# help layout accommodate two trains



## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

this is the inner loop of my proposed layout - i would like to run two trains

can you help me convert this layout? - change layout? - add to this? to create a situation where two trains can operate at the same time? any ideas much, much appreciated 

rdeal


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

The basic way to do this is to use blocks. Blocks are separate (electrically) sections of track around your layout that can be switched on and off. The goal is to never have two separate trains occupy the same block. 

This is usually accomplished by turning off a block in between the two trains. As the lead train leaves a block it will turn that block off and the one behind the block it just turned off back on. This sequence continues like marquee lights so that there is always a 'dead' block between the two trains.

The attached PDF is a three part article from Popular Science Magazine begun in December of 1930 (this has been done before). In it the author describes a system for multiple trains with home-made relays. The method should become clear in the article.

Lionel also included instructions in its early manuals, but I will have to extract the pages to stay within the 5mb limit.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, if you're very electrically inclined and want to get into a lot of wiring and complicated switches, you can do it Bob's way.

There are two much easier ways.
1) Just run two trains. You won't be able to control them separately, but you should be able to figure out how to stagger them on the tracks so you don't have to worry about them running into one another for a long time.
2) Look into converting to Digital Command Control (DCC). You do have to plunk down a bit of cash up front for a starter system and some decoders (microchips) for your locomotives, but ultimately, this will give you much more satisfaction, because you simply run the trains, independently or in consist, and don't have to fiddle with switches and multiple transformers. If you just want that basic layout and up to ten trains, no fancy turnout controls or anything, you can get a Bachmann EZ command and 2 decoders for about $150. If you want something a little more capable, or wireless operation, then you can either step up to Bachmann's Dynamis system, or an intro set by one of the big players (Digitrax, Lenz, MRC, or NCE). These will cost more, (at least $300, including decoders, depending on which make and model you choose), but they are more flexible and expandable, and most of them have an R/C wireless option.

The choice is up to you, but you owe it to yourself to at least give DCC a look.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

You don't have to be electrically inclined and it's not very complicated, but you do have to be able to follow instructions.

Remember this is a feature kids have been wiring for 80 years.

You do have one problem intersection at the 45 degree crossing that would not allow you to just run two trains. Sooner or later they would collide!

Here are the pages out of the 1954 Lionel Instruction manual that might be easier to read although much briefer. Lionel used track pressure switches for train detection, but it is usally easier to simply use an isolated outside rail and relays.

I included the last page simply as a reminder that two separate tracks are the easiest way to run two trains and what you find most often in Christmas gardens (quick setup for a public display).:smokin:


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

thanks for you quick and through answers / suggestions

may i apologize - i did out that i am going to use fastrak and lionel legacy control system

thanks for your help - any suggestions are always helpful 

rdeal


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rkenney said:


> Remember this is a feature kids have been wiring for 80 years.


Kids used an abacus for millennia to make calculations. Didn't stop us from moving to the pocket calculator.

My 11 year old son converted his own layout to DCC. Not likely he would make this on his own.



rkenney said:


> You do have one problem intersection at the 45 degree crossing that would not allow you to just run two trains. Sooner or later they would collide!


Like I said, you could run them for a long time without worrying about it.... not forever. Unless they were perfectly speed matched, they would eventually collide as well. Eventually, this runs up against the requirement for HOG (Hand of God) intervention, no matter what.

So for O scale, some of the smaller DCC sets might not have enough power, you would have to check that, but it doesn't change the essential concept of what I said.


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## rdeal (Mar 6, 2013)

"CTValleyRR" - where do i purchase and how do i install the "HOG" option

rdeal


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

If you can afford the space to extend the right side of your layout a foot or two, you may want to add one more piece of straight track to each side, going 'down' on your layout plan. On the lower right side you have a 'S' curve, and those can be troublesome.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> Kids used an abacus for millennia to make calculations. Didn't stop us from moving to the pocket calculator.


...and your point is?



> My 11 year old son converted his own layout to DCC. Not likely he would make this on his own.


So you agree with me that you don't need to be electrically inclined your son can do it and he can't add without a calculator.

Thanks for sharing!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

rdeal said:


> thanks for you quick and through answers / suggestions
> 
> may i apologize - i did out that i am going to use fastrak and lionel legacy control system
> 
> ...


I'm confused. You have the Lionel legacy control system. The way I
read the advertising material for that, it is somewhat similar to
DCC and as such, your controller will individually control your so
equipped locomotives. You can easily run 2 trains at the same
time on that layout. There is no special blocks or wiring needs beyond
the requirement to make sure track power is equal in all sections.

Did I miss something?

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rdeal said:


> "CTValleyRR" - where do i purchase and how do i install the "HOG" option
> 
> rdeal


You were born with it. You install it by reaching over your layout, grabbing the train, and repositioning it.

If you don't have this accessory installed, purchasing it requires tens of thousands of dollars.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> You were born with it. You install it by reaching over your layout, grabbing the train, and repositioning it.
> 
> If you don't have this accessory installed, purchasing it requires tens of thousands of dollars.


Even millions of dollars!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

rdeal said:


> "CTValleyRR" - where do i purchase and how do i install the "HOG" option
> 
> rdeal



Read what he said again you must have missed this, HOG (Hand of God) in it.


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