# AF 303 help needed



## upsman55

I recently picked up an AF 303 steamer with tender from a local antique store. It's plastic shell is actually melted on one side near the cab from some past disaster, and when I removed the shell, one of the white wires connected to the motor was melted through! My question though is about the connection between the tender and the engine. Am I correct to say they are "jack panels" And should the 303 have them like so many other American Flyer steamers I have seen. There does appear to be two mounting holes on the back of the cab for it. Currently the engine is wired directly to the tender reversing unit, which makes it very inconvenient to work on the locomotive. I would like to rewire it properly, and I have been on PortLine Hobbies web site searching, but I'm not sure what to order! The 303 has the infamous 5th wire, I have only seen 4 wire harnesses. Can you guys set me on the right path?

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## flyernut

Good morning!!! The 303 is a great puller, as it has the pul-mor traction tires. It was made from 1954-57. Inside the shell there should be a stamped date in white ink.....Your engine is direct wired from the tender e-unit to the engine. A 283 Pacific is also direct wired.And you're right, it does make it a pain in the neck to work on...That 5th wire is for the smoke unit... The wires should be colored gray, green, and black coming from the tender e-unit to the motor.. From you picture it looks like the field coil might be shot as the wires coming from that a really short.. I can't see much from the picture.. You're also missing brushes and brush springs. The cab can be replaced with another one found on ebay if the melted part bothers you, as it would me,lol...How are the holes that are in the boiler shell and tender?? Are they broken out?? These can be fixed easily.... I believe I have 5 303's packed away... Wiring diagrams can be found on-line for this engine.. Remember, the wiring diagram is different from a 4 wire unit. Send us a few more pictures.. What did you pay for it??:smilie_daumenpos:.. As an after-thought, the little copper shim on the armature doesn't belong there where the picture shows it to be. It should be on the other end of the shaft..


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## flyernut

When you go to reassemble the chassis to the boiler shell, be sure to unscrew the red smokestack from the smoke unit, otherwise you'll break it..If you want originality, direct wiring is correct. You can add the jack plate and plug if desired and wire it that way, but it will not be original..I've done it for people who do indeed want the convenience of separating the tender from the engine. To keep it original, follow the wiring diagram for 5 wire connections; to use the jack plate and plug, follow the 4 wire diagram...


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## flyernut

It would also appear you have the newer style smoke unit. I don't think that's the right one for this engine, but it will work.


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## Aflyer

upsman55,
As flyernut said, that 303 is a great little locomotive.

He has covered about everything in his responses. The only thing I would add is that maintaining the original wiring with the 5th wire gives you better voltage to the smoke unit which produces better smoke.

Looking forward to a picture of it running again!!
Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Can't add anymore, but felt chiming in here would show I still look once in a while....


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## upsman55

Thanks for the info Flyernut! Very helpful. I have to tell you that the picture I posted was a bit deceiving. When I took that pic, I had already removed a few wires,and also the springs and brushes. So everything is there. I was anxious to bench test it so I did a quick rewire using some solid core wire I had laying around,and I actually got it to run! And it smoked immediately when I powered it up. That choo choo sound is great too. (This is my first AF loco!) I'm not happy with the wiring though. I used solid core copper, #22 I think. It's not flexible enough,and added to the difficulty of fitting the shell and tender back together. 
To answer your questions, first, I paid $14.00 for it at the antique store. It was marked $20, but they were having a Christmas sale! I was happy with the price. All of the holes in the shell and tender are intact. As for that copper shim, yikes! I probably put it back together as you saw it.Have to remedy that. Now here's a few more pics of this loco.


This is its bad side. Ouch!








[/IMG]

Sorry, but my iPad is letting me down here! I can't seem to post more pictures at this time. I'll switch to the laptop for the rest tomorrow. Thanks again


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Thanks for the info Flyernut! Very helpful. I have to tell you that the picture I posted was a bit deceiving. When I took that pic, I had already removed a few wires,and also the springs and brushes. So everything is there. I was anxious to bench test it so I did a quick rewire using some solid core wire I had laying around,and I actually got it to run! And it smoked immediately when I powered it up. That choo choo sound is great too. (This is my first AF loco!) I'm not happy with the wiring though. I used solid core copper, #22 I think. It's not flexible enough,and added to the difficulty of fitting the shell and tender back together.
> To answer your questions, first, I paid $14.00 for it at the antique store. It was marked $20, but they were having a Christmas sale! I was happy with the price. All of the holes in the shell and tender are intact. As for that copper shim, yikes! I probably put it back together as you saw it.Have to remedy that. Now here's a few more pics of this loco.
> 
> 
> This is its bad side. Ouch!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> Sorry, but my iPad is letting me down here! I can't seem to post more pictures at this time. I'll switch to the laptop for the rest tomorrow. Thanks again


She's been toasted all right.. First off, get rid of that wire.. I use only 22 gauge stranded super-flex wire. I either buy it by the roll or by the foot.. You'll certainly get the loco to run with it ON THE BENCH, but the problems start when you try and run it on a layout. Being stiff, the wire won't flex and it will cause derailments on the curves. It will throw the tender off the rails.Don't run the engine with a dry smoke unit, you'll burn it up.At $14 bucks, you got the buy of the month.There are a few things you can do to make it run another 50 years..As long as it's apart, I would dis-mantle everything from the chassis, EXCEPT REMOVING THE WHEELS...If you remove the wheels, you'll have to re-quarter them, not hard but un-necessary. Be sure the white insulators are tight on the rims. If not, make sure all oil is removed from them, and use some instant or crazy glue to fasten them back unto the rims. If they're loose, you're going to have a short when placed on the rails.. That's why it's important to not only bench test, but to actually run the loco on a layout.. Many problems will pop up not seen on the bench. Clean out all the grease from the grease pan, and re-grease.. Re-face the armature!! Some people just clean and polish the armature face, but that doesn't address the micro-grooves on the face. You want a FLAT FACE. I chuck the the armature shaft up in my drill press, and hold a piece of 600 or finer piece of sandpaper on it while spinning the armature. This will flatten out and re-face the armature. I then use a piece of 2000 grit of even finer to polish it. Make sure you clean out the 3 grooves in the face. When you re-assemble the armature to the chassis, make sure the copper shim is in the right place, as we discussed earlier. On the brush bracket assembly that holds the brushes and springs, I roll up a piece of fine sandpaper and run it through the brush tubes so the brushes slide right through with no sticking. I also use a bright-boy to clean up the sides of the brushes, and then use alcohol to clean it all up.That is, if the brushes are still in good knick. If not, I replace the brushes and springs.On the smoke unit, I use a green or red scotch-brite pad and clean up the insides of the piston chamber, also checking to make sure the little hole is unclogged. It sounds like it's working now, so no worries. Make sure all your linkage is straight, and re-assemble. The red smoke stack is the last thing you put on the loco, and the first thing you remove when you dis-assemble. And that's just the loco,lol... Feel free to post anything else; we're here to help!! Sounds like you got a great little loco at a super price.. I love the little Atlantics.. I had one back in 1955, or should I say Dad had one,lol...


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## upsman55

Wow, that was a great post Flyernut! I think you covered just about everything I could possibly ask about a rebuild. The info on the wire is especially appreciated. I've always been a bit unsure exactly what to use. Funny that you mentioned making sure the linkage is straight. Mine is slightly bent. I will put your suggestions to good use!:smilie_daumenpos: 

Im running a bit late tonight, so the additional pics will have to wait for at least one more day.


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Wow, that was a great post Flyernut! I think you covered just about everything I could possibly ask about a rebuild. The info on the wire is especially appreciated. I've always been a bit unsure exactly what to use. Funny that you mentioned making sure the linkage is straight. Mine is slightly bent. I will put your suggestions to good use!:smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> Im running a bit late tonight, so the additional pics will have to wait for at least one more day.


Not sure if I mentioned this but I still have family down in Luzerne Co. Freeland to be exact.. Also have family in Pottsville... We'll get that little loco running like new....:appl:


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## upsman55

Just wanted to share the modest progress I've made on my 303. And it is very modest progress. Removed the engine and tender shells, and removed the solid core wires I so hastily installed. The new wire is on order and should be here shortly. The linkage appears to be bent, so that will need attention. But next, a good cleaning will be the order of the day. 

This is of course before the solid core wire was removed.









And after









And a look at the linkage









Also, I opened up the smoke unit, and was surprised at how much was stuffed into that small area! But other than one little spot that looked burned, the rest of the wick looked good. Also, any recommendations for cleaning the main body of the locomotive?


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## flyernut

To clean the boiler shell, hot water, dish soap, and a toothbrush for a good scrubbing, then use a shot of Pledge to polish up the bakelite. The same for the tender shell. For the chassis,one of the local hobby shops around here use a ultra-sconic cleaner to really get rid of all the garbage in and around the chassis, axles,etc. I don't know the chemicals they use, but they're not harmful to the white plastic insulators.. I have a small spray bottle of alcohol and soak everything, let it sit, and then just wipe everything down. I've never seen a draw-bar,(coupler and yoke assembly), bent like that before..Easy enough to fix, just bend it back.. They're on ebay all the time.


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## dicgolfer72

+1 on that 
I use one of these 
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-liter-ultrasonic-cleaner-95563.html

and use this cleaner in it from the dollar tree
https://www.dollartree.com/Xtreme-V...-/1155c942c942p297717/index.pro?method=search


I use that combination to clean old associated rc cars from the 80's
its safe on the plastics 
but will remove the finish from anodized aluminum so you may test it first on a small part


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## flyernut

dicgolfer72 said:


> +1 on that
> I use one of these
> http://www.harborfreight.com/25-liter-ultrasonic-cleaner-95563.html
> 
> and use this cleaner in it from the dollar tree
> https://www.dollartree.com/Xtreme-V...-/1155c942c942p297717/index.pro?method=search
> 
> 
> I use that combination to clean old associated rc cars from the 80's
> its safe on the plastics
> but will remove the finish from anodized aluminum so you may test it first on a small part


Now that's some good info...Thanks for posting...


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## upsman55

*Finally back at it*

Well, after a few weeks of distractions, I finally have time to work on my 303. After a few hours work/play, I finished the rewiring. Sadly, I couldn't get the motor to run when I bench tested it. I followed the wiring diagram posted on PortLine hobbies for a 303/313 Atlantic. Replaced the fingers on the reversing unit, cleaned and polished the commutator, and double checked to make sure my connections were correct. 
I tested it by placing the non rotating wheels on blocks,allowing the driven wheels to spin freely. I then connected a lead from a Lionel rw transformer to the pick ups on the tender, then gave it power. That caused the reversing unit to engage and rotate the drum, and the headlight to light, but there was not even a hint of life in the motor. I can also cycle the reversing unit with the direction button on the transformer, but as I said, no motor action.
One last thing, I tried running the leads directly to the brush cans, applied power, and got nothing again. So this is a call for help! Your suggestions are welcome!


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Well, after a few weeks of distractions, I finally have time to work on my 303. After a few hours work/play, I finished the rewiring. Sadly, I couldn't get the motor to run when I bench tested it. I followed the wiring diagram posted on PortLine hobbies for a 303/313 Atlantic. Replaced the fingers on the reversing unit, cleaned and polished the commutator, and double checked to make sure my connections were correct.
> I tested it by placing the non rotating wheels on blocks,allowing the driven wheels to spin freely. I then connected a lead from a Lionel rw transformer to the pick ups on the tender, then gave it power. That caused the reversing unit to engage and rotate the drum, and the headlight to light, but there was not even a hint of life in the motor. I can also cycle the reversing unit with the direction button on the transformer, but as I said, no motor action.
> One last thing, I tried running the leads directly to the brush cans, applied power, and got nothing again. So this is a call for help! Your suggestions are welcome!


Sounds like your new fingers are out of adjustment.. make sure they are contacting the drum.. Use a toothpick to push the fingers unto the drum.. Your engine will not run simply by applying power to the brush tubes. You have to use a "jumper" po run the engine without the loco, but that's hard when the engine is a direct wire from the tender, with no jack panel...If your 303 has the fifth wire going to the jack panel, the wiring will be a little different than with say a 301 or 302. Just remember, if you have a 5th wire, the wiring is different!!!


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## upsman55

Thanks for the quick reply Flyernut! In the short time since I posted I was going through the s scale threads in search of a problem similar to mine. And I did find one that suggested pressing down on the fingers, and I did in fact try that. It made the reversing unit hum slightly louder each time I pressed one of the fingers, but no luck making it run. One strange development though. On one of my test attempts, the loco ran! I was able to turn the power off and on to it several times, and then it just wouldn't run again. Anyway, I read in another thread about checking the resistance in the field and armature. So I pulleed a couple wires, removed the armature,and checked the readings.i got between 1.3 and 1.5 ohms on the field, and 1.5/1.6 between the spaces on the armature. I believe that's good, but not 100% sure. I'm now going to put it back together and recheck my connections. By the way, I direct wired it. No jack panel. And I have to say, for a novice like myself, it was a PIA. Also I do have that 5th wire, and that appeared to be accounted for on port lines wiring diagram. I'll let you know what happens when I get things reconnected.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Sorry I did not read the entire post. Have you cleaned the old grease, dirt and oil from the motor and gears? Often this stuff hardens like concrete and prevents the motor from turning. 
You said the drum is cycling/rotating? Not only check to be sure the fingers are touching the drum, but also ON the copper surface of the drum. I have purchased repro fingers where the copper "finger" strips were minutely too long and just missing the copper on the drum. If this turns out to be the problem, slightly bend the arc of the fingers so that they end up being slightly shorter, but the tip still makes solid contact on the drum. Another item to check, did you install the fingers in the correct orientation? The fingers sets are different, one centered the other offset. Offset goes on top and centered goes in front of the reverse unit. And if the drum rotates then the locking lever is not the issue either....hope any of these helps.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

BTW -- Your resistance readings are right where they should be so they sound fine.


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## upsman55

Well Don, I have to tell you that you were spot on with your analysis the first time. Looks like the fingers are the problem. After I put everything back together, I attempted another test and came up with the same result. Cycling of the reversing unit drum, but no running of the engine. So, I pressed down on the top fingers and lo and behold the motor ran! But that said, it doesn't run consistently yet, but I haven't made the adjustments you suggested yet. That's my next step. Thanks for the input again Don. I'll post my progress.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Great, glad we could help. That's why we are all here. Love to see that baby running later on.


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## flyernut

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in my early days of putzing around with these things, a fella once told me if the wiring is correct, offset fingers on top, centered fingers on bottom, and the drum is rotating the way it should, then try the toothpick trick. If the fingers are not adjusted correctly, the durn thing won't run..Sounds like you're on the way to getting it running..


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## upsman55

Ok after a little tweaking, the loco is running, with one small issue that I'll get to in a minute. I pulled the fingers. Bent them slightly, and scuffed them up a bit with some fine emery paper. Reinstalled them, and after hooking things back up, the loco ran immediately. I then hit the reverse button a few times, which brings me to the small issue. The hinge on the bottom of the solenoid sticks in the up position occasionally. A light tap on the tender releases it, but Id like it to not do it at all. Would a drop of oil be the right thing to use in this situation.


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Ok after a little tweaking, the loco is running, with one small issue that I'll get to in a minute. I pulled the fingers. Bent them slightly, and scuffed them up a bit with some fine emery paper. Reinstalled them, and after hooking things back up, the loco ran immediately. I then hit the reverse button a few times, which brings me to the small issue. The hinge on the bottom of the solenoid sticks in the up position occasionally. A light tap on the tender releases it, but Id like it to not do it at all. Would a drop of oil be the right thing to use in this situation.


This is what I do in that case.. I remove the drum from it's "case". I use a small piece of sandpaper rolled up to fit in the axle holes where the drum rotates. I make sure this is free of any rust, dirt, etc as the slightest bit of gunk can/will gum things up. Next, I bend the little finger that contacts the teeth on the drum. This little bend usually fixes any sticking problems. The little finger can bend ever so slightly over the years. And don't forget to clean up/polish the axle ends on the drum. While the drum is out, a tiny bit of oil on the small brass pivot arm should help.The problem you're experiencing is typical of flyer reverse units.. When you get everything back together, again, a small drop of oil on the drum axles.. I try to run my reverse units as dry as I can, as oil will pick up crud/dirt, and cause it to stick. When the sticking happens, some people will add more oil, adding to the problem. By the way, you have to bend that little arm while the unit is together.. I also polish the inside of the reverse unit to eliminate any rust there.Let us know how you make out.


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## upsman55

Aww man! And after I had it all put back together! But, I am a bit of a stickler for having things done the right way, so I'll be disassembling that reversing unit tonight! Thanks once more for the advice. I feel like I'm back in school!


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Aww man! And after I had it all put back together! But, I am a bit of a stickler for having things done the right way, so I'll be disassembling that reversing unit tonight! Thanks once more for the advice. I feel like I'm back in school!


Sorry about that,lol...I usually take my reverse units apart several times before I can get the thing to work right. By the end of this exercise, you'll be an expert on flyer reverse units... Some people will solder a small spring on the bottom of the plate that moves up and down. The spring helps the plate return to the normal run position. I don't agree with it as if the original engineers thought it would help, they would have designed it that way. There's a reason for the stickiness and a correct fix.... There's a old adage that says when you run flyers, always have a loooooong stick handy to tap the top of the tender to un-stick the reverse unit when it's in a awkward spot on your layout. Good luck!!!:smilie_daumenpos:.. I might have mentioned this in a previous post but Mom and Dad were married in Luzerne County right after WWII. I still have family in Freeland, Pottsville, and Jim Thorpe.


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## upsman55

Hey Flyernut, I actually had to lookup Pottsville,Freeland, and Jim Thorp Pa, on Google maps. I'm a little ashamed that I couldn't remember where Jim Thorp was, since I've known of it for years. Although I'm a fellow Pennsylvanian, I live on the other side of the state in southwestern PA, about 15 miles from the Ohio border. 

Now, as for the reversing unit, I disconnected all wires to it, and removed it from the tender. Then holding it upright in the same way it would sit in the tender, I worked the hinge to rotate the drum to see if I could make it stick in the up position. I couldn't! I was hoping to see something obvious that I could correct. I must have worked that thing a hundred times and it seemed to be fine. That said, I'm going to do everything you suggested except bend that tab and see what happens. I'll update when I get that done. 

And by the way, I'm actually glad I had to take it back apart. I kind of rushed through reassembly, and was a little sloppy with my wires.So I have a second chance to get it right.


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## upsman55

Well, I did the repair work to the reversing unit of the 303, and as you can see by the picture below, its now working fine. On the bench test that is. I followed flyernut's suggestions and took the reversing unit apart, polished up the drum, cleaned everything up, gave the linkage a little oil.(very little oil), and I neatened up my wiring a bit. As you can see by my picture below, my bench testing is a bit primitive, but it worked. The reversing unit did tease me a little though. It was a little sticky at first, but I put a little oil on the hubs of the drum, and it works every time! All I need now is some track, and I can test this thing properly. Yes, I'm so new to AF that I don't even have track yet. I've been looking locally, and have lost an e-bay bid, and called too late once on a Craigslist ad. Frustrating! A local hobby shop is expecting some flyer stuff next week. Hopefully he'll have something. One last thing about the 303...that thing certainly puts out the smoke!! In the short time I ran it, I put a small cloud in my family room!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Regular old Flyer track can be had for like 50 cents each at shows, but may need some cleaning up. If you do go this route, suggest using green scotch brite pad to clean off dirt and rust, then a quick wipe with alcohol to remove any leftover debris. That usually works best to restore it. New track is out there from Lionel (yup, Lionel now makes S scale track called FasTrak), Gargraves and I forget the other one...MTH? It is more pricey to get but better quality and quite dependable.


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## flyernut

upsman55 said:


> Hey Flyernut, I actually had to lookup Pottsville,Freeland, and Jim Thorp Pa, on Google maps. I'm a little ashamed that I couldn't remember where Jim Thorp was, since I've known of it for years. Although I'm a fellow Pennsylvanian, I live on the other side of the state in southwestern PA, about 15 miles from the Ohio border.
> 
> Now, as for the reversing unit, I disconnected all wires to it, and removed it from the tender. Then holding it upright in the same way it would sit in the tender, I worked the hinge to rotate the drum to see if I could make it stick in the up position. I couldn't! I was hoping to see something obvious that I could correct. I must have worked that thing a hundred times and it seemed to be fine. That said, I'm going to do everything you suggested except bend that tab and see what happens. I'll update when I get that done.
> 
> And by the way, I'm actually glad I had to take it back apart. I kind of rushed through reassembly, and was a little sloppy with my wires.So I have a second chance to get it right.


Yup, been there, done that..I've also worked that stupid lever a hundred times and could never make it stick, but put it back on the chassis, and boom, it sticks,lol..:smilie_daumenpos:


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## AmFlyer

Congratulations on your first American Flyer repair! I recommend you start with original Gilbert track and switches. They are easy to work with, reliable and less expensive than the other options. Get a couple of 690 track terminals for power and at least one 706 uncoupler.


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## dicgolfer72

hey if you need track I have plenty 
ill send yo you a priority flat rate box full of 6 straight and as many curved as I can fit 


just pay for shipping 
just shoot me a pm


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## Kwikster

upsman55 said:


> Well, I did the repair work to the reversing unit of the 303, and as you can see by the picture below, its now working fine. On the bench test that is. I followed flyernut's suggestions and took the reversing unit apart, polished up the drum, cleaned everything up, gave the linkage a little oil.(very little oil), and I neatened up my wiring a bit. As you can see by my picture below, my bench testing is a bit primitive, but it worked. The reversing unit did tease me a little though. It was a little sticky at first, but I put a little oil on the hubs of the drum, and it works every time! All I need now is some track, and I can test this thing properly. Yes, I'm so new to AF that I don't even have track yet. I've been looking locally, and have lost an e-bay bid, and called too late once on a Craigslist ad. Frustrating! A local hobby shop is expecting some flyer stuff next week. Hopefully he'll have something. One last thing about the 303...that thing certainly puts out the smoke!! In the short time I ran it, I put a small cloud in my family room!


One word of caution. I never ever oil solenoid plungers. That's a huge no-no in my experience as oil even a little attracts dirt/dust and sticks them. Instead, powdered graphite, 1000% better on all plungers and it's dry. Just like oil, a little goes a long way. On the topic of oil, for me for quite a while it's been, and will always be, plain ordinary motor oil on everything EXCEPT worm gears, and they get Lucas Red-N-Tacky grease sparingly applied.

Glad you got the old gal runnin. With some minor TLC from here on she'll be that way longer than we will.

Carl


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## upsman55

*Finally on Track*



dicgolfer72 said:


> hey if you need track I have plenty
> ill send yo you a priority flat rate box full of 6 straight and as many curved as I can fit
> 
> 
> just pay for shipping
> just shoot me a pm


I should check on my own thread a little more often. Even though I check out the forum almost every day, I missed your offer of track. The crazy thing is that I was scouring craigslist, ebay, my local antique and hobby shops to no avail. But I finally did score a box of 28 straight, 24 curves, 2 pieces of what appears to be 3/4 length straight, 2 pieces of 1/2 straight, 2 manual turnouts, and 4 powered (although pretty crusty) turnouts at a local train show this past weekend. Long story short, I just wanted to let you know digolfer72, that I wasn't shunning you, I just plain missed it!

Now, that said, I got my track,which I am assuming is original Gilbert stuff, cleaned up enough to make a nice oval, and set the 303 on it for a real test run, and it ran!!



















Primitive setup to be sure, but its a start! I'm really impressed with the track. Needed a basic cleaning, and scotch brite on the rails, but almost every pin was intact, and most fit together snugly. Now I have to find a way to get it onto my permanent layout


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## Aflyer

upsman55,
Hey glad you got some track put together, you are on your way now.

Keep us posted, and keep the pics coming.

Aflyer


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## upsman55

Aflyer said:


> upsman55,
> Hey glad you got some track put together, you are on your way now.
> 
> Keep us posted, and keep the pics coming.
> 
> Aflyer


One more thing to share tonight. Here's a brief shaky video of my test run. One hand holding the camera and one running the train! Proof that it really moved.:smilie_daumenpos:

https://youtu.be/MTrfuhwVwXY


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## flyernut

Send me the turn-outs and I'll re-condition them for you, or, check out my turn-out thread that you can follow and do yourself...Just pay for shipping both ways.


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## AmFlyer

Looking forward to pictures of the Flyer setup integrated into your permanent layout.


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## upsman55

flyernut said:


> Send me the turn-outs and I'll re-condition them for you, or, check out my turn-out thread that you can follow and do yourself...Just pay for shipping both ways.


That's a very generous offer, and I think I'm going to accept it. But before you take them in, I wanted to show you a few pictures so you can have an idea what I'll be sending you.










This is actually the worst looking part of all of them.









Here's a view with the covers removed, and mfg dates exposed. 









And a look with the light covers removed.









I was actually a bit surprised when I removed the covers from the turnouts shown above, because I took one of them apart the day after the train show, and it was very rusty, inside and out. I was expecting them all to be in a similar condition. But the internal parts of the others don't look too bad at all. More dirty than anything else. Here's a few pics of the one I broke down.










If the back covers look clean, its because I took them to work, sandblasted them (as gently as i could) and painted them. They're pretty flimsy, but whole.










I wish I would have taken some pictures before I started to clean everything up, to give you a better idea how rusty everything was. I think this close up of the slide is telling.


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## flyernut

They are pretty crusty.. I usually don't remove the solenoid from the switch face, as it doesn't really need to be taken out. As long as it works, we're good to go. From experience, and from looking at your bottom plates, you can't sand-blast them as they'll warp, and I think yours has. So far, you've done exactly what I do to my turn-outs. The rust on the sides of the rails is going to cause some pitting, and you'll never get that out, but it's only cosmetic..


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## chrisallen21

flyernut said:


> Don't run the engine with a dry smoke unit, you'll burn it up.


I am working on a 302 rebuild presently and have removed the old wick, wire, and cardboard box in the smoke unit as it all needs replaced anyways. Can you give more detail in what you mean by 'burn it up'? I had to replace both finger units, springs, brushes, remove old grease and put in new lubricants and was bench testing my work so far. I polished the armature although after reading you post, I think I will need to find someone with a drill press so I can reface it to get any grooves out of it. I guess I want to make sure I am not harming it before I tackle adding a new wick unit (which I plan on doing last since I haven't done this before).

I noticed that the first few times I tested it on the track, she ran beautiful in both directions but each time I try subsequently (usually a day in between), it seems to hesitate/lurch when running (direction doesn't matter). This only smooths out when adding more power but obviously something isn't correct. Could this be related to not having anything in the smoke unit or do you think it is electrical-related? I would have thought it would behave consistently from the start (i.e. hesitant/lurch) if it was electrical related. It doesn't seem to matter where I start from on the test track either so I don't think it is the track.


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## flyernut

chrisallen21 said:


> I am working on a 302 rebuild presently and have removed the old wick, wire, and cardboard box in the smoke unit as it all needs replaced anyways. Can you give more detail in what you mean by 'burn it up'? I had to replace both finger units, springs, brushes, remove old grease and put in new lubricants and was bench testing my work so far. I polished the armature although after reading you post, I think I will need to find someone with a drill press so I can reface it to get any grooves out of it. I guess I want to make sure I am not harming it before I tackle adding a new wick unit (which I plan on doing last since I haven't done this before).
> 
> I noticed that the first few times I tested it on the track, she ran beautiful in both directions but each time I try subsequently (usually a day in between), it seems to hesitate/lurch when running (direction doesn't matter). This only smooths out when adding more power but obviously something isn't correct. Could this be related to not having anything in the smoke unit or do you think it is electrical-related? I would have thought it would behave consistently from the start (i.e. hesitant/lurch) if it was electrical related. It doesn't seem to matter where I start from on the test track either so I don't think it is the track.


How did it run on the bench?? If it ran perfectly, there's either something going on with the track,or power getting to the tender.Start with the tender.. Make sure your insulating bushings are doing their job. Also, make sure there are 2 copper contacts, one on each truck, to insure enough current is getting to the e-unit. Make sure your metal pick-up wheels are clean, and free of any corrosion, etc. I had a 302 do the same thing, and it turned out to be a combination, dirty pick-up wheels, dirty track, and one of the copper strips was missing!! I would look at dirty track and dirty wheels.. If you're losing electrical contact through the trucks and into the e-unit, the engine will go into neutral. Again, I think dirty track and pick-up wheels. And if you're running the chassis with no smoke unit, be sure to wrap any bare wire ends to prevent any shorting. As far as the armature, any drill will work. It's just easy for me to use my drill press..When I say "burn out the wick", if dry, the nichrome wire will get hot and toast the dry wick.


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## chrisallen21

Sorry, I should clarify that I didn't run it on the bench. I was testing with a multi-meter to make sure the power was flowing through to all of the connections (my version of a bench test). I don't have an easy way to test without it being on the track since I am just into this hobby for a few months now. I will have to go back and reread how you suggest to test using alligator clips after building a small stand. The fifth wire on this 302 makes it a pain to work on the engine and tender separately.

I previously replaced the rivet (and bushings) on the front truck of the tender but noticed it was a bit loose so I tightened that up while at the same time cleaning up the copper strip. I suspect it wasn't making the best connection with the truck axle so I bent the strip a little so that it would definitely make contact. It gave me a chance to clean up the copper strip as well as it was looking a little dirty compared to the other one. 

It does run a little better now (although not nearly as good as it should) and strangely enough, seems to run smoother in reverse rather than forward. It is almost as if the front isn't heavy enough and is being pulled up from the tracks and loosing connection (like a kid trying to practice his first wheelie on his bicycle:laugh. I also may end up replacing all of the truck wheels on the tender to eliminate that as a potential problem to help narrow it down.


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## flyernut

On the track it will pull wheelies without the boiler shell on,lol.. My 303, direct wired from the factory was doing the same thing..BUT.. I did notice the hole in the drawbar that attaches the tender to the chassis was very small and tight. I opened the hole up to the size of a older 302, and it cured everything.This is one of the reasons I try and stay away from the direct-wired engine/tender combos. They are a PITA. 283's are the same way, eech..In some cases I just scrap the original wiring and add the jack plug and panel. Running faster in reverse than forward is a clue the armature face is not flat. That's why I use a drill or drill press instead of just cleaning it. You want that face flat.


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## chrisallen21

I ended up tearing it down and refacing the armature as best as I could using my version of a drill press (cordless drill!). Worked pretty good I think (I have included before and after pics). 















I used 1000 grit sandpaper on it. I also cleaned the track with a bright boy and some electrical contact cleaner using q-tips. Ended up with a bunch of black q-tips ends when I was done so the track was definitely part of the problem. 

I put her back on the track and she runs much smoother now. I run about 12 pieces of track in my test oval powered by a 4B transformer and she runs ok at half throttle. If I get much lower it starts to chug a bit but I think the track is still partially to blame for that as I haven't tacked it down to the 4x8 plywood sheet I use and as a result, it isn't completely flat in some spots.

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions and help. I will definitely add the reface step to my next 302 sitting on the bench waiting for me. 

Next up, installing a new smoke kit. This looks a little tricky but looking forward to seeing some smoke out of this old 302.


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## AmFlyer

Interesting armature in that 302. It looks like a PullMor with the small gap between the three poles of the metal laminations. If you look closely at the earlier 303 repair pictures in this thread you can see the wider gap typical of these motors. While I am certainly no expert on 302 motors, the ones I have looked at do not have this armature design. 
If you still have some problems with the engine you can try different thicknesses of washers on the two ends of the armature shaft.


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## chrisallen21

Once I start working on the second 302 I have here, I will let you know if I see the exact same armature or slightly different as you described.


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## flyernut

chrisallen21 said:


> I ended up tearing it down and refacing the armature as best as I could using my version of a drill press (cordless drill!). Worked pretty good I think (I have included before and after pics).
> View attachment 251825
> 
> 
> View attachment 251833
> 
> I used 1000 grit sandpaper on it. I also cleaned the track with a bright boy and some electrical contact cleaner using q-tips. Ended up with a bunch of black q-tips ends when I was done so the track was definitely part of the problem.
> 
> I put her back on the track and she runs much smoother now. I run about 12 pieces of track in my test oval powered by a 4B transformer and she runs ok at half throttle. If I get much lower it starts to chug a bit but I think the track is still partially to blame for that as I haven't tacked it down to the 4x8 plywood sheet I use and as a result, it isn't completely flat in some spots.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for the suggestions and help. I will definitely add the reface step to my next 302 sitting on the bench waiting for me.
> 
> Next up, installing a new smoke kit. This looks a little tricky but looking forward to seeing some smoke out of this old 302.


Looks good, and a hand drill will work just fine. Be sure to clean out the 3 small slits on the face. It does make a difference.How did your turn-outs come out???


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## chrisallen21

flyernut said:


> Looks good, and a hand drill will work just fine. Be sure to clean out the 3 small slits on the face. It does make a difference.How did your turn-outs come out???


I hijacked this thread a bit (sorry hwell so my layout doesn't actually have any turnouts in it. 

I always clean out the three small slits on the face (after reading another post of yours on a similar topic). I am always surprised how much is caked in there.


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