# Train Master Project



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Finished the FP7A/F7B now onto this Train Master. Progress so far:


----------



## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Very nice job. :appl:


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Dano, what are you up too now?!?!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> Dano, what are you up too now?!?!


Hey there! I am trying to replicate one of the four or five Train Masters that were built for the CPR with the extra steam generators behind the cab. I have started with the old Lionel and am tricking it out to more resemble the CPR version and add some detail along the way. They were run long hood forward.
Cab end:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dano, I have an old Legacy Train Master shell that you can have if you want it. The handrails were wrecked on this one, and I was making them until I found out I could get a new shell from Lionel.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Thank you John, PM to you.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It was easier than I thought to generate postage for Canada this time, all done on-line.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I use the on-line method all the time. Pretty painless once you get used to it.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Last time I tried to send something to Canada using the USPS, I couldn't get the on-line to work, this time it seemed almost painless. Maybe they're actually making progress with shipping.

I was floored by the difference in price, what can explain going from less than $4 to over $15 for a 12 oz package? Someone's making a lot of bread on shipping between the US and Canada! Talk about abandoning NAFTA is overblown, there's no _free trade_ now!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The difference is shipping within Canada. I can ship a parcel to Detroit for virtually the same cost as to Windsor, just across the river in Ontario.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It always amazes me, is there any cheaper method to ship something like that in Canada? The cheapest I found on the USPS site was First Class package.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

If it is small and heavy they charge by weight, large and light then by size. There is no cheap shipping in Canada! I can offer free shipping to Canada and the USA because of the like costs if I keep my shipments under a kilogram. The real killer is the 70 cent dollar!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I thought of folding the Train Master shell in half to keep it under the 12" limit, but I thought that would probably be a problem!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Hah hah! John you could have probably cut it in two and it would not have mattered.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Now you tell me!


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Lol, can't wait to see what you do to it!


----------



## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Great thread fleshed out by two of my favorite modeling icons -GRJohn and Dano. I spent part of an afternoon last year at Dano's hobby shop in Sechelt, a one-ferry ride and then short drive on the beautiful B.C. coast. Dano's not only a serious scale modeler and builder, he's a gracious host. Not long after we visited him, his store was closing out, so it's great to read his posts and see his work flow still as captivating as ever. 

When GRJohn's Lionel Wabash FM was first advertised a few years ago, I plunked down the money, but after nearly a year's wait, I got frustrated and bought something else. Too bad, as I always thought the motorized rotating fans were a big feature, but apparently not that many others agree. Anyway, John, without a doubt your FM shell gift to Dano will translate well. Incidentally, I saw three original CP FM Trainmasters - one working in Lethbridge, Alberta in 1961 and two others lashed up in Moose Jaw, Saskatoon about 1966. 

My newer Williams by Bachmann CP Trainmaster may receive at least a truer paint job if not alterations a la Dano - I'm not anywhere near that kind of skill...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I bought my Wabash Train Master from someone knowing that it has wrecked handrails. I thought I could fix them, and I was well on my way to building the railings when I found out from Mike Reagan that Lionel has a shelf with "scrap" shells. I asked him to pick the best looking one, and I got one that looks great. It didn't have the hatch or grill, but I just moved them from the old shell. I just went for the path of least resistance.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

A shot of the shell that John generously gave me alongside the one that I have been working on. It will in all likely hood be donating parts to the other Williams shell that I have. The louvers rotate open and closed and the ventilation grills are stamped out of metal (I think) and are beauts.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm glad that you can use some of the stuff from the shell, it seemed too nice to just toss. 

Might be able to use those nice windows from the Lionel shell too. Too bad I had to take the motor and grill for the fans for my new shell, they rotate when you have the motor installed.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I think I can trim the windows to fit, one pane open, need to locate a crew from the stock-pile! The 'fans' look to me to be actually part of the structure with the actual fans underneath, so I don't think they should rotate anyhow, at any rate the housing is for a different model of Train Master than what I am replicating. By the way John, you did some meticulous soldering on those hand rails!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was trying to duplicate what they did for the originals, but then I got to the front and rear and all the little supports were broken, that's when I decided that the new shell made more sense.

I don't remember the crew, I guess my new shell didn't come with them and they had to work in the new environment.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

With the size of those motors I may have to go with a silhouette.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can usually get a guy into the cab, even if you have to slice him in half.  I have a Train Master that I just put a cab side across the extended cab and then put the figure in with a little bulb above on each side. That Wabash Legacy model had very nice detailing, that's one of the reasons I liked it. Later models from Lionel have started to omit some of the separately applied details, my new Legacy Reading Train Master doesn't have all of the nice detailing that the Wabash does.

Here's a couple of interior shots and the wiring diagram of a Williams Train Master that I did for a customer. He was all about the lights, so we went whole-hog on them. 

This upgrade got red/green directional markers. a real MARS light, Rule-17 lighting, automatic cab light control, etc.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Cool, John. I may change the bulb to an LED because of heat issues but that is my limit of practicing the dark art of electronics! I am using an old Lionel chassis with the big heavy motors for this project and there is not much room to play with. I have not checked underneath the other though, it may be all Williams with can motors but the shell looks to be a Lionel clone.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Usually the Train Master locomotives have lots of room to play, they're a big roomy shell. Now, try doing something like that in an RS-3 or the like...


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Got a little work done today, added some clutter underneath.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I have finished mounting the pilots and redoing the stairs. The couplers are attached to the frame although I may have been able to leave the rear one on the truck but for some reason I got it into my head to change it. The front one is a dummy. I had to hog out quite a bit of the rear pilot to make it all work but when running it is not really noticeable.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like you got to use the louvers from the Lionel shell, looks like they fit right in.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Looks like you got to use the louvers from the Lionel shell, looks like they fit right in.


John, those louvers I made and installed before I got the shell from you. I have not started cutting up that shell yet, it will probably be dedicated to another rendition. I have a Williams frame with can motors that I will most likely put it on.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the louvers look great, how did you manage to make them moveable? If they're not moveable, they sure look like it.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The slats are just glued about 1/3 open.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice detail work, that's for sure!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I hope to put your shell to work rendering this loco. It will be different dimensions but they won't be on the track at the same time!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Why are they different dimensions?


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

The Williams shell is a clone of the early Lionel, made to fit the frame with the old large frame motors. The new shell could be made more in scale because of the smaller can motors. It is shorter and has a narrower body but wider across the walkways. The details are also finer, a good thing.


----------



## ebtnut (Mar 9, 2017)

See my pic posted in Lots of Steam - SP Trainmaster in San Francisco commuter service.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting Dan, I have an old Williams Penn Central Train Master shell here, I was going to paint it, but that project got sidetracked several years ago and I ended up selling the Williams engine, so now I have an extra shell.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I also have another shell but now I want to try using the one that I got from you. It should take less modding time!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

ebtnut said:


> See my pic posted in Lots of Steam - SP Trainmaster in San Francisco commuter service.


Train Masters came in many guises permutations!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Bit of an up-date. Still a ways to go but she is starting to resemble the intended outcome.


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Looking good. The trainmaster was such a good looking loco. Simple lines, very purposeful. 

Great job.


----------



## Guest (Aug 29, 2017)

Excellent progress, Dano. You did a really fine job with the paint.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks good, keep those updates coming.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks guys. I am sourcing some wire for the handrails etc.


----------



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

It shaping up really nice.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

While doing some test runs I found that because of the roller spacing on the Train Master there is a dead spot when rolling through the diamond! I will have to make a tethered car to help it on the figure eight portion. I am concurrently working on a FM C-liner CPA-16-5. I am combining two systems here and it didn't really work out so I had to turn some wider wheels (from old Alco loco) for the front truck. Swapped out a PA truck for the rear. The scale wheels were set too wide apart and setting them closer did not leave much tire on the rail because they are much narrower. Without switches it would have been fine.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Scale wheels don't really work with most 3-rail switches, at least my experience with Tubular, Fastrack, Atlas, and Gargraves switches leads me to believe that.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I could make them work fine on Super O but only by narrowing the gap of the guard rails. Then normal wheels wouldn't run through. The best solution is just to re-wheel them. I just got some Atlas F7s and they have over-size wheels compared to the ones on the Rivarossi FM. I have to convert them to 3-rail before I can test them out though. The Atlas may not be as easy to convert but I have some Williams and Lionel F units just waiting for the knife!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

In case you are wondering, I like the fact that the pilots are fixed on the 2-rail bodies so I don't have mod them.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dano said:


> In case you are wondering, I like the fact that the pilots are fixed on the 2-rail bodies so I don't have mod them.


But you have to yank wheels and the like, so it's sort of a Catch-22.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> But you have to yank wheels and the like, so it's sort of a Catch-22.


Yeah but there are the grills and other stuff as well, the Atlas shells are better detailed and tinkering with the trucks is relaxing by comparison!


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

While mulling over the Train Master I took the CPA-16-5 as far as I am going to. Hauling some mixed freight while waiting for her passenger train to be completed.


----------



## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Beautiful engine, Dano.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Great job, nice work.


----------



## Guest (Sep 11, 2017)

Excellent work.


----------



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Yes, well done.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Thank you all.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I have finally finished the Train Master, almost. I'm trying to add smoke and I've gotten a unit wired and have to figure out the mounting.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Great looking locomotive. Does that train get through that S curve without any trouble?


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Some build pics. There were some compromises to aid in the rendition.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's some nice detailing there Dano! :thumbsup:

As long as you didn't locate the electronics under the stack, you should be able to get a smoke unit in there.

What electronics are you driving it with? Is this conventional or command?

The MTH diesel smoke unit can be attached to the frame and extends to the shell pretty well. The trick will be getting a shell funnel that mates with the smoke unit. You might look at some of the Lionel Trainmasters, they probably still have funnels available on the parts site.


----------



## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Beautiful job, Dano.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I took a smoke unit and stack from a SD70. It fit in without too much jiggery pokery. The mounting bolsters had to be shortened 1mm and a couple of holes drilled in the frame. I am running this totally Old School. I had to move the e-unit to the other end. I tried to upload a vid but from my phone, not happening!
As always, thank you for any and all comments.🙂


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Sorry about the pic, don't know what happened there!


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Dano, lol. Ive been away drom the fourm.for so long, and this thread is still live! Looks perfect! Good to see closure on a project! Or almost. !


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I turned your smoke right side up, looks better that way.  Curse those iPhones.


----------



## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I turned your smoke right side up, looks better that way.  Curse those iPhones.


Thank you, John. It was right way around in the preview.🤢


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

This seems to happen a lot with iPhones, apparently the picture orientation flags aren't properly done, that's all I can think of.

All I do to correct them is to view them with my image viewer and rotate the image until it's right side up and save it. That fixes them 100%, so clearly something is amiss when the image is generated, even though it appears to be correct.


----------

