# Stuck motor, Lionel 18064 Mohawk



## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I just received a 6-18064 Mohawk from eBay. It is supposed to be new but when I put it on the track the engine refused to move. To make a long story short when I dissembled the engine I discovered the motor was stuck. It vibrated and tried to move but it was jammed. I could only turn it a quarter turn by hand.

I decided to try and remove the motor to see if it was the motor or the mechanism but I cannot figure out how to remove it. All I see is a small screw underneath and what looks like a tiny ring holding it in. I removed the screw but if the ring is what is holding the motor on what is a proper way to release it?

I am attaching a couple of photos that show the motor and the small locking washer just above the drive shaft.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When you remove that screw, the motor doesn't slide out backwards?


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BigAl56 said:


> I just received a 6-18064 Mohawk from eBay. It is supposed to be new but when I put it on the track the engine refused to move. To make a long story short when I dissembled the engine I discovered the motor was stuck. It vibrated and tried to move but it was jammed. I could only turn it a quarter turn by hand.
> 
> I decided to try and remove the motor to see if it was the motor or the mechanism but I cannot figure out how to remove it. All I see is a small screw underneath and what looks like a tiny ring holding it in. I removed the screw but if the ring is what is holding the motor on what is a proper way to release it?
> 
> I am attaching a couple of photos that show the motor and the small locking washer just above the drive shaft.


I purchased a "brand new" in the box Rock Island Northern a few years back. Like your Mohawk, it refused to run..The problem was that this particular engine, ( and maybe yours ), was one of the worst engines ever produced from Lionel. It needed to be completely taken apart and re-bushed. I found this out through quite a bit of researching on the internet, and by talking to Lionel themselves. They agreed it was a piece of junk, but refused to do anything with it, and told me, more of less, to pound salt. I've only purchased one other Lionel engine, a Big Boy, and that has been in the shop 3 times since I bought it.Could it be possible that your engine has hardened grease in the gears, cusing it to not move?? I recently sold a Hudson on ebay that would not move either, but the sounds worked. After taking it down to my local shop, all they did was remove all the hardened grease in the engine, cleaned the chassis, and re-oiled, and it ran like a pip. Just throwing that out there.. good luck.... As a after-thought, the motor in my Hudson also refused to turn by hand. The grease had hardened so hard it was like cement.. Check it out before you go further. It might be a simple fix.r


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

And when I talk about vapor pressure of oils and greases I get a lot of flack from guys that don't know anything and prefer to stay that way.

I use motor oil and it has a vapor pressure of 10^-2 torr at 100 C. 1 torr is a millimeter of mercury. This data is published in the MSDS for motor oil. I could not find any data for motor oil at 22 C (room temperature), so I found some curves that show how the vapor pressure varied with temperature. The curves show that the vapor pressure of motor oil gets down to about 10^-5 at room temperature. At this vapor pressure it will take a long time to evaporate.

These greases that turn to cement obviously have a vapor pressure much higher than motor oil, and the manufacturers are hiding the data as I cannot find it on the Internet. I found a lot of data for Lucas Red 'n Tacky, but no data on vapor pressure. For a guy to say he has used it for 2 years without a problem is not convincing that it is OK. What happens after 20 years?

BTW, I have purchased locos that had hardened grease in them, and the price reflected the fact that the locos didn't work. So, in some ways, I like grease that turns to cement.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I agree with flyernut and servoguy (all that talk about vapor pressure makes my head hurt).

I don't have that loco, but have had similar experience with my trolley.

The wheels turned 1/4 turn and then stopped hard, as if there was a screw lodged in the teeth. This was after running it for several years.

The hardened grease had to be picked out with an awl.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Hardened grease can be softened and removed with naphtha. Will not harm plastics or paint.

Larry


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Hardened grease can also be softened with motor oil, however it takes some time.

I prefer to remove it. I used brake clean with the 2333. It also does not harm paint, and of course, the shell was off so it couldn't be harmed by the brake clean.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

I bought an old Berk that was frozen solid. Nearest to hand was a tin of gun oil, couple of squirts and away she went.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I recently had the opportunity to sell off a very large collection of Lionel engines and rolling stock. None of the engines saw any track time in approx 20 years or more. When I got the collection home, I tested each engine, and of the 15 or so engines I tested, none of them worked. I took everyone apart and found that on some the brushes were stuck to the brush tubes, grease had hardened, armatures were filthy and full of carbon, etc. Each engine only took about 20 minutes of time to get them all running, simply because of dirt, grime, and hardened grease.In fact, I just received a American Flyer engine I bought on ebay. The ad said the motor was stuck and would not run. It's a beautiful 302AC that is cosmetically at about 90% or better.It was stuck all right; the armature had frozen into the brush cap housing, and with a little clean-up, I scored a great little engine for $20 bucks..You never know.. I love buying engines that don't run, poor sellers!!


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

On the older stuff, most of us tend to "lick their chops" when a seller says either not running or not running well. All it usually takes is a bit of elbow grease and patience and they live again. Seldom if the seller posts decent picks do you get burned.

Carl


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Well I futzed with it all weekend. I disassembled the engine guts and boards to get to the gearbox where the drive shaft was frozen solid. I spayed solvent on the frozen gearbox and scooped out as much of the old crud as I could.
Once the drive shaft was removed I was able to determine the motor was not frozen it was the drive shaft.
I can now turn the motor by hand. I re-lubed the gearbox with Labelle and reassembled the drive shaft and reassembled the boards. Everything now turns by hand. Unfortunately there is something else wrong else with the motor as now the motor will not turn it only vibrates. I checked all the wiring and everything looks good. I did find a broken wire going to one of the brushes but I re soldered it and it measures good. I was never able to release the locking ring and remove the motor.

I also reached out to the seller and asked to send the engine back.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Remove all the wiring from the motor and wire it up per the diagram direct to the transformer. The motor should run. Reverse the brush connections to get the motor to run in the opposite direction. 
If the motor runs properly wired up this way, and does not run with the electronics properly wired in, the board is probably bad

Larry


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## hilldm (Dec 16, 2014)

These suggestions look helpful but I have a 2 year old Lionel Pennsylvania Flyer 0-8-0 engine Model 6-30089 that has become stuck. One of the bottom engine plate screws is stripped. Any suggestions on how to safely remove this "beast"? As you might have guessed, the other 5 screws came out cleanly!


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

There Phillips screws no? Stick a flat head in there or you can drill it out if your feeling confident


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## hilldm (Dec 16, 2014)

Yes they are tiny phillips screws. The flathead screw driver didn't fit either. I guess I will be confident and drill them out. If I reverse the drill will that possibly back the screw out?


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Are the threads stripped, or the slot in the head.

If the threads are stripped, put a flat head screwdriver under the head of the screw and pry up while turning the screw.

If the slot is stripped, drill away.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

hilldm said:


> Yes they are tiny phillips screws. The flathead screw driver didn't fit either. I guess I will be confident and drill them out. If I reverse the drill will that possibly back the screw out?


It will if you have an "Easy Out".

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-screw-extractor-set-40349.html


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## hilldm (Dec 16, 2014)

This worked great! Thanks for the help.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## hilldm (Dec 16, 2014)

*Lionel smoke alternative*

I am just getting into model railroading and wondered if anyone could suggest an alternative to the smelly Lionel smoke product. My wife is about to kick me and the trains to the curb since it smells up the entire house.
Help
Captain d


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you look at JT's MegaSteam, they have all sorts of scents. My wife really likes the Clove Sensation scent. I use the Christmas Pine around the holidays, works great.


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## hilldm (Dec 16, 2014)

Great thanks much!
:smilie_daumenpos:


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## BallisticBonobo (10 mo ago)

hilldm said:


> Great thanks much!
> :smilie_daumenpos:





BigAl56 said:


> I just received a 6-18064 Mohawk from eBay. It is supposed to be new but when I put it on the track the engine refused to move. To make a long story short when I dissembled the engine I discovered the motor was stuck. It vibrated and tried to move but it was jammed. I could only turn it a quarter turn by hand.
> 
> I decided to try and remove the motor to see if it was the motor or the mechanism but I cannot figure out how to remove it. All I see is a small screw underneath and what looks like a tiny ring holding it in. I removed the screw but if the ring is what is holding the motor on what is a proper way to release it?
> 
> I am attaching a couple of photos that show the motor and the small locking washer just above the drive shaft.


I realize how old this post is and how some may think it odd to post to such an old thread. I saw this today and felt like the I had the EXACT same issue as the original poster!
I bought a NOS sealed and in the original master carton Lionel 6-18064 Mohawk on eBay and opened it as soon as I got it in the train room. Oiled, greased, assigned a new Engine ID! No motion!😳 Violent humming under extreme power!🙄Seen it before. Opened the gearbox and cleaned 24 yr old grease(like WAX) off new gears and cleaned greased/oiled all moving surfaces including motor armature oil ports. Still with the VIOLENT humming, no motion. 
The PROBLEM was the armature on the open frame motor was jammed into the ASH PAN🤯 Some foam tape was misplaced and the single ash pan screw had the pan located on the armature instead of the foam. I didn’t have any foam(still don’t).I made long rubber spacers from a large O ring epoxied into place and trimmed to fit. This worked great for me. Your mileage may vary. TMCC users: reset code is 47 after you switch loco to PRG(tiny switch pushed to the back of locomotive)
I’ve encountered other issues with this Mohawk, but overall, I like it. Hope this helps.


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