# How to wire signal lights



## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Ok I bought a few signal lights and not understanding exactly how to wire them in.
I am on ho layout using tortoise switches dcc is nce decoder is mk8 and I do have the button board along to it. The signals have 4 wires. Red yellow green (representing each light) and black as the common.
Any help would be much appreciated


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I'm not familiar with hoe Tortise switch machines are set up or how the decoder is integrated into them.

Does the Tortise machine have accessory micro switches internally activated one way or another when the command to change points is given?

I use Walthers switch machines with internal switches that make wiring entry and exit signals very easy and straightforward.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> I'm not familiar with hoe Tortise switch machines are set up or how the decoder is integrated into them.
> 
> Does the Tortise machine have accessory micro switches internally activated one way or another when the command to change points is given?
> 
> I use Walthers switch machines with internal switches that make wiring entry and exit signals very easy and straightforward.


It doesn't have a decoder but it has two spdt hookups.

Two wires go to the decoder which is the nce mk8 with button board addon.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Before proceeding determine the voltage
specified for the signal lamps.
You would need a power source of that
voltage, DC if LEDs are used.. (the 12 V DC power
for the Tortoise may be possible source)
The signal black common
would go to negative (???) terminal of that source.
A wire from the positive terminal would go to
the center tab of the Tortise SPDT switdh. The
red and green wires would go to the 'switched'
SPDT tabs...the orientation of your signal would
determine which tab the Red would go on...thus
green would go on the other. 

Don


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Wire your aspects to the SPDT switch.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)




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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

gregc said:


>


I sorta figured that part but where would the yellow wire for the yellow light go?


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

to handle a yellow "approach" signal, the signals need to be connected to one another.

signals aren't normally controlled simply by the turnout position. the turnout determines a route. the signal should indicate if the route is clear. if the route is occupied the signal should indicate STOP. 

so a proper signal also requires block detection and doesn't even require a turnout.

a signaling "system" would go further so that a signal not only indicates if the route is occupied, STOP, it would indicate APPROACH if the next signal on that route is indicating STOP. if both the next signal is CLEAR and the route is un-occupied, the near signal would indicate CLEAR.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Using your signal for a turnout as an entry or exit signal, the yellow would not be used.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

gregc said:


>


If using AC to power signal, you may want to include a diode (any generic diode in 1N40xx series for example ) in series with the common lead to protect the LEDs from high reverse voltages that shorten siganl life, unless signal instructions state it will operate on AC with no problem.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

rrman987 said:


> If using AC to power signal, you may want to include a diode (any generic diode in 1N40xx series for example ) in series with the common lead to protect the LEDs from high reverse voltages that shorten siganl life, unless signal instructions state it will operate on AC with no problem.


Ya they talk about needing a diode if ac. Rather not go that route. Could I put a few of them tied to a 12v DC wall plug?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The 12 v DC wall plug would not need diodes...use it as a
source as described in Gregs excellent wiring diagram
and my previous post. If bulbs are LED observe polarity,
Black wire would be negative. If bulbs are less than 12 volts
a resistor in the black wire would be required to drop voltage.

The yellow wire is for the yellow in your signal...the Tortoise
does not have ability to power the yellow...you would need
a fairly complex system involving detectors in the
track to use the Yellow aspect AUTOMATICALLY. 
Unless you go into that
sophisticated signal system you
would simply ignore the yellow wire.


Don
Don


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

DonR said:


> The 12 v DC wall plug would not need diodes...use it as a
> source as described in Gregs excellent wiring diagram
> and my previous post. If bulbs are LED observe polarity,
> Black wire would be negative. If bulbs are less than 12 volts
> ...



Thx one more question. One or two might be having yo come off a atlas twin coil machine which will get its power off a decoder. So in that case would I get power off the middle screw so run black to it and then run red to one of the others and green to the 3rd?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

No, the wiring you propose for twin coil turnout machines
will not work for your signals. Twin coil motors operate using
a very short burst of power, then it goes dead. Thus your
signal lights would glow only during that 1 second. To make
it work, you would need a SPDT latching relay that uses the
pulse for the twin coil to actuate. 

Don


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

the yellow signal could be turned on for a delayed period of time when changing from red to green with some electronic circuitry (e.g. 555).

but does using a signal to indicate turnout position make sense, it's green for one position and red in the other, doesn't red mean STOP, or are there separate signals or each diverging turnout track?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I have mine set up like that for a station stop. Each leg gets a signal. When the main is open for through traffic that indicator is green and the siding leg signal is red. When the points are moved each signal indicated the opposite. 

In the case of the siding though, there are additional white indicators that indicate the train may pass that signal if neccessary for a long train or for shunting as long as it doesn't go past a marked point that would foul the main. The signals are set back slightly because of a tunnel entrance and the fact I didn't want wiring hanging in the lower crossing tunnel. It's a German thing.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> I have mine set up like that for a station stop. Each leg gets a signal. When the main is open for through traffic that indicator is green and the siding leg signal is red. When the points are moved each signal indicated the opposite.
> 
> In the case of the siding though, there are additional white indicators that indicate the train may pass that signal if neccessary for a long train or for shunting as long as it doesn't go past a marked point that would foul the main. The signals are set back slightly because of a tunnel entrance and the fact I didn't want wiring hanging in the lower crossing tunnel. It's a German thing.



Do you set the signals coming from the backside of the switch? I would think it silly to have one coming towards the switch because the worst that could happen Is a wrong turn unlike the other ways in which would cause a derailment.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

it may make more sense to have a single signal on the points side of a switch indicating green for the non-diverging route and yellow for the diverging route.

separate signals facing away from the switch and on each diverging path would indicate both that the switch is properly aligned and the path is clear


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Conductorkev said:


> Do you set the signals coming from the backside of the switch? I would think it silly to have one coming towards the switch because the worst that could happen Is a wrong turn unlike the other ways in which would cause a derailment.


No. Those tracks run trains in one direction only unless I'm running the ÖBB push-pull train. Sometimes that goes in the direction of the camera, and it would require a signal in that case, but that is the exception.

I may place a dummy signal down there just for looks.


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

Most simple model signal systems are set up for 4 heads per turnout. Two heads one on top of the other at the point end and one on each leg.

The top signal on the point end should be the closed route, the bottom the diverging route. The signals on the legs should indicate if the turnout is set with or against you. This kind of looks prototypical but really serves as a good way to ensure you don’t run through a switch set against you. Useful for modelling purposes if not going all the way to CTC or ABS style signalling that requires block detection.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

Thelic said:


> Most simple model signal systems are set up for 4 heads per turnout. Two heads one on top of the other at the point end and one on each leg.
> 
> The top signal on the point end should be the closed route, the bottom the diverging route. The signals on the legs should indicate if the turnout is set with or against you. This kind of looks prototypical but really serves as a good way to ensure you don’t run through a switch set against you. Useful for modelling purposes if not going all the way to CTC or ABS style signalling that requires block detection.



I'm planning on having a button board that will tell me the direction until or if I go automation. 

I got some signals and looking to use them in this layout.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

Conductorkev said:


> I'm planning on having a button board that will tell me the direction until or if I go automation.


automation requires detection as well as a bunch of intelligent logic.
a detector and less complicated logic will allow a signal to indicate APPROACH, yellow

what is a "button board"? how does it indicate direction?


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## Thelic (Jan 10, 2018)

I think he means a switchboard with LEDs to indicate turnout direction.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

gregc said:


> automation requires detection as well as a bunch of intelligent logic.
> a detector and less complicated logic will allow a signal to indicate APPROACH, yellow
> 
> what is a "button board"? how does it indicate direction?



Sorry I really should have explained what I meant by button board. I run nce dcc. The decoder for slow motion machines is called switch8 mk2. It allows 8 slow motion turnouts. The button board is a addon which will allow you to wire up Manuel switches so you can use a switch or the controller and the system will know which way the turnout is going.









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## zeethtrains (Jan 2, 2016)

DonR said:


> Before proceeding determine the voltage
> specified for the signal lamps.
> You would need a power source of that
> voltage, DC if LEDs are used.. (the 12 V DC power
> ...


Thanks don..... I figured a way to do it with gregc's drawing. I bread bordered it and it will work. I just have to mount some little terminal strips under the layout by each turnout and run another power source for the signal lights !


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