# BACHMANN STEAMERS



## billoberst (Sep 21, 2011)

Has anyone had a problem with Bachmann Steam Engines jamming up after running a while. I can take it off the track and turn it upside down then it usually starts running OK for a while. I sent one back to Bachmann service and they replaced he mechanism. This is the 3rd Bachmann engine I've had to do this. Bill


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Bachman still hasn't fully recovered their reputation from the scheise they produced in the past. Not that they had a good reputation to begin with. I hear good things about their diesel offerings, but I would not buy a
steam locomotive with that name on the box.

I really wouldn't buy any Bachmann product or anything else made in China for that matter.


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## The IC Mailman (Sep 19, 2020)

Bought a Bachman GS4 4-8-4 and tender last summer. Been running just fine. One of the wires connecting the loco to the tender has pulled out. Doesn't seem to have affected anything. I'm only running DC now.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

A wire pulling out? Well there you go. That supports my statement.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Their Spectrums are working fine for me.


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## GeeTee (Dec 23, 2020)

if its the old pancake motor models , Bachmann = Temporarily Powered Static Model. A lot of those went straight from the box to the trash can. They had clockwork type mechnism that was the envy every Swiss watchmaker , they perfected the "collapsible " nylon gear. A gear was so thin (and spring loaded) that under even light loads it would collapse and bind. You turn it over and "diddle" with it , put it back down it i runs . 

It sounds like you maybe experiencing this technological marvel. In fact it was so revolutionary , I have only been able to make one slight improvement and that was by placing one inside a trash can and leaving there.


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## billoberst (Sep 21, 2011)

GeeTee said:


> if its the old pancake motor models , Bachmann = Temporarily Powered Static Model. A lot of those went straight from the box to the trash can. They had clockwork type mechnism that was the envy every Swiss watchmaker , they perfected the "collapsible " nylon gear. A gear was so thin (and spring loaded) that under even light loads it would collapse and bind. You turn it over and "diddle" with it , put it back down it i runs .
> 
> It sounds like you maybe experiencing this technological marvel. In fact it was so revolutionary , I have only been able to make one slight improvement and that was by placing one inside a trash can and leaving there.





MichaelE said:


> Bachman still hasn't fully recovered their reputation from the scheise they produced in the past. Not that they had a good reputation to begin with. I hear good things about their diesel offerings, but I would not buy a
> steam locomotive with that name on the box.
> 
> I really wouldn't buy any Bachmann product or anything else made in China for that matter.


I also have 2 Bachman Spectrum 2 truck Climax's that have plastic gears and are suffering from split gears in the truck drive assemblies these were purchased new and only used for display with my log cars. A couple of gears split just sitting on the display shelf just like some older lifelike diesels but at least I could get replacement gears to fix them, I hate to give up on Bachmann but they take up to much of my leisure time trying to get them working. Bill


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I hate trashing any brand, but Bachmann has had a deservedly bad rep for as long as I can remember.
My Bachmann Geeps are detailed pretty nicely out-of-the-box, and I've added details to them to bring them up to snuff, but keeping them running has been a challenge.
Add to that, most of them are grossly underpowered.
Now many of their DCC units are glitching with electronic noises.
Jeez!


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

After years of suffering through the "cheap" Bachmanns I hate being put in the position of defending them. But aside from drawbar issues with one I have had good luck with their Spectrums and Hawthorne Village examples. They are all good runners, nicely detailed and boxed. The On30's run especially well, smooth, quiet with exceptional tractability. The Disney example was bought at a flea market for $5.00. The Christmas trains run so well i bought two. The F7A, also Hawthorne Village is nicely detailed and runs as good as any. Same for the Spectrum K4.

Sorry for the lousy pictures, just pictured them as they lay.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I only have one Bachmann steamer -- a 2-6-2 on which the side rods got bent somehow, and the (plastic) valve gear guide got bent, so the piston rod has come out of the cylinder. Not sure which caused which, and can't rule out my fat fingers, either.

Bachmann's newer offerings have been fine, mechanically (they are, I think, using cut-rate decoders, though). Problem is that there is a lot of older stuff out there being sold as "new, old stock". They also suffer a bit from trying to maintain dominance in the lower end of the market -- that is, keeping the cost of their locos down.


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## GeeTee (Dec 23, 2020)

The "collapsible" gear





















The motor drives the outside ring with a brass pinion. Any load from the wheels on the gears center pinion causes the "spokes" to "wrap up" pulling the outer ring in or at least distorting the out ring enough to cause lock up or chewing of the teeth by the motor pinion. I think this locomotive had less than 4 hours on it. 

Its a shame because the shell was highly detailed. The only thing you could really do was stick it on a Bowser drive.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

i have had exactly zero problems with bachmann steamers ....none at all, over ten locomotives, over eight years, zero ..
methinks you are doing something wrong ??


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

This thread gave me the incentive to get out most of the Bachmann's that I have and run them. It's been awhile but I did run the Christmas train last month. All ran great, but the new in the box 4-4-0 was a little balky. The Disney novelty locomotive didn't run at all, until I noticed I set it up on the wrong track. The Doodlebug is a pleasure, lighted coach and easy to set on the track with realistic speed. But the hit's are the little 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 they are just so darn cute chugging around the track.


































































Now I have to clean up this mess.


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## billoberst (Sep 21, 2011)

No one seems to make those neat little engines except Bachmann now if they would just remove this Bachmann curse off me I'll purchase a few more. Bill


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

rsv1ho said:


> Now I have to clean up this mess.
> 
> View attachment 552161


What mess?


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

I guess I've been lucky. I haven't had any issues with Bachmann steamers, but I do stick with the Spectrums or whatever today's equivalent is called.

ETA: But I don't run trains that much. My layout is fairly small, so there's only so much running you can do. When/if I get the yard expansion built maybe that will change.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

flyboy2610 said:


> What mess?


 

Ok, so I'm sort of a neat nick. A place for everything and everything in it's place. 

I have to put all those locomotives back in their boxes, hate that! And I had cleared the tracks to run all those Bachmanns through the switches and spurs so I have to position all those locomotives/cars I removed back on the track and locate all those wheels. Hate that worse. Got no rerailer.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

If you are referring to Bachmann diesel and even other makes of diesels, sometimes a loose spike or small nail/screw will get stuck vertically in the speaker grill on the bottom due to the speaker's magnet..This in turn leads to the offending metal grabbing the crosstie in the track and holding the loco from moving ... 
This happened several times with my RS3 until I learned to recognize it...
Other than this I have 4 DCC HO Bachmann locos; the RS3, a 4-6-0, a 4-4-0, and a 2-6-0..They all have excellent running quality and details and never a problem..
Who ever thinks Bmann is junk is remembering their early years.. Today's Bachmann are some of the best out there...
M


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## GeeTee (Dec 23, 2020)

wvgca said:


> i have had exactly zero problems with bachmann steamers ....none at all, over ten locomotives, over eight years, zero ..
> methinks you are doing something wrong ??


You just haven't been around long enough. There was huge industry shift back in the late 80's when Atlas had Kato produce the RS3 . Up until that time everthing was produced to the lowest common denominator. If you wanted something that ran decent you repowered it. Since the RS-3 was an Alco it was considered to be a low volume seller , But then something miraculous happened when Atlas had Kato produce the RS3 , people who didn't even like Alcos or modeled more modern railroads , had to have them , Standard Hobby couldn't keep them on the shelves even with list and sales prices twice that of Athearn . 

Bachmann had one or two locomotives that looked ok but the drives were crap , Bower produce repowering mechs for them . Atlas was selling so many locomotives that Stewart contracted Kato for drive components for their U25 and that locomotive was fairly popular. 

In the early 90's Bachmann belatedly introduced the Spectrum K4 and a set of passenger cars , The cars were some the best passenger cars produced at the time ( I have about 10) , The locomotive mech was still not up to the level of OL's Power House , but it was a big improvement over previous Bachmann locomotives and sold well , I think Bowser produced a repower for these for a little while . 

Since the late 80's early 90's Bachmann has been under pressure to improve , in order to stay in the marketplace. 

One of the biggest problems with the earlier Bachmann's was you couldn't just repower them , you had to replace the whole mech and even then to get something that ran really good. you needed to add an NWSL box and a good can motor . By the time you did all that it it was cheaper to buy brass . The only way it made sense to repower the Bachmann is if you got it for nothing or already had one. 

Prior to that , Bachmann's main competition was Tyco, Model Power ,Life Like , all trying to produce as cheaply as possible , They're all gone now , Bachmann is the only one left , They were the only one that was willing to change I guess.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The "old" Life-Like is gone.....sort of.....Life-Like was bought by Walthers, so in effect, it lives on, albeit it's much better (Walthers Proto) now.....


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Nice analysis GT. But from my experience, in the race to the bottom I think Tyco was the hands down winner with Life Like a close second. But, Life Like had redemption with their Proto 2000 series a worthy competitor to Athearn in my opinion. I prize my examples.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

I have two Bachmann steamers, one is this Ten-Wheeler I got second hand. Aside from the fact that tender drive feels like cheating it is a good runner and surprising puller:








Second is this Niagara I got off Amazon six months ago. The only issue I've had is with the lead tender truck derails occasionally on switches, maybe some extra weight would help. 








On both of them I wish the drive rods were a little brighter, not much point in having them if you can't see them.


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## GeeTee (Dec 23, 2020)

rsv1ho said:


> Nice analysis GT. But from my experience, in the race to the bottom I think Tyco was the hands down winner with Life Like a close second. But, Life Like had redemption with their Proto 2000 series a worthy competitor to Athearn in my opinion. I prize my examples.


I have about 8 protos 2Es 6FAs and one proto caboose, The FAs the drive had some minor issues , the shells were a cut above Athearn . 
I 'm not sure if Tyco won or if Model Power won. Model Power had a decent drive in that Roco made FA and Sharknose , but somewhere along the way they switched to Tempo? I have couple Model Power N6b cabooses .


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

*MMurv2*
Please see my prior post, #18. 

Don't know if will absolutely solve the visual problem, but get a tiny bottle of 'chrome' enamel paint and paint one rod and see what happens. Spray is a no-no unless you first removed all the action from the drivers/pistons....
I have the same 4-4-0 and 4-6-0, DCC/Sound, and they are perfect little gems in all respects !* M*


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

GeeTee said:


> The "collapsible" gear
> 
> View attachment 552124
> 
> ...


GeeTee; 

Under the old "there's a prototype for everything" idea, The Milwaukee Road bought some electric locomotives from Westinghouse which had "quill" drive axles. The outer tube was connected to the driving wheels, and the traction motors drove a center "quill" that was not directly attached to the outer tube axle. Instead springs were installed between the inner and outer axles, the idea being to smooth out some of the stresses of starting a heavy train on a grade with this very powerful locomotive. Guess what. They broke down a lot. Maybe Bachmann's collapsible gear is sorta based on a quill drive?

Traction Fan 😄


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I like my Bachman locos. I have an 0-6-0t a 2-10-2 a 2-10-4 a 4-8-4 and the doodlebug. The doodlebug is the only one I have issues with and it’s got the cracked gear clunk. Once the drive dies it will get a Stanton drive from nwsl and I’ll call that good enough. The older bachman locos I had as a kid are all long thrown away due to said watch mechanism. I only have one on a static display I built and weathered the crap out of to put on my fireplace diorama


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Deleted by me.


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## NickelPlate759 (Jul 8, 2011)

I joined here nearly 10 years ago, but I've never posted. I just saw this in an email digest, so I thought I'd take a crack at it. 😏



GeeTee said:


> The "collapsible" gear
> 
> View attachment 552124
> 
> ...


I'll take that gear if you don't want it. 🙂 I also like these Reading I-10's, and I restore them, including re-quartering the split driver axles. The reduction gear you're pointing out was a late design change to reduce the inevitable gear noise produced by the pinion meshing with it. Removing plastic and creating spiral spokes made them much less resonant than when they were solid, which is why I prefer them. I've never had one collapse or skip, as they are quite solid unless broken. If it's bending, something is very wrong with it.

But those reduction gears were solid for most of their production run, so it shouldn't be hard to find an alternate one in a junker. I think they were used interchangeably in their larger steamers.



Murv2 said:


> I have two Bachmann steamers, one is this Ten-Wheeler I got second hand. Aside from the fact that tender drive feels like cheating it is a good runner and surprising puller:
> View attachment 552222


That 4-6-0 is a Frateschi made in Brazil. They also made a 2-8-0 version of the same engine.



billoberst said:


> Has anyone had a problem with Bachmann Steam Engines jamming up after running a while. I can take it off the track and turn it upside down then it usually starts running OK for a while. I sent one back to Bachmann service and they replaced he mechanism. This is the 3rd Bachmann engine I've had to do this. Bill


Bill, have you had any luck with your steamer? What you're describing isn't uncommon to them, and binds like this can happen in any brand. I'd first look interference in the running gear, such as the back of the crosshead catching on one of the connecting rod screws, valve gear linkage striking a main rod, or a connecting rod hanging up on a brake shoe. The best way to check is to turn the loco over in a foam cradle and power it up slowly and watching how the parts interact while deflecting the drivers from side-to-side.

It could be an internal issue, but I would think that would be less likely to be affected by the engine's position, unless a wire or other object is falling into the drive train.

The only other possibility I can think of is a split axle gear that locks up until the pressure is taken off the drivers, but I hope that isn't it.

My 2 cents.

Nelson


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## Cosmo706 (Mar 13, 2017)

I have a pair of Spectrum 4-8-2's and they're my go-to power for train shows.
I practically gutted them both electrically to add DCC but mechanically they are solid and fine runners.
I did acquire a parts-donor at one point, (IIRC a wheel was slipping on an axle,) but my biggest problem has been the electric pick-ups for the drivers- they're just a little TOO delicate! But with a pair of tweezers and some finesse it's a small task.


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

wvgca said:


> i have had exactly zero problems with bachmann steamers ....none at all, over ten locomotives, over eight years, zero ..
> methinks you are doing something wrong ??


Methinks you got lucky.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

Chops said:


> Methinks you got lucky.


well, i have bought quite a few geared steam in the bachmann spectrum line ... most with just DCC, some with DCC/Soiund ... with nary a problem ...maybe i got lucky?? maybe so , i buy very few 'ordinary' steamers, but those are usually in brass, and seem to run well, after installing a decoder, and -sometimes- painting them ..
i do have 'shelf queens' but they are higher axle count units that aren't really applicable for my era and 20 inch curves, the 0-4-0s and the like are usually relegated to shelf duty as well


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

I had a Daylight GS4 and a NW class J both excellent runners with no issues, got the GS4 in 1984, still have it, still runs great, the class J I got for Christmas around 85-86? anyhow it was a nice running engine, unfortunately I chose to sell it about 5 years ago, got good money for it but I sometimes wish I'd kept it


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

Old_Hobo said:


> The "old" Life-Like is gone.....sort of.....Life-Like was bought by Walthers, so in effect, it lives on, albeit it's much better (Walthers Proto) now.....


When our son turned 6 years old...25 years ago 🤣 🤣 my Mother- in- Law asked him what Santa could bring him for Christmas
and he shouted an Electric Train Set!! Well she was a huge QVC shopper and a Double Freight Life Like Set was up for grabs and she pulled the trigger...THAT SET started a Railroad Empire..I joined this forum and took to heart what a lot of folks said...Unload it and get better rolling Stock and Motive Power!! We had a Garage Sale and ended up buying some Blue Box Athearn Diesels...then Atlas and Rivarossi Steam....and Rolling Stock...Best Christmas present EVER!! So Old Lifelike served it's purpose and glad Walthers bought them out....when things calm down I'll take a trip to Milwaukee and get some photos of the Train Room,,,just AWESOME!! Oh..we still have his Bachmann 2-8-0 Consolidated from First Grade purchased from Long's Drugs in California...LONG GONE!!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

A lot of model train empires started with Like-like, Tyco, IHC, Con-Cor, Bachman, etc.....they certainly have their place in history in this hobby!


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

My railroad empire started out with a pile of Bachman and life like train sets. I still have a bunch of my original cars I started with as a kid. The 90s seemed like the end of most of the toy train sets. Newer Bachman sets are actually reasonable looking as far as detail goes. Personal preference would be for me to buy old bb athearn cars or accurail and a nicer locomotive but I guess it’s all about what you want to run. I’ve got some relatively expensive brass motive power that even fails on occasion so it doesn’t matter if you spend $5 or $500 on a locomotive eventually it will fail and you’ll have to either fix it or whatever you want to do with it.


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## NickelPlate759 (Jul 8, 2011)

Bachmann's original split frame, pancake-motored designs earned a very poor reputation, and deservedly so. The new standard and Spectrum lines are light years ahead of that old tooling, but it's been a long road getting there, and people are still gun shy (what happened with the Shay has also put people off modern Bachmann, I suppose). 

I bought a first generation Spectrum Santa Fe 4-8-4 in the early 90's, and had to send the first one back. The mounting post on the trailing truck just snapped off one day without any abuse. I still have the replacement loco though, and it still runs. The axles never split. But it still can't pull to save its own life... whatever that matte silver plating was that they used on the wheels back then was so slippery that no amount of added weight improves traction much. 

When I do rehab older Bachmann steam the first thing to go is that smoke unit. It's just an open cup that makes an awful mess inside the boiler and then dumps its contents when the loco is stored or serviced. I usually shape a lead weight to fill the cavity to balance the weight over the drivers.

As for the newer stuff, there have been problems with things like split gears, but that can be said about most brands, including BLI. I've heard horror stories about BLI steamers being reduced to $500 paperweights because the axle gear split. I've been calling for years for them to follow Rivarossi practice and cut the axle gears out of brass. When you're already charging that much, what's a few more pennies per unit?


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

NickelPlate759 said:


> Bachmann's original split frame, pancake-motored designs earned a very poor reputation, and deservedly so. The new standard and Spectrum lines are light years ahead of that old tooling, but it's been a long road getting there, and people are still gun shy (what happened with the Shay has also put people off modern Bachmann, I suppose).
> 
> I bought a first generation Spectrum Santa Fe 4-8-4 in the early 90's, and had to send the first one back. The mounting post on the trailing truck just snapped off one day without any abuse. I still have the replacement loco though, and it still runs. The axles never split. But it still can't pull to save its own life... whatever that matte silver plating was that they used on the wheels back then was so slippery that no amount of added weight improves traction much.
> 
> ...


To alleviate Wheel slip on our old 1987 Bachmann Russian 2-10-0 Decapod ($30 at swap meet)I applied a thin coat of Bullfrog Snot to the wheels and it worked for a while as it could pull 10 + Box cars or 100ton Hoppers...but then there went the plastic axle in pieces....tried frankensteining it but no luck...good looking paper weight indeed...now we've had our Rivarossi Steam Fleet and STILL running and pulling!!


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)




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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

Michael E,
Where do you prefer to purchase your trains ? Mainly European ?
Gary


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I order from Modellbahnshopp-Lippe. They have a huge inventory and they can get what they don't have in a matter of days instead of months. Their out-the-door shipping has slowed some with the virus everywhere, but shipping times are still three or four days to my door once UPS has it. I can still get product from Germany faster than anywhere in CONUS.

MSL or Union Modellbahn are the go-to shops for those in the US modelling European outline. I used to order some from a Canadian outfit in BC, but their hours are erratic, excuses for delays are the norm, and they will just close up shop on a whim while your order is sitting ready to ship. Their prices are also much higher than for the same equipment I can buy in Germany even with the crappy exchange rate at present.

MSL carries every major and minor European brand there is. They also carry a few American brands for those that model US outline on the Continent.

My most recent order just landed in Philidelphia at 0602 this morning. From there it will be on a connecting flight to Chicago and then on to Nashville. It will be on my front porch tomorrow by noon.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Hahaha and it takes over a week to get a pack of couplers from Michigan to central Illinois. Must be nice to depend on a shipper


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Bought this one a couple of years ago. Cheap, no tender, doesn't need it to run, self contained.

Bought it because it was nicely detailed and cheap! Doesn't run. didn't run. Started to take it apart, gave up when the valve gear started to separate. The bottom plate is held on by four screws, and cylinders float unless restrained. Usually these just separate frame from boiler. Anyone taken one apart?


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Got it. Go top down rather that bottom up. Two small screws hold the shell on, remove them and all is revealed. Brushes look ok, clean the commutator and she should be a runner.


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## NickelPlate759 (Jul 8, 2011)

rsv1ho said:


> Got it. Go top down rather that bottom up. Two small screws hold the shell on, remove them and all is revealed. Brushes look ok, clean the commutator and she should be a runner.
> 
> View attachment 552602
> View attachment 552603


Nice find, Rsv. That's an early version with the pancake motor embedded in one half of the frame, which was quieter than the white plastic motor they made later. Should be a good runner as long as the drivers stay quartered (I always run a bead of CA around the plastic axle where it meets each metal stub axle to be sure they never slip, then scrape off any that ran onto the metal axles to ensure electrical pickup).

It also has the original blow molded smoke unit. Just be careful with it, as I think it's possible for it to melt the stack.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Thanks, It's great to hear from someone with a little knowledge about these.

I did get it to run after cleaning the commutator by applying voltage across the brushes, or a brush and the opposite polarity driver. _ But, curious, it will run only if the brass screw connecting the two haves is left out, put it back in and nothing_. A short maybe. Put it on the track and nothing, seems the track pick-up is missing. 

But, I was having so much fun running it laying on it's side that I didn't turn the no-load speed down and I heard the inevitable click of gears and watched as the side rods and valve gears meshed in an improper way. The motors drive gears had slipped a tooth or three. Darn, darn, darn just as things were going well. That quartering thing. Thinking all was lost, i removed the bottom plate raised the geared driver and replaced in a position that I thought would work - and it did. Back up and operating (at a lower speed) without the brass screw but still no track pick up.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

Try a plastic screw?


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Murv2 said:


> Try a plastic screw?


Even more curious, the screw doesn't appear to do anything. The two halves are already held securely in place by the frame. If it does anything it increases the pressure on the motors drive gears holding them in alignment hence the position on that side over the gears.


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## NickelPlate759 (Jul 8, 2011)

rsv1ho said:


> Even more curious, the screw doesn't appear to do anything. The two halves are already held securely in place by the frame. If it does anything it increases the pressure on the motors drive gears holding them in alignment hence the position on that side over the gears.


Those brass machine screws carry the current from the frame halves to the brush retainers on the motor. IIRC the long screw goes in the back and makes the connection to the opposite half of the frame. If it's shorting, there may be a missing insulator.

Edit: Just occurred to me that if the front screw hole is a through hole and you put the long screw in it, It could short to the opposite side of the frame.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

NickelPlate759 said:


> Those brass machine screws carry the current from the frame halves to the brush retainers on the motor. IIRC the long screw goes in the back and makes the connection to the opposite half of the frame. If it's shorting, there may be a missing insulator.
> 
> Edit: Just occurred to me that if the front screw hole is a through hole and you put the long screw in it, It could short to the opposite side of the frame.



Thanks, Gave me inspiration to take it apart again. 

The front side of locomotives brush retainer has a long screw, the other short. Other than that the only other screw is the screw pictured.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Apologies to bill for stepping all over his thread, but it's a convenient way to express this problem and may help others.

Battered what's left of my brain trying to solve this problem. Even took the headlamp out of the circuit. Still, runs with that brass screw out of the frame, won't with it in but will not pick up from the track. Found this schematic. Shows a contact to the front pilot truck which makes no sense as the wheels are insulated with no continuity and the restraining screw screws into plastic.


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## NickelPlate759 (Jul 8, 2011)

rsv1ho said:


> Apologies to bill for stepping all over his thread, but it's a convenient way to express this problem and may help others.
> 
> Battered what's left of my brain trying to solve this problem. Even took the headlamp out of the circuit. Still, runs with that brass screw out of the frame, won't with it in but will not pick up from the track. Found this schematic. Shows a contact to the front pilot truck which makes no sense as the wheels are insulated with no continuity and the restraining screw screws into plastic.
> 
> ...


That diagram is the version with the white plastic motor, so that's several generations newer and not of any help.

I couldn't remember which end of the brush plate the long & short screws went in, but the longer one has to be the current collector for the other frame half, which looks to be the rear screw hole. 🤔 I don't recall that screw on the LH side of the frame, but it's been a while since I had it open. I'll have to take a look later today and see what I find.

Mine also has little black Phillips screws that hold the drivers to the plastic axles, so it must be an even earlier version than yours, perhaps the first. Too bad they didn't keep them like that, as I don't think they can slip out of quarter.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

NickelPlate759 said:


> That diagram is the version with the white plastic motor, so that's several generations newer and not of any help.
> 
> I couldn't remember which end of the brush plate the long & short screws went in, but the longer one has to be the current collector for the other frame half, which looks to be the rear screw hole. 🤔 I don't recall that screw on the LH side of the frame, but it's been a while since I had it open. I'll have to take a look later today and see what I find.
> 
> Mine also has little black Phillips screws that hold the drivers to the plastic axles, so it must be an even earlier version than yours, perhaps the first. Too bad they didn't keep them like that, as I don't think they can slip out of quarter.


Thanks, If "quartering" means synchronizing the side rods and valve gears with the drive motor that's a problem too. I mentioned before while running it fast a tooth or three slipped on the motors spur gear throwing things out of whack. Fixed that by lifting the geared driver and repositioning it. Then it happened again, so i have to redo that.

But............

I fixed the pickup from the track problem. I reconnected the headlamp and put it back on the track and noticed that the headlamp worked but the locomotive still did not move with the brass screw out, so with it still on the track I put the screw back in and it moved but only if the screw was loose not tightened. Tighten it and nothing. 

When I replaced the brushes I was careful to replace each screw in it's proper hole because they are of different lengths.. It is possible that some PO previously mixed them up. Seems the both screw into that insulated spacer (top of schematic to the right of the pancake) and may be touching in the middle shorting out. Still have to investigate that.

Now all I have to do is re-synchronize (quarter?) the drive gears and I'm home free.


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## NickelPlate759 (Jul 8, 2011)

Quartering on a steam locomotive refers to the crankpins on the driver sets on each side having a 90 degree offset from one another. On models the quartering may not be an exact 90 degrees, but what is crucial is that all of the driver sets have the same alignment and line up exactly with the holes in the connecting rods. If one wheel slips on its axle, it's out of quarter and the connecting rods will bind up, hence the problem with the plastic insulating axles on these. They are just white plastic tubes that tend to split over the years. You'll often see Bachmann steamers on eBay with the side rods at crazy angles, or even drivers hanging on only by their connecting rods.

It sounds like you have some loose drivers that are slipping out of quarter, which is jamming the whole mechanism and causing the gears to skip. Be careful running it in this condition, as it could strip the gears. Can you twist any of the drivers out of alignment?

As for the electrical issue, I took my early run version apart and this is what I found.










Both of the brass motor screws are short. 🙄 Once again it may be a revision change. The rear screws on both sides thread into that brass insert inside a plastic insulator, and both screws need to be tight in order to ensure an electrical connection to the rear brush. I'm glad I took it apart, actually, because the screw on the other side of the frame was loose and I never noticed it. That could have made for a spotty connection.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Thanks NP, that's the best explanation of quartering I have had yet. I will check it out.

My "long" screw is a good deal longer than the one you show, check #43 above third picture. They can't be swapped, I tried. I removed the front end completely eliminating the valve gear as the source of the problem. I'm going to have fun putting it back together. Didn't make any difference, still binds. Will check out quartering tomorrow.

Bob


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