# Newby need your opinion



## Gamebits (Jan 5, 2011)

Well, where do I start? May be a little introduction first, I'm 56 years old, I started a model train 30 some years ago abandoned it to raise a family, signup here 2 years ago that's when my daughter decided to go back to college so I help her out, now she's done with it and I'm back here with a billion of questions.

First one, code 83, code 100 what are they? Are they interchangeable (mixed together)? and starting a brand knew layout which one would be the best to use?

Ok that was 3 questions but they are all related, 999,999,997 to go.


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*questions*

Hi,game..Welcome back. I can`t answer your questions but I`m sure someone will.I got my second laugh this evening already. I like your billions questions. Ask away and i`m sure I`ll learn something.

Have a good rest of the week and have fun,Everett:appl:


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

Welcome back!

Code 83, 100 refers to the height of the rail. The smaller the number the shorter the rail. 

Code 100 is a good track. It will allow you to run some of that older stuff without running the flanges on the ties. There are track joiners that will adapt different code track to each other available too.

Which is best? That's kind of a preference. A lot of people use 83 for a more scale look. Some will run 100 on the mains, and 83 or less in the sidings or yards. 

Never fear to ask questions. And the biggest thing is to have fun. It's a hobby, not a job.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

dannyrandomstate said:


> A lot of people use 83 for a more scale look. Some will run 100 on the mains, and 83 or less in the sidings or yards.


Danny said it the way I understand it. I will add that Ive heard people like the 100 on the mains so the can run longer trains at faster speeds. 83 for yards where the trains will move slower.


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## Gamebits (Jan 5, 2011)

Ok, so bigger number mean bigger rails choosing one or the other is a trade off between a better look as far as scale or better operation, got it now to the next question.

Thanks


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Cost is another factor. Code one hundred is more available and there for cost less. Code 100 looks fine to me. I use one hundred one on all my track. I do not want to be limited as to what train that I run. I hat derailments.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Always great to see a new person on the Forum.

If you've got all those questions the Forum is going to be
even more interesting. Fire away.

I see you are intending to model in HO. Be sure to go to the
HO forum and read the various threads going way back. You'll find
answers to questions you haven't even asked yet.

Also, since you are starting out...go with DCC. Check the
DCC Forum. There's a lot of information in it's 
back 'pages' also. This will most likely add a million or so questions to
your list. 

Don


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Here's a little something from Atlas regarding track.
http://www.atlasrr.com/layoutfaq.htm


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Code 100 looks like today's protypical 144 lb rail used on the welded rail mainlines.


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## Gamebits (Jan 5, 2011)

JackC - the link you provided seems a little biased toward Atlas track system - just kidding, good info, they are saying that only older European model would have an issue running on code 83 because the flange is too large on the wheels.

- Can we not change the wheels or trim down the flange somewhat? Assuming that we want to use older stock.

DonR - You said go with DCC since I'm starting out, my question is why? I've been reading through the forum quite a bit and other than having the possibility of running multiple trains independently on the same track I do not see any other advantage, but there is one disadvantage the cost of a DCC loco is almost twice the cost of the same loco running DC. 

I'm not trying to fire up an argumentation but before spending a few thousand dollars on a system I'd like to know for sure that is the way I want to go.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Once you get bit buy the DCC bug...there is no going back, at least for me.

No need to spend thousands. An NCE Power Cab can be found on e-Pay for $160. You can find less expensive DCC locomotives as well. Or, if you do not care about sound, an Athearn Blue Box locomotive can be converted to DCC with a $20 decoder.

I bought my Digitrax Super Chief two years ago for $200. It was used.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Gamebits

Great question. Why DCC when DC is less expensive?

I suppose those of us who have been bitten by the DCC bug tend
to forget that there are others still in the DC mode of thinking.

You've read some of the DCC materials; you know about the
individual control of EACH train that you have with DCC. You can
have one train running around your layout as you busily switch
cars around your yard. And you do that without having to 
turn on and off various sections of your track. With DC you would
need 2 power packs and a number of isolated sections each
controlled by a switch to select from pack A or B to do the
same thing. With DCC all tracks are live at all times even when the locos are sitting still.
That means your headlights or car lights stay on. Their brightness
does not change. You can, in fact, turn them on and
off individually from your controller. You can add sound and actually hear your
diesel start up it's engine, ring the bell in yards, sound the
horn for starts and at crossings. Steam locomotives actually
chug in sync with the drive rods. 

As to cost, yes, DCC is more but then you can
find excellent used gear for less than new DC equipment. And you
eliminate the cost and work of installing
all of all those switches and extra power packs.

I'm trying to find the words that explain how much more enjoyment
you'll have with your layout as DCC. With DC you must fumble around throwing
power selection switches, for example, but with DCC you simply run
your locomotives. You get more of the feel of being an actual
Engineer. 

My tired old brain is trying to come up with an apt analogy: Best that
comes to mind: If you are buying a new car, would you go for the
plain jane model with roll up windows, AM only radio, and No a/c simply
because it is less expensive than a higher priced model that comes
with all of that equipment? To me, buying a whole new DC layout
is just like that. And you get less train running enjoyment which, after
all, is why you are interested in the hobby.

So, while we're not intending a disagreement, we are here to help
you get the most from your hobby based on our experiences. After all,
most of us have had DC layouts and converted when DCC became
available.

Don


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

As for track code, North American class I RR used track that was code 83 or less. Usually code 70 or less on yards and branch lines. As has been indicated, Code 100 is the most plentiful. Code 83 woman's introduced about 20 years go in HO. Any smaller Code is relatively new. What that results in is a lower new cost for code 100 and a larger availability of Used Code 100 track. Depending on what your doing, the cost may be the deciding factor. 

As for DCC, you ask a fair question. As RRGrassi indicated, once you get the DCC bug it is hard to turn back. The decoders operate the DC motor differently than you can with a standard DC power pack. Because of this difference they/you can run the trains at a much lower speed and can be more realistic operating at all speeds. 

This capability comes at a cost, and not only a higher price. DCC system have some sensitivities that are more extreme than regular DC systems. Thre are a number of very good sites to learn the DCC ropes. The issues that seem to be most critical are voltage drop, short damage and track cleanliness. Not necessary in that order.

Voltage drop- the ability
to control the system requires as clean a DCC signal as possible everywhere on the track. While it is also important to have a strong signal in DC, the potential for bad things happening in DCC is significant. In DC, a poor voltage signal means the train runs intermittently, but never faster than you ask. With DCC system the maximum double amplitude signal is applied to the track at all times. The decoder decides how fast or slow the loco motor runs. With a weak or dirty signal the decoder can get the wrong message and you can loose control of the loco. This can be very serious. 
To counter act this, power connections are directly soldered to both sides of each section, at least every 3 feet. While this is also a good thing to do for DC, for DCC it is a nessity. 

Track cleanliness- follows this same theme. In this case the signal is not weak, but the dirt on the track or wheels can lead to similar bad results. This is a big issue because dirt on wheels and track are a constant happening. So this will require some on going diligence to keep it under control. 

Short Damage- the electrical power on the track for a HO DCC system is equivalent to a 60 watt light bulb. This can result in very serious damage to decoders and DC motors. I have seen any number of fried motors in used loco's that were obviously wired for DCC. The later systems have better circuit breakers, but depending on details, they may not be fast enough. The latest solutions are power districts and DCC friendly turnouts amount others.

The reason for going into this detail is not to speak against DCC, but to encourage you to approach it with some caution. In my own situation, I've planned for DCC where possible. But I haven't taken the leap yet. 

Most, not all, DCC loco's will run on DC. If you know someone who has DCC or there is a club with DCC in your area, you can try it out and see if it is something you feel is a must have. I know there is still a large segment of the hobby that is DC. Almost all new loco's still come in DC versions. I know this probably leaves you with more question than answers, but it is how I see it today.


Larry


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## Gamebits (Jan 5, 2011)

Great advices so far that sure help a lot, by the sounds of it DCC is the way to the future and I can certainly understand somebody who spent years building a DC model with dozens of locos being reluctant to switch but starting fresh the only reason I can see of not wanting to go DCC is buying older stock that may not be compatible.

But since I haven't bought anything yet this should not be an issue, DCC it is.

As far as code 100 or 83 I'm leaning towards code 100 for the main lines and code 83 for the rest of the layout.

Era I'm thinking late 50s to early 70s, do you guys think it is to much of a span or not enough of a span?


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## Lsmith (Oct 25, 2013)

One thing I have learned already is its your layout. I'm a newbi I own nothing but a bench and a peace of 3foot flex track code 100. I'm going to do little of all really. I live in a rural area so we have buildings from 20s to 2013. Small town of 13,000


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

Lsmith said:


> One thing I have learned already is its your layout. I'm a newbi I own nothing but a bench and a peace of 3foot flex track code 100. I'm going to do little of all really. I live in a rural area so we have buildings from 20s to 2013. Small town of 13,000


That's the beauty of the hobby! It's yours to do with as you please. As of now I too just have a hunk of flex track on a piece of pink foam that serves as my test track for the projects I have going. There is a move in my future and I plan on having a decent sized layout. There will be some operations in the mix, but I just plan on running those trains! I already have several time frames and areas of scenery in the thought mix. I'm going to be running steam right next to present day stuff. I'm even going to have some fantasy trains running. It'll be sweet seeing the UP back in passenger service!


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## morland (Sep 25, 2012)

Lsmith said:


> One thing I have learned already is its your layout. I'm a newbi I own nothing but a bench and a peace of 3foot flex track code 100. I'm going to do little of all really. I live in a rural area so we have buildings from 20s to 2013. Small town of 13,000


Good to see a fellow Arkansan on the forum! I live in the Greenbrier area...what area are you at?

-Trever


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*continuous improvement*

I'm getting back into this hobby and I'm accepting the challenge to convert over to DCC and to automate the train control aspect using JMRI software and, I think Digitrax hardware, possibly with a NCE control station. And, while that's being accomplished, along with continuous improvement on scenery detail, Well, it just never ends. Visit the Granite Gorge & Northern Blog here at M.T.F. Regards, tr1


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Gamebits said:


> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I can certainly understand somebody who spent years building a DC model with dozens of locos being reluctant to switch.............


That was me. I have the best of both worlds. I started out with DC for 40 years. When I switched to DCC I wondered why I wanted so long. The way that I would compare them would be, DC = bread and butter, DCC = Seven course steak dinner. I will always have stuff that runs DC only. With the flip of a DPDT switch I can go from DC to DCC.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

tr1 said:


> ........ I think Digitrax hardware, possibly with a NCE control station. .........


For the most part you can use decoders form any manufacturer. The command station, throttle, and panels need to be the same brand.


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## Lsmith (Oct 25, 2013)

morland said:


> Good to see a fellow Arkansan on the forum! I live in the Greenbrier area...what area are you at?
> 
> -Trever


Around the Harrison area.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Gamebits

You ask about establishing an 'era' for your layout. That's something that
is very personal to you. There is no right or wrong.

But, if you want to stick to it there are certain things to keep in mind.

The Steamers were mostly gone by the 60s as the diesels took over. 
But the big powerful diesel beauties you see so much of on the Forum are
a more recent design.

By default, because my initial loco buys, my layout has evolved into
a midsouthwestern area of the 50s/60s where Santa Fe reined supreme. The steamers
had gone. But even if they could negotiate one less than 22" curve, the
big diesels would be out of place on my rails. And besides, that was the time of
our country that I feel was at it's best.

Don


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## Gamebits (Jan 5, 2011)

I feel the same way where the 50s and 60s were a good time for the railroads, if I had to do a layout for the 2000s in my neighborhood I would have to landscape empty field with a long stretch of bicycle path, sure there are those fancy super fast train, especially in Europe, what would be the scale speed for those trains? 60mph? Watch out dry wall here I come


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Dcc hardware combinations*

Hey,Southern, What are panels? Please
Regards,
tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*contemplating DCC upgrade*

could someone explain what panels are please in the thread up above
thank you,
tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*DCC hardware combinations*



Southern said:


> For the most part you can use decoders form any manufacturer. The command station, throttle, and panels need to be the same brand.


Please, what does this above mean? panels need to be the same brand


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

I would say that panels are what you plug the throttle into if you are not wireless. The throttle to command station need to be the same manufacturer. The wires between need to have common connectors. Easiest done with same manufactures parts.
Larry


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Tr1 the panels are a reference to the items you attach to the fasia board around the outside of the layout that have like a telephone plug in them. They are for moving the throttle from place to place and are called panels. The throttle has a memory in it so you can unplug it and move to a different control spot without losing what you have running. These panels are usually used on large layouts where moving around with a train would be necessary. If you can run your railroad from one psot then the panels arn't needed. Pete


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

gamebits, It is my opinion that setting up the a layout with multiple block areas, normally located close to switch(turn outs) would be advantages for multiple operating styles. dc or DCC
Regards,
tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm wondering which controller is more versatile,NCE or digitrax
thankyou, tr1


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