# Assistance Requested



## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

Hello to all first off. Thanks in advance to an replies. I do apologize if this makes it into the wrong thread. I just spent the couple of days removing all of my items off the current layout. My reasoning for this is that my benchwork was terrible and well in the beginning, I started small and just continuously added more and more. I still need to finish pulling the rest of the tracks and since I am thrifty I am scraping all the ballast that I can pull off of there and am trying to re-use it the best I can. For about the last week I have been trying to come up with my dream layout, which is why I have posted in this thread... I have layout (writers) block. I have a substantial space to use and track out the ying yang but just dont konw what to do with it now. My loco's are upset with me for putting them back in their boxes. HAHA. Does anyone have any ideas? Places to look for layouts?  I really need help on how to find my dream layout.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

5.7.....welcome to the forum! I have two suggestions to offer you. The first is to sit back and think about it for a while: what sort of environment do you want to model? For example, do you want to specialize in point-to-point, where you make deliveries, attach and detach cars, make up and break up trains, etc? Or do you want a layout that focuses more on just having several trains running around at one time? Once you realize what it is you like to do, you then have a handle on what you're trying to construct. There's no point in building a switchyard, for example, unless you want to use a switchyard. If you don't, use the space for something other than a parking lot for idle trains. Throw in some interesting topography and landscape it, instead.

Second....once you know what you want to create, invest in some software. I prefer Anyrail, but there's lots available. Use your pc to design your layout---it's a lot more pleasurable than jerking track apart and reconnecting it, trying to find a design that will actuall fit together.

Best of luck!


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## bradimous1 (Mar 3, 2010)

there are also plenty of layout design books out there... I personally am having to much fun designing my own to use a layout... but not everyone is the same. many people on here will tell you, "the only right way is the way you want to do it." as you can tell by reckers response, so many variables... he mentioned anyrail. i have tried anyrail, only tried right track, atlas' layout design software... while it is very limited, I have figured ways around it's limitations by custom drawing on it... not the most efficient, but a monkey could use it.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Anything that works is a good thing. *L* Brad's right: the right way is the way that pleases you. I like the software because I can never get the track-ends to measure out correctly without it for my turnouts. The software minimizes chopping track to fit. On the other hand, I forget you guys have all that flexible track to work with!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

5.7,

I'll certainly echo the comments above ... all well said ... your own thinking and planning will ultimately lead to a layout that makes YOU most happy.

Nonetheless, you might check out some predrawn layouts on various sites ... purely for some initial ideas. The site on this link has various layouts, grouped by gauge, setup size, etc. Hit the link, then scroll down to sub-menues ...

http://www.thortrains.net/


Good luck!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

First you have to define your space.
Your wallet or wife defines the financing.
Then list attributes you want in some order of preference. 
Go from there.
Most of my action is on the workbench.
My table is just a fancy test track.


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*Assistance rendered*

Thanks to all for the quick replies. This was helpfull. I am not too savi when it comes to software though. I wish I was. I tried the Atlas freeware and can never figure it our and I noticed that I was restricted in my bench making. Without explaining it fully I will leave it at it kicked my butt. I would love to learn again how it was done before computers. I did some measurements today, I came up with my sizes. The longest length is 40' and the widest point is 15'. The smallest constritction that the tracks will span between is 4' wide. IF you could imagine it to be shaped similar to a dogbone style, I am just trying to avoid it lookin glike a dog bone. I would like there to be multiple spurs for industries, etc. I do also want to model a large train parking lot as reckers said. So a yard will be a necessary evil. I dont want to do 2 different yards (one for freight and one for pass), only one with #4 and #6 turnouts for the yard of course separated by pass and freight. Not necessary for anymore than 2 rails for the pass yard. My hardest thing to come by and figure out is how to work the benchwork to fit walking space and access to all of the turnouts incase of derailments. I am not looking at the entirety of this being only plywood top but for the mains to be going up and down hills (not neccessarily mountains) but I am thinking an open grid format and using 1x4 wood to use for laying track on and developing my gradients, then giong in later on to make my hills once I know the track will lay fine. I am just stumped on how to run the most ammount of track without makeing a spaghetti bowl out of things. I did look at all of the reccomended sites for the track software. For me personnally they are asking too much for me to get a headache. I am trying to come up with ideas on how to run this system. My plan is to set blocks in the tracks and run it regular DC style. I am in the process of switching my trains with decoders and then probably within a year I will have my DCC system up and running. I hear it is good to keep the blocks in place in the tracks even when running DCC as it is easier to troubleshoot when an electrical problem occurs on portions of track. I think that I just talked myself in a circle. I am now off my soap box. All for now. Again, any pointers to re-fresh my old mind would be most beneficial.


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*Cont.*

A long story short. I am looking for 2 track mains. I would like to independantly run more than one train at a time. I also want a yard and spurs off the main, some being long and similar to their own point to point system that can run on its own. lots of stuff. I finfally have the room for this and its been a dream for a long time, so its time to fullfill that dream. Where I am lacking in track, I will buy more over time, the mains are the crucial point at this time. There of course is nothing but time, this will be costly, I wil have plenty of time to complete and there is absolutely not a rush at all for me to do this in a weekend. Though it would be nice over the next month or two to have some track laid out.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow! That's a HUGE layout you've got planned. Very ambitious. Do keep us posted on your plans/thinking. Best to tackle an initial "master plan", then delve into construction in modular sections / components ???

Good luck!

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Wrangler,
Two more suggestions. *L* First, software. If you go here: http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html you can dowload a free 50-piece-of-track Anyrail demo to try out. I'm a dolt, and I can use it. Essentially, you set it for HO, choose your track manufacturer, and just keep picking pieces off the menu and attaching them to the ones you already grabbed. You can also set layout dimensions in metric or english inches (American) to see how much space it takes up. Remember you can only attach the piece you are holding: if you have a three-piece section and you're not holding the correct end, it won't attach. 

Second: before computers, they used trial and error, paper templates, or plastic templates (same thing but more durable than paper). Take a 3-length straight section of track and trace it on a piece of styrene, then fine-tune it. By that, I mean add a center-line and an outer border that defines how much space your widest car requires as it extends over the track. Cut the template down to that width and the three-track length, and mark it for one-track length measurements. Do the same for 1/4 curves, half-curves, whatever you want. Keep in mind your longest car (passenger coach?) will require the greatest inside dimension on curves.


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

Again, thanks for the replies. I will try the Anyrail thing today. I have heard the suggestions from so many of you already that this is the direction to go. If reckers can use it, so can I. Kidding of course. I will try it out. I will post how it goes. When I finally get this to where I want it, I will post my layout picture and put it on this forum to get opinions for its effectiveness. Thanks again to everyone for their help.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

5.7wrangler said:


> Again, thanks for the replies. I will try the Anyrail thing today. I have heard the suggestions from so many of you already that this is the direction to go. If reckers can use it, so can I. Kidding of course. I will try it out. I will post how it goes. When I finally get this to where I want it, I will post my layout picture and put it on this forum to get opinions for its effectiveness. Thanks again to everyone for their help.


*grins* You may be kidding, but that's probably an accurate statement! I have no association with Anyrail except that it's a product I found to be very useful and user-friendly. Good luck, and let us see how you are progressing!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

5.7wrangler said:


> If reckers can use it, so can I.



Looks like we might have a winner in the create a new Model Train Forum Motto contest! I like it ... I like it !!!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

*ROTFLMAO!!!!* I agree. that could be on a sign over the Beginners Entrance!


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*excellent*

I am so glad that my dry humor could have led to such interesting web site chatter. Thanks everyone, my apologies Reckers that you were the blunt end of this one. I have started on the Alltrack download, at this point I am still in the freeware stages of it. I have figured out how to add the tracks and how ot make the layout itself longer and wider. I have not figured out how to make borders or make inclines yet. I am also looking up the safe incline percentage (over how many feet of track can it raise up to lets say 1 inch?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

5.7wrangler said:


> I am also looking up the safe incline percentage (over how many feet of track can it raise up to lets say 1 inch?


This question gets raised here a lot on the forum. No absolute right/wrong answer ... whatever pro/con works best for you in your situation: needs, space available, # of cars intended to pull, quality and heft of loco, etc.

That said, I'd offer fuzzy suggestions ...

1% grade (1" rise in 100" run") ... should be no problems. You'll need plenty of runway to achieve a crossover.

2% grade ... quite common and typical for HO

3% grade ... acceptable, with some tradeoffs

4% grade ... getting quite steep, pulling potential without slipage is limited.

(This from someone who intentionally build a small layout with 4% grade!)

TJ


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*Layout Dimensions*

These are the dimensions of the layout, pretty terrible representation. I will try to come up with a better idea to put this on the computer. The area represented is in a very large and open room. My upstairs to be exact. There is absolutely nothing but storage there now. The 2 foot wide portion is that way to allow passage to a bathroom. This still gives 5.5 foot walk path for anyone trying to get there too. I can give more or take more from that. I am thinking about a continuous loop that has 2 track mains, something that can keep going around and not have to worry about it, rolling hills will be incoorporated as well. I am figuring the location of a small yard prob located along the 2ft section about 4 or 5 tracks wide and #4 turnouts at both sides with 2 tracks being #6 turnouts for any pass trains or my 4-8-4's to roll through there with ease. I am trying to come up with ideas for how to route the two large sections and make it make sense, not look like a spaghetti bowl but be interesting at the same time. The area that I am modeling is the basic trip for Norfolk Western and Norfolk Southern coal trains to pick up coal at the mines (located on the left (west)) and transport through the Appalacians (the rolling hills) and end up at a coal power plant (section on right (east))... Any ideas would be most beneficial. I have purchased the alltrack and am dilligently working that angle, I will post that when I can get it to make sense. Thanks again. Cheers...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

5.7,

Did you mean to post a dimensioned sketch? Would be helpful, if you can.

By "alltrack" you mean "AnyRail", I suppose! (Though "AllTrack" works just fine as a name, too!)

Glad you jumped into the software ... I don't use it myself, but many members here have been quite happy with it.

TJ


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*Oops*

here is the attachment.... nope, nevermind. a word document with some lines on it is too big to load... cant do it...


Yes, Anyrail Whoops


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*wow, im no genius*

This was a very painfull process for me. Trying to figure out how to get something on here for you guys to see was like pulling teeth.... I think I got it though. Lets see


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*TJ,*

Thanks again, for the hints and reassurance on this thread and the other one that I posted. I do believe that this posted the crude form of my dimensions to work with... It does not have to be exactly that however that is my available work space (for now, untill I scam more out of the wifey, haha)


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

5.7,

Layout dims look great ... you have a huge space to work with. You're gonna have lots of fun planning this.

My only simple suggestion is to perhaps add a chamfer softening the turn between the back section and the right wing ... rather than a 90-deg inside corner, maybe use a radius or a 45-deg transition.

That 40' run has enormous potential ... I see LOTS of interested eyes peeking in on your progress in future posts and threads!

TJ


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*Thanks*

The plan is to do just what you mentioned, missed that 45 deg damper on the east, thanks.... quite observative. This is what I need to help me out. I would have been quite mad at myself getting into benchwork and missing that very important factor. I am so very open to suggestions and ideas at this point its not even funny. I will post the process as this goes along and keep everyone informed of its progress.


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> 5.7,
> 
> Layout dims ...
> 
> ...


I am not sure what this means though?


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

5.7wrangler said:


> I am not sure what this means though?


Dims = Dimensions


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

ah yes... hahaha thanks. that makes sense.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

After I had a run in with OOC, it didn't mean Out Of Coffee but out of curiosity. Dims is also Does It Make Sense. There is a library of acronyms.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Like snafu?:laugh:


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

ok, I have the layout of my design made up... I am not sure how to get it pictured on here as we are very restricted in attachment sizes. The layout is in Anyrail software. Once I get this up on here... Any pointers would be excellent... Thanks all


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Wrangler,

When you save your Anyrail file on Anyrail, do it as a .jpg file instead of their ending. That makes it a picture you can upload from your pc to this site.


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

i tried that... in the save as type in the bottom i typed in .jpg and it did not work unfortunately... i couldnt even re-name them from the desktop. i am def not a computer wizzard.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

If you're in a jam, you can always hit the "Print Screen" key on your keyboard when the layout is being displayed in AnyRail. This should copy the image to your computer's clipboard. From there, open a photo editor (or Paint, for that matter) and hit "Ctrl" and "V" at the same time to past the image (from the clipboard) into the photo editor (or Paint). Then, save as a jpg file.

A few sideways steps, but it should work in a jam.

TJ


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*upload attempt*

here it goes, closer ones to follow. the east to west span is 40feet, north to south is 15' 5"


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

5.7,

Wow ... it's a bit hard to see all of the detail in that jpg, but certainly enough to see that you've mapped out an incredibly exciting and ambitious layout plan. I like the network of yard sidings. Lots of action / activity possible there.

In addition to the sidings, you essentially have a nest of long loops with their ends folded over on the left and right sides. I see that you have a reverse turn-around section on the left loop end, but that you don't have one on the right loop end. Might you want to add one? You're call, obviously ... but as I see it (as quick glance), trains on the right are committed to make the full layout loop to get back to where they started.

What's the grey shaded area? I know you had mentioned rolling hills in your plans up above.

Overall, this is an excellent start, and you're already major steps ahead by taking the time to map out things on paper (or in the computer), first.

Good luck,

TJ


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

thanks for the reply, it is a little bit difficult to make out... i am going to zoom in a bit for you. there is one single main line on 22" rad and the interiors on a seperate network is all 18" rad with the y turn around, it has a seperate turn around on the eastern part of the railroad. the darkened areas are representing hills


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*figured out the jpg deal*

just increase the percentage on the screen to zoom in.... thanks for looking...


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## DavidH (Jan 20, 2009)

Don't use 'Save As' but 'Export As' instead to create a jpg. You can export as 'Picture' or 'TrainPlayer export file'. Obviously, choose 'Picture'.
The resolution (size) of the resulting picture depends on the view scale you've set.

David.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

5.7wrangler said:


> i tried that... in the save as type in the bottom i typed in .jpg and it did not work unfortunately... i couldnt even re-name them from the desktop. i am def not a computer wizzard.


Typing ".jpg" doesn't work. I use "save as"from the "file" menu and choose ".jpg" from a pull down selection. It works for me when I use paint.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

pAgreed. Wrangler, go to "File" and then drop to "Export As" BUT DO NOT CLICK IT. It will give you two options---the first is to save as a .jpg That is what you click.


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

thanks guys... it is listed on this post as number 36 post


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice. I like the round house setup, the figure-8-style criss-cross midway, and especially the "3-point diamond" dead-end turnaround on the left. I've (naively) never seen a turn around like that before. Clever.

TJ


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

thanks a lot TJ. does it make sense and flow though?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

5.7,

I think so, though your layout is much, much more ambitious that anything I've tackled ... so who am I to comment???

That said, I'm wondering if you might want to have a turnaround loop on the right half of the layout somewhere. You already have one on the left. That way, you could run trains independently in each half if ever needed. As it is now (I think ???), trains running around the right side are forced (with the exception of the turntable) to make the full loop through the back stretch and the left side to get back to where they started on the right.

Just a thought.

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Man, that's a nice layout! You HO guys have all the great toys! That's the only drawback to S scale....you need a warehouse to do something that complex.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

lol... TJ, Reckers... thanks so very much for the excellent encouragement. please i hope that no one gets me wrong on this. this will take me an eon to accomplish and plenty of more tracks to acquire. i have a really good start on the tracks that i already have. i will split the 2 loops and do seperate pictures on the large radius loops, the 18" radius loop and the yard so that it is easier to make out what each doing and how it interacts with the other tracks.


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## 5.7wrangler (May 10, 2010)

*Loops*

the main line and the 18deg loops


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Wrangler, take your time on it. It's easy to tell yourself you have to work on it 'cause you told everyone you were doing one and so on...truth is, no one is pushing you. It's a hobby: that means you only work on it to relax, and when you feel like it. When it stops being fun, park the tools, grab a beer and watch something on tv with cheerleaders in it!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey ... THAT's what we need here on the MTF ... CHEERLEADERS! ...

Gimme an "R" ... Gimme an "E" ... Gimme a "C" ... Gimme a "K" ... Gimme a "ERS" ...

"Gooooo RECKERS!"

(Uhhh ... sounds much better when sung with short short skirts and lots of cleavage!)

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yup ... that's MUCH better ...

(B&M's gonna nix me on this, for sure!)

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Gotta hand it to you, TJ: you're right. It's a lot more interesting when SHE leads the cheers!


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