# Here is what may be a strange question



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

I have a friend, an older gentleman. He is into trains and fish. He has asked me, if he removes all the metal (weights, metal couplers, trucks, etc) from an old boxcar and then sprays it with a clear coat after a good cleaning, would it be safe to "sink" it into his fish aquarium? 

Thoughts?


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

If he drowns it in Future acrylic floor covering he should be OK.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Dano. Is this stuff found at Home Depot or Lowe's?


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Is this a salt or fresh water aquarium? Is the car wood or plastic / styreen? Is the car painted, Decals etc. If it is just a molded plastic car then the best option may be to clean it well and drop it in. Any decals will need to be removed prior.

Any coating over the top needs to be non-toxic and waterproof.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I Am Fasha said:


> Thanks for the reply Dano. Is this stuff found at Home Depot or Lowe's?


Don't know, but I believe it is under the Pledge brand.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks again Dano, I will look into this


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

tkruger said:


> Is this a salt or fresh water aquarium? Is the car wood or plastic / styreen? Is the car painted, Decals etc. If it is just a molded plastic car then the best option may be to clean it well and drop it in. Any decals will need to be removed prior.
> 
> Any coating over the top needs to be non-toxic and waterproof.


Thanks for the reply TK! It is fresh water, the boxcar is plastic, it is factory painted with decals in the old "Southern" brown. I may just clean it good for him, have him drop it in and have water tested a few days later.


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

Now you are talking on both my hobbies! When I moved and lost my basement, I took up fish again. 
There are lots of variables here. One is how the guy feels about taking risks. Sounds like he is okay with that part. Then there is what type water he has. Some water like in the Northeast US is much more likely to be soft acidic water. This has a far greater possibility of anything added making big changes in the water. Ph is not really as important as many think but if there is little hardness (minerals) in the water, things can change quickly. This makes it hard for the fish but can still be worked around IF he has the experience and knows how his fish act. If he adds it and the fish react badly, he needs to take the correct action. If there is no change or his fish are not that valuable to him, he may want to just wait and see. 
No firm answer as there is no way to tell what fish/water/pollution combo he will have. 
Some safe/ some kill the fish! 

If he is at the level where he has his water tested at the store, he is prone to not being too experienced. Many people find the store tests are pretty lame. This is a area where I would not want to trust the results to a place like Petco!


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Dano said:


> If he drowns it in Future acrylic floor covering he should be OK.


It's good stuff in the model world but I would not use it submerged. Far too many variables.

Testing the water would be pointless - aquarium testing revolves around nitrogen reduction and PH - voluntarily introducing unknown toxicity is walking dangerously close to foolish.

The plastic itself can and likely will leach phosphates into the water.

If this friend is intent on proceeding, I'd advise placing the boxcar in a separate container of RO/DI water, and administer Lanthanum Chloride. It works as a binding agent for phosphate and a number of other harmful chemicals that may be present, but are typically not tested for.

Best of luck with this.


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Dumb question....why does it put that stuff in the fish tank?


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Carl said:


> Dumb question....why does it put that stuff in the fish tank?


Are *you *talking to me? Are you *talking *to me? Are you talking to *me*?

( I love Al, and RIP James)

Many normally benign substances are used/incorporated into various plastics to enhance or endow the object with certain characteristics. Submerged in water these substances naturally move from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration.


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

It might be noted that phosphate is added to tanks routinely and not found to be dangerous to fish. High phosphate may lead to algae growth but that is not a big problem in most cases. 
The other chemicals are still an unknown. I would not do it in a tank with my best fish but I have lots of other fish which could be tried as they are to be culled anyway. 

If one is put off by killing fish, they should not get very far into breeding!


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

The New Guy said:


> Are *you *talking to me? Are you *talking *to me? Are you talking to *me*?
> 
> ( I love Al, and RIP James)
> 
> Many normally benign substances are used/incorporated into various plastics to enhance or endow the object with certain characteristics. Submerged in water these substances naturally move from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration.


No I was not talking to you....I was asking a question about why model train parts being put in the bottom of the tank. It just seemed rather strange that model train parts would be placed in a fish tank. Nothing negative was intended by the question.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

The New Guy said:


> Are *you *talking to me? Are you *talking *to me? Are you talking to *me*?
> 
> ( I love Al, and RIP James)





Carl said:


> No I was not talking to you...Nothing negative was intended by the question.


Sorry Carl, that was my best Al Pacino impersonation. Taxi Driver. With the passing of James Gandolfini yesterday I was just reminiscing, some of my favorite characters, and Tony Soprano took me to the godfather...II...

anyway, I didn't intend anything there...


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

I can understand the question of why put a model in a fish tank. Lots of things go in tanks that I would never want in my tank. Have you seen some of those that like the look of trash thrown in? That is one that turns me off in nature and I sure don't like the look for my tanks but then some do, so fine with me as long as they don't insist on the look for my tank. 
When we get down to it, which is more likely to be found on the bottom, a boxcar or a mermaid?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Pfunmo said:


> I can understand the question of why put a model in a fish tank. Lots of things go in tanks that I would never want in my tank. Have you seen some of those that like the look of trash thrown in? That is one that turns me off in nature and I sure don't like the look for my tanks but then some do, so fine with me as long as they don't insist on the look for my tank.
> When we get down to it, which is more likely to be found on the bottom, a boxcar or a mermaid?


In Jersey a box car. 

Though we had a few mermaids swimming around too. 


A box car would be cool for the fish, give them a secure place to sleep if the doors are open. :thumbsup:

PF you stated this, Some water like in the Northeast US is much more likely to be soft acidic water. 

I have hard water here in Jersey. 
Is that the same thing?


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

Hard and soft is different to the ph value, probably independant too. Ie ypu can have soft acid (low ph) or hard acid water.

I think a sunken train car could look quite cool. I've seen pictures of a tank with a sunken computer monitor and keyboard and mouse. Looked much better than expected!


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

Normally I think of hard/soft referring to mineral levels in the water. Those minerals are often from water running through rocks underground but it can be from lots of other things as well. So that leaves it hard to say what water will be like in any given place. Here in the central US, much of the underground water lives in limestone and it picks up lots of calcium making it hard. In areas where there is less limestone and maybe the rocks are more likely to be granite or marble, They tend to erode much slower so the water may be soft. But even that is a quick guess because water can be quite different even within miles of two wells. I am told that the water from College Station , Texas is totally different than what we find here in Austin. The city has a deep well and gets water from near a salt deposit. What we get into is that water is not just water and until we check our water, we really can't say what it has and how it will react when we do something. 
From there it often comes down to how bold and how well trained we are! Luck, also?

I'm guessing there are lots of ways for boxcars to get in the water! Floods, trestle collapse, barge sinkings? If there's locos off the East Coast, there's likely to be some boxcars, too. Think we shipped any to England during WWII?


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

What about brass boxcar?


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

That's an area where there is a lot of different thinking. I don't worry at all about metal ion my tanks. Some has been there for many years. Some would not go there at all as heavy metals are often stated as a real problem. 
There are lots of things that can change the answer as to whether it is safe or not. Type of water? Acidic water would logically degrade metal quicker. How tolerant are the fish? Shrimp don't like it! How often and how much water is changed? I change 25-50% weekly. What type of water treatment is used? Prime states that it takes care of heavy metal problems. 

Many feel all metal should be avoided, but then they have missed some things that make it worry me less. Older tanks were framed with metal which was often in the water. Old filters used metal parts throughout before plastic came online more. Many fish live and breed in metal stock tanks. Lead plant weights and titanium heaters are pretty common. But the big item for me is that my water is already in metal from the time it is pumped (metal pump) through metal pipes for miles and stored in metal water towers before reaching my house where it goes through copper pipes into brass faucets. My water has been in metal for days or weeks before it reaches my tank so I worry little about a small brass boxcar killing fish. 
It may offend my eye but I don't think it kills my fish!


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Rather than a boxcar on the bottom of the tank, how about a boxcar containing Jimmy Hoffa's remains. Then you can invite the FBI to your home to search for Jimmy Hoffa.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

LOL Carl, the FBI would then spend $200,000 to come raise it LOL!!!

On a different now, Thanks to all the replied with info. In the end, I passed along all the info and opinions and he decided to sink it after a good hot water only cleaning and watch the fish for a reaction. If they start to act funny he will pull it out. When I hear something back from him, I will pass it along here


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like a reasonable approach. While there IS some risk involved, we all take risks everyday. Stepping out the door can get us killed. Setting at the computer can also. We just need to think it over and be ready in case it turns bad. 
There really is no way to say how his fish may react. I am often told that I should not use cedar in my tanks. People give many reasons but I like the look of gnarly old cedar and use it often. The different reactions people find has to be due to the variables involved. Best of luck to the friend. That is often how we get things done that we really find pleasing.


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