# Inexpensive HO Benchwork



## HOfabricator4$sless (Jun 20, 2019)

Thurs 7-4-19 6:52 p.m.

At some level it bothers me when HO enthusiasts decide to build a new layout. They head down to the hardware store and purchase a pile of pine 1 x4's to build up their benchwork.

Sadly, many businesses discard nice pallets which could be disassembled to make acceptable benchwork. 

I use pallets for many of my building activities. It is relatively easy to cut the outer 2 x 4's off the sides of pallets using a skill saw. Then it only requires removal of a couple of nails to separate each slat in the pallet from the center 2 x 4. I either use a wrecking bar and a hammer or two opposed hammer claws to pry up the slats.

It pays to be careful when selecting pallets. Pallets made from white pine would probably be the best for bench work. Pallets made from yellow pine are strong, but the wood is a bit harder to cut and drill. There are many nice pallets made from hardwood (for example, red oak or white oak), but these pallet are difficult to disassemble (the screw nails rust in place and have to be drilled out - that is, drill around each screw nail). However, oak which has been run through a jointer or planar can provide some very nice building stock at a low price.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Begging your pardon, I've never known a business to throw away or discard perfectly good 40"x48" cargo pallets. Most of them are owned by outside shipping companies that get transferred from business to business in their daily cargo operation and expect them to remain in the system.

The pallets that I've seen outside of lawn & garden companies, furniture companies, etc, have all been junk that I wouldn't use for any sort of building material.

It is much more time efficient (and probably cost efficient as well) in the long run to just buy the 1x4's and have decent benchwork for your railroad.

Currently a 1x4x8 is $3.51 at Home Depot. Is it really worth the time and effort to pull pallets apart for sub-standard wood when it cost so little to have at least a B grade SPF standard cut?

Sorry, I think your suggestion for solid benchwork is way off the mark. Buy decent wood if you expect decent performance from your railroad.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Out at work, we keep the pallets and send them to a recycler.


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## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

In Canada at least, the blue pallets (CHEP) are like gold (about $25 CDN each), you won't see those in the garbage bin. I do see "softwood" pallets often being tossed aside.

Not sure if I would use them on a layout though.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I worked for a warehouse that stacked all the pallets they got outside free for the taking. Not the trash but might as well have been.

Another inexpensive place to get wood is Habitat for Humanity Restores. You can also get a lot of your hardware too at a deeply discounted price plus be helping a worthy cause.

Personally we're doing our layout on 6' folding tables. Way less work that way.


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## HOfabricator4$sless (Jun 20, 2019)

Thurs 7-4-19 10:02 p.m.

For years, I have seen the model railroad clubs in Arizona selling off donated train collections at swap meets. The locos, cars, and buildings typically appear at the meets. Most of the layouts go in the trash - track and all. It is rather sad because quite a bit of effort goes into building the layouts.

I talked with a dealer in the Chicago area recently. He told me that some folks just throw entire collections and layouts in the trash. This was very hard for me to understand and accept.

I like to repurpose things. At the Eco Station in my community, there are piles of pallets which are discarded. Some of the pallets are junk but others are quite nice - surfaced 1x6's (Ponderosa Pine) in good condition. Shipping crates made from 4 ft x 8 ft sheets of plywood in thicknesses ranging from 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch also show up. 

Harbor Freight in Albuquerque frequently has piles of discarded pallets. Another firm in Albuquerque was discarding nice crates which one fellow was using to build dog houses.
They contained nicely surfaced white pine and yellow pine 1x6's.

Recessions occur every 9 to 13 years. I am concerned that we are due for another one soon. Therefore, I think it makes sense to put money into locos, rolling stock, buildings, etc. rather than spend it on layouts.

Of course, we are a throw away society. 

Some folks are determined to take money and turn it into junk. I much prefer to take junk and turn it into something useful.

Many years ago, I befriended a lubrication engineer who worked for Texaco. He had a boat and took me out in the Gulf of Mexico for a tour. That was quite a bit of fun. He also told me an interesting story about one of his customers. 

His customer was having trouble machining a state-of-the-air aircraft part. When he visited the customer's machine shop he was surprised to see ancient, worn-out machine tools which were shimmed up to produce quality, in-specification parts. The customer was the low bidder and got the contract for machining the parts. However, the alloy used to make the aircraft part was extremely difficult to machine and the customer required some assistance.

I heard a similar story about a run-down, dingy plant in Kansas City which made high-quality bridge bolts. 

Throughout the United States there are companies which sell hardwood (for example, walnut, oak, lignum vitae, ebony, tulip wood, rosewood, various types of mahogany, cherry, alder, maple, etc.). Some of this material (end cuttings and stock which does not yield an acceptable product once it goes through the planning mill) gets scrapped. Where does this stuff go? The landfill. 

Sometimes a box car filled with rough-cut walnut shows up for unloading. In between the pieces of salable walnut are "stickers" or spacers. The stickers also go to the landfill. I was able to obtain some of this material which I used to build a very nice solid walnut table (not veneer). 

Yup, it's easy to purchase a 1" x 4" x 8'-0" piece of pine from the lumber store, but why?


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

We’ve had this discussion before. The consensus was, as Michael E said, it’s just not worth it. For many of us, the time and effort spent reworking lumber from pallets could be better used for something else. 
But, it comes under our general statement, “Your railroad, your rules.”


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Chaostrain said:


> Personally we're doing our layout on 6' folding tables. Way less work that way.


Now THAT’S a good idea!


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I am generally in favour of recycling, repurposing, salvaging...whatever one chooses to use to describe the intent, and that is to slow the onslaught on landfills. Oh yeah......to save expenses, too.

I routinely salvage my trees, turnouts, the best lengths of track that I can pry up and clean, and any dimensional lumber lengths longer than about 18". Even those somewhat shorter can be cut up for corner frame blocking or for risers if using cookie cutter style roadbed. I get better at it with each layout I build (four to my credit now).

However, I always have to have some new stuff for the unique lengths. For example, on every layout I have had at least a pair of 8-10' L-girders fashioned from 1X4 spruce. I purchase three lengths, rip one of them in half with a table saw, and then use the two halves as flanges for two L-girders fashioned from the remaining two lengths of 1X4. Have I salvaged L-girders? Yup. Have I salvaged and re-used my 4X10 5/8" plywood that was under my yard last time? Yup, and to use the same way.

I think the exponential growth in spending, time, and learning happens with the first couple of layouts. After that, we should have learned that the hobby needn't be so costly each time we decide to start a new layout.


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Well I know it looks to be a old subject, but I make all kinds of stuff from scrap wood/ pallets. 
All of my tables, shelf’s, and work bench is scrap wood from factories in my area. I have built 2 barns/ sheds with the scrap wood I get. 
I even went as far as making wedding decor with some of my scarp.










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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

prrfan said:


> Now THAT’S a good idea!


From one perspective, yes. Folding tables, however, are much less sturdy than wooden benchwork, so you run the risk of damaging your layout / equipment with a slight bump. 

Also, the height, at 30", is brutal on your back of you're going to stand at it for any length of time.

Personally, I would rather invest the time and effort necessary to get a good foundation for my layout.


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## HOfabricator4$sless (Jun 20, 2019)

Fri 7-5-19 4:55 p.m.

One thing that chaps me is shelving. Let's say for example that someone purchases a 1x12, hangs it on the wall between two steel brackets and stacks a pile of Model Railroader magazines on the middle of the shelf. Then the shelf sags in the middle.

I learned something from working on old-style HO box cars from the 1800's. They had queens posts, tie rods, and turnbuckles underneath the base of each car. 

I think it might be possible to build a stronger shelf by placing a couple of pieces of 1-1/2 inch wide wood stock near the ends of the shelf (similar function to the queens posts), drill some holes in the shelf, and string some wire or wire rope across the wood blocks.

This is an example of how I take technology from one discipline and apply it to another.


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## HOfabricator4$sless (Jun 20, 2019)

Fri 7-5-19 5:10 p.m.

Fri 7-5-19 5:11 p.m.

Dear IronManStark:

With your construction efforts, it appears that you have made my point better than I did!

The defense rests.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

HOfabricator4$sless said:


> I think it might be possible to build a stronger shelf by placing a couple of pieces of 1-1/2 inch wide wood stock near the ends of the shelf (similar function to the queens posts), drill some holes in the shelf, and string some wire or wire rope across the wood blocks.


why not just screw a strip of 1-1/2 vertically under the shelf -- Linn Westcott's L-girder


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## HOfabricator4$sless (Jun 20, 2019)

Fri 7-5-19 6:04 p.m.

Why not do what I suggested and paint the side of your shelf in your train room to look like the side of an old style flat car. How about them apples?

Alternately, what you suggested sounds fine to me.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

My word, gents !! Seems to me that if you can afford locos, cars, trackage, switches galore, controllers DC/DCC, wiring, ballast, glues, plaster, foam/plywood, and paints, and have space for a layout and its electric bill you can afford nice lumber yard clear 8',16', by 1"x 4" pine to support these expensive things above it ! What kind of stringer can you get out of a splintery 4' pallet ? This wood is of the lowest grade and will be more likely to warp, or split when putting in screws or nails. Then you still need legs..I ain't gonna make legs out of pallet wood !.... I too am in MichaelE's camp...M


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Time to turn on the ignore feature


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

i was told pallets are made of rough cut oak and the best use for them is to burn them in a fire. But if you can make better use of them, good for you. Of course you'll probably have to pre-drill before using screws


part of engineering is finding ways to use inexpensive materials. I've been surprised how stringing a wire diagonally under a wobbly wooden deck table can strengthen it, rather than trash the table.

And a piece of foam can be made pretty rigid with some glass fiber packing tape and a thin sheet of balsa.


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Also, the height, at 30", is brutal on your back of you're going to stand at it for any length of time.


Of course it is. That's why they make chairs. Not everybody can stand for any length time anyway.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Chaostrain said:


> Of course it is. That's why they make chairs. Not everybody can stand for any length time anyway.


And if that's the way you choose or need to model, fine. 

But everyone else needs to be aware of that drawback before they say "wow, that's a great idea".


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

i recently worked on a layout that was high enough that you can sit on a chair under the layout to do work.


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

HOfabricator4$sless said:


> Fri 7-5-19 5:10 p.m.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks. I guess I’m just a little more ambitious than most. I have made my own hardwood floor out of scrap wood. 
I built all our kitchen cupboards, and island with scrap wood. I should also clarify that my scrap wood is not just pallets. It is anything the factories use for shipping. I get pine crates that are used for copper plates. 
2x4’s that are used in between 4x8 sheets of metal so they are 8’ long. 
1” plywood sheets that are used as creates to ship zinc plates. 
So it’s not just pallets, but all scrap. 
Here is a few more pics of what I have made with it.










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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Chaostrain said:
> 
> 
> > Of course it is. That's why they make chairs. Not everybody can stand for any length time anyway.
> ...


On my previous layout, I used doors on top of 30” high book cases. It worked fine, BUT, in all fairness I don’t spend a lot of time working on the layout. I use buildings, pre-fab roads and Kato track. 
On my current layout I also used doors but on braced 2x4 legs, raised to 37”. 
CT Valley’s assessment is right if you are doing a lot of detail work for extended periods of time, such as ballasting, scenery or laying flex track. 
I do operate from a chair but you can’t do too much work from one.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Chaostrain said:
> 
> 
> > Of course it is. That's why they make chairs. Not everybody can stand for any length time anyway.
> ...


Or, to eliminate the drawback, one could 
simply use adjustable folding tables (they are available up to 48” height and maybe higher) and screw them to the wall with L brackets at the wall studs. 
This would give you the strength you needed. 
I don’t have a problem building benchwork but some people might and it could be a deal breaker to entering the hobby. 
There’s more than one way to skin a cat.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

To quote Clint Eastwood, "A man's got to know his limitations". When it comes to woodworking, the two things I can make, are saw dust, and kindling. This is why I buy my benchwork pre-made, as my talents/interests lie elsewhere.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

ncrc5315 said:


> This is why I buy my benchwork pre-made, as my talents/interests lie elsewhere.


And there's absolutely _nothing_ wrong with that! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## HOfabricator4$sless (Jun 20, 2019)

Sat 7-13-19 10:52 p.m.

I visited the Ecostation (landfill) several times this week. There were generous quantities of 1x4's through 1x10's (run through a planer, some of red oak), 2x4's, 2x6's, 2x8's (run through a planer in various lengths), 4x4's, plywood (1/4" through 3/4" partial and full sheets), particle board, etc.

What I really like to find are nice 1x6's made from sugar pine or Ponderosa Pine. Sometimes I get lucky. 

Recently, I found some nice packing crates for high-dollar research instrumentation. Some of the plywood was similar to finished paneling. 

It always surprises me when I find some laminated boards composed of maple.

With 4 table saws, 3 radial arm saws, 2 jointers, 2 band saws, 2 drill presses, and 2 scroll saws it is possible to make a variety of items out of wood.,


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

HOfabricator4$sless said:


> Thurs 7-4-19 10:02 p.m.
> 
> For years, I have seen the model railroad clubs in Arizona selling off donated train collections at swap meets. The locos, cars, and buildings typically appear at the meets. Most of the layouts go in the trash - track and all. It is rather sad because quite a bit of effort goes into building the layouts.
> 
> ...


I am with you. Repurposing is the best. My HO layout is small, but cardboard. It's fine.


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

HOfabricator4$sless said:


> Thurs 7-4-19 10:02 p.m.
> 
> At some level it bothers me when HO enthusiasts decide to build a new layout. They head down to the hardware store and purchase a pile of pine 1 x4's to build up their benchwork.


If that bothers you, then those who go out and buy premium wood, or plywood must really bother you. But it bothers me to see people commuting to work in big pickup trucks too, which seem very wasteful.



> Sadly, many businesses discard nice pallets which could be disassembled to make acceptable benchwork.


I don't see them around northern Virginia for the taking, but I don't think I'd want to build bench-work out of pallets anyway. 

You assume the readers here all have your level of wood working skills and can do all the work to get some decent dimensional lumber out of old pallets. Not necessarily so.



> For years, I have seen the model railroad clubs in Arizona selling off donated train collections at swap meets. The locos, cars, and buildings typically appear at the meets. Most of the layouts go in the trash - track and all. It is rather sad because quite a bit of effort goes into building the layouts.
> 
> I talked with a dealer in the Chicago area recently. He told me that some folks just throw entire collections and layouts in the trash. This was very hard for me to understand and accept. ...
> 
> Of course, we are a throw away society.


America is the most materialistic society on earth, especially the past 30 or 40 years. If you think about it too much, it can make you in a bad mood.




> I like to repurpose things.
> 
> Yup, it's easy to purchase a 1" x 4" x 8'-0" piece of pine from the lumber store, but why?



Why? Simple answer, not all of us have the skills to turn crappy pallets into nice dimensional lumber to build layouts out of. 

And if you buy decent dimensional pine and look through the pile at HD or Lowes, you can find some good "true" pieces and the cost is quite modest. 

I built my last layout out it and the bench-work and sub-roadbed for the 10x18' layout with two levels on one side was under $500.


And just to warm the cockles of your heart, I don't believe in throwing out good wood. When it came time to move, I salvaged everything except the plaster and cardboard strip scenery, even the screws and rail joiners, spikes and track nails! I even saved all the scrap and off-cut pieces of wood as I expect I'll re-use most of it:














































ALL the basic bench-work frames, legs etc and track and materials were saved and I plan to re-use most of it on a future layout. Here some of it after the move:





































And yes, all of that track was laid and carefully removed from this layout:


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## sid (Mar 26, 2018)

ya know reading through all of this, it seems many dont like the so called wasted time looking, taking apart stuff to make other stuff. hahaha i look at it in a whole different set of eyes . i think that more importantly even if you have all the money in the world maybe just maybe these folks look at it as another type of hobby. Not just trains but something else to keep the mind busy. Time is just that time. we all run out of time in the end... my 2 cents (that probably arnt worth any thing ) but time hahahahahahah


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It would be beneficial to see photos of pallet-built bench work....but I'm not holding my breath on that...


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I'd like to see that too.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

*Well, I've just got to comment (don't hold breath)*

When I retired, I dug out my old trains and put a shelf 'layout' in a tiny basement room. Then realized, if I used 18"R curve I could build a reversing loop at the North end.

When outside to my wood pile and found a decent 40" square pallet. Broke out the high power orbital sander and went to work. On top of it I glued plastic signs, thin plywood curved base, and smeared plaster everywhere. Here are the results.

By the way, I'm thinking of a complete rebuild to fit in a 90' turntable and continuous loop. Will experiment with 15"-16" curves and my small motive power. 

Anyone else never finish a layout?


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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

Dennis461 said:


> Anyone else never finish a layout?


Have you never read the oft repeated mantra in Mr magazine?

"a layout is never finished" 


But for a couple of reasons, I AM finishing my basement before building the layout. 1) finished basement adds value to the home, and 2) a layout looks nicer in a finished basement.

Basement at move-in:









Wife and I installing the drywall starting on Christmas day 2018 - took about 6-8 weeks to get all in including ceiling beams and windows









Mudding and taping and sanding.









Painted by May









Suspending ceiling now installed in 5 separate ceiling sections separated by 4 boxed in beams


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

That's a nice basement!
When I built my previous layout, I only used glue on a very few pieces. Everything else was fastened with screws. When I tore down the layout (to build a new layout in the large room of the basement) I took the benchwork completely apart, saving all the wood and all the screws. Most of the wood will be reused on the new layout.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I have finished my shelf layout. My problem is that I don't want it to be finished and I'm obsessing with ways to expand it in my limited space.


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> It would be beneficial to see photos of pallet-built bench work....but I'm not holding my breath on that...












Here is what I have made so far with my scrap wood. The layout is far from done. I want to add another sheet , or two of foam board to add depth. Then I will start to glue stuff down. I will apologize for my desk being a mess as I was working on IronMan’s boots & gloves. I still need to do some trim work on my shelves. Then I will be painting them. I also want to install some under lighting to help show off my hobbies! 



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## riogrande (Apr 28, 2012)

All those tractors and superhero stuff get in the way of the trains, which should be up higher - and wall painted sky blue!


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

riogrande said:


> All those tractors and superhero stuff get in the way of the trains, which should be up higher - and wall painted sky blue!




Well the trains are more for my daughter. She is 4. I put a track around the top of her room when she was a newborn. Some babies get lambs that spin on a mobile. She got a Santa Fe war bonnet a-b-a f7 with 12 passenger coaches running on a 8” shelf running around her. Lol 
So I built this low for her to help. She will be 5 this December & still loves to watch Thomas run around the layout. The tractors are from my oldest daughter (she will be 16 ) 
When she was 5 we use to collect & play with ertl farm sets. 
She stopped when she got in 7th grade  however we still go to toy shows to add a new tractor in our collection every year! 
The super hero stuff is me. I actually build it to help with charity events for sick kids. 
As far as the color goes I am not sure. I just might go with a nice industrial gray. With white trim. 
Thanks for the input though. 


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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

The low layout works perfectly for under the windows. Plus you can sit relaxed in your chair and watch the trains. Or even better, sit with your daughter in your lap and watch Thomas and friends go. I like it. Your iron man suits are looking great.

My N scale layout was 8'X12' and built almost entirely with wood I scrounged from wood piles, dumpsters, free for the taking piles, pieces of pallets, so on and so forth. I say almost because there were a couple of small areas I got impatient and wanted the trains to run.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Why isn't the curve in the second photo connected at the bridges?


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

MichaelE said:


> Why isn't the curve in the second photo connected at the bridges?




Working at putting another 1” of foam board under all the track. The wood you see there is just to hold the track up for the moment. I plan on cutting out a small valley to run under the bridges with a waterfall. I am looking at making it a real water feature. I want to use a plastic box under it to catch the water & a small aquarium pump to move it up to the top. It’s all a work in progress. With summer on us right now I am outside most of the day in our garden , or with our 10 hives of bees. 
I hope to start back at my layout towards fall. 



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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Chaostrain said:


> The low layout works perfectly for under the windows. Plus you can sit relaxed in your chair and watch the trains. Or even better, sit with your daughter in your lap and watch Thomas and friends go. I like it. Your iron man suits are looking great.
> 
> My N scale layout was 8'X12' and built almost entirely with wood I scrounged from wood piles, dumpsters, free for the taking piles, pieces of pallets, so on and so forth. I say almost because there were a couple of small areas I got impatient and wanted the trains to run.




Thanks buddy! I know my daughter has been asking when we can watch Thomas run around again.  hopefully I’ll get it all back together in the fall 


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## HOfabricator4$sless (Jun 20, 2019)

Fri 7-19-19 9:49 p.m.

Dear IronManStark:

Your idea of using water is interesting. However, my experience in chemical plants and aquariums is that there can potentially be algae problems. You may want to investigate the use of some kind of non-toxic water treatment chemical to keep your system free of algae, etc.


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

HOfabricator4$sless said:


> Fri 7-19-19 9:49 p.m.
> 
> Dear IronManStark:
> 
> Your idea of using water is interesting. However, my experience in chemical plants and aquariums is that there can potentially be algae problems. You may want to investigate the use of some kind of non-toxic water treatment chemical to keep your system free of algae, etc.




Hmm.. you make a very good point. I never gave it a thought. I might need to look at a filter system of some sort, or as you mentioned some type of treatment. Maybe a algicide for koi ponds. 
Thanks for the heads up on that one!  


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

We’ve had discussions in the past about using real water on indoor layouts. Some good points were raised and the point about algae was one of them. 
You can probably find the thread on a site search. I would have included a link but the search feature seems to not work well on my phone.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

IronManStark said:


> Working at putting another 1” of foam board under all the track. The wood you see there is just to hold the track up for the moment. I plan on cutting out a small valley to run under the bridges with a waterfall. I am looking at making it a real water feature. I want to use a plastic box under it to catch the water & a small aquarium pump to move it up to the top. It’s all a work in progress. With summer on us right now I am outside most of the day in our garden , or with our 10 hives of bees.
> I hope to start back at my layout towards fall.
> 
> 
> ...



If anyone can pull this off it is IMS.

Perhaps cut the water or replace with a liquid that has lower surface tension / viscosity and that may address the algae as well.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

IronManStark said:


> Hmm.. you make a very good point. I never gave it a thought. I might need to look at a filter system of some sort, or as you mentioned some type of treatment. Maybe a algicide for koi ponds.
> Thanks for the heads up on that one!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Algae will not grow in Vodka!


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

Dennis461 said:


> Algae will not grow in Vodka!


Or white vinegar.


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## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Nikola said:


> Or white vinegar.




I was thinking of the vinegar idea. We use that during the summer to help keep our chickens water from growing algae in it. 
Although I do like the vodka idea.... maybe with a twist of raspberry! Lol  


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