# Two quick questions from New & Confused...



## KCD (May 2, 2010)

I got a couple of questions I cannot answer for myself, and I can't find anything to help me on the Internet. I hope someone here can...

1.) Being somewhat mathematically inept, I need to know how much "N" gauge track it would take to model 700 feet (and what it the formula that gets me there)?

2.) If I want the standard "N" gauge 9mm track to represent a 3' narrow gauge track, how much would I have to enlarge the scenery items for such a concept (and what is that formula)?

Thanks for your help

KCD


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

KCD,

Welcome to the forum! I'm going to begin by telling you I know nothing about N scale; others will follow who actually know something, though. In the meantime, N gauge refers to the distance between the rails of your track: "gauge" is not an interchangeable term with "scale". N gauge is 9 mm between rails. N scale refers to the ratio in size between the real thing (1:1, or 1 inch= 1 inch) and your model: 1:148 to 1:160 are sizes that run on N gauge tracks. Once you know which one you have, you can do the calculations. If you have 1:148, then 1 inch on your engine equates to 148 inches on the real thing. In like manner, 1 inch of your track equates to 148 inches of real track. 700 feet = 700 x 12 inches: 8400 inches. 8400 divided by 148 = 56.76 inches of track at 1:148 scale. So, if you're running an engine that's made to 1:148 scale, your 700 feet of (real life) straight track = 56.76 inches of scale track. To get the right formula, though, we need to know what size (scale) train you are running on that 9mm (N gauge) track. Gauge is space between rails; scale is size of train based on how much you reduce (scale it down) from the original.


Question 2: restated: if 9mm represents 3 feet, what scale am I modeling? Okay, let's start with a request for others to proof my math. *L* If one foot = 304.8mm, then 3 feet = 914.4 mm. Divide that by your 9mm width and my math says you are modeling 1:101.6 scale. In other words, 1 inch on your layout represents 101.6 inches in real life. 

I'd suggest waiting for a second person to look at my math and agree or burst out laughing, but that's what I get. Best of luck on your layout!


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## KCD (May 2, 2010)

Reckers,

Your fine answers have stimulated a third that I hadn't even considered. How do I determine what scale the equipment is and if I were trying to recreate a narrow gauge, would I be better at 1:148 0r 1:160 (my guess would be 1:160)?

Thanks for your post, your math looks good to me, but what do I know? I will wait for more posts before doing anything rash.

KCD


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Quick read on my end ...

Reck, math looks spot on. A+

The only snippet I'll add is that your stated 1:101.6 scale is pretty close to 1:96 scale, which is a convenient 1/8" (model) =1'-0" (real).

KCD -- I'm not quite sure I follow your 2nd post exactly, but in general, real narrow-gage trains tend to be smaller in physical size than their standard-gage cousins. As such, if you're trying to model narrow gage, your "equipment" should tend to look somewhat larger, relative to the track rail-to-rail gage distance. I.e., standard HO trains are 1:87, but narrow gauge is often modeled as "On3" running on the same rail-to-rail gage as HO, but at a SCALE ratio of 1:48.

TJ


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## KCD (May 2, 2010)

TJ,

What I was trying to say was that since there are no models crafted for narrow gauge, could I enlarge the surroundings and use standard "N" Gauge stock with bigger buildings, higher mountains, etc.? Atlas mates a very nice Shay locomotive (although I don't know if it is 1:48 or 1:60 yet) and that would be an acceptable starting point. Seems to me, the most difficult thing to model would be a locomotive. I would think rolling stock could be altered and buildings and scenery could be made larger to keep the concept alive. Am I wrong? Thanks for your input, by the way.

KCD


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

KCD,

I believe in quick, easy solutions---I'm quite lazy, you see. I would offer this suggestion: ask the N scale people if they are using 1:48 or 1:60. My guess is they are generally using one over the other: that means, availability will be better and price should be lower. Going forward, that will save you a lot of time and headaches. TJ is saying that if you use an existing scale of 1:96, it's close enough that only bugs will notice the difference (great observation, TJ!). Again, that lets you buy off-the-shelf instead of handcrafting every item. 1:96 scale means that a measurement of 1 foot on the real engine will measure 1/8" on your model railroad engine. It would be advantageous to have an easy conversion to work with.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

If I understand TJ correctly (and no one ever does!), he's observing that in real life, narrow gauge railroads give the appearance of an oversized engine or car on a somewhat narrow track----hence, narrow gauge.


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

tjcruiser said:


> I.e., standard HO trains are 1:87, but narrow gauge is often modeled as "On3*0*" running on the same rail-to-rail gage as HO, but at a SCALE ratio of 1:48.
> 
> TJ


Fixed 

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And for Reckers and the OP, there is apparently a 1:101 scale called TTn3 and it runs on N gauge track...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

B&M -- thanks for the typo fix! :thumbsup:

KCD (& Reck) -- Basically, I think everyone's thinking here is on the same page. If you can find a nice narrow gauge loco that you like (Atlas or otherwise), then the proportions of that already tackle your biggest hurdle. See what scale (not gauge) to which the loco is made, then target your scenery (buildings, etc.) close to that same scale factor.

If 1:48, same as 1/4" = 1'-0"

If 1:60, pretty close to 3/16" = 1'-0" (or 1:64, precisely).

Etc.

Good luck!

TJ


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## KCD (May 2, 2010)

OK, this for all: TJ, Reckers and B&M...

If I understand what you are saying, to do a narrow gauge properly, I would have to fine a way to make a regular "N" gauge train run on "Z" gauge track? At least that's what the Internet pendants say... I wonder if it is worth the effort. First of all, I find it hard to believe that 1:160 stock would not topple on "Z" track. Secondly, I think it would look crazy. But, I could be wrong, after all I am a rank beginner with nothing to run in circles or ovals.

Thanks, guys, for leading me along. Believe it or not, I am picking stuff up. I wouldn't be asking these questions unless one of you had stated emphatically that I should determine what kind of a railroad I'd like to have. You are helping me do just that, one compromise at a time. I appreciate it.

KCD


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## KCD (May 2, 2010)

TJ,

I have just spent the better part of an hour on the Internet trying to find the scale of the Atlas "N" gauge two truck Shay. No one, not even Atlas, provides that data. All refer to this locomotive as, "An N scale model of a two-truck Shay." I can find no measurements or scale other than the one Atlas used, see quote. Where does this leave me?

KCD


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Boston&Maine said:


> Fixed
> 
> ----------
> 
> And for Reckers and the OP, there is apparently a 1:101 scale called TTn3 and it runs on N gauge track...


B&M, thanks for the input! So, if you really want accuracy, find a TTn3 set of cars to run on N scale...or just relax and model it all with N scale stuff, which is my recommendation. Too much accuracy makes one fret. *L*


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

*KCD is this the one?*

Check to the right of the advertisement for scale.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10101810


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

KCD said:


> OK, this for all: TJ, Reckers and B&M...
> 
> If I understand what you are saying, to do a narrow gauge properly, I would have to fine a way to make a regular "N" gauge train run on "Z" gauge track? At least that's what the Internet pendants say... I wonder if it is worth the effort. First of all, I find it hard to believe that 1:160 stock would not topple on "Z" track. Secondly, I think it would look crazy. But, I could be wrong, after all I am a rank beginner with nothing to run in circles or ovals.
> 
> KCD


If you want to model a narrow _gauge_ N _scale_, then yes, you will buy Nn3 _scale_ cars and run them on Z _gauge_ track...

If you want to use N _gauge_ track though to model a narrow _gauge_, then your cars will need to be bigger than N _scale_ (which would be the 1:96 or 1:101 _scales_ that the others were talking about)...


More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modelling_3'_gauge_railroads
http://www.nn3.org/
http://www.nn3.com/links.jsp


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## KCD (May 2, 2010)

Stillakid...

Thanks! Can't tell you how much time I spent looking for that 1:160. Greatl7y appreciated.

KCD


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## KCD (May 2, 2010)

B&M,

You have introduced something new to the mix. What is Nn3 (scale and gauge)? Is there a company making these little creatures?

Thanks,

KCD


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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

KCD said:


> B&M,
> 
> You have introduced something new to the mix. What is Nn3 (scale and gauge)? Is there a company making these little creatures?
> 
> ...


Nn3 is the "official" narrow gauge N scale... To break it down, it (Nn3) stands for N scale narrow 3' gauge... I edited my post, the last two links have some manufacturers...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Boston&Maine said:


> If you want to model a narrow _gauge_ N _scale_, then yes, you will buy Nn3 _scale_ cars and run them on Z _gauge_ track...
> 
> If you want to use N _gauge_ track though to model a narrow _gauge_, then your cars will need to be bigger than N _scale_ (which would be the 1:96 or 1:101 _scales_ that the others were talking about)...


KCD,

That's a really clear, concise summary from B&M. In considering which option is best for you, I'd urge you to first explore which scale (not track gauge) offers the larger selection of manufacturers, available locos, rolling stock, etc.

I'd hate to see you invest (time, money) into a specific path, only to find that your future expansions are limited as to what's available.

That's not a leading statement from me in any way. I'm rather clueless on these small scales. But "do your research and planning first" is my point, I guess.

Cheers,
TJ


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## KCD (May 2, 2010)

Boston&Maine said:


> Nn3 is the "official" narrow gauge N scale... To break it down, it (Nn3) stands for N scale narrow 3' gauge... I edited my post, the last two links have some manufacturers...


B&M,

Being new to this hobby, this forum, and to all its people (who have all been most helpful), I could find lo edited links of manufacturers. Sorry, but this is all new and I'm still a bit confused.

Thanks,

KCD


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

KCD said:


> I could find lo edited links of manufacturers.


"lo" ???  "no" ???

If your looking for the links, look up above about 6 posts to where he says "More Info" ... click on underlined http info.

Cheers,

TJ


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