# Considering getting into N scale



## mkpatrick (Nov 25, 2017)

I am brand new to model trains in every way. 
I don't have a lot of room so I can't go with the bigger HO scale. 

For now, I plan to run on a 20" by 48" table. I may also go with the 30" by 48" table. 
I am going to make a Christmas scene, with a miniature Christmas tree and then a small oval with perhaps a switch track. 

However, after looking at some of these trains, I'm pretty amazed at the level of detail. I could very well move this upstairs after Christmas and continue it as a hobby. 

First though, I have some questions for the forum. 

1. The above table, is that large enough for an N scale train to negotiate a curve in that amount of area? 
2. If so, should I step down in scale and look at Z scale?
3. I don't mind paying some of the prices for a locomotive, some I've seen are over 200$. Whats the scale on quality here? Is a 200$ locomotive, for example a diesel BNSF, good quality or is that typical of the lowest quality?
I am involved with the RC hobbies so I know quality is a gradient but sometimes things are over priced for what you end up getting. 
I'm looking for a median quality to start out with.

Apologies for my initial questions, right out of the chute. 

Thanks to all that have the time to share,

Mike


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

First, welcome to the forum from a fellow Washingtonian. Don't be afraid to ask questions; that's why we're here.

$200 is overpriced for a good quality locomotive. I found two different Kato BNSF locomotives with factory installed DCC for less than $150 each at modeltrainstuff,com . Kato is generally considered a high-quality manufacturer. I'll leave it to others here why you want DCC instead of old-school DC.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Kato-N-1768435-1-SD70ACe-BNSF-Kobo-p/kat-1768435-1.htm
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Kato-N-176-8924-GE-ES44AC-GEVO-BNSF-p/kat-1768924-1.htm


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

If you're wanting to have a "loop," 20" is *very* tight for N scale. You might even have trouble finding pre-made track that tight. Atlas makes 10" radius curve set, but I believe that's measured from the center of the track. Further, it's commonly believed that many locomotives won't run on anything tighter than 11.25" or 12.5" radius. I have one locomotive that will immediately derail if it enters the 10" radius section of my layout.
Long cars and locomotives will also tend to look "off" on that tight of a turn.

30" is a much better idea. Only the really big locomotives will look out of place on the curves you can fit on there. Remember that, unless you're going to put plexiglass along the edges, you don't want to lay track right up to the edge; a train that has space to fall on its side after derailing won't fall to the floor and practically shatter. I.E. you might make the 13.75" radius curves a maximum.

Z scale will definitely give you plenty of room to play with, even on a 20" wide table. They're pretty much all designed to operate on ridiculously sharp curves.


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## mkpatrick (Nov 25, 2017)

Here is a question;
What is DCC?
I assume DC is Direct Current but whats DCC?


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## mkpatrick (Nov 25, 2017)

Ko Improbable said:


> If you're wanting to have a "loop," 20" is *very* tight for N scale. You might even have trouble finding pre-made track that tight. Atlas makes 10" radius curve set, but I believe that's measured from the center of the track. Further, it's commonly believed that many locomotives won't run on anything tighter than 11.25" or 12.5" radius. I have one locomotive that will immediately derail if it enters the 10" radius section of my layout.
> Long cars and locomotives will also tend to look "off" on that tight of a turn.
> 
> 30" is a much better idea. Only the really big locomotives will look out of place on the curves you can fit on there. Remember that, unless you're going to put plexiglass along the edges, you don't want to lay track right up to the edge; a train that has space to fall on its side after derailing won't fall to the floor and practically shatter. I.E. you might make the 13.75" radius curves a maximum.
> ...


OK so 30" is minimum for the Christmas scene.


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

mkpatrick said:


> Here is a question;
> What is DCC?
> I assume DC is Direct Current but whats DCC?


DC = analog; all electric motors connected to the track will turn when power is supplied to the rails. It's where model railroading came from.
DCC = digital; it's *like* AC current, but not the same as AC current. The track is always fully powered, and locomotives will increase and decrease speed based on digital commands sent across the rails. So, you can run multiple locomotives, totally independently, at different speeds, without having to divide the layout into power districts. Some of the more nicer systems will even let you have more than one control hooked up to let two or more people operate trains at the same time.
DCC can do other things, too, like operate powered turn outs, turn on/off lights, etc. Some nicer DCC "decoders" also have sound built in.
Not all locomotives will have a "decoder" built in; many do. Those that don't may be "DCC Ready" or "DCC Friendly" meaning putting a decoder in isn't brain surgery.


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

mkpatrick said:


> OK so 30" is minimum for the Christmas scene.


Well, if you're willing to accept certain limitations, you can comfortably run it on a 24" board. Like, my GE 70-ton looks fine on the 10" radius curves, and if I stick with short cars, they don't look too weird following it.

30" would just mean you could comfortably run longer locomotives (GPs, F7s, etc) without them looking odd.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

DCC stands for digital command control. It gives you control over each locomotive rather than just the track. With DC if you have 2 locos on the same track, they will both begin to run when you turn up the speed on the power pack. With DCC you control each loco individually. You can tell one loco to go 20 mph in one direction and the other to go 5 mph in the other direction. With the locos sitting still you can turn on and off lights, bells, horns (if the loco has a sound decoder in it). Non-sound decoders still give you lights and running control. Speaking of control, with DCC you get much better speed control, especially at slow speeds. Most DCC locos will run at creep speeds way better than DC locos. DCC makes wiring the layout much easier since you can turn locos on and off if they're sitting on a siding instead of having to turn the track on or off with a switch. Until you start getting a complicated layout, most DCC functions are handled with the control box (power pack) alone. It's somewhat more expensive than DC, but the advantages are well worth the cost since you're starting out new.

Oh, by the way, welcome aboard! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## mkpatrick (Nov 25, 2017)

This DCC sounds like the way to go. 

I had no idea you could turn on and off the lights either. That is very cool!

This has come a long way since the trains I saw when I was a kid. I suppose it should, thats a long long time.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*DCC*



mkpatrick said:


> This DCC sounds like the way to go.
> 
> I had no idea you could turn on and off the lights either. That is very cool!
> 
> This has come a long way since the trains I saw when I was a kid. I suppose it should, thats a long long time.


mkpatrick;

While the small and simple Christmas layout you;re considering doesn't really need DCC, (since you will probably be running only one train) there is no harm in starting out with it. If you are bitten by the model railroading bug, you will probably want to build a bigger layout.
DCC is also available with sound, if that's something you would be interested in. DCC sound decoders will produce things like the chug and whistle of a steam loco, or the low rumble of the diesel locomotive's engine and the sound of the air horns. Other sounds are often included too. 
Many locomotives sold with DCC already installed, may not have the sound option. Check the description carefully. If it has both DCC, and sound, that will normally be touted in the ad. 

Good luck, and have fun!

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

PS. Here is some additional info to help you get started in model railroading. Just click on a link and then on the blue, downward arrow the link sends to the top right area of your screen.

View attachment Where do I start (revised version).pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


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## mkpatrick (Nov 25, 2017)

Where is a good place to shop? 
Thanks, 
M


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Welcome from Tacoma! 

I do most of my shopping online but not exclusively. Robs Trains in Tacoma is my favorite local shop, his prices are good and the service is better. Most of my freight cars come from Exact Rail and TrainLife, good quality and prices. 

I too am building a Christmas layout, I will have 2 trains running independently but both DC. For my needs the use of DCC just isn’t needed here. My layout is small about 30 x 40 with a mountain, tunnels, a water fall, pond/creek, 2 different types of bridges, and a small town. I will be adding lighting to the buildings and prolly the street lights as well. There is a Christmas tree in the middle of town too. I got my inspiration from 3 or 4 different builds I found on YouTube and took a little from each one to make this work. For simplicity I’m using Kato Unitrack, and my scenery is carved foam. Check out my build thread and see if it can inspire you too. Also search small Christmas n scale layout on YouTube to see what inspired me. 

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=145681


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## mkpatrick (Nov 25, 2017)

Thanks so much, 

Definitely gonna call Rob's trains today!

M


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## Colorado1445 (Nov 11, 2017)

I tend to go to M.B. Klein aka ModelTrainStuff(dot)com. I am cheap and the prices are a lot lower than other online shops. Also I have no nearby hobby shops.


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