# 3D Printing and The Future of Model Railroading



## WickedRail38 (Apr 13, 2017)

This is more of a curiosity and to start a discussion. I know 3D printing is still fairly new to the market. I don't have a 3D Printer nor do I intend to buy one anytime soon. My questions are:


Has anyone considered this as an option to create your buildings or even rolling stock parts?

Has anyone tried 3D printing for your model(s)? If so, what are your thoughts about using it as a medium?

One more question, do any of you see this as a popular tool for model Railroading in the future?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

There are already several specialists producing parts and kits, in the UK at least. I imagine things will develop that way in US as well. It really depends what interest there there is in special items and how the market is already catered for by existing conventionally produced products.

I would have thought investing in a printer might be a too expensive for most people and the best option for most would be to go to someone offering this service.


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Printers are not to expensive now a days you can snag one with a 12" hot bed for about $300 bucks! 
What holds me back is the programming needed to run it. I'm still new in the 3D modeling. I have made my IronMan hands with 3D printing , but I used someone else's files for it. 
I'm still working on a box in blender yet  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WickedRail38 (Apr 13, 2017)

3D modelling software can be fairly expensive too. Google Sketchup is popular but costs around $500 for a license. You can download a free 30 day trial, but those often limit what you can do. I believe a lot of printers come with 3D software, I am unsure on how good that software is. It seems that model railroading would be an incredible market for 3D printing. But you do need to know about computer aided 3D drawing, however. I think a lot of hobbyists still prefer to have a more hands on approach too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The technology is coming along fast. I don't yet see the need for having my own printer, but there is a decent market in 3rd party stuff: you go to someone's website and pick your part / shape / model. Sometimes you can customize it. When you place your order, they send it to a commecial printing firm (usually Shapeways) that prints it and ships it to you. Expensive, but effective. I expect the price will come down as this becomes more mainstream.

Just as a comparison, a white metal fantasy figurine, human sized, in "Heroic 25mm" scale (actually 28mm), or about 1/72, runs about $9 plus shipping. A customized, highly detailed (as in, you can see the individual rings in chainmail) 30mm figure, 3D printed in durable (not hollow), high quality plastic, runs $30, excluding shipping. The same figure, in less detail, or lower quality plastic, goes for $19. Not quite apples to apples, but a good illustration of how it can work.

If you're willing to pay a little more, you don't need either a 3D printer or 3D CAD skill to benefit from the technology.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

And, for anyone intersted, here is a source of 3D printed parts in various scales from a guy woking with Shapeways: http://www.mrdetailparts.com


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

There's actually a huge section of train stuff on Shapeways, in a number of different scales including narrow-gauge: https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace/miniatures/trains/

Regarding the CAD software... yes there are programs with a huge cost to them. There are also a number of absolutely free programs that are fully-functional without a trial period. The real problem is that you need to dedicate a fair amount of time to learning the software. I dove in far enough to understand the basics... Essentially what you are doing is laying down shapes. For example, start with a square, then give it some height to make a box. You can further modify it by making impressions or extrusions on any of the faces. Then add another shape to create a new feature... You basically build your object out of cylinders, boxes, hexagons, etc.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you can adjust the size of an object. Let's say you create or purchase the file for the driver wheel of a steamer. It may have been created at a specific scale, but when you set up the 3D printer you can adjust the size by a percentage. Say the model was for a 48" driver but your project requires a 45" driver... simply print it at 93.75% and you've got the perfect fit. You could take a model made for Z and print it at LG scale -- since the models are based on a collection of shapes, those shapes can be increased in size without losing any detail.

Yeah I really want to get into 3D printing some day, and we have a nice printer at work that I can use... some day...


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

The 3D printer hardware and the firmware in the 3d printer are the easy part. Its getting from "I want to make this" to the gcode that drives the printer that has a steep learning curve.


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

Shdwdrgn said:


> There's actually a huge section of train stuff on Shapeways, in a number of different scales including narrow-gauge: https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace/miniatures/trains/
> 
> Regarding the CAD software... yes there are programs with a huge cost to them. There are also a number of absolutely free programs that are fully-functional without a trial period. The real problem is that you need to dedicate a fair amount of time to learning the software. I dove in far enough to understand the basics... Essentially what you are doing is laying down shapes. For example, start with a square, then give it some height to make a box. You can further modify it by making impressions or extrusions on any of the faces. Then add another shape to create a new feature... You basically build your object out of cylinders, boxes, hexagons, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. I don't think my wallet is going to be happy about it, though.

This is more or less what I was talking about, elsewhere, and proof that 3D printing is what I hoped it would be. I might be investing in a 3D printer at some point. >.>


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I've actually been watching a kit for a nice little 3-axis CNC router on ebay that runs about $200. I believe this also uses G-code, and I could get my feet wet on a 2D surface making circuit boards, before moving up to a 3D printer some day.


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

3D printers are still too far out of my price range, and I'm not sure if I'd want to use one. I have a lot of fun scratch building things out of spare materials and such. Putting in a design and coming back an hour later to get my 3D printed item seems kind of dull. 

If there was a situation where I needed a part for the drive system of a loco that was too hard to find, then I would consider paying for time on a 3D printer to make said part. Other than that, meh.

-J.


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## 1905dave (Sep 18, 2016)

WickedRail38 said:


> Has anyone considered this as an option to create your buildings or even rolling stock parts?


I have considered buying some 3D printed trucks and semaphore blades, but that is about it. I have seen a really cool Gn15 steam engine that was 3D printed and it is very nice. However, I can scratchbuild stuff and in the time it would take for me to do the CAD development work to draw plans for a boxcar and the cost the have it 3D printed I could scratchbuilt a master and resin cast a dozen or more of the models.



> One more question, do any of you see this as a popular tool for model Railroading in the future?


Yes, but the price for the printer or availability will have to come down. The castings can have some roughness due to the printing process. As was said before, the limitation is the ability to provide the CAD drawings of complicated shapes. There are scanners that will allow you to scan an object and print a copy of it, but that is not exactly what is required and would be very expensive. 

For mass producing things, injection molding and resin casting are way faster and cheaper. For the one of a kind , really small run stuff, or stuff that it only occasionally needed, the 3D printing is ideal.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, yes, I don't see mass production being done by 3D printing any time soon.

But a lot of us are interested in small batch or one-off stuff.

There's probably a market for people selling the files, too, for printing at home.


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## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2018)

I have a local library which prints items up to 10 inches. I had a train depot printed, to see what quality i got. Bear in mind I made a 3D model on cad software (which I did for a living). Now retired. I had it printed in white for about $9. I then painted with primer and colors.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

https://www.thingiverse.com/ Search for model railroad or HO scale. If you enjoy kits, an Anet A6 printer from China (and maybe even a US warehouse ) is less than $200, and is a really nice printer - just a little slow. As a control systems engineer, I would never have imagined this thing could run for hours printing something at 0.4 mm (might be 0.04) layers at a time and not lose track of where it is. Stepper motors are amazing! Thingiverse has an A6 group along with face book.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> https://www.thingiverse.com/ Search for model railroad or HO scale. If you enjoy kits, an Anet A6 printer from China (and maybe even a US warehouse ) is less than $200, and is a really nice printer - just a little slow. As a control systems engineer, I would never have imagined this thing could run for hours printing something at 0.4 mm (might be 0.04) layers at a time and not lose track of where it is. Stepper motors are amazing! Thingiverse has an A6 group along with face book.


If you don't mind dealing with the layering effect, you can use a heated filament model and get some really good structures and scenic details like mailboxes, streetlights, etc.

For really fine details, though, you need a fused deposition model, which sprays a liquid resin then cures it by UV light or laser. The cost of those models isn't yet down to what I would call "widely available" yet -- $2500 or so.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> https://www.thingiverse.com/ Search for model railroad or HO scale.


Thanks Lemonhawk, I did just that this morning, found a nice little 36' flatcar, and just had to run out at lunch and get a spool of filament. We've had a real nice 3D printer sitting just outside my office door for the last two years, and I finally got to use it. I also found some mounting brackets for the common SG90 servos and printed up a couple of those to test... Looks like it will be just right to mount up flat on the underside of the plywood.

The detail on the flatcar fell short however. I think the default profile in the software is for a 'fast' mode, so it barely even made little nubs where the stake pockets are supposed to be. However I did find their page with other profiles and plan to test out the 'high detail' settings on Monday. I do wish I knew how to work the CAD software though, I would love to remove most of the bed of this car leaving room for a 1/16" steel plate to give it some good weight. Throw a wood plank deck over the top of the steel and this would make a pretty nice car.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Shdwdrgn, don't! Using a CNC machine is difficult in making PC boards. The boards are not flat, so the CNC machine has to map the height of the PC board first before you can mill it. much cheaper and easier to use a cheap PC board maker! It all sounded so simple, but until you get the mapping software running its just a nightmare. I've had much better success with my ANET A6 3d Printer. I do have the capability to Auto level it, but after using it for a while Auto level on the printer was not a big deal. The setup to level is quick and only needs to be done on the A6 about once a week! Thingiverse has tons of stuff to print without the steeper learning curve of doing your own modeling.


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## sachsr1 (Mar 3, 2016)

I've had a 3D printer for about 2 years and I love it. I've 3D printed servo mounts, throttle holders, and a bunch of stuff. Almost everything I've printed I've gotten off of Thingiverse. I've had good luck painting what I've printed to get rid of the "layer lines". I use high build automotive primer, and a lot of sanding. I recently built signals that are almost all 3D printed (brass tube for pole). Last week a friend sent me a link to a clearance printer for $60 on Hobbyking. I decided it was time to double my output capacity


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

sachsr1 said:


> Last week a friend sent me a link to a clearance printer for $60 on Hobbyking. I decided it was time to double my output capacity


got a link or reference ?? been looking for a cheap kit ..


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## sachsr1 (Mar 3, 2016)

They were here, but now they're back up to $160. I'm glad I ordered when I did, because they sold out shortly after I ordered mine. 

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/malyan-metal-3d-printer-m200-2.html


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

sachsr1 said:


> They were here, but now they're back up to $160.



aargh.... can't win them all


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## sachsr1 (Mar 3, 2016)

I was looking at another kit like mine on eBay for about $140, but I wasn't looking forward to assembling it. I got mine all assembled from someone who knew what they were doing. I did some minor tweaks to it, but it was up and running when I got it. 


https://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Upgrade...148541?hash=item33e0d159fd:g:m-kAAOSwFmxabtK7


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## sachsr1 (Mar 3, 2016)

There's this one?
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/tronxy-x-1-desktop-3d-printer-kit-us-plug.html


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

sachsr1 said:


> There's this one?
> https://hobbyking.com/en_us/tronxy-x-1-desktop-3d-printer-kit-us-plug.html



went ahead and hit the 'alert me' button, it's a cheap way to start, only 150mm cubed print area, but it's only 120$ ??


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Lemonhawk said:


> Shdwdrgn, don't! Using a CNC machine is difficult in making PC boards. The boards are not flat, so the CNC machine has to map the height of the PC board first before you can mill it. much cheaper and easier to use a cheap PC board maker! It all sounded so simple, but until you get the mapping software running its just a nightmare. I've had much better success with my ANET A6 3d Printer. I do have the capability to Auto level it, but after using it for a while Auto level on the printer was not a big deal. The setup to level is quick and only needs to be done on the A6 about once a week! Thingiverse has tons of stuff to print without the steeper learning curve of doing your own modeling.


I had to back up to the first page to figure out what you were talking about... yeah I was looking at them last year, haven't had time to think about it since -- however the PCB's I'm interested in making would be less than 2 square inches, so not a lot of room for warpage (depending on the amount of overhang needed for clamps).

@wvgca -- 150mm cube could be quite a lot of area to work with, depending on what scale and period you are in. That's at least a 40' car in HO, and if you rotate the image 45 degrees on the plate you might be able to get a 50-footer in there. The one we have at work will print a 12x12 inch area so I could make some fairly large items. We use Lulzbot here because their factory is only a half hour drive from our office.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You will be amazed at how level the CNC machine expects that PCB to be. Luckily there is freeware out there that will do the mapping, it just didn't yet work with my CNC machine. I did try some small PCB's but gave up because it would go from too light to digging in just in a short distance and unlike a 3D printer its very difficult to level the bed. You really need the mapping software. Can't remember the name. its a webdriver for the CNC machine which used an Arduino and GBRL.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Ah well, will keep it in mind if I ever get to that point. Currently working on an arduino project to make an accessory decoder for 16 to 992 servos plus 16 more on/off controls on a 4x2 inch board. Would be nice to transfer that to a PCB once I have it working. Most of my projects are low quantities like this so it seems like it could be cheaper in the long run if I could just cut the traces myself.


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