# N layout coming along slowly



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

So after dealing with my mom going looney tunes and having to be committed to the State hospital twice now within a month and work being full of fruitless promises and being unbelievably sick for the last week, I have finally gotten back to doing my stress relief hobby.
got 4 new engines that will be in this week and just need to decoder them and away they go

here's what i've got so far


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Outstanding. The best things take time to complete.


----------



## cyborgdog (Jan 14, 2013)

Really cool how you tucked the mountain underneath the stairs. Looking good!


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks!

This one is going to take me a while! I'm trying to do everything in steps rather than rush to lay out all the track just to run the trains then forget about the rest of it.

I wanted the incline to go the opposite way but when i was laying it out to test the 45* of the stairs bit me in the butt on that one so and over under she became. that's only sitting at 4" with the track below at about 2" then there is the other part of the main that leaves the yard at 0 so looking at it from a couple angles with a train passing over itself and another leaving the yard is going to look cool.

Laying the start of the yard now will have pics later


----------



## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Looks great Steve and nice rebound into N scale from HO scale!


----------



## Ranger (Mar 4, 2012)

looking good


----------



## Raptorman83 (Feb 8, 2013)

Nice job!

Are you going with all flex track?


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

yup! i'm using Peco 300 and 302

here's a look down the yard on the lower level my longest yard track will be a little over 12'


----------



## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Holymoly 12 foot long yard tracks... Nice:thumbsup: You must have a good chunk of rolling stock to fill that sucker with

Is that the 3% or 4% ws foam risers? I went with the 2% 4inch rise in 16feet, yours seems to be a tad taller, so im guessing atleast 3%

Your layout is looking awesome, i like the hills 

What type of industries are you going to have on the layout?


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

all the inclines are 2% the reason that one in the back looks taller is cause it is. on top of the pink foam after the bridge is a 2% starter going to a 1/2" riser with another starter on top to make 5" with a 4" riser, which is the starting point of my helix to go up 15" to the next level wich will be the town and such.

not really sure what i'm doing for structures and industries yet, i know i'm ordering a lot of Pikestuff kits and there are a few walthers ones i'd love to get my hands on. Pretty much going to be an Iowa/Illinois layout so lots of different things can happen.

I've got around 100 cars so far and 10 engines not listed on ebay LOL and still stock piling! Just got an SD70ACE in today and 3 ES44AC's coming in Wednesday


----------



## Conductorjoe (Dec 1, 2011)

Looking good..... :thumbsup: Luv the yard thats awesome. I am thinking about expanding mine. I like looooong trains.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

so do I! LOL I'm hoping to be able to pull 30-35 car trains up the grades and helixes with 3 engines each but we'll have to see how far i can take it. (still building the helixes)


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

well other than laying the yard i'm having some fun with paints trying to come up with a good base color


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

a look northbound from the end of the 12' yard


----------



## blackz28 (Jan 6, 2013)

soo steve ya gonna model NHN


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

maybe at some point. new england rails kinda bore me


----------



## Oboy Railroads (Feb 10, 2012)

Man that's looking nice. You're going to have some nice long trains rolling on your layout. :thumbsup:


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

now to take a break and get back to business on the layout!!! Did some more framing and cutting and all the other happy stuff that involves power tools (still have to do the upper deck of this thing) Been messing around with how i want the track to go on the lower level and i finally got that mostly figured out. now on to the photos cause this thing is taking a long while to get anywhere!!!


----------



## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

blackz28 said:


> soo steve ya gonna model NHN


whats NHN?


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

New Hampshire Northcoast, it's a short line up here in NH that runs from Ossippee, NH to Boston, Ma hauling mostly aggregate but does get propane tankers and such in as well.


----------



## outlaw bill (Apr 3, 2013)

Man that is looking good! When I can get started I will have a 16' run by about 6'. Keep up the good work.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

outlaw bill said:


> Man that is looking good! When I can get started I will have a 16' run by about 6'. Keep up the good work.


thanks!! when ya do get going let me know what ya need. i've got a bunch of what i call scrap flex that's all Atlas and 30" and under pieces that i'm not going to use. i'm using Peco code 80 both concrete tie and wood tie


----------



## outlaw bill (Apr 3, 2013)

Will do. I'm just getting antsy right now waiting for the track you sent. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

I sent it priority so hopefully Monday will be the day!!


----------



## outlaw bill (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm hopeing!!!!!


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

got a little more progress made now i'm to decide if i want to tunnel and hide the lower tracks( while still leaving room to get in and fix derailments and such) or do a double bridge thing. i'm kinda partial to the tunnel thing but what do you think?

now where you see it is real open behind the riser that will be covered over just can't do much right now cause Yankee Daddler screwed me on my track order over a month ago still haven't gotten it!!! this is all i can do


----------



## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

i am parcel to bridges, but if a tunnel will add to the wounder of"where did it go" then do a hole in the ground.


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Sawgunner......I think it takes time to produce great things. Foam is such a great medium to work with, as noted in your work.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

well just learned another lesson today. paint on top of plaster cloth not such a good idea when the stuff under the cloth is very good for being "structural" mountain came down tonite and redoing it in a different manner. who'd a thunk that 4 layers of plaster cloth would become mush after a coat of paint.

stay tuned as it's going to be a minute.


----------



## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

What happened to the plaster? Not set up long enough or some reaction with the paint?


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Not too sure what happened. I used latex paint and the plaster cloth had been well set for over 3 months. It was rock hard. Now it needs Viagra!!


----------



## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh man. That's no bueno. 

Make sure none of those side effects that take 3/4 of the commercial to list happen! :laugh:


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

let's hope not!!


well it's stripped down to a bare slate again. she will be rebuilt when i have money again. about the only thing not getting redone is the yard at this point. making a few adjustments to the main line run while everything is tore up again


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Strange, did you take a picture?

I never had a problem with the cloth doing that.


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Very nice to see the progress.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

no didn't get a pic of it but the tearing out part was loads of fun (being sarcastic) the wife came down this morning and went what the hell all that money wasted!! so i've had to deal with that all day.

also what was under the plaster cloth was just a mound of random pieces of foam and such that made it possible to get all the peaks and cuts in it for the outer shape. there were a lot of areas where the cloth was just draped over 2 or 3 points and made a hammock kinda thing. so this next time i'm going to crave everything out of the foam and make the mountain that way. there fore no more draping action and see if it holds better.


----------



## outlaw bill (Apr 3, 2013)

Sorry to hear about the land slide and collapse. Hope there was no damage to anything else. Keep us posted on the new progress.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

so far i'm still in the clean up stages. need to figure out what i'm doing. that plaster cloth wasn't cheap. so off to the drawing board i go again....


----------



## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

that sucks.

I only had one layer of plaster cloth (I'm tight ), and lathered it up with a couple of layers (actually only one I tihnk, cos I'm tight ) of plaster of paris on top. and it was good to go.
I even mixed acrylic (you call it latex) paint in with the plaster mix to tint it so I didn't have to paint as much. :laugh:

Hope it goes better for you next time :thumbsup:


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

i'll do the tint thing next time as well with the plaster of paris top. i was debating about topping it with another shell (plaster) but didn't. I'm also going to use scenic express plaster cloth as it's cheaper than woodland scenics and it's the same roll


----------



## JPIII (Jun 24, 2012)

I gave up on plaster (& plaster) cloth after giving it a fair trial......then moved on. ....


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Try some of the flexible, open weave material that nurses use to hold gauze in-place. Then overlay that with joint compound paste. Can get the same tape at Home Depot where it is sold as dry wall corner material.

Another thought is to use a dry joint compound and mix a solution with less than the recommended amount of water (dry to give the paste a little more body).

On steep slopes, I would think that a number of thin coats of joint compound would hold a little bit better that a larger mass of compound.

Just some thoughts


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

dry wall compound is the next step as soon as i build the new mountain. got plenty of scrap foam to do it it's just hard cause of where it's located on the layout. also need to get another 2% incline as the last one got toasted on removal of all the plaster cloth.

now would i be safe using the bucket of compound or do you recommend getting it in powder form? ( i have no clue as to if the bucket is powder or not)


----------



## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

I prefer the drywall compound in powder form. You can mix it a few different ways instead of having one consistency of the premixed mud in a bucket.. the bag stuff never goes bad since its not mixed.. but alot of people still like the mud in the bucket since they do not have to mix it...
I like having the option of being able to mix it thick or super wet and thin if need be...


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Do consider the dry mix. I would first suggest a small bag to start, this will give you the opportunity to see how far a bag will go. Too start, I would suggest a firm mix and applied in a thin coat and then followed by a slightly less firm mixes, again applied in thin coats. Thin coats also will allow you to play with the character of the mountain......some areas might be rough will others may be semi or totally smooth. Too back all this drywall compound, WS's idea of applying crumpled newspapers, and holding them in place with cardboard strips might work. I think their web site talks about this method. If not you can pay their little manual on layout building, etc. I have found the manual be a great tool in helping me in understanding and applying ground turf, bushes, etc.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Steve, when you painted did you spray paint or hand paint it on?


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

i'll go pick up a small bag of the mix tonight and try it out on a test section. right now all has pretty much been stripped from one half of the layout as i rethink my plans. 

I've been looking around at all the track plans on Model Railroader and am attempting to take bits and pieces from each one i like and make it into my own dream world sorta speak. will have pics of the blank canvas in a minute. Y'all can have some fun if you want tossing your ideas for the space out. i'll give ya the measurements too


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Ed I hand painted it on with latex based house paint


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sawgunner said:


> Ed I hand painted it on with latex based house paint


That is strange I have been searching a little on the subject and that should not have happened with that paint.
I had have no problems with mine?

I did find an article that says the only spray paint safe to use is,
A copy and paste,
*Krylon H2o Latex Spray Paint* - *the label MUST read H2o* - _regular Krylon spray melts foam._

If anything I don't think the cloth melted but the foam underneath it did.
The foam did melt too right?


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

the pile of random foam looked alright the white foam pieces looked a little rough but the pink stuff was fine. I'm thinking a combination of thick latex paint, hammocking plaster cloth with no support, and inferior foam led to the bad day for the mountain. I've known about the regular spray paint melting foam but have never seen the plaster cloth go to mush and never re-harden even after 2 days of drying. i would never have been able to landscape it with every move readjusting the cloth underneath. it is really strange to me.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

looking from this picture is 24" wide by 210" long (at 150" it becomes 4' wide)


these next 2 pics show the start of the 4' wide section with the piece going towards the yard. also the section that is under the 45* section of the stairs is a 4' by 5' table than can be disconected and moved


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

WOW Your wife is right!
What did you do! 

Well if the plaster cloth was not braced from underneath somehow, the water based paint would dissolve the plaster. 
If the cloth was laid over something the paint would have just filled in the voids and would have made it harder after it dried.

I am guessing that is what you mean with this statement,
"hammocking plaster cloth with no support"

The cloth was originally used to make body casts for things you broke like arms and legs. They do need something under them.


OH well, before your wife tells you I will.

GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME! 

Buy her some flowers and take her out to dinner. 
She will get over it.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

that would be the precise meaning of that statement LOL. working on a new game plan for the track to hide the yard on a lower level (staging) and just have half the layout be multi level rather than the whole thing.


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Easy step, install a vertical piece of Masonite to hid the yard, appropriately decorate. Might want to thing about a mirror to see what is going in the yard.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

yup gotta go get more plywood. the piece going on top of the yard is going to be 6" above the yard and open at the front as i cannot get around to the back part of that section. going to have it finished off with a curtain skirt as well as the entire out side of the layout


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

before i get going too nuts on this. is it possible to use a tortoise through 3.5" of foam and wood? or should i build a platform for where the switches will be?


----------



## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

found this. thought it may help some one.

http://www.tc-nmra.org/TC-Library/October Clinic For Internet and Lightening Slinger.pdf

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpko5rxM9pI


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

That video is a wonderful tool for mountain building.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

basic track plans so far. still a work in progress


----------



## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

that is some yard.


----------



## Ranger (Mar 4, 2012)

does that yard come with it's own zip code


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

it's should actually have 2 LOL

it's my hidden staging and storage yard. there is a part of the layout 9" above it


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Well after a lot of thought, calculations, and an entire strip down of the layout I am now going the "big boy" route of doing my inclines and such. I came up with the new layout plan for the front and sides of the layout and considered it more cost effective to do it the traditional route rather than the WS foam risers and inclines (those get really pricey with as many redo's as I've had). here is a pic of the start of it, need to hit up Home Depot to get some more lumber and such to finish the front portion of the layout.


----------



## MBlair (Mar 19, 2013)

Is that a george foreman grill in the middle? Id starve to death if i didnt have one.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

yup! there is also a brand new 18 piece T-Fal set under there and loads of other stuff including my "spare coffee pot" LOL


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

ok small update. got some roadbed laid and more woodwork done. still a long way to go


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Wow, now your cutting it up....what is the wife saying now? 

You going to have a yard! :thumbsup:


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Well the wife didn't like me spending money on the inclines so I told her this was the only other way to change the elevations so she didn't really have a say she came home they were cut lol. $40 a sheet for plywood vs $20 an incline set and more for the risers


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Like the progress. Take your wife to dinner to announce the bad news.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well....you went from HO to N.

Tell her your thinking about going to Z scale now.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

New benchwork in progress for 2 of my tables! (was just easier doing it that way LOL)

SAFETY NOTE: BTW Alcohol and power tools do not mix!!!


----------



## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

i see that your not using insulation as a base. any reason?


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Took it out when i stopped using the WS inclines and risers. It echoed quite a bit of noise when i ran a train over it with all metal wheels as well. a train of all plastic wheels was quiet as can be. Everything was put down with latex caulking so I shouldn't have gottten the reverb that I did


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Sure sorry to hear about your problem. Hope you don't paint it baby-poop brown.....when it turned to goop that would be a horrible thing to see. Suggest a minimum of 24 hour dry time. If you are putting on any coats of wall board compound, suggest a little a time. Too many coasts at once seems to cause the compound to want to try at a snails pace. Just my thoughts.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Carl said:


> Hope you don't paint it baby-poop brown.....when it turned to goop that would be a horrible thing to see.



Close it was painted Bark Brown from ACE LOL!!!

So far I have 2.5 new tables built. The 2x4 frame work didn't allow me to do what i really wanted to so I have switched to 1x4 lumber to make the frames. Will have some pics up later


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

what Layout??


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Man, she must have got really pissed off.

Got any hot dogs?


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

You have got trouble, my friend....best you get her out to dinner.


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

The layout is coming together nicely with the new benchwork. Need to get a job so I can finish the benchwork. Lower levels are 90% done and need to get moving on the second deck.
The yard is at 41" the front of the L is at 45.5" then the upper level is at 50"

Going to set the last piece of the 45.5 leve in then take some pics


----------



## sawgunner (Mar 3, 2012)

Yay Pics!!!


----------



## Carl (Feb 19, 2012)

Looking good.


----------

