# lionel cattle car 3656



## servoguy

I have some great news for anyone that has one of the cattle cars. It probably also applies to the horse car.

In 1955 or thereabouts, I bought a new cattle car. Memory says it cost $15 which was a lot for a Jr High school kid. I was very disappointed because it didn't work even though it was new. Over the years, I have accumulated some more cattle cars and cattle pens. I thought I had 4 cars and 3 pens, but I may have more than that. On Christmas day, I tried to get two of them to work to show my great grandkids. No dice. So, after thinking about the problem for a while, I came upon a solution to fix these cars.

First was to go to Skycraft (skycraftparts.com) in Winter Park, Florida, to get some small springs and some 4-40 screws and some e clips. the e clips were for a few cars that had lost their trucks. The 4-40 screws were for some cars that had lost the screws that hold the shells on. The springs were to replace those stupid rubber grommets that Lionel used to hold the walkways in place. The rubber grommets are too stiff, and after a few years, they get hard like bricks. Further, some wizard had used double sided tap to glue down the walkways making vibration essentially impossible. The springs are tapered coils, one end being larger than the other. They are about a quarter of an inch high. I am away from home now, so I can't put a caliper on the wire diameter nor give you the number of turns. The springs cost 50 cents each. There is only one bin at Skycraft with a spring that fits this description, so you might be able to describe the spring and get them to mail you some.

I removed all the old double sided tape and grommets. I scratched the paint off of the locations where the grommets were so I could glue the springs in place. I used some JB Quick. In the car, I glued the springs in small end down because they went into a recess in the car platform. (BTW, take the shell off of the car before you do this, but do not disassemble anything else.) 

After the JB set, I made a few other suitable modifications. The corners of the cattle pen platform had a problem with the cattle getting stuck in the corners away from the car. I bent the lip on the platform to make the sharp 45 deg corners round. I put a couple of tie wraps on the fence around the pen to constrain the platform from rotating too far. I removed the gates and bent the springs down so the gates would stay in position. I bent the outer lip of the walkway inside the car outward so it would contact the inside of the car shell and keep the walkway from rotating. The last adjustment was to bend the tabs on the movable gang planks to align them with the walkway in the car. 

The cattle will now move around the pen and the car for more than 20 minutes without a problem unless my great grandkids kick the track. 

There are several types of cattle, some of which are not usable. One that I have is hard plastic and the fingers on the bottom are too hard to work. I have a white one that is missing a finger and so falls over easily. The hard plastic one is also missing the same finger.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You should go into business selling springs for cattle cars.


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## Big Ed

Or retrofitting the old ones.

Thanks for taking the time for the tutorial.:thumbsup:


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## servoguy

I am thinking of buying a few more because once people discover that they can be made to work, the price may go up.


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## x_doug_x

I have one I was about to list on ebay. I don't know if it works, but it's in good physical condition. I have the cattle car, platform and I think 5 cattle. Interested?


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## servoguy

How much?


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## Dave Sams

Cool! Some day, when I run out of projects on my table, I'm going to get some springs. 

Good idea, thanks for sharing.


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## x_doug_x

Would 40 shipped be too much?

I'll get some pics uploaded tomorrow


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## Dave Sams

Servobuddy

We don't have Skyparts here, how about a photo of the spring you used?

Thanks


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## servoguy

The spring:

free length = 0.2"
wire diameter = 0.020"
diameter at small end = 0.26
diameter at large end = 0.38

The ones I used are conical springs, although a straight spring should work OK.


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## servoguy

Should have added the number of turns to the above parameter list = 3


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## Dave Sams

Thanks, I can work with that.

I recall mine has springs, but a new set will probably improve the performance (I hope).


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## BigAl56

A photo would help.


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## sjm9911

I left my micrometer at work! (I don't actually have one) . Pictures would be nice so I can grasp the idea better! I want to try this, in fact I just bought a junker to try the idea out on.


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## servoguy

You can buy a dial caliper at Harbor Freight for less than $10. It is well worth the money. While you are there, if you don't have a meter, buy their cheap meter for less than $10. I bought two of them at Christmas for $2 ea. on sale.


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## sjm9911

Cool, now we're talking. I have a starting point. ( and I've bought a fewof those mmeters after you're recommendation in the past, you even showed me how to use them)


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## walter

This may help in repairing. Fixed, repaired 1/2 dozen now. Found washers, screws, posts, usually on E-Bay.


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## Norm

First was to go to Skycraft (skycraftparts.com) in Winter Park, Florida, to get some small springs

Servoguy, any idea where SkyCraft lists these springs? :dunno:

Do you know anywhere else a small quantity can be gotten???

Thanks,
Norm


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## servoguy

I don't think Skycraft lists them. They have about a million parts for sale, and listing all of them would be quite a project. You can buy small springs from McMaster Carr. I used springs that were tapered, but that isn't necessary. The tapered springs are $5 from McMaster. Straight springs should be cheaper.


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## T-Man

Are they like the springs in a AA or AAA battery box?


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## servoguy

The battery springs may be too stiff. check the dimensions of the spring I used. It is in my post.


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## rkenney




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## Norm

T-Man & Servoguy....... battery springs....... that was what I was thinking. I did find something close on-line but prices started @ $1.25 each plus S&H. I stopped there.

I have a few small LED flashlights that have a 3-cell AAA battery pack. 

Today as I working on one of the battery packs I noticed the springs were probably close enough to work. 

Now if I can just find one that I can't repair than I will have my springs to try.

Thanks,
Norm


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## ColtsKurt

Norm said:


> T-Man & Servoguy....... battery springs....... that was what I was thinking. I did find something close on-line but prices started @ $1.25 each plus S&H. I stopped there.
> 
> 
> Norm


Wait... you're into trains and $1.25 + S&H is too expensive? No social comment here, but that doesn't compute...


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## rkenney

ColtsKurt said:


> Wait... you're into trains and $1.25 + S&H is too expensive? No social comment here, but that doesn't compute...


You're obviously from the wrong generation.:dunno:


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## ColtsKurt

I dunno, Bob... I'm 57. But I've not found a doggone thing about this toy train-thing that is reasonably priced. Maybe its because I do PW O only... but $1.25+ for something that would make a piece that doesn't work come back to life seems like a bargain!


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## rkenney

ColtsKurt said:


> I dunno, Bob... I'm 57. But I've not found a doggone thing about this toy train-thing that is reasonably priced. Maybe its because I do PW O only... but $1.25+ for something that would make a piece that doesn't work come back to life seems like a bargain!


I'm in agreement with you in part. 

I'm 57 myself, but I remember a time when you could buy all kinds of stuff at the local hardware for peanuts. As kids we scrimped and saved, as did our parents, and pooled our funds (pennies) to build that rope swing with the discarded tire, the go cart with the baby coach wheels, etc.

Been in business a few years and I can tell you the markup (profit margin) on those little insignificant springs is 1000% or more. 

The real irony is that they come from China which helps their economy while the excessive markup over here is destroying ours. That and the fact that far too many regulations prevent us from manufacturing over here to begin with.


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## servoguy

Lionel stuff is cheaper now than when I was a kid. The new stuff is about the same price accounting for inflation. But used stuff? Very cheap. When I was a kid, 022 switches cost $11. I have bought more than a hundred and didn't pay that much for any of them. O-31 track was 35 cents in 1950, now you can buy used track for $1 or less. I bought 39 Lionel cars for $70 recently. Most were $1 each. A dealer need to clean out his stock of used Lionel stuff. If you want post war stuff that is NIB, you are going to pay large $$$ for it. Used stuff that has a few scratches and ding is what I buy as i am an operator, not a collector. I do have some collectible stuff, though. I bought it to keep and not run, but recently, I am running it because the price hasn't gone up very much in 40 years.


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## rkenney

servoguy said:


> Lionel stuff is cheaper now than when I was a kid.


We're not talkin' about lionel stuff! We're talkin' about the cheap little springs for $1.25 apiece. Don't you read the posts?

Personally I recommend against using those springs because there are no Material Data Safety sheets! No data sheets - no use.


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## Norm

ColtsKurt said:


> I dunno, Bob... I'm 57. But I've not found a doggone thing about this toy train-thing that is reasonably priced. Maybe its because I do PW O only... but $1.25+ for something that would make a piece that doesn't work come back to life seems like a bargain!


Coltskurt..... you missed the key letters..... S&H..... which could bring the order to well over $150 or so for something I want to "TRY".

And.....No guarantee

Norm
ps, only 57..... your still a kid, when you become of age you might see life differently..... :smilie_auslachen:


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## ColtsKurt

Norm said:


> Coltskurt..... you missed the key letters..... S&H..... which could bring the order to well over $150 or so for something I want to "TRY".
> 
> And.....No guarantee
> 
> Norm
> ps, only 57..... your still a kid, when you become of age you might see life differently..... :smilie_auslachen:


gotcha. Still a kid... Between the ears, maybe!


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## clayman

This topic seems to generate a lot of discussion: I have a bit different problem on this topic: All of the concerns focus on the platform and getting it to vibrate correctly. My issue is with the car itself. The corral platform shakes fine, the rail car is the weak link. 

I came across a set recently that is in pretty good shape. As mentioned somewhere in this string or elsewhere, all of my washers are deteriorated and gone as well and yet, I too, believe it operates better without them. Before I go in all guns and blazes into the car, I want to know if there are any minor tweeks I can make to avoid taking off the plunger pin and seeing what is happening. I am getting contact with my shoes on the outside rails. I just am not getting any action. Also, can someone detail me the actions of the twin doors themselves? Mine seem to only go down about 7/8 of the way. My K-line manual describes reaming out the holes where the side pins go, but I am not read to take that step yet. 

I leave it to the Masters to help me get them doggies rollin'.


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## Togatown

Not to sidetrack Clayman's question but I am having a bear of a time fastening the track down to the corral platform. I just cannot get the track into that tiny upper notch on the inside edge. It doesn't seem to want to go down past the "O" gauge blade holder. Thinking about squeezing the track rails somehow with pliers. Any ideas?


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## sjm9911

I would bend the outside peice out a bit. I put the outermost rail in first then push down on the inside rail . I tried my beat up one and it works better like that. Persuading the rails a bit might work too. And make sure you use two tracks!


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## servoguy

Clayman, did you read my post on how to get the cattle car and pen to work? I modified two of them according to my post, and the work perfectly. 

I bought my first cattle car new before I was old enough to drive a car. It was probably 1955. I was very disappointed when it didn't work very well. I have 4 pens now, and two are modified.


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## Bill carlson

servoguy, great posts on this I am too restoring a 3656.. What did you do with the rubber pad on the armature did you use a spring there as well? Also can you provide more details on the tie wraps you used.


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## servoguy

The armature should be rigidly attached to the walk way of the pen. The coil is attached to the pen itself. I don't remember exactly where the pads were. My pens are in storage right now, and I don't know if I can find one to answer your question.


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## Bill carlson

*4th pad (or spring) on corral*

Servoguy,

There are 3 pads on the top of the corral (that the corral floor sits on) that you replaced with 1/4" spring (or therabouts). 

The 4th pad to which I refer is what the adjustment screw contacts on the plate with the plunger on it that gets sucked into the coil and vibrates the platform. it adjusts the cam of the plate and also controls (I have found) the ram height to adjust to the car and platform. 

I'm assuming you either did not fiddle with this or just used the rubber pad.

I've also heard of good results using a hole puncher and old mouse pads about 1/2" thick - cheaper than replacement pads anyway. I'm planning on trying both springs and mouse pads - will let you know what works best... Right now just fiddling with car (took out plunger to stretch plunger spring and adjust door spring) to get the doors to work right - this is indeed a finicky beast. Going to go with pads on the car and springs on the platform. 

My corral is a newer one that does not have the 4 grommets on the sides of the corral base as shown in the service manual - not sure if one type works better or worse than the other. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## Bill carlson

*Correction to previous post ($th pad in corral)*

Correction - the 4th pad is on the counterweight plate and contacts the adjustment screw - it has a plunger that gets sucked into the coil that drops the ramps on the corral. The corral floor also has a plunger on it that gets sucked into the coil and vibrates.

But you all knew what I meant


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## Wood

Posted to wrong thread. Sorry


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