# 310 Draw bar reattach



## Old feller (Mar 30, 2012)

I am getting my feet wet in loco repair and have a 310 locomotive who's draw bar*, (at least I think that is what it is called.), has come unattached. It looks like it was mounted on two peened over posts. I could try some fancy glue or epoxy but would rather reattach it mechanically.

Is tapping and threading possible? Pretty small area to work in.
Or any other ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

* The bar in the cab that the tender ties into.


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## jackmack (Dec 12, 2012)

JB Weld should work.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

oldfeller said:


> I am getting my feet wet in loco repair and have a 310 locomotive who's draw bar*, (at least I think that is what it is called.), has come unattached. It looks like it was mounted on two peened over posts. I could try some fancy glue or epoxy but would rather reattach it mechanically.
> 
> Is tapping and threading possible? Pretty small area to work in.
> Or any other ideas would be appreciated.
> ...


JB Weld is your friend.. Or to keep it original, make a burr on the small rivets that hold the bar to the cab, and replace them.The burr will enlarge the rivet shaft ever so slightly, allowing it to grip again.


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## midlifekrisiz (Jan 29, 2013)

I had this happen about 10 yrs ago with my dads old 310 and in the long run jb weld was what I ended up using......still works great.


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## Old feller (Mar 30, 2012)

*Drawbar fix*

Thanks guys,
If JB doesn't hold forever at least I haven't eliminated the option to drill and tap. 
Thanks again.
Oldfeller


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## milwrdman (Jan 8, 2015)

*Related draw bar question*

Along the lines of what has been discussed here, I have a couple of locomotives in the K5 series that have "cab straps", or whatever the correct terminology is, under the back of the cab. The term draw bar as I understand it is the "bar" or connecting piece that connects the loco to the tender. In some cases the draw bar is directly connected to the bottom of the loco chassis. In other situations, the loco trailing truck, which I've seen mentioned as a two wheel delta truck, is fastened to the loco chassis. In that case, the draw bar is attached to the cab strap by a screw. Many cab straps have a threaded screw hole to receive the screw. I have a couple of those. 

Here's my question. On two of my locomotives I have cab straps that do not have the screw hole and instead have a square hole in the cab strap that is not set up to connect a draw bar by a screw. What is the purpose of the cab strap with the square hole? How is a draw bar attached in that situation when a delta style trailing truck is used thereby preventing the use of the chassis itself to attach the draw bar. Does the square hole mean that you can't or shouldn't try to attach the draw bar to the cab strap in that configuration? In that case the draw bar would have to be attached to the chassis and the use of a delta style trailing truck would be prohibited. Somehow that doesn't seem like it ought to be the result. We ought to be able to attach a draw bar to the cab strap wherever the cab strap exists but I can't figure out how it is done where there is a square hole. Maybe the square hole simply means that you can't attach the draw bar to the cab strap in that case but I would appreciate any light that others can shed on this question.

Thanks.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

milwrdman said:


> Along the lines of what has been discussed here, I have a couple of locomotives in the K5 series that have "cab straps", or whatever the correct terminology is, under the back of the cab. The term draw bar as I understand it is the "bar" or connecting piece that connects the loco to the tender. In some cases the draw bar is directly connected to the bottom of the loco chassis. In other situations, the loco trailing truck, which I've seen mentioned as a two wheel delta truck, is fastened to the loco chassis. In that case, the draw bar is attached to the cab strap by a screw. Many cab straps have a threaded screw hole to receive the screw. I have a couple of those.
> 
> Here's my question. On two of my locomotives I have cab straps that do not have the screw hole and instead have a square hole in the cab strap that is not set up to connect a draw bar by a screw. What is the purpose of the cab strap with the square hole? How is a draw bar attached in that situation when a delta style trailing truck is used thereby preventing the use of the chassis itself to attach the draw bar. Does the square hole mean that you can't or shouldn't try to attach the draw bar to the cab strap in that configuration? In that case the draw bar would have to be attached to the chassis and the use of a delta style trailing truck would be prohibited. Somehow that doesn't seem like it ought to be the result. We ought to be able to attach a draw bar to the cab strap wherever the cab strap exists but I can't figure out how it is done where there is a square hole. Maybe the square hole simply means that you can't attach the draw bar to the cab strap in that case but I would appreciate any light that others can shed on this question.
> 
> Thanks.


Hello, and welcome.. Exactly what number locos are we talking about?? Most of us here have many different types of locos, and we would get a better idea of what you saying..Or even, maybe a couple of pixs??? Again, welcome, and enjoy the site.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## milwrdman (Jan 8, 2015)

*Cab strap*

Hi Flyernut,

I will try to send a picture shortly. The cab straps I am asking about are both on 312 locos. The cab strap is the bar across the back of the loco cab and many locos with these straps attach a draw bar from the tender to the screw hole in the center of the strap. That allows a separate "delta" trailing truck to be attached to the chassis. I am using the names cab strap and "delta style" trailing truck because they are used for these parts in Doug Peck's Port Lines inventory. You can actually buy cab straps with these screw holes in them from Doug. Or you can make one and attach it with JB Weld as others have described here. Anyway, the two 312 locos I own have a square hole in the center of the cab strap and there is no screw hole. This raised the question of what is the purpose of the square hole, if any. And, how is a draw bar attached to these cab straps, if it's supposed to be. Perhaps with these two locos you're supposed to use a tender with a draw bar that attaches directly to the chassis (the type with the trailing truck wheels directly attached to the draw bar). Apparently you would not have the separate delta style trailing truck on these locos. One of the 312 locos came with the draw bar with the wheels that attaches to the chassis. It was not attached to the cab strap. I was hoping to attach a new draw bar on the tender to connect to the cab strap and then attach a separate delta style trailing truck on the chassis. The other 312 loco shell came by itself with that type of cab strap and I don't know how it originally was configured with a tender when the loco was complete. Perhaps I can replace the cab strap with the type that has the screw hole. I've held off on that though because I hate to start making irrevocable changes until I know what I'm doing (which frequently is not the case -  - so I'm learning as I go). Or I could just use the traditional draw bar with the trailing truck wheels and let it go at that. Anyway, I just wanted to know what others know about this type of cab strap from a historical point of view as well as a functional one. Does it have any purpose or is it purely decorative? And is there a way to attach a draw bar directly to it without replacing it? Thanks in advance for any information about this type of cab strap. I'll attach a picture as soon as I can figure out how to upload it to this board. Tom


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## milwrdman (Jan 8, 2015)

*Cab strap photo*

Here is the cab strap with the square hole.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I can only surmise the square hole was done at stamping??... And I thought this would be easy....I have 2 312's. 1 is 312AC, and the other is a 312.. As seen in the pictures, both drawbars attach to the cab strap, but with different type screws.The one screw is the type you would use for a under the chassis screw, a large shoulder screw, such as for a Atlantic.The second 312's screw looks like it should be the correct one, a shorter shoulder screw. Bear in mind that longer screw is called a truck stud, and is used in many steam locos.... Now, here we go.... The 312 was made in 1946 through 1952.The early 312's used a draw bar such as one for a Atlantic in '47, '48, '50,'51, and '52....In 1946 a bent drawbar was used, also in '46. So depending on the year engine you have, different draw bars and attachment points would be used.. Isn't this fun???? Tender shells would all be the same, but with different lettering on the '46 job.


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## milwrdman (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi again Flyernut,

Thanks for the response and information. I certainly agree that the square hole looks like something that was stamped. It was probably used when it was not anticipated that a draw bar was to be attached. As you said, the old style draw bar attaching to the chassis was used. The 310 I have, which I think is an earlier vintage K5 loco, doesn't even have the cab strap and the drawbar attaches to the chassis. One of my other 312s does have the strap with the bent draw bar attached using a short stud or shoulder screw, as shown in your photos. My guess is that the cab strap with the square hole had no functional purpose, although I wonder why Flyer even bothered to install it if it was nonfunctional because it would seem to have been an additional unnecessary expense and aesthetically the cab strap doesn't really add anything. I really like the two wheel delta trailing truck and the tender attaching to the cab strap. The nicer two wheel delta style trailing truck configuration also appears on the 293 Pacific loco. The Northerns with the four wheel trailing truck, such as my K335, also use the cab strap to attach the bent draw bar, although for Northerns the draw bar is a longer one than used on the K5 tenders. My main interest was to figure out what purpose, if any, the cab strap with the square hole had. If anyone knows, I'd like to learn more about it. This is a somewhat trivial issue but its still an interesting bit of Flyer history to figure out the background for the changes in these trailing truck and draw bar arrangements.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I believe the square hole was placed for an insert to be pressed or otherwise fastened to the drawbar. This insert was threaded internally to accept a PA4938 or PA4939 shoulder screw to attach the tender link. A threaded insert should be added to your drawbar so that it becomes functional for this purpose.


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## milwrdman (Jan 8, 2015)

*Draw bar question*

Hi Don, thanks for the additional information about the square hole. Do you know where the inserts for the square hole are available? I know Doug Peck sells the entire cab strap with the hole for the screw already installed. However, if an insert is available for the existing cab strap square hole that would be preferable to replacing the entire strap in order to attach a draw bar from the tender. Tom


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

I doubt if anybody sells those seperately since the whole bar with the insert is releatively
low cost. The only place to buy them would be e-bay under A/F parts. There are always things like this that come up for sale. Larry


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## milwrdman (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi Larry, thanks for the suggestion. My thought had been to complete the existing strap so as to avoid having to remove the old one. You're probably right that it's more efficient just to replace the strap. Tom


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