# American Flyer Repair Questions



## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Hello lads... ladies,

I just purchased this American Flyer Train. I am new to trains as you can tell by my introduction first post.

I need to know how to best restore this O scale train. How do I get the oxidation off of the metal and what would you recommend for the Body and other parts?

When I purchased this Train it was part of an entire set that was advertized as pre war. I have since found out that at least one piece is 1949 or 50. One train out of the 3 was said to be a 1927. Need to figure it out. Anyway, this is one train out of the three that I want to restore.. Since I am learning, it seamed to be a good place to start.

Many thanks in advance,

Jonesy


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jonesy,

Nice looking loco. But that one can't possible be the prewar one you're talking about? Looks postwar for sure ... more recent than that, likely. (I'm no AF expert, though.)

We have Reckers, Stillakid, and a few others here who are well versed in AF.

As for cleaning the shiny metal bits, I would start with a gentle approach, and work you way up to a more aggressive approach as needed / desired. Gentle: Goo Gone and q-tips. Mild: a very fine-grit Scotchbrite pad. Working It: a Dremel with a brass wire brush. Going To Down: a Dremel with a stainless steel brush. I do a lot of prewar restoration work, and often jump right in with the latter. But one needs to be careful, though ... often, the metal is plated with nickel or chrome, and aggressive cleaning techniques can quickly eat right through that.

In all cased, disassemble the components as much as possible, first, and then work on individual bits. Keep track of assembly sequence, small fasteners, etc.

As for damaged paint, there's no easy answer there. Touch up paint, of course, but that will never fully blend in. My acquired trains are usually basket-cases and rust-buckets. I delve in with a full strip-to-bare-metal game plan, and prime and fully repaint from there.

Good luck!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*1959*

Link to the engine.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good find, T!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Good find, T!
> 
> TJ



I looked at T's link, I can't find a repair or engine tear down section.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Link to the engine.


I looked again?


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

TJ,

Thank you for the reply.

No.. This is supposedly 1927 American Flyer...

Thanks for the input mate,

Jonesy


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Thanks again TJ, It looks as though the disassemble and strip will be the best way to go with this particular train. I can apply air brush to make a good and even coat... Is there a spec sheet or paint supply place that would have the exact match or colour for the 59? 

Thanks ... this was definitely the right forum for us... I appreciate all of the input in just a short time.

Greatfully,

Jonesy


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

T-man, Big Ed,

Thanks for the input lads... i am trying to work all of this out.. Finally had time on this holiday weekend to actually get started with this before the big build.

Much appreciated lads

Jonesy


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Saxon said:


> Thanks again TJ, It looks as though the disassemble and strip will be the best way to go with this particular train. I can apply air brush to make a good and even coat... Is there a spec sheet or paint supply place that would have the exact match or colour for the 59?
> 
> Thanks ... this was definitely the right forum for us... I appreciate all of the input in just a short time.
> 
> ...


check out this link, http://www.mikestrainsandhobbies.com/parts/paint.html

I don't think your engine is listed and these are rattle spray cans.
They might be useful to you in the future.

TJ uses spray rattle cans. Goes and picks a color that he thinks matches close.
If you can airbrush I think that would be the best way to paint it.
Have you airbrushed before?

I painted this Lionel #2065 with spray paint cans two colors and it was not an easy task.









The redo thread, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7467


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

That looks great Big Ed, and no I have not airbrushed before but have a great friend i used to share a studio with in another life who I saw airbrush a million times.

Again, great job on that Lionel... 

One question, would greater detail in certain parts as in rivets or bolts be unheard of? maybe a silver to highlight things or were the old trains always black and silver with little detail?

Jonesy


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Saxon said:


> That looks great Big Ed, and no I have not airbrushed before but have a great friend i used to share a studio with in another life who I saw airbrush a million times.
> 
> Again, great job on that Lionel...
> 
> ...


I thought of that too, I think most were just all black or whatever color it was.
Though TJ has a thread of some tin cars he painted the rivets on with a sharpie pen. He will dig up the thread for you, I think, he knows right where it is.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Fantastic, Thanks again mate, I will look for the post later... I like a lot of detail in our buildings, I would think the trains would show more life if they were highly detailed but then again, that is not too "original" or life like.

We will try and do what is right, and what is right for us. :O)

Jonesy


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Saxon said:


> Fantastic, Thanks again mate, I will look for the post later... I like a lot of detail in our buildings, I would think the trains would show more life if they were highly detailed but then again, that is not too "original" or life like.
> 
> We will try and do what is right, and what is right for us. :O)
> 
> Jonesy



Here is one,

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3847


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*Manual*

Ed, it's here. For the FLyer Service manul just scroll down the first page and find the link.


02188 Franklin diagram page 23 0n the manual page


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Jonesy,
For prewar AF look at the Olsen Library.

For parts becuase the question is coming. Olsen's or Port Line Hobby. Prewar is harder to get parts and I cannot vouche for their inventory.

Your pictures are great but you should just link them from photobucket or so. The attachments are impossible to find again after you get many of them.

With Photo bucket I can even change the pictures out without loggin in here. Often I add graphics for technical clarity.

I also link back to the photos because I do not post all of them here. If there is an interest they can visit and view more.

Just a suggestion.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

Your Fanklin is S gage not O. You may want to check that out. 

Bob


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

T-Man... Bob,

Thanks for the great info. The Franklin underbelly looked a lot different and I was wondering if I was missing a piece. Now I know the difference and what to look out for.. as I said, I am about as fresh to Trains as one can get and thank you and this community for your gracious assistance.

I would have eventually gotten around to asking about parts, thanks for the connect. The Olsen Library is great. I think I have correctly Identified mine as a 1936 2-4-2 O scale Though It is missing the Guide wheels and the trail wheels are shot to hell. Also, it looks as though mine has had a botch job attempted repair done... This will be remedied as I strip this one to the core and rebuild it.

Oh.. forgot one thing.. I have never had a need to use photobucket or anything of the sort so will check into that now. Didnt know the pics were an issue so will work to remedy that... who says an old (or mid aged) dog cant learn new tricks :O0 

Thanks again lads, your the best.

Jonesy


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Ed, it's here. For the Flyer Service manual just scroll down the first page and find the link.
> 
> 
> 02188 Franklin diagram page 23 0n the manual page



On the Home page.

Duh....how did I miss that?hwell:


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

I was wrong... It is the 1932-3 2-4-2


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The photo idea will pay off in the long run, I have a 1000 attachments and it is a long process to find a picture to reuse. WIth Photo bucket they are all in albums and much easier to find. At least you are off to a good start. If anything we save you time.

Photobucket also resizes the picture. The attachments I had to adjust using paint. More time saved.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

The Tender for the 1932-3 is actually for the 1936 I mentioned earlier. What a bloody mess... Oh well ... Guess one gets what one pays for these days :O) 

As for Photobucket... Thanks Bob, Not had time to jump on it yet but will as soon as I get half a minute.

Thanks again mate,

Jonesy


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Just think of the hobby as a fishing tournament. If you need a different tender one will show up for sale sometime. You should try to find some train shows in your area. That is when the fish start leaping!


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Good idea Bob, thanks... I know they just had one here in Nashville but I was overseas at the time and missed it. Will have to check the surrounding areas or try and get on a few mailing lists for up-coming shows.

I will check with the other Lionel purchases I made this last year and see what is in there.

Cheers,

Jonesy


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Guys,

Touching base quickly on my end ...

Ed -- good find with the Mikes Trains matched paint.

Port Lines is the big AF parts supplier ... http://www.portlines.com/

Jeff Kane at the Train Tender has some AF parts, too ... www.ttender.com

Olsens ... http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/default.htm

Jonesy, as for the question of whether to add more detail during a restoration. Two schools of thought here: 1) sure, go for it ... add more character to the train. 2) sacrilege! ... the train should be restored as authentic to it's original form as possible. No right or wrong answer, of course ... it's your train, and you should do what makes you happy. On my restoration attempts, I've followed both paths ... some are quite close to original form (materials, colors, etc.), while others (like my Elvis clone!) clearly deviate from the original product.

I think this might be your prewar AF O, from Olsen's online library:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/b123/000115.pdf

Regards,

TJ


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

TJ, Yup thats the one. I had come across it earlier today. Thanks a million.

As for to detail or not to detail ... that is a tough question as I still have not decided whether or not an O scale will ultimately end up at my office or if I will turn around and sell the Os... the more I work with the Os the more apt I am to keep it and build an O at the office while the kids get the HO for the Train Room. 

I dont have it apart or stripped yet so will decide on that avenue when the time comes.

Thanks again TJ.. all of you,

Jonesy


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Jonesy,welcome to the forum and to American Flyer! I run S scale AF, the two-rail variety that's about halfway in size between your O gauge and HO (which actually means Half of O). Here's a couple of good sites for repair information on AF stuff: 

http://www.portlines.com/afrepairclinics.htm

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual


Jim "Stillakid" or T-Man would be your best sources for information on painting AF stuff. Best wishes,


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Thanks Reckers,

The lads have been most helpful. These links will help greatly.  

SO the Half of an O would be the S???? 

cheers mate 

jonesy


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Half of O is HO (literally "half of O").

Halfway between O and HO is S (more or less).

TJ


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Ah ... at least now i know... Thanks TJ ... I could never quite figure out WTF with these things. I wont even ask why the S exists other than O being too big and HO being too small ... though I would always have thought in for a penny in for a pound as it were... 

One learns something new every day  Finally I have something I can try and sound smarter than my son with when it comes to trains  

Thanks TJ

Jonesy


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## jreid (May 9, 2011)

I have some American Flyer S, most post war Am Flyer was S I believe. Two rail too


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Good to meet your acquaintance Jried. I have been finding this is the case with a recent purchase. I will definitely not be running S scale so have decided today to fix up the S scale train I have and sell it. It is a good learning piece however and I do want to have it look great before I let it leave... 

Jonesy


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Saxon, S scale came about as a way to compete with the model trains giant, Lionel, and Marx. S scale is a very common scale for modelers, and is actually the same scale as slot racing and Matchbox/Hot Wheels type cars (car HO is not the same as train HO). A. C. Gilbert bought a small company called American Flyer Trains and developed it, producing O, HO, and S scale. S scale is unique in that it focused on accurate scale reproduction of the cars and locomotives: that is why it's referred to as a scale, rather than a gauge. Gauge, incidentally, is a measurement of the distance between the rails of the track. S scale's selling points were it's accuracy in reproduction, having two rails instead of three, and being smaller so it (in theory) required less room to operate.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Again ... more information I had no idea about, Thanks Reckers. I was under the impression that HO was scaled, obviously mistaken, but glad to have the correct information.

Many thanks mate,

Jonesy


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Much (but not all) of HO is scaled reasonably realistically. That's not the case with traditional prewar/postwar O (Lionel, Marx) ... those mfr's altered proportions of real-life locos and cars significantly to yield a model that could fit and operate on relatively small track radii. That said, some newer O lines (Lionel included) do offer true-scale modeling.

You might enjoy (or get further confused by!) this thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5126

TJ


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## jreid (May 9, 2011)

Thus the ever so controversial battle between "models" and "toys" I for one am not bothered by being accused of playing with toys, but many other adults are. One has to admit though that the toy-like charm of the tinplate and pre-war trains is irresistible.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

As stated in the past, I got the train bug as a method to bond with my boy. One thing I have not been too concerned of is the Scale or Guage thing... I dont get it so much as I feel as though, even as children, we see a train go by and it is a monumental beast that is above all things human... (then I saw my first Jumbo Jet and trains went by the wayside :O) ). needless to say, and I am not sure if I am a minority or committing some kind of sacrilege (hence my questions earlier regarding further detail on a loco) if I say that close is ok as most would not know the difference anyway, and quite frankly, this is for my kids (who am i kidding.. its just as much for me now  ) and the closest thing they have come to a real train set up is the Steamer at Dollywood last week. Great old steamer and all black with a bit of silver on the nose. Am I wrong on this or are there more differing opinions that should stick to scale or authentic paint? If this were the case, most authentic paint these days would have to be littered with graffiti of all manner.

opinions??????

Jonesy


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Jonesy, it's time to introduce you to Model railroading Rule #1. Rule #1 states: "It's your layout: the only opinion that matters is your own. If others offer advice or suggestions, listen politely, nod sagely, and then do whatever you feel like. Yours is the only opinion that matters." 
That applies to the folks on this site, as well. You bought the train and it's yours: if you want to paint it pink and cover it with Barbie decals, that is the right thing to do. I would ask that you not post pics of that, though: everyone will say it was my idea. *L* Seriously, though: do what you want with it---that's what makes this hobby fun.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

One more thing. *L* I live north of you, in Louisville. If you drive north to New Haven Kentucky (just south of Bardstown), you'll find this place: http://www.kyrail.org/ You can take the kids for a train ride! If you look at the schedule, they run L&N 152 several times a year: an operating steam engine, big and black, smoking, steaming, wheezing and hissing. It's a great experience!


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

Just for you reckers ... I will have my 6 year old paint one up :O) At least a caboose and maybe a gondola so barbie can sit in it...  

Thanks for the candid advice.. .I just know from being into aircraft building for so many years, a lot of the old timers with a spitfire would load real ammo and shoot you out of the sky for having something less authentic  

Jonesy


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Understood. There's pretty much room for everyone in Model railroading---those who strive for total authenticity are usually referred to as "rivet counters". I respect it, just as I would the collector who's holy grail is a car or locomotive that has never been out of the box, is part of a limited production run and so on: there's room for all of us. That said, this is a relatively sane forum and those who need to make rules for everyone else tend to move on pretty quickly.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Jonesy, 
Just wanted to reaffirm Reckers comment on Rules, It's yours and if someone doesn't like it tell them to go float a boat!:laugh:
I am an HO nut, but I respect and admire the qualities of all scales!
HO and little hands or old eyes make it tough to work with, but some kids (Young and Old) just love how real they look, and by far the largest amount of trains and equipment are made in HO scale!
O and S are great little hand and old eyes type of trains, Though they lack the realism, "more toy like" but it's all in the eye of the owner!
S is IMHO they toughest scale to get into! You'll have to search for what you want everywhere.
O is great and can go either direction old school, most do that, or new electronic route. Same with HO too.
So there are a lot of choices to be had and none of them right or wrong!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

jreid said:


> Thus the ever so controversial battle between "models" and "toys" I for one am not bothered by being accused of playing with toys, but many other adults are. One has to admit though that the toy-like charm of the tinplate and pre-war trains is irresistible.


I said it before...THEY ARE ALL TOYS!



Reckers said:


> Jonesy, it's time to introduce you to Model railroading Rule #1. Rule #1 states: "It's your layout: the only opinion that matters is your own. If others offer advice or suggestions, listen politely, nod sagely, and then do whatever you feel like. Yours is the only opinion that matters."
> That applies to the folks on this site, as well. You bought the train and it's yours: if you want to paint it pink and cover it with Barbie decals, that is the right thing to do. I would ask that you not post pics of that, though: everyone will say it was my idea. *L* Seriously, though: do what you want with it---that's what makes this hobby fun.


Hmm, pink with Barbie stickers :supergay:

Alien green sounds better.:laugh:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

jreid said:


> One has to admit though that the toy-like charm of the tinplate and pre-war trains is irresistible.


Amen to that, brother!

I also just wanted to add a thumbs-up to Reck's nice comments above re: Rule #1. I completely concur. Ohh ... I'll offer biased opinions from time to time, but Rule #1 should always influence the modeler the most!

Ohh ... and Ed ... level with us, OK? You have one of those 1957 pink Lionel sets stashed away in your most treasured closet, don't you? You open the door and drool over it every now and then, right??? 

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Amen to that, brother!
> 
> I also just wanted to add a thumbs-up to Reck's nice comments above re: Rule #1. I completely concur. Ohh ... I'll offer biased opinions from time to time, but Rule #1 should always influence the modeler the most!
> 
> ...


I wish I did, they are worth some bucks now.

No, but Len gave me an ideal.

Take an old Scout and tender paint it up pink with Barbie stickers, for my train Buddie, my niece, to run for a Christmas present.:thumbsup:

I still have plenty Scouts for an Alien green train.


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## Saxon (Sep 4, 2011)

hahahahaha ... I have to admit ... one has to love it here  thanks for making me feel really welcome guys ... I think I am going to enjoy things here  

and Ed... was serious about my daughter painting one up for you  

Jonesy


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Ohh ... and Ed ... level with us, OK? You have one of those 1957 pink Lionel sets stashed away in your most treasured closet, don't you? You open the door and drool over it every now and then, right???
> 
> TJ


Yea....come on Ed....let your secret out of the closet :supergay:

:laugh:


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Scott, that is one poorly-kept secret! *LOL* Hey Jonesy, one other thing you should know: S scale people tend to pick on O gaugers, particularly Lionel runners. It's because we secretly resent the availability of their repair parts!


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