# American Ho compared to British OO



## mdakl (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi
I ve a complete layout most of it from Hornby in OO guage, also iam so intersted in American HO Locos, and thinking now of buying the KATO AC4400 Loco to be the first introduction of American Locos in my layout but i fear of size difference between the two guages, i need an advice from those who already have such a mix to tell me if this mix is odd or its fine, also i would be gratefull if someone can provide photos showing OO & HO diesel locos side by side, that would be more convinceable ,

Regards,


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## EMD_GP9 (Jun 19, 2012)

Hi, Below is a photo of my Hornby Class 37 together with an Athearn F7.
The head-on photo shows the difference in size between a typical 00 model and H0. Length will depend on the loco modelled.
As you can see the sizes are similar because the Hornby loco is to 00 4mm/ ft scale and the prototypically wider and higher F7 is about the same size when made to the H0 3.5mm /ft scale.
It is a little wider but this will only be aproblem with close clearances or platforms ( not a problem where North American stations have no platforms).
Hope this helps, Colin


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

here is a pic of my GP38-2 next to my OO scale HST125


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## mdakl (Jul 25, 2012)

New Berlin RR said:


> here is a pic of my GP38-2 next to my OO scale HST125


Thanks for your photos ,so what i can notice from both photos is that for british HO cpmared to OO,the OO will look bigger but for American HO compared to OO, the American will look bigger, is that true ?
my questions cause yesterday i recieved my first HO item, it is an Electrotren Car Carrier Ho scale,when i put beside my OO locos&coaches i found that it is noticeably smaller in size,


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

I was under the impression that OO was slightly bigger than HO

Edit:
Disregard. I didnt read the question fully. I dont know the difference between American and British HO :lol:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Which one is this, I don't recognize the model?


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## george356 (Jul 19, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Which one is this, I don't recognize the model?
> 
> 
> __
> ...


It is full scale, 1 foot to the foot 

I'll get me coat!! <slinks off>


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

LOL!!! well as for the picture and HO vs OO and the size comment it seems to be accurate as the US trains tend to be larger any ways and the brits (euro) have a nack for packing more into less (as I remember someone mentioning some where) so I would say the sizes are more or less accurate I think...


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

*Keep Calm, it's Only a Truce Amongst Scales...*

The Brits caved to us, and we abandonded the "true track width" of OO scale. The trains work out in some crazy, "timey-wimey" mess!!! I don't want to start a war, I just want to say my peace. Thank you. Heavenly Father bless. -


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

It is my understanding that OO is about 1/76 scale and HO should be 'half O' or 1/96 but we cheated a little and make it 1/87. It only becomes really noticable when two precisely made replicas of the same item are posed side by side. (the model car guys have the same problem with 1/24 vs 1/25)


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

*Let's Put the Scale Fight Straight!!!*

Dano, welcome! It's not that simple; OO is 1/76, HO is 1/87, and I'll just say, unless your one heck of a scale nut... WHO CARES!!! - 

*HO, and "HO running" OO scale* is just a fit between *the Yankees', *and *the Brit's,* who got cheap track from *Fritz* and *Gerry*, because they were fed up with the cost of "true" OO scale, and just wanted to have fun *"Model Railroading,"* and isin't that what it really all about? So don't sweat the details, let's run our empires, play with our pikes, and have fun with our *"MODEL TRAINS!!!"* -


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

OO is a larger scale (1/76 as opposed to 1/87) using the same track guage as HO. In the example photos above, you can see that the British OO model is the same size or slightly larger than the American HO engine, when the European equipment's clearance gauge is actually quite a bit smaller.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

trainguru said:


> Dano, welcome! It's not that simple; OO is 1/76, HO is 1/87, and I'll just say, unless your one heck of a scale nut... WHO CARES!!! -
> 
> *HO, and "HO running" OO scale* is just a fit between *the Yankees', *and *the Brit's,* who got cheap track from *Fritz* and *Gerry*, because they were fed up with the cost of "true" OO scale, and just wanted to have fun *"Model Railroading,"* and isin't that what it really all about? So don't sweat the details, let's run our empires, play with our pikes, and have fun with our *"MODEL TRAINS!!!"* -


I am not fighting, just answering the question posed, and the answer is that the difference of identical equipment in the different scales parked side by side will be noticable, that's all.
ANAL types would be changing the track guages to .744" and .649", nothing short of that would make THEM happy! :laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

*trainguru*, please dial it back a notch. I don't see any fighting here, Dano appears to just be posting facts. Do with them what you will.


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

*Yeish, this was not how I wanted it to sound...*

I didn't mean to point fingers, cause a "*bar brwal,"* or anything, I just wanted to clear scales, and make a funny story, based on the facts about HO and British OO scales. I've been seeing this case before, and frankly, it's like going through the desert for forty years (Moses, where are you right now?)! I say that for all of our sanity, and to keep the peace, let's refer everybody who asks that question, to the countless threads about the differences, to save us some grief.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Again, the question was asked, and answered factually. Let's leave it at that, OK? It that threatens your sanity, not much I can say, the rest of us are doing fine in that Dept.


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Let me try to clarify; it's a big loop. The Point is, we should just refer the askers about it, to the older threads. I'm a little weary now, about being sucked into these threads. I have got to stop being sucked in. 

Now, shifting gears... what do you think about my little story. Humorus? - :laugh: Sad? -  What? -


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

trainguru said:


> what do you think about my little story. Humorus? - :laugh: Sad? -  What? -


:supergay:

I kid, I kid... or do I :sly:


Seems like a good story :thumbsup:
I know nothing about the history of modelrailroading, but anything that makes it more affordable for the masses is good in my books (mostly). 


TBH I think if you didn't Bold, Underline, and Caps Lock parts of it, it would seem less *"ANGRY"* (Not that you intended it to be angry, I hope)


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

Dano said:


> It is my understanding that OO is about 1/76 scale and HO should be 'half O' or 1/96 but we cheated a little and make it 1/87. It only becomes really noticable when two precisely made replicas of the same item are posed side by side. (the model car guys have the same problem with 1/24 vs 1/25)


thats why I stick with the 1/18 sized cars LOL!!! Oh yes I do run both American power and British and German power on my rails....


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

It was just emphsis for the main points, that's all!


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, it is definitely possible to massively overuse emphatic highlighting and punctuation. 

Not every key word needs to bolded, italicized and capitalized. Not every sentence needs to end with an exclamation mark. All of that is the textual equivalent of screaming.


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## ChopperCharles (Jan 3, 2012)

Interesting. I'd like to see photos of the same model locomotive in HO, OO, and S if possible... 1/87 (HO) seems a long way from 1/64 (S), but 1/76 sounds like it should be considerably closer... yet the OO models look so close to HO sizes I couldn't tell from a casual look.

I've always wondered if it would be possible to convert some OO stuff to S... but now it looks like they're way too small. 

Charles.


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

*Difficult to mix, but its possible, as they run on the same track.*

I just came across this discussion, after indulging in a similar discussion on another forum. The discussion became so heated, I had to drop out. However, I will put in my two cents, just for fun, but please do not take it all too seriously. First, OO is 4mm per foot, and HO is 3.5 mm per foot. Hence, all OO models are a bit bigger than HO models, from a scale point of view. As both scales run on the same track, this means that one of them is running on the wrong scale track (OO). So, OO scale steam locomotives don't look quite right, appearing as though they are narrow gauge. The diesel and electric locomotives don't look quite so bad, because the wheels are hidden, but the track still does not look quite right. To fix this there are OO scale rolling stock versions that run on track that is slightly wider in gauge and they look much better. (EM is one of them). If you are a purist its a problem modelling in OO scale on HO track. If you want to run both UK outline prototypes, OO, and US prototypes, HO, nothing will ever look quite right. Its my view that if you want to use RTR rolling stock, the best solution is to build different layouts for each scale. Anyhow, the whole scenery thing is going to be different for the two countries anyway. Stations, platforms, buildings, roads, the whole shebang is going to be quite different, so why try to mix them at all? However, just for fun they all run on the same track, and nobody is going to stop you mixing them!


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## D1566 (Jun 8, 2012)

rgmichel said:


> nobody is going to stop you mixing them!


Glad to hear it!!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

The solution is simple... *"SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE!"* Just say you model 1/82.5 scale. Now all we need is a catchy name for the scale and we're in business! -


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

rgmichel said:


> I just came across this discussion, after indulging in a similar discussion on another forum. The discussion became so heated, I had to drop out. However, I will put in my two cents, just for fun, but please do not take it all too seriously. First, OO is 4mm per foot, and HO is 3.5 mm per foot. Hence, all OO models are a bit bigger than HO models, from a scale point of view. As both scales run on the same track, this means that one of them is running on the wrong scale track (OO). So, OO scale steam locomotives don't look quite right, appearing as though they are narrow gauge. The diesel and electric locomotives don't look quite so bad, because the wheels are hidden, but the track still does not look quite right. To fix this there are OO scale rolling stock versions that run on track that is slightly wider in gauge and they look much better. (EM is one of them). If you are a purist its a problem modelling in OO scale on HO track. If you want to run both UK outline prototypes, OO, and US prototypes, HO, nothing will ever look quite right. Its my view that if you want to use RTR rolling stock, the best solution is to build different layouts for each scale. Anyhow, the whole scenery thing is going to be different for the two countries anyway. Stations, platforms, buildings, roads, the whole shebang is going to be quite different, so why try to mix them at all? However, just for fun they all run on the same track, and nobody is going to stop you mixing them!


There's really nothing to argue with here.

The two scales ARE different. They're not the same size. That is a simple fact; I don't know why this would be controversial.

The question is whether this bothers you. If it doesn't bother you, then go ahead and happily mix them. If it does, then you won't mix them, and the discussion is over.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

trainguru said:


> The solution is simple... *"SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE!"* Just say you model 1/82.5 scale. Now all we need is a catchy name for the scale and we're in business! -


But then NOTHING is accurately scaled. 

At least if you're modeling 1/87 or 1/76 at least half of your stuff is sized correctly.


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

*An operating system switch*



cv_acr said:


> There's really nothing to argue with here.
> 
> The two scales ARE different. They're not the same size. That is a simple fact; I don't know why this would be controversial.


Now don't take this to heart, please, its all in fun!  Well, on that other forum, I postulated the idea that the OO scale could be ditched in favor of HO, so that the scale of the rolling stock would match the track gauge. I used a parallel with Apple Inc., which managed to switch large numbers of people from one operating system to another, a couple of times. With an interim period of 5 years, I suggested that such a scale switch might be possible. However, people with a vested interest in their present OO collection don't like this idea. Hence, controversial. I think the thought that OO is not properly to scale, and rather idiosyncratic, is not terribly popular. Nevertheless, due to the excellent quality of UK OO RTR rolling stock these days, I have a large collection, so I am considering a multilevel layout with the two scales separated. That way, I can model US outline HO and Uk outline OO, with a third level for Thomas the tank engine and his friends. Ambitious, but I can't reconcile the idea of a US HO Big Boy sitting on the same layout, or even in the same scenery, as a UK OO streamlined A4. The increase in size of the OO scale makes the Big Boy look quite strange, almost like a ... toy. As far as I can tell, despite the nature of OO, following generations of modellers are sort of stuck with it. Again, please be light hearted about this.  Of course you can run HO models and OO models together, its all in fun, but it can't be said they look right, unless you like the look.


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## ChopperCharles (Jan 3, 2012)

I would prefer if everything were in OO honestly. I like the larger models, don't care if they're not prototypical. But then, I also like On30 too, so I'm a bit of an outlier.

Charles.


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## rgmichel (May 25, 2012)

*OO enthusiasts are pretty unanimous*



ChopperCharles said:


> I would prefer if everything were in OO honestly. I like the larger models, don't care if they're not prototypical. But then, I also like On30 too, so I'm a bit of an outlier.


Actually, I am not sure you are an outlier. My feeling is that OO enthusiasts will never give up on OO and convert to something that is scale in track as well as outline. Its just too difficult to do, unless there is real leadership form the manufacturers. No small manufacturer is going to just start making uk outline HO, or EM, etc., so the only way is to have one of the big players do it. Apple did it moving operating systems. However, I have made these arguments before, and I still bear the marks. Its not going to happen


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

*Thanks for the vote of confidence...*



cv_acr said:


> But then NOTHING is accurately scaled.
> 
> At least if you're modeling 1/87 or 1/76 at least half of your stuff is sized correctly.


That's the point! -  - The fun lies in the uniting of railroading styles, and if you think that's impracticle, tell that to all of us who grew up on Thomas the Tank Engine, and then got a might let down by American Railroading! -  - Understand that this debate is pointless, as "true" OO Scale, does exsist, but it's not in common a practice as the availibility of HO scale track (cheaper from the Germans). I'll model 1/82.5, you guys do whatever... just one thing though... help me come up with a catchy name for the new scale? -  & :laugh:


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

simple, scales are different, nuff said, don't care who you are or what you do they are still different...I run both HO and OO so I should know this very well, granted its not often a OO engine is going to pull a HO set of cars but they can and will....


as for why people would get heated over the discussion...heck if I know and heck if I care...

could always call it .OO or HO.5 or something....


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

Here is my take Us Americans believe bigger is better so then since HO is just a bit bigger than OO tell ppl that bigger is better


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

britblad said:


> Here is my take Us Americans believe bigger is better so then since HO is just a bit bigger than OO tell ppl that bigger is better


Actually you have that backwards.

HO scale is ~ 1:87
OO scale is ~ 1:76

HO is a greater reduction in size. If you actually built true-scale models of the same thing in HO and OO, the HO version would be smaller.

Real North American railroad equipment is much larger than British equipment, which is built to far more restricted clearances. So the OO (larger scale) models of (in reality smaller) British equipment ends up being very similar in size to HO (smaller scale) models of (larger) American equipment.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

yea i guess i dint think of that i have a 4-8-4 sitting next to the tornado and the 4-8-4 is bigger so i wasnt thinking about the scale just physical size lol


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## andersley (Oct 24, 2010)

As a Brit. I used to model OO but changed to US HO, then Swiss HO, Belgian HO, US N, etc. Also ran British O (different scale to the rest of the world again)! 
Fact is that it is way too late to change from OO to HO for UK models.
I now live in Slovenia, deep in European HO territory and model this country's railways, I like electric locomotives so am happy with this. 
Although British models are very good quality now, in spite of the narrow gauge look when viewed head on.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SII using Tapatalk 2


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