# Question About Painting and Gluing Wood Structure Kits



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

I am at the point in my layout construction where it is time to start populating the layout with structures. I have built 4-5 plastic kits, but most of the rest of the kits that I have accumulated are wood. I have never built a wood kit before, so I have been researching how to make them – both here and elsewhere on the internet.

One recommendation that I see frequently is: Paint before assembly. I understand the reasons for this. But my question is: Does the glue stick to the painted wood? I plan on using Elmers’ regular white glue. I know that it dries slowly, but I prefer something that I can back up dis-assemble if necessary. (This philosophy saved m a couple of times on the plastic kits. I did use plastic cement , but very sparingly.) I usually work on several kits simultaneously – switching to another kit, while one dries.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MtRR75 said:


> I am at the point in my layout construction where it is time to start populating the layout with structures. I have built 4-5 plastic kits, but most of the rest of the kits that I have accumulated are wood. I have never built a wood kit before, so I have been researching how to make them – both here and elsewhere on the internet.
> 
> One recommendation that I see frequently is: Paint before assembly. I understand the reasons for this. But my question is: Does the glue stick to the painted wood? I plan on using Elmers’ regular white glue. I know that it dries slowly, but I prefer something that I can back up dis-assemble if necessary. (This philosophy saved m a couple of times on the plastic kits. I did use plastic cement , but very sparingly.) I usually work on several kits simultaneously – switching to another kit, while one dries.


The short answer is yes, but the adhesive bond is only as strong as the paint-to-wood adhesion underneath it.

Plastic cements often use solvents which melt or soften the plastic on both sides, thus fusing the two parts together. Any paint or old adhesive prevents the glue from reaching the plastic. White glue, and most other types, actually bond to the item rather than making the parts bond to themselves.

That said, I still usually leave the gluing surfaces unpainted (where it is possible to tell in advance what those will be). The glue will seal the wood, preventing moisture intrusion, and the accompanying warping and / or swelling. White glue will work just fine. I use Aleene's Tacky Glue, which is just really thick white glue. The additional tack allows it to hold parts immediately with little clamping, thereby speeding assembly.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

I plan to seal the wood with either white or gray primer -- spray can version. So that will cover all of the wood - including the flue joints. Presumably that will enhance the paint-to-wood seal.

Thanks for the response.

I don't yet know whether I will apply the top coat of paint via hand brush or air brush. Certainly, small pieces will be hand-brushed. I have purchased an air brush, which would make the large pieces go faster and probably look better. I need to find the time to get it out and practice using it.

For the plastic models, I have been using acrylic craft paints to add additional color textures to some of the parts. But I need to get better quality paint for the air brush. I have been looking into Vallejo paints. The local Hobbytown carries a full line of the Vallejo Model Colors -- which is the brush-on version. The air brush version is called Model Air Colors. Hobbytown does not carry them. MicroMark carries some of the Vallejo Air Colors, but wants to sell them in sets. I prefer to buy just the colors that I need. Still looking for a good source for individual bottles of the Air Colors.


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## Mark R. (Jan 26, 2013)

I strongly recommend Weldbond glue. Works just like white glue, but dries faster. As an added bonus, if you mess something up, hit the joint with a hot hair dryer or heat gun and it softens the glue allowing you to reposition the joint or take it apart completely with ease.

I worked for a couple years for a commercial laser business building wood structures for clients and Weldbond was the only adhesive they would allow us to use.

Mark.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Mark R. said:


> I strongly recommend Weldbond glue. Works just like white glue, but dries faster. As an added bonus, if you mess something up, hit the joint with a hot hair dryer or heat gun and it softens the glue allowing you to reposition the joint or take it apart completely with ease.
> 
> I worked for a couple years for a commercial laser business building wood structures for clients and Weldbond was the only adhesive they would allow us to use.
> 
> Mark.


Is Weldbond more likely to be found in a hobby store or a hardware store? Can it be removed with water if you get to it before it dries? What about after it dries? Does soaking in water loosen it up?


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## Mark R. (Jan 26, 2013)

Should be able to find it in most hardware or big box stores. Water soluable - cleans up easily with water. Water doesn't have much effect once it's dry (wouldn't want the wood to get wet anyway). However, it doesn't dry brittle hard like regular white glue. Once dry, it's almost like really hard rubber. Heating it softens it allowing you to scrape off the residue.

It's a very universal glue. We used it to glue metal and plastic parts to the wood as well. 

Mark.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Mark, you probably know that I'm a big fan of Vallejo's paints. I have about 200 different shades, about 80% of which are Model Color (my other indoor hobby is painting miniatures) or Panzer Aces, the rest are Model Air. You can use Model Color in an airbrush, suitably thinned.

My go-to supplier is Scale Hobbyist (www.scalehobbyist.com). They carry the full line, and have very low prices, even with shipping. I get packages from them in about 3 business days with USPS priority mail shipping , although you're a lot farther away.

One thing I recommend is to purchase a book of the hand painted swatches. There is one for Model Color / Panzer Aces and one for Model Air. They are fairly expensive, but valuable, because I find on-line color charts (even from their website) just can't be trusted. The printed versions are better, but some shades are still way off.

Any other questions about Vallejo, just ask.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> One thing I recommend is to purchase a book of the hand painted swatches. There is one for Model Color / Panzer Aces and one for Model Air. They are fairly expensive, but valuable, because I find on-line color charts (even from their website) just can't be trusted. The printed versions are better, but some shades are still way off.


As a photographer, I definitely understand what you are saying. I know how on-line colors are affected by the monitor -- and the sometimes even the viewing angle -- not to mention what processes went on at their end -- converting the paint swatches to a digital form.

And then there are the effects of different lighting -- train room vs. computer room vs. store lighting.

So were do you get these books? I checked the scale hobbyist web site and did not find them.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MtRR75 said:


> As a photographer, I definitely understand what you are saying. I know how on-line colors are affected by the monitor -- and the sometimes even the viewing angle -- not to mention what processes went on at their end -- converting the paint swatches to a digital form.
> 
> And then there are the effects of different lighting -- train room vs. computer room vs. store lighting.
> 
> So were do you get these books? I checked the scale hobbyist web site and did not find them.


They're actually a tri-fold of heavy cardstock, and they really are "hand painted" with an actual paint sample, which I suppose justifies the price. The Model Color / Panzer Aces one is a brush stroke on a white background, whereas the Model Air one has a graduated thickness of paint from one end of the swatch to the other, so you can see what a light mist or a full application will look like.

Not a lot of people carry them. They're obviously not a fast mover. When I bought mine, I did a Google search and found someone selling on eBay. A company I deal with, called Michigan Toy Soldier Company (www.michtoy.com) will special order them. You might see if your LHS will do the special order. Don't fall over when you see the asking price. I paid significantly less a decade ago.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep my eye out for them. But it's not as big a deal with structures as it would be with rolling stock, were color matching is more important. I am modeling the 1920s, when photography was B&W. So there is little prototype color info available. So I can pretty much go with what I want.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Yeah, I agree. "Close enough" pretty much defines my strategy, too. A depot or station needs to be dark yellow and chocolate brown. Even though I have preserved samples of New Haven buildings close by, you won't see me out with paint chips trying to find an exact match.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

If I'm going to use a stain [rather than paint] I try to stain before gluing .. an accidental smear of glue won't take the stain as well, and is quite noticeable after


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Very good point.

I actually tried that deliberately once, to try to make an old barn look aged and weather beaten. I didn't like how it turned out, and painted over it.


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