# The Steely Railroad - Diesel Transport



## EBrown (5 mo ago)

I'm finally nearing the build-stages of my layout, and this is the final structural design.

When I start roughing the track in it may be adjusted slightly, but until then I'm currently going with what I have here.

First, there are three stages to the layout: the _Jackson Yard_, the _Morrison Mine_, and the _Jefferson Docks_. There's a river between _Jackson Yard_ and _Jefferson Docks_ which serves as a scenery break, as a prototypical design of this would have dozens of miles between the two, but I only have about a foot and a half. The tunnel at the bottom-left will be open (sorta) on the back, so that I can pull any derailments out. The mountain will be hollow and built primarily out of foam.

From a technical standpoint: the dark red sections are reverse loops. _Morrison Mine_ is one big reverse loop as the only place polarity can change is the top-left most turnout, so trains that aren't changing direction should be able to cross both north-west curves without issue.

----

_Morrison Mine_ is located at the base of a mountain, and has both a rock quarry and a coal mine.

_Jefferson Docks_ is a shipping/receiving intermodal dock transfer, bringing in and sending out cargo by ship. There are also industrial facilities for processing the raw coal from _Morrison Mine_.

_Jackson Yard_ is an intermodal shipping/receiving facility that also happens to manufacture (as well as service and re-certify) rail cars. _Jefferson Docks_ will often deliver raw steel and materials for _Jackson Yard_. If _Morrison Mine_ is sending goods out to the neighboring freight rail (orange, also serves as a very short programming track, this may be expanded later) then _Jackson Yard _can also facilitate the transfer.

The primary mover is Norfolk Southern, CSX often drops and pulls intermodals, and the occasional CN engine will come through for freight car pickup. _Jackson Yard_ also holds the MOW station for the local rail system, having contracted to maintain and operate the entire platform up to and including the demarcation point for the larger rail movers.

Please note that through-traffic in _Morrison Mine_ is banned. This was the result of a collaborative decision between the primary mover and MOW operators after a collapse of part of the mountain due to mining explosives that destroyed the exit tracks from the mine control area. Since then, the tunnel was constructed to divert primary freight traffic off of the highly-active mine operation. Violators of the posted regulations will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Safety is *everyone's* priority.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Very interesting layout. You have a lot of fun operating
involved...both continuous running and switching.

I don't understand what you call a reverse loop in
Red in the upper middle. It's just a short connecting
track. 

Don


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

DonR said:


> Very interesting layout. You have a lot of fun operating
> involved...both continuous running and switching.
> 
> I don't understand what you call a reverse loop in
> ...


Yeah, I call them "Reverse Loops", but two of them are just "Reverse Connections".

I marked them all red to remind myself that there are possible polarity changes for each position, and I have to be mindful when I wire them up.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You would need reverse loop controllers to feed the track
on only the two red colored actual loops. The short red section
would take regular bus power.

Don


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

This is going to be awesome !


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Hi Don,

Doesn't the short red line in the center top also create a reversing loop in addition to the one in the bottom right? I think I see the need for 3 reversing modules.


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> Hi Don,
> 
> Doesn't the short red line in the center top also create a reversing loop in addition to the one in the bottom right? I think I see the need for 3 reversing modules.


That was what my math said as well.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I see three reverse loops, as you have maked!


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

“Doesn't the short red line in the center top also create a reversing loop in addition to the one in the bottom right? I think I see the need for 3 reversing modules.” 


Jeff, 
I see it as a reverse loop as well. Agree also with the need for three modules.


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

EBrown, 
I like the track plan well enough indeed. With a few minor changes for my own personal tastes/functions were I to build it in H0 scale. I do like the three seperate ways to reverse train direction without WYEs, run around tracks, or a turntable. Good plan, Easy running there.
32 turnouts though. All brand new. What is the average price for a Peco, N gauge turnout minus the electrical automation cost these days? $28 each? $900.00 + tx & shipping.
Add another 60% or more of that for motor automation and devices to connect to your computerized automation hopes.
$1,500.00+ total at least. OUCH. 🤔😳😂 
At least flex track is reasonably cheap-lol. Make your own EOL bumpers too. 
Learn to solder and, buy a well stocked dremel tool kit. Going to need a track razor saw, and/or a set of Xuron track nippers too. We’ll all of course help you decide on the other tools you will need as things progress for you.

Again. I do like this plan much more than what I’ve seen so far from you. Bravo brother.

KW62


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

kilowatt62 said:


> EBrown,
> I like the track plan well enough indeed. With a few minor changes for my own personal tastes/functions were I to build it in H0 scale. I do like the three seperate ways to reverse train direction without WYEs, run around tracks, or a turntable. Good plan, Easy running there.
> 32 turnouts though. All brand new. What is the average price for a Peco, N gauge turnout minus the electrical automation cost these days? $28 each? $900.00 + tx & shipping.
> Add another 60% or more of that for motor automation and devices to connect to your computerized automation hopes.
> ...


My count shows 38 active turnouts right now, which is down from around 45 before. The good news is I have a plan to build it in stages: _Jackson Yard_ is the first section to be built, and even then I'm not building the inner yard first, just the loop-arounds. For that I need 12 turnouts to start, 6 SL-396, and 6 SL-395. From there, I'm going to add the cross through the yard, which is 4 turnouts (3 SL-396, 1 SL-395), then the first yard siding (1 more SL-396), after that I want to build the rest of the main loop, which is 9 more SL-395 and 4 more SL-396. At that point I'll build the MOW/Diesel/Caboose storage areas, which I only need 1 SL-396 and 2 SL-395's for the Diesel area. Lastly, I'll finish the yard which is 3 SL-396's and 2 SL-395's. By building the stages as I am, it limits how many turnouts I need to buy at once, which makes it feel much less expensive.

Overall, based on the prices I've found, I estimate around $1250 for the entire track itself. The servo's I'm going to use are cheap, around $6/each if I buy in bulk, so I'm looking at $240 there. In total, excluding taxes and shipping, all the primary track elements (track, turnouts, servo's for the turnouts) should be around $1500. Obviously that's before I add a DCC controller, trains, cars, etc. I have a startup-budget of just under $1600 right now, and I have around $250-350/mo to add to that budget. The current list of parts I plan to buy for the first round is around $1100 at the moment (with tax and shipping), but the first round also includes a DCC controller, one DCC-equipped engine, one DCC-ready engine + decoder for it, and an 8-pack of rolling stock cars. I may choose different cars, I'm not super thrilled about the ones I have selected, so I may end up around $1250 or so for round 1.

I have an air die grinder and a rotary tool already, which I figure I can use a cut-off wheel in either to cut the rails. I may get a real Dremel kit at some point, as I don't have many of the wheels right now, I have to buy them as needed. I also have a soldering iron and dual-heat soldering gun. I may want rail nippers at some point, I don't have any cutters I would trust to not do damage to the track.

Of course, I'm doing my final prep to order, and Midwest _had_ 24-packs of insulated joiners in stock for a solid price, but now they're out of that and the Atlas 2500 flex-track. So, since that's that I guess I'll switch to Peco flex across the board. I don't need the nail holes the Atlas track offers, and since I was already going to use a small section of Peco flex-track coming off the diverging frog-end of each turnout, I'll just do Peco across the board.

I also shifted a few things around (really minor changes). The class-1 line coming into _Jackson Yard_ has been lengthened, it looks a bit funny but it's primarily so that I can build a slightly longer car coming in from "outside". The yard storage at _Jackson Yard_ has also been moved a bit further from the main lines. _Jefferson Docks_ has been moved further north, to generate more space for dock-work facilities. Lastly, the tunnel at _Morrison Mine_ has been slightly extended, mostly because I'm using an entire piece of Peco flex for the 45-degree curves, so I shrank the straight-away inside the tunnel and added more curve into them. I'm kinda bummed those two curves are hidden by the tunnel, because they're nice 45" radii curves.

The final note is I've scabbed in some roadway, these are just to play with where truck traffic might run, unsure how they're actually play out yet.


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

Just when I think I'm done I find more to tweak...

I played with a lot of curves, and the entire dock area. It looked nice, but the roadway didn't fit well. Additionally, I didn't like that _all_ of the smooth curves were hidden in the tunnel, I wanted more wide curves. Really I wanted the mainline to "feel" fast, like a train could go top-speed down it with no issues.

This new design _effectively_ turns the mainline into a diverging route, coming north out of the west-side of _Jackson Yard_ trains can travel down the reverse loop or down the standard mainline, they then rejoin at the reverse loop northwest of _Morrison Mine_, and there are two divergences there. All of the Main Line divergencies have been replaced with 8 degree turnouts instead of 14 degree. The 14's are effectively 18" radii, the 8's are effectively 36" radii. The mainline consists entirely of 20+" curves, with the exception of the two ends: which are 17" -> 16" -> 17" eased curves now. This makes the mainline a lot smoother, and also gives it a much nicer feel I think. I may still try to push both mainline routes closer at the top-left corner so I can get ride of the double-crossing and make it a single crossing gate over both lines.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You are right. I went back and restudied that short 'red' 
section...it does create the need for an 'reverse loop'
controller. So that does make it three.

Don


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I would make two changes to rail gap locations. First, on the right I’d move the rail gap in the middle to the turnout near the wall. 
On the left, I don’t see a need to have the full area of track isolated. You could just gap the rail at the end of the bridge near the 180 curve, and at the two as depicted turnout gaps. Unless you intend on reversing 65 car long trains. I see no need to include that much mainline and the mine.


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

OilValleyRy said:


> I would make two changes to rail gap locations. First, on the right I’d move the rail gap in the middle to the turnout near the wall.
> On the left, I don’t see a need to have the full area of track isolated. You could just gap the rail at the end of the bridge near the 180 curve, and at the two as depicted turnout gaps. Unless you intend on reversing 65 car long trains. I see no need to include that much mainline and the mine.


That's a good idea, I made the reverse loop just the connecting track, and move the turnout back to before the river, then extended the other mainline.

Docks got another overhaul, I'm going to put some pump-station loading on one of the spurs (not sure which yet).

Also, ordered a whole plethora of parts today, officially. Two engines, one DC (ordered a decoder for it with the engine) one DCC, the Zephyr Express controller, a handful of rolling stock, 15 pieces of Peco SL-300 (wooden tie), and the turnouts I need to do the mainline loop around _Jackson Yard_. It won't include the inner storage areas yet, just the loop, the passing siding at the front (left), and the freight loading station at the back (right). I'll probably order more track in about 2 weeks, to finish off the mainline and _Morrison Mine_, and go from there.

I'll need to build some benchwork in the new house once I finish moving in, should be completing the move on Friday. (Conveniently, shipping predictions estimated an arrival of parts on Friday as well.)

Also, forgot to mention: the entire caboose/MOW/Diesel storage area is going to be part of that reverse loop controller sector. Basically, the red reversing section on the far right _will_ extend to the next turnout from the main loop around, and include the storage areas coming off of it for caboose/MOW/Diesel. Its just not colored properly.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

EBrown said:


> That's a good idea, I made the reverse loop just the connecting track, and move the turnout back to before the river, then extended the other mainline.
> 
> Docks got another overhaul, I'm going to put some pump-station loading on one of the spurs (not sure which yet).
> 
> ...



Question. What is the line that runs in the middle of the right side crosses a bridge then ends what is that for?
That's a pretty long spur with a bridge there better be some big money coming out of that spur foe a railroad to go to those lengths.


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

Conductorkev said:


> Question. What is the line that runs in the middle of the right side crosses a bridge then ends what is that for?
> That's a pretty long spur with a bridge there better be some big money coming out of that spur foe a railroad to go to those lengths.


I'm not quite sure yet, it may not make it to the layout bench. Before I added the river it was a loading spur, but with the river now it's an artifact of a prior design. I wonder if I won't find a way to make that an "experimental engine test site" or something, where new propulsion systems can be engineered and tested without affecting the main operations.

There used to be section of road about 50 miles or so from where I am that serves a similar purpose. It was paved, as a four-lane divided highway, and it's now defunct, but it was a test of a new type of concrete. I might try to do something similar with that spur. I may also retire it, maybe “demo” the bridge.


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## Conductorkev (Nov 5, 2021)

EBrown said:


> I'm not quite sure yet, it may not make it to the layout bench. Before I added the river it was a loading spur, but with the river now it's an artifact of a prior design. I wonder if I won't find a way to make that an "experimental engine test site" or something, where new propulsion systems can be engineered and tested without affecting the main operations.
> 
> There used to be section of road about 50 miles or so from where I am that serves a similar purpose. It was paved, as a four-lane divided highway, and it's now defunct, but it was a test of a new type of concrete. I might try to do something similar with that spur. I may also retire it, maybe “demo” the bridge.



Ya but think about it. Would the railroad put in all the track and build a very expensive bridge over the river to get to a place they coukd have gotten to by creating a spur off the main that's right there.


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

Conductorkev said:


> Ya but think about it. Would the railroad put in all the track and build a very expensive bridge over the river to get to a place they coukd have gotten to by creating a spur off the main that's right there.


I could imagine it being from an old main-line that was planned but never finished because demand changed. I’m gonna play with it, it might disappear in the real-world build.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Looking good, bet the wallet is a bit thinner.
Your gong to like the Peco flex mating up to Peco turnouts.
It's going to be an interesting build and a very nice layout.

Magic


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

Magic said:


> Looking good, bet the wallet is a bit thinner.
> Your gong to like the Peco flex mating up to Peco turnouts.
> It's going to be an interesting build and a very nice layout.
> 
> Magic


Yes, all-in yesterday I went to about $1100, I ordered everything I need for the loop around the yard. I should have all the turnouts, and enough flex-track to cover all the track for that section. (Math showed I need 10.5-11.5 pieces of the 36" flex, so I got 15 pieces.)

The good news is the $1100 _also_ contained a Kato 106-4630 8 coal hopper pack, a Bachmann 66355 NS EMD GP40 DCC+sound, a Kato 176-7606 NS EMD SD70M DCC-ready, a decoder for the Kato, and the Digitrax Zephyr Express. It was around $425 for all the track, and around $650 or so for the train / gear.

I am going to use Atlas rerailers (2532), and Atlas joiners (2535), but I'm using the Peco insulated joiners (SL311) for the track. I've read that the Atlas joiners fit Peco track just a bit tighter, which I want, I'll then be soldering a large number of connections (honestly, probably all the non-insulated connections EXCEPT where they join a turnout).

Depending on how moving day goes and how far I get on the project over the next week (I'm off from Friday through Halloween), I might order more flex track and the turnouts I need to run the reverse loop "ess" through the center of the yard.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

EBrown said:


> I might order more flex track and the turnouts I need to run the reverse loop "ess" through the center of the yard.


I think that's a great idea. You could not only test out a reversing module, but having a reverse loop will also help keep things more interesting as you run trains while you continue to procure the rest of the supplies for the remaining trackwork.


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> I think that's a great idea. You could not only test out a reversing module, but having a reverse loop will also help keep things more interesting as you run trains while you continue to procure the rest of the supplies for the remaining trackwork.


That was kind of what I was thinking (also big thank you Jeff, for the module you supplied me with  ). I can also play with scenery stuff, trying to build the grade in the back of the yard, planning out the river and building a foundation so that I can drop into it, it really starts getting me into the actual model railroading stuff.

I have one servo on-hand right now, and I have a ton of magnets, so I may experiment with some (un)coupling stuff, and just have general fun with the railroading. I also have all the stuff on-hand that I need for DCC-EX, so I may even start building that part. Really, the first loop around the yard gives me a lot of potential. Adding that one reverse section really tops the cake.


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

The first batch has arrived! I have to order some MTL couplers yet, forgot to order those initially and the Kato and Bachmann couplers on the two locomotives are incompatible. Plus, I’ve read that the MTL couplers are very good, and one of the de-facto standards


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Great start!!! Will you be able to wait until you move? Tempting isn't it?


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

JeffHurl said:


> Great start!!! Will you be able to wait until you move? Tempting isn't it?


Heh, we actually moved yesterday, so today I’m unpacking and doing other stuff.

Going to try to get a straight track wired up today or tonight to play with the Bachmann I have that’s already DCC wired. Might try swapping the Kato to DCC tomorrow.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

EBrown said:


> Yes, all-in yesterday I went to about $1100, I ordered everything I need for the loop around the yard. I should have all the turnouts, and enough flex-track to cover all the track for that section. (Math showed I need 10.5-11.5 pieces of the 36" flex, so I got 15 pieces.)
> 
> The good news is the $1100 _also_ contained a Kato 106-4630 8 coal hopper pack, a Bachmann 66355 NS EMD GP40 DCC+sound, a Kato 176-7606 NS EMD SD70M DCC-ready, a decoder for the Kato, and the Digitrax Zephyr Express. It was around $425 for all the track, and around $650 or so for the train / gear.
> 
> ...


I suggest you leave some rail joiners unsoldered on your straight track. This gives the rail a little expansion/contraction room. The expansion isn't really the rail itself. The amount of rail expansion is miniscule. However, the wood portions of a typical layout can change shape, and dimensions, quite a bit more than the rails. This can cause the track that is glued to the wood base, to move a bit, and may throw the rails out of gauge. If your new basement has controlled temperature and humidity, that's a big plus. Changes in humidity & temperature can play hob with wood. I saw an extreme case at my old club. About a yard of all-soldered-joints-rail was ripped right up out of the tie strip. This was in an old building with no climate control at all. 

Making the frame & legs of your benchwork into 'L'-girders (see photos) will prevent warping. Painting, or sealing, the wood helps too.

Traction Fan


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## EBrown (5 mo ago)

traction fan said:


> I suggest you leave some rail joiners unsoldered on your straight track. This gives the rail a little expansion/contraction room. The expansion isn't really the rail itself. The amount of rail expansion is miniscule. However, the wood portions of a typical layout can change shape, and dimensions, quite a bit more than the rails. This can cause the track that is glued to the wood base, to move a bit, and may throw the rails out of gauge. If your new basement has controlled temperature and humidity, that's a big plus. Changes in humidity & temperature can play hob with wood. I saw an extreme case at my old club. About a yard of all-soldered-joints-rail was ripped right up out of the tie strip. This was in an old building with no climate control at all.
> 
> Making the frame & legs of your benchwork into 'L'-girders (see photos) will prevent warping. Painting, or sealing, the wood helps too.
> 
> Traction Fan


I'll keep that in mind. I'm not soldering any joints on turnouts, but I may avoid soldering joints that are between power grids. (I have a LOT of places I plan to drop power.)

Also, I've removed a turnout and spur coming out of the north-end of _Jackson Yard_. @Conductorkev mentioned doing so, and after looking at it on the table, it makes sense. Once I got parts in and started roughing the track down I decided it was a bit too much going on there. I'm already going to have a hard enough time getting all my servo's in for turnouts.


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