# School a newbie



## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Some of you have provided input to my new member intro, I feel that had gone well part an intro and probably better move here.

As mentioned, I'm new. Looking to get my son his first train, and let's be honest... Dad's in to this too! I've never run any model train stuff before and I'm trying to learn about what's out there in hopes of scouting costly mistakes.

So teach me a little bit of the basics with regards to power control, sounds, lights, etc. At first I figured sounds were just generic generated onboard each locomotive... Seems that's not really the case and is more involved than that. 

I also kind of assumed that per was on or off, supplied through the rail, but seeing different trains run separately kind of leads me to believe there is more to it there as well. Can someone point me to a good internet source that give a tutorial on the basics? What do you need to run one train, multiple trains, multiple tracks and what you need to add sounds, lights etc? Thanks in advance!

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Help a new modeler to get started.


]Welcome to the model train forum! If you are a new model train enthusiast, this thread is a good place to start learning about model railroading. It is intended to help people who are basically "On their first day", or close to it. If you are an experienced model railroader, I encourage you...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

*Help a new modeler to get started*
It's in Forum: Beginner Q&A
Go to Page 1.
Says it ALL better than I ever could!!


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Welcome. 

Prior to the mid-90's, with some sophisticated exceptions, power control was done by powering the rails with variable DC or AC voltage. You changed the locomotive's direction by switching polarity (in DC) or phase (in three rail O gauge and other systems such as European scales).

Since the 90's, DCC is the new way of doing things, and even it is in some competition with more advanced systems being brought to market. Digital Command Control has full 'scale' electrical power to the rails all the time. It varies by scale due to the 'work' variations between the scales; O gauge items are at least twice as heavy as those in HO, for example, and often quite a bit more than that. So more voltage needed and more amperage conveyed by that increased voltage.

Instead of you dialing up the voltage and speeding the trains, the decoder chip inside the locomotive does that for you. Remember, full voltage to the rails. The decoder 'decodes' your commands from your hand-held throttle and meters out voltage to the motor and to the lights, but also to the amplifier and speaker in DCC locomotives 'with sound'.

The decoder switches phase and polarity when you click a button to get the locomotive to move in reverse. That is why two locomotives in DCC can move towards each other on the same contiguous length of powered rail. This can't be done in DC.

You will need to do a lot of reading and asking, I'm afraid. It can add up, the plastic spending in this hobby, and not in a good way. Best to chill a bit, include your child in your discoveries and ruminations, and the both of you can build something mutually exciting. Pick your track plan, or create one, carefully, and figure out what type of trackage you will use to build it. The EZ-Track and others with plastic 'ballast' already attached is VERY COSTLY. You pay for quick access to fun and for quick construction. If you really want that product, get as little as you possibly can and learn with it. Before long you will want to tackle 'flex track' which is infinitely more flexible in terms of the geometry you can craft.

There is no 'best' DCC system. Every one of them is excellent and will do tons for you. They're all very good, reliable, well engineered. What you want to know is how much amperage you'll need from it, what it can safely deliver, and whether you might want to purchase 'extra' now for the inevitable growth you'll want. For example, maybe only one locomotive for the time being, but what if your son wants his own in a year...or both of you now have two or three favourites. Will your system be able to power all of them pulling trains? Better consider future needs.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Thank you for the links, I had not come across that page yet. And for the synopsis, that helps a ton!

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

"DCC sound and cheap are rarely seen in the same sentence. " _MichaelE_

vette, you can run a DC loco with a simple power pack, and many still do. Even though it's 2020. 
You cannot run multiple trains and routes, etc. I'm just saying that you can certainly get started
much more cheaply using DC without a big investment in controllers and decoders. You and
7-year old can have a fine time using DC.
If you have a local hobby shop, with a real train section, you may find all kinds of second-hand
equipment to get you started. Lay down a few feet of test track with a used HO loco and you
will be running trains *tomorrow*. Major decisions can be deferred until you get some sense of
what you all might prefer! IMO


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

DCC (Digital Command Control) may sound complex, but it is actually a very
simple system to use, especially for those with limited electrical skills.

When you buy a DCC system you get the Power Supply and the Controller. The
controller, in many cases looks similar to a TV remote. It sends a continual modified 
14 volt AC current to the track on 2 wires. It also sends on the same wires digital information that
decoders in the locomotives use so that you can control Forward or backing motion
and speed. Each loco uses a decoder with a 2 or 4 digit 'address'. You 'punch'
this 'address' into your controller and loco A can be run as you like...You can then
keep it running as you punch in the 'address' for loco B...you can now have two
locos running, each individually controlled. You can even run more than 2. 
What you 'tell' local A to do has no effect on loco B. It's as simple
as that. Decoders are available to upgrade most any old DC loco.

There are 4 popular DCC makes on the market. Digitrax, NCE,
MRC and Bachmann. Any one of those would be suitable for the
type of layout you propose. (There are a few other makes available also)
The least expensive and easiest to set up and use is the Bachmann EZ. But
it lacks the ability to 'fine tune' loco decoders, a feature not usually
needed on a small layout. Because we have NMRA standards you can
use any make loco or decoder with any make Controller.

You can buy locos and or decoders that do not have sound, or for more $
your loco can have the sound associated with that model...diesel starting up,
running slowly, ring it's bell, blow the horn, in addition to other sounds. Steam
locos have very distinct sounds that the big guys make...chugging, steam
escaping and the like.

Don


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Extremely helpful information guys! I've downloaded the PDF files and will read through then as well.

Can you mix and match brands of track? Seems like used lots on eBay might be economical, especially if track is interchangeable. I understand the size is standard, but worried about connections.

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

And Sally, I do not have a decent model shop close that we can look at stuff out tally to someone. There is one about two hours away that has some pretty big tracks running. Of course they are closed now anyway. I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be one in Destin or fort Walton, at least not that I have found.

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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

The neat thing about most DCC setups is that while it is fairly simple to get up and running, moving trains around on the track, DCC also provides a lot of extras for you to explore as you gain an understanding of how it work. For example, when you start out you set a throttle speed for a loco, and it goes that speed. However later on you may want a more realistic operation -- a long train doesn't just immediately start and stop, it has significant weight to it. DCC allows you to set momentum, so you may set your throttle for 50% speed but it could take 15 seconds, a minute, or longer to actually work up to that speed. The same goes for slowing down, you set the momentum and the train will slowly drop in speed. If you get a sound decoder on a loco, it can work with what the loco is doing... If you are slowing down rapidly you may hear the sound of brakes. If you start going up a hill the sound may get louder as the loco works harder to climb. And many of these sounds can be made automatic so you just run your train and the appropriate sounds are played.

If you think you're going to be involved with model trains for awhile, it pays to get a more expensive control system. There are cheap systems which only do the basics, but they don't provide for any upgrade options, so take some time to do the research, ask questions here as you get ideas of what you want to get out of DCC, and folks will steer you in the right direction.

While learning about how you want to control your trains, you might also want to consider if there's a particular theme that appeals to you. Do you want steam locos or deisels? Modern or a period you remember from your past? Do you want to build vast industrial complexes or rolling farmland? Mountains or flatland? Do you want to fill a basement with your empire or do some small-scale switching on a shelf? Do you enjoy creating complex scenery or do you want to just tack some track down to a sheet of plywood? Do you want to model an existing railroad or create something entirely from your imagination? More than likely you will want a combination of ideas, and as you proceed you will find new ideas you want to incorporate. It's your railroad, so anything goes and there are no wrong answers, but it helps to try and get some early ideas to guide where you're going.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

So I agree that the best way for you to get started is to read a bunch of that beginner stuff, and then come back with some more focused questions.

To address those that you have asked so far, yes, you can freely mix brands of track, provided that 1) it doesn't have attached plastic roadbed and 2) the rails are the same code (Code = rail height in thousandths of an inch). Neither of these is a show stopper; they just make it harder. The second is fairly easy, just requiring a special joiner and a little shimming. The former means performing a little surgery to the roadbed itself. 

And the question you didn't ask: purchasing supplies and equipment. Brick and mortar retailers who sell model train stuff are an endangered species. There are plenty of good, on-line suppliers, though. The two I use most often are MB Klein (www.modeltrainstuff.com) and Trainworld (www.trainworld.com). Only the latter has a brick and mortar location, and those are in New York City, so you can be sure they're only doing business on-line at the moment. I would also recommend a visit to Walthers (www.walthers.com). They are primarily a wholesaler, so they always sell at MSRP, but they have an enormous selection of stuff, and it's a good place to browse to get an idea of what is available. There are plenty of manufacturers they don't carry, but they're still the biggest model railroad wholesaler in North America.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Thanks everyone, I'm starting to get a good grasp of at least the basics here. Looking at the controls I think DCC makes sense and I think sound is almost a must at this point. I know that comes at a cost. I also think it needs to be a simple unit that my son can work. That said, the simplest design I see is the Bachmann EZ Commander. I know it's somewhat looked down on here for it's simplicity and lack of expandability, but I don't see us running more than two trains at once and the ability to still run a DC train is appealing as well (my Corvette train is a Bachmann DC... Don't know much beyond that yet, but there is no PCB inside, just a few wires to the motor and light). 

I realized that if we want more down the road it will mean another investment, but the ez Commander can be had for $125. That seems like the cheapest way to get into DCC and the simplest control interface. 

For track I'll be looking at a basic oval to start, 36 x 120. I think I can do that with some flex track fairly inexpensive.

That leaves the locomotive. I'm looking for a decent DCC/sound locomotive fairly inexpensive. Rolling stock and DC locos seen readily available on eBay fairly cheap. But I would like one good DCC/sounds loco to start out. I'm fairly handy with tools and soldering, so may be able to update my DC train, or another one later. 

Looking for thoughts on this plan or suggestions for a loco.

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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

You can have a lot of fun with the Bachmann EZ DCC. Not a bad start.
Flex track is a good way to go, not so expensive and pretty easy to work with.
If you deside to go with turnouts best bet is to spent a little extra and get good ones.
Peco, Walthers etc. saves a lot of frustration, not so much Atlas.

Almost any newer DCC/sound loco will be a good runner, what cost more is the fine details.
Bachmann locos run just fine and are low cost but lack detail and will match up well with what you are trying to do.
I have 4 F7 units and am happy with them, good runners and look ok for now.
Walthers, BLI, MTH etc. will cost more and may sound a little better and have much more detail but at a cost.

I like your plan and doing the research, a good way to go.
Good luck and happy railroading.

Magic


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

EZ Command is a good unit, but just be aware that it is not a full featured system. You can't have more than one throttle, and you can't program decoders with it (which means you can't fine tune the performance of your locos). You also might not be able to use all the features of your decoders. And it will handle a maximum of 10 trains. Perhaps it's biggest drawback is that it's not upgradeable. If you find it too limiting, you have to buy a new system.

While many of us operate on a budget, cheaper isn't necessarily better. Do some research (at least, look at the couple of dozen threads on this forum where it has been discussed. Full systems from MRC, NCE, or Digitrax are all excellent (the main difference being the interface and human engineering factors). Roco's z21 system allows the use of smartphones and tablets as throttles (which may or may not be right for you, because of the lack of tactile feedback and difficulty of fine adjustments). Digitrax and MRC also have adapters available to use standard Wifi devices. My preference is MRC; in my experience, most people will recommend the system they have.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

for $35 more u can find an NCE PowerCabStarter Kit. At least, I saw that price at Lombard's. And, ?read about RailPro?? (ducking)


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Ok, I kind of expected some negativity toward the ex command, but I'm not quite sure what I'm missing. Power cab would be tempting for the price difference, but it just doesn't seem very used friendly for a 7yo without additional purchase. The ez Commander looks easy enough for him to figure out. Few buttons, big controls. I'm positive that once I set it up, he will be able to run it.

What I expect from DCC is mainly the ability to run two trains and sounds. It would be nice if it would allow the trains to throttle up slowly, but not really a requirement. And the ability to control a few turnouts. But nothing crazy.

I'm not sure if I understand right, but if I do, the ez command will allow you to switch to DC only? That's a bonus as I do have a DC locomotive. I'm not sure of others do that.

So what is EZ Commander leaving on the table? 

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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I don't believe the EZ-Command has the sophistication to do what you will eventually want it to do. Remember what I cautioned you about...growth. Evolution. The EZ-Command is a dead end IMO. It has very limited throughput in terms of rail power, and it can't control volumes (which I assure you you will want to do before long), it can't programme the CV's for other sounds if the whistle file you get eventually wears on you, you can't control the bell ring rate, you can't alter lighting arrangements, you can't affect inertia or momentum, you won't be able to consist...oy...it's just not a good purchase. I actually had one for a whole two weeks and ended up spending five times as much on a Digitrax system, now 14 years ago.

I am positive you won't be able to run a DC locomotive with the EZ-Command. I can do that with my Digitrax using the address '00', but it's a horrifying experience. The alternating current makes the DC motor yowl and growl, and sing, and ping. It'll screech like a horny cat. If you forget and leave the loco immobile for more than a few minutes, you'll fry the motor. Probably not because it'll scream at you the whole while.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Ok, not sure I'm tracking other than lacking the ability to add custom sounds. None the less, how about the NCE DCC twin? That's the only other station I've seen that has the simplicity I'm looking for and relative low cost. 

As mentioned previously, I don't expect our future growth to go too crazy. If we really get into it part the capability of one of these entry level units, we'll have to invest in another controller, I get that. Since future expansion is a plus thought.

On the DC side, is the only real option to disconnect the DCC controllers and switch to a DC unit? I havn't researched how the EZ Commander weekend but I assumed that when you use stain 10( I think) it switched from AC to DC power for DC only operation. Not so? 

Other than more power, what are the benefits of the NCE controller over the Bachmann.

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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Yes, because you do NOT want to feed DC current into the grid that is already being powered digitally by a DCC/DCS unit. The are incompatible, and you'll have an expensive doorstop on your hands with the DCC unit. However, a great many older DC players, say over the age of about 50-is, might have some nostalgic pieces that they and their fathers/siblings played with back in the late 70's. What they do is run them with DC powering the rails, but through a DPST. That kind of toggle switch has perhaps DCC power going to two poles, but also issuing from those two same poles. The other two poles have DC power going to them, but also issuing from them. This way, the toggle position isolates the rails from mistakenly applied simultaneous power, or simply powers the rails via one power system at a time. Perfect isolation, no mistakes.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Ok, I kind of expected some negativity toward the ex command, but I'm not quite sure what I'm missing. Power cab would be tempting for the price difference, but it just doesn't seem very used friendly for a 7yo without additional purchase. The ez Commander looks easy enough for him to figure out. Few buttons, big controls. I'm positive that once I set it up, he will be able to run it.
> 
> What I expect from DCC is mainly the ability to run two trains and sounds. It would be nice if it would allow the trains to throttle up slowly, but not really a requirement. And the ability to control a few turnouts. But nothing crazy.
> 
> ...


Not negativity. But you have to know what you're getting. Or not.

If it's few buttons, big controls you want, look at the MRC Prodigy Explorer. It, too is a limited feature system in that it doesn't program decoders. It's about the same price as an EZ Command, but unlike the Bachmann, you can upgrade it buy buying a higher end set, and the throttle from the Explorer will still work on the new system (provided it's an MRC -- manufacturers components are not interchangeable). Having two throttles would be a key feature if you both want to run trains together. But really, a 7 year old could be taught to operate ANY DCC system. You would have to do the initial set up for him, most likely, but after that, he just has to know what buttons to push to get sound, lights, etc.

All the DCC systems I mentioned in my initial post come with only one throttle (except the z21, which has none, but you would use a smartphone or tablet). Which means only ONE of you can issue commands at a time (although trains would continue to follow their last command until a new one was issued from the throttle). With EZ Command, you can't ever use a second throttle. Period. Also, if you get a loco that won't start until you've cranked the throttle halfway one, you may get very frustrated with the inability to run at very low speeds. Being able to overcome this is a huge advantage of DCC, and the EZ Command can't do it.

You're right, though. A 7 year old just wants to make the train stop and go, activate the lights, hear some engine growl, and blow the horn. But I have 3 boys of my own, and I can assure you that your son will not always be 7 years old. Yes, he may lose interest but he might not. Do you want to railroad him (pun intended) into a dead-end future, or give him something that can grow with him?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

And, not become bored with.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> You can't have more than one throttle


I have a question regarding what @vette-kid has mentioned... When you say you can't have more than one throttle, does that mean you have to run ALL the trains from a single throttle? So in other words, vette-kid and his son wouldn't be able to have separate throttles so they could each run a train? Just trying to clarify since that sounds like it could be a problem here...

Regarding the DPDT switches... Make SURE you get a better quality switch that either has a center-off position, or is at least a non-shorting type. A lot of cheap switches can bridge both connections together as you throw the switch, and that too could brick your DCC controller.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Shdwdrgn said:


> I have a question regarding what @vette-kid has mentioned... When you say you can't have more than one throttle, does that mean you have to run ALL the trains from a single throttle? So in other words, vette-kid and his son wouldn't be able to have separate throttles so they could each run a train? Just trying to clarify since that sounds like it could be a problem here...
> 
> Regarding the DPDT switches... Make SURE you get a better quality switch that either has a center-off position, or is at least a non-shorting type. A lot of cheap switches can bridge both connections together as you throw the switch, and that too could brick your DCC controller.


I always have problems conveying this concept clearly. Full featured DCC systems allow multiple throttles (my MRC Prodigy Wireless up to 28). In normal practice, EACH operator has a single throttle. Otherwise, you have to hand them back and forth.

The throttles themselves can only issue commands to ONE loco at a time (unless programming on the main or consisting): whichever loco address is currently selected. One throttle can be used to sequentially issue commands to multiple locos, as fast as the operator can switch addresses (MRC has a 10 address recall stack, after which you have to press "LOCO", the 2 or 4 digit address, then "ENTER"), so it is possible to drive several trains from the same throttle, although things can get a bit dicey if more than one at a time requires fine control, like while switching. MRC also has a STOP button -- one press instantly stops the currently-selected loco; the Master Throttle can stop every train with a double press.

The EZ Command does not allow multiple throttles, nor does the Prodigy Explorer. Full featured MRC, Digitrax , and NCE systems do allow multiple throttles. So if the OP wants to run trains with his son, with each one holding his own throttle, then the intro systems won't support it. As I said above, the MRC handset can be used as a separate throttle on other MRC systems, the Bachmann unit doesn't have that capability, ever. You would have to replace it AND purchase a second throttle.

Now Bachmann also offers a higher end system, often sold as the EZ Command Dynamis. The marketing literature says you can add additional throttles; what they don't tell you (until you find out the hard way, like I did) is that before you can do that, you need to purchase a $400 upgrade called the ProBox. That's a non-starter in my book.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

That's why I'm now looking at the NCE DCC twin. With this setup we could, out if the box, run two trains with two throttles AND have the ability to add additional handheld throttles. I don't see us really running not than two at once, but perhaps another handheld controller would make functions easier down the road, but this would function as a starter system just fine. Correct me if I'm wrong on that system. 

I also plan to run an isolated DC track around the DCC track, essentially allowing us to run three trains. Although I have yet to find a DCC loco to run and have four DC locos. One may be a candidate for an upgrade.

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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

vette-kid said:


> I also plan to run an isolated DC track around the DCC track, essentially allowing us to run three trains. Although I have yet to find a DCC loco to run and have four DC locos. One may be a candidate for an upgrade.


IMO running DCC and DC on separate, isolated tracks is going to unnecessarily complicate things. You're going to have two completely different systems on one layout. I would recommend going all DCC and converting your existing DC locos. There are many videos and how-tos out there. I've linked one that covers several different brands and chassis.



http://www.ppdnmra.com/decoder-inst.pdf


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Stumpy said:


> IMO running DCC and DC on separate, isolated tracks is going to unnecessarily complicate things. You're going to have two completely different systems on one layout. I would recommend going all DCC and converting your existing DC locos. There are many videos and how-tos out there. I've linked one that covers several different brands and chassis.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ppdnmra.com/decoder-inst.pdf


Probably something I'll work towards. I think our first track with be fairly simple layout. Probably just oval or figure eight inside and basic oval outside. 

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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I like the idea of a separate track for DC, rather than a DPDT switch. The switch method makes it too easy to have a DC loco on a DCC track and poof no the motor overheats and lets out all the smoke! In either case, you still need to be observant, but at least your protected against an inadvertent switch throw.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

I agree with that! Just hook up a powerpack! Like I suggested a few days ago:

"Lay down a few feet of test track with a used HO loco and you will be running trains *tomorrow*. 
Major decisions can be deferred until you get some sense of what you all might prefer! IMO "

Powerpacks, trainsets, used locos, roadbed, track all available on ebay if u don't have a shop open...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Whoa, CTvalley...you are usually so informed and correct, I was really
surprised when you said that the EZ DCC system can only have one throttle.
Tain't correct . The EZ, like all DCC systems has a connection for a plug
in wired handheld throttle...OR that same jack can be used to attach
a series of fascia panels into which hand helds can be plugged. I had
a wired throttle that I used most of the time on my EZ system.

As I read the various well meaning posts intended to help Vette Kid 
the situation seems to get muddled. He wants a simple DCC system
that his kid can easily operate. He wants ability to run 2 trains at the
same time. He wants to be able to control loco sounds. The EZ system
meets all of those requirements...and is probably the easiest system to
set up and operate of those on the market.

Vette kid also asked; can he control turnouts? Any DCC
system 'can' control turnouts with special 'stationary' decoders. 
However, to keep the layout simple and less costly, I would
recommend using an inexpensive DC wall wart as power
source for turnout control. It should have output of around 12
or so volts. With the exception noted above, no
DCC system provides power for turnouts.

Don


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Although I have yet to find a DCC loco to run and have four DC locos. One may be a candidate for an upgrade.


Sorry if I missed it, but what did you have in mind for locos? For instance, are you looking for steam or diesel? Any certain time period? Is sound required, or are you just looking for something with a DCC decoder to get you started? There's a lot of folks here with a lot of experience, I'm sure someone could point you to some possibilities if they know what you're looking for.

Converting a DC loco over to DCC isn't TOO terribly difficult, provided that you are familiar with how electricity works, are good at keeping track of where a number of wires are supposed to go (and where they came from), and you're ok with figuring out how to pack things into tight spaces. For a very minimal DCC installation, you have two wires coming from the track and two wires going to the motor (and depending on the age of your DC locos, you may have to run new wires to all of these locations individually). The thing most people seem to have trouble with is figuring out where to mount the decoder board inside the loco once the wiring is complete, and adding sound means trying to mount even more new hardware.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

cid said:


> I agree with that! Just hook up a powerpack! Like I suggested a few days ago:
> 
> "Lay down a few feet of test track with a used HO loco and you will be running trains *tomorrow*.
> Major decisions can be deferred until you get some sense of what you all might prefer! IMO "
> ...


Actually doing that. I bought a bunch of stuff in an eBay lot that should have us going as soon as it gets here. And I'm talking with a member about possibly getting some additional track and supplies.

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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Just as a point of interest...
CDU connected to DCC track bus
I wondered if one couldn't do this...


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but what did you have in mind for locos? For instance, are you looking for steam or diesel? Any certain time period? Is sound required, or are you just looking for something with a DCC decoder to get you started? There's a lot of folks here with a lot of experience, I'm sure someone could point you to some possibilities if they know what you're looking for.
> 
> Converting a DC loco over to DCC isn't TOO terribly difficult, provided that you are familiar with how electricity works, are good at keeping track of where a number of wires are supposed to go (and where they came from), and you're ok with figuring out how to pack things into tight spaces. For a very minimal DCC installation, you have two wires coming from the track and two wires going to the motor (and depending on the age of your DC locos, you may have to run new wires to all of these locations individually). The thing most people seem to have trouble with is figuring out where to mount the decoder board inside the loco once the wiring is complete, and adding sound means trying to mount even more new hardware.


This is the challenge. As mentioned,I have DC locos. I'm not picky on the type of train we run right now, diesel or steam. I think sound is a must. Other than that, something with some color or visual interest. Ideally I'd like to keep the cost low, but that doesn't go have on hand with rest of the requirements. I'm not spending $500 on a locomotive though. I think if we get one DCC/sound and I can upgrade a few others to DCC as we go then we will be good.

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

DonR said:


> Whoa, CTvalley...you are usually so informed and correct, I was really
> surprised when you said that the EZ DCC system can only have one throttle.
> Tain't correct . The EZ, like all DCC systems has a connection for a plug
> in wired handheld throttle...OR that same jack can be used to attach
> ...


You seem pretty satisfied with the ez command for it's intended purpose. How would you compare it to the NCE DCC twin and for my started needs, which would you prefer? The NCE of around $150 and you can get the Bachmann for around $125, so price difference is negligible.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I guess you never said what scale you are building in, but I'm guessing HO? If you want to get a nice-running steam loco, take a look at Bachmann's ten-wheelers (part numbers range from 51401-51405) which come with their value package DCC decoder and sound. These seem to be running at about $200 and it's ready to put on the track. Bachmann used to make a similar model in their Spectrum line which had a lot more detail (and a higher cost!), but for getting started the lesser detail will make it easier to pick up. Bachmann also makes the same model in N, if that's what you're looking for. And they do, of course, make cheaper models that are pre-built with sound.

The thing to remember is that the Bachmann models are meant to be cheaper, so they have what they call a 'value' sound card. This means you only have a few sound styles to choose from. In comparison, something like a Sountrax tsunami is the cadilac choice with a number of different models for different types of steam locos and diesels, and each model also has several different sounds to choose from and include several other options like random sounds of shoveling coal or the crew talking to each other. However for those, you're looking at $110 just for the card, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> Whoa, CTvalley...you are usually so informed and correct, I was really
> surprised when you said that the EZ DCC system can only have one throttle.
> Tain't correct . The EZ, like all DCC systems has a connection for a plug
> in wired handheld throttle...OR that same jack can be used to attach
> ...


Hey, I'm not perfect. I looked at the EZ Command for my son, I want to say 6 years ago, and it did not appear to have the ability to connect additional throttles to it. The guy who was selling them at the Amherst show "confirmed" my "belief" in response to a question. Who knows, maybe he was trying to push me to a higher end system, or just didn't know his product.

Not deliberately trying to misinform anyone, and I apologize for doing so. I will file the information about throttles away for future reference (hoping that the gremlins of dementia don't steal it from me). And now that think about it, you can hook up multiple throttles to the Prodigy Explorer by using expansion plate jacks too.

However, I did not say that the EZ command can't control turnouts, lights or sound. I said that your ability to take full advantage of these options may be limited by the programming capabilities of the unit. For myself, I consider the lack of robust programming capabilities to be its Achilles Heel anyway, but that's only because I like to tweak my locos so that they just barely creep in speed step one. But that won't be important for everyone. I'd also have to disagree that it's any simpler to install and set up than any MRC system. My 11 year old (at the time) son was able to set his Prodigy Express2 up on his own, while I was at work, multiple throttles, extension plates and all.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm not familiar with the NCE DCC Twin so I checked on it.









Quick Look: NCE DCC Twin | ModelRailroader.com


Model Railroader is the world's largest magazine on model trains and model railroad layouts. We feature beginner and advanced help on all model railroading scales, including layout track plans, model railroad product reviews, model train news, and model railroad forums.




mrr.trains.com





NCE makes good stuff, but as far as I can tell, this unit does not seem to
be as flexible as the EZ system. I don't see any way to run more than 2 locos
with it, while with the EZ you can call from a roster of 10 locos and run 3
or even 4 at the same time. The likely
hood is great that as time moves on you'll want to add to the two initial
locos. Perhaps, you'll add a DCC decoder to the DC loco you have. This
is simple with the EZ.

If my reading of the link, as above, is correct, I would definitely prefer the
EZ DCC system that you can add a 2nd hand held controller. With the
EZ you can easily run 2 trains at the same time, even 3 or 4. You simply
press the number for the loco you want to run, say #2...then run up the speed
control. While the loco #2 is running, you press the button for the 2nd
loco, possibly #5, run up the speed control You have 2 running. You can simply
press the the 2 or the 5 buttons as you see something you want to change.
Simple. And if you add a hand held, it can run 2 or 3 more locos.

You can run train 2 with the Main controller while
your son has the hand held to run loco 5. It can get even more interesting.
Your son can run 2 trains on the hand held as you run 2 more from
the main.



Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> That's why I'm now looking at the NCE DCC twin. With this setup we could, out if the box, run two trains with two throttles AND have the ability to add additional handheld throttles. I don't see us really running not than two at once, but perhaps another handheld controller would make functions easier down the road, but this would function as a starter system just fine. Correct me if I'm wrong on that system.
> 
> I also plan to run an isolated DC track around the DCC track, essentially allowing us to run three trains. Although I have yet to find a DCC loco to run and have four DC locos. One may be a candidate for an upgrade.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Just curious, but why wouldn't they all be candidates for upgrades? Sometimes finding room for a speaker requires a little creativity, but otherwise, as Shdwdrgn said, it's not too difficult.

I ran my layout with dual inputs and a DPDT switch while I converted over. I intended to go it gradually, but as I saw what I could do with DCC compared to DC, the DC locos were banished from my layout. So I bit the bullet, bought 6 6-packs of Digitrax decoders, and just took a weekend and converted them. Well, ok, all except one very old (30+ years) Hornby switcher, on which I never did figure out where the motor was shorting to the frame.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

DonR said:


> I'm not familiar with the NCE DCC Twin so I checked on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with Don on this. Based on what I know (and granted, I've just been served a big slice of humble pie for NOT knowing all the details), I would pick the EZ Command over the Twin. In addition to Don's concerns, as I see it, you're basically rubbing elbows with the other operator, which is fine while your son is little, but when he's 2 inches taller and significantly broader than you are (sooner than you think, trust me), you're gonna want some elbow room. Separate throttles allows you to be on opposite sides of the layout, if you want (and had the foresight to place a jack there).


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

This site has the manual for it. They show ability to use additional handheld controller with it, such as the pro cab.



DCC Twin – Welcome to the NCE Information Station



Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

vette-kid -

Does your son have a smartphone?
Or a tablet?
iOS or Android? (doesn't matter which)

If so, do you think he'd like an app that looks like this on his phone?
(choose lights, sounds with icons, rather than trying to remember "which button is which"...)








Or, the same app with two controls side-by-side on a tablet?








And pick his engines this way?








IF so...
You can do this with a Digikeijs DR5000 or a Roco z21 (both running the free Roco z21 app in the pics above).
Here's what the z21 looks like (it uses the companion router for wifi):









The DR5000 comes with the router built-in and ready-to-go.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

After reading the manual for the NCE Twin, it is as I thought, unable to 'call up'
any loco on your layout...it can run ONLY the TWO locos that you have PRE SET
on controls A and B. If you had a third loco you would have to remove the first
two FROM THE TRACK, eliminate one FROM A CONTROLLER, and PRE SET the new loco. This is very awkward and sure hinders convenient fun with your layout
.
With the EZ (or any other standard DCC controller) when you get a 'new' loco,
you select an 'address' for it, follow your manual, and it is automatically in your controller roster along with all of your other locos.
You simply push the EZ # button for whatever loco from that roster you want
to run and it will be at your control. Any hand held would also have 
access to your full loco roster.

It is true that they claim ability to add extra throttles, but
it still boils down to the fact that this device is intended for a very small
layout with only 2 locos. I can therefore, with even more enthusiasm endorse
the EZ DCC system over this one. 

As I mentioned before, NCE produces fine DCC equipment. You would not
go wrong with any of their FULL FEATURE controllers. BUT NOT THE TWIN.

Don


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

J.Albert1949 said:


> vette-kid -
> 
> Does your son have a smartphone?
> Or a tablet?
> ...


Cool, very cool; but no. He does have a tablet, but it's a kids tablet and very limited capability. I think this is one of those things where a starter system makes sense for now and of we really get into it we can reinvest in a few years in something more capable.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

DonR said:


> After reading the manual for the NCE Twin, it is as I thought, unable to 'call up'
> any loco on your layout...it can run ONLY the TWO locos that you have PRE SET
> on controls A and B. If you had a third loco you would have to remove the first
> two FROM THE TRACK, eliminate one FROM A CONTROLLER, and PRE SET the new loco. This is very awkward and sure hinders convenient fun with your layout
> ...


Thanks for your input! I'm going to spend some time reading the two manuals. I do still love the dial dials on the NCE and I'm not sure how many trains we will realistically have to start with. Two DCC and two DC sounds like a full stain for me. Probably a drop in the bucket for many of you guys. I tend to over think things, so I'm going to go keep with that tradition! 

On the Bachmann side, I can get a DCC/sounds F7(?) Train with cars and with the EZ command for about $160. So that makes a big difference too! Probably won't use three ez track as I have plenty of flat track, and I'm sure it won't be the most detailed, but it sounds like they are fairly reliable and a low cost entrance to DCC sound.

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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The sound F7 loco. train and EZ DCC system for 160.00 is not a bad deal
at all. I had 2 of Bachmann's F7s, nice strong quiet locos. The F7 was one
of railroading's very popular locomotives a few years back. Good looking
and powerful from GM's Electromotive Division.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

vette-kid said:


> Cool, very cool; but no. He does have a tablet, but it's a kids tablet and very limited capability. I think this is one of those things where a starter system makes sense for now and of we really get into it we can reinvest in a few years in something more capable.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


It does look very cool, granted. And if the flashy graphics are your cup of tea, you don't care about ergonomics, tactile feedback, or fine control, then that may be right up your alley. In which case, I would recommend it. For me, I find smartphones awkward, and tablets downright unmanageable as a throttle. Moreover, the only time I ever look at the throttle is to select a different loco. Everything else I do by touch. Throttle control, especially -- the getting the throttle exactly where you want it with a touch screen slider can be extremely touchy, even if you are looking at it. Before you get seduced by the flashy graphic interface, make sure you're ok with the potential drawbacks. And you really would need a separate smartphone (and charger). There is no way I would want my real smartphone, with all of its messages, notifications, etc., in front of me while I was trying to escape from the real world by running trains.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

DonR said:


> I'm not familiar with the NCE DCC Twin so I checked on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It seems the walk around controller for ez command is discontinued. Is there another handheld that will work with it? 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

vette-kid said:


> It seems the walk around controller for ez command is discontinued. Is there another handheld that will work with it?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk



I doubt that any other brand's hand held would work with
the EZ. My brother has a surplus EZ system with an
additional hand held controller that He may want to sell. If
you are interested PM me and I'll put you in contact. It
is in perfect operating condition.

Don


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