# Pre-Orders



## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

I got started into this hobby 2 years ago and chose N scale due mainly to space availability. The TH&B, Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo RR, has always been a favorite of mine as I saw them daily while growing up in the Niagara region of Ontario. Right from the start, I began to look for one of these (TH&B GP9) with absolutely no luck at all. So I ended up painting over a different road name to at least have something close to what I wanted. It turned out OK. Not great, but OK. But meanwhile, I kept my eyes open constantly on the lookout for the model I want, either brand new or used. By the way, around these parts, the TH&B was affectionatley referred to as the To Hell & Back railroad.

Finally! An announcement in my email from one of the online shops I order from. Atlas has announced they will be producing these locos in N Scale. I have a question....what are your experiences with timetables, from an "announcement of product" to actually arriving at your door? I have never before ordered something that does not already exist, but in this case I did not hesitate to hit the "order" button. I have no idea. (Photo of the Atlas model, and what I have for now).


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The Atlas web-site says delivery will be in the 4 th quarter of 2022…..but they have been running late on their releases lately, Covid, supply chain issues, etc, so…..

The table below is from their site…..announced Jan, 20, 2022, pre-orders due March 9, 2022, delivery 4th quarter 2022….










Check their web-site from time to time for updates…..

Atlas N Scale Locomotives


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

Thanks Old_Hobo. So looks like I will have a considerable wait, but I will be delighted to own this model whenever it does finally arrive. I ordered the DCC model. $250.00 USD. Converting to Canadian $, adding shipping and taxes, I guess I will be looking at around $350-$375 Cdn. Not a bargain, but it should be worth it.


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

Old_Hobo said:


> The Atlas web-site says delivery will be in the 4 th quarter of 2022…..but they have been running late on their releases lately, Covid, supply chain issues, etc, so…..
> 
> The table below is from their site…..announced Jan, 20, 2022, pre-orders due March 9, 2022, delivery 4th quarter 2022….
> 
> ...


That's great to know. I did not realize that they had this information on the site. I guess I should have looked at all the headings. Thanks!


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

It's cool to be able to have something from the livery of a local railroad. I was thrilled to find an Alco C420 painted in Ohio Central System colors for my layout. Congrats on the find. Now find something to take your mind off it for a spell.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I waited six months for a pre-order that finally arrived and is now sold out everywhere and none at the factory. I'm glad I got it when I did.

I'm still waiting almost a year on two additional pre-orders that are due 2Q/22.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

N scale Michael…..?


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> I waited six months for a pre-order that finally arrived and is now sold out everywhere and none at the factory. I'm glad I got it when I did.
> 
> I'm still waiting almost a year on two additional pre-orders that are due 2Q/22.


Kato announced they will make an N scale Big Boy. I already told the LHS to pre-order one for me. No one knows yet when they will even open up the pre-order let alone deliver the models. I am not expecting it to be in my hands for at least two years.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I never know if anything I pre-order will actually be released so I don't get my hopes up. I'm very happy when something is released that I've been waiting on.

It seems that model railroading has turned into a pre-ordering and hope for the best type of hobby. There are some staples that will nearly always be available because they are very popular, but for a lot of equipment most runs are very limited. I'd really like to know how many examples of the locomotive I bought last month were actually produced. 

It was out for about two months before they dried up and now they can't be found anywhere. They might very well have been all pre-orders too.


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

JeffHurl said:


> It's cool to be able to have something from the livery of a local railroad. I was thrilled to find an Alco C420 painted in Ohio Central System colors for my layout. Congrats on the find. Now find something to take your mind off it for a spell.


Ahhh, yes, plenty to keep me occupied in the meantime. I have building kits to build, scenery to add, and so on. I may transform that GP9 that I had painted, into a New York Central after my new loco arrives. NYC ran trains all over this area as well, servicing all the industries during the heyday.


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

Each reply here seems to reinforce the idea that you must get what you can get, while you can get it. Snooze....you lose.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

TommyB said:


> Each reply here seems to reinforce the idea that you must get what you can get, while you can get it. Snooze....you lose.


Or what happens to me, preorder, wait, just to be told 8 months later they are not going to make it. 
But not all items are like that, but also turned me off from preordering anything.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Big Ed said:


> Or what happens to me, preorder, wait, just to be told 8 months later they are not going to make it.
> But not all items are like that, but also turned me off from preordering anything.


That happens a lot at my end of the hobby, except you're not even told it won't be released.

In the 2022 Jägerndorfer catalog that was published last October, the ÖBB 1822 locomotive was advertised as a re-release with new molds. I contacted Jägarndorfer directly to find out a release date, or at least a tenative release date.

I was told that regretably, it now won't be released until at least 3Q of 2023. It's like that all over the map on my end. You just never know, and if it comes out and you have a pre-order for it, you better buy it or you likely won't get one. Ever.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

TommyB said:


> Each reply here seems to reinforce the idea that you must get what you can get, while you can get it. Snooze....you lose.


That's the best way. They hobby has really trimmed down its inventory model, and therefore production runs are smaller. If something is a "must have" to you, a pre-order is a smart move.


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

I was at Tiny Trains in Delhi yesterday they had TH&B tee shirts, didn't look at the price.
This store had TH&B in HO, like you I'm doing N scale so not too much else I was interested in.


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## Andreash (Dec 30, 2018)

I’m passionate about this hobby, but I stopped pre-orders. As bad as I want something, the reality for me is if I miss out, there’s always something “new” that will come out and grab my attention…..


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

Big Ed said:


> Or what happens to me, preorder, wait, just to be told 8 months later they are not going to make it.
> But not all items are like that, but also turned me off from preordering anything.





Big Ed said:


> Or what happens to me, preorder, wait, just to be told 8 months later they are not going to make it.
> But not all items are like that, but also turned me off from preordering anything.


I can see where that can happen. That would be a concern here, since this particular road name is a very local one. There just might not be enough interest to justify a manufacturing run? But on the other hand, why announce an item if you didn't have some justification, interest wise, to run it in the beginning? Time will tell, and I appreciate the replies here that do not completely support the positive side of pre-ordering just as much as those that do. Thanks.


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

GTW son said:


> I was at Tiny Trains in Delhi yesterday they had TH&B tee shirts, didn't look at the price.
> This store had TH&B in HO, like you I'm doing N scale so not too much else I was interested in.


GTW son, I would be interested in such a T-shirt. I will google Tiny Trains and see if they do online ordering. I do most of my online ordering from Otter Valley in Tilsonburg, and Credit Valley in Mississauga. The Credit Valley newsletter is where I saw the TH&B Atlas announcement, if that road name interests you.


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

10-4 I'm 5 mins from Credit Valley here in Mississauga, they finally opened they're doors to the public last Tues so went over.
Don't know if Tiny does online, my son lives in Delhi that's why I was there. 
Retired last year and just got out the old layout, trying to figure out where I'm going to go.
Right now I've got Ontario Northland doing coal and CPR doing grain/wheat.
Just built a window sill switching layout with parts I forgot I had.


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## TommyB (Jan 30, 2020)

GTW son said:


> 10-4 I'm 5 mins from Credit Valley here in Mississauga, they finally opened they're doors to the public last Tues so went over.
> Don't know if Tiny does online, my son lives in Delhi that's why I was there.
> Retired last year and just got out the old layout, trying to figure out where I'm going to go.
> Right now I've got Ontario Northland doing coal and CPR doing grain/wheat.
> Just built a window sill switching layout with parts I forgot I had.


I looked up Tiny Trains and found that they are a small family run shop. They do not have online shopping, but I tip my hat to them for being able to survive as a strictly bricks and mortar operation. They also have a lot of used material for sale, so I'm sure a person could find some bargains in there. I do not have a train or hobby shop anywhere near me. We had a fantastic store in St. Catharines, but they have been gone for at least a decade now. The nearest train store to me now is in Dundas. At least an hour drive on a good traffic day. If I lived 5 mins from Credit Valley, I'd be there all the time!


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Yeah, the owner is an older gentleman operating out of an old house in the west end of Delhi.
I was there for about an hour on Sat, he had a steady bunch of customer coming thru the door. 
Plenty of new stuff but more than enough used $5 and up, older stuff but still lots of life left in it. 
Not many of the old train stores left used to be many, not now.
I still go to Panther Hobbies in Mississauga from time to time. Find they're a bit more reasonable than CVR.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I’ve been to Panther Hobbies….I thought it was pretty good!


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Panther is more of a working mans hobby shop, again more reasonable prices.
Northstar wasn`t bad, sadly it went the way of the dodo bird.
There was a place in MIlton called Hemlock Junction.
Wasn`t there the last time I was there, may have moved, don`t know for sure.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

TommyB said:


> I looked up Tiny Trains and found that they are a small family run shop. They do not have online shopping, but I tip my hat to them for being able to survive as a strictly bricks and mortar operation. They also have a lot of used material for sale, so I'm sure a person could find some bargains in there. I do not have a train or hobby shop anywhere near me. We had a fantastic store in St. Catharines, but they have been gone for at least a decade now. The nearest train store to me now is in Dundas. At least an hour drive on a good traffic day. If I lived 5 mins from Credit Valley, I'd be there all the time!


Try the old-fashioned way. Call them and see if they will take a phone order. You might get lucky.


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## Railtunes (Jun 19, 2012)

TommyB said:


> I got started into this hobby 2 years ago and chose N scale due mainly to space availability. The TH&B, Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo RR, has always been a favorite of mine as I saw them daily while growing up in the Niagara region of Ontario. Right from the start, I began to look for one of these (TH&B GP9) with absolutely no luck at all. So I ended up painting over a different road name to at least have something close to what I wanted. It turned out OK. Not great, but OK. But meanwhile, I kept my eyes open constantly on the lookout for the model I want, either brand new or used. By the way, around these parts, the TH&B was affectionatley referred to as the To Hell & Back railroad.
> 
> Finally! An announcement in my email from one of the online shops I order from. Atlas has announced they will be producing these locos in N Scale. I have a question....what are your experiences with timetables, from an "announcement of product" to actually arriving at your door? I have never before ordered something that does not already exist, but in this case I did not hesitate to hit the "order" button. I have no idea. (Photo of the Atlas model, and what I have for now).
> 
> ...





TommyB said:


> I got started into this hobby 2 years ago and chose N scale due mainly to space availability. The TH&B, Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo RR, has always been a favorite of mine as I saw them daily while growing up in the Niagara region of Ontario. Right from the start, I began to look for one of these (TH&B GP9) with absolutely no luck at all. So I ended up painting over a different road name to at least have something close to what I wanted. It turned out OK. Not great, but OK. But meanwhile, I kept my eyes open constantly on the lookout for the model I want, either brand new or used. By the way, around these parts, the TH&B was affectionatley referred to as the To Hell & Back railroad.
> 
> Finally! An announcement in my email from one of the online shops I order from. Atlas has announced they will be producing these locos in N Scale. I have a question....what are your experiences with timetables, from an "announcement of product" to actually arriving at your door? I have never before ordered something that does not already exist, but in this case I did not hesitate to hit the "order" button. I have no idea. (Photo of the Atlas model, and what I have for now).
> 
> ...


Hi, Tommy,
You're going to find that pre-order is the way things get done these days. As an N scaler and former manufacturer myself (Interail N scale intermodal models in the 1980s and 90s), I understand why this has come about. The reasons are the high cost of tooling and the expense of stocking a "best guess" inventory. This is especially true if you are thinking of making a prototype or roadname that has only a relatively small following. As a fellow Canadian prototype modeller (Canadian Pacifc, mainly), but actually an American citizen, I think we both fit into the limited interest road category - and you even _much more _than I. We're definitely less popular than Santa Fe, Union Pacific, BNSF and Norfolk Southern these days, as well as their predecessor constituents. 
I'd also suggest you look up the editorial by Jason Shron of Rapido Trains there in Ontario and his explanation of why the preorder model is the case these days. You can find it somewhere on the Rapido Trains website and it was also published in Railroad Model Craftsman a year or so ago.
In any case, if you see an announcement for a model you want - like your TH&B GP9 - definitely _do not hesitate_ to get a preorder in ASAP. You can normally do this either direct with the manufacture, an online seller, or through your local hobby shop - my personal recommendation to help keep them in business. It costs you nothing up front and, if the model is cancelled, you're not out anything. But, if you _don't_ preorder, the manufacturer will have no idea what the level of interest is and the risk is much higher that it won't get made.
And do keep us posted on your TH&B modelling!
- Paul Ingraham (Railtunes)


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