# Where do I place my semaphore signal?



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Gang,
I have finally got around to hooking up a semaphore signal I bought at a train show. My question is where to put it. My thinking is that it will go on the mainline but that the connector it is hooked up to should go to the track before a turnout that leads to the mainline. Is that correct?

I posted a video of my question to make this easier, I hope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J0GgPDuNiE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## bigdogjeff1 (Sep 11, 2010)

seabilliau said:


> Gang,
> I have finally got around to hooking up a semaphore signal I bought at a train show. My question is where to put it. My thinking is that it will go on the mainline but that the connector it is hooked up to should go to the track before a turnout that leads to the mainline. Is that correct?
> 
> I posted a video of my question to make this easier, I hope.
> ...


that's a good question i have 1 on my mainline right in between the switch. so basically the way you have it but i don't know if i have this right so i cant wait for this answer


----------



## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

After reading up a bit on it, the Semaphore is a signal to the _approaching_ train, telling it what to do.

So, it seems the answer to the question is another question - what approaching train do you wish to convey a signal to?


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

That's a good question. I was reading a book to my son on trains tonight before bed and we came across semaphores. I learned that the yellow bar is the early distant warning which my semaphore has. This warning tells the engineer to proceed but that there may be a "stop" signal at the next signal. So, it appears I can put my semaphore next to the station. Now, to figure out how to make it a little more quiet.


----------



## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/sem/index.htm

http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/railhom.htm

Two good pages on the subject of what semaphores do.

Pookybear


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

seabilliau said:


> Now, to figure out how to make it a little more quiet.


How do you have it wired?

Describe the noise problem, I may have a suggestion.


----------



## bigdogjeff1 (Sep 11, 2010)

Dave Sams said:


> How do you have it wired?
> 
> Describe the noise problem, I may have a suggestion.


I have the 1 made by Mth and its not load at all and i have mine connected to inferred controller.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Dave Sams said:


> How do you have it wired?
> 
> Describe the noise problem, I may have a suggestion.


Dave,
I have it wired based on the schematic in the Lionel PDF. The semaphore I have is much older but I figure its the same today as it was yesterday. 

http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/72-2944-250.pdf

You can hear the noise in the YouTube video. It's pretty loud.


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Yep, it is loud in the video.

I have 2 PW oldies. One from my childhood, one from a train show.

I have a solution and will post it after dinner tonight.

Mine doesn't make any of the 60 cycle noise.


Paint that table before you get much further along, or you'll be sorry.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks and don't worry. It's white for a reason. 

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10219


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm just sayin.....


any how

Check this out




How about that!

It works well on the crossing gate, automatic gate man and anything with a coil.

The converter is nothing more than a Radio Shack 276-1152 bridge rectifier and a 1000mfd capacitor.

The unmarked leads of the rectifier go to the AC leads and the "-" and the unmarked lead opposite the "-" go to the signal. The cap goes between the + and the - leads of the rectifier.

I've had this setup for years. The only problem comes when you park the train on the actuator. You don't hear the buzz, but will smell the hot coil.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Dave Sams said:


> I'm just sayin.....
> 
> 
> any how
> ...



Sorry, I can't see the video. Can you just ppost the link? Sorry


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOApq9Iw3Lo&feature=channel


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Awesome! Thanks. I will try that out. I hope my RadioShack has it. The local one has turned more into a phone store than anything radio or shack.


----------



## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

seabilliau said:


> Awesome! Thanks. I will try that out. I hope my RadioShack has it. The local one has turned more into a phone store than anything radio or shack.


yea, I think radio shacks must be like that every where, my local one keeps a few components,but nothing like they usta be,for sure..........mike


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Usually, they have 4 of the items they stock. If you want one or two of something and aren't a frequent shopper, they are ok.

Last week, I "won" 50 resistors on E Bay for $.01 plus $2.99 shipping.


For the AC to DC converter, the parts I specified was installed on a semiphore. I left it connected until the coil overheated. The parts were cool.

For my layout, I bought the largest rectifier sold at RS and attached it to a heat sink with heat sink compound and a bolt. I also used a 3A transformer and 1000mfd cap. This setup powers 3 crossing gates, 2 semiphores and a gateman. Of course, they aren't all operating at onece, but all are quiet.
So quite, if a train is parked on the gateman actuator, the coil gets hot and I start searching for the "hot" smell.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Dave Sams said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOApq9Iw3Lo&feature=channel



Aren't the lights supposed to light too?

Hey Dave......why didn't you paint your table green?


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Dave, you should be able to use Bob Nelson's cap discharge to power the semaphores and eliminate the problem of the coils getting hot.


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I'll have to check him out. 

My layout and systems were built 20+ years ago. Long before the Internet. 

Old habits die hard.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Dave,
So I have the capacitor and rectifier. I think I understand your instructions but,

"I am just a caveman... Your world frightens and confuses me."

Could you show a picture or a schematic? This is a new adventure for me.


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

They usually don't let me have sharp things anymore, but here we go











The cap should have a "-" marked on one end, or arrows pointng to the negative end.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks. I should be able to figure it out from here. 


Famous last words...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Remember that you'll want a lower voltage AC feeding that bridge rectifier, the DC will react to the pure resistance of the coil, while the AC will react to the additional impedance of the coil at 60hz. If you stick similar DC voltage on the coil, you'll have a LOT more current flowing in it, that may start melting things. Those signals were designed for AC.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

That is why I suggested using Bob Nelson's cap discharge power supply.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> That is why I suggested using Bob Nelson's cap discharge power supply.


It would help if you supplied a link or a hint where he might find this.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, you know where it is. It's on the CTT forum.


----------



## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Here is a link: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/201218/2198834.aspx


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Geepers Mr Wilson

I put my meters on my transformer and gateman.

There was about 1/2 volt difference between AC and DC.

I'll admit, my education came from the University of Mybasement, but its been working for all these years ok.

Mind you, I don't have any of the newer locos or accessories with circuit boards.


Thanks for the links, I couldn't find Bob earlier today.


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

My vote goes to Rob Paisley.


The second diagram looks good.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

T-Man, are you talking about the second part of this graphic?










Or, are you talking about this one?


----------



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The " or this one" .  With a signal there is only one coil. There is a whole page to review but that one should do the trick.

Anton opted for the fancy diagram with the Darlington Transisitors in this thread.


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

I wonder how seabilliau is doing.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Dave Sams said:


> I wonder how seabilliau is doing.


Holy cow man, I was just asking what to put my semaphore next to. 


I'm going to try Dave's first. The other schematics are awfully pretty but above my pay grade right now. I'll also look at that cap thing too. I only have this one semaphore so I'm not worried about overloading it right now.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

seabilliau said:


> Holy cow man, I was just asking what to put my semaphore next to.


:laugh: Did you figure out where it is going?


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

I have determined that since its a yellow signal and not a red, it is a cautionary signal and suitable for being next to my station which is where I originally wanted it. 

Spending some time with the family this weekend so I'm going to finish it this week.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

seabilliau said:


> I have determined that since its a yellow signal and not a red, it is a cautionary signal and suitable for being next to my station which is where I originally wanted it.
> 
> Spending some time with the family this weekend so I'm going to finish it this week.



Then why did you ask?

Sounds like a good spot.


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

35 posts later!

Oh what fun we have :laugh::laugh:


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Argh!

Alright, you gotta have patience with me, I was a music major in college. I have the circuit made but am scratching my head on where to insert it in the larger circuit. Where do I place the leads from the rectifier going to the AC and where do I place the -+ lines coming from the cap? If someone could tell me using figure 2 in this PDF, that would be great. 

http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/72-2944-250.pdf


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

seabilliau said:


> Argh!
> 
> Alright, you gotta have patience with me, I was a music major in college. I have the circuit made but am scratching my head on where to insert it in the larger circuit. Where do I place the leads from the rectifier going to the AC and where do I place the -+ lines coming from the cap? If someone could tell me using figure 2 in this PDF, that would be great.
> 
> http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/72-2944-250.pdf


In the Lionel diagram, POWER SUPPLY is connected to the two leads I have labeled " TO AC". The AC is your transformer. The Red and Green wires are the "TO COIL" and "TO COIL" . One wire, either Red or Green will be positive (+) the other will be negative (-) Your choice as to which is red and which is green.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Success! Woohoo (makes sound like Target Lady from SNL).










I'll post pics tomorrow of it set up.


----------



## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank Dave Sams!



Now, I need to get an aux transformer as I'm officially pulling too much juice.

The semaphore is behing the station on the mainline and hard to see, sorry. Also, it needs some cleaning as the light is finicky.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's your solution. 24 volts center-tapped at 10 amps! You can run the center-tap to common and run up to 120 watts of accessories off each leg!  Click on the graphic to see where to guy it, they're $27.95/ea.


----------



## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Looking good, a little adjustment on the contact and you are all set.


----------

