# My N scale adventure begins



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Many of you have seen my thread "considering N scale". Well the adventure begins! Our location gives me 30" wide and 30' long with a tunnel through the wall into an adjacent room. The other room is just enough room to turn the train around in. 

This will also be "kid friendly" and my 7yo seems to be calling the shots! We aren't going for a specific location or railway. Right now we just have a JNR Hayabusa bullet train and are strongly considering a fantasy, jurassic park style location with typical forest, a caretakers village and maybe a "tourist town". 

...yep... dinosaurs. Many here might look down on this idea, but it's our railroad..
So, our rules. And it keeps the kids interested, fosters imagination and interest in the sciences. And it's fun!

All that said, we have a good collection of kato unitrack and have laid down a foamboard foundation. I need to finalize the track plan and start on the topography. 






































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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

One question so far. My HO layout is on a solid wood surface. This time I am using foam board and plan to use brown paint and woodlands scenics grass. Because the layout is so long, there are multiple seems between foam panels. How do you cover these up? I had thought of taping them but assume I would then have lines from the tape edge. Putty? 

Second question,I want to make some rolling hills, maybe some rocky outcroppings. The easiest would be to use plaster cloth. That would make it more difficult to plant trees after the fact (I planned to use the type you can just push into the foam). So what other methods would work? Spray foam shaped with a putty knife?

3rd, anyone have a source for 1:160 dinosaurs or jurassic park items!?

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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Sealing the seams with tape could be problematic if the sticky on the tape failed with age and started to peel up. I've never done it, but I'd think plaster would do well. A caulk would also work, and would be flexible to allow small movements of the foam panels. Once you paint it and apply some grass and/or dirt the seam should be pretty well hidden, especially if you do some rolling hills in those areas.

Simply poking a hole in the hills would allow you to insert tree trunks. Gluing them in place would hold them vertical. Spray foam is so sticky and gooey, I'd never use it on a layout. Once it sets it's OK, but trying to shape it could be a nightmare!

I like your idea of the dinosaurs! Might as well make a fantasy layout a true fantasy land.

You are so fortunate to have all that space to build. And sharing with your son...Awesome!


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

The blade went at an angle on a few. Probably because I had to cut them in the Lowes parking lot so they would fit in my car !









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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I wouldn't be concerned with scale dinosaurs on a fantasy railroad.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> I wouldn't be concerned with scale dinosaurs on a fantasy railroad.


I get what your saying, but what we have is comically large. Even my 7yo isn't happy with that, so something smaller is needed. If they exist in scale, great; if not, I'll just find something that's close enough

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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

vette I used joint compound to fill seems in my foam.
With big seems like yours might take two application to get smooth.
I just sanded the compound down once dry.
Where its real wide you might stuff something in there as a filler.
Even heavy paper (grocery bag?) would work if pushed down tightly. 

Magic


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Only a few are wide like that. Most are factory edges and fit nice and tight. I'll see if I can tighten them a little and look into some joint compound

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

The dinosaurs are going to be more difficult than I thought. While they do not have to be 1:160 or 150 scale, I think they need to be at least no larger than around 1:100 and they need to be somewhat scaled to each other. Brachiosaurus needs to be roughly twice the size of TRex. 

May seem odd to many of you, but I do want it to look somewhat realistic. I think it will make a fun and interesting scene if done right. And my son is into dinosaurs enough that he highlights the sizes aren't right on the ones he has (T Rex bigger than Brachiosaurus). I'm sure we can find some jeeps to paint in a rough jurassic park theme. 

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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Here is one from Shapeways I found: David Krentz Dinosaurs by dkrentz - Shapeways Shops. He says they are 1/144th scale, which should be close enough that you can make it work, and they are at least all the same scale. You will probably have to paint them after you get them.

For a fun alternative, there is a group that makes dioramas based on Kato N scale buildings and Godzilla attacking. My son showed it to me one time (he likes to do miniatures for war gaming) and I cannot find it now, but I will get with him next week about it.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Those are perfect! Thank you. Painting scares me a bit, I've never done that level of detail paint. But I'll give it a go!

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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Those are perfect! Thank you. Painting scares me a bit, I've never done that level of detail paint. But I'll give it a go!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


vette_kid;

You and your son are not the first to feature dinosaurs on a train layout. I've seen modular layouts at train shows that had a dinosaur section. Of course I've also seen my share of (human) "dinosaurs" standing next to train layouts, and now, I are one! 
As for painting your dinosaurs, the ideal way would be with an airbrush. If you don't have an airbrush, but do have an air compressor, or access to one, Harbor freight sells a basic, but perfectly functional, airbrush for $10. (see photo) 
I have one, and find it so easy and convenient to use, that I seldom use my much more expensive model.

They could also be brush painted. That way, you could use simple, inexpensive craft paints available at Walmart or any craft store. These water-based paints are too thick for an airbrush, but will work fine with simple artist's type brushes. They cover well, dry to a flat finish and can be cleaned up with soap & water.

If you use drywall joint compound to fill the cracks between foam panels, you can also use drywall tape to cover the wider cracks & coat that with the joint compound. Drywall pros, and amateurs' do this all the time.
Do not use expanding spray foam around your little guy. That stuff is an extremely powerful adhesive, and nearly impossible to get off. Think of it as super glue in a high-capacity, hard to control, spray can.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Thanks TF! I'm all too familiar with the properties of expanding spray foam! I carried it around for a week on my hand!! 

If line to try my hand at air brushing. Are the cheap compressors at HF worth trying? I have a large garage compressor, but it isn't filtered enough for painting and is expensive and difficult to do that. 

Id love to create the large gates from the movie for the tunnel entrance too. I'd think a true modeler would find 3d printer and some software to be really useful. 

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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

If you don't have compressor then I think your better off with a small compressor build tor an airbrush that has the moisture trap and all built in and is QUIET! Nothing like spraying away and have the compressor kick in and make you jump and spray goes everywhere. Also the big compressor are sometimes not oilless and you don't want the paint contaminated with a little oil! I think Harbor freight also sells them.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Thanks TF! I'm all too familiar with the properties of expanding spray foam! I carried it around for a week on my hand!!
> 
> If line to try my hand at air brushing. Are the cheap compressors at HF worth trying? I have a large garage compressor, but it isn't filtered enough for painting and is expensive and difficult to do that.
> 
> ...


vette_kid;

I've never owned a small air compressor from Harbor Freight, so I can't say if they are good or not. Generally speaking, Harbor freight's products are pretty low quality, but you do find the occasional item that's fine for a given job. The $10 airbrush is a good example.
I have a small oil less diaphragm type made by Paasche, which is a very good brand of airbrushes and compressors. I paid $50 for it about 45 years ago, and it still works well, and quietly. I have never had to fix it.
I also have a big air compressor made by Ridgid which I can use for an airbrush, though it is normally used for other purposes. It is also an oil less model and is a lot louder. To use an airbrush with a big compressor, it needs a pressure regulator, (built-into my Ridgid) and a moisture trap. To be effective, the moisture trap needs to be about 15-20 feet down a hose, to let the warm air from the compressor cool down enough for the moisture in that air to condense into water.
There are also compressed air cans that can be used to operate an airbrush. But, if you do much airbrushing, you soon get tired of the considerable limitations of the cans, and buy a compressor. You might look on Amazon, and read the reviews. I usually start first with the negative, one star, reviews t find out what's wrong with the product, and then move on to the positive ones. 
An airbrush, and compressor, are very handy items for model railroading. I've used mine for everything from repainting locomotives, to painting clouds on backdrops, to weathering cars & structures.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Ok, a little lesson in failure today. I'm making a mini diorama for my daughter (unicorns and fairies!). It's a great test bed for the larger scale that will be my layout. Anyway, I did not have sculptamold available, assuming it's a molding compound, I used perfect mold. If this is anything like sculptamold then this is going to be a challenge. This stuff set VERY quickly making it hard to work it in appropriately and I'm concerned about it taking paint as it seems to have a glossy sheen to it. 

On a plus side, I think it will make great mold for when i find a dinosaur I like, i can recreate them!
























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Hind sight I realize a grossly misunderstood this process and the fact that sculptamold is entirely different from molding compound...doh! Ah well, live and learn. 

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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Hind sight I realize a grossly misunderstood this process and the fact that sculptamold is entirely different from molding compound...doh! Ah well, live and learn.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Yep! it is. And you can't make Penicillin from it either. 😄 I use Elmer's wood filler for some of my scenery work. It gives you a long working time as it sets up hard overnight. Its water soluble and takes paint well.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Well thankfully all the mold compound peeled up overnight. No harm, no foul. 

On another note, playing with the track some and added a siding for a passenger terminal. For some reason the track lost power past the turnout. So something wrong with the turnouts? I'll have to do some investigating on that. 

I'm still tempted to get the license for anyrail, but with unitrack is fairly easy to experiment until you get what you want. At least with my layout. Although it's large, it's fairly simple. One loop with a siding for passenger terminal and one for cargo (eventually). 



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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Are they power routing with the point position? If so, wire a drop to the diverging leg.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I honestly don't know. They are the standard kato unitrack turnouts. 

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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I don't use unitrack, I use Peco turnouts and flex track for my N scale layout, so I don't know how unitrack turnouts are wired, but the turnout should have come with instructions. You know the old saying: "if at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer..." Oh wait that's auto mechanics... "When all else fails, read the instructions!" Are you using DC or DCC? You can always add a couple electrical feeder drops past the turnout, a good idea no matter what to add a pair of feeders soldered to the outside web of the rails about every 3 feet, especially with sectional track. NEVER trust the rail joiners to make and keep electrical supply. Doubly important with DCC! (to go along with that don't use feeders soldered to the rail joiners either.)
Again, read the directions! Even tho they have similar names scupltamold and perfect mold are for exactly opposite applications. Sculptamold is a modelling compound used to build up area and meant to be the final permanent surface. Perfect mold is a mold making compound meant to be used to take an impression of an object or surface, be lifted off that surface and then filled with plaster or resin to cast a reproduction of the surface. One use on a model RR would be to coat actual rock surface to mold and cast a thinner lighter version of that surface to make mountains, rock faces etc.
I'm hoping you'll start reading directions and/or asking for advice BEFORE you make all the possible novice mistakes and learn it all the hard way. That's the beauty of having the internet! Had you cut the foam sheets in 1/2 the LONG way, you would have ended up with far fewer joints to deal with, but a bigger problem for you is you are going to have to stabilize that foam in place before attempting to cover, fill or seal the seams. That means gluing them down to the cabinet tops or at least a subbase of plywood or OSB, staggering the foam seams and the subbase seams. Otherwise the seams in the foam will just keep opening up every time the foam is disturbed. An alternative would be to glue a second layer of foam sheet covering over the foam layer you have without filling the seams, again alternating/bridging the seams in the first layer with the second sheet. It could be a thin covering of 1/2" foam sheet, or a thicker foam sheet that can also be carved to start your scenery contours. I would use Liquid Nails FOR PROJECTS since it is _*foam safe*_ and available in inexpensive caulking tubes, Just gun it onto the lower sheet and spread into a thin even layer with a wide putty knife or plastic spreader. Lay the second sheet on top and weight down with whatever is available, weights, bricks, paint cans, gallon water jugs, etc and let dry over night. Now you can fill the top seams with joint compound, latex caulk (NOT silicone caulk!), or _low expansion_ spray foam.
If you want to give track planning software a go, I'd highly recommend downloading_ xtrackcad_, It is free, and there are versions available for Windows, Mac, and Unix operating systems. It is well supported and is continuously being further developed. It has a large user base/forum of friendly and helpful people. It is as complete as most anything else out there, and covers all scales and every brand of commercial track and hand laid track. I am using it to plan my N scale 8' x 18' 2 level layout with > 400 actual feet of track which equals > 13 scale miles! and > 60 turnouts.
Another suggestion for you: on a long narrow track plan like that, try to avoid long straight runs parallel to the edges, add some curves and waves, and run most at an angle to the edge. That adds a lot of visual interest to watching the trains run and gives space for scenery both inside and outside the track. You might look at some N scale track plans meant for 30" wide doors, a popular base for N scale layouts, then when you find one you like, stretch it or combine two into one to fit your space or look at shelf layouts and widen. One good thing about unitrack is you can build just a portion of the layout at first then open it up and add to it as the interest grows.
As far as dinosaurs, have you checked out your local Michael's craft store, they have good selection of dinosaurs in various scales that are very well done. Painting isn't really a problem pick up a few bottles of flat finish latex craft paints while there, and some painting or makeup sponges. Dinosaurs were reptiles so were colored earth colors in irregular patterns, perfect for sponge painting. Cut off a small irregular section of sponge, thin a small amount of paint about 50-50 with water and dip the sponge lightly into the paint, Dab onto paper towel until paint is almost gone from sponge then dab lightly and randomly on the model applying just a small amount of paint. Remember you can always add more paint but it's hard to take off too much. Look at modern color illustrations of dinosaurs as they likely were colored and patterned and try to get the same effect on the model.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Don't be so quick to judge! Most of the turnouts I have are non selectable. The directions for these things are basically correct to your track, plug in and go. The selectable ones do have directions, but they are pretty easy to figure out. Regardless, that wasn't the problem. I find 3 track joiners that were missing the little metal thingy (technical term) that makes the electrical connection between sections. Problem solved. They are easy to miss if you are using used track and have a long run like this. 

As to the gaps, most are cut length wise for 8ft runs with factory edges. 3 sheets was the perfect amount with the 18" rip being used to fill the 6ft gap (3×8=24 leaves 6 feet to cover). I could have eliminated that with another sheet, but my car was full as it was and I had to cut them down in the Lowes parking lot. So it's a trade off. 

We are also more or less set on the track plan. I think I'll just lengthen the siding for a passenger terminal and a cargo terminal. Either that or add another turnout to go under the bridge and have the freight area on its own line (maybe a wildlife unloading area!?). The loop needs one more turnout to complete it and will go around a pond. All of it is temporarily tacked down with HO track nails to the side to keep it straight. It will get glued down somehow once we are set.























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

That first comment was meant to be in jest. Reading it, it didn't come out that way without emojis and I hadn't figured that out on Tapatalk. No offense was taken and I appreciate your comments.

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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

Assembly of my DPS foam for my TT scale layout which only came in 2x2 foot squares was butt jointed with a product call Glidden Gripper, now made by PPG. Did two pieces at a time with 2x4 as a barrier guide and gallon water jugs as weights. My platform is 4x7 and I could hold one end and it has no deflecton. Purchased 1qt at Lowe's.


https://www.ttnut.com/download/file.php?id=12691&mode=view




https://www.ttnut.com/download/file.php?id=12690&mode=view


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

vette-kid said:


> The blade went at an angle on a few. Probably because I had to cut them in the Lowes parking lot so they would fit in my car !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Use a square and recut


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Been a slow week, but I got some work done today. Mostly squaring up joints on the foam board and working on track design. Turnouts are wired, still waiting on one more to arrive. 

I've decided on the water feature. This will be a watering hole fed by a few streams. I need to workout how to cross the streams. I can use girder plate bridges for straight sections, but kato doesn't make one in a tighter radius than 448, which is to wide for my needs. So what is an alternative way to cross here. I dont want a lot of elevation, I want it no more than a half inch off the water line.
















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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

One other question that has come up with regard to what order your do things. This is only my second layout, my first I cheated a bit and used grass mat to be more kid friendly. This layout will be (from what I gather)a bit more traditional with foam board base and sculptamold/ foam/ plaster cloth terrain. 

How do you paint around/near the track? Do you lay track first and then trim around it with paint and grass, or do you pull the track up and paint under? I can see advantages and disadvantages either way. I think it's because to put track down first to decide how and where the terrain will go, and with unitrack pulling it up isn't that difficult (I would trace where it goes first).

So what's the common way to do this and why?

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Terrain going in. Still needs sculptamold and I ran out of plaster cloth. Could have used another layer.
















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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Little progress over the last few days. The main hill is mostly done. I need a little more sculptamold to smooth it out. 

Got started on the river and lake. I found 1/4 foam paneling at Lowes. Just enough to give me something to work with for the water. Much easier than carving into the other panels. I considered going with 1/2", but that would be a lot to fill with the resin. So waiting on my bridges to arrive, but as long as I can make them work with only 1/4" I'll keep it as is. 

Also got the first round of dinosaurs in. They look great, hopefully I can paint them well enough to do them justice. I have found different files that will allow me to scale them for slightly different sizes, so I may try them next. That will give me multiple poses and size variation to break up a herd (pod? School???)






























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Not much new going on yet, been a busy couple of weeks. I did pick these guys up, used but NIB. Needed since lube, but they run great and will be the backbone of JP railways freight operations. Unlike the film, our island is connected to the mainland by a rail service. Passengers arrive at the island via high speed bullet trainor by boat. Goods are shipped regularly by rail and an additional train will provide sightseeing tours. Since it's a tropical island, much of the produce is grown there and will have a fourth, small train that will fairy produce from the fields to the dock for processing. 

The gentlemen that has the C44s had one more that I may go back for later if he still has it. I can double head the freight train and use the third for tours. Although I feel like a small steamy might be better for that operation. Undecided. The nice part about these is that they are undecorated and a perfect platform for a jurassic park themed paint job. In fact, I may just leave them grey and add some orange/ red stripes that mimic the jeep and some decals. The Hayabusa will get waterside decals and that's it. I hope to do similar with some rolling stock and already have a custom livestock transport on the way. Should be fun!

Also still missing is a passenger terminal and freight loading dock. For passengers i think a simple outdoor platform will work. For freight, I'm not sure yet. I want to keep it small for space considerations, but we plan to have a decent freight operation to include delivery of vehicles from the mainland. So the search continues. 









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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Reasonable sized dinos are out there...mine have been roaming the N scale layout since my son was five. He's now an adult...

They're standing next to an Atlas N scale truck.....










...and then there's always the king...


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Looking for road bridges to get a gravel/ dirt road across smallish rivers/ streams. Any suggestions?

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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

vette-kid said:


> Looking for road bridges to get a gravel/ dirt road across smallish rivers/ streams. Any suggestions?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Down here we have retired flatcars used to make single lane bridges. Railings, when installed, get built using the stake pockets.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Cool idea

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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Looking for road bridges to get a gravel/ dirt road across smallish rivers/ streams. Any suggestions?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


vette_kid

Almost any kind of small bridge would do, depending on how wide the gap to be crossed is. 
I have seen the converted flatcar bridges that shaygetz mentioned, in fact I've crossed a few on a hiking trail. I haven't seen one used to carry a road, but there's no reason why they couldn't be.

Don't discount railroad bridges when you want one for a road. Some of the same basic designs are used for either road or rail. The main difference being the load rating. Beefier construction is needed for rail use, but smaller plate girder, and truss, bridges are widely used to carry roads as well.
One idea would be to use Micro Engineering's 40' N-scale deck girder bridge. It's not only half the length of the 80' models shown in photo 1, but a considerably smaller girder too. It would make a very nice little road bridge. Atlas offers built-up through truss and plate girder bridges in the 60-70' range. I would turn the plate girder bridge upside down, since deck girder bridges are common on roads, and through girder bridges a lot less common, but it will work either way.

Another possibility would be a concrete arch "small bridge/big culvert." These are super easy to scratchbuild using a piece of scrap lumber with a large hole drilled through it, and the bottom part of the hole cut off. Commercial tunnel portals can also be cut down to make arched masonry bridges.

If you look at only the small truss crossing directly over the rail line in photo 2, it would be only about 60 feet long, which is a pretty small bridge. The overall structure is large, and complex, but scratchbuilding only the one small part would be a lot easier. There is an even smaller example in photo 3. Again, you would model only the small truss section, and discount the rest of the trestle.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Thanks for ask the bridge ideas. I've got a flat trailer on the way to experiment with ($5 eBay find). 

In the meantime, InGen had contacted with Conrail for shipping logistics. While InGen will maintain its own small fleet for on island use, Conrail will provide freight logistics to and from the island. 

The main reasoning here in the real, is that it's much cheaper to use these Conrail trailers that come with the piggybacks than it is to buy the piggyback and undecorated trailer separately. I have 2 -9s that are undecorated and will get jurassic park livery, they may get a Conrail logo as well. I'd live to find a pair or trio of matching modern diesels to handle the freight to and from island as well. 

More to follow as I get more done hopefully this week. I've gotten started on securing the track down to the foam and the inclines sorted. Door shims and stops of corroplast make the transition from the higher levels. Contractor door shims are an almost perfect 2% grade or 1.25deg.























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

My 3d printed jeeps turned out to be a bit small. These are closer to 180 scale at a smudge over .75". I was hoping to have a fleet of these being delivered on an open autorack, but they are just too small I think. Paint turned out ok...ish. maybe some liquid tape to help sharpen the lines. The surface is a bit rough though, so it's going to be a challenge. Thoughts?
















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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Hah a few hours today to play with the layout, so I finally got the rest (more or less) of the sculptamold down. Turned out fairly well I think, well see when I get the rest of the landscaping down. The edges of the lake will get gravel along with the "shelf" at the edge of the river. It's not perfect, but I think it will turn out well. You can see the shim stock I used for the grade. That actually worked pretty well and has a nice smooth transition to the different levels. 

On the sculptamold, HOT water and a paint blade on the drill worked to keep it fairly smooth. 

I've only got about a week left before I head out of country for a few months, I'd love to get grass and water in before then, but I still need to do the road first. Primary goal is getting the track hooked back up so my son can play with it while I'm gone, and I have some cars to do coupler conversions so he can use them. 
























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Can someone explain the best way to create a dirt road crossing on kato unitrack? I know they have grade crossing sections, but those are obviously for paved roads. 

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Slow progress... honey do list keeps getting in the way! I'm just about ready to put in the gravel road, built the approaches and smoothed it aside bumpy areas with drywall hole filler, goes on nice and smooth and takes paint well. 

I got this guy painted in prep for the lake. He needs to go in before water is poured. This is my first real paint work with the airbrush. I'm getting the hang of it.. could be better. Olive green base with iridescent silver mixed with blue-green for the back. Good old testers for the white and black details using a toothpick. Inside the mouth was a mix of red and black that actually looks a bit like rust red, but I think it works. All colors except black and white are Vallejo. 

The first custom loco is about done as well, just need decals. 































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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

First loco is painted and logo'd. I wanted to add more detail, numbers, conrail, etc, but I think the decals I have may be too old. I can't get them to transfer. They will eventually fall apart, but will not slide off the backing. Tried using water and micro-set. They are old leftover HO scale sheets I got from ebay or here, I don't recall. So I'm going to need new decals. 

















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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

For reference









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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

I've been looking for this pic since this thread was started.

I finally found it.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

That is awesome! Any idea where that's from? 

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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Do those come with creosote dipping sauce?


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

vette-kid said:


> Any idea where that's from?


No. When I did find the image and clicked on it the page I went to didn't even contain the image.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

First test for gravel road. Just paint with fine ballast directly into the wet paint. I'm out of time for a while so this is probably it until Octoberish.
















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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

With a little color added. I think there is potential with at least some of it. Not all together like this, and some of it needs some dullcote, but for tropical foliage this is what I've found so far. 































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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Found some clear acrylic spheres to make the little gyrospheres. I'll need to fashion a seat of some kind, but it should work. 






9/16" (14.3mm) Clear domes - Kit Kraft


Clear plastic hemisphere/dome. Bond two together with a plastic cement for a perfect sphere. Use them for models, prototypes, snow globes, school...




kitkraft.com














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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Been a while, so I guess it's time for an update. Honestly hasn't gotten a lot done other than cleaning up some track work and getting things running smoothly. My foam had an odd warping issue that was giving me fits. some extra glue and heavy books seem to have fixed it. And a few spots of track that had too much glue and didn't settle flat. 

I got the 24 car consist to run reliably around the loop a good dozen or so times (1:30 for a full loop at max throttle, closer to 2:30 at more realistic speeds... although it's not super fast at full throttle). That's using only 2 locos to get up the grade. And I believe I can back down the weight on some of the autoracks (those NEED weight added to track reliably, total weight of around 1.75oz seems to do it). You can still see the painted loco lights flickering, that's the one with fog snot. I need to remove that and maybe try the lead or trailing axle instead of the center one. 

Hopeful I'll be ready to move on to scenery next. I tried a bit of static grass and it didn't seem to work too well. This is with a cheap Amazon battery powered applicator... so that may be the issue?














Tapatalk Cloud - Downlaoad File 20211118_162054~4.mp4

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Let me try that video again








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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

The trackwork is good and the double header consist runs reliably with 25 cars, a good share of them autoracks. I've run it up to about 30 minutes non stop with no issues on multiple occasions (havn't had a chance to go much longer than that) But I've found putting a helper at the tail causes issues with occasional derailments. I get the same problem when trying to back into a siding. Is this just something I'll have to live with? Or is there a way to get better performance when pushing? The trouble spots tend to be backing through the turnouts into a siding and at the bottom of a hill. With the hill it will generally derail when the last third is starting to exit the slope. My guess, the engines up front are starting to lose momentum and slow, but the rear engine is still on the slope and pushing faster. There is a turn not to far after the grade so the derailment tends to happen there. It navigates perfectly will all the power up front (1, 2 or 3 locos).

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## vash811 (11 mo ago)

Hi! I just wanted to say I happened by this forum and thread by accident Googling scale scenery for a layout I'm trying to start, and wanted to say I love your ideas! I too am going to attempt a Jurassic Park and industries as well! Not quite as large as your project, but I'm certainly going to be taking some inspirations from yours, especially the 1/144 scale dinos you found! 

How has your layout progressed?


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Glad you find it useful! I hadn't updated this thread in a while, but there has not been a ton of progress. I'm stalling on doing grass because I've never done it before and don't want to screw it up! Am well that and life. 

I've been testing with gravel roads and painting dinos and structures. 

The big guy is close, but not done yet. I plan to do a wash and then some dry brushing. Also need to do a transparent skin tone to bring out the under belly.

I've also started some war gaming structures that will work as observation outposts. These will monitor the railroad as well as serve as a science station to monitor dinos on the more wild side of the island, which is what I'm depicting.






























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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

I suggest getting a small scrap board or boards or rigid foam or, well, you get the idea, to practicing doing grass on.


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## CHRlSTIAN (12 mo ago)

Very nice dinos. Well done.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Chaostrain said:


> I suggest getting a small scrap board or boards or rigid foam or, well, you get the idea, to practicing doing grass on.


Yeah, I'm going to try and do that on the next few days. I've got plenty of scrap

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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Are you going to do static grass, or regular old grass? And are you HO or N (I can't remember)?

I found that lawn grass in N scale isn't really worth doing static grass unless you want field length grass. The smallest static grass I've found is 2mm. That's a little over 1 foot scale length. I find it sits too high for my liking. I think for HO scale, the 2MM static grass would be about 7 inches at scale, which is much better for lawn length. For N scale, I really prefer the old standby "mixed Green fine turf" from Woodland Scenic. I add in some "Earth color" turf for areas with crappy grass, and use the green blend by itself for nicer grassy areas.

I do use the 2mm and some 4mm static grass for fields... Like I said, 2mm static grass is a foot tall in N scale.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

This is N scale and most will be wild grass, so longer length. I do plan to use some regular type grass and some longer 4mm.

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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

The trick with static grass is to keep the hopper, which is either + or - charged close enough to the "ground" such that the static charge keeps the blades of grass standing on end long enough to allow the grass to stay that way until the glue dries. Start with the lowest, or shortest, grass first. Let that completely dry before adding more (longer) grasses. Each "round" of flocking needs to dry before adding more, or you risk having the longer, and heavier, grasses matt down the shorter pieces. So a couple hours between courses.

BTW, my homemade applicator works just fine. Started out as a cheap bug zapper tennis racket shaped thing. And it HURTS when I accidentally zap myself... Kind of like when Cousin Eddy stands too close to the microwave.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Trying to get back on track with this. I've been able to run trains, but I really want to get the scenery done. I keep getting distracted with extra odds and ends that in not ready for. The result is I end up with a dozen unfinished projects!

So here is my punch list. 


I need to finalize the plan for the yard/ transfer station
construct bridges for gravel road
find a small passenger station and warehouse
start laying gravel for the gravel lot and road.
grass, trees etc
details (dinos, vehicles, tourists etc)

For the warehouse I'm considering this prefab from Rix. The trains would be serviced by a container loader and fork lift. I'll use piggybacks and 40ft containers mostly. I'll also be adding some sort of temporary animal enclosure for livestock arrivals, a small workshop for vehicles and an open storage area (containers, pallets, etc)









Prefab Warehouse N Scale


Dimensions: 30 X 80 Scale Feet Stock No. 541-8003 Building shown 20 scale feet tall. This kit is designed with cut lines on the back side of the walls so that you can choose the height of the building. Walls are 24 scale feet high with cut lines to produce a 20,16,12, and 10 foot tall...




rixproducts.com






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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Ok I know I'm supposed to be focused on the basics, but I couldn't resist these. Not sure where they will go yet, but somewhere near the layout for sure. Printed on tin.









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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Finally progress! Gravel road is in, at least most of it. Still dying but I think it turned out well. Brown paint underneath, then a modified ballast tool made quick work of the gravel. I used saved grout missed with a bit of ballast and a spray bottle to wet it.






























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

This is not setting up very well. It is better than loose gravel but nowhere near regular grout or even as firm as my test piece. Not sure why, I did everything the same. I'll try another water spray tomorrow and then maybe just use a bit of scene cement. 

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Progress has been painfully slow with a deployment over the summer, kids activities, etc. But with retirement in the horizon and our unit going through some MAJOR changes (long frustrating story), I find I actually have some time now. Road are finished, started the lake pour (which isn't going great ) and started the grass. More to come tomorrow, it's really a simple layout, just big. Most of you probably have more track in less space than I have, but we aren't going for complicated train operations. 

The lake so far has 4 bottles of JTT resin water, I estimate it would take 6-8 more to finish it! I do have that amount in a 2 part resin. Just trying to decide if I can use it over the JTT product without any issues. It's a big lake and I made it too deep.









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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> It's a big lake and I made it too deep.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


I did the same mistake. Didn't know we're supposed to make it shallow and use colors to make it appear deep.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

After letting paint and glue dry overnight in pretty pressed with the results. I through on a little detail to begin to see a final product. A little over spray of grass obey the roads, which probably isn't unrealistic anyway. 

I'm pretty pleased so far... needs more trees for sure. Most of these are second hand trees that assist to be made of seedum. Palm trees have the trunk coats with something (saw dust??) Which makes them look much better. I'll have to figure out a way to replicate that. 

Running a hand vac over the surface reclaimed some grass, looks like most stuck in place, so that's good. 






































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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Mosasour in the lake, ready for the rest of the pour. Here is the product used and what I'm considering using for the rest. Appreciate if anyone had any input there. 
























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

More grass in, getting there. When using scene cement over the grass, the spray almost always causes the grass to clump a bit. I suppose it gives a bit of a more wild look to it, but I do wish I could find a way to avoid that. 

Also need to find some weed, vines etc for the piers.









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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Have you tried putting down the glue first and then the grass with an electrostatic applicator? On slopes you may still need to "tease" the grass vertically as it will want to stand at right angles to the sloped surface. You can do this with a sharp toothpick or pin before the glue sets. Putting a headless pin into a pin vise or glue into a hole in the end of a dowel or other comfortable handle will make the work much easier with less hand cramping. I've never actually tried gluing the grass after application. If your glue dries too fast to glue and apply grass to a 6x6" area before the glue dries, you glue is too thin or has too much alcohol in it. If I need a spray glue say to hold foliage on a tree form, I use the cheapest hairspray I can find at the Dollar Store.
Vines are like sparse flat trees. For vine you can use some jute or sisal twine, or green or brown fiberfill type material as the base. dust it with a light coat of dark brown or black untwist it and pull apart as many strands as you want. Retwist the ends of a few strands to begin you vines then crush and pull apart, cut to various lengths and use the hair spray to apply your foliage.Woodland Scenics sells green fiberfill. You can buy foliage or dye and grind up leaves from the yard. Also look at the spice area of the grocery store for dried oregano or parsley. Crush finer if need be. Use different foliage in different areas if you want to simulate a different vine growing in that area. Carry some up nearby tree trunks, fence poles and even parts of bushes. 
Try clipping some of the bristles out of that paint brush, take clumps and dip the darker ends in "tacky" glue and hold in place upright for a couple minutes until the glue starts to set, looks like tall dried weeds, or bull rushes along edges of ponds. Make your own grass clumps by mixing longer lengths and colors of static grass randomly (I like to add some 10mm tan or straw colored fibers mixed in to represent older weeds that have died back). tape down a sheet of plastic wrap inside a cookie sheet, fill a glue syringe with "tacky glue" and apply a series of glue dots about 1/8 -1/4" in diameter about 3/4" apart. Wait about 1 minute then apply the static grass heavily to the glue dots. allow to dry for about an hour or two and shake the excess grass back into your mixed container. You can now peel off the clumps and apply randomly into you landscape where weeds might grow. Odd numbers of clumps looks more natural.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Thanks, the glue is just to hold the top layer in place. I am using paint first and applying the grass directly to the wet paint. It's not static grass. The paint mimics dirt for thin areas. But requires more grass to get the nice green color. 

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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> Thanks, the glue is just to hold the top layer in place. I am using paint first and applying the grass directly to the wet paint. It's not static grass. The paint mimics dirt for thin areas. But requires more grass to get the nice green color.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk



Try hairspray dries faster see If that will get the look.

Not sure if you are done with the gravel roads. The way I did them on last layout I marked up where I wanted the gravel like you do a regular road with ws paving tape.i put a thin coat of Elmer's glue on then I put the ballast down. I then sprayed it with ws scenic cement or one I made from glue and water (can't remember which I used. Turned out pretty good and held in place.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Conductorkev said:


> Try hairspray dries faster see If that will get the look.
> 
> Not sure if you are done with the gravel roads. The way I did them on last layout I marked up where I wanted the gravel like you do a regular road with ws paving tape.i put a thin coat of Elmer's glue on then I put the ballast down. I then sprayed it with ws scenic cement or one I made from glue and water (can't remember which I used. Turned out pretty good and held in place.


Dang, hairspray. Why didn't I think of that! I'll give that a try on the next portion. Id do have more roads to go, but I have that down fairly well. I use sanded grout. I still use the paint first. Paint on the road, then cover with grout using a modified ballast spreader. After an hour or two when the paint is dry, spray liberally with water and let set overnight. Might take 2-3 sprays with water before its fully set. But those roads are pretty solid. 

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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Dang, hairspray. Why didn't I think of that! I'll give that a try on the next portion. Id do have more roads to go, but I have that down fairly well. I use sanded grout. I still use the paint first. Paint on the road, then cover with grout using a modified ballast spreader. After an hour or two when the paint is dry, spray liberally with water and let set overnight. Might take 2-3 sprays with water before its fully set. But those roads are pretty solid.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


vette-kid;

You should be able to use the same technique for grass that you used for gravel roads. That is, put on a coat of paint first, ( I use flat tan acrylic house paint & I let it dry) then a layer of full strength Elmer's glue. Next, I sprinkle on a thin coat of very finely sifted real dirt, and finally grass. (commercial ground foam)
In your case, you could skip the dirt and just add grass right after the glue.

As for hairspray, use CHEAP hairspray. (I use Aquanet brand from Walmart) The cheap stuff is more sticky than the higher price brands. Its ideal for gluing leaves to trees that use cotton batting for the fill-in "branch" structure stretched over a twig "trunk." It should work well on your grass too.
For weeds I use fibers clipped from hemp rope. They can be planted with a dab of Elmer's glue. Dark green ground foam can mimic seaweed, especially if applied dripping wet.

Merry Christmas, Good Luck, & Have Fun;
Traction Fan 🙂


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Well I just happened to be headed to the store after reading that, so I got 2 cans of aquanet extra super hold!, haha. Works great so far, way more spray control than I had with my scene cement. 

Ive started filling in the forest a bit more with the trees I have, but its becoming clear that I will run out. So Ive started adding in a bit of some other trees that I had on hand, some pines mostly. I tried using some cheap amazon trees for filler, but the color is WAY off. Ill have to see if I can find a paint that more closely matches the stuff they used to make the seedum trees. and I need to find some seedum. Anyone have some they would sell? i dont have it here. Pics to come.

I didnt feel like getting the paint and laying any new grass today (my back needs a break!), and my son has been bugging me about not having bridges for the fgravel roads, so I triied my hand at scratch building a wooden bridge for it. turned out fairly well I think. I sitll need to stain it and add some weathering. For refrence, the bridge is about 65ft long. Pics to follow.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Merry Christmas!!































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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Merry Christmas!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


vette kid;

I spray painted my cheap Amazon trees with Rust-Oleum camouflage colors. The trees look a lot better painted than they do in their original "day-glow" color scheme.

Merry Christmas

Traction Fan 😊


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Haha... day-glo! Too true! I will look for that paint, or any camo green I suppose. 

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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

The Krylon camo colors are dead flat. Walmart carries them, a little goes a long ways.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I'll have to pick some up when I get back. Headed out of town for a week or so. I could really use those Amazon trees for filler. Even if I get my hands on some sedum, the time to make all those trees is just daunting. 

I'll have plenty of painting to do when I get back as is. Jurassic park gate needs painted and hung, bridge needs paint (and a second one built), the list goes on. 

All that aside, I feel this is a simple enough design I should be able to have it all "finished" in the next few weeks (pending my honey do list keeping to a minimum!). Meaning all the grass down, water finished and at least the initial landscape down. I'm sure I'll be adding to it for years. 

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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

traction fan said:


> vette kid;
> 
> I spray painted my cheap Amazon trees with Krylon camouflage colors. The trees look a lot better painted than they do in their original "day-glow" color scheme.
> 
> ...


I'll second this... Forgot who mentioned this method (probably was @traction fan) and I used some of the spray paint I used to give my mountians a better base color and just did a quick spray from a few feet away and the trees looked night and day better!


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Have you looked at the trees from China on ebay? Can get them in packs of 100 (or more) in various sizes darned inexpensive and not bad looking. Plant in groups, use the best tallest trees up front, the smaller ones going down in size and lighter (and greyer) in color going away towards the back "forces" the perspective and gives the impression of distance. Plant in "waves" of size with a small amount of space between the waves running perpendicular to the line of sight, just like waves on water. Raising the terrain as it goes away will also give the illusion of distance.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

scenicsRme said:


> Have you looked at the trees from China on ebay? Can get them in packs of 100 (or more) in various sizes darned inexpensive and not bad looking. Plant in groups, use the best tallest trees up front, the smaller ones going down in size and lighter (and greyer) in color going away towards the back "forces" the perspective and gives the impression of distance. Plant in "waves" of size with a small amount of space between the waves running perpendicular to the line of sight, just like waves on water. Raising the terrain as it goes away will also give the illusion of distance.


I have a pack of those, they are pretty bright!

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Any advice on how to recreate this texture? Looks like rough saw dust off since kind. If like to do this on some more trees I have, they come bare plastic. Someone glue this on









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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Haha... day-glo! Too true! I will look for that paint, or any camo green I suppose.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


vette kid;


I bought my camo paint at Walmart. I think Home Depot and/or Lowes probably have it too.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Just need to paint the sign. I'd love to find some TINY LEDs for flames. I'm pretty sure I've seen skeins that makes an LED that flickers in simulation of fire, but can't recall where.









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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Any advice on how to recreate this texture? Looks like rough saw dust off since kind. If like to do this on some more trees I have, they come bare plastic. Someone glue this on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


vette kid;

If you're trying for palm tree bark, you can cut some very thin strips of brown paper bags and glue one end to the bottom of the "tree trunk" ( stick, skewer, pipe cleaner) and wrap the strip of paper around the core in a spiral pattern, gluing as you go. Or you could use old fashioned brown paper parcel post tape, and just wet it as you go. The tape's own adhesive will do the rest. Once the "bark" has dried overnight, paint it you favorite Palm tree trunk color. BTW, the sets of Amazon cheap trees I bought each included one palm tree. Plenty of potential conifers, and a few deciduous, but only one palm. I just remembered the technique I used for my conifer trunks. I think It could be adapted for palm trees too. I used cheap plastic handled artists paint brushes as trunks. By heating them a bit, you could bend them into a palm tree shape. I used a razor saw to scrape bark texture into the plastic trunk. First 45degrees one way, and then 45 degrees the other way. The result is a rather good bark texture which I think would work equally well for palm trees if painted appropriate colors. 
See photos of my scratchbuilt conifers. The file explains how I made them.

Traction Fan 

Traction Fan


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> Picture


Is the joint in that track smooth? It looks to me like the outside rail on the right side of the curve is higher than on the left side track. I could be seeing it wrong because the gap in the roadbed may be causing an illusion, but it looks like some where I have had problems with the leading trucks on steam locos derailing from the bump.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Is the joint in that track smooth? It looks to me like the outside rail on the right side of the curve is higher than on the left side track. I could be seeing it wrong because the gap in the roadbed may be causing an illusion, but it looks like some where I have had problems with the leading trucks on steam locos derailing from the bump.


Bit of an optical illusion I think. But either way, that track is not part of my layout. That's a simple test loop in the workshop I use for getting older locos running. 

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## Chaostrain (Jan 27, 2015)

traction fan said:


> vette kid;
> 
> 
> I bought my camo paint at Walmart. I think Home Depot and/or Lowes probably have it too.
> ...


As does Ace Hardware


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Started on the filler trees. The paint makes a huge difference, but they are still a little too perfect shape. I'll use them surrounded by other trees just to take up some volume. Got 4 packagesof the woodland scenics forest canopy delivered today. Right at $80 for the four shipped. Not too bad!

















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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Also got some work done on the gate. Sprayed first with flat stone grey, then granite stone texture paint. I think it gives a nice finish for stone look in N scale. I'll do a little weathering still as well. And I need to build torch holders and simulated flames. 

For flame I ordered LED kits from Evans design in their "Pico" size and will ATTEMPT to mold flame with hot glue. 8mm styrene square tubing will make the "flame box". Had to order the styrene, so that's on hold. 









Fire LED Kit


Bring your model creation to life with a fire LED light kit from Evan Designs! These kits are perfect for fireplace and campfire dioramas. Shop today!




evandesigns.com



























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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Found some climbing vine by MP scenics. I think they will work, but it is a PAIN to work with!












































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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

Love the vine look, I'll have to look for that at my local shop.
Looks like you scenery is coming along nicely...keep on plugging!


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Awesome progress!!! This looks great! I love the painted sign.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

JeffHurl said:


> Awesome progress!!! This looks great! I love the painted sign.


Thank you, I'm rather proud of that myself! 

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

SF Gal said:


> Love the vine look, I'll have to look for that at my local shop.
> Looks like you scenery is coming along nicely...keep on plugging!


Thank you, I have a ways to go yet. The vine looks pretty good but it is VERY finicky to work with. You'll need a good deal of patience, which I don't have. My patience gets used up on my kids, I have nothing left! Ha! 

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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> Started on the filler trees. The paint makes a huge difference, but they are still a little too perfect shape. I'll use them surrounded by other trees just to take up some volume. Got 4 packagesof the woodland scenics forest canopy delivered today. Right at $80 for the four shipped. Not too bad!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The great thing about those canopy kits is you can trim the pieces to be as small or large as you'd like and they are definitely not uniform like thise guys! And $80 shipped for 4 is roughly what I got them for. Hopefully you didn't whipe out the suppliers I was saving if I end up needing more 🤣


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Will I got an ad on set for the Hayabusa and suddenly started have derailments. I've ran the 3 car basic set around at full speed probably through 100 loss without issue and 30 car consists behind the -9s also without issue(beside occasional uncoupling). So I suspect something with one of the cars, although it isn't readily apparent. Also noticed I made Mistake on my girder bridges, one; the sides are too tight for longer equipment. So I removed the sides for now. Two; I set them into the ground rather than ramping up a bit to them. Not sure what I was thinking there, but it's a rather easy fix. They only need to come up a few mm to clear the river, so track support isn't an issue, I'll just have to hide a bit of a gap with vegetation. 

I also took the plunge and poured the first round of tinted mod podge. It came out a little darker than I anticipated. Of course you can't really tell what the color will be until it dries, so that's an issue. Next coat will be much lighter tinted, so it should blend still...I hope. 










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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Got a bit more progress with the jurassic park gate. For comparison is a picture of the gate at Universal studios.
















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## Christiaη (2 mo ago)

Nicely done !


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## Christiaη (2 mo ago)

MichaelE said:


> I wouldn't be concerned with scale dinosaurs on a fantasy railroad.


 Me too ! As you can see below.


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## Christiaη (2 mo ago)

How did you fix the track: glue, nails or screws ? Thanks.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Christiaη said:


> How did you fix the track: glue, nails or screws ? Thanks.


Just a dab of glue here and there. I used hot glue. Elmers would have been fine. And just a spot each track piece, or every other if its flat. 

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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Just a dab of glue here and there. I used hot glue. Elmers would have been fine. And just a spot each track piece, or every other if its flat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


vette-kid & christian;

Elmer's glue would indeed be "fine" for gluing porous materials (like paper, cardboard & wood) to each other. However, Elmer's glue is not a "fine" choice for a track adhesive, in my opinion. This is because Elmer's does not bond well to non-porous materials, like plastic.
Yes, It will hold plastic track in place initially, but the bond is quite weak, and the track will break loose all too easily at some point.

Latex caulk, contact cement, hot glue, or even double-sided tape, will bond to both porous materials (like wood) and also to non-porous materials like plastic track, or extruded foam board.
( NOTE: The bottom surface of virtually all model track is made of plastic, whether you are using sectional track, flex track, or roadbed track.)

I would recommend using dabs of latex caulk for attaching track to the layout It forms a strong, semi-permanent, bond.
I say "semi-permanent" because the track will stay attached forever, unless you intentionally remove it by sliding a putty knife coated with WD-40 under the track. This method takes the track right back up quite easily.
The other adhesives I listed above are much more permanent, with the possible exception of hot glue, which can be cut, or re-heated to release the track.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Unitrack moves very little once connected and dies not need much to hold it, unless you are trying to hold it down on contour. Just my opinion after working with it quite a bit here. I actually ruined a turnout with hot glue as well. Wasn't paying attention and got glue in the wrong spot. A tiny bit of it made its way into the turnout and locked it up tight. Even after tearing it apart and cleaning everything I cannot get the turnout to work correctly again. So I go sparingly with the glue. Hot glue as needed on contoured surfaces, white glue every other piece of track and the track either side of a turnout. 

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

After a few days drying, the lake is looking pretty good, a bit dark, but I can live with it. A few bubbles have appeared in a few spots, but it's fixable. Nowhere near what @afboundguy is experiencing. Most of mine is fairly thin, 1/8"- 1/4". A few spots are deeper due to uneven terrain. I'll need more layers though, and this layer is kind of leveling layer. The rest should be more uniform. I was going to put another before I left town today, but there are some soft spots still (just a few) and I dint want to risk those outgassing through a new pour. So I'll leave it until I get back in a few days. 

The closer up pics color is off, it's just the light. The full pic is pretty close in color.























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## afboundguy (Jan 10, 2021)

@vette-kid if my bubbles were like that I wouldn't consider redoing mine... Only wish mine looked like that


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