# Manufacturers Mark



## Scottg (Jul 25, 2018)

Just starting to dip my feet in the hobby and I am either completely missing something or the hobby is missing it. I am having difficulty discerning manufacturers identification on rolling stock. 

I am trying to buy used models or old kits off eBay that say they are from a certain maker and could be in the box or not. I want to look at different makers now or from the past that others on this forum felt were of average or better quality. However, with no markings I feel like I am the sucker for getting what could be a toy. 

I do read on here that manufacturers often get absorbed by other companies along with their moulds. I also understand hobbyists may prefer prototype undercarriages and not a big ‘Atlas’ stamp. However I just find it confusing to not be able to verify something sitting right in front of you.

Trying to research a manufacturer’s past products seems arduous and that I deserve a special medal if I find it. Like if I have a boxcar in front of me with a certain railway logo and #12345 as the car number, I have almost no way of knowing if say Walthers ever made it outside of blind luck. Even the seller seams to be confused as to the make yet clearly has enough knowledge to make sure you know they put good couplers on.

There seams to a lot of sites listing every loco in a real railroad’s fleet along with listings or purchasable books of rolling stock inventory. Does any site or booexist that compiles similar info on model manufacturers? Or is there a simple reason pieces are not marked much?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have nearly 100 HO cars. It's very rare to find a
manufacturers mark on any of them. 

There are clues that some use to determine make but,
in general, who made it is not that meaningful.

You select a car because of it 'look', how much detailing
is on it, whether it has Kadee or one of the other
coupler makes, and the quality of it's trucks and wheels,
metal preferred.

There are other clues that say this is a cheap toy like
car but they are obvious to the average buyer. But
even those can be 'dressed up' and with weathering
can fit right in any mixed freight.

Don


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

I don't see any manufacturers identification on a lot of o gauge items


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## Scottg (Jul 25, 2018)

So perhaps it’s best to do my comparisons at a upcoming train show. I want to compare older and mid-level production runs and not pay $30 per car just starting out. That was not going to happen at the two local train shops where they are so squeezed for space there is not much hope in visually comparing rolling stock

Even today I got burned on eBay. They show a picture of a kit yet to be built and shows the cover as a Roundhouse box car. The description says ‘wrong box I think its a Walthers’. Get the package and it’s in a Athearn Blue Box, assembled and weathered. Contacted the buyer and his answer is that he did mention it was the wrong box. Sigh.

So what car did I get? No idea.

I live in Maryland and Baltimore does a large train show every 3 months. Next one is 5 weeks away. Best to walk away from EBay till I get more educated on how to tell cars apart by visual alone.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I would get ahold of eBay and file a complaint.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Once you have been the hobby for a while, you get to know what car is made by what manufacturer......hard to explain it, but experience will come.....


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Scott

A train show is an excellent bazaar for model train
cars.

Many of the vendors own hobby shops, others are
brokers who buy trains from estate sales. So you
will see prices all over the spectrum.

You'll find some new cars in boxes, but the majority
of the displays are used. The vendors usually sort their
wares by quality and thus price. That will give you
the opportunity to compare the better cars with those
less expensive.

Generally, the used cars will go for 4 and 5 $ each
and the better ones equipped with knuckle couplers and
metal wheels will be offered around 10.00.

Be aware that you can negotiate. Ask for a discount
if you buy several cars. It's not unusual to get a car
free with the purchase of 4 or more.

Don't buy from the first vendor you see, make the
rounds and note where you saw the better cars.

Be sure to look under the tables. There are hundreds
more cars in those trays and they are for sale.

When checking cars, look for brake wheels, and check
to see that all four corner 'steps' are there. Some
box car doors slide open, most do not.

Bring cash. Very few vendors take credit cards or checks.

If you expect to shop for a loco bring a 9 volt battery.
It will give you power for testing. Most shows, however,
have an all scale test track set up for locos.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with Don, with two exceptions: 

I don't think most vendors sort their stock as he suggested. I most often find an haphazard collection of boxes and you have to sort through it to find what you need (that's actually sound retail strategy: shoppers who know what they want and where to find it buy only what they came for; shoppers who have to search a bit often make impulse buys).

I also find that at bigger shows, with good logistic support, more and more vendors can take plastic. Cellular based apps to accept credit cards are also becoming very common. Good retailers know that accepting cards increases sales, often substantially, so more and more are figuring out how to do it. I've also never had trouble writing a personal check at a show.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

flyboy2610 said:


> I would get ahold of eBay and file a complaint.


On what grounds?

The seller clearly stated in was in the wrong (not original) box, and said he "thought" it might be a Walthers; clearly wasn't fully knowledgeable about what he had.

Edit: unless the picture of what was inside the box clearly didn't match what was received - I assume there was some sort of photo of the contents and not just the box?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

DonR said:


> Bring cash. Very few vendors take credit cards or checks


My experience at train shows, at least up here in Canada, is that it's about 50/50 between venders that except only cash, and vendors that accept debit and credit cards.....

The shop I help out at train shows has a wireless machine for cards.....works great.....and clearly helps our sales volume.....


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Scottg said:


> Even today I got burned on eBay. They show a picture of a kit yet to be built and shows the cover as a Roundhouse box car. The description says ‘wrong box I think its a Walthers’. Get the package and it’s in a Athearn Blue Box, assembled and weathered. Contacted the buyer and his answer is that he did mention it was the wrong box. Sigh.
> 
> So what car did I get? No idea


I'd be willing to bet that if you could post some decent pics here, someone could identify the maker.....


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Old_Hobo said:


> My experience at train shows, at least up here in Canada, is that it's about 50/50 between venders that except only cash, and vendors that accept debit and credit cards.....
> 
> The shop I help out at train shows has a wireless machine for cards.....works great.....and clearly helps our sales volume.....


The store and distributor vendors will usually have the equipment to process cards.

A lot of these shows have a lot of miscellaneous and individual sellers getting rid of surplus secondhand stuff, and there's absolutely none of these that will take any sort of card for payment.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

flyboy2610 said:


> I would get ahold of eBay and file a complaint.





cv_acr said:


> On what grounds?
> 
> The seller clearly stated in was in the wrong (not original) box, and said he "thought" it might be a Walthers; clearly wasn't fully knowledgeable about what he had.
> 
> Edit: unless the picture of what was inside the box clearly didn't match what was received - I assume there was some sort of photo of the contents and not just the box?



They show a picture of *a kit yet to be built* and shows the cover as a Roundhouse box car. The description says ‘wrong box I think its a Walthers’. Get the package and it’s in a Athearn Blue Box, *assembled and weathered*. 

He bought a _kit_, he was sent an _assembled and weathered car_. Clearly a case of not sending what was purchased.


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## Scottg (Jul 25, 2018)

Sorry for the screenshot. The phone won’t let me save photoes from ebay. Never knew that before. The first is the image of the item I intended to buy. The second is what came and I propped it in the same fashion. 

I get it. It’s the wrong box but the description leads you to believe it’s possibly a Walthers in a Roundhouse box. Seller claims he meant that it is not the box he is sending me. It’s a cheap lesson where others get burnt on a much bigger purchase than some box car. The numbers are hard to make out but now I can see that the kit is NOT car #27962.

From the description: “ WESTERN MARYLAND 40' RED BOX CAR #27962 WITH KNUCKLE COUPLERS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION. COULD BE WALTHERS. HAS EXTRA DETAIL. WRONG BOX.”

My conversation was I would think makers would take pride in their own moulds. The put money and energy into getting the details customers want while balancing it with what technology allows them to do at their target market value. Why wouldn’t they want to take ownership of labor with a simple stamp hidden somewhere. 

But after all the feedback it seems the buyers have an eye for what meets their own standards. Many others make the stock meet their standard by putting additional energy into it. 

Definitely going to wait until the show next month in Baltimore. Take the kid around, enjoy the displays and take it one step at a time. 

Oh someone mentioned taking photos of the box car. The last few pics are of the car. I am happy with the detail and I will take time to learn to either enhance the weathering or redo it all together. I was just looking for a kit to enjoy putting together.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The assembled car is an Athearn 40' boxcar with a few custom added grab rails......nothing special....about a $5.00 car.....

The unassembled kit car is a Roundhouse 40' boxcar....looks like the box is the original one for that car....

Notice the road numbers are different on the 2 cars.....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

cv_acr said:


> The store and distributor vendors will usually have the equipment to process cards.
> 
> A lot of these shows have a lot of miscellaneous and individual sellers getting rid of surplus secondhand stuff, and there's absolutely none of these that will take any sort of card for payment.


If it's a one-time vendor, just looking yo unload some stuff, that may be true, but this is changing. There are several apps that work on a smartphone, and they will send you a small device that hooks into the earphone jack to scan cards.


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