# Couplers for HO



## tomeiterman

It has been many many years since I have been involved with model railroading and am just getting back into it. With so many companies making products, are all of the couplers on the new engines/cars compatible. If not, what are recommendations for a universal coupler to replace with.

Sincerely,

Tom E.


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## shaygetz

Welcome...if they advertise having magnetic knuckle couplers, then they are compatible. Most better trains come with them now. Older equipment and toy trains tend to come with what is called a horn/hook coupler, also known as X2f or NMRA types. Kadee Products .... http://www.kadee.com makes just about any manner of retrofit for most popular brands to convert to magnetic knuckle type.


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## tomeiterman

*Thank you*

I appreciate the fast response and the good information.

Sincerely,

Tom E.


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## Stan kolak

*Ho couplers*

The magneti couplers are good if tou have the setup to decouple. Most of the older came with horn-hook as mentioned. The ones that I have converted to is a straight down pin type, don't know the name. It enabl;es me to decouple trains in a freight yard with a pin alignment track adaptor. Thus far, I am the only person in our train club that can decouple trains, HO or O gauge. Many in HO don't seem interested in decoupling. On "O" gauge, they use swish sticks to decouple trains when we have a meet. This straigfht pin design has been around perhaps longer than the horn-hook, as I used it on my boys trains in 1973.


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## gerrya

*Are old compatible with new*



Stan kolak said:


> The magneti couplers are good if tou have the setup to decouple. Most of the older came with horn-hook as mentioned. The ones that I have converted to is a straight down pin type, don't know the name. It enabl;es me to decouple trains in a freight yard with a pin alignment track adaptor. Thus far, I am the only person in our train club that can decouple trains, HO or O gauge. Many in HO don't seem interested in decoupling. On "O" gauge, they use swish sticks to decouple trains when we have a meet. This straigfht pin design has been around perhaps longer than the horn-hook, as I used it on my boys trains in 1973.


If you do have the older "Horn Hook" Style (I have Athearn loco's and cars from the 80's) are they compatible with todays newer couplers? Would be kind of a pain to have to change all the old couplers?


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## shaygetz

gerrya said:


> If you do have the older "Horn Hook" Style (I have Athearn loco's and cars from the 80's) are they compatible with todays newer couplers? Would be kind of a pain to have to change all the old couplers?


I'm afraid that you will have to make a choice as horn/hooks are incompatible with all others. There is an option that a lot of modelers use in changing from one kind to another. IHC makes the Magic-Mate coupler, a magnetic type that couples to both types of coupler. I would put those on my engines so that I could couple to anything while I was in transition.


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## trainman23

Hi

I am getting back into trains - had experienced the horn-hook couplers types that it seemed most all manufacturers (at least at entry level) used. Now see that Bachman has its "ez mate" knuckle coupler. I am looking at giving some new trains as gifts - have purchased a Bachman set but was interested in an additional set by Lifelike but want to achieve compatibility. What is least expensive way to get there? Change out all of the Lifelike to Bachman, vice-versa, or change both to a third party product, Kaydee perhaps? Please comment!

Thanks

Art


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## shaygetz

Welcome to the forum, Art.:thumbsup:

The best and least expensive way I've found is what's called a transition car...basically a car with a horn/hook at one end and a knuckle type at the other. I now keep both types as this keeps the value of the more collectible ones, the transition car helps me meld them into a regular train. It doesn't work well for regular switching moves but is more than satisfactory for just running them.


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## Southern

shaygetz said:


> Welcome to the forum, Art.:thumbsup:
> 
> The best and least expensive way I've found is what's called a transition car...basically a car with a horn/hook at one end and a knuckle type at the other. I now keep both types as this keeps the value of the more collectible ones, the transition car helps me meld them into a regular train. It doesn't work well for regular switching moves but is more than satisfactory for just running them.


That's what I did. As I started upgrading I would start with the last car of a train and work my way up. 13 years later I still have both on the layout.


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## cidjackaries

I never thought of a transition car before, I might just do that, today I got my grandfather's collection (He passed away a few years ago), all of them have horn couplers and all the engines are non-DCC. What I have done is I have a box full of kadee couplers and replacement wheels so I can quickly upgrade and fix anything before I place them on the layout. DCC on the other hand, I have to go to my LHS and restock my DCC cards. (Bought way to many engines at the last train show).


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## tworail

First person to post after me will get a set of Kadee couplers (new in the packet) and a HO NMRA standards gauge - free!

Now, let's see who spends alot of time on this forum


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## Southern

tworail said:


> First person to post after me will get a set of Kadee couplers (new in the packet) and a HO NMRA standards gauge - free!
> 
> Now, let's see who spends alot of time on this forum


ME ME ME!


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## tworail

Stump33366 said:


> ME ME ME!


Great. Please PM me your address  And your name 

I do have some other goodies lying around I need to get rid of (and mostly not junk either) so keep your eyes on the forum and get ready to post if you see something like this again.

regards,
John


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## trainman23

Hi Everybody!

Thanks for the fresh suggestions for dealing with the coupler compatibility issue. Too bad I missed out on the Kadee offer earlier but I expect to be acquiring some based on what I have learned on this and other threads at this website and others.

Thanks Again!

Art


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## dana345

hi,
are there any addvantages other than uncoupling that the new style couplers have over the old horn and hooks?
thanks,dana345


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## tworail

Well, any Kadee style couplers as well as the new ones actually look like the real thing - whereas horn hook couplers look nothing like the real thing


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## smallcaboose

Knuckle are easier to unhook too ! Well, for thumbs finger like mine at least.


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## stationmaster

Some of the local clubs are mandating Kdtee's here. A good deal for the club scene, as all members' cars would be compatible on the line. Personally, I like Kadees. They also offer different lengths to accommodate the various set backs and overhangs of the different manufacturers.


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## Southern

*Thanks Tworail*



tworail said:


> Great. Please PM me your address  And your name
> 
> I do have some other goodies lying around I need to get rid of (and mostly not junk either) so keep your eyes on the forum and get ready to post if you see something like this again.
> 
> regards,
> John


Thanks for the HO stuff. It will be used soon.

John


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## tworail

Southern said:


> Thanks for the HO stuff. It will be used soon.
> 
> John


Glad you got them! Sorry it took so long I work from home so sometimes it's hard to get out to the post office! Plus I'm lazy


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## stationmaster

Kadee has a chart that gives the proper coupler for rolling stock and engines of different manufacturers. I have one but have no flippin' clue where it's at in this mess. Could someone find it and post it, giving proper due to the place you found it?


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## tw001_tw

stationmaster - you mean this?

http://www.kadee.com/conv/holist.pdf
at http://www.kadee.com/conv/ho.htm ?
Just happen to see your request. sorry if I'm off the mark.


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## stationmaster

Looks good to me and VERY familiar. Now if we can just get someone with some computer literacy here to post the .pdf file as an image and make it a sticky.


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## Southern

tw001_tw said:


> stationmaster - you mean this?
> 
> http://www.kadee.com/conv/holist.pdf
> at http://www.kadee.com/conv/ho.htm ?
> Just happen to see your request. sorry if I'm off the mark.


Thanks for the link I just printed it out.


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## trainguru

I have a collection of European Model Trains (8 Steam Locomotives, 14 electrice, 2 diesels, and 8 passenger), and they all have ethier no or one coupler on them, how do I convert the electrics, diesels, and lilliput steam locomotives, to the good o'l US of A's couplers? My dad and I got them inexpensive (you'd never believe it), and they run well, so I'd like to use them on my layout. Help if you can, God bless and thanks.


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## shaygetz

These may work for you...

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page17.htm

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page19.htm

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?autocom=custom&page=Kadee-Resources


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## Greatscott

Its great when you can look through a forum and find the EXACT thread you are looking for. 

I'm just now diving back into trains, and the new couplers confused me at first. I asked the guy at the LHS about them, figured he should know, half the store is trains; after about 5 minutes of searching the internet he said he didn't know... 

So, it looks like the two most common brands are the Kadee and the Bachman, and I think most would suggest the Kadee. How about setting up the magnets, I have seen layouts with fixed magnets, some with electro magnets and others with the magnest on a plastic stick?


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## jzrouterman

I use most Kadee #5s. I put Bachmann EZ Mates on my Athearn engines because running them together with Kadees would short them out. My Atlas engines came equipt with Accumates. Two of my Atlas engines are over ten years old and are still running on their same original Accumates. 

My two Bachmann engines came equipt with EZ Mates. The only ones that I had a problem with were the McHenrys that came with the Athearn engines and cars. Because they're smaller, at times I would have trouble disconnecting them from the others. I have since changed them out with Kadees on the cars and EZ Mates on the Athearn engines. The Accumates, Kadees and the EZ Mates have all benn comaptable with each other.

I don't use magnets under the track, as they leave a lot to be desired. I mean, sometimes they'll work and somestimes they won't. So when I want to disconnect, I use the Kadee hand held uncoupling wand. It works with all knuckle couplers, regardless of their brands. With the couplers offset to each other, I then push the car(s) to the desired location, then pull away. This is the reason I have transformers scattered throughout my layout. I can do these uncoupling operations without having to keep walking back and fourth between the transformer and the disconnection site, and at my age, this is very welcomed. :laugh:

Routerman


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## shaygetz

jzrouterman said:


> I use most Kadee #5s. I put Bachmann EZ Mates on my Athearn engines because running them together with Kadees would short them out.
> 
> I don't use magnets under the track, as they leave a lot to be desired.
> 
> Routerman


Ditto...the Athearns will short out if you use regular KDs, they do make a special coupler for this as well.

I don't use the magnets either. I find that a long sandwich toothpick (the kind with the colorful cellophane fright wigs) with its point placed in between the knuckles of the couplers, then given a clockwise twist, is all that's necessary.


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## NIMT

Greatscott,
I use Kadee electro magnetic ones and S & L Enterprises fixed magnetic fixed ones. Both do an excellent job if you set them up right and if you set up your cars right!


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## jzrouterman

shaygetz said:


> Ditto...the Athearns will short out if you use regular KDs, they do make a special coupler for this as well.
> 
> I don't use the magnets either. I find that a long sandwich toothpick (the kind with the colorful cellophane fright wigs) with its point placed in between the knuckles of the couplers, then given a clockwise twist, is all that's necessary.


Sounds interesting because that's all I do with my hand held uncoupler. But with a toothpick? :laugh: I'll have to try that. Great idea!!. 



NIMT said:


> Greatscott,
> I use Kadee electro magnetic ones and S & L Enterprises fixed magnetic fixed ones. Both do an excellent job if you set them up right and if you set up your cars right!


I've never tried the electric ones. The one I'm talking about is the one by Kadee that is made from a small piece of thick magnetic sign material (for lack of a better description) that comes with a small piece of thin metal that's the same size. Besides I like using my hand held uncoupler. 

I don't like using anything that's going to cause me a lot of stress and frustration. If something does'nt work, rather than to become totally frustrated with it, I'll just find a better way. And for me, my hand held uncoupler is that better way. Why? Because it works like it's supposed to without having to go through a lot fuss getting it to. Besides, I enjoy getting in there and becoming a part of the action.

Routerman


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## shaygetz

jzrouterman said:


> Sounds interesting because that's all I do with my hand held uncoupler. But with a toothpick? :laugh: I'll have to try that. Great idea!!.
> 
> Routerman


Alas...I can't take credit for that idea...the club I was a member of used it, as well as several of its members. I recall it being mentioned in an MR article as well...


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## Massey

I have never had an Athearn loco short another out. But then again my Bachmann locos are all steam and they dont run with my Athearn (all diesel). I could easily see this happening if bachmann use the left rail to the frame and Athearn uses the right rail. One way to solve this if you still want to use the metal couplers is to isolate the frame from the pickups. I dont have much experience with Bachmann diesels but on the athearn it would be a simple matter of getting a small piece of plastic and glueing it to the truck were the pivot and pick up point is at the frame. Make sure that you dont cause the truck to bind here either. 

Isolate the truck pick up using a piece of plastic to fit the truck and frame. 
Isolate the lower motor to frame pickup point as well. Either bend/break the tabs and/or use some electrical tape on the bare part of the frame.
Isolate the headlight.
Solder wires from the front and rear truck to the lower motor tab.
Solder a wire from the lower motor tab (or front truck) to the outer shell of the headlight.

This will isolate the frame and allow you to use metal couplers with Athearn BB engines with no shorting. If you wanted to take this one step (ok maybe 3 steps) further to improve the engine keep reading

Remove the cross over tab that goes from truck to truck over the top of the motor.
Solder wires from the truck hooks (where the tab you just removed contacs the truck) to the top of the motor on both front and rear trucks.
Solder a wire from the top of the motor or front truck to the copper tab that connects to the headlight (or to the center contact for the headlight)

Now you have just completed a very good modification to the old Athearn BB engines. One of the weaknesses of this engine is the contact points, you have now just eliminated those weaknesses. This modification takes about 15 minutes. 
The Athearn RTR and some of the Genesis engines are based off the old BB locos but they have removed the old contacts in favor of the method I discribed above. Be careful tho some of the RTR engine use the exact same chassis as the BB engines and still use the chassis for headlight power. If this is the case they too will short using metal couplers. You can isolate the frame just as I describe above with those engines as well too.

Massey


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## jzrouterman

Massey said:


> I have never had an Athearn loco short another out. But then again my Bachmann locos are all steam and they dont run with my Athearn (all diesel). I could easily see this happening if bachmann use the left rail to the frame and Athearn uses the right rail. One way to solve this if you still want to use the metal couplers is to isolate the frame from the pickups. I dont have much experience with Bachmann diesels but on the athearn it would be a simple matter of getting a small piece of plastic and glueing it to the truck were the pivot and pick up point is at the frame. Make sure that you dont cause the truck to bind here either.
> 
> Isolate the truck pick up using a piece of plastic to fit the truck and frame.
> Isolate the lower motor to frame pickup point as well. Either bend/break the tabs and/or use some electrical tape on the bare part of the frame.
> Isolate the headlight.
> 
> Massey


Back when I first got into model railroading, doing what you have described is exactly what I did simply because back then it was a have to, as Kadee was the only one making knuckle couplers. Everyone else made the horn hook type.  

Nowadays, knuckle couplers are made by several different manufacturers. So, I just simply take advantage of this and install EZ Mate on my Athearns and the shorting problem is instantly solved.  The Bachmanns came with EZ Mates and the Atlas' came with Accumates. On my cars however, EZ Mates don't ever seem to last. So I replaced them with Kadee # 5s. Unlike with the EZ Mates, The Kadees render much better service with the constant pulling and pushing caused by a lot of switching. 

The funny part about it is that the EZ Mates on the engines have never seemed to be affected by this anywhere near as much as how the cars were. Same kind of couplers. Go Figure.  

Routerman


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## gustovski

with that shorting problem just isolate the coupler so that there is no eletrical path to the tip of thr coupler


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## Smokinapankake

I've been using Accu-Mates exclusively on my Athearn locomotives (and cars as well) for many, many years with excellent service. I don't use the uncoupling pins or any magnets anywhere; rather, I just use Accu-Mate's switchman tool. No fuss whatsoever. And the other thing I like about the Accu-Mate's is the fact they only make two models of coupler - regular and medium shank lengths. This makes deciding which one to use really easy. 

I use the medium shank on my larger diesels (SD40-2's, Trainmaster) so they won't pull the freight cars sideways off the track on my 22" radius turns. Adding a little weight to the cars seems to help also. The regular shank (shorter than the medium) goes on all my freight and passenger stock.

I think the biggest reason I like them (Accu-Mates) is that they aren't Kadee (never really liked the near monopolistic hold Kadee has or had on the coupler scene) and they don't use any of those tiny little copper springs to get lost; they allow me to run without the little trip pin hanging down. I never have had my Athearn diesels short out, but that's because the couplers are plastic. They are plenty strong to withstand multiple diesels pushing/pulling on each other at different speeds. I've lashed up 15 diesels at one time just for fun, and the breaker in my MRC Tech II 2500 tripped before any of the couplers gave out. I've run 25+ car trains without any problems. 

The one weakness I can see with the Accu-Mates is that because of the limited availability it is a little more difficult to find them, and also because there is very little variety in what Accurail offers, certain applications (Steam or diesel, entry-level stuff like Tyco) can be difficult to line up properly height-wise or mount. But the plus side to that is that they come with a complete draft gear box to help simplify mounting. 

These are just my opinions, take them with a grain of salt.....


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## Shanman

*VERY new to trains*

Hi everyone. I've read all of this thread and my simple mind still cannot put it all together. Bottom line: I need to know what ONE coupler to use on all of the random cars I have collected since my oldest son was a child (he is now 19). 

The deal is, I purchased a corkey's circus train for my oldest (I have three boys, the youngest are 7 and 4) and have periodically set it up maybe once a year. I don't usually have much success as my engines tend to not work well, couplers break, couplers don't match, and the latest is that I opened the tupperware box they are in and the engine became disassembled and I don't know how to put it together. Oh well. 

Oh, and the mis-matched is because over the years I have picked up random cars that I or the boys have liked. 

Fast forward to present day. My youngest sons want very much to play with the train and I have a big mess. I've ordered a few used locomotives and they will arrive soon. But I still have the coupler mess going on. Broken, missing, mismatched. Judging by all of the previous posts, there are lots of good couplers. But I want to make it easy for the boys. I'd like to just change them ALL to the same ones. 

And here we are. What are your recommendations? Or am I oversimplifying this? Maybe it's impossible and I just don't know it. Any advice you have would be WONDERFUL!


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## NIMT

Simple Kadee's
Most cars and loco's take #5's but go to kadee's website Here for the conversions.


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## shaygetz

Yeah Corkey's Carnival Caravan...










A way to make that Corkey run better is to add wipers, a fairly straight forward addition that really help the engine run much better...

http://misterbobsmodelworksemporium.blogspot.com/2012/02/ihc-ho-scale-fairbanks-morse-c-liner.html


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## New Berlin RR

to answer this...

Least expencive way to most exxpencive listed from top to bottom

make an adapter car (NMRA on one end, ez-mate on the other)

convert your engines to what shaygetz suggested (for get name of the coupler)

convert from NMRA to kadees





trainman23 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am getting back into trains - had experienced the horn-hook couplers types that it seemed most all manufacturers (at least at entry level) used. Now see that Bachman has its "ez mate" knuckle coupler. I am looking at giving some new trains as gifts - have purchased a Bachman set but was interested in an additional set by Lifelike but want to achieve compatibility. What is least expensive way to get there? Change out all of the Lifelike to Bachman, vice-versa, or change both to a third party product, Kaydee perhaps? Please comment!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Art


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## New Berlin RR

*HO Couplers*



stationmaster said:


> Looks good to me and VERY familiar. Now if we can just get someone with some computer literacy here to post the .pdf file as an image and make it a sticky.


on it....

EDIT: done


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## New Berlin RR

*HO Couplers*

here is the PDF for the Kadees so you can figure out what you need on your engines so you don't have to go hunting for the info I provided the link and the PDF (attached)

http://www.kadee.com/conv/holist.pdf

credit goes to the original creator of the file, im just uploading here to allow for easy finding of the list, so if a mod/admin could kindly sticky this I would be grateful 

original can be found at http://www.kadee.com/index.shtml


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## Lee_R

stationmaster said:


> Looks good to me and VERY familiar. Now if we can just get someone with some computer literacy here to post the .pdf file as an image and make it a sticky.





New Berlin RR said:


> on it....
> 
> EDIT: done


Pete, the way I'm reading that, he wants it converted to an image file, then posted and made sticky.

Stationmaster, correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, please - and if I'm not, will you settle for four separate image files (since it's a four-page .pdf)?

<Stay tuned, coolness is about to occur!>


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## Lee_R

*HO Coupler Conversion List*

*The Kadee HO Scale Coupler Conversion List, per link below:*

*http://www.kadee.com/conv/holist.pdf*

(conversion list © 2012 Kadee® Quality Products Co., used with permission)

===

Mod edit --

A link is best here, that way, if the conversion list is updated by Kadee, it's automatically reflected in the link.

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Some confusion going on above ... you guys were posting in two different threads ... one "HO Couplers", one "Couplers for HO".

I've merged the threads / posts into one discussion here.

TJ


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## Lee_R

Donkey shorts, TJ. Always nice to know, since I was about to email the Kadee folks and let them know about this, ask if it was okay for me to convert/post the file, and tell them that if it wasn't okay, I'd ask "The Powers What Be" to delete the post!!

(or, I could edit the post and remove the links...or delete the pictures from where they're stored... You get the idea)

My wife is Executive Editor for a water-quality magazine, targeted at dealers more than consumers. As a result, I've gotten pretty "aware" about copyright issues. I "should" have emailed first, posted after, but I've got their copyright statement right off their file there so they "might" cut me a little slack.


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## New Berlin RR

oops, i meant to post it here by bad TJ...lol!!!


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## trainguru

*Soapbox Time: Don't Shoot the "Magic-Mate Man"*

I say, equip atleast a few locomotives, and cars, with IHC "Magic-Mate" couplers, that way, you don't have too many issues with couplers in the future, and you don't have to convert all at once, to Kadee's (it get's expensive; trust me, I looked! - ). So check them out on IHC of Texas' website; when I can, I'll get a few sets! -


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## jjb727

tomeiterman said:


> It has been many many years since I have been involved with model railroading and am just getting back into it. With so many companies making products, are all of the couplers on the new engines/cars compatible. If not, what are recommendations for a universal coupler to replace with.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Tom E.


i use kadee #148


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## jjb727

Stan kolak said:


> The magneti couplers are good if tou have the setup to decouple. Most of the older came with horn-hook as mentioned. The ones that I have converted to is a straight down pin type, don't know the name. It enabl;es me to decouple trains in a freight yard with a pin alignment track adaptor. Thus far, I am the only person in our train club that can decouple trains, HO or O gauge. Many in HO don't seem interested in decoupling. On "O" gauge, they use swish sticks to decouple trains when we have a meet. This straigfht pin design has been around perhaps longer than the horn-hook, as I used it on my boys trains in 1973.


i would love to see this one in action! do you have a video or a link that I could use to watch it work?


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## Southern

New Berlin RR said:


> credit goes to the original creator of the file, im just uploading here to allow for easy finding of the list, so if a mod/admin could kindly sticky thisl


IMHO If we start sticking parts list we will fill the fourms first pages very quick.


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## New Berlin RR

well I just figured since its a relitivly comon question we should sticky that, i was only intending to sticky the most common items related to the most frequent question(s) but I do see the point you make Southern


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## gunrunnerjohn

I personally don't subscribe to many sticky threads, because as Southern points out, you can quickly fill the forum page with old and stale topics. IMO, it's only warranted when a topic really has almost universal interest. I think a better way to do this is to create a FAQ thread and then have references to various topics. That would be a candidate for a sticky. For instance, look in the O-scale Forum, there are three stickies, and all of them are a whole thread of references.


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## New Berlin RR

that would work too, I just think we need a nice area for a collection of helpful things for people needing such a thing or new people who are needing a bit of help.


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## jjb727

Southern said:


> That's what I did. As I started upgrading I would start with the last car of a train and work my way up. 13 years later I still have both on the layout.


that's very crafty!


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## New Berlin RR

I personialy have one passenger car thats a combo car (both type of hooks on it) and one freight thats the same way.


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## Southern

Southern said:


> That's what I did. As I started upgrading I would start with the last car of a train and work my way up. 13 years later I still have both on the layout.


 
That post was from 12/01/2008. Up until a week ago, every thing on my layout was equipped with Kadee couplers. Now I have to start again.


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## Lee_R

I plan on getting some Kadee couplers in the future but in the meantime, I've got five packages of the IHC Magic-Mate couplers sitting on my desk, waiting for my trains to arrive from Oklahoma! I probably won't convert many (if any) of the Tyco stuff, but I'm pretty sure I'll make a few "combination cars", so everybody will be able to play together


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