# Number boards...



## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

I finally found the nerve to proceed with a first-time loco makeover. I'm converting a Soo Line GP9 to a TH&B GP9. I have carefully taken everything apart and placed all small parts in a tight lid container. My question....are the number boards just decals? I want to change the engine number to an actual TH&B number. I have a decal set but there are no number board decals on the sheet. So, if they are indeed just decals, then I can simply look for a decal sheet from any other road name that may have the engine number(s) I am looking for, right? Any tips on removing the original numbers/applying new numbers would be appreciated. This is new territory for me...and these parts are extremely small. Thanks.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Some decal sets had the number boards (black with white lettering all done), and some have only the individual numbers.....either will work.....

As for removing the old numbers,just scrap them off down to bare plastic with a sharp blade, then paint them back, then put the numbers on.....that’s what I would do anyway....


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

Old_Hobo said:


> Some decal sets had the number boards (black with white lettering all done), and some have only the individual numbers.....either will work.....
> 
> As for removing the old numbers,just scrap them off down to bare plastic with a sharp blade, then paint them back, then put the numbers on.....that’s what I would do anyway....


Thanks Hobo....I did a little searching and found what you have mentioned. Scraping off the old numbers will probably be the way to go. This is delicate work in N scale. I'm finding out that going slow, and a lot of patience, are the main tools of the trade. Two things that there was a shortage of in my toolbox in the past. I'm getting better at that.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

TommyB said:


> Thanks Hobo....I did a little searching and found what you have mentioned. Scraping off the old numbers will probably be the way to go. This is delicate work in N scale. I'm finding out that going slow, and a lot of patience, are the main tools of the trade. Two things that there was a shortage of in my toolbox in the past. I'm getting better at that.


TommyB;

To remove the old numbers you might soak the number boards in alcohol, or hot soapy water. If they are decals that may take them off, or at least loosen them. Scrapping them off is likely to scratch the plastic they are on. If all else fails, you could set your new numbers on a sheet of clear styrene, spray clear enamel over them, and then cut new number boards from the clear styrene.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

traction fan said:


> TommyB;
> 
> To remove the old numbers you might soak the number boards in alcohol, or hot soapy water. If they are decals that may take them off, or at least loosen them. Scrapping them off is likely to scratch the plastic they are on. If all else fails, you could set your new numbers on a sheet of clear styrene, spray clear enamel over them, and then cut new number boards from the clear styrene.
> 
> ...


I will definitely try the soaking method before I try the scraping method. I have some alcohol on hand. This might have sounded like a stupid question, but I wanted to be sure that the number boards were in fact decals. But realistically, what else could they be, I guess. I am talking about an N scale loco after all, which is all new to me, and these parts are quite delicate. I have just completed the new paint scheme, my first attempt at this kind of thing. I am satisfied with my effort. It's not perfect, IMO, but it went way better than I had imagined. It's an eye-opening experience working with these tiny things. The decals is the next step. Again, extremely small. Should be an experience. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I use a round xacto blade and lots of tenderness when I scrape.....the black paint used as a base coat will fill any scratches that do happen, and after the numbers are put on, you will never be able to tell.....that’s my experience anyway.....


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

TommyB said:


> I will definitely try the soaking method before I try the scraping method. I have some alcohol on hand. This might have sounded like a stupid question, but I wanted to be sure that the number boards were in fact decals. But realistically, what else could they be, I guess. I am talking about an N scale loco after all, which is all new to me, and these parts are quite delicate. I have just completed the new paint scheme, my first attempt at this kind of thing. I am satisfied with my effort. It's not perfect, IMO, but it went way better than I had imagined. It's an eye-opening experience working with these tiny things. The decals is the next step. Again, extremely small. Should be an experience. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.


TommyB;

There are no stupid questions except those that are not asked. Asking questions is how we learn the answers to the questions. Asking questions here is often how you learn more than one answer to the same question. For instance if you try soaking, and it doesn't work, them Old Hobo's suggestion about scraping may end up doing the trick. 

Did you work with a larger scale before getting into N-scale? If so, your reaction regarding "these tiny things' Is quite normal. I've been working in N-scale for about 40 years, but I had HO-scale at one time, and O-scale before that. With time, and practice, the scale becomes "normal" to you and the former, bigger, scales seem huge. Some of the smaller parts of an HO-scale locomotive aren't all that big either. 

The number boards may well be decals, but they could also be printed on. Today's computer printers, and even the traditional printing press can produce microscopic images. I worked as a field technician for 3M for many years, and one day in a training class related to printing, I showed the instructor a Micro-Trains N-scale boxcar with the 3M logo on it. I also pointed out the truly microscopic dimensional data on the side of the car and asked him if it had been printed on. He then went to consult other instructors. Collectively, they had decades of printing experience and, the consensuses was that the markings must have been printed on. Now this was long before laser printers, or inkjet printers existed. They couldn't answer my question as to how the delicate plastic boxcar shell had survived a trip through a printing press! The answer was a "windmill" an odd type of printing press made by the Heidelberg Co. It has a plate that just barely contacts the surface to be printed, and the car body could have been filled by a metal block to protect it.

Another possibility for those number boards is injection molding. Laser cut molds can produce incredibly small, but very clear, detail. It's possible that the numbers themselves are raised a tiny bit from the main surface of the number board. If this proves to be the case, you may need to decal a new piece of clear plastic, and cut out your own number boards. 

If the numbers are decals, you could use a decal solvent, like Solvaset, to soften them to the point that they wipe off with an artist's paint brush. A small paintbrush is also a handy tool for maneuvering decals into position. Some other tools that will make this job easier are an Optivisor, and a small modeler's vise or clamp to hold the number board in place while you work on it. 

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

Thanks traction fan. Yes, I used to be into HO scale, but even that was a long time ago, and I didn't get too far into it. Many starts and stops. Too many other hobbies and I was working full time as well. I do like your advice regarding picking up a modeller's vise. I've been soaking the number boards in alcohol since yesterday morning, so I will see what that does for me some time later today. And like you suggest, I can try some Micro Sol to soften them up. If those methods fail.....old hobo has the solution. I appreciate all replies. It's always good to get advice from experienced people when you are not 100% certain on how to proceed. Thanks.


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

I'm happy to report that after soaking the number board lenses in alcohol for about 24 hours, I was able to easily scrape off the number decals with my fingernail. 
Here are photos of the loco I am working on....before and after change of paint scheme. I purposely chose the Soo Line model because of the similar paint colors, but I painted everything anyway because, although similar, both the maroon and the cream are quite different, although it may not show that much in the photos. As I said before, this is my first attempt at changing a paint scheme and road name. Decals are next. Kinda nervous about that but everything I do here is a "first time" for me anyway.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

TommyB said:


> I'm happy to report that after soaking the number board lenses in alcohol for about 24 hours, I was able to easily scrape off the number decals with my fingernail.
> Here are photos of the loco I am working on....before and after change of paint scheme. I purposely chose the Soo Line model because of the similar paint colors, but I painted everything anyway because, although similar, both the maroon and the cream are quite different, although it may not show that much in the photos. As I said before, this is my first attempt at changing a paint scheme and road name. Decals are next. Kinda nervous about that but everything I do here is a "first time" for me anyway.
> 
> View attachment 551747
> ...


TommyB;

Your paint job looks very good! Did you use an airbrush?

The key to a good decaling job is preparation of the model, and following the directions that come with the decals. Have some Micro Sol, a small artist's paintbrush, paper towels and Q-tips handy too. An Optivisor will help you see the final alignment of the decal better.

To avoid having a very unrealistic shiny "halo" around the decal, the model needs a coat of shiny clear gloss sprayed on, and dried overnight, before trying to apply the decals. I use Tamiya "clear" gloss paint and an airbrush, but there are many other brands of model paint that will work.

I don't recommend using spray cans. There is so much chance of ruining the finish with too heavy a coat of clear paint. It can be done with a can, especially cans made specifically for models, as opposed to the Home Depot Rustoleum variety. However it takes practice and restraint. The can needs to be kept at least 12" away from the model, and in constant motion. Tamiya, and Testors, both sell their model paints in small spray cans, as well in liquid form.

Once the clear gloss has dried, follow the decal manufacturer's directions. Some say to let the decal soak in water until it floats clear off the paper. Others say let it get wet and then slide the decal off the paper backing, & directly onto the model. A small artist's paint brush, wet with plain water, is a great tool for moving a decal into place. Q-tips are good for placing next to the decal to soak the water out from under the decal. Make very sure you have the decal exactly where you want it before adding any Micro Sol. Once the solvent goes on DON'T TOUCH THE DECAL !
It will be soft enough to come apart very easily. Let it dry at least an hour before doing anything else to it.

If the decal is going over rivets, door edges, or other raised details, you may see that the decal did not snuggle down all the way over these details.
You can make it go down tighter by poking tiny holes in the decal film near these areas, using a needle, or the tip of a brand new #11 X-acto blade. Then add a single drop of Micro Sol to the area with the holes, and let the model sit for an hour. The decal film should snuggle down around the details. Once you're happy with how the decal looks, spray another coat of clear gloss over the model to hide the decal edges. Let this coat dry for several hours. If the model is too shiny, a coat of clear matte finish can be sprayed on to dull it down.

The tugboat model shown below had this treatment applied to the name "Olympia" on the bow. The decal has snuggled down into the "wood grain" detail of the plastic model so well that the name looks like it was painted onto a wooden boat. Click once to view the photo full size, then move the + sign cursor near the boat's name, and click again to see the "painted on wood" detail.

The little track maintenance shed at Cedar Falls has the Milwaukee Road herald, and "Route of the Olympian" signage on one end of it's "board & batten' walls. The graphics are an HO-scale boxcar decal repurposed for an N-scale shed. The shed also has full interior detail added.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


.


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

traction fan said:


> TommyB;
> 
> Your paint job looks very good! Did you use an airbrush?
> 
> ...





traction fan said:


> TommyB;
> 
> Your paint job looks very good! Did you use an airbrush?
> 
> ...


Thanks traction fan. Yes, I used an airbrush. You can see just a tiny bit of bleed with the maroon paint at the maksing tape line. It shows up more in the photo, but on the layout it's hardly noticable. Maybe I could lighten up on the spray next time. May have gone a bit too heavy.

I really appreciate the advice on how to do the decaling. I know exactly what you mean by the halo look. I built many model cars as a kid. I will follow all of your advice on this process, and I think I will rummage around to see if I may still have an old HO car sitting in a box, or failing that, a scrap piece of styrene or plastic from discarded building kits. I have a box full of junk from years ago that was slated for the landfill but didn't get there yet. And I have some model car kits that I picked up at a flea market a few years ago. There will be decals in there, so I will practice your techniques before I go ahead with my loco. Thanks again!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

TommyB said:


> Thanks traction fan. Yes, I used an airbrush. You can see just a tiny bit of bleed with the maroon paint at the maksing tape line. It shows up more in the photo, but on the layout it's hardly noticable. Maybe I could lighten up on the spray next time. May have gone a bit too heavy.
> 
> I really appreciate the advice on how to do the decaling. I know exactly what you mean by the halo look. I built many model cars as a kid. I will follow all of your advice on this process, and I think I will rummage around to see if I may still have an old HO car sitting in a box, or failing that, a scrap piece of styrene or plastic from discarded building kits. I have a box full of junk from years ago that was slated for the landfill but didn't get there yet. And I have some model car kits that I picked up at a flea market a few years ago. There will be decals in there, so I will practice your techniques before I go ahead with my loco. Thanks again!


TommyB;

Looking again at your painted model, I see the "bleed" where the handrail meets the cab. Frankly, I didn't even notice it the first time. 

One trick you can use the next time you want to mask a model, is to not use traditional masking tape.
Instead, use ordinary Scotch "magic tape", the kind used to wrap presents, or around the office. That tape is thinner than masking tape, and really gets down & seals the model. The adhesive on it is a little strong, so I stick the tape to my jeans a couple of times before applying it to the model.

Once the paint has dried for a few hours, I remove the tape by gently pulling it back over itself along the length of, and parallel to, the model.
Never pull any kind of tape used for masking perpendicularly, directly up away from the painted surface, of the model. Doing that can let the tape take some of your paint job with it.
Here's another tip:
The cylindrical cardboard cores from paper towels, or toilet paper, make very good "handles" for holding a loco, or car, shell for airbrushing.
Gently squeeze the cardboard cylinder into an oval shape that will just fit inside the shell. Insert the core into the shell, and it will expand just enough to hold the shell in place.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

traction fan said:


> TommyB;
> 
> Looking again at your painted model, I see the "bleed" where the handrail meets the cab. Frankly, I didn't even notice it the first time.
> 
> ...


A couple more good tips, traction fan....thanks. Using Scotch tape for masking is something I would not have thought of because of it's "grip", but your method of reducing the stickiness of it deserves some experimentation. My locomotive is ready for decaling but I am going to work on the skills discussed here for a bit before I go ahead. Finding the decals that I need for the TH&B is not an easy task, especially in N scale. Even with more popular road names, you run into "out of stock" often enough. I have a decal sheet for my TH&B which will do 2 locomotives. I have a CN switcher that I want to convert to TH&B as well, so the decal sheet is enough for both models but it also leaves no room for mistakes.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

TommyB said:


> A couple more good tips, traction fan....thanks. Using Scotch tape for masking is something I would not have thought of because of it's "grip", but your method of reducing the stickiness of it deserves some experimentation. My locomotive is ready for decaling but I am going to work on the skills discussed here for a bit before I go ahead. Finding the decals that I need for the TH&B is not an easy task, especially in N scale. Even with more popular road names, you run into "out of stock" often enough. I have a decal sheet for my TH&B which will do 2 locomotives. I have a CN switcher that I want to convert to TH&B as well, so the decal sheet is enough for both models but it also leaves no room for mistakes.


TommyB;

What does TH& B stand for? My guess would be Toronto, Hamilton, & Buffalo, But I am not sure. Decals for the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific are not available in N-scale at all, and even scarce in HO-scale. The more modern name, "Milwaukee Road", is a little easier to find, but not easy, except in HO.
There are two other possibilities for "masking tape." First is the 3M blue painter's tape, which masks as well as the old yellow/tan masking tape, but comes off more easily. The other is 3M "Post It" notes. They stick only lightly, so you would need a new one, and press down hard, but they would come off quite easily. Yes the "stick Scotch tape to your jeans a few times and then to the model" idea works quite well. I have used it successfully many times.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

> What does TH& B stand for? My guess would be Toronto, Hamilton, & Buffalo


That is correct.....


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

traction fan said:


> TommyB;
> 
> What does TH& B stand for? My guess would be Toronto, Hamilton, & Buffalo, But I am not sure. Decals for the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific are not available in N-scale at all, and even scarce in HO-scale. The more modern name, "Milwaukee Road", is a little easier to find, but not easy, except in HO.
> There are two other possibilities for "masking tape." First is the 3M blue painter's tape, which masks as well as the old yellow/tan masking tape, but comes off more easily. The other is 3M "Post It" notes. They stick only lightly, so you would need a new one, and press down hard, but they would come off quite easily. Yes the "stick Scotch tape to your jeans a few times and then to the model" idea works quite well. I have used it successfully many times.
> ...


Yes, Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo. Very common in the Niagara region where I grew up, and still reside.


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