# Rookie layout,all help appreciated



## Greg903

Hi all,
My train career started six months ago when I asked my wife/kids for a O gauge train for Christmas. I got hooked, I have the lumber and some insulation and a mess of trains! Not much else yet, but I am ready to take the plunge. My wife and kids are going to be involved as well,should be a awesome family project. I am going to document it here, I am not the best writer or photographer but I will try. 

So I am about to start slicing up some lumber and will post pictures tonight of my progress and hopefully some of my trains. It is N scale, PRR majority with some septa,new jersey transit,csx and amtrak thrown in. I have a rough sketch of what I am after. Small,poor mid pennsylvania blue collar town. Trailer park,scrap yard,construction site,train depot with a turntable. Mostly freight trains, I am doing a 3' wide L shape with two sheets plywood. I will post my sketch tonight.DCC as well. I still need track and a DCC system,any recommendations. I planned code 80 flex track,is that a good choice? 

Picked up some spools of 14 and 18 gauge wiring, for feeder and track wiring. Good choice? 

I've been reading for months and have zero knowledge of trains but a whole lot of inernet info! And hey, we all know you can't go wrong listening to the internet! 

Thanks in advance for all comments and guidance. 
Greg


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## Big Ed

Just wondering.

How did you go from O to N? 
O for the Christmas tree only now, N because of space requirements?


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## Greg903

That pretty much is it^^^

I also bought a ho Bachman irish railways set. Still haven't opened it. I didn't know anything about trains included what I liked. I didn't realize the size of N scale people til my wife bought me some yesterday for Father's Day, tiny! 

Snapped a few pics while I am comtemplatiing lumber size. 

My plan


My ideas. ( I am in roofing )



Materials ( am I close ) 



Tools



My stash ( I will seperate and take some pics after this table) 











PRR O gauge 


Some Lumber and tools.


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## mustangcobra94

looks like you got everything covered. for building mountains you could use the pink or blue foam sheets. and you can use joint compound as plaster of paris. i have been experimenting with these both are working good. i see you have some classic model kits, like them johann's:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> looks like you got everything covered. for building mountains you could use the pink or blue foam sheets. and you can use joint compound as plaster of paris. i have been experimenting with these both are working good. i see you have some classic model kits, like them johann's:smilie_daumenpos:


Always been a lover of machinery/vehicles etc. Those 60s models are super cool. I see the older classic/vintage trains is a movement of its own. Nice tip for the spackle, I'm sure you get a lot more bang for your buck. 
And for the foam, is a 1" base sufficient or 2" necessary?


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## mustangcobra94

1 inch is fine for n scale . it all depends if you want to dig down into the foam to make valley's , ditches etc. . i used 3/4 inch foam on mine.


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> 1 inch is fine for n scale . it all depends if you want to dig down into the foam to make valley's , ditches etc. . i used 3/4 inch foam on mine.


Cool, I haven't really thought about slope or incline yet but as far as digging down,maybe a small water area but doesn't need to be that deep I don't think. 

Btw nice screen name. I have a 03 gt vert. Thinking about a second one if the s-197s flood the market when the new body style comes out.


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## mustangcobra94

thanks, i posted a thread a while ago ther was alot of people here that are into cars and trains . i have a 90 gt conv. and a 94 cobra also an 05 gto. can't go wrong with the s-197s that's the 05 and up ones right? alot of parts available. i was thinking about an 08 bullit


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> thanks, i posted a thread a while ago ther was alot of people here that are into cars and trains . i have a 90 gt conv. and a 94 cobra also an 05 gto. can't go wrong with the s-197s that's the 05 and up ones right? alot of parts available. i was thinking about an 08 bullit


I think 05-09 and then they changed again. I wanted a cobra,regret it. Wife can't drive a stick. And she rarely drives it anyway so I couldve,should've. Those new gtos are seriously fast as well. You have a cool fleet for sure. 


Here's half the frame work. I'm using 2x3 with 2x4 legs


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## mustangcobra94

are you going to put the foam right on the framing? on your diagram i guess the oval in the middle is the trolley track


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> are you going to put the foam right on the framing? on your diagram i guess the oval in the middle is the trolley track



I used plywood/osb as a substrate and have to research how to attach inso to plywood.


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## Magic

Keep the pics coming, always good to see the progress of a new layout.
Plenty of help here if you have questions or problems. 
I see a roll of Gorilla tape so your off to a good start. :smilie_daumenpos:

Magic


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## mustangcobra94

i did the same thing on my layout you can use elmers glue or a hot glue gun on low temp setting to glue the foam down.


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## DonR

Here's a few random suggestions to consider as you
build your layout.

You'll want to have on hand a 15 to 25 watt soldering iron,
resin flux and solder.

Highly recommend that you get a NMRA track, wheel and
coupler gauge.

You'll need something to cut the flex track to fit. There
is a choice of three tools for this: Dremel Cutting wheel,
Fine Tooth razor saw, or a special track 'nipper' from a
hobby store.

I definitely would use at least 1/4" plywood or something
similar under the foam for your table top. 

While your frame is fully exposed, drill holes in the cross
members. You'll need them for stringing your wiring. If
you plan your wiring ahead, you could install it while table
is 'upsidedown'. A lot easier than crawling under to do it.

Don


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## Greg903

Magic said:


> Keep the pics coming, always good to see the progress of a new layout.
> Plenty of help here if you have questions or problems.
> I see a roll of Gorilla tape so your off to a good start. :smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> Magic


I sent my wife in the garage for tape the other day and she said I had every kind of tape imaginable. I said I do, but the gorilla is all I need. Lol.


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## Greg903

DonR said:


> Here's a few random suggestions to consider as you
> build your layout.
> 
> You'll want to have on hand a 15 to 25 watt soldering iron,
> resin flux and solder.
> 
> Highly recommend that you get a NMRA track, wheel and
> coupler gauge.
> 
> You'll need something to cut the flex track to fit. There
> is a choice of three tools for this: Dremel Cutting wheel,
> Fine Tooth razor saw, or a special track 'nipper' from a
> hobby store.
> 
> I definitely would use at least 1/4" plywood or something
> similar under the foam for your table top.
> 
> While your frame is fully exposed, drill holes in the cross
> members. You'll need them for stringing your wiring. If
> you plan your wiring ahead, you could install it while table
> is 'upsidedown'. A lot easier than crawling under to do it.
> 
> Don


I have the soldering iron ( Father's Day present) and I have a dremel. I saw the cutting snips and was planning on grabbing a pair as I didn't know about using the dremel. 

I haven't heard of track,wheel and coupler gauge til now, will look into it.


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> i did the same thing on my layout you can use elmers glue or a hot glue gun on low temp setting to glue the foam down.



I will prob do Elmer's, I was thinking of doubling up inso in areas to add contour, does that sound right? And I will use it for a mountain on the inside corner.


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## Hutch

I found that screws worked well where my glue job didn't. I can always move them or drive them deeper if I need to cut a stream or something.


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## Greg903

I was originally thinking liquid nail. 

I bought a lot if bachmann dcc stuff. Here's some that won't be primary but will be in the rotation. 











Have 10 PC freight cars







Doodlebug


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## Greg903

My plan for table is to put a facia on the front, probably 1x6 pine and stain or paint anf to the height of inso or should I put a raised lip on the perimeter. Also am thinking about a 12" backer along the wall that can be painted as part of backdrop. My plan was to have my daughter paint backdrop on cement wall, my wife suggested a backdrop that can be moved. Any suggestions for material?


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> are you going to put the foam right on the framing? on your diagram i guess the oval in the middle is the trolley track


You nailed it with the oval. That'll be somewhat residential half of layout. 

The L is 9'x5' and 3' wide.


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## Greg903

Have to order flex track, turntable, turnouts. I have read up on wiring, can anyone explain bus bars?


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## mustangcobra94

Greg903 said:


> I will prob do Elmer's, I was thinking of doubling up inso in areas to add contour, does that sound right? And I will use it for a mountain on the inside corner.


Liquid nails will work also yes just double up or triple up with the foam i took my foam outside to cut it gets messy a hot wire foam cutter also works


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## DonR

Greg903 said:


> Have to order flex track, turntable, turnouts. I have read up on wiring, can anyone explain bus bars?[/QUOTE
> 
> A buss on a model railroad is generally wire, 14 gauge, that
> connects to the output of your DCC controller or DC power
> pack. You have wires soldered to your track rails, often 18
> gauge, that drops down to connect to the power buss. That
> way you distribute your power evenly around your layout.
> 
> Take care to observe polarity (phasing on DCC).
> 
> Don


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## Big Ed

Greg903 said:


> My plan for table is to put a facia on the front, probably 1x6 pine and stain or paint anf to the height of inso or should I put a raised lip on the perimeter. Also am thinking about a 12" backer along the wall that can be painted as part of backdrop. My plan was to have my daughter paint backdrop on cement wall, my wife suggested a backdrop that can be moved. Any suggestions for material?


How good is your daughters artistic abilities?
With your wall the way it is I vision a nice mountain side can be painted on using the existing crevices you have on the wall already.

Up above the mountain the crevices can be transformed into clouds in the sky.

Has she ever used chalk? She can chalk it on then after you get it the way you like it you can seal the chalk on.

Starting at post #128 in this thread I chalked on plywood. ( keep in mind this is my first attempt at something like this. ) Post numbers are up in the right hand corner)
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5314

One thing nice about using chalk you can wipe it off if something is not to your liking.

Then once you get it done you can seal by spraying it with a clear coat.


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## Greg903

big ed said:


> How good is your daughters artistic abilities?
> With your wall the way it is I vision a nice mountain side can be painted on using the existing crevices you have on the wall already.
> 
> Up above the mountain the crevices can be transformed into clouds in the sky.
> 
> Has she ever used chalk? She can chalk it on then after you get it the way you like it you can seal the chalk on.
> 
> Starting at post #128 in this thread I chalked on plywood. ( keep in mind this is my first attempt at something like this. ) Post numbers are up in the right hand corner)
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5314
> 
> One thing nice about using chalk you can wipe it off if something is not to your liking.
> 
> Then once you get it done you can seal by spraying it with a clear coat.



My daughter and I checked it out. We both approve.  looks very convincing and think its worth a shot. 

I pulled out some trains and cars tonight to get a idea of what I have and noticed two different style couplers, that don't seem compatible. Going to do a search on converting and buying but if anyone has any input it is more than welcome.


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## Greg903

DonR said:


> Greg903 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have to order flex track, turntable, turnouts. I have read up on wiring, can anyone explain bus bars?[/QUOTE
> 
> A buss on a model railroad is generally wire, 14 gauge, that
> connects to the output of your DCC controller or DC power
> pack. You have wires soldered to your track rails, often 18
> gauge, that drops down to connect to the power buss. That
> way you distribute your power evenly around your layout.
> 
> Take care to observe polarity (phasing on DCC).
> 
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Don. I see some on ebay for $8-10 and they have 4 or 6 splits, or is there a hobby specific type?
Click to expand...


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## DonR

Greg

Not clear what you are seeing for $8 to 10.00. If you are buying
something for a buss system, use ordinary color insulated
wires. Many modellers use the plastic connectors that you
can get at Home Deport, Lowe's or likely most any hardware
store. They slip over the buss wire and also the drop wire and when
you close them, an electrical connection is made. You do not
have to strip the insulation from the wires. Buy them for
the wire gauges you will use.

Don


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## mustangcobra94

Greg903 said:


> My daughter and I checked it out. We both approve.  looks very convincing and think its worth a shot.
> 
> I pulled out some trains and cars tonight to get a idea of what I have and noticed two different style couplers, that don't seem compatible. Going to do a search on converting and buying but if anyone has any input it is more than welcome.


the 2 styles are rapido style and knucle type the knuckle type is more realistic looking. i'm sure you can buy conversion kits to change the rapido over. i have a couple of cars that have 1 style coupler on each end so i can use both styles.


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## Greg903

I'll have to figure out these couplers. Seems like I have mostly rapido on cars but engines have the others. Got my track and figured out the bus bar. Think I'm ready to wire this weekend. Didn't glue down inso yet til I get a idea of what goes where. I will draw a rough template on inso before glue so I don't glue where water etc will be. 



Is This turn to sharp. Lol











Probably do a lot of prefab buildings. Need more switches and turntable still. 

Anyone know about turntables? The atlas is like $50 and them there's others for like $250. Is the atlas junk?


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## Greg903

Have to get my dcc too, thinking prodigy squared.


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## mustangcobra94

Anyone know about turntables? The atlas is like $50 and them there's others for like $250. Is the atlas junk? the atlas isn't junk but not as detailed as the others. the atlas does come with an optional power motor or you can crank it manually. some of the other ones I've seen need to cut into the foam . they have a pit like the real ones do.


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## Greg903

So it's just looks? Function is similar? 

I was checking out your layout. Are you running dcc? I've been reading reviews and think i go nce with a 5amo booster. The mrc squared looks good but reviews that are pretty dated (2010) are terrible.


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## mustangcobra94

I used to have 1 in ho scale it worked o.k. I have never seen any work in n scale. I am running dcc it is a digitrax but I have not hooked it to dcc yet I am using it on dc for now


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## Big Ed

Greg903 said:


> My daughter and I checked it out. We both approve.  looks very convincing and think its worth a shot.
> 
> I pulled out some trains and cars tonight to get a idea of what I have and noticed two different style couplers, that don't seem compatible. Going to do a search on converting and buying but if anyone has any input it is more than welcome.


Search youtube for some videos on chalk art. There are a few good ones to learn from I will see if I bookmarked them on one of our computers.

I bought a bunch of chalk on e bay. A whole bunch of colors and they were having a by one pack and get one free along with free shipping. I think I paid around $16 bucks all together.

Note, the dark green on my mountains is paint, I was experimenting to see how it would take.

I will see what I can find.


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## Greg903

big ed said:


> Search youtube for some videos on chalk art. There are a few good ones to learn from I will see if I bookmarked them on one of our computers.
> 
> I bought a bunch of chalk on e bay. A whole bunch of colors and they were having a by one pack and get one free along with free shipping. I think I paid around $16 bucks all together.
> 
> Note, the dark green on my mountains is paint, I was experimenting to see how it would take.
> 
> I will see what I can find.



I will do that. Spent all night last night watching YouTube scenery videos with my wife. We use the iPad and Apple TV so we can watch in living room tv. 

Went with mrc advanced dcc, price was right for a used set up. Ordered buildings and scenery, nervous about starting without having everything or knowing where everything fits. Going to glue down inso and start wiring today. Going to try and draw the layout on the inso so I have a clue.


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## Greg903

Glued my insulation down with liquid nail. 



Here it is weighed down with whatever I found. 




If a mod could move my thread to the layout page if appreciate it. Still learning and finding my way around the forum. 


My plan is sort of half baked and I want to try and solidify it before I do more. Gojng to start the wiring tonight and then over the next couple days my accruements should arrive and I can start scenery.


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## mustangcobra94

can you still pull the table away from the wall? it will be much easier to build the mountain and do the back drop. you could make the top off the mountain lift off if you use foam.


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## Greg903

I can, and guess I will as I proceed on scenery and all. Then I'll push it back and if there's ever a issue I can pull it out I guess.


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## Fire21

I'm building my 4x8 N-scale on wheels just for access to the back. Normally it'll sit in a corner, but I can pull it out for building and tunnel access.


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## Greg903

Fire21 said:


> I'm building my 4x8 N-scale on wheels just for access to the back. Normally it'll sit in a corner, but I can pull it out for building and tunnel access.


The wheels are a good idea.


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## Big Ed

You can also make the whole mountain/tunnel so as you can just lift it off if you have to.

If you can move the table out from the wall, wheels on it would be the best option, I think.

After you make whatever it is your going to make that butts up against the wall you can trace it's outline on the wall. Then pull the table out and let your daughter paint/chalk the background onto the wall.
What ever she does you can use the crevices that are on the wall to your benefit. If you do a mountain with sky on the wall I would blend the crevices with a darker color to simulate shadows.

Looking at your wall I wish I had that instead on the plywood that was on mine, I see a lot of potential for transforming that into a mountain.

And the crevices where the sky will be can be transformed into some Cumulus fractus clouds. I love the internet. Seek and you shall find. 









I got that picture from here, http://www.clouds-online.com/

They got a WHOLE bunch more clouds there, I love the internet. I never knew there were so many.:thumbsup:

But whatever you do it is up to you ( and your daughter) it is your RR. :smokin:


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## Greg903

big ed said:


> You can also make the whole mountain/tunnel so as you can just lift it off if you have to.
> 
> If you can move the table out from the wall, wheels on it would be the best option, I think.
> 
> After you make whatever it is your going to make that butts up against the wall you can trace it's outline on the wall. Then pull the table out and let your daughter paint/chalk the background onto the wall.
> What ever she does you can use the crevices that are on the wall to your benefit. If you do a mountain with sky on the wall I would blend the crevices with a darker color to simulate shadows.
> 
> Looking at your wall I wish I had that instead on the plywood that was on mine, I see a lot of potential for transforming that into a mountain.
> 
> 
> 
> And the crevices where the sky will be can be transformed into some Cumulus fractus clouds. I love the internet. Seek and you shall find.
> 
> View attachment 36624
> 
> 
> I got that picture from here, http://www.clouds-online.com/
> 
> 
> 
> They got a WHOLE bunch more clouds there, I love the internet. I never knew there were so many.:thumbsup:
> 
> But whatever you do it is up to you ( and your daughter) it is your RR. :smokin:


Really good information. Also another good reason to put casters on my layout. Need to be able to get back there to do backdrop. 

I'm at a point where I am ready to rock and roll but.. Fear is holding me back. In my mind I'm five steps ahead,I'm buying scenery and thinking about doing it but my track isn't down yet. 

Tomorrow I am going to start..
1- fill small gaps in insulation base with spray foam 
2-paint insulation a solid color besides pink!
3- Then I am going to lay my track and trace it out. 
4-Then I will liquid cement roadbed down. 
5- lay track with connectors
6- solder all connectors 
7- install feeder wires every 3' or so 

I have three rerailers, probably need a few more of those and a few turnouts still.

Does this process sound right? And do you glue or nail track down?


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## mustangcobra94

there you go, rock and roll! nothing to be afraid of is something goes wrong just rip it up and do it again. it's learning.


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## Greg903

I was going to use spray foam on my gaps but decided to use spackle. 

Is it recommended to skim coat entire insulation/layout with spackle?




Picked this up. Pretty sharp.


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## Fire21

I've not finished a layout myself, but videos and articles I've seen they never spackle everything, just paint the foam and put groundcover on it.

Nice container set!!


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## Greg903

Fire21 said:


> I've not finished a layout myself, but videos and articles I've seen they never spackle everything, just paint the foam and put groundcover on it.
> 
> Nice container set!!


 Thanks. That's what I've been doing. Man the world was rough before the Internet and YouTube! My only problem is I watch and read everything but only remember bits and pieces :laugh:


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## Big Ed

If you paint the foam you could add the ground while the paint is still wet.

I would first concentrate on getting the track down and making sure it is working right.
Make sure it is a plan you like, scenery can come later.

A lot lay their track then either think of something to add or another plan altogether.


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## Greg903

big ed said:


> If you paint the foam you could add the ground while the paint is still wet.
> 
> I would first concentrate on getting the track down and making sure it is working right.
> Make sure it is a plan you like, scenery can come later.
> 
> A lot lay their track then either think of something to add or another plan altogether.


Sounds like a smart plan. All in due time. Let's get these trains a running first!


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## Greg903

I started laying track and ran into a problem. I can't figure out the switches. Can you use them either way? 

Here is what I am trying to accomplish and am stumped. I want to connect my inner loop to the outer loop. 





I have #6 atlas turnouts. Wrong?


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## mustangcobra94

Yes you can use them either way you want to connect the turn out parts together you might have to move the flextrack closer together or put a piece of track between the switches


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## mustangcobra94

Wait I see you need 2 of the same direction right or left then put them together


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## Greg903

Thanks. Think I get it now. Might get these trains moving in a day or so. Tracks a little better than halfway laid and I have a mountain mocked up. I am going to concentrate on one half of the layout at first. Til I save for a turntable and maybe a stall.


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## Greg903

I have about half the tracks soldered. Figured out the turnouts. I'm going to still need 4 turnouts for my yard. Thinking about butting the bullet and ordering the kato turntable and tomix stalls. 
I also realized/remembered earlier when I was googling turnouts that my layout is a copy of a plan I've seen on the Internet. I don't want to take credit for something I didn't think of. I hope that copying is the truest form of flattery in this hobby. Hope I didn't break a code or anything

I am going to connect inner loop to outer loop here. 



Turntable,stall and yard will go in center where iPad is. 



Big improvement for me,my son in law (electrician) installed three lights with a switch and a four way outlet for me yesterday. He supplied all material and labor.


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## Fire21

I LOVE free materials and labor! Unfortunately, as the father-in-law to two inexperienced sons-in-law, I usually end up being the one to supply both!!


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## Greg903

Fire21 said:


> I LOVE free materials and labor! Unfortunately, as the father-in-law to two inexperienced sons-in-law, I usually end up being the one to supply both!!


That hurts. Not sure where my daughter found him,it certainly is a rarity for the younger generation to be hands on. 
Ever since I learned how to break things I learned how to fix em.


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## Greg903

Track is laid, only ran one set of wires to it to test. Runs smooth. No trouble spots yet. Nice to see the trains move. 
I am going to jump right in to wiring. Not sure if it's overkill but I am going to do every 3'. Have to figure out a way to drill through insulation without tearing it up with the chuck from the drill. 
Went with walthers turntable for the yard. I will do the wiring and concentrate on scenery on the town half of the layout and work on the yard install while doing scenery on the town. 

Overall I am happy with the track set up. There are a few options as far as route. Now that I figured out the switches it would be nice to have a more.  

I will glue the road bed down tonight and let it set up for a day or so. 









Fell like I am posting same pink pictures everyday. I'll be glad when there's some color! 

I guess I'll let this thread die and start a new one in the layout section.


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## Magic

I got tired of the pink real fast, panted everything as soon as I could. 

Nice looking layout but I would suggest just tacking the roadbed down till you are sure you like everything, you will no doubt make changes at some point. You have a lot of possibilities for expansion there. 

Overkill is better than under kill for feeders, don't have to go back in and redo. 

Magic


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## Greg903

Magic said:


> I got tired of the pink real fast, panted everything as soon as I could.
> 
> Nice looking layout but I would suggest just tacking the roadbed down till you are sure you like everything, you will no doubt make changes at some point. You have a lot of possibilities for expansion there.
> 
> Overkill is better than under kill for feeders, don't have to go back in and redo.
> 
> Magic


Thanks Magic. Makes a lot of sense to only tack it down. My mind was already going, thinking about spurs,etc. Plus there seems to be a lot of space for scenery, maybe too much since this is N scale.


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## mustangcobra94

Greg903 said:


> Thanks Magic. Makes a lot of sense to only tack it down. My mind was already going, thinking about spurs,etc. Plus there seems to be a lot of space for scenery, maybe too much since this is N scale.


maybe you could add some elevation changes, bridges etc. now that you have some extra room


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## Hutch

Long 1/8" drill bits can be bought singly at Ace hardware. I have 2" foam and this was the only way to do it.


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## Greg903

Hutch said:


> Long 1/8" drill bits can be bought singly at Ace hardware. I have 2" foam and this was the only way to do it.



That's what I need. If not it's going to be a mess. Thanks for the tip.


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> maybe you could add some elevation changes, bridges etc. now that you have some extra room


Definitely what I need to do. I don't want this thing flat as a board. My wife is doing the mountain/tunnel, think I'll put her in charge of the terrain. Have a spot picked out for water as well and a small prr girder bridge. 
I have to sit down and map it out,I have half a plan jotted down on paper, I think I will transfer it to the Foam so I know what goes where. 

I picked up three turnouts and have a turntable on the way. Watching a few stalls on ebay too. 

Someone has a nice one with some dummy engines for sale, do you know what it takes and if it's possible to make a dummy engine a running engine?


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## mustangcobra94

basically it takes everything you would be better off finding a running engine with a broken body and swapping it


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> basically it takes everything you would be better off finding a running engine with a broken body and swapping it


Gotcha. I just don't see the point of dummy engines.


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## Fire21

Greg903 said:


> Gotcha. I just don't see the point of dummy engines.


I don't have any, but I can see where a modeler might have enough power and traction in one locomotive to pull the train, but just wants the look of more motive power. And with that point of view in mind, they are waaaay cheaper than powered units.


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## Greg903

Fire21 said:


> I don't have any, but I can see where a modeler might have enough power and traction in one locomotive to pull the train, but just wants the look of more motive power. And with that point of view in mind, they are waaaay cheaper than powered units.


That makes sense to me. And of course two engines looks cool. Maybe even for yard or stalls like a diorama setting.


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## DonR

Greg

A few posts back you wondered how to drill the foam without
damage from the chuck. Simple. Get a small piece of wood
or plastic and drill through it. The chuck would not hit the
foam when it goes all the through.

Don


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## Greg903

DonR said:


> Greg
> 
> A few posts back you wondered how to drill the foam without
> damage from the chuck. Simple. Get a small piece of wood
> or plastic and drill through it. The chuck would not hit the
> foam when it goes all the through.
> 
> Don


Thanks Don, that's a good tip cause the chuck sure years up the insulation.


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## Greg903

Not much progress but figured I'd check in. Have the road bed glued down and have been studying dcc wiring and have a game plan. I received my turntable and I bought a stall but realized the Atlas isn't compatible with the Walthers so it's going to get returned. And I will order walthers stalls. 
I need to figure our how to lay out my yard then I can wire. 

So nice. 



Not gonna work &#55357;&#56862;



I went with liquid nail for roadbed and going to use Elmer's for track.


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## Greg903

I'm gojng. With suitcase clips/quick splitters for my wiring. Looks like a good way. 
I bought some terminal blocks but can't figure out a reason to use them.


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## Greg903

Happy with my progress so far.


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## mustangcobra94

post some pics of the wiring and the splitters when you get a chance and have them installed. if your using the splitters I don't think you need terminal strips.


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## Hutch

One thing I found out the hard way with gluing is if you use too much it's very difficult to fix if you change your mind. I still use glue but only enough to hold things in place. It doesn't take much.


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## Greg903

Hutch said:


> One thing I found out the hard way with gluing is if you use too much it's very difficult to fix if you change your mind. I still use glue but only enough to hold things in place. It doesn't take much.


Thanks Hutch. I've been thinking about that. I think I over did it with roadbed. Not going to make same mistake with the track. 😄 hopefully. I could definitely see expanding in the future.


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## Greg903

I installed turntable and have half the layout track glued down. Going to lay the yard next.


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## Greg903

Heli_Ebook said:


> Curious as to why the pink panther insulating foam sheets instead of homosote? It cannot be nailed into and any holes will elongate if object is hit and they will be getting hit!


To be honest it is just what I saw others using. Actually everything is glued down. Liquid nail for insulation to plywood substrate and for cork roadbed to insulation. And white Elmer's glue for track to cork roadbed. 

I think the homosote isn't used cause of the foil cover. Glues and paints wouldn't adhere too well I think.


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## Big Ed

Greg903 said:


> To be honest it is just what I saw others using. Actually everything is glued down. Liquid nail for insulation to plywood substrate and for cork roadbed to insulation. And white Elmer's glue for track to cork roadbed.
> 
> I think the homosote isn't used cause of the foil cover. Glues and paints wouldn't adhere too well I think.


You can peel the foil cover off of that.


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## DonR

Homosote is a very good layout under lay. It is the best
if you plan to spike your rails down. I've used it
on previous layouts and did not encounter any foil.
It must be a surface protectant, or a heat refletant
when used in construction. It is possibly available
with or without the foil.

Most modelers today, tho, use the foam as a sound
deadener and glue their roadbed or tracks 
to it rather than nail. Also, it can be shaped in various ways for
lakes and streams and the like.

Don


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## Greg903

A few small updates. I can see the scenery on the horizon. My daughter has about a month left before going back to school, so The backdrop is high on the next to do list. Either that or Christmas break. All in due time, no rush. 

I got my yard laid as progress on the wiring. My wife has started my mountain/tunnel. 

This is a sample of the wiring. Have 14 Gauge routed around the perimeter with 14 gauge feeders taped in and ran across Then I have 18g track wires that will be connected to 18g with suitcase clips/quick splices. 


Tunnel/mountain ready to be started. 



Fresh from work and back at work!



Few hours later (nighttime) and still at it! 



Also I'm using spackle to smooth transition from turntable and from mainline to yard


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## mustangcobra94

thanks for the pics of the wiring. i thought that was the clips we were talking about. now will you use them to splice the pink and white wires to the main buss ?


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## Big Ed

It looks like she is making some kind of cake out there on the picnic table. 

Burning the midnight oil too!  Now that is dedication.
I hope you gave her something to eat and drink while she was hard at work into the late night hours. 

Made quite a mess too, 
I hope you guys cleaned that mess up, so the tweety birds don't chow down on it when they wake up.

When I work with foam I always have my shop vac ready that crap gets all over the place.
And I do mine inside, if I don't vacuum every few minutes I have quite a mess ALL OVER.

Looking good. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> thanks for the pics of the wiring. i thought that was the clips we were talking about. now will you use them to splice the pink and white wires to the main buss ?


Exactly what I will do. Clip all the feeder wires to the main.


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## Greg903

big ed said:


> It looks like she is making some kind of cake out there on the picnic table.
> 
> Burning the midnight oil too!  Now that is dedication.
> I hope you gave her something to eat and drink while she was hard at work into the late night hours.
> 
> Made quite a mess too,
> I hope you guys cleaned that mess up, so the tweety birds don't chow down on it when they wake up.
> 
> When I work with foam I always have my shop vac ready that crap gets all over the place.
> And I do mine inside, if I don't vacuum every few minutes I have quite a mess ALL OVER.
> 
> Looking good. :smilie_daumenpos:


 That's what I used as well,shop vac. And to be honest I was worried about the small pieces getting tangles in the grass but the clean up was spotless plus I got a few leaves the mower missed. And guess who's in charge of clean up? :rippedhand:


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## Greg903

Heli_Ebook said:


> WHY did you feel the need for #14 gauge wiring for N gauge? :smilie_daumenneg:
> That's more expense for nothing, #18 or #20 is enough.





Heli_Ebook said:


> WHY did you feel the need for #14 gauge wiring for N gauge? :smilie_daumenneg:
> That's more expense for nothing, #18 or #20 is enough.



I am a contractor and have a lot of friends/family in the trades, so far all my bench work has been done from donated materials. 

I know nothing about this hobby and did all my research on the Internet with forums and YouTube and have more then likely forgotten a lot or mixed ideas together. 

I thought I read those wires as being recommended on "dcc for beginners" but I probably mixed up ideas along the way. 

I still don't know why I can't run 2 2' sections of wire from transformer to tracks and call it a day. I did it to test her out and she ran fine, but when in Rome...

As for the pink inso so far I like it, I think it's dense and I've been sticking drill bits,solder, hobby knife, etc. Into it while I am working and it holds well. I plan to use a drop or two of white glue on all my scenery as well. 
But I see what you are saying as the spots I've melted on accident with solder iron open up pretty good.


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## Greg903

Worked on layout today. I have about a dozen buildings to build so that's my next phase. 
I did build two building for my yard and worked on my mountain.


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## Greg903

Heli_Ebook said:


> You can't nail down track either, not in any way I can think of compared to on homosote.
> 
> Piece of advice about internet: Treat ALL of it the same as you would a female met through an online dating site. Less than accurate, especially the appearance in their purveyed photo. Another analogy is taking medical advice from WebMD or knuckleheads in a health forum, *NOT TOO SMART! *
> 
> Best option for you (considering the monetary outlay is spread out among many people) is to join a club. That being said, your REAL advice that's worth a damn will be derived from the senior members. Just look at the modelers quality and appearance of Locos and rolling stock, then put 2 & 2 together. If you follow ANY advice on here (a site that can't even host photos besides!) you're an idiot. But if money's no object and you're having fun, then forget what I'm stating also!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWhAa0t2gdQ
> 
> I am debating if I wanna get back into it again, it's too reclusive and sedentary. Great way to grow TITS!




I hear ya, some good advice. 
I never thought of it as a group hobby. Would be awesome to get tips and see how the masters do it. 
I actually bought everything, or at least most of what I will need, just a matter of getting done. Really It was a mistake as I didn't know too much about what I am doing and bought stuff that I probably won't use so I have to figure out what I don't need.

I had a decent start cause I've been involved in the model car hobby for a while, so I'm solid with the accruements. I have every kind of glue and tape and enough to last a lifetime. I get my excercise at work ten hours a day so this is my relaxation time as well.


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## dlbraly

:thumbsup:


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## Greg903

Heli_Ebook said:


> You can dump spares on Ebay quite easily, so you haven't made a mistake because all new hobbies involve cash outlay.


That's cool,and maybe put some here on the for sale thread or trade even. 


Some slow progress. I've started assembling some buildings. I plan to build them all then fall back and do some detailing/weathering. 

Two model power plastic kits. 



Blair line kit





Some trailers for a park mostly pre assembled. Just wanted a idea of the look. 



And some temporary landscape again just to get a idea. 



Think I am going to keep plugging away building stores/homes and start laying out some streets.


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## mustangcobra94

I like the sopranos pizzeria and did you make the trees are buy them if so where ?


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## Greg903

mustangcobra94 said:


> I like the sopranos pizzeria and did you make the trees are buy them if so where ?


When I bought the pizza joint I didn't put 2&2 together,was just thinking it was a pizza place, but that's cool it's from the sopranos, great show. 

All the trees pictures are pre made from ebay,from china. They are a cheap purchase and look reasonably good. I have some pre made woodland scenics and jt trees as well but haven't take. Them out of packages yet.


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## mustangcobra94

ok, I bought some of those china trees too. just didn't take them out of the package yet. shipping took forever


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## trains galore

Looks great, very nice roundhouse train shed
Nothing wrong with going for thicker wire either, it can come in useful later on, especially for dcc. I regret not having used thicker wire on my layout as I won't be able to go to dcc now without a rewire:laugh:


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## Greg903

trains galore said:


> Looks great, very nice roundhouse train shed
> Nothing wrong with going for thicker wire either, it can come in useful later on, especially for dcc. I regret not having used thicker wire on my layout as I won't be able to go to dcc now without a rewire:laugh:


Thanks. I don't ever want to rewire,it's not the fun part that's for sure! 
The walthers kits are my favorite so far as well. Have my eye on a few more and if I could go back I may have just used their kits. Super nice.


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## Magic

Heli_Ebook said:


> If you want cheap trees, get a spool of #16 gauge mutli strand wire (that stuff you put under the table!) and brown floral tape. Cut pieces of wire ~3 to ~5 inches each. Strip insulation halfway up, then spread the wire strands like branches. Wrap floral tape around the "trunk" (insulated lower part). Now just spread and deposit Woodland Scenics colored foam sheeting on the "branches".


Just tried you 16 gauge wire trick and looks like a go for me. :thumbsup::thumbsup: 
I need dozens of trees and have tons of wire. The one I just did tonight looks pretty good. 
I also need a lot of bushes and smaller wire may work perfect for that. 
Good tip thanks. :smilie_daumenpos:

Magic


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## Big Ed

Heli_Ebook said:


> Also that Roundhouse kit: Been around forever! Such a simple structure too, dunno why you guys don't scratch that? All these plastic structures look like plastic. Get some Dulcote spray and hit all that stuff. That roundhouse needs to be grungy from SOOT also. That building should look like you just dug it out of your garden, grunge the hell out of that. Also make sure the area looks like Fred Sanford's backyard: CRAP strewn all over the ground! Snap some rails out of some old track, "rust" them up and scatter piles of that. Some railroad ties, stacked like firewood, etc. etc. etc. Lots of oil drums they would use lube from on the drivetrains, etc. Make sure you build an oil pit near that turntable too. Put stairs and railings around it, oil drums, hoses from the drums, piles of rags and crap all over, get a Floquil brush and paint some "tools" laying on the platform, etc.


At one time roundhouses were not all grimy,grunge, and the yards were nice and clean too. :smokin:


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## Greg903

Hey guys, thougt I would stop by and say hello and share my progress. It's slow going, been working on building buildings for the layout. Trying my hand at some new detailing tricks, nothing extraordinary, basic weathering so everything doesn't look new. I am new to trains so I am not doing anything prototypical as I haven't a clue, just buying trains and items I like even if it's out of scale some. Also have bought some built ups as well. He crane and police and fire houses are my latest completions.


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## powersteamguy1790

Looks like you're making nice progress Greg.:thumbsup:


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## Greg903




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## Greg903




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## Greg903

powersteamguy1790 said:


> Looks like you're making nice progress Greg.:thumbsup:


Thanks, it's hard to tell sometimes, more ideas than time! I guess it's never really going to be complete, always more detailing to do!


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## powersteamguy1790

Greg903 said:


> Thanks, it's hard to tell sometimes, more ideas than time! I guess it's never really going to be complete, always more detailing to do!


A model train layout is never finished. I been working on this layout, the "new" JJJ&E since February 2009. The basic scenery is 98% completed to date.

Just take your time and work slowly....that is the key.


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## Bone1977

Looking good! I'm noticing a lot of similar trains and buildings  I admit to going the easy way out and using Unitrack, but hard to beat the quality for the price. Love the mix you have on the table. Keep up the good work!


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## shaygetz

Just saw your first pix...you have a Jo-Han Hearse _*AND*_ ambulance!!?? Dude.......:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Greg903

:sold:


Bone1977 said:


> Looking good! I'm noticing a lot of similar trains and buildings  I admit to going the easy way out and using Unitrack, but hard to beat the quality for the price. Love the mix you have on the table. Keep up the good work!


I know it, trying to get some coverage fast! Takes me so long to build one building, figured buy built ones and add to them. I will swap stuff out as I go as well. I am probably along every rookie mistake possible twice!!


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## Greg903

shaygetz said:


> Just saw your first pix...you have a Jo-Han Hearse _*AND*_ ambulance!!?? Dude.......:smilie_daumenpos:


I blame them for this train addiction. :smokin: actually my last model car build was the johan hearse and it is in the box with a painted body and not much else done. Painting the bodies was/is my favorite part of building models. 
I am in the progress on combining the cars and trains into one hobby room.


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## socalnscaler

LOVE the mixture of steam and diesel! I've been trying to do a layout similar to yours but have been kind of bogged down both by finances and work schedules! 

I only started my screen name the other day and have enjoyed watching your progress on this layout - the update posts and such!

I gotta be honest: I'm quite jealous! :appl:


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## Greg903

socalnscaler said:


> LOVE the mixture of steam and diesel! I've been trying to do a layout similar to yours but have been kind of bogged down both by finances and work schedules!
> 
> I only started my screen name the other day and have enjoyed watching your progress on this layout - the update posts and such!
> 
> I gotta be honest: I'm quite jealous! :appl:


Thank you, I appreciate it. 
I know, it's expensive and time consuming for sure. I'm hoping after the initial investment it won't be so bad. . I thougt if I had almost everything I may need there would be no stopping me, I forgot about the clock ! It's hard to set aside time but I try my best to do a little a few times a week. 
I really want to get rid of the pink, have my roads paved and my yard graveled/dirt. Then I can run trains and fill in scenery...


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## traction fan

*Backdrop & facia*



Greg903 said:


> My plan for table is to put a facia on the front, probably 1x6 pine and stain or paint anf to the height of inso or should I put a raised lip on the perimeter. Also am thinking about a 12" backer along the wall that can be painted as part of backdrop. My plan was to have my daughter paint backdrop on cement wall, my wife suggested a backdrop that can be moved. Any suggestions for material?


Both backdrop and facia are commonly made of 1/8" thick Masonite or "MDF"( medium density fiberboard) also called "hard board". These materials are sold in 4'x8' sheets at Home Depot, Lowes Etc. They can cut it to 2'x8' or 1'x8' at the store for easy transport home. when wet with hot water, they can be bent into a nice curve to take the square corner out of your sky.
Looks like you're having fun. I've "been there, done that" in model railroading for over 50 years.
If you have more questions, you are welcome to ask me. 
Traction fan


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## trains galore

Nice work, haven't been to this thread in a while but you are definitely making progress:smilie_daumenpos:
I have seen the back drops made with really thin MDF (I think?) it's only about 5mm thick so nice and light. I might take a picture if I can find some


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## Greg903

traction fan said:


> Both backdrop and facia are commonly made of 1/8" thick Masonite or "MDF"( medium density fiberboard) also called "hard board". These materials are sold in 4'x8' sheets at Home Depot, Lowes Etc. They can cut it to 2'x8' or 1'x8' at the store for easy transport home. when wet with hot water, they can be bent into a nice curve to take the square corner out of your sky.
> Looks like you're having fun. I've "been there, done that" in model railroading for over 50 years.
> If you have more questions, you are welcome to ask me.
> Traction fan



I picked up some mdf for the backdrop, I am going to try painting it today, just a real basic green and blue paint job I saw on YouTube to have something up while I am working on my layout. I still hope to have someone who has some artistic skills paint me a nice backdrop one day. Or a pre fab picture glued on. 

I also picked up plexiglass for the facia, I am going to cap facia with aluminum to clean it up and then install the plexi. Thanks for the suggestions,definitely helped.


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## Greg903

trains galore said:


> Nice work, haven't been to this thread in a while but you are definitely making progress:smilie_daumenpos:
> I have seen the back drops made with really thin MDF (I think?) it's only about 5mm thick so nice and light. I might take a picture if I can find some


Thanks, the mdf seems like a great idea.


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## Greg903

Started painting my track. Using badger flex paint through the airbrush. Plan is tie brown, with rust and grimy black for weathering. Here it it with two coats of tie brown. 

Before 



After


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## Greg903

Painted a simple backdrop. Spray paint on mdf which I saw on YouTube. 







Picked up some plexiglass for the facia as well. Not sure if I should install now or wait til scenery is done to keep it clean.


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## Greg903

Me irking on another building. Walthers merchants row 2. I really like the walthers kits. Go together cleanly and have nice detail in n scale. 

Really putting off scenery, just don't know where to start. 







Still have to hang the signs and do slight weathering and slag the roof.


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