# Building an S scale layout...



## Reckers

I thought I'd start a thread and add to it as I progressed. Some problems are common to all scales, but each scale or gauge has it's own peculiarities. I'll add to the thread as it moves along and I hit any issue worth discussing. This will be an American Flyer setup, all prewar/postwar track, cars and locomotives unless noted differently. All steam, for now, to stay in era.

First, build a table. *L* This one may be overkill, but I don't lack ambition. It's 12' x 5' because the original S scale requires massive space to make turns and besides, I wanted to go for a large layout: I had the space.

Tabletop is 7/16" OSB, the frame is all 2 x 4 lumber, held together with some stamped-metal construction connectors and about a zillion woodscrews. Okay, not a zillion, but I know over a 100 because I ran out and had to buy more!


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Awesome beginnings! I'm THRILLED that you've got a "Watch This Evolve" thread going. We're all on the edge of our seats!

TJ


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## tankist

congrads. its about time


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## Reckers

Thank you both. It has been a long time coming, Anton---between moving and all the settling in stuff, it had to take a back seat for a while. With the table up, though, it should move faster. My son is staying with me, this week, while my gf is back visiting in PA. He'll help me rearrange things in the basement to free up some space. It's nice to have some help instead of "honey, could you..." *L*


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## Stillakid

Very nice Len! When were you planning on coming here to build mine?


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## T-Man

WOW I feel like a wild ape (before dinosaurs!) in 2001 space odyssey. Viewing the birth of a whole new world......Recker Style. OOOH, OOOh, scratch, scatch.

It still looks like a launch pad.


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## Reckers

Stillakid said:


> Very nice Len! When were you planning on coming here to build mine?


Jim,

Your work always ends up looking better than mine anyway: I'll make the mistakes and you rectify them on yours!


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## Reckers

T-Man said:


> WOW I feel like a wild ape (before dinosaurs!) in 2001 space odyssey. Viewing the birth of a whole new world......Recker Style. OOOH, OOOh, scratch, scatch.
> 
> It still looks like a launch pad.


It does, huh? Maybe I should add some dinosaurs to take away from that effect? I was considering a small werewolf colony in one area, till I realized they'd only be about 2 scale feet tall!


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## Reckers

....and no, I still can't figure out how to multiquote!


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## T-Man

I haven't figure out multi quotes either. I get one to start then I just copy another I need. Don't know if there is any easier way.
I can't wait to see more results.


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## tjcruiser

T-Man said:


> WOW I feel like a wild ape (before dinosaurs!) in 2001 space odyssey. Viewing the birth of a whole new world......Recker Style. OOOH, OOOh, scratch, scatch.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

PLAY ME ===> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w


TJ


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## Reckers

Next stage: adding Mother Earth to bedrock. In this case, bedrock is the table and Mother Earth is everyone's favorite, pink foam sheathing insulation in rigid sheets. My table is 12 x 5; the sheets are 4 x 8. Using three sheets and cutting them down to 4 x 5 gives me a smooth surface and plenty of scrap for future work: constructing terrain, constructing a second table, and so on. Some careful measuring followed by cutting against a straight-edge results in nice sheets that interlock at the edges.




















Leftovers from cutting, and culls. Culls are what Home Depot et al call damaged materials. In my case, I was working with 3/4" thick sheets. At $13 and change per sheet, that adds up. Thicker makes the price rise quickly. 3/4" is thick enough for my 0" altitude "soil", but I'll need more to create terrain above that. The store had a damaged 3/4" sheet and a damaged 3" sheet. The guy working there was willing to half-price them to me. Since the 3" sheet was then still $15, I told him I'd take just the 3/4" sheet. I told him what I was using them for: his face lit up and he told me about his HO set when he was a kid, and that he'd like to get back into it. Then he got out his marking pen and repriced both sheets down to where I left with both. I gave him the site's address, so Dave, if you're reading this, thanks again!!!

Leftovers and culls:


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## Reckers

Next phase....attaching the foam panels. I'm mindful of the fact I may have to break this puppy down and move it, someday. First step is to discretely mark where I have screws through the OSB panels to attach them to the 2x4 frame. I don't want to destroy the layout's edges, hacking away at the foam as I search for screws. A simple line will tell me where to look:










Next...theory. Humidity can play havoc with a layout: wood is a living thing, even when it's been shredded to make OSB. It swells and shrinks. One theory is to use as many screws as possible to lock it down to the frame. My own preference is to give it the freedom to do it's thing as uniformly as possible, so I use just enough screws to prevent the OSB sheets from sliding and let it float freely, beyond that. My belief is that if the entire sheet can swell move as one unit, you distribute the distortion over all of it and minumize the effect on the layout. Tack it down and the movement and distortion concentrate in the one area of least resistance. I'll find out, over the coming year, if I'm right. OSB, as TJ explained, is Oriented Strand Board. Around my neighborhood, it's often called "splinter board" because it's composed of large wood splinters formed into sheets.

Back to the table....laying down the foam sheets. I started at one end and got all three sheets to where I was satisfied: oriented properly to the table and each other. I turned them all Pink Panther side down---I doubt it makes a difference, but why give it a chance?

Materials for this step:










Foam doesn't absorb humidity and swell, but the OSB beneath it does, so the foam sheets are along for the ride. To allow that, I minimized the attachment to let them float. Two nickel-sized globs between foam and OSB on the narrow end, near the corners. For the center sheet, a glob in the middle of each short side to keep things from sliding and the sheets coming apart. On the last sheet of foam, two more globs on the short face. This will allow the sheets of OSB to move under the sheets of foam as it swells and contracts.

Credits: before I go further, I want to credit suggestions made to me by others as I planned this. Tankist was the one who inspired me to search for culls when I looked for foam---thanks, Anton! Macdaddy suggested the material for the next step (latex caulk), caulking the seams. Make sure it's latex and not oil based, and paintable.










The process is simple and fast: squeeze a long glob onto your fingertip, smear it down the seam, and go for more. Use it generously: thick works better at hiding the seam. When you get a thick smear down the seam, go back and smooth it. Mac suggested a wet fingertip; I found a tool I liked better, a cheap plastic window scraper with the blade-protector left on.










It goes on quickly and smooths well. Latex should have some flexibility and compressability to ride out the changes in the wood discussed earlier. Drying time: 2 hours.










By the way, dozer was the author of the suggestion to use Liquid Nails to attach the foam to the OSB: thanks, dozer! Thanks also to everyone who listened to my dummer ideas and patiently talked me out of them.

Drying time on Liquid Nails is 24 hours, so I'm done for today. Time to go cut grass.


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Looking GREAT ... and very detailed planning and forethought, on your part ... well done!

I especially like the story of bartering and "train-talking" the guy at Home Depot. I'll bet ol' Dave walked away with a smile on his face, too!

Keep us posted,

TJ


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## Reckers

Thank you, TJ!
Several hours passed and I just couldn't leave it alone. Temporary layout of the ground-level track. The semicircle in the back will rise as it moves from left to right. On right side, the existing track will stay at ground level and run through tunnels; the rear semicircle will find it's way uphill to cross the ridge on top of those same tunnels, using bridges.










I had an engine chugging around...funny! Only one power lead to the track, so it would race past the transformer and then start laboring around the track for the last half.


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Congratulations! Track and actual train movement ... you must be thrilled!

I remember your layout drawings, so the pics and descriptions above make perfect sense.

What are you gonna do next ... screw down the 3rd rail inbetween the other two?!? :laugh:

TJ


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## Reckers

*laughs*...you must have been reading my mind, TJ!!!! I was just muttering to myself, "Screw that third rail!" :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Next item is to rig up the block-with-a-pen-in-the-gondola thing and roll it around the layout, marking the track's right-of-way. That comes, of course, after measuring all my cars to see who has the widest body and the widest swing on the curves. My guess it will be the aluminum observation car for length and an engine or the crane for width. By the way, if whoever posted that gondola trick would step up and identify himself, I'd like to credit him with originating that idea. For anyone using this thread to build a layout, I'll describe it in detail as I work through that part.


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Clever gondola marker gizmo was via our exhalted leader TwoRail, via Post #23 here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2304

TJ


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## Reckers

Thank you, TJ! Credit for the device for marking the right-of-way edges around the track goes to Tworail, and thank you for your contribution to my knowledge. I should have guessed it was him: most great ideas start with Two Rails.


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## Big Ed

I can hear Reckers singing....I....been working on the Rail Road.......,
Looking good Bubba!:thumbsup:

What's with the crossing? 
Is that where a bridge is going?


Any updates? 
She was gone a while I thought you would be running trains by now.


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## Big Ed

I wonder if you could by more loose ties to fill in the voids between them?
That two rail looks funny to me as I am used to the third rail.:laugh:





Heres what you need for your new back yard to get away from all. Just a little bigger.










The little guy is still rolling around the track with it's big brothers. Very happy!


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## tjcruiser

It's the "Reckers King of S Southbound Express" ... LOVE IT! Nicely done!

(Just my sure the boy pays you some big-time royalties there, Big Ed!)

TJ


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## tooter

big ed said:


> I wonder if you could by more loose ties to fill in the voids between them?


I kinda like the wide spaced ties. 
They have a narrow gauge look.

Cool S layout Reck! :thumbsup:
Looks *way* better than 3 rail Lionel.:laugh:

Greg


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## Reckers

Ed, the crossing will be leading off to the bridge: assuming the bridge is wide enough, it will allow two trains to pass in opposite directions, running to the second table (The Land of Christmas Village!). That is where my girfriend will be doing her own layout with Motorific and her collection. The return line will be on the right. Look waaaay down the right side and you'll see a disconnected curve. That curve will be elevated. The part that is straight on the right will go thru tunnels at ground level; the curve will rise to run along the crests of the ridges and use bridges to cross from hill to hill. Coming toward you on the right side, it will run straight off the table and descend to the bridge.


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## Reckers

*ROLLING ON THE FLOOR, LAUGHING!!!* Ed, I just saw the little guy! What an honor!!! Thank you!


And I agree with you about the widely-spaced ties. As I get to the end, I have a source where I can buy black plastic ties of the right size to fill in the gaps. I'll save that for last, though.


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## Reckers

choo choo said:


> I kinda like the wide spaced ties.
> They have a narrow gauge look.
> 
> Cool S layout Reck! :thumbsup:
> Looks *way* better than 3 rail Lionel.:laugh:
> 
> Greg


 Thank you, Greg! It's coming along pretty well, now that I have most of the work done from moving. IT took me forever to build that table, but now I'm into the fun part.


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## Reckers

Next stage: laying out my right-of-way. BC showed us how and it's a good system. I was reluctant to chop up a 60-year-old car, though, so I modified his system. Mine's more primitve, but it worked well enough:










Two blocks of wood screwed together with a Sharpie pen for an outrigger. Nothing scientific about it: I eyeballed it and said "This is how far out I need the pen." The purpose is to define the area associated with the track so my cars don't scrape against rock walls and so on. Here it is, again---mounted in a gondola so it can scribe a line around the track:


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## Reckers

After all the lines are drawn on each side of the track, it's decision time. Leave it as is, or fill it in? I chose to paint it flat black with acrylic paint. Oil-based paint will dissolve your foam, so it's latex and acrylic for a foam-board layout. Many thanks to Mac, Tankist and others who have repeatedly reminded me of this!










For me, there were two reasons to take this step. First, I'll have a series of tunnels, ridges and so on, so I need clearly-defined lines for the walls of the tunnels and cuts. The paint job should make aligning the foam-board construction simpler. As someone pointed out in another string, "If Reckers can do it...anybody can do it!" The other reason is that it needs a base color. Later additions of browns and green can model the earth adjoining the track and simply cover the black. Ballast will conceal most of it under the track. However, there are always the occasional "missed that" spaces that occur. Black will blend in with the black ties; the occasional black spot will look like cinders or coal that fell from the tender in passing. It's hard to pass a pink spot off as coal, though. I'll do the other half next weekend.


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## Stillakid

*Reckers, Can Do It! "All Night Long!"*

You da Man!:laugh:

Looks good, Len!:thumbsup: Seems well thought out and planned. Can't wait to see the added ties. I was looking at wood. Which is cheaper:laugh::laugh:


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## Reckers

Thank you, Jim! I found a place that had very reasonably-priced plastic, S scale (and others) in black and brown. I can't remember the price difference, but when I explored it last winter, the plastic was a better deal, hands down.


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## Komodo

Where do you find this S scale stuff? anyway its cool, once you get more scenery and track you will have to post a video!


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## Reckers

Thank you, Komodo---I'm having a lot of fun with building it, as this is my first attempt at a layout. I thought I'd do this thread so that any mistakes I make might be apparent to someone who makes a layout later and would save them from repeating it---also, because it would give a detailed, as-if-you-were-standing-there view of somebody building one.

S scale is not hard to come by, but it's not a scale I'd recommend to most people. It was primarily made by the American Flyer/AC Gilbert company from before WWII until about 1968, when they went bankrupt. The highest quality was made from the late 1930's until about 1958 or 1959. At that point, the company was in financial trouble and made sacrifices in quality. It went bankrupt and was bought out by Lionel. Lionel still makes S scale AF stuff referred to as "Flyonel" by S scalers. A few other companies make rolling stock and accessories. There's a strong market of collectors and the stuff sells constantly on Ebay. Local Hobby Shops (LHS's) sometimes carry it, but it's inevitably overpriced. Ebay's the best source for it. If you're interested in it, here's a good place to start: http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html

Or...you can just ask me.


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## tankist

looks like start. Reck finally has his own trains to run and enjoy.
as for ties i would cut and use squire wooden dowels for that instead of buying plastic. but then i would thing uber prototypicality is not the goal here. or am i wrong?

Reck, to answer your question about foam plaster etc here so not to derail the subj of other thread any farther. i tried to sand with coarse file and diamond tipped saw blade. but it doesn't have to be all that even, as the terrain never is. try all kind of stuff and you will arrive to a way you enjoy most. perhaps you will want to cover your foam with plaster or not, solely up to you.

keep the progress and pics coming


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## Reckers

Moving the conversation was a good idea---thanks. I'll skip the plaster unless I see a reason to use it, and thanks for your input. The problem with wood ties is they look like the real thing. *L* In contrast, the stamped-metal ties attached to my track don't, and next to wood ties, they look really wrong. The molded-plastic ones are a better match. And by the way, finally being able to run the trains instead of just talk about them is great!


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Moving the conversation was a good idea---thanks. I'll skip the plaster unless I see a reason to use it, and thanks for your input. The problem with wood ties is they look like the real thing. *L* In contrast, the stamped-metal ties attached to my track don't, and next to wood ties, they look really wrong. The molded-plastic ones are a better match. And by the way, finally being able to run the trains instead of just talk about them is great!


My three rail has about the same amount of space between them but I guess it's the two rail that makes them look more widely spaced.

The way you all talk about three rail compared to two rail. 
I would think you all are more into being "prototypicality" correct.
I just gave a suggestion you don't have to do it.


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## Reckers

Ed, please....it's "Y'all".  Northerner's can't say it right: my girlfriend has been down here 2 years and she still sounds like she's stuttering when she says it. :laugh: As for the ties, I'm in agreement with you: the S scale track looks like a mouth with half the teeth missing. It needs the extra ties to look right, but those will have to go in at the very end. Right now, I have to learn landscaping from Tankist and others, then develop my own personal style of it.


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Ed, please....it's "Y'all".  Northerner's can't say it right: my girlfriend has been down here 2 years and she still sounds like she's stuttering when she says it. :laugh: As for the ties, I'm in agreement with you: the S scale track looks like a mouth with half the teeth missing. It needs the extra ties to look right, but those will have to go in at the very end. Right now, I have to learn landscaping from Tankist and others, then develop my own personal style of it.



You mean uuuuuuu-aLLLLLLL

Question........ I never worked with the foam board. How good does the plaster (or whatever you use) bond to the foam? Do you need to do anything special before you apply whatever your going to use for the terrain? Or does it just adhere to it OK by it's self?
When I redo my small N layout I am going with the foam board. Though I don't think I can work with the pink stuff. I will have to paint it first.:laugh:
What kind of paint would be best for the foam? You would think that it would take a lot of paint to cover it. Doesn't the foam suck up the paint like a sponge?

Are you going for being "prototypicality" correct. Anton asked.
Are you? I am curious too.


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## Big Ed

Looking at this picture, on the right side what do you have on the wall the electric box?
On the left side of the picture, how much space do you have from the table to the wall?
I am making your layout bigger in my mind.

You (like me) are running close to the side of the table with the rail.

Do you have some kind of plan for the sides in case of a derailment? Like TJ did with the foam pipe insulation.

Or just line the floor with pillows?


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## Reckers

Ed, thank you for pointing out Anton's question. Anton, mine will not be a prototypical layout: it admittedly runs nowhere and serves no one. I plan to use the plastic ties because I'm not willing to pull all the old metal ties off the rails and replace them for authenticity. If I were to describe what I was doing, it would be to build the kid's model railroad I never had coupled with an effort toward developing my modelling skills. Whimsy will be an occasional component: I saw a movie, recently, that had Stonehenge-like megaliths and thought "That would look cool in an isolated area of the forest on my layout!"

Ed, it's more like "Yawll"...one syllable! Since Anton says he didn't plaster his, I don't see any reason to do so: I thought, incorrectly, that he had recommended it. I would characterize Anton's layout as representing granite; mine will be more like sandstone, if it comes out the way I want it to. You'll notice Anton used molded-plaster to good effect to represent the sharp angular surfaces that granite produces when blasted; mine will be more rounded. His are blue-gray with a hint of red from iron content; mine will lean more toward the pale brown area of the spectrum.

The pink stuff takes acrylic paint well (stay away from oil-based paint). It lays on the surface rather than soaking in, much like painting drywall or plywood. It does not drink up the paint. It's nice to work with: light to handle and one coat is sufficient. It cuts smoothly and easily with a razor knife and doesn't crumble like white styrofoam.

What I plan to work it with, at this point, are the razor knife, an electric carving knife, and an electric sander to contour the edges. Since I haven't done this before, we'll find out how well they work to texture it: I'll describe it as I go along. The look I'm going for is a sandstone ridge that extends across the back (long) side of the layout and has outcroppings that reach forward across the table toward the front (long) side, with a lake in the center. This is sort of an isolated resort area...the internal siding on the left is to service it and will have a small platform. Small frame cottages and boat docks, trails through the woods...that kind of thing. The train is the only way in or out for passengers and supplies. Eventually, the second table will have it's own train station in Christmas Village and the trains will travel back and forth.


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## Big Ed

What I plan to work it with, at this point, are the razor knife, an electric carving knife, and an electric sander to contour the edges. Since I haven't done this before, we'll find out how well they work to texture it.


Thats what I said UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
 not a Y but a U! but pronounced YYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Some swear by the electric heat knife for shaping the foam.


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## Komodo

Is it possible to ballast S scale track?


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## Stillakid

Reckers, next time you win, "Big!"

http://www.craftershotknife.com/Hobby_Hot_Wire_Tools.php


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## Big Ed

Komodo said:


> Is it possible to ballast S scale track?




Sure it's possible to ballast any gauge track. Just got to get the proper ballast to match the scale.


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## Reckers

QUOTE=big ed;32036]
View attachment 3470


Looking at this picture, on the right side what do you have on the wall the electric box?
On the left side of the picture, how much space do you have from the table to the wall?
I am making your layout bigger in my mind.

You (like me) are running close to the side of the table with the rail.

Do you have some kind of plan for the sides in case of a derailment? Like TJ did with the foam pipe insulation.

Or just line the floor with pillows?[/QUOTE]

Ed, looking at the picture, the "back" of the layout will be the right, the "front" is left, and the transformer is just temporarily on that corner. The wooden box on the wall is the fuse box for the house; the table, when in it's planned location, will have about 20 to 24" of clearance on three sides. The fourth side is the center of the room. The table is on carpet with those plastic furniture slides under the legs, so I can shove the table around easily: it slides will on the carpet.

Derailment....what's that? This is S scale!

Okay, a serious answer. *L* Right now, with no effort to solder track joints and so on, I have a 100 amp tranny running it with only one electrical connection point. I've had two engines running separately and together at full bore and not had a derailment. I think the table is so flat, with those pink sheets, it's not going to be much of an issue. You may have read in my earlier posts what I said about minimal attachment (glue) of the sheets to the OSB so they would float? IMHO, that proved to be an inspired idea: if the wood is expanding and contracting, the sheet rises or falls as a large, flat plate. Had I glued it on all 4 sides, it would tend to bend with the wood and give a more uneven surface. Or perhaps I'm just extra lucky. If I do have a derailment issue, I will simply take some very thin panelling and cut some 1-foot wide strips to attach to my 2x4 framework. 4" above the surface on three sides for a retaining wall and 8" below to make pretty and cover the 2x4 frame. When I start the bridge to the other table, I'll isolate (fiber pins) the stretch of track that runs from the front center to the crossing and off the table to the bridge. That will allow me to stop a train headed for a collision at the crossing and to control the speed to the bridge, if need be. Across the bridge, another tranny will take over with a sustainable speed for that table and then return to my main table and the main tranny.


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## Reckers

big ed said:


> What I plan to work it with, at this point, are the razor knife, an electric carving knife, and an electric sander to contour the edges. Since I haven't done this before, we'll find out how well they work to texture it.
> 
> 
> Thats what I said UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
> not a Y but a U! but pronounced YYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
> 
> Some swear by the electric heat knife for shaping the foam.


I considered the heat knife---it's a great tool. However, It's best for cutting smooth, vertical lines and creating matching cuts (glue several sheets of foam together and do one long cut where all edges will match.) In my case, I want to cut them separately because I don't want the edges to match. Think of layers of sandstone that are formed by the wind: each layer weathers at a different rate.


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## Reckers

Komodo said:


> Is it possible to ballast S scale track?


Komodo,

Absolutely. The idea is to match your 'rocks' to your scale. Hobby shops sell the stuff, but some people use a cheaper alternative: aquarium gravel. In either case, what you use should look like the right size of rock for your scale. Around here, a ballast rock is about the size of a baseball: rain won't wash them away easily. In my case, I need to look for rock that would be baseball-sized for a 1" tall man!


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## Reckers

Stillakid said:


> Reckers, next time you win, "Big!"
> 
> http://www.craftershotknife.com/Hobby_Hot_Wire_Tools.php


Jim, thanks for the site! If I find I need one, that's a good source and worth saving. I also posted, a while back, instructions on how to make one yourself. I found it on a site where a guy uses it to make foam surfboards and cuts them out with a really big one!


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## Komodo

Reckers said:


> Komodo,
> 
> Absolutely. The idea is to match your 'rocks' to your scale. Hobby shops sell the stuff, but some people use a cheaper alternative: aquarium gravel. In either case, what you use should look like the right size of rock for your scale. Around here, a ballast rock is about the size of a baseball: rain won't wash them away easily. In my case, I need to look for rock that would be baseball-sized for a 1" tall man!


I have seen someone use pig feed for a substitute.
This would probs go well with mine, i will put the darker on my lighter tracks and lighter on the darker tracks: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/BAL-GB/page/1 now i will stop spamming your thread


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## Big Ed

when in it's planned location, will have about 20 to 24" of clearance on three sides.


Are you sure that's enough room for you to get into?


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## Big Ed

Komodo said:


> I have seen someone use pig feed for a substitute.
> This would probs go well with mine, i will put the darker on my lighter tracks and lighter on the darker tracks: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/BAL-GB/page/1 now i will stop spamming your thread




Pig feed? What do they feed pigs? Rocks?:laugh:
(I truly don't know as I never fed a pig.)

If it's edible I would worry about mice or worst yet rats, invading my layout to get a free meal!


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## Reckers

big ed said:


> when in it's planned location, will have about 20 to 24" of clearance on three sides.
> 
> 
> Are you sure that's enough room for you to get into?


*LOL* You been lookin at my picture? 

Actually, I've probably got more room than that, though I haven't measured it. I'm working both long sides of the table at once right now without a problem, and I can drag the short side out toward the center of the room, too. It's just against the wall for convenience, right now: I pushed it down there to get some boxes out of the corner.


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## Reckers

Komodo said:


> I have seen someone use pig feed for a substitute.
> This would probs go well with mine, i will put the darker on my lighter tracks and lighter on the darker tracks: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/BAL-GB/page/1 now i will stop spamming your thread




Komodo, 

That's a new one on me! I've heard of using cat litter, too. I'd suggest not using either: cat litter has aromatic control ingredients that will cause track to corrode, or so I've been told. I'd have to wonder if Purina Pig Chow might have a similar problem. And Komodo Dragons are cool, without a doubt!


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## Reckers

big ed said:


> Pig feed? What do they feed pigs? Rocks?:laugh:
> (I truly don't know as I never fed a pig.)
> 
> If it's edible I would worry about mice or worst yet rats, invading my layout to get a free meal!


RATS? Where do you think he lives, Ed? New Jersey???:laugh:


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## Komodo

big ed said:


> Pig feed? What do they feed pigs? Rocks?:laugh:
> (I truly don't know as I never fed a pig.)
> 
> If it's edible I would worry about mice or worst yet rats, invading my layout to get a free meal!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qPggc0ycD4 . Its like a rocky thing. And no i don't think they feed pigs with it. Its not slobby, and theres no gravy. ( not me in vid, me no have youtube account =( )


----------



## Reckers

Back to work, again....last weekend, I started a mountain range. Originally, it was to have a series of tunnels, but now I'm leaning towards one long tunnel. Anyway, here goes. The first step was geology: deciding what kind of rock they were composed of. Harder stone like granite would have sharp, angular edges; sedimentary rock like sandstone would be more easily worn and rounded by wind and water. I chose sandstone.
At this point, I'll ask those knowledgeable about rock formation to forgive a brief explanation---skip this paragraph. Sandstone is formed when an inland sea accumulates eons of sediment and compresses it into a soft stone. This tends to form layers because geological activity stops and restarts the process. The water depth and length of quiet, uneventless time (think 10,000 years) determines how thick and hard the sandstone will be. Consequently, a sandstone ridge would consist of layers of sandstone instead of one huge block, and those layers would erode at different rates.

Okay, back to trains. The mountain range will be in horizontal layers; the layers will have different thicknesses and will erode differently. The bottomemost layer is a 1/2" foam sheet. I freehanded a contour with a Sharpie pen and then started cutting with a razor knife. The back edge will remain straight: it's my tunnel wall.


----------



## Reckers

Next step is to sand that cut down smooth: I found an electric sander worked just fine. Since this one is the bottom layer, I only rounded the top edge: the bottom edge of that particular sandstone stratum is somewhere underground. It lays flat on the tabletop, but the other layers will have their top and bottom edges rounded. 

Next, I use that for a template to work up a thicker layer of 3" foam. This is harder to work with. I found a portable saber saw or jig saw to be the tool of choice to start with. I laid the template (1/2" layer I just cut out) on top and traced around it. STOP!!!! Okay, this is a place I screwed up. I matched the back (straight) edges before I traced. Since the layers of the hill will slope, I should have back-stepped the 3" layer an inch or two: it should have been less wide than the bottom layer. See that straight edge on the back of the 3" sheet? I'll eventually have to remove an inch-wide strip down that edge so my hill will slope as it rises. I'm not gonna do any pic of that step.
Cutting the 3" foam is problematic---it's too thick for the saw to cut through. This is kind of nice in that I can't accidentally cut something beneath it. I used the saw and then came back with Mr. Razor knife to finish the job.


----------



## Reckers

Time to work the edge....and most of these pics will be out of focus---sorry.

The electric knife proved worthless for this and went back to the kitchen. In it's place, a coarse key-hole saw went into play to contour the edges:

















Finished cutting:


----------



## Reckers

Contours and texture----saws leave straight lines like claw marks, and these have to go----nature abhors a straight line. Also, erosion would have it's way with both the top and bottom edges of this foam-sandstone stratum. An electric sander does the trick:


----------



## Reckers

An odd feature I found was internal seams within the 3" foam board: those run the length of it, hidden inside. They'll have to be filled with latex caulk, where visible.


----------



## Komodo

looking good. im sure it will turn out good!


----------



## Reckers

Komodo said:


> looking good. im sure it will turn out good!


Thanks, K-Man!


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## Reckers

Getting back to bidness. The mountain range needs two more 1/2" thicknesses to reach tunnel-roof height, then one more to cover the tunnel. After that, whatever goes up higher is decor. The original base 1/2" layer was the template for the 3" layer above it; it, in turn, is the template for the 1/2" layer atop it, and so on, each layer retreating back from the visual front edge.

This is the 3" being traced to outline the front of the layer to go above it, which will be made from 2 left-over sheet scraps:










after cutting:











Assembled----










The still need to have the edges sanded and rounded, but you get the idea. I need to do this again with one more thin sheet: at that point, another thin sheet will cover the tunnel and create the base for the elevated stretch that will run above the tunnel. I hope. *L*


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## tjcruiser

Hey Reck,

I'm just catching up on your thread here. Great work, and I really like your vision of the "stepped back, softly curved layers of sandstone". Random alternating foam thicknesses should work great for that. I visited Sedona some years back, and there were many hills that had that softly layered topography.

When I built the little mountain/tunnel on my HO layout, I experimented a bit with what tools (that I had on hand) would work best for cutting / shaping. Here's what I found (though others will have their own thoughts)...

1. Super-sharp single edge razor blades cut through THIN stuff just fine.

2. For cutting (not sculpting) thicker stuff, cerated (sp?) knives in a sawing motion work much better than sharp non-cerated knives.

3. The old drywall keyhole saw made quick work of ROUGHING IN hillside contouring.

4. I, too, went the sander route: something like 80-grit on a belt sander. I also found that an 80 (or 60) grit drum disc (about 2" diameter, 1.5" tall) spinning in my drill chuck helped quite a bit with the local smoothing and curvy contouring.

5. In some areas, my keyhole sculpting left rough tooling marks. Since I was going for a somewhat-jagged granite look, I left many of these as they were. In other areas, I sanded things a bit smoother. And -- importantly -- where my keyholing inadvertently gouged out more than I had intended, I filled in and smoothed things out a bit with latex caulk (smoothed to shape with a wet finger).

Back to your stuff ...

I only used 1" and 2" foam ... never the 3". I'm amazed to hear you report that the 3" foam has internal laminate joints! I wouldn't have guessed that! Thanks for the heads up on this.

On any given layer, if you have to build up that layer from 2 or 3 pieces, try to stagger those butt joints from the corresponding butt joints in any adjacent layers. The finished "glued stack" will be stronger for it.

I echo your comments about about painting. Latex / acrylic works fine. Essentially zero soak in. I used some leftover light-brown latex house wall paint as a basecoat layer on my mountain, then weathered it with several tones of acrylic artists paint.

In planning your internal tunnel height, be 100% confident about your required clearance. I.e., avoid the "TJ stupid mistake" ... I had looked at all of my locos and cars ... but FORGOT to measure the smokestack on one of my cabooses. The high point, of course. Dohh! Think about your future car stock, and any payloads, too.

Thanks for the detailed updates, and keep us posted!

TJ


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## Rich_Trains

Len,

This is great. Like you I have not been able to put up a layout until now. Mine will be much smaller, probably about 4x8, Flyer S gauge. I’m sure I can adapt a lot of what you’re teaching all of us on a smaller scale. I have already learned a lot as I watch your progress.

Thanks,
Rich


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## Reckers

I'm glad to help, Rich. It's a learning experience for me---I'm hoping it will encourage others to take the jump and try it!


----------



## Reckers

TJ,

Thanks for the comments and encouragement. The seams in the 3" sheets are linear gaps as opposed to another substance or a harder density. I'm guessing the sheets were extruded in narrower widths, butted together on a table and then given a bonding, surface sheet of thinner material on either 4 x 8 face. You don't encounter it until you cut or sand the surface.
I'm leaving about an inch of clearance above my steamer smokestack....since I'm going to leave the back side of my mountain range open for access, any future demands would be met by hacking a clearance channel into the ceiling. I don't want to raise it any higher because the next phase will be a second layer of track above the tunnel: I don't want to put an excessive climb into the slopes.

I'll work on it some more today---See what I can get done around laundry and mowing!

Thanks again,


----------



## Reckers

Moving on...two observations. The first is that the foam sheets have a thin, plastic coating on them that can be peeled off. My suggestion is to leave it on while you are cutting because the saw slides easily on it without gouging the pink board. Peel it off when it's sanding time, though, because it just gets in the way and probably gums up the sandpaper.

The second is about flaws in your cutting. My cutting left a rough edge:










This looks like a problem that can only be resolved by endless sanding, but it's an opportunity. You don't want ledges that perfectly imitate the ones above and below. To sand this one out, break off the excess and then use the sander to take a really deep grove from the top or bottom and then round it out: ledges have areas where the water will erode them and cause a collapse beneath the shelf or erode the top. No need to go all the way through----just widen it and sort of hollow it out.


----------



## Reckers

That 3" thick sheet still has some erosion coming it's way, but that will happen later. Back to the tunnel. I bought this great gauge from the LHS for only $75. Placed under a weight, it extends across the right-of-way and shows me the current rock ledge's height in relation to the smokestack:










I thought it was just a stick at first, but he assured me it was cutting-edge technology and well worth the cost. At any rate, I now have a tunnel wall that is just high enough for the smokestack to fit under and to contain enough smoke and fumes to kill everyone on the train as it goes through the tunnel. One more layer up will be sufficient, then it's time to build across the top. On the opposite side, the wall will be open---there will be a nominal framework to hold up the mountain, but that's all. Out of sight, out of mind.


----------



## Big Ed

Looks like your having fun making a mess. Like a kid in a sandbox.

I am just watching.

I can't give you any advice as I never screwed around with foam.
But I might in the future. So I am absorbing in all the info.

I won't say looking good yet, I will wait to see what the end results are.


----------



## Reckers

Back to the front...so to speak.




















The addition of scree (fallen rock and rubble) and greenery will do a lot to improve the rock ledges. However, I can't work on that yet. There's the tunnel to finish...and there's a lake under that point. You can't see it, yet, but it's there. The mountain range can't be glued down until the lake is in and the tunnel is done. Time to go cut the grass.


----------



## Reckers

big ed said:


> Looks like your having fun making a mess. Like a kid in a sandbox.
> 
> I am just watching.
> 
> I can't give you any advice as I never screwed around with foam.
> But I might in the future. So I am absorbing in all the info.
> 
> I won't say looking good yet, I will wait to see what the end results are.


I am having fun with it, Ed. *L* Started sneezing, yesterday, from all the foam dust...I'm coming down with pink lung!! As far as looking good at this point, I would flatly deny that. It's still in the Playdough stages. However, when the paint and greenery go on, you'll see an overnight transition and improvement.


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## tjcruiser

A suggestion that you may have heard me say before ...

When it comes time to glue the panels together, use a few dabs of hot glue in addition to your actual structural adhesive ... the hot glue will offer a quick grab, while the stronger adhesive eventually cures.

TJ


----------



## Reckers

I'll keep that in mind, TJ. At this point, I'm a long way from glueing anything---this is all new to me, so I want to really take it slowly and avoid screwing it up!


----------



## Reckers

Last pic from yesterday's work...the next layer will top the tunnel and lay the base for the tracks above it, but the lake has to go in, first.


----------



## Stillakid

Len, have you seen Timmy's new layout? Pretty cool

http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/


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## Reckers

I hand't been following it, Jim----that looks very clean and neat, though! Great workmanship! I'm still muddling my way through on mine, but I bought the lake, yesterday. *L* My girlfriend has plans for us for the weekend, so it looks like I'm getting a break from the layout work for a while, like it or not.


----------



## tooter

Yeah, Reck... real life just gets in the way of train time! :laugh:

Thanks for taking the time to document your learning curve of the unfolding building process as it iwill be a great help to me for when I'm doing mine. 

Greg


----------



## Reckers

Fer real----life calls and you have to answer. Thanks for your kind words, Greg; I'm hoping it proves of some use, even if it falls into "Here's a whole list of things I DON"T want to do, now that I see what he did!" I'm having fun with it and it's a real challenge. Last night, my girlfriend actually looked at it for the first time and out of the blue, suddenly said, "Hey....is there any way you can put a circus on this thing? You've got lots of room....and what about a cemetery? And vampires? Could you do that???" So...after weeks of "Yeah, yeah, trains, whatever...." it would appear I might suddenly have a partner in this thing.


----------



## tankist

Reck, from the fuzzy photo it seems that you could use a better lighting in there. this was an eye opener for me, as soon as i installed more lights it was like "ahhhhh!!!" so much easier and more pleasant to work. think about it, IMHO biggest upgrade that one could do


----------



## Reckers

Anton, you're right, and my camera and my photograhy skills both could use some improvement. What looks like a decent pic through the lil lcd screen comes out to closely-focused. I've tried using the tripod, too, but not with great success.

It's a rental house and has some peculiarities. One is that, for the carpeted, finished side of the basement, there is zero lighting besides the windows. I've put in several floor lamps and you're right, it definitely needs more. I'll have to look for some lighting I can wire in, myself, among the ceiling tiles.


----------



## Rich_Trains

Hi Len,

I have a question about how you intend to permanently mount the track once you know the final configuration. Wire brads, small screws? I also assume they will have to be long enough to get through the pink foam to the OSB. 

Have you done any tests to see how easy, or hard, it is to put a nail or screw into the OSB?

Rich


----------



## tankist

Len, chances are your camera is ok . if it is a recent one, no matter make/model it is an excellent image acquisition device (every single point-shooter surpassed the point of "excellent" quality image). as far as your skill i'm not sure but there are plenty material written on scale model photography, so nothing stops you from improving that skill. IMHO, photography is integral part of modeling - you need to be able to present your work to others to either get criticism and suggestions or simply to show off.
i will try to find you some articles.

you have suspended ceiling ? that is great, you can replace several tiles with fluorescent fixture. it is not expensive at all. in my case i found couple old ones thrown out by neighbor and my expense was just the tubes as it was 100% functional. the upgrade exceeded all my expectations, i cant say enough how nice it it is to work in well lit environment, it seems as if my mood went up (unless work is behind PC, i like it dark in the office  ) 
try craiglist to see if anyone wants to get rid of theirs.





Rich_Trains said:


> Hi Len,
> 
> I have a question about how you intend to permanently mount the track once you know the final configuration. Wire brads, small screws? I also assume they will have to be long enough to get through the pink foam to the OSB.
> 
> Have you done any tests to see how easy, or hard, it is to put a nail or screw into the OSB?
> 
> Rich


i would suggest glue -> adhesive caulk. will hold well but will not transmit sound to the board.

as far as nailing into OSB i wouldn't do it.


----------



## tjcruiser

Re: digital photos ...

I'm a complete novice, with a basic 2.5 mpix camera. For what it's worth, I follow a few steps that I find helpful to improve the quality of my pics:

1. When snapping pic, generate view / zoom slightly oversize, with extra margin space.

2. Then, I use "Microsoft Photo Editor" to do the following (though dozens of other photo editing tools will work, too) ...

a. Crop image to a more centered / contained view.

b. Use "Image / Balance" tool to tweak "Gamma" or the spread between light and dark tones in the photo. I find this "Gamma" tool works wonders.

c. Use "Image / Balance" tool to tweak Contrast and Brightness a bit, if needed.

Cheers,

TJ


EDIT --

Anton ... good call on the start of a new photo thread. Reck, sorry to sidetrack here ...

TJ


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## tankist

tj, i know it is me who deviated first but lets try and keep this thread focused to Len's layout construction. 
i will post a separate topic about scale model photography later, or you can start one, i will add my 2 cents in there later.
this is an important topic


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## Reckers

Rich,

I have to go along with Tankist on the nail thing. I plan to use either latex or silicone caulking, and not much of it. That may turn out to be a mistake, but here is my premise. I plan to use a straightedge and get my straight pieces as inline as possible, use something to weight them down to flatten them into being all the same level, and then soldering. That seems to me the best way to avoid speed-derailments. For curves, I'll get them all where I want them, flatten them where appropriate and solder. The idea is to have 3 to 5 piece segments of track. That's pretty rigid, but can still be disassembled. Finally, I'll use the caulk to fasten the ties to the pink board. You can buy black silicone caulk that will match the ties. Using nails will tend to convey vibrations to the table surface and project them into the room.

Finally, if I have to rip it up to move, the pink board gets some divots, but there's no yanking the nails!

TJ and Tankist, thanks for the advice and coaching on the lighting and photography. I plan to take them all seriously. I wish I could try to work on everything at one time! *L*


----------



## Stillakid

Len, with the plastic ties, are they "snap-on?" or do they have to be glued? Will you install them before or after you solder your sections(heat transferred to plastic?)


----------



## Reckers

Definitely after, Jim. They'll be one of the last additions to the layout, just before ballasting. They are nothing more than molded plastic ties, rectangular, and will slide in beneath the rails without any attachment beyond glue to the table surface. If you look up the website, they have a phone # and will mail you a sample tie for free.


----------



## Stillakid

Thanks Len!
Will do


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## tjcruiser

Reckers said:


> I bought the lake, yesterday


(Better than "buying the farm", I guess!)

Did you go the "bumpy" glass route? I like your earlier idea about painting the textured side, then laying that face down, I think.

Any specific details on glass thickness, texture specs, etc.?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Rich_Trains

Owens Corning ProPink sheathing and the Dow equivalent don't seem to be avialable in any of the big box stores in Southern California. 

Have any forum members from California experienced this too? If so what did you use?

Thanks,
Rich


----------



## Reckers

TJ, I'm going with a product called Waterglass. I bought a rectangle of it at a local stained-glass supply house. There is another product called Aquatex that is popular to use; it's for shower enclosures and is awfully expensive. Aquatex is lumpy on both sides and I believe is tempered; mine is not tempered and is textured on one side. I need to test painting each side and see what I like better. Once I do, I need to find my glass cutter among the basement disaster and cut it to shape.  I'll show that in the thread as I work it up.


----------



## Reckers

Rich, I found mine at Home Depot: Lowes did not carry it. I heard that it was no longer going to be carried in Canada because of some environmental issue and that they had a purple version, but I don't know how workable it is. Perhaps CA is following their lead and has outlawed it.


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

Thanks for the glass info ... looking forward to your thread details on this at some future point!

TJ


----------



## Rich_Trains

Len, Thanks. I'll look for the purple board or whatever replaces the pink foam. You may be right about it being an environmental issue. Ths may be similar to the phase out of most incadescent lamps.


----------



## Reckers

TJ, I hope to do a little bit of work on it this weekend---If I do, I'll take some pics. Right now, the holdup is determining which box has my glass cutter!

Rich, I went back and searched the threads to find the post: to my chagrin, it was from me! 

"Quoted from O gauge forum, today:

Well its official Just got off the phone with Mark from tech in owens corning. Because of the Montreal "Enviromental"Building codes . The blowing agent had to be changed. that blows. I found the new foam to be very hard to work with. 
I explained my concerns to him . He said their where also people in his office that used it for their hobbies as well and where a little upset. His suggestion was STOCK UP NOW. They just switched over their largest plant to make this enviromental purple stuff. "

__________________


----------



## Reckers

Sunday morning---the lawn's mowed and it's time for a trip to the lake. I bought a rectangle of Waterglass at a local stained-glass shop. I've got some experience with working glass, so I took it home to work it up, myself. However, I really want to discourage anyone from attempting that without experience: there's a potential for injury and simply breaking an expensive sheet of glass. 
I bought a piece of Waterglass that was 16" x 24" or 30"....I don't remember which...and it cost about $30. The Aquatex stuff is about double that in cost. Aquatex is shower-door glass, lumpy on both sides and probably tempered; Waterglass is made for stained-glass applications and is non-tempered. So, how do you use either if you don't cut glass?
1. Determine how big a piece you need.
2. Call ahead and ask if they have a piece in stock that can be cut down to your size.
3. Assuming a yes for #2, go visit them---they're invariably nice people. Explain what you are using it for. They'll likely show you Waterglass and several other textures; select the one you like. DO NOT GO FOR TINTED OR COLORED GLASS. Okay---it won't hurt if you do, but it's really gonna screw up the color of your lake, later. Or not---you may have a better idea than mine for that.
4. Two choices, now:
A. Get him to cut the rectangle, take it home and recess the entire sheet into your 
foam, then build shoreline out over it with your material of choice, or:
B. Tell him you want to take it home, draw a shoreline, and ask how much he'll charge to cut it for you. If you do this, keep it simple: glass loves to follow stress lines when it breaks, and hates inside curves. Think of scratching a piece of plastic and then flexing it at the scratch. If you scratch a tight angle, it's going to bypass your angle and continue to break in a straight line. As for the curve, consider the letter "C". You can easily cut the outside curve of the "C", but no one will try to cut that inside curve. The glass will simply break in a straight line across the arm of the "C".

So...take your pic, but there's one more detail. Either way, before leaving, ask that he grind the edges to take off the splinters and sharp edges. Make sure he understands you are going to recess it in foam, though. If he asks if you mean you want it beveled, the answer is no. Tell him you don't need it polished down as if it were going on a coffee table: you just want to avoid slicing your fingertip while you work with it. He'll understand, since he cuts his regularly.

Eventually, you end up with something like this:










You'll notice the textured surface is face up and the flat side is down (because I said so. I can't see it in the pic, either). More important, what about that long, straight edge at the back? I can afford to leave it straight because that pointed ridge coming out from my mountain range will protrude into my lake. The straight edge on the glass will be hidden beneath the slope of the hill.


----------



## Big Ed

Very nice, in the winter you can place Ice skaters on it.:thumbsup:

Question....,
Instead of trying to cut the glass, couldn't you just tuck it under the foam shoreline and eliminate the need for cutting the glass, as you will get the shoreline effect from the foam?


Easier?


----------



## Reckers

big ed said:


> Very nice, in the winter you can place Ice skaters on it.:thumbsup:
> 
> Question....,
> Instead of trying to cut the glass, couldn't you just tuck it under the foam shoreline and eliminate the need for cutting the glass, as you will get the shoreline effect from the foam?
> 
> 
> Easier?


As a matter of fact, yes....I'd refer you to 4.A. In my previous post.  To elaborate...as Ed pointed out, you can recess the entire rectangular sheet of glass into the foam. After that, you can use caulking to treat the edges, as I will my own edges, and come out considerably past that to make the curves of your shoreline on top of the glass. One drawback to that method, though, is you have to remember you have glass beneath the shore. When you come back in six months and build a bait shop or cabin at the edge of the lake, drilling to put the lighting in could get ugly. Or...be done in a snap!

P.S: When I'm finished painting the glass, I'll be tucking one whole side under the foam ridge---same thing Ed was suggesting.


----------



## Reckers

I wanted to create a certain effect in painting the glass...let me explain what I'm up to. Water is rarely one color: it's often lighter in some places, darker in others, and has occasional sparkles of light in it. I'm looking at what I have and trying to decide if I like it or not.

Step one was cutting the glass....these are the leftovers. I'm saving them for now in case I want to do some small pools, a well...any place you'd see water in landscape.










I wanted to create the sparkle of light by using a very light dusting of gold paint on the back of the glass, then painting all of the back with a green color. A regular spraypaint nozzle does too good a job of evenly covering, so I used a double-thickness of windowscreen to block most of the gold:










Once the gold dried, a hunter-green coat went on. Lighting is still dim in the basement: you're right, Anton, I'm gonna have to get some flourescents in there...but here's the result:










Another view:










And finally, the outline of foam board to be removed to recess the glass into the board:










Reflectivity is good: even in the dim light, it's reflecting my pink mountain range. Water texture is very pleasing to the eye, as well. I'll try it with some stronger light, this week, to see if the color satisfies me. It's no big deal to scrape and repaint until I have it where I want it, but so far, I'm really satisfied with the water effect.


----------



## tooter

Wow... the surface reflections look *so* real!  :thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

Re: portions of glass recessed under foam ...



Reckers said:


> One drawback to that method, though, is you have to remember you have glass beneath the shore. When you come back in six months and build a bait shop or cabin at the edge of the lake, drilling to put the lighting in could get ugly. Or...be done in a snap!


Reck, that's an excellent point that should be emphasized. "Out of sight, out of mind", and all that.

With your glass experience, is there anything special that you would recommend in painting the glass (type of paint and/or treatment of the glass surface prior to paint) and/or topcoat (bottom coat, really!) over the paint to seal things?

That's a really clever idea to use the double screen to diffuse the paint spray ... I've never tried anything like that before, but am curious to experiment along those lines to see the possibilities.

The ripples on the lake surface in your "3:36 PM" photo are incredibly realistic. Really nice choice in the glass texture, especially with lighting and surface reflections.

Thanks, Reck!

TJ


----------



## Reckers

choo choo said:


> Wow... the surface reflections look *so* real!  :thumbsup:


Thank you! I've been studying the whole thing for about 6 months, trying to figure out the best way to go about it. I may redo the color, but then again, I may decide to leave it as is.


----------



## Reckers

Thank you, TJ! It's pretty simple, really...just choose a glass with a very gentle, rolling texture instead of something more dramatic. The more dramatic and pronounced the pattern in the glass, the less it looks like water.
Process is really simple---no clear coats or anything of that nature. Just get the glass, clean it really well, and paint the flat side. It goes in the layout flat-side down, ripples up, just like water. *L* No need for a bottom coat or sealer: it's not going to have any moving parts below to scratch it. Best part is that, if you don't like the first attempt, 5 minutes with a razor blade scraper lets you start all over.


----------



## Komodo

Reckers said:


> I wanted to create a certain effect in painting the glass...let me explain what I'm up to. Water is rarely one color: it's often lighter in some places, darker in others, and has occasional sparkles of light in it. I'm looking at what I have and trying to decide if I like it or not.
> 
> Step one was cutting the glass....these are the leftovers. I'm saving them for now in case I want to do some small pools, a well...any place you'd see water in landscape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to create the sparkle of light by using a very light dusting of gold paint on the back of the glass, then painting all of the back with a green color. A regular spraypaint nozzle does too good a job of evenly covering, so I used a double-thickness of windowscreen to block most of the gold:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once the gold dried, a hunter-green coat went on. Lighting is still dim in the basement: you're right, Anton, I'm gonna have to get some flourescents in there...but here's the result:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another view:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And finally, the outline of foam board to be removed to recess the glass into the board:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reflectivity is good: even in the dim light, it's reflecting my pink mountain range. Water texture is very pleasing to the eye, as well. I'll try it with some stronger light, this week, to see if the color satisfies me. It's no big deal to scrape and repaint until I have it where I want it, but so far, I'm really satisfied with the water effect.


that looks suprisingly realistic! :thumbsup:


----------



## Reckers

Thank you, Komodo! I've decided it's a little bit darker than I'd like: I think I'll scrape it and repaint it in the next few weeks with a lighter shade of green. At this point, I think I've got a pretty good handle on it and it will only get better.


----------



## Komodo

just a quick question, what is the steam loco in your first post, and what are the chances of a big boy appearing on your layout?


----------



## tankist

the 3:36 pm picture looks good at that angle. i also can tell you that you took it 15:36 and 46 seconds exactly, and that your camera 
( # Camera Make = SONY, # Camera Model = MVC-CD350)
for some reason thinks we are in september 2005. i also can tell you bunch of stuff on how your cam is configured



turn that date imprint off please!!!


----------



## Reckers

*LOL* Okay, Anton----I'll see if I can figure out how to turn it off. You realize I am camera-challenged by now, don't you? And thank you for the compliment!


----------



## Reckers

Komodo said:


> just a quick question, what is the steam loco in your first post, and what are the chances of a big boy appearing on your layout?



K-Man, that steamer is a 4-4-2 Atlantic that was manufactured in 1949. The likelihood of a Big Boy appearing on my layout is small: it's my understanding they run around $800 and have a lot of problems, fresh out of the box. 

That raises a question I've been wondering about: do the larger engines actually have more pulling power, or just more weight? I put a 4-6-2 Pacific on my temporary track set-up and a 4-4-2 Atlantic and ran them both at the same time. To my surprise, the Pacific was faster. One locomotive against one other doesn't establish much, but it was food for thought. Since I'll have an incline to the top of my little mountain range, I'm curious to see if the Pacific climbs and pulls better because it has 6 drive wheels, or poorer because it weighs more. In other words, is larger actually better, in model railroading?


----------



## Komodo

Reckers said:


> K-Man, that steamer is a 4-4-2 Atlantic that was manufactured in 1949. The likelihood of a Big Boy appearing on my layout is small: it's my understanding they run around $800 and have a lot of problems, fresh out of the box.
> 
> That raises a question I've been wondering about: do the larger engines actually have more pulling power, or just more weight? I put a 4-6-2 Pacific on my temporary track set-up and a 4-4-2 Atlantic and ran them both at the same time. To my surprise, the Pacific was faster. One locomotive against one other doesn't establish much, but it was food for thought. Since I'll have an incline to the top of my little mountain range, I'm curious to see if the Pacific climbs and pulls better because it has 6 drive wheels, or poorer because it weighs more. In other words, is larger actually better, in model railroading?


some guy at a railway museum told me that a big boy could pull more than two dash 9 diesels . but then again i don't know squat about steam engines


----------



## Reckers

Here's a quote from an article about the Big Boy: "Over a ruling grade of 1.14% the 4-8-8-4s could move 4,000 tons of freight at 20-25 mph. When the ruling grade between Ogden, Utah and Green River, Wyoming (176 miles) was reduced to 0.82%, the tonnage rating climbed to 5,360 tons. At 45 mph, these engines developed 6,000 drawbar horsepower. " What will the dash 9 diesels do? 

I read, recently, that the biggest advantage to going from steam to diesel was not power or efficiency, but people. The steam locomotives, it said, required highly-skilled operators to run well, whereas the diesels did not. I can't attest to the accuracy of that statement, but I thought it was interesting.


----------



## Reckers

Komodo,

Since I can't show you a Big Boy on my layout, I thought you might want a look at the real thing. The sheer size of it amazes me--look at the engineer, off to the left!


----------



## Big Ed

BIG BOY'S for YOU?:thumbsup:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8f9VFlNyDQ

Another?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFD8FDaDI4&feature=related

Another?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh5wvNwa57U&feature=related

Theres more.:thumbsup:


----------



## Reckers

What really makes it look authentic is the track: *two rails!!!!*:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> What really makes it look authentic is the track: *two rails!!!!*:laugh::laugh::laugh:


When I look at big boys, I don't even notice the rails.


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> What really makes it look authentic is the track: *two rails!!!!*:laugh::laugh::laugh:


But can you run this on your !*!#@**[email protected]! two rail?

Drool man drool:laugh:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-38091-No...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3caf7ac81c

I got the first bid in there's a cab forward too, I got the first bid in on that too.:thumbsup:

But I know I won't win them. But heck if no one bids I might.:dunno:


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> But can you run this on your !*!#@**[email protected]! two rail?
> 
> Drool man drool:laugh:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-38091-No...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3caf7ac81c
> 
> I got the first bid in there's a cab forward too, I got the first bid in on that too.:thumbsup:
> 
> But I know I won't win them. But heck if no one bids I might.:dunno:


Hey Ed, 

Just for fun I threw in a bid just to see if you had anything behind yours... 

...and you *do*. 

Greg


----------



## Big Ed

choo choo said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Just for fun I threw in a bid just to see if you had anything behind yours...
> 
> ...and you *do*.
> 
> Greg



They will go for a lot more then I bid. Watch them.
But like I said if no one bids I might get lucky.
But if that's the case the auction will get canceled.
Murphy's law.


----------



## Reckers

No, I cannot. *L* But then, let's be honest: an S scale Big Boy is about 25" long and that Challenger is even longer. My layout is 12 feet long (intitial layout), so that thing would be over 1/6 of the layout, sitting still. Talk about looking out of place! It would never reach full speed, either!


----------



## Komodo

hey reckers, i might have to start a S scale layout because most of my cars ( not rolling stock durp.) are 1/66 scale and s scale is closest to that . im hoping to get some ho scale vehicles for my birthday. is there a chance for a diesel to pop up on that layout of yours?


----------



## Reckers

K-Man, I have no plans right now for a diesel---wrong era, you know? Besides, my girlfriend has been berating me lately for spending too much on trains and not enough on her. *L* Seriously, though, the layout is doing a find job of chewing through my wallet, so I've put a freeze on buying more cars or locomotives until it's finished.

You're right about the HO automobiles---they're closer to S scale than any other size. The real problem is buildings. You have to sort between what is HO scale (train) buildings and HO scale (car) buildings and accessories. Long term, I plan to scratch-build to avoid that issue.


----------



## Reckers

Here's one for you to look at, though:

http://cgi.ebay.com/AMERICAN-FLYER-...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item483b87c3e6


----------



## Komodo

thats a nice little engine! where do you buy your stuff?


----------



## Reckers

I buy nearly everything I use on Ebay, although I am buying a transformer from a member of the forum. Big Ed and Stillakid were both kind enough to send me some steamer engines that were S scale, and I have to admit those are my favorites!


----------



## Komodo

hmm! got to be careful of scams on ebay tho!


----------



## tooter

big ed said:


> They will go for a lot more then I bid. Watch them.


I know... I was just joking around. 
The third bid is already $158! :laugh:


----------



## Big Ed

choo choo said:


> I know... I was just joking around.
> The third bid is already $158! :laugh:



I just bumped the bid up some. Just on the Challenger for now.


----------



## Big Ed

You all say the third center rail looks stupid?
There are trains in this world running three rail!:thumbsup:


----------



## Reckers

Hmmm. You know, Ed, those pics seem to prove the point. *L* that middle rail looks mighty stupid, and painting it pink didn't improve anything!:laugh:


----------



## Reckers

Komodo said:


> hmm! got to be careful of scams on ebay tho!


K-Man, you're right---you do have to use good judgement. If a seller does lots of sales, though, and has a 100% rating by people who bought from him, he or she has a reputation they value and want happy customers. The good ones will treat you well, and the customer ratings tell you who the good ones are!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> K-Man, you're right---you do have to use good judgement. If a seller does lots of sales, though, and has a 100% rating by people who bought from him, he or she has a reputation they value and want happy customers. The good ones will treat you well, and the customer ratings tell you who the good ones are!


I will disagree not all want happy campers or business!

Like train city, out of Florida. They have some nice stuff. That's where I won my Bascule bridge. I payed OVER a buck fifty for it and as all ways paid in seconds. It took over a month for them to ship it to me and it was them not the post office fault! I waited at first and them e mailed them. The e mails went unanswered. Well I finally got it a month later. 28 days to be exact!

This is the GREEN POSITIVE feedback I left them,
Took forever to ship but all went well/Thanks

I guess because of the feedback they banned me from bidding on their stuff?
They won't answer e mails or questions?
I went back and followed up my feed back telling what they did and added
Screw them I don't need their stuff!:laugh:

I am complaining to e bay to have them set the site so I can ignore certain sellers. I don't want to waste my time with that seller anymore. E bay don't care about nothing but making $$$ they never responded to me so weekly I send a copy of the first e mail back to them. I don't ever expect to get a reply.:laugh:
This has been going on since Jan 2010. Maybe one day e bay will get tired of receiving them and answer me.

I never been burned but some of the sellers think they are GOD and e bay does too!

Midwinterauctions too. It is a great place to pick up stuff the only problem is the combined shipping rate. I have been buying from them for years but only one item at a time. Well I bought around 5 at shipping around $6 bucks a item.I had to pay $25 for shipping a whopping $5 bucks off they gave me!
When I got the package it only cost them Around $8 bucks to ship!


----------



## Reckers

*points to the "Use good judgement" comment* The defense rests!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> *points to the "Use good judgement" comment* The defense rests!


Good judgment? They have an excellent rating?


----------



## Stillakid

*Good Judgement?*

Ed, like it or not, the problem rests with the consumers. There are so many willing to overlook poor service and even to pay more than true value. eBays success is proof of that. There are so few real deals listed, yet year after year, they grow larger and larger.

As far as complaining, good luck! They're having to much fun raising their rates for selling and allowing the sellers to make extra bucks on postage to cover it.

Who was it that said, "There's an *** made for every seat!":laugh::laugh:


----------



## Reckers

Only one thing left to do, Ed. 

Find a box, find a really ripe roadkill, tape the box up airtight and insert roadkill. Take it to the post office. Phony return address and ship it to them with a note inside that it's your personal review of their performance on ebay!


----------



## Komodo

maybe if your nice reckers komodo might get your this for your birthday  http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200406057


----------



## Reckers

*laughs* Winnie the Pooh, huh? Komodo, I'd have to admit not too many people say I'm nice---I don't think I have much chance of getting it, if being nice is the gauge!


----------



## Reckers

A 336 mght be nice, though....if you all want to go together with Komodo to buy me a prezzie! 

http://americanflyershop.com/vintage-1950s-american-flyer-no-336-steam-locotender


----------



## Stillakid

*Chip in?*

How about I send you a set of 336 decals?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## Big Ed

Komodo said:


> maybe if your nice reckers komodo might get your this for your birthday  http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200406057



S scale???? What the heck am I going to do with S scale?

The only thing I would do with it is send it back to Reckers.:laugh:

Nice car though.....,
Winnie the Poo....Winnie the poo...silly, Willie, silly, nilly,dilly, Winnie the poo.
Got to get a spoon of honey now.:thumbsup::laugh: 

I used to read and watch that all the time when the kids were infants.


----------



## Komodo

http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Flyer-...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53e29664dd

maybee you should bid on that its only 10.49


----------



## Big Ed

Komodo said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Flyer-...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53e29664dd
> 
> maybee you should bid on that its only 10.49


$20.00 to ship! The guys nuts!:thumbsdown:


----------



## Reckers

I'm on a train-buying diet, K....*L* No more, till the layout is running!


----------



## Komodo

i saw some stuff at that antique store today. i dunno if it was o scale or s scale. it was 3 rail. it looked ancient!


----------



## Reckers

It could be either, though more likely O scale. Some S scale 3-rail was made, back in about the 1920's or 1930's. A lot of people like the really ancient stuff---T-Man, Big Ed, Stillakid and TJCruiser are heavily into restoring some of the really old pieces they find.


----------



## Big Ed

Komodo said:


> i saw some stuff at that antique store today. i dunno if it was o scale or s scale. it was 3 rail. it looked ancient!


It could have been Standard gauge...bigger then O.


----------



## Komodo

hmm. i will ask the guy sometime.


----------



## Big Ed

choo choo said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Just for fun I threw in a bid just to see if you had anything behind yours...
> 
> ...and you *do*.
> 
> Greg


Look what the challenger went for, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260642097180&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The other went for $510

I told you I wouldn't win but if no one bid I would have snagged it.
But you can't steal a deal if you don't try.

My $225 would have been a steal!:thumbsup:


----------



## Reckers

*LOL* Send me that $225 and I'll invest it for ya!


----------



## Big Ed

But that $225 would have been well spent and got me the big boy too.:thumbsup:


----------



## Reckers

Back to the lake---stay tuned, disaster is about to strike!!!

Okay, new suggestion to anyone who is going to work with the pink sheet foam: Peel off the clear plastic sheet that coats the surface. Okay, only peel off the top one, but get rid of it. It's showing signs of coming up in places, so I'd recommend stripping it off before doing anything else.

Back to the lake: yes, it seems a very small lake for such a big layout (my girlfriend's observation), but remember, an S scale adult is the right size to drive an HO scale car such as Hot Wheels. So, where scale is concerned, it's a pretty sizeable lake. That said, I can't just let the glass lay on the surface: it needs to be recessed. Two choices: try to uniformly dig a hole about 1/4" deep, or go all the way down to the wood and build up again, uniformly. I chose the latter.

Taking a large razor knife, I followed the previously-traced outline of the glass and cut down to the wood. After a little random cross-hatching, I was able to remove the innards and end up with this:


----------



## Reckers

I should also mention that I was dissatisfied with the color (green) and decided to strip it and start over. TJ, on the second try, I took the gold and simply held it far from the horizontal glass and gave a couple of brief sprays over the glass, about 18" above and horizontal. This was really better than the window-screen system, and I got a very nice random sparkling of gold with a solid blue behind it. Just like that, I killed all the algae in the lake!!!


Laying the glass on/in, I traced any places it was hanging up and trimmed more until it would fit. I then began casting around for something to go beneath it and raise it to the proper level. I considered bubblewrap, but discarded the idea: over time, it might deflate and my lake would begin to go dry as the glass sank. *L* I ended up using sheets of foam shipping wrap, the thin, sponge stuff that comes on rolls. Five layers in neat stacks, trimmed to fit. Then it happened...lifting the glass out of the hole, it snapped and I had two pieces of glass. Argh!!!! The choice was to either start over or do a very neat CA repair job from the back side. Not perfect, but good enough for me. After carefully recessing it again into the hole, I had this:


----------



## Reckers

Yeah, the crack shows, but life goes on. Once the mountains returned to their proper place, we're here:



















Two pics because I like the reflections!


----------



## Big Ed

It's funny how it cracked in line with the crack on the foam.

You could just make it a winter scene and add a few more cracks to make it look like stress cracks in ice.
Edit,
How about some of the stuff they use to repair cracks in windshields? I just watched about how they do that and how the stuff works on TV last week.


----------



## Reckers

I hadn't noticed, but it did pretty much match the foam---go figure. Actually, it looks a lot worse in the photos because they're blown up larger than life---it's no big deal. Someday, someone is gonna "oops" and drop something on the glass---when that happens, I can tell them it was already cracked and they won't feel as bad. If that's the worst thing that happens to me today, I'm gonna go to bed pretty content.


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> I hadn't noticed, but it did pretty much match the foam---go figure. Actually, it looks a lot worse in the photos because they're blown up larger than life---it's no big deal. Someday, someone is gonna "oops" and drop something on the glass---when that happens, I can tell them it was already cracked and they won't feel as bad. If that's the worst thing that happens to me today, I'm gonna go to bed pretty content.


That sucks though as it was looking real nice.:thumbsup:

If it was me I would just have to get another piece of glass.

How about making some kind of foot bridge over the lake?
Mount it right over the crack? Put a couple of fishermen on it and your set.:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

Oh, Reck ... I'm so sorry!

The glass/lake looks great, despite the crack. I really like the "wave" texture, and the "new" blue / gold-fleck looks perfect. Clever job with the recess work, but it's too bad that Murphy jumped in with his Law.

I suspect you're right ... when the layout is fully decorated, and trains are running around, I think the crack will be inconspicuous.

Thanks for the detailed info ... 

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Thank you both! Actually, the flash and magnification of the camera make it look far worse than it is. I'm very pleased with it. TJ, the gold paint.....it's just a very light, random dusting of gold flecks--will look like sunlight catching the tips of the waves, so I'm happy with it. Ed, I could buy another, but it's going to eventually get dinged, anyway. I'll ease it out and trace around it, then put it back and save the tracing. When I finally need to replace it, I'll be able to do it easily. There's just too much chance of destroying a new one while everything else is going in, though. The footbridge idea is nice, but the crack is a curve....it might end up as part of a boat's wake, though.


----------



## Reckers

Okay, the lake is in, fracture and all. *L* Back to the top of the ridge. One line of track runs through the tunnel-in-the-making, but the second layer will cross the ridge above the tunnel. The foam sheet is strong enough to support it, but any sagging will lead to derailments. TIme for some rough, scrap-wood carpentry.

I cut a series of 1" x 3" strips from a scrap of 1x6 and mounted them along the back edge of the layout---I'll make and add more as needed. A scrap of panelling discovered in the attic supplies 6 1/2" strips to make the tunnel roof. First pic is gauging how high to mount the vertical 1x3 pieces:


----------



## Reckers

Next step: adding the panelling. It rests on the wood scraps on the right and on the foam layer on the left. Note it's been roughly recessed into the foam. The left (inner edge) is very slightly lower than the outside edge. It she's gonna fly off the track, I'd rather she do so onto the table than onto the floor!


----------



## Reckers

The paneling scraps project beyond the current ridge: that's to allow me to cross the lower spans of track before going into the descent from the ridge. In the pic above, the train will descend in a straight line to leave this table and cross the basement to another table. At the opposite end, the descent (or ascent) will be a curved one that stays on this table. Tunnel roughly topped out:










The sheet of foam on the left top is upside-down: it will lay on top of the panelling and reach about halfway across the ridge. It's gradually tapering, in shelves, to top out. Once this sheet is in place, it's time to start building the inclines to bring the track to the top of the ridge.

Anton, as I posted the pics, I remembered your 'suggestion' that I turn off the dating of the shots. It was too late for this group, but I promise I have turned it off and you won't see it again!


----------



## Big Ed

Pickup that engine laying on it's side! I am ashamed of you carelessly throwing around a piece of........ "HISTORY"!

No wonder the glass is cracked!

When the heck are you going to post a train riding around?


----------



## Reckers

*LOL* BE QUIET, ED!!!! CAN'T YOU SEE IT'S SLEEPING????

There's not a lot to show at this point---just a locomotive running in a circle. I'll look for a way to post that soon.


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

One word of caution for you ... 

I realize that you won't have much load on the wood-paneling "top deck" over the tunnel, but be careful about the vertical scrap-wood posts that support it. It looks to me like they are of pine, with the wood grain running horizontally, rather than vertically. I wouldn't take much of a bump into one of those for the wood post to split along the grain, and break the column in half.

You might want to glue some small strips of that wood paneling to the face of the pine columns, with the grain running vertically, to reinforce them, or maybe consider replacing them with full vertical-grain posts, or plywood supports.

Me being overly cautious, perhaps ... only a "looking over one's shoulder" suggestion.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

TJ,

I''m always open to sugggestions, and thank you: you're right about the grain. I plan to put several additional supports in, but the biggest protection is in that side will eventually go against the wall, once I make sure there's no tendency to derail. One of my advantages is that there is rarely anyone in the basement besides me. My girlfriend is going down a little more often (to the basement, that is!), but there's no small children. Visitors are discouraged by the gf from going down because it's still such a mess. *L* Since she works every other weekend, my major work takes place the weekends she is away, and I'm alone for the duration.

Thanks,


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

Glad you didn't mind my thinking above. And glad to hear that that side is going up against a wall.

Do keep us posted with your progress ... this "watch things develop" thread is quite informative and fun to check in on!

TJ


----------



## Reckers

I'll do that, and thanks again for the suggestions. They help me plan ahead to avoid some real bozo mistakes!


----------



## tankist

the crack in the glass situation can probably be lessened with a bead of silicon - that edge will be reflecting less light. you also will probably need to find an angle for your shots where it is less visible. as it is right now, i feel the crack is quite distracting.


----------



## Reckers

Anton, you're right---it looks awful in the pic, and I appreciate your suggestion. The good part is, my girlfriend saw it for the first time last night and knew I had broken it, so she was looking for it. Her initial comment was, "Well, you can hardly see it." I will try the silicone bead, though---that's the best idea I've heard aside from totally replacing it.

Thanks!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Anton, you're right---it looks awful in the pic, and I appreciate your suggestion. The good part is, my girlfriend saw it for the first time last night and knew I had broken it, so she was looking for it. Her initial comment was, "Well, you can hardly see it." I will try the silicone bead, though---that's the best idea I've heard aside from totally replacing it.
> 
> Thanks!




My girlfriend is going down a little more often (to the basement, that is!), but there's no small children. 


:thumbsup::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Glad to hear your having fun in your basement.:smilie_daumenpos::appl:







No wonder it's taking so long to construct!:laugh:


----------



## Reckers

*ROTFLMAO!!!!* And that's how MY railroad is run!!!!


----------



## Reckers

8/15/10: A new development. My girlfriend asked me, this morning, to spend today working with her on something she wanted to do. Oh glorious day: she wanted to work on the layout!!!! She works every other weekend, so I generally spend one weekend doing what she'd like and the next working on the train setup. Today, I got both!

So....some discussion and planning, looking at the internet and then shopping for supplies. She asked that one corner area be hers to create a homestead; it's enclosed by tracks on all sides, so some dirt roads will be in the offing. We cut her a pond (green) out of the remaining glass and then cut a recess for it. After that, we took some special paint and turned the pink foam surface into bare soil:










The blue tape is masking tape. The brown is ententionally encroaching upon the right-of-way, and will even more in the future. The black was intended to be shrunk to fit, so to speak. The paint is a textured paint intended to simulate stone:










Once it dries and she has identified where the buildings and roads go, a little spray adhesive and some powdered green foam will go into place over much of the brown. Any place we miss will just be bare earth poking thru. Fencelines and the accompanying weeds will follow, as well.


----------



## Reckers

Here's the pond---she felt it needed to be green instead of blue, more in keeping with the nature of ponds:


----------



## Reckers

We'll embed the pond when the brown paint has dried. In the meantime, some addition to the hill at the far corner of the mountain range. The inner circle of track will enter the tunnel; the outer circle will climb the curve and cross the top of the ridge. Another layer of pink foam has topped the panelling over the tunnel and will be the surface the other line crosses on top of the ridge. More foam will be added for the ascent. Here it is from two angles:


----------



## Reckers

Well, an interesting development. The pink foam comes with a clear plastic coating that peels off. I left it on when I started the project, which may or may not have been a good idea. I started peeling it off on the mountain range, but left it on down here for the flat-landers. Anyway, it reacted with the paint. The paint is still drying, so it's too early to tell the outcome, but the reaction created a gorgeous ripple to the surface of the earth:










The pond is in: it was raised to height and cushioned by the white foam sheets mentioned in the posts about the larger pond. You can see pieces of the foam sheets in the previous post, next to the can of paint.



















I'll have to let it dry overnight before going further. Hopefully, the paint will set up well and we can latex-caulk the pond's edges, then paint them. At worst, we strip off all the plastic and repaint her homestead.


----------



## T-Man

Spray and foam don't mix well. That's how I created the coal loads. The spay just ate into it. Hope it works out.


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

Sometimes, the unintentional and unexpected can yield pleasing results ... as is the case with your brown field. The rippled looks is wonderful. Not sure if it'll be OK structurally, but for looks, it's tops!

Two interesting thing about the pink-stuff foam sold at Home Depot here on the east coast:

1. The latest Owens Corning batch is no longer pink, but more of a light purple shade. I'm not sure why. Did they change the material at all???

2. I have yet to see any clear film coatings on the Owens Corning foam here ... neither on the 1" or the 2" thick stuff.

Is your foam Owens Corning ?

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

TJ,

Yes, it is Owens Corning. There is a difference between the pink and the purple: the purple seems to be more pleasing to EPA-type organizations and the pink (the better of the two for modelling) seems to be getting phased out. We'll see if it works out or not! Tim, you're right about the proximity issue. What you see is a first, rough cut that needs to be trimmed and sanded. I just try to include every step so someone coming behind me can see what I was up to and how it got there. Ed, what can I say? It will either work or it won't! *L*


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> TJ,
> 
> Yes, it is Owens Corning. There is a difference between the pink and the purple: the purple seems to be more pleasing to EPA-type organizations and the pink (the better of the two for modelling) seems to be getting phased out. We'll see if it works out or not! Tim, you're right about the proximity issue. What you see is a first, rough cut that needs to be trimmed and sanded. I just try to include every step so someone coming behind me can see what I was up to and how it got there. Ed, what can I say? It will either work or it won't! *L*



Did you mean T? Ed's been sitting ,quietly observing.


----------



## tjcruiser

Re: pink-stuff foam ...



Reckers said:


> Yes, it is Owens Corning. There is a difference between the pink and the purple: the purple seems to be more pleasing to EPA-type organizations and the pink (the better of the two for modelling) seems to be getting phased out.


Interesting ... I recall some months back somebody (you?) here on the forum saying that the pink-to-purple change had already taken place out west (California?). Well, it's gone all the way east, with my local Home Depot only carrying the purple stuff.

I will add that I recently built a few model sailboats for some local kids using some newer purple stuff foam. As far as I can see, it carved about the same as the older pink stuff. No perceivable difference on my end. (I didn't try painting any of it, though.)

Oh ... and Ed ... you may have been sitting there quitely, but you were likely THINKING something. Be forewarned ... Reckers can now READ YOUR MIND!

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Actually, TJ, the sequence was this: some months back, I read a post on another thread where someone in Canada (that big, empty place just past Montana) said the pink was no longer available there, and that the change was due to environmental issues. Recently, someone in CA posted he could not get the pink there, so I guess the Dow Corning factories are gradually changing over as supply contracts expire. As for reading Ed's mind, I tried that once...I kept getting something about a hard roll?????


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Actually, TJ, the sequence was this: some months back, I read a post on another thread where someone in Canada (that big, empty place just past Montana) said the pink was no longer available there, and that the change was due to environmental issues. Recently, someone in CA posted he could not get the pink there, so I guess the Dow Corning factories are gradually changing over as supply contracts expire. As for reading Ed's mind, I tried that once...I kept getting something about a hard roll?????



You read my mind and you get a fried egg on a hard roll.:laugh:

TJ I was thinking something about the layout but I figured I would keep my thoughts to myself.


----------



## Reckers

Ed, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. 

Incidentally, when the brown paint dried, the plastic sheet flattened out again and everything came out fine. I liked all the hills and contours, but it was flat when I started, so returning to flat is no worse. Paint clings to the plastic well, too. the next step for that area will be to use caulking to taper in the bank around the pond, then paint the caulking to match the ground around it. After that, it's on to working more foam to complete the mountain range.


----------



## Komodo

the layouts coming along now!


Reckers said:


>


Do i see a passanger car in the background?


----------



## Reckers

As a matter of fact, you do! That's an aluminum observation car. It goes at the end of a passenger train:


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> As a matter of fact, you do! That's an aluminum observation car. It goes at the end of a passenger train:



Does it light up?


----------



## tjcruiser

It IS lit up, no ???

Reck, that one of the ones you restored some months ago, right? Looks beautiful!

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> It IS lit up, no ???
> 
> Reck, that one of the ones you restored some months ago, right? Looks beautiful!
> 
> TJ



I agree!:thumbsup:
For S gauge.


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## Reckers

Correct---it's the only one I've restored completely, so far. Moving and then constructing the layout took precedence over completing the job. The others are still wrapped in soft cloth in a box, to be worked on this winter. And yes, she lights up like a golden lamp!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Correct---it's the only one I've restored completely, so far. Moving and then constructing the layout took precedence over completing the job. The others are still wrapped in soft cloth in a box, to be worked on this winter. And yes, she lights up like a golden lamp!


Will you pick up that piece of history laying on it's side all ready?!

What a way to treat your kids!


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## Reckers

It's already up, Ed! That's an old pic you're looking at!


----------



## Reckers

A minor setback..

I'm sort of finishing off the mountain range and preparing to build something that will elevate and support the section of track that will rise, curving, to the top of the ridge. I went out and bought some small lumber this morning, planning to use it as supports. However, it seemed a good time to solder the entire, curving length of track together to add rigidity. First attempt was with a soldering gun, but it wasn't able to create the heat necessary. No problem: I've had a beautiful little precision jeweler's oxyacetylene torch for years. The word "years" is significant, here. I fired up the torch, not knowing the gas lines had deteriorated, and was greeted with a loud "pop!" as the acetylene line blew out just below the handset znd burst into flame.
Not wanting to be the only ball in play, it quickly burned most of the way through the oxygen line, leaving me with something not unlike an unruly pet flamethrower on a short leash. As I pondered the situation, the fact that my hand was on fire seemed significant. Closing the valves on the tanks seemed a good first step, along with madly waving the handset to try to put out the flames that were bathing my hand at the time. Anyway, all that unplanned work threw me behind and it was a while before I could dig out my heavy soldering pen and get about half of the curve soldered before stopping to swap the laundry out. All in all, there's a lot more to building a layout than I originally envisioned!


----------



## Reckers

*LOL* Actually, Burnie did stop in for a visit---I have an interesting line of blisters running down the edge of my little finger and just below. Nothing charred, though. Also, I seem to have lost a considerable part of the hair on my forearm. Not a bad tradeoff, on the whole, for being able to hold onto the torch with my right hand long enough to crank the valves closed on those tanks. I was sort of concerned about the acetylene tank going off, so I didn't want to put the torch down until it was out---you know, the whole carpet-burning leads to furniture burning and the tank just sitting there like a fat lil bomb. *L* It was sort of a "I guess I really better not drop this just yet!" kind of decision. I think it worked out pretty well, considering. Got a couple on my thumb, but these were the more interesting ones:


----------



## Komodo

ouchie! hope it heals well.


----------



## Big Ed

:appl:Most people have their holiday barbecues outside and cook a different brand of meat!:laugh:

Reckers (appropriately named) Quote, " Honey I am going to work on my layout now!"
Honey, "OK, dear please be careful!" 
Reckers, Well what can go wrong just working on my RR?":laugh:










Reckers and Honey looking at the layout.


Honey, " Dear, I told you to be careful."
Reckers, " Well I was thinking getting rid of my S gauge and building an O gauge layout anyway!:laugh:"
 












Reckers in a former life worked for the Rail Road building bridges.
Back in 1887 he helped on this one.


----------



## Reckers

*Rolling on the floor, laughing!!!* Ed, that is priceless! The funny part was that, when she got home, she saw my hand and said, "Honeyyyyy....I think this train thing is too much. You need to give it up."


----------



## Reckers

Komodo said:


> ouchie! hope it heals well.


Thank you, buddy----it'll heal just fine. Tomorrow I'll finish soldering that curve and see how far I can get toward completing that foam work on the far end. Once that part is done, I can start working on creating a smooth rise for the track. Blisters are just nature's way of reminding us our Mom told us not to play with matches!


----------



## Big Ed

In all seriousness I am glad it didn't turn out to be worst then it was.
It could have a big disaster!

Being burned is no laughing matter and being in a rehabilitation burn unit is no picnic either. 

It could have been a major fire!

I'm glad all turned out that you and the rest of us can joke about it.

Accidents happen in the blink of the eye.


----------



## tjcruiser

Jeez, Reck ... I'm just catching up and reading this, and nearly fell off my chair!

Holy <BLEEP> !!! That's some scary stuff! Yikes! I'm glad you're (generally) OK, but boy ... that was a close call. Oxygen. Acetylene. Open flame. Pressurized gas. KAABOOOOMMM! The GF would have been offering charred remnants of your beloved S collection on ebay. Soot-blackened locos ... with REAL soot!

Seriously, I'm very glad to hear you're OK, but what a scare. Take it easy, OK?

By the way, was that you I saw on the Fox News clip the other night running around the infield of the Savannah Sand Gnats baseball game?

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4314876/man-runs-around-on-fire-on-baseball-field/?playlist_id=87937

Earning a few extra bucks on the side?

Be safe, my friend ... be safe ...

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Timboy said:


> *Reckers:* I don't think you have any matches on any of the forums. LOL
> 
> -Timboy


Thank you, Tim. I attribute that to my matchless friends here at Model Train Forum!


----------



## Reckers

Gentlemen, I sincerely appreciate both your concern about my lil incident and the humor it generated---there's nothing like walking away from a plane crash to inspire pilot jokes! I loved the flaming man at the baseball stadium....I could picture myself running up the basement stairs like that, muttering "Dammit, why do people always knock at the door when you're busy?" *L* Tim, "This is new!" made me laugh...to be honest, I think my first reaction, when I saw my hand engulfed in flames, was something like "Aw, mannn....it's gonna take me forever to finish this soldering!" Thankfully, a lot of it was gas burning in the air as opposed to flammable liquid on skin. I got a few blisters, a whole lot of carbon-blackening over my hand and forearm (from the burning gas lines, I suppose) and my forearm now appears to have been shaven. The carbon washed off, the blisters have stopped complaining, and it's another day. THANK GOD MY TRAINS ARE SAFE!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::laugh:


----------



## Reckers

Now....back to the layout. Some additional lessons learned (not nearly as flashy) were:

1. That my beloved yellow wood glue is useless for pink foam. Yeah, I should have thought that one through better, and giving it time to dry (it didn't) cost me some time. 2. I'm now using latex caulk for a glueing foam to foam. It's perfect for a layout that will one day have to come apart: grips nicely, but can be separated without damaging the surfaces.
3. Latex caulk, however, is a poor choice for hiding seams. It doesn't sand smooth: it peels away. So, it's role is as a glue and to fill in major vertical gaps. I've just finished spackling over the seams and I'll see how that works.

Pics: Latex caulk used as a seam cover. It fills nicely, but sort of comes off in sheets when it's sanded:


----------



## Reckers

I've also started to experiment with painting, so my pink is gradually taking on a faint sandstone of very pale yellow-beige. Incidentally, the paint does fine on the foam when it's a very light coat, but starts to pit the foam when it's sprayed more heavily. I think I'm going to have to brush-paint and then touch up crevices with the spray can. Anyway, the spackling is drying and I've completed the initial construction on the north end of my north-south ridge. I've also finished soldering the arc of track that will rise to the top of the ridge: it's in the foreground.


----------



## Reckers

Once all those cans and bottles stop acting as weight for the drying glue, I can start work on getting that arc of track elevated. It will run from just beyond the switch in the above pic around the far end of the table, climbing, then return across the top of the ridge. Below it, another line will exit from the tunnel, and a spur terminates to the right of that. Eventually, all those black right-of-way zones will be covered.

An earlier pic shows the tunnel opening better:










Once it dries, I can sand the spackling. If that looks good, I can move on to brush-painting the foam ridge and creating some wooden structures to elevate the track.


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

Very glad that you're back into it, relatively unscathed. Good news.

Hey, you might not want to give up on using latex caulk just yet. The key to using it is to work in small sections and always smooth it out to the shape you want while it is still wet and pliable. I use caulk a lot around the house, and always have a small container of very warm water, a small rag (like an old sock), and -- most importantly -- an ever-wet finger. I.e., lay down the caulk, then proceed to dip your finger in the warm water, then run your finger along your bead, smoothing things out, and likely removing 50% or more of what you just put down. Go over the bead a couple of time if needs, always wiping your finger clean then dipping again in warm water with each pass. I think with some care, you'll find that caulk will work well along the "tucked in" seams between your layer of sedimentary "rock" / foam.

If you're trying to fill a butt joint between horizontal surfaces, a putty knife can work well to remove the still-wet excess, then wipe things clean and smooth with a wet rag.

Once dry, though, the caulk is near impossible to smooth / sand, as you found.

Anyway ... something to think about as you push ahead.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

TJ,

Thanks for the suggestion. Right now, I still like it for a filler for vertical gaps between sections of foam sheeting, and I'm definitely going to use it for re-filling the horizontal seams in the plywood that form the tabletop. As I expected, the change in shape and environment made them break open the original seams---lack of humidity and going from vertical sheets in the store to horizontal ones on the table. I plan to use it for that and sealing around the lake, for sure. I've already used it to seal in the pond. The spackling is going to be essential on the last of the seams in the rock layers, though: the only way to get left side and right side matches in erosion is to sand the seam.

Speaking of which: "...and on the 84th (more or less!) day, God said, "I'm gonna give Reck a break: let there start being some semblance of sandstone!" And Reck said, "Dang!"


----------



## Reckers

...and then He felt so sorry for Reck and his lil burnt pinkie, He decided to improve the looks of the mountain range by overspraying with some gritty, textured paint....



















and added some lichens by lightly overspraying with green spraypaint...


----------



## Big Ed

Why must you solder the track anyway?
Doesn't it stay together? 
Is there no other way to keep them tight?
Like maybe track clips.
After you solder them are you going to hit them with paint?

Are you going to solder the whole layout?

Boy am I glad that soon I won't have to keep looking at all that pink.:laugh:
Looking good!:thumbsup:

How about the spray foam stuff, to fill in the seams? You can smooth it out before it drys and it will get into the voids too?
I never worked with foam yet so I don't know how it would react with the spray foam stuff.

Now back to quietly observing........


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

Wow ... the textured paint is beginning to do its magic, and the layers of "sedimentary" rock are blending together quite nicely. Looks very nice. A good day for you ... and The Man above!

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Thanks, TJ! It looks even better in person---I can't wait till the track is all laid so I can start landscaping, up there.

Ed, I soldered that section for two reasons: conductivity and solidity. As the train comes down that slope, it's going to want to drive the connections apart even if the track is pretty well attached to the supports. That will play havoc with the delivery of power, too, and I don't want unsightly wires dangling. Since it's silver-colored solder on nickel-silver track, the color transition will be negligible---no plans to paint it. Once it gets to the top, I'm back to just pins, again. Clips are an option, but they're relatively expensive and don't conduct any power. Soldering will make the descent section a lot more solid. 
I don't plan to do the whole layout as one long soldered block, but I do plan to solder it into major sections I can remove as needed. I think it will help reduce derailures. I was getting tired of that pink, too, so it was a thrill to start hitting it with paint!

As for the foam stuff, it's too uncontrollable to be used as a crack filler: it's great stuff, but mushrooms out all over the place. The best I've come up with, so far, is TJ's latex caulk to fill the cracks most of the way because it grabs like glue, then top it off with spackling and sand it. The spackling sands down fast and smooth, so it matches the texture around it.


----------



## Reckers

Tim, thank you for your kind words. I tend to think of it more as stumbling through it than a pattern. *L* 
Because my girlfriend works alternating weekends, I have a cycle of one weekend with her, one with the train layout. It's a slower pace, but gives me time to think about what needs to come next. This week, I'll pick up some more spray paint and do a little touch-up (ran out of green for the lichens on my mountain!); I'll do some brief sanding to smooth out the last of my spackling before painting the far end on my Train Weekend.


----------



## Reckers

A note on paint and extruded pink foam....

I think everyone understands that latex paint is safe for the pink foam, while oil-based paints aren't and can leave you with a gooey puddle where you once had a proud foam edifice.

BUT!!!!!!! oil based SPRAY PAINT has it's uses. If you want your smooth foam surface to be pitted, a light coat of spray paint will provide the desired acne in your surface. Start with a very light coat and stop---give it time to digest the foam. Testing on a piece of scrap would be a good idea. Second....I've been using what I call over-spray with good results. That means holding the spray can so it will spray horizontally into the air 2 to 3 feet above the foam and let it fall to the foam, or spraying very, very lightly from about 3 to 4 feet away and stopping. The paint seems to land on the foam with it's solvent-base partially evaporated: it clings but doesn't eat the foam.


----------



## Reckers

A little early Sunday-morning work: the seam at the north end of my mountain range has dried (Spackling) and been sanded. Base coat applied: this is just a pale-beige latex from Home Depot, nothing special. I went with a very pale color because it would make the vegetation and other detailing stand out better, later. Nothing dulls dark colors (greens and browns) like a dark background. The vegetation will also break up those horizontal planes and too-uniform slopes.










Also...I wanted to use old coffee grounds for talus, the collection of crumbled rock and debris that accumulates at the base of cliffs and on their ledges. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a color change by drying the grounds and soaking them in 100% chlorine bleach. However, I did realize they'd be good (I hope!) for terrain changes that break up the monotony of flatland. Hence, Coffee Hill Farm:










This is two pots' worth of microwave-dried coffee grounds. I want to avoid mold, so I nuked the hell out of these fellows. I'll come back to do a glue-spray later today to seal them to the table-top.


----------



## Big Ed

Maybe it's just the picture?
Did you check the clearance around the tunnel by running your biggest train through it. 
You got a crane car? They are kind of high.
The sides look kind of close. Whats the height clearance?



It could just be the picture?


----------



## Reckers

Ed, I'm not gonna claim to be mistake-proof: I've got some fingers that are still peeling from the torch to remind me of that. *L* However, this is what I did to protect me from me. You remember I painted that broad, useless black stripe everywhere the track was due to go? That 'right of way' was to ensure I had excess width to work with on both sides, and I kept the pink walls away from it. As for the roof, I laid my track inside the canyon that was gonna be roofed-over to become a tunnel. Then I parked a locomotive on top of it, measured the height (roughly 3 3/8"), and added more height for cars I don't have yet and lifting derailed cars back on. I also measured my tallest cars and found nothing appreciably higher, including the 944 crane (if it's boom is horizontal). Inside the tunnel, I'm close to 4 1/2" and almost 5 1/2" on the outside. The overhanging ledge makes it look low, an optical illusion. The sheer walls and the curved entry make the tunnel look like a tight fit. Right now, the touchup paint is drying and it's looking less like a stack of big yellow boards.



















Seems a little undergrowth has taken root, too. *L*


----------



## Reckers

The lanscaping contractor called...he made the initial delivery of undergrowth below the future trestle and spread some grass seed and fertilizer while he was here...


----------



## Reckers

I know, Anton: I'VE GOTTA START USING THAT TRIPOD!!!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> I know, Anton: I'VE GOTTA START USING THAT TRIPOD!!!


Put the date stamp back on too. So Anton can tell when, where, how, to the second you took it. With what camera, what the weather was, what you where eating when you took it, the color of your camera, where your dog was, and if you had clean underwear on.:laugh:
And if the "kids" were gone and your "honey" was down "helping" you.

He won't tell me how he knows all that from a time stamp. (fourth or fifth request now)

Those pictures give the tunnel a better look on the clearance. Plus I was placing my O on your track forgetting that the S were smaller. It looked kind of a tight fit.
I didn't want you to get too far a long then find out you had to blast the tunnel bigger.

The mold looks good oozing out of the hill.:thumbsup:

Now you got to hook the track up so you can get some run time as you work on it.

Question... in the one picture it looked like a loop was going to run behind the hill, but you put the hill on the road? 
Are you putting a loop back there or did you have a change of plans?

This picture behind the brush,


----------



## Reckers

Ed, that was just me juggling sections of track to free up space for painting. The one loop will go through the tunnel; the other is going to climb that sheet-foam slope on a curve and come back down the top of the ridge. As always, I appreciate any critique as it might save me a lot of rework: blasting the tunnel again, as you put it!


----------



## Reckers

A little word, here, about scenery. The stuff I'm working with right now consists of adhesives and artificial scenery. The latter is all standard stuff, Woodland Scenic is the brand name, and I'm using two shades and a range of textures. There's a very fine texture that they claim is weeds; it's what my grassy areas are. The low undergrowth is their fine clump and the bushes are the medium clump. I'll have some trees in later.

As far as adhesives, I'm using two kinds for the scenery. There's a craft spray that is made by Elmers ( I think)---I'll try to remember to post a pic of it. It's great stuff, so far. My process for bushes and such is to spray the area with adhesive, park the stuff where I want it, and spray again to glue it into place and hold it. For the "lawn", I spray the pink foam dark green, then sprinkle the fine ground cover stuff over the wet paint, then come back and spray adhesive on top of that to nail it to the floor. This is probably not the right way to do it, but it seems to work. Besides, I never claimed to know what I was doing. Second adhesive is the standard 1 part white glue plus 3 parts water with a couple of drops of liquid soap added. The soap is supposed to break the surface tension on the liquid and let it soak in. This is your standard ballast glue. It works well for the coffee grounds if you can find a spray bottle that mists instead of spraying---otherwise, it's a PITA. I think it's going to be reserved for the coffee grounds now and ballast, later.

The lawn guys showed up a second time and worked till they ran out of grass seed. A "before" pic:










Some "afters":


----------



## Reckers

Timboy said:


> *Reckers:* Okay, now you have my curiosity piqued. I am very interested to see how this all works out! Take your time. No rush. When you have it done, you have it done. Thanks for keeping us updated!
> Regards,
> Timboy


Tim, thanks for the encouragement. I tend to do a cyclic thing and work on the layout every other Sunday plus holidays. That means I get plenty of mull-it-over time in between, with an occasional dab of work mid-week. So far, I'm pretty pleased with how it's going. I want to scratch-build most of the structures I'm going to put on it, so it's gonna lack buildings until I'm ready to tackle that part. I'm 58, so I figure there's no rush: I have about 30 years or so to get it done. *L*


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

What kind of spray bottle are you using for the white glue / water mix? When I worked on my HO layout, I used glue/water mix, and tried to spray it with an old Windex bottle, and then another spray bottle that I bought at Home Depot. In both cases, the mix coagulated a bit in the spray nozzle, and the "spray" results were far from what I wanted. Granted, I was using a 50/50 glue/water mix, so perhaps too thick. But I've read here that many people spray their glue/water, and I'm wondering if there's some magic trick and/or type of bottle to avoid the coagulation.

Layout's looking quite nice on your end. Fun stuff to see the scenery taking shape.

Thanks,

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Reck,
> 
> What kind of spray bottle are you using for the white glue / water mix? When I worked on my HO layout, I used glue/water mix, and tried to spray it with an old Windex bottle, and then another spray bottle that I bought at Home Depot. In both cases, the mix coagulated a bit in the spray nozzle, and the "spray" results were far from what I wanted. Granted, I was using a 50/50 glue/water mix, so perhaps too thick. But I've read here that many people spray their glue/water, and I'm wondering if there's some magic trick and/or type of bottle to avoid the coagulation.
> 
> Layout's looking quite nice on your end. Fun stuff to see the scenery taking shape.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> TJ


I had the same problem. 
I tried different bottles too.
I went to painting mine on and an eye dropper helps with ballast.

I see them for sale,
Just a spray head that screws into scenic cement bottles.

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/item/S192


----------



## Reckers

TJ and Ed,

I bought a 99 cent Home depot bottle and also tried a windex bottle and sprayer. Neither seems to mist. I then tried another bottle I had laying around that misted water but not the glue----I'm mystified over that. *L*
The jury is still out on the coffee grounds, as they aren't glueing well. I think my next attempt will be to soak them into a cowpie of grounds and diluted glue, then plop it onto the layout and iron it out with a water-glass to control the thickness and smooth out the top. I want the terrain to be less flat and even, so finding a way to create some gentle rises would be nice.


----------



## tankist

very nice! it looks like you got some nice stuff going there reck.

i also tried couple of spray bottles, windex and the WS one. but the best (and the ceapest) was from michaels floral section. it can spray very fine mist. with that i don't spray glue mix, i only spray wet water and then apply the glue with eye dropper.


----------



## Reckers

Thanks, Anton! I'll try getting one of theirs and see how it does. All the foam work made this project seem to drag on forever, but the landscaping is fun: instant gratification!


----------



## tjcruiser

tankist said:


> i also tried couple of spray bottles, windex and the WS one. but the best (and the ceapest) was from michaels floral section.


Gents,

Thanks for the comments/discussion about spray bottles. Mine stumped me when it came to a water/glue mix.

Anton ... glad to hear your Michael's bottle tip ... will keep it in mind.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Tim, that's good advice---I'll give'r a try. I had been reluctant to overwet the grounds because of the potential for mold, but they're so acidic it's probably not a realistic concern. I like to keep small projects like that going at one end of the table while doing major work at the opposite end. That way, when paint or glue have to have time to dry on the major work, I can stroll down to the other end and putter with the experimental stuff. It's nice to share suggestions with someone who's doing similar work, so thank you, too!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Tim, that's good advice---I'll give'r a try. I had been reluctant to overwet the grounds because of the potential for mold, but they're so acidic it's probably not a realistic concern. I like to keep small projects like that going at one end of the table while doing major work at the opposite end. That way, when paint or glue have to have time to dry on the major work, I can stroll down to the other end and putter with the experimental stuff. It's nice to share suggestions with someone who's doing similar work, so thank you, too!


Another way to do it is to go out and BUY some ground cover in a bag at your hobby store.

So... no one knows if the scenic sprayer is a special nozzle to spray the glue water mixture? 
The scenic mixture is a lot thinner then what I make up with the Elmer's and water. 
I personally don't like their mixture. 
And don't like how much they charge for it. 
I like my Elmer's and water mixture better.:thumbsup:

I have tried a variety of sprayers and they all work good for a while then they start dribbling. When they do I go to the sink and clean them out with hot water and then they are good for a while.
The best one I found was from the old "young" ladies fabric softener bottle she sprays on the clothes.

Eye droppers come in handy too. I got 20 of them on e bay for around $6.00.:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

It's oddly comforting to learn that I'm NOT the only guy here on the forum that has a premature dribble problem ... ahh ... err ... with that glue stuff, I mean!

I have to say to all of you that it's rather refreshing that we can all put our macho image aside for a few moments and gather here to openly discuss those embarrasing and personal problems that we men all face on occasion. 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Speak for yourself, TJ---I don't have to face things like that. My spare tire ensured long ago I'd never again face anything below the equator!

As for the glue issue---here's my problem. I need to cover acreage, rather than spots. Ed, I use the Woodland Scenics outta-the-bag stuff for ground cover, but it's no better than the coffee grounds for what goes beneath the ground cover. Here's an example: I have an area that is going to be a small farm, about 1' x 2' in real (1:1 scale) inches. I want that area to be slightly higher than the railroad beds that enclose it, and to have a higher area at one end. The idea is to terraform with coffee grounds to my liking, then cover it with the green ground cover. What I've found is the spray can and spray-botle adhesives only coat the surface. It's too much area to try to pipette and the spray bottles don't seem to penetrate. I think the solution is going to be to wash the grounds in a glue-and-water bath, wring them out and hand-mold them into the contours I like and let the glue set up. I'll try that and let you guys know how it works.


----------



## Reckers

Thank you, Tim. I like to think that, despite my best efforts, some of my ideas still work!


----------



## Big Ed

I don't know about coffee grounds, but if you need to cover a lot of acreage it's best to paint it on and then sprinkle it through a shaker bottle. But do it in light coats and let it dry real good in between. 
AND DON'T TOUCH IT WHILE IT'S DRYING.
Then put another light coat on and let that dry.
Continue till you have the desired coverage.

Look around you have all kinds of shaker bottles from your house.
All you got to do is empty them of whatever is in them.
I got a box full of all different kinds, with an assortment of different sized holes.

But I never worked with coffee grounds.
Better watch out that you don't get an infestation of coffee bugs on your layout.:laugh:


----------



## Komodo

Reckers said:


> A little word, here, about scenery. The stuff I'm working with right now consists of adhesives and artificial scenery. The latter is all standard stuff, Woodland Scenic is the brand name, and I'm using two shades and a range of textures. There's a very fine texture that they claim is weeds; it's what my grassy areas are. The low undergrowth is their fine clump and the bushes are the medium clump. I'll have some trees in later.
> 
> As far as adhesives, I'm using two kinds for the scenery. There's a craft spray that is made by Elmers ( I think)---I'll try to remember to post a pic of it. It's great stuff, so far. My process for bushes and such is to spray the area with adhesive, park the stuff where I want it, and spray again to glue it into place and hold it. For the "lawn", I spray the pink foam dark green, then sprinkle the fine ground cover stuff over the wet paint, then come back and spray adhesive on top of that to nail it to the floor. This is probably not the right way to do it, but it seems to work. Besides, I never claimed to know what I was doing. Second adhesive is the standard 1 part white glue plus 3 parts water with a couple of drops of liquid soap added. The soap is supposed to break the surface tension on the liquid and let it soak in. This is your standard ballast glue. It works well for the coffee grounds if you can find a spray bottle that mists instead of spraying---otherwise, it's a PITA. I think it's going to be reserved for the coffee grounds now and ballast, later.
> 
> The lawn guys showed up a second time and worked till they ran out of grass seed. A "before" pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some "afters":



wow, your layout is really starting to take shape!


----------



## Reckers

Thanks, K-man! Seems like it took forever to get this far!


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck, Timboy, Ed, etc.

Good dialog about ground-cover application / glue methods. Keep the ideas, methods, "been there, done that, worked or didn't work" info coming. Stuff like this is a great resource for other people tackling these issues down the road.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Thank you, gentlemen, and Tim, best wishes on Basket Mountain! Right now, I'm collecting coffee grounds to the dismay of my girlfriend. Each evening, I dump the grounds from that morning's coffee into a cereal bowl and repeatedly nuke it in the microwave while fixing dinner. Nuke, stir, let the steam dissapate...nuke, stir, let the steam dissapate. I'm using 3 minutes on the first blast, followed by repeated one-minute nukings with cooling in-between. If you wonder why all the detail, here's the reason.

1. Dump a mound of fresh coffee grounds onto a pie plate, but make no effort to flatten or disperse it.
2. Nuke it for 5 minutes.
3. Spend the next 10 minutes cleaning coffee grounds off every square inch of the microwave oven's interior.

Steam buildup inside the pile leads to an eruption!


So....here's the plan, once I have enough grounds to terraform one clearly-defined section. I'm going to mix water and white glue in a solution---probably 50/50. Despite all the good advice from those wiser and more experienced, I plan to squeeze it out and then dump it onto the table and push, prod, and roll it into the desired contours. My experience with the dry and dampened grounds is that it rolls very well with a water-glass---nice smooth surface. After that, a fan blowing on it and a week of a dehimidifier running in the basement. Once I'm sure it's dry, I'll do the usual adhesive spray and green groundcover to turn the entire acre into a meadow of sorts, suitable for later development by adding structures.
One part that is important to me on this thread is to document the mistakes I make. The coffee grounds show a lot of promise as terraforming material---texture is great and you can't beat the price. They mold to contours well and slight breezes don't send them flying. I've found you cannot bleach them, but the color is ideal for topsoil. So, even if this doesn't work for me, it's good data. Another person could read my description and say, "Yeah, but if he'd only tried this...." and go on to make it successful. So, I'm either gonna really screw it up and throw out a lot of used coffee grounds, or I'll find a way to make them into a very good modelling material. Thank you all for your encouragement!


----------



## tjcruiser

Reckers said:


> 3. Spend the next 10 minutes cleaning coffee grounds off every square inch of the microwave oven's interior.
> 
> Steam buildup inside the pile leads to an eruption!


 Dohh! Smells nice, though, I'll bet.

I like your coffee ground cover plan. Seems logical, as long as everything dries out OK. Thanks for the detailed descriptions ... on both the good and the bad learning steps!

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Thank you, gentlemen, and Tim, best wishes on Basket Mountain! Right now, I'm collecting coffee grounds to the dismay of my girlfriend. Each evening, I dump the grounds from that morning's coffee into a cereal bowl and repeatedly nuke it in the microwave while fixing dinner. Nuke, stir, let the steam dissapate...nuke, stir, let the steam dissapate. I'm using 3 minutes on the first blast, followed by repeated one-minute nukings with cooling in-between. If you wonder why all the detail, here's the reason.
> 
> 1. Dump a mound of fresh coffee grounds onto a pie plate, but make no effort to flatten or disperse it.
> 2. Nuke it for 5 minutes.
> 3. Spend the next 10 minutes cleaning coffee grounds off every square inch of the microwave oven's interior.
> 
> Steam buildup inside the pile leads to an eruption!
> 
> 
> So....here's the plan, once I have enough grounds to terraform one clearly-defined section. I'm going to mix water and white glue in a solution---probably 50/50. Despite all the good advice from those wiser and more experienced, I plan to squeeze it out and then dump it onto the table and push, prod, and roll it into the desired contours. My experience with the dry and dampened grounds is that it rolls very well with a water-glass---nice smooth surface. After that, a fan blowing on it and a week of a dehimidifier running in the basement. Once I'm sure it's dry, I'll do the usual adhesive spray and green groundcover to turn the entire acre into a meadow of sorts, suitable for later development by adding structures.
> One part that is important to me on this thread is to document the mistakes I make. The coffee grounds show a lot of promise as terraforming material---texture is great and you can't beat the price. They mold to contours well and slight breezes don't send them flying. I've found you cannot bleach them, but the color is ideal for topsoil. So, even if this doesn't work for me, it's good data. Another person could read my description and say, "Yeah, but if he'd only tried this...." and go on to make it successful. So, I'm either gonna really screw it up and throw out a lot of used coffee grounds, or I'll find a way to make them into a very good modelling material. Thank you all for your encouragement!



Why don't you cover them with a paper towel?

Reckers ground cover,
coffee grounds.....free:thumbsup:

Cost for electric to nuke them $31 67.
Cost for cleaning the microwave each time $3.55.
Cost for a "pie plate"? $5.46 ( I hope it's not aluminum!)
Cost for a new microwave because the old one burned up from nukeing so many coffee grounds.....depends on the model.
Cost for mouse traps, for all the caffeine high mice that are going to party on the coffee on the layout. Depends on which type he gets.( I got an electronic mouse trap that zaps them dead.:thumbsup: $50 bucks.) Anyone have a mouse problem I recommend it!:thumbsup:

Cost for toxic mold removal....big bucks.:laugh:


----------



## Reckers

Yeah, it's a loss on one layout. But I'll make it up on volume!!!!


----------



## Stillakid

*Coffee....*

Len, while this may be a bit more expensive, there are several, "Instant Coffee" products that have a coarse grind, and would work well coming out of a shaker. Just a thought!


----------



## Reckers

Jim, welcome back! That's a good suggestion---but I realized this morning that I was taking the wrong approach to the problem. I don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier: for landscaping, any dolt would understand I needed organically-grown coffee! I found some great stuff at the whole-foods store for only $55.75 a pound....

Okay, seriously. *L* The shaker-friendly grind is good for ground cover---no argument there. At this point, however, I'm trying to create landscape contours. For example, on my recent train ride, I noticed the railroad right-of-way had gradually compacted to where it had dropped below the level of the sorrounding farmland. The net effect was that of a sunken road: I'm sure you see those all over Virginia. What I need to do to create that effect is to bring an entire "farm" up off the flat table 1/4" to 1/2" and leave the tracks at table-top height. This also allows me to emphasize accoutrements: a farmhouse, for example, is normally sited on higher ground than the rest of the farm. I need a way to really complicate my life by engaging in pointless endeavors of this nature!


----------



## tjcruiser

Jim / Stillakid,

Said it in my 1681 thread, but just wanted to offer you again a big thumbs-up welcome back! Hope all is well!

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Timboy said:


> *Reck:* I don't know who is more of a glutton for punishment; you or me! LOL Ah well, what else do we have to do or spend our money on. At least you get a buzz from the coffee. Alls I get are burns on my fingers and toes from my hot glue gun. LOL
> Regards,
> Timboy


Tim, considering my fancy torch-work a few weeks back, I think I can match you blisters and even up the bet!


----------



## Reckers

Timboy said:


> *Reck:* :laugh: :thumbsup:     hwell:


Man, you change moods faster than my girlfriend! What are you, quadripolar?:laugh:


----------



## Reckers

In that I've seen your pic...I can assure you it is. *L*


----------



## T-Man

*Still Building an S Scale Layout*

I ran downtown and filmed this for you. Vertually uncut!
For inspiration!








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqZb26TY_xU


----------



## tjcruiser

T-Man,

FABULOUS!!!

Reck's gonna flip when he sees this. What fun! Great scenery ... very realistic track ties, nice wood trestle bridge, hikers on the rocks ... the more you look, the more you see!

Should we ALL get a band to play live old-time music when we work on our trains?!?

I especially like the text nudge to Reck at the end ... Gotta get movin' on the layout, Reck ... gotta get moving!

Very well done, T-Man ... very well done!

TJ


----------



## T-Man

TJ, 
They will be in Wilmington in November. It was taken at the VFW Hall. Just enough people to make it interesting. The band was a bonus. It was near lunchtime and the sausage cart was outside, so I think they were passing through. The trumpet player has a Lionel Set.I even got everthing in focus.


----------



## Stillakid

*T-Man, Great Video!!*

Reckers, it appears that the, "Gauntlet" has been thrown down:laugh:

What, Say, You?

Some pics of about 70% of what I'll be using for my layout. The Prewar AF & Lionel aren't in the pics, and will also be incorporated in the "L"

I just picked up another set with a 282 Pacific & Tender, with 4 cars. There was also a handcar included. What I really want, is a Hudson and/or a Northern

Also, yesterday was my birthday and my wife bought me the airbrush set I've wanted since forever!!

View attachment 4400


View attachment 4401


View attachment 4402


View attachment 4403


View attachment 4404


View attachment 4405


View attachment 4406


View attachment 4407


View attachment 4408


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## Reckers

T-Man, I'm speechless!!! Thanks so much for the video and the encouragement at the end! *L* It's progressing, but slowly: yesterday, I bought a piece of sheet plastic to start building a jig for trestles. This coming weekend, I hope to have the lower oval connected, glued in place and enough wiring run to get it going: I still need to complete the southern end of my ridge, but I can prop that end up, for now, and then try to muddle my way through building a curved trestle that simultaneously gets taller as it lifts the tracks up the slope...and gets shorter as the trestle legs rise up the hillside. *L* I'm beginning to suspect that I love pain! Thanks so much for the encouragement!


----------



## Reckers

Jim,

That airbrush is awesome! You're really accumulating a collection, too! That last car pic, though....all those sad lil children, begging for paint....*L* Get to work, man!


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## tjcruiser

Reck -- Curved / sloped trestle sounds wonderful. Looking forward to the fun!

Jim -- Pics of the "L to be" are fabulous. You should really consider starting a dedicated thread. Maybe post an inventory of your locos and rolling stock, buildings, etc.? Lots of great vintage stuff there, and it'd be a nice tool for anyone hunting for info on an item down the road.

Is that handtruck an AF? Powered? Way ... way ... WAY COOL!

And as far as the airbrush is concerned ... I'd like to say something, but there's too much drool dripping down my chin. Hubba, hubba, hubba ... I like! As you delve into it, post some tips. I'm rather intrigued, though I've never even held one, let along used one.

And ... most importantly ... HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JIM!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Reckers

Good point:HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JIM!!!!


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## Reckers

By the way, T-Man----that's more S scalers on one room than there are in some states!!!


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## T-Man

They have been coming for a few years now. I am amazed they drive about 3 hours to do this. It's not a big social hub, like Boston. I always make it a point to thank them for coming and setting up the display. I may copy the video for them , and present it at the Wilmington show. 

I always have a problem with pictures and moving trains so I decided to video it. I knew you would appreciate the subject matter.

BTW, Happy Birthday Jim! Good to see you here. You will be busy, those engines need a lot of work.

If you go the Rare Marx Thread post # 4. The engine flying in the back is the 300AC.


----------



## Stillakid

Thank You, All! Getting old, sure is a pain, but then again, it sure beats the alternative!

Bob, pretty soon, you'll be adding more to your "S" collection. You know you're hearing that little voice in the back of your head(no, it's not Reckers), saying, "Build, and they will come!"


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## Reckers

He's right, you know. My voice is the one suggesting you clear all that O gauge stuff and HO...stuff....off the table for the Queen to stretch out!


----------



## Reckers

By the way, T-Man...last night, I wandered to the basement for a few minutes, just to stain the wooden dowels that will go into my trestle-from-hell. Thought I'd add a couple of track clips and just get the basic loop connected, again...and take the pink pad and Goo-Gone to it, again...and wire the transformer back to the clip on the track...and then, clear all the tools and obstructions out of the way....and an hour or so into just staining those dowel for 5 minutes, I was watching my Pacific roaring around the basic loop, flying out of the tunnel like the Batmobile charging out of the Batcave!


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck's running a train ?!?!? 

"Egads! What sorcery is this? There was enough paralyzing gas in that cork to keep ordinary men unconscious for hours!" - The Joker


----------



## T-Man

At least you know the engine still runs.
Wilmington has a few isles of S. Those guys are like a bunch of Indians dancing around the campfire. I'll get my warpaint on ands search for parts for the second engine.


----------



## Stillakid

*Did you say "PARTS?"*

Bob, if you see the boiler to a 4pc, 302, and it's under $15, will you pick it up for me? I'll pay you for the part and shipping. I have a complete 4pc-302, but the boiler(after I stripped it) is showing bad metal fatigue and it's not worth trying to restore I think that the paint was all that was holding it together

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## Reckers

Strange as it may seem, I ran my Pacific around for most of an hour, fine-tuning the track connections and position relative to the rock walls---it's close, coming out of the tunnel! I'll run it a bit more tonight with a crane and a few other cars, then silicone-caulk segments into place for rigidity. I have to leave some of it removable to replace turnouts and so on. It's slowly coming together! Oh, and my girlfriend wanted to know how much longer I'd be drying and saving used coffee grounds. *L* She says she's already tired of looking at them in the kitchen. I gave her a straight-faced answer: "Oh....about 5 more pounds."


----------



## tjcruiser

Stillakid said:


> Bob, if you see the boiler to a 4pc, 302, and it's under $15, will you pick it up for me? I'll pay you for the part and shipping. I have a complete 4pc-302, but the boiler(after I stripped it) is showing bad metal fatigue and it's not worth trying to restore I think that the paint was all that was holding it together
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim


Jim,

Do either of these do it for you? I don't know tech details of the 302, so I'm not sure what constitutes "4 piece" ...

http://cgi.ebay.com/AMERICAN-FLYER-...236403?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2eb01dc433

http://cgi.ebay.com/AMERICAN-FLYER-...723471?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2c57b0284f

My treat if they work.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Stillakid

*4pc AF is......*

TJ, many of the AF Atlantic & Pacific Locomotives came as 1 piece(pastic or metal)
The 4 pc designation is for a, Boiler Assembly-Boiler Front-Cylinder & Steamchest and Pilot.
The 1st listing is of the Boiler on a 4 pc. As much as I'd appreciate your most generous offer, I'm concerned that without a real close inspection, it might not be any better than mine. 
Early American Flyer trains had issues with the casting process, and I might be wrong, but it's pretty much a "Crap Shoot" regarding years and models.

Reckers/Timboy, can you add to this?


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Strange as it may seem, I ran my Pacific around for most of an hour, fine-tuning the track connections and position relative to the rock walls---it's close, coming out of the tunnel! I'll run it a bit more tonight with a crane and a few other cars, then silicone-caulk segments into place for rigidity. I have to leave some of it removable to replace turnouts and so on. It's slowly coming together! Oh, and my girlfriend wanted to know how much longer I'd be drying and saving used coffee grounds. *L* She says she's already tired of looking at them in the kitchen. I gave her a straight-faced answer: "Oh....about 5 more pounds."



Didn't your honey ever hear about using dried tea leaves for scenery?:laugh:


----------



## tjcruiser

Stillakid said:


> TJ, many of the AF Atlantic & Pacific Locomotives came as 1 piece(pastic or metal)
> The 4 pc designation is for a, Boiler Assembly-Boiler Front-Cylinder & Steamchest and Pilot.
> The 1st listing is of the Boiler on a 4 pc. As much as I'd appreciate your most generous offer, I'm concerned that without a real close inspection, it might not be any better than mine.
> Early American Flyer trains had issues with the casting process, and I might be wrong, but it's pretty much a "Crap Shoot" regarding years and models.
> 
> Reckers/Timboy, can you add to this?


Jim,

Re: 302 shell ... let me know if you find something suitable at any point. Sounds a bit tricky, with metal and plastic shells, and all of the different AF variants.

I'd be curious to see what Reck / Tim say ...

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## tjcruiser

Tim,

Wow!

Not to sidetrack from Reck's thread, but that basket-weave mountain construction sequence is a work of art. Really ... could be featured in an modern art gallery or similar. Please cut-paste some pics to your thread here on the forum.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Stillakid

*You're right!*

Timboy, I agree with you!

Not a "signiture piece", but hate to see these old beauties pieced out. I have 3 Atlantics(300AC-302AC & the 302), in pieces, and I want them restored for no other reason than because they can once again be functional "Runners."

Tomorrow morning, I'm going to work on the 302 and see if I can salvage the shell. Maybe some "FastSteel", sanding and a few coats of primer will stabilize her.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## Stillakid

*??????*

I'm so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Reckers

big ed said:


> Didn't your honey ever hear about using dried tea leaves for scenery?:laugh:


Ed, she regularly points out to me how tired she is of seeing plates of coffee-grounds in the kitchen. *L* I've been saving them for about a week now, and you'd be surprised how little of my "grounds" it covers!


----------



## Reckers

tjcruiser said:


> Jim,
> 
> Re: 302 shell ... let me know if you find something suitable at any point. Sounds a bit tricky, with metal and plastic shells, and all of the different AF variants.
> 
> I'd be curious to see what Reck / Tim say ...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


Unfortunately, I have little to offer other than generally agreeing with everyone. The 4-piece boiler is as Jim described---separate parts for boiler, steam chest, boiler front, and cowcatcher. I'd speculate that the main section, the boiler, would be the easiest to to resurrect because of the amount of smooth, non-detailed surface on it. Jim, it hurts my heart to see the old locomotives broken down into parts so the parts can be sold at exhorbitant prices; if you notice, about 50% of these locos on ebay are now auctioned without the tender. The loco gets auctioned for as much as the combo used to go for, then the tender shows up with a $50 starting price.

The 302 could probably be assembled using a plastic boiler, but as Jim says, that is not the point----saving these old treasures is the point. Not to denigrate HO or anyone's preference, but if the easy route or the cheap one was Jim's objective, he'd dump the AF altogether. Jim, I'll keep watching and sooner or later, a 302 will turn up. What parts do you need? I have the boiler front from an unknown, but I think it's got the Pennsylvania emblem on the center, suggesting a 312.

Finally---Jim---check this out. I believe it's a 312 in undercover, and should go a lot cheaper than they normally do. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200522697190&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## T-Man

I doubt I could find just a boiler. Since the interest is there I can look. Maybe a video to make you all drool. All I have is a 303 plastic shell, that came with the Marx box. 
I will let you know,that I have the honor of having the last thread in S Scale. TA DA!

Featuring my 307 built in 1954 to 1957. Complete with missing parts.


----------



## Stillakid

*Thanks!*

Bob, you're so darn right! 

I've spent the morning working on the 302 boiler. By the end of the day, I should be able to get some primer on it and see just how it holds up. I would really like to save this one.

As far as parts go, I have everything I need and more. What are you in need of?  I've picked up several "lots" and the stuff that's included that you don't see is amazing!

I'm putting together a small HO set for the wife to enjoy and bought some buildings for almost nothing

Here's what else was included. I thought, because of the description, it was just some childs toy:laugh:.............

View attachment 4435


View attachment 4436


View attachment 4437


----------



## T-Man

The N scale looks familiar. I picked up a set on the west coast and has three engines. I got one to run but haven't looked at them since. They are weird with the half frames but it works.


----------



## Reckers

T-Man said:


> I doubt I could find just a boiler. Since the interest is there I can look. Maybe a video to make you all drool. All I have is a 303 plastic shell, that came with the Marx box.
> *I will let you know,that I have the honor of having the last thread in S Scale. TA DA!*
> Featuring my 307 built in 1954 to 1957. Complete with missing parts.


I went back and looked....man, I wasn't even on the site back then! As far as I knew, American Flyer was...well, it was on the engine and probably was the train name, like Orange Blossom Special. *L* That 300 AC is sweet---I have one of those, now. See, you were already looking into making the switch to S scale back then!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Stillakid

Timboy said:


> *Jim:* I'd love to see a pic or two after you have your restoration(s) done!
> 
> I have a die-cast 302 and I swapped out the trucks for knuckles. I put _*vintage slider shoes on it ala 295*_. It runs great, but I think I'll put the linker trucks back on it and install diesel sliders with their shoe boxes on the linker trucks. I believe I'll be liquidating my knuckle cars sometime within the year on eBay. I want to go with all linkers. Why? It's the period of trains I want to run on my period scenic'd hi-rail layout. That will also cap the amount of stuff I'll collect because there just wasn't the variety of linkers issued that there was knuckles.
> 
> Regards,
> Timboy


 
Timboy, are these the, "slider shoes" , that you're using now? How do you modify the trucks? I need to see the diesel slider/shoe box conversion. Inquiring minds, NEED to know!

Regards,
Jim


----------



## Stillakid

*slider shoe pic*

forgot the pic!hwell:

View attachment 4440


----------



## Reckers

Second question...do they create drag? It looks as if they would.

I assume the stem that is attached in some way connects to the same wiring as the axle-feeds. Is this correct?

Thanks,


----------



## Stillakid

*Who's writing your stuff....................*

"Really?"


----------



## T-Man

The S scale set was one of my first, bought late seventies, Probably second or third. It may have been twenty bucks back then. My memory fades. I wasn't sure if you have ever seen that post. B&M had to of moved it because you started this column didn't you?


----------



## Reckers

I never saw it until yesterday, but it needed to be in the S scale section---good move on B&M's part. Man, that was a long way back---no wonder you know so much about this stuff.


----------



## T-Man

Stillakid said:


> forgot the pic!hwell:
> 
> View attachment 4440


I can't believe you guys are showing me this. I like the idea now I need some time to do it. Yeah right. Thanks for posting this.


----------



## Reckers

T-Man said:


> I can't believe you guys are showing me this. I like the idea now I need some time to do it. Yeah right. Thanks for posting this.


*LOL* The jury is still out on the idea, where I'm concerned. I agree it's going to provide extra conductivity; I'm not sure the improvement (over clean wheels and the copper springs) is enough to justify the extra weight and drag. I'll wait for Jim to convert his fleet and see what he says! Jim has lots of spare time!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## T-Man

My problem is that I don't have metal wheels. I need to light the red coach so I need isolated pickups.


----------



## tjcruiser

For us non-AF guys, can you clarify my poor-man's understanding of these recent posts?

It looks like AF locos get their power from the tender, rather than the loco wheels themselves. So Tim has implemented a diesel direct-shoe-to-track pickup on a truck for a steam tender, eliminating the friction-prone metal springs that picked up power from the tender axles.

Do I have that right ???

With the "Tim method", does it make a difference which way you place the tender down on the track? I.e., shoe to hot rail or ground rail ???

Slowly learning here, guys ... slowly learning ...

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Ahh ... got it (I think). So you AF guys are picking up both hot power AND ground through the separate trucks on the tender (one wheel set side for each). No power or ground transmitted through the loco itself.

Reck raises a good question, then, when comparing the shoe-method to the axle-spring method ... tradeoff of conductivity vs. friction. I'll stay tuned to see the verdict from you guys!

Thanks!

TJ


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## Stillakid

*The start......*

I may be able to work with this 302. So far, it's been stripped, wire brushed(soft copper), primed(x3), wire brushed between each coat and had 2 finish coats. There are still many areas that are "rough" but not so much that it bothers me.:laugh:

Color scheme is non-AF, but oh well!

Tomorrow, the guts and maybe even a test run!

View attachment 4465


View attachment 4466


View attachment 4467


View attachment 4468


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## tjcruiser

Jim,

The shell doesn't look bad at all from the photos. Rather nice, actually. Glad to see you've found some signs of life in there. Looking forward to the heart transplant!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Reckers

Looks great, Jim! Am I seeing evidence of an airbrush in your work?:thumbsup:


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## alxcrbie

Cool Project, cant wait to see it unfold!


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## Reckers

Back to the Man-Cave. Started out by carefully positioning the track, tugging it into place inside the black Right-Of_Way zones I painted in the beginning. I guess I use more paint on this project than I need to, but it helps me envision where things are going to go and how nature builds things in progressive layers. Anyway, once I had all the track for the basic oval in place, I ran a short consist around it a few times to make sure nothing would hang up or derail and fly off the table. I'm using a 110 watt AF 15B transformer, and at full speed, the Pacific and tender with two cars makes all the curves and turnouts---ready to go. I took some Silicone sealant and put small dabs under the inner edge of several ties. The idea here is to fight slippage: as you run, track tends to slip as the locomotive passes. If you glue it all down, you can't swap out bad turnouts or pull sections to add new turnouts and so on. By tacking it down where it enters and exits curves and the center of straight sections, my track won't get out of true over time. That's the premise, anyway: remember, I'm making this up as I go along. Weights (paint cans, etc.) straddle the rails to hold down the newly-glued sections. That's another point: weight is important. Track tends to not lay flat because of uneven surfaces, bent pins, and so on. It then flattens as the train hits it. Glue it without weight on top and you are ensuring it cannot flatten and will act as a ramp to launch your train into the air.

Stage two: while that is drying, it's time to look at Coffee Hill Farm. My girlfriend lost interest in the graveyard scene in favor of decorating the front yard for Halloween, so it's back to being a farm. I've been drying used coffee grounds for two weeks and saving them like a miser hordes his gold--time to see if it was worth the trouble.

Traditionally, a spray bottle is used to glue ballast with a mixture of water, white glue, and a drop or two of liquid soap "to break the surface tension". I thought I'd translate that last part, since no one ever seems to explain it. Water tends to bead up because the molecules cling together---it's what makes a siphon possible. If you let them sit on the surface holding hands and singing Kumbaya, it won't penetrate to the stuff below and you have loose mini-ballast all over the place. The soap keeps the molecules from clinging and allows the water to run down into the ballast. It works for Molotov Cocktails, too: the better recipes include it.

Okay, back to ingredients. The ballast spray won't work for this---I need to get some serious penetration. Possible ingredients are glue, water, alcohol, soap and, of course, used, dried coffee grounds. Tim, I considered the alcohol you suggested but eventually discarded it. I used to work in a research lab (college job) and alcohol is used to displace water in tissue. Seemed to me it would keep water out of the grounds and I want it to penetrate. By the time the alcohol evaporated, the glue would have dried.

Soap was the next discarded ingredient, as I would be physically churning the grounds like cookie dough. Breaking the surface tension was gonna happen, regardless. 

Water---I initially discarded it, too. I wanted something that would set up hard, and thinning the glue would just make weaker glue.

So...the recipe:

15 oz by weight of dried, used coffee grounds
2 bottles of Elmers Glue All, each at 7.625 oz.
8 fluid oz of water

Yeah, I said I left the water out. Turns out that when I stirred and churned the coffee and glue, it was too dry and needed the water. I used a mixing bowl and spatula and just stirred and churned until it was like a crumbly cookie dough. I prepped the layout surface with some spray-adhesive, then took it to the layout and upended the bowl on the table.

The idea, at this point, was to create a sort of rise at one end of the farm: the place a house would logically go on and to create some contour to the existing flatland. I left it high near the right of way so that the right of way would appear to have been leveled when the tracks were laid and settled over time. I pushed and mushed it by hand for a few minutes, then used a water-glass as a lawn-roller to smooth it out and add a downhill taper away from the track. I expect it to fissure as it dries, but can sprinkle some more grounds in the cracks and use the ballast-spray to seal the tops. After that, ground-cover will hide all my sins. You can't make it out in the pics, but there is about a 3/4 height differential between the area next to the rails and the opposite edges.


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## Big Ed

Originally you said, "Also...I wanted to use old coffee grounds for talus, the collection of crumbled rock and debris that accumulates at the base of cliffs and on their ledges."

I don't see any mountains where the grounds are?

In the last picture on the tracks there appears to be what looks like a bomb with a fuse, what is that?

Can't you use screws for the track and switches?
I use them in mine. 

In the picture with the bomb on the tracks,:laugh: the tracks appear to be real close to the edge? 
Just like mine.:thumbsup: (edit, I see that part is against the wall, huh?)

Coffee does have a nice earth tone color.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

You had me going there for a moment as you were tossing out, then ruling out possible ingredient items. I thought for sure you we're gonna settle on some Jack Daniel's into the mix! (But NOT Kentucy bourbon ... gotta save THAT for drinkin'!)

Nice to see the progress. I like the silicon/weight idea on the tracks. Stick's 'em down, but leaves options easily open.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Reckers

QUOTE=Timboy;39010]*Reckers:* Cookie dough? Did you mention cookie dough? LOL You're making prooooooogggggrrrrrreeeeeeessssssss! Me likey! You need a small figure to represent Juan Valdez! LOL Hey! Maybe your girlfriend could get a job as a Barista at Starbucks! Free PREMIUM coffee grounds, man! LOL :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Timboy[/QUOTE]

Tim, I've been musing over how to collect all the coffee grounds from work without being the laughing-stock of the place. *L* Maybe I could ask the local Starbucks to save me a day's worth?

Ed, you're right---that is nowhere near the mountains. The talus idea failed when I found I couldn't bleach the coffee grounds for that purpose. Not a big issue, though, as vegetation tends to take root in the divisions of rock layers, and I can use aquarium rock or canary grit for talus. The "bomb" is an old weight I acquired, heavy as hell and with a hook in the end to hang it. Probably came off a scale. The color and texture of the coffee grounds are perfect for plowed farmland or a garden, though. I checked and it's still damp, but setting up really fine. It's gonna look great when I cover it with grass. As for screws, I'll try to avoid using them. I have no problem with them, but I have about 1/2" of pink foam and then that strand board beneath it; foam won't hold a screw and I'm dubious about how well the strand board does, over time. Instead, I'll use the silicone to lock down the straight peices at either end of a stretch with turnouts so they can't go anywhere. That way, I don't have to unscrew them to substitute for one that is giving problems.

TJ, you're absolutely right: bourbon is used in the engineer, not the engineering. Whiskey is adequate for the latter role. *L* I wanted to run through all my potential ingredients and my thinking because if it goes bad, anyone who's interested can see what I was up to and what my reasoning was. It seems to be setting up nicely, though.


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## Big Ed

Duh me, I forgot about the foam board.


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## Reckers

It's piddling time now as things dry. I thought I'd show what I'm going to do for wiring the track, in the meantime. Near the transformer, I'll use the standard "clip it to the track" attachment to connect my transformer wires to the track rails. However, I am getting a little hesitation at the far end of my 12' x 5' oval, so there's some places where the power is not being carried as it should be. Over time, oxidation will only make it worse.

To combat this, I'm rigging a second line from the transformer to the far end, but I want flexibility. If I develop a second problem area in the tunnel, for example, I don't want to run a third set of wires from the tranny, and so on. (All basic stuff, but I'm including it for those who are new to MRR). In the pic below, I have the "heavy" black wire coming from the transformer to the black, plastic block. If you look closely, you'll see there are 8 screws in each of two rows. I've taken some single-strand wire and linked screws 1,2,3,4, and then attached one transformer wire to them. Screws 5,6,7, and 8 are all connected to the second transformer wire, and this block will be mounted under the table at the far end. This will allow me to make multiple connections to my track by tapping into the open screws on the other side of the block and running wire from there to the track rails. If screws 1,2,3, and 4 are hot and 5, 6, 7, and 8 are ground, then I take a wire from the screw opposite screw #1 and attach it to the hot rail nearby. I take a second wire from the screw across from #8 and run it to the ground rail, and I've made a new, duplicate set of connections between the transformer and the track. If you try this and it starts sparking, you reversed the wires and are trying to connect the wires to the wrong rails: switch them.


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## Reckers

Thanks, Tim. Some of what I'm covering is pretty basic stuff, but things like this were all new to me when I first started and I've noticed it's a question that crops up from time to time with beginners. Please feel free to jump in when you have a better technique: this thread is about helping people get started, and I have no corner on good practices.


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Nice electrical "terminal strip" use. Good explanation, too.

I did the same thing (with the same Radio Shack strip, I think!) on my small O layout. Interestingly, many years ago, you could buy strips at Radio Shack that had all of the lower-screw plates electrically connected to each other with little tabs, and ditto for the upper screws. If you wanted the screws jumped (as per your single strand wire runs), you just left the tabs in place. If you didn't want them jumped, you grabbed a needle-nose pliers, tugged the tabs just a bit, and they popped off. Easy, with nice flexibility of use. But ... I haven't seen terminal strips like this at Radio Shack in recent years. Maybe online somewhere?

Keep up the nice detailed descriptions ... great stuff!

TJ


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## Reckers

Thanks for the kind words guys. TIm, you're right---there's no "right" way any more than there's a correct way to paint a seascape. It really comes down to what satisfies you. I like to post my reasoning simply to answer the "Why didn't you..." that might occur to the reader. TJ, I tried to find something like that at the Shack and they no longer had them---go figure. It was either keep searching and delay, or rig my own. I found Lowes had some 18 gauge spools of milti-strand wire and some 20 gauge doorbell wire (solid) marked down, so I should have enough to do the whole layout.


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## Reckers

Back to Coffee Hill....it dried well, some minor fissuring, no big surprise. However, I now had a massive cookie sitting on a flat surface: a noticable drop-off around the perimeter. On the track side, that was intentional. The front, though, was envisioned to be a gentle slope. First things first---make a pot of coffee! And then microwave the grounds to dry them. I dumped a bottle of ancient spices to acquire a shaker-bottle and began drifting the loose grounds down to taper the slope:










I smoothed out the grounds, added some grass....some spray adhesive....the railroad cut has grown a lot of scrub vegetation, over time. A 1/3 Elmers Glue All, 2/3 water dribbled slowly right from the glue bottle holds the bushes in place. The view from the ridge, across the layout:










Closer view:


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## Stillakid

*Coffee?...............*

Len, very, very, nice! I'm totally impressed(and jealous, to boot!)

The layout is progressing really well, and I can close my eyes an envision Atlantics and Pacifics traveling the terrain


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## Reckers

Timboy said:


> *Reckers:* Cookie? Mmmmmmmmmmmm. I looooooove cookies. LOL You sure know how to grow grass! What I love THE most is that the more coffee you drink - for the grounds, of course - the faster you work! LOL
> 
> Timboy


Tim, that's true---once I attain a critical mass of coffee grounds, I do a Great Leap Forward, a la' Mao Tse Tung! (except I don't have that Wall thing going for me...)


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## Reckers

Stillakid said:


> Len, very, very, nice! I'm totally impressed(and jealous, to boot!)
> 
> The layout is progressing really well, and I can close my eyes an envision Atlantics and Pacifics traveling the terrain


Jim, I've finally gotten to the fun part---results become visible quickly. Since I had a lot of little chores to do this weekend and finally had enough coffee to work with, I decided to postpone the trestle work and do some pretty-work, instead. Thank you for the encouragement!


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Wow! That little hill looks fabulous! Really natural-looking, with little divots, little rocks, small clusters of grass. I love it!

Excellent work ... must be all that caffeine!

TJ


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## Reckers

TJ and Tim, thank you! I was pretty happy with the results and the gf was stunned when she saw it. I fired up the Pacific and let it do a high-speed lap and she let out a whoop! Now she wants to know when we're gonna start on her Christmas Village and how the train is going to get to the other table. *L*


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## Reckers

*laughs* Unfortunately, that's the only thing she's impressed with. When she said, "That looks like the real thing...only smaller", she wasn't talking about my layout!


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## tjcruiser

Dohh!


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## Big Ed

I am confused......

I though the whole purpose of using the coffee (besides it was free:laugh,
was for the rich earth tone color.

Now it's all green?

And you better not make fun of NJ's 800"sand mountain, if that is called "Coffee Hill".
You need a little more height to call it a hill. Another 30lbs of coffee should work.


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## Reckers

The purpose of using the coffee grounds, Ed, was to get some
thing (free!) that would work for talus---it didn't. However, serendipity struck and it looked like freshly-plowed earth, ready for corn or tobacco or soybeans. That made me wonder how well it would work for a moldable substance, and the rest was coffee-grounds history. If I go with a plowed field, the coffee grounds are perfect. If I start thinking about building a sand dune and calling it a mountain, I'll just shoot myself and put me out of my misery!


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## Stillakid

*Len, Don't, Do, That.......................*

Instead, just go out and buy you some "O" scale. The effect will be the same, but at least you'd still be here to, "Pal Around" with Big Ed!(on second thought, maybe your idea is better!):laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Reckers

Jim,

I have decided, once this layout is completed, to add a modest O gauge run up the middle. I need to build my S scale trestle first, to get some experience: I suspect an unsupported arch that terminates at the table's edge above a wastebasket will take more skill than I currently have!


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## Reckers

A new and unexpected development: a letter from the landlord. As some of you may recall, I rented this place to have a basement for my trains with some sort of house on top---you'll have to ask the girlfriend about that part, as I'm a little vague on it. Anyway, that was 7 months ago.
I received a letter Friday from the landlord---he says he's decided to sell off all of his investment property, including the place I'm living in. That means the "...and you can renew your lease every year" part of the agreement just went out the window. So, I have three choices: buy the place at his inflated price, wait and see if it sells, or start now preparing to move when the lease expires April 1st. Number 3 seems to be the optimum choice. That means I'll spend this winter packing and, among other things, dismantling the layout I had under way. I'm going to leave the thread as it is, right now, and hope that next summer I'll be renewing construction in a new location.


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## Reckers

*BOL!!!!* First it's Britney, then it's me---obviously there's a conspiracy, here! Next they'll be picking on Mel Gibson! Anyway, it's a waste of time to get upset over it: as I tell my girlfriend, it is what it is. It's just another stone in the path to S scale Super-stardom!


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## tjcruiser

Reck,

Bummer about the apartment. Crazy time for Mr. Landlord to think that he should be cashing out his real estate investments. Buy high, sell low???

Best of luck there, buddy ... best of luck,

TJ


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## T-Man

Bummer
Bummer
Bummer

With the market they way it is I think he is hoping to sell it to you.


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## tjcruiser

Stupid landlord ...

If only he had waited a few months (OK ... mayber closer to a year), Reck would have built himself such a huge, extensive S layout in the basement, that he would have been forced to buy the place from the owner. You want me to disassemble and move my WHAT?!?

Dohh!

TJ


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## T-Man

The landlord is probably a lurker!!!

Booo Hisss!


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## Reckers

*LOL* He probably just wanted to copy my layout! 

The funny part is that, the way he went about it, the girlfriend is p.o.'d and insisting we move as soon as the lease is up, whether he gets it sold or not. Odds are it won't sell: area is too expensive and the banks aren't loaning. Come March, she's going to be itching to get out and get into a new place: he'll have a rental house for sale, no tenant and no buyer on the horizon.


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## Reckers

This is both a post-script to the old house, and a prologue to a new layout. *L* The landlord at the old place has not been able to sell it and contacted me, this week. Seems that, after he put all kinds of money into new carpet and landscaping, someone got into the place and vandalized it. He said the police might want to talk to me, as questioning the previous tenant would be an obvious line of thought. They don't seem interested in helping him, though, since I've never heard from them. Looks like karma came around and bit him in the back end.

That said, the okra, canteloupe and watermelon seedlings all drowned in this year's monsoon and flooding, but the tomatoes and the peppers are looking glorious. My girlfriend has added three rosebushes to the front yard, I put in a lilac in the back, and we're slowly getting the place in shape. Bird-feeders around the back yard are bringing us grackles, starlings, sparrows, doves in abundance, red-wing blackbirds, gold finches, and the occasional blue jay and blue bird. Life is good! Assuming nothing interferes with my plans, my girfriend has to work on Sunday and I've set that day aside for me. It's time to reassemble those tables I took apart at the last house and start planning a new layout!


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## tjcruiser

Hey Reck,

Great to hear a rosey update on your end ... figuratively and literally! Bummer about the old digs, but I'm sure you're resting easy knowing that the vandalism occurred after you had moved out.

Good luck with all the the to-do projects. Looking forward to seeing the Great S Layout ... Rev. 2 !!!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Refresh our memory, how big is your new area?

Basement, upstairs room, garage?

Did you ever post pictures of the new area yet?

Good to hear about the landlord!

WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND!:appl:

Then to have the nerve to tell you that! He is lucky that he is not dealing with me!

Tell him he is working towards a slander suit!

I hope he never sells it, serve him right.

Did you save coffee fields forever?


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## Reckers

Morning, guys! Whew! Been a busy wekend---I spent Saturday driving the girlfriend all over the eastern half of the state, shopping. *L* Hit a lot of small-town junk/antique stores and in general, donated a day to the relationship---making a train day possible. Saturday was mowing and laundry and other chores, but steadily moving closer to "my" day. This morning, I pounded in some t-posts for the tomato plants (I already have 2 micro tomatoes growing on the vines!) and man, is it humid out there! I now have the first table about 3/4 assembled and have to pause to let the drill battery recharge.

Teej, revision #2 is where I'm headed---just haven't worked out, yet, what I want to do. Ed, I've forgotten how big a space I have, but here's a couple of pics I took when I moved in:


























Once I get the tables reassembled, I'll have a 4' x 8' and a 5' x 12' pair of tables to work with. The 4x8 is allotted to the girlfriend's Christmas Village, but I can run a train through or around it.


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## tjcruiser

The MAN CAVE !!!

(With a little tiny girly-girl Christmas corner ...)


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## Timboy

Reck:

All you have to do is relocated the furnace and hot water tank to under the stairs and you can build a shelf layout all the way around the basement! lol


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## Reckers

Fer real, Timboy! I can't take an adequate pic of the place, but it's a great site for a layout with plenty of room and light. I managed to assemble the 4 x 8 table Monday and start on the bigger one, but that's as far as I got. Biggest problem is just finding the time to work on it. However, my girlfriend is going back to PA for a 3-week visit soon, so the aroma of testosterone is already filling the house! I'm stockpiling meat in the freezer, refilling my back-up propane tank, and a serious trip to the liquor store is in the offing. I'm trying to talk her into taking both dogs with her, but so far, she'll only take one of them. *L* Anyway, I'm looking at some serious train-time in the near future! Teej, the 4 x 8 will be my assembly table while I build the layout on the 5 x 12, then I'll clear it for girly-girl land!
And...although the watermelon, canteloupes and okra all drowned in our spring monsoon, the tomatoes and peppers are looking good. I already have two small tomatoes growing, with lots of flowers trying to flag down passing bees. Life is good at Chateau Reck!


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## tjcruiser

Great Man Cave update and report!

(Tomatoes already?!?!? Must be that southern sunshine ... or _moonshine_, maybe ... what are you feeding those things?)

TJ


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## Big Ed

DID YOU SAVE THE COFFEE FIELDS?


What was once on the wall in the first picture? A sink? It looks like a washer hookup next to it.
It looks like it had a little water on the floor in that area at one time?

You could box in under the stairs for storage with shelves.
Behind the boxes on the shelves are more boxes you don't see.


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## tjcruiser

This, from the man who was trying to outbid me on a tinplate bridge. Go figure!


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> This, from the man who was trying to outbid me on a tinplate bridge. Go figure!



There was a lot of 10 (or 11) just like the gray ones here on e bay. # 316 and 317, With the boxes they looked new. With a complete in the box trestle set too. Starting price $175 $30 to ship. sat for 6 days with one bid.

A last second bid was $2 bucks over that.


I gave it some serious thought......but decided against going for it.

One can never have enough bridges right?


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## tjcruiser

Now we all know who to go for when we're hunting for a bridge! You've been "outed", Ed ... officially out of the closet!

Some nice ones in there. Could fit well on S scale, too. Keep you eyes open, Reck ...

TJ


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## Rich_Trains

TeeJ do what I do. I'm always on the lookout for erector set pieces so I can build more of my own bridges. 

Always envy you guys from the east with your basements.

Rich


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## Timboy

Reck: Everyone thinks "train season" is when the snow flies, but for me there's always been two primary train seasons; the snow-fly one and the it's-too-freaking-hot-outside one. I think you are getting into the latter one now. I'm taking a HUGE break from my layout and am doing other things around the house. With the garden comes eating at Chez Timboy's. lol


----------



## Reckers

Tim, I'm with you on that one! The further south you go, the longer the summer train-season lasts! Teej, I'm a garden-gambler---I plant early to get a longer growing season. It worked for the tomatoes and peppers and failed miserably for the okra, canteloupes and waterrmelons. My garden went in about mid-April, but we had record rains that drowned the smaller plants. I did notice that the asparagus I'd given up on now has two or three good shoots up, though, so that bed should be feeding me in about 3 years.
As for bridges, I have 5 of the small girder bridges and one O gauge that should handle two tracks, side by side: a plethora of bridges! Ed, it looks like there was once a laundry sink there, but it's long gone. That wall has some pipe, washer and dryer hookups, and a sump and sump-pump. Plenty of room, though, for the washer and dryer, a dehumidifier and chest freezer. The basement is dry, but the summer air is so humid that I like to use the dehumidifier to compensate for the trains' sake. I'm gradually lining the extra wall space with plastic shelves for my junque, but under the stairs is reserved for my girlfriend. She's from PA, where violent weather consists of heavy snow. Our tendency for tornado near-misses and Katrina's wind-damage freaked her out, so I'm cozying up that little space for her as a tornado shelter. It's the safest place in the house, and I'm outfitting it with something to sit on, a battery-lantern and radio to soothe the savage lil beast when she's scared!


----------



## Reckers

Rich_Trains said:


> TeeJ do what I do. I'm always on the lookout for erector set pieces so I can build more of my own bridges.
> 
> Always envy you guys from the east with your basements.
> 
> Rich


Rich, there is nothing better than a good basement!


----------



## tjcruiser

Reckers said:


> ... under the stairs is reserved for ... a tornado shelter. It's the safest place in the house, and I'm outfitting it with something to sit on, a battery-lantern and radio ...


Good planning. We had a rare, serious tornado in nearby Springfield, MA yesterday. Some buidling carnage and a few deaths, sadly. It's all the talk on the local news. Our morning radio host was describing how he took his family to the basement yesterday during the tornado warning ... to the very spot under the stairs in way of the support columns that you show. A little safe refuge ... hopefully.

TJ


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Good planning. We had a rare, serious tornado in nearby Springfield, MA yesterday. Some buidling carnage and a few deaths, sadly. It's all the talk on the local news. Our morning radio host was describing how he took his family to the basement yesterday during the tornado warning ... to the very spot under the stairs in way of the support columns that you show. A little safe refuge ... hopefully.
> 
> TJ



It kept on rolling east TJ Sturbridge Ma got hit pretty hard too. I am making a run to Leominster Ma tomorrow. I will check it out.

Somebody ran up there today and said you could see where it crossed the highway and the path of twisted trees and damage it left in it's path.


----------



## Reckers

I'm sorry to hear about that damage up in Mass; you folks have my sympathy. Tornados are a fact of life down here; I've yet to see a funnel with the naked eye, but have had them touch down within 10 or 15 miles on a regular basis. As I explained to my girlfriend (who believes our demise from one is imminent), "Look...a tornado will cut a swath anywhere from 50' to 2 miles wide, and leave a path from 100' long to 5 miles long before the funnel collapses. How many of those swaths could you create in this state? We'll get less than 20 touchdowns in the entire year, for the state." Okay, I made up the data, but the premise is correct: driving a car is more likely to hurt or kill you. That said, making her a cozy place will make it easier for her. Ed, I took a second look at your shelves and like them: I'll probably copy what you did. They can hold her tornado supplies! I may also take some plywood and sheath the shelter-area. Again, it's overkill, but will make her feel safer. If one ever comes, it will stop the flying glass from the windows, as well. But most of all, I can mount pegboard on the plywood and hang train-stuff!


----------



## sstlaure

The house I bought in January has a full-on shelter built in the basement. Cinderblocks on all 4 walls with an opening for a large door. The door is framed 2x4 with 3/4" plyboard over the top. The roof of it is 2x12 joists with my paver patio over the top of that.

I lived in OK for 9 years and physically saw (2) twisters - never had decent shelter as they don't typically build houses with basements there. Here in MI twisters are an infrequent occurrance, but do still happen. (Flint,MI got hit back in the 50's with 100+ killed) I like the idea that if I need the shelter - it's there. I also plan to keep my chainsaw down there with us so that if the house does get hit and caves in - we can get ourselves back out.


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> I'm sorry to hear about that damage up in Mass; you folks have my sympathy. Tornados are a fact of life down here; I've yet to see a funnel with the naked eye, but have had them touch down within 10 or 15 miles on a regular basis. As I explained to my girlfriend (who believes our demise from one is imminent), "Look...a tornado will cut a swath anywhere from 50' to 2 miles wide, and leave a path from 100' long to 5 miles long before the funnel collapses. How many of those swaths could you create in this state? We'll get less than 20 touchdowns in the entire year, for the state." Okay, I made up the data, but the premise is correct: driving a car is more likely to hurt or kill you. That said, making her a cozy place will make it easier for her. Ed, I took a second look at your shelves and like them: I'll probably copy what you did. They can hold her tornado supplies! I may also take some plywood and sheath the shelter-area. Again, it's overkill, but will make her feel safer. If one ever comes, it will stop the flying glass from the windows, as well. But most of all, I can mount pegboard on the plywood and hang train-stuff!



Build it out of metal tubes like they build a roll cage on a race car, put a seat with a Hans device and seat belt and a helmet near it and some heavy padding. 
That way if it sucks her out of the house and into the air she should survive. (install a parachute too?)
Build it a 2 seater 1 for you too? (3 seater 1 for the dog?)

Mount a video recorder to it to so she can take a video while flying around.:thumbsup:

I was chased by a tornado in Indiana back in 1994. Me and everyone else that were heading east put the pedal to the medal. 
I could see it in my mirror and it looked like it was gaining on us. We all were hammer down, doing around 90 in the trucks trying to outrun it. 
Cars flying by us way over 100!:laugh:

Then all of the sudden it was gone. 

I don't know if it veered off or sucked itself back into the sky, but I was a happy camper.

That is one scary feeling.


----------



## Reckers

Scott, she's prone to be a screamer----I believe I'll build two separate ones. Hers can have the video and additional seats for the two dogs; I believe I can get by with just a beer keg in mine. *L*

Ed, that's too close for comfort! I tend to be overly casual about them; it's like being struck by lightning. Unless you conciously choose to do stupid things, it's nearly impossible to get hit by lightning. I feel the same about twisters---the odds are so high against you being in the path of one (unless you live in tornado alley), why worry about it? All my preparations are about putting her mind at ease; if it's night-time, I'm more likely to ride it out in bed, snoring away.


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## Reckers

Just a wee bit of modest good news: I ran a locomotive today, first time in the new place! Right now the layout is all rough: no terrain, no elevation, just a simple, 12' x 5' oval. It's not level and the steamer rocks like it's ready to dive for the floor at any time, but it ran. Ed, you'll be happy to know it the honor went to the steamer you sent me, way back when I first started on this site!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Reckers said:


> Ed, you'll be happy to know it the honor went to the steamer you sent me, way back when I first started on this site!


I don't know if he should be happy that it was the sacrificial lamb!


----------



## Reckers

*LOL* Ed knows I'd never use an AF if there were any risk involved. Now, Lionel....there's another matter entirely!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, I didn't hear about any Lionel running the gauntlet, just an AF locomotive.


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## Reckers

True---I was confident of the safety before attempting the run. Had there been any danger, I'd have contacted one of the O Gauge boys for a loaner!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Confident? How about lucky?


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## Reckers

I'll take lucky over smart any day. *LOL*


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Just a wee bit of modest good news: I ran a locomotive today, first time in the new place! Right now the layout is all rough: no terrain, no elevation, just a simple, 12' x 5' oval. It's not level and the steamer rocks like it's ready to dive for the floor at any time, but it ran. Ed, you'll be happy to know it the honor went to the steamer you sent me, way back when I first started on this site!



That engine runs pretty good right?
To bad about that indentation that was on it.


----------



## Reckers

It runs really well, Ed: thanks, again, for your generous gift. I haven't taken any others out of the box, yet: after watching it's progress around the track, I believe I'm going to need to get out the level and shim the table a bit. As best I can tell, the entire concrete floor was poured to give a very slight pitch toward the floor drain, a common practice. As hot as it's supposed to be this weekend, I'll probably spend some time leveling up the table before going any further. It's nice to be able to work on it, again!


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## sstlaure

What I did to level my table Reckers is I drilled a 2" deep 3/8" dia hole into each leg, then I installed nut-serts into the holes, then screwed in a bolt into the nut-sert. To adjust, all I do is crank the bolts in/out to level the whole thing. Very cheap and easy to do.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can also get adjustable feet for benches with the same idea, but they have nice wide pads on the bottom to avoid damage to the floor.


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## Reckers

Scott, that's a great idea and if I had any sense, I'd do that. However, I don't: the table is already assembled and elevating it, at this point, would break it in the center. I'm just too lazy to dismantle the whole thing to get at the bottoms of the legs. Instead, I'm going to approach this the old-fashioned, time-honored way and let the company pay for it. About ten years ago, I ordered a box of business cards for my job and I still have almost half of them left. They are approximately the same dimensions as a 2 x 4, are thin enough to give very gradual elevation increases, and don't require any tools to install. John, you make a valid point about the damage: fortunately, my table rests on a poured-concrete floor. You guys have a very professional approach to dealing with the problem; my saving grace is I can have the whole job done in 10 minutes or so with my admittedly hillbilly engineering.


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## Stillakid

GitErDone
Here abouts, we're called, "Mountain Williams!":laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## tjcruiser

Who has ever used sugar-packets to level a wobbly table at a diner? Paper napkins? A folded straw? Other "get 'er done" innovation ????

TJ


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## Reckers

Stillakid said:


> GitErDone
> Here abouts, we're called, "Mountain Williams!":laugh::laugh::laugh:




Dam' straight.


----------



## Reckers

tjcruiser said:


> Who has ever used sugar-packets to level a wobbly table at a diner? Paper napkins? A folded straw? Other "get 'er done" innovation ????
> 
> TJ


Pennies under the table leg: they stack neatly under the plastic glide that has no means of adjustment. 

I put myself through my last few years of college as the resident thing-maker/repairman/maintenance guy in a cancer reasearch lab. There was a ventilation system overhead that sucked air up from animal enclosures through standard plastic dryer vent hose, that concertina-looking stuff. Sometimes, power would fail and the fan would stop, but no one would be aware of it---test animals who depended upon the air flow died. My boss asked me to rig an alarm system. Since the animals were only in the boxes during treatments, it only needed to be a visual alarm. I took a ladder to the ceiling and attached a 5' length of the dryer vent hose to one of the system's openings. I then took a surgical glove, dropped a marble into the middle finger, and colored that finger with a red marking pen. I stretched the glove's wrist over the open end of the dryer vent hose. When the fan was running properly, the suction pulled the glove inside the hose and the hose up against the ceiling, neatly out of sight. If the fan stopped, however, the loss of vacuum resulted in the hose rapidly descending from the ceiling and the glove would drop, red middle finger extended, to indicate the ventilation system's status.


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## tjcruiser

Reckers said:


> ...the middle finger, and colored that finger with a red marking pen...


:laugh::laugh::laugh:
:worshippy::appl::worshippy:

Brilliant! Simply brilliant!!!


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## Reckers

Thank you....*takes a bow*....my boss loved it!


----------



## Komodo

any more news?


----------



## Reckers

Only that got a little done on leveling the table up, this weekend---thank you for asking. Saturday was my son's birthday, so I didn't have a lot of time to devote to my layout. Sunday, I had to cut the grass and catch up my laundry, so that sort of ate up my day.


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## Reckers

Resurrection time. After a lot of deliberation, I've stripped the surface down to the basic pink sheet to start anew. This layout will have more modest aspirations in the area of elevation and terrain: my girlfriend would like to incorporate her Christmas Village into it, so we're going to have winter, year-round. The lake will be expanded and will have mirror-glass for a surface. It's hard to get back far enough to get the 12' x 5' into one shot, so I settled for 2:


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## Big Ed

And he's been singing........:appl:

I've been working on the railroad All the live-long day. I've been working on the railroad Just to pass the time away. Don't you hear the whistle blowing, Rise up so early in the morn, Don't you hear the captain shouting, "Dinah, blow your horn!"

ALONG WITH A 6 PACK OF SUDS


Feel good to be back building?:thumbsup:

Come the cold weather you will get a lot more done, nice and cozy in your dungeon. ( man cave):thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

Progress !!!

:worshippy::worshippy::worshippy:


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## Reckers

It's definitely good to be back in the game!


----------



## Big Ed

You need to hang one of your picture finds right over that black spot on the wall.:thumbsup:
The one of the old port will do.


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## T-Man

*Alright!!!!*

Just don't move before it's finished.


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## Reckers

*LOL* I didn't forsee moving before the last one was. Ed, you're right, I need some decor. The port, however, has an honored place in the combination spare bedroom/office. I did get a modest amount completed today; a lot of sanding and I ate a lot of pink dust. I've pulled some of the sheets of pink insulation apart, reducing my ridge to a rise: this layout will have a lot of my girlfriends Christmas Village stuff, so level ground is at a premium. After rounding off the leading edge and the ends, I've siliconed it to the base sheet with some weight to hold it down:










The back edge of the lake used to be a straight line, as it was under the ridge. This meant I had to cut a more realistic shoreline, enlarging the lake:










Since it will be winter, ice-skating and possibly ice-hockey or ice-boating will be the norm, but first, I need ice:










Ignore the reflection....that's a piece of mirror, cut to fit the hole.


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## Reckers

A few more shots...some gradual progress.

The frozen lake, pre-installation:


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## Reckers

Spackling to create smoother contours and hide seams. It goes on pink: when it's dry enough to paint or sand, it turns white.


----------



## Reckers




----------



## Reckers

Small pond is in, but the lake is still coming. I had to sand all the spackling---I used about a quart of it----then brush all the dust off. A nice way to smooth out the last of the curves in the spacking is with a damp sponge. The spackling is water-soluable, so the water erodes the ridges in it just as water will smooth the rough edges in nature. Finally, I put a quart of white paint on as a base coat to cover the pink. You can hardly make out any detail now because of the white-on-white effect.


----------



## Reckers

Next step is to install the lake. Since the mirror is only about 3/16" thick, I need to both elevate it and protect it from the inevitable impacts that will occur. I cut three thicknesses of bubble-wrap to the shape of the mirror, then placed them in the hole that will be the frozen lake. The mirror is then settled in on top of them, and the edges of the lake spackled to bring the shoreline down gradually to the water. Again, the wet sponge smooths out the curves. Will post a pic of the final installation soon.


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Next step is to install the lake. Since the mirror is only about 3/16" thick, I need to both elevate it and protect it from the inevitable impacts that will occur. I cut three thicknesses of bubble-wrap to the shape of the mirror, then placed them in the hole that will be the frozen lake. The mirror is then settled in on top of them, and the edges of the lake spackled to bring the shoreline down gradually to the water. Again, the wet sponge smooths out the curves. Will post a pic of the final installation soon.



Hey.......don't forget to leave room for the track.

From the way the picture was shot your lake looks like is as 2x4's in it.


----------



## Reckers

That's why it's called Pine Lake, Ed. *L* As for track...the gandy dancers have been busy.


----------



## tjcruiser

Smart idea to place the mirror on bubble wrap for cushioning!

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Thank you, Teej. I hope it will help it survive the inevitable---you know somebody is gonna drop something on it, eventually! Now I'm working on track and turnouts: reworking these old black bakelite monsters so they throw smoothly before putting them into place. I have a combination of manual and electric, so the manual's will go to the outside and the electrics to the inside track segments.


----------



## tjcruiser

Do you have a new track plan sketch? Or still in the brainstorming phase, maybe?


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## Reckers

Teej,

I do have an Anyrail diagram, but can't figure out any way to save it except in Anyrail format. When I get home, I'll try to see what can be done to make it post-able. It's not a particularly logical arrangement in the sense of moving freight from factories around, etc.: it's just for fun. Since I have a 5' x 12' space, it has a ridge in the background that provides a slight elevation for track and background buildings. You've seen the lake and the pond in the pics. So, assume track making a big loop around the perimeter, as wide and far as the surface allows: that's the main line. In the front (long side nearest camera), a siding will run inside the main line. The front has a long, straight stretch in the main line and the first and last straight tracks will be turnouts. That creates two parallel tracks as close as the standard track allows.

The lake is in the center, more or less, of the layout. Coming off the siding will be a second pair of turnouts that in theory, will allow another circle in the center that will enclose the lake, more or less. Since I didn't have this in mind when I did all the foam and glass work, I don't know yet if I can make them match up with the lake location. If not, I may have some replanning to do. If I can figure out a way to get it on line, I'll hang up a picture, here.


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## tjcruiser

Hi Reck,

If you happen to know it, can you refresh my memory on what "standard" track radius pieces are available in AF S? (Or what radii you'll be working with.) Just curious, as you are mentioning your layout ideas.

It's funny ... with the white plaster work, I can picture a wintery / frozen layout scene already!

TJ


----------



## T-Man

Back on Track! :thumbsup:

Don't get into any slumps. 

I do find the track clips interesting. I think I have seen them at a train show. I just didn't know they were Flyers.


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## Big Ed

Your rail looks as close to the side as I am.

Pine lake....at first glance I thought it was a ole in the table.


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## Reckers

Teej,

I gave up on trying to do the pic or drawing and went to the source. I've pieced together the bulk of it, but there's one stretch across the back that's simply laid out to give the idea of where it's going (assuming it works!):

Front view from the left:










Front view from the right:










And a look down the back stretch. The inner line on the left is not assembled. I need to work over the turnouts, first.


----------



## Reckers

Teej, I've seen radius figures of 19" and 19.5": I just use the Anyrail to see what fits and the saw to shorten as necessary. *L*


----------



## Reckers

T-Man said:


> Back on Track! :thumbsup:
> 
> Don't get into any slumps.
> 
> I do find the track clips interesting. I think I have seen them at a train show. I just didn't know they were Flyers.


Thanks for the encouragement, Bob! With the move and most of summer behind me, I'm finally finding time to work on it. Since my lady wants to see her stuff on the table as well, I have a lot of...ah...encouragement?


----------



## Reckers

big ed said:


> Your rail looks as close to the side as I am.
> 
> Pine lake....at first glance I thought it was a ole in the table.


You need to look closer, Dear Liza. The ole is in the bucket!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> You need to look closer, Dear Liza. The ole is in the bucket!


 I was referring to this picture,


----------



## tjcruiser

Reck,

I like it. I think the loop around the frozen pond with a winter / Christmas theme will look very inviting. Sort of story-book style. Neat.

Thanks for the track radii info. So pretty much a standard curve, with straight pieces on the ends of the outer loop to yield the larger depth. Got it.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Reckers

big ed said:


> I was referring to this picture,
> 
> View attachment 11381


Understood, Ed, but I couldn't resist the old "There's a hole in the bucket, Dear Liza...." song. At this time, the mirror has been installed in the hole, the slope to the glass, aka ice, has been created by spackling, and all is good in the world. Next step is to lay the track and make sure it works. You've probably noticed that building a layout is like reproducing history. Geology and terrain are followed by the laying of track; towns and farms grow up along the track and then weather follows the towns and people because someone is there to notice it!


----------



## Reckers

tjcruiser said:


> Reck,
> 
> I like it. I think the loop around the frozen pond with a winter / Christmas theme will look very inviting. Sort of story-book style. Neat.
> 
> Thanks for the track radii info. So pretty much a standard curve, with straight pieces on the ends of the outer loop to yield the larger depth. Got it.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


Thank you, Teej. I'll have to chop a length of track to make it fit, but you have the idea. My girlfriend was entranced with the idea of skaters on the frozen lake; if we stay to scale, there's room for skaters and perhaps an ice-boat or a hockey game, depending on what's available. A fire to stay warm and a small train platform for people arriving and departing. Somehow, the rest of the layout needs to include my water tower, possibly a water tank, two stockyards, and a number of her Christmas Village buildings and people. (One corner is for a graveyard and Halloween: it never snows on that corner). The whole thing is frivolous, based on whimsy instead of reality, but that's what we want.


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Understood, Ed, but I couldn't resist the old "There's a hole in the bucket, Dear Liza...." song. At this time, the mirror has been installed in the hole, the slope to the glass, aka ice, has been created by spackling, and all is good in the world. Next step is to lay the track and make sure it works. You've probably noticed that building a layout is like reproducing history. Geology and terrain are followed by the laying of track; towns and farms grow up along the track and then weather follows the towns and people because someone is there to notice it!



You got to paint the pipe on the ceiling.
That is not a water pipe is it?
That is not a gas pipe is it?


----------



## Reckers

I'm not sure which it is, Ed. The alternatives are to move the mirror (I did), or tell you to stand somewhere else!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Hope you never have to get to the sewer cleanout plug.


----------



## Reckers

*LOL* John, the picture is deceiving. There's plenty of room for me to get around that end of the table, and believe me----I'm no skinny boy!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Good that you considered that.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Hope you never have to get to the sewer cleanout plug.


Just put a water treatment plant back in that corner.

Just hope they never have to rotor rooter the pipe.


----------



## Reckers

There's about 30" from table to wall, and I can slide the table if need be---not a problem!


----------



## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> There's about 30" from table to wall, and I can slide the table if need be---not a problem!


OK, then wire brush it and give it a coat of paint.

Or build a portable "ROCK" to stick over it.:thumbsup:
It wouldn't need to be that big.


----------



## Reckers

I was thinking about turning it into a Mario Brothers pipe the trains could disappear into!


----------



## flyernut

I thought it was a opening to a fancy tunnel....


----------



## Reckers

That would be an excellent idea, Flyernut! I could remove the plug to the cleanout and run some of that three-railed track across a drawbridge, right into that pipe.....*LOL* Then invite all the O-Gaugers over to play!:cheeky4::cheeky4::cheeky4:


----------



## Dream

What color is the textured paint you use to get the sand color?


----------



## Reckers

That is Rustoleum American Accents Stone paint in a spray can; you can see the can on page 5, entry #172 if you want to flip back to it. It's a nice texture: the color is a pale brown. I also found that, if you're careful, you can use oil-based spray paints to accent your layout. The trick is to do what I call overspray: you hold the can horizontally, about 3 feet above the layout and spray, letting it fall to the layout. Apparently the toluene or whatever solvent is in the can starts evaporating and the paint falls without doing any damage. I would stress that you can't spray a coat of paint on your layout like this---it's only for getting little dots of another color scattered across your base coat to make it appear less uniform and more natural.


----------



## Dream

Reckers said:


> That is Rustoleum American Accents Stone paint in a spray can; you can see the can on page 5, entry #172 if you want to flip back to it. It's a nice texture: the color is a pale brown. I also found that, if you're careful, you can use oil-based spray paints to accent your layout. The trick is to do what I call overspray: you hold the can horizontally, about 3 feet above the layout and spray, letting it fall to the layout. Apparently the toluene or whatever solvent is in the can starts evaporating and the paint falls without doing any damage. I would stress that you can't spray a coat of paint on your layout like this---it's only for getting little dots of another color scattered across your base coat to make it appear less uniform and more natural.


They have lot of different shades, couldn't figure out which one you used. 

It looked like you use this spray paint as your base color, so its not?


----------



## Reckers

On the ridge, I first used a base coat of pale yellow latex. After that, I used the textured paint. I also experimented with several colors of it as an overspray, creating random droplets of odd colors---there's even a little bit of blue and green conventional spray paint scattered across it. I figured that nature tends to drop in the odd color here and there, so I did, too.
One other point---most layouts end up built in shadowy areas like basements and garages. These places are pretty light-absorbent, and duplicating the color you see outside will end up giving your layout darker, duller colors. If you start a shade or two lighter than you want, the shadows dull it down to what you really wanted.


----------



## Reckers

Just a modest progress report on Winter Wonderland. I'm still in search of some S scale ice skaters, but the ground has frozen and the people are beginning to arrive....snow is in the forecast.


----------



## tjcruiser

Hey Reck,

That's some nice progress you've made! I really like the winter snow theme. Great fun!

TJ


----------



## Reckers

Thank you, Teej. It's a little flatter than I'd originally planned, but that accomodates more of my sweetie's Christmas Village stuff. Having her interested and participating was more than worth the reduction in altitude!


----------



## Stillakid

Hey "Old Man", noticed you brought down the "Reach Extender" from the pantry. Nice way to reach across the table


----------



## tjcruiser

"Ooohhh ... the CLAW!!! ... The Claw chooses who will go and who will stay!"

(A little Toy Story fun!)

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

It needs more snow.:thumbsup:

Next picture, pick up the trees and snowman before you take the shot!:laugh:

How come the blocks of wood under the rails?
The track sort of looks like when you hookup O/27 track to an O switch.
Why is it raised off the switch like that.

Are you using Lionel switches? :laugh:


----------



## Reckers

Jim, that Extender was a present for my sweetie. At 4'10", her reach is limited and she wants to place everything!

TJ, when Der Klaw speaks, they listen. He has vays of making tings go very bad for dem dat don't listen!!!


----------



## Reckers

Ed, what you're looking at is partial completion. The wood blocks are just that: temporary support to test the track, as the back edge is elevated on a slight ridge. It will be replaced with something better, down the line. You're right about the snow, but it hasn't arrived, yet. All the scattered trees and such are just sort of dumped there for the time being as we work on it. Once everything is in place, the Woodland Scenic snow will fall all over the layout.

As for the switches, they're standard AF. The inner circle will be on a gradual upslope to reach elevation at the back side of that small loop. All the rest are sitting on the "ground", but the white paint makes them look suspended in the air.


----------



## Reckers

A bit of an update on progress---you'll notice ice skating has commenced. No snowfall scheduled, though, until I get the building lights wired!


----------



## flyernut

nice!


----------



## Reckers

Thank you! It's coming along slowly, but it's coming. I've had to lower my expectations, so to speak, with terrain: I have a lot of short-run loops that can't accomplish much climbing. I couldn't get the whole layout into the pics very well. There is one corner that is sort of barren: it's going to end up being a Halloween graveyard area that is immune to winter. It will have grass, graves, and whatever I can scavenge up in monsters and such. A small log cabin will be set back in the woods, eventually, with a trail to it.


----------



## dc57

The layout looks great, Reckers! Nice job so far. I was wondering where you get your houses and people from? I'm sorry if you answered this earlier and I missed it.

Thanks
Don


----------



## Reckers

Don, thank you. The houses and people came from several sources. My girlfriend is an avid Christmas Village collector, so some of the people came from stuff she's accumulated over the years. That stuff comes in several sizes, and you can find it at the expensive stores or Walmart and Lowes. Then there are Junque shops: I stumbled across someone's collection for sale in one and got (for her) about 60 pieces for about $30. Right now is a good time to be looking: people who bought collections during the year are trying to sell them in the second-hand shops. Finally, I bought the skaters at a train show recently in Nashville. There are several companies that sell S scale people (new) and can be found on line. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll help you search them out.


----------



## dc57

Hi Reckers,

Thank you for the info and the ideas. I never thought about looking in resale shops for train stuff. I will look around the Internet and see what I can find, too.

Your layout and step by step description on how you built it has given me enough confidence that I am ready to start building my own. I finally have the room for one and your layout looks perfect for what I want to do with mine. 

I think you're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your progress.

Thank you
Don


----------



## Big Ed

Looks good reckers:thumbsup:, why don't you get some cotton for the layout.
Get the big wads they sell, tear off pieces and put them around your winter scene.

It will break up the flat look and look like piles of snow blown around.
Fluff them up in spots.

You don't have to glue it just place it all around that way you can take it off if you need too. 

The lake could use some skate skid marks too.:thumbsup:
Dremal tool?

Edit,
Maybe some paint and a very small brush?
The paint should come off the mirror if it don't look good.
Put it behind the skaters. Coming off their skates.

Edit again,

If you want.

Edit again,

Hide the switches a little, with some of the "snow" cotton?


----------



## Reckers

dc57 said:


> Hi Reckers,
> 
> Thank you for the info and the ideas. I never thought about looking in resale shops for train stuff. I will look around the Internet and see what I can find, too.
> 
> Your layout and step by step description on how you built it has given me enough confidence that I am ready to start building my own. I finally have the room for one and your layout looks perfect for what I want to do with mine.
> 
> I think you're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your progress.
> 
> Thank you
> Don



Don, thank you. I have to acknowledge that the folks on this site have taught me anything I know about building a layout. In fact, at one time, there was a saying on this site: "That's so easy, even Reckers could do it!" Between your own common sense and the help you can get here, you won't have any problems. Let us see some pics as you progress with it.

Best wishes,


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## Reckers

big ed said:


> Looks good reckers:thumbsup:, why don't you get some cotton for the layout.
> Get the big wads they sell, tear off pieces and put them around your winter scene.
> 
> It will break up the flat look and look like piles of snow blown around.
> Fluff them up in spots.
> 
> You don't have to glue it just place it all around that way you can take it off if you need too.
> 
> The lake could use some skate skid marks too.:thumbsup:
> Dremal tool?
> 
> Edit,
> Maybe some paint and a very small brush?
> The paint should come off the mirror if it don't look good.
> Put it behind the skaters. Coming off their skates.
> 
> Edit again,
> 
> If you want.
> 
> Edit again,
> 
> Hide the switches a little, with some of the "snow" cotton?



Ed, my plan is to get a couple of big jugs of Woodland Scenic snow and have a blizzard over the table to hide the switches and generally give a snow effect and texture. That has to wait, though, until I'm done wiring and terra-forming. Those wooden risers under the center loop will have to go: that means more spackling to create a roadbed. I really like your idea about putting skid marks behind the skaters. I think I could do something with blue masking tape and superglue: use the tape to create a very narrow slit behind the skate by using two strips just a hair apart. Then superglue down the strip and peel off the tape a few minutes later. That's a great idea, and thanks for suggesting it!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## dc57

Reckers said:


> Don, thank you. I have to acknowledge that the folks on this site have taught me anything I know about building a layout. In fact, at one time, there was a saying on this site: "That's so easy, even Reckers could do it!" Between your own common sense and the help you can get here, you won't have any problems. Let us see some pics as you progress with it.
> 
> Best wishes,


Thanks, I will do that reckers. Hopefully I will get started shortly after the holidays.


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