# Thoughts.........



## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

I am returning to Model R/R after being away for some 10 years. Since then a lot has changed as I am finding out. I am by nature "old school" on EVERYTHING in life and model R/R's are no different. My last layout was controlled by a DC MRC controller with an added sound controller for my Atlas 8-40C. Current day I am wondering if I should step away from my old school mentality and convert over to full DCC or stay with my DC (which worked perfectly for me). 

I am finding that DCC starter units can be very pricey and right now that is a huge consideration for me financially. I am just starting my benchwork so I still have a pretty good amount that will need to be spent just to get my trains running again even with my current DC controller. 

I am pretty confident with my personal pros and cons of DC vs. DCC but I would like to hear yours for comparison sake. Please share your thoughts on my situation along with your own thoughts on DC vs. DCC.

Thanks
Zack

This is what I'm using currently:


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with running DC. The wiring for a larger layout gets to be more complex, that's true, but it's tried and proven technology that has served model railroaders well for many decades. If it's what you have, and what you can afford, by all means go with it!


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

flyboy2610 said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with running DC. The wiring for a larger layout gets to be more complex, that's true, but it's tried and proven technology that has served model railroaders well for many decades. If it's what you have, and what you can afford, by all means go with it!


Part of me would like to be able to control multiple DCC engines at one time with ease but again, I am so used to the basic DC stuff I feel it would be a bit out of my comfort zone possibly. I am however quite sure once I learned DCC and got used to it I would really prefer it. Decisions, decisions, LOL. 

Financially, I could purchase a DCC starter unit but that would set me back on my benchwork and track layout for a while.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

That is where DCC will shine is in running multiple trains. Separate signals are sent
to separate locomotives. DC is fine till you are exposed to DCC. To me controlling
sound is a big deal with DCC. Yes, I like to blow the horns. This is just my suggestion.
Skip DCC for now and get the bench work going. You got to get some trains running.
Don't get into complicated wiring knowing that someday you want to go DCC and that the
wiring will be much easier in DCC, It might be a little thing, with DCC the headlights stay nice and bright at any speed. With DC as you slow the train the headlight dims. You are curious about DCC so you know you want it but it can come later. Part of the building
process.


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

mopac said:


> That is where DCC will shine is in running multiple trains. Separate signals are sent
> to separate locomotives. DC is fine till you are exposed to DCC. To me controlling
> sound is a big deal with DCC. Yes, I like to blow the horns. This is just my suggestion.
> Skip DCC for now and get the bench work going. You got to get some trains running.
> ...


Good advice. Thanks. I agree, maybe in the future, I can move over to DCC because I too like the little things like the lights staying bright.:thumbsup:


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

won't you need to wire blocks to control locos on different parts of your layout?

with DCC, you can avoid all that wiring and extra switches.


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## luvadj (Jul 3, 2017)

Zack;

Like others have said, stick with your DC setup for now. DCC is a sizable investment, so learn all you can while enjoying you layout.

It took me 10 years to finally decide to build my dual controlled system (DC/DCC) but I still can't go either way....too much invested in DC and still too much to invest in DCC


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

I had a DC layout that I had set up in blocks so I could run and control multiple trains via the blocks. Most of the time it was 2, and sometimes 3. Every year I would change the layout and I liked the challenge of determining how to set up the blocks.

Then I heard about DCC and was intrigued by the idea of controlling each locomotive individually, but I thought I would miss the challenge of designing blocks.

I did much research on DCC systems then decided to go with it and bought an NCE Power Cab starter set. I purchased some dual mode (run on DC and DCC without modifications) Bachmann locomotives for the transition because they were the least expensive.

Bottm line, I've never looked back. Track wiring is so much easier and being able to control trains individually makes it fun.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking with DC, especially to save on the cost outlay.

That said, if you find yourself wanting to control multiple locos simultaneously, DCC is by far the easier option. Even leaving them parked on the layout without elaborate measures to isolate the tracks is a big win for DCC.

When I got back into the hobby in 2000, like you, I considered DCC beyond my reach, both intellectually and financially. Because I had a very simple layout at the time, I though I would be ok with DC. Then I got a little 44-Ton switcher, and suddenly I had to figure out how to temporarily "shut off" the large loco while I used the switcher, then how to park the switcher when the road loco took over. I began temporarily derailing the loco that was not in use, while putting off the unpleasant task of isolating the sidings and my passing track and wiring them through cutoff switches. 

I was talking about this with a friend who was also a model railroader, and he invited me to come see his layout. He had an MRC Prodigy Express system which was so simple and so elegant that before the evening was out I was programming CV's and running trains like a pro. I knew from that evening that a DCC system would be my next model railroading purchase. And it got even better, because about 3 months later this same friend called me and told me he was upgrading to MRC's Prodigy Wireless, and I would I be interested in his old system. Obviously, I jumped at the chance. You may not have that kind of luck with your acquisition, but even at NIB prices, it's still worth it.

Acquiring and installing decoders was pretty simple too. I got a couple of multi-packs, which was great for the simple installs, and was fortunate enough to find a hobby shop that would install them for $10 if I bought the decoder from them, and that took care of the tricky conversions for my older locos.

While I was converting locos, I installed an A/B switch (DPDT) to select between DCC control and my old DC powerpack.

I have since upgraded my own system to the wireless, and passed the old Express down to my youngest son.

So that's my take. For what it's worth.


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## sachsr1 (Mar 3, 2016)

If you have all the DC equipment already, or can get a good deal on it at a swap meet then I would stay DC. If you plan on buying all the block switches, and extra throttles at a retail store I would switch to DCC. You can get a new NCC Powercab for under $140. When I switched I got one new DCC loco, and then converted an old DC Bachmann to DCC. If you're fairly tech savvy you can make your own DCC++ controller for under $25.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

So much good advice but it too can be
confoosing.

As has been mentioned, you can have your
DCC and DC too.

You can transition to DCC easily. Buy a 
DCC control system...any of those on the
market would be suitable. The least costly
is the Bachmann EZ. It can control up to
nine locos running at the same time. But that
system cannot fine tune the decoders. Some
members like to tinker with the speed and
other factors but the EZ can't do that. Most
other systems can.

Once you have a controller, set up a DPDT
switch so you can select DCC or DC on your
layout. Set all of your blocks ON to one power
pack then flip the switch to DCC. Your loco
will run everywhere on your layout without
further switch flipping.

You can easily convert your present DC locos
to DCC with available decoders which run around
20.00 or less apiece...any make will work with any
other make control system.

Select one of your latest locos and convert it.
As time passes you can convert them all.

Then you can simply connect all those 'block'
wires together and unhook the new switches.
Your old power packs can be used to power
turnouts, lights and other accessories.

Some DC locos can run on a DCC powered
layout but it's not advisable. DCC tracks are
always on with around 14 volts of modified AC.
Left idling, a DC loco can be damaged.

DCC locos can be sit idle with no damage.

Don


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

OK guys, I went ahead and ordered the nce power cab dcc system. Next question. I have a athearn blue box F7A/B, gp38, u30c that are all dc. I want to convert them all to dcc with sound. Can you tell me all the components needed to do that?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

What vintage are the locos? The Blue Box ones will need to have the motor leads and lights all wired into the decoder itself. But really, all you need is a decoder (any brand will work; I'd steer clear of Bachmann and MRC though). Many of them are sold with a speaker, otherwise you will need one of those.

And basic tools. Some modification of the frame and or shell will probably be necessary to fit the speaker in.


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

Would this one work?
http://www.traintekllc.com/digitrax...6R-wuA3w8U4b-DG75AXD9hKKFdnZ7FsRoC84QQAvD_BwE


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

From a purely technical standpoint, yes it will.

You would probably prefer one with the actual sounds for the locos you're fitting it in. While there is nothing wrong with substituting RS-1 sounds for an F&, it's not very realistic, so if this is important to you, look for one with the sound files that match the loco you're installing it into.


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

Sure, I understand.can you recommend a quality decoder that is priced reasonable for a athearn F unit?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Most of us prefer either NCE or Digitrax decoders.
Almost any of their decoders would be correct
for an HO loco since most now will power up
to 2 amps. If your loco is not DCC ready (which
means you can use a plug in decoder), you'll
want one with wires which you will solder in. 
The manual that comes with the decoder is
easy to follow.

Any new decoder or loco comes with address 3.
When you determine that your loco is fully
operational as address 3, you should change it
so that address 3 is free for your next loco set up.

Most good decoders will run around 20.00 or less depending
on the seller.

Don


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

I just ordered this to start with. After these harnesses are installed I will just need to find the correct decoder to plug into it for my specific locomotive correct? 

If I want add a speaker I will have use a board correct? 

Otherwise can I just use the shrink wrapped decoders?


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

You can change the sound files in Digitrax decoders to match the loco with a Digitrax PR3.


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

My logos are 
SD40
F7a/b
U28C

I can't seem to find the exact sound decoders for these. I really cannot afford a programmer right now. If I could find some decoders that are close I would be OK with that.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Some retailers will pre-programme the decoders for you with the sound files matching the locomotives you specify. Contact a seller like Litchfield Station or Tony's Trains, two reputable dealers on line, and ask them. I think they'll be able to help you.


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

mesenteria said:


> Some retailers will pre-programme the decoders for you with the sound files matching the locomotives you specify. Contact a seller like Litchfield Station or Tony's Trains, two reputable dealers on line, and ask them. I think they'll be able to help you.


Awesome, will do, thanks


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

My first decoder install was in an athearn blue box loco. I watched a bunch of
youtube videos on installing decoders in blue box locos. That really helped.
I watched so many that when I did the install it was like I had done it many times.
It came out fine. It was a few years ago but you might want to look at Soundtraxx
decoders. They used to, probably still do, list which decoder for a certain locomotive.
I am talking the right sound. Look them up.


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

Got my power cab. I have to admit I am a bit overwhelmed with all the options and settings. My 8-40C works great but I cannot get the ditch lights and such to work. The only thing that works is for the buttons on the controller (lights, horn & bell). I started reading the manual for the PC and the loco and my brain short-circuited. Can anyone give me a really simple and condensed version as to how I can utilize all the locos functions?


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Yeah, it can be mind boggling. I'm no expert but I've had to fumble through programming 2 sound locomotives (factory installed) and 2 non sound locomotives (self installed decoder, non sound). First look at the decoder documentation and see what it is capable of. Since, I gather, you are converting a DC to a DCC, I don't think the locomotive documentation will be much help. Some decoder documentation is skimpy and most decoder documentation is confusing. What you basically have to do is figure out how many functions your decoder supports and program it according to the decoder documentation. For example, pretty much all sound decoders have defaults for the head and tail lights, bell, and horn. The NCE system makes this easy with buttons marked as such. You would also find that these will also work with F0, F1, F2, F3. The decoder may also default other effects - my diesel F4 is dynamic brakes and on my steamer F4 is the compressor. Check the decoder manual to see what functions go with which sounds. If ditch lights is not a default, you will have to program one to operate the ditch lights.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Yes, go through your F buttons on controller. See if you can tell what each does.
One will mute the sound. You have found the bell and horn button. One will turn
lights on and off. Others may do nothing. One may do coupler sounds. One may kick
in generator or turbo. Maybe brake squeal. One on mine does loco shut down and
start up. Until you memorize them, write them down.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

You may have to change a CV value to get ditchlights working.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

You need a right combination of loco/decoder to have separately working ditch lights.Some locos simply don't have them,others have non-working ones and then you have some that are tied to the headlamp (Kato).Same for decoders,they don't all support separate ditch lights.

Wich brands loco/decoder do you have?


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

I honestly don't know. This is the engine I'm running.


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Well, if this is new, gold is the DCC sound equipped level of Atlas locomotives. It is equipped with a Lok Sound decoder.

I assume you have this, but here is a link to the manual.
http://www.atlasrr.com/DCC/FINAL User Manual - Atlas Gold Series Diesels with LokSound.pdf

It states F6 is the ditch lights. See page 15 for the pre programmed function keys.
The number keys on the power cab correspond to the function keys. I forget which key you press to get function 11 through 20.

Take a look at the power cab manual for programming. Look at the Programming on the Main section. You can change the function keys if you want, but I would leave the defaults.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Did a little search on Atlas's website.The description I found is clear...only the 8-40CW have working ditchlights.


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## Snoopy47 (Nov 23, 2017)

Brakeman Jake said:


> Did a little search on Atlas's website.The description I found is clear...only the 8-40CW have working ditchlights.


I guess that explains why I could not get my ditch lights to work, LOL. Thank you all so much for taking the time to help me out with this. I really appreciate it.


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