# Pipe Aboard!



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have the opportunity to show the 265E Commodore Vanderbilt with the 2225 tender.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*As is condition,*

Not working with a heavy grease drag on the drivers. For the most part the engine is complete. The trailing wheels were not attached and required cleaning. The drivers are in good condition too.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Some more*

The worst problem was the grease in the gears. Using the transmission fluid I had to work them free to a point the motoer would work, Once the cleaning was done I ran it on the track until it turned 369 degrees with out any resistance. A nice part with this motor is that the armature can easily be removed.





Just a little dirty


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*E unit*

Was working but I still cleaned it. This is the latest picture after some track testing.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Now the fun part comes, cleaning and restoring the shell.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The gun metal has scratches. I am not sure how to handle that. A worn look fits here so the shell needs little work. I am thinking of adding it to my collection. I have a box of assorted stuff I am working through and this one is closest to being finished . My LHS gave me an old 258 basket case, when I work through some issues I will start posting about that. I always wanted a 258 after all the 259 I cleaned up so now I finally have one, I do have a few projects in the back ground and hopefully get them online.

I hope you enjoyed your show John. I can't wait to hear all the stories. Some stuff has leaked out already! I bet that dinner that Brian planned was Awesome!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Paint, paint, paint!  Gunmetal gray is the color.  Henning's Trains has a lot of Collector Color paints for pre-war stuff.

Henning's Train Collector Colors

Sadly, I didn't make it to the dinner, it was 20 minutes away, and I got stuck at the Orange hall until 7:00PM, the place closed at 8:00PM. By the time I got there, I'd have had to skip dinner, that was a non-starter!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I never knew gunmetal paint existed. That is interesting and it is a good option but just not right now.. With some of the pieces I have been working on lately maybe I should I start thinking original colors!

The whistle works with a little cleaning and oil.

You missed the dinner! That's sad.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Bob, The 258 you mentioned, is it the late version, similar to the 259, or is it the early version? Another alternative to the Gunmetal paint, I found a very close match in rattle can, that I used on my 1688 locos that I have a very big collection of (14 total), not counting the 1688's. I found Duplicolor at at the Auto Parts stores, which is #BGM0344. To see what it looks like, go to my "Torpedo" posting, which will show you what the painted finish looks like. Have fun playing with this latest project, and get started on the 258. I bought two different 258 junkers, and did one in Gunmetal, and the other in Black, with 1689W tenders to match each one. They were easy projects to finish. 

I am currently working on three 1681 locos, of which one, was a donor from TJcruiser. It's all his fault for sucking me into the Prewar Tinplate realm. All of my Postwar projects are pushed back, way back, to I will get to them eventually. HaHa.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks for the tip. Here is a peek at the 258. Electrically sound but the drivers are trash. no tender.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Driver set.*

That 258 is the early version, because of the orange striped frame. The later 258's look exactly like the 259 you rehabbed previously. How bad are the drivers?? Hard to tell from that quick photo. I did some searching for drivers, depending on whether you need a whole new set, or just have to replace one or two that seem to be really bad.

I found a price for a complete set of 4 at MikesTrainsandhobbies, at a price of $27.95 for the set. If you just need single wheels, I also found at Trainz.com at $7.99 each. It all depends on what you are looking for. The drivers are used on that whole grouping of the 257, 258, 262, etc. and you would want the spoked drivers, to keep it correct. I just wanted to give you a heads up, on what you may need. Good luck, and the motor is the Type 7 from my listing from the books. A real simple motor to get going, and yours has the manual reverse unit.

Jerry


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't forget Henning's Trains, they have the complete line of Model Engineering Works pre-war wheels available.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

One rim was shot and another cracked. The gears were swaged in and a piece came off with the gear. They are brittle and the other end broke off a piece when I forced the axle out. I have two good axles and an old set of drivers. More on that later. I did a video on the whistle but the new pc has no program to edit one?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

:sold: to me! Now I am the proud owner!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice job T. Also , the duplo paint is a pretty good match, I used it also.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OK but does the gunmetal strip well?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Easy off, if i remember correctly it came off easy. I couldn't find the pictures, but there here somewhere, tj even asked for the color and brand of paint.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I do recall TJ doing a couple gunmetal paint jobs, they looked great.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Automotive "Duplicolor" paint*

T-man, The gunmetal paint on your loco does come off fairly easy, using either method of 'Easy-off' or Castrol Super Clean, which is what I use full strength. The Castrol typically takes 4-6 hours of soaking, and the usual used toothbrush scrubbing. When I am getting ready to paint, I give it a quick wipe down with 91% Alcohol, to get rid of finger print oils, etc., and then I use Krylon Supermaxx gray primer, before applying the finish color. My choice was using "Duplicolor" automotive paint, that you use on fixing nicks and scratches of paint on your vehicles.

I use Duplicolor BGM0344 Gunmetal paint, which is what I used on my 1688E bodies. Here is what it looks like finished.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I spent some searching but had no luck. The original paint on the engine has a green tint. I have the easy off but I try the color on another shell first.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I don't understand what you mean by a green tint. If you consider that these locos were produced from 1935 through 1941, and put bodies from the same loco, covering that time period, the shades of gunmetal all look different, from one to the other. Lionel couldn't keep the paint colors consistent for that many years, without having slight variations of color. Of course, it is up to you to come up with a shade that closely resembles what you are trying to achieve. There are a number of choices, from pint cans that can be bought, to rattle cans from different manufacturers. We all know you will wind up with another excellent restoration.

I have a total of 14 gunmetal gray 1688/1688E's, and five 1689 tenders, and none of them match in exact color, from one to the other. Each one has a slight difference in the tone of the paint. Just to give you an idea of how they differed throughout the years of production.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

So far I found a flat iron finish by Rustoleum. I think it has potential and will give it a trial run on something.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Bottom line is it is your call with end result. Just to give you a heads up, I pulled two identical 1688E shells with same physical characteristics that are two different gunmetal finishes. One was glossy, the other was more satin finish. Those bodies were both 1936 issued. Which would indicate they were painted at different times, and the mix was not identical.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am in no hurry and may look around some more. I have other projects in the mix too.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Isn't it fun having multiple project going at the same time???


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is the Rustoleum flat iron on the broken piece matched up with the 2225W tender shell.



Progress has been slow but recently I cleaned up two refrig cars an AF 280 engine and tender and two switch towers. Yeah there has been a few projects.

I got the shell piece just the other day in a parts bag.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

That looks pretty good, and very close to the Duplicolor I use. I'm finishing up assembling E units into my 1688 motors, to put into the bodies I have piled up. I bought a junk lot of E units awhile ago, and just needed to put new drums into them. Once I get the motors completed and installed into the "Torpedo" shells, I need to take pictures for Bruce Greenberg. My "Torpedo" file was sent to Greenberg, and he is adding my info into his next Prewar Book.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd be perfectly happy with that close a match, maybe I'm not picky enough.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks John. I like the color and found the can spray nozzle very good. Some sprays on cans are very heavy but here it's perfect.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We look forward to the completed project.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I realize you have settled on the paint (Rustoleum), but I thought I would show you the comparison of Duplicolor (auto) paint with side by side original finishes. Duplicolor is my own personal preference.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What color in Duplicolor did you use there?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

It is the darker shade gunmetal metallic, #BGM0344, and has slight metallic hint to it. There is a slightly lighter shade, but don't know the number. I just picked the BGM0344 from the cap on the spray can, that looked the closest to what I wanted. Counting left to right, #3 is Duplicolor, 1,2,&4 are original paint, which should be obvious. LOL


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Just figured it would be useful information since you were recommending that brand of paint.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The choice of paint manufacturers and the choice of color is up to each persons preference. I get excellent results, and the spray nozzles are great.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have noticed that color is hard to evaluate through a picture. I try to use natural light to show off color. I saw the Duplicolor shine I am in no hurry and may try it out. I also have a 1689e to paint. SO I have options to consider.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Partial Duplicolor spray*

Here is a 1689E shell, that I partially painted with the Duplicolor Gunmetal Metallic, on original factory paint.
















In the second photo, the Duplicolor is between the slots for the domes in the top. The original finish is on the rear and front of this shell.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The shade looks nice.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

That was taken outside in sunlight, and was just a quick spray through the midsection and leaving the original on the front and rear. Thought I would let you see it in normal light.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Catching up here a bit. Nice work on your end, as always.

I've long since drooled over the 1689 and 265 locos, but I've never nabbed either for myself. They're similar in style, as you know, but I was wondering if you could compare the shell details of each ... comparison of overall size, which parts are cast vs. sheet-metal. Which, if any, do you prefer?

Thanks!

TJ


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

TJ, The 1689/1689E (289E also) measures 9 1/8" overall length. The 265/265E measures 9 3/4" overall length. Both are completely die cast, with no sheet metal in the bodies. The 265 has a separate firebox/cab that is not part of the complete casting. I do not have a 265/265E, but I do have a 1689E. The E unit slot on the 1689 is in front of the sand dome, the 265/265E is behind the sand dome. The 265 has 0 gauge motor and the 1689 has a Lionel .jr. style motor(same as used in the 1688's. The 265 has extra linkage which gives a better appearance, versus the 1689.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*The Photo Comparison*

Much better than any old manual.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Doc, T-Man,

THANK YOU for the EXCELLENT side-by-side info and comparisons! Really informative. As I've mentioned, I'm always jealous of anyone who has one of these Vanderbilts in their stable. And I've always been confused by the distinguishing differences. For some reason, I thought the 1689 had a tinplate nose, etc. I guess not!

Again, an excellent comparison above, and I thank you both for the info/details!!!

TJ


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

TJ, T-man fortunately has both to give the real visual comparison. The 1689 bodies sometimes has a casting number underneath the shell that actually says 289E-1, which is a Rare loco. Lionel decided to cram an 0 size motor into what is an 027 body. The body for the 289 loco does not have a slot on top for an E-unit, but has the lever to the E-unit bent at 90 degrees back in the cab. I haven't figured out exactly what motor was used for the 289. It is unique, to say the least.


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