# Switches, i need help



## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

I was at a train this past weekend and found a whole bunch of brass track that i needed. A lot of the switches did not have the machine with it, so i did not buy those. my first question is, what kind of machine would u put on a "y" switch or even a bigger switch? Also, my second question is, is it worth it to get a motor switch thing. if it is, how do u install it?? Thanks guys


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

What make were the turnouts? 

If Atlas, the 'motors' are pretty standard
and will fit on most Atlas turnouts. A Wye
turnout would use the same 'motor' as
any L or R. It only has only one set of points.

If the Wye you got doesn't have a motor
likely you could move one from a L or R turnout
and make it work.

Don


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

ok, i will look at it, but it wont be able to be in line with the track itself, because there is no straight area on the ''y''


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/Model-Power-Tortoise-Switch-Machine/dp/B001BHGHQM

could i use something like this??


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

atlas twin coil solenoid switches are pretty common, especially on ebay .. I think I have a bunch laying around someplace as well..


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Aminnich said:


> ok, i will look at it, but it wont be able to be in line with the track itself, because there is no straight area on the ''y''


The little solenoid motor doesn't care where the points end up. It simply moves it's little activating arm from one side to the other. As long as the arm has sufficient range of motion to move the points completely, it will work.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The Tortoise motor in your link is excellent for any turnout. It
uses a slow realistic movement of the points. It also
has a built in switch to control signal and panel lights.

Use a SPDT small switch to control is, not push buttons.

Don


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Just to clarify this discussion, there are basically two types of switch machines (other than various methods of manual throw):

- twin-coil solenoid type 
- motor driven

The Atlas (and similar) machines use solenoids, not motors.

Most motor-driven machines are under-table mounted devices like a Tortoise can be a slow-motion mechanism. The tortoise is a popular option. (Note, you can also mount these above the table if you fashion a horizontal connecting linkage between the throw bar and the switch machine's throw wire.)

Solenoid mechanisms like the Atlas machines apply momentary power and use an electromagnetic solenoid to throw the switch. These throw instantaneously with a distinct click.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

i saw a video where this guy put the tortoise inside the 2in. foam right under the track, if i would get tortoises, i think that i what i would do. Is that a good idea, or do u need to access them for any reason??? idk, i just learned about these yesterday. so if anyone has any comments, feels free to post them, thanks!


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

on my first layout, about eight or nine years ago, I used atlas remote switches, but bent the end of the actuator rod, and mounted them upside down underneath the turnouts.. worked well


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

could u post a picture of this setup?

also (sorry for all the posts), but do u think it is worth it to start out with tortoise switch machines? or do you think it is good enough just to use the switches next to the turnouts and use regular atlas switches?


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*compromise save a little money change is good though*

I feel or believe, it's good enough for now, and a little more cost effective. There is always
a compromise involved. Some things can be overlooked at first. Later on if something still bothers you. You'll be able to improve it later on. Sorry to have interrupted your discussion
Good luck to you though! 
Regards,tr1


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

here's the image you wanted .. pretty straight forward, bend the throw arm down towards the flat bottom of the twin solenoid switch at 90 degrees, length of bent portion appx 5/16 inch, check your turnouts first .
I did these for several reasons, cost being one .. but I had fairly tight track spacing, and I preferred to have the switch hidden because of better final appearance ...My layout was HD foam covered, and I just cut out the foam underneath for clearance, and ran the wires straight down through the foam and plywood ..the switch was positioned underneath the turnout, and held with a clamp to verify proper operation, then a little bit of hot glue to hold it in place, easily removable later on..atlas remote switch machines are less than tortoise or cobalt, but motor switches [as opposed to coil] do have a nice slow movement , my new [2nd] layout is all Caboose ground throws, and I like them ..


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Hidden turnout electrical devices*

Does any one here have an opinion on vertical standing, under the table turnout electrical devices?
That is some thing I think I might try some time. as my priorities lesson some what. The
Atlas above table remote turnout "motors" detract some what from realism, in my opinion.
Regard's,tr1


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

tr1 .. the tortoise's are nice, but i have never bought one, and slow motion [to me] looks better than a 'snap', depends on personal preference, and budget..atlas make a #65 switch for under table mount [1" max], and standard twin coil switches can be vertically mounted under a table with a wood angle adapter


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

To the original poster, the Atlas wye uses a right hand turnout switch machine.

TR1: I use only Atlas undertable switch machines for all my turnouts and they work great however they are hard to align by yourself.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Bwells is truly right.

Those Atlas under table machines are tricky to
correctly align.

I went to Peco Insulfrog turnouts with the PL10 twin
coil 'motor' attached to the turnout. This requires a
'hole' in the table a bit more than 1" square but it
eliminates the pesky fiddling around under the table.
You use a piece of card stock to cover the 'hole'
after installation.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Servomotors from Tam Valley Depot are a good alternative to Tortoise machines, and they are a little cheaper but with the same slow throwing, stall motor characteristics. The biggest single expense is the little circuit card you need to control them (about $35), but one card (the Octo III) will control 8 motors.

As always, the hard part is getting them aligned correctly. I created a jig that fit over the rails and down through the hole, showing you the orientation of the track.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Wow guys, thanks for all the comments! I have looked into the tortoise switch machines a little more and different methods to controls the track switch. I have a few more questions, but first let me give you background info first. I have a plywood table with a 2" foam board on top of it. I will have as many as 30 switches. And it is the first major layout, i am not buying the cheapest stuff, im buting stuff that will last, not just break. So, that bei siad, here ar some more questions... Do you think that it is worth getting tortoises for all the switches? Would something else work with the 2" foam board? (I have read different places that the foam is a problem with switch machines) and for the hidden yard, do you think I could just used the atlas switch machine for ontop of the table? Or do you think I should use tortoise for all the switches?

Sorry that's a lot, but a lot has been on my train mind


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

With the 2" foam you will need extended throw bars for any
machine under the table whether they be Tortoise or twin coil.
And if you use foam or cork track base it would need be longer.

However with that 2" foam you may be able to use the Peco PL10 attached
directly to the Peco turnout as I did. It would be simple to cut the approx.
1" square hole in the foam to accomodate it. Then you would only 
need drill a small hole for the control wires. That would also
eliminate all alignment problems and under table fiddling.

The PL10 is a twin coil machine that snaps the points while
the Tortoise uses a motor to slowly move them. 

The Peco turnouts are top quality and you will not be having
turnout caused derailments when them on your layout. I
have more than 20 of them. They are slightly more costly
than Atlas but vastly better made. I would use them
exclusively.

Get one Peco turnout with the PL10 machine and do a test
installation in your foam and see if it works to your
satisfaction. If it does it'll save you a lot of discomfort.

Don


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Peco-HO-N-PL10-Turnout-Motor-p/pec-pl10.htm

Is this what your talking about?


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## Buffalojoe (Jan 28, 2015)

Mmmm... Interesting thread. So use the Peco swiitch machine PL-10 for the Peco turnouts. Great. Ok now for the Caboose industries groundthrows, which for the Atlas and which for the Peco? Oh, and I have Model Power remote controll turnouts for my consealed, but accessable staging tracks, they came with the switch machines mounted and they are slim. But model power is gone?


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

Mmmm... Sure the Peco pl10 will work great for Peco turnouts and the Caboose ground throws should work with anything and your remote switches are the way to go with hidden staging but what is your question?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Aminnich said:


> http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Peco-HO-N-PL10-Turnout-Motor-p/pec-pl10.htm
> 
> Is this what your talking about?


Yes, it states they are for N and HO
turnouts. As it comes, you can attach it to the bottom
of the Peco turnout, or at least you can on the HO
turnouts, I have to assume the N's are identically
designed. There are small tabs on the PL10 that slip into slots
on the turnout. You bend them over. No screws.

As I've said, you will need an approx 1" square
hole in your table to use the Turnout/machine
together. To me, that's still easier than crawling
around under the table trying to align the machines
correctly.

Buffalo Joe, hasn't Model Power become a part of Walthers? You might
check their web site. The PL10 mounted under table needs a PL-9 bracket
and depending on the table/foam thickness perhaps the PL10E extended
throw bar version.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

People who say there are problems with the tortoise machines and 2" foam need to think out of the box a little. No, as purchased, they generally will not reach, but there are just so many different ways to overcome that small hiccup.

My personal preference is to install a small wire crank under the turnout, but that's far from the only solution.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

will the peco switch machine work on Altas turnouts?


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Not really, the Peco turnouts have small slots in the turnout to mount the PL10 switch machine. Atlas doesn't have any slots. There are ways to use them with Atlas but not very good ways and you have to get an adapter to do so. 

Magic


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Magic

You are right about the slots in the Peco turnouts that
accept tabs on the Peco PL-10 motor. That is the 
way I use my Pecos. It does require that you cut a 1 inch
square hole in the table to accomodate the motor.

However, Peco offers an under the table adapter that would enable
the PL-10 to be used with Atlas or other make turnouts.
The PL-10 E uses an extended throwbar that may be
needed when used under the table.

Don


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

The big problem with using PL10s with non Peco turnouts is that the PL10 doesn't have much travel so they need to be positioned very carefully or they won't throw the points far enough. Don't ask me how I know this but I have two of them on my layout.

Magic


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