# Layout wiring help?



## MarkA (Nov 7, 2019)

I have attached my layout. 
The red and black indicates where my power feeder joiners are on the layout.
The outside loop and the inside loop are working fine.
The position of track shown in red is not?
When I make the switch to enter or exit the portion of track shown in red the DCC shorts out. 
Is it possible to make all of the track live?
Is my wiring correct?
Is the portion in red a reverse loop?
I am using insulfrog Peco Code 80 switches.
NCE Power Cab DCC.
Please help.

Thanks,


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

Clean the track and make sure the connecttions are good. I crimp the fishplates onto both rails at every join and have no issues with power delivery to all rails. 

Good Luck


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

/looks like a fun running set up I see no reverse loop. connection is most likely the gremlin


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

The Electrofrog turnouts route power differently from the Insulfrog variety. If you only turn one of the points to diverge into that inner track, but not the other turnout's points at the same time, you will get a short.

Go to the DCCWiki site and study how the two types of turnout differ.

One way to avoid the conflict is to gap the rails at both ends, say using the ends of the frog rails as a guide, and power that inner length separately with it's own pair of feeders. That way, if one of the turnouts is not lined to match the one your using on one end, the gap at the other end won't have you in conflict. You might still need a DPDT to switch the phase on that inner gapped length though...not sure until I ponder it a bit more.


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## MarkA (Nov 7, 2019)

Thank you for the reply. I must apologize. I am using insulfrog switches not electrofrog.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Current routing turnouts*



MarkA said:


> Thank you for the reply. I must apologize. I am using insulfrog switches not electrofrog.


MarkA;

The red area on your track diagram is not a reverse loop, so don't worry about that. Peco Insulfrog turnouts are what's called a "Current routing" turnout. This means that as well as being a track switch, they are also set up to be electrical switches. Track power, if coming from the points end of the turnout, will only be passed on into the red area when the turnout is set for the red portion of the track. If the turnout is set for the other(non-red) track, the red track will not get power. Since you have an insulfrog turnout at each end of the red track, I would think that if either of those two turnouts were set for the red track, that would put power onto the red track,. If both were set for the red track, no harm would be done.
Looking again at your diagram, I see that you already have feeders to both the tracks coming out of each turnout, except one. Do you also have insulated rail joiners on both short frog rails of every turnout? If not, you should add them. 
The one turnout that does not have feeders on both routes is the one at the top center of your diagram. One route does have feeders, but the other one would only get power through the turnout at the top , and a bit to the right. It would have to be set one way for power to get through to one of the routes of that top center turnout. I suggest adding one more pair of feeders to the track between those two turnouts.

You asked if all track be powered? Yes it can. Some people do not want the current routing feature. They bypass it by putting insulated rail joiners in both of the short pieces of rail coming out of the frog. Then they wire power feeders to the tracks beyond the frog as well as at the points end. in other words, power is fed into all three pieces of track coming out of the turnout. These feeders don't need to be attached directly to the turnout, just somewhere down each of the three tracks that lead to the turnout. If you do this to every insulfrog turnout, all the track on your layout will have constant power.
Do you have a multimeter? It's a very handy tool to have in these situations. It can tell you if the rails of the red track have power, or exactly where the power is not getting through to that track. It can also determine if you have a short circuit. The meter doesn't need to be a fancy, expensive one. Harbor freight tools www.harborfreight.com sells basic meters from $5-$10 that are quite adequate for model railroad use. The photo below shows the $10 meter, I also have the $5 one, but don't have a photo of it available. 

good luck;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Check the feeder to the red outlined track, you probably have the red and black reversed.


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## MarkA (Nov 7, 2019)

*Thank you*

Thanks for all the guidence. I will keep you posted when I am able to isolate my issure and fix it.

Sincerely,

Mark


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## Loconut (Nov 7, 2019)

MarkA said:


> I have attached my layout.
> The red and black indicates where my power feeder joiners are on the layout.
> The outside loop and the inside loop are working fine.
> The position of track shown in red is not?
> ...


Reverse loops are hard to spot but I also use peco insulfrog and i think the inner section is a reverse loop. I have used powershield automatic reversers with great success. If it shorts out that is usually the culprit. Buy the powershield and it is easy hookup and you will be in the clear.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Loconut said:


> Reverse loops are hard to spot but I also use peco insulfrog and i think the inner section is a reverse loop. ...


It isn't. The reason is that the turn-around end of that inner track, at right, parallels the same type of orientation as the two outer tracks. All three turn back 180 degrees, so unless one of the many feeders is crossed incorrectly, they orientation of phase/polarity stays the same between the two end turnouts. 

Parallel means no conflict. 

Had that inner loop folded back and rejoined the same turnout that it had entered, THAT would make it a reversing loop.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I think you just have something in that inner loop wired backwards. It's easy to make a mistake working underneath the layout.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Referring to the track diagram in post 1:

I'd start by REMOVING the connections from the "spur track" in the red area.

Does that change anything?

If not, I'd remove ALL the other connections in the red area.

Does that change anything? Do trains run now?

If that works, I'd just "leave it be".


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

As has been mentioned, you have that layout wired
correctly. The Insulfrog turnouts do not require
insulated joiners...I'm afraid my friend, Tractionfan,
was thinking of Electrofrog turnouts which do require
them in the frog rails.

The reason Electrofrogs need insulated joiners is that
the frog phase changes when points are moved. Without
the insulated joiners you would have a short circuit.

Don


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