# looking for a generic smoke unit



## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Going with our SW Pa coal theme, I'm thinking of adding a row of coke ovens and would like to add a glowing red interior with smoke to the oven. So I'm looking for a generic fan driven smoke unit to mount under the table and duct up to the ovens.

I did a google search and found a bunch on info but few sellers. 

Any ideas where to find one is appreciated... I did check on ebay and saw a couple on there but am unsure how they work or wiring that's necessary.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They make smoke units for diesels that would emit continuous smoke, might look into one of those.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I would look into a theatrical smoke generator, otherwise you won't be able to breath in a short time of running it! LED fire units will give you the right flicker and flame look!


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

NIMT.COM said:


> I would look into a theatrical smoke generator, otherwise you won't be able to breath in a short time of running it! LED fire units will give you the right flicker and flame look!


Good point. I did consider the amount but figured we wouldn't run it constantly but the theater smoke unit is a good idea. my neighbor has one that I'll try.:thumbsup:


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

You do not want to use a standard fog machine. You will most likely want to go with either a very small fog machine under 400 watts or get a small hazer. The hazer will cost a little bit more but will not put out giant white clouds of smoke more like a light fog type output so it would fit the look you want very well. Another thing to consider is the type of fluid you use for it. Depending on if it is oil based or water based (most are water based) there is a company that makes a line of fog fluids called Black Label. I have used their fluid before. Mine was the fluid to make larger amounts of fog that last longer but they also make some hazer and some atmospheric fluid as well. The atmospheric while I do not know how it looks is designed to disperse quickly into very small partices so after it leaves the furnace stacks it will disipate varyly quickly and not fog up the whole room.

You can run piping under the layout from the fogger or hazer and at the base under the layout where the furnace stacks are you could ad in a booster fan to help keep the fog moving. Also make sure if you do install the tubing to leave a two to one inch gap between the pipe and the fog nozzle or drill holes in the pipe near the fog nozzle otherwise the fog fluid will not faporive and will just shoot hot liquid out.

I have done lighting for bands and schools and the like as well as some theatre applications as well so this is not just a bunch of hooobla.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> You do not want to use a standard fog machine. You will most likely want to go with either a very small fog machine under 400 watts or get a small hazer. The hazer will cost a little bit more but will not put out giant white clouds of smoke more like a light fog type output so it would fit the look you want very well. Another thing to consider is the type of fluid you use for it. Depending on if it is oil based or water based (most are water based) there is a company that makes a line of fog fluids called Black Label. I have used their fluid before. Mine was the fluid to make larger amounts of fog that last longer but they also make some hazer and some atmospheric fluid as well. The atmospheric while I do not know how it looks is designed to disperse quickly into very small partices so after it leaves the furnace stacks it will disipate varyly quickly and not fog up the whole room.
> 
> You can run piping under the layout from the fogger or hazer and at the base under the layout where the furnace stacks are you could ad in a booster fan to help keep the fog moving. Also make sure if you do install the tubing to leave a two to one inch gap between the pipe and the fog nozzle or drill holes in the pipe near the fog nozzle otherwise the fog fluid will not faporive and will just shoot hot liquid out.
> 
> I have done lighting for bands and schools and the like as well as some theatre applications as well so this is not just a bunch of hooobla.


Wow, thanks for the info! I'm thinking that I really don't need a whole lot of smoke so something small is prob what I need. i'll look into a "hazer".

Thanks again!


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I have one of these

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/667-117E


I removed the smoke stack from the Lionel Freight Station and put the unit in.

(mine was black when I purchased it years ago)

It puts out the perfect amount of smoke. Walthers has others which put out more.

I use a momentary switch to activate it. It is fun for the little guys to play with.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

I just searched ebay and the internet and they're (hazers) pretty salty. I'm not sure this part of the layout is worth cost. I might just go smokeless on these or use an inexpensive fan driven smoke unit and not run it all the time. It'll be a little while before we reach the point that we're building the coke ovens so I'm going to keep an open mind and explore all my options.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Dave posted a good link to a unit. It is for one smokestack which is okay but depending on how many stacks you have it could get costly as well. The hazer idea is meant for all stacks so Le Maitre is the highest grade fog/hazer company out there. There is currently a Jem which is made by Martin. They have good quality but there products cost quite a bit and are very bulky.

You would be best just getting a really small fogger with the atmospheric fog fluid.

http://www.americandj.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=1240&MainId=2&Category=Fog_Haze_Machines

Chauvet made this really micro fog machine that might be just what you are looking for.

To justify the cost of the stacks since just one stack smoke unit costs about 15 dollars so number of stacks times unit price gives you what it would cost going that route. Make sure if you do go the individual smoke unit route than you need to make sure the stacks are removable to be able to add more smoke fluid to them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

How about an ultrasonic humidifier? It'll send out harmless "smoke".


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> How about an ultrasonic humidifier? It'll send out harmless "smoke".


lol. I had one of those in my office a couple years ago and am still cleaning white powder off of things. Our water here is 75% scale and 25% H2O.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> Dave posted a good link to a unit. It is for one smokestack which is okay but depending on how many stacks you have it could get costly as well. The hazer idea is meant for all stacks so Le Maitre is the highest grade fog/hazer company out there. There is currently a Jem which is made by Martin. They have good quality but there products cost quite a bit and are very bulky.
> 
> You would be best just getting a really small fogger with the atmospheric fog fluid.
> 
> ...


I just searched ebay and this is a viable alternative... thanks for the suggestion!! Is the fog variable or will it fog out our 10' x 20 room? Sorry, I have no experience with these.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

A downside on the fog machines......do you want to fill your room up with smoke?


At a recent train show, the smoke from too many locos was quite unpleasant.


My local dealer had 2 MTH's running at Christmas. A diesel and a steamer. He had pine scenting in the locos. After a while, I had had enough Christmas atmosphere.


Just a thought.


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

Take a look here, maybe this will help:

http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=208

I've used the Aristocraft 29311 smoke units and they work quite well.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

*My smoker in action*

Here is how I use the smoker from Walthers. The pictures just don't do it justice.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Dave Sams said:


> A downside on the fog machines......do you want to fill your room up with smoke?
> 
> 
> At a recent train show, the smoke from too many locos was quite unpleasant.
> ...


We were talking about that... the reason a few suggested a hazer/fogger. At this point, I don't think it's something that I'll run all the time. Whether it be a fog unit or a small smoke unit our space is limited and the room is pretty tight. Perhaps we'll run it for a short time or when we're making video.

Coming at it from the other end, I've been looking into air purifiers for the room. Not sure how they work with train smoke - anyone try one of these? Just our new MTH Mikado and the room fills with smoke pretty fast even on "min" smoke output.

Also, we could go smokeless. But what fun would that be? I really like the idea of the coke ovens though. I do remember these everywhere when I was younger. It's a shame I took the history for granted and really didn't pay any attention to them and all the mining that was around. My grandfather worked in a mine for 40 years and would always tell stories about the area. Good times!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

vladio said:


> lol. I had one of those in my office a couple years ago and am still cleaning white powder off of things. Our water here is 75% scale and 25% H2O.


Not sure how that could happen. The vapor that comes out is distilled, no calcium left. That's all inside the humidifier, which requires a vinegar treatment every few weeks.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

*Coke ovens*

Just think of a town with a coke oven. 

The whole town is affected.

I guess you could put in a hood to capture the smoke.

An old range hood could take care of the problem.

It could be a very cool effect.


It is starting to sound like a feature article in a magazine!:laugh:


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Not sure how that could happen. The vapor that comes out is distilled, no calcium left. That's all inside the humidifier, which requires a vinegar treatment every few weeks.


That sounds like the "boil" type humidifier.... I've had all three types. The heating element boils the water and releases steam to raise the humidity.

The Ultrasonic type "vibrate" the water into airborne particles which will contain everything that's in the water.

From wikipedia:
Ultrasonic Humidifier — A metal diaphragm vibrating at an ultrasonic frequency creates water droplets that silently exit the humidifier in the form of a cool fog. Ultrasonic humidifiers use a piezo-electric transducer to create a high frequency mechanical oscillation in a body of water. The water tries to follow the high frequency oscillation but cannot because of its comparative weight and mass inertia. Thus, a momentary vacuum is created on the negative oscillation, causing the water to cavitate into vapor. The transducer follows this with a positive oscillation that creates high pressure compression waves on the water’s surface, releasing tiny vapor molecules of water into the air. This is an extremely fine mist, about one micron in diameter, that is quickly absorbed into the air flow. Unlike the humidifiers that boil water, these water droplets contain any impurities that are in the reservoir, including minerals from hard water (which then forms a difficult to remove white dust on nearby objects and furniture), and pathogens growing in the stagnant tank. Ultrasonic Humidifiers should be cleaned regularly to avoid bacterial contamination which may be projected into the air.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmm... I guess you're right.


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## vladio (Dec 11, 2010)

Dave Sams said:


> Just think of a town with a coke oven.
> 
> The whole town is affected.
> 
> ...


My grandparents lived in a "patch" which is what they called a group of houses that the coal mines built to house the mine workers. He said that the coke ovens would drown out the sunlight a lot of days with a thick smoke. Some days the kids couldn't go outside to play cause of the smoke. They would also get paid in company money that was good only at the "company store". They had quite the enterprise going for them back then. They set the prices and wages and the work was hell. He ended up dying of black lung.


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