# Lionel's Volume II Catalog thoughts



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Interesting choice for early challenger hybrid, even if 3rdrail has done it before. The Moguls have returned. Hope the issue with the last batch was figured out, otherwise buyer beware. I won't touch on the prices, won't beat that dead horse again, we all know it.









Lionel Trains Catalog







catalogs.lionel.com


----------



## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

$2400 Early Challenger-appears to be the “street price” on several Lionel dealers. *No thanks*.

Kudos to Lionel for something unique. Different pilots are cool.

”Road specific details “…yeah, like the FEFs were and not delivered as advertised. 

No interest in anything else.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

800 dollar CN and Strasburg Moguls still show the wrong cylinders. You would think for the price they might get it correct this time.









Pete


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Just did not see anything that I would spend the big bucks on. Maybe when I get the actual catalog something will jump out at me but I doubt it. $2500 for a Challenger, I doubt that very many folks will be dumping their current challenger to acquire the latest and greatest.

Bill


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Considering the economy and supply chain, this is a pretty ambitious second catalog of the year. Lots of rolling stock and diesels, and even one small steamer in the lower price range to choose from, despite the eye catching higher priced items. I'll probably find a few things in that lower price range to consider.


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I think I will do my shopping at train meets.


----------



## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Anyone know, with certainty, which builder (example Samhong) is manufacturing the brass hybrid line for Lionel?


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I like looking. 

I get the same thought every time I look at the catalogs 
Nice, but big bucks!
And I also like looking at old catalogs. What was considered expensive back then/when.

I will stick to the older trains, considered junk by some.
The newer trains are nice to have if you have a nice big layout like JOHN's. 

My table is too small, and it has old tube track, not up to par for running the newer trains.
Works fine for most O trains.

Post War, Prewar, and some early Modern for me. 😎


----------



## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Uh-oh! I just perused the catalog, and see a few items that are in my future......................

A Rock Island H-15-44 Legacy diesel loco, on p. 48. A Rock Island N.E. style caboose, on p. 59. And a Billups "Stop-Death-Stop", Skull & Crossbones crossing gate, on p. 76.

I'll start saving my quarters now (it used to be pennies, but 'inflation', and all that good stuff, ya' know), and maybe in 10 years or so I can find these items on the secondary market.

If I'm still alive.

But like I said, they are most definitely in my future!


----------



## 71camaro (Jul 1, 2015)

The L1s is priced well, especially for acquired tooling with additional features. Used MTH (when they're actually available) are still in the $750-$850 range and are PS2, have no whistle steam, etc.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

neilblumberg said:


> Considering the economy and supply chain, this is a pretty ambitious second catalog of the year. Lots of rolling stock and diesels, and even one small steamer in the lower price range to choose from, despite the eye catching higher priced items. I'll probably find a few things in that lower price range to consider.


What - lots of rolling stock??? None. One page of box cars. No Intermodals. The tractor trailer cars are linked to the heritage units, meaning you better like the U.P. flag or forget it.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

My thoughts are that it is a nice 2nd edition. Not much for me. I may be wrong but I don't see any Milwaukee Road, any Burlington Route and limited Rock Island. And the Rock Island is a - yawn - switcher for $550 or so. Sorry, but the dealers with their special runs have Rock Island switchers well covered. 

I am reaching saturation on my collection, so it has to be pretty unique for me to bite. But - for a 2nd of a year catalog I can not complain. Lots of variety, fair price points given 9% Biden inflation. 

The only interesting item I "might" put an order in for - mostly to help my local hobby store - is the graffiti laden Tuscan red box cars at $139.99 a piece. A couple of those would be neat, and I get a 10% discount on pre orders.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

seayakbill said:


> Just did not see anything that I would spend the big bucks on. Maybe when I get the actual catalog something will jump out at me but I doubt it. $2500 for a Challenger, I doubt that very many folks will be dumping their current challenger to acquire the latest and greatest.
> 
> Bill


Bill

Interesting comment - "Just did not see anything that I would spend the big bucks on." 

I think as many of us are older with large collections, for current new catalogs especially from Lionel and Atlas - we are looking for that "unicorn" - that model we may have never seen before, or one not updated for years. For my 3 road names, I have more than enough. 

So I am looking for nice modeling of paint variations, and rolling stock that is authentic to my era and layout. I already have more than enough. 

I just wonder how many of us are - well - like us? Pretty much saturated and only looking for that "wow" item which is not likely to be made by Lionel. 

I hate to drivel on and everyone can stop reading - but MTH made the ROCK ISLAND E's in several iterations. The usual Red, Black and Silver E's from E6 to E8. But I have the late 60's Red and Yellow and the bicentennial Rock versions too. 

All Lionel has to do is vary the different paint schemes of all the major lines on the same mold. Essentially. 

We might see that over the next 10 years, I hope. In all flags.


----------



## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Glad to see that nothing calls our names. Just received Scott’s Virginian coal and expect the N and W A possibly before year end.

Nice catalog for mid-year.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Norton said:


> 800 dollar CN and Strasburg Moguls still show the wrong cylinders. You would think for the price they might get it correct this time.
> Pete


Pete, I'd be happy if they ran properly, never mind the cylinders! 

My $300 Legacy Mogul runs just fine thanks to your home made bushings.


----------



## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

*Nice catalog but too many high prices. Nice SD70ace special run by Metca. 

Dave*


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

The C&O Greenbrier Chessi passenger train is really very, very nice but at $3450 catalog price I just cannot justify spending that kind of money for an electric train. Certainly would happen if I hit the lottery tonight, will buy a few extra tickets.

Bill


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Pete, I'd be happy if they ran properly, never mind the cylinders!
> 
> My $300 Legacy Mogul runs just fine thanks to your home made bushings.


Lionel is still trying to blame the gearbox for the poor running. Highlighted in red in the catalog that its getting an improved gearbox when all along its was a missing 20 cent part. Reports from the guys who had theirs sent back to China for the “fix” is that theirs ran as poorly as before and the bushing won’t fix those.

Pete


----------



## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

I’m in for the fantasy scheme of the Chessie Greenbriar 612. Seems CHARLES RO has a good preorder price on it. Love them elephant 🐘 ears!!!


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

Norton said:


> Lionel is still trying to blame the gearbox for the poor running. Highlighted in red in the catalog that its getting an improved gearbox when all along its was a missing 20 cent part. Reports from the guys who had theirs sent back to China for the “fix” is that theirs ran as poorly as before and the bushing won’t fix those.
> 
> Pete


Even with the mogul I purchased from you with your upgrades, every once in a while it will lockup and you get the dreaded flashing cab light stating driver fault. It’s not a big issue, just move the engine back and forth and she’s runs fine, but the issue is not fully fixed. So I kind of do believe Dave on this the gear ratio used in those engines is not right.


----------



## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Nice stuff but nothing really grabs me. I am still waiting for the 2-8-0 from 2021.

Tom


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Why would Lionel offer an unpainted-unfinished brass model? I'm not being critical, just curious. Would that be something someone might buy to send to Harry Hieke or some other expert to finish?


----------



## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Mixed Freight said:


> A Rock Island H-15-44 Legacy diesel loco, on p. 48. A Rock Island N.E. style caboose, on p. 59.


I like the looks of that Rock Island too. But I'll wait to see if they get the black color correct! 😋


----------



## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

I love the fact they offered unnumbered Challengers. Hopefully that trend continues with more hybrids. If I was buying, I’d be in for those.

IMO, Lionel did a poor job of exploiting their pilot offerings-no clear pictures of the differences. 

I‘m hopeful extra pilots are available, couple of my 3rd Rail models awaiting update!

Here‘s one awaiting weathering/renumber into 37xx, late cast steel pilot was soldered together/modified by myself:


----------



## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Bryan Moran said:


> Why would Lionel offer an unpainted-unfinished brass model? I'm not being critical, just curious. Would that be something someone might buy to send to Harry Hieke or some other expert to finish?


No, these models are covered in a clear finish. If you wanted to paint them it is possible, however you have to sand and prep the clear coat. It was done to highlight the details of the brass features and gives an engineering sample look to the engine. In some ways, I personally like it although I do not own any at the moment. Just a different look of seeing the bare model and all it's details.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I like the bazooka bubble gum rolling stock. Which I admit is silly but for some reason I have a thing for novelty advert cars or even engines if they did such .. but to be honest I'm not likely to buy.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

The one item that I will probably order is the Ferromex autoracks. Don't see hardly any rolling stock from south of the border. I have the giant Lionel N de M centipede and a couple N de M boxcars from RMT so the Ferromex would be a natural.

Bill


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Norton said:


> Lionel is still trying to blame the gearbox for the poor running. Highlighted in red in the catalog that its getting an improved gearbox when all along its was a missing 20 cent part. Reports from the guys who had theirs sent back to China for the “fix” is that theirs ran as poorly as before and the bushing won’t fix those.


I'm glad mine didn't go back to China! 


superwarp1 said:


> Even with the mogul I purchased from you with your upgrades, every once in a while it will lockup and you get the dreaded flashing cab light stating driver fault. It’s not a big issue, just move the engine back and forth and she’s runs fine, but the issue is not fully fixed. So I kind of do believe Dave on this the gear ratio used in those engines is not right.


From some of the comments at the time, it appeared that these may have had several assorted issues. Clearly, if they all just needed a simple fix, they wouldn't have fed them to the crusher! However, given it's low speed performance, I can't believe the gearing is so tall that it can't start.


----------



## PRR1361 (Dec 14, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm glad mine didn't go back to China!
> From some of the comments at the time, it appeared that these may have had several assorted issues. Clearly, if they all just needed a simple fix, they wouldn't have fed them to the crusher! However, given it's low speed performance, I can't believe the gearing is so tall that it can't start.


What was wrong with the original Moguls and what happened to them? I'm out of the loop on that story.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They had varied issues, but the one I got and apparently the one Pete got just had missing bushings in the drive rods. I actually got the correct rods with the smaller holes, but since mine runs great with the homemade bushings from Pete, I haven't gotten around to installing the proper rods.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I actually have two Legacy versions and two TMCC. They all run smoothly with no issues including the Legacy versions which I have run for a few hours on the club layouts. The only advantage of the Legacy versions is you can double head them with other Legacy engines. The TMCC versions can only be double headed with another TMCC Mogul. Speed differences are too different with other engines like the Ten Wheelers.
I have fine tuned the Legacy engines by moving the driveshaft back about .010” after some were reporting the end of the motor worm gearing might not be clearing the worm gear. Also put thinner traction tires that are flush with the groove. Gary’s got that treatment too before sending it off.
I believe another forum member (Machinist) benefited from the bushings.
I you are looking for a great running engine out of the box, its hard to beat the TMCC Moguls from the early 2000s. They alone came with a Pittman motor and have no mechanical issues. Their smooth running is what got me interested in them. They came with two chuffs and fan smoke. By replacing the cam with a 4 lobe you not only get 4 chuffs but 4 puffs with no additional circuitry. Johns stuff would be icing on the cake if it fits but its pretty tight in there.

Pete


----------



## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

seayakbill said:


> The one item that I will probably order is the Ferromex autoracks. Don't see hardly any rolling stock from south of the border. I have the giant Lionel N de M centipede and a couple N de M boxcars from RMT so the Ferromex would be a natural.
> 
> Bill
> 
> ...


I have a few sets of Mexican Railroad decals for boxcars. Maybe about time I give them a try…

Tom


----------



## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Severn said:


> I like the bazooka bubble gum rolling stock. Which I admit is silly but for some reason I have a thing for novelty advert cars or even engines if they did such .. but to be honest I'm not likely to buy.


I like that one too, but 90 of my dollars for an O27 boxcar aint gonna happen.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Lehigh74 said:


> I like that one too, but 90 of my dollars for an O27 boxcar aint gonna happen.


Yep, must be a pretty good profit margin on those traditional size Lionel boxcars when Menards can sell them for $20 to $25 and still bank a couple bucks.

Bill


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

" given 9% Biden inflation."

Is that the same inflation seen in France, UK, Germany and Canada where Biden is not president?  Interesting coincidence I guess.


----------



## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Just got an e-mail from TrainWorld With some Lionchief prices. Is it me or did the LC2+ 0-6-0T steamers go way up in price at $315.00. Same with other LC2+ offerings.


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Not you, prices have gone up strikingly. Still a good value by today's standards, but not the true bargain they were originally.


----------



## Midnight Goat (Dec 19, 2017)

The Alaska Railroad 0-6-0T caught my eye. I don't have any matching rolling stock but that's ok. Also 
liked the milk flat cars but a little too pricey for something so basic.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TJSmith said:


> Just got an e-mail from TrainWorld With some Lionchief prices. Is it me or did the LC2+ 0-6-0T steamers go way up in price at $315.00. Same with other LC2+ offerings.


I bought my two 0-6-0T engines from the last run, $200/ea. I am not seeing how two years equals more than a 50% price increase, obviously Lionel decided they priced them too low and decided to price gouge.


----------



## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Paid the same for two as well. I don’t run them so perhaps I should sell them.


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It is a nice catalog. But I am already waiting for so many locos that are pre-ordered. And frankly, a good,detailed Challenger is a good,detailed Challenger. I don't see that the brass hybird gets me anything substantial enough to cause me to want to dump my Vision or whatever from a few years ago. Still, i will look through if more closely when I get the time. Lionel is trying - i realize that.


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

neilblumberg said:


> Not you, prices have gone up strikingly. Still a good value by today's standards, but not the true bargain they were originally.


In this regard, we agree. Look, the bottom line is that MOST, not all, modern 3 Scale O want detail. Detail and features cost money. What is too much? 

I paid $540 for my Lionel SD45 loaded with all the features from the last catalog. List was I believe $579 or $599. If you order these SD45's from dealers like Mr. Muffins, you are going to get it delivered for $600 or less. 

Not sure what people want from highly detailed "gee whiz" diesels? $499? $449? 

I have the Lionel Rock Island ES44AC heritage unit. (Iowa Interstate). I got that 6 years ago for $649.99 less my 10% LHS discount. 

I would pay that again today. What happened if Lionel and Atlas went out of business? Williams? MTH special runs? 

I do not think pricing is unrealistic in the current 10% inflation era we are in.


----------



## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

The prices are ridiculous imo but hey that's me. $200 hobo car, $2500 Challenger, bazooka car $80, who are they kidding.

Dave


----------



## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

Lee Willis said:


> It is a nice catalog. But I am already waiting for so many locos that are pre-ordered. And frankly, a good,detailed Challenger is a good,detailed Challenger. I don't see that the brass hybird gets me anything substantial enough to cause me to want to dump my Vision or whatever from a few years ago. Still, i will look through if more closely when I get the time. Lionel is trying - i realize that.


The big difference with the brass hybrid Challenger is that it's the early version, which is substantially different from the later version that everyone else (Lionel, MTH) has produced over and over for the past 20+ years. The only other early Challenger model was made by 3rd Rail about a dozen years ago. If you're a big UP fan it might be worth picking up. If not then there's no reason to get it if you already have a UP Challenger. I'm in that boat. I like UP but not enough to order one. My upgraded JLC Challenger is fine for me. I would only pony up for a brass hybrid if it was an ATSF locomotive. I missed the first one (ATSF Mikado) so I'm hoping Lionel will do another ATSF brass hybrid in the future.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have the JLC Challenger upgraded to all the features of the recent Vision Line Challenger, I don't have money for any more Challengers.


----------



## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have the JLC Challenger upgraded to all the features of the recent Vision Line Challenger, I don't have money for any more Challengers.


You would if you sold it to me!


----------



## RotarySirloin (10 mo ago)

After seeing their vision line sound cars it's disappointing to see their other sound cars not controllable with Legacy/TMCC. Couldn't imagine it would cost that much more relative to what they are going for. If I remember correctly, some non command cars still use a RSL board, so maybe it has serial compatibility? The hobo cars would be more enticing to me if the sounds were controllable.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

RotarySirloin said:


> If I remember correctly, some non command cars still use a RSL board, so maybe it has serial compatibility? The hobo cars would be more enticing to me if the sounds were controllable.


Yep, but they left out the serial code, can't let the customer improve your low end product. 

There is a way to fix these...  *Remote Control of Lionel Sound Boxcars*


----------



## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

This is getting to be old hat with these prices. I suppose perhaps I am no longer in the proper demographic or have become too price sensitive. I just can't honestly see anyone paying these kinds of prices - not that 1 item may not be worth it - but let's say you want several. You would be looking at between $1k and $2k. Even if I am price sensitive; I just do not seeing even the more wealthy among us dropping that kind of cash on these catalog items. 

Reading through this thread I do not feel like I am alone in this opinion. Which really brings me to the point; If the people on this forum, who, should be Lionel's enthusiasts and target audience, are saying mostly the same thing then what the heck is Lionel thinking? Again, "assuming" that I am just being too price sensitive - my opinion is that they are at least $200 too high on the locomotives and at least $20-$50 too high on most of the other rolling stock. Again - just my opinions.


----------



## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

lou1985 said:


> …. I like UP but not enough to order one.….


As someone who models _only_ UP steam, I won’t be ordering one either.


----------



## RotarySirloin (10 mo ago)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Yep, but they left out the serial code, can't let the customer improve your low end product.
> 
> There is a way to fix these...  *Remote Control of Lionel Sound Boxcars*


Any way you could rig something up to have a TMCC board in it? Be it Mini Commander or similar? Your method would work great for those smoking refrigerator cars to toggle the smoke at will. 

I've thought about a product I'd really enjoy: A TMCC board/Sound package that'll perform X function with Y button combination. Writing the software portion wouldn't be the end of the world for me, but translating that serial information is the tricky part.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

RotarySirloin said:


> Any way you could rig something up to have a TMCC board in it? Be it Mini Commander or similar? Your method would work great for those smoking refrigerator cars to toggle the smoke at will.
> 
> I've thought about a product I'd really enjoy: A TMCC board/Sound package that'll perform X function with Y button combination. Writing the software portion wouldn't be the end of the world for me, but translating that serial information is the tricky part.
> [/QUOTE]I have done a car with the ERR Mini Commander interfaced to a sound card, that works as well.
> ...


----------



## machinist (Dec 2, 2015)

Norton said:


> I have fine tuned the Legacy engines by moving the driveshaft back about .010” after some were reporting the end of the motor worm gearing might not be clearing the worm gear. Also put thinner traction tires that are flush with the groove. Gary’s got that treatment too before sending it off.
> I believe another forum member (Machinist) benefited from the bushings.
> 
> 
> Pete


Pete,

I did install the bushings you made for me along with the thinner traction tires as you have done. Engine runs smooth as silk. This was a B&M Legacy, NIB, that I picked up for $ 349. I really wanted a 1970's-1980's version of the Strasburg #89 but the headlight shape/position and the class lights shape/position was totally wrong on this shell. I bought a new NYC shell with complete wiring/plugs from North Lima Trainworks for $40. This shell has the headlight/markers all correct. I was going to slice off part of the running board, replace it with a straight section, and move the compressor to the top of the running board where it belongs. Was also going to try and find spoked pilot wheels that would work. Even had custom made decals for the earlier time period. Then the new Lionel catalog came out-LOL

The vol 2 catalog has the 1970's #89 but there are still incorrect details for this engine such as the headlight, pilot wheels and compressor placement along with the cylinder shape as Pete has mentioned. The cylinder and compressor changes aren't going to happen because of either new tooling or tooling modification being required. However, the headlight placement and spoked pilot wheels are something that could be corrected as previous Moguls have been made with these details. I emailed Ryan Kunkle at Lionel and here is what he said. "The headlight position will be corrected for the production run. The catalog illustration is incorrect, but Lionel has the correct drawings with the correct placement. I do not believe we have the tooling for the spoked pilot wheels anymore." I didn't ask anything about the new gearbox as that is a whole different animal


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

NICK, FYI, I replaced the spoked pilot wheels on my CN cab 86 version with wheels from a Hogwarts. They are larger like the prototype but actually too large to fit unmodified. I had to turn down both the flange and tire to get them to fit. Removing metal from the frame is not an option as its pretty thin already. Obviously Lionel won’t do this but if you order a Hogwarts pilot truck you should be able to do this yourself.










Pete


----------



## Jimofoakcreek (8 mo ago)

I pre-ordered the Santa Fe L1 Mikado and got an amazing price. The Santa Fe comes with a brass tender.









Santa Fe LEGACY L1 Mikado #882


Manufacturer of model trains and accessories in O and standard gauges.




www.lionel.com


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

"are saying mostly the same thing then what the heck is Lionel thinking?"

They are thinking that they have sold stuff at current market prices and will continue to do so. They cannot reduce the costs of Asian factories or shipping product across the Pacific. Younger people are used to higher prices than older people. The $75 for a 700E seems like a bargain, but it wasn't in the 1930s. Starting salaries for orthopedic surgeons (average age of 32 or so) is close to $600,000 per year I just read. Not typical, but not unusual for highly skilled, in demand young folks. All Lionel needs is to sell a few thousand of each SKU to continue to amortize tooling, pay for cost of goods sold and salaries, and the rest is profit. Never was a product for the working class or lower middle class and still isn't. $25 for a train set was beyond my parents' means in the 1950s. Who ever thought gas would be $5.00 a gallon when you got your driver's license back in the 1960s?


----------



## machinist (Dec 2, 2015)

Norton said:


> NICK, FYI, I replaced the spoked pilot wheels on my CN cab 86 version with wheels from a Hogwarts. They are larger like the prototype but actually too large to fit unmodified. I had to turn down both the flange and tire to get them to fit. Removing metal from the frame is not an option as its pretty thin already. Obviously Lionel won’t do this but if you order a Hogwarts pilot truck you should be able to do this yourself.
> 
> View attachment 586210
> 
> ...



Pete,

Thanks for that information. I'll have to order that pilot along with the other items on my list when Lionel has their parts sale in Nov. Do you happen to remember or have the diameters of the tire/flange you endend up with? Were you able to machine one wheelset while the wheels were on the axle or machine them one wheel at a time? I'll have to get one of my train club friends to see if any of their gunsmith connections have a small lathe as I sold off all my machinery a few years ago. At some point one of the wheels will need to come off the axle to mount the wheelset onto the mogul pilot ruck.


----------



## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I can measure them when you get to that point. I think I want them a tad smaller anyway. You have to pull a wheel off but no big deal. Not like a driver that has to be requartered.

Pete


----------



## machinist (Dec 2, 2015)

OK, Pete, thanks.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Norton said:


> You have to pull a wheel off but no big deal. Not like a driver that has to be requartered.


Yep, pilot wheels and diesel wheels are easy, not so easy when you pull the drivers.


----------



## gsgoss1 (Mar 20, 2020)

My only complaint is . It’s not a complete catalog. Everyone don’t like looking at details on a computers and trying to remember the part number as you go to your favorite shop. It’s not fair to our lionel dealers. All of them don’t have iPad to show customers All the freight, passenger and etc. Lionel may be loosing money because of this. Sorry for the complaints. No more venting. I just like looking at the catalog in favorite chair with a nice cold beverage.


----------



## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

At first glance it appears that LC+ is taking a back seat to the more sophisticated Legacy systems. I prefer simple and LC+ is that.


----------



## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

gsgoss1 said:


> My only complaint is . It’s not a complete catalog. Everyone don’t like looking at details on a computers and trying to remember the part number as you go to your favorite shop. It’s not fair to our lionel dealers. All of them don’t have iPad to show customers All the freight, passenger and etc. Lionel may be loosing money because of this. Sorry for the complaints. No more venting. I just like looking at the catalog in favorite chair with a nice cold beverage.


Did I miss something? Lionel not doing a printed catalog, huh? The show I saw said printed copies were on way to dealers…


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lionel did a subset of the on-line digital catalog in the print catalog. The print Catalog has about 60 pages, the on-line catalog has 100 pages.


----------



## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

In the next couple of years there will be no printed catalogs from anybody including Lionel. Get used to it. Time and technology moves on. 

Dave


----------



## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

We basically have more than we need. A catalog sits on the den table and is read multiple times. There is a chance that I might buy a Greenbrier engine in a moment of weakness.

We looked at the on-line catalog once, decided no, and have not been back. The catalog is not a thought.

So, with us, a catalog makes the difference.


----------



## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

davidone said:


> In the next couple of years there will be no printed catalogs from anybody including Lionel. Get used to it. Time and technology moves on.
> 
> Dave


Let's hope that printed matter of other types does not suffer the same fate.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Madman said:


> Let's hope that printed matter of other types does not suffer the same fate.


Well, these are out of print. 









Let's just hope these don't go out of print as well!


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes, let us hope. You need a lot of those Benjamins to afford some of those Legacy locos.

As I admitted I have lost interest in my model trains lately, but I enjoyed looking through the catalog and thinking about the new products. I did not see anything I want to buy, and frankly was a bit disappointed with Lionel: nothing new, and they dont seem to be evolving their control systems (Legacy, LC+) into one seamless, more modern direction. But I guess they don't see they have very formidable competition any more so don't see the need.


----------



## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

I think maintaining backward compatibility is a priority, hence the Base 3 which will respond to LionChief, TMCC, Legacy remotes, as well as the app. Not clear to me how they could maintain that compatibility any other way.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have to agree, there's not really any good place for Lionel to go. They sure won't go in the DCS direction, but their upcoming BASE3 tries to tie them all together.


----------

