# Lionel 671 (1946 Version)



## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

My next task is to completely rebuild this other Loco I have.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157628492961237/

I can tell that the engine is shot. Some how the plastic frame for the coil has been melted. I was going to strip and sell/trade off the parts but I saw a like new engine for this model on ebay so I pulled the trigger and decided I can rebuild this Loco. My question for you guys is where can I get the conversion kit for the smoke unit I have read about? Let me know if you guys see anything else that sticks out at you in the pictures. Thanks!

I am also unable to find the part number for the screws that hold the frame to the body, seems like there are three of them. Must be a standard Lionel screw? 
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/671-46.htm


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The screws should be standard machine screws. As far as I know, all of the screws that Lionel used except for the 4-36 are standard screws today. 

The field coil on the motor is cooked probably because some bozo tried to make the engine run when something was jammed. The current through the field and armature can become very high and cook the motor if the motor is not running. Fortunately for you, you now have a good loco to rebuild. 

If you try to take the armature out of the motor, be careful not to lose the tiny ball bearings for the thrust bearings. I don't know if this loco has ball bearing thrust bearings, but some of the worm drive locos do.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

Smoke unit conversion kit is 671S as per:http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos\loc671p1.pdf in the second column near bottom of print above the wiring diagram. 

B


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

So I went in last night to get a list of parts I need, man this thing was dirty! Kinds of dirt I have never seen before. All kinds of gross. But its clean now. I didn't notice any small ball bearings. Just the normal shaft bearings at each end, did I mention the dirt in this thing? The drive shaft is going to need some dremel work to get the rest of this rust?/dried mud? off to be perfect but other than that this train is clean. 

Servoguy, you were so right. I pull the e-unit off and found that the little drum is in fact damaged, one of the teeth has been gashed. I cant figure out how this would have happened. Maybe as a child my dad was jamming crap inside of the train. He did tell me he was too young for it when it was all bought for him. Going to have to ask him next week . He would more than likely be the "bozo" that melted the engine :laugh:. Here are the pictures of the e-unit. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6544971393/in/set-72157628501159163/lightbox/

The Pawl gets jammed right in that gash. Had to be what caused the engine to melt. Now this sucks , I was really trying not to drop any more large purchases on this train but it looks like a replacement e-unit is going to be 50 bucks. I did find this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-Postwar-E-Unit-Service-Repair-Parts-Tool-/170748526516?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item27c167bfb4 on ebay though and was wondering if any of you have any experience using these new parts in an old frame? Is it difficult to replace them? I did find this thread which has been helpful.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3040


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

inxy said:


> Smoke unit conversion kit is 671S as per:http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos\loc671p1.pdf in the second column near bottom of print above the wiring diagram.
> 
> B


:thumbsup: thanks for this man!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have repaired drums without completely disassembling the E unit. Standard procedure is to split the two halves and pop the rivet out of one of the side plates. This will allow you to replace the drum and both sets of contacts. When I repaired the drum on my 2045, I bent the side plates enough to get the drum out without taking out the contact set that has four contacts. When I repaired the drum, I just bent the side plates back with the drum and the lower contact set in position. The contacts may or may not be OK. The drum obviously needs to be replaced, but I wouldn't spend $50 on a new E unit. The going price for them should be closer to $15. There are some bozos on eBay that are asking ridiculous prices for stuff.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

If the smoke unit works, I would highly recommend against replacing it. You can use fluid in the old pellet units (or was this one of the smoke bulb units? If that's the case then I'd think about the conversion) and it works just as well if not better. A modern resistor for the fluid is more of a risk for burning itself up.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

santafe158 said:


> If the smoke unit works, I would highly recommend against replacing it. You can use fluid in the old pellet units (or was this one of the smoke bulb units? If that's the case then I'd think about the conversion) and it works just as well if not better. A modern resistor for the fluid is more of a risk for burning itself up.


The smoke unit is completely missing. All I have is what you see in the pictures. Just the "puffer" plate is all that remains in the front of the train. I dont know where to begin as for as rebuilding the smoke unit.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

servoguy said:


> I have repaired drums without completely disassembling the E unit. Standard procedure is to split the two halves and pop the rivet out of one of the side plates. This will allow you to replace the drum and both sets of contacts. When I repaired the drum on my 2045, I bent the side plates enough to get the drum out without taking out the contact set that has four contacts. When I repaired the drum, I just bent the side plates back with the drum and the lower contact set in position. The contacts may or may not be OK. The drum obviously needs to be replaced, but I wouldn't spend $50 on a new E unit. The going price for them should be closer to $15. There are some bozos on eBay that are asking ridiculous prices for stuff.


Besides ebay, this is the only place I can find that has a 671-50 is smittys.

http://www.smittystoytrainparts.com/01a-lionelpostwar.html - $50

Then I just found a 726-51 which according to the lionel docs is the same unit? 

http://www.sandwparts.com/Parts List/6-XXXX-XXXp1.htm - $33

These are the only two places that have this e-unit besides e-bay. Must be a rare unit. If price wasn't an issue would you still just replace the rollers or get a whole new unit?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The E unit is unique because it is lying down. Since gravity will not return the plunger, there is a spring inside the E unit. Everything else should be the same as any other E unit except maybe for the lever that turns it on and off.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

NorCalTransplant said:


> Besides ebay, this is the only place I can find that has a 671-50 is smittys.
> 
> http://www.smittystoytrainparts.com/01a-lionelpostwar.html - $50
> 
> ...



My book says the 671 & 2020 locos are the same. But it also says there are differences in the year of 1946.

Yours has a horizontal e unit #671-90? The book says.
You say it is 671-50?

The price for a new e unit back then was $2.00.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm pretty confident this is the 1946 version because of the little plug on the back of the engine which "engages" the e-unit I believe? Just a guess there. 

Second page here
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/671-46.htm

Lists 671-50 and 726-51 "Horizontally-mounted relays. Used in 1946 models of 671, 671R and 726 locomotives. No lever. Panel in front, Special plunger and return spring."

Guess its rare , got a time machine I can borrow? I'll bring us back a whole bunch of them!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Traintender has one for $32

671-90 e-unit for turbine LIMITED 32.00
A lot of us get parts from him.
A great seller, quick shipping, excellent packaging.

You can call him to if you like.

http://www.ttender.com/partslist.html


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

But I would guess that has a lever, give him a call and ask.
Maybe he has the one without the lever.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

I saw that but I thought I needed a 671-50 or 726-51. Does LIMITED mean stock is limited or something else?


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

big ed said:


> But I would guess that has a lever, give him a call and ask.
> Maybe he has the one without the lever.


:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

NorCalTransplant said:


> :thumbsup:


Call him up, it is only a dime.

Whoops can't say that anymore.

It is only a few minutes now a day.:laugh:

I have unlimited minutes on my phone.

Don't know about Limited. Edit, the train that is 671 Limited.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

Must be closed? Got his message after it rang a bunch. Hes got a bunch of stuff I need anyways. I'm going to email him. Thanks. Any advice on the smoke unit?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

NorCalTransplant said:


> Must be closed? Got his message after it rang a bunch. Hes got a bunch of stuff I need anyways. I'm going to email him. Thanks. Any advice on the smoke unit?



I have seen them on e bay. I never really did any work on smoke units but cleaned them up and solder a wire or two. All mine worked. Even ones out of the junk pile.
I think I bought one of the conversion kits a few years ago.I will have to look in my parts.
It seemed like a good thing to have in the parts box if I did get one.

I will have to look, the dinner bell is ringing now and I don't want to be late.


Jeffs a good seller, you can't go wrong buying from him and his prices are better or the same as others.
All his stuff will come vac packed in separate bags with labels too, so if you get a lot, there is no guessing as to what is what.

Good luck, later.


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

I have a 671 steamer same as yours.. This is the original smoke unit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-671-...734214?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf0d0dc46 On the e-unit just replace the drum a standard item.

B


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

inxy said:


> I have a 671 steamer same as yours.. This is the original smoke unit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-671-...734214?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf0d0dc46 On the e-unit just replace the drum a standard item.
> 
> B


$75 for smoke?  I thought the original units were obsolete? They make these pellets anymore?

*EDIT looks like ttender.com has em for 20. Without the bulb. And I just found pellets...


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

Yes they make the pellets, they cost a bit more, but you can use fluid in the old style units too (I like em better than the new fluid units).


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

santafe158 said:


> Yes they make the pellets, they cost a bit more, but you can use fluid in the old style units too (I like em better than the new fluid units).



I rather use pellets I don't recommend fluid for the pellet smokers.
I got some old bottles of pellets. They work even if all that is left is powder, just put a little bit in and it smokes fine.
I find mine mixed in with junk lots or occasionally you can find a good deal on old pellets on e bay.
But to some sellers they must think they are gold! They want way too much!
You can get new ones like Santafe said.

Trainz who I think is high sells these new pellets $15 bucks plus shipping! For 50....I think I have seen them cheaper somewhere.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, if the E-Unit gets too expensive to fix, you can replace it with a Dallee electronic E-Unit, that's another option.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

big ed said:


> I don't recommend fluid for the pellet smokers.



You probably have a reason, but I have to ask why? I've been doing it for the last few years I've owned postwar engines and it works WAY better than the pellets do for me (I have both). Pellets melt down and basically turn into the same stuff smoke fluid is (sort of, not really) and they do the same thing. Fluid doesn't clog the units up either and is a whole lot cheaper. A $4 2 ounce bottle of JT's mega-steam fluid has lasted me since 2009 and I still have plenty left.

Pellets are nice at Christmas time for nostalgia reasons, other than that, they're nothing special.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The other plus of the smoke fluid is it doesn't leave those messy calcium deposits all over the place.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> FWIW, if the E-Unit gets too expensive to fix, you can replace it with a Dallee electronic E-Unit, that's another option.


Can you explain or point me in the right direction? Thanks


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## inxy (Dec 10, 2010)

The smoke box 671-61 and box cover 671-63 are $35 and $32 respectively at: http://www.drtinkertrains.com/catalog/Parts List March 2011.pdf The box cover can be found cheaper at other places Lionel 196 smoke pellets are no longer made. You supposedly can use whatever pellets that are out there. Whether you use the original smoke setup or the conversion is up to you depending on cost and if you want to keep the steamer original. Olsens has the original e-unit 671-50 for $45 and that price is six month ago.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

Back from the dead!






Rest of the parts with an updated smoker have been ordered. So excited about this!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

santafe158 said:


> You probably have a reason, but I have to ask why? I've been doing it for the last few years I've owned postwar engines and it works WAY better than the pellets do for me (I have both). Pellets melt down and basically turn into the same stuff smoke fluid is (sort of, not really) and they do the same thing. Fluid doesn't clog the units up either and is a whole lot cheaper. A $4 2 ounce bottle of JT's mega-steam fluid has lasted me since 2009 and I still have plenty left.
> 
> Pellets are nice at Christmas time for nostalgia reasons, other than that, they're nothing special.


I just don't recommend the fluid in a pellet burner.
I don't have a reason though I think a long time ago I read it was not good for the pellet burners.
I tried it and I think the pellets smoked better too.



NorCalTransplant said:


> Can you explain or point me in the right direction? Thanks


Do you have the wheels for under the cab?
You know it comes with them, it looks funny running in the video without the wheels.


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## NorCalTransplant (Dec 6, 2011)

Huh? Ive already said this is a restoration project, no I don't have the back trucks, they are on order.


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