# Rare PARKER Locomotive



## Dellboycd (Nov 12, 2015)

Hi All,
I have acquired an old locomotive that has the name PARKER etched into it. I can not find out anything about it, I have attached pics anyone know anything about it ?.
Any help is much appreciated.
TY


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks to be pre war o gauge, right after the wind up era of trains. It as a center pick up roller. Maybe wait for t man, or tj to see this. Or post it in the o scale , someone will know. Teledoc is also a wiz in finding out info on trains. If nothing else I bumped the thread good luck


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

By the size it almost looks like prewar S scale?
I searched last night, I did not find much on the name Parker and prewar trains.

It almost looks like an old American Flyer clockwork locomotive.
The one picture of the right side why is there a hole with the little gear there? Maybe to oil it?
Only one roller too?

Do you have the tender (the coal/wood car) that would be hooked onto the back of it?


----------



## Dellboycd (Nov 12, 2015)

*New info*

Thanks for responding I do not have the tender. I did find 2 Numbers stamped in the back they are W04718 L, W04718 R


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Possible identity??*

Dellboycd, I did some digging, and am inclined to agree in part with Big Ed, about American Flyer. I think what you have is from around 1915-1925 time period, and almost definite American Flyer. It appears in the range of AF 319? series steam locos, and possibly a 3197 or 3198 with 0-4-0 wheel arrangement. I can't pin it down definite, but it sure looks like that era, which is when Hafner was being absorbed by American Flyer. It almost looks like a "hybrid" of both manufacturers. One noticeable item, is the hole in the side, where the gears are. It would seem to me that someone actually converted an old "Clockwork/wind up" body, with an electric motor. The hole would have been where the wind up key would have been inserted, to wind the mechanism. Another thing that points me toward American Flyer is the "visor" over the headlight, which seems to only be found on AF early locos, and not found on other manufactured brands from that time period. The side rods (linkage) is found on other AF locos, but the wheels are confusing, as they are solid, & not spoked like others from this era.

When you mention the "Parker" and W04718L W04718R etched, does it appear that someone used an engraving tool to put them there. A lot of cast metal toys, specifically trains, usually had numbers or other identifiers "Stamped" into the metal. If it looks like it was done with some kind of engraving tool, then I would go out on limb and say that the "Parker" was the name of who owned it. Anyone's guess if it is right!! Early Prewar trains are very hard to identify, as a lot of reference material isn't available. Thank God the internet came along!! Hope this helps.

Welcome to the insanity of Model Railroading........

Teledoc (Jerry)


----------



## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

It's definitely 3 rail O Gauge, but I don't know how much voltage it takes. Most likely you can run it on any O Gauge transformer. It looks similar to a Marx motor. I can run all my Marx trains on a Lionel KW transformer at full power (18-20 volts) but be careful because that can make them go too fast and fly off the track or make the motor heat up.


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Dellboycd, Are the numbers and name engraved into finish, or do they appear as stamped??


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

From the CTT forum

Definitely appears to be the locomotive in question, and would make sense being that it was a great depression era locomotive that was made out of parts available.

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/116423.aspx?page=6

"The Great Depression was on and so was the demand for less expensive trains. American Flyer offered the 1084 to their dealers in the Set Composition List for 1931 but never illustrated the engine or its sets in the catalog. The Composition List indicates two sets were offered: Set #932 - a two car passenger and Set #933 - a two car freight. The two car freight consisted of one of the small 4 wheel litho gondolas pictured over on page 4 of this thread (American Flyer 5 ½ inch lithoed gondolas) and a small IC caboose similar to the one pictured on the same page (A brief comparison of freight car litho treatment). In keeping with Flyers choice of names for its low priced sets these were called "Express Electric Trains" - a close verbal relative to the clockwork Express trains discussed over on page 7 (American Flyer Clockwork Sets).










The engine was painted a glossy, deep black finish, with highlights in either all red or red and yellow. The highlighting was applied to the piping, cast railing, windows and cowcatcher. The "two tone" version had red window trim and pale yellow highlights on the boiler piping and hand rails. There is also a version that has a single band of red paint across the center part of the cab.

The engine itself has all of the features of a real steam engine of the period - Elesco Feedwater Heater, tapered boiler, and a center mounted headlight with visor. The "problem", if you want to call it that, is the size. The engine has been called a cast iron cartoon and it certainly looks like one. I have one of these engines and every time I run it the first comment from almost any observer, regardless of gender, is "it's cute."

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Flyer attitude in 1931 seemed to be "build to suit" as far as set consists were concerned and it appears the two sets for the 1084 were not exempt. In addition to boxed 932 and 933 sets I've also seen a boxed 932T set with 1084 and 3 passenger cars. What I find interesting is that the cars, unlike most of the toy passenger trains of the period, are not a matched consist.



Set 932 - engine with all red highlights










Set 932T - engine with red and yellow highlights


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...538911?hash=item5b1c94d15f:g:RXwAAOSw6dNWSSl1


There's a tender listed on eBay if you're interested


----------



## Dellboycd (Nov 12, 2015)

*Updated pics*















































































Thank you for all the information, I have included better pictures of the stamped names


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That was a tough one. My reference didn't have it. A booklet of Classic O gage trains.


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Dellboycd, Great looking engine, and I stick by my guns that it has to be early American Flyer. I have looked at numerous photos over the past 24 hours, and everything points in that direction of the maker. I may even think it's a transition piece from Hafner to American Flyer, as the early 1900's they were together, then split around 1930. I just can't pin down an exact number for that loco, to say "Yes, it is a 3195, or a 3197, etc." I have no available books on American Flyer. I just can't figure out why "PARKER" is stamped into the casting. The numbers and name are stamped, not etched, and part of the original casting. Like you, I couldn't find anything in reference to that name, associated with any model train.

You may want to edit your post, and insert the photos as viewable, by clicking on the "paperclip icon" to the right of the smiley face up top, and it will insert the photos directly into your last post. GREAT LOOKING ENGINE:smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:

T-Man, you should know I am the resident researcher......ROFLMAO!!!!!


----------



## Dellboycd (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks Teledoc, not to be a pest but did you notice the second last pic, the screw attaching the motor protrudes through the cast, is this normal?.


----------



## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

I just noticed on one of my Marx Steam engines: It has a keyhole as well but it uses an electric motor. I don't see a gear behind it but it's probably because that motor's different so the gear happens to be behind the key hole- Or yours was designed so the gear would be where the key wind is should it be an electric motor version. My guess is they did this for costs- Rather than make new machines and have shells that can only be used on the electric version, they decided to use the shell from the key version.


----------



## Dellboycd (Nov 12, 2015)

*Additional info*

Here are some pics of the box it came in and American flyer lubrication instructions plus some wire, if it means anything.
Thank






































you.


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Dell, The instructions as you can see are definitely American Flyer (exclusively, as it shows Chicago on the bottom of tag), which dates it before 1938. Get to that later. The instructions are for an AF 3185 Electric Loco (the type that would have had a pantograph on top, to connect to overhead power). The one thing puzzling is the number 1087 stamped on the box. Can't find anything related to that number??? The wire is typical prewar cloth covered wire, looks to be 19 ga., or little heavier, as I remember that type of wire from my earliest introduction to trains. The box may have been from something else, and not even related to your train, but was the right size to fit it into. Can only speculate on that.

The screw attachment appears to be the only way to mount the motor, and I would guess it to be correct. I am kind of leaning toward the actual loco body as being a previous "clockwork/wind up" that was later converted to an electric motor loco, and that was the only way to attach the motor. The side plate (brush plate-with screws) is typical of early AF locos and looks the same as other Prewar AF Steam Locos. The hole in the side, where you can see the one gear, was probably where the key for the wind up mechanism would have been inserted, is why I think the body was earlier a wind up.

A little history about American Flyer was a company started by William Coleman, a friend of William HAFNER, who started his business in 1906/07 in Chicago. It was formerly Edmonds-Metzel Hardware Co., and his first trains were actually Edmonds_Metzel trains. In 1908 the name was changed to American Flyer, and that ran up to the 1930's. During the early part, Coleman & Hafner were partners, as competitors to Ives Trains, but around 1913 Hafner left the company, and started his own brand "Hafner Trains"

In 1918, AF introduced an electric train, which was a wind up train with an electric motor in place of the clockwork motor. The same year, William Coleman died, and his son took over the business, and continued until 1938. Competition by other companies took its toll, and he wound up selling his company to A.C. Gilbert. The company was moved to New Haven, Ct., and all operations ceased in Chicago, and the plant was closed down. ****So much for the history lesson****

No, you are not being a pest, and I enjoy the challenge to figure out a lot of this stuff, as I am learning a lot myself, along the way. I just wish I could nail down EXACTLY what you have, as far as a true number to associate with it. Interesting part to all of this is that I am primarily Lionel, more Postwar and just recently getting involved in Prewar. The one source that MAY have the answer to exactly what you have, if in fact it is American Flyer, would be Greenberg's Guide to Prewar American Flyer "O" gauge. That is one book that I don't have, and the cheapest I have seen that offered is $125. I think I will pass on that one.....LOL

Jerry


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I posted a question over on CTT forum, with a photo of the mystery loco, and added remarks about the stamping found in the cab, and I did get a response from one of their members. I know that there a few forum users over there, that are heavily into American Flyer, and found out that there was a branded version made by American Flyer, and sold specifically to J.C. Penney in the early 1920's. The Penney branded trains were named "Nation Wide Lines", and only sold by J.C. Penney. I also read an article on the TCA website, about the NWL trains, and there are NO available records covering this line of trains. The Prewar stuff is almost impossible to find data on!!! In the TCA article it talked about known specific sets that they could document. One listing did mention a Steam Engine with a number of 1084 assigned to the engine.

There is a distinct possibility that the BOX with the number 1087, could be an actual number of a Steam Loco, from Nation Wide Lines, and sold by J.C. Penney. If that is the case, I would hazard a guess that you have a pretty rare loco.


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Dellboycd, I got an answer as to the identity of your engine from a member over on Classic Toy Trains, user NWL who apparently collects Nation Wide Lines, made by American Flyer. He happened to have Greenberg's Guide to Prewar American Flyer "0" gauge (out of print, and lowest price used at $159). He found your loco on page 92 on the upper left of the page, and it is listed without a number (1087?), and is an "Uncatalogued" loco. Because it was Nation Wide Lines, made strictly for J.C. Penney, it would have been just that, an uncatalogued loco, and there are no records for the early years of J.C. Penney, and they only started to produce catalogs in the 1960's.

I think you got yourself a real keeper, and I would consider it pretty rare. Another assumption by NWL about the "PARKER" stamping would be the possible company that did the actual casting of the body, and that would have been their marking. Amazing what you can learn, with a little searching.:smilie_daumenpos:

Teledoc


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Another mystery solved, by Sherlock doc! Good work


----------



## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I'm not going to get into AF books, but I did add another new one to the Arsenal, and just waiting for it to come in the mail. Greenbergs Guide to Prewar 0 & 00, Vol. II. Saw a lot starting at around $79 and up, but snagged one for $30 plus postage. Problem being coming from B.C. Canada, so postage was 15. Been wanting that book for a while, since TJ got me hooked on Prewar. D...n him!!!!

It's amazing what you can learn, while chasing this info down, and it just adds to the intricate differences of the Prewar. I get a kick out of doing this.


----------



## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

"Parker" could have been from Parker Brothers who made a lot of toys back in the old days. As for American Flyer didn't know that they ever ran on three rail track. The one I had was two rail but that was in 1946 or so. Interesting problem. Pete


----------

