# Back to the drawing board..... HO Scale



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

I've got another thread here that I had some help on with designing a layout. Cabledawg made a pretty good one, but when I built the tables it wouldn't work out right. So now it's back to the drawing board.... 

My benchwork is in an L-shape. It's basically 157" X 59", plus a 59" X 59". There are a few pics below. I built a couple mainlines with spurs, but I really don't like the way it is. The mainlines are too close together, and the outer track is too close to the edge. The benchwork isn't done yet, I'm gonna wrap the outside with 1/4" X 6" trim all the way around to cover the exposed edges of the foam and make a short wall. I'm using 22" curves on the outer line, and 18's in the inside.



























What I'm wanting to do is rebuild all of that into something maybe more useful. Does anyone have any suggestions? Later tonight I'll have an image of a drawing with the exact dimensions of the benchwork. I'm using the NS EZ-Track, and there are some sections of the steel track because I ran out of silver and have the other from another project. I'll either be replacing the steel track with NS, or junking it all and using Atlas track with roadbed. I already hate the switches I have. A Bowser engine I have gets hung on one of the switches, and another one causes derails everytime it's crossed.


----------



## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

One thing I would do is to add a cross over any where you have two parallel lengths of track, to make it much easier and more convenient to get from one loop to the other.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

In my defense, I converted someone's layout designed with 15"R curves to one with 18"R curves. 

So what part didnt work? I've seen only one other person try to build one of my layouts, so any feedback is good for me.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Actually, it didn't work because when I built the bench the L-shape was backwards from what was designed. Didn't realize that until it was all in place, my fault completely. After it was done, I added 10" extensions on each end and used 22" curves on one of the mainlines. Ended up with some bigger passenger cars and a longer engine then I originally intended to use.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

cabledawg said:


> In my defense, I converted someone's layout designed with 15"R curves to one with 18"R curves.
> 
> So what part didnt work? I've seen only one other person try to build one of my layouts, so any feedback is good for me.





jonyb said:


> Actually, it didn't work because when I built the bench the L-shape was backwards from what was designed. Didn't realize that until it was all in place, my fault completely. After it was done, I added 10" extensions on each end and used 22" curves on one of the mainlines. Ended up with some bigger passenger cars and a longer engine then I originally intended to use.



give the dawg a bone then.:thumbsup:

cabledawg, out of all the plans you made, only one built it?

what percentage is your grade?


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Well only one that I've seen. Cant remember his name but he has a build thread on here. A few folks have had life changes that prevented them from pursuing thier "dream layout" and some folks just wanted to see what could be done with what they had. It doesnt hurt my feelings, but I'm always curious to see what the final products look like. Like an automotive engineer that watches his first production car roll off the assembly line. 

Jonyb, you should have said something. In AnyRail, I can take the tracks and do a mirror flip and that will give me all new part numbers when everything is reversed. Oh well. So you need larger curves, huh? Give me a couple days, but it looks like you're on a roll with a new layout already. I might be able to take what you have now and tweek it. You're still using EZ track, right?


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

I thought I sent you a PM a couple weeks ago, but something fishy was going on with my computer at the time. I had actually placed an order for a few things, but when they never showed I went back to find that the order was never completed. That was with 2 different companies.

Let me draw up a diagram of the lengths and such tonight and post it up. That'll give an idea of what I'm doing, but yes, I think a mirror flip would do the job, but just add in 22's on the outside, and possibly a wye as previously mentioned.

Thanks!


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

You know what, I'm retarded. I really, really feel bad about this, but you did send me a PM back in the first part of June. So, while I work on your layout, I'll send you a picture of me and you can throw darts at it unitl I get done with the new one.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

cabledawg said:


> You know what, I'm retarded. I really, really feel bad about this, but you did send me a PM back in the first part of June. So, while I work on your layout, I'll send you a picture of me and you can throw darts at it unitl I get done with the new one.


haha, it's okay.... I don't like pestering people because I know how it feels. When I go to the lake people won't leave me alone about stereo installs and they just keep on until I hate it. This train layout is not a priority so I figured it would be taken care of sooner or later.......

Here's a rough sketch of my table and the dimensions. 1 thing I would like different from the original since it's been built, the switches from the outer mainline - it would be great if the longer cars that require 22" R could cross them. Maybe a wye to exit and a wye to re-enter would solve that? 

I downloaded SCARM a week ago and really couldn't do much on it. I wanted to put in the bench dimensions and build off that, but my imagination on building this stuff is weak.

Thanks for the help cabledawg. Are you modeling anything? If it's HO stuff, maybe I can send you a car or 2.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Yeah I dont know much about SCARM so I cant help ya much there. I'll work on a new design over the weekend and post up here with the new one.

I do model HO scale, but you dont need to send my anything. I appreciate the offer, though. It's just not my thing since I didnt buy AnyRail to make any profit, I simply put it to good use by helping others who dont want to spend the money for one or two layout designs.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Sounds great, if there's anything I can do, let me know. Aside from my full-time job I own a car/marine audio shop here in town, so if there's anything that you need from that aspect hit me up....


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

big ed said:


> what percentage is your grade?




I'm going with a guesstimate of 7-8%. The risers look to hit about 4" and counting the number of tracks to the bottom I can guess is about 4-4.5'. 

But that's about what the factory train sets came with back in the day, and I remember my cousin's layout being about that steep and we never had issues unless we hooked up all 12 cars to the SD40 (not sure, but I remember it had 6 axles). Not ideal, but easily done with a short train behind a quality GP or larger diesel or mid to large steamer.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

May be a little too much. I've got a DD40AX and 7 passenger cars that may have a hard time getting up it. I've run an F7A/B with 3 of the cars and the cars separate at the couplers about halfway up.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

So here is a start. Took some sections from the previous design and kept those, and made the entire outer loop in 22"R. Let me know what you think and I'll add/take off anything you like/dont like.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

I like that..... Is that still using the #5 turnouts, or something else? I think the part numbers are 44561 and 44562 (?).

Is there any room to have another mainline inside with shorter curves, kind of similar to what I did already?


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I can do anything you need me to do. But it seems you have a good start already, so I'm not sure what else you'd need 

I just realized I've got the wrong dimensions! Gotta fix that before I do anything else................


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok this one is much better. Outer loop is 22"R curves with #5 turnouts connecting to the inside loop. The inside loop is mixed with 22"R and 18"R curves. All the inside loop turnouts are standard snap track style, equal to about a #3 or 18"R curve. There is a yard, a runaround siding and two industry spurs that each have a few spurs off of them. The spurs you can rearrange as you see fit with buildings and such, it's not like you dont have the space there in the middle. The risers I moved to another section of the outer loop and you can see that with a 4" rise and 4% slope, you stay clear of the turnouts.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Looks great! Is there a riser kit that would work here? I've just got the cheap 18 pc. kit from Bachmann that goes with the EZ-crack. Do you have a parts list off of that?

Thanks Cabledawg!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

jonyb said:


> Looks great! Is there a riser kit that would work here? I've just got the cheap 18 pc. kit from Bachmann that goes with the EZ-crack. Do you have a parts list off of that?
> 
> Thanks Cabledawg!


Build your own? 
Mold it in, Screen/plaster?
Make one out of wood timbers to resemble trestles?
Maybe use some kind of bridge built in too, on the grade?

Just some thoughts.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

jonyb said:


> Looks great! Is there a riser kit that would work here? I've just got the cheap 18 pc. kit from Bachmann that goes with the EZ-crack. Do you have a parts list off of that?
> 
> Thanks Cabledawg!


You can use the riser kit you have now, or build your own. I was just showing you that you can squeeze a 4" rise on the layout and still have a decent slope.

I can get you a parts list tonight. I would have done it at lunch, but I was out in the field, so you'll have to wait a few more hours


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

big ed said:


> Build your own?
> Mold it in, Screen/plaster?
> Make one out of wood timbers to resemble trestles?
> Maybe use some kind of bridge built in too, on the grade?
> ...


That would be a last resort, but I guess it's possible. My problem is that I'd have the grade all screwed up.



cabledawg said:


> You can use the riser kit you have now, or build your own. I was just showing you that you can squeeze a 4" rise on the layout and still have a decent slope.
> 
> I can get you a parts list tonight. I would have done it at lunch, but I was out in the field, so you'll have to wait a few more hours


Not in a rush, as you can tell. Probably won't work on it again for another few days. Thanks though, I can use this to print the layout in vinyl for my switchpanel.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

jonyb said:


> That would be a last resort, but I guess it's possible. My problem is that I'd have the grade all screwed up.
> 
> 
> Not in a rush, as you can tell. Probably won't work on it again for another few days. Thanks though, I can use this to print the layout in vinyl for my switchpanel.


Start from the highest point and work the grade down. 
When designing a grade, it is easiest to start at the top and work down. In almost every case, the rise will be less variable than the run. Find the highest point of the grade, for example where the track needs to cross over another, and work back to the bottom.
Generally speaking, the longer you can make the grade the better. 
And what your doing, your not crossing any track right?
You could make it a little lower.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks for the advice Big Ed. I'll look at it once it's all assembled. May go about 2-3" or so.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Track & Objects
44501, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44501. Curve radius 18", angle 30º 12
44503, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44503. Curve radius 22", angle 22.5º	40
44511, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44511. Straight 9". 66
44512, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44512. Straight 3". 2
44513, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44513. Straight 2 1/4". 1
44514, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44514. Straight 4 1/2". 2
44561, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44561. Left turnout 9". radius 18" (remote) 4
44562, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44562. Right turnout 9". radius 18" (remote) 7
44565, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44565. Left turnout #5, 11 1/2". (remote) 2
44566, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44566. Right turnout #5, 11 1/2". (remote) 2
44591, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44591. Buffer/Bumper 2 3/4". 9
44592-1, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-1. Straight 3/4". 1
44592-2, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-2. Straight 1". 3



The quantities are the end numbers on the right. Because of text formatting (I copied and pasted) they dont show up properly on the forum, so if you get confused, let me know and I'll hand type them in


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks sir! I had it figured pretty close, but wanted to see exactly what was needed before I ordered.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You da' dawg, Dawg! Very kind of you to continue to help out so many members with your track planning skills!

TJ


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Yeah, the more I look at this one, the more I think it's perfect for my plans. We're all pretty lucky to have a member on here that is generous enough to do this for us.....


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

No problem guys! I'm just glad you guys like the layouts.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

I've made a little progress lately on finishing up the area and benchwork. Still a lot to go, but it's starting to look more finished, other than the track and layout.

I finished all the cabinets below the bench, have them all fastened together, and wrapped the layout with 1X6 Pine. I've only completed the 2 long sides and still have some to go. In the pics, the cabinets at 1 end are moved out so I could finish the trim. From the long end, nothing underneath the bench will be exposed, just solid cabinets. I built a 2X4 table at one end that slides under the bench to assemble structures and repair rolling stock also. It has a 2X3 piece of glass, with a 1X2 piece of masonite filling the gap and keeping the glass from having exposed edges. The trim around the table is flush with the glass so there aren't any edges there either.

Before:



















After:



























The display, loaded up











First building and one of the engines, an Intermountain Railway F7A & B with DCC & sound.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice and neat.:thumbsup:

I wish my garage looked like yours. (only in my dreams)hwell:
Nice cabinet job.:thumbsup:
I guess getting to the wires under the table is no problem?
Nice shelf too, are you a carpenter?

Get rid of the vehicle in the other bay and look at all the room for expansion you will have.

Don't you know, garages are not for cars no more!:laugh:

You are doing away with a grade now?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

My garage has three cars in it, no room for trains.


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

big ed said:


> Nice and neat.:thumbsup:
> 
> I wish my garage looked like yours. (only in my dreams)hwell:
> Nice cabinet job.:thumbsup:
> ...


Thanks for the compliments. The garage looked like trash before last Winter. There were holes in the walls, unfinished sheetrock from termite damage repairs, and the garage only had 1 single bulb 8' light fixture. We fixed the walls, painted them and the ceiling, hung 5 2-bulb 8' light fixtures, 2 black ceiling fans, painted all the trim and shelving white, and put down black cove base. The floor was also cleaned and expoxied with that crappy kit from Lowe's. 

The back of the benchwork that's not pictured won't be filled with cabinets. I plan to do black curtains on that side, so it hides everything and I can still access the underside all the way around. The cabinets are only 2' deep, so I can still reach everything on that end. I managed to fasten the trim from the backside above the cabinets too.

Not a carpenter, but own a car/marine audio/security business aside from my swing shift job at an industrial facility that enriches Uranium  All the benchwork and the shelf display was built from 3/4" MDF and 1/4" masonite.

Maybe one day the car won't be in the garage anymore, we've got another garage for cars and work, but for now, it is what it is 



gunrunnerjohn said:


> My garage has three cars in it, no room for trains.


I keep all my stuff in another garage, like said above. Wifey still wants to park in the front....

This is where the other toys are:













The layout isn't done, and probably won't be for a while. With cabledawg's last revision for me, I still need $300 in track from what I already have. That includes 4 #5 turnouts, more 22's, several more pieces of straight track, and a few RH turnouts. 

The more I operate on this track, the more I think I made a mistake buying that EZ-Track. Seems I can't hardly keep anything on the track, no matter how much weight is added. I hate to spend more money on that track when I could spend just a few more dollars to have all of it in Code 100 Atlas track, but I can't find any #5 turnouts that my track was designed with. Any suggestions? I'm kind of to a point where I either need to buy the track to finish, or start over with the same layout but different track.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Jonyb,

I have to agree with Ed's comments, above. Yours is one of the neatest layout work areas I've seen. Very nice cabinetry, light, storage, etc. Well done! Thanks for sharing.

TJ


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks for the compliments TJ!


----------



## jonyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Just ordered more track! Should have more updates next week and it'll look more like what cabledawg drew up for me...


----------



## penlu (Dec 9, 2010)

Wow! Like has been said, I wish my garage looked like that! Mine is an old converted century old house with old fashioned fired block walls. But it is amenable to what a lot of you would consider a huge layout. As I go along with it, I find I wish I had designed the benchwork a little better, as it was designed for 18" radius and some of my locos/rolling stock won't handle that. Oh well. 

Cabledawg, I'm using a lot of your suggestions you did for me!


----------

