# Benchwork question.



## Tankmech4 (Dec 23, 2016)

First off thanks for the add, I'm not a complete newb to model railroading but it has been quite a long time since I was active in the hobby.

We have put our outdoor layout on hold, due to not being able to purchase the home we currently reside in. So we have changed locations and scale. The image is the concept. The overall design is 4x8, A 1/4" sheet of plywood, with 1/2" foam board for the base. My question is this, I was thinking of using 2x4's for the skirt, legs, and crossmembers, 1x2's for the bracing of the legs. I am pretty sure this is overkill and will make moving the layout a pain when the time comes. I've read that 1x2's and 2x2's will be just as sturdy. Any thoughts? I'm no engineer, but i understand the concept of engineered trusses and the like, would this be a viable alternative to plain lumber.

Does anyone know where I can find a website that can show me how to make the engineered wood.


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

1/4" is pretty thin for the top. I would go with 1/2" ply (not OSB) for the top with 1X4 pine joists @16" on center and 1x4 rim all around. 2X2 legs should be fine with 1X2 bracing. Get some T nuts for the bottom of the legs for adjusting. https://www.amazon.com/10-32-T-Nuts...2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482554158&sr=1-12

you can get them at any hardware store.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

2x4s are definitely overkill for legs and cross members. 1x4s are plenty strong enough. Use two 1x4s attached at right angles for legs. 1x2s for diagonal bracing is fine. Attach legs and diagonals with carriage bolts -- easy to disassemble for moving the layout.

At the bottom of the corner legs attach a short 2x2 inside the L-shaped leg created by the 1x4s. Then install adjustable feet in the 2x2 -- the kind where you turn the foot to raise or lower it. This gives you an easy way to level the layout no matter where it winds up.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Depending on their height, I just use 1X2 spruce with gusset or cross-braces for 'stilt's. I block then into a corner of the 1X4 "open grid" box-type benchwork surface module using small pieces of 1X2 and 1X4 to make it strong up there at the top. Sway braces take care of the rest. However, 1X4 will work well, they just cost more...twice as much material per linear foot.

For working surfaces holding roadbed and scenery, I never use anything less than G1S 1/2" plywood, good quality, and found I really liked the strength of 5/8" G1S. IMO, 3/4" is overkill.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I used 1/2 plywood, 2x4 perimeter, with 2x4 on 16" centers, with 2x4 legs. You can walk on mine...


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

flyernut said:


> I used 1/2 plywood, 2x4 perimeter, with 2x4 on 16" centers, with 2x4 legs. You can walk on mine...


Yes, but remember that the OP will need to move his table.


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## Tankmech4 (Dec 23, 2016)

Thank you everyone, a lot of info to download and consider. I read in an old magazine that 1x2 and 1x4 "L" beam will be quite strong and still make moving the layout slightly more manageable. I've also considered the possibility of a dual "I" beam for the larger area of the layout, and then cantelever the 2 dog legs. One thing I did not mention in the original post; and for this I apologize; this layout will be in "N" scale. Again thank you everyone for your input. I just want the sturdiest layout possible and still be able to move it when it comes time for its permanent home.


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## Tankmech4 (Dec 23, 2016)

One thing I did forget to mention is this will be an " N" scale layout, and at this point weight is a huge consideration. Having said that would yo still recommend I se 1/2 ply over the 1/4?


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## Tankmech4 (Dec 23, 2016)

Bwells said:


> 1/4" is pretty thin for the top. I would go with 1/2" ply (not OSB) for the top with 1X4 pine joists @16" on center and 1x4 rim all around. 2X2 legs should be fine with 1X2 bracing. Get some T nuts for the bottom of the legs for adjusting. https://www.amazon.com/10-32-T-Nuts...2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482554158&sr=1-12
> 
> you can get them at any hardware store.



One thing I did forget to mention is this will be an " N" scale layout, and at this point weight is a huge consideration. Having said that would you still recommend I use 1/2 ply over the 1/4?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I am in agreement with several of the guys posts
but do think it is very easy to over build.

1 X 4 is ideal for all the framing. Use it to make L
shape legs that are bolted in corners to add stability.

In my opinion 1/4" plywood is adequate for N or even
HO trains. When you screw and bolt (never nail) the
frames and screw on the plywood they reinforce each
other and provide all the strength you need, even for
the occasional body lean to reach a far spot.

Be sure to drill holes in the cross members to
make stringing wires and cables easier.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You can skip the plywood altogether and just put 2" foam over joists. The a 1x2 screwed to a 1x3 in an L shape make light and sturdy joists. This would be far and away your lightest option.


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## Tankmech4 (Dec 23, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> You can skip the plywood altogether and just put 2" foam over joists. The a 1x2 screwed to a 1x3 in an L shape make light and sturdy joists. This would be far and away your lightest option.


At some point in the process I do envision water on the layout. Is my assumption correct that I would need to seal the 2" before attempting this.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Tankmech4 said:


> At some point in the process I do envision water on the layout. Is my assumption correct that I would need to seal the 2" before attempting this.


If you're thinking of using real water, many others on here will caution you about doing this. It's a nightmare to maintain and keep clean. Most everyone who has tried it finally gave up and went with artificial water.


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## Tankmech4 (Dec 23, 2016)

highvoltage said:


> If you're thinking of using real water, many others on here will caution you about doing this. It's a nightmare to maintain and keep clean. Most everyone who has tried it finally gave up and went with artificial water.


Although real would be pretty cool, no I was envisioning artificial. Now when we find our new home and a place for our outdoor layout, real flowing water is a definitive must. Buts that's farther down the road.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Foam "Sandwich"*

Tankmech4;

Another way to get great strength, light weight and a convenient surface to mount wiring and switch machines under the layout is to glue the extruded foam on top of a 1/4" thick piece of Luan plywood. The foam, particularly if it's 2" thick, will support itself. The Luan though, provides a good surface to screw on switch machines, cable clamps, etc. and it adds very little weight. My own layout is a very different shape (around the walls shelf), but uses a similar construction. I can lift a 4' section with one finger; yet the same section will support my (250Lb.) weight.

regards;
Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

running water on a 4X8 layout. A single bump and that water is everywhere.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> running water on a 4X8 layout. A single bump and that water is everywhere.


...and worse, as most who try it will immediately see when they first pour their water, it doesn't scale. At all. Any little movement of the benchwork will send weird ripples moving on its surface. If you want it to flow, it will flow at real-world speed, not scaled speed. If you manage to keep it still, the surface will look no different from glass. I almost never see glassy water except in a small puddle at dawn...now and then.

I strongly urge you to abandon any notions of having real water on your layout.


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