# Newbie with some questions!!



## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Hey guys, I have a few questions on starting up. I have been looking at some sets to get going for myself and my son, of course one question is to go DC or DCC im leaning towards DCC just due to all of the extras, but is it worth it? Also the DCC sets im looking at are the 

_Bachman Digital Commander Deluxe Set - This digitally controlled train set features: 

· 1 EMD FT locomotive (Santa Fe) 
· 1 EMD GP40 locomotive (Union Pacific) 
· box car 
· open-quad hopper 
· off-center caboose 
· E-Z Command® Control Center with wall pack and plug-in wiring 
· body-mounted E-Z Mate® couplers 
· 47" x 38" oval of Nickel Silver E-Z Track®, including 12 pieces curved track, 1 piece straight track, and 1 terminal rerailer 
· DVD format E-Z Command® instruction video 
· illustrated instruction manual
INCLUDES: (2) Diesel Engines (1) Terminal Rerailer
(3) Freight Cars (1) Hayes Bumper
(12) Curved Track (1) Digital Command Center
(4) Straight Track (1) Power Pack
(1) Manual Left Turnout (1) Under Track Magnet_


or the _Bachmann - Digital Commander Deluxe Train Set - DIESEL UP 
FEATURES: A large 56" x 38" oval track layout (with switch and siding)
of snap-fit E-Z Track® with nickel silver rails on molded
gray roadbed.
The Union Pacific GP40 locomotive has all-wheel drive and is
DCC-equipped with 28/128 speed step decoders that are
compatible with NMRA-compliant DC systems.
The Bachmann® E-Z Command® Digital Command Control System
incorporates the latest digital technology that's easy to use,
with one-button, on-track programming.
* Plug-and-play compatibility with all DC and DCC systems
* 2/128 speed step control
* 100% backwards-compatible with standard DC (non-digital)
With the DCC On Board technology, you can digitally control
the direction, speed, and lighting of multiple locomotives in N,
HO, and On30 Scale.
3 accurately molded freight cars with blackened metal wheels and
prototypical paint schemes:
- 40' Gondola
- 40' Three Dome Tank Car
- 36' Extended Vision Caboose
Locomotive and all cars come equipped with Bachmann's exclusive
E-Z Mate® Mark II Magnetic knuckle couplers with metal coil springs
1 amp AC wall pack power supply and plug-in wiring for the command
control center.
Written and DVD format video instructions.

INCLUDES: (1) Diesel Engines (1) Terminal Rerailer
(3) Freight Cars (1) Hayes Bumper
(12) Curved Track (1) Digital Command Center
(4) Straight Track (1) Power Pack
(1) Manual Left Turnout (1) Under Track Magnet

SPECS: Scale: HO 1:87
Layout: 56" x 38" Oval

Other NMRA-conformant digital control systems will work to
operate in digital command mode.
Locomotive in this set are not sound equipped._

Whats the real difference between these two sets?


Any other ideas would be welcomed, thanks..


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

While I pulled all my chips out and went back to DC for nostalgic reasons as well as financial ones, going DCC from the start is a good idea. With that in mind, the first set offers the best option right up...2 locos DCC controlled as a showcase for the capabilities of DCC. The locos are solid runners and the set is a good start all around. Just be aware that you will start breaking out in a cold sweat the moment you realize you don't have enough track to really let loose with DCC's capabilities:thumbsup:


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Thanks shaygetz, so far I have been leaning towards that set, I just cant figure out why the set with 2 engines is less that the other. Also what would I eventually need to do to add sound, add decoders to the engines or just buy an engine sound equipped? Sorry for the typical questions here, just trying to get it right from the start.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Well if you want to add sound to the engines then you are talking about adding in 50-100 dollars worth of sound decoder, speakers, and tools for the job. You will also need a new DCC controller that can run them which will run at least 200. Then add in the work and headache of it all and you have a DCC and sound equipped engine. If you don't want to tackle installing the sound decoders into the engines in the future I can install them for you at a reasonable price. If you buy a sound equipped engine right from the start it will ussually cost the same as if you added it in your self but saves the hassle and sometimes cost more. I can also add in extra detail parts for you as well like see through radiator fans and am working on getting actual running fans for HO engines figured out as well, just a matter of getting the motors. I also can add working ditch lights, shades, ac units and other locomotive specific details as well.


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## SRV1 (Nov 14, 2010)

o&s_railway said:


> Also what would I eventually need to do to add sound, add decoders to the engines or just buy an engine sound equipped? Sorry for the typical questions here, just trying to get it right from the start.


 No need to apologize. I was just on here asking the same thing a couple months ago. gc53 and other have helped me out with advice. 

I'm in the process of doing an install for a little switcher. It was DCC ready out of the box. Basically plug a chip in and it's ready to go but that set up is still a long ways from sound capability. 

I had to order a whole new circuit board for that specific model, that replaces the old one. It has a capacitor wired to it for extra juice. That was over $80. Then I ordered a speaker and enclosure which was only around $10. I ordered some good LEDs to replace the incandescents that were in it. Another $20 with shipping. Then you just have to have a good work bench, the tools, the time and the will to want to do the install. This one takes a lot of modification but it's a neat project. There's some cutting and soldering involved. 

I've already learned that if you want sound, it's worth it to just buy one that comes already equipped. There isn't much savings doing it yourself. It is a good learning experience though, to get acquainted with the parts.


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

I agree with everyone here. I am going to echo shay's points. If you are interested in DCC, then go DCC from the start. At a minimum, I would buy DCC Ready trains, where all you have to do is plug in a decoder of your choice. If you are going to go with DCC though, I feel you will need more than the 56" X 38" oval. That is just not enough room to run two different trains at once. DCC, in my opinion, requires a larger layout, simply because two or more trains running at once needs space! I would seek space in a garage if I had to in order to get the space necessary. I started with DC, and converted to DCC (the conversion was VERY easy, but I got tired of converting all my DC locos over). I wish I had gone with DCC from the start, but if you stay with a simple oval and only ever run one train, then there is no real need for DCC. 

There are lots of things to "weigh" out. I feel that the more forethought that goes into something, the less chance for mistakes and regrets, and the easier things are down the road. Good luck!

Chad


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

My introduction to sound went thus;

I was visiting a layout when a gentle who owned a nice looking ABBA F unit setup with sound, left it sitting in the yard while he went out for a smoke---*with its bell clanging away*. 45 minutes later, said owner was nowhere to be found and I was looking for a brick to bash the loco to pieces.









No sound for me...

I do have 2 old AHM "Sound of Steam" cars that I lash up to my Athearn C44-9ws whenever sound gets out of hand on the club layout...nothing like the sound of steam tagging along with two modern day techno-toasters to really bring out the spirit of the thing....:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ahh ... the age-old adage ...

If a brick is thrown in a layout room, and there's nobody there to here it, does it actually smash anything to pieces?


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I thought it was "If a man says something in the woods and a woman isn't around, is he still wrong?"


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

I say start with DCC from the get go. But I would consider a better and more versital starter set than the ones you are listing. Yes what I am saying does cost more but the return is much better. The Digitrax Zypher (extra) set is a full command station, can handle 10 (20) locos, handles sound just fine, can be used with other digitrax devices on the Loconet, and can even be used with the more advanced command stations if you upgrade in the future. THe bachmann setup is entry level only and is not expandable, if memory serves me right the top DCC set can only run 2 engines at a time, the one below can run 5 or 10. Bachmann makes some great stuff but you have to get into the Spectrum line to get the really good quality stuff. 

My first engine was an Athearn BB SD40-2 painted in CSX colors, followed shortly by a Bachmann Spectrum B&O 2-8-0 passenger set and it all went down hill from there, I now have like 60+ engines. I started out with the DC transformer that came with the SPectrum kit, and used that with the EZ-Track (I still use it for testing) but I always knew that when the layout was being built that it would be built with DCC in mind. I will never look back. And for sound... well one or 2 engines with sound is not bad but the whole fleet will be just too noisy.

Massey


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## SRV1 (Nov 14, 2010)

Massey said:


> And for sound... well one or 2 engines with sound is not bad but the whole fleet will be just too noisy.
> 
> Massey


 I haven't run into this problem but I've thought about it and totally agree. I would think 2 or 3 with sound would be sufficient to the point where even with those, you might want to turn the sound off eventually. Might get to be too much sound in a small space and become annoying more than anything if given enough time. Which isn't bad at all IMO because it will save a lot of $$.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Many of my TMCC/Legacy locomotives have sound, but you can individually silence or reduce the volume from the remote, so you can customize it to your liking at a given time. I actually love the sound of half a dozen locomotives idling in the yard.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I say go with an NCE systme. I like them better then Digitrax as far as feel and ease of use. If you really want ease of use and enjoyment in control look into ESu systems. The only problem is they will not activate the shutdown sequence and start up sequence because of the stop system used because sadly the Soundtraxx Tsunami does not use functions for start and stop which would make more sense.


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

I really appreciate all of the input it has been very helpful. I think I will look into other sets rather than the sets I listed, I just hope my wife will go for it, and from the comments on sound, especially at this point I may hold off, again thanks for the help. Im sure i'll have more questions soon.


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## little fat buddy (Jan 14, 2011)

why don't you build your own set a decent oval of track a locomotive some freight car's and a dcc system and a decoder for the engine and when budget allow's add onto the loco and track fleet when you can.


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

My problem is that my wife isnt big on me just throwing out money on a nice system, so me and my son have been adding extra change etc. to our "train set fund", we are at the poing where we could get the bachmann and add on from there, we are both impatient and want it now, but i do want to make the right decision. Another model railroader mentioned using flex track, a better dcc system and decoders, so let me get things straight here, if i buy say flex track and a good dcc system will the bachmann engines run on that, or will bachmann engines on run with their ez command?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The bachmann system does not let you expand and will only cost you more money in the long run. Check out the Zephyr system from Digitrax. The standard Zephyr runs on 2 amps which will easily accomidate 3 or 4 non sound engines running full throttle at the same time. It is a throttle and command station all in one. It has full command station abilities so if you get sound engines you will be able to use all the features of that engine (the bachmann set will not allow this and some engines will not have sounds other than the engine running or steam chuffs). You can get the older standard Zephyr system on E-bay for about $150-$200 new and or used. The Zehpyr can handle radio throttles using the loco bus and it can be upgraded with the other Digitrax boosters and command stations as your layout grows. This will be the best buy for the money if you ask me... I know you are not asking but here it is anyway.

Massey


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

No way Massey, any input is greatly appreciated. Ok so I go with the digitrax, i want to get this clear, will bachmann engines work with digitrax or other systems other than their own?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

yea all DCC decoders will work with all DCC command stations. There are a couple of exceptions to this like the MTH engines with the automatic couplers. MTH engines will work with the "standard" DCC functions but the extra functions need the special MTH system to activate.

You will not see any problems running any manufacturers decoders on the Zephyr system.

and a little something that I forgot to mention. Digitrax upgraded the Zephyr system recently to the Zephyr Extra which has a 5 amp out put, and more memory for more addresses. It can run more engines at the same time as well as hold more addresses in memory. The bad thing is the Extra (any digitrax extra system for that matter) has a slightly higher cost.

Massey


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm a digitrax fan all the way. Complete expandability, computer control, and reliability. You could get a DCC engine and run it with a dc supply, it's called being dual mode compatible. Then when the money comes around for a DCC controller it's a simple switch over to that. I don't recommend a used system way to high of a risk, the new Zephyr system has some much needed improvements over the old systems.
I don't think that most starter sets give you a good deal for the money you pay, I did buy a set for my son a few years back and I went with the Walthers unit, I'm not impressed with the quality of the starter bachmann units.


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

The idea of the bachmann is starting to fade away as i look at the other systems, ok another question, sorry for all of the dumb questions by the way, what track system would be best, really as far as ease of use, keeping in mind i will want to run switches/turnouts?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The Zephyr is a starter set but it has features that most mid level sets have and then some. I have bought used stuff in the past and have had no issues with it. Check the listing out and what others have said about the seller. I bought my SuperChief set used as well as the power supply and have been using it for years with no problems. 

Massey


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

in HO scale I have alot of the Bachmann EZtrack and it is pretty good. I use it for testing and I will set up a little layout on the floor for my son to run his Thomas around on. Turnouts are not cheap like the rest of the track is but the stuff is of good quality. My favorite stuff is the Kato Unitrack. The biggest reason why is the rail joiners are also what snaps the track together. If one breaks you just replace it and the track is as good as new. The drawback to the Kato stuff is it costs more, but there are more track options. 

If all else fails you can use sectional track or flex track that does not have premade roadbed and work from there. That takes a little more skill to lay right but you have almost unlimited options for radii and what goes where. THe cost here is the cheapest but takes more time.

Massey


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Price:$508.99






Digitrax Zephyr DCC complete starter set.

Kato HO scale Unitrack WGH snap together track kit #3-103 - Designed to work on a 4' x 8' area.

Kato #37-6511 SD38-2 Union Pacific #Y833 HO scale DCC Sound equipped Diesel Locomotive

Digitrax advanced SDH104K1B+FN41k Combo Sound & Motor FX3 decoder, installed and programmed to the engine road number.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I use all atlas flex track, but if you want quick set up you could either go with atlas true track or bachmann ez track, those tracks can be set up on just about any surface and changed around several times till your happy with it. Just make sure which ever track you go with that the rails are nickel silver and not steel.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

o&s_railway said:


> Price:$508.99
> 
> 
> 
> ...



$500 for the entire thing? That is not a bad deal at all. 

Massey


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I'll second that, The engine in that set is a real smooth runner too! That's pretty much top of the line all the way!:thumbsup:


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Yeah its not a bad deal, but still 500 bux, my wife would kick me out, but at least i would have an awesome setup.

Thanks for the track suggestions, thats one thing i was wondering and now has been answered, basically with dcc you can mix items, bachmann engines with any dcc system and whatever track i feel is best. now im getting somewhere. its going to be a long ight of research, thankfully the irish red brews are good and cold.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

i own several Kato engines both old and newer and they are the smoothest and most powerful engines in my collection. I truely wish that Kato still made HO scale engines, or would get back into HO stuff. Did you know that Atlas used to use Kato drives in some of their older models?

Massey


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

I did not know that, at this very minute i am looking into atlas dcc items, their control pops up on every site i see, the atlas commander, seems a bit better than the bachmann, but not as good as the digitrax.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Buying that all outside of the package deal there and all of it new not off E-bay would be closer to $700. I think she would rather you spend $500 and save $200.

Keep putting coins in that jar. I do, I have a coffee can that used to hold 3lbs of coffee and at the end of the day I put my loose change in it and when it is full it is more than 3lbs but it is worth over $300.

Massey


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

It is a little better but still not one that will be able to grow with your layout. The only ones that can really grow with you, and still be useful in the future is NCE and Digitrax. I think that Digitrax did their homework a little better and made a much more expandable and more intuitive system.

Massey


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I've worked or owned all three systems. The digitrax did get it right all the way around. I have a Super Chief 8 amp with several 8 amp boosters and radio throttles and computer interface. I started with one piece, and then built it all up over time!


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Whats the difference in the Zephyr DCS 50 and DCS 51?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The DCS50 was the older 2.5 amp set and the DCS51 is the newer extra setup with the 3 amp output and the bigger memory. 

Massey


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Im looking at the Zephyr dcs 50 or 51, in looking I have come across the MRC #1408 Prodigy Express DCC System and the Digitrax Chief which is at 67 bux new, but on ebay, will probably go a lot higher.. Thoughts on these systems?


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Or an NCE Powercab starter set?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I would stay with the DCS51 or the Super Chief, next best bet would be the NCE Powercab. but IMHO avoid the MRC #1408 Prodigy Express, I've hear they have a lot of operational issues, and they are not expandable.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

^ what he said. NCE makes a nice system but if you look at the future expandability Digitrax has more options and their system just seems a little better thought out. I have used the NCE system and it is nice but I prefer my Digitrax setup. 

The Super Chief is a good choice too but it will usually cost more than a Zephyr system. The Super Empire Builder set is a limited command station which cannot read back CVs and it does not have the ability to set up a programming track. I would not advise this set as your main/first set. I bought this as my starter set and was very unhappy about a month later when I found out I could not do the things I wanted. It was $50 more than the Zephyr and $75 less than the Super Chief. I thought I had a deal... I was wrong. Go with a SC or Zephyr set for best results.

Massey


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## waltr (Aug 15, 2011)

I have the Zephyr with a UT2 throttle. This works well and does everything I have needed. This gives direct control of two engines (two Cabs). When I need to expand the layout any of the other boosters can be easily added.


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

OK, I think what im going to do is buy a good dc like the athearn iron horse set with ez track for expansion, plus i will have 1 non dcc loco, buy the zephyr dcc system and a dcc engine with a few extra freight cars, as time goes by add more track to the layout more engines etc.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I would caution you that running a DC loco on a DCC system is hard on the DC loco and somewhat hard on the DCC system too!
Just a better idea to avoid it.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The good thing about a non DCC engine is that you can usually upgrade them for a fraction of the price of buying one DCC equipped. Most new DC locos are already DCC ready. The only ones I know that are not are the bottom of the basement cheapos that you would trust to your 5 yr old.

Massey


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

So newer model sets like Atlas, Bachmann or Athearn sets should have their dc loco dcc ready. Nice, thats my plan then.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Conversions to DCC on newer engines are usually very easy to do.
And fairly cheap too!


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

DC vs. DCC: The Age Old Question!


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## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

I have it so I can run both on my layout, but I really never use DC anymore. Once I tried DCC, I was hooked. I have nothing against DC, and would not want to offend anyone who prefers it, but in my opinion...and my opinion only...DCC is more fun. I really don't feel that cost is much of an issue anymore. A lot of DCC equipment has come down in price in recent years.

Chad


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## o&s_railway (Aug 15, 2010)

Yeah my plan is DCC all the way, but im going to get a dc set to have starter track and a loco, but i will make sure the loco is plug and play ready for dcc, buy a dcc control system and locos. Actually from looking at the locos, buying dc locos that are plug and play ready with a decoder seems a little better than some dcc equiped loco's.


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## waltr (Aug 15, 2011)

With a DCC ready loco you then have a choice of decoders including ones with sound from several makers. All my newer loco's were DCC ready.


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