# New to the Forum



## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

Hello - I'm new to the forum. I have an American Flyer Train set from when I was a kid. I got it out the other day and the transformer is toast (I checked it with my multimeter). 

The transformer model is 22033 and has 16 volt AC output. What options are there for a replacement? Do any of the manufacturers offer a newer product that would work with these trains?

Thanks for any help on which way to go.

Mako825


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Hello Marko and welcome to the train forum. Yes, you need a better transformer.
Hope you get some suggestions. You mentioned a newer one. I would suggest
a Lionel CW 80. Its a transformer that comes in most Lionel sets now. I use all
Lionel transformers for my trains. Now a word of caution. Gilbert trains are rated
for a MAX of 15 or 16 volts. Most Lionel transformers have more output than that.
That just means don't run Gilbert engines at full throttle. You have a multimeter,
mark a spot on a Lionel transformer that you don't want to go past. I run my trains
at slower speeds so not a problem for me. If you do Ebay check prices on a CW 80.
I have one and it is a good transformer. It came in a set. Gilbert has not made a 
transformer in many years so no choice for a newer one from them. One more word
of caution. Be very careful. Messing with these trains is very addictive. Never hesitate
to ask questions here. Someone will help you. Have fun.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Welcome to the Model Train Forum!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

A few words about transformers. The train set you have will run with any transformer or DC power pack that is rated at 50W (50VA if a DC power pack) or more and at least 12V max and not more than 18V max. Some new transformers output 21V max, they can be used but follow Mopacs advice above. Assuming you will add some additional engines and accessories buy one rated for at least 100W. An original Gilbert 4B or 8B is a good choice. They are readily available, not expensive, and the only maintenance item is the power cord. For what you are running the internal circuit breaker condition does not matter. Transformers like the 15B, 17B, 19B and 30B are neat and more powerful but come with maintenance headaches because of the rollers under the rotating turrets.
New transformers will cost more and in my experience are not as reliable as the original Gilbert transformers. I use only new transformers but I spent a lot to buy them and have experienced a 10% failure rate in the first two years. I use them because I operate modern engines with sensitive electronics that require advanced protection circuitry.


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

mopac said:


> Hello Marko and welcome to the train forum. Yes, you need a better transformer.
> Hope you get some suggestions. You mentioned a newer one. I would suggest
> a Lionel CW 80. Its a transformer that comes in most Lionel sets now. I use all
> Lionel transformers for my trains. Now a word of caution. Gilbert trains are rated
> ...


Thanks for info - this is very helpful. I'll check it out


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> A few words about transformers. The train set you have will run with any transformer or DC power pack that is rated at 50W (50VA if a DC power pack) or more and at least 12V max and not more than 18V max. Some new transformers output 21V max, they can be used but follow Mopacs advice above. Assuming you will add some additional engines and accessories buy one rated for at least 100W. An original Gilbert 4B or 8B is a good choice. They are readily available, not expensive, and the only maintenance item is the power cord. For what you are running the internal circuit breaker condition does not matter. Transformers like the 15B, 17B, 19B and 30B are neat and more powerful but come with maintenance headaches because of the rollers under the rotating turrets.
> New transformers will cost more and in my experience are not as reliable as the original Gilbert transformers. I use only new transformers but I spent a lot to buy them and have experienced a 10% failure rate in the first two years. I use them because I operate modern engines with sensitive electronics that require advanced protection circuitry.


Thanks AmFlyer - I've definitely found the right forum! I liked mopac's suggestion to buy a newer Lionel transformer. I'm sure this would work well, but I found them to be a little pricey. I then saw your post and followed your advice and looked on eBay at the Gilbert 4B and 8Bs. I ended up buying an 8B that was tested and serviced with a new cord. Something about that 8B and the lights stays in keeping with the old train set look. I probably won't expand my set, I just want to get it running - so this will suit me just fine.

I was really young when I got this set. I think it was through a promotion where I sent in Post cereal box-tops and $10. That's when $10 was a lot of money to a 5 or 6 years old. The set came in a regular brown cardboard box with AC Gilbert stamped on it in black letters - not the fancy display boxes with the cut-outs for the cars and the locomotive. 

Thanks again for the welcome and the solid advice. 

Marko


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I think you will be pleased with the 8B, hard to beat the value for the price.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Welcome..Can't add anything to the wonderful advice you already have received.


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

welcome same here this is a great forum lots of info


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

Thinking ahead..... is there a preferred type of wire to connect the transformer to the terminal track? I know insulated wire comes in different gauges and can also be stranded vs solid, etc... 

Thanks!
Marko


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Stranded wire is best for the smaller sized layout you are planning. Larger wire is always better but for a smaller layout with one or two trains 18 gauge is more than adequate. When I build one of my holiday layouts, typically 6'x10' , I use automobile primary wire sold in rolls at local auto parts chain stores. I buy 16 and 18 gauge in multiple colors to keep the wiring organized. The cost is low for a few spools of 18ga wire.
The challenge you will face is carefully cleaning all the Pikemaster track and connecting pins. I see a lot of corrosion on that terminal track section. Pikemaster track was ok when new but 50 years later it may not work so well.


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> Stranded wire is best for the smaller sized layout you are planning. Larger wire is always better but for a smaller layout with one or two trains 18 gauge is more than adequate. When I build one of my holiday layouts, typically 6'x10' , I use automobile primary wire sold in rolls at local auto parts chain stores. I buy 16 and 18 gauge in multiple colors to keep the wiring organized. The cost is low for a few spools of 18ga wire.
> The challenge you will face is carefully cleaning all the Pikemaster track and connecting pins. I see a lot of corrosion on that terminal track section. Pikemaster track was ok when new but 50 years later it may not work so well.


Thanks AmFlyer - Good advice! I have some 16 gauge stranded wire in different colors for my car restoration project. So I cut a length of black and white wire. Stripped one end of each and tinned them for the track. When I get the transformer, I'll probably add a ring terminal to each that fits the posts. I did buy some NOS track connectors off of eBay. They arrived and are clean and shiny with no oxidation. 

As for the copper terminal track connectors on the track itself - is there an easy or best way to clean those up? 









Marko


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Spade terminals are easier to work with since you will not have to remove the terminal screw to attach the wire terminal.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It has been a while since I handled Pikemaster accessory track pieces but I recall the fahnstalk clips being brass. Just try a bit of contact cleaner spray and insert the wires, they should make contact.
When I add terminals (which is not often on temporary layouts) to the wire I use spade lugs rather than ring tongue terminals. It is easier to wire and there should be no vibration or outside forces on your layout that would compromise the spade lugs.
The top of the rail needs to cleaned and the Pikemaster rail coating is so thin it is easy to cut right through it, Try about a 200 grit sandpaper, but not too hard. I have not had any success with just contact cleaner or the HO style rail erasers in getting off the corrosion. I only used Pikemaster once as part of an All Aboard display.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Marko68, let me add my "welcome" to the rest of the guys'. I got nothing to add since mopac and Tom have covered most everything. I will reinforce what Tom said about the 8b transformer. Nice unit and not expensive. Mopac's idea with the Lionel CW 80 is also good.

Kenny


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

More great advice. I didn't have any spade-style connectors, but I did have some good hook-style crimp connectors. So, I used them instead of the ring-style.

So, now plan on gently cleaning the track. 

AmFlyer - you identified the track as a Pikemaster rail - Is that the trade or brand name that this set has and goes by in the trade? Just wanted to make sure I'm using the correct terminology.

Thanks again all!

Marko


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Gilbert introduced PikeMaster track in 1961 as a lower cost alternative to the standard Gilbert track. It has a smaller curve radius and was used on the All-Aboard panels as well as packaged in sets. Your train will run on any brand or style of S gauge track made for high rail trains. Many Gilbert engines will not run on PikeMaster track because of the smaller curve radius.
The 21165 engine was used in a total of 35 cataloged and uncataloged sets. If you have the original set box, post the 5 digit set number and the three or four letter code stamped on the set box. It should look something like this below.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

One more thing. All the Gilbert catalogs are online at myflyertrains.net. You can open the 1961 catalog to see the introductory listing for the "new" PikeMaster track. 
The four letters on the set box I posted above identify it as packed in the Gilbert factory for shipment in October (AJ) 1961 (FA).


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> One more thing. All the Gilbert catalogs are online at myflyertrains.net. You can open the 1961 catalog to see the introductory listing for the "new" PikeMaster track.
> The four letters on the set box I posted above identify it as packed in the Gilbert factory for shipment in October (AJ) 1961 (FA).



Tom - More good info. I did locate the letters / numbers on my box: AJFE set # 20763 + Engine # 21165
I also checked out the catalogs on your website (which is really cool!) and can see that the set I have was named the "Casey Jones". I'm not sure how to translate when exactly it was packed for shipment but am guessing AJ = October and if FA = 1961, then FE = 1965 ? 












Marko


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

AJFE translates to October, 1965 when the set was packaged and shipped. Yours also has the specific day stamped underneath as October 21st. The 20763 set was cataloged in 1963 and 1964 and also made but not cataloged in 1965. Your late 1965 set has three variations from the catalog descriptions. First it has the Erie rather than the Burlington tender; second the 24125 Bethlehem steel gondola was included in place of the 24124 Boston and Maine gondola; third, a 22033 25W All Aboard set transformer was substituted for the correct 35W 22006 transformer. These types of substitutions were common to use up available inventory late in the production cycle. Gilbert went out of business about 18 months after your set was made. 
Your 24058 boxcar is the less common variation stamped Post Cereals rather than the more common Post Cereal. Since you have the original set box and I assume the cardboard inserts, the set is worth about $100 today. It has some value to collectors because it has "provenance", you are the original owner and can affirm the contents are as packed from the factory. That makes the variations documented originals.
I hope you get it running soon with the replacement transformer.


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

Tom - That is so very interesting. Thank you for that detail. I've printed this out along with the pages in the catalog you shared in the link. I'm going to put these papers with the set.

I did clean the rails today. 

I also found videos on cleaning and lubing the engine and tender wheels. Seems there are different opinions on how best to do that and what cleaners and lubricants to use. 

Marko


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Cleaning and lubrication of modern Lionel Legacy engines is important and must be done correctly. A lot is written about that. The post-war Gilbert engine you own is not particular, just clean any old, hardened grease off of the gears and spray the commutator drum with contact cleaner. Put some light grease on the gears and some light oil on the drive axles and other indicated wear spots. If it runs ok you are done. 
Sometimes the wheel gauge of the cars can be wrong. To check, use a dime. If the dime just fits between the backs of the wheels the gauge is correct.


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)

The transformer I purchased on eBay arrived a day early. I tested it with my multimeter and it works fine. The seller serviced it and replaced the cord. I hooked it up the the set and it works great. I am very pleased 



























Marko


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Looks great. That was the way to go. Glad you are happy with it.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Great! Good to hear the set is now running.


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## Marko68 (Jun 29, 2021)




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