# Polar Express Smoke



## Mr-T

Does anyone else have trouble getting the PE locomotive to smoke?  I checked the button to make sure it was on and I can see a tiny bit come out at times but you can barely see it when it is moving. I have the O gauge version of Lionel's set and it says it was manufactured in August 2010. Any suggestions?


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## tjcruiser

I don't have much experience with modern smoke units, but I understand that you do NOT want to overfill them with smoke fluid. Any chance that could be your problem? Just a few drops should be fine.

TJ


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## T-Man

You can't overdo the fluid. To get a good puff the air hole needs to be open. A cleaning may be in order. Other than making sure it has current all you can do is rebuild it or replace it. Lionel should have some technical information on smoke unit care.


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## overlander

I have one of these too , and I have the same problem . I didn't even know those switches were back there until you mentioned them . So , thanks for that . I've put oil in mine several times trying to get it to smoke . ( If a little is good , a lot must be better . Right ? ) So now I'll try cleaning it out and get back to this thread on Sunday . If it works for you , please let us know . Cliff


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## overlander

I checked my engine out today . Looking in the smokestack I can see an open hole in the rear and what appeared to be a fibrous material in the front half . I didn't see much of a way to clean it out , so I decided to take the train body off . The assembler stripped out one of the screw heads , so I had to drill it out . Now it's only held together with three screws . Might be hard to find one to fit , but the threads are fine . Taking it apart didn't help though . I couldn't do much more that way , than together . It was interesting to see inside anyway . Now it's back together , sans screw , and runs fine , but still doesn't smoke and the whistle is still barely audible . Cliff


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## Mr-T

I have to say I'm disappointed with this train. Besides the smoke (or lack thereof) it seems to have a weak motor. We have a set-up with graduated trestle and it barely can go up the elevated sections and once it heads down it seems to be a run-away train. My MTH trains are nice and steady the whole way (both up and down). I would consider this particular train set to be many people's introduction into the hobby or at least into Lionel trains so you would think they would put out a better unit in order to get the repeat business. I can say I will seriously reconsider buying a Lionel locomotive again.


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## overlander

I feel your pain Mr. T . My engine runs great , but I don't have any hills . I am disappointed with both the smoke and the whistle , but frankly , I knew I was buying a new Lionel instead of an old one . Their new cars are crap too . I bought a caboose that has the front truck held on and swiveling with just a cruddy plastic push pin , but I have a train for now and will hit the train shows and join a local club here in northeast Indiana , and as money allows , I'll replace this new junk with old quality . It's been a real learning experience for me . Cliff


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## md63

I just got the PE for Christmas and mine has an August 2010 manufacturing date. I get smoke coming from the unit but it doesn't seem very strong. I'm also having minor issues with going up slight inclines. I have a couple of bridge accessories which lie under the track and cause a slight incline. If I try to run the train very slow it will tend to stop in those areas. Slightly faster speed and I have no problem.


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## overlander

Last night I finally said the heck with it and dumped a bunch of the smoke oil into my engine , and darned if it didn't start smoking . Not a lot of smoke mind you , but enough . Do you need to do this on new engines , then just add a few drops after that ? Cliff


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## Mr-T

Thanks for the update. If you had to guess, how many drops do you think you put in there?


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## overlander

I'd guess about seven or eight , in addition to what I already had in there . It didn't last too long , so I put more in again and it smoked again . I was using the handle of an eighth inch paint brush , dipping it in the bottle and scraping it off on the front inside edge of the smokestack . I figured I had nothing to lose by trying . Cliff


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## cjkoz1975

I too have the PE set. It is the first set I've had since I was a kid. When I bought it I didn't really know alot about Lionel. Mine doesn't smoke for crap either. I did find that if I let it sit fully powered up in neutral that it would start to smoke. Then it would smoke ok for 1 lap around the track. I since have learned that some of the older locos seem to be made better. I bought the warhorse set at a model train show. It was made in 1996 right here in the U.S.A. It has a Norfolk and Wester J locomotive #600. When I put smoke fluid in this one I get better smoke production. I did notice that it is better with more fluid and the directions that came with it recommend 4-8 drops. I have to say I like this loco alot more than the PE, plus it has the chuffing sound and a much better and realistic whistle. I think it has alot more sounds, but I don't have the TMCC controller that it needs. Either way it is still an awesome locomotive in my amateur opinion. My only question is: is there a smoke fluid that works better than another or are they all the same?


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## overlander

It's a good question really . I have both the fluid that came with my Polar Express and an old bottle with a saturated , unreadable label . Neither works well . Anybody else know of a good fluid to try ? Cliff


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## tjcruiser

I was told by a hobby store owner that he likes using Crest smoke fluid ... apparently, it's inexpensive and works reasonably well.

This is 2nd-hand info, though ... I've never tried it myself.

TJ


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## overlander

Thanks for the input , TJCruiser . I haven't been messsing with my smoke since I dumped a whole bunch in . Been busy building buildings and such , but maybe I'll work on that smoke situation again this weekend . It seems like such a simple set-up , I can't imagine it not working well . Cliff


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## Fighterpilot

Just got mine today through Amazon.com and the looks of the set is impressive. Mine was also made in August of 2010 (must have been when they ran a bunch of these). I have the same problem with the smoke system. It just doesn't work! I'll try adding more smoke fluid to see if that helps. I too put the train in neutral and powered up the transformer to max power for about 20 seconds, then powered down, put the train in forward and added about 3/4 power. It gave me about 4 puffs and that was it. Has anyone contacted Lionel about this? Seems if enough complained they would see fit to fix the problem. Can't be good publicity for Lionel


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## T-Man

Have you checked Lionel for any information? They have an extensive web site.


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## overlander

Using plenty of oil I bought at a train show , mine puts out a barely acceptable amount of smoke , but putting too much in , is just a waste . You'll find it on the undercarriage of your engine . How well does your whistle work ? Cliff


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## Fighterpilot

My whistle sounds off pretty good at about 1/2 to 3/4 power. I added two more cars to my set (baggage and diner) so I've got to give it some power to get her moving. Pulling all the cars, the whistle sounds pretty nice; but, still no smoke.


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## Fighterpilot

I purchased the chuffing sound coal tender with the bell and whistle, as well as some recorded communications with controller and engineer. Nice touch to a good looking train; but, still no smoke! Having trouble with it derailing through fastrack switches, too.
You would think for the price you pay for this stuff it would have a little better quality and not be "made in China".


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## gunrunnerjohn

Hell, all the stuff is made in China nowadays. Look at MTH or Lionel stuff.


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## TrainmanTim

True. The challenge is finding the highest quality "Made in China" trains. Unfortunately, quality is only as good as the lowest quality part.


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## gunrunnerjohn

On the smoke issue, I'd open up the engine and take a look at the smoke chamber. You might be able to add some fiberglass batting to improve the smoke output. I'm thinking of adding some to my 1668E Torpedo locomotive, it has pretty anemic smoke output too.


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## Fighterpilot

Does anyone have any knowledge of anybody just packing the damned thing up and sending it back to Lionel with a note that says, "FIX IT"? I wonder what the results would be? It certainly does not smoke as represented in Lionel's literature.
I have added the diner and the baggage car, along with the chuffing sound coal tender and I must say, except for the smoke, it makes a very nice looking and sounding train.
Now that being said, see my other post on the problem I'm having with this locomotive running through Fastrack switches.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Did you read my previous post? You're going to have to pop the shell off and take a look at what you have. It could be as simple as adding some fiberglass to the smoke chamber.


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## Fighterpilot

I read all the previous post and don't feel like trying to fix a new engine. I'll leave that up to someone with a lot more experience with these toy trains than me. If anybody has any success at fixing the problem, I hope they'll post it here. But, back to my question above, has anybody talked to Lionel about this? I sent them an email and have yet to get a response.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, that limits the "fix it" to sending it back. If you're not interested in trying to fix it, I'm out of suggestions.


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## santafe158

Ok, first off, you CAN put too much fluid in a smoke unit which just serves as a coolant (cools the resistor) and doesn't give you any more smoke. More is NOT better. You can put more than normal in the first time you run which soaks into the wicking and after that you flip it over on a towel, let the excess drain out and put a little in as needed. Lionel starter set steamers aren't very good smokers to begin with. As gunrunnerjohn said, try adding some fiberglass insulation (the pink fluffy kind used in attics) if there's not much in there from the factory.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I opened my new (new to me at least) 1688E Torpedo, the TMCC equipped remake around 1998 and checked the smoke chamber. All that's in there is a little fiberglass sleeve around the heating element. No wonder it doesn't smoke much!

I never thought of using standard fiberglass, next time I have that out, I'm going to shag up to the attic and put some in. I bought a replacement wick from Lionel for one of the engines, $2.50 for a little piece of fiberglass!   FWIW, the diesels that I have with the chamber full of fiberglass send out a good stream of smoke.


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## santafe158

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I opened my new (new to me at least) 1688E Torpedo, the TMCC equipped remake around 1998 and checked the smoke chamber. All that's in there is a little fiberglass sleeve around the heating element. No wonder it doesn't smoke much!
> 
> I never thought of using standard fiberglass, next time I have that out, I'm going to shag up to the attic and put some in. I bought a replacement wick from Lionel for one of the engines, $2.50 for a little piece of fiberglass!   FWIW, the diesels that I have with the chamber full of fiberglass send out a good stream of smoke.



Funny story. I opened up my new BSA 0-8-0 and found that Lionel had just put a little "tuft" of fiberglass inside, hardly enough to do anything so I took it out and put a big piece of insulation inside. Works better than it did but still isn't great. That's just the design.

BTW, they usually suggest removing that sleeve around the resistor but I haven't tried it myself so I can't say. I do know that my 0-8-0 doesn't have one at all.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I may just fill it with fiberglass to start. Since I know where to find an unlimited amount of it, if that doesn't work, I'll start over.


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## overlander

After reading Gunrunnerjohn's suggestion , I went down and pulled a little " Pink Corning " insulation from an accessible batt and tucked a little into my Polar Express . It made a significant difference ! Smoke doesn't pour out , but it is much better . You should try it ! Thanks for the tip Gunrunner . Now as to the Chinese quality , well , don't get me started . But it isn't just China . Most manufacturers around the world , including the U.S , have cut down or eliminated their quality control people . They just send out the junk and if somebody goes to the trouble of sending it back , they tag it " remanufactured" and sell it again through a discount house . Nothing is worth a crap anymore , it seems . Boy ! I could rant on this subject for hours . Cliff


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## gunrunnerjohn

That's great, a simple and cheap fix.  I'm going to do the same thing to my 1688E, it has pretty weak smoke output, and it also has very little in the way of wick in there.


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## Fighterpilot

Do you just poke some fiberglass insulation down the smoke stack or do you have do disassmeble the unit to get to the smoke fluid reservoir and fill that with fiberglass?


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## gunrunnerjohn

You have to take it apart and put the fiberglass in the smoke chamber. Don't just stuff it down the smokestack!


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## overlander

I just poked it down the smokestack and worked it forward with a small punch , making sure to keep the puffer hole open . I guess maybe I should have asked that question first , but it seems to be working well . Cliff


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## gunrunnerjohn

It might work, it would depend on the design of the smoke unit. I know the one in my 1688E would not respond to this tactic, the smoke chamber is off to the side.


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## overlander

I'll have to look at my older engine and see how it's made before I try this , on it . I'm pretty much a rookie right now . Cliff


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## gunrunnerjohn

It's not that big a deal to take the shell off, then the smoke unit should be right there. Opening up the smoke unit will be very dependent on the exact model, there are a number of designs.


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## Fighterpilot

You guys are about to convince me to open up my locomotive and take a peek inside. I knew my curiousity would overcome my anxiety about taking it apart before long. I'll take a short trip to the attic before I do and gather up some fiberglass.
I'll let you know how it works out.
Thanks,
Bill


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## gunrunnerjohn

If you get the shell off and have questions, post some pictures and we'll try to guide you.


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## overlander

Heck yes ! Open it up . It always good to see how things work , and rest assured , nothing will go springing out when you take the shell off . It's very simple .


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