# Diesel truck how much play is too much play?



## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

Hi all,
Again on the 370, and I know the AF diesels are not favorites for some of you but I still very much appreciate your help. I am refurbishing an old 370 that I picked up, and after hearing how difficult centering the field will be, am hoping to not have to get back into the truck for a while once I am done. Therefore, I am trying to figure out if this truck is a candidate for bushings. 
I had consulted youtube, and precisionflyerrepair suggested that 3/32 of play was a good rule of thumb. I am not sure how to really measure this. If I measure like articulation on a jeep. then I leave the wheels on one axle completely in contact with a flat surface, and rotate the other axle as high as I can, so that one wheel is on the flat surface, and the other is off the flat surface. When doing this I am measuring about .070" or about 1/16". If this is a reasonable way to measure than my truck is within spec. Anyone know what the play is in a new or freshly bushed axle, or at how many hours they wear out? 
Thanks as always!
TimmyD
I took a short video, but the extension is a .mov, so the site won't let me post it.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Did you try the three dots and select media?
In the Lionel world, axle play results in a worn out brass drive gear to the point the teeth do not work.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The 370 is one of my favorites and I have put a lot of 1/64th scale miles on them. I did have to recenter the field on my original 370 after about 50 years of heavy use. It was not hard, just tedious. Never had a 370 truck with wear that required the truck to have bushings added.
No idea how he measures the 3/32" but that is a lot. None of my 370's would wobble more than 1/16" and they run fine. Its too bad there were not conductive hobby lubricants back in the 50's. The cause of the axle hole wear was micro arcing due to the fact that the axle to chassis interface was the conduction path. The modern lubes and greases, especially the ones using silver, eliminate most all that wear.


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> The 370 is one of my favorites and I have put a lot of 1/64th scale miles on them. I did have to recenter the field on my original 370 after about 50 years of heavy use. It was not hard, just tedious. Never had a 370 truck with wear that required the truck to have bushings added.
> No idea how he measures the 3/32" but that is a lot. None of my 370's would wobble more than 1/16" and they run fine. Its too bad there were not conductive hobby lubricants back in the 50's. The cause of the axle hole wear was micro arcing due to the fact that the axle to chassis interface was the conduction path. The modern lubes and greases, especially the ones using silver, eliminate most all that wear.


Thanks Tom! So if I understand correctly, if I don't feel the truck needs rebushing immediately, and I use a conductive grease/lubricant on the axles, than I should be good to go for years to come. I have Hob-E-Lube Premium Medium Oil HL663, would you consider that a conductive lubricant? I have not found any information regarding its conductivity.
Thank you sir!
TimmyD


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

For a light oil I use Bachmann EasyLube. It states on the bottle it is conductive. If it does not say conductive on the container then it is not. For grease I am using a silver infused product, there is no doubt what it is since 1/2oz costs $50. I do not have it handy to look at the brand. I mostly use these on the newest releases of the Lionel S gauge Legacy diesels. The design was changed to use a fine gauge wire spring in the truck as the conduction path from the wheel to the circuit boards.
Be careful where the conductive lube is applied. On some of the wheels there is just a thin rubber insulator on one of the wheels where the axle inserts. It is easy to get oil on that bit of rubber and cause a short.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I am using a Silver conductive grease made by MG Chemicals, #8463. I doubt that is necessary on the 370 axles, the Bachmann lube should be fine. I use the grease at the truck springs on the new Legacy S gauge diesels.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I worked on a diesel for a customer,(against my better judgement), and the wobble was so bad, when it tried to run in reverse, the gears would jam.


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

flyernut said:


> I worked on a diesel for a customer,(against my better judgement), and the wobble was so bad, when it tried to run in reverse, the gears would jam.


Thanks Flyernut,
When I bench tested it upon its arrival and then looked at my gears they looked damaged. After stripping the truck down, the axles were so caked with grease that you could hold the truck horizontally by the wheels and the truck wouldn't drop. After cleaning the truck up a fair amount, what looked like significant gear wear largely turned out to be hardened grease. I am hoping the bushings are serviceable, and think they will be with everything else cleaned up.
Have a good day!
TimmyD


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

TimmyD said:


> Thanks Flyernut,
> When I bench tested it upon its arrival and then looked at my gears they looked damaged. After stripping the truck down, the axles were so caked with grease that you could hold the truck horizontally by the wheels and the truck wouldn't drop. After cleaning the truck up a fair amount, what looked like significant gear wear largely turned out to be hardened grease. I am hoping the bushings are serviceable, and think they will be with everything else cleaned up.
> Have a good day!
> TimmyD


CRC, non-flammable, will eat grease/oil/dirt up alive, that's all I use.. It won't hurt link couplers, but will melt knuckle couplers on contact..


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Yep flyernut I learned that melting thing the hard way. 

Kenny


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## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

flyernut said:


> CRC, non-flammable, will eat grease/oil/dirt up alive, that's all I use.. It won't hurt link couplers, but will melt knuckle couplers on contact..


I see from looking at CRC's information they have a wide range of products. Which item are you using successfully?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

miracleworker said:


> I see from looking at CRC's information they have a wide range of products. Which item are you using successfully?


CRC contact cleaner, non-flammable.Item # 1003634


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## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

I am familiar with that one for shop use. CRC specifies as not plastic safe, so I never dared use it on the trains. I use the CRC QD Electronic Cleaner spray (# 1003719) with good results. They list it as plastic safe, no damage observed. So far.


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## JMedwick (Feb 11, 2017)

I too use the CRC QD Electronic Cleaner spray and it works well.


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## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

Regarding the original poster's question, let me posit this.I am cleaning up a 466 Comet, and just made this same evaluation. Since the holes in the sides of the chassis (truck frame) tend to wear upwards, I set the locomotive upside-down in front of me, I push the wheel/axle assembly into what would be the normal upward position. If the axle is contacting the holes in the sides of the chassis, it will not rock up and down. If the gear on the axle is contacting the worm gear on the armature, you can rock the wheels up and down, which definitely shows excess wear in the side holes.

Yes I know the holes also wear front-to-back somewhat. And gears not touching might still be too close for most efficient power transfer. I am just describing what I have learned to do for a basic evaluation.

Have any of you folks done bushing replacement at home, with good results? I have seen a tool/jig kit from a company called something like Hobby Horse Products, out of Indiana I think.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The 466 is a single motor diesel. As the trucks begin to wear it will not have the pulling power margin that a dual motor diesel has. Rebushing a 466 will be important to keeping it running well. There are people who have posted here that have done their own rebushing. It takes some care and patience to drill out the trucks. Since a complete motor teardown is part of the process, reassembly takes some time and readjustments to get the armature and brushes positioned precisely. Ed Goldin (goldinhands.com) provides this service for $35 to $45/truck, depending on the model number. For that price I would always send it to an experienced pro.
Ed has converted 15 American Models engines to TMCC/Railsounds for me. The results are always worth the price, but I know I am not as good at repairs and modifications as some other modelers.


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Soon as my thrust plates come in I put new bushing in I took it to work iam a machinist by trade so set it up in a Bridgeport so it's easier for me. 
Al


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## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

alaft61ri said:


> Soon as my thrust plates come in I put new bushing in I took it to work iam a machinist by trade so set it up in a Bridgeport so it's easier for me.
> Al


That sounds like fun!


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

It is I like doing things like that.


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