# Empty Center Beam Cars Involved in Another Derailment!



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It it really too much to expect the yard master to make sure the light empty cars are at the rear of the consist? Even model railroaders know enough to do that!

On the good side, nobody was injured in the derailment.


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## RailNut (Sep 24, 2013)

The trucks and chassis went their separate ways!




.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yeah, unlike our model trains, the trucks aren’t attached to the car…the weight of the car keeps them sitting on kingpins, and when a car derails, the trucks leave the car….


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

See the guy turn around and hightail it out of there. 
Too fast too , you think?
Kept right on going too. lol
Someone is in trouble.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So when that happens, how soon do the guys in the lead locomotive know about it….?

And did you notice that far right bridge pier move when the car got crunched into it? That’ll cause the bridge to be shut down and inspected…..


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## RailNut (Sep 24, 2013)

The trucks releasing so easily probably reduces the amount of damage to itself in an accident.

I was thinking the car was going to dislocate the pier completely from under the roadway. The railcar looked the weaker of the two.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

But it was all that weight of the trailing tank cars pushing the centerbeam car into the pier…..that’s a LOT of weight!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

PSR in action?


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## Homeless by Choice (Apr 15, 2016)

If I I'm looking at this correctly, the the camera is on the inside of the curve. This means that the trailing cars pushed the center beam cars off the rail on the far side. Is that the way you view the video also.
LeRoy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Old_Hobo said:


> So when that happens, how soon do the guys in the lead locomotive know about it….?


I'm guessing pretty immediately. The brake line air is released and that will be sensed on the spot.


Old_Hobo said:


> And did you notice that far right bridge pier move when the car got crunched into it? That’ll cause the bridge to be shut down and inspected…..


Did you notice how neatly that bridge pier sliced through that car?


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

_"So when that happens, how soon do the guys in the lead locomotive know about it….?"_

Most likely when the cars separated, the brake pipe hoses separated, and the train went into emergency.

What we can't see in the video is HOW LONG the train in question was, how many engines in the lead, whether there were any distributed power units on the rear (or in the middle someplace), etc.

It looks likes there was a sharp curve involved.

IF this was one of those "monster length" trains the railroads want to run these days (precision scheduled railroading, eh?), and IF there were many cars behind the empty lumber cars that derailed, and IF the engineman had need to reduce the throttle (or perhaps use dynamic braking) due to conditions ahead,
THEN...
... it might create severe "buff" forces, strong enough to lift and push the empties in the middle right up and off the tracks.

Watch that covered hopper (just ahead of the lumber cars that derailed) "lift up", taking the first lumber car with it.

Now the buff forces continue to push it up and off "the high side" of the curve.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's gonna cost a few dollars.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I wonder what the loud bang was at around 11 seconds into the video?


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## Sevenhills1952 (Feb 2, 2021)

I'm amazed someone caught that on film and how the bridge withstood that. Maybe those empty cars acted as crush material absorbing the impact. If those empty cars were in back and train going slower all would be well?

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Sevenhills1952 said:


> I'm amazed someone caught that on film and how the bridge withstood that. Maybe those empty cars acted as crush material absorbing the impact. If those empty cars were in back and train going slower all would be well?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


That was the plants security camera.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

J.Albert1949 said:


> IF this was one of those "monster length" trains the railroads want to run these days (precision scheduled railroading, eh?), and IF there were many cars behind the empty lumber cars that derailed, and IF the engineman had need to reduce the throttle (or perhaps use dynamic braking) due to conditions ahead,
> THEN...
> ... it might create severe "buff" forces, strong enough to lift and push the empties in the middle right up and off the tracks.


I was wondering why the empty cars tipped to the outside of the curve...I was figuring they'd be "stringlining" and fall to the inside of the curve. J.Albert, your explanation makes complete sense as a probability.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Something tells me the power was off to the left of our vantage point, doing a reversing move into the yard, or switching the yard…. The latter would explain the loud impact heard at 0:11. 
Just guestimating though.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Guestimating? Is that the same as WAGGING?


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Here's a follow-up video showing the crash in slow motion and the cleanup. The guy clearing the parking lot is now out with a spreader putting down salt/chemicals.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Guestimating? Is that the same as WAGGING?


I don’t know what you mean by wagging.

Guesstimate is obviously a rudimentary guess with semi-educated estimate. So it’s between a blind guess and a professional experience estimation. I’m not a RR employee with 15 years experience, but I’m not 5 years old either. It looks like thise cars are being pushed, not pulled… because there is force pushing them into the bridge pier, not pulling them into it. Appears clear to me, but lacking 1st hand experience I could be wrong. Hence, my guestimate. 
Sorry to confuse you with midwest ******* terminology lol.
What is wagging?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice dent in the bridge support! 



















OilValleyRy said:


> I’m not a RR employee with 15 years experience, but I’m not 5 years old either. It looks like thise cars are being pushed, not pulled… because there is force pushing them into the bridge pier, not pulling them into it. Appears clear to me, but lacking 1st hand experience I could be wrong. Hence, my guestimate.


I'm not a RR employee either, but it appeared that the motive power was in the lead. The cars being pushed could have easily been by all the following cars and their inertia. If there was a lot of weight back there, it takes a while to stop it.

I hasten to add, since we didn't see the whole train, there's no way of knowing if there weren't more helpers to the left of what we say.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Yep. 
Hate to admit it but I’ve done this on my former HO layout. Lol Pushing 86’ hi-cubes through 22” radius was 50/50 odds. Too much lateral force and they buckle.
Avoiding that scenario on my new layout.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Interesting that at 5:09 in the followup video there's already another train on the overhead. Apparently it was a quick inspection, and they decided there was not much damage to the overhead. But looking at GRJ's pics, they must have done some repairs fast.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

It's always a pleasure to watch experts operate their machines. Those crane operators have amazing control of them!


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

OilValleyRy said:


> I don’t know what you mean by wagging.
> 
> Guesstimate is obviously a rudimentary guess with semi-educated estimate. So it’s between a blind guess and a professional experience estimation. I’m not a RR employee with 15 years experience, but I’m not 5 years old either. It looks like thise cars are being pushed, not pulled… because there is force pushing them into the bridge pier, not pulling them into it. Appears clear to me, but lacking 1st hand experience I could be wrong. Hence, my guestimate.
> Sorry to confuse you with midwest ***** terminology lol.
> What is wagging?


A WAG is a Wild A** Guess. That is, in my experience used to define a top of the head estimation with very little known facts to base it on. It is opposed to a SWAG, or Scientific Wild A** Guess, which is based on some study and facts but has too many unknowns for a true professional estimate. I have used all three terms, from military and government work, and guesstimate is usually more like a SWAG than a WAG from how I learned them.

On a side note, now I will have to look them up since guestimate is showing as spelled incorrectly but guesstimate is in the computers dictionary as the correct spelling. I wonder who made the rule on how to spell made up words.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Wild A** Guessing….. 😆


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## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

OilValleyRy said:


> I don’t know what you mean by wagging.
> 
> Guesstimate is obviously a rudimentary guess with semi-educated estimate. So it’s between a blind guess and a professional experience estimation. I’m not a RR employee with 15 years experience, but I’m not 5 years old either. It looks like thise cars are being pushed, not pulled… because there is force pushing them into the bridge pier, not pulling them into it. Appears clear to me, but lacking 1st hand experience I could be wrong. Hence, my guestimate.
> Sorry to confuse you with midwest ***** terminology lol.
> What is wagging?


My Midwest translation for those "not from around here":
Guesstimate- When a person takes what one sees, applies what he has previously experienced, and arrives at a most-likely scenario or conclusion.

WAG- Wild (donkey) guess- I refuse to do as such, and have no patience for those who practice this method of analysis.


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## RedJimmy1955 (Aug 23, 2021)

I am very glad to see that evidently nothing spilled out of the tank cars...
I believe most of the damage will "buff right out"
And there is a cleanup on aisle five...lol


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## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

miracleworker said:


> My Midwest translation for those "not from around here":
> Guesstimate- When a person takes what one sees, applies what he has previously experienced, and arrives at a most-likely scenario or conclusion.
> 
> WAG- Wild (donkey) guess- I refuse to do as such, and have no patience for those who practice this method of analysis.


But, using WAG for amusement is quite acceptible.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Here is the accident site:









West Bottoms · Kansas City, MO


Kansas City, MO




goo.gl


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Swag sounds accurate, for old_hobo and anyone else preoccupied with antagonism.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Watch it….the lynch mob master will getcha…. 🤣 🤣 🤣


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