# Post war gg1 acquired.



## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

Hi all. My dad just gave me his Lionel set from 1951 or so that includes a GG1. We have ran it and took it to a train club today to have it checked out. Runs good, horn works, and one light works. They advised me not to do anything to it at all. It has spent most of its life boxed, but was used a lot years ago. I was wondering about lube, cleaning etc. The only issue it has is that it runs much stronger in one direction than the other. Is this normal? Also the directional switch on the top seems to be weak, but my transformer gives direction changes so I am not worried about it. I probably won't be a serious hobbyist, but will use it a couple of times a year. Any advice for care etc is much appreciated. Here is a pic:









Thank you.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I'll let others give you the proper lubrication advice, but it sounds like it definitely needs it. You can also replace the second lightbulb when you open it up.

I don't have a PW GG1, so I'm not quite sure how they come apart


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

You have every right to be proud of your dad's taste in trains. Lionel's GG1 is a true classic in every sense. Although it is not scale length, it is so well-proportioned that many modelers who haven't seen the prototypes are often surprised, not always pleasantly so to see the actual prototype. Yours has lost most of the lettering and stripes; that's very common, but otherwise seems to be in very good shape. What else did the train stash produce?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Definitely lube before u run it. Lionel used Lionel Lube at the factory and it dries out. Use 5/10W-20/30 motor oil for everything: Gears bearings anything that slides etc. One of the quickest ways to damage a loco is to run it without lube. You need to disassemble the loco to lube it. If you take it to a hobby shop, insist that they use motor oil. I had a 2025 steamer in a box in the closet for 45 years. It was lubed with motor oil. It did not need to be lubed when I took it out of the box.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice rig, your other stuff is real nice too. ( I must not have refreshed the page as I did not see the pic till now). I don't own one either but the motor oil is the lube of choice here. A little is better then a lot. Just a drop or two. All moving wheels(the axials) , gears, etc. You can use a toothpick or something similar to drip on a small amount. Try not to get it on the part of the wheel that touches the track ( it will lose traction) . When I'm done I wipe down that part with some rubbing alcohol. Just be careful not to get it anyware but the part of the wheel that touches the track as it can remove paint! Someone else will probably post you a picture of lubrication points(hopefully). Others will have more detailed advice. I just listed the basics. Have fun!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What kind of train club is that? They advised you not to do anything to it?
Not even lube it up?
If you would have brought it to my club (though I don't have a club ) I would have popped the shell off right there. I probably would have cleaned her up and oiled it also. I wonder what they do with their own trains?

I don't have one but from my book/manual, it looks like underneath (turn it upside down) you will see 2 screws in the front and 2 screws in the back.
It don't matter on the engine? The front looks like the back and the back looks like the front. 

It looks like just those 4 screws hold the body on, anyone here have one to confirm?
Just take them off and pop the shell off you will see the bulbs maybe one is just loose.
Don't take nothing else off but instead look for anywhere there is grease and clean it up the best you can with Qtips and rubbing alcohol. You can buy Isopropanol 99% at your local pharmacy or Home improvement stores.
The alcohol won't hurt anything under there and it drys real quick. If you smoke watch out it is flammable, keep it and the fumes far away from heat sources. The fumes won't hurt you but use with plenty of ventilation especially if your in an enclosed room like a basement.

Like servoguy said the lube/grease that they used back then tends to get hard and will affect the running. The motor oil (just a few drops here and there on the gears) will eventually break down any of the hardened lube you missed.

Also clean the pickup rollers and wheels real good with the Qtips and alcohol that will help with running too. If you have a Dremal tool these will clean up with a brass or wire wheel too.

The hardest part to all of this is popping the shell off, but that only looks like 4 screws and it lifts right off.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That thing is huge! How big, bumper to bumper?

Here's some basic Lione O service info ...

http://www.thortrains.net/manualx.htm

Regards,

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You are going to have to remove the motors from the trucks to lube the gearboxes inside the trucks. I have never lubed a GG1 so that is all I can tell you.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> That thing is huge! How big, bumper to bumper?


The real prototype was over 79 feet, which would put a scale 1:48 one at almost 20 inches. The length of most of the pre-scale models is around 15 inches, that's the size of my K-Line one. The scale ones from Lionel and Williams are a bit over 19" long, they also require at least O-42 curves.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The thortrains info has some bad info. It recommends using steel wool or sandpaper to clean track. Never use steel wool as the little pieces of steel will get into the magnetraction magnets. This will cause weeping and gnashing of teeth. Use a wire wheel or ScotchBrite pad. 

It also tells u to keep oil and grease off of electrical things. Then it tells you to oil the pickup rollers which is good advice. Then it tells u to buy a lube kit which is bad advice. Use motor oil for everything. I even lube the motor commutators as it reduces the motor friction.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The real prototype was over 79 feet, which would put a scale 1:48 one at almost 20 inches. The length of most of the pre-scale models is around 15 inches, that's the size of my K-Line one. The scale ones from Lionel and Williams are a bit over 19" long, they also require at least O-42 curves.


My Lionel scale one is about 20" and has an O-72 minimum curve requirement. It also weighs almost 9 pounds


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## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone. To answer a few questions bumber to bumper it is 13 3/8 long. 

The guys that told me not to mess with it? Well that statement was a little skewed. It was at the Wilmington Railroad Museum in downtown Wilm NC. The guys were very helpful and admittedly HO and N guys. They have an O scale expert there on other days so in caution I think advised me a little errantly by accident. I asked them if I should leave it for him to check out and they told me to take it home and run it. After reading this I surely will reconsider that, but I think their heart was in the right place. One guy said he had only seen 1, the other said he never had. 

Now here is my question for you. Should I do this myself or have the 'expert' handle it? I am generally a tinkerer with good mech skills, but if I have a weak area it is in electronics. If so what is the best guide? Thank you all so much.

Here is a pick of 95% of the collection minus the boxes:









Also included is a Marx 999 that runs strong and a Tyco HO Santa Fe that seems to be locked up or real stiff that was mine in the 70's.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If you think you are handy, I think you can oil up your own stuff. I'm not good with this low voltage electronic stuff but I am learning a ton on this forum. That being said if you are not 100 percent sure and confident don't do it. I would practice on the marx first. Open it up, oil it sparingly and go from there. You will know right away if you want to attempt the gg 1.


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## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

Does anyone have a link for a service manual on these? Is this a 275W engine?


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

The postwar GG1's are fairly desirable locomotives and are therefore pretty tough to find at a good price and in decent shape.

If you're good mechanically you should have no problem digging in. Electrically they are pretty simple, you just have to be careful you don't break some of the thinner wires. Lubricate as posted above. You'll also want to clean up the motor's commutator and brushes. I usually wipe the brushes clean on a rag, and usually use some very fine sandpaper (1000+ grit) to carefully polish the commutator segments. I follow the sandpaper with a clean rag to remove anything left behind. You'll also want to lube the axle bearings along with all the gears.

On the motor, there are two bearings you need to lube that people usually overlook. One is located underneath the armature where the shaft first goes through the housing. The other is at the opposite end where the armature shaft and the gear exit the motor housing.

The motor may be slightly different from how I described, as I'm not very familiar with the mechanics of the PW GG1's. Just postwar steamers and my modern full scale gg1.

Hopefully that helps


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There really isn't any "electronics" in a PW GG-1, just electrical wiring, the E-Unit, and the horn and horn relay.

Here's the Maintenance Manual for the PW GG-1: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2340.htm

The 275W you refer to is obviously in reference to a Lionel transformer, probably the ZW, locomotives don't have wattage ratings.


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## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> There really isn't any "electronics" in a PW GG-1, just electrical wiring, the E-Unit, and the horn and horn relay.
> 
> Here's the Maintenance Manual for the PW GG-1: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2340.htm
> 
> The 275W you refer to is obviously in reference to a Lionel transformer, probably the ZW, locomotives don't have wattage ratings.


Thank you so much. That is just what I was looking for. I have the 2332. I am assuming everything in the manual is close enough?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The 2332 is a bit different mechanically. Here's that service info ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2332.htm

TJ


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## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

tjcruiser said:


> The 2332 is a bit different mechanically. Here's that service info ...
> 
> http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2332.htm
> 
> TJ


Thank you TJ.


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

I think SJM has the perfect Idea, That is the way I started, working on old marx engines helps build skills and confidence without as much risk. My first "nice" PW engine was a 1946 model 671 and I was basically afraid to touch it for fear of messing something up. After scoring a few Marx engines through several craigs list deals And tearing them down and cleaning and getting them running, I finally felt confident enough to try the 671. I then discovered it just wasn't that hard . Just take your time. The biggest help is this forum! plenty of solid advice and people willing to help.

Randy


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## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

Will old school 3 in 1 multipurpose oil work just as well?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No 3 in 1 oil, , these guys say it gums up fast, motor oil is recommended by almost every thread I saw.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Go for the motor oil. 3 in 1 will get gummy and then you will need to clean everything.


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## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

I dropped the motor and front and rear trucks out yesterday. How do I separate the motor from the drive truck? Also how to get the middle truck (non drive) out? Thanks everyone.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Can you post any pics? I don't own one of these and don't want to give bad advice. I will look into it ( tommorow) if no one else can help.


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## ldmoore (Nov 15, 2012)

I will give this a shot being as how I have mine apart now.
If you have part of the trucks off that means you found all the 4-40 pan head screws in the bottom? Did you find both of the screws that come in from the top?
you will have to unsolder the wires to the pantographs to get the shell completely off.
There are 4 screws holding the motor to the truck, two down into the truck and two intothe motor through the bracket in the front. You will have to unsolder the three wires from the E unit the motor should now lift off. To remove the E unit there is a screw in to the bracket from the side you will also have to unsolder the power wire. Now you can remove the bracket to clean out the drive gear.
Hope this helps
Larry


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## baddarryl (Mar 30, 2013)

ldmoore said:


> I will give this a shot being as how I have mine apart now.
> If you have part of the trucks off that means you found all the 4-40 pan head screws in the bottom? Did you find both of the screws that come in from the top?
> you will have to unsolder the wires to the pantographs to get the shell completely off.
> There are 4 screws holding the motor to the truck, two down into the truck and two intothe motor through the bracket in the front. You will have to unsolder the three wires from the E unit the motor should now lift off. To remove the E unit there is a screw in to the bracket from the side you will also have to unsolder the power wire. Now you can remove the bracket to clean out the drive gear.
> ...


Thank you.


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## NJ Cody (Dec 11, 2013)

I recently acquired a 1950’s 2340 GG-1 in Tuscan red that was in storage for decades. All was well with the unit but it needed a good look see and lube. Remove the trucks first and then remove the six screws. The shell was difficult to remove as there are six screws holding it on to the chassis, two are hidden behind the rear truck plate that is held on by the two visible screws on the end of the unit, and is attached to the chassis by two tabs that slide into the chassis. My problem was that the light bulb and its fixture prevented the plate removal and getting to the two hidden screws was a hassle, and even worse at reassembly time. My unit may be constructed differently than other model numbers, but that is my experience. The GG-1 looks and runs great pulling the 2400 series passenger cars!


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## 64conv65hard (Dec 6, 2013)

I remember working on those things back in my early days on the RR. Inside driver brake shoes weighed a ton and awkward positioning to get in, many smashed thumbs and fingers. Boilers were a pain in the a$$ also (steam for the cars). Cracks in the trucks were a constant problem but boy could those things move down the track.


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## emmetd (Aug 1, 2012)

this joker has 8 or12 screws underneath cause each wheel set is a separate part. the screw in the top holds the motor.


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## NJ Cody (Dec 11, 2013)

Thanks for your experiences with the original GG-1's. They are amazing for their time, I enjoy learning about their history.


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