# Turnout Problems



## drooniem (Jul 24, 2013)

The construction of the Chillicothe Subdivision of my ATSF layout is moving along nicely, but I’ve hit a few snags. Hope you guys have the fix. I’m modeling in HO gauge and using all PECO track with electrofrogs. I’m having some problems at some turnouts. All my TOs are on double layers of 3/16” cork glued flat to the plywood benchwork. The first one is at a #8 TO where I’ve got a dead spot (it worked fine at first). My diesels pause, losing the DCC momentarily, then start up again depending on speed. It seems to occur at or near the frog. I’ve not made the cut on the exit sides of the frog yet (straight & diverging), and at those exit ends past the frog are insulated joiners to separate two power zones. The turnout is not fed by the buss yet, but gets its power from the live line leading into it through rail connecters. I run a 4-8-4 Northern (Broadway Limited) loco through the same TO and have derail problems, also near the frog. It seems like the drive wheels lift the loco when they reach the frog causing it to derail. It’s like the flangeway isn’t deep enough causing the wheel flange to lift the loco. I’ve checked the tolerances of rails, wheel flanges, flangeways, etc. with the gauge and all seems right, but I’m pretty much a novice. I’ve also got some hesitations at a few #6 TOs, but only at slow speeds.
The second problem spot is also a #8 TO. The same 4-8-4 loco entering on the straight track hits something (wham), stops dead and flops on its side, tender and all. I check all TOs before installing them, using criteria in a recent MR article and rarely find anything to adjust (an occasional burr on a rail end). PECO track has been great to work with.
These problems have me stumped, so please help.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Lots of possible reasons.

One quick check. Are the trip pins on your couplers (assuming you have knuckle couplers), bent properly so that they are at least 1/32" above the rails. If they are hanging down they could catch in the turnouts and cause catastrophic derailment.

One other quick check. Are you using code 83 or 70 track with an older loco with wheel flanges designed for code 100 track?

And one more... Any loose screws on the bottom of the loco that are hanging down? That happened to me once on a diesel.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Peco Electrofrogs require that your track power feed must be
on what they call the 'toe' (non frog) end. That is where the switch gets
the power that is conducted to the frog. It may be that the Peco
switch is not getting power to feed the frog.

You may need to install new track drops at that point.

Here is my handy dandy way to find out why something
derails:

Run the loco AS SLOW AS IT WILL GO to the point where it
is derailing. Have a bright light and get as down and close as
you can to the track. Now watch the wheels, when you see
one start to lift, STOP. Repeat a few times, if it is
always a specific spot, that is where your problem is. Usually
a vertical misalignment of the rails, but could also be an
out of gauge issue. 

As to the sudden mechanical stop, this is another problem that
close eye ball contact should resolve. Use the same test above.

Don


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## drooniem (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks guys. I never thought about the trip pins. I have eyeballed things from up close and have narrowed the derail down to the frog, but I can't tell what's causing it. I'll keep checking. The switch is powered from the toe end that's why I can't seem to isolate the problem. Another question... can I power the TO from underneath at the two solder connections designed into the PECO turnouts? Seems to me it should work fine.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Not clear why you want to do this.

If you are referring to the visible copper straps under
the turnout itself, you could use your multimeter to
determine which is which and very carefully solder
to them, but remember that plastic melts quickly.

Maybe a safer way to power the frog would be metal
joiners on the frog rails with drop wires soldered
to them. This would require, though, that you cut
through the adjoining rails to avoid the short circuit.

What motor are you using to throw the points? Peco
makes a switch to power the frogs with its PL10
under table motors.

Don


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