# My wife suggested that I...



## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

As some may know from other areas of the Forum, I've begun to build a layout for my 1956 Flyer set. It's a lot for my grandchildren's enjoyment, and also for me. I have quite a collection of 1/64 scale diecast vehicles that I've wanted to display in diorama form. For these reasons, I'll have two loops of AF track around a 5-foot x 7-foot town. I have about 35 HO structures that are decades old that I plan to convert to S scale.

After watching some of the videos in the new Model Railroading Hobbyist magazine with my wife last night, she asked why don't I just leave the structures alone, that the new trains are so advanced and sound like real trains, that she's sure that my old Flyer will be be replaced in the future. 

She's probably right. It looks like $200 will buy a good starter set and the new track certainly looks better. The space in the layout for the S track will allow for the smaller (26% smaller) HO track to replace mine without a lot of work. It will be a lot harder to convert the structures back to HO!

Any thoughts about running an S gauge steam locomotive around an HO gauge town? I really haven't planned on having train maintenance buildings, but I do have a tower, water tower, coaling station (that's been raised for the coal car) and a few freight stations. The train will seldom be right next to, or ever inside any of the structures, but I want to run the train that I got for Christmas in 1956 while I'm able. There aren't any S gauge clubs in my area, so I don't plan to take the layout to meetings or shows. Most people who will see it probably won't know that it's a mix of scales, but I'd like to have some pride in the work that I do. I don't have the space to have two layouts at once.

Should I take the wife's suggestion or go with my original plan? I'm open for input.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

They might look a bit small next to the trains.
But it is your RR, set some up and see how you like them.
If you use people the S will look too big by the buildings and the HO will look small by the trains.

I would think "converting" the HO would be a lot of work. 

Do what your wife likes, and if friends comment of the sizes you can blame it all on the wife.


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

Hey kix66, better listen to the wife and save the "S" scale for around the Christmas tree. The Flyer Set should be treated like the museum pieces that they are and brought out once a year. Yep $200.00 bucks will get you a decent start in HO and the grandkids will just love it. Post some pics of the Flyer set and your car collection...sounds really cool! Do you have a "Route 66" Corvet in 1/64th with a Martin Milner and George Maharis figure set?:thumbsup:


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

That sounds like good advice! I may run the AF for a while while I'm repainting the buildings and doing the landscape to get it out of my system, and then go from there.

No, I have the 62 Corvette metal body model in 1/25 scale that's shown here: http://www.kix66.net/3.html
but nothing in 1/64th.

Thanks for the input!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> They might look a bit small next to the trains.
> But it is your RR, set some up and see how you like them.
> If you use people the S will look too big by the buildings and the HO will look small by the trains.
> 
> ...


You're right big ed! It's not that I didn't believe you... I just had an urge to play with the board while I'm finishing the suspension work.








​ 







​ I don't think it works either! Time to liquidate or trade more collectables to buy an HO train set! I do like the town tough, with a park, small farm and lots of businesses. I'm going to save the plan for future consideration. For now, it's time to start scratch building structures for the S scale layout.


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Kix,
Your wife is telling you to go out and buy more trains? And you're hesitating? Buy that woman flowers, take her out for dinner [No Olive Garden etc]
Jack
ps, if not happily married I'd ask if she had a sister..:laugh:


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

JackC said:


> Kix,
> Your wife is telling you to go out and buy more trains? And you're hesitating? Buy that woman flowers, take her out for dinner [No Olive Garden etc]
> Jack
> ps, if not happily married I'd ask if she had a sister..:laugh:


Lmao. Jack is so right! Start spending before the wife has second thoughts.
You have a great wife so start listening to her 

Their is some walthers trainmen sets I believe they call it.? They come with basic DCC from the start, I would go this route if you want a set. DCC is awesome.
These sets are a little more or around 200 bucks...
From the sounds of it, your wife may not care if you have to spend alittle more to get what you want


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## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

Scale has never bothered me. I mean, hell, I run standard gauge and O gauge right next to each other without hesitation. It has always been more about creating a world than replicating the current one for me.

Of course, I also have Bugs Bunny, Winnie the Pooh, and the likes inhabiting the towns I create.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

joed2323 said:


> Lmao. Jack is so right! Start spending before the wife has second thoughts.
> You have a great wife so start listening to her
> 
> Their is some walthers trainmen sets I believe they call it.? They come with basic DCC from the start, I would go this route if you want a set. DCC is awesome.
> ...


It does seem to be a rare opportunity even though I bought her a new embroidery sewing machine for her birthday in February. It may be a good time to skip over the Walthers standard DC and get the DCC with Tsunami Sound set for $100 more! 

I like the looks of the new Proto 2000 BNSF Santa Fe diesel. I think it's an EMD GP60, but I'm an old guy who is finally getting around to learning about my 1956 American Flyer set that's been in storage for half a century. DCC would probably be a bit much right now, but I can "grow into it". Is Wathers a good set for a one-HO train enthusiast?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Why don't you sell the HO houses and continue building a S layout?


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Great to have a wife that supports your hobby, rather than one that says "Isn't that cute".


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

joed2323 said:


> Lmao. Jack is so right! Start spending before the wife has second thoughts.
> You have a great wife so start listening to her
> 
> Their is some walthers trainmen sets I believe they call it.? They come with basic DCC from the start, I would go this route if you want a set. DCC is awesome.
> ...


Been checking out the set you mentioned. It looks like it gets good reviews, except it lost points for not including more track and cars. There aren't many of these sets in stock. I did find the "Walthers - RailTech Sound & DCC Train Set -- Norfolk Southern - HO" that I can buy for under $200 right now. It lists for $225. I live 30 miles from the Virginia line, and would be okay with the NS set. 

The new Model Railroader mag has a product review of this set in the current May 2013 edition. What are the pros and cons of this set? I need to rely on the experience and knowledge of those in the forum since I'm a 60+ year old newbie. Let me know, so I don't miss my big op. Thanks!


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Carl said:


> Great to have a wife that supports your hobby, rather than one that says "Isn't that cute".


Or sees you've just received a package and says "What'ya get now Casey Jones?"

:laugh:


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Always great to have a wife that supports the hobby...mine has always been my greatest cheerleader/CFO/dispatcher...:thumbsup:

I can't forget going to another forum a couple years back to find that an online friend had come home to a smoldering pile in his backyard that used to be his rather extensive train collection. His beloved felt it was time for her to re-assert her position in his life again over what apparently had taken her place. 

I always try my level best to make sure that my first love in my house is the one I said _"I do." _to...


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

shaygetz said:


> Always great to have a wife that supports the hobby...mine has always been my greatest cheerleader/CFO/dispatcher...:thumbsup:
> 
> I can't forget going to another forum a couple years back to find that an online friend had come home to a smoldering pile in his backyard that used to be his rather extensive train collection. His beloved felt it was time for her to re-assert her position in his life again over what apparently had taken her place.
> 
> I always try my level best to make sure that my first love in my house is the one I said _"I do." _to...


Okay.. the long and the short of it.

My wife and I will be married for 40 years this October. We were best friends for a few years before tying the knot. We're still best friends today, and spending more time with each other than apart. When our kids were educated and gone and I was receiving Social Security, we weren't struggling with bills. I told her that she didn't have to work for a Jerk, and she hasn't been employed since. We spent 2011 and 2012 traveling Route 66 and visiting distant family. She agreed to my buying a classic pickup last fall to replace the classic I sold to buy the camper. She got a new serger for her birthday last year, and an embroidery machine for her birthday this year. Two new sewing machines! SO, it's my turn now!! 

I love my old Flyer set and plan to use it a lot now, but that digital sound is so cool. There's a ton of accessories in HO and N scales that I can put on my wish list for Father's Day and my Birthday. My kids are always saying that they don't know what to get me. It'll make them happy too!

Back to the set.... is it a good starter set, average, not so good, or what? I don't intend to buy lots of engines or expensive accessories. I want an HO set to include in a layout and diorama of a small town in HO scale. I already have dozens of buildings and the little accessories. It looks like more track will be cheap if it's Bachmann. Hobby Lobby gives 40% off one item every day, and EZ-Track is sold there in packages (of four pieces I think). I should go ahead and get it unless I get some input from people who don't like it or have had issues. Anybody?


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> Why don't you sell the HO houses and continue building a S layout?


Hi Big Ed. No plans to stop building the S scale layout. I'm spending about 6 hours a day working on it. I'm waiting to begin scratch building structures for the AF layout, but want to see if there are any bargains at the Roxanna, DE toy and train show in a few weeks. S scale structures are pretty scarce here. 

The HO layout would be on a smaller trainboard (4x6 or 4x8), that could be used in the guest bedroom. That's where my work table is now, that I can move when most of the structures are repainted and weathered. HO would also allow me to pick up an inexpensive Thomas engine to run for my young grandchildren when they visit. They're both wild about Thomas the Tank Engine (both under four-years).

Shaygetz, Aflyer and NuttinButFlyer have made certain that I'll be running the old Black Diamond set soon. I try to post photos on the website until I have enough to post them on the Forum layout pages. 

http://www.kix66.net/3.html


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK, I never saw your website before.
I thought you were going to just use the Flyer for Christmas time.

That was a project itself making the layout store up by the ceiling.
Good job, well done. :thumbsup:

So you are going to keep the HO structures for the HO table and build the S scale now?
Or are you going to try to transform the HO into S scale?


This is a good thread showing some techniques for building structures using what you have laying around.
Check out his work, maybe you could use some ideals from it, just calculate your S scale instead of the HO he is doing. 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=13426&highlight=scratch+build


You might get some ideals from this member too. Click on his website links in the posts.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9225

There are more on the site....somewhere.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

kix662003 said:


> Shaygetz, Aflyer and NuttinButFlyer have made certain that I'll be running the old Black Diamond set soon.


Just cleaned up and oiled four switches and the remotes to go with them...


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Heard of a posting on another website, where the modeler was saying that his layout, which he had built on his wife's grand baby piano, was now sitting on the floor. His wife had moved out and took the piano with her and reportedly left a note saying that if that is what he thought of her piano, she was out of there.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Carl said:


> Heard of a posting on another website, where the modeler was saying that his layout, which he had built on his wife's grand baby piano, was now sitting on the floor. His wife had moved out and took the piano with her and reportedly left a note saying that if that is what he thought of her piano, she was out of there.


Well, now I know how to deal with that situation if it ever comes up!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

shaygetz said:


> Just cleaned up and oiled four switches and the remotes to go with them...


PM me with your price or deal. Nothing is nailed to the Flyer board yet.

New progress photos here: http://www.kix66.net/3.html


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

kix662003 said:


> PM me with your price or deal. Nothing is nailed to the Flyer board yet.
> 
> New progress photos here: http://www.kix66.net/3.html


That is why I mentioned on Shaygetz's for sale thread for you to get them all. hwell:

Here, 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=207235&postcount=10

You would have had them already. 
Now it is lets make a deal all over. 
You never know when you are going to need more track, did you get all the track?

Oh well, I will go back and look at your progress.

Edit,
I saw all that nothing new for me to see.
I looked at it yesterday. :thumbsup:


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Kix66 I really like your garage. The train set just adds that much more to an already interesting place. Actually now that I've see the HO structures on the S set it doesn't look bad at all.
Obviously your grandson is thrilled with the trains. Anything that will put that look on a kids face is worth it's weight in gold.
I can see from your table raising apparatus design that your a very meticulous man. That's good and will come in handy when building your layout either in the air or under the bed. Your photography is excellent and your explanations clear and concise. I look forward to many more postings from you and of course we are all looking forward to seeing your layout building and techniques. It's a pleasure to have you with us. Pete


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> That is why I mentioned on Shaygetz's for sale thread for you to get them all. hwell:
> 
> Here,
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=207235&postcount=10
> ...


I admit... you were/are right! I didn't have anything within reach that Shay was wanting to trade for, and I was happy to finally dig something out that he would like. Yes, he sent all the pieces, individually wrapped in bubble wrap and in plastic storage bags the very same day we made the deal. It is all as he described, and he offered to replace any piece of track that turned out to be bad. What a guy! Since then, I bought a transformer that will allow more powered accessories. I should be ready now!

I think I'll put some of the collectable stuff that I've accumulated on a page of my website. I can use it for trading or selling in the forum with any member who has a good history posted or Craigslist. I've even collected the State Dept's 'Wanted' matchbooks with photos on them... Sadam, Bin Ladin, etc! I have Diecast models, rare Datsun 280ZX items, art instruction books, glass acid etching items, a brand new 4-channel RC helicopter with lots of spare parts, and lots of things I can't even think of. I know Shay will be more than fair on his end, and if I don't have anything that he wants, perhaps I can do a 3-way trade or just put a Postal Money order in the mail and pay shipping.

So, in the end... you were right!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

norgale said:


> Kix66 I really like your garage. The train set just adds that much more to an already interesting place. Actually now that I've see the HO structures on the S set it doesn't look bad at all.
> Obviously your grandson is thrilled with the trains. Anything that will put that look on a kids face is worth it's weight in gold.
> I can see from your table raising apparatus design that your a very meticulous man. That's good and will come in handy when building your layout either in the air or under the bed. Your photography is excellent and your explanations clear and concise. I look forward to many more postings from you and of course we are all looking forward to seeing your layout building and techniques. It's a pleasure to have you with us. Pete


Thanks for all the compliments! I'm trying to do things right, and do love the smiles and excitement that running the train generates. The group on this forum is great, and I look forward to reading all the posts and looking at the amazing things that others have done. I certainly feel welcome here, and I'm glad that so many talented and knowledgeable people are all here in one place.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Guess I'll start packin' it up...we'll figure something out.:thumbsup:


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

shaygetz said:


> Guess I'll start packin' it up...we'll figure something out.:thumbsup:


I'll start making my list of things that I'd like trade or sell. I've gotta have something that you want! Americans are called Collectors by other nations, and I think they're correct. 

Check the second page of my website in a couple of days and I should have some items pictured. PM me with some things that you or your kids may like.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

kix662003 said:


> I'll start making my list of things that I'd like trade or sell. I've gotta have something that you want! Americans are called Collectors by other nations, and I think they're correct.
> 
> Check the second page of my website in a couple of days and I should have some items pictured. PM me with some things that you or your kids may like.


Maryland?

How much do you pay?
Check it out, do you know about this?


http://politicaloutcast.com/2013/04/epa-mandates-rain-tax-for-maryland-residents/


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> Maryland?
> 
> How much do you pay?
> Check it out, do you know about this?
> ...


Unfortunately, I do. The metro areas get hit the hardest. We try not to dwell on it, though, because it's a real problem. Last time we paid a flush tax for three years in a row. I really don't keep up with what we pay out anymore. The MD Senate just raised our State tax on gasoline that will continue to increase for the next three years. Maryland isn't a commonwealth, but it's become a major player in the land of taxes. I really wonder how much goes toward the Bay effort and how much funds our Governor's world travels for one reason or another. I believe Marylander's pay the highest property taxes now, beating California and Hawaii. Ouch!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

shaygetz said:


> Guess I'll start packin' it up...we'll figure something out.:thumbsup:


I found something that may interest you, Shaygetz. I posted it on the Member to Member page. Let me know.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

kix662003 said:


> Unfortunately, I do. The metro areas get hit the hardest. We try not to dwell on it, though, because it's a real problem. Last time we paid a flush tax for three years in a row. I really don't keep up with what we pay out anymore. The MD Senate just raised our State tax on gasoline that will continue to increase for the next three years. Maryland isn't a commonwealth, but it's become a major player in the land of taxes. I really wonder how much goes toward the Bay effort and how much funds our Governor's world travels for one reason or another. I believe Marylander's pay the highest property taxes now, beating California and Hawaii. Ouch!


You notice that government buildings are exempt from paying it.
I think we in Jersey are the highest property tax.

I found this, Maryland is not on the list,

The Tax Foundation found that homeowners in these states paid the most in property taxes compared to home value. The percentages represent the percentage of home value that homeowners pay in property taxes.

New Jersey - 1.89%
New Hampshire - 1.86%
Texas - 1.81%
Wisconsin - 1.76%
Nebraska - 1.70%
Illinois - 1.73%
Connecticut - 1.63%
Michigan - 1.62%
Vermont - 1.59%
North Dakota - 1.42%


But I did hear something just last week about the property taxes rising in Maryland.

The least tax?


Louisiana - 0.18%
Hawaii - 0.26%
Alabama - 0.33%
Delaware - 0.43%
West Virginia - 0.49%
South Carolina - 0.50%
Arkansas - 0.52%
Mississippi - 0.52%
New Mexico - 0.55%
Wyoming - 0.58%


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> You notice that government buildings are exempt from paying it.
> I think we in Jersey are the highest property tax.
> 
> I found this, Maryland is not on the list,
> ...


You've got the numbers right. I just checked. We were thinking of moving to another State where our retirement income would buy the most. I don't remember if it was Sperling's Best Places, AARP or another relocation site that gave me that impression, if not wrong information. I always thought that NJ and States just north of Jersey paid the most. I never went back and checked the info because we decided that we didn't want to move away from our support network and two sons who live in Delaware. I'll look and see if I can find what I was looking at. It wasn't that long ago.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Spent the afternoon removing the square tubing on the garage ceiling to install the longer tubing I picked up this morning. What a mess! I was really ticked at the dummy that used a subfloor stapler to fasten the rolls of fiberglass insulation on the ceiling! How could anybody be so lazy or stupid? I was livid, as I continued to pry 2" staples out of old wood. But being the nice guy that I am, I forgave myself when I calmed down. The electric winch can now slide right above the lift cable and pull it straight up.

I discovered today that anything that isn't properly nailed, screwed down or fastened securely will demand immediate attention when a cable on pulley or sheave is attached to it. I think I spent as much time repairing and reinforcing the lower frame of the woodworking bench than I did changing the steel tube. Of course every change in routing results in changing the height of the lift. The single pull cable suddenly became 16 inches too long, and the board wouldn't lift to the ceiling. If I removed the 16 inches, I wouldn't have enough length to set the trainboard down on the table. The solution? Just cut a chunk out of the workbench and make it ugly. I'm glad that I have several routers and lots of bits to dress the notch! Kinda like George Wilson using Chiclets gum to repair his upper denture in Dennis the Menace... no one will notice. Sure.

The good news is that the lift is now working... the utility trailer (that I've tripped over and banged my shins on numerous times each day) is now back outside... and I only need to do some final adjustments and tune the speed of the lift tomorrow. No more standing on the ladder drilling holes overhead in 3/16" steel! It had me feeling my age and wishing for Cortisone.

The bad news is that my crazy idea that I could piggyback two layouts overhead if I ever needed to won't work. If both layouts have any scenery at all, they would be too low, and perhaps too heavy for the pulleys. I'll be thinking about another way while I'm busy building and running the train on the S scale layout. 

Sorry, no new photos today. Everything still looks the same as the last photos, except the board goes up and down now. I shot a short video, but the dummy that installs bats of insulation with a flooring stapler doesn't have any idea how or where to post it yet.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

The trainboard suspension work is complete, and can be seen here: http://www.kix66.net/3.html

The only question now is.... Honey, does this new board make my train look big?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

They are N scale, right?


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

I wish. It's a toy that someone gave me. Looks real enough, but just dummies like me!


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## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Hey keep after it, the thrill of this hobby is solving the impossible.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It almost looks like an N scale train.
It has to be close to N scale size then? 

It does make the table look big. :thumbsup:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Kix, impressive, I thought about something similar but chickened out at the end. Hope it works well. Have fun!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> OK, I never saw your website before.
> I thought you were going to just use the Flyer for Christmas time.
> 
> That was a project itself making the layout store up by the ceiling.
> ...


Big Ed, I delayed in answering because I'm not sure what I will do now. I will keep the Flyer track flat on the board for certain. I've never built or run a train in a rail yard, but if my number of switches and pieces of track increases with the trade with Shaygetz, a rail yard may be an option. I've decided not to hack the HO structures and keep restoring and weathering them. Depending on what I do on the S layout, I may still be able to build a smaller HO layout and put it on top of the S layout when I need it out of the way or hang it under the S layout. Having the lift in place and working now, these thoughts are all being considered. I've heard from some members that kits are not great, and some don't like the sounds with DCC. I'd like more thoughts on the digital sound.

The info on taxes in my memory was flawed. It came from a conversation with a young man who recently earned his MBA. The discussion was on taxes in the area. I took it that he was saying "Maryland", when others knew that he meant the Atlantic coastal States in this area. While others were thinking about Virginia and north, I was thinking Maryland. Like I said before, I didn't really give it more thought or check the info, which I should have before I made a statement. Sorry, but your information is correct. 

I do know that new gun laws, definitions of marriage and increased taxes in Maryland are in our daily news. A lot of them aren't fair to the elderly, poor or disabled, and aren't accord to my way of thinking. There are certainly other things that could be taxed that wouldn't effect the elderly or working poor, but the Governor and State Reps have their own agendas and supporters. I try to put it out of my mind. Maryland has been home for most of my life, but I'd be looking elsewhere if I were a younger man. None of our children live in Maryland.

Our fees to motor vehicles seems a bit high in Maryland, but I haven't looked at other States nearby. My little HHR panel costs $180 for tags that are good for two years. Utility trailers are $55 for two years. A vehicle title is $100. We pay 6% tax on cars, new or used. Gasoline taxes are in the news, and I already have to pay .40 more a gallon for ethanol-free to run the 327 engine in the Caballero. When we visit our daughter in east Tennessee, we notice that gasoline, utilities and auto expenses are a lot less. They, too, live in a tourist/vacation area like I do. My wife says not to let things get me upset, that I already have high blood pressure, so I just pay the bills.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

I'm new at posting videos, here or anywhere, but here is my first attempt:

This was the test of the pulleys and sheaves using twine:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/Apr%2012%20First%20Try%20with%20Twine.MP4

This it the first lift using cables. It shows where I need to make adjustments:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/Apr 15 First Day Working Lift.MP4

My wife said that she would video me using the final lift.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks great, I think I'd slow it down as you described, the jerks might move stuff around.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Dr. Frankenstein would be quite proud!!!


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Hmm sound only, no video. Gotta fix something but what?


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

kix -- Try posting videos to youtube.com. It's free to register for an account and I think everyone can access it without issues.

As far as the S-Scale v. HO-Scale route, you do what your heart tells you to do. If you ask eveyone for their opinions, you'll get everyone's opinion -- all different.

There are S-Scale structure kits available online in various hobby sites. Doug Peck @ Port Lines also has some on his site. But for my own desire, I'm looking forward to constructing my own from styrene, balsa and other hobby raw materials. I've seen people build some super structures from what I normally toss out in the trash, so the raw material supply may be right there under your nose. You just have to think outside the box. And from what I've seen of your workmanship, that seems to be a natural for you.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Sorry some folks are having issues viewing the videos. They're in my public dropbox folder but they're Mp4 and WMV format. Using VLC (works better than anything else on Windows 8) on this end. I can convert them and repost. There are 3 more in the S Scale section. VLC is a great all-in-one media player that's free for the downloading for any who want one player for any format or region.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

All the videos in WMV format:

The week that I dragged the train box out after 26 years: 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/American Flyer Fun Feb 26, 2013 WMV.wmv

April Fool's Day planning a track layout:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/April Fool Flyer Run WMV.wmv

Testing the suspension design with twine:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/Apr 12 First Try with Twine WMV.wmv

First trainboard lift with cables attached:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/Apr 15 First Day Working Lift WMV.wmv

Today, showing how easy it is to "put the layout away":

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/Honey... WMV.wmv

Hopefully now everyone can watch the videos on their PC.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Big Ed, I delayed in answering because I'm not sure what I will do now. I will keep the Flyer track flat on the board for certain. I've never built or run a train in a rail yard, but if my number of switches and pieces of track increases with the trade with Shaygetz, a rail yard may be an option. I've decided not to hack the HO structures and keep restoring and weathering them. Depending on what I do on the S layout, I may still be able to build a smaller HO layout and put it on top of the S layout when I need it out of the way or hang it under the S layout. Having the lift in place and working now, these thoughts are all being considered. I've heard from some members that kits are not great, and some don't like the sounds with DCC. I'd like more thoughts on the digital sound.

OK, I think keeping the HO buildings as is, is a good ideal.

Enough about depressing taxes, I got to keep my blood pressure down too. 

The Eastern Shore is a nice area, I am like you, I will probably remain in NJ.
Born and raised here, though I have seen a lot of other states, I will probably stay right here. hwell:
Unless I hit the big one. 



Every state has good and bad points.




Enough said, back to trains.

Edit,
I screwed up quoting you, so I just made it all blue.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

No problem. I've been in the red. I've been in the black. I've been in the mud. I've been in the you-know-what... and now I'm in the blue. Variety is the spice of life they say.

I'm pretty sure that I can scratch-build the structures for the S scale. We'll see.

In one the last video, she videoed the little train by a ruler. I don't have any N or Z scale, so I don't know if it's one of those or not. There's a ruler and a quarter for size comparison. Walther's has a scale comparison, but all I have presently is the American Flyer.

Should get the box from Shaygetz soon, and I can begin to lay out the track and play a little. I'm anxious to try out the "new" transformer too.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

kix662003 said:


> In one the last video, she videoed the little train by a ruler. I don't have any N or Z scale, so I don't know if it's one of those or not. There's a ruler and a quarter for size comparison. Walther's has a scale comparison, but all I have presently is the American Flyer.


Those little trains were a premium given out by Reader's Digest for subscriptions. They are regularly sold on eBay as N scale and dummy equipment but they are neither. While I have made several of the cars operate with a lot of work for some giggles, and I know of at least one of those engines having been powered by an equally tenacious fellow modeler, they are best left on a shelf somewhere to be admired.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

shaygetz said:


> Those little trains were a premium given out by Reader's Digest for subscriptions. They are regularly sold on eBay as N scale and dummy equipment but they are neither. While I have made several of the cars operate with a lot of work for some giggles, and I know of at least one of those engines having been powered by an equally tenacious fellow modeler, they are best left on a shelf somewhere to be admired.


Thanks for the info! PM sent,


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Updated progress photos here: http://www.kix66.net/3.html

As stated on the site, I've decided to build layouts on two levels; the S gauge above and the HO gauge below. When looking at photos taken in Colorado, Utah and Arizona of the canyons, I realized that the same perspective can be used on a 30-inch high trainboard that will normally be viewed while standing. The larger train, which is closer to the viewer, will look (and be) larger than the train running at a lower level. It's a plan that I can live with, and not unusual when viewing club photos or members layouts that are built in levels. Now, I need to thinking what to buy.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Progress photos posted here.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Awesome stuff...:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is coming along nicely. :thumbsup:
I like the way it raises and is out of the way when your not using it.

You might have mentioned this, how much weight is your hoisting system rated for?

What would you think would be your weakest link on the setup? 
The cable strength?
I think you mentioned on the motor lifting capacity already.

I will go back and reread your whole blog when I get the chance, I have no time right now.
I just wanted to stop in and give a :thumbsup:.

Also....THAT KID SURE LOOKS HAPPY! :thumbsup:
Are you Choo Choo Pop Pop yet?


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> That is coming along nicely. :thumbsup:
> I like the way it raises and is out of the way when your not using it.
> 
> You might have mentioned this, how much weight is your hoisting system rated for?
> ...


Everything is rated for at least 400 pounds. Cables are stainless steel. I don't think that I've found a weak link yet. I needed to paint a board before covering it with foamboard. It's in the very back of the layout between the levels. How could I reach the area without putting the board on the floor?








With the front of the board tilted back, I simply reached down and painted the vertical board. The portion that I painted in the white here:








With two defects in my spine from birth, this would have been impossible for me and hard for anyone else to do without help handling the 6x8 board.
I haven't found anything that I've given up to hang the board yet. No regrets or afterthoughts so far. I reduced the head space from 81" to 74.5" to be able to mount the old trestle bridge, and there are few people over 6'2" in the family or network of friends. I have 2" from bridge top to ceiling. 


Sounds like you know the choo choo Pop Pop deal! There's nothing like having grandkids!
Thanks for the thumbs up.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Just get a Low Clearance sign and hang it up.
I am 6' 4" with a baseball hat maybe 6'5", maybe a detour sign with an arrow would be better for someone tall.
Add some blinking yellow lights.

400lbs......Are you keeping some kind of weight records?
I guess that includes the table too, all the trains and stuff will add up.
Last thing you want is for it to come crashing down.

Yes, the kid looks happier then happy. :thumbsup: 
I bet if you let him work the throttle that smile would extend way above his ears if that is possible. :laugh:


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Well, we know why you're BIG Ed now. When you stop by someday, you won't have a problem. The 10 foot ceiling drops down right where the hoist is located and the trainboard begins. I did a crude clearance when I lowered the board....








The water pipe and outlet for the garage door opener are at the high part. The ceiling drops to 8 feet because there's an attic in that half. The hoist hangs on 3 2x12s that are screwed together and supported by steel gussets on both sides. I agree with making sure it doesn't fall. I may have my Caballero under the trainboard. Then, I'd really, really be upset!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Big Ed is right... I never did post anything about the hoist. There are several PDF files on the same page. I will caution that while others (Shop Fox in Taiwan and Harbor Freight or General Machine in China) market similar looking hoists, not all are created equal. Grizzly has a very extensive showroom and warehouse in central PA and stands behind the products that they sell. Their people are knowledgeable and have a wide variety of products to recommend from. Their catalogs are free for asking and have lots of good stuff in them.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is a good price I like the 779 better.
Motor size: 1-1/4 HP 110V
Capacity single line: 440 lbs.
Capacity double line: 880 lbs.
Line feed: 38 Ft/Min.

Double the weight rating and more HP. :thumbsup:


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> That is a good price I like the 779 better.
> Motor size: 1-1/4 HP 110V
> Capacity single line: 440 lbs.
> Capacity double line: 880 lbs.
> ...


I looked at the larger hoist, but knew that I'd be tempted to hook up more weight than the structure can support, or even worse... one of my sons would. Sure makes it easy to service the lawn tractor, and a higher capacity hoist in the right garage would be even more useful. It's really turned out to be a good investment, and a back saver.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Man, carving foam is not my thing! I'm trying to whittle out something that looks like the cuts into the Limestone. We saw enough of these scenes going from Maryland to California last Summer. I must be doing something wrong. Acrylic paint seems to sink in and all but disappear. Using an airbrush is simple enough, but having to brush paint into all the cuts and between the layers of "rock" is getting me down. I tried using flat latex wall paint which wasn't any better and took two days to dry. I've posted a photo below of what I've done so far. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? 









Here's another with the new toy that I'd like to use in the layout.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Sorry if it sounded like I was complaining. The guys who post videos on YouTube make it look so easy. The carving part is a breeze, but I didn't know about the painting. 

I finished brush painting all the deep cuts and undersides of the 'rock' today. The right side looks as funky as the left side now, Tomorrow, I'll pick the airbrush back up and have a little fun. I've learned to start painting with the darkest color in the plan, and work up to the lightest color. I think I may try using a trim roller instead of a foam brush for the Limestone rock faces, and then put the highlights on with a fan brush. I'll try a post a photo of my progress.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

It looks like you are using the "pink" extruded foam so many others suggest. I'm not sure about the proper paints as I've forgotten what they said in those how-to's. But I know certain types of paint didn't do well or even ate into the foam when used. Best to try to find those threads and be sure you are using the correct paints for this type of foam. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the problem might be. For the moment though, it looks pretty good. It might look even better when you add more colors or highlights to it. Nobody ever said model railroading work was a breeze to accomplish. Take your time.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I never painted pink foam, but I would say it will soak in a lot, maybe you should have gave it more coats of the base paint you used before you started painting the details?

It doesn't look bad from far away.
I mean what we are seeing from your pictures.

The color is not uniform in your pictures?
Are you done with it? It looks more dark in spots.
Maybe you need more dark in it?

I picked up a tip in my viewing at lunch my old RR magazines I reread that I want to try.
It says to run a small solder iron to burn in your lines.
It says to do it somewhere that is well ventilated, and watch the solder iron as it will burn the foam rather quickly.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I had problems with that stuff too. But it looks as if you figured it out because the photo on your Web site looks great. It looks toned down a bit. That's the good thing about painting mountains, if you screw up the first try is a good base coat! I did a rocky type ledge also, very different from yours. I plastered over the foam, and let some watered down earth tones run down the crevices. When I didn't like it I bought some stone texture spray paint. It came out good enough for me. I also liked carving the board with a multitool. It went fast and made a mess.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Quick pic of mine, yours came out great.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Wow! You did a great job! Some of my painting troubles could have been because I used an earth-tone colored latex paint. I should have bought dark gray for Limestone so the deep cuts and holes would have been done on the first coat. The color I used would have worked fine in your layout. I had trouble putting acrylic craft paint over the latex. It's too thin, both by hand or airbrush. After five or six sessions of putting layers upon layers to give it dimension, it looks good up close. My old car looks good from ten feet, but not up close. I don't want ten feet scenery!

I like your colors and rock formations. Very realistic. Thanks for sharing!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> I never painted pink foam, but I would say it will soak in a lot, maybe you should have gave it more coats of the base paint you used before you started painting the details?
> 
> It doesn't look bad from far away.
> I mean what we are seeing from your pictures.
> ...


No, it's not finished yet. I hand painted some deep cuts with flat black to make sure there's no pink to show through. It seems that a day or two later, shades of pink reappear. The foam will be cut twice after the HO train gets here... once about halfway up where one HO track will run on top of the limestone wall, and after the pieces are separated, the top part will be cut again to make it a lot thinner. I want it to look like a single mountainside with the same type of cuts below the track and beside the track. The wall is on hold until after the cuts are made and I see what needs to be touched up and then airbrush the highlights.

I want to try the soldering pen to burn lines. I'd like to make stone faced tunnel portals, and the iron should work great to burn the mortar joints. The Spanish ladies on YouTube that cut the blocks just use their knife and do a great job. If the iron doesn't look good, that's what I'll do.

When the lower level is in place, and I finally get to finish to top level of the layout, I'm going to use plywood, screen and quick set drywall compound like Concrete Pumper did. I like the his work on the mining layout. It would have worked for a blizzard layout too, especially with the digger he had on the hill. I hope he does another layout and posts photos. I plan to have a mountain spring that extends over both levels if the track plan allows. 

Sorry for the delay in replying. I was handed a box that was too heavy for my spine earlier in the week, and have been spending equal day-parts laying on a heating pad and in the recliner. No layout work for a bit, but I can catch up on my reading and participate here in the group.


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

i have found the paint that does not eat at the pink foam.
its in home depot, it is called rust-oleum PAINTER"S TOUCH 2X paint & primer. it works i have tried it.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

wingnut163 said:


> i have found the paint that does not eat at the pink foam.
> its in home depot, it is called rust-oleum PAINTER"S TOUCH 2X paint & primer. it works i have tried it.


Thanks! It's worth a try, and if it works for you, it should work for me. I went out and scrounged some thick blue foam because I'm reluctant to use the pink again. I'll pick up some of the paint soon.


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

i think the pink is the same as the blue, just different stores.

they had a BUNCH of different colors.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Do the different colors mean anything? Pete


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

norgale said:


> Do the different colors mean anything? Pete


From what I can find out, the color is part of brand recognition. Seems like that pink panther character was involved. The manufacturing processes seem to be the same (from what I can see). I read in Model Railroader Magazine (Pg. 24; May 2013) that the pros have trouble with paint allowing show through when they were using Sculptamold to re-do their rock outcroppings. I guess it's just something to be expected. They let their latex paint dry for 24 hours before applying any scenery. I guess it's so they can be sure that nothing will show through the painted area. I'm going to use a different paint from now on, but I doubt brand will matter. Type of paint, application method and pressure probably make the biggest difference. I may also use pink foam for scenery with earth tones and blue for the stone or gravel scenery. Unless I dip the foam board into the paint or drench the foam in paint, I'm fairly certain that more than one coat will be needed for deep cuts. A brick or block design made using a sharp pencil, woodburning pen or scalpel shouldn't be a problem.My wall has cuts an inch deep in a few areas and gave me trouble using an Badger airbrush set to deliver.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Progress has been slow, but some updates have been posted here.

There is also an Any Rail rendering of my thoughts for a small HO layout in the house. If all goes well, this will allow me to have the suspended Flyer layout in the garage/shop and one inside. I'm new at designing track plans, and put the one shown on the website together to use a lot of the structures and accessories that I already have. Many of them are shown on the site. I'm open to suggestions. The train set is due to ship on June 10th according to Walthers. I'm using the Atlas 100 track and not the Bachmann steel EZ track that comes with the DCC set. I have most of the track pieces shown in the drawing, but not the switches and switch machines.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Kix, it looks better then my pencil on paper plans, when I actually put down the track on the layout nothing matches up. There's something to be said in having actual scale in a plan!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

sjm9911 said:


> Kix, it looks better then my pencil on paper plans, when I actually put down the track on the layout nothing matches up. There's something to be said in having actual scale in a plan!


I know what you're saying. When I tried to make a nice drawing of my Flyer layout on the same program, it says that it won't work. I just grin when I turn the transformer on and run the train! The software does look a lot better than my hand drawings too. It's nice that text and a ruler can be inserted in the track plan. I cheated a bit and modified a layout that I found online.


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

*Important!!!!!!!!*



wingnut163 said:


> i have found the paint that does not eat at the pink foam.
> its in home depot, it is called rust-oleum PAINTER"S TOUCH 2X paint & primer. it works i have tried it.



IMPORTANT:
i know i said this paint did not eat the pink foam. WELL THE BLACK DID NOT EAT IT. BUT I JUST SPRAYED A CAR AND USED THA FOAM AS A TABLE. I USED YELLOW AND IT DIDEAT THE FOAM.
ITOMARROW I WILL TRY ALL THE COLORS I HAVE AND SEE WHATS WHAT!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Wingnut, I read somewhere that it's the propellant that eats the foam, if sprayed from far enough away the foam should be Ok. This is untested by me but since you're going to be testing I thought this could be helpful.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

wingnut163 said:


> IMPORTANT:
> i know i said this paint did not eat the pink foam. WELL THE BLACK DID NOT EAT IT. BUT I JUST SPRAYED A CAR AND USED THA FOAM AS A TABLE. I USED YELLOW AND IT DIDEAT THE FOAM.
> ITOMARROW I WILL TRY ALL THE COLORS I HAVE AND SEE WHATS WHAT!


Thanks for the heads up! I haven't been able to drive for a couple weeks so I didn't pick up any to try yet. I have been searching the internet and postings on painting foam. A lot to read and I want to try some techniques that others have used and liked. I'll post updates as I do. I got my foam cut to the right sizes yesterday without destroying anything. Pretty happy about that. At least the paint just ate your foam table and not the car!


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

well they did it to me real good. the people at home depot said it did not eat the foam.

i tried 10 cans and they all did to different degrease. the black did but very little.

sjm9911 may be right, I'll have to gt another piece and try it from a distance.

up dates to follow.


the train took all night to dry, HA, they say fast drying.


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

big ed said:


> Just get a Low Clearance sign and hang it up.
> I am 6' 4" with a baseball hat maybe 6'5", maybe a detour sign with an arrow would be better for someone tall.
> Add some blinking yellow lights.
> 
> ...


I weighed the suspended layout today... 147 pounds. No scenery yet, but everything else for the layout was on the board. The tables isn't included. It sits on the garage floor, and I can fold the legs and get it out of the way when the train board is raised (still 6'8" under clearance so far). Somehow, I think my grandson (now 19 months old) knows I'm working on "our" layout. Whenever my daughter calls, he runs over and kisses the phone when he hears my voice. We sure made a connection while running an old model train. He makes all the work on having a layout available when he visits next worthwhile.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

kix662003 said:


> I think my grandson (now 19 months old) knows I'm working on "our" layout. Whenever my daughter calls, he runs over and kisses the phone when he hears my voice. We sure made a connection while running an old model train. He makes all the work on having a layout available when he visits next worthwhile.


Wonderful! From one generation to another! :thumbsup:


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