# New Transformer or Refurbished?



## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

I took a bunch of Bachmann HO trains I had laying around to the local train store, and the store is giving me a $450 credit for the trains. So, i decided that I would like to get a good transformer to run my 400E, because I need one badly.

The guy said he'd be willing to work with the price on anything he has in stock, which is a few refurbished ZWs, one refurbished KW, and a few 1033s, with the prices decreasing with wattage accordingly. I think he had the ZW listed at $275, or $1/watt.

Now, my concern is spending that kind of coin on a refurbished transformer and having it crap out on me in a year.

Looking online, it looks like I could get a new GW-180 for the same price as the refurbished ZW, so should I go that route instead?

Any other suggestions on transformers to run this 400E?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

MuhThugga said:


> I took a bunch of Bachmann HO trains I had laying around to the local train store, and the store is giving me a $450 credit for the trains. So, i decided that I would like to get a good transformer to run my 400E, because I need one badly.
> 
> The guy said he'd be willing to work with the price on anything he has in stock, which is a few refurbished ZWs, one refurbished KW, and a few 1033s, with the prices decreasing with wattage accordingly. I think he had the ZW listed at $275, or $1/watt.
> 
> ...


How big is the layout going to be?
The engine should run even with a little transformer, but how many accessories and lights and how big the layout is going to be comes into play. Are you going to be running hands on? Old school?

I say get the largest transformer that you can afford, the more Watts the better.
I never had a GW. There are a ton of large transformers out there.
I have a ZW 275 for my trains, I also have 2 CW80's for lights and things (only using one so far), I got a little 60watt for the turntable. (overkill) but I had it.
I got a box with a bunch more, some prewar.

$275 sounds high. But I guess they would fix it for free with a warranty?

You should get more replies from the electronic gurus shortly.
This is just my 2 cents.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Is this for HO or O scale?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

275$ sounds high to me, but I'm cheap! Maybe someone on the fourm has something reliable and cheap.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

rrgrassi said:


> Is this for HO or O scale?


O.....the 400e is an O locomotive.


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## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

400E is Lionel Standard gauge. It is an early 1930s engine.

The transformer won't be powering anything other than the locomotive and the two lighted passenger cars. I have enough track to do a loop on a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

I asked about a warranty, and was told that he'd guarantee that it worked when I took it home. Not really leaving me with much assurance a year from now, though.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There's no way I'd pay $275 for a PW-ZW! That's highway robbery! For around $300-325 you can buy an MTH Z400 which is a MUCH better transformer! Not only does it offer more power than the ZW (about twice the real power), but it has whistle and bell buttons, not to mention volt and ammeters.

There are reputable rebuilders of PW-ZW transformers that sell them in the $150-175 range and offer a real warranty, not something lame like "as long as it doesn't leave the store"!


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## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

Is that $300-$325 used? Looking briefly online, they seem to list for $400-$450 new.

What about the Lionel GW-180? It lists for $275 new. Only powers one track, but it looks like the outputs are the same.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

MuhThugga said:


> 400E is Lionel Standard gauge. It is an early 1930s engine.
> 
> The transformer won't be powering anything other than the locomotive and the two lighted passenger cars. I have enough track to do a loop on a 4x8 sheet of plywood.
> 
> I asked about a warranty, and was told that he'd guarantee that it worked when I took it home. Not really leaving me with much assurance a year from now, though.


Sorry I was guessing O, I was in a rush to get out the door.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Forget the GW-180, it's just a CW-80 on steroids. It consists of the PowerHouse 180 brick and a controller box that looks just like the CW-80.

I was quoting used, as the transformer you were looking was also used. I've seen the Z4000 go for as little as $300 in excellent condition, and they're a transformer that you'll be able to grow a lot with! If you're into remote control, you can also add one of the MTH 40-4001 Z4000 Remote Control and have walk-around control of the transformer! You won't get that with the PW-ZW.


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## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

Alright. I'll take a look at the Z4000. I have a $450 credit with the store, so I could even buy one new with the credit.

Either way, trading a bunch of Bachmann HO stuff that has been laying around for God knows how long for a new transformer isn't a bad deal, I think.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm pretty impressed with my Z4000, but I confess I got it at a much better price during my MTH ASC classes.  I just picked up the Z4000 remote system, but I haven't tried it yet. The cool thing about the Z4000 remote is I can also use my DCS remote to control the Z4000 with just the receiver connected to the transformer.


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

I agree that a ZW in good working condition should go for less than $275. However, lots of us attach great nostalgia to these because we had them as kids. I hunt down ZWs whenever I can, take them apart and try as best as I can to bring them up to top condition. I have never kept any Lionel, MARX, or AF more modern than about 1990, and most is PW or pre-war, so I am strictly old school and analog. Strange, because I used to build TTL logic stuff way back in the day when I had hair and bell bottom trousers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have no problem with nostalgia, but I just don't pay a huge premium for it.  Over in the OGR forum there's a guy that does refurb ZW's and charges $160 for them. From the description and the folks singing his praises, that's a pretty good deal. 

My comments here are strictly on the power potential and value, no nostalgia involved.


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## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

I'll be heading to the train store again on Saturday. They have an original GG1 that my dad wants to look at. He's always loved that engine.


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## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have no problem with nostalgia, but I just don't pay a huge premium for it.  Over in the OGR forum there's a guy that does refurb ZW's and charges $160 for them. From the description and the folks singing his praises, that's a pretty good deal.
> 
> My comments here are strictly on the power potential and value, no nostalgia involved.


I got dual control transformer for almost the cost of shipping because one side didn't work very good. Spent an hour, a old diode, and a couple pieces if wire and now it works like it was new.

K


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## MuhThugga (Apr 2, 2013)

Well, my dad decided to show up today with a refurbished Type R Trainmaster transformer to run the 400E. It works great. I definitely wasn't expecting that since he knew I was planning on using my store credit to get a new transformer. 

He also ordered himself the Peanuts Christmas train set...the same set that I already bought him for Christmas and have sitting right here. :lol_hitting:


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