# Another Reverse Loop Question



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

So it's looking like my layout dream calls for 2 reverse loops, and I got questions.

First, can I even have 2 reverse loops in a single (DCC) layout?
Second, If it can, can they be back to back on a single main? By back to back I mean, train heads East on the main into loop A, reverses, then heads West on the main into loop B, reverses, heads East on the main to loop A, ad infinitum.

Can that even be done?


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

aircooled said:


> So it's looking like my layout dream calls for 2 reverse loops, and I got questions.
> 
> First, can I even have 2 reverse loops in a single (DCC) layout?


Yes, You will need a controler for each one.




aircooled said:


> Second, If it can, can they be back to back on a single main? By back to back I mean, train heads East on the main into loop A, reverses, then heads West on the main into loop B, reverses, heads East on the main to loop A, ad infinitum.
> 
> Can that even be done?


 
Yes.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

aircooled said:


> So it's looking like my layout dream calls for 2 reverse loops, and I got questions.
> 
> First, can I even have 2 reverse loops in a single (DCC) layout?
> Second, If it can, can they be back to back on a single main? By back to back I mean, train heads East on the main into loop A, reverses, then heads West on the main into loop B, reverses, heads East on the main to loop A, ad infinitum.
> ...


Yeppers not a problem, it's called a dog bone!
You will just need 2 reverse loop controllers!


----------



## NumberOne (Sep 19, 2012)

NIMT said:


> Yeppers not a problem, it's called a dog bone!
> You will just need 2 reverse loop controllers!


No, if there is nothing else unusual on the layout, you only need ONE reverse loop controller. Use the single controller on the main segment of the track and use NO controller for the reverse loop segments.

-Mark


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

NumberOne said:


> No, if there is nothing else unusual on the layout, you only need ONE reverse loop controller. Use the single controller on the main segment of the track and use NO controller for the reverse loop segments.
> 
> -Mark


 That is true if you only run one train.


----------



## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

I believe you must have two controllers because there are two different locations where the polarity will be different.


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

OK, confused again. 
For clarity, first is the config for the loops.
The top half (loop in/out) will just be a simple loop of track.
The bottom loop will be the upper right corner of the second pic.

What will I need?

I appreciate the help.


----------



## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm not really seeing how the top image relates to the bottom one, as the track arrangements in the images don't line up. However, the bottom image has no reversing sections.

So either there's a lot of missing information here, or you maybe just have the one reversing loop? Hard to say as there's obviously pieces missing from the layout diagram.



NumberOne said:


> No, if there is nothing else unusual on the layout, you only need ONE reverse loop controller. Use the single controller on the main segment of the track and use NO controller for the reverse loop segments.
> 
> -Mark


Very dangerous advice.

If you do have multiple reversing loops, you DO need to handle each one separately. Don't use the reversing switch/controller on the main section of track unless you can absolutely guarantee that the layout will NEVER have more than one train on it. If you run multiple trains you'll run into problems really quick if different trains are trying to use both reversing sections at the same time, as you'll be shorting out both ends of the block at the same time, which can't be corrected for as no matter what the polarity of the reversing unit it will still be shorted.


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

cv_acr said:


> I'm not really seeing how the top image relates to the bottom one, as the track arrangements in the images don't line up. However, the bottom image has no reversing sections.
> 
> So either there's a lot of missing information here, or you maybe just have the one reversing loop? Hard to say as there's obviously pieces missing from the layout diagram.


OK, hopefully this makes it clearer.

The first pic accurately depicts the section of concern.
The second pic is my main layout. The bottom half of the first pic is circled in the second. Let's call the stretch between turnouts the "bridge".
While multiple trains _may _(eventually) run on the main layout, only 1 train at a time will ever cross the bridge & use the loop. 

Tell me your thoughts. I don't mind having to switch polarity manually.


----------



## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

OK, then you only have the loop to worry about. Gap the track (both rails) at each end of the loop (beyond the switch) and wire it the normal way:










(If you're using DCC, the toggle switch can be replaced with an auto-reversing circuit.)


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

aircooled said:


> OK, hopefully this makes it clearer.
> 
> The first pic accurately depicts the section of concern.
> The second pic is my main layout. The bottom half of the first pic is circled in the second. Let's call the stretch between turnouts the "bridge".
> ...


I do not see a revers loop. All your tracks are going in the same direction.


----------



## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Southern said:


> I do not see a reverse loop. All your tracks are going in the same direction.


I'd think you would want a reversing loop across your main layout, so you can get back out to the rest of the layout. Maybe a wye...like a reverse loop but with more angst.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

The New Guy said:


> I'd think you would want a reversing loop across your main layout, so you can get back out to the rest of the layout. Maybe a wye...like a reverse loop but with more angst.


 
A reverse loop, or wye are used to change direction of a train. Not to gain accsess to another track that is still going in the same direction.


----------



## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

Aircooled, looking at your track plan, there is no reverse loop present.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Aircooled, 
Gotta run out for a while but I remember you entire track plan, and yes you have one reverse loop, but not two.
Attach your 2 scections of track plans as anyrail files and I'll put them together for you so everyone can get the big picture.


----------



## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

The New Guy said:


> I'd think you would want a reversing loop across your main layout, so you can get back out to the rest of the layout. Maybe a wye...like a reverse loop but with more angst.





Southern said:


> A reverse loop, or wye are used to change direction of a train. Not to gain accsess to another track that is still going in the same direction.


What do you mean same direction? As drawn once a train enters the loops the only way out is to back up. or hand of god.

or is there something in that picture I'm not seeing correctly?


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

The New Guy said:


> As drawn once a train enters the loops the only way out is to back up. or hand of god.
> 
> or is there something in that picture I'm not seeing correctly?


As suggested, attached is the full but somewhat condensed layout. I reconfig'ed the true reverse loop (top half) to get more open real estate. The areas of concern are circled. The main layout will (eventually) get a turntable to turn locos around. Until then, "hand of God" will serve that purpose.
One of my requirements is that trains "go somewhere & come back". That is the sole purpose of the top half layout. That and scenery.
Obviously, the top half contains a true, simple, reversing section. My question is about a trains return to the main (lower half) layout. Is/should the circled portion be wired as a reversing loop also? If not, when the top half gets reversed, so will the bottom half. Not really what I want, since a loco may still be running in the lower half.


----------



## waltr (Aug 15, 2011)

The only reverse loop is in that 'top half' of your layout. You just need the isolate both rails just past the turn-out for the loop then have a DPDT switch or a DCC reversing module on the isolated section.

A picture of what you need has been posted in this thread.


----------



## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

aircooled said:


> ...The main layout will (eventually) get a turntable to turn locos around. Until then, "hand of God" will serve that purpose.
> One of my requirements is that trains "go somewhere & come back". That is the sole purpose of the top half layout...


I'm with you on purpose - even in my mostly toy like world of Flyer they still need a reason to go IMO. 

I still prefer continuous looping though too. That's why I went with wye.








It allows for an East to West run, going somewhere, and a return West to East. Maybe a passing siding "out there" too. No hand of god needed. at least for that.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

New guy has shown how to make a continuous train run on
your layout and I think when you get things going it's an option
you will find fun to use...even so you still can schedule your
trains in a point to point route as is your preference.

With the addition of the red curve a 2nd reverse loop has been created.
It would be necessary to
isolate the entire set of tracks at the turnout where New guys
red curved track meets the single track main. Both red track
and black track would need insulators. The entire lower
oval layout would be powered thru the 2nd reverse loop
controller.

With DCC your locos direction or speed will not be affected
by the automatic operation of a reverse loop controller no matter where
they are on your layout. Think you'll have serious problems using a DPDT
switch for your reverse loop. 

There is no complicated wiring using the controllers. The input of
the controller comes from your main track. The output goes
to the isolated section. That's all there is to it.

Don


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

DonR said:


> The entire lower
> oval layout would be powered thru the 2nd reverse loop
> controller.


 
Not so. there is more than one way to wire this layout. If the new red curve is wired with a auto reverse module then the lower loops can be wired normally. Only part of the upper loop will need to be wired to another auto revers module.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

This is one way to do it.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

NIMT said:


> This is one way to do it.
> View attachment 26262


 Ya that is it.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Sean makes it so simple...and so right.

Air cooled had, in another thread, expressed
concern about complicated wiring. I had that
in mind when I suggested isolating the entire
lower part of the layout...

Don


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your ideas, & suggestions. I had not even considered the wye option. Having seen it, it makes perfect sense. That'll be the route I take, after the top half of the layout is in process. 

Thanks


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

The best part about adding the wye is that it gives the layout bi-directional operations, No "Big hand in the sky" operations needed to turn them around!


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

NIMT said:


> The best part about adding the wye is that it gives the layout bi-directional operations, No "Big hand in the sky" operations needed to turn them around!


Unfortunately, I couldn't do the Y w/o a lot of reconfig elsewhere. But, I think I've come up with an alternative to Big hand from the sky.


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

NIMT said:


> The best part about adding the wye is that it gives the layout bi-directional operations, No "Big hand in the sky" operations needed to turn them around!


Unfortunately, I couldn't do the Y w/o a lot of reconfig elsewhere. But, I think I've come up with an alternative to Big hand from the sky.

Now my question is on turntables. When I see this, does it mean this only rotates 90* or 1/4 of a full circle?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3171


----------



## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

aircooled said:


> Unfortunately, I couldn't do the Y w/o a lot of reconfig elsewhere...


Too bad, it seemed like an elegant solution.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Sure would have been nice if you could have
expanded that oval laterally to make room for
an additional track at an angle that becomes
a reverse loop. Think you had it on a drawing
at one point in the past.

Don


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

The turn table is 90' or 90 feet not 90* or 90 degrees.
But you don't want that turn tabe it's not DCC friendly or ready. 
Your going to want the newer 130' turn table.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2850

Yes I know it's pricey.
You can convert the 90' table to be DCC friendly but it's a fair amont of work for such a short table.


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

The New Guy said:


> Too bad, it seemed like an elegant solution.



As an I.T guy, it's hard to pass on "an elegant solution", so I worked at it some more.Really, the only change is that the "Y" becomes a switch. Will this work? Ignore the 2 turntables, because if this is workable, I wouldn't need one.
The other change is I've changed the orientation. Originally, walking into the room would lead (in a few steps) into the green area. Tight. With the orientation as shown, I can make the green area wider, and have more room on all side.
Thoughts?


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I like what you have done. Can you reach all of the track? Depending on the hight of the layout and your reach, you may not be able to get to all of it. 

with a reverse loop and a wye you will be able to keep trains moving all of the time.


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

Southern said:


> I like what you have done. Can you reach all of the track? Depending on the hight of the layout and your reach, you may not be able to get to all of it.
> 
> with a reverse loop and a wye you will be able to keep trains moving all of the time.


The Y I has be replaced by a turnout, near the upper right corner of the bottom half layout. I just added a better picture. 
Reachability shouldn't be a problem. There will be min. 2 feet clear around the sides, and 2 feet between tables. With the foldup, I should be able to reach everything.


----------



## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

when I said wye, I meant the section of track that forms a triangle on the right side of the layout. It is another great way to turn trains around.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes it is still a Wye, even if it doesn't have a Wye turnout in it.
I think you will be really happy with your track layout.:thumbsup:


----------



## aircooled (Jan 28, 2013)

Thank you all for you thoughts and advice. :thumbsup:
After 7 months, I have a layout!


----------

