# new to G ... where to start ?



## xtal_1 (Dec 6, 2020)

Hey!

I had HO trains as a kid and through my teens. I still put up a small circle once in a while with my old engines (still have all my engines and rolling stock).

I have been thinking about a G scale to run around the rec room and maybe outside.

So my wife came to me and said how about a train for around the tree ... OK, good excuse to buy a G scale starter set.

Then I started looking ... I am a bit lost!

Brass ...steel ... aluminum track ..... LGB ... Piko ... Lionel ...

I remember having to clean brass track off each time I ran a train ... can't imagine using brass outside here in Vermont. Maybe stainless steel but I imagine that would cost $$$$$$

So where do I begin ????

What should I be looking for and what should I avoid ????

Should I look for a good used train ? New ?

Ebay is full of new and used .... is there a better place to get a "deal" ?

Any advice will be greatly welcome!

Thanks .... Mike


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I got out of G about 5 years ago so some of this may be outdated. G scale is unlike every other scale in model railroading. There is no standard size as in HO which is 1:87. G comes in 1:20, 1:22, 1:29 and 1:32. At one time there was also 1:24 but I never saw that. Most brands are not compatible with each other. Aristocraft went out of business and the owner of USA trains just died so I don't know what the future holds for them. LGB had a good reputation. I had brass track outdoors but it had to be cleaned every time I ran trains because brass oxidizes outdoors so many guys preferred stainless and battery power was becoming very popular. Avoid Bachmann track outdoors. Try searching for G scale forums like Mylargescale, Largescaleonline or Largescalecentral if they still exist. God luck.


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## xtal_1 (Dec 6, 2020)

Gramps said:


> I got out of G about 5 years ago so some of this may be outdated. G scale is unlike every other scale in model railroading. There is no standard size as in HO which is 1:87. G comes in 1:20, 1:22, 1:29 and 1:32. At one time there was also 1:24 but I never saw that. Most brands are not compatible with each other. Aristocraft went out of business and the owner of USA trains just died so I don't know what the future holds for them. LGB had a good reputation. I had brass track outdoors but it had to be cleaned every time I ran trains because brass oxidizes outdoors so many guys preferred stainless and battery power was becoming very popular. Avoid Bachmann track outdoors. Try searching for G scale forums like Mylargescale, Largescaleonline or Largescalecentral if they still exist. God luck.


Thanks!

I am a machinist by trade had have been building a new house for the past 7 years ... finally almost done (though we have been living in it for 4 years now while I finish it). I built it large enough to have a nice sized HO set inside. Since I was a kid, I have wanted an large outdoor set (I have lots of room for one). I just figured this was a good time to start.

At least I feel a bit better .... HO is easy to understand. I just keep reading posts and it seems nothing is compatible. Plus running outdoor trains has an entirely new set of problems.

Mike


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

xtal_1 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I am a machinist by trade had have been building a new house for the past 7 years ... finally almost done (though we have been living in it for 4 years now while I finish it). I built it large enough to have a nice sized HO set inside. Since I was a kid, I have wanted an large outdoor set (I have lots of room for one). I just figured this was a good time to start.
> 
> ...


Here's a weird suggestion from an ignorant (of large scales) N-scale guy. 
Maybe instead of HO-scale indoors, and G-scale outdoors, you might consider "splitting the difference" and using O-scale for both.
O-scale has two main types, three-rail Lionel type AC-powered trains and two-rail, DC-powered trains that are essentially larger versions of the HO-scale trains you're used to. They are big enough to house batteries and radio control receivers, so track cleaning won't be a frequent chore, indoors or out. The same trains could run inside and outside, with a connecting track between passing through a small opening disguised as a tunnel. All of this would require imagination and work, but since you have built your own house, you should be up to it. O-scale ain't cheap, but neither is G-scale.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## xtal_1 (Dec 6, 2020)

traction fan said:


> Here's a weird suggestion from an ignorant (of large scales) N-scale guy.
> Maybe instead of HO-scale indoors, and G-scale outdoors, you might consider "splitting the difference" and using O-scale for both.
> O-scale has two main types, three-rail Lionel type AC-powered trains and two-rail, DC-powered trains that are essentially larger versions of the HO-scale trains you're used to. They are big enough to house batteries and radio control receivers, so track cleaning won't be a frequent chore, indoors or out. The same trains could run inside and outside, with a connecting track between passing through a small opening disguised as a tunnel. All of this would require imagination and work, but since you have built your own house, you should be up to it. O-scale ain't cheap, but neither is G-scale.
> 
> Traction Fan 🙂


Hmmm .... that is an interesting thought.

I avoided O scale just because I didn't like the third rail. I had three friends who had O .. all with the 3rd rail.

I actually am planning a door at least into the workshop and maybe the house. I figure this is the easiest way to store them ... just have them "come inside" after running. This I am 58 and thinking this is the "last" house I will build (my wife says she has heard that before), I left plenty of room for toys ... the house is 2 stories but the ground level is actually the rec room with all the living area upstairs. I have 2400 sq ft of rec room area ... plus I am in the middle of building a 3500 sq ft workshop. I like to "play" ... my wife is in a wheelchair and we needed an elevator if we went with a 2 story home. Two companies quoted us $40K to buy and install one. I built one out of the mast from an old forklift. She uses it each day several times ... total cost $2K

I really was thinking "large" ... thus G scale but I may need to revisit O

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mike


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

Pretty brilliant on the forklift mast conversion!


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Check YouTube for some great outdoor O scale layouts. Most of these seem to be in Great Britain, and use 2 rail O track. 

Peco Streamline is the track I’ve seen them use outdoors in both O and OO (HO). 
I’m thinking of doing an HO outdoor layout because it’s the only way I’ll ever get enough room to run long trains. 
Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress.


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## xtal_1 (Dec 6, 2020)

BigGRacing said:


> Pretty brilliant on the forklift mast conversion!


Thanks ..... Here are a few pictures I took during the first test run. I now have a railing and gate on the top floor (and a real floor/car). I still need to put a door that is interlocked to the lift on the bottom.

Other than price, the nice part is you can't service your own elevator ... the company won't even sell you parts to fix it. 90% of the parts I used are off the shelf stock. Pretty cheap to keep it running.

It worked so well, I might do the same thing in the workshop ... would make it easy to get stuff to the loft/storage area.

Thanks ... Mike


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

My suggestion for everything garden railroad related would be to join this very active Brit forum for information and ideas. 

I belong to this forum for their Swiss section, and they have an entire forum dedicated to Garden railroads as well.

A very friendly, helpful bunch of guys.

RMWeb Garden Railway Forum


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

xtal_1 said:


> Hmmm .... that is an interesting thought.
> 
> I avoided O scale just because I didn't like the third rail. I had three friends who had O .. all with the 3rd rail.
> 
> ...


Mike;

With that big rec room, you could build a layout, along the walls in whichever scale you decide on. The whole center area of the room would still be available for "play." Going around the room means wide curves are possible and the entire length of the mainline will be easily reachable. One more suggestion from a 72 year old. Mount the sections of your layout low enough to operate it from a caster-equipped office type chair. This would also put it at a level where your wife could see and work on it from her chair. 

The next question is going to sound weird , please excuse the intrusive nature of it. I'm the son of a chronic "worry wart" mom, who always seemed to imagine the worse. Anyway the combination of a two story house, and a person in a wheelchair, triggered my own inherited worry wart gene. If the power goes out, does your wife have a way of getting out of either level of the house, without using the elevator? Do you think a battery backup for the elevator motor is a good idea? 

Traction Fan


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## xtal_1 (Dec 6, 2020)

traction fan said:


> Mike;
> 
> With that big rec room, you could build a layout, along the walls in whichever scale you decide on. The whole center area of the room would still be available for "play." Going around the room means wide curves are possible and the entire length of the mainline will be easily reachable. One more suggestion from a 72 year old. Mount the sections of your layout low enough to operate it from a caster-equipped office type chair. This would also put it at a level where your wife could see and work on it from her chair.
> 
> ...


I am actually a fanatic about these type of things ...

Fist, because it is hydraulic, the elevator comes down with or without power. There is a manual override valve that lets opens a valve and lets it down.

Also, I do have a 10 KW backup generator ... which I test every few months. Were are rural ... well all of VT is rural, our largest city is 42,000 . Two years ago we lost power for 5 days. Lucky for me I am on natural gas. With this generator (and it is decent one ... engine has an oil pump and filter) I kept the house warm, water pump and heater going as well as the fridge and elevator.

I do intend on converting the generator to natural gas at some point so I don't even need to keep fuel here.

Also, again at some point in the future, I want to build a back up hydraulic pump. I kept the 24 volt pump out of the forklift. I already have a Tee in the line so I can tie it in with just the flip of a valve.

And I did do things like put a velocity fuse in line .. a flow device with stops or limits the flow if it gets too high ... like a line brakes.

And short of a total mast failure (unlikely as it is rated at 3000 lbs) it is hydraulic so it comes down "relatively" slow.

Perfect, no .... with most people if the house is on fire they can just jump out a window but we do have a large deck and at worst case she could go out there, close the doors and call for help.

She decided after almost 18 years of being confined to only two rooms of a house ... she was 12 when she broke her neck in a diving accident ... we married in 2009 when she was 31 ... she wanted a house where everything was accessible and she had room.

Just FYI ... she needs care every 4 hours, thus she had never traveled. It is hard to bring a hospital bed, lift, and all the "stuff". During the year before we got married (I was still in SC and she in VT) I got an old RV (it was 10 years old ...now 20) ... gutted the interior .. put in two hospital beds on tracks ... build a lift from front to back ... cut a new door and then designed and built a wheelchair lift. Our test run was our honeymoon. Now we travel like gypsies .. stop at truck stops and Walmart parking lots every 4 hours then on the road again. To save money, we lived in it onsite for the first three winters while we built the house.

Anyway, I got way off topic ... sorry ... I will definitely take your advice. 

Thanks .... Mike


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I have seen G scale layouts that guys have built access for the trains to run in and out of the house from the basement.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

xtal_1 said:


> I am actually a fanatic about these type of things ...
> 
> Fist, because it is hydraulic, the elevator comes down with or without power. There is a manual override valve that lets opens a valve and lets it down.
> 
> ...


Mike;

It sounds like you're a bit of a "worry wart" yourself, but in a good, and loving way. You have figured out your own system to keep your wife safe if the house ever does catch fire, or some other emergency comes up.
One further suggestion for your consideration. If the existing hydraulic pump runs on 24 volts DC, then a pair of 12 volt car batteries, wired in series, would run the pump in an emergency. The batteries could be kept charged by having one of those 12 volt trickle chargers, that you use to charge a dead car battery overnight, on each battery. As long as the electricity was on, the chargers would keep the batteries topped off, and if the power did go out, the elevator would still work for quite a while. Maybe this would eliminate the need to build a new pump, but you may have a different reason for doing that. Oh Duh! You said a "backup hydraulic pump" in case the main pump itself fails. Hit me over the head with an idea long enough and even I might get it eventually! I will now but out and let you get on with your own life! 😄

Traction Fan 🙂


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## xtal_1 (Dec 6, 2020)

traction fan said:


> Mike;
> 
> It sounds like you're a bit of a "worry wart" yourself, but in a good, and loving way. You have figured out your own system to keep your wife safe if the house ever does catch fire, or some other emergency comes up.
> One further suggestion for your consideration. If the existing hydraulic pump runs on 24 volts DC, then a pair of 12 volt car batteries, wired in series, would run the pump in an emergency. The batteries could be kept charged by having one of those 12 volt trickle chargers, that you use to charge a dead car battery overnight, on each battery. As long as the electricity was on, the chargers would keep the batteries topped off, and if the power did go out, the elevator would still work for quite a while. Maybe this would eliminate the need to build a new pump, but you may have a different reason for doing that. Oh Duh! You said a "backup hydraulic pump" in case the main pump itself fails. Hit me over the head with an idea long enough and even I might get it eventually! I will now but out and let you get on with your own life! 😄
> ...


I always listen to everyone .... I am not beyond overlooking something. Exactly as you said ... two 12 volt batteries always on trickle charge to keep them topped off. This gives me the 24 volts for my backup pump (the original pump and motor from the forklift).

I am always about maintenance and reliability. I am one of these people who change their oil early rather than late. I have spare parts for almost everything I own laying around. Plus I always overbuild. The elevator will need to lift say 400 - 600 lbs. The forklift was listed at 3000 lbs. The pump is rated fore 3000 psi and all the hoses I bought are rated for 4500 psi (working ... double that burst).

I remember years and years ago, one of my college professors was an engineer who worked for an aircraft company. He said there are two ways to design .... work out every part "exactly" and give them a very low safety factor (he said many parts he disigned had a 1.1 or 1.2 factor only to save weight) or overbuild .... you have the penalty of weight and the expense of extra material but it is usually safer.

Thanks for looking to for me .... Mike


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

xtal_1 said:


> Hmmm .... that is an interesting thought.
> 
> I avoided O scale just because I didn't like the third rail. I had three friends who had O .. all with the 3rd rail.
> 
> ...



Wait ! Your workshop is bigger than my house !.....LOL Reading through some of the replies, I would like to share my own experience with large scale trains.

From the late seventies to 1991, I had Lionel layouts in my tiny cellar. A mix of post-war and MPC. During a visit to Busch Gardens in Virginia, I saw the large scale display and started thinking about getting into the bigger trains. My first purchase was some Aristocraft locos and rolling stock. Initially I built a 5x10 layout where my "O" gauge layout had been. Even sold off most of my Lionel trains to finance my new acquisitions. 

About a year later I started building an outdoor layout. The Aristocraft trains did not particularly like the outdoors. Partly due to continuity issues and to a small degree, the not perfect levelness of the track. I contacted an LGB dealer in my area and bought a Lake George & Boulder Mogul. The difference was night and day over the Aristo trains. 

The garden railway grew steadily over the next twenty years. In 2010 I purchased my first Railboss receiver and transmitter from G Scale Graphics and installed the receiver and battery in a trailing freight car. Over the next ten years I converted all of my locos to battery power. Some on board and some use a trailing car. It was the smartest thing I did. Well, other than marrying my wife of forty-eight years.

Now, in my early seventies, I am building a brand new Lionel post-war type layout in my new attic train room. My garden railway will still exist, albeit not to the detail and operation as it did at one time. 

I hope some of these thoughts will help you which path to take. I have included a sampling of videos of my garden railway. I did not start filming until about eleven years ago.


























https://youtu.be/VMjU2rJFf5A

https://youtu.be/6X1RRW_MlA0

https://youtu.be/UQHcg_dpNr0

https://youtu.be/KsrWRtvMgms

https://youtu.be/EuGAHlzgl_A

https://youtu.be/BKmUe4s-_xw


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

xtal_1 said:


> Thanks ..... Here are a few pictures I took during the first test run. I now have a railing and gate on the top floor (and a real floor/car). I still need to put a door that is interlocked to the lift on the bottom.
> 
> Other than price, the nice part is you can't service your own elevator ... the company won't even sell you parts to fix it. 90% of the parts I used are off the shelf stock. Pretty cheap to keep it running.
> 
> ...



Excellent !


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## xtal_1 (Dec 6, 2020)

Madman said:


> Wait ! Your workshop is bigger than my house !.....LOL Reading through some of the replies, I would like to share my own experience with large scale trains.
> 
> From the late seventies to 1991, I had Lionel layouts in my tiny cellar. A mix of post-war and MPC. During a visit to Busch Gardens in Virginia, I saw the large scale display and started thinking about getting into the bigger trains. My first purchase was some Aristocraft locos and rolling stock. Initially I built a 5x10 layout where my "O" gauge layout had been. Even sold off most of my Lionel trains to finance my new acquisitions.
> 
> ...


WOW ... that is awesome!!!!!!! 

I love the detail of the crane moving the barrels!

I am so glad I posted here. I really did not think battery powered trains were a "real thing" ... I thought they were just for kids toys.

The videos are fantastic ...even my wife enjoyed them!

Thanks for sharing !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

xtal_1 said:


> WOW ... that is awesome!!!!!!!
> 
> I love the detail of the crane moving the barrels!
> 
> ...


Li-on batteries give me four to five hours run time. Take a look at G Scale Graphics website for information on converting to battery power. G-Scale Graphics


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Fantastic layout Madman, thanks for posting.  My outdoor G scale layout was nowhere near what you did.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

Gramps said:


> Fantastic layout Madman, thanks for posting.  My outdoor G scale layout was nowhere near what you did.


Thanks Gramps. Glad you enjoyed watching some of my videos.


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## dcramer (Dec 19, 2018)

xtal_1 said:


> WOW ... that is awesome!!!!!!!
> 
> I love the detail of the crane moving the barrels!
> 
> ...


I personally run battery power indoors converting used LGB engines and love that I do not need to worry about cleaning track or wiring complications. I have three engines: one uses an old Aristocraft Train Engineer, one Railboss from G Scale Graphics and one iPhone Bluetooth based controller.


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