# Alternate to nicrome wire and wick question



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I saw a YouTube video where someone used a low resistance one half watt resistor to replace the wire/wick original. I cannot remember where I saw this approach. Does anyone know about this? :dunno:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have not seen or heard of anything like that. I don't know how it would work 
without a wick. I guess some other modifications would need to be done.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Carl Tuveson shows how to use a 27 ohm smoke element resistor in place of nichrome wire. It is on his site under "Hints& Tips", A Hybrid Smoke Element.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know of any 1/2W resistor that would do the trick. Maybe if you would post the link to the video we could comment more intelligently.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I don't know of any 1/2W resistor that would do the trick. Maybe if you would post the link to the video we could comment more intelligently.


I, in my haste, said 1/2 watt and meant 2 watt. And it was wire wound The big problem is that it has to fit inside a AF smoke unit to replace the wire in the wick. After chasing around a lot on the web, I don't think that I can find a small enough resistor that may work. I am getting tired of my AF smoke wires burning open.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> Carl Tuveson shows how to use a 27 ohm smoke element resistor in place of nichrome wire. It is on his site under "Hints& Tips", A Hybrid Smoke Element.


Thanks Amflyer! That is a good and interesting link.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The bigger question is why are your smoke elements failing. If you are operating conventional most Gilbert engines run really good at 10V, 12V max unless we want derailing speeds. A standard replacement wick and nichrome wire should last a decade with normal home layout use. It takes a lot more drops of smoke fluid to wet the wick initially than Gilbert recommended. I have used up to 25 drops. After several days of sitting idle more smoke fluid should always be added prior to running. I use 6 to 10 drops.
If the engine is operating with a DCC system with a constant 15V on the track it will burn out much faster unless more turns are used around the wick. Same for those engines converted to TMCC but with the original smoke units.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I also went to the Carl Tuveson site. I am going to agree with AmFlyer. I see no
advantage with Carl's resistor contraption. You still use a wick and you still use
nichrome wire. Might as well stay with the original wick and wire. You had me going 
there Broke. I was interested. I am over it now.

I tried twice winding my own wicks. One lasted less than 2 seconds. There was a nice brief light show, LOL.
Windings must have been touching.
The other one lasted maybe 2 months. It has stopped smoking now. The smoke was not that great to begin
with. I am going to try some store bought pre wound wicks. My northern has stopped smoking so I need
to do something.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> The bigger question is why are your smoke elements failing. If you are operating conventional most Gilbert engines run really good at 10V, 12V max unless we want derailing speeds. A standard replacement wick and nichrome wire should last a decade with normal home layout use. It takes a lot more drops of smoke fluid to wet the wick initially than Gilbert recommended. I have used up to 25 drops. After several days of sitting idle more smoke fluid should always be added prior to running. I use 6 to 10 drops.
> If the engine is operating with a DCC system with a constant 15V on the track it will burn out much faster unless more turns are used around the wick. Same for those engines converted to TMCC but with the original smoke units.


Good advice. I was frustrated after rewiring my 336 smoke unit. I had soaked and resoaked the wick and just before I was to put the boiler shell on, I tested the new can motor and Dalee unit. The smoke unit started to smoke really good. (for about 20 seconds) and then burnt out. Now I am waiting until tomorrow so I can order a couple of new wick kits and gaskets. More delays in getting my Northern up and running.:smilie_daumenneg: Ain't this fun?:hah::hah::hah:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, before you put power to your new wick and wire, Measure the ohms between
the 2 ends of the wire. A good ohm reading would be between 35 and 40 ohms. If it
is higher remove a winding or 2 and retest. Lower readings you need to put a winding or 2 back on. Readings below 35 will smoke good but not last long.

I am not sure of where to test. With wick and wire in your hands or to test with wick and wire installed. The reason I
say that is I test mine not installed. Problem is I get a different reading after installed and it is always lower. Subject
to burnout.

The wick that lasted 2 months had a reading of 20 ohms after installed.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's a 2W 27 ohm resistor that seems to be small enough for your use: 0.433" L x 0.276" W

https://www.digikey.com/product-det...-passive-product/SQMW227RJ/A137089-ND/5586019


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Here's a 2W 27 ohm resistor that seems to be small enough for your use: 0.433" L x 0.276" W
> 
> https://www.digikey.com/product-det...-passive-product/SQMW227RJ/A137089-ND/5586019


Thanks John! I will try one of these.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, I reread your last post. I did not know you got a can motor. How do you like it?


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Broke, I reread your last post. I did not know you got a can motor. How do you like it?


Runs nice and quiet on the test bench. I can't wait until I get my smoker fixed and try it on the layout. It seems to be a great improvement. I will now try to sell my Large Motor on eBay, and if I am lucky, it will more than enough cover the can and Dalee conversion.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

You should get slower speeds with the can motor. They change the gear ratio.
Half of original ratio, at least the ones I have seen. I know you like slower running. So do I.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Half speed DC can motors and DC can motors in the S.I.T. units. Looks and sounds good. Also 20 ohm smoke elements vs. 35-40 ohms. That's a lot of smoke!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Nice trains. I like the speed.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

cramden said:


> Half speed DC can motors and DC can motors in the S.I.T. units. Looks and sounds good. Also 20 ohm smoke elements vs. 35-40 ohms. That's a lot of smoke! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYhtwTCFwbA


Very nice Cramden! Good scale speed. Where did you find or what is your 20 ohm smoke element?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I thought the DC motors were the same, the worm gear is available in two different ratios. This is why the 342 engines do not have a half speed DC motor option due to their unique Worm design. I am guessing the 20 ohms is appropriate because the track voltage needed is lower with this DC configuration. The trains look really good running slower while smoking better than ever.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The can motors I have seen have a gear on motor shaft that turns a gear on the worm gear shaft. That's how they do the reduction.

They smoke good because the transformers can be turned up some and still run slower.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Very nice Cramden! Good scale speed. Where did you find or what is your 20 ohm smoke element?


These aren't mine Broke, I just found them on YouTube. I forgot that the video doesn't give you the complete page from YouTube. If you click the icon at the bottom for YouTube it will open up the complete page. The fellow has a few videos and he explains what was done to the engines. The smoke element is just wound to get 20 ohms vs. the normal 35-40 ohms. Lots of smoke and he's running between 8 and9 volts.


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## Jwh2000 (Dec 4, 2017)

Anyone know how to make a good smoke unit for a building on fire?


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