# Big Decision, BLI or MTH Help help help



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

I want an HO gauge Steamer that does it all, DCC, Smokes, Reliable, Detailed etc. I want all the bells and whistles 
I bought a BLI Diesel an SD40-2 and I am really happy with it, Prior to that I had a similar Athern Diesel, a GP40X and thought it was fantastic but the BLI blew it away.

Anyway I want a 4-6-2 or a 4-6-4 that will run on my 18R track and I have narrowed it down to the MTH or the BLI they both have almost identical features, the MTH has one thing the BLI does not have and that is a sound feature called Clacitty Clack with a volume control and an on/off for it in the decoder.

The engine will be either a K4 or a Hudson model

These are costly, 400 bucks, almost impossible to find used
Does anyone here have these models that can give us all a review????


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

MTH have some beautiful engines but I have stayed away from MTH because
they work best with DCS systems. They will run on DCC systems but you may
not get all features of the engine.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Here is a video with both BLI K4 and Hudson running.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Great Video,
I was at the RTR Train store in North Miami about 6 months ago and saw a demo of the MTH O gauge stuff and that just blew me away. The smoke puffed out the stack in relation with the chuff chuff sound and wheel rotation, it had a selection of low, med, hi or off on the smoke generator accessible from either a switch on the loco or from the MTH controller and said that almost everything was available on the NCE power cab controller. 

At idle the smoke just streams up steady from the stack. I recall seeing something about one of these loco's or perhaps a diff loco that blows smoke from the drive pistons and from a release valve back near the cab, that loco had two smoke generators, cannot recall what loco it was but it sounded to be really cool to have.
I never thought to ask what was not available to use on my power cab.. I also saw a demo of the Lionel O gauge stuff, the only stuff he had running on the HO Layout was some cheapo Bachman Diesel DCC starter set and the sound on that was very weak.
It is hard to plop down 400 bucks on something that you cannot touch and see running. I trust the people here to give me the straight scoop because I hate to drive the 50 miles to that store mainly because it is located in a very seamy warehouse area in a very Bad part of North Miami in a very Ferguson looking area. And judging by the heavy steel double doors and lack of windows it is sort of frightening to go there. I was afraid my jeep may not be there when I come out.

The BLI website has some great video's and so does the MTH site but neither has any video's on the Loco's I want. The K4 on the train world site is just under 400 and it is backorder only, I called them and they said they do not stock the Loco I want kit is sold on backorder only and either MTH or BLI will ship what is ordered


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## vikramgoel (Mar 2, 2015)

Hi,
I have both a MTH 4-6-2 as well as a BLI 4-6-2. As I operate on DCC I find that BLI can be configured to my requirements while MTH cannot, therefore I prefer BLI. Also if you want smoke from the pistons etc only one I know of is a German Roco steamer for HO Model #: 68191. It is really cool but very pricey. I have an older model of the same loco, you can see it in a video on my site at http://www.indiarails.net/videos-of-non-indian-locomotives.html look for the German BR-10 videos.

Regards,

Vik.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

vikramgoel said:


> Hi,
> I have both a MTH 4-6-2 as well as a BLI 4-6-2. As I operate on DCC I find that BLI can be configured to my requirements while MTH cannot, therefore I prefer BLI. Also if you want smoke from the pistons etc only one I know of is a German Roco steamer for HO Model #: 68191. It is really cool but very pricey. I have an older model of the same loco, you can see it in a video on my site at http://www.indiarails.net/videos-of-non-indian-locomotives.html look for the German BR-10 videos.
> 
> Regards,
> ...


Have you got any pictures of the two loco's for a side by side comparison??? Which is the better built and most detailed.?? Is the sound on one louder then then other?? Which has the better smoke??


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## vikramgoel (Mar 2, 2015)

HI,
Most of my locos are bashed to Indian locos. Here are two video links on my site you can use to compare:

1) http://www.indiarails.net/video---indian-wps.html  
Use the video of 'WP 7051 Sher-E-Punjab hauling a small 3 coach train, with Synchronized smoke' This is a BLI model 4-6-2

2:  http://www.indiarails.net/videos-of-indian-steam-locos.html  
see teh video WL-1350 With Synchronized smoke. This is a MTH Loco 4-6-4

Hope this helps.
Regards,

Vik.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

A question:

If a guy wanted the MTH loco because of it's details, for example,
could he not change out the decoder to, for example, a Digitrax
or sound model to make it compatible with a typical DCC 
controller?

Don


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## vikramgoel (Mar 2, 2015)

DonR said:


> A question:
> 
> If a guy wanted the MTH loco because of it's details, for example,
> could he not change out the decoder to, for example, a Digitrax
> ...



Don,

I think so, but have never tried it, I think that doing so will increase the cost; cost of loco plus new decoder. Also if one is available for the model with all sound files, and functions etc, that may be difficult. I found an article here which may help:
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/MTH/SD70ACE/MTH SD70ACE.html


It may be better in the long run to get a different manufacturer which is 100% DCC compatible. 

Vik.


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## Br 98.75 (Dec 26, 2013)

BLI all the way, and try the refurbished section most are 44% off with the same benifits of buying a new one


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Br 98.75 said:


> BLI all the way, and try the refurbished section most are 44% off with the same benifits of buying a new one


Scored on a brand new BLI K4s w/Paragon2 sound and smoke for 400 bucks on ebay


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Got my K4s monday afternoon. The detailing was beyond my expectations, no cast in pipes etc everything was attached. It is the pre war version with the slatted cow catcher, it has jeweled side lights on the front of the loco and rear of the tender that appear to be lighted but are not and it is very heavy, the sound is terrific and the smoke is very heavy, It begins to move ever so slowly at speed step 1. 
I have one issue, the front guide truck derails in two places, both at rail joints, on my layout and for the life of me I cannot see why, the track feels right, but I can watch it at speed step one as the truck just rolls off the track. any thoughts there?????


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Got my K4s monday afternoon. The detailing was beyond my expectations, no cast in pipes etc everything was attached. It is the pre war version with the slatted cow catcher, it has jeweled side lights on the front of the loco and rear of the tender that appear to be lighted but are not and it is very heavy, the sound is terrific and the smoke is very heavy, It begins to move ever so slowly at speed step 1. 
I have one issue, the front guide truck derails in two places, both at rail joints, on my layout and for the life of me I cannot see why, the track feels right, but I can watch it at speed step one as the truck just rolls off the track. any thoughts there?????


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## vikramgoel (Mar 2, 2015)

Bkubiak said:


> Got my K4s monday afternoon. The detailing was beyond my expectations, no cast in pipes etc everything was attached. It is the pre war version with the slatted cow catcher, it has jeweled side lights on the front of the loco and rear of the tender that appear to be lighted but are not and it is very heavy, the sound is terrific and the smoke is very heavy, It begins to move ever so slowly at speed step 1.
> I have one issue, the front guide truck derails in two places, both at rail joints, on my layout and for the life of me I cannot see why, the track feels right, but I can watch it at speed step one as the truck just rolls off the track. any thoughts there?????



I have had some issues with the leading truck, it may derail if there is a large enough gap between the two rails at the joint this causes the smaller truck wheels to dip in and then it jumps when hitting the other rail edge. Another cause coudl be that prior to the joint one of the drivers is lifting slightly and when truck comes down it is not in the right spot. I would try:
1) Slightly filing the two rails at the joint ends.
2) See if you can spot a slight bump on the driving wheels.
3) see if you can reduce the gap at joint.

Hope this helps,

Vik.


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## AdRockTrains (Mar 3, 2015)

Recently bought a BLI 2-8-0 Consolidation with Paragon 2 sound for $299. It's awesome. Superb detail, runs smoothly, great sound... I love it. 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/HO-Scale-2-8-0-Consolidation-s/1721.htm

Can't beat that price either!


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

I sent an email to BLI Customer service and they wrote back that on some K4s models a weight was not installed on the bottom of the pilot truck making it too light causing the truck to easily derail. They are sending me a new Pilot truck with the weight attached.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

The weighted pilot truck for my new K4s was shipped on Monday from Broadway Limited in Ormond Beach Florida. It was not in todays mail, perhaps tomorrow.

I just noticed this morning that the bell on the loco actually swings on a fulcrum, it must have been stuck, I picked up the loco and must have pushed against the bell and it started to flop round, broke out my 10X jewelers loupe to look close and Holy Crap that bell and the housing is detailed way better then I ever expected, wonder if I could buy a couple of them from BLI to put on other loco's

I also noticed the cab roof vent slides back


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

A little off topic but I like both BLI and MTH. Both are making some great engines today and more to come in the future. The sounds and smoke in my steam engines are great. Hope to buy more in the future.


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## greenwizard88 (Dec 5, 2014)

Generally, I see more forum posts about BLI steam engine problems than I do MTH. But on the flip side, MTH engines just aren't as DCC friendly as they could be.

Either way though, I don't think you can go wrong.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

greenwizard88 said:


> Generally, I see more forum posts about BLI steam engine problems than I do MTH. But on the flip side, MTH engines just aren't as DCC friendly as they could be.
> 
> Either way though, I don't think you can go wrong.


The problem I have seen on other forums and here with BLI steamers is the 4 wheel Pilot truck is too light, all their latest engines are coming with a weighted pilot truck, I had that issue too, I am hoping my Pilot truck will arrive in todays mail.
If you watch a lot of the BLI videos, that guy with the beard mentions many times improvements that have been made on various models, I suggest anyone with a 4 wheel pilot truck take a look and see if their truck is weighted or not. I do not have mine yet but I think the weight covers over the axles.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Bkubiak said:


> The problem I have seen on other forums and here with BLI steamers is the 4 wheel Pilot truck is too light, all their latest engines are coming with a weighted pilot truck, I had that issue too, I am hoping my Pilot truck will arrive in todays mail.
> If you watch a lot of the BLI videos, that guy with the beard mentions many times improvements that have been made on various models, I suggest anyone with a 4 wheel pilot truck take a look and see if their truck is weighted or not. I do not have mine yet but I think the weight covers over the axles.


YEA I got my new Weighted Pilot Truck from BLI


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Bkubiak said:


> YEA I got my new Weighted Pilot Truck from BLI


ARRGGHH I forgot to set my camera to Macro to take those pics, but I think you can all see the diff between the trucks. 

Put the new truck on and anxiously ran the LOCO, damn it derailed at the same two spots over and over. What?????? I checked the track with my standards gauge, they are in scale and the connection between tracks are straight and there is almost no gap at all between rails.
Think I will take close ups of one derail spot from a half dozen diff angles and see if anyone here can spot what I must have done wrong.

At least I have the correct pilot truck for my new K4s loco 

Also Is anyone interested in a brand new Bachman 4-8-4 GS64 DCC Equipped Western Pacific #485 Loco. I paid a guy 125.00 for it, I have the box and all the stuff from Bachman, he had returned a defective 4-6-4 to them and they replaced it with this 4-8-4 and neither he nor I can run it on our 18R layouts. I'll take 125 plus shipping for it. I ran it back and forth on a straightaway a few times and watched it derail on the first curve, so I just ran it back and forth and now want to buy something else that I can use. It is not a sound DCC Decoder, just speed direction and lights job and the engine is a non smoker.


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## daylight4449 (Jun 17, 2015)

Bkubiak said:


> ARRGGHH I forgot to set my camera to Macro to take those pics, but I think you can all see the diff between the trucks.
> 
> Put the new truck on and anxiously ran the LOCO, damn it derailed at the same two spots over and over. What?????? I checked the track with my standards gauge, they are in scale and the connection between tracks are straight and there is almost no gap at all between rails.
> Think I will take close ups of one derail spot from a half dozen diff angles and see if anyone here can spot what I must have done wrong.
> ...


I have a MTH Pennsy K4, mint condition, never run which I would like to sell. I am going to concentrate on Western Railroads. If you are interested maybe we can make a deal.

Also a unpainted BLI Pennsy Q2 that has been test run and performs perfectly.

Thank you
Bart Zuccala ( a rookie on this forum)


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

daylight4449 said:


> I have a MTH Pennsy K4, mint condition, never run which I would like to sell. I am going to concentrate on Western Railroads. If you are interested maybe we can make a deal.
> 
> Also a unpainted BLI Pennsy Q2 that has been test run and performs perfectly.
> 
> ...


I am interested, very interested, I have the Bachman sitting on a track section in front of my keyboard, it is beautiful and I can only run it back and forth on a straight section about 5 ft long

What kind of deal are you looking to make? I am interested in an even swap if you are. I actually stole mine for 125.00. I knew what it was worth and when I asked how much and he said give me 125.00 I almost broke my arm getting the cash out


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Bart and Bill -- please take the sales discussion to the appropriate place. There is a "For Sale or Trade (Member to Member)" thread in the Marketplace section.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> Bart and Bill -- please take the sales discussion to the appropriate place. There is a "For Sale or Trade (Member to Member)" thread in the Marketplace section.


Y Y YES Sir, I am sorry S S SIR, I did to know you were the forum police, besides I had already sent him a PM, I was just responding to his post, Please stop being so Touchy


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I would think a lot of discussions on here may be research prior to buying something. I don't recall the OP actually posting a for sale item.


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