# Lionel O-Scale 682 locomotive runs better backwards than forward



## slapsam101 (Dec 30, 2015)

My lionel train runs better backwards than forwards all of a sudden. It goes really really fast backwards, and can barely go forward with full throttle. One night the train was running forwards very well, and then in the morning the next day it could barely move forward. Any ideas? I can provide any pictures or videos if you need them to help solve the problem. Thank


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Please also provide more details about make, model, type of power (conventional or command).


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## slapsam101 (Dec 30, 2015)

*I have a zw 275 watt transformer*

I have a zw 275 watt transformer, Lionel O-Scale 682 locomotive, and use regular 1950s lionel track that uses a lockon clip to give it power, also my other trains run just fine on the same track


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

If it's reduction gear drive try slowly turning the drive wheels by hand, don't force. Look to make sure the connecting rods and coupling rods are free to move.


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## slapsam101 (Dec 30, 2015)

highvoltage said:


> If it's reduction gear drive try slowly turning the drive wheels by hand, don't force. Look to make sure the connecting rods and coupling rods are free to move.
> 
> View attachment 264913


They have always been free to move


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Some locos are like this as they get old and wear. Things stretch depending on the way the motor spins and parts are stressed, what binds one way doesn't another. It's probably just that simple. Might try going through the whole thing and tightening up every screw and bolt. It might help, or not.


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## slapsam101 (Dec 30, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Some locos are like this as they get old and wear. Things stretch depending on the way the motor spins and parts are stressed, what binds one way doesn't another. It's probably just that simple. Might try going through the whole thing and tightening up every screw and bolt. It might help, or not.


I did that before I made the post and it did not make a difference


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Check the wires inside, maybe one is loose. And causing less power to go to the motor? If its not the side rods, check to see if something is jammed up in the magnitraction. Other then that it might be a worn gear, so if the teeth are worn one way, forward it doesn't grip wright, going in reverse it uses the lesser used sides of the gear. Only ideas, may or may not help. Telodoc will see this and comment, he's got a lot of these you didn't take it apart recently or have it serviced, did you? If so a Bering or spacer might have gone missing


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's not uncommon for one of these AC motors to run better in one direction, especially as things wear. If the armature is moving laterally too much, that frequently causes this, I second the query about having it apart. Have you checked the brushes?


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## slapsam101 (Dec 30, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's not uncommon for one of these AC motors to run better in one direction, especially as things wear. If the armature is moving laterally too much, that frequently causes this, I second the query about having it apart. Have you checked the brushes?


Sorry, what are the brushes? And I Just took it apart and there are no disconnected wires


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## slapsam101 (Dec 30, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's not uncommon for one of these AC motors to run better in one direction, especially as things wear. If the armature is moving laterally too much, that frequently causes this, I second the query about having it apart. Have you checked the brushes?


I got it working right again. I checked the brushes and they were dirty thxs.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Good to hear. Glad you found the problem with the brushes, I didn't think of that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Did cleaning the brushes solve the issue?


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Did cleaning the brushes solve the issue?


I'm curious to hear that answer as well. Do brushes wear into a pattern? I suspect they do. Can the shape of that pattern restrict movement of the armature? I know it's a solid cylinder inside of an open cylinder but there is some play that might allow them to wear at a slight angle. I'm just trying to visualize all this.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, if the brush holders get dirty, sometimes the weak brush springs don't keep the brushes seated properly. Also, when the motor runs in one direction, the armature is pushed toward the brushes, in the opposite direction, it's pulled away from the brushes. That's the reason for checking the end play of the armature. It also explains why full sized brushes are sometimes critical to proper operation of the motor.

I'm pretty sure that locomotive would pull the armature away from the brushes in forward, which would account for the poor performance if the brushes were dirty or not long enough.


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

highvoltage said:


> I'm curious to hear that answer as well. Do brushes wear into a pattern? I suspect they do. Can the shape of that pattern restrict movement of the armature? I know it's a solid cylinder inside of an open cylinder but there is some play that might allow them to wear at a slight angle. I'm just trying to visualize all this.


Not to hijack thread, but I'm also curious. In tearing down my PW Burro Crane, I did notice that the brushes appear to be worn at a slight angle. As a result, I am going to replace them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Given the geometry of the commutator plate, it's obvious that unless the brush holders are not perpendicular, that they shouldn't be at an angle. However, they do have some play in the brush holders and most of the ones I see are angled slightly, only very slightly. I don't think it's necessary to replace them unless they're getting too short, the new ones will wear in the same manner. Once they take a "set", they'll stay in that position pretty much for life.


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Given the geometry of the commutator plate, it's obvious that unless the brush holders are not perpendicular, that they shouldn't be at an angle. However, they do have some play in the brush holders and most of the ones I see are angled slightly, only very slightly. I don't think it's necessary to replace them unless they're getting too short, the new ones will wear in the same manner. Once they take a "set", they'll stay in that position pretty much for life.


Thanks GRJ- Makes perfect sense, mine are worn ever so slightly, originally thought it might have just been an optical illusion.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Unless they give you problems, save your money.


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Unless they give you problems, save your money.


Since they seem to also fit my F-3 motors, I had bought a bag of 20 anyway,


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## slapsam101 (Dec 30, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Did cleaning the brushes solve the issue?


The brushes were dirty and i cleaned them and it worked great! Thanks!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Great, love success stories.


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