# My latest lot of stuff



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Some pics of my latest lot of junk that I overpaid for! I took a shot on the nj central fm. I didn't have good pics but decided to take the gamble any way. I got burned. Such is life, on the bright side all the engines seem to power up and there e units cycle. Bad news is I will need some help getting the FM switcher back on the rails! The 671 looks to be in nice shape. The 2026 is missing the front end. I'll start cleaning the eeasiest stuff first. Pics to follow.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Some quick pics


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

"Your sure going to end up with a nice group of stuff when you finished cleaning. The 671 is one of my favorite engines. I am going to be real interested in how you deal with that battery compartment!
Randy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice lot, and there's a lot of work there to keep you busy as well!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

First thing to do is get that battery out, then wash rub brush with an old toothbrush or some thing to get all the corrosion off. Use baking soda.
That is an old battery I think, from way back when.
What a shame!


From what I see the body doesn't look too bad?
The frame should clean up.

Do you think it will run? Did you put power to it real quick?

I will go back and look but then got to hit the sack.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Does the whole battery compartment drop down with the four screws?
Maybe they have reproductions for sale?
See the four screws?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I hate going back and forth clicking to see pictures, I will load them here for me to look at in the future.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The motors look good and the e-unit looks good.
I can't really see the wheels.
What a shame some dope left the battery in for 50 years! :thumbsdown:

I will give you $50 bucks for it?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I think the Eveready cat on that battery has spent all of its nine lives!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> I think the Eveready cat on that battery has spent all of its nine lives!


It's also spent a few of the locomotive's lives!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, both motors run and the e unit cycles. I started to remove the battery. Needless to say it did not come out in one peice. The bottom is riveted and I will try to save it for now! (as a back up I will look for a replacement. I took off the back truck and the wheels look good the grease is done in. I will break down the rest tommorow. Right now I have the battery compartment soaking in wd-40. Tomorrow I will hopefully get the rest off with the dremeal. I need some evaporust for the frame where the battery leaked, then I will try a neutralizing agent??? Never seen a battery like this.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Pictures are here!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Evapo-Rust requires you to submerge the item for a few hours. I'd strip the chassis, then knock the loose rust off, clean it with some solvent to get grease, etc. off, and dunk it in the Evapo-Rust. I suspect you'll want to shoot a couple coats of paint on it after derusting.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Exactly, I hope!
Forgot to mention the 671 runs like a champ!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

That was a carbon zinc battery. They were very common before the alkaline batteries came out. You see the carbon rod lying next to the loco. The outside case of the battery was zinc, and it was consumed as the battery discharged. The Eveready batteries had a steel case on the outside which was supposed to contain the corrosion and protect your flashlight or whatever. You can see how well that idea worked out.

Since the battery holder is riveted to the frame, and you probably don't want to put it in Evapo-Rust because it is die cast zinc and may dissolve in the Evapo-Rust, you could either drill out the rivets or figure out some other way to get rid of the rust and corrosion.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, Evapo-Rust doesn't attack diecast parts, I've submerged many diecast trucks in it. It's not an acid, it really chemically combines with the rust to remove it. Great stuff, and very benign to anything that's not rust.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

There is a lot of good stuff here. The Jersey Central FM is one of the rarer more valuable PW collectibles. Yours has some battery damage but you can repair this. It's the JC shell that is valuable and yours looks to be in great shape. I would use original instead of repro parts if at all possible. The frame can be swapped out with another FM. Look for a junker FM on eBay with a good frame and take parts from that. The JC is one of those valuable pieces you would not want to compromise by having anything unoriginal on it.

How much did you pay to think you paid too much?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, I broke down the frame and cleaned up the trucks. I removed most of the battery compartment damage with a grinding wheel ( hope the evaporust dies the rest). The 671 got a servoguy special, quick oil job and wheels cleaned. It might need some new springs front and back but for the most part it runs smoothly. It is in pretty nice shape no dings or scratches. 
Areizman, I thought of that also but am determined to give it a go as is. But I think a new frame is a good back up plan. I will try and clean up the horn relay, e unit when the frame is done. Throw out a number on what you think the lot is worth, and I'll most likely have paid way over that. I also got some track, a gate man, a marx motor. And some other junk. Thanks for everyone's help! Man those batteries can reek some havoc! I'll have to see if I can date the battery just for kicks. I remember buying those batteries at two guys department store, I think they went out of business 30+ years ago!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You need to take the shell off of the 671 to lube it. If it is like a 736, it is only 3 screws. There are motor bearings and a worm gear that need lube and you can't lube them without taking the shell off. Diesels and worm drive steamers need some disassembly to properly lube them. Steamers with spur gear drives can be lubed without disassembly.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I will take the shell off soon to do it properly, but as is it looks clean and turns freely. The brush plate is nice and shiny too. This engine looks like it was garage kept. It needs a bulb, so when I open it up it will get the full service.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

sjm9911 said:


> I'll have to see if I can date the battery just for kicks.


This ebay auction pegs that Eveready Nine Lives Leakproof (hah!) battery around 1952 ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-195...ultDomain_0&hash=item3381245473#ht_699wt_1157

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks tj, I had my fill of 9 lives batteries for awhile. 1952 is old, ed was right that could have been an original battery in there!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

So I guess you don't want my $50 bucks? 

If I find that article about identifying the fakes I will post it.
There are more ways to tell ways to tell.

For others interested.
Read if you want a copy and paste from a PM I sent him.

The insides of a typical Postwar Era FM, showing the motors, lights, E-unit, horn, and horn relay.

All Lionel Trainmasters have two motors, a reverse unit, lights, and Magnetraction (magnetized wheels and axles). They have a stamped metal frame, and the fuel tank, trucks, and truck sideframes are die cast. The bodies are plastic, and on the inside of each end of hte shell are silver reflectors to increase the brightness of the lights.

The two pairs of wheels closest to the center of the engine are flangeless, allowing the locomotive to negotiate O-31 curves. FMs will not operate on O-27 track.

The engines from the Postwar Era (1954-66) have a battery-operated horn. The engines made in 1979-80 had no sounds, while those made between 1981 and 1994 have electronic horns. For those made from 1999 to today, please see the individual listings below for the features included with the engine.

About 99% of all Postwar FMs have cracks around the screw holes on the ends of the bodies. This was due to the frames being a fraction too short, and the problem is exacerbated by the expansion and stressing of the plastic bodies as they age over the decades. This problem was corrected when Lionel reintroduced the Trainmaster in 1979.

Postwar FMs are also susceptible to battery damage caused by the D Cell battery not being removed from the engine prior to storage. If the engine is stored wheels-down, the acid will leak onto and corrode the frame and fuel tank. Extreme battery damage inside the engine can also destroy the e-unit and horn relay, which are positioned next to the battery inside the locomotive. Always check a Postwar FM for battery damage prior to purchase.





Compared to other Lionel diesels of the time, the FM was big. Lionel made the engine scale length, making it look much larger in proportion to the F3 Diesels (real F3s and FMs are about the same size). The 2321 was produced with twin motors, a trademark of the design and one that would never change throughout the FM's production run. It also had a battery-operated horn. The simulated fuel tank under the frame was die cast, giving the engine additional heft. The inner wheels on both trucks were flangeless, allowing the engine to negotiate O-31 curves despite its length.

So successful was this initial design that Lionel did not significantly alter the outward appearance of the Trainmaster for nearly 50 years.



#2341 Jersey Central (1956)




In 1956, for the third year running, Lionel introduced another road name to the FM line, this time decorating the engine for the Jersey Central. It was included in only one set and was a slow seller, and the 2341 was discontinued after only one year. It was made in two production runs, with some engines having a slightly glossier tint than others.

The 2341 was such a poor seller that it is perhaps the rarest of all Postwar-era locomotives. More importantly, it has also been reproduced many times, and quite a few 2321s and later production FMs have been repainted as 2341s. Therefore, it is extremely important to closely examine any 2341 before buying. (See below for the section on 'identifying an original 2341').

Incidentally, 1956 was the only year that all three road names used on Postwar Lionel FMs (Lackawanna, Virginian, and Jersey Central) appeared in the same catalog.

Special Note: Spotting a fake 2341

Over the years many reproduction Jersey Central FMs have been produced. Unfortunately, some have been passed off as originals. When examining a 2341, check the following:

1. Body Screws--the original Lionel screws used to secure the shell to the frame are blackened flathead screws. The the screws are not blackened or are Phillips head, odds are the engine has been tampered with. It may still be authentic with just the screws replaced, but a closer look is warranted.


2. The 'FM' decal--original 2341s are all well over 50 years old. The white in the 'FM' decal on the side will have yellowed. Bright, white FM decals with a lot of flash around them are not original.

3. The frame--original 2341s all have blackened steel frames. If the frame is non-blackened aluminum, it is not original.

4. The lettering--originals are heat-stamped. If you gently run your fingernail across the 2341 numbering on the cab, you can feel the indentation where the heat melted the numbers into the plastic (it is very slight). Most reproductions have the lettering painted on, which leaves it flush with the shell. Also, the 'J' in Jersey Central differs slightly between an original and a reproduction, as it is more deeply stamped. This feature requires a trained eye to catch.
5. The shell mold--there is a very tiny, discernable difference between a Lionel FM shell (left) and one made by Williams Reproductions (right). On the roof, just in front of the cab, there is a small ventilation fan molded on. It is larger on a Lionel engine than on a Williams model. Note that the border around the grate on the Williams model is thicker than that on the Lionel.



6. Lastly, if still in doubt, ask to have the shell removed. Many restorations are stamped on the inside of the shell. Also, take a look to make sure the insides look like those of an original Postwar engine. Yes, that sounds obvious, but some faked 2341s had electronic e-units and can motors, and eager buyers were so focused on the shells that they didn't bother to look under the hood.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The evaporust, along with a grinding stone, wire brush, file, screwdriver, razor knife, and anything else i could think of is doing the job! There is some pitting where the battery ate away at the metal. The evaporust reminds me of a watered down navy jelly, even the smell is similar. It is easier to use. As the fm Trainmaster frame was not painted black, would gun bluing work on the frame and tanks underneath? I did look on e bay for a replacement frame, I got sticker shock! I cleaned up the motors, and am working on the rust on the e unit arm, horn, etc. I will post pic tommorow! Thanks.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You may realize before this is over that you got a reasonable or good deal on your purchase. The FM may be worth much more than you thought it was.

Since the frame is usable, you can put the loco back together and run it while you accumulate those few thousand $$ that you will need to buy a pristine frame.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Gun blue will certainly darken a bare metal frame, but remember that gun blue doesn't prevent more rust down the road. Something to consider.

TJ


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## mcshabs (Jan 22, 2011)

No one ever paid attention to that second statment on the bottom of the battery hatch...

Looks like a fun project. I was just reading an article about some guys hunt for a New Jersey Central FM... you got a rare one.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Servoguy, I got a good deal even if I paid too much. I once bought a gold chain on an island when I was younger. I second guessed if it was real. My mother said can you tell the difference, I replied no. She said no one else will either . I, to this day, have no idea whether it's real or not! I originally bid on this to resell(I never sold a train before, I've just started to buy). It was In the background and I realized what it was and took a shot. Good news is now I get to keep it. I would never splurge on something like this for myself. I still payed no where near what they sell for(. I hope anyway). I set up a Swiss bank account just to buy the frame! It's almost as cheap to buy the whole fm, go figure. When it gets fixed it will run. 
Tj, is there a way to do both, preserve and protect. Maybe bluing and lots of oil or wax. I think Ii just answered my own question. 
Mcshabs, thanks, it's a nice rig. I hope I do it justice.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't buy collectible trains any more. I bought some once on the assumption that their value would increase significantly. It hasn't increased enough to make the purchase a good investment. I was also advised years ago to keep everything original which I now realize is foolishness. When I get a chance, I will take these "investments" out of their boxes and run them. I am an operator, not a collector. I often buy stuff that the dealers can't easily sell because they are too beat up. If it is a steamer or tender, I use a black magic marker to touch up the paint, and it looks OK when it is running. I have touched up my 2353 red paint with an orange magic marker, and it looks OK. The shells are not good enough to warrant a repaint, and when the loco is running, it looks good enough. If I want a pristine 2353, I will buy one and not try to restore the one I have. The one I have is a good runner, so for operating trains it is perfect. I don't have to worry about it getting scratched.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The alkaline batteries were introduced commercially in the 1960s. A patent was issued in 1960. Carbon zinc batteries are still available.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Servoguy, I like to run them too. 
Ok, so I cleaned it up a bit and tried a bit of gun bluing. It looks Ok. Notice that the battery compartment has holes where the battery ate away the metal, the same thing is on the top side of the frame even though it looks like rust after I applied the bluing. I need to order some parts, the top of the battery holder disintegrated in the evaporust. I also need a new battery hatch. I think mine is done! I thought about filling the wholes and painting the frame, I might still do this. I don't know how corrosive the battery damage is, it might still eat away at the frame. I will keep my eye open for a replacement.
The e unit lever was cleaned up to the best of my ability. It's better then before and should work.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SJM,

Tedius work, for sure ... but looking better already, by leaps and bounds! Keep us posted.

TJ


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

No matter what it looks like now, SJM, you scored! For a postwar Lionel diesel freak like me, having a 2341 is having the engine that says "Lionel" in no uncertain terms. Regardez orange and blue! As GRJohn says, you're going to have some work in front of you, but it's all do-able and the usual gang of experts will guide your through the rough waters. Pls. post as you get 'em done. You Joisey guys have access that us west coasters can only gawk at appreciatively - or, go online and pay thru the nose for the hose...


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

BTW, if you're looking for a high-quality, clean replacement frame, batt. compartment, etc., for the 2341, try Jimmy Stio out of Vegas. He has a vast number of high-quality postwar diesel parts such as shells, motors (matched motors for two-motor diesels) frames, trucks, etc., that you seldom see elsewhere. He may be away at the moment but leave a message, if you choose: <http://stores.ebay.ca/jstio> Good sources, good to deal with.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

SJM, I missed p.2 and 3 when I made the above suggestion re: frame replacement, but looking at the pix, it's original if you keep it as is, because pitted and all, it still should work fine (you did a great job on cleaning and dissolving the ugly stuff), or you could still find something like N/O/Stock as original-type upgrading. Incidentally, do you have a #352 Icing Depot to go with your car? I have an original #352, and even at reduced voltage the man with the ice paddle moves at light-year speed. The newer ones come with a small can motor that moves the ice man at a speed you can actually see with the naked eye!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks all, for the kind words( and for the picture thing too). Ishmael, I'm a bit happier that it is cleaning up Ok. I still might get a new frame( thanks for the contact I might need it!). I was extremely happy at the original results but as I look at the frame, it can use improvement. The bluing seems to be streaking where the battery leaked on the frame, this might lead me to fill in the holes and paint it. I can always aquire a new frame in the future, and have the old one fixed up to run on my track now! I don't have an icing station( or room for one) but who knows I can't control what I buy. I looked up that rig and didn't find much online. I would like to see it in action. I want to start a thread( when I learn the video thing) on operating stuff, accessories, cars, etc, so people like me can see the stuff in action and get feedback on best operating practices etc.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

sjm9911 said:


> Thanks ... for the picture thing too).


Your welcome.

When your posting, after you've uploaded your images, click back on the paper clip icon (you'll see a little pull down menu). With that, click on Insert All, and your images will appear directly in the post.

Cheers,

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks tj, but I will have to try it on my phone as I do 99 percent of my posting on it. My wife blames every computer virus on me so now I don't use it. We have the same amount of viruses now, just less grief for me!


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

You asked, and here it is: The modern version of the #352 Icing Depot. It's about 30 seconds in...<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8gxM2B8ZIk>. Maybe the postwar one, like the one I've got has a more vintage look, but the action is hilariously fast - this one's action is nice...


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

That was cool, thanks. I had no idea what it was supposed to do. The action is smooth. I guess you can blame the speed on the greater work effort of the old timers, the new guy is just lazy!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The parts came in today right before dinner and I couldn't wait to put the fm back together. It cleaned up pretty well. I changed out the battery clamp, and needed a new motor mount screw. It works as is. Forward, neutral, reverse, no problem. The horn needs a wire reconnected but when jumped it works. The frame got 4-5 coats of bluing. I tryed to coat it with wax, etc to no avail. It ate away at the bluing. I went with a lite coat of oil. It will attract dust but the oil darkened the frame nicely. I do no know how to tell if the motors are in sync. It seems to run rather well. I will clean up the shell soon. Any advice, clear coat etc, my usual soaking will take off the decals and I don't want to do that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That looks great, hard to imagine it's the same locomotive as we saw earlier! :thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

What a fabulous improvement! Excellent work.

(Now just don't leave that battery in for another 60 years!)

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Looking good, :thumbsup: Did you lube the gears? 
In the one picture I see, the gear looks dry.

Before you do the shell, post a couple of more pictures of the shell, you only have the one, do both sides and the front and back. Get one of the inside too. Please.

I think I have seen the FM decals for sale somewhere.
It would be nice if you could repaint it.
The walkway under the handrails, are they all metal?


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

beautiful job on the resto:thumbsup:

What is this rust stuff you guys were talking about?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

imatt88 said:


> beautiful job on the resto:thumbsup:
> 
> What is this rust stuff you guys were talking about?



http://www.evaporust.com/evaporust.html?gclid=CILGh56t2bYCFUPc4AodQD8AQg

Sold in local stores.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks, 
Tj, I thought about that more then once! 
Ed it was lubed, I might have wiped the excess off, maybe too much. 
Here are the pictures of the shell, is it real or fake? I think based on the age of the battery and stuff that was in the lot it has the age to be real. It has the cracks on both screw holes. The lettering, however slight feels to be heat stamped. The blue color looks about right. The frame was the right type with the right battery cover. What do you think? The inside discoloration is a combination of paint overspray( by the vents), rust, and battery insides(that stuff went everywhere in is hard to remove). I was working on that inside spot for a long time I still haven't cleaned it all off.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Hmmm, If there is a TCA meet held in your area it might be worth your while to stop by and ask them to take a look at it. 

Given the potential value an experts opinion might be worthwile. I have some concerns from these photos. The masking between the blue and orange does not look factory and the lettering looks off.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I thought the lines don't look crisp, but who knows. As I am not selling it, I will just belive it to be real(even if it's fake). Good thought on getting it checked out though, I'll look into it!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I seem to go with an original 2341 too.
The lines are not supposed to be crisp, that is how most were painted.
They all had paint defects, that is one way to tell a fake.
The cracks are another, they all had the cracks as the frame was a different size.
Also the J will/might be heat stamped into the plastic a little more then the rest of the letters.
Plus they painted the orange over a blue plastic shell.
The lettering looks good to me?

Copy and paste,
 Both were built in 1956 using an unpainted blue plastic body with orange bands painted on the upper and lower sides and ends of the body
The blue plastic is a special color never used for any other FMs (Blue Virginians have a darker blue plastic) 
All lettering is heat stamped

BEWARE of fakes! Because of the desirability and value, this engine is one of the most counterfeited of all postwar engines.
The fakes are on darker blue bodies and the lettering of fakes is silk screened i instead of the proper heat stamping. Fakes have also been found on grey molded bodies, generally painted over Lackawannas.
The glossy version is so rare and more expensive that some sellers have taken a rare matte finish 2341 and waxed it to a high-gloss in order to misrepresent it as the high-gloss version. Some have also been lacquered with clear lacquer to make the finish high-gloss, but you can spot these because there will be a line where the lacquer ends and the high-gloss misses some orange paint droplets.
This loco features dual motors, Magne-traction, operating horn and headlights, 3 position e-unit, Metal railings, Die Cast battery box, and 6-wheel trucks. Four of the wheels on each truck geared and powered, and the two inner wheels are non powered and without flanges to enable negotiation of 31 inch, O gauge curves. 
The Fairbanks-Morse FM "Trainmaster" is the most powerful loco that Lionel built during the Postwar era (1945 through 1969)
Lionel used the Jersey Central FM as the lead engine in just one set - the 2270W streamlined passenger set. It was also available for separate sale. 
Because of the painting process used at Lionel, practically every Lionel FM has a paint defect, flaw or ding. The paint masks were made of brass, and it was easy for a worker trying to get lots of engines done per day to work too fast and slip, leaving a ding or two when the body hit the mask.

Please also note that the bodies of all Lionel's FM's were molded longer than the mounting brackets on the frames. This resulted in cracks when the mounting screws were tightened, if they weren't already cracked in the painting jig in which the same dimensional error was made. 
A Lionel 2321, 2331 or 2341 FM without at least one crack is most-assuredly a counterfeit item

The dimensional error was corrected during 1964 when the 2322 Virginian was produced, so most but not all 2322s will not have a crack
The counterfeiters used the 2322s to make fake Jersey Centrals, as well as an even darker unpainted blue shell sold to service stations in 1969. These were not cracked

That is from here, http://www.train-station.com/


Check out the site sjim they are in Mountain Lakes NJ
Somewhere they have a video on spotting the fakes, where about are you in NJ.
Your not too far from them?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks for the info ed, yea I still think iit's the original shell. I compared it to a lot of sites today. One site, I forgot what one, had a little bit different lettering. It was up too high! I think that one was fake from the pictures I looked over, and that was a go to site for me! I will call the train shop you mentioned this week as I will be in the area next week!! I cold not find the video that was mentioned on the site. Hey thanks for the info. Any other comments still welcome, I love learning this stuff! Thanks.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

SJM, the video mentioned to you was done by Don Shaw, the owner of The Train Station in Mountain Lakes. There was an article done on him a couple of issues ago in CTT. Don put out two videos, one on the Trainmasters, and one on F3s. I have them both and would lend you the one on Trainmasters for the postage there and back, but it's a VHS, not a DVD. Don is probably THE expert on Lionel Trainmasters, and I've watched that video a few times. I think your 2341 is the real thing, but really the litmus test is satisfying yourself that your copy is heat stamped. That is the one original factory process that likely no one can duplicate. I do notice your FM decals don't seem to have yellowed, so they could be replacement decals on an original shell, or the photo could make them seem less yellowed. All else looks original. I've seen other shells where the orange paint seemed to turn yellow at points, possibly because of some chemical that attacked the orange paint, or possibly a failed attempt at covering up a scratch, etc. Keep posting. Your mechanical resurrection of this beast is inspirational!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Ishmael, I'm going to go up there the end of the week. I'll pick up the video if they have it. I'll also ask if they will look at it for me, I'll call ahead to see.


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## ironman21 (Mar 5, 2013)

for me it is the hunt and getting various items I find back to working order and looking good, nice find I would have sprung for them!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Iron man, me too, I like working on this stuff(almost more then running them). I like the idea of saving a part of history that others will enjoy when I'm long gone. These things were built to last! 

I talked to the guys up at the train station in mountain lakes nj, and they will look at the Trainmaster for me. I'm going up in the a. m. and will post what I find out. Turns out there are only about 30 minutes away from me. Nice guys! I didn't think there were any hobby shops around me that had trains. Now I have two! Thanks for everyone's help! (I'm embarrassed about the condition of the train and what they will say of my repair job! )


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I thought you might be close to them.

You should have brought some before pictures with you.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, inspired by T-mans recent project, I decided in my down time to try and fix my Crain car. The hoist was broken in both spots where it would be lifted. I did not take before pictures as I was no confident this would work out. I still don't know if it will hold. I used plumbers putty ( epoxy clay) to mold the peice. I hollowed out the center hole with a nail to leave room for the center pin to be installed later( I might use a screw). The putty could be manipulated in order to accept the wire part that went up the boom. I sanded and primed it. It's not pretty but It might just work. Now I need some string and a pulley.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, I learned how to post pictures, how do I make them a bit smaller? Or is the size Ok?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The pic size is about as large as we'd like to see them here. (Otherwise, one has to scroll left/right.)

In the future, you can downsize them locally on your end using almost any photo-editting tool. Look at the pixel size ... target something maybe 1200 or so wide.

Regards,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The pictures are 1280, that's fine. That's usually what I use to post here.

IrfanView is a free and very flexible graphics utility, check it out.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

First off I'd like to thank the guys at the train station, in mountain lakes nj. Very nice people. There inventory is huge, and as a plus one of them is from my hometown! I never seen such inventory outside of a train show, I was in awe. They agreed to look at my fm Trainmaster for me to ascertain if it was authentic. After looking over the engine he said it was in good condition. Which surprised me because of its original condition, I guess my battery overhaul was worth it. And yes the question everyone wants to know the answer too, with out a doubt it is real! He seemed to think I got a good deal on the lot of stuff I bought! He also said the jersey central fm Trainmaster had an extremely small production run, I think he said 10,000. Though I might have misheard because all I could think of was, it's real. It's real! I did buy I few things for the layout while I was there, it was the least I could do. Forgot to add, the train station guys built the sopranos layout! 
Thanks for the picture advice, as I only post on my phone, I wouldn't know how to reformat them.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

From the paint job I thought it was original, now the question is what are you planning to do with the shell?

Did they give you an estimate on it's worth as it sits now?

Did you buy anything while you were there?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed, thanks, I almost sold it to you for 50$ I didn't ask for an estimate as I think I'm going to hold on to it for a bit, I'll never be able to acquire one again( $$$$$). The shell will run on its original frame, on my track. It does run real well and at slow speeds too! After seeing what it was and what it is now, I couldn't get rid of it. I did look around and buy some stuff for my layout, some fence, cool looking branches to break up the ground cover, ice blocks etc. I had to buy something, as they did me a favor looking at the fm. The $$$ is probably in the shell as they weren't to concerned with the frame. It's pretty rare, and for now it's staying in new jersey! Now I just need to know what cars came in the set!  ( I keep saying stop buying stuff! I never listen though!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The Crain car fix actually worked, I was surprised. Thanks T-man rebuilding threads for ideas and inspiration. I thought this one was toast. I sanded it down and repainted the boom. I also glued in some pins to hold the guide wires and center nut that raises the boom in place. It works and looks Ok.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I would have jumped at $50, I was waiting for a counter offer price from you.

I am always open for a deal/steal. 

And, it would have stayed in NJ. 

You done good boy. :thumbsup:


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## mcshabs (Jan 22, 2011)

Where do you get/whats the brand of that plumbers cement that you used to mold the fix to the part? thats a good trick. 

I have used playdoh to make a mold of plastic parts before and then cast from them with jb weld... works surprisingly well. I have another project that needs it, will have to post pics.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Its not exactly plumber's putty. It's formed like putty and is used by plumbers( not for gas line sealant). It's basically a two part hand mixed epoxy, I think the stuff I used was steel reinforced. It can be molded like clay and sanded. I got the idea from reading T-mans threads. Jb weld makes it as do others, you can get it at home Depot or any plumbing store. I thought this is what everyone was using when the said jb weld, I forgot they make a bunch of epoxies. I didn't think it would stick, the whole back end of the Crain boom was broken off. I didn't take beforehand pictures because I didn't think it would work without drilling a whole and pinning it. But I thought drilling would split the thin plastic. It's pretty strong and the Crain will live on! This is what I used,


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The JB Weld that most of us use is a bit more "flexible", but I guess that stuff probably works as well, I've never used it.


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

SJM, thought I would help you spend some more money  . According to the "standard catalog of Lionel Train Sets", The 2341 was offered in only 1 (cataloged) set, in 1956. It was Set #2270w or 808-- Included were: 2341 Jersey Central Train Master, 2531 Silver Dawn Observation, 2532 Silver Range Vista Dome, and 2533 Silver Cloud Pullman.---8 TOC curved and 7 TOS straight track, and 1 UCS remote control track


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Those are the last cars I buy, I swear, wink, wink, ( with fingers crossed behind my back)!
Thanks I will check them out, after I aquire the whole set I'll let big ed make me an offer! I'm not selling for 55$ either!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

rdmtgm said:


> SJM, thought I would help you spend some more money  . According to the "standard catalog of Lionel Train Sets", The 2341 was offered in only 1 (cataloged) set, in 1956. It was Set #2270w or 808-- Included were: 2341 Jersey Central Train Master, 2531 Silver Dawn Observation, 2532 Silver Range Vista Dome, and 2533 Silver Cloud Pullman.---8 TOC curved and 7 TOS straight track, and 1 UCS remote control track


You asked, it took a while but here you go.








































One is real nice, the others are beat up. In pictures they look clean, must be the reflection off the Crome II'll have to remember that when bidding in the future. All in all about 175. More then I wanted to spend. They still need some cleaning, I did a fast scrub with toothpaste. It did take the paint off the Vista dome car but it took off the yellow too. I think I like it better all clear. Most of the tabs for the lights were bent in causing shorts. Why anyone would do that is beyond me. I need a new light holder of too but they run and look great. Especially with the jersey central up front!


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

That really makes a fantastic looking set! I don't think it is near as much fun if you buy something and just set it on the track. Much more rewarding to have to clean and fix a few things. You did a great job with the Jersey Central!:appl: Just let me know if you need any more help spending money.
Randy


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Beauticious! Byootayyyy! So nice to see the 2341 hauling passengers on your layout. How 'bout a short videl of it booting along, blowing the two longs, one short and one long approaching a grade crossing, or just sitting there and blaring away? I was positive from the start you had an original. The paint was perfectly imperfect, as all factory-sprayed bodies were, and the headlight orange was scooped under the headlight, as an original always is; the slight indents of the heat-stamping was true. One thing you've never shared with us, SJM, and I'm hoping at this point you will, is what you payed. Nearly all #2341s I've checked out over the past year or two on eBay or elsewhere, unless they're pathetic doggies, go for a min. of $600 and over, waaaaayyy over. With OBs, inserts and paper, almost all are way over $1000, but looking back at CTT or OGR from the early-late 90s, those prices mentioned above would have been an absolute steal. You did a totally masterful job of resurrecting the JC FM, the #2460 Bucyrus Erie crane, etc. Well done!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Rdmtgm, thanks. It does look good now. 
Ishmael, as always thanks for the kind inspiring words, I will shoot a video soon. I'll look up the price and post it too.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ishmae, it was 640$ shipped. The turbine runes great. The Trainmaster you know about. I forgot about the fruit express and the milk car. I'll have too look for them. The 2026 runs as although I newer fixed the front end. It needs a cow catcher. The gondolas, etc are clean up and running. Some were repurposed to make some of my other projects. The beacon works but at this point is on the sidelines. I did get some other things not pictured, a lighted station etc. Not too bad.


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## Tarheelexpress (Aug 24, 2013)

Very enjoyable post! Thanks, SJM9911


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Hey, thanks for reading and enjoying it!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> Those are the last cars I buy, I swear, wink, wink, ( with fingers crossed behind my back)!
> Thanks I will check them out, after I aquire the whole set I'll let big ed make me an offer! I'm not selling for 55$ either!


A C note? 
And you can keep the passenger cars, that is for the 2341 Jersey Central.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

A c note is a grand right?  and not the candy bar! What's wrong with my passenger cars?!?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> A c note is a grand right?  and not the candy bar! What's wrong with my passenger cars?!?


Nope.....a hundred. OK that is a little low, 2 C notes then?

$1000 bills were last printed in 1945, banks stopped handing them out in 1969.
Anyone know what the letter designation was? The letter for a $500 bill?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't spend it all in one place.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed I haven't a clue. They also made bigger denomination bills if I'm not mistaken. But they were reserved for bankers etc. Made it easier for them to carry money I guess. I haven't been to the mint in 15 years. The 500$ bill sells for a lot more then 500$. I might take a couple of those! Or a few 2 1/2 dollar coins. the shiny gold color gold ones!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, they made them a lot bigger!


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

$100,000.00 bill adjusted for inflation from 1934 to 2014 would be equal to 1.763 million dollar bill. 

Handy little inflation calculator found here. 
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Magic


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think the $100,000 was the largest, it's pretty large.  A few of those would put a smile on my face!


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## pilotony (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks SJM. One of the best series of photos and restorations. The Trainmaster looks terrific.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks, I learned a lot along the way from t man and t j. I tried my best to document what I did as someone might be able to see its doable!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

No credit to historian Ed, sniff, sniff.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed, you don't need credit as most of the stuff I do you push me through it. Its implied.


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## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

In one source many years ago, it was noted that the $ 100,000.00 bill was the largest bill then printed, but it was used only for transactions between federal reserve banks.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Excellent job of restoration. I started re-reading this thread 40 mins. ago and then got lost in the train-station part way through!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks dano, im not that creative but I can fix stuff. The train station website is pretty good, and they were very helpful.


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