# Lionel 259e Prewar rebuild



## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

finally managed to find some time and picked up this Lionel 259e from Ebay. i paid 35 bucks for it. Shes in rough shape but I've bought alot worse. the engine was totally seized from all the years of grease build up. but after a tear down it cleaned up pretty nicely. i tested the e unit and to my surprise it was working so i took it apart and replaced the wires. upon inspection of the motor i noticed the commutator had an open so i re soldered the wire and now we have power. i got it running last night now onto the body work. here are some pictures of my progress so far. i do need to find a new boiler front, rear trailing truck and the Lionel emblems on the side of the locomotive but that shouldn't be to hard.


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

Looking good!. These have to be one of my favorite pre-war tinplate Lionel engines. I think I am up to having 6 of them. I have had good luck at various shows finding them really inexpensive and they run forever. What color are you going to paint this one?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

i honestly wish i had a little more history on them to see the different color variants. i think ill keep it original with the gun metal grey. i am having trouble with removing the pipes that go up to the steam dome. any tips?


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

I know of the gun metal gray and black. There are some forum users that have painted them two tone red and black, Lionel Orange and Purple, and so forth. The piping is a pain and you night try a little wd40 to loosen them up.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice pu! Makes you remove the dome first, I think I just pulled them off from the middle with needle nose pliers The hardest partial be pulling apart the tabs that hold the thing together. Carefully not to break them! Parts an be had at the train tender, although the emblems stickers instead of the original plates. Its actually in nice shape ive seen worse too. Hopefully tj see this, here did a bunch of them. I know one thing , don't paint it chrome!


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## DirtPiper (Dec 24, 2013)

Welcome to the club!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

When you put the tender back together, don't bend the tabs over. Give two and only two of them a gentle twist. That will hold the tender together very well.

I recommend lubing everything with 5W-20 motor oil. It never dries out or gets gummy. Don't use lithium grease, 3 in 1 oil, light machine oil, sewing machine oil, or most greases.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

To answer the question on color, the original issue of 1932 was gloss black, and the gunmetal gray didn't show up until 1936 thru 1938. The book (Doyle's) says that in 1936 there were uncatalogued versions that were made in black from 36' to 1940. So, there were only two colors for the 259/259E. Anything else, and it would be a repaint by an owner.

As far as taking the piping off; Very Very carefully, to avoid breaking it at the bends. I don't have the 259, but I do have the 258 and a couple of 1681's that have piping. My suggestion is to completely disassemble the complete body, into parts i.e. cab off frame & boiler, boiler off the frame, etc.. Especially if you plan on stripping and repainting it. Take the smoke stack off, the sand domes off, and then and only then I would gently squeeze the boiler bottom toward itself, to give you a chance to lift the piping off the bottom of the boiler. That would allow you to take the upper part off from where the steam domes were. The piping is brittle, and tends to snap, if you try to bend it out. Just go slow, and all should be good.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

i worked on it a little bit tonight. i was able to remove the remaining piping and domes...only broke one tab :/ none the less it will have to be added to the list of things to order. but at least i can move on to stripping the cab. i also started to strip the tender


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

Nice job. Since you are stripping this one you should try a two tone paint job. Gray and Black maybe or tow tone blue.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Taking the body off did help, tj has a good thread on this rig. I cant find it, but this one is good http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10217&highlight=259 and this one is mine http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=22872&highlight=259, so you can see, you'll have a great finished project


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Sorry forgot to add, some of the domes are copper or brass underneath, some are not, same with the rodswe had the ddiscussion somewhere. So so domes rods can be polished like on my thread and some cant. Check on the underside of the domes if you want that look. Doc, did that tender come with the 259 at some point, if so that could date it? I only saw it with the other tender? I don't know.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The dating should be 1936 to 1938 if it is gunmetal gray. I don't think I saw which tender he has...1689t or 2689t (electric coupler), but either way, it puts it at 1936-1938. Doyle's book lists the type III with 1689T tender, the type IV with electric coupler 2689T, and all the rest are BLACK locos and tenders. The 1932 first issue had a 259T type I, and in 1934 type II had a die-cast 262T tender, then they went to his style tender, and the coupler would tell whether it is the 1689T or 2689T.

The boiler front might be hard to find at a cheap price, and it should be the same as a 258 boiler front, just change the number tag. I bought a near complete 258, that needed the usual strip/rebuild, etc., but it was missing the boiler front. I lurked in the woods on ebay and found a messed up shell, WITH boiler front, to get what I needed. I still have the bulk of the shell, just sitting in a box, but now missing the boiler front.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thats why I asked, didn't know they came with the coffin style tenders. Good to know My chrome experiment came from a 259 I saw on e bay. After some research, and losing the auction, I found out some chrome engines were made for either bigwigs or big sellers. This is not unique to the 259. So there was a chrome one too. Rare, probably UN cataloged. It was sweet im sad now......


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

i'm onto the painting process. i will be starting with the tender because i'm still waiting on my boiler front to come in. i checked the prewar paint guide that kalmbach has in the restoring prewar trains and i cant find the paint match for the gun metal grey. does anyone know what a good counterpart would be from rustoleum or krypton has to offer?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I used Krylon SuperMaxx gray primer first, followed by "Duplicolor" BGM-0344 Gunmetal spray, and both work well together, I.e. No alligator skin from different paints. Check my post "1688e twins from different mothers" to see my finished 1688E's with 1689W tenders.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I used duplo de 1651, its looks good for gunmetal, its a engine paint I got at Napa auto parts.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

update. i have everything primed and started painting. i started with the tender shell. let me know how you guys feel of this color.its a gun metal grey with a hint of metallic. my thought was the gunmetal grey to show its original color and the metallic for some modern day flare to help it stand out.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

So, let's finish it!!!! Looks great so far, but what paint did you opt for (brand?). I realized tonight, that I have to get another 1689 tender to restore and paint Black, for my Black 258 loco. Got to work through the restoration pile!!!!!

I'll guess Rustoleum Metallic Charcoal, #244228, am I close???


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

the paint was from rustoleum i forget the name ill take look tomorrow after work when i paint the cab of the locomotive


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks nice! Almost like a hammer paint similar on the Lionel accessories in a different color! I like it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Hey, NJ, Where do you live in NJ. I used to live in Holmdel not far from the Garden State Arts Center, now called the PNC Bank Arts Center. I moved to Central Florida in 1970. The major problem in Florida is no basements.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Servoguy,i didn't know you were from up here!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Actually, I am not "from" NJ. I was born in Terre Haute, Indiana. Moved to Connecticut when I was 1 year old. Moved to Kansas when I was 5. Moved to Illinois when I was 16. Went to engineering school in Terre Haute when I was 17. Moved to NJ when I graduated from engineering school at 21. First job was with Bell Labs in Holmdel, NJ. It was the worst job I ever had. The building in Holmdel that Bell Labs was in is now empty. It has room for about 8000 engineers. Moved to Orlando in 1970. So I am not sure where I am from.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

I live in Middletown which is right around the corner from holmdel


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I used to eat at a good restaurant in Middletown but I can't remember the name (Middlletown Inn?). Sal's Tavern in Red Bank is still in business. They had the best Italian sausage that you could imagine. We used to eat lunch there when I worked at Ft. Monmouth in the late '60s. I have traveled a fair amount and remember the good restaurants.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

i finished most of the painting on the main shell and this is the result. im pretty happy with it.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Was the paint metallic charcoal? Looks great so far!!


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

It's called soft flat iron.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I like the paint color, lookin' good.


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

I take it that this is one you used (Rustoleum Soft Iron #271473)
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-ca...universal/universal-flat-metallic-spray-paint

I notice on some reviews that people are having some problems with the new spray nozzles on these cans. Did you have any problems with yours ?

I also wonder if this is a replacement for Rustoleum #244228 metallic charcoal. I have found that the metallic charcoal is almost a perfect match for the prewar gunmetal gray
Robert


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

the nozzle was interesting to say the least. first it would shoot up than be fine than aim down. it wasn't shooting blotchy you just had to watch the trajectory. the paint still has to cure but i did a little bit of a mock up just to show you guys how it looks.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Looking great so far, but I think someone wants to get it done quicker.......as far as the paint, that is just one of the reasons I don't like Rustoleum. The other complaint is drying time compared to Duplicolor or Krylon. To each his own I guess, but I know about wanting to just get it finished, and see how it turned out. Did you have to settle on the circle L stickers, or get lucky with originals?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Yeah I'm going halt it here for now while the paint dries I'll pick it back up on Monday. I'm really hoping I can find some originals I haven't seen any on eBay. Maybe I'll call Hennings or Jeff at train tender


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Good luck trying to find originals, as I searched shortly after your post of parts needed, and didn't find anything yet. Fortunately I am working on two 258's, and biggest need was a boiler front, and correct rear wheels with linkage hubs. Bought a junk she'll that had boiler front, and found motor with wheels I needed. Got the wheels swapped out, but didn't have time to put motor in, and I need multiple sets of side rods for three locos.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

The 258s and the 259s have the same front with different number plates right?I still haven't found a boiler front yet.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Just sent you PM on boiler front


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Teledoc i did not receive any pms could you perhaps send it again?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Njoffroader, 258&259 boiler fronts are the same, as is majority of the body. Cab was modified to for "L" logo plate. The boiler front is on eBay with "Buy it Now"


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

okay here we go. teledoc i did finally receive your message but i think i may wait for the the 259e boiler front to pop up just so i dont have to change the number plate  so this is where its at right now. after wait what felt like forever for the paint to cure i was able to do some assembly. still need to go back and touch up a few spots i nicked from putting the pipes back in XD. but now im just waiting for the rear trailing truck and im going to keep my eyes open for the side stamps and my boiler front.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*two 259's on ebay*

I just spotted two cheap 259's on ebay, that you may want to take a look at. Both have the circle L and boiler fronts, and you would have extra parts from either one. I think one is starting at 9.99 the other at 10.00, but you have to add in the shipping. Its up to you what you want to do.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Lionel-...e-Toy-Train-/262068182268?hash=item3d047b1cfc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orig-1930s-...ation-Parts-/131613451791?hash=item1ea4c5e60f


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The paint came out great, that will be a really nice looking set when you get it all assembled. :thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

NJRailer ... you still out there? Did you ever get this 259E fully back together? Would love to see it!

TJ


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> NJRailer ... you still out there? Did you ever get this 259E fully back together? Would love to see it!
> 
> TJ



Hey tj long time,
So the locomotive still stands where I left off. I was able to track down a boiler front but unfortunately they sent me a 258 boiler. And I was never able to track down the side badges on the sides of the cab. I got busy wife rebuilding the house and the move and it just fell to the back burner. And being involved with the modular club I usually run all modern stuff


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I know the drill ... I just finished a couple of restoration projects that were on my shelf, collecting dust for some time.

If you do get so inspired ...

The 258 boiler front is identical to the 259 boiler front, except for the choice of insert: bezel ring for the 258, and cast lattern for the 259. You can swap out one for the other, if needed.

Jeff Kane at the Train Tender will surely have repro cast latterns, 259 "L" side badges, lenses and lens inserts for the boiler front, etc.

Someday. That's how the game works! I do hope you get her packaged up ... the paint rehab work was looking very nice!

Cheers,

TJ


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