# 2016-Good Year or Not for the O-Gauge Hobby



## Guest (Nov 29, 2016)

I guess you could start by saying any year that you are active in our hobby is a good year. But, that's not the theme of this tread. The theme is how do you rate the year in terms of new equipment announced or released from the manufacturers, accessories available that interest you, train stuff offered by the other peripheral suppliers, and the general state of the hobby.

Personally, I would rate the year at a *"C"* at best. The catalogs from the major manufacturers sure lacked excitement.For me, it has been one of the poorest years for new product in recent memory. I don't know if this is a result of economical cutbacks resulting in the lack of new tooling or whatever, but it did not take long to go through the catalogs and nothing really interested me. Sorry Charles Ro, but it is what it is. 

I think the cottage industry guys held their own this year. We still have an abundant supply of neat accessories from them that enhance our layouts.

Mike Reagan pulled up stakes at Lionel and has moved on, to what, we just have to wait and see. OGR hung out the "for sale" shingle. Certainly gives pause to wonder how this will effect our hobby in general. Neither of these events would cause me to lose any sleep, but they do have an impact on many. 

The lack of new products that interest me does not in the slightest way deter my interest in this hobby that continues strong. I look at the year in terms of it's overall contributions to our hobby, and this is how I came up with my rating.

Please post your comments and your rating on the ABC, etc. scale.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I would rate it a B+. While I agree with PTC about the new products & catalogs I've been buying NOS. (new old stock) Engines I really liked but missed in there debut announcements. (I only buy new, never used)
Also with the addition of Menards I have increased my collection of cars. (Maybe too much).
Just for these 2 reasons I gave it a good grade. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I would rate this year an A.

Received the Union Pacific Aerotrain that I have been wanting for ages.

Placed an order for the MTH Milwaukee box cabs and the Great Northern 44 tonner which will make next year a terrific year also when delivered.

The Menards buildings were also a mystery bonus this year.

Bill


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

I'll give it a B- overall.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

I'll give it a C+. There wasn't much in the catalogs this year. I did get my 44 Ton Switcher from MTH after a 2 year wait. I also got an Aerotrain a RS-27 and 6 GLA Coal Hoppers.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

I would also grade this year a C. After scrolling through the manufacturers' ho-hum disappointing catalogs, there just isn't any excitement left for this year's O scale stuff. I've put expanding my layout on hold and have no purchases planned for a long time now, as 3 rail O scale continues to decline. 😢


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, it was a good year for the hobby, for me. As for the greater hobby, at best this seemed to be a year where the hobby bearly held its own. Lionel isn't impressing me (I don't know about the rest of you guys). MTH is, somewhat. WBB continues to do too many things I just don't think are wise(why not gear their locos from much lower speeds, and put in good sound?) , and not enough of things I like ('STreets Divco trucks!!!).


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

For me, the hobby is what I make of it. And I've had a good year. I've like a lot of the offerings from the manufacturers and bought some of them. I'm still working and not retired, so whenever I can mess around with my trains, I'm happy.

I was sorry to see Mike leave Lionel, but I certainly wish him and his family the absolute best. He has always been most kind and helpful to me. And as far as the OGR deal, it's business and wish them the best.

I wouldn't even to begin to grade the industry as a whole as I know nothing about manufacturing model trains, but for me personally, I'm enjoying the hobby.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Nothing that made me excited this year except for the release of the 44 Tonner which I now have 2. The other was the PS1 sound freight car, huge disappointment. Mostly because its random so even operating it in my switching yard, you would never hear it, unless it was used in a long switch. Sold it to a friend, he doesn't care for it either.
If it wasn't for the 44s, I would have given a "D", but upgraded to a C+ only because of them.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Maybe it's them
Maybe it's me
Just a blah year
We rate it a C


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

As for seeing what was in the Catalogs I'd give it a B-. I was excited for the Reading and Northern sd38s and the R&N Lionechief pacific but besides that I am in really no need for much more. As far as the prices are going,,I can't figure this out:dunno:.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I won't attempt to rate it, but I like the little 44-Tonner from MTH, in spite of the weak supercaps.


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## michrr714 (Oct 1, 2015)

I think the pricing does need to get under control. There were a few items in catalogs I was happy to see. I have to pull from all manufacturers though to find what I'm interested in. Although most of my trains are Lionel, I also have many things from MTH, Atlas, RMT, Williams and Weaver as well.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was looking at the Allegheny, and I have to agree on the pricing! For just a couple more hundred, I got the Vision Line Big Boy with all the neat features it offers.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I won't attempt to rate it, but I like the little 44-Tonner from MTH, in spite of the weak supercaps.


Have you tried this supercap to see if it will help.
http://www.googleadservices.com/pag...2n2452lLfsQs65zHhcmYrBb2bt1G1NEuHx6FtGEaAj-Af


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## c.midland (Sep 22, 2015)

My enjoyment of the hobby: A 
I've found building rolling stock kits very rewarding, if not a little expensive. 

I might as well be that guy: Overall manufacturers/importers, a D. Mth priced me out of the market by not offering dummies (I really wanted the Santa Fe FT's), and the poor reviews of the Lionel 2-8-0's, which were also a little pricey. Williams new semi-scale steam loco. was of interest, but again, poor reviews, and a high price point due to the addition of sound, which doesn't interest me. I had considered a Lionel mogul, but with the current small loco. problems they're having, I'm going to pass on that one as well. 

Who knows, next year may be great!


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I was looking at the Allegheny, and I have to agree on the pricing! For just a couple more hundred, I got the Vision Line Big Boy with all the neat features it offers.


Don't worry, John. Lionel up'd the prices again this year so all the VisionLine Big Boy buyers would feel better. See??? It worked.  It was all part of the plan. And they'll probably do it again when the next VisionLine product is announced (and delivered). 

In all seriousness though, the pricing for new stuff is completely out of control. And it's leaving many enthusiasts in the dust. Nonetheless, it's fun watching from the sidelines, and dipping my feet in the water every now and then when stuff goes "on sale".

David


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'll give it a b. Catalogs were meh I did a lot of purchasing and scenery work. Getting my layout photo published in ctt was the highlight for me


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

I have everything I want at this point. Very few purchases in the future.

Not much of interest in any of the catalogs this year. MTH was not
impressive to say the least. Lionel made me happy with the new UP Excursion train, though it's yet to be delivered. As the saying goes, can't make everyone happy.

Honestly, I'm disappointed with quality of product & manufacturers not delivering items as described in catalogs. I'm not much into 3R anymore but will vote with my wallet if the correct product comes along.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2016)

I would rate it a B. I don't pre order but there were a few things announced that I will buy when they are eventually available. I usually find something in each year's catalogue that I would like to buy.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I'm not active enough to give it a grade. I will say I haven't seen anything in the catalogs that just say I HAVE to have it. The sale of OGR, the Reagan departure, the continual rise in Lionel prices do have me thinking 2017 is going to be quite the ride!!

*The theme is how do you rate the year in terms of new equipment announced or released from the manufacturers, accessories available "that interest you", train stuff offered by the other peripheral suppliers, and the general state of the hobby.* *D*


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

This could be an interesting thread if most of you would read Brian's first paragraph in his first post and do what he asked. 

He's not asking if it was a good year for you because you purchased something you'd been looking for new or used, and not how you rate this year just because you bought one item out of a catalog you like. So, because of this, it was a good year for the hobby OVERALL, just because you found something you liked? Some of you didn't even grade the year with an A, B, or C grade. Geez.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2016)

Thanks Vern for clarifying my attempt at getting a reading of how members felt "overall" about the hobby in 2016.

The A-B-C, etc. scale is a very easy way to interpret this.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

You're welcome, Brian. This is a good thread and I'm hoping to read more responses done right.


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## michrr714 (Oct 1, 2015)

Yellowstone Special said:


> This could be an interesting thread if most of you would read Brian's first paragraph in his first post and do what he asked.
> 
> He's not asking if it was a good year for you because you purchased something you'd been looking for new or used, and not how you rate this year just because you bought one item out of a catalog you like. So, because of this, it was a good year for the hobby OVERALL, just because you found something you liked? Some of you didn't even grade the year with an A, B, or C grade. Geez.


I'm happy to supply the grade I overlooked in my post as a "C" for the hobby overall. Would be nice if your post didn't have such a snarky tone to it. I thought this kind of posting didn't happen over here.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I guess you could start by saying any year that you are active in our hobby is a good year. But, that's not the theme of this tread. The theme is how do you rate the year in terms of new equipment announced or released from the manufacturers, accessories available that interest you, train stuff offered by the other peripheral suppliers, and the general state of the hobby.


Personally, I saw the "you", which means "me" and what interest and new products stimulated me to purchase.
I didn't see anything by any manufacturers or suppliers that would be "wants, or needs" for my layout. Be it new equipment announcements, or releases. Some because of prices, or its been done before and why pay a premium for problematic features which I don't use, smoke, steam whistle smoke, etc. I can't speak overall for what the products offered will do for the hobby, or sales since everyone has different interest and perceptions on what they want to have built.
I can say what I bought and what I liked and based that on a grade that I gave.
So Yellowstone Special, sorry but that's what I read, interpreted, and graded accordingly. I saw the "YOU", meaning "ME' and I can't speak for the "rest" since their wants and needs are different. So, can't speak for what new products or releases has done overall for the hoby. But I respect each posters time to post and their grading, (if given or not), and what they encompassed from this years offering. 
No disrespect intended, just as I see it.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Oh boy, here we go. Snarky? Maybe a little bit. But I'm not a politically correct, beat-around-the-bush, afraid of hurting someone's feelings, type of person. I tend to tell it like it is and be to the point. I guess I learned this from my Marine D.I. and other instructors back in Pensacola, FL, during Naval Air training and it's just sort of stayed with me.

I expect grown men to be able to read and write I was excited about this thread when Brian started it using his parameters, because I was anxious to see what others felt about the overall status of the hobby after a somewhat tumultuous year. But only about half of the respondents did that.

Am I expecting too much?


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2016)

I'm sure it wasn't intended Charlie. We all try to keep it light. At least we don't have some goofy moderator with the big delete key. Our's doesn't have one.  Just kidding, John.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

michrr714 said:


> I'm happy to supply the grade I overlooked in my post as a "C" for the hobby overall. Would be nice if your post didn't have such a snarky tone to it. I thought this kind of posting didn't happen over here.


Agreed.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

*Be afraid, be very afraid!*


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Oh oh!


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Oh oh!


Gunrunner knows and sees everything. :appl:


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2016)

That's funny, John. Made my day.

All kidding aside, we can all be thankful for John. He is the best, or King as it may be.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Walter, Brian, and even GRJ: Appreciate your comments. Thank you.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Better watch out the gunrunner is here. Vern I'm not a PC kinda guy either. I going with C. I'm not very impressed with the new stuff from the 'big three' for a multitude of reasons. The hobby gets an A.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

OK, GRJ that was funny! I guess we're all on double secret probation! Time to shape up boys!!


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm having a record year I give myself a 
D+ in the amount of Engines in repairs
C+ in the cars purchased
C in Locos, my New class A has to get returned to Lionel for repairs, Challenger went in for repairs
Overall I give myself a D


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I posted on a review of a recent purchase that I'm concerned about the price of quality engines now. Over the past few years, Lionel has raised the price point for top-tier (Vision) locos to about two grand, and this year, as far as my purchases and orders where concerned, MTH mailed down an expectation that really good steamers of any size cost around $1K for just a "normal good model locomotive." This just strikes me as too much, and as I said in that other thread, I'm surprised I am no more uncomfortable with it. 

I worry that the hobby fragmenting into two parts: affordable hobbiests who stick with used survivors from the poastwar and MPC era and try to put up with the crap quality of modern locos built to a low price point, or a few who can afford the pricey stuff, who do, but no longer represent anything like the mainstream hobby.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sadly Lee, I think you may be right. Not many people can afford to spend thousands of dollars a year on the hobby, so they get left behind. I'm not sure where this is headed, I only hope the major manufacturers don't price themselves out of the business.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I never write anything negative in my posts but have to say that recently I've noticed that some of the posts are starting to sound like the OGR forum. I certainly hope that isin't going to be the new trend here at MTF.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Sadly Lee, I think you may be right. Not many people can afford to spend thousands of dollars a year on the hobby, so they get left behind. I'm not sure where this is headed, I only hope the major manufacturers don't price themselves out of the business.


I think Lionel is already doing that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, we have to have one or two negative thoughts Spence.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Spence said:


> I never write anything negative in my posts but have to say that recently I've noticed that some of the posts are starting to sound like the OGR forum. I certainly hope that isin't going to be the new trend here at MTF.


Not to worry, Spence. Its not THAT bad. Just chill and go enjoy one over at the Shore Bird for me.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> ... Not many people can afford to spend thousands of dollars a year on the hobby, so they get left behind. ...


The harsh reality is folks can spend $500-$1,000 just on "miscellaneous" items quite easily these days. And it can all fit in a small bag, as you walk out of the LHS. The "thud" factor is gone.

And when you look at the really big-ticket items, they're not cheap anymore even when a great Black Friday sale comes along. Case in point, if price was no object... and I were shopping purely on what I liked without concern for price... Black Friday gave us the opportunity to snag the Allegheny for $1,700... Daylight and AFT GS-4's for $1,200... and two Heislers for $975/each. Just like that at the click of the mouse, I could have spent $6K on stuff I liked.  Had I pre-ordered all of those items, I would have spent closer to $7K.

How can the importers and their dealer networks sustain that kind of business?  Undoubtedly, I'm sure some folks can chalk up these new prices to life in the big city. But as Lee pointed out, even in the MTH world $1,000 is becoming the going rate for basic steam locomotives. And MTH is churning them out in droves again, after a couple years' drought due to overseas factory issues. But who's gonna buy all this stuff?

For these reasons, I give 2016 a C- grade. Were it not for the serious pricing problems looming, I probably would have rated things a B+, because it was a year that brought lots of good events too: Both MTH and Atlas-O made good on restocking some very critical SKU's in their track product lines after almost 2-years of zero inventory at warehouses and dealer stores. Atlas-O delivered both its Golden Spike Club and Limited Edition versions of the company's 12-car California Zephyr sets, along with the Gunderson Maxi-IV well cars with containers. And MTH delivered product like there's no tomorrow, including LOTS of steam product that was MIA for a few years.

It's still a great time to be in the hobby, and the breadth of product is almost too good. But that's also a double-edged sword as the glut of toy/model trains in the market continues to be very real. Nonetheless, if you actually take the time to focus on layout building rather than simply chasing every new product that somebody reviews online when they're the first kid on the block to own it, you'll find that it can be a very rewarding time to be in the hobby. Just have fun YOUR way, as opposed to the way the importers are telling you to have fun.

David


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2016)

I believe the major players in our hobby are already feeling the *lack of interest crunch* for their big ticket items. The catalogs are a clear indication of this trend. 

Let's see if they get the message. Poor sales can have a huge impact on them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think they need one or two *WOW* items and then some more reasonably priced items. The 2014 Catalog with the VL-BB is a case in point. They sold an absolute ton of those, that must have made a nice thud on the bottom line!


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

One thing about our Hobby, I'm talking just "O" from my point and what I see. Decades ago one could, (when they were in almost every town), into a Hobby Shop, catch a catalog, see the items on shelves and possible a display layout. You could see what was popular by what was disappearing from the shelves each week. In todays world, we only have the internet, and Forums like this to judge popularity and what is selling, being manufactured, and pricing. But, we are a small number that participate on these Forums, or know/knew these exist. I only say this because looking at "O" scale sales on E-Bay, "O" is still alive and popular still. I'm sure many modelers are unaware of new products, or BTO items, etc. since their only source is E-Bay or possible a Train Show in area. Grocery Stores, WalMart, etc. use to carry Model Railroad magazines, not anymore in my area. 
Using a Forum to judge how stable our hobby is, or sales of a particular item is probable small. Otherwise MTH, Lionel, etc. would be concentrating their resources into "N" or "HO" items. Personally with the new items, and especially resource, and work put into just the 44 Tonner to meet the criteria of scale, and operating features, shows that our Hobby is alive.
With products I see coming out from MTH, and Atlas, I feel comfortable. With Mike leaving Lionel, I do wonder were their direction will be.
I only use knowledge of participating in a particular field of which there are over 90,000 active people, but yet in the 2 forums dedicated to this field, less then 22,000 members in both forums. Even less are active participants in the forums.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2016)

There have been years when there was a flood of affordable new equipment. John's analysis of the Big Boy and it's WOW factor is a good example of a product that there was a high demand for. Lionel was smart in tying this to the refurbishing of the 1 to 1.

It wasn't too long ago when the Cab Forward was released at a fair price. What made it more special was the Daylight fantasy version.

Hopefully we will see a better year in 2017.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

It wasn't too long ago when the Cab Forward was released at a fair price. What made it more special was the Daylight fantasy version.

Boy; how I wish MTH would come out with a Daylight fantasy version. :thumbsup:


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Lionel could have given the Allegheny more "WOW" factor, if this beast of a locomotive featured steam-chest emissions. And enthusiasts would have even been pleasantly surprised, if Lionel delivered roadname/number-specific Crewtalk and Towercom -- a feature that has now been relegated to VisionLine products.

The latter is pure laziness and corner-cutting on Lionel's part -- especially since VisionLine features were originally designed to trickle DOWN to items in the company's standard product line. But in this case, a feature that WAS already standard throughout much of the product line has been restricted to VisionLine products now.  

A more exotic feature like the steam-chest emissions would have likely required extensive coordination with overseas manufacturers to implement. And THAT seems to be a big challenge for all the importers across the board. 

Case in point... look at the countless issues Scott Mann ran into trying to get something as basic as the second-run of El Capitan passenger cars into production (with no tooling changes). Most US-based project managers might have just thrown up their hands and said "the heck with the project". But it appears the stars were aligned properly for Scott, when he located the same crew working in a new factory to pull off production that should hopefully match the fit-and-finish of the earlier El Cap train -- especially since a number of cars in the second production run were ordered as "add-on" cars to trains already in the hands of El Cap enthusiasts.

Going beyond a basic re-issue, the gnawing issue of trying to coordinate production changes and/or produce new tooling may be one of the reasons we're seeing MTH re-issue locomotives of 5-10 years ago with little or no changes made in new production runs. While these locomotives won't appeal to owners who already have the former models on their roster, it does allow those of us who might have missed out earlier to jump at the opportunity for a re-issue.

I don't expect we'll see relationships improve all that much between US importers and Asian factories going into 2017. The overseas labor picture seems muddy on a good day for toy train manufacturing nowadays, so expect to see more of the "tail wagging the dog" syndrome in the foreseeable future. 

This alone is one of the major stumbling blocks that will make it difficult for 2017 to be that much different a year than we've had in the hobby for 2015-2016. I'm sure we'll manage to see one or two products with new features and/or new tooling along the way. I just don't expect that will be the norm for all products though.

David


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

I have bought nothing new in O gauge for the past 3 or 4 years. They ( the manufactures ) have priced me right out of it. 

I would love to buy a VL locomotive but that is not going to happen. I'm still having fun though not just anything new.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

davidone said:


> I have bought nothing new in O gauge for the past 3 or 4 years. They ( the manufactures ) have priced me right out of it.
> 
> I would love to buy a VL locomotive but that is not going to happen. I'm still having fun though not just anything new.


I thought you threw us over for HO, I don't think Lionel had any Vision Line HO products.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> The harsh reality is folks can spend $500-$1,000 just on "miscellaneous" items quite easily these days. And it can all fit in a small bag, as you walk out of the LHS. The "thud" factor is gone.
> 
> And when you look at the really big-ticket items, they're not cheap anymore even when a great Black Friday sale comes along. Case in point, if price was no object... and I were shopping purely on what I liked without concern for price... Black Friday gave us the opportunity to snag the Allegheny for $1,700... Daylight and AFT GS-4's for $1,200... and two Heislers for $975/each. Just like that at the click of the mouse, I could have spent $6K on stuff I liked.  Had I pre-ordered all of those items, I would have spent closer to $7K.
> 
> David


 Here's a thought David.
Maybe we should add up the cost of the Christmas catalogs every year like they do for the 12 days of Christmas.

5 gold rings = xxx
3 french hens = xxx
2 turtle doves = xxx

total cast for 2016 = xxx

Take one of each item in the catalog and add up the total cost of purchasing all the items.

1 polar express set = xxx
2 naughty and nice cars = xxx

Total cost for 2016 = xxx

You get the idea... I bet it would be a hoot comparing the prices from the 1930 to now....

Bruce....


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Bruce,

The world is a pretty different place now. Some of the catalogs in the 1960's were like pamphlets, whereas most catalogs today are as thick as old printed phone books. Even the late Frank Sinatra would balk at buying one of everything today! 

David


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I just wait for train shows now. I was able to buy three engines at York for under $300 a piece. One was Legacy and two were TMCC. I had some smoke unit issues with two of them, but they are fixed now. 

The Legacy engine is going for $500 on the Lionel website. If I had to pay that price I wouldn't have bought it. I will not pay more than $50 for on-line orders. If I can't look at it up close I don't buy it.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

DennyM said:


> I just wait for train shows now. I was able to buy three engines for under $300 a piece. One was Legacy and two were TMCC. I had some smoke unit issues with two of them, but they are fixed now.
> 
> The Legacy engine is going for $500 on the Lionel website. If I had to pay that price I wouldn't have bought it. I will not pay more than $50 for on-line orders. If I can't look at it up close I don't buy it.


Now that's smart. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

When I look at the O gauge universe, I'm seeing Atlas O on a come back trail with some neat releases like their F units, Gunderson Maxi stack-IV intermodal cars and complete California Zephyr sets. Lionel and MTH still offering large catalogs and 3rd Rail seemingly increasing their amount of offerings. 

Everyone has their own preferences, but the manufacturers are offering a lot of product so people must be buying. I have my own preferences and some offerings interest me and some don't, but I'm not disappointed in any of the O gauge items. 

What does cause me to pause and take longer to decide to buy is the jump in pricing. I'm never one to complain about pricing as we all make our own decisions on what we want to pay. But I think longer before I pull the trigger now. For 2016 I would have rated it higher, but for these reasons I give it a B-.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I like Atlas stuff when I see it, but then I have to work on it, and I understand again why I don't buy it for myself! I think they go out of their way to make their locomotives difficult to work on!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I like Atlas stuff when I see it, but then I have to work on it, and I understand again why I don't buy it for myself! I think they go out of their way to make their locomotives difficult to work on!


Bob P. (Mich.) was saying the same thing about Lionel. He was replacing my smoke unit fan and dropped one of the screws. You know how small they are and since they won't stick to magnets you have to crawl around on the floor looking for them. He said and I quote. "They do this just to piss you off!" How the heck do they make screws that small?


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Sadly Lee, I think you may be right. Not many people can afford to spend thousands of dollars a year on the hobby, so they get left behind. I'm not sure where this is headed, I only hope the major manufacturers don't price themselves out of the business.


Except Doug, he has more money than God.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

From the sounds of Brian's (Traindiesel) purchases at York every trip, I think he's up there with the "more money that God" crowd as well.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)

All a matter of priorities for him, John.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

To be clear, I don't begrudge him his purchases, I think it's great.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)

Just kidding, John. Brian is a great guy and is partial to passenger trains as well. Knowing this fact, he has to be good. :thumbsup:


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Ah, well I believe God has a few more bucks than I do. But I've been blessed with an understanding wife who not only likes trains and buys stuff for the layout herself, but she encourages me to buy trains I like and joins me for all kinds of train events like excursions, rail fanning and the York Meet. She enjoys seeing the little kid in me when I'm around trains or talking about trains. And since I never spent money on drugs, alcohol or smoking, she's happy. 

And as much as I like modern freight cars, I lean heavily towards scale passenger equipment. The manufacturers have offered a lot of great passenger product the last few years.

Brian, Lynley and I are looking forward to seeing you and Elizabeth at York in April! We missed you guys in October. Hope you're feeling better!


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

I basically put my main thoughts/gripes about this year over on the 'quality of products' thread but to answer Brian's original question about the state of the hobby as a whole, I'd have to rate 2016 a below average C- and that's being a bit generous. Really don't like what I am seeing in terms of price policy from Lionel in addition to what seems to me to be a downgrading of their passenger car offerings. Compared to just a couple of years back when the Cab Forwards/VLBB came out Lionel's 2016 products mostly were of no interest at all to me. The same goes for MTH's 2016 catalog offerings; nothing there even tempted me.

What redeemed the year in part were other suppliers' efforts. Menards is a case in point and also 3rd Rail. I don't buy Atlas products so I can't comment on them other than to say that after really long waiting periods I'm glad people who want their diesels and California Zephyr sets are getting them. 

I'm concerned we'll see more of the same from Lionel/MTH in the next year but I'd love to be proved wrong.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I believe the major players in our hobby are already feeling the *lack of interest crunch* for their big ticket items. The catalogs are a clear indication of this trend.
> 
> Let's see if they get the message. Poor sales can have a huge impact on them.


Yep, Mike Wolf stated about 5 years ago that the O Gauge business is flat. He also stated that one of his European steamers is the best selling steamer that MTH has. I assume that is because of European sales of his product.

I have always said that MTH has to many irons in the fire with his G Gauge, Tinplate, O gauge, S Gauge and HO gauge but the guy is still in business after 35 years.

With K-Line, Weaver, and RMT biting the dust that has to create more potential business for the survivors. Maybe that is why Menards Trains is doing OK.

Bill


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Yep, Mike Wolf stated about 5 years ago that the O Gauge business is flat. He also stated that one of his European steamers is the best selling steamer that MTH has. I assume that is because of European sales of his product.
> 
> I have always said that MTH has to many irons in the fire with his G Gauge, Tinplate, O gauge, S Gauge and HO gauge but the guy is still in business after 35 years.
> 
> ...


I don't know how Mike Wolf keeps MTH in business, but he does. And I don't think the demise of K-Line, Weaver, and RMT has necessarily created more potential business for the survivors. With the 3-rail O scale market shrinking and the established customer base dying off and continuing to do so, the survivors will be lucky to hang on to the volume of business they already have.

Menard's train line is doing OK because they've managed to undercut the remaining big 3's pricing. Their detailed and well-made cars are a good value for around $20.00. We certainly don't see that kind of pricing from the big 3.

I'm wondering how much longer Lionel will be able to stay in business. I guess time will tell. Just my 2 cents.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm not sure how anguishing about the life of the hobby is all that useful, just enjoy it for what it is. I'm sure it'll outlast me, I have enough cool stuff that I can run until I'm worm food without worrying that something new might not come along.


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## walter (Jan 31, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I can run until I'm worm food without worrying that something new might not come along.


Hopefully the worm gets hooked to a record holding trophy.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm not sure how anguishing about the life of the hobby is all that useful, just enjoy it for what it is. I'm sure it'll outlast me, I have enough cool stuff that I can run until I'm worm food without worrying that something new might not come along.


Not really "anguishing" about it, John. I too, have enjoyed the hobby enough years and have more than enough equipment (although not as much as many of you) to last me for the rest of my years without ever having to purchase anything new again.

And I'm a little surprised that 3-rail O gauge and Lionel have lasted as long as they have. Just sayin.'


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