# Scales and Gauges and Curves Oh My



## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

Good Evening Everyone, 
I'm brand new to the model train world and I'm slowly starting to wrap my head around everything. The one area where I keep finding conflicting information is the scales and gauges of track. I know that I want to use N scale for my table, but I'm having trouble finding the difference between gauges, codes, and sizes. Any one know.the differences or have a good information source on the differences? 
I'm also gathering information on helixs from the forums and I found S-8 on the NMRAs website regarding curves. I'm having problems understanding what all of it means. With the tangents and degrees and multiple radius's its kinda complicated reading it. Does anyone have any tips or tricks to reading it? Maybe a decoder ring?  I would love to find some dimensional data on N scale track (the engineer in me) so that I can lay it all out in modeling software and see what I end up with. Any nudge in the direction of a good information source is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

psychotrshman said:


> Good Evening Everyone,
> I'm brand new to the model train world and I'm slowly starting to wrap my head around everything. The one area where I keep finding conflicting information is the scales and gauges of track. I know that I want to use N scale for my table, but I'm having trouble finding the difference between gauges, codes, and sizes. Any one know.the differences or have a good information source on the differences?


Scales and gauges are very different but some folks use the terms interchangeably. The scale is the size of the model; such as G scale is 1:22 and HO scale is 1:87. Gauge has to do with the track width of the real thing; standard gauge is 4' 8.5" between the rail heads and narrow gauge is anything less than that, typically 3.5'. The track code indicates the rail height on the model track measured in hundreths of an inch; a Code 100 track has a .100" high rail.



psychotrshman said:


> I'm also gathering information on helixs from the forums and I found S-8 on the NMRAs website regarding curves. I'm having problems understanding what all of it means. With the tangents and degrees and multiple radius's its kinda complicated reading it. Does anyone have any tips or tricks to reading it? Maybe a decoder ring?  I would love to find some dimensional data on N scale track (the engineer in me) so that I can lay it all out in modeling software and see what I end up with. Any nudge in the direction of a good information source is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help.


This I may not be as much help with as I deal mostly with HO scale, but using the information you gave in another thread, I may be able to calculate a solution and post up sometime this week. I just dont have any hard data for you right this minute.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

http://www.building-your-model-railroad.com/

Here's a link to a website that helped me out alot when I first came back into the hobby.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Psycho,

This might help, too ...

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/pdf/S-1.2 2009.07.pdf

TJ


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## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

I found the below website while searching the internet wilderness. Appears full of useful dimensions. Hope it helps others. 

http://urbaneagle.com/data/RRstddims.html


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

It all depends on wich model locomotives and rolling stocks you wish to run.Most if not all modelers have to deal with limited spaces so have to use much tighter curve radiuses than the prototype railways do.There can't be a too large radius curve,there can only be too tight ones.
I've installed only two makes of trackwork (Atlas and Peco) so far,so I can't comment other brands.However,I'll try to be of help to you just the same.Let's say you want to go with pre-curved sectional trackage,then your option is Atlas code 80 track;they make them in 9 3/4,11 and 19 in. radiuses.These are fine,easy to install and dependable.Their down side is the tight choice of turnouts,Snapswitches being the only ones that I know of.
Then you have Atlas code 55...they look great...but I can't tell you more since I've never installed any of these.However,they are highly popular,likely for a good reason.
I have worked with Peco code 80 on the club's layout and they are very good.These are flextrack only so you can design any curve radiuses with them as long as these aren't too tight (10+ in.).Peco's biggest advantage is their choice of turnouts as they come in small(12 in.),medium (18 in.) and large (36 in.) in their straight version.Then you can have curved turnouts (18 and 36 in.rad.),wyes and double crossovers.
Peco's code 80 turnouts can be found in both "Insulfrog" and "Electrofrog" versions.I will not do an in depth analysis here,but both are fine.Electrofrog do have a technical edge over the Insulfrog type,but it will show only if you plan on running very short engines.

My personal choice is Peco's code 55 trackage.In fact,these are code 80 tracks imbedded deeper in the ties to show somewhat like real code 55 (sort of a cheat) so that any rolling stock can be used on them.This makes for a slightly stiffer flextrack to work with during installation but it's not a problem anyway.Their main advantage is the very wide choice of turnouts:small,medium and large like code 80.Also,they have curved turnouts,wyes,single and double slip turnouts and double crossovers.However,only Electrofrog types are available in C55.Their down side...the cost...they're not the cheapest option but in my mind,they're the best.
By the way,Peco's tracks aren't popular with some purists as their tie spacing and looks are based on european prototype tracks,but if this doesn't bother you....

Track codes...these numbers represent the height of the rail and are important as to wether witch locomotives and rolling stock you want to use.Older equipment,I'd say made before 2000,had large wheel flanges (called pizza cutter flanges) that will likely hit the ties if the rail isn't high enough.On top of causing unpleasant noises,it raises the wheels off the track head,thus cutting electrical contact.While replacing car wheels is relatively easy to do,such isn't the case with locos.Lately (meaning a few years back),manufacturers have worked on more prototypical looks so have installed wheels with smaller flanges on locos and cars so that they can be used on lower profiled tracks (code 55).Code 80 track allows anything to go while code 55 is different.It is a known fact that high flanges hit the ties on Atlas C55 while this is where Peco's C55 shines...being a C80 disguised as C55,it allows any loco to run on them.However,Atlas C55 is looking more prototypical and is a great option if you use only modern equipment.Hoping this helps..........

I forgot to say in the previous post...curve radiuses are dependent on what models you wish to use so there it is...
Four axle diesels and small steamers (4-4-0,2-6-0,0-6-0) will be quite happy with the tighter radiuses like 9 3/4 in. and won't look too weird doing it.
Six axle diesels and small eight driver steamers (0-8-0,2-8-0) can possibly use 9 3/4 in. but will be much better on 11+ in. radiuses.
Medium sized eight driver steamers (2-8-2,2-8-4,4-8-2) usually require 12 in. curves to look right.
Then you have the bigger steamers like the heavy 4-8-2,4-8-4 Northern and the articulated locomotives that will demand large 15+ in. curves.Some will run on tighter curves but will definitely look awkward doing it.


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## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

Brakeman Jake said:


> Four axle diesels and small steamers (4-4-0,2-6-0,0-6-0) will be quite happy with the tighter radiuses like 9 3/4 in. and won't look too weird doing it.
> Six axle diesels and small eight driver steamers (0-8-0,2-8-0) can possibly use 9 3/4 in. but will be much better on 11+ in. radiuses.
> Medium sized eight driver steamers (2-8-2,2-8-4,4-8-2) usually require 12 in. curves to look right.




What do all the numbers mean? I've been seeing them in various places when researching curves and helixs. Also, what is a flex track? How is it different to the straight 18 inch pieces of track and the set radius track that I see for sale most often? is it harder / easier to use? Thanks for all the great information everyone.


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## haphall (Feb 1, 2011)

The first set of numbers refer to the Pilot wheels. The ones in front of the boiler for the most part, or right behind the 'cow catcher.' There are usually none or two or four wheels, thus the first number. The main drivers sit beneath the boiler and sometimes include a second set of wheels stuck in there for additional pulling power. They can consist of two wheels for really old locos, four wheels, etc. up to 10. The last are the cab wheels and they sit right below where the engineer and the fireman hang out. Thus three numbers... 2-8-0, 4-4-0, etc. The massive locos have an additional set of numbers, ie. 2-8-8-0, etc. Just count 'em. Group the same size. Got it.
So, more wheels = longer locomotives = a need for larger curves. Short locos = tighter curves, smaller radius.
~Hap


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## haphall (Feb 1, 2011)

Psycho, took me awhile to figure that designation out too. I'm just thrilled someone asked a question I actually sorta know the answer to.
~Hap


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

"Flextrack" are lengths of track meant to be cut and bent to suit any particular situation.It allows the modeler to obtain any curve radius that otherwise aren't available in sectional track.They come in lengths of 29 in. from Atlas and 36 in. from Peco.
I personally use only flextrack,they are a little more work to fit but eliminate a lot of track joints.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I apologize if I puzzled you a bit on a previous post with the steamer designation.To know more about them,you could do a Google search on "Whyte system",where they have a deeper information on the subject.If you stick with the hobby,you'll find out that there is a lot to be learned,wich does make this hobby so exciting.Just don't try to learn everything at the same time or you'll become so mixed up and likely be discouraged.
It's been my interest for a few years now and I'm still learning every day and I'm perfectly aware that I'll never know everything.......too many different interests within it.To each his own.....


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## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks again for the help and quick responses. I'm trying to learn just enough at the start to make as few mistakes as possible. I don't want to have to redo alot of work because I made a really basic mistake. I've been researching for about a full week now and I've definitely learned that its a hobby with many different aspects. I'm focused right now on the ones that apply to the whole hobby in general. I've found a scale, track clearances, how to build the "Kingdom" around the train, and alot more starting points. I appreciate all the help I've gotten from the community here. Its been a huge help. Thanks again to everyone, and if you think of something else that I might need to know before starting, feel free to let me know. Until next time, the research continues.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I can see that you are still in the preliminary phase,the planning phase in other words,and this is the most critical part of your layout creation.You wish to avoid errors and have to occasionally rebuild parts of it...I don't wish to turn your sun off but you will eventually redo things that you found out that you don't like so much after a while.It's all perfectly normal as it is part of this great hobby.
However,careful planning will help reduce these occurances greatly but for this to happen,decisions have to be made right from the start.Based on my own limited experience,I allow myself to a few suggestions....

First,determine what space you have available.This is,in my opinion,the most crucial criteria determining the design of a layout.A few questions do pop up here like...
1)Do you plan on moving some day?Even if you own your home,if you should sell some time in the future,will the layout be moveable?If small not much of a problem,but if big,it may be a good idea to build in assembled modules.It would also be a good idea to have a design that could eventually fit in a standard sized room.Personally,I don't own my home and it's been a major criteria in designing my layout plan.
2)If you are to use a part of,let's say your basement,take into account possible plumbing repairs (or other repairs).Would the layout have to be moved?You say in a previous post that you are using a table so it's probably not a problem for you but if you want to expand some time in the future,you may have to consider this.And even then,can your benchwork (table) go through a standard doorway?
3)For most people,30 inches is about the farthest one can work on the layout comfortably.Will you be able to go around your table to build scenery or else?If backed to a wall,you may have to lean on it occasionally,so solidity becomes a serious issue.If your table is strong,then great,but if not it would be better to build a solid benchwork right away or have someone do it for you if you don't have the tooling.
4)Train layouts don't require a full shop of tools to achieve,but the more you have the better you are.Exacto knives,screwdrivers and pliers are a must I'd say but a few tools like a jigsaw,drill and bits and other carpenter tools are quite handy.

Now that you have your benchwork,it's time to start designing your track plan.This can be quite easy or a real pain depending on your goals vs the available space you have.Fortunately,if you search the web under "model train layouts",you will find a wealth of very nicely designed layout plans and if you're lucky,you'll find one that will suit you just great with little if any modifications.However,if you have specific needs (or goals),designing a layout can be time consuming and,I admit,frustrating.
I will limit my comments to this for the moment,but if you do have other questions,please ask away.There are plenty of modelers who'll be glad to help.


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## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

In all my efforts to learn about the train side of the hobby, I completely failed to take into consideration the size of the table and future endeavors. I was going to build it on a 4 x 8 table and just call it good, but when we go to move in a few years, the table would be stuck in the basement. Thank you for bringing this to my attention now so that I can adjust to compensate for that. 

I'm currently looking at doing an L shaped table using two 2x8 sections, an x shaped table using one 2x8 section and then two removable 2x4 sections or a 4x8 table made from two 2x8 sections put together side by side with a mountain going down the center that can be cut in two and used to "hide" the seam of the tables. I'll be sure to post my intended design before I start actually building things to get plausibility thoughts from everyone. Thanks again for reminding me that when it comes to doorways, size does matter. Enojy the evening everyone.


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