# trivia question



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Not many new posts lately, so I will ask a trivia question. Many of us have names with American Flyer names. Mopac is Missouri Pacific. We all know what a Broke Curmudgeon stands for? And, many of us are. But what does Dooper stand for? AmFlyer, you cannot compete as with your contacts, you can find the answer easily.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Here is a hint. Dooper is an acronym.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok, I will not tell. Are you sure you want this information "on the record?"


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Makes no difference to me. It is nothing to be embarrassed about. One of your contact's wife would know.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Hint - It identifies the high school I attended. I grew up in the suburbs due west of Chicago


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have no idea.

Google was no help. You don't want to know what google said a dooper was.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Another hint - Dooper
Dear Old er

maybe you want to google suburbs west of Chicago


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

doo = do, per = person; dooper?


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

hint

Dear Old --- p---er


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Ok, not many guesses. So, I will allow AmFlyer to answer if he can. (I excluded because one of his contacts knows the answer).


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

one of AmFlyer's contact's wife is one also.


----------



## JMedwick (Feb 11, 2017)

Oak park...


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

BINGO Dooper stands for Dear old oak parker -- where i went to high school - Oak Park and River Forest High School. I grew up poor in River Forest, one of the richest suburbs. Full of gangsters, home of Tony (big tuna) Arcado - as a kid if you had the guts on halloween your would get a 10 cent box of Cracker Jack ( this was 1952 -3). Same school as Earnest Hemingway, home of the creator of Jay's potato chips, Kool Aid, inventor of the Twinkee, Mars candy. And Sloan Valve, you can't go to any men's room with seeing a Sloan valve.

My father was a fireman with four children, and on his day off he would work for these people as a handy man, and I worked with him, it was tough seeing classmates in their room while I was washing his windows.

Anyway, a great education. (Paul Harvey lived there) - "Now you know the rest of the story/."


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Your hint is of no help to me. I used to live in Cary, IL which is kinda a suburb of Chicago to the west but I still have no idea.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Wow, lots of famous people from that area.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

Sam Giancano, the mafia head after Tony Arcado lived in Oak Park until he was assinated in basement.  His daughter was 'the mafia princess'. Had a classmate who lived two doors away. The FBI always had people watching 24/7.

And Ray Croc lived there also (have you heard of McDonalds).


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

dooper said:


> BINGO Dooper stands for Dear old oak parker -- where i went to high school - Oak Park and River Forest High School. I grew up poor in River Forest, one of the richest suburbs. Full of gangsters, home of Tony (big tuna) Arcado - as a kid if you had the guts on halloween your would get a 10 cent box of Cracker Jack ( this was 1952 -3). Same school as Earnest Hemingway, home of the creator of Jay's potato chips, Kool Aid, inventor of the Twinkee, Mars candy. And Sloan Valve, you can't go to any men's room with seeing a Sloan valve.
> 
> My father was a fireman with four children, and on his day off he would work for these people as a handy man, and I worked with him, it was tough seeing classmates in their room while I was washing his windows.
> 
> Anyway, a great education. (Paul Harvey lived there) - "Now you know the rest of the story/."


Interesting!

IIRC Frank Lloyd Wright lived in Oak Park, IL and designed homes there. 

My current neighbor worked many years at Sloan Valve. 

I spent my summers in Cicero with my grandparents back in the 60's, not far from Oak Park. My wife worked at the place (Borden) that made Cracker Jack in the 1980's (after they moved to Northbrook, IL). We gave out boxes of Cracker Jack at Halloween - Borden's gave us around 48 boxes each year just before Halloween. At that time we lived not far from Cary, IL in unincorporated McHenry, near Burton's Bridge. 

Lots of connections.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

I have been in many of FLW's home in Oak Park and River Forest. Jerry Sloan played basketball with my brother - three years older than I. And, let us not that Earnest Hemingway graduated from OPRF, but he was smart and got out of town as soon as he could.

The Borden dairy was a few blocks away. As kids we would cadge some chocolate milk from the returning drivers. And even better, a Hostess bakery was next door (twinkies, snowballs, and cupcakes). When the boss was not around they would give us the seconds that could not be sold. Oh to be eight years old again.
Al

P.S. you and MoPac both lived near Cary at one time.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I still love snowballs.

In Cary we lived by a trout lake and a pay lake for fishing, if that rings a bell.
And I remember a ski jump ramp. I was a little guy, maybe 5th grade.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

I do remember seeing the ski jump ramp as a young lad - unique - you reminded me of it. Cary was in the boondocks - my father had a friend living there so I was there once.

I have not been able to find and snowballs. I was devastated when Hostess went bankrupt. They brought back the twinkie but not the snowballs. They say that if the earth is devastated the only thing that will exist are cockroaches and twinkies. 

Had dinner last night with a a bunch of classmates from high school. One of whom married the daughter of the man who invented the twinkee. Another who was my first ever date who's father built Meadowdale race track, subsequently turned in Carpentersville. ill.

I know a lot of people with money. Why do I always pay?


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

http://www.skisprungschanzen.com/EN/Ski+Jumps/USA-United+States/IL-Illinois/Fox+River+Grove/0726/

And let us not forget this place! Apparently re-opened. 

https://santasvillagedundee.com/

On a related note, those old rides from 1950's Santa's Village would have been a much bigger version of American Flyers - LOL! Many were sold off and hopefully collected and refurbished when it closed in 1979. 

I still live near Cary, in Algonquin, Il. And yes, this used to be considered "the boonies". Not so much anymore.

Of course, near Oak Park was Fairyland.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Wow, you guys are bringing back memories. Was a long time ago. I remember the names Fox River Grove and Algonquin. Seems we used to go swimming at Fox River Grove. A beach I think. I remember some poor fool was killed going down that ski ramp on a motorcycle during the summer time. He did not make it. No idea how he got the bike to top of ramp. I remember Cary as a very small town. Neat down town. The train stopped in Cary and my dad rode it to work every day in Barrington. Another neat area. Strange what you remember. A person was hit by the train downtown and story was they never found his head. My wife saw a guy hit by a train and body parts do tend to fly off.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

We probably only lived outside Cary for about a year. My dad moved us around a lot.
He was a trouble shooter for the business he worked for. By the time I was in 8th grade I had been in 11 different schools. We lived in West Virginia, Kentucky, 2 cities in Ohio, Michigan, 2 cities in Illinois we also lived in Peoria, Texas, and finally Missouri. I was 11 when we lived in Cary. I remember riding my bike to down town Cary. We lived on a black top road across from a large farm. Many acres. Its probably a subdivision now. I collected coins then and I would go to the bank on Saturdays and get rolls of coins to go through. I also remember taking a bag of silver half dollars to the bank and cashing them in for paper money. That bag would be worth many hundreds of dollars now. I still regret doing that.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

So funny, I did the exact same thing at that age, going to local banks and the local Jewel Food store and trading rolls of coins for other rolls of coins, I still have my childhood collection.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Jewel is who my dad worked for. Not the grocery store part but the home shopping part.
He actually sold the 282 I have had since 1955 to my grandmother in 1952. Yes Jewel used to sell
American Flyers. I have my coins also. LOL, not all the halves I had.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

mopac said:


> Jewel is who my dad worked for. Not the grocery store part but the home shopping part.
> He actually sold the 282 I have had since 1955 to my grandmother. Yes Jewel used to sell
> American Flyers.


You are NEVER going to believe this - Mine Too! They used to have family picnics at Jewel Park in Barrington each year! This is the box I had some of my train stuff in. The name was changed from Jewel Home Shopping to JTs General Store at some point. My Santa Fe Chief set (the one I am restoring) was bought in 1957 by my father before I was even born. He gave it to me around 1967 when he thought I was old enough to appreciate it. This was shortly after I received the All-Aboard Pioneer 600 as a Christmas gift from my Grandmother and Great Aunt.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Small world isn't it. I also have been to the family picnic in Barrington. Too funny. Days gone by. I remember JT"s General store. My dad, my brother, and me worked for the Jewel Tea Co. I ran vacation relief during the summers when I was in high school and
college. I was offered a very good job with Jewel. I had finished my college and a Vice President for Jewel offered me a regional manager job
with Jewel. It took my dad at least 10 years to obtain that. I saw how hard my dad had worked and usually out of town 3 days a week and I did not want that.

I ended up selling new Fords for 30 years. The last 10 I was sales manager. I loved the job but high stress. The dealership owner and Ford on me to sell more more more. Its a numbers game. They were never satisfied. Had 2 heart attacks in 2006 and pretty much retired. LOL, have not had a heart attack since so I think it was the job. It had its good points. For 30 years I always had a new car to drive and gas and insurance and only had to buy a car for the wife.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

I did vacation relief too for a year. My Dad started in the business in about 1970 and eventually bought his route and continued until he retired late 1980s. 

You cannot make this stuff up!

And going full circle to user names mine refers to the 2003 Mach 1 that I had with the shaker scoop, I know a lot about Fords! I used to have a business relationship with the sales manager at a now defunct operation in West Dundee. I bought my cars directly from him before business hours. Was sorry to see that place close down. My close friend was the finance manager at a Pontiac dealer and he told me a lot about the stress level.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Interesting discussion. I lived in Woodridge Center in the late 70’s, then at 1455N near the lake in the city in the early 80’s. I returned to Chicago in 1990 and lived in Wheaton for 3 years. It was wonderful being close to the DuPage monthly meets. It cost me a lot of money.
Sorry, but my wife shopped at Dominic’s, I avoided grocery stores. Now I just have this Entemann’s Bakery delivery truck on my layout.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Cool bakery truck Tom. Very nice. Have you bought any of the lighted autos from Menards? I have a few. Headlights and tail lights light up. I am half way watching for an American Flyer semi truck.

Shaker, so your dad was a Jewel man. My brother bought his route also. Wasn't always that way. It was a great service back when most women didn't work and were home all day. Many families back then only had one car and the father took it to work. With most women working now it killed the home shopping service. No one home during the day. Jewel wanted my dad to go to Orlando, Fla. but my dad saw the end of Jewel Home Shopping service coming and did not want to be left in Florida so he retired.
Cool you had a Mach 1 with shaker hood. I had a 65 GTO with tri-power and 4 speed.
It was bad to the bone. I miss it. I bought it in 67 and sold it to an old girl friend about
1970. I had it in college and the guys would wake me up in the middle of the night and want me to drive them around. They always came with gas money.

Sorry Tom, I just remembered the Menards cars are O scale. So of coarse you don't have any. I do O also.

See Shaker, we like pics. Post them if got them.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I have been careful to stay with 1/64 scale cars and trucks no matter how nice the O scale ones are. That said I do have an AMT race track set collection so I have a lot of the 1/25 scale cars for that track. Those race sets were made one year only, 1962.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

A 65 GTO tri-power with 4-spd is practically the definition of the muscle car! Some would call it the first muscle car. I'd miss that too.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

AmFlyer, that looks like one beautiful layout from what I have seen. A real work of art! If you did that, you are very talented. Totally realistic, right down to the asphalt.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I have neither the time nor the talent to build that, it was professionally built. I have posted pictures of layouts I have built, the difference is apparent.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

AmFlyer said:


> I have neither the time nor the talent to build that, it was professionally built. I have posted pictures of layouts I have built, the difference is apparent.


 Well, it is a beauty! I cannot imagine the time, talent and moola it takes to craft something like that.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

shaker281 said:


> A 65 GTO tri-power with 4-spd is practically the definition of the muscle car! Some would call it the first muscle car. I'd miss that too.


A good buddy of mine had a 65, 4-speed, tri-power, 4:11's, rare Gold convertible GTO.. Another buddy had a 67 400, 4-speed, and I had 2 67's, a 4-speed and a automatic.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

I love those gold GTOs! A vert w/ black top sounds awesome. 

My current toy is a 2008 Shelby GT500 in Alloy (gun metal) w/ satin silver stripes. Running about 640 horsepower, lowered with custom suspension and drivetrain. It is not too unlike the old muscle. Very raw and simple, if you can believe that. But, with A/C and a good sound system, plus very reliable. I've put over 40,000 miles on it since I got it, weather permitting. It is the car I always dreamed of, but missed out on in the late sixties/early seventies, due to being too young and poor!


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

A 57 chevy was my first car. Bought in 63. It was not a classic yet. Paid 400.00 which
I got from mowing yards. 65 GTO was my 2nd car. 65 bought in 67 and my 57 was becoming a classic so sold my 57 for double what I paid for it. My dad loaned me the rest to get the 65 GTO. He liked the car also. My dad liked fast cars and he drove fast. Plenty of speeding tickets. He liked 100 plus on the speedometer. My current toy which I bought this jan. is a 2018 F150 with the coyote motor. 395 horse.Its a fast pickup.
Planning a rousch exhaust which will sound good and should boost HP to 400. The truck is a XLT Sport model with bucket seats and floor shift, and 10 speed transmission, and black-out grill and bumpers and optional 3:55 rear gears, and 4X4. 20 inch rims, black in color. I like it. Don't like the
price of new pickups. Its nuts. Ford will wait a long time for me to pay it off. 1.9 % for 72 months. O down. I don't mind paying 1.9 for interest.
When I bought Ford had 0% for 60 months. Payment was too high, 72 months too high but better.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

Not unlike my experiences. My first car was a basket case 1966 Mustang that I bought for $65 with no transmission and the clutch in the trunk along with alternator, starter and various other parts. Had it going by the time I was 14 and drove it up and down the driveway learning clutch. My Dad loaned me the money for that, like your's did. I worked at a dry cleaners and then a car wash from age 13 to 18. 

Those Coyotes are no joke. And I really like the new 10-spd autos. I just replaced the factory clutch on my Shelby with a McLeod twin-disk RXT. Supposed to hold to 1000 hp. The clutch action is very nice, far better than the oem unit it replaced. At the same time I installed a DSS 1-piece aluminum driveshaft and safety loop, lopping nearly 30 lbs off the curb weight. Now it is ready for more power! LOL - as if I need that! It already smokes em in first, second and third. Scares the heck out of me actually. I am not sure I trust my vision and reflexes that much anymore.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I tore up a couple clutches with my GTO. Happens. I did a few things to the GTO.
Changed rear gears from 3:23 to 3.93. Headers. One thing I did not do that was needed was an electric fuel pump. It would run out of gas in 4th gear. Since the GTO this truck is the quickest thing I have owned. I screwed my GTO up as a collector car. I ran the snot out of the 389. It started using a lot of oil. So I went to a salvage yard and found a under 6000 mile Bonneville or such with a 428 in it. Bought the motor and my dad helped me put it in the GTO. The tri power fit, same color motor. My GTO did not have power steering so I bought all that stuff off same car that had the 428. It all bolted up real easy. The 428 ran good but needed a better cam in it to handle the tri power. I was still winning my class at the drag strip. C/Stock. Which with the engine swap it was not stock. One guy I beat protested my motor because I beat him and he had been beating GTOs Like mine. I forget how much money he had to put up to have my motor tore down and tested. Thank goodness he backed off because I would have been disqualified. It was amazing how that 428 bolted up to everything. It looked just like my 389. But it was not a GTO motor so would have lowered value of my car.

I was going by the nascar creed, "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying".

I ran the GTO at Houston International Raceway when I lived in Texas. It is still a big time track. I see it on the drag circuit.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

Very cool! Yeah, Texas is huge on drag racing and car culture and those guys can go all year long. I'm lucky if I can go 6 months out of the year. After the 66 Mustang I got a 70 'Cuda and pretty much ruined it's collectability, well me and the rust belt winters. Still, I drove it for 10 years before selling it. Didn't have another hot car until I bought the 2003 Mach 1 nearly 20 years later. I've been making up for lost time, lol. I doubt I'll ever sell the Shelby though. The new ones are rumored to list around $75K and up. We'll see in the fall. Ford has been mum.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I just saw in last day or 2 Ford released the pricing. I did not read the article cause I knew I could not afford one. I bet your 75,000.00 is close. I think around 650 HPs.
Nice toy.

My GTO ran low 13s. And every once in awhile I would hit the 12s with great shifts.
Doesn't really seem all that fast but it was late 60s and double AA fuel dragsters were running in the 8s. Now they run in the 3s.


----------



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

High 12's in a 60s car is really good. Most people think they were a lot faster, but they were very limited by the tires of the time. Many could not even get into the 13's. But, they looked cool as heck and were easy to work on!


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mopac, that reminds me of the infamous red car, blue car pair of GTO test cars released to the press. All the journalists commented how much faster the red 4 speed was. One magazine recorded a [email protected] quarter mile. Many years later Pontiac admitted it was a specially built ringer with a 421.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

my GTO would do 112 to 115 in the quarter. It was fast and I think the 3:93 rear gears helped. With that rear end I don't know if it would hit 120 in a long run. It was set up for the quarter. It was turning 3,000 RPMs at 60 mph so 120 would be 6,000 RPM and it would not turn 6,000. At about 5,500 the valves would start floating. And like I said It would start to run out of gas. With the original 3:23 rear end it may have done top speed of 130. I never tried it, That is too fast on public streets. I still have some time and speed tickets from the track somewhere around here. And a couple trophies around here. I got one for my 57 chevy. LOL, K/ stock class. It was cool but not fast. Seems like it was 17 or 18 second quarter mile.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

l I am glad my little trivia question brought many together. Jewel still have some stores in the Chicago area. Dominics closed a couple of years ago. I miss them. Do you remember Meadowdale race track? It was created by a man named Bessinger. His daughter was my first date ever. Had dinner with her a few days ago. Her father closed the track and created the village of Carpentserville. She is still living off rent income from there.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I do not recall that track. I moved from Pa to Woodridge in 1975, was it operating then?
A 115 trap speed is impressive for a near stock 1965 GTO. My 442's would not quite hit 100 with a 3.42 rear gear. The 442's I owned were oversquare design, they would rev to 6k w/o valve issues but shifting above 5200rpm was an exercise in futility. The 65 GTO came with a 4GC carb, not sure what you had on the 428. Mine had Quadrajets which properly tuned were very good carbs. 
The Quadrajets had multiple sizes of fuel inlet valves, when I put in a hotter cam with ram air and much richer secondary metering rods the engine would starve for fuel. The issue was solved with a larger fuel inlet valve, the pump was ok.
Times have sure changed, my daily driver will trap above 125 with the top down and the A/C on. Just change the transmission control from Comfort to Race and hit the gas. With enough room just hold the throttle down and it hits the 186 speed limiter. On the freeway it gets 20mpg.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

My 428 had a quadrajet when I got it. I put it in the GTO with the quadrajet. I could tell my car was not as fast so I put my tri power on the 428. Much faster. I heard people had trouble with the tri power. Keeping them tuned together. I never had any trouble with mine.
They worked great. The GTO would run on the center carb until full throttle. I could feel
when the other 2 carbs were going to kick in. I would try to beat people with the center carb. I beat this one guy and he just knew that if we raced again that he could take me.
So he puts up a hundred bucks to race again. Lot of money in late 60s. For a hundred bucks I was not going to hold back anything. I blew the snot out of his car. He really got mad at me. It was his fault. He realized I was sand bagging the first race. I had a friend with a beautiful 4-4-2. It was fast but we never raced each other. Not sure why.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Coolest car I ever drove on a track was a Pontiac ex cup car. 650 HP. We have a nascar track here in St Louis. I don't think we have had a cup race here but what ever the nascar minor league guys raced here Earnhardt Jr has raced here as he was coming up to cup racing. Richard Petty had a neat deal here. For a price you could drive a race car on the track. It was called the Richard Petty Driving Experience. So cool. My wife got me a drive for one of my birthdays. There was like 6 cars on the track at once, but they would not let us pass unless someone was really slow. Which there was some. Half of the guys driving were scared. Not me. I wanted to go. I was a nascar fan at one time. Not so much now. Your instructor drove in a car behind you. There was radio in the helmets and they could talk to you. I think I got 9 or 10 laps. My speed was in the 140s.
Would have been much more for me If the slow guys would get off the track. They held me back. First 2 laps my rear end felt like it was going to come around in the curves. My instructor told me the tires would hold so I did not worry about it. Would like to have done 170. That's what the pros did on that track.
Instructors had a kill switch for the cars, if you were being an idiot they could kill your car.


----------



## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

I never into fast cars, only fast women and convertibles. Do not own a sedan. An older sebring and a Nissan Cross Cabrolet, a convertible SUV. One of about 15,000 ever built.

Meadale Race track closed in mid top late 60"s.






n


----------

