# Who or What is the Mid America 3 Railers-Another Must Read



## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

Some of you may have seen their logo as part of a members’ signature line on the OGR Forum. Also, some of you may still use it. Anyone who has seen it or used it should find this to be of interest.

Up until a few days ago, my signature line on the OGR Forum included this logo. That changed abruptly when a new MTF member received a rather snarly e-mail from an OGR employee/moderator. Here in part is what was included in what I will call a tirade:

*“I have deleted the MidAmerica 3-railer logo from your OGR signature as I have a couple of other's logos. I have no place for folks that have an agenda in my group. In addition, I ask that you please do not contact me in the future.”*

Well isn’t that a rather unique approach on how to win friends and influence people. It appears that some on the other side of the street have lost the ability to be “real friendly”. And then, to use tools provided by the employer to carry out some kind of a personal vendetta. How do you like that one? After reading this quote, it raised my curiosity to see if I too was included in this unilateral action. Sure enough, my signature line was tampered with and this logo was removed without my knowledge or CONSENT.

I am not one to sit on the sidelines and, let’s say figuratively, have mud thrown in my face without taking action. So I immediately sent off the following text to the three owners of OGR claiming *“Abuse”*:

“I noticed today that a signature I used in my OGR Forum profile has been deleted without my knowledge or consent. It was the logo of the Mid America 3 Railers. Perhaps you have a court order that has instructed you to perform this action, but without such an order, this action is inappropriate and has obviously caused me great harm.

I am in possession of correspondence sent by one of your employees to another Forum member in which the following statement was made:

“I have deleted the MidAmerica 3-Railers logo from your OGR signature as I have a couple of other's logos. I have no place for folks that have an agenda in my group.”

The above quotation would appear to be the basis for this arbitrary and unprofessional action. It is never a good situation when an employee is allowed to use tools provided by the employer to carry out an action that has nothing to do with the Corporation, unless of course the Mid America 3 Railers is one of your Corporate affiliates. I doubt this to be the case.

I consider this to be a very significant problem.”

Normally, in a professional organization, you would expect an expeditious answer to a client, employee, or in this case, a Forum member’s complaint. So, do you think I got one? Nope, not a single word from any of the three. Certainly not the first time for this lack of a response from them. That tells me how much they really care about certain Forum members. Allowing any employee to carry out their perceived form of punishment for participation in the MTF, this has to be an all-time first.

The more I thought about this, the more questions it raised as to just who are the Mid America 3 Railers.I bet that a lot of folks who use this logo in their signature line on the OGR Forum don’t know very much about just what it represents either. The more I examined this subject, the more it raised confusion as to whom or what they really are. *Perhaps someone can shed light on the following:*

1.	When I joined or since then, I was never given a listing of the Officers of this Group/Club. To this day, an officer roster has never been provided to me nor have I ever received a notification of an election of officers.* Do they actually have any Officers?*
2.	When I joined or since then, I was never provided with a copy of the Group/Club’s Bylaws, nor do I know if they exist. *Do they have Bylaws that most clubs have to guide and rule their activities?*
3.	When I joined or since then, I was never given a schedule of their Group/Club meetings, nor do I know if they have had any. *Do they actually have meetings?* 
4.	When I joined or since then, I was not told what State this Group/Club is registered. *Are they registered with any State?*
5.	When I joined or since then, I was never told if this Group/Club is incorporated. *Are they incorporated?*
6.	When I joined or since then, I was never told if this Group/club has any kind of liability insurance to protect it’s members or to meet a requirement of an event sponsor.* Do they have an insurance policy?*
7.	When I joined or since then, I was never told if the name Mid America 3 Railers or the logo is trademarked. There is no “TM” indicted in the Group/Club’s logo.* Is their name or logo trademarked?*
8.	When I joined or since then, I have never received a dues notice nor have I paid any. *Does this Group/Club have dues associated with it’s activities?*

Aren’t these some very interesting questions as to the viability of this Group/Club? 

But wait, maybe the answer can be found right in front of us. Take a good look at this quote again:

*“I have deleted the MidAmerica 3-railer logo from your OGR signature as I have a couple of other's logos. I have no place for folks that have an agenda in my group.”*

Then concentrate on the last three words: *“in my group”* Is this a meaningful clue? From the sounds of this, could it possibly be a one-man show that recruits followers/members? If the individual who says *“my group”* likes you, apparently you are in as I was never given any membership requirements. But if he doesn’t like you or your actions, apparently you’re out. That’s a rather unusual procedure for any meaningful Group/Club.

So what do the members of the MTF think about all of this? How to you feel about any moderator using the tools provided by their employer to hand out their form of personal punishment? What do you think about the owners of the OGR Forum refusing to answer correspondence regarding a formal complaint? How do you feel about belonging to a Group/Club described above? Do you think that members of both the MTF & OGR Forums will now feel* intimidated* to post here for fear of a similar action by an employee/ moderator? It will be interesting to read your comments.

And remember, *you just can’t make this stuff up*. For those who have wondered why so many are crossing the street, this may give you a better idea as to just why.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, I've given up trying to figure out what is going on there and just put it all behind me. It was frustrating enough when I was there and life is soooooooooooooooo much better now that I just don't have them anymore. I doubt you will get any satsifaction trying to explain what happened, why, and how. However, I will note that usually when I see someone accuse others of having an agenda, it just means they have one and they don't think you will support it. 

I've had the impression from several sources (wasn't there a CTT or other magazine article about them some years back?) and a couple of people I have met, that the Mid-American Three-Railers were a pretty good group. I don't know much about the organization, if they are trademarked or organized, etc., and I know some clubs can get really too-self involved and a-grandizing for their own good, but they always struck me as a good group made up of stand-up people.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You could just register as a member, it appears to be free, and then see if they have a member list.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

Knowing some of the folks personally who include the Mid America 3 Railers logo in their OGR signature line, I would completely agree that they are indeed really stand-up people.* That's not the issue here.*

Their rank and file had absolutely nothing to do with the recent circumstances listed above. I brought no focus on them in my post. The focus is right where it belongs.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

All good questions that should be answered.


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

Wow. All I can say is I will not be intimidated for my personal choices and postings. I would really like to see someone try to sue me for my personal postings. Not gonna happen. Sounds like paranoia to me.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm now a little confused PCC, what group do you think he represents?


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

I remember when this group formed and the solicitation went out to several OGR members for membership. At that time, it was headed by Alan Arnold.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

So why would he be removing their taglines? That doesn't make a lot of sense.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

This is very confusing to me. When I first read PTC's original post, I thought the reference in the quote to "my group" referred to OGR forum members.

It was only later, when I checked AA's signature when posting as "leavingtracks" on OGR, that I realized that "my group" referenced (most likely, at least to me) MA3R.

So, yes, I agree it is very disturbing that an OGR moderator/employee would use his OGR website authority to alter individual signatures on OGR forum for personal reasons.


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

*Don't Stand In Front Of The Fan*

Brian,
So, I guess that the folks in New Jersey and San Diego will have their logos removed as well. I wonder what's going on. All the other members still have theirs.

LEE, I AGREE WITH YOU!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm just sick about thinking of or hearing about the OGR forum. Not doubt they have other flap with other people over other things. I couldn't figure them out when I was there and certainly don't think I can do so now. .


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## mikew (Jun 19, 2015)

Interesting..................take a deep breath and move on I think!! It would be funny however if someone had a T shirt or similar wi the logo on and happened to be wearing it in their avatar picture.........wonder what would happen ten!! LOL

MIKE


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes, it's time to move on.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Very Strange behavior. I agree. Take a deep breath and move on. It's not worth the increase in blood pressure.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

On that note...we need to get "Sam" aka "SouthernRR" to jump ship as well.
He seems like a good guy.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

I'm "southernrr" and have already made my move.


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

*PTC....Think About Who's Winning Now*

Brian,
Don't dwell on it. You're the winner here, they are the losers. Granted my nasty letter was nowhere near as long. The sender is just trying to get under your skin. So far, it looks like he's doing just that, my friend. Just consider the source......a loser.

Pretty soon all of the ones who matter will come over to this side. Just take a look at who's here now.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

I had a recent run in with AA, too, and frankly I am not impressed with his professionalism. To say the least.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

southernrr said:


> I'm "southernrr" and have already made my move.


c.sam?
aka SouthernRR?
You look different!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

Vince, Sam Hopkins' handle is CSam. And yes, he would be a perfect addition to this Forum. He fits all of the requirements, a perfect gentleman, smart, good photographer, and a genuinely nice guy.

We have become good friends over the years.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Dam, if those are the requirements im toast


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

But SJM, you are a "hobo for life".


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Vince, Sam Hopkins' handle is CSam. And yes, he would be a perfect addition to this Forum. He fits all of the requirements, a perfect gentleman, smart, good photographer, and a genuinely nice guy.
> 
> We have become good friends over the years.


PTC,
Brian, send him a email. He may pass on the welcome.

I wish I could see all at York. Just to see the look on a few faces especially.(the old thumb on the nose!)
Since SJM's a Hobo for life I'll settle for being a Bum? It's better than a horses rosette.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2015)

Hobo for life sounds good here, too!


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2015)

PTC, did you ever hear from the OGR owners concerning your email on why your profile was altered?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2015)

No Gene, I did not get a reply of any kind.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2015)

Sad, but on the other hand, not surprised.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I wonder how long the approval process takes to join "Mid America 3 Railers"? I thought I would check it out, and see if there was anything worthwhile to read, or find something of interest. Is 27 hours too long to wait for their approval. Then again, I added my location as East Coast, and maybe they don't like either coast. Makes you wonder!!!


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

I, also, have applied for membership and not been approved as of 10 minutes ago.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Sounds to me like it is just an Elitist group, that all want to show off their layouts, and nothing more. I just wanted to see if it would possibly be an interesting site, and see what they have to offer. If it's just for users to show off their layouts, and gloat over each others layouts, then it's not for me.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

Me either Teledoc, I was just harassing them!


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

*How About This?*



ftauss said:


> I had a recent run in with AA, too, and frankly I am not impressed with his professionalism. To say the least.


You were not impressed with his professionalism? His last communication to me proved one thing. The man does not know what professionalism is all about. His total lack of professionalism impressed me. So much so that I emailed him telling him that I was going to post it in all sections of the forum. The more that I think about I'm going to pass. Why put myself on his level......a loser?

Now, I post every now and again just to irritate him. (sjm9911 You are so very correct. Yes Sireeeee!)


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The best thing about living in America is choice! You guys used yours, don't dwell on "over there" , easier said then done I know. Life is to short to waste on small people with visions of grandeur, so live it up , run those trains and don't let them throw you off track


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

Good reminder, sjm... thanks


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I prefer to never say anything negative about anything or anyone. However I like to give objective advice when I know something relevant based on personal experience. 

There are many good clubs out there that are not the least bit "elitist," very inclusive, and that want new members. I'd recommend searching for and finding one of those. This is not a club I recommend. I suggest finding a club that is local, visiting it and making sure you like the type of modeling and operating they do - maybe make a decision after visiting several clubs. Like people, m model railroading clubs have different personalities and skills. But I'd make a decision mostly based on people you meet and already know and trust. 

Whether a club is "elitist" probably depends mostly on whether you are in it or not, but I love a phrase I read several years ago, I think on CTT's forum, where someone complained about "the self-appointed royalty of the model train hobby." He was referring to another club, and how their members would swagger around York like "they were in charge of the rules," but Mid America is one of two or three I thought acted, at least to the extent I saw, like they fit that term. 

I have had a good deal of interaction with two of the people associated with that club over the past few years. No doubt they have friends and family members who love them and people they do business with who respect them, but I'm not among those people, both are involved in running a model train forum and publication I no longer support and nearly all of my interactions with them over the past five years left me frustrated and feeling used. There are probably some really good people in that club, but these are the only two I have interacted with. As other observe, they are not responsive to new member inquiries. So I suggest looking for a local club that has people you feel comfortable with and a type of modeling and operating you want, that wants new members and doesn't have an agenda you can't support. You might post in the General Discussion section on this forum with a question about clubs in your area, or look in the ads int he back of CTT, etc., for Events in your area; a lot of clubs hold open houses where they love to talk to prospective new members!


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Well said Lee


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## cchancey (Aug 27, 2015)

When I joined this forum a few weeks ago and posted why I had joined which were my honest and truthful reasons, I received a message on Facebbook from AA telling me that he was a member of this forum, watching it, and had seen my post and was "surprised". This is a partial quote of his message: "...you have left with a handful of folks that recently left the forum for similar reasons...some of them fit the description you have made to a tee. If you knew the whole story as to their departure rather than what is being fed to you, than I think you would judge the situation perhaps in a different vein. As you know OGR does not allow others to berate another forum...or individuals. It happens sometimes and unless we know about it, we can't do anything. That is what the alert button is for but I guess that some would rather just blame OGR and its crew than try to help with problems when they arise. Bottom line. Don't you think it is somewhat two faced for anyone to take advantage of the forum that OGR provides, then complain about how it is run and then go over to another forum and basically trash us......No shame! OK, I am done. I have had enough of the "crew" that is recruiting folks to your new "home". The doom and gloom about how GR is going to die since the "quality" members have left sure insults those of us that are still here....In addition, I ask that you please do not contact me in the future. I have nothing else to discuss with any of the folks that have no use for me as evidenced by their actions whether those actions are direct or hidden in "Vaill" comments. There is more to this message that I am not revealing.

I immediately sent AA and RM a letter on 9/8/15 about this and spelled out in specific details the exact reasons why I decided to leave the OGR Forum and provided them with some examples. I also made it very clear to them that no one was "feeding me information" and that I made my own decisions based on the facts, and that what I stated was honest and truthful and not "bashing" by any definition. I also reminded them that I was a long term very good customer of OGR and supporter of OGR. To date I have not had the courtesy of a response.

I have cancelled my OGR magazine subscription, digital subscription, and advised OGR to delete me from their Forum.

I have graduate level education, worked 20 years at the U.S Food and Drug Administration field force in both operational and management positions where I received hundreds of hours of management training, and when I retired in 1997, I worked for a pharmaceutical industry consulting company for 10 years traveling throughout the U.S. and globally where I met and interacted with management level officials from Board of Directors, CEO's, COO's, and down. In my entire career I have never encountered a group of so called "managers" as arrogant as can be and as non-customer satisfaction driven as can be as exist at this OGR company.

I promise - no more posts about this from me. I just wanted to share this information.


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## L.J. (Jul 23, 2015)

On any of the various forums I am a member of, I am not a prolific poster. I post if I feel I can contribute to the topic being discussed. I do enjoy reading the posts for the information related to my interests. 

Well, don't know how to say this but here goes.

Time to end the "bashing". Let's take the high road, otherwise what are we turning this forum into?

Let's get back to trains. If we see a member name we know and have not seen here before, welcome them and leave it go at that.

Larry


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It is time to move on. Everyone here has found a great forum to belong to and that is what matters.

Again, if you are looking for a club, there are many. Start by looking locally and if you need help, ask here or look in the events section in the back of CTT magazine or in the TCA newsletter.


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

cchancey said:


> In my entire career I have never encountered a group of so called "managers" as arrogant as can be and as non-customer satisfaction driven as can be as exist at this OGR company.


Chancey,
I've not taken part in Facebook or any other social media sites. Maybe it is for the best. I have heard horror stories. The same holds true for all the others. The response that you received does not surprise me.
I too have a graduate level education. To this I added many medical certifications and a medical degree. I have a hard time accepting the child like behavior of individuals who are supposed to be professionals. If the same person(s) are members of this forum as they claim. Why sneak around and be so secretive about it? They should stand up and be counted. No one who moved to this forum signed a non-disclosure statement when they departed the other forum. When we agreed to the Terms Of Service we agreed to follow the Forum Guidelines. This forum is like a different world.

LJ & Lee,
You are so very right. C'mon now, somebody comment on the last TCA "Q".


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Prewar Pappy said:


> This forum is like a different world.


Mars?


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Mars?


If that is the Mars of Edgar Rice Burroughs, I'm in favor of it!


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

Or Lee, how about a good Mars Bar. It would taste pretty good.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Or Lee, how about a good Mars Bar. It would taste pretty good.


Uh oh, another Vaill'ed comment. :appl:


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Honest, I had nothing to do with this thread, earthling!


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Honest, I had nothing to do with this thread, earthling!
> 
> View attachment 74618



Another recruit?


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

Bob, you learn to take comments like the "veiled one" from it's source. It just spells out who that person really is. Remember the old TV show when they said, "will the real xxxxxx please stand up" in this case they don't have to stand up. .


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Bob, you learn to take comments like the "veiled one" from it's source. It just spells out who that person really is. Remember the old TV show when they said, "will the real xxxxxx please stand up" in this case they don't have to stand up. .


I found his commentary, especially with the use of your name, repugnant and classless.


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

I am one of the original members of the Mid America 3 Railers. I was there the day the group was formed, We all attended a train show in Springfield Missouri and then we went out for dinner together at a local restaurant that one of the members had made reservations. 

there were approximately 30 people that attended. Some were the wives or girlfriends. Part of our original purpose was that we would have get together s at at the different members homes to visit and have fun running trains. 

The first get together was after the next train show and everyone was invited to Alan's home for a bar-b-que. Alan and his wife are very gracious host. In fact he has an open invitation for anyone that is in the area to come and visit with them. I know that there are many that have visited and stayed over night with Alan and his wife.

As the group expanded its membership there were now members that were were many miles away. One of our first members was in Saint Louis and he had the next get together during a train show weekend. 

In Springfield there are about 12 to 15 guys that meet every Wed at restaurant for breakfast. Sometimes we go to one of there homes afterwards to play trains. Sometimes after the train shows these guys put together a tour where everyone that has attended the show is welcome to come to have fun at their home.

I have been a member of OGRR since march 2002. I have seen a lot of people come and go over the years. OGRR is not just a forum, it is a business.
Robert


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

Thanks for your clarification, Robert.

No doubt that most who make up this group are class individuals. This was never the question (s).

But one question not answered, is how to you personally feel about "good people" like you being tossed out without a hearing or any procedure to defend their also good names. Just wondering.

Thanks for your participation in the MTF.


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

Brian.
Apparently you are asking for my opinion about what happened. Since I am not aware of what all happened I probably will not be able to form a good opinion that you would be satisfied with. I am just going by what I see posted here. You and some others may not like what I have to say.

First, it appears to me that the title of the thread is somewhat misleading.

"Who or What is the Mid America 3 Railers-Another Must Read"

Why is this a must read on this forum ?

When you joined the MA3railers were you not aware of what the group was ? "Who or What is the Mid America 3 Railers" Is that what you really wanted to know ?

This has the appearance that you have posted this because you have a grievance that you want to air on this forum.

I can't put my finger on it but I was under the assumption that you and Alan know each other and were friends ?

According to what you posted, your logo was deleted because you have an "agenda" ? What would that agenda be ? Is there some trash talk going on about OGRR. Are there emails being sent to people trying to get OGRR members to join this forum and abandoning OGRR ?

Reading through all the post I see a couple of people that say they have tried to join the MA3railers. Why would they do that when it appears they have no clue what this is all about ?

If you want to continue the conversation off line you can contact me at [email protected]. For those that are trying to find me on OGRR I use the name "MOPAC" Wanted to use it here but the name was taken.
Robert


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Frisco Firefly, Can you tell me what MA3R has to offer as a website. As compared to CTTforum, OGRforum, & MTF forum. It is just a matter of my own curiosity, such as discussions on collecting, repairs, restorations, etc., that these other three can offer. Is Mid America 3 Railers mostly a social group that can get together at various times & locations to exchange ideas on their respective layouts. I enjoy reading mostly anything related to "O" gauge model railroading and learning from the many members of the 3 previous mentioned forums. If it does have info to be shared, it would be worth checking out. 

Can you clarify the gist of Mid America 3 railers, versus the other more popular websites.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2015)

Frisco Firefly, I'll give you one thing, your direct confrontation is refreshing! Maybe you could teach Mr. Arnold the same technique.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

Frisco Firefly said:


> Brian.
> Apparently you are asking for my opinion about what happened. Since I am not aware of what all happened I probably will not be able to form a good opinion that you would be satisfied with. I am just going by what I see posted here. You and some others may not like what I have to say.
> 
> First, it appears to me that the title of the thread is somewhat misleading.
> ...


Robert, I mean you no disrespect in the foregoing.


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

teledoc said:


> Frisco Firefly, Can you tell me what MA3R has to offer as a website. As compared to CTTforum, OGRforum, & MTF forum. It is just a matter of my own curiosity, such as discussions on collecting, repairs, restorations, etc., that these other three can offer. Is Mid America 3 Railers mostly a social group that can get together at various times & locations to exchange ideas on their respective layouts. I enjoy reading mostly anything related to "O" gauge model railroading and learning from the many members of the 3 previous mentioned forums. If it does have info to be shared, it would be worth checking out.
> 
> Can you clarify the gist of Mid America 3 railers, versus the other more popular websites.



Teledoc

The MA3R website is not a forum. It's just a website that was provided by Alan for the members of the group. Some of the members do get to travel around the country. This gives those an opportunity to get to know other members and possibly visit with them.

About 5 years ago Roger Wasson who lives in Springfield and post on OGRR saw that I live close to Springfield in Aurora and he sent me an email inviting me to come to breakfast with those that live in Springfield. That was how I became associated with all these guys.

The idea for putting a group together came about with some conversation on OGRR about having a get together. It just kind of snow balled from that. When the group was formed, Alan was not a member of the OGRR team.

Springfield is about 30 miles north of Branson Mo. A lot of people on OGRR sometimes vacation in Branson and will ask about train shops and what to see train related. Those who do will usually get an invite to come visit some of the members layouts.

Most all of these guys layouts are of the scale hi-rail type. I am the exception because I am mostly Prewar tinplate and early postwar with a few later models that fit in with what I have. I am also an exception because I don't have a layout.
Robert


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

southernrr said:


> Frisco Firefly, I'll give you one thing, your direct confrontation is refreshing! Maybe you could teach Mr. Arnold the same technique.


Gene
I hope that I am not coming across as confrontational, its not my intent. Just trying to put what I see in perspective. One of the problems with posting on a forum where you can't see the other person is that putting what one is thinking into words can be misinterpreted.
Robert


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2015)

Robert, no, I appreciated you coming forward and expressing your feelings. We have seen copies of messages where a certain member/admin from OGR was logging in over here and taking names of those who posted in disfavor to the OGR group. I have friends over at OGR that I check in with on a daily basis. Some will ask why I haven't been logging on as much, but not once, I have ever tried to entice them or suggested they move over here. All most of us want is a place where the administration is so bull-headed, defensive, and not willing to discuss issues that might come up.

I apologize if I was abrupt in my earlier post, but just couldn't sit back and watch where PTC was being attacked again. I also know that PTC can hold his own with anyone, it was just my way of showing support for a fellow forum member.


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

Quote
"but just couldn't sit back and watch where PTC was being attacked again."

Wow, I didn't realize that I came across as "attacking" Brian
Robert


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Frisco Firefly, I appreciate your response, and I see that it is mostly a Social thing, for a group to get together from time to time, to compare stories, new additions to layouts, etc..


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2015)

Robert, guess we will have to agree to disagree. Have a good weekend!


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2015)

Thanks Robert for your response. Your may also not like my reply, but here goes. 

I think from what you said, we can all assume that you are a friend of AA. The history you provided was a very favorable commentary of how the club started and the history that you could recall. In fact, you are the only one who responded to this thread that had some actual knowledge of the MA3R's. I would have also assumed that you indeed have more knowledge than the rest of us about their history represented by the questions I asked. I would have thought with all of this history you could have shed some light on some if not all of the questions I asked. How difficult would it have been to tell us if there are officers and Bylaws for this club, etc.

1. The title of the thread is not misleading. Very specific questions were asked about the organizational details of this club. I don't have the answers, so the questions are perfectly applicable. Wouldn't this be something if a member from the very beginning could not answer a single organizational question I raised. That sure would make my head spin.
2. I consider this a must read so that members of this Forum have a comparison as to how well the MTF is moderated compared to another Forum that apparently allows it's moderator to go into a members' personal information and change or delete information without their knowledge or consent. I think that it is extremely important that folks who have dual membership to be aware that if this can happen to some of us, it could be contagious. Don't you agree?
3. I had very sketchy information at best about the MA3R's when I joined. Over the years, no details were ever provided to me. From what you said, this appears to be a social club/group with activities planned for AR & MO residents, as you have reported none outside this area. If this is the total picture, what benefit would such a club be to anyone who resides outside of this area other than to display a logo?
4, These events needed to be told. How long do you think a thread like this would have lasted on the other Forum even though the information is all factual? This is almost too funny when you think about it. 
5. I have known AA for a long time. This has absolutely no bearing on the facts as I have reported them. Should you question the facts, go back and read my post where the correspondence of AA is shown not once, not twice, but three times and in writing from him.
6. In all the years that I have been a Forum member, I have done my best to be a professional at all times. For you to ask about "trash talking" is highly inappropriate as their is no such history to support such a distasteful reference. By attempting to turn the tables on me, you have resorted to the proverbial smoke screen. And when you ask if I have an agenda, every human being on the face of the Earth has some kind of an agenda, even you Robert. Is that a bad thing? So yes, I do, and it is to help make the MTF the best Forum it can be. I see nothing wrong with this agenda. Perhaps others feel threatened by this positive agenda.
6, You are asking why others have tried to join the MA3R's? Asking me specifically this question is also pretty funny. You surely must have a sense of humor.

I asked you a specific question last evening and you dodged it in your reply. The circumstances are laid out as clear as anyone could make them. Your friend, in his official capacity, and in writing confirmed, as a "moderator" , that he went into my and other members of the MTF personal information and made changes without our knowledge or approval. That is a fact. I will ask you again as a member of the MTF and a member in good standing (I think as I have no information about the membership that would suggest otherwise) of the MA3R's, do you consider this to be an unacceptable act. This is not really a complicated question, a simple yes or no will suffice. If you are uncomfortable about answering this question as it relates to the actions of your friend, most of us will draw a very clear conclusion as to your motivation anyway. 

I applaud your efforts to try to help a friend. I personally can see this as the primary motivation for the information you posted. You dodged my question and asked other questions to shift the spotlight. I don't think that worked out very well.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

With all due respect guys, does it really matter? Things like this never get resolved.

This is a great forum. It would be even better if we just talked about toy trains, so I hope everyone will just let this and similar threads die. 

There is so much fun to be had in model railroading, I just want to look forward, not back.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

I agree, it is probably AA anyway using a different name.
Dont encourage him.
Funny how AA as posted in cchancey's post claims OGRE does not tolerate members berated other members.
Yet, he and Rich do that more than anyone as do their cronies and moderators.
Is there any way to determine who AA is posing as in this forum and ban him by IP, delete his posts, edit them etc etc to give him a taste of his own medicine?


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

Brian
You are making an assumption that Alan and I are personal friends and that I am defending him.That assumption is tainting you viewpoint about me. Things you don't know about. I left the MA3R's for well over a year because I had an issue with a person that would be allowed to join the group in the future and use the logo.

At that time I deleted the logo out of my OGRR profile and many pictures that I had posted about the group. The issue that I had has been resolved because the person that I reference is no longer a member of the group or a member of OGRR. I can't remember the last time I posted on OGRR. If the logo is in my post I am not the one who put it there.

You ask questions about the MA3Rs that I don't have an answer for. At that first dinner where this came about all we did was sign our name and email address to put this together and Alan took it from there. There was nothing formal about this. No officer or by-laws that I was ever aware of. It was always just an informal group activity.

Alan came up with the name and he designed the logo along with the website. So if Alan is saying this is his group I would say that is an accurate description.

As far as my feelings about you having the logo deleted and probably deleted from the MA3Rs. I will be blunt with My answer. I could care LESS. This is an issues between you and Alan and has nothing to do with me.

The name of this informal group being Mid America, I always thought it was unusual when I saw people from the east coast using the logo.

Now my thoughts are, What was I thinking when I got involved in this thread in the first place because now I have your friends saying that I am attacking you and I am sure that I have pissed off all of your friends that support you.
Robert


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Please guys. I thought this forum as all about toy rains. I certainly want it to be. . . . Is it really that important to have the last word?


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## Frisco Firefly (May 17, 2012)

Lee Willis said:


> Please guys. I thought this forum as all about toy rains. I certainly want it to be. . . . Is it really that important to have the last word?


Sorry Lee, as long as the moderators allow members to air their grievances about what is happening on other train forums this is what you will get. Remember. All these new members coming from the other forum like the fact that they can post and say what they want here.
Robert


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

Folks ought to be able to disagree without becoming disagreeable.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)




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## Guest (Sep 14, 2015)

Big Ed, make sure the popcorn is hot and well buttered. 

This thread has served it's purpose and it is time to put it to bed.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Big Ed, make sure the popcorn is hot and well buttered.
> 
> This thread has served it's purpose and it is time to put it to bed.


Better than watching a movie.
I just wish I knew all the people you are talking about.

They really have to come here to spy?:sly:
Aren't they man enough to say anything here?

Dinner at York..........bring all the boys






settle this once and for all.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Good night to one,
Good night to all.
Time for the chamberpot,
To be put out in the hall.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

BobS said:


> Good night to one,
> Good night to all.
> Time for the chamberpot,
> To be put out in the hall.


Bob Dylan could have used you back in the 60's.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

By request of a number of members, including the thread starter, I'm going to close this. I think we've beaten this drum enough. I think everyone has had ample opportunity to air their views. 

I agree with the comments about ending the bashing of other sites, no good can come from that. I'm sure every site has good points and bad points. We thank all members, old and new, for making this a fun and hopefully useful model train site.


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