# How to get your steamer to pull more



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Ok so I have a rivarossi berkshire 2-8-4. I replaced the motor with a bachmann motor , I added about 1oz of weight over all to the loco. Then I replaced the traction tires. I have 8 rivarossi passenger cars with interiors & lights. All trucks have been cleaned & oiled. My track is ez track with curves no greater then 22". I have no grades to it. 
My loco when pulling the cars will start ok, but then when going into the curves it spins like crazy. Is it to much weight for it? Am I missing a trick for the cars? 
Oh it is HO scale. 
Thanks for any help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

I have a similar situation. My Rivarossi 4-6-2 will pull 5 Rivarossi cars, but starts slipping when I add the 6th. The electrical pickups add a significant amount of rolling resistance to the passenger cars.

There are 3 solutions.

(1) More weight in the loco. Rivarossi locos are pretty light. My 4-6-2 weighs 10 oz. (tender not included). 1 oz is not much of an improvement. You probably need to add around 6 oz. if possible. My best puller is a Mantua 2-8-2 that weighs 22 oz. (just the loco). It pulls my 6 passenger cars easily -- but it has the wrong road name.

(2) Reduce the rolling resistance in the passenger cars. Remove the pick-ups, then install battery powered LEDs in the cars, with a tiny switch hidden on the bottom or under the overhang on the end. I have not done this, but it is on my to-do list -- after I finish the layout (probably years away).

(3) Double head two locos to pull the train. That is what I am doing right now. It is not prototypical, but effective.

P.S. The reason that the loco spins wheels on the curves is because curves always add rolling resistance, compared to straight track.


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

MtRR75 said:


> I have a similar situation. My Rivarossi 4-6-2 will pull 5 Rivarossi cars, but starts slipping when I add the 6th. The electrical pickups add a significant amount of rolling resistance to the passenger cars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the advice!! I will look into adding a bit more weight. I am just worried I will smoke the motor if I add to much. 
I have looked at removing the pick ups and adding a actual wire pick up off the loco. Been working on a prototype of some sort for that. 
I was not sure if there might be a better truck to use on them , or something. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

IronManStark said:


> I have looked at removing the pick ups and adding a actual wire pick up off the loco. Been working on a prototype of some sort for that.


The problem with that approach is that your train will be permanently hooked together -- and very difficult to remove from the track and store -- unless you install mini plugs at each car junction.



IronManStark said:


> I was not sure if there might be a better truck to use on them , or something.


The trucks are not the problem. The pickups are causing the rolling resistance. Neither is the weight of the cars -- since you have no grades. If you do decide to remove the trucks, you will be opening a can of worms, trying to reattach them and reestablish the complete electrical circuit -- depending on which version of truck attachment you have. I've been there..... See this thread for my journey -- or just skip to post #28 for the final result.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=101753


----------



## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

are the wheels the original ?if so replacing the wheels will help I replace all the trucks on mine as the original trucks don't roll well. and as op said a bit more weight will help, other than that you can balance the weight in loco and replace the tender trucks depending on loco age.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

J.C. said:


> are the wheels the original ?if so replacing the wheels will help I replace all the trucks on mine as the original trucks don't roll well. and as op said a bit more weight will help, other than that you can balance the weight in loco and replace the tender trucks depending on loco age.


Although you have to be careful to replace wheels with ones that are not insulated, so they can pick up power for the lights.


----------



## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

Rubber band a roll of pennies atop the loco and see if it stops slipping. It should be able to handle the weight. But this way you'll know before you start ripping things apart.


----------



## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

If the only problem is wheels slippage, try Bullfrog Snot.
If you have never heard of this before, no, I'm not cracking a joke.
It is a good product.
Apply it to the wheels, (not all of course) and it dries to a tacky plastic finish.
It's kinda like those glue globs that hold the credit cards to the cardboard mailer.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...0.Xbullfrog+.TRS0&_nkw=bullfrog+snot&_sacat=0


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

MtRR75 said:


> The problem with that approach is that your train will be permanently hooked together -- and very difficult to remove from the track and store -- unless you install mini plugs at each car junction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks I will look into the link!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

J.C. said:


> are the wheels the original ?if so replacing the wheels will help I replace all the trucks on mine as the original trucks don't roll well. and as op said a bit more weight will help, other than that you can balance the weight in loco and replace the tender trucks depending on loco age.




The wheels on the cars are new/old stock for rivarossi cars with lights. The tender trucks have been cleaned , and oiled well. I will look into the weight a bit later


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

RonthePirate said:


> If the only problem is wheels slippage, try Bullfrog Snot.
> 
> If you have never heard of this before, no, I'm not cracking a joke.
> 
> ...




I have tried bullfrog snot on it. I found replacing the traction tires on it worked a bit better on this loco. I used the snot on my 2-8-8-2 mallet & had great results with that! Pulled my freight cars with old plastic wheels right up a 4 degree grade! Hade about 20 on it or so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Nikola said:


> Rubber band a roll of pennies atop the loco and see if it stops slipping. It should be able to handle the weight. But this way you'll know before you start ripping things apart.




I will give that a try!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

On the topic of wiring your cars back to the loco, I built a circuit to supply 3 volts derived from track power pulled from a passenger car and connected to an adjacent gondola to power leds. I used these connectors: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272195249542?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Not speaking to if its a good idea for you or not, just showing you the connectors I used.


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Tom_C said:


> On the topic of wiring your cars back to the loco, I built a circuit to supply 3 volts derived from track power pulled from a passenger car and connected to an adjacent gondola to power leds. I used these connectors: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272195249542?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> Not speaking to if its a good idea for you or not, just showing you the connectors I used.




Thanks for the info!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

J.C. said:


> Are the wheels the original? If so replacing the wheels will help I replace all the trucks on mine as the original trucks don't roll well.


I found the the original wheels and trucks worked fine. I ran a test where I temporarily taped the pick-ups to the bottom of the car -- so that they did not touch the wheels. The cars rolled much farther when nudged on level track. And my loco had no problem pulling all of the cars. The problem is the increased resistance from the pick-ups.

If you do decide to replace the wheels, keep in mind that the original wheels were 33" (or maybe 32" based on my measurements) -- NOT the 36" wheels that were common on prototype passenger cars. If you replace your wheels with 36" wheels, check to make sure that the wheels will clear the truck. Also, the coupler height between the tender and the first car will have to be adjusted.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Do what real railroads do, add motive power. Double or triple head locomotives.


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

]so I added about 4oz of weight to the loco. Went through the gears, and swapped them out with a set of mallet gears. Not sure if there is a big difference in them. I read somewhere that it lowered the ratio a bit. 
With that said it did help a bit I can pull the six of theses cars. I have 2 more I would like to add , but I want to look at the running gear on them before I try. 
The last time I tried to run these cars when it got to this point in the video the loco would almost stand still & spinhttps://vimeo.com/200114162


----------



## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

MtRR75 said:


> I found the the original wheels and trucks worked fine. I ran a test where I temporarily taped the pick-ups to the bottom of the car -- so that they did not touch the wheels. The cars rolled much farther when nudged on level track. And my loco had no problem pulling all of the cars. The problem is the increased resistance from the pick-ups.
> 
> .


 that all depends on how old the cars are I don't own of the riv/hor units so I base my reply on older ones and the trucks are junk IMHO


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Another way to add pulling power*



IronManStark said:


> Ok so I have a rivarossi berkshire 2-8-4. I replaced the motor with a bachmann motor , I added about 1oz of weight over all to the loco. Then I replaced the traction tires. I have 8 rivarossi passenger cars with interiors & lights. All trucks have been cleaned & oiled. My track is ez track with curves no greater then 22". I have no grades to it.
> My loco when pulling the cars will start ok, but then when going into the curves it spins like crazy. Is it to much weight for it? Am I missing a trick for the cars?
> Oh it is HO scale.
> Thanks for any help.
> ...


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Before I had O-Gauge I had similar problems with several Riverossi locos on my old layout. Eventually I discovered that the problem was not with the locos but the track. I had laid poarts of the curves not exactly level side to side. The locos would sit on the track so that some of their drivers did not really make contact well with one rail. I found that adjusting the track slightly so it was dead level side to side, or the outer rail on a curve was slightly higher (a 1/4 mm, no more) would work best.


----------



## Mister Bill (Jan 30, 2014)

For my 2 cents, I have two Rivarossi 4-6-2’s, and each easily pulls 8-10 factory cars as they came out of the box. I did replace the traction tires with new ones.
Not knowing what I was doing, I installed Fox Valley LED lighting strips in each car that ran on watch batteries and turned on and off with a wand.
They worked great for a session or two and then the batteries started failing. It was such an ordeal to take off the roof and check for good and dead batteries that all of that took all of the joy out of having lighted cars. Those batteries are expensive and can be hard to find in large quantities.
I removed the Fox Valley lighting strips and just run unlighted cars.
The lights did not make that much of a difference and were difficult to see in the day time.
I don’t need any more hassles.

Bill


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Bill,

Did your "out of the box" passenger cars have the metal wheels with the pick-ups, or did they have plastic wheels? As long as there are no pick-ups on the passenger car wheels, I would expect that the Rivarossi 4-6-2 would pull 8-10 cars. It is the pick-ups that adds the rolling resistance.


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

traction fan said:


> IronManStark said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so I have a rivarossi berkshire 2-8-4. I replaced the motor with a bachmann motor , I added about 1oz of weight over all to the loco. Then I replaced the traction tires. I have 8 rivarossi passenger cars with interiors & lights. All trucks have been cleaned & oiled. My track is ez track with curves no greater then 22". I have no grades to it.
> ...


----------



## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

IronManStark said:


> The (oiled wheels) really meant that when I got the cars they where in a not so new condition. So I removed the trucks & wheels to clean, polish, and I did add a little 3:1 oil on the point of the wheels with a cloth.


3:1 oil is not the best for model trains. Some lubricants will damage plastic parts over time. 3:1 oil is not labelled as plastic-safe. It is also a little too thick for wheels.

Some modelers recommend not using any oil on trucks and wheels. The reasoning is that oil will attract trap dust particles and eventually become goopy and slow wheels down. Other modelers recommend using dry powdered graphite (in small doses).

If you do want to oil the wheels, use a light-weight, plastic-safe oil like Labelle #107.


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

MtRR75 said:


> 3:1 oil is not the best for model trains. Some lubricants will damage plastic parts over time. 3:1 oil is not labelled as plastic-safe. It is also a little too thick for wheels.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have read somewhere that transmission fluid is a good oil. Is there any truth to that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## daschnoz (Dec 12, 2016)

Thoughts on using vegetable oil?


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I would use a light oil that is specifically designed for hobby use. Hobb-e-Lube (Woodland Scenics) and LaBelle are good brands.

Never vegetable oil. It will become gummy after only a few days.


----------



## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

IronManStark said:


> I have read somewhere that transmission fluid is a good oil. Is there any truth to that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ATF (automatic transmission fluid) is very high in detergents so does a good job cleaning. It would not be my first choice for lubricating model trains.



daschnoz said:


> Thoughts on using vegetable oil?


Will gum and turn rancid. Not very good lubricating properties, either.


----------



## IronManStark (Jan 15, 2017)

Nikola said:


> ATF (automatic transmission fluid) is very high in detergents so does a good job cleaning. It would not be my first choice for lubricating model trains.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I should of been more specific on that. 
I was talking about ATF, and as a cleaner/ rust prevention for storage. 
That would be what I use to clean my locomotives when I first get them to start restoring. Same with the metal wheels on trucks. Like on penn line brand cars. I have also had good luck with brake fluid to remove rust/ corrosion off of steel. 
With that said I never use it to run as a lubricant for my locomotives. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

IronManStark said:


> I should of been more specific on that.
> I was talking about ATF, and as a cleaner/ rust prevention for storage.
> That would be what I use to clean my locomotives when I first get them to start restoring. Same with the metal wheels on trucks. Like on penn line brand cars. I have also had good luck with brake fluid to remove rust/ corrosion off of steel.
> With that said I never use it to run as a lubricant for my locomotives.
> ...


Gotcha. ATF is a great cleaner. It will tend to leave a film behind. I attracts dust, too. Use it to clean, degrease, and perhaps use a gun storage spray lube for storage.


----------

