# Wet Behind the Ears



## icrr (Jan 21, 2015)

I am really new to all this. So, I have a *Z*illion questions. 

Let me first say the maximum space I have is 4' X 6' and that will be pushing it. I plan on building that space in 4 modules of 2' X 3'.

My first questions are these: 1) What should I use as a foundation -- I assume plywood, but what would be the minimum thickness? 2) Because the layout for each module will or, at least, may change as the layout takes shape, how can I stablize the track without "permanently" fastening it to the underlying foundation? 3) How can I determine the lengths of track sections that I will need, including curved pieces.

That's the start -- I'll try to keep my questions to no more than 3 in each post.

Thanks.


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

God bless you- I can just about see that small. 3/8 ply should be strong and stiff enough by many magnitudes for boards that size even without cross pieces. You might be able to use strategically placed double-sided carpet tape pieces to secure the track. As far as length of track pieces, I'd go flex rather than sectional if possible. Gives many more options in any scale. Experiment, and enjoy.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Consider MDF for base. Cheap. Very flat. But, heavy, doesn't hold fasteners as well as plywood.

You can hold track with latex caulk or hot glue.

If lightweight is important, consider making your base as a structural sandwich: say 3/16" ply glued to either side of 1" rigid foam.

Try a Cad layout software program to determine track. SCARM is free. AnyRail has a free limited use demo version, too.


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## icrr (Jan 21, 2015)

Thanks to you both. Lightweight is important. tj you say 1" foam. Are you suggesting something like styrene? I don't have the "tools" for hot glue. For the foam, what glue do you suggest? Also, with foam as a foundation, what material would be best for terrain (mountains, rolling hills, river valleys, gorges, etc.)?

Thanks.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

icrr said:


> Thanks to you both. Lightweight is important. tj you say 1" foam. Are you suggesting something like styrene? I don't have the "tools" for hot glue. For the foam, what glue do you suggest? Also, with foam as a foundation, what material would be best for terrain (mountains, rolling hills, river valleys, gorges, etc.)?
> 
> Thanks.


One of the easiest ways to learn about model railroading is to watch some videos on the internet. If you google things like "Build a model train", "model train scenery", or just "model trains" in general, you'll find tons of info. It's also very entertaining just to watch them while soaking in knowledge.

I have no idea how many videos exist about Z-scale, but in most cases what works in one scale also works in most of them.

Good luck! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*layout base material & temporary track fasteners*

An excellent base, used by many, is extruded styrofoam. This strong, dense, rigid foam is used as home insulation material. It is commonly available at Home Depot, Loews Etc.* This stuff comes in 4' x 8' sheets, usually in baby blue or passionate pink colors. It should not be confused with the more common, white, "bead board" type which is much more flexible, fragile, and cheaper. One sheet should be enough to make your base(s) and any mountains, river valleys , or other scenery. You might also check to see if half, (4'x4') or quarter,(2'x4') sheets are available since your layout will be small. 
I have invented & used a material I call "light-wood" made up of two sheets of 1/8" -1/4" thick Luan plywood (sold as "door skins" at home center stores. The luan sheets are glued, with white Elmer's glue, to opposite sides of ANY styrofoam (even bead board works fine.) 
This forms a strong ,light base. If you add sides of wood along the edges it can be rigid enough to act as its own table. set it on two saw horses or whatever. If this sounds like too much work to bother with, use a hollow core door, which is of similar construction, but already made. 
As for temporary track fasteners, try Elmer's glue, or water base interior house paint, direct to the base. If you need to move the track, soak it with water & use a putty knife to gently work it loose. 
Hope this helps you. Good luck











* In cold weather areas. It is quite rare in California, where I live, but can be ordered online.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good ideas from Fan, above. I like the hollow core door idea.

I think the pink or blue insulation foam from Home Depot/Lowes is "extruded polystyrene".

TJ


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## icrr (Jan 21, 2015)

Great ideas. Being retired and widowed, I live in a small, one bedroom apartnent. So, space is tight. I do have a large kitchen table that is 5' X 4' that is currently leaning against a wall with legs removed. If I ever get that far, I plan on using it for the maximum finished layout. I thought I'd do this in four modules of 3' X 2' each because of space issues. The foam betwen 1/8" plywoof sounds good, but so does the foam without the top part of the sandwich.

Some more questions: My inutial layout has about 8 turnouts. 1) is it posdible to use one switch to control two tunouts (both open or both closed)? 2) Does anyone mske a switch box for controlling multiple turnouts? 3) How do I hide the wires?

Snd one more: I'm wanting to have interior lighting in my passenger cars. I was thinking of using fiber optics, but I've never worked with it. Can you sterr ne in a good direction for the information I will beed?

Thsnks for the help abd your patiebce.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Is your choice of Z absolute or could you go to N? Z is very very tiny and challenging to work with. Rather than start with a 6 x 4 layout why don't you try a small shelf plan initially, it will help you to get used to all the techniques needed. I too am short on space and find that small table top layouts are still interesting and can be full of operating fun. Have a look at this site for loads of ideas on small layouts http://www.carendt.com Good luck.

Most wiring can be hidden by taking it under the. Baseboard. Interior lighting is best done by LEDs or small bulbs. If you want constant lighting when the trains are not moving you will need DCC system.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Just a general response ...

You should check out the NMRA (Nat'l Model RR Assoc) website:

www.nmra.org

They have a nice beginner's guide here:

http://www.nmra.org/beginners-guide

TJ


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Guide book*

I highly recommend the book, "Beginner's guide to N-scale model railroading" (even if you are modeling in another scale, like Z. The book has good simple info on the basics of , benchwork, track, engines, freight & passenger cars,(full size & model), wiring, scenery, Etc. All info devided into short simple chapters. This book is published by Kalmbach; available at ([email protected]) or your local train store. Even after many years in the hobby, I still refer back to this simple reference now and then. 
I agree with the prior post suggesting N-scale instead of Z. I don't see anything wrong with the Z-scale equipment, which seems of excellent quality; but the difference in size is relatively small. Z-scale is about 3/4 the size of N-scale. The diference between some other popular scales is double. O-scale is double the size of H.O. While H.O. is close to double the size of N. 
H.O.-scale and N-scale, in that order, are the most popular scales in the USA. They offer a huge range of products, covering everything you might need.
The rulling factor in fitting a given scale into an available space is usualy the "turn back radius." This is simply the space needed for a curve that will allow your train to make the equivalent of a U turn when driving your automobile. 
This varies with scale, of course, but not always in direct proportion. Example an 18" radius curve is a tight turn for H.O. , usually restricted to short locos and cars. In N, (or Z),
the same 18" radius is a broad curve, that can handle any size loco or car. 
You don't absolutely even need to turn back at all! Remember the prior post refering to a point-to-point switching layout. This could be built, in your limmited space, even in a larger scale. The choice is yours to make. I'm just pointing out that, even in a small space, you don't have to settle for only the smallest scale.


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## icrr (Jan 21, 2015)

My total layout is 6 X 4, but I'll be working on 3 X 2 sections. See the attached SCARM jpg file for the first section.

As far as size, my space is really restricted. I don't have enough space for all the "stuff" I have yet to get rid of. I know Z is tiny, which is why I decided not to go with T. It will be challenging, especially with my vision! Anyone have a spare jeweller's loupe? 

tj, you said the foam could be used for terrain features (mountains, etc.). Is the foam "carvable"? I though it might crumble if I tried to shape it.

The attached layout (3 X 2) has two "side" routes; one with tunnels through the "mountains" and the other (shown in green with a light blue ramp") in an S curve around the mountains but elevated. This route climbs from the ramp up to the level of the bridge, crosses the bridge and descends the second "mountain" on the second part of the S. Both the tunnel and the mountain route result in the train on the double main track, but on the one it didn't start on and also going in the opposite direction. Can this be done? What aee the problems, if any?

How do I create a smooth grade on the mountains?

I'll take a look at the NMRA site again. If Z guage is 6.5mm, what is N? I will consider N (I haven't purchased anything yet -- you caught me just in time).

Thanks to all.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

When I think of Z, I think of small, and light weight. To me, heavy plywood
and inch thick foam might be too much.

What are other Z scalers using for a base? These Zs are tiny. You could
put two or three Z locos in an HO gondola.

To get answers that would be most helpful, tell us how you plan to
support the layout. Coffee table? Dedicated bench of some sort?

Unless you plan a large layout, I would think a light fiber board,
perhaps an overlay of the 1/4" paper covered foam sheets available
in the Walmart Craft section. Probably at Michaels or Hobby Lobby also.
About 1.00 a sheet. 

Don


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## icrr (Jan 21, 2015)

In an earlier post I described what I plan to do and what the underlying support (table) for the full layout of 6' X 4' would be. However, i've decided that N scale will suit my needs and plans better. Thanks to everyone here and I'll probably "see" you in the N section.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

icrr said:


> tj, you said the foam could be used for terrain features (mountains, etc.). Is the foam "carvable"? I though it might crumble if I tried to shape it.


The extruded styrene foam won't crumble when you shape it. It's solid foam mass, unlike white styrofoam, which is essentially a mass of tiny beads of foam. The latter will crumble.

The ext styr will make dust if you carve/sand it, so have a vacuum handy. But once carved/shaped, it's quite stable.

As an option, consider making mountains/hillsides from balls of newspaper wadded up inside squished metal window screen, covered with plaster-cloth (or paper mache). Here's a great how-to thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6374

Cheers,

TJ


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

tjcruiser said:


> As an option, consider making mountains/hillsides from balls of newspaper wadded up inside squished metal window screen, covered with plaster-cloth (or paper mache). Here's a great how-to thread:
> 
> TJ


I always thought it was the other way round, papier-mâché *over * a metal screen scrim.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Isn't that what I said ???


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Can you carve extruded foam/throw two turnouts? Yes. to both.*

Extruded foam,(the dense pink or blue stuff) can be carved several ways. A knife,Dremel tool, saber saw, hot knife or hot wire cutter. The last two are electrically heated and should be used in a well vented area due to fumes from heated foam. The first three create lots of dust, so keep a shop vac handy. You may want to hold the vac's nozzle next to the cutting tool to vacuum as you go.
Throwing multiple turnouts with one button is called "route control". There are several methods. Which to use depends on what kind of "switch machine" you are planning to use to move the points of the turnouts. Commercial electric turnouts usually come with some form of "twin coil" machine; often in the form of a big plastic housing along on side of the turnout. The other option is some form of slow speed DC motor; usually mounted below the table and sold separately. One exception is Peco brand turnouts which use a sold separately, below the table, twin coil machine. 
To answer your question route control question properly, I need to know what brand of turnouts you have and what type of switch machine will be used.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Car lighting*

Fiber optics have been used for many model effects. However they can only CARRY light from some other light MAKING device. (a small lamp, or LED) Some examples would be lighting a semaphore, or other signal, from below the layout; or classification lights on a locomotive or caboose. In these cases, the lamp used would be too large to fit inside the signal or class light housing.
Since LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) have gotten smaller,cheaper, and able to generate more light, they tend to be used more. Some of the surface mount LEDs are so tiny they can be mounted directly in the signal, even in a small scale. They also generate no heat(unlike lamp bulbs) and, with the proper resistor protection will practically never burn out. allelectronics.com carries a wide selection of them.

Good luck.
Traction fan


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

icrr said:


> If Z guage is 6.5mm, what is N?


'N' scale track has a gauge of 9 mm, thus the *N* (for nine) in 'N' scale....


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## WaltP (Jan 21, 2013)

The nice thing about 1" foam as a base is you can carve rivers and valleys easily into the layout, and as mentioned, extra foam can be built up and carved into hills, cliffs, and mountains. Can't do it easily on a on a plyvood or hard base.
Here's a pic I found showing the stacking and some carving. http://www.theinsidegateway.com/PinkFoam.jpg
There's many blogs and videos that show various techniques.

To make sure you have a smooth grade, use a sturdy piece of board (or foam) as the roadbed. There are also foam strips that can be purchased that provide a grade and can make straight or curved track. See http://www.amazon.com/Woodland-Scenics-Incline-Starter-WOOST1412/dp/B000BLERNY
It comes in 2%, 3%, and 4% grades.


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## icrr (Jan 21, 2015)

Thanks. Others have suggested the same and I've been looking at Woodland Scenics stuff. It seems their foam is less crumbly than regular foam/styrene.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I'm working with a 2" foam base...allows deeper cuts for ditches, rivers, etc. You can also stack base foam to achieve 3", 4" and on as far as you want to go. Or you can go the other direction and build up as WaltP's picture shows.


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