# Intro and layout software help



## techCarpenter (Mar 26, 2021)

Hi everyone, my name is Brian.

I'm new to model trains and the forum here. It's been great browsing around and seeing the help people give.

I was looking through a thread on layout software and noticed that all the recommendations are for downloadable software. Are there any web-based options available?

I think it would be nice to access railroad plans online. Does that interest anyone else or is that not necessary for most of your planning stages?

If I need to ask this question in a different forum, please let me know!

Brian


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've never seen a web based option that was attractive to me. I'm all for having the software on my machine, so maybe I'm not the best guy to ask.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I have AnyRail, which is PC-based tool, available via web download. I really don't see the advantage of having a web-based one -- are you envisioning being able to actually edit files made available by others? Limitations of web browsers, file transfer speeds, and graphics processing means that any web-based version would be a poor substitute for what can be done on a local machine. Good ones really need a mouse and keyboard, so mobile devices aren't really an option. 

There are are probably thousands of plans available on line. Model Railroader has a database of all the plans they've ever published. Model Railroad Hobbyist also bas a bunch. We have a few dozen right here on our humble forum. Nothing keeps you from examining these, even without importing them into a design software package.

The issue is that no two individuals have the same tastes, desires and space configuration. Most of us have a preferred brand ot track. And why wouldn't you want one that is unique to you? Many of us use track plans designed by others for inspiration, but our designs are our own.


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## techCarpenter (Mar 26, 2021)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I've never seen a web based option that was attractive to me. I'm all for having the software on my machine, so maybe I'm not the best guy to ask.


Thank you for the feedback @gunrunnerjohn 



CTValleyRR said:


> I have AnyRail, which is PC-based tool, available via web download. I really don't see the advantage of having a web-based one -- are you envisioning being able to actually edit files made available by others? Limitations of web browsers, file transfer speeds, and graphics processing means that any web-based version would be a poor substitute for what can be done on a local machine. Good ones really need a mouse and keyboard, so mobile devices aren't really an option.
> 
> There are are probably thousands of plans available on line. Model Railroader has a database of all the plans they've ever published. Model Railroad Hobbyist also bas a bunch. We have a few dozen right here on our humble forum. Nothing keeps you from examining these, even without importing them into a design software package.
> 
> The issue is that no two individuals have the same tastes, desires and space configuration. Most of us have a preferred brand ot track. And why wouldn't you want one that is unique to you? Many of us use track plans designed by others for inspiration, but our designs are our own.


@CTValleyRR I see what you're saying. I was thinking it'd be cool if you could find layouts others have made and then fork them to make modifications within the same software. You're right though, it likely wouldn't have the graphics capability of other desktop solutions. It would probably just be a 2-D representation. Of course, that wouldn't account for grade changes. Just thinking of a way to easily modify existing plans. I know the brands and track sizes can differ too...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

It's not the 3D graphics, it's the compatibility within browsers and the limited ability of websites and browsers to display common colors, graphic symbols, etc. Personally, I think 3D views are an unnecessary embellishment. AnyRail has one, but I've never bothered to use it. You need to see an overhead view to fully appreciate the flow of a layout.

But really, I would think you'd want to sketch your own, using someone else's ideas as inspiration. It really doesn't take that long to duplicate a different plan, and would you really want to exclude all plans that don't make the same choices you do in terms of track, turnouts, layout space, etc.? Because by the time you've cleaned all that up, you might as well have planned it yourself. So many published plans use junk components like Bachmann EZ Track or Atlas Snap Track anyway. Many more are done using drawing software, so you have to plan them yourself anyway to get a real track plan out of it.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I find the software cumbersome. I'd love one where you tell it what track you're using, like unitrack, and then free draw your design idea and let the software tell you what components you need to make it and what adjustments you might need. I realize that's more complicated to code, but I feel like my lack of knowledge with the track piece and lack of experience hold me back. It takes forever to create a large loop with 50-60 pieces of track. Then you have to back up and try again when It didn't end where you hoped. Annoying. 

I think web based would be fine, if they can make 3d cad software that's web based, I'm sure they can do this too. Might be nice to access it from different computers... something to occupy me on those slow days at work!

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Problem is that you want to have your cake and eat it too. I work in Business Intelligence, and I can tell you that just about anything is possible in the IT world... IF you are willing to devote the time and effort and processing power to the project. And that's the rub. It could be done, but I don't think that it could be done at a price point that would be palatable to enough people to make it a viable business scenario. 

As far as being able to just freehand a design, and have software throw it together for you just isn't a realistic proposition with today's computers. Too many variables and issues to have a small scale application handle it. Seriously, though, if you invest a little time in learning the tool and the track libraries, this isn't a serious limitation. Your lack of knowledge isn't something that can't be overcome with an hour's work. Again, familiarity with the tool is key -- if you let me use flex track, I can have a 10x12 loop of track laid out in about 5 minutes, and because it's flex track, it will line up every time.

If you force me to use sectional track, the mechanics of laying the track to form that loop might take me as long as 10 minutes. Gaining a feel for what pieces you need to use to create a given shape takes some experience, as does correcting a misalignment without using flex track. But here's the thing, it is LESS time consuming and fiddly to work that out in a digital environment (and much less expensive) than it is to do it using real track pieces.

Unfortunately, designing a layout is a skill, and it requires learning and practice to perfect, just like anything else. A computer can make this process easier, but it can't replace a human brain. You just need to be willing to invest the time and effort to learn this skill, too. I'm an experienced user. That didn't come without effort.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I don't know, I think it's doable. I've seen pretty detailed software with kids of variables. We run some pretty heavy software at work that deals with it. It may have to ask you some parameters regarding size adjustments, but it should be key easy for me to draw a circle and have the software spit out a parts list or tell me I need to make it x longer or x shorter to work with kato unitrack. 

I was playing with it, but ran into the 50 piece limit pretty quick (building n scale 30ft long) on the free version of anyrail

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> I don't know, I think it's doable. I've seen pretty detailed software with kids of variables. We run some pretty heavy software at work that deals with it. It may have to ask you some parameters regarding size adjustments, but it should be key easy for me to draw a circle and have the software spit out a parts list or tell me I need to make it x longer or x shorter to work with kato unitrack.
> 
> I was playing with it, but ran into the 50 piece limit pretty quick (building n scale 30ft long) on the free version of anyrail


I am a beginner and did not try other software extensively (unusual for me as a computer geek) but I use SCARM for my track planning software. It doesn't have the capability you are looking for but I find it pretty handy. Their free version does let you place 100 pieces of track or objects, though. I found it useful enough when I was first starting that I did pay for it. My son uses the free version still, and can open a file if I send it to him, but he cannot edit anything once it has more than 100 objects in the file. I do like their ability to give me a list of the part I used in the layout too.

One other feature similar to what you has asked for is that they have a library of layouts on their site that you can download and modify as needed.

I am just suggesting you might take a look at it also. I found it slightly easier to use in laying out track, but anyrail seemed easier to use when rearranging parts of a layout.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I tried SCARM, struggled with it. I need to play with them a lurks abs decide if I want to pay $60

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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> I tried SCARM, struggled with it.


I guess this is the reason for having competing software. I tried SCARM first and found it fairly easy to work with. Then I tried Anyrail and found it a little more cumbersome to me. It can be interesting how different people find different features more important or easier to use, etc.

Either way, I hope you find something that works for you.


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## BigGRacing (Sep 25, 2020)

I know that I tried both as well and then really enjoyed any rail after CTV convinced me to give it a shot. My issue as I have said on both forums is the cost. I think it is way too much and I thank CTValley and Mark VerMerlen for helping me get the entire plan down. With any rail, I can now do different sections as and if I want to. experience with the program definitely helps though with bending the flex track etc.....IronHorseman and others from the other forum also helped me with some great ideas. Now I just have to keep picking up track and roadbed a little at a time and figure out what type of buildings I will finally decide on and their location.....slowly plug away. Luckily there are some brilliant people out here with some great pics and ideas, thanks to everyone here !


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> I don't know, I think it's doable. I've seen pretty detailed software with kids of variables. We run some pretty heavy software at work that deals with it. It may have to ask you some parameters regarding size adjustments, but it should be key easy for me to draw a circle and have the software spit out a parts list or tell me I need to make it x longer or x shorter to work with kato unitrack.
> 
> I was playing with it, but ran into the 50 piece limit pretty quick (building n scale 30ft long) on the free version of anyrail
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Of course it's doable -- with enough time, money, and computer horsepower. And that's where you run into the issue. My company (admittedly a Fortune 100 company with pretty deep pockets) didn't have any problem installing several multi-million dollar software systems, and paying a couple hundred dollars a month for each license.

But as you can see above, model railroaders balk at a $60 price tag. That's where the good idea runs off the rails. Development costs have to stay low for the software to be commercially viable.

Incidentally, SCARM isn't a "them" but a "him", which makes it a risky proposition in my mind. There are also questions of unethical marketing and perhaps copyright infringement. Anyrail has track libraries, user created objects, and layout plans also, as long as you buy the full version. AnyRail's documentation and help is also far superior (which if you're going to learn to use the tool well, is invaluable).

But the takeaway is that learning the tool is the key to using it well (and easily), whichever software you choose.

And as BigG pointed out, even with the 50 piece (or 100 piece, or whatever) limit. It's easy to create the layout in sections in different files, which can be merged by someone with a licensed version. Simply "glue" or "lock" the end points of each section so you don't accidentally move them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I do have to point out that if a $60 purchase of a track planning application is a major hurdle, there may be a major financial issue. That being the case, I would think the price of locomotives, rolling stock, and all the materials to create a decent layout would send you into an apoplectic shock! I tallied up just the price of the lumber, switches and track for my layout, reasonably modest by many measures. Just building the layout (no landscaping yet), and we're already into the rarified air of more than $7,000 in materials! Spring for the track planning program, it really is handy to do paper planning before you start laying track. Trust me, you'll still have to make changes, but at least you can get the basic concepts down and have an idea of what you're going to end up with.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Yeah, it's not really a hurdle so much as me just being a tightwad. I know it isn't a cheap hobby, I kind of enjoy trying to make it more so. 

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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

If that is so, I would pick up a pencil, a rule, and a compass and design your layout as we did 40 years ago.


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## PRR1950 (Oct 26, 2013)

Here is an answer to the question originally posed: www.traxeditor.com

I'm not sure how well it works because I've never tried it, but I just checked and it is still available through a browser. Maybe the original poster was looking for this to use on a tablet?

Chuck


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

PRR1950 said:


> Here is an answer to the question originally posed: www.traxeditor.com
> 
> I'm not sure how well it works because I've never tried it, but I just checked and it is still available through a browser. Maybe the original poster was looking for this to use on a tablet?
> 
> Chuck


And, in fairness, the question wasn't "*good* web-based tool", just a web-based one, so I guess it fits the bill.

That's another one-man show a la SCARM. In fact, if you read the fine print, he licensed SCARM's track libraries. It's long on the marketing and very short on the capabilities right now. I just don't have confidence that any of these "hobby projects" have any real staying power.

And of course, that brings up another problem with any web-based browser -- Ads. Just remember that "free" on the internet means "ad supported". It's impossible to tell what's content and what's advertising on that website. Perhaps an ad blocker would clean things up, but then he wouldn't be getting any ad revenue, so he's likely to start charging for it (which is one place that the creater of SCARM went wrong). And who knows how robust his backbone is behind all that -- especially if he gets a significant user community, it may become unworkable.


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