# Mike Reagan - next stop



## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

At least one of us knows this already but on the other forum it's been announced today that MR is joining the staff of TrainWorx to head up an "Eastern Division" which it appears will include a focus on Lionel train repairs.

There's a press release that I won't copy here but you can look at it there if you wish.

It's good to know Mike is back in the model train (and layout) business.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Good Luck to MIKE in his new endeavor.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

I just listened to the latest on Mike and TW Trainworx on Notch 6. Very good 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Well didn't we know that he would land on his feet.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Sounds like an interesting new direction for TW. I wonder if they will become a major player in train repairs.

Bill


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Very interested n the repair angle.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Mike is way too talented to be happy doing repairs. We'll see where this goes.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

Jeff T said:


> Mike is way too talented to be happy doing repairs. We'll see where this goes.


I know that the math is impossible, but I agree with Jeff 10,000%.:appl:


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Jeff T said:


> Mike is way too talented to be happy doing repairs. We'll see where this goes.


I think that really depends on what their intention is for their business. They could set up a Lionel Service Station and he would run the operation but hire and train a staff to do the actual repairs. 

Someone posted on another forum that Lionel was not accepting any warranty repairs until this October but I don't think that was ever confirmed. But I do know that they have lost a number of Service Stations over the past few years and have not held any training sessions or replaced them.

The Lionel techs are the only ones authorized to do warranty work on Legacy engines but they might make an exception for Trainworks and MR.

So, it should be interesting to see how this all plays out.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2017)

My take is Mike's primary focus will be to foster a new repair service for them. Let's face it, that is his expertise.

Nothing wrong with diversification in what may be a shrinking market otherwise. *The important consideration will be the affordability of the new service option.* Most O-Gauge folks are very cost conscious. I believe that will be the determining factor as to whatever this new offering will be successful or not, and the long term status of Mike there.

Good luck to Mike in his new position.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

TJSmith said:


> I think that really depends on what their intention is for their business. They could set up a Lionel Service Station and he would run the operation but hire and train a staff to do the actual repairs.
> 
> Someone posted on another forum that Lionel was not accepting any warranty repairs until this October but I don't think that was ever confirmed. But I do know that they have lost a number of Service Stations over the past few years and have not held any training sessions or replaced them.
> 
> ...


Not true. I have one in being repaired right now.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

Guys & Gals,

Listen to the Notch 6 podcast. 

Yes Mike will be involved is some of the repair aspects. In addition, *and this is the exciting part,* he will strongly involved in new product development. That can include everything from structures, service facilities, layout signaling etc. This is going to be very exciting for everybody in our hobby. Any new products will be developed and assembled in the USA. That alone should cut the delivery time by a bunch. I'm guessing by 60-75 percent.

Here is a link to the 40 minute podcast.

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/...amily-exclusive-details-in-notch-6-episode-95


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2017)

No question that Mike is a very talented guy. The success of whatever he touches at TW will come down to *COST-COST-COST*.

Let's not lose sight of the $ 1,800-$ 1,900 GCT bases, a facade for Penn Station at over 3K and another train station over 4K. All well and good to reach out for new products and services, but unless pricing meets market demand, optimism will be greatly affected.

I have learned to take a wait and see what comes from all of this first before I set off any fireworks.


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

Sounds like we may have to see how many people with "deep pockets" are waiting for these types of products. There is a tier of people for whom "price is no object" in this hobby, but I question if they are of sufficient volume to support this part of the new venture. I am thinking of buildings with this comment, but the principle would apply to anything other than service or repairs. 

I doubt that Mike will be involved in day to day repairs, but rather in setting it up and managing it. He certainly has an excellent reputation in that area.

Art


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## mgraziani (Jan 10, 2017)

I would assume that most of TW's clients have the cash to pay, what will be, Mike's hourly rate.
Roger will be able to wrap it into a package deal - "Buy a layout from us and we'll send Mike Regan to your house once a year to personally service your layout and motive power fleet!."


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> No question that Mike is a very talented guy. The success of whatever he touches at TW will come down to *COST-COST-COST*.
> 
> Let's not lose sight of the $ 1,800-$ 1,900 GCT bases, a facade for Penn Station at over 3K and another train station over 4K. All well and good to reach out for new products and services, but unless pricing meets market demand, optimism will be greatly affected.
> 
> I have learned to take a wait and see what comes from all of this first before I set off any fireworks.


Brian, your points are very well taken. By and large, businesses like TWX -- as well as Dunham Studios (to mention another big name in custom layout building) -- have an EXTREMELY long "sales cycle" due to the amount of investment involved. To date, these cycles might typically begin with a York or other trade-show meeting... followed by a series of discussions either via phone, email or in-person. I would venture a guess that it's not unusual for this process to extend well beyond a year -- perhaps two -- BEFORE layout design/construction begins. And then clients are often looking at a 6-12 month period when the project is actually in full production. These things don't just happen overnight. 

Today, I viewed a 15-minute video produced by TWX that essentially announces Mike Reagan coming on board to TWX. And from what I can gather from this video, it appears TWX may be attempting to jump-start the sales cycle for not only layout-building projects, but also [1] a layout assessment service as well as [2] train repair (for owners of a TWX custom layout) and [3] structure sales (as either complete kits, partial assembly, or completely assembled).

Clearly, this is all work-in-progress at this time. And there's the expected excitement around the announcement of Mike Reagan resurfacing in the industry as a TWX partner. But I definitely agree with you that the COST DETAILS have yet to be unveiled. As a starting point, TWX's clients are clearly folks who are very passionate about the hobby AND have deep pockets to make their dreams happen quicker than they could do it all themselves. I suspect this group of enthusiasts will continue to be the "sweet spot" for TWX, although these new endeavors are clearly the first attempt at either broadening that audience a bit or -- at a minimum -- jump-starting the sales cycle to engage new clients in a way that builds TWX's existing business.

TWX will discover pretty quickly how receptive the marketplace will be to these ideas once more pricing details are defined. Consequently, it wouldn't surprise me if this phase proceeds cautiously -- albeit deliberately -- in a way that tests out the waters a bit. But at the end of the day, I don't think these new services will be for the faint-of-heart or the bargain-basement segment of the hobby, if you know what I mean. 

David


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> [2] train repair (for owners of a TWX custom layout) and [3] structure sales (as either complete kits, partial assembly, or completely assembled).
> 
> Clearly, this is all work-in-progress at this time. And there's the expected excitement around the announcement of Mike Reagan resurfacing in the industry as a TWX partner. But I definitely agree with you that the COST DETAILS have yet to be unveiled. As a starting point, TWX's clients are clearly folks who are very passionate about the hobby AND have deep pockets to make their dreams happen quicker than they could do it all themselves. I suspect this group of enthusiasts will continue to be the "sweet spot" for TWX, although these new endeavors are clearly the first attempt at either broadening that audience a bit or -- at a minimum -- jump-starting the sales cycle to engage new clients in a way that builds TWX's existing business.
> 
> ...


That's the way I read the press release. It seems to me that Mike's repair services will be for TrainWorx layout customers.

The TrainWorx folks are very nice people. But even during the time when I was throwing money around at the York Meet like a drunken sailor, the costs of their items and services made me pause. At one time I was very interested in their Penn Station. When first displayed at York it was presented as the "first phase", which is what they have for sale now. The other parts of the complete building would be made later if they received enough orders _after_ they sold out the first phase, which never happened.

I didn't want to take that chance.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

they have to be dealing with a market segment that most of us have no contact with. not visible to me, anyway,.

it must be working for them, because they are still around and, obviously, expanding. however, the expansion, as stated above, remains within that market segment. 

Mike is a great guy and certainly smart and knowledgeable. i would prefer him to be connected to the hobby in a way that is accessible to me, but this probably is not it. best of luck to him, regardless. a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I did post this earlier... 

 Mike Reagan Lands at Trainworx

It will be interesting to see how he makes out and what impact he has there.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I don't think there are many folks on any of the forums that will drop 25 to 75 thousand to have a custom layout built for them. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Bill


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They are very nice layouts, but you're right, I doubt too many here are potential customers.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2017)

No worries, I doubt that we will have anything directly posted about this HR acquisition to the MTF from either Mike or TW. Perhaps they believe the only interest or potential customers is limited to just one source. Their loss!!!!!!!

I also bet they only like plain vanilla ice cream.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I would suggest there are more customers than most realize. I learned many things when I decided to become one of those customers. As some of you readers of the S gauge posts know, I took delivery in November and have posted many pictures in the S gauge forum of the construction and final product. Mine is not of the type I discuss below.
One thing learned is I was an outlier customer of the high end finely detailed builders of architectural quality scale models. Most a people who commission these are not very engaged in model railroading, but fondly remember their childhood trains. None of the other customers I have talked to are active on the Forums or even knew they exist.
I have been serving as a reference for new customers of the builder I used. Spoke at length with a customer who just commissioned a large HO scale layout. He had not heard of DCC, was trying to understand how his future layout would work but had already committed to spend over $250,000 for it.
Most of these are private layouts that are never publicized in any way. I saw one layout ready for delivery and install that was going under the floor of a 25'x35' living room. The ground was excavated and a removable glass living room floor installed. Some of the customers require part of their hometown be included in the layout. These buildings must all be custom built either by a craftsman or by 3D printing. 
Interestingly many of these people are not customers who are anxiously awaiting the newest releases from Lionel and MTH. What I see is the customers have some engines, the builder may provide some additional and it is rare if they buy more. I am afraid many of these layouts are trophy possesions, not a passionate hobby.


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## SantaFeJim (Sep 8, 2015)

I am just going to toss out some numbers that I PFA. Trainworx can appeal to clubs as much or more than to individuals with Deep Pockets.

In just O-scale (2-rail & 3-rail) there are probably 75-100 clubs in the US that have 30 or more members. Certainly it would be much easier for them to buy Trainworx products & services.

This forum has thousands of members in every scale that belong to who knows how many clubs? They could buy high-end buildings, signaling systems and a whole assortment of model RR structures.

Trainworx - read my email and make yourself known HERE.

:SELLIT:

Thanks


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

This is primarily an O gauge forum. We are pretty small potatoes in the overall train world.

Cost is not what the customers for this kind of layout are overly concerned with. Many people have the financial means to commission one of these layouts and all kinds of reasons for doing so with varying degrees of involvement. The amount of money involved is an afterthought which is not to say that they do not want and expect to be treated fairly.

They do expect attention, quality, honesty, to be heard, and assistance in understanding what they need to know that will enable them to reach their desires. And they generally demand excellence in what is done throughout the entire process.

Mike certainly has the knowledge, appears to work well with people, and has a presence that people appreciate. He has a reputation for performance.

I have been fortunate to have been involved in offshore fishing and to have known some of the owners of major yacht building companies. One told me a story about a phone call from a good customer. She and her husband owned two of his boats (custom in excess of 70 feet) and she was looking for a birthday present for her husband.

The builder just happened to have a 74 footer on the line and at the perfect stage where a new owner would be able to be involved but not have a three year wait. Done deal. He arranged for a birthday party, a personal family type of thing that included at the buyer's insistence all of the employees, and the couple flew in on their private jet. They had a wonderful time and now the vessel is one of three that are in different locations, captains aboard and ready to go.

The millions of dollars involved are not as important as the relationships that exist. And the product is absolutely among the top five in the world.

Mike appears to me to be someone who can function in this environment. I wish him the very best and hope that they have great success. It should be a fun ride.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> I don't think there are many folks on any of the forums that will drop 25 to 75 thousand to have a custom layout built for them. ...


And the range quoted there is actually on the low end in terms of layout size and/or complexity. 

David


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

I used to wonder where all the money came from. I would see young people that had everything, money was not a concern of theirs. I wondered if they were drug dealers or had inherited vast sums of money? But as I have aged, I have come to realize that there are a very large number of people that live in that rare atmosphere. They are able to think differently about things like having a custom layout built. For them it's more who can understand what I want, do what I want, when I want it. The price is not a major part of the decision for them. For us normal folks that can be hard to understand and even harder to relate to.

If TW can continue to tap into this market niche, the sky's the limit for them. Mike Reagan can help them do that. These people want turnkey, no problems and when there is "who you gonna call?" It won't be "how much is it going to cost me to solve this problem, but how soon can you do it?"

It will be interesting.

Art


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Mike is certainly well known, and has years of experience, and a wonderful rapport with a large cross section of the hobby, first from his time at Train America Studios, then his time with Lionel, and the major improvements to the inventory, repair side and the web site. He is very personable and down to earth. He takes the time to LISTEN to what folks have to say, and answers questions promptly and concisely. He will do well at Trainworx.
Don


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> And the range quoted there is actually on the low end in terms of layout size and/or complexity.
> 
> David


David, I was referring to the average Joe on the forum, 25 to 75 probably would be as far as they could commit to a build. Was not talking about the guy that has top end 6 figure annual income that could drop 100 grand or more on a layout. Don't believe there are many of those types on the forums.

Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

seayakbill said:


> I don't think there are many folks on any of the forums that will drop 25 to 75 thousand to have a custom layout built for them. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
> 
> Bill


There seem to be enough, that is certain. The thing that continues to amaze me is how many people with significant interest in model trains (enough to spend that type of money or more) _do not ever _share with magazine articles or go on forums. I run into them only occasionally at hobby stores or TCA meets or church or even the wine store. 

Among people I know, all just in my area (central NC) there are two who had layouts all or partly professionally built. I did not talk money with either of them, but I know what things cost. Counting the building he had built just for his trains, one spend at least ten times that overall.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2017)

*Trainworx - read my email and make yourself known HERE.*

Jim, not be be disparaging, but don't hold your breath. Really dumb in my opinion not to take advantage of *EVERY* professional resource to promote your product and services, but to some allegiances are more important. Takes all kinds I guess.

Their loss.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *Trainworx - read my email and make yourself known HERE.*
> 
> Jim, not be be disparaging, but don't hold your breath. Really dumb in my opinion not to take advantage of *EVERY* professional resource to promote your product and services, but to some allegiances are more important. Takes all kinds I guess.
> 
> Their loss.


The ironic thing, Brian, is that TWX was never all that close or committed to "the other forum", and they've had their differences (as we all have). Not sure they're even a formal sponsor there.  Change is constant, as they say though. So things may have changed recently with everybody over there suddenly saying nice things about each other amidst Mike Reagan's return to the hobby. But I know for a while our posts about TWX products and general activities would get deleted, or links to TWX's website would magically disappear from our posts -- depending on who was moderating the forum that hour. 

Bottom line... The fact that this is a bit of "news" in the industry may be overriding the fact that relations between the two companies hasn't always been "palsie-walsie". We shall see, but TWX is the last company I'd expect to give any kind of special allegience to the other forum. They've often been featured in CTT, and they have a tight relationship with the LCCA. So they seem to value broad exposure.

Just sayin'.

David


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2017)

David, you bring up a good point, but Mike brings a completely different element to their current relationship. He is well liked in the hobby and was a frequent poster for Lionel there. I think it would be safe to say he has an alliance of some sort with them and no doubt they don't want to offend him in any way. They may consider action that was prevalent in the past as not being good for business since Mike is on the team.

No matter, you probably will not see any of them post here, at least for the time being until the future of the other guys is defined. 

You can make the case that completely ignoring a resource like the MTF where you can make an announcement like this for a zero investment with *no strings attached* is pretty stupid. But perhaps they have so much business that they don't need any further exposure.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> The ironic thing, Brian, is that TWX was never all that close or committed to "the other forum", and they've had their differences (as we all have). Not sure they're even a formal sponsor there.  Change is constant, as they say though. So things may have changed recently with everybody over there suddenly saying nice things about each other amidst Mike Reagan's return to the hobby.
> 
> ...


Well, speak of the devil... I just noticed a few minutes ago it was announced that TWX is now a forum and magazine sponsor "over there". So now that the checks are being cut, everybody is one big happy family and TWX is now a legitimate topic/company to talk about on OGR.

Just keeping it all in perspective!!! 

David


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2017)

Thanks David for the update, I'm sure we all feel better now.  Just more plain vanilla.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

David beat me to it. I was laughing when I saw it having just read the previous comments here.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> No matter, you probably will not see any of them post here, at least for the time being until the future of the other guys is defined.
> 
> You can make the case that completely ignoring a resource like the MTF where you can make an announcement like this for a zero investment with *no strings attached* is pretty stupid. But perhaps they have so much business that they don't need any further exposure.


Brian, over exposure only applies to photography; in the business world, you can never have enough, especially if it's free. 
Don


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

It's a delicate balance. A company may not want to advertise their product in a place that can openly, even honestly, criticize their products unchecked.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Seems like a no brainer for the manufactures to use the big gorilla of O Gauge forums because that is where they get maximum exposure. The question for each one of them, is the exposure worth the expense. I would say for a new entry into the hobby such as Menards the answer would be yes. For the old timers such as Lionel and MTH maybe not.

But it would just seem logical to use this forum also to get their message out especially since there is no expense to do it. I don't think Lionel, MTH, or Atlas are really concerned if they hurt the big gorilla's ego if they use other forums.

Bill


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2017)

I think what separates us the most is we can have a frank and helpful discussion of all products related to O-Gauge. The manufacturers/suppliers would be well served to be exposed to what is posted here, if nothing more than to *IMPROVE* their goods.

Living in a glass bubble accomplishes little other than perhaps making them all feel a little better. But this puts nothing into the pocketbook.

In the meantime, I hope Mike likes plain vanilla ice cream.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Seems like a no brainer for the manufactures to use the big gorilla of O Gauge forums because that is where they get maximum exposure. ...


I would agree that's the case, if they have something interesting to announce or add to a discussion. But I personally never even look at those blinking ad banners at the top of the web-page. Just makes my brain hurt too much. It amazes me that anyone would actually garner any business from solely having a blinking banner in that maze of ads.

Now posting a separate announcement/topic or establishing a presence in forum discussions is a completely different matter. That's where I would see lots of value in posting helpful information on an ongoing basis.

David


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

Now posting a separate announcement/topic or establishing a presence in forum discussions is a completely different matter. That's where I would see lots of value in posting helpful information on an ongoing basis.

David[/QUOTE]
That is what the OGR forum promotes from its paid sponsors, but not all do. Then, there are those who complain when sponsors do promote their products or announce specials. I guess when there are over 20,000 members, there are bound to be at least 10,000 opinions! I like the designated forum for product promotion on this forum and several others I participate in.
Don


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2017)

The term "ban" or banned have been bantered around a lot in the public forum these days. It made me think how these words may apply to some of the points made in this thread and how we differ from other places. These three words came to mind:

*Pay to Play*

Fortunately for us, this forum will have none of that.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

I'm happy for Mike. Fantastic for him and for our hobby at large.

TW might not even know about this forum. Like other businesses who post here, one would think they would jump at the chance to market their products here. It just might take an email or phone call to make it happen.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2017)

*"TW might not even know about this forum"*

Todd, I can assure you they know about the MTF. We are mined every day to see what is being posted. Too bad they don't get smart and use this wonderful resource and get free advertising to boot. I guess they prefer paying the big bucks. 

It makes me think of a current ad running on TV from one of the tax refund providers where the actors say, please charge me more money when I know I can get it for free.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Wow Brian, that's odd. From what I remember TW and that forum had a rocky relationship in the past. I can remember Dorcie's posts being edited and deleted on occasion and she wasn't real happy about it.

There are some serious hobbyists that frequent this forum that would be good suitors for their offerings.

MTF is a jewel that is really being untapped right now for marketing like this.

Thanks for the update!


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2017)

*"Wow Brian, that's odd. From what I remember TW and that forum had a rocky relationship in the past. I can remember Dorcie's posts being edited and deleted on occasion and she wasn't real happy about it."
*

Rocky Mountaineer David posted today they became their newest advertiser. I guess that dollars can heal some relationships. *Pay to play???????*


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Perhaps Mike had something to do about the sponsorship. He did post there during his tenure at Lionel.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2017)

I would say he had a lot to do with this, Todd. Otherwise the timing would be rather odd. An announcement that he has joined the firm and an announcement of a new advertiser follows shortly thereafter. Coincidence?

But I consider what happens over the wall (I do like walls) as academic. Let's see what happens later this year when things probably will shake out a lot.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

_Isn't half the fun of this hobby building your own layout ?_


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2017)

*"Isn't half the fun of this hobby building your own layout ?"*

If not more than 1/2. I believe that layout construction is a huge part of the fun of our O-Gauge hobby. You get to plan it and then, build it. This gives you a sense of pride in your accomplishment more than ever can be achieved by having it custom built.

Fat cats with no time or any sense of EXPERTISE, maybe having it built is the only was they can go.

For the two of us, that would not be an option. Too much fun would be missed in the process.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Stoshu said:


> _Isn't half the fun of this hobby building your own layout ?_


Yes it is. I built my layout and have done some of my own train repair including installing ERR boards. (I leave the major stuff for the train repair guy) The only thing I didn't build are the buildings, but I have tweaked them.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Fun in this order

Operating the layout
Designing the layout
Building the layout

The last one is fun, but puts more stress on my limited skillz. 

Frankly, in my current state, I don't think I could take on a project the size of my current layout.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

I think folks approach the idea of having a layout built for a variety of reasons. And as is often the case in life, there is no right or wrong reason to do it. So I'm not in any way judgmental toward those who choose this path.

Quite the contrary, I give those folks credit for evaluating the reality in which they find themselves, and moving forward if they have the means. Many if us have the best of intentions to spend our "golden" retirement years building that dream layout -- only to find that the retirement years may be more tarnished silver than gold for whatever the reason. Others may have tried their hand at layout building over the years and found that they just can never get things done to a point of satisfaction. And for others, family responsibilities take on paramount levels of complexity, whether that means ones own health situation is less than ideal, or the health of children or aging parents requires more attention than anyone could have ever imagined. For others, their job/travel demands give them little time to tackle a project as involved as building a basement railroad empire. And I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface of possible reasons why some enthusiasts choose the route of having a custom layout built.

Suffice it to say, there's a defined -- albeit limited -- market in play for these services. And those services admittedly come at a premium cost. But at the end of the day, if it helps those who are otherwise challenged by the DIY approach to enjoy the hobby in their own special way, that's fine by me.

David


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

Well said Dave. Sometimes I wish I was a fat cat, but don't know if becoming one would mean I'd be too busy with business to build a layout.

If you're a dyed in the wool model railroad fan you'll get that layout built somehow. By yourself or delegating it to a professional builder if you have the means.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Also, some people are in a hurry and just want to get a layout done. Hiring a team to build it gets it done soon.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I like to take my time and think things through. Once I have a set plan then I get started leaving room for unforeseen modifications or just a change of mind. It could take weeks or days.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

A good friend of mine had his layout built by professionals. Two reason, his business in Washington DC required him to be managing it 80 to 100 hours a week and he did not have the expertise required to build a giant fully detailed layout. Money was no object and he wanted to be running his massive collection of locos ASAP.

Bill


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2017)

When I lived in the Chicago area, I too worked a busy schedule with typical 70-80 hour work weeks and a lot of weekend travel that accounted to over 100,000 air miles a year. The layout I built was in Maine and I got home maybe 2 weekends a month. But I had a passion to build the layout without professional help and *found the time* to get the job done.

For me, this all comes down to the personal pride that can only come by doing it yourself. Yes, having it professionally built with a resulting museum quality layout is very nice, but it can *never replace the satisfaction that comes from doing it yourself. *


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

That's very true. But I imagine, for some people they don't have or care to have any satisfaction from building a layout on their own. For some it's all about results and they may just want to skip all, what they consider, unnecessary work or obstacle to get to the end game, which is running their trains.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Traindiesel said:


> That's very true. But I imagine, for some people they don't have or care to have any satisfaction from building a layout on their own. For some it's all about results and they may just want to skip all, what they consider, unnecessary work or obstacle to get to the end game, which is running their trains.


This is true Brian. What are they going to do if a problem develops and since they didn't build it they won't know where or how to fix it. Which means they have to wait until someone can come fix it for them. It could be something as simple as a loose wire. 

When I lived in Chicago I saw this type of thing in all aspects of life. People own dogs, but don't have time for them so they pay someone else to walk them and play with them, but they own a dog because it's popular. Dare I say even with their own children. How about people that own a house, but don't want to do the maintenance like cutting grass or tending flower gardens. 

If that's is the way they do things that's fine, but it hard to admire it from them because they didn't do it. I would admire the ones who did for them.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2017)

The dog analogy is an excellent parallel to this situation, Denny. Good for you.

Bailee and Cooper came to live with us four months ago. They are not pawned off on anyone. We would lose all the fun of raising two beautiful dogs if we did.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> The dog analogy is an excellent parallel to this situation, Denny. Good for you.
> 
> Bailee and Cooper came to live with us four months ago. They are not pawned off on anyone. We would lose all the fun of raising two beautiful dogs if we did.


Brain, I had friends who made a good living walking someone else's dog.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

As the perhaps only apparent MTF member with a professionally built layout I will provide some thoughts for those interested. Each year I build a Christmas train layout that stays up about 2 months. These are typically about 6'x10' and nicely detailed. I have posted pictures here in some of the threads of four or five of them. When it came time to build a permanent layout I realized it was beyond my ability to create what I wanted. There are many people in the hobby who create truly wonderful layouts for themselves, I am not in that class of talent. Twice earlier, coincidentally both times I was living in Chicago in houses with a basement I started a permanent layout, emphasis on the started. These were definite educational experiences about what my limitations were.
Some things I used to do were all my car maintenance /repairs, build stereo equipment and electronic test instruments, paint the house and maintain the appliances. Well, over time most of that for one reason or another is now done by others. Full disclosure of how far I have gone off track from my former do it myself days, we have a cleaning service, a pool service and a landscape service. All this makes my wife and I happy and free to spend our discretionary time elsewhere so I suppose for us it is the right decision.
On to the layout. About 6,000 hours were spent by very talented professionals creating it. Watching them work was humbling. No way I could have equaled their work. But assuming I could, conservatively it would have take me at least twice as may hours, 12,000. At 1200 hours per year that is 10 years! 10 years without a complete layout. Plus in Southern California with no basement or viable attic the layout is in the living space of the house. My wife said no way would she accept even one year of construction, let alone 5 or 10 years. She made the final decision to have it professionally built. She is completely supportive of my toy train hobby.
What one gets from a professional is different from most home layouts. The final track plan produced by the builder is far better than my best effort. The layout is modular so it can be disassembled, shipped and reassembled. Were I to move, it takes 4 days to disassemble, crate and load the layout on its way to a new location. Scenery is removable for access to hidden tracks.
Reliability is mandatory, these builders do not want to build layouts that require constant adjustments and repairs. All components are of proven quality over many years of building and shipping layouts.
I will maintain the layout for as long as I am physically able to do so. Maintenance is easy underneath, all wires are color coded, labeled, and organized. Since I took delivery in November I have gone through the layout to double check the electrical work. Found a few loose wires, nothing else. Several of the Lionel LCS devices (three of the ASC-2's) lost their TMCC address programing. I just had to reprogram them following the instructions and the list of assigned TMCC addresses for the layout.When I email a detail question to the builder I always have a reply within hours. The documentation manual supplied with the layout is first rate so any one who wants to work on could easily do so. This layout is easier to maintain and repair than the holiday layouts I build for myself. After one year the builder will send a couple of people out to look over the layout, make any adjustments/repairs to deal with the settling in and any early failures that developed. One thing I would not want to do is recreate the seven layout mimic screens in the LCS app on the iPad. That is backed up on my PC and on a file storage device. This layout has no manual controls. All turnouts, accessories, uncouplers, lights, block power and route settings are done with the LCS from an iPad. Of course they can all be controlled from the Cab2 with the master address list if necessary.
I hope this provides some useful perspective on why at least one family decided to go the professional build path. We are both extremely happy we did. I still enjoy designing and building the nice Christmas layouts and already look forward to this coming season. If any of the MTF members are visiting in our area please let me know, we would be delighted to host a visit.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Tom please don't misunderstand I'm not criticizing the fact that some people had professionals build their layout, I'm referring to those individuals who do it and don't want to put in the work at all. You are obviously not one of them. I understand why you hired professionals to do it and it is sound reasoning. If I were in your shoes I would have done the same depending on the cost.

By the way, where in Chicago did you live? I was born and raised on the South side right by 31st and Lake Shore Drive. Later in life I lived in Lake View aka Wrigleyville and then near Lawrence and Western. I also lived in Evanston for 21/2 years


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Tom it sure sounds like you made the correct choice for your family. I applaud what you have done. Obviously you enjoy it and know what you are doing. The level that quality professionals can reach is beyond what most of us can achieve. 

You had the knowledge and experience of people with expertise and probably interest in different areas of the hobby. Trying to reach their skill level would be virtually impossible due to time constraints.

I don't feel that there is any right or wrong way. The choice is up to the individual(s) involved.

If we get out your way again this summer, we will take you up on your offer. We would love to see your layout.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

I applaud AmFlyer for taking the time to compose such a thoughtful response. 

As an aside, I believe that some of us in our personal pursuits in this hobby may neglect our families without knowing it at the time. For myself, I look back on time spent golfing, and $$$ spent domestically and overseas enjoying that hobby, with more than a little regret; perhaps I was selfish.

In any event, it's worthwhile to re-examine the balance between the "me time" devoted to our trains, and the other important obligations we all have to others.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Tom,

You are not the only MTF member who decided to have a layout professionally built.  If all goes as planned, I will be joining your ranks during 2017 with delivery scheduled by none other than himself, Santa Claus, in early December. Yes, Virginia... there really is a Santa Claus!!! 

You beat me to outlining some of the final criteria that factored into my decision-making, which I was just about to outline here when I saw your post tonight. But here's my story (for those who may be so interested in reading)...

I have been an avid model railroader since my childhood days, when I started with a Lionel O-27 train set from my parents. I built several "table-top" layouts as a youngster, then switched over to HO in my teen years before that all took a back seat to my "right of passage" interest in girls and cars.  

During my HO years, I found that benchwork construction, track laying, and wiring were my strengths. And I even built my own TAT IV momentum throttle from Bruce Chubb's company Tri-Delt Electronics back in the 1970's. I experimented with hard-shell and zip-texturing scenery techniques, and built many HO kits from companies like Suydam and Cambpell Scale Models in those days. And all that stuff kept me out of trouble during my pre-teen and teen years. Looking back, I enjoyed all those facets of model railroading. And through much of the 1980's and 1990's, I stayed very close to the O-Gauge train world while traveling extensively with my corporate job -- all the while hoping to one day have a moderately sized model train world of my own. So in 1997 when we built our home, I ensured there would be a nice size train room for an O-Gauge high-rail layout in what turned out to be our home's walk-out lower-level. I actually started the benchwork for a layout in 1997, but then many of "life's realities" that I outlined in my earlier post in this thread hit us pretty much head-on.

Fast-forward many years to today... and I realized that not much progress was made on what I had started nearly 20 years ago.  TWENTY YEARS!!!  So a little over a year ago, I decided to seriously consider having a layout professionally built. I enjoyed exercising my creativity in designing my own layout -- starting with the essence of a classic Lionel layout from the 1950's... then adding multiple levels to suit my desire to have multiple trains running on those days when I want to just kick back and enjoy 3 or 4 four trains running simultaneously. I then turned my track plan over to the professionals, and any day now I will be getting a "first look" at their 3D modeling of what will hopefully be the go-ahead version of my layout to be built in 2017. My next step will be to get ALL the stuff I've "accumulated" over the years that I wish to incorporate on the layout to their studio/shop (i.e., operating accessories, buildings, track, etc...). And after that, it should be one fun ride throughout 2017 watching the progress unfold... and then hopefully culminate with delivery in early December 2017 just in time for Christmas (before snow hits in the 2017/2018 Winter Season).

Truthfully, I've always admired watching some of the online threads that have outlined the progress some enthusiasts have made recently -- highlighting the development of their layouts. One in particular was done by a fellow in western PA, and it seemed like he accomplished the unthinkable -- building one heck of a beautiful basement empire in a matter of months... maybe one year max. But in what seemed like just a matter of another year or two, the layout was dismantled. And it really got me thinking how sad that must have been to tear down such a beautiful "work of art" after all that hard work.

That was another factor that set a mental switch of sorts in my mind, because I didn't want to face the same dilemma if -- for whatever reason -- we needed to move or downsize in our later years. I love this hobby enough that I'd always want it to be a part of my life, the Good Lord willing. I'm "only" turning 58 later this month, so I hope to enjoy many years ahead... emphasis on ENJOY ... but I've already had one serious health scare that got me really thinking about things. The prognosis right now is extremely good (I've never felt better), so I'm hoping that beating this thing just might be my little mini-miracle of sorts. And that being the case, I didn't want to take another 10 or 20 years to complete the process of building a layout. AND if we do need to move or downsize, I wanted the layout to at least be PORTABLE. My carpentry expertise is all in building PERMANENT benchwork, but I was extremely intrigued by the possibility of a gorgeous, professionally built layout being moveable down the road if the need presented itself. That pretty much further led me down the road of choosing a professionally built layout.

Sorry for the lengthy post here, but I hope it gives folks yet another view "behind the eyes" of someone who has been in the hobby for decades but then ultimately decided to have a layout professionally built. My biggest regret is that my Dad won't be able to see the finished product "in person", since he departed this world four years ago next month. But I do believe he will have one special bird's eye view of something he helped set in motion over 50 years ago.

David


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Some great thoughts expressed here. Thank you all for taking the time to post them.
Denny, I was not seeing any criticism here, this forum is always honest and open. I was just adding my personal experience. If four years ago someone told me I would have a layout built I would have laughed out loud, things change in unexpected ways. In the 70's we lived in Woodridge Center, just east of RTE 53 at 63rd street. In the 90's we lived on the north edge of Wheaton at Geneva road. I understand it is now part of Carol Stream.
Bill, you are certainly welcome if you make the trip.
Carl, you made a good point I missed. I try not to do things other than work that keep me away from my family. My wife and I worked at the same company for 20 years until I changed jobs and she retired early.
Dave, a fantastic story. You should enjoy the experience except for paying the invoices. My wife is the family CFO, so she reviewed, checked, validated and paid, sparing me that part. Do not rush the track plan, scenery, visualization and operating flexibility. There are a surprising number of decisions along the way but once the layout structure is cut and assembled to match the track plan it is really difficult and expensive to revise.
My layout was built in another part of the country. I made 5 trips there during construction and my wife made one. It was worth it. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. We look forward to progress posts. As an aside we are coming to the Pittsburgh TCA show late June. I plan to take tour 26 on Friday evening to see the s gauge layout.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

David, we have a lot in common. We're in the same age group, I'm turning 60 this year. We both had medical scares which I'm glad your doing well. For me it was a motorcycle accident and I'm here to tell you about it. My father didn't live to see my layout. He passed in 1992, but he always wanted to build a layout when I was boy so I built mine in his honor.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

David and Tom, you guys nailed it on why some folks have some very solid reasons for going the professional route for a layout. IMO after building numerous layouts over a lifetime of operating electric trains I prefer to run the trains than building the framework, laying track, and worse of all, the darn wiring.

Bill


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

David and Tom, thanks for sharing your reasons for having a layout professionally built. These are only two of many reasons people might want a professionally built layout. Physical disabilities, lack of time, lack of knowledge or lack of interest, it doesn't matter. This is a diverse hobby with many facets. People get into it for many different reasons and enjoy or dislike different skills. There are people in this forum that proclaim a dislike for soldering or wiring in their signatures. I like soldering and wiring. That's the beauty of the hobby. There is something for everyone and not everything appeals to everybody. Happy Railroading.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2017)

Tom, would it be possible for you to post photos of your layout? From what you have described, it has to be very impressive.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Brian, when I get home I will post some new pictures of the layout. The most recent set of pictures is an S gauge thread halfway down the second page in the S forum. It is called Layout delivery, It shows what happens on delivery day. There are also six additional posts with pictures during construction posted over the last year, all in the S gauge forum section. Meanwhile try this link for a video of a ride around the layout.
Sorry, I get an error when I test the link, but it works from my email. I will have to do this at home with my personal devices rather than from the corporate system.
There is a post of some current pictures of the layout in the S gauge section I had forgotten about. It is the 30 thread down from the top on the first page of the S forum. Sorry I have not yet figured out how to paste the link in this reply.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Tom that is one impressive layout. Please post the video when you get an opportunity.

Thanks

Bill


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