# DC loco as static on DCC layout?



## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Hi folks. I am picking up a locomotive tonight, and it is DCC ready. Of course im waiting for the decoder to come in. What im wondering, is if, putting it(DC only at the moment) on the track as basically static(I am not going to run it at all, it's just going to sit), will it be ok? 


Thanks, and I know it's a goofy question. I just can't remember the answer to this question



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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

if it's DCC ready, it should have the jumper installed ...
for static display on a DCC powered track, just take the jumper out


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

If ya leave the jumper in, you will be able to hear the DCC waveform slamming the magnetic fields back and forth in the motor. Almost like dropping the magnets on the floor.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

wvgca said:


> if it's DCC ready, it should have the jumper installed ...
> for static display on a DCC powered track, just take the jumper out


Ok cool.. thanks a ton. I'll open it up and take a look..

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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

That would be most annoying. So as WV advised, I'll take that out first..

Thank you both for the fat responses..

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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

A decoder receives the square wave AC and modifies it so that the DC motor can use it properly. All HO locomotives that are two rail use DC motors.

If you place a non-DCC/DC only locomotive on DCC-powered rails, the motor will eventually cook. It will possibly make squeals and groans if you get it to move on Address "00", which some DCC systems allow you to do.

Bottom line: you CAN use DC locomotives on DCC rails, but they must keep moving. You CANNOT let them sit. Period.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

mesenteria said:


> A decoder receives the square wave AC and modifies it so that the DC motor can use it properly. All HO locomotives that are two rail use DC motors.
> 
> If you place a non-DCC/DC only locomotive on DCC-powered rails, the motor will eventually cook. It will possibly make squeals and groans if you get it to move on Address "00", which some DCC systems allow you to do.
> 
> Bottom line: you CAN use DC locomotives on DCC rails, but they must keep moving. You CANNOT let them sit. Period.


Now I am confused. From what the others said, you can.. Now your saying that you can't. Maybe I will just keep it on the programming track to be sure I don't burn it up.

I really wanted to at least be able to look at it, but oh well... lol

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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

If it's a "dcc ready" engine (has connector for a decoder), but is only "DC" at the moment, my advice is LEAVE IT OFF THE TRACK _until you install a decoder._

Things will just go better that way...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Simple solution: Place that static DC loco on an isolated
track spur that has no DCC power. If you want the ability
to let it move, use an on/off switch in the track drop.

Don


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

*Sticking my stupid oar in*

I ran DCC back when it was fairly new, still a bit exotic. The responses were spot on, and I don't want to try to improve on them, but it is an interesting question. 

Back then, it was a bit expensive, and I'd run about five locomotives simultaneously on a single track main (that was some darn good fun, I can say with authority). Of the five, my controller (MRC) allowed one to be run non-DCC, or "analog," without a decoder. 

As well explained, above, the analog locomotive could be run independently, or MU'd to any of the DCC equipped, units. BUT, as well described above, it would be getting a little feed of AC electricity that was intended to be used by the decoders on the other four. 

If I brought the analog unit to a stop, it would, as explained, hum. That would be the sound of the electric motor vibrating back and forth in a very rapid oscillation from the AC current for which it is NOT designed. Leaving it at a standstill, as well noted above, would give that analog motor the very bad chance of overheating and melting down plastic components within, ruining it.

Hey, MatroxD, if you could see your way to posting a little video of your layout with the DCC in operation, I'd really get a kick out of that. Doesn't have to be "great," just has to be yours.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

J.Albert1949 said:


> If it's a "dcc ready" engine (has connector for a decoder), but is only "DC" at the moment, my advice is LEAVE IT OFF THE TRACK _until you install a decoder._
> 
> Things will just go better that way...


Yes, you guys are right. It's difficult to leave something off, but it's better to that than risk iit. I thank you guys for the heads up

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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

DonR said:


> Simple solution: Place that static DC loco on an isolated
> track spur that has no DCC power. If you want the ability
> to let it move, use an on/off switch in the track drop.
> 
> Don


Hey don..

Only problem is I don't have a spur without power. It's ok, I'll leave it on the program track I'd anything, add its switched on and off with a DPDT switch and there's no power running to it unless I throw it. 

I may just leave the thing in the box honestly so that I have no temptations. Honestly..

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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Chops said:


> I ran DCC back when it was fairly new, still a bit exotic. The responses were spot on, and I don't want to try to improve on them, but it is an interesting question.
> 
> Back then, it was a bit expensive, and I'd run about five locomotives simultaneously on a single track main (that was some darn good fun, I can say with authority). Of the five, my controller (MRC) allowed one to be run non-DCC, or "analog," without a decoder.
> 
> ...


Hey man..

Yes, after I did some reading up(should have in the first place.. duh on my part), I'm either going to keep it on the programming track that's not normally powered(unless I throw the switch), or just in the box. 

And I will try and get some. I've been stuck the last few months, so I just haven't brought the tripod and camera down. It's one of my next priorities, as I realized that I also realized that haven't shot one single video of this layout as of yet. But as you have requested, I will try and do so. Thanks for the interest.. What im particular are you interested in seeing? I'll tailor it around that

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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

if you remove the jumper, it's the same as NO CONNECTION to the motor, doesn't matter if DCC or DC, there's nothing getting to the motor if the jumper is OFF ..


end result is still .. your railroad, your rules, lol


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

wvgca said:


> if you remove the jumper, it's the same as NO CONNECTION to the motor, doesn't matter if DCC or DC, there's nothing getting to the motor if the jumper is OFF ..
> 
> 
> end result is still .. your railroad, your rules, lol


Yeah, I appreciate the advice dude. I probably will just leave it off for now. Not even worth the risk.. I just don't know enough about the jumpers, etc. To risk it in my eyes at least. I'll just be patient and wait for the decoder to come in..

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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

no problem at all...
i hope that your decoder comes in fairly soon though,


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

wvgca said:


> no problem at all...
> i hope that your decoder comes in fairly soon though,


That's you and me both. There is a local shop that has decoders, but they don't know what's 8 pin and what's not(according to the call I made and spoke to this fossil)... lol

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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MatroxD said:


> Hey don..
> 
> Only problem is I don't have a spur without power. It's ok, I'll leave it on the program track I'd anything, add its switched on and off with a DPDT switch and there's no power running to it unless I throw it.
> 
> ...


A spur without power is ridiculously easy to create. Cut two gaps in the rails and glue a small piece of styrene in it. Voila. Dead track. You can even use clear nail polish to fill the cap, or wood, or anything non- conductive. Or not fill it at all.

If you want to be able to get power to that track, wire a separate set of feeders through an SPST switch.

This whole thing, including installing feeders and a switch, will take less than an hour. Why let your favorite loco languish in a box?


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

MatroxD said:


> Now I am confused. From what the others said, you can.. Now your saying that you can't.



I am sorry for confusing you. 

The DCC signal is imprinted by the spacing, or timing, between successive positive and negative parts of the square wave. As you must realize, DC is 'straight' allatime current. AC of any description is like pulsed current to a DC motor, and when our DC locomotives get digital current, they make noise, they vibrate in frequency, and they heat up as a result. Not so much when you give them enough DCC voltage to get the drive turning over, meaning so is the DC motor. That helps to mitigate the heat build-up. But the wisdom is that a plunked and left DC motor on DCC powered track will heat up and burn eventually. That is why I said you MUST keep them moving, or else depower the tracks below them, or remove them very shortly after they stop moving.

My Digitrax system, the Olde Empire Builder, allows me to run DC locomotives using the digital current by operating the throttle with the address "00" acquired on it. But you should hear and witness the protestations, loud and complaining, from the frequency imparted in that digital voltage by the motor. It's not a pleasant experience. I did it only once....just 'cuz. Never again.



MatroxD said:


> Maybe I will just keep it on the programming track to be sure I don't burn it up.
> 
> I really wanted to at least be able to look at it, but oh well... lol
> 
> Sent from my Note 8


Those who are suggesting that you keep a 'switchable' length of track hand, near the front of the layout ideally, are offering sound advice. There really ought to be several lengths of track on your layout where you can park entire trains, or portions of them, and to depower the tracks under them since the decoders do use a small bit of current to keep listening for the commands that might come their way. If sound decoders, and not muted, they'll take even more of their share of current to make idling sounds. So, if power might be a bit stretched at times, depower the tracks that have locomotives and lit passenger cars you don't want to power any longer. Cut a rail gap, or leave a tiny gap just after the diverging leg of a ladder track turnout, say, and use a simple single throw switch to flick off power. The switches must be wired in series between your power bus and the feeders up to the rails.

As a matter of course, I programme all locomotives on my turntable lead which runs about 10" from the belly edge of my yard module. It is gapped naturally at the edge of the pit, and also at the turnout that permits access to the lead. I can wire it to a DPST in series just a few inches from the Digitrax command station mounted in a box in my fascia. The DPST is about six inches away from it, also mounted in a hole made in the fascia.

The way I do it is to run only the main bus from the one set of poles, the 'on' set. To the input poles, I wire the first portion of the main bus from the command station terminals AND the feeders to the turntable lead, both wires wrapped around the screw on each side, positive and negative. When I want to operate the layout, the DPST is toggled 'on' and all tracks are powered. When I want to alter addresses or do unique CV configurations to only one loco, I flick the toggle and the layout goes silent (I'm a lone operator, and can only safely do one thing at a time, so the dead layout is fine with me). I fiddle with the locomotive in front of me on the lead, still powered, and then repower the layout by flicking the toggle once again.

To keep some tracks dead all the time, I wire a switch to my staging yard below the layout. They're the only tracks I want to configure that way. I rarely have more than two locomotives powered at a time, mainly because I can't safely operate more than two doing different things.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Ok guys.. you have given me new "construction idears".. lol.. Just how to incorporate them into a small layout like mine is the question. I do like the idea of a staging yard under the table, but, the only way I think I could get it to work, would be to put it on casters.. And I can't have it, so that it is always out(I was barely able to squeeze the 8x4 out of the wife.

I really, really, really like the idea of having some dead track around the layout, but have never done it before. And I thought about putting the program track actually on the table, but got so involved in building the scenery. This is only my second table, so I'm learning as I go I suppose. And I really, really, after I began building rolling stock, wished for a yard. Even a small one would be awesome. It's just at this point where.. Where could I put it, and i'd pretty much have to "I'm thinking" build a sort of module onto the layout, which she isn't going to be happy about..

And I wish I had followed my first mind and not put track near the edge of the layout..

This has turned into an interesting discussion.. And the confusion was simply because I didn't know how that would work..

I need you guys to do me a favor and look at my thread and they layout and give me some suggestions on where some dead track would look good? That and any suggestions on how I could create and incorporate a yard into the small area..

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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Well, got the loco and going top pick up a digitrax decoder after work. 

Truly, thank you everyone for your great help and advice. I appreciate you all..

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