# Ballast question



## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

I heard some of the ballast is made from ground up walnut shells. I also have seen real rock sold as ballast. My question is, with the real rock is it harder to get the white glue to hold it down because of the weight or does it make it easier?


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

I dont think so at all. As long as you break the surface tension with a 50/50 mix of water/alcohol you will be fine.

I used what i found outside so its somewhat heavy/harder like you say. It glued down like a solid rock. Elmers glue is good stuff!

Here is some pics of my homemade stuff


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

midnightmadman29 said:


> I heard some of the ballast is made from ground up walnut shells. I also have seen real rock sold as ballast. My question is, with the real rock is it harder to get the white glue to hold it down because of the weight or does it make it easier?



I got real rock on my O and white glue holds them fine. I just brush on the glue to the table, then as I put the rock down I use an eye dropper and drip it on. 
I tried spray bottles but never had any luck with them as they all just clogged after a while.

I tried adding a picture but it would not upload, I think it has something to do with the site change over.


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

joed2323 said:


> I dont think so at all. As long as you break the surface tension with a 50/50 mix of water/alcohol you will be fine.
> 
> I used what i found outside so its somewhat heavy/harder like you say. It glued down like a solid rock. Elmers glue is good stuff!
> 
> Here is some pics of my homemade stuff


OMG that looks awesome. That's the exact look for ballast I am after, sort of granite color. I have a place that sells Granite Sand, but its too much of a mix in size with fine stuff in it. Can you get anymore of that stuff you used?


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Thank you for the kind comments! Ive had a few people comment on the ballast i used. Atleast i did something right 

That mix in size your talking about, i had the same problem with this stuff, there was coarse and fine mixed in. All i did to remove the coarse material is run it through a window screen!

I took a bucket or coffee can will work. and taped the window screen onto the coffee can, make sure you leave a dip into the screen (center of can) so the material doesnt fall off the screen that easy when you are sifting. Just start pouring hand fulls of the material onto the screen/can, and just work it back and fourth on the screen with a sanding motion. The finer material will fall through the screen and the coarse material will stay above the screen. Just dump the coarse material into a different container and repeat the process.

I did this method sifting approximately a 5 gallon bucket so far. It takes alittle bit of time, but its worth it.


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

joed2323 said:


> Thank you for the kind comments! Ive had a few people comment on the ballast i used. Atleast i did something right
> 
> That mix in size your talking about, i had the same problem with this stuff, there was coarse and fine mixed in. All i did to remove the coarse material is run it through a window screen!
> 
> ...


So what exactly is that rock from? It cant just be natural off the ground right?


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

The trucking company i use to work for, my boss also did construction. He had a few different gravel piles. He got this stuff from someone, and he still has a good size pile of this material. Its a very fine type of stone, actually im not sure what they use it for? But My boss let me take a few 5 gallon buckets of this stuff home with me ( it helps when your the shop foreman)

I realized right away this stuff would make awesome ballast for my layout, but it was mixed with coarse and fine material. So i just sifted it to a finer grade for my layout.

It sure is nice having 5 gallon buckets of this stuff on hand

I could take a picture of what the material looks like unsifted? It compares to the coarse ballast you can fine from woodland scenics, so its already very small stuff. Honestly i have no clue what they could use this stuff for doing construction, it just seems way to small for anything

I really think a person could actually find the same stuff if the just look at gravel pits, where they have different grades of material. nine times out of ten, if you ask a person they will let you take some for free if not charge you a small fee, unless you make a midnight run of course


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

I think you really lucked out with that particular mix of color. The stuff I can get is more of a white & gray mix, but its more of a true crushed granite.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

midnightmadman- is the stuff you can get expensive, if not go for it! Its awesome to use things in my opinion that are cheap or free, try and save money for the more expensive items like locos


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Just remember, once you get the ballast where you want it to spray it with alcohol and water before you add the glue. If not the glue will not flow in to the rocks and just make a big mess.


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

I found something really nice at petsmart for $19 for a 20lbs bag! Its an off white/gray mix. Perfect size too.
It looks just like granite.. Check it out. Anyone think it may be a little too light colored?


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

In this image you can see really good that what I found is almost and exact match.


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

Test area


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I embedded the pictures and made the external link a reasonable size.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Im sorry, but i think its way too white colored. This is just my opinion though so please do not take offense to it.

Can you try maybe adding more color to those rocks?? Spray half of them a grayish color and leave the other half the way they are, then mix them equally together. This may get you a better looking ballast. This is even if you can paint them.

The ballast i see locally where i live, actually has different color rocks.

But really, all that matters is what looks good to you, as long as you like it then thats all that matters... Everyone has different tastes


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Just dye them a color?

Hey nephew Joed, wasn't it your picture of the ballast that sparkled?

I can't find the picture, maybe it was someone else?
I liked that.:thumbsup:


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

joed2323 said:


> Im sorry, but i think its way too white colored. This is just my opinion though so please do not take offense to it.
> 
> Can you try maybe adding more color to those rocks?? Spray half of them a grayish color and leave the other half the way they are, then mix them equally together. This may get you a better looking ballast. This is even if you can paint them.
> 
> The ballast i see locally where i live, actually has different color rocks/


I'm looking for feedback. I am on the fence with the color. I love the texture and shape. It looks whiter in the pic. I was thinking of dusting half or more with a gray spray primer in a bin and mixing it up.


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

nice find midnightman.

If its a bit light for your liking you could always touch it up with some paint after its down... 

or even better put a few drops of paint in with the glue & water mix for an even tint for when you're securing the ballast (add a couple drops of dishwashing liquid or metho to break the surface tension and help it make its way thru all the ballast pile)


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Southern said:


> Just remember, once you get the ballast where you want it to spray it with alcohol and water before you add the glue. If not the glue will not flow in to the rocks and just make a big mess.



On my O ballast I just used a 50/50 mix of white glue and it worked fine. No alcohol.
I would have to chisel it to get it off.

Maybe a smaller ballast in HO or N would make a mess? Though I have done the same with HO and it worked fine.
But like I said, I don't use a spray bottle no matter what kind I use they always clog up. I gave up on them.
I never did N ballast yet.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I put down the ballast on my modular club modules with 50/50 white glue & water as well, and they're there for the duration!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

There are some products for weathering that would work if you spray them with it. They are real thin I guess they are alcohol and ink mixed.

I think that spraying them with paint won't work as the paint is too thick?

I know what you mean about the camera making them look too white, if they look good to you use them.

Try taking a picture without the flash, using some other light.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

big ed said:


> I don't use a spray bottle no matter what kind I use they always clog up


I do not put the glue in the spray bottle, just the alcohol and water. If I do not use it first the ballast will clump up when the water/glue mix is applied.


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

The bloke I saw ballasting while at a train show, was using a large plastic syringe (almost what you'd use for sheep I reckon) to apply his 50/50 mix of water/glue (With a few drops of either metho or dishwashing liquid to break surface tension)

It looked like a great way to apply it, no real mess, and you could get it where you wanted it.
He was ballasting N scale, and just ran the syringe down the middle of the rails, and it seemed to seep thru the pile quite well. I think for HO/O you might need to do a run down the middle of the tracks and maybe a squeeze each side of the rails too.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

uncle ed, if you look back on page one i posted pictures, i have others if your looking for a specific picture
uncle ed- you commented on the tree discussion thread, and wanted me to post pics of my trees, i did and you never seen them or just never commented on those either, what gives ?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

joed2323 said:


> uncle ed, if you look back on page one i posted pictures, i have others if your looking for a specific picture
> uncle ed- you commented on the tree discussion thread, and wanted me to post pics of my trees, i did and you never seen them or just never commented on those either, what gives ?


One picture you had they really sparkled.:thumbsup:

I go back and look through your threads but half the pictures are gone, that is why I don't like using Photo bucket to post in a thread.

Trees? I don't know I guess I get busy with other threads.
Trees??? I do remember something about home made trees right?

Now I got to go and search, you should have added a link.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

I will do some searching now just for you uncle ed:smilie_daumenpos:

I will try and go back to my thread and update, fill in those blanks if possible

Any of these ring a bell??








































this is pictures from down the road from my house, i was trying to use a color ballast like this, but its hard to see the actual color in these pictures


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Here is a shot of some rocks and track from my yard.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

That looks good southern! What color paint did you use for the middle of the tracks? Nice added touch


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

joed2323 said:


> I will do some searching now just for you uncle ed:smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> I will try and go back to my thread and update, fill in those blanks if possible
> 
> Any of these ring a bell??


No? Maybe it was someone else I was thinking about.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Thanks. it is not paint. Before I glued it I added woodland's "ballast, medium cinders". The water is WS's EZ water.


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

I really like the black cinders, i personally think it looks better then using paint very nice:thumbsup:


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

If you guys were me and there was a chance of moving at some point to a different house etc moving the display, would you hold of ballast or still do it? Would it get ruined in a move?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the ballast is secured properly, it should stay put. It sticks to our modular club modules pretty well in the moves.


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks. So I want to make sure I'm doing it right, put the ballast down where I want it loose, then just mix alcohol, dish washing soap and water with a sprayer and spray it. Then mix 50/50 water and elmers glue and spray and soak the ballast completely?
Does any kind of adhesive mix go down first before laying the loose ballast?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nope, just what you described and it should dry rock solid!


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

Cool. Will that same method work for doing a natural dirt area?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I haven't tried it with dirt, I'd do a small section and make sure the glue doesn't make the dirt look odd. The thing about ballast is it has some volume to it, dirt is pretty small granules.


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## midnightmadman29 (Nov 2, 2012)

Im thinking of using a fine sand for the dirt area


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd just do a sample, then you'll know how it works. I suspect a sand would probably work, after all the N-scale guys do ballast.


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

midnightmadman29 said:


> Thanks. So I want to make sure I'm doing it right, put the ballast down where I want it loose, then just mix alcohol, dish washing soap and water with a sprayer and spray it. Then mix 50/50 water and elmers glue and spray and soak the ballast completely?
> Does any kind of adhesive mix go down first before laying the loose ballast?


the guy i saw applying ballast had the glue & water + metho/dishwashing liquid all in the same container. applying directly to dry ballast... with a large syringe

saves an extra step.


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