# NYC on the shelf



## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hello there! Been a long time since I was last on here. New job, bought a house, etc etc. Anyway, I now have the location and the time to begin building a semi-permanent nice layout. I have two options for a location. I can build it in the bonus room where I would have an L shelf made of two 7' long legs, or I could build it in the office where I would have a single 9' leg and maybe, in the future, be able to add a 3' leg. 

I'm leaning toward the office because it'll be much easier to keep it off limits when it comes to small hands (which are currently a year or two in the future). I can make the shelf maybe 12" or 18" wide. So that's the physical aspect of things.

As far as goals for the layout, I'd like to model a mythical upstate New York branch of the NYC set in the 1950s. The way the narrative has been going in my head it would be a branch built pre-WWI for anthracite, then the mine failed either before or during WWII and a vital connecting bridge to the main line was never upgraded, limiting the size of motive power. So, a dash of NYO & W, but NYC motive power. 

I've got an RS3 and an HH600 at the moment, a collection of random NYC coal gondolas, a cattle car, and a caboose. I also have a small passenger station, and all of my track is the Bachmann stuff, gray roadbed, 18" radius curves. 

I'd like to build a point to point line with a switching yard either at one of the ends or somewhere along the way, and run-around loops so the loco can get from end to end on the train. The locomotives are DCC ready and I have wired switches. I'd also like to incorporate a steam loco on the line - anyone make a Mohawk that can handle 18" curves? 

I've been looking at track plans here and elsewhere online. Maybe start with the plan below?









Any tips, hints, tricks, suggestions, are welcome.


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## spoil9 (Dec 24, 2008)

Welcome back.

Where you put the layout is entirely up to you and your spouse, but it is a good idea to think about the future little ones as I see that spare bedroom becoming a potential kids play room.

As far as the story goes, it sounds like a good start and will give you a good time period to find/ custom build models for. You can mix both real old pre-WWII stuff with some post WWII stuff to your tastes. And I'll make the same offer to you I've made to others, email me your thoughts and I'd be happy to write a short story biography of the history of your rail road. 

As far as the track plan, looks good to me. I'm usually very picky about my track plans and my specific needs so I can't comment on this for you. I guess the only concern would be would a mining short line need so many sidings? Or did it expand with the city after the mine shut down?
Have you thought about which industries you want to include and space needed?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I can see what you have in mind...interesting layout.

What is the scale of the Red Squares. If 12" then
you are running off the table in lower right and pretty
close on the upper areas. That also exceeds your
idea of 18" wide shelf. 18" is probably not doable.
Since you have few actual curves, only the diversions
on the turnouts you may be able to 'get away' with 
18" radius for most locos. But try before you buy.

You could create a 'run around' for your loco by adding
in 2 turnouts to connect the tracks across the top.

Don


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## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

I'd add a fake mainline at the top or bottom and sprout the switching duties off of it


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

The plan I posted is one I found during my last batch of layout research, so I'm not sure of the scale. I would prune a lot of the spurs. I like the idea of the central track being an s-curve, so that one station would be close to the wall and one would be close to the edge of the shelf to give it some depth and variety. 

Switching would be important to have to keep the layout interesting. So maybe we've got a fake mainline with a turnout to the branch, so cars can be dropped off, sorted, and then pulled by the local power over the bridge and into the remainder of the layout proper. I was thinking that the mine itself would be off-layout, but there might be a spur leading to it for cars to be picked up and dropped off. 

What would be a good replacement industry for a failed mining town in upstate NY? I was thinking agricultural going to the main and mixed freight coming in, with the occasional passenger run. 

I'd like to pick up a steamer to run from time to time, either for a mixed freight or on the passenger run. Would a Hudson be used for freight and passenger traffic in the late 1950s? Mohawk? I guess a generic mikado could work as well. Too bad I can't justify a N &W J! Love those engines.


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## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

well, being your layout, run the engine you want. not much fun running something around thinking to yourself, I wish I had something else


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm still trying to figure out something optimal for the layout. I took apart my continuous run and started playing in a 9' area. One thing I'm learning - HO track, especially the Bachmann EZ track, takes up a ton of space. So it seems like I would have one shelf be the scenic part, with the station and the town, while the other shelf would be the switching yard.

I was thinking that the busy end on the mainline side of the bridge would be laid out almost like a timesaver, the idea being that the rails just continue off-layout and form the other half of a small classification yard. So a (imaginary) mainline freight would kick off a cut of cars into this switching yard (made up of the Bachmann crossover switches), where the local switcher would put them in order for the trip over the bridge and to the town. 

The town, on the other side of the bridge, would have a small freight siding, a run-around loop, and the station. If it weren't for the fact that I already have a substantial amount of HO track, two locomotives, and a handful of freight cars, I'd say N-Scale would be far better for what I'm trying to do.


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## DT&I (Dec 6, 2013)

yeh, a lot can be done in N scale. pricewise though, HO is cheaper most of the time.
Plus the older you get, the harder it is to see


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

thx712517 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out something optimal for the layout. I took apart my continuous run and started playing in a 9' area. One thing I'm learning - HO track, especially the Bachmann EZ track, takes up a ton of space. So it seems like I would have one shelf be the scenic part, with the station and the town, while the other shelf would be the switching yard.
> 
> I was thinking that the busy end on the mainline side of the bridge would be laid out almost like a timesaver, the idea being that the rails just continue off-layout and form the other half of a small classification yard. So a (imaginary) mainline freight would kick off a cut of cars into this switching yard (made up of the Bachmann crossover switches), where the local switcher would put them in order for the trip over the bridge and to the town.
> 
> The town, on the other side of the bridge, would have a small freight siding, a run-around loop, and the station. If it weren't for the fact that I already have a substantial amount of HO track, two locomotives, and a handful of freight cars, I'd say N-Scale would be far better for what I'm trying to do.


You could always sell what you ave and put it towards N-scale. If N would work better for what you want to do, then you should go that way. Trying to force HO to work will just lead to frustration.


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

Starting to do some on-floor testing of layout options to see how they would work. Thoughts?


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## spoil9 (Dec 24, 2008)

Is that a start, or all the room you have to play with?

I know you already have the EZ track, but i think youd be happier selling that and going with flex track on cork.


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

I've got a 9' X 18"-ish straight shot, and then I can add a 7' leg to make it an L later on in time.


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## spoil9 (Dec 24, 2008)

Can't wait to see construction start. Do you know what industry is being served by each siding yet?


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

Here's a potential scenario I've come up with. The top layout plan shows the end of the branch connecting with the main. Think of it as a division yard cut in half, maybe? Arriving freight comes in from the right on the main line connection and heads to the left and is dumped on the yard lead. The local switcher grumbles over and hauls it to the station layout shown at the bottom on the branch's main line. 

In the bottom half of the image, freight comes in from the left on the branch's main line, is pulled up to the station, and unloaded. The switcher then cuts off the freight, runs around, and hooks up at the new front of the train. Any less than carload freight is picked up from the team track by backing down on it, then the train heads back to the division yard. 

At the division yard, the train can be broken down and sorted to best fit the mainline route's stops. Excess cars can be stowed in the division yard when there isn't anything to ship. The two parts of the layout, the division yard and the station, would be connected with some curving track to accommodate an L-shaped shelf layout. 

The branch's original reason for existence was anthracite, but a shifting economy and problems at the mine cut into the coal load significantly. Now the branch's reason for survival is the rural community that relies on it to bring in the occasional piece of farm equipment, boxcars of freight, and haul small amounts of agriculture out. Because of a bridge on the route that is in need of replacement, motive power is limited in size. 

Comments? Thoughts? At some point in the future I'd like to add maybe a Hudson fallen on hard times bringing an only-on-Sundays passenger run.


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## spoil9 (Dec 24, 2008)

I think you got yourself a great idea and a great start. Sounds simple to operate yet should still provide some operational fun.


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

Trying out the idea in the real world. Length right now is 12', almost 13'. Width I'm not too focused on at the moment. The "half a division yard" side of things, while not exactly as I've drawn it, seems to work fairly well. It would be nice to incorporate a run-around loop on that end. 

The station side of the line is pretty decent. I've got my run-around loop, I've got a team track siding. However, the run-around loop isn't long enough to accommodate the length of train I'd like to run, and bumping up the length there wouldn't happen if the idea is to keep it within a certain length.

When classifying cars on the division yard side, the completed train winds up with the caboose in the division yard and the loco at the first switch of the run-around loop. Length here is definitely an issue. 

I don't know. The office walls are 9' and 7', but even with an L-shelf I'm not sure I'll be able to cram it all in and do some scenic stuff. I suppose I could focus on just the division yard, or just the station, but the idea is rattling around that maybe a shift down to N would get me the shelf layout I'm looking for. I just hate to start fresh when I've got all this HO stuff.


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## thx712517 (Dec 31, 2010)

Running through more tests on the floor and not very happy with what's been going on. 

I currently have the run of the floor in the bonus room, and I've got a bunch of track. So, I have a very large bean-shaped continuous layout, and I've been building and testing my division yard off of that. I don't know if it's because I'm on the floor or it's the EZ Track or what, but lately I've been derailing left and right, freight cars picking switches regardless of speed, and shunting is a pain in the neck. 

I'm going to rebuild my run-around as a point to point with a different variant of the division yard and see how that does. Any good resources for designing a functional, operating railroad and incorporating some fun switching?

At the moment I can't decide if I want to buy an American steam locomotive (a BLI Hudson, since I don't think a Niagara can handle 18" curves), add DCC, and stick with my current plan, or go English and buy some coaches to go with the Hornby T9 I have. The T9 runs like a scalded cat at top speed and seems to handle the track fairly well, aside from the occasional stall.


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

Here are my suggestions, add lightness, in other words, start with less and add. A shelf railroad is great! Short reaches, easy to work on, set the height for you, build a stool for the little ones to use to see and operate. A point to point is fun with a lot of operating potential, that is what will keep the kids interested, operating! I started mine as a point to point mainline only. Then added industry/sidings in pairs, cattle to meat packing, elevator to food processing, and so on. Gives the railroad a reason to be. Your industries only need to be one siding with a building 'flat' on the wall.


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