# Power & Control (Simple but confusing)



## jeffdoo (Jul 16, 2011)

If there is a location with the details please feel free to give the URL, I've been looking on/off for the past week.

Basically I have the Lionel Polar Express Heavyweight which requires O54 track (lots of boring history probably, but it's wife approved). And, wouldn't you know it I have literally just enough room to fit an O54 oval but nothing bigger. So after months of hunting and purchasing the train is only missing one car, so I start looking for track and discovered that Lionel doesn't make O54 FasTrack (seriously?). So, not wanting to have the "old school" style track I purchase MTH O54 RealTrax which I do not find easy to connect by the way.... and that's where I sit, train & track but no power or controller.

My question is what's the best way to provide power and control the engine while getting all the "bells and whistles" available? The Lionel manuals are all over the place as I read them regarding the parts required. But, when I read just the manual for the Legacy Cab-2 it would appear I need an MTH RealTrax Lighted LockOn, MTH Wiring Harness(?), MTH Transformer, and the Lionel Legacy Cab-2. Is this correct? And, I could probable google it but while I'm asking (and thinking) is the middle rail the ground or hot?

And, why does nobody have stock for the Legacy Cab-2?

I could probably go without the Legacy Cab-2 but I'm thinking (hoping) this could become a little bigger in the future...

Thanks!

- Jeff


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, you can fire up the Legacy controller with nothing more than an old Post-war transformer.

The middle rail on any O-scale layout is the "hot" rail. However, the TMCC CAB-1 or Legacy CAB-2 command base connect to the outside or "common" rails.

If you have a transformer connected to the RealTrax loop, you can just connect the TMCC/Legacy base to the "U" terminal of the transformer and start running trains.

As far as stock on the Legacy system, there seems to be some sort of parts shortage right now, so Lionel hasn't been shipping them. I'm hearing sometime in the fall before they'll be available again. Oddly enough, MTH isn't shipping their Remote Commander system now either, maybe the same issue?

If you're interested in possibly going the TMCC CAB-1 route, send me a PM and I'll make you a deal on that setup, I have an extra.


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## jeffdoo (Jul 16, 2011)

John,

Thank you for the quick reply, I did read shortly after you posted but wasn't able to reply. Also, thank you for the offer on the CAB-1 but I already have a CAB-2 coming from a shop in California which should be here tomorrow.

A similar topic though...

My son's room has a 2000 MTH RailKing Penn S2 Turbine setup running around his ceiling. The engine started having fits and appears to have a short, so I grabbed one off eBay which needed a little care given. This afternoon I was trilled to have it up and running, going round and round his ceiling. Unfortunately worked called (literally) and I couldn't get the train to stop so I left it for ~20 minutes running at 90% (maybe 100%) power. Once the call was over I stopped the train so I could reassemble the signals and such. When everything was ready I attempted to start everything again, and the engine fired but wouldn't move. Further investigation revealed the "connector" wasn't showing it's green light. So I unscrewed one wall of track, pulled the "connector" (power/DCS/etc), undid it's three screws and after opening I immediately smelled burnt electronics  ....

So, question... I don't know the exact dimensions of the room, but lets assume 12'x12' and the track runs near the ceiling around the entire room... Is the size too large for the "connector"? The train never ran for long periods of time in the past so I'm wondering if the one connector couldn't handle it and I need more connections along the route?

The nearest thing I can find today is a "TH 50-1033 DCS Remote Commander Set" ... 

The included transformer with the set says it's a 160W ... 

I'm probably babbling now, so I'll leave it for any help or question you might have so I can get his train up and running again.

Thanks again!

- Jeff


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You should certainly have more than one feed, you're talking about 50 feet of track.

What is the "connector" where you didn't get the green light, and where do you smell electrical burning smells?

Are you saying you have the DCS Remote Commander, and that's the thing with the light? I didn't think the 2000 S2 Turbine had PS2, isn't that a PS1 engine?

FWIW, I have the DCS Remote Commander for the one PS/2 locomotive I have, I run it in passive mode with the transformer directly connected and the DCS system just connected to the track. Running the power through the DCS Remote Commander isn't necessary.


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## jeffdoo (Jul 16, 2011)

Sorry, I really don't know what to call the part, there isn't even a number on it. But, your statement alone is enough to tell me I've probable burned it up...

The "connecter" (no part number) is a device which plugs into the track (two prongs which insert underneath, no different than the current connectors today to supply power), on the reverse side it has Proto-Dispatch, Proto-Cast, and power plugs, and finally on the top is the RF receiver and a green light (now red in the current model?). This is the piece that smells of burnt electronics when I opened the case.

After looking more closely at the transformer, it's a MTH Z750 which the engine manual clearly states as a 75W transformer. As for the engine, the manual states it's Proto-Sound 2.0 DCS, although it does say it's a 6-8-6 Bantam Turbine (not the S2 I said above).

But, I guess the more correct question at this point is how do I properly power the track so I can run the engine with six cars and a lighted caboose?

So much for the days of the 70s and early 80s when I used to play with trains.

Thanks!

- Jeff


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You seem to be describing the DCS Remote Commander track receiver, is this a module that's about 3" on a side and 1" thick?

The Bantam Turbine is a smaller version of the full sized S2, and it did come in PS2.

You can connect that transformer directly to the track pickup and run the PS2 engine in conventional mode. You'll have to see what happened to your DCS receiver, likely sending it back to MTH will be the solution.

I'm guessing this was a packaged set and the control came with the set?



Pictures of these items would be a big help in identifying what you have.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FYI, this is the DCS Remote Commander, it indeed ships with many boxed sets from MTH. Is this something like what you have?


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## jeffdoo (Jul 16, 2011)

John,

Here is the link to the MTH web site ... what you're showing I was referring to as the new "connector" ....

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/50-1013

I'm still thinking the part is shot which isn't a big deal, lesson learned. But, the true big deal is getting the proper solution in place to power/run the train. If that means a different transformer, TIUs, and/or controller then so be it.... The IR method is very difficult to get working when you have to point at the ceiling in the general area so it can pickup the reflection and forget about control if the train is passing the IR location. 

Thanks again for the help!

- Jeff


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, that's just a simple track lockon, probably got too much current. Pop the top off and see what it looks like.


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## jeffdoo (Jul 16, 2011)

John,

There isn't anything much exciting inside.... Usual computer board with a few small chip and other parts. In other words (from my experience) not worth saving since something burned up.

I had to run up to Little Choo-Choo in Spencer and talked to them. I picked up two MTH LockOns and figured I would run a bus wire 1/2 way around the track this time to the middle of the front windows. I also purchased a new DCS Command System (~$40, the one you pictured) which should be here next week.

On another topic, I finally got my Polar Express train running using a 65W power supply I had laying around. I'm waiting for the right harness to attach the Z1000 to the MTH LockOn, can't believe I ordered the wrong part. This is the first time I've purchased train components and not a box set, what a difference. The simple fact I can run the train at such low speeds and it's rock solid. 

I'm seriously considering putting a train around the home office ceiling, but I'll be doing it differently than my son's. Thinking about a suspended setup for the home office instead of a shelf setup like my son's room... I need to think about it, but I didn't receive any objections from my wife when I tossed out the idea.... 

Thanks again! Will keep you updated....

- Jeff


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Glad you're making progress.  Remember, the DCS Remote Commander is only good for running a single train at a time, and you must have it reset to factory defaults in order for the DCS Remote Commander to recognize it.


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## jeffdoo (Jul 16, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Glad you're making progress.  Remember, the DCS Remote Commander is only good for running a single train at a time, and you must have it reset to factory defaults in order for the DCS Remote Commander to recognize it.


DCS Remote Commander arrived yesterday! One train is all I need it to be able to run, and boy does this thing fly now! I wanted to start everything simple so I only connected one lockon, wired it to the DCS unit with the (wrong) wiring harness I got for the Polar Express setup, and connected the Z750 to the DCS unit.

First, I couldn't believe it didn't come with a manual. So after doing all of the idiot proof parts I had to find the manual on the MTH web site. Now guess what I learn.... The DCS Remote Commander is only supposed to be used w/3 volt engines and I think my son's engine is a 9 volt (has the 9v battery). Anyway, I went for broke and sure enough it runs but I'm wondering if I'll be in trouble later. This remote is a lot nicer then what came with the set back in 2001(ish). It's much easier to get to the crew cab sounds, none of this bell/whistle sequence. 

Currently it flies around his ceiling, significantly faster than I ever observed with the other system. Also, the system is always live, the track is "hot" and the you can actually run the engine without sound (was confusing the first time)! Even though you plugin to the DCS block and then wiring harness to the LockOn, it's always on. So tomorrow I'll be replacing the outlet with an Insteon unit and the simple ceiling light paddle in his room with a full keypad, so we can remotely power the track/accessories on/off. (Home automation is my other hobby)

Do I need to be concerned the engine has a 9 volt rechargeable battery but the manual says only compatible with 3 volt engines?

Thanks!

- Jeff

ps: Now seriously considering a suspended train in the home office... a dual track with a set of switches for swapping tracks. I can't imagine putting this PE train back in boxes... of course I'll need another train for the other track


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If it run, which I've been told it will, there are no worries. You must have a very early PS2 locomotive, the older ones I've seen had 5V batteries, then they went to the 3V electronics. I've never actually seen the 9V model, though an Internet search confirms that there was a PS2 with the 8.4V rechargeable.

You can't hurt it running it with the DCS Remote Commander, so if it works, go for it.


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