# I found it !!!



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have a 282 I got used 61 years ago. For many years now it
has not run right. It runs smooth but at about half speed. I 
lubed it, rewired the tender and it ran exactly the same. That
was a year ago. I even thought about retiring it to shelf queen
status. I posted about it here and was encouraged to keep
trying. New brushes and springs was suggested. It has the
original springs and brushes. They don't look worn out but
maybe oil soaked. About 6 months ago I ordered new springs
and brushes. They arrived and I was excited to try them. I
could not find that 282. I knew it was somewhere here. But I
could not find it. I looked many times for it. This morning I was
looking through my outdoor Christmas lights and guess what I found? Yep, the 282. So, this evening I hope to try the new 
springs and brushes. I will let you know if they help.

I hope I don't have trouble finding the transformer. LOL.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I have a 282 I got used 61 years ago. For many years now it
> has not run right. It runs smooth but at about half speed. I
> lubed it, rewired the tender and it ran exactly the same. That
> was a year ago. I even thought about retiring it to shelf queen
> ...


Oh happy day!!! I remember your post,lol...As long as you have your engine apart to change the brushes and springs, be sure to re-face the armature, and clean out the small slits on the face. Many times good intention people will just clean the armature face, but what it needs is to be RE-FACED. After all those years of running the loco in forward, a small, microscopic groove will develop on the face, and you want to flatted out that groove. After all, who runs a loco 99% of the time in reverse,lol?? What I do to re-face the armature is to chuck it up in my drill press, and spin it at a moderate speed, using 400 grit paper or finer. I then finish it off when 2000 grit wet/dry paper or a bright-boy. Also, clean out the chassis of old grease and oil. You can use a eco-friendly de-greaser, or a good, hot soapy bath, and then blow it all out with compressed air. Let us know how you make out, and if you need any help, please post!!!


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

here's a shot of one of mine..


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for the info. Will 70% alcohol work to clean any old grease. Whats the best way to clean the slits on the armature.
I used a bright boy to shine the armature but maybe I should use a drill and some fine sandpaper. Here is a pic of mine. I am missing the white tube in the smoke stack and missing a grease pan on the bottom. I remember the grease pan but not where it is. Probably got tossed in bottom of a box of cars or track. I got
this loco when I was 5 from an uncle. He was rough on it. He only
had it for 3 years but it has some scuffs and minor chips at like the steps. All done by him.
Mine has a metal tender. It smokes fine. Not sure what the white tube does.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

When I first got it I was not allowed to do much with it. He did let me run the transformer but he set it up and put it away. I remember him using 3 in 1 oil for smoke fluid. It worked. My uncle and dad are gone. My dad didn't solder so we had to send it off whenever a wire to the plug broke. In fact, if you remember my story, last time we got it back from the repair shop right out of the box it was running slow. No side rods seem bent. Will wheels spin after removing armature?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

The 282 came in 3 versions, one had a coal pusher on the plastic tender, one had a sheet metal tender,like your, and one had a plastic tender, like mine.
I have a small spray bottle filled with alcohol that I use. Works just fine.
I use a very fine bladed screwdriver to clean out the slits on the face of the armature. Actually, anything that fits into those slits will work.
A rule of thumb; if the chimney is painted white, it takes the red plastic smokestack. If the smokestack is black, it takes a brass smokestack.
The wheels will spin after removing the armature. Remember, flyer engines use a worm gear, while Lionel uses a gear driven motor. You can turn the wheels on a Lionel with your finger, but not on a Gilbert flyer, you'll have to turn the armature with your finger to make the wheels move..


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

A little update. I did not get to work on the 282 till this morning. I removed the shell completely. Removed the front motor cover, where the brushes go. Removed the armature. I could not believe how easy the wheels would spin, so they are not bound up.
Besides running at about half speed, the motor was running too warm. You could feel the heat on the shell. I am hoping new springs and brushes will fix my problem. I have my doubts. Usually when a motor heats up there is too much drag on it, like old grease
or something. The springs are somewhat distorted from me stretching them some to make sure they had enough tension on the brushes. But they are not nice like the new ones. The brushes look sort of oil soaked. Maybe the electric has too much resistance
getting to armature. And maybe they don't soak oil so I don't know. Something ain't right. Hope it is not the field coil around the motor. I am pretty sure I checked armature
sections with an ohms meter and they were fine. Except for the first 3 years of its life this train has not been run much. I did find the transformer. Its a 12B AF transformer.
I am guessing I left the original transformer plugged in the wall too long and it burned up. Its nowhere to be found at my mom's house. Dad bought this one at a local hobby shop. When I get the 282 back together I will do an update.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I just thought of something. I did not check to see how the driver wheels would spin 
until I had the front wheels assembly removed, so side rods were not hooked to it. 
When I start putting the 282 back together, I will install and hook up the side rods
with the front wheels before I reinstall the armature. I guess binding could be in that area.
I just don't know what that service shop did to my engine. We sent it in to get a plug wire hooked up and when we got it back it ran slower.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

When I do an engine, I test run it at every opportunity, meaning anytime I put something back on, I test run or I move the armature by hand to check for any binding. When you install the linkage, make sure one side is 90 degrees opposite the other. This is called quartering...Also before running, be sure to put ALL the linkage back on, or when you fire it up, it will bind and bend.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Quartering on my 282


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

If you get to the point where you want to throw it against the wall, send it to me, and I'll get it running a little better for you. Just pay the shipping.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for the offer !!! Not there yet, but you never know. Wheels seem to be quartered fine. I did not remove them. Not sure how to do that. I can't see how to oil driver axles. Or clean them.
It looks like the driver housing is a split frame. But no screws on side of frame. Just a
big screw in the middle of frame on the bottom. 2 other screws on the bottom but they
look to be to hold the chugger assembly to frame.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I use a needle oiler to get to the axles. I also use a "bright-boy" to clean the rims. That big slotted thing in the base of the chassis isn't a screw, it's a slot that the end of the grease pan cover goes in. And DON'T remove those wheels, they will have to be re-quartered.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok,I didn't know if the frame came apart. I had heard the wheels are pressed onto axles.
I did not want to take it apart by removing wheels from axle. I have a needle oiler here
somewhere. I use a toothpick sometimes to get oil to things but there is not room even for a toothpick. Hope you don't mind the questions. Anything to do to the chugger while 
I have shell off?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

More brain picking. I just discovered there is not a single thin washer on either end
of the armature stem. This is not the first time I have had the motor apart. I do
remember that the first time I took it apart there was at least one washer (maybe more)
on each end of the armature. I need to fix that. I want to at least put one on each end.
I know you are supposed to have what came on it but I don't remember how many there was. Any ideas where I might find something locally. Maybe my wife was right.
I am an idiot. An auto parts store might have some small thin washers. I don't think this is my problem because of it running slow before I took it apart. That's why I took it apart
to polish the armature and to see if anything else was going on. Hoping when I put it back together it would run right.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

All on my engines, there has been at least 1 washer or shim. They come in different thicknesses.Looking at the underneath, the armature should be even with the field coil.You'll never find these in a auto parts store; they just don't carry them in the small thicknesses you need. That's why I believe they're called shims, to get them even with the field coil.In the picture, you'll notice how the last plate in the armature is nearly even with the last plate in the coil. If you have too many shims in there, when you put on the brush bracket assembly, the armature will bind, and cause slow running(?) or none at all. Again, when I re-assemble an engine, I always check for free wheeling and no binding in every step of the re-assembly.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

The picture above is showing the latest engine I picked up, a 303.. It does have a VERY thin shim in there on the brush bracket side, but you can't see it. What you see is the end of the armature and the oil-light bronze bushing in the brush bracket assembly.Too many shims can result in a slow or no go running condition. Not enough or missing shims will cause a "clunking"sound when the engine is running. Isn't this great fun!!! And people think of these as "toy" trains... Ya, right, TOY!!!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

That all makes sense with the shims. Thank you so much. Might have to get these
from an AF parts house.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> That all makes sense with the shims. Thank you so much. Might have to get these
> from an AF parts house.


Call Jeff Kane at the Train Tender, phone # is 585-229-2050. Part # is PA10766, .005", .40 cents apiece. Jeff is a great guy.. You order your parts, he sends you the parts, same day, and then you pay him when you receive your parts. VERY trusting guy, and a pleasure to work with. AND, there are some things you can buy in bulk, saving you even more.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Ok,I didn't know if the frame came apart. I had heard the wheels are pressed onto axles.
> I did not want to take it apart by removing wheels from axle. I have a needle oiler here
> somewhere. I use a toothpick sometimes to get oil to things but there is not room even for a toothpick. Hope you don't mind the questions. Anything to do to the chugger while
> I have shell off?


What I do is to just check to make sure the hole isn't plugged. I also put a little vaseline or grease around the inside of the chamber or cylinder to make the piston move a little better,and to "seal" the piston to the chamber, much like a set of rings on a auto piston. While you're at it, check for smoke out-put. What I do there is to run alligator clips to the solder lugs on the top plate of the smoke unit, and then to my transformer. Before you add some power, make sure you soak the wick. After I add power, I blow through the piston chamber, and you should see lots of smoke coming out of the top plate smokestack hole.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Great info. Thanks much. I might give Jeff Kane a call. .40 is great. Last night I
pulled up some AF parts places and these shims did not even show up on their
diagrams. So I went to ebay. Only one guy had armature shims for sale. This idiot
wanted 12.99 each plus 5.00 for shipping. Not in this life time. I learned from my
dad that before you toss out something strip it out for screws washers or anything
you might need someday and keep them in a jar. I got one of my jars out and dumped
it out on a table. I found 4 metal very thin washers. Fits the armature shaft like a 
glove and small enough diameter to fit between the brush tubes. They will work. But
at 40 cents each I might give Jeff a call tomorrow. And know I got the right ones. I
feel better now, those missing shims were bothering me. Thanks again.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I also did some reading online on trouble shooting 282s. Seems new brushes and springs
cure a lot of ills. One guy was complaining his 282 was running at half speed, like mine.
His motor was getting too warm. Like mine. So maybe there is hope.
He had stretched his springs like I did. Still run slow. He got new brushes, still run slow.
He got new springs and now it runs like a scared rabbit. Evidently just the right tension
is important with these engines. I have heard this before. I have 5 sets of new springs
and brushes. On ebay. Lot of 10 brushes and springs from this one guy was the best deal. It was like 10 or 12 bucks including shipping. So I have plenty of brushes and springs. If I call Jeff I will get 10 of the shims and put extras in envelope with the brushes.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Great info. Thanks much. I might give Jeff Kane a call. .40 is great. Last night I
> pulled up some AF parts places and these shims did not even show up on their
> diagrams. So I went to ebay. Only one guy had armature shims for sale. This idiot
> wanted 12.99 each plus 5.00 for shipping. Not in this life time. I learned from my
> ...


There's sellers on ebay who think we're stupid or something. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. That's one of the reasons I try to help everyone with advice, part #'s, and repairs.. These engines are so darn stupid easy to fix it seems a shame you have to pay someone a crazy price to fix them. I'm working with someone now who has a 302, and the repair shop said it wasn't worth the effort or money to fix it..HUH??? I told him pay for shipping both ways, with a couple of bucks for parts, and I'll fix it.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I also did some reading online on trouble shooting 282s. Seems new brushes and springs
> cure a lot of ills. One guy was complaining his 282 was running at half speed, like mine.
> His motor was getting too warm. Like mine. So maybe there is hope.
> He had stretched his springs like I did. Still run slow. He got new brushes, still run slow.
> ...


Springs and brushes are soo cheap, and they usually cure all ailments!!! Don't forget to clean out that chassis from all the old grease. That old grease can turn into cement, and really bugger things up. Just be sure to constantly check your work for run-ability and binding at each step.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have run into a big roadblock. I know these things are easy. I have taken motor apart 4 or 5 times in the past. It has always run when put back together. Not this time. I put motor back together and before I went any further I wanted to see how it ran. It don't. Just those windings at top of the field get hot. Armature turns easy with finger. I am not going through tender just power to the brush tubes. Should that work? I even tried DC power.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I plugged tender back in and put power to the tender wheels. Motor does run but
still at half speed. Bummer. New brushes and springs are installed.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I have run into a big roadblock. I know these things are easy. I have taken motor apart 4 or 5 times in the past. It has always run when put back together. Not this time. I put motor back together and before I went any further I wanted to see how it ran. It don't. Just those windings at top of the field get hot. Armature turns easy with finger. I am not going through tender just power to the brush tubes. Should that work? I even tried DC power.


That won't work...In order to make the engine run without the tender, you must do......one wire from the transformer to the first hole in jack panel.... a jumper wire from the second hole to the third hole......finally, wire from the 4th hole to the other terminal on the tranny.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I plugged tender back in and put power to the tender wheels. Motor does run but
> still at half speed. Bummer. New brushes and springs are installed.


Is your tranny putting out the correct voltage for it to run faster?? Check it with a multi-meter.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

When it didn't run I checked the transformer. My meter came in at 19 volts. Should
be plenty. Motor is getting too hot. Just like before. I switched wires to the tender
wheels and moved the lever under tender and it still only runs forward. I wanted to run 
it in reverse to seat new brushes better. Only runs forward. Reverse used to work fine.
If motor wasn't getting so hot I would let it run a bit. A couple times it seemed like it wanted to go faster. could be my imagination.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Wheels turn freely?? Did you clean out the old grease and oil? Armature spins freely?? Is is the correct armature??


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## chrisallen21 (Sep 1, 2016)

mopac said:


> Great info. Thanks much. I might give Jeff Kane a call.


Definitely give Jeff a call. He has been super helpful for two of the orders I have placed. I am new to this as well and wasn't sure of what I needed exactly so both times we used Apple Facetime so we be sure of what we were looking at. Plus, his prices are great. Note that his prices are for cash/cheque. If you want to pay with Paypal or credit card, you will need to add extra to cover the fees. I am from Canada so I just send him a postal money order which works great for him.

Finally, if you do use Apple Faceimte, ask him to give you a virtual tour of his workshop. 8000+ parts and walls full of trains. Awesome indeed. I wish I could visit his workshop in person.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

chrisallen21 said:


> Definitely give Jeff a call. He has been super helpful for two of the orders I have placed. I am new to this as well and wasn't sure of what I needed exactly so both times we used Apple Facetime so we be sure of what we were looking at. Plus, his prices are great. Note that his prices are for cash/cheque. If you want to pay with Paypal or credit card, you will need to add extra to cover the fees. I am from Canada so I just send him a postal money order which works great for him.
> 
> Finally, if you do use Apple Faceimte, ask him to give you a virtual tour of his workshop. 8000+ parts and walls full of trains. Awesome indeed. I wish I could visit his workshop in person.


Jeff is about 25 miles from me, but you can't visit his shop, unfortunately. It's a e-business only..I tried,lol.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

One last thing on your slow runner. MAKE SURE the bronze oil-lite bearing in the brush bracket assembly does not turn!! It should be pressed in and tight!!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I was letting it run some and it seemed like it may have been getting a little faster.
The wheels turn easily. But motor keeps getting hot. I am sure they all run warm but this one gets hot. A wire from the field came loose at the backside of plug. I have to run somewhere this morning. When I get back I will solder wire back on. I am going to let it run and if she burns up she burns up. Everything runs easily so I don't know what is wrong. I am going to hook up wires where I don't have to use tender and see if tender is the problem. About to give up on it again. I thought maybe the new springs would help. But they didn't. May box her up again and try it again some day. It has had this problem for 50 years. Since we got it back from a repair shop. The original brushes were hardly wore down at all. Got a nice blue spark at armature when running. I will work on it today and then done for awhile. Might pick up another 282 someday and start changing parts.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I was letting it run some and it seemed like it may have been getting a little faster.
> The wheels turn easily. But motor keeps getting hot. I am sure they all run warm but this one gets hot. A wire from the field came loose at the backside of plug. I have to run somewhere this morning. When I get back I will solder wire back on. I am going to let it run and if she burns up she burns up. Everything runs easily so I don't know what is wrong. I am going to hook up wires where I don't have to use tender and see if tender is the problem. About to give up on it again. I thought maybe the new springs would help. But they didn't. May box her up again and try it again some day. It has had this problem for 50 years. Since we got it back from a repair shop. The original brushes were hardly wore down at all. Got a nice blue spark at armature when running. I will work on it today and then done for awhile. Might pick up another 282 someday and start changing parts.


Might be the field coil is bad.. Send it up to me, and I'll take a look at it, if you're REALLY getting p+++++ off. Just send the chassis, motor etc., Shipping should be cheap that way.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Well, its not the tender. Runs the same without tender. I am thinking it could be the field coil also. That's what is getting so hot. I don't know how to test it. Lots of 282 on ebay. Non over 50 bucks. Some nice looking ones but being sold as untested by guys that really don't know anything about them. Thanks for offer but I am going to reassemble it to shell
and put it back in storage. I really don't want to spend any money on it. It seems like a field coil would either work or not, but I don't know. Its time to get on with my life. LOL. I have spent enough time on it. Maybe next time I will try a different coil. This thing is not binding anywhere, it has to be something different. I looked up wiring diagram for locomotive and wiring is correct. I am done. Thanks so much for all the help. I do appreciate your help. We tried.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is what I need to get. This just bolts on so if you sell your engine you can
put it back original. I went DCC with my HO and I have 3 or 4 nice DC transformers.

http://goldinhands.com/DC Can Motor.htm


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