# How did John Allen build his 4-10-0?



## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Okay, as the resident young "hard-head" of old time locomotives from the early days of the hobby, I've always wondered this... "What went into John Allen's 4-10-0 No.34?" I'd like to build one myself, and want to know what needs to go into one. It's on my never ending list of projects, but I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into, well before I do it. If anybody can help, thank you and God bless you.

Here's what it looks like! -


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Alot of years of knowledge!
What most :newbie:'s don't get is that it takes years of practice and experiance to do a project like this!
You just don't jump in to this hobby and do the big deal projects right off the bat.
You need to have a working knowledge of all aspects of kit bashing to build a working and quality built loco.
Start small and work your way up in skills and Maybe by the time you are of an age as John Allen was when he did all of his fine works!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Okay, maybe "hard-head" wasn't the right phrase, but I'm looking for some identification on the parts he used to make the No.34, as from what I read, this was mostly commercial parts. Many of the parts look Varney, but there are many that must have been custom built, like the linking rods would have to be custom built. This is mostly about identifing the parts. -


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Right off it looks like he used the tender and booster truck off of a Rivarossi 0-8-0 switcher...


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## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

got ot admit its cool looking !!!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Shay, I can see how a booster truck from the Rivarossi 0-8-0 could be used for a modern replica, but I think this picture was in MR in 1954 (from what I read on the fansite).

28, why do you think I dream of building one? -


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## GN.2-6-8-0 (Jan 10, 2013)

Ok' this from the locomotive roster of the G&D.....(Model Railroading with John Allen)

No.34 Heavy helper service.
Built:1952 Max speed 30mph

Boiler: varney Reading 2-8-0
Mantua 50" drivers
Varney Casey Jones cylinders
Tender was scratch built.

Unfortunely little else is explained on this engine build


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

one word....BEAUTIFUL!!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

That's a maricle! All that from his book? GN, you have give a great headstart. Thank you! -


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

The drivers were from the 0-4-0 steamer.The tender helper truck is a Kemtron piece.


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

What would have been the motor? On the fansite, I believe I read accounts the o'l locomotive could haul 60+ cars.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

How the heck anyone can look at that picture and say the drivers are such and such and the boiler is from this or that is beyond me. Like the cars of today,they all look alike to me. 
Guru building somethng like #32 takes time and patience and a reasonable bit of modeling experience and skill. The first thing to do is find a frame that will accomodate all the wheels.Then you have to find the right sized wheels and side rods to go with them. Then the cylinders then the boiler then the cab then the tender. The parts that John used on his model probably had to be machined to fit and the side rods would have been the most complicated to make. The chances of you finding all the parts for this engine that will all just fit together are slim to none.
I guess everyone would like to be able to scratch build a nice engine like Johns and you can do it too. It's just not something you can go get the parts for and put them together like a kit. I think I would search ebay for a junker with the wheel configuration that I wanted and go from there.Once you know the make of the engine base your working with you can then proceed to find and buy the parts you need to complete the project. However building like this will be more expensive than just buying a completed loco straight out. Shipping is going up again because of the price of oil and that will kill a lot of sales for a lot of people. Pete


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## GN.2-6-8-0 (Jan 10, 2013)

found the same picture of no. 34 as above but a bit larger showing the detail better.
there is a really nice coior picture of no.34 that was in the March 1954 issue of RMC but have it on my kindle and am unable to post it from there,will dig around and see if i can find it again on my desktop using google.


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

*Maybe we can pull it off...*

Okay, thinking back, the Bachmann 2-10-0 is based off the Russian Y(E)-Class Decapods of the Great War (WW1), and those babies had 51" drivers. Now take a Bachmann Reading 2-8-0 Boiler (hard to come by in genera)l, and build from there. Say, does anybody have a Varney Casey Jones and a scale ruler for HO (We need scale cylinder demensions). Add to this, a modified Rivarossi 0-8-0 Tender, with the booster truck, some slight visual modifications, and I think it may be visually pulled off (not to the original's standard, but close).

I just remembere too, who holds No. 34. One of the top brass at Kalmbach Publishing. If anybody has pictures of the o'l boomer today, it would be greatly appreciated.


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## GN.2-6-8-0 (Jan 10, 2013)

Think I read that its andy sperandeo that has no.34 in a display case in his office at Kalmbach publishing.


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Since most of Johns work was lost in a fire Andy's #34 would really be something to own and pricy too. Pete


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

trainguru,
Why be a copy cat? 
Just make your own the way you would like it to look!
Why steal from John Allen, he already proved many times over that he could build just about anything! So it's your turn to step up and show us what you can build, without coping someone elses work!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

I've been contemplating that, and Bachmann sells all the parts of it's range. That's a smidge far off I'll admit. However, I'm like Rev. W. Audry (Thomas's creator), a sucker for oddities. I like o'l 34, and the 4-10-0 was not developed passed the Centeral Pacific's *"El Gobernador"*, so John's was sort of an "evolution" of the fantasy sort, which turned out great. I'll take your words to heart NIMT, thanks. -


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## GN.2-6-8-0 (Jan 10, 2013)

here's the colored picture of ol' no. 34 that was printed in the March 1954 issue of RMC.


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## New Berlin RR (Feb 11, 2012)

trainguru said:


> I've been contemplating that, and Bachmann sells all the parts of it's range. That's a smidge far off I'll admit. However, I'm like Rev. W. Audry (Thomas's creator), a sucker for oddities. I like o'l 34, and the 4-10-0 was not developed passed the Centeral Pacific's *"El Gobernador"*, so John's was sort of an "evolution" of the fantasy sort, which turned out great. I'll take your words to heart NIMT, thanks. -


Indeed, why copy something when you can build it your self and make it your own creation?? Im designing a few odd balls my self that are quite.......odd....big but odd, but meh its my road and I like odd ball engines running on my layout


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

*I Already Have Actually...*



New Berlin RR said:


> Indeed, why copy something when you can build it your self and make it your own creation?? Im designing a few odd balls my self that are quite.......odd....big but odd, but meh its my road and I like odd ball engines running on my layout


AMEN Berlin!

I actually have an oddball (I designed an oddball, and a friend assembled it for me, but I added the final touch! Try to figure it out?). Here it is:

The Evergreen Road's *"Bush-Suzler/ALCO/Westinghhouse"* Boxcab Diesel.









In 1933, the Evergreen Road's "Top Brass" set out for a diesel-electric locomotive. Bernard Thomas Oliver (E.L. Oliver's father), bought leftover parts from Alco's boxcab partnership, a brand new Bush-Suzler (the beer people made diesel engines during prohibition), diesel engine, and ordered from Westinghouse, electrical components identical to Canadian National's No.9000, (the two-unit boxcab of 1929), and signed a huge spare parts contract with each of the manufacturing parties. The result was on April 8th, 1934, a brand new diesel was unvield in Olympia, Washington, and has been in continuous service ever since.








with a 2,150HP Bush-Suzler diesel engine (influenced by Mrs. Peabody, wife of the Black Ball Line ferry company president), a 2-Do-2 wheel arrangement, 2 steam generators, and meant for general service, this locomotive is one powerful iron horse. One unique aspect, is her pilot trucks, which a major locomotive manufacturer discovered in the 1960's, and has paid royalties for years after (can anybody say U-boat locomotives?). The charmer is one fine locomotive, and a little known inovation and contribution to railroading from the backshop of the Evergreen Roads!


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## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

wow that is one strange looking beast !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

pssst next time resize your pics


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## GN.2-6-8-0 (Jan 10, 2013)

Looks like you spliced together a couple of the old MDC box cabs,........looks great!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you, I actually bought the body and the chassie in 2011, and wo rked with a friend putting the whole unit together! The Driving Center Truck, was actually photocoppied out of a book I own! -  - The locomotive is actually one of my favorites!


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## some guy (1 mo ago)

So... how's it gone?


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## some guy (1 mo ago)

So... how's it gone?


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Went very well. My Boxcab's story changed, but the core elements of the 2,000HP Busch-Sulzer remains. I'm in the process of planning my new layout.


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## some guy (1 mo ago)

That's good


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