# Plastic or metal wheels?



## Mseav (Jul 30, 2015)

What are the pros and cons of plastic and metal wheels?


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Metal wheels roll easier and don't get dirty as fast as plastic wheels. I don't have a single car without metal wheels.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Mseav said:


> What are the pros and cons of plastic and metal wheels?


Plastic wheels seem to make track get dirtier faster -- requiring more frequent cleaning.

Metal wheels cost more, but add some weight to the cars, and the track stays cleaner. Some like the click-clack sound of metal wheels.

But the most important thing about wheels is to make sure that they are in gauge (i.e. spaced exactly the correct distance apart). If you don't have an NMRA gauge, get one. Use it to check the spacing of all of your wheels. I was surprised at how many of my cars were slightly (and sometimes greatly) out of gauge. But I buy a lot of used cars and refurbish them.

Wheels that are out of gauge should be replaced. That will cut down on derailments, and probably decrease rolling resistance, as well.

P.S. the NMRA gauge can also be used to check track widths (and other important measurements).


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I can't think of any pros for plastic wheels. I have done tests with plastic and
metal wheels. Metal wheels roll better. The better a car's wheels roll the more
cars an engine can pull. Plastic wheels pick up more gunk than metal wheels.
A biggie for me is the sound of metal wheels clickity clacking down the track.
You will not get that from plastic wheels.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm in there with the other guys. Metal wheels are the way to go.
They roll so easily you'll need to make sure your layout is level or
they'll take off on their own.

All of that means that your loco can pull more cars if they all
have metal wheels than if they had plastic.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

mopac said:


> I can't think of any pros for plastic wheels. I have done tests with plastic and
> metal wheels. Metal wheels roll better. The better a car's wheels roll the more
> cars an engine can pull. Plastic wheels pick up more gunk than metal wheels.
> A biggie for me is the sound of metal wheels clickity clacking down the track.
> You will not get that from plastic wheels.


They're cheap. That's their only positive trait. In this hobby, there are places to go cheap and places not to. This is a place to invest in quality. Less time spent cleaning track and more time doing the things you want to.


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## Mseav (Jul 30, 2015)

Ok then, I'm now shopping for metal wheels and I'm seeing 28'', 33'' and 36''. How do I know which to buy? Does it matter if I run metal or plastic trucks?


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm ashamed to admit I haven't given the metal v plastic wheel debate much thought. I do have some cars with metal wheels and they roll well, perhaps better than the plastic. The shiny appearance of the metal ones is a downside but I suppose you can paint them. Which are the best make to go for and who offers them?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Most HO freight cars use 33" wheels. Most passenger cars use 36"
as do very large, long freight cars, with a grossweight
above 85,000. You can tell the difference by looking
at them. Before ordering check
the wheels on cars that you have. The larger are wheels are 36", the
rest will be smaller at 33".

I don't know about the 28", I've never seen them used on
any cars that I have.

Other than the better running qualities we have
discussed, there is no other reason to replace plastic with metal.

Don


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## MRLdave (Nov 1, 2011)

No doubt about the rolling quality of metal wheels, but just to throw something out there no one has mentioned is the electrical component of metal wheels. Metal wheels can bridge gaps and create shorts. Nothing is more fun than finding a $50 passenger car sitting derailed on a switch with smoke slowly rising from the truck as it melts into a pile of twisted plastic. I think everyone in our club has done that at least once. They seem to have enough resistance to not create a dead short and trip the breaker, but they heat up and within a minute, they get hot enough to melt the truck, and we had one (the operator should have been watching better) where the truck melted and the plastic actually flowed down into the ties, gluing the car to the track, then the body dropped down onto the wheel and the body melted until the wheel was melted into the seats inside the car.

By the same token, this same property allows you to use the wheelsets for train detection so it isn't really a good or bad thing, just something else to think about. You'll never have a plastic wheel set create a short.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*short circuit detection not working correctly?*

the quarter test should be implemented throughout your layout. This test should be done prior to operation. you need to make sure it works properly. Or else you will run into those
melting problems you mentioned earlier. You may need heavier wire gauge.in your circuit
breaker circuit. Good luck1! tr1


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

DonR said:


> Most passenger cars use 36 wheels".


True, but not all. I have some Rivarossi 1920s era passenger cars. They use 33" wheels. As mentioned above measure and check before ordering.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

tr1 said:


> the quarter test should be implemented throughout your layout. This test should be done prior to operation. you need to make sure it works properly. Or else you will run into those
> melting problems you mentioned earlier. You may need heavier wire gauge.in your circuit
> breaker circuit. Good luck1! tr1


When my metal wheel cars derail, usually because i failed to throw
turnout points, they do cause a short but my Bachmann DCC controller
instantly alerts. The described meltdown must have been on a
large layout with high amp boosters. 

Don


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Proper axcel length?*

Replacing plastic wheels for metal ones 1.)How do you go about getting the proper excel
length? Regard's ,tr1


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## Mseav (Jul 30, 2015)

tr1 said:


> Replacing plastic wheels for metal ones 1.)How do you go about getting the proper excel
> length? Regard's ,tr1


I believe that for HO,all axle lengths will be the same.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

The distance between the WHEELS is be the same for all manufacturers. MOST of the axil lengths are the same -- but not all. Sometimes the axils are slightly longer or shorter, depending on the design of the truck. Standard wheels from KaDee or Intermountain will work on MOST rolling stock. But there are exceptions.

For the exceptions, try Reboxx. They sell wheels with a variety of axil lengths.

http://www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm


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## Mseav (Jul 30, 2015)

tr1 said:


> the quarter test should be implemented throughout your layout. This test should be done prior to operation. you need to make sure it works properly. Or else you will run into those
> melting problems you mentioned earlier. You may need heavier wire gauge.in your circuit
> breaker circuit. Good luck1! tr1


What is the quarter test?


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*shorting detection on the tracks/rails.*



Mseav said:


> What is the quarter test?


 Simply, it's a test for short circuit
detection. Too make sure your circuit breaker can recognize a short circuit any where on your
layout and shut off the power automatically. The quarter is placed on the rails where it joins
the(+) and (-) together which forms a dead short. The circuit breaker detects this and breaks /opens the circuit.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

tr1 said:


> Simply, it's a test for short circuit
> detection. Too make sure your circuit breaker can recognize a short circuit any where on your
> layout and shut off the power automatically. The quarter is placed on the rails where it joins
> the(+) and (-) together which forms a dead short. The circuit breaker detects this and breaks /opens the circuit.


It doesn't have to be a quarter. Any piece of conductive metal that can bridge the tracks will do. i have a large steel washer that I use for that purpose.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

tr1 said:


> Replacing plastic wheels for metal ones 1.)How do you go about getting the proper excel
> length? Regard's ,tr1


I've replace many wheels on my cars. Usually, if there is a difference
in axle length, it will be minor. Simply using a sharp tool such as a narrow
hobby knife you can ream out the axle sockets in the truck
to get a free turning fit. A tool for this is commercially available.

Just be sure to get the right wheels, 33" or 36", else your couplers
will be vertically out of alignment.

Don


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

DonR said:


> I've replace many wheels on my cars. Usually, if there is a difference
> in axle length, it will be minor. Simply using a sharp tool such as a narrow
> hobby knife you can ream out the axle sockets in the truck
> to get a free turning fit. A tool for this is commercially available.


Micromark has the truck tuner tool:

http://www.micromark.com/ho-truck-tuner,8241.html

It may seem expensive for a simple little tool, but it does a great job of making wheels roll smoother, and lower rolling resistance means longer trains! I have used mine a lot.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Truck axcel length?*

So your saying the axel length is a standard in the model ho rolling stock truck market.
And if there is a slight deviation? It will be very minor next to nil.
So, is it recommended to buy in bulk? And just bite the bullet when deviations do occurr?
Anyone.....?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If you have your sizes right, yes, bulk buys will not
likely be a problem. Any variation can be made
right easily as described.

I have only bought a dozen or so at a time to have
on hand to convert any troublesome, or newly arrived
used car from a train show.

Don


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*surface mount, or standard 1/4watt resisters?*

Train detection, that's a good one. How does that work again? Regard's,tr1


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

tr1 said:


> So your saying the axel length is a standard in the model ho rolling stock truck market.
> And if there is a slight deviation? It will be very minor next to nil.
> So, is it recommended to buy in bulk? And just bite the bullet when deviations do occurr?
> Anyone.....?


I buy KaDee wheels in bulk, and have installed them in cars from a variety of manufacturers. The only problem I have had is with some Model Power Old Time passenger cars. Their axels were notably shorter than everybody else's. I could not force a KaDee wheel into their truck. The truck was warped and wheel bound tightly in it, when I tried. No problems with any other cars from Accurail, Athearn, Rivarossi, Roundhouse and Walthers.


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## MRLdave (Nov 1, 2011)

On the previously mentioned shorts, yes, it's a large NTRAK layout (size varies from 70 to 130 feet depending on venue) running DC and Crest remote throttles with 2 amp fuses.........any smaller and 4 locos will blow the fuses with no shorts present. A lot of members have older LL, concor, ect. locos that draw a lot more current that more modern locos. We also note sparks on the wheels when the metal wheels roll thru switch frogs and cross-overs. When we run DCC, the sparking wreaks havoc on our DCC.......as noted, the system immediately senses the "problem" and shuts down, causing all the locos to stop and then restart which is especially annoying with the sound equipped locos. Again, not a condemnation of metal wheels, just something to be aware of. I have a friend with a large outdoor G scale layout that is block controlled, and he prefers plastic wheels.....that's based on his worry that if you stop a train with a wheel on the rail gap, you can create a short between blocks (which might be set to opposite polarities).


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## Mseav (Jul 30, 2015)

Has anyone put a vernier caliper on a 31'', 33'' or 36'' wheel so I can measure what I have? What if you put 33'' wheels on a car with 31'' wheels?


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Mseav said:


> Has anyone put a vernier caliper on a 31'', 33'' or 36'' wheel so I can measure what I have? What if you put 33'' wheels on a car with 31'' wheels?


I you replace the original wheels with different-sized wheels, your couplers might not line up correctly with the other cars in your train.

If you switch to larger wheels, they might rub against parts of the car bottom on curves.

If you switch to smaller wheels, the car will be a little lower and parts of the car might catch on the track, especially at turnouts.

In addition, changing the size of the wheels may make the train look odd or a little less prototypical.

I don't own calipers, but the difference between 33" and 36" wheels is easily visible when placed side by side. I have not heard of 31" wheels.

P.S. You can be pretty sure that most freight car wheels are 33" -- except maybe auto racks -- or so I have heard. I don't own any auto racks.


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## Mseav (Jul 30, 2015)

MtRR75 said:


> I you replace the original wheels with different-sized wheels, your couplers might not line up correctly with the other cars in your train.
> 
> If you switch to larger wheels, they might rub against parts of the car bottom on curves.
> 
> ...


 Thank you


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