# My 312 PRR K5 will run soon.



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Probably 2 years ago I bought a 312 with issues. And sadly I have done little with it. It was cheap, 37.00. I believe it to be a 1946,
It has slotted brushes and a broke off square stud for the eccentric linkage. Jeff Kane had a wheel with a good stud for 4.00.
I was going to convert the slotted brushes to shouldered brushes just so all my steamers would use the same brushes. So it would need a new brush cap and maybe a different armature. The 312 had been in storage since 1952, so she was stiff. It has good paint so worth some work. Earlier this year I tried pulling the bad wheel
with the 2 screw driver method. Instead of the wheel coming off it started pulling the axle out of a good wheel. Last night I ran across a running K5 chassis on ebay. Actually the seller had 3 running K5 chassis. All different. One had nice pulmor wheels but a round stud, which would not work. Any way I bought one. Seller says it runs well. Seller was BigGameBoy. I have bought parts from him before. He is a good honest seller. It has no smoke unit or choochoo but I can move those from my unit. Comes with nice male and female plugs. And of coarse a motor.
No pulmor on one I bought. My K5 has pulmor but tires are very dry and bad cracks. I thought all K5s had pulmor but maybe not. Should be able to get my K5 running now.

Here is a question for flyernut. Is a K5 chassis different than a Pacific chassis?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Probably 2 years ago I bought a 312 with issues. And sadly I have done little with it. It was cheap, 37.00. I believe it to be a 1946,
> It has slotted brushes and a broke off square stud for the eccentric linkage. Jeff Kane had a wheel with a good stud for 4.00.
> I was going to convert the slotted brushes to shouldered brushes just so all my steamers would use the same brushes. So it would need a new brush cap and maybe a different armature. The 312 had been in storage since 1952, so she was stiff. It has good paint so worth some work. Earlier this year I tried pulling the bad wheel
> with the 2 screw driver method. Instead of the wheel coming off it started pulling the axle out of a good wheel. Last night I ran across a running K5 chassis on ebay. Actually the seller had 3 running K5 chassis. All different. One had nice pulmor wheels but a round stud, which would not work. Any way I bought one. Seller says it runs well. Seller was BigGameBoy. I have bought parts from him before. He is a good honest seller. It has no smoke unit or choochoo but I can move those from my unit. Comes with nice male and female plugs. And of coarse a motor.
> ...


It depends on the year Al. The early units with the reverse in the boiler has a different head-light set-up, etc. Units with the reverse in the tender have the head-light on the boiler face but that's about the only differences.. A later 312 chassis is the same as a 290, etc... And of course, any problems with the 312 send it out to me, shipping both ways only...Loren...PS.. get yourself a wheel puller. The 2 screwdriver method works, but sometimes the axle will pull out of the good wheel,lol, like what happened to you...PSS. I too have bought parts from BigGameBoy, and never had a problem, very good seller.


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## flyguy55 (Apr 20, 2015)

Got a nice running smokin 312 SIB on the for sale forum,,,actually it is a whole set.....


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Very nice set, flyguy55.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I just have one comment about Biggameboy, which (good Seller) is he said he doesn’t tear locos apart, to individual parts. Baloney, as he is maximizing his end profit. I don’t mind it, but don’t lie to me, when questioned. Yes, I have dealt with him numerous times.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't know where or how he gets his parts. He might canalblize Locomotives. I am not fond of that practice either. At what he sells his parts for he is not coming out that great. I bought a running chassis, all that was left was a smoke unit, a shell, and the tender.
I paid him 30.00 and a complete 312 would bring roughly 70.00. The other parts would/might get him above 70.00 but not enough to be worth all that extra shipping and such. At least to me.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

teledoc said:


> I just have one comment about Biggameboy, which (good Seller) is he said he doesn’t tear locos apart, to individual parts. Baloney, as he is maximizing his end profit. I don’t mind it, but don’t lie to me, when questioned. Yes, I have dealt with him numerous times.


He sure does tear engines apart, otherwise where would he get all those parts,lol!!.. There's a difference between him and us; to him it's a business, to us it's a labor of love....


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

His service has come in handy a few times. His parts is what got my 282 running great.
I got my 282 in 1955 used and since 1959 it ran very hot and at half speed. I can run the snot out of it now and it does not even get warm.


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## dooper (Nov 9, 2015)

The more engines that are used for parts results in one less engine in the marketplace. So, if he sells parts from one 302, there will only be 499,999 left whole, thus making ours more valuable. (LOL)


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

My 312 will not be running soon. Got my running chassis. It is not going to help much.
Pictures were not good enough for me to see a cracked whitewall and shortly after removing loco from shipping box one of the driver wheels just fell off of axle. So it is out of quartering. Will try to eyeball it. First time disappointed in item from BigGameBoy. He offered me 2 different wheels. Kinda done with him. This 312 might be jinxed. So I got a good motor and some wheels and a frame out of purchase. Not a total loss but not what I expected.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

mopac said:


> My 312 will not be running soon. Got my running chassis. It is not going to help much.
> Pictures were not good enough for me to see a cracked whitewall and shortly after removing loco from shipping box one of the driver wheels just fell off of axle. So it is out of quartering. Will try to eyeball it. First time disappointed in item from BigGameBoy. He offered me 2 different wheels. Kinda done with him. This 312 might be jinxed. So I got a good motor and some wheels and a frame out of purchase. Not a total loss but not what I expected.


Sorry that it wasn't as expected. I've gotten some discrete parts from him for my 312. But, only individual parts, never anything complex. I'm certain you can get it running. My 312 rebuild ended up costing me more than it is worth, but I had fun doing it! I look at it this way, if it cost me $100 to fix/build a $70 locomotive, I probably had $30 worth of fun and learning along the way.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

shaker281 said:


> Sorry that it wasn't as expected. I've gotten some discrete parts from him for my 312. But, only individual parts, never anything complex. I'm certain you can get it running. My 312 rebuild ended up costing me more than it is worth, but I had fun doing it! I look at it this way, if it cost me $100 to fix/build a $70 locomotive, I probably had $30 worth of fun and learning along the way.


Way back when; I lived on my sailboat and I was told relative to boats, parts and accessories, that if you had to ask how much it cost then you can't afford it! It must still be true concerning model/toy railroads.:laugh::laugh::laugh: Keep on plugging along Al! In the end we do get enjoyment out of it. I like the part about $30 fun and learning.hwell:


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> My 312 will not be running soon. Got my running chassis. It is not going to help much.
> Pictures were not good enough for me to see a cracked whitewall and shortly after removing loco from shipping box one of the driver wheels just fell off of axle. So it is out of quartering. Will try to eyeball it. First time disappointed in item from BigGameBoy. He offered me 2 different wheels. Kinda done with him. This 312 might be jinxed. So I got a good motor and some wheels and a frame out of purchase. Not a total loss but not what I expected.


Send it out to me. If I can swing the shipping, I'll pay to send it back to you...Can't beat that right??.. I have axles, wheels, etc, all on hand....


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Appreciate the offer. I will try to piece it together first. Really don't want to spend any more on this 312. Still in it cheap but it can get away from you quick. What would life be without AF frustration. I wouldn't know.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I forgot to say it was a polished chassis. Yep, someone took the times to polish this chassis. I knew that. And yep, some idiot pulled the wheels to polish behind the wheels. That I did not know.
Oh, and the brain child polished all the black off of drivers. Could not see that in pics.
The wheels don't look bad. Just different. I do not think seller did it. I doubt he has time to. Seller had 3 running chassis to pick from. For sure I picked the wrong one. I had to have a square stud, so that dropped choice to 2. One had round stud. Of the 2 only one said runs well. So thats the one I bought. It just did not work out. Should have been simple. Move shell and smoke unit from old chassis to new one, service reverse unit, and run it. Never is that easy is it.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I forgot to say it was a polished chassis. Yep, someone took the times to polish this chassis. I knew that. And yep, some idiot pulled the wheels to polish behind the wheels.
> Oh, and the brain child polished all the black off of drivers. Could not see that in pics.
> The wheels don't look bad. Just different. I do not think seller did it. I doubt he has time to. Seller had 3 running chassis to pick from. For sure I picked the wrong one. I had to have a square stud, so that dropped choice to 2. One had round stud. Of the 2 only one said runs well. So thats the one I bought. It just did not work out.


Well, my offer still stands.. I believe I have a chassis in my parts drawer for it...In fact I have 2 complete chassis missing the wheels...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Come up with a good price plus shipping for a chassis with wheels, LOL. Don't need
a motor or smoke unit. Has to have square stud on center drivers. Just frame and
quartered wheels. I have all the other parts.

Need the gear on rear axle. You knew that.

If your frames already have motor and smoke units on them, also give me a price.
You know I don't care if smoke unit smokes.
You may want to keep motor and smoke unit or you may have enough of them.
If you can give me a choice. LOL, just so I can make wrong choice. Used to that.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Come up with a good price plus shipping for a chassis with wheels, LOL. Don't need
> a motor or smoke unit. Has to have square stud on center drivers. Just frame and
> quartered wheels. I have all the other parts.
> 
> ...


Tell you what, we'll just switch out chassis, yours for mine.. I'll make sure the quartering is spot on.. I can use your chassis for any parts, also I can use the wheels. etc, that I'll use to put on the new chassis I'll be sending you...Deal?? If so, I'll work on it in the next hour or so, and have it ready for shipping tomorrow.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Let it be known the face of my wheels were polished also. The black is gone, If you take
the wheels apart you can paint the wheels. Are we swappng motor and smoke units or just leave them on chassis. There is no rush on this. Or should I keep my motor and smoke unit. You decide. We will have to PM each other with our names and addresses. LOL, I know your first name and maybe your last name. After you ship let me know the cost and I will mail you a money order for it. This is very nice of you. You are always a big help to me. Ship the cheapest way, cause I am cheap. LOL. Thanks Guru.
Don't forget I need square stud in center wheel. Also let me know what we are doing wth female plug, motor, smoke unit. They wll wegh less if we each keep our own motor and smoke unit, but you decide.

Really, NO RUSH.

My chassis is very clean. Hell, it is polished. Bushings seem very tight, axles have no looseness, no wobble. Wheels roll great.
You will not have to clean my chassis. One of my whitewalls is cracked.

Remember I will buy your chassis. then only one shipping cost. I can buy just frame and wheels. Let me know. Either way I will
pay any shipping cost you incur.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Let it be known the face of my wheels were polished also. The black is gone, If you take
> the wheels apart you can paint the wheels. Are we swappng motor and smoke units or just leave them on chassis. There is no rush on this. Or should I keep my motor and smoke unit. You decide. We will have to PM each other with our names and addresses. LOL, I know your first name and maybe your last name. After you ship let me know the cost and I will mail you a money order for it. This is very nice of you. You are always a big help to me. Ship the cheapest way, cause I am cheap. LOL. Thanks Guru.
> Don't forget I need square stud in center wheel. Also let me know what we are doing wth female plug, motor, smoke unit. They wll wegh less if we each keep our own motor and smoke unit, but you decide.
> 
> ...


Al, just send the chassis and wheels, nothing else.. I'll send you the same thing...Loren..PS this is a SIB chassis, correct????


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Al, I'll send this out to you, no charge buddy.. I'm passing on a good deed, as I was subject to a very generous offer and deed from a fellow member here....enjoy, I sent you a PM..Loren


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Got your PM and have responded. You Da Man.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

When I get this 312 running I am going to buy some things from Portlines. 
A wheel puller
A "whack with a hammer" tool, I have a tender that front truck fell off. Seller forgot to tell me it was loose.
I have 2 or 3 metal hand rails missing from the 312 so will order them. They are cheap.

Need an order to Jeff Kane also. Some rivets and bushings, some metal spacers for side rods. Brushes and sprngs. And some more screws.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

flyernut, I will send my end of deal Monday. Too much to do fri and sat to do sooner.
Hope that is ok.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Stuff for my truck is coming along. Exhaust kit, and bed topper kit are in garage.
All that is left is to get spray in bed liner. Everything else is bought and paid for.
Install the stuff and I am done with truck. The only other thing I might get is a cold air
intake. Suppose to help. Less restrictive, cooler air to engine.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Stuff for my truck is coming along. Exhaust kit, and bed topper kit are in garage.
> All that is left is to get spray in bed liner. Everything else is bought and paid for.
> Install the stuff and I am done with truck. The only other thing I might get is a cold air
> intake. Suppose to help. Less restrictive, cooler air to engine.


My son has a K&N cold air intake on his Silverado. I hope you like the sound of a old 4-barrel kicking in,lol!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

If you remember, we used to take air filter element out of the air cleaner.
You could hear the air being sucked into engine.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Got my roll pin set for setting rivets in the mail. It was like$9.00 or $10.00
with free shipping off ebay. These can be used for many different things. It actually came yesterday but I did not go down to mail
box till this morning. Saw something I did not want to. A very
big copperhead snake that had been run over in my driveway. I hate snakes. I have lived in this house for 45 years and this is first
copperhead I have seen in the yard. I have watched for them all those years. If you see one there is more. My son was over last night and I think he run over it. Good job son!!! I have snakes here. Mainly garter and black snakes. Black snakes will eat copperheads. They missed one.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

Damn! That is unnerving. 

Which rivets on AF are these generally used to set?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

shaker281 said:


> Damn! That is unnerving.
> 
> Which rivets on AF are these generally used to set?


The wack it with a hammer model generally will do all rivets...except... the tiny small one that connects the draw-bar to the front tender truck.. That's where the small roll pin punch comes into play.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Got my chassis from flyernut Monday. Very nice of him to swap a chassis with issues for
for a ready to go chassis. We did not swap motors so I moved my motor to frame flyernut sent this morning and ran it. Runs great. I am getting excited for my 312 to run. It has been idle since 1955. In storage. Saw something for first time. My motor has slotted brushes, but it is not a slotted brush motor. Runs fine though. I will change them out soon. Armature face needs attention, it is very black. But like I said it runs good.
Big thanks to flyernut for the help.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Got my chassis from flyernut Monday. Very nice of him to swap a chassis with issues for
> for a ready to go chassis. We did not swap motors so I moved my motor to frame flyernut sent this morning and ran it. Runs great. I am getting excited for my 312 to run. It has been idle since 1955. In storage. Saw something for first time. My motor has slotted brushes, but it is not a slotted brush motor. Runs fine though. I will change them out soon. Armature face needs attention, it is very black. But like I said it runs good.
> Big thanks to flyernut for the help.


Good news... As an after-thought, you should have sent the armature also for a free, refacing job,lol!..Yep, get the shouldered brushes and new springs.. If I would have known all that I could have supplied everything for just a kiss and a hug!!....EEEEEEWWWWWW!!!...lol...:laugh:


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## hjstr6 (Jul 12, 2019)

What does K5 stand for?


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

The "K" was a letter assigned to the Pacific class locomotives on the Pennsylvania Railroad. This link explains the system that was used. Interesting that Gilbert designed their engine based on only 2 experimental engines vs. the more popular K4's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Railroad_locomotive_classification


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## hjstr6 (Jul 12, 2019)

Thank you very much for that.I thought K5 had something to do with the size of the Gilbert motor. I recently bought a 312 prr K5 on eBay I was wondering whether it had a large motor.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

No large motors in 312's or any other link coupler engine.


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## hjstr6 (Jul 12, 2019)

Thank you. Learning as I go. Love my American flyer trains!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

cramden has a large motor K5 but I forget the cab number. Maybe 316. Maybe.
They bring big bucks.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

hjstr6, how you doing with posting pics?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Many 316's and all 21115's have large motors. None are cheap. The 5 digits in Ex+ condition with the OB will be at $1,000.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Got my chassis from flyernut Monday. Very nice of him to swap a chassis with issues for
> for a ready to go chassis. We did not swap motors so I moved my motor to frame flyernut sent this morning and ran it. Runs great. I am getting excited for my 312 to run. It has been idle since 1955. In storage. Saw something for first time. My motor has slotted brushes, but it is not a slotted brush motor. Runs fine though. I will change them out soon. Armature face needs attention, it is very black. But like I said it runs good.
> Big thanks to flyernut for the help.


I got the chassis yesterday buddy, why would someone do that????. The wheels were repaired, poorly, at one time, and the one wheel in the front had the axle hole way to large.. That chassis would never had worked for you, it was junk!!. I'll salvage what I can...Loren


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

My large motor K5 is a 313. I have a 316 K5 from the K5345W "Trailblazer" passenger set, it has the small motor.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I left out the 313. They were made in 1955, 56 & 57 so most should be large motor. The 316's were 1953 & 54.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

The 313 that I have ran on the layout is a small motor so it must be a 1955 as listed in Greenberg's. Now I will have check the other 2 when I check them over for running since I don't know. When I bought the other 2, I didn't know there was a big or small motor in those. I only knew about the 326 and the 336 having two different size motors. I just bought 'em because they were cheap at two different garage sales.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I think I have 20 steamers and only one is a large motor. My 336. 

Flyernut, I am sorry the chassis is junk. I tried to describe it the best I could.
It is clean. I owe you.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I think I have 20 steamers and only one is a large motor. My 336.
> 
> Flyernut, I am sorry the chassis is junk. I tried to describe it the best I could.
> It is clean. I owe you.


No worries Al.. If I need it in a pinch, I can degrease the entire unit and paint it black, just like the wheels.. You don't owe me nuttin!:smilie_daumenpos:


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