# Cleaning(burnishing) Old Track.....



## Stillakid

A guy on eBay is offering a service(4pcs of track for $1.00), and has a video showing how he does it. Thought it was pretty neat and someting we could all do with either a drill press or a table grinder.

His Ad http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...232159?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a14b80adf


His video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGGve4fosrc

Your thoughts?


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## gunrunnerjohn

One little detail. He didn't show you the track before he started, maybe it already looked like that!


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## tjcruiser

Interesting. It seems to me, though, that he (or the interested party) would be better off simply buying whatever burnishing disc that is, and running it on one's one grinder. Do you think that's some commonly available abrasive wheel ... like a Scotchbrite pad or something?

I wonder how much care is needed to not abrade off the paint on the crossties?

Thanks for posting, Jim,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

It was posted over in the Trains forums, it's a $70 Tyco wheel. I also wondered about the crossties, because I take some paint off them when I wire brush track.


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## Stillakid

Actually John, he does show the pieces in his ad. He's a member of a S-Gauge Club and they do this as a way to raise funds for their club. I'd say that there's a difference between a wire wheel and the pad that he's using, and that if you were to read/look at the ad, you might see that it would be a better way considering what he explains as the added benefits. 

TJ, that was my my thought. I'm going to try and order a couple of those pads and see how it turns out. I'm not happy with the results using a wire wheel.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I like the idea of the pad, but the $70 that was quoted in another forum kinda' sets me back!


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## tjcruiser

Keep us posted, Jim. In concept, I think the somewhat flexible / contouring pad might do a better job on the tubular track than a wire brush. I wonder about the lifespan of the pad, though. My little Dremel pads tend to wear down very quickly ... much more so than a Dremel stainless brush.

Let us know what you find out. 

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

If you could find those pads at a reasonable price, it might be an alternative.


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## Big Ed

I wonder how many send him rail?

It would cost Around $50 bucks for a hundred with shipping.


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## gunrunnerjohn

While I don't doubt that's what he rightfully should charge, I have a problem sending out a couple hundred track pieces when I could have the wheel for the price. It's also pretty expensive to ship a lot of track, it's heavy!


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> While I don't doubt that's what he rightfully should charge, I have a problem sending out a couple hundred track pieces when I could have the wheel for the price. It's also pretty expensive to ship a lot of track, it's heavy!


Your right on that.


It looks like a soft buffing wheel.
You would need a slow speed drill to run it.
Maybe it is a buffing wheel with some kind of polish soaked/penetrated into it.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think it's a pretty solid material, but it must last for a long time for them to get $75-$100 for them!


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## Stillakid

I think that when you take into consideration that not everyone has a shop, or even perhaps the skills to do this, it's not a bad deal. I have over 250 pcs of track that needs cleaning. Since I don't want any of the new style track, or Gargraves, for me, it makes sense.

Did any of you read or watch his video? That pad doesn't look like it some light weight material. If I can get one for $70-80, IMHO, it would be more than adequate to meet all my needs


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## Reckers

Jim, as you may recall, I used to work in silver---sterling silver, as opposed to nickel silver. Nickel silver is a misnomer, as it contains no silver at all: "The usual formulation is 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc." It's also called German Silver. So, if you break it down to a simple metal polishing system, you need a polisher that will handle those three metals and polish, rather than strip them: a soft-metal buffing compound.

Since I was polishing a lot of metal, I went to Walmart and bought a two-wheel grinder. A large screwdriver and a wrench allowed me to remove the wheels in about 5 minutes; the same nuts and washers allowed me to mount buffing wheels in their place. If you mount one of these puppies on one wheel (http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=213585706&sellerid=23032500) and this one on the other (http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch...-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA), all you'd then need is a polishing compound. I'd recommend this one: http://www.amazon.com/POLISHING-COMPOUND-ZAM-CROCUS-TUBE/dp/tech-data/B000HYKBU8

Zam is a professional polish for silver and soft stones like turquoise. A slightly coarser polish is jewelers rouge for the tough customers: http://www.amazon.com/oz-Jewelers-Rouge-Polishing-Compound/dp/B0009SOB9O

The important thing is to not mix your buffing compounds on the same wheel. If you really get into it, you'll want a tapered arbor for each metal shaft of your grinder: https://www.swmetal.com/cart/search?category=Arbors and Extensions

The arbors need to be left-hand/right hand for opposite sides of the wheel, so as to spin tighter instead of unwinding as the motor spins the shaft. The tapered arbors allow you to grab the buffing wheel and sort of unscrew it from the arbor by hand, negating the need for tools to swap wheels---you might want to use a clean, soft wheel to get all your polishing compount off the rails. At some point, you may decide to run these all through the washer and dryer to renew your wheels. This can be done, and leaves gunk all over the washer tub for you to take out with Googone or similar cleaner! 

Best wishes, 
Len


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## AZ-Flyer

Well I guess I have to register and give my side as long as I started this information on the Tycro wheel. I used this process for over 20 years in the orthopedic field. It works great on $40,000 artificial legs and $10,000 orthopedic braces, so I guess it would work on a section $4.99 train track. But you can use what ever you want to use. We did this twenty years ago. I'm just trying to give what works for us in the best way. You can E-mail me with any questions. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. My mail box is getting full!

http://sgaugers.blogspot.com/p/burnishing-american-flyer-train-track.html


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## gunrunnerjohn

Here's a place that has all the buffing wheels and compound you'd ever need, and their prices seem a lot better than some of the other references.

PJ Tool & Supply- Hard to Find Tools. Harder to Beat Prices.


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## gunrunnerjohn

AZ-Flyer said:


> Well I guess I have to register and give my side as long as I started this information on the Tycro wheel. I used this process for over 20 years in the orthopedic field. It works great on $40,000 artificial legs and $10,000 orthopedic braces, so I guess it would work on a section $4.99 train track. But you can use what ever you want to use. We did this twenty years ago. I'm just trying to give what works for us in the best way. You can E-mail me with any questions. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. My mail box is getting full!
> 
> http://sgaugers.blogspot.com/p/burnishing-american-flyer-train-track.html


The problem here is the entry price of over $130 for the wheel! It's pretty easy to justify that for $40,000 items, not so much for a pile of cheap train track.


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## Reckers

CHEAP TRACK???? Sir, I beg to differ! By the time you take that 6' oval and add 50 additional pieces of rolling stock, 5 steamers and 4 diesels, 24 buildings and a series of upgrades in transformers, wiring, lighting, sound, take over the living room for the expanded layout, pay off the now ex-wife for the divorce, remarry with a woman you only recognize by her pin-striped coveralls and install the beer refrigerator, you're up to about $1000/linear foot! Polish those puppies!!! Treat them like royalty!

And AZ-Flyer, welcome to the forum. Please don't feel attacked or the need to defend the service you're offering; we're just DIY addicts and are always looking for cheaper alternatives. It's nice to have you join us!


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## tjcruiser

AZ-Flyer,

Thanks for chiming in. You're most welcome here on our forum. Respectful debate and exchange of information is a good thing ... we all can learn from the dialog.

Cheers,

TJ


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## AZ-Flyer

Reckers said:


> CHEAP TRACK???? Sir, I beg to differ! By the time you take that 6' oval and add 50 additional pieces of rolling stock, 5 steamers and 4 diesels, 24 buildings and a series of upgrades in transformers, wiring, lighting, sound, take over the living room for the expanded layout, pay off the now ex-wife for the divorce, remarry with a woman you only recognize by her pin-striped coveralls and install the beer refrigerator, you're up to about $1000/linear foot! Polish those puppies!!! Treat them like royalty!
> 
> And AZ-Flyer, welcome to the forum. Please don't feel attacked or the need to defend the service you're offering; we're just DIY addicts and are always looking for cheaper alternatives. It's nice to have you join us!


I don't feel attacked, or having to defend my service.
And I'm the first to look for the cheapest way to do something, if it can save me time and money in the long run.:thumbsup:
Like they say in the Service: "There is the Right Way, the Wrong Way and Your Way"

Thanks for the welcome.

Az-Flyer


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## NIMT

Len I agree 100%
And thanks for the great laugh!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'm certainly not trying to chase anyone, just pointing out what may be obvious, and maybe not. I'd love to have one of those wheels, but to buy one without actually seeing it in action, $130+ is a bit too rich. I know how buffing wheels work, I already have a bench buffer and polishing compound.


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## AZ-Flyer

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm certainly not trying to chase anyone, just pointing out what may be obvious, and maybe not. I'd love to have one of those wheels, but to buy one without actually seeing it in action, $130+ is a bit too rich. I know how buffing wheels work, I already have a bench buffer and polishing compound.


This is the problem.......... Everyone is associating the burnishing wheel with buffing wheels. They are completely different. Buffing is old technology, which uses polishing compounds and different wheels.:thumbsdown: Burnishing is just the wheel no compounds or additives needed.:thumbsup:This is new technology which came out of the space age. All you need is time...30 seconds to one minute per track (if you have good hand skills).


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, you also need that $130+ to buy the wheel.


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## AZ-Flyer

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, you also need that $130+ to buy the wheel.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$.......$130.00

It seems everyone can come up with the money to buy more trains including me. I would think you would like to run them on your layout with good clean track to start with, but maybe not? 

You may want to keep them in the box and leave them to your grand kids. Then you don't need the burnishing or buffing wheel.

Have good week. I have to burnish some old track to sell on eBay. Do you have any old track that I can buy cheap? 

AZ-Flyer


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, it's not the $130 or so, but the uncertainty of exactly how well this would actually work. It's easy to get caught up in the moment, but stuff like this I like to actually see before I spend my money. If I buy most other pieces of equipment, I'm sure of exactly what I'm going to get. In this case, I'm not sure how easy or effective it'll actually be, or how long that wheel will last. It's not that I believe it can't work, I just don't know how effective, easy, or cost effective it would end up being. It's not like there aren't other ways to clean track...


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## tjcruiser

AZ-Flyer,

Two questions ...

1. Any advice / tips on how to burnish with enough care to avoid degrading the paint on the cross ties?

2. Do you (or the burnishing pad) ever have a hands-on display at any local (large) train shows? (Thinking in New England for my specific interests.)

Thanks,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'd love to actually see this thing in operation, it could be the next great thing. I just don't want to spend the money and be disappointed.


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## Stillakid

*Value?*

AZ-Flyer, I couldn't agree more with your statements:thumbsup:

Len, thank you for all that info, as always, you get right to the point!

John, the web site you posted doesn't have a, "Burnishing Wheel" that matches what we've been discussing. I don't agree with your logic. Sometimes, you just have to go with other peoples experiences and trust that someone that has as much love of the hobby wouldn't steer you wrong

Enough said on this topic!!

Regards,
Jim


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## gunrunnerjohn

Stillakid said:


> John, the web site you posted doesn't have a, "Burnishing Wheel" that matches what we've been discussing.


The price I quoted was from his reference to an eBay auction of $119 + 12.95 shipping. As far as the site I posted, I didn't say it has burnishing wheels, I was speaking of the alternatives since I can't find such a wheel at a reasonable price. 



> Sometimes, you just have to go with other peoples experiences and trust that someone that has as much love of the hobby wouldn't steer you wrong


Sometimes I do, but not every time.  Do you own one of these wheels? If not, what are you basing your opinion on? Lots of people have opinions on topics, that doesn't necessarily make then correct.

It seems in your eyes, it's not allowed to question a conclusion. I don't see things that way, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. :dunno:


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## Stillakid

John, I could write a page long response to your reply and you still wouldn't get it.

I'm done with this topic. Time to move on...........


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## gunrunnerjohn

You're right, I probably wouldn't get it. The question is, do you get it?

I agree, time to move on.


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## Big Ed

25 cents a track might not be bad if you live close and can drop it off and pick it up.

But the shipping to and return up the total considerably.

Anyway good luck with it, it looks like it does an excellent job of cleaning the track.:thumbsup:

Has it been said yet, how well does it work on three rail? 
Does it work on 3 rail? I guess it should?


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## Reckers

A better question would be, "Does anything work well on 3 rails?"


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## gunrunnerjohn

Reckers said:


> A better question would be, "Does anything work well on 3 rails?"


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## Reckers

I just love jerking the occasional O-gauge chain...

Somebody out there feed me another straight line!!!


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## AZ-Flyer

Reckers said:


> I just love jerking the occasional O-gauge chain...
> 
> Somebody out there feed me another straight line!!!



Someone said something about jerking 0 gauge chain....I got to jump back in on this thread! 

Thanks for stirring the pot while I was gone doing more important things....like running my American Flyer Trains on my S Gauge Layout.:thumbsup:

I will try an answer some questions people asked:
No, I haven't been to any model train shows....you talk about cost$$$$$$
No, I haven't tried burnishing 3 rail track....they don't make that for S gauge American Flyer.
There was a question about how long a new wheel would last. In the orthopedic field I was in, we used this wheel ever day for five days a week for for fifty two weeks a year. we replayed the wheel proply ever 6 to 8 months of heavy use. For an individusl it should at least three years or more. 
It's an idea to try to do some Lionel track in three rail and post it on this tread for all to see. I might have to charge more because that is a extra rail to burnish. Then you have to think about the added weight and size of the track when shipping. Now your talking $$$$$......Ha guys! I'm just pulling your chain.....hwell: 

Lets get back to what is important.....burnishing three rail Lionel track and posting video for all to see.:thumbsup: I will have to pick up some track from one of my TCA friends that collects Lionel trains. These Lionel guys are really nice here in Arizona. It must be something to do about the heat...

AZ-Flyer


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## Reckers

AZ-Flyer said:


> Someone said something about jerking 0 gauge chain....I got to jump back in on this thread!
> 
> Thanks for stirring the pot while I was gone doing more important things....like running my American Flyer Trains on my S Gauge Layout.:thumbsup:
> 
> I will try an answer some questions people asked:
> No, I haven't been to any model train shows....you talk about cost$$$$$$
> No, I haven't tried burnishing 3 rail track....they don't make that for S gauge American Flyer.
> There was a question about how long a new wheel would last. In the orthopedic field I was in, we used this wheel ever day for five days a week for for fifty two weeks a year. we replayed the wheel proply ever 6 to 8 months of heavy use. For an individusl it should at least three years or more.
> It's an idea to try to do some Lionel track in three rail and post it on this tread for all to see. I might have to charge more because that is a extra rail to burnish. Then you have to think about the added weight and size of the track when shipping. Now your talking $$$$$......Ha guys! I'm just pulling your chain.....hwell:
> 
> *Lets get back to what is important.....burnishing three rail Lionel track and posting video for all to see.:thumbsup: I will have to pick up some track from one of my TCA friends that collects Lionel trains. These Lionel guys are really nice here in Arizona. It must be something to do about the heat*...
> 
> AZ-Flyer


Politeness often grows out of desperation. Perhaps they're desperate for something to make their Lionel sets work?


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## Stillakid

*hehehehe!*

Reckers, that and other things!
AZ-Flyer, they'll probably keep you so busy with their 3-rail that you won't have time for your "Real" trains


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## AZ-Flyer

Stillakid said:


> Reckers, that and other things!
> AZ-Flyer, they'll probably keep you so busy with their 3-rail that you won't have time for your "Real" trains


Great come back!:thumbsup: Yes I lost some sleep over that idea last night.....what do they call that a nightmare

Well I am off to my woodcavers club meeting, then heading over to get some 3-rail track, to give it a try

AZ-Flyer


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## tjcruiser

AZ,

Thanks for chiming back in. I'm intrigued about the wheel. Your cited usage-per-wheel info is rather encouraging.

Tips on avoiding crosstime paint damage ???

TJ


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> CHEAP TRACK???? Sir, I beg to differ! By the time you take that 6' oval and add 50 additional pieces of rolling stock, 5 steamers and 4 diesels, 24 buildings and a series of upgrades in transformers, wiring, lighting, sound, take over the living room for the expanded layout, pay off the now ex-wife for the divorce, remarry with a woman you only recognize by her pin-striped coveralls and install the beer refrigerator, you're up to about $1000/linear foot! Polish those puppies!!! Treat them like royalty!
> 
> And AZ-Flyer, welcome to the forum. Please don't feel attacked or the need to defend the service you're offering; we're just DIY addicts and are always looking for cheaper alternatives. It's nice to have you join us!



Yes we are talking about cheap track, you don't need to buff anything else.
Just the cheap track. cheap, cheap, cheap.



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You're right, I probably wouldn't get it. The question is, do you get it?
> 
> I agree, time to move on.


Wise move John, the S modelers think that any other scale sucks, they are the all mighty. :worshippy:
It is just that their mentality is not the brightest, they can't see anything but S.



AZ-Flyer said:


> Great come back!:thumbsup: Yes I lost some sleep over that idea last night.....what do they call that a nightmare
> 
> Well I am off to my woodcavers club meeting, then heading over to get some 3-rail track, to give it a try
> 
> AZ-Flyer


Don't even bother trying 3 rail, I wouldn't want you to get ribbed by your S buddies.

Like someone said I would like to see a bad piece of rail done without ever taking the camera off the piece.
It almost looks like a bait and switch video.



Enough said on this topic!!
Regards,
Jim 

Yes enough now......are you going back to lurking now Jim?
well, nice hearing from you.

I know you S guys like jerking chains.....and I know that you can't stand to get jerked back.
Edit, all but maybe Len?
That is a fact....Jack.....that is why we can't edit anymore either.
One flew over the cuckoo's nest.
He just could not take the S bashing a blew a head gasket.
But he can sure dish it out.

You S fanatics have a good night now.:bs::worshippy:


Note,
take note I did not bash S trains, just the people who have them.
As I stated many times I like ALL scales, gauges, whatever you want to call it.

THEY ARE ALL TRAINS JUST DIFFERENT >>>>>>> SIZES!:smokin::thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Whoaaa ... take a deep breath here, guys ... the 4th of July is a long way off ... we don't need any fireworks flying around here.

Let's keep this thread focused on the track cleaning, OK? Not on S vs. O banter ... please?

TJ


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## AZ-Flyer

This is for the O Scale Guys, that want to clean (burnish) there own track. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I will not talk about the make of track, because I just work with and on American Flyer......and I have friends that collect everything from G, O, S, HO, N etc. I will just till you what worked for me in burnishing the three rail track, and what did not work for me or I had a problem with.
I went ahead and burnished all three sections of track (the good, bad, ugly.
I only burnished the left side of each section of track, but all three rails.
The burnishing of the rails was not the problem in any three sections.
The problem that I found was I could not get between the rails of the O gauge track being narrower then S gauge. This was because of three rails rather then two rails.*
The next problem I found was because this is O gauge, the rails are higher compared to S gauge track and could not get far enough under the rails.
After taking these photos, I got the idea of getting out my hand held 10.8v Dremel with the small wire brush attachment. This cleaned up all the rust and corrosion underneath the rails that I could not get at with the burnishing wheel. The good track I did not wire brush the sides of the rails, because I liked the looks of it. The bad track I did wire brush under the rails and it came out just like new. The ugly track I also wire brushed under the rails. To my surprise it came out looking more weathered. I myself would just seal the sides of the rail with a clear paint spray and re-burnish the tops of the rails to get any over spray off. The track was still very much usable.
The burnishing wheel doing its job on top and sides of the rails, and the Dremel wire brush doing its job under the sides of the rails. In all I think we found a right combination for all track cleaning and burnishing no matter two or three rails.

AZ-Flyer

For photos and up dates go to: http://sgaugers.blogspot.com/p/burnishing-american-flyer-train-track.html

Note: Just go to the bottom of the page where I RED-LINED-IT!


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## tjcruiser

AZ,

Thanks for the investigation / experimentations and reports. Much appreciated.

TJ


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## Reckers

Teej,

Speaking only for myself, rather than the entire bleSSed brethren....*L*...Ed has always been a true friend of ourS. He takes ribbing well, dishes it out equally well, and we never take any offense from his gentle teasing. 

And since I don't want to embarrass him, I won't comment on that...stuff...he runs. It's not his fault.


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## AZ-Flyer

*I happen to have one well used burnishing wheel I used on the video to give away. *Just quote this post and I will put you all in on a drawing at the end of next week-10/31, for (one) free well used (on video) burnishing wheel. I will even pay the shipping. Just post what you honestly think about this burnishing wheel after you use it. Let see how many people read this thread and willing to take a chance at winning free "burnishing wheel. This drawing is open to all gauges, but just one post per person please.

AZ-Flyer


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## Stillakid

"I know you S guys like jerking chains.....and I know that you can't stand to get jerked back.
Edit, all but maybe Len?
That is a fact....Jack.....that is why we can't edit anymore either.
One flew over the cuckoo's nest.
He just could not take the S bashing a blew a head gasket.
But he can sure dish it out."

Ed, IF, this is about me, the only time I "Blew A Gasket", was over the spelling/punctuation issue.
As far as "Lurking", unless I have something I feel is "constructive/Informative" I usually don't post. I don't feel a need to post something on every thread or to comment on scales I have no knowledge of. But rest assured, I do try and read every thread, regardless of scale because so many here have so much knowledge and are free in sharing it.

I would say that my time here has been a wonderful experience and one that has taught me much about working on my trains(Thank You T-Man!:thumbsup

Regards,
Jim


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## Timboy

AZ-Flyer:

Quote: Just post what you honestly think about this burnishing wheel after you use it. End Quote.

You KNOW that I will post an honest appraisal of burnishing American Flyer track with that wheel! I'll do so on this Forum and I'll make a posting on my blog for all to reference. It's what I do. Thanks for the offer.

Timboy


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## tjcruiser

AZ-Flyer said:


> *I happen to have one well used burnishing wheel I used on the video to give away. *Just quote this post and I will put you all in on a drawing at the end of next week-10/31, for (one) free well used (on video) burnishing wheel. I will even pay the shipping. Just post what you honestly think about this burnishing wheel after you use it. Let see how many people read this thread and willing to take a chance at winning free "burnishing wheel. This drawing is open to all gauges, but just one post per person please.
> 
> AZ-Flyer


I'm in. Nice offer. Would love to try it on some old O-27 track.

TJ


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## tjcruiser

Stillakid said:


> Ed, IF, this is about me, the only time I "Blew A Gasket", was over the spelling/punctuation issue.


As the humbled originator of that infamous fireworks thread, I'd like to politely point out that it wasn't a critique of spelling/punctuation per se (as you suggest), but rather a critique of guys using too many tech-device crypto cheats to write their posts. I'll use Greg's tounge-in-cheek post as an example ...



choo choo said:


> u ppl qt yr bchn an gt a lif gerg


... not trying to open that can of worms again, but just trying to clarify a bit.

TJ


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> "I know you S guys like jerking chains.....and I know that you can't stand to get jerked back.
> Edit, all but maybe Len?
> That is a fact....Jack.....that is why we can't edit anymore either.
> One flew over the cuckoo's nest.
> He just could not take the S bashing a blew a head gasket.
> But he can sure dish it out."
> 
> Ed, IF, this is about me, the only time I "Blew A Gasket", was over the spelling/punctuation issue.
> As far as "Lurking", unless I have something I feel is "constructive/Informative" I usually don't post. I don't feel a need to post something on every thread or to comment on scales I have no knowledge of. But rest assured, I do try and read every thread, regardless of scale because so many here have so much knowledge and are free in sharing it.
> 
> I would say that my time here has been a wonderful experience and one that has taught me much about working on my trains(Thank You T-Man!:thumbsup
> 
> Regards,
> Jim




Nope it was not you that I was referring to Jim.
"Someone" else went nuts deleting all his posts. That is why a 24hr editing limit was set. 

Don't cut yourself short Jim, you have a lot of useful knowledge too.

Lurking? 
That is the name you gave yourself a while back. 
I just go with it.
We never know if your here or not, like today you don't show up in the members online stats.

And for the record I did not say anything about the spelling incident.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=4306

It is not like me to start trouble.


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## Stillakid

TJ, not to get into a @%#$^@$#% match, but do you always need to be right? Or for that matter involved? I was answering biged and he very nicely responded. We're all big boys and don't always need a "Mother" to settle our differences. Nothing in my posting required your input or moderating.

Best Wishes
Jm


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## Big Ed

Stillakid said:


> TJ, not to get into a @%#$^@$#% match, but do you always need to be right? Or for that matter involved? I was answering biged and he very nicely responded. We're all big boys and don't always need a "Mother" to settle our differences. Nothing in my posting required your input or moderating.
> 
> Best Wishes
> Jm














You forgot to add HEN after mother.


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## gunrunnerjohn

AZ-Flyer said:


> *I happen to have one well used burnishing wheel I used on the video to give away. *Just quote this post and I will put you all in on a drawing at the end of next week-10/31, for (one) free well used (on video) burnishing wheel. I will even pay the shipping. Just post what you honestly think about this burnishing wheel after you use it. Let see how many people read this thread and willing to take a chance at winning free "burnishing wheel. This drawing is open to all gauges, but just one post per person please.
> 
> AZ-Flyer


Well, I for one would love to try it. If it works as well as you say, I'd most likely buy a new burnishing wheel.


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## Stillakid

AZ-FLyer, I'd like to give it a try!

Regards,
Jim


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## tjcruiser

Stillakid said:


> TJ, not to get into a @%#$^@$#% match, but do you always need to be right? Or for that matter involved? I was answering biged and he very nicely responded. We're all big boys and don't always need a "Mother" to settle our differences. Nothing in my posting required your input or moderating.
> 
> Best Wishes
> Jm


Jim,

So I need to check with your first, before I offer any thoughts here on the forum? 

TJ


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## Stillakid

TJ, your contributions to the forum have been fantastic!
I wasn't talking about that, but about stepping in over something that doesn't require any kind of mediation or moderating. Sometimes, it's better to wait and see if the air, clears on it's own. I didn't see the need for your input between biged and I. We've been going back and forth since forever(or so it seems!)

Often, when others decide they need to get involved, it sometimes feels as though nothing, turns into something. Kinda like now!!


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Jim,
> 
> So I need to check with your first, before I offer any thoughts here on the forum?
> 
> TJ





Stillakid said:


> TJ, your contributions to the forum have been fantastic!
> I wasn't talking about that, but about stepping in over something that doesn't require any kind of mediation or moderating. Sometimes, it's better to wait and see if the air, clears on it's own. I didn't see the need for your input between biged and I. We've been going back and forth since forever(or so it seems!)
> 
> Often, when others decide they need to get involved, it sometimes feels as though nothing, turns into something. Kinda like now!!



OK kiss and make up now.

Back to the thread topic please.


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## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> Back to the thread topic please.


Nice moderating Ed, bucking for TJ's job?


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## AZ-Flyer

AZ-Flyer said:


> *I happen to have one well used burnishing wheel I used on the video to give away. *Just quote this post and I will put you all in on a drawing at the end of next week-10/31, for (one) free well used (on video) burnishing wheel. I will even pay the shipping. Just post what you honestly think about this burnishing wheel after you use it. Let see how many people read this thread and willing to take a chance at winning free "burnishing wheel. This drawing is open to all gauges, but just one post per person please.
> 
> AZ-Flyer


With only four people in on the drawing so far, that gives everyone a 25% chance of winning. Good luck to all, Timboy, Tjcruiser, Gunrunnerjohn, and Stillakid.

AZ--Flyer


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## gunrunnerjohn

I figured there'd be a lot more interest in this.


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## Reckers

I'm interested in the outcome, but you guys did all the work. It wouldn't be fair for me to jump in at the end and say, "Free? Oh, then put my name into the hat, too!"


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## Timboy

AZ-Flyer:

Actually, you can take my name back out of the hat. I happened to look through a junk box at my brother's house this morning and came up with one that he didn't want. Thanks to your post, I was able to recognize what I was looking at when rooting through that junk box. Otherwise, I probably would have overlooked it. Thanks for the offer. Now everyone else has a better chance! Probably should go to an S-Gauger, though. lol

-Timboy


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## Reckers

Tim,

What the other three haven't worked out, yet, is that whoever wins has to do everyone else's track.


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## Stillakid

Tim, it appears that they do things "Bass Ackwards" in Kentucky. Either that, or Lens been in the "Shine" again!


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## Reckers

Jim,

Remember who you're talking to. Tim is the guy who insulated his track to give his locomotives better traction!


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## Stillakid

*Tim, Reckers is talking about you!...........*

Len, no picking on Timboy, you know that he's a, "Legend In His Own Mind!":laugh::laugh::laugh:

BTW, before you go out and spend money on parts and such, you should let me know. I've got boxes of misc stuff I end up with when I bid on "AF/American Flyer Lots!"


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## Stillakid

*Parts and Such*

Len, I've just started back on that 342AC project from last year. It is a "bear" finding parts for it I did pick up a NPR Tender in nice shape though

I also managed to pick up a 325AC w/Whistle Tender I may have 21105 S&C(plastic boiler), that could find it's way to The Blue Grass State!


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## Timboy

Funny comments. And all from those who walk upright. lol Maybe my name should be in the hat to keep that burnishing wheel out of enemy hands. Guys in Superior Gauge can burnish track in two-thirds the time. lol


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## NIMT

Heck I should get it and put it to better use than cleaning some cheap old rusty track. I'll use it to clean up my old chevy pickup parts!


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## Stillakid

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are, that's funny!!


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## Stillakid

AZ-Flyer, I know that Pikemaster track is "worthless junk", but will it also clean it, or is the plating so thin it would just eat through?


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## Timboy

What plating?


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## Stillakid

Timboy, some of this track I have is flaking. Is that rust or plating?


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## Timboy

Kid:

Occasionally, some 3-railer will swear up & down that Flyer track is plated - as in tinplated. The 3-rail stuff they call track is plated over a base metal and when the cheap plating wears away, the 3-rail stuff rusts. While the superior American Flyer track may have had some type of protective coating wiped on it when it left the factory, after 60+ years that coating is long gone. Flyer track will not rust, IMHO. It will corrode. I have never seen any type of "plating" flake off of Flyer track. I have seen corrosion though. But thanks to AZ-Flyer, corroded American Flyer track can be restored to glorious and wondrous condition by cleaning and burnishing. Try that with rusted 3-rail track. Not that I'm biased. lol

OBTW, I don't think Pikemaster track is junk. The problem I see with it is that the curves have too sharp a radius. If I could figure out a way to re-bend Pikemaster curved track, I think it would make a terrific-looking track spiked down on cork roadbed and ballasted. Not that I'm biased. lol

-Timboy


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## Timboy

Kid:

I can see a retort coming from you that I will try to head off at the pass. Pre-war American Flyer trains operate on 3 rails. However, pre-war American Flyer trains were never intended to be scale representations of real trains. They were intended to be toys that were based on the idea of trains. They were actually terrific works of art! So were the standard gauge trains back in the day. The problem is that post-war Lionel trains were meant to be accurate representations of the real thing. We all know they are not. Hence, the bad rap for 3-rails and 3-railers. I don't categorized pre-war American Flyer trains as merely 3-rail trains. Not that I'm biased. lol

-Timboy


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## Major

I have all kinds of trains American Flyer from Wide gauge to O gauge to 3/16ths on O track , S gauge and H O. I agree with you Tim that the early pre war stuff are works of art. They are awesome for what they are, and a hoot to run! I just restored a Flyer wide gauge crossing signal for my son and you have to admire the toy makers art from the 20s and 30s.


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## Timboy

Major:

I have never seen pre-war American Flyer nor 1920's standard gauge trains set up as a realistic hi-rail layout. They always seem to get set up in a toy train or museum display format. I would like to see how far the concept of a realistic hi-rail model railroad could be applied to those two genres. Picture works of art against the backdrop of to-die-for scenery. What would there be not to like?

-Timboy


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## AZ-Flyer

Timboy said:


> Funny comments. And all from those who walk upright. lol Maybe my name should be in the hat to keep that burnishing wheel out of enemy hands. Guys in Superior Gauge can burnish track in two-thirds the time. lol


Tim,

I think I could do it in half the time! Next I'll have to burnish track with a stop watch showing in the video. lol

Well I am going to hit the sack now. I will have to get up and ship out all the American Flyer items the club sold over the weekend on eBay. Now if we could pickup a few more members.

We just added one more to list on the drawing (Reckers) which make (5) five.

Keep me posted! AZ-flyer


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## Reckers

Stillakid said:


> Len, no picking on Timboy, you know that he's a, "Legend In His Own Mind!":laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> BTW, before you go out and spend money on parts and such, you should let me know. I've got boxes of misc stuff I end up with when I bid on "AF/American Flyer Lots!"


Jim, I appreciate the offer! If I come up missing anything on my repair jobs, I'll email you before I shop for anything. Right now, I'm still wiring and terra-forming to get the layout running. I'm rigging it to have three separate segments on three separate transformers with the loops isolated from one another with nylon pins. If I do it correctly, I should be able to run three consists at once, using the switches to shunt onto different loops to avoid collisions and simulate different types of traffic. I still need to securely elevate two stretches of track, but hope to get that part done this weekend and wire in the last loop. I bought a rerailer yesterday and noticed a Junque box had an assortment of the clips for connecting wire to track @ 25 cents each and picked up three of them for...well, you know. *L* Ya gotta have parts! Let me know if you need any.


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## Reckers

Stillakid said:


> Len, I've just started back on that 342AC project from last year. It is a "bear" finding parts for it I did pick up a NPR Tender in nice shape though
> 
> I also managed to pick up a 325AC w/Whistle Tender I may have 21105 S&C(plastic boiler), that could find it's way to The Blue Grass State!


Always have a home here for Flyers that need a place to land, Jim---thank you for considering me. What parts are you needing for that 342 AC?


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## Reckers

AZ-Flyer said:


> Tim,
> 
> I think I could do it in half the time! Next I'll have to burnish track with a stop watch showing in the video. lol
> 
> Well I am going to hit the sack now. I will have to get up and ship out all the American Flyer items the club sold over the weekend on eBay. Now if we could pickup a few more members.
> 
> We just added one more to list on the drawing (Reckers) which make (5) five.
> 
> Keep me posted! AZ-flyer



AZ-Flyer, that was mighty kind of you. I've noticed that S scale conversations bring out the finer side of a man---I suppose it comes from running the finest equipment available.  Thank you, again!


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## AZ-Flyer

NIMT said:


> Heck I should get it and put it to better use than cleaning some cheap old rusty track. I'll use it to clean up my old chevy pickup parts!


NIMT,

Are you in on the drawing or just "toying" with idea? Ha, I used it on old truck parts......It worked great. What works better is a sand blaster with walnut shells.:thumbsup:

AZ-Flyer


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## AZ-Flyer

AZ-Flyer said:


> NIMT,
> 
> Are you in on the drawing or just "toying" with idea? Ha, I used it on old truck parts......It worked great. What works better is a sand blaster with walnut shells.:thumbsup:
> 
> AZ-Flyer


The drawing will be held the first thing tomarrow morning, so it will give everyone a chance to get in on winning a free burnishing wheel.
Good luck to all......

AZ-Flyer


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## Reckers

Be still, my heart!!!!


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## AZ-Flyer

*Winner of the Burnishing Wheel*



AZ-Flyer said:


> The drawing will be held the first thing tomarrow morning, so it will give everyone a chance to get in on winning a free burnishing wheel.
> Good luck to all......
> 
> AZ-Flyer


The Winner is..................................TJ Cruiser

Congratulations

Please send your shipping address to Az-Flyer
via e-mail: [email protected]

Thank You to all, for all of your comments and suggestions on how to burnish train track in "your way", not my way!

AZ-Flyer


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## Reckers

Congratulations, TJ! AZ-Flyer, thank you for such a generous contribution!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser

Oh my! It's my lucky day!

AZ -- thanks very much for the offer / generosity. I'll email address info, and look forward to giving the disc the ol' "college try" on some rusty Lionel O27 track. I'll report back findings.

Again, I really appreciate the technical dialog in this thread, and am keen to evaluate the disc firsthand!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Stillakid

AZ-Flyer, thank you for making such a generous contribution to the forum. I'm sure that TJ will put it to the test and give us all a very accurate and techinical report

TJ, Congrats!!


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## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

Just wanted to report that the burnishing wheel from AZ-Flyer arrived today. It's surface texture is quite unique ... more of a low-pile carpet feel, rather than a ScotchBrite pad feel.

I hope to mount it to my grinder and give it a test-run in the next few days. I'll keep you guys posted.

AZ ... many, many thanks!!!

TJ


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## Reckers

Please do---I think it's interesting. If the low-pile works that well, maybe we can rig up a shag wheel and see how it runs.


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## AZ-Flyer

tjcruiser said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just wanted to report that the burnishing wheel from AZ-Flyer arrived today. It's surface texture is quite unique ... more of a low-pile carpet feel, rather than a ScotchBrite pad feel.
> 
> I hope to mount it to my grinder and give it a test-run in the next few days. I'll keep you guys posted.
> 
> AZ ... many, many thanks!!!
> 
> TJ


TJ,

Glad you got the burnishing wheel today an you are going to give it good test run. You might have notice I sent you a better "used wheel" than I had in the video and pictures. After looking up your professional back ground I new you would have many uses for the wheel, in many different areas of your expertize.

AZ-Flyer


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## tjcruiser

Hi guys,

Well, I had some fun with dust (or rust!) flying around in the basement last night. I gave AZ-Flyer's burnishing wheel a test run on some old O27 tubular track, and would like to present a summary of my thoughts and findings along with some show-and-tell photos ...

The wheel itself ...

Is about 4.75" in diameter with a 2" axial width. The burnishing surface feels more like a very dense, low-pile carpet rather than a typical ScotchBrite pad.

I mounted the wheel on my 6" Delta bench grinder. A bit to my dismay, I needed to remove the protective cover and the tool support rack on the grinder, in order to get the width of the wheel to fit. Further, my grinder has a 1/2" diameter spindle, whereas the wheel has a recessed wood core with a 5/8" diameter bore. There is no bushing in the wheel center, so I needed to clamp the wheel in compression between the grinder's spindle mount-rings, and then fiddle with its position a bit so that the axis of the wheel was (more or less) aligned with the axis of the grinder spindle. Not an ideal setup, but the problem was perhaps mine ... I should have used a 1/2" I.D. / 5/8" O.D. bushing, instead. Also, with the cover guard removed from the grinder, safety is a concern. I wore goggles and leather gloves while working on the track.



















As a parallel experiment and comparison, I tried cleaning pieces of track with a brass wire disc-brush mounted in my drill press:










The "test victims" were various pieces of dirty, partially rusty, old Lionel O27 three-rail tubular track ... both straight and curved.

The three tracks in each of these photos (both straight and curved) are (in order from top to bottom):

-- Rusty track, as found
-- Track rails cleaned with the drill-press-mounted brass wire brush
-- Track rails cleaned with the grinder-mounted burnishing wheel



















I've used the brass wire brush to clean tubular track in the past. It's a tedious process, and it takes some brute force to tackle away the surface grime and rust. The results above (middle track section) are via about one-minute's worth of effort on each track. Some improvement to the rail, but not sparkling.

The burnishing wheel, on the other hand, works incredibly fast. The tops of rails polished easily to a glowing shine in about 15 or 20 seconds of work on each track section. I focused on the tops of rails and the end pins, for good electrical continuity. I didn't see a risk of damaging the paint or insulation on the cross ties. That said, I would be more difficult to attempt to tackle the recessed sides of the rail tubes with the wheel ... especially the middle rail. Doable, perhaps ... but I didn't venture down this road.

The results ...

Per the photos above, the brass brush yields mediocre improvements to the rails. Top of rail rust can be removed, but the rails don't easily sparkle with polish and shine. The burnishing wheel, in contrast, removes rust and grime quikly, leaving gleaming tops of rails. (That lower-most piece of straight track was especially rusty, to start.)

Some worries, though ...

With the burnishing wheel working so quickly and easily, I figured, "Hey ... this is a good thing ... let me go at it a bit more ..." Well, I think too much of a good thing may be a bad thing. On a couple pieces of track, I worked the track on the burnishing wheel for a minute or so. Rather than seeing (the prior) gleaming top of rails, I was seeing a darker, slightly more rough metal surface. At first, I thought this was some sort of a waxy residue (like you might see with a polishing compound stick). But at closer glance, I think burnished too much ... right through the chrome (?) protective layer on the tubular rails, down to the base-metal core. Not ideal.

This next photo offers a bit more ...

The top curved track was cleaned on the right side with the burnishing wheel, and on the left side with the wire brush. The lighting of in the photo is not great, and I apologize a bit ... But any first-hand look would show gleaming tops of rails on the burnished section, and mediocre rails on the brushed section.

The bottom curved track reveals "too much of a good thing", where I burnished through the chrome plating on the right-hand side of the rails. At close look, you can see a darker (and rougher) rail surface.










All in all ...

I like the burnishing wheel, and will put it to good use. It polished the tops of tubular rail very, very quickly, with gleaming results. Care must be taken to not polish away the chrome plating, but with about only 20 seconds or so devoted to each track section, one can make quick work of that rusty box of track.

Tackling the sides of the tubular rails will take some more thought. That said, many modelers like the "rusty rail" look, for realism, as long as the top surface is shiny with good conductivity.

A word of safety is warranted for everyone, too. I don't like using my grinder without a protective cover, though it's possible that a larger-model bench grinder would allow for this.

Many thanks to AZ-Flyer and all of you above for the dialog and offer of a test run here. I hope these findings are informative to all.

TJ


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## AZ-Flyer

TJ,

I read you burnishing report with interest. You learned by doing (using the wheel). There is a number of changes I would make to your setup. The first, I would be is to get an arbor with the 5/8” bushing. I believe I found mine on line or at Ace Hardware Store. The second thing I would mount the wheel on a machine that does not go over 1,000 rpm’s (800 is best) Use a reduced pulley system like a a drill press. I have seen some drill presses that swing sideways, that would be the best way. As you found out you can clean a section of track in 20 seconds. Do not push any harder then just touching the surface of the burnishing wheel. The wheel does the work. As you found out pushing harder and longer is not better! Also if you have a bench grinder mount it on a pedestal stand is best. This way you can burnish the track from the bottom side of the wheel (view my pictures please). I have used a shop vac mounted to the back side of the pedestal stand to suck up and dust particles from burnishing the track sections. It is a lot cleaner and safer this way. 

The track looks great, now it time to run some model trains................

AZ-Flyer

Valley of the Sun "S" Gaugers


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## tjcruiser

AZ,

Thanks for the extra tips, above. I'm learning as I go, and all of your points above make perfect sense.

When I first tried to burnish/clean the very first piece of track, I naively was pushing the track with some hard pressure into the wheel. But after fiddling with a few track sections, I learned that a very light touch is best, as you say above.

I will track down a bushing for the grinder. (My little grinder has one speed, only.) I'll also see if I have an arbor/chuck that would mount the wheel in my drill press ... I can belt-pulley that down to pretty low speed.

I'll learn more as I go, but with my first baby-step efforts above, I am duly impressed with the cleaning/burnishing ability of the wheel ... fast/easy work. And all that other old, rusty track now calling out my name!

Many thanks. I'm delighted to have the wheel now in my helpfup tool inventory!!!

TJ


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## AZ-Flyer

Notice:
For those of you who ordered the burnishing wheel. Thank you, they were out of stock for while. Just got some more in from China! For the people who are sending me track too burnish, thank you also. You will now have to wait till after the holidays to get it back if you send it now. Please e-mail me before shipping...please. 
I'm have received positive feedback on the burnishing wheel and the burnishing service.
Thank You all....

Happy Holidays to Everyone,
AZ-Flyer


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## tjcruiser

I'll add here that I've been using my burnishing wheel to clean/polish more than just track. It's been doing a great job of polishing up copper boiler domes for prewar Lionel locos, and even put a beautiful sheen on a tinplate Lionel 1681 boiler that I've clearcoated for a restoration project.

Oh, the possibilities!!!

(Thanks, again, AZ-Flyer!)

TJ


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