# Trains are the best layout



## thysell

Hi All,

I'm getting back into model trains after many many years. I have two grandsons that really enjoy trains. I need an HO layout with two separate runs that they can use. I've tried to look at as may layouts as possible. Thanks for sharing. We will be running 1940-1960 style freight trains. 

We have a 6x12 foot blank canvas to work with. It's a table suspended in the garage.

HO Layout using DCC
All grades are less than 3%.
The smallest radius is 18 inches. 
I need ideas how to place industries and/or towns and possibly a more advanced yard for me.

Could you look at my first pass at a layout and make suggestions.
No worries I have a thick skin so if I've done something stupid be sure to tell me.
How do I insert figures so you can see them directly?

Thanks

Pete


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## spoil9

This is just my opinion here...

I really like the design. I think you can do a lot with it in terms of scenery and running trains. The only thing I personally don't like is the cross in the middle. I don't see the point of it, and it adds complexity in wiring. If you want something to turn locos around, you could replace this cross section with a turn table.









Again, just my opinion. You need to do what makes you happy though.


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## RT_Coker

I have a 6.6’ x 13.3’ layout that I had visions of suspending. It is nearly finished and weighs a lot more what I thought it would even though it is built on hollow core doors and uses foam! It is amazing how all those “little” weights add up.

You may want to use some form of removable legs to save your limited vertical space for other things.
Bob


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## thysell

*The purpose of the cross track*

Hi Spoil9,

The purpose of the cross track is to allow two directional travel on the two loops and provide a way for the trains to change directions without the big hand from the sky!

My layout is really just this but coiled up to save space.

Thanks 

Pete


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## thysell

*Removable Legs*

Thanks RT Coker That's a good idea. I left what you see so I could bolt on 4 foot extension legs. But you are right it means I give up that much room on the top of the table.


Pete


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## Big Ed

I don't understand your title.

Trains are the best layout? 

What other kind of layout can you build? 

Maybe a car layout?
Are there boat layouts?
Plane layouts?

Well I guess you can say trains are the best layouts.


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## Big Ed

Your picture question.

If your using the paper clip method after you upload your pictures go back to where your typing your post and click the paper clip a second time and click insert all, they will be showing, instead of us having to click on it to see it.


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## thysell

Hi Big Ed

My wife thinks that a new kitchen layout would be good! 

What is the paper clip method and how do I know if I'm using it?

Thanks

Pete


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## Big Ed

thysell said:


> Hi Big Ed
> 
> My wife thinks that a new kitchen layout would be good!
> 
> What is the paper clip method and how do I know if I'm using it?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Pete


Tell her that a train layout wouldn't work in the kitchen, maybe the living room.
We do have a member where his whole (big) O scale layout takes up the whole living room.

We have another member who built their new house so that the upper walls have holes built in for their ceiling layout to run throughout the house.:smilie_daumenpos:
(I just walk around measuring my ceilings and I get a don't even think about it.)

We have another member who built his in a fairly large bar put a glass top on it and has N scale running.

We have others who built it in a large suitcase.

One in a briefcase too I think. :laugh:

OH the paper clip way, 

A copy and paste,

I am adding this here so I don't have to retype it every time someone asks.
Some do it different, this is what I do and never have a problem. 
I tried to make the instructions as simple as it is.


What I do to post a picture,
1,When your typing your thread, look up top & click on the paper clip.

2,That opens a box then click browse.

3,That will open another box find your picture where ever it is in your computer. (say downloads,camera,files wherever your picture is.)
When you find the picture click on it then click open, it will then be in your box where you clicked browse.

4, Then click upload, wait to make sure it uploads.

5, After it uploads go back to your post box where you are typing and click the paper clip again and click insert attachments.

Your picture should be in the thread.


Note, if the picture won't upload most likely it is too big.


If that doesn't help read through this help thread,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2595


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## Big Ed

If you don't see the paper clip in the box where you are typing, go to your user CP.
Then click edit options
Way at the bottom the last thing you see is this,

Message Editor Interface
When posting messages to the forums or other members, there are three interface types available to you. The simplest of these is a simple text box, while the last is a fully-fledged WYSIWYG editor, which allows you to format your text as you want it and see the results immediately.

Depending upon the capabilities of your web browser, you may not be able to use all of these options. If you experience problems when posting messages, try switching to a different interface type.

Change it to enhanced interface from the drop out box. That is the WYSIWYG editor.
You might be in the basic, you won't see the paper clip in the basic editor.


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## thysell

*Test paper clip method*

Thanks Big Ed. You're the man.

Pete


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## DonR

Hi Thyself

I really like the layout as you have it, especially the kids will
enjoy that crossing in the middle...oh the near misses. 
Lots of train running operations, but only limited switching.
Still a lot of action in a small area. 

The elevations do make it difficult to add much in the way of
more spurs, that and the way geometry limits curves.

I guess you realize you have a complex reverse loop in that
crossing created left center circle track that will require a DCC reverse
loop controller and about 4 places to gap the rails to isolate it. But
it could be fun. Trains running in opposite directions on the same
track...only possible with DCC. 

Not enuf of an engineer to comment on the suspension idea.

Don


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## thysell

Hi Don,

Yes I will need the auto reverser. Just need to isolate the cross track and every thing between the switches I think. The center section is pretty stable but I'm trying to figure out how to add a small yard. Also plan on adding some curves to the long straights. I figure I better not make all of the tracks parallel to the edges. Wife says I need more tunnels for the grand kids. 

Table lift will support 360 pounds for sure and I tried to over engineer it for more. Tonight was great as I actually lowered the table and started drawing the layout to scale. Also glued some foam down for the mountains. I used wood glue but I think I need to try contact cement as it will dry much faster.

Pete


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## DonR

Pete

The track geometry gets tricky...but you may be able to put a
turnout between the 2 reverse loop turnouts in the upper part of
the inner track and lead to the right over a crossing.

It would be very similar to the other yard in that area with
the turnout in lower of the inner track.

Yes, your isolation idea is what I was thinking. Gap after every
one of those 4 turnouts that form the dual reverse loops. Have
to guard against 2 trains approaching the gaps at the same time also.

When lowered, is the layout supported by legs for stability?

Don


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## thysell

*Slightly modified Double Loop*

Hi Don,

I'm not sure how I can get a yard in the smaller loop. The inner circle is an 18 inch radius. Yes the table has 14 inch legs on it for my grandsons and I can bolt on 4 foot legs for me. Here is a slightly modified version. Added some more tunnels and created a ravine for some bridges. I had to redesign the reverse loops using switches and cross tracks I can actually get. Maybe you can show me a picture of what you mean for the second yard.

Thanks

Pete


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## DonR

Pete

I must have had a senior moment when I suggested that you may be
able to start an additional yard from between the upper 2 turnouts that
are part of your reverse loops. When I see the color graphic it becomes
obvious that is a no go. Looked possible on the track line drawing.

Maybe someone can see a way to squeeze in additional yard tracks
but it looks pretty tight to me.

Don


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## spoil9

Get rid of the cross in the center and you can expand your current yard.


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## cole226

pete,
what if, on this near side where u modified the passing siding u put in yard ladders on each end. that whole wide area for yard?


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## cole226

or as spoil suggests. out with the reverse loop, in with turntable. expand central yard.

:dunno:here i am looking at yours and mine is torn half apart


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## Southern

Keep the loops in the middle. i got o lot of enjoyment out of mine. revering is great.


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## spoil9

cole226 said:


> pete,
> what if, on this near side where u modified the passing siding u put in yard ladders on each end. that whole wide area for yard?


Didn't see this earlier, but you could include a good 3 maybe 4 track yard in that area depending on what era you're going with and how much room you need for track side structures.


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## cole226

spoil9 said:


> Didn't see this earlier, but you could include a good 3 maybe 4 track yard in that area depending on what era you're going with and how much room you need for track side structures.


put the yard out front, all mechanics easy to get to. lots of room in middle for stuctures

i wish i had a spot like that for my yard


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## thysell

*Construction Begins*

Hi All,

Finally got to do some real works. Had my helpers too. I'm going to keep the cross and create a yard on the front of the table. I tried to leave some space for it. I think the reversing loops will be fun. Not sure how I'll control the switches. I think I'll use manual throws in the yard. The ones by Caboose Industries look interesting. I'm sure my grand sons will like them. Any ideas for the switches in the middle of the layout?

Thanks

Pete


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## cole226

pete,
if u get a rainy day in the garage, and constuction gets shut down,:laugh: i'd like to see a computer gen of what ur coming up with.
i see a lot of potential for real nice layout here.
also, what era are u modeling; turn of century, modern?

ps; looks like u really got the little guys interest.


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## thysell

Hi Randy,

We will be modeling freight trans from the 1940s to the 1960s. But mostly we will be running trains. One in each direction with the ability to switch directions. Here is the layout unwrapped.

Pete










I didn't have a long space to implement it so I wrapped into a couple circles. There is plenty of room at the bottom to implement some sort of yard. Nothing is fixed in stone about the yard. Mountains and tunnels at each end of the table with a couple of small communities.


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## cole226

neat, u and the boys enjoy


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## thysell

*Added Small Yard*

Hi All,

I've been fooling around with possible yards. 
Here is one that I think has some possibilities.
Let me know what you think.

Thanks 
Pete


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## thysell

*Got Some Roadbed Down*

This is fun stuff!


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## cole226

pete,
looks like your getting it figured out.:thumbsup:

i would get some track down so u can run trains. start landscaping some of the permanent areas. leave yard area till last, you may come up with other ideas of what u want here as u run trains.
it looks good!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## DonR

It's looking good. I sure do like that crossing in the middle. Somehow
busy crossings seem to add excitement to operating. Nice yard with
an always helpful runaround.

Don


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## spoil9

Any updates?


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## D&J Railroad

Have you tried to raise it to the ceiling lately?


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## thysell

*Made Some Progress*

Hi All,

I finally had some time to lay some rails! Great learning experience. Caulking works much better at holding cork roadbed than spray contact cement. Take your time and make sure rail joints are smooth. Elevation changes must be gradual or couplers will hit stuff. 18" radius curves are really tight. I can't believe that I had 15" radius curves as a kid. But most of all flex track should not always be forced to follow your paper plan. Just put it on the table and shape it until it feels right. Micro Engineering flex track is really nice to work with as it holds its shape pretty well. Oh yeah, if you can afford them the Peco turnouts are really sweet. I used two as they fit the way I needed them too. The rest of the turnouts are some used ones I picked up.

I read most of these tips in the forum but sometimes you just have to burn your own fingers. Thanks for all of your help.

Pete


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## thysell

*Table still raises with ease*

Hi Ken,

I raise and lower the table as necessary without much trouble. I moved the garage door stop a bit to so that the table legs can hang down without the door hitting them when open. One of these days I will modify the hand crank so that I can just stick it into my electric drill to power the table up and down. Nice thing about being able to raise the table is that wiring will be much easier to do. 

Pete


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## markgrecco

How do you find it with a 6 foot wide table for working on the middle? I read that you should try to keep the reaching distance to 2 foot and under. Myself I ignored this when I read it  My table is U shaped but the 2 ends are made up of 6'x8' tables with a 4'x8' joining them together. I actually got up on the table at times to glue down the roadbed so now I'm a little concerned how easy it's going to be to work on once scenery is done. Even though scenery will be the last thing to do I still need to consider future maintenance.

Mark


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## thysell

Hi Mark,

Yeah I'm climbing all over the place to get to the middle. That's why there is a piece of plywood on the right side of the table. I knew this going in though. I think I may put a mountain range in the middle to divide the two sides of the table. I'll add scenery to it and then try not to touch it after that. I'm still debating whether or not to put a hole in the middle of the table. It could eat up a lot of space though.

Pete


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## RT_Coker

thysell said:


> I'm still debating whether or not to put a hole in the middle of the table. It could eat up a lot of space though.


Pete,
Also consider a hole with a removable mountain top or other scene.
Bob


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## cole226

pete,

I made pop-ups in the middle of my tables using 2" rigid foam insulation. 2 layers glued together with construction adheasive. top overlapping original tabletop, bottom piece fit down in your cut out sitting more or less like a door closing in jambs. could get away 1" foam
weighs no more than what ever your scenery you put on it is.


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## DonR

I'm a big fan of Peco turnouts. Locos and cars just glide thru them
at all times. A Couple of things to keep in mind about them. I use
Insulfrog. They are power routing. So you may have to add drops
to tracks leaving each turnout else they'll go dead when the turnout
is set against them.

If any locos or cars have wide wheels they may short where the
rails come together where split by a thin bit of insulation. Solution: A tiny
drop of clear nail polish at that point. Others have suggested an insulator in both
of those rails where they join the layout.

If you have Peco Electrofrog, the suggestion is also to insulate
the 2 rails from adjoining tracks. 

Don


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## thysell

*Test Fit Girder Bridge*

Bob, Randy,

You guys may have the right idea. I'm thinking that I might use a small mountain range through the middle to separate the layout into two areas. I could then cover an opening with a removable mountain. I figure I don't need to solve the problem yet. I'm trying to get enough track down so my grandsons can both run their trains. They have been real good about testing sections of track with a DC supply and engines.

Don,

I plan to use DCC and will add many drops and already have an auto reverser to handle the cross section.

Here is the latest where I'm test fitting a Micro Engineering girder bridge.

Pete


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## DonR

Try the pics again. Not displaying as is.

Don


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## thysell

*Pictures not displaying*

Hi Don,

Are you sure. I can see the pictures from a couple of different computers.

Pete


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## thysell

*Possible Yard Review*

Hi All,

I've been fooling around for a possible yard. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Thanks

Pete


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## DonR

Like your yard design. Has what you need, a couple of run arounds,
a nice long track for train building and plenty of yard track to store lots of cars.

Does need a loco service area unless you plan that at another spot.

Don


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## thysell

Hi Don,

What makes up a loco service area? Do you have some example you could point me too?

Thanks

Pete


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## cole226

*loco service*

pete,

depends some on era modeled.
coaling tower, diesel fueling. ash pit, service pit, sanding tower, water tower, water spout, washing facility, offices, machine shops, sand drying shed, etc.

here's couple examples
A








B











if you don't service, you have this


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## thysell

Hi Randy,

I'm loosely doing freight trains from 1940s - 1950s in the west. I've got a few RS-1 engines that can handle the 18 in radius turns in my layout. Mostly I needed two long runs for my grandsons to run their trains! Thanks for the examples. Now how to sneak one in.

Pete


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## cole226

pete,
i like ur design better everytime u post.
i bet the grand boys are having a ball!:thumbsup:


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## thysell

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the kind words. Grandsons want to know when the second loop (light blue) will be operational. I've got the inner loop (purple) working but only one train running at a time. I made some adjustments to my yard and added an area (dark green) to service the locomotives. I think a turntable will have to wait awhile. Perhaps off the yellow yard!

Pete


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## DonR

Looks just right for your loco service area. Since you're doing diesels you'd
want a diesel fuel supply tank, Hose stand between the tracks, Sand tower
between the tracks and beside the track, possibly at the end, a sand supply.
Both the fuel and the sand provide 'reasons' for cars to be switched there.

Here's a early pic of my loco service area. The sand tower and the
sand 'pit' are scratch built. The diesel fuel tank and buildings store bought.

Don


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## cole226

*service area*

here is a pic of a steam service area by a modeler. his stuff is REALLY NICE

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/Vulcan click to check vulcans works
check out terrels store. the man is an artist


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## thysell

Hi Don,

Thanks for the example of your loco service areal. It's really neat. I think I may need to shift things around a bit so I can get the sand and fuel areas in. I'll probably try to get second loop and DCC working so both my grandsons can run trains. I can incorporate the necessary switches to the yard and then do the yard as time permits.

Thanks for your help.

Pete


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## thysell

Hi Randy,

The steam loco service area is impressive. My wife likes steam better than diesel and even has her own 2-6-0. It's short enough to survive the 18" turns. 

Pete


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## DonR

Pete

Building those little scenic bits like the sand service are what you do to catch your
breath between major project builds. I'm not that good at
it but do enjoy just leaning back and fiddling with this and
that that I can use to make something.

That 0 gauge steam service are is breathtakingly beautiful.

Don


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## thysell

*Got a little done over the holidays*

Hi All,

I had some time to work on the layout over the holidays. I added a small yard and experimented hacking up some foam to make some tunnel portals. Looks like I need to improve my ballasting too. Having lots of fun. Put together two steam locomotives with some old time passenger cars. I gave these to my grandsons for Christmas. They were so excited nothing else mattered. Have a look.

Thanks for all your help.

Pete


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## cole226

pete.

layout looks good. thats just what i had in mind when u were planning earlier.:smilie_daumenpos:

that;s how i would have done it if it was mine.

i'll bet the boys are excited.:appl:


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## cole226

i was going to give your thread a bump the other day to see how things were coming together
glad to have u keep us updated


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## thysell

*Other side of the table*

Thought I would share what's going on beneath the table. Need to add power drops from the main yard and to create a control panel for the switches.

Pete


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## flyboy34

How much were your elevation changes on the layout?

Anxiously waiting for new updates.


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## thysell

Haven't been able to do much on the layout. Reworked the track for the turn around as it kept causing problems. It should be dry by tomorrow. Spread a bit more ballast. My better half wanted to make sure the table was clean and managed to vacuum up sections that weren't dry. No problem as I need more practice anyway. My grandsons are having a great time and want to know when we are going to build some tunnels. 

flyboy34 the highest track in my layout is less than 4 inches. I have two really long runs but even still I have about 2 1/2 % grades. The 2-8-2 steamers can pull 11 or 12 40 foot box cars before the wheels start to slip. The RS1 diesels can do better.


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## thysell

Hi All,

After looking at how everyone was making control panels I gave it a shot. I just attached the layout figure to a piece of plastic using spray contact cement. I drilled through the paper and plastic with only minor problems. I did tiny pilot holes first then the final size. The switch machines I'm using need 3V so rather than using resistors every where I found a cheap 3V wall wart. It made all the wiring really easy and even worked with the LEDs. 

My grandsons want tunnels so I started mocking up this one. 

Thanks for sharing all your great ideas.


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## Fire21

That's a beautiful track plan you have there!! Nice panel too.


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## nearboston

Might I ask what material you used for the Portal and retaining walls?


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## thysell

Everything is made of rigid pink foam insulation with a coat of brown or grey paint.
The texture on the front of the portals is done with the teeth of a cross cut saw.
I just dragged the saw across the foam a couple of times.
The interior of the tunnel is roughed up using a dry wall rasp. 

I hope to do better but my grandsons really like tunnels so its a trade off!

I've got between 3 and 5 inches of foam on the table so that I can add dig out rivers or cliffs as desired.

I've added some more turnouts that I rescued from some old stuff stored in the attic. 
The control panel will have to be modified to support them.

This thing will never be done! Man life is good.


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## nearboston

Ingenious. I thought is was some kind of plaster coating.


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## thysell

*Layout update*

My grandsons have been very patient with grandpa. But they finally decided that we needed to improve the layout. We started simple. I had them add trackside bushes. Then we needed a road to the town they had created. My daughter-in-law showed us how things could look and we hope to get more help from her. Finally we are getting serious about finishing our tunnels. Enjoy the pictures.

The road











Track side bushes












How things could look



















Getting serious about tunnels


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## thysell

Did a lot of negotiating and talked the CEO out of the spare bedroom. Salvaged all the track from this layout. Only damaged a couple of pieces of track. If you use caulk to secure track go lightly. The track I destroyed had a lot of caulk holding it down. Listed the table on Craig's List and it ended up going to a 10 year old boy and his dad. They were just getting into model rail roading. Glad they came by to get the table. CEO wanted it gone and was getting the chain saw out!


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