# Literally in Reverse Today



## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Th e-unit on a NYC F3 (2333) is stuck in reverse. In one position (normal - forward,neutral reverse) it precedes turning power on and off thru nothing, nothing and reverse. In the other position forced in to constant reverse. The plunger plunges, the drum not dirty was cleaned anyway. The drum and wiring look okay and fingers - can't really see the without complete removal of e-unit. Any suggestions for a quick fix or at least getting in forward ? First time run in 55+ years, a little slow at first, oil speeded it up.

B


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, it almost has to be the E-Unit I would imagine. Is the drum actually turning as it cycles?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I'd explore John's question. If the drum is, in fact, turning as it should, then he should see cycles in multiples of 4 ... i.e., reverse (which functions) every 4th power/throttle cycle. Two of those cycles yields one full 8-point revolution of the drum, as you guys likely know.

If he's only getting reverse, I would strongly supsect and investigate the following:

It may be that one of the little contact fingers of the e-unit have inadvertently bent away from proper contact with the drum. It would likely be one of the top 2 (of 4) middle fingers, or one of the bottom 2 fingers. This would be consistent with "reverse only" symptoms.

Have a look, and let us know...

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

It is possible that the fingers are corroded in which case WD-40 should help. It will dissolve the corrosion. The fingers are somewhat accessible on the bottom by removing the bottom cover, which is relatively easy. There is not much that can be wrong besides the E unit.
BB


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Just rotate it with a screwdriver.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Just rotate it with a screwdriver.


Well, it would be nice if it rotated under transformer control.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Half time and the Steelers need to get their act together. I can watch he drum turn. It does cycle in multiples of four. Took the unit out again. It looks like all fingers are making contact. Tomorrow morning I'll probe the fingers with a toothpick and a WD number. Almost foot ball time.

Finally won a reasonable bid on a 610 Pullman. Roof for the diner on the way. Anybody wants the rest of the car, pay for shipping and you have it. Let me know.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

It definitely is the contacts and maybe the drum too. Used Goop and Carb cleaner on contacts. One finger is bent differently than all the others - maybe a problem ? The black non contact areas of the drum are badly worn in some places - possible contact where there should not be ? Finally got the engine in forward and locked into forward for the time being. In the long run I am thinking of a new e-unit as it is easier to replace the whole thing rather than the drum and fingers/contacts.

Appreciate all of your help. Thank you.

B


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you might be surprised what they get for new E-units.  You can get the parts, or the whole unit, try The Train Tender, he probably has the parts.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Cleaning the shell since it has been removed I find the thing is an F3 --2344 with magnatraction which explains why the trucks pick up small loose metal items on the work bench. TTender does has parts and the whole unit for $34 - ouch ! Time to check ebay out.

B


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you are good with your hands, repairing the old E unit isn't that hard. 

BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm sure the good folks here can guide you through fixing the E-unit, a number of people have a lot of experience with them. I'm probably a novice in that area, I've only had a couple apart, and it really does take 27 fingers to put them back together again. 

If you're considering the whole E-Unit, I'd suggest you consider an electronic E-Unit, not much more and very reliable.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Inxy,

I was initially daunted by e-units, but I have now fully rebuilt 3 or 4, and it's actually not that complicated, as long as you have a little patience.

Chances are rather good that you can open and clean (or replace, if needed) the drum and top and bottom contact finger strips.

Here's a GREAT video that will step you through the process ... it's very clear and well presented ... See Post #1 of link below ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6131

Parts (fingers, drum) for repair should run about $10 ... no need to spend $34 on a full new e-unit, especially if you know that your solenoid goes up and down ok.

Ping us back with questions.

TJ


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

After an hour reading threads,, watching the video, checking parts and looking at electronic e-units, I quit for the night. Back at it tomorrow.

I am good with my hands although small stuff gives me fits - to many thumbs and then my fingers get in the way.


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## machinejack (May 5, 2010)

Hey inxy 
I'll will take your cast off salvaged car if it is still available. 
Drop me a private message. I got burnt on the last deal I made through the forum and I need some redemption.
machinejack
AKA Jack Adams


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Zen and the Art of E-Unit Repair ...*



inxy said:


> After an hour reading threads,, watching the video, checking parts and looking at electronic e-units, I quit for the night.



Ha ha ... I got a chuckle out of that. I'm remembering (not that long ago) to the sweat beads rolling down my forehead as a stared down the neck of my very first e-unit beast. Chills. Queezy stomache. The whole nine yards.

But I jumped in, and am glad I did. First rebuild to a while to get the pieces reassembled ... the "27 fingers" thing. After a few, they now go pretty quick. And -- though it sounds corny -- I have gained respect for the elegant simplicity of the old-school Lionel engineering on these e-units. Clever (but simple) mechanics.

So rest. Then, take a deep breath, and jump in. Tackle the beast. You'll be glad you did!

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The last E unit I fixed had been hot. The drum was somewhat misshapen due to heat. I used a pair of pliers to squeeze it back into its proper shape. I know this sounds crazy, but so far it is working. I then bent the fingers back into their proper shape and cleaned them and the drum. I bent the side plates to get the drum and lower contact fingers out and then rebent the side plates to complete the repair. 

BB


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Since you guys say this is easy I will dissemble the e-unit tomorrow. I thinking that it is a contact problem as it only ran in reverse then I messed with it and it now runs only forward. Can't really see the contacts till it's apart. Hard to break something that's broken.

B


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Can't do much more damage, that's for sure.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

It works ! Imagine that ! E-unit came apart in a heartbeat. Did a super clean and polish on the drum and got all of the fingers clean. Easy, simple until the reassembly. TJ is wrong about the "27 fingers" thing. It's "28 fingers". The hardest part was getting over the fear of you can't do it or you'll screw it up. 

Thanks for the help and advice guys !

Bruce

B


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There you go!  Did you need any parts, or just a complete cleaning?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sniff ... sob ... sniff ... sniff ...

I just love a story with a happy ending. (I think I need a tissue.) 

Inxy -- Welcome to the e-unit Bangers club! Give yourself a good pat on the back for tackling the beast ... 28 fingers, and all! Very glad to hear it worked out OK ... now that you've done one, it does go easier / quicker in the future.

Great job!

TJ


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

No more of those tear jerker movies for you ! 

For gunrunner - used all the orig parts, just cleaning.

Good to be a member of the club !!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

$0.00, great repair price!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

inxy said:


> It works ! Imagine that ! E-unit came apart in a heartbeat. Did a super clean and polish on the drum and got all of the fingers clean. Easy, simple until the reassembly. TJ is wrong about the "27 fingers" thing. It's "28 fingers". The hardest part was getting over the fear of you can't do it or you'll screw it up.
> 
> Thanks for the help and advice guys !
> 
> ...


I think 50% of problems are just a good cleaning needed.

You are now "experienced".:thumbsup:
Since that needed it now go and do the motor too.


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