# HELP needed !!!



## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

Our central-Texas, small-town railroad museum has a small (4ft x 12ft) HO layout (classic DC) to help introduce our younger visitors to the hobby.

I need assistance to finish the scenery of the layout and perhaps put a small freight yard into part of the open center.

If you are willing to help, I believe this can be done in a weekend and maybe even a day if we have enough help.

Please contact me through private messaging for more info. We are a small non-profit (city owned) museum but we will gladly purchase all materials and can provide some monetary assistance with travel costs.

THANKS !!!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'd offer to help, but Texas is just too far away!

I hope you find some takers!!


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

Thanks.
We have airports here and everything !!!
:laugh:


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

BTW, we are located about 35 NW of Waco on Hwy 6 just in case you can't find Clifton.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

And I'm about 4 miles of CT Route 82 in East Haddam.... and we have lovely airports here, too. But that doesn't make it convenient enough, especially on (mostly) my nickel. Move your museum to SE Connecticut, and we'll talk!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I hate to ask, but do you know the grade on your track? Looking at that first picture, it seems like nearly all of your rise is within the 180-degree curve, and I'd estimate you have about 4" clearance under the bridge?


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

I don’t know the grade climb but it’s pretty steep. I’d guess maybe 4%. I’ll measure the bridge clearance when I get back to the museum in a couple of weeks.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*A day!?*



StevieWonder787 said:


> Our central-Texas, small-town railroad museum has a small (4ft x 12ft) HO layout (classic DC) to help introduce our younger visitors to the hobby.
> 
> I need assistance to finish the scenery of the layout and perhaps put a small freight yard into part of the open center.
> 
> ...


 StevieWonder;

Your notion that scenery, and/or a rail yard, will only take a weekend, or maybe only a day is; well, very optimistic at the least!

Most model railroads take years, often many years, to build. Granted, you're not starting from scratch, and trying to build the whole railroad. A good deal of it is already built. However, it would take a lot longer, several weeks at least, to do both the scenery and a yard. Quite possibly a good deal longer.

Adding more people may not speed things up. On the contrary, more than two, on a layout that small, are more likely to get in each other's way; rather than make the job shorter.

Good luck, I suspect you'll need it.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

Well, I know you're mostly right about the timeline, but I'm probably not looking for a scenery completion to the same level as you are thinking about.

I'd love to just finish up surface scenery on what we have ...

(a) grass on the low areas
(b) grass and a few small trees on the hills
(c) gravel finishing between the rails in the existing yard

My standards are probably a lot lower than yours for this project. I just want to cover bare spots on the board and spruce up some other spots.

Regarding the yard, I am talking about a junction off one siding with 3, maybe 4, short sidings to the left (open) side of the depot building. Just enough to "hide" some freight cars and be able to demo some switching operations. Again, nothing fancy. I can get the baseboard precut and install it had planned on using stock pre-built turnouts. That's a "wanna" project while I'm considering the scenery fill out as a "gotta" project. 

I can probably fund airfare, hotels and meals for somebody who might want to fly in and help for a few days. Even throw in a tour of the Temple depot which is also the records repository for the Santa Fe Historical Society.

Contact me if you're a possible volunteer and we can talk about it.

Thanks


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

I forgot to mention that we would, of course, provide all materials necessary.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Filling in the gaps*



StevieWonder787 said:


> Well, I know you're mostly right about the timeline, but I'm probably not looking for a scenery completion to the same level as you are thinking about.
> 
> I'd love to just finish up surface scenery on what we have ...
> 
> ...


StevieWonder;

Why not simply add the grass, trees and ballast("gravel") yourself, or with local labor? Using commercial scenery materials, it's not difficult at all. A simple book on scenery (I suggest the book "Basic Scenery" by Lou Sassi. ) from Kalmbach publishing https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books or even a couple of you-tube videos would be the only training needed. The ground-foam "grass" the trees, and the ballast/gravel materials can be bought through your local hobby shop, or from www.modeltrainstuff.com 
This would be much cheaper than flying somebody in and paying all their expenses.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

I understand it's not rocket science but I really don't want to develop (actually create) my scenery skills on this layout in the museum. Even though it might not be a highly skilled process, I don't want to chance screwing this up and end up with a mess that looks like a 5 year old (or 68 year old) did it without knowledgeable supervision. I'd rather fund a proper, skilled effort than save some bucks and end up spending money to try to salvage it from my poor effort.

There's probably a YouTube on brain surgery and I know there are many that can "teach" you how to fly, but I doubt you'd want to allow yourself to be operated on or fly you if their training was via YouTube. Not at the same level, but you get my drift.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Except those are silly analogies, because model railroad scenery is neither brain surgery nor flying. Most especially, no ones life depends on the outcome, and it is very easy to redo or touch up if the results are less than satisfactory. Scenery is very approachable by someone who is willing to try.

So go get a sheet of 2x8 extruded foam insulating panel, cut it into 4 2x2 panels, and make 4 miniature scenes. I think you will be surprised at how good a job you can do.
















That diorama was made for a school project, using my materials but with no guidance from me other than in the most general terms. He was 15 at the time, and had never done model railroad scenery before.

Beyond that, though, you have now introduced a new element into the equation by mandating that this is more than just helping to build a layout, but it is now subject to some quality standard and must look like a "skilled effort". There is no way I would agree to those terms, paid or not. Are you planning to audition helpers, or have them submit photos of their work?


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

I think you are spoiling for an argument by taking my desire to do this right the first time as being somehow unnecessarily unreasonable. I will apologize for not wanting this to end up having it look like a first-timer with a book and/or YouTube video, which is exactly what it would be. Skilled, by my apparently unreasonable standards, would pretty much mean a notch above a rank amateur's first time attempt. 

I'm sorry that you find that my quality target somehow offensive and deserving of belittlement and ridicule. I'm just looking for some kind soul with some experience, which is automatically above my skill level, and a willingness to help complete this project. I would have though on this forum that would be considered a compliment to those who have honed their skills, maybe with the kind assistance of somebody similar to who I am seeking. 

I don't really grasp why you are elevating this to some unreasonable standard to which "auditions" are either being requested or demanded; making me out to be some unreasonable, insensitive, unappreciative ogre. Nothing could be further from the truth. The single reason I wanted this to be a nice project was to attract new people to the hobby. I thought it was a noble, unselfish goal. Apparently not.

I thought the forum would embrace the concept of helping somebody with a special project for a good cause without ridiculing them. It seems like I was wrong. I'm sorry to have intruded and won't do so again.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Not spoiling for an argument at all -- although you certainly seem to have created one by your reaction. If I'm wrong in my assessment, feel free to say so. THAT'S the essence of online discourse, not getting your shorts in a wad and storming off in a huff.

I think you grossly misjudge the community, both here on the forum, and in the broader pool of modelers. We love to HELP, but since we're a do it yourself lot, we really don't respond well to those who seem unwilling to broaden their horizons and attempt new things. I notice that nowhere in your responses has any suggestion that being able to do this yourself, perhaps with some assistance and guidance from a more experienced person, is a viable option. I have shown you what a 15 year old can do unassisted on a fist time effort. Did you even read that part of my response? Because I was really looking for some recognition that maybe what you want isn't so far out of reach, especially with some practice first. I have seen newbies in clinics create some truly remarkable constructions.

But yes -- I am serious -- if this is not going to be a cooperative project with a group of like-minded individuals who are going to take ownership of the project, be part of the effort, and be responsible for ongoing maintenance and upgrades, then you need a professional (and they exist), not a well-meaning hobbyist ot two who you can throw under the bus if things don't turn out as you planned or wanted. I have seen that happen (sometimes with my own efforts) far too often. You use phrases like "getting it right the first time", and you don't think that's raising red flags that this exactly where your project is headed?

And you try to play the "good cause" card... for a "small town railroad museum". I am on the board of my local one, and it is wonderful that some of us are putting forth the effort to preserve this country's railroad history -- but not something that is going to get people standing in line to help. Our layout is maintained (along with other duties) by two full time employees who are also hobbyists. Try advertising and see if there isn't one in your area.


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

I've reread this thread from start to finish. I don't see where I started any kind of an argument. 

Webster's Dictionary says that "assistance" is defined as: t_o give support or aid to; help_:

I obviously assumed that asking for help, asking for assistance would automatically show that I wanted to be a part of it ... an assistant {1. a person who assists or gives aid and support; helper. 2. a person who is subordinate to another in rank, function, etc.; one holding a secondary rank in an office or post:}

If I just wanted hired help I can buy that. I wanted to assist, watch, learn, expand my personal knowledge for future use and not possibly screw up the museum's layout by going solo my first effort. I would do that at home, but not at the museum.

Throw under the bus? Seriously? What bus? Where in the heck did that come from? 

I've been involved in other hobbies. I've been on multiple forums regarding those hobbies. I've never had anyone ever do anything than offer unconditional help if they had some expertise or experience in the subject matter. Oh, and one of those is a motorhome, so I guess that's the bus you must be talking about.

Nice way to run a well-meaning, interested, sincere request for assistance into some kind of peeing contest. 

Thanks anyway. Have a great day. I'll find a real hobbyist who is genuinely interested in helping a rookie rather than bloviating about it.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

call these folks,
http://centramodrr.com/

and ask for help.

Ignore all other "DIY" advice.


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

Dennis461 said:


> call these folks,
> http://centramodrr.com/
> 
> and ask for help.
> ...


Thanks for the KIND reply.
I'm familiar with their beautiful depot building and will contact their group for help.

Thanks again.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Something for the Forum to consider? Having these small places post themselves for just information, for who may travel and visit them.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

StevieWonder787 said:


> I've reread this thread from start to finish. I don't see where I started any kind of an argument.
> 
> Webster's Dictionary says that "assistance" is defined as: t_o give support or aid to; help_:
> 
> ...


Just stop with the "I've done everything right, and only you are being a jerk" routine. If you want to take the high road, you have to travel it all the time, and snide comments and references to "real" hobbyists just don't fit that standard. I'm sorry that you don't like what I have to say on the subject. I have a lot of experience on the topic, and clearly you are of no mind to see any other side of this but your own. Someone of less sensitivity and greater wisdom might have said, "Gee, this guy has a point, however badly phrased or presented I might have found it, and maybe I need to reconsider" rather than getting defensive and insulting.

I sincerely hope that you find some one locally who is willing to help you, and that my experience and sense of how this thing is going to end up turn out to be groundless.


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> I sincerely hope that you find some one locally who is willing to help you, and that my experience and sense of how this thing is going to end up turn out to be groundless.



I will and it will.


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## StevieWonder787 (Apr 27, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Not spoiling for an argument at all -- although you certainly seem to have created one by your reaction. If I'm wrong in my assessment, feel free to say so.
> ---
> And you try to play the "good cause" card... for a "small town railroad museum".


Well, despite the naysayers the kind gentlemen of the CenTex Model Railroad Club made a road trip to our "good cause, small town railroad museum" and did some work ballasting track that was unballasted and doing some scenery work. 

Apparently they like our operation and will return next month to lend their talent and experience to completing the scenery (is it ever _really_ complete?). 

Thanks to those who offered sage advice without feeling a need to roll a grenade into the conversation.


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