# Please help me get this Loco running again!



## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi guys and first off I must say that this is a great forum with a ton of good information. I have searched for answers to my problem, but haven't found the answer.I am completely new to the hobby and I'm learning as I go. I don't know anyone else that works on trains, so I am bringing my questions to you. 

I picked up a Lionel 2037 from Ebay and I received it and gave it a good cleaning and some lubrication. On the first test it ran around the track nicely for a few minutes and then it stopped and wouldn't move forward or backwards. I wiggled with the switch on top back and forth and it started to run again. After another 5 or 6 loops around the track it stopped running again. 

I took off the shell and hard wired it for testing and it made a buzzing sound, but the wheels would not turn. I played around with it for a few more minutes and then nothing was happening at all (not even the buzzing sound). Did I short out the motor? What should my next step be to try and fix the problem? Any suggestions as to where I can find a wiring diagram?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

DK,

Welcome to the forum ... and the trainheads madness! Hopefully, we can help get your postwar 2037 running again.

First ... the lever on top of the loco shell is to either engage or disengage the auto-reverse "e-unit". When engaged, the loco will cycle through directions with each throttle-down (power-down) as follows: fwd, neutral, reverse, neutral ... repeat.

With old locos, it's common that the e-unit gets a bit sticky ... or won't function properly becuase of misplaced tiny electrical contact "fingers".

If you move the lever to the disengaged position, the e-unit will keep the loco in whatever its last directional setting was. NOte, however, that that could be in NEUTRAL, in which case the loco won't go!

You say you hard-wired the motor. How, specifically? It's important that electrical power is jumped to the proper locations. Wrong locations (such as the two brush holders) can short out the motor!

I've attached a wiring diagram.

Post some pics of the motor (with the shell removed, and we'll try to help you out.

TJ


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> DK,
> 
> Welcome to the forum ... and the trainheads madness! Hopefully, we can help get your postwar 2037 running again.
> 
> ...



thanks TJ! I knew I shouldn't have played with hard wiring it (because I don't know what I'm doing) but I was enjoying myself, so I kept going. 

Here are two pictures of it with the shell off. The red line that I drew was a piece of wire that was coming from the e-unit switch but it wasn't connected to anything else (it was just suspended in mid-air when I removed the shell). When I hard-wired the motor I put one wire on the roller and the other I was touching to on of the wheels but I did touch other parts of the motor with the ground wire. If I did "short it out" am I completely screwed?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The e-unit is gravity dependent. The motor must be upright for it to work properly.

Give your power test another "upright" shot. One wire to a roller, other to the motor frame or drive wheel, as you did.

Just trying to rule things out.


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> The e-unit is gravity dependent. The motor must be upright for it to work properly.
> 
> Give your power test another "upright" shot. One wire to a roller, other to the motor frame or drive wheel, as you did.
> 
> Just trying to rule things out.


Thanks, I will test it as soon as I get home. Like I said earlier, it wasn't even making a buzzing noise after awhile. If I did touch one of the brush plates and shorted out the motor is there anything I can do to fix that, or do I have to buy a whole new motor? 

PS- Sorry for my ignorance, I'm still learning.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Well, hopefully you haven't fried the thing.

I'm confused, though. Your sketched "red wire" runs from the BACK side of the fiber plate on the e-unit ... the side with the lever. Was there really a wire here, or instead ...

... are you trying to show that one of the EXISTING wires on the FRONT of the fiber plate (I see one dark wire, and one lighter wire) has disconnected on its far end, and is just hanging out in space???

Important question for debugging ...

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, for not knowing what your doing you did great so far as you managed to figure out how to get the shell off without asking how.

I would guess that the loose wire would go where all the others are.
Unless it is longer then it might go some where else.

Where is that loose wire I can't see it in the picture?
The opposite end of that loose wire where is it hooked up to? 

TJ where did you get the diagram? Is Olsen's site up now? Or did you get that from your book?

Ha HA Ha we now have a flag from down under. But now it needs a little picture where you pick it and England's needs one too.

We have a problem with their flag it does not show?


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> Well, hopefully you haven't fried the thing.
> 
> I'm confused, though. Your sketched "red wire" runs from the BACK side of the fiber plate on the e-unit ... the side with the lever. Was there really a wire here, or instead ...
> 
> ...


I am trying to show a wire on the front of the plate that has disconnected. It is not the light or the dark wire though. It is an uninsulated piece of wire. Maybe it connects to the coil?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That might be the light wire?


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

big ed said:


> That might be the light wire?


No, there is a wire that goes directly to the light. This wire is bare and only about 1.5 inches long.


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

big ed said:


> Welcome to the forum, for not knowing what your doing you did great so far as you managed to figure out how to get the shell off without asking how.
> 
> I would guess that the loose wire would go where all the others are.
> Unless it is longer then it might go some where else.
> ...


The loose wire is connected to the e-unit switch (where the light and smoke wire is soldered).


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

DK81 said:


> The loose wire is connected to the e-unit switch (where the light and smoke wire is soldered).


Then it most likely goes to the coil.

In the diagram TJ put look at the bottom of the e unit coil that might be the loose wire.


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

big ed said:


> Then it most likely goes to the coil.


Thanks. I am still wondering what I should do if I fried the motor already. Is it worth it to buy a new one, or can this one be rebuilt?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

DK81 said:


> Thanks. I am still wondering what I should do if I fried the motor already. Is it worth it to buy a new one, or can this one be rebuilt?


I don't think you fried it if you only touched it.
I have done the same thing years ago.

Edit,

Are you home now? Just take a jumper wire and touch it to both sides (bottom of the e unit coil and where you think it broke off of) and see what happens, first look to see if the bottom e unit coil wire is hooked up.
Maybe the wire goes somewhere else.


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

big ed said:


> I don't think you fried it if you only touched it.
> I have done the same thing years ago.
> 
> Edit,
> ...


Thanks Ed, I'll be home in about an hour and will test it shortly thereafter. I've spent almost my entire day researching this, so I feel confident that I can get it running again. I've only been in to model trains for about two weeks now, but I'm definitely hooked!! I enjoy tinkering with them and figuring it all out.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You need to pick up a manual to help you, this one is $25 bucks there are others. If you look you can get them cheaper too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenbergs-Repair-and-Operating-Manual-for-Lionel-Trains-1945-1969-Seventh-ed-/121029060520?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c2de4e7a8

We use a site for reference and pictures here but it has been down since the Hurricane blew through and the owner is not in too big of a hurry to fix it.

But there are a ton of other useful sites listed here on this site.
This link is in our O forum. It is a little messy trying to find some things but if you search through it the T man (and others) added a lot of helpful things there. It needs to be organized a little yet.

Here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5946

But if you need to know don't be afraid to ask, someone should try to help you out.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

DK,

It looks like one of the copper enamel-covered wires that goes to the e-unit solenoid coil has broken off. But to be sure ...

On the left side of the back of the e-unit (the fiber plate), the soldered connection there has 4 wires, as follows (please confirm) ...

one running to the pickup rollers that touch the center rail

one running to the light socket

one running down futher into the e-unit (to the "finger plate" below)

one (your broken one) that should run to the e-unit solenoid coil.

If that last wire is, in fact, broken, the e-unit won't work. You may be able to unwind a portion of the coil, and re-solder it back ... maybe.

If the e-unit coil is inoperative (because of the broken wire) that does NOT mean that the motor itself is fried. Chances are, it'll still run if you can bypass the e-unit.

I'll wait for your response, then we'll take next steps ...

(Ed ... Olsen's still down .. I copied the wiring diagram from my Lionel CD pdf.)

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is what I am thinking that it broke off the coil.
Strange that it broke off by itself?

TJ I tried picking the England flag in this post but all that comes up in the name England.
That needs fixing also, for the guys across the big pond.

Don't mess with the USA flag now!


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> DK,
> 
> It looks like one of the copper enamel-covered wires that goes to the e-unit solenoid coil has broken off. But to be sure ...
> 
> ...


Thanks TJ.

So last night I went home and found that the loose wire was supposed to be connected to the e-unit coil. I soldered back on and got the loco running again. Thank you everyone for your help. I had a lot of fun fixing it too!

The problem now is that it will only go in reverse. I think it may be that the e-unit is sticking? There is a little green plastic gear near the finger plate and it looks like it is trying to turn over, but will not unless you give it a little poke with a screwdriver. I am assuming that I have to take everything apart and clean the whole e-unit. Any other suggestions?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You want to get any contamination out of the plunger hole of the E-unit, I use contact cleaner spray to flush it out. A tiny drop of light oil on the pivots of the ratchet, and then see if it'll cycle.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

DK,

Progress! Well .. _some_ progress. Glad to hear it.

E-units are finicky beasts. They must all be female, I think!

Try John's lube idea. However, it may be that one of the contact fingers is bent away from the little ratchet drum.

If you want to show 'em who's boss, I would recommend that you watch this two-part service video ... it's really well done, and steps one through how to whip e-units back into shape! Again, highly recommended video ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6131

Cheers,

TJ


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> DK,
> 
> Progress! Well .. _some_ progress. Glad to hear it.
> 
> ...


That video is great! I am going to try and clean it up and see what happens. I'm only going to take it all apart if I must.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TJ will tell you, the dis-assembly is the last resort!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yup! It's my "27 fingers needed" theory.

Try to clean/lube per John's comment, first ... hopefully, that will get things going without open heart surgery.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cHF_a6CNM

This is not a bad video on the e unit.
The guy is a little slow moving but not a bad tutorial on a e unit.

This is part one, there is a part two to pick afterwards that finishes it up. 

I just screwed around with one and one of the finger plates broke I use electrical tape to fix it to see if the motor would run.

It is still running, surprised me. I do have to fix it right now that it was given to me.

Like TJ says you need a whole bunch of fingers and a good supply of cuss words to work on them.

You can see what happened to the one I pulled out of the motor, it just fell apart.hwell:
It is in here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15024


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed ... Same video as the one I gave in Post 21, above! (T-Man "found" these and posted them in a thread a while back.)

In regards to the "27 fingers" thing, I will say this ...

The first time through, one should save a "designated finger" to point in the air during the e-unit open heart surgery. It doesn't really help the mechanics much, but it sure makes the process feel much better.

After a few open-hearts, though, the process does get more doable ... I've done a bunch, and you sort of get into a pattern where things go more quickly. No "designated finger in the air" at this point for me ... well ... sometimes!



TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK....I found that while working on that hurricane save.
I did not click on your link.

The guy moves a little slow but the video helped me piece mine back together.:thumbsup:


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

One way you can get to the drum contacts is cut some small pieces of green scotch-brite pad and glue it on a q-tip. GENTLY work it on the surfaces, you need patience but it does work. After that a quick spray with contact cleaner followed by some compressed air. Yes, I've used that tactic to avoid disassembling my e-unit.

Carl


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

Kwikster said:


> One way you can get to the drum contacts is cut some small pieces of green scotch-brite pad and glue it on a q-tip. GENTLY work it on the surfaces, you need patience but it does work. After that a quick spray with contact cleaner followed by some compressed air. Yes, I've used that tactic to avoid disassembling my e-unit.
> 
> Carl


Its funny that you posted this last night at the very same time I had already cut up a scotch brite and stuck it to qtip! Great minds think alike!


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

So I removed the e-unit (without disassembling) and cleaned everything that I saw. There was a bit of grime and oil residue on the gear and finger plate. The plastic ratchet and the drum were easily cleaned with a little scotch brite stuck to a qtip. The plunger was falling freely and seemed to be in good working order.I put everything back together and put it on the track and NOW IT WON'T EVEN RUN IN REVERSE!!! (it was only running in reverse previously). HELP!!!

My question to you: The fingers touching the drum are all cleaned and touching the drum with no problems. *BUT, the two fingers under the drum are not touching it at all. Are they supposed to be? I may have bent them away from the drum while cleaning with the scotch brite. * Hopefully someone will tell me that those two fingers on the bottom should be touching and I can reassemble and it will work fine. I didn't have time to take it apart again last night because it was already 2am and I had work at 7am (haha). I'll tinker again this evening.


Thanks again for everyone's input and help. It really makes a hobby better when you have a forum to come to for support!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes, absolutely ... the two fingers on the bottom of the drum should be touching the drum itself. As the drum rotates, the fingers there should make electrical contact with either the copper "insert" in the left side of the drum, or the copper "insert" on the right side of the drum. This is needed to complete the circuit directing the motor to fwd or reverse.

If you're careful, you can bend the fingers back into position with a few strategic pokes with a toothpick.

TJ


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> Yes, absolutely ... the two fingers on the bottom of the drum should be touching the drum itself. As the drum rotates, the fingers there should make electrical contact with either the copper "insert" in the left side of the drum, or the copper "insert" on the right side of the drum. This is needed to complete the circuit directing the motor to fwd or reverse.
> 
> If you're careful, you can bend the fingers back into position with a few strategic pokes with a toothpick.
> 
> TJ


Thanks TJ, The whole train is as clean as a whistle since I've had it apart the last three days and this should be my last step to get it fully operational. 

As I mentioned earlier, the motor only ran in reverse for the first couple days I had it. Is it possible that it was only going in reverse because only ONE of those bottom fingers were touching? I hope that is the case because then it should be fully operational once I get both fingers touching again.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

DK,

Yes, it is possible that the loco will run in only one direction if one of the fingers isn't contacting the drum.

Take a look at this e-unit / motor wiring diagram that I made for my 1681 loco. It shows how the e-unit redirects current to the motor for forward or reverse. That said, your motor is wired a bit differently ... on my 1681, the e-unit flips current through the field coild, and the armature (downstream) is grounded to the frame. On your motor, the e-unit flips current throught armature, and the field coil (downstream) is grounded to the frame. However, the concept and functionality of the e-unit is the same between the two. If a finger isn't touching the drum, you'll have an open circuit for one direction, and the motor won't run.










Gently poke those fingers back into place, and there's a good chance you'll be OK.

Regards,

TJ


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> DK,
> 
> Yes, it is possible that the loco will run in only one direction if one of the fingers isn't contacting the drum.
> 
> ...



Thanks again TJ! My wife and I are taking a trip to Newport this upcoming weekend. Are there any good train stores or attractions in the area?

-Dave


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fun time of year to visit Newport.

Train stores? Not really. Check out the real Old Colony RR line, though ... short run along the coast, up the Bay. Leaves from downtown Newport, just across from the Gateway visitor center. they do a Polar Express run this time of year.

Pick up a free guide to Christmas in Newport ... dozens of fun, festive events going on during the month of Dec.

http://www.christmasinnewport.org/

The mansions are surely decorated beautifully for the Christmas season ... always fun to see. Santa will be at the Marble House on Sun.

Also ... "Navy Band Northeast, one of the 53 commands here onboard Naval Station Newport, will be holding their holiday concert this Sunday at 3:30 in Spruance Auditorium. This concert is free & open to anyone with routine base access & their guests...- those without routine access need to call 841-3538 before noon on Friday for access information. "

Enjoy!

TJ


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## DK81 (Nov 25, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> Fun time of year to visit Newport.
> 
> Train stores? Not really. Check out the real Old Colony RR line, though ... short run along the coast, up the Bay. Leaves from downtown Newport, just across from the Gateway visitor center. they do a Polar Express run this time of year.
> 
> ...


Excellent information TJ! This has become my favorite forum on the web and I've only been here 4 weeks! I'm sure we will have a great time in Newport. The Newport Dinner Train (Polar Express) has no available tickets, but we'll take a ride over there to check it out anyway and see if they had any cancellations. Thanks again for all the info, I'll be sure to add any pics that I take of trains. It'd be sweet if one of the mansions had a Christmas layout.


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