiler. The slotted brushes and those springs were used in earlier Flyer steamers before they switched to shouldered springs. Both types are commonly available at various Flyer parts dealers and quite cheap.


----------



## Strummer

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Sorry, I meant the 300 or 300AC when I stated 300 series. The 350 Royal Blue also has the reverse unit in the boiler. The slotted brushes and those springs were used in earlier Flyer steamers before they switched to shouldered springs. Both types are commonly available at various Flyer parts dealers and quite cheap.


Yes,I knew what you meant,thank you. And yes,they are readily available and I have some on their way,thanks!

Just as an aside, I will say I REALLY like the valve gear linkage on this;it's vastly superior to the cheaper stamped gear of later models...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## flyernut

Strummer said:


> Yes,I knew what you meant,thank you. And yes,they are readily available and I have some on their way,thanks!
> 
> Just as an aside, I will say I REALLY like the valve gear linkage on this;it's vastly superior to the cheaper stamped gear of later models...
> 
> Mark in Oregon


K-5's are pretty..


----------



## Strummer

I agree but (and I'm probably gonna catch h*ll for this), I do like the K-4 a bit better. I sometimes wonder why AF opted to do a model of an engine (the K5) that had only 2 examples built,as opposed to the K-4, of which the PRR had 425 made...? Now that I think about it, I need just one more 310 (or 312) and I'll have as many as the Pennsy!

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

OK, I'm out in left field again....what models are the K-4's? Maybe a little lesson here...which are the K-5's too?


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> OK, I'm out in left field again....what models are the K-4's? Maybe a little lesson here...which are the K-5's too?


I don't think AF made K-4's.. Put a K-4 and a K-5 next to each other and you probably couldn't tell the difference. There's a nice one at the PA State Railroad Museum down in Strasbourg.


----------



## Strummer

I know AF didn't make the K4; I mention that loco simply because I like it better. As far as I know,the biggest spotting feature between the two is that the "5" had the bell mounted beneath the headlight,whereas the "4's" bell was boiler-top mounted. The "5" was Pennsy's attempt to upgrade and make,if you will,a "super Pacific" to compete with the NYC's Hudson (which, of course,AF did make a model of)...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Kwikster

Here's a bit more on the Pennsy K series. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/?page=prr



K-4 photo

K-5 photo

Carl


----------



## flyernut

Kwikster said:


> Here's a bit more on the Pennsy K series. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/?page=prr
> 
> 
> 
> K-4 photo
> 
> K-5 photo
> 
> Carl


Sure are pretty!! One of my favorites....


----------



## Strummer

Kwikster said:


> Here's a bit more on the Pennsy K series. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/?page=prr
> 
> 
> 
> K-4 photo
> 
> K-5 photo
> 
> Carl


I think you can see by these shots that the K5 had a more "burly" look to it; like a K4 on steroids.

That K4 photo you posted is interesting,in that it appears to have disk drivers,something I did not know that class of engine ever had; must have been a rebuild...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Kwikster

Strummer said:


> That K4 photo you posted is interesting,in that it appears to have disk drivers,something I did not know that class of engine ever had; must have been a rebuild...
> 
> Mark in Oregon


It was one of two K-4s fitted with roller bearings. 

Carl


----------



## Strummer

I see. Man, I bet that thing could really fly...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## amer/flyer

Strummer, were can I get brush?


----------



## Strummer

If you mean brushes for the motor: I'm not really sure. I ordered a set from a reputable company on line,but they were too wide to work. They did not fit properly into the brush holders,so the springs were unable to push them against the commutator.

Perhaps someone can chime in here and help us both...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## amer/flyer

Thanks Mark, maybe so.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Looking in my brand spanking new American Flyer Steam Locomotive Service Manual from American Flyer Express, $65 free shipping, it shows the 310 to use the same brushes and springs as nearly all the steamers -- PA9603 brush, PA10757 brush spring -- these are available from many parts dealers. Although I specifically like using Doug Peck @ Port Lines Hobbies online. Provided his store is open (that is not closed to travel to a show somewhere) you can expect your order within a week or so. If brushes you got before do not fit, I'd suspect the brush holder to be incorrect or different than what is shown on these service pages. It should be part no. XA9565A and uses the brass slip-on brush contact caps. Hope this helps. Post any questions you may still have and I'll try to help.


----------



## Strummer

Hi Don

The 310 uses the slotted brush,held in place with the "V" shaped spring,not the coiled type.I did purchase the slotted brush,but as I say, the diameter was too large: I could get the brush into the brass holding "tube", but the fit was too snug, so the brush couldn't contact the armature face plate properly, and did not run.

I had to file down the diameter of the brush to make it work,but would prefer to be able to purchase the "right" item...

BTW, that is one smooth running machine, and can apparently pull a ton,as do all the die-cast AF steamers...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

So...is my service manual incorrect? I would sure like to know what the correct P.N. should be.....or if the brush bracket number is different from what is shown.

Where's Flyernut when you need him??


----------



## Strummer

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> So...is my service manual incorrect? I would sure like to know what the correct P.N. should be...


Oh,I'm not saying that! All I know is that my 310 has the slotted brushes,and are different from the later(?) 312 coiled spring types that show up in the drawings on,say,Hobby Surplus Sales many diagrams. This particular model also does not have the brass slide-on brush caps. 

And yes, I would also very much like to know "what the correct P.N. should be...". The slotted brushes I purchased were advertised as being for the SIT motor;I just assumed they would also fit the motor in the engine proper...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Is your brush holder to type with the springs that keep them in place? If so, I believe Port Lines hobby has those.


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> So...is my service manual incorrect? I would sure like to know what the correct P.N. should be.....or if the brush bracket number is different from what is shown.
> 
> Where's Flyernut when you need him??


Thou speaketh my name????...Lo, behold, this is part of the answer...The brushes that have the slot on the end of them for the spring type holder things without the shoulder should be .015 diameter, the same diameter as the shouldered brushes that use the coil spring. I believe the coil spring type would be a newer and better design. Perhaps the brushes you received where for another make?? I just bought new lower fingers for my 336 and have to take them back, as they were for a different make and got mixed up in the parts bin.Mistakes happen.. As for a part number for the slotted brushes, that I can't find .


----------



## mike costello

Slotted brush is: PA9603 Brush spring is: PA9566 Email Tom Seccia 0f Triple S Supplies at: [email protected]


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

According to Port Lines website, both types of brushes have the same P.N. which must be confusing as Hell. However, Doug will know which ones you want if you specify the slotted brushes. He also has the springs and brush holders should you wish to change yours....

http://64.251.10.24/~worldofw/cgi-b...ults.html/SID=3170025756/category=Motor Parts


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> According to Port Lines website, both types of brushes have the same P.N. which must be confusing as Hell. However, Doug will know which ones you want if you specify the slotted brushes. He also has the springs and brush holders should you wish to change yours....
> 
> http://64.251.10.24/~worldofw/cgi-b...ults.html/SID=3170025756/category=Motor Parts


I believe if you use the newer style brush holder assembly, you will need the armature that goes with it. I believe the armature is a different length on the slotted brush brush assembly.


----------



## Strummer

flyernut said:


> Thou speaketh my name????...Lo, behold, this is part of the answer...The brushes that have the slot on the end of them for the spring type holder things without the shoulder should be .015 diameter, the same diameter as the shouldered brushes that use the coil spring.


That's interesting. I also tried some shouldered brushes, and they too, were too "wide". There has to be a little play inside that tube, to allow for the brushes to "flex" and allow slight movement. Could it be my tubes are, for some reason, too small in diameter? I can't imagine that, as the brushes that were in the engine when I got it fit just fine....

Mark in Oregon


----------



## flyernut

Strummer said:


> That's interesting. I also tried some shouldered brushes, and they too, were too "wide". There has to be a little play inside that tube, to allow for the brushes to "flex" and allow slight movement. Could it be my tubes are, for some reason, too small in diameter? I can't imagine that, as the brushes that were in the engine when I got it fit just fine....
> 
> Mark in Oregon


Did you buy all the brushes from the same source?? Could be that source doesn't have the right diameter brushes. Check your "wide" brushes for diameter with a caliper for thickness. It should be .015 like I stated. Or, your brush tubes have crud in them??? Use a bore brush, maybe a .22 bore brush to scrub them out... Just saying... Loren


----------

