# Questions about two levels for layout



## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

Ok so I have my layout, that I plan on setting up. Going to start the framing of the table soon. I like how I will have a 10x6 on one end and a bridge going over (past a door so needs to be removable) to another section....

Currently, I have a piece of plywood on that right side holding all of my trains and rolling stock. Kinda like that, but that would mean no layout there to which I want that side to be a coal/oil area.....

so I got the bright idea....plenty of track...

why not do a 2nd level under the 10x6 where i would go down 12 inches and store trains, rolling stock under there?


ok so after first figuring out the length of track for a 2" grade, I have come up with 600 inches!!!!!

so questions:

1. Is 12" enough height to reach under in case if a train derails?
2. 600" for 2% - will i even be able to reach under the table to get to things?


so i figure.... start the grade down on front left going right... 
120" from left to right, make a turn 72" so 192" for half so 384" will go around once... so i will have to go around 1.75 times..... 

does that just seem worth doing?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

My layout has a hidden storage yard and reverse loop underneath. It is at minus 6". There is only plywood under the roadbed and track at that level so the trains can easily be accessed from under the layout. The elevation 0" mainline dips down a bit at the lower tunnel entrance so the the access track only drops another 4.5". I recall that takes about 225".
As an aside if you plan a hidden yard you either need lighting with good camera coverage or block occupancy detectors combined with turnout fouling detectors. I have the latter.


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

AmFlyer said:


> My layout has a hidden storage yard and reverse loop underneath. It is at minus 6". There is only plywood under the roadbed and track at that level so the trains can easily be accessed from under the layout. The elevation 0" mainline dips down a bit at the lower tunnel entrance so the the access track only drops another 4.5". I recall that takes about 225".
> As an aside if you plan a hidden yard you either need lighting with good camera coverage or block occupancy detectors combined with turnout fouling detectors. I have the latter.


thx!!! camera coverage? hmmm..

got any pics?

what trains do you run? ive got post war and dont like to pull more than 7 cars...so even 2%... hope they can handle it. ill most likely build the top and wire accessories... then build lower but not permanent till i make sure it all works....

i havent even started to look into how to do this as in...
how to hold the track. 

off to google...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Here are two pictures taken during construction. The first is a view of three of the tracks, the top most track is the reverse loop return. You can see how easy it is to reach up from underneath. 
The second is looking down through the elevation zero level. The cutout the camera is looking through is for the turntable that was yet to be set in place.
The grade is about 1.6% from the end of the yard back to the mainline. The hidden yard tracks each hold an engine and about 20 cars. I typically operate freights with 12 to 15 cars.The cars are mostly postwar, the engines are either new Lionel Flyer or American Models. I have some scale engines w/o traction tires. Double heading two of these diesels will pull any train anywhere on the layout. The ruling grade is 2.4%.
The postwar Gilbert engines without traction tires will pull a 7 car freight anywhere. Longer trains require engines with traction tires or double heading.
I have enough pictures to bore everyone, let me know if there is something specific you want to see.


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

AmFlyer said:


> Here are two pictures taken during construction. The first is a view of three of the tracks, the top most track is the reverse loop return. You can see how easy it is to reach up from underneath.
> The second is looking down through the elevation zero level. The cutout the camera is looking through is for the turntable that was yet to be set in place.
> The grade is about 1.6% from the end of the yard back to the mainline. The hidden yard tracks each hold an engine and about 20 cars. I typically operate freights with 12 to 15 cars.The cars are mostly postwar, the engines are either new Lionel Flyer or American Models. I have some scale engines w/o traction tires. Double heading two of these diesels will pull any train anywhere on the layout. The ruling grade is 2.4%.
> The postwar Gilbert engines without traction tires will pull a 7 car freight anywhere. Longer trains require engines with traction tires or double heading.
> ...


wow thats awesome!!!!
yeah im seein my post war locos dont like many cars...even on flat ground!!!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, my first thought is that if you are only going to make a staging yard down there (vice a fully scenicked layout section), then 12" is an unnecessarily large separation. 4.5 would be a minimum.... I'd go with 6.

If you out it right at the edge of your upper level's overhang, you will have no trouble reaching.

Speaking of reach, though, have you considered how you will reach the center of your 10x6 area? When it's on the floor, you step over things. On a table / benchwork, not so much. So when something derails on one of those crossovers in the center, what are you going to do? If you have no intention to build scenery, crawling in may in fact be an option, but if you have scenery and structures to work around, then in a word: fuhgeddabowdit!


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

CTValleyRR said:


> Well, my first thought is that if you are only going to make a staging yard down there (vice a fully scenicked layout section), then 12" is an unnecessarily large separation. 4.5 would be a minimum.... I'd go with 6.
> 
> If you out it right at the edge of your upper level's overhang, you will have no trouble reaching.
> 
> Speaking of reach, though, have you considered how you will reach the center of your 10x6 area? When it's on the floor, you step over things. On a table / benchwork, not so much. So when something derails on one of those crossovers in the center, what are you going to do? If you have no intention to build scenery, crawling in may in fact be an option, but if you have scenery and structures to work around, then in a word: fuhgeddabowdit!


lol..

yeah.. no scenery..

thus 12in. send 13y in...


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

Actually, im going to take this to a new level...

im going to build an 8ft elevator for my trains!!!!!!!!

talking and looking around and figuring things out...
will have more info in the future.. now i gotta get this bench built..


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