# Building Layouts - Does it Ever End?



## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Howdy All, in this greatest hobby in the world, does it ever end when it comes to building our layouts? I mean, does anyone on here have a layout that they built & kept more than a few years? It seems they get old quick, or at least they do for me. What about you?

I've been building & dismantling layouts since I started in this hobby at the ripe age of 10 & now being 60, I have lost count of how many layouts I've built & taken down only to rebuild another. Now it's understandable when/if we have to move but, for those of you who have been in the same place for decades, have you ever dismantled your layout just to build another because you got bored with the previous layout?

Before I retired, I relocated around this great nation because of the field I worked in so my layouts where always being dismantled & rebuilt later elsewhere. But, since I retired & have lived where I do now (which I'll be here until the good Lord calls me home), in the last ten years anyway I have dismantled & rebuilt a new layout at least five times now. It seems I'm never happy with my layout once I think it's finished so, I tear it down only to build another. I'm now back at my new layout I started back in December of last year & I'm hoping this is it? Does it ever end? Is anyone ever happy with the same layout without changes? I've never been able to do that & I've yet been able to figure out why, lol.

How about y'all? How many layouts have you built & dismantled just because you got bored with the previous layout??? Thanks in advance, Bo.


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

I haven't got to the point where I'm building layouts and then taking them down because of boredom yet 
More to the point I took down my first layout because it turned out to be a "learning layout." I don't think you ever stop learning and gaining experience and knowledge, techniques, etc. in this hobby, and it really became an albatross in the space of maybe 3 years. I _thought_ I knew what I was doing and what I wanted - WRONG!
Second and current layout is much better, using materials and techniques I want to continue with - but now I've outgrown it. But, no - I don't want to tear it down. Rather I'm planning out a way to incorporate it into the next one. That said, it has been a learning layout too - so there will be a few sections redone (again), including some trackwork that used to be "good enough", but no longer is.
Honestly to me the fun is in the building, so my layout will never truly be finished!
Question - did you ever consider upgrading a current layout instead of starting all over from scratch? In other words, happy with a concept but not the execution?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It does actually end, they probably speak about the last improvement you made in your Eulogy.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

In a few words: no.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

JNXT 7707 said:


> I haven't got to the point where I'm building layouts and then taking them down because of boredom yet
> More to the point I took down my first layout because it turned out to be a "learning layout." I don't think you ever stop learning and gaining experience and knowledge, techniques, etc. in this hobby, and it really became an albatross in the space of maybe 3 years. I _thought_ I knew what I was doing and what I wanted - WRONG!
> Second and current layout is much better, using materials and techniques I want to continue with - but now I've outgrown it. But, no - I don't want to tear it down. Rather I'm planning out a way to incorporate it into the next one. That said, it has been a learning layout too - so there will be a few sections redone (again), including some trackwork that used to be "good enough", but no longer is.
> Honestly to me the fun is in the building, so my layout will never truly be finished!
> Question - did you ever consider upgrading a current layout instead of starting all over from scratch? In other words, happy with a concept but not the execution?


Yes, I have done several upgrades throughout the years without totally dismantling all the way. I would say in the fifty years I've been playing with these trains, I have completely dismantled a dozen times, 6 times was because of relocating & the others was bored with the layout design. 

For some strange reason I've ALWAYS had issues with turnouts so I've kept them pretty simple throughout the years because of that. You'll see another thread I started about turnouts. Either I can't get power thru the switch or, I have issues with derailments at the switches. I've tried just about every brand turnout on the market & they just haven't worked for me so... I must be doing something wrong there?

I think many times I keep dismantling & rebuilding because I was never really happy with the design of my layouts. I love the construction part, the execution but, I guess the concepts have all been wrong? I don't quit though & keep plugging along!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Turnouts*

Bo;
Given your medical issues, I don't know how feasible this is for you. All the turnouts on my layout are scratch built at my work bench. Originally, i did this because the type of turnout I wanted was not commercially available at the time. Since then I have built many, including Wye turnouts, curved turnouts and all-rail crossings, as well as your normal left or right turnout. In the process, I found out that one can build a better turnout than can be bought. 
Also they are much cheaper. (about $2-3$ for the material per each turnout). The big downside is time. It takes me about a week of spare time to make ONE turnout. Making your own is perceived by some as a near impossible task, bordering on magic. In reality, it's actually quite easy; especially after the first one. 
Only suggesting this alternative because you say you have problems with all your commercially made turnouts. I don't know why that should be so; since so many modelers use them successfully. 

Just another way to go, should you want to.

Best of luck on your recovery!

Traction Fan


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

Traction Fan,

Got any pictures of your home-made turnouts?


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

traction fan said:


> Bo;
> Given your medical issues, I don't know how feasible this is for you. All the turnouts on my layout are scratch built at my work bench. Originally, i did this because the type of turnout I wanted was not commercially available at the time. Since then I have built many, including Wye turnouts, curved turnouts and all-rail crossings, as well as your normal left or right turnout. In the process, I found out that one can build a better turnout than can be bought.
> Also they are much cheaper. (about $2-3$ for the material per each turnout). The big downside is time. It takes me about a week of spare time to make ONE turnout. Making your own is perceived by some as a near impossible task, bordering on magic. In reality, it's actually quite easy; especially after the first one.
> Only suggesting this alternative because you say you have problems with all your commercially made turnouts. I don't know why that should be so; since so many modelers use them successfully.
> ...


Howdy pard, yeah my current medical status would definitely prevent me from constructing my own turnouts but I have thought about that in the past, just never had the time back then.

I think I've learned a valuable lesson today when it comes to my layouts that I obviously was doing wrong? My neighbor came over today to assist me in setting up a work are so I could spend an entire day messing with my turnouts. I have one of those 3'x8' folding tables like you see at these train shows or convention halls, etc. So, I had him set that up for me, then I had him place an old glass door (I had from one of those old entertainment centers that use to have the glass doors to keep the dust down) on the table top because that makes for an excellent work bench. The glass door is that smoked glass about 1/4" thick with the nice smooth edges & it's roughly 20" W x 36" L & makes a great work surface!

The first thing I noticed when I set 8 of the turnouts on the bench all but one did not sit flat on the surface? They were all bowed on the bottom of the plastic ties & the 8th one was twisted, also not sitting flat on the bench. Well, this is definitely a problem. It seems that I may have caused the ties to bow from tightening the screws too much to hold the track down causing the plastic rails to bow. Well, that would cause the rails to bow-in which would explain the derailments! I've always been a stickler for my track being well mounted & it seems I may have gone overboard on my turnouts?

You see, I don't just use the tiny factory holes in the plastic ties to pound those tiny nails in, rather I've always used tiny screws & drilling more holes in the plastic ties to make sure my track was perfectly mounted flat. I put a screw like every 6" on the flex-track & plenty on turnouts, crossings, etc. Looks like I may have been over-doing it a bit, lol.

Now the power issues? I think I misunderstood long ago on how to wire those because I've always soldered wires to every rail on the turnout & I think that was my problem? Tonight I soldered wiring only to the outside rails & one wire just past the plastic frog on each inner rail & they are working beautifully now. But, this is with 4 NEW turnouts that I hadn't used before that were still new in the box. I think I have finally figured out what I've been doing wrong all these years & I feel like a complete putz!

I have 4 NOS turnouts along with 8 sections of flex-track mounted to this folding table with double-sided tape to hold everything perfectly flat & well attached. Using gator-clip wiring for DC & DCC both, I ran 4 DC locomotives with a few pieces of rolling stock, then I did the same with 4 DCC locomotives w/rolling stock & not one single problem! I was so tickled that I became angry at myself for being so stupid all these years with over-doing it on mounting my turnouts & improper wiring. The fix was so easy I feel like a complete fool.

Now, if I can get this to work on the layout, I will be so ecstatic I might have to take a Valium to calm myself, lol. Thanks everyone for all your input & encouragement or I probably would never have pursued this & just done without turnouts. Now I feel like a serious model railroader who finally knows what he's doing??? ;-)


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Turnout photos*

MTRR75;

I'll see if I can get some pictures for you. As I am not good with any and all things digital, it will be awhile. I do have some digital images of parts of my layout. I'll consult with my "digital adviser" (wife) this evening. 

Texas high railer;

I hear you about the medical prob. making scratch building out of the question for you. It was a long shot to start with. I agree with the others that you should be able to fix and use what you already have. Sounds like you're off to a good start; checking them at the bench, one at a time.
You mentioned a NMRA gauge. Great tool, but they do wear out. Is yours also 25 years old? If you know for certain, that it was new and correct when it went into a box; then it should still be OK. A new gauge every now and then is a worthwhile purchase. As valuable as the gauge itself, is the direction sheet that comes with it. This sheet shows all the measurements the gauge can perform and a good many relate directly to turnouts. Of course one can and should check that all the wheels on every car and loco are correctly gauged. If some are not, they will most likely derail; at the turnouts.
Another test that may help you is to mount a pair of trucks to a "flat car" made of a piece of clear plastic. As you roll it very slowly through a turnout; you will be able to look right through it and see where the wheel goes off the rail. You can do a similar test from the side, using any car. Point a small flashlight at the side of the turnout and slowly push a car through. Again, you should be able to identify the particular trouble spot.(s) 
Mark that place on the rail's side with a felt tip. Then go back over that spot with your gauge and your experience. You should be able to find and correct the problem.
Are some locos or cars, "picking the points" and trying to take the straight route through a turnout when it's set for the curved(diverging) route? One of the many nice features of Peco turnouts is the notch cut into the stock rail (big rail) where the point (thin rail) can fit into the notch and not let the wheels "pick the points." You can add this feature to any turnout by filing your own notch with a small needle file. 

Good Luck;

Traction Fan


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> Yes, I have done several upgrades throughout the years without totally dismantling all the way. I would say in the fifty years I've been playing with these trains, I have completely dismantled a dozen times, 6 times was because of relocating & the others was bored with the layout design.
> 
> For some strange reason I've ALWAYS had issues with turnouts so I've kept them pretty simple throughout the years because of that. You'll see another thread I started about turnouts. Either I can't get power thru the switch or, I have issues with derailments at the switches. I've tried just about every brand turnout on the market & they just haven't worked for me so... I must be doing something wrong there?
> 
> I think many times I keep dismantling & rebuilding because I was never really happy with the design of my layouts. I love the construction part, the execution but, I guess the concepts have all been wrong? I don't quit though & keep plugging along!


Hi-railer, maybe that's where you get the most satisfaction - in building layouts from scratch, seeing how different layouts work out. Nothing wrong with that if that's where your enjoyment of the hobby lies. 
Or...maybe you _are_ still searching for that perfect layout. With all those years of experience, what worked best for you? What turned you off in the shortest time? 
And maybe your troubles with the turnouts are aggravating the situation - I know when something is not working with my trackwork, I'm eventually going to tear it out. 

I get a lot of satisfaction myself building a layout, but I get more from running trains and fiddling with old locomotives and rolling stock. So I hope that my next layout will be the last. But I know it will never be _finished_.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Oh I definitely enjoy starting from scratch but at my age one would think I had enough of that? ;-) Now that I think I have a handle on these turnouts after all these years of doing it wrong, I may just have that ultimate layout I've been wanting!

Right before my stroke I had started an entirely new layout where the surface will now be at my eye level, which is something I've noticed in recent years with some of the younger fellows doing & I thought that would be cool. All of my previous layouts were between 30" in height to 45" in height on hills & mountains where I sat in a nice office chair running my trains & I think that's what got old for me? Since starting the new layout (in December I think) with a height of 60" where I can actually watch trains go by, now that has me all excited. The only problem since the stroke is, before I was on a ladder laying track & foundations for my structures & I don't dare stand on a ladder now. So, finishing up this new layout is really going to be a challenge no doubt!

Here's a few shots of the new layout that I took the other night but, please don't expect a lot because everything came to a screeching halt when I had the stroke. You'll see it before I placed new temporary track to test run my new 2-10-2 BLI steam loco.

Well, it looks like I can't insert any images? It says to give a photo URL & I don't do my photos that way, sorry.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Hey! Whatta ya know... it actually worked! OK folks, that is this old cowboy preacher about eight years ago on a western film set where they were shooting a documentary for the History Channel. No, I don't play cowboy actor anymore since my late wife's passing because that was our thing. I'm sure y'all can appreciate that.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

OK, lets see if this works as well? Those images are from an old Photobucket account I thought was closed? I transferred 5 recent train room pics so let's see if I can post them here like I did the two western shots? No promises???


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Hey, I here you. My first and only layout was built a few years ago, o scale. I was so happy that I posted its finished, boy was I wrong. Now it sits, awaiting an expansion that I dont have time for. Its a great layout, and fun. As I dont have the switch problem s ho guys do, I can tell ya overtightin g is not good. When setting my track I did this at first , it tweaks the track and adds a inward /or outward slope. I back my screws out a bit, just making them snug. Some curves I did purposely slant them in a bit so not to throw the train over the edge, like a NASCAR track but on a smaller scale. The new layout is looking good. I have every confidence that youll finish it. Then rip it down . Then finish it......


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

No - it's NEVER done. I've been through a couple already and plan on tearing everything I have out and starting over as I now have a much larger room to work with (since finishing my basement over the winter.) 

Main reason I keep rebuilding is until you build it and run it, you can't really tell WHAT you're going to like/dislike about a layout. On paper it looks great, but then once you start to use it you realize the mistakes you made in your planning.

The next one..........hmmm........


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm thinking this is going to be my last layout for sure so, I'm going to take my time & draw it all up first like I use to do years ago, then I'll lay all the track, turnouts, structures, roadways, rivers, bridges, etc. and if it looks good, then I will permanently mount & wire everything up! I want to spend time now running trains instead of the construction all the time. I want a somewhat finished product but, something that can be added onto later should I choose? 

I've got plans for this layout to have two mainlines running the perimeter of the entire room with an add-on island later which will house the train yard, station, freight storage, etc. That's where I'll get into all the turnouts, crossovers & a custom trucking company I built a while back.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

To be perfectly honest, I would love to gut the guesthouse here on my property & build that into my new private train club but, I think that's far too big a project now since the stroke? Now, if I recover enough to feel I could take that project on... well, it just might have to be done! The guesthouse is 996 square feet & if gutted would make for an excellent train room, would it not? I can picture it in my mind & have for quite some time now! ;-)


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Any local train clubs in the area Hi-railer? You never know - they may be willing and able to give you a hand. Nothing saying you gotta do it solo.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

sstlaure said:


> Any local train clubs in the area Hi-railer? You never know - they may be willing and able to give you a hand. Nothing saying you gotta do it solo.


Yes, there is ONE club here that I checked into last summer & when they found out I was a preacher, I got the cold shoulder by several so I never bothered going back. I can handle the folks but, I hate to make folks feel uncomfortable so... I thought it best to just not return.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> Yes, there is ONE club here that I checked into last summer & when they found out I was a preacher, I got the cold shoulder by several so I never bothered going back. I can handle the folks but, I hate to make folks feel uncomfortable so... I thought it best to just not return.


Don't judge the whole club by a couple idiots. I'm not a particularly religious person, but have no problems with anyone who is. To each his own. I've found those that are the most "bristly" are usually those uncomfortable with their own views and may not want to hear anything that could cause them to doubt themselves. Their discomfort is exactly that - theirs to own. 

I'll admit - I've run into some people that were REALLY pushy with their religious views (telling me I was going to go to hell, etc.) and I just told them that their views are exactly that - their own, and to please keep it to themselves unless I asked for their opinion, which I hadn't. 

As long as the focus is on trains - I don't see any reason for them to have an issue....of course - everyone doesn't feel the way that I do - nor do they have to. 

Wish I was closer to you - I'd have no problems coming over and lending a hand....Preacher or not


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Scott,

Rest assured I never judge anyone, as that is a serious "no-no" in the business of Christianity. I think you may have misunderstood what I was attempting to convey in my post. Here's how it went down in hopes of bring a better light to what I was attempting to say?

My first visit to the local train club was rather uneventful, as there were only three members there that evening & they were all working on landscaping on a recent addition. I introduced myself & asked a few questions about the club & in return one of the members asked me a few questions which I had no issues with.

When they asked what I did for a living I informed them that I was retired with tons of time on my hands. One remarked that surely I didn't spend ALL of my time just model railroading & I informed them that I was a pastor & that I did quite a bit of volunteer time at both hospitals & a few nursing homes to visit with those who needed or wanted comforted in faith issues. I do not practice as a church preacher & other than the hospital visits & nursing home visits, I'm almost completely retired from that. And, I never go around telling folks they're going to go to Hell, as that would run someone off faster than anything I could think of. As a matter of fact, very seldom do I even bring it up unless someone asks or the subject matter comes up.

Anyway, two weeks later I had gone back down to the train club because I saw quite a few cars in the parking lot & sure enough, there were around a dozen or so in the club that evening. I had spoken with a few & things were going along no problems, then one fellow came over to me & asked; "Aren't you that cowboy preacher we all heard about"? I thought that was an odd question just out of the blue like that & also the fact that he stated they ALL heard about me was rather interesting I thought. Why would everyone in the club hear about me in such a short time? Well, I answered his query with a yes & turned to ask one fellow about a nice locomotive & all of a sudden about 5 or 6 walked off like I had the plague or something?

As the evening progressed I noticed several would avoid me which one could clearly see the situation was making everyone else feel uncomfortable (I was fine) so, rather than spoil their evening I simply excused myself saying I had to get home & I left. A few days later I had run into one of them from that evening at our local Walmart which I acknowledged & I asked when their next big meeting was. He told me they had decided to blow the next couple of weeks off because it was summer & folks had other things to do & he explained they don't meet as often in the summer months. Well, that made sense to me so, I thanked him & said I would talk to him later.

That weekend I went by the club (it's in the old train station on the main drag into town) on my way to town & I saw the parking lot was full & I thought that odd because of what I was told a few days earlier. The following Saturday evening I'm going by there with a friend & the parking lot was pretty full that night as well so, I took that to mean I wasn't welcome there so I simply never returned. If that's judging folks I'm sorry you feel that way however, I simply did not wish to cause issues within their ranks so I simply stayed away, plain & simple. I went there to talk model railroading not to preach to anyone.

If we lived closer you would be most welcome to come by & trust me when I say... you would not be made to feel uncomfortable nor would you be preached at. If folks ask, I oblige them otherwise, I don't hassle folks because one never wins folks over on any subject when one shoves it on an individual or group.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Didn't say you got preachy at all Hi-railer. Sorry to hear they treated you that way. Sounds like you're better off without them. Unfortunately some people are just like that - not much you can do. Hope this start to come along with the layout.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

sstlaure said:


> Didn't say you got preachy at all Hi-railer. Sorry to hear they treated you that way. Sounds like you're better off without them. Unfortunately some people are just like that - not much you can do. Hope this start to come along with the layout.


No worries my friend, it's all good. I was not offended & I just thought I would explain a little more in detail. Funny thing is, I ran into a few of them right after the first of this year & not one of them asked where I had been or why I hadn't been back? That too clinched it for me so, I do my own thing then one day I found this forum & all is good! ;-)


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