# Newbie Seeking Advice on MTH Trains



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

I thought I wrote something 4 hours ago But I guess I did something wrong since I cannot find it.

Anyway

I was gonna get a free train set, gauge unknown, but that sorta fell thru…. and I have been thinking about trains ever since.

I went to this huge train store in North Miami with an HO set in my mind. Thinking Big Bang for my bucks

They were showing me around and during the conversation it was mentioned that larger trains are easier for older folks (me) to mess with and they took me to this big room with a Giant O gauge, many many trains and started to tell me about the Top of the line MTH Trains.
Well I never really heard about MTH but I was impressed with what they did, especially with that Proto Sound feature and remote controls.

The lowest priced MTH set was a Santa Fe F-3 Diesel passenger set for 320.00, I had seen a Lionel Steam freight set at BJ's for 200.00 and thought that was a lot of money.

Now I am really confused, I was told that HO gauge trains cannot make as tight a turn as O gauge 0-31 curves and actually needs more room. Ho runs on two rails but O needs three rails.

I was told MTH is a much higher quality then Lionel, steel wheels and couplers, Proto sound 3, Remote controlled, rust proof track, better details etc etc etc. When I grew up Lionel was King. You can see how I became a little confused. 

What to do, I would want at least one extra car and some extra track but suddenly It is another hundred??????

Any thoughts……!


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

First step is to determine your budget. 
Also determine what gauge you want to model and the space you have. 
Do not be afraid to buy used equipment. A majority of my HO stuff is used.

O gauge is always more expensive. But there are good deals out there.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Bkubiak said:


> Now I am really confused, I was told that HO gauge trains cannot make as tight a turn as O gauge 0-31 curves and actually needs more room. Ho runs on two rails but O needs three rails.


How can a smaller scale need more room than a larger scale? Sounds you ran into an O scale salesman who works on commission! Small HO scale equipment can actually run in as little as a 15" radius, or a 30" diameter circle. Most HO equipment won't, but the really small stuff can. The smallest practical radius for HO is 18", and even then you are limited to the smaller end of the equipment spectrum. 24" radius will handle just about anything, and will make a circle 48" in diameter. 
In O-31, you would need a 62" diameter circle.
Anything MTH can do, the higher end HO scale models can do as well, and for less money.
MTH uses their proprietary DCS system, while most other HO manufacturers use NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) standards compliant DCC equipment, meaning any manufacturers DCC system can run any manufacturers DCC equipped locomotives.
I think step one for you should be to determine how much room you have to devote to the hobby. If you can spare the room that O scale requires, and you feel more comfortable with the larger equipment, by all means go that route. If you are limited to a corner of a small spare bedroom, you may want to go with HO. 
There's nothing wrong with either scale, it's a matter of what is best for *you*.
Welcome to the hobby and good luck!


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Is there a place in this forum that talks about specific brands of trains, Lionel, MTH etc.?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It depends on the brand. Lionel and MTH are primarily discussed in the O-scale forum, if you start talking Bachmann or other HO makers, they're in the HO forum. MTH is maing HO stuff now, so you might find them over in HO as well.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It depends on the brand. Lionel and MTH are primarily discussed in the O-scale forum, if you start talking Bachmann or other HO makers, they're in the HO forum. MTH is maing HO stuff now, so you might find them over in HO as well.


I have been looking at both of those threads, Does MTH or Lionel or any of the O gauge makers use sprung trucks?

I was looking at a Lionel set in BJ's yesterday and right off I saw the coupler on the coal tender was busted off the display set, I did not check to see if those couplers were metal or plastic.

I was looking at the coupler on that Lionel and saw that there was a little plunger under it that if pulled down opened the coupler, am I correct in assuming this a magnetic uncoupler system requiring a special thingy to uncouple?

MTH say they have a remote operated uncoupler on their engines, what about the other cars how do they uncouple?

Curious mind of a 75 year old here with nothing but questions and a SS budget


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Bkubiak, Welcome the hobby and the forum. Ho have two rails and O have three. What do real trains have?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Southern said:


> Bkubiak, Welcome the hobby and the forum. Ho have two rails and O have three. What do real trains have?


You do know that O has 2 rail trains don't you?






:cheeky4:


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## oddtodd (Nov 5, 2013)

Bkubiak I do mine on an sdi budget, which is less than ss. I hand build a lot of my structures, and to give you an example of how cheap I am I made a train table that's 3x6 for less than 30 by reusing and using scrap from a local subdivision.All I paid for was the foam top. I made a lot of my buildings using this site: https://www.fiddlersgreen.net

They have a lot of neat stuff for dirt cheap and all you need is a printer and some matte board. They throw this away at my local framing store so I use a lot. Just some ideas from one fixed income modeler to anthoer.

I use n scale though which takes up a lot less room because it is about half the size of HO.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Southern said:


> Bkubiak, Welcome the hobby and the forum. Ho have two rails and O have three. What do real trains have?


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)




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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

oddtodd said:


> Bkubiak I do mine on an sdi budget, which is less than ss. I hand build a lot of my structures, and to give you an example of how cheap I am I made a train table that's 3x6 for less than 30 by reusing and using scrap from a local subdivision.All I paid for was the foam top. I made a lot of my buildings using this site: https://www.fiddlersgreen.net
> 
> They have a lot of neat stuff for dirt cheap and all you need is a printer and some matte board. They throw this away at my local framing store so I use a lot. Just some ideas from one fixed income modeler to anthoer.
> 
> I use n scale though which takes up a lot less room because it is about half the size of HO.


I have an 4 car N scale diesel train I bought for one of my kids in 1970 it is built by atlas, no rails, some cars missing a wheel, the engine is missing the rear coupler, it is a pennsylvania passenger setup, the loco light comes on but it does not run, probably stuck from 40 years on a shelf, will sell or swap for something once I get started. It is just too small for me.
Today I saw a huge HO set for sale for 135.00 trying to get in touch with the guy, lots of track, cars, switch's, two engines etc I think I might buy it just to se what I can do with it.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Southern said:


> Bkubiak, Welcome the hobby and the forum. Ho have two rails and O have three. What do real trains have?


I know real trains have only Two, But I grew up around the L.I. RailRoad and they had a third rail.

I once had an HO kit set when I was 14 where you had to actually build everything, even the Loco and all the trucks were sprung. it was a 4-4-2 wish I had it now, I used to take Punk, light it and stick it in the smoke stack for my smoke LOL

Thinking to pas by BJ's a and take a good look at that Lionel O gauge and perhaps Toys R Us to see what they have, The nearest real hobby store to me is about 30 miles away,


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## oddtodd (Nov 5, 2013)

There's a real good train site online called www.modeltrainstuff.com That is cheaper than most hobby shops including shipping. You might want to look there.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bkubiak said:


> I have been looking at both of those threads, Does MTH or Lionel or any of the O gauge makers use sprung trucks?


Both MTH and Lionel offer stuff with sprung trucks, but not all the products have them. You have to look at specific features.



> I was looking at a Lionel set in BJ's yesterday and right off I saw the coupler on the coal tender was busted off the display set, I did not check to see if those couplers were metal or plastic.


Some of the inexpensive sets have the cheaper trucks on them, I wouldn't judge the whole product line by the bargain set.



> I was looking at the coupler on that Lionel and saw that there was a little plunger under it that if pulled down opened the coupler, am I correct in assuming this a magnetic uncoupler system requiring a special thingy to uncouple?


Yep, it's an uncoupling track. The same system is used by all the major O-gauge 3-rail makers.



> MTH say they have a remote operated uncoupler on their engines, what about the other cars how do they uncouple?


Lionel and MTH offer electrocouplers on their command locomotives, and Lionel has some select rolling stock that also has the electrocouplers. Most of the rolling stock has the magnetic couplers described above.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Both MTH and Lionel offer stuff with sprung trucks, but not all the products have them. You have to look at specific features.
> 
> Some of the inexpensive sets have the cheaper trucks on them, I wouldn't judge the whole product line by the bargain set.
> 
> ...


I went and looked hard at that set in BJ's the Loco now has the front cow sweeper and coupler broken off, the parts are plastic. I noticed that the two middle drive wheels on the 4-4-0 loco do not have the track lip on them, I guess that is so it can make a sharper turn

Do the HO sets have decent knuckle type couplers and uncoupler systems too?

What about the Proto sound on HO is it as loud as the one on O gauge and does it do as much?

I was amazed when the guy showed me what happens when he pressed the MTH O gauge start button, the motor started, the lights all came on, the motor seemed to building up air pressure or something, then I heard what he said were the brakes releasing and then the motor started to rev up and train slowly moved forward and it kept slowly building up speed and after another turn or two he said watch this, he pressed another button and the train started to slow down, I could hear brakes squealing, bells ringing, horn blasting and the train slowed to a crawl and then stopped and someone announced welcome to somewhere and thank you and I was just standing there mouth open like a dummy, I think I was hooked. Does the HO stuff do all that too, I forgot to even ask?


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## oddtodd (Nov 5, 2013)

You can get some of that stuff on HO. It's called DCC. It's more expensive than I can afford though. I want to build me a sound system for my layout. I found a book on electronic projects at my local library for model railroads. Heck I found a whole bunch of books on model railroading. I plan to use every trick I can on this stuff.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

HO has a lot of the features described, but you can get some amazing features on O-gauge stuff.

If you want to see the top of the heap in features for O-gauge, check this out.

https://www.lionel.com/Visionline/index.html#/nav/video0


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Bkubiak said:


> I have an 4 car N scale diesel train I bought for one of my kids in 1970 it is built by atlas, no rails, some cars missing a wheel, the engine is missing the rear coupler, it is a pennsylvania passenger setup, the loco light comes on but it does not run, probably stuck from 40 years on a shelf, will sell or swap for something once I get started. It is just too small for me.
> Today I saw a huge HO set for sale for 135.00 trying to get in touch with the guy, lots of track, cars, switch's, two engines etc I think I might buy it just to se what I can do with it.


I heard from the guy with the big set of HO trains and track for 135.00. He said that both locos work, all the remote control switches work, the transformer (he called it a power supply) works but they all have Horn and hook couplers. I never heard of a horn and hook. What the heck is that? I'm gonna go and have a look at it tomorrow.

two engines, (one diesel one steam) 5 switch's, transformer, 25 cars, and lots and lots of track, he said enough to fill a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood, a bridge, and some buildings, some never built, gotta be worth 135 bucks


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

$135, huh? Need pictures, and at least you take a look. It may be in great shape, or it could be some broken down junkers.

Horn hook were standard on most HO stuff from the factory in the 70's and 80's. You can replace them with Kadee knuckle couplers. Many newer starter sets are coming with knuckle couplers, but are not high quality like Kadee. Just about all the premium stuff comes with higher quality knuckle couplers. I prefer the metal Kadees.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

rrgrassi said:


> $135, huh? Need pictures, and at least you take a look. It may be in great shape, or it could be some broken down junkers.
> 
> Horn hook were standard on most HO stuff from the factory in the 70's and 80's. You can replace them with Kadee knuckle couplers. Many newer starter sets are coming with knuckle couplers, but are not high quality like Kadee. Just about all the premium stuff comes with higher quality knuckle couplers. I prefer the metal Kadees.



Hope these pictures come thru…..


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Gonna go and see this train set deal in a little while, if the engines both run and the transformer is good it is probably worth the price. Almost forgot, one of the cars is a working Crane car and that comes with a Crane tender car, have no idea what they would cost to buy


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Those cars have the horn hook couplers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bkubiak said:


> Gonna go and see this train set deal in a little while, if the engines both run and the transformer is good it is probably worth the price. Almost forgot, one of the cars is a working Crane car and that comes with a Crane tender car, have no idea what they would cost to buy


If that's the command version of the working crane with the RailSounds tender, it's worth $350-450.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If that's the command version of the working crane with the RailSounds tender, it's worth $350-450.


I bought the trains, he took 120 for the lot

the loco is 2-8-2 with tender made in Yugoslavia, no brand visible, it runs, but something is broken on one side of the piston rods, I think I can epoxy it, but there appears to be a small piece missing I think I can boondoggle something, the diesel is made by life like from China it has no rear coupler and the front one is all twisted, of course I did not see that until I got it home and set up an oval on the dining room table.
Gosh got a lot of track. 60 curves and almost 40 straights, 5 switches that the electric solenoids work. 3 left 2 right or the other way around, one 90 degree crossover and a bunch of re-railers both straight and curved
The power pack is super good it's a TECH 1400
Almost every car is plastic with plastic wheels and so is the crane car and tender, looks like all the trucks on almost every car is non removable, they sort of look popped in
One car, a tank car has sprung trucks with plastic wheels.
Everything looks like it has been sitting in cardboard boxes for years and years, dusty and dirty
what the heck it was 120 bucks


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Bkubiak said:


> I bought the trains, he took 120 for the lot
> 
> the loco is 2-8-2 with tender made in Yugoslavia, no brand visible, it runs, but something is broken on one side of the piston rods, I think I can epoxy it, but there appears to be a small piece missing I think I can boondoggle something, the diesel is made by life like from China it has no rear coupler and the front one is all twisted, of course I did not see that until I got it home and set up an oval on the dining room table.
> Gosh got a lot of track. 60 curves and almost 40 straights, 5 switches that the electric solenoids work. 3 left 2 right or the other way around, one 90 degree crossover and a bunch of re-railers both straight and curved
> ...


The 2-8-2 should be made by Mehano/IHC. Those are decent running locomotives. It will help with the value of your purchase. The cars are starter set quality. Used pricing is 2-3 dollars each. You will see some on e-bay that sell for more. Those cars are easy to improve, if you have the time. If you have billboard type cars, add a buck or two to the value.

The transformer is a good one also. The locomotive and the transformer will make up a bulk of the value. I'd say $50 to $75 for the locomotive, and $20 to $30 for the transformer.

Is the track brass, steel or nickle silver? Nickle silver is the best, and worth the most, followed by brass and steel. I prefer brass over steel.

It sounds like you paid fair market value for the set...

Now, time to have fun!!


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

rrgrassi said:


> The 2-8-2 should be made by Mehano/IHC. Those are decent running locomotives. It will help with the value of your purchase. The cars are starter set quality. Used pricing is 2-3 dollars each. You will see some on e-bay that sell for more. Those cars are easy to improve, if you have the time. If you have billboard type cars, add a buck or two to the value.
> 
> The transformer is a good one also. The locomotive and the transformer will make up a bulk of the value. I'd say $50 to $75 for the locomotive, and $20 to $30 for the transformer.
> 
> ...



What is a billboard type car?? Some of the boxcars have sliding doors, some of the box cars are weighted with a piece of metal inside them, there are two log dump cars and a log dump actuator, but missing some parts and there are two hopper type cars, one has doors that are open at the bottom. There is even one car that looks like it is full of cut logs.

How can I tell the diff between rails, I know brass is brass colored and steel is probably rusty, how do I tell brass from nickel silver??? The rails are from at least 4 different brands.

Is there some type of connector to keep the rails from coming apart from each other?

The crane car is cool, it's missing the cranks to make it go up and down, the crane tender car looks like a flat car with a caboose on one end and some track rails and ties on the flat part

I even have a switch track actuator set of 6 buttons to throw the switch's


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Billboard type car is one that has advertising on the sides, like Old Dutch Cleanser, Ajax, any type of beer, etc. They crane and work car sounds like a Tyco made one. I have mine from the mid '70's. I was in 5th grade when I got it. 

It came in my 2-8-0 Tyco Chattanooga set. I still have the set, but no track or transformer.

You will need to buy a few packs of HO track joiners.

Nickle Silver track is shiny like a new nickle.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

rrgrassi said:


> Billboard type car is one that has advertising on the sides, like Old Dutch Cleanser, Ajax, any type of beer, etc. They crane and work car sounds like a Tyco made one. I have mine from the mid '70's. I was in 5th grade when I got it.
> 
> It came in my 2-8-0 Tyco Chattanooga set. I still have the set, but no track or transformer.
> 
> ...


here is what came with the set…….


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