# What is best Control



## Hyvonen1 (Nov 12, 2017)

Returning after couple of decades... All my train stuff burned in a fie in 2015. Had a lot from the '60s and 70s. Bought some "vintage" stuff to start, remote switches, coal unloaders, cars, a 'good' steam loco. Now as I look further there are Major changes in technology. TMCC, Legacy, CAB, Command Control lion chief, etc.

Last year I bought a Lion chief set for my grandson as a starter.
As I started a couple of months ago, I considered that as a starter for my next generation layout. Then I discovered that its growth is very limited.

After a lot of reading, I would like the capability of the legacy that I have read about. Is that the right path??? Is it the latest and most flexible?

It appears I can incorporate some of what I bought of vintage rail and equipment with some adaptation, but I am not sure of what all the different systems are. Lionel has tried to maintain backward compatibility in my experience, but is there a different path that they are going or is legacy the current 'migration' path? If not, what is?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Of all the current systems, IMO the Lionel Legacy is the most flexible and the easiest command system to get going. There are tons of options for command controlled accessories as well, so it's kind of a one-stop shop. Legacy isn't going away any time soon, the LC and LC+ line is just an entry level product.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2017)

No question, Legacy is hands down the best remote control system in O-Gauge.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

If you plan to go all in with the O gauge hobby, then you'd want to investigate Mike's Train House DCS _(Digital Command System)_. Lionel Legacy is a fine system that I also use, but to me DCS was more intuitive and just as easy to set up.

It will operate all MTH and Lionel TMCC locomotives with just the handheld remote and the included TIU _(Track Interface Unit)_. And if you include their WiFi module you can also operate Lionel Legacy locomotives using your smart phone or tablet with their available app. There is a free app with basic controls and a paid app _(one time $24.99 cost)_ with full capability. Lionel also has a WiFi set up too.

For full enjoyment of all brands of locomotives I operate both Legacy and DCS and never looked back!


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

I have Mike's Train House (MTH) DCS. I'm able to operate either MTH or Lionel locomotives with their respective command control systems. I can operate any 3 rail O gauge locomotive in conventional mode. DCS is a big part of the reason I have gone crazy with acquiring locomotives, rolling stock as well as preparing to build a large O scale layout in my basement. I would second the recommendation to look at DCS and MTH.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Even though you can run Legacy engines with DCS, you can't access all of the Legacy features. DCS is simple if you have experience running RC engines. Lionel Cab-1L is simple and I think it's great if your just learning. If you decide you like it then move up to Lionel Cab-2 or MTH DCS.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

The Premium version of the DCS app has the ability to control Legacy engines in full Legacy command mode, with the Legacy Command Base and the Lionel 6-81326 SER2 WiFi Module connected to the TIU with the required cables.

Lots of information on the MTH DCS section of the OGR Forum.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

The best control system is dependent on the manufacture of your locomotives. If you run both Lionel & MTH locos the best CC system would be both systems.

Bill


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

As you probably noticed, this is a topic that if you ask 4 people you get 5 opinions. I think both systems have their followers and both are probably equally good. I like MTH engines and so have a DCS system which I like. My club is installing DCS and will probably add Legacy later. We started with DCS because we have mostly MTH engines. Take in all the opinions, try out the systems at your LHS and make a choice that is best for your needs. Good luck and happy railroading.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

MTH's DCS


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2017)

Problem solved about compatibility for me, I just run Legacy/TMCC engines and I am very happy with this arrangement.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

if you want to just run trains then TMCC/Legacy command system is your best choice hands down.
but if you like to constantly work on dcs system instead of running trains by all means use it!!
as to apps and trains again do you want to wait for bugs in apps to get corrected and not in a timely manor or just enjoy running your trains an old saying..."Less Is More"

myself I prefer to run my trains! whatever system you decide to use enjoy your trains!!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC I agree with you 100% TMCC/Legacy runs it all including MTH I found running them in conventional less agitating.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Traindiesel said:


> The Premium version of the DCS app has the ability to control Legacy engines in full Legacy command mode, with the Legacy Command Base and the Lionel 6-81326 SER2 WiFi Module connected to the TIU with the required cables.
> 
> Lots of information on the MTH DCS section of the OGR Forum.


So you have to buy the DCS remote, a TIU, a legacy base, cables and now WIFI? Seems a lot of money just to run trains. If that's what you want to do that's fine, but it seems to me it should be MTH or Legacy. Is the DCS app for Legacy free or do you have to buy that too?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

empire builder said:


> if you want to just run trains then TMCC/Legacy command system is your best choice hands down.
> but if you like to constantly work on dcs system instead of running trains by all means use it!!
> as to apps and trains again do you want to wait for bugs in apps to get corrected and not in a timely manor or just enjoy running your trains an old saying..."Less Is More"
> 
> myself I prefer to run my trains! whatever system you decide to use enjoy your trains!!


Been Running DCS since the first day it was released, same for TMCC. DCS is significantly more superior to TMCC in operating capabilities and operating fun.

On my previous layout running 3 main lines through a tunnel I would lose the TMCC signal to the center main line. Very frustrating digging out the lifeless TMCC loco, finally had to tear that section out.

Bill


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

seayakbill said:


> Been Running DCS since the first day it was released, same for TMCC. DCS is significantly more superior to TMCC in operating capabilities and operating fun.
> 
> On my previous layout running 3 main lines through a tunnel I would lose the TMCC signal to the center main line. Very frustrating digging out the lifeless TMCC loco, finally had to tear that section out.
> 
> Bill


I am glad for you myself I have had the opposite experience with DCS


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

DennyM said:


> So you have to buy the DCS remote, a TIU, a legacy base, cables and now WIFI? Seems a lot of money just to run trains. If that's what you want to do that's fine, but it seems to me it should be MTH or Legacy. Is the DCS app free or do you have to buy that too?


DCS App has a free App limited use I think and last I knew $50 App that does it all plus you get its bugs for free LOL

and you need a smartphone or a tablet somehow the DCS remote and Tiu system is cheaper! but then a conventional layout cheaper than all of it.
yes I am an old school guy I enjoy the modern engines but tire of all the noise and as of late lubed up some good old conventional engines and a smile emerged from my face.

Just my 2 cent opinion


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> The best control system is dependent on the manufacture of your locomotives. If you run both Lionel & MTH locos the best CC system would be both systems.
> 
> Bill


:thumbsup:

If you just want to run trains and are not particular what trains you run then Legacy may be a bit easier to implement but if you follow a particular railroad or railroads then you will want both systems. MTH has made many more of the obscure lines and prototypes than Lionel.

Pete


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

For clarification, Traindiesel and others, your comment, "There is a free (DCS) app with basic controls and a paid app (one time $24.99 cost) with full capability" isn't accurate. The DCS premium app doesn't have full capability of DCS functions since both the ProtoCast and ProtoDispatch features can only be activated using the DCS handheld controller. The DCS premium app does not support either ProCast or ProtoDispatch.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

This is the old Ford vs. Chevy argument, there's some merit to either viewpoint. The bottom line is both systems have their pluses and minuses. I can say that I know of a LOT more layouts that have issues with DCS signals than have issues with TMCC/Legacy signals. Most small layouts will not have issues with either type.

I'm about to finish a product that solves many of the TMCC/Legacy signal issues that are encountered on really large layouts. Places like the New Jersey High-Railers can't live without a TMCC buffer, with it they've nailed down any TMCC/Legacy signal issues. However, but they're still fighting DCS issues all over the place, with no end in sight!

Remember, a small layout will perhaps enjoy a small cost advantage with DCS over Legacy. Transition to a large layout that needs multiple TIU's, and also multiple WiFi units, and the DCS expenses start shooting up way faster than with Legacy.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

The larger the layout the more difficult it is to get a command system to work perfectly. I know that Tony Lash tried for over a year to get TMCC to work on his giant layout but was never successful and yet DCS worked perfectly on the layout. Its just a roll of the dice.

Bill


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

seayakbill said:


> The larger the layout the more difficult it is to get a command system to work perfectly. I know that Tony Lash tried for over a year to get TMCC to work on his giant layout but was never successful and yet DCS worked perfectly on the layout. Its just a roll of the dice.
> 
> Bill


Our club layout is a pretty good size and doesn't have any problems with Legacy or TMCC.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> This is the old Ford vs. Chevy argument, there's some merit to either viewpoint. The bottom line is both systems have their pluses and minuses. I can say that I know of a LOT more layouts that have issues with DCS signals than have issues with TMCC/Legacy signals. Most small layouts will not have issues with either type.
> 
> I'm about to finish a product that solves many of the TMCC/Legacy signal issues that are encountered on really large layouts. Places like the New Jersey High-Railers can't live without a TMCC buffer, with it they've nailed down any TMCC/Legacy signal issues. However, but they're still fighting DCS issues all over the place, with no end in sight!
> 
> Remember, a small layout will perhaps enjoy a small cost advantage with DCS over Legacy. Transition to a large layout that needs multiple TIU's, and also multiple WiFi units, and the DCS expenses start shooting up way faster than with Legacy.


I wouldn't say argument, I would say intellectual train debating.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

DennyM said:


> Our club layout is a pretty good size and doesn't have any problems with Legacy or TMCC.


We have zero problems at our club with TMCC/Legacy, and there are multiple levels. However, we're still struggling with DCS, right now we have three TIU's in service, you'd think that would be enough to get the signal all around!

Talking about the New Jersey High-Railers, you have to see it to understand the scope of the layout and why it presents special challenges. There are many thousands of feet of track on multiple levels. The layout is 185 feet long by 30 feet wide.









The Cafe they serve food in is larger than most layouts!


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## Hyvonen1 (Nov 12, 2017)

*Looks like I need more research*

Is MTH a competing brand to Lionel?

Can the DCS incorporate Legacy and vice versa?

Where should I look to read up on these. My nearest hobby store I am aware of is in Raleigh, about 2 hours away. I will go there again. They sold me a Polar Express a couple of weeks ago. I think that will be more appropriate for my grand kids.

I would like to mix some of my old equipment with the newer stuff and expand from there. The new stuff looks great, but my old stuff is also nice

I will try to reach then then unless I can find a contact sooner.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

For what it is worth I firmly believe conventional is the best way to run. It is the only system that will run everything, and run different brands of locos (Legacy, DCS, Darsted, 3rd Rail, Atlas, WBB) together at the same time. It is far more trouble-free that TMCC, Legacy, or DCS, and costs less, too. With modern locos that have cruise, etc., it also allows you to run long heavy trains at low, realistic speeds, and control speed well. 

Less technology = more time and money for the trains!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

HOLY SMOKE!!! It's huge!!


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## Hyvonen1 (Nov 12, 2017)

I lost a sentence on that last post. I will try to contact the Cape Fear Model Railroaders in Dec. They set up near the mall. Otherwise, I don't think they have a permanent home


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

With TMCC/Legacy its less about the square footage of a layout and more about overhead shielding caused by metal bridges and metal used in mountains or other structures.
Single level layouts can be very large and still have good signal everywhere. Our modular club has built layouts larger than 130' x 60' with many loops creating over 500' of mainline with no signal problems. With Legacy you will get even better signal propagation than with TMCC.
This is just a medium size club layout. We have enough modules to make one at least twice as big.











Pete


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

DennyM said:


> So you have to buy the DCS remote, a TIU, a legacy base, cables and now WIFI? Seems a lot of money just to run trains. If that's what you want to do that's fine, but it seems to me it should be MTH or Legacy. Is the DCS app for Legacy free or do you have to buy that too?


That's just one option if you want to operate all brands of locomotives with just your own smartphone. Even if you just operated Legacy, you'd need to buy Lionel Wifi modules and the Lionel app if you wanted to operate them with your smartphone rather than the bulky hand held remote. But the Legacy system can't operate MTH engines in command mode, but DCS can operate Legacy in command mode with the proper set up. See my first post in this thread about the cost of the MTH apps.

This thread is asking about command control systems. I'm just providing information. As John said, both systems have their issues, and most of them are operator error. I've had problems with both systems, but I got them both operating well.



ogaugeguy said:


> For clarification, Traindiesel and others, your comment, "There is a free (DCS) app with basic controls and a paid app (one time $24.99 cost) with full capability" isn't accurate. The DCS premium app doesn't have full capability of DCS functions since both the ProtoCast and ProtoDispatch features can only be activated using the DCS handheld controller. The DCS premium app does not support either ProCast or ProtoDispatch.


ProtoCast and ProtoDispatch aren't necessary to operate the locomotives. They are play value functions. If someone really wanted to use those functions they could use the remote.



Hyvonen1 said:


> Is MTH a competing brand to Lionel?
> 
> Yes, they are competitors. But recently they've been working together to create remakes of Lionel tinplate trains with MTH electronics.
> 
> ...


But most of all, have fun!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Norton said:


> With TMCC/Legacy its less about the square footage of a layout and more about overhead shielding caused by metal bridges and metal used in mountains or other structures.
> Single level layouts can be very large and still have good signal everywhere. Our modular club has built layouts larger than 130' x 60' with many loops creating over 500' of mainline with no signal problems. With Legacy you will get even better signal propagation than with TMCC.
> This is just a medium size club layout. We have enough modules to make one at least twice as big.
> 
> ...


Pete using words like propagation makes me think your one of those 'Ham Radio' operators...just like me.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Denny, I just listen to radio, no talking. Heck my cell phone is off 99% of the time. My day job is electrical engineering though. Sometimes the jargon just slips out.

Pete


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Norton said:


> Denny, I just listen to radio, no talking. Heck my cell phone is off 99% of the time. My day job is electrical engineering though. Sometimes the jargon just slips out.
> 
> Pete


I have a friend here who is a retired electrical engineer. He runs O gauge and you should see how he tweaked his accessories.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Traindiesel said:


> That's just one option if you want to operate all brands of locomotives with just your own smartphone. Even if you just operated Legacy, you'd need to buy Lionel Wifi modules and the Lionel app if you wanted to operate them with your smartphone rather than the bulky hand held remote. But the Legacy system can't operate MTH engines in command mode, but DCS can operate Legacy in command mode with the proper set up. See my first post in this thread about the cost of the MTH apps.
> 
> This thread is asking about command control systems. I'm just providing information. As John said, both systems have their issues, and most of them are operator error. I've had problems with both systems, but I got them both operating well.
> 
> ...


Traindiesel, I didn't claim ProtoCast and ProtoDispatch were necessary to operate locomotives. My post referred solely to the comment that the DCS premium app gave full command of all DCS functions and regardless of the reason for their use, ProtoCast and ProtoDispatch _*are*_ DCS functions. Btw, when we say, "operate the locomotives" aren't we also discussing a play function since in reality that's merely another way of saying _when us grown men play with our toy trains_?


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

It has probably been said but consider which manufacturer you are already invested in and use that control system. I had conventional MTH but several Lionel and Atlas locos with TMCC on board. That was an easy choice for me. One wire hookup, program the locos and away you go. I don't want to bash MTH, they seem to have a great system as well but at one Trainstock I overheard a conversation where someone had to come in and spend the better part of a day troubleshooting a layout with DCS. Cost the user $1,000 to fix. Perhaps this is a one off experience. I may move to legacy at some point but everything works and I can upgrade other locos easily as time goes on.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've seen a fair number of layouts, both modular and fixed. I see a lot more issues trying to get MTH running properly than with TMCC/Legacy. That's a sample of one person, but 40-50 layouts. If you have MTH running smoothly, it's a very capable system, it's just the challenge of getting that done.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

I like both Legacy and DCS. Legacy is the easiest to set up and run. Plus if I accidentally drop my Legacy Cab2 nothing broke on it like the thumbwheel does on the MTH DCS. I have broken two so far oh clumsy me.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One nice thing about Legacy is you can buy the CAB1L without any fragile displays and still use it with the Legacy system.


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

A question somewhat related to the topic. If you do not own any Legacy locos what additional features, if any, does the legacy control system offer? I understand the CAB-1 TMCC system is old and obsolete, just seeking to understand the difference in the platform.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

You know what they say about opinions, but here's mine.

My dad an I both run DCS and TMCC together. We run the TMCC through the DCS systems. We have found that most of the time the issues we have with DCS or TMCC are actually our own fault. Rarely do we have an issue we didn't cause. We have found DCS and TMCC to both have their respective advantages and disadvantages. We have found MTH locomotives tend to run smoother and have better sounds than TMCC locomotives (Lionel, Atlas, etc). 

For DCS users, we strongly recommend getting Barry Broskowitz book on DCS. We have found it to be a huge help. It has given us a lot of insight into DCS and somewhat into TMCC/Legacy. We have the DCS wifi with the premium app on our smart devices. I actually prefer using the app over the DCS remote. With my recent purchase of a Lionel Legacy Cab Forward locomotive, I'm probably going to add a Lionel Legacy Cab2. Even though my Cab Forward runs great being operated through the DCS connected to a TMCC base, I want to unlock the rest of the features having a Legacy system will afford me.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Maxum said:


> You know what they say about opinions, but here's mine.
> 
> My dad an I both run DCS and TMCC together. We run the TMCC through the DCS systems. We have found that most of the time the issues we have with DCS or TMCC are actually our own fault. Rarely do we have an issue we didn't cause. We have found DCS and TMCC to both have their respective advantages and disadvantages. We have found MTH locomotives tend to run smoother and have better sounds than TMCC locomotives (Lionel, Atlas, etc).
> 
> For DCS users, we strongly recommend getting Barry Broskowitz book on DCS. We have found it to be a huge help. It has given us a lot of insight into DCS and somewhat into TMCC/Legacy. We have the DCS wifi with the premium app on our smart devices. I actually prefer using the app over the DCS remote. With my recent purchase of a Lionel Legacy Cab Forward locomotive, I'm probably going to add a Lionel Legacy Cab2. Even though my Cab Forward runs great being operated through the DCS connected to a TMCC base, I want to unlock the rest of the features having a Legacy system will afford me.


There is a difference between TMCC locos and Legacy locos #1 being the sound. Even though TMCC and Legacy have the same basic functions, Legacy has a lot more features and runs smoother than TMCC.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

HenryL said:


> A question somewhat related to the topic. If you do not own any Legacy locos what additional features, if any, does the legacy control system offer? I understand the CAB-1 TMCC system is old and obsolete, just seeking to understand the difference in the platform.


I wouldn't say Cab-1 is obsolete. I have a friend who uses Cab-1 and he very happy with it. These days you need Powermaster Bridge in order for it to communicate with a Legacy base or you can purchase a Cab-1L. The difference is Cab-1 operates on 27MHz that's why you need the Powermaster Bridge. Cab-1L operates on 2.4GHz then you can operate with any Legacy system or you can use the base that comes with it. There's always the option of buying the Cab-2 which is full Legacy. I have both. I started with Cab-1L and it works great. It will operate any TMCC or Legacy engine you just won't get the full features with the Legacy locos. I just bought a Cab-2 at York last October.


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## Hyvonen1 (Nov 12, 2017)

I just purchased LIONEL #990 LEGACY COMMAND SET control 1.52 VERSION 6-14295 They said it was the NEW NEWEST RELEASE! Want to buy 2 fastrack turnouts that can be controlled wirelessly. How do I know that they are controllable
in legacy Wifi or Bluetooth?

Also do I need to buy the Wifi adapter?

I may have posted in wrong spot Sorry


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Hyvonen1 said:


> I just purchased LIONEL #990 LEGACY COMMAND SET control 1.52 VERSION 6-14295 They said it was the NEW NEWEST RELEASE! Want to buy 2 fastrack turnouts that can be controlled wirelessly. How do I know that they are controllable
> in legacy Wifi or Bluetooth?
> 
> Also do I need to buy the Wifi adapter?
> ...


Just so you know 1.52v is not the newest version 1.60v is, but it will work fine with 1.52. Plus Legacy does not support Bluetooth, but it does support WIFI. You will need a LCS WIFI controller to connect to your Legacy base.


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## Hyvonen1 (Nov 12, 2017)

*V1.6 6-14295 Legacy*

i cancelld to V1.52 order. know I saw a V1.6 but still looking 'cause can't find now

Do you know where it might be sold. I did see last night, but can't find now


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

DennyM said:


> Plus Legacy does not support Bluetooth, but it does support WIFI.


True up to this year. Stuff in the 2017 catalog with a couple of exceptions will actually run with BlueTooth. I think the K4 and probably one or two more didn't get BT this go, all future Legacy will have BT capability.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Hyvonen1 said:


> i cancelld to V1.52 order. know I saw a V1.6 but still looking 'cause can't find now
> 
> Do you know where it might be sold. I did see last night, but can't find now


I bought my Cab-2 1.6v from Charles Ro. It was still in the master box.

http://www.charlesro.com/


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## Hyvonen1 (Nov 12, 2017)

They show V1.54 on the Web? Did you go to the store? How did you specify V1.6


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Hyvonen1 said:


> They show V1.54 on the Web? Did you go to the store? How did you specify V1.6


Here is a link to the Legacy software versions. When I bought my controller last year it came with 1.6, right now they're up to 1.61

https://www.lionelsupport.com/LegacyBaseReturn/


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Hyvonen1 said:


> They show V1.54 on the Web? Did you go to the store? How did you specify V1.6


I bought at York train show. When I unpacked it and set it up, it was 1.6v. They also have the modules to reload it if something happens. I updated the Club Cab-2 and one of the club member's Cab-2 to 1.6v. If 1.54v is all that's available that's fine. It's not the end of the world if you don't have 1.6v. You can always update it later. You should call them. They're good people and will help you.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Legacy base current version is 1.60, the CAB2 current version is 1.61. The bump in the CAB2 was to accommodate a unique configuration using the LCS Sensor car and TMCC locomotives.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The Legacy base current version is 1.60, the CAB2 current version is 1.61. The bump in the CAB2 was to accommodate a unique configuration using the LCS Sensor car and TMCC locomotives.


I've updated the software in my TIU/handset myself and that was pretty easy to do. Is the Legacy base and Cab2 easy to update as well?


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Maxum said:


> I've updated the software in my TIU/handset myself and that was pretty easy to do. Is the Legacy base and Cab2 easy to update as well?


Pretty easy, it takes about ten minutes.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Feeling like a troublemaker this morning, I will again jump in and observe that there is only one control system that can run_ everything,_ from pre-war Marx and Lionel to DCS, TMCC, Legacy, MTH, Lionel, Atlas, WBB, 3rd Rail, Kusan, etc.* That, and its simplicity, makes conventional my choice. Plus, those big hulking Z4000 and particularly the ZW-L with its blue lighting and meters, and great big levers on each side, just look so much cooler than a brick and a walkie-talkie with a bunch of buttons on it!


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

DennyM said:


> Pretty easy, it takes about ten minutes.


Great! I picked up a CAB2 along with a Legacy base recently and it has version 1.52 in it. I'll get the the latest version from Lionel and update it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> Feeling like a troublemaker this morning


Are we gonna' have to censure you Lee?


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

You’re not a troublemaker, Lee. It’s just another reason that there’s no wrong way to enjoy the hobby!


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

As a newbie, I'm keeping the powder dry and staying with conventional for now. I've been trying to learn as much as I can about both systems. Both Legacy and DCS remotes seem kind of clunky and old school. It seems like it's only a matter of time before both manufacturers get rid of proprietary remotes and have apps only. I think MTH DCS offers that now with the TIU and WIU (or soon the Explorer unit). Does Legacy have the ability to operate without the Lionel remote?


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Feeling like a troublemaker this morning, I will again jump in and observe that there is only one control system that can run_ everything,_ from pre-war Marx and Lionel to DCS, TMCC, Legacy, MTH, Lionel, Atlas, WBB, 3rd Rail, Kusan, etc.* That, and its simplicity, makes conventional my choice. Plus, those big hulking Z4000 and particularly the ZW-L with its blue lighting and meters, and great big levers on each side, just look so much cooler than a brick and a walkie-talkie with a bunch of buttons on it!


Well-stated and right on, Lee! Conventional control runs everything and is trouble-free. :appl: :thumbsup:


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## Hyvonen1 (Nov 12, 2017)

Will the williams "Amtrak (Maintenance Of Way) - Operating Coal Dump Car" operate with the 
Legacy system and the lionel operating track


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

beachhead2 said:


> As a newbie, I'm keeping the powder dry and staying with conventional for now. I've been trying to learn as much as I can about both systems. Both Legacy and DCS remotes seem kind of clunky and old school. It seems like it's only a matter of time before both manufacturers get rid of proprietary remotes and have apps only. I think MTH DCS offers that now with the TIU and WIU (or soon the Explorer unit). Does Legacy have the ability to operate without the Lionel remote?


Legacy and DCS are not old school just yet. Lionel has WIFI and Bluetooth if you like that kind of thing. They will eventually do away with the current remotes. It easier for me to handle the remote. I tried the WIFI and it was not comfortable to hold the Ipad or whatever it's called I'll stay with my Cab-2.



Hyvonen1 said:


> Will the williams "Amtrak (Maintenance Of Way) - Operating Coal Dump Car" operate with the
> Legacy system and the lionel operating track


Only if you have ERR (Electric Railroad) boards installed then you can use Legacy or Cab-1L Legacy. Williams engines are all conventional. I have six, two have ERR boards.


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

Traindiesel said:


> . . . *there’s no wrong way to enjoy the hobby!*


And there you have it.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hyvonen1 said:


> Will the williams "Amtrak (Maintenance Of Way) - Operating Coal Dump Car" operate with the
> Legacy system and the lionel operating track


The Lionel operating track is strictly a conventional operation piece. You can obviously wire it to a SC-2 or ASC and operate it in a TMCC/Legacy environment.


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## Chooo Chooo Charlie (Jun 4, 2021)

PatKn said:


> As you probably noticed, this is a topic that if you ask 4 people you get 5 opinions. I think both systems have their followers and both are probably equally good. I like MTH engines and so have a DCS system which I like. My club is installing DCS and will probably add Legacy later. We started with DCS because we have mostly MTH engines. Take in all the opinions, try out the systems at your LHS and make a choice that is best for your needs. Good luck and happy railroading.


Great to read others opinions here,then make up your own mind as to what you prefer,great read!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You did note the last reply was three and a half years ago, right? I suspect the OP got his answer.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks John. Choo Choo is right, a good read is a good read. I enjoyed the thread. Allow me to tell my
little story about A-B-A set I bought used off the forum. First I only run my O scale conventional. I have a big
DCC system for my HO. Anywho on the set, they were TMCC and seller left TMCC turned on. And the cruise.
Engines would run stop and back up but no matter throttle setting always same speed. I had no idea. Seller helped me out and told me where to find manual on line. With just my ZW I was able to turn TMCC off. Then no problems.
My MTH, Lionel run fine on conventional.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

You did not completely define best, but if you go with Legacy you should be covered for any obsolescence issue, at least if you stick with Bluetooth-Legacy. I think Legacy is better than DCS but as stated both have advantages, Legacy just has more.
But while Lioncheif (LC) and Lioncheif Plus (LC+) products are entry level, note that the LC+ system is not. It has morphed into the Blue-tooth side of the new Bluetooth-Legacy system. The latest Bluetooth-Legacy system will run in conventional, Legacy, or in bluetooth mode with either a smartphone app or Lionels' Universal Controller (they will oerate LC, LC+, _and _Bluetooth Legacy locos). In my opinion Bluetooth is easier to use for basic running trains, etc., a bit cheaper to buy tyhe controllers and all, and it is much easier to set up and learn.


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