# So I've got to ask but go easy....still learning.



## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Got the bed down; the track laid and the ballast down. Tested track before all of this. Glued everything and now we have sections that won't work. I did find two freaking couplers (two different sections) that didn't join and one rail is therefor not connected (or flush). 

1) Do I need to pull up the sections (they actually be in the tunnel), and actually join them

OR

2) Can I sand them almost flush and then solder the joint?

Thanks all.

Wes


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I'd do it right and join them and then solder the joint. What I did with all my track. I would not try to solder without a jliner there but maybe you can get it to work . . . maybe not, and if so, for how long?


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

The best thing you can do is tear it apart and get it done right. Yes it’s a pain but better off making it correct then having a derail point somewhere with limited access


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Start paying more attention to detail. Fix this right or you will have nothing but future frustration running your trains. Trackwork should be impeccable above all else or you will pay for it down the road.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

As you can see from the three previous answers, there are no shortcuts with trackwork.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can fix poor continuity for rail joiners by soldering a jumper across the ends, but if you didn't get the joiner on both sections and the tracks are misaligned, that's a bigger problem.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Solder probably won't hold on a butt joint, it will eventually crack and just give you grief, best to get the joiner on right then solder for conductivity, especially in a tunnel. Although it might add an air of mystery to the running (It will go in but will it come out!)


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Without good track work, trains, real and models, are relegated to useless….


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I can add no more to this discussion...most of your layout heartaches can be traced back to poor track.

Spray the offending section of track with warm water to reactivate the glue in the ballast, then carefully pull it up. When relaying it, clean the track thoroughly...don't try to salvage any ballast...then carefully relay it.

Soldering track joints is not illegal.

Neither is running a buss wire underneath with jumpers every 3-4 feet.

Time invested here will pay off big time in the future.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

shaygetz said:


> I can add no more to this discussion...most of your layout heartaches can be traced back to poor track.


BUT...BUT... You just did!  All excellent points I might add.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> BUT...BUT... You just did!  All excellent points I might add.


Busted...sigh...


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Lemonhawk said:


> Solder probably won't hold on a butt joint, it will eventually crack and just give you grief, best to get the joiner on right then solder for conductivity, especially in a tunnel. Although it might add an air of mystery to the running (It will go in but will it come out!)


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Thanks for the replies. While I'm taking all of this as constructive, I do have to defend myself in that I have not rushed my track work but obviously did miss those sections. The good thing is that I didn't ballast those parts in the tunnel (will never be seen except for maintenance so I don't have to worry about that. I will definitely pull it using the warm water and re-lay it and be sure that the joiners are correct (still pisses me off I missed them), but I AM confused on the soldering part. Am I supposed to solder all of the joints regardless? And I sure do not understand about bussing them.

Again, I am brand new to this so I'm learning as I go even though I research as much as I can.

For reference this is an n-scale on Bachmann EZ track. About 26' give or take.

Thanks again,

Wes


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

You don't have to solder every joint as it gives you some flex for natural expansion and contraction. One of the drawbacks of sectional track is that there are so many joints. On my N scale layout, I had to replace two curves with flex track...on bridge piers at that...that took ten sections of track out. Never regretted the work, a favored loco that derailed often on those curves never has since. I just thought that it was too big (a 4-8-4 Northern) for the radius. Even a "pro" like me can get lazy, then hafta go back and do it right the second time. 🥴


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bluwtr said:


> Thanks for the replies. While I'm taking all of this as constructive, I do have to defend myself in that I have not rushed my track work but obviously did miss those sections. The good thing is that I didn't ballast those parts in the tunnel (will never be seen except for maintenance so I don't have to worry about that. I will definitely pull it using the warm water and re-lay it and be sure that the joiners are correct (still pisses me off I missed them), but I AM confused on the soldering part. Am I supposed to solder all of the joints regardless? And I sure do not understand about bussing them.
> 
> Again, I am brand new to this so I'm learning as I go even though I research as much as I can.
> 
> ...


Not rushed, as such, but what my colleagues are trying to say is that as you laid track, you did not take the time to ensure every joint was properly joined and level. 10 seconds invested in checking each ine as you go saves hours of work later (as you are about to discover).

Speaking of semantics, I don't understand the whole fascination with a buss either. Kissing (buss is an archaic word meaning "to kiss") and model railroading are best kept separate.

A BUS, on the other hand, is a wire (anything, really) that moves things from one place to another. In this context, we're talking about a pair of wires under the layout, which will conduct electricity far better than your track can (you can use pretty big wires). This is connected to your power pack or command station. Then you can run smaller gauge (AWG 18 to 22) feeders up to your tracks at intervals. I like to do 8-10 feet apart, your mileage may vary. Every section of track that does not have soldered joiners should have a pair of feeders.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Bluwtr said:


> Thanks for the replies. While I'm taking all of this as constructive, I do have to defend myself in that I have not rushed my track work but obviously did miss those sections. The good thing is that I didn't ballast those parts in the tunnel (will never be seen except for maintenance so I don't have to worry about that. I will definitely pull it using the warm water and re-lay it and be sure that the joiners are correct (still pisses me off I missed them), but I AM confused on the soldering part. Am I supposed to solder all of the joints regardless? And I sure do not understand about bussing them.
> 
> Again, I am brand new to this so I'm learning as I go even though I research as much as I can.
> 
> ...


Wes;

I'm not trying to "pick on you" I just want to pass something along for future reference. In your original post, you mentioned, "two freaking couplers." As you have probably figured out from all the replies, That's not what your two problem causers are called. "Couplers" are those fist-shaped things that hold two, or more, railroad cars to each other. The little metal trough-shaped gadgets that join the ends of two rails together are called, logically enough, but with no attempt at imagination, "rail joiners." 
No harm done whatever. The long time members are pretty good at guessing what you, or a host of other questioners, mean from the context of their question, even If they don't use the technically correct term. New, and sometimes not-so-new model railroaders may come across some terms on the forum, that they are not familiar with. To help with that, I wrote a sort of "dictionary" of model railroad terms in the file below. If you see a word you don't know here, you can quickly look it up with a printout of this file. Entirely your option, and no criticism intended. 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Lol, you guys ARE right about missing the two joiners (thanks for the clarification 🙂), dang-it, though I would have sworn that I slid my finger around searching for just that issue. Obviously I missed them so I'll be repairing that. Oh well.

So, when IS soldering usually done on track?

Also, I kind of assumed that running a bus line was as mentioned, but how do you attach it to the track? I assume with flex track or and other non based track,, that there are points of attachment. Now, of course I've only worked with this EZ so that's my only reference and while the ease is nice, I'll def go with Kato or similar next time.

Thanks again all. I appreciate the time to answer my newbie questions and help steer me right.

Wes


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

When I ran my bus line on my HO track, I just connected to the rail joiners. You don't need anything fancy. That's a little more difficult with ez track or unitrack since it's a bit tighter. 

Personally, I like unitrack. Much more reliable than ez track and looks better. It also makes very tight and reliable connections. I have no bus line and only 1 connection to the controller over about 90ft of track with no issues. In fact, I'm debating pulling up my HO and redoing it with unitrack.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Bluwtr said:


> Also, I kind of assumed that running a bus line was as mentioned, but how do you attach it to the track? I assume with flex track or and other non based track,, that there are points of attachment. Now, of course I've only worked with this EZ so that's my only reference and while the ease is nice, I'll def go with Kato or similar next time.


The easiest way I have read about for other than Kato Unitrack is to solder the wire to the joiner. I have read a lot of tips on exactly how to do this, with many of them aimed at preventing the wire from breaking because of the bends. I have never done this, so I cannot tell you more about it but I am sure others with more experience than me will tell you.

I have only recently started in the hobby and I got lucky with a good local hobby shop. They recommended (and I actually listened) Kato Unitrack as the easiest way to start. Kato sells special joiners for their track that have the wires pre-soldered into the joiner. That is what I used. The joiners come with about 18 inches of wire and a special plug to fit Kato power packs. I cut the ends off and then connected the wires to my bus. My layout is basically loops on a 4x8 sheet of plywood, so I put one feeder on each loop about the middle of each side run. That worked for me to keep good power flowing all the way around the track.


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## Xrperry (Aug 10, 2021)

Bluwtr said:


> Lol, you guys ARE right about missing the two joiners (thanks for the clarification 🙂), dang-it, though I would have sworn that I slid my finger around searching for just that issue. Obviously I missed them so I'll be repairing that. Oh well.
> 
> So, when IS soldering usually done on track?
> 
> ...


Don’t feel bad, I have used all sorts of words, none which I can use here, and I am a newbie too


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

We've all been there, I just learned my lessons as a teenager using brass flex track with fiber ties when turnouts came as kits...🤓👍


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Bluwtr said:


> Lol, you guys ARE right about missing the two joiners (thanks for the clarification 🙂), dang-it, though I would have sworn that I slid my finger around searching for just that issue. Obviously I missed them so I'll be repairing that. Oh well.
> 
> So, when IS soldering usually done on track?
> 
> ...


I’ll attach how I ran some of the wiring on my layout. I’m guessing since you’re running ez track that is probably why you don’t have a bus underneath your layout. You have the plastic connector that tied onto a “crossing” would be my guess. My bus wiring starts at a set of cheap bus bars that I mounted to my bench work and I’ve added different “circuits” to my layout in the event that I want to kill a section of track. I use drop feeders from a main wire for both the positive and negative rail and this goes around my entire layout. It would be easier to show and explain if you were at my actual layout but you can probably get the idea with pictures. In these pictures you can see my bus bars a a section with drop feeders. This was taken before wiring was actually completed though so it’s not a complete overwhelming mess to comprehend


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

"So when IS soldering usually done on the track?"

Well, that depends, but ideally: when its going to be a permanent installation and you want it to have good electrical and physical connectivity and give no hassles in the future.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

All of my track is soldered. Even the narrow gauge rail. Turnouts included, all three legs. I've never had continuity problems. The layout is in a controlled environment so expansion and contraction is not an issue.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I used lots of drops and occasional soldering, I really don't want to revisit this after I start covering the track with ballast!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bluwtr said:


> Lol, you guys ARE right about missing the two joiners (thanks for the clarification 🙂), dang-it, though I would have sworn that I slid my finger around searching for just that issue. Obviously I missed them so I'll be repairing that. Oh well.
> 
> So, when IS soldering usually done on track?
> 
> ...


As others have stated, you solder joints when you need to for good connectivity. 

Your outlook on wiring js colored by your limited experience with EZ track. Basically, if you wanted to design a layout to fail electrically, you couldn't do much better than Bachmann did: one single plug in point , no matter how big the layout is. 

That plug would function as ONE pair of feeders connecting your track to your bus. You would want others to ensure the best electrical performance. You COULD do this by installing other rerailer/feeder track pieces connecting the feeder wires to the bus rather than the power pack, but that's a lot of bother. Just use individual wires soldered to the joiners, the bottom of the rails, or the outside of the rails.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

+


Bluwtr said:


> Lol, you guys ARE right about missing the two joiners (thanks for the clarification 🙂), dang-it, though I would have sworn that I slid my finger around searching for just that issue. Obviously I missed them so I'll be repairing that. Oh well.
> 
> So, when IS soldering usually done on track?
> 
> ...


Bluwtr;

I doubt if there is a person on this forum who has not mis-connected a rail joiner at some time. I know I have. So don't sweat it.
As for when is soldering done on track that varies from those who solder every rail joiner on their layout, to people using roadbed track, like Bachmann EZ-Track, or Kato Unitrack. They typically don't solder their track at all, since the joints are good enough electrical connectors, and excellent mechanical connectors.
Whether or not you even need bus wires depends on the amount of track on your layout. A small 4' x 8' layout will work fine with only one, or at most two, pairs of power feeder wires. If you have an oval of track, one pair of feeders, on either side of the oval, is plenty. In fact many use only one set of feeders.

Conversely, if you have a large basement-filling layout, you're likely going to need bus wires.
The metal rails of our model track conduct electricity pretty well. Unsoldered rail joiners may start out as decent electrical connections, but over time, dirt and oxidization will turn them into insulators, often causing "dead spots" along the track. Neither rails, or rail joiners, are as excellent, low resistance, electrical conductors as heavy gauge copper wire. That's where bus wires come in. A long stretch of rails & joiners will have a certain amount of electrical resistance. Over the same length, a 14ga. piece of copper wire will have so little resistance, that it is negligible. Bus wires are connected up to the rails by smaller, (22-28ga.) feeder wires every 6-10 feet or so. The small feeder wires are soldered to the outside of the rails and also to the bus wires. That way there is an excellent, and very reliable, electrical connection throughout the length of the railroad. Bus wires really came to prominence with the advent of DCC. While some large, DC controlled, model railroads used bus wire years before DCC hit the market, They are perhaps more prominent on DCC layouts than DC ones. The reason is that the tiny digital signals of DCC are more prone to hiccups due to small variations in electrical contact than simple DC.

Bachmann EZ-Track is OK, but Bachmann EZ-Track " turnouts" (track switches) are not. In fact, they are the worst turnouts available. They have a bad reputation for derailments, and just not working. Sometimes right out of the box, and sometimes soon after being installed on a layout. Kato Unitrack turnouts are just the opposite, very reliable, high quality items. You said you were using Bachmann track. I suggest avoiding Bachmann turnouts. It is possible to adapt Kato, Peco, or Micro Engineering turnouts to mate with Bachmann track. The last two do not have plastic roadbed under them but you can shim them up with cork or foam roadbed to match the height of your EZ-Track.

Flex track does not have special provisions for attaching feeder wires. As mentioned, the wires are usually soldered on. Sectional, non-roadbed, track, like Atlas "Snap Track", does have special terminal track pieces, but again, just soldering the wires onto the rails is very common.

I'm including more files with more model railroad information. Read them, ignore them, or delete them, as you see fit. 😄

Traction Fan


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the help. I don't think I will need to solder anything after all that I've read and you have all suggested. 

We kind of put the cart before the horse in that the 13yo asked for a train set for Christmas. My wife found the Bachmann, and our not knowing any better we got it. It was close to crunch time so I wasn't able to research and so here we are.  Of course hind-site is 20/20 and had I know then what I know now, things would be a lot different and I'd have gone with Kato track.

Since our layout is only 26' long I don't think I'll need to bus it, but if I do, I'll be picking brains! As far as turnouts though, we do not have any and if I did I would SURELY not get the Bachmanns. I've heard nothing good about them so thanks again for reiterating that.

I plan on taking up the couple of sections this weekend and then re-laying them and making sure that I don't screw up a second time!

Thanks again for all of the guidance, suggestions and explanations.

Wes


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Bluwtr said:


> Thanks everyone for the help. I don't think I will need to solder anything after all that I've read and you have all suggested.
> 
> We kind of put the cart before the horse in that the 13yo asked for a train set for Christmas. My wife found the Bachmann, and our not knowing any better we got it. It was close to crunch time so I wasn't able to research and so here we are.  Of course hind-site is 20/20 and had I know then what I know now, things would be a lot different and I'd have gone with Kato track.
> 
> ...



Wes;

You, and your family, are not the first, and won't be the last, consumers to be suckered into buying your train as a "set" and thereby getting stuck with the manufacturer's choice of track. Since you are taking up some of your track this weekend, you might consider gradually replacing the Bachmann EZ-Track with flex track, or simply adding good, non-roadbed, turnouts & track for any further expansion of your track plan. As I said, they can be mounted on top of cork roadbed to match the height of your EZ-Track, if you wish.
Flex track is considerably less expensive than either Bachmann, or Kato, roadbed track, however you should factor in the cost of either cork, or foam, roadbed (sold separately) to make a fair price comparison. The combination of track and roadbed will still be less expensive.
Flex track has fewer rail joints to potentially cause derailment and electrical issues. (each piece is about 3' long) It can be used as straight track, or bent to any desired curvature. Therefore, you don't have to limit your track plan to the meager variety of curved pieces sold by Bachmann.
Flex track is the track type of choice for most model railroaders. If you do end up needing bus wires at some point, its very easy to solder feeders to the outside of flex track. 

Atlas is the most commonly available brand of flex, and it is decent quality. "Better" brands, (essentially only in terms of looks), are Micro Engineering, and Peco.
Micro Engineering track looks great, super-realistic, but it is stiff, and harder to form into a curve. The tiny spikes on M-E track help it look very much like real track, but can let the rail come up from the ties if the rails are pulled upward with any serious force, so it needs gentle handling when you install it.
Peco track is very strong and rugged, but it looks a bit odd since it is based on British prototype track, rather than American. (the Brits use heavy steel "chairs" or brackets to hold the rails down, not spikes)

Did you say your layout is twenty-six feet long? That's a pretty big layout.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

I will definitely go with a flex style track for any future addition. 

Yes, 26' . Here is approximately what the layout looks like via SCARM. There were a few changes but this is roughly the layout. Top left section is mountainous and tunneled. From thee the grades falls off until almost flat halfway past the lake. The 0% continues around until the long straight section and then begins to rise again. Our layout is just a throwback style of the last of the steam engines moving through small town anywhere USA.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

He actually wrote "..only 26' long". I feel bad for him.


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

Steve Rothstein said:


> The easiest way I have read about for other than Kato Unitrack is to solder the wire to the joiner. I have read a lot of tips on exactly how to do this, with many of them aimed at preventing the wire from breaking because of the bends. I have never done this, so I cannot tell you more about it but I am sure others with more experience than me will tell you.
> 
> I have only recently started in the hobby and I got lucky with a good local hobby shop. They recommended (and I actually listened) Kato Unitrack as the easiest way to start. Kato sells special joiners for their track that have the wires pre-soldered into the joiner. That is what I used. The joiners come with about 18 inches of wire and a special plug to fit Kato power packs. I cut the ends off and then connected the wires to my bus. My layout is basically loops on a 4x8 sheet of plywood, so I put one feeder on each loop about the middle of each side run. That worked for me to keep good power flowing all the way around the track.


Kato prewired joiners are use on my TT scale layout with Tilling bedding track. I still use the stock plug and use the Kato extension to wire to my MRC power packs with spade lugs. Tillig uses the Kato joiners in their bedding track system.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Gramps said:


> He actually wrote "..only 26' long". I feel bad for him.


*But, honey...do we reeeeeally need the guest bedroom?"


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)




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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I hope I'm not to late to this party, but you don't have to tear up your track to fix a missed joiner! This also works for replacing a section of track or a bad turnout. Use a fine tooth razor saw laid flat at a diagonal on the tie right behind the joiner THAT IS CONNECTED PROPERLY with the teeth pointed away from the joint in question and cut the molded in spike detail flush with the bottom of the rail on that tie. that should give you enough clearance to push the joiner back far enough with a small screwdriver to allow the other rail on the other side of the joint to drop down into place and be even. now carefully slide the joiner forward until the two rails are joined correctly. Solder the joiner to both rails to prevent it from moving back again. If you don't have a razor saw or don't trust yourself, you can use a flat chisel xacto blade working from both sides of the rail to slowly plane down a small space between the rail and the tie under the rail. be careful not to bend the rail out of gauge. I have a soldering alignment block for soldering rail joints while keeping them in alignment. Worth the 10 bucks or so the sell for. Got mine on ebay.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

All those rail joiners are the Achiile's heel of sectional track, especially Bachmann and Atlas. The brass oxidizes from exposure to the atmosphere until the electrical connection fails. You can't clean them (except with a squirt of electrical contact cleaner, but that's a band aid at best). Contrary to popular belief, the more often you run the layout the longer they will take to oxidize, the micro-sparks keep blowing off the oxidation.
I try to keep my rail joiners to as few as possible, especially in hidden sectionsby using flex track between turouts and soldering any joiners I must use. I don't solder in my turnouts but do solder a jumper wire across from the turnout to the next track unless using a plastic joiner. 
If I have to solder two pieces of flex track together I try to stagger the joints in the rails about 2 inches apart. That isn't a problem on curves as soldering two sections while still straight and then curving as one will automatically stagger the joints, but in a long straight I will deliberately clip one rail a couple inches short,but I don't cut the ties! I pull out the short piece of rail and save it for scenic details. I do the same with the opposite rail on the next track, except I remove the extra ties. Now I carefully work the extended end of the new track back in place under the empty spike heads on the remaining ties. I add a joiner to both rail ends and solder the two lengths together at the joiners. By taking the time to do it this way, the ties pretty much guarantee the track will stay in gauge across the joint. (but I do still check it with my NMRA track gauge to be sure, as I do with all my track as bending the flex track to a tight radius can sometime cause the rail to tip in and tighten the gauge). I add drops soldered to the rails to every section between turnouts or every 3' whichever is shorter. Always solder to the outside of the web! I like to use grey wire for my outside rail drops so they are less likely to be noticed against the ballast along the front of the layout.


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Gramps said:


> He actually wrote "..only 26' long". I feel bad for him.


LOL, is 26' pretty good? Dang, I see some layouts that look like they have over 100' or more of rail.


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## SDVike (Jun 11, 2018)

Bluwtr said:


> LOL, is 26' pretty good? Dang, I see some layouts that look like they have over 100' or more of rail.


I see the confusion. When we talk about the size of a layout, we usually reference the size of the baseboard or room. My baseboard is 11.5’ x 5’ The room is roughly 16’x11’. I probably have over 90’ of track but I wouldn’t call it a 90’ layout. I would call it 12x5 layout. A layout that was 26’ long would be big. 

Hope this helps. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I think some are confusind room size with mainline length. Of course it makes a difference what scale you are modelling in.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

oops SDVike beat me to it...


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

8' x 13' ! That's still an impressive size layout for a first go at it. What is the base made of? Is it an island in the middle of a room? What scale is it? HO I assume??? Some of the newer Bachmann locos and rolling stock isn't bad (I'm primarily talking N scale now, my modelling scale), it's mostly the track, especially the turnout that are the downfall. If you continue in the hobby you are very likely going to want some turnouts, just watching the train go around and around gets really old pretty quickly. Also if you are planning scenery, you'll find that unless your knuckles drag on the ground the maximum distance you can reach to work on the scenery, add track or re-rail the occasional derailment is about 30" in from an edge Without climbing on top the layout. If it's on legs, you can possibly leave open areas within the perimeter but that isn't the best plan since that requires some sort of openable section or ducking down and crawling under the layout to get there. It also eats up a lot of potential track routes and scenery space. We aren't trying to discourage you for what you have done, your track plan so far is much more interesting than the typical follow the edges of the board first layouts for example, just trying to offer advice as to what we old timers often had to discover the hard way. If you are perfectly happy with exactly what you have for the foreseeable future then that's great, go with it and have fun with it, it is YOUR railroad!


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Ahhhh! LOL!!! Ok. So, what I'm saying is we have 26' of track meaning mainline. The layout is on a 4x8 base. Man I WISH the layout was 26' long! That would ROCK!!! Would for sure need a much bigger space and MUCH deeper pockets.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

SDVike said:


> I see the confusion. When we talk about the size of a layout, we usually reference the size of the baseboard or room. My baseboard is 11.5’ x 5’ The room is roughly 16’x11’. I probably have over 90’ of track but I wouldn’t call it a 90’ layout. I would call it 12x5 layout. A layout that was 26’ long would be big.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> ...


SDVike;

The OP saying he had "a 26' long layout", (while meaning 26' of track length) is germane to the previous discussion regarding the need for bus wires, or not. Yes, it is a bit confusing though.
I thought he had a 26' long "train table" too. I wouldn't want to carry that upstairs, through doors, and around corners!  

Traction Fan 😄


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Bluwtr said:


> Ahhhh! LOL!!! Ok. So, what I'm saying is we have 26' of track meaning mainline. The layout is on a 4x8 base. Man I WISH the layout was 26' long! That would ROCK!!! Would for sure need a much bigger space and MUCH deeper pockets.


Bluwtr;

My old club layout had 25 N-scale miles of track. Room size 30' x 90'.

Traction Fan


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

My layout has 13 N scale miles of track in a 8x18' space.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I don't know if I have the Math right for converting N scale miles to feet, but I'm curious so correct me if I'm wrong. 
N scale is 1:160. A mile is 5,280 feet so an N scale mile would be about 33 feet long. At 25 scale miles that would be about 825 running feet and at 13 scale miles it would be about 429 running feet. Do I have that right?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Gramps said:


> I don't know if I have the Math right for converting N scale miles to feet, but I'm curious so correct me if I'm wrong.
> N scale is 1:160. A mile is 5,280 feet so an N scale mile would be about 33 feet long. At 25 scale miles that would be about 825 running feet and at 13 scale miles it would be about 429 running feet. Do I have that right?


Gramps;

Your math sounds right to me. The 25 scale miles on the club layout was round trip on a multi fold dog bone track layout, or the total length of the mainline track. If your interested in seeing it, the Belmont Shore model railroad club in San Pedro, CA. has a web site. Just google their name to find the site. It is quite a layout, filling one floor of an an old army barracks building.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

scenicsRme said:


> My layout has 13 N scale miles of track in a 8x18' space.


scenicsRme;

Whooh dude! that's a huge layout! 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Bluwtr;
> 
> My old club layout had 25 N-scale miles of track. Room size 30' x 90'.
> 
> Traction Fan


😲😲😲 that's freaking awesome!


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

I was kind of excited until I did the math, lol! I've got about a mile of track! Oh, well. Got to start somewhere!😁😁😁


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

traction fan said:


> Gramps;
> 
> Your math sounds right to me. The 25 scale miles on the club layout was round trip on a multi fold dog bone track layout, or the total length of the mainline track. If your interested in seeing it, the Belmont Shore model railroad club in San Pedro, CA. has a web site. Just google their name to find the site. It is quite a layout, filling one floor of an an old army barracks building.
> 
> Traction Fan 🙂


Thanks, I enjoyed the links.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Yes, you did your math right. I have a little over 500' of track on two levels. Here's an xtrakcad drawing of the top level. There is a helix under Franklin yard and Lobolly pines mine area:


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

And the lower level: (yellow area are open areas in lower framework for access to bottom of upper level and hidden track) Level is flat and not sceniced.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

That's very impressive.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Yes, it is. Do you have a larger diagram? It would be nice to make out the details.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Yes I do, but you could save it (right click on it) and open in a photo viewer or editing ap and enlarge it there.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Don't feel bad about missing a misaligned joiner. I too have missed them despite running my finger over every joint.


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## Traingeek (Jan 8, 2018)

Bluwtr said:


> Got the bed down; the track laid and the ballast down. Tested track before all of this. Glued everything and now we have sections that won't work. I did find two freaking couplers (two different sections) that didn't join and one rail is therefor not connected (or flush).
> 
> 1) Do I need to pull up the sections (they actually be in the tunnel), and actually join them
> 
> ...


I had the same problem. I didn't want to disturb the glued down track and ballast so I drilled holes through the deck board, along the outside of each rail, ran the jumper wires down through the holes and soldered jumper wires to each section of track on each side of the joint with not disturbing much of the ballast except where I soldered the jumper wires. I then joined the two jumpers for each rail. I hope this helps.


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## Bluwtr (Feb 28, 2021)

Thanks. I was able to release the sections of track using hot water as well as the ballast on only one of them. I was lucky in that the two misaligned sections were connected to each other by one more section. I lifted all three; removed the foam track bed; cleaned everything VERY well to remove any stray ballast and when it was all dry, I reinstalled. I ran out of time and have not tested yet but I'm confident all will be well this time (fingers crossed). If nothing else I know for SURE that the joiners and rail are properly connected. I was "lucky' in that I had only ballasted a portion of one section as the bad parts were in the tunnel. When I was laying the ballast I figured there was no reason to ballast what would never be seen as well as saving a little of material. It was easier than I had anticipated by using the hot water.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

If using sectional track in a hidden location (why would anyone not use flex track to eliminate as many joints as possible there?) I would recommend soldering all the joiners to the rails. The rails and joiners oxidize and lose mechanical connection after a while and is near impossible to trouble shoot.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

scenicsRme said:


> If using sectional track in a hidden location (why would anyone not use flex track to eliminate as many joints as possible there?) I would recommend soldering all the joiners to the rails. The rails and joiners oxidize and lose mechanical connection after a while and is near impossible to trouble shoot.


Kind of an old thread, but I've found that some modelers, especially those new to the hobby, are intimidated by flex track and don't want to use it, despite its obvious advantages over sectional track.


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