# Tiny HO Layout



## Nikola

I am thinking about creating a tiny HO layout. I have 53" x 21" to play with. 

Continuous running, a distorted oval probably, will run either a street car or an 0-4-0 switcher, probably 8" to 10" turns. Not interested in a switching layout or even sidings for that matter, but will definitely have an 'abandoned' spur.

I know N scale would be more reasonable but I cannot get wrapped up around that.

Terrain will be local small-town Interurbanish, if that makes sense.

What say ye?


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## fcwilt

Hi,

With that much space you can do quite a bit if you go with a interurban layout.

The classic book "One Hundred and One Track Plans for Model Railroaders" has a number of fine examples.

They would be much more interesting than just an "oval" - to build and to operate.

Frederick


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## Nikola

fcwilt said:


> Hi,
> 
> With that much space you can do quite a bit if you go with a interurban layout.
> 
> The classic book "One Hundred and One Track Plans for Model Railroaders" has a number of fine examples.
> 
> They would be much more interesting than just an "oval" - to build and to operate.
> 
> Frederick


Yes, I have looked at that. They do have some twisted or distorted ovals. Looking for additional opinions or advice.

(Did you read the dimensions correctly, BTW? I am talking less than 2 feet by 5 feet.)


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## fcwilt

Nikola said:


> Yes, I have looked at that. They do have some twisted or distorted ovals. Looking for additional opinions or advice.
> 
> (Did you read the dimensions correctly, BTW? I am talking less than 2 feet by 5 feet.)


Yes I did.

You can find interurban motive power that can handle very sharp curves.

And if you take the time to include the catenary it can look grand.

Frederick


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## Dennis461

Hmmm, I have some home made SHORT log cars, and a 0-4-0, if I can find some flex track I could test for minimum radius.

and

BACHMANN HO 1320 GANDY DANCER ELECTRICALLY POWERED HAND CAR


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## Nikola

fcwilt said:


> Yes I did.
> 
> You can find interurban motive power that can handle very sharp curves.
> 
> And if you take the time to include the catenary it can look grand.
> 
> Frederick


Perfect! Thanks.


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## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Hmmm, I have some home made SHORT log cars, and a 0-4-0, if I can find some flex track I could test for minimum radius.


I may have gotten down to an 8 inch radius on prior HO layouts with careful selection of engine and cars. Single truck trolleys have no issues at all.

Let's see what you can do! 

Be prepared for the inside flex rail to stick out a mile. Great for staggered track joints.


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## Cycleops

Nice idea. Be sure to let us know what you come up with.


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## Nikola

Cycleops said:


> Nice idea. Be sure to let us know what you come up with.


Yes, I will. I have been sketching track plans and so far it looks like I am leaning towards a distorted oval or a 'dumbell' shape with circles at the ends and three rails down the center - would be paved road - with one common rail in the center. I am not sure if the layout is long enough to pull that off, though.


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## lajrmdlr

Do a Google search using the basic parameters you have listed. There's already gazillion posted on the internet. An urban based trolley plan could easily be made in a 21"x53" space. Look for an interurban near by that you could visit. Also there are some interurban module clubs that can be found thru an internet search. They should have literature on interurban modeling.


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## Cycleops

What you’re considering is also known as a ‘dogbone’ type configuration. Urban trams are very popular in Europe so be sure to search for ideas there.


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## Nikola

lajrmdlr said:


> Do a Google search using the basic parameters you have listed. There's already gazillion posted on the internet. An urban based trolley plan could easily be made in a 21"x53" space. Look for an interurban near by that you could visit. Also there are some interurban module clubs that can be found thru an internet search. They should have literature on interurban modeling.


Good tips, I will. Thanks!


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## Nikola

Cycleops said:


> What you’re considering is also known as a ‘dogbone’ type configuration. Urban trams are very popular in Europe so be sure to search for ideas there.


'Dogbone'. That's the term I was searching for! Thanks!


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## Nikola

OK, I'm in.

Back story - I am on assignment and am living in a hotel suite. I will be here long enough that I need something to do in the evenings besides company email and 24 hour news channels.

So I am building a tiny, lightweight layout.

This will be a field expedient exercise as I have very limited resources. I will be using whatever I can.

A coworker got some IKEA furniture and I commandeered the cardboard box. That is my layout and that is why it is the size it is.

I used wire hangers to kinda sorta lay out the track. Looks like it will be a dogbone but that is still subject to change.

IKEA has all sorts of handy cardboard shapes and miscellaneous pieces. Some will be used to reinforce the inside of the box, like on a hollow core door, and others will be landscaping or raw material for structures.

Here are some shots. That rough laminated piece of cardboad will serve as a ledge for the rear straightaway, which will be slightly elevated.


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## Nikola

And here are some aspirational photos to inspire the design of my layout, the Hudson Valley Railroad.

















































There will be an abandoned siding in there somewhere, and if there is a switch it will be a scatchbuilt open end stub switch.

I am really terrible at bridging the gap from where I am now to a fleshed-out landscape plan, so I am open and request ideas and suggestions. Otherwise, I tend to just go with the flow to see what develops. :dunno:


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## lajrmdlr

If you can walk around your layout think about a scenic divider down the middle. That way you could have a city side & country side.


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## Nikola

lajrmdlr said:


> If you can walk around your layout think about a scenic divider down the middle. That way you could have a city side & country side.


Unfortunately, there is no chance of a walk-around in my tiny space. 

I think I am going to keep it country with perhaps a building structure or two.


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## Nikola

OK, here is where I am.

IKEA boxes come with what turns out to be a nice large piece of tracing paper.

I traced out an approximation of the track and terrain features.

Those of you who know me know that I am a fan of constantly changing gradients as real life is seldom billiard-table smooth (even when it is, it isn't).

Building on this shallow box makes it easy for me to cut into the terrain.

I am thinking of a central valley. It will cut at an angle more or less in the center of the longest layout dimension (it shows staight across on the tracing paper; it will cut at an angle instead).

The area to the left of the valley will be at table height. The track there will have three gradient changes. Entering fom the valley on the bottom / front of the layout and going around to the left, the track will be flush with the surface as if the ties are buried (I will mount the ties below the cardboad surface), then rise so that the ties are mounted on the surface, then rise to cork roadbed so the ties are above the surface nd continue atop the raised rock section at the rear.

On the right, the track will be atop roadbed all the way, but on a raised berm as the valley will extend from the center outwards.

On the left, the valley will go right up to table height. This is where I will model that dirt road crossing with the old-fashioned railway cossing sign (see an earlier photo).

I will build a low trestle bridge for the bottom / front crossing and a stone arch bridge for the upper / rear crossing (again, see earlier photos).

I guess the valley should have a little meandering stream - that would be nice.

I m not sure that I am happy with that location for the abandoned spur. Once track is down I will have a better idea.

I will not cut cardboard until I form and solder the track into one piece. My son is shipping me some flex track, roadbed, and odds and ends as we have tons of stuff back at the ranch.

Comments, criticisms, and suggestions welcome!


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## lajrmdlr

Nikola said:


> Unfortunately, there is no chance of a walk-around in my tiny space.
> 
> I think I am going to keep it country with perhaps a building structure or two.


Guess you're stuck w/ the long side against the wall. Looks like your plan is to have large radius curves for your interurban MR. Most street car, trolley & interurban cars could handle small radius curves down to 6-8" R in HO scale, especially the first two types.


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## Nikola

lajrmdlr said:


> Guess you're stuck w/ the long side against the wall. Looks like your plan is to have large radius curves for your interurban MR. Most street car, trolley & interurban cars could handle small radius curves down to 6-8" R in HO scale, especially the first two types.


Yes, larger radius - between 8" and 9", probably. I decided against even tighter turns with streets and buildings. A single-truck trolley or even an 0-4-0 switcher with carefully selected cars can handle these turns. But thinking trolley, an imginary rural trolley that feeds a large service somewhere.


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## Dennis461

Rethink N-scale if you have not bought anything yet.


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## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Rethink N-scale if you have not bought anything yet.


N would fit better for sure - but HO is 'right' for me.

Besides, there is no budget so I must use stuff I already have and raw material I can scrounge, like the box. I have HO already.

I realize that this project is antagonistic to the overarching Board standard. It is too small, the curves are too tight, and it is made of cardboard.

Not exactly mainstream for this place! LOL.

Nevertheless, this is what I have to work with and this is what I want to try. So we will see how it goes.


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## greenwizard88

I have a 48"x52" layout, with 3 staging tracks over my desk. I run Walthers Amfleets on my layout. I think what you're doing is perfect


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## Mr.Buchholz

21" width is pretty tight for any curves in the track, but you could build your layout as one big yard with multiple switches. That could work in those dimensions.

-J.


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## Nikola

Mr.Buchholz said:


> 21" width is pretty tight for any curves in the track, but you could build your layout as one big yard with multiple switches. That could work in those dimensions.
> 
> -J.


It would fit, but I'm not a fan of switching layouts, so continuous running it is.


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## custom1106

Grab some flex track and do it. 

I've done it personally in about the same space. I used flex track to make my own radius and used shorter 40ft rolling stock with truck mounted couplers and Plymouth diesel switchers. I also did get away with using a few Lifelike train set F7s with truck mounted couplers. Not the most realistic setup, but if the equipment reworked & weathered nice it can be a passable small layout. I filled the inside of the oval with a yard and it was pretty fun to operate. The layout was 2x10 feet. Could I have gone with N scale? Sure, but I had a bunch of HO equipment that I wanted to use.


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## Nikola

custom1106 said:


> Grab some flex track and do it.
> 
> I've done it personally in about the same space. I used flex track to make my own radius and used shorter 40ft rolling stock with truck mounted couplers and Plymouth diesel switchers. I also did get away with using a few Lifelike train set F7s with truck mounted couplers. Not the most realistic setup, but if the equipment reworked & weathered nice it can be a passable small layout. I filled the inside of the oval with a yard and it was pretty fun to operate. The layout was 2x10 feet. Could I have gone with N scale? Sure, but I had a bunch of HO equipment that I wanted to use.


Yes, agreed 100%. When I was a kid I had a layout that must have been 20" by 84". It had three loops, one inside the other!

I an 0-4-0 switchers and single-truck trolley cars. I also had a single-truck diesel. Plenty of freight cars could do it.

I would love a Plymouth switcher! Some day...

As soon as my son can send me some track I will get going in earnest. In the meantime I am fiddling; I built a tiny shed out of basiclly nothing (see my other thread).


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## custom1106

Nikola said:


> Yes, agreed 100%. When I was a kid I had a layout that must have been 20" by 84". It had three loops, one inside the other!
> 
> I an 0-4-0 switchers and single-truck trolley cars. I also had a single-truck diesel. Plenty of freight cars could do it.
> 
> I would love a Plymouth switcher! Some day...
> 
> As soon as my son can send me some track I will get going in earnest. In the meantime I am fiddling; I built a tiny shed out of basiclly nothing (see my other thread).


Dude, Plymouth switchers are where it's at:laugh:

I have a few used, super high mileage Model Power Plymouth switchers that are weathered and kept maintained...they never miss a beat. Do they look a little goofy sometimes because they are closer to O scale? Yeah, but being able to run crazy tight curves is more than worth it.


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## Nikola

Some progess this morning since I had nothing better to do.

Still no track so proceeding with items that hopefully won't have painted me into a corner.

I used the extra cardboard from the IKEA boxes to build up and reinforce the inside of the carrton that is the base of the layout.

I lay the tissue paper layout sketch (surprisingly resilient paper from our Swedish friends) inside the box so I could mark the features. I was not only bracing the box but also building up in the area where the track will run just under the surface so the rails are flush with the surface.

I also laminated more cardboard along the edges and under the flat top surface to stiffen everything up.

I used up most of a bottle of Titebond glue I borrrowed from someone. Oops - will have to replace that for them.

I cut out the area where the riverbed / valley / gully will be. I cut way inside the lines as I am not sure how it will all lay out when I have the track and begin landscaping. The cutout looks like Prince was there, or (yuk) a toilet seat.

Plenty of pix below.


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## Nikola

Some more pix:

(These have all been posted in the order the work was done.)


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## Steve441

Great Start Nikola - I will be watching to see how it shapes up - Cheers - Steve


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## Single Driver Steam

Ingenious repurposing of all that darn IKEA cardboard! 

Based on those inspiration photos I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops (had no idea there was an extensive interurban system in the Capital District once upon a time).


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## Nikola

Single Driver Steam said:


> Ingenious repurposing of all that darn IKEA cardboard!
> 
> Based on those inspiration photos I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops (had no idea there was an extensive interurban system in the Capital District once upon a time).


Thank you! Next week I expect delivery of a CARE package from my son, and then purposeful work can begin. All I have to show so far is the cardboard base as seen here and a tiny scatchbuilt shanty (my other thread).


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## Nikola

Care package received! Thanks, my son!   

Bunch of flex track, cork roadbed, a power pack, and my modeling tools and paints.

No rolling stock, though, so I might have to make an educated guess on how tight I go with the curves as I have been toying with the thought of making them sharper.


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## Nikola

I took a stab at quickly mocking up the layout of the track.

It is held in place here with large toothpicks stabbed into the cardboard surface.

Of course, the curves and easements are not laid out smoothly o evenly and that will change. This is just a straw man.

I think I like this - comments?


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## Nikola

No comments received, so I pressed on regardless.

I soldered each rail joint. I use pencil-tipped iron and only solder on the outside of the rails. I use a very fine solder meant for PC board work. A tiny, tiny amount of solder us used as I do not want it lumped up or visible. Let a tiny mount sweat into the seam.Use the iron to smooth it out and if you placed a tad too much, use a wooden pin to smooth it out like an old-school customizer leading the seams on a custom car.









Only the first joining is close to even. All of the other joinings are staggered a few inches. You can 'walk' the inner or outer rails of flex track to where you want them by flexing the track and alternately holding the rail or letting it slip on the ties. With the entire circle, I only had to make two cuts, on the last connection closing the loop.


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## Nikola

I then traced on the outside of the ties with a Sharpie, and, using a cheapo 3" foam roller, applied a thin coating of inexpensive polyurethane. I want to seal the cardboard and will be doing this all over, one surface at a time. The water-based poly over a nice pucker to the surface of the cardboard that will add interest as I landscape.

Tomorrow I hope to address the several grades for the track.


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## deedub35

Good. Almost ready for trains. Are you going to glue the track to the cardboard?


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## Nikola

deedub35 said:


> Good. Almost ready for trains. Are you going to glue the track to the cardboard?


I guess. Still going by ear but have a sort of idea. In the center back will be a bridge over the ravine I stated to cut out. To the right of that and curving to the front, I will use cork roadbed.

From the center back to the left, the track will be laid right on the cardboard and as it curves to the front on the left, I want the ties beneath the surface so the rail is flush to the surface. Then, at a bridge or low trestle in the center front, the track will be rising to meet the elevated roadbed. 

I have track nails and expect to use them. I am not sure if I will also glue the track down. I guess I will have to. The nails can hold it in place while the glue sets, I suppose.

I have never before used glue when laying track. Always track nails. But the nails will not hold very long in cardboard, so I suppose I will have to use glue as you suggest.


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## Lemonhawk

As others have mentioned, silicon caulk makes a good glue, just don't clob it on. I use dap dynaflex 230, mainly because it comes in a 5.5 oz tube and I don't have mess with the caulk gun. The question I have is whether to paint it now then glue the track down or do it after you've glued the track down. The cardboard may be more (too) absorbent without the paint. Someone on this forum must have some experience with this -- so speak up!


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## MichaelE

I've never used glue for track either. I use nails and will continue to do so.

But yes, nails in cardboard won't work for long if the layout gets moved enough times. Good to hold it in place though while the glue dries.


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## Trentonmakes

I used elmers glue on cardboard and worked well and pulled up easily, actually it was a water glue mix 50/50.
I added dirt as a type of ballast over the track and cardboard. Depending how much you add the cardboard stands out like roadbed. If your using cardboard on a big area thats not an issue but if its just under the track itself, it will be noticeable.

Please keep in mind, I know just enough to be dangerous! Im sure others with more experience will chime in.

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

Trentonmakes said:


> I used elmers glue on cardboard and worked well and pulled up easily, actually it was a water glue mix 50/50.
> I added dirt as a type of ballast over the track and cardboard. Depending how much you add the cardboard stands out like roadbed. If your using cardboard on a big area thats not an issue but if its just under the track itself, it will be noticeable.
> 
> Please keep in mind, I know just enough to be dangerous! Im sure others with more experience will chime in.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk


That's good to know. That tip might just come in handy!


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## Nikola

Lemonhawk said:


> As others have mentioned, silicon caulk makes a good glue, just don't clob it on. I use dap dynaflex 230, mainly because it comes in a 5.5 oz tube and I don't have mess with the caulk gun. The question I have is whether to paint it now then glue the track down or do it after you've glued the track down. The cardboard may be more (too) absorbent without the paint. Someone on this forum must have some experience with this -- so speak up!


I picked up a tube of DAP Alex Super Flex (or whatever). White, paint grade; sounds like a similar product.

I have already poly'd the cardboard to seal it, with a coat of cheap dark brown interior latex over that, so the cardboard should be sealed.


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## Nikola

MichaelE said:


> I've never used glue for track either. I use nails and will continue to do so.
> 
> But yes, nails in cardboard won't work for long if the layout gets moved enough times. Good to hold it in place though while the glue dries.


Yes, that sounds correct and the way to go. Thanks.


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## Vincent

Nikola, I'm not an expert by any means, but fifteen days after it arrived, my 6' by8' train table is running out of room. I have two HO ovals on it.

N scale might not be as bad as you think.


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## Dennis461

Spread the caulk with a plastic butter knife, the kind with ridges on the blade.
I get my from the company cafeteria.
Too thick, and it pushed up between the ties and makes a mess.


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## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Spread the caulk with a plastic butter knife, the kind with ridges on the blade.
> I get my from the company cafeteria.
> Too thick, and it pushed up between the ties and makes a mess.


Now that is the type of field expedient advice I like!!!


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## Nikola

Vincent said:


> Nikola, I'm not an expert by any means, but fifteen days after it arrived, my 6' by8' train table is running out of room. I have two HO ovals on it.
> 
> N scale might not be as bad as you think.


Yes, not going to happen. Check the thread intro. This is it.


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## Nikola

Otay, time for a little segue. I have seen posts now and then from folks who are not keen on soldering. I love soldering, so here are a couple of tips in case anyone finds them useful.

I previously covered soldering track joints. Here is how I solder wire feeds onto the track.

1 - Tinning is your friend. Tinning is the application of a very thin coating of solder onto the components in question. Think of it as chrome plating, except with a lead/tin alloy instead of chromium..

2. I strip and twist the ends of the wire and then tin them with an absolutely minimal amount of solder. Do not glob it on.

3. The wire should be good to go as you strip it in terms of cleanliness. The underside of the track, where the wires will attach, can use a cleanup with an abrasive or scrape. Get it bright and shiny.

4. Tin the underside of the track. While the solder it still molten, quickly wipe it with your fingertip (if you are a he-man super hero). The rest of us use a rag or paper towel because it is _hot_. Work fast before the solder freezes.

5. Bend the wire ends 90 degrees - since it is tinned, it will bend nicely and keep its shape - and place underneath the rail. You can use a third hand if needed. Once you get good and are able to work quickly, you will not need a third hand.

6. Heat the wire and the tinned surfaces flow and voila, a nice solder joint. Sometimes you might need to add a teeny-tiny drop of additional solder.

The pictures below correspond to these steps. Good luck; I find soldering very gratifying.


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## Lemonhawk

Nice explanation on soldering to track! Since I lay my own track on CV ties, I actually use a PC tie that I solder on the bench then I decide where I need it I cut the CV tie out and out and put the PC tie in its place. Then lay the rail and go back and with a little flux solder the pc tie to the rail. Cleaning and flux allows you to use a minimal amount of solder!


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## Nikola

Lemonhawk said:


> Nice explanation on soldering to track! Since I lay my own track on CV ties, I actually use a PC tie that I solder on the bench then I decide where I need it I cut the CV tie out and out and put the PC tie in its place. Then lay the rail and go back and with a little flux solder the pc tie to the rail. Cleaning and flux allows you to use a minimal amount of solder!


That's a good idea - I like that!


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## 89Suburban

Nikola said:


> Otay, time for a little segue. I have seen posts now and then from folks who are not keen on soldering. I love soldering, so here are a couple of tips in case anyone finds them useful.
> 
> I previously covered soldering track joints. Here is how I solder wire feeds onto the track.
> 
> 1 - Tinning is your friend. Tinning is the application of a very thin coating of solder onto the components in question. Think of it as chrome plating, except with a lead/tin alloy instead of chromium..
> 
> 2. I strip and twist the ends of the wire and then tin them with an absolutely minimal amount of solder. Do not glob it on.
> 
> 3. The wire should be good to go as you strip it in terms of cleanliness. The underside of the track, where the wires will attach, can use a cleanup with an abrasive or scrape. Get it bright and shiny.
> 
> 4. Tin the underside of the track. While the solder it still molten, quickly wipe it with your fingertip (if you are a he-man super hero). The rest of us use a rag or paper towel because it is _hot_. Work fast before the solder freezes.
> 
> 5. Bend the wire ends 90 degrees - since it is tinned, it will bend nicely and keep its shape - and place underneath the rail. You can use a third hand if needed. Once you get good and are able to work quickly, you will not need a third hand.
> 
> 6. Heat the wire and the tinned surfaces flow and voila, a nice solder joint. Sometimes you might need to add a teeny-tiny drop of additional solder.
> 
> The pictures below correspond to these steps. Good luck; I find soldering very gratifying.
> 
> View attachment 430425
> 
> 
> View attachment 430433
> 
> 
> View attachment 430441
> 
> 
> View attachment 430449
> 
> 
> View attachment 430457
> 
> 
> View attachment 430465
> 
> 
> View attachment 430473
> 
> 
> View attachment 430481


Nice job! :appl:


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## Nikola

89Suburban said:


> Nice job! :appl:


Thanks, 'Burb! 

Things are stating to get interesting as things are changing from engaged to committed.

(Ham and eggs for breakfast? The chicken is engaged and the hog is committed.)

I want the track at the lower left to be at road grade. So the track will be mounted below grade.

I used scrap piece of track as a scribe to mark where the rails will be. I then cut out with a knife. I saved the cutout as I should be able to use it to fill in the center.

It sounds so easy but this is probably the hardest pat of the job for me. The tight curve, flimsy cardboard, and so on make a lot of this a one-way street. The track here is sitting on the built-up subsurface underneath - check early in the thread.

The track is now one with the surface since some of it is slipped underneath and the rest is up top. I have to mount the track from this cut-out section fist, since the track needs to map to the cutout exactly. I can wiggle it as needed elsewhere, whee the tack is up top. I hope that makes sense. I kind of will be pulling myself up by my bootstraps to get it together.

Some pix - I m actually farther along; need to take more shots:


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## Nikola

Track is in place!

Since I am a glutton for punishment, of course I needed three different elevations in this tiny circle. Grade, above grade, and below grade.

Above grade is on thick cork roadbed.

At grade is right on the surface.

Below grade is the track mounted underneath, with the top of the ails flush with the surface.

I want the non-roadbed area of the layout to appear as neglected right-of-way, and the portion on roadbed to appear more well kept.

I forgot that I had wanted to remove every third or fourth tie to make the track look more low-budget. Oops.

It is glued down with acrylic caulk and the plastic knife trick suggested earlier by Dennis461 worked a treat. The track is spiked and that held it while the caulk cured.

I had to taper the cork roadbed at the one end. (The other end will die at a bridge.) I was dreading trying to trim the cork roadbed - I had already glued it down with drop of Super Glue every few inches - but I found an easy way to do it. I used a very long X-Acto blade in the large X-Acto handle, and simply scraped the roadbed down. It only took a few minutes. I was able to control the angle of the taper, and I ended up with a good amount of cork shavings that will be used somewhere, I am sure.

(Yes, there is a bobble in the straight. It is intentional.)


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## Nikola

I have been proceeding but have not updated in a while. Oops.

I decided to redo the section that was to have the top of the rails at street level because they came out too low. I also decided to install a switch and station in the infield, so the track needed to come up anyway.

I have been playing with the open cut section. I laminated a bunch of corrugated cardboard and shaped it with a serrated knife. I like the look as it seems rockish. The photos do not do it justice due to lighting. As of now it is the raw cardboard color with some Krylon camo dark brown and a tiny bit of OD green misted on.

I also formed boulder-looking rock face with crumbled tissue paper stiffened with hair spray.

I am making an old-fashioned crossing sign of the style I remember as a young person. It is coffee stirrers glued together, then trimmed narrower with tin snips after gluing, then painted with White-Out, then gently sanded to smooth out the paint and make it look worn, then lettered with a Rapidograph. It is quick and dirty and I should redo the lettering more neatly. Still need to make the uprights.

I am also experimenting with dryer lint, peeled right off the screen, as ground cover. I stiffened with hair spray and misted on some dark brown and OD green Krylon.

I am getting a kick out of scrounging field expedients for raw material.


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## Nikola

My wonderful son sent me a CARE package. Landscaping supplies. Rolling stock.

The 0-4-0 switcher and PCC car are inop. Maybe I can fix them. The Brill trolley - don't recall. The little single-truck trolley is from my childhood - I painted it a very, very long time ago - and it still works perfectly.

The red caboose might get bobbed into a MOW car. 

Also, a nice batch of landscaping supplies. Finally, two switches that will be used something like either of the below.


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## Vincent

Nikola would you mind if I adopted your son?


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## Colorado1445

Looks amazing, I am thinking about going into HO and this may be perfect for my size restraints. I have some HO stuff back with the parents in my old room. 


Also have you though about importing some OO stuff? British 0-6-0s look great.


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## Gramps

Looking forward to seeing the results.


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## Nikola

Vincent said:


> Nikola would you mind if I adopted your son?


Sorry, I've got dibs on him.


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## Nikola

Colorado1445 said:


> Looks amazing, I am thinking about going into HO and this may be perfect for my size restraints. I have some HO stuff back with the parents in my old room.
> 
> 
> Also have you though about importing some OO stuff? British 0-6-0s look great.


From a lifetime of never enough room, I have found tiny HO layouts with tight curves to be very satisfying. Purists would disagree, but if I had the space I likely would, too!

Can't say that I ever have ever thought of that, but it sounds a good idea.


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## MatroxD

I have followed your thread with interest as my layout is simple. I'm finding your progress interesting and looks the others cannot wait to see how it turns out. I wish I had the vision or even space you do, to add a mountain or something to mine.

Anyhow, looks awesome! 

Sent from my Note8 using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

MatroxD said:


> I have followed your thread with interest as my layout is simple. I'm finding your progress interesting and looks the others cannot wait to see how it turns out. I wish I had the vision or even space you do, to add a mountain or something to mine.
> 
> Anyhow, looks awesome!
> 
> Sent from my Note8 using Tapatalk


Thank you! It is weird to have a fellow model person think I have a ton of space - my layout is only 21" x 52" - proof that we all do the best we can with what we have to work with.


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## Nikola

I have this area to address.

I found that the cardboard from a wide-bottom PendaFlex fit perfectly. 

I then veneered it with wooden coffee stirrers, which are a scale foot wide. Good enough. They are about 14 scale feet long each section, and one section is only 3 scale inches narrower than the other sections. Within tolerance.

After the single layer was glued down, I sanded it and then doubled the uprights.

I finished it with brown liquid shoe polish. The foam applicator makes it really easy to apply and shade areas darker or lighter. The darker is the lower edge.

I like the way it turned out and even more for being created out of found materials.

I also discovered that half of the the plastic case from an Apple TV remote is the perfect size and shape to be the roof of HO rolling stock or the roof of a station.


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## Gramps

Looks good, very creative.:thumbsup:


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## Vincent

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only popsicle stick architect around here.


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## MatroxD

Nikola said:


> Thank you! It is weird to have a fellow model person think I have a ton of space - my layout is only 21" x 52" - proof that we all do the best we can with what we have to work with.


Yes, I must have missed the 52". I was thinking you had like 8 feet by 21"..Lol.. But still.. Very nice for your space.. I'm really considering an addition to mine.. I just don't know what I would do with it... 

Sent from my Note8 using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

MatroxD said:


> Yes, I must have missed the 52". I was thinking you had like 8 feet by 21"..Lol.. But still.. Very nice for your space.. I'm really considering an addition to mine.. I just don't know what I would do with it...
> 
> Sent from my Note8 using Tapatalk


LOL, I had about that amount of space when I was a kid. The trolley is the same one. I even had a real subway car controller wired up. From the R1 - 9 series cars. Don't ask me how I got it.


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## 89Suburban

Nice!


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## Nikola

89Suburban said:


> Nice!


Then you'll really like this...


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## Vincent

Help me out here Nikola. Doesn't that track eventually bend out of shape from the train's weight? How do you keep the track from pulling loose from the rest of your lay-out?


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## Nikola

Vincent said:


> Help me out here Nikola. Doesn't that track eventually bend out of shape from the train's weight? How do you keep the track from pulling loose from the rest of your lay-out?


Good question, Vince. It is just a mock-up for the photo. That section is still under construction. I will post some photos of what I am doing.


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## Nikola

Change, change, change.

I was not happy with having a switch track on a bridge or of the angles and lengths of the spurs.

So, I redid some of the track work. I pulled up the switches and flipped them left for right. I was able to get the main line switch off the bridge, and better spur lengths and angles on the layout.

This is the third track configuration. The first was no switches, the second was as previously shown in this thread, and this is the third.

I think I am going to use the empty tunnel under the rear of the main line as an abandoned mine. That means I can run track into it. Now I need to learn something about HOn3, as the little mine spur will just be an abandoned siding down in the open cut. I might have part of the line under water, as if the old mine were flooded. We'll see.

It is weird that on a layout this small, a one-half inch makes a huge difference. The worst thing about this is that my quality, brass frog switch is now off the main line and my cheapo, plastic frog switch is on the main line. Oh well, this is what I have to work with.

Well, what do you think? I am not finalized on the location of the elevated coal dump.


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## Dennis461

*enough already*

OK OK I get it.
We should be building with cardboard, not foam.

I'll give it a try.


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## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> OK OK I get it.
> We should be building with cardboard, not foam.
> 
> I'll give it a try.



That's the ticket!! Now you're cooking!


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## Nikola

There never seems to be a good place to put transformers and switches, and on a tiny little layout the dilemma is worse.

I had reserved some 'underneath' space so that I could tuck my little transformer away out of sight. Of course, when it is hidden you can't get to the speed control.

I had intended to create some sort of remote connection. This morning I got to work on it.

The first problem was in deciding what I would use, and how I would attach it to the transformer. Of course, per my earlier posts, I have very little to work with in terms of raw materials. I also wanted whatever I came up with to be reversible should my requirements change.

I needed something strong, resilient and round. I was spying some ball point pen barrels, poking around here and there, when I came across a pair of chopsticks I had stashed away a week or so ago when I brought home takeout.

These chopsticks were nice, clean bamboo. Perfect.

The photos below show the sequence. I at first removed the movable handle from the generic Bachman transformer, and was going to create some sort of connection to the big slot in the portion of the handle left behind, maybe with a magnet. Then I realized that the handle I removed had a perfect slot in it from the factory.

I separated the chopsticks and cut one to length by rolling it under an X-Acto blade. I then filed two flats on the distal end that snugly fit into the slot on the controller handle.

I located where this would go on the layout and poked a small hole in the top of the layout. I used the chopstick itself to ream the hole to a perfect, snug fit.

(There is a photo that shows a flashlight shining down this hole, onto the transformer.)

I slid the transformer underneath and inserted the chopstick down through the hole and into the slot in the handle. Rotating the chopstick (it has a larger square section up top, making it easy to grasp) changes the speed, forward or reverse.

Later on I will shorten and dress the wires. I will also decide how to incorporate the chopstick into the scenery. Maybe I will attach it to the tine shed I scratchbuilt (see a separate thread) - turning the shed will control the trains. 

The chopstick is easily removable as well. Just lift and remove.

Pictures below show the sequence described above.


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## Nikola

A lot of progress and many photos, so let's start to get caught up.

Let's start with one of my field-expedient landscaping resources: dryer lint.

My dryer collects lint in a large rectangular screen. After two or three loads, it is full of nicely-packed, clean, and pleasantly-scented lint.

I peel it off intact and lay it on a flat piece of cardboard. I then mist it with several thin, dry and one final wetter coat of the least expensive hair spray (unscented). Let the spray dry in between coats.

The first coat, if not done carefully, could blow the lint apart. Once the hair spray is built up, while the sheet of lint is hardly as robust as a paper towel, it can be handled quite easily without damage.

I then mist on some Krylon camo dark brown and olive green spray paint. I use these colors because they are the only ones I have.

I used the resultant material as roadbed for the section of my layout where the switchtrack goes over a bridge. This will be a steel truss bridge with tracks on roadbed as commonly seen on the LIRR. Because of the switchtrack and desire to not have this section look too 'heavy', I eschewed ballast and am using the lint. The lint provides good texture and appearance without affecting operation of the switch.

I fastened the lint sheet to the cardboard (inner liner from a three ring binder) using a glue stick. Yes, the same type of glue stick as is used in kidneygarden (misspelling intentional).

I touched up areas of the lint that pulled out a bit (the unpainted, white lint can poke through) with a little brown liquid shoe polish applied (dabbed and flowed) with a small brush.

What do you think? It is different, for sure. I will use lint in other parts of the layout as well, as I have found that by bunching it up you can provide the appearance of undulating terrain, directly over a flat surface.


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## Nikola

Have been busy so not much progress.

Here is some - and it exploits my theme of using field-expedient materials and techniques.

Ballast is coffee. Mmmmm smells good! I use Aqua-Net unscented hairspray (because it is the least expensive), spraying a heavy coat. Then the coffee using a shaker of the sort used for red pepper at your local pizzeria. Then a dusting of hair spray over the top. Once cured, I use a chip brush to remove any loose particles.

Terrain is dryer lint. I let it build up over a few loads of wash. It is held down with adhesive from a glue stick.

The dark dryer lint up top was fogged with Krylon camo brown and olive drab. The lighter down in the quarry (which was light grey as it came out of the dryer) was colored brown using brown liquid shoe polish in a little spritzer bottle (used to contain screen cleaner), thinned a little with water, and pump sprayed. In the photos it is still wet.

The dryer lint gives thickness and texture and is easily shaped into exactly what you want.

















The section of track barely visible is where I wanted the ballast to cover the ties. In another area I wanted the ties to show. I used the medicine dropper in the photo, with some watered down white glue in the little plastic cap from the spritzer bottle, to place two drops of dilute glue in between each tie. then, shake on ballast. Will post a picture of that eventually.


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## Nikola

I am not going to feel comfortable working on the upper areas of this little layout until the lower aka quarry area is done. But the problem was that I was not sure how I wanted to do it. 

So, I finally just jumped in and it will go where it goes.

The first step was the above posts where I laid down some thick sheets of dryer lint. 

I then laid down some strips of corrugated cardboard that was built up in the center with very narrow strips underneath. This gave a crown. The cardboard was set in place with glue stick adhesive applied down the center and along the edges.

I cannot overstate the value of glue sticks for model RR terrain, scenery and landscaping.

This provided something that looked like this - the tee intersection was built up with a few scrap pieces to match the intersecting crowns (like intersecting peaked roofs) and that was smoothed with some white DAP - there is also a little fillet piece on the inside corner of the intersection:

View attachment 462522


View attachment 462524


View attachment 462526


View attachment 462528


More to come.


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## Nikola

All righty then, next we need a road surface and I had decided upon dirt.

For this I used --- dirt. I grabbed a jarful from outside where the landscapers had dug up some. The native soil here is a fine, gray color with some little and larger pebbles mixed in.

I poured some of this soil into one of those little shakers with the big holes, like used in pizza joints for red pepper.

A few napkins to mask the dryer lint (which dried nicely with the dilute shoe polish spritz described a few posts back) and I laid down a thick coat of Elmer's spray contact adhesive glue.

I shook on a liberal coat of the soil. I am OK with the little pebbles and a little overspill onto the ballast in a few spots.

This is all curing. I will let it sit undisturbed overnight as I am not kidding myself that the rather thick layer of soil all sees adhesive. I plan on dusting several coats of hair spray up top.

This has to be down lightly at first to not disturb the soil. As you build up coats, letting it dry thoroughly in between, it should hold the soil in place. Maybe. If not, will figure something else out. To be continued; the photos below are before any hair spray.


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## lajrmdlr

Take a good hard look at your dirt. To me, it looks like many small boulders in it which might make it undrivable. And would you want to walk on it? Put a scale figure in the dirt to compare the dirt size to the shoe on the figure. To me looking at modeled dirt, there should be little to no texture at normal layout viewing distance 2-3 feet or 150-250 HO scale feet.


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## Nikola

lajrmdlr said:


> Take a good hard look at your dirt. To me, it looks like many small boulders in it which might make it undrivable. And would you want to walk on it? Put a scale figure in the dirt to compare the dirt size to the shoe on the figure. To me looking at modeled dirt, there should be little to no texture at normal layout viewing distance 2-3 feet or 150-250 HO scale feet.


Very good point and you are correct. 

I was first thinking of screening the dirt, but I do not have anything to use (I am on assignment with bare minimum resources).

I rationalized that with the hair spray as the final fixative, I will be able to brush aside the larger pieces easily enough. Either remove them entirely, or, maybe, since this is a rough and undeveloped area, move them to the side the way traffic pushes material aside, as is seen on a real dirt road.

Since this is a quarry area with an inexplicable overhead dump track, I can justify there being larger debris appearing. I am not sure if I will remove it or leave it somehow. I do want this area to appear very ill-maintained, though.

Below are photos of one I spotted in real-life. It is the old B&O right of way from the 1880s that is now the Staten Island Railway (aka subway, although still registered with the Feds as a heavy railroad). The siding no longer connects to the main line but it is still there, now used as a storage rack. Very urban and manufacturing oriented with pallets and such, but it gives the vibe of old and broke down. That is what I want if I can pull it off (not sure I can). Old and broke down. Just like me!

But your observation is 100% on target and is potentially a weak point. I appreciate your taking the time to mention it as it is important to get different viewpoints; others will see something glaring missed and offer good ideas. So thank you and keep them coming!

I will definitely address your comment, somehow.


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## lajrmdlr

Looks like the only real dirt is in middle of the top image. All the rest show all kinds of trash that can't be driven over much less walked over. ~} Look into using a spreadable medium like Spackle for the actual roadway to cover the larger rocks.


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## Lemonhawk

I think your idea of "clearing the boulder" off to the side is just the ticket! That's probably how it would have been done in real life on an unimproved roadway.


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## Dudlee99

Enjoying the photos and modeling details Nikola. Great job.


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## Nikola

lajrmdlr said:


> Looks like the only real dirt is in middle of the top image. All the rest show all kinds of trash that can't be driven over much less walked over. ~} Look into using a spreadable medium like Spackle for the actual roadway to cover the larger rocks.


Yes, that yard is a trash fest! You can find it on Google Maps.

My photos are a little misleading because they were taken from a passing train that was moving at a pretty good clip. The yard uses the underneath area for storage but there are 'roads' - - well, the dirt of the yard, so maybe 'paths' - - on each side.

The way it the roads are now on my layout is way too sharp and clean and rectilinear. I have to soften the edges, and make them irregular.


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## Nikola

Lemonhawk said:


> I think your idea of "clearing the boulder" off to the side is just the ticket! That's probably how it would have been done in real life on an unimproved roadway.


Yes, that is what I was thinking. Plus, the traffic on a dirt or gravel road tends to displace the larger stuff to the shoulders.

At this point I have one light and a follow-on heavy coat of hair spray. I can just move the larger pieces with a light touch. I think I will try the brush to see what happens.

I also want to build up some high and low spots, as would be in RL.


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## PoppetFlatsRR

A friend who is a master modeler, told me my roads were in correct, and gave a lot of the same comments. He told me to go to a baseball diamond, that is used, and grab some dirt from it. sift it to the finest level I could. I picked up the dirt yesterday, so we will see how it turns out. I have several mountain roads that are/will be dirt. So much to learn, so little time to learn it. Why didn't I start this 50 years ago, when I first thought about it.


----------



## Vincent

PoppetFlatsRR said:


> Why didn't I start this 50 years ago, when I first thought about it.


Because you didn't have the money; didn't have the room; and the kids would have torn everything up.

Same as me.


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## Stumpy

Enjoying watching this progress, and the "dirt road" conversation is timely. :thumbsup:


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## Nikola

Lemonhawk said:


> I think your idea of "clearing the boulder" off to the side is just the ticket! That's probably how it would have been done in real life on an unimproved roadway.


Thank you! Now I have to figure out what the traffic pattern is, and start brushing.


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## Nikola

Dudlee99 said:


> Enjoying the photos and modeling details Nikola. Great job.


Thank you! I'm trying.


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## Nikola

I made some headway with the dirt roads.

As some of us have been discussing, I needed to address the moon-rock surface of the road while overall making it seem more realistic.

As a reminder, I am looking for this to look like a rough dirt road.

I used a stiff, flat and wide artist's brush and dry brushed the areas where traffic would be. That was coming out of the tunnel portals, making the turn, turning around, that sort of thing.

I was able to brush aside the large stones and at the same time, to move the 'fines' around and, even a bonus, the layering method I used (spray adhesive - soil sifter on - several light and then heavy coats of hair spray) gave some differences in color as well as the type of flat spalling one sees on old dirt / macadam roads.

Here are pictures in progression from where I began to where it is now. I would not consider it done but it is progress. BTW, it looks better in RL than on the cell phone pix. Also, I have the light source at a flat angle to the road to highlight shadows and that makes it a bit more pronounced.

The last picture is with a light mist of hair spray.

I have found another bonus from using hair spray. When applying a heavy coat, it will puddle in the lowest areas and cures to a realistic-looking puddle amidst the ground cover.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

That looks *really* good with the large rocks pushed to the sides of the road! My own planned layout will be centered around Western mining towns, so almost nothing *but* dirt roads. I'll have to keep this technique in mind when I get to doing the landscaping.


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## Lemonhawk

Keeps looking better and better.


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## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> That looks *really* good with the large rocks pushed to the sides of the road! My own planned layout will be centered around Western mining towns, so almost nothing *but* dirt roads. I'll have to keep this technique in mind when I get to doing the landscaping.


That sounds cool! I wish I had more resources to get the roads high crowned with wheel furrows. 

The rocks on the right side of the road will move a bit. I have a retaining wall (see a much earlier post) that will be installed there and I am not yet sure of where the bottom edge will be, nor if there will be any weeds or whatever between the bottom edge of the retaining wall and where the rocks will have ended up from traffic. I do want to lose the razor-sharp edges of the road even though the retaining wall is straight.


----------



## Nikola

Lemonhawk said:


> Keeps looking better and better.


Thank you, I am trying. I am comfortable with my best efforts due to many constraints and relative inexperience.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

Nikola said:


> That sounds cool! I wish I had more resources to get the roads high crowned with wheel furrows.
> 
> The rocks on the right side of the road will move a bit. I have a retaining wall (see a much earlier post) that will be installed there and I am not yet sure of where the bottom edge will be, nor if there will be any weeds or whatever between the bottom edge of the retaining wall and where the rocks will have ended up from traffic. I do want to lose the razor-sharp edges of the road even though the retaining wall is straight.


A little late for this road, but what if you cut some corrugated cardboard to make the high points of the road, so the low spot between cardboard pieces would be the ruts in the road?

Some randomly placed weeds would definitely break up the edges of the roads. And in places where there is a specific traveled path you could do weeds in the middle of the lanes. In the above scene you could also do trash alongside the road... stacks of pipe or old boards, a random tire or just whatever leftovers might be kicking around from the activity in the area. Lumber would be easy using the heavy cardboard from the back of a notepad, and it's already grey as a base for weathering. Pipes might be some paper clips or those tiny cocktail straws. Make the area look used and you can quickly hide the straight lines.


----------



## PoppetFlatsRR

Looking very realistic Nikola. I am trying to soak all the ideas and comments and watching you perform the magic.

I am using cheap styrafoam for my layout. 2 inch thicks stuff you get at home depot. I use a foam cutting wand to make my mountains, and chip the styrafoam away to make the surface rough. I also learned I could make large boulders with it and just let it soak in the water downed paint over night and I had large, light weight rocks to place around.

I screwed up one afternoon and let the wand get away from me and it cut a smal 2 inch chunk out of the styrafoam board. Flat side sat perectly on my flat road area, but by sanding the small piece I could make little hills, bumps with it.

You might try cutting some of that and see if you can crown the road and make ruts with it. I have no doubt that you can do it. 

I will be using the idea between double tracks and around corners where I want it built up some. Will try to get a picture of it for you, as pictures are a lot better.

I am staying tuned to your work. Thank you for sharing, and the same to all you other guys. I have only been here a few days, but have learned so much. Love this site.


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> A little late for this road, but what if you cut some corrugated cardboard to make the high points of the road, so the low spot between cardboard pieces would be the ruts in the road?
> 
> Some randomly placed weeds would definitely break up the edges of the roads. And in places where there is a specific traveled path you could do weeds in the middle of the lanes. In the above scene you could also do trash alongside the road... stacks of pipe or old boards, a random tire or just whatever leftovers might be kicking around from the activity in the area. Lumber would be easy using the heavy cardboard from the back of a notepad, and it's already grey as a base for weathering. Pipes might be some paper clips or those tiny cocktail straws. Make the area look used and you can quickly hide the straight lines.


You know, that would work and I might be able to do it.

The main section of my dirt road is not a one-laner, so I might leave that part as-is since it 'weathered' pretty well. But the leg down past the trestle - it could work there.

Thanks for the great ideas!


----------



## Nikola

PoppetFlatsRR said:


> Looking very realistic Nikola. I am trying to soak all the ideas and comments and watching you perform the magic.
> 
> I am using cheap styrafoam for my layout. 2 inch thicks stuff you get at home depot. I use a foam cutting wand to make my mountains, and chip the styrafoam away to make the surface rough. I also learned I could make large boulders with it and just let it soak in the water downed paint over night and I had large, light weight rocks to place around.
> 
> I screwed up one afternoon and let the wand get away from me and it cut a smal 2 inch chunk out of the styrafoam board. Flat side sat perectly on my flat road area, but by sanding the small piece I could make little hills, bumps with it.
> 
> You might try cutting some of that and see if you can crown the road and make ruts with it. I have no doubt that you can do it.
> 
> I will be using the idea between double tracks and around corners where I want it built up some. Will try to get a picture of it for you, as pictures are a lot better.
> 
> I am staying tuned to your work. Thank you for sharing, and the same to all you other guys. I have only been here a few days, but have learned so much. Love this site.


That sounds like it works. I don't have any Styrofoam, though. Just cardboard, LOL. But I like the idea and I will try to figure out something along those lines.

Thank you for the kind words.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

Well I finally figured out where I had read about the idea of adding clutter... It was in our club newsletter and the topic of tonight's discussion!  You would have really appreciated the talk, it centered around finding random household garbage and weathering it to fit into a scene. Bits of plastic from containers cut up as sheets of metal, the little desiccant capsules from pill bottles painted as barrels, bits from cassette tapes, lighters, and kind of equipment with gears, cogs, etc to stack up. One of the main points was that all clutter has a purpose and when people put things out they tend to stack items for later use. Even in a scrap yard similar items will be stacked together and paths will be left for people to get around.

Oh and one little gem that fits right in here... Cut and fold brown paper sacks to make realistic-looking cardboard boxes. And I know it's been mentioned here before but I don't recall it in this thread (it also came up in tonight's meeting) -- small clippings from magazines can make excellent billboards, posters for fences and buildings, or just signs in general.


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> Well I finally figured out where I had read about the idea of adding clutter... It was in our club newsletter and the topic of tonight's discussion!  You would have really appreciated the talk, it centered around finding random household garbage and weathering it to fit into a scene. Bits of plastic from containers cut up as sheets of metal, the little desiccant capsules from pill bottles painted as barrels, bits from cassette tapes, lighters, and kind of equipment with gears, cogs, etc to stack up. One of the main points was that all clutter has a purpose and when people put things out they tend to stack items for later use. Even in a scrap yard similar items will be stacked together and paths will be left for people to get around.
> 
> Oh and one little gem that fits right in here... Cut and fold brown paper sacks to make realistic-looking cardboard boxes. And I know it's been mentioned here before but I don't recall it in this thread (it also came up in tonight's meeting) -- small clippings from magazines can make excellent billboards, posters for fences and buildings, or just signs in general.


Wow, terrific tips and ideas. I had forgotten about magazine ad clippings - I last did that as a kid for billboard signs on my slot car track.

You have me thinking now.

:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## sid

pretty cool looking and great use of card board . i like it all.


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## Nikola

sid said:


> pretty cool looking and great use of card board . i like it all.


Thanks, Sid!

I recently did a lot but no time for posting details.

Here's a teaser of the beginnings of a rutted dirt road:









More to come!


----------



## Nikola

OK, going a little back in time.

Here's how I am making rutted dirt roads:

I got some really inexpensive 'spackle' at Wally World. I mixed some with some of the Swiss Brown paint from HD (a Behr sample can that was very inexpensive). Mixed and that made a brown goop, which I dribbled onto the layout where the road would be.

I then used Special Tool Number J-WT285-009x to create the wheel ruts. Actually, I could not find that tool, so I made a little Q-Tip thingie with the swabs 5 1/2 scale feet apart (which seemed about right).

I used the tool to create sloppy ruts. As the mix cured, I touched it up with a stiff, flat artist's brush, holding the tip sideways and dry brushing in the direction of movement and to make the curves smooth.

I then sprinkled the same dirt I have been using dirt with my pizza place shaker.

When it cured I dry brushed the stones from the ruts and used hair spray as a fixative.

I first did a small area and have since extended this, but no pictures of that yet.

It is not as perfect as I would like, but seems very passable. 3D lighting in real life accentuates the shadows, improving the appearance.


----------



## lajrmdlr

UP close it still looks like real dirt, meaning it's not scale dirt. Recommend everyone go out & look at real dirt roads. Look at it from the scale distance that you'll be looking at your layout. You shouldn't be seeing much if any grain to the real dirt. Also, small rocks won't be very evident either.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

lajrmdlr said:


> Also, small rocks won't be very evident either.


It depends greatly on the location. If you're driving through a corn field in Iowa, then yeah you would not be seeing any rocks. However if you're doing this in Colorado then driving through the mud will absolutely expose a large number of rocks.

I do agree that the dirt itself should not show any texture at scale sizes. I wonder if using a brush to make streaks of clear glossy over the top would give the appearance of still-wet mud?


----------



## lajrmdlr

Shdwdrgn said:


> It depends greatly on the location. If you're driving through a corn field in Iowa, then yeah you would not be seeing any rocks. However if you're doing this in Colorado then driving through the mud will absolutely expose a large number of rocks.QUOTE]
> Drove many dirt roads in CO in both mountains & flats. The public dirt roads are usually graded frequently. CO dirt roads rarely turn into mud baths because it doesn't rain all that much. Even very high humidity never gets above 15%!


----------



## tankist

That dirt road looks passable to me. probably more of an off-road route though as gravel and packed dirt roads I traveled on didn't have that deep of a wheel ruts even when somewhat wet. 

I am not sure at what level of finish author aims for, but it doesn't look out of place to me.
Looks very good infact. 

Thanks!


----------



## Shdwdrgn

lajrmdlr said:


> Drove many dirt roads in CO in both mountains & flats. The public dirt roads are usually graded frequently. CO dirt roads rarely turn into mud baths because it doesn't rain all that much. Even very high humidity never gets above 15%!


The current humidity reported at the airport is 23% and it will come up to 60-80% at nights. When I mentioned the rocks I was thinking more along the lines of off-road trails in the mountains rather than your standard country roads (although as you get up closer to Wyoming some of those roads become nothing more than a dirt path between fields and rocks are more likely to be found). Even so, if you find a dirt road around here with standing water and someone spins their wheels in it, I'd give them about a 50/50 chance of finding a rock below the surface. Take a look at any new housing development as they are bulldozing but before they start building and you will see nothing but a field of rocks laying in the dirt. Maybe it just depends on how close you are to the mountains?

I'm just saying that Nikola's scene with rocks could be appropriate depending on where he is trying to model, and it reminds me of some fields I've seen set up as temporary parking lots where nobody actually cleared away the debris.


----------



## Nikola

Dudes, thank for all of the good discussion on the rocks. Many good points have been made.

On 'scale' soil (dirt), I wonder what that would look like in 1/87 scale. Maybe just print it at 300 dpi? 

Whatever, I am striving for as much realism as I can achieve within the very tight constraints I have, which are, again: no money to buy anything and repurposed field expedient materials and techniques.

As far as where I am modeling, I don't know. It is 'somewhere'. But it has this old mine / quarry and will have deep ruts and sun-baked secondary (or tertiary) roads (spoiler alert: i think I am able to do sun-baked).

I have indeed driven the back country in Wyoming where there is a kind of path that instantly changes to deep ruts, mud puddles, washouts, and large rocks.

I hope to make some more progress this weekend, plus more and better photos will be forthcoming. I think it is 'good enough' but we will see what you all think.


----------



## lajrmdlr

A real grain of dirt is <0.001". Divide the by your scale ratio & tell us if dirt texture can be seen from a scale 100'-200' away.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

lajrmdlr said:


> A real grain of dirt is <0.001". Divide the by your scale ratio & tell us if dirt texture can be seen from a scale 100'-200' away.


Hmm that gives me an idea... You want something that you can shape before fixing in place, but it needs to be an ultra-fine powder that you can get for no cost. What about the ash left over from burning logs? Can you use a white glue mix to fix in in place like ballast? Could you put down a layer of hair spray and then dust the area with the ash? Can it be colored easily? I don't know any of this, but it could be fun to try and work with it.


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> Hmm that gives me an idea... You want something that you can shape before fixing in place, but it needs to be an ultra-fine powder that you can get for no cost. What about the ash left over from burning logs? Can you use a white glue mix to fix in in place like ballast? Could you put down a layer of hair spray and then dust the area with the ash? Can it be colored easily? I don't know any of this, but it could be fun to try and work with it.





lajrmdlr said:


> A real grain of dirt is <0.001". Divide the by your scale ratio & tell us if dirt texture can be seen from a scale 100'-200' away.


You guys are making sense. If you need material that fine, just shoot a dry coat of spray paint.

It might not be scale to use something with a texture that can be seen, but just as water does not scale, sometimes 'practical' and 'looks reasonable' join forces.

I mean, we are agonizing over the size of our soil, but our tracks have parallel joints with rail joiners. Some (shudder) add a rail in the middle.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

Nikola said:


> Some (shudder) add a rail in the middle.


Well, some of my track has a third rail near the middle, but that's because I run dual-gauge. Who would be silly enough to add a random third rail just to avoid wiring a reverse-loop? :cheeky4:


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> Well, some of my track has a third rail near the middle, but that's because I run dual-gauge. Who would be silly enough to add a random third rail just to avoid wiring a reverse-loop? :cheeky4:


Can not be! You must be Lion!


----------



## Nikola

I've done quite a bit of work and taken a lot of photos.

The work has been to complete the heavy lifting in the quarry area and the upper 'parking' area in front of the station spur.

This will span several posts.

Time to get cracking:

First is to complete the berm that separates the dirt road from the stream area. I brushed the loose rocks that will lie in the stream bed into the center of the stream area. You can also see what the area looked like before I began to pour the berm.

















I mixed some joint compound with Behr Swiss Brown paint to make a slurry and poured the berm. I laid it in a thick ribbon and let gravity shape it accordingly. To make a smooth transition, I wet the tip of the artist's brush and dabbed along the edges. This broke the surface tension of the glob mix and made a nice transition.

























Then I shook on soil, covering it well, and then let it cure overnight.


----------



## Nikola

On to the other end of the layout. This is the lower right corner as you face it. It is where a dirt road crosses the tracks, where the top of the rails are at grade (everything covered with dirt).

I had previously applied several thin coats of joint compound to fill the 'valley' immediately adjoining each side of the rails in this area. You might recall, way back a ways in this thread, where I cut out the cardboard so that the track and ties were lowered into the 'ground' - the top surface cardboard. 

I used joint compound to fill in the center and on the sides such that things were fairly level straight across. Not perfect, I want to maintain the little dips and crests as in real life, but fairly flat overall.

An old credit card worked perfectly as my squeegee or putty knife.

I used an old pilot wheel set to recut the flangeways after each coat. These wheels were the old-fashioned steel pizza cutters, which was perfect for clearing the flangeways.

I also pressed in several puddles, dips, and wheel ruts as the JC cured. I lightly sanded it all when done to remove any tool marks.

Now I was left with a perfectly white surface. I guess great for a winter scene! But I needed to color and coat it and was not sure what do to.

Therefore, I just forged ahead one step at a time without really knowing what would come next or how I would use the few raw materials I have to work with.

I first mixed up a thin batch of Swiss Brown latex paint. Added a few drops of dishwashing soap, and liberally applied it, first wet brushing but then globbing it on to permit it to pool and puddle. A nice thing about pooling and puddling (as opposed to brushing) is that nooks and crannies fill, low spots look realistic, and (with such a small layout) I could tilt and prop the corners to get the paint to flow where it was needed.

The pictures below show this.


----------



## Stumpy

Good technique for making the top of the rails at grade. I'll do something like this in my maint. yard.


----------



## Nikola

Stumpy said:


> Good technique for making the top of the rails at grade. I'll do something like this in my maint. yard.


Thanks. Here are a few teaser shots of where it is as of a few days ago. I still have many progress pictures to post.

I am especially proud of the varying colors and textures. Darker where the cars drive, wheel ruts at the point the cars cross the track, puddles, that sort of thing. It actually looks richer in person, colorwise.

This tiny layout is a lot of work. I can't imagine how you all do it on the larger layouts.


----------



## trainmeup

Ya I liked it too. Cool


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## Stumpy

Like.


----------



## Nikola

Time for the wayback machine.

Will begin posting pictures of work previously completed.

























Before I could pour my Varathane Polyurethane clear satin stream I needed to dam the ends so that the liquid would more or less stay where it was supposed to (in other words, not flow underneath the inner structure of the cardboard layout).

I ran a bead of acrylic caulk - the stuff we use to affix roadbed - along the one end, and made wooden dams for the other two sides.

This is the front area of the layout under the elevated turnout.

The wooden dams are wide coffee stirrers colored with a brown Sharpie. Nothing but the most exotic materials and supplies for me!

When I poured the polyurethane, a little seeped past the dams but it was no big deal as the leaks were into a hidden part of the layout.


----------



## Nikola

Here is a description of how I often handle paint cans. Perhaps some of you will find it useful.

A problem with paint cans is spillage. Can make a mess pouring or even stirring. Wastes material and if you are working out of a non-workshop like I am, well, bad news.

Then there is the problem with certain paints, for example POR15 that catalyze when exposed to moisture. Open to the humidity in the air will begin to cure them, so you need to use it all quickly in one event. A single drop of sweat falling into a can of POR15 will spoil the entire can. This is a reason that POR is usually sold in very small cans.

I address these issues by not opening the can. So how do you use it?

Instead of opening the lid, I poke one or two holes in the lid with an awl. I have a large can of POR at home that I have used for years without it curing in the can. I pour out what I need through the holes and immediately seal the holes with tape. Let the tape use the little bit of drip as an adhesive, and next time poke a hole in the tape. Rinse and repeat.

I store paint cans upside down, turning occasionally, and shake the crap out of them when I need to use it. Have not had a problem with the pigment not mixing adequately with the solvent.

Anyway, for my layout I had an additional issue. I needed to precisely pour the polyurethane (Varathane Polyurethane satin finish) in exactly the right place and quantity for the stream on my layout.

So, I used a short length of plastic straw (apologies, California!), sealing it to the lid with a bead of Gorilla glue. A second small hole opposite let the polyurethane flow smoothly through the straw, and the straw let me reach under overpasses and into nooks and crannies.

I left the straw in place and have sealed it and the vent hole with masking tape. A month later, no problems and the poly is still liquid inside the can, with no leaks. If I ever have to remove the straw I can pull it out and still seal it with tape.

Pictures follow.


----------



## Vincent

Nikola, that is a very useful tip.


----------



## Chaostrain

I see two very useful tips here. I never dreamed of small holes and tape for storage. Thank you very much for sharing.


----------



## Nikola

Vincent said:


> Nikola, that is a very useful tip.


Thank you, my friend.


----------



## Nikola

Chaostrain said:


> I see two very useful tips here. I never dreamed of small holes and tape for storage. Thank you very much for sharing.


Glad it might be of some help!

Here it is prior to poking the vent hole.


----------



## Nikola

Next are some shots of the stream area right before I poured the polyurethane 'water'.

First off, what am I modeling? The area in question is intended to be a sandy area that is fairly flat with gently rolling hills. There is a small, lazy stream. To the side of the stream is a dirt road at a slightly higher elevation and with natural banked separation from the stream. BUT, the area is sometimes flooded, and the road gets muddy, and anyone off-roading there will leave deep ruts. And when the sun dries it out, the mud cracks. There is an abandoned mine - the stream floods it - when the mine was active the area was dammed but the dam is either long gone or no longer maintained.

It is a rocky area as well.

I have seen areas like this in Wyoming and even gotten caught in a flash flood (that showed up each evening as the summer sun melted snow up the mountains). I can tell you that flash floods are no joke, but that is another story.

I redistributed the rocks in the area with a dry, flat artists brush. A very light touch is needed. I also blew through coffee stirrers (two end to end to make it longer) to distribute the fines. I even created a meandering path with double paths in spots, just like could occur in real life.

The below pictures show this prior to the polyurethane going in.


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## MatroxD

Your attention to detail and reproducing those details are awesome.. Something we less experienced hope to get to one day.. Have you taken any full shots yet? I'm know I'm dying to see what all your hard work looks like together

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

MatroxD said:


> Your attention to detail and reproducing those details are awesome.. Something we less experienced hope to get to one day.. Have you taken any full shots yet? I'm know I'm dying to see what all your hard work looks like together
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Thank you. Very kind. I am no pro. In fact, I have not done anything this intricate in a good 50 years, and not even then, quite frankly. I guess it is just a lifetime of thinking about it and life experience at play.

I will post an overall soon. The entire thing is quite small!


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## MatroxD

Nikola said:


> Thank you. Very kind. I am no pro. In fact, I have not done anything this intricate in a good 50 years, and not even then, quite frankly. I guess it is just a lifetime of thinking about it and life experience at play.
> 
> I will post an overall soon. The entire thing is quite small!


It looks good, whatever the last time (if) you did this amount of intricate level of work. And I look forward to your full shot.. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

MatroxD said:


> It looks good, whatever the last time (if) you did this amount of intricate level of work. And I look forward to your full shot..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Your wish is my command!

Here are current overall pictures.

As you can see, the entire layout covers little more than three floor tiles.

Most of my landscaping efforts so far have been in the quarry area and the lower left corner where the tops of the rails are at grade and flush with the surface of the layout. 

I built the elevated track (removes as a unit) prior to landscaping the area underneath and it needs to be tweaked to properly fit. A bit of a do-over.


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## MatroxD

That looks sweet! And that you built it out of boxes as a base, that's awesome! It looks good, really good.. Lol, do you use magnifying glasses to work on it, because my eyes aren't even that good..

Seriously, keep up the good and excellent work! Inspiring! 


Edit h, and thanks for the tips! Working great on mine! 


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

MatroxD said:


> That looks sweet! And that you built it out of boxes as a base, that's awesome! It looks good, really good.. Lol, do you use magnifying glasses to work on it, because my eyes aren't even that good..
> 
> Seriously, keep up the good and excellent work! Inspiring!
> 
> 
> Edit h, and thanks for the tips! Working great on mine!
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Thanks! The boxes that form the base are just stacked. No attachments.

The long skinny box under the layout is used to store supplies and whatnot.

The layout itself just sits atop it all. I carry it over to the 'kitchen' (small eat-in counter with the sink) when I work on it as the lighting is better and the counter is a bit higher than standard.

Have not needed magnifiers yet - but we all do eventually!


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## Nikola

More way back! 

Finally, shots of pouring the stream.

I used Varathane Polyurethane satin. Why? Because the least expensive at Home Depot.

Again, 99.9% of the choices I make in the materials and supplies I use is because either FREE or CHEAP or EXPEDIENTLY REPURPOSED!

I poured the polyurethane from the can using the 'straw' technique previously described. I used a medicine dropper to apply pure rubbing alcohol to the spots where I wanted to kill the surface tension / meniscus, or to get the thick mixture to flow into nooks and crannies.

Since water seeks its own level, I permitted the liquid to overflow where it wanted. It provided a serendipitous and realistic effect of a stream overflowing its banks to fill in low spots.

As needed, I tilted and chocked the layout this way and that to get the material to flow where I wanted. So very easy to do with a layout this small and light.


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## Chaostrain

It looks like spilt milk.


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## Nikola

Chaostrain said:


> It looks like spilt milk.


It certainly does. But it dries clear. It does soak in and shrink. I have at this point applied 2 1/2 applications (details to follow) and I think I will need one more to finish it off the way I like.


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## MatroxD

Nikola said:


> More way back!
> 
> Finally, shots of pouring the stream.
> 
> I used Varathane Polyurethane satin. Why? Because the least expensive at Home Depot.
> 
> Again, 99.9% of the choices I make in the materials and supplies I use is because either FREE or CHEAP or EXPEDIENTLY REPURPOSED!
> 
> I poured the polyurethane from the can using the 'straw' technique previously described. I used a medicine dropper to apply pure rubbing alcohol to the spots where I wanted to kill the surface tension / meniscus, or to get the thick mixture to flow into nooks and crannies.
> 
> Since water seeks its own level, I permitted the liquid to overflow where it wanted. It provided a serendipitous and realistic effect of a stream overflowing its banks to fill in low spots.
> 
> As needed, I tilted and chocked the layout this way and that to get the material to flow where I wanted. So very easy to do with a layout this small and light.
> 
> View attachment 465026
> 
> 
> View attachment 465028
> 
> 
> View attachment 465030
> 
> 
> View attachment 465032
> 
> 
> View attachment 465034
> 
> 
> View attachment 465036
> 
> 
> View attachment 465038
> 
> 
> View attachment 465040


Great stuff! It's going to look great when it dries I'm sure! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

Trying to get caught up with some older in-progress shots.

These are a couple-three weeks old, so we are getting caught up.

Some areas are not fully cured in these shots.


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## punepassenger

Nikola said:


> Trying to get caught up with some older in-progress shots.


Amazing stuff! I am glued to this thread for learnings.

I too am restricted by space and on look out for ideas for compact HO layout and what you have achieved with limited resources is just great.

I especially liked the details related to dirt. Looks absolutely real.

Keep the updates coming! :thumbsup:


----------



## Nikola

punepassenger said:


> Amazing stuff! I am glued to this thread for learnings.
> 
> I too am restricted by space and on look out for ideas for compact HO layout and what you have achieved with limited resources is just great.
> 
> I especially liked the details related to dirt. Looks absolutely real.
> 
> Keep the updates coming! :thumbsup:


Thank you!

Here are some shots of the layout as of a few days ago. I especially like the ground-level views: when my son was little we called that 'looking low'.

I finally set the trestle assembly permanently in place. I was getting tired of not having it done, so even though there are a few details to sort out, it is now permanently in place.









A flat head nail affixes the trestle section to the top of the 'concrete' pier. The tie is then slid over to strategically cover it.

















The concrete piers are the cardboard boxes bar soap comes in, cut down and topped with a chamfered piece of cork road bed and then aged with a touch of Krylon camo paint, a wash of brown shoe polish, a little white-out, and some black, brown and gray Sharpie. The wood is coffee stirrers. 









This is where the entrance to the old mine will be. Too bad it flooded when they shut off the pumps. The retaining wall on the left is coffee stirrers glued to ta section of Pendaflex folder stiffener, which happened to fit perfectly. (See earlier in this thread.) It is stained with a wash of brown shoe polish.









This section on the left - looks like 'something' I have seen in real life. I am trying to figure out how to finish that area.









That dry, wild grass with landscape textures - is dryer lint, peeled right off the screen, and then lightly sprayed with olive drab and brown Krylon spray, and then a spritz of dilute brown shoe polish with some polyurethane and alcohol (very dilute - added a little tone and acts as a fixative). The low area of the 'grass' fills with this spritz and looks like wet areas that have not drained. I could not have planned it better if I had wanted.









If I had know that the raw edges of the corrugated cardboard were going to look so rock-like, I would not have cut it as rectilinearly as I did. Oh, well.

















Dug a hole for the trestle to the right. Filled it with rubble. There is just enough room for a 4x4 to squeeze through this area where vehicles are not supposed to be, but of course miscreants drive in to dump.


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## Magic

Nikola, you've done a lot with very little except imagination.
Well done and it's looking great.

Magic


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## Nikola

Magic said:


> Nikola, you've done a lot with very little except imagination.
> Well done and it's looking great.
> 
> Magic


Thank you! I wish the colors would render more accurately. They are a bit more vibrant in RL; taking photos with the potato that is my cell phone obviously loses something in the translation.

Here are a few more shots:

More trestle area shots.

















There is something lonely about this shot that calls to mind photos of street railroads taken at the turn of the last (great) century.









Had some areas to touch up and used a poor color match. That needs to be fixed.









Note how the rails are flush with the table top. Some wiggle in the terrain because in RL nothing is truly flat. But note that the tracks rise up to table top height beyond, and are at table top height to the left. I have several subtle changes in grade from below to flush to up atop cork roadbed.









There is always a pile of ballast next to the tracks. Here's mine.









The camera catches details not seen in RL! Time for some tweezer action.









End of the line.


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## Vincent

Very impressive, Nikola


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## Nikola

Vincent said:


> Very impressive, Nikola


Thank you, my friend!


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## 89Suburban

Nice work!


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## Nikola

89Suburban said:


> Nice work!


TY!

Now, on to the remaining bare area. Presently it is just cardboard tabletop with some brown latex and brown and olive Krylon camo misted on.

I decided that I want to experiment with contour lines to create some soft, rolling terrain.

I am using the cardboard from cereal boxes as raw material. Yay, Cheerios!! Cereal boxes ain't just for making gaskets any more!

I will be layering sections of cardboard cut to the iso or contour lines, as on a contour map, and then will fill in with joint compound. That is the theory, any way. Not sure if this will work, but whatever.

I left room for where the station building will be and started snipping and gluing.


----------



## MatroxD

Looking awesome dude! Excellent work! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Dennis461

Nikola
End of the line.
[ATTACH said:


> 465812[/ATTACH]


Your end of the line needs some finishing touches


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## Nikola

Tonight I applied the first coat of joint compound over the contoured area.

I applied the 'spackle' with a chip brush. Not too thick, just a thin scratch coat.

As I was washing the brush, I wet brushed the goop to smooth brush marks and, overall, 'glaze' it out.

I'll let it cure a day or two before applying any more as I don't want this area to crack as it dries and shrinks. 

The chip brush I used is shown. They are terrific, including for cleaning dust and dirt off a layout - even in between the rails and ties.


----------



## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Your end of the line needs some finishing touches


There you go! I think I can do that.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

Dennis461 said:


> Your end of the line needs some finishing touches


I find it interesting here that the rails do not end at the same point. Have never seen that before. It makes me wonder if the spur previously ran longer and they just pulled up some rails to shorten it later on?


----------



## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Your end of the line needs some finishing touches


For you, my friend.









Thanks for the idea!


----------



## Nikola

I just applied the second coat of joint compound. I concentrated on the inside angles, using my go-to flat artist's brush.

First I applied it with the brush. Then, as I washed the brush, I used the hot wetness to glaze it.

Will require one or two more coats, probably. You can see there are a couple places where I want to keep a ledge effect.


----------



## Dennis461

Shdwdrgn said:


> I find it interesting here that the rails do not end at the same point. Have never seen that before. It makes me wonder if the spur previously ran longer and they just pulled up some rails to shorten it later on?


Hmmm, are there tie plates on the blank spaces?


----------



## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Hmmm, are there tie plates on the blank spaces?


No. On this section of track, which is flex track, I cut out every second or third tie and respaced them. The ties that were removed were completely removed including the runners. I think you are seeing glops of the ground cover. I will have some cleaning up to do in the area as I finish the new area.


----------



## Stumpy

Nikola said:


> I just applied the second coat of joint compound. I concentrated on the inside angles, using my go-to flat artist's brush.
> 
> First I applied it with the brush. Then, as I washed the brush, I used the hot wetness to glaze it.
> 
> Will require one or two more coats, probably. You can see there are a couple places where I want to keep a ledge effect.


Looks good!


----------



## Dennis461

*Chip brushes*

Clean your chip brushes really good.
You will need them later when you plant random vegetation.


----------



## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Clean your chip brushes really good.
> You will need them later when you plant random vegetation.


What a fantastic idea! Thanks! :smilie_daumenpos:

I have also been eyeballing dryer sheets as ground cover. Spray adhesive, put in place, paint or flock. Or maybe just thin, wet glue and let it seep through to grab the flock. 

Seems to have a good texture - and they smell purdy.


----------



## Nikola

Here is the fourth time around for the joint compound (I did not take shots of the third).

Each time, less and less material is needed.

Plaster cloth or something similar would have required less time and material. But I had this small container of $3 joint compound so it was what I used.

I probably could have mixed a slurry of joint compound, water and then laminated a dryer sheet. Poor man's plaster cloth. Maybe I can try that somewhere else.

I am hoping this is the last go-round for this except for touch-ups.


----------



## Nikola

Dennis461 said:


> Hmmm, are there tie plates on the blank spaces?


Cleaned of the clumpy ground cover that happened to be right there.


----------



## Nikola

Had some nice sunlight coming in so I thought I'd try a couple of pictures. For some reason the iPhone flattens the colors. Not sure why.


----------



## Nikola

Just when I thought I was done sculpting hills, I scored.

I have been using joint compound - a small container I bought at Wally World for $3. I was running low, the budget does not support purchasing more, so I saved enough for topcoating with a paint mix (as described in a previous post).

Well, I go outside and there is a dumpster filled with construction debris - obviously, some nearby construction work under way. On top is a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound. 

"Cool", I thought, "I can use that bucket when washing my vehicle." And, the bucket was right there on top.

I took it and what do you know, the lid was still on and it was over 1/3 full of joint compound. I went over to a nearby hose bib and added water, stirred it with a stick, and now I have a limitless supply of nice, clean, goop for landscaping.

I globbed on some with the trusty chip brush tonight. Here's where it is now:


----------



## Vincent

Nikola said:


> Well, I go outside and there is a dumpster filled with construction debris - obviously, some nearby construction work under way. On top is a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound.
> 
> 
> I took it and what do you know, the lid was still on and it was over 1/3 full of joint compound. I went over to a nearby hose bib and added water, stirred it with a stick, and now I have a limitless supply of nice, clean, goop for landscaping.
> 
> 
> 
> DUMPSTER DIVING! A major source of free railroad material for many of us. And, Yes, I use it myself.


----------



## Chaostrain

I've done much dumpster diving. I've found many things I've dragged in and not just for model railroading.

Your layout is looking good. I've been enjoying watching it develop. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Nikola

Vincent said:


> Nikola said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I go outside and there is a dumpster filled with construction debris - obviously, some nearby construction work under way. On top is a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound.
> 
> 
> I took it and what do you know, the lid was still on and it was over 1/3 full of joint compound. I went over to a nearby hose bib and added water, stirred it with a stick, and now I have a limitless supply of nice, clean, goop for landscaping.
> 
> 
> 
> DUMPSTER DIVING! A major source of free railroad material for many of us. And, Yes, I use it myself.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, dumpster diving, my friend. You inspired me. Wait 'til you see what is coming up next!
Click to expand...


----------



## Nikola

Chaostrain said:


> I've done much dumpster diving. I've found many things I've dragged in and not just for model railroading.
> 
> Your layout is looking good. I've been enjoying watching it develop. Keep up the good work.


Thank you! I am glad you are enjoying this thread. It is fun doing it because it is so easy to forget how things started and developed.

I promise some more good stuff!


----------



## MatroxD

Nikola said:


> Just when I thought I was done sculpting hills, I scored.
> 
> I have been using joint compound - a small container I bought at Wally World for $3. I was running low, the budget does not support purchasing more, so I saved enough for topcoating with a paint mix (as described in a previous post).
> 
> Well, I go outside and there is a dumpster filled with construction debris - obviously, some nearby construction work under way. On top is a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound.
> 
> "Cool", I thought, "I can use that bucket when washing my vehicle." And, the bucket was right there on top.
> 
> I took it and what do you know, the lid was still on and it was over 1/3 full of joint compound. I went over to a nearby hose bib and added water, stirred it with a stick, and now I have a limitless supply of nice, clean, goop for landscaping.
> 
> I globbed on some with the trusty chip brush tonight. Here's where it is now:
> 
> View attachment 466882
> 
> 
> View attachment 466884


Excellent catch! I am so afraid honestly of "wilder beasts" around here, that I don't care even dive myself any longer(that and bed bugs). And in my complex, they are always updating the homes. But some of the people I see, Mnnnn.. Lol, nah..

But great catch man! Looking great as always! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

Getting tired of these accursed hills. Everything is stretched out because awaiting the JC to dry.

Decided to add a peak as opposed to the previous plateau. Used the roll of cotton from a vitamin bottle to build it up.

Can't wait to complete this to move on to other things. 

So, I started working on other things while the hills dry thoroughly.

I found a small, clean piece of sheet rock right atop the dumpster where I found the bucket of joint compound. No dirt, no bedbugs (yuch!!).


I broke off some pieces to create the rock wall in the area i previously called the catacombs. It was cool looking but not prototypical (well, maybe for bombed-out WWII-type structures). So it all came out to make room.

I glued a couple of pieces of flat cardboard to form a smooth base that was higher than the finished grade in the quarry area.

Then, stated stacking rough cut (broken) sheet rock. They are glued to each other but not attached to the layout.


----------



## MatroxD

That looks great! I really like the stacked sheet rock and the image it conveys.. I like how all that your doing is creating "levels and depth". On top of that, it looks ultra realistic.

You have a great eye dude.. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

MatroxD said:


> That looks great! I really like the stacked sheet rock and the image it conveys.. I like how all that your doing is creating "levels and depth". On top of that, it looks ultra realistic.
> 
> You have a great eye dude..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Thanks! I *was* going to carve the front, leaving the levels but making them less orderly and exact, as I really liked the dry and crunchy look of the raw, broken sheet rock. I figured the first thing to do was to butter the back with joint compound since, like Mt. Rushmore, each level was very narrow and, therefore, fragile.

Well, I goofed up and buttered the front! Doh!

So that also gave me a chance to use dryer sheets as a reinforcement. Kind of like fiberglass mat and resin, only a used dryer sheet and thinned joint compound.

Results below: (I did also butter the back! LOL)

























The above photos are after the first butter coat. The below photos are with the dryer sheet under a second butter coat, and after spray painting.

























I finished it with Krylon camouflage spray paint - very thin, dry coats fogged on. First tan overall, then highlights (lowlights?) with brown (but with the piece upside-down so the paint came up from the bottom) and then a little tiny spot mist of olive.

I am not completely happy with the end result as it is way too 'smooth'. I hope I can figure out a way to sharpen it up a bit. Maybe some drybrushing with my brown latex? Ideas welcome!

Also, this is the back side of the front of the layout, so it is not an area easily seen.


----------



## MatroxD

Wow! I wish I could do something like that. It looks awesome imho! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Lemonhawk

You could try taking a wire brush to the wall to make rock structure. Just have to find the wire brush in that same dumpster! Were all watching with interest!


----------



## Nikola

Lemonhawk said:


> You could try taking a wire brush to the wall to make rock structure. Just have to find the wire brush in that same dumpster! Were all watching with interest!


That is a pretty good idea!

I also think that it might look better upside down on account of how I painted it. 

Luckily this piece is removable, so I can do over.


----------



## Nikola

The layers and layers of goop finally dried, and I finally got tired of 'just a little bit more', with more days for it to thoroughly dry. The good news is that there was but one little shrinkage crack, so I did not sand ir do anything. I dove into topcoating it.

I had this quart od Ace Hardware latex paint that I have had for a while - they used to have 'free quart of paint' Sundays, and I would typically pick up something that might come in handy. This color is called 'Dinosaur' and, why would someone not get a paint color called 'Dinosaur'? 

It is a green-brown, kind of olive drab perhaps. I first dabbed straight Dinosaur paint around the edges. I dry brushed some up the sides of the slopes just because it looked cool.

The rest of it got covered with a goop mix I had mixed a while ago. It is thinned joint compound, Dinosaur paint, and a touch of Swiss Brown. The joint compound gives thickness and texture.

This is just a first coat. There is more to come. Not sure what, but I will know what it is when I do it.

































The reason I used plain paint around the edges was that I did not want those areas to get any thicker.


----------



## Nikola

I did some work on the grassy knoll today. I first painted the edges in plain Swiss Brown. Then I mixed a thin mixture of goop, Swiss Brown and sand. I did the edges and a little up the slopes, following the terrain with this.

Then I made a mixture of goop, Dinosaur, Swiss Brown (very little), sand and water and did the uppers on the grassy knoll.

I then mixed a tiny bit of that with more Swiss Brown, still with sand, to try and soften the transitions from brown to green. I think I will have more to do.

In amongst all this, I mixed very thin Swiss Brown to touch up the various gouges and oopsies, and where I had to remove material for the wheel flanges to clear..

Lastly, I used a flat brush with hot water to soften various spots.

I will let it sit overnight and we will see how it looks tomorrow.

All of the hill now has that fine sandy texture. Small boulders are easy to pick out - just poke them with your finger while everything is still wet, and they stick to it for removal and the wet paint wicks to cover the gap.









Awful lighting, and the green looks very flat. Not sure why. I guess it is a limitation of the camera on the potato that is my cell phone.


----------



## Magic

That's looking very sharp, nice work.

Magic


----------



## Nikola

Magic said:


> That's looking very sharp, nice work.
> 
> Magic


Thanks!

I might have figured out what is causing the washed-out colors.

I have been mixing the paint and sand mixture with goop, to both extend the paint as well as provide the ability for fine texturing.

Well, I think the goop lightens the color as it dries. With the brown sections, the effect is minimal and was actually pleasing. With the green, it fades to a pastel and I am not as keen. Although even here i am torn as it does, in RL, look like the sort of sun-dried green grass that one would see out west.

But, not being one to leave well enough alone, I am going to try my hand with a very thin wash of green paint and sand, on the lightest green sections, with no goop. I will use the Dinosaur paint although I also have some latex paint of the color the military names CARC, as well as some Forest Green. So my inner artist can mix colors and really screw things up.


----------



## PoppetFlatsRR

Looking good Nik, and every day we learn. You will get it the way you want it.


----------



## Nikola

PoppetFlatsRR said:


> Looking good Nik, and every day we learn. You will get it the way you want it.


Well, darn I am trying. I just did what I said I would try. I am not sure if it clicked and came together, but I think I have to stop now.

















I used very, very thin Dinosaur with a light bristle touch of Swiss Brown and CARC here and there. Then, any place that looked blotchy or with a hard transition, I damp brushed with hot water. Then, a few dry bristle dabs of brown here and there for shadows of places the 'grass' wore thin.

I don't know if I am going to cover with ground cover or leave as-is. Time will tell.

I am spending far too much time on this. Having never really done it before, it is 90% experimentation and 10% production.


----------



## wvgca

10% production is still production, lol
looks good


----------



## Nikola

wvgca said:


> 10% production is still production, lol
> looks good


You're too kind. I was just looking at the photos at your link. What you have accomplished is amazing. My stuff is doo-doo by comparison.

I especially love the track shored up with timber, and the black and white shots. And the lazy curves, crossover: it is quite stunning!


----------



## wvgca

thanks ...
came together over two winters ...
it's a lot faster without any electrical except for the DCC


----------



## Chaostrain

It was 100% productive, 10% layout, 90% education.


----------



## Stumpy

I like the way the grassy knoll turned out.


----------



## Nikola

Chaostrain said:


> It was 100% productive, 10% layout, 80% education, 10% frustration.


FTFY


----------



## Nikola

Stumpy said:


> I like the way the grassy knoll turned out.


Thanks! It might need some old, broke-down billboard up top.


----------



## Nikola

Friends:

I have decided to place some sort of old, crusty billboard atop the grassy knoll.

I am open to suggestions as to how big it should be as well as what it should be 'selling'.

I am thinking of nasty old billboards as were seen in that movie with the three red billboards.


----------



## bohica762

Nikola I sure hope you haven't done what I usually do, get halfway there and quit! Looking good sir! We'd like to see more!


----------



## Nikola

bohica762 said:


> Nikola I sure hope you haven't done what I usually do, get halfway there and quit! Looking good sir! We'd like to see more!


Hey, thanks! It has been a good six weeks since I have had a chance to even touch the layout.

My son is sending me a bunch of balsa wood left over from his many Science Olympiad projects. Plus, some tube paint I can use to weather. Once it all arrives I hope to get back into this.

I need to complete the bridges, add a little scenery around the edges, and build some structures.

Thank you for digging this up! I appreciate the interest.

PS: I still need input on how large to make a billboard!


----------



## Nikola

Time for a change of pace. On to rolling stock, which on my little layout will be perhaps 4 pieces, total.

This old caboose runs perfectly around my sharp curves. But it is just too long. And I really don't see a need for a caboose.

But a work car - now we are talking.

I decided to create a near clone of one I built many years ago, as a kid.

My son said it was all right for me to cut this one up.

I will be losing the doghouse / clerestory.


----------



## Nikola

Well, the shell popped off easily enough and there are two nice weights inside. Perhaps a reason why it tracks so well on my tiny layout with its 8" radius turns.

I marked the cut lines with blue tape.


----------



## Nikola

Dang, that was easy.

I used the same razor saw I did so many moon ago.


----------



## Nikola

Normally, when sectioning an item a great deal of effort and angst is associated with making perfectly even and square cuts in search of that perfect hairline seam.

I took a different approach. We'll see how well it works, if at all.

My approach was to embrace slightly imperfect edges and the fact that that perfect hairline seam would never happen. I instead will use filler and backing.

Note that the edges of the body were chamfered to provide more tooth for the filler. Just like welding!

I cut some cardboard (let's hear it for cereal boxes! they are not just for making thermostat housing gaskets any more!) such that it filled the inside of the caboose top to bottom, and was a scoche longer. By cutting two perfectly square and equally-sized pieces of cardboard, the resulting splice would be true.

I super glued the cardboard in place. First, both walls and then, the underside of the roof.

Now I have a perfectly square cabin. Plus, backing for the filler.

I plan to use epoxy as the initial filler and then, my trusty joint compound (of which I have plenty left over from earlier landscaping).

I placed the backing over the windows. Why? I can leave it in place (painting the background), cut them out (cardboard!) or even fill them in entirely. Maybe I will drill porthole windows. We'll see.

Plenty of pictures below, taken in sequence:


----------



## Nikola

Some more pictures:


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## JNXT 7707

Interesting approach!

I'm curious how you will do the chassis - a 4-wheel bobber style? One fixed truck?


----------



## Lemonhawk

When I glanced at the first picture, I was thinking that's a terrible looking toy caboose. Now I see your actually going to make something from it! Great job so far!


----------



## Murv2

Nikola said:


> Friends:
> 
> I have decided to place some sort of old, crusty billboard atop the grassy knoll.
> 
> I am open to suggestions as to how big it should be as well as what it should be 'selling'.
> 
> I am thinking of nasty old billboards as were seen in that movie with the three red billboards.



To a person with the right sense of humor there is only one thing that belongs on a grassy knoll...


----------



## Nikola

JNXT 7707 said:


> Interesting approach!
> 
> I'm curious how you will do the chassis - a 4-wheel bobber style? One fixed truck?


I will shorten the chassis but long enough to have the cabin at one end and an open flat area out yonder. It will still have two trucks. I am not yet sure of how much I will bob the chassis.


----------



## Nikola

Lemonhawk said:


> When I glanced at the first picture, I was thinking that's a terrible looking toy caboose. Now I see your actually going to make something from it! Great job so far!


Thanks! But next comes the hard part. So far I am just making an ugly caboose uglier.


----------



## Nikola

Murv2 said:


> To a person with the right sense of humor there is only one thing that belongs on a grassy knoll...


Apparently you and I are going to be riding the bus to the same bad place, as that was what I was thinking when I started calling it that.


----------



## Nikola

Mixed up some JB (I had some on hand) to fill the gaps. It flows well.


----------



## Gramps

This is really interesting, I can't wait to see the next photos.:thumbsup:


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## Nikola

Gramps said:


> This is really interesting, I can't wait to see the next photos.:thumbsup:


Your wish is my command!

Tonight I spent a few minutes on just one side.

The below sequence of photos shows the progression, starting with the cured epoxy, beginning to file (using a flat ******* file), then switching to 400 wet or dry (I used dry only because a little less mess) , finished sanding with all of the high spots gone but some valleys with the epoxy, and then a very thin skim coat of joint compound (using my scale ruler as the putty knife).

This will be left to cure overnight. The JC will shrink, so the process will be repeated as many times as needed to achieve an acceptable, flat finish.

I am not sure if the finish will be painted, or some sort of applique (such as laser printed wood slats, or maybe even thin actual wood). I actually have an idea that might reproduce the raised seams that were present in the original caboose. (It is too much work to attempt to save them - same for the grab rails - so they are gone).

































Interesting tidbit: all of the above work, including stopping to take photos, required less than 20 minutes.

The roof detail will be removed and covered as I want a thin, flat card stock roof that is curved from the centerline downwards to the sides.


----------



## Nikola

Since my last installment I filed and sanded the extraneous detail from the roof and sides, covered with a skim coat of joint compound, blocked, skimmed, blocked, skimmed, rinse and repeat.

It was not as bad as that; maybe three or four iterations.

Once I cover with a guide coat of paint I will be able to see if this is fine or if more needs to be done.

Sanding was done with well-worn 400 paper and a very light touch. Filing was done with a wood rasp (for rapid removal of the catwalk) and a flat *******. All three of the above because this is what I have.

Complicating this is that I am not sure if I am just painting the shell, or covering it with different material (thin balsa walls and card stock roof).

I will figure out what I am going to do when I do it. LOL.









































It is interesting that the cell phone photos highlight divots and other flaws not as apparent in RL. I will address them if I decide to only paint.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

Have you considered making this a wood-sided work car? I have an old caboose that I sanded down to remove all the original 'steel' details from, then using a knife blade I scored vertical lines down the sides to create wood slats. If you were to use some sandpaper to add 'grain' to the slats, I bet the divots in your filler would just blend in as part of the detail of the wood.

Another idea I just ran across this week (need to do more research on it though), someone glued kleenex to their roof, then painted it a dull black-grey. I think they said this was supposed to represent a canvas roof on a caboose, although I've never heard of that before, however it came out looking pretty good.


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> Have you considered making this a wood-sided work car? I have an old caboose that I sanded down to remove all the original 'steel' details from, then using a knife blade I scored vertical lines down the sides to create wood slats. If you were to use some sandpaper to add 'grain' to the slats, I bet the divots in your filler would just blend in as part of the detail of the wood.
> 
> Another idea I just ran across this week (need to do more research on it though), someone glued kleenex to their roof, then painted it a dull black-grey. I think they said this was supposed to represent a canvas roof on a caboose, although I've never heard of that before, however it came out looking pretty good.


Yes, I sure have! Last night I threw some paint on it just to see. I will post pix. It looks OK, but not as good as I would like.

Now I have some very thin balsa sheet. If I can scribe plank lines on, as you suggest, then I can stain it and the stain will prefer the scribed lines, making the planks stand out. That is the theory, anyway. I am thinking I will try it but I need to figure out how to easily and uniformly scribe the lines.

I was thinking of card stock for the roof - it actually does not look too bad now, as you will see - but the idea of using tissue is intriguing, so maybe. If I do perhaps with seams and overlaps as well.


----------



## Nikola

Well, that stinks. My cell phone took a dive and seems down for the count. So cannot post any pix until I sort that out.


----------



## Nikola

Got my phone working, or limping along, I should say. It's an iPhone that is spontaneously rebooting. Will be the last Crapple tech I ever purchase, but I digress.

Here are pix of the shell after a quick and thin paint wash. Roof is Grimy Black and walls are Ace Hardware Dinosaur.

































With some wet sanding this could look great, but as in the previously stated I am thinking of covering with wood.


----------



## Nikola

I was thinking of simply painting the shortened cab for the work car. Or of covering the roof with card stock and the sides with cardstock or wood.

But why these standard ways? I get a kick out of trying new things and exploiting the raw material I have available.

"If only I had a source of thin, stiff, easily formed sheet metal" I thought as I sat there drinking a beer. Hmm, let's use the beer can! Empty the can (the fun part), rinse, cut open, and voila, a roof section that already has a suitable curve!

OK, what is this? A short section of HVAC aluminum tape. Peel away the paper backing and presto, aluminum that self-sticks onto steel ductwork. I could stick it on the sides and then paint it.

But wait! I love the look of corrugated stainless siding; reminds me of the awesome R-32 subway cars from the 60s in NYC. How to scribe the corrugations?

I thought about using a scribe but that seemed tedious, to do it one by one. I instead grabbed a towel (?) clamp from my precision tool stash. Nice, fine teeth. I grabbed the aluminum tape between the jaws, squeezed just enough, and drew the tool along. I overlapped a couple of teeth as I went to make it easier to space and keep things straight. Does not look too bad!

Stuck the tape on the sides of the cab. Used a scribe to burnish out the window and - serendipity - the inset and smooshed tape makes a great-appearing glazed window! (There is a cardstock backing behind the window from when I originally spliced the shortened cab back together. See an earlier post.)

Next, cut the roof square and to size. I used a straightedge and a glass cutter. The little wheel scores the aluminum, A few passes and you can fold along the score and presto, a clean edge with no burrs.

I cut the roof a little wider than needed and used the glass cutter but only made a few light passes. This folds the excess edge up without cutting it off. Made a perfect drip edge.

I painted the ends with a water-based paint. Very thin; Brunswick Green. I use an old, empty K-cup to hold some water so I can re-wet the brush as needed while painting. The paint jar sits in the nether end of the oil filter that came off when I changed the oil in my truck today. I sometimes whizz-wheel the filter apart to look inside. The end, washed and dried, makes a great mixing cup, holder for screws when working on something, etc. I hate waste.

I will paint the doors with something else. Thinking White-Out, thinned, as should be easy to age.

I then lightly sanded the outer surface of the roof to remove the marketing hype and applied two coats of very thin water-based black paint.

I will let everything set up and move on to shortening the chassis.

A lot of pictures follow.


----------



## Nikola

More pictures associated with the preceding post:

















































I don't think I will paint the sides. And will likely even leave the numerals as they look somewhat industrial.


----------



## Fire21

VERY clever!!! Now, work out a tool to use for making corrugated sheets for us N-scalers!! LOL!


----------



## Nikola

Fire21 said:


> VERY clever!!! Now, work out a tool to use for making corrugated sheets for us N-scalers!! LOL!


Ouch! That's a challenging one! What I have *might* be ok for a N scale corrugated tin roof. But the thickness of the tape might make it unlikely to be able to emboss siding at N-scale tinyness.


----------



## Nikola

I decided to bob the chassis 5 scale feet. It is just the width of the 'tool box' underneath. I arrived at this by looking at how the overall unit might lay out.

I marked lines with a silver Sharpie.

Cut with a razor saw. Styrene cuts easy! I used a straightedge as a guide to get the saw started nice and straight.

Cleaned up the burrs with an X-Acto.

Pressed the two weights into service as a surface plate and fence so that the two halved could be glued with everything square, flat and aligned.

I chamfered the top edges by scraping with the X-Acto. This reduces the amount of surface area for the butt joint, which I glued with styrene glue. This loss will be offset later on.

The reason is that regardless, the butt joint is going to be weak. This is really phase 1 and is to keep the parts in alignment for what will follow, which will be using epoxy. I will wipe epoxy into the chamfered edge up top as a filler. I will fill the area in between the chassis crossmembers underneath with epoxy.

And, the top will be decked with wood and that will add tremendous strength.

I used clamps and binder clips to hold it all together. I will let this cure overnight.

Moar pitchers:


----------



## Nikola

A few orphan pix that did not fit in previous uploads:


----------



## Magic

Some very clever solutions to some difficult problems.
Looking good

Magic


----------



## Shdwdrgn

Fire21 said:


> VERY clever!!! Now, work out a tool to use for making corrugated sheets for us N-scalers!! LOL!


How about using the cutting edge of a roll of scotch tape to score lines in aluminum foil? Or cut the head off a long screw with fine threads, then you can roll the screw across the foil. You might also be able to get lines by using the corner of a course file (use an old one that isn't too sharp). Even a spring from a stapler might work.

To make sure the foil stands up to handling, put down a heavy layer of glue and put the foil in place, then use your scoring tool to work across the surface from one side to the other. You will push out the excess glue, but also leave glue under the raised lines of foil. Once the glue dries it should support the new shape.


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> How about using the cutting edge of a roll of scotch tape to score lines in aluminum foil? Or cut the head off a long screw with fine threads, then you can roll the screw across the foil. You might also be able to get lines by using the corner of a course file (use an old one that isn't too sharp). Even a spring from a stapler might work.
> 
> To make sure the foil stands up to handling, put down a heavy layer of glue and put the foil in place, then use your scoring tool to work across the surface from one side to the other. You will push out the excess glue, but also leave glue under the raised lines of foil. Once the glue dries it should support the new shape.


These are good ideas.

I'd bet that one can find fine-threaded hardware in a size small enough for N-scale corrugations.


----------



## Mr.Buchholz

Nikola said:


> I'm not a fan of switching layouts, so continuous running it is.


Not even one or two small sidings, or a short spur?

-J.


----------



## Nikola

Mr.Buchholz said:


> Not even one or two small sidings, or a short spur?
> 
> -J.


Oh, those are fine. Note I have even have a spur on my little layout.

I am talking about pure switching layouts. I could have made one in the little space I had available for this layout. They can look amazingly real, and I can appreciate them, but they have no appeal for me at all.


----------



## Nikola

More work on the little gang car! (BTW, what is the correct name for this sort of rolling stock?)

Now that the undercarriage has been bobbed and epoxy-filled underneath it was time to install the decking.

I used a Dremel to remove a few protrusions and extraneous material from the top surface of the chassis so that I had a flat surface to deal with.

It turned out that I needed zacherly 3 1/2" long deck strips. I had some very thin wooden coffee stirrers that are fairly straight-grained.

I cut the first with a razor blade and then used it as a master for each successive piece. I needed seven in all.

I super-glued each strip in place, working from the outside in. The reasons was that I knew it was not going to be a perfect integer number of strips and I did not want a narrow strip along either edge.

I needed to cut an eighth piece. I 'ripped' one narrower with the razor blade.

By eye, I ripped the second to fill the gap, including a slight taper. Fit pretty good! Maybe in a former life I was a cooper.

Now you can see there were some gaps as well as the surface not being perfectly smooth. Wooden floors never are. I could not rent a floor sander small enough, so instead I used the razor blade as a scraper. This surfaced the deck and as I went along, brush the sawdust into the cracks and seams. Just like doing an oak floor in real life!

One end did not look as good, so that is where the cabin body will go.

I cut two side caps. Each was a 64th shy of 2" long and super glued to the plastic edge of the chassis.

Now the cabin and chassis were brought together for the first time. I am kind of liking it. I have to decide what to do about those pesky ladders and maybe even the grill at the distal end.

I will have to stain the wood and I am leaning to brown liquid shoe polish as I used elsewhere on the layout.

Comments, criticism and suggestions welcome. And Happy Christmas!!!

























(This site and my new phone are not getting along so I will have to spread the pictures over several posts.)


----------



## Nikola

A few more:


----------



## Nikola

And more:


----------



## Nikola

Pushing the envelope - trying for just one more:

































Success!


----------



## Magic

Looking good. :smilie_daumenpos:

Magic


----------



## Nikola

Magic said:


> Looking good. :smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> Magic


Thanks! Nothing like what you do. I have been reading through your thread, start to finish. You do amazing work!


----------



## Nikola

It is more or less finished.

Here is what I started with:









Here it is now:

































Some final details will follow in the next post.


----------



## Nikola

Some final notes:

I have to decide what to put on the flat bed. Spare rails, cargo, maybe build a wrecker boom? Needs something and open to ideas.

I decided against leaving the sides natural as I came to my senses that it should not look like a subway car. 

This was my first-ever attempt at weathering. I followed Martin T's technique as he recently posted on YouTube with a little poetic license to accommodate the supplies I actually have on hand. The base coat is very thin Testor's flat green, then I used the sponge technique with black, brown, red and yellow acrylic, then a light wash of dirty paint thinner, and then dusted with the same soil I used from my front yard, which is the same as the soil used to landscape the layout. Very dry topcoated with a light dusting of hair spray.

The roof was sanded, painted with water-based grimy black (very thin), then dry brushed with stove polish, then dusted as above, and the hair spray - very dry and thin.

The undercarriage is dry dusted with the soil.

The flat bed is weathered with the dirty paint thinner, grabbing a little old pigment and working it in, then dry brush stove polish, and then dry brushed with dusty soil. And the same light hair spray.

A progress photo below - I was working too quickly to have taken more.

This is not a professional weathering job, not at all like you guys pull off, it is simply my first attempt at actually doing what I have read about so often.


----------



## Chaostrain

Very nicely done! Bravo! :appl:


----------



## Murv2

How about a stack of signs that say "Do not remove"? You could cobble together a simple derrick out of straws, thread and wire.


----------



## Nikola

Chaostrain said:


> Very nicely done! Bravo! :appl:


Thank you!



Murv2 said:


> How about a stack of signs that say "Do not remove"? You could cobble together a simple derrick out of straws, thread and wire.


Maybe also one that says "Stay Off The Grassy Knoll"? 

I will probably start with some sort of load that doubles as weight (can hide an additional weight inside the body) but I like the idea of building a derrick! Maybe out of dominos.


----------



## Stumpy

Nikola said:


> More work on the little gang car! (BTW, what is the correct name for this sort of rolling stock?)


I call 'em work cars. As in, for doing work on the track/railway.

Nicely done work car!


----------



## Chops

Wow! I've always found small layouts intriguing, and this is one of the very best I've seen. Amazing what you've done using low end materials. I've been wanting to do a small operational diorama sized layout for a while now, and this one sets the bench mark. The water logged siding is an effect I've not seen before, and you pulled it off perfectly. If you would, please post an updated picture of the entire layout, to date. You did one about midway in all these remarkable posts, and it would be nice to get a step back and see where it is now.


----------



## Chops

Your efforts spurned me to pick up some 15 inch radii off eBay
today, thank you for that. The tightest I've ever wrested flex
track is to a nine inch curve for a 2x6 trolley layout, a real 
flange squealer. The Bachmann PCC will take it, barely, but
even the four wheeled AHM trolley won't hack it. 

Using your thread as a guide, I have in mind something
1880's, maybe 3x3, maybe 3x4 at the most. Reasonably 
certain the American Types and the short wheel base will 
tolerate that. The remaining question is East or West. West
is kind of cliche, so thinking of East, but undecided yet. 

One of (many) unique features of your layout is the internal
switching spur. That is an elegant and brilliant touch. I'm favoring the dog bone twist you created, not sure if I want to add in that internal spur, yet. With that dog bone twist, the
plain oval element is broken down, and with your scenic 
tweaks, the whole circuit doesn't look so repetitive.


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Wow! I've always found small layouts intriguing, and this is one of the very best I've seen. Amazing what you've done using low end materials. I've been wanting to do a small operational diorama sized layout for a while now, and this one sets the bench mark. The water logged siding is an effect I've not seen before, and you pulled it off perfectly. If you would, please post an updated picture of the entire layout, to date. You did one about midway in all these remarkable posts, and it would be nice to get a step back and see where it is now.


Thank you! I have been doing some more work with 'wet' rails, or should I say roadbed, and will post pictures as soon as I am a bit further along.

I have found it challenging to post pictures of the entire layout. Maybe if I place it on the floor. It is so small that at tabletop height the pictures of the entire thing no looka so good.



Chops said:


> Your efforts spurned me to pick up some 15 inch radii off eBay
> today, thank you for that. The tightest I've ever wrested flex
> track is to a nine inch curve for a 2x6 trolley layout, a real
> flange squealer. The Bachmann PCC will take it, barely, but
> even the four wheeled AHM trolley won't hack it.
> 
> Using your thread as a guide, I have in mind something
> 1880's, maybe 3x3, maybe 3x4 at the most. Reasonably
> certain the American Types and the short wheel base will
> tolerate that. The remaining question is East or West. West
> is kind of cliche, so thinking of East, but undecided yet.
> 
> One of (many) unique features of your layout is the internal
> switching spur. That is an elegant and brilliant touch. I'm favoring the dog bone twist you created, not sure if I want to add in that internal spur, yet. With that dog bone twist, the
> plain oval element is broken down, and with your scenic
> tweaks, the whole circuit doesn't look so repetitive.


I think an early American layout would be the tits! The Bachman 4-4-0 American locos definitely will take smaller than 15" curves - ask me how I know. And the cars are shorter, so they take the curves. Some of them have those goofy plastic knuckle couplers, and they are the problem as they do not articulate as well so they like to derail the car or disconnect. Also, the Bachman early 4 wheel caboose is a non-starter because the axles are too far apart (at 9" curve radius).

Three feet is plenty wide. I think a 32" door would suffice, cut to length. Use flex track down to 14" radius and you will not know the difference.

Your kudos are very kind and appreciated. I am not a pro and what I do, it is a lot of basic research because I have not really done this before nor do I have the talent, resources and experience you all do. I have a lot of respect for folks with large layouts because this tiny one is a lot of work.

I think my next layout scenery work will include components made of steel, because I have some. Will make weathering to appear rusty simple! Because it will be. LOL.


----------



## Chops

*Opening the door*

Thank you for the suggestion of the door. That would be 
bang on perfect: it's light and the bracing is neatly 
tucked inside and will strongly resist sagging and warping. 
The soft wood veneer will greatly facilitate fastening the track down. Now I can hardly wait to make a trip to a lumber salvage 
yard. 

I ordered up some 15" Atlas curves, just to make my life 
a little simpler. On the trolley layout, with its nine inch radii, 
it was a lot of trial and error to get it to set up. Twenty years
later, when setting up for an exhibition, I was horrified that the tension pried up a joined section within the curve, causing the trolley to derail every lap. No amount of bending or pushing or super glue would get it to sit down reliably. 

Minutes to spare, I snatched a small truck, and super glued it just to the edge of the rail, so that every time the trolley hit the bad joiner, the little truck ricocheted it back onto the rails in such a manner as to be unnoticeable. I can be brilliant when I have to.

I've acquired a quantity of 12x12" styrofoam packing slabs, about 1.5 inches thick. This would provide the base for scenic elevations. However, if a small timber trestle were to be worked in, then it would be necessary to affix the track upon the styrofoam. 

People do this all the time, but a lot of glues, even 
Elmer's white glue, dissolves styrofoam rapidly (not my first attempt using styrofoam base, and never got it right). Anyone recommend a suitable fixative?

As to my presumed experience, hah, I have much of that, but
not the rigorous attention to detail that you have. I fail to recollect anyone having done wet rail, either.


----------



## Eilif

For a fixative, will plain old latex caulk work?


----------



## Kieta

This was a great reading your progress! Great work and I love the idea of using what you have to make it work. As I am doing the same now.


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Thank you for the suggestion of the door. That would be
> bang on perfect: it's light and the bracing is neatly
> tucked inside and will strongly resist sagging and warping.
> The soft wood veneer will greatly facilitate fastening the track down. Now I can hardly wait to make a trip to a lumber salvage
> yard.
> 
> I ordered up some 15" Atlas curves, just to make my life
> a little simpler. On the trolley layout, with its nine inch radii,
> it was a lot of trial and error to get it to set up. Twenty years
> later, when setting up for an exhibition, I was horrified that the tension pried up a joined section within the curve, causing the trolley to derail every lap. No amount of bending or pushing or super glue would get it to sit down reliably.
> 
> Minutes to spare, I snatched a small truck, and super glued it just to the edge of the rail, so that every time the trolley hit the bad joiner, the little truck ricocheted it back onto the rails in such a manner as to be unnoticeable. I can be brilliant when I have to.
> 
> I've acquired a quantity of 12x12" styrofoam packing slabs, about 1.5 inches thick. This would provide the base for scenic elevations. However, if a small timber trestle were to be worked in, then it would be necessary to affix the track upon the styrofoam.
> 
> People do this all the time, but a lot of glues, even
> Elmer's white glue, dissolves styrofoam rapidly (not my first attempt using styrofoam base, and never got it right). Anyone recommend a suitable fixative?
> 
> As to my presumed experience, hah, I have much of that, but
> not the rigorous attention to detail that you have. I fail to recollect anyone having done wet rail, either.


Doors are great - they take track nails really well - the only issue is that you can't run wires inside because of the cardboard honeycomb within.

I wonder if coating the styrofoam with thinned joint compound would work. Cheap and easy, and the joint compound veneer would take anything.


----------



## Chops

Joint compound. Will add that to my shopping list! As to wiring, one something this size a couple of drop wires affixed to the bottom is all that is needed. :smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Joint compound. Will add that to my shopping list! As to wiring, one something this size a couple of drop wires affixed to the bottom is all that is needed. :smilie_daumenpos:


I have a couple of large, wide-mouthed plastic jars from pickled eggs. Add a dollop of JC and then thin to taste. It keeps well in the jar and you can even have more than one of different consistencies. You can also add some latex paint and fine sand. I did this on the 'high plains' section of my layout, and also on the grassy knoll.


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Wow! I've always found small layouts intriguing, and this is one of the very best I've seen. Amazing what you've done using low end materials. I've been wanting to do a small operational diorama sized layout for a while now, and this one sets the bench mark. The water logged siding is an effect I've not seen before, and you pulled it off perfectly. If you would, please post an updated picture of the entire layout, to date. You did one about midway in all these remarkable posts, and it would be nice to get a step back and see where it is now.


Still do not have a good shot of the overall, but here are some close-ups:

Here is an area where water collects in a low spot where an abandoned track was torn up when the spur was redone. The water collects and undermines some of the newer spur. 

The water is straight Modge Podge and the thin Modge Podge cocktail previously described, applied with a spritzer bottle. The meniscus is handled with tiny drops of rubbing alcohol. Some smears of acrylic paint (brown, tan, orange, black) both dry brushed and very wet (water) brush to make it look yucky and stagnant.


----------



## Nikola

Some shots of the quarry area:


----------



## Nikola

Tonight I returned to work on some of the rough edges. This particular corner had never been done. I used some styrofoam sheet (from the packaging of the workbench mentioned in another thread) and cut it with scissors and a razor blade. The edges by the tracks were chamfered. I glued it with a few drops of Gorrila glue. As I added layers, I also used short pieces of toothpicks as nails. When done, I painted with the very thin joint compound colored with Ace Hardware Dinosaur latex that was left over from previous work. This seals the styrofoam and hopefully controls the horrible schnubbles that this type of styrofoam produces.

When this coating cures I will do something else, not sure what, will probably include sand.


----------



## Nikola

I don't think I ever posted these:


----------



## Nikola

Question for youse guyz:

What do I do about this switch machine? I should have removed it before I laid the track I need to cover it or something but I am not sure how.


----------



## Chops

Love that work car. Mmm, the switch machine...perhaps a coating of your sand mixture, leaving the rounded servo part protuding? 

Water effects look very squishy and stagnant. Speaking of stagnant, who in the world eats pickled eggs??? Or that many??? Only time I saw them consumed was on some Paul Newman film where he is a down and out attorney eating them with shots of whiskey... for breakfast.

Thanks for the tip on adding sand to the JC, that will be perfect for what I have in mind. I assume the dilutent is water?


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Love that work car. Mmm, the switch machine...perhaps a coating of your sand mixture, leaving the rounded servo part protuding?
> 
> Water effects look very squishy and stagnant. Speaking of stagnant, who in the world eats pickled eggs??? Or that many??? Only time I saw them consumed was on some Paul Newman film where he is a down and out attorney eating them with shots of whiskey... for breakfast.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on adding sand to the JC, that will be perfect for what I have in mind. I assume the dilutent is water?


LOL, thanks. Yes, cut the JC with water. You can cut it very slightly all the way through pancake batter down to paint consistency or even a wash. In this thread I previously described how I found a 5 gallon bucket in the dumpster where construction was being done. It had some JC still in it. I added water to that to keep it wet in the bucket, and decanted some into plastic jars. Each jar has a different viscosity and some is colored with latex paint. Coloring helps because if you ever get a little scratch or something the layout does not poke through white.

I keep the jars with my landscaping supplies, err, I mean random stuff I have latched onto.

Technically, the eggs in question are not pickled. They come hard-boiled, de-shelled, and packaged in vinegar. I have been eating keto / Atkins / paleo -- my own version -- for over 15 years and it is not easy to find good quick meals or snacks. These eggs require no refrigeration although I do keep the jar in the refrig. So, they are really hard-boiled with a tinge of vinegar taste that I actually quite enjoy. 

Last night before I retired I figured that I would look for trouble by trying something that would ruin things. I grabbed the jar with the thinnest JC mixture - I guess really thin pancake batter viscosity - will almost flow like water. It needs mixing as the JC will settle so I shake the jar well.

I then grabbed a couple of tri-fold paper towels - like in the wash room at work - dipped them in the JC sludge and draped them over the still-not-completely-cured prior, thicker, green JC mixture. Worked with finger tips and then with stabbing motions from a dry chip brush. A nice thing is that I was able to drape the excess paper towel around back where it will hopefully add rigidity to the styrofoam stack. Poor man's fiberglass!

This morning it looks like this.









Somehow through all this I did not get anything on the previously completed items. I will have to add more ballast on the distal side of the rails to fill the gap to the styrofoam.


----------



## Chops

Sounds good. What happened to the rail to the left of the cut?


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Sounds good. What happened to the rail to the left of the cut?


You mean by the switch machine and stagnant water? The original track plan was different - see earlier in this thread - and one day I ripped it up and swapped the switches around. That is where the original track was cut into the cardboard deck.

Instead of landscaping over it I took a shot at standing water and added the existence of the old roadbed into the narrative.


----------



## Chops

Your great micro layout is spurring me on to make my own attempt, posted under Layout Design. I got that hollow core door, which took me on an interesting side trip to a location called "Harte's Mill Crossing," in El Paso, which I intend to model for effect. 

I don't know why I never thought of using a hollow core door, that has been around a while, and it is the perfect base board: rigid and light. 

I examined Joint Compound, and it has a ketone base, which to my understanding is a perfect solute for Styrofoam, so I didn't use it, but you did? A Google search turned up Gorilla Glue, which works fine, but doesn't have the thin property of JC that used to such good advantage to combine "wetness" and soil. 

I am unfamiliar with Modge Podge. This is good for water effects?


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Your great micro layout is spurring me on to make my own attempt, posted under Layout Design. I got that hollow core door, which took me on an interesting side trip to a location called "Harte's Mill Crossing," in El Paso, which I intend to model for effect.
> 
> I don't know why I never thought of using a hollow core door, that has been around a while, and it is the perfect base board: rigid and light.
> 
> I examined Joint Compound, and it has a ketone base, which to my understanding is a perfect solute for Styrofoam, so I didn't use it, but you did? A Google search turned up Gorilla Glue, which works fine, but doesn't have the thin property of JC that used to such good advantage to combine "wetness" and soil.
> 
> I am unfamiliar with Modge Podge. This is good for water effects?


Hi my friend:

The styrofoam I used is that horrible, cheap, brittle, white stuff that generates zillions of fine styrofoam pills. The joint compound did not attack it in any way. I also tried a new trick with the paper towels. That also worked, but I guess the important point is that the straight joint compound did not affect the styrofoam at all. I was in a hurry to get all of the styrofoam covered with JC to seal it, which it did and helped the mess.

Modge Podge is a product I learned about on this forum. It seems great for water effects but i am by no means the expert. There are plenty of threads here plus utube videos that cover this stuff. I splurged on a small bottle I found at Walmart in the crafts section.

Glad you like the hollow core door idea. We have been using them for years. We have some that have Lionel track on them - used for Christmas layouts - off season I screw them upside down above the area where the garage door opens, as that is wasted space. I also built a small HO layout for my son, with my son, when he was little. I would imagine you can even cut through the outer skin, scoop out some cardboard scaffolding inside, and be able to use the inner surface if you want to make a water scene or something.


----------



## Chops

Thank you for the tip, I used Styrofoam packing from some emptied containers that are, also, brittle, and make lots of nasty little pills, as well. 

I will splurge on some JC and try it on some scrap to see what happens. It looks like you have achieved substantial result with it. Tomorrow: off to the Rio Grande with shovel in hand. With luck, will not get arrested by the Border Patrol.


----------



## Chops

Got me a little bottle of JC tonight. Going to put a dab on some scrap Styrofoam and see what happens...


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Got me a little bottle of JC tonight. Going to put a dab on some scrap Styrofoam and see what happens...


See my reply in your thread. I believe we might have a confusion regarding the joint compound. What I am using is commonly called spackle, and it is water-based. I believe the JC you have is for cleaning PVC pipes before gluing. That for sure is solvent-based and not surprised that it eats styrofoam.


----------



## Nikola

Here is the current state of these two 'mountains'. I am experimenting with painting techniques to improve the appearance. I think the smaller one will be more brown/green to align with the infield, and the taller one more gray/black/brown to align with the quarry. But I really don't know much about painting like this and I am not an artist.


----------



## Nikola

Needed to reballast the track by the Mounds of Venus and thought I would try something new.

I took some of the fine soil / sand I have been using - the material collected from outside when the property was doing some landscaping. It is very fine and gray in color.

I shoveled it in between the ties using the flat side of my trusty, wide artist's brush, and then swept it along. I added enough such that the soil was flush with the top of the ties.

I then added a homemade mixture of tan touch-up paint (courtesy of my landlord), a little black latex paint (made it gray), some brown latex paint (made it gray-brown), water, modge podge (not too much), rubbing alcohol (a lot), and a drop of dishwashing liquid.

I applied this very wet mixture with a medicine dropper, flooding the area in between the rails, and letting it soak in. As it did the level of the soil in between the ties shrank down a bit.

After it dried for a bit I then used a damp stiff brush to wash much of the paint off the top of the ties. As the brush picked up paint I redeposited it along the outside ends of the ties.

This is how it came out. Maybe suitable for those seldom-used sidings. Of course, it is on my main line, LOL.


----------



## Nikola

I am really pumped about this.

There was a workbench thread not too long ago where one of us posted a workbench that Walmart had on sale for $49. (There is a photo of it in the thread.)

In that thread, I replied that I had one of those very workbenches and I, too, had found it on sale at that price.

That deal had dried up a while ago at my local store.

Well, the other day I saw that they had four more on the sales floor, and again at $49. I went home, thought about it a couple of days, and decided to pull the trigger on one. I returned to the store, all four were still there, and I grabbed the carton that seemed the least beat up.

Took it home, put it together, and it is my new layout stand. No more sitting my layout on cardboard boxes. It is at a better height, and the LED light, while not color-correct, is terrific for working on the layout.

A few of you have asked for some overall photos of my layout. With my previous setup it was not easy to do so. Here, finally, are some shots that show the current state of my layout. It also helps illustrate how small it is as it just barely overlaps a workbench.


----------



## Nikola

A few more shots:


----------



## Magic

Your benchwork cost more that you spent on the entire layout less trains.  

Magic


----------



## Nikola

Magic said:


> Your benchwork cost more that you spent on the entire layout less trains.
> 
> Magic


LOL. So much truth there. Excepting that switcher that I got for a few bucks from someone here, the rolling stock has been in the family forever. That trolley is from my yout (not youth, you).


----------



## Chops

Thanks for posting, Nikola. Your close ups are amazing and hide just how micro your micro layout is. I've been using a number of your techniques on "Harte's Mill Crossing" to good effect, starting with the hollow door sawed in half. 

When I get done with this, will go to work on the "John Bull" micro layout, using some flex track in the manner you have described.

Waiting on the automatic reverser for the subway tube layout to come from Britain.


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Thanks for posting, Nikola. Your close ups are amazing and hide just how micro your micro layout is. I've been using a number of your techniques on "Harte's Mill Crossing" to good effect, starting with the hollow door sawed in half.
> 
> When I get done with this, will go to work on the "John Bull" micro layout, using some flex track in the manner you have described.
> 
> Waiting on the automatic reverser for the subway tube layout to come from Britain.


Thank you as I am honored if anything I have done is useful for you. Soon I need to begin on structures. I want very few - maybe one. I want to echo photos one sees of street railways or rural rail lines taken between the 1880s and the 1910s, when there was track laid but hardly any infrastructure at all. I will definitely make a station for where the trolley is sitting in the one closeup.

I am totally loving your idea of a John Bull and NYC subway mini. There is so much incredible detail that can be added to the subway station or tunnel - lines, pipes, signals, trash, all sorts of things.

Please post up as you move along.


----------



## Nikola

Chops, I had to take some pictures that show where my mine is. 

The tracks would have crossed the 'road' and ended up somewhere, with a slight curve, along the rear rock wall.

Half the road and the mine is flooded because no one has run a pump there in, like, forever! 

I will build some sort of timber mine entrance. Boy, if you can use actual mine wood, that is absolutely awesome.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

If you're keeping things minimal, rather than a station for the trolley you could do a simple covered platform. Maybe a loading dock at the end of the one spur (could even be a broken-down, weed-covered wood structure), a small shack by the raised spur, and some kind of crop field or grazing pasture (cows, horses, etc) to cover some space?


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> If you're keeping things minimal, rather than a station for the trolley you could do a simple covered platform. Maybe a loading dock at the end of the one spur (could even be a broken-down, weed-covered wood structure), a small shack by the raised spur, and some kind of crop field or grazing pasture (cows, horses, etc) to cover some space?


Yes, I like that. I collected a bunch of photos of various types of minimal, back-country stations and they have these traits in common that you mention. Small size, simple construction, loading area, at least a partial roof overhang, etc.

Coincidentally, last night during the game I started laying out a simple structure along the lines you suggest. Great minds! It will have an enclosed waiting room and adjoining platform. The waiting room is maybe 8 x 12 scale feet, the overall will be about 22 scale feet long and the width will be maybe 12 scale feet. More or less - kind of working by eye.

I wonder if I can make a broke-down loading dock to cover that switch machine. I guess one could have a loading dock straddling a switch.


----------



## Shdwdrgn

What about a pile of rocks or a long flat boulder, scultped to cover the switch machine? And actually just a few such flat boulders scattered around might help spice it up a bit?


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> What about a pile of rocks or a long flat boulder, scultped to cover the switch machine? And actually just a few such flat boulders scattered around might help spice it up a bit?


Good ideas that are also possible; maybe some of each. Unfortunately the switch machine in question is freakishly tall and large. I should have removed it before locking everything in place.

Maybe a loading dock can cover the taller section and rubble the rest of it. Good ideas!


----------



## Shdwdrgn

So what's going on with the layout? Haven't heard from you in three months!


----------



## Nikola

Shdwdrgn said:


> So what's going on with the layout? Haven't heard from you in three months!


LOL, took a quarter off.

I have done nothing on the layout. Started scratchbuilding a station, finished one little way, and have not touched anything since.

I am getting the urge to create a HO diorama for a bookcase shelf in my office.

Because I need to start more projects I never finish. LOL.

Maybe if I start poking around here I will get the urge again.

Thanks for checking in!


----------



## Chops

Well, Ima Nikola Fan. Haven't done jack on any of the micro layouts I envisioned, bought parts for, either. Finally got the subway electrical sensors and a a needed chip, but haven't turned a wheel. 

I'll be watching for progress, Nikola! Hey, how well does that 
little gem run? Could you shoot up a little video?


----------



## Nikola

Chops said:


> Well, Ima Nikola Fan. Haven't done jack on any of the micro layouts I envisioned, bought parts for, either. Finally got the subway electrical sensors and a a needed chip, but haven't turned a wheel.
> 
> I'll be watching for progress, Nikola! Hey, how well does that
> little gem run? Could you shoot up a little video?


Thanks!

Sounds like we are both in the model rr doldrums.

Last time I ran it -- months ago now -- that little trolley was running perfectly. I should be able to make a vid. What is the recommended approach? Utube?


----------



## 65446

*Might someone explain...*

I was about to add a suggestion about making a mock up main line RR thru the scene, yadda yadda. A few words in I noticed the thread began in 2018 and is all within 2018, until today's posts (except mine) ?
How/why does this occur time to time where an old thread begins again with new posts as if it's a week old, and not, say, a year, sometimes 2-3 years old ? 
My only guess is that a member comes across an older thread but doesn't notice the OP date and makes a reply thinking it is a recent OP. This in turn kicks it up to today's date where I/we come in, also seeing it as new..No ?.:dunno:


----------



## Nikola

telltale said:


> I was about to add a suggestion about making a mock up main line RR thru the scene, yadda yadda. A few words in I noticed the thread began in 2018 and is all within 2018, until today's posts (except mine) ?
> How/why does this occur time to time where an old thread begins again with new posts as if it's a week old, and not, say, a year, sometimes 2-3 years old ?
> My only guess is that a member comes across an older thread but doesn't notice the OP date and makes a reply thinking it is a recent OP. This in turn kicks it up to today's date where I/we come in, also seeing it as new..No ?.:dunno:


A dummy mainline is a terrific idea for a tiny layout. I had decided not to do it on this one. But years ago my son and I made him a tiny HO layout on a 4 foot length of 24" hollow core door. His is a dogbone roughly similar to mine but with no sidings. It has a dummy mainline cutting across one end and was also in case we ever incorporated his layout into something larger.

The dummy mainline on mine was going to be across the width, in the middle, where the creek is. Alas there was insufficient clearance under the bridges/trestles so I nixed that idea.

You are correct about old threads and posts. Many threads go fallow for whatever reason and are resurrected for whatever other reason. The people who resume posting, post, and the thread shows up in 'New Posts' which might generate additional renewed interest. Some new threads die right away, some old threads resurrect for years. It all depends. For example, the recent Big Boy news. Folks could search for 'Big Boy', find threads on the subject that are quite old, and the thread comes back to life.

In my case I spent a few months away from this place and, by coincidence upon returning, saw that an old friend had recently posted. I don't do email notifications: if I had, I would have known as soon as any thread on which I am OP has a new response.


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## 65446

Nikola, thanks for explainations. But I think I didn't get my point across..A thread is old. And since it's old by months/years, how does it get noticed and/or loaded into today's posts since it's not (yet) visible on the 1st pages of recent posts ? Is it what I guessed; that someone is surfing the pages and doesn't notice the date of the OP and so continues to reply not realizing it's not new or even quite old ?


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## Shdwdrgn

@telltale - I'm the one that kicked this post, specifically because I have been following his progress with the layout and then he suddenly stopped posting. I was simply curious whether there had been any further progress. My new post in this old thread was what brought it back to the front page for you.

However I know what you're talking about... I frequently see a new person with only handful of posts commenting on a thread that is several years old. Why? My best guess is they don't want to start a new thread of their own so they dig up whatever old discussions they can find that may vaguely reference the subject they want to talk about. Honestly it's quite rude to do that, especially since in almost all cases their new discussion really has nothing to do with the old thread other than mentioning some key word.


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## Chops

Nikola said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Sounds like we are both in the model rr doldrums.
> 
> Last time I ran it -- months ago now -- that little trolley was running perfectly. I should be able to make a vid. What is the recommended approach? Utube?


Youtube is what I run with. They changed up the movie editor, which used to be free, and there may be a way to upload video onto it now, but in the intermin I had to go to a fairly user friendly site called Vimeo and export my videos from there to Youtube. It would be grand to see a video. 

I am a little baffled by the posts about how this post started, page one has a first post by Nikola: 02-13-2018.


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## Nikola

Well, friends, I am still around but have not touched the layout in months. Much change; moved to Texas, the layout was super easy to move and was not damaged. I am thinking about some of the ideas on this page. We'll see if I can muster the motivation.


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## vette-kid

Very cool layout! I'd love to do a small layout in HO like this. I wander how tight you can go with an F7?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Nikola

vette-kid said:


> Very cool layout! I'd love to do a small layout in HO like this. I wander how tight you can go with an F7?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Really tight! If you have one of those special 0-4-0 F7's.


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## Shdwdrgn

Wow, it's been over a year since you posted??? I remember it like it was yesterday...


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## Gramps

Sheesh, I'm getting old, I thought it was yesterday.


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## Nikola

It wasn't yesterday???


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## Chops

You moved to Texas. I’ve been trying to leave Texas last 30 years. Well, welcome.


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## Chops

Anything new? I shamelessly plagiarized your techniques on “Harte’s Mill’ micro layout (yours is still much better), but the local museum liked it enough to exhibit it in their ‘Rails Across the Desert.’ Alas, it is still there, under lock down.


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