# Help me not make another O-gauge mistake



## TomW2034 (Jun 2, 2015)

The other day, I decided my Lionel Railway would be more fun if it had 31" radius curves instead of the original 27" curves I grew up with. To that end, eight sections of Lionel O-31 curved track were ordered & received.









Apparently, I was asleep at the throttle while navigating threads about track gauge differences some months back because the new O-31 curves are not immediately compatible with my railway's existing O-27 straight sections. Although I know I could make it work, my currrent preference is to purchase new straight track.

My understanding is that Lionel's O-31 track dimensions are in line with "true O-gauge". In other words, another vendor's product should connect to it.

Here's the rub: My life is much easier if purchases are under $100. Enough genuine, Lionel, O-31, straight track is $132 plus shipping.

Menard's is offering a Case of 24 30" Straight O Gauge Tubular Track for $69.99 plus shipping (purchasing by the piece rings up just over the limit).

The mistake I do not want to make is buying incompatible track. It appears that Menard's offering is just what I need. Am I missing something?

Other than used stuff on eBay, does anyone have other suggestions for straight track to accommodate the new Lionel curved sections?

Thanks,
Tom


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Menard's track appears to be O gauge and compatible with your 031 curves. Back in the day Lionel sold O gauge and 027. O27 had a lower profile both in rail height and tie height plus it used smaller diameter pins. Over the years other manufacturers made track directly compatible with 027 but with wider diameters. You can get special track pins with two diameters that will allow you to mate your 031 with 027 if you wanted. Many here use both types of track together as well as with track made by others that doesn't look anything like the original Lionel track. Gargraves for instance has pins that will allow it to mate with Lionel tubular track.

Pete


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I'm a little confused with you saying you have 027 curves, that you want to increase the radius to 31. Do you have existing 027 track now, or do you have 0 track. They are not compatible at all, without a lot of grief. The 027 track stands 7/16" tall; the 0 track stands 11/16" tall. The track pins don't mate either, 027 pins are 3/32"; 0 track pins are 7/64". When dealing with the Postwar tubular track the ties look different also. 027 ties are flat all the way around, where the 0 track ties have a curled lip along the long edges. 

Take a piece of your original track, lay it down next to you new stuff, and compare the heights.


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## TomW2034 (Jun 2, 2015)

teledoc said:


> I'm a little confused with you saying you have 027 curves, that you want to increase the radius to 31. Do you have existing 027 track now, ...


I have O-27 curves and O-27 track right now.

Tom


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I know nothing about their track but it should work as this is what they list,
Includes 24 30" straight track
Taller, more durable than O-27 rails
Black ties
1-1/2" wide (rail to rail)
2-1/4" wide (tie to tie)

That is a good price, but like I said I have none of their track.

I have Lionel O tube track mated to o/27 track, you just have to shim up underneath and get some transition pins.
Or better yet just get some nails and make up your own transition pins.

But that track (as advertised) should work with your new O/31 curves.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Origin of 027 track*

Tom, I have to jump back in here and give you the origin of 027 track, of when and why. The 027 track was adapted from Lionel, after they acquired Ives (bankruptcy), along with American Flyer. Lionel was known for a better quality train, but saw a potential in bringing some of the Ives designs into the market. Lionel decided to take the Ives designed track, which was lower profile, and make an inexpensive line of trains. In 1930/31 created a subsidiary company, the Winner Toy Co., that would not be confused with the Lionel name. The Winner Line was the start of 027 track, which later became Lionel-Ives, then Lionel Jr. The track was made of thinner gauge steel from the earlier produced 0 track. The common trait of both tracks was the distance from rail to rail which became 1 1/4", and that standard still exists for all 0 gauge. The rail height and the track pins are not the same. 

If you decide to try and mix the two, you have to shim up the 027 to the same height of 0, adapt the pin difference when mating the two, and it could get more complicated when adding switches. That is where you have to make a decision of what to do. Get all new track at 0 gauge, struggle with mating 0 and 027??? I know that there are track pins available to mate both tracks, (don't know the part number??), but one problem that you have to overcome is GOOD track continuity ELECTRICALLY. You want to make the connections as good as you possibly can, to eliminate voltage drops in sections. Can you accomplish that with mixing and matching the tracks, is up to you, as to how well you put it together. Decision Time for you!!!!


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

teledoc said:


> but one problem that you have to overcome is GOOD track continuity ELECTRICALLY. You want to make the connections as good as you possibly can, to eliminate voltage drops in sections. Can you accomplish that with mixing and matching the tracks, is up to you, as to how well you put it together. Decision Time for you!!!!


Remember, your connections never get better, they will only get worse. this is why we preach plenty of drops. I even solder jumpers from section to section in the harder to reach places.
ie. tunnels, behind scenery, thru woods.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

To tell you the truth I have added an O track section with three O/72 switches and then a run of about 25' down the wall to the other side.
Where I mated the O to the o/27 I used o/27 pins and did not squeeze the O tubes to make them super tight, just enough to snug them up. All the run down the wall was done quickly and nothing is really tight (yet) or clean. 
I will eventually make up some transition pins and tighten and clean the run down the wall when I am sure this is where I want the track.

But even in the quick setup and with nothing really set or tight I have no power problems that everyone is preaching about?
Maybe because of my ZW?:dunno:

My trains run good on what I have and it is not really setup the right way now, am I just lucky?

One thing I would recommend that if you do mate the 2 sizes together try not to do it at a switch. Also try to mate on a straight section instead of a curve.
It can be done but I would try to mate on the straights instead.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2016)

If it were me, I would go with the Menard's deal. Fewer issues down the road (or track ).


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> If it were me, I would go with the Menard's deal. Fewer issues down the road (or track ).


?? What are the issues with non-menard's track? 

Tom W - No matter what brand of O gauge track you use, and to the best of my knowledge they are all compatible (Lionel, K-Line, RMT, Menard's, maybe some others I'm forgetting), you should invest in Lionel Track Pliers. Worth their weight in gold if you have a tube track layout. Loose track pins have been a common complaint with the Menard's track, track pliers can really come in handy.

Pete


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

You are not the first to be confused between O and O27 track. I have simple advise. Gradually retire your O27 and switch to O. Your layout will thank you for it.

Menards has 11% off rebate sales from time to time. Less I forget, they will even send me an email reminding me the 11% off applies to trains too!


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

Model train stuff has awesome prices on o gauge tube track. 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/O-Scale-Lionel-O-Tubular-Track-s/2023.htm


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## phillyreading (Aug 25, 2015)

I use both 027 and 031 track but never on the same run of track. I put 027 inside the 031 track layout. Another thing to do if you still want to use your 027 track but with larger curves is to go with Gargraves track and adapter pins. Gargraves curves start at 032 and go up to over 100 in diameter.
Lee Fritz


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## TomW2034 (Jun 2, 2015)

*I'm Happy, but*



Passenger Train Collector said:


> If it were me, I would go with the Menard's deal. Fewer issues down the road (or track ).


I ended up purchasing Menard's new offering to connect my new Lionel, O31 curves to my ceiling train layout. 

Although I am very happy with my new, non-27-inch-radius-corner layout, my implementation of Menard's track needs more than just track pliers to keep the freight on schedule.

Their track sections have inconsistent heights.

The image below shows two sections of the new Menard's track meeting. Due to my poor photography skills, it may not be immediately obvious that the RH tie was stamped lower than the LH tie. The flex in the short tie is due to the mounting screw attempting to take the "bump" out of 2055's path.






​
But, considering the big picture, I could happily purchase more track from them.

Tom


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## TomW2034 (Jun 2, 2015)

*You were right*



Texas Pete said:


> ...no matter what brand of O gauge track you use, and to the best of my knowledge they are all compatible (Lionel, K-Line, RMT, Menard's, maybe some others I'm forgetting), you should invest in Lionel Track Pliers. Worth their weight in gold if you have a tube track layout. Loose track pins have been a common complaint with the Menard's track, track pliers can really come in handy...


Thanks for the link, Pete.

At first I thought I had dodged that bullet. But I just now ordered that tool after tiring of wiggling screwed-down track sections.

Tom


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom, Just looking at the single photo you posted, the right side track looks like the cross tie is flattened out more than the one to its left piece. That may be one of your glitches, with the slight bump from one piece to the next. It might be worth a look!! The track pliers are worth it, but you can either use needle nose pliers, or "dikes", and go in from the end of the rail, and squeeze toward the top of the rail, and gradually go deeper into the rail, while squeezing. It's your choice as the method to the satisfactory end result.


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## TomW2034 (Jun 2, 2015)

teledoc said:


> .. right side track looks like the cross tie is flattened out more than the one to its left piece. ....


You are correct - It is now.

But it was not on Day One.

My point was that the ties are not of a consistent height. That particular union is NOW not a problem.

Tom


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## TomW2034 (Jun 2, 2015)

*A new phase for the T&K*

My new track pliers arrived today from Olsens's in OH. The product was exactly what I was expecting.

After less than a minute of smushing the rails of one quadrant of my 53' of track, my new 0-31 track curves & straightaways have been appreciated by my 2034, 2055, 2029, and Thomas at a wonderfully constant speed.

Although I hate to lose my O-27 stuff for nostalgia's sake hwell:, everything I own appears to enjoy the shiny track & bigger curves. 

I was not expecting to get so emotionally attached. 

Tom


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

You will get over it, no matter how sentimental it is. We tell our kids (46 &50 yr. olds), just put it in your "Baby Book", for later. LOL


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## Waddy (Dec 18, 2014)

I just finished adding a loop using the Menards track; since it is so cheap. It fit both the Lionel and K Line O gauge I already have so I am sure it will fit whatever O31 you bought. It works with the switches and so far no glitches.

The Menards track is built way tough, but it's finish isn't as "smooth" as some track brands, but it works just fine. I weather everything, especially track, so the Menards fits the bill perfectly.

Rather than use clip-on for electrical supply, I suggest you solder the electrical leads directly to tubular track, (underneath), and have a solder lead about every three feet.

One of my grandsons is asking for a 4X8 layout at his house, and I will definitely be using the Menards track when I build it. He will probably walk on the track, and the Menards can take some serious abuse. 

Waddy


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