# Lionel 164 Log Loader



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

I bought the 164 many years ago at a train show. It was cheap because it didn't work. I have (after 25 years) finally starting working on my layout with intent. I just finished testing and repairing (24) 022 remote switches that I bought in various condition over the years. Most of them failed the anti-derailing function test.

To my point (sorry). The 164 was a mess. The dump function and lights worked, but not the motor driving the chains. Read somewhere that you need to clean the motor commutators and check the brushes. Took the motor off, only (1) screw holding it on, and sure enough, the com's where black and one of the brush springs needed extending. Fixed it, applied power and it worked. However, the side of the frame where there was a screw, also has a rubber motor mount (I guess), and there seems to be some kind on collar in the frame to center the screw. I assume there is a collar because the other mounting hole in the frame is so large, the screw falls through.

I cannot find any kind of a parts breakdown for this unit, so don't actually know what I am missing. I could 'jerry rig' something to work, but would like to do it right.

Any help would be much appreciated. I am brand new here and looking forward to both getting and giving any help.

Ken


----------



## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, Ken!

There is no diagram of the Log Loader showing the various parts that I am aware of, however there is a listing of parts used in the unit, available here. If you can take a couple of clear, close up pictures of the area involved, perhaps that would help in identifying any missing parts, unless someone with a unit can help you.

Larry


----------



## PW_Oregon (Mar 21, 2013)

*164 repair*

Check out this option for accessory repair articles. They are $13.75, but might have the details you are looking for. Good photo of the 164.

http://www.jwtrains.com/accessories.htm

http://www.jwtrains.com/images/164_web.JPG

Hope this helps?

Walt


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

For the record you have a Postwar version and not the Modern era reissue from the early 90's?


----------



## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

The reissue uses DC motors. Ken noted that he cleaned the commutator and worked on the brush springs. That would indicate the postwar original. As best as can be made out, it sounds like we need a picture of the motor mountings.

Larry


----------



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

*Great Forum*

Thanks to all of you. I will look over the parts list and see if I can glean anything that might give me a clue. Unfortunately the pdf file of the list is "secured" and I can't print it out (unless someone knows the secret).

I will take pictures of the one mount and post them.

By the way, anyone know where I can get the orange 'unload' button for the 97C controller without having to pay $4 for shipping??

Thanks again for the help.

Ken

P.S. Anything I might be able to help with, let me know.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here you go: Online PDF Utilities

You can use the unlock utility to unlock the pages so you have full access.


----------



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you John. Worked like a charm.

By the way, I stopped at OSH this afternoon and picked up a 1/4" spacer with a flange. The spacer fits in the hole and rests on the flange. The thing in the existing mount hole is metal, seems to be pressed in, and is cupped to accomodate the screw head.

Next problem is the #6 screw (that was holding the motor) is a very, very fine thd. I bought some 6-32's but too coarse. The local big hdwre stores may not carry that fine of a thd--based on the parts list it's either -36 or -40. If I can't get a finer thd, I will drill oversize and tap for 8-32. The funny thing is that the #6 screws in the parts list are -32's.

Again, I will try to take some pics tomorrow. I have disassembled the whole thing and will clean, repaint and lube.

Ken


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's probably a 6-36, Lionel was fond of those way back when.


----------



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

*Thank You*

John, I believe you are correct. May have to order some online.

I have enclosed some pic's of the top and bottom of the green base showing the rubber cushion (mount) on the underside, and the two holes from the top. One of the holes has the collar and the other does not. I also included a pic of the flange spacer that I will be using.

Last question (at least for a while on this stupid purchase). As per most of the 164's, the red paint on the roof is almost gone and the green paint on the base is a mess. What type of primer/paint can be used to better adhere to the plastic?

Ken


----------



## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

The Greenberg service manual indicates that there is only one retaining screw for the motor, so what you have may be factory proper.

Here are matched paints for Lionel trains.

Larry


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I was looking at your photos and saw considerable cracking of the wire insulation, not unusual for older Lionel wire. I would definitely plan on replacing the wiring.


----------



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

*No. 164*

Thank you Larry and Al.

I guess that's why there was no screw in the other side. However, (and I didn't take a pic of the motor) both sides of the motor have threaded holes. And since the motor is driving that worm gear, I think I'll put a screw in both sides and see what happens.

As to the wiring, it's a mess. I am planning to redo all of it. I'm also planning to put a little grease on the gears and on the rollers (inside) that the chains ride on, and maybe a little wd-40 on the chains. Anyone see a problem with that.

Also, would still like suggestions as to how to prep plastic roof and base for repaint.

Ken


----------



## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

The motor on the Log Loader was a standard one used in other applications, and was threaded on both sides as you observe. Only one side had a screw in it in the Log Loader application.

You may try soaking in brake fluid to remove the paint. 

Larry


----------



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

*No. 164*

Thanks Larry. I am currently soaking the roof in brake fluid. Bought some paint/won't match/don't care.

Ken


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ken1942 said:


> Thanks Larry. I am currently soaking the roof in brake fluid. Bought some paint/won't match/don't care.
> 
> Ken



some paint/won't match/don't care.:laugh:

I don't know what paint you bought.
You do know that some paint is not good to use on plastic?
If you bought spray cans it should state on the can that it is safe for plastic.


----------



## ken1942 (Aug 26, 2014)

*No. 164*

Hi Ed,

Yes, I know that is an issue. Years ago had to paint the wheel pants for an airplane. They were fiberglass. Had to get a special primer to paint them. I still have the primer and may try it. But, the paint guy at OSH sold me spray cans of paint specifically for plastic and he said to just lightly rough up the surface and paint direct.

Ken

P.S.: By the way, when I get everything repaired, I will take some pic's of my benchwork and accessories and would like to start a thread on layouts. I am somewhat clueless. Have saved years of articles from Classic Trains mag., but I am lost in the details (such as; what do you cover the plywood with before laying track, etc.).


----------

