# Junk Box Three



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The latest in my purchases, this box has some challenges. It's contents contain some tinplate, and 40 ish Lionel tainted with a spray can. Two engines two cabooses, three cars and a tender. Also some hitch hikers Lots of fun



I jumped the gun on this one and started right in But here is the box and most of the items.

Some tinplate items, and signals





The hitch hikers.



The oddball is an early 60's 1061 with no light or means of a reverse. The rear axle was bent on the trailing wheels. Otherwise it runs fine.



How about just a taste of the spray paint.





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This should give you an idea of what needs to be done.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Oh, incredible. What a find! I've seen those cowboys and the indian with the spear before - about 60+ years ago?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The first survivor*

I started with a 40's 3559 dump car. The wheels were silver so I used easy off on the frame and trucks. Cleaned the trucks and repainted the frame, The dump bed was cleaned and polished up.





The plastic end was a mess and I used the polishing compound to clean it.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice t man, the prewar dump cleaned up nice the 2 standing guys are Hessian sp solders, or so it looks. Way cool, you need a horse for the other figures. Hate to say the stuff is in too good of shape for you. No epoxy


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I believe that they are made by Archer, maybe from a cereal box. For now they are just spacemen but I originally thought they were connected to Buck Rogers the serial show was prewar and played piecemeal in the theaters. I need to read up more.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

Nice score!
Those spacemen definitely look like Archer. There was also a company that later made them and they are hard to tell apart. There name...Glencoe.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

One man's trash is another man's treasure!

I do think we need to find the hand at the control of that silver paint can and slap it!


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

Jeff T said:


> I do think we need to find the hand at the control of that silver paint can and slap it!


Agreed.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

We get a lot of questions on paint removal so I hit the jackpot on that subject. The cars were in good condition unfortunately the paint ruin original lettering. So far I have stripped three frames, the 3559 dump car, a hersey boxcar, and now a tender.

You saw it as silver and this is after an easy off bath.



The frame had no stamp number but the shell was a 1666-t, the shell had a big mold problem too so I used a heat gun to stop it. There was no whistle but one was there at one point due to the roller pickups on the staple end trucks.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*T-Man*, The tender with the railing arrangement, and coil coupler you have makes it a 671W/2020W/4424W or 4671W tender. They all used the 1666T shells, and the telling differences were in the railings, and whether it had a coil coupler, or a magnetic coupler, and they all used Stape End Trucks. If it had a magnetic coupler, it would have been a 6020W tender. Other tenders similar, but without the front vertical railings, would have made it a 2466t/2466W. Because yours has the pick up rollers, what ever version number would have had a whistle. The 6466W did not have any railings, but was the same shell. The 1666T shell was used quite a bit over the years, and the lettering could be either Silver or White, with no difference in value.

The caboose appears to be the 2457, Red body, with Black windows, and smokestack.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It has coil couplers the 2466W sounds familiar because I have cleaned one that also had a bad mold problem. I like the railings a nice feature.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Nope nope nope!!!!! Your tender has vertical railings in the front and the rear, along with the ones on top. That alone makes it the 671/2020/4424/4671W tender.....

Your talking to the "Tender Guru".....remember!!

The railings and coupler type tells the difference.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

LOL OK I believe you. I wish the engine was in the box. Those are classic tenders.

The 2466w thread

I checked and I added the vertical grab irons, this is the first one I own that has them all.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Tell me about those tenders. I have to finish restoring another one, which is nothing more than getting a set of trucks for the frame. I have two complete 2020/2020W's and a third one that needs the tender finished to make a set of three 2020 combos. But then we still have three 1681-1661T combo's to finish, and............you know the rest. And the Lionel Jr. motors that need rebuilds too.........


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*T-Man* Have you found using a heat gun to be a good cure for inhibiting mold on the plastic shells. Any other methods you would recommend?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Lol, you two have more knowledge between the two of you then I'll ever need. Great job so far t! And I was completely wrong about the space men, though the standing guy has a remarkable resemblance to my hessian solder and irons ( sp) .


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

sjm9911, I'm not even in T-Mans shadow for information. But I still want to send him some die cast shavings, and see what he can conjure up with judicious Epoxy applications. "EPOXY MAN" ROFLMAO!!!!!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Heat gun is the best and easiest. Once I used a bleach solution but it reappeared. The heat gun is the best. Once there is a color change it is dead. Try scrubbing that stuff out of cracks etc. Forget it You do have to wash it after but it may occur in the fine recessed areas.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The shell of the 1061 cleaned up. It works fine but I haven't cleaned the motor yet.






The next car was the Hersey Boxcar . The frame was repainted and the trucks were stripped of the spray paint, but the shell was lucky with little overspray.



Brown doors and coil couplers.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

teledoc said:


> Nope nope nope!!!!! Your tender has vertical railings in the front and the rear, along with the ones on top. That alone makes it the 671/2020/4424/4671W tender.....
> 
> Your talking to the "Tender Guru".....remember!!
> 
> The railings and coupler type tells the difference.


One small correction, the 2466WX and 6466WX DID have said railings, I ought to know I have one. It came behind the very early 2025 with the silver smoke stack. Those were found in 1947/8 after that they changed.

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_2025_loco.htm

Carl


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Aside from the tender id I played around trying to guess what was the original set with most of the cars . I had little luck.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hey Junk Man, Oops I mean T Man (aka The Epoxy Man).....

What are you planning on doing to the Station?
The road looks pretty roached, re paint?
Funny it still has the caution box and *do I see the crossing gate too? *Most of the time these are missing.

I wonder what the tab holes are for? See this station. It has none, I don't think my do either. I will run down and look.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I thought it was somewhere it is not, it will take some searching through my stuff to find it.
Maybe later, I did find my Grand Central Station. hwell:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Kwikster, You are correct about the railings, BUT you MISSED something. T-Man's tender is either 671W or 2020W because of "COIL COUPLER". Chances of it being either of the 4000 series tender are pretty slim. YES the 2466W/6466W with the complete railings look like T's but the 2466/6466 have MAGNETIC COUPLER. That's the difference, and how to distinguish which one he has.

T-Man, The contents from that box would not have made any set. The main reason is that the aux cars were all produced 1945-1948, right after Lionel started back up. The 1061 wasn't made until 1963. That is why you had little luck. You could make it your own special set and number it T-????, circa 2015, all original......LOL.:laugh::laugh:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Marx Union Station*

T-Man & Big Ed, I did some digging and came up with some interesting info on both of your Union Stations. It was made by Marx in the 1930's with a #1430 as the identifier. Apparently some versions have no slots in the roof, and others had slots for what appears to be a roof sign. I pulled one photo from "Liveauctioneer" with the roof sign, and then a page from an early catalog from the thirties, showing the "roofed station" in the catalog. There is also a website dealing with just Marx, which is about the best you would find, to help identify Marx products. The link: http://www.marxtinplatetrains.com/index.html:smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos::

Photos of actual station, and catalog page.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That is neat, at this point I have no idea what to do with it. Thanks for the research.

I could paint the base and eventually find a better one. Perhaps with one missing a building.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

There are a few on eBay right now from searching earlier. At least now you have the identity as #1430 Union Station. I think one was listed starting at $0.99. As far as the other items I would call it Lionel T-2015 set, original condition (T= T-Man/2015=year)....


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am more interested in the 417 bell. It would be great to have it work like the video. l just have to work out the relay setup .


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

With all the interest shown about the station I have decided to add it to the gang car track between the bridge and tunnel. Thanks to you DOC and ED, I have a plan for it. 




For some strange reason I get the feeling I am stripping paint all winter.:laugh:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Is it there somewhere in the picture?

I don't see any room for it?

So......paint the roadbed? 
Or just clean her up? 
Too bad it is missing the top piece, I see more that don't have that piece on it.
Maybe it is rarer?

I got to find mine yet, but I think mine does not have that piece on it.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

There is room next to the tunnel, so it is just for show. I have to wire brush it first, The rust is bad in the track bed. The building will get polished up. When you look for junk anything is possible, getting the sign would be neat. Paint will help but it just doesn't go with the litho graph. One good thing is that the floor won't show from the side angle.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Marx 417 instructions*

"T", I did more searching about the 417 and found this, which may help.

http://www.thortrains.net/maracc3.html

This is another one on Marx Paper. From top of page, scroll to #4 about the flasher, and look at all four pages. After that, "click" on 'Timely Table#1', and scroll to page 8, it will show you your flasher/xing sign.

http://marxtinplatetrains.com/marx_paper.htm

Jerry:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I was going to say I don't even see a tunnel.
But I found it up top.

Tell you what, the Meguiars polishing compound after using a little Meguiars rubbing compound works real good.
A little goes a long way, if you happen to use it polish, but don't let it dry. It does not go on like wax were you let it dry. You buff it out then wipe off quickly.

After using the rubbing compound then the polish compound your supposed to wax it. I did not as it won't sit in the rain and the polish is like a wax finish.

You probably won't try it as it is around $7 bucks per bottle.
I used a coupon and got them a little less then $5 bucks.:smokin::thumbsup:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The polishing compound I use has a liquid wax. I also have some car wax maybe the same stuff you have. Thanks for the link Jerry I know very little about good Marx sites and the last book published was insanely priced. 

My station base has holes after the first wire brushing. Bondo time.

Did you hear the legend of the Ghost Gondola, it is said only one can see it if they believe in toy trains. I stripped the gondola at first I thought it was more silver paint but no IT WAS CLEAR! So now I am still stripping. AT least I won't have to paint it.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

After cleaning.









Back side


The Bondo 



The Ghost Gondola soaking


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*I can't wait here it is*


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That would look good clear with blinking LED lights strung inside flashing out through the clear.
Add some Christmas packages? 
Or candy canes and stuff? 
A couple or elves? 
Santa Class and some reindeer?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What is with the hole in the bed of it?:dunno:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

ED the car was designed that way. It is held by four screws in each corner from the inside down and not the bottom up.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

YO T-Man, I have to do a complete rethink on what you got in that box. I actually know why the hole is cut into the bottom of the gondola. I think you actually haven't remnants, not the whole compliment of cars of the 4109W set. That was the "Electronic Control Set". The gondola of that "Electronic Set" needed a hole in the bottom for the control unit. Hard to tell from photos, but it appears that it didn't have brake wheels, but a hole to attach a brake wheel with a mounting pin. 

Now we can back up a little and part of the 4109W set included "Baby Ruth" boxcar with orange/brown door; 4457 Caboose Red/Black window trim; 4424W Whistle tender. The set was lead by the 671R loco, and only car missing would be 5459 Dump car.

I have Greenbergs Guide "Rare & Unusual", and the gondolas of that style were all painted from different color molds, which included Opaque & Clear.

Bottom line is I think you have parts of the Iconic Electronic Control Set, minus the control units, and of course the transformer control "ECU-1":appl::smilie_daumenpos:

I might start calling myself "Master of Research" ROFL!!!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That explains the hole. It must be a leftover though. The frame was solid under the hole. I compared it to another 2452X I have. Keep thinking!







To inventory the cars, 2454 Babe Ruth, 3559 dump car, 2357 caboose, 2452 gondola, 2456 hopper, 2457 caboose, and a 6465 two dome tank car.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The answer is here, I think. http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=2452 under variations.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Maybe it was just leftover stock?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It was stamped X with no hand wheels. 1946 to 47.I saw the Babe Ruth and knew the box was 40's. It must have been left over stock.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*The GONDOLA!!!!*

Okay, here is a pretty definitive answer to the gondola. Also that the shells all started out as a basic plastic mold, and then painted. 

http://tcaetrain.org/articles/collecting/stellagon1/index.html

Below is photo from Greenbergs Vol. V "Rare and Unusual" guide. Read the captions.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cool read doc, never thought about it. So many variations. Crazy.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The 2454X gondola, I clear coated the frame.






The two Dome Tank Car, 6465 with magnetic couplers. The frame was repainted. I repaired two foot holds that had broken off.




The normal step.


The repaired step


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Looks good with clear coat frame, but have a problem with step photo. I initially accessed the reply thru my email and that showed what I would guess was a bent paperclip as a step (just a guess what you used), and then logged into forum and it looks like tanker photo is duplicate photo. So, what did you use for step??


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Photobucket has been painfull. Extra bugs are at work,.

All I did was solder a large paper clip. The gage is a little heavier. I form a squared question mark and solder it. It works best if I use a soldering paste. Quick and easy.

The two cabooses are next. The 2357 shell is a mess with broken bits. The other one ,2457 may get a clear coat. The ends are blued so I am not sure what I want to paint, maybe just the boards on the roof. The sides are staying clear the frame doesn't show on the sides so that will be clear. It is just the roof in question.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

:appl::appl:Yup, I called that one being a paperclip!! The usual "outside the box" thinking, comes up with easy solutions. Have you ever seen this Mystical Box they keep talking about that we have to think outside of?? Never knew there was such a thing, cuz I'm so far out of it all the time!!! There is always a simple solution, if you just take the time and analyze the problem. 

Great save from the junk box.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Photobucket has been painfull. Extra bugs are at work,.


Why not post them here directly?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice T man, my bet was on a staple. Eaither way , looks much better now.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Why not post them here directly?




John, it's all about order.
In the early days I did upload here but my library was so big I could not find a used picture. Photobucket has albums which helps me a lot. Are you suggesting the gallery?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The 2456 hopper with coil couplers and staple end trucks. 





I would of posted this sooner but the picture was a blur and a retake was in needed.. The shell requiring a little cleaning. 

I do have a theory on the silver paint. I think someone wanted a Christmas set and thought silver was the way t go.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The gallery was finally fixed, so it's now a possible option.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That is true. My attachment list was huge.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Hate it when I loose a post.*

Now I have saved the best for last. The two cabooses. The 2357.

The shell needs some work.



Love those battery boxes.





Also the 2475. Remember the silver bullet.
Now refreshed.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks too nice T, maybe paint it silver for Christmas


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It's clear coated.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Thanks for posting all of this. Somewhere in it one of you showed a instructions for a 390 collapsable tunnel, original cost $.25. I have two of them and got one in the mid-1950s. Always wondered what it was.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That was posted by Teledoc on post number 25. The darnest things appear when you least expect them.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Why didn't you get a very fine brush and paint back on the lettering on the caboose before you clear coated it?:dunno:

Or maybe a real fine tipped Sharpie pen would have done it?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

One side does not have the full lettering but it is a good idea.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I got the bayonet bulb and assembled the caboose.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

T-man, Leave it alone, it looks absolutely great the way it is. It actually looks weathered in a way. :appl:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I like it too! , next is the other caboose 2357 with a broken shell.



A little surgery.



A little mold.



The mold set for just under two hours and third time I used the heat gun. It loved the heat. I cleaned up the edges before I pulled it off then I gently rocked it. A keeper,

Pour the epoxy.





And Wait......


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Times Up*

After the cure was finished it took a little rock action and Viola! 





New RooF.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

teledoc said:


> T-man, Leave it alone, it looks absolutely great the way it is. It actually looks weathered in a way. :appl:


It sort of looks like it was pulled through a field fire.
Looks like flames were lapping at it. :smilie_daumenpos:

Nice job on the caboose's, T Man aka The Epoxy man.:smilie_daumenpos:
The epoxy caboose, what flavor will it be?

People see your threads where you do the epoxy molds and think, dam I threw mine away when I dropped it. 
I wonder out of all the caboose's made how many lost that same part.
I see a lot that are broken there one way or the other.

When you made the mold what did you use for it?
Some kind of clay?
You keep all your molds right?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Very cool t man. The first one came out awesome! The molding came out very good too. Beats my fix, sand it down, what roof!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It is just normal plaster. Depending on the depressions you get one or two uses. The plaster if not too thick dries in two hours and had a little help with a heat gun. The caboose is funny , this time I chose to mold , other times, I have cut the parts and glued. I also used a paper clip in a w shape and pressed it in the gap. I used a u shape on the corner that is drying now. I just finished adding heat to it.

I have matched the color once in arcylic latex, brown red black should do it.

Thanks for the comments, This caboose will finish the box except for the Marx Towers which I plan on another thread.

Time to sand it out.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)




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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Now I know why I can never find any plaster when I need it. T bought it all!!!!!! Again, another nice save, and great job. :appl:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

A final picture of the caboose


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Another nice save T!!!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The Junk Box Project is still alive. Since the begining of the year I have been searching for a Marx ten spoke motor for the Vanderbilt Engine. Yesterday I was at the LHS and behold I was offered a scrap motor and my search ended. What Luck. Here it is in working order.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

T-Man, You apparently have a decent LHS that still has junk to get. I only have two real local LHS's and one is run by two brothers, who have EGO's and attitudes that I can't deal with. The majority of their stock is all the newer stuff, and close to nothing as far as any Prewar, early Postwar. What they do have, is too high priced to bother haggling. The other store isn't open during the daytime hours, only from about 4 p.m. till around 9-9:30, and pretty much into the new stuff with all the remote controlled stuff, and modern engines. The only old stuff is mostly Postwar on consignment, and rather common items. Sure miss the old times, of having a decent hobby shop, that dealt in just about anything, and they would go out of their way to help you. 

Nice find on the Marx motor.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That is why I help them out. Mike does buy used lots . He knows my weakness is his junk box!

The next step was the shell . Red and badly scratched so I went to a strip down.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

T, Are you going with the same color, or going different route. Should turn out nice when finished.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I was thinkng of staying with a red. I should look around for a tender I don't know what goes with it. Guess it is time for Google images. 

I had a good day today. I found a ZW in good condition . I am in the big time Now!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

After Google I found a tender for the Vanderbilt. I recently cleaned one up.



The images were interesting and I learned something. I was interested in red but the tender is black with a little silver. I decided to do red and black. One two tone image had a black boiler and light sides. I didn't like it and it drew attention to the flats on the front, so I reverse the idea




First the primer the bad part was the top center th area was rough.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Next step was to layer the Bondo putty and smooth it out.




It took a few times.



Then paint.



That is as far as I got today.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

You going to keep basic layout on the tender, but change the color to red, with ??silver or grey?? Center strip for re- lettering??


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks good t!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks!



teledoc said:


> You going to keep basic layout on the tender, but change the color to red, with ??silver or grey?? Center strip for re- lettering??


Well I have the correct tender but not the color. So to match the tender and stay true to the engine color I am going with a red boiler and black sides and cab. 

I am hesitant on copying the silver and white strips on the tender.

The Bondo scatch putty came out great.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

T-Man said:


> The Bondo scatch putty came out great.


It's did, and I learned something, rather then small built up Coates, I'll use more and sand more I always screw up the body work.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The initial coat was thick but covered a lot. When I got real close I primed again to show any flaws and worked those. You have to be tenacious at this point, to get it to look right. This is fun!

One secret is to give it time to dry, I used a heat gun to help.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

So the next thing is black.


URL=http://s498.photobucket.com/user/Railroad-Rob/media/junk%20box%203/IMG_5545.jpg.html]







[/URL]



Then peel the tape

 






So now I can match up the tender


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Fantastic so far, and the tender should turn out just a good. do you intend to add lettering or stripes to the tender, or just a strict paint job??


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I wasn't planning on painting the tender. I may look at the roof if I were to paint anything . The base was painted and the sides have too much detail with rivets. Maybe I will come across the red tender some day.


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## Scotie (Sep 27, 2013)

Just found this thread--fantastic work.
A real love for the old and abandoned trains that no one else would look at twice. Great when you are finished with them.
Scotie


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks, it has been fun.

The engine is done. From the picture I think the tender is fine. The black flows through and the red just pops.






URL=http://s498.photobucket.com/user/Railroad-Rob/media/junk%20box%203/IMG_5565.jpg.html]







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One mistake was made.I cleaned the red plastic with GOO Gone and touched the fresh paint. Not good. I had to sand and touch up the areas.


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