# Outlet in the wall, and still use it???



## CF-DRG (Apr 13, 2020)

So I have an outlet in the wall, and there will be a trestle passing over it.. Anyone got any ideas how this should be done?? The section is not finished and I put a bashed together trestle there to see what it would look like and what I have to do... But I'm not thrilled with this look ( trestle ).. Any bridge/trestle ideas that might work and look good? This is a logging layout so a crude "whatever" would be ok... Typical " design the layout, and deal with the problems as they occur ".. Come-on you " should have thought of this before you laid track" modelers , you can chew me out  ...


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The outlets look like faces. How about painting some scary faces and call it an Indian Hieroglyphic.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

The trestle looks pretty good to me so far!

As for the outlet, just keep blending it in like you did to the blank cover plate above it. Darker colors will hide the slots & ground lug hole better. I think, using spackle or caulk, you could blend the plate edges into the wall, then touch up the paint and they would disappear completely. Of course the thread title says, "and still use it", so something plugged in would negate all the effort to hide it.


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## 65steam (Dec 18, 2019)

I see that you are painting over the cover plates, so why not insert outlet safety covers (typically used to keep toddlers out) and then paint over those? You would be able to remove them for using the outlet and then replace them.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

As was stated the outlet should be able to be disguised with paint matching the surroundings. The question is, does the outlet have to be used in order to run the trains? If not, then it probably won't be noticed while they are running. If it's only needed when they are not running but something else in the room needs to be plugged into it, I don't think it's a big distraction to the layout. Just my thought.


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

Crazy idea but if there's room between the backdrop and the layout...get a extension cord that's designed for tight spaces. It should have a 90° bend to it. This way the cord can be placed under the layout for use. Then paint the plug to help disguise it in the outlet. To me that would be better than reaching across the layout with a cord and damaging scenery or other items in the immediate area.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

What @5kidsdad said. Buy one kf these & make life easier. https://www.amazon.com/Socket-Ultra...t=&hvlocphy=9017088&hvtargid=pla-813820943924
Alternatively, could you have the backdrop behind the trestle painted onto styrene that can be lifted out?


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

Glad I read all the thread posts first. 
I had three ideas in my head. Two of which I’ve done. 
I see that 65steam, 5kidsdad, and Oilvalley all beat me to typing. 
Great minds.  

KW62


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I agree, the trestle looks awesome! Just what a gotta-have trestle might look like. And any of the design suggestions for the outlet would work.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Why not just design a covering piece of material that allows you to plug in behind it?


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

And obviously the outlet can't be relocated lower down the wall. Of course not, silly, its embedded in concrete foundation wall!! 

What about using Wiremold conduit and boxes to lower outlet. You could then mold over the upper junction box and paint it to appear as a rock outcropping with a trestle support.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Make a flat cover for it painted the brown you began.. paint vertical lines on it representing tree trunks, et al..
Use toothpicks / other to go right into the female slots to hold it up..Pull it out when you need the outlet..
OR,
Remove cover plate all together and run brown lamp wire from the box downward to under layout to the male plug of a power strip. Cover plug with electric tape..Stuff things (lichen?) around upper box and wire to look natural and, fuggeddaboudit !!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

telltale said:


> Remove cover plate all together and run brown lamp wire from the box downward to under layout to the male plug of a power strip. Cover plug with electric tape..Stuff things (lichen?) around upper box and wire to look natural and, fuggeddaboudit !!


IMO, that's a _*REALLY BAD*_ idea! First off, running lamp cord from inside the box is against every electrical code that I'm aware of! My first house had that done, and the wiring insulation had rotted over the years, I wonder how they didn't burn the house down! Same comment applies to covering a kludge wiring job with electrical tape.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If you dont need yhe outlet, just remove it and put a cover plate one it. Otherwise, as GRJ said, build up the scenery in front of it. Or, get an extention for the box and drop a reguler conduit down with 12or14/2 wire and put the outlet under the layout. I also dont like the lamp wire idea, but it was done in the 60s and 70s all over the place on old homes. Not safe, but they did it.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> IMO, that's a _*REALLY BAD*_ idea! First off, running lamp cord from inside the box is against every electrical code that I'm aware of! My first house had that done, and the wiring insulation had rotted over the years, I wonder how they didn't burn the house down! Same comment applies to covering a kludge wiring job with electrical tape.


A relative of mine bought a house.
Unbeknownst to him, previous owner ran lamp cord from box.
Covered whole wall with mirrors.

A month after moving in, the wall caught fire.

If it was my house, I'd open up the wall and relocate the outlet lower or put it in the floor (if accessible).


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Dennis461 said:


> A relative of mine bought a house.
> Unbeknownst to him, previous owner ran lamp cord from box.
> Covered whole wall with mirrors.
> 
> ...


Easy enough if its not a block wall. But if it is, not really feasible. But only the op can answer that. Yea, those 18 /20 guage extentions they used in the past were scarry. Some had 3 outlets on them, others just had an open strip you could plug a gazillion things into.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> IMO, that's a _*REALLY BAD*_ idea! First off, running lamp cord from inside the box is against every electrical code that I'm aware of! My first house had that done, and the wiring insulation had rotted over the years, I wonder how they didn't burn the house down! Same comment applies to covering a kludge wiring job with electrical tape.


Alright John ! You don't need to *yell* at me ! I'm a modeler, not a licensed electrical contractor.


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## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

I would fashion a water fall out of some material and plug in behind it.


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## CF-DRG (Apr 13, 2020)

The track is 3" from the wall.. And I will be using the plug.. I'm going to redesign the trestle and add 2 bents on the left side and reinforce the the 4" gap over the outlet (for show).. The way it is now is "Meh" so think I will try this..


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## RedJimmy1955 (Aug 23, 2021)

I think this best idea....already suggested...is for you to simply put on "toddler proof" outlet safety covers. Then simply paint over them, and/or add lichen over them so as to camoflage and have rock shrubbery. USING LAMP CORD????? What GRJ said!!! Hot time on the layout tonight!!


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

A question for the OP. Is there any way of sneaking a cord through the background for a plug like OilValley had suggested from Amazon? At least that option could be painted to help hide the outlet and with the outlet underneath it would be more functional in my eyes. I would suggest the cable clamps used to hold it to the exterior of the house to route the plug to where you need it.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

*Hello*, 
I, in post #12 suggested 'lamp wire' to carry 110v from outlet behind his trestle to a power strip below.. I probably should have phrased it "Use appropriate gauge wire and insulation, et al"..
My thinking was, the same current as in the wall outlet is the same current in lamp wire to a lamp or mixer, and thought OP would more likely have a length of that 'than what electrical contractors would use'.
We are only modelers of miniature trains..We need not chastise each other over well-intentioned mistakes..
*This is a hobby*..All one need do when someone has made a wrong call within it is to simply respond with a friendly suggestion as to why the info/advice is incorrect and needs a heads-up or warning why; not an egotistical diatribe toward a member or a blatant put down over it..*It's a hobby !! *Not every member is going to know everything about everything when offering a friendly response to an OP, or within his or her own thread.....*Hello ! It's a hobby !! ✌ *


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I liked your idea, just not the wire used. All good. In fact, I now have an updated idea, instead of an extention box, just get a blank plate. Drill a hole in it to accept a emt fitting ( plastic or metal) just put a 90 on it and run the emt stright down the wall. Add a handi box and the outlet at the end of the emt. Paint the cover and emt to look like an oil or water line or large drain pipe. Done.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Make sure, if you do the extension cord thing, that the cord is rated for 20A. 
I’m assuming that’s what the “20” indicated on the wall plate.


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## CF-DRG (Apr 13, 2020)

The "20" is breaker #20 in my main panel.. Just a standard 15A circuit.. Lots of good ideas, when I do finish it i'll post a pic with what has been done..


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## Djsfantasi (Mar 19, 2019)

rrman987 said:


> And obviously the outlet can't be relocated lower down the wall. Of course not, silly, its embedded in concrete foundation wall!!
> 
> What about using Wiremold conduit and boxes to lower outlet. You could then mold over the upper junction box and paint it to appear as a rock outcropping with a trestle support.


Relocation of the plug, even using wire mold conduit, may also violate electrical code. Outlets must be a certain minimum distance from the floor.


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## WdVal (6 mo ago)

Depends on what & how often you use the outlet. I suggest you could plug a power strip into it & relocate the power to another less conspicuous location then camo the plug and the cord to blend into your amazing work you have already done. Keeping it semi accessible incase you need to replace. The plug could be a rock formation & the cord tucked into the landscape along the ridge is a good place to hide things. I'm not seeing what all the surroundings are beyond the pic.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

RedJimmy1955 said:


> I think this best idea....already suggested...is for you to simply put on "toddler proof" outlet safety covers.


. . . or instead craft a decorated cover for the whole plate, perhaps with magnetic or velcro attachments to allow easy access. In place, the plate should be able to completely cover and disguise the outlet, yet allow the outlet to be used at need with the cover removed. As currently redecorated, the open outlet pretty well blends in IMHO, and as others have said, when something _is _plugged in, the illusion will be broken anyway.

And yes, employing brown cord in any attempt to "******* engineer" a "solution" is a BAD IDEA -- full stop, caps intended!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Camouflage it to match the rock face . Put lychen near it foot distraction from it.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

Djsfantasi said:


> Relocation of the plug, even using wire mold conduit, may also violate electrical code. Outlets must be a certain minimum distance from the floor.


Codes, smodes, who pays attention to them. Codes are for wimps. Real modelers do what they want electrically, and heck with what others tell them. Now whats that funky smell and wisps of smoke all about????


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

Djsfantasi said:


> Relocation of the plug, even using wire mold conduit, may also violate electrical code. Outlets must be a certain minimum distance from the floor.


I do not think there is a height requirement in the NEC Code


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

AFAIK there is no minimum height requirement in the NEC. EDIT: Well not for standard situations like a bedroom. A bathroom has both height and lateral spacing requirements. But never mind that. However, Local & State requirements may exist for a minimum height. But none of that applies when using an extension cord. And I still think the low-profile “flat” plug type with a styrene removable backdrop in front of it would be best.
Technically painting an outlet is a code violation & possible fire hazard if enamel paint is used. But even spray painting the new child-proof type (so the inner contacts don’t get painted) isn’t allowed. I didn’t know that until after I had made half a dozen “copper” outlets. The fire risk is probably very low. I think the reason is to prevent signs of overheating from being covered up or something.

FWIW most duplex receptacles are the exact height of a hammer handle, which is about 16”. It’s not coincidence, it’s efficiency.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I have seen duplex recepticles installed horizontally in wide baseboards, only 2 inches or so above the floor….


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> I have seen duplex recepticles installed horizontally in wide baseboards, only 2 inches or so above the floor….


Common in older structures when electrical is being added or upgraded. Especially when lathe/plaster walls are present.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I have seen outlets in the floor itself, usually in an open great room where a couch and end tables would be away from the walls and the lamps plugged into the floor outlets.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Gramps said:


> I have seen outlets in the floor itself, usually in an open great room where a couch and end tables would be away from the walls and the lamps plugged into the floor outlets.


You just described my living/great room.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

There may be restrictions in below grade basements. But , I have no idea. Usally the outlets are like a hammers height off the floor.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

sjm9911 said:


> There may be restrictions in below grade basements. But , I have no idea. Usally the outlets are like a hammers height off the floor.


Remember, _every_ jurisdiction writes its own rules about electrical safety, and there are many places in the country that have_ no _building codes at all. _Only_ by checking your local authorities (if any) can you determine exactly what can and cannot be done in any particular structure. There _are_ national "model codes" which may have been adopted locally, in whole or part, and of course there's common sense and hard experience, but anyone asserting authoritatively what can and can't be done who isn't well versed in _your_ location is just blowing smoke (figuratively . . . or perhaps literally if they've been using brown cord! )


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Steve on Cattail Creek said:


> Remember, _every_ jurisdiction writes its own rules about electrical safety, and there are many places in the country that have_ no _building codes at all. _Only_ by checking your local authorities (if any) can you determine exactly what can and cannot be done in any particular structure. There _are_ national "model codes" which may have been adopted locally, in whole or part, and of course there's common sense and hard experience, but anyone asserting authoritatively what can and can't be done who isn't well versed in _your_ location is just blowing smoke (figuratively . . . or perhaps literally if they've been using brown cord! )


Spot on. Although most States have adopted it and require licensed Electricians to attend a class/pass a test every few years covering the safety updates. It’s widely adopted as the standard, but local Inspector/code demands are “god” and the final say. If an inspectors wants it done in a way that violates the NEC, you violate it & pass inspection.
Like that sticker on lawn mowers that say “keep feet away from moving blade,” those safety codes are there because somebody, at some point, created a need for it. Some ******* probably tried to trim his toe nails on the Deere… and jumping back to NEC that’s why there are things like box fill, minimum distance for outlets from a bathtub, etc. Because somebody thought it a good idea to make toast while having a bath.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

OilValleyRy said:


> ... but local Inspector/code demands are “god” and the final say.


When my late father was building his retirement home, during one of the 37 inspections (he kept track), the idjit told him that "the [masonry] chimney cannot be against the house" (what!?!).

Dad went inside, got his copy of the code book, handed it to the idjit and said, "Show me where it says that." Idjit took another look and decided it was ok.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Well, good for your Dad . . . but an equally (more?) likely scenario is the idjit folds his arms, leans back and says, "Good luck getting your certificate of occupancy without my approval!" Ten grand in attorney fees and four years later, your Dad might actually be vindicated and allowed to move in (and the idjit might get a tiny black mark in his Permanent Record), but . . . 

I believe there's a saying about fighting city hall . . .


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

I am aware. Had a few set-tos with CE when my own house was being built.

Well, I didn't. The contractor did.

Good ol' boy network in full effect. You can be sure palms get greased.


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Steve on Cattail Creek said:


> Well, good for your Dad . . . but an equally (more?) likely scenario is the idjit folds his arms, leans back and says, "Good luck getting your certificate of occupancy without my approval!" Ten grand in attorney fees and four years later, your Dad might actually be vindicated and allowed to move in (and the idjit might get a tiny black mark in his Permanent Record), but . . .
> 
> I believe there's a saying about fighting city hall . . .


On reflection, my response, while supportable, is a bit too flip without adding a bit more:

First, local inspectors are, in general, a well-intentioned lot, genuinely trying to do a good job and protect the community. As such, I generally start by assuming good will and competence until shown otherwise. At the same time, I try to use any opportunity to "talk the talk" with the inspector, to demonstrate that I'm neither a chronic rule-breaker nor corner cutter, and that I have more than passing familiarity with the matter under inspection. In other words, I try to qualify myself as one of the "tribe" and an ally, rather than either a loose cannon threat or clueless newbie.

Second, if a contestable matter _does_ come up, I first evaluate whether its a matter worth contesting. Right or wrong, it's almost always easier to ride a horse in the direction it's heading, so if you can live with the inspector's decision, IMHO it's almost always better to do so, even if s/he is dead wrong.

Third, if the matter is serious enough to contest (and putting aside the "greasing palms" gambit, which has its own tactical (and criminal!) downsides! ), I'd suggest trying your Dad's approach -- carefully _not_ confrontational but rather informational, gently but firmly asking the inspector to back up his/her conclusions in code provisions or some other written basis. Also, make it as easy as possible for the inspector to back down -- it may be fun to crow, but you're just asking for the inspector to get his/her back up, or find something else to complain about later.

Sorry to wax pedantic, but I just didn't want to leave the impression that all interactions with inspectors have to be a urination contest . . .


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