# LC-DCC



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Right now I'm using lc-dcc, home built hardware loaded with purchased software. The system uses bluetooth connection and mainly controlled through the phone. There is also a hand throttle that can control four trains, assignable through my phone. 

We also run a few trains with loco genies, so they can be remote controlled with their own remote, or through the system.

The problem is that my son doesn't have a Bluetooth device to control on his own. He can use the loco genies on his own, but anything else requires some interaction on the phone to start it off, troubleshoot or reassign trains for the hand throttle. 

What I really want is a simple system with the ability for two throttles so we can reach run trains at the same time. Low cost is a priority. Lots of fancy functions are not. And I don't mind building something, but it needs to be something with directions. I can follow directions and solder joints, but not so good at making up my own plans. 

Does such a beast exist? EZ command seems to be the prime candidate, but they really aren't cheap, especially by time you at the second throttle, which doesn't seem to be available.









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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

What's your budget?
What kind of control interfaces will you use?
Smartphone/Tablet?
Handheld?
Instead of bluetooth, would wifi interest you?

I'd look at the Digikeijs DR5000 ($200 or so in the USA).
It can accept handhelds AND it has a built in wifi module for connection to wireless devices such as phones, tablets, etc.

For a control interface (on your phones or tablet), you can download the Roco z21 control app.
It's FREE. Costs nothing. Possibly the best graphical app out there for running AND programming.
It can be used with the DR5000 as well as with Roco "boxes".

_You can demo this for free as well._
In the Apple App Store or google play (Android), search for "roco z21".
The app you want has a red engine on a blue background.
Download it and try it out.

One thing with the DR5000:
You need a PC running Windows to set it up.
or...
It can be done on a Mac running Parallels with a Windows virtual machine. I've tried it and it works in demo mode, no problems.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

$200 isn't bad, but it looks like I'll have to add throttles of some kind to that. I want a physical throttle, not just phone or tablet. I want my 7yo to be able to turn it on and operate on his own without needing a phone or PC connected. All he needs to be able to do is select a train address and control it, not access any programming or higher function. I'm fine if that requires apc, or phone. But it needs to be capable of basic operation without any of that.

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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

JMRI I think has a web based throttle. Suppose it does.

(I assume it connects to the JMRI "backend")

Then modify for simpler controls or at least rename function keys...

Of course you still need to run the browser on something... Well you have phones as you mentioned but there's Chromebooks... Laptops, flat panels...as you know.

Then there's things like this.






MRBW-CST: ProtoThrottle







www.iascaled.com





It certainly looks cool. But it's biggest issue is $500 price. (Plus receiver)


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Yeah, anything that needs a computer or phone is a non starter. That's where I'm at now. I was hoping the wired throttle would allow him to just turn it on and use that with four already assigned locos. Unfortunately, you have to configure it on the phone EVERY TIME you turn it on. So of I'm not around he can't use that. He is limited to the loco genies only. And the throttle seems a bit finicky. I've checked all my connections and they seen solid, but sometimes it just didn't recognize it. For the cost is still a pretty good dcc system. But I just want something to simplify it. Turn it on, turn throttle, run trains...x2. no need for a computer, phone, etc. And no need for a networking degree to set it up

I'm surprised at how overly complex and expensive the world of modern trains is. I'm really surprised there doesn't seem to be a market for basic DCC function in a simple, low cost form factor. I refuse to believe it isn't possible, so I'm assuming companies just don't see the market for it.

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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Well there's lionchief but I have to buy lionel ho. 

Dcc appears a little bit stuck to me at least on the interface front.

I have both the rather old mth o hand controller and the lionel legacy one. The legacy is decent ... Not great but decent.

I have 3 or 4 I forget old or original lionchief hand controllers for on gauge engines.

It's just a big twisty knob for speed and direction... A few buttons for the common most used things. 

I mean it's not bad ...very simple. And everyone gets one.

The newer version which I haven't kept up with has a little more to it but not much more.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> I'm surprised at how overly complex and expensive the world of modern trains is. I'm really surprised there doesn't seem to be a market for basic DCC function in a simple, low cost form factor. I refuse to believe it isn't possible, so I'm assuming companies just don't see the market for it.


Have you looked at the Bachmann E-Z Command DCC system? I haven't seen it, just heard about it here and in their catalog. As I understand it, it is a very basic system that allows very limited programming, mostly just selecting locomotives and controlling speed, lights, and sound. The catalog lists it at $210 but I do not know how much of a discount you can find it for on-line or in your LHS. It does sound like it would work well for what I think you are looking for.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I think EZ command would work great. However, the extra throttle isn't available anymore that I can see, even on eBay. If they were, there price would end up in the $400 range. That's pretty steep for basic operation. That's where I think Bachmann missed the mark with the EZ system. This system should have been at a much lower price point to really be viable. At nearly $400 your are entering range of a full featured system. Although I may have a line on the base system and companion for $150 used.

NCE DCC Twin is another option I've considered previously. It offers dual throttle out of the box. But you have to reprogram the trains everytime. The EZ command I could just program the addresses and be done with it. The only limitation is of we have more than 10 we would have done doubles, meaning those trains can't run simultaneously (unless as a consists). The DCC Twin can literally only have two trains on the track at once unless you upgrade to a different throttle, which gets pricey. But at least it's expandable.

As usual in life, there is no perfect answer it seems. Just a matter of which one gets closest.

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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> I think EZ command would work great. However, the extra throttle isn't available anymore that I can see, even on eBay. If they were, there price would end up in the $400 range. That's pretty steep for basic operation. That's where I think Bachmann missed the mark with the EZ system. This system should have been at a much lower price point to really be viable. At nearly $400 your are entering range of a full featured system. Although I may have a line on the base system and companion for $150 used.


Sorry, I did not know the EZ command extra throttle is not available. Rereading the original post just now, I saw you did see that.

As a beginner, all I have used is the Digitrax Zephyr. It does everything, but is a more expensive system. It only comes with one throttle though and adding a second can be cheaper than some but still costs. One of the reasons I went that way (my LHS advised me but they pointed this out) is that it allows me to use two standard DC power packs as second and third throttle. Since I was starting brand new and had bought a two oval set, I had two DC units and my granddaughters could use them while my son and I could swap off on the Zephyr. The other problem is that the jump throttles cannot select which train, the assignment gets made at the Zephyr station. I think this is the design that tried to be the least expensive way to make the upgrade to DCC for beginners by reusing some of the equipment they had. It just doesn't cover all of the scenarios such as your case.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Have you considered the NCE PowerCab? It retails for around $175, depending on the vendor. You can get an extra throttle NCE DCC Online Store That your son could use. It may be a bit more than you wanted to spend, but it would fit your requirements.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I think I'm drifting from the original question. But this seems a nice hand held. But tied to their system.









ESU 50114 Mobile Control II Remote Control Single Handset for ECoS (with Lanyard and USB-Cable)


The completely new development of the Mobile Control II is based on Android.




www.modeltrainstuff.com


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

OP wrote:
_"I want my 7yo to be able to turn it on and operate on his own without needing a phone or PC connected. All he needs to be able to do is select a train address and control it, not access any programming or higher function. I'm fine if that requires apc, or phone."_

Again, I suggest you try this, which will cost nothing and hurt nothing.

You have a smartphone or tablet for the 7-year-old, right?

Then download the z21 control app (from either the App Store or google play, as mentioned above), and see what he can do with it in demo mode.

All he needs to do is to "click the z21 app" to start it, then hit the run control. (of course, you must add engines from your layout to use it in "real mode", but demo mode has engines to try as is).

My prediction is that he'll "take to this" MUCH faster than he would to a handheld pushbutton device. Then he'll start showing YOU how to use it.. 

If the z21 app doesn't bond with him (or you), just delete it.
Again, did I mention it's completely free to demo and use forever?


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

flyboy2610 said:


> Have you considered the NCE PowerCab? It retails for around $175, depending on the vendor. You can get an extra throttle NCE DCC Online Store That your son could use. It may be a bit more than you wanted to spend, but it would fit your requirements.


Briefly, but the main system really doesn't look that simple to me. This will be operated by a 7yo. He does pretty good on his own, but it does need to be simple enough that he can't mess it up.

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

J.Albert1949 said:


> OP wrote:
> _"I want my 7yo to be able to turn it on and operate on his own without needing a phone or PC connected. All he needs to be able to do is select a train address and control it, not access any programming or higher function. I'm fine if that requires apc, or phone."_
> 
> Again, I suggest you try this, which will cost nothing and hurt nothing.
> ...


Two things;

First; how is just the app going to do anything for me? I'm confused on what this controls. There has to be some hardware for it to connect to.

Second; no, he does not have a phone or tablet... He's 7. That's why one of my requirements is a system that doesn't rely on a phone interface. That's what I have now. We have tried a few of the children's tablets, but they are all garbage and last 6 months to a year before they just stop charging or something ridiculous. I'm not interested in giving a 7yo a $500+ tablet or phone. Maybe in a few years.

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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I like this. The remote is included.

The Polar Express™ Berkshire HO Scale Locomotive and Tender with Remote

But I don't know if it works on a dcc layout. I mean to me it should be able to convert that to usable internal voltage


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

I have been thinking about this and reread what you were using. Are you planning on replacing your current system or keeping it and using a secondary throttle for son? I do not know anything about the home-built system and its capabilities, though I hope to learn more about computerized control later on. If it supports loconet though, it seems like buying any throttle would do what you want. A digitrax UT6 throttle is about $80 at Modeltrainstuff.com and you can probably shop around and find better prices.

I am assuming you knew this and it doesn't support that type of secondary connection. In that case, you are looking for a DCC command station and a secondary throttle for your son. I use the Zephyr and you can buy the same throttle as above. The Zephyr is $199 at modeltrainstuff, so your total is probably just over 300 including tax and shipping. The NCE Powercab is another popular command station in the same price range.

The part I don't know is if you can use two control stations on one layout or if this would mandate removal of your lc-dcc system. If you can figure out how to link your lc-dcc system to another command station, you would not need the throttle. You could use your existing system for your control and the Zephyr or powercab for your son's control.This part is well beyond my knowledge level so I can't help at all on it.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Severn said:


> I like this. The remote is included.
> 
> The Polar Express Berkshire HO Scale Locomotive and Tender with Remote
> 
> But I don't know if it works on a dcc layout. I mean to me it should be able to convert that to usable internal voltage


We have a few of these, they work on DC or DCC. But buying one for every loco gets expensive.

Loco Genie<sup>TM</sup> 


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Sorry, one last thought where I could help. If you decide you want to try some type of phone interface, I have an android phone I did not like and replaced. It is about a year old and was a flagship phone. I have no use for it now and could send it to you for your son to use. You can use it with wifi or bluetooth without activating it or paying the phone company. I bought a wifi interface for my system and do use the phone I carry for a spare throttle when my grandkids are using the others. It can be a handy way to go.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Steve Rothstein said:


> I have been thinking about this and reread what you were using. Are you planning on replacing your current system or keeping it and using a secondary throttle for son? I do not know anything about the home-built system and its capabilities, though I hope to learn more about computerized control later on. If it supports loconet though, it seems like buying any throttle would do what you want. A digitrax UT6 throttle is about $80 at Modeltrainstuff.com and you can probably shop around and find better prices.
> 
> I am assuming you knew this and it doesn't support that type of secondary connection. In that case, you are looking for a DCC command station and a secondary throttle for your son. I use the Zephyr and you can buy the same throttle as above. The Zephyr is $199 at modeltrainstuff, so your total is probably just over 300 including tax and shipping. The NCE Powercab is another popular command station in the same price range.
> 
> The part I don't know is if you can use two control stations on one layout or if this would mandate removal of your lc-dcc system. If you can figure out how to link your lc-dcc system to another command station, you would not need the throttle. You could use your existing system for your control and the Zephyr or powercab for your son's control.This part is well beyond my knowledge level so I can't help at all on it.


It would have to replace LC-DCC. I would still use that on my secondary layout. I don't believe there is a way to support loco net with it, although I might bring it up with the developer.

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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> It would have to replace LC-DCC. I would still use that on my secondary layout. I don't believe there is a way to support loco net with it, although I might bring it up with the developer.


In that case, I think the least expensive way would be something like the Zephyr with an additional throttle so you can both use it at the same time. I am partial to the Zephyr from my personal use, but I knwo there are a couple other beginner sets that are recommended. I believe the Powercab is probably the most popular on this forum.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Is the smart device the issue? If so I would think you could get a smart device second hand for less than updating your tested and proven dcc system. I have the old bachman ez command system that I have in one of my work shop cabinets but that thing is SUPER limited on what it’s capable of doing. At that point you may as well if stayed with dc and a bunch of controllers


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Jscullans said:


> Is the smart device the issue? If so I would think you could get a smart device second hand for less than updating your tested and proven dcc system. I have the old bachman ez command system that I have in one of my work shop cabinets but that thing is SUPER limited on what it’s capable of doing. At that point you may as well if stayed with dc and a bunch of controllers


Even the EZ command is a huge step up from dc. I don't know s way to run two trains on the same track independently in DC, so I can't fathom your comment even a little. 

We aren't thrilled with giving it 7yo a smart device. Although I may entertain the idea of using one dedicated to the train layout only. Still, that leaves a higher level of complexity should there be problems, and it's almost certain that a cheap smart device will have issues.

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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

it's been on my list forever which now means i may never get to it -- to try to make a joystick work. you know forward push to go or go faster. back is slower -- all the way back is the brakes. left or right switches the switch nearest the engine under control. misc switch buttons make sounds or lights do things. etc...


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

This will be my last reply to you.

If the kid doesn't have a smartphone or decent tablet yet, then try the z21 app on YOUR phone.

Why are you afraid even to try what I'm suggesting?
It costs _nothing._
It will hurt _nothing._
If you try it and don't like it, _just delete it._

But again I'll predict:
If you put the z21 app on the phone, and let him try it in demo mode, he'll "take to it" immediately.
Kids are like that.

Of course, at this point, it can only run in demo mode.
To make it "work for real", get a dcc "box" (hardware).
The Digikeijs DR5000 I mentioned above is what you want, and the price is right as well.

You could pick up an older (refurb) smartphone for the kid (probably for less than $50), and leave "the phone connection" OFF, and just let the kid use it for the apps and wifi.

_(that's it for me in this thread)_


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

When you’re trying to run a couple locomotives with the ez command system you can’t control the speed on one of them so if you have one at half throttle and another at 3/4 throttle then switch to another it immediately slams up to wherever the throttle is set. I have no clue about your layout or how any of it is set up but coming from someone who has USED the ez command system I’m telling you that it’s not anywhere as user friendly as say my digitrax system. Not only that but the ez command system may be good enough for a small 4x8 layout but not much more due to it being such a small unit. If you’re against a kid having a smart device then that’s fine but that’s the cheapest route to go instead of updating to digitrax or another comparable brand. I guess it’s you have to pick the lesser of the evils


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Jscullans said:


> When you’re trying to run a couple locomotives with the ez command system you can’t control the speed on one of them so if you have one at half throttle and another at 3/4 throttle then switch to another it immediately slams up to wherever the throttle is set. I have no clue about your layout or how any of it is set up but coming from someone who has USED the ez command system I’m telling you that it’s not anywhere as user friendly as say my digitrax system. Not only that but the ez command system may be good enough for a small 4x8 layout but not much more due to it being such a small unit. If you’re against a kid having a smart device then that’s fine but that’s the cheapest route to go instead of updating to digitrax or another comparable brand. I guess it’s you have to pick the lesser of the evils


Thanks for that, I appreciate the input and get what your saying. That is a drawback for sure

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

J.Albert1949 said:


> This will be my last reply to you.
> 
> If the kid doesn't have a smartphone or decent tablet yet, then try the z21 app on YOUR phone.
> 
> ...


J, I do appreciate the input. Honestly I do. I was trying hard to avoid the smart device route in favor of a simple physical knobs and switches for simplicity. I will take a look at the app though.

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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Jscullans said:


> When you’re trying to run a couple locomotives with the ez command system you can’t control the speed on one of them so if you have one at half throttle and another at 3/4 throttle then switch to another it immediately slams up to wherever the throttle is set. I have no clue about your layout or how any of it is set up but coming from someone who has USED the ez command system I’m telling you that it’s not anywhere as user friendly as say my digitrax system. Not only that but the ez command system may be good enough for a small 4x8 layout but not much more due to it being such a small unit. If you’re against a kid having a smart device then that’s fine but that’s the cheapest route to go instead of updating to digitrax or another comparable brand. I guess it’s you have to pick the lesser of the evils


@vette-kid, while I like my Digitrax Zephyr, the command station does behave the same way. The throttle on it is more like a rheostat with fixed zero throttle and full throttle settings. If you have it set at any point, and switch to another train, it is like telling that train to move to that throttle setting. A second throttle solves this unless it behaves the same way like when i use the DC power pack as a jump throttle. Purchasing the UT6 throttle I mentioned solves this because it uses an electronic wheel with no fixed points to control the throttle. I went the other way and bought the wifi connection and use my phone for a throttle. The software for the phone lets me have multiple throttles active on it at one time.

And just so you know, the way to protect your child when using a smart device for the throttle is to set it up as a dedicated throttle, as you mentioned. Do not buy any data plan for it at all, and just use the wifi connection to download the app you want to use. After you download and connect to the loconet interface, you can tell the device to forget the wifi network password so it won't connect to it. Then it will only connect to the loconet wifi and can be a dedicated throttle with no other access. That is how it works with the Digitrax LNWI system, at least.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

If the price was right on the ez command system it still may work with the extra throttle. Realistically we just have the two trains, one for each of us. I can't see us running more than that, it's not that big of a layout at 4 x 12. 

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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I don’t have the track cord for mine anymore or I would try mine to see if it was worth anything.


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