# Photo of the day!!!



## mopac

I am starting this thread in hopes that it will catch on. About 10 years ago I was a moderator for a diecast forum and I started a thread like this one and it carried on for years. This will be a thread where the members will post one pic each day when possible. We all like pics. Most of us are here every day any way.
I have noticed we have been having a lot of guests lately to the S forum. That is great. Maybe they will join so they can participate.
You have to be a member to post pics. Its easy and its free. Simple idea. Post only one pic a day here. Pics can be anything AF. Try to have only one item in pic. Pic can be locomotive, AF accessory, or a car. If you run out of stuff to show start over.
With your pic tell us a little about the item. Like where you got it, if it is working, what you need to do to it, anything. Remember, only one pic here each day. Just so the thread will last longer. I love pics and hope you do also. I will start it off with next post.


And of coarse you can post more than one comment each day. Fly/onel items can be posted.


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## mopac

This is my first AF locomotive. Got it used in 1955. It is a 1952 model. Runs great Being from when I was a kid I am fond of it.
Oh, its a 282, plastic body Pacific. I need to resolder wires from tender to engine plug. Since this pic I have installed a new harness.


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## Panther

I'm not really up on AF trains, but I got this shell in a box of Marx stuff about 5 or 6 years ago. I believe it was originally a wind up with a battery tender for light. Any more info would be appreciated. Or if someone has the motor for it they would like to get rid of. 
(I don't know if that should be in the Classified or not, if so just delete that portion.)

Dan


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## mopac

Wow Panther, that is an old one. Pre War for sure. I know nothing about it. I tell you who might, Teledoc..
He messes with those old tin plate locomotives. If you think it might be O gauge post a pic in the O gauge forum and Teledoc will see it.


Better yet, post it in the "Tin Plate" forum. Someone there will know about it.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

Thanks Al! A good idea. This is my first picture. I am going to have to get out my camera.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## mopac

Thanks for participating Broke.


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## Kelpieflyer

Here's my Royal Blue rebuild. It was my Uncle's engine from 1951. I repainted it, put in a can motor, electronic e-unit and smoke. Works great.


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## mopac

She's a beauty. That's great it is a smoker. Good job. Funny, I had already thought I would show my Royal Blue tomorrow. I will save it.
Did you put a LED in for headlight?


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## flyernut

Nothing from me yet....


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## mopac

LOL, when you get around to it.


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## mopac

A fly/onel set. Beautiful train. From early 1980s. Southerm Pacific Day Light scheme.

PA locomotives A B A. With Railsounds.

I don't have a layout so most pictures are done on top of wall behind my house.


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## ebtnut

I almost got one of those Royal Blue sets. When I was around 6 or 7 my dad took me to a big hobby shop (Corr's in D.C.) to get a new train set for my birthday. I had an old Marx set but I wanted something more "interesting". When we got there he said pick what you like. They had a Royal Blue set, but I opted for a 3-car standard passenger set with a New Haven Pacific loco. It had a figure 8 of track with the set. I eventually traded the whole thing for an HO train table when I entered into the scale hobby about 10 years later.


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## mopac

The Royal Blue is one good looking locomotive. I have one. Hope to add a smoke unit someday. They did not come with a smoke unit. Nor a hole in smoke stack. Easy enough to take care of with a drill. Kinda watching for a Silver Bullet locomotive for cheap to put under my Royal Blue shell. The Silver Bullet has smoke unit and the added side rod linkage like the Royal Blue.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, good idea starting this thread. For my first contribution I am unfortunately breaking a few of the rules you set. I will try to adhere closer with future contributions.
This is a Lackawanna Trainmaster from AM. I purchased it new at an S Fest many years ago in Chicago. It has been modified to add Railsounds and run with the Legacy control system.
The photo was taken today in the freight yard area of my layout.


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## mopac

You are fine Tom. Great looking locomotive. Anything S scale is fine. Thanks for participating. This will give us something new to look at each day.


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## AmFlyer

I was thinking about what I could post that would be both interesting and not something one sees every day. While my first trainset was purchased in 1950 by my parents I have been collecting in some manner since the late 1970’s. On the other hand some of these items may be totally boring to look at. 
I cannot post every day since I am home usually only 4 days/week.So here goes.
Ever wonder how train sets and some other items got from the factory to the distributors. The answer is master cartons. Here is a master carton for shipping the 5108-W set. It holds two sets. Yes, this one has the two complete sets in it. One side has a closeup of the set info, the other is just the other side so the whole carton is visible.


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## yd328

Here's my 312, 322, and now a 332.
https://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=503096&stc=1&d=1563920195

Gary


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## Chuck7612

My Uncle Bill's 295 that I repainted, changed tender, added head and tail light, added smokestack, added DC can motor, added TMCC cruise lite and railsounds (including chuff switch on the smoke plunger gear), and added decals in attempt at a rough replica of the famous L&N 152. It's certainly no scale model, but it was my first attempt at many of these types of mods and it was done to a piece of my family's history.


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## dooper

When I get home again, I will post my pic. great idea.


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## mopac

We certainly have some great S scale collectors here. All neat stuff. thanks for showing
guys. This is already a great thread. We will get some neat ideas from each other. And
for me maybe some motivation for a layout.


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## shaker281

mopac said:


> View attachment 503008
> 
> 
> 
> A fly/onel set. Beautiful train. From early 1980s. Southerm Pacific Day Light scheme.
> 
> PA locomotives A B A. With Railsounds.
> 
> I don't have a layout so most pictures are done on top of wall behind my house.


I really like the way you display the locomotives on the wall. Looks cool.

And a darn fine looking train set.


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## shaker281

AmFlyer said:


> Mopac, good idea starting this thread. For my first contribution I am unfortunately breaking a few of the rules you set. I will try to adhere closer with future contributions.
> This is a Lackawanna Trainmaster from AM. I purchased it new at an S Fest many years ago in Chicago. It has been modified to add Railsounds and run with the Legacy control system.
> The photo was taken today in the freight yard area of my layout.
> 
> View attachment 503044


That is really nice. I've been focused on finding S gauge accessories. At some point I am going to start looking at locomotives.


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## shaker281

yd328 said:


> Here's my 312, 322, and now a 332.
> https://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=503096&stc=1&d=1563920195
> 
> Gary


Sweet.


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## shaker281

Chuck7612 said:


> My Uncle Bill's 295 that I repainted, changed tender, added head and tail light, added smokestack, added DC can motor, added TMCC cruise lite and railsounds (including chuff switch on the smoke plunger gear), and added decals in attempt at a rough replica of the famous L&N 152. It's certainly no scale model, but it was my first attempt at many of these types of mods and it was done to a piece of my family's history.


Nice work. I love mods.


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## mopac

My B&O Royal Blue. Cab #350 (I think). I got this from one of our members. flyguy55. In running condition. I like it.
I think a 1948 model. To me this should be a passenger locomotive but It came in freight sets.


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## AmFlyerFan

shaker281 said:


> I really like the way you display the locomotives on the wall. Looks cool.
> 
> And a darn fine looking train set.


+1 on the display. I'll be back.


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> View attachment 503128
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My B&O Royal Blue. Cab #350 (I think). I got this from one of our members. flyguy55. In running condition. I like it.
> I think a 1948 model. To me this should be a passenger locomotive but It came in freight sets.


I got a Royal Blue engine and set from the same person,lol.. He must be making them,lol....


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## Kelpieflyer

Yep. I put in a warm white LED so it doesnt have all that bluish tint.

Looking for some beat up streamliner passenger cars to paint. I have one dome and observation car. All I need is a couple of coaches and a baggage car.



mopac said:


> She's a beauty. That's great it is a smoker. Good job. Funny, I had already thought I would show my Royal Blue tomorrow. I will save it.
> Did you put a LED in for headlight?


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## mopac

Headlight looks great. I assume you will paint passenger cars blue to go with The Royal Blue. AF made a Royal Blue with blue passenger cars for O scale, prewar. But not for S scale. So you agree there should be blue passenger cars for the Royal Blue S scale.


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## Kelpieflyer

I think Flyer would have sold tons of the Royal Blue S gauge sets had they offered them. I thought of getting an old O gauge set of the passenger cars and putting S gauge trucks on them, but I really like the newer light weight streamliner cars better than the heavy weight style.

If anyone has some beat up streamliner cars they don't want, I'd like to buy them. I'm having a hard time finding cars that are all scratched up but not destroyed to repaint. I've been installing some LED's in passenger cars using the LED modules and using to separate led strips in the car to even out the light.


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## mopac

I have heard of people changing trucks on the O scale cars. I think the way you are heading would be best. Good luck.


I have not put any LEDs in my locomotives but it is coming.


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## mopac

A 1/64 scale gas station by GreenLight. They mainly produce 1/64
diecast vehicles. Got this at Toys R Us when they were open.
These were made in both Gulf and Texaco.


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## AmFlyer

That is a nice gas station. They are hard to find in S scale. Somehow I missed out on buying one.
Here is a picture of the Gulf station on my layout along with some 1/64th cars.


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## Sagas

*The #215 Water Tank*

As far as I can tell it was produced from 1938 > 1940 (when the #596 was introduced). The counter-weight is a replacement and it is missing the collar for the light at the top. The original price was $1.25. This is the best I have come across so far. J.B.


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## shaker281

Sagas said:


> As far as I can tell it was produced from 1938 > 1940 (when the #596 was introduced). The counter-weight is a replacement and it is missing the collar for the light at the top. The original price was $1.25. This is the best I have come across so far. J.B.


Nice looking piece!


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## mopac

Very nice water tank. Great condition. Paint that weight black.


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## mopac

This the first of 2 1948 302s I have bought from flyernut. Being from flyernut you know it runs well. It is a four piece diecast boiler with metal handrails. flyernut did a complete repaint of this engine. Nice job. He redid cab numbers and lettering on the metal tender. It looks new. I really like these 1948 302s. It has the extra linkage and a high mounted headlight. Hard to see in pic.


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## AmFlyerFan

Here's my upstairs office/spare bedroom/display. 
That ain't cigar smoke in the air.
Maybe I'll put it on a timer for an alarm clock when the wife kicks me out of the master bedroom.


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## mopac

Cool display. Thanks for showing. Good smoker. my screen is not that clear, what cab number is that.
Maybe 282. Nice engine. 1953 model with white inside smoke stack.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

AmFlyerFan said:


> Here's my upstairs office/spare bedroom/display.
> That ain't cigar smoke in the air.
> Maybe I'll put it on a timer for an alarm clock when the wife kicks me out of the master bedroom.


I like your fragile lamp!


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## mopac

That's a major award!!!


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## AmFlyerFan

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I like your fragile lamp!


That's the only "Major" Award in my humble life. We love that movie at X-mas here.

I've thought about a X-mas display with the tree & tv (with that movie) in the background, Too bad the tv is up the wall in a corner.

Mopac, I was inspired by your outside display, & others. Top Notch!

That steamer is a 21085 from an uncle. When he saw how crazy I was for my original 1957 Baldwin diesel set. He gave me his American Flyer stuff. Unlike him I never did/never will outgrow it! 

It's smoke output was sub-par. I rebuilt it with tips from our members here. My wife claims it'll (almost) set off the smoke detector up there.


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## AmFlyer

Sagas, the 215 Water Tank in your picture was sold from 1934 through 1940. There were three variations made. The one in the picture is a type 1 with a green ladder. Type II had a red ladder and Type III a yellow ladder. The original weight is a medium gray color.


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## Sagas

*Gabe the Lamplighter #23780*

Gabe was given to me as a Xmas gift back in 58' and I still have the original box and instructions (just too lazy to dig them out). I still enjoy the action of him going up the ladder one step at a time and sliding back down. It should be shown on a layout but I am still working on one and trying to place all 30 accessories I have in it. J.B.


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## AmFlyer

For todays picture I chose a 342AC that I run on the layout and a modified 613 GN boxcar. I bought the 342AC December 1993 at the DuPage meet. It is just short of excellent condition because the lettering is a bit weak and there is very slight paint wear on the edge of the coal bunker. It is likely a 1950 engine, it has AF not AFL on the tender and it has the 2 spring rather than 3 spring tender trucks. I have never had it apart to look for a date stamp, it is completely original.
The 613 has an SnS track cleaning chassis under it with link rather than knuckle couplers. They usually put this assembly in a D&H gondola and use the center canister to hide the vertical motor. 









I tried posing these on the mantle in my office rather than on the layout.


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## AmFlyer

Take good care of Gabe. In that condition with the OB and all the paper it is worth about $600.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

Not as impressive as everyone else's but such as it is. I need to send my projects to FlyerNut for his magic but I am still trying to push myself thru it. Maybe some day... :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## mopac

Gabe the Lamplighter is awesome. Great condition. 30 accessories, holy cow.
The 342AC is very nice. I don't have one of those switchers. That will change someday. A nice one is not cheap.
Nice 312 Broke. Let flyernut go through it and reassemble. Those K5s are cool locomotives.

I guess I didn't realize the cool things our members have. Thanks for showing.


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## Sagas

*For AmFlyer & mpoac*

Thanks for the additional info on the little water tank Tom. It seems Gabe has had a better return on investment than most banks. His original price in the 58' catalogue was $9.95.

At one point I had more accessories than trains mopac, however that has changed significantly. I have come to the conclusion that rather than dedicate one floor of the house to accommodate everything I will have to settle for a small layout and rotate trains and certain accessories in and out from time to time (pity).

Regards, J.B.


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## MichaelE

AmFlyerFan said:


> Here's my upstairs office/spare bedroom/display.
> That ain't cigar smoke in the air.
> Maybe I'll put it on a timer for an alarm clock when the wife kicks me out of the master bedroom.


Outstanding!!!


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## mopac

Sagas, you can rotate your office display also. I bet many of us can't have all locomotives on the layout all the time. I hope to have 4 loops on my layout. How many locomotives can you have on 4 loops. For a photo you might load them up, but to run probably 4. Maybe 1 or 2 more on sidings. I guess I have maybe 24 locomotives counting diesels, maybe 30 counting A-B-A units as 3. At one time I was hoping to have 10 steamers. I probably have 20 steamers. I overdo all my hobbies. LOL. At one time I had over 7,000 1/64 diecast vehicles. I sold a few thousand and down to 4,000. I have plenty for a layout. Although most are still in their package, most are collector pieces. I sold one for $750.00. Yep. a 1/64 car for 750. Only 3 of them were made and I was lucky enough to have one. I have many that only 100 or less were made. Found many of them at Toys R Us. I was a professional hunter. Spent a lot of time hunting. You have to know what you are hunting for.


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## AFGP9

Like you mopac I had several thousand die cast vehicles as I used to be a Hot Wheels and Matchbox collector/ seller. The most I ever had was 5,000. Took up three walls in my basement plus I forget how many of those plastic containers that have pullout drawers. I never got $750 for any one of them but I did sell several in the $200-300 range. That was then turned into train buying money or I bought somebody's die cast collection to resell for train money. Still got just over 2,000 of the things. Some of those cars and trucks look fine on my Flyer layout. Matchbox made some nice stuff way back when. Since my layout is in the early years of the steam to diesel era, those cars and trucks go a long way toward identifying and dating the years, especially those old Matchbox Cadillacs and trucks.


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## mopac

LOL, I only got 750 once. Most are in the 30 to 100 range. But that is pretty good.


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## shaker281

Sagas said:


> Gabe was given to me as a Xmas gift back in 58' and I still have the original box and instructions (just too lazy to dig them out). I still enjoy the action of him going up the ladder one step at a time and sliding back down. It should be shown on a layout but I am still working on one and trying to place all 30 accessories I have in it. J.B.


I was shopping these recently. Like Amflyer says, the prices for originals in great condition are astounding! Very nice.

I just scored a reproduction in mint condition for $68 (shipped) and am pretty happy about that, but it is not an original. I'd rather have an original, but ... $68! I'll post a pic when it arrives.


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## shaker281

Here is the 312 I have gone over 3 times. Third time is the charm! Runs good. Smokes. Pulls it's original cars with no problem, even at half throttle. Reverse unit has a satisfying "snap" and is consistent.


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## flyernut

shaker281 said:


> Here is the 312 I have gone over 3 times. Third time is the charm! Runs good. Smokes. Pulls it's original cars with no problem, even at half throttle. Reverse unit has a satisfying "snap" and is consistent.


Do you use a transition car on your set??


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## flyernut

Here's my contribution... I have a beautiful 303 I'm working on, but this is the one I'd like to show, especially for MOPAC. It's the "Blue Lady", featuring Jim Morrison from the Doors.1 of 9999 made. Morrison actually owned a car like this.


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## shaker281

flyernut said:


> Do you use a transition car on your set??


 I think you are asking if one of the commuter cars has both a knuckle coupler and link coupler. The answer is yes. It was the way it came from the garage sale find circa 1969. Though I have not run the New Haven commuter cars yet. I have pulled the original freight cars that came with this 312 when I got it. Pulls them easily and they are all converted to KC, though again, before I acquired them.


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## shaker281

AFGP9 said:


> ... I used to be a Hot Wheels and Matchbox collector/ seller. ...


On that note, here is my original Chaparral 2G from my childhood. The wing is repro. I have almost all my originals from the 1960's.


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## mopac

Shaker, that 312 and the cars look great. Glad it is performing. LOL, some times it takes 3 times. And nice old diecast.
I don't have ANY original AF passenger cars. Not happy about that. I really just started collecting AF 2 to 3 years ago.

flyernut, sounds like you found your "Blue Lady" Can't see it though. I think I want to
acquire a 303, 307, 308. Never ends does it.


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## Chuck7612

My MTH F3 A-B-A set.


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## mopac

Pic of one of my 2 Hudsons. Pretty nice 326. Bought off ebay.
I think I bought it "untested" which in ebay lingo means it does not run. I have not got to it to repair. Seems it might just be a wire needs resoldered at plug. She is all there.


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## mopac

Great looking engine set Chuck. Nice layout.


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## mopac

Chuck, I only have one MTH engine. And it is O scale. I will show it anyway. It is bad to the bone. N&W J Class #611. It does all kinds of things. It will pull into station, go through some sounds, and then take off all on its own. It is scale size. Huge engine. Got it off ebay at a really good price. It was some ones display engine and never run. I bought some passenger cars for it from a local forum member.


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> Shaker, that 312 and the cars look great. Glad it is performing. LOL, some times it takes 3 times. And nice old diecast.
> I don't have ANY original AF passenger cars. Not happy about that. I really just started collecting AF 2 to 3 years ago.
> 
> flyernut, sounds like you found your "Blue Lady" Can't see it though. I think I want to
> acquire a 303, 307, 308. Never ends does it.


I had another brain fart. I forgot to add the picture!!!! I'm working on a nice 303 right now!!!!.. Good luck on that 308, I only saw 1, years ago, at a train show.


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## mopac

Good looking Mustang!!!


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## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> Great looking engine set Chuck. Nice layout.


Thanks. That O scale J Class is a beauty.


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## shaker281

flyernut said:


> I had another brain fart. I forgot to add the picture!!!! I'm working on a nice 303 right now!!!!.. Good luck on that 308, I only saw 1, years ago, at a train show.
> View attachment 503638


I'll be darned, that's a 67 GT500!


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## flyguy55

Royal Blue freight set.....Anytime I see them for sale I buy them..Over the years I have bought and sold at least 10...Great looking engine but what most people do not realize it was a starter set....Very common freight consist and the engine did not have smoke or choo-choo sound....gotta like em...


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## Sagas

*The Saw Mill*

I came across this and a complete set some years ago at a garage sale. Always wanted one but all that I saw were broken, incomplete etc. The roof is just showing the reflection of the box label. Good things can happen when you least expect it. J.B.


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## shaker281

Yeah, that thing is fun to watch, Sagas. Maybe I'll look for one someday. I am an accessory junkie! I have no illusions that I'll stumble across ona at a garage sale, though.


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## mopac

This is a B&O caboose I bought for my B&O Royal Blue engine.
I have always matched my caboose with railroad of locomotive.
Is it vintage, no. Is it the caboose that came with the Royal Blue, no. But, it works for me. I am president of my railroad. LOL.
Made by Lionel. It was cheap. Maybe 10 bucks new in box. I like bay window caboose. I do plan on buying some vintage bay window. They do cost more, sometimes a lot more. This one is lighted.


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## Sagas

Here's another one for you mopac. J.B.


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## mopac

Very nice. An action caboose. Cool. Great condition.


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## cramden

Great idea mopac. Here's my Royal Blue from 1948 along with its 630 caboose from set 48T.


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## mopac

Nice pics cramden. Gotta love the Royal Blue. Nice.

Great to see you on the forum.


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## cramden

Sagas said:


> Here's another one for you mopac. J.B.


That's in great shape, very nice. Some of the 5 digit bay windows are pricey.


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## mopac

I am digging all the pics in this thread. Something to look forward to every day.
Thanks to all that participate. And the guests that view. We are well over 1,000
views already.


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## cramden

Here's one of my 282's from 1953.


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## mopac

Sweet. For some reason 282s sure run good. That thing looks new.
A lot of scuffs on mine. I have a 1952 and a 1953. The 53 is nice.
Your train room is awesome.


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## sid

went to the park and got these pics


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

sid said:


> went to the park and got these pics


Is that in Roeding Park? I left Fresno in 1980 and I don't remember seeing it way back then. Was this engine part of the Friant Line? The "Fresburg" area is one of my most favorite places. Five of our seven kids were born there. We lived in town and then bought a place at Meadow Lake and then built a home on 16 acres in Auberry. Many great memories.


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## mopac

Thanks for showing the pics. Glad some of these old steamers are being saved and not
sent to the scrap yards. So many have met that fate.


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## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> I was thinking about what I could post that would be both interesting and not something one sees every day. While my first trainset was purchased in 1950 by my parents I have been collecting in some manner since the late 1970’s. On the other hand some of these items may be totally boring to look at.
> I cannot post every day since I am home usually only 4 days/week.So here goes.
> Ever wonder how train sets and some other items got from the factory to the distributors. The answer is master cartons. Here is a master carton for shipping the 5108-W set. It holds two sets. Yes, this one has the two complete sets in it. One side has a closeup of the set info, the other is just the other side so the whole carton is visible.
> 
> View attachment 503088
> 
> 
> View attachment 503090


Not boring to me Tom. That's an unbelievable find. I have to ask, are the individual sets still sealed? Even if not , what a great item to have.


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## AmFlyer

I purchased the master carton separately from the two sets now inside the carton. I got the master almost for free. This one is nice because the cardboard is in good condition and all the stamps are factory fresh. I have seen other master cartons with things such as separate sale freight cars and passenger cars inside. I passed on those because the sellers wanted 5X the separate sale value of the contents. One was MSOB but the seller wanted $2,500 for it. there were six boxcars in it worth about $600 total at the time. 
I have more uncommon things in the works but not until I get back home and find them in the storage crates.


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## cramden

I have passed on numerous boxes and set boxes for that reason, too much money being asked. I was at Allentown a few years ago and a seller had about a dozen empty set boxes, but the prices were more than I wanted to spend for an empty box. Too many train items I'd rather spend money on. Besides, I've never seen a box that ran when put on the track. Nice to have the box if the item is for sale that way, but not a deal breaker for me if it doesn't.


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## sid

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Is that in Roeding Park? I left Fresno in 1980 and I don't remember seeing it way back then. Was this engine part of the Friant Line? The "Fresburg" area is one of my most favorite places. Five of our seven kids were born there. We lived in town and then bought a place at Meadow Lake and then built a home on 16 acres in Auberry. Many great memories.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2RCB4IHrS0


no sir this is in arkansas state park not far from my house. cant remember the starts with a W


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## sid

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Is that in Roeding Park? I left Fresno in 1980 and I don't remember seeing it way back then. Was this engine part of the Friant Line? The "Fresburg" area is one of my most favorite places. Five of our seven kids were born there. We lived in town and then bought a place at Meadow Lake and then built a home on 16 acres in Auberry. Many great memories.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2RCB4IHrS0


i remember seeing that loco many times when i lived there. this is the first time ive seen a video of it. very cool Thank You.


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## AmFlyer

Back at home this afternoon so I was able to photograph a contribution for today. These are 3 new in the box Pikemaster items. The 24302 Terminal and Uncoupler Track, the 26320 RH Remote Control Pikemaster Turnout and the 26322 Pikemaster 90 deg crossover.
These also came in blister packs, unfortunately after 10 minutes searching through my storage crates I could not find those to include in the picture.


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## AmFlyer

Here is a special today for Mopac. I came across one of my LN/OB Eagle boxcars while looking for the Pikemaster Blister Packs. This is the 983.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

sid said:


> no sir this is in arkansas state park not far from my house. cant remember the starts with a W


You had me confused Sid.hwell: That is not hard to do nowadays. I had assumed that it was in Fresno CA because of your info data. No matter what, they are GREAT photos and I appreciate you posting them.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## mopac

Tom, nice mopac car. I don't have one yet. Prices are all over the place on those. I have seen them at 20 and some are over 100. I need to watch the car numbers. Thanks for showing.


----------



## mopac

Broke, I can see why you thought he is in Fresno, Ca. Duh.


----------



## mopac

944 crane and 945 work caboose combo. Nice condition.
Ebay purchase. I can not remember if I bought them together or separately. I think separately.
A classic 2 car tandem set.


----------



## AmFlyer

They definitely belong together.


----------



## mopac

A flat car that I am adding 3 1/64 diecast farm tractors to. Makes a nice load. I do not have them tied down yet. Maybe braided fishing line. Maybe thin chain. Maybe add some wood chocks.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> View attachment 503846
> 
> 
> 944 crane and 945 work caboose combo. Nice condition.
> Ebay purchase. I can not remember if I bought them together or separately. I think separately.
> A classic 2 car tandem set.


I have a "thing" for this pair. At last count I believe I have around 10 pairs, and even more 944 singles.


----------



## sid

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> You had me confused Sid.hwell: That is not hard to do nowadays. I had assumed that it was in Fresno CA because of your info data. No matter what, they are GREAT photos and I appreciate you posting them.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


i should prob change that huh hhahaha


----------



## yd328

https://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=503886&stc=1&d=1564491389

My halftrack load.

Gary


----------



## shaker281

I like what you guys are doing with the flatcars! Neat.


----------



## shaker281

cramden said:


> Here's one of my 282's from 1953.
> View attachment 503678


I like that table. Mianne? Nice stuff. 

'Daves AFtrains' has a series of videos on Youtube with a new layout using their "benchwork".


----------



## mopac

Quote -I have a "thing" for this pair. At last count I believe I have around 10 pairs, and even more 944 singles.

flyernut, I have at least 2 of this pair. I also have a 5 digit crane. I like the pair also. I think many sets came with the pair.


yd328, great looking flat car load. I really like the AF flat cars. Need more. Wanting to get a few of the American Flyer 
semi trailers to put on some flats.


----------



## cramden

shaker281 said:


> I like that table. Mianne? Nice stuff.
> 
> 'Daves AFtrains' has a series of videos on Youtube with a new layout using their "benchwork". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMO1x0t2maI


shaker281, yes it's Mianne. With only a limited space available I went with their 6x8 ft. kit. I did add 6" to the width to give me a 3" overhang on each of the 6' sides. I would recommend Mianne without hesitation. It is adaptable and you can order any number of pieces to extend or alter your design.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Here is a special today for Mopac. I came across one of my LN/OB Eagle boxcars while looking for the Pikemaster Blister Packs. This is the 983.
> 
> View attachment 503826


Nice pieces to have Tom. I have the 983 which is part of set 20375. I bought the set from a private individual. He no longer had any boxes for it, but it was well cared for. I never was interested in any Pikemaster trains. Missing out on some very collectable items, but stayed with link or knuckle types, and mostly 3 digit ones. I do have some 5 digit train items. Here's one that's not too common. Cookie Box Walking brakeman.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Quote -I have a "thing" for this pair. At last count I believe I have around 10 pairs, and even more 944 singles.
> 
> flyernut, I have at least 2 of this pair. I also have a 5 digit crane. I like the pair also. I think many sets came with the pair.
> 
> 
> yd328, great looking flat car load. I really like the AF flat cars. Need more. Wanting to get a few of the American Flyer
> semi trailers to put on some flats.


I have the 3 variations of the 5 digit crane car, 24534, 24561, and 24569...1 of those is still in the box with the plastic window.


----------



## AmFlyer

The 25049 is not common. It is listed as a 4 in the rarity guide and in fact is the example used for that classification. I have never before seen one in that condition. Treat it well!


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> The 25049 is not common. It is listed as a 4 in the rarity guide and in fact is the example used for that classification. I have never before seen one in that condition. Treat it well!


Thanks. The only reason that I bought it was due to the condition. I don't know if "Smitty" is original or a repro. I'm sure there's a way to tell, but that doesn't bother me. It's always fun to see something at a show that your not thinking about and buy it while its right in front of you, or miss the chance maybe ever again.


----------



## AmFlyer

For today’s contribution I have two pictures of the hard to find 1952 342 with 5 wire, 3 spring tender trucks and red glowing smoke. I acquired this in June of 1988.


----------



## mopac

Nice 342 Tom. Very nice. 5 wire 1952 would be hard to find.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Such as it is...:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

I have had and used a personal computer since 1982. At one time I was proficient but now I struggle with most things! I will continue to work on flipping the image but for now I am giving up. Sorry!


----------



## mopac

Love the 282. Nice locomotive. Broke, I have posted upside down pics before and somehow someone else flipped it for me. No idea how to do it. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.


----------



## sid

fixed it for ya


----------



## mopac

Good job Sid. I tried but don't know how.

LOL, it looks a lot better now.

Nice group of accessories Broke. I don't have any really. I think I am getting a water tower.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Thanks Sid! I use to be able to do that but my memory is taking the last train out of town...


----------



## Lee Willis

Cool.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Love the 282. Nice locomotive. Broke, I have posted upside down pics before and somehow someone else flipped it for me. No idea how to do it. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.


The 282 is my best runner and smoker.


----------



## mopac

I have 2 northerns. This is my 336. Bought this from Marty's Trains in NY. Paid a bit much but it is nice. Good runner weak smoker. Not sure what year it is. I have not had the shell off. 1953 or later, its a 5 wire and glowing smoke stack. Good paint and lettering.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Nice one Mopac! My Northern is a shelf queen. I have only ran it once. Maybe tomorrow I will post a photo.


----------



## mopac

Broke, its a shelf queen because you took it apart. Put the chassis and motor parts in a box and send to flyernut. It will run like a new one when he ships it back. He has tenders so no need to send tender unless you want him to go through that also.
I put a new harness on my 336. The old one was too fuzzy for me. And I took the speaker and capacitor out of tender. It was in my way adding new harness. I kept the parts in a small box.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Broke, its a shelf queen because you took it apart. Put the chassis and motor parts in a box and send to flyernut. It will run like a new one when he ships it back.


So true, so true. I put a S-N-S can motor and a Dalee unit in it but I think I would like it original better. It came with the large motor. I am going to get it off of the shelf today and play some more. We will see...hwell: FlyerNut is the best!


----------



## flyernut

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> So true, so true.  I put a S-N-S can motor and a Dalee unit in it but I think I would like it original better. It came with the large motor. I am going to get it off of the shelf today and play some more. We will see...hwell: FlyerNut is the best!


Stop it,lol!! My head is getting so big I can't get it through my t-shirt hole!!!.. I will look at it though, send it out...


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

flyernut said:


> Stop it,lol!! My head is getting so big I can't get it through my t-shirt hole!!!.. I will look at it though, send it out...


Not all have your skills. But I don't want you to have to buy newt-shirts!:laugh: So I will try to restrain myself.


----------



## mopac

flyernut, once you have run a locomotive you have done your magic on it is hard not to say something. Fact is fact. Don't be so good and things like that will not be said. LOL. Buy larger T-shirts. Or get button down shirts.


----------



## cramden

Great pictures guys. It's nice to see what others have to share. Interesting 342 Tom, I wasn't aware of a 5 wire 342. Do you know the date stamp? Here's my 370 from 1950. I have the wrapper and the box but they are packed away. A lot of my trains I display, so their boxes get put in storage containers and banished to the attic.


----------



## AmFlyer

I like the 370's. One of my two original sets is the 5112T with the 370.
Cramden, all the 342's like the one I posted yesterday were made in 1952. I have not taken the shell off to see the exact month of production. Not very many of these were made. My box storage routine is the opposite of yours. I keep the boxes for everything operating on the layout under the layout. All the rest are stored in the attic or in racks under the garage ceiling.


----------



## yd328

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Such as it is...:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Nice Broke, I see a lot of accessories in the back ground.:smokin:

Gary


----------



## yd328

mopac said:


> View attachment 503932
> 
> 
> I have 2 northerns. This is my 336. Bought this from Marty's Trains in NY. Paid a bit much but it is nice. Good runner weak smoker. Not sure what year it is. I have not had the shell off. 1953 or later, its a 5 wire and glowing smoke stack. Good paint and lettering.


Nice 336, I saw one at a show this winter. Kick myself for not grabbing it. It's next on the loco list.

Gary


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

yd328 said:


> Nice Broke, I see a lot of accessories in the back ground.:smokin:
> 
> Gary


Thanks Gary! It takes me back to the 1940's and 50'6. Stuff that I wanted as a kid but couldn't have.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## AFGP9

*Chuck7612*

Great photo and great looking engine and lay out what I can see of it.


----------



## AFGP9

*Royal Blue*

I have a Royal Blue engine and tender as well. I have had this engine for years and it runs fine. However, it has a problem. On the top of the engine on the raised portion there is a quarter sized chip in the casting. I bought it his way because it was cheap. I have ran it on my layout as is from time to time. Now I want to fix the damage. I know how to fix the the chip but don't know where to get the proper paint. 
Anybody got any ideas or recommendations? I've checked Menard's for a spray can but nothing looked satisfactory for a color match. The rest of the paint on the engine is pretty nice.


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking Royal Blue Cramden.


----------



## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> I have a Royal Blue engine and tender as well. I have had this engine for years and it runs fine. However, it has a problem. On the top of the engine on the raised portion there is a quarter sized chip in the casting. I bought it his way because it was cheap. I have ran it on my layout as is from time to time. Now I want to fix the damage. I know how to fix the the chip but don't know where to get the proper paint.
> Anybody got any ideas or recommendations? I've checked Menard's for a spray can but nothing looked satisfactory for a color match. The rest of the paint on the engine is pretty nice.


Secor hardware has a almost perfect match for the Royal Blue, in fact I think it's called Royal Blue.. Also Rustoleum has a nice Royal Blue, same name.


----------



## Kelpieflyer

I use the airbrush version that Portlines sells. I've had too many problems with rattle cans - must be the operator and not the cans though.


----------



## mopac

Here is another one of my Lionel/American Flyer sets. Nice looking train. This one has can motors so it runs a little better than the open frame motors. No B unit for this one, one wasn't made. Made in 1989.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice passenger set.


----------



## Guest

Gorgeous C&O's.

Gary.


----------



## cramden

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Thanks Gary! It takes me back to the 1940's and 50'6. Stuff that I wanted as a kid but couldn't have.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Similar story Fred,the only accessory Dad bought when we were kids was a 761 semaphore. He never did figure it out as I remember. I think they add to the overall feel of a fifties layout.


----------



## cramden

AFGP9 said:


> Great looking Royal Blue Cramden.[/QUOTE Thanks, I've had a few over the years, but this one was the nicest so I kept it.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> View attachment 504034
> 
> 
> Here is another one of my Lionel/American Flyer sets. Nice looking train. This one has can motors so it runs a little better than the open frame motors. No B unit for this one, one wasn't made. Made in 1989.


Nice looking set mopac. I don't have any of the Flyonel passenger sets. They should have made a "B" unit, I think they would have sold well.


----------



## cramden

Here's a couple of pics. of a 313 K-5 with the large motor. It's part of set #5650TBW. You can see the cars of the set on the bottom shelf.














The top of the tender ladder is broken off, but I generally leave things as I bought them unless its needed to get it running.


----------



## AmFlyer

Great looking engine Cramden. When you post these pictures it is obvious you have a clean looking layout in a great train room. Nice to see those Gilbert accessories on the layout. It is also obvious you do not live in earthquake country with those trains on unprotected shelves. I would not dare do that here in SoCal.


----------



## mopac

Very nice 313 cramden. Yes a B unit would be nice. The B units is where the railsounds 
are for these fly/onel sets. Might have to get another B unit with railsounds and custom paint it.
The other 3 sets have their B units. I have showed the Southern Pacific and now the C&O. I also
have Missouri Pacific and Union Pacific. It is neat to let them sit in neutral and let the motor idle.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> Very nice 313 cramden. Yes a B unit would be nice. The B units is where the railsounds
> are for these fly/onel sets. Might have to get another B unit with railsounds and custom paint it.
> The other 3 sets have their B units. I have showed the Southern Pacific and now the C&O. I also
> have Missouri Pacific and Union Pacific. It is neat to let them sit in neutral and let the motor idle.


Thanks mopac and Tom. No earthquakes, the layout has not seen much activity lately. Still not satisfied with the look of the layout so far. Might take the Plasticville off and make room for some sidings. Lots of operating cars and such I'd like to have space for. Mopac, only one 492 N.P. dummy PA with diesel roar. Its doesn't sound too bad for fifties technology, but gets annoying after a while. The dummy PA doesn't have a shut off lever like the B units do, so sits it on the shelf most of the time.


----------



## AFGP9

cramden, great looking 313! Mine looks no where near that nice. Another project for some day.


----------



## AFGP9

Flyernut thanks for the paint information. Although we don't have a Secor store around here, the Rustoleum Royal Blue should be easy to find.


----------



## mopac

My 977 action caboose. Rubber little man. Nice condition. Ebay purchase. Works real good but has a popping sound when running. It sound like electrical popping. Little man backs to rear door when moving. When train stops little man moves out to side of caboose. I think I need a bay window action caboose.


----------



## AmFlyer

That caboose looks to be in perfect condition. My similar 977 has the metal man, the rubber man looks nicer.
So you need a bay window action caboose? There is the hard to find tuscan 979 and the much harder to find 27052 silver.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> View attachment 504210
> 
> 
> My 977 action caboose. Rubber little man. Nice condition. Ebay purchase. Works real good but has a popping sound when running. It sound like electrical popping. Little man backs to rear door when moving. When train stops little man moves out to side of caboose. I think I need a bay window action caboose.


I have one also. It is always on my consists when I run trains. I also have a Brakeman on the boxcar that I like but it has knuckle couplers and I generally run link couplers. Any way some very nice photos!


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is my contribution for the remainder of the week. It is for those who like the NH RR. I planned to post the Gilbert NH engines but that turned out to be not possible right now. Since these four American Models engines NH are on my layout I posed them at the roundhouse. Do not mind the other engines. It is also a reminder that we do have some diverse choices in S gauge engines for our layouts.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Very nice AmFlyer! I would like to see a video of your layout including the running of the turntable.:thumbsup:


----------



## cramden

Great looking engine house and turntable Tom. I think had I got involved with AM or SHS, I would have ended up in the poor house. They do make lots of alternatives to Gilbert and it is tempting at times.


----------



## cramden

Very nice 977 mopac. I think Portlines has a clinic on installing a resistor to quiet the buzzing noise. They are a little tricky to get apart and I've not done it to mine. Here is a pair of boxed 977 Cabooses, one with a metal man and one with a rubber man. I have a few more but all are the metal man type.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice Cramden. Now I see why you want to add a bay window version (or two.)
Fred, if you want to see a video of my layout go to smarttinc.com, then Gallery, Personal, then larger scales. The mosaic of layouts has mine in the upper left corner, the S scale. The videos were made at the builders shop just before disassembly for delivery, it was about 90% complete. Sorry, the TT is not used in the video. Drive over from Utah and you can run it in person!


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Nice Cramden. Now I see why you want to add a bay window version (or two.)
> Fred, if you want to see a video of my layout go to smarttinc.com, then Gallery, Personal, then larger scales. The mosaic of layouts has mine in the upper left corner, the S scale. The videos were made at the builders shop just before disassembly for delivery, it was about 90% complete. Sorry, the TT is not used in the video. Drive over from Utah and you can run it in person!


A bay window would be nice, the only one I have is a 935. The operating ones are usually up there in price. Maybe if the right one comes along. I believe your layout video is on YouTube, it sure looks like yours from pics you have posted, but I wouldn't want to post a link without your permission. I value my privacy and also yours. As usual, the video found me while looking at layouts on line. The gentleman who posted it might be the builder,(Rothman) If you want, I'll post a link.


----------



## AmFlyer

He is an employee of the builder. The better link and video is at the smarttinc.com site I posted above.


----------



## cramden

That's the shorter version on YouTube. There is a longer version too, but your link is better in my opinion since it has a large number of pics that make it easier to get a better overall feel for the layout. Simply stunning. :appl::appl::appl: I would probably never leave the room and order meals in. On second thought, my wife might actually enjoy that.:laugh:


----------



## AmFlyer

There is plenty of room under the layout for a nice blowup bed!


----------



## mopac

Tom, your round house is nice. Love the interior lighting.


----------



## mopac

cramden, nice 977s.


----------



## mopac

This is a Lionel S scale station I bought new off ebay. I painted the roof black. LOL, I didn't have any brown paint.


Not sure what that circle is over the door. Maybe a finger print on lens. I have since cleaned the lens and took another pic and circle not there.


----------



## mopac

This what the station looked like out of the box. Too much green for me so I painted the roof.


----------



## Panther

Changing the color of the roof seems to have enhanced it quite well.

Dan


----------



## mopac

Thanks Dan, I am happy with it. It was an easy fix. The roof is removable so that
the light bulb can be replaced. The chimney was removable also. So no masking needed.

I started out wanting a mystic station, I think it is called. I could not find one in great condition and that
did not need the windows replaced, at a decent price. This one was 20 some dollars.


----------



## flyernut

303 I'm working on. Runs like new, and the smoke you see is the original smoke wick, etc.


----------



## mopac

Looking like new also. Smokes great. I see it has pulmor wheels on the front. Out of my 20 steamers very few, maybe 2 or 3 have pulmor. I think pulmor wheels are great and they really help to pull more cars. My 282 will spin its drivers with more than 2 or 3 cars.
Bummer.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> View attachment 504294
> 
> 
> 
> This is a Lionel S scale station I bought new off ebay. I painted the roof black. LOL, I didn't have any brown paint.
> 
> 
> Not sure what that circle is over the door. Maybe a finger print on lens. I have since cleaned the lens and took another pic and circle not there.


I like it with the black roof. Neat station.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> Looking like new also. Smokes great. I see it has pulmor wheels on the front. Out of my 20 steamers very few, maybe 2 or 3 have pulmor. I think pulmor wheels are great and they really help to pull more cars. My 282 will spin its drivers with more than 2 or 3 cars.
> Bummer.


I had some clear, thin double sided tape, so I cut a 4 1/2" strip and stuck it to some wax paper. Then i cut it with scissors to the proper width and wrapped it around the center wheels of my 312. Seems to do the job. I've not noticed any wheel slippage, despite some fairly worn wheels. These center wheels have no flanges though.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Looking like new also. Smokes great. I see it has pulmor wheels on the front. Out of my 20 steamers very few, maybe 2 or 3 have pulmor. I think pulmor wheels are great and they really help to pull more cars. My 282 will spin its drivers with more than 2 or 3 cars.
> Bummer.


And those tires are like new.


----------



## mopac

I hope Jeff Kane has some replacement tires. I have a 312 K5 locomotive I bought cheap.
I think it was $34.00 but of coarse has issues. The tires are dry rotten and have cracks.
Its not a runner so have not run it. The tires might still work and they might not. I would like to replace them. I don't ever see replacement tires so maybe there aren't any.

I think a 303 would be a nice locomotive to have. Its got it all. Smoke, choo choo, pulmor.


----------



## mopac

This is my other northern. 332AC. All original. Extremely nice paint and lettering. As my 336, I paid the load for this one. I was not disappointed when I unpacked it from shipping box. Worth the money to me. Runs great. The only disappointment on both my northerns is no pulmor tires. Maybe some day I can change out the wheels. Maybe I will get one more northern, a K335.

This came from a train store in Texas. They bought a very large collection and this was one of the collection.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice engine. These pull pretty well, it should handle four of the heavyweight passenger cars plus a baggage or mail car with ease. None of the 332AC engines had PulMor nor did any of the K335's. All 336 Northerns were supposed to have PulMor, it is strange yours does not.


----------



## mopac

cramden thought the 336 should have pulmor then he found out there was some without.
Just my luck. Maybe cramden will see this and enlighten us on 336 pulmor. I forget what he said.

I have pulled 4 passenger cars plus a baggage car from the repro Pony Express set I have. Makes a nice train.


----------



## mopac

Here is my 336 with some repro UP passenger cars. Not a great pic but one I have.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

:laugh::laugh::laugh:Nice 336 Al! Here is my latest for the day! But of course it is on the ceiling. Some day I will remember how to post it so it is not upside down.:smilie_daumenpos::laugh::laugh:


----------



## mopac

Broke, I am not standing on my head to view that pic. Where is Sid when we need him?
Just kidding Broke. Nice view of your layout.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

one more try...


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

I give up. I rotated it on my desktop but when I post it it is still the same.:dunno:


----------



## AmFlyer

Fred, I have no idea what you are doing to embed these pictures up side down. However when I click on the picture in the first post to expand it the picture shows right side up in the high resolution expanded mode. The picture in the second post stays up side down.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

AmFlyer said:


> Fred, I have no idea what you are doing to embed these pictures up side down. However when I click on the picture in the first post to expand it the picture shows right side up in the high resolution expanded mode. The picture in the second post stays up side down.


I have used a PC since 1982 when I first bought a Timex Sinclair, then a IBM PC with floppy's(no mass hard storage) and a series of improved and upgrades IBM PC's and AT's. I started with DOS 1.0 and migrated to all of the Windows operations systems iterations to Win 10. During my career I bought millions of dollars of PC's and Mini Frames (IBM Series One). I was somewhat proficient with operating and configuration. But, I am now having trouble with even the most basic things.
Thanks all for your patience as I bumble along.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## MichaelE

The board software cannot read the meta data embedded into the photos. If you turn them right side up on your home computer make certain you save them in that position.

Windows photo viewer will not save a rotated picture unless you advance to the next photo. You will see Windows saving it then.

If you use PS you must also save it, but PS is usually able to read meta data and right the photo itself.


----------



## sid

there fixed it for ya


----------



## mopac

Thanks sid. I knew you could fix it. Don't go to far away. LOL.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Thanks sid. I knew you could fix it. Don't go to far away. LOL.


Yes for sure Sid! Thanks!


----------



## cramden

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I give up. I rotated it on my desktop but when I post it it is still the same.:dunno:


Just a thought Fred, try to outsmart the PC. by posting the pic. upside down intentionally. Maybe it will show up the right way.  Wish I could help, but sid seems to know how to fix it.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

cramden said:


> Just a thought Fred, try to outsmart the PC. by posting the pic. upside down intentionally. Maybe it will show up the right way.  Wish I could help, but sid seems to know how to fix it.


I did that with the second posting but the machine ate my lunch anyways.:smilie_auslachen:


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> cramden thought the 336 should have pulmor then he found out there was some without.
> Just my luck. Maybe cramden will see this and enlighten us on 336 pulmor. I forget what he said.
> 
> I have pulled 4 passenger cars plus a baggage car from the repro Pony Express set I have. Makes a nice train.


Nice pair of Northern's mopac. I always thought the 336 had Pul-mor until you posted yours when you purchased it. In Greenberg's vol.#1, motive power and rolling stock, they do list a non Pul-mor 336, (variation E.) I can only guess that there are enough examples of it to include it. I was also told that all 336's came with the large motor, but there are photos on line showing small motor ones and Greenberg lists this variation as well. Who knows, but you can only go by what has been reported over the years.


----------



## cramden

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I did that with the second posting but the machine ate my lunch anyways.:smilie_auslachen:


Sorry Fred. Next time, cuss at it and whack it with a big stick!
At least you might feel better, I know I do.:laugh:


----------



## cramden

*Back to the photos*

I've posted this 282 from the set 5322T I completed.






Here's another 282 from the freight set 5323T that I found in an antique store years ago.






Both are 1953 5 wire, but one has the large cab #'s and the other the small cab #'s. These two sets were the best of the link coupler catalogued sets offered in 1953.


----------



## AmFlyer

Amazing you found those in antique stores.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Amazing you found those in antique stores.


 Only the freight set, the passenger set I had 2 cars and found the set at choochoo auctions. Now I have a couple of extra cars. No set box for either one but all the individual boxes and wrap for the passenger set and most of the freight set car boxes.You would be surprised at what can be found in antique stores, but most of it is high priced and in poor condition.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, that was my experience the times I looked through antique stores. Fair to poor condition and overpriced.


----------



## cramden

It's the only set that I found while wandering with the better half looking at stuff. A nice bonus to the freight set is the uncommon 630 American Flyer Lines caboose.


----------



## mopac

And a nice one cramden.


----------



## shaker281

cramden said:


> Very nice 977 mopac. I think Portlines has a clinic on installing a resistor to quiet the buzzing noise. They are a little tricky to get apart and I've not done it to mine. Here is a pair of boxed 977 Cabooses, one with a metal man and one with a rubber man. I have a few more but all are the metal man type.
> View attachment 504262


I checked Port Lines and did not see a clinic on the buzzing/resistor. Does anyone have any info on this? I am definitely curious. It would be a nice improvement on my 979 bay window. They do buzz a lot. Worse than diesel roar! LOL


----------



## AmFlyer

I would think the only way to eliminate the buzzing without simply disconnecting the feature is to run it on DC. You could try a single diode in series with the coil and see if it works. If not a cheap bridge rectifier should do it.


----------



## mopac

I don't notice a buzzing in my 977 caboose. My noise is a popping sound. A lot like popcorn popping. Not as fast. I hear the shells are not easy to remove but that's what I need to do and see what is popping. LOL, I may notice a buzzing if I get rid of popping sound. The little man works as it should.

My popping sounds like an electrical arching. I have thought about just removing one of the power wires. The little man would not move, but unless you are focusing on the little man you would never notice.


----------



## mopac

cramden, I forgot to comment on your 313 with large motor. Very cool. On ebay, those K5s go for all the money with a large motor. I am talking around $200.00.


----------



## AmFlyer

Many of the moving man cabooses and observation cars buzz, some softly, some loud. Its the nature of a solenoid operating from an AC power source.
Agree with Mopac, large motor 313's are special.


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## AmFlyer

Here is my AFL painted caboose on a layout. Cramden’s has stronger lettering but note these are two different variations. Cramden’s has the sloped M lettering, mine has the vertical M lettering.


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## mopac

Nice shot Tom.

I looked at my inventory list and I show I have 3 630s. But I think all mine are Reading.
I guess these are the common versions. 2 are link and 1 knuckle. I guess the knuckle has
been converted. List shows I have 20 AF cabooses. Including 2 yellow ones. The Tuscan ones
are my favorite.


----------



## cramden

shaker281 said:


> I checked Port Lines and did not see a clinic on the buzzing/resistor. Does anyone have any info on this? I am definitely curious. It would be a nice improvement on my 979 bay window. They do buzz a lot. Worse than diesel roar! LOL


Still looking for the article about this fix, not sure now if it was on line or in a magazine now that it isn't on PortLines web site. I said a resister, but as Tom said it was most likely a diode in series with the solenoid. I'll keep looking and see if I can find it.
Nice "Gabe" shaker, maybe it was MTH, not Lionel's that uses a circuit board. O for 2 on helping out so far.


----------



## cramden

Nice 630 Tom. One could spend a lot of time trying to collect all of the caboose variations. Thanks mopac. With smaller layouts I really don't notice the difference in performance between the large and small motors on any of the steamers. The Pulmor is more of a factor than motor size. There could be a noticeable difference on larger layouts where many more cars can be pulled and where the larger motor would make a difference.


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## AmFlyer

The 630 with red celluloid plastic body and either black die cast or black sheet metal frames are common. The early plastic frames are less common as is silver lettering. 
Also less common are painted Reading 630’s. Here is one on an old layout. Sorry about the fuzzy picture.


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## cramden

I don't have any early 630's with the plastic frame. A few with the die cast frame as I recall, and maybe 2 painted ones. I always look for the painted ones at shows since the plastic ones glow red whereas the painted ones don't show the light thru the plastic. Tough to find at times. Nit picking, but that's just my preference. I also like to put a lighted caboose on the sets that didn't come that way. Just looks better, IMO.


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## AmFlyer

I agree, the caboose must have a light when running on the layout!


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## AmFlyer

There is one more version of a red painted 630 caboose. It has just American Flyer on the side. Unfortunately I do not have a picture of mine to post right now. I like the painted cabooses as well but it is hard to find painted 630's in excellent or better condition.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> There is one more version of a red painted 630 caboose. It has just American Flyer on the side. Unfortunately I do not have a picture of mine to post right now. I like the painted cabooses as well but it is hard to find painted 630's in excellent or better condition.


The 630 American Flyer is one I don't have. Wasn't aware of it until looking for something else in one of my books and noticed it. I did find a painted 930 "American Flyer" years ago.


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## cramden

Here's my photo of the day. I'm not sure how this survived all the years without a box. A 20477 Northern Pacific "Pig Palace" with knuckle couplers.


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## AmFlyer

Great car!


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## mopac

Nice Pig Palace cramden. I do not have one. Seldom see them.
This is a pic of the other 1948 302 I got from flyernut. Nice original paint. Not perfect but pretty good. Of coarse it runs great. Love the high mounted headlight.


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## AmFlyer

MoPac, too bad you cannot make a really big loop of track using that wall and the area behind it. Some GarGraves stainless flex would be just the thing for some large summer operations.


----------



## cramden

Thanks mopac and Tom. That's a nice 4 piece 302. They are the best looking Atlantics that Gilbert made and with flyernut's work, they'll be running long after we are gone.


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## mopac

Tom, I have thought it would be neat to do what you said. A long straight down the wall would be awesome. The wall is 130 feet long. It slopes at the ends so maybe 110 feet. Maybe 100 feet.
Sure would hate for one to drop off. Top of wall is 5 1/2 feet high above patio.
I would not have to scenic it at all. A loop behind the wall would do it.

The wall was my wife's idea. a $30,000.00 idea. She was sick with cancer and I could not tell her NO. We had 2 other bids
and they were both double that.

Building the wall is easy, after digging the hill side out and getting that first layer flat and level. Had to get a permit for the wall. Anything over 36" high needs a building permit. They are strict around here. Its got 6 feet wide of gravel behind it. Required.


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## AmFlyer

It is a very nice wall. As the owner of several retaining walls I am familiar with what you say. Mine are not nice long flat surfaces like you have. If that were mine I think I would have already had the contractor prepare the ground for a double track loop.


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## mopac

Thanks Tom. It is not even real stone. I sometimes wish I had checked out real stone but it would not have been this flat. Its made with cement blocks with stone like face on each block. The blocks weigh 75 lbs each. They interlock with each other. Its not going anywhere. Its almost 7 years old now and I can not tell it has moved anywhere. Contractor did a good job of getting it level. When he gave me the bid he said it would take a full week to build. I think to justify the price. It took him 2 1/2 days. I felt jipped.
LOL.


----------



## shaker281

cramden said:


> Still looking for the article about this fix, not sure now if it was on line or in a magazine now that it isn't on PortLines web site. I said a resister, but as Tom said it was most likely a diode in series with the solenoid. I'll keep looking and see if I can find it.
> Nice "Gabe" shaker, maybe it was MTH, not Lionel's that uses a circuit board. O for 2 on helping out so far.


Actually I appreciate that you brought up both topics. It has led to learning a few things and a thread with the information I was seeking. Thanks.


----------



## mopac

My 2 Whistle Billboards. Both the same. Both nice condition.
Both came with decent boxes. They sound ok. Certainly better
than a tender whistle. I have gone through both of them and they work as good as they could.
I might get a different picture to put in billboard just so they would be different.
Hard to beat a picture of an AF northern though.
AF should have lighted these. No light.
I might try adding LED lighting.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> View attachment 504738
> 
> 
> My 2 Whistle Billboards. Both the same. Both nice condition.
> Both came with decent boxes. They sound ok. Certainly better
> than a tender whistle. I have gone through both of them and they work as good as they could.
> I might get a different picture to put in billboard just so they would be different.
> Hard to beat a picture of an AF northern though.
> AF should have lighted these. No light.
> I might try adding LED lighting.


Hey Mopac! Don't you think it is time for a AF Layout?:laugh::laugh::laugh: Very nice billboards!


----------



## mopac

Broke, always seems like something else comes up. My mom died almost 3 months ago and I have been helping to get her house ready to sell and then getting the sale. House sale was closed july 29. So that is done. Got to get my yard back in shape. I have an acre yard. Should just take a couple days to mow and trim. I have lots of trees and they have dropped a lot of branches. So they all need to be picked up and burned. I still need to finish the living room flooring and new bannister. I never really run out of work around here and I am not the quickest. I get tired easily. The layout is on the list of things to do. I think about it a lot but that does not get it done.
I have had 2 heart attacks so I don't push myself too much. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it. I think I have had more than 2 heart attacks but 2 of them put me in the hospital. I have lost count of how many stents I have. Then there is the 2 anerysums I have had patched.

Thanks on the billboards. They are nice. They have plastic bases. The older ones were metal. I do not know what year these are from. In some ways I like the look of the plastic bases better.


----------



## cramden

Nice pair of billboards mopac. They are #568 from 1956. You can put one at each end of the layout. Sorry for the loss of your Mom. Mine passed 3 years ago and I went thru some similar things as executor of her estate. Late, but here is my pic. for today. A 732 operating baggage car.


----------



## mopac

Thanks cramden. Very nice baggage car. I need to get some of the red cars and some green cars. LOL, and some silver ones, oh and some aluminum cars. Never ends does it.

I thought about a billboard at each end of layout and maybe wire both of them to one button. Might sound pretty good. Stereo.


----------



## AmFlyer

Another really nice original action car.


----------



## shaker281

Sorry to hear of your recent loss mo-pac. And the stress of dealing with the estate, etc.
My dad passed away last October and the 1957 Santa Fe Chief that I just finished restoring was bought by him upon learning that my mom was pregnant with me. I think he bought it in late 1958 as NOS. I wish I had restored it a few years ago, so that he could have seen it run again. He also bought me the 1948 Pacific Freight set from a garage sale when I was about 10. 

I shall take a pic or two soon and try to contribute to this thread somewhat, though I do not have the extensive collection that some of you do. I might have an item or two of interest.


----------



## mopac

I have 2 yellow cabooses. 24632 and 24626.

Shaker, all pics are of interest to me. You can certainly show pics more than once.


----------



## shaker281

Thanks mo-pac. You certainly have some very nice cabooses! Don't take that the wrong way, haha.

Most of my stuff is fairly ordinary and my collection is not large. But here is something a bit off the beaten track. A C2001 Post Hayjector with a couple hay bales. I do have the track trip for it.


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## mopac

Cool and looks to be in fine condition. I do not have any action box cars.
I don't see the post cereal car much.

I like cabooses, have 20 of them, none rare. There are many AF cabooses.


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## cramden

Nice items mopac and shaker281. Share what you have. Nice that you have the trip for the action car. They are often missing from the car.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

The lighting could be better but there was no sun light coming into the garage today. Cloudy and hot!!!


----------



## AmFlyer

I see few yellow cabooses, nice to see a picture of two together. I also rarely see that Post Cereals action box car. Take care not to damage a Pikemaster coupler, they break easily. Broke, the layout came together nicely, I am also impressed your garage looks well organized.


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## cramden

Nice 322ac Fred. Do you have 2 cow on the track accessories? I see 2 control buttons. Somebody better close the gate on the pen!


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

cramden said:


> Nice 322ac Fred. Do you have 2 cow on the track accessories? I see 2 control buttons. Somebody better close the gate on the pen!


Yes but one isn't a cow. I will post a photo later so that you can see it.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Broke, always seems like something else comes up. My mom died almost 3 months ago and I have been helping to get her house ready to sell and then getting the sale. House sale was closed july 29. So that is done. Got to get my yard back in shape. I have an acre yard. Should just take a couple days to mow and trim. I have lots of trees and they have dropped a lot of branches. So they all need to be picked up and burned. I still need to finish the living room flooring and new bannister. I never really run out of work around here and I am not the quickest. I get tired easily. The layout is on the list of things to do. I think about it a lot but that does not get it done.
> I have had 2 heart attacks so I don't push myself too much. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it. I think I have had more than 2 heart attacks but 2 of them put me in the hospital. I have lost count of how many stents I have. Then there is the 2 anerysums I have had patched.
> 
> Thanks on the billboards. They are nice. They have plastic bases. The older ones were metal. I do not know what year these are from. In some ways I like the look of the plastic bases better.


Sorry for your losses Al! Although we have never met, I count you as a friend and wish you well no mater what you do! It is tough getting old. The body doesn't do what the mind thinks it can. We learn to pace ourselves better than before. I like the billboards!


----------



## mopac

Thanks Broke. Hey, very nice looking 322AC. Every AF collector needs a Hudson. They are nice engines. I agree, we need to watch the pace. I see my cardiologist twice a year. He does a scan and says see ya in 6 months. Guess what, he does not like me smoking. He says Al one of these days you are just going to drop dead. One day we all will be dead. Just dropping dead sounds like an easy way to go. I do not want to linger and suffer. Took my wife 4 years to die and she suffered. I do not like pain or being sick for a long time.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Yes but one isn't a cow. I will post a photo later so that you can see it.


T Rex on the track


----------



## cramden

Cool Fred. Lots more fun than an old bossy wandering onto the track. Bet that will get the engineer's attention!


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## mopac

I like the T Rex. Your billboard looks just like mine. Got the front yard mowed. I guess I let it get a bit high. There are clumps of cut grass. I will let it dry a couple hours and then run back over it and spread the clumps out.

Broke, don't try to milk the T Rex. Did you build a new layout. That does not look like a ping pong table.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mowing the lawn, Ugh! Five years ago all grass was banished from our property. Now it is either cactus/succulents in gravel beds or concrete!
For sure, if that is a ping pong table it is sure an unusual one. The trackwork looks perfect.


----------



## AmFlyer

This is one of the Lionel FlyerChief NYC Northerns. They look almost identical to the Gilbert versions. This one is unique in that the FlyerChief system was removed and it was converted to run on the Legacy system with Railsounds. The fan driven smoke unit is the original Lionel unit. They smoke well, the engine was moving slowly around 15 to 20 SMPH.
Note the photographer (me) instinctively centered the smoke stack rather that the entire engine in the picture. An obvious need for retraining.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

It is my same old ping pong table. With a bunch of additions.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> This is one of the Lionel FlyerChief NYC Northerns. They look almost identical to the Gilbert versions. This one is unique in that the FlyerChief system was removed and it was converted to run on the Legacy system with Railsounds. The fan driven smoke unit is the original Lionel unit. They smoke well, the engine was moving slowly around 15 to 20 SMPH.
> Note the photographer (me) instinctively centered the smoke stack rather that the entire engine in the picture. An obvious need for retraining.
> 
> View attachment 504970


Nah, just let it go around again and get the tender this time.


----------



## cramden

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> It is my same old ping pong table. With a bunch of additions.


Looks good Fred. I better get busy with mine. Did you put an edge guard around the table? It really finishes the top.


----------



## cramden

This is a 466 Comet with the heat-stamped letters vs. the decal. I do have the 3 blue striped cars that go with the set.


----------



## AmFlyer

The heat stamped lettering looks better than the decals 60 years on. Cramden, you may have missed my marginal attempt at a pun with the "retraining."


----------



## mopac

Man, that 466 looks great, also the lettering. I guess I am nervous to get an original PA set. I hear they are finicky. My guru told me that. LOL.

Broke, your table looks nice with the border, Good job.


----------



## flyernut

cramden said:


> This is a 466 Comet with the heat-stamped letters vs. the decal. I do have the 3 blue striped cars that go with the set.
> View attachment 504974


I have that same set, with 4 cars, and decals on the engine.. It runs great...I also have a dummy non-powered A unit.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Man, that 466 looks great, also the lettering. I guess I am nervous to get an original PA set. I hear they are finicky. My guru told me that. LOL.
> 
> Broke, your table looks nice with the border, Good job.


They are finicky buddy, you have to have patience!


----------



## shaker281

cramden said:


> Nice pair of billboards mopac. They are #568 from 1956. You can put one at each end of the layout. Sorry for the loss of your Mom. Mine passed 3 years ago and I went thru some similar things as executor of her estate. Late, but here is my pic. for today. A 732 operating baggage car.
> View attachment 504904


That is a nice one! I do have a thing for gadgets, hence I love the operating accessories.


----------



## shaker281

AmFlyer said:


> I see few yellow cabooses, nice to see a picture of two together. I also rarely see that Post Cereals action box car. Take care not to damage a Pikemaster coupler, they break easily. Broke, the layout came together nicely, I am also impressed your garage looks well organized.


Re: Pikemaster couplers - that's is almost certainly why my All-Aboard is missing a caboose! No doubt I broke it and threw away the car many years ago. 

I noticed the nice shelving in Broke's garage too and that fine looking 322.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> Man, that 466 looks great, also the lettering. I guess I am nervous to get an original PA set. I hear they are finicky. My guru told me that. LOL.
> 
> Broke, your table looks nice with the border, Good job.


Everything is smaller from armature to brushes, compared to my 312 at least. But If I could rebuild mine, which was never maintained and somewhat butchered, it can't be too bad. I did avoid taking apart the reverse unit, instead opting for a lot of contact cleaner and a shot of CRC 2-26. It is working good. A bit of delicate soldering if one opts to replace the finger boards. But if well-maintained they run as smooth as silk! I am looking for another very nice non-running set to rebuild. Maybe a red/silver Santa Fe.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Walking Boxcar Brakeman and Rubber Caboose Brakeman. I need to work on the walking brakeman as it buzzes a lot. Someday...


----------



## AmFlyer

Broke they are both nice cars. The walking brakeman will buzz because that is how the man moves back and forth. They can be less noisy but not silent like the 977 can be.


----------



## AmFlyer

For my picture contribution today I chose two cars on my layout. The one on the right is a current production American Models with free rolling trucks. These cars will start rolling on any track that is not level. The car on the left is not common. It was made and sold in the 70’s by Kris Model Trains. They bought 3000 leftover Gilbert shells and chassis from Hobby Surplus. New artwork was made for about 60 different roadnames and paint schemes. They were sold with either knuckle couplers or Pikemaster couplers. The one I have has a link coupler sheet metal chassis so someone must have changed it.
The paint quality and sharpness is much better than the Gilbert factory cars. Three of the pictures are with flash to get a sharper picture. The last one is without flash to show the colors more accurately, the flash tends to wash them out.


----------



## mopac

Nice cars Broke and Tom. Here is a couple of mine. A nice shell tanker and probably a 642 boxcar. Not a 642, maybe a 633.
A B&O box car. I looked on my inventory list and it is a 633. But
with knuckle coupler. Must be converted. Both cars are in nice condition.


----------



## mackerel

My first contribution is also my most recent addition. Lionel 671 6-8-6.

Sorry, looks like i posted this in the S-Scale forum. Well, hope you all enjoy a good O-Scale pic from time to time!


----------



## mopac

No problem. Nice looking locomotive. We like all scales. Well, at least I do. LOL.


----------



## mackerel

Cool, I was going to delete it but couldn't figure out how. Probably need to be a moderator.


----------



## AmFlyer

No problem Adam, we like trains. 
MoPac, that is a red 633 with correct link coupler trucks. The couplers were just changed. It is very hard to tell but it looks like a red painted version. Those are hard to find, especially in good shape. It has 2 spring trucks, if it is painted it is likely 1951 production, maybe 1952. Most red 633's were red plastic. All the brown/tuscan 633's are painted. The Black shell tank car is nice, it has the slotted trucks.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I may try to find the 633 tomorrow and see if it is painted or not. Thanks for the info.
In my inventory list I put what box each item is in. so should be easy to find.


----------



## Sagas

*Moe & Joe*

I happen to have two of these, both in the same condition. They fire the planks out quite far so you need a netted platform to catch them in. Need to apply a little heat to the wheels to get rid of the release agent residue. I realize I put the wrong remote with it. It should be "Lumber Car". J.B.


----------



## AmFlyer

Good, working 971's are not common. Nice car.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> No problem. Nice looking locomotive. We like all scales. Well, at least I do. LOL.


I like all of them too. Nice locomotive. I only stick with S gauge to minimize the financial carnage.


----------



## shaker281

AmFlyer said:


> For my picture contribution today I chose two cars on my layout. The one on the right is a current production American Models with free rolling trucks. These cars will start rolling on any track that is not level. The car on the left is not common. It was made and sold in the 70’s by Kris Model Trains. They bought 3000 leftover Gilbert shells and chassis from Hobby Surplus. New artwork was made for about 60 different roadnames and paint schemes. They were sold with either knuckle couplers or Pikemaster couplers. The one I have has a link coupler sheet metal chassis so someone must have changed it.
> The paint quality and sharpness is much better than the Gilbert factory cars. Three of the pictures are with flash to get a sharper picture. The last one is without flash to show the colors more accurately, the flash tends to wash them out.


That is really neat. Your posts are always educational. I continue to be staggered by the realism of your layout.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> View attachment 505050
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice cars Broke and Tom. Here is a couple of mine. A nice shell tanker and probably a 642 boxcar. Not a 642, maybe a 633.
> A B&O box car. I looked on my inventory list and it is a 633. But
> with knuckle coupler. Must be converted. Both cars are in nice condition.


i really like the tanker. Nice condition and detail.


----------



## shaker281

Sagas said:


> I happen to have two of these, both in the same condition. They fire the planks out quite far so you need a netted platform to catch them in. Need to apply a little heat to the wheels to get rid of the release agent residue. I realize I put the wrong remote with it. It should be "Lumber Car". J.B.


Boy, that's interesting. Love the action cars. "Firing" the planks out makes me laugh.


----------



## cramden

Nice pictures everyone. Fred, my Seaboard car buzzes much louder than my Cookie box does, I'll leave them alone. Mopac, I still don't have a black shell tank car. Tom, have you looked at the Kris section at http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/kris Don't remember seeing many at shows in the past, but have run across Downs cars but didn't buy any. Nice looking Moe and Joe car Sagas. All of the action cars are lots of fun. I think I have one, but my inventory control is out of control.


----------



## cramden

A couple of pics of an oddball 748 foot bridge. I bought this because it's paint stamped Mini-Toys under the walkway. All of the books I have state it was made by Colber for Gilbert. This one has the square box cut outs with the triangles so it matches one of the 2 variations. Haven't been able to find out much about it, but bought it because of the stamp underneath. Found in a box under a vendor's table and he didn't know anything about it. Unfortunately, no box for it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, I have looked at that site. A neat thing is we know how many were made, unlike with the original Gilbert items. They seem to not show up often. When I saw the Erie car on a vendor table I picked it up and paid him the asking price. I have never seen another one.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, great pictures, I have never seen that version. My original 748 is variation "C". What is interesting about yours in addition to the Minitoys stamp is the construction is different. The 748's sold by Gilbert have a "tongue" that sticks out each end of the top bridge to connect it to the stairs. Yours does not have these. Also yours has rivet details not present on the Gilbert version. This might be a piece unique to Minitoys, not the Colber version. Neat!


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Cramden, great pictures, I have never seen that version. My original 748 is variation "C". What is interesting about yours in addition to the Minitoys stamp is the construction is different. The 748's sold by Gilbert have a "tongue" that sticks out each end of the top bridge to connect it to the stairs. Yours does not have these. Also yours has rivet details not present on the Gilbert version. This might be a piece unique to Minitoys, not the Colber version. Neat!


It does have the tongues that slide into slots on the stairs, they just don't show up in the pics. And as aside, your "retraining" pun did go right over my head!


----------



## AmFlyer

Since I knew exactly where my original 748 was I took some pictures for comparison. This is the Variation C. I also took closeups of the stick on label and the tabs that secure the bridge.


----------



## cramden

Mine has the same tongue and slot construction as yours and fits together the same. One thing mine doesn't have is a hole in the footings to mount it securely. I don't remember seeing any Flyer ones without the hole. I'll see if I can post a few more pics.


----------



## cramden

Sorry about the lousy pics. Not the best photographer.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, I did a search on Minitoys footbridge using Bing. They came right up including pictures of the OB. The pictures that look like the footbridge you have are missing the rivet detail. Really interesting, thanks for posting all those pictures.


----------



## cramden

I'm still not sure what I have, not that its worth any more or less. Odd that some pics show Colber minitoys on the box and others don't. Still haven't seen a picture without the mounting holes in the pedestal like this one. Oh well, just an oddity or a worker forgot to punch the holes. Remembered this while digging the bridge out, another Minitoy item that I picked up long ago.














I think I paid $20 dollars for it a long time ago. Going back over some pics it looks like Colber might have made these for Minitoys as well as for Gilbert.


----------



## cramden

Just found this. This could be the answer. http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/minitoys/index.html


----------



## AmFlyer

That is one of the sites I found.


----------



## sid

hahaha i was wondering what that was . its a foot bridge hahahahahahah


----------



## mopac

Cool bridges and signs guys. I don't have either.


----------



## mopac

Here are some pics of my 290. Got it cheap from flyguy55. He told me it had bad paint flaking. Shame. Nice engine and it runs good. I thought I could live with the paint flaking. I have decided it needs to go to the paint shop. As you can see, the cab numbers are in great shape. I will try to save the cab numbers. AmFlyer told me about using Vaseline over the numbers when I paint it. I need to figure a way to feather the flaked areas. This locomotive was not handled rough. It is actually pretty nice. The paint just did not stick to the metal body. I might primer this one even if paint includes a primer.


----------



## Sagas

Personally, I would start from scratch (too much to touch-up), strip the shell and repaint. In my experience no matter how you try to feather the edges they always seem to ghost through on the repaint. However there are others here who may have a workable technique. J.B.


----------



## Sagas

*Set #5515T*

The set is complete except for the original carton which was damaged and thrown away by the original owner. It was also offered in the 54' catalogue as 5411T but with green New Haven cars. The Dinky Ford I just put there since it happened to be in the box (wondered what happened to it). J.B.


----------



## cramden

Sagas said:


> The set is complete except for the original carton which was damaged and thrown away by the original owner. It was also offered in the 54' catalogue as 5411T but with green New Haven cars. The Dinky Ford I just put there since it happened to be in the box (wondered what happened to it). J.B.


Great looking set. The 955 cars with the silhouettes are not common and not easy to find. The green cars didn't have silhouettes. It's always fun when you get a set and there are extras with it that the original owner had and kept with it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sagas, that is an absolutely beautiful set. However it is not a 5411T set; that set had a 287 engine w/o smoke and choo choo. It is also not a 5422T nor a 1954 version of the 5322T set. It is in fact a 5515T set. A complete boxed set would have the exact items you pictured plus a #1 1/2 transformer, a 706 uncoupler, 12 702 curve tracks, #40 smoke set, 12 track locks and a 690 track terminal.


----------



## mopac

Very nice set Sagas.

I was not going to try to touchup that 290. It needs a complete repaint.
Whats the best way to strip the shell. Sandblasted would be nice but you could never save the cab numbers.


----------



## Sagas

AmFlyer said:


> Sagas, that is an absolutely beautiful set. However it is not a 5411T set; that set had a 287 engine w/o smoke and choo choo. It is also not a 5422T nor a 1954 version of the 5322T set. It is in fact a 5515T set. A complete boxed set would have the exact items you pictured plus a #1 1/2 transformer, a 706 uncoupler, 12 702 curve tracks, #40 smoke set, 12 track locks and a 690 track terminal.


Tom, I do have the transformer, uncoupler, etc. Just didn't bother to put them out. Also didn't notice the 5411T had a 287 not a 283. Thanks, J.B.



mopac said:


> Very nice set Sagas.
> 
> I was not going to try to touchup that 290. It needs a complete repaint.
> Whats the best way to strip the shell. Sandblasted would be nice but you could never save the cab numbers.


Flyernut would most likely have the best advise since he seems to do a fair amount of repaints. There are also a few YouTube videos on the subject. I've never had to go that far, only some very minor touchups. J.B.


----------



## flyernut

I sandblast the boiler shell and use a chemical stripper, brake fluid, or easy off oven cleaner on the tender shell. The tender chassis can withstand sandblasting, and I do sandblast it.


----------



## AFGP9

*flyernut and others*

Sandblasting is certainly a good way to go but may I suggest using glass beads also? Looks just like white sand, does the same job but isn't as hard on metal as sand. I have used the glass beading method since my hot rod building days. In fact I have had the same blasting cabinet for years. I can regulate the air pressure so as to not damage softer metal. For whatever reason, the glass beading leaves the metal surface, well, glass smooth. In fact, it does something to the metal surface. I have left bare metal car items on my bench for days before painting and no sign of rust. Even in humid days. Since I am not a metallurgist, I have no idea why bare metal does not rust after glass beading. I have yet to find anything the glass beading method will not remove from metal.
And no painting isn't a problem with the surface being the way it is. Just prime and paint. Paint with primer in it works too.


----------



## mopac

A nice 940 Wabash hopper and caboose. I know, I know, hopper has 2 different trucks. Not sure what that is about, because I think it has knuckle couplers on both ends. Nice thing about the hoppers trucks are secured with screws and its easy to make a transition car. I have a couple. I can not see the caboose number real well. Looks like maybe a 906. If you can see it well let me know the number. For some reason I see many Wabash hoppers with faint lettering. This one is good.


----------



## wvgca

the caboose is a number 904, enlarging it did help quite a bit ...


----------



## mopac

Thanks wvgca.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac , I would like to revisit your 290 one more time. The number stamps are as strong as I have ever seen. If it were mine I would absolutely try to save them. Careful hand sanding of the shell to feather the chip edges and then several coats of paint might work. Unless someone puts their nose right up to it it will look great. 
Here is a repost of my 290. It looked just like yours before I sanded and painted it. I put Vaseline over the numbers inside the rivet detail. Note that by ending the Vaseline at the rivets a paint line is not visible.
If it does not work out you can always blast it later.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Tom. Can not see your paint line around the cab numbers. Good job. I was thinking the rivet lines would be best. I think the hand sanding will work. May not be perfect but a lot better. Your 290 looks great.


----------



## mopac

924 covered hopper and 24221 hopper. The cars are far from great condition, but usable.
The Missouri Pacific took in the C&EI in 1976.


----------



## AmFlyer

I always liked the 24221. They are hard to find in good condition, probably because the gray paint over black plastic was not durable enough.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

AF 969 Rocket Launcher


----------



## cramden

Nice touch up Tom, can't tell at all . Mopac, you should try as Tom suggests, nothing to loose . Don't have a 24221 C&EI. Never came across one that wasn't beat or broken. Fred, I have a 969 similar to yours. I'll try to take some pics. today of it. It's got a couple of odd things about it, which is why I bought it. Here's a few pics. of my 271 Whistle Stop set.


----------



## flyguy55

A few posts back a American Flyer Lines 630 was mentioned as being hard to find.Here is mine next to a Reading 630......


----------



## AmFlyer

Including a great condition OB, now you are talking! Sorry, I am one of those people that like the packaging almost as much as the contents.


----------



## cramden

flyguy55 said:


> A few posts back a American Flyer Lines 630 was mentioned as being hard to find.Here is mine next to a Reading 630......


Nice, now you have to dig out the 630 "American Flyer" and post a pic.


----------



## AmFlyer

My list now includes my red painted AF 630, red painted AF 930, the LN/OB 24221, the 405 Silver Streak with PulMor and the blister pack Pikemaster track accessories. Unfortunately I have no idea which of the storage containers any of these items are in, there are about 70 of them and they are located in two different attics.
Then there are some other items I planned to show such as the K5206W and K5210W boxed sets. I thought these would be easy to locate, I was wrong! This might take a year.
I think plan B is warranted, I will post whatever is interesting in the next storage container I open.


----------



## cramden

Your inventory sounds like mine, only a much larger problem on your end. Show whatever, it's all good.


----------



## AFGP9

Cramden, nice 940 and C&EI open hopper. I have the same cars except my C&EI is missing a lower step rung and has a small scratch near that area. 
Did you know there are 2 color versions of the 940? I have two sets of both. One is a little darker shade of grey.


----------



## AFGP9

Cramden I forgot to mention your 271 Whistle Stop set. I have one of those in the original box as well and the underneath sticker you show in your picture. I am missing one of the stickers from the side of the news stand, otherwise all is complete.


----------



## cramden

AFGP9 said:


> Cramden I forgot to mention your 271 Whistle Stop set. I have one of those in the original box as well and the underneath sticker you show in your picture. I am missing one of the stickers from the side of the news stand, otherwise all is complete.


Thanks, but the hoppers are mopacs. All 3 of the buildings have the label on the bottom. Mine are similar to ones in the guides that have pictures, but have some different ads. All 3 have the Phillip Morris man on one side and the Phillip Morris pack on the other side. All 3 of the rears have RKO theater ads .They do make repro ads that you can buy for what you're missing.


----------



## AmFlyer

For less common cabooses I found two out of three I wanted to share. Here they are, on the left is the red painted (not Tuscan) 930 American Flyer (not AFL.) On the right is a red painted 630 Reading. Note it has two spring trucks and the spring stampings are quite sharp indicating a relatively new die. Now if I could just find that painted 630 AF.


----------



## cramden

Nice ones Tom. MY 930 red American Flyer has a broken catwalk end but I bought it at the time because I hadn't seen one before when I was going to shows. It also doesn't have the rivet knuckle coupler, just the later mounted one.


----------



## AFGP9

Sorry about the hopper mix up cramden. I knew they were mopacs, but brain waves shorted out. That's what I get for trying to think of two things at once. Maybe mopac will see the post? 
I knew there were signs for those Whistle Stop buildings available but haven't taken time to search.


----------



## flyernut

4 cars enjoying a frosty ice cream cone at the Frosty Bar. 2 1970 Nova's, a 1970 442, and a Ford 429 Torino.. The cars came from MTH car carriers, and I have 3 more car carriers with 2 black Nova's on each one.. And of course the real deal, my 69 Nova.


----------



## flyernut

You want power???


----------



## mopac

All neat stuff guys. This thread is brining some stuff out. You guys are doing good.
I am going to have to go through my 20 cabooses and see if I have some painted ones.
LOL, not counting Tuscan ones. The Tuscan are my favorite.


----------



## mopac

flyernut, nice cars and man, you got power. I knew you had 2 of the ZWs. You snuck in a third. ZW is my favorite transformer.


----------



## Mikeh49

OK, I'll jump in with my measly stuff. First, a tarted up 303 Atlantic with a Portlines trailing truck cover and added tender marker lights. (The "naked" trailing truck bothered me from the time I got a 283 in 1955 or so.) I got this one in 1983 from the SASE train lists of the time for $23 plus $2 shipping. About $59 in today's money. The reverse unit was cranky when I got it, so I put in an electronic unit from Scaled Tin Rail. That was replaced with a Dallee recently and the Scaled Tin Rail went to the (hated by Mopac) Flyonel Daylight PA. Works fine there. The STR unit uses relays so can handle higher current than the Dallee which uses SCRs or Triacs or something solid state. The Daylight PA has 2 motors.


----------



## cramden

That's some nice looking cars flyernut. If only I had kept my 1970 396. Young and dumb was I. With all of that wattage you could probably weld with those if hooked in a series. Mikeh49, nice upgrade to the 303. I like the truck covers, I might get a few of those. It dresses up a plain trailing truck.


----------



## mopac

Mike, the factory reverse unit in my Daylight went up in smoke. So the train only runs in forward but that's ok for now. Someday I will get a Dallee for it. Hate to spend any money on it. LOL. The cover for the trailing wheels is too cool. Good looking 303.


----------



## Mikeh49

@Mopac - that's nothing, mine only ran in reverse in less than an hour of running. I swapped the big SCRs/Triacs so it only ran forward. Good enough for the kids. I think the motors are actually OK, the reverse unit is the issue. And, it's currently unobtanium. Just as well. 

The high amp Dallee is pretty expensive. The reasonable one is for 4 amps, which is enough, I thinkl. I tried to measure the amps that the PA used, at it was less than 3 A at stall. Whatever.


----------



## mopac

LOL, I took the reverse unit out and just wired the motors direct to the power pickups. 4 wires to the field. 2 for forward and 2 for reverse. I still think it is one of my best looking trains. I like it and detest it at the same time. Lionel should be ashamed of its self. Yes, those reverse units are junk.



Just got to thinking, maybe only 3 wires to each motor. One common, and the other 2 are one for forward and one for reverse. Anyway, it runs.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> flyernut, nice cars and man, you got power. I knew you had 2 of the ZWs. You snuck in a third. ZW is my favorite transformer.


I got the 3rd one at a garage sale. It was still in the original box, and I spent $10 bucks for it,lol!!!!!. Not shown is my 30B, several 8B's, and quite a few more I pick up here and there.They must work perfectly as some day all my grandchildren will be getting most of my trains, and I certainly don't want them hurt.


----------



## flyernut

cramden said:


> That's some nice looking cars flyernut. If only I had kept my 1970 396. Young and dumb was I. With all of that wattage you could probably weld with those if hooked in a series. Mikeh49, nice upgrade to the 303. I like the truck covers, I might get a few of those. It dresses up a plain trailing truck.


About 3 days after that picture was take, a large speaker fell off the wall and took out that quarter panel you see in the picture. Of course I was beside myself, and off to the body shop it went.. In order to blend in the paint to the other body panels my painter had to repair and fix the damage, paint the roof, paint the OTHER quarter-panel, and then the trunk lid!!. It looks even better now than in the picture.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

AF Saw Mill


----------



## mopac

Very cool saw mill. Works great.


----------



## mopac

My fly/onel Missouri Pacific A-B-A locomotive set. The B unit has Railsounds.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice looking engines. That grassy area is calling out for some track but it does look like a big project.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

This applies to Post War American Flyer's also...:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## mopac

Tom, top of wall is wide enough for 2 tracks. So all that would need to be in yard would be 
a loop at each end. Sure would put one track close to the edge. With only one track set at back of the wall, I probably would not worry about a locomotive falling to its death.


----------



## AmFlyer

Hmmm, in order to protect the valuable trains and not mark, drill or deface the wall I would get some plexiglass, cut sheets of it a bit wider than the top of the wall then glue a short vertical piece along one edge. Set the assembly on top of the wall, put the track on the plexiglass and all will be well. No marks or stains on the top of the wall, no trains falling to the ground. I am sure the last thing you need is my help to spend your money.


----------



## AmFlyer

For todays post I have an item I found on a vendor’s table. It is in new condition, never used. This is the only one of these I have ever seen. It makes me wonder what else is out there to be found.


----------



## Mikeh49

That would be a really handy tool for AF track. Except for the rubber roadbed. Talk about a thin market.


----------



## AmFlyer

Would not work with the rubber roadbed. I image they made these for O and Standard gauge but I never looked for one. Most of these probably got lost or were thrown away over the years.


----------



## mopac

What a cool tool. I have never seen one. Not really an AF product but it does have an AF model number. Bet it keeps you from smashing the ties also.


----------



## AFGP9

*flyernut*

flyernut you are making me cry. I had '69 Nova SS, 396, 375 hp, 4 speed 4:11 gear. It was the RPO L78 version. Mine was a lighter blue but otherwise just like yours. Bench seats, rubber floor mats, and only power steering. No other options. Sorry I ever sold it. All told I have had 6 version of the ChevyII/Nova cars.


----------



## Magic

Broke, that's a pretty cool action accessory.
Works good too.

Magic


----------



## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> flyernut you are making me cry. I had '69 Nova SS, 396, 375 hp, 4 speed 4:11 gear. It was the RPO L78 version. Mine was a lighter blue but otherwise just like yours. Bench seats, rubber floor mats, and only power steering. No other options. Sorry I ever sold it. All told I have had 6 version of the ChevyII/Nova cars.


I've had around 6-8 Nova's, since 1972. This one pictured was actually a light blue, with a blue bench seat and interior, probably the same light blue as yours.The wife wanted a darker blue so we painted it "black sapphire metallic", a stock GM color used on early 90's Buicks, Caddy's, and Chevy's..


----------



## mopac

Big, Bad, and Bold. NYC 326 Hudson.


----------



## shaker281

From that angle it looks two feet long! Nice. It looks exceptionally clean.

I think I would enjoy one of those. Any advice what to look for?


----------



## mopac

Shaker, I look for 2 things. Original paint that I like and that it runs good. When a seller
says untested, you can bet your last dollar it does not run. I have bought untested locomotives but I have to get them cheap.

I paid the load for this one. $149.00 plus shipping. But I was not disappointed when I unpacked it and
it runs and smokes like a champ. Oh, and I study the pictures to make sure it is complete. I have seen parts missing in pics and seller never mentioned the missing parts.

I like the angle of the shot also.

I almost bought one engine and then noticed the trailing wheels were missing. Seller never mentioned that. Be careful. Just for the trailing wheels can cost $30.00.

If seller says complete, original paint, runs great, reverse unit works properly, smokes good, then it probably does. Its what they don't say that I watch for.


----------



## shaker281

AFGP9 said:


> flyernut you are making me cry. I had '69 Nova SS, 396, 375 hp, 4 speed 4:11 gear. It was the RPO L78 version. Mine was a lighter blue but otherwise just like yours. Bench seats, rubber floor mats, and only power steering. No other options. Sorry I ever sold it. All told I have had 6 version of the ChevyII/Nova cars.


Buddy of mine had a beautiful yellow 1970 4-speed with black vinyl top. Bought it used off a Chevy lot. Everything said stock 307 about it, except it had what appeared to be a factory 4 barrel and some plain Jane slotted wheels. Damn thing broke into the 13's! No one, including the shop that eventually built up the motor, could ever figure out what was the deal with that car. If the drive train had been modified it was with 100% factory parts. And I do not think there was any record of 307 cars with 4 barrels. Even had a stock air cleaner.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> Shaker, I look for 2 things. Original paint that I like and that it runs good. When a seller
> says untested, you can bet your last dollar it does not run. I have bought untested locomotives but I have to get them cheap.
> 
> I paid the load for this one. $149.00 plus shipping. But I was not disappointed when I unpacked it and
> it runs and smokes like a champ. Oh, and I study the pictures to make sure it is complete. I have seen parts missing in pics and seller never mentioned the missing parts.
> 
> I like the angle of the shot also.


Cool on the info. I agree that not running is a small issue, but poor appearance or missing parts is a biggie. What about the "large motor" thing? How big an issue is that?


----------



## mopac

I only have one big motor. Its in my 336 Northern. Nothing wrong with smaller motor.
I have 2 northerns, one big motor, one smaller motor. They both run good but maybe its in my head but I would rather have the large motor. A Hudson with large motor figure 200 or more for a nice one. I keep
looking for a large motor in anything that seller does not know and no one else sees it. LOL, has not happened yet.


----------



## AmFlyer

If I could have only one engine it would be a Hudson.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> For todays post I have an item I found on a vendor’s table. It is in new condition, never used. This is the only one of these I have ever seen. It makes me wonder what else is out there to be found.
> 
> View attachment 505508
> 
> 
> View attachment 505510
> 
> 
> View attachment 505512


Well, at least there are two of them that were made. I remember seeing one on ebay a few years ago. The seller didn't know too much more about it but what the box showed. The tool was in the box, but only some of the spikes in a bag, no boxes. Definitely a conversation piece. Nice find.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> View attachment 505552
> 
> 
> Big, Bad, and Bold. NYC 326 Hudson.


Nice Hudson and PA's mopac. I think the Hudson was Gilbert's best looking steamer.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> I only have one big motor. Its in my 336 Northern. Nothing wrong with smaller motor.
> I have 2 northerns, one big motor, one smaller motor. They both run good but maybe its in my head but I would rather have the large motor. A Hudson with large motor figure 200 or more for a nice one. I keep
> looking for a large motor in anything that seller does not know and no one else sees it. LOL, has not happened yet.





AmFlyer said:


> If I could have only one engine it would be a Hudson.


That is good info, thanks guys.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> View attachment 505498
> 
> 
> My fly/onel Missouri Pacific A-B-A locomotive set. The B unit has Railsounds.


 Why I like the ALCO ABA, so cool.


----------



## shaker281

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> AF Saw Mill
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAGMEOZQHkI&feature=youtu.be


I love that thing. Been looking for one recently. I am torn between a NIB repro and an EXC cond vintage w/box. $50 or $200? Hmmm.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> If I could have only one engine it would be a Hudson.


That's why I have 6 of them,lol..


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> View attachment 505498
> 
> 
> My fly/onel Missouri Pacific A-B-A locomotive set. The B unit has Railsounds.


Looks familiar.


----------



## mopac

I had a chance to get 2 of these from flyguy55 and I jumped on it.
They are some of my favorite cars.
AF 647


----------



## AmFlyer

They are nice. One is a 3 spring truck and one is a 2 spring variation.


----------



## mopac

They are pretty nice. The one on the right has some age cracks in the brown roof paint.
Roof paint seems thicker on that one. No paint flaking.


----------



## shaker281

When I tested this I thought there was a problem, but it was easily fixed. The junction of the wire from power source to winding and lights was not insulated and arcing to the structure. A bit of shrink tubing did the trick. Works like new and has two clean 696 track trips. I try and focus on postwar to mid 1950's 3-digit accessories. My research indicates that this is a 759, sold in a 23763 box, so it basically fits that requirement.


----------



## mopac

Looks like a nice one.

There was a problem but you found it and fixed it. Good job.


----------



## JoeSaggese

That should be a fun item.


----------



## mopac

This is how I store my AF steamers and cars. An Atlantic or a
Pacific fit with tenders attached. Northerns have to have tender
detached. They cost $3.00 including tax and I get them at a local baseball card shop. They stack great. I have 13 of them. I have an inventory list and each item has the number of the box item is in. Each box is numbered. It does make finding something easier.


----------



## shaker281

I like that arrangement. Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## cramden

Nice looking N.P. cars mopac. The only extra car Dad bought for our trains was a 947 N.P. I always liked this car. Like your 759 shaker281, a 5 digit box puts it at a 1957 production. Good job getting it straightened out.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Korea Flat Car Load


----------



## cramden

Good job on the flatcar load. Did the trucks come that way or did you repaint them?


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

cramden said:


> Good job on the flatcar load. Did the trucks come that way or did you repaint them?


That is exactly the way that they came. I did put a wooden plank deck on the flat car. No chains yet...


----------



## AmFlyer

Neat!


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

gone but not forgotten...


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks pretty good to me!


----------



## DMASSO




----------



## AmFlyer

Very nice, Don. Thanks for posting.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Nice Don!


----------



## flyernut

Nice 56 and nice layout!!!!!:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## mopac

Very nice layout Don. Here is a small freight headed up with the
Royal Blue.


----------



## cramden

Here's a trio of 928 flatcars. A gray die-cast C.& N.W. log car (42597). A black die-cast New Haven log car, and a black plastic New Haven lumber car.






















Nice layout pics. Don, Thanks for sharing them.


----------



## shaker281

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Korea Flat Car Load


 Very nice!


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> View attachment 505860
> 
> 
> Very nice layout Don. Here is a small freight headed up with the
> Royal Blue.


Hey, that's my set too!!


----------



## flyernut

cramden said:


> Here's a trio of 928 flatcars. A gray die-cast C.& N.W. log car (42597). A black die-cast New Haven log car, and a black plastic New Haven lumber car.
> View attachment 505862
> 
> 
> View attachment 505864
> 
> 
> View attachment 505866
> Nice layout pics. Don, Thanks for sharing them.


I also have many examples of all those cars. I've always liked the log cars, and have them in link and knuckle coupler.


----------



## shaker281

A 592 Crossing Gate from 1950 in decent condition, minus pedestrian gate section, like most of them.


----------



## mopac

Very nice. I do not think I have seen one of them before. Probably a lot out there I have not seen.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> Very nice. I do not think I have seen one of them before. Probably a lot out there I have not seen.


Thanks.

It works off a track trip, but that causes it to bounce a bit when the train passes. I'll wire it to a switch instead. That dark dot below the gate is actually a hole and a light bulb shines up from beneath and illuminates the little red lantern.

I always watch for things that are post-war up to about 1959, particularly if metal and sporting the accessory green theme. Matches the vintage of both my 1948 Pacific Freight and my 1957 Santa Fe Freight.


----------



## cramden

shaker281 said:


> A 592 Crossing Gate from 1950 in decent condition, minus pedestrian gate section, like most of them.


 Nice crossing gate shaker281. I think Doug at PortLines sell the gates for the crossings.


----------



## shaker281

cramden said:


> Nice crossing gate shaker281. I think Doug at PortLines sell the gates for the crossings.


I now see that he does, thanks for the suggestion. I was actually preparing an order for Port Lines.


----------



## mopac

I am a fan of tank cars. I have 3 Gulf tankers. 2 3 digit and 1 5
digit cars. These are 2 625Gs. On my want list is a 3 dome MobilGas red tank car. I also notice we have over 8,000 views on this thread so it seems to be a popular thread. Hee Hee, I knew it would be. Good job guys. Keep the pics coming.

These 2 tankcars could use a bath, other than dust they are in decent condition. I also have a 5 digit Gulf with knuckle couplers.
I hope to get a few more of these and have a nice train with just Gulf tankers.


----------



## AmFlyer

Note the one on the right has 3 spring trucks so it is likely a later production. Don't forget about the 926 and 24313 Gulf 3 dome tank cars for your all Gulf train.


----------



## mopac

I don't have any but I do like the 3 dome cars.


----------



## cramden

Good looking tank cars. I like the die-cast frame ones even though they have less detail than the plastic frame ones. They are heavier and seem to track better. Here's my pic for the day. A boxed 716 automatic dump car from 1948. Somehow, I have managed to misplace the bag of coal.


----------



## mopac

cramden, you will find your bag of coal right after you buy another bag of coal.
Nice dump car.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> cramden, you will find your bag of coal right after you buy another bag of coal.
> Nice dump car.


Nope, I saw it a couple of months ago. I know its here somewhere. I'll find it when I'm looking for something else.:laugh:


----------



## flyernut

Those tank cars are also one of my favorites as a kid, therefore.... I have a boat-load of them,lol!!.. I must have 20 625, 625G cars,at least a dozen 925 Gulf cars, 3-4 3 dome cars, and 2-3 5-digit cars, but the 625 is my favorite. When I was a kid, and was holding the tank car, it made a special "jingle" when you lightly shook it, it must be the link couplers. Try it,lol..Reminds of the trains Dad would set up at Christmas...Thanks Dad...


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## mopac

I may have showed this pic before, if so, here it is again.
It is an ebay purchase. Runs and smokes real nice.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Ready to shot down those pesky Russian, Chinese and North Korean rockets! Maybe even Lionel three rail but I might be able to pass on that. For a matter of fact, I will launch at any threat to my Ping Pong Table American Flyer Layout! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## AmFlyerFan

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Ready to shot down those pesky Russian, Chinese and North Korean rockets! Maybe even Lionel three rail but I might be able to pass on that. For a matter of fact, I will launch at any threat to my Ping Pong Table American Flyer Layout! :laugh::laugh::laugh:



+1 How about a video of that rocket launching?

I tried with my cellphone, failure...


----------



## Panther

cramden said:


> Good looking tank cars. I like the die-cast frame ones even though they have less detail than the plastic frame ones. They are heavier and seem to track better. Here's my pic for the day. A boxed 716 automatic dump car from 1948. Somehow, I have managed to misplace the bag of coal.
> View attachment 505928


Cramden;

No problem, don't worry about the coal, Christmas is not too far away.

Dan


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## mopac

An 803 boxcar and a girder car. Neither of these cars are in great condition. Closer to rough. Looks like someone painted the girder car trucks silver. These are both from a cheap ebay lot purchase.
They look better in the pic than they are.


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## AmFlyer

They do look ok in the picture. When someone painted the Girder car trucks silver they also painted the flat car body; the lines where the lettering was masked are visible because the colors do not match.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

Well it is a good thing that I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. They look good to me, but I am not a rivet counter.:laugh:


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## mopac

Tom, some people should not be allowed to posses a paint brush. The girder might have been painted also. It is still a girder.

Broke, I would still use these cars because I am not a rivet counter either.
The ATSF symbol in the upper left is a paper sticker. This was the picture side of the 803.
No symbol sticker on other side and for some reason the lettering not so strong.
I think most "runner" cars have a picture side.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Tom, some people should not be allowed to posses a paint brush. The girder might have been painted also. It is still a girder.
> 
> Broke, I would still use these cars because I am not a rivet counter either.
> The ATSF symbol in the upper left is a paper sticker. This was the picture side of the 803.
> No symbol sticker on other side and for some reason the lettering not so strong.


I bought some decal paper to use on my ink jet printer. I had hoped to create some custom logos but, to date, I have not tried. They are suppose to work good with some decal fixer and a light coat of clear paint. A project for a later day...


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## mopac

Broke, I have not used any decal paper either. I think it works well with some practice.
Like anything else. I remember as a kid doing decals on my plastic models such as planes.
They would always look fine for awhile and then they would dry out and curl away from the model.
That's where the clearcoat comes in. Keeps those decals down.


----------



## Panther

mopac said:


> Broke, I have not used any decal paper either. I think it works well with some practice.
> Like anything else. I remember as a kid doing decals on my plastic models such as planes.
> They would always look fine for awhile and then they would dry out and curl away from the model.
> That's where the clearcoat comes in. Keeps those decals down.


The decal problem was always an issue. Now the clearcoat after they dry fixes that. Actually I use a Semi Gloss, because real life is not glossy. :laugh:

Dan


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## cramden

They don't look too bad Al, maybe repaint the flat if it bothers you. But since they're runners, I wouldn't worry about them. The Santa Fe stickers are available if I remember correctly, if you wanted to replace them. The 803 isn't bad looking at all.


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## mopac

I use polyurethane in a spray can to incase things with a clearcoat. And like Panther said
Semi Gloss takes the shine off of it.

cramden, thanks, they are fine to run. In real life, cars are not perfect. They have scrapes on them.


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## ebtnut

The problem with inkjet printers and decal paper is that there is no "white" color. Computer printers are made with the assumption that the printing stock will primarily be white paper, so no need for a white cartridge. To do white with decal paper you need to paint the area of the decal white first, which will show through the blank areas where white would be on the decal. An outfit named "ALPS" once made a printer that did do colors like white and gold, but it was not an inkjet. They haven't been made for many years now.


----------



## cramden

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Ready to shot down those pesky Russian, Chinese and North Korean rockets! Maybe even Lionel three rail but I might be able to pass on that. For a matter of fact, I will launch at any threat to my Ping Pong Table American Flyer Layout! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Nice one Fred, I'll have to post some pics of my oddball 969 later. But now you need to get one of these in case you miss with your shot!


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## cramden

*Oddball 969*

This is the odd 969 rocket launcher I picked up some time ago. I couldn't understand why someone would run the wires on the top of the deck instead of soldering them back to the bottom of the truck rivets, although the long wire goes down the proper hole but comes back up near the middle. When I went to change them I noticed no solder residue on the bottom of the rivets. Hmm... I still hadn't noticed that the tool box was yellow painted and not the normal Tuscon color. When I realized that, I looked for other examples of yellow boxes on 969's in books and on the net. Still haven't seen another like it. It's possible the factory was out of Tuscon boxes and substituted a yellow one. I find it hard to believe that the wire job got passed the inspectors at Gilbert, but who knows. Anyway, I decided to leave it as found rather than change the wiring. It does work, so a






































mystery for another day or person to solve.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, assuming that is original it is possible it did not make it past the inspectors. Things like this were sold at a steep discount to Gilbert employees at the Company store.


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## AmFlyer

It has been a number of days since I posted any new pictures. Unfortunately some other things in my life got in the way of the trains, I hate it when that happens. I was able to get some pictures for 3 days worth of postings, I went into the attic and found a few less common items in my collection.
Today’s picture is probably boring for most of the viewers. I like to concentrate on the link coupler era. 
Almost all boxes for the 633 B&O boxcars are stamped 633. A few were stamped as shown to reflect the actual colors on the car, these are quite rare. In the condition shown these are worth far more than the car inside, at least to collectors like myself who have a fixation on the OB’s. The lesson here is if you see one at a show and the price for the car is fair, buy it. The box can be sold off to buy 2 or 3 more cars.


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## cramden

That's a possibility I didn't think about. It looks original to me, nothing appears to have been altered or replaced with newer hardware. I just decided to leave it as is, not expecting it to be a rare or sample piece. Without any more information than that, I doubt anyone intentionally made it up expecting it to pass for something it isn't. It's too common of a piece. Could be someone was in a hurry on a Friday afternoon at the factory.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> It has been a number of days since I posted any new pictures. Unfortunately some other things in my life got in the way of the trains, I hate it when that happens. I was able to get some pictures for 3 days worth of postings, I went into the attic and found a few less common items in my collection.
> Today’s picture is probably boring for most of the viewers. I like to concentrate on the link coupler era.
> Almost all boxes for the 633 B&O boxcars are stamped 633. A few were stamped as shown to reflect the actual colors on the car, these are quite rare. In the condition shown these are worth far more than the car inside, at least to collectors like myself who have a fixation on the OB’s. The lesson here is if you see one at a show and the price for the car is fair, buy it. The box can be sold off to buy 2 or 3 more cars.
> 
> View attachment 506128


Interesting boxes, I didn't know they came stamped that way. You are a serious box collector, no doubt. Did the 633 Reefers come marked as well on the boxes?


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## AmFlyer

I have never seen a 633 reefer in a box marked 633 Refrigerator Car. That does not mean they do not exist. The rare reefer 633 variant is 1952 production. I saw a red painted one in a box marked 633-R Box Car. Vendor claimed it was the OB for the reefer.
I have one 633 Reefer, red painted, it is in the OB. I bought it 10 years ago. I did not note the box stamping on my inventory list, dummy! The problem now would be to find it, some day it will surface during one of my searches.


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## cramden

Thanks, I know the Reefers are hard to come by. I learned something new about the 633's today, more specifically, the boxes.


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## AFGP9

I have 3 633 Reefers. 2 red painted and 1 Tuscan. I don't know when I bought them since I have been collecting so many years. I know one of them came in a box but don't know where the box is. I am not a box collector but I never turn down a chance to get them when possible. I consider that a side perk. 
I bought a small collection 5 years ago and all but two of the 12 cars were in the blue and yellow boxes. 
All of my other boxes are in a plastic container somewhere. The contents are out on the layout or, if rare, in a glass door display case. 

As a side note, when I go to shows I never neglect to look under the vendor's table after I have checked what the vendor is displaying. I have gotten several boxcars, gons, and hopper cars that had scratches or scrapes on them cheap. They are perfect candidates for weathering for the layout. Since they are already damaged, the weathering just enhances the used hard appearance, especially hopper cars. Broken steps are easily repaired too.


----------



## shaker281

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Ready to shot down those pesky Russian, Chinese and North Korean rockets! Maybe even Lionel three rail but I might be able to pass on that. For a matter of fact, I will launch at any threat to my Ping Pong Table American Flyer Layout! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Neat. Never saw one of those before.


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## flyernut

Picked up the 2056 at a car parts swap meet, and the 2037 at a garage sale.O scale, I know....


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## mopac

Nice, good looking steamers. I guess I need to start hitting some yard sales. Tried a few
last year and no train stuff.


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## cramden

This is a 781 abutment set from 1953. There are a total of 62 pieces in 3 sizes, 40 large, 14 medium, and 8 small. They are made of a ceramic material and are heavy. You can see by the numerous tape repairs to keep the box complete. My only complaint is there's no way to mount them, they depend on their weight to keep them in place, but they still move around over use. The price tag is from Strawbridge & Clothier, an east coast department store chain that is no longer in business. The price was $7.95 and says not returnable.














They are easily broken or chipped if mishandled.


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## AmFlyer

I never knew there were track locks in that set. How many are there? The set was designed for 26 track sections. I bought an MSOB 781 set back in 1/94. Never opened it. Back then I thought I would be able to have a small train store sales case in the entrance to my layout room to hold things like this. Did not work out that way.
I think they look ok, just need some velcro or 2 sided tape to keep them in place. Neat item to post, I especially like the original store price tag. $7.95 is the original catalog price, interesting Strawbridge & Clothier as a full service department store would mark it non returnable without a sales discount.


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## AmFlyer

For today’s picture I have a 1953 only link coupler gondola, the 620 Southern Gondola. It retailed for $3.00 and was not included in any cataloged sets. This example has the longer 3 spring trucks. The 620’s show up once in awhile but are not common. Being white on black they were kind of plain. The 920’s are far more common as they were included in sets and not a one year only item.
The OB is in good shape with a legible stamp. It is sitting on the roof of the main passenger station on my layout.


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## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> I never knew there were track locks in that set. How many are there? The set was designed for 26 track sections. I bought an MSOB 781 set back in 1/94. Never opened it. Back then I thought I would be able to have a small train store sales case in the entrance to my layout room to hold things like this. Did not work out that way.
> I think they look ok, just need some velcro or 2 sided tape to keep them in place. Neat item to post, I especially like the original store price tag. $7.95 is the original catalog price, interesting Strawbridge & Clothier as a full service department store would mark it non returnable without a sales discount.


Mine is not a sealed 781 but the track locks were in the box when I bought it. The bag contains 16 locks, but the bag is stamped in black ink #26. So, who knows. They do work with the abutments, the tab on top of the pieces not only keep the pieces in line when stacked, but fit between the two ties at the connection which allows the clip to be installed the same way as with the trestles. Nice 620, I have some 3 spring linkers and always look for more when I can. Just to up-date the track locks. Reading an older Greenberg guide it lists 26 track locks in the bag. After looking at the bag I have , it does look like a 6 instead of a 0. I'll have to add 10 to the bag.


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## AmFlyer

It the track lock bag is stamped 26 there should be 26 locks in it. That also matches the number of track sections the 781 set works with. I used to know a vendor who bought empty set boxes and put in all the pieces to make up the original set. The hardest item to find was a track lock bag with the correct number stamp for a given set. Seems like original sets had a lot of variety in how many track sections were included, based on the price point.


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## AmFlyer

For Friday here are pictures of another uncommon but desirable car, the 24222 Domino Sugars covered hopper. It was added to my collection in March of 2002. This example is very hard to find since it is new in the box, never run. The slightly weak stamping visible in the D where the rivets are is how it left the factory. The OB is in near perfect condition as well. I would like it on the layout but I just cannot bring myself to run it after it has lasted 55 years in its factory new state.


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## cramden

Just a beautiful example Tom. I don't know if I could run it either. Glad I don't have to decide that with my trains.


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## mopac

Tom, that s a fine covered hopper. Very nice. I have seen 1 or 2 of it, but not many.


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## mopac

have a few OB for my cars. Most do not have one. I like getting the box with the car,
but it s not a biggie. The cardboard is getting close to 70 years old and cardboard just does not pass the test of time most of the time.


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## cramden

It's a rather cool and rainy day here, a perfect time for me to mount an expedition into the attic in search of a box I know that came with a red painted 631 gondola I have. I found it but the stamping has faded considerably since I bought it. Grrr... the good news is I found a 633-R box I didn't remember I had. Now to find the box car down in the main part of the house. My inventory system at its finest. I did find the painted 633, I had forgotten I bought one. Anyway, glad Tom that you posted your pics. of your boxes. It appears that the left truck was replaced on this one at some time. Here is also the painted 631. I think they are both 1952 productions. The 631 is uncatalogued. Correct me if the dates are wrong.


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## AmFlyer

Wonder how that lettering faded, usually only sunlight will do that. The cardboard lasts "forever" if it is in a dry area. That is the best condition red painted 633 I recall seeing. The problem is most of the red ones were painted over white plastic so chips and wear marks stand out. The red T&P's are fun as well.
I seem to have the opposite problem you do Cramden. My inventory list is perfect because my wife created and maintained it. I just do not know where they are.


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## cramden

The stamping on the box as I recall was at least eligible, maybe my eyesight is the problem, or my memory, or both! The Greenberg book I have lists the red painted over gray plastic, which is what this one is, but with type "D" trucks(3 spring). The newer truck on the left has a more defined side frame, but is also a 2 spring as is the one on the right. My wife gave up on requests for me to get the trains organized long ago. As long as stuff isn't piled up all over the bedrooms she puts up with me. Besides, when I rediscover something that I had forgotten about, its like Christmas or a birthday. A win win without spending any money.


----------



## AmFlyer

The red painted 633 was made in both 1951 and 1952. I know of no way to determine the year.
The link coupler Gondolas are interesting. The three most common are the unpainted and the painted green 631 T&P along with unpainted red 641. The next most common is the 641 Frisco, 1953 only. This is one of the very few times Gilbert used the same number for 2 different cars. Getting to the more rare are the 620 Southern, 1953 and the red painted uncatalogued 631 T&P, 1951 only. The most rare are the uncatalogued 1948 gray unpainted plastic 631 T&P followed by the 1951 uncatalogued 641 gray unpainted AF.
I have no gray gondolas because all the examples I saw were missing at least one step.


----------



## cramden

No gray gondolas here for the same reason. Prices too high for damaged cars.


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## mopac

Never seen a red T&P gondola. Cool.

How do steps get broken.


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## cramden

mopac said:


> Never seen a red T&P gondola. Cool.
> 
> How do steps get broken.


How does anything get broken, abuse, misuse, rough handling, the list goes on. Earlier gondolas had thin steps, later, the steps were made thicker. Here's a great site that shows the difference in the steps. 4th pic. down. Lots of pics. and information on this site, worth a look. https://thegilbertgallery.org/Freight Gallery/gondolas.html


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## AmFlyer

Great link. I had forgotten about all those pictures.


----------



## AFGP9

I've only seen a red or gray T&P 631 gondola in pictures and eBay. Never in person. Once upon a time I decided to try and collect every gondola variation I could find. As a result, I have found at least 5 variations of the green 631. Lettering location, font size, green color variations, painted and unpainted green to name a few. As the picture cramden posted shows, there is also a difference in the ends of these cars. 
In my gondola buying frenzy back then I did bid on both a red and gray 631 on eBay but didn't like where the bidding was going. For what those 2 cars were selling for I want to see them up close and personal and in my hands. Both were over the $125 price and the auction had 3 days to go. I never did check the ending selling price. Greenberg lists the unpainted dark gray as $295 in excellent condition and the red painted one at $164 in excellent condition. As we all know everybody claims their item is in excellent condition.

There are other gondolas with pricey variations as well. One example that comes to mind is the "American Flyer" gray version that Greenberg lists at $283 in excellent condition. Nope didn't buy that one either off eBay. There are 2 red versions of the "American Flyer", painted and unpainted red which I have, and a 1953 "Frisco" Tuscan or light brown, whatever you want to call it, version that is very common and cheap which I also have. As I'm sure most everybody knows, just like hoppers of which I have 24, there are many versions of gondolas. At last count I have 26 of those when I stopped buying.


----------



## flyernut

Speaking of hoppers, I bought my white one for $5 bucks, but it has a missing step.. And that was at a train show.


----------



## mopac

LOL, speaking of train shows. Here is a little advice. I love deals on train items. I am not afraid to offer less. There is a way to do it. I never offer less on just one item. Well seldom. I find a seller with multiple items I want. I offer a crazy price. That starts the negotiations. You have to remember the seller would rather not drag all that stuff home.
You also have to know both sides need to feel like they won. So I start low and reach a good price and both sides feel good about the deal. You have to know your prices on things for this to work for you. Sounds simple but many don't know "the art of negotiations". I might have learned this from selling cars for 30 years.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> LOL, speaking of train shows. Here is a little advice. I love deals on train items. I am not afraid to offer less. There is a way to do it. I never offer less on just one item. Well seldom. I find a seller with multiple items I want. I offer a crazy price. That starts the negotiations. You have to remember the seller would rather not drag all that stuff home.
> You also have to know both sides need to feel like they won. So I start low and reach a good price and both sides feel good about the deal. You have to know your prices on things for this to work for you. Sounds simple but many don't know "the art of negotiations". I might have learned this from selling cars for 30 years.


Agree on all points. I might have learned this from buying cars for 30 years.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> LOL, speaking of train shows. Here is a little advice. I love deals on train items. I am not afraid to offer less. There is a way to do it. I never offer less on just one item. Well seldom. I find a seller with multiple items I want. I offer a crazy price. That starts the negotiations. You have to remember the seller would rather not drag all that stuff home.
> You also have to know both sides need to feel like they won. So I start low and reach a good price and both sides feel good about the deal. You have to know your prices on things for this to work for you. Sounds simple but many don't know "the art of negotiations". I might have learned this from selling cars for 30 years.


Agree on all points. I might have learned this from buying cars for 30 years. 

And why I like the "Make An Offer" button on Ebay.


----------



## shaker281

What do you guys think of these? 48120/48121 new (1993) shells on really nice vintage ALCO chassis. Dual motors with excellent pull-mor wheels. 

I'd seriously like to know what folks think and any guesses as to what they might be worth are very welcome.


----------



## mopac

No idea what the shells should sell for but do know they are good looking,


Wild guess here. $180 for the pair. To me, with newer shells they are not vintage any longer.
I bought fly/onel Alco pair brand new from the 1990s for 180. AA with one dummy.


----------



## mopac

One of my Hudsons.
Number boards on the front would be nice.


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> View attachment 506426
> 
> 
> One of my Hudsons.
> Number boards on the front would be nice.


That IS a nice one. Looks nearly perfect. I've been eyeballing those, since you started posting pics of them. If I buy a second steamer, it'll be something like that.


----------



## mopac

How much does seller want for those Alco PA diesels?


----------



## shaker281

mopac said:


> How much does seller want for those Alco PA diesels?


Thanks for asking. I actually held back because I wanted unbiased opinions, though I know most collectors seem to favor the steamers. I paid $129 for the pair and he threw in a decent storage box. 

I am a sucker for these dual motor Alco's. And I really wanted those clean chassis. Maybe to go with some super clean vintage shells someday.


----------



## mopac

I think 129 is a good price. Finding Western Pacific cars might be tough. They look good.


----------



## Kelpieflyer

Here's a couple of pictures of a Flyer depressed center flat car I repainted. It has a piece of limestone from the Soldiers and Sailors Monument at Monument Circle in Indianapolis. I was there when they were replacing limestone about 20 years ago and was able to get permission from the War Memorial Commander to get a piece that has been thrown in a dumpster. I tried to attach it with small chains, but they wouldn't hold it on, so it is bolted from underneath the car.


----------



## shaker281

Wow, that is very unique!


----------



## mopac

It s a cool flat car load. Looks like a monument block.


----------



## Panther

Kelpieflyer said:


> Here's a couple of pictures of a Flyer depressed center flat car I repainted. It has a piece of limestone from the Soldiers and Sailors Monument at Monument Circle in Indianapolis. I was there when they were replacing limestone about 20 years ago and was able to get permission from the War Memorial Commander to get a piece that has been thrown in a dumpster. I tried to attach it with small chains, but they wouldn't hold it on, so it is bolted from underneath the car.


Replace the chains for show.

Dan


----------



## cramden

Neat looking load and use of a depressed center flat car. I've seen numerous homemade loads over the years on these and the shorter flats.


----------



## Kelpieflyer

Panther said:


> Replace the chains for show.
> 
> Dan


Think I will. I have to replace a Monon decal that fell off even though I over coated it with some matte clear.


----------



## cramden

This is a 23830 Piggy back unloader from 1959/60. It comes with a 24550 flat with 2 trailers.


----------



## AmFlyer

Very Nice. Good choice for the photo.


----------



## mopac

Love those trailers.


----------



## cramden

Thanks guys, sticking with the Monon theme. I don't think this saw much run time and the ramps were still wrapped in the brown paper. Picked this 956 up long ago, I think more than one in a freight train looks better.


----------



## MichaelE

Very nice presentation Cramden. Nice looking set.


----------



## cramden

Thanks MichaelE.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice Cramden. It looks like I am not the only one that has both versions of that Monon piggy back flat car set. I have no boxes though. I bought the 956 off eBay 8 years ago. I got the 23830 and the unloader in a collection I bought. The unloader was never out of the wrapper, plus I got the American Flyer paper work with it. 
I have several different piggy back trailer sets. I should have counted them before I posted. I had planned on making a piggy back trailer train with all the ones I have. Haven't gotten around to it yet. On my list of things I planned but never got to.


----------



## mopac

One of my 302s. I have a few.


----------



## cramden

AFGP9 said:


> Very nice Cramden. It looks like I am not the only one that has both versions of that Monon piggy back flat car set. I have no boxes though. I bought the 956 off eBay 8 years ago. I got the 23830 and the unloader in a collection I bought. The unloader was never out of the wrapper, plus I got the American Flyer paper work with it.
> I have several different piggy back trailer sets. I should have counted them before I posted. I had planned on making a piggy back trailer train with all the ones I have. Haven't gotten around to it yet. On my list of things I planned but never got to.


AFGP9, there are a couple of variations on the 956 and the 24550, the common one with black trailers and an extremely rare one with silver trailers. The 24550 came with a 2 piece brake wheel or a one piece plastic brake wheel. The there is a very rare 24536 one from 1958. I've never come across a 24536 at any shows.This page shows the 2 rare ones. https://thegilbertgallery.org/Freight Gallery/flatcars3.html


----------



## cramden

Good looking Atlantic mopac. The 302AC I have is the loudest chugger of all of the steamers I have. Don't really know why, but it's loud.


----------



## mopac

Thanks cramden. Paint is nice, cab numbers are strong, lettering is good.
I might have 6 302s.
2 plastic body 302s 
2 metal body 302ACs
2 1948 metal body 302s - got them both from flyernut - all the rest from ebay

I think 6 is enough. Might have to get a 303 and a 307.


----------



## AFGP9

I have a few of the 300 series engines. While not as many as some, it is a good variety. 
2-302 
1-302AC 
2-303
2-307
I saved the best for last. I bought a 1951 590T Atlantic three car set at an auction. It contains a pristine 300 AC, and like wise pristine 642, American Flyer, red painted over what looks like an orangeish base, a Red not painted American Flyer 641 Gondola, and a 638 not painted red caboose. In the box with the set is a N0. 1 transformer with crisp letters and numbers and a very soft, flexible cord. There are 12 pieces of 702 track, a 690 track clip, and a 704 manual uncoupler. The whole set and track shows very light run time. All wheels show that this set was used but only lightly then put away. 
The box the train was in is not the original. However there is an American Flyer A. C. Gilbert set numbered box end along with the operating instruction manual. The engine was wrapped in the original AF wrapper. There are what could pass for boxes for the cars. The only one with a label on the end is the 641 Gondola. Otherwise the boxes are ragged. Considering the condition of the cars and engine I was surprised as to their box condition. For that matter why no original set box? Only the 590T numbered end panel. Everything checks out for sets listed in my handy dandy David Boyle American Flyer Trains catalog. At some point I will take the set out of the box and display it in my glass case. too nice to run. I got plenty of others to run.

Since I am posting on this thread, I suppose I should learn how to post pictures to be fair to the rest of you.


----------



## mopac

Nice array.

don't think I have seen a 300AC. Of coarse there is a lot in AF I have not seen. Only 3 years into
S scale.


----------



## Kelpieflyer

Here's my Pig Palace stock car...


----------



## AmFlyer

I always liked the Pig Palace, great example of one.


----------



## cramden

Nice one Russell. Looks real clean.


----------



## mopac

Very nice Pig Palace.


----------



## cramden

Here's a 910 Gilbert chemical car from 1954. The fellow I bought this from told me he thought that the reporting marks paint on the lower left side was most likely a paint mask glitch done at the factory. It doesn't appear to be a smear, the green paint under the lettering is perfect. I still bought it because the car was too nice to pass up. A question Tom "the box guy" might be able to answer. The side flap has a stamp that looks like a date. Are these date stamps or something else? Thanks in advance.


----------



## mopac

I have seen that tanker somewhere, LOL. Very nice tanker and box cramden.


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## AmFlyer

For today I have another caboose. I like this one because it is bright red, illuminated, fully decorated, the EV style and it is red, oh I said that twice. It is a 24634 and has Pikemaster couplers, its only downside. I found this one in December of 1996, it is new, never run.


----------



## mopac

Cool caboose Tom.


----------



## Mikeh49

Really great water in the ditch also.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks, the layout is set in the Pittsburgh area so some standing water is mandatory.


----------



## Mikeh49

The standing water is a really nice, realistic touch. I haven't previously seen that on a layout. Not to mention the ballast level on the track under the caboose.


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## shaker281

Mikeh49 said:


> Really great water in the ditch also.


In any other context, that would seem sarcastic - lol!



AmFlyer said:


> Thanks, the layout is set in the Pittsburgh area so some standing water is mandatory.


Funny! I am planning on some tall grass at my river's edge too. Is that something that one purchases? Or just pull some grass and spray with clear? If so, I've got an unlimited supply along my driveway!

I'm also noticing the sand and small pebbles at the bottom of the water, I like that better than just painting the bottom. At least for shallow water.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

shaker281 said:


> In any other context, that would seem sarcastic - lol!
> 
> 
> 
> Funny! I am planning on some tall grass at my river's edge too. Is that something that one purchases? Or just pull some grass and spray with clear? If so, I've got an unlimited supply along my driveway!


Just use tuffs of cheap paint brush bristles secures with a dollop of white glue.


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## AFGP9

Broke I have used the paint brush bristles for grass/weeds for years. I buy the cheapest yellow bristle brushes I can find. They really do work great. Some times I leave them as is, other times I will spray a coat of some green paint on the bristles. I also vary the height of them.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> For today I have another caboose. I like this one because it is bright red, illuminated, fully decorated, the EV style and it is red, oh I said that twice. It is a 24634 and has Pikemaster couplers, its only downside. I found this one in December of 1996, it is new, never run.
> 
> View attachment 506800


Nice find Tom. As much as I stay away from Pikemaster cars, That's one that might have been an exception.


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## Kelpieflyer

Here's an Exploding Boxcar. Still works.


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## AmFlyer

Nice boxcar, it is in good condition as well. So many of the ones I have seen on vendor tables have been scratched and chipped.


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## cramden

Nice, I was going to post mine but I'll wait for a later date. Here's a 912 Koppers from a boxed set 5525TBW. I thought I'd show the coupler covers and the paper that the cars are wrapped in before being put in the boxes.


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## AmFlyer

Neat, definitely pristine original. I have some link coupler cars with the coupler protectors. Those are short round cardboard tubes unlike the rectangular design with these knuckle couplers.


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## cramden

Thanks, it might have been used once. I bought this set from a friend who collects Lionel and buys and sells trains all of the time. My wife introduced him to me, (I think she might still regret that) and he puts aside Flyer trains that he gets in and gives me first chance to buy. I have bought a lot of trains from him over the years. I'll post pics. of the set sometime. The only thing missing was the smoke cartridge envelope.


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## flyernut

Got this for $4 bucks... do I need it???... nope, but for $4 bucks, why not?


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## cramden

Exactly, sometimes its a no brainer.


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## mopac

Very nice chemical car. I like tank cars.


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## cramden

Staying with the tank car theme. Here is my only Pike-Master car. A 24329 from 1964/65 with a split tank and railings and platform. The split tank is a tank with the bottom of the tank part of the plastic frame instead of being a complete cylinder mounted on the frame. I have to learn to keep my fingers out of the picture.


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## AmFlyer

Another nice car. The Pikemaster cars can be ok to run if kept in the middle of a consist and no uncoupling is required. i have many similar pictures with the out of focus object in the upper left corner!


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## shaker281

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Just use tuffs of cheap paint brush bristles secures with a dollop of white glue.


Fantastic! Thanks for that.


----------



## shaker281

AFGP9 said:


> Broke I have used the paint brush bristles for grass/weeds for years. I buy the cheapest yellow bristle brushes I can find. They really do work great. Some times I leave them as is, other times I will spray a coat of some green paint on the bristles. I also vary the height of them.


This is a case of answering my question before I even asked it!
Just the sort of thing I need to know at this juncture.


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## cramden

It's a Pennsy, whats not to like!


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## AmFlyer

That's my RR. Nice car.


----------



## cramden

Mine too. F.I.L. worked for the pennsy. and retired in 1967 before the merger with N.Y.C. do to health reasons. My M.I.L. had a lifetime pass on Amtrak.


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## shaker281

cramden said:


> It's a Pennsy, whats not to like!
> View attachment 507176


You are not a former Weco guy are you?


----------



## mopac

WOW!!! That cable spool car is nice. Never seen one like that.

Cramden, you have many 100.00 cars.


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## mopac

2 B&O cars. Both Lionel cars. They were both ebay deals.
New in box. $15.00 or less each.


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## cramden

Nice cars mopac. I like the older Flyonel cars that have the original type knuckle couplers with the weight instead of the ones with the tab and springs on them. Shaker 281, not a former weco employee, the P.R.R is my favorite R.R. Speaking of favs. here's one for you mopac.


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## mopac

I have one eye out for one of those Mopac cars. They are not cheap.


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## mopac

Nice Mopac car. I do like those. I do not have one yet. When I find one I like it
costs too much.


----------



## cramden

Thanks, they're out there but no too high in price. The stock cars are M.P.'s also, and are plentiful along with the operating cars for the cattle loader accessory.


----------



## AmFlyer

I am back, was off traveling on a 2 week vacation and had no access to the trains. Here are pictures of the #31 Railroad Signs, a relatively common item new in the box (NIB). It even has the packing slip.


----------



## mopac

A nice set of signs. Those are metal not plastic, correct?


----------



## AmFlyer

Yes, they are metal. I have my original set, no longer in the box. There is some scratching on the paint and one sign broke on the post. The metal is easy to break.


----------



## mopac

Another pic of my 326. I have a 322 and a 326 Hudson. They both look pretty nice.
Might have to get a 324 Hudson.


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## AmFlyer

Nice engine. You seem to collect both link and knuckle coupler varieties.


----------



## mopac

Yes I have both. I would rather have all knuckle but link is fine. I have never converted
link to knuckle. I have a few cars that someone converted. I have a couple transition
cars with link on one end and knuckle on the other. They are hoppers. Easy to change
one of the trucks. Trucks are held on with screws not rivets. So I can run any of my cars.

There is no rhyme or reason to my collection. LOL.


----------



## cramden

Nice boxed 31 Tom. The inspection voucher is usually missing. Love the Hudsons mopac. I should get a 326, sold the one I had. Oh well. Here's a brown over white 633 boxcar. I'm not sure, but the chassis may be incorrect. My guides don't list this variation with 3 spring trucks.


----------



## hjstr6

*Repurpose*

I wanted to add to my 353 circus train. I already have the coach, but I wanted more without spending too much. I had obtained a AF Monon flatcar from a lot of junk I bought. I removed the trucks and brake wheel, striped off the decals, and painted it circus yellow. I bought the dry transfers form Portline and the repro circus trailers from Marty's. I am new to all this, but through all the threads and videos I was able accomplish this quite easily. Thank you.


----------



## AmFlyer

That 633 is in really great condition. It is 1953 production with sheet metal chassis, one piece brake wheel and Type 4 (3 spring trucks). I concentrated on buying 633's regardless of color with die cast chassis but I do have a couple of the 1953 Tuscan/white versions like yours. Looks completely original to me. As I recall that is variation H, but my memory may be off.


----------



## AmFlyer

Very nice job on that circus flat. As you know there were a few original 643's made in the dark red variation. I saw one at the DuPage show years ago but the seller wanted about triple the guide price at that time. So I made my own. Not sure I did as great a job as you did with the yellow one.


----------



## cramden

I thought it looked original, but the trucks threw me. That, and the fact my vol.1 book doesn't list a H variation, and says it was 46-50 if white. My older Greenberg also lists (H-M) as future variations under white but no examples are listed. Thanks for letting me know that its a legit. variation. I' starting to grow fond of the 3 spring truck cars which could be dangerous!


----------



## cramden

That looks great, what a cool alternative to spending big bucks for another circus flat. I might have to steal your idea. I have thought about buying more cars for my set and this might be a better idea. I hope you continue to add to this thread.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, the only watch out with 3 spring trucks are the 640 black hoppers. The trucks are too long, they run ok on straight track but as soon as they enter a curve the wheel flange rubs on the underbody. Not good. The ones I have get shelf display duty only.
I will see if I can find my red circus flat but I am not optimistic since I have no idea which crate it is in.


----------



## cramden

I have that 640 hopper Tom, part of the set 5323T that I found in the antique shop. The first time I ran it I thought the wheels were bent. Its not bad on straights, but on curves that's a different story. I put it at the back of the consist and hope it doesn't drag too much.


----------



## mopac

The circus flat with the trailers is way cool. I like it.
Nice job on it.


----------



## hjstr6

I purchased this artistic version of an American flyer 295 on marketplace. The previous owner painted it when he was 10 years old.at first I really wasn't interested in that particular train because there were so many other items in the lot. However when I held it in my hands I realize I had something special. I tried to remove the paint with different solvents but there was too much. I dismantled the boiler from the chassis and the body from the tender and put them through my bead blaster. Then following Dave's American flyer trains videos to the letter I refurbish all the components and painted the boiler and tender first with primer and then with satin black. I purchased the dry transfers from port line hobbies. It came out fantastic and runs like a dream.
View attachment 507852


----------



## hjstr6

Sorry I forgot this original picture.


----------



## Tallaman

hjstr6, considering the original condition of the loco with a paint job by a ten year old, it looks like you did a terrific job. I'll bet it is rewarding to see it run and look good. I don't see many 295's around.


----------



## hjstr6

I don't see many either and I wasn't sure what I had until I looked it up. It was a great find.


----------



## cramden

What a great job on the 295, it looks like new. The 295 was a one year only from 1951. The don't come up for sale too often and are generally higher priced depending on condition. Does the Air Chime Whistle work?


----------



## AmFlyer

The restored 295 looks great. For reference here is my Excellent condition original 295 nose to nose with its 290 stablemate. This picture was posted previously. That 295 redo must have taken some time.


----------



## Tallaman

AmFlyer said:


> The restored 295 looks great. For reference here is my Excellent condition original 295 nose to nose with its 290 stablemate. This picture was posted previously. That 295 redo must have taken some time.
> 
> View attachment 507870


Sweet. That's what I have...a 290, but not in nearly as good of condition.


----------



## hjstr6

It does come with an air chime whistle but I am working on that.


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## cramden

My 973 Gilbert's operating milk unloading car with it's 25018 box. The difference in the 25018 vs. the 25019 catalogued # for the 5 digit car I believe was the 25018 was the # assigned for a car that was being packaged in a cataloged set in 1957 instead of a separate sale car. Gilbert sure made the switch from 3 to 5 digits interesting and confusing. I think the 25019 stamped car came with the correctly numbered box in 1958 and later.


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## AmFlyer

Nice looking car and OB. Does the platform come in the box as well?


----------



## cramden

Yes, if you look to the left in the box pic it's in the back round on the layout. The 4 milk cans and the button along with the track trip are in the box. The white paint on the platform has started to flake off in spots. I sure wish Gilbert would have used primer on the bare metal parts before painting. The instructions and the inspectors voucher were not with the box when I purchased it.


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## AmFlyer

Ah, the 3 rail white fence.


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## mopac

Very nice milk car cramden.


----------



## AFGP9

Okay guys I finally got some pics to post but I seem to be stuck in limbo. I am stuck in "Images in category: Member layouts". How do I post them from there to here and where do I put in text? Maybe I picked the wrong way to do it?


----------



## mopac

We can help. Are your pics on a SD card?
Mine are and this is how I do it.
1. Plug your card into computer.
2. Click on "Post Reply" at end of thread.
3. Click on the Paper Clip
4. Click browse
5. Select pic
6. Click Upload
7. Click on Paper Clip
8. Click on what pops up.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac my pics are in a file in my computer. Usually when I post a pic to an email I just click on the paper clip shown which brings up all my pics. I then click on the file I want that has the needed pics. From there all I do is find the pic I want, click on it and it then transfers to the email as a pic number to be opened by the receiver. In this case all looked well, that is browser search boxes came up, I clicked on them one at a time, which then took me to my file of pics as usual. The chosen pics were transferred to the MTF site. I just don't know how to get them from where they are to the forum and when/how to add text. I expected to see a link to the forum where I could add text and then transfer the pics and text to the proper place.
I think if I had clicked on "Post Reply" as you say, I might have had success because all of what you said sounds normal procedure. Now I need to get them from the MTF "Images in category: Member layputs" where the pics are now. Maybe I should just start all over again.


----------



## AmFlyer

After you upload the picture files to the forum you need to click on the paperclip a second time. When you have done that, scroll down and click on Preview Post to verify all is well. If it is then click Post Reply.


----------



## cramden

Here's a 980 B&O boxcar from 1956/57.


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## mopac

Cramden, you really have some cool cars. And they look new. Congrats on a nice
collection.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer my picture files are up loaded to the section called "Images in category: Member layouts". How do I get them out of there and out into the forum? They are not on an SD card.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> Cramden, you really have some cool cars. And they look new. Congrats on a nice
> collection.


Thanks mopac, there are some nice pieces I've managed to get over the years. I've had a lot of enjoyment getting what I have and sometimes it's fun to just walk into the train room and just look at them. That's one of the reasons I put up shelves.


----------



## AFGP9

*Uploading pictures*

Mopac , let's say I start all over again. My pics were downloaded from my Android into a folder in my computer. I have no SD card. 

I just downloaded again using the steps you listed. I now have a downloaded list of pics after clicking upload as you said. I now have pictures in the "Current attachments" section but I don't see a second paper clip.


----------



## AFGP9

*Shaker281 Scenery*

































Here are pics of scenery using broken ceiling tile that I mentioned a while back. I have others of my track work that I also mentioned using AF track. When I figure out how I got his far, I will post the track pics.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac and AmFlyer, thank you for your help. Some how I managed to blunder into what just posted. Thank you for your help. So far I would say what I have accomplished has been dumb luck on my part. Now if I can only repeat it again.


----------



## AmFlyer

When you want to post pictures in this thread it is easiest to start at the last post in the thread and click on Go Advanced. Then type in the text, click on the paper clip, select pictures one by one, then click Upload, then click Close This Widow, then click on the paperclip again, then click Insert All. Always click on Preview Post to check your work, if all is well then click Post Reply.


----------



## AFGP9

Some of my AF engines either taken off the layout or waiting for repair or service. The 313 and the 290 on the table are in for maintenance service. The other 290 on the shelf is in front of a Lionel Scout set that I bought at an auction for $5.00. 

I took other pics of my K325, 322, 293, 282, and my 300AC but they were all fuzzy as though taken during an earthquake. All will be do overs and posted later. 

Guys if this works a second time, I think I may have figured out this picture posting caper. Again, thanks so much Mopac and AmFlyer.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks like success, two posts in a row!
Nice fleet of engines.


----------



## AmFlyer

I meant to say that broken ceiling tile scenery looks good. It looks a lot like eastern Missouri near Mopac.


----------



## cramden

Looks like you figured it out. It took me a few tries to post pics. You have quite a stable of engines. Thanks for posting and will be looking forward to seeing more.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer Tom, thanks for more great advise. I may become a picture posting, out of control, crazy person!


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, that is a nice decal on the 980.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden here is one of my 980’s I posted before. Yours has the better decal, many seem to have worn or faded even though the cars were not run on a layout.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Cramden. Most were bought years ago. I don't remember the last time I bought a new to me steam engine. I did once upon a time have a Rocket chrome set and 9 extra chrome passenger cars. I sold that Rocket set and all of the chrome cars because I just didn't like the way it went with my layout. Give me steam locomotives, some heavyweight passenger cars, with a few GP's thrown in, and I'm happy.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer, since I grew up in Southern Ill, (some say I've never grown up, even at 73 since I still "play with trains"), that is common rock formation down there too as well as Missouri. Also I have taken many vacation trips to and through Kentucky and Tennessee. That same rock type is all over down there. I always liked the strata look. I took lots of pictures on those trips so I had good references to go by.


----------



## AmFlyer

I lived for a while in the west suburbs and the city of Chicago. Pretty flat there with lots of good black topsoil. Nothing like those rock formations.


----------



## AFGP9

Yep pretty flat around here too, downstate from Chicago, although as you go towards Peoria there are a few hills but nothing like I was around in Southern Ill., Missouri, Tennessee, and Kentucky. 

The only good thing about this part of the state was the farm my dad bought when we moved to this area. As I related on here before, when we would come into town from the west, we past the Chicago & Alton, later GM & O, rail yards which was a large complex of repair and maintenance shops plus a rail yard. I was lucky enough to be around when there were still steam engines running at the time, right at the steam to diesel era. Seeing a bunch of steam engines sitting for various reasons was something I will never forget. There were several tracks for cars and trucks to cross so dad couldn't drive very fast. Great!! I loved it!! I would just sit and stare at all the steam engines either already steamed up for service or just sitting, as we crossed all those tracks. I think there were 5-6 tracks across the road. Of course they were always rough. That is where I no doubt developed the love of steam trains even though those evil diesel F and E unit engines, and GP 9's were sneaking in.


----------



## mopac

By Golly AFGP9, you got the pic thing down. Its all easy once you get the hang of it.
Yes, we have the layered rock here. I have a few stacks of ceiling tile I gathered up
for my HO layout. I will use some on the S layout. AFGP9, nice stable of steamers. I
see you have a 1948 Royal Blue. Me too.

The B&O boxcars are nice.


----------



## shaker281

AFGP9 said:


> Here are pics of scenery using broken ceiling tile that I mentioned a while back. I have others of my track work that I also mentioned using AF track. When I figure out how I got his far, I will post the track pics.


That looks very cool. I am familiar with those rock formations and yours look perfect. I appreciate all the trouble you went to getting them posted. I am going to experiment with the process once I find some ceiling tiles.


----------



## hjstr6

AFGP9, That is a handsome lineup of locos.


----------



## AmFlyer

For today I went back to a steam engine not frequently seen on layouts. This engine is a great runner and smoker. With the 2 step reverse unit it demands perfectly clean wheels and track so it does not suddenly reverse.
The 21005 PRR B6sb 0-6-0 Switcher.


----------



## mopac

Very cool locomotive. I have never seen a PRR switcher. Looks like in very nice condition.


----------



## AmFlyer

These are very nice engines made in 1957 and 1958, I have a 21004 and the 21005. The one pictured grades at Ex+ to LN. I have been tempted to have this engine converted so I can run it as a Legacy engine with operating couplers and sound. Somehow I just cannot bring myself to do that to this nice of a rare engine.


----------



## cramden

Tom, don't do it! That's way too nice to mess up. I have the 21004, but can't remember seeing a 21005 for sale at shows. They're fun engines to run with the 2 step reverse, but as you state, 2 step reverse units don't like dirty wheels or track.


----------



## cramden

Here's my K325 from 1952. Not an early one with the riveted knuckle coupler.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is in great condition.


----------



## cramden

Thanks, one of the rear tender steps is bent in slightly but its staying that way. It's also my only knuckle coupler Hudson presently.


----------



## shaker281

AmFlyer said:


> I meant to say that broken ceiling tile scenery looks good. It looks a lot like eastern Missouri near Mopac.


Yes, and a bit like the Wisconsin River around The Dells too. Very cool effect!


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer great looking switcher. Those don't show up very often at shows that I have attended. When they have, I have had to pass because the price was way out of touch. Way over the Greenberg listed price. Maybe some day. 

A big thank you to all that have commented on my locomotive line up. Like I said, I had some other pics of single locomotives that didn't turn out clearly so will retake again and post.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks for the compliment Hobo. More to come.

Thanks to you too Shaker281 regarding the ceiling tile rock formations.


----------



## mopac

cramden, I should have known your K325 would look like new. My 326 has a tender
step that is bent out some. Its staying that way also. does not bother me.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer Tom, you mentioned converting your 21004 to Lionel Legacy. First, please don't. Second, may I suggest an alternate method? TMCC. I love it. You don't get any more sound than you do now by using the TMCC since Gilbert AF engines are not TMCC equipped as you know but you do get way better low speed engine control which is great for a switcher as you have. Plus I can walk around and not be tethered to one spot with the hand held controller you see. It also controls all switches or I can use the AF switch controls. Basically the TMCC acts just like a direct wired transformer contolling engine speed. Here is what I did. 

All of the controls are mounted on a rolling control stand. That really isn't important to the TMCC but just my way of building a control center. As pictured you see the type Z Lionel transformer which has one side turned to 18V constant. The other side controls the section you see just in front of the stand. The 1133 setting there is used only for accessories and building lights and such. I do have other AF transformers I could have used as you see in the picture. Those 18B's, or the 4B in place of the Lionel 1133. The 18's were just too big in size. Therefore the 1133. I did use the 4B but for some reason when it was on for an extended period of time running accessories it got too warm in my opinion. 
Now the down side to using the TMCC system is cost and finding the system since it has been out of production for years. I have had mine for years, all bought new from my then local hobby shop. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, don't worry. I am not going to convert the 21005. I do have 20 TMCC/Railsounds engine conversions, all are American Models engines. When I said operate with my Legacy system I meant install the GGD TMCC/Railsounds boards, there are no aftermarket Legacy conversion boards. The 21005 is way too small to install the commercially available TMCC/Railsounds equipment. 
The layout operates with a Legacy system and the Layout Control System. Track is powered from a pair of ZW-L's. I can run conventional by simply controlling the track voltage with the CAB-2. The ZW-L starts at zero volts so it works well for very slow starts. The issue I have is only Line 2 is set up for easy conventional operation. The entire line is one Power District. The other two Lines are multiple Power Districts and involve switching the Cab2 4 times from PD to PD as the train runs. The layout was really built for Legacy control of Legacy and TMCC engines. I build seasonal Gilbert layouts to run the Gilbert engines.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I investigated all that you have described before I bought the TMCC version. I determined that since all I was ever going to run was pure Gilbert American Flyer, I wouldn't need the Legacy. As you may have noticed from my pics of my TMCC, I have the Cab1 and I bought only the Cab2 wiring control box to run accessories or what ever I needed. Since my layout is around the walls that hand held controller sure is a step savor and one time a train savor. (collision)

Like you, my main line is one power district. The part you see there in front of my control stand is a second power district so that I can run an engine back and forth in that tank car area. It can connect to the main eventually. One rail is cut to prevent absent minded people, (me) from running a GP into the closed main line switch. In other words, coming out of that tank car yard, the engine can only go as far as the cut is unless the diverging leg of the switch in the main is turned toward that track.

Good to know that you weren't or can't convert that great looking 21005. On the other hand as I have said before to people, your rail road, your choice. You are the COO.


----------



## AFGP9

I forgot to mention those who may have noticed the cord of the 1113 seems to be wrapped around it and maybe not working. Not so. There is a power strip mounted to the stand right in front of it. There are actually 3 strips mounted on the stand. I don't like everything plugged into one strip in case there is some sort of electrical problem. This way it is easy to isolate the issue.


----------



## AmFlyer

You have a good setup for remote controlled operation of Gilbert engines. Well thought out.
I operate only Legacy or Legacy compatible engines on my main layout. Occasionally I will run a Gilbert engine around Line 2 just for fun. I can only run those engines without the diesel horn or steam whistle since these sound constantly from the harmonics in the output waveform of the ZW-L. 
One of the advantages of using a Legacy base along with an LCS WiFi module is expensive Cab2's or hard to find Cab1's are no longer needed. Just purchase the App one time from the App store and it can be put on as many iPhones as you want. We had several old iPhones laying around no longer used so I now use them to run the trains. These are old 5's and 6's. They make great remote handhelds to run the trains.


----------



## AmFlyer

It has been quiet here today. I am still at the “house with no trains” in San Diego, so I looked through my picture archive for something to post. 
This is a rare Boys At The Crossing dealer display from the early 1950’s. It was mint in the OB with all the correct paper inside the box and excellent condition ink stampings on the OB. It was taken out and carefully assembled, then placed in a custom made plexiglass protective enclosure. I have had it for 12 years.


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## mopac

Cool display Tom. Never seen one of them.


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## cramden

Nice find Tom, was it a tough decision to remove it and display a mint item?


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## AmFlyer

Thanks guys. There is a story here so I will subject all you readers to it. The prior owner made the decision to assemble the display and had the plexiglass box built. I spoke with him extensively about the decision. When he decided to sell he put it on ebay before I could make an offer to buy it. The display attracted a number of bidders since these are extremely rare and are almost never sold in this condition. All but myself and one other bidder dropped out as the bid price climbed. As we went back and forth I got frustrated and put in a max price beyond all reason because I wanted it. The other bidder dropped well short of my max, thank goodness, so I won it.
I found out later the other bidder was Dennis Bagby, a friend of mine. Wish I would have contacted him! Most of you know who Dennis is without realizing it. If you have Volume 3 of the American Flyer photo books with pricing all of the sets photographed for that book were owned by Dennis. 
To give a direct answer, were the display still in the box I would have assembled it.


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## cramden

Interesting story Tom. When you said Dennis Bagby, I knew I had read that name at some point. He appears to have a fabulous collection from all the photos in the book. I probably would have assembled it too. Some things need to be seen to be fully appreciated. Anyway, here is a picture of my 316 K5 that I referenced the other day.


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## AFGP9

Very nice display item Tom. I too would have assembled it. Too nice to be hidden away.


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## AFGP9

My photo of the day. A 636 and a 936 Erie Cable cars. The 636 was already converted to knuckle couplers when I bought it.


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## mopac

Nice cable cars. I have bid on a few but still do not have one.


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## AFGP9

Thanks Mopac. The other side of the 636 is actually better looking. No marks like in the pic. Of course I wasn't paying attention when I took the photo. Those cars have some weight to them with the die-cast bodies and the reels combined.


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## mopac

Seems all my cars have a picture side.


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## AFGP9

Yep I know what you mean. Not all but some are that way in my collection.


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## AFGP9

Beware. They're out there!


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## shaker281

That is funny and a bit timely. I was going through my son's old stuff and found his Megabloks "Hanger 18". It is just like Lego. And i thought it would be funny to incorporate it into a layout. Pretty big though. Maybe inset it into a hill, like Cheyenne mountain.


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## AFGP9

Funny how sometimes brilliant minds think a like! That hanger does look a little big but if you put it far enough back from the front edge and in some sort of mountain scene, I think that would work. Maybe surround the hanger with mountains and have only a portion of it showing? The mountains would take some of the size away.


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## AFGP9

I mentioned a while back that I had an around the walls layout with a bridge connecting the 2 sides. It has been in operation for 3 years and still don't have the bridge deck done yet!! 
You can see in the last picture how the bridge hinges. It is actually 2 x 4 construction with Plastistruct side pieces to represent steel construction. The beveled track ends are shown a part and not touching to illustrate how the track current is transferred. The track on the bridge is wired as well as each end of track leading up to it. When lowered, the beveled ends make good solid contact. There are guides on the landing side to make sure of proper track alignment when the bridge is lowered. There was a lot of trial and error involved in that project!


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## shaker281

AFGP9 said:


> I mentioned a while back that I had an around the walls layout with a bridge connecting the 2 sides. It has been in operation for 3 years and still don't have the bridge deck done yet!!
> You can see in the last picture how the bridge hinges. It is actually 2 x 4 construction with Plastistruct side pieces to represent steel construction. The beveled track ends are shown a part and not touching to illustrate how the track current is transferred. The track on the bridge is wired as well as each end of track leading up to it. When lowered, the beveled ends make good solid contact. There are guides on the landing side to make sure of proper track alignment when the bridge is lowered. There was a lot of trial and error involved in that project!


Wow, that is way cool. I like your out-of-the-box thinking! Very ingenious. Thanks for sharing that. 

I've been wanting to ask: did you prepare the _edges_ of the ceiling tiles for your "bluffs" in any particular fashion? After breaking them to size, how did you shape them? Knife? Sanding? Other method?


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## AFGP9

Sahker281, thanks for the kind words regarding the bridge! 

As to the shaping of the of the ceiling tile, I started with a full piece of tile, cut down the middle, and moved it to the edge of my shop work bench because it has a 90 degree finished edge for better breaking. I drew an irregular line on the back side and tried to break off small pieces at a time after scoring the outline I had drawn. I wasn't trying to follow that line exactly. It was just a guide. Sometimes I would break off bigger chunks to vary the line. I also used pliers to break off small narrow pieces, varying how deep those breaks were. Each layer is glued together using Liquid Nails adhesive. The piece that juts out where the track curves around it in the one pic, is a piece by itself. When I was satisfied with the height and over all look, I then used a wire brushed to smooth some of the edges. I varied the wire brushing to get irregular edges, imagining water would have ran over the edges and smoothed some edges more than others. That is what I had observed with the real thing. 
I painted the edges with black, brown, and green, varying the color shades. I painted some of the pieces that are back from the edge black to give them a deeper, shadowed look. I also used touches of white for high lights. I have a lot of artist's acrylic paints so that is what I used. Reasonably cheap at Michael's, Hobby Lobby, or maybe Wal Mart. 
I built the whole thing in one long assembly on my bench. For ease of positioning and carrying to the layout, I built small sections at a time, about 2', with the ends staggered so when they were assembled on the layout, one end of a section is staggered back and the section next to that one was built with a corresponding over hang to match the staggered end, fitting like a puzzle. Remember, it was all assembled as you built it so there shouldn't be any fitting problems. Besides, you don't want a perfect look. Also, using the small sub assemblies, you can change the the angle of each as well. 

A word of warning. You will make a mess. Also do not throw away any scraps. They make great random rock piles and also can be used for fallen chunks at the bottom of your cliffs. 
The main thing about this rock making method is, you don't have to be perfect. No need to. 

Hope that information helps. 
Kenny


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## shaker281

That's good info and it definitely helps, thanks for that. Did you use a "dry brush method" or a "wash" or apply the paint undiluted? Also, did you stack the pieces textured side up or textured side down?


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## AmFlyer

It has been a while since I had any free time to dig into my collection. I wanted to make a single post of 715’s that included all the Manoil Coupe color variations. Unfortunately they are not all in one place and at least three are part of sets in set boxes. I thought I would begin with these two that were in the first place I looked. These are the green and silver and solid blue. Note the green and silver coupe is on the blueish gray ramp variation of the 715 unloading car.


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer, nice 715's and automobiles. I always wanted at least one of those 715's. When I start on a series of cars, I try and get every variation. With these 715's that could be a sizable investment. 
I did see a first year 1946 Tootsietoy Armored Car 715 with box at a show a couple of years ago. Nice price too. No I didn't buy it. I need to complete my other series of cars before starting on something new.


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## AFGP9

Shaker281, I since I was using acrylic artist paints, I used many different methods. Some of the colors are straight up out of the tube. Others are different colors mixed then thinned and yes sometimes I dry brushed. Since I have dabbled in art and used to paint pictures, the paint mixing hues and colors was no big deal. Also some of the colors are thinned with a dab of water. You'll just have to educate yourself on the paint application and color mixing. It was easy for me but maybe not for other people. I suggest black, white, medium green, brown and yellow tubes of the paint. Get as small a tube as you can since it won't take much and with the colors I mentioned you can mix unlimited color combinations. Brands I have are Liquitex Basics tubes and Delta Ceramcoat 2 oz. bottles. Check Michel's or Hobby Lobby. I have found Delta Ceramcoat marked down for close out pricing at Michel's before. 

The ceiling tile is glued with the back side down since it was easier to draw the guide lines on a semi-smooth surface using a Magic Marker. The ceiling tile I got had an irregular pattern of grooves on the face side. I could have gotten the smooth face type but when I went to get my tiles I asked for any broken pieces and was directed to the type I ended up with. I either got them free or for very little money. Home Depot, Menards, and Lowe's.


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## mopac

I have been letting down the thread I started. I will try to get back to it this weekend.
I need to take some new pics. And/or find my other SD cards. Hope to see you soon.

Tom, good looking turntable and roundhouse.


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer, after seeing your 715's the other night, I decided to educate myself on them. I first went to eBay and found several of the armored car 715's along a few other types. I didn't know they used so many different color combinations of those armored cars. Is that for real? I checked my "American Flyer Trains" written by David Doyle and there is no mention of so many armored truck colors. It does however list and show several different vehicle colors and the rail car variations as you alluded to. If the many different colors of that armored car is correct, I think it was 5, that would reinforce my thought of a sizable investment in collecting all the different 715's types of rail cars plus all the different vehicle loads and their color variations. 
That thought aside, I like the 2 you show. Had I known about these things when I was working and before retirement, maybe........? 

As a side note, I just got my November issue of Classic Toy Trains. What do you suppose is the last article in the magazine? If you guessed an article on the 715's, you'd be correct. In fact there is a picture of a silver and blue car on the 715 car. Oh and also I didn't know 715 was given a new number, 915, in 1953 with gas trucks as the vehicle load. There again, more than one color of gas truck. I think I'm getting a headache over this. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

flyernut, a while back you mentioned something about purchasing the white version of the 640 hopper car. Here are some pics of the 640's I have. The white one appears to be a little cream color but that is a photo deal. It really is white. Note the marble one. Yeah it has a scratch and some kind of a mark near the "A" in the word "American" and the other gray 640 has a smudge near "A'" on that one but until I can find better ones, these one will do. Not a very good pic of all 3 but you get the idea. Finding the marble version was the hardest since I knew it was out there. Now all I need is the black lettered version of the gray one. 

ATTACH]508762[/ATTACH]


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## AFGP9

flyernut, a while back you mentioned something about purchasing the white version of the 640 hopper car. Here are some pics of the 604's I have. The white one appears to be a little cream color but that is a photo deal. It really is white. Note the marble one. Not a very good pic of all 3 but you get the idea. 

Looks like I have somehow created a duplicate post. I couldn't get rid of the second. 

View attachment 508762


View attachment 508764


View attachment 508766


View attachment 508768


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I made a decision to collect the Manoil Coupe versions of the 715. I am no expert on the armored car loads. Gilbert purchased them from a supplier so there could be colors that were not used by Gilbert. 
I have 10 of the 715's almost all in original packaging, some as part of sets. I have the green, green and silver, blue, blue and silver, red, red and silver loads. 
There are several color variations of the gas trucks on the 915. I do not have them, need a few boundaries in my collecting.


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## AmFlyer

Nice 640's. I never noticed a 640 with marbelling. The most common marbeled items are control buttons. A lot of 360 shells are like that but who wants to strip off the finish to see it.


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## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> flyernut, a while back you mentioned something about purchasing the white version of the 640 hopper car. Here are some pics of the 640's I have. The white one appears to be a little cream color but that is a photo deal. It really is white. Note the marble one. Yeah it has a scratch and some kind of a mark near the "A" in the word "American" and the other gray 640 has a smudge near "A'" on that one but until I can find better ones, these one will do. Not a very good pic of all 3 but you get the idea. Finding the marble version was the hardest since I knew it was out there. Now all I need is the black lettered version of the gray one.
> 
> ATTACH]508762[/ATTACH]
> 
> View attachment 508764
> 
> 
> View attachment 508766
> 
> 
> View attachment 508768


Yep, that's the "white" version, more like cream.


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## AFGP9

Tom I don't know why or how I knew there was a marble version of that 640. The one I got was from a train show. I was looking at various hoppers and just happened to see the marble one so grabbed it. The guy selling had several gray 640's but he either didn't know about the marbled version or didn't care. Either way I got it for $7.00. 
Another seller had the white one. He actually had three but 2 of them were not as nice as the one I bought for $10.00. I already had several of the regular gray ones although when you line them all up end to end, there is a difference in shades of gray.


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## cramden

Nice 640 hoppers AFGP9. I wasn't aware of marbled 640's, good find. I wouldn't be too concerned about any faults on it, none of my guides even list this variation, so you have something very uncommon. There are known marbled 632 L.N.E. hoppers, The Gilbert Gallery has a couple of pictures of them. I didn't spend the bulk of my purchases on link coupler items, and in retrospect, there appears to be a lot more variations of the link cars than the knuckle cars. I don't recall looking for these as I was focused on the knuckle coupler cars during my working days. The only white ones I have seen are way too pricey for their condition that appear on ebay at times.


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## AmFlyer

Don't forget the painted version.
I planned at the beginning to collect link coupler stuff as a way of putting boundaries on my collecting. Then I made an exception to buy some LN Boxed KC sets. Then I made an exception for the 980 series boxcars, then I made an exception for the 950 series heavyweight passenger cars, Then I made an exception for...(just fill in something expensive.)
My real downfall was when Lionel released the Big Boy in S gauge! Then I needed all the AM Budd and Heavyweight passenger cars, a lot of SHS and AM freight cars with free rolling trucks and a lot more Legacy engines. Apparently my will power is fantastic but my won't power is lacking.


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## cramden

Nice 715's Tom. I especially like the blue/grey variation. I'm looking forward to more pics. when you can. It makes it more reliable when you can document loads based on original packaging. I only have one link 715 with a red solid Manoil coupe and one 915 That was part of set 5520T that I bought of a fellow years ago in the parking lot of a Greenberg show. He was selling for a friend and I was able to purchase it before he went inside to see if any dealer was interested. It was missing the Renwal gas truck, but I found something that worked. It's a metal London Toy fuel truck made in Canada. The last pic is a Manoil convertible that's was repainted at some time. One other oddity I noticed on my 715 is the 3 spring truck on the side without the activation lever. Maybe you can answer that since you have quite a large sample of these. Thanks in advance.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks for that picture. I heard about the 3 spring variation but had not seen one that nice. My original 715 is identical to yours with the solid red coupe but both trucks are two spring. It was part of the 370 freight set, 1952 version. When I get home next week I can post several more of the 715's.


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## cramden

Thanks Tom. To be honest, I didn't realize it had a 3 spring truck until I was posting the picture. It's nice to know that and a solid red car. I always see the coupes with silver trim and wasn't sure it was correct. One could spend a whole lot of money collecting these with the various loads, and the circus flats with their different combinations.


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## flyernut

Got all this for $20 bucks on ebay. No one bid on it....


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## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Don't forget the painted version.
> I planned at the beginning to collect link coupler stuff as a way of putting boundaries on my collecting. Then I made an exception to buy some LN Boxed KC sets. Then I made an exception for the 980 series boxcars, then I made an exception for the 950 series heavyweight passenger cars, Then I made an exception for...(just fill in something expensive.)
> My real downfall was when Lionel released the Big Boy in S gauge! Then I needed all the AM Budd and Heavyweight passenger cars, a lot of SHS and AM freight cars with free rolling trucks and a lot more Legacy engines. Apparently my will power is fantastic but my won't power is lacking.


Sounds familiar, I started with 3 digit knuckle couplers only. My wife bought me a pair of dark green 650 series heavyweights for my birthday one time when I dragged her to a show. The link heavyweights really grew on me and then the New Havens. I never bought any painted heavyweights, every time I found any that was in the condition I liked, the price I didn't like. I did draw the line with any thing that's not Gilbert, and even sold all of the Flyonel I owned.


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## cramden

flyernut said:


> Got all this for $20 bucks on ebay. No one bid on it....
> View attachment 508812


What a steal. The 24316 is worth more than $20 dollars. The 938 caboose is the variation with 2 couplers vs. the bob tail type which only had a coupler on one wheel set.


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## AmFlyer

You had to bring up circus flat loads. I have most but not all of the possible animals in the cage. I also have the painted and unpainted versions of the yellow coach. Someday I will get to all those things with camera in hand.


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## flyguy55

flyernut there is a white "creme" color 640 hopper on ROC craigslist.It is for sale with a 300AC......


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## flyernut

flyguy55 said:


> flyernut there is a white "creme" color 640 hopper on ROC craigslist.It is for sale with a 300AC......


Thanks!!!


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## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> You had to bring up circuits flat loads. I have most but not all of the possible animals in the cage. I also have the painted and unpainted versions of the yellow coach. Someday I will get to all those things with camera in hand.


Well, I thought you might be a player for those since you collect linkers and variations.I never had an interest in all things circus, not realistic enough for me, but did buy the circus and farm cutouts that Greenberg came out with years ago. Then my wife went with me to the First Frost in Allentown years ago. A vendor had 2 die-cast circus flats with original cages, but missing the tractors, and the unpainted yellow coach. She liked them and thought my youngest grand daughter would like them(she was correct.) Then I needed a 353 to pull them, so found a nice example at a different vendor that I was purchasing other items from. I ended up bundling all of the items that he had that I was interested in and made an offer that was accepted. So it's not an original boxed set, but its acceptable to me. 2 repro tractors at a vendor and one missing finial on one cage. Turns out my wife seems to know more about me than I do, I wouldn't have spent the money on the circus items but I'm glad that I have them. I'll take pics of them when I can.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, my circus set story is similar. One month my wife came with me to the DuPage train show. John Heck was there with his usual stacks of like new condition items. One was a circus set OB&SB with strong set number stamp etc. The price was in nosebleed territory. After John and I finished chatting and I bought a few things my wife said “aren’t you buying the Circus set? I like it.” Needless to say it came home with us. Worse, every time John got another flat with load variation he contacted my wife.


----------



## cramden

Yes they are nosebleed items. Glad you got it, and hope your nose didn't bleed too much! I saw an empty set box on the bay that sold for around $500.00, just the box without cut outs or any other related items, and the box wasn't a brick. I have seen original tractors for sale but they're usually above $50. It's not a priority at this point in my life. Here's a pic of mine up on the seldom run shelf.


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## AmFlyer

Once again, exceptionally nice display shelves, very neat and organized. The 5002T set boxes with readable number stamps are very expensive. throw in the engine wrapper and the miscellaneous inspection slips and tags and they can sell for over $500. 
My wife wanted the set so how could I regret the purchases? The three additional flat cars with the different animals plus the painted coach added up to 50% of the set purchase price. All these were in OB’s with legible number stamps.


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## cramden

It's a wise man that listens to his wife, happy wife...happy life. It sounds like you have quite the high end collection from your posts. Have any of your items been photographed for any of the guides?


----------



## AmFlyer

Nothing of mine was photographed for the guide books. Back 20 years ago when many of these were first written there were people with very large collections, kind of a one stop shop for the authors and photographers. My collection is not nearly that large. 
Take for example Dennis Bagby, his inventory was at least 20 times what I had. In addition many of his sets were of known provenance. Many of the sets pictured in the Volume 3, Sets, were purchased from the collection of the owner of Gladys Trains in San Diego when she passed away. These were unsold original sets always in her possession until Dennis purchased them. Knowing the provenance is important for authenticity of the set contents.
My only minor claim to fame is I purchased from Dennis one of the sets used in the book.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, I made a decision to collect the Manoil Coupe versions of the 715. I am no expert on the armored car loads. Gilbert purchased them from a supplier so there could be colors that were not used by Gilbert.
> I have 10 of the 715's almost all in original packaging, some as part of sets. I have the green, green and silver, blue, blue and silver, red, red and silver loads.
> There are several color variations of the gas trucks on the 915. I do not have them, need a few boundaries in my collecting.


 Tom you mentioned having boundaries in your collecting. I have had to set boundaries as well.....money! Or lack there of. Funny how retirement affects buying habits---at least that's my limiting boundary. I am looking forward to seeing the other 715's you have.


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## AmFlyer

I am feeling the pressure! Unfortunately I cannot do anything until I am at home with some unbooked time. 
Retirement tends to increase discretionary time available but decrease discretionary income. Funny how this works. For me some train items are in the base expenses plan. I elected to retire in June 2018. That lasted until last month when I was "recalled to active duty" as I jokingly refer to the event. So now the income is there but the free time is at the moment almost zero.


----------



## AFGP9

cramden said:


> Nice 640 hoppers AFGP9. I wasn't aware of marbled 640's, good find. I wouldn't be too concerned about any faults on it, none of my guides even list this variation, so you have something very uncommon. There are known marbled 632 L.N.E. hoppers, The Gilbert Gallery has a couple of pictures of them. I didn't spend the bulk of my purchases on link coupler items, and in retrospect, there appears to be a lot more variations of the link cars than the knuckle cars. I don't recall looking for these as I was focused on the knuckle coupler cars during my working days. The only white ones I have seen are way too pricey for their condition that appear on ebay at times.


 Cramden I too bought only knuckle coupler cars ignoring link versions until the last couple of years. I have some of those 632 L.N.E. hoppers but none are marbled. The ones I have are variations of gray color and the red circle logo. I do have a black version as well but can't locate it. I must like playing tricks on myself since it should have been with the gray ones!! 
No gray painted die-cast though. Had one in my hands once at a show but passed on it since the seller wanted a firm $120 for it and it had a nice scratch through the round side logo plus was missing one of the underneath doors. I can accept some flaws on cheaper cars but not at that price point. You referenced The Gilbert Gallery. It says there are 14 different variations of the 632! The variations are for that center red logo and the trucks and couplers.


----------



## AFGP9

flyernut said:


> Got all this for $20 bucks on ebay. No one bid on it....
> View attachment 508812


 That's some lucky buy you got there flyernut. I can't believe nobody bid on it!! Looks like a bunch of nice stuff. Usually when I bid on something on eBay, everybody and his dog bids as well.


----------



## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> That's some lucky buy you got there flyernut. I can't believe nobody bid on it!! Looks like a bunch of nice stuff. Usually when I bid on something on eBay, everybody and his dog bids as well.


I've stopped my ebaying almost entirely. I saw this bunch of stuff and put in the sellers starting bid, just wanting to bid on SOMETHING.Much to my surprise I got a invoice in my email, and I couldn't figure out what it was for,lol...


----------



## AFGP9

My photo of the day is my 322 sitting on the "posing track".


----------



## mopac

Nice looking 322. They are great locomotives.
Paint looks very nice.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Mopac. I have a K325 which will I post shortly that also has nice paint as well. I bought them both at the same time from John Heck at DuPage a few years back. Near as I could tell they neither one were repainted. I wouldn't doubt John Heck's word as he always had good stuff. That is what kind of got me away from buying locomotives from eBay. Going to a show and being able to look and handle locomotives up close and personal. I have bought nice locomotives from eBay but not many. Kind of stopped with eBay lately.


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## AmFlyer

I have bought many items from John over the past 30 years. He can always be trusted and he was always a conservative condition grader.


----------



## mopac

*326*

















I got this 326 off ebay. I was happy with it and sent seller a message about the strong cab numbers. He admitted it had been
renumbered but not repainted engine. It is ok with me. I do like
strong cab numbers. Yes, I would like to hold before I buy but I come across nothing around here.
Seller should have said something in his ad.

I have a 322 and a 326, a K325 would be cool to have.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, is that number an ink stamp or a dry transfer? In the picture it looks like a stamp, those are hard to do that well.
Today seems to be Hudson day. Keeping with that theme this is a picture of my original 1950 322AC Hudson. Staged in front of it is a Legacy UP Challenger. The reason I took this picture is both of these engines were Christmas gifts-60 years apart! 1950 and 2010.


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## mopac

Both are fine locomotives Tom. Beautiful. Great pic. I have a 3985 Challenger in HO.
I have seen the real 3985 here in St Louis.

I don't know about the 326 cab numbers. I agree it looks like a stamp.


----------



## AmFlyer

Were they dry transfers you would be able to see the edge of the numbers. I did not know the original 3985 was in St Louis.


----------



## cramden

Three very nice Hudsons guys. I believe the Challenger is in the roundhouse at Cheyenne. AFGP9, don't forget the die-cast 632 LNE from 1946. Here's a picture of my Circus coach. This is the unpainted plastic body with a die-cast frame, paper diffuser, and clear window glazing.


----------



## AFGP9

I agree with mopac, Tom. Fine looking locomotives and and nice scene. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Cramden I referenced the die-cast LNE the other night. I related a story about having one in my hands at a show but the seller wanted $120 firm and it had a scratch through the side logo plus was missing one of the bottom doors. I passed on it. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

I forgot to comment on your circus coach. Very sharp. That is one area, the circus stuff, I've never ventured into. I know a guy who has 3 complete sets of those plus with who knows how many variations of various things like different color wagons or rail cars and I think animals too. He offered to sell me a set but I declined. He also has a circus tent with I don't know how many people, animals, and extra circus cars staged in front of his display. One of those sets he runs on his layout . The rest are display pieces. He has really worked hard at getting everything Gilbert made. 
His circus tent set up is a very nice display. 

Kenny


----------



## cramden

AFGP9 said:


> Cramden I referenced the die-cast LNE the other night. I related a story about having one in my hands at a show but the seller wanted $120 firm and it had a scratch through the side logo plus was missing one of the bottom doors. I passed on it.
> 
> Kenny


My error then, I thought you were talking about a Virginian die-cast hopper you passed on. AmFlyer has quite the collection of various Circus loads along with a boxed set. There is an interesting article on the NASG website about all of the different Circus items. https://www.nasg.org/AF/Articles/CircusCages.php Another picture of different cages and cars is here, scroll down to the Flyernut meeting at York. http://myflyertrains.org/


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## AmFlyer

It sounds like the person Kenny knows has a few more circus pieces than I do, three complete sets! I think one of my coaches has a die cast chassis like the nice one Cramden posted. The nicest thing about the D/C chassis is the steps.


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## AFGP9

cramden said:


> My error then, I thought you were talking about a Virginian die-cast hopper you passed on. AmFlyer has quite the collection of various Circus loads along with a boxed set. There is an interesting article on the NASG website about all of the different Circus items. https://www.nasg.org/AF/Articles/CircusCages.php Another picture of different cages and cars is here, scroll down to the Flyernut meeting at York. http://myflyertrains.org/


Hey thanks for those links. I especially enjoyed the one from MyFlyerTrains.org because of the article showing how to build that AF steam engine tester. I have a commercial one but I think I like the one shown better so I will build one. 

Regarding the circus information, I am convinced even more that I made the right decision to never get involved with that stuff. It looks like about the time you think you have every variation of every cage, rail car, or animals, one more turns up and the hunt would be on again. Seems to me like a person would have to spend most of your time looking for all of it, not to mention who knows how much money. I know that the guy I mentioned with the 3 sets and the many variations of everything has a ton of money tied up and has spent untold hours and miles chasing down leads to just one piece and buying it. 
I will admit to being intrigued by the circus stuff once upon a time. Years ago when I saw some circus stuff at a show, I thought about maybe getting involved but then I looked into all the then known variations and said no. Then later more variations turned up. I consulted the guy with the 3 sets once and he showed me his collection, up to that point, which today is way bigger now.

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Some additional pictures of 715’s today and, for me, a real surprise. The first picture is the 715 with the solid green Manoil Coupe load. The unloading car is the same one the solid Blue coupe I posted earlier is on, I did not bother to get out the unloader for the green car. 
The second and third pictures are of my original 715 That came in the 370 set I received for Christmas of 1952. I was still too young to remember receiving the set. That 715 has a lot of miles on it. Since it was in a set box it came in just the stamped wrapper, not the separate sale outer box. Much to my surprise I just noticed for the first time the truck without the sliding shoe is a 3 spring truck!!! Of course the other alternative is I used to know but forgot. That is too scary so I am going with “first time I ever noticed.”


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

Moe and Joe lumber un-loaders


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

AF Rocket Launcher
(Sorry about two posts today. I am struggling with my computer and I wanted to post this while my mine is a littler clearer.


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## AmFlyer

Both are nice action cars.


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## mopac

The other day it was Hudson day. Today it is flat car day. Last
night I was adding my PikeMaster cars to my inventory list.
One was this New Haven flat car. This is a first for me, it has
no road number. Maybe at one time it had a body or a load
that had the road number. If anybody has an answer please inform me.

All the axles are metal so they should roll ok.

Nice cars Broke.

.


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## AmFlyer

The New Haven flatcar was used to carry a variety of loads. The only version that did not have the number of the car under the small NH on the left side in the picture is the 24564 1960 uncatalogued pipe carrier. The problem is those all had Pikemaster trucks and yours does not.


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## cramden

Tom, I think you got the car id. correct. If you look again at the trucks, they are indeed PikeMaster plastic ones. So most likely the car is a 24564 from 1960. Maybe mopac can confirm this.


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## cramden

Nice cars B.C. It's always fun to have some cars that do something. I never had any as a kid so I have quite a few of the different types.


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## mopac

cramden and Tom, the trucks do kinda look like sintered trucks in the pic, but they are
PikeMaster trucks. Why no road number? The car is so light, I think I will use it to carry my 3
1/64 diecast farm tractors. That should add some weight.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, I looked at the trucks several times blown up on my 40” 4K monitor. I really thought they were sintered. If plastic Pikemaster then it is absolutely the 24564 as you say.


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## cramden

Nice Green coupe Tom, I don't recall seeing a solid green one. As to the 3 spring truck you discovered, I rather enjoy finding things I have that I didn't know about. My most recent example was the Red painted 633 boxcar and the 633-R box stamp, because you brought up the subject. Thanks again for the lesson. Edit: I had to look closely and go back to the original sale post to make sure it was the same car.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, there was more than one car made without the car number on them. Who knows why Gilbert approved the stamps for production W/O the car number??!!


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## mopac

Thanks for the info guys.


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## cramden

I thought I might as well post the rest of my Circus set since They all came down to dust them off. Here is the first flat. This one has the standing lion in the red cage and the tiger in the blue one. I have heard it called a panther or a female lion, but I go with tiger. I could be wrong with that assumption. One interesting thing about the red cage is that the wheels have the pot holes in the rims. In reading the article on the N.A.S.G. web site about Circus loads, they are described as the second generation wheels. The flat is the die-cast one variation.






The tractor is a repro as mentioned before.


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## AmFlyer

To elaborate on Mopac’s earlier point about why is the number not on the flat car; the most common car I know of that never had the number printed on the car is the 634 floodlight.


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## cramden

There's no number on the Circus flat car either, I just looked at the pic. I posted.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, nice picture of the circus flat and loads. One of these days I will find my set, but while looking for it I found some other neat items I will begin posting tomorrow.
Back to the 715. There is one reported Manoil load I do not have, the Orange coupe. I have seen pictures of them on layouts. In all my years of collecting I never saw a boxed, documented 715 with an orange coupe on it. I might be wrong but it is possible Gilbert never sold any and all the Orange coupes were bought in 5 & 10's and added later to the 715's. I am suspicious until proven wrong. Had I seen one I would have bought it at any price. Even John Heck and Dennis Bagby did not have any. If anyone spots one let me know.


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## cramden

I have never seen an Orange coupe. I know there were Orange racers in 1953/54 914's. I do remember reading in Greenberg's Vol. 2 in the chapter on variations that the Manoil coupes had the silver painted trim put on at the Manoil Toy Co. factory to make them different from the coupes sold in stores. Supposedly, solid colored cars were sent when Gilbert ran out of existing stock of already decorated coupes. I did read the chapter again to correct a few memory lapses.  Some clarifications, the Orange racer was made by Tootsietoy and the silver trim paint was done at the Manoil Toy factory for Gilbert.


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## AFGP9

Nice red and green cars on your 715 Tom. You have sparked my interest in those 715's and their various car loads. I've been checking eBay to see what they are selling for. Even though I have stopped buying off ebay, I still use it as sort of a guide. Maybe I'll get lucky like flyernut did?? Not likely with those cars. 

Broke I have always liked the Moe and Joe car. Sharp looking car. Don't know why I never bought one yet. I have the flat car to the Rocket Launcher but nothing else. Got it in a box of odds and ends at an auction. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Some guides list an orange version of the Manoil coupe, I have never seen one. Just because I have not seen it does not mean it does not exist. (A line from Tim Allen's The Santa Clause.)
If any of you have a copy of the June 1991 issue of CTT look at the article on Mike Kolosseus amazing Branford and Western layout. On p58 there is a picture of a parking lot at his train station, the lot is full of cars that were used as unloading car loads. In the upper right there is an orange Tootsie Toy racer, a very distinctive color compared to all the red cars. In the lower left there is a Manoil coupe that appears to be orange and silver. The color is a lot different than the racer and very close to the red coupes. Were it on its own I would likely think it was red but since it is adjacent to a red coupe is looks different. Unfortunately the resolution and colors of the pictures are not as good as what is printed today to enable us to be 100% certain.


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## mopac

The Manoil cars are very cool. Nice collection Tom.
Orange and silver would be a neat find.


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## AmFlyer

For today’s picture I have a common set in a very rare set box. This set number was not listed in the Gilbert catalogs, but it is not an “uncatalogued” set. This set has never been unpacked from its SB. It is completely factory fresh.
Later today I will pst a picture of the set instructions so everyone will know what the 20000 set is.


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## cramden

A teaser!!! Never heard of a 20000 number before. A guess would put the set around 1956 based on the box label. Just went through my index of Classic Toy Trains, don't have that one, and of course I looked for my TM hardback book "Great Toy Train Layouts" that features Michael K's layout, and seemed to have misplaced that. I was wondering if that had some similar pics as the magazine article.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, I went to the Layouts book first. It has pictures of the layout but not one that shows the lot with the cars in it. I was also surprised at the relatively poor quality of the printed pictures in that book. At that point I had no option but to get out the CTT magazines. Unlike my train collection the magazines are in binders in date order. CTT has an index of articles on their site so I found the article in about 10 minutes.
I will post the answer on the 20000 set later today.


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## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Cramden, I went to the Layouts book first. It has pictures of the layout but not one that shows the lot with the cars in it. I was also surprised at the relatively poor quality of the printed pictures in that book. At that point I had no option but to get out the CTT magazines. Unlike my train collection the magazines are in binders in date order. CTT has an index of articles on their site so I found the article in about 10 minutes.
> I will post the answer on the 20000 set later today.


My wife was gracious enough to go through all my Magazines when I thought about getting rid of some of them. She wrote down all of the dates by year starting with the first copy to when I stopped buying them. I saved what I thought was all of the Flyer articles from them and got rid of the rest, donated to our local library. I might have missed this particular one or I never had it to begin with. Anyway, I would still be going through each one had I not had an index to check. I believe past copies are available for sale at C.T.T.


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## cramden

Here is Circus flat #2 with a Gorilla and another tiger. Again, the tractor is a repro. Red and Blue must have been a common color for the flats.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, another nice circus flat.
You should resist those urges to get rid of train items. It is a shame if you had the 6/91 issue and got rid of it. Here is the picture that shows the lot. One is the full view, the other is a closeup. The racer is clearly orange. I am still not sure if the coupe next to the green car is red or an orange color.


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## cramden

Thank for the pictures, he did have a fantastic layout and collection. I hadn't seen this pic. so maybe I didn't ever have that issue. He also remade a lot of the Flyer accessories with Erector set parts. If I had to bet on the coupe color, I would go with red vs. orange. To me it looks closer to the other reds in the pic. including the racer in the lower left next to the blue coupe of the close up picture. Thanks again for the comment on the flat, far from perfect, but good enough for the moment.


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## AmFlyer

Here is the rest of the story on the very rare 1957 production 20000 set. There is at least one other since it is listed in Bob Tuft’s set book. Sorry about the sideways picture, I tried all the controls but could not right it. The picture is correct in my photo library.


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## cramden

That's one of two known, what a find. I don't have the Tufts book so never heard of it. I know the 5300T from 1954 was catalogued, wonder if this was left over stock going to a specific retailer in 1957. I did see a complete Miner's work train with the individual white boxes for the tipple cars for sale, but passed on it. It didn't have any set box. It would be interesting to know what area of the country the known 2 sets are from as to maybe establish if this was a regional set put together for a retailer or a prize of some kind. Love to see some of the boxes even if you don't open them and take a pic. of the packaged contents. Now that's an item that the extremely rare tag fits. Congrats again.


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## mopac

cramden, very nice #2 circus flat. You 2 guys really have nice collections. Something to
be proud of. Do you both have the Greatest Show coach.?


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## cramden

mopac said:


> cramden, very nice #2 circus flat. You 2 guys really have nice collections. Something to
> be proud of. Do you both have the Greatest Show coach.?


I'm sure Tom has one since he has a boxed Circus set. Here is mine I posted a while back, this thread is getting long and you may have missed it. https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=2454072&postcount=624


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## AmFlyer

I am sure there are more than two of these but likely far less than 100. I asked several large collectors over the years and only one had seen one. I purchased this from John Heck, he got it from the original owner. It is not listed in the Bubek and Garrigues rarity Guide so that suggests just a few were made. The box has a 1954 date but we do not know if the set was packed in 1954 and labeled for sale in 1957 or if the factory had some old boxes they used. Only the 5300T used this set box.
Looking down inside the box the 690 track clip in its still stapled shut envelope is visible, the boxed circle of track is under the envelope. The transformer and the handcar boxes are next. The tipple car boxes are on the bottom, they are plain white cardboard with the car color stamped on the end flap. There is more printed paper under them but I never took the cars out to see what it was. I will post the pictures separately.


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## AmFlyer




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## AmFlyer

Mopac. I have three 649 circus coaches. Two are unpainted plastic on die cast chassis and the third is yellow painted on a sheet metal chassis. The 5002T set has one of the unpainted cars and it is in its OB inside the SB. One day I will find all my circus stuff to photograph and post. In the interim I found some other interesting things to share.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, what I know is this. Through John I know the provenance of the set, it was purchased in either 1957 or 1958. The label had to be printed after Q1 of 1957 since it is 5 digits. I cannot see any date stamps on any of the OB's inside the SB. I can confirm there is not a 1954 label under the 1957 label and this is the only label ever applied to the box.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, this is the 667th post in this thread. Thanks for starting us off. It has gained traction and shows no sign of dying off. I personally have learned a lot of new things from the postings. In the process of looking through my collection for items to photograph and post I have seen things I either forgot about or had not seen in a decade.


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## cramden

I think this was a great idea mopac, thanks for starting it. I have learned a lot of things with everyone's posts. Thanks again for complementing about my collection. I learned a long time ago that I can only collect what I can afford and never regretted what I couldn't. Tom's collection is on a different level than mine, but I get to see things I could only dream of having thru his posts. I'm at a point that there are things I'd like to have, but don't need to have. I still plod along and sometimes I find something that gets my attention, but generally pass because I don't want to sell anything to make room for something new.


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## mopac

I was watching one of the circus coaches on ebay today. It was up to $70 something.
Thought I might go $85, well it went for $97. I had no idea what it was worth. It was
very nice, like new. I think seller graded it at C8. it was in storage for 60 years. I do not know if it was painted or unpainted. It was a nice one. Too nice for me LOL.

We are all seeing some cool stuff on this thread. Some of us will need to start over on pics. But that is ok. I knew this thread would
be a hit. It was on my diecast forum. I started a pic thread there also. We all like pics of our hobby.


Over 17,000 views!!!


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, an accurately graded C8 unpainted 649 would sell for over $50, $97 sounds a little high unless it included the OB with a legible number stamp. A painted C8 649 is much more rare and expensive. I would expect $200 for one of those.


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## AmFlyer

For my contribution today here are pictures of my 1960 20610 Dispatcher set. The 20610 is one of a few sets that used a foldout advertising display as part of the set. The cardboard insert is accurately cut to hold each item and bold black text tells the potential purchaser what each item is.


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## AmFlyer

One more picture with legible car numbers.


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## AmFlyer

Hmmm, when I do the preview of the post on my iPad the numbers are legible, looking at the actual post they are not.

Caboose, 24627 bobtail
Hopper, 24216
Flat car, 24562
Crane car, 24561
Baldwin, (21)812
Power Clips, 26810
Transformer 40W, 22004
Manual Uncoupler, 704
Track, 2 26700 straight, 12 26720 curve


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## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> For my contribution today here are pictures of my 1960 20610 Dispatcher set. The 20610 is one of a few sets that used a foldout advertising display as part of the set. The cardboard insert is accurately cut to hold each item and bold black text tells the potential purchaser what each item is.
> 
> View attachment 509098
> 
> 
> View attachment 509100
> 
> 
> View attachment 509102


Great looking set Tom. I've seen this set a few times and have been tempted but already have a (21)812 so have passed. Instead, I bought the 20605 Arrow set from 1960. It looks like your insert is in better shape than mine. I'll post that as my next picture after I'm done with the Circus train.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Cramden, that would be great. I would like to see the Arrow set. I have no idea why I own this 20610 set, I was supposed to be a link coupler collector! You all will see how I failed at staying with link couplers as I post more items.
Cramden, you mentioned you have more circus train items, neat. This afternoon I again searched for my set, I know it is in one of two places so I picked the location easier to access first. No set, but in a crate that had some of the OB Minicraft buildings I found the two extra 649 circus cars I purchased. No idea why I put them in that crate. In any event I will post photos within the next week. We are leaving this afternoon again for four days but I now have at least 5 days of new items to post while I am gone.


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## cramden

I don't know why I bought the "Arrow" set either, they are all 5 digit cars but a friend who I have bought a lot of items from had it for sale so...home it came with me. Maybe because it had the 24066 L&N boxcar and the 24225 Santa Fe hopper, or that it didn't break the bank. Anyway, here's my 353 Circus engine. It's far from mint, but it looks good enough to go with the cars I bought. That is the extent of my Circus items except for the billboard whistle and the re-issued Circus cut outs that Greenberg sold back in the early nineties.( I think the date is somewhat in that time frame)?


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## AmFlyer

Now we have seen the complete circus set! I bought my 5002T set in August of 1989 and the Greenberg produced cutouts were available around that time. So your date estimate is correct.
I bought the 24066 and the 24225 separately, no set purchase necessary. My Santa Fe hopper is a 1965 Pikemaster version, yours would be the KC version in the 1960 set.


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## cramden

Thanks, the Circus cars were all bought from 1 vendor along with a 710 steam whistle control. He didn't have any of the boxes but as I stated, the wife liked the Circus cars. Then I found the 353 at another dealer who had some other items I also bought. This was in the fall of 2013 at the First Frost in Allentown. I don't think I would have bought the "Arrow" had it come with pikemaster couplers. I'll post the "Arrow" pics tomorrow.


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## mopac

Cramden, nice 353 circus engine. While not mint its nice enough.


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## cramden

Thanks mopac, I didn't want to go home without an engine for the Circus train from the show. Can't disappoint the granddaughter or the wife.


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## AFGP9

Cramden, nice original Circus engine and tender. Especially the lettering. 

Mopac, starting this thread was an excellent idea. I thought I had a good general knowledge of things American Flyer. I have learned a lot more for sure from everybody's contributions. Thanks. now if I can just retain what I have learned. Operating with a memory retention problem here! 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Here is my contribution to the Photo of The Day, my K325, the mate to the 322 I bought from John Heck at the same time and already posted.


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## mopac

Very nice looking K325. Very strong cab numbers and lettering.


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## AmFlyer

Great looking engine. You should have bought a lot more things from John, it might have saved me some money if they were already sold when I got to his table!


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## cramden

Very nice looking K325. I have one, you don't see many of them.


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## AmFlyer

Yesterday I mentioned that I accidentally discovered two of my 649 circus flats. Thought I would post the pictures today. Once again these were purchased from John Heck. The cars and loads are in mint condition, just as they left the factory. The animals are less common varieties or less common colors, that was John’s sales pitch to convince me I had to buy them. At least they have link couplers. If you look very closely there are detail differences in the molding at the top rear of the truck cab. That is how to tell a repro from an original since the retro’s are excellent.


----------



## cramden

As promised, here is my 20605 "Arrow" set from 1960. There was no instruction sheet or other paper in the box. There is a 25 smoke cartridge envelope that has the funnel, but no pipe cleaner or smoke cartridge. The tag on the transformer is a note about a built in circuit breaker and mine has a track clip vs. the power clips that are in the set description. The picture of Denis Bagby's set lists his with a clip, so who knows. Also is the manual uncoupler without any plastic bag.






















The paper bag next to the set contains the later thin track clips, I think they were not part of the set but added at a later time. There is 27 of them, an odd amount.


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## AmFlyer

The number stamp on the set box is really strong and the display fold-up looks perfect. I did not look up The Arrow contents yesterday but the Dispatcher content list did not show track locks nor the smoke cartridge. I am sure a cartridge would be included, neat that the envelope and funnel are present. When I get home I need to look under the insert and see if there is one in my set as well.


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## cramden

Thanks Tom, I doubt your set would have a #25 smoke cartridge envelope since it has a diesel and not a steamer. The #25 smoke envelope contained 1 smoke cartridge along with a pipe cleaner and funnel, according to what I could find from the Greenberg books. It's not listed with the ARROW set contents, but makes sense. I'm sure the smaller sets didn't contain the track clips, thus my comment about the ones in the box were most likely added by someone at a later time.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Yesterday I mentioned that I accidentally discovered two of my 649 circus flats. Thought I would post the pictures today. Once again these were purchased from John Heck. The cars and loads are in mint condition, just as they left the factory. The animals are less common varieties or less common colors, that was John’s sales pitch to convince me I had to buy them. At least they have link couplers. If you look very closely there are detail differences in the molding at the top rear of the truck cab. That is how to tell a repro from an original since the retro’s are excellent.
> 
> View attachment 509238
> 
> 
> View attachment 509240
> 
> 
> View attachment 509242
> 
> 
> View attachment 509244


Great looking cars Tom, I must have missed your post as I was posting about my Arrow. Yes, the easiest difference in the cabs is the lack of running lights on the roof of the repros. Cool colors on the animals and a Rhino and Zebras!


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## AmFlyer

Wow, talk about missing the obvious! Of course there would be no smoke cartridge in a diesel set!
When I get back home next week I will check Bob Tuft's set book. It is more thorough and accurate regarding contents. One thing to keep in mind about the set pictures in Volume 3 taken of Dennis Bagby's sets; there were several helpers to unbox then rebox the set contents during photography. A decision was made to not unbox all the accessories if they were similar between sets. So some sets have accessories pictured that were actually from another set. Things such as the color of the uncoupler (yellow vs green) might not match what was actually in a set box. I am not sure if the same could be true for a 690 track clip vs the power clips. I asked Dennis about this years after the pictures were taken but he could not recall all the specifics of which items by set number were not unpacked.


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## cramden

According to Greenberg's Vol.#2 under accessories, the manual uncoupler that came with the cheaper sets was uncatalogued and came in an unmarked plastic bag with a 26690 track clip. So, maybe mine is right and yours is also right. It's possible by 1960 they were using what was available to complete sets for sale and yours was filled with the power clips and mine received the terminal. I don't have the Tuft's book. Looks like I should get one if I can find it.


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## AmFlyer

Assuming I can still remember by Monday afternoon I will look at the Tuft's book.


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## AmFlyer

We have a Friday afternoon special today. Back in 2003 we had purchased a second home 70 miles north so that I could be 5 minutes from the office during the week. Daily commuting was out of the question. At Thanksgiving I was having severe train withdrawal symptoms even though I had a layout back at the other house we used on the weekends. No problem, I quick grabbed some train boxes , stopped at a Home Depot and assembled a small layout in a couple of evenings. Here is a picture.
This was obviously a very simple layout but it has a few items to see. First take a look at the 755A Talking station. It is the more rare blue roof version and the control button is the white version. I was in such a hurry I did not even dust off the roof or clean off the fingerprints. Three track switches and two uncouplers and I was done, not even a billboard whistle.
Next the two Gilbert engines. One is a wire handrail 302. The other is a 1953 282 5 wire with red glowing smoke and plastic tender. The white paint inside the stack is visible.
The floodlight car is the light gray plastic version, not the dark gray die cast version.
A few cars and some Snow Village filled in the underground area. The layout was 52”x72”, the white snow effect was just 1/2” styrofoam insulation.


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## cramden

Neat layout to keep you from going into train withdraw. I always liked the blue roof 755A, just never bought one. I don't think I ever saw a white control button for one. Nice find. Having spotted your handcar, I'll post mine for the pic. for the day. The box has both inserts inside. This one has the stripes with the shield, but no vent holes in the top. Unfortunately, each of the men has lost the use of an arm due to the rubber failing, so the have to pump twice as hard with their good arms to get going!


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## AmFlyer

Nice looking 740, perfect decal and OB. You spotted the 740 even though I did not comment on it.
The Blue roof 755A came in its OB so the white button was packed with it. I also have a marbled button just for kicks.


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## cramden

Thanks, it appears to have had very little run time. It's too bad that the rubber doesn't hold up over the years.


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## mopac

I don't think I have seen a blue roof Tom. Very cool.
Nice hand car cramden. And box.


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## AmFlyer

In 1959 and 1960 Gilbert made the 20540 Merchandiser set. It was pulled by a Missouri Pacific PA/PA set. This set includes the 24221 C&EI hopper, one of my favorites. The C&EI was available for separate sale at a $3.50 retail price. Of course every car in the 20540 set is desirable.
I bought this 24221 example in August of 2000. It is interesting because it came in the plain white OB rather than a red and white printed box.


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## cramden

Tough car to find and an interesting plain box that's stamped. Yours is in really great condition, unlike most you see for sale.


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## mopac

Nice car Tom.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Mopac.


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## AFGP9

Tom, mopac, and cramden, thanks for the kind words regarding my K325. I have been away for 3 days and away from computer use as well so sorry for the late response.

Nice Circus cars Tom. Thanks for pointing out how to spot a repro truck cab from the original. That C&EI is one I don't have in my 30 hopper car collection. That white box is sure an unusual thing. Gotta get one of those C&EI hoppers for sure, box or no box. 

Tom, now let me get this straight. I should have spent more money with John Heck to save YOU money but cost me more??? Buying the 322 and the K325 plus a few other things pretty well wiped me out that day.

As to that layout you built, what a better way to beat train withdrawal than to build a simple, functional, great looking layout as you did. The "topper" is the blue roof 755A Talking Station. Another thing I should have bought when I had the chance. I got a bad habit of going to train shows, scoping out what is all there then going back and buying what I can't live without and then the item not being there.


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## cramden

Since Tom brought up the Merchandiser set 20540, this is as close I'll get to owning one. This car was in that set and I really like it. No box (dang it) but I couldn't pass it up. I have the 24077 Pig Palace and this one. A ways to go to complete the set. Not sure how the red stripe lost a corner. This is the 24323 Bakers Chocolate tank car. This is a white painted tank with gray ends and platform.


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## AFGP9

Cramden, nice 20605 "Arrow" set as well as the box.

I always like to see those Baker's Chocolate tankers. Nice crisp lettering. I've never bought any of them at shows simply because I can't remember the differences between all of them. Yours is the only one I can ID because of the gray ends. Never saw a white end one at a show, not that I could have afforded it any way. I just looked at my Greenberg price guide and I see only 3 different ones listed. I thought there were more than that?

I got a thing for tank cars anyway.


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## cramden

Thanks, AFGP9. It's a nice small set with a couple of nice cars. Sometimes I should pass on things, but I don't have any discipline and can spend all of my train show money at the first few vendors that I know.


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## AmFlyer

AFGP9, you got it right. Anything you bought would not have been there for me to buy! John was always very accommodating, if there was an item I was not sure about he would put it under the table until I got back. He knew he was having a good Sunday when my wife was with me, she had less "won't" power than I did when it came to sets and accessories.
Cramden, you have my favorite of the Bakers Chocolate cars because it is a solid tank rather than a split tank. I never bought one, not sure why, it is the only car from the Merchandiser set I do not have.


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## AFGP9

I got no "do not buy it" power. That is why I only take a certain amount of money with me. I also haven't got a wife to tell me no anymore either. She was my only controlling factor. Now that she is gone, that is why I only take a certain amount of money. That is also why I walk the entire show before I buy anything. Yes John also put things back for me as well. I knew I was going to go back and buy his items so I knew what money I had left for other things. Many times I could have just went to his table, spent all my money there and been on my way and not have to walk the rest of the show but then walking the whole Du Page show is half the fun!

Kenny


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## cramden

That was always one of the benefits of dealing with the same vendors, they knew you were going to buy, the amount was just a minor detail and usually were very accommodating. Tom, if you call John Heck he probably has a Bakers car with your name on it!


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## AFGP9

cramden said:


> That was always one of the benefits of dealing with the same vendors, they knew you were going to buy, the amount was just a minor detail and usually were very accommodating. Tom, if you call John Heck he probably has a Bakers car with your name on it!


I generally deal with only certain vendors but still check 'em all out.


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## AFGP9

Cramden, since you posted your Bakers's Chocolate tanker, I thought I would post a few of mine regular ones on my layout. They come complete with "house" weathering, (dust). Nice real affect without actually having to do anything. The Staley car is a custom.








































Kenny


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## cramden

Thanks for posting, that's quite an fleet of tank cars. I see you have some of the Flyonel tank cars. I should have bought the Gulf white one way back in 1979. I always liked that one. Uh oh, I better not get started.


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## AmFlyer

A good selection of the Lionel Flyer tank cars on the layout. I also like the WM hopper.
Cramden, I have a 9100 NIB if you decide you absolutely must have one.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I actually had a reasonable amount of self control. I built my collection over 25 years. I never took enough money to buy a set. When we lived in Wheaton my wife would sometimes just drive over to the Fairgrounds and bring the cash or a check. After we moved away the sellers would just UPS all the stuff to me and I would mail them a check. Not very limiting, but I never spent money we could not spare for the trains.
Regards the Bakers Chocolate, surprisingly there was not one at the last S Fest. John was there as well. I did buy a bunch of SHS free rolling box cars for use on the layout. They were 40% off at the show.


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## mopac

I like the tank cars also. I have a few. I have nowhere near the collection you guys do.
That's the difference between 25 years of collecting and my 3 years of collecting. For many
years I had a 282 and 3 or 4 cars. I got that 282 running good and my S exploded. I have
a train show coming up in a week. So hope to get some goodies. Not holding my breath.
Its a big show but there will not be much S. Most way over priced. I always thought my
282 would be worth hundreds, I guess because of age. At this same show a few years ago I saw a 282 for $75.00. I remember being disappointed that was all it was selling for. I have been educated now and 75.00 was twice what it should have sold for. You
always need to be an educated consumer.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, maybe you will feel better when I share my 282 collecting history. Prices have dropped a lot over the last 10 years. I have 3 282's. The least I paid was $60 in 6/94 for a solid E+, no wrapper. The most expensive one I bought was the 5 wire with red glowing smoke that was on the layout photo I posted this weekend. That engine variation had always commanded a premium. Mine was LN, barely run with the stamped OW. Guide prices are for E rated with no packaging. In 3/97 I paid $165 for it, yet I still decided to (carefully) run it on that layout. That particular engine would likely still sell for over $100 today. So if you get E condition 282's for under $50 you should feel great about it.


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## mopac

The least I paid was $20.00. And it is nice just in pieces. I paid 30 for it and a non train
person put it loose in a box to send to me. No packing material at all. Well the trip knocked the front pilot wheels off, the coal pusher off, and a couple other things. Nothing I can't put back together. Its a 1953 model with glowing smoke stack. Cab numbers and lettering great. Looks like very little use. Great tender. Coal pusher and the little light stands at back of tender. LOL, it was complete just in a few pieces. I sent seller a message, not really complaining, just to let seller know you can't put a vintage train loose in a box and mail it. Seller refunded me $10.00 and thanked me. Well worth 20.00.


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## mopac

My other 282 is a 1952 model. Not really in great shape but good enough for me. 
And I have had it since I was 5 years old. That was one thing I had to get use to
when I started buying AF stuff. The same road numbers on engines and rolling stock.
It was tough at first. It comes from my HO days. I have over 130 locomotives and over 500 cars. None with the same road numbers. 2 items with the same numbers was taboo.


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## cramden

Just to add to the 282 discussion, I have two 282's, both are 5 wire with the red glowing smoke and white painted stack. Both have the red paint on the fiber 4 wire plug so not to incorrectly plug it in opposite of the wiring. I don't have the date stamps because I can't make them out without taking the boilers off and I would rather leave them alone since both run great. The most obvious difference is the cab # sizes. They both don't have the coal pusher or marker lights on the tenders. There's holes for the markers but not for the coal pusher. Another small difference is the 3 spring truck on the tenders. The small#282 has 1 truck with the vertical slots whereas the large #282 has both trucks with vertical slots cut into the trucks above the springs. The large # 282 was bought from choo choo auctions in Aug. 2018 for $79. The small #282 was purchased from an Antique shop with its freight consist, but no boxes. I can't remember the exact year or price. Most everything I own has dropped in price, some more than others. It is what it is, as the saying goes, but the enjoyment of 30+ years of playing with American Flyers is worth the loss of value over those years IMHO. Here is a comparison of the two.


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## AmFlyer

Those are nice examples of the hard to find 5 wire version. I avoid thinking about the drop in value.


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## AmFlyer

I got out my Greenberg books and the Tuft's book to see what was documented for Arrow and Merchandiser set contents. In short, there is no consensus and neither matches the versions that Cramden and I have.
The Merchandiser supposedly has the 26690 track clip in envelope and a 26752 remote control uncoupler per the Tufts book. What mine has is the 26810 Pow-R-Clips and a manual uncoupler thought to be an uncatalogued 26753. The Bagby set had the Pow-R-Clips.
The Arrow supposedly has the 26810 Pow-R-Clips and a 704 manual uncoupler per the Tufts book. Since the 704 was last catalogued in 1956 there is no way they would be in a 1960 set. The Bagby set clearly has the same 26753 manual uncoupler but it has a 26690 track terminal bagged with the uncoupler, not in a correctly marked envelope.
We will call this research project done unless some others here have one of these boxed sets for further reference.


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## cramden

Thanks for the additional information on the sets. It appears that there might have been numerous small substitutions that didn't matter to Gilbert as long as the sets contained items that would complete the set. Only a larger sample of sets might give a better answer, and even that might get more confusing results.


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## mopac

Nice 282s cramden. That one does have small cab numbers. I have not seen that.
My 1952 has metal tender. the 1953 has plastic and it s a five wire. Both have large numbers. And 282s always seem to run good. Well my 52 runs great after changing the armature.


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## AFGP9

Nice 282s cramden. Now I will be forced to dig out the one I have. 

Mine has a 2 spring metal tender and "American Flyer" on the tender sides and "PRR" on the front corner. Greenburg's guide lists the "American Flyer" version as 1952 but with "C&NW" markings only. The cab numbers are regular size. The 1953 is listed as having "AF" or AFL" on the tender and is the pusher version and "C&NW" on the corner. 

Since my 282 has "PRR" in the corner and was converted to KC when I bought it, (who knows how long ago), I have always wondered if that is the correct tender because of the "PRR" markings and not being listed in Greenberg's. That aside, it is a great running engine. 

Anybody got any guesses or ideas?


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## mopac

All the 282 tenders I have seen are C&NW. I suspect a tender change With PRR markings.
Sounds cool though. All the PRR tenders I have seen are larger, That might be a way to tell.
Is the tender K5 size?


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## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> Nice 282s cramden. Now I will be forced to dig out the one I have.
> 
> Mine has a 2 spring metal tender and "American Flyer" on the tender sides and "PRR" on the front corner. Greenburg's guide lists the "American Flyer" version as 1952 but with "C&NW" markings only. The cab numbers are regular size. The 1953 is listed as having "AF" or AFL" on the tender and is the pusher version and "C&NW" on the corner.
> 
> Since my 282 has "PRR" in the corner and was converted to KC when I bought it, (who knows how long ago), I have always wondered if that is the correct tender because of the "PRR" markings and not being listed in Greenberg's. That aside, it is a great running engine.
> 
> Anybody got any guesses or ideas?


My 282 has beautiful block cab numbers, the boiler is plastic, the tender is sheet metal with the Chicago/North Western herald, link couplers, and has the 3 spring trucks, and the loco/tender is all original. Fred, ( Broke) gave it to me...


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, a PRR "AMERICAN FLYER" tender would be from a 1950 or newer 312AC. A less likely possibility is a previous owner changed the roadname of the original tender from C&NW to PRR using dry transfer letters. Post a picture and we will be able to tell.


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## AmFlyer

Time for another picture. For today we have a 24422 GN Reefer. Four versions of a 24422 were made between 1963 and 1966, one boxcar and 3 variations of the reefer. This is the least common, the painted with opening doors. All 24422’s are listed as Pikemaster. This one includes its OB.
I wish I had been smart enough to buy one of these at the original price on the box. Back in 1967 there was a hobby shop near me that was exiting the train business for model race cars. They were selling stacks of Gilbert cars for half off list. I did not buy any because all my trains had link couplers and these were knuckle couplers. One of my worst decisions ever.


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## cramden

Nice one Tom, and hard to come by. This variation doesn't appear in Vol#1 of my Greenberg's book. On page 99 there's a picture of your car with knuckle couplers, but they don't list that one either. Maybe you have an unknown variation or I'm just confused, or my book is out dated.


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## AmFlyer

I have a book with that picture of the 24422 reefer with knuckle couplers. Despite the picture it is not a reported and verified factory original. It is easy to change the chassis on these cars. I have never seen one with KC's, if I had seen one I would own it regardless of price. Oh, right, I collect link coupler cars, sometimes I forget!
The car I posted is pictured in the Greenberg Deger books and it is a documented variation; green painted, opening doors and Pikemaster.


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## AFGP9

Tom here is my 282 with the PRR tender. Notice the 2 wire jack panel and the original wiring. Does that tell you anything? I've never seen a 2 wire before. I really hadn't looked at the wire jack panel until I took the pictures. Other than lubing all moving parts, I've never had this engine apart since it ran great from the beginning. All of my 312's do indeed have PRR tenders but all are 4 wire jack panels. Also the rear of the tender on the 282 has the ladder, with a broken off ladder top, like a 312 and the wire handrails. I also referred to my handy dandy David Boyle "American Flyer Trains" catalog and as flyernut said, all 282s came with C&NW markings. Bottom line, I have no idea where the PRR tender came from. 

I don't really remember when I bought this engine so I don't know what I paid for it. I think since I bought the bulk of my engines starting 35 years ago, maybe they weren't used and abused so much as those in later years. The last time I bought was my 322 and K325 from John Heck at Du Page and that had to be 15 years ago near as I can remember. As far as value, like was discussed, I don't even think about it. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

That is a 312 tender from a K5 Pacific. It is not the one that came with the engine. Are there 4 wires in the harness? If 4 wires are the other two connected to anything? The tender is either a 1948 or 1949 because it has AFL in Serif style lettering and there is no smoke filler tube with cap on the top. There should be a reverse unit in the tender, is it working?


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## cramden

Somewhere there's a K5 that has a sheet metal Pacific tender or none at all. If you spend any time on ebay, eventually, you will see Hudson's, K5's, Pacific's, and Atlantic's all with the wrong tenders. Why? Who knows, but all of these combos I've seen over the years. Some maybe to make up a complete steamer from pieces and some that are reselling from yard sales or estate finds that don't know what they have. Others may have swapped them out themselves because they liked the look. There are engines and tenders for sale by themselves all of the time on the bay. In this case, it doesn't look bad,so why not enjoy it as it is.


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## cramden

Here's a 971 Moe and Joe lumber unloading flat. This is the Tuscan painted black plastic variation. My books lists it as the same price for the unpainted version. I haven't bought any price guides in who knows how long, but I'm curious to find out if it's rare. Anyone have a recent price guide or book that could shed some light on this variation. For what it's worth, there's one that's on ebay for $700 with the box, but that seems crazy to me. I understand people can ask whatever price they want, but the claim is that it's rare. Thanks in advance.


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## AmFlyer

Those are nice operating cars. The 2017 Guide lists the tuscan unpainted plastic for $105 in Excellent condition. The tuscan painted in excellent condition is, are you ready, $620! Add in an OB with all the flaps and a legible number stamp it would be close to $700. On these cars condition can greatly change the value. A VG car would be half of that price, one in LN or unrun condition would be at least $800 if the $620 value is right.


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## AmFlyerFan

"Moe & Joe" 
I like that. What year(s) were those sold? I wish Mom & Dad would've bought me one back then for (maybe) $ 5.00 ?
That would be a hell of a return on your original investment.


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## cramden

Thanks Tom, I know the vendor I bought this from many years ago wasn't asking a price based on that information. I also know I didn't pay all that much for it, maybe in the $75 range. I might not remember exact prices, but had I paid a lot for this car, that I would have remembered. I didn't realize it was this variation until today when looking for something to post. I have no box, but from the picture, a little cleaning is in order to help with it's appearance now that I know what I have. Even as a VG that's not a bad price. Sometimes you get lucky. I guess the fellow on ebay knew what he had, now he just needs somebody to buy it. Thanks again for the quick response.


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## AmFlyer

Always good to have some luck on your side. From the pictures posted the car looks like an E-. There is wear on some of the high spots and there are marks, spots, on the black metal. But it would still be $500 based on $620 for a full E. Park it on a siding and let it unload for visitors.


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## cramden

Pictures of the day, a couple since I missed a few days. A pair of C.&N.W. 42597's die-cast flats. A 634 floodlight car and a 635 crane car. The crane is a 1948 and I think the floodlight is too, although it has one brass weight and one black painted weight. It's amazing what a picture shows that you don't see just by looking. The railings need a little polishing. Always something that needs attending.


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## mopac

Great flat cars cramden. I really like flats. I have a few but not enough.


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## AmFlyer

One nice thing about having my collection stored in boxes is any needed cleaning or maintenance is hidden from view. The 635 crane is as nice as I have seen. Do you run it on the layout? I have not noticed any cars with one factory brass weight and one factory black weight. That would be most uncommon, but interesting.


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## cramden

When most of my trains were packed away due to various reasons, their appearance wasn't too important. I usually would clean them after a purchase and put them in storage. Now that they are on display, I find I might have been a little lazy when it came to doing a thorough job. The crane was a spur of the moment purchase, it was too nice to pass up. It didn't look like it had been used much, if at all. It hasn't been on the layout yet, the layout has been neglected over the summer, but with Fall here, that could change. I have a lonely 322 that already has a 717, a 633, and a 630, so the 635 crane will complete a made up 4620A set from 1948. Now that will surely get on the layout at some point.


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## cramden

Here's a 922 common boxcar with the less common heat stamped yellow stripe instead of the decal stripe. This is part of the 5358W freight set I bought from a private individual that received it as a Christmas gift in 1953. He had all of the boxes for the cars and the engine wrap, but no set box.


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## AFGP9

I've been gone on a trip for a few days so I haven't been able to post. Out of curiosity, I checked eBay again for those 715's. I found an Army green armored truck one with starting price of 34.95. It was missing one black weighted coupler which is no big deal. The seller had a nice close up of the missing LC end. The bolster where the link attaches wasn't damaged, just missing the pin and LC so that was no big deal since I have some. I threw out a minimum bid to see what would happen. Long story short, I got the car! No other bidders! I will post a pic as soon as I locate a black weighted coupler. I have one of those bolt and nut small plastic drawer cabinets that I use for storing spare parts but no black weighed LC's. A bunch of KC's and a few brass LC's but no black. That means looking in 2 other places where I have a bunch of parts. 

Kenny

Cramden, great looking 922. Nice crisp yellow stripe. I had a nice one of those but while the green paint and all lettering were in great condition as yours is, the yellow paint stripe wasn't as sharp and crisp as yours. I traded it for another 977 caboose version. I still have 2 922's but not top quality so they are relegated to layout running. Both are the heat stamped versions but have scratches and scrapes. I'll get another nice one some day. No hurry.


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## mopac

I got a 922 this past week. not a nice one. Mine has no hint of the yellow stripe.
It has everything else that cramden's does.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, good purchase. In theory the armored car load was through 1948 and the Manoil Coupe was on the 1949 and later 715's. There could be a few exceptions but none are documented in original boxes of known provenance. Point is, if you use brass coupler weights that is correct for a 1948 car.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, that 922 is so nice it is almost unbelievable. It looks untouched. Paint is definitely nicer than the decal.


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## cramden

Thanks guys on the 922 posts. Mopac, post a picture of yours if you can, I've never seen one without any decal, usually they are missing pieces, not completely missing.AFGP9, looking forward to the pics of your 715. Nice price for an armored car flat. Tom, I know you're like me when it comes to ebay, but AFGP9's post on his recent 715 purchase got me curious about what was for sale on the site, so I went looking this morning. Quite a few 715's for sale currently, but what caught my eye was the sold listings, I'm always interested in the realized prices for items. This is an item that sold in the last few months, actually a 715 and a 915 listed together. Hopefully, this link will take you to the listing. The 915 is also interesting in that it's a link coupler version. I don't know if this has been altered, but the Manoil coupe looks legit. So, it appears they are out there somewhere. Click on the original item box. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RARE-AME...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## AmFlyer

This is why i do not look at trains on ebay. There is one of the elusive orange coupes sitting on that 715. Just the orange coupe is worth the $49 paid. Had I seen that listing I would have bid $149 to get it. 
No way to know for sure about the link couplers on the 915. It might be possible to determine originality by examining the rivets and wiring.


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## cramden

I just thought it gives conformation that there is an orange coupe. I don't buy off of ebay, but I do look to see what's out there. I prefer to look at items in person. Too many train shows have spoiled me. On another note, I almost bid on this from choo choo auctions until I saw the opening bid which was more than I could justify. Only one bidder and he got it for the opening bid. I hadn't seen this car or even a picture of one and wasn't aware it was produced. It came in an uncatalogued set with 3 other 3 or 5 digit heavyweights and pulled by a 21105 Atlantic. The set was 20145 American Flyer Action Mail Set from 1958. The sold price, $1,250. Somebody really wanted this car!


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## AmFlyer

That car is red painted over white plastic so it is immaculate. The rarity of that car is 5+, way less than 100 thought to have been made. there are no reported sales in any of the guides, nor of the 20145 set with the 5 digit cars. The set but with 3 digit cars is more common. Again, this is why I do not look at ebay. 
If someone wants a best of the rarest collection this would be a must buy, regardless of price. Same thing if someone is trying to assemble the 5 digit version of the 20145 set.


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## mopac

Like I said, my 922 is not a nice one. I am in the process of
cleaning this one up. I have removed the door rails and door.
The rails are rusty and I am going to try and clean the rust off.
If they don't come out nice I will paint them black.


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## mopac

That is a sandwich baggy inside the car. Baggy has the rails, the tiny pins that hold the rails on, the wheels, and the doors.


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## cramden

Not a bad looking car for the layout. I'm not sure if the yellow stripe has been reproduced. It's hard to tell if yours was a decal or painted but appears to have been removed for some reason. Still, if the price was right, it should clean up and be worth having. Thanks for posting the picture.


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## mopac

I think mine was a decal. If you hold it at different angles you can see it was there. 
No idea why it was removed. Both sides. It will be an ok looking runner. It was less than 10 bucks.
I bought 10 cars for 80.00 shipped.


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## cramden

Here's my pic. for the day. A 717 log unloading car from 46-47. This car has thin shank couplers with the patent number, but has no 717# on the power truck end. This one has American Flyer Lines on both ends. Early inside pick up for the solenoid to activate and the 710 power track and the button.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, the decal was reproduced at one time. Not sure if they are still available.
The 717 would be middle to late 1946 production with the thin shank coupler and the sharp stampings of the springs and the journal boxes. The earliest cars mostly had diecast journal boxes, some are reported with none. Nice condition car, a real survivor.


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## flyernut

Dip those door rails in evapo-rust, polish, and then re-blue with cold firearms bluing.I use brownells 44-40 for re-bluing. Heat the part first with a plumbers torch or something similar, the bluing will take much better...or just paint them black.


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## mopac

Thanks flyernut. I have a can of evapo-rust but no firearms bluing so they will get
painted black. Its not a collectors car so no biggie.

I do have a can of spray polyurathane. If after the evapo-rust they look ok I might just 
clear them. I know they will need something or rust will come back.


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## AmFlyer

For today’s item we have a 1959 only 21156 Docksider switcher. The 21156 has no light, smoke or choo choo. The 1958 only 21155 had no light but it did have smoke and choo choo. Cost reductions hit hard.
These engines have lost a lot of operator value since Lionel began offering new ones. First they offered the 1225 Christmas version in 2009 with conventional operation, directional lighting, smoke and choo choo. It was included in set 6-49621. That is an important set because it was made shortly after Lionel acquired K-Line so it includes a circle of the 27”R track!
FlyerChief versions are now made. Here is a PRR along with its boxed set. The FlyerChief does not have smoke, Lionel said it could not be made to fit.


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## Mikeh49

Tom, your turntable pit is too clean! After more than a year, I'd expect it to show some use. You must be discrete with the lubricants.


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## AmFlyer

Time flies when we are having fun, it just turned 3 years old this month!
There are no visible signs of wear anywhere on the layout so far. I almost never run Gilbert engines on this layout and only Line 2 was designed and tested for that purpose. the Lionel and AM engines require very small amounts of lube and they do not drip like prototype engines. The design is based on a concrete pit, if I want more aging in the pit I would need to further detail it out.
The layout design and controls are optimized for all Legacy operation. For example I can run a Gilbert engine conventional with the Cab2 around Line 1 but there are 6 places the engine crosses a Power District boundary. It is tiring to keep switching the PD selected on the Cab2 every few seconds. I find even on this layout I run the Gilbert engines faster than the Legacy engines, like 4 times as fast!


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## cramden

Great looking 21156 Tom, appears to be flawless. I never bought any of the 0-6-0 tank engines. There was always something else that caught my eye. I think the clean pit looks great, proud railroaders you have on the job!


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, good purchase. In theory the armored car load was through 1948 and the Manoil Coupe was on the 1949 and later 715's. There could be a few exceptions but none are documented in original boxes of known provenance. Point is, if you use brass coupler weights that is correct for a 1948 car.


Tom somewhere I have a black weight LC. I would use the brass one I have in the drawer but I want to match the other black one that's on the car. 

I am not a regular eBay buyer any more but do look there from time to time. Buying that 715 Armored car was just a lark. I do often look at the "Sold" feature to see what things have sold for though. Since I saw so many different Armored cars on other 715's, I wonder if they are original to the 715 or did Tootsie produce the Armored car for separate sale and people came across loose ones and stuck them on the 715's. 

I still would rather buy at a train show from vendors I know. Lessons learned from eBay buying in the past. 

Kenny


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> Thanks flyernut. I have a can of evapo-rust but no firearms bluing so they will get
> painted black. Its not a collectors car so no biggie.
> 
> I do have a can of spray polyurathane. If after the evapo-rust they look ok I might just
> clear them. I know they will need something or rust will come back.


Don't forget, bluing is a rust procedure, and the evapo-rust will remove bluing such as on those door rails and trucks.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, the armored car was the load on the 715 from 1946 through 1948. There were 4 colors, the most common are gray and olive drab. there were also two variations of a camouflage paint scheme.
The armored car was also used on the prewar unloading car. there is a casting difference on the underside to tell them apart, plus all cars with white wheels are prewar.


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## AmFlyer

Time for an early weekend picture. Since I claim to be a link coupler collector/operator I thought maybe I should actually post a picture of a link coupler item.
This 360 has its OW and OB so it was likely a separate sale item. It is actually a 364 but I was shocked to see the B unit was not in the same storage crate as the A unit.


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## cramden

That's a great looking 360 Tom. My favorite Flyer diesel, the first diesel I bought when I started to collect back in the early 80's. I have 2 sets of the AB's. I think the closed coupler nose looks so much better than the cut out pilot, but then there wouldn't have been an ABA or AA sets made. Here's something you might have seen on the same layout. A 325AC from 1951.


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## mopac

Nice looking locomotives guys.
Nice pics.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Mopac and Cramden. And now I do not need to get out my 325AC, it looks just like yours.


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## AFGP9

Thanks for the information regarding the 715 Armored trucks. I have seen the colors you mentioned on the 715's on eBay which is why I wondered if they were the real deal or just some Tootsie armored cars put on the 715's by sellers. 

Beautiful Santa Fe 360 you have there.

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Cramden, love that 325AC! Gotta get me one to go with my K325. I've been wanting one for a long time but I haven't been going to Du Page or any other train shows for a while. They have been on eBay but not buying from there. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Here are some photos of the 715 I mentioned that I recently bought off eBay. There are a few scratches on the red portion of the car but that shouldn't be hard to color match. The red is actually darker than shown and the yellow is brighter. There are scratches on both sides of the red base. It is as yet untested even though the seller said it did work. For no more than I paid, I'm not complaining. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The 715 is in great condition. The 715's tend to have assorted paint chips from operating the unloading feature. If I had to pick a year of manufacture it would most likely be 1951 because that is the first time a gray painted base was used. I cannot tell from the pictures if the truck w/o the pickup has 2 or 3 springs. If it has 3 springs it is a less common version, possibly 1952 production.
The armored truck was last used in 1948 so it is not the original load for the gray based 715 but it is in perfect shape.


----------



## mopac

I picked this 648 up at a train show Saturday. Nice condition.
$10.00. It has no signs it was ever a track cleaning car. Were
some 648 cars not track cleaning cars?










Other cars I picked up are shown in "what have you added to your roster" thread.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks like a good buy, I have never seen one w/o the track cleaning feature.
I see you are making good use of the newly acquired 27"R track for the pictures.


----------



## mopac

LOL, good spot Tom. The track is nice.


----------



## Mikeh49

To my inexperienced eyeball the non pickup truck on the 715 looks to have a longer wheelbase than the pickup truck, which implies to me it is 3 spring. Never having actually seen a 3 spring, of course.


----------



## cramden

Very nice 715 Kenny, the armored car looks great. Should be a 1951 as Tom states. Greenberg's list's this as type "G" from 1951.You can't tell from the pictures, but maybe you can confirm what truck it is.


----------



## AmFlyer

As I am sure you know now that you own some the K-Line track uses black rather than gray insulators. Also the 27"R curve has 5 ties. I hope you find 12 to be sufficient since they are expensive. Wonder how much the matching rubber roadbed I have is worth, I never got around to using it.


----------



## flyernut

Nice!!


----------



## mopac

The lot of K-Line I got is 14 pieces. 12 makes a circle. I will buy more when I see it.
I am sure I paid a premium price. 4.65 per piece plus shipping. I got it from Moody Trains in Columbus, Ohio. There was no other on ebay. A month ago a seller had some New
pieces but he wanted near 10.00 a piece. Too nice for me. Mine are not new but nice.
I will find more.

I am sure you could ask a lot for the rubber roadbed.

cramden, have you seen a 648 that was not a track cleaning car.


----------



## cramden

You got the track for a very good price. The last wide radius roadbed that sold on ebay went for $125.00 + shipping for a dozen pieces. Most of the time the track is in the $8-$10 range on ebay. I've never seen a 648 that didn't have the track cleaning parts underneath. Does it look like someone might have removed the metal pieces? I've seen people run these cars without the felt rollers, but the metal parts are still attached.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The 715 is in great condition. The 715's tend to have assorted paint chips from operating the unloading feature. If I had to pick a year of manufacture it would most likely be 1951 because that is the first time a gray painted base was used. I cannot tell from the pictures if the truck w/o the pickup has 2 or 3 springs. If it has 3 springs it is a less common version, possibly 1952 production.
> The armored truck was last used in 1948 so it is not the original load for the gray based 715 but it is in perfect shape.


Thanks Tom for the kind words regarding my 715 with the armored truck. It is a 2 spring car. If the armored car was last used in 1948 then what should the 715 have on it? I'm guessing a Manoil coupe? The seller made no mention of that armored truck not being the correct vehicle. Maybe he didn't know either. I need to refer to my David Doyle "American Flyer Trains" book which I should have done in the first place.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The 715 is in great condition. The 715's tend to have assorted paint chips from operating the unloading feature. If I had to pick a year of manufacture it would most likely be 1951 because that is the first time a gray painted base was used. I cannot tell from the pictures if the truck w/o the pickup has 2 or 3 springs. If it has 3 springs it is a less common version, possibly 1952 production.
> The armored truck was last used in 1948 so it is not the original load for the gray based 715 but it is in perfect shape.


Tom and cramden thanks for the the compliments. I surmised from looking in my David Doyle "American Flyer Trains" book that it is a possible 1951 which is listed as a type V but then goes on to say that SOME of the 715's produced that year had the gray body and yellow ramp. 1946 is listed as black body with yellow ramp and cargo being the armored military truck. So that fact confused me and to doubt if that armored truck was correct. The listed vehicle for 1951 should be a Manoil coupe. You guys both confirm what the book says. 
Bottom line, I have a nice armored truck for a 1946 black and yellow 715? By the way, My Greenberg pocket price guide makes no mention of a type "G". Only that 715's were produced from 1946-54 with the (a) armored truck, (b) Manoil coupe, and (c) Tootsie racer. It is a 2017 publication. Do the newer ones list this type "G" ?


----------



## mopac

Maybe I should look at the bottom of my 648 again. If I don't see anything I will take a pic
of it and post it. Is the tank in the middle for cleaning fluid? If so it should have a cap that
is removable to refill. I will look again. I just saw no sign of it being a cleaning car.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> The lot of K-Line I got is 14 pieces. 12 makes a circle. I will buy more when I see it.
> I am sure I paid a premium price. 4.65 per piece plus shipping. I got it from Moody Trains in Columbus, Ohio. There was no other on ebay. A month ago a seller had some New
> pieces but he wanted near 10.00 a piece. Too nice for me. Mine are not new but nice.
> I will find more.
> 
> I am sure you could ask a lot for the rubber roadbed.
> 
> cramden, have you seen a 648 that was not a track cleaning car.


Mopac I am so glad I started buying that K-Line track when it was first produced and was available at a sane price. I got mine at hobby stores or train shows. All brand new then. My main lines are that track. Love those nice broad curved pieces. I bought straights too to make sure I had no problem with electrical connection even though I have plenty of good, clean original Flyer track. I still have several K-Line pieces of both types left. Not to make it worse than it is, I paid $2.45 per piece then. When my local hobby store owner told me that the track was no longer being made, I bought all he had. I did the same at another "local" hobby store I knew of which was 80 miles away. 


Kenny


----------



## cramden

AFGP9 said:


> Tom and cramden thanks for the the compliments. I surmised from looking in my David Doyle "American Flyer Trains" book that it is a possible 1951 which is listed as a type V but then goes on to say that SOME of the 715's produced that year had the gray body and yellow ramp. 1946 is listed as black body with yellow ramp and cargo being the armored military truck. So that fact confused me and to doubt if that armored truck was correct. The listed vehicle for 1951 should be a Manoil coupe. You guys both confirm what the book says.
> Bottom line, I have a nice armored truck for a 1946 black and yellow 715? By the way, My Greenberg pocket price guide makes no mention of a type "G". Only that 715's were produced from 1946-54 with the (a) armored truck, (b) Manoil coupe, and (c) Tootsie racer. It is a 2017 publication. Do the newer ones list this type "G" ?


I don't use the price guides, I use the Greenberg's Guides which are hardback books. There are generally more detailed and contain lots of photos. The 715 has a lot of variations and they usually aren't listed in the pocket price guides. A Manoil coupe would be correct for your 715. The "G" is just a variation of your flat based on the truck types, it could possibly be an"F" type also. There is a total of 9 different flatcar variations, without the various loads they carried. You can find the guides on ebay at times, but they can be pricey since they're out of print. Amazon might also list them in the used book section. Your guide is correct for the loads but there were numerous colors of each. Hope this helps.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> Maybe I should look at the bottom of my 648 again. If I don't see anything I will take a pic
> of it and post it. Is the tank in the middle for cleaning fluid? If so it should have a cap that
> is removable to refill. I will look again. I just saw no sign of it being a cleaning car.


The tanks were for show, not for filling. Generally speaking, one felt roller was soaked with the track cleaning fluid and the trailing roller was left dry to wipe up the fluid from the first roller, providing you ran the car the right way. I don't have any track cleaning cars, I just use a rag with 91% Isopropyl alcohol, so I can't look at the bottom of one. The felt rollers were replaceable, I think Portlines sells them. Someone on here has to have one, so they could tell you how the metal holders for the rollers were mounted underneath.


----------



## mopac

cramden, thanks for the info on the cleaning car. I clean my track the same as you.
I like my 648 even if it does not clean. Heavy car. 

AFGP9, I am sure I will like my track. I bought it for my northerns. You can tell they are not crazy about that tighter curve track. You were smart to buy the K-Line track. I hope to find more of it.


----------



## AFGP9

cramden said:


> I don't use the price guides, I use the Greenberg's Guides which are hardback books. There are generally more detailed and contain lots of photos. The 715 has a lot of variations and they usually aren't listed in the pocket price guides. A Manoil coupe would be correct for your 715. The "G" is just a variation of your flat based on the truck types, it could possibly be an"F" type also. There is a total of 9 different flatcar variations, without the various loads they carried. You can find the guides on ebay at times, but they can be pricey since they're out of print. Amazon might also list them in the used book section. Your guide is correct for the loads but there were numerous colors of each. Hope this helps.


Cramden thanks for the information regarding the Greenberg's Guides. I suspected there was another type of Greenberg book you were referencing. I use the Greenberg price guide book for just that, a price guide. I rely on my "David Doyle American Flyer Trains" book for my information. I will look for the Greenberg's guide you mentioned. I don't think there is such a thing as too much information given the fact that Gilbert used so many variations. Since I never really paid much attention to the 715's until now, I need all the help I can use. These 715's sound much like the Circus cars and all their variations. I'm not sure I want to pursue the 715's but time will tell. 
Thanks again. 

Kenny


----------



## flyernut

I have 3-4 track cleaning cars, 648, 948, and a coupler of 5-digit cars, one with a single silver tank, and one with dual white tanks, still in the blister pack. I also have some original track cleaning fluid, in the original bottle. The cars are buried somewhere,lol...The rollers are replaceable.


----------



## mopac

Here is bottom of my 648. Nothing to mount cleaning pads to.
The 2 screws hold the tank on. The hole in middle is a guide hole
for tank. If someone has a 648 or 948 please post pic of bottom
with pad apparatus. I am not a fan of cleaning cars so bothers
me not that pad stuff is missing. I just do not see where or how
the pad stuff would mount.


----------



## mopac

Never mind posting a pic of the bottom, I found one on ebay. It mounts with a screw to
the center hole. Just held on with single screw. Mine is just missing. No biggie. Still worth
10.00 to me. I would have removed it anyway.

Case Closed.


----------



## Mike Keester

here you go



mopac said:


> Here is bottom of my 648. Nothing to mount cleaning pads to.
> The 2 screws hold the tank on. The hole in middle is a guide hole
> for tank. If someone has a 648 or 948 please post pic of bottom
> with pad apparatus. I am not a fan of cleaning cars so bothers
> me not that pad stuff is missing. I just do not see where or how
> the pad stuff would mount.
> 
> 
> View attachment 510804


----------



## mopac

AFGP9, I saw 2 cars like your 715 on ebay. Same colors. Each had a blue racer
for vehicle. I like your army truck.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Mike. That shows it. Welcome to the S forum.


----------



## cramden

Mike beat me to it.


----------



## mopac

Thanks anyway cramden. I think I learn something new about AF almost every day.


----------



## cramden

So do I it seems at times!


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks mopac for the eBay tip. I will check that out.

I have 2 of those 648's. One is in great condition with all the track cleaning parts and the other only had part of the cleaning parts. I bought that one because it was cheap, 11.00, and because I planned on taking off the remainder of the track cleaning apparatus and running I like yours looks. My other one looks like new with so very little run time on it that the wheels show no track wear so it is relegated to my display case. Plus I never planned on using it for track cleaning in the first place.


----------



## cramden

There is a topic on Your First Train set on the general model train category, so thought I'd post a couple of pics of mine. This is the 5510T American Flyer set from 1955 that Santa left the same year.


----------



## flyernut

cramden said:


> There is a topic on Your First Train set on the general model train category, so thought I'd post a couple of pics of mine. This is the 5510T American Flyer set from 1955 that Santa left the same year.
> View attachment 510816
> 
> 
> View attachment 510818


I have 3 of those sets, one for each of my kids.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## AmFlyer

To have your original sets is very nice. This set was obviously treated with care when it was used.


----------



## cramden

Only came out for about 3 weeks around Christmas. We only ran them under adult supervision. Then Dad bought a Life Like "HO" pre-formed over and under layout molded on a plastic base, I'm guessing in the early sixties. Still not sure why. The 3 original sets went into hibernation until I got them out of my parents attic in late 1982.


----------



## cramden

flyernut said:


> I have 3 of those sets, one for each of my kids.:smilie_daumenpos:


I think there's enough for the 4 kids and 5 grand kids to pick from. They might not want any of them. My wife can sell it all, it won't matter to me since I won't be around. :laugh:


----------



## AFGP9

Nice looking set cramden. I could make that set up from my rolling stock since I have all those pieces in multiples except the 283. Only have 1 of those. I am not a set collector like you and some others though. I have thought about putting together display sets from information you and others have provided. I could put the sets in my display case since there are no set boxes. Most of my engines are not ran on the layout anyway even though most are serviced to run. A few aren't yet but that's what winters are for, right? As far as various cars are concerned, several are on the layout and some are displayed in the case. 
Thanks for the inspirational idea. 

I'll repeat something I said a while back. I always learn something new from the S forum seems like everyday. Never boring for sure.


----------



## AFGP9

Photo for the day, a 752 Seaboard Coaler. I say 752 because it has the old style controller as opposed to the 752A which uses a red controller. I have no box. 
It is sitting in a semi-finished portion of my layout. One of those things I've meaning to get to.......someday. 
It operates very well. Something I have had for many years. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice picture, especially for what you call unfinished. Looks finished to me, I suppose some details could be added but it is good as it is. 
The 752 uses a two button controller, the 752A uses a three button controller. The third button controls a gate above the chute that is normally closed. This allows prefilling the bin with coal and then pushing the button to fill the hopper positioned under the chute.


----------



## mopac

Very nice coaler. Looks new.


----------



## cramden

Nice loader, the scene looks fine to me. A lot more finished than what I've managed to accomplish with any of my layouts. The 752 or 752A, or even the 785 have so far not followed me home for various reasons. Mostly, it's lack of self-control. Even when I went to shows with that specific item in mind, there was always it's not nice enough, too expensive for what was offered, or I just dropped the ball and bought other items. But, there is still time.


----------



## AFGP9

Cramden, I bought that loader some years back when they were somewhat cheaper. I have seen some since that weren't as nice but for way too much money now. I'd like to add the 785 Coal Loader but there again way too much money at shows. I've noticed some train show sellers lately are pretty proud of what they have to sell. My problem is do I spend money on rolling stock additions and variations or accessories? 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Nice picture, especially for what you call unfinished. Looks finished to me, I suppose some details could be added but it is good as it is.
> The 752 uses a two button controller, the 752A uses a three button controller. The third button controls a gate above the chute that is normally closed. This allows prefilling the bin with coal and then pushing the button to fill the hopper positioned under the chute.


Thanks for the compliments on the scene around the Coaler and the Coaler itself, mopac, cramden and Tom. Mine has the 2 button controller. I am a stickler for scene details when it comes to my layouts so that is why the area around the Coaler I consider unfinished. Another project on my to do list.....sometime.

Kenny


----------



## cramden

AFGP9 said:


> Cramden, I bought that loader some years back when they were somewhat cheaper. I have seen some since that weren't as nice but for way too much money now. I'd like to add the 785 Coal Loader but there again way too much money at shows. I've noticed some train show sellers lately are pretty proud of what they have to sell. My problem is do I spend money on rolling stock additions and variations or accessories?
> 
> Kenny


I think the reissue of the loaders gave me pause on buying an original one. There is a lot of quality items for sale lately, so some folks want top dollar for them. I just haven't been buying a lot. Are there items out there I want? You betcha, but I can't even display all I have now and selling something to get something else just doesn't seem right to me. I'm the last person to tell you how to spend your money. I can be like a kid in a candy store. No self control when it comes to trains!


----------



## mopac

I have not waded in to AF accessories. Has saved me a lot of money and aggravations.
I do want one of the brown water towers.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I have not waded in to AF accessories. Has saved me a lot of money and aggravations.
> I do want one of the brown water towers.


I waited for a long time too before I first started to collect accessories. I still haven't gone too crazy buying them. It does save a lot of money. I do however have 4 of those 596 water towers scattered around my layout. 1 has black legs but most common are gray legs. Honestly, except for the black legs, the 2 different shades of gray are hard to tell apart unless they are side by side. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Here is a photo of my 2 remaining 922 GAEX box cars. As I said earlier, they are both in service on my layout. The scrapes over the decal of both to me are just what you would see in a real train consist. I have thought about weathering them with chalk that way if I ever get decals for them I can wash them off. Since I have a layout geared toward realism and train running, I have a thing for well used rolling stock. I have a number of different kinds of cars that are not so pretty but look realistic as you would find on the real thing. A big plus when buying not so nice cars is generally they are cheap to buy at train shows. All the lettering is in nice condition which isn't too clear in the photo. 
Don't get me wrong, I have a number of nice like new cars that never get on the layout. That's what glass display cases are for.


----------



## mopac

You would love my rolling stock. Well used. Not many are pristine. But like you
said, they are cheap. I don't like paying over 10.00 for a car. They are fine for runners.


----------



## AFGP9

Yep mopac my thoughts exactly. Now that's not to say if I see something like new I wouldn't buy it if the price is right. I do have more room in my show cases. My primary goal when going to a train show is to get the most for my money but not all of it on one car which is possible. $10-$12 is my usual price point because I know where those cars are going....on the layout.


----------



## cramden

For my picture of the day, a couple of boxcars.


----------



## mopac

like them both. Very nice.


----------



## dooper

mopac said:


> I have not waded in to AF accessories. Has saved me a lot of money and aggravations.
> I do want one of the brown water towers.


Good things come to those that wait. Check your mail on Monday.


----------



## AmFlyer

I like all the 980 series cars and their 5 digit counterparts. Those are two nice examples.


----------



## cramden

Thanks, at one time I had all of the 980 3 digit ones, but sold some of those off when thinning the herd. I should have kept the 989 Northwestern, that was my favorite of the 980 series. Never had any of the 5 digit ones.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

My two new tank cars.


----------



## mopac

I love tank cars Broke. They may be my favorites. Look good. Nice to see you posting.
You have been quiet. Been watching for you.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> I love tank cars Broke. They may be my favorites. Look good. Nice to see you posting.
> You have been quiet. Been watching for you.


I folow this forum every day but I have not had much to say lately. Thanks for the complement. I love tanks cars also.


----------



## AmFlyer

I like the Koppers tank car. Koppers is associated with Pittsburgh, where I am from.


----------



## cramden

Good looking tank cars Fred, the layout looks like it's coming along nicely. Lots of accessories. Glad to see you posted again.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

cramden said:


> Good looking tank cars Fred, the layout looks like it's coming along nicely. Lots of accessories. Glad to see you posted again.


Thanks!


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I like the Koppers tank car. Koppers is associated with Pittsburgh, where I am from.


I like those Koppers cars too but why on every one I have ever seen is the "Koppers" insignia always faded? I have looked at countless ones over the years at train shows all are faded. Too many fingers touching that insignia maybe? 

Kenny


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

My new toy. The only problem is that the beacon does not rotate due to the cold, did I say cold, in my garage.


----------



## mopac

Love the beacon Broke. Looks like a nice one. Man, you have some accessories.


----------



## cramden

Good looking beacon Fred. Sometimes by playing with the angles on the beacon cover you can get them to rotate from the heat of the bulb, but most times they don't work as designed. Give it a spin and enjoy it while its moving.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Thanks Mopac! And, Cramden, that is just exactly what I do. I will wait until next summer to see if it will do anything better.


----------



## AFGP9

I have one of those Beacon Towers as well. Same issue, the beacon light does not turn. I have the correct dimpled bulb for the point to set on to spin but nothing. Yeah I can spin it but that's not fun. Mostly it just sets and shines. I don't have an airport any how. I'll post a picture of it as soon as I take one. 

Kenny


----------



## dooper

Just keep the bulb lit, and it should move. Mine is in the basement, unheated, but not too cold, but not warm. Check the vanes on the top and make sure they are adjusted properly - should all have the same angle. They are just like the old Christmas ornaments that spun around, but I am sure most of you are not as old as I and don't remember them.


----------



## mopac

Like the candle holder with the angel and vanes. heat from the candle turns the vanes.


----------



## AFGP9

dooper said:


> Just keep the bulb lit, and it should move. Mine is in the basement, unheated, but not too cold, but not warm. Check the vanes on the top and make sure they are adjusted properly - should all have the same angle. They are just like the old Christmas ornaments that spun around, but I am sure most of you are not as old as I and don't remember them.


I do remember those ornaments since I am 73 years old. 

As to adjusting those vanes on the beacon, I have tried them at all kinds of angles. No luck. Gave up. I took mine off the layout for a photo and what to my wondering eyes should I see but mine is a Lionel!! Like a lot of my accessories, I bought this many years ago but sure don't remember it being a Lionel!

Kenny


----------



## cramden

dooper said:


> Just keep the bulb lit, and it should move. Mine is in the basement, unheated, but not too cold, but not warm. Check the vanes on the top and make sure they are adjusted properly - should all have the same angle. They are just like the old Christmas ornaments that spun around, but I am sure most of you are not as old as I and don't remember them.


 I don't know about our ages, but I have a little boxed set of those. One of my other weaknesses, vintage Christmas ornaments. They are just as difficult to get working right. I have the C-7 strings of lights that you need to sit them atop of. The hardest part is getting the bulb to stay vertical so the little shades sit up straight. I will post a picture of them when the Christmas decorations come out for their yearly appearance.


----------



## AFGP9

I also wanted to post my 2 track cleaning cars. One is the 648 and the other is a 24533. The 648 has had one of the link couplers converted to KC by the guy I bought it from at a show. This car is also missing a cleaning brush/sponge. I bought some from Portlines. I put them where I wouldn't lose them. Now if I could only remember where that is.
The 648 is a 3 spring car. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice cars. Buy a couple more of the replacement sponges then you will find the ones you already have.
I do not recall that silver and black UP caboose in the background, it looks nice. I assume that is a modern Lionel Flyer car.


----------



## AFGP9

Yep buying more of something you can't find is the best way to find it. That maybe why I have so many shop tools and supplies even though everything gets put back where it belongs. I always think anyway. 
Yes that Southern Pacific caboose you spotted is an American Flyer/Lionel item. I love cabooses. I don't have nearly all that I want. Read that can afford since some are pricey. At least I think so. 

Kenny


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

*24319 Tank Car*

I am a sucker for tank cars.


----------



## flyernut

Here's a pix of my Santa Fe post war diesels from Lionel. I have the original boxes as well as the set box for the 2 A units. I also have 2 B units and 8-10 passenger cars for it. My cousin gave me this set for doing him a favor...


----------



## flyernut

My post-war Trainmaster from Lionel. Runs as new, just like my Santa Fe diesels. Original boxes with this one as well.. My cousin gave me this one also.


----------



## flyernut

My dirty lay-out.. I use natural weathering,lol....


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

flyernut said:


> My dirty lay-out.. I use natural weathering,lol....
> View attachment 511650
> 
> 
> View attachment 511652


Is that a three rail that I see?


----------



## dooper

How do I become a cousin of your cousin?


----------



## AFGP9

My thought exactly. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

flyernut said:


> My dirty lay-out.. I use natural weathering,lol....
> 
> Flyernut it seems you and I subscribe to the same weathering procedure. I refer to mine as "natural house weathering".
> 
> Kenny


----------



## flyernut

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Is that a three rail that I see?


I have a ton of O scale including Pa units, FA units, Lionel, K-Line, and MTH... That outside O scale loop is for my Big Boy and Allegheny locomotives.


----------



## flyernut

dooper said:


> How do I become a cousin of your cousin?


He's my favorite cousin, visiting him since the mid 50's. I've gone deer and bear hunting with him and my uncle way back when..He had a huge collection of hit and miss engines, he collected and restored antique John Deere tractors, and had a great collection of firearms, including a sample of every model shotgun Winchester ever made, including other brands such as Marlin, Browning, and Remington.. He started and owned his own tool and die company, and when he retired and sold the company, he was a multi-millionaire. He has a heart of gold.....And as life would have it, as soon as he retired he was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease..He sold all his hit and miss engines, got rid of all the firearms, sold his tractors, and basically got rid of everything he collected during his life. He was a practical man, getting ready for his vastly reduced way of life.. He's still around, and I just spoke with him several days ago, and I sent him several magazines about the Pennsylvania RR..He loves the Pennsy, and he'll be able to read in his bed.. He lives in a beautiful area of PA, with mountains and natural springs everywhere. All my family came from PA shortly after WWII, and settled here in upstate NY.After he passes, I'll never have a need to go there again..


----------



## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> flyernut said:
> 
> 
> 
> My dirty lay-out.. I use natural weathering,lol....
> 
> Flyernut it seems you and I subscribe to the same weathering procedure. I refer to mine as "natural house weathering".
> 
> Kenny
> 
> 
> 
> My layout is L-shaped, 12' x 12' with 6' short ends. The problem I have is I can't get to the middle of the layout.. When we had the O scale set up,it was 12' x 12' with 5 loops of O scale.. What a NOISE those trains made when all 5 loops were running.. You had to shout to talk to anyone,lol..And then a good buddy of mine introduced me to EBAY!!!!!!. Out went the O scale and in came my child-hood favorites, AF!! I still have all the O scale, huge boxes of the stuff!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## cramden

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I am a sucker for tank cars.


Great looking Penn salt tank car Fred. Lionel has cooled my jets to get an original one... for the time being anyway.


----------



## cramden

Great looking Lionel engines flyernut. They appear to be in perfect condition. A very nice gesture from your cousin.


----------



## flyernut

cramden said:


> Great looking Lionel engines flyernut. They appear to be in perfect condition. A very nice gesture from your cousin.


Yes, they are in wonderful condition, as well as the aluminum passenger cars.. I would love to show off my Big Boy and Allegheny but they are buried deep in my bedroom closet.


----------



## mopac

Can not have too many trains but sometimes it is hard to find the one you are looking for.

I know I have over 130 HO locomotives, some are dummies, 3 Big Boys.
Around 20 AF steamers, around 11 flyonel diesels.
Around 10 O scale engines.
around 7 N scale locomotives. Maybe more.
2 G scale locomotives.

Please, NO more trains


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## mopac

This 
may be my nicest locomotive, O scale, not most expensive, got a deal on it.
Its bad to the bone.

N&W #611


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

cramden said:


> Great looking Penn salt tank car Fred. Lionel has cooled my jets to get an original one... for the time being anyway.


Thanks Cramden! I like tank cars but I think that I should limit my acquisitions to early post war cars. The newer ones are quite nice but my un-checked budget is limited.:laugh: So far "She, who must be obeyed!" hasn't complained too much. hwell:


----------



## cramden

Great looking engine mopac, sure wish they had made one in "S."


----------



## mopac

You are lucky Broke, don't push it. That is a nice blue tanker. I like.


Thanks cramden. It really is a looker. Got it off ebay. Seller had it on display but NEVER run. I checked the wheels
and I would say it had not been run. It has great sound and fan driven smoke unit. It will smoke you out of the house.
Its MTH Premier scale. A little bigger than normal O scale.

Forgot to say - I hate 3 rail track, does not look real. But that O scale stuff runs great.


----------



## AFGP9

I decided to post 2 different photos. The first is a static ski train scene using an HO Atlas UP engine, box car and a Sunset Ltd. passenger car I had in my stored HO collection. Using the HO smaller scale gives the idea that the train is farther away. The mountain it sets on is actually 3 ft. tall. I got the scene idea from a TV program that was showing something similar in Colorado. 
The second photo is a an anniversary box car I bought new at the Tinley Park, Il. S Fest one year. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Nice car to have. In two years it will be 75 years, I wonder if Lionel will make a special 75th anniversary car.


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## mopac

I have shown these before but I like seeing them. These are
my 2 northerns. Paint is about as good as they come on both. I paid a bundle for each but they are worth it to me. I have a lot of
bargains but that would not be these. A 336 and a 332AC. They both run great. I have put a new wire harness on the 336 and the
332AC I have done nothing to it.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Very nice Al! I especially like the 332AC! I would put it under glass and set it upon the mantle. (If I had one:laugh::laugh::laugh


----------



## mopac

Might as well show 336 pulling some UP passenger cars.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Broke. They are the pride of my fleet. They both belong in a display case.


Broke, I do have a mantle over the fireplace, but it is not very deep. I would be afraid to put them there.
We do have earth quakes here. Seldom but enough it would worry me.


336 is knuckle coupler
332AC is link coupler

336 came from New York
332AC came from Texas


----------



## AFGP9

Love those locomotives mopac. Both are on my want list. Also on my want list is money to buy them with. 
Hopefully some day. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Nice car to have. In two years it will be 75 years, I wonder if Lionel will make a special 75th anniversary car.


Thanks Tom. I wish I knew if Lionel was planning a 75th anniversary car. It would make a good companion to my 50th year one. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice engines Mopac. I would run those on a layout once in a while, they are too nice to be hidden away.


----------



## flyernut

Nice locos buddy. I too, like everyone else, love the Northerns.. I remember the one Dad bought. It was a K335.Dad sold all the trains while I was in the Service, and I have replaced everyone I had as a kid. I have a 332AC, K335, and a 336, plus all the cars that go with each loco/set..


----------



## mopac

Thanks everyone on the comments. I hope to have a K335 someday.


----------



## AFGP9

Here is my great running 293 Pacific on the photo posing track. As is evident by the natural house weathering, it is running on the layout all the time. I have another one but it needs work. Another "later" project. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Great looking 293. They are nice locomotives. Good paint and strong lettering on that one.


----------



## AmFlyer

I also like the flat, crane and work caboose on the siding in the background.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks for the kind words mopac and Tom. Mopac, the nice lettering is what attracted me to that locomotive in the first place. It was sitting in a sea of other locomotives one year at Du Page and really stood out. As I said, I have another but not as nice so it sits waiting for attention. This locomotive is a strong puller. 

Tom I have 3 versions of those work cabooses and 4 other flat cars all different numbers. I noticed after I took the picture that the rails under the flat car are not rust painted and I didn't put any extra ties under the rails. As somebody said on the forum, it is amazing what details come out when taking pictures. Gotta rectify that track over site. 

Kenny


----------



## cramden

Nice one Kenny, your pics on your layout keeps reminding me how I have to get busy on my layout. Since we're doing 293's, here's mine from a boxed 5525TBW set from 1955. In case anyone is curious about the wood block, that was placed between the cab and the tender when wrapped for shipping to avoid damage. The black wrap is behind the engine. I posted a pic of the 912 Koppers tank car before and will post the other cars from the set as soon as I take some pics.


----------



## AmFlyer

The lettering on the OW is nice and legible. I have some OW engines with the wood blocks, I think they are all KC engines. It also has the coal pusher.


----------



## cramden

I wasn't sure on the wood blocks with link coupler sets. I have seen pics of sets with these, but not linker sets. Here are the other cars from the set and the billboard whistle.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a very fine set. I think you need to add a hidden lower level storage yard so these trains can be brought out and run!


----------



## mopac

Kenny, you are correct about strong lettering standing out.

cramden, your 293 is a dandy also. Your cars always look new. Very few of mine do
.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, unless you are buying glass case only cars and you run your trains on a layout, they shouldn't look new. I have bought several because of like new or were new just for my display case but others just for runners. Scratches and scrapes are what I see on the real thing and since I want things to look natural on my layout, not so great cars it is. Plus as we have discussed before, they are way cheaper than pristine cars. It is all a matter of what you are trying to do. 
Don't miss understand. A nice shiny set running around the lay out is nice. I have a couple of consists that I will get out from time to time. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

cramden said:


> Nice one Kenny, your pics on your layout keeps reminding me how I have to get busy on my layout. Since we're doing 293's, here's mine from a boxed 5525TBW set from 1955. In case anyone is curious about the wood block, that was placed between the cab and the tender when wrapped for shipping to avoid damage. The black wrap is behind the engine. I posted a pic of the 912 Koppers tank car before and will post the other cars from the set as soon as I take some pics.
> View attachment 512274


Nice 293 and all those cars Cramden. You seem to have so many nice sets. I've never been a set collector but after seeing some of your stuff makes me which I had. I just bought what ever I wanted because I knew I was going to run trains on a layout so I just bought engines and rolling stock as I saw fit and liked. 
I have enough cars and locomotives plus old catalogs that I could make sets I suppose. The closest I come to a set is a 5001T. It has all the cars but no farm scene inserts and no original boxes. Maybe no track locks either. I'd have to dig it out and look. 

Kenny


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> That is a very fine set. I think you need to add a hidden lower level storage yard so these trains can be brought out and run!


No room Tom for any expansion unfortunately. 
Thanks mopac, I try to buy the best condition I can afford. Kenny, some of my sets are boxed, some are sets without the set box, mostly bought from private individuals. 3 sets are my original ones without the set boxes, Yes they were tossed out years ago. Who knew the value at the time, they were after all just toys. I also have some made up sets since I had the engines and cars to complete them. I like to display and run them as the sets the way Gilbert marketed them.


----------



## cramden

A few 3 spring link cars. It's amazing how fast the die has worn on the trucks for only being made for 2 years (52-53).


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

My photo of the day is of my new AF 470 Chrome Diesel. I bought it on eBay and of course it doesn't run. But it does buzz and the headlight comes on. All in all, it looks good with only a few scratches and damaged decals. I am not unhappy but I did pay too much for it. I want to get a B Unit and a dummy A if they come available. All three together aer starting for $300 and goes up from there.:laugh:


----------



## mopac

Good looking locomotive Broke. Hope you get it running without too much trouble.

cramden, those are nice looking cars. I have all three of the cars but of coarse not in that condition.


----------



## cramden

Nice looking PA Fred. The chrome on yours looks to be in very good condition. The chrome ones were 1953 only and had American Flyer Lines on the side. The 54 ones were satin silver painted with the same lettering . The 55 PA's had Santa Fe on the side and American Flyer. There are some that come up on ebay that people sell individually, while others sell them as ABA sets. The chrome ones are some of my favorites. Hopefully, yours just needs cleaning up from sitting.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

cramden said:


> Nice looking PA Fred. The chrome on yours looks to be in very good condition. The chrome ones were 1953 only and had American Flyer Lines on the side. The 54 ones were satin silver painted with the same lettering . The 55 PA's had Santa Fe on the side and American Flyer. There are some that come up on ebay that people sell individually, while others sell them as ABA sets. The chrome ones are some of my favorites. Hopefully, yours just needs cleaning up from sitting.


It looks quite good. There is a little wear and a scratch or two. I will keep you posted as to how it runs. However, it may be a little while. I have never even opened up a diesel so I might try. We will see...


----------



## AFGP9

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> My photo of the day is of my new AF 470 Chrome Diesel. I bought it on eBay and of course it doesn't run. But it does buzz and the headlight comes on. All in all, it looks good with only a few scratches and damaged decals. I am not unhappy but I did pay too much for it. I want to get a B Unit and a dummy A if they come available. All three together aer starting for $300 and goes up from there.:laugh:


Nice chrome over all on that Santa Fe. Hard to fine good chrome on those. If ever I would buy diesels other than the 3 370 GP7's and my 2 UP 372 GP 7's, I always thought an ABA Santa Fe chrome set would be a nice addition. 
Good luck on completing the ABA set at a "reasonable" price. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

cramden said:


> No room Tom for any expansion unfortunately.
> Thanks mopac, I try to buy the best condition I can afford. Kenny, some of my sets are boxed, some are sets without the set box, mostly bought from private individuals. 3 sets are my original ones without the set boxes, Yes they were tossed out years ago. Who knew the value at the time, they were after all just toys. I also have some made up sets since I had the engines and cars to complete them. I like to display and run them as the sets the way Gilbert marketed them.


Cramden, I could make that same 293 set from my rolling stock and the billboard. In fact you got me to thinking about sets. Still not a set collector but I have enough different locomotives and rolling stock I could put together a few sets. My David Doyle book lists all Gilbert produced sets and their contents. All I have to do is raid my glass case cars and see what I can assemble. A few from the layout would work too but most are runner quality on purpose. No boxes of course. 

Kenny


----------



## flyernut

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> It looks quite good. There is a little wear and a scratch or two. I will keep you posted as to how it runs. However, it may be a little while. I have never even opened up a diesel so I might try. We will see...


Be very careful Fred, those things are beasts!!!!. It's probably a 2 motor engine, and now you're doubling your troubles...


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

flyernut said:


> Be very careful Fred, those things are beasts!!!!. It's probably a 2 motor engine, and now you're doubling your troubles...


I will not try it Loren. It is destined to sit on the shelf and look pretty!:laugh::laugh::laugh: I could not resist a pretty face.


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## mopac

I will always remember flyernut's term for those old diesels. FINNICKY. That's enough
for me. If he thinks that, what in the world would I be in for.


Broke, I had fits just trying to get the screws back in to hold body to frame. I had to buy a magnetized
screw driver. No room to get screws started with fingers. I am talking about the Fly/Onel PAs. Pretty sure it is same set up
on the old ones.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> I will always remember flyernut's term for those old diesels. FINNICKY. That's enough
> for me. If he thinks that, what in the world would I be in for.
> 
> 
> Broke, I had fits just trying to get the screws back in to hold body to frame. I had to buy a magnetized
> screw driver. No room to get screws started with fingers. I am talking about the Fly/Onel PAs. Pretty sure it is same set up
> on the old ones.


I worked on a single motor Santa Fe, and I was pulling my hair out with it. I would fix one thing, and then have to fix two more. I had over $35 bucks into that monster, but by-jimminy, when it left here, it was a running fool!


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I will always remember flyernut's term for those old diesels. FINNICKY. That's enough
> for me. If he thinks that, what in the world would I be in for.
> 
> 
> Broke, I had fits just trying to get the screws back in to hold body to frame. I had to buy a magnetized
> screw driver. No room to get screws started with fingers. I am talking about the Fly/Onel PAs. Pretty sure it is same set up
> on the old ones.


Way back when I bought a Rocket 4745 double AA chrome set with all the cars for a song. As things turned out, a sad song! The chrome was pretty good, not perfect buy good. The bad part was that in ran poorly. Not backing away from a challenge I decided to try and figure out what the issue was. The 474 was a dual motor type. Once I got the body off the challenge began. I won't bore everybody with the gory details but suffice to say it took me along time of trial and error to get things right. 
I sold that set along with all the cars right quick and made myself a promise to never buy a PA engine again even though I still want a chrome Santa Fe AA or ABA set but they better be running perfectly, if that is even possible. Not at the top of my want list. 
I can sum up the whole sorry mess in one word, "frustrating"! Flyernut you called PA's finicky? I called that one way more than that. PA's are the devil's invention I tell ya!! 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I don't have a one of the old AF diesels. It will probably remain that way. I did something just as bad though. I bought 4 of the repro PA sets by Lionel. I do not like them and they were in the $400.00 to $500.00 range each. How did that happen? I guess I thought, if they were made by Lionel they would be ok. I bought all 4 of them before I ran one set. Not too smart. The engine shells were made from the original AF molds. They look great, but of terrible design. Very close to the originals. The passenger cars are beautiful. Most of them will be pulled by my steamers. So they are now expensive passenger cars. The locomotives are junk. Sure wish I had run one and then there would not be 4 sets of them. Here are 2 of them.

















They are good looking trains.


.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I don't have a one of the old AF diesels. It will probably remain that way. I did something just as bad though. I bought 4 of the repro PA sets by Lionel. I do not like them and they were in the $400.00 to $500.00 range each. How did that happen? I guess I thought, if they were made by Lionel they would be ok. I bought all 4 of them before I ran one set. Not too smart. The engine shells were made from the original AF molds. They look great, but of terrible design. Very close to the originals. The passenger cars are beautiful. Most of them will be pulled by my steamers. So they are now expensive passenger cars. The locomotives are junk. Sure wish I had run one and then there would not be 4 sets of them. Here are 2 of them.
> 
> View attachment 513036
> 
> 
> View attachment 513038
> 
> 
> They are good looking trains.
> 
> 
> .


Mopac those are good looking trains. Too bad they are as you described. I gotta tell ya though, not to twist the knife, the guys over on the "O" forum have been bashing Lionel's lack of quality control for a while now. Some have have said no more Lionel. My point is, your assumption that because Lionel made the AF engines they would be of good quality. I thought the same thing until their complaints started to come out. I think I mentioned that I had thought about buying one of the steamers in the catalog but didn't. I cited the reasons why but I didn't mention the complaints on Lionel's lack of quality control that I had read as another reason why I didn't buy. I should have mentioned that fact. 
One more thing while I think of it. Those guys also mentioned Lionel's poor warranty service when problems do arise and you must send your locomotive in for repairs then wait for MONTHS to get your locomotive back. 
Check that forum site, especially comments from Lee Willis and GRJ. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyerFan

mopac said:


> View attachment 513036
> 
> 
> View attachment 513038
> 
> 
> They are good looking trains.
> 
> 
> .


Those are two good looking trains.

I would never bash another's choice in what they collect. It all comes down to personal choice/likes (obviously)-I choose AF.

In 2 weeks (Nov. 16th) there is a local train show, I can't wait.
http://www.granitecitytrainshow.com

There are very few shows here in Minnesnowta.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have never had a problem with a 370 GP7 or the 360/364 PA/PB sets. All of mine run fine. Pulling the shells for minor cleaning and adjustments is easy. The knuckle coupler versions are a different story. Of all my later GP7's and PA sets only one, a NP runs well. I do not bother to try to repair or rebuild them, I have better things to do with my time.
I use American Models diesels to pull my knuckle coupler passenger car sets. They always run well. Also have some (5) of the newer Legacy diesels from Lionel, have had no problems with them. I have one FlyerChief GP7 as well, they are inexpensive and seem to run great. My UP GP7 pulls 15 Gilbert freight cars up a 2% grade.
The 4xx Gilbert PA's and the later 5 digit versions are for collectors, not operators in my opinion.


----------



## Mikeh49

As a kid, about 1960, I had a 5 digit single motor Santa Fe PA that ran great. I ran it a lot with zero issues. It even had a 2-position reverse unit. 

I also have one of MoPacs hated SP PAs and it has run fine except for the almost immediate failure of the electronic reverse unit. Then it ran forward.  A few years ago I put in an old electronic unit I had and it now runs both directions. Seems pretty smooth to me. It does have complex wiring with two motors and dual winding fields and the motors facing opposite directions.


----------



## mopac

LOL, I am a little hard on those Lionel S sets. I guess I expected too much out of them.
I expected them to run like my Lionel O locomotives. No where close.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have been out of the country for two weeks. During that time I tried to post some pictures but had inadequate bandwidth to upload other than text. So here it is.
These two cars, 652 and 654 are my originals, they were a Christmas gift in 1951, I was way too young to remember. They have the single number typical of later production but the 652 has San serif lettering and the 654 has serif lettering.
Included is a picture of them on a quick layout I put under a tree. It took 30 minutes to build after I spent 2 hours to find all the items. There are 5 Gilbert accessories plus some Plasticville on the layout. The 585 Tool Shed and the 593 Signal Tower are also my originals. Included are a 750 Trestle Bridge, a 768 Shell Oil Supply Depot and a 26758 Rerailer.
Also visible in the corner is an MRC AH101 Used to power the layout.


----------



## cramden

Great looking heavyweights Tom, My wife got me the same 2 for my birthday years ago. I've managed to pick up a 653 baggage car although it's missing a baggage door and one coupler has since broken apart. I still need another 652, but have yet to get one. I also picked up a 4613A set with the red heavyweights. I have always been curious about the single and double #'s and the Sans serif and serif lettering. All of my red ones are single # cars but the lettering is a mixed bag including 2 different serif fonts. I will post some pics. probably tomorrow and see if you can make some sense of them.


----------



## AmFlyer

I only have 4 of the green cars, all are single number. I have around 10 of the unpainted red heavyweights. Some are double and some are single number. All the ones with brass coupler weights are double number. Also have two of the 652 painted Pikes Peak cars and 4 of the red ones. There were several color variations of red paint used. The Pikes Peak cars are thin plastic rather than thicker bakelite.


----------



## cramden

I'll have to post some pictures of mine tomorrow. The green ones are bakelite and I believe the red ones are too. I have 2- 652 Pikes Peak cars, both are painted red. I always called them maroon because the color looks darker than red. Here's a picture of one I posted a while ago.


----------



## mopac

Nice passenger cars Tom and cramden. I have none but really like them.


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking heavy weight passenger cars cramden and Tom. I have green ones that I will have to post. Call me crazy but I like all the heavy weight cars better than the aluminum and chrome cars. Along with my Rocket chrome AA set and the cars that went with them, I also sold the other 16 of those newer cars I had because they just didn't fit my layout era. Yes I could have kept them and displayed them but got a good offer for all and took it. I put the money to better use buying other American Flyer freight cars and accessories.


----------



## AFGP9

Here is a picture of my heavy weight passenger cars. I will get a better picture later. 
At present they are off the layout stored on a shelf with other odds and ends. 

Kenny


----------



## cramden

Thanks for the comments mopac and Kenny. It appears that you're hiding the heavyweight Kenny behind the New Haven coaches. Here's my 3 unpainted green heavyweights, the 652 and the 654 are single number and the 653 is a two number. Only the 654 has serif stamped letters. None have brass link couplers. The baggage car needs a door and a new coupler on one end. That's the one I picked up to go with the two my wife bought me. I still need to get another 652 coach also.


----------



## mopac

OK cramden. I need some education. 2 number, I see 3 on each.
Nice cars.


----------



## cramden

One # means the 652,653, or 654 is centered in the middle, two #'s mean there's a # at each end of the car. Serif means the lettering has the fancy top and bottom feet(654). Sans serif means just block type lettering.(652) Hope this helps.


----------



## mopac

Thanks cramden, I do see it now. I had heard the term but no clue on meaning. Thanks.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice cars. They look good on the layout.


----------



## mopac

I have showed this before. Here it is again. I like this station.
It is 1/64. It also comes in Gulf.


----------



## mopac

I went to ebay to see if there was some on. Plenty. I see they have some new names.
Besides Texaco and Gulf, they now have Shell, Chevron, Standard Oil, Pennzoil, and
Pure Oil. They also have plain white you can custom paint. Price ranges from 16.00 to
36.00. They are all the same so buy the cheapest. They look good on a layout. Bought
mine at Toys R Us for 19 .00 something. Both garage doors open and close. They don't
come with cars.

Find them with "GreenLight gas station".


----------



## AmFlyer

Those are nice service stations and the correct scale as well. Unfortunately the space I had for the gas station was too small for one of those to fit. Here is the smaller Gulf station that did fit, a different design.
While I was at it this morning I took a picture of the scale firehouse across the street from the gas station.


----------



## mopac

Nice pics Tom. Buildings look great.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks. I see I need to clean up some stray bits of ballast from the roads.


----------



## mopac

My station does not come with a roof for garage section. GreenLight makes a package 
of things for the garage area like a mechanics tool box and such. I guess so you can see them. I still need to get a piece of styrene, paint it, and glue it for over garage area. Got to have a roof.

Funny how things show up in pics. I did not notice the ballast till you mentioned it.


----------



## cramden

Nice looking gas stations guys. I have the small Plasticville one, packed away with my other Plasticville. Tom, are the buildings on your layout kits or are they made for you specifically?


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I did not realize your station was missing the roof over the service bays. I thought it was just depressed below the level of the visible bricks.
In addition to the gas station I have an automotive repair shop on the layout. This is a 1/64th scale model of a real building in Castle Shannon Pa. It is about a mile from where I grew up, drove past it several times per week. I could not believe someone in San Diego made and sold an S scale kit of it.
Also below is a picture of the real garage taken 3 years ago. If you do a detail comparison the last two sidewall “steps” at the rear of the building are missing. We had to cut that piece of wall off the kit to get it to fit the available space. It is nice to have something real and personal part of the layout.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, the gas station and the firehouse are commercial kits. The Fellers Garage per the above is also a commercial kit. All the structures in the freight and passenger yards are commercial kits. The roundhouse is an S scale kit, most of the others are HO that were modified with added foundation walls and taller doors to work for S. The balance of the tall city buildings are shallow flats. These were custom made from scaled CAD files fed to a laser cutter. They are built up from 5 layers of plastic custom cut from the CAD files, glued together and painted.
The elevated viaduct and all the bridges were made the same way to get the correct 1/64th dimensions. I have pictures of these in pieces after they came off the laser cutter table if anyone is interested.


----------



## cramden

Thanks Tom. They're great looking kits. Really impressive that someone can take a kit and adapt it to another scale. The viaduct reminds me of the PRR bridge over the Schuylkill river in Philly.


----------



## AmFlyer

This is a picture of the assembled Fellers Garage kit prior to cutting off the last segments of the side walls.


----------



## cramden

Neat to have something to remind you of where you grew up and the memories it brings.


----------



## mopac

The Feller Garage is too cool. Very nice.
Pretty true to actual photo.

Maybe I should depress the roof on my station.


----------



## cramden

Following my green heavyweights, here is my set of red Bakelite ones.


----------



## AmFlyer

Those are nice heavyweights. They will look good behind a Northern, or a Hudson, or a PRR K-5.


----------



## cramden

Thanks, I run them behind a 322AC mostly. These would be the my won't sell if I had to get rid of everything I have excluding my 3 original sets. I like the Hudson pulling them. I have the 1953 Trailblazer set with the 316 K-5 and the red heavyweights with knuckle couplers, so I stick with the Hudson on these link coupler ones. I'll take some pics of them next. I'll get a picture of my 322AC, I was sure I had posted one of it, but can't find it in my pics. folders.


----------



## AmFlyer

After cleaning the ballast off the roads and some rearrangement I took two more pictures. As someone said, it is surprising what is visible in pictures that is not seen otherwise.


----------



## cramden

Great scene Tom, nice touch on the lit traffic signal and street lights. I'll bet it looks great in the dark. Yes, the camera always seems to find the smallest flaw that the eye misses.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, you noticed that traffic signal. I have seven on the layout, six pole mounted and that one wire suspended. They come with a circuit board that rotates through the three colors as prototypical. There are a lot of street lights and yard lights, illuminated signs and building lights. It does look pretty good at night.


----------



## cramden

The camera also finds the smallest details, so that's the good part of a picture.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, I see all of your heavyweights are single number except a green 653. I have some double number red 652’s and a 654. Spent some time looking for them to photograph but determined they are not stored where I thought they were.
But I have old layout pictures that show the heavyweights. No luck, too many disorganized prints. Here is the only one I found, it just shows the tops of the red and green cars back on yard tracks 5 and 6.
While looking I came across this picture of 4 PRR Ore Dump cars that I completely forgot about on one of my layouts. Must have bought them from Pa Heritage Models at the same time as the PRR hopper pulling them. One more thing to go look for!


----------



## cramden

Nice looking yard full of Flyers. The ore cars are different, I've not seen them before. My red heavyweights all have brass couplers except the one 652 that has the block lettering. Its hard to see from the picture but the rear coupler is missing on the 654 observation car. Something else to fix at some point.


----------



## AmFlyer

The red 653 looks like a black weight. I noticed the missing coupler on the 654, I have seen people intentionally remove them.
Pa Heritage made some interesting items and did a lot of repaints into PRR colors and lettering. They also made S gauge power trucks for the Corgi street cars. I am glad I purchased all these items while they were available.


----------



## cramden

I remember the power trucks for the Corgi street cars. I almost bought one but didn't think the power trucks were still available so I passed. The 653 has brass weights, but I confess they're in need of a little cleaning. Here's the 322AC from the red set. I thought I might try to touch up the marks on the tender lettering but decided to leave it as is.


----------



## AmFlyer

I agree, leave the tender as it is. That is an interesting Hudson. According to all my references the 322AC was first used in 1949. The tender appears to be 1948 with the brass weight unless someone changed it. 
I have been looking at the stanchions on my big 4K monitor but cannot tell if they are thin or thick. Thick would be 1948 or 1949, thin would be 1950 or 1951. If one engine of each is side by side the stanchion difference is quite obvious.
I also wonder if it was rewired. The wire insulation is not fabric as used on the 1948-1951 Hudsons. If this is factory original it is an undocumented variation.
In any event it is a great engine to pull the HW passenger set. The white insulators look perfect.


----------



## cramden

I also thought the AC was a 1949 and later number. The AFL tender lettering is right for a 48 model. I forgot to mention the wiring had been replaced at some point, but not by me. I checked the stanchions, they appear to be thin, so I flipped the engine upside down and the date stamp is May of 1950. So it seems the tender was swapped at some point in its life, why, I can't answer that, but it shows what can happen to engines over time and when there's no box or set box. So, no undocumented variation, just a Frankenstein Hudson.


----------



## AmFlyer

I was 51% certain they were thin but the angle of the picture made them hard to see. That is the same date as my original 322AC.


----------



## cramden

All in all, still a decent Hudson to put at the head of the Heavyweights. I guess I could always change the tender shell to an A.F. and coupler and make it a true 1950, but it's not a priority and it still wouldn't be all original.


----------



## AmFlyer

One final item for today. While photographing the service stations on my layout I noticed the Gilbert UP hopper in the freight yard.
Here it is, the 24216 UP hopper for those who like hoppers.
Behind it is a Legacy UP Challenger. Behind that is a PRR RS-11 by American Models.


----------



## cramden

Nice one Tom, That's another 5 digit I don't have.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have been searching, but not too diligently, through my stored collection to find all my link coupler HW passenger cars. So far no luck, they are not where I thought I put them. However I did find a number of items to post over the next week that hopefully will be of interest
As a supposed link coupler collector/operator I now think I have more knuckle coupler items than link. If I add in all the modern Lionel AF, American Models, MTH and SHS cars on my layout then I know that is so.
For today here is a car I always liked, the NH boxcar. This is the 5 digit version, the 24036. The tag on the left wheel set is on to remind me how much I paid for it! Behind it to the right is a NYC boxcar I posted previously. To the left is a Legacy ES44ac NYC Lightning Stripe diesel.


----------



## mopac

Nice cars Tom. I like hoppers and have a few. I like coal loads in them though.
That UP hopper is on the list. The box car is really nice. I don't have that one either.
Someday I hope to run a train with all coal hoppers. I kinda like unit trains.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I like coal loads in the hoppers as well but I am not going to scratch the paint on this car putting in an aftermarket coal load.
I do have a unit train on the layout of hoppers full of coal. When I get home on Monday afternoon I will take a picture and post it. It is one of my favorite consists to run.


----------



## cramden

Nice 24036, Doesn't looked like it was ever used. I have found a couple of my purchases with the little sales sticker still on the bottom from vendors, the tagged ones I usually remove. Some of the items I don't worry about what I paid for, and then there are items I wish I could forget what they cost when I bought them! I also went with 3 digit knuckle couplers at the beginning, but I have little self control and might have as many linkers as knuckle items. I have managed to stay away from 5 digit items, but even they have found a way home.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Mopac, I like coal loads in the hoppers as well but I am not going to scratch the paint on this car putting in an aftermarket coal load.
> I do have a unit train on the layout of hoppers full of coal. When I get home on Monday afternoon I will take a picture and post it. It is one of my favorite consists to run.


Nice hopper Tom. I use a trick to keep from scratching the insides of some of my nicer hoppers. I take a piece of foam, cut it to size, paint it black, and thick enough to touch the slopping inside ends. I cut the top in a slight wavey fashion then glue "coal" to the top and insert it into the hopper. No scratches and nobody knows that the hopper isn't really full of coal. Mostly foam. In fact, that is how all my hoppers are filled. Saves a lot of "coal/money". I sometimes use black fish tank rock. Since it is usually bright black, I spray the tops with flat black for some and others just leave it the way it comes. I remember as a kid when the GM&O would park a string of coal hoppers, the coal wasn't all the same color or shade, some dull, some oily bright. 
I have 24 hoppers. Some are worked hard layout condition hoppers, others are show case hoppers including 3 shades of gray variations of the 640 and 4 632 LNE variations of the red circle side insignia, and one dark gray variant as listed on the "Gilbert Gallery" site. In fact, he says there are 14 variations listed in Greenberg's!! The difference is in the trucks, and couplers and the shades of gray he says. I don't plan on looking for all those or want to. Too many detail variations for my mind to store and remember. 
I posted a picture of those 640's a while back after flyernut mentioned them in a post. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Today we have a 634 floodlight car. It has the yellow light housing with a white plastic base. The coupler is a 1947 thick shank and no weights.
In the background, left to right, are a Lionel AF PRR boxcar, Gilbert NYC 24065 and B&O Timesaver 980 boxcars.


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## mopac

Looks nice Tom. I do not have a floodlight car. Maybe someday.


----------



## cramden

Great looking 634 Tom, you don't see the white framed ones often and the yellow paint is as good as you can hope to find. I have the 1948 634 with the die-cast frame I posted on here before.


----------



## AmFlyer

My original 634 from 1950 is the yellow housing with the gray diecast frame.


----------



## AmFlyer

Pictures of 740 handcars have already been posted here but I decided to post another one from my collection. This one has the decal variation with the stripes, the handcar is in LN condition. However what I think makes this one more interesting is the OB. It is in excellent condition with all the inserts. No I did not post one picture upside down. That is intentional to make it easier to read the handwritten sale price on the sticker. The original price was $7.49, but is was marked down to $1.98! If only I had been there in the mid 50’s to get a few at that price!


----------



## alaft61ri

Picked op these 3 the other day the middle one was paint had know i dea what it was so i put it under warm water and the paint came off and this what it is not bad for 40. Bucks


----------



## AmFlyer

Those are nice cars for $40. Great find!


----------



## AmFlyer

A few days ago I promised to post pictures of the coal hopper unit train I run on the layout. Here they are. 
The 3 hoppers at the end of the train are original Gilbert, a 940 Wabash, an 801 B&O and a 921 CB&Q. The rest are current production Lionel Flyer 3 bay hoppers. The engine is an Erie Berkshire converted to TMCC/Railsounds. The caboose is a Lionel Flyer Erie.


----------



## flyernut

Nice.. I have a O scale Allegheny and a O scale Lionel Big Boy that I have set up to pull Reading, Virginia, Cats Paw, and NYC hopper cars with the coal loads.


----------



## cramden

Great looking 740 Tom. Don't we all wish that we could have bought a few things back then. Nice looking coal train. It has room to stretch its legs without chasing its tail.


----------



## AmFlyer

I photographed the coal drag running on Line 1 which is 275' long, no chasing tails on it.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice looking coal unit train Tom. That picture of the country side hills looks very nice too. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

I mentioned a few days ago that I had some LNE 632's with variations so I thought I better post some pictures. They were all bought from the same vendor at a show who had several more. He apparently didn't notice the differences because he never said anything. Before I went I had just looked through those cars in my Gilbert Gallery listings so I knew about some of the more obvious variations. I usually run them in a coal hopper unit train similar to what Tom showed. The previous owner, the vendor, converted them from linkers to knuckles but I didn't care since I bought them for next to nothing. $5 a piece. The top one is missing lower steps. Don't care since they are layout runners. 
Aside from the insignia differences, the top one is a darker gray. The insignia differences are listed as dark red, top, regular size, lighter red, middle, regular size, and the bottom one which has a smaller red center than the rest. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Flood car and crane


----------



## yd328

AmFlyer said:


> Pictures of 740 handcars have already been posted here but I decided to post another one from my collection. This one has the decal variation with the stripes, the handcar is in LN condition. However what I think makes this one more interesting is the OB. It is in excellent condition with all the inserts. No I did not post one picture upside down. That is intentional to make it easier to read the handwritten sale price on the sticker. The original price was $7.49, but is was marked down to $1.98! If only I had been there in the mid 50’s to get a few at that price!
> 
> View attachment 514242
> 
> 
> View attachment 514244
> 
> 
> View attachment 514246


Nice handcar. I have that on my wish list. Now to find one for that price.

Gary


----------



## mopac

Nice cars guys. Nice coal drag Tom. Looks good.


----------



## AmFlyer

I am not sure I would have noticed those insignia variations on a sellers table. Definitely not on an EBAY listing. I looked at my inventory, have six 632's. Two are painted, four are plastic. No indications on the inventory notes about the red dots so I might or might not have some. One more thing to research in the future.
Nice 946 Erie Floodlight. I see far fewer of those than the 646 link coupler version.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom go to the Gilbert Gallery. There you will find all kinds of information on these and other hoppers. 
http//thegilbertgallery.org or another source I have found useful is 
www.geocities.com/the upstairstrain/Hoppers_Cars.html
Like I said, I would never have known about the red insignias except for having just looked through my binder full of pictures of all AF rolling stock before going to a train show. I was going to find hoppers so I could make up a decent looking coal unit train and ran across this vendor. I do have other LNE 632's but not in great shape so they are used in coal drags or are scene pieces. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Here are variations of the 640 hoppers. Notice the one on the left with the marbling in the gray paint. I posted these previously when flyernut and I were talking about these cars. He had just found the white/cream colored one as I recall. 

Kenny


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## cramden

Nice 946, that was the first car I bought when my renewed interest in Flyer began back in the eighties. Growing up, my friend had a Lionel floodlight car and I thought that was the coolest car going around the track with the lights out and the searchlight lighting up the layout. That's a lot of hoppers, I see that I've fallen behind in the 632 department. Here's my one and only. Gray plastic from 1948.


----------



## mopac

Hoppers are one of my favorite cars. Nice one cramden.
I have a few 640s. Not many variations.


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## cramden

Thanks, here's a hopper loaded with stone, a 24225 Santa Fe that's painted red vs. plastic. This is part of the Arrow set I posted a while back.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

My new AF 471 to go with the 470. It looks good except for a small finger nail size chip of chrome on the other side. I have yet tried to run it, but we will see...


----------



## cramden

Looks to be in great shape for chrome plated Fred. Shouldn't have any problems with it, it's a dummy unit with an Air Chime Whistle, so no motors.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

cramden said:


> Looks to be in great shape for chrome plated Fred. Shouldn't have any problems with it, it's a dummy unit with an Air Chime Whistle, so no motors.


Thanks! From what I have heard, Air Chime Whistles don't really sound too good. I am wondering if I should invest in a controller and button.


----------



## cramden

They don't sound all that bad in a diesel, since it's more of a horn noise than a whistle.


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## mopac

Looks nice Broke. I like it. I bought me something today. I guess they are called
Frontier cars. The yellow passenger coaches. They usually sell for at least 18.00 each
in good condition. I got 3 #20s in great condition for 37.00. No rubs, no scratches.
Working couplers. I have been watching them. I know they go behind a frontier loco,
mine will go behind an atlantic. I will show pics when I get them.


----------



## AmFlyer

Fred, make sure you look at the wiring instructions for the diesel horn controller before you commit. All the power to the track has to go through the controller. Alternatively an isolated block can be set up with fiber pins in the track for a short section where the horn will work. Nice B unit.
Cramden, the 24225 is in great condition, I like how the bright red makes it stand out.
On the 632 hoppers I still struggle to see true variations in the red dots other than one is present or not. Looking at the variations I have, and there are different sizes and different color intensity, they appear to me to be QC issues in the plant rather than different paint colors or different size stamp masks. But that is only my opinion.


----------



## mopac

Broke, just get you a billboard with horn and you can blow it anytime you want.
Might sound better also.


----------



## AmFlyer

I use a 561 Diesel billboard horn. Its a matter of opinion if it sounds better. It is a lot easier to set up.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Broke, just get you a billboard with horn and you can blow it anytime you want.
> Might sound better also.


I have one. One for diesel and one for steamers. I don't think that I will do the vibrator approach.


----------



## AmFlyer

One more 632 picture. This is one on the layout, it is 1948 with brass coupler weights. I believe the one Cramden posted is a darker gray plastic than this one. This appears to me as the “normal” gray color with the “normal” red dots. The difference in the two pictures is the lighting, that is why these cars need to be side by side to discern the differences, other than the black ones or the white ones.


----------



## cramden

I wasn't sure about mine being a darker gray plastic because I didn't have another one to compare it with. Yours is a great example. I'm glad I didn't get involved with variations all that much on any item, it can get expensive.


----------



## AFGP9

Concerning the 632 discussion, unless you have a number of these cars sitting end to end, it is hard to tell the difference in the shades of gray and the red center in the insignia. My photo of the 3 doesn't really show the red dot too clearly in the insignia but there is definitely a difference in the size and color of them. I can only go by what I have but there are two shades of gray. I have more than the 3 I pictured. They were the best of what I have. Maybe I should have taken the picture in my photo both for better lighting. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Harpers


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I agree with you that there are at least 2 different gray plastic colors used to make 632's. My only point on the plastic was that to be sure which car is which color they need to be photographed together just as you did. Trying to compare your picture to mine is risky because of the variations in lighting between different photographs.
Regarding the red dots, I feel the variations were random with production runs rather than actual changes as the plastic color was.


----------



## flyernut

My turn.. here's a few of my K-5's, including a new to me 310, the rest are 312's, both plain Jane's














and a few 312AC's.. There's still a few more but their're AWOL.


----------



## flyernut

A few of my Hudson's..1 with SIT with a knuckle coupler. If you notice, there are several tenders with different graphics.. There's also one waiting for surgery.


----------



## flyernut

This one is waiting for the surgery I spoke off.


----------



## flyernut

My 3 Northerns; 332AC, K335, and a large motor 336. I have all the cars that belong to each set..


----------



## flyernut

More 302's just relaxing, along with a 360.


----------



## flyernut

290's, 283's, 293's, 287's, 282's, more 302's, and whatever else..


----------



## flyernut

Bear in mind, all those large plastic tubs hold more engines, sets, my aluminum passenger cars, my Royal Blue set, Silver Streak, and my new Circus engine, not counting what's on the lay-out.. I can't keep up with them all, as I like to grab one and run it, but it has to run perfectly, or I muck with it, just to put it back in storage. I hope I have the time to go through all of them before I pass away. I want to make sure my kids and grand-kids don't have to mess around with something that's not running.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a lot of engines! What I think is so nice about it is that all these engines of Flyernut have been repaired and maintained so that as 65 year olds the are as good as when they were new.


----------



## mopac

flyernut, you are one sick puppy. Nice collection. You must buy smoke fluid by
the gallon.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> That is a lot of engines! What I think is so nice about it is that all these engines of Flyernut have been repaired and maintained so that as 65 year olds the are as good as when they were new.


I try my best Tom.. I just don't have the time to keep them all in the pink, and truth-fully, I don't know where the heck they all are,lol!


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> flyernut, you are one sick puppy. Nice collection. You must buy smoke fluid by
> the gallon.


I have a large bottle of original scent, about a quart, and around 7 different scents for the chief bill payer so she can't complain about the stink,lol.


----------



## mopac

Has anyone here tried Frog Juice. It is the fluid used in smoke machines like a
rock band would use. I have heard it works in model trains. You can buy a gallon
of it on ebay. Price is about what a small bottle of smoke fluid costs. I might try
it some day. Not sure why it is named frog juice.


----------



## cramden

flyernut said:


> Bear in mind, all those large plastic tubs hold more engines, sets, my aluminum passenger cars, my Royal Blue set, Silver Streak, and my new Circus engine, not counting what's on the lay-out.. I can't keep up with them all, as I like to grab one and run it, but it has to run perfectly, or I muck with it, just to put it back in storage. I hope I have the time to go through all of them before I pass away. I want to make sure my kids and grand-kids don't have to mess around with something that's not running.


Hope you have lots of kids and grand kids flyernut, that's a lot of inventory. If not, there's going to be a whole lot of lucky kids that will someday get to enjoy the fruits of your labor. The best part is that when they put them on the track and turn on the power, they won't have to figure out what's wrong, instead they'll have a positive experience and just might become hooked on the simple joy of running Flyers.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today we have some NH 650 and 651 passenger cars. These are early versions in unpainted plastic with die cast chassis. The 650’s are illuminated One 650 and the 651 have brass coupler weights, 1948 and the other 650 has black weights.


----------



## flyernut

Tom, I have many of those red passenger cars, along with a ton of the green ones, not to mention the chrome passenger cars for my Silver Streak... I have too many trains...


----------



## cramden

Great looking New Havens Tom. I have those but with black weights and the die cast frames. I did pick up another one with brass weights, but the plastic is just a shade different. I have the green ones also and the maroon unlighted ones. They look good behind any steamer and don't overwhelm a smaller layout. I can see I have to get some more pictures up.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have more New Haven passenger car pictures to post tomorrow. this is all stuff I found while looking for my still MIA red heavyweights.
Flyernut, be careful what you say, there is no such thing as too many trains or too much horsepower.


----------



## cramden

Posted my Santa Fe hopper recently, here's the boxcar from the Arrow set. A L&N 24066 that I think was only found in this set and not available for separate sale.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have one , no OB. It might be the only 5 digit boxcar I have w/o an OB which means I never saw one with an OB. That suggests if any were made for separate sale there were very, very few.


----------



## cramden

I've never seen one for sale with the box at shows or on ebay. I know that it wasn't shown in the catalogues except in the Arrow set. Most new cars were prominently featured when they came out, Strange that this wasn't offered for separate sale.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Looks nice Broke. I like it. I bought me something today. I guess they are called
> Frontier cars. The yellow passenger coaches. They usually sell for at least 18.00 each
> in good condition. I got 3 #20s in great condition for 37.00. No rubs, no scratches.
> Working couplers. I have been watching them. I know they go behind a frontier loco,
> mine will go behind an atlantic. I will show pics when I get them.


Mopac I might be a little late to the game this week but I too have some of those cars which originally came in the Frontiersman sets in 1959 and 1960. The letters "F. Y. & P .R. R." stands for "Fifty Years of Progress in Railroading". Those are another thing where there are so many versions such as yellow painted and yellow plastic and the position of the letters either on the sides near each end or not. I have done a lot of research on these cars and but have only bought 3 coaches and the box car that goes with it which has a "50 Years" insignia on it. You can find all the variations in the Gilbert Gallery and what to look for when buying. 
I put mine behind a 302 when running on my layout. Looks just fine. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

flyernut said:


> My turn.. here's a few of my K-5's, including a new to me 310, the rest are 312's, both plain Jane's
> View attachment 514490
> 
> 
> View attachment 514492
> and a few 312AC's.. There's still a few more but their're AWOL.


Flyernut, once again I am late to the game this week in commenting. You have an impressive collection there, especially the Hudsons, my favorite engine. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

cramden said:


> Posted my Santa Fe hopper recently, here's the boxcar from the Arrow set. A L&N 24066 that I think was only found in this set and not available for separate sale.
> View attachment 514612


Cramden that is a nice looking 24066 you got there. I once saw a L&N 24066, no box since it was from that set, at a train show out east when I went to Gettysburg. When I looked at the wheels I could see it had no run time on any track and the seller said as much. There was only one thing that kept me from buying it.....the $525 asking price! I suspect the seller really didn't want to sell it. Just more of a chance to show it off. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

650 new haven


----------



## mopac

Nice passenger cars. I need to get some. From that photo I see you have a very
nice collection of Gilbert trains.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yesterday I posted red unpainted NH passenger cars. Today we have the other end of the spectrum with the red painted 655’s. I am not discriminating against the green cars, I just did not happen to find the green ones in the storage crates I looked in. These red painted cars have the sheet metal chassis with no steps or underbody detail. The 655 coaches are also not illuminated. Of note, one of the 655’s has 3 spring trucks, the others have 2 spring trucks.
After taking these pictures I noticed I accidentally had 3 tank cars in one of the pictures. Lets take a look at those as well. The car on the right is a silver Shell. Gilbert made three colors of Shell tank cars, the orange, then black and finally silver. Look at the Gulf car on the left, it has the same number, 625 as the Shell car. But the reporting marks are also Shell, SEPX8681. Seems all Gilbert did was change the decal. The Gulf car in the middle is a later production that is numbered 625G and the reporting marks were also changed to Gulf, GRCX5016.


----------



## cramden

Nice group of cars Tom. Never ran across the 625 Gulf with the Shell reporting marks, nice find. Now I'm confused with the colors, I've always thought these were maroon painted cars, the red painted 650's are a much brighter red color. Greenberg calls these red but they list a 651 baggage car from 1953 as maroon. The colors are the same as the red ones. To further confuse me, the 900 series HW's are called maroon, but the color is the same as the 655 and the 652 A.F.L. coach. Is Greenberg incorrect or am I really confused? It's funny that one of my 655 cars is a 2 spring and the other is a 3 spring like you have. Anyway, here is my red plastic 650 N.H's with the 651. The first one is a shade different, you might not be able to tell from the picture.






































I'll get pics up shortly of my "Maroon" set.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, the issue is my semantics. I refer to all the passenger cars as red or green. The first set of 650's I posted are red unpainted plastic. The set of 655's today are a darker red painted, some might call them maroon. That is likely what the Guides call them. I will post tomorrows picture today to show more paint.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are two more pictures today, I was going to post them tomorrow. The 655’s are the same maroon painted cars as above. The 652 Pikes Peak is the maroon version of the red Pikes Peak. Note the red paint is The identical maroon color on the 655 as on the 652. I have other Pikes Peak 652’s, one is a very cherry red color. When and if I find them I will post a picture.
Cramden, I like those 650’s with the D/C chassis. The steps and underbody detail really add to the appearance of the cars. Is the one on the right a maroon unpainted plastic or is it painted?


----------



## cramden

The one 650 on the right in this picture is red plastic and is the only 1948 one of my three. It's just not as vibrant a color as the other two.


----------



## cramden

Here's my maroon 651, 655's, and 652. I have another 651 and 652, but they're packed somewhere.






























My two 655's had the plastic windows rolled up but I found that if you take them apart and soak the rolled up plastic in hot tap water they will flatten back out. Then by rolling them up the opposite way, you can put them back in the car, good as new.


----------



## AmFlyer

I see the 3 springs on the 655. Looks like your maroon Pikes Peak is also a match for the maroon 655's.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

AmFlyer said:


> I see the 3 springs on the 655. Looks like your maroon Pikes Peak is also a match for the maroon 655's.


Tom, please help an old, blind man out. I can't see well enough to see 3 springs. Please explain. Thanks!


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden posted two 655 pictures immediately above. The top picture has standard link coupler trucks with two vertical springs stamped between the journal boxes. The 655 immediately below it has 3 vertical springs stamped between the journal boxes and the spacing between the axles is wider. These 3 spring trucks were developed partly to stop the engine/tender stalling when going across the 90 deg crossings but primarily to have enough space to fit a sliding pickup shoe on the 295 tender trucks.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

AmFlyer said:


> Cramden posted two 655 pictures immediately above. The top picture has standard link coupler trucks with two vertical springs stamped between the journal boxes. The 655 immediately below it has 3 vertical springs stamped between the journal boxes and the spacing between the axles is wider. These 3 spring trucks were developed partly to stop the engine/tender stalling when going across the 90 deg crossings but primarily to have enough space to fit a sliding pickup shoe on the 295 tender trucks.


Thanks for the explanation. I will have to pull out some of my cars in order to see as I can't tell well enough in the photos. All I see is a black box on the truck. But, I see a difference in the height, I think.:laugh: Please excuse my affirmatives.:smilie_auslachen:


----------



## cramden

I'll try to post my green 650's and 651 tomorrow. Tom or anyone, do you know what kind of polish can be used on the unpainted plastic? I remember reading about being able to polish them to remove scratches in the plastic but I can't recall what it was. My green ones have some marks on them and was going to see if I could clean them up, but don't want to use something that might make them worse.


----------



## AmFlyer

The 3 spring trucks were required for the 1951 295 and the 1952 285. They began to appear on rolling stock but they serve no purpose there. Here is a closeup of one.


----------



## AmFlyer

And here is the picture!


----------



## AmFlyer

A 2 spring for comparison.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, you can use Meguiar's cleaner wax on the car roofs. If that is not quite good then use the Step 1 swirl remover followed by the cleaner wax. Do not go anywhere near the paint or lettering. Problem with using it on the sides is the part that was polished will be visible compared to the part by the lettering that was not.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

AmFlyer said:


> A 2 spring for comparison.
> 
> View attachment 514794


That really helps! Thanks! I was trying to imagine the spring in a horizontal position.:thumbsup:


----------



## AmFlyer

If you buy Gilbert standard 2 bay hoppers make sure they do not have 3 spring trucks. If they do the car will not run correctly, as soon as it enters a curve the wheel will bind on the underside of the hopper. The 3 spring truck is most commonly found on the 640 Wabash as far as hoppers go.
Looking at the two pictures I posted the 633 trucks were stamped with a fresh die, the springs are well defined. Note on the two springs the coils are high on the outside and slope to the center. The 3 spring 622 was stamped with a worn die, the spring coils are not well defined. Note on the 3 springs the right hand side of all the coils is high so they all slope right to left.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Cramden, you can use Meguiar's cleaner wax on the car roofs. If that is not quite good then use the Step 1 swirl remover followed by the cleaner wax. Do not go anywhere near the paint or lettering. Problem with using it on the sides is the part that was polished will be visible compared to the part by the lettering that was not.


Thanks Tom. Maybe I'll leave them alone. It was so long ago when I bought these that I might have been less fussy about them, or it was my before glasses days, and couldn't see what the heck I was buying! The worst of the bunch is the 651 baggage car and that has marks all over both sides. That one would be the one to experiment on if I decide to try it.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom and cramden you guys got some very nice passenger cars there. Makes me not want to post my green 950 series cars since they are runners on the layout and don't look as nice as yours. On the other hand mine suit me fine on the layout behind a 302 or 312. 
Regarding what to use on the tops of those cars, I have used automotive plastic headlight scratch remover and polisher on mine. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Good idea Kenny. I have not tried the headlight treatment products.


----------



## AFGP9

Okay I guess I will post my green passenger cars. Not as nice as Tom and cramden's but then they do fit into the theme of my layout which is the look of daily use rolling stock. Always looking for others at shows. Maybe some day I will find others. Like everybody else I got the "wants". 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Good idea Kenny. I have not tried the headlight treatment products.


Thanks Tom. As you said though, use that only on the tops and stay away from any lettering. It takes out most any surface scratches. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Cars these are some of mine


----------



## flyernut

And if ya'll will notice, there are also different shades of red plastic cars.


----------



## mopac

Nice passenger cars, red and green. None here yet, but I am watching.
I got my Frontier passenger cars, 3 of them, in the mail yesterday. They
are as nice as seller described. Happy with them, and will post pics when I get a chance.
They are actually pretty nice cars. No lights but that is fine with me.


----------



## AFGP9

I kinda liked the fact that those cars are not lighted considering the era they represent. I have been thinking of a way to put those flickering bulbs into those cars to represent gas lighting like they could have had back then. Can't seem to find a small enough bulb to fit a Flyer sockets. This time of year with all the Christmas stuff out I might find some. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

As a change of pace, I thought I would post these pictures for my photo of the day contribution. The control panels are a back up to my TMCC Cab 1 handheld controller or when I want to do things the old fashion way. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Wow! Lots or nice pictures here this morning.
Kenny, you say the Gilbert controls are a backup to the TMCC Cab1 handheld. Does that mean you are using ASC2's controlled from the Cab1 to operate the uncouplers and turnouts? If so then the color bulb lit in the turnout controller will not always match the position of the points. The wiring looks really good.


----------



## flyernut

Nice!!!


----------



## cramden

AFGP9 said:


> Thanks Tom. As you said though, use that only on the tops and stay away from any lettering. It takes out most any surface scratches.
> 
> Kenny


Thanks Kenny, another good suggestion. I still don't know if I'll try to clean them, but I'll post results if I do.


----------



## cramden

Lots of pictures to look at, thanks for all the posts guys. Kenny, the neatness with your wiring embarrasses me. I usually employ the Russian "Goodenuff" approach, which generally leads to problems. Here is my green New Haven 650 coaches and the 651 baggage car. You can see the scratches along the side, not sure what caused that, but looks like someone was drawing along the length of it .


----------



## AmFlyer

Now I wish I had found my green cars as well. It is hard to tell from a picture but some of those marks do not look like scratches. There is one that appears to go under a letter but there is no apparent damage to the lettering. Could something be happening to the surface finish of the plastic?


----------



## mopac

Here are my new to me Frontier cars. Being pulled by my new
to me 293 from flyernut.


















Got these for 12.33 each plus 9 something shipping.
They are in very nice condition. I like them. All are #20 coach cars.
We had snow on the ground but most melted today. Good.


----------



## cramden

I'm not sure, but I think when I get time, I'll wipe one down with Dawn and warm water with an old T-shirt and see how it looks. I'll stay away from the lettering as much as possible and see.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, those are 3 nice cars, I cannot believe the price. 
Early for snow there in St Louis. Its 75 and sunny here in San Diego at the water, warmer inland. Top is down on the convertible, but I guess you really do not want to hear that.


----------



## mopac

Not fond of winters in St Louis. Gets so dreary looking. Not much sun.
Look at my pics. Another dreary day. Not only an early snow, it has
got down to 12 degrees. 40 something today. Feels warm after 12 degrees.

I thought the price for the cars was good.


----------



## cramden

Nice mopac. Now you need to get the 30 baggage and the 40 combine so you'll have all of them. Then maybe the Franklin engine.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice cars good price


----------



## alaft61ri

Oh by the way it is nice and dark 27 degrees


----------



## AmFlyer

I did find one green heavyweight coach. It is a 652 green Pikes Peak, made in 1953. The Green Pikes Peak is the second most rare link coupler passenger car, the most rare is the 503 satin silver painted plastic observation. This example is new condition, never run, in its OB. The OB is the plain cardboard box that occasionally shows up. This plain box is interesting because it has what I believe are the box ink color registrations on the tip of the end flap. I have several of these plain OB’s and this is the only one with the blue and yellow ink setup marks on it.


----------



## mopac

Extremely nice 652 Tom. Hard to find them like that.


----------



## alaft61ri

Picked up 934 light car 20. And the other one i had it with the set my moms cousin gave to me when i was a kid .


----------



## mopac

Nice search light cars. I have none of those. Lots of cars I do not have.
I have many common runners. Picked up 6 more on 2 ebay auctions
yesterday. I really do not need anymore common runners, but I could
not pass on them. I am a sucker for a good deal. The 6 cars cost me
10.50 and 10.50 for shipping. Both auctions by same seller and he
combined shipping at 10.50. These cars are nice. Little use. All steps
and brake wheels. They either never got dirty or they have been cleaned and
polished. Here is what I got:
1 630 caboose - Lighted (works) and has Reading on side, my other one is American Flyer on side
1 638 caboose
1 631 T&P gondola
1 642 boxcar red
1 642 boxcar tuscan
I need to check what the 6th car is. Be right back.
1 632 LNE hopper

All are nice with link couplers. 21.00 shipped for 6 nice cars is a deal. 3.50 each shipped. Had to go.


----------



## cramden

Wow, that's a great car to have. The box is very interesting, never saw one with that on it. Maybe some sort of error at the time of printing. That's a two for... a great car and an unusual box that came with it.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> Nice search light cars. I have none of those. Lots of cars I do not have.
> I have many common runners. Picked up 6 more on 2 ebay auctions
> yesterday. I really do not need anymore common runners, but I could
> not pass on them. I am a sucker for a good deal. The 6 cars cost me
> 10.50 and 10.50 for shipping. Both auctions by same seller and he
> combined shipping at 10.50. These cars are nice. Little use. All steps
> and brake wheels. They either never got dirty or they have been cleaned and
> polished. Here is what I got:
> 1 630 caboose - Lighted (works) and has Reading on side, my other one is American Flyer on side
> 1 638 caboose
> 1 631 T&P gondola
> 1 642 boxcar red
> 1 642 boxcar tuscan
> I need to check what the 6th car is. Be right back.
> 1 632 LNE hopper
> 
> All are nice with link couplers. 21.00 shipped for 6 nice cars is a deal. 3.50 each shipped. Had to go.


Great prices on all of those cars mopac. Get some pics. up if you can.

Nice looking floodlight cars, thanks for posting them.


----------



## AmFlyer

I always liked the tuscan 934. When we were kids my cousin had the 934, I had (and still have) a 634. Good find Mopac.


----------



## cramden

So, after thinking about my 651 baggage car and the numerous cosmetic issues, I thought I would try to clean it up with some Dawn and water. I can't believe what a dummy I can be. Looking at the car as I was taking it apart, I realized it's a green painted car over a cream plastic body. Greenberg's lists this type on a sheet metal frame, not with a die-cast frame. I don't know if this was switched at some point, but I'm glad I didn't try any plastic polish. I did wash it but didn't get any noticeable difference so I''ll leave well enough alone. Here is a couple of pictures of the body off the frame. The 3- 650's are all green plastic. Probably just leave them all alone.


----------



## AmFlyer

No comment on any powers of observation. In the first picture from yesterday the difference in sheen of the green between the 650 and 651 cars is apparent. that is one of the reasons I thought something was happening with the green plastic over time. The fact that it is green paint explains a lot. As far as the chassis there could be a few original green painted 651's with diecast chassis. Since there are no steps it would be easy to miss when walking through a train show.


----------



## cramden

It didn't appear to me that the chassis had been switched, but it could have been done long ago. The sheen on the top of the car looks about the same as the plastic ones. That's what I get for thinking because of the die-cast shell it was a plastic one. Still learning as always.


----------



## alaft61ri

Logger


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice looking log loader and water tank. The stockyard just barely visible is the much less common version with the 4 rail fence.


----------



## Mikeh49

Continuing the theme of green passenger cars, here's my 303 heading up a mini-express: Flyonel REA express reefer, 951 and 650.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yesterday I posted a 1953 652 with the unusual plain cardboard OB. Today I thought I would skip ahead to an accessory item because of the OB. This is a 26756 bumper. It is variation III of a total of IV variations, not including color. Variation III has the multiple bend brass fingers that clip to the track. This was first made in 1961 so the bumper could clip to either the original track or to PikeMaster track. The OB is plain cardboard rather than red and white printed, it shows these plain boxes appeared once in a while into the 1960’s.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice passenger train. I have that REA car sitting on my layout. When I find the green 650's I need to see if the green color matches as well as yours does.


----------



## Mikeh49

I have a thing for express reefers after seeing them on the Western Star when I was a kid. I'm pretty sure both the AF cars are green plastic. The die cast chassis with steps and underbody boxes really makes these New Haven cars. The prototypes were also interesting, see Osgood-Bradley. They were advanced for the 30's.


----------



## AmFlyer

The 650 coach is for sure unpainted plastic. The 951 REA looks like it could be painted. I think I see some very small chips along the edges with white showing, or it could be my imagination.
I have a number of the REA 1/64 scale trucks made by AHL on my layout as well, I like the REA items.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is one of the AHL REA trucks at a freight dock on the layout.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The 650 coach is for sure unpainted plastic. The 951 REA looks like it could be painted. I think I see some very small chips along the edges with white showing, or it could be my imagination.
> I have a number of the REA 1/64 scale trucks made by AHL on my layout as well, I like the REA items.


I'm with you Tom on things REA. Somewhere I have a brand new in the box REA freight car. I forget if it is a box car or a reefer. I only have one REA truck. I have always liked anything REA which is why I bought that 951 REA baggage car pictured first before buying any passenger coaches. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

asidlikerjr you have some nice looking accessories there. Like Tom I too noticed the hard to find 4 rail 771 stockyard in the background. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Wow! Lots or nice pictures here this morning.
> Kenny, you say the Gilbert controls are a backup to the TMCC Cab1 handheld. Does that mean you are using ASC2's controlled from the Cab1 to operate the uncouplers and turnouts? If so then the color bulb lit in the turnout controller will not always match the position of the points. The wiring looks really good.


Tom sorry to be getting back to you on that ASC2 question. Been gone all weekend. Yes that is what I have. 2 in fact. And yes you are correct about the lit color bulb in the controller not always matching the position of the switch points. Usually if there is any yard work being done I will use the AF controllers and the uncouplers since I am right there. The Cab1 is more for single switches out on the layout that are here and there. Saves walking.
When I first put the TMCC into operation, I didn't know or realize the mismatch. Live and learn. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

flyernut said:


> Nice!!!


Flyernut, coming from you that is high praise! Thanks! 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Nice search light cars. I have none of those. Lots of cars I do not have.
> I have many common runners. Picked up 6 more on 2 ebay auctions
> yesterday. I really do not need anymore common runners, but I could
> not pass on them. I am a sucker for a good deal. The 6 cars cost me
> 10.50 and 10.50 for shipping. Both auctions by same seller and he
> combined shipping at 10.50. These cars are nice. Little use. All steps
> and brake wheels. They either never got dirty or they have been cleaned and
> polished. Here is what I got:
> 1 630 caboose - Lighted (works) and has Reading on side, my other one is American Flyer on side
> 1 638 caboose
> 1 631 T&P gondola
> 1 642 boxcar red
> 1 642 boxcar tuscan
> I need to check what the 6th car is. Be right back.
> 1 632 LNE hopper
> 
> All are nice with link couplers. 21.00 shipped for 6 nice cars is a deal. 3.50 each shipped. Had to go.


Nice assortment of cars there cramden and all for only 10.50 shipping. What a deal all around. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I did find one green heavyweight coach. It is a 652 green Pikes Peak, made in 1953. The Green Pikes Peak is the second most rare link coupler passenger car, the most rare is the 503 satin silver painted plastic observation. This example is new condition, never run, in its OB. The OB is the plain cardboard box that occasionally shows up. This plain box is interesting because it has what I believe are the box ink color registrations on the tip of the end flap. I have several of these plain OB’s and this is the only one with the blue and yellow ink setup marks on it.
> 
> View attachment 514960
> 
> 
> View attachment 514962
> 
> 
> View attachment 514964


What a great looking Pikes Peak Tom. 
I have seen those plain boxes but always thought they were some sort of a box a hobby store might have obtained and printed a number and name on the flap and not really Gilbert printed. I learn something every day I tell ya!! 

I just realized I left a bunch of answers all in a row. Oh well, I had to get caught up on comments after being gone all weekend. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Something cute


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks for the reply Kenny. You know there is a fix for those TMCC issues, right. Its just a matter of how much money and time you want to put into the layout.
After 3 years of layout operation with the ASC2's etc. the only thing I do not like is the short duration of the voltage pulse to the uncouplers. Too bad there is no way to make it longer.


----------



## AmFlyer

I see the news stand above is mostly in keeping with a green theme. Well, this is my last green item for a while. 
I think this is an interesting piece of toy train history we rarely see. It is the 5401 Electric Train re-railer. It is in new unused condition in its original box. Note instruction #1 on the back, since this is metal turning off track power is essential. I wonder how many short circuits these re-railers caused!
I bought many of these kind of NIB items because my original vision of my permanent layout room included a small segment of a Toy Train Store as the entry to the room. These would be display case items. Unfortunately the train store entry never happened. I will post some more of these items over the next weeks.


----------



## AmFlyer

​Yesterday Mikeh49 posted a picture of the REA car in a nice passenger consist. Here is a closeup of that Lionel AF refrigerator car and its OB. Note Lionel used 4 digits of the parts number, 8806, as the car number.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks for the reply Kenny. You know there is a fix for those TMCC issues, right. Its just a matter of how much money and time you want to put into the layout.
> After 3 years of layout operation with the ASC2's etc. the only thing I do not like is the short duration of the voltage pulse to the uncouplers. Too bad there is no way to make it longer.


Tom I have invested a lot of money in my TMCC system now so a little more won't hurt. As we say in Texas Hold 'em, I'm all in. I never really took the time to figure out a cure for that controller light issue. I might have the answer already bought and don't know it. When I had a local hobby shop, Jerry was a wizard with all things Lionel from TMCC to the latest Legacy up until he closed his store 3 years ago. He was an authorized Lionel Service Center dealer. I bought whatever TMCC stuff he suggested. 
If you have the solution, I'd love to hear it Tom. 

I have never seen a 5401 Electric Train re-railer or that kind of box. Nice. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Catalog 1961-62 pick up at a show september


----------



## cramden

Mikeh49 said:


> Continuing the theme of green passenger cars, here's my 303 heading up a mini-express: Flyonel REA express reefer, 951 and 650.


Nice looking train Mikeh49, the green color looks like a match. I also like the additions of the marker lights and the trailing truck on the 303. Makes it look like a better engine than the typical 303.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Yesterday I posted a 1953 652 with the unusual plain cardboard OB. Today I thought I would skip ahead to an accessory item because of the OB. This is a 26756 bumper. It is variation III of a total of IV variations, not including color. Variation III has the multiple bend brass fingers that clip to the track. This was first made in 1961 so the bumper could clip to either the original track or to PikeMaster track. The OB is plain cardboard rather than red and white printed, it shows these plain boxes appeared once in a while into the 1960’s.
> 
> View attachment 515088


Nice find Tom. I never paid too much attention to the bumpers other than trying to find a red one that wasn't an arm and a leg to buy. Never got one. I have a blue and yellow boxed one packed away. I had to go and look at the ones I had access to. I have 2 type ones and 8 type 2's. Not sure what the boxed one is until I go into the attic at some point for Christmas decor. I use to pick these up while at shows along with track trips and action car trips when I saw them for the great layout that I was sure would get built. I only have 1 plain box that a 655 A.F.L. came in, but it's not stamped so I'm not sure if it's original to the car. Interesting re-railer, I've seen pictures of that, but never came across one. Nice find again.


----------



## cramden

Here's a picture showing the difference in the type 1 and type 2 bumpers. The type 1 has a solid bar between the posts whereas the type 2 has the bar with a cut out at the bottom edge. I don't know the reason for the change. Type 1 is on the left and type 2 on the right.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, if the bumper is in a blue/yellow box it will be a type I or II. The type III was first made in 1961 so it would be a plain or red/white OB. I never bought a red one either. They were very expensive and with the repo's I found it too hard to be sure I was getting an original.
Asidlikjr, nice catalog. It is nice to collect one of each.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I do not want to hijack this thread so I will keep it brief. There are two ways to do it. First, like I did, invest in a complete Legacy and LCS control system. depending on how may items you want to control this can be $$$$.
The cheaper way is to isolate the metal levers that complete the lighting circuit path in the control boxes and separately power the bulbs from a relay whose coil is controlled by the turnout points power signal. This requires a separate power supply. It is also possible to tap into the directional power routing for the points inside the turnout to control a relay that drives the red and green lights in the control box.


----------



## AmFlyer

A few days ago I posted a picture with three tank cars, two of them Gulf. Below is a picture of another Gulf tank car that is not seen as often. This was made back in 1979 as one of the first American Flyer issues by Lionel.


----------



## cramden

Nice one, I always liked that one.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, I do not want to hijack this thread so I will keep it brief. There are two ways to do it. First, like I did, invest in a complete Legacy and LCS control system. depending on how may items you want to control this can be $$$$.
> The cheaper way is to isolate the metal levers that complete the lighting circuit path in the control boxes and separately power the bulbs from a relay whose coil is controlled by the turnout points power signal. This requires a separate power supply. It is also possible to tap into the directional power routing for the points inside the turnout to control a relay that drives the red and green lights in the control box.


Tom I know what the rest of the full Legacy system costs so no I don't want to invest THAT kind of money. When that system first came out, the ZW1 was $700 alone. As for the rest of it none of my engines are newer than 1960 so I couldn't use the full Legacy's attributes. Since I bought the TMCC simply to control track power and accessories without having to walk around so much, I'll try the directional power routing for the points inside the controller method. 
Thanks for your input. Much appreciated. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

You will need one power supply for all the turnouts plus a relay for each turnout.
There are advantages to getting the Lionel wireless interface so an iPad can be used to control all the devices. I have 3 iPads in the train room to accommodate visitors. 
I imagine you are familiar with how the LCS works, here is a screenshot of the freight yard on my layout in LCS. You can see the turnouts, and the black dashes in the track are the uncouplers. The light bulb in a socket looking things are Block Power Controllers. The small red and green dots left of T38 is a Sensor Track. I just touch one of these items on the iPad screen to operate it. There is no way I could do switching operations in this yard and roundhouse while walking around without this setup.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice Gulf tanker Tom. I have seen those but never bought one. Considering all the tankers I have I should buy one I suppose. 

I found my REA new boxcar along with another car I forgot I had. I bought it at the 2014 S Fest in Tinley Park, Il. The box number on the REA car didn't photograph well. 

Nice looking freight yard you have there. I never considered using an iPad. Now I will. Thanks again. 


Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I never saw one of those NW hoppers, nice!


----------



## AFGP9

Tom that NW hopper was available in 3 road numbers. Since my layout is themed in the transition period of years, those weren't around back then so I only bought the one. I got a photo coming up showing what was used to haul grain back then. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Green this the bumper i have and i believe this a reverse loop not sure


----------



## AmFlyer

That is the 695 Reverse Loop Relay.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today the pictures I post might be really boring but here goes anyway. A couple days ago Kenny asked about integrating conventional controls with TMCC and today asidlikjr posted a picture of the 695 reverse loop relay. Those things got me thinking which is almost never a good thing. That 695 is really just a collectors item today so I thought I would show the modern equivalent for those who want to painlessly incorporate reverse loops in their layout.
Yesterday I posted the LCS schematic of my layout’s freight yard. Below, first, is the scale drawing of it, as you can see they are close in appearance. There are 3 reverse loops in that yard. The three are the track from T36 to T20, the Turntable, and the track from T19 shown in red that leaves the diagram.
Below, second, is the 19deg crossing which needs its own reverse loop controller to set the correct polarity of the frogs. It shows a photo of the modern reverse loop controller board.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, as a more detailed answer to your question here are some additional pictures on how to wire accessories using LCS components.
First is power to always light the correct color light in the turnout control box. The control wires from the ASC2 are at the lower right, this just shows a more complicated Tortoise machine rather than the simple Gilbert turnout. Upper left, mini-panel is the now isolated red and green bulbs in the controller box. Leave out the 1K resistors with incandescent bulbs. The relay and the two power supplies are shown at the lower left. 
Also included are wiring diagrams for using the ASC2 to operate uncoupler and action cars if you want.








I hope everyone does not find this electrical stuff totally boring.


----------



## AmFlyer

One more boring picture. I realized the board shown on the crossing picture above is the DCC version of the auto reverser board. The correct AC version is below. The difference is the big heat sink that occupies on third of the board.


----------



## AmFlyer

One more real picture for today, this one might be more interesting. Looking down the track past all the turnouts the turnout position indicators are visible. The red and green LED’s lighted match the red and green turnout positions on the LCS control schematic I posted yesterday. There are a lot of Gilbert cars visible in the picture.


----------



## mopac

Tom, that is a real nice pic. Awesome layout.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Tom, that is a real nice pic. Awesome layout.


I second that.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks guys. It took decades and a reordering of priorities to have that layout. Not to mention a generous helping of good luck.


----------



## Mikeh49

I like the electronics info, not boring (to me). But, I'm an EE so that figures. Anyway, I think using modern electronics with "toy" trains is a great thing. Turnouts, signals, etc are easy, locomotives are a bigger deal. I'm not aware of a way to control traditional (American Flyer) AC universal motors with on board solid state drivers to give smooth, lower speed control. Electronic reverse units are a good start, but inexpensive speed control would be great. I guess some of the MRC or even Lionel "transformers" do this, so maybe that's all that is needed.

OK, enough of this stream of consciousness ramble. Keep the info coming, Tom.

P.S. What are your uncouplers, and how to they work?


----------



## AmFlyer

I have to also confess I hold a EE degree. The Gilbert engines run well with a ZW-L because it starts linear from zero volts and has at low voltages a “pulse” power output waveform. But even still, they run nothing like a modern Legacy engine unless you convert them to TMCC or to DCC. I have avoided doing that. But I have many AM engines converted to TMCC/Railsounds.
The uncouplers are just the MTH standard off the shelf S gauge uncouplers, they come mounted in a piece of their 5” straight track. I am including a closeup of one in the finished and detailed configuration, same for an operating car track section. Also below is the appearance prior to ballasting and detailing the track. This is the same uncoupler. The track to the left of it is one of 3 Sensor tracks on the layout. They were made by ripping the electronics out of an O gauge Sensor track and putting them in an MTH 5” straight section.
The wiring for the controls I posted above. They operate by touching their symbol in the track schematic on the iPad. Its the magic of the Layout Control System (LCS.)


----------



## AmFlyer

For anyone still looking at this here is the Single Line drawing of the LCS components and interconnecting cable to operate all the devices on the layout.


----------



## cramden

Very nice pictures again of your layout Tom. Although the wiring and control system is beyond what I would ever need, I can appreciate the thought and design that went into bringing the layout to life. I can't imagine controlling that size of a layout from one fixed position, or trying to see what's going on at the other end. I can see why you went with the iPad for running the trains.


----------



## alaft61ri

600 crossing gate before and after and ringing brother billboard with whistle sound


----------



## AmFlyer

That 600 Crossing Gate cleaned up nicely.


----------



## AmFlyer

This week two of us posted pictures of REA reefer cars from Lionel AF. Today I was running a NP Challenger with a string of freight cars and took a couple of pictures. I really like smoke, this one smokes well with a full smoke fluid reservoir. It is on Line 1 passing by the freight yard. 
I noticed a tuscan/black REA car in the picture I had forgotten about. Of course it is on the layout right in front of me. It really is amazing how much is noticed in a picture that is overlooked otherwise. Here they are. The 48806 posted earlier was cataloged in 1994 and is in the red second generation box. This one, the 48802 was cataloged in 1988 and is in the first generation white box.


----------



## cramden

Another nice looking car Tom. I should have bought that one since it's a P.R.R. car.


----------



## AmFlyer

AFAIK I have all the PRR cars including those made by Pa Heritage and Lionel. Also have the HW PRR passenger cars by Lionel and both the Budd and HW's by AM. Lionel has made a lot of PRR rolling stock in the last 5 years. AM has made some and SHS made a few.


----------



## cramden

I think that's why I didn't start buying them. Another slippery slope.


----------



## AmFlyer

Who would have thought there would be so many? Then to top it off they started to make the cars in 3 to 6 different numbers!!!


----------



## cramden

Even one of each might have been too many. Maybe I'll dip my toe in with a P.R.R. caboose. Seems like a safe move.


----------



## mopac

I am pretty sure I bought a PRR caboose for my 312 K5.
But can't find a pic of it so I will show my B&O bay window
caboose I bought for my 350 B&O Royal Blue. I like to match
caboose with the locomotive road name. So need one of those
C&NW caboose I saw a few posts back.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> One more real picture for today, this one might be more interesting. Looking down the track past all the turnouts the turnout position indicators are visible. The red and green LED’s lighted match the red and green turnout positions on the LCS control schematic I posted yesterday. There are a lot of Gilbert cars visible in the picture.
> 
> View attachment 515406


Tom thanks for the additional electrical information, especially the schematic. Great looking layout also. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> This week two of us posted pictures of REA reefer cars from Lionel AF. Today I was running a NP Challenger with a string of freight cars and took a couple of pictures. I really like smoke, this one smokes well with a full smoke fluid reservoir. It is on Line 1 passing by the freight yard.
> I noticed a tuscan/black REA car in the picture I had forgotten about. Of course it is on the layout right in front of me. It really is amazing how much is noticed in a picture that is overlooked otherwise. Here they are. The 48806 posted earlier was cataloged in 1994 and is in the red second generation box. This one, the 48802 was cataloged in 1988 and is in the first generation white box.
> 
> 
> View attachment 515602
> 
> 
> View attachment 515604
> 
> 
> View attachment 515606


Nice photo of the smoking Challenger scene. Love the smoke. You can never have enough in my opinion. Gotta get on of those REA cars. Great looking. 

So now you mention you have an EE degree. No wonder you have such advanced electronics with the iPad and LCS. (at least for me) I thought I was doing good to adapt the TMCC system for track and switch control. I must admit that what you have done is a little over my head for now but I will study the schematics you provided. I have never owned an iPad or had a need for one. 
A Christmas present from my dog to me?? 

You mentioned that you use a ZW1. I use the good old 275 ZW. With the CAB1, I have excellent slow start or slow running control. I also have 2 1133's for accessories, lights, and other such things. One 1133 controls an inner 4 track tank car switching yard which can be connected to the TMCC controlled main with a toggle switch change. This is as far advanced electronically as I am for now.
Can I use my ZW with the LCS or do I need a ZW1? 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I use a 275 ZW also. Love it.


----------



## AmFlyer

The ZW-L is a $700 investment but it has four throttles that each output 10A. Plus it has complete protection for overcurrent and voltage spikes to protect expensive modern Legacy engines. The original ZW is fine but if you have modern engines additional protection must be put in the track supply circuits. All the Legacy interfaces are built into the ZW-L so all that is needed is a 990 base/Cab2 or a base Cab1L.
If you ever decide to get an LCS WiFi module and an iPad it is pretty simple to build the layout track schematic on the iPad screen. No degree is required. My layout has a complicated track plan with 3 main lines, two yards, a staging yard and multiple reverse loops. It is broken up into 7 screens on the iPad. 
On my layout the 2 ZW-L's are only for track power to the 8 power districts. There are six other power supplies for all the accessories and lighting. That does not include the three wall warts for the Legacy bases and the LCS loop. The reason there are six accesory power supplies is because there are three different voltages required and there are both AC and DC loads.


----------



## alaft61ri

This my talking sation it is cool


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice B&O caboose Mopac. I like the red ones.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice 755. They are neat, everyone needs one. I also like the 590 control tower in the background. They are just Plasticville but Gilbert did a fantastic job with the paint scheme. Also looks like either the 749 or the 23778 street lamp set as well.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, here is an example of what happens when multiple road number variants are offered. Note the different numbers. I justify this because my layout is intended to be set in Western Pa.


----------



## AmFlyer

On the subject of AF REA cars there is one more, the 48563. Enjoy!


----------



## mopac

Nice talking station. I want one but have not found condition and price I like.

Tom, nice flat car and REA trailers. Nice trailers. Was watching a nice Gilbert REA
baggage car on ebay and forgot when the auction ended, so missed it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, when I saw your nice red caboose I looked to see what I have in red. Found two. One of them, the NYC from American Models is below. But while looking I photographed the NP which is sitting on a siding right in the front of the layout. 
When I looked at the picture I saw that melt spot above the bay window. It is not easily visible on the layout, I had to run my finger over it to feel it. I run a constant 13.5V on the track for the Legacy system but only the trains running are in powered blocks. This caboose took less than 5 hours at 13.5V to develop that melt spot, be careful with yours.


----------



## mopac

Another reason to go LED on everything.

Very sharp NP caboose. And a NP locomotive to boot. Very nice.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The ZW-L is a $700 investment but it has four throttles that each output 10A. Plus it has complete protection for overcurrent and voltage spikes to protect expensive modern Legacy engines. The original ZW is fine but if you have modern engines additional protection must be put in the track supply circuits. All the Legacy interfaces are built into the ZW-L so all that is needed is a 990 base/Cab2 or a base Cab1L.
> If you ever decide to get an LCS WiFi module and an iPad it is pretty simple to build the layout track schematic on the iPad screen. No degree is required. My layout has a complicated track plan with 3 main lines, two yards, a staging yard and multiple reverse loops. It is broken up into 7 screens on the iPad.
> On my layout the 2 ZW-L's are only for track power to the 8 power districts. There are six other power supplies for all the accessories and lighting. That does not include the three wall warts for the Legacy bases and the LCS loop. The reason there are six accesory power supplies is because there are three different voltages required and there are both AC and DC loads.



Tom thanks for the additional information. I knew the ZW-L was $700 since I priced it when I was first going to TMCC. All of my locomotives are American Flyer and none newer than 1965 so I can not use Legacy which is why I didn't buy the ZW-L. Like you I use my ZW only for track power which has proven to work well. I knew from the start I was not going to buy any of the Lionel Legacy locomotives since my goal was to stay with the older Flyer locomotives. As far as the LCS goes, I am studying that system and the requirements. Also looking at iPad pricing. 
Somebody once said that a person should know their limits. Well for the time being TMCC is my limit. 
Nice NP locomotive and caboose and also the NYC caboose. The number of different American Flyer and Lionel cabooses is enough for me without going to other manufactures...for now. Subject to change if I find something at a train show! 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Here is my picture of the day. Don't know why the red generator came out with a slight pinkish tint. I took several pictures and all turned out the same way. It really is a darker red. Maybe my LED over head bulbs affected it. I do know those LED's give off a different shade of light. Not sure I like those. Funny why those LED's affect mostly red colors. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

2 cabooses 930 and 977 with man in back. Need to get a red one.


----------



## alaft61ri

Sorry for got pictures here thy r


----------



## Mikeh49

@AFGP9 - what color is that reefer in the background of your generator floodlight? In real life, that is.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Cramden, here is an example of what happens when multiple road number variants are offered. Note the different numbers. I justify this because my layout is intended to be set in Western Pa.
> 
> View attachment 515672


They are nice cars Tom, but you made my point! Once you get started , it never ends. Too many original Flyers I'd rather spend money on if I was buying. Neat looking liquor store, did it start out as a Plasticville railroad car? 

Lots of great pictures guys, it doesn't take long to fall behind when I miss a day or two.

Can't really see the melt mark on the caboose Tom. I've heard of original Flyer diesels that have a melt mark on the noses, but never ran across one. I wonder if a piece of aluminum foil taped to the roof or the nose inside would keep the heat away from the plastic?


----------



## cramden

asidlikjr. posted a picture with some streetlights in the back round that Tom referenced. Here's a few pics. of some of the ones I have managed to pick up over the years. The 749 lights that's missing the box top and the 778 lights in their box. The 749 lights are all plain whereas the 778 lights came with a mailbox, a fire alarm box, and a plain light. The 749 ones had wiring instructions on the back of each box. The 749's are first, then the 778's.


----------



## AFGP9

Mikeh49 said:


> @AFGP9 - what color is that reefer in the background of your generator floodlight? In real life, that is.


That reefer you asked about is closer to the lighter color in the other picture. I got it in a collection I bought. It looks sun faded. There were 3 other cars and a caboose also with that car that are all sun faded. The guy had them on a display shelf in a window. It says "Wabash" and "21008" on it but I don't know if that name and the number are correct. Honestly I've never taken time to research it. It isn't listed in the Greenberg price guide. In fact in the section where you find 2100 series numbers in Greenberg's all numbers are for locomotives. Other than the small word "Wabash" the sides on this car are too plain to be an original factory produced car as is and there are no reporting figures on it. I'm sure the color is original but what it was when new is anybody's guess. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks for the pictures of the two streetlight sets. The 778 and 23778 are identical except for the packaging. I could not tell which set is on the layout.


----------



## AFGP9

cramden said:


> asidlikjr. posted a picture with some streetlights in the back round that Tom referenced. Here's a few pics. of some of the ones I have managed to pick up over the years. The 749 lights that's missing the box top and the 778 lights in their box. The 749 lights are all plain whereas the 778 lights came with a mailbox, a fire alarm box, and a plain light. The 749 ones had wiring instructions on the back of each box. The 749's are first, then the 778's.
> 
> View attachment 515826
> 
> 
> View attachment 515828
> 
> 
> View attachment 515830
> 
> 
> View attachment 515832


Cramden nice lights and boxes. I have a bunch of dark green lamp posts but no box so I can't ID them. I see only light green and silver listed. They are currently in a box all tangled up much like looking at Christmas tree light strings. I've had them for some time but never took time to check them out. They seem to be the correct size though. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The 12008 is a relettered Gilbert car. Quite a few were done and sold by Kris Model Trains but this Wabash is not one of theirs. 
Hobby Surplus also did a large number of reefers and Gondolas with non Gilbert roadnames. Way back Hobby Surplus bought at auction unused Gilbert parts after the liquidation. They then repainted and lettered the bodies. There are picture and ads on the myflyertrains.org website under "kris."
I previously posted a picture of the Kris EL boxcar on my layout. I also have some Hobby Surplus cars.


----------



## cramden

Kenny, AFAIK, all of the Gilbert plastic lights were bronze colored. There are some other lights out there that look like the Gilbert ones, but there are slight differences in them. Some might be Marx or Colber's own lights under their brand, but I've seen similar lights at shows without the packaging. I have more of the Gilbert ones but these are the only boxed ones. I was always looking for this kind of stuff at shows and found numerous items from Flyer on Lionel sellers tables who didn't know what they were.


----------



## AmFlyer

If the streetlights are dark green, metal, with a nylon globe and look like this they were made by H&H in Pittsburgh. I have a bunch of them in OB’s. If I find an OB tomorrow I will post it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are pictures of two Hobby Surplus cars. Early on these could be ordered with any trucks and couplers. These are later and have PikeMaster trucks. I have some of their NH gondolas with link couplers.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> If the streetlights are dark green, metal, with a nylon globe and look like this they were made by S&S in Pittsburgh. I have a bunch of them in OB’s. If I find an OB tomorrow I will post it.
> 
> View attachment 515860


Interesting light, don't recall hearing about them. Are they similar in height to Gilbert's and were they a nationally sold item? Did they make other train items and other toys? Lots of questions. Thanks in advance.


----------



## AmFlyer

They are the same size as the Gilbert street lights.I am not sure how widely distributed these light were. They show up from time at train shows. Most people incorrectly attribute them to Marx. Having some NIB helps tell their history.
My dad bought four of these lights in December of 1949 at a five and ten in Mt. Oliver (Pittsburgh.) Three of them are visible in this picture of my 1955 Christmas layout.


----------



## AmFlyer

Ok, I found the streetlights in the OB’s. Here is a picture that shows all sides of the OB for these streetlights.
They are the No. 430 made by H&H Sales in Pittsburgh, Pa.


----------



## flyernut

Here's a 5 digit track cleaning car. It comes with the box..New felt pads were never ran, and the car itself has never been ran. It is new in the box, but the canisters have some black garbage on them. It would rate mint except for those goober marks. If anyone wants it, $25 bucks plus.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> If the streetlights are dark green, metal, with a nylon globe and look like this they were made by H&H in Pittsburgh. I have a bunch of them in OB’s. If I find an OB tomorrow I will post it.
> 
> View attachment 515860


That street light looks like the ones I have. So what is this Wabash reefer I have then? I just thought the previous owner had done a one off of his own. Now I am wondering. I'll check that "myflyertrains.org. Thanks for the information. I got the lights at a train show. Since the guy was selling AF stuff I thought he knew what they were but he didn't know so I got them for next to nothing. $5.00! 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> They are the same size as the Gilbert street lights.I am not sure how widely distributed these light were. They show up from time at train shows. Most people incorrectly attribute them to Marx. Having some NIB helps tell their history.
> My dad bought four of these lights in December of 1949 at a five and ten in Mt. Oliver (Pittsburgh.) Three of them are visible in this picture of my 1955 Christmas layout.
> 
> View attachment 515864


Tom, looking at that black and white photo, it looks like you got a pretty good start on your American Flyer collecting with a nice train set and all those those accessories not to mention 715 with a solid color Manoil coupe. 

Kenny


----------



## Sagas

*Repaints*

I came accross these recently and thought they were quite well done (better than anything I could attempt). Originally the shells were painted the standard green painted over black plastic with the exception of the Express which was painted over white (see below). The Express and one Coach have diecast frames while the other is sheet metal and all converted to KC's. Best guess is that the Coaches are 650"s (the diecast earlier) and the Express early 651. Both Coaches have one insulated truck (the diecast still has its wiring) so only light sockets required.

The GP-7 is one motor with PulMor and standard E-unit but no horn, roar or date stamp on the shell. The correct number is probably under the stickers but I doubt I'll bother trying to peel one off to look. It runs well and all just require a light cleaning.

The picture of a real car or similar was probably used for the paint scheme. Note that the purple is not mottled as appears in the pictures. Just thought you might find it interesting. J.B.


----------



## alaft61ri

Box cars


----------



## AmFlyer

Someone did a really nice job creating that CP passenger train.
Those two freight cars look to be in perfect condition. Does the 970 have brass wheels or is it just the lighting?


----------



## mopac

Nice boxcars. The CP train is very cool.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I think your Wabash reefer is most likely home made. It is still good to be familiar with Kris and Hobby Surplus who used surplus Gilbert shells to make road names not done by Gilbert. These cars rarely appear on vendor tables at shows.
When the picture was taken in 1955 the 716 automatic dump car was not on the layout. I still have everything with the OB’s.


----------



## AmFlyer

While looking for the streetlights in the OB’s that I posted yesterday I found some other items that might be of interest. Here is one, it is the rarest of the link coupler passenger cars, the satin silver 503 observation. This one is in LN condition. These were sold only in 1952 uncataloged set #434. The 434 is a rare set. I have the pieces that make up the set but no OB’s.


----------



## mopac

Sweet passenger car and have not seen one on ebay. it seems that usually the observation cars
are not the rarest in a set. Nice car. In fact I don't remember seeing any 500 series cars.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

Beautiful Tom!


----------



## cramden

Nice C.P. passenger set Sagas. Someone did a nice job on that set.

Very nice boxcars asidlikjr. I like the Walking Brakemen cars, though my Seaboard is noisier than my Cookie Box.

Tom, that's just plain stunning. Now I've seen 3 of these. Yours, your friends in the set book, and a picture of a boxed set that was on an auction site that if I remember went for close to $3,000.00. I think most wouldn't mind if the set box was missing in order to have the 4 car set. You have some really unbelievable items. Here's a picture of the set at auction, and no, I didn't bid, just watched.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice looking 434 set, the boxes are there but rough. It would easily bring $2,500.
The 500, 501 & 502 were made in chrome and one of them frequently appeared in a 405 Silver Streak set. Not so the 503, that is why it is so rare.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I went to the "myflyertrains.org" site, looked under "kris" and saw cars I have never seen before. Of course my Wabash isn't there. Thanks for that reference. I book marked it so I can use that as a reference. Just for fun I checked eBay to see if any were there. Nope, not a one. I really wasn't surprised. Something else to look for at train shows. 
As to my Wabash reefer, I have thought all along that was a custom or homemade car, especially since there are no reporting marks on it.

I've never seen any of those 500 series coaches in real life. All are shown in Doyle's American Flyer book with the pricing. No wonder I've never seen any at a train show! You would need a locked glass case and an armed guard considering the price values shown! Your observation car looks like a new one. Very nice. 
Doyle lists the scarcity number for all of the satin cars as "8" but chrome ones at "7". Doyle claims that only the 500 combine and 502 Vista Dome were chrome while all the whole 500 series coaches were satin. One thing for certain, the satin cars are way more costly!


----------



## AmFlyer

All the 500 series passenger cars were uncataloged and not offered for separate sale. The satin silver coaches were only used as part of a rare uncataloged set. The chrome 500 cars were randomly packaged in a high volume cataloged set as a substitution for the 600 series car that was supposed to be there. A lot more chrome 500, 501 and 502 cars were made than satin silver. I guess the pricing is supply and demand.
The situation with 900 series cars is the opposite. All the cars made were cataloged. Far fewer chrome cars were made than silver. Plus the chrome 900 series cars seem to rarely be in excellent condition. So in the 900 knuckle coupler passenger sets good chrome cars are much harder to find.


----------



## alaft61ri

Cleaners here r three of them but the cleaner part is missing and one is missing top piece and two of them r the same .


----------



## mopac

Nice cars.
I have a nice 648. It also has the bracket that holds the pads missing. I am ok with
that. I am not a fan of cleaner cars. LOL, mine is not a cleaner car any more. I am going 
to put it in my work train. Work train will have the service car, a crane car, a gondola with
gravel, a gondola loaded with track rails and ties, and a work caboose.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

[email protected] said:


> Cleaners here r three of them but the cleaner part is missing and one is missing top piece and two of them r the same .


I'd like one, just because. 2 weeks ago there was a 5 digit one for sale at a local train show. Pretty rough and missing everything underneath that would 'clean' the track. I passed on it. 
I'm assuming that replacement parts are available; Portlines?, TTrains?
I need to do my homework in case another pops up down the rail.


----------



## AmFlyer

Why not buy a like new one, Flyernut has one for sale in this thread, just $25.


----------



## AFGP9

The one Flyernut has for sale looks pretty good, (what else would you expect) and for $25 I'd buy it if I didn't already have 2 of the one he shows. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyerFan

AmFlyer said:


> Why not buy a like new one, Flyernut has one for sale in this thread, just $25.


That's probably the best idea. I have very few original boxes for any of my AF stuff. Those boxes were tossed the day after X-mas 1957 by me. 
I still have some room in my clear padded plastic tubs.
A couple of local train shows coming up. I can't wait.


----------



## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> The one Flyernut has for sale looks pretty good, (what else would you expect) and for $25 I'd buy it if I didn't already have 2 of the one he shows.
> 
> Kenny


Thanks for the kind words, and I do still have it. The only thing missing is the clear material on the face of the box, the "window", if you please.


----------



## alaft61ri

Little bit of my layout


----------



## mopac

Looks like a fun layout. Very nice. How do the trains hold the rails with the table at that angle? Just kidding.


----------



## mopac

Just so I can post something today. First pic is my A-B-A Mopac
engines. 2nd pic is my Mopac observation car.


















These are from a Fly/onel repro set. think I have 6 or 7 other Mopac cars to go with these. Makes a nice
looking train.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Just so I can post something today. First pic is my A-B-A Mopac
> engines. 2nd pic is my Mopac observation car.
> 
> View attachment 516194
> 
> 
> View attachment 516196


You have some nice trains Al! I am still waiting to see your layout though.:laugh::laugh:


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Just so I can post something today. First pic is my A-B-A Mopac
> engines. 2nd pic is my Mopac observation car.
> 
> View attachment 516194
> 
> 
> View attachment 516196
> 
> 
> 
> These are from a Fly/onel repro set. think I have 6 or 7 other Mopac cars to go with these. Makes a nice
> looking train.


Hey, you stole that set from me,lol!! I also have around 7-8 cars for it.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Broke, not a day goes by I do not think about a layout. The planning stage is
over. I know exactly what I want. Now, to just build it. I have all the lumber I need
except the plywood top. And I need some bolts, washers, and nuts to hold all the sections together. LOL, I still say it is coming.

flyernut, I know you have the set also. And have added cars. It only comes with 4 cars. It is a looker.
And we added the B unit with Railsounds.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Thanks Broke, not a day goes by I do not think about a layout. The planning stage is
> over. I know exactly what I want. Now, to just build it. I have all the lumber I need
> except the plywood top. And I need some bolts, washers, and nuts to hold all the sections together. LOL, I still say it is coming.
> 
> flyernut, I know you have the set also. And have added cars. It only comes with 4 cars. It is a looker.
> And we added the B unit with Railsounds.


I have a additional B unit for my NP set, making it a ABBA, 1 B unit with sounds, the other just a plain Jane, but everything is new.


----------



## cramden

Lots of interesting pictures guys, thanks for sharing. My picture for today is my K5364W boxed "Silver Rocket" set from 1953. I have a soft spot for chrome engines and cars. As Tom stated, they can be hard to find in great condition, so when I saw this I couldn't pass it up. Not perfect, but nice enough for me. The boxes are packed away so just the train is shown.


----------



## AmFlyer

I do not have any MoPac passenger sets, those look nice. 
The Rocket set is in good condition. Most have more wear and chipping than the one pictured.
I think the only chrome diesels I have are 405's. They seemed to hold up better than the later engines.


----------



## AmFlyer

Flyernut said he still has the 24533 track cleaning car available. They are had to find in LN condition and they do work well cleaning the track. I do not recommend them only if a layout has scale style open frog turnouts.
Here is a picture of the box. This car has never been out of the OB. You can see it is wrapped in very fragile thin cellophane that is damaged just by handling it. Once the car is removed the wrapper is destroyed. A strange box design.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac great looking engine set and the observation car. Always liked the looks of that Mopac set and passenger coaches. 

Cramden the chrome on those Rocket engines and coaches looks pretty good. I know it took me forever to put together a nice set with all the correct cars with nice looking chrome. I originally bought the Rocket set at a train show with good chrome but not great. My intention was to upgrade as I found better coaches at train shows. Eventually I had 11 coaches, many duplicates, but finally a nice set of coaches with nice chrome. My engines both had nice chrome except for a few minor blemishes and one small scratch on the nose of one of the engines. All said and done, I sold it all. As I have said before, while a good looking set, it just didn't look right for my rural, rustic themed layout. Too fancy. A 312 or 302 pulling New Havens or heavyweights looks much better. Yes I could have kept the Rockets in my collection and shelved them but the money offered was better. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Nice 336. Large motor Northern.


----------



## mopac

Another pic of my 336. All original. No touchups.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice original 336 Mopac, and untouched! Even better! Amazing!

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Nice 336 Mopac.
Here it is Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend. The outside lights are up, the interior is decorated and I am sitting in the UAL lounge waiting for a delayed flight to Newark. Don’t ask why I am doing this with all the bad weather in the northeast.
While waiting I have a picture of a 678 turnout with its OB. This one has been on some of my layouts, it could use a cleaning. The only things unique are the OB and the single controller.


----------



## AFGP9

Love the hand written price on the box Tom.....4.30! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Too bad I did not get it for that price.


----------



## alaft61ri

640 and 924 coal cars


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## mopac

I have a few of both those cars. Let me ask something. Did AF make a 940 hopper?
Like that 640. But with knuckle coupler.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yes, but remember Gilbert assigned the 640 number to two different cars. In 1953 the Wabash hopper appeared, it was numbered 640. So there are 940 k/c hoppers but they are Wabash lettered.


----------



## cramden

Nice looking 336 mopac. Too bad the weather isn't like when your picture was taken. Lots of sun, and trees full of greenery. 

Nice 678 Tom. You don't see many single switches with their box. The stamped letters are very sharp. 

Nice hoppers asidlikjr. 


Mopac, here's a picture of a 940 Wabash with my homemade coal load. Empty hoppers don't make any money for the railroad. I had forgotten that I made it from HO coal and a piece of foam cut to fit.


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## AmFlyer

Really nice coal load Cramden.


----------



## mopac

Nice coal load cramden. I hope to load up all my hoppers.
I meant the gray hopper as far as 940. Pretty sure I have some
Wabash hoppers. Of coarse not as nice as yours cramden.

Tom, have some dual control turnouts, No singles.


----------



## Sagas

*The 9200 Hopper*

I believe it was issued in 79' and has its OB but has never been run. J.B.


----------



## mopac

I have seen that car on ebay. Nice.


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## alaft61ri

The one on left picked up for 20. The 302 ac picked up years ago at a flea market the tender was a mess clean painted the tender new wire harness. They run pretty good.


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## mopac

Nice looking steamers. I like the high mounted headlight.


----------



## Sagas

*The 21099*

It was part of the "Meteor" set from 58' and has whistle. At one time I had the complete set (20435) but all thats left is the engine, Mobilegas tanker, transformer, and set box. All trains were stored at my mothers house for many years and I suspect she did some sort of cleanout since there were other items missing as well. Pity. J.B.


----------



## mopac

Very nice and complete 5 digit steamer.


----------



## cramden

Sagas said:


> It was part of the "Meteor" set from 58' and has whistle. At one time I had the complete set (20435) but all thats left is the engine, Mobilegas tanker, transformer, and set box. All trains were stored at my mothers house for many years and I suspect she did some sort of cleanout since there were other items missing as well. Pity. J.B.


Very nice and hard to find. At least you have the set box. All you need is the 24216 UP hopper, 24419 CN box car and the 977 action caboose to complete the set. I think I'd look again if possible for the missing items. Some of these sets came with the extremely rare 25031 action caboose. One was on ebay a few years ago and the asking price was $10,000.00 and it wasn't in the best condition. It didn't sell, but wouldn't be surprised if it was sold after the auction ended from someone who saw it on ebay. I have only seen 2 of these, both in photos, not in person.


----------



## rsv1ho

[email protected] said:


> The one on left picked up for 20. The 302 ac picked up years ago at a flea market the tender was a mess clean painted the tender new wire harness. They run pretty good.





Nice job.

Mine is going to need a lot of help.


----------



## 65446

mopac said:


> View attachment 502882
> 
> 
> 
> This is my first AF locomotive. Got it used in 1955. It is a 1952 model. Runs great Being from when I was a kid I am fond of it.
> Oh, its a 282, plastic body Pacific. I need to resolder wires from tender to engine plug. Since this pic I have installed a new harness.


Same thing here, the 4-8-2, same years, just before I went to HO.
My father, who didn't care much for trains, must have thrown it away when we moved into Manhattan in 1963..


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## alaft61ri

This my dump car i repainted it about 2 months ago. Not bad


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## mopac

Nice job on the repaint. Looks good.


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## mopac

2 of my favorite cars. Both in good condition. One has some age
lines in the brown roof paint. Only car I have with age cracks.


----------



## dooper

mopac said:


> 2 of my favorite cars. Both in good condition. One has some age
> lines in the brown roof paint. Only car I have with age cracks.
> 
> View attachment 516972


My favorite too. Great colors. I have 4 - that is how much I like them.


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## alaft61ri

922 GAex 976 missouri pacific 933 Baltimore &oh


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## mopac

977 caboose with rubber conductor.


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## alaft61ri

Picked these up last night from grandpa train this one of the hobby shops i go he is holding two steam engines for me 283 and a 303 nice will pick them up in aweek


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## Sagas

*Little Guys*

I know it shouldn't be here and there is a dedicated A.F. forum for HO but when I came across it I just couldn't resist. It is #30510 1959-60 “The Marketer” HO Freight Set - #'s 31031 (Penn Switcher), 33521, 33505, 33519. Complete except for track (which I have). Thought you might find it interesting. Barry


----------



## AmFlyer

Gilbert HO is an interesting part of history. I received a Gilbert HO set in 1956. Over the years I focused on S gauge and my brother took the HO and built a small collection of Gilbert.


----------



## cramden

Great looking set Barry. Everything appears to be in excellent condition. I've had a few opportunities to pick up some Gilbert HO, but have managed to talk myself out of buying any.


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## alaft61ri

This is my 307 run great and move fast.


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## mopac

This Wabash hopper is one of my transition cars. The hopper cars
trucks are easy to change as the trucks are held on by a screw.
No rivet to mess with. But the trucks will be different as you can
see. Fine with me but might bother some.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is an easy way to make a transition car. This one however does not seem to be performing that function in the picture. The sheet metal truck needs to have its link coupler reinstalled when it is done pulling that 938 caboose.


----------



## mopac

LOL, you are too observant Tom. And you are correct. Link and knuckle do not hook up. I should have turned the hopper around.
Shame.

That Wabash looks pretty nice in the photo. Some times the lettering on those look faded.


----------



## cramden

Interesting 940 mopac, my 940 trucks are riveted, not screwed on. Did you buy it that way or did you change it?


----------



## AmFlyer

I just looked quick look at a few of the hoppers on my layout. The 940 and 2 other 9 series hoppers have riveted trucks. A 632 and a 640 have screw on trucks.


----------



## mopac

cramden, I think I bought that Wabash with the truck change. I have a 640 grey hopper
I changed one of the trucks with screws. The Wabash is buried, I will dig it out tomorrow
and see how trucks are held on.


----------



## bill5062

Hi All - Getting started again in American Flyer after 60 years of not running my trains. Question - I have researched books and websites and I cannot find the answer to the following. What gauge wire is used: from transformer to track (22 awg solid?) - rewiring engines (24 awg stranded?) - hooking up switches and accessories (24 awg stranded?) Can anyone please help me out? Thanks!


----------



## AmFlyer

I think we have a thread hijack here. Just quickly, for a small layout use 16 or 18ga wire to the track, use the Gilbert provided rainbow wire for the turnouts, I think it is 22ga. I use 18ga for accessories but 22ga will work if the runs are short. All wire is stranded. For large layouts buss wires can be run under the layout with solid wire.
If rewiring engines use the superflex stranded wire and harnesses sold by vendors for that purpose.


----------



## bill5062

Thank you! - Bill


----------



## AmFlyer

Welcome to the S gauge forum of the MTF! Let us know how the layout comes together and post some pictures.


----------



## AmFlyer

Seems like it has been a while since I posted any pictures. Here is something a little different. Pictured are the convention cars from last year’s S Fest. I was quite surprised when I got these at the entrance to the show and saw how nice they are. The detailing is outstanding. If anyone models the IC these would be nice cars to have.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice i like


----------



## alaft61ri

Something diff


----------



## AmFlyer

Who made the floodlight tower? It looks very sturdy.


----------



## cramden

Nice looking cars Tom, I especially like the gondola, that's something I haven't seen on many Flyer layouts. 

That's a neat light tower, looks like it might be a Marx. 

For my picture today, sometime back I think Kenny(AFGP9) was talking about Christmas lights, can't find the exact post, but he mentioned the light shades that spin similar to the airport beacon top that Flyer and others have made. The heat of the bulb is supposed to make the beacon spin. I mentioned that I collect vintage Christmas ornaments and said I had a box of them. Well, The tree is getting decorated and took a couple of pics. of the ones I have. I don't use the C-7 lights anymore since the leds are much cooler and safer so these won't go on the tree this year, not enough heat to make them work. Here they are. They came 10 in a box. There are little metal cones that sit atop of the bulbs to balance the shades on, but apparently fell out of the box and are somewhere in one of the containers. I will proceed with a hunt at some point. They are difficult to get working, it's not easy to keep the bulb straight up so the shade will balance.


----------



## AmFlyer

I do not have any of those shades, they are very nicely made. 
I also have a collection of old Christmas decorations, some of which I use, some are NIB. The tree has C7 bulbs, some have the plastic stars. The colored outside C9 lights are all original inside frosted swirl glass bulbs. The red cellophane wreaths all have halo's on the bulbs. Maybe I better stop here.


----------



## cramden

Still use original C-9 lights outside, they are Christmas to me. I have about 6-7 bubble light strings also but they're from the sixties. Almost all of the decorations are Merry-Brite and Shiny-Brite along with some other unknowns. I always bought boxes of balls when I found them at antique stores.


----------



## mopac

Nice light tower.

Tom, those convention cars are nice. Sure wish I had seen something on S Fest
in St Louis. I missed it.


----------



## mopac




----------



## AmFlyer

There it is, 1948 Royal Blue set.


----------



## AmFlyer

MoPac, I was unable to make the St Louis meet this year. To get those cars I ordered them when I preregistered for the meet. I do not recall what the St Louis car was.


----------



## cramden

Nice to see you have all the cars for the set. Gilbert must have sold a "gazillion" of that set over the years.


----------



## mopac

Shame the Royal Blue was a bottom of the line locomotive.
No choo choo, no smoke. And a shame Gilbert did not make
Royal Blue passenger cars for S scale. They did for their pre war
O scale.

I got my Royal Blue from flyguy55. It runs and I have not gone through it.


----------



## alaft61ri

Like i said last night here is 4 pieces of marx that came with the set my moms cousin had with the american flyer set when i was a kid.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yesterday Cramden posted pictures of some nice Christmas light original shades. He and I then had a brief back and forth about the lights. For the one or two of the readers who did not follow the Christmas Light discussion and actually care I thought I would provide background and a few pictures.
Today most Christmas lights are LED’s and most people seem to decorate with the small miniature size. However some of us are stuck in the past and prefer the larger incandescent bulbs. We referred to two types in our posts, C9 outdoors and C7 indoors.
Way back when Christmas lights were new manufacturers adopted a nomenclature for them. “C” meant cone shaped and the number was the diameter at the widest point in 1/8ths of an inch. Most common were C6, C7 and C9 but these were usually called C6 1/2, C7 1/2 and C9 1/2, the actual diameters of the glass at the widest point (C7 would be 7/8”). Other designators were “G” for globe and “D” for decorative. 
This system got to be too complicated for the consumer and did not speak to the socket size. In 1972 the manufacturers changed the system. “C” now meant Christmas and the number defined the socket size. “6” is miniature, “7” is candelabra and “9” is intermediate. A standard bulb socket is “medium.” So if a Christmas light package has a size with a “1/2” in it the package was made prior to 1972.
Some pictures. The first picture shows a modern C7 bulb on the bottom and a late 1950’s production C7 1/2 on the top. Looking closely the shape of the glass has changed, the old bulb on the top has straight angled sides, the new one on the bottom has bowed sides. The wattage has also been reduced for cooler operation.
The second picture is an OB of GE C9 1/2 bulbs from about 1940. Prior to WW2 GE used Mazda (God of light) as the branding for their high end bulbs. After Pearl Harbor GE immediately dropped the Mazda name. The third picture is one of the C9 1/2 bulbs inside the box. It is flame swirl molded glass with inside frosting rather than outside painted. These are the bulbs I use on the exterior of the house, it takes some work to keep finding working replacements.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice Marx items. The water tank looks similar to the Gilbert operating water tank.


----------



## cramden

Nice group of accessories, they look to be in very nice shape.

Tom, you are more versed in the lights than I am. All of mine are likely from the 50's and 60's. Mine are not swirled, just plain. I have come across Mazda light strings before that appeared to be swirled but in the C-7 size, I'm guessing for indoor use on the tree. I never bought any due to the fact you stated, where to get replacements and not knowing if they all were working. I passed on numerous types of tree lights for the same reason. I would really have to think about using the flame swirl bulbs outside, most people wouldn't have a clue what they were if they saw them. I have a nice supply of C-9's due to the kindness of an unknown donor in my neighborhood who left a rather large box of assorted bulbs on my front step one morning a few years ago. Nice of them instead of tossing them out knowing I always put them up every year. Ho Ho Ho!


----------



## AmFlyerFan

AmFlyer said:


> Yesterday Cramden posted pictures of some nice Christmas light original shades. He and I then had a brief back and forth about the lights. For the one or two of the readers who did not follow the Christmas Light discussion and actually care I thought I would provide background and a few pictures. It takes some work to keep finding working replacements.
> 
> View attachment 517986
> 
> 
> View attachment 517988
> 
> 
> View attachment 517990


Interesting history on these. If anyone would know & collect them, my money is on you!

Since you're able to fix almost anything; how about if I send you my 2 boxes of really tangled up lites to untangle? I thought I did a good job of storing them last year. It looks like a big rat's nest minus the rats.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> MoPac, I was unable to make the St Louis meet this year. To get those cars I ordered them when I preregistered for the meet. I do not recall what the St Louis car was.[/QUOTE
> 
> I have never been to the St. Louis S Fest since that would be a 400 mile round trip for me.
> 
> Tom looks like you got some nice IC cars there. I really like that gondola.
> 
> Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

cramden said:


> Nice looking cars Tom, I especially like the gondola, that's something I haven't seen on many Flyer layouts.
> 
> That's a neat light tower, looks like it might be a Marx.
> 
> For my picture today, sometime back I think Kenny(AFGP9) was talking about Christmas lights, can't find the exact post, but he mentioned the light shades that spin similar to the airport beacon top that Flyer and others have made. The heat of the bulb is supposed to make the beacon spin. I mentioned that I collect vintage Christmas ornaments and said I had a box of them. Well, The tree is getting decorated and took a couple of pics. of the ones I have. I don't use the C-7 lights anymore since the leds are much cooler and safer so these won't go on the tree this year, not enough heat to make them work. Here they are. They came 10 in a box. There are little metal cones that sit atop of the bulbs to balance the shades on, but apparently fell out of the box and are somewhere in one of the containers. I will proceed with a hunt at some point. They are difficult to get working, it's not easy to keep the bulb straight up so the shade will balance.
> View attachment 517932
> 
> 
> View attachment 517934
> 
> 
> View attachment 517936


I hate to disagree with anybody but cramden it wasn't me that you were talking with about Christmas lights but will gladly join the conversation. While I do have a snake pit of old light strings, all C7 style, I must confess to buying one of those already lit trees. Got tired of the untangling game. I also have 7 strings of those old bubble lights from the 50's or early 60's my parents used when I was a kid. I now use the newer ones bought 6 years ago. Nothing LED. 
I do have boxes of vintage ornaments. I have an old chest style freezer in my basement that came with my house that is full of Christmas stuff. I used to buy animated figures every year so I accumulated quite a bit of battery operated or plug in Santa Clauses and Mrs. figures, moving elves, reindeer, etc. At one time I used to collect Christmas decorations and ornaments at garage sales. I have some wooden tree ornaments that are at least 100 years old 10 years ago. I bought them from an 85 year old lady who had owned them for several years. She was from Kentucky and said when she was younger they didn't have electricity so they hung the wooden type of ornaments on their tree. As I said, those wooden ornaments are are least 100 years old.

All grand kids are grown and in college and with my wife's passing 4 years ago no need to put out all that stuff. Plus my knees wouldn't like all the up and down the stairs climbing. I just put up that tree, add a couple of newer bubble light strings, a couple strings of green and silver garland, newer ornaments, plug the tree in and call it good. 
My dog doesn't seem to miss all that other stuff. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Who made the floodlight tower? It looks very sturdy.



Tom that it is a Marx floodlight tower. I have one just like it. Yes they are well made. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, my wfe died 4 years ago also. She loved Christmas. We always had lots of
decorations insde and out. Lots of lights. Our male golden retriever died 2 months before the wfe.
So it is just me here. No decorations for 4 years. I am fine with that. Glad I don't 
have to take that stuff down and pack it away.


----------



## alaft61ri

*283 303*

Here is the two i had on hold needs some normal cleaning one i took cover off needs fingers and cleaning the havenyet but need piolt truck which i have a spear


----------



## AmFlyer

For the record, I do not untangle strings of lights. For me, patience is measured in seconds or fractions thereof. I am careful to roll up the light cords so they can just be unspooled the following year. Like some of you I put up fewer of the large outside lights this year.


----------



## AmFlyer

Those look like good engines with strong lettering.


----------



## AmFlyer

I previously posted a picture of the No.31 Railroad signs. Here is a picture of the No.30 Highway Signs on the left and the No.32 City Street Equipment on the right.


----------



## mopac

Cool signs. I do not have any of those sets.

Nice 283 and 303. Better get some front pilot wheels for the 283.
I think I have 2 283 and 0 303.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

AmFlyer said:


> For the record, I do not untangle strings of lights. For me, patience is measured in seconds or fractions thereof. I am careful to role up the light cords so they can just be unspooled the following year. Like some of you I put up fewer of the large outside lights this year.



I thought I was careful winding mine up on those orange extension cord carriers.
I also have a short attention span/patience and don't like to untangle. My wife might've had something to do with storage.
I might just take and hang those orange carriers w/lites in the trees as they are.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

Back on topic.

I really like seeing those daily pictures. You guys have some amazing stuff.

This is about the first thread I look at daily with my morning coffee.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are three more of the little items I collected back when I thought I would have a small train store display. These are the 5 digit versions in the red/white boxes. I also have 3 digit versions in blue/yellow and in plain brown boxes. when I find them I will post pictures. These are all NIB.


----------



## cramden

I'll try to respond to all of the previous posts without confusing myself or others.
Kenny, I wasn't sure if it was your post about the Christmas lights, maybe it was Shaker281, hope he's alright, he hasn't posted recently.

Nice pair of engines asidlikjr, the 283 was my first engine as a boy in 1955. I think I have 5 now, and a pair of 303's.

Nice 30 and 32 sets Tom. Do you have the 34 railway figure set? It wouldn't surprise me if you do. I have scaled back on all decorating from previous years. My wife doesn't want me climbing ladders and such. I have been using a pre-lit fake tree to avoid the tangled light syndrome and just add colored lights since my wife likes the white ones and then we're both happy. Anyway, back to the picture of the day. Here's one of my 303's.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Here are three more of the little items I collected back when I thought I would have a small train store display. These are the 5 digit versions in the red/white boxes. I also have 3 digit versions in blue/yellow and in plain brown boxes. when I find them I will post pictures. These are all NIB.
> 
> View attachment 518222
> 
> 
> View attachment 518224


 Missed this one while posting.
So now I know who is buying all of the bulb boxes I see for sale. Nice with the bulbs inside.


----------



## AmFlyer

I only bought the little boxes that were new condition with the original bulbs inside. Got those at a train show 10 years ago. 
I do not have the 34 set. I never saw one in new condition and even the less than perfect ones were at $1,000. I quit looking.


----------



## cramden

I never saw one in person and the only picture I've seen of one is in the Gilbert Gallery. At those prices, it wouldn't have mattered to me.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, my wfe died 4 years ago also. She loved Christmas. We always had lots of
> decorations insde and out. Lots of lights. Our male golden retriever died 2 months before the wfe.
> So it is just me here. No decorations for 4 years. I am fine with that. Glad I don't
> have to take that stuff down and pack it away.


Mopac, sounds like you and I have the same thoughts regarding Christmas decorations and for the same reason. I still like all the decorations....in somebody else's house. Out door displays too. I'm not a Grinch. Like you say, I don't have to take all that stuff down, repack it then back to the basement. The pre-lit tree I have comes apart in 3 pieces then back into the box and back to the top of the basement freezer. 2 trips down the stairs and done. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyerFan said:


> I thought I was careful winding mine up on those orange extension cord carriers.
> I also have a short attention span/patience and don't like to untangle. My wife might've had something to do with storage.
> I might just take and hang those orange carriers w/lites in the trees as they are.


I used the same orange extension cord carriers you mentioned. I have so many in that old freezer it just looks like a snake pit. Glad I bought that pre-lit tree. Simplifies everything. 
I too am short on untangling patience which is why I used those extension cord carriers. Besides, I got train engines to test my patience on when working on them. Funny how I have waaaay more patience for those old AF steamers than anything else!

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is another accessory that was packed with some sets, mostly uncatalogued sets. It is not rare but not many show up at train shows unused in the original box.


----------



## Chaostrain

AmFlyer said:


> Here is another accessory that was packed with some sets, mostly uncatalogued sets. It is not rare but not many show up at train shows unused in the original box.
> 
> View attachment 518500
> 
> 
> View attachment 518502


There's someone here in the Portland, OR area selling one for $15 on Facebook. The ad says it looks all the parts are there so apparently it's been opened.


----------



## cramden

Nice one Tom, never had one but saw some at shows. The only one I had was the 770 girder trestle set that came in an uncatalogued 20175 set that I sold long ago.


----------



## flyernut

Not a photo but a story.. A gal was selling her Dad's trains, which included 2 large transformers, tracks, switches, buildings, water tower, passenger station, 315, a 307, various freight cars, but the best part of the deal was the Red Baldwin M&St.L switcher with 3 red stripe passenger cars all for the grand total of $40 bucks!!. I sent her a message warning her she was about to be ripped off, and told her the total should be alot more. She took down the ad and placed a price of $800 of best offer. Every 3 days she dropped the price $100 dollars but still couldn't sell them. She finally dropped it down to $399 and I offered her $300. She said no, if I came up to $375 I could have them. I said no, but the $300 dollar offer was good until Christmas. She then had someone else post a ad for the trains, selling them separately. I again offered the person selling them $300 for the Baldwin, the cars, and the 2 steamers... The ad no longer exists, and I never received a answer.


----------



## JMedwick

A good story Flyernut. Hopefully she didn’t get ripped off. Reminds me of a few years ago when I saw someone post a 334 DC and a bunch of cars on freecycle. No cost. Just come pick them up. I responded to the add right away, but with the volume of responses the poster figured out that he/she should take it down. Not long later I saw the same stuff posted on Craigslist.


----------



## mopac

Got this in the mail yesterday. A 700 box of 12 straight track.
Track in great condition. I am not a cardboard collector. The
OB is not that big of a deal to me. But this box is very nice.
All flaps are nice. The best part is it was 1.99 on ebay. 9 ship.
I don't know yet if I needed more track but at that price I had to go.


----------



## alaft61ri

Received my revit tool for the sold shouldet from portline hobby works nice also received the 322 tender with smoke in tender. Just needs a good cleaning. Al


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Here is another accessory that was packed with some sets, mostly uncatalogued sets. It is not rare but not many show up at train shows unused in the original box.
> 
> View attachment 518500
> 
> 
> View attachment 518502


Since I have been "off the air" so to speak for a few days due to Christmas activities, I just saw this post from AmFlyer. My first American Flyer set I got for Christmas in 1954 included this same cardboard trestle set. 
To the best of my recollection, I remember this trestle set and the 303 engine, IC reefer, gondola, and caboose train set as being in one box which my dad bought from the Sears & Roebuck catalog. Knowing my dad, he wouldn't have bought 2 separate boxes since that would have constituted 2 gifts. Each kid got only one present. I just remember the set box being a big box. Being from Sears & Roebuck, I have never seen a set box like that one leading me to believe that, as with a lot of other stores' sets sold at the time, this set was uncatalogued. I have never seen this set in any publication to get a set number. 
My dad had set it up for Christmas morning in a figure 8 configuration. I have a photo showing part of the set up, though not the whole figure 8, since the photo was of my sister. My train and trestle set are partially in the photo. Somewhere I have a photo of the whole thing but have yet to find it. That photo shows the whole figure 8 set up with engine number. Naturally I put it where I couldn't forget where it is. ???

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, now that you brought it up you have to find the photo! At the moment I am freezing in Baltimore, when I get home I will get you the set number for your 303.


----------



## alaft61ri

Here is the 322 hudson tender i bought on ebay neefs work mostly cleaning looked inside. Picture. My 662 will be in tomorrow with dome but i did not notice at first it say power dc. Will see ooops.


----------



## flyernut

[email protected] said:


> Here is the 322 hudson tender i bought on ebay neefs work mostly cleaning looked inside. Picture. My 662 will be in tomorrow with dome but i did not notice at first it say power dc. Will see ooops.


That tender is for a DC engines, as you stated.


----------



## Kelpieflyer

flyernut said:


> That tender is for a DC engines, as you stated.


How can you tell? I wouldn't know by looking at it and would wonder why it didnt work on AC.


----------



## mopac

I don't know about the tender is for DC, but it does look like it is for an engine with reverse unit in boiler. The tender might not have a reverse unit in it.
If tender does not work for you, it would make a nice auxiliary tender.


----------



## mopac

And then again, it might be a 5 digit engine tender. Is there only 2 wires coming out?


----------



## AmFlyer

There are no DC Hudsons so the tender is for an AC set. It looks like a smoke fill hatch on the tender coal pile so it is likely from a SIT or possibly a 320 that had no smoke or choo choo. It is in nice condition.


----------



## cramden

As Tom stated, it's a S.I.T. likely from 1948. It appears to have a brass weight. Notice the lever out of the bottom of the tender, that's the on/off lever for the smoke in tender unit. Hard to tell from the picture,but if the center of the trucks have wheel sets, that would be common for early 320,321,322 tenders. On a side note, both the 21129 and 21130 Hudsons had plastic tenders.


----------



## flyernut

I guess I haven't recovered completely from my mishap from last week.. I should have said the tender was for a reverse unit in boiler.


----------



## alaft61ri

Its for a 322 hudson which i got the engine for 5.00 which iam restoring the orignal tender was empty someone had a tender with smoke in tender no shell they wanted 80.00 for it to much. So i bid on this one paid 50.00 it is not dc. The 662 i bought i didnt read it well it says power supply d.c..


----------



## mopac

Thanks for info cramden on plastic 5 digit tenders. I don't have any 5 digit engines
but should have known about the plastic tenders. That tender does look like it has
a fller cap on top. I don't have any smoke in tenders either. All by design, LOL.


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> Got this in the mail yesterday. A 700 box of 12 straight track.
> Track in great condition. I am not a cardboard collector. The
> OB is not that big of a deal to me. But this box is very nice.
> All flaps are nice. The best part is it was 1.99 on ebay. 9 ship.
> I don't know yet if I needed more track but at that price I had to go.
> 
> View attachment 518680
> 
> 
> View attachment 518682


That's the best argument for not worrying about rusted track, if you have patience, there's lots of it available cheap. Great price on the track mopac.


----------



## Sagas

*K5346W*

I acquired this set in the summer of this year. It is complete with a few extras; the 905 log car and 760 Highway Flasher. They are not part of the original set so either bought separately or throw-ins from the dealer. It appears as if it was run very little and some packages unopened. Price on the carton is $79.95 but I didn't pay that for it unfortunately.


----------



## cramden

Great looking set Sagas. Everything looks to be in excellent or better condition. Nice to find a set that looks to be complete, and 2 bonus items aren't bad either!


----------



## mopac

Great looking K5 set. Very nice.


----------



## AmFlyer

Great looking K5 set.
Kenny, I spent some time looking for your set. there is no documented set from 1954 that matches the contents of your set. There is one that is almost identical made in 1955, the 103. The 103 contains the 923 IC reefer, the 931 T&P gondola, a 940 Wabash hopper, a 938 caboose, enough track for a figure 8, a manual uncoupler, a 1 1/2 transformer and the 747 cardboard trestle set. Problem is it is documented with a 307 engine. It is possible a few were made with a 303 but w/o the 4th car.


----------



## alaft61ri

Checked it out 662 not dc nice shape it aluminum not bad for 17.95 plus shipping here is a picture.


----------



## AmFlyer

When I got back home from my trip to the frigid east coast there was a Lionel box with three new items waiting for me. So Christmas might be early this year. 
First picture is the new U36 Legacy diesel with a complimentary Santa Fe caboose. I think I have mentioned I like red cabooses. The second picture is a new Legacy SD70. I already have a UP caboose.
They need to be lubed and then programmed into the Legacy base before I run them. Already added smoke fluid to get the wicks well soaked.
There are 5 Gilbert freight cars visible in the background that are sitting in the freight yard.


----------



## alaft61ri

What is the best way to clean aluminum and like to remove dome but really dont see how anyone tooke one apart if someone . thanks al


----------



## cramden

Well, your concerns about the 662 were unfounded. Time to get polishing, it should clean up nicely.

Great looking Christmas gifts Tom. It seems Christmas is coming early for a few of us. After finding out my 48 322 Was actually a 50 engine with a 48 tender, I thought I should find a correct one. I did, and this showed up today. It's a 1948 322 with the box and the cardboard insert in L/N condition. It had to thaw out for a while but runs and smokes like new.


----------



## mopac

Nice dome passenger car. flyernut has taken those apart and made them look like
new. Maybe he will throw some tips your way.

Tom, nice new engines. I love UP locomotves. I have many HO UPs.

Cramden, WOW !!! what a nice Hudson. Congrats. It looks great.

Congrats to all 3 of you guys. Nice additions.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Great looking K5 set.
> Kenny, I spent some time looking for your set. there is no documented set from 1954 that matches the contents of your set. There is one that is almost identical made in 1955, the 103. The 103 contains the 923 IC reefer, the 931 T&P gondola, a 940 Wabash hopper, a 938 caboose, enough track for a figure 8, a manual uncoupler, a 1 1/2 transformer and the 747 cardboard trestle set. Problem is it is documented with a 307 engine. It is possible a few were made with a 303 but w/o the 4th car.


Tom I have searched for that set number many times with no luck. Since I knew it came from the Sears & Roebuck catalog I surmised it was an uncataloged set as Sears, Montgomery Wards, and some Firestone Tire stores had American Flyer sets displayed for sale. I mentioned the Firestone Tire stores because I can remember going with my dad to one where he bought all of his truck, car, and tractor tires from and every year at Christmas time there would be an American Flyer train display. Of course I had no interest in tires but sure would set and look at those trains! 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Cramden nice 322 and with the clear box printing. Very good. Though I am not much of a box collector, I still admire nice ones that people seem to come up with. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The box even has a date stamp on it. Not all do.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom here is the partial photo taken of my sister as I mentioned showing part of the track and trestle pieces. This will have to do until I can find the other one. 

View attachment AF Christmas 1954.pdf
Never mind. Won't open. I'll try again later.


----------



## C100

*Dome Car*



[email protected] said:


> What is the best way to clean aluminum and like to remove dome but really dont see how anyone tooke one apart if someone . thanks al


It's Al?? Thanks, All??
Keeping my reply short, and judging by the picture shown, I would leave the dome alone. I would get the smallest container of Mother's aluminum polish(Walmart?) and a soft cloth and polish away.(being careful of the silhouettes) Check your bulb for operation, clean your pick up wheels thoroughly, a drop of lube on the axles and call it a day. I purchased an aluminum set a few years ago that needed a lot of love. That was replacing parts, cleaning, etc. If you decide to take that car apart, I can post how I did it. By posting what I did instead of a PM, you could certainly get better suggestions/methods over and above what I did.

Fred


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice 322 jealous good luck have fun.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thanks fred that would be helpful


----------



## C100

[email protected] said:


> Thanks fred that would be helpful


You have decided that you want to take that car apart and not just polish it up??


----------



## mopac

I would try the polish first and see if it is ok.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I was able to see the picture. Many of the cardboard support piers are visible.
I have a book published in 1996 that has copies of all the Sears toy train Wish Book pages from 1950 through 1967. There are no Gilbert train sets in the Wish Book in 1954. That does not mean none were sold in stores, just that one more source of Sears train history does not help.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I'm glad you at least got see that photo and the trestles shown. As to that book you have listing all Gilbert trains sold by Sears, I am surprised no Gilbert trains are listed. You have managed to destroy a memory I have had all my life, such as it was, lol. 
I am, however, certain that the local Sears & Roebuck here back then did have American Flyer trains displayed. Their Christmas toy department display was always pretty elaborate. Then maybe the store sold their own made up sets? I have contacted my brother 2 years younger than me and a cousin who both confirm that that Sears store did indeed sell American Flyer trains along with Lionel. My cousin got a Lionel train set from there the same year as I got my American Flyer set. He still has it today, packed away. 
Must have been a local thing maybe? 

Kenny


----------



## flyernut

I can also verify that Sears sold AF trains. As a kid, I remember going to Sears with Mom and Dad, and hustling my butt over to the toy section to see the wall at one section filled with AF trains!!The whole wall had various locos, cars, and accessories. There was also a department store at the local shopping center called "Edwards" which sold clothes, furniture, and nick-nacks. They also had a toy section with Lionel and AF trains. There they had the elusive MP set, sold in 1963-64, #20767, the Eagle..My buddy grabbed it and walked out of the store with it, and he gave it to me as a present!!


----------



## MichaelE

One of my childhood friends received an AF set in the early 70's from Sears. I think that's the only department store that was around where we lived back then.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

X-mas 1957 I was 5 yrs old. When I awoke 'Santa' had set up a AF train set around the tree. #20305 the 'Flying Freighter'. I've often wondered how many miles its logged since then.
Back in those days my folks bought everything from Sears. It's likely that that set came from Sears but I have no way of telling. I don't remember the boxes. I've been looking at old family pictures, I know there is one around and I'd dearly like to find it.
Of everything I've ever gotten for X-mas this was the best.
I'm hoping our 80 lb puppy leaves it alone once I set it up very soon.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

Forgot to add a picture.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sears sold a variety of American Flyer sets. Unfortunately with only a few exceptions they were not included in the Sears Wish Book. That eliminates one way to document the contents of uncataloged sets made for Sears. Another way to document those sets is vintage advertising. The only ads I have copies of are those run by Gilbert. If anyone has ads run by Sears, or other retail outlets that might show these sets.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

I remember well those 'Wish Books' from Sears. Aptly named.
Mom has a couple of them saved, but they are from the 60's.
It's just a shot in the dark. I knew you would know all about the history.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyerFan said:


> Forgot to add a picture.


I have all those sets..I also had the Flying Freighter set as a kid, and I believe Dad bought it at Sears... Dad sold all the trains, but I have 3 sets of the Flying Freighter now.


----------



## mopac

Got this nice 636 in the mail Friday. 10.00 plus shipping.
Wheels show very little run time. My third one.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

flyernut said:


> I have all those sets..I also had the Flying Freighter set as a kid, and I believe Dad bought it at Sears... Dad sold all the trains, but I have 3 sets of the Flying Freighter now.


You have more AF stuff then I've ever seen before.
How many complete Train sets do you have now?


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyerFan said:


> You have more AF stuff then I've ever seen before.
> How many complete Train sets do you have now?


At one point, I think I had around 30 complete sets, no set boxes, but quite a few individual boxes.. Of course that doesn't included duplicates and triplicates... I have problems,lol!


----------



## cramden

mopac said:


> Got this nice 636 in the mail Friday. 10.00 plus shipping.
> Wheels show very little run time. My third one.
> 
> View attachment 519248


 Great price for a very nice looking car mopac. The paint looks great as well as the spool.


----------



## Sagas

*K5423T*

The 1954 "Mountaineer" set. A set that was never run. Probably given as a gift at the time. Opened, looked at, packed back up and never touched again. Locomotive wrapping, transformer and all paperwork in the carton. This is one of the two other rare times (for me anyway) when I've come across a separate inspection slip for the whole set. Most were probably thrown away but instructions kept. Barry


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice set, so rare to find one that has not been run. Two questions if you don't mind. were any of the cars packed with cardboard coupler protectors, if so are they square or round? Is there a wood block packed between the engine and tender?


----------



## Sagas

Tom, there are no protectors or wood block. Most likely discarded when unpacked to view the set. All wheels are shiny with no rail marks or imperfections. My first set (5301T) I received at Xmas had a block and round tubes to protect the links from hitting the end of the boxes but, of course, were discarded. The previous set I posted had a few square ones for the KC's but not on all cars and again no wood block. Some later cars given to me to add to sets did have some but not all. As you know, when they changed to the red boxes they added a flap at either end to hold the cars in place and protect the couplers. My "Pathfinder" set (20545) has those. Barry


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks for the response. Some of the cars in my original 1950 and 1952 sets had the round protectors. Some of the cars were also wrapped in a yellowish beige paper inside the box.
The red boxes also brought the exact fit box size for boxcars. The trucks were just turned to put the couplers under the chassis.


----------



## Sagas

Tom, I have not come across any paper wrapped cars. My first 53' set was packed the usual way with stamped corrugate for the engine, the blue / yellow boxes for the cars and for the 12 sections of curved track, however the paper that you mentioned I have found used to wrap the number of sections of straight track for sets with various sizes of oval layouts. I assume you have a number of mint unused sets of which I have only a few so you would be the best expert in that area. Barry


----------



## cramden

Great looking set Sagas. I have the same 1953 link coupler set without the set box. I have a complete boxed set, #5525TBW that the cars in the boxes were wrapped in brown paper along with the rectangular cardboard coupler protectors and the wood block for the engine. It's the only set I have that came that way. It didn't have an inspectors slip with it. It's possible the paper was to protect the cars from paint rubs while in the boxes.


----------



## AFGP9

Sagas said:


> The 1954 "Mountaineer" set. A set that was never run. Probably given as a gift at the time. Opened, looked at, packed back up and never touched again. Locomotive wrapping, transformer and all paperwork in the carton. This is one of the two other rare times (for me anyway) when I've come across a separate inspection slip for the whole set. Most were probably thrown away but instructions kept. Barry


Nice set especially since it was never run. As Tom said, finding a set that has never been run is very rare. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

On the subject of never run sets, I have a total of 29 boxed Gilbert sets. Of those, two have never been run. One was the 20000 Miners work train set I already posted pictures of and one is set 4730A made in 1949. I purchased this set from Dennis Bagby, it is one of the sets photographed for the Volume III Sets book. I have several sets that appear new but the wheels show they have been run. An unused set is rare.
Dennis purchased many sets from the collection of Glady's Trains in SD in the early 2000's which were never run. I had a chance to see them at his home in Altadena after the book was published. I just purchased one of them as a memento. He sold them all to collectors after the book publication.


----------



## Sagas

Many years ago I encountered a man who said he collected and had a few pieces for sale. When we went into his basement I could not believe what I saw. In one room nothing but unopened sets, floor to ceiling and not just one of each but three or five of the same set going from the late 40's until the 60's. Another room contained accessories and again duplicates, triplicates and more, all new and unopened. Another contained rolling stock, all shelved and unopened. Finally, the last room contained anything Gilbert (Erector, Chemistry, Magic sets, Slot Car sets, Appliances, HO). If you could name it he had it.

He told me had started collecting when he was very young but a significant amount he collected was at the end of the 50's and early 60's when trains were dropping in popularity and a lot of hobby shops were starting to go out of business. He would offer the shops a little better than a jobber price for what they had in inventory. His collection easily covered 80% of his basement and the rest of it was his layout.

When he passed away the collection was auctioned off and apparently generated some major dollars. I have never come across anything like it since. Barry


----------



## AmFlyer

A few of the American Flyer Christmas Cars make up a short holiday train passing through the city.


----------



## alaft61ri

This one of the hooby shop i go to his farther started it in 1950 he loved trains all kinds. These are some pictures i took. I wont show all of them to many there are alot more that i didn't.


----------



## AmFlyer

It looks like a nice hobby shop to have nearby. He has a nice pre-war collection.


----------



## AFGP9

We all should be so lucky as to live near such a hobby/train shop. Only thing I see wrong is that looking up at all those trains could give a person a neck problem! 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

This the 310 i bought from that hobby shop. Paid a little bit moore but in good shape.


----------



## mopac

Cool train store. Looks like a museum. Thanks for the pics.
That 310 does look in great condition. Nice paint and handrails. What else counts.
I really love the K5s. You have a nice train room.


----------



## flyernut

Nice 310, and your layout looks great!!!


----------



## AmFlyer

I am currently out of new pictures of interesting Gilbert items. But I spent time running trains today and took a couple of pictures I could post. This is an Erie Berkshire pulling out of the yard leads onto the mainline. The Berkshire started out as a FlyerChief but was gutted and modified to run on Legacy.
I took the pictures just after sunset with no room lighting on, resulting in a long exposure time. That is why the layout is in focus but the motion of the engine caused it to be slightly blurred.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice you guys have really great layouts


----------



## mopac

Nice pics Tom. Your layout always looks great.


----------



## dooper

Very nice Tom. No, not very nice but excellent!!

Maybe if were to get some of Alice in wonderland" cookies, we could go for a ride.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks guys! I enjoy running trains on the layout. Stop by sometime.


----------



## AFGP9

Excellent looking layout and equipment Tom.


----------



## AFGP9

[email protected] said:


> This the 310 i bought from that hobby shop. Paid a little bit moore but in good shape.


Nice 310. Paying a little more for an engine that is great looking and runs well is sometimes a good idea. Just so long as it isn't a whole lot more. By the way, nice looking shelving with all your trains displayed. Looks like you have some very nice stuff.


----------



## AmFlyer

One final picture post for the year, and the decade. I took this as a demonstration of the pulling capability of the new FlyerChief GP7 diesels. The UP version is pulling a 20 car mixed freight up a 2.25% grade. The cars to the rear are Gilbert, the ones to the front are mostly Lionel Flyer. This is not a free rolling train as it would be if the cars were all AM or MTH.


----------



## Tom_C

Technically, there is 1 more year in this decade, but that's an argument for another forum. 

Great layout. I've never been one to care about scenery pictures on the wall, but your's looks great. Gives great depth to the scene. Very nice.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Tom. The backdrop was hand painted by an artist on separate panels that attach to the back of the layout structure. It is on 3 sides of the layout and since the top is above eye level it feels like one is totally immersed in the scene.


----------



## cramden

Great looking 310 asidlikjr. It doesn't appear to have been used much. Glad I don't have a hobby shop like that nearby, could get too costly. Stuff has a way of following me home.

Excellent pictures and trains Tom. I missed the Christmas train, do you collect them all, or just randomly. I started to collect the box cars with the year dates, but sold them along with my other Flyonel items. I have to take some pictures now that the holidays are wrapping up. I also got tired of my track plan so I'm playing around with a few new ideas and running some trains to see if I like the plans.


----------



## AmFlyer

Cramden, I have all the Christmas boxcars and some of the other style Christmas cars.
I am curious what you are doing with the track plan.


----------



## cramden

Tom, that makes two of us. I get bored with the plans I come up with and have been looking at various plans online. At the moment, I have this basic track plan set up. I like the look of this since it's not too crowded.http://www.americanflyerdisplays.or...ory_layout_images/inside_front_cover_mrhb.jpg

That could all change on a whim because I never seem to be satisfied, but at some point I have to decide or nothing will get done. I would like a few sidings for various accessories and their cars, but everything takes up space and eventually I overcrowd the layout. I will hopefully find the balance or will end up back to where I started from.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a 90"x80" track plan. It has 3 loops, none interconnecting. There is only one passing track and one siding. I prefer a lot more complexity in my track plans. To get that and enough sidings I have always settled for two interconnected loops for train running. Adding a 3rd loop at that layout size caused too many other compromises.


----------



## cramden

It's actually 96"x72"or 8'x7' according to the site. I added 6" to the 6' side so I have 96'x78" to work with. I have laid out the plan with the least amount of cuts in the track possible and it seems to be okay running trains. I can place 4 trains on the layout like before with the 2 loop plan I had but can run 3 instead of 2. The 2 other factory layouts that are 8x6 all have 3 trains running. I'm not sure what I'll end up with but right now I'm just exploring options. Elevated sections and tunnels also take up real estate so that's a consideration too. I might end up back with the 2 loops with passing sidings that I started with.


----------



## AmFlyer

Wow, the last post here was on New Year’s Day. I have no special Gilbert items today but since I was running the 4014 BigBoy this morning I took a few shots to post here. The 4014 was the first Legacy engine Lionel sold for S gauge, it is a fantastic runner.
The first picture is heading west on Line 1 just after departure from the hidden staging yard. The second is exiting a reverse loop and rejoining Line 1 after running the layout. The third picture is eastbound on Line 1 heading back to the hidden staging yard.


----------



## flyernut

I have a Lionel O gauge Big Boy, and I don't remember the cab #,lol...Nice!!!


----------



## AmFlyer

Flyernut, that is great. I think everyone needs a BigBoy. The one I have that Lionel made for S gauge started out as a K-Line O gauge engine. It was undersize at about 1/60th scale. After Lionel bought K-Line it was released as an S gauge engine but inside it is all O gauge.
Here is one more picture of 4014 crossing the diamond. The engine right behind it is a Lionel Flyer Berkshire.


----------



## alaft61ri

You guys have some really nice trains and layout. Great job


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> Flyernut, that is great. I think everyone needs a BigBoy. The one I have that Lionel made for S gauge started out as a K-Line O gauge engine. It was undersize at about 1/60th scale. After Lionel bought K-Line it was released as an S gauge engine but inside it is all O gauge.
> Here is one more picture of 4014 crossing the diamond. The engine right behind it is a Lionel Flyer Berkshire.
> 
> View attachment 521766


Beautiful set up buddy.. I also have a K-Line Allegheny engine in O gauge.. My son and d-i-l finally bought a house and moved out, and I went through some of the crates of boxes I have stored. I probably have around a dozen hoppers of various road names for the Big Boy and Allegheny. As soon as I get my closet organized I'll throw some pictures up...


----------



## mopac

Somehow I ended up with 3 HO Big Boys. I like steam engines.
4005, 4007, and 4014. They all run very smooth.

Great pics Tom.


----------



## cramden

Haven't had a chance to post any pictures for a while, but here's a 4713 PA PB PA set from 1953.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice going to a show the last weekend of the month desil on my list any advice on decent one to get and to to look for not familiar with desiels dont have one any advice would be helpful thanks al


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice chrome set!


----------



## Fire21

Love those Alcos, especially PAs and RSs.


----------



## cramden

Thanks guys, I do have a soft spot for Warbonnet PA's. Tom, great looking Pennsy PA's that you posted. Al, as far as buying diesels, my preference is to buy the best condition possible. I.M.O. the better the condition, the better your chances of getting a problem free one. The other thing is to try and get a dual motor PA vs. a single motor one, unless the condition is better than average. The GP7's are generally good runners, but be sure if you buy a Baldwin switcher that it runs good before purchasing it since they seem to be prone to overheating. If you can't see it run or the seller says he can't test it, pass on it.


----------



## alaft61ri

Whats a good avetage price on desiels.


----------



## mopac

I don't have an original AF diesel. So no idea on a good price for one.

WOW cramden, that PA set looks great. Nice condition.


----------



## alaft61ri

Ok ill figure min 150. Ck on ebay and other places to get an idea thankyou.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Flyernut, that is great. I think everyone needs a BigBoy. The one I have that Lionel made for S gauge started out as a K-Line O gauge engine. It was undersize at about 1/60th scale. After Lionel bought K-Line it was released as an S gauge engine but inside it is all O gauge.
> Here is one more picture of 4014 crossing the diamond. The engine right behind it is a Lionel Flyer Berkshire.
> 
> View attachment 521766


Very nice Tom! The more I see those Big Boys the more I want one. Maybe....

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking Warbonnet set cramden. Having been through my share of those chrome PA's, I concur that buying a better chrome set is the way to go. Yes it will cost a little more but then really nice ones with all the chrome are very hard to find and, as we all know, are priced accordingly. I do like those chrome PA's though. 
Think I will stick to heavyweights and the New Havens. I got plenty of 302's and 312's or whatever else I choose to head those passenger coaches. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

These r the stuff i bought at the show


----------



## mopac

Nice load from the show AL. Love the 312. Congrats on the additions.


----------



## flyernut

NICE!:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## AmFlyer

Good additions.


----------



## AmFlyer

This thread has fallen far down the list. I have not had a chance to dig into the collection recently to find more interesting items. Just to keep the thread alive here are two pictures of one of my PRR Mikado’s pulling a freight in the late afternoon.


----------



## alaft61ri

This is the 322 i did over the tender i did not repaint looked good to me that is the hudson with the sit i hve the rub on 322 havent put it on yet. The other one is the 290 the tender i bought ans repaint and replace fingers. 290 isthe one i had trouble with came redid everything and running pretty good cant explain it i have to replace the white rims .


----------



## alaft61ri

Heres photos sorry.


----------



## AmFlyer

Wow! Nice engine.


----------



## mopac

Tom, as always, great pcs of your layout and locomotives. Thanks for renewing the 
thread.

Al, those are both good looking AF steamers. Both are beauties. Thanks for showing.


----------



## flyernut

Nice!!!!:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## alaft61ri

Thanks guys.


----------



## QueenoftheGN

[email protected] said:


> Heres photos sorry.


pretty


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking engines Tom and [email protected]!! 

Tom thanks for saving the thread. Due to health issues I haven't been able to do my part and post any pictures. Just read the post then back to the recliner or bed. 

Kenny


----------



## QueenoftheGN

cool engines!


----------



## AmFlyer

Sorry to hear that Kenny, I hope you improve soon. I expect to have some new material to post soon, I just need the time to find and photograph the items.


----------



## mopac

I think I have showed all my stuff. Only 3 years into collecting AF. Only got so much.
If sun ever comes back out and it gets a little warmer outside I will start over with my stuff and new pics.


Kenny, you got chemo going on? Get better. We need you here.


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## AmFlyer

Ok boys and girls, I was able to make time to get out three boxed sets today and photograph one of them. I should be able to do one each day. It is sunny and very clear here but a bit cool, it is only 58 outside, but at least the sun feels warm.

For today we have a 1952 4904T set. These sets were cataloged from 1949 through 1952. The 1952 version is unique because a 282 was used in place of the 290 in the earlier sets. Also the 1952 has a 639 boxcar rather than a reefer. It also has the 1952 edition of the instruction manual in the set box. This specific set is a somewhat rare variation since it was packed with a 100W 8B in place of the 75W No. 2 transformer. Also note the Fed. Govt. required OPS stamping on the box. This was mandatory during the Korean War.
The tender is metal with 3 spring trucks, 4 wire, no white glowing smoke. All the freight cars have 2 spring trucks.


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## alaft61ri

Very nice


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## AFGP9

Tom outstanding 4904-T set and boxes! Interesting story about that set too. 

To everybody concerned about my welfare, thanks so much. I had pneumonia, bronchitis, respiratory infection, and a cold with a killer cough. The cold started it all which became pneumonia and 2 days in the hospital. It was a progression of events, although the cough came with the cold. Never coughed so hard and long in my life! Still don't feel 100% but a lot better. 

I have a set that has the 290, 639 yellow reefer, 640 hopper, and 638 caboose. No boxes though. The down side to my set is the fact that the tender is a Reading Lines. I suspect it has been switched since the engine to tender wiring is not factory. I have a correct tender somewhere. One of many things on my to do list. I will post pictures as soon as I am able. 

Kenny


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## mopac

I have that set also. No boxes and my transformer was different. But same 282 and same cars.
My first AF train. Its from 1952 if I am correct. My uncle gave it to me after he tired of it.
I got it in 1955. I was 5. Cool thing about it was my dad sold it new to his mother as a Christmas gift for his little brother. My dad worked for Jewel Tea Co. and they sold AF trains. Glad I still have it.


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## alaft61ri

This is at the newport mansion when me my wife and friends did a tour last december. Location is newport Rhode Island.


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## AmFlyer

For todays pictures we have a boxed 1952 version of the 5103WT passenger set. Once again for 1952 the engine was changed from what was in the 1951 set of the same number. The 1951 had a 295 engine, the 1952 has the 285. I am already getting a bit lazy so I did not unpack all the boxes. 
This set box has a date stamp of 52 shown in the first picture. This box was sourced from Gair, the one yesterday was from Star. The second picture shows the label with the set number stamp, the required OPS stamp, and interestingly the color of the passenger cars packed in the set.
The engine wrapper in this set has no stamp on it. The engine is a 4 wire, no red glowing smoke, the metal tender has 3 spring trucks with sliding pickup shoes. The transformer is the as cataloged No.2. The passenger cars are green painted, sheet metal chassis and illuminated. There are two 650’s and one 651.


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## alaft61ri

Very vert cool i like. Al


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## AFGP9

Nice!!

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

For today’s post we have a 1953 knuckle coupler set, the K5357W. I know a lot of you will like this one because it is headed by a 336 Northern. The 1953 set has the silver passenger cars, the 1954 version has the red stripe passenger cars. 
The set box is in good condition but the label somehow got messed up prior to my ownership. Despite the condition of the label note that the factory set number stamp remains legible in the white circle area on the right side. The set box was made by GAIR and has the date of 53 printed with the GAIR information. The individual boxes are in great shape but the number stamp has faded on some of them. The stamp on the engine wrapper is faded but still readable. 
It is the condition of the contents that caused me to buy this set. The engine and cars have been run but they are in Like New condition. And yes, this 336 has the super armature, otherwise known as the big motor. When I look at this set displayed on the mantle in my office I still wonder why Gilbert made this set with two dome cars rather the one with one coach.


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## alaft61ri

Very nice one day i will get a 4-8-4.


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## AmFlyerFan

Another great picture of the day. What a very nice set Tom.
Someday too...


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## mopac

Nice set Tom. That is a great looking 336.


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## flyernut

Nice.. Are those passenger cars the 500 series set??


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## AmFlyer

Those passenger cars are 960, 962, 962, 963. The 500's are the same body but with link couplers and different number boards.


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## cramden

Nice job on the repainted 290 and 322 Al, they came out looking great. Get those white walls replaced on the 290 and it will look like new.

Tom, great looking sets, and all three are less common. I never realized the 285 was in the 1952 set instead of the 290. The K5357W is also interesting, I always thought the 1953 and 1954 sets had chrome cars. The satin silver cars are not easy to find, I don't believe many were made. Again, very nice sets.


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## AFGP9

As usual great looking set Tom and that 336 too. As I said a while back, the more I see those Northerns the more I might change my mind about buying one. 

Kenny


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## mopac

I have 3 of those northerns. Love them. They are big. Much longer than any Pacific.
I have 332AC, K335, and a 336 with large motor. Do I need 3, No, but that has never
stopped me before. A nice one is expensive. $400.00 range.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, we must be clear on this point. We WANT them, the test for buying American Flyer trains is never based on need.
I am about to post pictures of another Northern set from my boxed set collection. No way I needed this when I purchase it, but I sure did want it.


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## AmFlyer

This set is the last of my Northern boxed sets. It is a 1952 only K5210W. Once again the box is in good shape but the label is faded and the ink stamping of the set number is no longer visible. The box was sourced from GAIR and has the year, 52, printed in the manufacturer information. I thought the printing on the top of this box is interesting. The set contents are the K335 Northern, 928, 931, 944, 945, 12-702, 6-700, 690, 706, 708 and a bag of 18 693’s.
The engine wrapper is in good shape with the printing still strong. Two styles of boxes for the cars were used, the number on all of them can still be read. The K335 is a strong E condition with the cars in LN condition with the exception of the 928, more on that. This K335 has the small motor but with the newly introduced PullMor closed pole armature. 
The 944 was packed in a 644 box, someone wrote over the 6 on the box, likely not at the factory. The 644 and 944 boxes were preprinted, not ink stamped so the factory was likely using up leftover 644 boxes.
The 928 happens to be the rarest of the three variations. It is the “pressed wood” style plus it has the small black lettering variation. It is listed as a 3+ rarity. I included a picture of the underside for those who have not seen one. All the pressed wood 928’s have a number molded in on the bottom. Reported numbers are 2, 3 and 5. This one has a 4, visible in the picture. So this car is an unreported variation. The problem with these cars is the paint does not adhere well to the body so even with almost no use there are a few chips in the paint.


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## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> View attachment 525634
> 
> 
> This set is the last of my Northern boxed sets. It is a 1952 only K5210W. Once again the box is in good shape but the label is faded and the ink stamping of the set number is no longer visible. The box was sourced from GAIR and has the year, 52, printed in the manufacturer information. I thought the printing on the top of this box is interesting. The set contents are the K335 Northern, 928, 931, 944, 945, 12-702, 6-700, 690, 706, 708 and a bag of 18 693’s.
> The engine wrapper is in good shape with the printing still strong. Two styles of boxes for the cars were used, the number on all of them can still be read. The K335 is a strong E condition with the cars in LN condition with the exception of the 928, more on that. This K335 has the small motor but with the newly introduced PullMor closed pole armature.
> The 944 was packed in a 644 box, someone wrote over the 6 on the box, likely not at the factory. The 644 and 944 boxes were preprinted, not ink stamped so the factory was likely using up leftover 644 boxes.
> The 928 happens to be the rarest of the three variations. It is the “pressed wood” style plus it has the small black lettering variation. It is listed as a 3+ rarity. I included a picture of the underside for those who have not seen one. All the pressed wood 928’s have a number molded in on the bottom. Reported numbers are 2, 3 and 5. This one has a 4, visible in the picture. So this car is an unreported variation. The problem with these cars is the paint does not adhere well to the body so even with almost no use there are a few chips in the paint.
> 
> View attachment 525616
> 
> 
> View attachment 525618
> 
> 
> View attachment 525620
> 
> 
> View attachment 525622
> 
> 
> View attachment 525624
> 
> 
> View attachment 525626
> 
> 
> View attachment 525628
> 
> 
> View attachment 525630
> 
> 
> View attachment 525632


I also have that set, I bought it right here on the forum..I also had this same set as a kid.


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## mopac

Very nice set Tom. I guess I have that set also. Well, I have the K335 plus the cars.
No boxes or wrappers. Thanks for showing.


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## AFGP9

Once again very nice set Tom. 

Not in the same league but here is my photo of the day. 
This 370 has the coupler bars. I have 2 others that are converted to KC's. They are not as nice as this one. In fact one was so bad I repainted it and lettered it for an imaginary short line.


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## AFGP9

In the picture of the 370 you can see the bottom of this Lionel 455 operating oil derrick. Here is the whole thing. When operating this thing is loud because of the up and down action of the pumping beam.


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## AmFlyer

That is a fantastic looking 370. I really like them, a 370 set was my second train set as a small child. Plus there is a 5 digit IC reefer in the foreground.
I never saw one of those Sunoco oil derricks as a kid. I think when we were young accessories that made noise were good.


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## AFGP9

Thanks Tom for your observation. I have several of those IC reefers. One is painted, the rest are orange plastic. As to the 370, it runs super. The 455 was something I always found fascinating just by the way it functions. I have had that for a number of years. To be honest, the noise it makes was fun for a while but now years later, it can be annoying to my older ears. I used to turn it on for my grand children who loved it but now they are all grown and could care less. I still like the looks of it though.

Kenny


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## cramden

Another great set Tom, outstanding condition. It would seem that your 928 is a variation of a variation. Not only pressed wood, but a small lettered one along with the 4 stamped on the bottom. I can't remember ever seeing one with the smaller lettering. Nice find.

Kenny, that 370 is in fabulous shape, looks new. Great find.


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## AmFlyer

Getting out all these sets and photographing them is more work than I thought. But for most of these sets it is the first time I have unboxed them since purchase. I just realized the details and rarity of the 928 when I got it out to take the pictures. So it is turning out to be fun and a discovery experience.
My wife has wanted me to photograph my collection for many years now, so she is finally getting her wish, at least for the boxed sets and some of the unusual single items I posted previously.


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## AmFlyerFan

I love seeing all these sets you guys have. A picture is worth a 1000 words. I never knew how much stuff is out there. Keep it up!

A side note; I hope you all have insurance riders on your toys from your homeowner's insurance.
After the first of the year I review my needs with my agent. Not that I need it (yet) for my American Flyer stuff.
Homer T.


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## cramden

My wife has asked for a photo and written description recently also, so far I always find another of her projects to do! I will get to it at some time. Meanwhile, here are some pictures of something I always told myself that I'd never buy, not one of my favorites. A good friend had 2 of these sets and convinced me I needed one. Therefore, I made him sell me the other cars to make up the Truscott set. The set I have is #20550 that appeared to have never been run. The other cars,#30 and #40 along with the flat and boxcar he had. The cannon is a repro, but I knew that before I bought it.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

Very nice Cramden!


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, I do not have one of those sets because, like you I never wanted one. I wonder why so many of those sets have repro cannons. Its like all the originals just disappeared.
In any event a nice set now that you have it.


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## cramden

If I remember, the cannon had a spring loaded firing mechanism and shot small projectiles. The repro doesn't. Wouldn't surprise me if the cannons got separated from the trains early on. I think most were played with after the trains were forgotten. Anyway, I did run it around a few laps verifying that all worked. The smoke and choo choo works, but the choo choo sound is not very loud. I believe it uses the H.O. mechanism because the boiler isn't large enough to house the "S" unit. It's all packed away until whenever, I have other trains that I'd rather display. Thanks Fred and Tom.


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## AFGP9

Tom I for one am glad you are getting out your sets and posting them. Aside from the fact that they are all fantastic to look at, learning what comprises each set is an education. Yes I have Doyle's book to refer to, but as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. 

Cramden thanks for the 370 compliment. I too have the those passenger cars and the box car but no engine and flat car with the cannon. You are correct about the original cannon shooting a projectile. A friend of mine has a boxed set and the original cannon. It clearly could be dangerous in the wrong hands like a kid might. "You'll put your eye out". 
I have seen that cannon flat car at train shows and most do not have the original cannon but those that do are way too pricey. Besides, as your's clearly shows, a replica looks just fine. My problem with that set is I just don't like the engine, no offense. That being said, your set does look good and in like new condition. 
I don't want to pull you into a swamp but you do know there are several variations of those passenger cars don't you? If you go to "The GilbertGallery.org/Passenger Gallery/Frontiersman.htm, there you will see what I mean. 

I use a 302 to pull my cars on the rare occasion I put them on the layout. 

Kenny


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## mopac

As far as the Frontier stuff, I only have 3 #20 passenger cars. I am glad I got them.
I would like all the rest. Mine are in nice condition and I picked them up on a deal.
Like 20 for all three cars. cramden your set looks new. Very nice.


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## AFGP9

Mopac you getting 3 of the Frontier cars for 20 bucks was indeed a deal! And being in nice condition to boot! Good score. I should be so lucky. I haven't been actively trying to find any of the variations but been thinking about them lately. 

Kenny


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## alaft61ri

Verry nice cool


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## cramden

Thanks Kenny and Mopac. I use that site often Kenny, but also look in my books about variations. There are probably variations to almost every item Gilbert made, some are worth looking for and some not so much. As far as the Frontier items, there are painted and non painted coaches along with the placement of the decals on the boxcar. The earliest coaches also don't have American Flyer Lines stamped on them like the later ones do. I'm sure there are other differences without looking them up. I think I have enough of them now, although the Red combine from the Washington set might get my attention if the price was right.


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## AmFlyer

I am on another week-long trip. Before leaving I was able to photograph one more set. This one is an interesting example of a 1957 set, the first year of Gilbert’s adoption of the 5 digit numbering system. The set is the 20315, all sets started with “20”. It contains the very desirable 21004, the only item in the set box actually carrying a 5 digit number; 969, 805, 806, 12-26720, 4-26700, 704, 26690, 712, 22004. I do not understand Gilbert’s logic for putting two bottom of the line 800 series cars in a set with the 21004 and the 969, but that is what they did. The set even has 4 straight tracks, the mark of a higher value set.
Gilbert used two slightly different sized set boxes for the 20315, this is the second version, supplied by Interstate. Note the year 57 in the manufacturers stamp. This box has a legible set number stamp on the label plus the new code for the set packing date. Note the letters “IEG” stamped on the box. I is month 9, September, EG is 57, the year. Interestingly the letter “J” is the number zero. So had the set been made in October the stamp would be “AJEG”.
In 1957 Instruction books were no longer included so a lot of 4 page loose instruction sheets were placed in the set boxes. Note that the rocket launcher box is stamped 25044 even though a 969 car is inside. The car boxes are now stamped in solid black ink. The 805 and 806 are just wrapped in paper, the cheap 800 series cars did not get boxes in the set. Also note the 12 curve track are in one of the off-white cardboard boxes, this is not stamped with any markings. Some of the individual boxes had their identifying data stamped on the interior flaps. The straight track and the 1 1/2B transformer were loose in the set box.
This set is in like new condition so notice the internal cardboard protectors Gilbert used in the engine and tender boxes. This was costly to make and pack.


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## cramden

Great set Tom. I've never seen the inserts for the engine and tender. Gilbert did some strange things when they converted to the 5 digit system. I don't think half of the employees really understood how the system was supposed to work. It sometimes looks that those who set up the system didn't know either! I have the 21004 I bought years ago and have the other cars that go with the set but no boxes. I have mine displayed with the 24553 flat with 2 rockets and a yellow and silver 24631 caboose. I think it looks better than the 805 and 806. Have a safe trip, hope you're going someplace warm!


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## AFGP9

cramden said:


> Thanks Kenny and Mopac. I use that site often Kenny, but also look in my books about variations. There are probably variations to almost every item Gilbert made, some are worth looking for and some not so much. As far as the Frontier items, there are painted and non painted coaches along with the placement of the decals on the boxcar. The earliest coaches also don't have American Flyer Lines stamped on them like the later ones do. I'm sure there are other differences without looking them up. I think I have enough of them now, although the Red combine from the Washington set might get my attention if the price was right.


I didn't know for sure if you knew there were several variations of the Frontier cars or not which is why I included the Gilbert Gallery address for reference. It looks as though you know as much about them as I do. Even though I have been to train shows where I found some of them, I didn't buy because I forgot what some of the variations were and was afraid I would buy what I already had although the painted ones are easy to spot but the hold back when buying at shows was the the decal placement. I guess I need to make a list for variation references and of what I have too. Sometimes those cars are priced right. 
That red combine car would be nice to have. Never saw one at train shows including the DuPage monthly show which I always figured somebody would surly have at that big show. 


Kenny


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## AmFlyer

I like your display choice as well. the 805 and 806 are not up to the rest of the set. 
This trip is 4 days in San Diego (tough duty but someone has to do it), 3 days in DC then one more day in San Diego until I get back to the house. I am hoping for mild weather in DC.


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## AFGP9

Nice set yet again Tom. Thanks for including the code break down too. I wasn't aware of just how it worked. 

Tom since you are flying over my neck of the woods you missed the 8 and 10 degrees and snow we had here Thursday and Friday. I can tell you being out in it off and on it was no picnic even being dressed for it. Since there was a little wind, the wind chill was brutal. Saturday though, it was 36 degrees. Only here have we had these kinds of abrupt temp swings this winter. I'm sure other places here in the Midwest have had the same kind of weather changes too. Strange winter this year. I hope when you get to DC you get decent weather. You do remember the winters here don't you?? 


Kenny


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## AmFlyer

I remember the winters very well, that is why I now live near the beach in SoCal. Unfortunately my wife had to be in East Lansing Michigan last week during the snow storms.


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I remember the winters very well, that is why I now live near the beach in SoCal. Unfortunately my wife had to be in East Lansing Michigan last week during the snow storms.



Tom I can't say I blame you for your move to SoCal. Also sorry your wife had to be in East Lansing during that snow storm last week. Bummer. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

My photo for the day isn't a set or anything fancy. Just a shot of a string of some of my tank cars being pulled out of the tank car yard by one of my UP 372's. 

Kenny


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## mopac

Nice pic. Tank cars are one of my favorite freight cars.


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## alaft61ri

Nice lay out and tank cars.


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## AmFlyer

The layout is full of detail, it looks busy. I like the 372 UP's.


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## AFGP9

Thanks mopac, al, and Tom for your kind words regarding my tank car photos. I patterned that after an actual tank car loading facility. I posted a pic earlier of my Lionel 455 pumper and holding tanks. They are off to the right at the end of the last car near the top of this photo. 

Tom I try and put as much detail as needed in each part of my layout including ground clutter and/or junk. There are some cut off AF track pieces stacked just past the 372 in the picture. I need to go back and separate the rails from the factory ties and insulators and "rust" the scrap rails for a better looking, more realistic scene. 

Kenny


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## mopac

Like I said above, I like tank cars. I have a nice loading facility for my HO. Just yesterday,
I bought a new tank car for my O scale. Menards had a no brainer promotion. Buy a
19.95 O train item and get a 29.95 lighted 1953 ford pickup for free. Headlights and
taillights are lit with LEDs. I have a few of Menards lighted vehicles. As I remember, I
have 2 ambulances with flashing lights, 2 mustang GTs, and now the ford pickup, and LOL there could be more. Most were free with promotions. I pick them up at my local Menards and there is no shipping charge. Must be ordered online.


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## cramden

Nice group of tank cars Kenny and the layout looks like it's full of neat details. The 372 is one of the first diesels I bought long ago with the rest of the cars from the 5520T set. I will get some new pictures up hopefully tomorrow.


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## flyernut

While not S scale, here's couple of pics of my K-Line Allegheny and my Lionel Big Boy, both in O scale.


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## alaft61ri

Those r great beautiful and big nice engines. Like them alot al


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## mopac

Nice steamers flyernut.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice flyernut. 

Kenny


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## dc57

flyernut said:


> While not S scale, here's couple of pics of my K-Line Allegheny and my Lionel Big Boy, both in O scale.
> View attachment 526676
> 
> 
> View attachment 526678


Those are beautiful engines! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## cramden

Great looking engines flyernut.

Here's my 20520 Bankers set from 1959 that Dad bought new for Christmas in 59. My set came with 3 digit cars with the name plates instead of the 5 digit stamped numbers. Must have been some leftover stock of 3 digit orange striped cars.


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## alaft61ri

Nice sets of steamers and diesel s and car do u have the speaker in your 316. Al


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## AmFlyer

Wow! That set looks to be in perfect condition. You must have used it carefully.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today we have pictures of another boxed set, this one a link coupler set from 1948. This is a nice but fairly common set. It does have a real surprise in it that I did not know about until I took these pictures.
This is set number 4607A made in 1948. I think the set box is interesting because of all the factory stampings on it, the Distributor forwarding label and the legible set number stamping on the label.
I cut off part of the box manufacturers printing, it was sourced from STAR and there is no two digit date stamp. Looking at the bottom of the box Gilbert printed the destination on it at the factory. The end of the box has a Butler internal shipping label forwarding this set to their Chicago location using Viking Trucking.
The next picture shows the paper in the box. It was packed by NE 3/18/1948 and inspected by #644 on 4/18/1948. Note that inspector 644 missed the fact that there were two 14 count packages of 693 track locks included instead of one.
The corrugated engine wrapper is in good condition but has no stamp on it so I did not photograph it. The three car boxes are in almost new condition and the 3 cars look like they were never run. The 630 caboose box has a number stamp on both end flaps, the first time I ever observed that.
The finish on the engine is in less than perfect condition although the engine does not otherwise show signs of much use. Note that the engine has all four factory green jewels on the front. The cars look new. The 625 and 632 have trucks with sharp spring stampings and a slot above them. The 630 has average spring stampings with no slot.
Now for the real surprise I found. The 706 uncoupler has a black painted metal box. Handling and examining the uncoupler, it left the factory painted black. It also had the new style button, unusual but not rare for a set packed in March of 1948. This variation is not documented that I am aware of. I had seen a couple of black 706’s over the years but always thought someone painted them. This one is factory so those could have been as well. This is apparently a very rare variation. The other 706 variation is one with the metal uncoupler bars bent over at the top to form a flat uncoupling contact surface. My brother has one of these, they are quite rare but documented as factory. I will try to get some pictures of it in July when I am at his house.


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## cramden

Thanks Al and Tom. Al, my 316 has a complete working Air Chime Whistle in the tender.

Tom, the Bankers only ran at Christmas for a few weeks and not as much as the 283 or the 355 engines. I think around 1965/66 Dad switched to HO so the Flyer's stayed packed away until 1983. Other than a couple of small paint rubs on the cars they are blemish free.

Great looking set, nice to see the jewels are still present, so many engines have had the jewels installed that never had them originally. I remember reading a discussion about the couplers a few years ago, maybe on the S Yahoo site. There is a bit of information on The Gilbert Gallery about the variations. I don't have a black painted one. Neat find in the set.
https://thegilbertgallery.org/Infrastructure Gallery/infrastructure_Track_Accessories2.html


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## AmFlyer

Now we have a black painted 706 w/o the bent over uncoupling bars. The one my brother has with the bent over bars has a yellow painted housing, another variation. We found it around 20 years ago at Bill and Walt's Hobby Shop on the Boulevard of the Allies in Pittsburgh. He also bought a 2B transformer that day, another hard to find item.


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## cramden

Kenny posted a picture of a 372 so I thought I would show mine with the cars from the set. I bought this set along with some other items out of the trunk of a car at a Greenberg show around 1986/7. One of my first purchases. No set box but the fellow selling it was doing a neighbor a favor as he collected HO trains and said he would take the items to the show and see what they were worth. I got lucky and bought all of what he had before he went into the show. I can't remember what I paid for all of it, but not too much.


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## alaft61ri

Very nice i like also like your layout what i can see and your shelve full of trains cars etc etc. Nice job


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## AmFlyer

Nice set to have, especially with the all gray base, tuscan ramp unloading car. I like that truck better than the racer load.


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## cramden

Thanks Al, the layout is once again undergoing a redesign, I'm never satisfied it seems.

Tom, the gas truck is a Tootsie Toy I picked up at a show since the racer was missing. I still am not sure if I'll paint it or leave it alone. Probably leave it because I haven't done it after all this time.


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## AmFlyer

The gray/tuscan 915's came with a Renwal Gas truck, not the racer. the one you put on the car is similar but nicer than the factory truck.


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## AFGP9

Nice set cramden. I have never found anybody at any train show selling out of a trunk. It seems anybody who has gets a good deal as you did.


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## AFGP9

I decided to get my 300AC set out, set No. 590-T. I have no set box and the car boxes are junk. This set had light running time when I bought it but in all the years I've owned it, it has never been out of the box or ran. This is the only true set I own although I could make up sets from the cars and engines I have I have seen posted here. The cord on the transformer is still soft. The tender and all cars are 3 spring, 642 box car, 641 gondola, and 638 caboose. 

Kenny


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## mopac

Nice set Kenny. Looks new.


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## kvlazer22

Amazing set! That 302 looks straight from the Gilbert factory!


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## AFGP9

Thanks for the compliments mopac and kvlazer22.

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I kind of wish you had not posted these pictures. First, it is a really nice, totally uncommon variation of a common set.
Lets begin with the engine. This 300AC is documented as 1950 production, supposedly none were made in 1951, the year the 590T set was cataloged. The engine is variation B with the die cast shell, the tender has type 4 trucks. These trucks were first made in 1951 for use on the 295 pacific with the tender whistle. So the tender has to be 1951 or later production and the engine would have been made about the same time as the tender. 
Moving on to the 642, you have a red refrigerator car, looks to be unpainted but hard to tell from the picture. These were only made in 1952. The set was supposed to have a 642 boxcar. The 641 looks painted red, not unusual. I never saw one of these sets with all three cars red, and I have seen a lot of them. The instruction manual is 1949, not 1952. My guess is this is a 1951 production set, so a few 642 red reefers must have been made in 1951, and it is likely the 300AC was still made in 1951 even though not listed as documented. My reasoning on the engine is many supposed 1950 300AC's are listed as 1950 but documented as type 4 tender trucks and there were no type 4 trucks made in 1950. So those had to be 1951 production engines.
The final observation is all the cars have 2 spring trucks, had this set been made in 1952 the 642 would likely have 3 spring trucks. Plus there is no evidence so far any 590T sets were made in 1952, unlike some other sets that were made after their cataloged years.
The final piece of information would be the date stamp inside the boiler shell. In any event this set is a rare variation of the standard 590T.


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## kvlazer22

Tom, this information is invaluable and amazing! Do you have any resources where you have learned all of this?


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## AmFlyer

I have been interested in and collected Gilbert trains for a loooong time. I have been to many train shows over decades of collecting and had opportunities to learn first hand from some of the S gauge pioneer collectors/ experts. There are also reference books published but these have not been updated recently. We know new discoveries have been made since publication. It is really hard to say "never happened" about Gilbert production dates, quantities and variations.
One of these issues is the type 4 trucks I mentioned above. Prototype and production realities likely required an initial run of these in late 1950 to have the 1951 models ready for the annual February Toy show. Plus Gilbert knew they had a pickup problem with the shorter 2 spring trucks on layouts that used the 725 crossing. So they could have made a run large enough to use some on the final 1950 production runs of Atlantics and 290 Pacifics. We do not know for sure since all the factory records were destroyed post bankruptcy in 1967.


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## cramden

Great looking set Kenny, factory fresh finish on the engine. I really should get a 300/300AC Atlantic. The lack of smoke and choo choo always kept me from buying one. Interesting description of the 590T set in the 1951 catalogue. It states all 3 cars had a red finish, the boxcar being listed vs. the reefer that your came with. A lot of the fun for me is finding out something new about these old trains. I agree that Gilbert did whatever to fill orders and substitutions weren't out of the norm. After all, they were making toys.


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## cramden

Just to add to the 3 spring and 2 spring conversation, I posted this 302AC before, but this one has a 3 spring front truck and a 2 spring rear truck. I can't see the date stamp without taking it apart, but I think it's a 1951. This is listed in Greenberg's book ( type D) but with the longer Pacific tender chassis, not the normal one.


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## mopac

Nice looking 302AC cramden.


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## AFGP9

Tom thanks for your observational comments regarding my 590T set. As usual you have are the man with all the information. I inadvertently listed the 642 as a box car when in reality it is indeed a painted reefer. The 641 gondola is red, not painted as well as the 638 caboose. As to the engine, it is indeed a die cast shell with a 2 wire harness and sheet metal tender. Of course the year is stamped on the engine shell further ahead, not on the cab roof so I can't verify the year without disassembly which I would rather not do. Now for the last point. All of the cars are 3 spring so now I don't know just what I have based on your information. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Cramden I have 3 of those 302's but none are that nice. Mine are in good shape, no scratches or scrapes, but yours looks factory fresh. Actually the whole set looks very nice. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, I remember that engine. It shows most anything is possible from the factory.
Kenny, all three of the cars pictured have two spring trucks, the tender is three spring. I think you are counting yhe number of coils in each spring rather than the number of springs.
The reason I think the 641 is painted is what appears to be very slight box-wear of the paint on the edge of the steps. White is showing on the step edges. That is usually an indicator of a painted car.


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## AmFlyer

Here is a re-post of 3 spring and 2 spring truck close-ups for reference.


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## AFGP9

Yep you are so right about the spring issue. I was counting coils. A mind is a terrible thing to lose. I knew better but just didn't think about it. 
The 642 definitely shows a light color, unpainted plastic on the bottom edges. As to your thoughts on the 641 being painted, no where but the steps is there a clue that it is painted. Gilbert did a very good of painting. After further observation I agree that the slight box wear on the steps does indicate a painted car. You got a sharp eye. Obviously me not so much. 

Kenny


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## mopac

I have showed these but its been awhile.
I have 3 northerns. This is my 336. The first one I purchased.
Got this one from Marty's Trains in New York. This one led to the other 2 northerns.
They are large locomotives.


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## alaft61ri

Nice one day i will get 1 or 2 on wish list.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, I bet you are ready for the trees to have leaves on them once again.
It sure is nice to have a 336 for the KC cars and a 1951 332AC for the link coupler cars. I also really like the Hudsons as well.


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## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> Mopac, I bet you are ready for the trees to have leaves on them once again.
> It sure is nice to have a 336 for the KC cars and a 1951 332AC for the link coupler cars. I also really like the Hudsons as well.


I have the 332AC with the cars, a K335 with the cars, and a large motor 336, also with all the cars.


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## mopac

Tom, I am ready for the trees to come out. Missouri is so dreary in the winter.
I have 2 Hudsons , I think a 322 and a 326, and there are several I do not have.

flyernut, those are the northerns I have. 3 is enough. Glad I have that expense out
of the way. LOL. I do like them.


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## kvlazer22

mopac said:


> I have showed these but its been awhile.
> I have 3 northerns. This is my 336. The first one I purchased.
> Got this one from Marty's Trains in New York. This one led to the other 2 northerns.
> They are large locomotives.


Amazing machine! What is with the brass colored unit on top of the boiler (not sure what it is)? I usually see them in black.


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## cramden

Great trio of cars Kenny, the look like they weren't used at all.

I also have 3 Northerns, a 336 from 1953, a direct wired 336 from 1955, and a 334DC from 1950. I would like a 332 but haven't actively looked for one. I'll have to get some pictures posted of them.

kvlazer22, the brass piece is the steam generator. My 334DC has a brass generator, the 2 336's have black painted ones. It could be that the early ones were brass and later ones were metal and were painted.


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## mopac

cramden, I think my 336 is an early one. 336s came with pulmor wheels except early
336s did not. My 336 does not have pulmor wheels. It does have the large motor and
the brass steam generator. I will try to find some pics of my 332AC and my K335.
They will be indoor pics and not that great. Not overly bright in my basement. I need 
to buy some LED shop lights for basement.


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## mopac

First pic is 336 pulling UP passenger cars.
Second pic is my 332AC
Third pic is my K332AC
Fourth pic is my K335


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## mopac




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## mopac




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## kvlazer22

Amazing engines!


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## AFGP9

Looks good mopac! I guess since I have liked and bought Hudson's is why I never really had a strong desire to own any Northerns. As I have said in the past, since you guys keep posting pictures of Northerns I am beginning to lean toward buying one. 

Kenny


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## alaft61ri

Me to those r great looking.


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## alaft61ri

Nothing yet but here is some pictures


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## mopac

Nice looking layout. Love your wall shelf also.

Kenny, I love hudsons also. They are big engines. Northerns are bigger.
I like all the locomotives Gilbert made.


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## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Nice looking layout. Love your wall shelf also.
> 
> Kenny, I love hudsons also. They are big engines. Northerns are bigger.
> I like all the locomotives Gilbert made.


I agree with you when you say you like all Gilbert locomotives. I guess that's why I keep buying them even ones I already have like most guys on the Forum. With me it's a "just gotta have one more" thing then another and so on. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

alaft61ri, nice 290 and layout. I really like that wall display. Looks like you have a good variety of AF engines and cars. 

Kenny


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## alaft61ri

Bought this a week ago forgot to take before pictures it was a mess put new wires cleaned painted only thing id didnt notice paint ran in front works good i like it this one is the 577 i believe if iam wrong let me know picked up another one it has the steam engine i think and has no light darker green in process of putting new wire only paif 10 for it the other 20


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## AmFlyer

That is the 577 billboard whistle with lights in the picture.


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## alaft61ri

Thankyou.


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## alaft61ri

This is the other one i think i will leave it alone just cleaned and put new wires. Sounds good


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## AmFlyer

Ok, here we go with one of the best liked Gilbert sets, the 5002T Circus set! I have a lot of pictures of this set.
Starting with the label it is in good shape with a clear, legible number. The set box was sourced from STAR and it has a (19)50 date stamp. It was shipped from Gilbert to the Pittsburgh distributor on the Boulevard of the Allies. Eight miles from where I grew up.
Next the paper. I am not sure why there are six inspection slips, The two flat cars and the engine may have has separate slips. The set was final inspected November 13, 1950. The engine worm drive tag is in the engine picture. The instruction book is a 1949 as expected. Note the separate instructions for the transformer and the flat cars.
The engine is like new and hardly ever run, I put it on my layout once. 
The 25W transformer is in perfect condition but not a transformer I would recommend using. The 643 flat cars have common loads, the coach is the unpainted version on a die cast chassis with steps. I posted two separate sale flatcars with rare loads back in September. All the flat cars are diecast metal.
I have two additional coaches purchased separately, The one on the right is darker in color, a known variation. I also have a painted 649 on a sheet metal chassis but I could not locate it for this picture. Finally I included a picture of a red 643
The set includes the cutouts but not the ticket book.
So, why do I own this set since it cost a lot of money? I was at the August 1989 DuPage train show, my wife had come along that day, she usually went to two or three a year. We headed to John Heck’s table and my wife started talking with his wife as they always did. John tells me he has a special set under the table he knew I would want. As he is unpacking the contents and I am having a seizure over the price my wife looks over and says “oh, I really like that one, it is so colorful. Why don’t you have one? John, we will take it!” To this day it is my second most expensive set. I did not even get a chance to negotiate the price!


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## alaft61ri

Those r really really nice does that one smoke i know some do and some dont.


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## alaft61ri

Also thankyou for showing them.


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## AmFlyer

None of the 353 circus engines were made with smoke and choo choo. A very few were made with wire handrails. If you see one smoking it was either modified by an owner or is a plastic Silver Bullet repainted as a Circus engine.


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## mopac

Nice circus train. Very cool.


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## AFGP9

Beautiful circus set Tom! Even more cool is the fact that your wife told you you should have that set. Now that is a great wife! 

I do have a question though. The red color of the engine is a darker shade than I am used to seeing. The ones I've seen were a brighter red. Is their more than one red color that I just didn't know about or is it the lighting when you took the picture? 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, the engine is not darker than other 353’s and I am not aware of any color variations of Circus engines. I try to take the pictures on sunny days in my office between noon and 3pm so they are all bright and similar. The illumination is all natural light. The pictures I take on my layout are differently illuminated since the layout is in a different part of the house. 
My office faces south, with west, south and east facing windows. Unfortunately when I took the Circus set pictures it was heavy overcast with a light drizzle outside (it never rains in Southern California?)
Here is another picture of the engine taken this AM in direct morning sunlight. Hope that helps.


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## AFGP9

Just as I suspected. It was the lighting. Thanks for the new post. Since I know you have several complete sets and some hard to find ones, I thought you might have a circus set with a different shade of red. It wouldn't have surprised me! 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Today we have another set, one I will call the mystery set because it remains a mystery what set this is and it is a mystery why I bought it.
First the set box, it was sourced from GAIR and has the year, 53, as part of the printing. There is no legible number on the label, There are additional printed comments on top of the box not seen on most other set boxes. Note the Inspected By and Date is stamped on the box lid, not on any enclosed packing slips.
There was only one cataloged set with the 356, it is the 5306T. This set had only two 655 coaches plus a circle of track, the 704 and the 1 1/2 transformer. It did not use this box size. There was an identical uncatalogued set, the 2H308. No idea why this number was used since the two sets were identical in all aspects. 
There is no uncatalogued set that has the matching contents of the 356, (2) 655, 606 and 607.That leaves several possibilities including that what I have is not the original contents of the set. I have pondered this and repeatedly examined the contents. The 356 is in pretty good condition as are the 606 and 607 cars, the two 655’s are not even remotely close in condition to the other items. All the cars and the tender have three spring trucks. Based on this and some other details my conclusion is what I have is an incomplete 6SP set with two 655 coaches that were purchased separately.
The contents of the 6SP set are 356, 606, 607, 20-702, 6-700, 704, 690, 747, 790, 40, 1 1/2. It is easy to imagine how the cardboard items did not survive (747 Cardboard Trestle set and 790 Trainorama.) The set box has the right dimensions to hold all these items. I have both a 747 and a 790 new in their OB’s. It is a real shame the 790 was not in the set when I bought it.
So, about why I bought it. First the 356 is in good running condition and the chrome is good. But the real items are the 655 coaches. Note in the picture they have brass coupler weights. I have examined these multiple times. These are original Gilbert items, not repro’s. Three have the indent with the patent number in it. After careful study I am 95% certain these were put on the cars at the factory. How could that have happened, did the assembly people find some unused brass weighted couplers at the end of 1953 production? I guess anything is possible.


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## alaft61ri

I like it like the whole set nice score. If your happy with it thats all that counts. Enjoy.


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## alaft61ri

Bought a black 625 tanker 15.00 when i went to a small train show the vender had all my parts i asked for know i can start replacing the white walls on my 290. One guy had a 353 circus most of the paint was off the tender some pieces missing on engine some paint missing on engine. He wanted 250. So i passed on it iwill wait. Hwre is a photo of the 625 tanker. Sorry for the phtos still cant turn them around.


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## AmFlyer

A black Shell tank car with 3 spring trucks! Are they held on with screws? The last black Shell tank car was made in 1948, long before the first 3 spring trucks were made in 1951 so these are likely not original.
The other more interesting item about this car is the Capacity of 800,000 pounds. All reported variations of the black car are 80,000 pounds, so this is an unreported variation. Just FYI, the early orange Shell cars had 8,000, later orange cars had 80,000. The silver Shell cars had both 80,000 and 800,000 pounds capacity. The first 625 Gulf cars still had 800,000, the 625G Gulf tank cars finally got it right with 100,000 pounds.
You were smart to pass on that Circus engine.


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## alaft61ri

Here is a photo of the bottom and side Thanyou for the info


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## AmFlyer

Someone either did a great job with those rivets or the frame was replaced. In any event you found a very uncommon variation with the markings.


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## alaft61ri

Ok thanks


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## cramden

Tom, thanks for the pictures of your two sets. The circus set is tough to find complete with the box. Are the tickets the only missing item? The 649 on the right in your picture is interesting in that the letters look to be thicker than the ones on the car on the left side. I don't remember noticing that difference before but never had two to compare side by side.

As far as the unknown set, I can't find the 6SP number in any books I have, only the 9SP which is close to the contents. The only different car is the 609 girder vs. the 607 that you have. I actually think the 607 work caboose goes better with the crane, maybe they ran out of girder cars and substituted the 607. The 747 and 790 aren't listed in the book specifically for the 9SP due to the fact of no original record of the accessories that came with it exists. All this I'm gleaming from Greenberg, so that could have errors. They also might have had found some complete sheet metal frames left over for the 655's to account for the brass coupler wheel sets. Lots of mysteries with this set for sure. One other thing I noticed is the one Tru-model box instead of the other 3 that are the 3/16" scale marked boxes. Which car came in that box?


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## cramden

Al, nice tank car find. I wonder why the 800,000lb variation isn't listed since the car is described in the tank car chapter in the Greenberg book along with the silver one, both from 1947. Most likely the frame was changed to account for the 3 spring trucks, the early plastic frames tended to warp. There was a die cast frame for the black 625 in late 1947 but the steps are longer than the later production die cast frames found on most tank cars. Still a neat car to have. Enjoy!


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, I need to find my painted variation of the 649 to compare all three. The entire printing above the windows is shifted about half a letter to the right on the right hand car. The printing below the windows is shifted about the same amount. I also just noticed I had the two cars reversed when I took the picture. One car is showing its left side, the other its right side. Also note the Circus set box was made by STAR and is numbered B1099, this is the 1950 set. Two different boxes were used for Circus sets, the other set box used is B1270 made by GAIR, these are 1951 Circus sets. 
The B1270 box with a 1953 date is the one my Silver Bullet set is in. It is larger than the box used for the 5306T cataloged set. The easiest explanation is I have a 5306T set and someone added the two freight cars. But then why the larger non standard box? The 6SP set would need the larger box because of the extra track and accessories it contained. The 606 and 607 are also the correct cars for the 6SP set. I ruled out the two 9SP sets (1953 and 1954) because they have been documented to contain no track or accessories. Unfortunately the seller could provide no provenance information about the set so it was not possible for me to know what was original to the set contents.
The 655's have sheet metal frames, one of the reasons I believe they are untouched originals. Were the frames diecast I would have assumed someone swapped the frames so they could have illuminated cars. The Tru Model box could not be original to one of the freight cars, this fact suggests the freight cars are not original to the set. It holds the 607. These exasperating details are some of the reasons I refer to this as my mystery set and move on.


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## alaft61ri

Thankyou cramden.


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## cramden

Thanks for the explanation. Is the 6SP in Tuft's book? I really should pick one up. I changed my post from die cast frames to sheet metal frames regarding the 655's after realizing your picture showed them as sheet metal. It is a confusing set, no doubt. Probably a lot of things related to Flyer we will never know. That has to be a large set box to fit the 790 in. I have one and the large envelope(box) that it's packaged in takes up a lot of space. I answered my own question about the Tuft's book. The 6SP is listed as a set that the 790 came in. I forgot about this.Great site by the way.
http://www.americanflyerdisplays.org/layout_in_a_box/trainorama.htm


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## AmFlyer

Yes, it is in the Tuft's book. I completely forgot about that website even though I have it bookmarked in my trains folder. Thanks for reminding me.
I have another set that contains the 790, and it is not a set listed on that site! I was planning to show pictures of that set last, after I went through all my remaining sets. That is because it has so many accessories it will take half a day to unpack it, take the pictures and repack it all.


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## AmFlyer

Cramden, one more observation about my mystery set. The Tuft's book has a section that is sorted by box number so one can look up a box and see what all Gilbert sets used that box. According to the book only the 1951 Circus set used the B1270 set box. So there should be no such thing as a 1953 B1270, yet here I have one. Another undocumented find.


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## cramden

There's always something new to learn it appears. That's why I don't subscribe to the "it didn't come that way."


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## rsv1ho

My photo of the day.

My son wired in the new finger boards and wiring loom, my hands just shake to badly anymore to do fine work like that. 

Surprised that the plug can go in either way. Had to mark the top with a magic marker.


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## cramden

rsv1ho, nice job on the engine.

Time for a picture. Here's my 334DC from 1950.


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## AmFlyer

The 4 wire plug can mate with the socket on the cab in either direction because the engine runs whichever way it is connected. I hope it runs great when you get it back on the track.
Nice 334DC. I never purchased any of the DC only engines or sets.


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## mopac

cramden, nice 334DC. I do not see many of those. I do not have any DC only locos.
That has probably been by design. I have a few HO DC transformers that would work.
I have run a few of my universal locos on DC just to see how they react. I see no difference.

rav1ho, your loco is looking nice. Good job.


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## cramden

Thanks guys. I bought it because I read that the DC versions ran better but I didn't notice any difference. I also had the freight cars to make the set.


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## AmFlyer

Here is a change of pace for the evening. I took some pictures yesterday of some of the newer Lionel produced engines. There are a lot fewer mysteries to solve with these engines. These pictures were taken late in the day in natural light so it was not very bright. As a result the depth of field is not great on some of the pictures. 
Lionel cataloged the first TMCC S gauge engines back around 2005. The first two turned out to be the last two because Lionel then released the Big Boy with Legacy and all future engines used the Legacy system. These two engines were a Mikado and a Pacific, one of each is in these pictures. Each was made in multiple road names. The internals of the ones running on my layout have been extensively modified to remove the disfunctional Seuthe smoke unit and replace it with a fan driven unit, add cruise control and add 4 chuffs/revolution.
The first picture shows a PRR Y3 under the coaling tower and an Erie Berkshire next to it. This picture in natural lighting shows clearly the effort Lionel put in to get the paint right. The Erie engines are a true black, the PRR engines are their unique green. The joke is it is made by putting 5 drops of green into a quart of black paint. The NYC Lightning Stripe diesel in the background is a gloss black. The Pennsylvania tender in the upper left of the picture is the same green as the Y3, it is attached to a PRR Mikado.
In the second picture an Erie Pacific is traveling on Line 1 past the yard area. The two PRR engines are “green”, the two Erie engines are black. Engine 2934 is moving slowly at about one foot every 6 seconds so I can shoot the scenes without blurring. That is why the smoke is traveling straight up out of the stack.
The third picture shows 2934 slowly steaming on past the TT pit pulling a 14 car coal drag. In the background is a newly released Santa Fe U36, these are great looking and running engines. The 622 behind it is one of the transition cars used to pull link coupler cars with KC engines.
The 4th picture shows 2934 behind the Gulf tank farm. It is on line 1, the other two tracks are freight yard leads. The one to the rear continues past the yard and makes a reverse loop within line 1.
The final picture is 2934 running slowly past the city area in line 1. The turnouts connect line 1 with the lower loop of line 3. These are #6 turnouts but the camera angle makes them look shorter than the are. The line 3 upper loop is on the viaduct. Look closely and a dog with its leg raised is at the tree in the park in the lower left. Probably belongs to that couple sitting on the park bench. In this picture and in the 1st picture small white posts with numbers are visible. These are the turnout numbers. When operating the layout with the iPad it is not necessary to know the turnout number but if I am walking around with just the Cab2 handheld I can key in SW27 for example and throw that turnout.


----------



## AFGP9

Outstanding Tom!!

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Kenny, I really enjoy operating the layout with the modern Legacy engines and a lot of original cars. The real issue is Lionel has some serious QC issues with the electronics. I bought 5 new engines in the last two months and only two of them work. Two need to go back to Lionel for repair or replacement, one is going to a service center for repair. I allow for this when I decide what to buy. Not like the old Gilbert engines when it comes to reliability and repair.


----------



## cramden

Great pictures Tom. Love the Y-3, I sometimes wish I had bought one when they came out.


----------



## AmFlyer

The Y3's are still available if you do a search. They are great engines and were made prior to the emergence of the latest quality issues. I am considering buying a second one but have not pulled the trigger yet.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is that PRR Y3 under way.


----------



## cramden

Not fair tempting me! Thanks for the picture.


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## AmFlyer

You would not believe how much smoke fluid I go through keeping all these fan driven smoke units full.


----------



## flyernut

As always, just beautiful!!!!..And great job on the tender to engine harness. If you need help with the small stuff, I'm willing..


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## alaft61ri

That is nice layout and love the engines great job.


----------



## kvlazer22

Absolutely amazing!


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks Kenny, I really enjoy operating the layout with the modern Legacy engines and a lot of original cars. The real issue is Lionel has some serious QC issues with the electronics. I bought 5 new engines in the last two months and only two of them work. Two need to go back to Lionel for repair or replacement, one is going to a service center for repair. I allow for this when I decide what to buy. Not like the old Gilbert engines when it comes to reliability and repair.


Tom if you read any of the "O" gauge guy's posts, they are constantly complaining about Lionel's electronics and the number of new engines that were purchased only to be sent back for repair or replacement. It sounds as if most have stopped buying Lionel because of so many electronic issues. 
I still say it is hard to beat the old reliable Gilbert AF engines not to mention ease and simplicity of repair. 

Even so I do like those locomotives in your posted pictures. Nice! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, I like the few new engines Lionel has released in S gauge. The electronics issues have become major with engines delivered in the last 12 months. Prior to that Lionel Legacy items were reliable in my experience. I read the O gauge posts on four different forums. The O gauge operators have something we do not have, a full product line of PS-3 engines from MTH as an alternative. In 5 years MTH has delivered one S gauge engine.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I didn't know MTH even made an S gauge engine. Yes it does seem like the "O" gauge guys have increased their complaints over the electronics and the slow Lionel service in the last 12 months. There still were many complaints before that but not like the last 12 months. 

Kenny


----------



## cramden

Here's my picture for today. A 1953 4wire plug plus 5th wire 336 from 1953. It also has the red dot on the fiber plug to correctly align the 4 prongs to the back of the cab.


----------



## AmFlyer

Another nice engine, looks near perfect.


----------



## kvlazer22

Beautiful engine! The 336 I recently acquired has the same setup as yours. Not nearly as nice though. Hopefully unlike my other engines, the date stamp will be in there.


----------



## cramden

Thanks guys, It has some small spots of paint loss but overall not to bad. Here's a picture of my other 336 from 1955. This one is direct wired. I don't run these all too much, I prefer the Hudsons. I think they were Gilbert's best looking post war engine. This one is missing the rear tender handrails.


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## AFGP9

Cramden as much as I have come to like the Notherns, especially since you guys have been posting so many of them, I am still at heart a Hudson fan too. 


Kenny


----------



## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> Cramden as much as I have come to like the Notherns, especially since you guys have been posting so many of them, I am still at heart a Hudson fan too.
> 
> 
> Kenny


Northerns, Hudsons, and K-5's!!!


----------



## AmFlyer

If I had to pick one engine it would be a Hudson, probably because that engine was part of the first set I received. But they do have a great look.
If someone is looking for a Northern keep in mind the new 6-47953 FlyerChief. These are beautiful engines, run conventional transformer, dedicated remote or with a Bluetooth app available for free. They have a fan driven smoke unit, good sound and a better speed range than the original Gilbert engines. As can be seen in the pictures they even have smoke at idle. The engine was stopped when I shot the pictures. Price wise they go for about $50 more than an excellent condition 336 with a large motor.
These engines are not made with original Gilbert dies but they look the same.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I have to say that is one nice looking locomotive!

Kenny


----------



## dc57

AmFlyer said:


> If I had to pick one engine it would be a Hudson, probably because that engine was part of the first set I received. But they do have a great look.
> If someone is looking for a Northern keep in mind the new 6-47953 FlyerChief. These are beautiful engines, run conventional transformer, dedicated remote or with a Bluetooth app available for free. They have a fan driven smoke unit, good sound and a better speed range than the original Gilbert engines. As can be seen in the pictures they even have smoke at idle. The engine was stopped when I shot the pictures. Price wise they go for about $50 more than an excellent condition 336 with a large motor.
> These engines are not made with original Gilbert dies but they look the same.
> 
> 
> View attachment 530004
> 
> 
> View attachment 530006
> 
> 
> View attachment 530008
> 
> 
> View attachment 530010


Very nice! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## mopac

There really was a 6015. Last one of its kind. It had elephant
ears added.

http://madisonrails.railfan.net/big4/6015-3_6.jpg


----------



## alaft61ri

Thats cool


----------



## alaft61ri

Tom those nice teally nice love the layout 

Al


----------



## alaft61ri

Bought these thursday at the hobby shop 25.00 just have to clean them up i will leave the link couplers on


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, thanks for the link to the real engine. I also appreciate all the comments, I try to find interesting items to post. 
The weather has been untypically dreary here, no sun. that is why I have not posted any more sets, it is hard to see the colors correctly on a rainy day.


----------



## AmFlyer

Al, those are two nice and uncommon cars, especially the painted 1953 version of the 632. They are not common at all. The downside is with the long 3 spring trucks the wheels rub on the underside of the body on curves. I have all my long truck hoppers reserved for displays.
The painted 651 is very nice as well. Both are great acquisitions.


----------



## AmFlyer

We got some sunshine between the storm clouds today so here comes the next set in the cue. I refer to the last set I posted as my mystery set. This set is no mystery, it is in excellent condition and all the parts and pieces are there, even the wires on the 690 track clip the first owner used to run the set.
If you look very closely just above “The A.” that is in the lower red stripe on the label the set number stamp, 48T, is faintly visible. Ignore the new engine box I used underneath the set box. The set box was sourced from GAIR and is dated 48. B1099 is the correct set box number for the 48T set. All the content boxes are present.
The engine and cars are in great shape, they appear to have little run time on them. All the trucks are slotted with brass weights except the 631 gondola. It has black weights and no slots. Makes me wonder if it is original to the set but I have no other reason to think it is not original.


----------



## kvlazer22

Love it Tom! All you examples and sets are is such great condition!


----------



## mopac

I love the Royal Blue. Cool locomotive. I have the set, no boxes.


----------



## kvlazer22

I have mentioned a couple times that I acquired a 336 at an auction and I finally got around to taking pictures of it so here it is! 

I have been playing with these AF's for around two months now and through all my research one model kept popping up that I knew I needed. The Northern. In addition, when I learned that any three digit engine ending in "6" meant a larger motor (sometimes means a larger motor...I am learning!), I definitely knew I needed a 336! I watched eBay for a while, learned the price ranges, and came up with one rule...it must have the number boards attached. I love fixing these trains so I don't care of their shape but reattaching number boards scares me. I am hoping someone tells me it's easy and explains the process, but for now they scare me. Anyway, I went to a Connecticut auction with my farther-in-law, who is a Lionel guy, and slammed the hammer on this 336. I know we had a good bash session a while back about auctions but I got it for $180 and with the 19% fee paid a total of $214. Oh yeah....it also came with four rolling stock but for the life of me can't remember which ones. One day I will unwrap them. Since I first started watching the 336 on eBay, the lowest price I saw was around $240 and that didn't include shipping; I was happy. 

The reverse unit clicks and after making a direct connection to the motor it chugs, smokes, and spins those wheels like a bat out of hell. I have full plans to completely make this thing shine like new so stay tuned for that restoration. 












































-Eric


----------



## alaft61ri

That is nice o e day i'll get one good luck when your done want to see pictures. 

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

The 336 looks like a good purchase. It has the large motor, both green jewels on the smokebox door, intact and legible number boards, perfect lettering and paint stripes and the pickups on the tender trucks. When this is restored be careful to retain all these original features. The lettering and paint will be the hardest but they are too good to remove.Of course protect the May 1954 stamp.


----------



## mopac

Looks like a nice 336. Cab numbers and graphics look awesome.
Nice price. I paid a ton for mine, paint is good on mine. Mine has the large
motor also. They are an incredible locomotive. I have 425.00 in
mine. Here is some pics of mine. Congrats on your score.


----------



## flyernut

One of my favorites, also the Hudson's and K-5's.. I bought my 336 right here on the for sale threads. I got the entire set, including cars, etc, for $170 plus shipping.I think the shipping was $20 bucks.. As to the number boards, they are easy to replace. What I do is to slightly file the edges of the small post the boards are staked to, then use JB Weld on the flat surface and let a little ooze out through the hole in the number boards. I then make a flat spot on the part that oozes out. That will keep the board on and then I make a small "X" on that. It looks like a stake mark, mimicking the original stake mark. A little part and you're good to go.


----------



## alaft61ri

This my 322 sit new york central i repainted it rbuilt smoker first time and i did the dime test on the rear trail truck. I think either flyernut or mopac told me about it. Needed to be adjusted this is my second time with the dry transfer. Iam waiting for the for tender. Its on order. Here is a photo.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I like your outdoor pictures, I will have to try that in the future.
Al, I hope that tender shows up soon and works first time!


----------



## alaft61ri

Thats the dry tansfer for thender sorry forcthe confusion everything works great. Love the pictures.


----------



## AmFlyer

I posted pictures of my 336 a couple of weeks ago, it is part of my K5357W. Probably best we do not go into what I paid to get that set!
Here is a 2007 C&O Mikado American Flyer by Lionel. Like all my early TMCC engines this has been modified to replace the Seuthe smoke unit with an MTH unit. These now really smoke and they also have smoke at idle as the last picture beside the roundhouse shows.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom, as usual a very nice TMCC locomotive. 
I forgot to mention the excellent Royal Blue set and boxes. Again, very nice. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Kenny, the modified TMCC engines are great for prototypical operation.


----------



## rsv1ho

I follow this thread every day and congratulate all that continue to post those marvelous pictures. 

Envy might be to shallow a word for those that posses those gems of yesteryear.


----------



## mopac

I enjoy this thread also. I too hope the guys keep posting. Its amazing these 70 year
old gems are still capable of running. Nothing made now will be working in 70 years.
Well, very little of it.


----------



## AmFlyer

I can personally vouch for the fact that some new engines do not even work on the day I get them. But I have a 70 year old 0-8-0 switcher and a 4-8-4 sitting under the layout that will happily chug and smoke their way around the layout whenever I put them on the track.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I enjoy this thread also. I too hope the guys keep posting. Its amazing these 70 year
> old gems are still capable of running. Nothing made now will be working in 70 years.
> Well, very little of it.


Mopac I agree. These modern Lionel/ American Flyer locomotives are advanced technology wise but I don't know about their reliability. Tom has alluded to that fact. The fact that the original Gilbert American Flyer 60-70 year old locomotives still run reliably is a testament to those Gilbert engineers. Even though my layout is TMCC equipped and I could run the newer stuff, to me they have way more electronics than I am comfortable with. 
Guys like Tom I'm sure will think otherwise. Me, I am comfortable with those 60-70 year old locomotives. I can repair them and keep them running. The modern TMCC types I know nothing about. Don't get me wrong. Thanks to Tom I am intrigued by them, especially with his great pictures showing how they look running! 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Here is a couple pics of my 282. One of my best and fastest
running locomotives. I got this when I was 5 years old. LOL,
had it awhile. I got it used. My uncle got it new in 1952. By
1955 he was tired of it and gave it to me. My dad sold it new
to my grandmother for my uncle's Christmas present in 1952.

















Since these pics were taken I have replaced the tender wires with a 4 wire Super Flex harness.


.


----------



## AmFlyer

That 282 has the long trucks so it should run well on Gilbert layouts.
I like both Gilbert engines and the modern engines that are full of moderately reliable electronics. The Gilbert engines look best and are in their environment on traditional layouts. The modern highly detailed engines that can creep along at 1"/second are at home on detailed, scale appearing layouts. At least in my opinion. 
I have 14 Legacy engines and 31 TMCC engines. About half of the TMCC are American Models conversions. As far as reliability, out of those 45 engines about 10% of them sent out for repair each year. I consider that very reliable since most of the repairs are associated with the smoke units such as fan failures, charring of the wick or the rare driver board failure. I chose not to do my own repairs on these engines. 
I do not find that much different than the percentage of my operating Gilbert engines that need brushes, springs and smoke unit repairs. Just that I do the Gilbert repairs myself and they are a lot cheaper to fix.


----------



## mopac

Tom, till you mentioned it, I had not realized, that 282's tender had 3 spring trucks.
Should travel over turnouts fine. Good spot.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today we have another set, this is an uncatalogued 1961 set, the 20218. This set is documented in both the Tuft’s set book and the Deger Sets book Volume III on page 114. Interestingly the two books have some different cars in the sets, entirely possible in less expensive uncatalogued sets. My set has a 3rd different variation in the consist makeup. The name of the set is “AMC-Pacific on Trestle.”
The set box has the set number ink stamped on both ends of the box along with the date code. No fancy printed labels for these cheaper sets. The date code is October 1961. The box is from INTERSTATE and has the 61 year printed on it along with the box number/size code of B4N178. The only other set also documented to use this box also contains the 747 trestle set. The Customer shipping information is stamped on the box. Their store price tag is still on the box but someone scribbled over it. The regular price was $39.95, the Wonder Fair price was $2?.88. I cannot read that one digit.
The set had a nice consist for the price. There are two cardboard trays that lift out that contain the engine and cars. Unfortunately the NH flat car is missing its load. The NYC car is the operating HayJector car. The 747 set and the track were also missing. No issue since I have a new 747 boxed trestle set and more new PikeMaster track than I know what to do with. 
This set has the 50W transformer. The engine and cars are in new condition. All the paper is present. Interestingly the bag of PikeMaster Track Locks is preprinted for 12 but the factory stamped “26 PikeMaster Track Locks” on the back of the bag, that is how many is need for the figure 8.


----------



## mopac

Another nice set Tom.

I have 2 Hudsons. A 326 and a 322. would like a 325AC. 
First 2 pics are of 326.


----------



## mopac

Next is 2 pics of 322. They are both nice Hudsons.

















Well, it looks like all 4 pics are of 326. I will try to find some pics of 322 tomorrow.
LOL, maybe I have 2 326. hope not. These pics are on 2 different SD cards. Which
means about one year apart. I have not had the top 326 but a few months.


----------



## mopac

I looked at my inventory list and I do not have a 322. So 2 326. I should have been more careful about that. I don't like 2 engines with same road number. May have to sell one. So those are 2 different locos above.


----------



## AmFlyer

But which one would you sell?


----------



## cramden

Great group of pictures guys, I have some catching up to do. Desk top died and had to replace the power supply again. It took longer to be delivered than the last time.

Mopac, two 326's aren't bad, I have some duplicate numbers, the more the merrier.

Tom, very nice sets as usual with your collection.

Nice job on the 336, looks great. Sorry if I missed some of the posts.


----------



## AFGP9

Gotta love those Hudsons mopac! 

Nice set you have there Tom! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Welcome back Cramden, I thought maybe you had disappeared to Hawaii on vacation! Seems like you may need some redundancy in your available devices.


----------



## cramden

I got a chance to catch up on some honey do promises inside the house. My wife has 2 lap tops, but I'm used to my old desk top. I'm sure when things get back to normal, when ever that might be, I'll most likely get a replacement. I didn't expect to have to wait as long as the part took to arrive, probably because all of the problems overseas and now here. I believe Hawaii now has shelter in place like N.J. so I'm happy to be home.


----------



## cramden

Lets see if I can follow flyernut and get a picture posted. This a rather common engine with an uncommon set of cars. Set K5418T from 1954. The 303 Atlantic with the Chestnut striped cars. I have the wrapper and the car boxes(packed away) but no set box. Picked this up from a friends friend. He was the original owner and his brother had the K5419T freight set with the same 303 Atlantic. I bought that one too but it was played with a lot more than this one.


----------



## AmFlyer

Wow! Those cars are in new condition!


----------



## cramden

Thanks Tom for the picture help.Still trying to get used to the new format. They are real clean. The hardest part is to find them without the brown paint grazed and cracked. These were as usual, not what I went looking for, they found their way to me. The fellow said he and his brother liked the freight set to play with as kids. Both the engines are in great shape but the freight cars are about very good. Needless to say, I paid quite a bit more for the passenger set but it was worth it even without the set box and transformer and track.I would be tempted to get a set box if I could without breaking the bank.


----------



## Enon49

Today working on the pond - more ideas than room - I think the hobo are moving in

Enon49


----------



## Big Ed

Enon49 said:


> Today working on the pond - more ideas than room - I think the hobo are moving in
> 
> Enon49
> View attachment 539619


That looks cool, different, that is for sure.
You just need a lot more of the blue things.
The dock looks great too.


----------



## Enon49

Big Ed said:


> That looks cool, different, that is for sure.
> You just need a lot more of the blue things.
> The dock looks great too.


Many more blue things - I am going to change directions later today
The hobos are coming
The blue things are glass half marbles for an aquarium


----------



## Big Ed

Enon49 said:


> Many more blue things - I am going to change directions later today
> The hobos are coming
> The blue things are glass half marbles for an aquarium


I thought they looked familiar, my dentist has a bunch of little fish bowls with one fish in each and some kind of plant.
I just went there last week. 
They do look nice. 
I wonder if you fill in the spots around them with a little of the blue aquarium gravel if it would make them look like waves?
Though they do look like waves now, but it would fill in the empty spots between them.


----------



## Big Ed

Though looking again, there is not that many empty spots in between them.
Did you use 2 different shades of blue? A dark blue and a light blue?


----------



## Enon49

Big Ed said:


> I thought they looked familiar, my dentist has a bunch of little fish bowls with one fish in each and some kind of plant.
> I just went there last week.
> They do look nice.
> I wonder if you fill in the spots around them with a little of the blue aquarium gravel if it would make them look like waves?
> Though they do look like waves now, but it would fill in the empty spots between them.


Blue Gravel - small - good idea
Thanks

Enon49


----------



## Enon49

Big Ed said:


> Though looking again, there is not that many empty spots in between them.
> Did you use 2 different shades of blue? A dark blue and a light blue?


All the gravel purchased at one time - Same number on bag - to make sure all was the same

The pond does extent across the track - the marble look is different there

Again, thanks for you help 

Enon49


----------



## mopac

Enon49 said:


> All the gravel purchased at one time - Same number on bag - to make sure all was the same
> 
> The pond does extent across the track - the marble look is different there
> 
> Again, thanks for you help
> 
> Enon49


----------



## mopac




----------



## mopac

This is a test. Seeing if I can post a pic in this new format. Sure did not see this
coming.









I think this will work.


----------



## Big Ed

Enon49,
It almost looks like 2 different shades of blue now.
Which would work too, as there are spots that will be shaded like around the dock and under the bridge.
If you had 2 different shades you could blend in some shady spots.
Just a suggestion, I think it looks nice now.
And it is different.


----------



## mopac

It did not work. I do not like the new format. Does not flow like the old did.
Thought I could post a pic. I was wrong. I a going to find a new train forum.
I will let you guys know what I find. This one will not work for me.
cramden, those passenger cars are awesome. very nice.
C ya
c

c


----------



## AmFlyer

mopac, an easy way to post a picture is click on the paperclip, it brings up a link to your pictures, select the ones you want, then pick thumbnail or full size, then Post. I always select preview before post but that is just a personal preference.


----------



## Big Ed

mopac said:


> View attachment 539640





mopac said:


> This is a test. Seeing if I can post a pic in this new format. Sure did not see this
> coming.
> View attachment 539641
> 
> 
> I think this will work.


It didn't work, but when I reply here I see the caboose.
Down the bottom left when your typing just click the insert image, (4th from the left) find your picture and drag and drop or pick the "click here" and do it like we used to.
Once you get used to it it is easier.
Yours are not showing as a picture to us.

See,
EDIT ,I TOOK PICTURE OUT.
Edit again, Hmmm,I took out the large picture but see a small one now?
Like they said too, clicking the paperclip works too.
I don't know what you did but Lee did the same thing in his post and got the same result as you did.
His is working now.
Edit a third time, I see how I can gt rid of the picture I will do that now.


----------



## mopac

I will try to post another pic. Ed, since you saw it I had to be close. I am sure it is easy
once you learn.

Now my pic is showing in my post above. What up that.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yesterday Cramden posted pictures of an unusual Gilbert set, a 303 pulling streamlined passenger cars with a chestnut colored band. That caused me to get pictures posted of a freight set that used the engine that normally pulled the passenger cars in Cramden’s set.
This set, cataloged in 1956 is the 5645TRH. The TRH indicates the set has a transformer and the engine has the diesel roar and electronic horn features. In addition this set included 4 #700 straight track sections and a 706 remote uncoupler.
The first picture is the catalog description page. The second picture shows the set box label with a legible set number stamp. This box does not have a date code stamped on it, apparently some were stamped and some were not. The third picture shows the box manufacturers stamp with the 56 date. The box number is as documented for this set.
The 4th picture is the set contents in the box, the next picture is the contents unpacked, all the number stampings are legible and strong. Note Gilbert used three different fonts for these stamps. Most boxes have the standard outline style letters. The caboose box uses an extended serif style font and the Horn Control box uses a solid sans serif font.
Next is some of the paper in the set. These are all two sided but I only show the front side.
The engine sits in a formed cardboard tray inside the corrugated wrap. The engine is in excellent shape and all the cars are like new. This set saw very little usage.
The horn control is a black cardboard tube in a black base and the uncoupler is the green version with a black control button.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I see the 977 caboose picture in your post.


----------



## Big Ed

AmFlyer said:


> Mopac, I see the 977 caboose picture in your post.


I see them in yours now.
Maybe because I posted the picture? I will go back and take it out and see what happens. In the mean time try to post a different picture like I told you it is easier then the other setup. Once you know.


----------



## AmFlyer

Big Ed, I find the new new system easier and faster to post pictures. I just click on the paper clip once for each picture I want to insert. I will try your way next. For clarity I post all my pictures to the MTF using an iPad, not a computer.


----------



## Big Ed

AmFlyer said:


> Big Ed, I find the new new system easier and faster to post pictures. I just click on the paper clip once for each picture I want to insert. I will try your way next. For clarity I post all my pictures to the MTF using an iPad, not a computer.


Mine are all with the computer, I wonder what Mopac is using.
Yours came out nice, the paperclip is just as easy. The other one I use is about the same thing.
No reason to find another RR site, once he figures it out he will see.
Everyone who has not dealt with the setup here now will go through a learning curve.


----------



## mopac

Tom, love your Silver Flash set. Very nice. Thanks for showing.

I am using a lap top with pics on a SD card.


----------



## Big Ed

mopac said:


> Tom, love your Silver Flash set. Very nice. Thanks for showing.
> 
> I am using a lap top with pics on a SD card.


Really it is just about the same as the old forum.
Just use the paperclip like you did before. Or I find it easier yet doing what I do.
I don't drag and drop just upload them.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Big Ed. I will try it and see which works best for me.


----------



## mopac

mopac said:


> Thanks Big Ed. I will try it and see which works best for me.


Ok, trying another pic. I used the paper clip. This should be a pic of a nice 293 I got from flyernut and Frontier cars.



.


----------



## mopac

I viewed pic in "Preview". It was there. But not in my post just above. It will show up in a bit.
I Still don't have it.

Woo Hoo, Its there now.


----------



## Big Bill

Hers one I wish Kato would make.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yep, its there Mopac.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> Yesterday Cramden posted pictures of an unusual Gilbert set, a 303 pulling streamlined passenger cars with a chestnut colored band. That caused me to get pictures posted of a freight set that used the engine that normally pulled the passenger cars in Cramden’s set.
> This set, cataloged in 1956 is the 5645TRH. The TRH indicates the set has a transformer and the engine has the diesel roar and electronic horn features. In addition this set included 4 #700 straight track sections and a 706 remote uncoupler.
> The first picture is the catalog description page. The second picture shows the set box label with a legible set number stamp. This box does not have a date code stamped on it, apparently some were stamped and some were not. The third picture shows the box manufacturers stamp with the 56 date. The box number is as documented for this set.
> The 4th picture is the set contents in the box, the next picture is the contents unpacked, all the number stampings are legible and strong. Note Gilbert used three different fonts for these stamps. Most boxes have the standard outline style letters. The caboose box uses an extended serif style font and the Horn Control box uses a solid sans serif font.
> Next is some of the paper in the set. These are all two sided but I only show the front side.
> The engine sits in a formed cardboard tray inside the corrugated wrap. The engine is in excellent shape and all the cars are like new. This set saw very little usage.
> The horn control is a black cardboard tube in a black base and the uncoupler is the green version with a black control button.
> 
> 
> View attachment 539648
> View attachment 539649
> View attachment 539650
> View attachment 539651
> View attachment 539652
> View attachment 539653
> View attachment 539654
> View attachment 539655
> View attachment 539656





AmFlyer said:


> Yep, its there Mopac.


Another great looking set Tom, so hard to find the Chestnut engines or cars that aren't beat up. Maybe they weren't as popular as the other more colorful offerings.
Nice picture mopac of your frontier cars with the 293, they look a lot better than when they're being pulled by the Franklin, I.M.O.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac that 293 pulling those Frontier cars looks great. I've always used a 302 to pull mine. That 293 looks a lot better.

Nice set there Tom especially since it is a Chestnut striped set.

Kenny


----------



## dc57

mopac said:


> View attachment 539685
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, trying another pic. I used the paper clip. This should be a pic of a nice 293 I got from flyernut and Frontier cars.
> 
> Mopac, that is a great picture and a beautiful engine! I love the Frontier passenger cars, but I never cared for the engine that came with the set. Seeing those cars attached to a another engine makes a huge difference! Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## mopac

Thanks guys. I think that 293 would look good pulling anything. I might still use an Atlantic to pull
the Frontier cars. Most of my Atlantics have link couplers. I do have my recent purchase of a 303.
Its the Frankenstein loco. Only the shell is a 303. The rest is a 5 digit loco. Its a mess, but does
run good. Only paid 15.00 for it and it does have knuckle coupler. LOL, I have removed the reverse
unit from tender and wired it to only run in forward, which is fine with me. It is a Frankenstein.


----------



## AmFlyer

Great pictures everyone! Lets keep posting pictures, the more we post the more will will learn how to make all the features in the new format useful.
I am still learning where specific items and information is located and retraining my eyes where to look for it on a quick scan. It appears the status name has been replaced by the hovering feature that shows a lot of detail. We all seem to be "Registered" with an American flag. My own screen name has a green dot in front of "AmFlyer". Wonder what that means.


----------



## mopac

I think the green dot indicates you are online and somewhere on the forum.
I wonder why our location does not show. Like me in Missouri.

I just found out if you put your pointer on a name to the left it shows location.
LOL, still learning

Still do not like the new forum.


----------



## flyguy55

At a recent train show a fellow dealer approached me saying he had a Flyer set I may be interested in.Expecting another Atlantic Set was about to enter my life I said I would come see.To my surprise he had this 1959 Nighthawk Set from 1959.It was far from perfect ... dirty...non running engine...several cars missing steps or brake wheels but still very complete.After a bit of cleanup got it running and smoking again..


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice set, it looks good in the picture. I cannot make out the number on the Hudson but assume it is a 21129 since it is a 1959 set.


----------



## kvlazer22

Very cool set! Love all the graphics.


----------



## AFGP9

Flyguy55, nice set. Any set containing a Hudson gets my attention running or not! That can be fixed. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

No set pictures from me today. However here are two accessories I use on layouts when I get around to building one. A 583A Electromagnetic Crane on the left and a 774 Floodlight Tower on the right.


----------



## cramden

Nice find flyguy55. Not a very common set to come across. I think the Hudson should be a 21130 going by the set contents. Too bad the Christmas trees aren't still with the flat car. Maybe in your travels you'll find a box of "TruScale" trees to complete the car.


----------



## cramden

AmFlyer said:


> No set pictures from me today. However here are two accessories I use on layouts when I get around to building one. A 583A Electromagnetic Crane on the left and a 774 Floodlight Tower on the right.
> 
> Good idea Tom, when I run out of engines and cars to post, I'll do some accessories.
> View attachment 539820


----------



## Kelpieflyer

Here's a photo of the 308 I rebuilt. Runs great.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice engine!


----------



## mopac

Nice 308. I might need to get one.


----------



## Kelpieflyer

Dad found it at an antique mall for 20 bucks. I didn't know they existed until he got it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Still no new set pictures on my part. I have more sets but I have not yet unpacked them from storage to photograph them. I have been spending time running trains on the layout and doing some tune-up tasks. 
Here is a picture I took back on 12/25. In the foreground on line one and one of the freight yard leads are a pair of SD70ACe’s, one UP and one NYC Lightning Stripe. They are pulling visible in the picture a 24039 Cookie Box, a 24065 NYC, a 980 B&O Timesaver and a 622 GAEX. Up above on line 3 are some Christmas cars from Lionel. I cannot resist Christmas items like this so I have them all. 
This was the first time I put them on this layout, in the past I used some them on one of my special built Christmas layouts using Gilbert track. These cars were all sold when Lionel was making the wheel gauge of the cars 1/10” narrow. Works fine on Gilbert track but they will not run on my scale layout without regauging every wheel set. A project for the future!


----------



## AFGP9

Nice 308 kelpieflyer. Gotta get me a 308 to add to my 300 series engines. 

Kenny


----------



## cramden

This is the other set that I bought with the K5418T chestnut band cars with the 303 Atlantic that I posted last week. This was the brothers set, the K5419T freight set with a 303 Atlantic also. This set had no boxes and was played with a lot more than the passenger set. A couple of things about this set that are interesting. All 4 of the cars are die cast which makes a rather heavy consist to pull. The 303 with pullmor pulls them fine but Gilbert offered the same 4 cars with the set 5435T that came with a 466 comet single motor PA. I believe that the PA might have a more difficult time pulling these cars.The 934 S.P. search light car is the uncatalogued version in 1954, the 928 N.H. log car is 1954 only instead of the C&N.W.pressed wood or die cast one, and the 945 work and boom car is the 1952 variation with the curved leg #9 vs. the straight leg #9, according to Greenberg's guide. Maybe some left over stock.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice set there Cramden. I have all those cars and the 303 but never knew they were from what set. Now I know. Like I keep saying, I always learn something from this forum. I'll have to check the "9" number on my 945 since I didn't know there were 2 versions. 

Kenny


----------



## cramden

I wasn't aware of the curved #9 either. Notice it also says american flyer whereas most say american flyer lines.There are so many variations it's hard to know them all. I'm always checking my books to find little differences.


----------



## AmFlyer

The K5419T was the first set my younger cousin received. I have one picture of it on his layout taken in 1956. Unfortunately the quality of the picture is such that the lettering on the cars is not legible. Assuming I still go back there in July (which is now looking much less than 50/50) I will see if he still has it so I can get some new pictures.


----------



## cramden

The strange thing about the set is that it could have come with all die cast cars that were all gray painted. Kind of boring. It would have been okay if the log car was the pressed wood variation, but still an odd set of cars IMO.


----------



## AmFlyer

Still no new set pictures but I got out some engines to photograph for now. 
The first two pictures are of my original and first Gilbert engine, a 1950 322AC. It was part of set 4611A that was not cataloged in 1950 but was sold to selected department stores with some slightly revised contents. I will cover that when I post the set pictures. The first picture is the stamp on the wrapper, the second is the engine. It is in pretty good shape considering the usage it got.
The next three pictures are of a boxed 1948 Hudson. Since the wrapper was in an outer box this was likely a separate sale item. The box end is stamped 322AC but the engine inside is stamped 322. This was not uncommon.
The final two pictures are the reason I posted these two engines together. Note the stanchions on the pilot. The 1948 is on the right and my 1950 is on the left. 1949 and earlier Hudsons have thick stanchions and 1950 and later Hudsons have thin stanchions. Hopefully the pictures are clear enough that the distinct difference is visible.


----------



## flyernut

I have 8 of those bad boys, one of my favorites...Nice.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I did not know abouy the thick stanchions . You can learn something new
everyday here. I have 3 Hudsons all thin stanchions. And of coarse I like the
thick ones.

Great looking Hudsons Tom.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

+1 on the learning. I missed the thickness differences. Always something interesting here.


----------



## cramden

Nice pair of Hudsons Tom. One can never have too many of them. Next to my 283 from childhood, they are my favorite steamers from Gilbert.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks for the comments. I was just looking for my 325AC to show how the belly bands had changed from the prior two but it was not where I thought it was. I have 7 Hudsons, an entirely reasonable number.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I chuckled out loud at your entirely reasonable number of Hudsons comment.


----------



## AFGP9

Never too many Hudsons. Just look how many flyernut says he has. I wish. As I have said in the past, my favorite engine. Didn't know about the thick/thin stanchions either. Like others have said and I have said, this forum is always good to learn something new from. Thanks Tom for your pictures and the stanchion information.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The Hudson is my favorite so I suppose the right number is always one more than I have.
Today I am posting pictures of a 5 wire 302 that is in exceptional condition. A number of these have been posted, the reason for this is to point out how I missed the obvious. 
The first picture is the stamped wrapper so this was likely sold as part of a set. Second is the engine and tender. The third is about why I posted this. Note the two vertical slots are visible on only the rear truck These are used to hold the sliding contact shoes on engines with the electronic steam whistle, like the 285 and 295.
When I unwrapped this I carefully noted both trucks were the same, no slots. Then I rotated the rear truck, put it on the track and took the pictures. I looked at the pictures and saw slots in the rear truck! It’s obvious, the slots are only on one side of the metal side frame to hold the sliding shoe. So both trucks are the same, the slots on the front truck are on the other side to hold the front shoe on the other rail.


----------



## cramden

This is set 5620T from 1956. There was no set box but the wrapper and the car boxes were all there. Doesn't appear to have been used often. The 928 was missing the lumber load and the brake wheel and the 977 caboose is the rubber man variation.


----------



## AmFlyer

The wrapper, boxes and equipment are all in LN condition. A nice set to have, especially with the rubber man version of the 977.
Looks like you and I were posting pictures at the same time.


----------



## cramden

Very nice 302 Tom. I have one from 1953, part of set # 5312T. Now I have to dig that one out and check, I'm sure I wouldn't have looked for that either.


----------



## cramden

Yes indeed. On a different note, I have 7 Hudsons, all link coupler ones except for the K325. Sold the 326 I had, guess I should look for one in the future.


----------



## AmFlyer

I also have 7 Hudsons, included are a 325, a K325 and a 326. That will have to suffice for now. I am hoping Lionel decides to make a full detailed Legacy Hudson like the Y3. If so my number of Hudsons will increase by more than one.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice set cramden. A rubber man 977. Nice to have. Tom that 302 is also a very nice engine but now I am forced to look at my 302's. Always learning. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

mopac said:


> I am starting this thread in hopes that it will catch on. About 10 years ago I was a moderator for a diecast forum and I started a thread like this one and it carried on for years. This will be a thread where the members will post one pic each day when possible. We all like pics. Most of us are here every day any way.
> I have noticed we have been having a lot of guests lately to the S forum. That is great. Maybe they will join so they can participate.
> You have to be a member to post pics. Its easy and its free. Simple idea. Post only one pic a day here. Pics can be anything AF. Try to have only one item in pic. Pic can be locomotive, AF accessory, or a car. If you run out of stuff to show start over.
> With your pic tell us a little about the item. Like where you got it, if it is working, what you need to do to it, anything. Remember, only one pic here each day. Just so the thread will last longer. I love pics and hope you do also. I will start it off with next post.
> 
> 
> And of coarse you can post more than one comment each day. Fly/onel items can be posted.


Hope fully i did it right. 
Al lol


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon




----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

My daily posting.


----------



## mopac

alaft61ri said:


> Hope fully i did it right.
> Al lol


Al, when you get a choice of "thumbnail or Full Size" click on Full Size.

Broke, that is a very nice photo. Your layout is looking good. 2 nice cars.
Love the 977.


----------



## alaft61ri

Ok i saw that but wasnt sure to press that thaks again.

Al


----------



## alaft61ri

i picked up another one of these. Rewired cleaned new rubber garments and right spacers. Didnt paint it good shape. Now how come i can only see so manny of my photos when before i can pick any one i want.


----------



## flyernut

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> My daily posting.


Hi Fred!!!


----------



## alaft61ri

Isaid hi to.


----------



## cramden

Nice pictures Fred and Al, keep them coming.


----------



## mopac

Al, have no idea why you can not see all your pics. Your pic posting skills are
much better now.


----------



## AmFlyer

Al, when I click on the paperclip to add pictures to my post a small dialog box with three choices appears. The choices are Take Photo, Photo Gallery and Browse. I select Photo Gallery and then all the pictures stored on the device I am using (iPad)are accessible. If you are using a computer then any pictures on removable drives (USB or SD Card) are also accessible.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

flyernut said:


> Hi Fred!!!


Hello Loren! I trust everything is well with you!


----------



## alaft61ri

I figured it out when i hit paper clip then i hit third symbol and a drop box comes up then i press that and all my pictures come up i use my phone all the time instead of computer. Thanks 

Al


----------



## alaft61ri

These are the 3 whistle chims i bought 2 i repainted wired new garments and spacer the other one cleaned wired garments.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice Al! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Today we have some pictures of the number 35 Brakemen With Lantern set. These were made from 1950 through 1952 and are hard to find in the OB like this.


----------



## AFGP9

Not only are the brakemen nice but the box is equally as nice, crisp and no color fading. I notice the date on the box is 1951. I got boxes newer than that in not so nice condition! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

That box means they are either 1951 or 1952. I got this item in 2009.


----------



## cramden

That's a lot of billboard whistles Al, nice job on the re-do's. 

Great looking brakemen set Tom, Doesn't appear to have been used at all. The box is in terrific shape.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Cramden. It appears to be unused.


----------



## cramden

Here's the 5 wire 302 that I mentioned the other day when you posted yours. This is out of set 5312T I found years ago. The box is poor and the set number is no longer visible but the 53 is still legible. The condition of the car boxes are fair with one missing for the 641. The best part of the set was the wrapper and the overall condition of the engine and cars. The wrapper says 302AC and I think Tom's does to. Other than the 623 and the 641 having each one replaced link coupler, I felt it was worth getting.The engine runs great although I confess I haven't even cleaned any of the set. A couple of things to note, this has no slots in the three springs like Tom's and it is the American Flyer Lines lettered tender. The last picture is of the fence that was with the set. I wonder if it went around someones Christmas tree.


----------



## cramden

Here's the cars from the set and the fence.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a very nice set Cramden. I wonder why the 623 and 641 each have KC's on one truck? My 302 is also in a 302AC wrapper, that was pretty common. What are the last two pictures?


----------



## AFGP9

Nice set Cramden. The KC on one end and link on the other end on 2 of those cars is a little strange. I can see maybe one car being done that way and used as a transition car to pull KC cars but 2 of them? I notice you got some of the white stuff on the links. Never understood why only on the link types. Sometimes on wheels too. Maybe somebody can enlighten me. Seems like when I run across link cars at auctions around here they always have it on them. You would be surprised the amount of people who don't know what that stuff is and won't bid. Fine by me because I won't hesitate. I gotten several link cars for little money. 

Kenny


----------



## Sagas

It was part of the 20435 "Meteor set" (1958). For some reason I have the carton for the set and one car (Mobilgas) but not the rest. Maybe I will come across the rest in future.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice 1958 Pacific that is rarely seen. Take good care of that one.


----------



## flyernut

Just a few of my 633's....


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice nice grab


cramden said:


> That's a lot of billboard whistles Al, nice job on the re-do's.
> 
> Great looking brakemen set Tom, Doesn't appear to have been used at all. The box is in terrific shape.


Thankyou plus i have two more on my layout. When i make my layout bigger i will use two of them.


----------



## cramden

To answer a couple of questions about the set I posted, Tom, the last two pictures are of what I think might have been a homemade/store bought fence that might have been part of a Christmas village set up that was in the set box when purchased by me. I have seen similar types of fence in old photos of Christmas villages on the web. That's just a guess. I'll leave it with the set.

Kenny, the one car probably had a broken link coupler and was replaced with the knuckle. That makes it impossible to pull all 3 cars unless another car has a knuckle on one end. There was one link coupler plastic piece minus the post in the bottom of the box so at some time the replacement took place.The white residue is from a mold release agent that Gilbert used in the manufacturing of the plastic parts, according to what I've read. I haven't gone over the set since I bought it. But, it's still unpacked so I'm sure I'll get to cleaning it up before I put it away.

What a great engine to have Sagas, an uncommon engine that usually commands a high price if you can find one. Hope you can find the rest of theset.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> That is a very nice set Cramden. I wonder why the 623 and 641 each have KC's on one truck? My 302 is also in a 302AC wrapper, that was pretty common. What are the last two pictures?


Those last 2 pictures show a belt of 7.62mm, FMJ belts for a M-60 machine gun, AKA the "hog" or "pig".


----------



## alaft61ri

flyernut said:


> Just a few of my 633's....
> View attachment 540681


Very nice 633 nice shape. Happy easter stay safe.
Al


flyernut said:


> Those last 2 pictures show a belt of 7.62mm, FMJ belts for a M-60 machine gun, AKA the "hog" or "pig".


Dont know what your talking about didnt see any photo of a machine gun.


----------



## flyernut

alaft61ri said:


> Very nice 633 nice shape. Happy easter stay safe.
> Al
> 
> Dont know what your talking about didnt see any photo of a machine gun.


If you scroll back several posts, you'll see 2 pictures of a roll of fencing, I was being funny....


----------



## mopac

Al, I think he means that fencing that cramden showed. It does kinda look like shells in a belt.

Sagas, that is one fine locomotive you showed. Very nice. Looks like a 293.


----------



## alaft61ri

flyernut said:


> If you scroll back several posts, you'll see 2 pictures of a roll of fencing, I was being funny....


Ok how was your easter.


----------



## flyernut

alaft61ri said:


> Ok how was your easter.


Fine, thank you, and I hope your's was just as glorious.


----------



## AmFlyer

Flyernut was being very creative early in the morning.


----------



## flyernut

A belt looks like this...


----------



## Sagas

Thanks for your comments on my previous post. I suspect that I won't find the rest of the set since for some time the trains were stored at my mothers house. She was starting to suffer from the onset of dementia and possibly either gave them away or threw them out along with a few other pieces I am missing.

Below are the 46' versions of the K-5's. The 312 still has the bellows smoke unit and both run extremely well.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice pair of engines. You should get some 1946 production track to display them.


----------



## flyernut

Sorry about your Mom.


----------



## alaft61ri

flyernut said:


> Fine, thank you, and I hope your's was just as glorious.


It was strange not getting together with everyone.


----------



## kvlazer22

Here are the reasons for adding a knuckle coupler to my current restoration project on my #302AC. I remember as a wee Eric being obsessed with these and never having an engine to pull them. I use to twist tie them my #283. The only engines I received from my grandfather was a #283, #300, and #302AC. Now knowing what I know about AF's I am wondering why he had these and if there was another engine that didn't make its way to me. With both my grandfather and dad passed it may be a mystery that will always be.

Anyway, I can't wait to hear what this forum can tell me about them. Could you buy these separately or were they only part of a set? I would love to hear what engines might have came with these. Also, am I missing a baggage car?

Does anyone know of any diagrams or publications that has part numbers for these?

-Eric


----------



## flyernut

I have very little knowledge of the heavy-weight cars, probably AmFlyer or Cramden would know the correct answer. My best guess would be that these cars would be pulled by a 322 Hudson.


----------



## AmFlyer

The KC green painted heavyweights without silhouettes were made in 1953 and 1954. You have a 283 which is a KC engine, that engine will pull these cars. There are 3 green heavyweights, the combine is 953. There is a green painted baggage car, 951G, that was sold in the 4 car set. The baggage car is the same style as used with the 950 and 955 cars. The 1954 Meteor set was sold with a 293 engine. I do not know of a parts diagram, what are you looking for. Sites like PortLines lists the pieces like screws.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is a picture of a new, never run 952.


View attachment 540814
View attachment 540814


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is the matching 951G baggage from the Meteor set.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sorry, here is the 952 picture.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is a new, never run 953 combine. My Green one seems to be hiding from me but the red one was found. I have new sets of both the red and green 95X series Heavyweights. They are very nice cars and since all the 95X cars are painted they are hard to find in E to LN condition.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> Here is the matching 951G baggage from the Meteor set.
> 
> 
> View attachment 540815


For some reason I have that baggage car, don't know why....


----------



## kvlazer22

AmFlyer said:


> Sorry, here is the 952 picture.


Wow, these are all beautiful. Mine are probably one grade down from yours...agree? Hahahha

I just caught myself with the knuckle coupler on the #283 (the 3 noting it is a knuckle coupler version)....sorry about that. However, my 283 definitely didn't have a knuckle coupler. I wonder how why that conversion happened?! Looks like another mystery that may never be solved. At the moment I don't have this engine. It is still boxed up in my parents basement.

It is interesting that my window shades are in every window and yours only has them on the passenger seat windows? Could this be another cool variant find?


----------



## AmFlyer

The two windows w/o the shades on the 952 are the restrooms at each end. If I turn the car to the other side it will be the same as yours, they have different window arrangements on reach side just like the prototype.


----------



## kvlazer22

I was getting at that all my windows, besides the doors, have the off white shades in them and this goes for both sides. I like the look of yours better...looks more detailed with the lacking shades.


----------



## AmFlyer

The Pikes Peak cars I own, 652 and 962 look like this. In the two pictures below, call the top one side A and the bottom picture side B. Side A has three single windows w/o shades. Side B has two single windows with shades.


----------



## AmFlyer

Now, if anyone is into really minor variations note that the Pikes Peak below the windows is the same font on both cars. The red car has more kerning between the letters making the name wider. It is the same on both sides of the cars. The red car has its OB with the original pale tan Gilbert wrap around the car to protect the paint from box abrasion and the rectangular cardboard coupler protectors.


----------



## cramden

Very nice pair of K-5's Sagas. I think all of the engines without the smoke in the boiler are some of the smoothest runners.

Beautiful cars Tom, it's amazing that so many toys stayed in such fantastic condition thru the years.


----------



## kvlazer22

Thanks Tom....those are amazing examples and I am going to mimic your window setup.


----------



## alaft61ri

Those r nice cars boys.


----------



## alaft61ri

Also here is and automatic unloader car. Also here is the start of making my lay out larger.


----------



## AmFlyer

Is that an orange coupe on the 715 unloader? Now you will have enough room for a gentle grade for a second level.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Now, if anyone is into really minor variations note that the Pikes Peak below the windows is the same font on both cars. The red car has more kerning between the letters making the name wider. It is the same on both sides of the cars. The red car has its OB with the original pale tan Gilbert wrap around the car to protect the paint from box abrasion and the rectangular cardboard coupler protectors.


Nice cars Tom. If you hadn't pointed out the lettering difference I don't think anybody would have noticed. I know I wouldn't have. I don't have any red ones yet but always looking. Always wanted a couple to make a Christmas red and green train with. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Right Kenny, we all need a set of red heavyweights. The link coupler ones are easier to find in excellent condition and are cheaper. All that is needed is to change one coupler on a 651R baggage car for a transition piece. The tuscan painted red passenger cars are out there but ones like I pictured are likely $900 for a set of four. It is hard to find a tuscan 954 Grand Canyon because a lot of the tuscan passenger sets came with the 978 action observation.


----------



## alaft61ri

AmFlyer said:


> Is that an orange coupe on the 715 unloader? Now you will have enough room for a gentle grade for a second level.


Yes it is orange coupe. Not sure if iam going to use the snow moutain. Have different idears. Taking it slow .


AmFlyer said:


> Right Kenny, we all need a set of red heavyweights. The link coupler ones are easier to find in excellent condition and are cheaper. All that is needed is to change one coupler on a 651R baggage car for a transition piece. The tuscan painted red passenger cars are out there but ones like I pictured are likely $900 for a set of four. It is hard to find a tuscan 954 Grand Canyon because a lot of the tuscan passenger sets came with the 978 action observation.


----------



## alaft61ri

These r mine.


----------



## alaft61ri

alaft61ri said:


> Yes it is orange coupe. Not sure if iam going to use the snow moutain. Have different idears. Taking it slow .


What do u mean by gentel grade secon level.


----------



## mopac

I am drooling here guys. I do not have any red or green passenger cars.
have bid on a few but I always lose. What are my Hudsons to pull? I did
some research the other day and Hudsons did pull freight late in their life.
Like after the railroads went to diesels. Alco PAs and EMD E8s.


----------



## alaft61ri

I also have 3 green ones to


----------



## AmFlyer

There are two very nice red heavyweights in the pictures!
Do you realize how rare an orange coupe is???


----------



## alaft61ri

No actually i paid 24.00 for the whole .


----------



## AFGP9

Tom you are so right regarding the price of those tuscan heavyweights. The red ones are not too far behind. I have watched them on eBay from time to time and at train shows. It seems the prices of those cars never change. Always expensive for nice ones. In my opinion buying anything less than a C8-C10 is a waste of money. Just my opinion. Those cars show scrapes and wear marks way too easily to buy anything less. Now if there were a way to repaint those then maybe. Of course we all want the best but then we have to pay the price or get lucky and find a deal. Never found a deal on any of them yet. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

alaft61ri said:


> These r mine.
> View attachment 540869
> View attachment 540871


----------



## AFGP9

Nice cars al. Don't suppose you would want to share just 2 of them would you? lol

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I agree that the very top quality pieces tend to hold value better, unless Lionel makes a reproduction like they did with some of the passenger sets. Lionel decided not to rerun the 952, 953 and 954 cars. Rather Lionel redesigned them with more detail and made two additional car configurations. These in no way compete with the Gilbert originals. I have a 10 car set in PRR livery, a 6 car set runs on the layout. The problem with them is the rolling resistance is too high. Lionel needs to study how AM uses needle point axles and low friction power pickups.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I really agree the Lionel cars are really bad rollers. Terrible. The problem is the brass power pickup strips that rub the axles are too thick. If you bend the strips down away from the axles the cars become great rollers. You won't have lights but they roll great.


----------



## AmFlyer

To let everyone in on the comments and since we are in the Photo of the Day thread here are pictures of the new Lionel S gauge heavyweights. This is the observation, the cars look good and are well detailed and painted. They do not roll freely because of the lack of needlepoint axles and the resistance from the axle wiper Electrical pickups. These wipers will pass at least 5A when only 250ma is needed, they are robust. No lights is not an option for me so I just pull them with a high performance engine.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looking at the third picture there is one more key item visible. Just above the three wheels at the bottom of the picture a gap is visible between the metal axle attached to the wheel and the black plastic axle. This gap is about 1/10" and is the amount all Lionel Flyer wheels were incorrectly gauged up until 2019 production when Lionel corrected it. I have regauged over 100 axles like this so they will run on a scale layout. Those of you using Gilbert or GarGraves will never notice.


----------



## alaft61ri

Sorry nope lol. I saw a few on ebay some r autions some r certain price.


----------



## mopac

Nice looking heavyweights. That is a different power pickup. Not as stout.
I bid this week on some UP heavyweights. I lost. They were Lionel.
Wanted them to put behnd one of my UP AF northerns.


----------



## Mikeh49

Are there pickups on both trucks? With that setup, I would think you only need one, especially if there are constant lighting electronics. If you did not mind molesting them, you could snip off some of the strips. Gunrunnerjohn can help with the electronics. Are they LED lighting?


----------



## AmFlyer

The same pickups are on both trucks. They can be bent down but changing from four per truck to two per truck does not change the rolling resistance enough to make a real difference. American Models makes the same heavyweights. AM's will start rolling from a stop on a 2% grade. Lionel's, which are heavier brake to a stop if I push them down a grade. These all have small incandescent bulbs. I am pulling six of them with an American Models E8, highrail wheels and traction tires. Any of Lionel's Legacy engines will pull them.


----------



## AmFlyer

It seems lately I always have a story when I post pictures. So here is today’s. I had to go up in the attic because the backup battery in the security system panel failed. While I was up there I looked around for something easy to find and interesting to post. I saw about ten of these unopened Lionel shipping boxes that contain “convention” cars I order when I attend the train conventions like S Fest, TCA and TTOS. I grabbed two that looked interesting and opened them for the first time. Generally the convention cars have more detailing in the decorations. I think these two look good.
The last picture is what the shipping cartons look like for those who do not usually order these special cars. The actual car box inside is the original small size blue and yellow version that came after the red boxes. The current blue and yellow boxes are about 1/4” bigger in all three dimensions.
The first picture is the car for the TTOS 1998 convention held in Pasadena, Ca.
The second picture is the car for the 2001 TCA annual convention.


----------



## kvlazer22

These are great Tom! I love the Cotton Belt car. Thanks for taking the time to put these pictures and stories together.


----------



## mopac

Nice looking cars Tom. I have a few of those Cotton Belt Blue streak in HO. I almost bought some convention O scale cars from a dealer this week. He had them priced right. Its amazing you can find brand new cars in boxes from the 90s. Love the Frisco car also. Frisco was big in this little town I live near. The town has an old Hotel called the Frisco. It was a boarding house for years. Empty now. BNSF uses the old Frisco tracks now. This little town used to be a railroad town. They had a yard and steam engines would overnight here. Till a boiler ran a little low on water and exploded. Mo Pac had tracks here and they had a passenger station here. UP uses the MO Pac tracks now. The station has been torn down but I remember it. I moved here in 1974 from Texas. Many years ago this little town was a resort town. It had a lot of hotels, Its on the Meramec River. Rich people
would ride the train from St Louis. Prostitution moved in and that pretty much killed the town.
I live about 1 mile from the town. I am unincorporated (no town).



lve


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## AmFlyer

Thanks for the comments. I really did not know any of the history of the Frisco.
The other part of the reason I got the cars out was a few days ago I quick assembled a 60”x120” loop of track on the floor of my office so I could test some Legacy engines in conventional mode. There is no easy way to do that on my layout. Of course now that the track is there I did not want to take it apart and I was tired of just watching the engines. Stay tuned, I suspect a few more cars will find their way here.
The smoke at idle from the Santa Fe U36 is faintly visible as a tall plume.


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## Sagas

This "Pathfinder" set was given to me as a birthday gift back in 59'. It is complete with all boxes, paperwork and accessories (just not enough room to put everything out at once). Note that the 24113 Container Gondola is not part of the set but was probably a throw in when purchased. The box has two stamps, one as shown and at the other end 24112 which was most likely an error and not to my knowledge a valid number. It has been put away for quite some time and only been run a few times since I've never had the space to make a proper layout until now. It has the 21139 which was later changed to the 21140 (nylon wheels and no whistle). Unfortunately the photos are not the best due to the lighting. The set has stayed in pretty good shape considering all the moving around over the years and when I finally complete my layout will be back in action.


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## mopac

Nice loop. I got nothing right now.


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## mopac

Nice set Sagas. Really nice. Expensive loco and cars. They look new.


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## AmFlyer

Sagas, that is an unbelievable set and a more unbelievable birthday present! The consist is correct as pictured. The 24113 was not included with the set. 24112 is correct as a Gilbert inventory number for a 24113 when packaged for separate sale. That confirms this specific 24113 was not packaged in a set, but rather sent to a retailer as a separate sale item.
Despite the fact this is a 1960 set and it was cataloged with a 21140 Northern, all reported examples of this set contained a 21139 engine.


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## Sagas

Thanks for the additional info Tom. Since I had no reference for the 24112 number I assumed it was an error. There is a 59' / 60' advertising mailer (one page - reversible) included with the set which makes sense as my birthday is in September. I guess you'd consider me a spoiled rotten child but at that time I just considered myself lucky. Barry


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## mopac

I guess I was kinda a deprived child. All I ever got was a used and abused
282 set. I thought it was the neatest train set in the world. It meant so much to
me I still have it.


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## Sagas

Mo-pac, any train set given to a child at that time was always a joy to behold. My first set was a 5301T (which I still have) and I remember when it was first set up around the Xmas tree I wired it incorrectly and it shot off the track into the middle of the Livingroom. A lesson learned. Barry


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

Very nice set! Many of you are very fortunate. As I grew up, I never lived in one place for more than two or three years be cause my dad was in the Army/Air Force. We left many things behind. As a result I don't have any things from my childhood. I am envious. So, I buy old used AF stuff. I did have an AF set in my youth but it is long gone. Thanks and please keep on posting!


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## AmFlyer

Barry, are there any markings/stamps on the 20545 set box? I was looking for clues on the set manufacture date. Normally in those years the box supplier put the manufacture date of the box in their stamp. As you know this set was cataloged in 1959 and 1960. The engines in the 1960 sets were apparently all 1959 21139 so that is not an indicator. The most puzzling item is the transformer. The 22030 is correct for the sets but the transformer box in the picture was date stamped March of 1961 by the Gilbert factory. Everything else visible is consistent with a September 1959 gift. The flyer you mentioned is also interesting, does it have an M number in small print on it?


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## alaft61ri

Very nice i like the brown very sharp.

Al stay safe


Sagas said:


> This "Pathfinder" set was given to me as a birthday gift back in 59'. It is complete with all boxes, paperwork and accessories (just not enough room to put everything out at once). Note that the 24113 Container Gondola is not part of the set but was probably a throw in when purchased. The box has two stamps, one as shown and at the other end 24112 which was most likely an error and not to my knowledge a valid number. It has been put away for quite some time and only been run a few times since I've never had the space to make a proper layout until now. It has the 21139 which was later changed to the 21140 (nylon wheels and no whistle). Unfortunately the photos are not the best due to the lighting. The set has stayed in pretty good shape considering all the moving around over the years and when I finally complete my layout will be back in action.
> View attachment 541038
> 
> 
> View attachment 541039
> 
> 
> View attachment 541040


Very nice like it.


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## AFGP9

Tom nice heavyweight! It looks as though the axle wiper electrical pickups are petty substantial in comparison to an AF car. Dose that wiper exert much pressure on the axle? Is it thicker than the Flyer ones? 
Love those convention cars. Very nice. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Sagas amazing Pathfinder set. That whole set, including the locomotive, has some pretty pricey cars when up for sale on eBay. I never got that kind of a birthday present. My dad said I didn't need another train or any more cars because I already got my set for Christmas. He never understood the concept of adding to my train set. It was a one and done thing to him. I was just glad to get that one set. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, that observation is a current production "American Flyer by Lionel" car. Gilbert passenger cars did not use axle wipers. The electrical pickup was by conductivity of the axle end to the truck sideframe then to the truck rivet. As delivered the brass pickups exert pressure on the axles plus the contact area is wide further increasing the friction. Careful adjustment can reduce the pressure but not eliminate it.


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## AmFlyer

For comparison, here are pictures of the competing American Models version of the same PRR observation car. They both look good but in real life on the layout I think the Lionel version looks better And has a bit more detail. The key difference is in the pickup. Note in the closeup of the truck there is a fine brass spring wire. This exerts at least as much pressure as the Lionel brass but since it is a fine round wire contacting a round axle the contact point is, well, a point. So the rotating resistance is trivially small. With this pickup and their needle point axles the cars will start rolling on their own on a 1% grade.


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## Sagas

Tom, have been outside most of the day. I have two boxed 22030's and somewhere down the line they were switched. Below is the one I believe that should be in the set along with the carton numbers. The folder number is D2146 the set shot is from it.

Thanks for all your comments. I am lucky to still have it. Barry


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## Sagas

One thing I may have misunderstood Tom. If you were referring to the carton seal like the transformer the small stamp indicates 58'. I suppose they ordered them in volume without the printed set number and just used the sticker to indicate what set was inside. Barry


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## AmFlyer

Barry, that is most of what I was asking about. The close up of the set box label shows the number B-2N191. That box number was used only for 1959 sets. All reported 1960 versions of the 20545 set used box number B2N620 which is a larger but shallower sized box. The set box was sourced by Gilbert from INTERSTATE so that should be stamped somewhere, likely on the bottom. Also, looking at the flyer, the retail price is $72.50 so this is a 1959 flyer. In 1960 the retail price was raised to $74.98.
The transformer box you most recently posted was sourced from GAIR. The year 59 was stamped by GAIR when they made the box, so this is the correct 1959 production 22030 transformer for the set. The transformer box in the picture with the set was dated March, 1961 by Gilbert in the factory. On the bottom left of that 22030 box are the letters CFA, C is the month, March; FA is the year, 61.


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## Sagas

Thanks Tom. My reference material does not go into that level of detail. The 61' transformer was purchased much later with a few other pieces. It all makes sense since I received it on my 10th birthday so now you know how ancient I am. Regards, Barry


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## AmFlyer

We are of the same vintage. You have kept that set with great care, you should run it around the track once a year.


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## AmFlyer

Today there are three more convention cars to look at, well two convention cars and a nice black regular production car. The 48300 SP Overnight boxcar was made by Lionel in 1987. I think it looks really good on a layout. It was made in the early years of Lionel AF production, not very many were sold but since they look good they do not often show up for sale. It is in the original white box with the red stripes.
The 48498 WP Feather boxcar was made for the 1996 TTOS Convention. It has the full size feather, unlike the 48388 Feather boxcar made by Lionel in 2010 which has the small feather to the left of the door and is orange. Lionel also made a Feather boxcar in 1988 which I have somewhere, I am not sure of the color or feather size. This car is in the red Original box.
The 48204 D&RGW was made for the 1997 TCA convention. It also came in the red version of the OB.
What I rediscovered while looking for these cars is first, I have a lot more of them than I remembered, second with two exceptions I bought two of each one. My plan was I would open one and save the second as new unused. Third is I have a lot of them on my inventory I have yet to find after looking through 36 of the storage crates.
Here are the pictures, the train on the test track is getting longer.


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## AmFlyer

Ok, about the 1988 WP Feather boxcar, # 48307 I mentioned above. It turns out that it and several convention cars I am looking for are hiding on my layout. They are coupled up to the NP Challenger in a 13 car freight that has been staged in the hidden storage yard at the minus 6" elevation. It has been parked there for several weeks. so without further delay here it is for comparison with the 48498 convention car pictured above. I like them both. The 1988 Lionel cataloged car has three colors of stampings on the brown car.


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## alaft61ri

Real nice like your layout.

Al


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Al. I try to stage the pictures on different parts of the layout for variety.


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## mopac

Very nice cars you are showing. I do like the Lionel cars..


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## AmFlyer

Recall a month ago I posted some pictures of Gilbert service items like these three boxes of replacement bulbs. I reposted the picture of the 5 digit boxes. While looking for more of my Convention cars I found these three boxes of replacement bulbs in 3 digit MSOB boxes. These are factory sealed, never opened.


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## alaft61ri

Very cool. Nice


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## Sagas

I believe I received this 54' even though it is a 53' set (K5375W). This set was incomplete not having the matching 473 PA dummy which my mother, who bought it, wouldn't have been aware of when it was purchased and neither would I at that age. There was a separate box of track, some track locks, the usual yellow / blue instruction book and a pair of switches. The interesting part are the wooden mini crates it was packed in. They are the exact size to fit two passenger cars with space for packing in between. There are no covers for them but there are nail holes indicating that there was, nor are any labels or markings. I only remember that there was a little dry straw at the bottom of each one. For a long time I assumed that the bigger sets were packed this way until I got older and discovered otherwise and also realizing that it was incomplete. I assumed that it might have been part of a large crated display unit that was sent to a department store probably for an Xmas or other large setup that included stock and sets that were sold off it which was usually the case. Referenced in the publication "A.C. Gilbert's Heritage" is a #300 "self liquidating" display which included this set and a K5358W (The Challenger) as well so would seem to confirm this. It is doubtful that a department store would go to the extra effort to make these mini crates in-house. 

The 473 below I purchased much later and needs some attention being duller and somewhat faded. I do have a re-plated shell but because of the warbonnet design I may opt to do what I can to it. A couple of cars have suffered somewhat over the years but overall not in too bad a shape.


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## mopac

Nice passenger set.


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## AmFlyer

That is a nice set, you took good care of it. The wood crates sound interesting, I have not seen anything like that previously.


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## AFGP9

Outstanding Santa Fe set Sagas. 

Tom those are great looking convention cars you have there. I have some Lionel made cars too though not convention cars. I have to get busy and take some more pictures. Been kinda busy with yard work and have fallen behind. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

I have a lot more of those convention cars in the que to be posted along with some other AF by Lionel items. For today I thought it would be nice to go back to 1958 with pictures of the great looking 21918/-1 pair of Seaboard Baldwins.
After I took the pictures I forgot the engines were sitting on Line 1 and turned on the power to that track (14V in Legacy mode.) They took off full speed pretty silently, so they are good runners with very little wear.


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## AFGP9

As usual very nice!

Kenny


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## kvlazer22

Love the Baldwins! Especially that paint scheme! A Baldwin is going to be my first diesel I purchase.


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## AmFlyer

Lionel re-released the Seaboard Baldwin switcher in 2003, I happen to have one. They run better but the appearance and decoration of the Gilbert originals is far superior.


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## kvlazer22

AmFlyer said:


> Lionel re-released the Seaboard Baldwin switcher in 2003, I happen to have one. They run better but the appearance and decoration of the Gilbert originals is far superior.


Yup....you are right. I just Googled it and it is no way near as pretty as the AF version.


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## cole226

Tom, you have an impressive assortment of original Flyers. And yes I'm sure we'd all like to see you step back and showcase that layout. Beautifull!!


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## mopac

WOW!!! Great looking locomotives Tom. I have never seen one.


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## AmFlyer

The Seaboard Baldwins are very striking diesels, especially if you like red. I might have mentioned in the past I like red.
Randy, I have posted a lot of layout pictures including the track plan over the past three years. When I went back to my profile to look for them I rediscovered that all the pictures on the old MTF site were left behind. The current site only goes back 30 days. As time allows I can try posting a layout tour in pictures in my profile. I think I know how to do that.


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## cole226

Tom, I've followed your posts over the years and seen your pics. I think your layout could be an inspiration for some of the newbies. Put it out there and show it off! 🇺🇸


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## AmFlyer

Today I intended to post pictures of just the AF by Lionel Shell tank car, but I thought also including the NH boxcar would help understand what Lionel did. Both of these cars were made in 1995.
The orange Shell tank car is still highly sought after by collectors. There were four main variations of the 1946 orange car. Lionel picked version C to reproduce. It is painted orange and the capacity is the 80,000 pound variation. This 48405 is unique in that Lionel printed the original 625 number on it. It is built on a modern split tank chassis using knuckle couplers. The 48322 NH did not use the original number. Both cars have the Built date 95 on them.


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## AmFlyer

Back to the Convention cars. This one is unusual and I believe the only boxcar Lionel released with an interior detail. 
The 48231 is the TTOS 2003 Denver convention car. It is white on green, only two colors but it still stands out as a neat car.


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## AmFlyerFan

Why are they called convention cars?


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## AmFlyer

I refer to them that way because each of these cars was commissioned for production by the specific Convention organizing committee. They were used as fundraisers. All the cars produced went to the Convention organizers to be sold to attendees and organization members. The Linde car was done by TTOS, since I am a member I was sent an invitation to the annual convention and able to preorder the car. Some cars were picked up at the convention such as the two IC cars made for S Fest. Convention cars with the outer cardboard box were mailed directly to me.


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## mopac

I used to be into 1/64 diecast cars. Not Hot Wheels. I attended any diecast convention within 500 miles. That
was about my limit. We had convention cars and what they called dinner cars. Dinner tickets were usually
50.00. That got you a nice sit-down dinner and 2 cars. Limited production. I always took my son and bought
him a dinner ticket and I got the dinner cars. After I would get home I would sell one of the sets to help pay
for the trip. Usually had to get a hotel room for 2 or 3 nights. The extra dinner cars would come close to paying
for the trip. I got really lucky one year in Chicago. The convention had 4 of the dinner cars made with errors
on purpose. I got one. The car had white lettered tires. Mine had 2 brands of tires. Like Goodyear and US Royal.
I sold the car for 750.00. The diecast car hobby was pretty neat. I had some very rare cars. Like only 10 made
in the whole world. Found them at retail stores. You had to know what you were looking for. Still got most of them.
Should sell them. That hobby is down right now.


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## AmFlyer

I have way more 1/64 diecast cars (and trucks) than I will ever need. I never knew there were diecast conventions and I have nothing rare, bought them all at local stores or train shows.
There is an annual auto Show at the San Diego convention center on new Years day. I have attended several years, there is a vendor area as part of the event. This year the diecast car vendors were not there. Mopac, sounds like you have more than enough to populate a large layout.


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## mopac

I get a little carried away with my hobbies. At one time I had over 7000 of the little cars. I sold some and now I have about 4000. I have a one car garage size storage unit rented for my toys. Mainly my HO trains and the 1/64 cars. Over 130 HO locomotives and over 500 pieces of HO rolling stock. Some G scale trains. No wonder my wife would get upset with me. She used to threaten taking a hammer to the toys when she got mad at me about something. I will never know how close she got to doing it. She died of cancer in 2015.


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## mopac

Tom, actually 98% of my 1/64 cars would not be good for a layout. They are what are called "chase" cars. Most people do not even know that the bigger diecast makers make these cars. They are not regular production cars. They are 1 to 2% of total production. For instance Johnny Lightning Chase cars are called White Lightnings. They will have something white on them. Here are pics of 2 of them with white tires. Less than 50 of each were made. These I found at Toys R Us. Last I checked they were worth about 75.00 each. I paid 6.00 each. They are same price in store as regular production. Most people will never notice them. The
vette should have been red and the impala should have been black. These are pearl white with white tires.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, if you are going to be that honest I guess I can be as well. I have 133 S gauge engines, 81 are Gilbert originals, the rest are current production and all but five of those are Legacy command control based for operation on my layout. My 1/64 car and truck inventory is hopelessly out of date but I know I have less than 400. I aspire to never get to your number! Now, when it comes to rolling stock and accessories I do know, piece by piece what I have and regrettably, what I paid for each item. There are 1,000 Gilbert items and another 400 pieces of rolling stock from AF by Lionel. MTH, SHS and AM. Then there are the Plasticville and Snow Village collections we will not talk about.
At least it all fits in the storage space in my house. I do not judge anyone, its whatever makes you happy. I am very fortunate my wife supports my hobby. Mopac, I am sorry to hear about your wife though I am sure she would never have actually taken a hammer to the trains.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, no pictures showing in your post. I bought some of my cars at Toys R Us and I know I have at least one Pearl White car, a 1969 442.


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## mopac

Let me try the pics again.

Pics are not working right now. I will post later.


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## mopac

WOW!!! Tom. 80 some original Flyers. I don't feel so bad now. LOL. I only have 20 some.


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## AmFlyer

31 of the 81 Gilbert engines are part of boxed sets. I have so far posted pictures of about half of my sets.


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## AmFlyer

We need some car pictures so until mopac gets his pictures working here are some city street scenes on my layout. Sorry about the poor depth of field. I am taking these in low light. One of these days I will set up the flood lights and take some real pictures.


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## mopac

Tom, those pics look pretty good. Since your pics showed I tried mine again. They worked. Like any collectible I
have to leave mine in the package. Or knock about 80% of value off.


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## mopac

I notice these cars have white interior also. Regular cars would not.
You can see the paint chip in bottom left corner, that s what color the
regular car would be. I think there were only 25 of my cars produced.
So pretty rare.


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## AmFlyer

Those pictures help a lot. I have a few Johnny Lightning Hot Rod collection cars. I see what you mean by white tires, I have none like that. About half of my cars are Mint Sealed in the original package. The other half I used on layouts built to date. For example there are currently 95 vehicles on my layout and it does not look at all crowded.


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## mopac

It does take a lot of cars to make a layout look right. I had to buy my 1/87 HO cars from online train stores.
I do not know how many HO cars I have. Alot but not enough. LOL.
Then I had to buy 1/43 cars for my O scale trains. Tom, I think we spent too much
on trains. We might have a problem.


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## mopac

I was getting worried about my 342 steamer. No tracking number showing and got my K335 northern and my 607 caboose Friday. Happy with both. Just checked the mailbox. Got a package. The 342 is very nice. Looks better than I thought it would. WOO HOO it is nice. Super happy with it. I think I got a deal. They usually go for 230.00 to 400.00 for a nice one. 137.00 works for me. I bet seller was not excited. It is raining here and very
cloudy. No outdoor pics today, maybe tomorrow. I read somewhere these switchers are easy to doublehead with that bar in the front. Faster engine in the lead. Damn, guess I need a 342AC now.


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## AFGP9

Like you Mopac, I too used to collect those die cast cars but I was a bit more broader. I too got a little carried away with my collecting. Just like playing Texas Hold 'em, I go all in. I never got to your level of 7000 though. Hot Wheels, Johnny Lightning, and Matchbox. I still have 2000+ Hot Wheels, down from 5000. I don't remember how many Johnny Lightening cars I still have along with a couple hundred Matchbox. I bought all of those brands to collect and some to resell on a Hot Wheels internet site to raise money for train buying. All those die cast companies did a form of the White Lightning chase car thing not to mention hard to fine variations which I always said was a marketing ploy to get nuts like me to spend more money, which regrettably I did. Always chasing train money. Hot Wheels produced some pretty nice 1930's and 40's vehicles. I have a few of on my layout since that is the era of my layout. Johnny Lightning did as well. Today I am more likely to look at M2 for the older cars and trucks. I also have a number of AHM 1/64 trucks which I still buy when I can find them. Maybe eBay for them? I had a number of Hot Wheels convention vehicles which sold quite well when I decided to liquidate.
As far as an over all collector of die cast, I had a collection of 150 1/24 trucks which I took to auction. I kept 3 since my late wife had bought them for me. I had them on eBay but only sold 2. I consigned them to the auction house 3 weeks before the night of the sale. Since that night was early December, we thought that was a good time since maybe bidders might be out looking to buy those trucks as Christmas gifts. All were in unopened boxes too. The night of the auction it was 9 degrees, windy and snowing. Weren't too many bidders that night!! Thankfully those who did attend bought all of them although nowhere near what I had in them. Such is the gamble of an auction. At one time I had a collection of 110 NASCAR cars as well. All were boxed Action Premier Series cars averaging $50-$70 a piece. Same fate, auction house, same result, I got nowhere near what I had invested. Another dead market. It's all a gamble. Getting some money back was better than nothing.

Tom you have quite the collection of engines, especially the 81 original American Flyer engines. The rolling stock number is impressive as well. Love that Shell tanker! Makes my 30 engines and 150 rolling stock count look like a beginner. I have no sets although I could make up sets as I learn what sets contained what pieces from what I have. To be honest, I don't want to invest that much money, being retired and all and on a fixed income plus a self imposed train buying budget that I TRY and stick to. Of course with this COVID-19 shut down and no train shows to attend, I got a little spare cash. As I said not long ago, eBay is looking more inviting since we train collectors just gotta buy something sometime that we think is a "bargain" we think!! Mopac and flyernut are making out okay although it sounds like flyernut had an issue recently.

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I spent 40 years as an active collector to buy all those Gilbert pieces and boxed sets. There were also two major sellers who would call me when they got in nice pieces I might want. I tried to buy only 1/64 cars and trucks I would use on layouts, that is why I have less than 400 of them; 250 of the 50’s, 150 of the 60’s. The only train money I spend now is selectively acquiring new production engines and cars for my layout. Thankfully there are few new items made unlike in O gauge. It’s the old saying, I can have most anything I want but for sure not everything I want.
As I commented above I am frustrated with the shallow depth of field in my pictures despite using the latest and greatest 3 lens iPhone. It does not help that there is only about 25 foot candles incident light on the layout. So to try for better pictures I got out the Nikon to experiment with what is possible. The photos below were taken at a fixed f14 aperture, exposure was on auto with aperture priority. The exposures turned out to be about 4 seconds. As you all can see depth of field is better but still not ideal. It looks like to get publication quality pictures I need a lot more light or go to f22 aperture with a little more light. I have the halogen high intensity floods but setting all that up is a task for another day.
I hope you all enjoy looking at my latest photography experimentation.


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## AmFlyer

I just noticed the ghosting of the white letters on the Erie 3 bay hopper in the last picture. That is what happens when the camera moves during a 4 second exposure. Next time I will use a tripod rather than balance the camera on the layout.


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## mopac

Nice pics Tom. They all look good on the layout you got. You have some nice cars.
More light is always better. LOL, my eyesight gets better with more light.

Kenny, I have a few Nascar "chase" cars. I guess they are 1/24. I used to be a big Nascar fan. Real big. Been to a few races. But not for years. 1980s and 1990s were my years. For some reason I just don't care much anymore. They all use the same body now. Just different graphics. That finished me off. My wife got me something neat some years ago. I have always liked fast cars. Had a few. All American muscle. One year, for my birthday, she got me a ticket for the Richard Petty driving experience. We have Gateway RaceTrack here and they had maybe 7 real nascar cars. It was about 2 hour experience. 1 hour of in class training. 1 hour out at track. Somewhere around 10 laps I got to do. It was so cool. I held nothing back. I was doing over 160 on not that big of track. It was a very neat experience. About 400.00 for the ticket, but something I will remember forever. Some guys were scared to death. Not me. I am stupid. We had radios, crawl through the window, the whole thing. Wore a driving suit and helmet.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, that does sound like an experience not to miss.


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## mopac

It was neat. I was so mad at the wife but could not say anything. I had her do the video camera. It did not go well. I came out of my parking spot on pit row smoking the tires. I .thought I did really well. She didn't get that. Over 3/4 of the video she
had camera on wrong car. It wasn't me. I guess they all looked the same to her Nothing in the turns. Not getting in the car or out. She never was a good camera person. She did get me coming down the straight looking pretty fast once.I laugh about it now. They did give me a nice wood plaque and a nice large photo of me in the car. I think I have the biggest grin in the photo I ever had. For a couple hours I was a Nascar driver.


----------



## AmFlyer

When I took the performance driving class at Laguna Seca they had cameras in the car and also recorded all the instrumentation readouts in synch with the video. So I got full video and instrumentation of three laps of Laguna Seca in an AMG GT-R. They did not record the ridealong when a professional race car driver drove me. That was humbling to see the difference between me and the pro after a full day of practice. My wife got a number of stills near the start/finish line. It was an easy decision to not take the advanced SCCA classes after that ridealong.
It would have been really hard for your wife to get all the right shots.


----------



## mopac

I have heard of that driving class at Laguna Seca. Very cool. I bet you enjoyed that.

2 things I picked up on in the first 2 laps of my drive. I had an instructor riding shotgun
with me. On first couple turns I told him I feel like the rearend is going to come around on
me. He told me it won't if I enter turn high and drop down in middle. The other thing was how
much effort it took to make the turn. I had a whole new respect for the real Nascar drivers.
The tires are very wide and no power steering. After only 10 laps I could feel it in my arms.
After 500 miles those guys must be beat.

Tom, you did a road coarse. Much harder than what I did. I would expect a big gap between
the pros and us mere mortals. Nascar is much different. In oval racing you hold the peddle down
and hang on and hope for the best. What the pros have to contend with is 33 other cars just
inches apart. I did not have that. They kept us apart.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, the best part is we had fun and lived to tell about it.


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## AmFlyer

One more experimentation picture. I shot this at a fixed f22 Aperture with auto exposure. It was about a 6 second exposure. The camera is now on a tripod and I used a remote shutter release. The picture is better but the problem is the camera is auto focusing on the foreground. Later today I need to get out the Nikon book and see how to manually set the focus.
This is the south part of the freight yard.


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## Mikeh49

Tom, do you have someone come in and dust? Or is this a clean room?


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## mopac

Awesome shot. The yard looks great.

We are having a beautiful day here. I will get some pics of my new additions in a bit.


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## cole226

Tom, this cabin car pic you took yesterday from low angle looks like a sunset shot.


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## AmFlyer

Randy, the cabin car shot was taken in the afternoon when the sun is in the side of the house with the train room but the windows are mostly blocked by the backdrop. That effect is from the in-ceiling LED can lights.
Mikeh49, the cleaning crew is not permitted to enter the train room. They are also only permitted to vacuum my office, nothing else. I vacuum the train room carpet periodically. I use the long hose with a soft brush attachment connected to the house central vacuum system to clean the layout and the tops of the cars. I hand wipe some areas so we do not vacuum up the citizens and workers on the layout. The train room is at the end of a long hallway and is well sealed and insulated. Living near the beach in SoCal we rarely run the heat or the air conditioning, I never open the train room windows. The layout stays surprisingly dust free for a long period. When we remodeled and updated the house six years ago new distribution ducts for the HVAC were installed to all the second floor rooms. Additionally we removed the filters from the air returns and put large filters and a HEPA filter is a special plenum attached directly to the AHU at the fan suction point. This way no air can bypass the filters. Seems to work pretty well.


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## mopac

Fri and sat I received some new to me goodies. Here are some pics of my 1952 342 switcher 0-8-0.
Also got a 607 boom caboose. Rear coupler on caboose is broken. Seller stated it was broken.
Very happy with the 342. Not the greatest pics but will do for now.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

Very nice Al! One question though, Where are all the leaves in Missouri?


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## AmFlyer

Sorry for subjecting you all to my adventures in relearning photography, or, how do I remember in 5 minutes all that I forgot over 25 years. Three more pictures of the south portion of the yard and engine service area. These were taken at f22 with 500watts of supplemental halogen lighting reflected off the white ceiling. Focus was manually set this time. Camera is on the tripod with remote shutter release. The layout power was off so none of the indicators are lit at the turnouts and on the signal mastheads, building lights are also off. I think the problem here is I cannot get far enough away from the layout to get all the items in focus.


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## AmFlyer

You scored big with the 342! The 607 is also quite nice.


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## mopac

Thanks Tom. The 607 was only 8.00 plus shipping of coarse.

Hey Broke, the trees are getting new leaves. The old leaves are up against the house in the back and other side of house. The leaves used to be bad here. I had 40 med size trees cut down. Still got plenty.


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## mopac

Here is the other steamer I got in past week. A K335.


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## cole226

MoPac, you've been assembling some nice pieces. They look to be in nice shape.


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## AmFlyer

Yes, lots of nice engines with nowhere to run....


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## mopac

Cole, what he is getting at is I do not have a layout to run them on.


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## AFGP9

Tom I don't see where you have a picture taking problem. From what little I know about photography I got no room to critique. If I didn't have Photo Gallery to fix my lame photography, I'd be in trouble. That being said you have some great pictures here. As far as your AF collecting for 40 years, yes I suppose you would have a large collection and knowledge. If I hadn't spent so many years and God knows how much money drag racing, and a little time late model dirt track stock car racing, I would have a bigger collection as well. Even though I did buy AF pieces at random, it sure wasn't my main focus back then. 

As far as Laguna Seca, I know about that but could never get the time to get out there. In all my racing experience, I never road raced. I always thought it looked like a lot of fun.


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## AFGP9

Mopac, that is a very nice 342 and the K335. Just my opinion but you say you bought them. I say you stole them at the prices you paid!!! I'm just jealous because I would never be that lucky. I really enjoy your outdoor shots.
You mentioned your leaves. I'm still mowing up last years leaves. I got 5 large trees with many leaves. That's okay for shade around the house in the summer but when fall comes, they become a PIA!!

I forgot to mention your Richard Petty driving school experience. I have a very good friend who did the same thing down there at Gate Way. Like you, he thought it was the thrill of a life time. Unlike you, he has the complete video to show it. He too was into the 160+ mph range. He did manage to scrape the wall going into turn 3 though. Didn't slow him down though. The weird thing about him is, in all the years I've known him he never once expressed a interest to drive a stock car of any sort. 

Kenny


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## mopac

Thanks Cole. I try to study the pics before buying. Sometimes I miss something. Nothing serious yet.
I like nice pieces. I am a big fan of the original paint if possible.

Thanks Kenny. I spend too much time on ebay. You can get some deals if you spend the time to watch.
You mentioned your friend and the wall at Gateway. I had forgot this. I really did try to see how close to the wall I could get.Not that close. I don't think I got within inches. Something about nerve. I did do everything else I wanted.
I did some drag racing in my younger years. I raced at Houston International. In Texas. I think it became a big time track. I see it on TV. I ran a '57 chevy and then a '65 GTO. Always in stock class. Well they were suppose to be stock. Nascar has a phrase, "If you ain't cheatin you aint tryin".
I remember the AA Fuel dragsters ran 8 second 1/4 miles. I think they are in the 3s now. I don't think I would try to drive one. I bought a new Ford pick up last year. Has a coyote motor in. The sucker is fast. I must think I am young again. I want to run it at Gateway's 1/4 mile track. I got it up over 400 HP. A supercharger would be nice.
That would get it up to 7 or 800 HP. Dreaming there, I do not want to blow it up and I would. I put a Rousch exhaust on it. Sounds good. I need to act my age. But not ready to give everything up.


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## sherman 89

I am a newbie and am sure not up to the speed and quality as seen on this site but I bought and installed a 12,000btu a/c yesterday, very important for Florida summers if you plan on using your garage for anything other than a garage.Also a pic of my little HO world to date.


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## mopac

Looks like a nice HO layout.. Welcome to the forum. Have fun. Thanks for showing your layout.


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## cole226

mopac said:


> I need to act my age. But not ready to give everything up.


Remember, your only as old as you feel.


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## mopac

Kenny, never did any stock car racing but have watched a bunch of it. guess I have enjoyed any kind of racing. I grew up in Houston. During my teen years my dad and me every sat night went to meyer speedway. Small track,
but it is where AJ Foyt started racing. The track is all gone now. Then I moved here a little west of St Louis and was close to another small track. I would sit on my patio and I could hear them. This is where Rusty Wallace, of Nascar fame started racing. This track dates back to the 40s. Track has been shut down for some years now. A group of people wanted to revive it but while it was shut down subdivisions were built close to it and the people
that lived close was able to kill the plans to reopen because of noise pollution. About 10 years ago the track held a reunion for the old drivers. One lived next door to me here and I was able to go. Many of the old drivers still had their old cars and they had them do a few parade laps. You could see the grins on their faces. It was cool. Many of the old guys are gone now.


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## mopac

You right Cole. I am starting to feel the years. I will be 70 later this year. No bad aches or pains yet. I always wanted a corvette. Not sure I could get out of one now. LOL.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Thanks Cole. I try to study the pics before buying. Sometimes I miss something. Nothing serious yet.
> I like nice pieces. I am a big fan of the original paint if possible.
> 
> Thanks Kenny. I spend too much time on ebay. You can get some deals if you spend the time to watch.
> You mentioned your friend and the wall at Gateway. I had forgot this. I really did try to see how close to the wall I could get.Not that close. I don't think I got within inches. Something about nerve. I did do everything else I wanted.
> I did some drag racing in my younger years. I raced at Houston International. In Texas. I think it became a big time track. I see it on TV. I ran a '57 chevy and then a '65 GTO. Always in stock class. Well they were suppose to be stock. Nascar has a phrase, "If you ain't cheatin you aint tryin".
> I remember the AA Fuel dragsters ran 8 second 1/4 miles. I think they are in the 3s now. I don't think I would try to drive one. I bought a new Ford pick up last year. Has a coyote motor in. The sucker is fast. I must think I am young again. I want to run it at Gateway's 1/4 mile track. I got it up over 400 HP. A supercharger would be nice.
> That would get it up to 7 or 800 HP. Dreaming there, I do not want to blow it up and I would. I put a Rousch exhaust on it. Sounds good. I need to act my age. But not ready to give everything up.


Mopac you and I got too much in common. I also started out in a "stock" class car, then took a BIG leap in 1970 into a 1800 lb. 9 second '38 Plymouth B class Altered with a Chevrolet HIlborne injected L88 427. That car was a thrill. Then a friend and I formed a team so we could afford to go Pro Stock racing. Spent 25 years drag racing all over the Midwest, some in Kentucky, and Bristol Tenn. and down your way at Gateway in the Pro Stock division through out the 70's when that class was first started. Back when you could build your own car and do reasonably well against the big name pros. I obtained a blue print of a Reher-Morrison Pro Stock chassis and built my own car using a Vega body shell. I was able to do my own engine and cylinder head work so was able to save a ton of money. That class even in the beginning wasn't cheap. Eventually we branched off into the world of $20,000, $15,000 and $10,000 dollar to win ET bracket racing. More fun than NHRA rules and way more profitable. Like you, I think at my age (73) I could still do it. Hey my mind says I can. The constant traveling might get me down. I'll add another racing phrase spoken often by NASCAR's Junior Johnson. " you ain't cheatin' until you get caught". Yep the AA, now Top Fuel, dragsters are well into the 3 second zone as are most of the Funny cars. 320+ ain't nothin' anymore. Now it is a 1000' length for those cars only. The rest are still a 1/4 mile. Yes that track you spoke of in Texas is now know as the Texas Motor Plex.
You got some good power from that Ford pick up. Supercharger is tempting but also puts a lot of strain on the engines inards.

Now for my pictures of the day since we were talking trucks and cars for lay outs.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, that noise pollution thing is a joke. I remember the days of U.S. 30 out side Gary, Ind. Ever heard of it? Always advertised on the radio. You know some loud announcer would shout," Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.....". We raced there for many years. Then houses started popping up at the west end of the track then all down the north side, the length of the strip. That track had a long shut off area. Next thing you know U.S. 30 was forced to shut down Funny car racing on Wednesday nights then it became Friday nights and eventually early quit on Sunday. Then the track owner, Ben Crist, got tired of the court fights and shut the place down.The track is still there. I was able to drive up on it on my way to Michigan to a NASCAR race. Naturally a state cop saw me and ran me off. All because a bunch of stupid people decided they wanted to live in the "country" and built houses around a loud drag strip then complained about all the noise. A bunch of intelligent people who actually won. As bad as building next to an airport and complaining about the noise. Now the Byron, Il, ( Rockford) is facing the same fate. Has for years. They now have a 6 pm curfew. That owner is looking to sell.

Kenny
.


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## kvlazer22

mopac said:


> Cole, what he is getting at is I do not have a layout to run them on.


I am with ya. I have a nice "new" 336 sitting on my fireplace mantel with no where to run!


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## mopac

Kenny, you got some great looking 1/64 cars and trucks. To me that makes a layout. Of coarse
after the trains. Sounds like you know what I mean about noise pollution. Never will understand
building houses near a track and then complain about the noise. The noise is music to my ears.
You did more drag racing than me. I like your Nascar phrase. At one time junior Johnson was my hero.
My GTO ran in the 12s. The 57 chevy (K/stock) was a pooch but got trophies for both. My GTO was C/Stock.
Your 9 second car had to be cool. I don't know if bracket racing and hadicap racing are the same.
After all the classes ran, they would do handicap racing. I got really humbled once. My GTO got
about a 4 second head start on a 4 cylinder VW beetle. I thought this will be a breeze. I was wrong
he blew past me towards the end. LOL, he must have had 2 turbo chargers. I have never forgot that
one. Pro Stock had to be a blast.


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## mopac

Kvlazer, we got to get layouts built. Lot more fun to run them. Man your 336 is sure
a looker.


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## AmFlyerFan

Off Topic.
Mo-Pac, you sure have a nice retaining wall to shoot pictures of your AF stuff. 
Here 80 miles west of Mpls, our grass is just starting to green up. The trees have buds, the size of popcorn kernels It's nice to see spring is arriving (finally).


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## mopac

Thanks AmFyerFan. My wife had the wall built. It goes for about 120 feet 6 foot high. She got cancer and I could
no longer tell her NO. A little advice- Never buy a house down on the side of a hill. Water runs down hill. Be on top of the hill. Then you don't have to buy a 30,000.00 wall. It is nice for pics.

I have cut the grass twice and it needs it again. Spring is here.


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## AmFlyerFan

Our house sits higher then the neighbors fortunately. Everything drains down into the lake. No drainage problems for our retaining walls.


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## mopac

The wall barely slows the water. If we get 3 or 4 inches of rain, water shoots out between the blocks. I need to dig
a large trench behind the wall to run water around the wall and the house. Not fond of my hill. Its my first and only house I have bought I guess I never thought about the hill. Oh well,
I have put up with it for 45 years. Both of my sons have one leg longer than the other playing
on the hill. Not really.


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## AmFlyer

I like the pictures mopac takes of his trains posed on that wall, it is being put to good use. Unlike some of you guys I never got into organized racing. Some things are too hard to do well when a career requires constant travel and frequent relocations. It is interesting how far car technology has come since those muscle car days, both my wife's and my daily drivers do the 1/4 in the 11's at a tick shy of 130 trap speed. A simple ECU reflash puts them over 130 and some better drivers of her model are posting timeslips in the 10's with just the ECU reflash. And they get over 20mpg highway driving, who would have thought!
Nice pictures of the trucks on the layout. Three things really changed the ability to easily have nicely detailed American Flyer layouts. They were the arrival of the 1/64 diecast cars from Racing Champions, the arrival of 1/64 diecast trucks from AHL and third, the better detailed Snow Village buildings from D56. Those buildings are to no particular scale but many of the city commercial buildings and a few of the houses are 1/64th. I go by the overall appearance and the door height.
Here are two layout pictures of one of my layouts that show them all blended together.


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## mopac

The buildings look great. I am like you, if it looks good, its the right scale. 
You and your wife have some quick cars. Fast cars. My truck stock does
the 1/4 in 13 seconds. Fast for a full size pick up. Its got an aluminum body.
Helps on weight.


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## mopac

Well, not as pretty day here but here is an engine I have not showed on the wall.
Its the 322 Hudson that was mailed to me in a paper envelope and it did not handle the
trip very well. The front pilot was broke into a few pieces. I have repaired that with help
from hjstr6. He had a spare pilot. I had to move a couple things from my busted pilot to my new one. Like the stanchions and the crossbar handrail. All repairs have been done except a tender step and rear tender coupler. I think the engine took a hit on the front and the rear. Kenny, you will like the price on this one. I have 33.00 plus shipping in it. First pic is the busted pilot.










Ok guys, my pics are not working. I think it is the forum. I will post later.


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## AmFlyer

Yep, it takes a lot of power to accelerate a heavy vehicle quickly, aluminum and carbon fiber help with the weight. All wheel drive and the race start feature have fundamentally changed how easy it is to get perfect, repeatable launches. Now almost anyone can be a stoplight racer.


----------



## mopac




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## AmFlyer

Success! I see why you bought it, it is in good shape. Did you notice the pilot has one thick and one thin stanchion? Maybe it is an unreported variation, hurry and put it on EBAY for $999 and see if anyone bites!


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## mopac

I did not notice. I will have to look. That was the hardest part was getting the stanchions seated in.
It was like the stems for them swelled. Well that's not the pilot they came out of. I also had to change
over the front pilot wheels. They are attached to the pilot. It don't look too bad does it. Shame it got damaged
in the mail. Seller has to be some kind of idiot. I paid 63.00 for it. Good price and then seller refunded
me 40.00 for the damage.


----------



## AmFlyer

Took some more layout pictures today, no supplemental lighting but I think I have it figured out. Now everything in the scene is in focus and these are possibly magazine quality photos. Here a couple of the ones I took today.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

very, very nice!


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## mopac

I have not seen a bad pic from you yet.


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Yep, it takes a lot of power to accelerate a heavy vehicle quickly, aluminum and carbon fiber help with the weight. All wheel drive and the race start feature have fundamentally changed how easy it is to get perfect, repeatable launches. Now almost anyone can be a stoplight racer.


Tom those are some quick cars you have there. Yes just about anybody can be a star drag racer with these new technology loaded cars today not to mention get amazing gas mileage. 
Back when I was drag racing semi-pro, (tried to become a pro but $$$$$), I also had a number of muscle cars besides my drag racers. Back in the '60's and early '70's a dollar bought more. The quickest street car I ever owned was my 1969 SS 396/375 hp 4 speed Nova with a 4:10 gear. Gas back then was in the "cents" not dollars so gas cost was not an issue. That car had nothing in it that didn't add to the ET and speed. The weight was only 3200 lbs. I bought that car from Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago. It came with a Nickey "tune up" and suspension tweeks and was a legitimate 11.90's car all day long. I still have some time slips to prove it somewhere out in the shop. Back then everybody knew that engine's advertised hp was way under rated because the very same engine in a Corvette was rated at 425 hp. GM played games with the advertised hp to fool the insurance companies. Mine was ordered with aluminum heads which made it an L78 option and 210 lbs. less front weight. Nickey even dynoed it before I picked it up.The dyno tuned actual hp to the rear wheels was 410 hp. Buying it from Nickey was the best move I made when buying cars of that type. Loved that car. Kept it for 15 years. By the way, tires back then were a joke for that much rear hp. Oh and the wife had her grocery getter everyday Impala 4 speed 396/325 hp car. Nice car. A/C. power windows/locks but no cruise control. What was that? It also had a killer am/fm 8 track tape stereo. 
Flyernut has an SS Nova that looks just like mine did.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice pictures you have of your layout Tom. As mopac said, I haven't seen a bad picture from you yet. You got some great cars and trucks. I have pictures of some of my cars but haven't posted them. 

Now for my photos of the day. I found these cars Sunday while I was investigating boxes I hadn't opened in years. These cars are both metal. Can anybody ID them? The couplers on the boxcar are body mounted. The baggage car had links on it once upon a time. By the way, everybody, these pictures were all downloaded using the paper clip method so they came out as if posting to an email. The ones I posted the other night came out the same way. Why?? I was getting full photos but not now. Does this way bother anybody? Should I find away to get full size pictures? As things stand now at least I am saving space on the forum site.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, you got some great looking 1/64 cars and trucks. To me that makes a layout. Of coarse
> after the trains. Sounds like you know what I mean about noise pollution. Never will understand
> building houses near a track and then complain about the noise. The noise is music to my ears.
> You did more drag racing than me. I like your Nascar phrase. At one time junior Johnson was my hero.
> My GTO ran in the 12s. The 57 chevy (K/stock) was a pooch but got trophies for both. My GTO was C/Stock.
> Your 9 second car had to be cool. I don't know if bracket racing and hadicap racing are the same.
> After all the classes ran, they would do handicap racing. I got really humbled once. My GTO got
> about a 4 second head start on a 4 cylinder VW beetle. I thought this will be a breeze. I was wrong
> he blew past me towards the end. LOL, he must have had 2 turbo chargers. I have never forgot that
> one. Pro Stock had to be a blast.


Mopac that GTO you had was a pretty quick car. That would be quick today as well. Never owned a GTO. I always wanted one. I once sat in a new 1964 GTO at the dealership and was going to buy it but I was 18 at the time and had numerous speeding tickets so my insurance agent and company said "NO!!!". As for that humbling experience with the VW Beetle, it had to be turbo charged. None the less that had to be a big surprise. Yes Pro Stock back then was a lot of costly fun. I drag raced 27 years. That car was an 8 second car. Competitive for that era. The only substitute for speed is more speed.
To answer your question about bracket racing and handicap racing, the answer is yes they are the same format since both are ran off an ET index that you say your car will run without breaking out. Tricky in high horse power cars like my Pro Stock was. That K/stock '57 you had there would have been perfect. A lot of high horse power cars have been beaten by a car such as that car was. Too much of a head start to over come if the high horse power car can't hook up instantly each time. Some times you over guess the track's traction as the day of racing goes on and the track changes. Gotta be a good track reader. Yes Junior Johnson was quite the "innovator" in his day. I have a book of his life. Most interesting.

Kenny


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## kvlazer22

Truly amazing! Fantastic layout!


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, the mail car is just the prewar O gauge Gilbert car. Assuming the trucks on it are original then it would have had a metal link coupler. I am not sure about the metal freight car. 
I post all my pictures using the paper clip to start the process. It looks like you are not choosing the "full size" option after all the pictures finish uploading, but before you select "post." Default is thumbnail if no selection is made.
I did not know the Novas from Nickey were as light as 3200lbs. Hard to overcome that weight advantage, my 442 weighed 4,000lbs. I have two cars with identical engines and transmissions but one has a 10% shorter final drive ratio. The 4 door sedan weighs 5,000lbs, the roadster weighs 4,300 lbs. The difference in weight is very obvious in the driving performance although the published figures and some magazine tests show the actual 1/4 mile difference to be 1.2 seconds and 4 mph.


----------



## mopac

I had a friend in Texas that had a 4-4-2. Beautiful yellow. A real standup car.
He ran a stop sign. A very slight fender bender with another car. But an 11 year
old in the other car hit his head on something and was dead right now. I never
saw the 4-4-2 or my friend again. I was at the accident scene and it was not good.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, the mail car is just the prewar O gauge Gilbert car. Assuming the trucks on it are original then it would have had a metal link coupler. I am not sure about the metal freight car.
> I post all my pictures using the paper clip to start the process. It looks like you are not choosing the "full size" option after all the pictures finish uploading, but before you select "post." Default is thumbnail if no selection is made.
> I did not know the Novas from Nickey were as light as 3200lbs. Hard to overcome that weight advantage, my 442 weighed 4,000lbs. I have two cars with identical engines and transmissions but one has a 10% shorter final drive ratio. The 4 door sedan weighs 5,000lbs, the roadster weighs 4,300 lbs. The difference in weight is very obvious in the driving performance although the published figures and some magazine tests show the actual 1/4 mile difference to be 1.2 seconds and 4 mph.


Tom thanks for the picture information and the AF baggage car ID. I knew if anybody would know you would. I have some link couplers so I will see what fits. As for color I thought since it is an orphan, I would create an REA car. 
As for my Nova's weight, there were all sorts of weight saving things done to that car starting with the weight savings of 217 lbs. with the aluminum heads, no radio, fiber glass inner fender panels which Nickey sold at that time, removal of two of the front 4 bumper braces and the other 2 re fabricated from aluminum along with the same treatment to the rears and an aluminum factory water pump.Then there was the fiberglass hood, with no 18 lb hinges, without the original hood SS hood plates, (15 lbs), back seat taken out, of course no power window motors were in the doors. I forgot, the radiator was changed out to an aluminum one. Remember I didn't say it was a factory weight. Just some drag racing tricks done to it. The beauty of it all was it still carried the factory warranty. Never had to use the warranty. I took it in for service since I wanted to satisfy the warranty and have a record of timely oil changes. A dealer near where I live was a bit of a performance dealer so the service manager never said a word. Anyhow, nothing I did voided the warranty and that dealership was used to seeing leaf spring traction bars on Camaros and Novas. The only thing that was questioned was the added pinion snubber and the additional right rear leaf in the spring assembly. That's another drag racing trick so the car will stay level and not twist as the car torqued to the right on acceleration. I think seeing the Nickey decal gave the service manager a clue that car wasn't as it appeared. Actually that 3200 lbs. was with a full gas tank. 18 gallons of gas weighs 144 lbs. So that car's weight was less than 3200 lbs. I Just thought of that. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, the coupler that goes on the baggage car is the prewar cast metal link coupler. It is pictured on page 225 of the Deger book. If you do not have it let me know and I will post a picture. The pins are different than the postwar plastic couplers. Go to myflyertrains.org and look at the 1941 catalog, it has several pictures of that car. If you want to run it the trucks need to be changed to S gauge in any event.
The box car has what look like plastic replicas of the Gilbert postwar sheet metal trucks and a coupler I do not recognize. It also has Japan stamped on it so that is likely where it was made.
Mopac, that is an awful thing to have happen. My first 1969 442 was saffron yellow with black. My second, the convertible, was red with black. My 1972 was flame orange metallic with white.
Kenny, I am familiar with all the mods you discussed. They make the small Chevys very fast with the big block. The Olds from 68 onward was not good for tuning with the long stroke design and weak bottom end. Also very few performance parts. Plus literally no parts interchanged with the 1967 and prior engines.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today we have another AF by Lionel convention car. This 48492 Northern Pacific boxcar was made for the 1995 TCA convention. The car look really good in person. The roof is black and the sides are dark green with white lettering. The small DF logo on the doors is red lettering on white.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice box car nice color enjoy.

Al


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## mopac

Tom, that is a good looking box car. I think all the Northern Pacific cars are nice.
I have 2 or 3 AF ones. The NP passenger cars look great also.


----------



## rudy's railroad

Greetings!
From the age of five, I grew up with the "toy train" look and to this day have maintained the same kind of layout. Although I run Lionel O27, over the years I've sold off most of my postwar Lionel buildings and accessories and replaced with pre and postwar American flyer mystic stations, with and without cranes, water towers, signal towers and bridges along with other American flyer accessories and a plethora of "other" vintage toy manufacturers for good measure. I had to build a two level layout just to keep up with my eclectic collection.


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## mopac

Hey Rudy, nice scene on your railroad. We will be looking forward to more pics of your layout.
Thanks for posting the pic.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, the coupler that goes on the baggage car is the prewar cast metal link coupler. It is pictured on page 225 of the Deger book. If you do not have it let me know and I will post a picture. The pins are different than the postwar plastic couplers. Go to myflyertrains.org and look at the 1941 catalog, it has several pictures of that car. If you want to run it the trucks need to be changed to S gauge in any event.
> The box car has what look like plastic replicas of the Gilbert postwar sheet metal trucks and a coupler I do not recognize. It also has Japan stamped on it so that is likely where it was made.
> Mopac, that is an awful thing to have happen. My first 1969 442 was saffron yellow with black. My second, the convertible, was red with black. My 1972 was flame orange metallic with white.
> Kenny, I am familiar with all the mods you discussed. They make the small Chevys very fast with the big block. The Olds from 68 onward was not good for tuning with the long stroke design and weak bottom end. Also very few performance parts. Plus literally no parts interchanged with the 1967 and prior engines.


Thanks for the information regarding my baggage car. I haven't checked that link you sent but will. The 1969 4-4-2 was a great car. That Saffron Yellow with black stripes was a sharp combination. Yes those Olds engines had their limits. Don't forget the 1970 W-30 455 engine. That was a great package. An uncle had 1969 that I drove often and almost bought one but decided to buy a 1969 Plymouth GTX. Loved that car. ET's were always in the 13:90's any time and had a ridiculous top end. 140+ plus was scary on stock tires so I bought State Police Firestone high speed tires. I never saw any GTX ,R/T Dodge, or Challenger 440 powered car that could not run that speed unless it had a 4:10 gear. Most were 3:23's or 3:42 which is what mine was. There were several in my area back then. Those GTX's and Dodge R/T's were heavy full size cars but had a nice ride. Traded in my wife's 1966 SS impala for it. Before I bought my GTX, I drove a Tri power 440 Challenger 4 speed. That car was a joke. No traction with that 4 speed so the GTX was the choice. Same problem with a 4 speed Hemi powered car and 4 speed. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

My picture(s) of the day. Notice how none of the bottoms of these signs are a like due to the different years of production. I got paint that will match the bases of these but am not sure how to safely redo the white frames without damaging the signs. Plus I am certain the one sign showing the Santa Fe engine is badly faded but not the base green. Any thoughts on that? 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Today we have another AF by Lionel convention car. This 48492 Northern Pacific boxcar was made for the 1995 TCA convention. The car look really good in person. The roof is black and the sides are dark green with white lettering. The small DF logo on the doors is red lettering on white.
> 
> 
> View attachment 541798
> View attachment 541799


Very nice Tom! I have liked that Northern Pacific Dark Green. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Welcome very nice layout if you dont mind me asking why did u get ride of the lionel stuf and replace with american flyer.

Al


AFGP9 said:


> My picture(s) of the day. Notice how none of the bottoms of these signs are a like due to the different years of production. I got paint that will match the bases of these but am not sure how to safely redo the white frames without damaging the signs. Plus I am certain the one sign showing the Santa Fe engine is badly faded but not the base green. Any thoughts on that?
> 
> Kenny
> 
> View attachment 541846
> View attachment 541847


----------



## AmFlyer

I am only aware of two green colors used on the 577 billboards. The two lighter green ones left the factory with the same color.Any difference now would be fading and UV effects. It used to be possible to buy repros of the billboard art. Not sure if the repro's are still available from vendors.
I am very familiar with the W-30, Hurst olds variants and the W-34. The manual and automatic cars had different carbs and cams. The GTX was a nice car, not many were sold.


----------



## alaft61ri

alaft61ri said:


> Welcome very nice layout if you dont mind me asking why did u get ride of the lionel stuf and replace with american flyer.
> 
> Al





AFGP9 said:


> My picture(s) of the day. Notice how none of the bottoms of these signs are a like due to the different years of production. I got paint that will match the bases of these but am not sure how to safely redo the white frames without damaging the signs. Plus I am certain the one sign showing the Santa Fe engine is badly faded but not the base green. Any thoughts on that?
> 
> Kenny
> 
> View attachment 541846
> View attachment 541847


I had the same problem couldnt save one the circus one mine had 2 tiny screws one on each side of the white that will come a part. Here r my 3


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## AmFlyer

Rudy, welcome! That looks like a very interesting layout.


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## mopac

Kenny, I think 2 or 3 bendable tabs is all that holds those cards in the billboards.
I see new ones on ebay for around 10.00. They are repros but look just like yours.
Same pics.


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## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I think 2 or 3 bendable tabs is all that holds those cards in the billboards.
> I see new ones on ebay for around 10.00. They are repros but look just like yours.
> Same pics.


Thanks mopac. I never really thought of that. Good to know. Now I can proceed with the restoration. I have the controllers for those 3 but forgot to post them which I will do now. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I am only aware of two green colors used on the 577 billboards. The two lighter green ones left the factory with the same color.Any difference now would be fading and UV effects. It used to be possible to buy repros of the billboard art. Not sure if the repro's are still available from vendors.
> I am very familiar with the W-30, Hurst olds variants and the W-34. The manual and automatic cars had different carbs and cams. The GTX was a nice car, not many were sold.


Mopac just said there are repros of those signs available on eBay for around 10.00 ea. I'll check that when I check the link that you provided for that baggage car. I do have the controllers for those signs but forgot to post them which I will do now.

That GTX is the one car, besides my '69 SS Nova, that I wish I had today. A guy I know around here had a GTX like mine except it was blue. 5 years ago he tracked it down and bought it back! Of course he paid way more now than when he bought it new in '69. I've tried to track my '69 GTX down but got nowhere. I also had a 1967 440 GTX. I managed to track that car down into Arkansas. Too late. The guy who had it turned it into a full on drag racer. Except for a fiberglass hood, the body was still stock but the interior was gone and a full Funny Car roll cage was installed along with an aluminum floor and narrowed Dana rear end. Engine was 540 c.i. supercharged Hemi. It was a 7 second car. Don't know why he did that to a valuable car instead of using a Belvedere body. I didn't bother asking.
That W-34 Olds was a very good car in it's time for not much money. That deal about the manual and automatic cars having different carbs was a known fact but the cam difference was not so well know. As I recall the Automatics had a bit milder cam, less duration for more vacuum so they would shift better.

Kenny


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## AFGP9

AFGP9 said:


> Thanks mopac. I never really thought of that. Good to know. Now I can proceed with the restoration. I have the controllers for those 3 but forgot to post them which I will do now.
> 
> Kenny
> 
> 
> AFGP9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My picture(s) of the day. Notice how none of the bottoms of these signs are a like due to the different years of production. I got paint that will match the bases of these but am not sure how to safely redo the white frames without damaging the signs. Plus I am certain the one sign showing the Santa Fe engine is badly faded but not the base green. Any thoughts?
> 
> Kenny
Click to expand...


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## AFGP9

Don't know what happened here. Above I mean. I was trying to post pictures and this popped up.


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## AFGP9

Anyway here are my controllers to those signs I posted.

Kenny


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## flyernut

1969 Nova??


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## mopac

Kenny, those billboard buttons look very nice. You should not need the generators, just the buttons.
That's all my billboards have and they work great. The generators are needed to blow tender whistles.

flyernut, nice nova. Looks very racy. Love the red line tires. I tried red lines, blue streaks,
nothing lasted over 7000 miles on my GTO. GTO= Gas Tires Oil. Speaking of oil. Mine
started using that also. Not at first but my GTO started using a quart every 50 miles. I did
not know how to rebuild so I bought a 428 for it. The 389 had got tired. Found the 428 at
a salvage yard. It was in a car with only 6000 miles. That had got totaled. 400.00 for it.
Kinda ruint the matching numbers for my GTO. The 3 deuces moved right over to the 428.
Should have moved the cam and the heads also. That I had done to a motor. 50 miles on a quart of oil, probably a cracked or broken ring. A GTO motor had a higher lift cam and higher
compression heads. One night at the drags a guy was going to put up the money to have an inspection done on my motor.. He didn't think my car should have beat his.. Glad he backed off.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, those controllers are not used with the 577 billboards, they are for the air chime whistles built into some steam engine tenders and diesels. You could wire them to activate the 577 but they take up too much space.


----------



## AmFlyer

I guess this can be my photo of the day even though it is pretty lame. I have four control panels pre-built to expedite completing Holiday layouts, this is the smallest and simplest of the four. The correct buttons for many accessories are visible, the 577 whistle is in the upper left.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

There are NO lame photos on this thread & that's a lot of buttons.


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## AmFlyer

I guess we can talk about cars all day. Flyernut has a couple of nice cars he has posted here. The 428 Pontiac was not normally equipped with performance parts. What was needed was the 421 like Pontiac put in the 4 speed GTO they released to the car magazines for testing. Recall the red car, blue car controversy. Former Pontiac execs owned up to what was done in an interview five years ago. The 4 speed had a custom prepped 421, the automatic had a stock 389. Externally they look identical. The magazine testers were running [email protected] in the 4 speed, [email protected] in the automatic. Same engine? Suuuure! It was fun at the time.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Kenny, those billboard buttons look very nice. You should not need the generators, just the buttons.
> That's all my billboards have and they work great. The generators are needed to blow tender whistles.
> 
> flyernut, nice nova. Looks very racy. Love the red line tires. I tried red lines, blue streaks,
> nothing lasted over 7000 miles on my GTO. GTO= Gas Tires Oil. Speaking of oil. Mine
> started using that also. Not at first but my GTO started using a quart every 50 miles. I did
> not know how to rebuild so I bought a 428 for it. The 389 had got tired. Found the 428 at
> a salvage yard. It was in a car with only 6000 miles. That had got totaled. 400.00 for it.
> Kinda ruint the matching numbers for my GTO. The 3 deuces moved right over to the 428.
> Should have moved the cam and the heads also. That I had done to a motor. 50 miles on a quart of oil, probably a cracked or broken ring. A GTO motor had a higher lift cam and higher
> compression heads. One night at the drags a guy was going to put up the money to have an inspection done on my motor.. He didn't think my car should have beat his.. Glad he backed off.


My buddy had a 65 GTO, tri-power, 389, 4-speed, 4:11's, convert.Car would fly!! He was beat just once, a 426 Hemi beat him, but it took the hemi a while before he took him. His engine also used about a qt every 50 miles, and we put in a second one, that one burnt about a qt every 100 miles,lol!!!


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

And I agree. I learn everyday. And that is no easy thing for I am an old dog!


----------



## AmFlyer

We have buttons! Two more control panels with more buttons and more transformers.


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## AmFlyer

Sorry, better pic of the second one.


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## AmFlyer

That was one fast 389 flyernut. 1966 was the last year for the Tripower. In 1967 GM introduced the Quadrajet to replace the 4GC. The high flow variant of the Quadrajet would outflow the tripower, but did not look as good doing it.


----------



## mopac

I would have rather had a 421 but found a 428. It was in a current year station wagon. I had 3.90 gears
put in my GTO. Was perfect for the 1/4. Those pontiacs had no revs to them like a chevy. After 5500 the
valves would start floating. My Gto did a lot better than 105. I need to find some tickets from the strip. Around 117 for me as I remember. A couple times I did do 12.90s. It was a fast goat. I didn't lose many. Never had a 396 camaro beat me. But I do not remember running a 396 375HP one. Beat a few 440 GTXs. I will tell you I lost to a couple 327 chevelles with some goodies on them. Beat a hemi once but I think it needed tuned. They were always out of tune. I ran C/stock. There was a beautiful 66 327 375HP Chevy II running in A/stock that I adored. He probably ran 10s and when he launched he would pull the front left wheel about 6 inches off the ground. I don't think they weighed much. Lots of body flex as I remember.
They were unitized body. No real frame.

Tom, I remember the 421 GTO, red, blue thing. Took pontiac a long time to admit that.

Only 1500 389 3 deuces 4 speeds were built in 65. Mine had something I never saw on any other. Mine had transistorized ignition. It was an option that year. Way before other
cars had it. Just about all by 72. My module went out and no one knew how to fix it so I put a standard dstribuator in it.


----------



## mopac

Lots of memories of that GTO. Only really fast car I had. I came up with a set of slicks for the track. I doubt I needed them but they looked cool on it. They would rub a bit on the rear fenders, so I bought some Air Lift air bags. They went inside the coil springs. When I would take off the car would squat some and pinch and burst the airbags. The speed shop replaced them 3 times. 4th time gave me my money back.
So done with the slicks.

Ok,Ok, done with car talk. Back to trains,


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, those controllers are not used with the 577 billboards, they are for the air chime whistles built into some steam engine tenders and diesels. You could wire them to activate the 577 but they take up too much space.


Tom I got all the signs and the controllers from a guy for $35 years ago. I've never tried to use them. Thanks for the information.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I would have rather had a 421 but found a 428. It was in a current year station wagon. I had 3.90 gears
> put in my GTO. Was perfect for the 1/4. Those pontiacs had no revs to them like a chevy. After 5500 the
> valves would start floating. My Gto did a lot better than 105. I need to find some tickets from the strip. Around 117 for me as I remember. A couple times I did do 12.90s. It was a fast goat. I didn't lose many. Never had a 396 camaro beat me. But I do not remember running a 396 375HP one. Beat a few 440 GTXs. I will tell you I lost to a couple 327 chevelles with some goodies on them. Beat a hemi once but I think it needed tuned. They were always out of tune. I ran C/stock. There was a beautiful 66 327 375HP Chevy II running in A/stock that I adored. He probably ran 10s and when he launched he would pull the front left wheel about 6 inches off the ground. I don't think they weighed much. Lots of body flex as I remember.
> They were unitized body. No real frame.
> 
> Tom, I remember the 421 GTO, red, blue thing. Took pontiac a long time to admit that.
> 
> Only 1500 389 3 deuces 4 speeds were built in 65. Mine had something I never saw on any other. Mine had transistorized ignition. It was an option that year. Way before other
> cars had it. Just about all by 72. My module went out and no one knew how to fix it so I put a standard dstribuator in it.


 Mopac yes that GTO of yours needed a 421 or better yet a 421 Super Duty which was Pontiac's NASCAR engine that was out in a few Catalina's. I had one of those engines in my shop for some work, I can tell you the heads on that engine had a great port layout and BIG valves. I don't recall the size. I do remember after a little valve pocket work, and light port polishing, they flowed 385 cfm on the intake side and 340 cfm on the exhaust side on my flow bench. Those heads did not have stock style ports so you couldn't put them on a regular 421. Any 421 would have worked in your car but a Super Duty version?? 
That 327 375 HP Chevy II you mentioned was a killer car. They weighed 2750 in stock trim. A friend of mine had one that he bought new. That car hooked so hard, as you witnessed. I welded steel square tubing to the sub frames to connect them for my friend's car which eliminated most of he flex. No sub frame connectors on the market back then. Now here is the weird part. That Chevy II he had was 3 on the tree!! Not a 4 speed!! I don't ever remember that he ever lost. That 327 from the factory had the fuelie Corvette cam, 2.02 "double hump" heads and 10.5 to 1 pistons. 

Tom I too remember the GTO red and blue thing. Back in those days all the manufactures played games and gave the car magazine's "tuned" cars to test. In my 30 years as a GM parts mgr., I got to know some of the Chevy performance engineers very well. 2 of them quite well. What stories they had to tell. Most of them revolved around Smokey Unick and Grumpy Jenkins. Now those 2 were a couple guys a met more than once at Daytona at the Chevy Show display. I hardly said a word. Just listened to them talking to one of the engineers I knew. But hey, Chevrolet never "officially" raced or helped anybody. At least that was their story and they stuck to it. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

You got a good buy, just those controllers are worth $30.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, it used to be common to release specially prepped cars to the magazines for testing. I think Pontiac's replacing the 389 with a 421 SD engine was a unique approach!


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, it used to be common to release specially prepped cars to the magazines for testing. I think Pontiac's replacing the 389 with a 421 SD engine was a unique approach!


Yes I thought those controllers alone were worth the $30 even though the signs weren't great. I saw restoration in them though. Until you mentioned it, I didn't know those controllers weren't for those signs. Never really investigated them. I bought them and left them in the box they came in. I understand what you said their function really is.

I used to have subscriptions to 5 different car magazines so I was very aware how the cars were presented to the mag writers. The engineers I got to know at Chevrolet all told me it was common practice to give magazines prepared cars. Heck Dodge and Plymouth went so far as to use cars prepped by the Ram Chargers engineering team. They went on to form the Ram Chargers Funny Car team. They tested their cars in Detroit on now famous Woodward Boulevard. The Chevrolet engineers I knew said all the manufactures did it. Then they turned the cars over to the magazine writers as "regular" cars. I've been to Woodward Boulevard. It was nothing more than a 4 lane drag strip back then. Not much there as far as businesses. A couple burger joints where car people hung out. Mostly warehouses. Of course that's all changed now. I was in Detroit 5 years ago and didn't recognize the area.

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

I have the opportunity to visit Detroit periodically because my wife has close relatives there. Twelve years ago we happened to be there during the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise, so we took our rental Lincoln Town Car and drove for three hours, north then back south. Did the entire cruise, it was neat.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I have the opportunity to visit Detroit periodically because my wife has close relatives there. Twelve years ago we happened to be there during the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise, so we took our rental Lincoln Town Car and drove for three hours, north then back south. Did the entire cruise, it was neat.


I new of that Dream Cruise then but couldn't make it. My late wife has a cousin outside Lansing so we tried to put a visit with them and that Dream Cruise night together but she was an RN and couldn't get the time off since others had scheduled time off at that time. Driving that rental Town Car in that cruise must have been a trip! Some where I did see some tape of that night on maybe the Speed Channel or what ever it is called now. I think the Motor Trend channel? 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

At least none of the spectators booed.


----------



## AmFlyer

For today’s picture I have another convention car. The 48273 Northwestern Refrigerator Line Company Reefer was made for the 2009 TTOS convention. It is the same as the 1958 Gilbert 24416. Interesting the car carries the 24417 number.


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## mopac

Very cool C&NW reefer. I would like to have one. From the 50s or your newer one. They cost
some bucks. I keep watching for someone to slip up.


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## mopac

Kenny, you mentioned car magazines. I still have them. Car Craft. They date back to 1959. I was only 9 years old.
And loved cars. At 10 years old I started mowing yards. To save for a car. At 13 I bought my '57 chevy. I could not
even get a drivers license. I really wanted a '57 chevy.. I bought it in 1963 and it was already starting to be a classic.
Then Pontiac brings out the '65 GTO that I just fell in love with. That hood scoop did it. At 15, no way I could buy a new one. But by 1967 I had enough money to buy a used one. It was a lot of car for a 17 year old. I never killed myself or
any one else. Probably came close a few times. I was a street racing fool. I got one ticket in my 57 for excessive noise. Loud exhaust.
Got one ticket in my GTO. Competition of speed but cop reduced it to speeding. Cop said the judge will suspend my license for 1 year for drag racing. I think he liked my car. LOL.


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## AmFlyer

Fortunately we all survived youth with muscle cars. Mopac, keep looking for that underpriced reefer. The 989 sells for $125 or a little more. The 24416 is for enjoying in someone else's collection, they sell for over $2,000.


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## mopac

LOL, so you are saying it might be awhile before I get one. LOL, maybe I should start mowing yards.


----------



## alaft61ri

AmFlyer said:


> For today’s picture I have another convention car. The 48273 Northwestern Refrigerator Line Company Reefer was made for the 2009 TTOS convention. It is the same as the 1958 Gilbert 24416. Interesting the car carries the 24417 number.
> 
> 
> View attachment 541943
> View attachment 541944


Very nice cool
Al


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## AmFlyer

If you can find a 989 for $100 that is one tank of gas on that pickup, which would you rather have? I know we have saved way more than $100 in gas over the last two months with the stay at home orders. However I did just pay $23 to have a large 8oz bottle of smoke fluid sent to me. My smoke fluid consumption has gone up by at least a factor of four by staying home and running the trains.


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## mopac

I am sure smoke fluid consumption is up. I need more and I am not running. That stuff is not cheap.
I might try some "fog juice". I have heard it works in model trains. It is juice used in smoke machines.
Like ones used by rock bands and such. Same principle. A heating element and smoke fluid. You buy
it by the gallon instead of the ounce. It is cheap. Look at it on ebay.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> I am sure smoke fluid consumption is up. I need more and I am not running. That stuff is not cheap.
> I might try some "frog juice". I have heard it works in model trains. It is juice used in smoke machines.
> Like ones used by rock bands and such. Same principle. A heating element and smoke fluid. You buy
> it by the gallon instead of the ounce. It is cheap. Look at it on ebay.


I just use mineral oil. It can be flavored should you wish.


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## mopac

Broke, how you doing? Where do you get mineral oil. I have heard of that also.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

mopac said:


> Broke, how you doing? Where do you get mineral oil. I have heard of that also.


I am fine for an old fat man. Thanks for asking. You can buy mineral oil at Walmart or any pharmacy
.


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## AmFlyer

Unfortunately I have one mandatory requirement. If it does not smell like original Gilbert smoke fluid I will not use it in my American Flyer engines. $20 for 8oz is not that bad.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Unfortunately I have one mandatory requirement. If it does not smell like original Gilbert smoke fluid I will not use it in my American Flyer engines. $20 for 8oz is not that bad.


Yep couldn't agree more Tom. Got to have that original smell to be right to me. Just my opinion. I knew about the mineral deal but didn't do it.

Nice C&NW reefer convention car. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

My photo of the day contribution. Two actually. I was digging through some long forgotten boxes last weekend and found these AF boxes. The car box numbers are clearer than the picture shows. Probably shouldn't have printed that picture on second thought.


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## flyernut

Still run a Quadra-jet on my Nova, I had 2 67's GTO's and both ran a Quadra-jet.My 69 Corvette also ran a Nova, my fastest car, 350/350hp..


----------



## AFGP9

Quadra-jets were never my favorites from a tuning stand point. I can over haul them and understand their internal functions and even have modified a couple. They do work great. Had one on my '66 SS Impala 369/325 hp stock from the factory. Having said all that, I am a Holley man. Thoroughly enjoy fooling with them. When I was drag racing I had 3 different tunnel ram 2 carb size set ups plus several single carburetor sizes all depending on which engine set up or which engine size I had in the race car. As far as my '69 SS Nova, that 396/375 hp came with a Holley from the factory. Yes I had a fortune tied up in intake manifolds and Holley's.

Kenny


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## mopac

We used to have a Holley manufacture place here in St Louis. It is long gone.

Tom, I have a question for you since I know you are a cardboard collector.
When did AF quit the yellow and blue boxes and go to the red and white?


----------



## AmFlyer

The red and white boxes were first used in 1956 but it was a soft transition. Gilbert continued to use the blue and yellow boxes until the stock was used up. Some items were still using the blue and yellow boxes well into 1957.


----------



## AmFlyer

Quadrajets were great carbs and could be tuned to do almost anything but they were not intended for racing applications. The three undesirable features when used on a competition engine are the unbalanced sizing of the primaries and secondaries, the air valve flow metered secondaries and the triple venture primaries that gave great mixture control at part throttle but just cluttered up the primaries at WOT. I used the 750 CFM versions on my 442's because the Olds heads available in the 70's did not flow enough to need the 800CFM version. I had a friend who worked at Rochester Products so I had a selection of every primary rod and jet, secondary rods, secondary rod hangar and power piston spring made, so I could tune the carbs to any engine mod. When I had the 1969 400 rebuilt I used the 308 deg cam from the W34 (also used in the W31 and automatic W30), so I could easily rev the engine to 6k but it was all done making power at 5,400 rpm. The downside of the undersquare long stroke design. Single plane or tunnel rams were a waste of money on those Olds engines.


----------



## AmFlyer

We need a better picture of those OB's!


----------



## mopac

Here are 2 gondolas I have received in past 2 weeks. Got the Monon in mailbox today.
The C&O was no bargain. 27.00 for it with the plastic pipe. No box. Made 1958-1960. 










The Monon was better. 1.04 plus 5.00 shipping. pikemaster couplers. no box. Made1961-1965
Both in nice condition. Monon has one missing step.


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## AmFlyer

The current Guide price for the 911 with silver pipes is $39, sounds to me like you did well. The ones with brown pipes are listed at $195. The 24127 with the Pikemaster couplers lists for $11, so even with a step missing you did well.
I see the trees are a lot greener today.


----------



## mopac

The trees are getting there. Nice day today. Need to cut grass. Have to go get gasoline for
my John Deere lawn tractor. Nothing runs like a deere. I was going to siphon some gas out
of the truck. It has a capless gas fill. Cannot get a siphon hose down it, Must be anti theft. My
truck tank is full and I need to empty it. A squirrel for the second time has chewed a hole in
the gas line. My insurance is not going to be happy. Truck will need to be hauled to dealer.
With an electric fuel pump in the gas tank and turning key on shoots gas all over. I would
poison the damn tree rats but I get dogs and cats in my yard and I do not want to kill them.
May have to buy me a good pellet gun and pick them off one by one. Not allowed to fire guns
where I live. I have fired a few but that was years ago. May have been legal then.


----------



## AmFlyer

My son bought a pellet gun to kill the gophers in his backyard in San Diego. He will tell you it would take a 24hour army of shooters to solve the problem that way. I know you do not want my help but I just need to comment, can't help myself. The obvious but probably undoable solution is to park the truck in the garage. Option 2, and definitely possible is to stop at the Ford Performance counter and buy a braided steel replacement line.


----------



## mopac

Tom, your helpful comments are always welcomed. I was going to splice the fuel line myself but its in a bad place and in a curve section. These little bastards will chew through braided line. They chew on my chain link fence. Someone told
me they sharpen their teeth on the fence. They chew right through the metal twist ties that hold the fence to the top
bar of the fence. They are really a menace. I used to use plastic flower pots on the patio. They chewed all the rims off of the pots. My wife use to grow tomatoes. Well tried to. The little varmits would take one bite out of the tomatoes just as they were ready to be picked. Every tomatoe. My wife would get so pissed. They have been a problem here for years.
They chewed up all the wring twice under my wife's hood. Spark plug wires and any other wires they could get in ther mouths. The poison is sounding better and better.You mentioned putting truck in garage.. I need to but all 3 garages are full. Someway I need to move stuff around and get the truck inside. 






Y


Y


----------



## AmFlyer

You have some amazingly capable squirrels if they can chew through the metal twist ties on the fence. They are moderately smart, they probably just want to really tick you off.


----------



## mopac

Someday I will get pics of my lawn tractors. I have 2 but one I have not used in years. The other one is a 
75th anniversary Simplicity. Looks like a race tractor. Its a collector piece. Chrome reverse wheels, captain
chair, chrome exhaust. Chrome nerf bars. Chrome tear drop headlights and rear light, And cool flames paint job.
For some reason I had it on my flatbed trailer and stopped at Walmart for something. Had a big crowd around 
it when I came out of store. You have to remember they race tractors in Missouri. The Simplicity was in the Ginnis
Book Of Records. I forget how many were made but they had a convention for the dealers in San Francisco.
All of these were shpped there and each dealer drove the one they were getting in a parade. Largest lawnmower
parade in the world. And then the tractors were shipped to the dealers. I have to have a big heavy tractor because of this hill I live on. I tred to get by with a smaller one for one year and traded it in. On a hill you drive straight up and straight down. A smaller tractor just slides 1/2 way down the hill when you turn to come down. Tore the yard up and very unsafe. I would love for one of those 2 to 3 thousand dollar ones from Home Depot to work. They won't/.The
ones I have were each 6000.00. But they hold the hill.

When I bought the John Deere they had one just like mine in the showroom with a cool brush guard on it.
So of coarse I had to have one. I don't need a brush guard, I don't let trees grow up in my yard. But it is not
the first thing I have bought that I did not need.


----------



## AmFlyer

We need to see pictures, they sound cool! 
Fortunately no need for tractors here, Just raked gravel with cactus/suculents, concrete and water. The landscapers come once/week to trim and shape the plants and blow the loose items off the concrete. The pool guy comes once/week to clean the spa. The window washer guys come once/year and they also clean the 120' of glass fence. Zero outside maintenance for me.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> We need a better picture of those OB's!


Yes I know. I got them packed away again so have to move some stuff and dig them out again. The picture looked great in my Photo Gallery but when down loaded what you see is what happened. Of course I eliminated the picture from the folder after posting. I usually wait a bit. This whole box thing has become a pain. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Tom, your helpful comments are always welcomed. I was going to splice the fuel line myself but its in a bad place and in a curve section. These little bastards will chew through braided line. They chew on my chain link fence. Someone told
> me they sharpen their teeth on the fence. They chew right through the metal twist ties that hold the fence to the top
> bar of the fence. They are really a menace. I used to use plastic flower pots on the patio. They chewed all the rims off of the pots. My wife use to grow tomatoes. Well tried to. The little varmits would take one bite out of the tomatoes just as they were ready to be picked. Every tomatoe. My wife would get so pissed. They have been a problem here for years.
> They chewed up all the wring twice under my wife's hood. Spark plug wires and any other wires they could get in ther mouths. The poison is sounding better and better.You mentioned putting truck in garage.. I need to but all 3 garages are full. Someway I need to move stuff around and get the truck inside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> 
> 
> Y


Mopac those squirrels you have there are not of this planet I tell ya!!! Chewing metal?? Now those are some sharp chewing teeth!! If they are chewing on the fence, electrify the fence. That way you got fried squirrels and lunch if you are into eating squirrels like us country folk. It's been a while since I ate squirrel so maybe I wouldn't like it now days. Oops, wait a minute, you said you had dogs and cats around. Never mind. Back to you moving stuff around in your garage to get the truck inside.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Isn't that always the case? Packed away again for safe keeping.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Quadrajets were great carbs and could be tuned to do almost anything but they were not intended for racing applications. The three undesirable features when used on a competition engine are the unbalanced sizing of the primaries and secondaries, the air valve flow metered secondaries and the triple venture primaries that gave great mixture control at part throttle but just cluttered up the primaries at WOT. I used the 750 CFM versions on my 442's because the Olds heads available in the 70's did not flow enough to need the 800CFM version. I had a friend who worked at Rochester Products so I had a selection of every primary rod and jet, secondary rods, secondary rod hangar and power piston spring made, so I could tune the carbs to any engine mod. When I had the 1969 400 rebuilt I used the 308 deg cam from the W34 (also used in the W31 and automatic W30), so I could easily rev the engine to 6k but it was all done making power at 5,400 rpm. The downside of the undersquare long stroke design. Single plane or tunnel rams were a waste of money on those Olds engines.


Tom what you described is exactly why I didn't like fooling with those Quadrajets. You have described their undesirable features perfectly. I tried to like them. Spent a lot of time with the one on my '66 SS Impala. Finally just left it alone. At that time it was more fun playing with my '69 SS nova anyway. The use of those primary rods and jet sets, secondary rod hanger and power piston spring was what I found most frustrating when tuning that carburetor. For fine, easy tuning, (for me) give me a Holley any day. Got those things down. I have a friend who has raced a Buick Stage 1 Grand Sport in NHRA G/Stock for 20 years and he swears by those Quadrajets. I think he knows about every trick in the book, still staying within NHRA "stock"rules.
As to the Olds undersquare design, never understood why they used that design. It sure limited it's rpm range. Anything above 5,500 was just noise, no power.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Isn't that always the case? Packed away again for safe keeping.


Yep! Also, I'm pretty sure I won't be going to mopac's house with those metal fence eating squirrels around!! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The Stage 1 GS used the 800CFM version of the Quadrajet and that engine made unreal amounts of torque. When Olds released the long stroke, undersquare engines, emissions limits had just arrived. The Olds engines excelled in low emissions, never required an air injector pump. Even the 455 which was square did not rev. The crank to piston wrist pin relationship was bad and the bottom end was weak. There is now a fix for the bottom end and high flow aluminum heads were introduced by the aftermarket. Still a lot easier to just build a Chevy engine. By the way, I thought the 375HP/396 came with a Holley.


----------



## kvlazer22

Thanks to COVID I have been tackling the attic and yesterday I had a huge find! I posted previously about my 952 and 954 however, I don't remember as a kid having three of these heavyweights. I found it in a box that had a bunch of my childhood pictures. Low and behold at the bottom was a 953! Completely unexpected! I am planning on restoring these three but can't figure out exactly what I am going to do to them. I am having trouble finding this green paint....which I love.

Also, thanks to Tom, he helped me out with a method to straighten the frames. Screw them to a board and sit them on top of washers. The washers allow a gap which enables the heat from a hairdryer to evenly heat up the plastic. After several minutes you have a perfectly straight heavywieght frame. It blew my mind a little. Now for all those broken steps.


----------



## mopac

LOL, I ain't kidding about those squirrels. Everything I said was true. I could not believe they
were chewing my fence. Got the front yard mowed. Storms getting ready to move in. Lots
of rain here in the spring and then a drought for 2 or 3 months. Nothing in moderation. Even
though I was riding I feel pooped. Front yard not as steep as the back yard. I have one acre
here. I would sell the place but I would have too much tax. I am putting my 2 sons names on my
money and everything. Like a TOD. Their on my truck. On everything except the house. Need to take care of that.
told them if they take any money before I am gone I would kill them. If I was worried about it I would not have put the names on it. You need to set stuff up before you pass. LOL, we are running out of time. My mom died last
year, she had everything in order. Made t a lot easer. And I owe no tax.


----------



## AmFlyer

As a single filer $250,000 of the gains on the house are tax free. That is after all costs and improvements. Your neat $30,000 wall would reduce your Long Term Capital Gains tax on sale of the house. 
We have all our stuff in a series of Trusts. It also names an Executor and a Trustee. My son would have to do nothing except sign papers the trustee gives him and get used to having a nice train layout and American Flyer collection.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The Stage 1 GS used the 800CFM version of the Quadrajet and that engine made unreal amounts of torque. When Olds released the long stroke, undersquare engines, emissions limits had just arrived. The Olds engines excelled in low emissions, never required an air injector pump. Even the 455 which was square did not rev. The crank to piston wrist pin relationship was bad and the bottom end was weak. There is now a fix for the bottom end and high flow aluminum heads were introduced by the aftermarket. Still a lot easier to just build a Chevy engine. By the way, I thought the 375HP/396 came with a Holley.


Yes Tom the 396/375 hp did come with a 780 Holley. The 396/325 hp and 350 hp were Quadrajets. That Buick GS I spoke of that my friend races does indeed make a ton of torgue. As I recall it is around 400 ft. pounds. My friend has had the same body for those 20 years but has changed frames 3 times due to frame fatigue from twisting on launch. It will pull the left front wheel off the ground on take off. When you see a full bodied heavy car like that GS is do that, that is impressive! He has also had to weld the body floor as well. He has a Stage II engine in a gutted plain Buick Skylark for bracket racing but has never raced it. I did the heads for that engine. The port lay out and shape are way different than the Stage I heads. I don't remember the flow figures but remember after making a flow run I was so surprised at what I saw I started checking my flow bench settings. The water grains, barometric pressure, temperature and humidity calibrations. I did 2 more flow tests of each head and got within in 1 and a 1/2% on each flow test so I was satisfied of the accuracy. Then I ran a wet flow test with the intake bolted to the head I had on the flow table, I was even more impressed with those figures. I thought I would see some dropping or separation of the air/fuel (actually distilled water), at low lift. To my surprise it never occurred at any part of the valve opening using the cam lift figures he was using and the rockers he was using. That shows instant off the seat velocity. From immediate valve lift off the seat to full lift. Amazing! Don't ask me why he never raced that car. It still sits in his shop next to the other one. I would like to know what the car weighs since it is no more than a roll cage lightened body, plexiglass side windows, no door inards and an aluminum floor. Stock frame though, drilled out all the way down the frame sides. He has never said but my belief is after he changed frames on his other car, he might have thought lightning that frame maybe wasn't such a good idea.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

My dad bought a brand new Wildcat GS. Heavy car but ran good. Big motor.
Lots of skylark GS, very few Wildcat GS. Weakest part of the car was an aluminum
water pump. The torque of the motor would rip the bearings out of it. I don't know
how many he went through. He kept the car untill a few years of his death. Only
35000 miles on it. He paid around 5000.00 for it new. Expensive for a car in 1966.
He sold it for 12000 to a museum. The buyer said it was worth more but that's all he wanted to pay. My dad took it. I only saw one other Wildcat GS.

My dad always said his buick would beat my GTO. We never raced. I did not want
to crush him.


----------



## AmFlyer

The factory torque rating of the Stage 1 GS was 510 ft-lb gross. The Wildcat GS was a nice car, your dad made a great purchase. You are correct, your GTO would have won.
Kenny, the wet performance sounds like what you see with a roller lifter profile cam. Of course today all intake manifolds are dry.


----------



## mopac

My dad thought he wanted an electra 225. Would have been a bad buy. He took me to the dealership
to see a deuce and a quarter. I saw the wildcat and told him that's the car he should buy. Was not easy
but he came around.


----------



## AmFlyer

Except for the scratches in the paint that 953 looks perfect. I have never seen one of these restored to the original green. I have seen a number of these heavyweights repainted in the Royal Blue scheme to go behind the 350 Royal Blue streamlined engine. I have also seen them painted in the circus yellow as an added car in the circus train. That yellow and the red lettering is readily available.


----------



## flyernut

flyernut said:


> Still run a Quadra-jet on my Nova, I had 2 67's GTO's and both ran a Quadra-jet.My 69 Corvette also ran a Nova, my fastest car, 350/350hp..


I meant to say a "quadra-jet". Stupid brain...


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> My dad bought a brand new Wildcat GS. Heavy car but ran good. Big motor.
> Lots of skylark GS, very few Wildcat GS. Weakest part of the car was an aluminum
> water pump. The torque of the motor would rip the bearings out of it. I don't know
> how many he went through. He kept the car untill a few years of his death. Only
> 35000 miles on it. He paid around 5000.00 for it new. Expensive for a car in 1966.
> He sold it for 12000 to a museum. The buyer said it was worth more but that's all he wanted to pay. My dad took it. I only saw one other Wildcat GS.
> 
> My dad always said his buick would beat my GTO. We never raced. I did not want
> to crush him.


The only Wildcat I saw up close, because it was in the dealer's show room, had 2 fours on it. Is that what your dad had mopac? The salesman said that was an optional engine. I never followed up on that. The price for the time was a bit pricey.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

flyernut said:


> I meant to say a "quadra-jet". Stupid brain...


No matter. We knew what you meant. 

Kenny


----------



## flyernut

I think the Riviera had a 425 with dual quads.


----------



## AmFlyer

All the 1965 and 1966 Wildcat engines were 425inch Nailheads, so they made reasonable torque but were not performance engines. Buick offered a dual quad option on the Wildcat in 1965 and 1966. It was called the Wildcat GS and the dual quad parts were shipped in the trunk for dealer installation. The GS engine was rated at 360HP. In late 1966 Buick offered a factory dual quad called the Super Wildcat. The dual quads were Carter AFB's, not Rochester 4GC's.
In 1967 all multiple carbs went away with the arrival of the Quadrajet. Also the Nailhead was replaced with the modern design that became the 455.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today’s post is a car that you have never seen because it is likely one of a kind. Many years ago a company called Pennsylvania Heritage Models sold quality repaints of Gilbert cars in PRR colors and numbers. They did mostly hoppers, box cars and reefers. I have some of them and have posted some pictures in the past. This car was offered with knuckle couplers but I asked them to custom make one for me with link couplers. Here it is.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The factory torque rating of the Stage 1 GS was 510 ft-lb gross. The Wildcat GS was a nice car, your dad made a great purchase. You are correct, your GTO would have won.
> Kenny, the wet performance sounds like what you see with a roller lifter profile cam. Of course today all intake manifolds are dry.


Tom the wet flow bench test is used mainly to test fuel/air separation. Since fuel is heavier than air, if there isn't enough velocity to keep the two together, there will be hp loss to a certain degree as the fuel can drop away, separate, from the air flow, due to the liquid weight. How that test is determined is way too complicated to explain here. Proper port configuration prevents that and multi angle valve face/seat angles "round" the air from the port. Valve face grinding is a science all by it's self. That was where porting and polishing helped. I'm referring to race engines where optimum HP is needed. There would be a noticeable performance increase for street engines though. As I learned by my own flow tests, and I later confirmed from the big name cylinder head porters and manufactures in the Daytona trade shows, a slight port texture worked better to create turbulence to keep the air/fuel mixture suspended together. All that I have said only pertains to ohv engines whether roller or flat tappet carburetor engines, not today's FI engines with instant fuel delivery. Fuel delivery isn't dependent on engine internal signal as before. Back when I was fooling with cylinder heads and building race engines locally, the only FI was either on the early Corvettes or Hilborn. I tried a Hilborn injection set up once. Whole different ball game. Big learning curve. On my Pro Stock I learned the ins and outs of a tunnel ram sideways mounted 2 fours set up. That was enough of a learning curve. My hot rod street engines were all single Holley carbs of one size or another. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

My picture for today is, well a picture. actually it is an ad I cut from an old magazine. I have quite a number of old Life, Look, Collier's and and others. Some are in bad shape but good enough to cut ads of trains and cars from. The car ads hang on my shop walls.

Very nice Pennsylvania one of a kind custom flat car Tom.


----------



## mopac

Really nice car Tom. I love those trailers. Almost bought a set last week. I want a set.
I have a lionel flat with PRR trailers. Its brand new. Got it at a train show here. I think
it was 15.00. A good price in my books.

Kenny, my dads buick was a single 4 barrel. It was a 425. The chrome air filter had
465 torque stated on it. It had ribbed aluminum valve covers. Posi rearend. It would chirp the tires
shifting from first to second. Very nice ride on it. 5000.00 was an expensive car in 1966.

I bought a 1967 impala fast back and I think it was only 2700 brand new. It was a beauty.
Red with black interior. Not a race car but nice ride. 283 with 3 on the tree. No A/C. It came
from Michigan and that was not that uncommon. I really liked the car. At about 27000 miles
on it a tick in the engine developed. That really bugged me. I just could not get it out. I pulled the
valve covers and one of the valves was not moving at all. So I figured a bad cam. So I changed my
first cam. All went well. One lobe had gone completely round. Put the new cam in and tick was
gone. I had heard of cams going flat but that was my only experience with one.

Nice Daylight ad. Cool idea.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, where I was going with my comment is that roller cams have a steeper ramp so the flow velocity was faster sooner. That can help with keeping the fuel in suspension. 
The early FI still resulted in a wet manifold but with different atomization characteristics as you point out. Current FI systems are direct cylinder injection resuling in dry manifolds, ports and valves. The fuel rail pressure is 4k to 5k psi. The intake manifolds on my biturbos, there are two under the engine, one on each side are plastic and weigh about 8oz each. Shortly after we got it the left side intake failed at the seam bond between the two molded halves, threw a CEL and put the engine in limp mode. I happened to be at WOT when it failed. Restarting the engine cleared the CEL and it cold be driven normally until I got it in for repair as long as it was not driven hard.
Mopac, rounding off the cam lobes was a common Chevy problem, especially on 454's. Not so often on the 283's.


----------



## AmFlyer

I like those old ads. I have some as well hanging in my office. There used to be a guy at the DuPage show that brought large stacks of them to sell cut from newspapers and magazines. That is where I got mine.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Really nice car Tom. I love those trailers. Almost bought a set last week. I want a set.
> I have a lionel flat with PRR trailers. Its brand new. Got it at a train show here. I think
> it was 15.00. A good price in my books.
> 
> Kenny, my dads buick was a single 4 barrel. It was a 425. The chrome air filter had
> 465 torque stated on it. It had ribbed aluminum valve covers. Posi rearend. It would chirp the tires
> shifting from first to second. Very nice ride on it. 5000.00 was an expensive car in 1966.
> 
> I bought a 1967 impala fast back and I think it was only 2700 brand new. It was a beauty.
> Red with black interior. Not a race car but nice ride. 283 with 3 on the tree. No A/C. It came
> from Michigan and that was not that uncommon. I really liked the car. At about 27000 miles
> on it a tick in the engine developed. That really bugged me. I just could not get it out. I pulled the
> valve covers and one of the valves was not moving at all. So I figured a bad cam. So I changed my
> first cam. All went well. One lobe had gone completely round. Put the new cam in and tick was
> gone. I had heard of cams going flat but that was my only experience with one.
> 
> Nice Daylight ad. Cool idea.


Mopac that Wildcat was quite a ride even in the single 4 barrel 425 version. It was a nail head valve engine but a very torquey engine as you stated. Quite a ride for a heavy car. 

Mopac, I gotta say I have never heard of a 283 having ANY problems, especially a flat cam lobe. Did you have the intake off once and one of those steel eating squirrels get in there? 
Seriously though, I have had 283's in every size conceivable. 30 over 288, 60 over 292, and the best, 4" bore to a 301. All configurations were good runners in a 1962, or '63 light weight Chevy II bodys that had. Now that 301 was a screamer. When Chevrolet put it into the Z28 they called it a 302. If you do the math on a 3" stroke and 4" bore block you get just under 302 cubic inches so Chevrolet rounded up to 302. I can't tell you the number of guys back in the '60's and later that used that engine. Perfect rod to stroke ratio. If you really wanted to increase things, the 5.7" stock length connecting rods were replaced with 6" rods. Of course that takes a special piston with a higher wrist pin height and a little different camshaft since the piston on over length rods "stalls" a few degrees of crank rotation at the top of the stroke as the crank rolls over from TDC but that stall builds cylinder pressure since both valves are closed for an instant which is what the main benefit is. There are more but too much detail for here. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I like those old ads. I have some as well hanging in my office. There used to be a guy at the DuPage show that brought large stacks of them to sell cut from newspapers and magazines. That is where I got mine.


After I got out of the racing and engine building business, I started selling car parts at swap meets and had many of those ads mounted on poster board. They sold reasonably well. DuPage would have been a good place to find those ads for sure. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, where I was going with my comment is that roller cams have a steeper ramp so the flow velocity was faster sooner. That can help with keeping the fuel in suspension.
> The early FI still resulted in a wet manifold but with different atomization characteristics as you point out. Current FI systems are direct cylinder injection resuling in dry manifolds, ports and valves. The fuel rail pressure is 4k to 5k psi. The intake manifolds on my biturbos, there are two under the engine, one on each side are plastic and weigh about 8oz each. Shortly after we got it the left side intake failed at the seam bond between the two molded halves, threw a CEL and put the engine in limp mode. I happened to be at WOT when it failed. Restarting the engine cleared the CEL and it cold be driven normally until I got it in for repair as long as it was not driven hard.
> Mopac, rounding off the cam lobes was a common Chevy problem, especially on 454's. Not so often on the 283's.


You are correct in your comments regarding the steeper cam ramps. I think somewhere along the line the factory engineers figured that out after studying what some of their race teams attempts at fuel/air suspension were. Sounds like you got lucky that you were able to clear the CEL from limp mode. Since I worked in a GM dealership a lot of people weren't able to get out of limb mode. Of course my only experience was with the GM brand. 
Those 454's were indeed known for cam lobe problems. I could never figure out why since that block is essentially a 396/427 derivative with the same oiling passages not to mention same oil pumps. There are ways to improve oil flow to the camshaft area which we all knew and did. One of the things was to limit the oil to the rocker arms especially using rollers thereby forcing more oil to the cam area. That was just one thing. That was a general practice to any big blog that was destined for drag strip or dirt stock car racing. 

Kenny


----------



## Mike Keester

With all due respect, what does this have to do with trains?


----------



## AmFlyer

I think the CEL cleared because unless the turbo was up on boost not enough air came through the failed seam to retrigger the CEL. That was the tech's opinion as well. In order to find the failure the tech's had to do a smoke pressure test on the entire intake system The smoke under the engine then made the seam failure apparent.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, do you have a picture of that Lionel PRR TOFC? I don't think I have seen one.


----------



## mopac

I will try to find the car.
I found the car Tom. It was still in a plastic bag from the train show.
Its in a blue and yellow box. Item # is 6-48548. Car says built 2007
on it so probably built in 2007.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is spectacular, I need to find one of those.


----------



## mopac

I thought it was cool. Was glad to get it. My seller wanted 20.00 for it. I bought 4 or 5 cars
from him and offered 15.00 for it. I just checked ebay. There are 2 for sale. Sellers want
too much for them. One wants 46.00 and the other is 49.00. I checked sold ones. 2 have
sold in last month and half. One for 23.00 and one for 27.00. I will watch for a deal for you.
Worth in the 20s.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I think the CEL cleared because unless the turbo was up on boost not enough air came through the failed seam to retrigger the CEL. That was the tech's opinion as well. In order to find the failure the tech's had to do a smoke pressure test on the entire intake system The smoke under the engine then made the seam failure apparent.





AmFlyer said:


> I think the CEL cleared because unless the turbo was up on boost not enough air came through the failed seam to retrigger the CEL. That was the tech's opinion as well. In order to find the failure the tech's had to do a smoke pressure test on the entire intake system The smoke under the engine then made the seam failure apparent.


Yes that makes sense Tom. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I thought it was cool. Was glad to get it. My seller wanted 20.00 for it. I bought 4 or 5 cars
> from him and offered 15.00 for it. I just checked ebay. There are 2 for sale. Sellers want
> too much for them. One wants 46.00 and the other is 49.00. I checked sold ones. 2 have
> sold in last month and half. One for 23.00 and one for 27.00. I will watch for a deal for you.
> Worth in the 20s.


 Mopac that looks good. I have some of them too.That was a good deal you made. That car looks new. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, it is new in box. Never ran anyway. Thanks.


----------



## AmFlyer

The current guide lists the 48548 at $35 retail in mint condition. Usually shipping controls the total price at these small values.


----------



## mopac

Thanks. I did ok with it then. Hope you can find you one or two of them.
I know you like PRR cars.


----------



## AmFlyer

Time for another photo of the day. This is the 48225 TTOS 2002 convention car. It looks very good on the layout with the burnt orange, gray roof and white lettering. The plastic car holder inside the box is a brownish plastic as you can see.


----------



## mopac

Nice car. I like the colors also.

20 convention cars on ebay. They bring some money. Most sell for 50.00 to 180.00.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice very nice love the color. Enjoy


----------



## kvlazer22

Very cool car. 

Mopac, I was just checking them out on eBay too....pricey.


----------



## cole226

that is one sharp looking car.


----------



## mopac

Kvlazer22, yep, too nice for me. I don't like paying over 10.00 for a car. Hard to find any new
ones around 10.00. I do have some new Lionel for 15.00. I do not know what the retail price
is on a new Lionel. And do not know how much the convention cars are at the convention or
preorder. There is an O scale convention new UP box car I might buy. I think it is 21.00. From
around 2002. Its a good looking car.


----------



## AmFlyer

When I bought these convention cars I thought they were attractive schemes. The purchase supported the organization and they were not part of the Lionel catalog. In almost all cases I bought two, one to open and run and one to keep NOB in case they went up in value. The only two that at least doubled were the Salt Lake car I posted yesterday and the green Linde car I posted several weeks ago. Most sell at their OP or maybe 20% less. The purchase cost has varied a lot over the years, figure $45 average, but many of those were sold back 20 years ago when $45 was actually worth something.


----------



## mopac

AmFlyer said:


> When I bought these convention cars I thought they were attractive schemes. The purchase supported the organization and they were not part of the Lionel catalog. In almost all cases I bought two, one to open and run and one to keep NOB in case they went up in value. The only two that at least doubled were the Salt Lake car I posted yesterday and the green Linde car I posted several weeks ago. Most sell at their OP or maybe 20% less. The purchase cost has varied a lot over the years, figure $45 average, but many of those were sold back 20 years ago when $45 was actually worth something.


Thanks for the info Tom. I had no idea how much the convention cars were when they came out. I would say most are holding their price rather well. With some higher. A few lower. I think a good looking car always holds value. Not that we sell our stuff. LOL. I would have saved some money if early on I had picked one scale and maybe 2 or 3
railroads. I have sold very little if at all, and I have N, HO, S, O, and G. I think I just like all model trains. The last 3 years I have concentrated just on S. I have a nice collection for just being in it 3 or 4 years. LOL, well I have bought 2 or 3 O locomotives and a few cars in those 3 or 4 years. Did I mention I like model trains?


----------



## AmFlyer

I think the most expensive S gauge convention car was $69. The convention organizers figured out that going above $59 for an S gauge car tanked sales, unlike in O and Standard Gauge where they could sell a lot of cars at higher prices.
I have only S gauge trains along with some of the Hallmark train ornaments. Back when I was 22 I tried out N scale, that lasted less than a year. I did have some HO for about 10 years but gave all that to my brother. He has a small but nice collection of Gilbert HO. Liking and collecting model trains is a whole lot easier and cheaper than collecting exotic and muscle cars.


----------



## mopac

I have a bunch of the ornament trains. Had them all up to about 3 years ago. If I had known
they would run for 20 or 30 years I would have not started them.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I think the most expensive S gauge convention car was $69. The convention organizers figured out that going above $59 for an S gauge car tanked sales, unlike in O and Standard Gauge where they could sell a lot of cars at higher prices.
> I have only S gauge trains along with some of the Hallmark train ornaments. Back when I was 22 I tried out N scale, that lasted less than a year. I did have some HO for about 10 years but gave all that to my brother. He has a small but nice collection of Gilbert HO. Liking and collecting model trains is a whole lot easier and cheaper than collecting exotic and muscle cars.


Boy Tom, are you so correct comparing muscle car collecting to train collecting! I enjoyed my muscle cars too. However, I'll add that train collecting it's also a whole lot less expensive than drag racing, especially at the level I was with first gassers, then altereds, and finally early Pro Stock. Trains also take up way less room too. Parts is parts as the saying goes but train parts take up less room and no where as expensive as maintaining engine building parts. I know train layouts and a good size collection might take up some room but at least you don't have to have a race shop to house the cars, parts, and back up shop equipment machines. 


Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, you were racing your cars, that costs a lot as you say. Just collecting cars and taking a few of them to shows is expensive. A fellow member of a non profit board (that means we donate our time for free) I used to be on invited me to his house in Pasadena. He had a small collection of 40 cars in their own building on his property and employed a full time mechanic to keep them running and available for shows and parade events. A couple of his older cars are in the Rose Parade each year. My only thought was if the cars were sold off I could have several amazing train layouts in that space. I could even have a large permanent track for my 1962 AMT race sets.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I have one slot car set from when I was young. Indy 500 type cars.
Curves are banked. And you can fly. Not sure of the brand but thinking it
might be Marx. The set is very used. I liked it. If I get it out someday I
will take pics.
Back when there was slot car stores with large tracks. I did a lot of racing.
You brought your own car, had your own controller that plugged into the
store's track. And you paid for track time. Usually the store had one race
night a week. Winners got free track time. The cars were bigger scale cars
than what came in home sets. Seems like they were maybe 1/32 scale.
Most cars you started with a clear body. You painted the car on inside of
the body. That way you did not scratch your paint job. I had one car with
the power pickup arm on a hinge and I could pull a wheelie down the
straight away. Looked cool anyway. You try that in a curve and car would fly
off the track.


----------



## AmFlyer

We had a large banked racing track near us. It was for 1/32 cars. The track was built in the space that was formerly a train store. The one year only AMT sets were 1/24 scale and there were steering wheels to change lanes.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, you were racing your cars, that costs a lot as you say. Just collecting cars and taking a few of them to shows is expensive. A fellow member of a non profit board (that means we donate our time for free) I used to be on invited me to his house in Pasadena. He had a small collection of 40 cars in their own building on his property and employed a full time mechanic to keep them running and available for shows and parade events. A couple of his older cars are in the Rose Parade each year. My only thought was if the cars were sold off I could have several amazing train layouts in that space. I could even have a large permanent track for my 1962 AMT race sets.


I wouldn't consider 40 cars a small collection in terms of dollar value. The most I ever had at once was 5 not counting the 2 drag race cars. Since this person had a full time mechanic, I assume it was a nice collection not to mention being in the Rose Parade. I agree, that space would leave plenty of room for any sort of train layout or layouts. 
Now you and Mopac bring up slot car tracks. That reminds me that somewhere I have an Aurora or maybe Tyco large set with 4 cars. Obviously if I can't remember the brand it has been a while since I have seen it. I do remember there is no zip code on the box so it is pre-1973. One more thing I need to look for now. Great!! 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Slot cars sets were as popular as train sets at one time. Maybe more so in 60s and 70s.
50s belong to train sets. Lionel and American Flyer.


----------



## AmFlyer

We would not want you to be bored!
My brother was into slot cars as well as trains, it was a Tyco set, I will look for a picture. He put it on the HO train layout. Most people do not realize, nor do they care, that the cars in the HO sets actually scale out at 1/64.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here you go, a real oldie from what we can call the transition period.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Here you go, a real oldie from what we can call the transition period.
> 
> 
> View attachment 542210


Looks familiar though I never had my slot car track running with my railroad. I like it !! I just took a quick look for my slot car stuff but no luck. I guess it will take more than a quick look. More like and excavation. I will find it though. I did find an Erector set loose in a box!

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Woah! We need pictures of the Erector set, What number is it? I had a 1955 7 1/2 Engineers set but it is long gone.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

I hope you don't mind my tinkering with the colors AmFlyer.


----------



## AmFlyer

Great work Fred! You fixed the fade in the old Polaroid I scanned to post the picture. Thanks! I have a couple hundred more like this if you are up for it!!!


----------



## Mikeh49

I'm impressed too with the work. Thanks, Broke.


----------



## alaft61ri

Here is the 350 royal blue. Still need practice with dry transfers came out nice. Replaced 2 white walls they were cracked. Still need to paint white trim on nose. Notice i will have to replace middle axle or bushing has play side to side run good thogh.


----------



## mopac

I think it looks good. Nice job. Those axle bushngs can be replaced. Never done it.


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I had an erector set when I was a little guy. I remember playing with it,
but I have no idea what happened to it. I do not have a bolt or a nut from it. I
had one of those moms that threw things away if I did not use it this morning.
I am surprised I hung on to my 282 and a few cars.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Woah! We need pictures of the Erector set, What number is it? I had a 1955 7 1/2 Engineers set but it is long gone.


Tom as I said, that erector set is in a box. It is not in an Erector set box therefore there is no number. I will get pictures of it. I didn't have time tonight. Also have to find that slot car track set. No pressure. 
Bad memory and too much stuff are a bad combination. At least in my case. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I hope you don't mind my tinkering with the colors AmFlyer.


Nice job Broke. Did you do that with Photo Gallery in Windows?

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I had an erector set when I was a little guy. I remember playing with it,
> but I have no idea what happened to it. I do not have a bolt or a nut from it. I
> had one of those moms that threw things away if I did not use it this morning.
> I am surprised I hung on to my 282 and a few cars.


I had one of the larger Erector sets when I was a kid but have no idea what happened to it. My dad was good for throwing things out that he deemed useless. If my stuff wasn't in my room but was found laying some where else, I got one warning. If it wasn't picked up, it was gone. Luckily my American Flyer train set was nailed to a piece of 3/4" plywood and laid on my brother's and mine large bedroom floor so that never was moved. I do remember having some Buddy L, Structo, and Tonka trucks that were left out side and not picked up and disappeared. Wish I had those today! Valuable for sure although likely I would sell them for train money now. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I had some large trucks also. Big enough for me to ride on. I do not remember what brands they were. They disappeared. No idea what happened to them. I had a couple of semis. My favorite was a red cab and a blue trailer. They are worth some bucks today. I had 2 peddle cars. I really do not remember them but I have seen pics. I do have 2 other items. I have a very small rocking chair. I would say kids over 2 years old would not fit. I
also still have a Davey Crockett wood toy box. Its in very good shape. I remember the toy box being fllled. Its empty now. Where did those toys go? I guess I was a Davey Crockett fan. I had the Davey Crocket clothes. Leather fringe shirt , pants, and of coarse the **** skin hat. And I would think a rifle.


----------



## mopac

Another thing I played with a lot was a Kenner panel and girder Hydro Dynamic set. The set had 2 motorized pumps. Seems I remember it in my house but I do not think I still have it. May have sold at a garage sale. 2 pages of them on ebay. LOL, I sold mine way too cheap.
I think we had neater toys than kids today have. Damn, my Lincoln Logs are gone also.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

I also had an Erector set from the 50's, a birthday present long ago. I was hoping it might turn up while cleaning out Mom's house.No luck.
My introduction to tools.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

AFGP9 said:


> Nice job Broke. Did you do that with Photo Gallery in Windows?
> 
> Kenny


Yes, nice and easy!


----------



## AmFlyer

I had a Kenner Girder and Panel set and a Bridge set. Never had one of those Hydro Dynamic sets. All are long gone as is the Erector set. After some temptation I have made a firm decision not to reacqure any of those items.


----------



## AmFlyer

Pictured below is the 48354 2004 Southern Pacific boxcar. It is not a convention car but is is nicely painted and lettered. Note the truck side frames are brown and be sure to look at the fine lettering on the door. It says “Equipped to control insect infestation.”
All these cars are being unboxed for the first time, photographed and then put in service on the layout.


----------



## flyernut

I had a Buddy L pressed steel dump truck, and I used to ride it daily when I was young. It was my Dad's when he was a little boy, then I got it, and just 2 months ago, I gave it to my daughter for her two boys, my grandsons'.. I also have my Dad's standard gauge passenger set with all boxes from 1927, and a rare Mickey Mouse movie projector with various movies, including Felix the Cat, Betty Boop, etc.


----------



## mopac

Tom, great looking boxcar. I like the SP road. Uncommon for Lionel to paint the trucks.

Its cool some of us have some toys from our youth or at least we brought back some memories.


----------



## AFGP9

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Yes, nice and easy!


I have used Photo Gallery for years. Makes some of my so so pictures better for sure since I tend to take some pretty poor picture at times with my cell camera. I am thnking about going back to my digital Nikon since there is no difference in downloading to the Picture Gallery. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking SP box car Tom. Like mopac, I like the SP. It used to run close to me for years. I mile away to be exact. When the Union Pacific and the SP merged, you would still see SP engines, then a mixture of UP and SP engines in lash ups. Finally the newer SP engines got a repaint to UP colors. There is still a SP SD 45 and a Cotton Belt GP 38 that will run the daily local 10-12 car drop off and pick up. Besides 2 UP engines running the daily, you might see a UP and either the Cotton Belt GP 38 or the SP SD 45 hooked with the UP engine. Sometimes the Cotton Belt and the SP are together. (Shades of the past) Since I still live a mile from the tracks, plus Old Rt. 66 parallels the tracks, a road I use daily, I see that daily often in one form or another taking cars north to several towns. There is a south bound local also. There is a small yard in Bloomington, Il which is a 6 track remnant of the old GM&O then the GM&O/IC system. They keep 10 engines there. I've been there several times and have seen a main line train drop off and pick up empty's. Since most of the UP trains are 150 car container freights, there aren't many mixed freight trains that do that.
If a person wanted to model a switching layout, this would be a perfect prototype since there is a lot of switching. Plus, once the train makes the curve out of Bloomington, it is nothing but straight track for at least 80 miles so nothing complicated.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I will post a picture of my SP engine later.
Last week I did quite a bit of experimentation taking layout pictures with both my iPhone and my Nikon. For most purposes the iPhone is the best choice because it is so fast to capture the picture. The Nikon, in aperture priority mode, on a tripod, with a 2 pound piece of zoom lens glass attached can get pictures of the layout the iPhone just cannot capture. It is rare I need to do that. 
I post all pictures from an iPad because I have a well organized folder system on it, I back that up to a Macbook Air and to a 4 Terabite drive. The Dell Latitude I use as my main personal computer is, for me, harder to use for picture filing and making slideshows.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is my SP engine from American Models. I left this one unmodified, no TMCC/Railsounds so I do not run it on the layout. The pilot is not attached to the boiler, that is why it looks a little off at the lower front of the engine.


----------



## mopac

Good looking pacific steamer Tom.
I think you need more locomotives. Just kidding.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kid all you want. I have two of the cataloged Legacy Berkshires on order, I am hoping they get made this time.


----------



## Mikeh49

If only they had provided a vanderbilt oil tender for that Pacific.


----------



## AmFlyer

I saw a prototype at S Fest but despite there being a picture of it on the AM site, there seems to be no way to order one right now.


----------



## AFGP9

Good looking SP engine Tom.


----------



## mopac

In another thread today mentioned my Lionel diesel sets. I have showed these before but we do have some new guys
and I do not have anything else to show. I found pics of 3 of the sets. Could not find any of my repro Pony Express (UP). I will take some of the UP if sun ever comes out again.


----------



## kvlazer22

Fantastic sets!


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac looking at those trains never gets old. Post them every once in a while when the mood strikes.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

They look good on the wall, long and straight. Too bad there is no easy way to put a return loop at both ends for some outdoor summer running.


----------



## mopac

Return loops would be cool. I was looking at Gargraves track yesterday. Gargraves says
their Stainless Steel track is suitable for outside. One problem is not one of my trains could survive a fall from top of wall. It just could not happen.


----------



## AmFlyer

A fall to the ground would be a real tragedy. A catch fence or something else would be a lot more work.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac reposted some nice Lionel Flyer sets. I thought I could do one as well as the beginning of some posts of “cabooses with matching engines.” I posted pictures of this first one many months ago, but not its correct engine mate.
The NP 48711 Black/gold caboose was made in 1995 to match with The NP 48014 GP9, also made in 1995. They look good together, I bought them as a pair in 1995. The 48711 was done using the same mold design as Gilbert used.
In 2010 the 48161 Legacy U33C was made in black/gold. This engine and caboose see a lot of running time on my layout.


----------



## mopac

The black/gold scheme does look good. Nice equipment. 
The GP9 is one good looking locomotive.


----------



## AmFlyer

The GP9 was run a lot when I first got it. Worked well, never any issues with it.


----------



## kvlazer22

Love that combo, great color combination.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The GP9 was run a lot when I first got it. Worked well, never any issues with it.


Great color combination. As my screen name implies, I do like GP9's. As a kid I remember many black Illinois Central GP9's and that green triangle on the side. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I have a geep IC in HO. Black with the green triangle.


----------



## AmFlyer

Not part of my “engines with matching cabooses” series but here is a PRR GP9 I run on the layout. Some of the operational dust is visible on it.


----------



## AFGP9

My contribution to the photo of the day. All cars are new straight from my display case. The pictures of the Railway Express and New York Central cars are a bit blurred but I got tired of taking picture of those two over and over so those will have to do. Don't know why I couldn't get them to come out better.

Kenny
























AmFlyer said:


> Not part of my “engines with matching cabooses” series but here is a PRR GP9 I run on the layout. Some of the operational dust is visible on it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 542538


 Nice Tom. Operational dust adds character. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

My photo of the day is what I have been working on. I now find my self out of the base cover screws. Does anybody have a PN and size? I thought I kept that information but for the life of me I cannot find it. Same screws fit the lantern cover too as I'm sure everybody knows. I've tried plenty of the suppliers but none give a description of the screw they show and so far I find they are using their PN. I thought the screw PN was S279 but not sure. There are a couple more I haven't gotten to on the bottom RH corner of the picture and one stray at the top in the LH corner.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a great selection of TOFC's!


----------



## AmFlyer

It is an S279.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> It is an S279.





AmFlyer said:


> It is an S279.


Thanks for that information regarding the screw. As bad as my memory is, I am surprised I remember that PN Tom. Also thanks for the kind words regarding my TOFC's. Some where I have 2 different numbers of the Monon American Flyer red and blue TOFC's and the loading/unloading ramp that goes with one of them. I suspect when I find the ramp I will find both of those cars too. I have got to get things cleaned up and organized. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

LOL, good luck on getting organized. Seems more stuff you get the harder to keep it all
straight. The flats with trailers are cool.


----------



## AmFlyer

I was about to say I posted pictures of the only two TOFC's I had, The PRR with the Erector trailers and the Christmas REA, Reindeer Express Agency. Then you reminded me of the original 23830 Piggyback Unloader and Car set that I have.


----------



## mopac

I only have one flat with trailers. Hope to add more. Hard to find them for a price I
am looking for. 15.00 to 20.00.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> LOL, good luck on getting organized. Seems more stuff you get the harder to keep it all
> straight. The flats with trailers are cool.


Mopac, about wanting to get things cleaned up and better organized, I think you hit on the problem. We all add to the problem by adding new stuff. Just this one more thing......
It's still a thought without a completion. Thanks for your kind words regarding the TOFC's. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I was about to say I posted pictures of the only two TOFC's I had, The PRR with the Erector trailers and the Christmas REA, Reindeer Express Agency. Then you reminded me of the original 23830 Piggyback Unloader and Car set that I have.


Glad I could be of help with that reminder about your 23830 Piggyback Unloader. lol

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I have no intention of looking for the 23830 but someday I will stumble across it while looking for something else.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I have no intention of looking for the 23830 but someday I will stumble across it while looking for something else.


That seems to be what I have been doing lately, looking for one thing and stumble across another thing. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Today we have another set in the “engines with matching cabooses” series. This set is the 48715 Milwaukee Road caboose made in 1997. The matching engine, the 48020 Milwaukee Road GP9 was made in 1998. These look good as a set. 
There are 5 additional cabooses in the one picture.


----------



## mopac

Orange is a good color for train equipment. I like your "Matching caboose" series of pics.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom thanks for posting yet another GP 9 and matching caboose. I have always thought that orange and black Milwaukee Road colors were one of the sharpest color combinations. Right up there with the Northern black and gold. I see you have some link cars converted to knuckle's, the 639 reefer and a 640 hopper.
I have an affinity for caboose's so seeing those other caboose's is treat. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyerFan

I agree. That Orange & Black Milwaukee Road set looks sharp!


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, it is hard to tell from that last picture but none of my link coupler cars have been converted to knuckles. The 640 Wabash is a two spring short truck link coupler. The 639 is a transition car, it connects the 640 to the Sunoco Tank car plus the UP hopper and UP caboose shown in the second picture. If you look at the cut of cars just behind the support piers the green GAEX is also a transition car connecting the Rio Grande to the MKT. I have link coupler cars where I break cuts of cars in the yard because at scale switching speeds the links work 100% of the time, the knuckles at best 25% of the time. The electro couplers on the new engines work and the AM couplers work so I can mate those in the yards.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom now that you have pointed out the 640's short link coupler, I do see it and also the transition 639 connecting the tank car and the 640 hopper. Also the GAEX car. I only use 3 transition cars. To be honest, I have never paid attention to the link length, only the type. Now I will have to look. Are all short length link cars 2 spring trucks? I have 2 and 3 spring truck cars. 
You mentioned the fact that when switching yard cars, links work 100% of the time and knuckles at best 25% of the time. I use AF electric uncouplers in my yard and on sidings. While not prototypicaly correct looking, they do work. I have ground cover around all of them so they don't visually stick out too much. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I did not mean to say the link coupler length is different on two and three spring trucks. What I did a poor job of explaining is I only run the 2 spring 640 Wabash cars because with the longer 3 spring trucks the wheels rub on the bottom of the hopper body on curves.
I also have the uncouplers on my layout. They work fine with the Gilbert knuckles but not with the Lionel Flyer ones. Any car from Lionel that came in a blue box has couplers that do not work reliably and only open half as wide as the Gilbert couplers. Those cars just stay permanently connected, no switching. Even the Gilbert knuckle couplers do not couple reliably. The are sometimes misaligned on curves and some need to be banged together to close. If original Gilbert engines are used that happens automatically. When running a modern Legacy engine at scale switching speeds it is hard to pick up one car, the car rolls behind the engine without the coupler closing. On Legacy speed step one or two I can push a cut of 5 cars down the track without the couplers closing.


----------



## AmFlyer

Two pictures, one shows my test track on the floor after it grew but before I got all the cars on the track. The other shows an uncoupler and an action car actuator rail on a siding.


----------



## mopac

Going along with "Matching Caboose" and "Orange and Black". A BNSF I like.
Yes, its O scale, but still nice. The Geep has railsounds. Runs extremely well.


----------



## AmFlyer

It is nice, too bad we cannot get items like that in S gauge. 
It looks like you are missing some insulation between those wall studs.


----------



## AmFlyer

Orange is nice. I have a lot more red than orange cabooses, so here is another red.
Gilbert made the good looking Seaboard Baldwins but never a Seaboard caboose. I included a repost of the Gilbert engines. I bought a Seaboard SW-1 when AM released them and ran it a lot on layouts. When Lionel released the 48724 Seaboard caboose in 2003 it joined the fleet looking good behind the SW-1.


----------



## mopac

Very nice. LOL, red is a good color also. Nice locomotives.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice looking locomotives and matching caboose behind the SW-1.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today’s caboose with matching engines is a UP bay window. The obvious choice for the mate is the Gilbert 372 GP-7. I did not have one out so the new FlyerChief GP-7 is standing in for the 372. It looks better behind the Legacy SD70ACe because the yellows match. Kind of surprising the yellows on the two engines are different since they were both made by Lionel at the same time. I also have an AM SW9 in UP livery. The SW9 looks the same as the SW1 above, just bigger.
Despite the matching diesels I usually run the UP caboose at the end of trains pulled by the Big Boy or the UP Challenger steam engines.


----------



## AFGP9

Looks good since I am partial to the UP.


----------



## AmFlyer

For those of us who like the UP here is the UP E8 that is assigned to passenger train duty.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice Tom. Thanks for showing. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

No need for a matching caboose, the whole train matches.


----------



## mopac

Great pics Tom. 8321 is one fine looking locomotive.


----------



## alaft61ri

That is really nice like the all yellow nice layout.


----------



## AmFlyer

To close out the week here is a picture of the entire UP passenger train. Unfortunately this picture also makes evident that in three years I have not made time to install the Maple veneer on the layout sides.


----------



## alaft61ri

Beautiful nice looks great


----------



## alaft61ri




----------



## alaft61ri

This the photos of my new extended layout. Not done yet still have moore work. To do


----------



## alaft61ri

This the first half.


----------



## mopac

Looking good. Bigger is always better.


----------



## BrokeCurmudgeon

alaft61ri said:


> This the first half.
> View attachment 542989
> View attachment 542990


Very nice!


----------



## AFGP9

Looks like the add on is working out just fine. Very Nice!!

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks like a lot of progress with more empty space waiting to be utilized. Now that the pesky 600 gate project is behind you there will be more time for other additions.


----------



## mopac

Got my Southern flat car with 2 trailers today. Happy with it. A little shelf wear on box,
but not bad. New in box. Unrun from 1984. Made in Mexico. Seller had buy it now at
@25.00 or best offer. I offered 20.00 and seller accepted. All most bought a flat with
2 American Flyer trailers today. Seller said brand new but then reading on it was a car
he put together. It did not have the rack to hold trailers so I did a Texas on it, El Paso.
I think it was 24.99 plus shipping.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thankyou everyone.very nice cool looking.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice, I do not see Southern cars very often. You seem to get these things inexpensively, I wonder if my zip code causes me to see higher prices!?!?!?


----------



## mopac

Tom, I do a lot of looking. Another PRR got listed and they want 64.99. I got mine for 15.00 new. I missed a decent price on a REA flat with trailers today. I guess you can't get them all.
I never saw it till it was over. I watch "ending soonest", "Recent listings", and "completed".


----------



## AmFlyerFan

alaft61ri said:


> This the first half.
> View attachment 542989
> View attachment 542990


As others have said, you have a nice layout. What's the approximate size (length X width)? Thanx.
Homer T.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I stay off of EBAY. Maybe once per quarter I will do a generic "american flyer trains" search to see what is listed.


----------



## mopac

I would have very little Flyer stuff without ebay. I have no good train shops, no good train shows around here. I would rather hold and see items in person before buying. Its just not possible for me. I get things from ebay that are not what I thought they were but over all I have had good luck on ebay. I forget the Flyer number but I want one of those Gulf oil depots. I have not been able to get a nice one for a price I will pay. I was watching
one last week I liked. It was hanging around 30.00 ( my price range) and then shoots to almost 100.00. To my knowledge they don't do anything. 100.00 for an item that does not do anything is out of my price range. I will get one, its just going to take some time.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a 768G you want. The most recent guide says the Shell sells for $113 and the Gulf for $170, both in excellent condition. I wanted a Gulf but bought a Shell. Even back in 1990 when I bought it the Gulf’s were expensive. 
I bought most of my collection before there was an eBay.
Here is a picture of the 768 on a layout.


----------



## alaft61ri

My layout is 5 feet wide by 15 feet long cant go any bigger but i was thinking i could add a 1x 9 board to go around on top. Originally it was 5 feet x 10 feet. The larger mountain was originally a winter mountain so iam right know painting the trees. Waiting for hobby shop to reopen so i can by the grass to spread on and other things. Thankyou.

Al


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice layout.


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## mopac

I just can not figure why the oil depots are so expensive. They are just a base, 2 tanks just like the ones on the tank cars, and a hut, and a little piping. What am I missing. Maybe I should destroy 2 tank cars and build my own depot. What else does the depot do except sit there quietly? I think the tanks should be bigger. The tanks are even numbered the same as tanks on the cars. LOL, I hate bugs, but I would rather eat a bug than pay 100.00
or more for a depot. I guess I will not have one. I can live with that. That's when you get in trouble, wanting something so bad you will pay anything.


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## AmFlyer

It is nice to have will power, or is it won't power? I think the price is as always, supply and demand. The 768G is listed with a rarity of 3+, so they do not show up in Ex condition very often. The Shell is listed as a 3, but there are more buyers who want the Gulf variation. You are correct, it does nothing but gather dust, not even a light on it.
Good thing you do not want a Boys at the Crossing display like I did. That acquisition was a display of my will power, the will to pay whatever it took.


----------



## AFGP9

Like you mopac, I too have my price limit. I have always wanted a Shell or a Gulf too. I have never seen them sell for what I consider a decent price. Seems always over $100 for just average and more for Exc. or LN, if they show up. I have never figured out why except supply and demand. Like Tom said, it sounds like you got more Won't Power. Same with me. Just a dust gatherer but we seem to want one though. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

My Photo of the day is a discovery in my endeavors to clean up under my layout. My layout top is 4 feet across as is the shelving under it so plenty of shelf space in














4' x 18' on 2 sides to get stuff shoved to the back way too many times and forgotten about. It is especially aggravating when the guy who put the stuff on those shelves with only the label "AF" or "Flyer Stuff" on the boxes and no more information years ago or in some cases, no label, was me. In the last 10 years or so I have a better labeling system. I also have an inventory list.....well sort of. Ya gotta keep it up to date. So another list is in progress. All were found together. I have been watching for a 300 with the indented side tender for some time. I knew I had another 300 somewhere but didn't remember it being the indented tender version. Glad I didn't buy one of the ones I have seen. Except for the 633, all the truck springs are not very well defined so the dies must have been worn out when they were stamped.


----------



## AmFlyer

It is hard to tell from the picture but the lettering on the 300 and tender appears white. If so it would be a 1947 with a thick shank coupler. If the lettering is silver it can be either 1946 or 1947, the coupler would indicate production year. Nice to find out you already had one. I have no indented tenders in my collection.
Years ago I replaced all the cardboard boxes with transparent plastic storage tubs. I can at least see the type of things inside and they stack well. Keeps everything clean and they are not attractive to cardboard and glue feeding insects.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, if you buy a nice Gulf Oil Supply Depot then you may decide you need a couple of the 773 Gulf logo Oil Derricks to go with it. That would not be good. Current guide price for the ones with the Gulf logo Is $775! Rarity listing for them is 5.
Much better to just do what I did. Buy some cheap plastic storage tank models, paint them white with Gulf logo decals.


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## mopac

Those Gulf tanks look great. Good job.


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## alaft61ri

I agree i been seeing those for that price. I rather spend the money on a crane or the coal or barrel loader.
Al


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## alaft61ri

My brother-inlaw pick this book up for me. Pretty cool hers is some photos of it.


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## AmFlyer

Great book, nice gift, very thoughtful.


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## AFGP9

Great score 


AmFlyer said:


> It is hard to tell from the picture but the lettering on the 300 and tender appears white. If so it would be a 1947 with a thick shank coupler. If the lettering is silver it can be either 1946 or 1947, the coupler would indicate production year. Nice to find out you already had one. I have no indented tenders in my collection.
> Years ago I replaced all the cardboard boxes with transparent plastic storage tubs. I can at least see the type of things inside and they stack well. Keeps everything clean and they are not attractive to cardboard and glue feeding insects.


Tom the tender lettering is white. With that indention on the side I think it may be a challenge to re-letter. I'm thinking dry rub for when I get to restoring the 300. Unfortunately the link coupler is broken off right at the pin so not much of a chance of using that for ID. 
I have a lot of those clear plastic storage bins. Mine are a frame and straight sided drawer assembly design so I can pull the bins out. They are also designed to stack. I don't think they are available in that square sided design any more. I've seen some similar but have a curved front. I bought those from K-MART. The bad news is they are all filled with 2000 Hot Wheels and Matchbox left over from the days when I was buying and selling that stuff. I should take all that stuff out and put my Flyer collection in them. Still hoping to unload all the Hot Wheels and Matchbox.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny, if you buy a nice Gulf Oil Supply Depot then you may decide you need a couple of the 773 Gulf logo Oil Derricks to go with it. That would not be good. Current guide price for the ones with the Gulf logo Is $775! Rarity listing for them is 5.
> Much better to just do what I did. Buy some cheap plastic storage tank models, paint them white with Gulf logo decals.
> 
> 
> View attachment 543107


Nice looking Tom. I have 4, 4" PVC pipe pieces that I used. In some of my postings they are visible in the back ground along with my Lionel 455 Sunoco pumping oil derrick. As far as the 773 Gulf logo Oil Derricks go, I wanted a couple but price has stopped me. I just looked in my Greenberg's and saw the $775 figure! I guess I will stay with the 455. There are 3 variations of it as well but none come up to the $775 price. Are those Gulf oil tanks a set that I can buy from a vender?


----------



## AmFlyer

They were an HO kit model, I do not recall the brand at the moment, they were listed in the Walthers catalog.
Since the lettering is white the 300 is a 1947 and would have had a thick shank, no weight coupler. The coupler pins are different for the thin or thick shank couplers so if the pin is still present that will work for identification.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Tom. I will check the pin.


----------



## AmFlyer

I promised Mopac I would look for my 5312T set. Imagine my surprise when it was in the first place I looked! I decided to post it in this thread so it will not get lost. I also decided to do what Mopac does and take the pictures outside.
The set box label has the legible set number, the set box from GAIR is dated 1953 and is the reported box number. Next is all the paper included in the set and the manual uncoupler. The boxes for the cars and the wrapper for the engine are shown.
The cars make a great consist, they all have the longer 3 spring trucks And the Gulf tank car is the correct 625G version for 1953.
The engine is interesting. It is the 5 wire with red glowing smoke but it has the thin letter, sans serif AFL stamping rather than the thick letter sans serif AF stamping on the 1953 302 I posted earlier today in the other thread. I did some looking under the shell and found the date stamp, DEC 52. The factory made thIs 5 wire version of the 302 in DEC and apparently stockpiled some for inclusion in the 1953 sets. The only reported variation with AFL has silver lettering, not white, so this seems to be an unreported variation.


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## AFGP9

Nice set Tom.


----------



## kvlazer22

Very nice.


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## mopac

Nice 5312T Tom. Excited to get mine. Even though I am getting the wrong engine. Your box looks a lot better. I will pick up correct loco some day. Seller said the transformer was missing but he was sending one. I have no idea which one he is sending. I can use it as some testing power. Seller said box was rough so you know it is. The label looks good. I
am not a cardboard collector so we shall see what I do with box. The cardboard for these
old sets is getting old. It just rots after a while. Great to see some of your outdoor pics.

I do not think I am getting an engine wrapper.


----------



## alaft61ri




----------



## AmFlyer

Continuing the series of posts about engines and matching cabooses we have a caboose in search of a matching engine. The caboose is an Erie in the maroon and gray color scheme. On the layout there are two Erie steam engines, a light Pacific and a Berkshire. The caboose usually rides behind one of them. There are three diesels as well in the maroon/gray colors but the colors are reversed to match the passenger car scheme.
Here they are, a Legacy U33, a TMCC Trainmaster, and a TMCC E8. The E8 is not a candidate because it is assigned to passenger train duty.


----------



## mopac

Great looking trains Tom. Thanks for showing.


----------



## alaft61ri




----------



## AFGP9

I have dug out some more packed away cars for today's post. Making progress in my reorganization using those clear plastic bins that I already have instead of using boxes, most of which I never labeled. I was especially glad to find the 1996 TTOS Western Pacific. It is on my inventory list but haven't been able to find it. The three cars shown are new, never out of their boxes. 

Tom I checked my MKT yellow car like mopac has and it is not a painted version. Of course not. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The REA Reefer should go on the layout. They look good and work with any railroad. Might keep the WP in the OB for now.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The REA Reefer should go on the layout. They look good and work with any railroad. Might keep the WP in the OB for now.


Yes I have had the same thoughts about the REA reefer. Just can't force myself to take it out yet. I'm sure I will though.


----------



## mopac

Nice cars Kenny. Very funny, I got a REA reefer car in my mailbox today. I have wanted one since Tom showed his. Mine is a 1993 NASG commemorative reefer. 6-48481. Got it for 19.99 plus shipping. A good price I think. Never out of box. Unrun. Quickly becoming one of my favorite boxcar/reefer.


----------



## mopac

Not sure why I am buying all these cars. A Gilbert steamer can only pull 3 to 5 cars without spinning
the drivers. Would be cool if they could pull 20 to 30 cars. Pulmor wheels would be the only chance
and I have very few of them.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have a number of REA cars (plus one Reindeer Express Agency car), but not that one. The guide says it is worth $78.


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## AmFlyer

My 322AC pulls 10 cars on flat track, no issue. None are the heavy diecast flats like a crane car. Even the 370 will pull five to seven freights or four HW passenger cars. wonder what is going on.


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## mopac

LOL, I have not tried many on a Hudson. Mainly a 282 (plastic body) or a 302 (plastic body). Old cars that I had not cleaned the axles and wheels. My fault. So I got a good REA. Thanks for info. I love it. Like you say, it will go with anything. I think I got my 928 flat car settled. Seller was hoping whoever he sent it to would stand up and tell him. I told him I doubt that would happen, so he settled up today. He sent me a message saying he was going to refund all my money. 27.00 something plus shipping. I sent him a message saying I did not want to take advantage of the situation, just refund me 17.00. He told me to keep all the cars. I went back to the auction and he had already refunded all the money. I will buy more of his cars and pay too much. I had not heard from him for 2 days and I was getting a little perturbed. He made it right. I will get pics in a few minutes of the cars I did get.


----------



## mopac




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## AmFlyer

You got some nice cars their Mopac. Even the 24030 looks ok out in the sunlight.
It makes a big difference if all the wheels are clean and the axles well lubricated. To be fair though, my 322AC was pulling the cars on 30"R track, SHS sectional. I am not sure if there is any difference in adhesion between the Gilbert steel track and the SHS NS solid rail track.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I had been keeping mine boxed for posterity. When I got them out to photograph last month I thought why am I hiding them away? They are now on the layout.


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## mopac

Thanks Tom. The cars are in good condition.


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## AFGP9

Nice cars mopac. That REA car looks fine!

Tom now that I see you put your cars out on your layout and your reasoning for doing so makes me think. That REA car sure stands out. Mine have never been hidden but in one of my glass show cases with 25 others. The casual visitor, which are few, would probably care less. So why am I leaving them in the case? I just won a new 6-48485 1994 NASG Northern Pacific box car on eBay. All in it was $42.51. Actually it was a "Buy It Now" deal. I didn't buy it because it was a new NASG box car. I just liked the looks of it! No other reason. That makes 2 wins now. Greenberg says $74. Actual car cost was $31.99. That was the other reason I bought it.
I will post it when I get it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac (and other interested readers), we were commenting yesterday about how many cars a stock Gilbert link coupler engine could pull. I was bored after lunch today so I decided to run a test with a 1953 5 wire 302 steam engine. I already knew my 322AC Hudson would easily pull 10 freight cars around my office floor test track. Said test track was taken apart so the cleaning crew could vacuum my office.
I happen to have a 14 car freight sitting on Line 2 of my layout. I added a coupler transition car and coupled on the 302 to the resulting 15 car freight. I also put 25 drops of smoke fluid in the stack. Line 2 looks level in the pictures but that is because a 15’, 2.3% grade is hidden in a long tunnel.
The 302 took off, smoking like crazy but it was on a 1% downgrade. It leveled off over the river bridge, entered the tunnel and started up the 2.3% grade, slowing down a bit. Near the top the wheels were slipping but the train continued moving along. The wheel spin stopped as soon as the engine was on level track and the train then made 4 loops of the 80’ long loop Without issue. The transformer was around 1/2 throttle, maybe 2/3rds. I must disclose that only the transition car was a Gilbert. The other 14 are a mix of AM and SHS cars. These are more free rolling but heavier. That helps on the level but hurts on the upgrade.
So there is hope for running longer trains with well lubed rolling stock. Here are two pictures, one the engine smoking and moving just after it reached level track, the other stopped on a 1% downgrade. The train is so long I could not get the last four cars in the picture.


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## alaft61ri

Cool nice i 👍


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## mopac

Tom, Thanks for info on the 302. How a car rolls makes a big difference.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom nice idea and picture of the train you assembled. I have always thought that the 302 has never gotten the respect it deserves. For that matter all of the 300-307 Atlantics. I think they all pull well. Don't get me wrong, Pacifics and Hudson's are bigger and might look better to some, but still the Atlantics are great. I think the biggest benefit to pulling a long string of cars is to make sure they are free rolling by lubricating the axle ends and proper gauging of the wheels.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> LOL, I have not tried many on a Hudson. Mainly a 282 (plastic body) or a 302 (plastic body). Old cars that I had not cleaned the axles and wheels. My fault. So I got a good REA. Thanks for info. I love it. Like you say, it will go with anything. I think I got my 928 flat car settled. Seller was hoping whoever he sent it to would stand up and tell him. I told him I doubt that would happen, so he settled up today. He sent me a message saying he was going to refund all my money. 27.00 something plus shipping. I sent him a message saying I did not want to take advantage of the situation, just refund me 17.00. He told me to keep all the cars. I went back to the auction and he had already refunded all the money. I will buy more of his cars and pay too much. I had not heard from him for 2 days and I was getting a little perturbed. He made it right. I will get pics in a few minutes of the cars I did get.


Mopac, it sounds like you found an honest seller. Glad things worked out.

Kenny



mopac said:


> LOL, I have not tried many on a Hudson. Mainly a 282 (plastic body) or a 302 (plastic body). Old cars that I had not cleaned the axles and wheels. My fault. So I got a good REA. Thanks for info. I love it. Like you say, it will go with anything. I think I got my 928 flat car settled. Seller was hoping whoever he sent it to would stand up and tell him. I told him I doubt that would happen, so he settled up today. He sent me a message saying he was going to refund all my money. 27.00 something plus shipping. I sent him a message saying I did not want to take advantage of the situation, just refund me 17.00. He told me to keep all the cars. I went back to the auction and he had already refunded all the money. I will buy more of his cars and pay too much. I had not heard from him for 2 days and I was getting a little perturbed. He made it right. I will get pics in a few minutes of the cars I did get.


I forgot to mention the sharp looking REA car you have there.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

After my last post I put the 322AC on the layout for comparison, pulling the same consist. Interestingly the drivewheels began slipping at the same point on the grade, there was less slipping and less slowdown. The Hudson pulls better but the difference from the 302 is much less than I expected. Tomorrow afternoon I will try a 342 and see what happens. For those who do not run trains that long 15 cars is a long train.


----------



## mopac

I added some lead to my 282 plastic body. Not a whole bunch but some. Thought it might help with pulling. Not sure if it did or not. I think pulmor traction tires would help the most.

Yes, 15 cars is a long train. I would be happy with 8 to 10. LOL, it takes a large layout to have a 15 car train in S scale.


----------



## AmFlyer

As promised I got out a 342AC to see how well it would pull the 15 cars around Line two and up the 2.3% grade. The answer is it pulled the train slightly better than the 322AC Hudson which I did not expect, with one caveat. The 342AC was able to start the train on the grade from a dead stop, there was wheel spinning but it started moving and came up to speed.
Of the three the Hudson was the best and easiest to run on the layout with up and down grades. It gained the least speed downhill and was easy to add throttle uphill without over doing it and getting a lot of wheel spin. The 342AC was the hardest to run and required constant attention. It would dramatically overspeed downhill and then stall out uphill. Constant throttle movement over a wide range was necessary to run it. This engine is better on level track, but it does have traction.
I coupled up a TMCC NYC light Pacific to pull the train onto Line 1 for a picture. The traction tires, cruise control and 100 speed steps are really nice compared to conventional running on a layout with grades. If you count the cars there are 14. That is because the transition car to connect to a link coupler engine is not needed. The stream of smoke from the stack is from the smoke at idle feature these engines have.


----------



## mopac

Very nice Tom. I am surprised the little switcher did so good. Nice pic. I bought a beautiful set of O scale Alco PA A-B-A engines. I only run conventional. These locos had TMCC and seller sent them to me with the TMCC activated. Gave me fits for awhile. The cruise control was on and no matter what I did with the throttle the engines ran at the same speed. Cruise control would take care of all that throttle control you had on the Gilbert engines, well, if
they had Tmcc. I found an owners manual online and it told how to take them out of TMCC with a transformer. It worked. Those PAs are very cool. They have motorized fans on the roof. They may even have smoke. If so I have it turned off. Seller said he had not used the smoke. They were from a forum member. I have bought a few O scale engines from forum members. They sell them cheap compared to new and they are only slightly used. They have so many engines they don't use any of them much.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, The O gauge Lionel engines are nice. The way they work is the Cruise control function will always be on in Conventional mode. Somewhere on the engine there will be a Program/Run switch and a Smoke On/Off switch plus a volume control. Might be under the engine on the chassis or on top under a liftoff hatch. Here is a picture of one of my S gauge engines with the hatch removed.
The Smoke On/Off is self explanatory. If it has smoke do not let the reservoir run dry. Start with 25 drops and every 15 ninutes of running add another 15 drops. In Conventional mode the PGM/Run switch is the direction sequence lock just like the lever under the Flyer tenders. The PGM side locks it and Run allows it to sequence normally. The Railsounds can be accessed on most of the engines with the bell and whistle buttons. A long push on the whistle button blows the whistle, a short push activates the crew talk feature.


----------



## mopac

Yes, the O scale engines are nice. But I hate 3 rail track. Here are some pics from my 5312 set.
I forgot what order the cars should be in.


----------



## mopac

The first 2 cars behind the engine are 3 spring trucks the next 2 cars are 2 springs.
Not sure what that is all about.


----------



## AmFlyer

The 638 has brass coupler weights, that is not correct for a 1953 set. All the cars should have 3 spring trucks. I am not sure it really matters.
The trees and the grass have filled in, summer has arrived in Missouri.


----------



## mopac

Good spot Tom. I did not see the brass coupler on the caboose. I guess guy found the box and kinda put a set together. No biggie to me. What was in the box is worth 38.00. LOL, not that I needed any of it. There was a broken link coupler in the box. Brass weight coupler.


----------



## alaft61ri

I bought at my hobby shop just had to rewire it and paint base lots of rust. ordered antenier spelling sucks sorry.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice addition, the lettering is strong.


----------



## mopac

Nice diner Al. Looks good. Those antenaes are not cheap.


----------



## alaft61ri

Yea i know i didnt paint under neath because it say Jan 1951. Thankyou everyone.

Al


----------



## AFGP9

My new to me eBay wins.....The cars are brand new. I just didn't include the boxes for the photo. The Northern Pacific was actually a "Buy It Now" deal. As I stated before, I bought for no other reason that I thought it was a sharp looking car. I'm a sucker for things "Wabash" since I spent my earliest years in Southern Illinois and was accustom to seeing the Wabash run by our house.


----------



## mopac

Very sharp cars Kenny. They look great. I like them. I got a couple cars coming in a day or two.
I will post pics. Got another flat car with trailers. I have enough of those things. The other car
is a green plastic baggage car. My first old AF passenger car.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice kenny the brown colors r sharpe like those colors the best.


----------



## AmFlyer

The brown/tuscan color boxcars look just right on 50's themed layouts. The large letter NP is an NASG car, good find.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks mopac and al for your kind words. 
Mopac I have a green REA baggage car so now I need to get a red regular coach car so I can set up a red and green Christmas display. I have yet to figure out why New Haven red passenger cars sell for more than green ones on eBay. It looks like Pullman heavyweights are about the same price, red or green, and do cost more than the New Havens. 
I suppose because they usually have a 3 axle truck and are actually a little heavier and most are lighted. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The brown/tuscan color boxcars look just right on 50's themed layouts. The large letter NP is an NASG car, good find.


I knew that NP car was a NASG car which is another reason I bought it. You are so right about brown/tuscan color boxcars looking just right on 50's themed layouts since I am in the transition era. 

Kenny.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, pricing and rarity for the heavyweight passenger cars goes kind of like this. The early long truck 652,3&4 cars are pricey, especially if they are painted and no flaking. They are really for display shelves.The unpainted short 3 axle truck 652,3&4 cars beginning in 1948 are plentiful and cost more than one would think if the lettering is perfect. Red or Green(olive) are about the same price. The only important variation is punched vs unpunched windows on the 654 observation end. I much prefer the punched but have some of each. Then there is the 1952 Pikes Peak 652. There are two different red paint colors used and one green color. All are expensive. The maroon is the least expensive then the cherry red, the green is the most rare and most expensive.
In the KC versions the green are most common followed by red w/o silhouettes. Red with silhouettes are pricey, those with 5 digit numbers are very rare (rated a 5) and priced accordingly.
If you plan to run the 952,3&4 cars on a layout I recommend replacing the bulbs with a 24V version or a screw in LED. The original bulbs make enough heat to soften the roof plastic over time and create a dimple. This was not a problem with the bakelite cars.


----------



## mopac

Speaking of old red and green passenger cars I got a dandy in the mail today. A REA baggage car. Green. I really do not think I could have found a nicer one. Stand up car. And a deal I think. I really do not know the prices on these. Starting price was 15.00 plus shipping and no one else bid on it. That always scares me. No cracks. A minor scuff on
the roof. That's it. Now I will be on the hunt for 2 nice matching coaches. One pic of each side. Pics are not working on the forum right now. I will add pics in a few minutes. Sorry. Not my fault.


----------



## mopac




----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice painted green 651. You definitely need 3 painted green 650's to run behind it. Plus that green paint is an exact match for the green painted 1952 Pikes Peak 652.


----------



## mopac

2 more pics without all the shadows on the car. Amazing the difference 20 minutes can make.
Tom, so 15.00 a good deal? Forum is updating the site. I will show in a few minutes.
No shadows on these. I would love to have some Pikes Peaks cars.


----------



## AmFlyer

I would say that you got the 651 for half price.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom, thanks for the useful information regarding the passenger cars. Funny you should mention those 24V bulbs. I just got 30 from Portlines to put in all of my switches and controllers. I mostly wanted to reduce the heat in the controllers.

Nice 651 mopac. Looks like you scored another bargain. I liked the second picture with the light shading. Of course the non-shaded ones are nice and show the great lettering but I thought your last shaded picture looked very natural.
Just my artist view point.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I got me some 24 volt bulbs also. Those swtch controller bulbs get too damn hot with
18 volt bulbs.


----------



## AFGP9

I just got my 2020 Fall S Fest invitation. I won't be going since it is near Milwaukee but I will be ordering the cars offered by them. I have scanned a copy of the order form in case anybody wants to order some too. I hope I can pull the scan to the forum page. The cars are Milwaukee Road hoppers in two different colors.
It didn't work. You can see these cars by going to www.trainweb.org/bsg. The Badgerland home page will appear. In the search box type in "2020 S Fest Hoppers". Look down the page and you will find the 2020 S Fest listing. Click on that link then on the next page, the third line down. There you will find the cars. Happy hunting.

That scan did work so you can maybe see the page after all and ordering information.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The scan worked. I would like to attend another S Fest but it will not be this year.


----------



## mopac

They might have S Fest. With this virus growing again I bet it will be canceled.


----------



## mopac

My mail box has been producing some good stuff. Got another package today. Not much more will be coming. I have plenty of cars and really do not need anymore. There is a few I would like, but they are expensive and I am not into that right now. Ok, back to the one I got today. It is one of those flat cars with 2 trailers. Got enough of those now. This one is from a series I never heard of. Item # 4-9000. From 1981. Box was printed in 1981.Brand new in box. The series is called "Historic American Railways". HAR. This is HAR 1. Its the first in the series. Their is a shield on rear of each trailer with Historic American Railways 1. 15.00 plus shipping.


----------



## AmFlyer

Another nice addition.


----------



## Mikeh49

MoPac's car was to be pulled by the B&O A-A PA, the first (or second) Flyonel diesel, 1981. There were also Historic American Railroad sets for Southern and SP that I know of.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the info. I had not heard of the HAR series before I bought this one.


----------



## AmFlyer

Lionel made 6 HAR sets plus add ons from 1981 through 1988.
HAR#1 B&O
HAR#2 B&M
HAR#3 Southern
HAR#4 NYC
HAR#5 SP
HAR#6 Wabash


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac that's the very same car I posted a picture of about a month ago. I got mine around the time they were produced and I paid a lot more than $15 for that HAR car then. You got another bargain. Until I took it out of the box for pictures, mine had never been out of the box. Nice car you have there. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The scan worked. I would like to attend another S Fest but it will not be this year.


I can't make it to Milwaukee this year either. As mopac says, it will probably be cancelled anyway because of the virus. I hope next year it will be back in Tinley Park. I am going to order one each of those hoppers though. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, thanks. I think it is a nice car. Not sure but I am thinking Lionel's newer cars have plastic trucks.
This one has metal truck. It is one of Lionel's earliest endeavors into American Flyer - 1981.


----------



## mopac

I just now went to see the S Fest hoppers. Very nice. LOL, too nice for me. 
I can't decide which I like best, the orange or the grey.


----------



## AFGP9

Here is my contribution for the day. These have never been on my layout. I do have others like these on the layout in average condition. The painted stripe car is new. The decal version has very little run time. The wheels show very little track wear. No the couplers are not rusted. That's the way the picture came out.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I like the GAEX car. I have one of it. Mine is in below average condition. Decal stripe. Rusty door guides. For some reason my stripes have been removed. You can see they were there.


----------



## AmFlyer

Interesting how the painted stripe is at a different angle than the decal. I never looked at the two versions side by side like this. I have two 622's sitting on my credenza here in the office. Each car has the decal positioned slightly different, but the position of the decal is the same on the two sides of each car. Not worth thinking about I suppose.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I have two other decal cars and all seem to be the same angle. I got one other painted stripe car that is a different angle as you mentioned. These cars are layout cars and are fair to average condition. I bought them in that condition so they would appear well used on my layout. The stripe car can be used in a consist and the two decal cars are "scene" cars.

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice pictures here my new extended layout few more things but pretty much done.


----------



## AmFlyer

Good pictures. I see you have The Three Stooges keeping watch over the layout activities.


----------



## AFGP9

Al your addition turned out pretty nice.


----------



## alaft61ri

AFGP9 said:


> Al your addition turned out pretty nice.


Thanks
[QUOTE="AFGP9, post: 2533115, membernice.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## AmFlyer

Coming back to the green GAEX boxcar stripes I thought I would post a picture of the three 622’s I am using on the layout. The stripe on the top car was installed with a curve, possibly so it missed overlapping any of the lettering. Both sides have the decal installed in an identical manner. On the lower two cars the decals are straight but positioned in a slightly different place on the car. The bottom car has some of the stamped lettering blocked by the decal, it is also one of my transition cars. All three have three spring trucks. 
I concur I need to stop looking at all these meaningless variations. I took the picture outside this time. The paint is identical on all three cars, the light reflecting off the white granite counter top makes the cars closer to the counter look paler.


----------



## AmFlyer

Moving on past the random variations I have some pictures I have delayed posting. I have been looking for my 497 NH PA and 499 HH electric to pull the passenger cars. Regrettably I have so far failed to locate them. Here are the pictures, they feature the New Haven McGinnis colors. The passenger train is American Models heavyweights with all cars converted to three axle heavyweight trucks. Too bad I did not have the siding power turned on for the picture. This train is usually pulled by an AM Pacific that was converted to TMCC. There is also an ALCO RS-3 and a Baldwin S-12, but these only get freight assignments. There is a Trainmaster in pre-McGinnis green/yellow colors that pulls the coaches as well. The 499 would be perfect if only I had located it. Also some other fun engines and cars a visible in the yards. Note how big the scale length Big Boy is.


----------



## mopac

Your New Haven stuff is very nice. Cool stuff.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, I do ask myself how a layout set in Western Pennsylvania ended up with so much New Haven equipment.


----------



## mopac

American Flyer liked New Haven. You like orange and black. Does look good.


----------



## mopac

I got a nice green 650 coach in the mail box yesterday. Very happy with it. I assume it is
from 1948. Has brass weighted couplers. I do not know if all 650s has diecast chassis
but this one does. When I get another coach I will get a pic of the passenger consist with
an engine. I might use my 282 I have had for 65 years to pull the consist. Tom, 3 coaches
would be nice but I think I will just use 2 plus the baggage car. My 282 slips her drivers
real easy.


----------



## AmFlyer

1946 production 650's used plastic chassis that warped. 1947 and 1948 were all diecast. From 1949 through 1953 both diecast and sheet metal chassis were used. The diecast are nicer because they have steps and some visible underbody detail.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for info Tom. I do prefer the diecast chassis. Like you say better steps and underbody detail.
I guess they are all lighted.


----------



## AmFlyer

Some 1946 650 coaches were not illuminated, other than that, all 650's are illuminated. The green and the tuscan 655's were not illuminated.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom that New Haven orange and black sure does stand out. Very nice.

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

AFGP9 said:


> Tom that New Haven orange and black sure does stand out. Very nice.
> 
> Kenny


I like it to very sharp looking.

Al


----------



## alaft61ri

I just pick this up yesterday at the hobby shop it was missing 3 loggs so i had some wouldnt dowels cut to length and stain them later


----------



## mopac

You got 4 of them? Just kidding. Sometimes the pics post more than you want.
I have 2 or 3 log cars. I like them. You have a good hobby shop.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thanks i gues when i press in large lt makes 4 pics. This hobby shop nice guy.its me and one or two guys are flyer people so he keeps them in back and we pick thru them i think isaw some flyer o gage steamer.he has a 715 or 915 not sure which one next time i go i will pick it up he has 3 moroon color 650 9 something and a another 6 something look good .


----------



## AFGP9

alaft61ri said:


> Thanks i gues when i press in large lt makes 4 pics. This hobby shop nice guy.its me and one or two guys are flyer people so he keeps them in back and we pick thru them i think isaw some flyer o gage steamer.he has a 715 or 915 not sure which one next time i go i will pick it up he has 3 moroon color 650 9 something and a another 6 something look good .


Hey Al, I finally remembered to get you the name of that touch up paint I mentioned the other night. It is in fact "Sharpie"!!! It says on the tube that it is "oil based paint" and is a fine point type. That part is very important because I remember seeing medium point as well. Also there were other paint colors too. Just remember to look for the "oil based paint" description. As a reminder, that was at Hobby Lobby although I'm sure you could find it at other places that have the Sharpie brand. Maybe Walmart? 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

If it is oil based I would have some thinner handy incase you need to wipe it off and do it again.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thanks guys appreciate it. Thanks Al


----------



## alaft61ri

Yesterday was my birthday so i went to my other hobby shop looking for a 100 watt transformer. He didnt have Aft one but had 2 lionel coudnt pass up the price. Plus bought other stuff here are photos. Transformers paid 30 for both.


----------



## mopac

You will probably like the Lionel better than the AF ones. I will never use an AF to run trains again.
Have you tried the Lionel yet? You should be able to run your trains slower when you want to. Like
coming into a station.

Oh, and Happy Birthday!!!


----------



## alaft61ri

I havent trying to figure out how hook it and how it work specifically the with 4 knobs . and thankyou and trying to find info on that high tension stand if it lights up. 

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

You will want to be real careful using that Type V transformer with AF items. The Type V will output 25V with 115V on the primary. Today's residential voltage is now 120V so a V can output 26 to 27V. That voltage will quickly make your Gilbert items "Display Only". Consider using a meter on the output and marking the 15V position in red magic marker on the dials.


----------



## alaft61ri

K all i want it for is acceries i started to read up on it sounds kinda tricky i paid 30.00 for both mabe. I will just get a aft 100 watt .thankyou 

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

I think that V is worth a lot more than $30. You got a great buy.


----------



## alaft61ri

Yea i think so. Looking on e bay to find info and saw the prices .


----------



## alaft61ri

alaft61ri said:


> K all i want it for is acceries i started to read up on it sounds kinda tricky i paid 30.00 for both mabe. I will just get a aft 100 watt .thankyou
> Al


----------



## alaft61ri

Yesterday bought a birthday gift were the hobby shop had a 490 and 492 diesel dont know to much about but did it any way here r photos.


----------



## alaft61ri

They are for me. Paid 200.


----------



## mopac

Those are very cool Al. I like the paint scheme. Hope they run good for you.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thanks didnt at first but sprayed it with crc2 cleaned grease. From gears. Ran needs a good cleaning watching videos on repairs on diesels.


----------



## mopac

Watching the videos does help. They are finnicky.


----------



## alaft61ri

I know. That why it took me long to buy one. Paid 200. Think its a good deal. 

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice addition, great price.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice looking Al and great price! 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Thanks.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have been otherwise occupied recently and have not been finding interesting Gilbert items to post. To keep things alive here is a picture of the tail ends of UP and Lackawanna passenger trains the Union Station.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice very nice how big is your layout.

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

The layout fills a 17'x21' room.


----------



## alaft61ri

Holly s that is huge. Nice.


----------



## AFGP9

This past week life got in the way of my forum participation except for a couple of quick comments so I haven't been too active. I mentioned that I had acquired a new to me car. It may upset a few purists since it is a KC converted link car but here is what I got from a But It Now/Make Offer on eBay. The seller was asking $119 plus shipping of $11.00. I offered $90 plus shipping and got it. There are a couple of minor paint issues but not bad. Since it will be for a Christmas set up with a green 951 baggage car, this car, and a green 954 Observation car it will fit right in. That is why I when I saw this car converted to KC's and had nice lettering I had to have it. I should fix the paper inside but for now it will do.

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice . good deal enjoy 

Al


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Al. I've been wanting a Pikes Peak for some time buy didn't like the pricing on quality ones.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is the bright, or cherry, red version of the 652 Pikes Peak. It has a rarity of 4. You got it for a very good price.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Tom. I looked it up and from what my information was, that is what I thought the color variation was but wasn't absolutely sure. Thanks to you, now I am. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Very nice car Kenny. The heavyweights are very cool. Because of price, I am putting a 3 car green
set of Pullman cars. I have 2 so far. Watching for a good 650. I would imagine someday I will get a
red set. When I get all 3 I will do pics.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, I have a green mixture of 650 New Haven series cars and 950 cars. This car will go towards making a Christmas consist. As I told Tom, it will be a green 951 baggage car, this cherry red car, and a green 954 Grand Canyon car. I've got other 950 series cars I could include but I think the 3 cars mentioned will suit what I have in mind. Who knows, I may find other red or green heavyweights that I think I can't live without. I've been through the chrome passenger cars, with the PA/PB Santa Fe and Rocket chrome engines. I had 15 nice chrome passenger cars at my highest point plus 5 so-so ones. Sold all of it because I didn't like the way they looked on my semi-rural small town themed layout. The New Haven and Pullman heavyweights look way better pulled by a 290 or other such steamer. Yes I could have kept the chrome stuff and just displayed it as part of my collection. I was made an offer I couldn't refuse for the lot. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Today I was looking in some Train Collection storage crates but did not find what I was looking for. I did come across two 5 digit cars that are not as common as others.
First is the 24553 olive colored Rocket Transport Car, cataloged from 1958 to 1960.
Second is the 24575 National Car Company Bordens Milk Container car. This is the PM version cataloged from 1961 to 1966.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice very col like your layout.

Al


----------



## mopac

Very nice cars. I do not have either one.


----------



## mopac

I bought a new to me car today on ebay. I had not bought anything for awhile. Its a very
common car, but in very nice condition. Seller stated it was in excellent condition. From the
pics I would agree. It even has a brake wheel. Nice graphics. The car is a 629, the MoPac
cattle car. I have one but it is a turd and I wanted a nice one. The car has a diecast frame,
what I wanted. No warpage. Best part, I did not have to put out a penny. I had 23.00 something
in E Bay Bucks that were expiring. Total cost was 20.00 with shipping. So I have 3.00 left
to spend. And I got .80 ebay bucks for next time. I will post a pic here when I get it. I have
been watching for a nice one with diecast frame for awhile. The diecast frames are nice.
Almost always you get good steps and no warpage.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice cant wait to see it i have the other one 926 not sure exact number last night went to ck numbet on mine to see if it was like yours it wasnt. I have the stock yard. Have to replace pads on some cows. Good luck.

Al


----------



## mopac

Thanks Al. Suppose to be here monday.


----------



## alaft61ri

The one your getting has the double doors. I will show a picture of mine when i get home tonight.

Al


----------



## mopac

Mine has a single door on each side. I have seen the double doors. Not many. The double doors might
be an action car, not sure.


----------



## alaft61ri

One i have for the cows they go in one door abd come put the other.


----------



## mopac

Well, I was wrong about if diecast frame, no warpage. My new car does indeed have some roof warpage.
Those MoPac cars seem to have a problem with warpage. Too late now. I just did not see it till now. It is
the open slat version. I just assumed diecast frame there would be no problem with warpage. My warpage
is not terrble but for sure in it.


----------



## AmFlyer

The 629 open slat cars almost always have some waviness in the roof. That is different than the car warpage (bowing) with plastic frames. The open slat cars are nice to have, mine has a very slight waviness in the roof.
The link coupler operating stockyard cars with a door on each end are 736's.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for info Tom.


----------



## AmFlyer

Just waiting for a picture after it arrives!


----------



## AmFlyer

In the evening my wife has been watching all the Christmas in July movies on the Hallmark channels. At least she records them first so the 30 minutes of commercials in the two hour shows can be skipped. In the same spirit of Christmas in July I thought I would post a couple of pictures of my Christmas Layout from 1998. These are from the hundreds and hundreds of pictures I have yet to scan so I just took pictures of the prints with my iPhone.
In the first picture note I had a 325AC on duty in place of the usual 322AC. Those with sharp eyes will notice the non Gilbert interloper, an American Models New Haven RS3. The second picture looks across to the 6 track yard. The third is a night shot along the front street of the Snow Village buildings. 
If you count there are 13 Gilbert operating/illuminated accessories visible in just these three views, not counting the track switches and uncouplers. In retrospect I am astounded at how much work I put into these layouts each year for 30 days of use.


----------



## mopac

Wow. Thanks for showing. Yes, lots of work there. I think night shots are my favorite. I love
the lights. You are a true American Flyer fan. Did any of those buildings end up on your big
layout?


----------



## alaft61ri

Wow that is great love it. Very nice layout.
Al


----------



## alaft61ri

Also these are my two missouri pacifics 976 and a 929. Also this is my new addition i picked up today.


----------



## AmFlyer

Al, if you keep adding cars you will need to build some additional yard trackage. That Western Electric PRR car is much less common than the ones with the yellow AF reels.
Mopac and Al, I always enjoyed creating and building those layouts. Each year's was different from the previous year. I have not built a Chistmas layout since I got the large permanent layout (4 years) but I think I will do one this year. I do not have a good overhead look down picture of the 1998 layout. As I recall there were almost 30 Snow Village ceramic buildings on it. It was tricky to get them all arranged into a logical three square blocks of a city. They really looked good at night with all the building lights.
When I started planning my permanent layout I was going to incorporate some Snow village, I have almost 100 of them, and some Gilbert items. As my thinking evolved over several years I gradually ended up with a completely scale layout. No Snow Village or Gilbert accessories. Part of the reasoning was a scale layout was what I wanted plus I have a 9'x13' space in my office set aside for a semi-permanent pure Gilbert layout that would use some of the Snow Village. I have not made much progress on it other than select the track plan and use Gilbert turnouts with GarGraves Flex track rather than Gilbert sectional. Another project I have not done!


----------



## alaft61ri

Thankyou. I really no more room . i thought of building up but if i have to work on the inside it would be difficult but iam still thinking of it i like collecting certain ones iam still looking to buy magnetic crane and the the coal crane one. My other ones like to get is the circus engine have a bid on one now. And one day like to get a 4 8 2 . one day.
I enjoy your layout and good luck with your future ones oh my layout know is 5'x 15'.


----------



## mopac

Al, those MoPac cars look great. The Western Electric reel car is very cool.

Tom, I have many unfinished projects. Not just trains. Probably the day I get them all done will be my last in this world. I do not want to leave them all undone. So I can not go yet.


----------



## alaft61ri

I also hve things i have my wood working hobby i made my great neice a gift she turns 1 today party is saturday. Here is a pcture.


----------



## AmFlyer

Wow! That is very nice woodwork.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom very nice Christmas layout you had there in 1998. Even though it looks like you did indeed put in a lot of work, the results were well worth it. 

Mopac and Al I am going to have to dig out my cattle cars. Don't remember which ones I have. I do know I have a double door 976 version like you show Al. I don't have an open slat 629 since all I have ever found were all warped which I have since learned was normal. I have 4 cattle pens with different color mats and both blue and green metal bases but all are packed away. The main reason is because I bought all those cattle pens without cows. My thinking back when I bought them was the cows would be no big deal to buy. Boy was I wrong! Those things aren't cheap! I am though so I got a problem paying $20 a head for them. $100?? 

Nice woodwork there Al. I also like that Western Electric 936. That is on my want list. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Thankyou guys the pads for the cows aren't cheap either mine came with the cows. Couple pads r coming off. Were i picked up the western electric he had a one or two 629 missouri pacific might go back. To buy.

Al


----------



## mopac

LOL, you need to stay out of those train shops. I think I may have bought too many cars.
More than I can use on a layout. Some how I bought a MoPac cattle car at a train show
and did not notice one of the sliding doors was missing. Very careless. I have a few junk
cars I will steal a door from. It will not be correct color but I see that on real railroads. This
is how I ended up with too many cars, I like unit trains, like all coal cars, or all tank cars.
Gilbert never did this in their sets. I notice Kenny likes unit trains also.


----------



## AmFlyer

You like unit trains, something like this? I think we all do!


----------



## alaft61ri

Yes i do very nice

Al


----------



## mopac

very nice Tom.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> LOL, you need to stay out of those train shops. I think I may have bought too many cars.
> More than I can use on a layout. Some how I bought a MoPac cattle car at a train show
> and did not notice one of the sliding doors was missing. Very careless. I have a few junk
> cars I will steal a door from. It will not be correct color but I see that on real railroads. This
> is how I ended up with too many cars, I like unit trains, like all coal cars, or all tank cars.
> Gilbert never did this in their sets. I notice Kenny likes unit trains also.


Yep sure do Mopac. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> You like unit trains, something like this? I think we all do!
> Very nice Tom. For what ever reason I especially like a unit train of coal hoppers such as you have here. Also tank car unit trains.
> Kenny
> 
> View attachment 545283
> View attachment 545284


----------



## AmFlyer

I run a unit coal train because the layout is set in western Pa. They were a common sight. You all bring up a point about tank cars. I have enough in my collection to make a long unit train but it just never occurred to me to do it. I suppose I should give it a try. I do run long all boxcar trains but I do not think that counts as a unit train.


----------



## alaft61ri

I mix mine up some times i have all pasenger car or box cars tankers etc etc. 

I do like all the coal cars.

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

I took a (halfhearted) look this afternoon into some of my storage crates to get some additional tank cars. I was planning to make a unit tank car train and take some pictures. I only found one, added to the 5 on the layout it does not make much of a unit train. I will postpone this until I can get into some more of the storage crates.
I did find three items of interest so here are some pictures. The first is a 6-pack carton of 23025 boxes that each hold a dozen smoke cartridges. These master cartons show up once in a while.
The second item is a box of three 749 Boulevard Lamps. Each lamp is in its own box as shown. Many of you have these street lights on your layouts.
The third item is a 985 Boston and Maine Boxcar in its original boxed that is stamped 24042. This car was made in 1757 only. 1957 was the first year of the 5 digit number system but like many 1957 items the car has an old 3 digit number and only the box has the new 5 digit number. The B&M was made as a 5 digit car in 1958 through 1960, the number was 24043. In 1961 it was numbered 24056 and most were unpainted plastic. It’s final appearance was in 1963 as the 24059.


----------



## mopac

Nice stuff Tom. Thanks for the pics. Those 749 lamps go for a bundle on ebay. Too much
for me.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks. The boxed set of 748 street lights was one of my better purchases. These are NIB, never used, purchased in March of 1997 at the DuPage train show for $25.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks. The boxed set of 748 street lights was one of my better purchases. These are NIB, never used, purchased in March of 1997 at the DuPage train show for $25.


Nice "crispy" boxes not too mention the contents, Boston & Main box car and those street lights. Sure do wish the DuPage show would come back. 
Who knows when. As of today our governor has decided to add more rules to social distancing and what kinds of venues can be open. Train shows are not essential. I guess he means well.


----------



## AmFlyer

The B&M boxcar was a bit more. It is LN in the OB with a 5 digit stamp on the box. The car appears to never have been run. I bought it August of 2000 at DuPage for $165. About what it is worth today in LN condition with the correct OB. 
I hope within a year this virus risk can be mitigated so we can travel and attend train shows. I was planning to attend S Fest this year but that is not possible.


----------



## alaft61ri

I here you nice stuff boxes to love the lamps picked up this 302.

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

I like those with the wire handrails, nice.


----------



## mopac

Nice 302 Al. The metal handrails are nice. I have 2 or 3 of those. Made in 1948.
I bought 2 from flyernut. I like the high mounted headlight. And of coarse the diecast body.


----------



## alaft61ri

Me to like the rails give it something can't think of the word i want to use.I have a 302 AC. To 

Al


----------



## mopac

Tom, you showed those smoke cartridges. I remember using those red cartridges in 1955. My dad picked them up somewhere for my 282. I also remember going through them pretty quickly. My dad did not buy more. He started using 3 in 1 oil for smoke fluid. It actually worked. I finally rebuilt the smoke unit a couple years ago. The
wick was nasty from using the oil. The 282 remained unrun from 1957 till about 2017. It is now one of my best running locomotives. In 1957 it started running poorly and the motor getting very hot. Almost every year I took it apart and put it back together hoping the problem was solved. It never happened till I bought a parts chassis
and started changing parts. It had a bad armature. It checked out good but it wasn't. Like I said it is now a great runner and smoke unit has a lionel resistor in it. The motor runs as cool as can be.


----------



## AmFlyer

The smoke fluid refill cartridges had two things working against them. Most parents did not care for the haze and smell of the smoke. Second, they could be expensive. To keep a steam engine smoking took a lot of cartidges, like one every 30 minutes of running. Those thin boxes that hold a dozen red cartridges retailed for $1, that is equivalent to about $15 today.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Nice 302 Al. The metal handrails are nice. I have 2 or 3 of those. Made in 1948.
> I bought 2 from flyernut. I like the high mounted headlight. And of coarse the diecast body.


 I too like those handrails. When I was buying steam locomotives that is all I would buy. I do have some non-rail engines, but they are not my preferred versions. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The B&M boxcar was a bit more. It is LN in the OB with a 5 digit stamp on the box. The car appears to never have been run. I bought it August of 2000 at DuPage for $165. About what it is worth today in LN condition with the correct OB.
> I hope within a year this virus risk can be mitigated so we can travel and attend train shows. I was planning to attend S Fest this year but that is not possible.


I ordered the two 2020 S Fest Milwaukee Road hoppers a month ago since I too cannot attend either but have yet to receive a conformation. Tried emailing them not too mention calling to no avail. From reading the order form I have, delivery won't be until after the the S Fest date of Nov. 6-8. I thought I would at least get a conformation. They must be working with a reduced staff with things as they are in today's world. Patients is the best thing I think. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

When I bought cars and attended the Fest the confirmation was part of the registration. I recall buying cars and not registering for the Fest. I think the only way I knew the order status was the charge to my CC.


----------



## AmFlyer

I know what you mean about the wire handrails. Newer ones have 5 wire connections and red glowing smoke with long 3 spring trucks. The wire handrail 1948’s look so much better plus more detail in the rods and valve gear.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I agree with your comment regarding the valve gear details on the 1948's. That's another reason I prefer the rails only versions. I think I have 3 302's like the one you show plus 3 with the rails. I'd have to check. 302's have been my favorite of that series of Atlantics even though they all look pretty much the same. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> When I bought cars and attended the Fest the confirmation was part of the registration. I recall buying cars and not registering for the Fest. I think the only way I knew the order status was the charge to my CC.


Yes you are correct regarding S Fest confirmation being part of the registration. I don't have a credit card(s) anymore and won't expose my debit card number even though it can be used as a credit card so I paid with a check which they will accept. That check hasn't cleared my bank yet so I assume, (a bad thing), they haven't come across my order yet. I hope. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac here are my cattle cars. As can be seen, the 629 and the 736, 771 Cattle Pen operating car, have both been converted to KC's. The 629 is a plastic based car. While not too clear in the photos, the spring coils are not stamped clearly on the link cars indicating that they were stamped with worn dies.
Now if I only had some of those high priced cattle. I did find 3 but no felt bottoms plus they all look like they got scurvy. To all you city slickers, that's a livestock condition that makes the cattle lose some of their hair among other things I won't go into.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Those cattle cars look to be in great condition.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks and yes they are. I had them stored away.


----------



## mopac

Kenny, thanks for showing your MoPac cattle cars. Very nice. I got my new 629 today.
It was a shocker to me. In the pics the frame looked to be diecast. Its not. It is plastic.
I did not know some had plastic. Roof is bowed some. Such is life on ebay sometimes.
The car is in very nice condition. At least no corrosion on frame. It is an open slat. I
found the other 629 I had. It is closed slat. It has a diecast frame. Kinda strange AF had 3 different frames. Make up your mind. Rainy and cloudy today, no pics.


----------



## AmFlyer

A plastic chassis is 1946 only, they will bow. It should have type 1 thin shank couplers on it. Almost all 1946 have silver rather than white lettering. A few were tuscan painted rather than unpainted plastic. All are worth about $20.


----------



## mopac

Couplers are thin shank (no weight). Lettering looks white to me. It is unpainted. A tuscan would be cool. It might be my only 1946 car. I paid 15.00
plus 5.00 shipping. So not in it too deep. My 2 629s will look nice running together. Thanks for info.


----------



## mopac

I went to Gilbert Gallery. They mention diecast and sheet metal frames. Nothing about plastic.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is an unfortunate omission on their part. The plastic frame 629's are common, usually bought by people looking to complete a 1946 set. Some operators avoid them because often the frames are warped.


----------



## mopac

My frame does not appear bowed, just the roof a bit.


----------



## flyernut

I also like the coal trains.. I have approx 15 hoppers with various road names I pull with my Big Boy or Allegheny in O scale.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> My frame does not appear bowed, just the roof a bit.


I remember buying my 629 because the plastic frame was good and the roof wasn't bowed. A big surprise. I was looking for a die cast version since I knew about the plastic issue. I only paid $8 for it at a train show. The seller said that since it was a KC conversion and plastic frame he'd give me a deal plus he said he was tired of never selling it. I have thought about getting the die cast and sheet metal versions. Sometimes I like getting all versions of a particular car or engine. Not too sure about spending money on those open slat bowed cars though. Prices are too much on eBay. Mopac I think based on what I have seen on eBay you got yours at a good price. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Picked up these today couldnt pass them up. 629 missouri pacific and a C&O 911.


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## AmFlyer

Nice additions.


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## mopac

It has been light rain and clouds here the last 4 days. I will try to get pics of my 2 629s sunday.
I don't mind light rain but not for pics. I finally bought an American Flyer 50th anniversary boxcar.
I thought they were nice. And I bought another rerailer in box. missed the auction on the 650 I
wanted. No one bought it so seller relisted. Not sure why no one bought it. Its nice. Hope I don't
miss it again. I just do not bid early.


----------



## alaft61ri

I have 2 650 red new haven willing to part with one if you r interested. If you r i will take pic and make me and offer. Sorry mistake have 3. Offer stands.

Al


----------



## mopac

Thanks Al, but I need a green one.


----------



## alaft61ri

Ok good luck.
Al


----------



## alaft61ri

mopac said:


> Thanks Al, but I need a green one.


I saw two green 650 plus a bonus car for 44.95 plus 13.95 shipping or best offer. Its on ebay couldnt figure how to send pictures of it.

Al


----------



## mopac

Here are my 2 629 MoPac cattle cars. The one on the left is a 1946 open slat with plastc chasiss.
The one on the right is a closed slat with diecast chassis. I have no idea of year. No boxes for either.
Still not a good day for pics. Cloudy and overcast. Did rain some this morning.











Got this next car in mailbox today. 15.00 plus shipping. I like the car. 50th aniversary of American Flyer. 1946 - 1996. I like the white car with red roof. I jumped a little quick on this one. If anyone wants one, there are 2 or 3 more on ebay right now. They are at 10.00 plus shipping and I doubt they go much, if any, higher. Mine is unrun but box is rough. Seller stated that. The box has gotten wet and it did a job on it. I might throw the
box away. I am not a cardboard collector.


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## alaft61ri

Nice really nice


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, that open slat 629 doesn't look too bad. Nice sharp lettering and the distortion isn't too bad either. I would say, considering the ones I have seen in the past, you did alright. I have one of those 50th anniversary cars that I bought new. I posted it a long time ago. It is a glass case resident in my collection. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, the lettering is really good on the open slat. I got fooled by the ebay pics. I really
thought the chassis was diecast. The plastic ones have the same detail as the diecast.
Distorted roof is there but it will be fine. Overall it is a nice car. I am about done buying cars.
I have many more than I can use. I certainly do not have all cars Gilbert made but enough.
A glass display would be nice. I do not even have a layout to display trains on.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac I am in kind of the same situation. Got plenty of cars but by no means all that I want. Gotta stay off eBay although I haven't been on there for the last couple of months buying. Just looking. I do have a good size layout but I don't want to crowd the over all look with too many cars so I store the rest. That is how I got into the situation of forgetting what I have or can't find something. I had to do a reorganization and inventory count. That is a work in progress. Still not done.
I have 3 glass display cases full. Not really big. They each hold about 20 of my nice "display only" cars depending on car length.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Thats alot of cars on display. I had a good inventory list. But I did not update as I bought
more, so it is worthless right now. I don't even know what locomotives I have. Not long
ago I bought a 326 Hudson because I didn't think I had one. Wrong. I found one. A good
inventory list avoids things like that.


----------



## AFGP9

Yeah a good inventory list is handy. Like you, when I bought new stuff I didn't add them to my inventory list so that list was basically useless. That and buying cars from eBay that I already have is what prompted the start of the list over haul and replacing cardboard boxes with see through Sterlite containers. Plus everything done so far has labels as to contents. Something else I failed to do before. I don't think having a spare 326 Hudson is a bad thing provided you didn't over pay for it. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I did not over pay for the second 326 but I did not steal it. They are both very nice paint and lettering. In fact I can not decide which one to keep. They are that close in condition. That was something I had to get used to ,when I got into American Flyer. The same road numbers. In HO that is a No No. I have over 130 HO locomotives, over 500 rolling stock. 99.9% have different road numbers. Gilbert did not do that. If you have a 640 coal hopper.
all like cars have 640 for a road number. I am getting used to it so 2 engines with same road number should be no big deal. Its just a mind set.


----------



## AmFlyer

New S gauge offerings from Lionel, AM and MTH are now made with multiple numbers of the same car. That is why I have so many coal hoppers, they were offered with 5 different numbers. I bought all 5 number variations in Bessemer and Lake Erie and all 5 in Erie. I have two new Santa Fe U36's because Lionel offers them in two different road numbers. I have two new Legacy Berkshires rather than one on order thanks to this. An entirely new opportunity to spend money!
Back to Gilbert, I have 27 633's. Most are different variations of painted vs unpainted, color, chassis type, truck type, reefer vs boxcar and stamping variation on the OB. Five are part of sets vs separate purchase. Plenty of totally rational reasons to have more than one Gilbert car with the same number! I see no issue with owning two 326 Hudsons, the ultimate manifestation of my favorite steam engine.
An inventory list is essential for me. My wife maintains it and I refer to it frequently. When I returned from a train show the new acquisitions had to stay on the DR table until she had the marked up inventory list. On new orders when she sees the charge on the card bill that triggers the addition to the inventory list.


----------



## AFGP9

Having two nice 326 Hudson's and having to decide which one to keep would be a hard decision. What I would do is run one my layout, which I do, and display the other. Since I love Hudson's, that is what I would do. Deciding which 326 to keep to me would be like picking which of your kids is your favorite. Now if you had a glass case that would be the place to put the extra one. If you had a case.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> New S gauge offerings from Lionel, AM and MTH are now made with multiple numbers of the same car. That is why I have so many coal hoppers, they were offered with 5 different numbers. I bought all 5 number variations in Bessemer and Lake Erie and all 5 in Erie. I have two new Santa Fe U36's because Lionel offers them in two different road numbers. I have two new Legacy Berkshires rather than one on order thanks to this. An entirely new opportunity to spend money!
> Back to Gilbert, I have 27 633's. Most are different variations of painted vs unpainted, color, chassis type, truck type, reefer vs boxcar and stamping variation on the OB. Five are part of sets vs separate purchase. Plenty of totally rational reasons to have more than one Gilbert car with the same number! I see no issue with owning two 326 Hudsons, the ultimate manifestation of my favorite steam engine.
> An inventory list is essential for me. My wife maintains it and I refer to it frequently. When I returned from a train show the new acquisitions had to stay on the DR table until she had the marked up inventory list. On new orders when she sees the charge on the card bill that triggers the addition to the inventory list.


Tom, Gilbert must have had some pretty savvy marketing people when they made so many variations of a given number. The average train runner probably didn't or doesn't care about color, painted or unpainted, chassis type, truck type, or box stamping variations. On the other hand, Gilbert surly knew that collectors would want all variations so they made many different variations to promote sales. Much like Mattel did and probably still does in their Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars. I know that from my collecting, and selling days of those cars. Just when I thought I had one in every set, there would be a variation pop up. Cost me a lot of extra money. The up side was I could keep one and sell the newer variation which usually was a short run production or sell the whole set, which I did when I had more than one set. Great profit margin. Same with Gilbert. We all know how they produced so many uncatalogued variations with some being rarer than others thus a higher value and selling price. Like I said in the beginning, it is all about marketing and sales even 60+ years ago. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Whatever Gilbert did intentionally or accidentally it has caused me to spend more collecting.
Here is a modern S gauge example. Two wood side reefers by SHS that have unique numbers. One day I decided I wanted a wood side to run on the layout, when I saw two numbers I bought both.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very cool


----------



## mopac

Certainly nice looking reefers.
No road number on the anniversary car.


----------



## AmFlyer

I noticed, 48324, AF 50th Anniversary. No number was printed on it.


----------



## flyernut

If anyone wants a Hudson, I have one..Re-numbered 320.no smoke, no choo choo, a oval of nice track, and a 642, 632, and a 638...$100 bucks plus.


----------



## mopac

I got a 650 passenger car in the mail today. Very nice condition except no glazing in windows.
I never see those for sale. The paper inside is so shiny it looks like the car has glass. I have some
nice plastic sheets I can cut some windows. I need to get some new paper for the insides so they
match. A while back flyernut said what kind of paper to use. I think Hobby Lobby has it. flyernut,
what is that paper called. I think I will use the 282 to pull the 3 car train. I got the 282 used when I 
was 5 years old. 3 cars will be it, not because of power, but wheel slippage. That 282 has my strongest
motor. Its a rocket ship. But no grip.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice did you buy all three. Nice shape have fun.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

The new one looks painted, sheet metal chassis with type 4 trucks. Likely a 1953.


----------



## mopac

Al, I bought all 3 in last month.

Tom, yes, kinda screwed up. One in the middle is the new one. It is a sheet metal frame with
3 spring trucks. One on the right is 2 spring trucks. Diecast frame with steps. The difference is
not that big of a deal to me. I would only have to buy another car to get passenger cars to match.
The new one is probably the nicest. But no window glass. Could not tell in the pics and of coarse
seller did not disclose. He just said it was in excellent condtion.


----------



## flyernut

It's funny, but I put those 3 exact cars on my layout last night and ran them.Mine are the early ones with thin shank coupler and no weight. They run like crap, so back in the plastic tub they go,they kept uncoupling. One of my 312's was pulling them, and the engine had more than enough guts to pull them. In fact I have 3 of my 312's on my 3 loops.. The paper you're looking for is called "Newsprint"...#32 high bulk, white newsprint. It's not white,it's a light cream color, and it's a exact match for the original diffuser paper used by Gilbert... It's made by Pro Art, and it comes in a pad, 9"x12".I bought it at a craft store.. If you can't find it, I'll send you some....


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the paper info. Cars that uncouple are a PITA.


----------



## mopac

I sent the seller of the passenger car a message informing him of the missing wndows.
He offered a full refund if I sent car back. I am pretty sure return shipping would have been on me.
I suggested a refund and I keep the car. Any way he is refunding me 10.00 and I come up with
some wndows and we are done. So I get the car for 15.00 plus shipping. I used to fashion 
glass (plastic) for HO cabooses. I still have some plastic somewhere.


----------



## AFGP9

Just a note of information regarding the deffuser paper. I have a roll of butcher paper that is an exact replica of the Gilbert original. I have had that paper for years so a roll will last who knows how long. I have used it in many passenger cars. Besides being the same off white or light cream color, it seems to be a tiny bit thicker or heavier. Makes for a nice fit. Sorry I don't remember what I paid for it. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I guess the diffuser paper can work in a caboose. Correct?


----------



## AmFlyer

Yep, that's how the illuminated cabooses were made.


----------



## mopac

Speaking of cabooses. My Union Pacific caboose was in Illinois 2 days ago. Illinois is right next to
Missouri. Today, my caboose is in South Dakota. Not right next to Missouri.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I guess the diffuser paper can work in a caboose. Correct?


Yep to what Tom said. I have done it several times. In fact I have a red caboose that came without the paper. I put the paper in it plus changed the bulb. That toned down the brightness a lot. Still too bright for my taste since the light shows through the plastic body at the ends. I stuck in a storage container. I don't remember the caboose car number. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

My UP caboose is in Nebraska today. It was suppose to be delivered today. I do not think it will
make it. I also bought another 650 passenger car. A diecast frame this time. With steps. Might
try to sell the sheet metal frame one. Its actually my nicest one.

Kenny, I think I will buy some 18 volt bulbs for my lighted cars. I bought some 18 volt red and green bulbs for my turnout controllers. Much better. No where near as hot. Those 14 volt bulbs really get hot. I think I have stated my volts correctly.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sounds like your UP caboose is traveling a similar route to a prototype.
Actually all passenger cars and cabooses used the 444 bulb. It is the large globe, 9/16", 18V bulb. Only engines used a 14V bulb. If you want less heat you need to buy the 24V version or screw in LED's. Same with the turnout lanterns and their controllers. All the bulbs were 18V. I switched all mine to 24V to reduce intensity and heat.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for info Tom. Maybe I replaced the turnout controller bulbs with 24 volt bulbs. Lots dimmer but bright enough.
Lots cooler. Probably not that much difference with 14 or 18 volts. I got the bulbs over a year ago and who knows where they are. They are marked, I think on the base. At least on the package. only bought red and green so need some 24 volt clear. Bright enough for caboose. LEDs would be nice.

I forget the name but there is a company that sells LEDs for model trains. They come with wires installed with resistor and what ever it is that changes AC to DC. They make it easy.
For about 3 bucks each.


----------



## AmFlyer

I recall you posting many months ago about using some 24V bulbs. Town and County Hobbies sells direct screw in replacement LED's for the original 18V bulbs. They are $3 ea, less in quantity.


----------



## AFGP9

I switched out my switch bulbs for 24V long ago. Both red and green and the clear one in the switch lantern. I first noticed a heat problem when I had a controller cover with a little warpage around a bulb hole. As luck would have it, I learned about the 24V bulb change around that time. That was before I had information about LED's. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

My UP caboose was in Kansas today. Its getting closer. Its in Kansas City, 300 miles away.
I might get it Monday.

Update on the UP caboose. Saturday at 1:43 am it arrived at distribution center here in St Louis.
It has to make it to my local post office. It really went on a journey, started out in Indiana. Only 2
states away. USPS is screwed up.


----------



## mopac

The mail has really gotten slow. I got something from across town. 7 miles away and it took
4 days. A few short years ago it would come the next day. It used to amaze me how fast
the mail was. I used to sell on ebay, 3 days was about the max for shipping to anywhere. Not that way today. And mail is not cheap anymore and they want to raise the rates. Just think
how overwhelmed they would be if we did not have email and texts.


----------



## AmFlyer

In the process of looking unsuccessfully for my 24425 reefer I came across these three interesting cars in their OB. The white/black 640 is the rarest of the 640 hoppers but still only rates a 3 on the rarity scale. 
The 24419 CN Reefer from 1958/9 has a rarity of 4. It lists in the guide as $800 plus the OB which likely adds $50.
The 24065 NYC boxcar is only a 2+ with KC’s as this one has. What is rare is the Kleerpack with the correct ends.


----------



## alaft61ri




----------



## mopac

The 640 hopper is cool. I will get one someday. Kinda rare but I see them every once in awhile.
All those cars are cool. Thanks for showing.


----------



## alaft61ri

Her is another logger car i picked up.


----------



## AmFlyer

Good addition, it looks like a 1948 with the brass coupler weights.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, regarding the mail delivery time, around here if I mail something from my town to the town just up the road 10 miles it first must travel from my local post office to a sorting center 80 miles away then back to the town 10 miles away where the mail then gets resorted for delivery at that post office. The trouble is that when anything reaches that sorting center it might sit for a couple of days. The average time to send an item down the road 10 miles takes 4-5 days. Crazy. Used to be there was a sorting center in a town 25 miles away but the Postal Service in it's infinite wisdom decided to close that sorting center and consolidate sorting centers to save money. Every place within a hundred miles of here was a 2 day delivery time back then. Efficient is not in their vocabulary. They wonder why they loose money?

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Thats crazy your better off delivering it your self. Lol

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is the 24425 just out of decades of storage. It was right where I thought it was, just challenging to get to. This time I brought up one of my 500W Halogen photography floods to illuminate the dark corner. See the picture, it was down on the left in a storage crate almost to the end. Ignore my finger in the upper left partially blocking the lens. The box end cap still has the original hobby shop price sticker on it, if only, if only, if only...
The car came with the one piece plastic brake wheel and the slot style sheet metal chassis known as a Type III.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice lots of bins.


----------



## AFGP9

Looks like a storage jungle you have there Tom. At least you had an idea of where the 24425 was. $4.98?? As you say if only....Nice car. Have you settled on the idea of the origin of the ATC stamping as a pre-production car? 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Tracking shows my UP caboose "out for delivery". I should get it today. It took 6 days
to go around 500 miles from shipper. Sad. 

Not sure why but I won an auction Sunday for 2 nice looking 302ACs. Neither runs. 39.00 
for both plus shipping, so not a bad price.
I would have gotten them cheaper but another buyer wanted them also. These were bought
for resale. How many 302ACs do you need. flyernut, don't answer. These are diecast with good
paint and great lettering. I will show them after I get them.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, were Gilbert going to include the ATC info on the car in 1960 they would have used a decal. The lettering is too fine and detailed for rubber stamping technology. Train Girl's car is stamped, but where did that stamp come from? Was it a commercially made stamp aimed at scale modelers? Even then a decal would have made more sense. Did Gilbert make it and then determine they could not get acceptable quality in the stamping on the production line? I can come up with possible explanations but absolutely no evidence to support that any explanation is correct.
Mopac, we are patiently waiting for the pictures. More 302's? I buy several engines per year (not 302's) but I have a layout to run them.


----------



## mopac

my 6-48703 caboose made it to me. It is indeed MIB. Nice box. As soon as the sun moves around to the wall I will get some pics. Poor seller paid extra for "2 day priority" so I would get it quicker. What a joke, what a ripoff. Took 6 days. USPS can not ship anything in 2 days. Not even across town. 5 years ago "2 day priority" meant something. No longer.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> my 6-48703 caboose made it to me. It is indeed MIB. Nice box. As soon as the sun moves around to the wall I will get some pics. Poor seller paid extra for "2 day priority" so I would get it quicker. What a joke, what a ripoff. Took 6 days. USPS can not ship anything in 2 days. Not even across town. 5 years ago "2 day priority" meant something. No longer.


When I order from Jeff Kane in the early or late morning, and sometimes in the mid-afternoon, I always get my parts the next day.


----------



## mopac

I need to do some running around today so I could not wait for full sun. But here are some pics.
Its amazng how many NIB Lionel cars are still around. This was made in 1988. 4.99 plus shipping.


----------



## AmFlyer

Its about time that UP Northern got a matching Caboose!


----------



## mopac

LOL, thats what I was thinking.


----------



## alaft61ri

Al


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> LOL, thats what I was thinking.


Nice match with your Northern Mopac. I have a UP 48703 as well. It was new when I bought it but without a box. I really didn't care if it had a box or not since I planned on running it.
This mail delivery thing is screwed up and it will get worse as we get nearer to the election with all the mail-in ballots. On the other hand, I just got 3 new AHL trucks USPS Priority Mail in 3 days from Texas!! Go figure.That would be normal shipping time. Based on your caboose's travels, I expected those trucks late next week. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I am not a cardboard collector either. If car has a box that is great but it would not determne if I bought a car.


----------



## AmFlyer

I guess I am the oddball cardboard collector here. In the case of the 24425 we posted about it would be a plastic collector because it came in a KleerPak.


----------



## mopac

I have never seen a car in a kleerpak for sale. I guess only rare and special cars came in them.
Did AF package them in them?


----------



## AmFlyer

Yes, Gilbert used them in 1960 and 1961 for some cars, nowhere near all. I posted two KleerPaks here yesterday. They are not common, many now have missing black endcaps.


----------



## AmFlyer

KleerPaks were a great idea, it allowed store customers to see what was in the separate sale boxes without unboxing the car. Thing is they were expensive and took time to package the cars because the box end cap interlocked with the couplers. In later years Gilbert achieved that much cheaper by using cardboard in a cellophane wrap. See the pictures below.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac those KleerPack cars are rare anywhere. Tom can elaborate on them better than I can. As I said the other day, I have seen them here and there at bigger train shows and knew what they were but also knew they were out of my price range. Most of the ones I have seen have been at S Fest train shows. A friend of Tom had some at a Milwaukee S Fest train show. I saw some at the Du Page monthly shows as well. So bottom line I know enough about them to know I can't afford them. As to years of production, once again I deffer to Tom.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I am not a cardboard collector either. If car has a box that is great but it would not determne if I bought a car.


Completely agree mopac. If I get a car with a nice box that's a bonus but by no means a deal breaker if I don't. The only exceptions are when I want a rare or hard to find NIB 10 car. Then I will pay the price which I have done too many times. 

Kenny


----------



## flyernut

I have that same 24533 track cleaning car in that same box, and in the same condition..I see alot of them.


----------



## mopac

I bought 2 rerailers earlier this year. I bought 4 more today from same seller.
Saved on shipping. Same shipping price whether I bought 1 or 4. I paid the
load for them but I am tired of trying to find them cheap. Aint going to happen.
24.99 each. They are very nice. They look new. I will probably not show pics
of them. LOL.


----------



## AmFlyer

Supposedly they have a rarity of one. Problem is the demand is far higher than the supply. At least you have your share of them now. Is this an indicator a layout is getting closer?


----------



## mopac

I hope so Tom.


----------



## AmFlyer

Some time ago I mentioned we had over 1,000 photos to sort through and get scanned so we can toss a lot of the old prints. My wife has been working at that on a part time basis and we are closing in on sending a large batch to be commercially scanned at 2,400DPI. As part of this process some train pictures have been rediscovered, some I had forgotten totally. If you recall I have posted some of my old layout pictures of random year layouts from 1955 to 2015.
To get started with some additional pictures I quickly took pictures of some of the prints. These today are not a layout but some interesting train pictures that were taken in 1989.


----------



## Trackman

AmFlyer said:


> Some time ago I mentioned we had over 1,000 photos to sort through and get scanned so we can toss a lot of the old prints. My wife has been working at that on a part time basis and we are closing in on sending a large batch to be commercially scanned at 2,400DPI. As part of this process some train pictures have been rediscovered, some I had forgotten totally. If you recall I have posted some of my old layout pictures of random year layouts from 1955 to 2015.
> To get started with some additional pictures I quickly took pictures of some of the prints. These today are not a layout but some interesting train pictures that were taken in 1989.
> 
> 
> View attachment 546294
> View attachment 546295
> View attachment 546296
> View attachment 546297


It looks as if 1989 was a good year!


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Trackman, my view is all the years were good, some were better than others. In 1989 my AF collection was about 5 to 10% of what it is today. I always tried to buy high quality pieces, OB's and SB's whenever possible. I would rather have 10 outstanding items than 50 average pieces.
December 29th of 1989 we were relocated back to Chicgo and bought a house in Wheaton a quick 4 miles from the DuPage Fair Grounds. That is when my collection exploded in size.


----------



## alaft61ri

Cool. Jealous


----------



## mopac

The mailman came early today. I was outside and heard the mail truck. I got 2 packages.
Both passenger cars. I have 3 #20 coaches of the Frontier cars. I bought a #30 baggage car.
Done with that train. I also got another 650 green pullman coach. This one has the diecast frame.
It needs a good bath. No diffuser paper inside. No biggie, I was buying some anyway. I might
try to sell the sheet metal frame car. It is nice but they have no steps. Bought a few things this
week. I still have my 4 rerailers and 2 302AC locomotives to be delivered. Done buying stuff
for awhile. Nothing on the want list. Both of the 302s have 3 spring tender trucks. Maybe
they all did.

Tom, you have a wonderful collection. I am sure we all are jealous. Most all my collection
is of average condition. Nothing new. Its ok with me. I would not have wanted to put out the money that you have.
Its all in what you want. Great pics of some great stuff. The circus train is awesome. Thanks for showing the pics.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, my next set of pictures will be of interest. They are of the largest layout I ever personally built.I was unaware I had pictures of it under construction until my wife found them today. Hopefully it will be some inspiration for your layout kickoff event.
I cannot deny that I have spent more money on trains than I ever intended to but at least the purchases were spread out over 40 years.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice pice on circus meant to ask what do you mean by it has three springs.

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Many but not all of the 1952 and 1953 plastic boiler 302's with 5 wires and red glowing smoke have the longer 3 spring trucks on the tender. Same goes for the 1952 302AC engines.


----------



## AmFlyer

Al, here are two pictures that show the difference between a short two spring Type I truck and a long 3 spring Type 4 truck.


----------



## mopac

Al, the 3 spring trucks are a little longer. Advantage of that on tender trucks is it helps to retain power going through turnouts and the 90 degree crossover. If they lose power the reverse unit will kick into neutral and locomotive will stop.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks Trackman, my view is all the years were good, some were better than others. In 1989 my AF collection was about 5 to 10% of what it is today. I always tried to buy high quality pieces, OB's and SB's whenever possible. I would rather have 10 outstanding items than 50 average pieces.
> December 29th of 1989 we were relocated back to Chicgo and bought a house in Wheaton a quick 4 miles from the DuPage Fair Grounds. That is when my collection exploded in size.


Great looking Santa Fe engines you have there Tom not to mention the very nice circus set.
So you lived in Wheaton only 4 miles from the Fair Grounds? I have a friend who lived a block north of the UP over pass tracks just north of the Fair Grounds. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. When I was attending those train shows regularly, he would meet me at the shows. At first he wasn't an AF train collector but I converted him. Or as he said, I corrupted him. He has a small but nice collection of NIB or similar grade cars and a Santa Fe set like your pictures show with OB's and all the passenger cars in the set box. I don't know the set number. I do know that even back then those many years ago he paid what I thought was a fortune for that set. He now lives in North Aurora and has stopped collecting. He puts his pension money into his 1st Gen Viper now days.
I just thought of another coincidence with my friend and you Tom. Didn't you say you were in the electronics industry some way? He was in the industrial electronics sales business.

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Mo pac thankyou i didnt know there were two different length trucks on that style. 

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny I lived north of the tracks and used that narrow bridge over the tracks frequently including going to the Train Show. Your friend had the 5008 set. I have two of those with all OB's and the two SB's. Why? because I also have the two set factory master shipping carton. Very few of these master cartons survived so I decided to keep this one for posterity.
I am in the E&C industry, not the electronics business.


----------



## alaft61ri

Picked up 2 955 maroon american flyer line. one 735 new haven maroon. And one 623 Illinois cental orange. Photos.


----------



## mopac

Nice additions Al.


----------



## AmFlyer

Look good. Do you have the 766 station to go with the 735 operating coach?


----------



## AFGP9

Nice New Haven's Al. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny I lived north of the tracks and used that narrow bridge over the tracks frequently including going to the Train Show. Your friend had the 5008 set. I have two of those with all OB's and the two SB's. Why? because I also have the two set factory master shipping carton. Very few of these master cartons survived so I decided to keep this one for posterity.
> I am in the E&C industry, not the electronics business.


Tom living that close to the Fair Grounds and the shows would have been both a nice convenience and a very big temptation to never go home empty handed. If I ever ran across a master shipping carton I would still have it as well. My friend still has that 5008 set you identified. Like mopac, he has never had a layout. Just liked collecting. He had a master cabinet maker make a beautiful display cabinet for his train pieces and his wife's gazillion Precious Moments figures. She got the cabinet in the divorce. When he moved to North Aurora, he had the same guy build another display cabinet. 
Pardon my ignorance but what is E&C? Somehow I got the idea you were/are an electrical engineer. Sorry. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Shorthand for Engineering and Construction. I am an EE but I only was in an EE job for about three years. I diverged off into general engineering management, project management then business and corporate leadership roles.
I will repost pictures of the master carton tomorrow. Back in those days there were a lot of train shows. Four a year in Milwaukee, two S Fests per year and the traveling Greenberg shows that I made two of per year. My secretary put all the known train shows on my calendar regardless of city so when possible I could match up trips with out of town shows. That was usually four more shows/year. I did most of the damage at DuPage, and S Fest. It was nice to be 10 minutes away, one show I found some nice things with a new vendor so I called my wife to hurry over and bring me more cash, I got away with that one! If it was John Heck or a few others I would just send them a check on Monday for the items. Good times! Before Covid hit I had plans to attend S fest and a DuPage show this year, oh well.
I liked collecting but I almost always had some type of layout to run a few trains.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks for the explanation of the meaning of E&C. I don't know where I got the idea you were involved in electronics. 
Good that you were able to combine your work trips with train shows with your secretary's help.
I attended most any train show wherever I could drive to. Hardly missed Du Page, and never missed an S Fest when they were in Tinley Park, I didn't attend every Milwaukee S Fest but often enough. Then the yearly shows in Bellville, IL. Collinsville, IL. and St. Clair County that I think was a Greenberg show down by St.Louis. Can't forget Galesburg Railroad Days during June which I think has a Greenberg show also. I just went. Didn't care who was doing the train show there. I haven't been to any of those shows in years. Now days I hate long drives. Maybe an age thing? For pure enjoyment, just south of Cincinnati there is a place called "Entertrainment Junction". Fantastic G gauge train display. It is too big to call it a layout since it comprises most of a building and you walk through the display with trains running all around. If you ever get over that way check it out. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I was suppose to get my 2 302ACs today. Tracking says delivery delayed. Imagine that,
the mail running slow. So not going to happen today. My packages have been taking
longer and longer. At one time I had a great mailman. Delivery time within 10 minutes
every day. About 3 years ago he retired. Sometimes you don't know what you are missing
till it is gone. Here it is 3 years later and a permanent route man has not been assigned.
I get mail 3 or 4 times a week. Some days no delivery. I guess I have gotten use to piss
poor service. And shipping rates keep going up.


----------



## alaft61ri

AmFlyer said:


> Look good. Do you have the 766 station to go with the 735 operating coach?


No not yet


----------



## alaft61ri

AmFlyer said:


> Look good. Do you have the 766 station to go with the 735 operating coach?


Not yet.


----------



## AmFlyer

Al, its always good to have a vision for some more acquisitions!
Kenny, here are two pictures of my master carton. This is for the two 5108W sets I have. In the side view of the box note the small OPS price certification stamp on the lower right that was required during the Korean war.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice master carton to have. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Nice case box Tom. Very cool.

I have a few master cartons for diecast cartons I bought. GreenLight was the company name. They started an online club I belonged to. They started selling master cartons of cars direct from the factory. Got some great stuff. Each master carton contained 4 boxes. The boxes each contained 12 cars. I bought many for resale. I did diecast shows and do not have any of the cars. They all sold. Which is always a good thing. GreenLight made "chase" cars. You could count on at least one chase car per master carton. I do still have some of the chase cars. That is what I collected, not the regular cars.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I was suppose to get my 2 302ACs today. Tracking says delivery delayed. Imagine that,
> the mail running slow. So not going to happen today. My packages have been taking
> longer and longer. At one time I had a great mailman. Delivery time within 10 minutes
> every day. About 3 years ago he retired. Sometimes you don't know what you are missing
> till it is gone. Here it is 3 years later and a permanent route man has not been assigned.
> I get mail 3 or 4 times a week. Some days no delivery. I guess I have gotten use to piss
> poor service. And shipping rates keep going up.


As I said the other day, we should get ready for worse mail service with the up coming election and the mail in ballots. First there are no train shows to attend and now forever mail delivery service since it looks like if we want anything we have to rely on eBay or other such sites. I have been buying some 1:43 AHL trucks to add to my layout. They have come from all over so it takes several days for delivery but it seems the monthly bills come in on time. How is that? I'm thinking the difference is parcel delivery is not as important as regular mail. Even Priority Mail delivery time isn't what it's supposed to be. Looks like we will have to get used to it and relax and wait. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I buy very little on line. My wife buys something almost every day and at least half of the clothes and shoes are returned. She only deals with suppliers that offer the option of shipping by UPS or FedEx. I do order wine from some favorite vineyards, none of them would ever consider trusting their wine to the USPS.


----------



## AmFlyer

In this post we have two pictures of old GarGraves turnouts. Not sure how familiar anyone is with these products as they are long out of production. My reason for posting these will be apparent next week. The plastic base Gar Graves turnout with its OB required adjustments to get reliable operation. They are #6 turnouts and require some space to fit into a track plan. The other turnout is a #4 made by ROW Industries using GarGraves rail and ties. They also made #6 and #8‘s as well. The actuator with spare relay contacts for power routing and position indication is NJ Industries. I bought these turnouts from a DuPage Show vendor in 1991. I bought all the ROW #4’s he had but stupidly passed on the #6 and #8’s he had, sure wish I had those today.


----------



## alaft61ri

Cool  kinda of funky looking.

Al


----------



## mopac

I know some of you are a little leery of buying on ebay. I have had wonderful luck buying
on ebay. Well over 90% satisfaction. The best train store in the world. My luck continued
today. I got 2 packages today. One package was 4 rerailers. 2 of them look brand new.
The other 2 are slightly used but in very good condition. So Happy Happy. The other box
had 2 locomotives. My 2 302ACs finally made it to me. They are both in what I would call
excellent condition. Super happy with both of them. They are twins. Great paint , Great
lettering, Great whitewalls, 100% complete. Seller said they did not run. Not hard to see
why, They both have a wire loose at the plug. I will probably put a new harness on both.
Only thing I can see so far is one of the engnes has been rewired. They used white and
red wire so not hard to spot. I should have some black wire here I can redo. I will get some
pics of the new to me locos and the rerailers. LOL, they are nice enough to get a pic of.

I do have to admit I got a disappointment last week. A green 650. Seller graded it a C6.
It is nowhere near a 6. I did send seller a message telling him his grading is way off.
3/4 inch piece of shell broke off near a step. diffuser paper missing. Very dirty piece. So
dirty I missed the defects in the pics. Study those pics.

I will get pics posted in a bit.


----------



## mopac

Here are the 6 new to me rerailers I have gotten recently. The 2 on the left are the ones
I suspect are brand new, unused. The others just need a little cleaning. Got one box.


----------



## AmFlyer

They all look good. I hope you can put them to good use.


----------



## mopac

Here are my new twins.

Pic uploading not workng.


----------



## mopac

Here are my new twins.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice 302AC's mopac. Great, sharp lettering on the engine and the tender. A lot of the time the engine number on the engine is sharp and clear but the tender lettering is not so good due to handling. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Be careful not to leave the track and engines unattended for long. I looked closely at the background and did not see any metal chewing squirrels eying them but you never know.


----------



## mopac

They are out there Tom.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> They are out there Tom.


 Yeah what Tom said mopac. I know you mentioned those metal eating squirrels eating your fence. Don't suppose you have noticed them liking AF track have you? 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I know better than to leave track out for them. They are very destructive.
I have a bunch of flower pots. Plastic and clay. They have chewed on every pot rim.
The hawks have left my backyard. Hate that. When the hawks were here I did not
see a squirrel. There was a big hawk in the back yard this morning. A different kind
of hawk than I had a few weeks ago. They were hawks that migrate and I guess they
moved on. Seems early for birds to migrate, although I have seen some leaves falling 
already.


----------



## AmFlyer

I was just thinking how upset I would be if some rodent was chewing on the pots I have. Our pots are concrete so not especially attractive and we have a lot of cactus that the larger rodents keep away from. There are a lot of hawks that fly patrol here so that helps. I think the main consumers of the squirrels, skunks, rabbits and stray pets are the coyotes since we seem to have none of the former. The coyotes live on the slopes among the mesquite bushes and appear to be very well fed.


----------



## mopac

I have seen one coyote in my back yard. Middle of the day. I do not think I have many of them. Darn it.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I know better than to leave track out for them. They are very destructive.
> I have a bunch of flower pots. Plastic and clay. They have chewed on every pot rim.
> The hawks have left my backyard. Hate that. When the hawks were here I did not
> see a squirrel. There was a big hawk in the back yard this morning. A different kind
> of hawk than I had a few weeks ago. They were hawks that migrate and I guess they
> moved on. Seems early for birds to migrate, although I have seen some leaves falling
> already.


Mopac, with all the strong thunderstorms and high wind a few weeks back, I got a lot of leaves down. Mine falling have nothing to do with the time of year though. No hawks around here but I have seen several foxes. 4 legged type. You got some kind of weird squirrels down there that's for sure. Maybe those squirrels don't get enough nuts in there diet.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

They have plenty of nuts. They have acorns, hickory, and walnuts here.
They sharpen their teeth on the metal. Idiots. Maybe I should get rid of the trees.
No food, no squirrels.


----------



## AFGP9

I was thinking since those squirrels like chewing on metal, maybe they lacked something in their diet. I remember you saying they also ate your truck's wiring a couple of times. I guess they like more variety in their diet. You got the only squirrels I've ever heard of that chew and sharpen their teeth on metal. Maybe you should contact some university and have their biology students do a study on those things. You may have a rare breed that likes metal. You could become famous for having the only ones like them. 
Save those trees. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thought I would post a couple of 302 pictures. This one is a 1952 5-wire, red glowing smoke and 3 spring tender trucks. These 1952 engines run great and pull a surprising number of cars. All they needed is some wire handrails and more detailed linkage to be perfect.
The pictures were taken almost 25 years ago on my 1995 Christmas layout. My wife has been working diligently to find, organize and ultimately scan my layout pictures. She has found pictures of almost every layout built. These are just interim iPhone pictures of prints.


----------



## mopac

Very nice looking 302s. Great looking layout. Nice you still have some pics.
I too usually had a train around the tree. Mainly when my sons were young.
Since my 282 was not running during this period I was running G scale
around the tree. G looks nice around the tree. Might be hard to come up
with pics. Thanks for showing your pics.


----------



## AmFlyer

I bought a nice G scale set with a simple wireless remote for my son to use around his tree. It did look good and was easy for very young kids to operate. He has since gone back to American Flyer under the tree. Of course he can drive an hour north and help himself to some items from my collection for his layout.
It is vey nice to have all these pictures. My wife currently has organized over a thousand layout pictures taken from 1959 to 2019, with more to sort through. The pictures also tell a slightly different story about how my layouts evolved from year to year than what I remembered. When the professional hi-res scans are done, likely two or three months from now, I am thinking of posting a time line of layout pictures. Still pondering about that.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice pictures you have there Tom. It is good you can go back and find old pictures. I wish I had taken pictures over the years. I've never been a picture taker of anything. As such, I have lost a lot of history that today I regret. From train layouts, to drag racing pictures of all the cars I built and raced from my beginning in the early 60's, and all the muscle cars I have owned. I got maybe 10 pictures of all of it. The same with family pictures. Bottom line, pictures are great history so everybody should take as many as they can. Don't make the mistake I have. 
Looking forward to more of your history pictures Tom. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

No doubt it is nice to have a lot of pictures taken throughout the years. During the weeks we have been sorting through stacks of pictures we keep saying "why didn't we mark dates on the back of all these pictures." We have been able to date everything so far but it has taken a lot of time.
Kenny its a real shame you do not have more pictures of the neat things you were involved in.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom, not dating pictures is another thing I didn't do. I have few family pictures that are not dated. When my late wife was with me, she would date the ones she took but I never did.
I do know that at one time my mom had many Christmas pictures of us kids as we were growing up with our gifts.
I remember seeing pictures of me with a large Marx train, floor lay out with 2 switches, crossing signals, and a 4412 metal Glendale Station which, for some odd reason, I still have. Maybe from around 1950. I had that Marx set way before my first American Flyer set. Other pictures show me and Tonka trucks, a dozer, a crane, Buddy L semi's, other such toys. Wish I could find those. We have looked but no luck. My mom is 94 and in a home so all her stuff got sold or divided between my brothers and sisters. Oddly, nobody has any of the missing pictures. Of course mom has no memory of any pictures. I should watch what I say about lost memory as I have the same problem.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

For a photo of the day I picked one that was taken around Thanksgiving of 1990, shortly after we moved from Dana Point to Chicago. This is in the Wheaton house near the DuPage Fairgrounds. The bookshelves are on each side of the fireplace but who would even think about putting books on them when there were trains to be displayed? The clown is one of my wife’s collectibles. 
I had put out some interesting items such as the early Royal Blue with the indented side tender and B&O logo, and the circus set with the additional pale yellow unpainted coach and a red circus flat. There is a white 640 and a red 631.
Of interest to car people is the item in front of the nose of the 350 engine. That is a working replacement clock for the left hand gauge cluster in my 1969 442. The clock sat in the center of the tach and included the numerals for the tach.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice Tom, especially the circus set. Is that the one you bought at Du Page or do I have my stories mixed up? I see you have a white 640 hopper displayed also. I have yet to find a Royal Blue indented side tender. I do have a 300 with an indented side which I posted some time ago. 
By the way, as of now the Kane county show slated for Oct. 18 is still on. Did you ever go? Since they built a large auditorium type building right in the center of the grounds where some of the livestock buildings used to be, there is ample room for people to spread out. However, since the governor has just issued new restraint orders for Cook, Kane, Grundy, and Kankakee counties because of an alleged up tick in recorded positive tests in that area, I doubt it will actually happen. I was looking forward to going. I have always been able to get some good bargains at that show because a lot of venders sold more than just trains and the AF stuff was just extra to them. Tonka, Buddy L, Smith Miller, pedal cars and tractors, and other such brands were their main focus. Of course there were Du Page train sellers there as well. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The circus set is the one I bought from John Heck at the DuPage show. The show held at Kane sounds interesting for whenever they are again held. I thought I could make it to some out of state train shows this year but not now. I will not travel at all for the rest of the year and unlikely at least the first half of next year.


----------



## AFGP9

So my memory isn't as bad as I thought regarding that circus set. I thought you had said it was bought from John Heck at Du Page. Speaking of which, I found his business card which I thought I had lost. Of course I found it where it shouldn't have been while looking for something else. As I said, the biggest reason I wanted to go to the Kane county show was because most of the Du Page sellers were usually there plus all the toy venders and I was hoping for at least one good show this year. Except for that show, like you, I have scraped any plans for going to any shows the rest of this year. I have relatives near Indy and had planned a visit around the Fair Grounds show date but not now.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sounds like your memory, at least of train things, is top notch!
Here are two more related pictures. One of the indented tender 350, the 350 looks much better in real life, I think this was a lot of reflection of light from the outside. The other is the book shelves on the other side of the fireplace. Note the Rocket Sled in its correct original KleerPak, the angled rocket launcher and the 1952 342. The 405 is the one with the traction tires.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice lots of nice stuff royal blue is nice .know with indent with the lettering those r rare. Right
Al


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice Tom. Which 372 is that you have there? I also see those Gilbert street light sets there in the OB boxes. I can think of only seeing a KleerPac Rocket Sled one other time. You certainly have gone to great lengths to get some of the best cars. Looks like a nice 933 there also. Those are so hard to fine in an 8 grade or better. Most show wear very easily because of the white color I suspect. Mine is layout grade, maybe a 7 since there is slight wear on 2 of the corners. Since I got it for $15 I won't complain. I'd probably never run that 405 for fear of scratching that chrome finish. Were it mine it would be in one of my glass display cases.
As for the 350, what's not to like? Beautiful. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The 372 on the shelf is the Gilbert version, I did not buy an American Flyer version until 2000. I put that 405 on my 1990 Christmas layout a month after this picture was taken. I was very careful. The streetlights were made by H&H Sales in Pittsburgh, where I grew up. They are much more rare today than the Gilbert ones.
Al, the indented tender is much less common than the non indented version.


----------



## AFGP9

The 405 with those 3 chrome cars makes a very nice train. Sure wouldn't be hard to see running around the layout. Especially under a tree with the lights reflecting off it. I have yet to get the 372 American Flyer version. I've seen them but to much money for the condition. I'll keep looking. My Gilbert 372 will just have to wait for it's mate. I have never heard of the H&H brand of street light. Nice boxes too. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The H&H streetlights are identical in size and shape to the Gilbert streetlights. The main difference is the H&H lights have metal posts vs plastic on the Gilbert ones. Also gold color vs green.
That chrome and polished aluminum set looks good under the tree lights as you say.


----------



## AFGP9

I have a set of the Gilbert streetlights but never put them up. They are loose, no box. Got them in a collection I bought some time ago. Somewhere I have some metal silver or metallic gray streetlights too. I got those in the same collection. They need repainted since they have not had the best of care before I got them. I really hadn't thought much about them until now. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Love the lights and photos thanks for the info on the 350 tender. Never saw one like that.
Al


----------



## JMedwick

The photo with the white 640 for made me finally notice that the gondola car I gave my son was a white 640 with black lettering. I am generally not a fan of gondola cars and he liked it, so I gave it to him. I didn’t know it was something unusual.


----------



## mopac

The white 640 is on my want list. They seem to run 10.00 to 20.00 on ebay.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac try finding a marble one too. Both are hard to find. I have all of the variations thankfully. Since they are all nice, I don't need to upgrade. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, you have my attention. I never heard of a marbelized 640. If you have one please post a picture. I own a lot of marbelized control buttons and have seen a marbelized 360 shell.
The rarest variation is the black 640 with white lettering but have not seen one. Unlikely I would spend the money to get it even if I had the opportunity.
I am not really a fan of the plain 640's, I much prefer the Wabash 640.


----------



## Kelpieflyer

Here's a photo of a nice 1948 302 that I got from Flyernut. I've wanted on of these for a long time. Really like the die cast engines. 

This engine is very nice.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice engine!


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice looking


----------



## mopac

It is a nice looking engine. Congrats on your addition.


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking 302. Gotta love those handrails.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom here is my marbled 640 plus the "white" one. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Thanks for showing those Kenny. Good pics. I knew about the marble one but only seen 2 or 3.The white one is a must have, I could go either way on the marble one. Not enough
marble for me. I am getting more cars than I could ever use. Need to slow down on buying.
I have only been doing AF for around 4 years. So I had alot of catching up with you guys.
I don't think I have anything on the way to me. LOL, I do have a few things on my watch list.


----------



## AmFlyer

So that is what is called marbeled in a 640! It is different than the buttons and diesel shells. The button marbelling was caused by a mixing of plastic bead colors during the injection process. This looks different but definitely not pure gray. I have seen a few hoppers like that in the past.


----------



## AFGP9

I too have some marbled buttons. You are right Tom, this hopper isn't marbled the way the buttons are. This hopper marble color shows up better than it photographed. As far as that variation of the 640, I have only seen one and that's the one you see. I have looked but never found any more. 

Here is another picture of the marbled 640. I didn't use it the first time because I don't like it. Not as sharp as I'd like. This picture still doesn't really show the marbling as well as in person. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Still looks cool. Here is a update on my 353 new dry transfer on shell and tender and new linkage on shell bushings came but i.d. .004 thousand too small have a reamer in work .162 thousands. Also 0.d. To big by .007 thousand turn them down in lathe .bushings for chassie. New jack panel came in to.
Al


----------



## AFGP9

Looks good Al. Nice job with the paint work and lettering. Just shows what can be done with most any locomotive when striped, painted, and a little effort. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Engine shell and tender shell look great. Its moving along.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thankyou 
Al


----------



## AFGP9

My contribution to the Photo of The Day. Even though I have two versions of the N&W RY, 42597, KC and link shown, the previous owner converted it to a KC car. The best part is having both versions of the 928 New Haven car even though the one doesn't have the lumber load. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Good pics of some nice cars. I have a few log cars also. The IC reefers look good also.
I only have one and its not the best. A little rough. But hey, many real cars are that way
also. Never seen a train with all new cars.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Good pics of some nice cars. I have a few log cars also. The IC reefers look good also.
> I only have one and its not the best. A little rough. But hey, many real cars are that way
> also. Never seen a train with all new cars.


Mopac, that's been my thoughts all along. While I do have some grade 8 and NIB cars, they are not on my layout. No real train ever had any new cars of any sort. I have a total of 8 IC cars. Some linkers, some KC'S. Most cars on my layout show some kind of wear as they should. I like it that way. In fact I have been a little like Pig Pen from Peanuts. I like a little dirt and scruffy appearance. As I have said before, you can buy those skinned up cars a lot cheaper than the better ones. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice pic


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Al. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Interesting how the 905 car has different metal bands for the logs.


----------



## alaft61ri

Had tis flat car with nothing on it . so one day i was in tractor supply store and saw these. Here is a pic what i did.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

That works well.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Interesting how the 905 car has different metal bands for the logs.


That band difference was the first thing I noticed before I bought it. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Al, I have some tractors that would have worked but decided to use the dozers even though they are a bit undersized to be scale. After seeing your tractors, maybe I should have gone that route. They look good.


----------



## mopac

Here is my flat car of tractors.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thankyou guys .
Al


mopac said:


> Here is my flat car of tractors.
> 
> View attachment 546987


Nice sharpe looking.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Those red tractors appear to be S scale.


----------



## mopac

They are Tom. 1/64. Most of my diecast collection is 1/64, so when I found the tractors in a store I had to have them. That was before I got into S trains. Works out. The tractors are
dedicated to the trains now.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, those tractors look good on that 928. Maybe I will change my dozers out for some of the 1/64th tractors from my collection. 
Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

It has been quiet here for a few days. Here are some pictures we just found of what was to be a permanent layout in the basement of our Wheaton house. These were taken in 1991. I was in a hurry to get some trains running, the studs are in but I went back later to add the insulation. We had to pack up and move before the drywall was done, and before the layout was done. The layout was built as an “L” with the foot attached at 45deg to the angled end of the layout. These pictures were taken prior to that part of construction. This layout used all ROW Industries #4 and #6 turnouts with GarGraves flex track. The main section pictured was 6’x16’. The foot of the “L” not shown was 4’x6’. This was one of only two houses we owned with a basement, lived in it for three years.


----------



## alaft61ri

Pretty cool i like it .

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Al. I was disappointed when I could not finish it and had to take it apart for the move.


----------



## mopac

That would have been nice to finish. Great start.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom too bad you couldn't get that finished. That would have made an interesting layout. Nice configuration. Then again if you had finished, there would have been that much more to tear down when you moved. Nice looking Santa Fe chrome set. Are those Pullman green coaches or olive behind that 370? Looks like at least the rear 2 cars are the long truck type. Nice Flyer stuff you have there. Love your wiring there just below the control area. I see you used at least one AF switch that the Hudson is sitting on. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The yard and siding track switches were Gilbert. Below is a closeup of two of the four green 652/3/4 heavyweights on the layout. These are 1950 production unpainted Bakelite with the single number centered on the sides. Some refer to the color as olive. The 364 is pulling the chrome plated plastic coaches rather than the aluminum cars for weight reasons with the 3% grade. There are times I miss that basement, but never the winter weather.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom, the only reason I refer to those Pullman heavy weights as olive is because that's what Doyle lists them as plus the ones I've seen at train shows look like it to me. The ones I have seen have all been unpainted. Very nice. Those are on my want list. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Years ago those passenger cars sold for $125 in E condition. The price has dropped some, I recall seeing them now in the $75 range in E condition, no box. Mine have the OB's. I see the Deger book calls them green with olive green in parenthesis.


----------



## alaft61ri

very nice like the olive green.

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

For comparison here is a repost of the green painted 652.


----------



## AmFlyer

If you prefer knuckle couplers here are the two color choices. The green is the same as on the painted 652 above.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice there like new.

Al


----------



## Mikeh49

I recall that some of the "heavyweights" had opening doors. In particular, at the small town Minnesota hardware store that had a Christmas layout. I know about the die-cast chassis and steps. but where do the doors come in? I seem to recall that they were not only with the operating station, but maybe not.


----------



## AmFlyer

One of the opening doors can be seen on the dark green 652 in my first picture above, it is a different color of green than the Bakelite car. The steps and underbody detail are plastic as is the chassis. The 735 operating passenger loading/unloading coach is a different car based on the New Haven cars.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice cars. I did notice that one of the doors was a different color green than the car body. I saw one with the same different colored door at a train show and thought the seller was playing games so I didn't buy it, especially for the price he wanted . Now I learn that maybe that was the way operating doors were made by Gilbert. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Gilbert never used a paint for the pivoting doors that matched the almost olive colored green of the Bakelite.


----------



## AFGP9

Good to know Tom.

Kenny


----------



## Mikeh49

I should think before I post, not to mention looking at the picture more closely. I mixed up the New Haven cars die-cast chassis steps etc with the heavyweights. Did the heavyweight have the die-cast chassis also? Then went to plastic similar to the New Haven going to sheet metal?


----------



## AmFlyer

The heavyweights always used a plastic chassis complete with molded in steps and underbody detail.


----------



## AmFlyer

Since it is a Sunday afternoon with bad air quality here I am staying indoors. Went to get my red heavyweight cars to take some pictures but they were not where I thought I put them. That space was occupied by thIs 470/471/473 Santa Fe set. I took some pictures and here they are. It was almost like Christmas in September, I had not seen these engines in 25+ years.
This is a relatively rare 1957 set. It has Santa Fe nose decals, Built by Gilbert stamped on the sides, black and white Santa Fe cross logos under the cab windows and lastly single rivet sheet metal sets.


----------



## JMedwick

Love the photos of the 470/473. I just got one and spent today trying to recenter the field coil. PITA. But it works now.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom as usual very nice. I know I have trouble finding stuff but it sure hasn't been 25+ years since I have seen anything I have. I remember your description and pictures of how you have stuff stored and how much you have. Not finding these for 25+ years should be considered a crime. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

If it is a crime then I hope the sentence is to run them on the layout for a day! I still have not found my 4730A 342AC set that I wanted to finish up my series of boxed set pictures with. It is the one pictured on the top of p36 in the Joe Deger Vol.III Sets book. Not one like it, the specific set that was photographed. I bought it from Dennis Bagby shortly after the pictures were taken for the book.


----------



## AFGP9

I presume by bad air quality you mean from the fires? I have a friend who lives up in Yuba County and she tells me the air quality is bad up there. 
Tom, I have always been a "let the punishment fit the crime" kind of guy so the punishment you propose regarding your running your 470/471/473 set I think is adequate. Run those baby's all day! While I don't have a copy of Joe Deger's Vol.III Sets book, at least when I do run across one I'll know where that set pictured on p36 is now and who it came from. Although I don't know Dennis Bagby I do now about his amazing collection. 

As a side note, a while back I said I would try and find the article concerning all the KleerPak cars. So far not so good. Still looking. I don't spend never ending hours looking but when I do have the time I do look through old copies of S Gaugian and Classic Toy Trains which I don't mind doing since I get to read long forgotten articles from both publications. CT at least has an on line summary of past articles from each year. This is beginning to look like a winter project for when I can't be or don't want to be outside.You do remember what I mean don't you?


----------



## mopac

Tom, your PAs there look great. Nice engines.


----------



## AmFlyer

Those 1957 PA/PB's were always intended as a display shelf set. The 470 does have a 4 position reverse unit, not a 2 position as in most 1957's.
The amount of smoke and ash in the air is hard to imagine until you see it. One of the reasons is there has been almost no wind so any smoke below 15k feet just disperses throughout the region. Smoke that rises to 20k feet gets into the bottom of the jet stream and goes to Michigan and Ohio. Usually the fires are coincident with strong Santa Ana winds that blow the smoke out to sea.
There is a list of all articles in every issue of CTT online, but no summaries of the contents. I can mentally recall pictures from that article but do not remember when or where it was published. I know an exhaustive treatise and documentation of all the Mini-Craft buildings was in the Q (TCA Quarterly.) Any chance the KleerPak article was in the Q?


----------



## AmFlyer

For pictures today I thought something unusual would be of interest to some of the readers here. I have posted a lot of pictures taken on my layout but it is almost impossible to get the entire layout in a picture. Early in the layout design process before the track plan was finalized we did a large number of 3D renderings so I could see how the layout would appear in the room and verify sight lines. These also provides a perspective of how the layout fills every square inch of the room. Below are a couple of the 3D views from the CAD file.


----------



## mopac

Very cool Tom. Super nice plan. I really like the last pic with all the bridges.
I am a bridge freak. I do have some nice HO bridges but there will be none
on my S scale layout. S layout will be built in sections and I need the sections
to be stackable. That rules out bridges and raised track.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is another view of the bridges from a different vantage point. I also included a picture of the bridges in construction. The bridge superstructures are removable. Just got to have at least one bridge.


----------



## mopac

Your bridges are very nice. I like them all.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, there was a lot happening at the river crossing.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice Tom. You gotta have bridges! I got one large one that serves as an opening into my layout that is hinged on one end and has to be raised in order to walk in. That took a lot of trial and error to get figured out for good, long lasting operation. I posted a picture of it some time ago. Might have to post it again.

Regarding your Santa Fe set, the first thing that caught my eye was the black emblem below the cab window and the one rivet ladder. I had 2 Rocket PA/PB sets with the passenger cars and they both were 2 rivet ladders. Some times I'm sorry I sold those, other times I look at what I bought with the money and am not sorry. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I think that bridge deserves a repost!


----------



## alaft61ri

Love the santa fa's very sharp also like the bridges.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Al. 
Today I opened for the first time and unboxed a 1987 Lionel Flyer boxcar. Not sure why I bought all these cars, I must have liked their appearance when they were first cataloged. I have been saving many of these cars unopened but have decided to put some on the layout. This is a silver Canadian Pacific with red lettering. It looks pretty good on the track. This one is headed to the oval of track on my office floor that is saving the space for a future all Gilbert layout. Unfortunately the track must be taken apart every other Wednesday so the cleaning crew can vacuum the carpet on Thursday morning. 
I like having the smell of original Gilbert smoke fluid at my desk.


----------



## alaft61ri

Looks nice a nice gray. I bought a new one last weekend havent got a chance to show it maybe tonight i will.
Al


----------



## alaft61ri

This is what i bought .


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice!


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I think that bridge deserves a repost!


I will do that after I take a picture of it. I deleted the one I had in a folder.

Nice car Tom. I've always liked those 48302 Canadian Pacific cars. Don't know why I don't have one. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking car Al !

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Tom, I have seen that silver CN box car. Almost pulled the trigger a few times. Good looking.

Al, I am not big on the Christmas cars but I really like that one. Good addition.


----------



## alaft61ri

Yea me either but saw this and it caught my eye . so what the hell. Thanjyou everyone Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Like a very old Pringles commercial, it is hard to have just one Christmas boxcar. I can tell you all about what happens.


----------



## alaft61ri

Yes that is so true its like lays potatoe chip just cant have one. Lol


----------



## AFGP9

I have a few of those Christmas cars also. I stopped buying them because they were addictive.

Here is a my Photo of The day of one of my glass case inhabitants. Looks like that end shot came out supersized.

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice like the color.
Al


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Al. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The NH boxcars really stand out.


----------



## AFGP9

Yes they stand out Tom. That picture doesn't do that car justice. The orange looks better than shown. I even took the picture in my photo booth. I'm thinking I didn't have the overhead light set at the right angle. Trust me, I'm no photographer. Trial and error. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Super sharp car Kenny. I hope to have one someday.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, for some reason those two pictures of the NH car have an overall reddish tint to them. I am not sure why that would happen with a modern non-film camera.
Here is a repost of my 5 digit NH, I think the color balance is good on this picture.


----------



## AmFlyer

This is interesting. When I looked at the above picture online I saw the color of the NYC boxcar is way off, it is not that kelly green, it should have more blue. The color of the NH is a bit to the red. I went back to the photo file on my iPad for comparison and the colors are spot on to the actual car! Something is happening to the colors in the posting and file storage process with the MTF site.


----------



## AFGP9

Maybe my lighting wasn't quite right on that NH car as I mentioned earlier. Maybe you are onto something in regards to the posting and file storage process with the MTF site. I think maybe I will play around with my lighting. My lighting in my photo booth where that picture was taken, is more over head than at an angle at present. I am not a photographer by any stretch. Trial and error has been my schooling. I don't know an F stop from a bus stop. I noticed the angle that you used to take the picture of your NH was at a slight downward angle while mine was straight on. I'll play around here and see what "develops". I did notice the color tint of the NYC car after you pointed if out. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

I will have to ck mine i have one with the same color not sure of the number like the orange.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

I typically take pictures of the rolling stock at that angle so any roof details or paint colors are visible. Plus with a sheet metal chassis there is no underbody detail that would show in a track level picture. The color on this picture post is way off from my original. I had not noticed that in previous posts.


----------



## AmFlyer

I just went back and looked at some of my posts from a year ago. The oranges in the posted images are way off when compared side by side with my original picture file. I never noticed that before.


----------



## AmFlyer

I am posting this picture to see how the NYC green and the PRR blue green render on the MTF site. On my iPad and on my large screen TV monitor these car colors are exact matches for the actual car on the layout.


----------



## AmFlyer

Ok, I solved the color issue, it is the color saturation settings on my desk computer monitor. The iPad shows perfect colors of all the pictures so I connected my computer to the 65" 4K monitor in my office. The colors are almost perfectfor all the pictures, Just the PRR is slightly off. The oranges are perfect. Kenny, yours still has an orange/tan appearance on the white photo booth. So the color problem was mine, looks like I need to dig into the settings and readjust.


----------



## alaft61ri

Real nice nice colors. This is my N H 984 orange new haven.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice one.


----------



## mopac

Tom, you might be right about color problem being the forum.
My 29425 looks more red than orange. The car is orange.
Is anybody else having any trouble loading pics. Mainly during the day for me.
Later at night it works. Maybe they are still workng on the new format.

Nice car Al. I like those.


----------



## mopac

Tom, your green and blue car looks right. Maybe reds and orange are tough for a computer.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac you are right. Your 2945 BAR car does look more red than orange. I think there is some sort of an issue with reds and oranges. Not saying my lighting in my photo both might not be a problem too. I could manipulate my colors, tint, and color saturation in Photo Gallery. If I take a picture of a car or engine on my layout as Tom did, I don't get that color problem even though that lighting is track lighting and 100 watt bulbs which would be about 4 feet above the layout and I can change the angle of those lights if need be.
Al, your nice looking NH orange color looks about right. It appears you took that picture with no background lighting. I'm trying to not over think this issue since most other pictures come out about right. Going by what photo studios do, they never use direct lighting on the subject being photograph. Always side lighting. When I tried that I got shadows so moved my light over head and behind me. Maybe a dimmer bulb?

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Uh, the 29425 is red, at least mine is. Al's 984 is now the correct orange and the NYC green is now correct.
The color problem I was seeing was caused by the color settings in the TV I use for my computer monitor. I spent 15 minutes going through all the advanced settings and the colors as well as the saturation are now correct. The clue was when I logged into the forum with my big iPad Pro and saw the colors correctly.


----------



## AFGP9

I got to thinking after I posted my comments and had to go look at my 29425. It too is red as I thought. I've been wrong before so had to confirm. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Thankyou guys all of yours look good . 
Al


----------



## mopac

LOL, maybe I just wanted my car to be orange or thought it should be. Never mind.


----------



## AmFlyer

Since I adjusted many of the settings in my monitor the color in my train pictures looks far better and true to the actual item. The display I use for my computer is a 42" 4k TV.
Here is a picture that contains several greens, an orange and a couple of red items. It was taken at track level. The lighting was a combination of some daylight with 3000K overhead LED ceiling can lights. I think the colors came out great.


----------



## mopac

The colors look correct to me. Nice shot.


----------



## AFGP9

Those colors look just fine Tom, especially the NYC green.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, I just cannot believe how long I was looking at a mis-adjusted monitor screen. Those 4 cars are a mix of SHS and AM. They are very free rolling and the couplers work as they should. Thanks to everything in S being exactly 1/64 they can be freely intermixed with Gilbert and Lionel Flyer cars without standing out.


----------



## alaft61ri

Those are nice love your layout.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Al.


----------



## AmFlyer

Just thought I would post two pictures of a short train running around the floor of my office. Nothing new here. The engine is an American Flyer by Lionel TMCC Light Mikado. It is from the 2005 catalog. This one has been modifed to remove the flywheel and the Seuthe smoke unit and replace them with a modern Cruise control board and an MTH fan driven smoke unit. The train is a Gilbert 925, two Lionel AF cars and an American Models red NYC caboose. I like red and a lot of Gilbert scented smoke. This train has both.


----------



## AFGP9

As I have said before, nothing like the smell of American Flyer smoke. Too much is never enough. Looks good Tom. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Kenny. In my world Gilbert train smoke is like horsepower in cars, way too much is almost enough.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom, correct on both counts. Never met a car with too much horsepower. Always looked for ways to create more. Likewise in regards to Gilbert train smoke. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

The train looks great. I can almost smell the smoke here. Very nice. 
Those fan driven smoke units are great.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are a few more pictures of fragrant smoke I took on the layout yesterday. The Challenger was the second S gauge Legacy engine and the first that was true 1/64 scale. The Big Boy was the first but it is a little oversize for S because it used an old K Line casting.
The diesel is one of many I have with fan driven smoke. Lionel now puts smoke in all the Legacy diesels but none of the FlyerChief diesels. This is much better than it sounds and is realistic. I run diesels more often now that they also smoke.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice Tom! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks. With 2 or 3 engines running the smoke can be intense.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today for a Photo of the Day I am posting a picture my dad took Christmas Eve, 1949. This picture is significant to me because it is the first tree with a bit of a layout under it. I was not old enough to talk or walk and certainly do not recall it. I chose this to post because it shows my four original H&H street lights just a few days after they were purchased. The buildings are a detailed cardboard kit that my mother assembled, they are HO scale and can be illuminated so light glows through the windows. I still have them. The cars on the roadway actually run, there are 8 of them that circle the town. My dad made this by using a washing machine motor, three pulleys and a large size rubber drive belt. The cars are attached to the belt that is under the layout. I still have the cars.
The following year, 1950 the first American Flyer trains arrived.


----------



## mopac

Very cool pic Tom. My how time passes. I recognize the base from your other pics.
Very nice Christmas photo. Magical.

What-No video of the cars running? Just kidding. Not much video back then.


----------



## AmFlyer

My dad bought an 8mm movie camera in 1952, no videos before then. 
The brick paper around the base was called Chimney Paper back then. It is crepe paper and tended to stretch a bit over 2 or 3 weeks. That is the small brick size. I now use a commercial heavy duty corrugated brick paper on my layouts since the original stuff is no longer available. The commercial material is large brick size only.


----------



## AFGP9

Out standing idea with the washing machine motor and the running cars. Love the way that tree looks Tom. Takes me back to my childhood Christmases. My mom loved to drape the "ice sickles" or "tinsel" on quite heavily as your picture shows. I haven't seen ice icicles or tinsel in years. Is it still around or did some stupid government regulation deem it unsafe because kids might choke on if swallowed? Cool that you still have those cars and cardboard buildings.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I still have the C6 lights and the bubble lights as well as most of the ornaments on that tree. Those icicles were lead, no longer legal. Also when one of them fell across the track it would short out the transformer. The new ones are a type of plastic that are non conductive and safe to handle. They are still available but hard to find. About a decade ago I bought a lifetime supply of icicles in an after Christmas sale. I last put them on a tree in 2015, maybe this year I will use them again. When it gets close to Christmas I will post pictures of some of the collectibles.
My dad was far more mechanically inclined than I am.


----------



## AFGP9

Looking forward to those picture. I didn't know those early icicles were lead. That would for sure short out a transformer if one landed across both rails. I still don't remember seeing the newer version as you describe anywhere. I have some bubble lights but the newer version, not like yours, and one string of C6 lights has survived all these years. My dad used bubble lights all over the place not just on the tree. My parents were Christmas decorator crazy. My dad assembled my first American Flyer set with the cardboard trestles around the base of the tree in a figure 8. 
Since my wife's passing 5 years ago I don't do the tree anymore. Might get out some of my mechanical operating figures this year and put them in the middle of a small oval of track on the floor and run what red and green passenger cars I have and use those street lamps too. I'll see how my dog reacts to those moving figures being on the floor. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The newer icicles are mylar, similar to the metallic appearing party balloons. The old lead icicles are not smooth, they have fold ridges across them. They are not as shiny as the mylar replacements. If you want some old lead icicles go on ebay in Nov/Dec, there are always some used packages for sale. I never bought any, too pricey. By far the worst tree decorating product sold was Angel Hair. I was finely spun fiberglass intended to be spread out and put on a tree. It was really nasty stuff. If handled with bare hands resulted in scratched skin and a day of itching.
I do not recognize that collectors name. I think you will need to do a Christmas train layout this year, it is doubtful I will have one. Looking forward to pictures.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The newer icicles are mylar, similar to the metallic appearing party balloons. The old lead icicles are not smooth, they have fold ridges across them. They are not as shiny as the mylar replacements. If you want some old lead icicles go on ebay in Nov/Dec, there are always some used packages for sale. I never bought any, too pricey. By far the worst tree decorating product sold was Angel Hair. I was finely spun fiberglass intended to be spread out and put on a tree. It was really nasty stuff. If handled with bare hands resulted in scratched skin and a day of itching.
> I do not recognize that collectors name. I think you will need to do a Christmas train layout this year, it is doubtful I will have one. Looking forward to pictures.


Thanks for the information on the icicles and the ebay lead. I'll check it out. It looks like nobody caught my little pun regarding icicles when I wrote "ice sickles". I wasn't a big fan of them since it seemed every time it came time to take the tree down, those things were everywhere. It seemed as though a couple of them would turn up on the carpet for months.
The collector I mentioned, Mark Speichert, was on the cover of a past issue of S Gaugian. They did an article on his layout and collection. No I didn't write down the issue but will go back and get it. The only reason I know the name was from the article in CTT on the KleerPac cars where they mentioned him as the supplier of all the cars in the article. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I missed the pun.
I saw the name in the KleerPak article but did not recognize it.
The 1949 picture I posted above is a scan of a negative my brother did at 600dpi. Consequently the resolution is not so great. On Wednesday we are taking Phase 1 of our picture scanning project to the professional shop for high resolution scanning. I have peviously scanned some 4x6 prints on my home flatbed scanner at 1200dpi and they were pretty good. We are having the prints scanned at 2400dpi and the negative of that picture along with the other 7 from the roll at 4800dpi. Hope to have them back in 2 weeks or so. Since the negative is in perfect condition I hope the image quality will be much better.


----------



## AFGP9

It seems as though I am going through a period of giving out wrong information. For whatever reason I said that Mark Speichert appeared on the cover of an issue of S Gaugian. WRONG AGAIN!! 
The picture of the guy I was thinking of and thought I remembered, (right there is the biggest problem, memory), is that of Ron Schicht and about his outstanding traveling show layout. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

When I was looking at my old Greenberg price guides I found this small card in the 1997 guide.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom that's a remember when, as in remember when we could go to those shows when they held them. I don't have any of my old Du Page tickets. Honestly, I haven't checked if they are having shows there now. With the state rules, I doubt it. Too many people in one place. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

All the events at the Fairground are cancelled through the end of the year. No DuPage Trainshows this year and possibly not next year. In 1996 I was living in SoCal. That show schedule was very important so my secretary could help plan my schedule and travel for me to be in Chicago for at least 4/year


----------



## AFGP9

Not surprised that all DuPage shows are cancelled. Rotten shame. Supposedly the Oct. 18th Railroadiana and Model Train Show is still on at the Kane County Fairgrounds. I haven't been to that show in 3 years. I always liked that show because of variety between real train merchandise and AF stuff. Actually got some pretty deals there. Some of the venders that attended the DuPage show would usually be at Kane as well. I will call before I drive 85 miles. Not to hopeful. 
I was just browsing eBay and came across a KlearPac 24125 Bethlehem Steal Gondola. $365. Car looks new, wheels show no wear but the KlearPac package has scuffing on it as the seller mentioned. It shows up in the pictures. For me that would be a train show only item so I could examine the packaging. I only mention this car because it is the first KlearPac I've seen on eBay in a very long time.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The main reason the DuPage shows are cancelled is the Fairgrounds were closed by the county. No reopening date has been set as of yet. The train show schedule will be set after the county provides a reopening plan and date. Concern is the Fairgrounds reopening plan may have restrictions that prevent the train show from operating profitably. Apparently Kane County is still open.
The most important thing for a KleerPak is that both correct black endpieces are present with undamaged lettering. Scuffing on the clear plastic can likely be removed with plastic polish that is used to restore modern car headlights. What variation is the car? The unpanted version is worth about $50 with load, the painted version is worth $225 with load. MY "data base from experts" was that KleerPaks are worth $150. To be worth $365 the car would have to be the painted variation if my $150 for a KleerPak is right. It the Car is unpainted then the KleerPak has to be $300. Maybe they have escalated a lot since I last checked on their value.


----------



## AFGP9

I did read somewhere the those KleerPacs are worth $150 in pristine condition. This one did have both the correct ends. I have used the headlight polish on clear plastic countless times and it works well. As to whether or not the Bethlehem gondola was painted or not, I would have to go back and check. I don't recall if the seller even mentioned it or not. 
Good to know about the Fairgrounds. Something less to wonder about. Still will call ahead about the Kane County show. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Here is the 989 I got in the mail today. Super nice. No nicks or scratches.
Seller is Den Cannon TCA 73-5977 From Delaware
He sent me one of his business cards.
Gilbert Toys & American Flyer
Bought, Sold, Traded, and Repaired

My pic loading is not working. I will add pics latter tonight.


----------



## AmFlyer

While we are waiting to see Mopac’s new 989 here is a layout picture I just posted in the Plasticville thread. Not sure if all the S gaugers will see it over there.


----------



## mopac

That is really cool.

My pics load to 2 or 3 % then cancel out. Should work tonght.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I wonder if there are some Cryptominers or mass spammers that are using computers in your neighborhood to continually upload Terabytes of data..It is strange you can only upload pictures in the evening or night. It is not any limitation on the MTF site.


----------



## mopac

Maybe Tom. Your pics load fine. My internet has been slightly slower lately. Not just this site.
I do use WiFi here but signal strength is strong. I use the paper clip. I know there are other ways but I don't know them.


----------



## AmFlyer

My pictures load fine every time. I use the paper clip. It sounds to me like your ISP has inadequate installed capacity for the internet traffic in your neighborhood. Some ISP's (like mine) have multiple tiers of service. If I do not pay for the highest tier then their system deprioritizes large file transfers. When we started streaming 4k movies we had to upgrade to the top tier to prevent the picture stream from "spooling."
As part of the service upgrade Cox Cable agreed to pull a new RG-11 feeder to our house from their distribution box. This made a big difference as well. I then installed special Belden Studio grade, all copper, RG-6 from the service drop to the modem and Video hubs. All that said,I think your ISP is the problem.


----------



## mopac

I just tried a speed test. .shut off like my pics do. Said ERROR
Firewall possible bloclking.
I shut off my windows firewall, but no pics.
I have done speed tests in the past and they worked fine But not now.
I did a wndows update a while back.
I turned my firewall back on. No dfference.


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## mopac

I will call Charter monday and *****.


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## Mikeh49

Charter - have fun!


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## AmFlyer

I post most of my pics from an iPad but sometimes I post from my PC. It is running Windows 10 with all the firewall settings at most aggressive, one step up from the default settings. I can post fine with the PC so I doubt it is your computer or Windows 10. How old is your modem? I replaced mine about a year ago. I also buy my own modem and routers because the standard combined devices from Cox Cable have an open channel that allows others to use the wireless w/o me knowing to supposedly form a neighborhood mesh network. I wanted no part of that.


----------



## mopac

I have had Charter (Spectrum) for years and has been great.
I just did a spectrum speed test and it was DownLoad 5.1 MBPS
UpLoad was O MBPS
Houston, we have a problem. I will call them monday. They have always tried to help me.

I will check the speed again after 10:00


----------



## mopac

I use the Spectrum modem with my own WiFi. router.. It should be secure. Password protected.
If my pics upload tonight I will redo the speed test. I use windows 10 on a dell laptop.
My modem is less than a year old. Got a new one this year from spectrum.
This problem with pic loading has happened since the forum change. The new forum
worked fine for awhile. I may have bad cable from road to house. Spectrum will check it out.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom that's a nice Plasticville collection you have there. One thing puzzles me. I see light snow on your streets and was wondering where you were that you wanted snow on your layout. Had to be somewhere back east of SoCal. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I will call Charter monday and ***.


 Mopac, I'm beginning to thing that the part of Missouri you live in is the black hole of the country. You got steel gnawing squirrels, it takes weeks to get your USPS deliveries, and now picture up load problems not to mention a hill behind you with critters running around. What's next, Sasquatch? 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I have not seen Sasquatch but my next door neighbor did. I think they took him away after that. I have not seen him in years. Oh, and the guy said a flying saucer landed in my back yard.

Pics are not loading so I have a problem.

Spectrum will be here to see what is gong on Tues. at 12:00.
They offered to come out today at 4:00, but I will not be home then.
I have 0 up load speed according to a test I did. That would explain alot.
I would bet they need to replace the cable from street to house.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, you must mean a childhood Christmas like this. I am from Pittsburgh, also lived in Chicago for 12 years.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, while I am an EE, I am not a cable systems person. It does seem the cable is working with the 5.1MBPS download speed. A zero upload speed sounds like a modem issue or an account setting issue.The modem and router seem to be talking to each other just fine. When my incoming cable started to fail I was getting constant pixelization in the TV pictures even with a cable amplifier. There was about 25db of signal loss in that old cable and the bandwidth was poor, around half of the new cable.


----------



## mopac

I agree Tom. my TV is working fine. Seems my speed test used to be around 20 for down load.
The 0 upload I am getting now is not right. I have rebooted my modem twice , and WiFi twice.The lights on both seem right. I want Spectrum to run a speed test and signal strength test where cable comes into the house. Spectrum installed an amplifier in the house to boost signal. The light on the amplifier is on. My spectrum modem was replaced earlier this year. WiFi is about 5 years old. I can view the internet
but not do much on it. I lost an auction this week because my bid took too long to go in. I just don't know what else to do right now. We will see what the repairman says after running some signal tests. My signal strength has always been on the below normal side, hence the amplifier. I am at the end of the line on the street. I normally have enough signal strength to do what I want on the internet. You have seen me post pics on the forum. There is a problem. We will get it fixed. LOL, just not today. I have taken pics of the 989, just can not post them. I took 4 pics yesterday, 3 of the 989, and one of the trees to show how they have turned color. The green is about gone. I had to laugh the other day at the weatherman. He predicted lowerthan normal snow fall this winter. We have hardly had any snow for last 4 years. Kids around here do notget sleds for Christmas. 30 years ago that was not true. We used to get lots of snow here. No snow is finem with me. Its pretty, but go away in a day. I am not fond of winter in Missouri. It gets so brown and always
dreary skies.


----------



## AmFlyer

The cable company should be able to fix it. It is also interesting and puzzling you can upload text but not pictures. That is why I wonder if there is an account setting issue at the cable company.
For many years I had an amplifier installed by Cox Cable at the cable entrance in my house. I was able to eliminate it after all the improvements were made. Replacing the incoming cable with new RG-11 was worth 20db. The house was originally wired with RG-59. That was abandoned and new studio quality RG-6 was run through the house, that was worth about 5db. Finally I hired an experienced technician to look at all the terminations. What he discovered was the Cox Cable installer did not properly strip and install the F connectors. Almost every connector measured a 5db loss. With two on each run of cable that was 10db's of signal loss just from the connectors. I could not tell this by looking at them. He cut all the F connectors off and correctly installed new ones. Now the loss was only about 1db per connector. Just this basic work improved the signal by almost 35db at the end device, way more than the amp was doing.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I remembered you being from Pittsburg and your years in Chicago. That was what my comment was meant to refer to, especially your Wheaton years. That picture you just posted, while pretty, is just a reminder of things to come around here. That picture actually looks cold!! 

Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

From my 1955 5510T Christmas train set. Plastic tender and boiler. I replaced the wires and added the markers to the tender.










Doug


----------



## AFGP9

Good idea.

Kenny


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## mopac

Got my internet fixed. Turns out needed the amplifier replaced. The amp had gone bad
and was backing up in the cable. Repairman replaced some connectors that were old type.
Got my 6 car lot while he was here. I will post a couple more pics of the 989 and then later my 6 car lot. $1.25 plus shipping for the 6 car lot. I like to post pics so glad it is fixed.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice car! And a daytime picture post. All must be well at Mopac's place.


----------



## mopac

Doug, I have a 282 I got used in 1955. My uncle got tired of it and gave it to me.
She runs like new. It ran poorly for years and it turned out to be a bad armature.


----------



## mopac

Tom, all is well, and cable guy is gone. He told me all the cable insde the house is RG6, I guess that is good.


----------



## AF-Doc'

A very good looking Reefer. Great lighting too. Thank you.


----------



## AF-Doc'

An action car at work.










Got Milk ??
Doug


----------



## mopac

Great pic. Very nice. I got an action car in the mail today. A 734. I will get a pic in a bit.
Waiting for sun to come around.


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## AmFlyer

Good picture of the milk car. Impossible to tell the track in the foreground is HO.
Mopac, RG-6 is what you want in the house. Still very little color on the trees.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac great looking 989! Picture taken outside on the wall, you got your other cars, and your cable is fixed!! Great day in Al's life!!! 

Doug, nice milk car you have there. I like the lighting affect inside the car. 

Kenny


----------



## AF-Doc'

I can't claim the lighting in the 973 milk car it came that way. I think the later version " 25019 " was not lighted although its a simple addition to the left end of the chassis. Thanks for the smiles.


----------



## AF-Doc'

Ooops, can't find right or left of most anything. The lighting is in the left end of the 973 chassis.


----------



## AF-Doc'

Ok, now this is not funny Doug, The lighting is in the RIGHT end of the 973 chassis. Dang got up to early.


----------



## mopac

Guys, I am back. LOL, you did not know I was gone. About 2 hours after cable repairman left I could not get on the internet. I checked everything. I could not connect to the router. I suspect the router had gone bad. So to Best Buy I went this morning. Bought a new WiFi router and I am back on. So maybe it was my old router.
4 years old, maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I loose track of years. Setup is not complete but t is working. Yesterday I promised pics of my new to me 6 cars. Lets see if this works.

These cars are from Trainz. Not my favorite seller but I like these.
First is a custom. Someone painted a 940 black and put some Jersey Central
decals on it. Next is a 734 action car. I do not have an activation track so I have
no idea if it works. Seems to have all the guts in it. Should it have metal wheels?
Car looks to be very good condition. They all need a bath. 734 converted to knuckles.












Next is a 24030 MKT car unpainted. A 956 flat car with trailer brackets. Nice car.











Last but not least is a very nice 625 Gulf tanker. And a 630 caboose. Some idiot sawed the 2 rear steps off.
I have plenty of 630 cabooses. The 630 is a transition car.

Any who, not bad cars for 1.25 plus a bit too high shipping. Still works out to 6 cars for under 4.00 each including shipping.
All the trucks are worth something.

Thanks for looking.


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## AmFlyer

The 734 should have two metal pickup wheels and a sliding pickup shoe.


----------



## AF-Doc'

mopac said:


> I do not have an activation track so I have
> no idea if it works. Seems to have all the guts in it. Should it have metal wheels?


 Here is what mine 734 looks like. A pare of metal wheels and a track trip finger on the other end. I might have a spare track trip but not the buttons. Nice rolling stock.


















Congrats on getting wired again.


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## mopac

I forgot to say the pics loaded very quickly. Faster than ever.


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## mopac

Thanks for the pics Doug. I have the lever through the truck but all wheels are plastic. So it does not work.
Car is very heavy so maybe I will gut the innards.
I really like the car.


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## AmFlyer

Doug, in addition yours has the long 3 spring trucks like Mopac's new 625G has . That makes it a 1952 or 1953 production.


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## AF-Doc'

I have this as a spare from an eBay purchase. It need the pull string from the loader man's hand to the flip up gate at the end of the slide, maybe a replacement load man as well. It has the loads and track trip but no button. I just powered it up and the coil cycles the loader man good. I have additional metal pickup wheels for 734 as well. Yours if you need them.


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Doug, in addition yours has the long 3 spring trucks like Mopac's new 625G has . That makes it a 1952 or 1953 production.


I'm not sure of the year, It's brown painted black shell with one type 1 or A truck and the other truck is type 4 or D. I needs a two piece brake wheel as well. 
A caution when opening the car, slide the right hand door open about half way. Then press down the door leaver arm just enough to drop it down below the hole in the door. Open the door out of the way. Drop the frame rivets and watch the leaver arm as you remove the chassis. Sorry I get excited with new stuff. 










Fun to come.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, good buy for those cars. They all look good. Why not just buy the correct wheels for the 734? Someday you might wish you had kept it original. Is it an unpainted red or painted? I saw a seller on eBay selling the correct piggy back trailers for your Monon flat car. I didn't look at the price. Saw it last night. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Doug I have a 770 loader stuck away somewhere. It too needed the string. I got the exact same thing from a fabric store. The only thing is, the loader man is handicapped since he is missing his arm. The other thing the loader needs is a complete paint job and the correct button. I do have all the cubes. I only paid $8 for it at a train show. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Two buttons are needed, one for the 770 and one for the 734. Both are just single pole push buttons so anything, like an uncoupler button, will work until the correctly lettered button can be found.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today I was in my office sitting at my desk. I rarely leave the house, the risk of infection out here is high, at least in my opinion. One of the things I can see out my office window from my desk is the Ritz Carlton Hotel. I thought why not, so I went there for lunch and took this picture from the table in the restaurant. It’s 80 deg at the beach today.
In return for me posting that irrelevant picture I also posted an overall view of my layout taken from the entrance vestibule to the room. I have never previously posted a picture from this vantage point.


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## mopac

Your layout looks fantastic. And of coarse the lunch photo is awesome.

On my new router. It is not letting me go to some sites. MTF is fine, but ebay and
my bank are refusing access. Getting an ERR error. Any ideas. Probably a 
firewall setting.


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## AmFlyer

The first thing that comes to mind is the router's encryption selection. Since it is new it should offer WPA3, if it does use it. If not make sure the router security is set to WPA-2-PSK AES. Banking sites are very particular about these settings.


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## AFGP9

Thanks Tom for the overview shot of your outstanding layout. On the other hand, since it is supposed to be in the high 30's tomorrow morning with a daytime high of 58 and down more from there, I don't need to hear "it is 80 degrees at the beach today". Then you gotta add insult to injury with a beautiful beach shot?? As some presidential candidate said, "come on man". 

Kenny


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## mopac

You are correct Kenny. I think he meant to rub it in.

Tom, all is working great .I only had the router partly loaded. I called tech support for the router and a very nice lady walked me through the rest of loading. Everything fine now. All sites work, including my bank.


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## AFGP9

Great news mopac!! Now you are fully functionable? I think Tom's intent was to rub it into us poor winter bound folks. What's even worse is he spent a few years in Chicago so he knows what's coming for us. Then again, look where he went off to and look who is still here going to be "enjoying" the snowy, cold temperatures. I got a nice view out of my dining room windows. An empty cornfield waiting to be turned into a nice snow "beach". 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Ok, no more beach pictures. That was more about I left the house for the first time in a month to go somewhere other than the Post Office. I spent 27 years in Pittsburgh, 12 years in Chicago and 2 years in DC so I know about winter. Also spent 2 years in upstate South Carolina. During those two years we had one snowfall and two nasty ice storms. I had no appreciation of how serious an ice storm was until I experienced one. That said, living there was not really having a winter when three days after the ice storm the high temp is 70deg.
Mopac, I am pleased to hear it is working now. I am impressed you got it done. When I upgrade routers I have my son do the install and setup, he is sort of in that business.


----------



## mopac

Trying a test pic. WOW!! The pic loaded in less than 2 seconds. Never was that fast.
My other router was nothing to load, this new one is very involved. Its still a low end router
compared to others I saw at Best Buy. Some was 500.00. This one was 100.00 and on sale for 80.00.
I like it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Great Mopac, now you are back in the picture posting business. Plus you can connect to your bank to pay the bills. At $500 it sounds like you were looking at the Netgear with the 4 antenna array. That ony makes sense if the home has a large active device load and the house is large enough that one can replace two or three lesser routers.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, great engine to use as a test of picture posting. Sounds like you did indeed get the right router. 

Tom I got the fact that was a rare out of the house excursion and that was your main point. Sorry I just couldn't resist the the winter comments knowing full well you are aware of what winter can be. I remember when I lived in Phoenix in the late 80's to early 90's and would see the weather forecast for Illinois and being glad I wasn't there. Especially in '98 or '99, don't remember which, when it was 20-26 below for 5 days straight plus the snow that had already fallen and of course the ever present wind. Now here I am back here and still don't look forward to what's coming. An age thing for me. The older I get, the colder it is or so it seems. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Very cool guys like all your stuff still working on my new layout . this has nothing to do with trains but this is my other hobby i enjoy doing it a xmass gift for my great niece getting old. Here is a pic . made out of cherry wood


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I don't like the cold anymore either. Goes right through me. When I was young I actually liked the cold.
I also used to wonder why old folks moved to Florida. I know now. I grew up in Texas and a cold spell was
upper 40s. I lived in Houston for about 15 years. Never saw a snowflake. 2 weeks after I left Texas, Houston got 
3 inches of snow. Shut them down for a week. No snow shovels or snow plows in Houston.

Tom, without tech support I never could have loaded this router. The router did not come with a manual. They
wanted you to use a smart phone and go to Google Play and download an app. I went there on my phone and I
could not find the app. I do not use my phone for the internet very often. Mainly to get the 40% off coupon for
Hobby Lobby. Phone screens are to small and condensed for me. It took almost an hour with tech support and we
were moving right along. Nothing should be that hard. I think the new amplifier finished off my old router. My old
router had about a dozen lights across the front that randomly blinked. When the internet went out only the first 6 lights were on so I figured the router had died.


----------



## mopac

Al, that is a very nice rocking horse. Good job.


----------



## AF-Doc'

What a perfect beach, looks so nice and warm...Inviting. A great looking layout from a great vantage point. Very Nice indeed. A great looking test picture am glad all is working again. Nice rocker as well you can see a wood workers love done in cherry. Thanks for the pictures.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, no way I would download an app to set up a router. All the manuals are online at the manufacturers website. My cell phone has a personal hotspot option, I think it is included in the base service fee with Verizon. I should be listed under Settings. I use that for internet connections with my computer and iPad. It works the same as the home wireless when the wireless is not available. Pre-covid, when I was traveling two to three times/month I used the phone hotspot a lot. 
You did it the easiest way, having customer support walk you through the setup.


----------



## AmFlyer

Doug, I like the way you built and detailed the S gauge track system. It would be a shame and a lot of work to replace it with flex track. Maybe there is some minor detail item about the 336 that causes the derailments. I vaguely recall a discussion from a decade ago that identified the gauge of the rails on the K-Line 27"R track was very slightly narrow. If the metal tires were not tight and straight on the plastic insulators or the pilot truck was out of gauge engines would derail, but not all the time.


----------



## AF-Doc'

Tom, thank you they are great thoughts, When I get my current 322 chassis re-bushed I'm going to put the 336 back on the bench and review in detail the items you commented on. I think that I might have shot my self in the foot with the track as there are several locations that there is a right curve piece followed by a left curve piece with nothing between them. I had a turnout with a derailment problem because I followed it directly with a curve piece. When I added a straight section to the turnout then the curve the derailments stopped.

I just looked at the area on the elevated rails where the 336 de-rails most every time through here. I noticed the location where I soldered the power drops. I wonder if I need to move the connections to the outside of the rails not the inside?


----------



## AmFlyer

That is likely the problem. The power leads should always be soldered to the underside or the outside of the rails, never the inside. It might be possible to grind down the top of the solder joint to salvage those connections. Only .140" clearance from the rail head is needed to clear any flange.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today I have pictures of two less common accessories. First is the No.23 bag of Artificial Coal. I imagine most of you have seen one of these at a train show but they have become more scarce. Next is the DPDT switch that was sold as part of the 698 Reverse Loop Kit. The 698 Kit was first cataloged and sold in 1950 after Gilbert adopted the new style button. Nonetheless these switches were all made using the old style button assembly. These are rarely seen at train shows unless one digs through the scrap boxes under the tables. Many vendors had some but did not realize what they were.


----------



## mopac

Doug, nice looking Northern. I really like them. I have 4 of them. I even bought some K-Line
wide curve track for them.


----------



## mopac

Tom, cool bag of coal. It looks nice.


----------



## AmFlyer

If anyone thinks I should get coal for Christmas I prefer it be in those little bags.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I don't like the cold anymore either. Goes right through me. When I was young I actually liked the cold.
> I also used to wonder why old folks moved to Florida. I know now. I grew up in Texas and a cold spell was
> upper 40s. I lived in Houston for about 15 years. Never saw a snowflake. 2 weeks after I left Texas, Houston got
> 3 inches of snow. Shut them down for a week. No snow shovels or snow plows in Houston.
> 
> Tom, without tech support I never could have loaded this router. The router did not come with a manual. They
> wanted you to use a smart phone and go to Google Play and download an app. I went there on my phone and I
> could not find the app. I do not use my phone for the internet very often. Mainly to get the 40% off coupon for
> Hobby Lobby. Phone screens are to small and condensed for me. It took almost an hour with tech support and we
> were moving right along. Nothing should be that hard. I think the new amplifier finished off my old router. My old
> router had about a dozen lights across the front that randomly blinked. When the internet went out only the first 6 lights were on so I figured the router had died.


Mopac, funny how I used to not mind the cold either. In fact when I was in construction I worked in it to a certain temperature then the winter would shut everything down. Let me tell you, climbing around on steel beams is COLD I don't care how you dress. Sometime during one winter layoff I decided there had to be a better way to make a living so luckily for me I had enough car knowledge to get into a GM dealership and the parts dept. Still had to go in and out of the cold but no big deal. Now days it is a big deal!! I won't tell you about my short time living in Arizona and being free of the cold all of the time then moving back here.

Your recounting of your internet and router issues makes my head ache just thinking about it.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Doug, I think you should leave your track the way you got it. Looks too good to tear out. Fix your wiring/derailment problem and call it done. Tom said most of what I was going to say. I will add a thought though. I have always soldered a flat spade connector with a pigtail soldered to it, to the bottom of the track in between where the track is split with the pig tail going through a drilled hole down to the buss wire every 18". Never have a problem. Plus no wiring is visible. Never considered putting anything inside the rails. To me that was a sure way for derailment. 

Tom I will have to keep an eye out if and when I ever get to another train show for those control buttons. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I worked at a Ford dealership for almost 30 years. I was in the sales end of it. My last 10 years I was the sales manager. I really liked that job. Too many hours though. I opened the joint in the morning and closed it in the evening. 14 hour days were normal. All mostly at the same dealership. Unusual in the sales end. Lots of pressure from ford and the dealership owner. Never enough sales. I found out stress is bad for the body. After 2 heart attacks it was time for a change. I have not had a heart attack since I left the dealership. I was in the hospital at least a week each time. So after many stents and some rest I am fine.


----------



## alaft61ri

I to think the wire r the problem. Good luck nice layout.


----------



## AF-Doc'

Thanks for the tips and tricks regarding the wiring. The simple things get overlooked sometimes. I have made that same mistake in several of the drops. I like the flat spade connector idea simple and visually effective, nice. Tom I looked to see about grinding to the 0.140" clearance but with everything being said here I think I'll just redo it and make it correct.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I worked at a Ford dealership for almost 30 years. I was in the sales end of it. My last 10 years I was the sales manager. I really liked that job. Too many hours though. I opened the joint in the morning and closed it in the evening. 14 hour days were normal. All mostly at the same dealership. Unusual in the sales end. Lots of pressure from ford and the dealership owner. Never enough sales. I found out stress is bad for the body. After 2 heart attacks it was time for a change. I have not had a heart attack since I left the dealership. I was in the hospital at least a week each time. So after many stents and some rest I am fine.


Having worked in the GM parts dept. for 30 years and 28 of them as Parts mgr., I know all about the pressure of selling more and more never being enough. I never realized pressure and stress until I retired from the business. Never felt better. The sales department was the last place I would have worked. Each Monday morning managers meeting was always an exercise in keeping your cool when the owner or General Manager would berate every Dept. manager but mostly sales. I don't know how you Sales Managers stood it. With the hours you and they put in, it's no wonder heart attacks occurred. 12 hours days were required. I also sat in on most every salesman's meeting. Those poor people. Having to give a monthly estimate of how many sales they would make then every week get grilled on why they weren't on track to make that quota. No thanks. I will never understand why anybody would want that job although I still know several still doing it. I know the pay can be great but I don't see how that can off set the pressure to produce. I worked at 3 different dealerships. All the same. 15, 10, and 5 years at the last one when I finally realized enough was enough. Retirement looked pretty good. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

LOL, Kenny, I try and not look back at what I put up with. Takes a special kind of idiot to do the sales thing.
Yes it was a big relief when I walked away. Most of the sales managers I had when I was young died before their time.
I did make good money. Hard to give up when you know nothing else. There was perks. Tickets to almost all motor sports events. Nascar races, monster truck shows (my sons loved these), and trips all over this country. I got to meet many St Louis celebrities, mainly sport figures. Ozzie Smith, Lou Brock all bought cars from me. Kurt Warner, MVP of a super bowl,
got his MVP gift expedition from me.
Retirement is good. My dad had a hard time adjusting to retirement, not me. I was good day one.


----------



## AmFlyer

You guys who worked in B to C sales were special people. It was hard work, long hours and aggressive managers working in a do or die small business. I knew upfront I wanted to work in a large B to B corporation. A lot more travel and relocation but much less stress.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today I thought I would post another lunch picture for all of you. These two guys at the lunch counter have no Pacific Ocean views but there is a clean UP SD70ACe on the siding to look at.
Also two pictures of a PRR Y-3 stopped at a crossing. This is the Legacy smoke at idle feature. A rebuild shop on the right serving the freight and engine facilities.


----------



## AF-Doc'

I'm with the guys at the lunch stand. Noooooooooooooooo stress there. Just amazing photographs Tom, very well done. Thank you.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Doug.


----------



## AF-Doc'

This 1946 633 B&O boxcar just arrived. Not in great shape with warped doors and a little paint issue on the ladder. I just had to have one to match up with the 633 B&O reefer. I found a clean 980 B&O as well it should be here in a few days.


----------



## AmFlyer

I think that 633 is among the best 1946's I have seen. The white stampings are strong, the black highlights on the ladder and grab rails are good and there is almost no roof warpage. Minimal wear or chipping of the tuscan paint. The dies used to stamp the truck sideframes were almost new when these were made. It is hard to find a 1946 better than this one. Smart purchase.


----------



## alaft61ri




----------



## AF-Doc'

Thanks Tom,
The 633 reefer has the stampings offset to the rivet lines. I think the two will look nice in a box car train. Maybe being pulled by the 322 that's in for a bearing re-build.


----------



## mopac

Tom, those are great pics. The UP locomotive and the PRR steamer look great. The 2 guys standing outside the facility
are on break and getting some fresh air. Or they are looking for someone to mug.

Doug. Congrats on a pretty good 633. Nice lettering.
And the red 633 is nice. I don't think I have a 633.


----------



## AmFlyer

Doug, you will have to put the original link couplers back on that 633 reefer to run it with the tuscan 633 and a 322 engine.
Those two guys just finished unloading the PRR truck that is leaving. They are watching the Y-3 at the moment, no hurry to go back inside.


----------



## AFGP9

I gotta say those two guys look like they are about to fall asleep. At least the one with his arms down does. True contentment and great looking scene. Great pictures of all the locomotives too. 
I've got 2 633's, one red and one tuscan but never actually examined them. I Think I know where they are stored so now I'll have to dig them out. Also have a red 933. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks Doug.


Tom since I contacted CTT regarding the KleerPac's and Roger Carp answered, he and I have corresponded a bit. I mentioned that I was encouraged by CTT's increased Gilbert American Flyer articles. He asked me for pictures of my layout. I don't think I am magazine worthy. He said that is a what everybody says. Even so he still wants pictures. The first person I thought of was you because of your train variety and never ending knowledge. Don't worry, I didn't mention your name. Then you posted the pictures of your layout. Of course anybody else here on the forum is welcome to participate as well. Roger Carp just wants more AF articles. I don't mean to slight anybody on this forum since I know there are several knowledgeable people here. My intent of this post is to alert all Gilbert American Flyer collectors/runners that CTT wants more on our trains and is willing to publish more articles. 

Kenny


----------



## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Doug, you will have to put the original link couplers back on that 633 reefer to run it with the tuscan 633 and a 322 engine.


The link couplers I have for sure, just have to wait for the bearing parts for the 322m.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I have been reading the posts in that thread. My layout is accessible online at the NASG website. At this time I do not plan to publicize it any further than the postings I do here on the MTF site.


----------



## AmFlyer

Doug, back to that 633 reefer. That car is not a boxcar body with reefer doors, it is a reefer body. The reefer has 4 panels between the rivet rows, boxcars have 5. There is one more vertical row of rivets on the boxcars. This affects the alignment of the stamps relative to the rivets as the car is decorated on the line in the factory. Those cars are hard to find and yours is near perfect.


----------



## mopac

Got my new Lionel 6-48273 from 2009. Car # 24417 Northwestern reefer. Came in the mail yesterday.
Very nice. Never removed from box. It has been now. I like it. 
Here is a pic of it and then a pic of it with the Gilbert #989 Northwestern reefer I got a week or two ago.
The yellows are different but will look great running together. The shells were not made from the same mold.


----------



## AmFlyer

Two great cars! Both the yellow and green are different, I did not realize how much different until you posted the side by side picture. The body of the 48273 is different because it is a boxcar body with reefer doors. Lionel never updated the reefer tooling, all the new Lionel reefers are made like this.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the info. I thought it would be cool to have them side by side. Both the cars are out of my league. I do not pay that much for Lionel cars nor Gilbert cars. But I do like them. 10.00 is more my style for Gilbert cars and 20.00 for new Lionel cars. There was another 6-48273 on ebay when I bought mine. It was suppose to be new but had a scratch on the roof and no box. With shipping it went for more than I paid. My shipping was free.
So I guess I did ok.


----------



## AmFlyer

I need to defend the work ethic of my loyal railroad empire employees. They are entitled to breaks under wage and hour laws, not to mention union agreements. This time I photographed a car in front of the warehouse/yardmaster office on the north side of the yard. This guy is working hard taking boxes from the warehouse to a NYC stakebed truck hidden behind the reefer.
The 48824 PFE reefer was cataloged in 2011. Like Mopac’s NWL reefer it uses the boxcar body. The deep orange and brown colors with two decals makes it stand out on the layout.


----------



## mopac

I really like the orange and brown. Pacific Fruit Express cars are cool. I have a bunch in HO.
Thanks for showing. I have one train I call "the salad bowl express". There is a reefer train that runs from California to New York named that. Its still running. The train pretty much has
the right of way all the way through.

Tom, TrainWorld.com is having an S gauge SALE. Engines and rolling stock.
They have some cool steamers for 299.00. I think they are flyer chiefs. I guess they
will run conventional. I might get #1225. Which should be a Berkshire.


----------



## AmFlyer

You know I post these pictures so you will not run out of cars to search for on eBay. Gilbert made a number of colorful reefers but never a PFE. It was a good choice by Lionel.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice cars mopac. Really like the end to end pose. Really shows the difference. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

I've always liked those PFE cars. Nice looking Tom. 
I have taken the plunge and bought my first eBay non-Gilbert car. I have a new MTH Santa Fe, "The Route of El Capitan #25090 40' Woodsided Reefer coming. The MTH box number is 35-78013 but the car has 25090 on it. Also from the same seller a new 1996 Lionel American Flyer Ann Arbor Railroad System 3 bay hopper. Not knowing the pricing of MTH, I just dove in and bought it. $42.50 plus $12.40 combined east coast shipping with the $27.50 Ann Arbor car. I don't care if I over paid for the MTH or not. It is what it is. Will post photos when I get them. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Retail on the MTH 35-78013 was $60 so anything at $50 or less would be a good price. I hope you have not made a mistake purchasing an MTH car. When you see how well the couplers work and how free rolling they are you will want an entire train of them.


----------



## AmFlyer

For info Des Plaines Hobbies has a good inventory of SHS/MTH cars plus AM cars. Get on their email list so you get notification of their twice/year 25% off sales. That is how I have been getting mine.


----------



## Mikeh49

Here is another Lionel Flyer PFE reefer, 6-48808. Note the silver roof and ends compared to Tom's brown. I noticed the box car roof but figured it sort of made sense as the car is marked as a mechanical refrigerator. I'm disappointed that Lionel did not use the AF reefer molds with the roof ice hatches. I like PFE, but really like Great Northern Western Fruit Express as I used to see these coming through my small town in Minnesota as I stared out the grade school window. Now I live at the other end of the WFE line in Wenatchee, WA. Maybe when the price of the new Lionel woodside reefers goes down a bit.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice car. These PFE cars were popular when Lionel released them partly because PFE reefers were made by Gilbert in HO but Gilbert never made one in S.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Retail on the MTH 35-78013 was $60 so anything at $50 or less would be a good price. I hope you have not made a mistake purchasing an MTH car. When you see how well the couplers work and how free rolling they are you will want an entire train of them.


So in other words, by buying this MTH 35-78013 I have doomed myself to keep on buying them do to the reasons you stated? Too late for me then. It's coming. The same seller has offered a 
35-78021 Union Soo Lines 40' Woodsided Reefer at $45.50, down from $49.50. Wondering about price + 12.40 shipping which then becomes 57.90.


----------



## AmFlyer

I recommend you hold off until you get the one you bought and make sure you like the old style woodside reefers unless he combines the shipping so you get the second w/o shipping. I have two woodside reefers and while they are nice cars they will never be my favorites. The MTH/SHS and the AM cars are very similar. I have about 30 of them, enough for two complete trains.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I recommend you hold off until you get the one you bought and make sure you like the old style woodside reefers unless he combines the shipping so you get the second w/o shipping. I have two woodside reefers and while they are nice cars they will never be my favorites. The MTH/SHS and the AM cars are very similar. I have about 30 of them, enough for two complete trains.


Tom this Soo car would be a separate purchase since the Santa Fe and the Ann Arbor cars are already shipped. I just saw the Soo car last night and tonight the seller has offered a 5.00 discount. This Soo car will be a separate purchase and shipping charge if I decide to buy it. I had already decided to wait to see the Santa Fe car before proceeding as you mentioned. 

Speaking of cars, there is a KleerPac 24574 USAF Rocket Fuel Transport Car on eBay right now which has had 15 bidders and has 5 days to go with a current high bid of 167.50. Just sayin'


----------



## AmFlyer

Try to bid $300 and see what happens. It is worth more than that if in excellent condition with a complete KleerPak. If it takes your bid someone will overbid you at the end. In the unlikely event you get it you got a good buy.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are pictures of my Union reefers. I bought two because they were made with two different road numbers.


----------



## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Doug, back to that 633 reefer. That car is not a boxcar body with reefer doors, it is a reefer body. The reefer has 4 panels between the rivet rows, boxcars have 5. There is one more vertical row of rivets on the boxcars. This affects the alignment of the stamps relative to the rivets as the car is decorated on the line in the factory. Those cars are hard to find and yours is near perfect.


Thanks Tom for the additional information on the 633 reefer, good stuff. I had read some time ago in a Greenberg publication about the 633 reefer and that it was rare. I found that one on eBay in a train set with a 21160 steamer, I was lucky. I am always reading everything I can find on A.C. Gilbert and the flyers for those notes on what was a prototype or a production error car, like the first Gulf tank car. I find the interviews with Maury Romer most delightful and informative. It was from an interview with him that I went on a quest for the Celanese Chemical car. I was rewarded with one recently although I do believe is a reproduction and if it is it is a perfect match. I do try to find those cars or reproduce them as I love those in my collection.


----------



## AF-Doc'

The 27017 and 81 look great, I love the color scheme and details, Thanks for the share.


----------



## AmFlyer

There were a few Celanese Chemical car reproductions made decades ago. More recently Lionel cataloged and made the Celanese car. It is 48406 in the 1996 catalog. They can be found for sale. I bet Mopac can have you one within days like he did for me finding a NIB PRR TOFC.


----------



## AmFlyer

It turns out I also have a wood sided boxcar. It is in simple PRR livery, the car is nicely detailed with many separately applied parts. I have no others since I model PRR mainline activities in Western Pa. There were very few of these cars in mainline revenue service in the mid ‘50’s.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom the picture of your 27017 and 27081 Erie reefers looks the same as the one I can get except it is 50027 from the Soo line. Same Union Refrigerator Transit Lines printing also. I honestly like the look. I'll still wait to see the Santa Fe that I already have coming. 

Kenny


----------



## AF-Doc'

Tom, I did find a Celanese recently although it is not a 48406 from Lionel, I feel sure its a reproduction. I also found this 637 car that might might have been worth acquiring but the price was above 1680.00 dollars. I was never able to find any information regarding this 637 in my library.










Also this T&P 631 was mentioned here and this one sold on eBay for above 180.00, both cars look nice.










I need to sell my boat.


----------



## AmFlyer

The problem with a lot of repros made early in the collecting era is they were not properly marked per TCA rules. If you see what appears to be an original 910 Celanese car it probably is not. Less than 12 were made and fewer than that still exist today.
I have never seen or heard of that 637. The car looks original, the doors could be factory or could have been changed. I would not spend more than $100 to get it even if I wanted it. The rarest documented 637 is one made with a reefer body. If one of those came up for sale that would be in 4 figures.
Kenny, I have not seen the Soo Line version. Post a picture when you get it.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I will certainly post pictures when that and the Ann Arbor hopper get here.


----------



## AF-Doc'

Tom, Again great information thank you. Regarding the Celanese car I thought I was just getting a good reproduction and it was not numbered and so far I cannot find any other marking. How should it be marked by TCA rules? It has a type 3 frame with sintered-iron truck frames and the knuckle coupler that have the stud hole in it like for the diesels. It is painted on a gray plastic shell. You just don't know what's what's and need to reference deeply. Do you have a reference book you favor or could recommend. 

Here is the Celanese car,









Thanks again.


----------



## AmFlyer

That sure is a great looking car. The Lionel version is the split tank design, the solid tank here looks much better. That is clearly a custom painted car. The marking requirements are on the TCA website. On a car like this a visible "R" under the chassis would be adequate. I am actually nor sure how the rules apply to this car since the markings are different than on the 910 and it does not have the number 910 on it.


----------



## AF-Doc'

All the pictures I've seen even the black and white ones in the Heritage Book of this car all have the same markings as this one and I agree they don't have the 910. It's only on the Gilbert Chemical car. With all that said it's still a nice looking can and I will add the permanent "R" stamping to it's chassis.


----------



## AmFlyer

I was thinking the Build Date was missing but I see that is not on the original Celanese sample car either.


----------



## AFGP9

I just ran across a 910 on eBay that has "Gilbert Chemicals" in place of "Celanese". Seller said it was due to a licensing issue. He still wants 229.99. It has a die-cast frame and closed tank. It has "BLT 53" on it. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

All but one of the 910 cars are Gilbert Chemicals. At least one other car has been photographed with Celanese faintly visible under the paint. Those two cars and any more of the factory samples that may show up are worth well into 4 figures. All the other Gilbert Chemical 910's are worth about $200 in E condition, no OB. If anyone wants one just buy the Lionel remake of the 910, its a lot cheaper.


----------



## AF-Doc'

Several years I found a 910 and 912 Koppers on eBay for a buy now for less than 80.


----------



## AmFlyer

Good prices.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is an interesting S gauge reefer made by Lionel in 2013. It is the 41002 Western Refrigerator Line Company, commonly referred to as a Green Bay & Western. This car was made by Gilbert in HO beginning in 1957. That car has the correct reefer body and dual hinged doors, not a sliding door.
To the disappointment of S gaugers Gilbert never made one is S. This Lionel car was the event car for the 2013 S Fest West. It sold quickly because so many S gaugers always wanted one. Except for the boxcar body and sliding doors this is a copy of the HO car. It is a good looking car.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice car Tom. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

I guess I didn't explain myself very well regarding my earlier 910 posting on eBay. I know the 910 is usually "Gilbert Chemicals". My point to my post which I didn't explain well, was to point out that this car listed has all the markings where they should be and looked like a Gilbert issue and not a fake. In my Doyle book, he mentions the licensing issue which I had forgotten about. Bottom line, over the years I haven't payed attention to these cars because I've never liked them in general but most importantly, I have heard of too many fakes.

Kenny


----------



## AF-Doc'

Tom, that Green Bay & Western is a fine addition and a great looking car. dang gilbert one for the S would have been great. We would all be looking, yes?

Kenny, I could not afford the 910 when I first saw it, and I liked the colors as I have seen a real one here at the Celanese plant before they closed. So I did a reproduction for myself and then found the 910 & 912 as a package on eBay. They both fit all the descriptions and showed the correct age related coloring and ware. Lots of fakes for sure.


----------



## AmFlyer

We just need to get the Lionel Flyer version of the GB&W and be happy Lionel made it. I like that car with the maroon and gray colors. It is also great that Lionel remade both the Celanese and Gilbert Chemical versions of the 910. That way anyone who wants them can get them inexpensively. Since there is only one known and documented Gilbert 910 decorated with Celanese none of us can have an original.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I could be happy with a Lionel Flyer version of GB&W 41002. It is a sharp car no matter the manufacturer. Naturally the first thing is finding one. None on eBay at this time. When that car was presented as the 2013 S Fest car, I failed to order one. It was a put it off until tomorrow thing. Tomorrow never came. Some how the order form got thrown out. I thought I'd get one at the show. Nope. None left when got there. So far I still haven't gotten the 2 hoppers for this years S Fest. My check was cashed. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I bought a car last night that I have admired from afar for some years. It is the Monon flat car with the American Flyer Trains trailers. I had it on my watch list at 40.00 Buy It Now. Seller sent me an offer of 29.00. I bit. Looks to be in good shape. Last 3 numbers on the car is 550, the common version. There is a rare version. The trailers look to be original but I do not know they are original to that flat car. The ones I have seen for my car had black roofs. My trailers have silver roofs. Fine with me. This is not a mint car, one of the trailers has a small scratch. This should be the last TOFC car I buy. I have plenty enough of them. Enough to make a unit train. I will post pic of it when it gets here. Probably in
this thread.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, you are on a roll. Good thing the internet connectivity was fixed.


----------



## AF-Doc'

mopac there are never enough cars...I too lusted after that Monon 24550 and a few years ago I ran across this one on eBay. I still need layout room for it to have a home. Maybe some HO track will give it some space.


----------



## mopac

Very nice Doug. I do not have the loader and unloader. Looks new. It is a cool car.


----------



## AF-Doc'

Thank you. the seller did say he purchased it new and never set it up. If I don't find it a home it will move on new again to some other collector. We should play a little with our toys, Yes?


----------



## AmFlyer

I have never set mine up either. It needs to be close to the edge of the layout which was always a problem for me.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice box and set Doug. I have that AF TOFC car and loader /unloader and have never set it up either. No box though. I also have a 956 Monon that I have with my other TOFC cars. As we all know, that 956 won't work with the loader/unloader. I have a total of 7 different other TOFC cars so I could put together a unit train I guess. All of them are in one of my glass cases. 

Mopac, your 24550 is compatible with the loader/unloader if you ever come across one. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I doubt I will pick one up. There is 3 of you that has one and not set it up. I would imagine it
takes up alot of real-estate. The 956 is not real common.


----------



## AF-Doc'

mopac said:


> Kenny, I doubt I will pick one up. There is 3 of you that has one and not set it up. I would imagine it
> takes up alot of real-estate. The 956 is not real common.


I could not stand it. So............the HO lost real-estate and the Piggy Back Unloader may have a home. Even though It's a manual unload and reload it works quite well with a little tweaking of the truck wheels. Oh, it makes a cabooses have to sit on a siding.


----------



## AmFlyer

I was going to ask, where is the caboose spur?


----------



## mopac

Looks nice.
Doug, your trailers have black roofs. The ones coming to me have silver roofs.
Maybe mine are repros. We will see when they get here.


----------



## mopac

I said I was pretty much done buying cars. Bought one today I did not have. Have not even seen one before.
801 B&O hopper. Nice car. Won it by 11 cents. I bid 7.11 and 2nd place bidder bid 7.00. Bet he was not happy losing
the car for 11 cents. Most times I bid odd cents and have won with the odd cents.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a good price for a nice 801. You seem to have good luck with your eBay bids.


----------



## mopac

Since I had never seen one I thought the price was good.
I will be watching for the 41002. I doubt I will find one cheap.
Good looking car.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, you seem to be doing real good since your internet over haul. How is the mail delivery? I finally got my Santa Fe 35-78013 "El Capitan" reefer from Springfield, MA that I bought 10/12/20! It came this past Thursday, 10/22/20,in transit 10 days. Since I was tracking it, the first thing I thought about was you and the ordeal you had. My car went through 8 postal stops. The weird part was that somehow it went from Springfield, MA, stopped twice in MA, then through a series of other postal stops, ended up in Dallas,TX!! Then took an indirect route to Champaign, Il, 80 miles away. My "local" sorting point. There it stayed for 3 days!! When it finally got to my post office, the mailman left me a notice that I had a box requiring my signature since I wasn't home when he brought it to my house. So I went to the P.O. to inquire. Yes it was there alright. It was stamped "fragile" in 3 different places by the seller. The box was pretty beaten up. The word "fragile" must mean "kick me around". The Post Master knows me and knows I collect trains and most are not cheap. That was the reason for the required signature. Fearing the worst, I opened the box. My car had been packed very well. The seller did a good job of packing otherwise who knows what that car would have looked like. Then I signed their stupid piece of paper that I accepted my parcel. So much for 3-5 days for Priority Mail!!

I forgot to mention your 801 buy. You got that cheap. I don't remember what I paid but it sure wasn't that cheap.

Kenny


----------



## AF-Doc'

Nice bidding style 11 cents for a nice car your on it. Tom the picture is just the initial layout if it stays there will be a turnout for the caboose that will fit in the foreground of the picture.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Doug.

I have showed these pics before but not for awhile. In the mood to post some pics.
These are some passenger trains by Lionel for S scale. I have voiced my opinion on
how they run. I think they are beautiful trains. Made in the 1980s and 1990s.
First is a Southern Pacific
Then C&O
Then the engine set for a MoPac train. I have all the cars.
I have a UP set but can't find any pics of it. Did post the cars behind my 336 northe


----------



## mopac

Kenny, the mail has been ok lately. It could change at any time. I have a package today
"out for delivery". It was mailed thursday, so not bad, but it is only coming from Iowa. It
is my TOFC american flyer trains trailers. Should be in the mailbox any minute.


----------



## mopac

Got my 24550 and trailers. Its not mint but fine to run. I did not pay for a mint one.
LOL, front supports for the front axle and wheels of one trailer was broken when I
took it out of the shipping box. It did not happen in the mail. Had some glue on it.
I guess seller forgot to tell me about it. No biggie, I repaired it already. It is fine.
My trailer roofs are black, they looked silver in seller's pics.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks good in the picture.


----------



## BigGRacing

The trains and pics are incredible !


----------



## mopac

Thanks BigG


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, this year you should think about some snow pictures. The UP cars and the 4-8-4 would look great in a snow scene. I would take some but, well, it doesn't snow here.


----------



## mopac

You mean on the wall?


----------



## AmFlyer

Whatever you could stage after a light snow. Staging the trains on the wall always seems to result in good pictures.


----------



## AF-Doc'

mopac, the train picture look great and I love the C & O. It looks like you picked a nice one with the 24550 and black roof too. well done again.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Doug. I won another auction this morning with that 11 cent thing. Won by 11 cents over
2nd place bidder. Most people bid at an even dollar amount. 11 cents made the difference. I find
it funny sometimes. Of coarse sometimes I lose by a bid of 61 cent odd bid. And I am 2nd place
bidder. Beat by 50 cents. I lose more than I win. Thank goodness.


----------



## AF-Doc'

I too use a cents thing on my bidding and it is 87 cents. In addition I bid in early just to get in the bid listing and then I increase my max bid in the last 3 to 4 seconds as it is only a single click bid. Sometimes it works and some times I save money. What did you win today?


----------



## mopac

I won a Northern Pacific lionel car new in box. From 2002. Red white and blue in color.
With the metal trucks. Can't remember the model #. will add it in a bit. 22.11 plus 8.00 shipping.

Its a boxcar 6-48348
I


----------



## AFGP9

The few times I have been bidding on eBay, I have always used and odd cents thing too with mixed results. No big deal. I just started back on eBay in the last few weeks. Laid off for years because people tended to over rate, and flat out lie about what they are selling. By nature I have a very low trust factor. Instead I was relying on train shows. Now those are few if any, and I am back to trying eBay. No engines though. I have gotten a couple of cars that seller rated C9. They are. I will try to post pictures today. One of them was the one I described as taking a USPS scenic tour of the
country.

Mopac those wall passenger train shots are still neat. I like Tom's idea of setting them up with a little snow behind them. That American Flyer TOFC car looks good to me. I have been wondering why you thought you were getting silver trailer roofs. I feared you might be getting somebody's repro's. Looks like all is well in Missouri critter land.

Kenny


----------



## AF-Doc'

Good price, I'm looking at Lionel NP Box cars and is your a Bicentennial ? That red, white and blue car is off the chain, dang....


----------



## mopac

For the snow shots I have some pine trees that will look good in the shots.
I will try to set out a few in front of the trains. LOL, if I can find them. Weatherman
predicted less than normal snowfall this winter. Less than last year would be none.
Back in the 1980s 6 to 18 inches were common. Not the case in last 10 years.


----------



## mopac

Doug, its red white and blue but I do not think it is a bicentennial.
The car promotes US Savngs Bonds

Here is the auction









48348 American Flyer NORTHERN PACIFIC BOXCAR NEW IN BOX 23922483485 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 48348 American Flyer NORTHERN PACIFIC BOXCAR NEW IN BOX at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, here in northcentral Ill. we got above average snow fall last year which was 41" nicely spread out in 4-6" intervals. This year they are saying "just" average for this year. With so many years of up and down amounts, seems to me it would be hard to predict what is considered average any more. None is fine with me. Like you say, years ago 6 to 10-18 was nothing unusual. I do not miss it. Heck I haven't even had the urge to test my snow blower. Weatherman says a dusting tonight. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

From 2002, I do not recall seeing that car. Nice find.
I imagine no snow in the midwest is acceptable. It is early for any measurable snow accumulation in Chicago


----------



## AF-Doc'

I think the snow shots would be a great background. Not so much snow here any more in SC.

A new car arrived today.










It had the knuckle coupler conversion done and it cam with the original box.


----------



## AF-Doc'

mopac if I buy a bond can I have a great looking car like yours...?


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice open slat 629.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice open slat 629 Doc/Doug. Pick a name. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Doug, its red white and blue but I do not think it is a bicentennial.
> The car promotes US Savngs Bonds
> 
> Here is the auction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 48348 American Flyer NORTHERN PACIFIC BOXCAR NEW IN BOX 23922483485 | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 48348 American Flyer NORTHERN PACIFIC BOXCAR NEW IN BOX at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


Nice car to have mopac. Can't say I've ever seen one. Good score. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Thanks Kenny, Nice open slat Doug. I got one a couple months ago.


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## mopac

I was out last night and had to bid early on ebay. I got nothing. Seldom works for me.
With me its not about winning, its about a good deal. There is always another one.
To me, bidding early is like playing poker with some guys and showing your hand
before the bets go down. I could bid crazy and win but that is not me. One thing I did
want, got close, but no cigar. A boxed brand new set of Nickel Plate GP9s. From about
1997. Bid was at 150 when I put my bid in. I bid 193.11. It went for 197.00. I was 2nd
from top bid. Or 2nd loser. There will be more.


----------



## AF-Doc'

AFGP9 said:


> Nice open slat 629 Doc/Doug. Pick a name.
> 
> Kenny


Sorry a left over in the signature edit..my bad.


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## AmFlyer

Here are some tank car pictures that highlight some of the numbering changes. Some early Shell tank cars were marked as 8,000lb capacity. I have a black version but it was not on the layout so it is not pictured. The correct capacity was 80,000lb as stamped on the silver Shell. The early Gulf car had two errors, the capacity skyrocketed to 800,000lb and it had Shell reporting marks. Gilbert got it right with the 625G. The capacity is 100,000lb and the reporting marks are GRCX. When Lionel reissued the orange shell car they used the correct SEPX marking and the correct 80,000lb capacity.


----------



## mopac

I like tank cars. I have a few.

Got my Northern pacific Savings Bonds car today. Not much sun today. Might be April or May
before we see the sun again. But I did get some pics. It finally stopped raining here. Lionel
not too careful on what they print on their box. It says diecast trucks. They are plastic. Its a
nice condition box and it is correct box.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a beautiful car, it looks brand new, never out of the box. It was also expensive to make with all the colors and stampings. I was reading the little yellow notice at the bottom right, never seen one of these on a Lionel AF car before. It says "Keep off Roof No Running Board." That is a fabulous little detail. The ex-Gilbert boxcar Lionel used to make this car has running boards, Lionel does not have an S gauge boxcar without them to use.


----------



## mopac

The car is brand new, never run. It is nice. There are 3 or 4 others on ebay right now but they are double the price
I paid for mine.

LOL, I think it does have a running board.


----------



## AmFlyer

We actually had a 1/4" of rain here over the weekend. Then back to sunshine. It is 75 no clouds, but the air is full of smoke so the sun looks hazy. Very unhealthy air outside, should be cleared up tomorrow. Today is the first day with no high winds so the firefighters have got the fires surrounded. These two new fires just NE of us are brushfires, not forest fires. With the 40mph winds the fire was moving a mile in 15 minutes. I am staying indoors and running trains until tomorrow.


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## alaft61ri

All your pics looks great like the diesels look sharp
Al


----------



## AF-Doc'

A really good looking car. and linked to the 293 Pacific looks super. The wall is the perfect photo location.


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## AFGP9

That is a nice car mopac. Also looks good behind your good looking 293. As I said before, never seen one of those cars before.

Kenny



AmFlyer said:


> We actually had a 1/4" of rain here over the weekend. Then back to sunshine. It is 75 no clouds, but the air is full of smoke so the sun looks hazy. Very unhealthy air outside, should be cleared up tomorrow. Today is the first day with no high winds so the firefighters have got the fires surrounded. These two new fires just NE of us are brushfires, not forest fires. With the 40mph winds the fire was moving a mile in 15 minutes. I am staying indoors and running trains until tomorrow.


That fire would be too close for me moving at that rate, contained or not. I can't imagine how bad the air the air quality must be. You got the right plan--stay indoors and run trains. What a fire season you people out there have had this year. At least you live close to the ocean as a last resort. lol

I got a call from Roy Mesissner regarding my S Fest hoppers. Supposedly will be shipped in the next few days.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Great news on the hoppers, post a picture when they arrive. 
My Nephew was evacuated but was cleared to return home this AM. The fires were about 12 miles from us and there is no direct way for them to get here. The bad thing about grass/brush fires is they move fast in high winds, the good thing is there is no real mass burning like in a forest fire. The highest recorded wind gust two days ago was 96mph, a Category 2 hurricane speed. As soon as the winds dropped and the fire suppression aircraft could fly the fires can be extinguished with some water drops and some phoscheck drops. The big helicopters drop 3,000 gallons at a time. The DC10 can lay a 1/2 mile of the red phoscheck at a time.


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## AFGP9

Sounds like good news. Cat 2 hurricane winds. Unbelievable! I've heard about those California winds. I thought when we had a 70 mph straight line wind storm that was bad. There was a lot of damage, but 96 mph? Cat 2? Crazy.


----------



## AFGP9

Here is my photo(s) of the day. Finally got around to taking some pictures. Both of these cars are new. The El Capitan reefer looks pretty good. Tom you were right about how easily this MTH car rolls. 
I'm not too crazy about the Ann Arbor Lionel Flyer hopper. Way too bright of an orange color. Secondly, it is a covered hopper which I either missed in the description since the seller had only one side picture in the listing or he didn't mention it. Either way it will not be going on my layout since in doesn't fit the time period of my railroad which is early transition era. Just plain don't like it. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

The reefer looks good. I feel the same about the Ann Arbor as you, it does not fit with the time period and is a bit orange.


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## AFGP9

I thought I was thinking correctly Tom. Thanks for your reinforcement. As they say, live and learn. By the way, just who is "they"? It seems a lot gets attributed to "they".
As far as the El Capitan reefer goes, now I wish I had a few more with different road numbers. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Since the Erie reefer was made in two road numbers I would expect the Santa Fe was also.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I have a correction. My two Erie reefers were made by SHS. The SHS and AM reefers are similar.


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## flyernut

Yes, I know it doesn't belong here, but I got these 3 cars from MTH, O gauge...2 of the flats have 1970 Nova's, and the 4-car carrier has 2 Firebirds and 2 Novas.I believe I have around 8 flats with cars, mostly Novas, but some with GTO's and 1 with a 64 Impala..Will look nice behind my Big Boy.


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## AmFlyer

Another reminder of how many more nice railcars and 1/43 model cars are made for O gauge than in 1/64th scale. I am content to collect only S scale and just admire the other scales.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice flyernut. Once again O gauge has more options than S gauge. No matter, I will stay a Gilbert American Flyer/S gauge collector. I'll just be a jealous, envious O gauge admirer. 

Kenny


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## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> Very nice flyernut. Once again O gauge has more options than S gauge. No matter, I will stay a Gilbert American Flyer/S gauge collector. I'll just be a jealous, envious O gauge admirer.
> 
> Kenny


I've always liked MTH stuff, and my special interest in these cars come from my special interest in Nova's. I'v had probably 8 of them in the past 50 years, but I'm keeping this one..


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## AFGP9

Yeah that's a keeper alright. I've had a thing for Nova's too. I started out owning a 1962 Chevy II as they first called, which I put in a much modified 283 bored to 288, Muncie 4 spd. and a 4:11 gear. That was a 12 second car, then on to a 301 using the same block. I had 4 more of those cars because they were light and cheap. I think I mentioned before I ended up with 1969 SS with an L78 396 which I did a total nut and bolt restoration on. As a GM parts manger, parts were easy to get back then. That is the car I should have kept although I would have tired of the constant valve adjusting even with polylocks as I got older. A stud girdle won't fit under stock height valve covers. It was Marina Blue. Same no chrome body look as yours. Love the red line tires. Coker? 

Kenny


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## alaft61ri

Very cool love the old cars.


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## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> Yeah that's a keeper alright. I've had a thing for Nova's too. I started out owning a 1962 Chevy II as they first called, which I put in a much modified 283 bored to 288, Muncie 4 spd. and a 4:11 gear. That was a 12 second car, then on to a 301 using the same block. I had 4 more of those cars because they were light and cheap. I think I mentioned before I ended up with 1969 SS with an L78 396 which I did a total nut and bolt restoration on. As a GM parts manger, parts were easy to get back then. That is the car I should have kept although I would have tired of the constant valve adjusting even with polylocks as I got older. A stud girdle won't fit under stock height valve covers. It was Marina Blue. Same no chrome body look as yours. Love the red line tires. Coker?
> 
> Kenny


Original Firestones, bias-based tires.. They're quite a load to drive, compared to today's radials.


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## AFGP9

Original Firstones! Wow! I haven't driven on any biased belt tires since the radials came out. I can only imagine the handling difference. I did my restoration on my '69, from the original build sheet that I found in the back seat back rest between the fabric and metal mesh support material. No Red Line tire RPO code. Plus I had the matching sticker on the glove box door. I forget the RPO option those tires had. I still have years worth of GM parts catalogs plus several P.N. history books. Eventually it all went to computers. If you ever need any RPO numbers for anything on your car let me know and I will see if I can look it up or you can go to "New GM Parts.com". at the bottom of the page click on "RPO List" I do remember the SS Nova's had RPO F41 for the suspension, G80 for limited slip, and H04 for 4:11 gear. 

Kenny


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## mopac

For a guy that said he was about done with buying rolling stock, my mailbox has been producing lately.
Yesterday I got my 801 B&O hopper. I expect 2 cars today to hit my mailbox. The 2 cars are new in box.
Both are covered hoppers. From the 1980s. One is NYC and one is UP. We have a rare sunny day here
so I will get pics of my 3 recent additions and post them today. I paid 21.00 including shipping
each for the new covered hoppers. A good price I thought.

Kenny, I really like your new El Capitan car, very nice.


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## mopac

The cars made it. All as described. All nice. All have diecast trucks.


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## AmFlyer

Good cars. I especially like the two Lionel covered hoppers. Hard to believe you bought them for $21ea including the shipping. The UP is from 1987. The NYC is from 1984 and was part of the NYC freight set cataloged that year.


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## mopac

Tom, you are correct on the years of the covered hoppers. Hard to believe they were still new in the box. I have accumulated some nice new Lionel cars. I have many more than I will be able to use. It would be nice if those old Gilbert engines could pull 10 to 15 cars. Most won't. Without pulmor tires the wheels just slip to easily. On my HO cars I did some tests and metal wheels roll much easier than plastic wheels. I was in the process of switching wheels on
my cars with InterMountain metal wheels. One wheel on each axle is isolated. I wonder if they make ones for S scale. Plus the metal wheels clicketly clack at rail joints. All the trucks on
my HO cars were plastic so no shorts. Axles have needle points and journals were cone shaped, Amazing how many cars those little HO locomotives would pull.

Very happy with my new cars. I like them.


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## alaft61ri

Nice


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## AmFlyer

Maybe you recall this picture I posted about 6 months ago. It is my plastic 302 pulling 15 cars. As the picture was taken it was on a 1.5% downgrade, however just past the green truss bridge the train climbs a 2% upgrade. But, only one car is a Gilbert car, the other 14 are a mix of SHS and AM cars. If I lubed the axles well the 302 would pull 10 Lionel AF cars up the 2% grade.
To answer your question there are some choices. The best would be to buy the bearing kits and pointed axles from Ed Goldin and retrofit the existing cars. If you just want replacement metal wheels SHS made them. If you want freer rolling trucks Lionel makes them with rotating bearing caps.
Replacing trucks and wheels sounded like a lot of work to me so I took the easy way out. I quit running Gilbert engines on the big layout. The Legacy engines pull anything anywhere. Pictures below.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, nice hoppers. I have 31 hoppers but not a 9207 NYC and a 48601 UP. I like those. What I really want is a mailbox like yours that produces railroad cars. Mine just produces bills to be paid. 
In your discussion about easy rolling cars, that El Capitan reefer is the freest rolling car right out of the box I've ever seen. Tom warned me that an MTH car would do that and I would want more. He was right. Honestly though, I don't have much of a problem with my Flyer cars once the gaging is correct and the axle ends in the side frames are lubricated and kept lubricated as they are used after so many hours. I keep a log on running time for all my engines and cars and service them based on hours run. No that's not an exact science but pretty close, especially engines. Of course not all the cars are ran. Most set in the yard. That way I don't need to lube everything. I've looked at those Ed Goldin's bearing kits. I have converted several wheel sets with the metal SHS ones. Together with gaging and lubrication, they work great for sure. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

I thought I would post these pictures since I have them in the file. The 24550 on the left is compatible with the unloader and has the one piece long trailer bracket. The 956 has the 2 trailer brackets and is not compatible with the unloader.
Well for what ever reason I can't get 3 other pictures to post properly. Tired of fooling with this. 

Kenny


Kenny


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## mopac

Great pic of your layout and the flat cars with the trailers. I have a few covered hoppers but no where near 31. I might have around 10 to 12. Half being Lionel and half being Gilbert Jersey Centrals. Covered hoppers look good on the rails. Got lucky on an Ebay win about a year ago. I had got a Jersey Central in a lot of cars. The top was missing. Then I ran across a car I liked and the seller was including a top for a covered hopper. Perfect.
So all my covered hoppers have their tops.


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## mopac

Kenny, I am giving my mailbox a rest. Nothing coming and nothing on order. I will have to show old pics.


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## alaft61ri

Really nice flat cars layout

Al


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, amazingly I had never seen those two TOFC's side by side. It is apparent why the separate sale car does not work with the unloader.
Kenny, you make a good but subtle point about the Lionel and Gilbert cars. The first thing required is to set the wheel gauge accurately. I find about 50% of the Gilbert cars are wrong and 100% of the Lionel cars made prior to 2019 are a 1/10th of an inch too narrow. For lowest rolling resistance the gauge must be corrected. Unfortunately at their best the Lionel cars are nowhere near the low rolling resistance of AM or SHS/MTH cars.


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## mopac

I have found that removing wheelsets, cleaning axle ends and journals, and a small drop of oil greatly improves the rolling resistance of cars. The better they roll the more you can pull. I got some cars that rolled poorly and did all that to them and could not believe the difference. They kept trying to roll away. With the Lionel cars with the plastic trucks dry graphite might work better than oil.


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## AmFlyer

Here are two original 755 Talking Station replacement records. These are NOS with the OE's. These records are two sided, the same recording on both sides, the standard for the 755 Talking station. Later records had two different recordings on each side. I bought these from Andy Jugle when he was thinning out his collection. Every time I look at these records I am reminded how stupid I was to not buy at least one of every variation of these records. Andy had at least a dozen of each version he was selling that day.


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## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I am giving my mailbox a rest. Nothing coming and nothing on order. I will have to show old pics.


I just thought you had some sort of magical mail box that was running amuck and you couldn't stop it. I just wanted in on that sort of mail box. Thanks for your comments on my layout. It still needs some fine tuning. Call it a work in progress. I have a thing for hoppers, tank cars, and reefers, especially wood sided reefers like the El Capitan. Now I am looing for more for more wood sided reefers. It looks like MTH and SHS has a few even though I have tried to stay strictly to AF cars. 
Speaking of covered hoppers, I have 2 9207 Lionel Flyer NYC covered cement hoppers. I didn't intend on buying 2 of the same number but I was at a train show and saw that they were 2 different shades of gray so I bought them. That variation isn't mentioned in the Greenberg price guide. After I bought them, I found them at other train shows. Not at the same seller's tables though. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

alaft61ri said:


> Really nice flat cars layout
> 
> Al


Thanks Al.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom, I have to be honest, I never knew there were different records for the 755. I really never paid any attention sense the one I got with my 755 was just fine and is an A.C. Gilbert original. Is there a difference whether the 755 is a blue or green roof? I've never gotten around to buying a blue roofed 755 simply because the 755 I have now is no longer on my layout.
Mopac and Tom, the first thing I do when I get a car whether new or used, is check the gaging and pull the axles and lubricate. I've never found any car to be properly gaged. I have a gaging tool I bought years ago. Nothing but a block of aluminum. Just sits in between the wheels. Well not at first. A little adjusting of the wheels then it fits. Then I might change the wheels sets out for the Showcase steel ones. That is a work in progress since I started that after I had already acquired a number of AF cars. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I recall there are a total of 5 different records, one of which is molded in red plastic. I think all the 755 and 755A's had the same record. My Blue roof 755A has the same record as my Green roof 755. The records changed when the 799 was introduced and again with the 23786. Most of these records have different recordings on the two sides. one has a new West bound announcement with an East bound on the other side. Some have random train noises on one side and a conductor dialog on the other side. I have found four of the recordings online for copy or playback.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Tom for the useful information regarding the records. After I mentioned the Blue roof 755, I saw a nice one last night on eBay. Still won't buy it but I thought it a bit ironic that I asked about that variation and it's record and one turns up. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Perhaps that is the latest advancement in targeted advertising?


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## mopac

ALMOST funny how that targeted advertising works. Its out there.

LOL, well, my mail box did not stay shut down long. Just bought and paid for a lot of
5 NKP AF/Lionel cars, new in box. I already had one or two of a couple of the cars.
I prescribe to if one is good two is better. The lot was on ebay for 125.00 plus 20.40
shipping. 145.40 total. Seller sent me an offer for 99.50 plus 20.40 shipping. 119.90 total.
He said he got these from a train shop that was closing. And he wanted to move them.
So it works out to 24.00 including
shipping each. I thought a good price. All with diecast trucks.
I will post pics when they get here.

6-48713 Lighted caboose, need it for my AF NKP 342 switcher
6-48610 Covered hopper, I have 1 but 2 will work
6-48807 Yellow refrigerator car, makes 2 I have
6-48320 Brown and white beautiful box car. Must have.
6-48360 ( I think correct number ) gondola with cannisters

Before I bought these cars I looked in completed auctions and these cars were
selling for 10.00 or more than 24.00 including shipping.


----------



## AmFlyer

As always, you get items cheaper than others. I am concerned with your latest NKP acquisitions the you now need a brawny road engine to pull them all rather than that 342 yard switcher. Better hurry and buy one of the new Lionel NKP Berkshires before they are all gone. I think Charles Ro still has some at a discount.


----------



## mopac

I would like a Berk for sure. I would like #1225. May have to look into that. Charles Ro is the place that went through and serviced my ZW transformer. They added a modern circuit breaker also.


----------



## mopac

I went to the Charles Ro site and they do have some Berkshires. They do have the 1225 but that is a Pere Marquette engine. They do have NKP #765. That would work. I like models of real locomotives that were preserved. 765 is still around. Now I have to build up to 289.99. Going to casino tonight for dinner and some slots. If I win (big if) I will order one
when I get home. I have already been thinking about one.


----------



## mopac

I checked TrainWorld and they are 10.00 higher than Charles Ro. I was surprised.

I see a problem - Min curves is 36. I have K-Line curves but they are only 27 Uh-Oh.
Maybe not a problem, my 27 might be 54. It just said S36


----------



## AmFlyer

I have 765 and 3361 on order. I hope to have them "soon."
I would not wager my Berk on winning big at the slots. Maybe you do better that I ever did.


----------



## AmFlyer

The minimum curve is 36" DIAMETER, no worries!


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is 3362 Berkshire running on my layout.


----------



## mopac

I came home 600.00 up a few nights ago but have since gave that back. No, it is not a place to make money.
Last year I did hit a 14,700 jackpot but bet they have that back also. Thats stupid. I need another hobby. LOL.
So you think the min. curves are alright. Your longevity of fans and smoke units bother me a bit. But you have a constant volts higher than I will be using. I would think that is something. I have not bought a new engine in 4 or 5 years.
All mine have been 65 to 70 years old when bought lately.


----------



## mopac

Beautiful Berk Tom.

Many people consider Berks one of the most beautiful steam locomotives made.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice Berk Tom. I took your advise and checked on a new one. Not as pricey as I thought it would be. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Perhaps that is the latest advancement in targeted advertising?


Never thought about that. Maybe.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, the Berkshire will run just fine on original Gilbert 20"R track. I only power my track at 15V, the engines are designed for up to 18V. The smoke unit lives varies a lot. I have some that have never failed and some that fail early in life. I suppose the average would be 6 years between repairs. They are actually easy to fix once you do one. I just choose to send mine out for personal time reasons. I am not yet fully retired.
I have that Erie Berk in the picture, it was a Flyerchief but is now TMCC. I have an similar Legacy Erie on order so I was wondering what to do with the existing Erie but you just planted a thought. I will look for someone to repaint it so I have a 1225 numbered red/green/gold Chistmas engine to pull my Christmas cars.


----------



## mopac

1225 is a fine engine, but so is 765. 1225 is the Polar Express engine. Gotta go, catch you guys later.


----------



## AmFlyer

1225 is also the number on this little Christmas Tank Engine. I have two of these, the one for separate sale is decorated slightly different than the one that was put in this set.
I am thinking of having my TMCC Erie Berk painted similar to this engine to pull my Christmas cars. Sound ok?


----------



## AmFlyer

By the way, this set, #6-49621 is one of the sets that included the 27"R curve track after the Lionel acquisition of K-Line.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the info. I need 4 more pieces of K-Line wide curves.
Had a little luck at casino. Oh, and a great dinner. I brought over
800 of their money home. NKP #765 has been ordered and paid for.
I swore I would not buy another Lionel/American Flyer engine but I did.
Shipping charge was not bad.

Doing a 1225 Christmas sounds cool. Lionel makes a gold chrome 1225 Berk but in O scale.
It is awesome.


----------



## mopac

I should have checked ebay for a new 765 before ordering one from Charles RO. I didn't. I have since checked.
There was at least 4 of them brand new. All of them was at least 70.00 higher than Tom and I paid. So they were on sale.
Getting excited.


----------



## AmFlyer

Congratulations Mopac, it sounds like a great day. Charles Ro and Lionel got your winnings before the casino could reclaim them. I have seen the gold plated Berk along with the passenger cars. There are so many things made in O but not in S.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Tom. I did spend some more of my winnings today before casino gets it back. More NKP motive power. I got a set ( powered and dummy) of NKP GP9s. 175.00 new never ran but not in OB. They are in the Styrofoam cradles. I do not know what happened to OBs. They are good looking locomotives. Thats enough NKP power. In fact I am going to try and shut down the mail box again. LOL, I got a package out of the mail box today. 4 Gilbert turnouts. 2 powered and 2 manual. They were only 5 bucks a piece. No controller for the powered ones. They look good. Since I have all these cars now I got the turnouts for sidings to set cars on. I really need to get the layout going. That beautiful 293 I got from flyernut has not been run yet. I have no track down. flyernut said it runs great. I think I got it early this year. I will have to get a bunch of pics when all this other stuff comes in. May have to buy another house just for all my train goodies. I already have been renting a large storage unit. Garage size.


----------



## AmFlyer

Assume that is the 1997 48017 NPR diesel set. The NPR Hoppers with the 5 different road numbers are from the same time (2017) as my Erie set. They are nice hoppers with good lettering. You have a lot of new items yet to be photographed.
The two guys that visited my layout two months ago did just that, they bought another house 500 yards away from the principal residence just for the trains.


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## mopac

Does the Berk smoke in neutral. That #611 J Class MTH
I showed will smoke up a storm in neutral.


----------



## AmFlyer

My FlyerChief Berk does but not as much as the Legacy Y-3's. I do not have the new Legacy Berks yet but all the new Legacy engines smoke at idle, even the diesels. I do not think any of the S gauge engines smoke quite as much as the O gauge engines.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> I should have checked ebay for a new 765 before ordering one from Charles RO. I didn't. I have since checked.
> There was at least 4 of them brand new. All of them was at least 70.00 higher than Tom and I paid. So they were on sale.
> Getting excited.


Nice going mopac. Won some money and invested it in a new 765. Smart. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Pics will be delayed because I just bought 2 more cars. I want to show them all at once.
Am I making a mistake buying more Lionel cars? These things are going cheap. Bought
2 new in box for 14.00 each SHIPPED. 9.50 plus 4.50 shipping for each. I could not resist.
Both of these cars are part of the Historic Railroads series. Diecast trucks. Nice cars.
One is a TOFC. NY Central. The other one I already have but that is ok. Its the 3 dome
tanker car NYC. 2 3 domes together is great. LOL, I really need to stay off ebay.


----------



## AmFlyer

At the price you are getting them buy whatever you like. If you happen to see a 6-48195 Legacy U33C Christmas engine buy it for me.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, at the rate you are opening and closing that mailbox you may have to replace the hinge with an industrial strength hinge. At the rate you seem to be able to find eBay bargains, I wouldn't stop now. Remember, too much isn't. 

Kenny


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## mopac

I lost one I wanted last night. Finished 2nd. Santa Fe covered hopper. Oh well. I saved a little money.

Kenny, those hinges are going to be smoking starting Monday. I did oil them.


----------



## AFGP9

Good to know mopac that you practice preventive maintenance. Looking forward to all those new photos from the wall. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I got a nice package today. Its a beautiful day here in Missouri but still going to wait till all is in.
I got the 5 car NKP lot today. All cars and boxes super nice. Truly new. My favorite car is the
NKP High Speed Service box car 6-48320. I thought it was brown and white stripe. It is a Silver stripe. A real stunning looking car. I paid 20 a piece plus shipping for these. NKP cars seem to command a little higher price. Got 25.00 off the buy it now price. All have diecast trucks.


----------



## AmFlyer

Don't forget to look for my Christmas engine, if anyone can find it you can. 
I do not recall that NKP boxcar. It is no longer archived on the Lionel site. When you start assembling a layout you will need a large freight yard.


----------



## mopac

Tom, sorry, but can't find which engine I was to look for. And I am drawing a blank.
Please tell me again.


----------



## AmFlyer

A 6-48195 Legacy U33C Christmas engine. The road name is North Pole Central. No need to search but if you ever see one let me know. It will not be cheap. I am also in the process of getting a quote to have my Erie Berkshire repainted as a Christmas engine. I suddenly have too much free time to think about these things.


----------



## mopac

OK, a 6 axle GE diesel. Christmas. Who might have one of those Christmas
train set with the K-Line curves?
Here is a pic in the shade of the High Speed Service car.\


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a nice boxcar, and a nice sunny day.
You must be asking about this Christmas set in its mint, sealed OB that is carefully kept in my place in San Diego? I have a second identical set that has been opened but is unused. Unfortunately I cannot find it. I am certain I gave it to my son shortly after I bought it. We are going to his house today and I plan to search for it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is the Christmas engine I am looking for.


----------



## mopac

That is pretty cool looking.

Yes that is the set I mentioned. Hate to buy a set to get 4 pieces of track. I have not put up a tree since my wife passed.
But that would be cool under a tree.

I looked on ebay for your Christmas engine. Found 2 Legacy U33s. One used, one new. No Christmas unit. I will watch for one.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, I hope you have better luck than me. If I find the second 49621 set I would sell it to you but if you only want 4 pieces of curve track they would be too expensive that way.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I will watch for one.

I got another package today. My 2 NKP GP9s arrived. Over all very happy with them. Not a scratch on them. Good looking locomotives. #496 and #497. Bottom half of the Styrofoam cradles only. No red box. Seller stated there was no box.. I need to come up with some tops for the cradles. I have no track down right now so could not really test run. I did get my ZW and put some leads to the power pickup shoes. The powered one ran very smooth
in forward and reverse. Slow speed seemed good. I pulled the shells off of both units. Only one truck drive. There are 3 traction tires on that truck. Lionel does rave about the traction effort of the unit. We shall see. The can motor was much larger than I expected. My Lionel PA locomotives are 2 truck drive but the can motors are much smaller. I am worried if my GP9s will run through turnouts. One pick up shoe on each truck. From what I can tell, the shoes are the only power pick ups. And I did not see a flywheel on motor. So how they go through turnouts I do not know. So alot remains to be seen. They look great. The dummy unit has a reverse unit. I thought that was just for rear and front headlights. Both headlights are are on in forwards or reverse. So I have no idea why the reverse unit in the dummy. The set in a sealed unit come with spare traction tires. I got no extras. Not a biggie. Jeff Kane carries them.
Again, over all happy with my new locos. I should get another package Monday of 2 new cars and I do not know when my new Berk is coming. I do know it is coming UPS or Fedex. Got an email.


----------



## mopac

I wrote this last night but failed to post it. I got home at 2 in the morning and it was on the front porch.

And I got another package delivered late today. My NKP Berkshire. It is a fine looking locomotive. Maybe too nice. Lots of detail that could be broke off. My first thought was I like my 70 year old engines better. I will get used to this new one. No instruction manual came with it. I am going to assume that is normal and you have to find your manual on the Lionel site. Not crazy about that but is probably the way it is. Glad I have no track down. I want to read and absorb the manual before I run it. It is late now, maybe I will get more excited about it tomorrow. Its nice and cost less than my Northerns. It is diecast shell and diecast tender shell. Charles RO got it to me quickly. Busy day for me tomorrow. My last
package is due monday, so maybe some pics monday.

I also do not like the box it came in. Its too long. Why couldn't they box engine and then tender under it.
I have a HO Big Boy boxed like this also. Too damn long for easy storage. Later versions came with engine and then tender under it. Much better way.


----------



## AmFlyer

All my new Lionel AF engines have a manual in the box. Did you buy the Legacy version or the FlyerChief version? If you think the Berkshire box is too big take a look at the Big Boy and Challenger boxes to see how much Lionel has shrunk the S gauge packaging.


----------



## mopac

I got the FlyerChief version. Do they come with a manual?
Should I call Lionel or Charles Ro?


----------



## AmFlyer

Mine did but it was last years model. I think you should contact Ro. By the way, the iPhone App for FlyerChief has functionality not included on the remote packaged with the engine.


----------



## mopac

I don't have an I Phone.

I called Charles Ro this morning. They were zero help.
I called Lionel. Talked to Katy. She was wonderful. Very helpful. She is sending me
what she called a copy of the manual. That will be fine. And she is sending me some smoke fluid. She understood I needed to know how many drops of smoke fluid I needed to put in the engine. So can't power up the locomotive yet. I guess I could turn off smoke switch. But I will wait till I go over the manual. I did get a manual with my GP 9s.

ITS PICTURE DAY
We have some sun today.
I will get them posted in a bit. It wll take some time to take things out of their box and put back in.
2 more cars to arrive today.


----------



## AmFlyer

If you are using the dropper in the engine box then put in 20 drops and let it sit for an hour. Put in another 10 and power it up. I recommend against Supersmoke, it seems too viscous for these smoke units. Challenger, Lionel or Megasteam all seem ok.


----------



## mopac

I have some Lionel Premium smoke fluid. Working on pics.


----------



## mopac

Ok, Pic time.

These 2 cars arrived today. A 2 car NYC lot.


----------



## mopac

Next is my new Berkshire locomotive.


----------



## AmFlyer

Way to go! I like them all.


----------



## mopac

Next, a 5 car NKP lot. Nice caboose.


----------



## mopac

Next are my new NKP GP 9s. I think I will like these.






















Thats it !!!


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, there may be no stopping you now. I have the reefer and the caboose. Some of those Lionel cabooses do not roll at all. First set the gauge on the wheels to the correct distance, then lube the axle ends and the axles at the wiper contact area. I also carefully bend the wipers down just a little so they are not as tight against the axles.. They then roll better.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the info on the cabooses. Thats the problem with my Lionel passenger cars I have. If I bend the copper strip down all the way the cars roll great. Did you have any luck with finding that 2nd Christmas set at your son's place? I might still be interested in it. Oh, and by the way, I have welded my mail box closed. No more engines or rolling stock
for a long time. I am done and have enough.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sounds like you will be limited to sellers that ship with UPS and FedEx!
The mystery and location of a second Christmas set has been solved. My son has the separate sale set which is different engine and cars, the engine is below. What happened was the seller at the train show had two sets, one opened and one sealed. When we left the show I decided to only buy the sealed set and passed up the opened set. It took the two of us talking about that train show day at the Del Mar Fairgrounds for it to all return to my memory. Unfortunately I only own the one set.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for looking into a second set. I will watch for one on ebay. This would be the time of year
for one to show up.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, what can I say? You got some nice stuff. NYC and NKP. What's not to like? I especially like your Berkshire and the NKP GP 9's. Great color, especially those tiger stripe ends. I remember those GP 9's from when I was a kid. I gotta get me that NYC tank car and covered hopper! I have the NKP 48510 gondola and the NYC 9005 TOFC car.. The engine will have to wait a bit. I was ready to throw down the money right after Tom mentioned those and I looked at one. Very impressive engine. However, life got in the way and I had to spend money on something else more pressing. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Those r all great looking like them .
Al


----------



## mopac

Thanks Al. Thanks Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Need to bring this thread back to the top of the page. I was running trains this afternoon and the low winter sun was shining in the windows. 
First picture is one of the PRR Mikado’s I just got back from Carl Tuveson with his latest smoke improvements. The second and third show a pair of Lionel AF Reading cars with two different road numbers, then a PRR REA Reefer and a Wabash boxcar.


----------



## AmFlyer

One more in the yard.


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## alaft61ri

Nice cars and really nice smoke


----------



## AFGP9

Nice layout pictures Tom. Love the smoke volume. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

They do look good Tom. I saw one of those PRR box cars on ebay. I want one.
It was a Railway Express Agency car also. I guess I had better take a grinder to the weld I did on my
mail box. I have a car coming Monday. Its a red D&H covered hopper. Watching for a PRR covered
hopper. I was watching one and it got a little higher than I wanted to pay.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Guys. Mopac, you will need a really big freight yard on that future layout!


----------



## mopac

Tom, you are correct. I have more cars than I can use at any given time. LOL, I got another one in the mail today. 6-48609 D&H covered hopper. Made in 1993. New in a nice box. 22.00 with free shipping. It arrived 2 days earlier than expected. A rarity. 3 days shipping from sending post office to my mailbox. It used to be the norm but not so much lately. It came from Arkansas.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks like you are adding some eastern roads to your inventory.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice


----------



## AFGP9

Digging through a box today I came across these 2 cars. I knew had them but couldn't find them. They were where they shouldn't have been of course. I don't know why the white lettering on the 736 didn't turn out white. Oh well. The lettering is really a nice bright white. I have the correct control button and the track trip as well.

Kenny

736736


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice cars! the lettering on the 736 looks white on my monitor.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Tom. Also glad to know that the lettering looks white. In the photos I took, the letters are white and when I transferred the pictures from my phone to the computer folder also. When I transferred from the folder to the Picture of The Day site, the lettering looks pale on my screen so I thought that would be what would be seen by others on their monitors. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice


----------



## mopac

Nice looking MoPac cattle cars Kenny.

Well, I have a new car coming. Not excited about it. Looking back, not sure why I put a bid in on it.
I have wanted a nice looking C&NW caboose. That is not what is coming. It is a C&NW caboose.
6-48718. A real plain jane. I have seen ones I liked. I just bid the opening bid of 29.99. Evidently no
body else wanted it. So watch what you bid on, you might win it. I will show a pic when it gets here.
I wanted a caboose for the 282 C&NW AF steamer I had as a kid. I have another 282 so I still need
a caboose for my original 282.


----------



## alaft61ri

This is my 322 w sit in it has the belloews for the smoke not bad shape needs good cleaning. Took it apart last night need to replace fingers. So far that as far as i got.


----------



## AmFlyer

When I was a kid all my cabooses said "Reading" on the side and I never gave it any thought. My cousin had a newer set and its caboose said "American Flyer Lines" on the side, I liked mine better.
Now that we are older we want almost prototypical accuracy and like you I want matching engine and caboose roadnames. For only $15 more you could have ordered a new American Models C&NW yellow/green Bay Window caboose.
I just looked a eBay and see a 48718 for $69! No Way!


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks like it will take some time and some disassembly to get the 322 all clean.


----------



## AFGP9

Although I like the idea of matching cabooses to the matching engine, I only have 3 because I haven't really dove into that end of things yet. I did venture out side Gilbert to get PRR, New Haven, and NYC cabooses to match my Gilbert engines. Otherwise I have unintentionally acquired 11 of the A/F Lines, American Flyer, and Reading cabooses. I have a Union Pacific caboose that I could match to a 372 GP7 UP. I also have a Southern Pacific Bay Window so I guess I should buy a SP cab forward engine?

Al, I forgot to mention your newest project. You can't go wrong with that 322 Hudson as a starting point. Looks like it has good bones to start with. I got too many engine projects not started on yet but I would never pass up any Hudson no matter the condition. You can never have too many Hudson's. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Or get the AM Southern Pacific Pacific, it would be much cheaper. River Raisin has three SP P-10's in stock, a steal at $2619!
Lionel has made a surprising variety of road names in cabooses over the last 35 years.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Nice looking MoPac cattle cars Kenny.
> 
> Well, I have a new car coming. Not excited about it. Looking back, not sure why I put a bid in on it.
> I have wanted a nice looking C&NW caboose. That is not what is coming. It is a C&NW caboose.
> 6-48718. A real plain jane. I have seen ones I liked. I just bid the opening bid of 29.99. Evidently no
> body else wanted it. So watch what you bid on, you might win it. I will show a pic when it gets here.
> I wanted a caboose for the 282 C&NW AF steamer I had as a kid. I have another 282 so I still need
> a caboose for my original 282.


mopac, I have been guilty of just throwing out a bid for the fun of it on something to see where the bidding would go and the bidding went nowhere. I now own whatever those items were. So I know what you mean. That was a long time ago when I was actively buying on eBay. I learned to not play games. Now on the rare times I do bid on eBay, I am careful and bid on only what I want really want. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Or get the AM Southern Pacific Pacific, it would be much cheaper. River Raisin has three SP P-10's in stock, a steal at $2619!
> Lionel has made a surprising variety of road names in cabooses over the last 35 years.


Tom to be honest, I would never spend $2619 on any engine. Out of my budget and price range. I have checked River Raisin's SP engines. All very nice. As far as AM, I looked at a GP35 Rio Grande which would work considering the merger. The also I saw a Cotton Belt steamer for 499.95. The AM Pacific looks like a possibility but they don't show any on their web site so I will have to check Des Plains Hobbies. Before I do any of that though, I want one of those Berks like mopac has. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I would not spend that much either. A different model for a different operator than I am.


----------



## AmFlyer

The AM SP looks like this.


----------



## mopac

That SP steamer looks good. Small but good. Kenny, I was watching videos on Legacy Berks.
They are nice. They are at least a couple hundreds more than flyerchief. As far as looks, they
do have metal handrails on engine and tender. flyerchief has molded handrails. One thing I like
on the Legacy is they have an engineer and fireman. The lighted marker lights. A backup light on
tender. Some of this I can add to mine. Like people in the cab. Legacy has lighted firebox and cab light.
More sounds and better smoke unit. But you have to cut it off somewhere.
I do not regret my purchase. Just wanted to let you know .


----------



## alaft61ri

That steamer is verysharp looking. I hve a foolish question i was looking at a new steamer on charles ro i that the name someone on the forum mentioned the name. Anyway
Can those engines run on the original af track and use the orignal transformer. Also here is a pic of the 768 gulf i repaint cleand the tanks and bought the parts new house rails ladders. Etc. Also i mesed up on one decal


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The AM SP looks like this.
> 
> 
> View attachment 549587
> View attachment 549588





AmFlyer said:


> The AM SP looks like this.
> 
> 
> View attachment 549587
> View attachment 549588





mopac said:


> That SP steamer looks good. Small but good. Kenny, I was watching videos on Legacy Berks.
> They are nice. They are at least a couple hundreds more than flyerchief. As far as looks, they
> do have metal handrails on engine and tender. flyerchief has molded handrails. One thing I like
> on the Legacy is they have an engineer and fireman. The lighted marker lights. A backup light on
> tender. Some of this I can add to mine. Like people in the cab. Legacy has lighted firebox and cab light.
> More sounds and better smoke unit. But you have to cut it off somewhere.
> I do not regret my purchase. Just wanted to let you know .


Thanks for the information mopac. I knew the Legacy version would have more and better functions simply because it is Legacy. I can live with the version you got. 

Tom that's a nice looking SP. Thanks for the photo of it and the box. Gotta check that out. 

Al that's a good restoration from what you first showed. Decals are not a big deal. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Al, those engines that are flyerchief will run on AF original track. And can be run with a transformer.
Your Gulf depot looks good.


----------



## alaft61ri

Thanks


----------



## alaft61ri

On the 322 the smoke unit has the bellows is there somethine i can put on them so they wont dry out. Thanks Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Any S gauge engine made by Lionel will run on all Gilbert original track. Does not matter if the electronics are none, FlyerChief or Legacy. Also, Legacy engines run well in conventional transformer mode and many of the sounds are available as well. They also smoke well because in conventional the Legacy smoke setting defaults to High.
If it is made by AM then the type of wheels need to checked to assure they are high rail. As can be seen on the box for my AM Pacific, some were made with scale wheels and these will not run well on Gilbert track. They will run on Lionel FasTrack.


----------



## alaft61ri

Ok thankyou.


----------



## AmFlyer

I am by no means an expert in SIT bellows and repairs. My first reaction would be if it has not dried out in the past 73 years I would leave it alone.


----------



## alaft61ri

Sounds good to me kinda thought soo but wasnt sure . old saying goes if it ain't broke don't fix it. 
Al


----------



## mopac

Al, on your Gulf depot. Are those the tanks that was on the base or did you take them off of cars. Your paint job looks good. Decals are a little hard to work with, at least for me they are.. I have seen the Gulf decals and the Gulf stickers. I am not big on stickers though. I have a Santa Fe car with stickers. They are not aging well. My (can't remember the number, maybe 983) C&NW car I recently purchased has a sticker. Its original. Decals look nice but you need to coat them with something clear. In a month or 2 they will dry out and curl right off unless you coat them with something. Your train shop should be able to tell you what to coat the decals with. I used to build plastic models and the decals would curl.


----------



## alaft61ri

Your right with the decals forgot about that . and on the tanks those are the ones that came with it . thankyou


----------



## AmFlyer

Over on the other forum there is a thread that includes a video interview of Angela Trotta Thomas. Angela is a fantastic painter who specializes in toy train memories. Mostly, as you would expect, Lionel. Someone asked if she would ever do some American Flyer paintings. Angela has done some, I have two of them hanging in my train room. One is in Angela's book on p27. Here is a picture taken in my train room that shows her Circus Set painting. This picture is taken looking back at the entrance. All the other walls in the train room have backdrops on them.


----------



## mopac

Nice paintings Tom. Just curious. Do you own the actual painting or a print. I have some prints, no actual paintings. Most of my HO locomotives are models of actual locomotives. I have found some nice photos of my engines online. I have many MoPac engines. Many MoPac engines have a "screaming eagle" on the side. I have one that the "screaming eagle" is in a different spot than the others. I found a photo of the road number I have and sure enough the "screaming eagle" is in the different spot. it is the only engine that was done like that. I thought that was cool. I hope to print some of these photos on photo paper, put in a
frame and hang in the train room. Gilbert did not bother with actual road numbers so no photos online of actual engine.

You can find some cool photos of NPR #765 online. Did you ever get your 765? I still have
not received my manual and smoke fluid from Lionel.


----------



## AmFlyer

My two paintings by Angela are numbered limited edition prints that I purchased from her at a train show so they are hand signed and dedicated to me. A commissioned original painting from her would be in 5 figures. I have about 25 "original" Gilbert ads from magazines and Sunday papers of the '50's. Some are framed and hang in my office.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice paintings and train room.


----------



## mopac

Cool stuff Tom. I have a #4005 UP big boy in HO. I got a print of a real photo of 4005 in action from
a forum member here. He wouldn't even let me pay postage on it. 4005 has not run in about 60 years.

Side note. 4005 was the only big boy that any of her crew were killed. 2 crew members
were killed when 4005 derailed and laid over on its side. It was repaired and put back in
service. 4005 is in a museum somewhere. I think maybe Denver.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks. Here is a closer picture of the Circus painting with, unfortunately, my reflection included. I do not have a polarizing attachment for my iPhone to eliminate the reflections from the glass. You can see only 353 prints were made of the original painting.
Since Nickel Plate Road 765 has been discussed and pictured here I am including a picture of a painting of 765 done by a local Pittsburgh artist. This hangs in the hallway leading to the train room.


----------



## mopac

That circus painting is too cool. Thanks for showing a close up of it. On my little laptop screen I was not seeing it well.
765 is a cool one also. Big boy 4006 is parked about 3 miles from me. I wish they would get it under cover.


----------



## alaft61ri

Circus is cool you look like your part of the picture. Like the other one too.


----------



## AmFlyer

The online pictures of 4006 make it look to be in great shape. When I visited Steamtown 4012 looked ok. When 4014 was here at the LA Fairgrounds it looked awful but now is new and running again. I think only 4005 and 4017 are displayed indoors. I suppose it always comes down to a matter of available funding.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice Angela Trotta Thomas circus painting Tom. CTT ran an article or maybe two on her paintings and her life story up to that date. It was a while ago. She is a tremendous artist. You are fortunate to been able to get two of her prints. I have a lot of old Life, Boy's Life, and Look magazines from the 30's through the 50's. I have found a few pictures which I cut out with intentions of framing. Not yet. I also have several newspaper articles from the local newspaper regarding the old Chicago & Alton/GM&O/Illinois Gulf/SP now UP yard west of Bloomington, IL that I have referenced here on the Forum, when they had the the sprawling steam engine repair shops there. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> That circus painting is too cool. Thanks for showing a close up of it. On my little laptop screen I was not seeing it well.
> 765 is a cool one also. Big boy 4006 is parked about 3 miles from me. I wish they would get it under cover.


So mopac, do you live near the Museum of Transportation then? I was there many years ago before any of it was covered. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I do live close. Much of it is covered now. They have some interesting pieces there. Some one of a kind. I have been in the cab of 4006. Lots of valves and gauges. If the engineer seat is original, not comfortable at all. They have an auto museum inside a building. They have one of the Chrysler turbine cars. And a Bobby Darren dream car. An aerotrain. Some old passenger cars. Frisco #1522 lives there. Check out 1522 on You Tube. I use to see it out on the rails all the time. It has bearing problems now and no money so has probably done its last excursion. I try to go once a year to the museum.


----------



## AmFlyer

If I lived that close to the rail museum I would try to visit once/year as well.
Kenny, I have seven of the old ads framed plus two of the ATT paintings. The cost of framing exceeds the acquisition cost of the items. I have another 20 ads not framed, mostly for that reason.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is the second AF painting done by ATT. Once again I am part of the artwork in the reflection.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> If I lived that close to the rail museum I would try to visit once/year as well.
> Kenny, I have seven of the old ads framed plus two of the ATT paintings. The cost of framing exceeds the acquisition cost of the items. I have another 20 ads not framed, mostly for that reason.


Yes Tom I know all too well the cost of framing. That is why when I framed some old car pictures and AC Delco, Fram, etc. parts adds for my garage walls, I did it myself. I have acquired several picture frames of various sizes, plenty of clear plastic film sheets used in the printing industry which I got free, and poster board from Hobby Lobby and mounted the pictures. No It wasn't easy. The fact that some frames were in various stages of discoloration or had paint/varnish peeling added to the over all look since everything pictured is old. I saved the nicer ones for when I got around to mounting the train ads. I got one mounted of the SP Sunset Limited. I'll get a picture of it.

Both of those paintings are fantastic. I have to say though, I really like the one of the boy looking through the window at the trains. Brings back memories when I was doing the same thing at department stores in down town Bloomington, IL like Woolworth's, Wards, Penney's, Kresge's, (anybody know what that store became?), and other stores. Most all of them had trains in there windows with other toys.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, I do live close. Much of it is covered now. They have some interesting pieces there. Some one of a kind. I have been in the cab of 4006. Lots of valves and gauges. If the engineer seat is original, not comfortable at all. They have an auto museum inside a building. They have one of the Chrysler turbine cars. And a Bobby Darren dream car. An aerotrain. Some old passenger cars. Frisco #1522 lives there. Check out 1522 on You Tube. I use to see it out on the rails all the time. It has bearing problems now and no money so has probably done its last excursion. I try to go once a year to the museum.


Mopac, that car museum was there as you describe it when I was there plus a metal building with a couple of airplanes. All of the engines were outside in the weather. I heard that things were covered now but haven't wanted to travel the 200 miles to check things out. I too sat in that 4006 seat and was amazed at how long the engine was and what the engineer and fireman's view was of that long boiler was like. I gotta get back down there. Nothing stopping me but that long 400 mile round trip. There was a time 200 miles was nothing. Now days.....

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I do not have any of the old automobile items. Probably a good thing. Framing pictures correctly for use inside the house is not easy, at least for me. Just cutting the matting correctly and getting the gold or silver edges just right is in the way too hard category for me.


----------



## mopac

Kenny, 200 miles is alot to us now. My family has 17 acres right on the Lake of the Ozarks. I love that place and really miss the bass fishing. I used to go there a couple times a month. Its about 175 miles from here. I have not been there in a few years. So I know what you mean. I have not gone there since the wife died and that was 5 years ago. She was my fishing buddy. I have not had my boat in the water since she passed. Time is passing me up. I do still want a S scale layout though. I have engines I have not run yet. Like that nice 293 I got from flyernut.


----------



## AmFlyer

Do not let too much time pass you by. Right now is a good time to stay home and just get new things out of the mailbox or off the front porch. Next year at this time the risks will be much less. Now is a good time to create that layout. Were I living alone I would put the layout in the living room and make a bedroom into an A/V room.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac the time does seem to be passing by faster than I like. 2 of my grand children attending college and another set to go next year was my "time is quickly slipping away" wake up call. You lost your fishing buddy and I lost my excursion train and train museum buddy 5 years ago too.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I do not have any of the old automobile items. Probably a good thing. Framing pictures correctly for use inside the house is not easy, at least for me. Just cutting the matting correctly and getting the gold or silver edges just right is in the way too hard category for me.


Like I said, it wasn't easy. Probably why I haven't done any lately. A lot of wasted matting and poster board. And patience. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Tom, I found a car you should probably get, if you don't already have it. Its a
Angela Trotta car. Its called "Circus Comes to Town". About 1/3 of the car is
your circus print. Pretty cool. 6-48831. Its at Charles Ro. 50.95. its a "Merry
Christmas" car. In the Christmas S gauge section.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, you sure did. I do not recall ever seeing that car. Somehow I must have just passed it by when looking at the 2012 catalog since I did buy a car from that issue. Here is the catalog cut.


----------



## AmFlyer

Bought it!


----------



## Mikeh49

I'm resurrecting the earlier reefer submissions with an interesting (to me) National Dairy Despatch insulated box car. I don't know the year of issue for this, but Tom probably does.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is number 6-48805, cataloged in 1990. It is an insulated boxcar, but not a reefer with refrigeration equipment. At least as far as the protype that was modeled. It is a good looking car.


----------



## mopac

Cool beans Tom. I figured since you have a signed limited print, this car would be a must have.

MkeH, nice car, looks good.


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## mopac

Tom, I had never heard of Angela Trotta till you brought her up. I am seeing her work all
over now. I got an email from TrainWorld, they are having a big promotion of her work on
O scale cars. LOL, not a sale, just a promotion of many O scale cars with her work on them.
They are 65.00 a piece. You might want to look just to see them.


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## AmFlyer

She has done a lot of O scale cars, you should watch the video. I have a large book she published that has most of her work in it.


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## AFGP9

Mopac, if you have have saved your Classic Toy Trains back issues, they ran a multi page spread on her work and her life story. No I don't know when it was. Also there are usually ads in the magazine regarding her work. 

Kenny


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## mopac

Tom, thanks for the video. I feel I know her now. She is a train person. And a great artist.
That Meegan is a sharp cookie also.

Kenny, I did not do Classic Toy Trains. I did Model RailRoader. Had stacks of them.


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## AFGP9

Mopac I forgot you spent your formative years in HO before getting into American Flyer so you would have had no need to buy CTT. I have so many years of Model Railroader you wouldn't believe plus CTT, S Gaugian, almost back to the beginning, and other assorted titles. That's besides the years of Hot Rod, Car Craft, and other assorted hot rod/racing magazines. Yep I got a fortune just in magazines. I don't know if I've ever mentioned it but I began in HO too since I never had the room like I have now to build a large AF layout. While I was into HO, I was also collecting Gilbert AF stuff just like you are now. Always waiting for the day when I would have the room for a sizable Flyer layout. Of course my racing career got in the way further delaying the Flyer layout. I still got all of my HO stuff too. All pre-DCC. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, you mentioned Car Craft. I have some I bought dating back to 1959. I was only 9 then but into cars. I bought my first car, a 57 chevy, when I was 12. Its not this way now but I had my full driving license at 13. With that 57 I thought I was somebody. At 17 I bought my 65 GTO. Tri power and 4 speed. LOL, then I knew I was somebody. I mowed yards to get that 57 chevy. $3.00 a yard.


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## AFGP9

Mopac I have owned several Chevy muscle cars, 5 '57 Chevy's plus later 2 Plymouth GTX's. The one car I never got was a Tri power GTO, 4 speed. In 1964 when they first came out, I beat it to a Pontiac dealer and there on the showroom floor was the exact car I had envisioned owning. It was a dark blue with white interior post car. I had read in Car Craft and Hot Rod where a post car body would run a better ET due to a slightly more ridged body which translated into less body flex than a hard top. Since I was already drag racing a '57 Chevy post car, great. I'll take it! Nope. I could not get it insured. I was 17 at the time. The insurance co. said they would not insure that car no matter what. I found high risk unaffordable insurance. So I had to walk away from that car. Ironically Chevy built a lowly Chevy II, later renamed Nova, which they would insure, I bought 1965 SS, 327, 350 hp 4 speed that was quicker than any GTO I ever raced on the street or dragstrip. They happily insured it and at a super low rate just because the name, Chevy II. I guess they didn't care about the SS designation. I must say most GTO guys thought they were somebody, as you say. I had to humble them with my cheap Chevy II. lol

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

That is a lot of cars. When I was 17 I was away at college. Freshmen were required to live on campus and Freshmen were not permitted to have cars on campus. That made life easier in a way. At 21 with a degree and a job it was possible to insure pretty much anything. Those cars were a lot of fun but we are living in the golden age of performance cars right now.


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## mopac

Cool cars Kenny. You are correct, the 327 Chevy II s were very quick. Much lighter than my GTO. Not many years ago I found out that Pontiac only made 1500 1965 GTOs like mine. Seemed like that is not very many. My goat had a very rare option on it. Transiorized ignition. Common on cars 1972 and newer. Not 1965. it went out on me and no one knew how to fix it. I ended up putting a points distributor in it.

Tom, I too at 17 was off to college. I had to live in a dorm but I could have a car. I will
always remember guys waking me up late at night wanting to go riding in my GTO.
They would say we got gas money. They called my car the Space Ship.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Cool cars Kenny. You are correct, the 327 Chevy II s were very quick. Much lighter than my GTO. Not many years ago I found out that Pontiac only made 1500 1965 GTOs like mine. Seemed like that is not very many. My goat had a very rare option on it. Transiorized ignition. Common on cars 1972 and newer. Not 1965. it went out on me and no one knew how to fix it. I ended up putting a points distributor in it.
> 
> Tom, I too at 17 was off to college. I had to live in a dorm but I could have a car. I will
> always remember guys waking me up late at night wanting to go riding in my GTO.
> They would say we got gas money. They called my car the Space Ship.


Mopac, if you didn't have that GTO, would those guys have woke you up to ride around in an Catalina? There is a town 10 miles from me where I lived for 35 years called Pontiac, IL. In that town there is a car museum. Can you guess what cars the museum contains? Right you are! Pontiacs! The guy who owns it, is from Kansas. He is a Pontiac expert. I got to know him when he first moved here. The actual name is "Pontiac-Oakland Museum". Oakland being the forerunner of Pontiac. So I don't get too far a field from trains and anger some of the more sensitive Forum people, Google the museum name. 
I learned about that transistor ignition from a Pontiac-Buick dealer in town that had a reputation as a performance leaning dealer since they stocked and sold Pontiac and Buick muscle cars with regular cars and also had a dealership drag race car, a '65 GTO like you had. As you say, that option was so rare that nobody knew much about it. One of the mechanics there had training with it. They later had a '69 Ram Air IV GTO drag race car. I drove a '69 Ram AIR IV GTO 4 speed with a FACTORY ordered 4:56 gear. It had been prepped so I drove it straight off the lot. A test drive. The owner's son and I were friends. What a ride that was! I even considered buying it. Then common sense kicked in. I had just ordered a 427 L88 crate engine and didn't have any extra cash to pay for much else even though I was working in construction then because that was the only way I knew to make good money to race on. 
While you and Tom were off to college getting a degree, I was also getting my degree--in drag racing, since that was what I was going to be--a professional drag racer. You couldn't get a degree for building and racing cars 50+ years ago anywhere but the drag strip. Of course now days you can get a degree in any area of any kind of racing you want. Wyoming Tech comes to mind but I know there are others. 

To circle back to trains, does anybody know why there are so many towns on a railroad 10 miles, and a few, 15 miles apart? There is no prize for the correct answer. Just an "Atta Boy". 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I do not know the answer to your question. But it probably has to do with fuel or water.


----------



## AmFlyer

In the really old days they also had telegraph offices at short intervals for train movement orders.
I test drove a 1969 Judge with the 366hp Ram Air, it was fast but was not the 370hp Ram Air IV. Ended up buying a 1969 442 which was a bit slower but I felt was the better car. I was not a drag racer, no one who wanted to win would campaign a long stroke Olds engined car. I sold my final 442 shortly after I purchased my first V12. I was also well into my train collecting at that point.


----------



## mopac

Tom, the 442s were very nice cars. A friend of mine had a beautiful one. In fact he had
an unfortunate accident with it. He did run a stop sign in a subdivision and struck a car.
I came on the scene shortly after it happened. It looked like a minor fender bender but
an 11 year old boy in the other car hit his head on something and was killed. I never saw 
my friend or the 442 again.

On a lighter note. I got my C&NW caboose yesterday. I did not open the box till this morning.
Right off I saw a problem. A one inch piece of the roof corner was broke off. Not in the box.
I went to the ebay pics and sure enough I had missed it. It clearly did show in the pics. Seller
described it as very gently used. Contacted seller and let him know I was not happy. He said
he had not seen it. He was selling a large collection. He has offered me what I paid for the
car as a refund. So I am just out the shipping cost and I keep the caboose. I have another car to be delivered
today and I will get pics. Everything on ebay has always worked out. I don't think I can run the new caboose,
but I can use it for parts. Power trucks and other things.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is an awful story and experience about the 442 owner. 
Maybe you can use the money to get the C&NW caboose you really wanted.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom and mopac, you are both correct! The biggest reason was for water and sometimes fuel. Case in point is the TP&W that runs through the town where I live. It is an east-west route. Not a curve in the entire length. Coming from Peoria over to Eastern Indiana there is a town every 10 miles except east out of Peoria. There you got 3 towns 15 miles a part. The other railroad that runs north and south through here is the UP. The towns are a little more apart even though there are some that are 10 miles apart from St. Louis to Chicago. I suspect because it was always a class I owned railroad therefore bigger engines with bigger tender capacity. As I have documented here before, Chicago & Alton then GM&O, to Illinois Gulf, to SP and finally UP. Obviously only the Chicago & Alton was the only line to run almost entirely steam until the GM&O transition. Having seen those steamers at the yard and rebuild shops area in Bloomington, IL, the Chicago & Alton steamers setting there during the GM&O take over period were bigger than what the TP&W ran. Yes the telegraph was key for train movement too at the depot/offices.
Atta Boys!!

The 442's were nice cars for sure Tom. I think of all the A body cars from all the GM brands, they had the best compromise between performance and comfort. Some Buick Grand Sport owners might disagree. That RAM AIR IV I drove made no attempt at being a nice riding car. It was built for just what it did well--drag racing. I immersed myself in cars and full on drag racing as much as you were into the American Flyer collecting Tom. Looking back I wouldn't change a thing about my drag racing and keeping track of each manufactures muscle car production types. My only regret was being semi-pro at drag racing. Almost got to the pro level. The only thing that stopped me was MONEY! I spent money like it was water trying to keep up and it still wasn't enough in spite of winning every now and then. No, nobody can make a living from racing even though I had sponsorship money and my own money invested. At best you hope to break even. The ROI isn't great for sure.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I did not think I would like this caboose any way. I will get one I want later.

I have other stories stuck in my head from cars. Yes, they can be killers.
I was not the only person to have a GTO at my high school. 2 guys that
I did not know were out in one of the GTOs from my school. Driving too
fast and centered into a pole. Pushed the engine into passenger compartment.
Killed both of the guys. I saw that car also. Engines do not come back into
passenger areas anymore. They are designed to fold back under the cars now.
Cars are much safer today. That GTO engine was sitting on the 2 front seats.
How it got through the firewall I do not know.


----------



## mopac

Early steam engines had very small tenders. So I figured it was about water and fuel.
And those towns would not be there except for the railroads.


----------



## mopac

Kenny, in your drag travels did you ever come across a Don Gay Pontiac?
I do not remember if it was a super stock or a funny car. Don Gay owned
a performance dealership in Texas. It was near the dragstrip I ran at. I never
saw his car at the strip. I have seen it on TV. One of his mechanics set up
my rear end gears. I went from a 3:23 to a 3:90. Close to perfect for my car.
I was at about top end at end of the quarter. Those Pontiacs had no revs
like a 327 would do. At about 5,000 rpm my valves would start floating.
One thing my car needed that I never did was an electric fuel pump. I would
run out of fuel in 4th gear at top speed.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, you are so right about those towns not existing without the railroads. 
As to Don Gay, I did see his cars over the years when they were involved in drag racing. At that same time there was also Arnie "The Farmer" Beswick Pontiac's running too. I got to know him a little bit sense he has a farm about 150 miles north of me. Yes he was really a farmer who just happened to like drag racing. His racing facility is bigger than his machine shed. He went from regular bodied GTO's and even a Tempest station wagon to Funny Cars. He used to make yearly visits to Pontiac, IL when that museum I spoke about had a yearly Pontiac only car show. He would bring that Tempest and a regular Funny Car for the show. I got to talk to him there often. He is 86 now and didn't make it down last year. Me, the museum owner, and a couple of friends used to go to his farm just to visit. He has all of his old race cars plus several regular GTO's. HIs machine shed building that he kept his newest combine and 3 tractors plus other machinery burned down 10 years ago. His comment? "At least I had enough sense to build the race shop building far enough away so it didn't burn down too. I can replace the machinery but not those race cars". He did have 3 race cars in the machinery building that were burned as well. He said they were never good handling cars so no big loss. He is quite a character. 

That 3:90 gear choice you made sounds like it was a perfect match. If you matched the engine rpms to the end of the strip, that's all you needed. Better than running out of gear and rpms and not be at the end of the quarter as sometimes happens. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I do know of Arnie Beswick. I do have a diecast car of one of his race cars. "The Farmer". You got to love it. As I remember my diecast car is a green 65 GTO.


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## AmFlyer

I never met any racers with the exception of a distant in-law who raced a 1967 GTO in the Detroit area up until five years ago. It was an 8 or 9 second car, so not streetable. It has been sold.
Here is my last gasp at a muscle car, a 2000 Mustang GT manual. It sounded and drove great but it sounded much faster than it was. I sold it after a few years to a guy at work who just had to have it.


----------



## mopac

Tom, that is a good looking Mustang. Unique color. I sold 2000 Mustangs and I do not remember that color. Maybe a special 35th Anniversary color.
Looks good.


----------



## AmFlyer

It was a good looking car, I saw it on the dealers lot and bought it on an impulse. For sure that color was not common but I do not recall it being a special order. The black pinstriping along the top of the panels and the Mustang lettered on the back of the rocker panels and the back of the trunk lid were unique. Likely added by the dealer. The interior was charcoal.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, did you also sell SHO's? This Mustang lived in our DC townhouse for the 2 years I was located in DC, it shared the 2 car garage with a 1998 SHO, all silver, interior and exterior. That was the Gen 3 with the 3.4L V8.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom nice Mustang. I've never seen that color before. You can tell that car has seen a lot of garage time due to the great looking condition the top is in and no color fade. Seems like every black convertible that hasn't been kept in a garage fades and loses it's even texture. The charcoal interior color just adds to the over all sharp look. I would have to agree with you about the dealer adding the the pin stripping and the Mustang script on the rocker. The dealer where I worked had an outside company that would come in and pinstripe Camaros and pick up trucks often. I remember he had 6 IROC Camaros all done a different way all in the same day.
I have to agree with you Tom on the point you made about today's performance cars. Every American manufacturer's performance model seems to have a base of 450 hp and most of the time have offerings above 500 hp, and generally get 28-30 or more mpg, I am amazed even though it is common place. I could easily get 500-600+ hp from a Chevy 427 but more than that took a lot of thinking and work. Now you can plunk your money down and get 700+ hp. Throw in the superior handling, there is no comparison to the '60's and early '70's muscle car era. 4 cylinder 2.0 engines with 380hp? Who would have thunk it? FI, turbo charging and great handling. In my opinion, the best value for your money is the C6 and later Corvette. When you study the engineering in that car, and now the C8 version, it is an amazing car. Not to mention 28 mpg. Most foreign cars at that level are at the $200,000+ price point. I just watched a Jay's Garage episode where Chevrolet brought one of two currently built ZR1 Corvettes. Jay drove the car with the engineer somewhere with a camera mounted inside pointing to the speedometer. 204 and change. That ZR1 is due out this coming spring the engineer said. No hp ratings were offered when Jay asked and no price either. Safe to say north of $120,000. Still a bargain for that caliber of car.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Tom, I did sell SHOs. Their Yamaha engines were beautiful. Very smooth and I never heard of any trouble with them.
Their big claim to fame was all that motor and very little torque steer. A problem with powerful front wheel drive cars.

Kenny, whats not to like with the vettes. Worth the money. I have always wanted one but so far there has not been one in my drive. I think I have spent enough at the casino to have paid
for one. A nice one.


----------



## AmFlyer

I had two SHO's, a late production 1991 Gen I and the 1998. The Mustang was always garaged, had to put in in the driveway for the pictures. Shortly before the pictures were taken I had just driven the car from DC to the house in SoCal.
As Jay's show points out we live in the golden age of performance cars, many of them require a lot of Gold. Kenny I agree with your point about the Corvette but it seems funny to call $120,000 for a car a bargain.
Mopac, the SHO's had minimal to no torque steer. In the mid '70's I owned two Olds Toronado's with 455's. Some hard throttle from a stop and the car would start to change lanes to the right.


----------



## AmFlyer

A random picture from a past layout. The 586F wayside station plus a 342AC and an AM UP E8. Snow village buildings and two AHL trucks are in the background.


----------



## mopac

Got a couple new cars in the mail box in last couple days. First is a C&NW caboose.
It came with a broken corner of roof. Seller refunded what I paid for car. So out shipping.























Next, I got a box car I have liked. Boys At The Crossing Gate.
I think this car was only 9.95 plus shipping.
And I think I will run these 2 cars together. Same graphics. These cars just left the Gilbert factory
loaded with new train sets for the stores for the upcoming Christmas Season.


----------



## mopac

Tom, nice shot of the 342AC with the E8 sticking its nose in the shot.


----------



## AmFlyer

The broken caboose roof is not as apparent as I expected it would be. The black underneath the black helps a lot. You could run that on a layout and it would not be visible from five feet away. It looks better in person with the yellow equipment/battery box between the trucks. The 48484 never called to me but it does belong with the 24550 TOFC.


----------



## mopac

Tom, if had the piece I believe I could have repaired it. At least good enough to run. You are correct, with the
black under the roof the broken corner is not terrible. When the car was dropped to the floor, it not only broke the corner of the roof, it broke off the rear coupler. Not that big of a deal on a caboose. And no its not a real bad looking caboose, but not a good looking C&NW caboose. Needs some dark green on it. The caboose is worth what I now paid for it.


----------



## Mikeh49

Exactly, what you paid. I don't know how a reputable seller could have missed that broken roof. Not to mention the coupler. I hope you gave appropriate feedback.


----------



## mopac

The seller was actually shocked he did not notice it also. He immediately offered my money back.
The auction vanished from my list and I do not think there will be any feedback.


----------



## AmFlyer

Anyone can make a mistake. The seller cured the issue. Were it me and I had the opportunity I would give positive feedback. It sounds like that is moot since the auction was cancelled. Time to find the green and yellow version.


----------



## mopac

From my communication with seller I do believe he just missed it. It was not really his car. It was part of a large lot he had bought and was selling. He made it right and I was not going to burn him on feedback. I told him so. He has perfect feedback.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I think this is the caboose you want.


----------



## AmFlyer

When I took a second look at this caboose catalog cut I noticed something hilarious. The second bullet item claims their cabooses have plastic removable coal loads!!! Lionel needs proofreaders that understand trains.


----------



## mopac

Tom, that caboose is better than the one I bought but still no green on it.
I proved mistakes happen. Something was under my chair. It was the manual
to my new Berkshire. Somehow it fell out of the box and I did not see it go under my chair.
I feel bad but mistakes do happen. There was no smoke fluid under the chair.


----------



## mopac

Customer error is a real thing. I got a memo from Ford once stating that their research showed that
new car buyers entered the service centers thinking something on their new car was not working correctly.
80% of the time THEY were not doing something correctly. When we delivered a new car we tried to go over controls as much as possible but it probably is too much too fast for them to remember.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sorry, I thought that new issue had a green roof, I see it does not. Then it has to be this one.


----------



## mopac

LOL, need more green.


----------



## AmFlyer

More green you say??? Here is the MTH version, that is about all the green to be found. Good luck finding one, there may be a few available.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom nice Christmas Scene with that 342AC, and the nose of the UP E8 sticking out. 

Mopac I like that Boys At the Gate box car. Good idea you have there to run those two cars together. Makes a nice combination. 
I came across a 6-48741 C&NW Extended Caboose on eBay. Seller says it is new. It has the same green color as the one in Tom's picture. $55.00+ shipping. I just checked and it is still there. Buy it Now or BO. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Here are some pictures I have mounted on the doors covering the bottom of my layout. The two signs are metal but the picture of the Sunset Limited is an ad cut from an old Saturday Evening Post 
Magazine. Of course I didn't notice that the frame is a little separated in the upper RH corner until after I took the picture. I fixed it after words. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Tom, I guess that Is more of what I had in mind.
I went searching for photos of real C&NW cabooses.
Actually they all were more like the first ones you showed.
I don't know where I got the green thing from.

Kenny, maybe too much coins for me. Seller might not like my offer.

Too much coins. How about this. The flat car with the cannon in a nice Kleer Pak.
Went for 745.00 or so. The car like Train Girl had, but not as nice as hers went for 275.00
no Kleer Pak.


----------



## mopac

Nice framing Tom. They look good.

I bought another rerailer today. Makes 6. Should be good for 3 loops.


----------



## AmFlyer

No one noticed that the word "Together" is misspelled on the MTH caboose in the catalog cut I posted above? They are in more of a need for good proofreaders than Lionel! At least Lionel's error was not on the actual car.
Nice to have the artwork and signs. i remember when those signs were first released.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, 745.00 for a cannon Kleer Pac car is a little steep bordering on the ridiculous. Those cannon cars are costly enough without being A Kleer Pac. I have a set of those Frontier cars and the 50th box car and but no flat car. The cars are not too bad in price but with the original operating cannon are pricey since the odds of finding an actual original cannon are slim to none. I have only seen one at a train show and the seller wanted 250.00. I've got a couple of cannons of the correct size that I got at Gettysburg. One day I am going to buy one of those correct flat cars and stick one of those on the car. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I just went back and looked at that misspelling on the caboose. Yep, time for a better proof reader and people who can spell in general since I'm pretty sure that car passed through more than one set of hands during production. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I put that caboose you found for 55.00 on my watch list. I think it runs till Dec 7.
I don't think it will sell for 55.00. Around Dec 5 I will offer him 30.00 or 35.00 for it. Thats
plenty for a Lionel caboose. If it sells there will be more. I have bought from that seller before.


----------



## mopac

I ran across another car I would like to run with the boys at crossing box car and the TOFC car. Its a single dome tank car with the same red and blue colors. American Flyer Smoke Fluid car. It went higher than I liked, over 50.00. But I will be watching for one cheaper. Its a nice looking car. The stores will need alot of smoke fluid with all those new train sets being delivered.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac your caboose plan sounds like a good one. That Boy's At That Crossing tank car sounds interesting. Can't say I've ever seen one. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I had never seen one either. I do not know what year it is from. But there should be more of them. Its Lionel.

Just did a search. Found another Smoke Fluid car. What a deal, 81.99 buy it now.
I will do a Texas on that one, El Paso. If I passed at 50.00 something on one, not
going for 81.99. LOL. They really should not let the mentally ill on ebay. I really did
not see the blue on this one. But it has the same graphic of a train on it.


----------



## AFGP9

"I will do a Texas on that one, El Paso" Mopac, that is laugh out loud funny. I gotta remember that one. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The 6-48434 Smoke Fluid 1 dome tank car is red and white, the same as the boxes. It was cataloged in 2012. There is also a 6-48440 track cleaning fluid 3 dome tank car, yellow, from the 2016 catalog. I do not know about a boys at the crossing tank car.


----------



## mopac

Tom, the smoke fluid car is close enough to run with those other 2 cars. The red matches and
like I said it has the same train graphic as the other 2 cars. I saw the yellow tank car you mentioned.
The track cleaning fluid car.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is the smoke fluid car I am referring to.


----------



## AmFlyer

I just looked at ebay, uugghh! There is a tuscan 930 (OB) listed for $120!!! Are there really suckers out there? Anyhow, the 6-48741 C&NW EV caboose, 2007, is listed for $59.99, NIB. It is the best looking of the Lionel AF choices. Just buy it and be done with it.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the pic of the smoke fluid car. LOL, I need one.

I agree that caboose is the best choice of Lionel.


----------



## mopac

Just bought and paid for that caboose. I went easy on the seller and took his counter offer of 45.00 plus shipping.
Thanks for finding it Kenny.


----------



## mopac

I stumbled across this old thread of mine from 2016. These are some of the neatest train items I have.
These are HO, sure wish they made them in S scale now. I would have a set. Be sure to watch the video on post # 3.


----------



## AmFlyer

The link seems to be missing.


----------



## mopac

Yes it is. Sorry. My mistake. Try this.









Happy Birthday to me !!!


I ordered something for my birthday. It came today. I guess I should have waited till sept 20 to open it. Couldn't wait, so I will show pics of what came. I have boxed them back up and will open them up again on sept 20. I consider these a "must have" for anyone that runs locomotives UP #844, UP...




www.modeltrainforum.com


----------



## AmFlyer

Those are great products we will never see in S. 
Scale Trains is a top end manufacturer without a doubt. About a year ago the owners were considering making some engines for S gauge. One of the S scale operators I was familiar with was working with them on product plans and specs for an SD40-2 as the first engine. I was contacted to provide input for what a higher end high rail operator would want included to justify purchase. I provided detailed input with a number of must haves, some nice to haves, and thoughts on price points. All in all I was very much encouraging to them to proceed. I think the realities of the smaller maximum volumes in S coupled with the need to provide an option for high rail wheels with traction tires put the project on the back burner. The percentage of sales lost if the engine will not run on Gilbert track can make the effort to enter S not the best use of scarce capital. 
It would be nice if Scale Trains or Fox Valley Models would buy the Showcase Line from MTH but either would be a real long shot.


----------



## mopac

Maybe Scale Trains will try S scale. They would be welcomed by guys like you. They have a great group of guys running the operation. They make great products. Those water tenders are the only ones on the market. As soon as I saw them I had to have a set. They would do a better job on engines than Lionel does. They care more about quality than quantity
They are not a big outfit. They do a great job in HO..


----------



## mopac

Their trains would have to run on Gilbert track or they would not stand the chance of a success. There is not enough of those other S scalers. I have noticed a few O scalers sticking their toes into S scale lately. But on Gilbert track. Scale Trains could bring in
some of their HO customers to S scale. They have a very good name in HO. And yes,
they are big into SD40-2s.

MTH merchandise is being sold (auctioned) off. They are done. Owner retiring. I don't have
a ton of MTH stuff but what I have is nice. They made what I think was a bad business
decision to use their own operating system (DCS) instead of DCC. I avoided them like the
plague until they learned how to play nice with DCC. And they did. Every other manufacture
was DCC compliant from the start of DCC. They tried to start their own world and it did not work. They tried it in O scale also. People did not want to buy 2 or 3 different operating systems.


----------



## AmFlyer

I spent quite a bit of time with the Scale Trains project. River Raisin is proof that a small manufacturer can survive in S building engines and selected cars that require 30" to 38" minimum radius. Those engines cost around $2,600, a very small market. Not really of interest to Scale Trains. Specifying Gilbert track as a requirement, which I did, is the equivalent of saying all the Scale Trains HO products have to operate on 14"R track. That requirement (19"R in S) completely breaks their engine design. It is no longer a scale up of the existing designs from HO. The capital investment required for a complete redesign was a bank breaker, plus the resultant products (things like swinging pilots, shortened steps, reduction of underbody detail) are a deal breaker for the true scale modeler.
While I have no current information I believe entering S scale is no longer in consideration.
The Showcase Line which MTH purchased is a stand alone product catalog of track, freight cars and a few engines. Someone who is already an S gauge manufacturer could buy the rights to make and sell those products. Unfortunately I doubt anyone will do that. It is concerning because we cannot count on AM being around indefinitely. If Ron retires and shuts it down we only have Lionel for high rail.


----------



## alaft61ri

For some reason iam not getting the pic.


----------



## AmFlyer

The most recent picture in this thread is the video Mopac posted a link to about 6 posts above this one.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Just bought and paid for that caboose. I went easy on the seller and took his counter offer of 45.00 plus shipping.
> Thanks for finding it Kenny.


Glad to help mopac. Also glad to see you got it at a reduced price. I do like that caboose. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I had mentioned my camera goes in and out of focus on doing video. Here is an example. A very short video. This is one of my O scale engines. Korean made steam engine. Very nice. Bought used from a forum member. I need to turn auto focus off.

MVI 0367 - YouTube


----------



## AmFlyer

That is not right. Something is not working correctly in the focusing software. The video and depth of field are good when it is in focus.


----------



## mopac

Tom, it has a bunch of settings and I am sure I have screwed up something. That is about the speed of focus as it always has been. I think it is a cannon camera. It really would not hurt to read the manual and reset everything. I have been out at Best Buy black friday sale. I hate black friday. But there are some deals. LOL, and I like deals. I had to go to 2 Best Buys. First was already sold out of what I wanted. They told me another store had 50. By the time I found out where the other store was they were down to 8. I got mine and they were down to 3. They would not order me one at the price. I
could have waited. Its a Christmas present. Part of the reason I hate Black Friday.


----------



## AmFlyer

Maybe there is a way to do a reset to factory like on phones and tablets. That should cure it. I do not think my Nikon has any combination of settings that will cause the continuous refocusing loop you have.
I have an absolute policy about Black Friday I have never violated. It is stay at home and hang the outdoor Christmas lights. I am taking a short snack break from that activity right now.


----------



## mopac

I used to put up alot of lights. Border the roof, hang them in trees of front yard, and some lit deer. My wife liked the lights. I do not do any of that anymore. Bah Humbug.


----------



## AmFlyer

Just finished the lights. No bah humbug here.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are four AF boxcars by Lionel. These are fairly recent production and look good close up.


----------



## alaft61ri

Look great love the layout.

Al


----------



## mopac

The cars look good Tom.


----------



## AFGP9

Great looking cars Tom.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

I saw this indented side tender on eBay and snapped it up before it got away thinking it was a S gauge tender. The seller only had a side shot of it but for a Buy It Now price of $12.00 why not? Imagine my surprise when I got it and found it was NOT an S gauge car as the seller said. An O gauge tender instead. 1939 maybe?

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Prewar, 1941. It goes with the 565 engine, the tender is stamped564.


----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Tom. The reason I said maybe 1939 was because I found some 564 tenders listed on eBay as being 1939. I had no clue. I'll just see if I have any room in one of my cases otherwise into a clear tote it will go. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

I think its cool it would of fooled me
.


----------



## AmFlyer

The 1939 564 locomotive is a Hudson, it has a post war looking New York Central tender. The indented side sheet metal tender goes with the 1941 4-4-2 Atlantic.
I just have to ask, didn't the center rail sliding shoe pickups under the tender trigger a "this cannot be 2-rail" reaction? Or maybe the seller did not include an underside picture.


----------



## mopac

I got in the mail today probably the best deal I got this year. 8 Pieces of K-Line wide curves and
8 pieces of K-Line straight track for 24.88 plus shipping. Works out to about 2 bucks plus shipping
for the wide curves each, figuring a buck each for the straight track. There is an auction on ebay
right now for 6 pieces of the wide curves at $56 something and a couple days left. 6 bids. Thats
almost 10 bucks a piece. I do not mind paying 4 bucks a piece. Not over 5.00. My pieces still 
had the price sticker on each piece. 2.79 for the curves and 2.49 for the straights. And seller threw
in a brand new track lock-on for good measure.

A couple days ago I got this car in the pic. NIB. 25.00 plus 9 shipping. I wanted a 982 but one in this
condition is 100.00 or more. This is a Lionel repro. 6-48313. I did see a first for me today. A Lionel
repro with Original car number. 982. 6-48333. 50.00. And it is new. Someone is going to pay too much for this repro.


----------



## AmFlyer

Some of the Lionel AF reruns of the Gilbert cars used the original Gilbert numbers on the car. These frequently sell for more than cars like yours that have a prototypically correct number on them.
I have one of the original Gilbert 982's on the layout, it is in E condition. The one you bought looks better. Great pickup on the K-Line track.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Tom. I have 35 wide curves. LOL, I need 36 for my plans. I thought I had 1 wide curve somewhere around here but have not found it yet. Sometimes that K-Line track goes for crazy amounts. I have been lucky.

I did not know Lionel did original numbers till I saw the 982 today. Buyer beware. I have plenty of cars now but there is a couple more I still want. MoPac and NH box cars. Originals would be my preference. O h, and I still want a smoke fluid tanker. I am not sure how long my track was listed. It was a BIN and I was cruising the recently listed items. I jumped
on it.

Right now I only have one car coming. A Lionel Gilbert Chemicals car. 21.84 plus shipping.
NIB. A good price I think.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is another one with the original Gilbert number on it.


----------



## mopac

That one looks like an original except for the split tank. I sure did not know they did original
numbers. Not sure what to think about that.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The 1939 564 locomotive is a Hudson, it has a post war looking New York Central tender. The indented side sheet metal tender goes with the 1941 4-4-2 Atlantic.
> I just have to ask, didn't the center rail sliding shoe pickups under the tender trigger a "this cannot be 2-rail" reaction? Or maybe the seller did not include an underside picture.


As I said in my original posting, the seller only had one side picture of the car. No bottom shot. With the indented side, I was thinking it was like that one on my 300. If there had been an underside picture I wouldn't have bought it. As I also said, for $12.00 I took the chance. I never considered it could be an O gauge car. I know nothing about the O gauge Flyer stuff. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> That one looks like an original except for the split tank. I sure did not know they did original
> numbers. Not sure what to think about that.


Nice pickup on that K-Line curved track, especially since it sounds like it is new. I am so glad I had the good since to buy a bunch of that track back when it was common and still being made by K-Line or Lionel after seeing what sellers are asking now. Seems to me I paid $2.30-2.50 for straights and $2.45-2.65 for curves a piece back then. I bought wherever I could find it at various hobby stores when we had hobby shops around here. I mentioned before I bought all one store had because he was wanting to get rid of all he had which turned out to be a lot. Also good buy mopac on that nice BAR car. Those 982's seem to bring big dollars all the time in C-8 or C-9 condition which I sort of understand. Even lesser quality ones are way over priced..


----------



## mopac

I got this Gilbert Chemicals car in the mail today. It is fast becoming one of my favorite
Freight cars. NIB. Car and box in pristine condition. Not a good day for outdoor photo.
Rain starting to come down. LOL, may be some drops on the car. Suppose to rain for a couple days
so got pic now. 2 drawbacks to my new car. Plastic frame and plastic trucks. I guess to keep profit
margin Lionel had to do it. They could have raised the price a buck or two and used metal.
They do not have a lot of competition in S scale. Not in this price range.


----------



## AmFlyer

Better rain than snow. Lionel does a good job with the painting and lettering, they look better than originals. I doubt there is a metal chassis/one piece tank car from Lionel in our future. The upfront tooling costs would be too high. American Models makes much better tank cars than Lionel will and there is a variety of paint schemes.


----------



## AFGP9

I got this new Gilbert Erector car the other day to go with my American Flyer 50 year celebration boxcar. it looks like I am having picture posting issues. Originally I posted a picture of the car in the box, then the car out of the box, and lastly, posted the two together. Comes out with the two together and the one by itself and no box picture. Actually the reverse of how I posted them. Don't care. Not worth stressing over.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Good addition.
Curious if you previewed the post first and if the preview looked correct.
Your experience is one of the reasons I post the pictures from my iPad. It allows me more flexibility and control over the pictures in the posting process. I create dedicated folders for the train posts in the iPad photos app and can edit the pictures so they look correct. I then type out the post on my computer, the text also shows on the iPad in real time as I type it out. I then switch to the iPad to add the pictures, upload, preview and post.


----------



## mopac

Kenny I too have the 50 year car and have been trying to acquire the AC Gilbert car.
They are both very nice.

Not very often but every once in awhile my pics will be out of order. I check the preview
and if things are screwed up I delete the pics and redo.


----------



## alaft61ri

Those are very nice o like the erector one. 
Al


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Good addition.
> Curious if you previewed the post first and if the preview looked correct.
> Your experience is one of the reasons I post the pictures from my iPad. It allows me more flexibility and control over the pictures in the posting process. I create dedicated folders for the train posts in the iPad photos app and can edit the pictures so they look correct. I then type out the post on my computer, the text also shows on the iPad in real time as I type it out. I then switch to the iPad to add the pictures, upload, preview and post.


Tom I always preview my posts to check the details. If not just right, I have the ability to touch up the picture in Photo Gallery. Then I proceed to post in an exact order. Usually things work out fine. I too create a dedicated folder. I am hoping this was a one time issue. Even though I have reviewed my pictures and done proper fixing, if needed in Photo Gallery, what I have in my folder doesn't always transfer to the site as they look in the folder. As an example, the picture of the Erector car looked great on my phone. Sharp and clear. Checking them in the folder, the printing was blurry. I retook them the exact same way, lighting and distance, and got what you see. So whatever the reason things don't turn out correctly is beyond me. They are fine and in order in the folder but once in a while something doesn't work. I am by no means a photographer. In fact it took me a long time to put my Nikon away and rely on the phone, which, by the way, is a month old Android. I don't have an iPad. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny I too have the 50 year car and have been trying to acquire the AC Gilbert car.
> They are both very nice.
> 
> Not very often but every once in awhile my pics will be out of order. I check the preview
> and if things are screwed up I delete the pics and redo.


There were 3 of those AC Gilbert cars listed when I got mine. Two were auctions starting at the price that I paid on a BIN deal. That was a no brainer for a new car.
I delete pictures regularly if there is a problem I am aware of. This time, I down loaded them in a specific order, previewed them and all looked fine. I went from thumbnail to full size and the result is what you see. Like I said in my post, I'm not going to stress over it. I'm to old and the problem is too small compared to other things in life. I would have deleted all of it if I hadn't already deleted the one picture from the folder it was in. You get the picture? lol

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

alaft61ri said:


> Those are very nice o like the erector one.
> Al


Thanks Al. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny what you are doing should work. In my experience Android phones take great pictures.
I have a Nikon and occasionally take pictures with it. I move them to my iPad and computer using the USB card. I am just terrible at foldering pictures on my computer. We also have an Apple computer for making slide shows. For picture management it is so easy compared to the Dell with Windows. Our big challenge is coming next week when I get the data files for all our Christmas and train pictures that were film based back to 1949. We had them professionally scanned at Archival quality, I understand it is a two Terabyte file on an outboard drive. We did have each year put in a separate folder. I plan to post a few here when I am able to figure out how to do it.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Kenny what you are doing should work. In my experience Android phones take great pictures.
> I have a Nikon and occasionally take pictures with it. I move them to my iPad and computer using the USB card. I am just terrible at foldering pictures on my computer. We also have an Apple computer for making slide shows. For picture management it is so easy compared to the Dell with Windows. Our big challenge is coming next week when I get the data files for all our Christmas and train pictures that were film based back to 1949. We had them professionally scanned at Archival quality, I understand it is a two Terabyte file on an outboard drive. We did have each year put in a separate folder. I plan to post a few here when I am able to figure out how to do it.


I recall you saying you were going to do that. Sounds like a lot. On the other hand, isn't it amazing that much information on a small device such as a plug in outboard drive?

I have always gotten good pictures from my past Androids. This new one looks to be even better. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Ran some trains this morning, here are a couple of pictures.


----------



## alaft61ri

That is a great looking layout nice trains

Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Al.


----------



## mopac

Great photos Tom. As usual on that great layout. I am about to lay out some track on the
basement floor. My son has a friend that really wants to run some AF trains. I have a 293
I got from flyernut, maybe 10 months ago, and have not run it a bit. Plus I want to run my
new Berkshire.


----------



## AmFlyer

Go for it!


----------



## AmFlyer

As I was getting out some cars for a Christmas train the PCC trolley decorated for the Pittsburgh Railways was put on the layout as well. The layout depicts Southwestern Pennsylvania, the Greater Pittsburgh area. It is stopped at the suburban station.


----------



## AFGP9

Looks good Tom. I've always liked the Pennsylvania colors. To me they used the old adage of less is more when they used that color with minimum stripping. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Kenny. Unfortunately the drop-in S gauge conversion chassis for the Corgi trolleys are no longer available. I have another one I would like to power but the current choices are not simple drop-ins. The one in the picture runs conventionally, I never had it modified to run with Legacy.


----------



## alaft61ri

That is copl i like that that is sharp looking.

Al


----------



## mopac

Nice trolley Tom. Looks good at the station.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks. Maybe some day a manufacturer will make 1/64 scale PCC cars. I used to ride those cars frequently when I lived in Pittsburgh.


----------



## AmFlyer

Same suburban station, this time with a PRR passenger train stopped at the station.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice layout pictures Tom. I forgot to mention that trolley and how good it looks. I've never ridden one. The closest thing to those around hear was an electric cantenary style 2 or 3 car train that was called the Interurban. It started and ran through Bloomington, Il making stops here and there then 25 miles south to another town. I rode that train once with my grandfather about 65 years ago. I remember it was very noisy. It was similar to trolley style cars. Between towns it used the Illinois Central track.


----------



## AmFlyer

Wow! That was a lot of catenary in central Illinois. Most interurbans were diesel powered. The PCC trolleys were pretty quiet and the accelerated quickly from the stops. Pittsburgh was bridges, trestles, tunnels and grades. Much of the system was street running. The cars rode relatively well, the track gauge was a factor. Pittsburgh Railways used Pennsylvania Broad Gauge for all the traction lines. That was done to prevent the many street running railroads from using the trolley tracks. the track gauge is 5'-2 1/2".


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I have to tell you a story about that catenary interurban. When my dad would drive by that interurban on the highway, I would see occasional sparks coming from the connecting rod where it touched the wire. My dad said that train was for bad people and whenever there was a spark, the people inside would get shocked. I believed him. When the time came I had to ride with my grand dad, at first I refused. He convinced me it was safe and my dad made up the story. I was 7 at the time. I suspect since my dad knew I knew that interurban ran past the courthouse, that is why he made up the story. I was sure scared at first. Since we were well into Bloomington at a slow speed headed out of town, I had plenty of time to get over my fear before it went out into the country headed south. 
The building that housed those interurban cars still stands today. It has been a produce distribution warehouse for the last 40 or so years with an addition of truck docks at one end of the building. The street rails were never taken up, just paved over. If you look straight down the street, you can see slight indentions where the pavement has sunken slightly. I'm sure semi trucks delivering to that warehouse haven't been kind to the street. After the warehouse, the street shows no track indentions even though the track continued on for several more blocks north to the courthouse. Just car and light truck traffic allowed. Semis are only allowed to go to the warehouse one way.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Interesting, both the story and the sparking. I do not recall the Pittsburgh trolleys sparking at the roller pickup/wire interface.


----------



## AmFlyer

As far as Pittsburgh trolleys go I used to ride the Castle Shannon Line, either the Shannon/Drake or Shannon/Library for anyone who knows the area. The two lines run along route 88 before diverging to their respective towns. There has been an auto repair shop on Rt88 where the trolley runs behind it. Its called Fellers Garage and has been there forever.
A modeler in San Diego developed and sold highly accurate 1/64th scale kits of the building. Of course I bought one, my parents lived about a mile from it. The first picture is the completed kit when my layout was in construction. The second picture is the real building taken four years ago, unfortunately no trolleys are visible. The final picture is a staged scene on my layout that approximates the real thing. If you look closely at the last picture compared to the first it is apparent we cut off an inch of the side walls at the rear corners. The building as assembled was too deep for the spot on the layout.


----------



## mopac

Cool building and scene.

I tried to buy a AF smoke fluid tank car today. I failed. I thought I tried, car was at 50.00 with 10
seconds left. I bid 57.00 with 8 seconds left. Car went for 58.00. Yep, I was first loser. I did get
a nice car in the mail today. A 923 IC reefer. Could not be nicer. Plus it was a deal. 6.10 plus
8.45 shipping. I have a 923 here somewhere but no where near as nice. I got my other one when
I was a kid.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac that's a nice car. Like you I have a nice 923 and a not so nice one too. I also have a painted 24403, and 2, 802 IC reefers. There again one not so nice and one like new. 

Tom I need that garage! Looks like some that are common around here in small towns. I got a Plasticville garage as a fill in until I get a kit type. One day I will. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

The 923 looks like one half is lighter orange. Its not. Just the way the sun was on it.


----------



## AmFlyer

That 923 looks perfect, not even a fingerprint.


----------



## mopac

Tom, the other side is just as nice. Little run time on the wheels. Wish I had got a box with it.


----------



## alaft61ri

This is my new addition pick up today at the hobby shop


----------



## Kelpieflyer

Nice switcher.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice 343 Al. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Congrats on a nice switcher. Good price.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks great, I hope it runs just as good.


----------



## alaft61ri

Runs good good but doesnt smoke so i sprayed some crc and wait about 2 hours and see if not not a big deal just buy the kit. Thankyou.
Al


----------



## mopac

My mail box has been busy again. Not worth taking pics. Good stuff but no pics.
I got 2 bottles of Mega Steam smoke fluid. Going back to Super Smoke fluid.
I got the AC Gilbert tribute box car. We have seen it.
Today I really got a hodge pot of stuff. 6 K-Line straight track, 6 Gilbert curve track, 3 or 4
Gilbert half straight track, 3 or 4 Gilbert half curve track, remote uncoupler, a caboose chassis no trucks, 2 remote buttons, a pretty nice yellow and blue 720A turnouts box with inserts. 47 track clips. Got all this for 20.00 plus shipping. Just the clips are worth that.
Seller must have got rid of a box of AF stuff. I still have 3 or 4 packages heading this way.
Still one mailed Dec 11 heading here. The mail is totally screwed up.


----------



## AmFlyer

Some of this must be for the basement floor layout.


----------



## mopac

Only the smoke fluid. LOL.


----------



## mopac

Got this cool diecast panel truck from Menards. It was free for buying any train item at 19.99 or higher. Sadly it is O scale. One in S scale would be fantastic. Menards only does O scale and HO scale. They have become a player in O scale. I do have O scale trains so this is a keeper.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice. I did not realize Menards was selling HO as well as O. Does not really matter since I am about 1200 Miles from the closest store.


----------



## mopac

I knew they did not go much farther east than me. I guess not much farther west. Just central US.
We have 3 or 4 stores in the area. They ship to my closes store and I pick up there. No shipping
charge to me. They have like a 2.00 service fee for online purchases. They will ship to you but will
charge shipping. I have 5 or 6 free vehicles from them. Most have lit headlights and lit tail lights.
They are plug and play. I will try to get some pics of them lit. A couple weeks ago I got a C&NW
stake bed truck with lights. I just order a box car or tank car for 19.99 and get a free 29.99 LED
lit vehicle. A deal to me. The free vehicles are online only. No in store purchases. The in store deal
now is a brown grocery bag. Anything that fits in it is 15% off, including train items. That makes a new box car about 16.99. Are they Lionel quality ,no, but not bad stuff. Maybe they will do S scale some day. I have an army train I got from Menards. I bought it piece by piece. They don't do engines YET.


----------



## AFGP9

Menards has been doing O and HO from the beginning. They also have done a couple buildings suitable for HO, O, and S gauge. One was a power plant building. Since it was that kind of building, it would have worked with all 3 gauges, according to the clear package. I forget what the other was. If I were into HO or O I would probably buy some of their buildings. They have at least 2 that are track side buildings with rail car docks. I've looked at them in the store. They are good looking buildings. The buildings run from 75.00-100.00+. The closest Menards to me had a large inventory during the month before Christmas. Lots of rolling stock, track, and train sets. This year was by far the biggest display they have had to date. There is still a good selection left.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac I do like any old trucks with the rusty patina. That does look good. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Old truck with a rusty patina?


----------



## AmFlyerFan

AmFlyer said:


> Old truck with a rusty patina?
> 
> 
> View attachment 552605


I like those old trucks too. I have a local Menard's that I do a lot of business with. I like their O gauge buildings, The Dollar General looks just like the one in town. A good selection of all. (Belatedly)-Happy New Years to all here.


----------



## mopac

Happy New Year to you. Old trucks are cool. nice pic Tom.









Here are some promised pics of some of the lit vehicles I got from Menards.
The last pic is my latest Menards purchase. Very nice box car. 19.99 and a
29.99 lit vehicle, what not to like.


----------



## mopac




----------



## alaft61ri

Those r really nice like the trucks cars wagon panel trucks. 

Al


----------



## BigGRacing

For today


----------



## alaft61ri

Thats cool.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

BigGRacing said:


> For today
> View attachment 552657


I saw on old PBS show quite a while ago. They were loading a ship to the UK with 3 of these monsters. With about 1/2 the number of chains holding them up. The dockworkers were walking back & forth underneath. Scary.


----------



## Chuck7612

A recent restoration of mine.


----------



## mopac

Very nice 343. I have a 342 but not a 343. I bid on a couple this week but lost.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks good, Chuck. Hard to tell but it looks like a 5 wire connection, so AC, not DCC?


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyer said:


> Looks good, Chuck. Hard to tell but it looks like a 5 wire connection, so AC, not DCC?


Yes, original AC. I have a very small collection of Gilbert AF steamers. I have a 326, 336 and 343 all of which I have restored mechanically, electrically and aesthetically, my uncle's Royal Blue and his 21105, and my little boy's 283. All of these I keep original/restored condition other than ripping out the air chime whistle and replacing with Dallee bell and whistle. At the flip of a switch I can rotate my layout from conventional AC to Legacy or to DCC. I run all of these on conventional AC.

Then I have a 295 and 283 that I totally customized with paint, decals and TMCC.


----------



## alaft61ri

That is nice did u rebuild that one too. I just bought one to runs good but doesnt smoke. Havnt had tome repair the smoke. Just recently bought a k335 sellar said hasnt been tested and 2 wheels r missing on tender the middle ones. Paid 240. plus shipping. Cant wait this is my first northerner. 

Al


----------



## mopac

Congrats Al on your first northern. You will like it. "untested" usually means I tried it and it does not run.
No biggie. They work just like other AF steamers.


----------



## Chuck7612

alaft61ri said:


> That is nice did u rebuild that one too.
> Al


I wouldn't say it was a rebuild. For my full restorations, I take them completely apart (except the reverse unit unless it needs new fingers or drum), fix or repair whatever is necessary, clean everything with various means, paint the shells and sideframes, polish the handails/grabirons, apply waterslide decals & clear coat, re-grease, and re-oil.


----------



## alaft61ri

You do nice work.
Al


----------



## Chuck7612

alaft61ri said:


> You do nice work.
> Al


Thank you. The first time I spray painted a scratched up 60 year old die cast shell and saw how good it looked, I got a little hooked on fixing them up.


----------



## AmFlyer

Al, your K335 is not missing any tender wheels. Since it has an Air Chime Whistle there should be sliding pickup shoes in the center position on the tender trucks. The K335 should have come with the Whistle controller.


----------



## BigGRacing

Awesome job Chuck!

AM Flyer , and I know I prefer not to hang out underneath heavy loads or even near the ends of some that swing....lol


----------



## alaft61ri

Ok thanks i saw the pickupsprings in center but no controller.


----------



## Chuck7612

How about another recent restoration...


----------



## AmFlyer

Another nice engine.


----------



## alaft61ri

That looks brand new.
Al


----------



## Chuck7612

alaft61ri said:


> That looks brand new.
> Al


That's what I was aiming for. Thanks!


----------



## mopac

Thats a beauty Chuck.


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyer said:


> Another nice engine.


Thanks. That was one of my best water slide decal applications to date.


----------



## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> Thats a beauty Chuck.


Thanks


----------



## mopac

Chuck, what paint do you use.


----------



## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> Chuck, what paint do you use.


Krylon colormaxx flat black. But on the 343 I used satin black just to try it out. I liked that little bit of shine and left it that way.


----------



## mopac

I like the Krylon paint also. I used the satin black on some hoppers I painted.
Thanks.


----------



## AFGP9

Chuck7612, your 336 looks as good as new. Nice job. The application of the water slide decals looks like factory. It is hard to beat Krylon paint. I've used both the satin and flat and had great results. Also paint for charcoal grills works good too but is flat black.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

I got this reefer yesterday thanks to a lead from Tom. I knew it was supposed to be NIB but had no idea it was REALLY new as in a 2020 issue. The pictures of the smoking 312 I just rebuilt are posted in case I don't or can't get the video to load. It is sitting on my work table for the test. That is the Mega Steam coal fired fluid which does indeed have a smoke smell to it. The engine was a bit below about half speed using a 4B. I am pleased and surprised with the result. Notice the smoke volume as it got warmer. I rebuilt the smoke unit using a bit heavier wire than the stock nichrome and wound around torch wick. Once again the pictures do no appear in the order as posted. Now I will try posting the video of the running 312.
I just tried to post a video but no luck. Tried the URL trick several times, no luck. Might try again later.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Always fun to help other people spend their money!


----------



## AFGP9

I have noticed that!! Still haven't found the silver Green Bay and Western reefer. Non have come up on eBay. Could you please give me the Lionel catalog number for it? That might help. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

It is 6-41002 from 2013.


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, I just noticed the typo in the car name. Wonder how things things get through spell check and QC. 
I have three of these cars, let me know if you cannot find one elsewhere.


----------



## alaft61ri




----------



## AFGP9

Thanks Tom for the part number. Green Bay&Wetsren Reefer? I will do a search again with the PN. I have noticed QC for spelling or sentence structure is lacking in places where English isn't their first language on other items as well. 

Kenny


----------



## Chuck7612

Built from a Pre-Size Models' Greenville Gondola kit


----------



## AmFlyer

Chuck, that gondola looks good and not a model I would normally see on an S gauge layout. I also like the weathered train in the video, not something I have the calling to do. It is interesting how the rotating bearing caps stand out in that close up video, but in live action on the layout I never notice them.


----------



## Chuck7612

Here's a custom job...a junker 283 combined with a junker Hudson tender that I refurbished for my little boy. It also has TMCC controls and sound.


----------



## rsv1ho

Very nice Chuck. Die cast or plastic? Paint? Aerosol or air brush?


----------



## Chuck7612

rsv1ho said:


> Very nice Chuck. Die cast or plastic? Paint? Aerosol or air brush?


Thanks. 283's are plastic and Hudson tenders are die cast (except the 1958 326's which had plastic). Paint is rattle-can Rust-Oleum Ultra Matte True Navy.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice. It looks like a lot of work to paint all the engine wheel centers, then paint whitewalls on the pilot and trailing truck wheels.


----------



## rsv1ho

Chuck7612 said:


> Thanks. 283's are plastic and Hudson tenders are die cast (except the 1958 326's which had plastic). Paint is rattle-can Rust-Oleum Ultra Matte True Navy.



Truly beautiful and as Amflyer observed, a lot of work. Complete disassembly, side rods, valve gear, wheels. Took awhile. Got a little "Blue Goose" in it. I have shied away from Rust-Oleum in favor of Krylon, but that has me thinking.


----------



## Chuck7612

rsv1ho said:


> Truly beautiful and as Amflyer observed, a lot of work. Complete disassembly, side rods, valve gear, wheels. Took awhile. Got a little "Blue Goose" in it. I have shied away from Rust-Oleum in favor of Krylon, but that has me thinking.


Yup, it was a total overhaul. I even had to fabricate a draw bar and smokestack. Polishing the siderods and grab irons is always tedious and time consuming, but definitely easier on a Pacific than on a Hudson or Northern. Plus there was all that goes into TMCC: DC can motor conversion, smoke/chuff baffle modification, chuff sensor, all new wiring, LED headlight, control wiring tether, circuit board installations, speaker installation, program/run switch and antennae installation. Not to mention designing and ordering the custom decals.

I typically use Krylon too, but this Rustoleum color really caught my eye. 

Here's a brief video of it running:


----------



## mopac

Wow, very nice. I bet your son really likes that.

Chuck, do you use something to eat up the borders on the decals. Seems it was called diosol.
I just got an AF steamer in the mail this week. it is a repaint. The paint job is nice, happy with
the repaint, but not with the decals. The clear borders of the decals really show up. I am going to try and remove the decals. I will try water first. Hope he did not use clearcoat on the decals.

I want to do LED headlights also.


----------



## rsv1ho

mopac said:


> Wow, very nice. I bet your son really likes that.
> 
> Chuck, do you use something to eat up the borders on the decals. Seems it was called diosol.
> I just got an AF steamer in the mail this week. it is a repaint. The paint job is nice, happy with
> the repaint, but not with the decals. The clear borders of the decals really show up. I am going to try and remove the decals. I will try water first.


Yeah, decals have become my Waterloo too. I used to have success with them, not anymore. You asked the question that I wanted to ask. Commercial waterslide decal paper will curl decals, pre printed decals separate and tear. I always dust with clear.

Blue Microsol will remove decals.


----------



## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> Wow, very nice. I bet your son really likes that.
> 
> Chuck, do you use something to eat up the borders on the decals. Seems it was called diosol.
> I just got an AF steamer in the mail this week. it is a repaint. The paint job is nice, happy with
> the repaint, but not with the decals. The clear borders of the decals really show up. I am going to try and remove the decals. I will try water first.


Yes, he loves it.

I use the Micro Set / Micro Sol combination when applying waterslides. Micro Sol is the one that goes on after you have set it in place and helps it really "snuggle" down onto the surface. I would try Micro Sol painted on very gently in small amounts to see if it fixes them.


----------



## Chuck7612

rsv1ho said:


> Yeah, decals have become my Waterloo too. I used to have success with them, not anymore. You asked the question that I wanted to ask. Commercial waterslide decal paper will curl decals, pre printed decals separate and tear. I always dust with clear.
> 
> Blue Microsol will remove decals.


If you are putting fresh ones on, I find it is best to 1) apply to a glossy surface (I usually spray the whole side with gloss clear coat), 2) dot the decal area with drops of Micro Set, 3) put the waterslide into warm distilled water with self closing fine point tweezers 4) once it starts to separate from the backing remove from water while keeping the backing on and dab off excess water 5) slide it off the backing and into position using a blunt ended tool (I prefer silicon color shapers) 6) apply Micro Set and Micro Sol according to instructions 6) spray with clear coat


----------



## rsv1ho

Chuck7612 said:


> If you are putting fresh ones on, I find it is best to 1) apply to a glossy surface (I usually spray the whole side with gloss clear coat), 2) dot the decal area with drops of Micro Set, 3) put the waterslide into warm distilled water with self closing fine point tweezers 4) once it starts to separate from the backing remove from water while keeping the backing on and dab off excess water 5) slide it off the backing and into position using a blunt ended tool (I prefer silicon color shapers) 6) apply Micro Set and Micro Sol according to instructions 6) spray with clear coat


We are twins Chuck, my SOP. But, at 83 I may have lost a step or two. 

Bob


----------



## AFGP9

Nice work you do there Chuck. That 283 with the TMCC had to be a lot of work and time. It looks great but nobody would know the amount of time involved in the TMCC application just by looking at it not to mention the attention to detail involving the wheels just to name one of the many details. 

Kenny


----------



## Chuck7612

AFGP9 said:


> Nice work you do there Chuck. That 283 with the TMCC had to be a lot of work and time. It looks great but nobody would know the amount of time involved in the TMCC application just by looking at it not to mention the attention to detail involving the wheels just to name one of the many details.
> 
> Kenny


Thanks Kenny


----------



## mopac

We do have some talented people on this forum. Great place to learn a thing or two.


----------



## alaft61ri

Beautiful job love it and the sound and your layout.

Al


----------



## mopac

I got a new to me car bought this morning. Seller describes it as C7 excellent. Sellers do tend to over
grade. From the pic it does look nice. I saw no flaws. Its the 983 Mopac eagle car. I have wanted one
for a couple years. I have over 12 of these in HO. All brand new and all with different road numbers.
I paid plenty for it but I do not think I over paid. With 10 seconds left I put my max bid in. It took all but 3 dollars of my max bid. I will post a pic of it here after I get it.

Tom please give me a price guide price in used but nice condition. Then I will tell you what I paid for it. Thanks.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, congratulations on finally buying a 983! The guide value is $90 to $100 for E, or 7, condition.
I bought an E condition with the OB in 11/2001 for $100, at the time it was worth about $150 with the OB. I bought another one new in the box from Dennis Bagby at about the same time for $135, a great price. Dennis had a whole drawer full of them under his layout. Back in the early 2000's NIB 980 series cars sold for about double the guide excellent price. The value of these cars has dropped about 30% since the early 2000's.


----------



## mopac

Thanks so much Tom. You do provide a wealth of information. I paid 43.00 plus shippng for mine. Now it remains to be seen what the condition is after I receive it. Seller only showed one side of car. I was reading sellers feedback AFTER I BOUGHT It. Most of the feedback was fine. One guy complained the car he bought was not a C7 but maybe a C4 or C5. So it does remain to be seen after I get the car. I will say again, sellers tend to over grade their stuff. Which is really stupid on sellers part. Why over promise, you are setting yourself up for trouble.

Selling cars for almost 30 years I lived by this. Under promise and over deliver.
Made my life alot easier.


----------



## mopac

No box with mine.


----------



## AmFlyer

Even back in the train show days prior to ebay most sellers overgraded. It was a lot easier to tell while holding it in your hand. I carefully bought items from a number of sellers but the high value items almost exclusively from John Heck or Dennis Bagby. They were both conservative graders of condition. Plus back in the 80's and 90's Dennis and John were getting most of their items out of the attics and basements of the original owners so we knew the provenance of the sets. If they got the item from another dealer they would tell me. It was around 2000 when dealers started to assemble sets from individual pieces and boxes because of escalating set values. Many sets today have no provenance and did not come from the factory with the same pieces now present in the box.
Dennis also bought out all the New Old Stock inventory from Gladys Trains when they closed in 1986. That is the origin of my NIB 983.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is a great price, I hope the other side is ok as well.


----------



## mopac

Ebay says I have bought from this seller. His name did not ring a bell. That is good.
This car is a big deal in the HO world also. MoPac railroad had their home office in St Louis.
I knew a few that worked in the office. After UP merger they closed the St Louis office.
I got some neat stuff out of the office. Time schedules, desk ink blotters, pencils, a book
of unused passenger tickets, matches, and such. I was a big fan of the MoPac railroad.
The MoPac was bigger than most think. When they merged with the UP in the early 80s,
they had more locomotives than UP. The UP said they would keep their own identity. That
lasted about 2 months. They started painting MoPac engines yellow but it said Missouri
Pacific on the sides. I have a few of these in HO. We called them canaries.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac , nice buy and a steal at that price if it is as advertised. I have been watching one of those for a while and the BIN price is a whole lot more. Seller says C-8 and no box. I made an offer and was turned down after it has been on eBay for almost 3 weeks. I've found that if a car sets long enough some sellers will take less to sell the car. Not this time. I have a 983 that was in the collection I bought a few years back. It sat too long in the sun and is faded on one side so I want a nice replacement. That collector had built a shelf display in a window on the west side of his basement window. I have 10 nicely faded cars on one side because of it. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, in 60 to 70 years many things can happen to a car. You may remember me telling about getting a perfect
Tuscan caboose in the mail and within 2 hours of getting it out of the mail box I ruined it. I had some alcohol on my fingers and grabbed the caboose. I have the outline of a finger on one side. That alcohol ate through the paint in no time at all. I was sick and not happy with myself. Some day I will find some Tuscan paint. mask off the panel with the finger tip, and paint that section, it will never match but I think it will look better.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac I sure do remember your finger print incident because that sounded like something I would have done. The cars I was referring to were the 10 that the previous owner had let set on his window shelf, as he said, forever, never thinking of the sun fading issue. I don't think the age of the cars had a thing to do with it since sun can fade anything in months. He thought it made a nice display. After I agreed to buy his collection and began boxing things up, is when he discovered the sun fade cars.
I can give you another sun fade story to illustrate how fast direct sun light can fade anything. I have 3 Snap-On metal red and chrome parts carts. Not cheap. 2 of them are in my garage. One of them sat not far from a small south side window and is now an orangeish red on one side of the 2 shelves. Both of the shelves had things on them or they would have had the same fade color due to the angle the sun would have hit them. The raised side would have protected the first portion of each shelf but from then on they would have been just as faded. That happened last summer after I moved that one.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

My mail box will be busy for awhile. I know I said I was about done buying things. Must
have been a lie. In the past week I have bought a couple box cars, a rerailer, a set of
manual switches, a tank car, and this morning made a deal on a Flyonel C&NW loco.
From 2003. So should be a can motor. 6-48067. Brand new in box. Its the Baldwin
switcher. Good looking. Certainly did not need it. I offered 140.00 and we settled at 150.00.
Cheaper than most of the Baldwin switchers on ebay. I have got to stay off ebay. They
always have things I like.


----------



## mopac

I found something yesterday that I did not know I had. Out of curiosity I hooked up a LIONEL Sound Activation button up to the lock-on. Sure enough my new NKP GP9 powered and dummy locomotives have a horn. If I reverse the wires from the button I probably have a bell. Might try that later today. Like almost all American Flyer horns and whistles the horn sounds like crap. More of a buzzer than a horn. Only my FlyerChief berkshire has a good whistle. I need to find a good deal on a couple Lionel sound box cars. One diesel and one steamer. They sound good.


----------



## alaft61ri

So true. Lol


----------



## AmFlyer

Either stay off ebay or replan your expenses to exclude food and electricity.
Here is the Lionel catalog cut for the engine. Maintenance free motor means a can motor.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the info Tom. I like the looks of it. Your info does not mention a horn.
Probably no room for one. It would sound bad anyway. A buzzer is not a horn.
At least I paid less than MSRP.


----------



## AFGP9

Looks good Mopac. I've always wanted an original Gilbert but I have heard too many stories about how bad they run or don't, even though I think they can't be much more complicated than any other diesel engine such as a 370 or 372 or any other diesels. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny I feel the same way. My AF guru calls the original diesels "finnicky".
Thats enough for me.


----------



## AFGP9

That's what I have heard. Some times even in stronger terms. The thing is, for an engine that nobody seems to like, why are they still pricey? I'd be game to buy one if they were a whole lot cheaper simply because I want to see what the big deal is and I don't mind a challenge. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

The power truck, gears and motor are poorly designed. They will run, for a while. If you get one for running on the layout just buy a complete can motor assembly for it. I have a few of the Baldwins. They all run but not really great. Here is the set I think is the best looking. These are LN/OB with very little run time. I took them for a lap around the layout, they ran ok.


----------



## AFGP9

I thought about the can motor fix if I ever got one of those. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading something the poorly designed motor and gearing. Makes me wonder why Gilbert just didn't use the 370/372 series engines innards. Why not use a proven system instead of trying something new. Another Gilbert mystery in their design and marketing.
Those Seaboards sure do stand out. Nice. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Yes, those Seaboards look great. Well beautiful. 

No more open frame AC motors for me. I hate them. I guess the AF steam locos are open frame but they are different.
Much larger. Same problem with early HO locomotives. Open frame motors but DC. And poor gearing. Nothing good about them. I am not into shelf queens.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

I like those Seaboards too. 
But after struggling to keep my Baldwin 355 running I don't think I'll be adding another one. I did put a can motor in mine and it runs great now; I'd recommend a can motor to anyone. When it starts slowing down, its time to wipe down the track.


----------



## AmFlyer

If anyone really wants a Baldwin the new FlyerChief ones are the best choice. The C&NW is 6-44119.


----------



## mopac

I guess I should have checked that out. Probably a hundred more and I could have had good sound and 
a better runner.


----------



## mopac

I went looking for a FlyerChief this morning. No luck. Charles Ro still has some Berks but no diesels.
About the same thing at TrainWorld. I will keep an eye out for one. Not a good selection out there on
S scale stuff.


----------



## AmFlyer

I do not see any on ebay either, interesting.


----------



## AmFlyer

They were in the 2018 Big Book catalog, 4 road names. Maybe not a lot were sold.


----------



## Chuck7612

For Baldwins, you can always go with American Models. They have 19 roadnames in stock plus undecorateds....
Baldwin S-12 : American Flyer Compatible S gauge model trains from American Models., American Flyer / AC Gilbert Compatible S gauge model trains from American Models.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yes, as Chuck states, AM makes a wide selection of Baldwin S-12 roadnames. Unfortunately the C&NW shows as sold out on the AM website.
Here is a picture of my New Haven AM Baldwin.


----------



## Chuck7612

I have added a few things since this was shot, but here is one of my favorite photo angles of my layout.


----------



## mopac

Nice shot Chuck. Looks like Florida with the palm trees. Water looks good.
Nice Texaco station. Here is a pic of my Texaco station.


----------



## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> Nice shot Chuck. Looks like Florida with the palm trees. Water looks good.
> Nice Texaco station. Here is a pic of my Texaco station.


I like it! Here's two that show mine better.


----------



## AmFlyer

Definitely a tropical appearance, I like the purple house. Both versions of the Texaco stations are nice.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice layouts nice job


----------



## Chuck7612

My trackside fluffle


----------



## mopac

There will not be much left after those rabbits get done. The farmer will not be happy.


----------



## mopac

Got my 983 MoPac box car today. Very happy with it. I really see nothing that disappoints me.
I took 2 pics, one of each side.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks great, you finally got one. Those barrels will hold a generous amount of of Whiskey, or would it be Whisky, or some of each, for the S scale residents.


----------



## alaft61ri

Looks great enjoy.
Al


----------



## mopac

It ain't water, LOL. These are really O scale so a little big.


----------



## AFGP9

Looks great mopac. A lot of times those red "Missouri Pacific Lines" stickers have missing points or are curled some. Yours look good. As far as those barrel's scale size goes, have you ever been to a distillery? Being a bourbon drinker before diabetes, still have an occasional Wild Turkey and rocks, I once took the Kentucky Bourbon trail tour. The barrels used in distilleries are larger than you would think. I'm sure whiskey barrels can't be much different in size. The size of yours looks fine to me. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

I found this S-Fest reefer on eBay. I never knew they used 1948 Gilbert link cars in 1980. The green is a bit darker than the pictures shows. The decals on the sides sure do stand out as apposed to the last 10 years AM cars and their good job of lettering that are used. When the car is sitting in normal light, the decals are still visible but not as obvious as in the picture since the car is darker than shown. The wonders of photography. If you want to find flaws of anything, just take a picture. Even though the car is new, there is no box. It also has a plastic chassis. I am a bit mystified as to how the S-Fest people found new 1948 Gilbert cars since there had to be several made.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Unusual find Kenny. Never seen it. I like it. Congrats on the car.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice i like


----------



## AmFlyer

When I get home I need to look up that car. The mix of what looks like an original Gilbert reefer body with a plastic chassis and then 1948 trucks and couplers sounds like a one off.
The source of the body would have been Hobby Surplus, who bought out all the Gilbert unassembled shells. I have about 10 of them in my collection.


----------



## AFGP9

I just looked at Badgerland S-Fest history. I got some clarification but also more confusion. The text says the car for 1980 was to be a tender shell from Hobby Surplus Sales and decorated by Ken Hein. The picture to the left of the text shows the reefer I have, not a tender. The picture contradicts the word description. except the reefer pictured does not have link couplers but maybe Pike Master. The coupler is not clearly shown. Further explanation on the car's markings is also listed and it seems as though even Badgerland is somewhat confused when explaining the lettering. They say the lettering was supposed to be marked with NASG and BSG, abbreviation for Badgerland S Gaugers. Instead the designers chose "BASG" instead of "BSG". Their bottom line question is, "Was this a joint meet or two separate events?" In other words, they have no idea why the car says BASG. At least I have confirmation that my car was made. The only tender body I saw was from 1982.
I still don't have my 2020 S-Fest Milwaukee Road hoppers despite numerous contacts with Roy Meissner. Not impressed with his actions, or more to the point, lack of. Good luck trying to get in touch with anybody else.
Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

There is something seriously wrong that the 2020 cars are still missing.
The reefer body came from Hobby Surplus, if it was purchased with a chassis it would have been sheet metal with Pike Master trucks. Hobby Surplus sold a batch of 400 shells to Kris which were repainted and lettered. They are pretty well documented. Hobby Surplus later stamped lettering on some surplus shells without repainting them. Those cars were sold with or without trucks, all had a chassis. The buyer could specify PM or repro KC's if trucks were desired. I have 6 of the Hobby Surplus cars and one of the KMT cars. Usually a plastic chassis was used for scale trucks and couplers, not 1948 link couplers.


----------



## AFGP9

I'm still not clear as to what I have because of a number of things. As the picture unfortunately shows all too clearly, the lettering is a very well applied decal so I would surmise it was a professional application. After looking at the Badgerland history web site and and reading their description that the purposed car was to be a tender from Hobby Surplus then showing a picture of the reefer with the PM couplers, I am more confused as to this car's origin. Tom based on your knowledge of Hobby Surplus, and the fact that you say plastic chassis were used for scale trucks and couplers, why do I have a link coupler on a plastic chassis? I expected a metal chassis because of the link couplers not plastic. That was a surprise. The seller only posted a side and end shots of the car. No bottom pictures. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Can you post a picture of the bottom of the chassis? I want to see if it is plain or has detailing, including body mount coupler pads, on it.


----------



## AFGP9

Yes tomorrow. There are some reinforcing ribs on it. Like I have seen on other plastic chassis cars. 

Kenny


----------



## BigGRacing

I think for the east coast, this ‘no trains on my road’ is one pic of the day


----------



## mopac

No pics yet because they have not arrived. But are on the way. On Dec22 (before Christmas)
I won an auction for a track cleaning fluid 3 dome tank car. Car was mailed Dec 23. I have not
got this car yet. For over 30 days it did not move according to tracking. Yesterday it moved. Has
made it to St Louis. Might get it tomorrow. Good thing it was not medicine that was needed. A
couple days ago I threw a bid of 19 dollars and something on a 1993 TCA convention car. A
decent Great Northern box car. I did not expect to win, but did.. A TCA convention NIB car for 19 dollars seems like a deal. I will show pics of these 2 cars when I get them.


----------



## mopac

The 3 dome tank car did make it to St Louis. It is now in Memphis, TN. Unbelievable.


----------



## alaft61ri

I hear you waited 16 days for buy 2 xmas cars.


----------



## AFGP9

A day late Tom but here is the bottom of that S-Fest reefer. As you can see it does have the plastic body fasteners.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

That is not at all what I was expecting to see. It is unwarped plastic and appears to be original Gilbert, the plastic edges are very rough, not smooth. It has a mold number like the pressed wood cars made during the Korean war period. The truck rivets are either factory or done by someone with a lot of experience. I have never seen or heard of this chassis/truck combo.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> The 3 dome tank car did make it to St Louis. It is now in Memphis, TN. Unbelievable.


Mopac it seems the USPS in your case seems to not know where St. Louis is. Unbelievable is right.


AmFlyer said:


> That is not at all what I was expecting to see. It is unwarped plastic and appears to be original Gilbert, the plastic edges are very rough, not smooth. It has a mold number like the pressed wood cars made during the Korean war period. The truck rivets are either factory or done by someone with a lot of experience. I have never seen or heard of this chassis/truck combo.


I certainly have never seen such an arrangement. I dug out some older link cars and none look like this. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Put it on ebay with a $999.99 buy it now price as a one of a kind prototype. See what happens.


----------



## AFGP9

Certainly an interesting idea. I'll think on it.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Were it mine I would keep it. It Is unique. There is probably someone in the Flyer community who knows the history.


----------



## Chuck7612

AFGP9 said:


> A day late Tom but here is the bottom of that S-Fest reefer. As you can see it does have the plastic body fasteners.
> 
> Kenny


I wonder if Bob Bubeck could help you identify it?


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I will keep it having thought about it. I have 5 other S-Fest cars so it will go with them. Actually I should have 7 care if I ever get those 2020 hoppers. I called Roy this morning and got his answering machine. Again. If I could get into Badgerland directly it would be a big help. Thing is, on their site they list Roy Meissner as the go to person regarding the 2020 S-Fest hoppers and of course the email link doesn't work nor does their web master link work either. Got another idea. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

It has been a while since I added a picture here. I have been taking some pictures with the Nikon mounted on a tripod so I could do some 5 second exposures at f22 for greater depth of field. 
Here are two pictures of the same scene. The first one is trackside of a brakeman helping position a Santa Fe U36c at a local freight stop. I really like the appearance of the MTH .138 rail in this perspective. It looks scale and makes the engine appear more massive. The second one is the same scene from a different side and higher perspective. The Santa Fe is behind the PRR diesel on the siding. The red pickup, brakeman and station are visible. The green NYC boxcar is the second car behind the NYC ES44Ac diesel. Looks a lot different.


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyer said:


> It has been a while since I added a picture here. I have been taking some pictures with the Nikon mounted on a tripod so I could do some 5 second exposures at f22 for greater depth of field.
> Here are two pictures of the same scene. The first one is trackside of a brakeman helping position a Santa Fe U36c at a local freight stop. I really like the appearance of the MTH .138 rail in this perspective. It looks scale and makes the engine appear more massive. The second one is the same scene from a different side and higher perspective. The Santa Fe is behind the PRR diesel on the siding. The red pickup, brakeman and station are visible. The green NYC boxcar is the second car behind the NYC ES44Ac diesel. Looks a lot different.


Cool shots Tom


----------



## AFGP9

That is some great photography Tom. I like the track perspective in relation to the Santa Fe U36c. You may convince me to get my Nikon and tripod out again and try some shots. I haven't used in 3 years so I may have to get the instruction manual out again. lol I have gotten too used to using the the phone especially my new one. You must have used the correct lighting as well since it looks natural. 

Kenny


----------



## Chuck7612

Built from Pre-Size Models Greenville Gondola kit


----------



## AmFlyer

Chuck's gondola is really nice. Unfortunately I do not have the calling to assemble kits so there will not be any on my layout. Note the scale wheels on it. They run perfectly on the Lionel FasTrack system.
Kenny, the lighting was a combination of daylight and a recessed LED can light in the ceiling over the scene. The Nikon was in aperture priority mode, f22. The camera selected the exposure time, it was about 5 seconds. I took the polarizing filter off the lens to shorten the exposure time. The same shot can be made with the iPhone 11 or 12. There are Apps in the APP store that allow complete control of the camera functions so it can be put into aperture priority mode etc. When I am at home it is easier to use the Nikon for these specialty pictures.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

AmFlyer said:


> Chuck's gondola is really nice. Unfortunately I do not have the calling to assemble kits so there will not be any on my layout. Note the scale wheels on it. They run perfectly on the Lionel FasTrack system.
> Kenny, the lighting was a combination of daylight and a recessed LED can light in the ceiling over the scene. The Nikon was in aperture priority mode, f22. The camera selected the exposure time, it was about 5 seconds. I took the polarizing filter off the lens to shorten the exposure time. The same shot can be made with the iPhone 11 or 12. There are Apps in the APP store that allow complete control of the camera functions so it can be put into aperture priority mode etc. When I am at home it is easier to use the Nikon for these specialty pictures.



Very nice pix & especially the depth of view! 
I used to take pretty good pix too, but got dumbed down by my cellphone camera.


----------



## AmFlyer

I hear you! I also became dumb down and spoiled by iPhone cameras. I am forcing myself to take a few pictures with the Nikon.
Here are a couple more taken with the Nikon, these are at the main passenger station. Managed to get all six tracks in the first picture.


----------



## mopac

All are nice pics Tom. Your layout is a great place to take pics.

Well Glory be!!! I finally got my track cleaning fluid tank car today. And my 1993 TCA
convention car. Got some running around to do and will take pics later. The tank car
was bought Dec 22 and mailed Dec 23. And received Feb 4. It was on a world tour
most of Jan.


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyerFan said:


> Very nice pix & especially the depth of view!
> I used to take pretty good pix too, but got dumbed down by my cellphone camera.


Thanks. I was just lucky. That is from my Samsung mobile phone and I know nothing about photography.


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyer said:


> I hear you! I also became dumb down and spoiled by iPhone cameras. I am forcing myself to take a few pictures with the Nikon.
> Here are a couple more taken with the Nikon, these are at the main passenger station. Managed to get all six tracks in the first picture.


Excellent shots!


----------



## BigGRacing

I won this beautiful car through a contest at my other train forum. I like both forums so no I’ll intent is meant. It does now become the most beautiful car on my layout though now.


----------



## Chaostrain

mopac said:


> No pics yet because they have not arrived. But are on the way. On Dec22 (before Christmas)
> I won an auction for a track cleaning fluid 3 dome tank car. Car was mailed Dec 23. I have not
> got this car yet. For over 30 days it did not move according to tracking. Yesterday it moved. Has
> made it to St Louis. Might get it tomorrow. Good thing it was not medicine that was needed. A
> couple days ago I threw a bid of 19 dollars and something on a 1993 TCA convention car. A
> decent Great Northern box car. I did not expect to win, but did.. A TCA convention NIB car for 19 dollars seems like a deal. I will show pics of these 2 cars when I get them.


If your car came from out of the country you can thank our "wonderful" Customs for sitting on it. If you buy anything perishable or sensitive to temperature be extra sure it's shipped within the U.S. They killed some seeds I purchased from Italy leaving me no recourse but to eat the lose. I've also had other packages just disappear in the mail for 5 weeks or so.


----------



## mopac

BigGRacing said:


> I won this beautiful car through a contest at my other train forum. I like both forums so no I’ll intent is meant. It does now become the most beautiful car on my layout though now.
> View attachment 553912
> 
> View attachment 553913


Nice looking car. I like it also. For some reason orange box cars always look great.


It was like it was held up in customs, but no, all US Mail. I had heard their were semi trailers
loaded and just sitting at post offices. just a few short years ago 3 day delivery was the norm.
Not true today.


----------



## Mikeh49

Seems hard to predict with USPS these days. I just sold 2 audio components on ebay and the 8-10 lb packages made it across the country in 3 days. One to really small town Vermont picked up Sat, delivered Tues. One to Miami area, picked up Wed, out for delivery today. This from medium size town, middle of Washington state. Priority Mail 3 day.


----------



## alaft61ri

Al great pics and layout


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Chuck's gondola is really nice. Unfortunately I do not have the calling to assemble kits so there will not be any on my layout. Note the scale wheels on it. They run perfectly on the Lionel FasTrack system.
> Kenny, the lighting was a combination of daylight and a recessed LED can light in the ceiling over the scene. The Nikon was in aperture priority mode, f22. The camera selected the exposure time, it was about 5 seconds. I took the polarizing filter off the lens to shorten the exposure time. The same shot can be made with the iPhone 11 or 12. There are Apps in the APP store that allow complete control of the camera functions so it can be put into aperture priority mode etc. When I am at home it is easier to use the Nikon for these specialty pictures.


Tom I am hardly a photographer. The iPhone has ruined me. I wasn't doing too badly with my Nikon then the iPhone became easier. I barley know an fstop from a bus stop! That is why I need to stop and reeducate myself on the Nikon use. I'll look into the APP store apps. Your lighting looks great as I said before. It looks like it is more natural than using any other kind of lighting. Even though you said you had a recessed LED can ceiling light, I would bet most of the light was more natural. Since I am in the basement and don't have much natural light, I have to rely on my can track lighting angling.

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> All are nice pics Tom. Your layout is a great place to take pics.
> 
> Well Glory be!!! I finally got my track cleaning fluid tank car today. And my 1993 TCA
> convention car. Got some running around to do and will take pics later. The tank car
> was bought Dec 22 and mailed Dec 23. And received Feb 4. It was on a world tour
> most of Jan.


Mopac, was there a celebration? That was indeed a world tour for your cars. I was talking to my local Post Master about delivery times. She said that Dec. was bad month due to Christmas and the ever present COVID excuse which had some PO's short handed. The COVID seems to be the fall back excuse for just about everything these days. It may be a valid excuse or a crutch. I hate to be too critical.
A prime example of that is where I work part time. The store and the whole 25 store chain are closing. The initial reason given was because of COVID. Funny how Tractor Supply and Farm & Fleet are doing just fine. Both are the same kind of store we are. It was plain old mismanagement from the inexperienced new owners who weren't keeping the stores stocked. Plus you got to pay your suppliers. That wasn't happening so the supply was cut off until the owner couldn't find any more suppliers because word got around he wasn't paying suppliers. Finally this past January he filed Chapter 11. We all got a notice in the mail. The chain used to be know as Big R Stores. There may be a couple in Missouri. Big R ran a good, tight ship. Not this guy and his no-nothing buyers. He fired all the experienced Big R buyers and brought in all new staff. Bad move. The word got down the line that none of those new buyers were familiar with farm type stores and their customer base. 

Kenny


----------



## Chuck7612

S Helper PS-2 covered hopper weathered by me


----------



## AmFlyer

If it photographs this well it must look better in person. You have some real artistic skills.


----------



## mopac

My latest mailbox find.
Brand new. Well, it is NOS. It came from an out of business train shop.
Seller did misdescribed it. He said it was for a 282, 290, 293 and etc.
It is not. It has 2 small holes in the front. A wire harness will not fit through
them. No biggie, I will just drill one of the holes bigger. The tender shell is
probably for a late model 5 digit locomotive. I have none of these. It is nice.
14.00 shipped. A fair price I thought. I will make it work.


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice find, it is the tender shell for the 21085. It is unusual in that it has larger font AMERICAN FLYER rather than smaller font AMERICAN FLYER LINES.


----------



## mopac

I did notice it did not say American Flyer Lines. Ok with me. I hope the tender frames were not
different size.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice


----------



## AmFlyer

The 21085's were 2 wire connections with a 2 position reverse unit in the engine cab on the motor. All the frames that had plastic tender bodies are the same size. Not sure if the frames under the older metal tender bodies are the same size with the same mounting provisions.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

AmFlyer said:


> The 21085's were 2 wire connections with a 2 position reverse unit in the engine cab on the motor. All the frames that had plastic tender bodies are the same size. Not sure if the frames under the older metal tender bodies are the same size with the same mounting provisions.



That's what the tender on my 21085 looks like. 2 wires exiting through separate holes. The holes have small brass colored metal grommets in the shell. 2 position reverse. Small script.


----------



## Chuck7612

I added a smoking whiskey still to the layout


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice love your layout especially the smoke come out of wood stove cool.
Al


----------



## AmFlyerFan

A still, Cool. Does it smell like 'Ol Tree Stump' or 'Jack Daniels'?
I'm assuming you're using a Mega Smoke type product?


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyerFan said:


> A still, Cool. Does it smell like 'Ol Tree Stump' or 'Jack Daniels'?
> I'm assuming you're using a Mega Smoke type product?


I wish it smelled like Woodford Reserve. Yes, I am using Mega Steam.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

Was that a kit from someone, or did you build yours out of a AF smoke unit? Woodford's is good, but the best is somebody else's.


----------



## AmFlyer

Clever accessory. It would be easy for the revenuers to spot that still.


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyerFan said:


> Was that a kit from someone, or did you build yours out of a AF smoke unit? Woodford's is good, but the best is somebody else's.


The still is from Model Tech Studios: S Scale Detail MOONSHINE Still, Get your Brew Here, PRE AGED, Layout Ready (modeltechstudios.com) 

I cut off the stack, drilled a hole through the middle and glued a Seuthe #22 smoke generator to the top: Seuthe Smoke Unit Generator - Quick Order - Unit Only NO Retail Packaging | eBay


----------



## alaft61ri

Here is that 650 green that was in rough shape someone in the forum forgot who said i should paint it to match my 350 royal blue so here is a picture. Thankyou looks good. Here is a pic.


----------



## JMedwick

Love that color. What a great idea!


----------



## mopac

Looks good AL


----------



## Chuck7612

alaft61ri said:


> Here is that 650 green that was in rough shape someone in the forum forgot who said i should paint it to match my 350 royal blue so here is a picture. Thankyou looks good. Here is a pic.


Great paint job.


----------



## mopac

I will be painting me some cars. Al, how did you keep the lettering and the window frames.
Or did you redo them.


----------



## alaft61ri

I repainted them some one here told me to go to hobby lobby they sell a sharpie which is paint thats what i used on the front nose of the 350. So i went back and bought the package of colors. Thanks iam happy the way it came out.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Time to bring this back to the top of the list. While I am waiting for my new purchases to show up here are some never seen pictures from the planning of my layout. These are renderings from the 3D CAD model (AutoCAD 3D) that were used during the design review process. There are many more. The layout 3D CAD model was about 25% complete when this review was held. I thought seeing these might be of interest. The track plan was at about 80% final but the solid 3D renderings greatly help visualize the finished layout rather than just the track plan.


----------



## mopac

Very cool Tom.


----------



## AFGP9

alaft61ri said:


> I repainted them some one here told me to go to hobby lobby they sell a sharpie which is paint thats what i used on the front nose of the 350. So i went back and bought the package of colors. Thanks iam happy the way it came out.
> Al


Al I suggested that to you when you bought that 650 with some other items a while back because the car wasn't in great shape. I knew you had a Royal Blue 350 so I suggested painting the 650 blue. I have yet to paint any of my New Haven 650's that I have for my Royal Blue. Another project that I have put off. I am glad you bought those painting Sharpies. Those paint type Sharpies sure do come in handy don't they?
I forgot to mention how nice that 650 looks. Nice painting. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Outstanding Tom! Isn't 3D CAD great? I've never used it myself but have a friend who uses it all the time in construction/remodeling business. I've seen some of his finished renderings of kitchen remodels. Looking at a flat blue print is one thing but when converted to the 3D CAD finished product, it sure does give the customer a whole better picture of what might be the finished product. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Yes they do kenny thanks like the layout and the 3d effect very cool


----------



## AmFlyer

The 3D CAD system with SolidWorks on the back end is amazing. It was the final nail in the coffin for plastic models of plants. We used to build plastic models of refineries during the preliminary design phase that could be as large as 40' square. Now when a physical model is needed it is just 3D printed from the CAD model.
Here are more picture of the process. The entire layout structure, even profile boards, was made on a CNC machine with a file downloaded from the CAD program. The precision, plus the clash detection subroutine allowed very close clearances with no interference. This is the entire layout waiting to be assembled. A lot different than cutting wood in the garage.


----------



## AFGP9

Now that is impressive Tom. Yes a lot better than cutting wood in the garage not to mention precise fitting when assembling. That makes for a better looking over structure. Thanks for sharing. 
I've seen some of my remodeling friend's kitchen cabinet pieces laid out before assembly much like your pieces pictured using the method you describe. He tells me besides an exact fit, it is a "cut once" procedure and done and just a matter of assembly. That 3D CAD printing procedure sure has my attention. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Some pictures follow. I did not yet unpack the three 80' NH cars. I did unpack the two 80' tuscan cars for my PRR set. I used the Nikon for these pictures to maximize the depth of field by shooting at f22.Somehow I managed to get the entire scene in the first picture out of focus. I must have let my finger bump the Touch Screen monitor to mess up the focal point.
The first picture is the two 80' PRR cars, a 10-1 sleeper and a Cafe car. The second is the rear of the NH observation car. These cars are dark green with black roofs. Third is the six car set, fourth is the Combine. Look at the left where the combine meets the RPO, the two scale couplers are completely misaligned vertically. The mismatch seems to occur between a three axle truck (RPO) and a two axle truck (Combine.) An issue I will need to fix.
These scale couplers are really tiny. With the scale couplers the cars couple closely together. Unfortunately these are not body mounted, they are truck mounted on a long, flexible arm. In the long run I may be better off putting highrail couplers on them with the shortened arm I developed for close coupling. These have proven 100% reliable in operation. The six NH cars have the new LED lighting as sent from AM. No flicker.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are three more pictures of the Tuscan 80’ heavyweights. There is a bright window just behind and above the backdrop that is causing the reflections of the lens aperture. I was not using a lens hood which is obviously needed when shooting into a bright light. GRRR. At least they are in focus.


----------



## AmFlyer

I unpacked the three 80’ New Haven cars and took a bit more care in the photography. The colors show up much better as well.
I have also looked at the scale trucks and couplers more closely. The coupler on all the three axle trucks sits higher than the couplers on two axle trucks. The small scale couplers completely miss each other. I was aware of this from my high rail heavyweights. The coupler arm on two axle trucks was so low it hit the point rails on turnouts. Changing to three axle trucks solved this derailment issue. I will be changing the two axle trucks to three axle trucks on the four cars that come with the two axle trucks.
I also plan to replace the solid inoperable scale couplers with high rail couplers including my custom close coupling modifications. The cars will run more reliably this way. I will leave the scale wheel sets in place.
Here are the cars, in order the 12-1 sleeper, the 10-1 sleeper and the cafe car.


----------



## mopac

Those are beauties. How long are those cars? I am guessing 17 or 18 inches.

I have a few new cars I have got in the last 3 weeks. I will try to get pics soon.
It will not be tomorrow. As I remember I got 2 nice PRR box cars. 2 tank cars.
Also a 293 steamer that needs a paint job. Not much else. I have slowed up.
I have more than I will ever use. They would look nice on shelves. Narrow shelves
with track on them.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice cars Tom. Gotta love heavyweights. A Hudson would look good pulling them. You may have coupler issues but at least you developed a fix for that. Where are you getting the 3 axle trucks? AM? That flickering light fix is an idea I had read about but never tried. Good to hear that it indeed works. It looks like you are going to stick with Nikon? 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac I too have slowed down buying, as in nothing. I got enough to do for sometime. My 3 glass cases are full, I can't put up any shelving because I'd have to drill holes into 2 paneled cinderblock walIs, and the only wooden wall is behind one side of my layout that is 4' away and has mountains in the way. I got no room on the layout either. I don't want to put stuff in storage containers so I will forget about them like I have done. So no more buying......unless I find a bargain! Better yet, I'll just keep doing what I've been doing and stay off eBay and all other selling sites I've looked at. Oh, and stop looking at the Charles Ro ad and the Berkshire that is still listed like you have. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I do regret buying all the rolling stock I have bought in the past year. LOL, this does not include
old Gilbert cars like my MoPac car. Not sure why I bought the Lionel cars. You mention the Berkshire. 
I still think everyone should have one. I still like it alot. I thought about buying another one. #1225. I won
1300.00 at casino saturday and then I thought about all the money lost before that. No #1225 for me. I
am on a train diet. If my freight trains and passenger trains were generating money I could see buying more.


----------



## alaft61ri

The parts that are made from the cad and cnc are really cool and the new car are really nice looking. 
Al


----------



## Mikeh49

Those 80' cars look really long in AF space. Did you say 32" radius curves? Do they look good there?


----------



## AmFlyer

The standard 70' passenger cars are 13 1/4" long. The full scale 80' cars are 15 1/2". The upper viaduct the 6 passenger cars are on does not have a constant radius, the effective radius where the cars are staged is around 100". It tightens down to a 34"R at the top of the picture where the Passenger yard entrance is located. I now have ten full scale 80' passenger cars. I think they look much better on the layout than the shorter 70' cars.
For some reason AM puts three axle trucks under the combine and RPO, but two axle trucks under the coaches, baggage and observation cars. Their two axle trucks allow the high rail coupler to sit too low causing derailments when the weight catches on turnout point rails. I will order more replacement three axle trucks from AM and replace all the two axle trucks. They also look better.
Kenny, I did not know it was a requirement to display all the engines and cars. I guess I will need to buy another house to display the 1,000 items I have in boxes unless someone here wants to expand their Gilbert collection.
I usually take pictures with my iPhone because it is easy and convenient. Sometimes I want more depth of field to make the picture look right so I use my Nikon in Aperture priority mode at f22. Since I have the tripod set up with the camera on it I take more pictures with it. My wife is still thionking of self publishing a book on my layout and trains so she wants me to take more of the high resolution photos. I am not holding my breath it will ever get done. For reference, the exposure times at f22 vary between 5 to10 seconds when I shoot on the layout.


----------



## alaft61ri




----------



## AFGP9

Tom I'm sorry but I don't understand your comment saying you did not know it was a requirement to display all engines and cars. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I have not been able to display all my Gilbert items at once since 1985.


----------



## BigGRacing

In case anyone wants an old baggage car interior pic maybe ?








or an old intercolonial steamer


----------



## AmFlyer

Great pictures. Somehow I expected there to be some racks or shelves in the baggage car to hold suitcases.


----------



## BigGRacing

That’s an excellent point, maybe this one was being upgraded or changed for some other purpose? I am not sure but I really liked the look and quality of the interior and light fixtures.


----------



## BigGRacing

A sitrep of the Sunshine Foundation charity build that members of our club are making great progress on.
Ballasting, bridge and finishing up the door being worked on today, will probably epoxy the ends of the styrofoam at the Door.


----------



## BigGRacing

Sorry everyone, I just noticed this was a “s” scale, my apologies


----------



## AmFlyer

I was was trying to get a different perspective so I took this shot through the length of the bridge. It is harder to get a good shot hand holding an iPhone than I expected.


----------



## mopac

Good shot looking through the bridge.


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice thats cool


----------



## AFGP9

BigGRacing said:


> Sorry everyone, I just noticed this was a “s” scale, my apologies


No matter. Trains is trains. I like your door opening construction. You wouldn't believe the time I spent and the different approaches I took to try and come up with a suitable, workable gate like you have there. Eventually I scrapped the whole idea and built a lift up bridge hinged on one end. Even that had to have perfect track alignment and good electrical connection. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I was was trying to get a different perspective so I took this shot through the length of the bridge. It is harder to get a good shot hand holding an iPhone than I expected.
> 
> 
> View attachment 556624


Nice shot Tom. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I got this car in the mail over a month ago. But have not taken a pic of it. Its a plain Jane car but I like it.
Its a 1993 TCA convention car. 6-48482. Great Northern. This car was only 19.99 plus shipping. A good
price for a convention car. No one else bid on it so I got it for start price. Car is NIB. Box has some minor
shelf wear.

We have a nice sunny day in Missouri today but sun was behind the car, not shinning
on this side of car, sorry but I have other things to do today and could not wait for sun to come around.


----------



## AmFlyer

Interesting car, I do not recall seeing that one. It is the first day of spring so the sun should be shining.


----------



## AFGP9

I like it mopac. Cheap for a convention car too. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I like the car, glad I bought it, and like you said it was cheap. One thing I am not fond of is
the orange color. No the color is fine. Problem is it is not painted on, it is molded in the plastic body.
As you know when the color is in the plastic the item looks plastic. When something is painted you
usually don't know what the item is made of. Could be plastic, could be wood, could be metal. Its
still a keeper. Never seen one before.


----------



## Chuck7612

Lionel-AF depressed center flat converted to scale trucks & couplers and wood decking.


----------



## AmFlyer

Another fantastic looking car!


----------



## mopac

Nice flat Chuck.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice car Chuck. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Here are 3 cars I got about 1 month ago and never showed. I like all 3. The first is a Wabash
box car. It was made in 1988. I have no item number, it did not come with a box. It was only
12.11 plus shippng so that is ok. It is used but only a little. The other 2 cars are PRR box cars. NIB. 
All 3 cars have sintered trucks. The Pennsy cars were 28.50 each plus shipping, same seller.


----------



## AmFlyer

The first two I have on the layout, pretty sure I have not previously seen the the 3rd one with Gilbert on the side. Nice cars and as always you paid less for them than I did.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I knew you would like the 2 PRR cars. You have said you like PRR cars. Me too. I saw that Gilbert. I have not noticed it on other cars made by Lionel. Item number is 6-48330. From 1997. Yellow and blue box. The first PRR is in a red, white,blue box.


----------



## AmFlyer

Tomorrow I will verify that I do not have a 6-48330. Then I will discuss getting my wife to work finding one on ebay. My layout is loosely based on the PRR and connecting RR's around the Pittsburgh area. My New haven equipment is an anomaly.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I searched ebay this morning for any 6-48330. Found 2. Both over priced. And too high
of shipping. I searched completed auctions and found 2 from last month. Again there was two.
Both were described as "pre owned and like new". They looked "like new". Both went for under 20.00.
Big difference. No reason to jump on the 2 that are on now. Have patience. If you don't
already have one.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, I am in no hurry.


----------



## mopac

2 more cars from ebay. Both are used but in very good condition. The REA looks to be new but does show some wear
on the wheels. The Illinois Central car was 8.50 plus 6.75 shipping. The REA was 16.00 plus 10.00 shipping.
I like the REA cars, I do not know if this one is a double but I have 4 REA cars.


----------



## AmFlyer

That REA car is a good one to have, even two is fine.


----------



## mopac

Here s a video purely for your enjoyment. I love the video and the song. My new to me IC 923 made me think of it.
I would love a pair of IC E8s and the passenger cars to go with them.
Turn it up !!!
Thanks Tom. LOL,I forgot the video.

City of New Orleans, Arlo Guthrie - YouTube


----------



## AmFlyer

The IC E8's and the Budd IC cars are long sold out. I am surprised Ron does not do a rerun of these.
I do like that song.


----------



## mopac

Maybe put a bug in his ear. Play the video for him.


----------



## Chuck7612

AmFlyer said:


> The IC E8's and the Budd IC cars are long sold out. I am surprised Ron does not do a rerun of these.
> I do like that song.


Actually, the IC Budd car sets are available direct from AM. But the E8's aren't and rarely show up on Ebay.


----------



## AmFlyer

Right Chuck, I now see the four car set. Not sure how I missed it earlier.


----------



## mopac

Who made the E8s? None on ebay now.


----------



## AmFlyer

American Models.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Tom. I went to the AM site this morning and looked at their E8s. Very nice.
Their suspension system sounds great. All wheel drive and a bigger motor in the
newer ones. Not priced that bad. They have got to be better than the Lionel junk
PAs I have. One problem, I did not see any that grabbed my attention. I did not look
at the passenger cars.


----------



## AmFlyer

I always liked the UP with the matching Budd cars.


----------



## mopac

I like the UP also but they are sold out. The UP would be my 2nd choice.
Are your E8s what AM is calling the new version?


----------



## AmFlyer

I just took a look at the AM site, there are only a few roadnames in stock. I also have the tuscan PRR and the Lackawanna E8's. I think they all are the newer style. Mine are all converted to run on the Legacy system, I run them in the 100 speed step mode. One engine has no problem pulling nine of the AM heavyweights or a similar number of Budd cars around the layout including 2.5% grades.


----------



## AmFlyer

The PRR sets are kind of boring but that is my home road so I have them. AM has Lackawanna E8's with the matching heavyweights. I have that set, it looks pretty good. The other items they have are NYC heavyweights in the two tone gray and the NYC Budd sets. Either of these sets could be pulled with a 326 NYC Hudson. However that does not get you an E8.


----------



## mopac

The Tuscan PRR set might be #3 choice. I lost 300.00 at casino today so no new trains this week.
My train funds are at 0 right now.


----------



## AmFlyer

All I can say is I hope you had $300 worth of fun.


----------



## mopac

You know I didn't. More like 20.00 worth of fun.


----------



## AmFlyer

Maybe next visit then. Here are two shots of the PRR Tuscan E8, one with the Tuscan heavyweights visible.


----------



## mopac

Nice shots Tom. Thanks for the pics.

Next time you talk to AM ask if there are plans to make another run Of the IC E8s.


----------



## mopac

I like the PA engine sets. I have S scale PAs and I have a beautiful O scale PA set in Union Pacific.
E8s are much better looking locomotives. In real life the E8s were far superior to the PAs. They
lasted much longer in service. There are still E8s running (on private roads).


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is a direct comparison of the AM E8 with the AM PA. The PA does not have all the "DX" details that are on the E8. In the bottom picture the E8 is visible in the background.


----------



## alaft61ri

love your layout and your trains. very nice pics. AL


----------



## mopac

That PA looks good. Much longer nose than an E8.


----------



## mopac

My Southern Pacific PA set.


----------



## mopac

Tried to buy a 332AC on ebay this morning. Got close but finished 2nd in bidding.
My max bet was 231.00 and it went for 233.00. If it was cleaned up and running,
it will bring 300.00 plus. I have at least 2 of these now. This one was just to bring a little profit.
Locomotive paint and cab numbers were nice. Tender needed redone. Some of the lettering
was rubbed off.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac those are some nice cars you got there not to mention for the right price---again. I also have the Wabash 48305, 2, 923 IC reefers and a NIB REA 48806. Actually I have two of them. Just one is NIB. I have 6 different numbered IC reefers. 
Thanks for the video of the City of New Orleans. I have mentioned this story before, but when I was a kid in Southern Ill we lived in one of 4 houses between the IC and the Wabash RR tracks. I got to see IC passenger trains and the Wabash Cannon Ball passenger train often. The IC track curved behind a row of buildings so it was kind of neat to watch as it rounded that curve north bound. First the lead engine would appear then the rest of the train one piece at a time. The south bound one of course was fully visible. The Cannon Ball stopped everyday, across the street and three houses down. What fun that was. I sure do miss those IC, Wabash, CB&Q Zephyr, (which I only saw 4 times), and GM&O passenger trains. Now we got boring Amtrak.
I was lucky enough to ride the IC and GM&O trains a few times. Then there was the NYC Broadway Limited out of Chicago to New York City I rode on my senior high school trip and back. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Nice pictures Tom. I do like the PRR engine colors but as you say the cars are rather boring. Speaking of which, it looks like the second car is tipped a little. Of course what's not to like about the UP set. When I listed the passenger trains I missed, I was referring to the ones I saw all the time. Never saw UP or Santa Fe passenger trains. Seeing yours, I wish I had seen the real ones back in the day. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, those are the 80' lightweights, that picture was taken before I shortened the coupler arms and before the diaphragms were added between the cars. The 80' lightweights from AM are decades out of production. The heavyweights and the Budd cars are better looking.
Long ago I rode the BN double deck commuter trains to the city. They were pulled by a green E8. I do not recall ever seeing the real named passenger trains that I now have on my layout.
MoPac, how do those SP engines run?
Here are the PRR heavyweights with the close coupling modification.


----------



## mopac

Tom, of my 4 sets of Lionel American Flyer PA led passenger trains the SP is the most problematic.
These sets were introduced over a 10 year period and went through some changes. The SP was one
of the early releases. They got better over the years. My other three sets are powered with can motors.
The SP is open frame AC motors. All the sets have 2 motors. The only problem with the can motors is
they are small can motors. The open frame SP will not start up smoothly. There is a lurch every time.
Once the SP is running its not terrible. Someday I will buy a set of PAs with the can motors and switch
shells. The SP is a good looking train. Its the Day Light scheme.


----------



## mopac

My Lionel Baldwin switcher runs fairly well. Smooth and has plenty of power. The can motor is about
4 or 5 times larger than one of the can motors in my PAs. Only 2 complaints with the switcher. No
handrails and no slow speed. I might try a resistor on one of the motor leads to slow it up. Slamming into cars at
30 mph is unrealistic. Lionel just can not get a S scale diesel correct.


----------



## AmFlyer

Were that my SP set and I wanted to keep running it conventional I would buy the can motor conversion kit from S-'N-S trains. I think everything needed for a dual motor conversion including the Dallee electronic reverse unit is $175. Not cheap but it will be the best running PA set you will own. The motors and gearing is far better than the LTI can motor setup in an early PA set.
I have the same lack of low speed problems with the conventional LTI switchers I own. They remain in their boxes, not practical for layout use.


----------



## mopac

Thats a good thought on the can motor conversion kit. 175.00 is cheaper than buying another set of PAs.
I can use the reverse unit. The reverse unit in the SP is fried. A common problem with the SP sets. Thanks.


----------



## mopac

Zero complaints on my Berkshire locomotive. Very nice.


----------



## mopac

The can motor conversion kit is the way to go. Cheaper than buying another PA diesel set.


----------



## AmFlyer

The updated Berks are nice for sure.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have been running the completed nine car green New Haven set behind a green New Haven Trainmaster. I decided that was getting boring. Since it is my railroad I decided to use a NYC 4-8-4 to pull the NH set of passenger cars. I also like the smoke, choo choo and Railsounds effects. Here are a few pictures taken this morning.


----------



## mopac

Looking good. Very nice.


----------



## Chuck7612

Here's my NYC E8 at a train show this past weekend...





and my IC E8 running on my layout a few years ago...





These are my favorite American Models diesels. Because the prototypes were pretty simple in external details, these models are very good facsimiles. Plus they are huge and powerful. I was able to fit huge twin speakers in each of these. I can't turn the sound all the way up or else the horn rattles the heck out of the shell.


----------



## mopac

Those are nice. Yep, got to get an IC train.


----------



## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> Those are nice. Yep, got to get an IC train.


I am always seeking IC stuff, so if I come across an E8, I'll let you know. Not too long ago an A-A set came up on Ebay. 

Mine was tough to come by. After looking for 18 months, I asked Doug Peck at the 2017 NASG convention if he had any ideas where I could find one. He said he thought he had one. I assured him if so it was not listed on his web page or I would have snagged it. He contacted me a few day after returning home and said he found one in his inventory. So I bought it, a 4 four car set and an extra coach from him.


----------



## mopac

You are lucky to have come across an IC set. I have a few things I watch for
You never know.

Thanks for showing your videos. Very very nice.


----------



## AmFlyer

The NYC heavyweight set is nice as well. Perhaps I should have bought that rather than the green New Havens. The deciding factor for me was Ron still had 3 car sets of the 80' cars in NH, but not in NYC. The NYC Cafe car is sold out.


----------



## mopac

I just got off the phone with Steve. He is owner and chief mechanic at S-N-S trains.
I am going to get him to remotor my Southern Pacific PA unit. He has promised me
I will be happy. The 175.00 includes all parts and his labor. I have to pay shipping
both ways. He is behind 6 trains now so I need to be patient. Steve is 82 so I had better not
wait to long to send in. I did not want to spend more money on the junk set but he assures me
this will fix it. I t is a good looking set.


----------



## AmFlyer

I think you are getting a great deal on the remotoring with all labor included. When the engine comes back the set can get some track time.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom think using the NYC 4-8-4 was an excellent choice. Makes a great looking set. 

Kenny


----------



## Chuck7612

Here are some photos of our Houston S scale club's layout operating two weeks ago at the Galveston Railroad Museum. Also if you want to see the videos, here is the playlist from my channel...https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrt3HMUoqCLWSYPO4GbXoEOoHXaH49kUt


----------



## alaft61ri

very nice i will ck out the you tube


----------



## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> You are lucky to have come across an IC set. I have a few things I watch for
> You never know.
> 
> Thanks for showing your videos. Very very nice.


Mopac, there is an IC E8 and a separately listed passenger car set on Ebay right now. They are from the same seller and for very good prices.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Chuck. I will try to find them.


----------



## AmFlyer

Sure enough! $400 for both the E8 and the 4 car boxed set. If I wanted an IC set I would have already hit the buy it button.


----------



## AmFlyer

I searched on American Models IC, used the Priced highest First search order, scrolled down and there they were.


----------



## mopac

I found them. Thanks. I do not think the A unit is the latest and greatest release. Might have to send seller a question.


----------



## AmFlyer

I believe there was only one run of IC E8's. Pretty sure they are all the same.


----------



## Chuck7612

mopac said:


> I found them. Thanks. I do not think the A unit is the latest and greatest release. Might have to send seller a question.


They are all the same. AM never changed the design.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Chuck, that is what I thought.


----------



## mopac

They may all be the same. I do not know. Seller did not mention sound. That is an option on the E8s. Plus I want 2 A units Not one. I might call AM tomorrow and just ask if they might do another run of the E8s. And I will ask if they all had the larger motor. And the newer suspension they mentioned. The box for the A unit looks pretty old to me. Not worn but old.
I would think if the A unit had sound seller would have mentioned it.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Chuck for letting me know about the IC stuff for sale.


----------



## mopac

Talked to Ron at American Models today. He said nothing in the works for a new run of E8s.
And he added that if they did another run it would not include the ICs. Paint scheme took too
much to do. He said it was a money loser. Might try Scale Trains next week and see what they have
planned. I think AM has 2 sets of the 4 car passenger sets left. No 5th cars left, the dome car.
I also might have to consider an AM pair of PRR red set of E8s. But I think they are out of the
passenger cars. Can't catch a break here.

Ron did say all AM E8s are the same design.


----------



## AmFlyer

Ron has all the PRR Budd cars. Four car set, extra coach and three different numbered dome cars. He also has the PRR heavyweights, five car set plus the extra coach.


----------



## AmFlyer

If you are thinking about the PRR carsthere are some choices to be made. The Budd cars come in both silver and chrome. I have each. The silver looks good on my scale layout, the chrome look best on a Gilbert layout, my opinion only. Here are some pictures I found. The two boxed cars are the two extra coaches in silver. The dome cars are one silver and one chrome, the chrome is in the middle. I also put in a picture of the boxed set of the AM PRR heavyweights. I will post separately the Lionel PRR coaches.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is the Lionel observation car. This set is good looking and the power pickups are robust, unlike the finicky brass wires on the AM cars. The tradeoff is the Lionel cars have higher rolling resistance. I would pull the Lionel PRR set with a Gilbert 313 engine. I have an extra unused set if you want it.


----------



## AmFlyer

Oops!, the last picture of the illuminated car is the American Models observation. Here is the Lionel but not with the track power on.


----------



## mopac

I guess the extra PRR set you have are Lionel and heavyweights. They would go well with a Gilbert K5.
PM me how many cars are in your set and a price. And let me know if they are Pennsy red. Thanks. All
my passenger cars for my PAs do not roll well. I can fix that. The copper strip is way too heavy gauge,
and is too stiff.


----------



## mopac

Here s a pic of a PRR train pulling out of St Louis Union Station

1967PRR-4235-St-Louis-MO-12-16-67.jpg (1024×768) (condrenrails.com)


----------



## AmFlyer

I could not bring myself to weather my toy trains to imitate real life.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are some pictures of the Lionel heavyweights on the layout. Six unique cars were made, each has a different name and no two cars have the identical window arrangement. The cars in the add on Two Pack are the baggage car, first behind the engines and the sleeper, second to last. The box calls this a diner but the Lionel catalog correctly calls it a sleeper.


----------



## mopac

Got to get those 6 cars. They look nice. And for sure you got to have a baggage car.
They do need to be pulled by steam. I had the money made at casino today and lost it all.
I knew I needed to leave when I was up and I did not do it. I had enough to buy a 4 car set if I could find one and enough to get your 2 car set. Slow learner here.


----------



## AmFlyer

Notice on Cordelia, the REA/Baggage car, the two doors are different widths, each with a unique widow arrangement. Lionel put a surprising amount of detail into these cars. 
Mopac, every time you post about a Casino trip I am thankful I do not enjoy spending time in casinos wagering. However there is no free lunch, I am sure I have spent the same keeping my wine cellar stocked that you spend gambling.


----------



## AmFlyer

With a Gilbert PRR K5 Pacific on point.


----------



## AmFlyer

I may have gotten carried away today with the camera but here are shots with the PRR Light Mikado pulling the six cars. This engine would not have been used on the prototype but it looks good on the layout. Once in a while these Lionel AF engines from 2006 come up for sale on the internet, but never cheaply. I am hoping that in the next catalog Lionel releases more road names in the Legacy rerun of this engine with the Pacific wheel arrangement.


----------



## mopac

They all really look good Tom. I do like passenger trains. LOL, well freights too.
As of now, the IC will probably not happen. Too late to the party. On the dual E8s
from AM I guess both units are powered.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, the Pacific looks good and even as a perfect condition 313 would be a lot cheaper than that Mikado.
It appears the IC passenger set and the E8 have sold. Not surprising, they never last more that a day. 
I have dual PA's from AM, both units are powered. The set I bought was DC because they were a lot cheaper than the AC version. I had AM mail them straight to Ed Goldin for conversion to TMCC. They are programmed as a set in Legacy so they run back to back in sequence.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, around here every tavern, some eating establishments, many coinvent stores, and stand alone machine straight up gambling establishments are everywhere. While I don't play them, a very good friend who owns a tavern does. I meet him for lunch most days at his place. I eat, he gambles. Before I get my meal ate, he's showing me a winning payout ticket. Then we go to the other tavern where he plays that same machine. Before I get my Pepsi drank, here he is with another payout ticket. He only plays 20.00 at a time. No more. If he loses it, he walks away. Since we have been friends for 50 years, I have no reason to doubt him. He is up 1800.00 and change this month. Bottom line, if Missouri has those machines at places, maybe you should try your luck there. We spend about 2 hours a day together so it isn't a marathon amount of gambling time. The lowest amount was 151.00, the highest was 701.00. Just trying to save you some money mopac and maybe win some. Obviously he doesn't win every time but losing only 20.00 at a time? 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice Tom. Prototype or not, that Light Mikado or the K5 look very good pulling those coaches. To be honest, it would be hard to make a choice. I guess my preference for steam is showing. E8's are fine but give me steam locomotives. As to those IC passenger sets, I know of an old time department store in Richmond, Indiana that has an upstairs train department. The owner has a display layout with an E8 IC passenger set running on it the last time I was there. He sells restored Gilbert AF or Lionel Flyer new. I didn't ask him the brand of that IC set the last time I was there. His repair hourly rate is 40.00 an hour by the way.

Kenny


----------



## mopac

The AC are more because they need a reverse unit. I should pick up a dual red set of PRR.
Not too fond of any of the others they have. Ron said they did not do many of the ICs.
What sound do you have in your E8s? 

Yep, steam would be better for the heavy weights. I have a 312. It had pulmor wheels but I have changed the chassis
with one I got from flyernut. Installed a good motor. Runs well. But no pulmor. Hope it will pull 6 Lionel cars. I got my
PA cars rolling easier just by bending the copper strip down a tad. But I have a better idea to pick up power for the lights.
One of my center drivers on original chassis has a broken stud. Wheel will need to be pulled to repair and I have no
quartering tools so I got the chassis with wheels from flyernut. The original pulmor tires are rotten. Bad tires. I got the 312 for like 36 dollars. Cheap. Paint and lettering not bad. Needs cleaning. Been in storage over 50 years. Needs a new wire harness and work on reverse unit. It will make a good engine. Only K5 I have. I bent the copper strip all the way down on one of my Passenger cars and it rolls great I was surprised. They roll really bad with the strip against the axles.


----------



## AmFlyer

All my American Models conversions have a Railsounds board. There are three different ones for steam engines, the whistles are a lot different, the chuffs slightly different. There are also different sound boards for diesels, depending on the horn desired and the prime mover brand. The bells all seem the same, the crew talk is the same. The startup and shutdown sounds are different.
I will try to run a test for you today. I have no steam engines without PulMor but with a KC. I think I can tie wrap a link to a KC for a quick pull around the layout. 
I invested in two dispensers of Bachmann Conductive EZLube light oil. A drop under the four brass wipers where they contact the metal part of the axle plus a drop on each axle end makes a big difference. The AM heavyweight cars are still much more free rolling but those little brass wire wipers are finnicky to keep in good contact. The AM Budd cars are the best, free rolling, no pickup issues.


----------



## AmFlyer

The promised test has been conducted and the results are in. The train is a six car set of the Lionel AF PRR heavyweights as pictured above. All the wheelsets have been regauged to the precise dimension, in other words they were widened by 1/10th" from the as delivered gauge. All the axle contacts and ends are lubricated, no adjustments were made to the contact pressure of the electrical axle wipers. A 1948 322AC Hudson was used for the test as it was readily available and in good running and smoking condition. The test was run on the upper loop of Line Three. It has a minimum radius of 32" and a maximum grade of 1.1%.
Powered up, the Hudson moved off easily with a slight amount of wheel slip on startup. It could pull the train at any desired speed with no wheel slip. I stopped it at the top of the 1.1% grade and restarted it on the grade. It moved away with no problem and minimal startup wheel slippage. I have steeper grades but I doubt that is of interest. I estimate it will run on a 1.5% to 2% grade but not on the typical 3 to 4% grades on Flyer layouts. The train slowed a little going up the 1.1% grade and slightly sped up going down.


----------



## AmFlyer

Curiosity got the better of me so I moved the train to Line 1. The ruling grade on Line 1 is a 20' long climb (2.1%) from 0" to 5" while going around a 60" diameter 180 degree curve. 
First was a running start at usual operating speed, no problems climbing to the top of the hill. Next test was stopping the train on the grade. The train started with drivers spinning but careful use of the throttle allowed the engine to get traction without wheel spin at a relatively slow speed and then accelerate from that speed without any more spinning. Much better pulling ability than I expected without traction tires.


----------



## mopac

Kenny, we don't have the tavern slots to my knowledge. Sounds good though. I can afford 20.00 LOL.

Tom, thanks for the results. Good test. There is hope. The real ones had some wheel slippage on start up.
Good results with no pulmor tires. I am still kinda surprised Gilbert did not put pulmor on everything.


----------



## JMedwick

Those pulmor tires are great. I tend to use my 293 a lot more than my 312 because the 293 has pulmor tires.


----------



## mopac

I agree. They make a big difference. Put an engine without on the track and scoot it a few inches. It slides easily.
Not so with a pulmor engine. I have very few with traction tires. I have 5 northerns and not one has pulmor.


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Kenny, we don't have the tavern slots to my knowledge. Sounds good though. I can afford 20.00 LOL.
> 
> Tom, thanks for the results. Good test. There is hope. The real ones had some wheel slippage on start up.
> Good results with no pulmor tires. I am still kinda surprised Gilbert did not put pulmor on everything.


Mopac just cross the river over into Madison, Ill. I'm sure they got some machines over there. 

I have also wondered why Gilbert never put Pulmor on everything also. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

Here is a photos of the 353 circus i got about a week or two. i replaced reverse unit wires fingers and wires in tender. And some linkage plus here are the flat cars and passenger car.


----------



## mopac

Very nice Al. I like.


----------



## AmFlyer

We posted a number of smoking locomotive pictures in the "Smoke em if You Got Em" thread. I thought I would put these newest pictures over here in the Photo Of The Day. The subject is the same colorful UP freight train. The first pictures are with a newer UP Legacy SD70ACe. I like the details and paint on this engine, it looks good on point. The sounds and smoke are first rate. The next pictures at the higher elevation is the same UP train with a UP 4014 Legacy Big Boy up front. There is just nothing like a Big Boy, it is worth buying when one shows up. They will run fine in conventional without the Legacy system.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom the UP SD70ACe looks good smoking in the photo. However, as you say, there is just nothing like a Big Boy. Great smoke too. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Great pics Tom. Thanks. I could look at them all day.


----------



## AFGP9

Yep. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I left the train sitting there so I could look at it a few times. I chose the Big Boy rather than the UP Challenger for the steam picture, both look great and smoke a lot through the double stacks. The Challenger is made to a precise 1/64 scale, while the Big Boy is about 1/60 in height and width. The Big Boy is exactly 1/64 in length at 25". Of the two engines the Big Boy is by far the better sounding and running engine.


----------



## AmFlyer

Putting these pictures here rather than in new purchases. Decided to add the REA car to the Lionel AF PRR passenger set to make a 7 car train. It looks good. There are two upgrades since the PRR passenger set was made. The interior lighting is now LED and FINALLY the wheel gauge is correct right out of the box, no adjustment is necessary. The engine pulling the train is a B&O Light Pacific. It is the 2006 TMCC version of the Legacy Pacifics Lionel just cataloged. Unfortunately neither run included a PRR Pacific, only a PRR Mikado. The Mikado looks good but is not quite right pulling a passenger train.


----------



## AFGP9

That REA car looks good Tom. As for the Mikodo not looking quite right pulling a passenger train, ya gotta do what you can so a stand in Mikodo looks just fine. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are some nose to nose pictures of the PRR Mikado (2-8-2) on the right and the B&O Light Pacific (4-6-2) on the left. The two engines are the identical length and look very similar. The PRR has a red oxide cab roof and tender deck, and if you look really close it is PRR dark, dark green. I does not have a Belpaire Firebox. That is the NPR 765 Legacy Berkshire behind them in the second two pictures.


----------



## AmFlyer

Time to bring this thread back to life. Here are three pictures taken today of the PRR Y3 at the head of a 17 car freight train. The first two are startup/idling, the third is underway crossing the diamond running on line 1, crossing the freight yard lead from the roundhouse.


----------



## mopac

The Y3 is a beauty. Thanks for the pics. I always enjoy them.


----------



## mopac

I have been thinking of buying a pair of PRR E8s from AM trains. Looks like most of their E8s have been
sold to someone. I checked ebay and they are not there. Not sure what is going on.


----------



## AFGP9

Sure do like that Y3. Very nice Tom. thanks for the post. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Ron has them as available on the AM website.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks. I ended up buying a Santa Fe Y3 in addition to the PRR. The Santa Fe is in the roundhouse because the fan motor is squealing. It needs to be lubricated. I run it with the smoke off to stop the squealing but that is no fun.


----------



## mopac

I finally bought a pair of AM locomotives. 2 red PRR E8s. I will get a pic when they get here. They might have to pull freight till I find some PRR passenger cars. Might have to get those 2 PRR cars from Tom. I have not bought any rolling stock for over a month. So no new pics. Almost all passenger engines pulled freight after their passenger career. I know PAs did.


----------



## AmFlyer

Congratulations! Are both powered or is one a dummy? I only have single E8's but they pull surprising well. The PRR E8 handles a 9 car set of AM passenger cars up a 2.4% grade. Two powered units would be awesome.


----------



## mopac

Both powered. One with sound. Looking forward to them.


----------



## mopac

Ron is still proud of the red E8s. I could not get a deal. He starts crying not many of the red ones left. I said what you saving them. He talked like he might give a deal on a green set. I could tell it would not be much of a deal so I told him to get me a red set to me. He is 72 and getting tired of running the business. Still a nice guy though.


----------



## mopac

Tom, tell me again about the 2 add on cars you have, how much for them again. Are they Lionel or AM. I need to start watching for a matching 4 car set.


----------



## AmFlyer

The AM E8's are great looking engines and have more detail than the AM PA's. There is nowhere else to get them.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have an extra add on set for the Lionel AF PRR passenger cars. It is still in its sealed original shipping box. The add on is two cars as pictured below. The boxes shown are for the cars on my layout.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, to help with your decision process here are four more pictures. The first two are the PRR E8 with an AM PRR passenger car. Note the colors are very close and the paint sheen is identical. The second two are the E8 with a Lionel PRR passenger car. Note the paint colors are very different and the sheen is different. 
I do not use the AM E8 with these cars, I use either a steam engine or the Lionel Legacy Green PA’s. I will post a separate picture of how that works with the green REA car in the set.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are some pictures of the Lionel PRR passenger set (6 cars plus the REA car) behind the Lionel Legacy PA's. These PA's look like toys compared to the scale details on the AM E8. I think having the newly released Lionel REA car would work well to separate the Lionel cars from the Tuscan AM engines. It tricks the eye into perceiving all the Tuscan cars as the same paint color.


----------



## AFGP9

Nice layout photograph showing the passenger set. Every time I see this section of your layout I think about tearing part of my layout up and duplicating to some degree. Not exactly like yours. just a variation. Then I think do I really need to or want to? Probably won't do a thing. Just imagining. Layout building used to be fun. That was at least 10 years ago. Now..........

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac did you get that rolling stool? How's the knees? 

Flyernut, how did your surgery go? 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

No stool yet Kenny. I am sure there is one in my future. Knees are getting better.

Yes, I am getting excited about my new E8s. Hoping for saturday delivery. Hope they will be good
running locomotives. I have always liked E8s. These might be my first E8s in any scale. So I had
to go to Youtube.

20 Years of PRR E8s - YouTube


Click on link and then on the square with open lnk.


----------



## mopac

I was out one day maybe a mile from the house and UP's redone E8s went by. Very cool. No camera with me.


----------



## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> Mopac did you get that rolling stool? How's the knees?
> 
> Flyernut, how did your surgery go?
> 
> Kenny


Monday... I stopped my Plavex yesterday, had my Covid test today, and start my pre-surgery eye drops tomorrow..Spoke to the surgeon today, they're going to make me far-sighted, and I'll still need glasses because of a astigmatism I have. To correct the astigmatism, it will be $1000 per eye extra, not covered through insurance as it's considered cosmetic."They" said I'll see a whole lot better, no yellow tints,and things will appear nice and sharp with no halos around lights....I hope so or I'll be driving a nice 1940 Willys,lol!!!!


----------



## AFGP9

flyernut said:


> Monday... I stopped my Plavex yesterday, had my Covid test today, and start my pre-surgery eye drops tomorrow..Spoke to the surgeon today, they're going to make me far-sighted, and I'll still need glasses because of a astigmatism I have. To correct the astigmatism, it will be $1000 per eye extra, not covered through insurance as it's considered cosmetic."They" said I'll see a whole lot better, no yellow tints,and things will appear nice and sharp with no halos around lights....I hope so or I'll be driving a nice 1940 Willys,lol!!!!


If your surgery goes as well as mine you well be happy. I too have a astigmatism so I still need glasses, but not as strong. In fact on a cloudy day I can drive without them. I don't make a habit of doing that but I could if needed to for some reason. Since I grew up wearing glasses, that's the first thing I grab in the morning. 

Kenny


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## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> If your surgery goes as well as mine you well be happy. I too have a astigmatism so I still need glasses, but not as strong. In fact on a cloudy day I can drive without them. I don't make a habit of doing that but I could if needed to for some reason. Since I grew up wearing glasses, that's the first thing I grab in the morning.
> 
> Kenny


I've been wearing glasses since the second grade. On the way home from getting my glasses I was amazed as there were road signs and all sorts of things,lol!!! My parents were laughing at me!!


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is a random layout photo. A truck with a load of coal, a derelict flatbed truck, some dogs at a utility pole and a red NYC bay window caboose on a siding. I have mentioned I like red cabooses.


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## Trackman

Trucks, dogs and trains. Sounds like the makings of a good old country song. Nice shot of a great looking layout.


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## mopac

These items came saturday but it rained all day, so I took a couple pics this evening.
Not so good pics but you get the idea of what I got.


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## AmFlyer

Mopac, I was looking at your pictures above and thinking it could be time for more pictures on the wall.
Here is a picture I do not recall posting. It shows a suburban station with a street car stopped for passengers. What might be interesting is the scale varies but to my eyes the scene works and the incorrect sizes do not jump out. The station is an HO model, but a fairly large one. The PCC is a Corgi model so it is 1/50th scale. The people are 1/64. The track is S scale but the gauge is incorrect for Pittsburgh Railways. The Pittsburgh Railways trolley system used 5'-2 1/2" gauge track, if you were ever in Pittsburgh the extra 6" of track gauge was apparent. The street cars and trains never shared any track.


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## alaft61ri

That is really nice and sharp looking.
Al


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## mopac

Looks good Tom.


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## AmFlyer

It has been two months since this thread has been active. I have not received any new train items in that time but I do have some 1/64th scale vehicles I have not posted.
First is a pair of 1953 Oldsmobiles. Second and third are a heavy duty tow truck and a covered hauler, both decorated for Sinclair. Last is a pair of 1949 VW Hebmuller Cabriolet’s complete with surfboards.


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## mopac

Nice vehicles Tom. The heavy duty trucks are awesome. Same for the Olds and VWs. I have been thinking we needed to
renew this thread. Good job.


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## AmFlyer

Here is the back of the Oldsmobiles.


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## alaft61ri

Very nice those are cool were did you get them. 
Al also iam sitting here waiting for the hurricane coming tomorrow. Fun fun lol


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## AmFlyer

They are made in China by Castline, I am pretty sure they were in M2 packaging. I bought them at train shows, way back when they were held regularly.
Here is another of the 1953 Oldsmobiles, this one has the plexiglas hood from the NY auto show. The rest are some different manufacturers and older years.


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## alaft61ri

Those are really cool.


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## AFGP9

Nice cars Tom. Those nice trucks look like AHM. I got a bunch of those and recently added some more. Even though I have been primarily a car guy in real life, I have also had thing for trucks too. Now I have more AHM trucks on my layout than cars! I just bought a few new to me when I was on freight car buying spree. I got a lot of pictures to take and get posted. Too many out side influences lately to get done. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Kenny, I relate to the "outside influences" . I too have a lot of Hartoy AHL trucks. The covered hauler is AHL but I am not certain about the tow truck. I did some research, first I looked at my inventory list but the tow truck was not on it, however the most recent entry was April of 2006. That list is completely out of date. I checked two lists I have of all AHL trucks made by Hartoy and it is not listed. The lists are dated March 2005 so it could have been made later. I will get the tow truck back out of storage later and look at the chassis markings. Finding the OB somewhere in my storage is likely too hard.
Here a a few still new in their OB I am thinking of adding to the layout.


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## AFGP9

Well so much for remembering. My trucks are also Hartoy AHL not AHM like I said. A memory is a terrible thing to lose. I don't have those 2 semi's but I do have the Mobile Oil truck. Gotta my list up to date too before I get enticed into buying anymore. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

AHM is big in HO, easy to mix up who made what.
The tow truck is AHL, here is the underside. The master list of AHL products I have does have a disclaimer on it, good thing, they missed this one.


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## AFGP9

I do like that truck Tom. Actually I've never seen it at any show. Probably on eBay. After I thought about it, AHM is an HO product line. I got some rolling stock and engines from my HO days. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Good news, and maybe bad news, I found the tow truck and three others on my vehicle inventory sheets. I have them listed in a separate section with the heading "Prestige by Mac's Trucks." They were purchased in March, 2000 from Mac McGrath, owner of Mac's Trains and Trucks at the DuPage Train Show. The four trucks are the Sinclair tow truck and the Sinclair Drop Side covered truck. The Drop Side is identical to the AHL cataloged Peabody Coal truck except for the decorating. I have never seen an AHL cataloged version of the other three trucks. The two remaining are the orange Milwaukee Road dump truck and a Hayes yellow logging hauler with trailer. 
It is coming back to me from ancient memories that Mac had these special trucks made by Hartoy for his company. I have never seen any of these four trucks at another train show nor noticed them online. I would have bought more had I seen them. I paid $140 year 2000 dollars for those four trucks.


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## AmFlyer

Here are the last two Prestige Trucks from Mac.


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## alaft61ri

Those are rally cool like the logging truck. For what o see your lay out looks nice

Al


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## AmFlyer

That logging truck photo is painful because it highlights that I still have not put the Maple veneer on the sides of the layout structure.
Here is another interesting car, a 1953 Ford limo with suicide rear doors. All the doors and hood open, same as the other M2 and Racing Champion Cars. On some other 1/64 model brands they may not open.


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## AFGP9

Love that Mack coal truck and the log truck. I've seen a lot of those trucks at Du Page but never anything like that. Outstanding.

I have some of those M2 vehicles too. A few pick ups and several cars but never saw a car like that. Looks good. 

Kenny


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## alaft61ri

cool


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## AFGP9

Here are most of my AHL trucks. All gathered for a group photo. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

The Sinclair gas truck immediately caught my attention. That is not listed on either of the AHL production lists I have. Any chance you have the OB with the number on the bottom?
The Red Crown and Standard Oil gas haulers are not listed either.


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## AFGP9

. Forgot these. The previous ones were on my layout.

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Tom I don't know if I have the box for the Sinclair gas truck. I have most of the boxes but not all were bought in boxes. I do remember buying that truck at DuPage but that was long ago. That is a sharp truck in my opinion. Remined me of when I was a kid in Southern Ill. There was a Sinclair distribution center near where I lived and they had 2 of those trucks exactly like this one.
I have to leave for a while but will look for that box when I return later this afternoon. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, those are nice trucks to have. You should get the Snow Village Coca Cola Bottling Plant to use with the Coke truck. It is a nice building, very close to 1/64 scale.
A little history about AHL. There were regular production runs plus a number of "internal releases" made for specific companies or buyers. Some of these custom items did not have numbers on the boxes. The Sinclair trucks are likely part of those custom production runs. In 2003 Hartoy ended AHL production and sold the AHL brand and tooling to Tonkin. Some time later Tonkin made some 1/64 trucks using the AHL tooling but with completely different decorating. Only five different trucks were made and all production was for specific resellers, two of which were Scenery Unlimited and the Chicago S Gaugers.
I have some of those Tonkin made trucks in my collection but I have no idea where they are. I am sure one day I will come across them when looking for other items and will post pictures.


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## AFGP9

Tom I swear I wrote a response to your message about those trucks. Well guess I will write it again. Regarding that Sinclair gas truck, I remember buying it at DuPage from the guy that was just to the left of the main entrance door. There was no box. It was a older man and his wife. You might remember them. He always had a large selection of die cast. Nothing was ever boxed. Some cars and a few farm tractors that were actually old as opposed newly produced to look old. As recall, he also cast his own as well. I bought a few things from him but since I was there to buy trains i didn't spend much money with him at one time. You are probably on to something with that Sinclair truck. I'll have to look for that Snow Village Coca Cola Bottling Plant.
Interesting information regarding Hartoy and Tonkin. It would be interesting to find some of those Tonkin trucks made with the AHL tooling just for the different decorating.

Kenny


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## mopac

Tom, Kenny, nice trucks. I have some trucks also. Not any you have. I do not remember AHL. 
I will show mine once I find them.


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## AmFlyer

I vaguely remember the table to the left of the main entrance, it was not a vendor I usually made purchases from. I bought most of my AHL trucks from Mac McGrath who was in the building to the right of the main hall. I looked at everything AF but my main stops were, first, the seller of the old magazine and newspaper ads along the right hand wall. Those ads are now framed and hanging on my office walls. Next was Mike Farner from St Louis. He had good stuff but was always higher priced than others. In the center aisle was a guy who brought boxes of empty OB's. Over the years I probably bought around 150 OB's and OW's from him. Then on to John Heck, the only question there was how large an amount would be on the check. I stopped at Dave Garrigues' table to see what obscure variation he brought to show visitors. The last regular for me in the main hall was Andy Jugle. He would have several file cabinets of original Gilbert paper and parts. I bought a lot of paper from him plus my stash of original, unused talking station records in their original envelope's. I regret not buying more of the later variations of the records when Andy had them.
Just talking about this makes me want to attend another DuPage show. The Bottling Plant is #54690, they should not be hard to find but might need to look at the Department 56 reseller sites.


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## AFGP9

I have a lot of mounted advertising as well. only a couple are mounted and framed. The rest are in plastic wrap packaging with poster board backing. I could display those but rather frame them. I have a few frames i could use but most are too big for the adds. I bought some of those ads from the seller you referenced. I have a nice collection of old Saturday Evening Post, Colliers. and Life magazines that In have yet to go through. The magazines that are damaged in some way are the ones I cut the ads from. Most of those adds were for the real passenger trains of the day. Very few contain AF or Lionel ads. Boy's Life has but I don't have many of those. The only name I recognize from the names you listed is of course John Heck. Mike Farmer sounds familiar but I can't place him. I am terrible wit remembering names. I also remember Andy Jugle and new talking station records of which I only bought 3 total. Like you, I should have bought more.
I did find plenty of the Dept.56 Bottling Plants. I have a BIN offer on a new one with box. 
My plan, subject to change, was to attend the Sept. DuPage show. However, there now a mandate of masking up for all indoor events. That might be a game changer. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, that is great, NIB is preferable when you can find them. When I put Snow Village buildings on a layout I do not use the light and cord packaged with the item. I bought some accessory strings of 10 lights and cut the sockets off. That leaves about a foot of wire on each socket. Then drill a 1/4" hole in the layout to feed the wire through, wire nut the sockets to an extension cord with the end cut off, then just plug in the modified extension cord.
The ads look good when mounted on poster board. About 15 years ago we had a frame shop do all our items that were laying around or wrapped in rolls. It was quite a few prints. Here are a some pictures (of pictures.) The first picture shows two of the Gilbert newspaper ads in my office. The second is an Angela Trotta Thomas painting over my layout, the third is a line drawing of 765 at the P&LE station in Pittsburgh.


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## mopac

Nice art work Tom.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks. Since the layout backdrop covers three of the walls I can only fit three pictures in that room. I have two in the hallway outside the train room and seven in my office. For some reason my wife insists that I not hang train pictures anywhere else in the house.


----------



## AmFlyer

New picture, different subject. If you want to see a distant fire in California here is a new one. it started about four hours ago. It appears to be burning near Temecula, about 40 miles east of us. The breeze is blowing from south to north as can be seen from the plume direction so it is coming off the Pacific. That means while the temps are hot the air is still humid. The ridge line just in front of the fire is about 3,500’ elevation.


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## mopac

Those wildfires have been a problem this year. We have had a wetter than normal summer. Helps keep the wildfires down. Thanks for the pic.


----------



## Fire21

mopac said:


> Those wildfires have been a problem this year. We have had a wetter than normal summer. Helps keep the wildfires down. Thanks for the pic.


Therefore there's more growth and more fuel for next year. Never-ending cycles...dryness makes the fuel more flammable, wetness grows more fuel for the next dryness.


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## AmFlyer

The fire pictured above has been named the Chaparral fire. It started at 12:30pm today. It is in the Cleveland National Forest west of Murrieta. There are residences on the slope near the fire. As of 4:30pm it has burned 450 acres with zero percent containment.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, since you are buying a Bottling Plant I looked for a picture of mine on a layout. The ones I found are not especially good but here are two pictures. The first one was taken 12/25/1995. The Bottling Plant is back against the window, not a great picture of it. There are 11 Snow Village buildings on that layout. The second picture is four years later. The layout has grown a bit but now there are over 50 buildings on the layout. Kind of like where there is one there will soon be 100. The bottling plant is in the foreground between the Talking Station and the Tool Shed. Just the side, roof, back and chimneys are visible.


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## AFGP9

Big difference in the number of building in 4 years later. Very nice. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I really like those newspaper ads. I really like that bottom one. The sketch is so full of detail. Fantastic! 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are a few 1954 Dodge Coronets on the layout. These were made in a number of colors, four are pictured.


----------



## mopac

Nice cars Tom. flyernut put a like on your cars. So I guess he made it through all the rain in NY.
I was worried about him.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Nice cars Tom. flyernut put a like on your cars. So I guess he made it through all the rain in NY.
> I was worried about him.


What Rain, never saw a drop from the hurricane, just regular stuff..But thanks for asking!!!!!!!


----------



## AFGP9

Good to hear flyernut. And I thought we had a lot of rain with two 10 inch rains! That is a lot but nothing like the folks on the North East coast not to mention every state from Louisiana up to the coast area. Look what happened in Tennessee. I have cousins eastern Tennessee, they didn't fare so well. My grand daughters in Nashville got a ton of rain but not as bad as Eastern Tennessee. Think about it. That was from a hurricane that began in the Gulf, through New Orleans and then ends up in The East coast. Amazing! I know in the past we here in the Midwest have had heavy rain and storms from hurricanes that have came straight up from the Southern states but we are not as far away as the Northern East coast. 
I do hope anybody on the Forum did alright. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Good that all of the S gauge participants seem to be fine after the weather events. Other than morning marine layer followed by afternoon sunshine we have had no weather events.
It seems like a long time since I posted a train picture, plus I have not received any new trains in six months. Here is a picture of a C&O Light Mikado underway on the layout.


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## mopac

Nice C&O steamer Tom. I have not run my E8s yet. They are beauties. And probably run well.
Still no layout. I had better hurry, not getting any younger. I am at the age that any day could be the last day.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks. As you say, one day starting a layout will have to rise to the top priority.


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## mopac

Yep, I need 2 pieces of wide radius track to do what I have planned. Hard to buy just 2 pieces.


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## AFGP9

Tom that C&O sure does look good especially with all that smoke. I got the Coca Cola Dept. 56 building. The only problem I got is how to down load the pictures with this new computer. I have had my hands full just getting the basics down and desk top icons on the screen. The ports for plugging in the cable to the computer to transfer pictures are way different that my present cable. Need to do some research at Best Buy.

Mopac., the hard part is starting. Once you get into it and got a plan, that's when things get done, almost like an obsession. At least that is how it was for me on every layout I ever built. The one I have now was built to be my last so it was built to last. In it's present configuration, I still look at ways to change some things. The most glaring is the fact that I some how neglected to build more service sidings. Once you start you will spend every minute you can to get enough structure built so you can lay track and get some trains running, even if it is just bare plywood or foam board. You know the old saying. Plan your work, work your plan. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I am guessing your new computer has USB-C ports and your other devices are USB (A or B.) I went online at monoprice.com and purchased several cables with USB-C on one end and USB-A on the other. Simple fix. You can also buy a dock that connects to the computer with a USB-C and has inputs/outputs for USB-A/B, power and HDMI.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is a picture of the Dell dock connected to my wife's computer via a USB-C cable. The wire out the back of the dock is connected to the USB-C port on the computer. The wire with the blue light is the power supply. Two ports to the left (with an orange dot) is the USB device for the wireless keyboard and mouse. There are three more USB inputs plus an HDMI output to connect a monitor. USB sticks, plus other storage devices can be plugged in. There is a Cat 6 wired network connector adjacent to the power cable. USB-C is a vast improvement over the old USB but is backward and forward compatible, with performance limitations.


----------



## alaft61ri

mopac said:


> Yep, I need 2 pieces of wide radius track to do what I have planned. Hard to buy just 2 pieces.


Iam going to a train show if i see any i pick some up looking for some to 
Al


----------



## mopac

Here are some hoppers I have not shown. A custom CNJ hopper and a NYC hopper.


----------



## AmFlyer

I like that NYC hopper. It is another AF by Lionel I was unaware of.


----------



## AFGP9

Both of those hoppers look good, especially the NYC. I am watching a covered PRR hopper on eBay. I just haven't jumped yet. Not hard to take the cover off. 

Got the picture transfer thing figured out. Sure do miss Radio Shack. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Thanks guys. I do like hoppers. The NYC was like 22.00 shipped. Had to go. NYC is 6-48631 from 2007. The CNJ is not the greatest custom but I like it. It was under 10.00. Kenny, in my buying spree I got me a PRR covered hopper. I almost bought another different NYC hopper. It was from that Historic group of cars of which I have many. But it was a 3 bay hopper and all my other hoppers are 2 bay. And I passed.


----------



## AmFlyer

Even Gilbert made 3 bay hoppers, first the Union Pacific and then Peabody coal. Having one in a mixed freight looks good. The downside of 3 bay hoppers is the length of a unit train. It takes a larger layout to accommodate a 10 to 15 car unit train of 3 bays and have it look good. As an example, a train of 12 three bays is two feet longer than if the hoppers were two bays.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, nice to see the weather cooperated for some good pictures on the wall.
It has been a week since 4014 left St Louis, I guess there is a shortage of S gauge fans further west. Here are some pictures I took today of 4014 in Laguna Niguel.


----------



## AmFlyer

One more, I neglected to add the drone shot as 4014 was proceeding toward the local station.
FYI, this is a long engine, the curve radius of the track 4014 is on is 40", 80" diameter. For those who also model 3 rail O gauge that is approximately O-108.


----------



## mopac

Great shots of 4014 Tom.

Yes, Big Boys are long. The chassis is hinged but the body is not.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice pictures Tom. That over head drone shot sure does show just how long those Bog Boys are even in scale size. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Tried to download some pictures with new computer but didn't happen. This is a whole new set up. I was able to get them from the camera, actually my Android phone, but now I have to figure out how to down load. It would have been nice if HP would have supplied a manual like before. I guess I will have to Google the procedure. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, what I do is type out the text of my post using the computer. Then I open the MTF on the mobile device with the pictures (in my case that is an iPad but it also works with an Android phone) and go the same post. The mobile device will see the unposted draft text. Then I touch the paperclip on the mobile device screen, add the pictures and upload. The MTF site is very "device friendly" that way. If I had to post pictures from my computer which has around 20,000 pictures stored I would never post photos again.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is an old picture that quantifies the S gauge Big Boy length. It was taken on the empty floor of the room that now holds my room filling train layout. The prototype Big Boy is 133’-10” to the end of the tender frame. That works out to 24.9” is S scale. The 4014 model is 14.75”, pretty close to exact scale length for the engine/tender set.
Those of you in Chicago may recognize the lumber store printed on the yard stick.


----------



## mopac

Very nice pics Tom. Your Big Boy is beautiful. I got my K-Line MoPac car today and found
my Glbert MoPac car. They are actually alike more than I thought. I like the K-Line. It does indeed
have sprung trucks. Here is a pic of the prototype.












And here is a pic of my 2 S scale cars. The K-Line on the left, Gilbert on the right. The K-Line is a
little bigger. A little taller and a little longer. Not sure what that is about. They both roll very good.


----------



## AmFlyer

The lettering, paint and decals look pretty good. The reasons for the size discrepancy are several. When Marx made the dies for these car bodies the scale was approximately 3/16" but the Marx cars were made for O27 layouts so the width needed to accommodate the O gauge trucks. Gilbert made a 3/16th scale model of a specific 40' boxcar that even in prototype was on the small side. We do not know if Marx modeled the same prototype car.
The taller and wider K-Line #018 would be a perfect fit behind the too tall for S scale Big Boy pictured above.


----------



## mopac

I think both cars are a good representative of the merchandise car. Both are fine with me.


----------



## Mikeh49

Thanks mopac, good perspective. A more noticeable difference than I expected. Then again, boxcars came in many sizes over the years.


----------



## AmFlyer

The prototype for the Gilbert box cars was one of the smallest 40' cars made. The K-Line box car appears to use a different prototype and any other prototype would be larger than the Gilbert cars. I think the #018 UP would look good behind 4014, I will have to ask my wife to buy me one, she has the eBay account. Mopac, how much wider is the K-Line car than the Gilbert car?


----------



## Mikeh49

Tom, what is the prototype for the Gilbert boxcars? Along this line, how do the Lionel O27 "Scout" cars compare to AF? I think there was a double door box that would add some variety. Baby Ruth car? (Too lazy ATM to look it up.)


----------



## AmFlyer

The Gilbert boxcars are based on an early 1930's PRR version of the ARA X29 boxcar. The PRR did not follow all the ARA standards so the car end construction and roof details deviate from the ARA standard. These cars had only an 8'-7" interior height. By 1940 most of the railcars based on the ARA X29 standard used a 10'-0" interior height. 
I have no Lionel cars in my collection. I know some S scale operators have modified O27 Lionel cars but these have been extensively modified, not just a truck and coupler swap. All the Scout Cars are too wide to be correct on an S scale layout. If you want other styles of boxcars AM makes them as does SSA. Check out the DesPlaines Hobbies website.


----------



## mopac

Tom, I have already packed the 2 cars away. Looking at the picture and going from memory the K-Line might be 1/2 inch wider. a 1/4 inch on each side. I myself would not hesitate to run the 2 cars together. The K-Line is bigger but its not a monster. If you look at old freight cars in old photos there was different sizes. I would think different car builders and different railroads would deviate from one standard. The Gilbert car looks a little small and the K-Line looks a little big.
Neither looks out of place on the rails. My photo does a pretty good job of showing the K-Line is longer, taller, wider. IF I had your layout I might be a little bit pickier but I feel S scale is not the scale to get that picky. To me the realism is just not there. When I first came to S scale I noticed everything. It has taken me a few years to learn to not sweat the small stuff. Start with Gilbert track. While much better than O scale 3 rail , the Gilbert track lacks realism. I have a dfferent
mindset with S than I had with HO. I do not want to upset anybody, its just my opinion. Tom, your layout and some of your nicer locomotives are exceptions. The detail is there. Gilbert engines are not that detailed. I love them. Different mindset. Hope I am making sense and not offending anyone. Again just my opinion


----------



## AFGP9

Sure do like the looks of that 4014 Tom. Even setting by itself on the bare carpet it looks big. Yes I do know the Edward Hines Lumbar Co. stores from radio commercials primarily ran on WLS radio.
Mopac, Concerning the various sizes from one manufacturer to another as far scale goes, I have some Showcase series cars. Compared to the original AF cars they are slightly bigger in all aspects. The thing is, back when mixed freight trains were more common as oppose to today's more common container trains, there was always a mixture of sizes in the prototype consist. It I choose to mix brands it really doesn't seem to matter visually. Now I wouldn't run the same car, as in the two different Merchandise cars as you show mopac together since the difference would be obvious. I would run them maybe a couple of cars apart. Just my preference. I can remember several different size gondola cars in the same train plus different sized box cars. If ya got 'em, run 'em I say.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

It is interesting to me how my tastes and preferences in model railroading evolved over the years. In the 1960's both HO and N scales were tried in parallel with S gauge but they did not hold my interest. By 1972 those smaller scales were all gone. There was a time when I thought Gilbert track in rubber roadbed was all I could ever want. The engines looked detailed to me and all the cars looked like they belonged together. I always tried to get the maximum number of operating accessories on a layout. Plasticville was good enough for buildings and houses.
I think the driver of my move to scale like details began when I first bought some Snow Village buildings in 1985. This was followed by the availability of Racing Champions 1/64 scale cars and AHL 1/64 scale trucks. More detailed scenes were now possible. Operating accessories began to disappear from my layouts in favor of more Snow Village buildings. Next was adding AM engines and SHS track. Now my layouts became much more scale focused. In 2005 I bought some TMCC engines and a Legacy command base, primarily because the SHS turnouts were not power routing, a major PITA! Legacy solved this problem for me.
In 1995 a decades long planning effort for my dream permanent layout began. The first designs used GarGraves flex track and Gilbert turnouts. There were a lot of operating accessories in the track plans. Ongoing job related relocations kept these as just plans. The final move back to SoCal was in 2003 but then frequent overseas travel plus unending domestic travel made it hard to make progress. On the plus (?) side I accrued over 5 million frequent flier miles and top tier perks on three major airlines.
In 2015 I made a decision to have a layout built, otherwise there likely never would have been a layout. The rigorous planning and design approval process drove the final scale like appearance of the layout. After using the layout four years I remain satisfied with all my decisions about the layout details. So here we are today, most of the rolling stock on the layout is SHS/MTH, next, modern Lionel AF followed by Gilbert with the least. I run no Gilbert engines on that layout.
As a result of this history I truly appreciate all layouts people build no matter the scale or the detailing. Some of my favorite layouts continue to be the old style all Gilbert layouts. Even Lionel 3 rail layouts look good to me, but my favorite Lionel layouts are those made with Super O track. I am fortunate I have room in my home office for a 7'x13' second layout. So far that has only been track on the floor, but someday there will be an all Gilbert layout in that space.

The AM box cars were based on a 1940's ARA car with 10' interior height and updated end panels and roof. Not sure which prototype is used for the AM 50' box cars. SHS utilized the design of steel rebuilt USRA cars for their 40' cars.


----------



## AmFlyer

As I mentioned above the American Models 40’ box cars are based on a newer version of the ARA X29 standard. The AM prototype car has a 10’ internal height vs the 8’-7” of the Gilbert prototype. Here are some pictures that show the differences in car height, roof detail and end details between the cars. I run these intermixed on my layout with no appearance issues. 
The K-Line cars might be slightly taller than the AM cars. I asked my wife to purchase a #018 UP for me. I will post pictures if it shows up, my wife currently has the request “under advisement.”


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## Mikeh49

Good info and appreciate your thoughts on layouts, etc. Thanks.


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Mike.


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## AFGP9

Thanks for the comparison pictures Tom. If those were running in the same train with a car or two between them the difference would not be noticeable. As I said earlier, that would be prototypical of the real thing since not all box cars were built the same since some were built in different eras. 
My evolvement in model rail roading was more me thinking I didn't have enough space to build what I wanted with American Flyer. I had my 1954 American Flyer Christmas set but after I was about 10 years old my dad moved us to Arizona then back to Illinois. That train set never left the box for the next 10-12 years. I got into HO for a while during the Athern Blue Box era and acquired a good sized collection of cars and engines, before all the electronics came on. Just power routing Piko switches and MRC controllers like Rail Power 1300, MRC Control Master, and Tech 3 and so much nickel silver track, mostly 3' sections. I bought whatever AF pieces I found and could afford plus with each HO layout I was honing my modeling skills. I still have all of my HO stuff. Don't know why. Nostalgia? I got heavily into drag racing and later late model dirt track stock car racing and just cars in general.. For the next 25 years, model trains took a back seat. No time. No extra money. 
18 years ago I finally bought a house with all the basement room I needed. There never was any doubt I was going to build an all American Flyer layout using the scenery skills I learned in my HO days. Track ballasting, mountains, scenery, and land forms. At first, just like Tom. I had several AF operating accessories. As time went on, those things were less important. I needed more track space so they either got stored away or went on eBay. The collector in me now wishes I kept all of it and just stored it. Up until 2 or 3 years ago I never bought any rolling stock unless it was pure American Flyer. Not even Flyoniel. Now you will find some SHS, AM, and Lionel made American Flyer cars on the track. All of my engines are American Flyer. I was tempted by mopac to get a Berkshire when he got his because it is such a nice engine. The only non major American Flyer thing I acquired and adapted to my system was Lionel's TMCC. Huge jump for me in technology and earning curve. I don't have any pure TMCC locomotives but I can control my conventional AF locomotives with the TMCC system and a hand held controller with a 275 ZW for my power source. I got 2 30B AF transformers but not in use. There are other smaller AF transformers supplying power for various uses such as AF switches, lights and a few action accessories. I was so glad when Johnny Lightning and Greenlight came out with their 1/64 scale vehicles as well as AHL trucks. It took a while but I finally got my American Flyer layout. Of course it is never done, always evolving. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Kenny, I am hoping I build me an AF layout. It won't be huge or elaborate. I do want 2 or 3 separate loops.
Maybe 12 X 10. L shaped.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, I run those boxcars back to back in several trains. The eye does not really see it and these varying car heights are prototypical for layouts set in the 40's and 50's.


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## AFGP9

Tom talk about how the eye does not really see the slight difference, after I wrote that I went down to the layout to look at a string of 10 cars I have on a passing siding. 3 of the 10 are not AF. 1 is an AM box car and the other 2 are Showcase. box cars. That means when I put them together I never noticed the height and width difference. Since my layout is a mostly 40's and very early 50's theme, it makes perfect since.

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Mopac, something is more than nothing. 10 x 12 should be fine. As I said, all those years I thought I needed more space, which was true in some cases, I probably could have still set up an adequate layout but was so set on a certain size and shape.

Kenny


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## mopac

The plan Kenny is to use K-Line wide curves for 3 loops following the L shape. I am 2 pieces short of
having enough of the wide curves.


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## AmFlyer

There are 10 pieces on eBay right now including the rubber roadbed. The 27" radius roadbed is hard to find.


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## AmFlyer

My wife purchased the K-Line UP box car for me. Thanks Mopac, just what I need, another brand to collect. When it shows up I will post pictures of how it looks behind 4014.


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## mopac

That was quick Tom. I think I will only buy K-Line s scale if I find them cheap.
That UP car is good looking. Congrats.


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## AmFlyer

I though it would be better to put these pictures in this thread. The one I started on the K-Line cars is fairly complete. This is the Legacy Y3 pulling a freight train. I tried putting the K-Line car next to the tender but it looked too tall so I put it between some MTH Fishbelly hoppers and some MTH covered hoppers.


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## mopac

I have wanted one of these AF 750 bridge for awhile. Never saw an office on top of a bridge but they lookgood on an AF layout. Seller rated this one a C7. I would not have rated it that high but it is a nice one. The 2 cross supports that hold the office were bent down (able to bend the supports back up) and it has a few paint chips. Over all pretty good. It came from Chicago from a resell shop. I was going through recent listings and it was a BIN. Cheap shipping. Jumped on it. I have seen one of these in Howard's and Al's pics. It came today. Happy, Happy, Happy. Did not wait for sun to move around to wall so it is in the shade.


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## AmFlyer

Those trestle bridges are nice. Here is mine just sitting in a floor layout in the living room. I think they add a lot to any layout.


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## alaft61ri

This is mine


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## mopac

Nice layout Al.


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## alaft61ri

Thanks here is a newer picture of lay.out


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## mopac

Layout looking good Al. Nice 336. How is it running?


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## alaft61ri

Runs great one of my best repairs I did and it move.
Thanks Al


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## alaft61ri

Thankyou


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## HowardH

I know this discussion isn't about members posting pics of themselves, but found one of big sister and me from over sixty years ago. Wish I could make out label on box - would be nice to know what it was I was playing with.


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## alaft61ri

Taking some guesses thinking prewar maybe Marx flyer blue picture up looked with magnificent glass see letter s end letter l the guys on forum would know more. Good luck went on Google couldn't find anything.
Al


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## AmFlyer

Nice picture. The box label says Steel Train. It appears to be a Marx wind up set. Someone has placed the box car between the engine and tender. It looks like you are turning the wind up key. I had a similar Marx wind up set from about 1954. My engine and tender were black, looks like the same caboose. That set is larger with the figure 8 track. Mine was an oval.


----------



## HowardH

Thanks! From my age, the set would’ve been around three years later than yours. Maybe my last set before Dad brought home AF.


----------



## mopac

Howard cool, pic of you and sis. You can post what ever pic you want to show. No one will say a thing.
I started this thread so I can say these things. We love photos .


----------



## AmFlyer

Your dad was apparently partial to two rail track.


----------



## AmFlyer

I happen to have a compendium of all the Sears Wish Book train pages from 1950 through 1969. Since Sears sold Marx trains maybe Howard's train above was included. Unfortunately it is not, but that only means it was not advertised in the Wish Book.
There were two items of interest, to me at least. First is a wind up train similar to the one I had. Mine had less track and the engine was only one speed. Below is a picture of it in the 1954 Wish Book. My train was purchased at the Pittsburgh Mercantile Company which most always undercut stores like Sears. It was the Jones and Laughlin Steel Company "company store." The items sold in it usually had fewer features.
The second picture shows a plastic Marx box car in the 1954 catalog that was made using the molds that were much later (in 2003) used to make the K-Line S gauge cars.


----------



## AmFlyer

For comparison with the above picture here is a K-Line Santa Fe box car behind a Santa Fe U36 diesel and behind a Santa Fe Y3 steam engine.


----------



## mopac

Last week I showed a black AF trestle bridge I bought. I bought a red girder bridge that is not
here yet. I think it may be made by Marx. Tom, any red bridges in those catalogs you have.
Each end of bridge has "Wabash" on it. I will show when it gets here. I also have a couple cars coming. One, a NH 984.
I have never seen the red bridge before.

Update - The red bridge is a trestle bridge not a girder bridge. I do also have a girder bridge coming.
It was bought with the red bridge. Great price on both.


----------



## AmFlyer

The Marx bridge I have and others I have seen are gray. When you get yours I will compare it to those in the wish book. I will need to read the descriptions since most of the pages are black and white.


----------



## mopac

Here is the Ebay listing. $14.50 for both bridges. Sounds good to me.
Pics are decent on listing.

American Flyer Lackawanna Girder Bridge and Unmarked Red Trestle Bridge Vintage | eBay


----------



## AmFlyer

I wonder why the seller has the blue trays for the 716 coal dump car upside down. He must not know what they are.
Here is your new red bridge, a Marx 1320 Wabash. A spot light was available to attach to the top center of the bridge. The 1320 was also made in silver. 
My silver Marx bridge is a different design with two additional vertical members on each side of the bridge, I believe it is a 1350.


----------



## AmFlyer

Today is Sunday, the day before Halloween. Here in SoCal it is sunny and 70 near the beach. Tomorrow the temperature is supposed to drop and 1/4" of rain is predicted. While it is unreasonably early, I decided to take advantage of the great weather to put up some new Christmas lights. We have 120' of glass fence enclosing the back yard so I thought it would be nice to put some clear LED lights on it. There are clips made specifically for this application but there is a lot of custom cutting, splicing, soldering and taping to create the precise fit light strings. The new commercial grade LED Christmas lights are far better than ones I bought seven years ago. I have a 1,000' spool of commercial grade C9 light sockets on 15" centers so it took 99 lights to cover the 120". Picture below.
I am still debating whether or not to put up a Christmas layout this year. I really hate it when I debate with myself and loose! Tomorrow I will be back to the trains, with all the shipping delays I doubt if the new cars I ordered from Lionel will get here this year.


----------



## alaft61ri

Cool isn't holloween the 31st.lol


----------



## AmFlyer

That is right, I should have checked the calendar! I am even more early than I realized. We will not be home next weekend so it still works out for me.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here they are about 15 minutes after sunset. I cannot believe how nice these new commercial Christmas bulbs look.


----------



## mopac

After our new patios and wall were completed I did our complete roof with white LEDs. It was beautiful. The people behind us called, the people on sides of us called. They really appreciated all the work I had done. It was so much work it never happened again. They look good Tom, I am sure any of the people that can see them will be happy.

I am getting behind with my pics of new to me items. I got a new PFE car, a red 633 ( watching for a white one, my Marx bridge made it, along with the AF girder bridge, the 2 coal bins, got a nice 984 NH car, I bought a 336 northern today, that will give me 2 332ACs, 2 K335s, and 2 336s. Why 2 of each, I have no idea. Seller had a 325.00 Buy It Now or best offer on the 336. I offered 285.00 and he took it. Suppose to run strong, large motor. Looks complete except one number board missing. Should be worth 285.00, plus shipping of coarse. The new to me 336 has pulmor. Out of 6 northerns this will be the only one with pulmor wheels. Just seemed like a good deal so I bought it. I can't pass on a good deal. My other 336 almost looks like it just rolled out of the paint shop. It is original paint. I paid 425.00 for it. It is nice. New one does have some paint chips, but still a nice looking steamer. I will get pics of all the new stuff soon.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, you have been active on the acquisition front. I suppose we can expect some pictures in the "what have I added to my roster" section.


----------



## mopac

There and photo of the day. I tend to put engines in "added to roster" and cars
in "photo of the day". Any way is acceptable. I have still not unpacked my FlyerChief #1225.
I might paint my red Marx bridge black. Just so it matches my AF bridge better.


----------



## AmFlyer

I would have unpacked the 1225 as soon as it came in the door, filled it with smoke fluid and enjoyed the clouds of AF cedar scented smoke.!


----------



## mopac

#1225 is for Christmas. A little early yet.


----------



## HowardH

Remember local TV after-school kids' shows of some sixty years ago? Growing up in Seattle, mine was "Brakeman Bill". I was into Popeye and Betty Boop, but more into that he was running American Flyer, like I was. Got his pic, though since he didn't personalize it, I added my name myself. Later he abandoned AF and instead brought in this guy to give day-by-day demonstrations of his new book, "HO Railroad That Grows". I felt utterly betrayed.


----------



## mopac

Cool pic.


----------



## AmFlyer

We did not have anything like Brakeman Bill in Pittsburgh.


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## mopac

Not a good sunny day but got in the mood to finally get these pics done.
First are 2 bridges got for 14.50 plus shipping. also got 2 blue coal bins
with the bridges. The red trestle is Marx. might paint it black to more match
the AF trestle bridge I got.


----------



## mopac

Now for some new to me cars.

NIB 3 dome track cleaner fluid car, a nice 984 box car.


----------



## mopac

Ok, 2 more that need a bath.Both have plastic frames so no rust on frames.
633 box car and 630 caboose. I want a white 633.










And final car is a Pacific Fruit Express. 6-48808 NIB 20.00


----------



## AmFlyer

There are a lot of nice new acquisitions. I hope they will not be forced to spend too much time hidden away in storage.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Ok, 2 more that need a bath.Both have plastic frames so no rust on frames.
> 633 box car and 630 caboose. I want a white 633.
> 
> View attachment 569758
> 
> 
> And final car is a Pacific Fruit Express. 6-48808 NIB 20.00
> 
> View attachment 569759


I have a mint white 633 box car, in fact I just found it while re-doing link couplers.


----------



## AmFlyer

I missed that the 630 and red 633 had unweighted couplers. I hope the 633 cleans up well.


----------



## mopac

think it will Tom. Seems I got the red 633 and the caboose for 4.50 plus shipping.
What year would the couplers with no weight be from. '49 maybe,


----------



## AmFlyer

Thin shank, 1946; thick shank, 1947. Since the 633 is unpainted red, it should be a 1947 with thick shank couplers and a die cast chassis. Of course red unpainted 633's were made in 1948 and beyond but they would have coupler weights. Plastic chassis were supposedly only used on 1946 cars and the only documented 1946 633's were all tuscan or tuscan/white.


----------



## mopac

curiouser and curiouser. At first I thought the frames were die cast, then decided they were plastic.
Might have to take a knife to them. Thanks for the info.


----------



## AmFlyer

The plastic frames are shiny and usually have a bow in them. The diecast feel kind of "grippy" when sliding a finger along them. The diecast are also much heavier.


----------



## mopac

I will take a pic and maybe you can tell me what got. No bow in these. My first impression was diecast. Are the diecast
and plastic shaped the same.


----------



## AmFlyer

I think the diecast and plastic frames are the same design.


----------



## mopac

I found 3 new to me cars in the mailbox this week.
First is a very nice 928 flat car with wood load.
Second is a NIB C&NW caboose.
Third is a custom B&O caboose.


----------



## AmFlyer

The Lionel AF C&NW caboose looks good. I was not aware you were a B&O fan. However that lettering was done (decals?) it looks good.


----------



## mopac

It is decals but done well. I think my Royal Blue is the only B&O engine I have.
I do have a C&O passenger train. I already had a B&O Lionel bay window caboose.
So I did not need the custom but one of them can sit on a siding. I do like the custom.
It was only $11 something. Someday I will paint 2 or 3 red or green AF passenger cars
royal blue and use the Royal Blue engine for what it looks like it should be. I was born in
West Virginia but moved away young but going back to see my grandparents I saw B&O
and C&O trains. No B&O in Missouri. I have lived in many states. Mainly in the midwest
from Michigan down to Texas.


----------



## AmFlyer

If you are going to paint passenger cars blue the easiest cars to paint are the silver bullet cars. The hardest are the Bakelite heavyweights and the unpainted plastic 650's. It takes some special prep work to add tooth to the plastic for the paint to stick. The painted 650's are like the silver bullets, but I think all the painted versions (different plastic than the unpainted) came with sheet metal chassis, no steps.


----------



## mopac

Bummer on the steps. Thanks for the info though.


----------



## AmFlyer

I would paint the cars that were originally painted, then just swap chassis to get steps and underbody detail.


----------



## mopac

I have 2 AF cars without steps. I will use those bodies. Thanks.


----------



## AmFlyer

The 2021 Christmas season is underway here. The maintenance personnel at the station have hung large wreaths. The first Christmas train is in operation.


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are a few pictures taken today.


----------



## mopac

Here are 2 cars I got this week. Both are NIB.

1. 1994 Nasg Commemorative Car - NP 6-48485
2. 2005 Rea TOFC - REA 6-48539


----------



## AmFlyer

Those are nice additions. Like them both but have neither one.


----------



## mopac

Found these 2 items in my mailbox today.
1. A PRR box car. Not new but little run time. 4-9705
2. A set of lamps. I have admired these for a couple years. $14.99 for the 3 was the cheapest
I had seen. I don't know who made these. Tom may know. I thought these were metal. Not.
They are in nice condition. No cracks. They are bigger than I thought. I guess I will use them
around a station. No boxes.


----------



## mopac

I need to stop buying rolling stock. I have plenty. More than I will ever use.


----------



## AmFlyer

Those are the Gilbert #778 street lamp set.
Nice PRR boxcar.


----------



## HowardH

Came across this of the wife and me on trip to visit family in Seattle a dozen years ago. I'm running S-gauge; my brother let me run his of a slightly larger gauge. (Ottaway amusement park steamer, circa 1948-1950.)


----------



## mopac

Very cool.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac, my first day back on the site for a wjhile and what do I see but some very nice additions you've added. I too have that 6-48539 REA TOFC and the 6-48485 Pennsy box car. You got some nice cars. Really like the CNW caboose too. I have yet to find a decent one yet.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom as I expected you have started your Christmas train. The other trains you are running that you posted look outstanding. I have a lot of Christmas cars to post but no Christmas tree layout. Haven't been home long enough to get that done.


----------



## AmFlyer

I put a christmas train on the layout and hung some scale decorations on the train station. However its almost Christmas and I sit here working in my office looking at this big empty space in front of me. Now it has a 5'x12' enhanced oval with one siding on the carpet. Some Plasticville added and an AF train (all link couplers) is running. The track is 30" radius SHS. The SHS turnouts are not made with the 2-train feature so there is no quick way to shut off power to the siding like with a Gilbert turnout.


----------



## mopac

Pretty cool Tom. Better than I have. I might put some K-Line track down on basement floor so I can try out my new AM locomotives (E8s and GP9) Christmas Eve and Christmas day. These locos I have not run yet.
I have some Fastrak but not enough. I also have 4 manual turnouts. I bought a couple expander sets.


----------



## AmFlyer

It is easier to put the track on the warm carpet in my office than on a cold basement floor, I have done both. Here is a picture of the siding with the bumper installed, for the moment the track is complete.
The other two pictures are the Christmas train on the layout. The motive power has been changed to an Alco FA/FB set from American Models.


----------



## mopac

also have a new FlyerChief berk I have not run


----------



## mopac

I also have a new FlyerChief berk I have not run.

Sorry for double post.. I did not see the first one and did a second.


----------



## AFGP9

The office floor set up looks good to me Tom. Something is better than nothing. It looks like might have taken a little time to set up.

The Christmas train pulled by the darker color Alco FA/FB units makes the Christmas cars stand out as does the scenery behind them. Nice looking. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Kenny. I have a Christmas diesel but is is running erratic. Its basically new, everything is clean and I am done fooling with it so its parked on a spare track at the roundhouse. I also have a Christmas Docksider, might have to get that out and try it tomorrow.
The track on the office floor took about an hour to set up. It is much faster to snap the SHS track together than fool with the Gilbert track and roadbed. All the trains except the passenger cars were on the layout in the train room. Kind of a "grab and go." I keep the transformer in my office and its just two wires to clips on the track for power.
My wife took a look at it and said the town was too sparse. Might need to get some more buildings out.


----------



## AmFlyer

It has been 15 days since a Photo of the Day has been posted. Here is a picture I took this afternoon, the Pittsburgh PCC car is operating in this scene. The lights are on as it runs.
Also included is a picture of a restored 1700 series car at the Heinz Museum in Pittsburgh. 1724 in the museum was part of the 25 car order for interurban service. It has an additional headlight on the roof, a dramatically sloped back and rounded off right front windshield, and not visible, B-3 trucks plus reinforced bodies and opening rear windows. 1795 on my layout was part of the final PCC order. It had none of those four items.


----------



## TimmyD

That is a pretty train car!


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, Corgi sold a lot of PCC cars, they were unpowered display items. Very few were retrofitted with an S gauge powered chassis.


----------



## AFGP9

Very nice Tom. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Took some more pictures today and decided to put them here in the Photo of The Day thread since it has been 17 days since the last post here. The subject is the Legacy Challenger, made way back in 2010. It would be a good candidate for a rerun by Lionel with all the current Legacy updates. It fits easily on the 22" turntable although the body structure overhangs by 1/2" on each end.


----------



## mopac

Looks great Tom. Beautiful locomotive. I have seen the real 3985 here in St Lous. Your layout pics always look good.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Mopac. I wanted full sun on the engine area but I was half an hour too late so there is only partial sun for these pictures.
I did not know 3985 was on display at St Louis.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thinking about details on the 2022 rerun of the Y3 and details on the 2010 Challenger led me to photograph the NP Challenger. UP on the right, NP on the left. In addition to painting detail differences the smokebox casting for the UP is different that for the NP. Two stacks vs one stack. I hope Lionel keeps doing this level of specific details.


----------



## AFGP9

As always good looking engines. Love the details on them. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Tom, 3985 just made a visit here. Not on display here. Maybe for a day or two.
We do have the only Y4, really only Y left period. I do have a nice Y6 in HO.
N&W had some big steam.


----------



## mopac

Found 2 new to me items in my mailbox this week. They are from ebay.

First is a nice Canadian Pacific Box car. Not NIB but very close. Not a scratch
on it. 13.00 something plus shipping.6-48302.

Second, I must admit is not what I thought it was. I like it. I have wanted a
"American Flyer Authorized Service Station" sign. I thought I had the deal of the year.
They are normally 20.00 to 200.00. This was 8 something BIN. I jumped quick.
It is like new. Never seen one before. It is a refridgerator magnet. Perfect to attach
to a building on the layout. Seller had nothing in the pics to relate size to. On purpose.
It is metal with a magnet attached. Sign is leaning against a tender. Picture wall is snow covered.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I picked up one of those refrigerator magnets at a train show. I like it, but would be irritated by what happened to you. The CP boxcar is nice, I have one on the layout. It is simply decorated but stands out in a good way on the layout.
Here are pictures of the two full size metal signs I have. The white one is in the train room, the red one is outside the room over the door so it is visible walking along the hallway. I think I paid $25 for each one at a train show.


----------



## AmFlyer

The store at oldtimesigns.net has the AF red sign that is above my train room door. Their price is $25, the same I paid 15 years ago for it. They do not list the service station sign. finewebstores.com has both signs for $29.95 ea.


----------



## mopac

Nice signs Tom. I like. Thanks for the info. The little sign is a Lionel product.
Look at bottom right on my pic.


----------



## AmFlyer

Got it. All three are licensed by Lionel, for some reason only the fridge magnet has that licensing note in the artwork.


----------



## flyernut

I also have the service station sign.


----------



## mopac

Some sellers try to sell those signs as old vintage signs. Like the metal signs from old service stations.
I have seen them listed at 200.00. I watch ebay alot and have seen some crazy high prices lately.

flyernut, you of all people should have one. Cool.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Some sellers try to sell those signs as old vintage signs. Like the metal signs from old service stations.
> I have seen them listed at 200.00. I watch ebay alot and have seen some crazy high prices lately.
> 
> flyernut, you of all people should have one. Cool.


Mine cost me ZERO..a good buddy of mine gave it to me.


----------



## mopac

Zero is a good price. You have a knack for items at a cheap price. You have good buddys.

I really need to get a layout built and then a repair table. I probably have 20 engines I have
not gone through yet. I have enough that run good

We should get a good snow melt today. High of 50. We get 4 degrees one day and 50 two
days later. Welcome to Missouri.

Some how my mailbox got knocked off the post during the snow storm. Probably the snow
plow had something to do with it. Its a good mailbox. Lots of good stuff come out of it. I have
missed 2 big train shows already this year. Mainly HO shows but a little S scale. I want a
S scale diesel RailSounds box car. One on ebay now but up to 169.00. More than I want to pay.
I want it for my American Models engine without sound. 100.00 is more realistic price. They
have good sound with good horn.


----------



## AmFlyer

Once again, time to bring this back to the top of the postings. I have three UP SD70ACe's that just will not run well, if at all. One had a bad Legacy board which was replaced, but none of the three ran consistently, one "ran" not at all. All three now run perfectly but how they were repaired will be the subject of another thread.
In order to test those engines in conventional mode plus a Berkshire that is having issues I assembled a loop of track on the floor. With the SHS track I had in my office it made a 5'x14' oval. Here are some pictures. I discovered that I only have two pieces of Nickle Plate Road rolling stock to use with the Berkshire. All the engines smoked surprisingly well with just 8V on the track in conventional.


----------



## mopac

Good pics Tom. The SD70s are awesome. My Berks smoke well also. We do need this thread near the top.


----------



## AmFlyer

I will not let it fade away!


----------



## AFGP9

Good looking engines you have there Tom. Nice smoke from the Berk. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Tom I have one of those red American Flyer signs too and plus another sign but I don't remember what is says. If I wasn't so lazy I'd go down and look. I'll take a look in the morning. Also got some Lionel signs around the train room. All are mounted on the front valance of my layout. Although I don't own any Lionel, I just liked the looks of them. 

Mopac that's a nice sign you have there even though the seller sounds like he is a little shady. That would look good on my refrigerator with my other different magnets. Nice CP box car. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

There seem to be a lot more Lionel signs available than American Flyer. Years ago the Gilbert catalog covers were done as metal signs (and refrigerator magnets) but I have not seen them in quite a while.


----------



## AmFlyer

While I was at my desk replying to the earlier posts I began hearing some strange sounding noise. Looked out the window and the sun was shining over the ocean but we were having an intense hailstorm over the house! Maybe every five years or so there will be hail at one of the beaches, it always makes the news. This is a first for there to be hail at our house. The outside temperature this AM is about 55 degrees and the surface temperature is between 55 and 60 degrees so the small hailstones that hit pavement melted quickly. I did get a few pictures of hail on our patio chairs. It snowed in the mountains overnight, the ski slopes above Big Bear received a foot and there was an inch or so all the way down to 3,500 feet.


----------



## mopac

If you are going to get hail, that is the size you want. I was sitting with the dealership owner
and all of the sudden hail started pounding the metal roof. Really made some noise. We both knew what it was. The owner is yelling YES Yes. I am yelling NO NO. The owner knows he is about to make a bunch of money. I know, as sales manager, I have a bunch of damaged cars to get rid of with a portion of what the insurance pays. Owner keeps the rest. This was hail about the size of quarters. I hated hail. Who wants a new car with a bunch of dimples. We would get some of the cars repaired with the paintless dent removal method. Owner made money on those also. And then the owner would beat those guys out of money after they repaired maybe 100 cars. There is a place in hell for dealership owners. The buyers had to sign a form that they knew car had hail damage and it had to be repaired. The cars looked good after repair but I think the hail damage stayed on the history of the car. Like Car Fax. I had to go through maybe 3 or 4 hail events.


----------



## AmFlyer

I agree. The few times we get hail it is very small slush pellets. They do no damage. Nothing like parts of the country that can get golf ball or even tennis ball size hail stones.
I cannot imagine working at a car dealership. Now must be interesting with the inability to get inventory, at least the floor planning interest will be low. Many car dealers out here now have drive up areas for instant purchase of used cars.


----------



## mopac

The worst hail damaged car I ever saw looked like someone took a baseball bat to it. It was in
a softball sized hail storm in Oklahoma. All the damage was on one side. The wind was blowing hard
and I guess that protected the undamaged side. I never had to ( or lucky enough) to sell cars during a car shortage. I am
sure everybody pays sticker. The best car sales I had was right after 9--11. Car sales had stopped
and they brought out 0% financing. Best car sales ever for me. Spoiled the people though. Rates went
to 1.9% and they said "Oh no that is too much". I remember car loans at 14%. Maybe higher. If you
notice car rates have been cheap for many years.


----------



## AmFlyer

I saw a report yesterday that 80% of all car sales in the past 30 days were above sticker. Glad I do not need a new car for some time. Last month a guy left a note on one of our convertibles asking if we would sell it to him. My wife said no since she is the one that usually drives it.


----------



## TimmyD

I don't pride myself on my photos, but I had to take one this evening. My daughter has started pointing up at my train shelf and asking to play trains more and more lately, and I love it! Here we have our race official assessing the situation as the 300AC pulling 4 cars continues to outperform and catch the 21160 pulling only one caboose... I do need to do a little more work on the 21160 pick up wheels, but it also has a weird front end jump in the corners. everything seems in line with the pilot truck, maybe I will check the linkage for interference. Anyway, the 21160 was truly resurected from a junk bin, but I will see if I can get er going a little better! My daughter turns 2 in a week, I am gettting her some wooden track trains (Brio/Thomas type) for her birthday, it is hard when I am supposed to be working and she is asking me to get mine out! She always wins over work!


----------



## AmFlyer

I guess that is one of the challenges of working from home. The 300AC has the better motor, not surprising it will outrun the 21160 on level track with a light load.


----------



## mopac

Cute pic Timmy. Thats a keeper.

I do not have any 5 digit locomotives and I will try to keep it like that. I do have one loco that is half 5 digit
and half 3 digit. I have trouble with the 5 digit half. No more for me. Not sure if I got scammed or bought from someone that did not know squat about Flyers. Thought I was buying a 303 and it
turned out to be a frankenstein. It was cheap so not losing sleep over it. The shell and cab number was 303. It does run. Has a 5 digit chassis. 3 digit motor. It will be a parts donor.


----------



## TimmyD

mopac said:


> Cute pic Timmy. Thats a keeper.
> 
> I do not have any 5 digit locomotives and I will try to keep it like that. I do have one loco that is half 5 digit
> and half 3 digit. I have trouble with the 5 digit half. No more for me. Not sure if I got scammed or bought from someone that did not know squat about Flyers. Thought I was buying a 303 and it
> turned out to be a frankenstein. It was cheap so not losing sleep over it. The shell and cab number was 303. It does run. Has a 5 digit chassis. 3 digit motor. It will be a parts donor.


Thanks mopac, she is definitely a keeper! Yeah, I don't expect to ever seek out a 5 digit, this one and a 283 I still need to work on were obtained in parts in the bottom of a bin of track I bought. I was excited to get it going again as with any engine, and it is nice to have one or two around that I am not worried about getting kicked over or picked up and swung around! She will learn respect for dad's things, but now it is best to just keep the ones that mean something to me put up for the most part! I am just ecstatic she wants to play with them, makes it all worth it.


----------



## AmFlyer

All Gilbert collectors and operators need at least one 5 digit engine. The PRR B6sb 0-6-0 is a detailed scale model of the real PRR switcher. There is no 3 digit version and it is too nice to ignore. Either the 21004 or 21005, or both, is a must have.


----------



## mopac

Have at it Tom. Not for me.


----------



## BigGRacing

My photo of the day, my HO scale cannons for my dockyard gun shop


----------



## AmFlyer

Nicely detailed cannons, interesting gun shop you have planned.


----------



## flyernut

BigGRacing said:


> My photo of the day, my HO scale cannons for my dockyard gun shop
> 
> View attachment 578064


Are they NYS compliant???....lol, being sarcastic.


----------



## AmFlyer

The motto of the Gun Shop above the entry could be "We sell No weaponry that is legal to own."


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, sometimes an engine is so nice we just have to put our big boy pants on and go for it. I have two 21004's and two 21005's. They run great, especially on SHS and FasTrack, never had a problem with one. Two of them came with an original boxed set, that is why I have four.


----------



## BigGRacing

flyernut said:


> Are they NYS compliant???....lol, being sarcastic.


But of course…..lol


----------



## mopac

Tom, I agree they look great.
Gary, nice guns. Are they done with 3D printing?


----------



## AFGP9

mopac said:


> If you are going to get hail, that is the size you want. I was sitting with the dealership owner
> and all of the sudden hail started pounding the metal roof. Really made some noise. We both knew what it was. The owner is yelling YES Yes. I am yelling NO NO. The owner knows he is about to make a bunch of money. I know, as sales manager, I have a bunch of damaged cars to get rid of with a portion of what the insurance pays. Owner keeps the rest. This was hail about the size of quarters. I hated hail. Who wants a new car with a bunch of dimples. We would get some of the cars repaired with the paintless dent removal method. Owner made money on those also. And then the owner would beat those guys out of money after they repaired maybe 100 cars. There is a place in hell for dealership owners. The buyers had to sign a form that they knew car had hail damage and it had to be repaired. The cars looked good after repair but I think the hail damage stayed on the history of the car. Like Car Fax. I had to go through maybe 3 or 4 hail events.


Mopac you are so right about there being a special place in Hell for dealer owners. Having worked for 3 in my 30 years, they are all alike. You know what I mean so I won't go into the reasons. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> I agree. The few times we get hail it is very small slush pellets. They do no damage. Nothing like parts of the country that can get golf ball or even tennis ball size hail stones.
> I cannot imagine working at a car dealership. Now must be interesting with the inability to get inventory, at least the floor planning interest will be low. Many car dealers out here now have drive up areas for instant purchase of used cars.


Tom I have heard about those drive up dealer vehicle buying places. There are some around here. I know a couple of guys who have taken advantage of that procedure and have come out ahead. You're so right about the floor plan cost. Even though they may have a thin new vehicle inventory they are killing it in the net sales side. I talked to a couple of my dealer General Manager friends at 2 different dealerships. They told me they are getting 20-25% over retail market. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Regarding the 5 digit engines, I have a 21084 and 21085, both C&NW, and both are good runners. If I ever see a nice 21004 like you have there Tom I'd be tempted to add it to my 5 digit engines.

Kenny


----------



## BigGRacing

mopac said:


> Are they done with 3D printing?


Yes, they are 3D printed and being edited as we go, we are building two different scale ships, with 5”, 3” and 50 cal mounts is the plan. I am using all the test prints and parts for my gun shop. Tested the fit today on a flat car, and you can maybe get 1 5“ mount on a flatbed unless I rotate them at an angle.


----------



## flyernut

BigGRacing said:


> Yes, they are 3D printed and being edited as we go, we are building two different scale ships, with 5”, 3” and 50 cal mounts is the plan. I am using all the test prints and parts for my gun shop. Tested the fit today on a flat car, and you can maybe get 1 5“ mount on a flatbed unless I rotate them at an angle.


I have a couple of rounds for your guns,lol.


----------



## BigGRacing

flyernut said:


> for your guns


Yes, I saw many of them given away as momentos in the past, built a few myself along with a gunnery annual event trophy. I never ever wanted one for myself as I worked with them all the time I guess. Is that a 76mm or 3” type replica?


----------



## flyernut

BigGRacing said:


> Yes, I saw many of them given away as momentos in the past, built a few myself along with a gunnery annual event trophy. I never ever wanted one for myself as I worked with them all the time I guess. Is that a 76mm or 3” type replica?


I'm not sure. It isn't a 105mm as the 105mm is bigger in diameter, but shorter in length. I was told these were Naval practise rounds, if that's any type of clue for you.. I'm a old cannon cocker, Field Arty, from back in the early 70's.


----------



## Sagas

When I bought this GP-7 I did not think it was actually a 21831 based on the amount of glue around the number boards and paid no attention to anything else other than the fact it looked in good shape, ran and the price was right. The plan was to change the number boards back to 377 and mate it with my 378 (my original 377 being lost in a move). However, after getting it home discovered it had the correct reverse unit and double stamped shell which possibly may have been renumbered from 377 or 378 (part of the 21908 set from 57') for the 58' catalogue. If so it was a pretty sloppy job.


----------



## AmFlyer

Very interesting piece. I never saw one with two factory date stamps. Apparently made in 1957 as a 377 which would have a 4 position reverse unit. It must have not been sold so it was restamped May 1958 after installing 21831 number boards. I am assuming the 4 position reverse unit was left in the engine. You have a so far unreported variation.


----------



## Sagas

The chassis has the new reverse unit as pictured below so I believe they just changed the shell and re-stamped since they may have had a slight surplus of the old numbered ones. Not really a true variation I think. I was just curious if anyone else had encountered the same thing. Barry


----------



## BigGRacing

flyernut said:


> I'm not sure. It isn't a 105mm as the 105mm is bigger in diameter, but shorter in length. I was told these were Naval practise rounds, if that's any type of clue for you.. I'm a old cannon cocker, Field Arty, from back in the early 70's.


Yes, they look like the 3” and or 76mm both sizes that I used more often, at least very close to that size I suspect.


----------



## mopac

Sagas, your GP7 looks very nice. I have a pair of GP7 or GP9s, I do not remember for sure. Mine are T&P also.
Mine are not Gilbert but Lionel. The powered unit runs well.


----------



## mopac

I will have some pics here tomorrow or Saturday. Got a 293 today. But it got dark outside on me.
Paint and graphics look nice, but it is a turd. Nothing I can't fix but it needs a lot of TLC. I paid
flyernut 85.00 for the one I got from him. It is nice and needs nothng. The one I got today was 42.00.
You get what you pay for. The cheapness got to me. All 4 screw holes for the tender shell are broke
out, wheels have been off it, traction tires are on the same side. Idiots work on these also. Needs a
harness from tender to engine. Plugs have been added with some bad wires from tender. Like I said
It needs some TLC. I think it will make a nice engine. Seller says he knows nothing about trains.
Friday or Saturday will receive 3 cars, one being a white 640 hopper. A few steps missing of coarse.
Been wanting one for awhile. Getting a log car and I can't remember the 3rd car. All for 14.50 plus
shipping. So good price on the white hopper, nice except the missing steps. I need to stay off Ebay for awhile.
Don't need any more cars or junk locos.


----------



## AmFlyer

Just what you need, more projects.


----------



## mopac

I have plenty of projects. Like a layout.

Worst part of winter I believe is behind us. We had a 81 degree day this week.
70 some tomorrow.


----------



## AFGP9

Late this afternoon the nice mailman dropped off a 322AC. Very nice engine. Haven't had time to get pictures. Cosmetically it needs nothing. Every piece of the metal railing is very straight on both the engine and tender. Probably the nicest I've seen. Haven't had time to run yet. Seller said it ran well before being stored. I'll see.

No 81 degrees here mopac. 55 was it. Now 25 tonight. Still got some snow around in ditches and along fence lines and tree lines even though the temps have been in the high 30's-low 40's and even a couple of 50 and 55 days. The snow just won't leave. I also dug out my CP box cars I thought I had mopac. Seeing yours got me to thinking so I did some digging and found them in the bottom of my biggest glass case with some other stuff in a small box. Don't remember doing that or why. Again, pictures when I take ones for the 322AC. Might be until Saturday.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, take a close look at the metal flag holders on the pilot beam The thick ones are 1949, the thin ones are 1950 or '51.
I will abstain from weather comments. Mopac's post reminds me once again how different the St Louis weather is from the Chicago weather.


----------



## mopac

Tom, Chicago is only 300 miles north of me but winters are much worse there. Snow fall also because of the Great Lakes. I did not get my white hopper today so pics monday. What s the rarity rating on that white 640 hopper.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, from memory I think it is a 2. We are in San Diego for a couple of days, when I get back to the house Sunday PM I will look it up to confirm.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, I am back at the house. The white plastic 640 with black lettering is a rarity of 3.


----------



## mopac

Thanks Tom. Is 3 more rare than a 2? Not a good day for pics. Complete cloud cover, no sun. Rain moving in soon. Happy with the 3 cars I got. White hopper, log car, and a search light car. All for 14.50 plus shipping. Log car42597 all there. No weight on coupler. Search light car needs a lens and the retaining clip. It also has no weight on coupler. Its also a 42597. Thats weird. Log car is diecast the search light car is plastic. They both have a brake wheel.


----------



## AmFlyer

Yes, a 3 is much less common than a 2. The value of the white 640 is about 5X the value of an unpainted gray plastic 640. The gray painted 640 value falls in the middle and has a rarity of 2. Plastic base 634 floodlight cars were made in 1946 and 1947, I have one or two. They are valued the same as the diecast base 634's.


----------



## SF Gal

Lame "Photo of the day" thread when not one photo is on the page!








How about a A-B-B-A!!!!


----------



## AmFlyer

Now now, lets play nice. The reason there are no pictures on this page is the weather today in St Louis was nasty and did not permit mopac to photograph his new acquisitions on his special outdoor stone wall. This is the rare white 640 hopper pictured on my layout that is being discussed.


----------



## AmFlyer

And here is a plastic chassis 634 floodlight car, again on my layout, not mopac’s special photography wall.


----------



## mopac

Nice pics Tom. My 640 is nice. Yours is nicer. Yours has steps. LOL.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks Mopac. That hopper is in unusually good condition but I paid a lot more for it, $45 in 1991. Th 634 has sharply defined spring stampings, diecast journal boxes and unweighted thick shank couplers, a 1947. According to the research white plastic base 634's were only made in 1946 so mine must be a very light gray. The gray plastic base cars are 1947. I am interested in what variation you found.


----------



## mopac

I would call mine light gray. No weight on coupler. I have rust on my handrails, hope it will
polish off.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thin or thick shank?


----------



## mopac

Thick shank. I tried to polish part of a handrail. Needs some sandpaper first then polish.


----------



## flyernut

Here's a picture of 2 of my "white" hoppers, and 1 of my many light grey ones.


----------



## flyernut

New to me 322.. I need a trailing truck for it, although it did come with one. The one that came with it is out of square, and extremely loose.


----------



## AmFlyer

The gray one is the less common painted variation. Nice that all three have both steps on the visible side.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> The gray one is the less common painted variation. Nice that all three have both steps on the visible side.


One of the white hoppers has a missing step.


----------



## mopac

Here are the 3 cars I got for 14.50. Good price.

The white hopper











The log car











The search light car with rusty handrails











This one is searchlight car after working on right side of handrail. I am going to have to take car apart to clean all the handrail. I think it will come out ok.


----------



## mopac

I got these cars from a place called Train City in Cape Canaveral, Fla. I guess a train shop.


----------



## mopac

Nice Hudson flyernut. The hoppers are nice also. There is a variation of gray hoppers with white lettering. I do not 
have one of those. Yet.


----------



## mopac

There you go SF Gal, pics.


----------



## AmFlyer

Your floodlight car has the same slotted trucks but it has stamped rather than diecast journal boxes. The spring stampings are less defined so it might be a later production car than mine. Closer to to the end of 1947.
I have several gray/white hoppers, they are the most common. Watch for a black 640 with white lettering, If you see it, buy it. Its rarity is 5+, which means less than 100 were made. Not the Wabash 640, the AMERICAN FLYER one.


----------



## mopac

I missed a deal on Ebay. Forgot about it. The Christmas set with the 0-6-0 dockside loco.
And the musical boxcar. Brand new. Buyer got it for 95.00. The set has 12 K-Line wide
curves. I would have bought it.


----------



## AmFlyer

That was a major miss! At $5/piece just the track is worth $60. I was looking at my set and its sealed set box. I am thinking about opening it next Christmas. It will probably cut the value at least in half if I do.


----------



## mopac

Somehow I missed it. I was watching for it to come to the top of my list. I should have dug in my list sooner.
Thats what I was thinking, at least 60.00 in just track. Big miss. And that is for the curves, there was some straight track also. Maybe 4 pieces. There is another 10.00 in track. I like the K-Line track.


----------



## mopac

I forgot to mention my 640 white hopper has the truck weights.


----------



## AmFlyer

As they should. The 640 AF hoppers were made from 1949 to 1953, all should have black coupler weights.


----------



## AmFlyer

While we are posting 640 picture here is another one. The number 640 is one of only two numbers Gilbert "reused" on a different item. Below is a picture of the other 640, a Wabash hopper. Also pictured is its partner, the later KC version numbered 940 with a coal load. The coal is not factory for a 940.


----------



## mopac

They look much better with the coal load.


----------



## AFGP9

And the reason I haven't posted any picture of my 322 AC and CP silver box cars as promised is I have been down with bad sore throat, coughing my toe nails off and a chest full of junk. To make matters worse I was home medicating with all sorts of stuff. Big stupid mistake. Call it fever induced thinking. All the chest decongestant, sore throat lozenges and cough syrup were not sugar free!! Important thing to know since I am diabetic!! Sugar was way way up making things way worse than they had to be. My fault. Threw all that stuff away. I did find a bottle of sugar free cough syrup, which I knew I had, so been surviving on that, sugar free cough drops, and Tylenol. Feel a lot better with my sugar down now. Pictures to be taken and posted as soon as I am able to hold my phone steady.

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I never thought about the possible presence of sugar in the cold meds. I assumed they were all sugar free. Good thing you figured it out.


----------



## AFGP9

Being a 30 year diabetic I should have known to check the bottle or boxes. I check everything. I must have put the regular cough syrup in front of sugar free bottles when I rearranged my meds and threw out all out of date stuff this past fall. Since the labels look similar I just didn't look close enough. Only the date. I got up very disorientated Sunday morning so thought I should check my sugar. 300! That's after 3 days worth of the stuff. I am hardly ever sick so this deal is unusual plus any body stress causes sugar to rise naturally anyway. As far as the lozenges, and chest decongestant same thing. Bottom line, always read labels. 

Kenny


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> As they should. The 640 AF hoppers were made from 1949 to 1953, all should have black coupler weights.


I think he means the lead weights under the trucks, such as a 631 would have.


----------



## alaft61ri

If I had a spare I would just mail it to you. Nice 322.
Al


----------



## flyernut

alaft61ri said:


> If I had a spare I would just mail it to you. Nice 322.
> Al


Thank you for that kind offer Al..


----------



## AmFlyer

Flyernut, now you have opened another can of worms. Here are three pictures. The first picture is a 631 Gondola with a truck weight and a black coupler weight. The second picture is a 640 and a 940 hopper The 940 has no truck weight, the 640 has a truck weight. The third is a 1948 (brass coupler weight) 632 hopper without a truck weight. I was commenting on the presence of the round, black weight in the link coupler. I think flyernut added in the truck weight that is present on some gondola's and hoppers. I will leave research on the presence or absence of truck weights as an exercise for some other reader/poster. My personal data point from observing hundreds of hoppers is that it seems random and not more than 50% have them. Have fun looking!


----------



## mopac

flyernut and AmFlyer, I did mean the weights on the trucks.
Kenny, get well soon. I am seldom sick. I hate being under the weather.
Yes 300 is way too high. I freak out at 180 or more. Hope you feel better
soon. I check my sugar every morning before I do anything else.
132 this morning.


----------



## mopac

I have a few gondolas with truck weights but most do not have the weights.

Hoppers are easy to add the weights. Trucks are held on with screws. Some day I
hope to have coal loads on all hoppers. Then I can add any weights under the
coal load.


----------



## flyernut

I like worms.....


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, look at my picture of the 940 Wabash hopper above. The truck is riveted on but no truck weight. Also note the weights are completely different on the older 631 T&P gondola compared to the newer 640 Wabash hopper. Looks like a cost reduction to eliminate the "ears" on the weights out at the truck sideframes.


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks to the man who says he likes worms I went into the attic to get more hoppers. I also looked at other hoppers on the layout that are not pictured here. It seems Gilbert stopped using the truck weights in 1952. The 1953 Link coupler hoppers do not have them nor do the few 1952 hoppers I looked at. Out of 10 KC hoppers I checked none have truck weights. Pictured below is, first, a 640 AF hopper with early production weights and screws and a 1953 long truck 640 Wabash without weights and rivets.
The second picture just shows the white letter 640 and a B&O 801. The 801 was supposedly a cheap car but it looks great with an added coal load.


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks to the man who says he likes worms I went into the attic to get more hoppers. I also looked at other hoppers on the layout that are not pictured here. It seems Gilbert stopped using the truck weights in 1952. The 1953 Link coupler hoppers do not have them nor do the few 1952 hoppers I looked at. Out of 10 KC hoppers I checked none have truck weights. Pictured below is, first, a 640 AF hopper with early production weights and screws and a 1953 long truck 640 Wabash without weights and rivets.
> The second picture just shows the white letter 640 and a B&O 801. The 801 was supposedly a cheap car but it looks great with an added coal load.
> 
> View attachment 578859
> View attachment 578860


Maybe, just maybe, Gilbert thought that because of the sintered iron trucks, the truck weights were not necessary on them, only on the lighter sheet metal trucks...isn't this fun,lol??


----------



## JMedwick

Cleaned, tuned and ready to go. I love Royal Blue engines.


----------



## alaft61ri

Beautiful did u paint that if did great job..I have two one I had no choice to paint . The other good shape the tender has the indent in tender. Also have 2 353 circus one was basket case the a set w was a steel came with 2 red flat cars and the yellow passenger car. I also love the royal blue looking at another one on ebay.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks good!


----------



## flyernut

JMedwick said:


> View attachment 579134
> 
> Cleaned, tuned and ready to go. I love Royal Blue engines.


I have 3 of them, along with the correct freight cars.


----------



## JMedwick

flyernut said:


> I have 3 of them, along with the correct freight cars.


This sent me down the internet to see what cars went with it. Looks like I have them packed away.


----------



## JMedwick

alaft61ri said:


> Beautiful did u paint that if did great job..I have two one I had no choice to paint . The other good shape the tender has the indent in tender. Also have 2 353 circus one was basket case the a set w was a steel came with 2 red flat cars and the yellow passenger car. I also love the royal blue looking at another one on ebay.


thanks for the kind comment on the paint job, but it didn’t touch the paint. That is all original. I just cleaned it up.


----------



## alaft61ri

Wow came out great.


----------



## TimmyD

Couldn't help myself... My daughter now has a bunch of wooden trains and matchbox trains that are often out, but she also comes down to my 'office' and lets me know when it is time to break Daddy's trains. Here she is intently operating a 283 on a hastily assembled loop. She has the controls down pat, but I should really get a rerailing section so that she can rail her own cars... Just turned two.


----------



## alaft61ri

That is so cute and precious. Enjoy
Al


----------



## mopac

Very cute.


----------



## AmFlyer

Looks like the smoke unit needs a refill!


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## flyernut

Hit that Royal Blue with a shot of Pledge, or something similar. The paint on those really take on a nice shine!!!!


----------



## mopac

Just posting a previous shown pic I like. Its a 293 I got from flyernut.

Where is the pic? I was trying to pick it up from another post. Did not work.
Thought I had it but I guess I dropped it.


----------



## alaft61ri

Oops I was using my 290 that fyernut did for me it was pulling 660 662 663. Without any effort I still consider me grasshopper and you guys r the masters. Lol


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## AmFlyer

Three of the aluminum passenger cars is a good load if there are any grades.


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## alaft61ri

No grades just flat funky curve that goes in front of the mountain. I made. The grade I do have would be to much.


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## AmFlyer

I ran two trains this AM, a long freight pulled by a PRR ES44Ac and a short freight pulled by #765 NPR Berkshire. The Berkshire had been dropping sound and not working well so I put it away for a month. Got it back out and the last two days it has run perfectly so I am declaring it self repaired!
I had sent five engines to Goldinhands for repair. Four were steam engines with failed fan driven smoke units. One was a UP E8 with a non working headlight. Ed upgraded the lighting to include a working headlight in the lower housing.
Here is the Santa Fe Y3 with its new smoke unit sitting under the coaling tower. Behind it is an American Models Lackawanna Northern.


----------



## flyernut

flyernut said:


> Maybe, just maybe, Gilbert thought that because of the sintered iron trucks, the truck weights were not necessary on them, only on the lighter sheet metal trucks...isn't this fun,lol??


----------



## flyernut

Forget about that other posting, I'm losing my mind,lol.. Here's a K335 Northern I picked up for a buddy of mine..I paid $140 for it, and put in $45... Of course it runs great, e-unit is 100%, and smokes like the Marlboro Man.


----------



## alaft61ri

Beautiful k 335 good price and the Santa fe


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## mopac

Nice K335. Here is the pic I was trying to transfer from another post.
This 293 is not from flyernut. It was an ebay purchase for about 70.00
including the caboose. Runs good but a small wobble. I have not looked
at the wobble yet.


----------



## mopac

Well, I got the pic but could not enlarge it. Shame, its a nice pic.


----------



## alaft61ri

Very nice good deal.
Al


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## alaft61ri

Here is the SOB that drove me nuts for two weeks got it running.


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## AmFlyer

Al, I just noticed you have both the Plasticville version of the switch tower and the Gilbert #590 version. The Gilbert 590 looks great.


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## alaft61ri

Thankyou I like those kind I'd buy more but really no room I have more americanflyer lamps price were good but still not much room. Iam trying to find room so I can build a small layout for my prewar flyer lionel and marx. Really love trains number one will always be flyer.


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## alaft61ri

My apologies to u Amflyer when u mentioned the 590 I thought it was beacon search light. I still look out for the 590 that's I have had in the beginning when my godfather gave the set to me when I was 12 as you can see I have added.lol
Al


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## AmFlyer

Don't worry about me, I just like those tan and green switch towers. The rotating aircraft beacon is nice as well.


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## alaft61ri

Me too like I said I have room for those on the look out for them. No problem here


----------



## AFGP9

I like those tan and green switch towers too. I found a green one at the train show I bought my 322 AC at.........until I picked it up and turned it around. Part of the back side was completely broken out and wasn't there to even try and fix. The seller had 50.00 on it. I offered 10.00 and he laughed. He said a buyer could just put it in a position on their layout so the back wouldn't be seen. What a guy. He told me all this with a straight face. 

Kenny


----------



## alaft61ri

What a jerk.


----------



## AmFlyer

I am going to divert from trains for a moment in order to post some pictures of our road reconstructon. The roads in our housing plan are 34 years old and for a number of well considered reasons the decision was made to remove and replace them rather than attempt another resurfacing. The area in front of our house is in progress now. The process is to cold plane all the asphalt from the road, leaving just the subsurface roadbed. The cold planer is removing 6", leaving behind between 0" and 1" of pavement because the sub roadbed was not even. A front loader just scrapes up the remaining asphalt in a quick pass. Ten haulers are in rotation to receive the flow of asphalt from the planer's conveyor and take it to a recycle plant. The cold planed asphalt is reused to make new pavement.
Five passes are needed to remove the entire width of the street, that should be done by noon tomorrow. Prior to repaving, the roadbed is inspected and cores taken to assure it conforms to current standards. Some problems, inadequately compacted soils and subsidence, were discovered in the prior phase up the hill from us that required repairs.
Unfortunately my new Legacy Pacific was not delivered yesterday, so because of the road closure the earliest I can get it is now Saturday. I will post pictures of the new engine when it arrives.
Here are two pictures of the work in progress.


----------



## AmFlyer

For any of you interested, the third pass is just beginning. Here are some better pictures of the cold planer in action. It moves at about 2’/second, takes less than 3 minutes to completely fill one hauler. The planer has a pair of tank style treads front and rear with the actual planer (spinning cutting wheel) in the center.


----------



## AmFlyer

Another day has passed and my new Legacy Pacific has yet to be delivered. Good news is 24 hours later we have half of a new road. The base layer is completed. The finish layer will be done on Monday.


----------



## Trackman

I must say friend, you live in a beautiful location. And I'm sure the Legacy Pacific will be worth the minor delivery delay.
I also have to say, the photos of the street surface didn't look bad to start with. This comment coming from a guy who lives and drives many Ohio roadways. I cringe anytime I must drive into Michigan however, as their roads are notoriously bad. 
Enjoy the new street, and the Pacific.


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## AmFlyer

These are private streets our HOA owns and maintains. What was underneath the thin sealcoat in the first pictures was ugly in some places due to all the utility cuts that were made over 35 years. It was no longer possible to add any more top coats of asphalt. The HOA has been collecting funds in the monthly dues for this work and we had a low bid price from 18 months ago the contractor was willing to honor. There are 11 phases of work, my pictures are just phase 3 by our house.
The worst streets we drive on are a toss up between the city of San Diego and the city of Lansing Michigan. When we drive from Lansing to East Lansing it is like going from a third world country to a first world location. Detroit is not so good either. 
I am now convinced my engine was routed through the Panama Canal to get to SoCal from Boston. I ordered two other engines from Wisconsin, they have not yet shipped.


----------



## mopac

Will be looking forward to pics of your new choo choos. The area you live in is beautiful. Very nice.
I will be having road work in front of my house.also. I think all the new layers that can be added have been done also.
I do not know when the project is to start. Different people from the county have told me it is on the planner.
They are going to widen my road. At least one more lane. I will not be losing any of my yard. It will be on the other side of the road.


----------



## mopac

I did make a purchase on ebay today. I have been wanting a bubbling water tower. Don't ask why.
I do not know. Anyway that is what I bought. Not an American Flyer 772. It is a reproduction. MTH 23772. Notice the similar model numbers. I have some other MTH items, mainly for my O scale trains. This one looks brand new. Seller said he called it used because the box is torn. Never been on a layout. I will show pics when it arrives.


----------



## AmFlyer

I do not remember which water tower MTH made. Is it the small tank or the large checkerboard tank? Both are 772's.


----------



## mopac

I would consider it a small tank and it is checkerboard. It has a white bulb, seems I have seen reddish tubes. Might try a red bulb.


Here is the listing for it Tom. Has a red lens on top, I do not know if it lights.
I have some red flashing LEDs, maybe see if I can get one of those going on top.
This way I won't have to post a pic of it. I will need a rectifier or something to
change the AC to DC for the LED. That red thing on top might be the end of the
bubble tube and I guess that lights the red thing.

Need to go get the listing. Can't get it to post here.
I will keep trying. Got it.


M.T.H. No. 23772 Reproduction of American Flyer 772 Bubbling Water Tower W/ Box | eBay

Click on the pic of water tower and scroll down a bit to see the other pics.
Top of box is mangled. Not really mangled, it is gone.


----------



## mopac

Not super fond of the checkerboard tank. Might paint it a solid color. Black or the right red.
I like the shed next to tower but it does look plastic. Might have to paint it also. We shall see.


----------



## MichaelE

Checkerboard tanks were often found on Air Force installations in the '50s, '60s, and '70s. I never saw one that was not on an Air Force Base.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for info Michael.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, that is what is known as the large checkerboard tank. Looks like the red glass at the top is the end of the bubbling tube. I would form some aluminum foil around the bulb to direct more of the light into the tube. 
I know of one large water tank that was painted in that red/white checkerboard theme. It was on a DOE production site known as the FEED plant. The local residents mostly thought is was a Ralston Purina facility.


----------



## mopac

It most certainly looks like something from a Ralston Purina facility. I do not think the checkerboard is
painted on. Cruising ebay this morning I saw a strip of checkerboard for water tanks. It might be a sticker.


----------



## AmFlyer

I agree, its either a stamping or a wrap, I have not looked closely at one. I never cared for the checkerboard look so I never purchased that version of a 772. I think it would be interesting to paint over or remove the checkerboard, then put on decals for a local city or a railroad.


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## AmFlyer

Here you are mopac, this would go well with your new checkerboard water tank.


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## alaft61ri

I have a checkered one I belive it's a wrap


----------



## mopac

Al, yours is the MTH version just like mine. Do the bubbles work well?


----------



## mopac

Looking at your pic some more yours is different than mine. The roof on the shed is green,
Mine is red, so maybe yours is not MTH. I did not think the Gilbert one had a shed.


----------



## AmFlyer

The one on Al's layout is an original Gilbert water tank. Gray painted base, metal shack, and the Gilbert , rather than MTH, metal tag on the base.


----------



## mopac

At first I thought it was like mine but after looking some more I knew it was different. My seller has not even mailed mine.
I will burn him on shipping time. When I used to sell on ebay I always shipped day after payment received. Sometimes
same day.


----------



## AmFlyer

That seller is unusually slow. Causes a buyer to avoid doing business with them in the future,


----------



## AmFlyer

Here are some pictures I never wanted to take. The smoke is from a fire within a mile of our house. The winds are blowing at 40kts. The fire started down in the canyon at 4pm and within 30 minutes homes along Coronado Pointe road were on fire. As of 5:20pm many homes throughout that plan are on fire. Our house is the blue dot at the bottom of the map. We are on the other side of the mountain peak. The fire started in the green area to the left of the big Coronado Pointe lettering. All these homes are between $3mm and $10mm.






























At the moment the winds are blowing from NW to SE so the embers are not blowing over our house, hopefully the wind direction will not change, they are predicted to stop around 3am. If you stop hearing from me then either the power went out or an ember blew here.


----------



## alaft61ri

Good luck to you and stay safe.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Thanks, here are two pictures off of the TV. Note the palm trees bending in the wind. There are 7 houses burning visible in the picture, a total of 20 are now burning. At the moment we are not downwind of the fire.


----------



## AmFlyer

To bring this to a surprising conclusion the winds laid down to less than 10kts around 6:45pm, much earlier than forecast. As a result the fire seems to be under control and no longer spreading. Many homes were lost, at least 20 and are still burning. All road access to the area including ours was closed by 6pm.
The surprise was that at 6:30pm our regular UPS driver delivered a large box to our house. He managed to circumvent the police roadblocks. The package contained 2 new Legacy engines and 2 new boxcars. Pictures in the New Additions thread tomorrow. Nobody should doubt UPS!


----------



## mopac

Glad you got your large package. Stay safe. Get us some pics when you can. I got my water tank. The checkerboard looks worse than I thought. Within 2 minutes of opening the box I started ripping the wrap off the tank. It is a plastic wrap with a paper backing. It is coming off in a thousand pieces. It will take a while to get it off. There is a very nice black tank under the wrap. Using alcohol to get glue off. Not going fast but I will get it. Pic to come after I am done.


----------



## alaft61ri

Sorry to about the wrapping. Use goo gone I think it's called it takes the glue off easier


----------



## alaft61ri

alaft61ri said:


> Sorry to about the wrapping. Use goo gone I think it's called it takes the glue off easier


That the right name just ck.


----------



## flyernut

alaft61ri said:


> Sorry to about the wrapping. Use goo gone I think it's called it takes the glue off easier


Anything that is citrus-based, whether it be a air freshener or liquid, is a great glue remover..Heck, I think if you even squirted a orange peel on glue, it would come off,lol.


----------



## DrawsOnCad

AmFlyer said:


> We did not have anything like Brakeman Bill in Pittsburgh.


Yeah, but Fred Rogers talked to his trolley, and it listened.


----------



## AmFlyer

I did not know about the trolley that listened, I never watched Mr Rogers. We had Rege Cordic, a popular WWSW and then KDKA DJ. The station redid a pre-PCC high-floor car as an advertisement for his show. Here it is in 1958. The trolley did not respond to verbal direction.


----------



## DrawsOnCad

AmFlyer said:


> I did not know about the trolley that listened, I never watched Mr Rogers. We had Rege Cordic, a popular WWSW and then KDKA DJ. The station redid a pre-PCC high-floor car as an advertisement for his show. Here it is in 1958. The trolley did not respond to verbal direction.
> 
> View attachment 582748


Here you go...
11 minutes in.
Way before Lionel Voice Command.


----------



## AmFlyer

Ok, thanks. I certainly never saw that show.


----------



## DrawsOnCad

AmFlyer said:


> Ok, thanks. I certainly never saw that show.


Very popular, especially in Pittsburgh.
It was a PBS show, channel 13.
There was an attraction ride at Idlewild park. Tom Hanks played him in a recent movie about his life.


----------



## AmFlyer

I recall going to Idlewild Park once. We went to West View Park and Kennywood Park. When I was in fourth grade I won some contest and appeared on Ch13.


----------



## mopac

Here is a pic of my new bubbling water tank with the checkerboard wrap removed.
I have not hooked up any power to it so maybe I will today to see how it bubbles.
I will leave the shed next to tower as is so item has some color to it.
Happy with the tower.


----------



## mopac

Took my meter downstairs and set throttle to 14 volts per tower instructions and hooked
up the tower. First 5 minutes , nothing. Went back up stairs and let it run. Came down in another 5 minutes and this thing was bubbling its butt off. So it takes 5 to 10 minutes to get going. I can not think of anything the bubbles could be in real life but kinda cool.

I paid 39.95 plus shipping, another 11.00 something. It was the start price. There was 3 other MTH towers all starting at 49.95. I had no idea what was a decent price. Then I saw a seller wanting 60.00 for just a Gilbert bubbling tube, no tower just the tube so I jumped on this one. I have some red 14 volt bulbs somewhere that I replaced with 18 volt, cause they got so dang hot, from controllers for turnouts. I want to try a red bulb in the tower.


----------



## AmFlyer

Better than with the red/white checkerboard. Could use a railroad or city name decal on the tank.


----------



## alaft61ri

I like the checkered board but what u said is a good I dear.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer

Its a pretty poor picture but here is my water tank with a PRR decal on it.


----------



## AFGP9

First Tom glad to see wind laid down. That looks way too close to me. That is sad to see the houses and the vegetation all burn up. I suppose now the next thing will be mud slide danger. That was some brave, determined UPS driver for sure. 
Mopac I have two of checker board towers. Gilbert made two different ones but similar. I kinda like that black look. Some kind of decal would work. Similar to what Tom has? Msaybe a Mopac? Like you I hooked up both of mine when I first got them some time ago and waited for the bubbles, And waited. And waited . I was about to give up when one of them started showing signs of life. By the time it was bubbling fully the other one finally took off. I haven't had either one on in a while. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

Along with the 312AC that I received yesterday, the seller included a little keepsake from the A.C. Gilbert Service Dept.
I thought it was kinda neat. It was in a plastic bag to keep it nice.
Not much help were they? Of coarse it can be repaired. Take to a local train shop.
LOL, or send it to flyernut.


----------



## AmFlyer

Neat! Never saw one of those.


----------



## flyernut

mopac said:


> Along with the 312AC that I received yesterday, the seller included a little keepsake from the A.C. Gilbert Service Dept.
> I thought it was kinda neat. It was in a plastic bag to keep it nice.
> Not much help were they? Of coarse it can be repaired. Take to a local train shop.
> LOL, or send it to flyernut.
> 
> View attachment 583681
> 
> 
> View attachment 583682


Bull, send it to me,lol!!!


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac those tags are interesting. That draw bar is an easy fix as I'm sure you know. The wiring issues are no big deal either. Makes me wonder if that engine arrived at the Gilbert repair facility on a Friday and the boys were wanting out of the place to get the weekend started and just decided to send it back rather than fix it for the customer. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Further to that interesting tag Mopac now has in his collection. I have a copy of a guide to Gilbert paper. It is 130 pages and was assembled from observation, not from any Gilbert company list. There are about 1,000 items of paper listed. Almost all the Gilbert numbers begin with a D or an M. The item above is called a string tag and other string tags have an M number. The one pictured above is not included in the master list so it was not observed when the list was researched.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom, interesting that you have that collection of Gilbert paper. Sounds interesting. 

Kenny


----------



## flyernut

I have a inspection sheet that was tucked into a 631 gondola box, along with a pristine 631 gondola. It states it was inspected by so and so, and gives the inspectors # and name.


----------



## AmFlyer

Flyernut, I assume you mean these M2236 Inspector's Voucher's. Gilbert seems to have stopped using these at the time KC's were widely introduced (1953.)


----------



## flyernut

AmFlyer said:


> Flyernut, I assume you mean these M2236 Inspector's Voucher's. Gilbert seems to have stopped using these at the time KC's were widely introduced (1953.)
> 
> View attachment 584365


That's them!!!!!


----------



## mopac

Fnnally took somepics of stuff found in my mailbox.
First up is 3 Gulf tanker cars and a 938 caboose. All 4 cars were 9.99 plus decent shipping.










Next is 3 passenger cars. They are plastic not aluminum. They were 38 something plus shipping.
Seller said they were metal. When I told him they were plastic he refunded ALL my money and said
to keep them.


















next is a log cabin I found in a box I have not been in for many years. I figure the log cabin is
at least 52 years old. It is an incense burner, takes a cone style and smokes out the chimney.











Last but not least is a couple pics of my nice 312AC. First pic she is showing off her new headlight lens.


----------



## mopac

Not sure why 2 pics of the passenger cars showed up but they did. They are in no way the conditon of Tom's 500 series cars but they are decent. For free they are wonderfull.

Where is my smoke fluid tanker? took one of it.


----------



## mopac

Found it. flyernut, no problem with Zinc Rot of the trucks. LOL, they are plastic. Like this era of Lionel cars that box says metal trucks but they are not.


----------



## AmFlyer

Quite a few additions. As I have commented in prior threads, only some 66X series passenger cars were aluminum, some 660, 661 and 662 cars are chrome plated plastic. If they are 50X, they are plastic. All 900 and 5 digit passenger cars are plastic. Never was there a 960, 961 or 962 aluminum passenger car. You made out on that deal.


----------



## mopac

I guess it was 2 idiots meeting, LOL. He had them in his hands and said they were metal.
I offered to buy them as plastic and he said to keep them. And he refunded my money.


----------



## alaft61ri

These are the one i bought 2 years ago.


----------



## AFGP9

Mopac you made out on that passenger car deal. Even had a fair seller. Amazing now days. Sure do like that fluid car. 

Kenny


----------



## AFGP9

Al, those are nice passenger cars. I had multiples of those. 15 all together. Sold all to a guy I know. I probably should have kept one set just for collection purposes. They really didn't fit my layout theme. Got heavyweights and New Havens now. red and green. Much better fit. 

Kenny


----------



## mopac

I need to work on my new passenger cars. They do not roll as well as I would like. Need to remove the wheels. Clean axle ends and journals, then oil the axle ends, and they should roll fine. Pulmor wheels would help but very few of my locomotives have pulmor. I would prefer they all had pulmor. My 282 has the worst pulling power. Plastic shell so not much weight. Very strong motor. Easy to spin the drivers with 4 or more cars. I got a lot of flat cars awhile back and they did not roll well. Cleaned the axles and oiled and now they will roll away on ther own with the slightest incline.


----------



## AmFlyer

That is one reason why Gilbert only sold the aluminum passenger cars in three car sets. The link coupler engines with no traction tires could not reliably pull four aluminum cars. The other but less important reason was spontaneous uncoupling of the aluminum cars. Gilbert added springs to the couplers to help keep them coupled but the springs were not 100% successful.


----------



## AmFlyer

Took a few pictures today of a PRR Light Mikado on the TT. This is one of my favorite engines because it is a PRR, it runs and smoke well, and it is painted in the correct PRR very, very dark green with accurate Dulux Gold lettering And oxide red cab roof and tender deck.


----------



## AmFlyer

Two more of the same engine. One, waiting to depart the yard at the head of a freight. The other, underway with the freight, passing a stopped PRR passenger train headed by an E8.
These TMCC Mikados were made in 2005 by Lionel and even today are as well detailed as any of the subsequent American Flyer Legacy releases.


----------



## mopac

Those are great looking engines. Love the red cab roof and tender tops. I have a couple Mikados
in HO wth same paint scheme.

I thought your PRR E8 was green. I guess you have both.


----------



## AmFlyer

Mopac, you have a lot of nice HO engines, it is too bad they are all stored. A few wall pictures of HO engines we wish we could get in S gauge would be nice.
I only have the Tuscan PRR E8. The only green PRR passenger diesels I have are the Lionel Legacy PA/PA set. I have an assortment of PRR green freight diesels from AM. Here are the green PA’s pulling seven Lionel PRR passenger cars..


----------



## AmFlyer

Here is a front end picture for the Friday starting the July 4th weekend. These engines just happened to be sitting as shown, three on the turntable approach tracks, two back in the freight yard. I turned on the track power for the picture and used the supplemental LED light to bring out more details.
Foreground, left to right; a 2005 TMCC PRR Mikado; a 2011 Legacy NP Challenger; a 2021 Legacy AT&SF Pacific, the smoke at idle is visible. In the background, on the left a 2006 TMCC Erie Pacific; on the right a 2012 Legacy AT&SF Y3. Not present anywhere on the layout are the 2020 Legacy Berkshires. Both are still at Goldinhands awaiting a new Legacy board for the 765 NKP engine.
Reflecting on S gauge, Lionel cataloged the 75th Anniversary of S gauge Boxcar, pictured below, in the 2021 Catalog but it was not delivered until 2022, the 76th anniversary. Of those 76 years since the 1946 introduction of Gilbert S gauge, Gilbert only made S gauge for 21 years until their 1967 bankruptcy. Lionel puchased the copyrights, patents and most tooling at the bankruptcy liquidation sale. None were made for 12 years. In 1979 Lionel (Fundimensions) made the first three S gauge cars. Each year production increased. Lionel has been making American Flyer S gauge for 43 years and counting.
I remember my friends with trains pronouncing that we American Flyer guys would soon have S gauge trains that ran on 3 rail track! Nothing of the sort happened. All AF items made by Lionel through today are 100% backwards compatible so any item will run perfectly on an all Gilbert layout using just a transformer. Any Gilbert item will run on a modern Lionel AF layout as well. I run old Gilbert engines on my modern scale layout using a Legacy Cab2 handheld (or an iPhone with the Lionel App.) We did not have wireless control of our Gilbert trains back then, now we do. Pretty neat.


----------



## AFGP9

Great picture of those 3 engines and the 2 in the back ground. Those green PA's pulling your PRR passenger cars is a good layout view. I like the color combination. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Time to bring this thread back to the top! Here are two pictures on an old all Gilbert layout of mine. Two Hudsons, a 1949 on the left and a 1950 (one of my two original sets) on the right. The second picture shows the Glendale station from a better angle.


----------



## Mikeh49

Classic AF, Tom. I really like the Hudson passenger set. Those are green cars, right?


----------



## AmFlyer

Correct. They are the 652, 653 and 654 unpainted green heavyweights. Those cars are molded in Bakelite and are 1951 production.


----------



## AmFlyer

Trains were running on the layout today. Here are some pictures of a PRR Y3 and a Santa Fe Y3 waiting on the freight yard leads. The PRR paint color is actually PRR very dark green-almost black. Lionel did a great job getting the PRR colors correct back in 2012 when these were made. With the glare from the sunlight the color does not show up well. These engines look good on the large radius curves, the curves are 33.5" and 37" radius. For O gaugers looking in, that rounds to O-90 and O-100.
I am looking forward to getting the new run of S gauge Y3's with the updated Legacy electronics and features, hopefully by December.


----------



## AFGP9

Since I am a Hudson lover, the picture of the 2 nice Hudsons look great, especially the one with the heavyweights. The detail on those 2 Y3's is fantasic. I've always liked the silver/gray color on the boiler front of the Santa Fe's. Of course the rust red roof of the PRR Mikado is always nice as well. I've been tempted to do something similiar to one of my duplicate 312's using the "my railroad, my trains" philosphy. Or the silver/gray color. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

I am also a Hudson lover and continue to hope that one day Lionel will build us a new, detailed Legacy Hudson. I have have two of the TMCC PRR Mikado's from 2006. They are really nice engines, especially after a fan driven smoke unit, a half speed worm gear and cruise control are added. I posed these two along with an AM Lackawanna Northern that also has a red oxide roof. The AM Northern has a subtly different red but both look equally good on the layout. This time I used supplementary lighting so the PRR green is visible compared to the black on the Lackawanna.
I think adding the red oxide to a 312/313 would look great.


----------



## AFGP9

Tom outstanding picture comparison. I didn't realize that the red oxide roof engines also could have gray/silver over the front of the boiler. More food for thought. I kind of like the darker red oxide. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer

Kenny, it gets better. As we can see from this picture both the smoke box and the lower firebox area are painted in graphite.


----------



## mopac

Just fantastic Locomotives Tom. Very nice. Your photos of trains on your layout are superb.
I always enjoy them. I have a request. How about some videos of those great locos running
on your layout. Have you ever thought of doing that? I went to YouTube tonight and watched some of my videos I put on there. I think you have seen most of them.


----------



## SF Gal

I agree! Would love to see these in action. You are opening my eyes to S scale ever since I posted my thread about my Grandma's 1949 train set. I didn't realize you could buy newer technology locomotives and rolling stock in this gauge, in this day and age. You and the others here in the S scale section are showing me some cool stuff, for sure. Thanks for all you do and for sharing your photos.


----------



## mopac

This is for SF Gal.A video of a Lionel FlyerChief S scale Berkshire locomotive. With crew chatter, fan driven
smoke unit and sound. Train is controlled with my phone. So wireless control. Not the greatest video but what I had.
Gets the idea over. Enjoy.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="



" title="MVI 0846" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MVI 0846 - YouTube


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## mopac

I got that engine from Charles Ro.com for 279.00 NIB and 10.00 shipping. A lot of locomotive for that price.
A pretty nice whistle and bell.


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## mopac

Al, did you get one for your Birthday in June?


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## AmFlyer

Thanks for the comments everyone. I have experimented with shooting video with an iPhone, they did not come out well for a host of reasons related to the layout geometry in the room and the lighting. 
Mopac, you should think about not being on your hands and knees on a concrete floor anymore. Unfortunately wood is no longer cheap.


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## flyernut

mopac said:


> I got that engine from Charles Ro.com for 279.00 NIB and 10.00 shipping. A lot of locomotive for that price.
> A pretty nice whistle and bell.


I need one of those!!


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## mopac

Tom, I already have all the 1 X 6s and all the 2 X 4s for legs I need for a layout. I want to get it going. I have told
my son I need the help with it. All I will need to buy is plywood for the top. I think I even have the paint. I am sure
I had better hurry, will be 72 this month.
Tom, nothing is cheap any longer. This inflation has got us. And I doubt anything will go down.


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## AmFlyer

The longer you wait the less time there is to enjoy the layout. That is why I had mine built in 2016 before I retired, I am glad I did not wait.
No point in posting about inflation, it is nothing but depressing so I stay on positive topics when I post here.


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## SF Gal

mopac said:


> This is for SF Gal.A video of a Lionel FlyerChief S scale Berkshire locomotive.....


What year was this made? 2021?


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## AmFlyer

They were last in the 2020 catalog except for the Polar Express version, which was still in the 2021. Charles Ro has them in stock for $270.


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## AFGP9

mopac said:


> Tom, I already have all the 1 X 6s and all the 2 X 4s for legs I need for a layout. I want to get it going. I have told
> my son I need the help with it. All I will need to buy is plywood for the top. I think I even have the paint. I am sure
> I had better hurry, will be 72 this month.
> Tom, nothing is cheap any longer. This inflation has got us. And I doubt anything will go down.


I just saw your story about the lumber you have. You should not wait to buy plywood too much longer. Seems like there is a weekly price increase. 2 alternatives are plywood good on one side or OSB. All of it 1/2" thickness. Because I was going to use several legs for support and used my 6' level, 1/2" was more than adequat. And it was cheaper. I already had several 1x4's, 2x4's, and 2x6's. That was 14 years ago. No problems. I did put 2" construction foam on top to make scenicing easier. The AF track is fastened to it with ballast and thinned Elmers glue. No nails anywhere. Once down that ballast and glue dries rock hard.

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

This thread has been silent for almost two months, time to wake it up. It has been sunny and warm here for the past week and at this time of year some direct sunlight hits my layout. That only happens for the 6 weeks prior to 12/21 and for the 6 weeks after 12/21. I took some pictures late this afternon taking advantage of the direct sun. The pictures point out that some of the vehicles need a trip through the carwash!


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## mopac

As usual Tom, great pics and thanks for waking the thread up. I need to contribute more to it.


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## mopac

Last week I found these 2 cars in my mailbox. They are both very nice. One needs a little work
but was aware of it before I bought them.

First is a 984 New Haven box car. No rust at all on the frame. Might need a bath but that is it.
I have another one but at 9.00 plus 6 shipping I had to go.











2nd car is a 928 log car. I have 5 or 6 log cars but this is my first diecast 928. This one needs a side frame reinstalled. And it has a broken coupler. 6.00 plus around 6 shipping. Car looks new.










All parts were in the package seller sent.

I also ordered 12 new brake wheels. I like having brake wheels installed.


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## AmFlyer

Good additions.


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## AFGP9

Nice additions mopac. I think I have all the log cars. I say that because I'm sure there is a version of one I don't have. 

Kenny


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## AFGP9

Tom that lighting and the late afternoon shadows look great. Very natural. Oh wait it is! 

Kenny


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## flyernut

AFGP9 said:


> Nice additions mopac. I think I have all the log cars. I say that because I'm sure there is a version of one I don't have.
> 
> Kenny


I believe, and I'm probably wrong, there's 3 versions; sheet metal, black, and gray.


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## AmFlyer

Variations can be in the eye of the collector. To have all the log car car variations of just color, painted or unpainted, and type of chassis requires six link coupler cars and six knuckle coupler cars. Adding in the usual coupler variations for link cars adds a couple more. Fortunately there were no five digit log cars made, only a lumber car.
There were four types of chassis used for log cars, sheet metal, diecast, plastic and pressed wood. Commonly found chassis colors include black, gray, silver, white and metallic blue.


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## mopac

Thanks for the info Tom. I thought there was numerous varieties. Like I said I have 5 or 6 log
cars and most are different.


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## AmFlyer

For Thanksgiving, here are a couple of pictures of a 5'x12' loop of track with a siding, assembled on my office floor. The track is SHS sectional, all curves are 30"R. The PRR TMCC Mikado from 2006 is pulling four Lionel AF PRR passenger cars. Despite their higher rolling resistance these cars look great and the lights never flicker. The small Mikado will pull seven of these cars up a 2.7% grade, no problems.
On the siding is a new NKP Legacy Berkshire pulling six 600 series Gilbert link coupler cars. The green 622 is one of my transition cars with a KC on one end. This is one of the features I like about American Flyer S gauge; Gilbert cars from the late 40's/early 50's look right at home behind a 2021 Legacy engine.
This loop runs conventional with an AH101 transformer. The bell and whistle buttons on the remote allow accessing many of the Legacy features. I like the scent of Gilbert smoke while at my desk in the office.


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## mopac

I still think you need a video camera. I can't hear the wonderful sounds, see the smoke, see the drive rods moving in those pics. Great pics though and thanks for posting them.


AmFlyer said:


> For Thanksgiving, here are a couple of pictures of a 5'x12' loop of track with a siding, assembled on my office floor. The track is SHS sectional, all curves are 30"R. The PRR TMCC Mikado from 2006 is pulling four Lionel AF PRR passenger cars. Despite their higher rolling resistance these cars look great and the lights never flicker. The small Mikado will pull seven of these cars up a 2.7% grade, no problems.
> On the siding is a new NKP Legacy Berkshire pulling six 600 series Gilbert link coupler cars. The green 622 is one of my transition cars with a KC on one end. This is one of the features I like about American Flyer S gauge; Gilbert cars from the late 40's/early 50's look right at home behind a 2021 Legacy engine.
> This loop runs conventional with an AH101 transformer. The bell and whistle buttons on the remote allow accessing many of the Legacy features. I like the scent of Gilbert smoke while at my desk in the office.
> 
> View attachment 593463
> View attachment 593464
> View attachment 593465


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## AmFlyer

I have the both an iPhone and a Nikon that take videos. The ones I have tried making are ok but nothing more. It quickly became obvious I would need video editing software to create anything worth posting. Watching some professional YouTubers create with this software convinced me not to start down this path. The bigger issue is I do not have a video hosting site/account and have no plans to get one. 
So, unless my son comes to the house and shoots some videos none will be made and posted.


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## mopac

I understand what you are saying. I use YouTube for my crappy videos. I use my cannon camera for those few videos you have seen. Actually with more light it is not bad. Light is better for any camera.


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## AmFlyer

Took some layout pictures in the late afternoon sun today. I like the appearance of the Erie Light Pacific with that lighting. Captured some of the train passengers waiting to board as well.


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## mopac

I know,I know. I said I was about done buying rolling stock. Key word "about".
I bought 4 new in box cars and they are all here. All boxes are very nice. I 
bought 2 covered hoppers and 2 box cars. 1st car is an Erie covered hopper.
6-48602.











2nd is a ATSF covered hopper. 4-9208.


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## mopac

3rd Is an SP "Over Night" Box Car. Part of the Historic American RailRoad group. 6-48300.











4th is my first American Models car. A NASG from 2012. NC& St.L. Box Car. 18850


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## AmFlyer

I was liking the two covered hoppers, then I was stunned by the AM car. Not one I had seen.


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## mopac

The AM car does roll better than the Lionels. Sometimes I wonder why Lionel even
bothered with S scale.

When I bought the AM car I thought the railroad was North Carolina &StL. Went to
Wikipedia and it is Nashville Chattanooga and ST L. They had the worst passenger train
wreck in the US. Over 100 dead.


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## AmFlyer

The couplers also work better, less force and they open wider.


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## AFGP9

Nice hoppers Mopac. That Dixieland box car is fantasic! Didn't know it was an AM car. I'll have to get the cars I got at a small show the first of December out and post them. I usually stick to Flyer or Flyer/Lionel when it comes to cars but these are 5 MTH cars of which 3 are "wood" sided reefer cars. They are all NIB cars. With a little haggling I paid 12.00 a piece for them. I don't have any idea what these cars usually sell for. I do have a few NIB AM cars that are from shows now that I think of it. This was billed as an HO show but a friend asked me to go with him so I did just to see trains even though it was a 100 mile trip. Glad I went now. Around here nothing is close except Peoria, Ill., 50 miles. Otherwise it's always a hundred miles or more trip to any show.


Kenny


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## AFGP9

Tom I like your sunshine late afternoon photos. Love naturual lighting. Since my layout is in a basement and the windows are small and not that close to the layout. I'm stuck using what Edison invented. I've tried various bulbs in my overhead light cans for pictures but don't get the correct affect. I'll just stick with regular bulbs.

Kenny


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## mopac

Kenny have you tried LED shop lights. The 4 foot kind?


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## AFGP9

Mopac I have not tried those. I have only flourasant lights. No LED's. The bulbs in my can lights are LED. They can be aimed at different angles which I have tried. I've got a photo booth but I like to take pictures with some of the layout as background. Some times the pictures come out fine. Other times I have to use my computer photo shop to doctor the picture. Your wall natural lighting pictures always look good in natural lighting as well. It really isn't a big deal. I'm just a little particular about how my pictures turn out. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, you really stole those MTH cars for $12 ea!
Lighting for pictures is very tricky. Natural light always works. I try to take my pictures in natural light. When using LED's what looks good to the eye is sometimes way off (color balance) with a digital camera. My Nikon is far better with LED lighting than my iPhone or iPad. I have a pair of halogen photo floods if I want to get serious.
We all have our unique perspectives on travel and distance. We live 70 miles north of downtown San Diego. We drive that sometimes just for dinner. I would go farther for the right train show.


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## mopac

I agree, the outdoor lighting probably looks the best. I bought one LED shop light but it is still in its box. It is 5,000 lumens. Should be alot of light. I do know that natural light and florescent bulbs will fade things.I don't think LEDs will. Where my layout will be in the basement is dark, I will need to add some lights. I am thinking 3 of those Led shop lights. A dimmer would be nice but I don't know if that is possible with those lights. I have a couple MTH cars, no they are K-Line. One is a Mo Pac, imagine that. I may not have any MTH. I have alot of cars. More than I will ever use. Watching a couple of American Models locomotives on ebay, but short on money at present. Gave too much to the casino. Costs nothing to watch ebay. Thishas been a tough year for money. Inflation has been a killer. Gas is down to 2.69 for regular. Better than it was.


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## AFGP9

Tom I've got a Nikon but haven't used it so long I've forgotten how to use it! I suppose it would come back to me. I've just become to use to using my Android phone. I can get good picture but as I said I sometmes have to use Photo Shop to brighten the pictures. You are so right about lighting being tricky. My home made photo booth has great ajustable lighting. My can lights over the layout are on a track so they are adjutable but still not quite what I want sometimes Just no train background like I do when taking pictures on the layout. As to travel, I'm not against travelimg for anything. An example is S Fest in West Allis, Wisconsin or the just held train show down in Belville,Ill. near mopac. No I didn't go but have. Both are over 200+ miles each way. My problem is I havn't travelled in so long do to gas prices I've gotten lazy. Now that gas is around 3.20-3.38 I can consider going to places like Du Page and others. It sounds like mopac has some pretty cheap gas. I heard gas was down in Southern Ill. and the St. Louis area where he is. 

Kenny


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