# AF 695 Reverse Loop Relay Wiring



## AmFlyerMike (Apr 6, 2013)

At long last, I have been able to obtain a second one of these devices to build a reverse crossover in the middle of my layout. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get the wiring right. Have any of you been able to get two 695's to work in this fashion? The Gilbert instructions are a bit vague. Mine is similar to the crossover at the bottom.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/new-layout-af-wye-into-a-reverse-loop-need-thoughts-on-wiring

If I did this right and included a diagram of my layout, you can see the Reverse Loop crossover in the middle. Any suggestions for how it should be wired up?

Thanks!
Mike


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## Sagas (Dec 13, 2013)

Below are the instructions I have for the relay which might vary from yours. Looking at bottom figure that setup might apply in your situation. J.B.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I was shocked to see how expensive a AF 698 is being advertised on eBay. Can anyone suggest a functional replacement?


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## Mikeh49 (Sep 20, 2015)

The 698 looks like a standard DPDT slide switch in an AF style "box".

https://www.rishelam.com/control-boxes/136-dpdt-switch.html

If you want the AF appearance, perhaps you could hack a button box from some other accessory and install a dpdt switch, maybe a toggle switch in the round hole.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

It seems like two different approaches to reverse loop operation are being intermixed here. A 695 reverse loop relay and a 698 DPDT switch. One which would enable automated operation (695) and the other a manual method (698). 

Following the link provided in the OP, then leads to a third, more modern solution, unless I am reading this all wrong. That would be the AmFlyer suggestion to utilize PSX-AR-AC. If I am reading this all wrong, never mind.

Also, this looks helpful for the original question - https://baltimoreamericanflyerclub.org/wp-content/uploads/AF-Reverse-Loop-Part-1-by-Carl-Kellenbenz.pdf

To me, what makes the 695 units neat, is the way they are packaged. And that they are vintage.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

First before you do anything else go to the Portlines site and read Repair Clinic #44. This has very clear wiring diagrams and detailed explanations for several automatic ways to control 2 rail AC layouts with reverse loops. It is not necessary to spend the money to buy an original 695.
I have 4 reverse loops on my layout and each is controlled by an ASX-AR-AC.There is a key difference with this method, that difference is the ASX flips the polarity of the reverse loop segment of track where the 695 flips the polarity of "the rest of the layout." The ASX is the better approach for layouts with complex track plans and multiple reverse loops. Also, they are designed to work with constant track power such as the Legacy or FlyerChief system. I cannot vouch for their performance on a layout using conventional transformer control of train speed.
For the uncomplicated track plan AmFlyerMike has I recommend the relay setup in Clinic #44. Have fun!


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I was shocked to see how expensive a AF 698 is being advertised on eBay. Can anyone suggest a functional replacement?


Fred, they are 2 different #s. The 695 is an automatic reverse unit that changes the polarity when the switch changes position with the switch controller. The 698 is a manual switch set up that the operator has to control when the train enters the reverse section. Both are not common and can be pricey complete in the box. Here are pics. of both, scroll down the page to view them.https://thegilbertgallery.org/Infrastructure Gallery/infrastructure_Track_Accessories.html As others have posted an Atlas 200 is a cheaper alternative.






Courtesy of Carl Tuveson's site. http://www.tuveson.com/


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

This setup from Carl's website changes the polarity of the reverse loop while the engine is running in it. This requires a good fast throw relay if you are operating Legacy engines. I recommend this setup for a single reverse loop. It is easy and inexpensive. 
I recommend no action car 712 or 713 clip on rails be used in the reverse loop. When the reverse loop relay changes which rail is supplied from the Base Post the action car will not work.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Agree, I would also go with new technology if I was running modern engines. I don't think reverse loops work well with smaller layouts, and yes, action cars and such inside reverse loops aren't a good idea.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

There are 2 curves and a 1/3 straight between the two turnouts controlling the reverse loop. Those two turnouts must be controlled from a single turnout control box lever. Both are then either straight or diverging at the same time. The red and green wires feeding these two turnouts control the 200 Snap Relay. Two fiber pins are needed in the diverging rails of each turnout to isolate those 2 and 1/3 sections of reverse loop trackage.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

In the O.P.s diagram I agree, one control lever wired to throw both turnouts. I've used one controller to wire 4 turnouts when they are used on a double loop layout with 2 crossovers. Each side on the controller will align both turnouts on a given side of the loops. Just seems easier to me to use 2 levers than using 4 levers. when both bulbs are the same color on the controller there is no mishaps.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Thanks for the responses. I think that I will put a dpdt toggle switch in a AF button unit and just use it manually.


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## AmFlyerMike (Apr 6, 2013)

Gents,
Thanks very much for your replies! I have the 695 rather than the 698 DPDT. And in theory that would make this process easier... It has not been. 

I've tried to use one controller for both switches simultaneously, but I have not gotten the wiring right for that. How do I get one switch to open at the same time the other switch closes? How do I change the wiring to the second switch?

And then there is the issue of the wiring for the second 695. Even with my multimeter I have not figured out how to get the power right for the crossover (much less get the polarity to reverse).

Appreciate everyone's insight.
Mike


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Maybe I'm not understanding something here. The 2 turnouts that have to both be set to the diverging route or red are the 2 that connect the "S" curve and the half straight in the center of the track plan. Is this the 2 you're referencing? If one is set straight and the other to the diverging track, the reverse loop isn't complete. To make both turnouts switch at the same time, connect 1 side of the controller to the 1st turnout and then run wires to the other turnout from the 1st. The rainbow wire would be the easiest to use so the colors can match the controller wires and the turnout posts. The other lever on the controller with the wires aren't used unless you want to use it for 1 of the spur tracks .


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Exactly as Cramden says. If you continue to have a problem post a sketch of your wiring connections so we can diagnose it. I am also not sure why you have two 695's for one reverse loop.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Just another thought, the 695 was designed for a single reverse loop turnout, so I'm not sure using 2 695's will work with what you're trying to do. It would seem to me 2 of them hooked up will fight each other switching polarity to that section when the turnouts are switched. Tom's idea might be a better solution. Make sure the turnouts are set to 2 train operation. You might have to install more fiber pins than are shown in the diagrams.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Sorry guys, I must be brain dead today. This will not work by paralleling the turnout controls for the two turnouts discussed. The easiest way to wire this is with an ASC-AR-AC because it will flip the rail connections of the reverse loop both on entrance and on exit as required and will work regardless of direction of travel. The reverse loop can be made to work with the relays but because the Right Hand half of the inner oval does double duty as both a reverse loop and as a normal running, not reverse loop track this is more complex to wire and control.


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## AmFlyerMike (Apr 6, 2013)

Tom & Cramden,
Thanks for wrestling through this with me. I keep coming across the same problem. According to the Gilbert instructions, this crossover should be possible -- and they say to use one 695 per switch. 

But then the wiring doesn't seem to be right and I end up with either no power or a short. In theory, having the open switch swap simultaneously "should" allow for the polarity to be reversed since that is what the 695 is supposed to do. But so far it has been a bust.

Wish I had the space for just a regular reverse loop...
Thanks!
Mike


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## AmFlyerMike (Apr 6, 2013)

Here's what it looks like from above the south entrance.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

There should be a way for it to work but you have answered one of your own questions. That's such a short isolated section and more importantly, you can only reverse the train one time unless you back up the train. IMO it doesn't seem worth the headache without another reverse loop to change the direction back. Let us know if you have any progress.


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## AmFlyerMike (Apr 6, 2013)

Cramden, sadly, I think you may be right. I'm ok doing the back up since it is in the yard area. But I've been waiting too long to get the rest of the table set up as I fiddle around with this. I'll try a couple more arrangements of wires, but it is not worth much more effort.

I'm limited to my 5x10 table and I want to have the sidings to store other engines and rolling stock. Throw in some accessories, and the space needed for a double reverse loop seems a pipe dream for now. Perhaps when I retire and don't have to move every 3 years I can get more tables....

Thanks to all for the suggestions.
Mike


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mike, your layout is more complex than the Gilbert example. I missed the obvious in my first posts. The ASX-AR-AC will make this work for around $50, as long as there is over 7V when the engines are running it should actuate. Using relays with your track plan is a lot of work because you will need sensors feeding a logic circuit with train direction, turnout position and train location. 
As a test analyze your layout for the condition of the engine moving forward through the reverse loop section and onto the return loop, then backing up and going back through the turnout onto the main loop. The track polarity was already reversed and no turnout needs to be thrown for the backup action, so there is now a dead short at the fiber pin location. The ASX-AR-AC handles this automatically.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Here is the wiring for the ASX-AR-AC in the layout. It is really simple. The track section shown needs both rails to be isolated at both ends of the track.


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