# American Flyer engine kicking into neutral



## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

Hi all, here again with another question - really hoping to get my trains running well before the family convenes for Christmas. I let my dad know I finally got 'his' train set running again (his engine is likely a lost cause). I thought he wouldn't care, he never seemed too interested. Come to find out he is excited, when he was young his father had built him a big layout table with several viewing/operating holes, and that he actually enjoyed the trains as well as enjoying destroying them! Always fun to find another connection with dad...
So on to my latest question... I have now run my trains twice, once I set up a fun layout on the carpet, and the latest is a simple loop around the Christmas tree. My 300AC is the only one I want to run on this loop as my 21 month old likes to 'help'.  When running the engine, I have several points in the track where the engine stops. I figured out it is kicking into neutral, even close to the pickups (I have 2 set up). I can run it with the reverse unit locked pretty well, but am also having link coupler issues, so I would like to be able to keep the reverse unit unlocked. I do still need to clean my track which is next on the list, but I am wondering if this will just keep happening running unsecured track on a wood floor, or if I am missing something? Going to find a scotchbrite pad now.  I did find an old thread on couplers, and I have a lot of cleaning, lubing, removal of mold release film, and adjusting to do... And here I thought once I got the engines running and reverse units operating that I would be done! 
Thanks and have a wonderful weekend!
TimmyD


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The engine will only cycle from forward to neutral when there is a loss of power to the coil of the reverse unit. The two wires from the tender to the engine could be loose or have partially broken wire strands. It is almost always dirty track, wheels, or axle wipers. If these are all good then verify the wheel gauge is correct by sliding a dime between the backs of the wheels. If gauge is good the verify the tender truck frames are not twisted or torqued causing one wheel to not make continuous contact with the track. This can be a common problem with sheet metal trucks. make sure the insulator that is part of the truck assembly that is riveted to the chassis. I use an Ohm meter and move the truck to verify there are no intermittent shorts.


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> The engine will only cycle from forward to neutral when there is a loss of power to the coil of the reverse unit. The two wires from the tender to the engine could be loose or have partially broken wire strands. It is almost always dirty track, wheels, or axle wipers. If these are all good then verify the wheel gauge is correct by sliding a dime between the backs of the wheels. If gauge is good the verify the tender truck frames are not twisted or torqued causing one wheel to not make continuous contact with the track. This can be a common problem with sheet metal trucks. make sure the insulator that is part of the truck assembly that is riveted to the chassis. I use an Ohm meter and move the truck to verify there are no intermittent shorts.


Thanks Tom!
As I said I am first suspecting the track, and I did just repair one of my wires from tender that was completely severed, I should have just replaced it but I like the cloth insulation better than a solid color like all the wire I currently have access to.  I will check the trucks next. I am a little confused about the guage between the wheels? If I try to slide a dime (flat) between the two wheels on a tender axle, they are not quite spaced far enough to pass the dime. Is that what you meant? 
I will run it later on cleaned track and see how things go... The lions share of my track hasn't seen the light of day for 60 years.
Thanks again,
TimmyD


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

You have it correct. Here is a picture of a properly scaled truck with the dime. Gilbert track will usually forgive wheels very slightly under the correct gauge but not if too wide. Too narrow can cause power dropouts.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I neglected to add that the best way to spread the wheels on the axles is with snap ring pliers.


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> You have it correct. Here is a picture of a properly scaled truck with the dime. Gilbert track will usually forgive wheels very slightly under the correct gauge but not if too wide. Too narrow can cause power dropouts.
> 
> View attachment 572594


Tom,
Forgive my ignorance, but how should I go about regaging, just with a dime? Thanks again! TimmyD


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> I neglected to add that the best way to spread the wheels on the axles is with snap ring pliers.


Thansk! That was my next question! Time to head back out to the garage.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The tender trucks appear to be about 1/10" too narrow. They will work but it is better to have them accurately gauged.


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

Thank you for your help! My engine is working much better after cleaning the track with a scotchbrite, adding track clips, and gaging the wheels! That said, It seems my tender is leaning occasionally, and that my pickup wheels both come off the track. This is a 300AC pulling a couple of passenger cars, so a small load, but heavy compared with my freight cars. They seem to have a fair amount of rolling resistance, I plan on taking the trucks apart on those and seeing what I can do to lube them up, 3 in 1 hasn't seemed to help, but I haven't removed the wheels yet to clean them either. Is there a resource you could point me to or a procedure I should follow to correct the truck lifting issue? 

Timmy D


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Is the tender lifting in the curves??.. It could be your wires going to the engine from the tender are causing the tender to lift because of possible stiffness of the wires. We all use 22 gauge super flex wire for our connections. Also make sure you have the large tender weight in the shell, you MUST have it as the tender is very light...Also check the trucks on the tender for free movement..And check all the trucks and wheel sets on those passenger cars you're trying to pull. What I do is to pull the wheels out of the trucks, and clean the bee-jeepers out of them.. Also check for cat/dog hair/string, or any other gunk that could be in the truck holes or on the end of the axles.Just think, if you're pulling 2 passenger cars, you have 16 points of possible dirt/binding issues that can cause you fits. I had a 302 that was giving me fits, it kept loosing contact with the rails, electrically-wise. The truck/axle holes were so full of compacted crude, the trucks weren't getting any electrical contact with the rails. Spray some contact cleaner into the axle holes to clean them out of any grease,etc. I use CRC contact cleaner, the NON-Flammable version. Don't get it on anything else, plastic -wise. It won't hurt link couplers but will eat knuckle couplers up in a minute..Don't get it on your painted car bodies, it will eat the paint off, and alcohol will do the same thing.I just ruined a very nice 651 REA car by accidently hitting the end with some alcohol.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

TimmyD said:


> Thank you for your help! My engine is working much better after cleaning the track with a scotchbrite, adding track clips, and gaging the wheels! That said, It seems my tender is leaning occasionally, and that my pickup wheels both come off the track. This is a 300AC pulling a couple of passenger cars, so a small load, but heavy compared with my freight cars. They seem to have a fair amount of rolling resistance, I plan on taking the trucks apart on those and seeing what I can do to lube them up, 3 in 1 hasn't seemed to help, but I haven't removed the wheels yet to clean them either. Is there a resource you could point me to or a procedure I should follow to correct the truck lifting issue?
> 
> Timmy D


What kind of passenger cars, plastic or aluminum?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Flyernut beat me to it, he has it all in his reply. I put a medium weight oil on the axle ends when reassembling.
I assume you are pulling the 650/651 New Haven cars. A 300 should easily pull 5 of these cars on the level when all the cars are clean and lubricated.
If you want to do some mods and pull longer trains Ed Goldin (goldinhands.com) sells kits to convert the Gilbert trucks to needle point axles. I have never converted any because keeping the Gilbert trucks clean and lubed has always been adequate. Carl Tuveson (tuveson.com) went a different direction on his layout. Carl replaced all the Gilbert trucks/couplers with American Models trucks.


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## TimmyD (Dec 6, 2021)

Thanks all! The cars are likely new haven, plastic body but repainted so I can't tell you for sure. They have frosted windows and are lit. They are rather heavy, and I will take the trucks appart and clean them then relube this week. 
My problem with the truck lifting turned out to be that I botched my fix on a bad tender wire. It broke right at the bullet connector, so I got as much of the old wire out of the bullet connector as I could, then soldered it back together (shorter wire), and used some heat shrink to try and add extra support. This made for too long of a connector, and too short of a wire. I have now temporarily fixed it by running all new wire to some bullet connectors I found kicking around, but they are a little small, and the wire is probably 18 ga. It appears I will be puting in an order for some link couple pins, maybe some link couplers, and I will add some cloth wire and bullet connectors. I am still having some issues just because the connector doesn't sit firmly, maybe also because of the thicker wire, but it is VASTLY improved. 
We had a few kids over Saturday night and they had fun with it even though it is still finnicky. I am glad I just had the 300AC out, because it definitely took a little abuse! That said, I imagine the little engine is enjoying seeing the light of day after decades in an attic. I am grateful for all the help, and hoping to see a smile on my old man's face and a twinkle in his eye when he sees the train running again, even if it is a different locomotive. 
Thanks!
Tim


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Sounds like you are learning about these old Flyers. And having fun.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

TimmyD said:


> Thanks all! The cars are likely new haven, plastic body but repainted so I can't tell you for sure. They have frosted windows and are lit. They are rather heavy, and I will take the trucks appart and clean them then relube this week.
> My problem with the truck lifting turned out to be that I botched my fix on a bad tender wire. It broke right at the bullet connector, so I got as much of the old wire out of the bullet connector as I could, then soldered it back together (shorter wire), and used some heat shrink to try and add extra support. This made for too long of a connector, and too short of a wire. I have now temporarily fixed it by running all new wire to some bullet connectors I found kicking around, but they are a little small, and the wire is probably 18 ga. It appears I will be puting in an order for some link couple pins, maybe some link couplers, and I will add some cloth wire and bullet connectors. I am still having some issues just because the connector doesn't sit firmly, maybe also because of the thicker wire, but it is VASTLY improved.
> We had a few kids over Saturday night and they had fun with it even though it is still finnicky. I am glad I just had the 300AC out, because it definitely took a little abuse! That said, I imagine the little engine is enjoying seeing the light of day after decades in an attic. I am grateful for all the help, and hoping to see a smile on my old man's face and a twinkle in his eye when he sees the train running again, even if it is a different locomotive.
> Thanks!
> Tim


VERY common problem when you do this fix, I still do it after 30-some years,lol...If you order from Jeff Kane, you can get the price of the pins down to .45 cents apiece if you buy them in bulk,(20 min). Usually they're .75 cents apiece.He also has the repo link couplers, very nice piece. I believe the link coupler tool is around $15 dollars, but you need it to do a correct installation. There are some on ebay you can buy with coupler and the tool, (not sure about the pins), but somewhat pricey in my opinion. I bought my tool from Doug Peck at PortLines years ago, another great asset to our hobby.


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