# HO Layout Help needed



## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Anybody want to help me with my layout? I have the basics on a spreadsheet, so I guess I can't upload here. 

I have a great 14x26 ft area, benches already built. Old double wide garage that used to be a house. Lots of electrical outlets. 

I've had the trains set up once before, but that was 10 years ago in another house's basement. I'm having a good time unpacking them and seeing what I have.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

penlu,
cabledawg is is our resident layout expert, and he's good, he'll probably be along shortly, maybe worst case this eve.
You need to convert your drawling to a jpeg or bpm to load it, I think you can do that right threw excel?


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

*HO layout help needed*

OK, I tried to save the RTS as a bmp.... lets see if it will load.


Guess not....


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

On the top of your reply page is a paper clip that will open a new window click browse,select file, click load, after load close window, click on paper clip again and on bottom of list insert done.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

that didn't work either.... or I may be just too dumb. 

e-mail me and I'll send to you, maybe you can get it to upload!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Or email it directly to me and I'll take a look at it. 

[email protected]_dot_com

If you have any specifics like curve radii or turnouts sizes, let me know.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Cabledawg,
She's going to send them to me later and then I'll post them for her and I'll shoot you a copy too!


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

NIMT I sent them to you and cabledawg about 10 minutes ago. Thanks!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Yep I got 'em. We'll tag team this one:thumbsup:


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Here's a pick of what you've got so far.
Were workinhg on it!


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

THANKS!!!! 
Main city will be down the middle bench with a trolley line loop. Small town in the SE corner (lower left on this view). I want to put in a freight line with mountains, mine, tunnel, etc on the W side (top on this view) with a tiny town on the NW corner. But how do I get passengers/freight from the tiny town to the city?


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I cant open the Quattro file. What all did you have in there?


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

would you be able to open an excel file? I can convert it.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Yep, I have MS Excel.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Just sent


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Got it. Very creative use of Excell.

To answer your question about getting passengers to/from, you could use a small branchline passenger service. I had a plan on my layout to use a small steam engine and two small coaches to run around the layout. Might be an option.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm doing all steam, circa 1850-1900. So far I've avoided switches as much as possible, as I remember they're the places that caused me the most trouble before. 

Hmmm.... a branch line? Maybe with a Y ? There's a thought!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I might be able to fit a small one in the corner. I havent started onthe layout yet but I should have soething for ya tomorrow.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

You do realize the scale is 1 square = 1 foot dont' you?


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

On the .bmp file it is. The .xls file looks a little different.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

The .xls file is not to scale, but it should represent the same thing. I'm not good enough with the track planning software so I do a rough draft on the spreadsheet. 

Thank you so much for doing this! I've been playing with the layout for it seems like months! Took me a long time to design the benchwork. 

PS. Nothing is laid down permanently yet. The little bit of track I actually have working is held directly to the plywood with thumbtacks.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I should be able to stick with what you have so far, I"ll just add on to come around on the other shelf.

What kind of track are you planning to use?


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

I have a bunch of both nickle and brass. Quite a bit of flextrack. Basically Atlas or Tyco. I think it's code 83 and 100.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Cool. I'll post up some stuff tomorrow. I'll do a couple different options and feel free to pick them apart.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I see we are cooking right along, See penlu I told you cabledawg would come along! I've been working on the next step by step how to, Its on tunnels and tunnel portals.. Whew speed constructing!


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

The fun part is about half way in the room there are two projecting walls, about 2 ft each, into the room.... SOLID really old brick/block/stucco. I have one hole already poked thru at bench level on the West side, but have tentative plans to poke another about 6 inches higher closer to the outside wall for another tunnel thru the "mountains."

Just got my "case" of tempera paint powder. Plan to mix it in dry with either/or/and shredded paper shavings/pine shavings ($4 each for 4 cubic yards at the feed store) then add Elmer's for "papier mache" for mountain building!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Well good, cuz the entire west side is going to need it 

Here is the first one. I tried to keep it simple with a few sidings for passenger terminals ad one for a mining camp. I kept the slopes at 3% so you shouldnt have to worry about the smaller steam trains climbing the hills. The blue track is elevated at 3.5" but I can raise it to 4" without any problems.










If this isnt what you were looking for, let me know. Feel free to make changes.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

You be da bomb! Unfortunately, I'm supposed to be working! (I work at home over the stupid computer) so it will take me awhile to digest this.

Hmmm... is there any law against sticking a passenger car in the middle of a freight train?


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## TONOFFUN80 (Jan 9, 2010)

I know here in canada they would run some passenger car at the end
of the freight trains years back


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Actually for the time era you are modelling, it was quite typical to have mixed passenger and freight trains. Had to make do with what you had back in the day


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Are you using Right Track software? How can I take what you've done and put it into my Right Track software?

PS.... you've given me lots of ideas!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I use AnyRail. Not sure if they are compatible


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Partial list of scenery I already have
barn
blacksmith shop
Cemetary
chickens/geese
Church
cottage
cottage
Country store
Depot main
Depot small
Depot tiny
farmhouse
fences
fire engines wrong era
Fire station
Frontier town
icehouse
lampposts
Lumber yard
Mine?
sedans wrong era
sheep/goats
signs
Stagecoach
Store fronts
telegraph poles
trees
Victorian housesx 12
water tower
Xmas trees
yard tower


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

I've already given away a Smith and Wesson train with a set of Quick Track... phony looking! But it's gotten another of the neighbors enthused about trains! So there is a possibility I'll have a 10yo boy and his 6yo brother playing too, so I really don't want trains with the possibility of crashing into each other! 

The other thing I have is a wonderful old time Lafayette set... but it just seems to be too fragile to put into the layout... maybe put it on a shelf by itself for display?


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

cabledawg said:


> I use AnyRail. Not sure if they are compatible


but you were able to take my plan and use it.... hum, tiz a puzzlement.

I so much appreciate all this!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I traced it. I work with maps and building drawings as part of my job so I have a few tricks up my sleeve. In this case, I was able to redraw your shelf lines using your grid (thanks!) and eyeball the track layout. So mine may not line up perfectly with yours, but it should be close enough.

As for having neighbor kids play with the trains, be sure to tell them the rules beforehand and enforce them. I have a lot of kids over and I've had only one that doesnt get it, so he isnt allowed in the basement. I've even gone so far as to make marks on the controllers to limit speed for the mainline and another mark for the spur tracks. Seems to work even with my three year old daughter.

I'm working on another design; I should have it up sometime this evening.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Took a little longer than I thought. HAd to find a good place to fit that wye in the layout. I think where its at will work well. I know here in Minot, we have a wye that cuts right through the middle of a business district, so having one that poke into town shouldnt be too out of place.










AS before the blue track is elevated, but this time at only 3" since it wont cross any other tracks. I also took out the mining camp siding, but that isnt to say I cant put it back in. I really did this one to show you that there is plenty of room for a wye on the NW corner should you want one.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

I like the wye, but logically, why would it be needed since there is a loop?


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

just trying to make it look realistic.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I probably should have asked this before, but what are your overall plans for this layout? Are you going to use DC or DCC controls? Do you want more scenery and less track? Point to point or loops? 

With this much room, a person could go nuts with track and scenery. But some folks just like to watch the trains go 'round and dont care for prototypical operations like switching and waybills. But with your time era being the early 1900's, we can keep the trackwork very simple and still look realistic. Maybe even add a roundhouse and engine service area close to the city.

Just let me know.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

LOL! My neighbor is an "older" guy (not as old as me) who is all enthusiastic. He's more interested in the operating part, I'm more interested in the scenery, so we should be a good pair! 

I don't want it to be all track, tho that could easily be done. 

Hmmm... guess I need to go look at the Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge! I guess I've had that in the deep recesses of my unconsciousness. I love that train! Wish I could afford to ride it again! They have a wye in the middle of town!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

OH I love doing prototypes! Tell you what, I'll do a little research on the D&S and see what I can incorporate into your layout area. You dont even need to keep the D&S name, but it gives me a visual to work with.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

*Train "room"*

It's bright sunshine and going to 60 degrees out there today! I'll try to get some more pix... but then I have to tear down my stupid Vista computer that goes AWOL at the drop of a hat and get the camera plugged back into my Dell... I hate computers!

This is what it looked like when the lady I bought it from had it.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

*OK, got some pix*

here are some


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

*More pix*

here's some more


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

*Train room pix*

and more


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Wow you have so much room - I think this is going to be a great layout.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Penlu, after seeing your benchwork and your interest in the D&S, I made some changes. I kept your initial trackwork and reworked everything I had done. This is as close to the D&S (minus the wye at the midway point) with major landmarks and using selective compression to fit within the layout.










You have a wye in Silverton, but it can easily be modifyed to make a loop. There is a passing siding just out of town, the back line behind Needleton doesnt exist on the prototype, but you can use it for a freelanced mining area and elevate the track into a mountain. I added United Campground on what would be the north bound track out of Durango, but is "south" of town.

And dont worry about your trolley track. The D&S still uses the locos and rolling stock from the 1900-1920 era, so you can model the trolley for that time era or even use a cablecar type setup.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

That's awesome! Actually with the history of the D&S, they didn't use locos and rolling stock as early as mine are... Oh well... we don't have to name it the D&S! (All my later locos are DOA.

Question, with that much track on the main line, will one little toy transformer work it? Or do I need to do isolated sections with plastic joiners, and can it then run off one transformer? How much track can be put in one electrical section?


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Cabledawg that is an awesome layout you have mapped here! I hope my next layout can be that large. What is the footprint on something like this? 

Penlu, Look's like you are off to a great start with tons of space! Please keep us posted with pics of your layout! I am doing the same on my WIP: thread. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5980

If you are going to do Mountains be sure and check NIMT.COMs (Sean) how to threads. He has tons of helpful building methods that he is kind enough to share with us here. My table started out OSB and flat when I started also! Great job!


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

room is 14 ft wide by 26 foot long. With an automatic garage door on the north, and two doorways from the adjoining room (we blocked off one outside walkout door). Electrical outlets everywhere! And tons of overhead lights!


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

penlu said:


> That's awesome! Actually with the history of the D&S, they didn't use locos and rolling stock as early as mine are... Oh well... we don't have to name it the D&S! (All my later locos are DOA.
> 
> Question, with that much track on the main line, will one little toy transformer work it? Or do I need to do isolated sections with plastic joiners, and can it then run off one transformer? How much track can be put in one electrical section?


One transformer can ahndle it if you install feeders throughout the layout, but with this much space and having multiple locos, Idont see why you wouldnt want to have several blocked sections and seperate controllers. I dont know much about blocking, but I know a few others on here do. Otherwise there is DCC, but you'd still need to run feeders and the initial cost of new equipment and decoders can be a turnoff.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I got bored today and decorated your layout. Its not done but its just for giggles anyways.

I also ran this layout through TrainPlayer and it took me 12 minutes to run a train from Durango to Silverton, turn at the wye and back again. That was running 10mph in town and stepping up to 20mph on the mainline. Not bad


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Wah!! All I got was the track layout pic....


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Dangit! Grabbed the wrong one! (If you're on here for any length of time, you'll notice I do this alot )

Check it again. I think I got the right one this time.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Man, you were really bored! That is awesome!

I went out yest afternoon to lay out some more tentative lines (unconnected) but ended up with my neighbor reorganizing my workshop! At least we unpacked a lot of bins and boxes and found a lot of tools and got them where we can get to em! Still have some to go.... but not near what it was! I hate moving. I'm still unpacking stuff from 3 moves ago.


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

*Layout rethink*

So, I went out yesterday and unpacked a lot of boxes, and inventoried the buildings I have. SHEESH! I gotta lotta stuff! 

It's a pretty eclectic collection. Lots of 1880s-1920s type stuff, but some modern. I have 80+ buildings!!!! And all my working locos are 1865 or before! 

So, make a "Museum" run type layout? Using the old time locos/rolling stock? Using Cabledawg's basic track layout? Try to group buildings of different eras together? Place the nonworking locos on "sidings" or on shelves above the main layout? I also have some Pullman cars that won't take the 18" curves, put them on "display" too. Nonworking trains. 

(I don't have the $ to trash it all and start over!)

Just ruminating. What do ya'll think?


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

penlu said:


> So, I went out yesterday and unpacked a lot of boxes, and inventoried the buildings I have. SHEESH! I gotta lotta stuff!
> 
> It's a pretty eclectic collection. Lots of 1880s-1920s type stuff, but some modern. I have 80+ buildings!!!! And all my working locos are 1865 or before!
> 
> ...


you could always offer it up for sale here if you want to start over with modern and then get the modern stuff you want.1865 and older sounds like something very interesting no matter what scale it is. A museum might buy it from you also and then it would all be tooken good care of and you would have the $ to go and buy the modern stuff. Just some options... The idea for the stuff if you do keep is sounds like a good plan as well. maybe make a hallway leading into the layout room where all the non working or not capable of running in glass type shelves with little facts cards and up lighting or down lighting depending on if the lighting will be ceilling or ground mounted lighting to shine on the engines. Just another thought...


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

What I was really thinking of is a layout that would be a takeoff on some of the present day "museum run" trains, like the Cumbres and Toltec, the Durango-Silverton, etc. I love the "old" stuff and don't want to go modern. I love steam! 

So, have a couple of trains doing "scenic" routes, pulled by the old timers. Kind of a history of railroading type layout. 

I have a marvelous old tyme Lafayette set I'd like to incorporate! It is very fragile. 

I could put together at least 5 separate working trains! From different eras. And then put the non working "more modern" steamers on nonworking tracks dotted around the layout. 

I know, the first thing you're supposed to do is decide on what era you're going to model. Mine is all over the place. But I love history.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

penlu said:


> I know, the first thing you're supposed to do is decide on what era you're going to model. Mine is all over the place. But I love history.


I think most people suggest a time era only to help narrow down what you want to model so you can find locos and rolling stock for that era. But there's no rules or laws on how you do your layout. Mine is a hodgepodge of stuff my kids like combined with what I can find for a good deal. And it seems to always change based on things we see or come across in other's layouts.

I think your idea of the historic train is awesome. This way you cn find modern buildings and cars, but have a few old buildings and trains to show a transition over the ages. I say go for it:thumbsup:


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Thanks! I know you worked hard on the D&S line. It's just that I have such an eclectic collection of stuff, and I'm attached to most of it! 

I have at least 5 separate "eras" a New England town, a Western Town, an English Town, and what I'm tentatively labeling as "Durango" old town and modern suburbs. Plus the main yard which is pretty much Durango old town. Oh, and then there's the trolley line. 

I love the Lafayette!


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

cabledawg said:


> I think most people suggest a time era only to help narrow down what you want to model so you can find locos and rolling stock for that era. But there's no rules or laws on how you do your layout. Mine is a hodgepodge of stuff my kids like combined with what I can find for a good deal. And it seems to always change based on things we see or come across in other's layouts.
> 
> I think your idea of the historic train is awesome. This way you cn find modern buildings and cars, but have a few old buildings and trains to show a transition over the ages. I say go for it:thumbsup:


Same here I buy what ever engine and rolling stock I want from any era and then just run them and do consists and even run them if I ever get to having operateing sessions. I guess I could just come up with excuses for it like everyone in town likes 50's cars even if it is in the modern era.

Just do what you like to do and ignore all the negative stuff you don't.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

penlu said:


> Thanks! I know you worked hard on the D&S line. It's just that I have such an eclectic collection of stuff, and I'm attached to most of it!



I did it to show you what could be done, not what should be done. It's your RR and you arent going to hurt my feelings if you go a different route. It doesnt cost me any money and I do it in my spare time so why not help someone else out if they are stumped on ideas? :thumbsup:


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## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh my. I went out and inventoried my rolling stock and locos.... I could put together 5 working trains plus the trolley! AAARRRGH!!!! Where to start!?

1	Locomotive	(Lafayette) 1837
1.1	Passenger cars	(Lafayette)
1.1	Passenger cars	(Lafayette)
1.1	Passenger cars	(Lafayette)


2	Locomotive	(Olde Tyme Freight) Jupiter #60 1868	Promintory Point loco! 4-4-0
2.1	Flat car
2.1	Tank car
2.1	Boxcar
2.1	Flat car
2.1	Caboose

3	Locomotive	682 D&RG Yellow	1870?	Denver and Rio Grand 4-6-0
3.1	Combo car
3.1	Combo car
3.1	Combo car

4	Locomotive	723 Southern Black/red	1860 2-6-0
4.1	Passenger cars	Pennsylvania RR
4.1	Passenger cars	Pennsylvania RR

5	Locomotive	Hooterville Cannonball C&FW	19th Century	Petticoat Junction Fictional 4-6-0
5.1	Pullman car
5.1	Pullman car

6	Powered Trolley


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