# Turnouts: Electrofrog vs Insulfrog



## Kilian (Feb 27, 2012)

Any thoughts on when to use? I wanna have remote switch points and in some research seems I can do this with Electrofrog with gauge master point motor and a sptd (?) toggle.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

What brand of Turnouts?
If you are going Peco you have to go insulfrog for DCC, unless they changed their design the electro frogs will short out using DCC.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I have both types of Paco turnouts on my DCC layout. The electro frog requires that both inside rails that are going away from the frog be insulated from the next section of track. I will only add insulfrog turnouts from now on, as they can be powered from all sides. More power feeds means less chance of an open circuit.


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## JPIII (Jun 24, 2012)

I use insulfrogs on all TOs......Atlas & Shinohara.

One TO is a curved# 8 with a long (3+ inch) dead frog. That thing brings most of my locos to a screeching halt....the frog exceeds the length between the locos pickups. The solution to that is a "Frog Juicer".....an automatic widget that switches polarity as required as the loco passes over. I ****-u-me* it will work on a hot frog also.


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

I use all Shinohara turnouts, so all my frogs are powered. I do have to cut gaps in the rails to prevent short circuits. But I prefer to have as much track powered as possible. I find easier to cut gaps with a saw or Dremel than to power the frog on other turnouts.


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## Kilian (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. I had gone with atlas remote TO but during the last year researching layouts et al, I've decided I will go with TO that can use under table motors since I don't like how the black switch 3" longside the track looks. It really lowers the quality of look on the layout.

I wanna use peco Insulfrog. What are you guys using for under table motors? I saw guagemaster point motors and looked decent to instal with sdpt toggles.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I use all tortoise switch machines.


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## Kilian (Feb 27, 2012)

Are they easy to install? Can you install a toggle switch and led indicator?


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

I use all tortoise switch machines two. Easy compared to what? 

I use a double pole, double throw, center off switch. I wired a bi color led (red/green) in series with the switch.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

You can actualy run and control tortious Switch machines with both control panel and LED's and trackside LED's all with a single control wire and one common wire and a single pole double throw switch.
It works great because when the switch machine is in motion the lights are both dim and when it finishes its movement will light the proper LED brightly.


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## Kilian (Feb 27, 2012)

NIMT said:


> You can actualy run and control tortious Switch machines with both control panel and LED's and trackside LED's all with a single control wire and one common wire and a single pole double throw switch.
> It works great because when the switch machine is in motion the lights are both dim and when it finishes its movement will light the proper LED brightly.


How do you do that?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Here ya are!
The fast throw it up print and the slow final print, both are the same wiring!


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## Kilian (Feb 27, 2012)

NIMT said:


> Here ya are!
> The fast throw it up print and the slow final print, both are the same wiring!
> View attachment 24806
> 
> ...


Thanks! What are ther triangle pieces in the bottom diagram? How does here be three bus wires to connect the toggles?? Would you have two bus lines : one for the track and one for the accessories and lights etc?


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## Kilian (Feb 27, 2012)

Was watching some YouTube vids tonight. So would you want a toggle with the red green led indicator on the control panel diagram and the a track side signal indicating which path. But as the train progresses into its path how do you get the track side signal go from green to red the yellow? Does that all get powered by the tortoise and some sort of motion sensor on the track?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Kilian said:


> Thanks! What are ther triangle pieces in the bottom diagram?
> LED's
> How does here be three bus wires to connect the toggles?? Would you have two bus lines : one for the track and one for the accessories and lights etc?
> It is not even connected to the track in any way!
> The wiring is just the control circuit for the switch amchines and the LED's. It's not the DCC BUS!





Kilian said:


> Was watching some YouTube vids tonight. So would you want a toggle with the red green led indicator on the control panel diagram and the a track side signal indicating which path. But as the train progresses into its path how do you get the track side signal go from green to red the yellow? Does that all get powered by the tortoise and some sort of motion sensor on the track?
> The circuit I gave you will control both the lights at the control panel and the lights on the track side, there is no provisions for yellow in this design.
> Contol of the lights and the switch machine are all done with the toggle switch at the control panel, no track sensors.


If you want automatic switching then thats a whole different matter!


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## Kilian (Feb 27, 2012)

Automatic switching? Hmm

I think I want the above design but then when the train passes into the right path the signal switches to red. Is this automatic switching?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Both drawings are the same setup.
If the train is on the right path the signal better be green as the red means stop!


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