# Live Steamers unite!



## mtoney

I have drug my friend Steve into the burnt finger brigade. He ordered a Regner Lumberjack kit today, along with all the extras like the headlight and steam up supplies. I myself have had many live steamers but didnt stable one recently till today. My wife bought me a Regner Willi second hand off fleabay saving us about $180 off what a new one would cost. I feel the Regner easy line of engines are absolutly the best first engine for the newbie in live steam. With gear reduction, they will not run away like a rod engine. They are very suitable for ground level line where chasing a run away engine could end badly with the engine derailing and the engineer possibly tripping and falling in the chase. They are well built in Germany by a well known company, well they are well known over in Europe. You can purchase Regner thru the Train Department's website. Jason Kovac just took over operation of The Train department not long ago, he also stocks Accucraft(made in China) live steam engines, Roundhouse(made in the UK)live steam engines, supplies and of coarse Regner. Popular Regner models are the entry level Willi and Konrad, the larger twin cylinder version of Willi called Chaolner and the Lumberjack with its more American profile and size that suits 1:20.3 logging lines. Live steam is a real blast to operate, espicaly once you learn your engines habits and style of running. Steaming up on a cool fall morning or even in the dead of winter with the nice tall steam plumes are a sight to behold. A Willi can be had for just under $700 brand new and Lumberjack with the extras is just a tad over $1000. I myself am removing all track power from my outdoor layout, running just live steam. I do plan to convert my LGB feldbahn diesel to onboard battery power with a selector switch in the near future as well. Cheers Mike


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## Guest

I've done live steam. Bigger stuff....and #1 gauge.
Got an Aster C&S Mogul, and a FrankS.
I just don't have the time to mess with them now. They sit on display.
Yer right....the geared engines are more docile, don't run away.
Dave


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## tjcruiser

Shaygetz has some great video / posts of his steam tractor on the forum ... will have to dig for a link ...

TJ


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## mtoney

Frank S is a nice starter engine if you have a level railway or its fitted with RC. I have owned everything from an Aster Pannier Tank that I built from a kit, a couple Frank S engines(LGB/Aster), a Pearse Countess, a Keith Mansion built class A Climax, an Accucraft Edrig was my last live steamer. I started out with a Mamod steam loco, dumped way to much money into it with upgrades to make it somewhat run. A geared engine is way better for the live steam newbie, it wont run away, at full bore these things run at a brisk walk at best. And being an 0-4-0, will handle R1 curves, rough track work and hill and dale railroading like my garden line is. If I tried to run a rod engine, even one with RC, it would be a work out with my hill and dale track work that follows the lay of the land, check railed curves and LGB R1 radius track I would be in for a work out. Where is the enjoyment if your doing all that? With the Regner engine, I can set the throttle, give the flywheel a flick and off she goes whilest I sip my beverage and enjoy the day. In time I plan to upscale it to 7/8th's scale. I am hoping to do my part to "grow" the live steam side of this scale. I am planning a "Micro" layout that is portable that I can take to the shows and demostrate the Willi and what can be done in a small space with large scale trains. Once Willi arrives later this week, I plan to see what his min radius is, then I can plan my micro layout. Cheers Mike


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## shaygetz

The Regner Willi is sweet...:thumbsup::thumbsup:



tjcruiser said:


> Shaygetz has some great video / posts of his steam tractor on the forum ... will have to dig for a link ...
> 
> TJ


Thanks TJ...here's one...

http://misterbobsmodelworksemporium.blogspot.com/2008/01/more-fun-with-my-mamod-te1a-steam.html

I'd like to set this Krick Model 2 on some form of Shay or Climax mechanism, finding 45mm wheelsets/trucks in a scrap box at a train show is hard to do...

http://misterbobsmodelworksemporium...ick-model-2-two-cylinder-marine-steam_24.html


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## mtoney

Here is my normal source for Regner http://www.thetraindepartment.com/ Jason is great to deal with, my friend just ordered a Lumberjack today. I have 2 old Kalamazoo arch bar trucks that I would let go. $20 shipped to your door, complete with wheels and LGB loop style couplers.


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## seabilliau

What is the best resource for learning about getting into live steam? These Regners are absolutley beautiful. I found the train department website and saw that Reynauld's has them as well. But, what if I am just starting out and would like to start small? Is there anything not as pricey to learn on?


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## THE TYCO MAN

Lovely steam engine Bob! Literally now!


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## shaygetz

THE TYCO MAN said:


> Lovely steam engine Bob! Literally now!


Thanks, I picked it up at a train show in fair condition, having been used as a G scale flat car load for 20 years I fixed a boiler leak, cleaned and oiled it and it fired right up. Even though they were made in the early 1980s, I've only found 4 others, they apparently are quite rare. The engine was offered with the Krick model boat "The Patricia" back in 1982. The parts are obviously Wilesco, another great steam engine maker, but they won't even acknowledge that the motors are out there. Krick boats have come with Regner engines ever since.

Here's my Wilesco D10, a birthday gift from my mother-in-law...


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## shaygetz

seabilliau said:


> But, what if I am just starting out and would like to start small? Is there anything not as pricey to learn on?


While eBay can get rich, it's not unusual to find a good engine for under $75. My Wilesco D10 cost $55 shipped (can run $100-125) and my Mamod TE1a traction engine was purchased for $75 (again $100-125 is typical). Both are classic beginners engines that give years of service.


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## shaygetz

mtoney said:


> I have 2 old Kalamazoo arch bar trucks that I would let go. $20 shipped to your door, complete with wheels and LGB loop style couplers.


Appreciate the offer Mike, I'm hoping to find something in metal with sprung wheelsets that can be hooked up to a gear box with universals...


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## seabilliau

shaygetz said:


> While eBay can get rich, it's not unusual to find a good engine for under $75. My Wilesco D10 cost $55 shipped (can run $100-125) and my Mamod TE1a traction engine was purchased for $75 (again $100-125 is typical). Both are classic beginners engines that give years of service.


Thanks. I'll take a look. Can;t wait. Another thing that will make the sgnificant other role her eyes.


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## mtoney

The Willi at $680ish is about as cheap as a good gear driven starter engine gets. You can find the Accucraft Ruby, a 1:20.3 0-4-0 for around $500 for the screwdriver kit thats already painted, or assembled for around $600 but the quality is a bit dodgy and it has some well known issues that need to be corrected/modified from the factory. So at the built price on ebay, your better off to get a Regner Willi. Unfortunatly, the $600-700 price range is where live steam starts out at. From there the sky is the limit. The upcoming Aster live steam UP Challenger is over $14K!!! A simple coal fired 0-4-0 from the UK is around $6000. An Accucraft coal fired D&RGW K28 is $6500. Keep in mind that all the Accucraft are of Chinese construction. To some this isnt a problem, but to others, espicaly with a pressure vessel(boiler), it is. The build quality from Regner is top quality Germain engineering. Same for Roundhouse, thier Sammi in thier beginner series at $730 from The Train Dept is a bargain. That series does need run in, usualy 10-20 steam ups before the cylinders "bed in" and the run times go way up! Its a saddle tank of Porter heritage, or you can go with the Millie if you like the UK tank engine look. Its worth spending more for one good engine than skimping and regretting it later. The stuff from mamod in the railroad engines, is best left alone. IMHO, go for a Willi or Konrad. I know that Jason has a Willi on order, will be here around Christmas time frame. A depost, he does checks or credit cards will reserve it with your name on it. Sell a few of the smaller scale things to pay for it, thats what I am doing. I had several trains I didnt run or seldom ran. Thier sale will pay for my engine! Mike


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## mtoney

The headache with Mamods is they use a dry pellet to fire them, smells like sh-t and are expensive. The railroad locomotives can be upgraded with a meths burner or gas burner, but then you have to watch the soft soldered boiler. By the time you upgrade a Mamod, your paying as much as buying a Regner. The traction engine is fun, but cant actualy do much. The Wilisco version is better, has a stationary cylinder and slip eccentric valve gear, but still uses the stinky pellets. Also check out Steam in the Garden Magazine, dedicated to small scale live steam (non ride on stuff), they have a great website. Also most large scale websites, ie mylargescale.com and espicaly G scale central as its more UK based and they are HUGE into live steam garden lines. Then there is the 7/8ths scale forum, also very live steam based. Yes its an expensive corner of the large scale hobby, but keep in mind that most are made in very short batches, all made by hand one at a time. That costs lots of money. More websites to wet your whistle, try Roundhouse Engineering, Accucraft and Accucraft UK, Regner has one but its in German but fun to stumble around and look at pictures. Also you can watch EbayUK, most sellers will ship to the USA, there is a Willi on there right now for a really good price with just a couple days left. Mike


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## mtoney

Here are some steamies for sale: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200852219853?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
not sure if the seller of the Willi will ship to the USA, but wouldnt hurt to ask

The seller of the Accucraft Edrig will. There is a cab kit to convert the Edrig to 7/8th's scale called Baldrig. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121028885809?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## shaygetz

Alas...one day I shall own a rail runner...

Fortunately Mike, my Mamod is pre-1975 with the spirit burner. One of the things I like about it is the woodsy scent of burning alcohol, allowing me to fire it inside. The Wilesco, on the other hand, burns those blasted Esbit stink bombs... My Krick fires quite well with the Mamod burner, so I'm two for three for indoor engines.:thumbsup:

My tutorial video shows the spirit burner...


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## mtoney

excellent shaygetz. Those darn esbit tablets stink something terrible! Hopefully he will join the burnt finger brigade!


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## tjcruiser

Shay -- you have the most entertaining videos ... always well done!


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## shaygetz

mtoney said:


> Hopefully he will join the burnt finger brigade!


:laugh::laugh: Ahhhh yes...I well remember the day I said, _"I need not buy gloves. I shall not do as others before me and burn me fingers on yon boiler. Nay I shall raise the bar on boiler smartness."_...and...promptly found out how hot the exhaust steam was. Sigh. 



tjcruiser said:


> Shay -- you have the most entertaining videos ... always well done!


Thanks TJ, that one was a hoot to put together...


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## mtoney

Here are two videos, just click on the image to link to the video, as well as some updated pics of my Regner Willi. The last pic shows Willi as he is now, with the live steam side of the pipes lagged to keep thermal loss down, exhaust plumbed back to the chimney and with several runs under his belt now. Mike


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## tjcruiser

MT,

Great fun ... wonderful engineering!

I'm hoping you can post a pic of the underside of that loco, showing the wheels that can be adjusted to different gauges (as I think you mentioned in the other thread).

TJ


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## mtoney

I will endevor to do that this weekend yet. The wheels have grub screws, allen key to loosen/tighten. The axles are just plain. There is a gauge that comes with the engine that you just squeeze the wheels together, back to back to set the gauge. Then tighten the grub screws. Mike


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Mike ... looking forward to the under-the-hood pics.

The steamer/train look great running 'round outside!

TJ


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## shaygetz

Nice smooth running little engine...couldn't get a Mamod to run that slow...:thumbsup:


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## mtoney

I think Mamod's new Brunel engine will run almost that slow, it isnt geared as steep as Willi is, but no, the Mamod SL1 will not run very slow without some serious mods and ad ons that make it as espensive as a Regner. The new price for a Mamod is halfway to a Willi. Current street price is $682 for a Willi/Konrad plus shipping. Pretty cheap for the quality(its quite heavy) and having a proper site glass. I did ad a very fine piece of red wire thru the middle of the glass, helps to break the water tension so the glass doesnt get air locked and helps with 1:1 scale eyeballs being able to see the water level. Having a blow down valve at the bottom of the glass would be much nicer but beggers cant be choosers! If Regner got some good magazine time in Garden Railways, I think the sales of Willi/Konrad would exceeded supplies. Mamods are rocket ships when they do run, Accucraft was nice, but needed RC control as it needed more throttle on upgrades and no throttle on down grades or thru tight curves. I know of many garden railways that forgo steam due to tight curves and grades. Both of which the Regner easy line engines handle with ease and no RC. Even flat out, I can walk much faster than Willi can run. And at pretty much flat out, Willi was in no danger of derailing on my LGB R1 curves, one of which is at the end of a down grade. The steep gearing just power brakes it, you can hear the steam engine run up against the gears, much like a manual transmission in a car. If anybody is seriously thinking they would like to have atleast 1 live steamer, do some youtube viewing of Regners following models: Willi, Konrad, Wilma, Vincent, Lumberjack, Chaloner and their vert boilered, wood body early Shay engine that once weathered with india ink and decorated with lots of Ozark Miniatures stuff, really looks back woodsy. Thier Lumberjack can be done up the same way. I believe the Regner shay will also do R2 curves where as Accucraft cannot when the driveline is on the inside of the curve. Check out The Train Department for all your Regner needs. I should be ordering my whistle kit, roof kit, boiler refeed valve from there shortly. All are factory Regner add ons to the basic Willi or any other engine from them. Do that with a Roundhouse or Accucraft, not easy or impossible. Cheers Mike


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## mtoney

Here is the pic of Willi's underside, showing the shouldered wheel sets and the final gear reduction gears. Mike


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Mike ... pretty simple under there. I was curious to see the gearing system. Pretty neat that the gauge can be adjusted.

Thanks for the pic / details!

TJ


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## BK R

Hi all, I'm not into steam trains, but live steam, yes.
Esbits stink, both in smell and price, I use "hexamine" it's a camping solid fuel tablet that can be cut to fit burners, it's about half the price and doesn't stink, it does have a smell.
Metho/alcohol burners have been banned for years as a safety issue, but you can still make and use them.
Gas is great, bit dear to set up but YOU have control of the heat that goes to the boiler.
If you want to wade through 2o odd pages, this is one of my builds.
http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about40520.html


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## tjcruiser

BK R said:


> this is one of my builds.


Holy Moly! That's incredible ...










TJ


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## BK R

Thanks TJ, it's still my favorite "toy" :laugh:


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## tjcruiser

Is it done? When I had a quick look at the build-thread, it looked like there were some final stages to come?

TJ


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## BK R

I did finish it, after adding 10" to the jib. I have a video some where if you are interested.


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## tjcruiser

That is really fabulous. Yes, please, on the vid ... would love to see that steam crane in action!

(You must have had a BIG Erector set when you were a kid!!!)

TJ


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## BK R

Here you are TJ

http://youtu.be/hs8Enh5awO8






I can normally embed them but it doesn't wanna work.


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## tjcruiser

OMG! That's incredible! You have hook up/down, boom in/out, and full crane pivot! Amazing, amazing fabrication / engineering work!

What can I say ...

:worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy:

TJ

PS -- I embedded the vid. On the Go Advanced tool, paste the stuff that's to the right of the equal sign in the YT URL between the YT special code tags.


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## shaygetz

BK R said:


> Hi all, I'm not into steam trains, but live steam, yes.
> ...If you want to wade through 2o odd pages, this is one of my builds.
> http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about40520.html


Aye, Bernie...thought I recognized the work---your crane is the only bit of steamy that drives me to desparate heights of _"Must have, MUST HAVE...."_:laugh::laugh:

Good to see you here...cheers.


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## BK R

Here's another build....a logging winch.

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopic52131-0-asc-0.php


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