# How does Menard's does it with Low Prices?



## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

Hopefully I will get some nicer answers, I got nice ones from most of the guys on the OGR, but for those who know Hot Water, he posted a rude comment. So I returned fire and wrote this...

Hot Water I don't appreciate how rude you are. This is a question that could of been answered more positively, or not answered at all like Thumper from Bambi said "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all." I do not appreciate how you are being rude to myself and other members on this forum, some of us use this forum to get help from others. Now my reason for me saying that is someone needs to stand up to you and those being mean. I don't appreciate being slamed and being disrespected on a highly regarded forum in Model Trains. I have been able to tolerate you since I joined in May but I find it unacceptable to be saying rude comments to someone who hasn't even been on this forum for a year. 

This question was to figure out how Menard's can get customers to keep buying their products and how they can sell them at the price of 4-5 Williams by Bauchmann Boxcars. 

The comment was deleted just a few minutes ago...

So to the main Question: How does Menard's do it with their low prices on their trains? My theory is they have planned for a long time and struck last year after common up with Ideas based off of other companies are making.

Thanks for listening


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

They obviously have found a niche using their buying power with Pacific Rim suppliers to get unbelievably low prices. They apparently make it up in volume and low acquisitions costs. Good for them and good for our hobby. 

As far as snarky replies, you won't get them here. The other place has cornered the market.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

I've never bought anything from them mainly because there are no stores here in Virginia. Once they have a set of boxcars that fit my layout I'll be buying the full set that is for sure as you can't beat the price. Will probably buy some of their buildings too when I do my layout expansion. They must have found really good manufacturing prices somewhere. However they do it I'm certainly happy about it.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

When I lived in the Chicago area, I was very familiar with their stores. They were clean and neat and an excellent box store.


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## Larry Sr. (Sep 7, 2015)

There is no store around me in NE TN either. I have looked seriously at all the military cars and loads to kit bash if nothing else.

However the shipping cost kinda sorta turn me off.

Larry


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've bought a bunch of stuff from Menards, all mail-order. I have twenty-five of the Reading boxcars, they look great behind a Reading TrainMaster. I also picked up a dozen of the new scale 53' flatcars, very nice for the price.

They're not the level of detail of the top shelf Atlas, MTH, or Lionel cars, but they cost about a third of their prices. When they're rolling by on the layout, very few will be able to see the difference. The paint is very sharp on the Menards cars as well, they're a great value.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

Tim, welcome to the MTF. You are a credit to our hobby and it is always nice to see young people take an active interest in O-Gauge trains.

You will notice many folks from another place that now call the MTF their Forum home for reasons similar to what you have shared with us.

Welcome aboard. And remember, we have a *NO SNARKY ZONE*.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

SDIV #701 said:


> Hopefully I will get some nicer answers, I got nice ones from most of the guys on the OGR, but for those who know Hot Water, he posted a rude comment. So I returned fire and wrote this...
> 
> Hot Water I don't appreciate how rude you are. This is a question that could of been answered more positively, or not answered at all like Thumper from Bambi said "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all." I do not appreciate how you are being rude to myself and other members on this forum, some of us use this forum to get help from others. Now my reason for me saying that is someone needs to stand up to you and those being mean. I don't appreciate being slamed and being disrespected on a highly regarded forum in Model Trains. I have been able to tolerate you since I joined in May but I find it unacceptable to be saying rude comments to someone who hasn't even been on this forum for a year.
> 
> ...


Well for one they don't have elaborate packaging and that can certainly reduce cost. 

They don't seem to be investing in new tooling but perhaps using existing designs. 

A lot of their lower priced rolling stock has the trucks riveted instead of using screws to hold the trucks in place which also reduces cost. Some of the military box cars use decals for the numbers on the side of the cars. Early couplers were plastic.

They don't publish a catalog the little ones they include with shipments don't really count. 

They use their standard advertising of the rest of their building materials products to also include the model railroad stuff.

All of this adds up to reduced cost.


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## Ricky Tanner (Sep 19, 2015)

Good to see you over here too! I saw your thread and I think it is an interesting topuc worthy of discussion. HW was way out of line with his rude,snarky remarks. 

To answer your question. Like PTC,they(Mendards)certainly have found a great niche and are providing a sorely needed i.e. affordable product. I understand the Menards trains are made by Golden Wheel in Hong Kong. I wonder of there will be more offerings of rolling stock and possibly locomotives. I have a crazy feeling that we may see some more copies of Williams product offered by Menard's.It will be fun to see. 

Does anybody have any clear photos of the Menards rolling stock? The flatcars with "real" wood floors look close to scale.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

And don't forget their O gauge tubular track products which should be fully introduced shortly, according to Mark the Menards train guy.

As for Hot Water, laidoffsick has said he's a good guy. Unfortunately, he doesn't supply an email address in his OGR profile, so it's impossible to communicate with him privately when disagreeing with the tone of his posts or the accuracy of his factual proclamations --so those are addressed publicly on the forum--just another old, sometimes angry, mostly ignored fella, not restricted with the social boundaries of normal discourse.


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## rboatertoo (Aug 5, 2015)

Catalogs cost a lot of Money. Printing, artwork...... The catalogs could cost $5 or more to make. 
They are use to working with lower margins. Trains are not their only business. When you just sell trains you need at least a 40% markup for rent , employees. For Menards to add a trains to a store doesn't require any additional labor, rent etc..... It's already in place. 

I do believe the owner is very interest in trains. If you look at the video on their page when you search for O gauge, you will see a great layout. Plus the owners dog is in every building. I had asked the Mark the Menards guy who's layout it was, but he didn't say. 

They are doing the basics and using existing molds and suppliers. No tooling costs. Plenty of left over tooling in China.


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## Rich883 (Jul 15, 2015)

I think we would find, as I have shared before it is the multiple mark ups and steps in distribution that drive costs more than manufacturing.

In this case the person selling to the end user (menards) is sourcing direct from the contract manufacturer. Only one mark up plus the original contract manufacturers profit.

If you compare to say Lionel, they source from the contract manufacturer, and mark up, then sell to a distributor who marks up, they sell to a deal who marks up and then sells to the customer. Three mark ups plus the contract manufacturers profit.

Anyone who wants to see manufacturing back in the U.S., start removing steps in distribution, menards, and many major retailers do so with their private label items already.


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## CDNJ (Jun 20, 2015)

I placed my first online order with them a few days ago.
Bought the helicopter army flatcar,Ambulance w/lights and some foliage.
I'm glad they put the Helicopter on flats online.
Wish they had a menards in NJ.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

What they are doing and how they are doing it, it is great for the hobby.

Makes you wonder how much the other guys are making over the cost to produce. Of course, Menards doesn't just sell trains and can make up costs elsewhere.


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## PennsyFan (Sep 22, 2015)

Rock on, Menards!

On a side note, Hot Water has always been a very rude person. I do not care if he works for EMD; it does not give him the right to criticize everything railroad related.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

First of all, no fireworks here SDIV #701. Sorry you had a bad experience with Hot Water on OGR, but I had more than a few rancid replies from him myself: you can turn on the block feature there, so you never see or hear from him again - I did, and it made things so much better while I was still there (but being here is still so much better I am never going back, even for a quick peek. . . ). 

Anyway, I have actually given a good deal thought to the answer to your question, as I marvel at Menard's products and wonder (in a good way) about the company. So, for what it is worth, here is what I think. 

*1) Menards probably accepts a lower profit margin, *because these products pull in/build brand loyalty among potentially first-rank customers for other Menards products. If you think about the demographics of model train enthusiasts, its right at the sweet spot of where Menards wnat to reach. Most model train enthusiasts will have their own home (they need to room for the layout), many will be a bit of do-it-yourselfer, or the right age and family situation, to need a lot of the product Menards sell. So the company justifies these products on the basis they bring in customers. Based on what I see and read - I think this works - in spades. 

*2) The products are incredibly cleverly designed* to be low cost to produce. Menards had some initial problems with quality (trucks, couplers) but they mostly solved them. They pick what they produce carefully, find and license product designs that mean almost no product development cost, and keep things simple - basic but acceptab le quality. 

The cars, die-cast products, and buildings they build are never of top-tier quality, but nearly always of quite-acceptable quality, and very cleverly designed to: a) be easy and cheap to produce, and b) re-use the same parts and such over and over again. I will give two examples:
- In the cabinet factory, the "coal pile" alongside the building is just a piece of styrofoam broken off so, as it always does, the broken edge is rough. It's then painted flat black. Surrounded as it is on its flat unbroken sides by the (cheap to produce) little wooden fence around it, it looks very good - like a coal pile!. Cheap to produce and good looking ==> smart and profitable!

- I my review of the Menards construction trucks on 14" flatcar lat week, I observed how Menards reused the cab of the construction trucks as the body of a large front end loader it offers in its 24-vehicle diecast set (for $59). It is one of the more clever substitution uses of a part I have seen. they also play similar swap-and-re-use parts in other diecast and rolling stock offerings. VEry clever!​*3) Packing* - Menards packaging is noticeably cheaper, but no less effective in protecting the product until it gets to you, than MTH's or Lionel's. This has to save them a noticeable amount on each unit. I recently got some MTH cars and recallt hinking - these has to be a dollar or two of cost at the factory to add all this fancy bow with its window and the layers of internal pull outs, etc. Menards keeps packaging very lean - and cheap!

*4) Shipping.* I recently ordered a set of four flatcars and a power plant. They arrived in good condition by FedEx or UPS or someone. The four flatcar set had never been taken out of its shipping box from the factory. The power plant, neither - both were still in their heavy cardboard box as shipped to Menards. And they were not put into a shipping box! Menards simply strapped the two boxes toggether with heavy plastic tape, slapped a label on them, and shipped them. It worked, and it was as low effort and cost and they possibly could have done!

This is even smarter than it seems at first. Note that Menards sells the 14" flatcars as single-($30) or four-car sets ($100).  Now, they have arranged to receive the cars in four-car set boxes, and know they never have to even open a box to ship that $25-a-car extra good deal to you. But if you order one car only they do, but they earn $5 for opening the box and taking one out (which they ship in its individual box). Notice that they give no discount on sets of two or three. Smart.​
*Every step here goes to the bottom line, *which means they are selling at prices that Lionel and MTH won't even try to match, and that someone like Walter Matuch at RMT probably wishes he could, but can't, because of Menards' final advantage: when they jumped into offering model trains, Menards already had a full-scale infrastructure of back-office support: an organization that oculd contact suppliers, make contracts, and pay for orders, a website that could show products and take orders from customers, a warehouse and shipping department, etc., etc. And Menards on-going business was paying for thatalready. The train department had to cover only the marginal cost of adding its products to the rest - and that would not be much. 

Add this all up, and it is not too surprising that Menards has prices where they are. I just hope that Mr. Menards is giving a good bonus to whoever is running the toy train product line. Whoever that person is, he or she is one smart cookie: I wish they worked for me.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2015)

Your analysis is spot on, Lee. Greta job!!!!


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

First off, I hope my comment isn't viewed as rude, but who cares?! 

Let's just be glad they have decided to participate in our hobby and provide us with quality affordable pieces.


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

Tim,

I saw your post on the other site and yes Hot Water was rude but it amazes me he rarely gets deleted. One reason he is friends with Rich Melvin. I have had run ins with hot water for years and most of the time responses to him got deleted. So my advice ignore him and if you stay there, block him. 

But in the mean time welcome to the greatest place to talk toy trains or any subject.

Lee, you nailed it on Menards, nothing more to say.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

Not attending OGR University anymore, I did not read the thread but can guess what happened.
HW often forgets that he posts a lot on the Traditional 3-rail forum. Not everyone is a scale modeler like he. When I was there, he often would answer questions as if they are scale in origin when they clearly weren't. His way...the right way.

I never blocked him though as I did like hearing about prototypical running and rolling stock when it was relavent to the thread.

The only members I ever blocked were Ted Hikel and Pro Hobby.


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## cjack (Jan 28, 2010)

Lee Willis said:


> First of all, no fireworks here SDIV #701. Sorry you had a bad experience with Hot Water on OGR, but I had more than a few rancid replies from him myself: you can turn on the block feature there, so you never see or hear from him again - I did, and it made things so much better while I was still there (but being here is still so much better I am never going back, even for a quick peek. . . ).
> .


I still go both places, not been here as much. I like the technical issues and maybe need to hang around more to see more.
I do miss you at OGR and enjoyed all your antics and expertise. I don't think I can say that I absolutely know any bad actors there by name, but do remember blocking someone that just made me sorry I read what he said. As far as the publisher and moderators go, I figure it's their money and their site so I try to stay somewhat neutral and get what I enjoy out of it. I think sometimes my time is coming when someone focuses on me, but it hasn't happened yet.
Anyway thanks for being an interesting guy. Good to see you here.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I go both places, and there's still a lot to like about OGR, primarily many of the people. I try to stay away from clashes with the management as much as possible, it's pointless to rail against something I can't change.


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

How true John, but sometimes I can't stand by and knowing something is wrong. I have to speak out. 

Yes it has gotten me in trouble on forums and in my career. You cannot let a wrong to stand. Even if I can't change it they will know my opinion.


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## cjack (Jan 28, 2010)

davidone said:


> How true John, but sometimes I can't stand by and knowing something is wrong. I have to speak out.
> 
> Yes it has gotten me in trouble on forums and in my career. You cannot let a wrong to stand. Even if I can't change it they will know my opinion.


I agree with you completely. How you speak out is sometimes crucial for success. And I'm agreeing that It's harder to correct a wrong from the outside than from the inside. So staying on the inside is almost always the best chance.
I like having two forums. Kind of like having two (or more) choices of train companies. I noticed I like Lionel Legacy and MTH rolling stock, especially their cabooses in a lot of cases. Not either one exclusively, but in general.
So it is with two forums. Right now the OGR stands out in tech, at this time anyway, and this forum has a lack of tense moments.


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## mroe21877 (Sep 10, 2015)

Menards probably has strong cost avoidance procedures in place but they may also just simply be charging less. Being a low cost leader can be a brand identity in itself. I've actually thought about ordering from them for other items now that I have been on there sit for train stuff. It is also possible that the top leadership just likes trains a bunch and wants to just break even. Either way pretty cool

Sent from my STUDIO6_0HD using Tapatalk


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I go both places, and there's still a lot to like about OGR, primarily many of the people. I try to stay away from clashes with the management as much as possible, it's pointless to rail against something I can't change.


I can understand, John, and I suppose it makes sense. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants to participate in both. But I my case I have limited time each day given my job and other obligations, and one forum is all I can really do justice to. Second, I felt really imposed on and used as regards the advertising. It cost a lot and was totally ineffective, near as I could figure, compared to what a little spent on other venues did, and they when they made a big blunder in placing and timing an ad that was critical to me, they acted like it was no big deal. It sort of scuttled a lot of plans I had made. I realized then that my participation in their forum was improving their "product" a lot, and that they acted like they didn't care, so I decided to pull that along with my advertising dollars. I have no regrets, and no rancor toward OGR at all. But there is no denying that MTF has and continues to grow into a very good forum: it's everything I need and all I want.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There's no way I could afford their advertising there, I'm just happy that I have the association with Henning's so I don't have to. 

I'm very happy that the O-scale side of things here has picked up at MTF both in volume and quality! The new arrivals have a lot to do with that, and the old timer's now have a much more interesting to participate in as well. It is a win-win here.


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## Marklx200 (Jun 14, 2015)

Don't know the financials of it all but I do like the fact that it shows up for sale after it's been produced. No pre-orders delays or cancels. Made the mistake of ordering a GP 20 lionchief + in the spring with delivery in June 2015. waited and no loco or info. Found out the date was set back to Dec. 2015. This fall I found out that the date was pushed back till July 2016. I'm a relative new comer to this hobby so I didn't Know about pre-orders and the lack of concern on the part of the manufacturers about delays and cancellations. I had never heard of anything like that before and still have a hard time believing it. If Menards ever makes a locomotive you can bet you would be able to go buy one the day after they announce it. And it won't cost $500. If I'm wrong about any of this I'm sorry and please correct me, I'm not that thin skinned.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

I still visit the other site as a visitor, but no longer participate. I just blocked the person in discussion here. Done. 

I like businesses to make money; however without customers and a good reputation, the revenue will suffer eventually.

Regarding Menards, I need to give them an order and check out their offerings.


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi everyone! 
I have not spent much time on MTF since last winter, lots of other projects have kept me away from the train room more than I would have liked. The changing weather here in north east Ohio has given me a good excuse to get back to my trains. There sure is a lot of new blood here on the MTF! Always fun to read new ideas and perspectives. I hope to spend a lot more time here over the next couple of months.
About Menards, I live within five miles of a Menards, Home Depot, Lowes, and a Busy Beaver!
Home Depot has always been my store of choice, until I started finding trains at Menards! I started shopping at Menards more around Christmas time every year. They didn't have much at first but more than everyone else(who had none!) I started buying Fastrack at half the normal price there. Last year I bought the Hogwarts Express(my only new train set) at a great price. As they get a larger selection of Train items, I find myself there more often, and more of the money that the other home improvement stores would have gotten for everyday items ends up in the Menards cash registers. That is the genius of their marketing. It works for me! 
Randy


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

I lived in Chicago for my first 30 years. Menard's popped up during that time. 

I remember they had a small (in comparison to today) store on the NW side (Harlem Ave.).
I don't think that one is there anymore.
I went in but was not especially impressed, although I still remember it was CLEAN!.

I have since been in Menard's. Bought my mom in Chicago a plastic owl to keep the pigeons away. (Worked for awhile, till they realized it was fake)
I would like Menard's here in AZ. They have a smaller, home-town atmosphere which is very well received here.
Plus, they would make Lowe's and HD work just a bit harder to keep up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd love a Menard's store around here, but so far, no luck.


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

Home Depot used to be my store of choice, but Menards has changed that. I still like HD's tools better, but Menards for everything else. When I was building my current home, HD and Menards were equal distance from me, both very close. But, Menards has a complete lumber yard and HD doesn't even come close. And Menards is much cheaper. Sure HD will usually match Menard's prices, but Menards is always cheaper. 

The train things are just a very nice bonus. I only buy their buildings and die-cast, but as they keep adding new items, who knows?

Art


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

Concerning HW, as most of you know I am a friend of his. I will not try to defend his rudeness to people on the forum. I wish he would improve in that area, but I am not going to hold my breath. 

That being said, he is a great guy. He is a wealth of information about real railroads. He is a lot of fun to run trains with, watch trains, and do anything connected with trains. He isn't always rude, but the forum seems to bring out that in him. I have been around a lot of real railroaders as my mother's family were all railroad people. It is not uncommon for many of them to be strongly opinionated. But they were all real people and fun to be with.

If I let everybody on any forum that irritated me or caused my blood pressure to rise with what they posted, or how they said it, I wouldn't get much good out of the forums. There are some people out there that really know how to push our buttons or get a raise out of us with their behavior and comments. It's not always easy, but I suggest we all try to take a deep breath, remember it's just a hobby, and try to not take the bait when this happens.

Art


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## josef (Jun 20, 2015)

Its makers of "O" products, at an affordable price, innovative products, that will go a long way in keeping "O" scale and Model Railroading as a Hobby for years to come. 
Whenever someone hears me talking outside restaurant, etc. about Model Trains, the first thing almost all ask and say, "how can you guys afford them". Most see the prices in stores, and places like E-Bay and must say no way can I afford getting into this----". But we tell them about Menards, LionChief, Williams, etc. that still produce affordable products.
At the last Train Show, I did over hear a conversation on the VL Big Boy and prices realized. Most everyone said that's a lot of meals or mortgage payments to buy a toy to play with. When these types and high price toys come out, I'm sure most think this is what it now cost for everything. 
When I'm in Illinois, I hear high praise for Menard's and their prices for everything they sell, and they have helpful, knowledgeable people working for them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There's an old saying that he'd do well to heed.

*It's not what you say, but how you say it.*

You can disagree without being insulting or arrogant, it comes across much better. Your message is also much more likely to be received than if you just go for the snotty reply.


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## josef (Jun 20, 2015)

Chugman said:


> Concerning HW, as most of you know I am a friend of his. I will not try to defend his rudeness to people on the forum. I wish he would improve in that area, but I am not going to hold my breath.
> 
> That being said, he is a great guy. He is a wealth of information about real railroads. He is a lot of fun to run trains with, watch trains, and do anything connected with trains. He isn't always rude, but the forum seems to bring out that in him. I have been around a lot of real railroaders as my mother's family were all railroad people. It is not uncommon for many of them to be strongly opinionated. But they were all real people and fun to be with.
> 
> ...


I have to say, I don't accept rudeness, no matter the situation, or how esteem the person is or may be knowledgeable or educated. Once you degrade another with rudeness, it show weakness in the persons being rude. Its hurtful for those that receive the behavior.
I don't surround myself, nor accept friendship from someone that has a problem being polite. I also would never, make an excuse for someone that was rude or impolite.


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## Ricky Tanner (Sep 19, 2015)

We don't have Menards in Arkansas. They are moving closer now as there's one now in SE Missouri in Poplar Bluff. It's a matter of time.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

Thank you for the input. Is is shame that Rich Melvin is buddy, pal, friend for life with HW, I consider it not right that your giving your friend the advantage and the right to degrade other members. I looked on posts he did on the OGR, and he could be a little nicer correcting people.


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## ogaugenut (Dec 27, 2012)

I stopped by a Menards recently and bought a boxcar for $20 off the shelf. Really good for the cost. Great paint job. Looked at the track and was disappointed. The pins seemed to fit too loosely. When I put two pieces together they came apart too easily.

Bill


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

ogaugenut said:


> Looked at the track and was disappointed. The pins seemed to fit too loosely. When I put two pieces together they came apart too easily.
> 
> Bill


You should mention that to them. It appears they're very good about constructive criticism of the product, I think they would probably really listen.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

Ditto on what John said. Their early rolling stock had issues with couplers and trucks which were criticized. Fixes to these problems soon followed from Menards.


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## Peterbogumill (Nov 29, 2015)

*Menards box cars*

I bought 3 box cars from menards and one flat car with a yellow helicopter on it and they all seem to be pretty good. Box cars were 20.00 and helicopter car with wood deck was 40.00 so not cadilac cars but they are fine i think. Thanks pete😎


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