# Walthers' Life-Like buyout... good or bad?



## wiley2012 (Dec 8, 2012)

It had to be asked, since Life-Like was always one of my favorite railroad companies (probably because my first train set for starting my model railroad in 2000 was from Life-Like!)

What is your opinion on Walthers buying Life-Like Trains and Racing back in 2005?

For me, it's kind of variable.
Unlike Walthers, or Bachmann and Tyco (except Tyco's origins go back to Mantua), Life-Like never started out with model trains. It was a spinoff of Lifoam, and since their famous foam ice chests were more of a seasonal item, they needed to also make something that could be bought year round. Then they saw that model railroading was getting popular after World War II, so they decided to use their foam mastering to offer tunnels as well, before expanding to offer a variety of scenery products in the 1950s and 1960s (sort of like how Bachmann started out with building kits before evolving to what they are today.) Then they began to expand, offering rolling stock and building kits (this led to their infamous McDonald's building kit as well!) Then they purchased the old Varney line, began offering more accessories, and soon by the mid-1980s they became a worthy competitor of Bachmann, Tyco and AHM (during the 1970s and early 1980s, Bachmann and Tyco were the two really popular HO manufacturers in the industry.)
Life-Like's biggest periods of business were probably from the mid-1980s until after the 1990s. During that time they were one of the big HO model railroading companies, along with Bachmann and Model Power, and their Proto 2000 products introduced in 1989 (as well as Proto 1000 introduced in 1998) were worthy competitors for Athearn, Kato and others.

So in 2005, Lifoam went and sold their Life-Like line, which had all started from an idea to keep their Lifoam company in business during the non-summer seasons, to Walthers, as they seemed like a more dedicated model railroad manufacturer. Some good stuff did come out of this...

There are still Life-Like HO train sets being offered, and are often great for model railroad beginners.
Many Life-Like building kits that have been made since the 1970s are still being made today. Their classic KFC building kit (endorsed by Colonel Sanders himself back in the 1970s!) is also still offered, too.
Walthers has the Life-Like SceneMaster line, which helps make them a good competitor to Bachmann, along with Woodland Scenics and their product line.
They have their "Scene Essentials" sets, somewhat reminiscent of their "Build-a-Scene" products of the 1980s and 1990s (but without the landscaping.)
They offer SceneMaster knuckle couplers that, with careful fitting/adjusting, can also be installed in older rolling stock and certain locomotives from other companies as well (such as Tyco/Mantua.)
Their Tyco-esque crossing gate is still offered, and is more affordable than Bachmann's (it looks even more like Tyco's version than the Bachmann version does!)
The Proto 2000 line is still offered under the Walthers Proto banner, along with some of the Proto 1000 products (there are also some Proto 1000 products under the Walthers Mainline banner.)

The bad stuff...
They do not offer any conventional track in nickel-silver, only steel. They are also planning on discontinuing their nickel-silver Power-Loc track.
They discontinued their high-quality N-gauge locomotives and rolling stock.
The "regular" Life-Like locomotives still use dated technology and mechanics from at least the 1980s.
Their "regular" train sets come with X2F/horn-hook couplers. I don't know any other companies that still use horn-hooks. For a while, they did offer the train sets with SceneMaster knuckle couplers already installed, but stopped doing so. (When I got my Freight Runner train set back in 2010, it had the horn-hook couplers, but I have since replaced them with knuckle couplers  )
A few of Life-Like's scenic HO-scale products (like some of their light-ups and signs) were rebranded for O-scale, even though they still have their original HO proportions!
The "Basics for Beginners" booklets haven't been updated for almost eight years now; only the 13th edition was issued at one point since Walthers's acquisition of Life-Like, and not all of their train sets include them. Those booklets are really handy for beginning model railroaders, even more serious hobbyists could find some of those tips useful!
If anything, Walthers is for some reason keeping Life-Like totally separate from their Trainllne series of products (Walthers could at least offer Power-Loc track with their Trainline sets! But then again, that may conflict with the "World's Greatest Hobby: Building Your First Model Railroad" instructional DVD included with their Trainline sets.)

Any comments/opinions?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Did you say KFC kit, I gotta look for that, I worked there as a teen for a couple of years!


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## wiley2012 (Dec 8, 2012)

RUSTY Cuda said:


> Did you say KFC kit, I gotta look for that, I worked there as a teen for a couple of years!


Better than that, right here!










Life-Like first began making that in 1975, fully endorsed by Colonel Sanders himself. I have one on my layout, and is always an attention-grabber! Not a bad price, too.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I was 18 & a co manager when he toured my store ( boss had 7 at the time I think) , he was in the back & quite loudly said, if you can get any work outta those long haired hippy bast--ds up front you might do well!

He was a real sweetheart  if you know what I mean! fond memories, my store was one of the most profitable for his friggen info, less payroll per volume than any other! So There Mr Col. Sir!  Rich.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Life-Like stuff just didn't seem to keep up with the times. Modelers wanted more detail and more realism but LL didn't go with that at least with their trains. I always thought their stuff looked toy like while other lines looked more realistic.
KFC is my all time favorite fried chicken and to this day I consider going to KFC for a dinner a special treat. It ain't cheap either. Did you know that the Colonel didn't make a penny on his chicken until he was past 60 years old? Died a millionaire even though he only enjoyed his fame for about ten years. The idiot that owns the franchise around here only has one store and could do well with at least two more in Bonita, never mind the rest of the two county area. I'd buy the chicken much more often if I didn't have to drive so far to get it. What does a KFC set up cost anyway? Anybody know? Pete


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

I have the impression that Walthers is operating cautiously in an unsure economy and is following the same protocol that worked against Paula D. The last company I worked with built equipment to fill a void left by another manufacturer that closed. They worked very hard not to inherit the name recognition of the defunct company. It's a good way. I imagine Walthers looks at the sales history of each Life-Like area to see where to invest. I have many Life-Like structures that I think were top notch, including the KFC restaurant, but the decals and transfers have faded, discolored or peeled off. I think that may have been an across the board problem as decals age, like yellowing glue, and not a manufacturing flaw. I hope Walthers keep increasing the Life-Lifke products and doesn't eliminate them as inventory dries up. Anyone have a loose decal for the KFC bucket? I'd appreciate a scan. I removed it from the sign until I get something figured out.


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

I think Life Like got caught with some very bad decisions, relative their model trains. The Proto 2000 units had a lot of problems for a high(at the time) price point item. In addition. Their later low end units had drives that were made in Hong Kong. The reliability and fix ability of these units do not compare with the earlier units. That coupled with the complexity of DCC and sound led to their exit. As for Walthers keeping things separate, that is probably market driven. They can keep the Life Like brand at a lower price point than the Walthers brand. 

The real benefit in the purchase is the continued availability of P2K, P1K and Life Like products. If it had not happened, they would likely not be around now.

Larry


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## bombardiermike (Aug 1, 2012)

*it depends...*

After my return to ho scale, my first and only locomotive is the life like santa fe gp38-2, it has one truck for pickup and one for power, which is about as crummy as it gets, plus walthers train line and Bachmann make even cheaper locomotives, so the buyout hopefully means better quality but it probably also means there is one less player in the super low end market


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## sandrobit (Aug 30, 2013)

*I'd like start*

Ciao,
I'm Sandro from Italy, I would like this fantastic hobby so, after you post, I have a question for you. I imagine I need, first of all a train set, but after my visit on life-like and walthers site I don't know what is the best train set for me. Can you help me? 
I think I'll start with HO scale.
Thank you.
PS. Sorry for my bad english.....


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

You would do better pricewise going on eBay. There are any number of items on sale there that would give you a great start on a model railroad. Just pick your scale and buy what looks good to you. Pete


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

Ciao, from Australia, Sandrobit!
In my opinion the lifelike sets are a good starting point, great for beginners or kids, to see if its a good hobby for you. 

BUT if you KNOW you want to go bigger layout, to pull lots of carriages, or to run more than one train at once... well its sort of a waste of money, you know?
I can go into more detail, of my thoughts, if you like 

Cheers!


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## Gordon the big engine (Aug 31, 2013)

I also think that ebay is a good place to look for your model train needs. You could search for "lots", that always gets me some great deals!


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## Gordon the big engine (Aug 31, 2013)

I also think that eBay is a good place for your model train needs. You could search for "lots", that always gets me some great deals, especially if your not interested in any one particular item.


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

If you do not have any trains, then a starter set is the best choice. The Walthers train line sets are a little better quality, but you get less for the same money. The life like sets have more accessories in them. Either will allow you to set up on a table or board in a temporary mode to allow you to get trains running fairly quickly. This will allow you to have first hand interaction without diving in too deep. If you then decide your still excited about the hobby, then you can expand your scope based on where your interest are. 
Either the Trainline or the lifelike sets would be good. If you go further, the cars are most likely the only part that you will use going forward. 
As indicated earlier, I would shop around. The same set may be found on line for a better price.

Larry


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## wiley2012 (Dec 8, 2012)

ggnlars said:


> The life like sets have more accessories in them. Either will allow you to set up on a table or board in a temporary mode to allow you to get trains running fairly quickly. This will allow you to have first hand interaction without diving in too deep. If you then decide your still excited about the hobby, then you can expand your scope based on where your interest are.


Exactly. A beginner could have the makings of a great model railroad with a good Life-Like set to start out. I would recommend sets like the Rolling Rails, Trans-American Express or Freightline U.S.A. for starting out. The latter one is more expensive, but you get a LOT out of it: plenty of track with switches for a neat 49x76" over/under double oval (or other different track configurations if you use your imagination), their coal tipple, railroad crossing and gravel unloader action accessories, a mountain-paper tunnel, trackside shanty building kits, signal bridge kit, small trees, autos, (unpainted) figures, signs and utility poles. Set all that up on a 4x8 sheet of plywood with landscaping and some additional buildings and accessories (if need be) and you are already off to a good start. 
And over time you can get higher-quality locomotives and freight cars, more buildings, maybe even switch to a better track of some sort, and the railroad will get more slick and professional-looking. This is how it was with my current basement layout back in 2010: it started out with their "Freight Runner" train set:








But now it uses Atlas track instead, with blocking control (as it's still a DC layout), and I replaced the X2F couplers with knuckles, got more higher-quality locomotives and accessories, and it has really come a long way since then. I still have the included snap-together station building kit, stock pen, some of the rolling stock, trees, signs and poles on my layout, even the railroad crossing (thanks to the Power-Loc adapter track sections!)


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## jjb727 (Apr 13, 2012)

wiley2012 said:


> It had to be asked, since Life-Like was always one of my favorite railroad companies (probably because my first train set for starting my model railroad in 2000 was from Life-Like!)
> 
> What is your opinion on Walthers buying Life-Like Trains and Racing back in 2005?
> 
> ...


Like you said, it really depends on what they do with it. For me, they really need to update to knuckle couplers on their sets every time, all the time. The horn-hook couplers are ok, but they are very annoying to uncouple unless you have invented some sort of handy way of doing so or made an item that works like an uncoupler. The only good way to uncouple the cars is by taking them off the track but then you'll have to replace them on the track....which makes it annoying and less enjoyable. 

Track
As for the track, i like Power-loc over EZ track because although it features less options of track, my main focus is avoiding having to deal with those pesky rail joiners. Now yeah, you can't make track plans that work for engines that require a curve radius larger than 18" R, but for me, I dont have very many engines that require 22" anyway. 

Engines
They REALLY, REALLY need to stop using those (excuse my language) stupid crap motors that sound like gears grinding themselves out. You also can never go wrong with all power pick-up trucks....all engines have them now-a-days. Updated power packs offering more than just 7 volts of electricity. And also offer Steam engines! Damn! What is it with the obsession of ONLY DIESEL?! Trains started out with Steam engines so I believe steam engines should be featured just as much as diesels are. 

Accessories
I will only say that they need to paint their figures and road signs fully before selling them. I dont wanna waste time having to paint them myself.


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

*Ciao!*



sandrobit said:


> Ciao,
> I'm Sandro from Italy, I would like this fantastic hobby so, after you post, I have a question for you. I imagine I need, first of all a train set, but after my visit on life-like and walthers site I don't know what is the best train set for me. Can you help me?
> I think I'll start with HO scale.
> Thank you.
> PS. Sorry for my bad english.....


Hello Sandro, nice to have you here on the forum. I suggest Life-Like as one potential point, but to tell you the truth, Italy has had it's fair share of great model train makers (Rivarossi and Lima for example). Maybe after you get a set, look around for some second hand models from Italy for yourself. I always had a soft spot for Italian models, but I'm going more towards the trolley car right now. Hope all goes well for you. Have a good time with model railroading- it's always fun.


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

jjb727 said:


> And also offer Steam engines! Damn! What is it with the obsession of ONLY DIESEL?! Trains started out with Steam engines so I believe steam engines should be featured just as much as diesels are.


Everything in life is manufactured to meet a price point. Bicycles, automobiles, computers, furniture, trains, you name it. The trick is to get what you feel is the most value for your dollar. 
Steam locomotives are more expensive to produce than diesels, therefore driving up the price of a starter set intended to entice a potential customer to buy the product. Someone on the fence about the hobby, and wondering if they want to get involved, is not likely to spend a huge pile of cash to find out if they really want to or not. Rather, they'll spend less and if they find they don't like it, well then it's not that big a deal. Unfortunately, they may find they don't like it because of the lower quality equipment typically found in a starter set. 

My recommendation? Get an Athearn set. A little more (again that double edged sword) but you won't be fighting the cheap quality you normally find in a starter set. You also don't get a lot of extras like you might get with one of the sets listed above.... 

The key lies in education. This is where the hobby shop (and the general population, in places like this forum) comes into play as more than just someone to sell me a train set. A dealer who patiently takes the time to explain the differences, weaknesses and strengths of each product can become a great advocate for this hobby. How many of us, when we got our first Tyco train set, were disappointed with the performance? I know I was. I still loved it, but I knew it was somehow inferior to the stuff I was seeing in the magazines. If it wasn't for my unreasonable love of trains, and miniatures in general, I would have dumped this hobby long ago, because of those Tyco trains. 

Ultimately, educating the customer of the advantages to be had with a higher quality product can only lead to the manufacturers supplying a greater number of high quality stuff, at a reasonable price. How? If manufacturer X sees his competitor selling a higher quality product at the same price point as his own, lower quality product, manufacturer X is forced to face going out of business or upgrading his product line. Eventually, everyone offers high quality stuff, and the cycle begins again. Meanwhile, prices rise incrementally, and the potential customer becomes a hobbyist who is wiling to spend more money on his newfound passion, and everybody wins. 

I've gotten to where I won't buy anything "less" than Athearn because you know, once you taste the good life it's awful hard to go back.... And my Kato, Atlas, and Stewart locomotives are making it hard for me to tolerate my old Athearn BB stuff, too. 

My my that was long winded.....


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