# Need Info on Lionel Train Set



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Just acquired a Lionel steamer set with freight cars on a sheet of 4x6 plywood, the loco is a 4-4-2, it goes chuff chuff as it moves, it is supposed to smoke but you can barely see a whiff of it.

There is a rubber tire falling of one of the drive wheels, it is supposed to be there? How can I glue it on if it is supposed to be there, train runs fine with it flopping around.

The board has a date on it of 1981, Could that mean anything? or just the date they built the board?

On top of the loco in front of the cab there is a switch, what is that for??

Is there a smoke control on this Loco?

Trying to find out all I can about this set any help is appreciated, the loco and cars all look almost brand new., the track is old and rusty, it had two manual switches and two remote switches and a manual uncoupler, the transformer is very small and red in color


----------



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Bkubiak said:


> Just acquired a Lionel steamer set with freight cars on a sheet of 4x6 plywood, the loco is a 4-4-2, it goes chuff chuff as it moves, it is supposed to smoke but you can barely see a whiff of it.
> 
> There is a rubber tire falling of one of the drive wheels, it is supposed to be there? How can I glue it on if it is supposed to be there, train runs fine with it flopping around.
> 
> ...


Forgot to put a picture of the loco.


----------



## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

need some engine numbers, you'll get more help.
smoke could need pills or fluid depending on year
lever is probably for direction of travel (E-unit)

if it has traction tires it's probably fairly new.


----------



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

cole226 said:


> need some engine numbers, you'll get more help.
> smoke could need pills or fluid depending on year
> lever is probably for direction of travel (E-unit)
> 
> if it has traction tires it's probably fairly new.


It came with a bottle of MYH Proto Smoke, you can see it in the picture, I put some in the stack but it did almost nothing, just a small puff here and there.

I looked around but did not see any numbers, where are they hidden ?
The wheel tire, is it only on on wheel? two wheels? can you buy new ones?


----------



## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

sorry, i was typing while u were posting picture.

loco number is right there on side of cab under window
tire probably one wheel only and u can buy new.
smoke element may be burned out from running dry.


----------



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

cole226 said:


> sorry, i was typing while u were posting picture.
> 
> loco number is right there on side of cab under window
> tire probably one wheel only and u can buy new.
> smoke element may be burned out from running dry.


How does the smoker work?

I turned the loco upside down to look for a number and some smoke fluid ran out of the stack, should it do that?

The number under the cab window is 8102

Where can you buy that tire and what is it actually called?


----------



## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

i am not familiar with ur loco but:
your smoke has some type heating element and either a fan or more likely a piston type plunger.
if your reversing lever (e unit) on top has a neutral position, put loco in N and turn on full power on transformer see if u get more smoke. make sure there is fluid in it, but not more than a few drops. if it ran out, likely to much.
the traction tire should be available from local train/hobby store, ebay, online lionel parts.
u might download a manual online.
hope this helps some.


----------



## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

one like yours on ebay,
says F/R only, NO NEUTRAL


----------



## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

The 8102 is late 70's to early 80's. No fan driven smoker, it's got a piston that moves up and down. I'd suspect the piston is sticking since it puffs occasionally. Since you turned it over and fluid came out it may be overfilled in which case turn it over and leave it for a bit. Typically when adding smoke fluid add about 3-5 drops and allow about 3-5 mins for fluid to absorb in to the wick (it may not have one). Run it for 2-3 mins and observe smoke, you may need to increase voltage to make it smoke more. The traction tire is easily replaced, gluing them back on seldom works well. You could try cleaning the groove and tire with alcohol and applying a very thin bead of black rtv (found at auto parts stores) and allow to cure. It may or may not work. 

Carl


----------



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Kwikster said:


> The 8102 is late 70's to early 80's. No fan driven smoker, it's got a piston that moves up and down. I'd suspect the piston is sticking since it puffs occasionally. Since you turned it over and fluid came out it may be overfilled in which case turn it over and leave it for a bit. Typically when adding smoke fluid add about 3-5 drops and allow about 3-5 mins for fluid to absorb in to the wick (it may not have one). Run it for 2-3 mins and observe smoke, you may need to increase voltage to make it smoke more. The traction tire is easily replaced, gluing them back on seldom works well. You could try cleaning the groove and tire with alcohol and applying a very thin bead of black rtv (found at auto parts stores) and allow to cure. It may or may not work.
> 
> Carl


Any idea how I can take this loco apart to service it. 

I only see one screw and that is on top of the loco, if I can get it apart does anyone have any pictures of what I should see and what the smoke mechanism should look like. And I just happen to have some black RTV on Hand to try to glue that tire on the wheel.

The tender has a speaker in it and it goes chuff chuff if I connect the wire from the loco to it. Does it also have a whistle or horn built in???


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

It should come apart with a few screws. One on top a couple on the bottom.

This is from the MPC era and was a very low end locomotive so I wouldn't expect a lot of smoke. You say it makes a chuff sound so the sound appears to work. Does your transformer have a whistle button? All the sound is in the tender so no need to take the engine apart other than to work on the motor.

Here is what I found on the MI trains site:

Union Pacific 4-4-2 Steam Locomotive w/ Tender "8102"
Manufacturer Lionel
Configuration (Black/Yellow Stripes) Union Pacific Thunder Freight 1151 Set
Category Steam Locomotive
Gauge 
Years Produced 1981-82
New $60
Excellent $49
Good $30


----------



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

areizman said:


> It should come apart with a few screws. One on top a couple on the bottom.
> 
> This is from the MPC era and was a very low end locomotive so I wouldn't expect a lot of smoke. You say it makes a chuff sound so the sound appears to work. Does your transformer have a whistle button? All the sound is in the tender so no need to take the engine apart other than to work on the motor.
> 
> ...


Great info thank you, now to answer your questions and ask a few
Nope, no whistle button
I tried to put the traction tire on with RTV and let it sit for a few hours, did not work, after about ten minutes of running it came loose and de railed the loco, so I undid the linkage and removed the tire and put it all back, it is running great, but I noticed the traction wheel is a smaller diameter the the other three, gotta get a new tire.
I guess this engine is in the almost excellent range
We can smell the smoke, but cannot see any except an occasional puff if looking real hard

What is the MPC era?
What is the MI trains site?


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You can order a new traction tire if nessasery, I thought I read about someone using small rubber bands, like in oorthodontic work, I never tried it.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lionel trains are divided into 3 categories.

Prewar is made before WW2.
Post war is after WW2 to 1969.
MPC pertains to 1970 and up trains (Modern)

I am guessing MI is for Modern.


----------



## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

MI train is an identification site. http://www.seahawksoftware.com/mitrains44/


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Kwikster, cool, never heard of that site, bookmarked! Areizman, thanks for bringing it up!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes, Thanks for the link.

I will check it out, free huh?


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

> Great info thank you, now to answer your questions and ask a few
> Nope, no whistle button
> I tried to put the traction tire on with RTV and let it sit for a few hours, did not work, after about ten minutes of running it came loose and de railed the loco, so I undid the linkage and removed the tire and put it all back, it is running great, but I noticed the traction wheel is a smaller diameter the the other three, gotta get a new tire.
> I guess this engine is in the almost excellent range
> ...



You will need a whistle button to test the whistle. I recommend upgrading to a better transformer equipped with whistle and bell buttons. For now an inexpensive sound button will do the trick for testing. Suffice it to say if you hear chuff I'm guessing the sound card is working.

Traction tires stretch out over time and even with glue they will not stay. Your local Lionel service center or a call to Lionel or the train tender should get you fixed up.

It's possible the smoke unit could use a new wick but try using a better fluid like Mega-Steam and try running the locomotive in place at high voltage.

The MPC era precedes the current Modern era and runs from 1970 to around 1985 and defines the General Mills owned era. General Mills purchased the rights to Lionel Trains from the original Lionel corporation and operated them as a toy division of their Model Plastics Corp (among other divisions). The trains made in this era are considered of very low quality as MPC treated and for the most part, built them like toys. There are some exceptions and there are numerous collectors who appreciate MPC era Lionel for the value it offers. There are also a few diamond in the ruff type pieces from this era but personally I prefer Postwar and Modern era trains.

www.mitrains.com is a free inventory tracking site that allows you to pull up a Lionel or similar train and see what the current values are and save it to your inventory.

I think you are in good shape with the exception of needing a sound button to fully enjoy these trains.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Kwikster said:


> MI train is an identification site. http://www.seahawksoftware.com/mitrains44/



Nothing free on that site, huh? :dunno:
I don't see what you can do unless you buy something?


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I joined up ed, I can look up values on there. They are not ebay prices but, I think what auctions sell them for. The prices are a lot lower then what they sell for on the bay but they are probably realistic. Let's face it, the older people get the more of this stuff floods the market, and the number of people collecting and operating are dwindling. The same is true of antique furniture, modern danish is in the old time stuff iI grew up with halved in value. Just because it's old doesn't mean it'sworth money! Forgot to say, joined forr free!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Tell me what to click to see something.

It looks like all I can do is look at nothing unless I buy MI? :dunno:

I have it opened right now, and I did sign up?


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK I found something that works, I have some pictures to look at now.


----------



## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Should need to click the login button Ed. It cost nothing to register. You may not always get a picture though some items don't have one.
Carl


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Try this link: http://www.seahawksoftware.com/mitrains44/account_login.aspx

It's free to sign up and use the cloud software. The cloud version has limited features but you can track you're inventory and reference the book value of your trains. It also lets you run a couple of basic reports.

If you want to own the software and run from your personal computer there is a charge.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Its a great link, gives you a starting point on price, I might have to try the inventory thing, I have no clue what I have anymore! I went looking for Somthing the other day and found a box of tanker cars. I forgot I even had them! My original layout was going to be strictly oil industry.


----------



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

areizman said:


> You will need a whistle button to test the whistle. I recommend upgrading to a better transformer equipped with whistle and bell buttons. For now an inexpensive sound button will do the trick for testing. Suffice it to say if you hear chuff I'm guessing the sound card is working.
> 
> Traction tires stretch out over time and even with glue they will not stay. Your local Lionel service center or a call to Lionel or the train tender should get you fixed up.
> 
> ...


Got a traction tire from the local dealer that sells Lionel and MTH .75, got it on, works great

Cannot find a sound button, any ideas, does anyone have an old transformer with sound buttons collecting dust they wish to donate to a worthy cause.

What does the smoke wick look like? where can I get one? How do you install it?

Is there a schematic of the loco available anywhere so I can see what the insides look like and how to take it apart correctly? 

Who makes the Mega Steam fluid?


----------



## Handyandy (Feb 14, 2012)

I have a 2-4-2 version of that same loco (#8703), with the Sound of Steam chuff chuff in the tender. There is no whistle in the tender as the late '70's electronics of the S.O.S take up all the room. 
JT's Mega Steam is a great product. I use it in all my locos (the MPC era 8703 being the newest one) that smoke and they smoke better than with Lionel fluid. Do a Google/Yahoo search for mega steam. You order it online. Your engine will smoke better at higher speeds, but curves limit the speed. Adding some weight to the cars to make the loco work harder will also help it smoke more, but if it's got the same smoker as mine it will never put out a lot of smoke. My cheap old Marx engines smoke way better.

I probably should get a traction tire for my loco as it runs around on an empty rim now. It still will pull a decent train without it though.


----------



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Handyandy said:


> I have a 2-4-2 version of that same loco (#8703), with the Sound of Steam chuff chuff in the tender. There is no whistle in the tender as the late '70's electronics of the S.O.S take up all the room.
> JT's Mega Steam is a great product. I use it in all my locos (the MPC era 8703 being the newest one) that smoke and they smoke better than with Lionel fluid. Do a Google/Yahoo search for mega steam. You order it online. Your engine will smoke better at higher speeds, but curves limit the speed. Adding some weight to the cars to make the loco work harder will also help it smoke more, but if it's got the same smoker as mine it will never put out a lot of smoke. My cheap old Marx engines smoke way better.
> 
> I probably should get a traction tire for my loco as it runs around on an empty rim now. It still will pull a decent train without it though.


Found some mega steam sources, What about that Smoke Wick folks are talking about, am I supposed to have something like a candle wick in there? I asked the Lionel dealer I bought the Traction Tire from, he said he had no idea what I was talking about.


----------



## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

I'd call Jeff at TheTrainTender. If anyone will know it's him.

Carl


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Allright, go to the Lionel home page,  click on customer services, there will be a drop down Window, select supplements 1-9 they should have the locos parts break down there. I don't know how to link to it. And there is a lot of stuff to scroll through!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I believe this will be the smoke unit for that locomotive: http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/18141-50Complete.pdf


----------



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Most liquid smoke units have a small round piece of insulation that acts like a wick and soaks up the fluid. If the locomotive is run for a while with a dry smoke unit the resistor will burn the wick and limit it's effectiveness. In some cases you can simply tear off the burned part or you can replace it with a tiny piece of insulation.


----------

