# Lionel 1122 switch problem



## jimtv2003 (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm reviving an 027 Lionel train set originally bought in approx. 1960.

I only have one item I can't seem to get working.

It's the 1122 control switch. It has no back on the controller and the middle wire from the solenoid coil isn't connected to anything. Does anyone know what the proper wiring should be? I can't be certain that what I'm looking at is the original soldering points and I can't seem to find a wiring diagram for the internals of the track section. My other 1122 works fine.

The 1122 that works has the back-plate and it appears to be used as a contact for many internal parts (both of the outside rails). Does anyone have a photo, drawing, schematic etc. of the underside of the 1122 with the back-plate removed?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The back plate is just a cover and is not electrically connected to anything except the top plate which is connected to the outside rails.

A few years ago, I wrote something about how to repair the 1122 switches. I think it is posted on this forum.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If you have trains the greenburg book is a must. It has all the diagram s and part #s . It also shows you where to oil


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Why don't you look at your good switch?

The last post in the richmaond thread has Bruce's explanation. He expalins the differences of two switches. Gee he didn't mention oil either. Too bad. Good information.Tag search 1122 to find it.

The center wire is center rail fed. WIth three terminal posts. The obivious ground is on the left? Depending how you look it. So ground out the other two to operate the switch. The other two are also connected to isolated exterior rails for auto switching.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

There should be 2 wires from the center of the coils joined together. They get soldered to the bus that connects to the center curved rail. The other ends of the coils get connected to the 2 terminal posts farthest from the switch machine.
The bottom plate connects all the internal grounds together, for the coils and rails. If you do not have the bottom plate, you may need to solder jumper wires from the ground terminal post to the rails that have tabs on them that get bent over when assembling the bottom plate.

Larry


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## jimtv2003 (Jan 25, 2013)

*1122 switch problem*

I don't want to remove the bottom plate of the working switch because I would have to grind and drill out some connections and probably screw it up. I did use brass wire to connect all the tabs on the "bad" unit that correspond to the grounded tabs. All these points contact the terminal point which is the ground of the motor. The light didn't activate so I ran a wire from the underside clip (Light center post) to the V shaped center post contact point. The light now works.
Strangely, the center terminal is riveted to an outside rail and the outside solenoid wire is soldered to this metal strip. The third terminal is riveted and goes to the other outside rail and has the other outside solenoid wire soldered to it.
Notice I didn't mention anything about the center rail...it just sits there..
That still leaves the center solenoid wire not connected.
In a desperate move, I connected the center solenoid wire to the v shaped center plate.
BAD MOVE a flash, a melted (combined center solenoid wire ) where I connected it and a slight odor.
Where does the center rail connect to the setup?
The good switch shows the terminal power as 12V when connected to the center or outside terminal posts. As expected, 0V when the center and outside terminals are tested.
This tells me the something is wired backwards on the BAD switch they're all showing 0V.
I've ordered the Greenburg and Big Book of Lionel but they could take up to a month to arrive.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OK there are many rivets.

The ground post was missing on this switch so I drilled out two more. One was on the coil frame and the othe was attached to the frog on the switch. This rivet was long and stayed in place after the botoom was removed , So I peened and left it.

Center if two coils get soldered to the copper bar. The ends go to the isp;ated track sections and terminals/










Ground, common goes next to the coils. This case it is right.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

You wired the light incorrectly. You do not need any jumper wire for the light to work. Disconnect the controller if you have it hooked up. The lamp AND the coils get their power from the metal bus that connects to the curved center rail. The 2 center wires from the coil get soldered to the metal bus connecting the curved center rail. The outside wires from the coils are connected properly, although you deem it "Strange...". This is the only connection you need to make to get the switch to work properly. Once you have the switch wired properly, connect one transformer wire to one center rail, and the other transformer wire to the ground post of the switch...the one nearest the switch solenoid. The lamp should light. Now jump the center binding post to the ground post, and the switch should throw, depending on its' initial position. Then jump the outside binding post to the ground post, and the switch should throw in the opposite direction.
Again, you only need to make 1 connection to get the switch to operate properly. You are getting 0 volts on the terminals because the coils are NOT getting power. Disconnect your jumper from the lamp, solder the coil wires to the center rail bus, and your done.
Your flash and meltdown occurred because of the jumper you added to the lamp. You shorted out the coils through the bulb when you (properly) touched the wires to the center rail bus. 

Larry


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## jimtv2003 (Jan 25, 2013)

*control switch problem resolved*

I'd like to thank all of you for your input.

After many tries and no success I removed the solenoid and did an ohm check. One side was bad. If I decide to tackle this switch in the future (with a replacement solenoid) I will still have to resolve the wiring issue because the one side of the solenoid should have worked if the wiring were correct.
*T-Man*, I very much appreciate your photo of the underside of the switch.
My switch doesn't have the metal plate that your combined wires are soldered to. That is a problem. Would it be possible for you to post another photo displaying the whole back of the switch. I may have other things not where they should be.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is an 1122E with a non derailing feature. Yours still may be diffferent. With this older stuff you just can't get by with just enough you need spares.If you had a rusty junk one it would be apart and you would be on to something else by now. These are usually trouble free so getting these pictures does help us out. I never needed them before. Youu need a paper insulator too!!!!! Cut some construction paper to fit so that center wire doesn't ground out. The bar is for the lamp socket, you don't need it, just solder to the vee ( frog). You can install a separate wire and install a socket later.

Used, these are very inexpensive. Some work better than others, with extras you can pick and chooose.











Not much there.


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## jimtv2003 (Jan 25, 2013)

*1122 switch problem*

Thanks T-Man
A picture is worth a thousand words.
It looks like the copper wire I added between the "Frog and Light bulb was a correct move. When I connected the two center wires from the solenoid to that same copper wire, it was also a good move. The short that ensued was (I suspect) the cause of the short. I like the looks of the 1122 and hope I can come across some more of them as "Junk" and make a few of them work again. I do notice a lot of them are missing the little turning signal piece.
Once again, I'm in your debt. I'm archiving this photo.


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

This thread is manna from heaven for me! I just purchased four 1122E switches on eBay and they all need work. The wiring advice and the pictures of the open bottom are a godsend! I do have one issue I could use some advice on. Two of my switches appear to be warped. They rock when placed in their normal operating position. I haven't taken them apart yet. Is it more likely to be the plastic upper portion or the metal cover that is the problem? Can it be corrected?


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I probably have 20 1122 switches. Most are the 1122E. Some are from my childhood, some train shows and some from E Bay.

None of them are warped. 

My guess is the metal backing is warped. If they melted from a loco stalling on them, the plastic would be melted.

In spite of what others say, I like them.

When I plan out a trip, I put my loco in neutral, crank up the 1033 to full power and flip the switches to make the trip. 

Sure, from time to time something jumps the track. Sometimes on the 1122, sometimes elsewhere. 

Its a toy.

Have fun


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## jimtv2003 (Jan 25, 2013)

*Warped Switcher*

I agree, I had to straighten the metal base in more than one unit. If the plastic were the problem, I would expect some cracks in the plastic. If a previous owner re-attached the bottom plate, they may have used screws which didn't go through the base and is causing a wobble.
Jim


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you open up the switches, solder all the crimp connections. The plastic cold flows and the crimp connections become loose. Work quickly because the soldering iron will melt the plastic.

I posted a thread on this forum about repairing these switches. You might find it helpful


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## upsman55 (Jan 11, 2013)

I've opened up two of the 1122's so far. Wasn't extremely difficult. But I found that I had to be a bit careful drilling the riveted part of the frog. You can easily put a larger hole than you want in the metal bottom. Found a disconnected coil wire on the copper bus bar on one. And found that it was the metal plate that is warped/bent on another. 4-40 pan head screws work nicely in place of the rivets. And I can probably use a longer one to replace the binding post if I want to. (haven't made my mind up about that yet!) I'm getting there!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

When you replace the ground post with a 4-40 screw, you will not be able to screw the thumb screw onto it. The thumb screw and almost all of Lionel's #4 screws are 4-36 which is an obsolete standard as of WWII. You can still buy 4-36 screws on the Internet, and Jeff at Train Tender may also have some.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Put some oil or WD-40 on the drill bit and it will make a better hole. Ditto if you are tapping the hole.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Train Tender has the 4-36 screws, I got some in a couple of lengths for when I run across missing ones.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I bought a lifetime supply at Skycraft in Winter Park, Florida. They had them cheap. Only one length: 3/8.


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