# demise of layout # 18 and a new # 19 Updated 10-10-2018



## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

due to my wife/artist for the current layout climbing on top of layout was no longer an option for either of us! the photo showing the roundhouse area cut off a foot or more of walking area plus it was 4 feet off of floor and to reach the back tracks was a chore.
so we tore it all out except for the lower track you see in photo and where the passenger area was is now the new home of the roundhouse and turntable and diesel shed.
the table on left side of layout is a switching area and is currently at 44 1/2" off floor would like to lower it some more as all switches are manual caboose industries throws. the hell gate bridge will be on opposite side of table across from the switching table and it took me a few days to figure out how to have an elevation so all of the lower brick work was visible yet the trains did not actually climb up to it.

the lower level will be a reduced in size of the passenger depot area we took 2 days off to tend to yardwork and our dryer felt the trains were getting all the attention so had to test various parts but good news its fixed and so now can resume working on the train rebuild again.

today is wiring up the lower level and getting all the gremlins worked out then can move on to the upper level.

with luck the photos will attach correctly as I could only upload one at a time and still might be to big in size guess the next click on submit button will tell me the end results! I will post updates and photos as the rebuild continues.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2018)

A right of passage in our hobby, EB. Change. Nothing wrong with this to produce your changing needs. Should be a very interesting project for all of us to follow.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Have fun with it. Looks like it ought to be a lot!!

"The only thing that never changes is change itself." D. B. Coulson


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

EB, what is that light green diesel, #2010? That looks like a sharp locomotive.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Vincent said:


> EB, what is that light green diesel, #2010? That looks like a sharp locomotive.


GE's Evo?


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

Right you are, Lee. Despite its 21st century origins, it is considered one of the most influential locomotives in history Lionel made a train set of it, but I cannot find out if the Lionel cars actually exist.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well I actually have the lower level track wired and running as well as the lift bridge is wired and operational again. the 2 switches for the passenger depot are a work in progress so far the tortoise switch machines are installed am now doing the wiring for them.

the 2 passenger tracks are not powered yet. I finally discovered why I had a slow down from 3 feet prior to lift bridge it seems the chief engineer was powering the tracks using the bridge lift power supply!

I finally found a way around DCS and its many engine not on track yada yada issues …. run them as a conventional engine gee they run so well and I can use the tmcc/legacy remote. yes the lower level has an original TPC so I can go either way conventional or command best part I need no magic light bulbs!


Vincent yes the green engine is a GE EVO by Lionel I ran it once since new! is a cool engine with the chasing lights going. 


PTC yes change is good keeps my old bones mobile LOL

I have a track plan unfortunately is on my old windows XP and no internet so not able to post it but the second level is a double track with 0-72 and 0-63 curves the 0-72 will be the outer track and 0-63 on the inner track no connections from one to the other as the artist said forget the spaghetti motif I need scenery and building space.

I had a separate logging line but now will have to be on the second level somehow!

I really had to get creative to lower the table for second level and still have enough height for the lower level trains to clear.

I hope someone here has the info on how to modify the lift bridge so tall cars can run threw it without hitting the cross member??

best part of rebuild is I'm able to re-use most if not all of lumber from the last layout I did have to buy one sheet of 5/8" plywood and 1 4x8 sheet of homasote I think it was $41 after paying almost $2000 for lionels BB I feel the cost of the homasote was a bargain!

okay back to wiring will update as things move forward

thanks for following this


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

Love layout construction threads.Looking forward to following your progress,enjoy.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

EP, you do realize that if you take your Windows XP track plan and copy it onto a thumb drive, you can then install it on your main computer and post it here.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Vincent thanks for the thumb drive information I hadn't thought of it now the layout is in the old railroad track 4.0 and I don't remember if all can view it?


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well my idea of using a curved switch from ross hit a big snag as I had envisioned a 0-64 or 0-72 curve with the 0-54 going the opposite way as in I was thinking of a regular straight switch with the diverging route heading off to the right!

I have a spot where I can use I hope a regular ross left hand switch and utilize 0-54 curve to gain access to roundhouse area but that's in distant future right now.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well had to convert from a bmp file to a to a jpeg good thing I know how to search the internet !!


these are basic renderings of the lower level and the upper level I never have learned the entire program but this works for me 

originally the lower level passenger area was going to be 4 tracks but decided 2 was enough.

the next photo shows double track mainline I was going to do a single track with sidings but my better half assured me my thinking was wrong as she wanted 2 tracks to run steam engines on! the hell gate bridge is a huge thing and she wanted to see it all and have the tracks to be on an incline but not enough room to have the trains climb a 6" rise so I did the next best thing I lowered the table 6" and the scenery can do its magic in the illusion.


the train room is 9' 10" wide x 24' 9 1/2" long with a 10' x 4' table extension this is the roundhouse area it goes from top to the left of double track I'm sure there is a way to add it to the image but another thing I didn't try to learn!!

I hope this gives you an idea of what we have envisioned. I forgot to add the photo of the switching area it is 2' wide x 15' long and I used a double slip switch not sure how it will pan out I never had the chance to really run engines and cars threw it as it feeds 4 different sidings I love a challenge 

okay here's the added switching area I have to add a 4"-5" extension to backside of this table for the outer mainline

UPDATED 6-14-2018 I deleted the switching table as its incorrect as to what I built will get another photo of it after the hell gate bridge and clutter are removed sorry.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

empire builder said:


> Vincent thanks for the thumb drive information I hadn't thought of it now the layout is in the old railroad track 4.0 and I don't remember if all can view it?[/QUOTE
> 
> EP, I have never had a problem transferring documents from one version of Windows to another. I have photos that I took on Windows 98 that I have transferred to Windows 10, through a thumb drive, with no problems.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

here is todays accomplishment in first photo is the lower level track going under the upper level tables I have 6 3/8" clearance from top of rail to underside of 2nd level plywood.

the lower level track was cleaned and screwed down entire loop and the passenger tracks are also wired so far as I know all is done on that level under the 2 tables I only need to cut the hot wire for passenger tracks so I can use a on/off toggle to cut power to them independently from mainline and each passenger track.

the second photo shows the track and hell gate bridge as to an approximation of where it will wind up tomorrow will tell if this meets up with track at far end of the 2nd table behind the hell gate bridge. the track is 6 1/2" from table top to underside of track without the plywood and homasote.

and the 3rd photo shows the second table with hell gate bridge and the tracks further away they need to connect to.
that will leave the long switching table to be secured to the risers after we decide exactly where it needs to be!

I feel were getting it done once that switching table is set the track laying should go pretty well unless the chief engineer miscalculated


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

UPDATED 6-14-2018

we have been going 8-13 hour days but the upper level tables and track except for the lift up gate is installed and all electrical blocks are wired and functional.


yesterday my wife and I started the first part of getting an area ready for scenic effects we added a long narrow strip of plywood with drywall and then she used some plaster wrap to blend it in we let it dry overnight. photo # 1


today she repainted one foot of all lower drywall areas to block out black paint from the last layout. Photo #'s 2 & 3


Friday will paint over the white with a lighter blue to blend into darker blue sky area above.

while she was painting I tagged the other block wires dangling in midair so I know whom is what block number I have 5 sets of wires without a home so need to see where they terminate!

the area she wants to scenic first is where the hell gate bridge goes as once its installed removing is not an option.

I ordered some bridge abutments for the double track approaches and if I'm lucky will be able to drill holes from top to bottom to aid in hiding the track power wires!

I also ordered a bunch of scenic express flexible girders for use in same areas or at least that's the thought process at this time.

the hardest table of all to deal with was the switching table as it was never undone so we had to man handle 13 feet x 2 feet wide with plywood and homasote attached but we got it done!


we also bought 25lbs of ballast that the artistic wife picked out we will see if it looks as good as it did on the web page.


all the switches on switching part of layout are the caboose industries manual throws and are reachable from the front edge of main table the only 2 tortoise switch machines are on the lower level for the passenger tracks not sure how that will pan out as they are hidden under the hell gate bridge table! but then they are from the Cadillac maker of switches Steve Ross most of these switches are 17 years young and still going as built says a lot for his products!


that's all for now hope your enjoying the journey with us.


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

Coming along nicely EB:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2018)

Very interesting project, EB. Please post more photos when you can. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

good day no photos yet but walls are ready for the artistic scenery. the scenic express order arrived yesterday with the 14 girder panels and 8 FL 6305 single bridge abutments I was wondering how to hide the power drop wires for the track leading to and from hell gate bridge!

well I had an idea that sounded like a solution but wasn't sure if the material was drillable? as I learned it is and it worked so the track power wires are in middle of the track block and will be hidden within the bridge abutments as am using the 26 1/2" girders so the area under tracks is open so not able to have wires coming up from terminal strip without seeing them otherwise!

now for the question these girders have a angle at each end should I trim them off or leave alone? next question can they be mounted upside down as well as right side up? also would small nails or a CA glue be used to attach them to either the wood track support or to homasote? no real way to clamp in place so wood glue not an option nor clamping them at all for any glue to set.

being a mere 1 3/4" tall they look funny right side up as with 5/8" plywood and a 1/2" homasote so only have 5/8" above tracks what are your thoughts on this? but they look nice upside down even with top of homasote.


I know the real hell gate bridge has higher support columns but seeing I only have 5 1/2" from underside of track support to table top below I didn't think trying to make those columns would really look right and seeing the bridge abutments are 5 1/2" tall it seemed like a perfect solution even though they are for single track in our modeling world we can fudge some here n there and these abutments will also accept a drywall screw as long as you stop when screw head hits a solid surface.

25 lbs of ballast doesn't look very big in its bag either but am sure it will give me an idea as how much more we will or will not need! I'm at a standstill on getting the lift gate re-installed and tracks aligned as well as the 2 track mini power on/off switches until the artist is done so I can put the hell gate bridge and approach tracks back into place so I know where to set the lift gate at the end of those tracks.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

good day all no pictures yet to show as I'm having an electric issue with a microswitch controlling the track power to and from lift gate which I have another thread going on it and a forum member is helping me resolve it.

yesterday was my Wife's birthday so our daughter took us all to a place called butterfly wonderland in Scottsdale,Az if anyone here lives in Az and like butterflies reptiles and fish take the time to go see it we spent 4 hrs there and thought we only been there an hour its that good!

so today I have to get blood work then yardwork then we can resume working on train layout.


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

My track is on a 1/2" plywood base and the girders are glued to the sides of the plywood with liquid nails . I don't understand why you can't clamp them until the glue is set.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

papa3rail said:


> My track is on a 1/2" plywood base and the girders are glued to the sides of the plywood with liquid nails . I don't understand why you can't clamp them until the glue is set.


papa3rail good morning the girders you used are they from scenic express? as that's where I bought mine and am unsure if liquid nails or other glues affect them?

my curves are not as round and smooth as yours and I only have 2 clamps wide enough to do this I used 5/8" plywood with a 1/2" homasote so I'm already at 1 1/8" thick and the girders are 1 3/4" tall so leaves 5/8" above the homasote and it just looks silly! so we felt it would look better installed upside down which in turn will hide the splice plates used from curve to straight track.

we re-used all wood from prior layout to create this one. I assume you have cork or? under your tracks we tried cork on plywood and with trains running could not hear ourselves think much less the newer trains sounds!

homasote in our area is $41 a sheet of 4'x8' and we find it a bargain verses noise deafening rail sounds without it, only our choice all others can use whatever makes you and or wallet happy.

thanks for the reply


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

good morning all I have an update with pictures the backdrop painting has been accomplished so we were able to set the hellgate bridge in place and installed the lift gate as well as getting a few wiring goofs corrected and with the aid of forum member Patkn wired the micro switches correctly so the approach tracks to and from are un-powered when lift gate is open. the area with the 2 rubber door stops is for when the lift gate is open and softens the touch while its in raised position looks ugly but serves a purpose!
I drilled 2 bridge abutments to conceal the track power wires from view as the area for the hellgate bride under track support will be open so needed to hide the wires! we purchased from scenic express 14 girder panels that we will use for the hellgate approach tracks to and from we intend to install them upside down to hide the splice plates as well as the wires from underside of where a lake area is.

I have run a screw from topside of track support into the bridge abutments and like homasote they will hold as long as you do not go past a snug tightening I still need to run a screw from the underside of table to secure them so the track support table stays in place right now the weight of the track plywood is holding it all in place.

all mainlines are now powered and tested running engines from a crawling speed to full speed I noticed they tended to lean outward even though they are 0-72 and 0-63 curves so with some 12 gauge solid wire I super elevated them as well as the 0-63 curves on the inner mainline now any engine including the old post war lionel run off the curve engines can run at full speed and nary a lean or go flying off track on these curves not that I like to run that fast but I do believe to insure if a full throttle run by a youngster or myself that all will be okay!

we intend to get the hellgate area scenery in place first and then move onto the next area which I will second guess my wife and say that the area at rear wall with the trees and a dark green and lighter green will be next the only thing I know for sure is in the corner where walls meet is a planned waterfall and I'm hoping a small lake with the liquid water effect the artist/scenery person has not decided what else will be done there yet!

I added the picture of the area I call the switching table its not a huge switching area track wise but I successfully ran an engine into it and thru my double slip switch as well even though I powered the middle diamond area of it the daylight engine at first stalled out just past it but as I kept running it things started to get better. this area is where a building I put together 2 years ago will reside forget its name but Jim Barrett modified it so a freight car could go inside it, and where 2 switches are coming off mainline is a lone straight track lower left hand side this I think is where the lumber mill we have will go for the shay engine to service it I might add a switch on that track for another industry and straighten that lower left track out instead of at an upward angle to be decided later.

I hope you enjoy reading this update


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

empire builder said:


> papa3rail good morning the girders you used are they from scenic express? as that's where I bought mine and am unsure if liquid nails or other glues affect them?
> 
> I assume you have cork or? under your tracks we tried cork on plywood and with trains running could not hear ourselves think much less the newer trains sounds!
> 
> thanks for the reply


Mine are from scenic express also.I use liquid nails on a lot of scenery projects.Its nice and thick and wont run off of a vertical surface and I've never had a problem with it reacting to any foam or plastic.
I did read that they are sand blasting these now to remove the mold release from the surface which is good news as I had a heck of a time getting paint to bond well to mine.

I used Woodland Scenics foam roadbed and I have solid rail track.That's enough sound deadening for me.I like to hear'em rockin' those rails.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2018)

A lot of fun to follow your project, EB. Keep the photos coming.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I have finally airbrushed all but 4-5 feet of track side rails and the color well I took a picture of railroad tracks near our home depot to try and match as close as possible to a color chip huh! it seems tracks are an odd breed they are dark in color but not black yet have a darker brown color but not brown and some rust spots with some Az light dirt color tossed in all in same spot!
we went with the light dirt color and will see if I can get airbrush to create a spotty spray for the rust effect.

I have included a photo of the track painted so far we like it but hopefully the spotty rust effect will create a believable look?

I never would have thought that house paint would stick to the shinny metal rail sides! the cleanup of top rails not hard after painting them I sprayed the black rail as well never really liked the black rail and to the more purists 3 rails are not prototypical either


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

papa3rail said:


> Mine are from scenic express also.I use liquid nails on a lot of scenery projects.Its nice and thick and wont run off of a vertical surface and I've never had a problem with it reacting to any foam or plastic.
> I did read that they are sand blasting these now to remove the mold release from the surface which is good news as I had a heck of a time getting paint to bond well to mine.
> 
> I used Woodland Scenics foam roadbed and I have solid rail track.That's enough sound deadening for me.I like to hear'em rockin' those rails.


so the liquid nails is it the construction adhesive or the one for bathroom shower enclosure walls that you use? does it have to be clamped in place until dry? or can I use my brad nailer to anchor them in place with a 5/8" finish nail? I really don't want to make holes if not needed!

thank you for sharing your how to's I like the look of your layout as well


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> A lot of fun to follow your project, EB. Keep the photos coming.


PTC as you know sometimes progress isn't a photo opp until the area being worked is photo ready LOL but I try to update as things progress after rails are painted its onto track ballasting never done it before so will be another new experience for us.

Thanks for watching the progress


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

empire builder said:


> so the liquid nails is it the construction adhesive or the one for bathroom shower enclosure walls that you use? does it have to be clamped in place until dry? or can I use my brad nailer to anchor them in place with a 5/8" finish nail? I really don't want to make holes if not needed!
> 
> thank you for sharing your how to's I like the look of your layout as well


I use the small projects liquid nails,it comes in a squeeze tube is resealable and has a screw on tip you can cut to various sized openings.The red label is white in color recommended for wood metal or concrete.The blue label is clear and recommended for plastic metal and foam. On the girders I used the red label but I've glued everything under the sun together with either one.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/LIQUID-NAILS-4-fl-oz-Super-Glue-Multipurpose-Adhesive/3025115

https://www.amazon.com/Liquid-Nails-LN207-2-5-Ounce-Adhesive/dp/B001C02FW8/ref=pd_bxgy_60_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001C02FW8&pd_rd_r=D05SCYKK584R16TGRH06&pd_rd_w=OeFyp&pd_rd_wg=b9tW8&psc=1&refRID=D05SCYKK584R16TGRH06

Something else you might want to invest in are some Irwin Quick Grip clamps the six inch ones that I have open to about 6 3/4". They are available in several sizes.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-GRIP-4-Pack-6-in-Clamps/1000236165


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

today we spent as much time driving to and from lowes as we did working on train layout!

papa3rail is correct if you need the red label small projects liquid nails lowes home center is only one that carries it in our local. then we needed some more red oxide primer spray paint nope walmart nor ace hardware or home depot that are within a mile of us carry it but hey we can order it for you be here next week ahem!

I've included 2 photos one shows the spotted rust on rail effect using an airbrush the other is the scenic express metal girders we painted red oxide we looked at pictures of hellgate bridge and approach girders and looked a form of red and about all one can get is a really red red so we went this way instead.

if you want a spotted effect with an air brush its simple stay 6-8 inches away and the mist will do the rest! I bought 2 of home depots behr sample paints mixed to our color choices and used half of the dirt color behr chip N220-5 ottertail we sprayed rails with as the base coat and another one called true copper 
chip s-180-7 that we used for the rust color used only a fourth of it.

if you like a challenge go to any railroad track mainline and snap a photo on your phone or? and go to any paint store and match it up this really boils down to what you decide is best choice for the effect you want!
some say oh a dark brown nope rails here anyways are not dark brown nor are they black but somewhere between the 2 colors of which no color chip is available.

I'm going to paint the homasote today a light brown earth color then we can ballast track and start to add the girders now I feel like were getting somewhere!

and yes the trains are running I have a lionel GS-4 and an old mpc gp-20 with one union pacific boxcar I use these for testing after rails painted or re-aligned to make sure any gremlins are found and dealt with I have one curve that engines wiggle in 2 spots I have tried all tricks as I did on the other curves but this one is a stubborn child!! if I had some more 0-72 curved track I'd replace it and see if that cured the issues.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

things are at a slower pace now as in the decision mode of backdrops yes or no as well as I misjudged the total girders needed to cover this area.

we doubled the bridge abutments back to back looks better than the unfinished backs. my wife hand painted 2 wood pieces for taller bridge piers 2"x 6"x 12" with block detail for the other side of layout that is part of approach-way to hell-gate bridge came out nicely only took 8 hrs each!

I'm in process of blending a seam and drywall at bottom that actually extended past the larger area by a 1/2" need to sand it today and then a skim coat for the minor holes in places a 
dry wall'er I am not so good at!

I have 2 spots in 1 each ross/gargraves straight track that no matter what I do has a dead spot I have used denatured alcohol on no help I used green scratch pad no help I took the entire area apart re-crimped track all pins are good and tight still no help so will try another engine just to be sure not an engine issue I even soldered a jumper wire for both common rails that didn't affect it either I am stumped!

I have included 2 pictures of girders in place we still need 3 more sets of bridge abutments. we also have started the depot area the smaller section and wider one with depot on it was at one time all one piece somehow luck came into play as to where i cut it apart and the wooden dowels fell exactly where we needed them to clear the passenger tracks! the track without a passenger car on is the lower level mainline. we had to create 2 custom made tunnel portals for the passenger area as well as the mainline that is beyond this area exiting from area where you see a yellow step ladder in picture.

the gray area running at outside of tunnel on lower level is a sheet of blue foam we created as a block wall still needs some fine tuning for a better fit. I also took time to thread wires into the bridge towers so if we decide to light up the walkway arches we can do so.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

it has been a long time but my wife/train partner has been ill past 3 weeks so the item we wanted to put up as well as anything else was on hold!
glad to report she is well and today we tackled a big job or at least for us it was big.

as they say a picture tells more than words and I attached 2 views of the backdrop we mounted today.

this is not an ordinary backdrop from any of the makers of backdrops you can buy in I think any gauge you might model.

no they didn't really have what we wanted so we went online and found what we wanted and paid a fee so as not to infringe on copying the photo a small price to pay for piece of mind!

we then tried getting the few backdrop makers to create from our photos but ran into issues so we went an alternate route with of all places Fed-X/ Kinkos and had the photo not only enlarged to 3 feet tall x 12 feet long but they also reversed the photo as alone it was not big enough to stretch to that size so its same image just the right one is reversed from the left side and ironically where the two images meet is almost centered on the hellgate bridge we couldn't have planned for that if we tried!

it was a hot humid day and the rubber cement dried so fast we could only work in 8" segments at a time. I'm thinking 3m 77 adhesive would have been better choice then again maybe not?

after backdrop glue has had a few days to dry really good I will remove bridge so my artistic wife can paint her waterway and stream as well as the roadway in then we can set bridge into place for good we hope.

so if you ever need a big backdrop try fed-x they can make up to 60" high and the length is limitless or so they said. and once they have your photo and you okay the proof its ready for pickup 24 hrs later. and the price was $240 out the door in case you were wondering. in our case it was a day and a half from placing order to when we picked it up.

so what do you think of this verses the other backdrop makers you can order from? we are pleased with this backdrop but not easy to do attaching to painted drywall on the vertical now we know why most mount to Masonite on the flat and level then attach that to the wall as a unit!


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

Not only the backdrop but the bridge is a work of art.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Very nice backdrop. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2018)

Beautiful backdrop. I have always liked fall scenes and this one is excellent! Happy your wife is feeling better, EB.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

The backdrop looks great. I'm glad your wife is feeling better. 

Pat

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Vincent I would like to take credit for the bridge but it was made by mth many years ago!

Spence thank you for the kind words hope your layout is moving along as well.

PTC it took a few days searching online to find this photo but was worth the effort! Tammie is from Pennsylvania moved to Yuma as a child and I am from twin cities/Minnesota so fall scenes are in our blood so to speak.

we had thought of having it laminated but they had samples and when we laid it on the backdrop it dulled the vibrant fall colors really bad so left it as you can see in photos.
the room is only 9feet wide so hard to get a head on picture and my camera skills are set to auto and click.

we have a corner that we want to make a waterfall scene in and plan on using Fed-X again for the backdrop but that's a ways off!

the backdrop area is about 17 feet long and 3 feet wide and also will have a passenger train depot area on a lower level. tammie wants an elevator clear mind you for the illusion of people getting from passenger platform up into the depot. but we want to get this area done first and then move on to next area even though scenery never really done but at the moment you think its done so move on so to speak.

the artist is looking at her paint color chip book so the creative juices are already at work today. will update as we get more done with this current scene area.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PatKn thank you Tammie is happy to feel well again hopes not to get whatever it was again!
and thanks again for the help on those micro switches and correct wiring of them for my track lift panel its still working I made a schematic so next time I have to do one I know the correct way to wire them you were of great help on that.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2018)

Really nice to have a wife that is so active in the construction of your new layout. It can only make it better in so many ways. Tammie has to be a treasure to you.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC Tammie is not only my wife of 44 years but my best friend and fellow train nut! of all life's decisions I have made marrying tammie was the smartest one all the rest pale in comparrison.

as I type she is blending repainting over clouds and darker blue to blend it into the backdrops sky color. not sure if she plans on re-adding the clouds again.


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

EB, very nice layout build and fun to follow your progress! With that Arizona heat where is your layout located? Inside your air conditioned home? A separate building?


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Traindiesel the main layout was in closed in patio only with swamp cooler! was not until 2011 that we added AC rooftop with heat and removed the gas furnace. 

now it is in dinning room for main layout that was a carport that also connects to the closed in patio to make an L shaped layout the L part will be strictly an 5 foot x 10 foot roundhouse and turntable area connecting only to the lower single track that also will have a 2 track passenger with a depot above the tracks. in looking at post from last night it appears that one picture has vanished as there were 2 photos!

well I closed out of this thread re entered this post my reply was gone but the other photo reappeared! closed out again came back and the reply appeared strange!!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Traindiesel 

this photo shows very edge of bridge but below it is the lower mainline and where the passenger depot tracks are a small 2 foot at most by 12-16 inch wide platform for an mth bank building converted to a union station in signage only. page 3 shows a better picture of upper level and passenger area with depot sitting on its platform

the upper level where bridge is where the double mainline resides now no connecting switches to move from outer to inner track as I age I find less is more!


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Very cool EB. I’m looking forward to following your progress.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2018)

Fun project to watch, EB. Thanks for the additional photo.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC with current employee changes at CTT is your layout still going to be in that magazine this year?

lesson learned we needed to blend that darker blue into the color of backdrops sky tammie tried to match it but didn't have the colors needed to make her own so we had to cut a 1/4"x1/4" piece off of backdrop so home depot could match it. we should have taken the backdrop when still rolled up and let them scan a section of blue sky then mounted it!


we won't make that mistake again but am sure will make another boo boo somewhere else but it keeps it interesting and a challenge.

were waiting on paint to dry to see how well it will blends in.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2018)

*"PTC with current employee changes at CTT is your layout still going to be in that magazine this year?"*

Yes, Roger Carp and his photographer will be here next week. It will be in their December, 2018 issue. Don't know of any changes at CTT.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC yes I forget his name but they let him go a week or so ago its on there or it was on the operating toy train layouts forum.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

just checking in nothing to show been a life gets in the way time if we ever get back to sky above backdrop we need clouds not an easy task to get the look your wanting!

hopefully today I can get the plexi-glass for elevator shaft and start on a small roadway bridge it will have some small roundish arches as it only needs to be 2" high but needs to be 24" long.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2018)

Looking forward to your next post with photos, EB.


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

Well done!
Peter


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Good evening all been awhile since I had anything to share! its been a hectic few weeks as we had 2 medium sized trees die due to tree cancer so we spent time cutting them down as well as digging up and removing the tree stumps no fun in 100 plus degree temps but is done with.

I'm including 2 photos one shows the platforms for the roadway above passenger tracks as well as the area for the ex mth bank converted to a mini passenger terminal including a miller 
"union station" illuminated sign but it to has an issue somewhere during the years the S in station stopped illuminating so will need a replacement? then again it might be a scenic treasure and can get some workers around it like they are going to repair it! sometimes opportunity knocks if one just takes the time to listen to what its saying.

I also was able to add the facia to the train depot area its not fancy like some here do but we have a ton of unused plywood leftover from the original layout and so will use it up will paint it and that's it.


I still need a plastic box to mount the track power toggle switches to for the passenger tracks and then cut them into the facia I have another plastic box for the tortoise switch machines already with toggles mounted inside them and need it traced onto facia and cut out and screwed into place.


if tammie can get past the clouds above backdrop then she can get waterway painted in and we can re-install the bridge permanently and get the trains running again on that level.
I still have a two foot small arched bridge to make so cars can get over the waterway. I am either going to use some thin model airplane wood stock or a 1/16" clear plastic as both with the grain going length wise will allow it to conform to a very easy curved arch.

in another thread I started about the elevator for the passenger depot area sadly it met a terrible fate as I was trying to saw the doorway area out for the elevator the saw caught the plastic panel and put stress onto it and another one and crackkkkkk they went so a rethink in progress on that idea! at least I tried it nothing ventured nothing gained in this case it blew up in my face big time but i'm not upset just part of an attempt at something I'd never done before a model/scratch builder I am not and at least am honest about it.

our temps and dew/humidity levels have dropped off big time its actually cool at 5-6 am here in the southwest desert but am sure mother nature will return us to what we call awful august with high dew points and humid again but in a few more months as the snow blowers return for some of you we will open doors n windows and enjoy the cooler temps again? maybe possibly depends on mother nature she is a strange character!


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

Looks good, EmpireBuider. But what is the gray, square building in the first picture? I can't read the sign on the front of it.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2018)

Looking good EB. Sorry about the elevator. Union Station looks good.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Vincent said:


> Looks good, EmpireBuider. But what is the gray, square building in the first picture? I can't read the sign on the front of it.


If you click on the picture you can magnify it. It says "Union Station" and above that "1934."


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I was looking at photo of the train depot area and I noticed I never put a wood face across the front part of that platform!

I need to find some small led dwarf lights for the passenger track area even though its short it still adds to the scene if viewable and lit up. past the union depot building is an area that covers the light and layout power box and wiring am thinking this might be a good spot to create a park with picnic tables for railfans to watch the trains.

I added some pictures of clouds a close up of train depot and the passenger tracks hidden under the platforms and the area that could be a railfan/picnic area scene


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Wow!!! Fantastic. Love those backdrops.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

That Union Station is a sharp-looking building.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Lee Willis said:


> Wow!!! Fantastic. Love those backdrops.


https://www.123rf.com/ Lee this is link to where I was able to find the photo for this backdrop. 
we then had Fedx-Kinkos create it for us.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I tried to shoot backdrop pictures as vertical but when I loaded them to post it turned them sideways not sure why?


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2018)

Good progress EB. Sure like to see your photos as we get a good idea as to what you are up to. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

the humble and not so pretty beginnings of the passenger depot elevator attempt # 2 !

I still need to get some more L shaped 1/4 inch plastruct for the corners. also I need to cut 2 plastic panels to allow for the elevator doorways at top and bottom will cut them out prior to gluing in place this time.


this is todays project and I was able to buy some figures so I have a size to gauge the doorways by.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

the backdrop clouds and blending is finished. I messed up another clear plastic panel so off to home depot fo9r another 11x14 sheet!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2018)

Your wife did a tremendous job blending the skyline and clouds. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2018)

The backdrop looks fabulous!


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

Everything is coming along nicely EB:thumbsup:


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector 

my wife appreciates your comment on backdrop
Its taken my wife awhile to get it the way she wanted it as the darker sky in backdrop and the square line from the backdrop borders always bugged her now she is happy!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

papa3rail 

thank you 

it seems like its taking forever to get this area done now my wife wants to do some scenery behind the elevated track area between it and the backdrop all greek to me so far as to explanation as to what she is wanting to do so will be a surprise to us all!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe thanks for the compliment were babes in the woods when it comes to backdrops especially this one as its 12 feet long and 3 feet wide it was a learning experience and we discovered the elmers rubber cement wasn't as easy to work with.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Very impressive, you're racing along with this job!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well rotten fritzen rafters the plastic clear panel cracked yet again and all I did was file the plastic that had a small raised area and broke the 1\4" L angle also so am tossing the idea into the recycle bin.

I'll take time and draw up a diagram and make it out of 1\8" or? that local hobby shops carry probably should have done it to begin with.
Tammie is working on the waterway that will appear to connect with the backdrop and go under the hell gate bridge.
she used rubber cement to glue tinfoil down so liquid water would find no holes then laid plaster cloth over that and is now applying some plaster to fill in the small holes from the plaster wrap. reason for foil was plywood base in waterway area had 4 holes 2"x3" so the tinfoil was the easiest fix

A bump in road have to take our dwarf Siamese cat to vet as has 2 bad teeth and cost is as much as a new legacy locomotive! can remember when a big vet bill was $40 guess those days are long gone! reason I say dwarf her legs are a mere 2 1\2" long when she was 6 weeks old she didn't walk she hopped like a rabbit funniest thing we ever saw and once in a while she will hop for no apparent reason!


I also lost 2 days to infamous virus program and windows 10 virus program froze up and then windows took a dirt nap. all is good again as PC vendor created a windows restore disc as well as settings for hardware with drivers and a support help line that provided a step by step tutorial to get it as it was again some folks online detest I Buy Power PC's but I like it and they are truly there after the sale with tech support that in itself speaks volumes on customer service these days!

the arched bridge is still on back burner as Tammie wants the bridge to be curved lengthwise instead of straight alignment to roadway this ought to be interesting seeing I just bought a nice 1/16" thick x 5" wide balsa wood for the roadway ever try curving a solid piece of wood into a curve and bend downward at same time doesn't work well least wise for me experienced scratch builders would whip it out in short order also needs 3 small round archways for water to pass thru!
a solid piece of foam insulation probably the best way to approach this I think. I was able to get a picture of waterway with the start of coloring being added.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

can anyone tell me why when a photo taken on camera on the vertical loads sideways into a post here?


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

testing mtesting testing testing testing

sorry webmaster thought I could delete this so can you please delete this post.
thank you


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2018)

EB, a glass cutter could fabricate this easily for you. Just a thought.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

They are posted relative to the camera orientation. 

You need to run your photos through Photoshop or another image processor to change the orientation and save that. Then post your photos.

I never upload or post directly from the source.

Also, your camera may not be including .exif tags to the photo, or this board software can't read them.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> EB, a glass cutter could fabricate this easily for you. Just a thought.


PTC
I used a utility knife and a metal level to break the score line on plastic panels that part went well.

my issue is I needed to cut the clear plastic after it was all glued together I used a Dremel and cutoff wheel for all but the very corners that went well but had two nubins in need of filing and thus that's when it all went south for me.

at the time I needed to have the elevator shaft together to make the correct size opening in station platform for it to slide through.


maybe a better approach would have been cut the hole in platform then used some scrap plywood and make the shaft with it at proper height and then cut doorways and used it as a template to measure and cut the plastic panels nothing like hindsight to show ones errors in thought process!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> They are posted relative to the camera orientation.
> 
> You need to run your photos through Photoshop or another image processor to change the orientation and save that. Then post your photos.
> 
> ...


well the photo is in proper orientation in pc-picture area that's why I'm baffled as to why it rotates it from correct view to the sideways view.
the rest a camera buff and or expert I am not im a shoot it post it person I like the kiss method so much lol

thanks for the reply and info much appreciated


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

It's because your PC photo viewer can read the .exif tags your camera includes in the file, while this board software cannot read them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I just load the photos into Farstone Image Viewer and rotate them to the correct orientation before uploading them.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

empire builder said:


> can anyone tell me why when a photo taken on camera on the vertical loads sideways into a post here?


To solve the sideways photo, orient your phone so the camera lens is to the left and the "Home" button is to the right. Your pictures will come out oriented properly without additional fidgeting.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

highvoltage I used my rebel s-3 camera for these layout photos the one for the waterway is the one I shot I believe called portrait it loaded to computer in correct orientation so must be a thing here.
its not a big deal will just take pictures in normal horizontal angle. but will keep the phone info in mind


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

empire builder said:


> highvoltage I used my rebel s-3 camera for these layout photos the one for the waterway is the one I shot I believe called portrait it loaded to computer in correct orientation so must be a thing here.
> its not a big deal will just take pictures in normal horizontal angle. but will keep the phone info in mind


As MichealE mentioned, there's exif information embedded into digital images. Your PC understands and interprets this information correctly. Part of that information is camera orientation, whether it's a smartphone camera or a digital camera such as yours. The board's software doesn't interpret exif tags, so orientation information is lost.

To solve the problem hold a camera in landscape mode or a smartphone horizontally. All pictures will then post properly.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I'm a gluten for punishment am starting on elevator #3 have the sides cut and one side of them glued and drying with 1\4" L angle.

after that dries will glue the opposite side to L angle I have no intention of gluing the front and back panels on until I re-measure and confirm that the size and where it needs to be glued into place so elevator doorway openings are in correct position!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

hot dang I did it! I slowly and methodically worked on elevator shaft all day and its together no broken clear plastic cracked wanged or banged yet!! I used the non glare plastic panels so yes the plastic wrapping is off and so the passenger cars view is muted

I was able to enlarge the hole in passenger depot stations platform to allow the new elevator shaft to slide into it and squarely sit on the green lionel station platform and the Amtrak high level coaches have about 1/8" clearance on each side of track and the elevator shaft as well.


next up is to make the elevator floor for the top area wife decided to only have the top side of elevator doorway open facing the depot building the other 3 are to have the doorways in the closed position with passengers inside at the top of the elevator ready to walk to the passenger station or catch a cab in the now imaginary parking lot.

I've included 3 pictures of the area where the elevator will reside. as well as 2 pictures of the construction of it.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Good job.
Perseverance pays off.

Magic


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2018)

Yes EB, way to go.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2018)

Looking very good, EB.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I have a question at my local hobby shop I spotted some stainless steel sheet products and was wondering what you all thought on using it for the face of the elevator doorways that would be in closed position?

Tammie repainted the area where backdrop and the flat table top is was a green now a brown as well as the hill she created on the far right side. no pics of this yet


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2018)

Stainless steel would look great but I'm not sure how easy it would be to work with. You could use plastic and paint it to look like stainless and I'm sure it would look very good but, of course, the stainless sheet would look even better. If your fairly confident that you could work with it then go for it. If your not sure of how to use it then plastic will look fine. For what it's worth, I would use plastic because I'm confident that I could make good looking doors with it and I'm not confident that I could do it with sheet metal.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe my plan was to keep it all as one flush piece with a very fine black line indicating the outline of the doors themselves. I also was going to glue it inside onto the non glare plastic sheet as the doorway opening is cut out of that plastic its about 3 1\2 inches wide and 1 15\16 inches high. I'll have to cut it out and try inside first to see if non glare thwarts the stainless effect.

the stainless sheet appeared to be same thickness as thin brass sheet stock I'll have to go to hobby shop and check that first.
as to painting the plastic not sure a silver would portray the stainless steel effect unless you know something paint wise that I dont know of?


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well the stainless is out as they only had 12 thousandths thick and no easy way to cut it.
but I did find some 5 thousandths thick gold brass sheet and the wife likes it so will cut some it can be cut with scissors and see if it will do as planned or?

I also asked them if any paints to create the stainless steel effect and so have included a picture of both its a 2 part process like candy colors except this one uses black as the background this I have to see but its airbrush ready to spray my kind of product!

I also will include a picture of the brass sheet still in its cellophane wrapper. not ready for this part yet still need to make the panel ti hide the imaginary motor and elevator cables and pulleys plus need the elevator car itself created yet! 
and lastly a picture of the small vertical hill and rest of area painted brown.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

messed up here are the pictures that didn't make it into my last post prior to this one sorry


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2018)

That stainless steel paint looks right. I guess it's a dark semi flat silver. I think that's going to look really good when you finish it. I think if you cut one piece the size of the door and one piece half the width of the door it would look like an elevator door. Glue the half piece on top of the full piece for the two panel effect.

I just had a thought. If trying to make the door gives you too much grief you could leave the door off like it's open and have people getting on and off of the elevator.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe
the top elevator doorway facing the station building will be the only doorway open or at least that's what the wife says right now!
I have some really thin scrap plastic sheeting I think I'll use that as ginny pig to see how it will look as you described in your post above.
I tried searching for model suppliers of various doors windows but was not able to locate anyone with doorways ready to go for people elevators I guess an escalator is way out of the realm yet we have dogs hiking leg on fire hydrant ironic isn't it! and yes I am laughing loudly on that comment. thanks for you thoughts always good to see if others have a better plan to try as only my time is lost in trying things!

I shook the large black bottle painted a short piece of plastic L angle it is black as it can be I thought it would be a dark silver as well oh well let it dry and add the silver stainless steel color tomorrow see how it turns out will let you know how it looks then


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

worked on the elevator today I have the parts cut for the car part for people to ride up and down in and I cut and glued the wood to simulate a wooden anti slip flooring.
a design change yet again the wife decided the top part of elevator both sides of doorways to be open on both sides on the upper station platform.
need to stain the wood tomorrow and paint the underside of the elevator car plus the white plastic ends where the wooden flor is mounted to.
not sure if the all white plastic L angles should be painted? as its all glued together now so not an easy way to paint them now! I'll have to sleep on this one.

I'm taking pictures as I go of the various items created. I haven't figured out just exactly how I am going to make the elevator doorways yet a new challenge but to me that will be the last part of this project.

the wife/scenery guru has been working on the waterway adding rocks and smaller debris from the banks outward about 2-3 inches the entire length not sure if she is satisfied with it yet as far as I know nothing has been glued down yet.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

good day all moving forward slow but sure tammie poured the ez water we have had for a looooooong time need to get more but this is how it and the rock area looks now.

I just started working on the floor bottoms of elevator car needs a second coat then once its cured I can stain the wood flooring.
I am including some new pictures of waterway.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2018)

Nice work, Tammie and EB.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2018)

She's doing a very nice job on the water. It looks great.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC tammie said thanks


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe
tammie wants to pour some more liquid water tomorrow letting last nights pour cure.


but I was informed the hell gate bridge could be re-installed as she only wants water deeper beyond it heading towards the edge of table top.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

good evening all I have finally gotten more done on the elevator someway somehow the floor for the elevator car sagged!

but all that needs painted so far is done while cleaning the acrylic paint off the one short piece of clear plastic it let go on one end about 2" worth and of course it had to be the front one so now the glue smeared it!

here are some pictures of the stage it is at right now I still need to cut the front and rear panels as well as the top for what I refer to as the mechanical area.

I painted the L angles an aged concrete color looks green to me under the florescent lighting! I painted the lower base for elevator at bottom a flat black and sealed it with a clear matte finish and the elevator car floor is stained a red mahogany with a clear gloss.


not sure how to unwarp that floor for the elevator car do you think a blow dryer and heat the underside of plastic sheeting until it will allow me to flip it and put a bunch of heavy items on top of it to make it see things my way?

I added 3 pictures of what tammie has been up to in front of the backdrop and how it looks with the girder area of upper track level.

that's all for now I think I'll get the bridge back into its proper place tomorrow and get all the tracks installed and screwed down again as Tammie said she is done with area behind it and upper tracks with girders so maybe trains can run again oh my play time! :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2018)

This is a terrific scene, EB.

View attachment 466088


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2018)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> This is a terrific scene, EB.
> 
> View attachment 466088


Ditto. The bridge and scenery look fabulous and the backdrop makes it look like the layout goes on forever.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

tammie decided she didn't like the rocks against the backdrop so she tore it up and this is the result she is now happy with how the rocks and rest of scene looks right now.

I feel sometimes like we have a large naval anchor holding our progress from moving forward but then were further than we were 4 months ago!

Tammie also poured 2 more bottles of realistic water so far it and woodland scenic ez-water not having issues but tammie said she likes the realistic water better no melting of product just open and pour and its self leveling our kind of product.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2018)

Tammie did a super job with the rocks re-do.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Some really nice progress, I hope I can be half as fast with mine! :thumbsup:


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

That looks great. I've used Magic Water and had great results.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

Tammie did a really nice job in that display.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

here are 2 photos with the bridge in place and the track and trains are running on this level again minus an oops!
seems as I left wiring connected to a block but the wires not connected but another set was connected at a different spot in same block that was fine except the non connected spade connectors somehow were touching causing a direct short in that block.
so new rule if you see wires dangling remove them!

we cleaned up the layout table from all the clutter and brought all small buildings trees and so on so tammie can start the scenery from where the approach to and from hellgate bridge. after this area is done will tackle the lower passenger train area then hopefully we can move onto a new adventure!


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

The two of you are doing a fantastic job EB everything is looking great.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Very nice work. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2018)

That is a terrific scene. Be proud if your work.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

we are so encouraged by the reply's its nice to know others see how well it came out so far. tammie is the one with the eye for scenery my input is searching out what she wants online or the muscle end of things to build or tear apart.

the one thing tammie strives for is not perfection but as she sees the constant imperfections in the landscape as we drive around and applies it to the scenery on the layout.

now we have not seen it in person and have never been to New York City so we look at pictures online and adlib from them and in reality most likely not a true rendition of what the hellgate area really looks like. but then we are not trying to replicate it just taking all the elements and combining them for we hope a positive outcome.

we thank you all again for the uplifting replies as some on this forums work is astounding to both tammie and myself.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Driving to NYC is overrated, so you're not missing that much.  I will admit that the bridge is probably one of the highlights.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe 
I plan on making a elevator doorway in styrene only and try that 2 step paint that is supposed to look like stainless steel curiosity gets answers if one listens to inner self!


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2018)

empire builder said:


> Country Joe
> I plan on making a elevator doorway in styrene only and try that 2 step paint that is supposed to look like stainless steel curiosity gets answers if one listens to inner self!


I think plastic painted to look like stainless steel will look great, but of course you won't know for sure until you try it. 

The Hellgate bridge scene looks fabulous. For what it's worth, it doesn't look like the real Hellgate bridge. To try to model the scene accurately, even with a lot of compression, would take much more room than most of us have. Your Hellgate scene looks great and captures the flavor of the real thing.

Here are a couple of pictures of the prototype.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

can you imagine the hours of labor it would take to accurately make a scale model of this bridge.

Country Joe as to the stainless paint I have to wait until this time tomorrow to do the second step of stainless steel paint itself then we all will know how it looks.

side step here... as to air compressor for air brush its the cheapie of 15 or more years ago is the airbrush spray supposed to pulse instead of a constant steady spray?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you made a true scale model of this bridge, it would also be 21 feet long!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If you made a true scale model of this bridge, it would also be 21 feet long!


do I hear …… a new York style garden railroad with a 21 scale foot hellgate bridge oh sweet moma


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2018)

empire builder said:


> can you imagine the hours of labor it would take to accurately make a scale model of this bridge.
> 
> Country Joe as to the stainless paint I have to wait until this time tomorrow to do the second step of stainless steel paint itself then we all will know how it looks.
> 
> side step here... as to air compressor for air brush its the cheapie of 15 or more years ago is the airbrush spray supposed to pulse instead of a constant steady spray?


EB, we can be patient and wait for tomorrow to see how it looks. I think SS paint will look good and plastic is a lot easier to work with than sheet metal.

The airbrush shouldn't pulse. It should be a steady spray.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

empire builder said:


> do I hear …… a new York style garden railroad with a 21 scale foot hellgate bridge oh sweet moma


Well, if you went G-scale, it would probably be around 30 feet long, hope you have a big yard!  Gosh, you could span a real river with that bridge.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

just stopping in no pictures to share we have been working on/off on the backdrop area but had to build 5 more picnic tables and now my better half asked for some half round benches!
were going to visit my brother in florida in 2 weeks so some items needed to order for this area is on hold until we get back.

my bench is full of items to build or make or install this is the slow part of layout scenery and airbrush that took 6 hrs of time to get going helps not on other items to be done but will get there.


I can say this much a track ballast layer I am not so good at I am thinking of shelling out the $200 plus for the ballast king if they are still in business! unless you all have a better idea/s for me to try as I tried the pour and paint brush trick but an artistic person I am not so much.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, if you went G-scale, it would probably be around 30 feet long, hope you have a big yard!  Gosh, you could span a real river with that bridge.


actually I could build it that long and place in backyard as our home is in middle of a curve so backyard is a huge pie shape with the crust at its farthest end. also unlike todays homes where you can meet and greet your neighbors by reaching out a window we own a 30 year old home that developers allowed large lots!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well its been awhile since we had anything to show you what we have been working on where we installed the large backdrop. Tammie has been busy with getting the scenery effect she was striving for. it took her 2 weeks and many a night dreaming of what she liked about it and tore out what she did not the next morning needless to say hard to take any photos and share with you all.

tammie kept me busy with making a total of 9 picnic tables and a platform to raise her gazebo and we also ordered 12 park benches from scenic express so took a few days to get those.
meanwhile I ballasted about 10 feet of track and its okay but I'm leaning towards getting that ballast king spreader if they are still around.

after that I turned my attention to various types of track signals a hodge podge of nj international and mth cantilever signals both the cantilevers have since died were working fine then the timers I guess gave out so am thinking we honest will get another order for the 2 or 3 head type signals.
it took me 8 hrs each to figure out the relay and cantilever wiring I am not an electronics genius, I then decided to figure out how to use the lift bridge wiring to be able to kill the power in approach tracks from each direction and spent 4 hrs scratching my head only to discover the small wire that runs from metal contact under the bridge to the thumb nut where track power connects to had been fried and was no longer connected so had to pull up some track and uninstall it and replace the wire and used a heavier wire in case wire fried because the original from factory was not even 22 gauge. after that things in that area worked and moved onto the next fun wiring project wiring a relay to a nj international single head target signal and get it to show green when bridge was down and when I used controller to raise it the signal went to red I never knew there could be so many wiring configurations I just got it working today this was a 2 day project most here well versed in this area would have said oh put this here and that there and poof it works!

no matter its all part of the learning curve the one thing I do know is electric follows a circle so to speak positive must return to common to complete the circuit.

Tammie was finally satisfied with the 2 areas she was working on so here are the pictures for you all to see hope you enjoy them as much as we like looking at the real thing up close.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2018)

You and Tammie did an outstanding job! The scenery looks fabulous.


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

Things are looking good EB two thumbs up to you and the wife.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Really nice job. Looks great.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

The scenery looks great. :appl:


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2018)

Just outstanding work. You and Tammie are quite a team.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

thanks to all for the kind words. in viewing photos we posted there were a few of the tunnel we thought we had it blacked out but flash from camera let us know the err of our ways!
we have since fixed that so now the sidewall of tunnel is all blacked out. going to take a break and visit my brother for a week in Florida he is in mid state not affected from hurricane this time.
I think the next area of scenery will be the front side of the park area shown in above photos it has the river and hellgate bridge are waiting until return from trip to see what tammie needs ordered for that as well as ordering some we honest signals for track indication. and the holidays are fast approaching as well. time flies when time clock no longer in ones daily life its as if time has no reality it just goes poof!

p.s. the photo with animals backside and tail that is a lion tammie came across so used the backside of it heading into a hole in rock after some tasty food.


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## Booly15 (Aug 16, 2017)

Excellent work!


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Looks fantastic. 

Pat

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's some great modeling there, nice work. Clearly, some artistic talent in your family.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

since return from trip to Florida we haven't done anything much on layout catching up with house chores and yardwork.
until today we found a goat tammie seen at local hobby shop and I needed some solderless spade connectors so I could wire up the tortoise switch machine that will be used to access the turntable/roundhouse area. wiring is not my talent is always time consuming as I get lost with all the wires but it is functioning as well as a temp dwarf signal so I will know if switch is lined correctly.

I also took time to rework the relay and signal wiring for lift bridge as most wires were wire nutted together and I knew they should connect to the relay itself so another issue dealt with.

doubt much will happen until after January 1st as the holidays are family and visiting others and run trains as well!

I asked in another post so far no one replied so will ask same question here as to approach signals for lift bridge I do not have 2 of the single mast target lights so was wondering if instead I could use the small dwarf lights I have a red/green only or would this normally use the taller single target type signals?

here is a picture of rocky the goat


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2018)

I like Rocky the Goat up there.

I don't know about the dwarf signals. I don't know if they were/are used on mainlines or just in yards.

Where were you in Florida?


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe we were in Lake Wales,Fl for a week.
as to rocky the goat it really reminds me of the Goat Logo great northern used in its commercials hence the reason I nicknamed it rocky.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2018)

Like the goat. In our case, it is polar bears.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well time to get off my lazy backside and get going again just received the signals I needed so can start installing them they will be for show not as a prototypical signal system. I need to order the ballast king yet so I can ballast the track as needed. I also need to order some more building fronts and get them cut and assembled together for a backdrop behind where passenger depot is and finish that area as well . that will complete that area where the hellgate bridge is located on that side of layout then we can move onto the next area of choice.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well I am using the 2 mth signals I had on hand a double searchlight signal think its called a one over one and a Pennsy/B&O style signal bridge. I know both are different styles but I hated to not use them seeing I already bought them years ago they deserve a nice home and be used too!

thanks to gunrunnerjohn and his mini signal board controller the first one was labor intensive as not totally into electronic wiring but once I figured the 2 terminals that had 2 to 3 wires attached to them it was easier today doing the Pennsy style signals that came with 2 signal heads and so used 2 of the signal controller boards for each one and soon discovered I could daisy chain the power connections to those 2 boards and only hickup was I used the wrong 3 wires for the one outside track signal head but once I used the correct wires the board itself was wired correctly otherwise and gave me a 3 light glow.

I am so used to searchlight signals and 1 bulb that either was red or green to see that these signal heads have 3 lights and all are yellow was surprising and no I am not a native to Pennsylvania so they are truly foreign to me!

I need to find online as to what the 3 signal positions mean as they are lit up when a freight car hits the isolated rail. 
all in all a fun day and these solid state boards are so nice and quiet no more ac relays constantly chattering while freight cars wheels moving along the track.
tomorrow I will do a few of the newer signals purchased from we honest on the lower level track then I need to start on the building fronts while waiting on the ballast car to arrive so I can finish the ballasting of upper level tracks I tried using a brush but alas an artist I am not.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well well how time flies while doing nothing! I have 8 building fronts on order so far not shipped and today I just ordered the ballast king and rail protectors so hopefully in a few weeks I can get my part of layout items started so the artist wife can start her magic as well. we still have the main depot area and the railfan park we created to complete which is to the right side of the hellgate bridge.
I do have the area where roundhouse and turntable reside cleared of all but a few engines so was able to create the tracks coming from mainline switch to it but have not committed to anything permanent yet but so far tracks to the diesel shed are mocked up and track to the turntable and the coaling tower are mocked up. the coaling tower has a side building for a simulated place a coal car would drop its load to be hauled up to the coaling tower but the space I have is not long enough to get the track to it as where a switch would need to be is to close to a curved track above so as no way to scenic it as its ties lie right inside the curved area so think I will repurpose that shed for?

the last photo shows how close the switch if I inserted one next to the track board above the switch points would be under it rather hard to work much less scenic it so best to just leave it without that track to side shed plus it opens that area up for a roadway or other scenic options.
another issue and maybe someone here has an old bowser turntable the bridge when rotated the tracks on one side are higher and the opposite is lower yet when bridge is in first setting they all are even and line up nicely am assuming a warped or ? plywood base where ho track is spiked for bridge to turn on? any ideas on how to cure this much appreciated. if I could I would purchase one from mill house but I hate to toss this one faults n all as otherwise it does function well as I did replace the drive with a ross drive and belt assembly so that part is fine. in thinking could that main metal rod that attaches to the underside of bridge be bent causing the issues with track height when bridge is turned 180 degrees?


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2019)

Sure looks like good progress, EB. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well gang I actually worked on layout today the area where tracks going over the lower level leading to the turntable I needed to rework where I had attached an L brace to support the upper level tracks as well as the support for the lift up board so it was not protruding way out in space and will allow a nice flat wall so track running close to that area below has more room and easier to scenic not a big workout but needed done its the small things that takes time or so it seems. 
a few posts above look at first photo you can make out that L brace its the one that is at an angle heading down away from top of plywood holding upper level track I eliminated the longer piece of wood so now only a 1"x4" is protruding away from the area that holds the wooden slat that drop down rests on.
waiting on some store fronts coming in mail that will keep me busy for quite sometime as its approximately 2-1/2 feet long and 2 feet high I already have the wooden frame together.
need some input from those that might have done this the ameri-town building fronts can the tops and sides be cut on a table saw if so would a fine tooth saw blade be best and or should I reverse the blade so teeth are cutting away from the feed end?


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

today I worked on the turntable and service area in preparation for the millhouse turntable that will be coming in march I had to remove some of the L-brace and that worked out well only needed to remove 30" of it and left enough so if needed I can re-add that area back a foot lower to enable turntable to slide into that area both prior and after cut areas have a leg and a cross member so structuraly it is still solid.

I moved roundhouse back about 7" from doorways and reworked the 2 stalls on each side of middle stall so they have less of a curve in them and are centered in doorway and rear stall area now. I then moved onto cutting the tracks leading to the diesel engine house and for the 2 tracks to the coaling tower I have all but the outer track to coaling tower screwed down. next up I need to drill holes and solder power wires to the various tracks before and after track switches. also need to order some caboose industries throws as all switches are easily reached no stretching over a long distance.

I will have to remove another 1/2" for millhouse pit wall to fit in existing hole where the bowser table is now it is only 24" wide millhouse requires 24 1/2" round hole shouldn't be hard I just have to measure 4 spots at 1/2" and use turntable to align them and trace the circle. I have left wider areas open in service area for buildings and other items I might want to add.
I'm learning from attempts years ago to less spaghetti tracks and more open spaces Just wish room width was another 6 feet wider for more room for a town but as dirty harry said one must realize ones limitations and live with it!

here are 3 photos of area as it looks now uncluttered except for a pan of paints.

I need to add a center support for upper tracks going over the tracks leading to engine service area turntable and roundhouse as its a tad low and to long for not having support.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

EB, I realize that you're emphasizing construction, but I am impressed by the sharp-looking locomotives you have.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2019)

Keep the photos coming, EB.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Looks good.


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## JohnJr (Dec 2, 2015)

Great postings EB, thanks much! Your layout is looking fabulous. The backdrops make such a HUGE difference, you and your wife make a great team!!

Question about your lift-up. I’m thinking about doing the same thing on my layout. Any problems, suggestions and/or opinions concerning your lift-up?

Thanks again and keep those pictures coming!

JohnJr


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

JohnJr said:


> Great postings EB, thanks much! Your layout is looking fabulous. The backdrops make such a HUGE difference, you and your wife make a great team!!
> 
> Question about your lift-up. I’m thinking about doing the same thing on my layout. Any problems, suggestions and/or opinions concerning your lift-up?
> 
> ...


this is my advice once you have the hinged area setup opposite end get wood brace setup where the lift will rest on once all is level with track table at that far end use some short screws to hold it in place then drill 2 holes for a wood dowel and glue it in place and then lay track crossing both ends then screw it down then angle cut track so it won't bind on itself once you have track screwed down then remove those short screws and it should align up perfectly.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well today was wiring day oh boy spent all day lengthen wire runs hooking up to bpc's numbering them at both ends now I can trace them as needed. I have 3 more sets of wires that need to be lengthened tomorrow then I can start to wire up the tracks to diesel engine house the 3 roundhouse stalls and the other track for second coaling track. 

I am mentally whipped! the ogr store fronts showed up mid morning today and ballast car is due tomorrow. 

I did get the lead in tracks wired and functional before and after 3 of the switches leading into coaling tower and diesel shed and I cheated I removed wires from a tpc and wired them direct to tiu output so that mainline and the lead in tracks are all powered using mainline power so only power change will be tracks for diesel engine house the 3 stalls for roundhouse so all engines can sit unpowered.

ironically no star wiring for dcs and the mainline is happy well track signal wise will see how the service area does once all is wired and I can actually test it all.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

best intentions derailed by tammie I was going to work on the engine service area well I did I installed a caboose industries switch throw that was it!

after that I was brought over to the hellgate/park area and asked to put in a trolley line from passenger station up and over the waterway and close to park area. then I had to find the trolley car aha there it is and alas way back when lionel put a traction tire on one side and that was toast and no replacements for it found in its box so I had to use a mth fp-59 traction tire and tape it together so I could trim it to a narrower width but its a tad big so comes off wheel easily so I took some model glue and the tire is drying now.

then across from it the lower level track she wanted the track moved further back under the table that holds the industrial switch tracks above them I have included photos of the changes/addition.
maybe tomorrow I can work on the engine service area.

the first 4 photos are of the trolley line and a diner car to be put?

the last 2 photos are of the tracks where they used to be and where they are now.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

The layout is shaping up very nicely. :thumbsup:


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

a new area is being started while tammie waits for me to finish the building where the large backdrop is then she will work her scenic talent in that and the passenger depot area and it will be completed for the time being as one always finds little things to add to a scene!

the 2 photos included show a new technique we viewed on you tube using foam/wood blocks whatever you want to use for the terrain buildup and quilt batting material.
I made the wall/portal using a piece of 2 inch foam panel to fit in and around the upper girder bridge sides as well as the wooden surrounding areas after that tammie took to her art table and after gluing the wood items where she wanted and glued and molded the batting let dry over night and then painted the batting a brown color and let dry overnight. yesterday she spent time with it on her easel painting it the offset colors she wanted and said she prefers this method much more than plaster cloth and plaster itself is less messy with minimal cleanup. right now tammie is cutting cardboard to use where open area behind tunnel portal is so it will block out light showing behind it.

I also installed a computer power source and wired in to power dc leds for passenger station and its union depot and for the trackside signals. I have 3-5 and 12 volt taps for use as well as the Z-4000 I used the AC 10 volt accessory power for gunrunner johns track signal boards that work very well and are so much more quiet than the AC relays I was using no more contact chatter and an easy wiring setup mostly for electronic dummies like me I like adding wires and it works type of application.

we also have a 60 inch flat screen tv installed on rear wall of train room but need to raise it another 4 inches to provide maximum clearance for trains below! I had an idea so searched on you tube for waterfalls and so on learned how to use google chrome and save them where allowed to by those online videos setup a small I mean were talking less then 22 inch screen and showed tammie what my thought was well with the mental thought of bigger is better thus the 60 inch flat screen that was cheap as we had it in our bedroom for 3 years used it twice so bought a wall mount and if I had it to do again would have opted for the expandable pull out model to aid in making vertical adjustments but will crank those vertical tightening knobs good n hard this time so tv stays where we want it. this is a still work in progress but have it hooked up to both tv antenna as well as an old computer that can save various videos of water features and once we progress to that area an update and a video will be added to this thread at that time. the photos appear a tad fuzzy and or maybe the flash needs disabled? well I removed those 2 and took 4 new photos with and with out flash so a better idea of how it looks.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2019)

Enjoy seeing your progress photos, EB.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

thanks ptc


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

The TV is an interesting addition. I want to see photos when you have it done. Nice idea.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

no pics today but turntable and track is wired and functional. and had labeled all tracks for roundhouse area as # 7 oops supposed to be # 9 but alas turn track # 9 off at bpc still powered up what da hey?
tracked down the main power wire for it and the lower oval of track and discovered the wires at bpc for #9 not the correct ones so have it all straightened out ran a train on lower level track all is well and all roundhouse tracks work as they should need to verify the lionel/dcs signal and one wire is functioning correctly for the storage tracks for diesel and roundhouse.

had to move the tv mount up another 2 inches for more clearance from tv bottom to top of track rail head now have 9 1/4 inches so should have enough to do scenery around and under the tv's bottom area.
no other progress doing some other spring time chores as well.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

I'm posting a video of my idea for a backdrop a live backdrop video of a mountain scene along with a running river/stream bed. tammie painted the pink foam today a blue sky color for now were no ways finished with this yet but need to finish painting the large building and get windows blackened out and then lights installed then we will be finished with that 12 foot scenic backdrop area. will move onto a bridge stream area as well as the next 19 foot long run and then can work on this area in video.
I just discovered a 360 view feature within this video and it allows me to spin this scene anywhere I want to. I am also looking for waterfall scenes but so far not one stays steady for an hour or more like this one does.

PTC/brian I thought of your northern lights backdrop I wonder if anyone has caught that on an extended view video on you tube?
I have this all connected from an old pc connected to the tv rs 232 connection and the tv's pc sound connection on tv.

the 1 inch x 4 foot x 8 foot pink foam is what I used from home depot then carefully measured and cut the tv screens face out of the foam and then cut 4 strips of 1 inch thick foam into 4 foot x 1/2 inch thick pieces that I used to cover the black bezel of the tv screen and it also serves as a way for the foam to hang onto the top and sides and bottom of tv for support. then I cut 4 24 inch long x 1 1/2 long x 1/2 inch thick foam pieces to act as a clamp that another foam piece fits into it and works well is snug enough to hold it in place yet it can be removed easily in case the tv or? goes poof! the foam is rigid enough yet light enough to allow this. we intend so far anyways to create a flat foam area at or below the tv screen area and can create a tunnel for trains to travel underneath this area.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2019)

EB, I think that this is a terrific idea. I thought about something similar for a Northern Lights affect, but the required space was too big for even a large TV screen. 

It will certainly give your layout a touch of realism and with your very talented wife blending the wall into the screen image that should be unique and a real plus. 

Go for it!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2019)

That is a very creative idea, EB. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC thank you for compliment and If there was an affordable 16 foot tv screen I'd hang it on wall opposite the hellgate backdrop area and most likely use a photo of city buildings or industrial areas. I wondered if you had thought of the northern lights on a tv screen now I know you did.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe Thanks for the positive reply. I wish some of my other ideas panned out like this one did most were duds! there is a waterfall video on youtube of a Yellowstone park waterfall the color changes in it are awesome unfortunately they kept moving the video camera I wonder if it has a way to capture just the one scene and have it keep repeating. I copied a link to it here if I did it right that is!

https://youtu.be/y8MZ7V9lAdo?t=493


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2019)

I sure encourage you to complete this project. It is very innovative and will set your layout apart. You have a significant advantage with your wife who does an excellent job with her painting skills. 

We are blessed to have such a talented array of MTF members. I have often stated that some of the most talented folks in our O-Gauge hobby are MTF members. This project is proof positive. 

Good for you EB and Tammie.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2019)

I love the waterfall and hope there is a way for you to loop it to play continuously from one camera position. That would be spectacular on a layout. I wish I could offer suggestions on how to do it but such skills are way out of my league.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

empire builder said:


> Country Joe Thanks for the positive reply. I wish some of my other ideas panned out like this one did most were duds! there is a waterfall video on youtube of a Yellowstone park waterfall the color changes in it are awesome unfortunately they kept moving the video camera I wonder if it has a way to capture just the one scene and have it keep repeating. I copied a link to it here if I did it right that is!


Set up a camera and adjust the frame to the size of the YouTube video. Record the portion that you need before they move the camera in the video.

Upload the portion you recorded to YouTube and put it in continuous play mode.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

MichaelE thanks for the how to unfortunately all I have is my cell phone but I can try it anyways. the digital camera I have has a video feature but the videos turn out really grainy/noise looks like an old black n white movie that has degraded badly.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I sure encourage you to complete this project. It is very innovative and will set your layout apart. You have a significant advantage with your wife who does an excellent job with her painting skills.
> 
> We are blessed to have such a talented array of MTF members. I have often stated that some of the most talented folks in our O-Gauge hobby are MTF members. This project is proof positive.
> 
> Good for you EB and Tammie.


I feel honored that we are included in the talented folks arena and we both thank you for it. I found the northern lights videos on youtube some are very plain but one had all the colors and the motions it was awesome to watch and if one could use a current sized flat tv it would make a very nice live visual backdrop feature. I think your Elizabeth/artist did a great job on the rework of your northern light display it captures the feel of it very well done.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Country Joe said:


> I love the waterfall and hope there is a way for you to loop it to play continuously from one camera position. That would be spectacular on a layout. I wish I could offer suggestions on how to do it but such skills are way out of my league.


I did find a loop feature not sure if it was that one and will try it on my pc and see how it goes.
with google chrome browser on the old pc once logged into youtube and a developers option in chrome enabled It allows me to download videos from youtube as long as the person that posted that video on youtube allows it. the video I posted is actually 10 hrs long I found it in a 4hr version as well.
its really not hard to do as my son toild me long ago dad push a button see what it does if you break it I will fix it and that's how I learn to do these things push a button and what bag of rocks did that open?
and if I remember correctly on youtube do a search for how to save videos on youtube it takes you step by step on what you need and how to do it.
I am by no means a pc expert others on this board could run circles around me.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

empire builder said:


> MichaelE thanks for the how to unfortunately all I have is my cell phone but I can try it anyways. the digital camera I have has a video feature but the videos turn out really grainy/noise looks like an old black n white movie that has degraded badly.


A cell phone with a good camera should work just fine as long as you hold it still or has image stabilization. Prop it up against something if you have to.

Try more light in the room as long as there is no glare on the monitor.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well tammie finished painting the trim as she wanted on that large building I made and Sunday morning I sprayed it with a flat clear coat to seal it.

this morning I cut and glued all the clear plastic sheets for windows in place I have it standing up with the back cover off so it can dry.
next is to add 4 led strip lights will try 3 leds to each set and see how it looks and go from there. tammie not sure if she wants all windows lit or some blocked out.

getting this completed will finish the wall off where we hung that 12 foot backdrop then we can start on opposite wall area across from it and its 19 feet long. I need to ballast a 4-6 foot section of track that leads to a tunnel. which when the entire area is completed will lead us to the tv backdrop area I showed in a video last week.

we want to complete each area we start before getting really involved in the next area that way we have a sense of accomplishment even though one will always find something to add to each scene.

we are enjoying a fall like day cloudy breezy and some rain drops but the high desert heat will soon return for those of you in cold winter areas this is your turn to be outside and our turn to be indoors in cool ac homes enjoy as fall will return for you but then not a bad thing as most can work on train layout or just run trains.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2019)

Absolutely beautiful work by Tammie and you. I have so enjoyed watching your progress.

Please tell Tammie we think she is a pro.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

at last the large for me anyways building is in place we added the 3 rooftop miller engineering signs I used the billboard supports and the larger plugs do show will hide with? 
Tammie also found some flat sheet stock with print designs she was happy with for the windows. all that is left to do is the ground cover up to the front and sides of the building on table top I had to add a sidewalk and slide it under front of building to get it to sit flush against the backdrop am guessing the block wall to house and layout top are not square to each other but this fixed that issue.

the last photo is the front left corner across from the 12 foot backdrop side of layout and all I did today was ballast the track and get it glued down so tomorrow it should be a workable area.
I think the hellgate bridge backdrop area is done for now we have the railfan park area above and to the rear of the small union depot finished we made a small set of stairs from the mainline tracks in case the train crew needs to use restrooms at the railfan park.
the second tip for my ca glue broke off so have a hole almost 1/8 inch wide now wish they could somehow make a metal outer tip with a plastic lined inner part to stop them from breaking apart.
to those that use the plastic tipped ca glues do you have any suggestions for me to aid in stopping this issue?
enjoy the photos


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## Guest (May 7, 2019)

Always fun to get caught up on your latest improvements. Thanks for the photos. You and Tammie are doing a phenomenal job.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

thanks PTC and I found the setting to disable the flash and still have the use of crisp clear photos so here are 2 new ones of the building and of the railfan park we made behind passenger depot building. 
apparently tammie still needs to add the ground cover to railfan area.


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## Guest (May 7, 2019)

Great job, EB.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Very nice work. That must have taken hours and hours.


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## Guest (May 7, 2019)

EB, you and Tammie did a fabulous job.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Lots of people working late in those buildings


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Great looking buildings. :appl:


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

thanks ptc at times I felt I bit off more than I could chew!

MichaelE yes many an hour sanding filing and finally cheating using white caulk to mask the seams.

Country Joe we both thank you for the compliment.

Spence thanks it was a lot of work and this was my first ever assembling 18 individual building fronts and sides some lessons learned along the way too.


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## Guest (May 9, 2019)

*"at times I felt I bit off more than I could chew!"*

You and Tammie are certainly up to the task at hand.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

good day all we have the 12 foot backdrop wall completed and have included photos of the area in front of the bridge from left to right towards the passenger depot.

from rear of passenger depot up to the rail fan park/train crew change out only needs me to build some small seats for the small train for the children to ride on.

from there we are starting on the front area of a 19 foot long wall it has an upper and lower level across from where the hell gate bridge/backdrop is.
this will be a farming area and apple tree orchard on the front corner and under the mainline above it and from both lower and upper is a big??

to the right of farming area with a mock-up of small mountain's behind it with a tree/waterfall in front of that this area is to be a Christmas/winter theme or as we all know a work in progress!

so far temps here in southwest desert not to bad and the monsoon high dew points so far defy man made start and stop dates when will man ever learn mother nature dictates these things not what humans think it should be!


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2019)

Looking exceptionally good, EB. I bet you and Tammie are pleased with the progress.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

thanks PTC we are pleased and I have to say after 19 years of looking at no scenery on a layout it is just awesome to see what has been created this is all Tammie's doing like I said many times I cannot even make a stick drawing of a human look real!


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2019)

It's all about picking the right lady, EB. That's where the tires meet the pavement (so to speak). You are indeed a lucky man.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2019)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> It's all about picking the right lady, EB. That's where the tires meet the pavement (so to speak). You are indeed a lucky man.


AMEN!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Really nice, I'll have to have you consult on my build.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

John you better ask Tammie on the scenery part of it!! I seen a post of yours you created a small sign or? thought it was innovative on your part. sometimes you can look at something and an idea pops into your head and create a way to incorporate it into a train layout. and if after you lay tracks down and an idea crosses your mind follow its how a lot of my layout has happened.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Brian the smartest thing I ever did was marry tammie a great wife and a very good friend that also has the artistic talent. you as well are blessed having Elizabeth she too is very artistic minded you both compliment each others talents.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'll be getting help from my friends on the artistic side of things, that's not even close to my strength. I can make them run, but to make them pretty is a whole other matter.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

just close your eyes and vision it all and so far nary a foam piece or plaster has been assembled.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2019)

*"you as well are blessed having Elizabeth"*

In so many ways, EB. Elizabeth is a retired nurse and recently picked up a health issue that I would have missed. Her quick action was a real blessing. What a terrific lady to be by my side.


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## papa3rail (Oct 8, 2016)

The layout is looking great EB nice work.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

well tammie is now working on her extended table off the front left corner its starting to take shape but the southwest deserts are both heating up and dew points are rising so trying to get the gluing/paint spraying and latex painting done as once we switch from the cooler to AC the fumes would have us both on a magical planet!


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2019)

Ahh, the desert in the summer. I was in and out of Phoenix a lot and the summer, 115-117, but it is dry heat.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2019)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Ahh, the desert in the summer. I was in and out of Phoenix a lot and the summer, 115-117, but it is dry heat.


Dry heat, more like an oven than a sauna. Oven or sauna is way better than a deep freezer IMHO.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

PTC it used to be a dry heat but with Phoenix expanding outward 30 miles and all the concrete and swimming pools now we get more humidity and mosquitos!
the new folks past 5 years or so think 105 is high heat and requires a high heat alert we old timers just laugh.

and now a bad dust storm is called a habu [sp] but ironically metro phoenix if a dust storm does come through so many homes tall buildings the dust is actually slowly floating by nothing like the days of the 1960's where you could set your watch and between 5-6 pm you had a dust storm and then a thunderstorm and again from 3-5 am another thunderstorm those were the days. I wonder what the newcomers would think be awakened in early morning to water running into front door and out the back? ask me how I know this!


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

been awhile but tammie has finished her winter/Christmas area.

the first photo is the 1 inch pink foam board I cut to create a view block of underneath the layouts tables. you will see a tunnel cutout this is an abandoned right of way that was donated for a train to cat trails!
the next photo is the farming area and beginning of the winter scene. the next photo is more of the first photo area and the next photo is of a waterfall/tree/mountain plaque that tammie transformed to her liking for this scene.
the next photo is to the right of tall waterfall a small mountian scene and the next photo starts the side area tammie decided to extend the scene into a u shape and the last photo is the end of the side table no way to get an entire photo as area is to small where viewing I will see if I can get a photo from inside the layout to get a bigger area in one photo I don't have a lens that I think would have allowed a full shot of the area so these last 2 are the best I can do.
were starting on the water scene with the lionel lift bridge I have to foam for water channel built up just need to see where the water way will actually be. that's all for now


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

*Great job Tammie!!!!!!* Your layout EB is like an old friend, you NEVER get tired of seeing more. You will be very happy that part of your layout has a winter scene. What fun.

Keep up the good work Tammie and EB.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

thanks ptc tammie works on things then takes a day or so to look at it and then usually changes something! as you know artists are a fickle breed if they don't like it poof it gets changed but the results are terrific.

I have tried to edit last photo so it stands upright but no matter what way I change it to it is not going to show as taken with camera in narrow shot I think its called portrait this is the only web site that for some reason does not understand to show it as taken.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

*"I have tried to edit last photo so it stands upright"*

Hopefully one of our members will come to the rescue, EB. In any event, love your layout progress photos.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2019)

EB, you and Tammie are doing a great job on the layout.


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