# CW80 transformer screw driver



## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm told the Lionel CW80 uses a triangle shaped screw so you have to send the transformer in for a fuse replacement. Not having a circuit breaker that can be often.

Dose anyone know what kind of screw driver it takes or where I can find one.
I'm not going to ship that thing to the east coast every time the train derails.
Or it pulls to meany cars. 

I have heard terrible CW80 story's in the reviews. 
People hate this transformer and it would seem Lionel has not made any changes to it,in spite of such a high failure rate.
Some reviews says it struggles to pull 4 cars and that the sign wave is like saw teeth.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

goraman said:


> I'm told the Lionel CW80 uses a triangle shaped screw so you have to send the transformer in for a fuse replacement.


While I'm not sure about your particular situation, , you probably could use a kit like this -

32 Piece 3" Long Reach Security Bit Set










http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-3-inch-long-reach-security-bit-set-95680.html

You can probably find them at other stores as well.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

Nice bit set ,vandal proof torx,allens,spanners ect.. but I don't see a triangle bit.
Maybe I'll unbox the transformer and look at it ,then make a trip to Harbor freight.

I once got a fantastic clone of a Fluke meter there.
They where forced to change it as it was an exact clone,so I was told by the girl working there, so I got it on close out.
I checked the calibration with my brothers $800.00 Fluke and it is dead on 15 or more years ago $20.00! and I'm still using it.
They do make good stuff at a very good price.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

goraman said:


> Nice bit set ,vandal proof torx,allens,spanners ect.. but I don't see a triangle bit.


I see at least 2, maybe 3 - second row from the top

EDIT: I might be confusing your description...


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## jreid (May 9, 2011)

If you ever remove the screws replace them with something more common, maybe even cut a slot in the triangle ones to get them out to start with.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Would you be able to use an easy out and replace the screws?
I will have to look at mine.


I have 2 of them and knock on wood never had a problem with them.
Now I am using a ZW and the 80's are going to power accessories.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

OK I researched triangle screw, still, are you sure the 3-bladed "philips" type security bit won't work to remove it? There's at least 2 in the kit.

Or, scroll down this page a little -

*Triangle Power Bits*

http://www.mcmaster.com/#triangle-screwdriver-bits/=e0naw5


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

I am going to unpack the transformer,I'll be back.
I am going on the description from complaints in reviews.
I have not opened Conners set yet, Will Be right Back.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

It is clearly a triangle shaped hole, I will look through my gun smiting bits,I seem to remember Remington using a smiler bit for shot gun but pads during the 90's.

It is truly an odd duck, Way to go Lionel.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

xrunner said:


> OK I researched triangle screw, still, are you sure the 3-bladed "philips" type security bit won't work to remove it? There's at least 2 in the kit.



Always heard them called Tri-wings.

like xrunner said, you need something different.

I think what is need here is a TP3 bit instead (the most common used size)

http://www.amazon.com/Silverhill-ASD3T-Triangle-Head-Screwdriver/dp/B001F3FUBK

It is not a perfect triangle but has small bumps on each side. 

Pookybear


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Take an old Phillips head screwdriver, step over to your grinder (with some water to keep it cool), and shape it into the triangle bit, job done.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

pookybear said:


> Always heard them called Tri-wings.
> 
> like xrunner said, you need something different.
> 
> ...


Thank you,this is it,BTW Remington used a square bit,and I thought that was odd.
I went through all my drivers and bits and found nothing like what you found.
What an odd duck indeed,I will order one immediately. Thank you!


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## DRW_B302 (Jan 24, 2011)

*CW80 screwdriver*

A Wera Tri Wing #2 #375 2/80 028120 screwdriver will fit the screws on a CW80, it was purchased at a local tool store. The security bit sets are usually to big in cross section or not long enough to reach the screw head.

DRW


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

I decided to get a fuse holder and some 5 amp fast blow glass fuses.
A 5 amp fuse at the transformer output should keep me from blowing the internal fuse.
When that dose happen I'll get a better transformer but at least it shouldn't happen right away ruining his Christmas.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It would be nice to have a driver. It would be more practical than a bit. Amazon lists one for a Nintendo for 99 cents. I don't know if it is the right size.

This is the set I have. A red box full of bits found at Kobeys FLea Market in San Diego. They are hard ot find just like a small precision nutdriver und 1/8 th of an inch.

They are not a triangular slot. I use them to remove the LEDs from McD toys. The same screw on the 3 inch Gi JOE action figures.

I had no luck with the grinder that is why I got the set.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

A bit will just slide down the hole but a bit driver is to big around so only a driver will work.
I really don't want to mess with it as it would void the warranty so till that's up I'll just add a 5 amp fast blow fuse in line.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

DRW_B302 said:


> A Wera Tri Wing #2 #375 2/80 028120 screwdriver will fit the screws on a CW80, it was purchased at a local tool store. The security bit sets are usually to big in cross section or not long enough to reach the screw head.
> 
> DRW


If I was determined, I would slot the back of the bit and use a flat blade screwdriver. This discussion is worth the value, on where to get one.

Thanks DRW for the info!:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I ground down an old screwdriver to take mine apart. It wasn't broken, I just was curious as to what was in it.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

http://www.fixya.com/support/t1262651-new_lionel_cw_80_trans_former_stopped


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

What can I say? I don't have anything that new.


If the fitting is a triangle , then sure ,grind down a screwdriver. I was under the impression it's a triwing but I guess I am wrong, after reading the link.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

pookybear said:


> Always heard them called Tri-wings.
> 
> like xrunner said, you need something different.
> 
> ...


Thanks, this is in fact the correct screwdriver,I did some checking.
I got one coming from ebay. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Preci...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=2713971879325443672

Thanks, I will keep a supply of 250V 8 amp extra fuses around.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

goraman said:


> I'm told the Lionel CW80 uses a triangle shaped screw so you have to send the transformer in for a fuse replacement.


I forgot to add - that's ridiculous. Why are they opposed to having the end user replace a fuse? That's the type of thing that is just making life difficult for the consumer.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

xrunner said:


> I forgot to add - that's ridiculous. Why are they opposed to having the end user replace a fuse? That's the type of thing that is just making life difficult for the consumer.


And with no breaker! 
Seems there is a service charge after the warranty is over $$$$$.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You can thank insurance companies. I am guessing it is a liability issue. Work inside a transformer or say an electric motor for a tool is serviced. Sears for instance will not sell you a part attached to the motor. I tried to get a bearing for a belt sander but because it was on the armature, "They" said it had to be serviced. So from practical experience I am not surprised.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

goraman said:


> And with no breaker!
> Seems there is a service charge after the warranty is over $$$$$.



Think positive, now with that tool you can work on Roomba Robt Vacuums as well as on Happy Meal Toys.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

big ed said:


> Think positive, now with that tool you can work on Roomba Robt Vacuums as well as on Happy Meal Toys.


Well my son has tons of Happy meal toys, he gets one a week.
Well I picked up 2 boxes of 8 amp 250v fuses both slow blow for the Transformer and fast acting for the in line fuse holder.
This thing should not draw more than 4 amps 5 tops if it swings 100 watts at peak! 

So I should be able to keep things going until I get him a better transformer.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

goraman said:


> Well I picked up 2 boxes of 8 amp 250v fuses both slow blow for the Transformer and fast acting for the in line fuse holder.
> This thing should not draw more than 4 amps 5 tops if it swings 100 watts at peak!


Better check in every week or so, so we know you haven't electrocuted yourself. 
:laugh:


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

xrunner said:


> Better check in every week or so, so we know you haven't electrocuted yourself.
> :laugh:


I have spent some time around electronics, unless there are 6 15,000 uf 800v caps with no bleed resisters in line I'll probably be ok.:laugh:
since each one would be the size of a tall boy can of beer it is very unlikely.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

goraman said:


> I have spent some time around electronics, unless there are 6 15,000 uf 800v caps with no bleed resisters in line I'll probably be ok.:laugh:
> since each one would be the size of a tall boy can of beer it is very unlikely.


Well, you better watch out - they put those triangle screw thingies on there for a very good reason!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

xrunner said:


> Better check in every week or so, so we know you haven't electrocuted yourself.
> :laugh:



Also when you go to toss it out make sure the window is open.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I think I would take a phillips bit and grind it to fit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

xrunner said:


> Well, you better watch out - they put those triangle screw thingies on there for a very good reason!


Perhaps, but their "good reason" has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with extracting money from your wallet.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Perhaps, but their "good reason" has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with extracting money from your wallet.


That's what I mean. It's all about the bottom line, even the safety. Buy the simplest device today and you'll find 4 or 5 pages of safety instructions, things that even a moron would know not to do. Why do they do that - because they are concerned about your safety? No, it's so they can't lose a lawsuit. They mention every single thing you could possibly do to get hurt, and say not to do it.

"Wait, you mean I can't turn the lawnmower over and pull out debris while it's running? You never said it couldn't be done in the manual!!!" That's why I lost my fingers!!!" I'm gonna sue!!!

So yea, they kill 2 birds with one stone. They put security screws on the transformer (now they are covered if someone tries to open it and gets shocked) and they also extract more cash from consumers.

Win-win for them.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

xrunner,

Having worked in customer service before in my life. I would have to say
those 6 or so pages of Do Not Dos, that you are given with a ladder these
days, are there for a reason. Someone has tried it plus has already tried to
sue. And yes a large chunk of our population if it were still only 100 years
earlier would not have made past the age of 25! Not counting of course
the general state of disease and famine. Which still runs wild all over the
world.

Hurray for modern science where even fools can be saved from themselves.

Pooky


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## Ed2023 (Jan 18, 2011)

The triangular bit you are looking for is available at Harbor Freight, item #97517, here: http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-screwdriver-set-with-tweezers-97517.html


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

IMHO, speaking as an electrical engineer with 48 years of experience, I would not attempt to fix the CW80 transformer. It is unlikely that it is repairable. 

Also, there are two models of the CW80. One is the early model and one is the late model. The early models were junk. There is something stamped on the bottom of the late models, but I have forgotten what it is.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ed2023 said:


> The triangular bit you are looking for is available at Harbor Freight, item #97517, here: http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-screwdriver-set-with-tweezers-97517.html


This is not useful for this application. The screws are so far down in the recesses that you can't reach them with these.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

servoguy said:


> IMHO, speaking as an electrical engineer with 48 years of experience, I would not attempt to fix the CW80 transformer. It is unlikely that it is repairable.
> 
> Also, there are two models of the CW80. One is the early model and one is the late model. The early models were junk. There is something stamped on the bottom of the late models, but I have forgotten what it is.


I think it's safe to say,replacing a burned out internal fuse is a repairable component. Unless the case has been filled with hot tar inside entombing the step down transformer,board ect...


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

pookybear said:


> And yes a large chunk of our population if it were still only 100 years earlier would not have made past the age of 25!


Well I don't know how I made it this far, having played with ham radio gear as a teenager what with all it's high voltage, rode bicycles and unicycles as a child with no safety gear whatsoever, and fished and played around dams and dangerous spillways too.

I guess I'm just lucky?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> IMHO, speaking as an electrical engineer with 48 years of experience, I would not attempt to fix the CW80 transformer. It is unlikely that it is repairable.
> 
> Also, there are two models of the CW80. One is the early model and one is the late model. The early models were junk. There is something stamped on the bottom of the late models, but I have forgotten what it is.



I think the bad ones were all stamped with a certain letter in the serial #'s.
I can't find the article with what the letter was.
I heard the early ones just had the wires on wrong.

I found this a copy and paste,

*1. CW-80*: there are two distinct versions: original and revised: Per Lionel, they share the following characteristics:
Product number 6-14198; 18 volt, *5 *amp, 80 volt-amps; programmable accessory outputs. 
The the two versions differ in their internal wiring, which determines how they should be connected to the layout, among other issues: 
*1a. CW-80 Original* version: Terminals A and B are common ("ground") whereas U and U are "hot." Typically they have a Made in China date containing four characters; for example, 1104 signifying Novermber 2004. See online owners manual 71-4198-251, dated 2/03. Opinion: These were fraught with problems.
*1b. CW-80 Revised* version: Terminals U and U are are common ("ground") whereas A and B are hot. Typically they have a Made in China date containing five alphanumeric characters; for example, G1106, signifying November 2006. See online owners manual #71-4198-250, dated 6/08. Opinion: These seem to be quite reliable. In my experience they will run postwar dual-motor locos but with not a lot of power left over for illuminated passenger cars, etc.


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

Thanks, Big Ed guess it might work out.
By 2011 I would hope to have a revised CW80.


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

I shorted mine out a couple weeks ago on a test track. I had a old diesel with a horn and couldn't get the horn to work, I tried wiring up the horn button to the controller along with the built in buttons and shorted something out.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

xrunner said:


> Well I don't know how I made it this far, having played with ham radio gear as a teenager what with all it's high voltage, rode bicycles and unicycles as a child with no safety gear whatsoever, and fished and played around dams and dangerous spillways too.
> 
> I guess I'm just lucky?


Bicycles especially, Remember the banana seats.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

xrunner, I think God was watching out for you. I know he saved me a few times.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> xrunner, I think God was watching out for you. I know he saved me a few times.


I don't want to put in print some of the stuff I did as a teenager!  Let's just say it involved explosives in a big way. :laugh: I'm very fortunate to be here with all extremities intact!


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## goraman (Aug 21, 2011)

There is one event that comes to the front of my mind.
With my head swimming watching Evil Knievel, with cheers from the neighborhood kids I pumped up the big blue Hip pity Hop to max pressure.
Climbed the ladder to the roof with said hip pity hop in toe.
I put my brothers motor cycle helmet and leather gloves on.

I then slowly got my feet to the edge of the roof while sitting atop the big blue rubber ball and grasped the handle with all my strength.

The plan was to jump down, hit the drive way and bounce the highest of any kid who ever owned a Hip pity Hop .

1-2-3333!!!

I leaned slightly back and jumped, as I left the roof I saw my father coming down the street in his big Ford truck.
Next thing I knew Pow!
I hit pretty squarely really but the big blue ball blew out the seam on impact and there I lay on my back on the concrete drive way looking up to see all the kids running off.
My father walked up,looked down at me and said "Get in the house, I'm going to I kill you"!!!

Well I'm still here any way, The leap from the garage took courage but surviving my Dad at 8 years old with his temper made me fearless.

A friend of mine told me about this song after telling my story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h32OxKofS1A Enjoy...


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