# S Scale time



## rsv1ho

Drove the golden spike in my HO layout concluding the first phase of that adventure so thought I would try to get my one and only S scale locomotive operative. Posted about it here before.

I read where these were offered on both AC and DC varieties, this one looks like a brushed DC motor to me, so after insuring that the armature was free to rotate I applied max DC to the brushes through a cheapo power supply to no luck. Tried AC for grins with the same result.

The tender which I have not opened has some sort of a lever on the bottom. 

Can someone give me a quick tutorial on just what I have and the means to get it running.

The AF transformer does not work, open field windings. 

Thanks


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## mopac

Nice looking HO layout. I am pretty sure your S loco can run on AC or DC. Your reverse unit in tender might be gunked up from looks of things. Also the wire harness from tender to engine could have a broken wire. Very common. Try this. Find something to support
front and rear of loco so driver wheels can run but loco not go anywhere. Unplug and remove tender. Connect the 2 center holes of engine plug with a piece of wire. The 2 wires from transformer, one in each of the 2 outside holes in the plug. You have now bypassed the tender. See what you get. You may get nothing running if grease has hardened around wheel axles. Let us know if it runs. And we will go from there.


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## mopac

You have a lot of work ahead of you on that loco. Cleaning mainly. It can be made to run like new. Looks like all parts are there.


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## mopac

If it does not run hooking wires up like I suggested it will be time to take loco apart.
Wait for instructions for that. That lever on bottom of tender is a reverse lock-out.
Makes it so loco only goes forward.


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## rsv1ho

Got out a better power supply (MRC Tech2) and got movement forward and reverse DC, not much but enough. Also got movement with AC.

Straightened the crimps on the tender and removed the shell exposing the AC? reversing mechanism. Ancient cloth covered wires look good.

Don't understand the need for AC as the DC direction switch reverses the motor. AC maybe for smoke? Looks like this one has a smoke unit in the locomotive.

This shell is metal not plastic. I think 4 or 5 screws will remove the shell. I hate messing with valve gear though, but it need a good cleaning to work properly.

Will a HO transformer have the power to run this?


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## AmFlyer

The motor on that engine is an open frame, 3 pole, series connected universal motor. Connecting wires to just the brushes bypasses the field and is not good for longevity of the armature. I would first spray some electrical contact cleaner on the armature. It is also possible the motor will not turn due to dried grease on the worm gear or linkage binding.
The lever under the tender is part of the reversing unit. It is used to lock the engine in one direction or to allow it to sequence through F-N-R-N.
Connect power wires from a known good supply. That little blue one will not work, it is only 5VA. At least 2A is needed, 25 W or 25VA would be the absolute minimum. The AF transformer in the picture should do it if it is working.


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## mopac

Looking back at your pcs, that clamp will support the loco fine to try my wiring.


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## AmFlyer

Connect the power as Mopac described. It appears the reverse unit is missing a finger and the one on the top looks to be worn through so the reverse unit needs to be rebuilt.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks for that. I don't want to do harm. I will try your method but which holes, this plug has five.

This is a good site.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...eos/search?q=1950s+American+Flyer&FORM=VDMHRS


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## mopac

Glad it ran some. Till it is oiled and greased it will not run well. Before you try to remove body, remove the tube you see looking down the smoke stack. It just unscrews. Use small screw driver to unscrew. Remove the 2 screws at front of frame. The back of frame is held by 2 plates. Loosen the 2 screws that hold the plates. Just loosen them. After the smoke tube is removed, front 2 screws removed, the frame will slide backwards and away from those rear plates. First remove the screws in each driver wheel and that will release rods from the wheels. Leave valve gear attached to body for now. That hole in the plug
with the brass rivet is nothing, disregard it.


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## rsv1ho

mopac said:


> Glad it ran some. Till it is oiled and greased it will not run well. Before you try to remove body, remove the tube you see looking down the smoke stack. It just unscrews. Use small screw driver to unscrew. Remove the 2 screws at front of frame. The back of frame is held by 2 plates. Loosen the 2 screws that hold the plates. Just loosen them. After the smoke tube is removed, front 2 screws removed, the frame will slide backwards and away from those rear plates. First remove the screws in each driver wheel and that will release rods from the wheels. Leave valve gear attached to body for now. That hole in the plug
> with the brass rivet is nothing, disregard it.


Thanks, and yes, went back and checked the tenders plug, only four contacts.

Bob


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## mopac

also remove 2 screws holding the engine plug. Let plug go with frame and motor.

important to remove that smoke tube


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## AmFlyer

Ignore the riveted hole. The jack panel on the engine cab should not have that riveted hole, I wonder if a prior owner rewired the engine as a 5 wire configuration. The 5th wire was always directly soldered to the engine mounted jack panel. The wiring on the reverse unit was modified from factory configuration. This engine would have been made as a standard 4 wire.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks guys, you saved me a lot of trouble getting this thing apart.

Got out the old 2 amp MRC and got the armature to rotate a few turns, needs a full cleaning. Thinking about removing the motor and soaking the drive gears in Simple Green to remove the old lubrications. 

Didn't find the two plates at the back of the engine. I just removed the screws to the valve gear. They will have to be polished individually anyway. 

Found the body dated Nov 1946/8? and gave it a sudsy bath, first layer off it and the handrails. 

That cylinder and piston must be the smoke unit?


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## AmFlyer

It is a 1948, the wire handrail versions are the most desirable. The piston "thing" is the smoke and choo choo unit.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks, I have been looking at AF transformers on eaby. Prices and quality are all over the place. I have narrowed it down to a few, but will my HO 8V amps MRC on my present layout run a AF locomotive? 

Someone once said that a 100 watt was best.


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## AmFlyer

No, in fact I had a much earlier version of that Dualpack way back when I had some HO trains. It is only 8VA, slightly more than .7A at 12VDC. 
A 35W transformer will run the engine, a 25W should but it may overheat. If you are buying one, 100W per control is the minimum you should buy. That would be, in a single control style a 4B, 8B, or if you want a deadman feature a 15B. Dual control would be a 12B, 18B or 30B. The B in the number indicates it has a circuit breaker in the output of the transformer.


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## rsv1ho

AmFlyer said:


> No, in fact I had a much earlier version of that Dualpack way back when I had some HO trains. It is only 8VA, slightly more than .7A at 12VDC.
> A 35W transformer will run the engine, a 25W should but it may overheat. If you are buying one, 100W per control is the minimum you should buy. That would be, in a single control style a 4B, 8B, or if you want a deadman feature a 15B. Dual control would be a 12B, 18B or 30B. The B in the number indicates it has a circuit breaker in the output of the transformer.


Thanks Tom,

I have a bid on this one that ends within the hour on ebay. Not risking much as I just want something to test this locomotive. Advertised as "works" it comes with another untested for a starting bid of five dollars, but shipping on these is killer. 

If it runs, and cleans up nice then I will look for track and a better power supply.

I'm pretty sure that it will run as my 2 amp tends to turn it over even as gummed up as it is.


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## AmFlyer

That is a prewar AF transformer. It will run the engine you have. Some of those prewar units have more the three binding posts for power output, if this has 4 make sure you use the correct two posts.


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## rsv1ho

AmFlyer said:


> That is a prewar AF transformer. It will run the engine you have. Some of those prewar units have more the three binding posts for power output, if this has 4 make sure you use the correct two posts.


Thanks Tom, rear view. I lightened it up a bit to show just three connections, but looks like it's 100 watts. May increase my bid.

Bob


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## AmFlyer

Its an older 8B, 100W. Go for it.


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## mopac

You got the body off. Cool. Yes it is a 1948. I have 2 of them. Great locomotives.
I run my S engines on a MRC transformer. A 501 I think. Looks like yours but a single control. Actually I use a Lionel transformer to run my engines on track but I use the MRC for testing. 3rd pic up you can see the plates I was telling you about. They are L shaped.
They hold the rear of the chassis. Your plates don't have screws, they must be welded on.
That s fine. Those plates are actually called motor mounts. When you take the brush cap off watch for the brush springs to go flying. Carefully remove the wires to the brush tubes. The tubes are where the brushes and springs are. 2 screws will remove the brush cap. With cap off kinda unscrew the armature from the motor. Watch for small washers and where they go. The brush springs will go flying when you remove the wires from the brush tubes also. The small washers will be on the armature shaft. Start a list of things you will need to buy. None are expensive. When you are ready to order we can suggest a place to buy them. Start your list with brushes, springs. and a pair of fingers. Fingers go in your reverse unit. Those wire handrails
should be removed and use one of those green scotch brite pads on them. Your wife might have one for you in the kitchen.
Much of the rust on them can be removed by leaving them in a vinegar and water bath. Leave them overnight. Then use the green scrub pad. They will look new.

The later locos had the handrails molded on a plastic body.


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## rsv1ho

AmFlyer said:


> Its an older 8B, 100W. Go for it.


Bought and paid for.

Sniped myself at 5 seconds. Seller started it at $5.00, I bid $6. Upped it to $36, ended up at $5 as I was the only bidder. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-F...QWh2peY20M%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

Shipping is $15,

Thanks mopac. I have rebuilt a few starters, mostly on my ATV a Honda Ranger and a few small locomotive motors. You need three hands and a good eye, and I have neither.

Bob


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## rsv1ho

Really got it running this morning. 

Cleaned the valve gear and wheels with Simple Green which eliminated a lot of the crud. Removed the drive gear cover and found dried white grease, got to clean those next. 

Applied a little light oil to the gears and ran it. Does ok but I think the smoke units piston is dragging things down. How is it lubricated, or is it lubricated? 

I find very little maintenance information regarding these on the net, can't even find a manual. Is there a PDF out there someplace?


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## mopac

I would unscrew the piston rod from the main gear. Pull out piston. Wipe the inside of
cylinder and apply a small amount of Vaseline to inside of cylinder. Spread it with a finger.
Re install piston and screw back to gear. Then a very small amount of oil to anything that moves. If you have some kind of needle oiler I would oil the driver axles. Probably a good
time to remove the brush cap and pull out the armature. Watch where the small washers go. Face of armature will be black and you should reface it. Armature will
have a worm gear on one end. The gear should be cleaned. A little oil on each end would help. Re install armature. Replace brush cap. The cap should have an oil wick.
Near center of cap. Looks like a small piece of felt in a hole. Oil that hole. Some grease now on that main gear. See if it runs better.

Small drop of oil where the side rods attach to wheels.

You are close to having that thing humming along. Not on the track but on test bench. Your tender still needs a lot of work.
Those wheels are atrocious. For metal tender wheels I use Twinkle. Its a copper and brass cleaner. Got my jar
at local grocery store. The way the wheels are now the electric will never flow.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks, If I remove the side rods and worm gear am I going to upset any synchronization that will have to be resynced when I put it back together. 

Any problems separating the frame and reducing the whole thing to pieces? 

Headlamp is burned out. Found some on ebay two for around $3.00 + shipping. Opted for 10 for nine something with free shipping. A lifetime supply.  

Contemplating media blasting the metal and give it a respray. Cab roof has a dent and a split that needs torching and fixing. Not much collector value here. 

Then there is that tender. What does all that apparatus do, just provide reverse?


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## Sagas

The attached schematics may help you out. Barry


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## mopac

No problem with going out of synch with removing side rods or worm gear (armature)

I would not split the frame. Wheels would have to come off and putting them back
on could cause a quartering problem and ream holes in wheels. Skip that.

Tender picks up the track power. No power pick up on the engine. And the reverse.
You could wire things up like your testing is. You can get track power from the rivets
that hold the trucks on of the tender. (after you clean those wheels and the strips that touch the axles)
You could just solder a wire to each truck rivet and then to the outside plug holes. Center 2 holes connected.
Like you have now.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks Barry, Printed it out. It will be a big help when I put it all back together.

I just took the whole thing apart save unsoldering the connections. Brushes look good but the springs are toast. Found new ones on ebay for around $10 but may order a package. Looking for a vendor that sell parts and liquid smoke so I can bundle. 

Tender next. Yes, I notice wheels are different, one side non-conductive the other pick-up, different front and rear. Complicated mechanism though with sliding electrical contacts. 

I will have to label and unsolder the cloth insulated wires. Most of these I see are trashed, but these are quite good. Trying to save them.

Media blast everything paint and reassemble. Torn between satin black and gray. Would love to find 302 decals. 

One last dip in Simple Green to remove that dried grease then put away until parts come in.


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## mopac

Cool beans. You will want to order your parts (springs and brushes) from Jeff Kane
at TrainTender.com. We always just call him with our orders. He is cheaper and very
cool to buy from. Get his phone number from the web site. You can also check out prices
on the web site. You can get new 302 and the graphics on tender at PortLines.com. Call
them to order. Doug Peck is his name. They will be dry transfers. That's what we use.

That reverse unit is not that hard to rebuild. If you go that route let us know and we can help.

Yep, springs do not look good.

There should be at least one small washer on each end of armature.

And yes you need to reface that armature.


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## mopac

You will be an American Flyer mechanic in no time. LOL.

Once you can work on one of them you can pretty much work on any of them. And there are many.

Before you put new brushes in clean the insides of those tubes. I clean them with Q tips and alcohol.

I noticed you have a chipped whitewall on one of your drivers. You can leave as is or use some white paint
to fill in. Check my thread titled "Got a new one coming". I just got a chipped whitewall a couple days ago.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks, That will be an upgrade from my normal British MGB wrenching title. 

First layers off. Simple Green did not clean the gears to my liking. Will have to resort to a solvent. I was thinking "white-out" for the wheel but an oil based white should be better..

Thanks for the links, will check them out.

That commutator is rough, might have to chuck it up in the drill press and at low speed resurface it. I only found one shim,


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## mopac

When you order brushes and springs get another shim. One on each end should work.

Your side rods and valve gear look pretty good. 

The locomotive looks a ton better already.

Be careful, these old steamers can be addictive.


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## rsv1ho

Discovered that I could remove the hand rails by just removing the lower forward keeper and twist them out. Simple. 

Disassembled the tender for media blasting. Can I pry the trucks apart and remove the wheels? Tried it, but fear bending the tin.


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## mopac

Yes on the wheels.


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## Sagas

Yes, you can remove the wheels by gently pushing the truck sides outward from the middle of each side with your fingers or if you have a miniature reversible bar clamp or large snap-ring plyers. They will bend slightly but you can squeeze them back when re-installing the wheels. If the journal boxes are too badly rusted I think Jeff Kane has some replacements. Barry


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## mopac

Sagas, I bought a snap-ring pliers to get my wheels out of the sintered trucks.
Works great. No tool needed to get wheels out of the tin trucks.


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## rsv1ho

Couldn't get the ring pliers to work so used my old HO method and popped the wheels out with a screwdriver behind the wheels and a twist. 

Tender relay is something I don't understand. Used for reversing? I could reverse the locomotive using the power supplies direction switch in variable DC mode. Relay for AC operation only? What is the ratchet step for?

Media blasted (Aluminum oxide) the diecast and stamped parts after drifting out the bell and whatever that is just ahead of the cab. Did the wheels too.


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## mopac

Wow, it looks so clean. Good job. Does not look like same engine. Did you fix the cab roof.
Ratchet part turns the drum inside reverse unit. Drum is what the fingers rub against. You can get drum out by spreading
sides of reverse unit. Polish the drum. The copper part. You should replace the fingers with new ones.
We use CRC spray to clean guts of reverse unit. Yours looks clean. There is a solenoid in there. Each time power is
applied it kicks the ratchet one notch which turns the drum one notch. AF engines sequence Forward-Neutral-Reverse
Neutral- and forward again.


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## AmFlyer

Looks good after the media blasting. That is a universal motor. It runs the same with AC or with DC power. The reversing unit (it is not a relay) is for changing the direction of the engine. It does this by changing the direction of current flow through the field relative to the armature. The field and armature are wired is series.
To run this only on DC and be able to reverse the engine by changing track polarity a bridge rectifier must be added to the motor wiring. It would be better to buy one of the DC engines Gilbert made. Some of the 342's and 332's were made with DC permanent magnet motors. There are also direct replacement DC can motors made for these engines that include the worm gear. They can then be run and controlled like HO engines.


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## AmFlyer

The wiring diagram for using a bridge rectifier and DC track power is in Clinic #42 on the PortLines web site, page23.


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## rsv1ho

Not much luck with the cabs roof.

I hollowed out a hockey puck (great item for use as a base) to the contour of the roof then used a butane torch to heat it then a ball peen hammer to round it out. Guess I reduced the damage by about 50% but lost a small chunk of metal for my effort. I'll live with it. 

But then disaster struck. I noticed that one of the field leads was broken off. Probably happened during the disassembly process because I know it worked before. 

I tried to solder the two bitter ends back together, but you know how that goes. Looks connected through a magnifying glass but it shows an open on the meter when I should be seeing at least a few ohms. 

Got on-line and found a replacement set for $18 and change, but maybe I should have waited and got a replacement as outlined above. Either way the replacement armature looks better. Retainers for the brushes are different but that doesn't concern me. 

Warm here in WV, may get to paint it today. Decided on satin black. I used carburetor cleaner on those drive gears, cleaned them and the surrounding area of all that dried on grease.


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## mopac

Broken field leads are kinda common. I have had one. And of coarse it was on bottom of the coil. I unwound all the wire. Soldered the lead and started winding. Got all but about 10 feet back on. I could not wind as neat as AF did. Anyway, it works great. I have one steamer with a brush cap like your new one. From the 40's. Its amazing that parts are not hard to find.


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## mopac

I have one repainted steamer. In fact it is the exact same model as yours. It was
painted with Krylon black satin. You will be happy with the result.


I was born in Charleston, WV. Moved away when 3 or 4. All my family was there but they
are all dead now. Might have an aunt left there but that is it.


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## Tom_C

OT. My family is from the Charleston/Huntington area. My dad was born and died in Poca, but left the area to join the navy and lived other places until he moved back before his death. I think I'm probably related to some degree or another to half of the Kanawha valley.


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## rsv1ho

Small family we have here.

I was born and raised in small town New Hampshire. Married the prettiest girl in our class, heck, the whole school. Joined the Navy and we spent the next twenty years there. 

Had three kids, two girls and a boy. Boy took a job with Raytheon as a systems engineer with a job in DC. but settled in Winchester Virginia and commuted. 

Many years later the two girls joined him and took positions in Winchester and moved to West Virginia. Wife and I moved from Florida to WV to be near the kids. 

To lazy to get out the air brush and mix paint but Krylon rattle can really did a nice job. Ran the paint on the tender though and had to sand blast it again. 

Got to wait to get the new motor parts giving it time to cure before I reassemble. Casual seller/shipper on the transformer - "seven to fourteen business days" so no need to rush things.


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## Tom_C

Ha! After the navy dad got a degree on the GI bill, became a teacher and we eventually ended up, wait for it, in Winchester VA where I grew up, went to school, and commuted into the DC area until I moved to NoVA where I live now... and work as a systems engineer. System administrator, but close enough.  Oh, and my wife and I bought property in the mountains of WV for our retirement home, north of Moorefield. Oh, and before Winchester we lived in Florida until the teacher strike in '67 or '68.

Sorry for the side track. But I am also learning how to fix S scale, so it's all good.


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## rsv1ho

Tom_C said:


> Ha! After the navy dad got a degree on the GI bill, became a teacher and we eventually ended up, wait for it, in Winchester VA where I grew up, went to school, and commuted into the DC area until I moved to NoVA where I live now... and work as a systems engineer. System administrator, but close enough.  Oh, and my wife and I bought property in the mountains of WV for our retirement home, north of Moorefield. Oh, and before Winchester we lived in Florida until the teacher strike in '67 or '68.
> 
> Sorry for the side track. But I am also learning how to fix S scale, so it's all good.


Darn Tom, we're twins. 

Mom taught school for about 35 years before retiring and moving to Florida. She was one of the first to qualify and draw teachers retirement from the State. She lived to be almost 105, they lost money on her.


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## rsv1ho

Well I'll be. A hundred to one, maybe a thousand with my 82 year old shaky hands. Slapped it back together using the old brushes and springs hooked it up to the power supply and it starting walking over my workbench. Somehow I soldered those ends back together. I did tin each end and they did align, but I never expected this. I'll take it. 

I taped over the build date hoping to save it and the wheels turned out nice, but I did fail to completely protect the trucks getting some overspray. Going to try to remove the paint from the brass? cap and hand paint the trucks.


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## mopac

Looking good. Its alive!!! Its alive!!!

What kind of blaster do you have. What kind of medium did you use?


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## rsv1ho

mopac said:


> Looking good. Its alive!!! Its alive!!!
> 
> What kind of blaster do you have. What kind of medium did you use?[/QUOTE
> 
> Harbor Freight, pictured when it was new.
> 
> Doesn't look like that today. Aluminum oxide, also from Harbor Freight. Couldn't live without it. Restored three MG's using it.


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## mopac

My son is a manager at a Harbor Freight store. May have to talk to him about one.
Just what I need, something else for the garage. Got 3 car garage and can't fit a car
in any of them. Too much lawn equipment. 2 Lawn and garden tractors, a simplicity
and a John Deer. A Harbor Freight chipper shredder, a good size wagon for leaves and
whatever. 2 lawn mowers, along with gas trimmers, chain saws, anyway you get the
picture. No trains in garage. I do have a Davey Crocket toy box in there. No toys in it.
Got the toy box when I was a little guy. Used to have some cool big metal trucks in it.
I don't remember what happened to my trucks. I guess mom gave them away. The box
and the trucks are worth some coin today.

Almost forgot. I have 2 big Harbor Freight US General tool boxes on wheels in garage also. A table saw, good size air
compressor. A table out of my grandma's house. 2 tables from
my mom and dad. And I have a one car size storage unit rented for my trains and toys. Heated and cooled.
I get a little carried away with my hobbies.


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## rsv1ho

Well worth it. Time saver and problem solver. Get a couple of extra nozzles.

Ordered 32 pieces of used AF track today. Power supply should be here tomorrow. 

Yes, solenoid vs. relay. Found the clapper. Operates the sequential ratchet for some strange reason that I still do not understand. Funny place to locate the selector. Why not just run on DC and change directions that way?


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## AmFlyer

The ratchet rotates the drum with the contacts on it each time power is cut and reapplied, this rewires the field and armature connections to reverse the motor rotation. Supplying DC power to the engine will not cause the motor rotation to reverse when the polarity is changed, it is a universal motor. In order to use DC to reverse the motor it needs to be rewired and a Bridge rectifier added inside the engine. I provided instructions of how to do this in a prior post.
Back when these toys were made 4A rated selenium disc bridge rectifiers were half the size of the engine and cost almost as much as the engine. Today we can get very small 4A bridge rectifiers very cheap.
Gilbert made some DC only engines with permanent magnet motors beginning in 1948. They were dropped from the line for several reasons. Most customers preferred AC similar to Lionel. At the start of the Korean war the magnet materials were rationed stopping production of them for toy trains. Technology to make inexpensive 100VA DC power packs did not exist. Gilbert used vacuum tubes, they burned out and were expensive to replace. Even the outboard selenium disc rectifiers were big and expensive. Wiring the layout was more complicated with fiber pins required when AC only required the transformers to be plugged into the outlet correctly.
Probably more than you wanted to know.


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## rsv1ho

Sorry Tom, forgot about your rectifier tutorial. But, when first fooling with this thing I swear I saw the armature change direction when I reversed polarity on the HO MRC transformer. Eyes maybe.

Got one on my 1966 Honda S-90, all heat sync. 

Looking at the pictures above #38 you can see that someone replaced one of the wipers with what looks like 12 gauge wire.


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## rsv1ho

Win some, lose some.

Previously bought a used transformer for $12 that did not work, then last week I found two more on ebay for $5 advertised as one works other is a ? Just got them in and both work. 

Also got some track, thinking about building a layout under my existing HO railroad. Suspended beneath, grades, maybe a crossing. Eye level when laying on the carpet. Maybe...…..

A picture is worth many words when putting these back together.


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## Sagas

Its looking great. Just goes to show what some time and patience can do. I understand why you would want to mount the layout under the HO (the supports are already there) however, if it were me I would attempt to mount it above and light the HO below with strip LED lighting under the S then have the control panel mounted beside the HO (just my take on it). I wish I had more time to stick with a project to completion.

Currently still working on a pair of Switchers and hope to complete next month. Barry


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## mopac

You have done an amazing job of bringing this locomotive back from the grave.
Unlike us I do believe these locos can go forever. Mine will be around when I am long gone.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks guys, but I have run into trouble. Not difficult for me to find.

Trying to save the original wiring from tender to locomotive I found that one of the outside wires had separated internally, just pulled right out of the cloth. Got on line and found a replacement but I wanted to see if this thing would run on track today. Thought about splicing on a wire but gave up on that, don't think that it would accept solder. So...….got to wait for the replacement.

In the meantime. How do you connect the transformer to the track. I find no specialized track section with connectors so I just soldered on some wire?????

Used a picture to ensure I got the wheels back on correctly. Also ordered new "fingers" for the tender unit. 

Locomotive is done for the time being. Incredibly it runs with all the original parts including those bent up brush springs and resoldered winding wire. I was surprised when I connected power to it from the new transformer and it took off like a scared cat. 

I have replacements for all, now that I'm comfortable taking it apart and putting it back together again it will be easy to replace all those defective parts.


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## Sagas

You need a #690 Track Terminal as pictured. They are readily available. Barry


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## mopac

I use the wires soldered to bottom of rails. Hardly shows and you have a solid hookup. 
The track clips work most of the time.


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## rsv1ho

mopac said:


> I use the wires soldered to bottom of rails. Hardly shows and you have a solid hookup.
> The track clips work most of the time.


I have that track clip that Barry posted somewhere in my model railroad spares, often wondered what it went to.

I found it difficult to tin the rails, I was just using my pencil soldering iron, will have to get out the gun to do it right.

That box of ten headlight bulbs I bought won't fit in my S scale. Chinese, they are a thread to tall. Probably fit the Lionel O scales. Ordered some new ones along with "fingers" and the new tender to locomotive wires. Thinking about making my own and covering with heat shrink tubing until the cloth covered loom arrives.


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## rsv1ho

New fingers and wiring loom should be here this week so I threw caution to the wind and soldered in new wires. Got the solenoid working the ratchet but no go on the locomotive. 

Whole thing comes apart again, but thought I would give it a try. I know the engines motor works because I hard wired it. 

Kind of anxious to get the smoke and chug chug going. But that HO BLI T1 Duplex with sound has my heart.


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## alaft61ri

R those new wires they look heavy from the picture u should use flex wire .


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## AmFlyer

The problem might be that the photo shows the wiring diagram for a 5 wire engine and there are only four wires going from the tender to the engine. If you are planning to convert this to a 5 wire hookup double check the connections, they are different in both the engine and the tender.


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## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> The problem might be that the photo shows the wiring diagram for a 5 wire engine and there are only four wires going from the tender to the engine. If you are planning to convert this to a 5 wire hookup double check the connections, they are different in both the engine and the tender.


The wiring diagram shown IS for a 5 wire hook-up.And you are 100% correct, they are very different...And don't use those wires either, they're too stiff, use super-flex 22 gauge stuff. I was making up 5th wire connections for folks who wanted a plug in type that goes into the 5th wire jack, but I had no interest in the wiring so I quit making them. I think I have some around yet...


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## flyernut

[email protected] said:


> R those new wires they look heavy from the picture u should use flex wire .


100% correct buddy.


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## flyernut

Here's the 5th wire plug with wiring I spoke about in my previous post. If anyone needs one, I have enough materials on hand to make around a dozen or so.....$5 bucks.....Continuity checked, ready to go....


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## rsv1ho

From my post above:

_New fingers and wiring loom should be here this week _

Wiring was for test purposes. Not to get excited it will be replaced. In fact I have new springs, armature, brushes, and windings all to be replaced. 

Found these people on ebay. Great service from them, got the items today.


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## flyernut

rsv1ho said:


> From my post above:
> 
> _New fingers and wiring loom should be here this week _
> 
> Wiring was for test purposes. Not to get excited it will be replaced. In fact I have new springs, armature, brushes, and windings all to be replaced.
> 
> Found these people on ebay. Great service from them, got the items today.


I use fingers that are riveted to a white fiber-board. They are stiff and thick, and should last a hundred years... As for the wiring, I buy the 4 wire cloth-covered wire by the foot from my supplier, it's around $1 per foot, and I usually get 12 feet or so.That knocks the price down to .50 cents for a wire harness for a 302 style loco or a 312 style loco. You probably paid around $5 bucks or so plus shipping for your harness. I also get 22 or 24 gauge super-flex wire for .50 cents a foot. I can get it cheaper but you have to buy larger quantities, say 100' or so. Just saying, whatever works for you.


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## rsv1ho

flyernut said:


> I use fingers that are riveted to a white fiber-board. They are stiff and thick, and should last a hundred years... As for the wiring, I buy the 4 wire cloth-covered wire by the foot from my supplier, it's around $1 per foot, and I usually get 12 feet or so.That knocks the price down to .50 cents for a wire harness for a 302 style loco or a 312 style loco. You probably paid around $5 bucks or so plus shipping for your harness. I also get 22 or 24 gauge super-flex wire for .50 cents a foot. I can get it cheaper but you have to buy larger quantities, say 100' or so. Just saying, whatever works for you.


More than that, $12.95 for the harness and connector. But it's a one-off for me, probably the only American Flyer engine that I will rebuild. I gather that you repair these as a business or for recreation. 

I find them fascinating. I love the concept of chug, chug and smoke. And the size is near perfect, slightly larger than HO and more substantial.


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## flyernut

rsv1ho said:


> More than that, $12.95 for the harness and connector. But it's a one-off for me, probably the only American Flyer engine that I will rebuild. I gather that you repair these as a business or for recreation.
> 
> I find them fascinating. I love the concept of chug, chug and smoke. And the size is near perfect, slightly larger than HO and more substantial.


As I re-read my post, I hope you didn't think I was questioning your purchases, I was just saying that there are alternatives.I do alot of repairs as I buy basket cases and like to rebuild/restore them back to original as a hobby. I do repairs for my good buddies here on the forum, and I like to keep costs at a bare minimum, sometimes just for shipping costs..It's not always possible but I try...I had Flyers as a kid, and have loved them ever since. That's about 70 years of loving them,lol..


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## mopac

If you keep it to one Flyer, you are a better man than me. I wanted 3, then it went to 7,
and then 10. Somewhere around 20 now. I am pretty much done buying engines now.
I tend to go a little overboard on hobbies. HO was a fiasco. Over 130 HO locomotives.
500 rolling stock. All boxed now. This includes 3 Big Boys. No one needs 3 Big Boys. But, at the time I NEEDED THEM. LOL. I have a one car size storage unit rented for my toys. I need help but won't go to the doctor.


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## rsv1ho

Thanks guy, and I think that we are peas in a pod. 

I feel your pain, but it's a pain that when it's bad it feels so good. A few months ago I had about five HO locomotives, left overs from what I had sold on ebay some 25 years ago when I got out of the hobby forever, or so I thought.

Now I would hate to add up all the trains (steam, diesel, rolling stock, accessories) that I have purchased in the last four months. I just know that it has drastically depleted my mad money account.

Son was over this morning and figured out what I had done wrong with 302. Embarrassing, so I won't elaborate. Suffice it to say, I'm 82 and don't read anymore. Just jump right in. You really can't teach an old dog new tricks. 

There might be a couple of my originals shown, but most have been bought recently. Nothing spectacular outside of the Y6 Mallets and Big Boys and many of the others were purchased as parts engines, but I enjoy them all.

Bureau is filled with stuff I have no room for on the displays. Still save all the boxes. Boxes within boxes. Makes no sense.


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## AmFlyer

There are a lot of HO engines there. You have a neat setup. It is possible to store a lot of HO in a small space, S gauge seems to take relatively more space than the difference in scale would indicate. I have a relatively small AF collection but it takes a 200 sq ft room to store it, that does not count the space taken up by the layouts.
By the way Mopac, I think you need as many BigBoys as there are different road numbers available. I only have one because Lionel only made 4014 in S gauge.


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## alaft61ri

I just started iam only 60 the young pup my wife and kids ask what i will do with all that after i said when it comes to a point i cant do it any more i will sell them no one in my faimly is into trains i do it because it is fun and i enjoy going to the the shows and talking to u guys


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## dooper

I just shared some of these responses and pictures with my wife. She has told me, that I had to tell all of you that when you get ready to sell, you are to not tell me.


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## mopac

That is a great display of HO locomotives. One heck of an American 4-4-0 collection.


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## rsv1ho

mopac said:


> That is a great display of HO locomotives. One heck of an American 4-4-0 collection.


Thanks, first indication that I might be obsessed with model railroading years ago. One of my first models bought many years ago and safely tucked away. Love the old American 4-4-0's.

"Won" another on ebay last night. Snipped at the last second by someone that thought he would like it more than I would. Not so. My proxy was high enough to ward off interlopers. Cost me another nine bucks running the total minus shipping to $21 and change. 

Some would think - not worth it. But I need the parts totaling to more than $40 if bought individually. 

But, I will probably restore it as it's the lighted edition.

Still working up the courage to solder in the new parts on the S scale. I may leave that to my son who has steadier hands.

Bought three transformers. The first one did not function at all. The second and third bought as a pair not much better but the lesser of the two (75W vs. 100) works fine but needs a new power cord. Other one shows 15VAC across the outer terminals but no variable AC at all.


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## mopac

I like the American 4-4-0s but I only have one. It is a Bachmann with motor in tender.
A very poor runner. I am planning a park scene on my HO layout and it will be a static
display in the park with a small fence around it. Similar to Horse Shoe Bend area park.
They are beautiful locomotives but so small they are normally not good runners. I do
have a 4-4-0 that is a great runner. Bachmann Spectrum. Modern 4-4-0. DCC and sound. It is belt driven, no gears. Almost unbelievable how smooth it runs. I almost did
not buy it when I found out it was belt driven. I read reviews on it and they were good.
Glad I bought it.


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## AmFlyer

If you plan to use the No.2 transformer be aware it has no circuit protection of any kind.


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## yd328

Very nice HO collection, I like the 4-4-0s.

Gary


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## rsv1ho

AmFlyer said:


> If you plan to use the No.2 transformer be aware it has no circuit protection of any kind.


Right now Tom it's my only choice. Going to investigate why no voltage across the variable terminals of the 100 watt transformer. Hopefully it's a loose wire, regrettably it's probably an open winding.


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## AmFlyer

Since there is 15V across the fixed terminals the winding is good. It is likely there is a bad connection or the wiper is not making contact with the windings.


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