# New and need help



## bxtzd3 (Jan 3, 2012)

hello. i am happy to have found this forum. i have a flyer , 316, that only works in reverse. all the fingers are in-tacked and the barrel moves well. but when its in forward it does not move. lights on but thats it. any help would be great. i did spray contact cleaner and it didnt help.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, bxtzd3...I hope I spelled that correctly! Look for a little lever on the bottom of your tender (the coal car). That is your reversing lever. It can be used to lock your train into operating just forward...or just reverse. My guess is that your lever is simply locked in reverse, so try moving it to a different position. If that doesn't solve the problem, open the tender and see what the lever does when you move it: you may have something frozen into position that is supposed to move when the lever allows it to.

Best wishes, and get back with us if that doesn't do the job. In fact, get back with us anyway---we always welcome new members!


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Welcome..And if I remember correctly, Jim Thorpe is in PA, and I believe it was also known as Mauch Chunk(SP)? My family came from that area right after WWII. I still have family in Pottsville, Scranton, and Freeland. Nice area of PA.


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## bxtzd3 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry about the delayed response. I know about the lever. And in all positions it happen. When all the way to forward the lights on but it does not move forward. It hums nice but does not move. I did use contact leaner and it did not help. so im not sure whats next. 

And yes jim thorpe is chaunck. Great place to visit.


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## bxtzd3 (Jan 3, 2012)

*update*

ok so i have no idea what i did but the train is now going forward and reverse. what i did do was switch the 2 clips, they have springs under them in the engine, from one to the other. i did notice that one spring is a little crappy looking. so the train smokes and lights in reverse now and not forward. i switched the 2 wires back and its the same issue. im guessing this spring may have something to do with it. any info would be great. i guess smoking in reverse is fine but would be real cool forward.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Bxt, since your locomotive will move and will smoke, my guess is you have a wiring problem. Those brass studs with the springs have the brushes to your electric motor beneath the springs. My first guess is that the drum or fingers in your reverse unit have a carbon build-up. Since your engine is AC, swapping those wires shouldn't accomplish much. Here is a source for wiring diagrams: http://www.rfgco.com/wiringdiagrams.html

My suggestion is to carefully dismantle the reverse unit, clean and polish the drum and fingers, adjusting the fingers for good contact. They may even need replacing. That reverse unit is not allowing the current to move to the engine forward, and not allowing it to go to the smoke unit in forward. In reverse, it is passing the current, though. I believe you'll find that is the source of your problem.


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## bxtzd3 (Jan 3, 2012)

let me ask this. being that i did clean it with contact cleaner and it look pretty clean, for a 70 year old engine, does that spring need to be strong to conduct power to the smoke unit? like i said it only went in reverse before today and the only thing i did was mess with those connections. unless the contact cleaner worked its way in over the few days since i did it. thank you for the reply and help. i did find that web page early on. but not until today did i realize it was a 5 wire set up i needed.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Bx, cleaning is a good first step, but you have to also have the fingers actually touching the drum to make the connection. If they are worn or have carbon built up beneath them, the current won't flow. I've seen some fingers that actually have tiny holes worn through them, and drums that have a groove worn into the copper surface where he finger would touch it. My suggestion is to remove and polish the drum with a Dremel tool to insure it's clean and smooth, just as you would the armature in the locomotive's motor. The same applies to the inner surfaces of the fingers or the brushes in the locomotive's motor. Spraying them with a cleaning fluid is good, but it won't cure an uneven or carbon-coated drum or finger surface.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Reckers said:


> Bx, cleaning is a good first step, but you have to also have the fingers actually touching the drum to make the connection. If they are worn or have carbon built up beneath them, the current won't flow. I've seen some fingers that actually have tiny holes worn through them, and drums that have a groove worn into the copper surface where he finger would touch it. My suggestion is to remove and polish the drum with a Dremel tool to insure it's clean and smooth, just as you would the armature in the locomotive's motor. The same applies to the inner surfaces of the fingers or the brushes in the locomotive's motor. Spraying them with a cleaning fluid is good, but it won't cure an uneven or carbon-coated drum or finger surface.


Be careful using a dremel on that drum. You can go overboard with it and actually nick the small teeth on one side. I like to use a piece of scotch brite pad, a red or green, to polish up the drum.On the armature, reface it by chucking the armature up in a drill press, and using 2000 wet or dry paper, flatten the surface by running the paper on the wet/dry paper. There is a fixture you can build very easily for this purpose. Just cut a small piece of wood, about 3"x3", and drill a small hole in the center, just a little larger than the shoulder on the armature. Glue down a piece of 2000 or a little coarser paper, (but be careful), insert the armature into the drill press and lower away.Use slight pressure and check often to see if the armature surface is starting to flatten out. It will be easy to tell. On the fingers, I use paper at about 600 grit to scrape off any carbon build-up. They're kinda fragile so go easy. They can be replaced as they are sold at a lot of places.Apply just a small film of oil on the "axles" of the drum, and associated moving parts. If you use too much oil, it will pick up dirt and then you'll get a sticky e-unit.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

For the armature surfaces, I have a 14", 6 HP grinder with coarse and fine wheels that let me do the entire surface in about .03 seconds. Any longer than that, though, and there's nothing left of it.


Okay, I'm just kidding.


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## bxtzd3 (Jan 3, 2012)

ok i have the track, from ebay, and the train on it. it moves around slower then i think it shoul. also you can feel that there is now power at times through the trans. i think its the next to be replaced.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

bxtzd3 said:


> ok i have the track, from ebay, and the train on it. it moves around slower then i think it shoul. also you can feel that there is now power at times through the trans. i think its the next to be replaced.


Sometime during this year I'll be visiting my cousin in Freeland, and if the need arises, I would be happy to stop by and help with your trains. Just a thought, as I know people have to be aware of the internet, and such things.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

bxtzd3 said:


> ok i have the track, from ebay, and the train on it. it moves around slower then i think it shoul. also you can feel that there is now power at times through the trans. i think its the next to be replaced.


Clean your track with a bright boy, don't use sandpaper. Oil your locomotive's wheel axles and linkage; it might help.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

bxtzd3 said:


> ok i have the track, from ebay, and the train on it. it moves around slower then i think it shoul. also you can feel that there is now power at times through the trans. i think its the next to be replaced.




BX, I think the next step is cleaning: NO STEEL WOOL, NO SANDPAPER. Those will ruin your track with a zillion tiny scratches, and the steel wool sheds little fragments that the magnetic field will pick up. Once it does, the steel gets into your armature and gears, chewing them up.

Best items are all available at Walmart: GooGone (automotive), Scotchbrite pads (hardware), and 90% Isopropyl acohol (pharmacy). Use Googone on the Scotchbrite to scrub your track and the metal wheels on your locomotive, then use the alcohol to wipe off the Googone and the gunk it dissolved.

After that, you need to do two more things. The first is to take your motor apart to clean and polish the armature and the gears, and relubricate the gears. Old grease turns into something like clay, and you want to dig all that gunk out. Replace it with either white lithium grease or oil----everyone has a favorite choice they'll recommend. Also lube all the areas that move: axles, the place where the rods move against the wheels and so on. Running slow is usually caused by poor lube or dirty brushes and armature.

Finally, AF engines run best when they're warmed up. Once you've done the clean and lube, park it on a clean cloth or paper towel overnight---you want the grease and oil to drip onto something besides your track. Then fire it up and run it for about 20 minutes. You'll probably notice it suddenly gets faster after about3 to 5 minutes: that means it's warming up enough to melt the grease back into a lubricant.

Best wishes on it,


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Reckers said:


> BX, I think the next step is cleaning: NO STEEL WOOL, NO SANDPAPER. Those will ruin your track with a zillion tiny scratches, and the steel wool sheds little fragments that the magnetic field will pick up. Once it does, the steel gets into your armature and gears, chewing them up.
> 
> Best items are all available at Walmart: GooGone (automotive), Scotchbrite pads (hardware), and 90% Isopropyl acohol (pharmacy). Use Googone on the Scotchbrite to scrub your track and the metal wheels on your locomotive, then use the alcohol to wipe off the Googone and the gunk it dissolved.
> 
> ...


I like vaseline for my gear needs.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm a lithium guy, but that's mostly because that was what I was taught and never found a problem with it. I suspect that's what helped most of our members choose: they try something, it works and they stick with what does.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

flyernut said:


> I like vaseline for my gear needs.


It just occurred to me....using vaseline, you'll never have chapped gears.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Reckers said:


> It just occurred to me....using vaseline, you'll never have chapped gears.


It's also a great moisturizer for dry wheels, silly!!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

True, and it gives them that healthy glow!


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