# Coal Rotary Dumppers



## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

I was looking at Walthers Cornerstone Rotary Dumper, item 933-3145. Dose anyone own one, and if so does it actually rotate the cars?


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## Homeless by Choice (Apr 15, 2016)

According to the statement below that I underlined and made bold, I believe that it is a stationary unit only. 
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3145
Rotary dumpers can be found at all types of heavy industries that need to unload large quantities of raw materials in a hurry. At steel works, they handle hoppers of limestone as well as coal for the coke ovens. Paper mills use them to empty woodchip cars. Powerplants make quick work of unloading unit trains without uncoupling cars. In any setting, this detailed model captures the look of the real thing for your layout. Detailed styrene components simulate the heavy steel construction of the prototype and include positionable turning machinery. *(Mechanically inclined modelers will find this kit makes a great starting point for an animated model!) *A safety fence, decal signs and other details are included. Finished model measures: 9-1/2 x 7-1/4 x 3" 23.7 x 18.1 7.5cm. 

LeRoy


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

How could one/I make it rotate via motor


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

So I have the Walthers Diamond Coal Co. # 993-4046 and want to some how tie in the rotary dump into the coal loading station. My idea is to make a slide/ chute for the coal to fall down into coming from the rotary dump. Then a series of conveyors will transport the coal to the Coal Co. where then gravity will once take over in a series of slide/ chutes. Inside will also be a "switch" to tell which side to go to. the flow of coal will be determined by the conveyor either on of off. Eventually I may add a open/ close flap to release coal into its appropriate chute (basically preload the chutes). Its a more complicated and lengthier version of the 1997 Lionel Coal Elevator.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Years ago, I remember seeing pictures of the Walthers rotary dumper, and made it into a working model. They even had constructed the arm, that moved the cars through the dumper. I want to say, that I saw these on the old Atlas forum.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

While some rotary dumpers separate trains into cuts of 2-3 cars for dumping, others use a rotary coupler arrangement on the hoppers themselves, leaving the train intact.

The problem is, I don't know of anyone making a scale size rotary coupler.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

I know O gauge has them, however I understand its larger and easier. So is the set not have rotary couplers?

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Athearn-HO-97863-Bethgon-Coalporter-CSXT-5-p/ath-97863.htm


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Those Atherns must be really good, for a discounted price of $30 each!


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

SBRacing said:


> I know O gauge has them, however I understand its larger and easier. So is the set not have rotary couplers?


No, I've never seen or heard of a working rotary coupler in HO scale.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Prototype trains with rotaries must be run with the RC's all on the same end -- leading or trailing -- or accidental uncoupling could occur.
I can only imagine what would befall a _model_ train in curves if that rule was overlooked or forgotten.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

LateStarter said:


> Prototype trains with rotaries must be run with the RC's all on the same end -- leading or trailing -- or accidental uncoupling could occur.
> I can only imagine what would befall a _model_ train in curves if that rule was overlooked or forgotten.


I've never heard of any issues with rotary couplers causing break-aparts. (Though I'm not a professional railroader.)

What matters of course if if the train is actually going to be rotary-dumped. Then two plain couplers cannot be connected to each other; plain couplers must connect to a rotary or the cars will not be able to be rotated without twisting the next one over, or breaking the coupler.

(Obviously gondolas must be unloaded this way, but there are hopper cars that can be rotary or bottom dumped. If in bottom dump service, the orientation doesn't matter.)


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

The hoppers in this detoured unit coal train clearly weren't going to be rotary dumped, you can see plain or rotary ends connected to each other at random in these shots:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=soo62927&o=soo
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=soo62053&o=soo
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=soo62841&o=soo
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=hlmx145051&o=hlmx

(The coloured ends indicate the rotary coupler end to verify correct orientation.)

Plenty of old rotary cars have also been sold off to multiple private owners and often used in services that will never require the car to be rotated again.


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## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

Even with a functioning rotating coupler, it would be an extra complication to keep the rotated car precisely in line on a rotary dumper without disturbing the cars connected on either end. I'm thinking it would be more practical to uncouple the cars to run through the dumper individually, as was done with older cars before rotary couplers. Individual cars could be handled fairly expediently with conventional knuckle couplers and gravity tracks set up to roll the cars into the dumper and out the other side.

On the other hand, it would be a lot simpler to use operating bottom-dump cars, which have been made for HO, and they could be dumped in motion without uncoupling.

It's a novel idea to have operating loaders and dumpers, but after a while the operation will get repetitious if you are handling multiple long trains.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Not my work but I think it would be cool to do


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Motorizing rotary dumper*



SBRacing said:


> How could one/I make it rotate via motor


SBRacing;

I do not have the Walthers kit; but I can give some general info on making a working rotary dumper. You'll need to adapt this advice to the kit. First, a question about the kit. Does it have a cylinder containing track for a hopper car, that can be rotated by hand? If not, I'd recommend skipping the kit and scratch building.
That's up to you of course.
As for general considerations:
1) The dumper will have to have cars uncoupled, since rotary couplers are not available. 
2) the car/s will need to be held down on the track when the cylindrical frame rotates. I would use some lightly sprung metal plates that push lightly down on the top of the car sides. This means all cars to be unloaded must be the same height.
3) cars should be pushed into, and pulled out of the cylinder by a locomotive as modeling a working arm to move them would be nearly impossible.
4) some form of very accurate positioning system would be needed to get the approach track, and dumper track, aligned perfectly to allow the car to be pushed on/pulled off without derailing. A stepper motor or a mechanical cam arrangement, like that used in the Atlas turntable, could be used.

All in all this would be a daunting project! If you feel up to it go ahead. Hopefully, I've given you some things that may help your design, should you decide to go ahead.

good luck;
Traction Fan


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## Ace (Mar 30, 2016)

redman88 said:


> https://youtu.be/DSgb13EcBwc
> 
> Not my work but I think it would be cool to do


That's an interesting video and very clever work. The cars appear to have actual rotating couplers on one end of the car, apparently with fixed knuckles. There is a lot of careful engineering in that project ! Web site with more info:
http://empcccc.sourceforge.net/rotary_dumper-AD.html


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

So this will be on my future layout as I may be moving soon. Thanks for all the great ideas and words of advice. So I just make some spurs and use a sw1500 to push and pull cars. I know this part won't look prototypical but it be fuctional, have a stop at end of track so the car will stop and be in the same position every time it is dumped. To uncouple the cars in was thinking of useing a magnet and maybe using a hill so once the cars uncoupled they would rool down into rotary and stop by hitting the block/wheel stop. Agreed a lot of work but be cool as hell.


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Wow, that is a slick operation. I would love to have one on my next layout or add on to my existing. A lot of interesting ideas come to mind in making it happen. Will see what the future holds.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

While I don't own one, I do know of a person who scratch built one complete with working latch mechanism to hold the cars down and custom Kadee rotating couplers for a fleet of Roundhouse cars. He based it off prototype drawings from the Somerset NY coal facility. 

He's a member of the NOME (NOMRE) club in WNY (http://nomre.railfan.net/) and has taken it to shows for years. Always a hit with the kids and adults. Doug Nagel is the gentleman's name.

Not sure how much info he's going to share as he was writing an article on it.

And with all the command/control stuff out there now it might be time for Walthers to revisit this model and make it function as it should.


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