# Is this old locomotive valuable? (estate find)



## archangel41 (Nov 5, 2012)

Original box but no paperwork. 

I don't know much about train models, is this "HO" scale? What is "Brass", etc.

Please take a look and tell me what you can. Any help appreciated, thanks!


----------



## jaymack1 (Sep 17, 2012)

looks pretty sweet.. would love to have that running!


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Brass refers to the material the engine/tender are made out of....they tend to be quite expensive - nice piece.

Here's a similar one on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DTD-HO-SCAL...OAD-2-8-4-768-STEAM-MODEL-TRAIN-/200719121471


----------



## archangel41 (Nov 5, 2012)

sstlaure said:


> Brass refers to the material the engine/tender are made out of....they tend to be quite expensive - nice piece.
> 
> Here's a similar one on ebay
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DTD-HO-SCAL...OAD-2-8-4-768-STEAM-MODEL-TRAIN-/200719121471


Is this one I have brass then?


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I think so. It dose look it in the photos. 

Do you have away to test run it?


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Pretty sure it's brass. You can see the brass finish showing through on some of the detailed edges around the cab and on the tender. It's probably a pretty heavy unit.


----------



## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

In 1925-26 95 of these engines were made. 45 for Boston and Albany and 50 for Illinois Central . The 45 for the B&A weighed 389,000 pounds and had a tractive effort of 69,400 pounds. The 50 for IC had the same tractive force but weighed in at 388,000 pounds.
In 1927 82 more 2-8-4 were built, 42 in 1928 and 50 in 1929. Doesn't say who bought them. A 4-8-2 was termed a 'Mountain" type but don't know if that applies to this 2-8-4 wheel arrangement. FYI Pete

You have a very nice engine and tender there and it's worth at least $150 according to the above link to ebay. Maybe more on a good day.


----------



## dablaze (Apr 17, 2012)

I would say that $150 is a general good ebay price, maybe more to someone looking for that line or engine number. LMB were brass, definitely craftsman and nice enough to run on any layout. Yours seems to have had some tinkering to get better pickup out of the tender wheels, although the mechanism there is probably original.

Yes it would be HO. The Mountain is a popular engine. Nice engine, thanks for showing it to us.

Craig


----------



## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The 2-8-4 wheel arrangement were called "Berkshire" type locos.


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

That would be a brass 2-8-4 Berkshire. Yours has a fair paint job with a missing number board on the front. I figure it's from the late 50s to mid 60s as the details are coarser and sparser than later ones. It would be a higher end model from that time because of the floating gear box, a detail added to smooth out the drive train to meet customer demand for better running brass back then. 

In natural brass or factory paint, it would fetch more than the current condition, no doubt lovingly painted by a well meaning but inexperienced modeler. That is a later version of the Kadee coupler and not one typical for the early 60s as well, most likely meaning that it was run up until recently by the originl owner. 

The grain-of-wheat lighting marks it as having been done early in its life as smaller ones were available by the early 70s. It would not surprise me then if that were stove black paint and not enamel or laquer, as that was a common model paint until the late 50s. A very nice piece...:thumbsup:


----------



## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Brakeman Jake said:


> The 2-8-4 wheel arrangement were called "Berkshire" type locos.


Geeze! I ought to know that. I just bought one from Rusty Cuda. Ha! Pete


----------



## dablaze (Apr 17, 2012)

> Geeze! I ought to know that. I just bought one from Rusty Cuda. Ha! Pete


I guess we are both Dyslexic! 4-8-2 is the Mountain.

Then again, what do I know, I have been a diesel guy all my life, just got into steam in the last 6 months. Enjoying it though!

Craig


----------



## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

LMB NKP Berks were imported in the early to mid 1960's, and came with working headlight and Mars light from the factory. Paint job is probably as old as the model as it would have come unpainted from the importer. Importer was Blum's Hobby House, located in Cleveland OH. LMB is the owners/importers initials. The LMB Berks dont come up very often for sale, I would think a value of around 175-250+ this time of year on ebay if you choose to sell. Or, I would get it running and enjoy it on your layout. If you need help with that, I work on older brass or can walk you thru basic maintance. Take care with the original box and packaging, its part of the value of the model. If you sell the model to a brass dealer, expect to get only 40-50% of its retail value. Great looking model!! Mike


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

mtoney said:


> LMB NKP Berks were imported in the early to mid 1960's, and came with working headlight and Mars light from the factory.


Sweet...good to know, wonder if that one still works...considering early 60s electronics, the circuit must fill the tender:thumbsup:


----------



## archangel41 (Nov 5, 2012)

Wow, you guys are truly a wealth of information on these. Obviously I came to the right source. Thank you all so much for your informative replies!

P.S. I do not have anyway to test it's funactionality. I can tell you the original owner was a very "particular fellow" I would be suprised to learn it did not work.


----------



## Midnight85 (Jun 2, 2012)

I think all the others were mistaken, that is a worthless piece, Since I am also in Illinois I would be happy to come pick it up & get rid of it for you,,,,,,, 
Seriously, that is a fine looking piece and you are fortunate to have it. If you are anywhere near Streator, bring it by & we can put it on my track & see if it runs


----------



## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

Archangle, if you decide to keep the engine, there are a couple of companies that make nice wood base with a clear, either plexiglass or real glass, covers that you could use to display the model. If not, I am sure there are a couple guys here that would probably be interested in buying if you decide to sell the model on to someone else. NKP Berkshires are very popular around my area due to the heavy influence of ex NKP lines near me. Some of the older models are the better ones to operate, heavier built for operation VS super, museum level detailing that is really only suitable to be under a glass cover. Back then, brass just was the best medium to produce the model in, as opposed to diecasting metal. They were ment to run back in those days. I personaly have not seen the LMB version in a long long time, either with a dealer at a show or on ebay. If you decide to sell, best options is either ebay it yourself with a reserve price or sell it to a member on one of these forums. I hope you keep it and maybe get a little track and try running it. There are plenty of freight cars for the NKP and cabooses to make up a proper train for her to pull. If you have a 9volt battery, you can touch one contact to the drawbar, the metal hitch to the tender, and the other side to somewhere close by on the locomotive body/frame to see if the motor will run. The engine is one side of the circuit, the tender is the other, fed thru the metal drawbar/hitch to the motor in the locomotive. Its probably best however, if you want to try to run it, is have someone such as myself or someone near you that is familar with older brass, go thru it and make sure all is well before its run. Most of the grease and oils turned rock hard or to varnish by now. So a good cleaning and relubrication will be in order before its run much, or at all. You can PM me if I can be of further assistance, or for referances on my repair work, you can contact The Train Exchange in Kokomo, Indiana. I handle all of the repair work for them as well. Cheers Mike and Michele T


----------



## archangel41 (Nov 5, 2012)

mtoney said:


> Archangle, if you decide to keep the engine, there are a couple of companies that make nice wood base with a clear, either plexiglass or real glass, covers that you could use to display the model. If not, I am sure there are a couple guys here that would probably be interested in buying if you decide to sell the model on to someone else. NKP Berkshires are very popular around my area due to the heavy influence of ex NKP lines near me. Some of the older models are the better ones to operate, heavier built for operation VS super, museum level detailing that is really only suitable to be under a glass cover. Back then, brass just was the best medium to produce the model in, as opposed to diecasting metal. They were ment to run back in those days. I personaly have not seen the LMB version in a long long time, either with a dealer at a show or on ebay. If you decide to sell, best options is either ebay it yourself with a reserve price or sell it to a member on one of these forums. I hope you keep it and maybe get a little track and try running it. There are plenty of freight cars for the NKP and cabooses to make up a proper train for her to pull. If you have a 9volt battery, you can touch one contact to the drawbar, the metal hitch to the tender, and the other side to somewhere close by on the locomotive body/frame to see if the motor will run. The engine is one side of the circuit, the tender is the other, fed thru the metal drawbar/hitch to the motor in the locomotive. Its probably best however, if you want to try to run it, is have someone such as myself or someone near you that is familar with older brass, go thru it and make sure all is well before its run. Most of the grease and oils turned rock hard or to varnish by now. So a good cleaning and relubrication will be in order before its run much, or at all. You can PM me if I can be of further assistance, or for referances on my repair work, you can contact The Train Exchange in Kokomo, Indiana. I handle all of the repair work for them as well. Cheers Mike and Michele T


Very good information, thanks for taking the time to compose.

Can you tell me what the numbering means. As is 4-8-10 or what have you. I see that popping up alot and do not understand it's meaning? What is this one?


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

archangel41 said:


> Very good information, thanks for taking the time to compose.
> 
> Can you tell me what the numbering means. As is 4-8-10 or what have you. I see that popping up alot and do not understand it's meaning? What is this one?



2-8-4 that is what you have, turn your engine over and count the wheels from the front to the back. You have a 2-8-4 

if there are no wheels in the front or back it would be called a 0-4-0. 

4 wheels in the front 8 next and 4 in the rear it is a 4-8-4. All steam locos are classified that way.

Start at the front and go to the back.


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

It's called the "Whyte Notation"... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whyte_notation


----------



## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

shaygetz said:


> It's called the "Whyte Notation"... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whyte_notation


Thanks for that link, I spent about an hour and a half trawling wiki articles that kept leading on from that.


One interestimg thing I found was the garratt steam locos, amazing engeneering right there, and still produced new in 1994 to some country. crazy.


----------



## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

Love the engine, looks really good!!


----------

