# Booster or short



## riogrande51 (Aug 24, 2012)

I Have a 12x12 DCC HO Layout in which I have two main tracks around in a bent dog-bone with a reverse loop on one end.

I usually run three to four trans with as many as eight Loco mued together in groups of two to four so sound some not but as many as four sound at one time

I have a Zephyr with 2.5 Amps I first through I need a booster but now not sure.

I have found that if I take one certain loco off the track I don't have this problem only once in a while. 

The problems is this:

It is a Atlas GP 40 no sound it makes my Zephyr stop and go when I have six to seven loco on at one time with "o" going across the zephyr led as I try to start the trains.I have two other loco exactly the same no problem.

The other loco is a Broadway Limited sd 40-2 with sound which I have to of them if I remove one from the track it stops making the zero stop on mt Zephyr and the trains will start without stopping and going. Even if I have more loco as many as eight with as many as five with sound the trains will start with these two loco off the track. I through I needed a Booster but now not sure maybe something wrong with these two loco's anybody have any ideas what could be going wrong with the system or Loco's??

I have set both loco's back to default DCC settings didn't change hwell:


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## wc3026 (Aug 20, 2012)

I have 3.5 amps going to a 10x10 then to a 1x30 with a huge loop. they are coneceted together I and I dont have any issues


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

Sounds like not enough power to me. If you buy a booster now you'll never have the problem again and you won't have to be choosy about what you can and can't run... Unless you put some serious power hoggin locos on the track that is. I reckon you did good getting 8 locos running off the stock power pack :thumbsup:


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

This is a point I'd like opinions on.To my understanding,a booster adds power potential to a layout but it seems that many don't understand the way I do.I've even once read that a gentleman had added three eight amps booster to his DCS200 eight amps command station and was claiming he had a thirty-two amps system.

To my knowledge,this is still an eight amps system.Huge power indeed but still there's nowhere on the layout that more than eight amps are available.That brings to my understanding of the present case...the OP has a 2.5 amps Zephyr wich is indeed getting somewhat overloaded at times.If he adds a five amps booster,he will indeed have more than sufficient power for what he's doing when his locos are on the layout part that's powered by the booster.But,if by some rare hazard,his locos happen to all be in the Zephyr's section of the layout,he'll still have the problem.At least,it's my understanding.....

That's also my objectionable opinion but there should never be such power (5 & 8 amps)available to any single point on a layout for safety.I'm planning on breaking down my DCS200 power into four sections (PM42) of not more than about two amps each.Eight amps can fry a decoder and a loco's guts in no time before its breaker trips off...I've seen it.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Jake, I understand your point. I don't have enough experience with dcc to say if you are right or wrong. I haven't seen Sean around much lately but I bet he could enlighten us.
He runs 3 or 4 boosters. Here is the plan I have for my new layout. I think it goes along with your point. First I don't know if size of layout has much to do with how many amps you need. Maybe more so in how many engines are run at once. I am planning an around the walls layout. 2 seperate railroads, each with a double main. So 4 mains. I have a 
DCS200 also. So 8 amps. I want to get another 8 amp booster and put a pm42 off each.
Going along with your point I should have 4 amps on each main. Each main will be a section. I want more than 2 amps per section. 2 reasons. I might run 6 or so engines on a main. 2 amps might not be enough. My engines are older and probably draw more amps. I also think that when maxing out a command station or booster you are generating more heat to each than if they were just cruising
along with no strain. I run 1 engine right now on 8 amps and the heat fins on back of station does not even get warm. Heat is not good for electronic equipment.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Many have the "more is better" policy,not that much so in electrical circuits.Indeed a lot of power can be handy but also proportionally dangerous if something goes wrong.Decoders are expensive (sound ones even more so),so I don't mind having an occasional shortage of current to protect them.There's no 100% fail-proof solution but I stand a better chance to get away with a short if some device trips off sooner.Eight amps is circuit melting power.

I've tested my HO Kato SD40-2 and the highest reading I could have by "braking" it was 0.4 amps,so two amps shut-down barrier can do quite enough for me,even more so since I'll run N scale engines on my home layout.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have always had the "more is better" mentality. Goes back to my drag racing days.
It was my understanding that the pm42 was a great short protection. And that short protection was adjustable on them. I need to test some of my locos to see what draw is on them. I guess a dead short would draw every bit of amps availible. I also thought most decoders were good for 1 or 1 1/2 amps. My point being 2 amps might fry. Yes, shorts are bad. I have had the station shut down when engine derailed and shorted.
No damage yet. Scared me though. If power shuts down quick enough maybe no damage. I do know guys have fried decoders. Yes they are expensive. More than my engines cost. I have a tsunami (100 bucks for decoder and speaker) in a $30.00 athearn
blue box. No, I do not want to fry it.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Your understanding is correct...the PM42 can be used for either short protection or polarity reversing.It has four sections that are all adjustable independently from eachother.Let's say you make your yard a section and know you'll never need high current there,then you can adjust this section to minimum while pushing more electrical potential to other sections.Your command station supplies the power,the PM42 manages it according to your needs/settings.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

As I understand it, you wouldwant boosters, but only in a large layout setting, so that you can avoid power dropping in the further reaches of the layout, and also to run accessories like switch machines.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I was already planning on 2 pm42s for the layout. Hate to spend the money for them after paying alot for the dcc system. Felt the same way about having to buy a program booster. 2 pm42s would give me 8 sections. 4 would be used up by 4 mains. I do not plan on a turntable. I am going to try to do a 'Y' on one railroad and a reverse loop on the other to turn engines. Thats 6 sections used and would leave 2 for whatever. Like you said maybe 1 for a yard.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

rrgrassi said:


> As I understand it, you wouldwant boosters, but only in a large layout setting, so that you can avoid power dropping in the further reaches of the layout, and also to run accessories like switch machines.


I think boosters are needed to run more trains. Use the right bus wiring and there shouldn't be any voltage dropping just because of length.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

OK...not exactly like that...boosters are for powering trains (track power only) and not for turnouts or other devices.Though they can be used for this,they're not meant for compensating power drops on large layouts...good quality wiring (proper gauge and sufficient feeders) takes care of that beautifully.

Boosters are for adding power when the amount of trains operated exceeds what the command station can supply,whatever the layout size.Let's say you have a five amps command station (DCS100),it will easily power 10 or more HO locos without a sweat,maybe a couple less for sounders.For a lone operator,generally five amps is more than needed,in fact the Zephyr (2.5 amps) gets the job done for most.The DCS200 (8 amps) is what I call "club size" power.

The use of a PM42 on the other hand has its benefits...protecting the locos/decoders by limiting the current to a lower level...not for protecting the command station since it has a built-in short protection.By lowering the current with the PM42,it will likely trip before any dammage occurs to the loco and/or decoder.The other use of the PM42 is that if a short occurs in one section,only this section gets cut off so it's much easier to locate the problem.

Many layouts aren't separated into sections as they're too small for justifying the investment but for moderate to large size layouts can benefit with a PM42.However,I wouldn't use a PM42 for reversing a loop,an AR1 is much less expensive and works great.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Cool! Thanks for the info! 

I do not have my layout done yet...still closing out the garage.

I do sell stuff once a month at the local 3rd Monday Trade days. My HO board is a 4'x6' that is broken down into 4 2'x3' sections. Each section gets power from underneath and a power distribution block. All wires to the track are equal length. This does give me the opportunity to run my DCC stuff and the DC stuff I have for sale. The board does not use connector tracks between the sections.

Doing this lets me buy more stuff for me (DCC) and get kids introduced to the hobby. What started as a way to get out of N scale and back to HO now has a following, so I buy old stuff no one wants, fix it up, cobble together a running set and sell it. I sell N, HO and O Lionel type and Atlass two rail O.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Mopac...got an idea for you.You seem to be worried that might run short of power and indeed,another eight amps booster plus another PM42 do add up pretty quick.This got me thinking about your planned setup.

What if you buy a Zephyr Extra instead (about the price of a booster or a DT400 throttle) and make it your command station.It has all the functions of your DCS200 and at three amps output,you wouldn't need an extra PM42 to control its output.So the Zephyr becomes one section .

Then you could re-configure your DCS 200 into an eight amps booster and run its power through a PM42 to make it four sections like you're already planning on doing.

The end result....
-You invest about the price of a booster (that you already had in mind)
-You save the cost of a second PM42.
-That gives you five sections instead of eight.
-You get an extra throttle,possible two more with good quality DC throttles you may have.
-And should the Zephyr ever fail,you can re-configure your DCS 200 to command station status in five minutes,so you're not stuck.

Not that you save that much (a PM42's price),but the extra throttle is good to have.


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## waltr (Aug 15, 2011)

You are correct Brakeman, when adding a booster you split the layout into two sections, the original Command station output and the booster output. Each section has the power of the device that drives it (~3A for Zephyr, & 5 or 8A for the booster). 
You are also correct that if all the locos (as in the OPs case) are in the Zephyr's section (power district) and they exceed the current available (~3A) from the Zephyr then it will sensor over-load.


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