# Lubricant and oil?



## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

So I have came across some articles that say you should lube and oil your trains when doing maintenance? Well what's the difference between lube and oil and what counts as lube and oil? Also where should lube and oil be applied. Sorry if these are dumb questions but any help would be appreciated?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lionel2037 said:


> So I have came across some articles that say you should lube and oil your trains when doing maintenance? Well what's the difference between lube and oil and what counts as lube and oil? Also where should lube and oil be applied. Sorry if these are dumb questions but any help would be appreciated?


Check out this page in this site it has pictures showing,
http://thortrains.net/manual7.htm

Lube & oil.
Lube(grease) has the consistency of Vaseline.
Oil is like your cars motor oil.
Most here on the site for O gauge trains oil everything with your cars motor oil 5/20 or some use 5/30.
Some lube (grease) hardens up with age, especially the old Lionel lube. If you have an old train we recommend removing the lube and using oil in it's place.

Basically everything that moves you should oil, lightly, just a few well placed drops. Try to keep it off the wheels and the surface of the rollers that ride on the third middle rail.
Some engines have a oil reservoir, you just add some oil and your good for a while. What trains we talking about?
There are a few train engines that need a dab of some kind of lube (grease), but Lionel lube in not recommended.

In that link I put in above, though hard to see are the spots that say O for (oil) and L for (lube). 
Just LIGHTLY use all oil and you will be fine. Don't use grease.

If you have any hardened lube (grease) clean it off the best you can and use oil instead, what you can't get off the oil will break it down eventually.
Then oil when the gears look dry, but it should stay oiled for a while.
All depends on how much you run them.

Check out the rest of that site it has a lot of useful info.

What trains do you have?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good info from Ed, above.

Ditto to the 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil. It won't gum up over time.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Good info from Ed, above.
> 
> Ditto to the 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil. It won't gum up over time.
> 
> TJ


I remember even the servoguy recommended a bit of actual grease on something.
I forget what it was, maybe he will add to this thread.
And what type of grease is best for what ever it was.
He even oils lightly the armature, that is the thing that the brushes come in contact with, it makes your motor go.
One day you will have to clean that up too. 

But basically everything that moves could use oil, just use a little and keep it off the things I mentioned.

Let the thread sit a while, more will/should add to it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I use oil for everything. I don't use grease at all. I have a 2025 that was in a box in the closet for 35 years. When I took it out to run it, it ran just fine. I did lube it on the basis that it hadn't been lubed in 35 years. 

I lube the couplers to make them operate easier. I lube the wheels of the cars and the bolster that the truck swivels on.

I oil the armature, but one caution here. Clean out the slots in the commutator before you oil it, or the dirt in the slots will be released by the oil and foul the commutator. 

I use BrakeKleen for cleaning most things that are greasy. Quick and easy, but I wouldn't use it on painted surfaces.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK, Servoguy I thought you said that.
Someone else must have.

I think it was about something that is enclosed, like a gear box on some train or accessory?

Maybe I dreamed it?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I hope it didn't take him 35 years to find it?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Big Ed, I recall that too. It was on the F-3's (2343 etc) for their enclosed worm drives. I just can't recall which tread it was in atm, even a quick search didn't remove my senility 

Carl


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You (and I) can't remember everything that is stored in our (old) memory banks.
Maybe we need an upgrade? I am glad someone else admits to it. 
At least we remembered something about it, as the ones who recommended the lube have not said anything, they must have forgotten completely even saying it.


I think your right about the train/s #'s in question, I remember something about it, then everyone gave their opinions on what type/brand of lube to use on them.

I can't find it.hwell: 


Pooky.....The search does work for me.......sometimes.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I use Lithium grease or Lubriplate on gears. I have a 2333 slicked up.

I am not sure of the thread yu are looking for . That has hapened to me plenty of times.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

After an exhaustive search EUREKA!!!!! I found it  http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=14821&page=3 post #23 to be exact. Guess I just didn't go back far enough.

Carl


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Kwikster said:


> After an exhaustive search EUREKA!!!!! I found it  http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=14821&page=3 post #23 to be exact. Guess I just didn't go back far enough.
> 
> Carl


Only 2 said that they use grease on them, I thought T Man was one.

See Pooky the search worked.

I guess I would use grease on those, sounds logical being as to where they are.

Good searching you get a star.
And if it works it is a shooting star for you.:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lionel2037 (The OP) came back and never said nothing?

I guess he doesn't want to interrupt us.


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## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

Lol sorry guys I'm still here I was busy doing the christmas eve stuff with the family, I'm running a Lionel 2037 engine right now. I'm almost done putting it back togather from a cleaning and polish project. Ill post pics up soon.


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## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

Here are some pics of the 2037


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You cleaned it up?

I hope this pictures are the before shots.

When you had the shell off (did you have the shell off?) you should have cleaned all the rust off.
A little wd-40, then a dremal tool with a stainless wire wheel or a brass one will polish up the wheels and get rid of a lot of the rust.

It almost looks like that loco has been painted before?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

BE, I have to agree it looks painted. Especially in that photo you used, that looks like a masking point. IMHO, looks like a strong candidate for a total strip and repaint. Overall, the shell looks to be in good shape. 

Carl


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## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

Well I tried to polish the side rods the best I could, and at this point I don't have a dremel tool. So I had to use what I had guys. As far as the loco being painted I'm not sure this is how my grandpa gave it to me but he has past now. How hard would a strip and paint be and how would I get the numbers back on?


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Paint stripping is not overly difficult. Oven cleaner (boiler in a bag method) commercial strippers have been used. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2959&highlight=stripping that link is a place to start. I recently stripped a plastic tender using a product called Chameleon, low odor but fairly slow. Getting the numbers on is actually easy, some use waterslide decals others dry transfer lettering. There are many threads you can peruse to look at various ways to do many things. There are even places to get the original paint in all the colors used. One thing I will stress, if you go off the shelf paint from a local store, use the same brand paint AND primer, you can have reactions with less than desirable results. A product I have used to polish pieces like side rods it Nevr-dull. Works like a dream brings out a shine as good as new, maybe better. 

Carl


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## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

Hey Carl thanks for all the great advice.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

We have had problems with Rustoleum Paint. Stay away from it. Krylon has been dependable so far. See my thread Boiler in a bag. All you need is an old cooking pan. Oven cleaner from a dollar store, scotchbrite and disposable gloves.
The first spray I leave overnight in a food storage bag not enclosed tightly.
That paint has wonderful sheen for a flat black and it is just a cheep Wallmart brand. 98 to 1.32 a can where you can find it. Cheep paint is thin an important quality for spraying thin.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You should have asked for a dremal tool from Santa.
That tool with attachments comes in handy for a lot of stuff.:thumbsup:

Did...you...have...the...shell...off?


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## Lionel2037 (Dec 2, 2012)

Yes I had it off.


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## Lantz62 (Apr 11, 2015)

big ed said:


> Check out this page in this site it has pictures showing,
> http://thortrains.net/manual7.htm
> 
> Lube & oil.
> ...


Hello,
I'm fascinated by the pros and cons of using grease in certain applications. Case in point is a recently acquired Lionel 6-8606 B & A Hudson. Upon receiving it (in mint condition, yeah right) tests revealed it was binding in both directions for two reasons, number 1 being of course the dried grease in the gearbox if that's the term. Secondly, one crosshead guide had be bent inward somehow causing the crosshead on that side to jam. The second issue was an easy fix although a full teardown was necessary. 
Back to the grease situation. I cleaned out the gear reservoir of all chunks of dried grease, cleaned gears and blew it out with air after spraying some brake clean in there. Good as new. Instead of using gear grease as a replacement, I used Lubriplate and applied a liberal amount where it was needed and buttoned it up. Upon testing the loco, before re-attaching the shell, I noted the crosshead issue was mostly resolved but the Lubriplate choice was perhaps the wrong approach as it was working it's way through the axle bearings and onto the backs of the wheels. So.....is there a non-grease product, other than motor oil, that will stay in the gear reservoir and 2 other axle lube points? Lubriplate just seems too thin to do the job. Thanks guys, for any suggestions forthcoming. Richard


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

I mostly use oil but for worm gears I tend to use a grease called Red n Tacky by Lucas. A tiny bit goes a long way and on my older trains with pullmor motors it seams to work better than oil. For newer lionel trains it's oil only.

MTH recommends the gearbox get a grease but I have not come to the point where I've needed to grease any of my mth trains. There's no way to get the red and tacky in there so not sure what I would do in that case. I guess I could just use oil.


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## Yukon Jack (Feb 1, 2014)

The best oil I have found is CLP BreakFree. Cleans and lubricates, and never gets hard. Super stuff IMHO.  

To strip old paint, I use CitraStrip - comes in both a gel and a spray. I never could figure that oven cleaner thing....nasty stuff.:eyes:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Agreed with the above, I also make sure to run the loco off the tracks for a bit in case I over oiled. Ive used grease before and oil for worm gears , really never had a problem with either but haven't had the 50 yearsto test out if te grease dries up


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The only think I can find data on is motor oil. It has a vapor pressure at 100C of 10^-2 torr. At room temperature it has a vapor pressure of 10^-5. A torr is a millimeter of mercury. Atmospheric pressure at sea level on a standard day is 760 mm of mercury. At room temperature and 760 mm atmospheric pressure, motor oil essentially doesn't evaporate. If it did, your car's engine would be in trouble as the oil would evaporate.

I have a 2025 that I ran back in 1965. It was lubed with Valvolene 20W-40. When I took it out of the box about 5 years ago, it ran just fine. The oil was still on the gears and bearings. 

I can't find vapor pressure data for other lubricants including Lucas Red & Tacky, so I don't use them. I don't use LaBelle products because data is not available. I don't use WD-40, grease, 3 in 1 oil, light machine oil, gun oil, sewing machine oil, etc. Motor oil works just fine, even for gears, and doesn't evaporate and get sticky or hard.


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## WildcatRR (Jul 28, 2013)

*oil or lube*

I recently had a poor running F3 #2343 and when I pulled it apart the lube (grease) had semi hardened up. The gearbox was full of grease but where the gear was traveling had made a channel in the grease and was dry. I cleaned the grease out and replaced with oil (5w-20) in the gearbox just enough to touch the gears. After putting it back together the engine ran like a scalded dog. I was curious about the other engines I had and after pulling a few of them apart I found the same basic problem, the gears had made a channel in the grease and the grease in the gearbox was really doing nothing. I cleaned out the grease and replaced it with oil. The engines never ran better. I now believe in the motor oil use. Just throwing in my 2 cents of what worked for me.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I had the same experience with a few locos: 2343, 736, etc. Motor oil never dries out. 

Once thing good about hard grease: Sometimes you can buy the loco cheap because it either doesn't run at all or runs poorly. The grease that Lionel uses will get hard and so in many cases the locos don't run and so the people didn't play with them and they were stored in a closed. They didn't get all beat up then.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

One more thing about grease. If a person fills the gearbox with grease, how do the bearings get lubed? Answer is they don't.

Lack of proper lube will do severe damage to a loco.

I have a 2343 that I bought 40 years ago. The oil in the gearboxes is still there and not dried out or gummy.


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## Lantz62 (Apr 11, 2015)

Thanks to all who replied to my question of oil vs grease. Although I would say that the choice is partly model specific, the info is nonetheless very helpful. 
:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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