# Tightening up Trolley Drive Gear



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

Hi everyone - second post after my intro post!

I'm getting my father-in-law's Lionel #60 trolley up and running again after a 20 year parking spell. It went from completely dead to moving pretty steadily on the track but I'm aiming to tighten it up completely. 

Upon disassembly, I noticed that the main drive gear that is on the wheel axle has significant side to side play in it. Meaning the axle can shift from left to right - the gear itself is nice and tight on the axle shaft. But this side to side play is allowing the drive gear to drift away from the worm gear on the bottom of the armature. Even with a decent amount of great it is just barely engaging and moving the trolley. I know they are notorious for being extremely loud trolleys, but I'm sure the extra play between the two gears isn't helping anything.

Is there any way to limit the side to side play in the axle shaft? There is a slight gap between the inside of the wheels and the gearbox housing, but it seems that both of the wheels are pressed all the way onto the axle shafts - enough that the axle shaft is nice and flush with the outside of the wheels. I think that if I could capture the axle shaft a little more securely it would prevent the drive gear from drifting away from the armature's worm gear and in turn help the trolley move along more smoothly and maybe even more quietly!

Any thoughts or remedies?


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

Here are a few pictures to help describe what I am referring too.

You can see the drive gear here - it's positioned to the bottom of the slot in the housing.










And then here you can see the drive gear positioned to the top of the slot in the housing - all you have to do is nudge the axle shaft one way or another to make this happen.










Here's the axle shaft in the wheel - all the way through and flush with the outside of the wheel.










And here's the worm gear that engages to the drive gear on the axle shaft. The worm gear can't move in any direction as it is held captive at the bottom of the armature by the white plastic washer seen to the right of the drive gear and the top is held in place by the housing that holds the brushes and ball bearing.


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

Can the metal wheels be removed from the axle shaft? Could a small shim (i.e. washer or bushing) be installed between the back of the wheel and the outside of the housing on one side or the other (or both) to help the gear stay oriented to the center of the worm gear? I guess I just want to find a way to keep them meshing properly.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Guadna,

A couple of thoughts ...

First, you should check the wheel gauge on that axle/wheelset. It may be that the wheels have spread apart from each other a bit, thereby allowing the axle/gear to float side-to-side. Proper wheel gauge should be 1.25", referenced to where the rolling part of the wheels sits on the crown of the track rail. That will yield an inside-of-wheel-flange to inside-of-wheel-flange dimension of about 1".

Grab one wheel (on a common axle) in each hand. GENTLY twist one clockwise, and the other counterclockwise. You may find some play here. If so, repeat the procedure, alternating your twisting direction, while applying some gentle inwards pressure ... you may be able to compress the wheels closer together (if the gauge was too wide to begin with).

Separate from that, you should read this thread. A couple of our members had great success making some gear shims out of loaf of bread plastic ties. This concept might offer an easy fix on your end ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=62879

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I had a similar issue with a new Legacy SD-80, I solved it with plastic bread closures. I got the idea from T-Man, here's the thread: Axle Spacers?

Here's the raw materials, read the thread to see all the dirty details.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Rats, I see that TJ beat me to it. However, since it's my loco that we were working on, I feel compelled to leave the post.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

With an atta' boy notch in T-Man's belt, too! :thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> With an atta' boy notch in T-Man's belt, too! :thumbsup:


Credit where credit is due.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Is that wire burnt? 
It looks like something got hot?

I would clean all the heavy grease off and give it our servoguys 5/20 oil lube job instead. 
Just a few well placed drops will keep it lubed for a long time.


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks for the replies everyone.

tjcruiser and gunrunnerjohn - thanks for the link. I copied that method and it seems to have tightened up the play quite nicely. I wasn't able to snug down the wheels on the axle shaft though...so hopefully the plastic shim will do the trick.

Here's the shim I made from the bread bag clip










Here's a shot of it installed; between this one and the one on the other side they worked great to orient the drive gear - thanks!!!










big ed - nope, no burnt wires. I tried it out earlier on a friend's track and it worked...just a little sketchy with the gearing. My father-in-law lives in Pennsylvania as does the trolley's track. I stole it to get it working again for him as a surprise this Christmas. Other than really cleaning the top of the armature and lubing the wheels well it ran right away. Heck, even the original light bulb worked great 

After getting back from trying it out at my friend's house I pulled it all apart for a good cleaning and inspection. I fixed the play in the axle shaft, lubed all the gears, cleaned the armature, flattened the contact surfaces on the brushes, cleaned up all the contact points so everything will work correctly, and then put it all back together. I used a green Scotchbrite pad on all the contacts to get them nice and bright, Mobil 1 synthetic grease for all the gears, the reversing slide channels, and the 180º reversing antenna shaft, and Royal Purple 5W30 for the axle shafts and the ball bearing atop the armature shaft. Hopefully that'll do the trick.

Here are some pictures that I took a little while ago in the garage after taking care of the axle shaft issue.

Here's most of it torn down.










Here's a shot of it reassembled.










Another shot of it put back together.










I disassembled the two-piece bumpers, removed the slide, cleaned 50+ years of gunk, and then greased and reassembled.










A shot of the bottom after putting it back together. One wheel wobbled a little too but some careful nervous tweaking and now it spins nice and true.










Here's what the trolley looks like - I'll be carefully cleaning it up tomorrow before reinstalling it on the innards. Have to call it a night in the garage - football's about to start!!!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That looks like a healthy tuneup! Be careful with too much grease ... over time, it may dry out / clog up. A few of here have been going greaseless, instead using just 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil.

That's nice that you "stole" the trolley to get it running for your dad-in-law ... I'll bet he'll be delighted to see it running again.

I'm thrilled that the T-Man / Gunrunnerjohn bread bag tie tricked worked out well. Nice "washer" trimdown job. The ol' "necessity is the Mother of invention" thing! You can send your royalty checks to them via PM messages ... just $19.99 for a good trick like that! 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

TJ


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks TJ. I really did steal it too. He has no idea that my mother-in-law swiped it and shipped it to me. I'm going to wrap it all up and "regift" it to him over Thanksgiving weekend - just in time to get the track all cleaned up in time for their annual Christmas party. His track is on a 8" deep shelf about 6' up the wall and makes a horseshoe around the bar in their basement.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm glad the bread ties worked, your cleanup looks great.  

For cleaning up the plastic shell, my method is Dawn dishwashing liquid and a soft sponge, I've never had any damage that way.


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, I'll try it this morning.


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

The Dawn dish soap worked like a champ for the roof and the outside of the shell. The inside is still a little grimy even after scrubbing it a few times. Good thing the windows block most of the inside view 










Next issue - dirty/damaged windows. I've soaked and cleaned the windows 3x now and still can't get the smear of grease from the inside. On top of that one of the side windows was cracked when I got my hands on the trolley. Even after repairing it the damage is still pretty visible. Is there a vendor that sells replacements? If not I'm okay with just reinstalling them since regardless it's a sight better looking overall than it was when I first started.

Side window - stain that won't come off.









Here's the other side window - stained and the repair is visible.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ask and you shall receive. 



> 60-51 trolley window silhouetted 1.25
> 60-52 trolley end window plain 0.50


The Train Tender has these, as well as other vendors I'm sure.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

You can use denatured alcohol or rubbing alcohol on the insides to take off any remaining grease, avoid getting it on the outsides as it might leave a haze.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

There is more grease on that trolley, then on my trucks fifth-wheel.:laugh:


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

No worries. I cleaned all that old gunked grease off and lightly lubed it before reassembly. 

It doesn't look like Train Tenders can get the new windows to me in time, but I did find a hobby shop in NJ that can ship me a repro cardboard box by Saturday. That should be a great way to wrap it up before I give it back to him!

I already have a box of green 3M scuff pads, spray bottle of Simple Green degreaser, a bottle of denatured alcohol, a half dozen old white tee shirt rags, and my multimeter all packed for prepping the track


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you could always retrofit the windows later to "finish" the job.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Try some GooGone, applied with Q-tips. Test a small area, first, but the GooGone might help remove the stain.

Also, GooGone is a great general-purpose "degunker" on most Lionel train parts.


Cheers,

TJ


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

I found a model train store up in New Jersey that is hooking me up. With luck I'll have new window panels, an antenna, and reproduction box to pack it all up in. Awesome!!!

East Coast Train Parts from Englishtown, New Jersey


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The "antenna" is really the trolley pole that in real trolleys connects to the catenary, which is the overhead power lines that power the trolley. Obviously, this one looks more like an antenna, since it doesn't have the capability to use overhead power.


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

I know, my bad - sorry for using the wrong nomenclature. My mother-in-law says she remembers it having the trolley pole at one point but hasn't seen it in years. The hobby shop only wanted 75¢ to throw it in the order. I'm not even certain there is room for it to rotate when the trolley hits the bumpers since the shelf looked to be only about 8" deep. If clearance is an issue I may even shorten it an inch or two to allow it to work.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The trolley pole has a plastic holder that frequently gets broken and allows the pole to get lost, make sure you don't need one of those as well.  The pole is pretty short, and you could probably put it on with the orientation so that it rotates out into free space and not toward the wall.


----------



## quadna71 (Nov 12, 2011)

The plastic holder is still in great shape and flips around perfectly. I was a little nervous when I first was removing it to disassemble everything though. I know that old plastics have a tendency to crack under pressure and until I finally pulled it straight off the squared shaft I really didn't know if there was a trick to removing it. 

You can see it in this picture I took last night after reassembling everything.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For correctness, the trolley pole should be pointing away from the direction of travel.  It looks like a new unit, nice cleanup job. :thumbsup:


----------

