# Advice needed on an old AF S gauge.



## dstoch

I'm new to the forum and I have a few questions about my AF in got for Christmas in 1953. It's been in storage for about 50 years. Had the transformer rewired and I have power. Lots of sparks from the tender wheels. Probably lack of contact with old tracks and needs cleaning. 
Questions:

1. Runs a while then stops, engine hums but does not move. What could this be?
Cleaned the contacts and it runs again. 
2, Engine wheels do not turn by hand. Is this normal?
3. Where can I get smoke cartridges?
4. What is a good source for switches, track, and accessories ?
5. What is the best size wire to use for connections?

The tracks are in bad shape and I have ordered some replacements. I hope this makes a difference. 
My plan is to give it to my grandsons for Christmas and I would like to get in good order before then. 
Thanks for your help from an old novice.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

First things first, what number(s) is/are these items you are writing about? If we know this, we can be more specific to your needs.

As far as track, most AF track can be cleaned of dirt, rust, etc. and used again. Do you have the old AF tubular section track or the newer (1960's) Pikemaster track? I'm sure in either case the rust and dirt can be removed so it can be reused without issues. If you still wish to purchase more track and other track items, they can be found in various toy train shows that are held in your area, or you might find some from a member here in the forum. Even some hobby shops may have a box or two of the older track to sell. There are new types of track on the market to replace the old style and they work very well from what I've read in case you wish to go in that direction.

I assume you have a steamer when asking for smoke cartridges....I use the smoke fuid which is dispensed into the smoke stack by drops through an eye-dropper. It's available from most local hobby shops (LHS). American Flyer once produced smoke cartridges which were nothing more than a pre-measured amount of smoke fluid that were also dispensed into the smoke stack in much the same manner. I do not think they remake these cartridges any longer, but some originals are found at various toy train shows. However, I doubt the fluid would be useful after so many years, but you never know??

In an steamer, the wheels will not turn by hand due to the worm gear type design, but if you turn the armature of the motor, the wheels should rotate. My guess is the motor and all related electrical items should be disassembled and cleaned throughly of dirt, grease and other gunk. Old grease has a tendancy to turn into a waxy type substance over 50 years and will certainly keep these engines from running. The electrical connections may also be dirty or burned, especially those at the reverse unit. The reverse unit should be cleaned thoroughly of all dirt and grime so that it operates properly. The contacts must be undamaged and the contact drum must rotate freely in order for the power to be distributed to the engine's motor. If you need service instructions or detailed drawings of your specific items(s), let us know and be sure to post the item numbers for those you need. I or another member will try ot get them for you.

When you speak of wire connections, you need to specify which ones you are referring to....track power, the engine's motor, etc. For track feeds, most persons use 16-18 ga. stranded and depending on how large the layout is, you may need to add more feeders to prevent voltage loss over the longer distance. For a motor connection, the best I have found is a 4-conductor, 24 ga., stranded, cloth-wrapped wire between the engine tender and the engine's motor.

When you have the chance, please post the numbers of the items you have and if you can, post photos too. This will help immensely.

Hope this helps you.


----------



## dstoch

Thanks Don for the info.
I'm not finding any numbers but here is a couple of pics.


----------



## Strummer

Ah,the 290. One of the smoothest runners I have. I should think a good cleaning (especially those tender wheels!), some careful lubricating and you'll be off and running in fine shape.

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Strummer's got it -- the 290 is a good runner and it probably needs a good cleaning. Go to the link below where you will find exploded service drawings and parts lists for nearly all American Flyer items -- the 290 is listed in the Locomotives section. These will help you immensely.

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual

If you do not have any, get some spray contact cleaner -- Radio Shack carries it --and use that to liberally clean everything in the reverse unit and motor after disassembly. Clean the armature face with green scotchbrite or 2000 grit sandpaper. Also clean the drum of the reverse unit the same way. Check that the fingers in the reverse unit are not worn or burned through and bend them to be sure of good contact on the drum. Assure the drum rotates easily in the reverse unit. Be sure the motor brushes are of sufficient length and clean the brush bracket, also do not lose the brush springs. They have a tendency to spring out when the brush caps are removed. Check that they are still in good shape. Reassemble and use lube very sparingly in the proper areas. Check the wires to be sure they are still making good contact, solder any that are loose and you should be off and running in no time. If you need further assistance, just write to us again.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Forgot -- you can use rubbing alcohol to clean those tender wheels. It will take some elbow grease but it's worth it. Have a large supply of paper towels on hand for all of this.


----------



## flyernut

Welcome!!! Probably your track is dirty and/or rusty.. Give it a good cleaning using a "bright-boy", an eraser-looking thing with very fine abrasive in it. DO NOT USE SANDPAPER OR STEEL WOOL!!! Buy yourself a Dremel tool.Heck even if you don't need it, it's an excuse for buying a new tool!! The tender wheels can be polished up very nicely as they're brass. Use any lubricant VERY SPARINGLY!! As far as getting it running, PortLines has everything you need to make it run like new. Your engine was made from 1949-51, and has smoke, choo choo, and head-light.I would buy new spring brushes and brushes. That's about all you'll need, less than $10 bucks, and easily replaced. For the armature, it should have a re-facing done on it. What I do is the chuck up the armature in a drill press, and spin it slowly, holding a piece of emery cloth or the like against the face, removing any scratches or grooves.Get it nice and shiny and FLAT. Because toy trains are mostly run in the forward position, a groove can sometimes be put unto the armature face. Re-surfacing it removes this microscopic groove, making the loco run both forward and reverse at equal speeds. Before attempting to run the loco for any length of time, be sure to have smoke fluid in the engine; you might burn out the heat element in the smoke chamber... Oh heck, if all else fails, mail it off to either Don or myself, and we'll do the work for you.. Right Don?????..PS. Once you reface that armature, clean out the 3 small grooves on the face...The 290 is a great engine. I love the one I have!!!


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Me?? Honestly, I don't use a dill press to clean the armature -- don't have one. I chuck it up in my power drill and hold a 2000 grit sandpaper lightly against it until shiny. It may not remove that microscopic groove entirely, but it works. Other than , I do all the same as Flyernut suggests. It's really easy and keeps you busy, not to mention the reward of seeing it run again. However, I'd be happy to do the work for you if you like, just PM me or Flyernut (left click on a user name on the left side and hit Private Message, follow the rest like regular email).


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Me?? Honestly, I don't use a dill press to clean the armature -- don't have one. I chuck it up in my power drill and hold a 2000 grit sandpaper lightly against it until shiny. It may not remove that microscopic groove entirely, but it works. Other than , I do all the same as Flyernut suggests. It's really easy and keeps you busy, not to mention the reward of seeing it run again. However, I'd be happy to do the work for you if you like, just PM me or Flyernut (left click on a user name on the left side and hit Private Message, follow the rest like regular email).


Of course you're right about using a drill. I use the drill press because I had one given to me. Other wise, I probably wouldn't have one either,lol......... Thank you cousin for giving the drill press to me!!!


----------



## dstoch

Guys, thank you so much.
Actually, I must have gotten the train in 50' or 51' since they were not made after that. It does still run, and was never run hard before being put up. But, after 50 years in a box wrapped in newspaper dated June 63', it does need to be cleaned. 
One other novice question: what is the switch on the bottom of the tender? It's set in the middle and I don't know if it should be set there or right or left. 
Again, thank you


----------



## kix662003

There are a lot of sites with good info. I just got my old American Flyer out of the attic 8 months ago. If you have lots of questions like I did, I will PM you some links like this one.

Welcome to a great forum of friends and lots of members with good advice and know how.


----------



## flyernut

dstoch said:


> Guys, thank you so much.
> Actually, I must have gotten the train in 50' or 51' since they were not made after that. It does still run, and was never run hard before being put up. But, after 50 years in a box wrapped in newspaper dated June 63', it does need to be cleaned.
> One other novice question: what is the switch on the bottom of the tender? It's set in the middle and I don't know if it should be set there or right or left.
> Again, thank you


That lever is the e-unit lock-out. As you look at the back of the tender, it should go all the way to the left What it does is locks out the tender for only one way travel.. All the time in forward, no reverse, or all the time in reverse, no forward. Just leave it pushed all the way to the side and you'll be fine.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

If you tear it apart for cleaning, you'll see how the lever works to keep the drum from rotating -- locking the unit -- as Flyernut explained.


----------



## dstoch

Guys
Got it running great, very little sparking. But now its transformer (75 watt no. 2 AF) will not allow a full stop to reverse the engine. Light never goes off and continues the direction it was going no changing direction after stop. I know it's not the tender lever as it runs perfect with another transformer( train shop track test ). Any thoughts? Could the voltage from the transformer never get low enough to allow the change in direction?


----------



## dstoch

I can unplug it, plug it back in and it will change direction.


----------



## flyernut

Transformer.As a kid I had one that did the same thing. I hacked off the plastic stop on top of the transformer, and viola! I fixed it.Don't know what to tell you buddy.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

For whatever reason, the control handle of the transformer is not allowing you turn it far enough to cut power. Perhaps age, damage or it always was that way. AF trannies are cheap enough to find at shows and eBay. You can either get a replacement or the same one to exchange parts to get yours working properly. I'd do the former if I were you. You can find a good 100W 4B tranny for about $20-$25, maybe less. Nothing wrong with more power.

BTW - If still seeing sparks, the wheels and/or track is/are probably still dirty. The sparking is an indication of dirt or grime. The metal wheels and track can be cleaned with a green scotchbright pad and rubbed over with alcohol afterward. Even some very fine grit (1000-2000) sandpaper will do the trick on the wheels. But never use sand paper or steel wool on the track. Check the track for any dings or other deformiations. These add to the problem. Track should be smooth and clean.


----------



## dstoch

You guys have been great!!!!
Got the tracks and wheels really clean and no more sparks. Found the problem with the transformer (bent contact) and it's good. Took the tender apart and found a part of the eunit is broken. It gets to that spot on the little wheel and does not go past it to reverse until it is powered on and off several times. It will eventually jump past the spot and works until it gets around to the spot again. Anyone know where can I find an E unit for a 290?


----------



## Strummer

EBay will often have these units listed, as well as many of the on-line stores. And BTW, I'm told it's a "reverse unit", not an "E unit". Seems the Lionel gang is very particular...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Nearly any Flyer reverse unit will work. Although it sounds like it might be the rotating drum that's bad. These are easily found as well -- any reverse unit has the same drum you need. To replace, you have to remove the fingers from the assembly, then slightly spread apart the sides to pop out the bad drum. Install the new one, pop the fingers back on and you're in business.


----------



## flyernut

Parts do interchange on the e-units BUT you have to get a e-unit from a TIN TENDER, not a plastic one. The mounts are different.The unit for a 290 will have a 2 screw mount, the e-unit from a a plastic shell tender, such as a 303, will have a one screw mount with 2 small tabs.. But the drum and fingers will interchange.


----------



## Magne-rail

dfstoch, excellent advice here. Following it, and you will have no problems. 

Sal


----------



## Strummer

flyernut said:


> Parts do interchange on the e-units BUT you have to get a e-unit from a TIN TENDER, not a plastic one. The mounts are different.The unit for a 290 will have a 2 screw mount, the e-unit from a a plastic shell tender, such as a 303, will have a one screw mount with 2 small tabs.. But the drum and fingers will interchange.


Did not know that; good bit of information there...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Kwikster

dstoch said:


> Guys
> Got it running great, very little sparking. But now its transformer (75 watt no. 2 AF) will not allow a full stop to reverse the engine. Light never goes off and continues the direction it was going no changing direction after stop. I know it's not the tender lever as it runs perfect with another transformer( train shop track test ). Any thoughts? Could the voltage from the transformer never get low enough to allow the change in direction?


I'd be thinking the arm inside the unit has moved somehow. You may be able to remove the cover and "adjust" the contact point a bit. Had to do something similar on a Lionel RW I got free. 

Carl


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Kwikster -- I think he found the issue with the tranny -- bent contact inside which he fixed according to a post yesterday. But your suggestion was nearly spot on almost like you had X-ray vision to see inside his tranny. Good thing we have so many good people here to offer these suggestions.


----------



## Kwikster

I may have missed that post. I may be a Lionel guy, but I look in here a lot. Always enjoy seeing the items and stories you guys tell :appl::appl: Flyer had some pretty cool stuff thru the years I must admit. Someday I may expand to the darkside 

Carl


----------



## Strummer

Kwikster said:


> I may have missed that post. I may be a Lionel guy, but I look in here a lot. Always enjoy seeing the items and stories you guys tell :appl::appl: Flyer had some pretty cool stuff thru the years I must admit. Someday I may expand to the darkside
> 
> Carl


You should. I started a topic last week,I guess, where I commented on how much more realistic the post-war Flyer steamers are than (most) of their Lionel counterparts. Sure,they're all "toys", but the AF engines actually look like the prototypes they were based on. And they share the same "bullet-proof" characteristics as those made by Mr. Cohen and company...

Mark in Oregon


----------



## Kwikster

I do not doubt that in the slightest Mark. I have a few lingering projects I wish to finish before considering the plunge. A 681 with 2671w tender needing love, that loco is pretty cool, considering Pennsy only ever made one of them it's popularity is amazing. Once I get my table built, current plans are 6x12 or 6x16 which will allow some nice curves with room for accessories. I really need to sit down and create a gallery of my roster, much has been in the family longer than I have, which explains my Lionel connection. I do have a particular fondness for larger steamers, such as 4-6-2's, 4-8-2's 4-8-4's and especially articulateds. Be hard to decide on a layout size for S that wouldn't take the rest of my basement 

Carl


----------



## Big Ed

If I ever do it all over. 

My purr....fect layout would be, N scale along with HO then add an S line and for sure there would have to be an O line too.
Maybe a small Z scale on the mountain far back in the corner would be a nice touch also. 

No G scale except under the tree or outside. :smokin:


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Going through the alphabet, Ed?


----------

