# Buying new moderen steamer



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Sometime in June thinking of buy a new modern steamer. What is a good decent one to get will spend around 300 to 500.00 birthday in June that's why waiting were to get one don't know alot about the new ones have read about some best place to find is here from u guys thanks .
Al


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I recommend you look for a FlyerChief Berkshire. Mopac has one. They will run conventional, with their own remote or with an iPhone App. There is also a FlyerChief Northern but they are hard to find.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

My thought is I agree with Tom. I did buy a FlyerChief berkshire. In fact, I liked it so
much I bought another. Great smoke, great sounding whistle, great slow speed, and
I am very happy with the first one. I have not run the second one yet. Check them out
at Charles Ro.com. They can be controlled by an Android phone also. I did a video
of my first one showing it smoking and running. If I can find it I will show it here.
Berkshires are a beautiful locomotive.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Al, I found my video on youtube. Now if I can post it here.

MVI 0846 - YouTube


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

LOL, it even talks to you. Good sounds. Buy plenty of smoke fluid.
It really is a lot of locomotive for the money. And if you want to spend
more, they have the Legacy version. That gets you legacy control, 2
figures in the cab, and more LEDs. Very nice but I do not have a
Legacy control system. The FlyerChief version is fine for me.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

That's a nice engine, LOTS of smoke, and runs great....My only question is what were you having for lunch??? I keep hearing a spoon or fork hitting a plate,lol!!!


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

That is so cool. If u don't mine u don't have to how much.
Al


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Went on line at charles ro. Looked at them what does *np and *pere Marquette. Mean


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

AL, NP means it is lettered for Northern Pacific RailRoad. Pierre Marquet means Loco is lettered for Pierre Marquet RailRoad.

I paid 289.99 for mine. I also watch ebay and they are more there. I have seen used ones
that seller wants 339.00 for. I think 269,00 or 289.00 will be the least you will find. I have a
Pere Marquet and a Nickel Plate Road. I think shipping was only 10.00. Might be higher
now.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

In FlyerChief I purchased an Erie Berksire. When the Legacy versions were released I bought an Erie and a Nickle Plate. The Legacy engines are more detailed, larger set of sounds, 200 speed steps, and cost a lot more. Only worth buying the Legacy version if you run your layout using the Legacy control system.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Ok I was on charles ro prices not bad they are only about two hours away from meso road trip. Lol thanks guys appreciate the advice. And guidance u guys are the best.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I recently purchased my new Legacy Pacific from Ro. Great place to buy from plus excellent pricing. Al, you are headed down a slippery slope purchasing new command control engines!


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Just like to have one.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Al, I said that also. I now have 2. Tom might be right. LOL.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Lol you are probably right.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Al, anything you save on shipping by doing a road trip you will spend on sales tax
and gasoline. Probably will cost you more. Charles RO loses money on shipping.
These FlyerChief steamers come in a pretty big box. I do not pay sales tax on online
purchases. I do not know about your state. If you go to Ro you wll pay sales tax.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Year true plus the price of gas. Not sure if I pay sales tax for online stuff but it might be true. I will pay shipping. Thanks
Al


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Al, here is a review I found on the Lionel FlyerChief Berkshire steamer. It shows the engine better
than my video. I agree with everything said in this video. My only complaint with the engine is with
the chuff sounds. At slower speeds it sounds great, but as you speed the engine up, you get to a point
that the chuff starts to sound like a machine gun. So you will find yourself running at a slower speed
than maybe your old Gilbert steamers. Not that big of deal. Its just what I noticed. Also the video mentions
whitewall wheels. Not all the engines get the whitewalls. I have 2 of these engines and only one has the whitewalls.
It depends on the road name. There is very little to not like on these engines. I doubt these wll last 70 years
like our Gilbert ones.


Lionel American Flyer FlyerChief 2-8-4 NKP Berkshire - Bing video


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Ok. Thanks you are right they won't last that long but in the last year I been thinking of getting one or maybe 2 haven't even bought one and thinking of 2.lol


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is a well made video. It reminded me of another difference between the FlyerChief and Legacy versions. The FlyerChief has 2 chuffs/revolution, just like the Gilbert steam engines. The 2 chuff versions sound ok at higher speeds. The Legacy versions with 4 chuffs/revolution, same as real engines, sound great at very low speeds and tend to act as a mental speed limiter. I run my Legacy engines between 20 and 50SMPH, unlike Gilbert engines that never run as low as 50SMPH.
Not sure if everyone noticed that the layout was built with GarGraves flex track and Gilbert turnouts. The flex track made for a nicely operating track system with smooth curves and natural easements.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

That is an awesome video thanks.
Al


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> Al, here is a review I found on the Lionel FlyerChief Berkshire steamer. It shows the engine better
> than my video. I agree with everything said in this video. My only complaint with the engine is with
> the chuff sounds. At slower speeds it sounds great, but as you speed the engine up, you get to a point
> that the chuff starts to sound like a machine gun. So you will find yourself running at a slower speed
> ...


What's the product # for the engine?


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Does the engine come with the remote, or is that separate, and what powers the engine?


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The product number depends on which roadname and number you want. For example, the Pere Marquette is available in two road numbers. 44022 is #1225 and 44023 is #1223. Yes, the engine includes its own remote. It will also run conventional without the remote. It will also run from the LionChieff App on a cell phone and it has Bluetooth.


----------



## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Mopac that Berkshire looks good. Did you have to find a dealer that sells smoke fluid by the gallon? 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I buy mine in 8oz bottles and use 2/year. I like smoke if I didn’t already say that.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyer said:


> The product number depends on which roadname and number you want. For example, the Pere Marquette is available in two road numbers. 44022 is #1225 and 44023 is #1223. Yes, the engine includes its own remote. It will also run conventional without the remote. It will also run from the LionChieff App on a cell phone and it has Bluetooth.


I'll let my buddy know, thanks for the info...


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

As Tom said the remote is included with the locomotive. No matter how you control the engine, you need an AC transformer hooked up to the track and at about half throttle or a little more. I like running the engine with my phone. With the Lionel app and my phone I have more features than with just the remote.
its a neat setup. The learning curve is easy.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I found the coupler would not fire at 12.5V, otherwise the engine ran fine. I kept the track voltage at 14V for 100% reliable operation. I had the version 1 of the Berk. Maybe the version 2 has other differences beside the sound sets and BT.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have not tried the coupler yet. I have not pulled any cars yet. As shown in the review video
the engine will pull plenty of cars. Has traction tires.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

When you begin using the engines regularly I think you will find the couplers are the first to stop working as the voltage is lowered. At 12.5V the couplers would not fire. At 13.5V they fired about 90% of the time and that 10% no response rate was annoying. At 14V everything works 100% of the time. I was looking for a lower voltage because of all the cars with incandescent bulbs on the layout.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

I love my #1225 Berk, if only I could get a trailing truck axle bearing for it.... ridiculous.
Mr. Gilbert would not be happy about current "American Flyer" customer service.
Yep, I did a separate post about this.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Welcome to the MTF! I replied in your other post.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Welcome to the forum.


I have a 1225 Berk also. One heck of an engine. I also have a 765 Berk.
What happened to the trailing truck.

I don't call these American Flyers. They are Lionel. I am not fond of most
Lionel S scale engines. The FlyerChiefs are an exception.


Pere Marquette 1225 and Nickel Plate Road 765 run side by side - YouTube 

Here are the prototypes


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

That is a cool video.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Any difference with the 44021 and the 44022 flyer cheif Berkshire at Charles ro one is 20.00 more. Thanks
Al


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

44020 NP and 44023 Pere Marquette are each $289.99. 44021 NP and 44022 Pere Marquette are each $269.99. They were all $369.99 in the 2020 AF catalog. The only difference is the cab number. Perhaps there is more stock left of the numbers that are $20 less expensive.


----------



## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Still haven't sprung for the Berks from Charles Ro. No real reason. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Kenny, I must have purchased your allocation. I bought one FC Berk, two Legacy Berks and three of the new Legacy Light Pacifics. I still have one of the new releases of the Y3 on order.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

mopac said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> 
> I have a 1225 Berk also. One heck of an engine. I also have a 765 Berk.
> ...


Yes, these are definitely Chionel products. Old man Gilbert would not approve.
I figured at $250 for a loco, 3 cars, power pack, and track, it was a deal.
I need to put another $20 into getting the rear axle back in, but hey...
This is my first S size locomotive. I'll post more once she is rolling.

Chionel was absolutely no help, they told me I had to buy a complete trailing truck, then told me its not available.
I found the bearing number, myself, but its out of stock.

So, I'll buy a pilot truck, and harvest the parts. More on my 1225 Berk later.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

There is a long history of complaints about Lionel quality, mostly by O gaugers. In the Lionel S gauge world there have been far fewer product issues. The Polar Express sets have one issue in 100% of the passenger cars. The wiring is too stiff, too short and not actually soldered to the truck pickup. With use, the wires pull loose and the car lighting does not work. The fix is well documented and requires nothing from Lionel. No other passenger cars have this problem. The issue with the Polar Express engine missing axle bearings seems related to when they were manufactured. Some are ok, some are not.
Another issue, design related, affects the second release of the Legacy SD70ACe diesels. The truck design was modified from the first release and the new trucks have axle springs that are too small of a gauge to pass current reliably. Carl Tuveson came up with a fix to replace the Lionel springs with thicker American Models springs. Carl modified two of my engines, this mostly solved the issue but not quite 100%. Looking at the trucks I decided to pack the spring pocket with a silver conductive grease. This must be done with great care because the insulators are less than 1mm thick and it is easy to bridge the insulators with the conductive grease creating a permanent short circuit. I did this to all of my new SD70's and they now run perfect.
All Lionel AF freight and passenger cars made prior to 2019 have wheel sets gauged 1/10" too narrow. If they are used on Gilbert track they run perfect. To use them on track with crossings and scale wing rails they must be regauged. Its easy, get a pair of snap ring pliers to spread the wheels until a dime just fits between them. With practice it takes about 10 seconds/axle. Beginning in 2019 the wheels are all correctly gauged.
The most pervasive repair issue in S gauge is the poor quality fan driven smoke units. With some operating time at least 50% have fan failures, about 10% have heater failures. The replacement is not hard and replacement units are readily available. The motors and electronics seem very reliable. Stock up on traction tires, seems like every week I need to replace a tire on one of my engines. I have about 50 TMCC/Legacy engines and pull long trains up grades which puts more stress on the rubber tires. Fortunately replacing the tires is easy.
The only issue with American Models engines is cracking gears in the gear towers on their diesels. The replacements are readily available but rebuilding the gear tower is tricky.
All said and considering the complexity of the modern engines, I feel the product is in good shape when delivered.
Buy a couple 5 digit Gilbert engines with the two position reverse units or any knuckle coupler diesel and it will be apparent Gilbert had more design and quality issues than the modern Lionel engines.


----------



## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Great UTube. Reminds me of the trains my dad set up when I was a kid. And here I am doing N Scale. No smoke from my Kato Mikado.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

This is the video that sold me on the AF Berkshire.
I got the whole set delivered for $250, but mine needs a little bit of work, stay tuned.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That engine needs more smoke fluid. The right way to initially fill it is 25 drops, let is soak in for 5 minutes, run it for 5 minutes then add 10 more drops. It will put out clouds of smoke. Any time it sits overnight or longer add 10 drops before running it. It will need more smoke fluid after 20 minutes of running, never let the wick get dry.
It is impressive how well the engine and cars track on that highly irregular track that is not fastened down.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

Mobile device remote demo.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Lionel did a good job designing that app. I have it on a couple of older iPhones I keep in the train room. Works good, just like the video.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

AmFlyer said:


> Lionel did a good job designing that app. I have it on a couple of older iPhones I keep in the train room. Works good, just like the video.


They have also made the app interface with their Universal Remote.
So now, you can use the app to control the older RF only units.
In other words, if the Universal Remote can run the engine, then the app will run that same engine through the Universal Remote, in hot spot mode. Very cool wizardry.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The new Legacy Base3 will also run FlyerChief engines using a Cab2, or an iPhone or iPad paired with the Base3. This is a significant Legacy advancement, for the first time Legacy/TMCC and FlyerChief engines can be operated with the same remote. Lionel will be releasing a new Cab3 app as well.
It is nice that Lionel is bringing all their control systems into a common environment.


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Nice set and a heck of a deal at 250.00. Cheapest I saw was 350.00. Thats less than you can buy a Berk for now.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

Here is the real 1225 Berkshire
“Polar Express”
Quite a story, and Lionel got the
sounds pretty close.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

You can buy that engine in S gauge.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

AmFlyer said:


> You can buy that engine in S gauge.


I did


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I did not know you had both the Polar Express engine and the Pere Marquette 1225 engine.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

DrawsOnCad said:


> This is the video that sold me on the AF Berkshire.
> I got the whole set delivered for $250, but mine needs a little bit of work, stay tuned.


Well, I got the axle bushing issue sorted. I noticed some loose screws, so decided to check every screw, none of them were tight. I also had to fix one of the cars, the truck sides were loose, so the axles had lots of play. Less than good quality control. I got it all sorted, and the engine runs great, smokes like a chimney, and the LionChief app is absolutely brilliant. Precision control, adjustable momentum etc.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)




----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Great job getting it running perfectly. I am surprised at all the factory assembly problems on that engine. The FlyerChief engines usually are correct right out of the box.


----------



## DrawsOnCad (8 mo ago)

Here is a video. I also have a noisy smoke generator, that I have seen posted several places, its a dry fan motor bushing. I’ll address that later.








AF Berkshire 1225 PE







youtube.com


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Looks good. Unfortunately squealing smoke unit fans are common. A drop of oil will fix it, it might return in the future.


----------

