# Major 022 Switch Problem



## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

There is a four tooth gear at the bottom of the lantern holder. The gear has jumped a tooth where it engages the mating plate. How does one get it back to the correct position without bending the hell of of the surrounding brackets ??? From what I see is that there is no way possible for the gear to jump a tooth. The tooth fairy did it ? The switch works correctly in one position but does not quite make it in the other.

Bruce


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

inxy said:


> There is a four tooth gear at the bottom of the lantern holder. The gear has jumped a tooth where it engages the mating plate. How does one get it back to the correct position without bending the hell of of the surrounding brackets ??? From what I see is that there is no way possible for the gear to jump a tooth. The tooth fairy did it ? The switch works correctly in one position but does not quite make it in the other.
> 
> Bruce



I never fooled with them. Check out this thread, full of pictures.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=1050&highlight=switch


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the mechanism is loose enough for it to jump a tooth, you need to get it back in sync and then fix that.

You can lift that side of the lamp holder and jiggle the tooth back in place, then you'll need to bend the lamp holder down to where it can't jump a tooth. You may need to tighten the rivets after you bend the lampholder.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

About what I figured. Actually the mechanism is not loose or loose enough to cause the problem. The switch, an ebay special, is not badly worm, so I blame the tooth fairy or as my wife would say "A Ghost Did It".

B


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, you'd be surprised what can happen in those.  Between myself and *servoguy*, we've probably reconditioned about 150 of these, and I suspect between us have seen most of the common and not so common issues.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I disconnected the slide from the weight in the coil. With this free you can push the slide to where the lamp will rotate by a tooth, Then you hook it back up.

The piece is in the center. Bend and lift. You may have to disconnect the slide on the right too.










Pushing the slide forward will give you the clearance to match the teeth.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Fixed - two small screw drivers and some prying and bingo ! Small hammer and punch to bend the stuff back. I case anybody is looking for a 1/8" nut driver for removing the back plate crews, Wiha Tools http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/265serie.htm makes a set 3/32 to 1/4 or you can buy them individually. Home Depot doesn't have anything small enough. Thanks for the replies.

B


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a complete set of the Wiha tools for that very reason!  I went "whole hog" and got the metric and SAE set of 8 drivers each. A little known fact is there was actually two different sizes of hex screws holding the bottom plate on 022 switches, it was a surprise to me when I encountered it.  I paid $32 each for the two sets.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

You got a deal on the nut drivers. Ran across the two sizes of hex screws and this afternoon two switchs with slotted screws. The boys need to make up their minds.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I got tired of fooling around with pliers taking them apart and opted for the set of drivers. While I was at it, I got the metric set as well.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have been using flat nose pliers to remove the screws, and it is a bit of a hassle, but I am not willing to spend a lot of money for tools that I am not going to use very often. I would rather buy more trains. With that said, I am kinda a tool freak with a big roll around in the garage mostly filled with tools for working on cars. The flat nose pliers work better than needle nose.

inxy, I wrote a long post about fixing 022 switchs on the www.trains forum. I posted a link to it on this forum. I suggest you read it before you screw your switches down. There are instructions in the post that tell you how to make sure the lantern holder gear does not skip a tooth. Some of the switches I restored had poor tolerances and the lamp holder and so would allow the lantern holder to get out of sync.

BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A link to that post here would be useful.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/164691.aspx?PageIndex=1


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

BTW, I need to read this post before I do any more switches to make sure I don't miss anything.
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks for the link, it's handy to have it when we're discussing this.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

You rework way too many switches !!?! Long, long post but well worth the read. Eventually I'll 'm working on.be trying the replace the lantern holder thing. I've got two of them broke off at the base. 

I'm a tool nut - have one for everything except for the project that I currently working on. Another trip to my favorite tool store.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I soldered a couple of these in after drilling out the old one, they work fine. I have one that refuses to function correctly after the same treatment, it's slightly off-center. I think I'm going to have to start over on that one.

I see the rivets are available for these, I might try fresh rivets for one, of course that means I'd have to also redo the lamp holder.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, I think soldering the old rivet in place is the best approach. Riveting the lantern holder would require removing the lamp holder. Then the job starts to approach real work. Solder is quick and easy. I have been salvaging lantern holders from 021 manual switches. And if I ever wanted to resurrect one of the old manual controllers, it would be easy enough to do. 

I did have a new lantern holder that was distorted, and the lantern wasn't upright. I got it replaced. I have used two plastic lantern holders, and I don't recommend them. You cannot solder the rivet in place because it melts the plastic unless you work very fast. I did manage to use them, but it took extra time. 

I think one thing that I should add to the post is to check the sliding contacts to make sure they have adequate contact pressure. I think I gave a procedure for testing them, but didn't recommend that all of them be tested when the switch motor is apart.

BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I realize you have to take the lamp holder off, but I do have the nifty rivet tool now, so I ordered the matching rivets, and I'm going to try it and see. It may be an aborted attempt, who knows. 

I have my old contact bending tools from my pinball days, they're great for adjusting the tension on those contacts.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I bend the contact springs by putting a knife blade under them with the sharp edge toward the rivet and then bending them near the blunt edge of the knife blade. I used to have a contact spring bending tool from Bell Labs, but that was many years ago, and I haven't seen it in years. 

BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I found my set inside one of the pinball machines in the basement, I knew I had that somewhere!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Nothing like putting it in an obvious place. Why do you have pinball machines taking up valuable space for trains? LOL
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the one that has an electronic board failure is probably going to move so I can build the big platform. Of course, I also have to buy a flat screen TV to put on the wall to free up the corner where the TV currently sits. It's getting so the trains are the cheap part of the conversion!


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

*Unbeleiveable happens*

So after bench testing a switch and taking it apart three time to find a short I can't find one - checks out on the bench. Put it back in the layout and I have my short gain. After serious eyeballing I find a center rail with a insulator missing on the third piece of track from the switch. Unbelievable !

I'm jealous. I don't have a pinball machine. A lover of the old style games.

B


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bummer, I've found a number of track pieces with the insulators either missing or slipped, it'll drive you nuts. I found one of my bumpers on the trolley track with a screw wedged under it shorting the track. The trolley actually ran about half way down the track, but the smell of hot wires convinced me I had to go looking for it. 

I have three pinball machines, but the one has died and the boards are way too expensive to consider trying to repair it. I still have StarTrek and Haunted House in working condition.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

I bought some brand new track from a local hobby store, and after an hour of saying 'WTF?' when I kept getting a short, I discovered the same problem. Missing insulators in the middle rail.

I think we all need to go play at Gunrunnerjohn's house! Trains, pinball, TV! That's one heck of a basement.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We have a Wii and a pool table too. 

Wait, I forgot the air hockey table.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

That tears it. I'm heading to PA for the weekend. ;-)


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I use old PW track, and almost never have a problem with shorts.
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

PW track?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

erkenbrand said:


> That tears it. I'm heading to PA for the weekend. ;-)


Did I mention we charge admission?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Did I mention we charge admission?



And a surf and turf dinner, with all the beer you can drink will be included with the admission. Right John?

Door prizes too.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sure, glad you didn't ask what the admission was.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

PW = post war


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> PW = post war


Yep, I finally figured it out.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Another gem. Reconditioning thirteen 022 switches. Just found one with a die cast metal cover that goes over the switch motor and contact unit. Attached by #10 flat head machine screws. Screws are factory as holes for screws are stamped to fit screw diameter and head. Any idea to how old the switch is ?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have one of those switches, also. It has to be very old, probably from the first production run or runs. Any idea when Lionel started making 022 switches?

Bruce Baker


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> I have one of those switches, also. It has to be very old, probably from the first production run or runs. Any idea when Lionel started making 022 switches?


Bruce,

David Doyle's book says, "022 Remote Control Switches: although extensively redesigned after WWII, these turnout retained the same catalog number as their prewar counterparts throughout their 1945-66 production."

So, postwar form from 1945. Not sure about beginning of prewar form.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a couple with the cast covers, they are the oldest production from what I understand.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Looking at Tandem's ID Guide: http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_022_track.htm is no help for age of switch. The page says it is a postwar switch as silver id plate on switch "0 Gauge Switch". I do have a switch that reads "Auto Control 1 1/4 Gauge Switch. Outside of the markings and the motor housing material, all of the switches look the same. Olsen's list a cast switch motor cover (Lionel 711-42) for $9.00. So still at square one for id'ing the age.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

It may be that the information is lost in antiquity. 

BB


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have some manual levers and they have a metal cover. Did they ever come in plastic?

I don't know if I have a metal cover for the motor assy.?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have some for the 042 (manual) switches, and they are all metal.

BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I'm sure it came before the Bakelite or plastic covers.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

After and hour plus on google it seems the 022 switch was introduced in the mid 1930's.
Below a couple of ads from 1926 for the first Lionel switch:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CC...jgK#v=onepage&q=lionel switch history&f=false

I settle for the mid 30's and give up on further switch history search. Time to play with the trains.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...pg=1714,902810&dq=lionel+switch+history&hl=en


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Does that say model 222?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The 223 was a standard gage non derailing switch, 1933.
The 222 was also a Standard Gage remote switch offered with the O Gage remote 012, 1930.
Distant Control was the discription. Taken from Lionel Past Catalogs.
WIth missing years the first distan controled standard gage switch was listed in 1929.


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