# Software



## NW Nelson (Jan 14, 2015)

Do any of you have planning software recommendations? A choice between 3rd PanIt and CadRail?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

My personal preference is for Anyrail. At $60, it's a bargain. It has the shallowest learning curve, but can do anything you need it to. And there is a ton of user-created content.

Check it out at www.anyrail.com


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## NW Nelson (Jan 14, 2015)

I had not considered this product. Thanks, I will check it out because simple but effective is always a good choice.


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## FishTruck (Feb 18, 2015)

I am using SCARM. It is free and I have not really found it's limitation yet.


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

*Mac programs*

Is there any Mac programs out there ? All I see is Microsoft software.


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## nealt (Jan 22, 2015)

Yes. There is a program called RailModeller Pro 5.0.8
Create trackplans for model railroads and slot cars (was RailModeller). It costs 30 USD.


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

3rdPlanIt - no contest.

Downside? Learning curve.


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## nealt (Jan 22, 2015)

Unfortunately 3rdPlanit is a PC only program.


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

nealt said:


> Unfortunately 3rdPlanit is a PC only program.


I'm not a Mac user but I thought there were a number of different ways to run PC apps on a Mac.

Yes? No?


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## nealt (Jan 22, 2015)

Yes but that is an additional cost and may run slow. Railmodeler Pro for Mac costs 30USD.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

fcwilt said:


> 3rdPlanIt - no contest.
> 
> Downside? Learning curve.



Which, for many of us, makes it a real contest. I for one don't want to spend my time fighting with the software.


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> Which, for many of us, makes it a real contest. I for one don't want to spend my time fighting with the software.


Yet once you learn the software it is much easier to achieve the desired results then the other programs due to it's fundamentally different and thus more productive approach.

It took me a couple of false starts before I understood the approach.

The tutorials are a must for most folks.

YMMV.


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## SBRacing (Mar 11, 2015)

AnyRail 5, Yes you may have to pay for it but it is well worth it. Designed several layouts and there online video tutorial and it is a wonderfull piece of software.:thumbsup:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

FWIW, I am also a big Anyrail fan. Very shallow learning curve, a ton of pre-loaded track libraries, and very satisfactory results.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I use Anyrail 5, also. Just got it about 3 months ago. It's real easy to learn and yields great results in your chosen design scale.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

No love for XTrackCad? Free and opensource, also works on Mac.


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

Xtrackcad works on Mac?


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

That's what they say. I use it on linux, been working great for my planning.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I tried XTrackCAD, it's free, but the interface was too cryptic for me.


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

Anyrail is the biggest ripoff in model railroading. Your access is only good for this version. Once version 6 comes out you will be kicked back to 50 pieces automatically. No other software kicks you out completely. You may not get updates but you can still use all the features.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When version 6 comes out, just don't update, you have that option.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

bill937ca said:


> Anyrail is the biggest ripoff in model railroading. Your access is only good for this version. Once version 6 comes out you will be kicked back to 50 pieces automatically. No other software kicks you out completely. You may not get updates but you can still use all the features.


You contradict yourself. Licenses in Anyrail are good for unlimited updates and generally 2-3 versions. Irregardless, if you decline to purchase a new license, your old version continues to work, without updates, indefinitely. You say "no other software kicks you out completely", but neither does Anyrail, unless you somehow delete or corrupt the old version. My old version stayed on my PC, fully functional, in a separate directory, until I uninstalled it.

This is pretty much a standard business model in the software industry. Microsoft and Apple both use it, most other major game and software companies do too. They're a small company and need to keep the money coming in to keep paying their programmers to keep improvi g the software, and I, for one, don't mind upgrading my license every couple of years.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

bill937ca
Are you talking about the Anyrail 5 trial version? I purchased Anyrail and they said I will also get the version 6 when its developed/released.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Anyrail 6.x hasn't even come out yet, so I'm at a loss how you could be complaining about what it's doing to an earlier version! I just checked their website, no mention of a version 6. Aren't we a bit paranoid in advance?


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

Anyrail may have changed their business model. This is from their FAQ:

"License

Q: Does my AnyRail 2 or 3 license key work for AnyRail version 5?
A: No, but you can get an upgrade at a reduced price. Please go here. Customers having a license for version 4 can upgrade for free."

That's the first I have heard that you could upgrade for free from version 4. In any event this confirms that in the past the license key wasn't good for the new version.


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## jimmyperry_00 (Jan 23, 2015)

All that proves is that v2 or v3 can't be upgraded to v5. My v5 version is upgradable to v6. They aren't going to let you jump 3 or 4 versions. Just like Microsoft won't let you upgrade windows 95 to windows 8.


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

jimmyperry_00 said:


> All that proves is that v2 or v3 can't be upgraded to v5. My v5 version is upgradable to v6. They aren't going to let you jump 3 or 4 versions. Just like Microsoft won't let you upgrade windows 95 to windows 8.


But you can keep using all the features of windows 95. When I bought version 4 David said I would have to pay for Version 5.


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## jimmyperry_00 (Jan 23, 2015)

But you can keep using 4.


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

jimmyperry_00 said:


> But you can keep using 4.


That wasn't my experience.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know what happened to you with Anyrail, but I can't imagine the product stops working when a new version comes out.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

bill937ca said:


> That wasn't my experience.


I could. You have to turn off auto-updates.

FWIW, there are some technical reasons (in addition to the obvious business ones), why companies make you pay for an upgrade from time to time -- so they can throw out parts of the architecture that have become too limiting. Versions are backwards compatible, so you can upgrade any layouts designed with older versions to the new version.

Perhaps, though, this part of the thread would have been better started with a "Why can't I...?" question instead of a rant (although I'm sure that was born out of frustration and posted in the heat of the moment.

Now, I must say that after years of working with IT projects, I am very suspicious of any software products developed and offered for free, unless I can clearly understand the business model (such as heavy advertising content). There is some part of me looking for piracy (theft of intellectual property) or viruses / spyware /adware. That said, there is a free program out there called SCARM (Simple Computer-Assisted Railway Modeler) developed by a guy in Eastern Europe (Hungary, maybe) who goes by the screen name of Mixy. Supposedly, he does this out of the simple pleasure of doing it. It is very similar to Anyrail (bordering on piracy, if you ask me). You won't have to be bothered with licenses there (although when he decides to quit supoorting it, you will have no recourse). Use at your own risk.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, I was curious so I went back into my email archive to see what I originally purchased. I purchased AnyRail 4 in April of 2011, and when Anyrail 5 came out, I seamlessly moved to it with no additional charges, and I've been running the full version ever since.

I don't know why you talked to or corresponded with at Anyrail, but David Hoogvorst from Anyrail is who I normally correspond with. They also added a bunch of stuff to the libraries on my suggestion. All my correspondence with them has been courteous and prompt, and they have bent over backwards to solve track library issues promptly.

I think it's pretty clear we're not getting the whole story here, this doesn't sound like the same company.


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

I had both versions 4 and 5 on my hard drive. After the new version appeared when I clicked on version 4, only version 5 would open.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, that's different than Anyrail stopping working, but that's not what your original statement said or implied. A free upgrade to a more capable version doesn't seem to be a ripoff to me, but maybe I'm just being dense.

I can see that installing a new version may have killed the old version. I'm somewhat at a loss why you'd want to use the old version anyway, I never missed it when 5 came along. Is there some reason you wanted to continue with version 4?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

bill937ca said:


> I had both versions 4 and 5 on my hard drive. After the new version appeared when I clicked on version 4, only version 5 would open.


Yes, because the software upgraded to the new version. Why do you still need version 4? Anything created with version 4 will be updated to the new version if you open it and then save it. If an object or library has disappeared, that's probably because it isn't available anymore.


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## Mixy (Dec 14, 2010)

CTValleyRR said:


> I could. You have to turn off auto-updates.
> Now, I must say that after years of working with IT projects, I am very suspicious of any software products developed and offered for free, unless I can clearly understand the business model (such as heavy advertising content). There is some part of me looking for piracy (theft of intellectual property) or viruses / spyware /adware. That said, there is a free program out there called SCARM (Simple Computer-Assisted Railway Modeler) developed by a guy in Eastern Europe (Hungary, maybe) who goes by the screen name of Mixy. Supposedly, he does this out of the simple pleasure of doing it. It is very similar to Anyrail (bordering on piracy, if you ask me). You won't have to be bothered with licenses there (although when he decides to quit supoorting it, you will have no recourse). Use at your own risk.


I usually avoid to interfere in disputes which track planning program is better or not because as an author of such software I cannot be objective, but here I must to do that.

I respect every opinion about SCARM and take all critics about it in a constructive way. But I have to firmly state that *SCARM is not а piracy product of AnyRail or any other software with similar features*.

SCARM is a product of my hard work from more than 5 years and has some features that are unique or are not fully covered in most of the other programs. These include the instant 3D viewer, the user-created 3D figures, the upcoming 2D/3D running trains simulator and more. These just does not exist in AnyRail. And there are several software packages for track planning which exists on the marked from more than 25 years, i.e. WinTrack, WinRail, etc. and they are much older than AnyRail. But nobody says that AnyRail is a piracy product of these packages. AnyRail is very good program and I respect what its author is doing, but please, do not charge me in piracy or stealing of intellectual property from him as this is just not true - both programs are intended for track planning, the way in which they work is similar, but there are a lot of differences in the approach in which they are doing that, in the licensing model, in the set of features, etc.

Milen Peev
aka Mixy from Bulgaria
Author of SCARM


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Whoa, there, friend. First of all, I did not accuse you or anyone else of piracy, or theft of intellectual property, but I do think many many products skirt the hairy edge of intellectual property theft. Remember that there is a fine line between being inspired by something and copying it. As has been decided in courts over and over again, the addition of features does not change the basic case. I'm glad you insist that you didn't copy anything (at least deliberately), but really, I would expect nothing less, especially if you had. A day does not go by when I don't hear someone deny doing something that they were responsible for. Intellectual property is too dicey a subject to get into here.

What you really should be asking yourself is, "if he thought I was a criminal, why would he tell someone about my software product?" I won't use it myself, but I will make people aware of it if it suits their needs.


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## HO-Railways (Aug 20, 2015)

To open this up more, has anyone used the software from Atlas? It was the first one I found and I've been using it for oh, 5 days now? The neat thing is I can print a list of their track parts I used to order them.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Hi, HO,

Atlas's track planning software is as much a marketing tool to sell Atlas track products as it is a layout design tool. While there is nothing wrong with Atlas track, especially if you step up to their Custom Line products from the Snap Track line, there are also a lot of other options out there.

Any decent layout planning software will allow you to access a library of track pieces from many different manufacturers (so unless Atlas has changed it's tool since I last used it, theirs doesn't meet this criteria), and to print a material (shopping) list when you're done. SCARM does, Anyrail does, 3DPlanit does, XTrakCAD does, and I'm sure others I haven't tried do so as well. What you are really looking for in layout design software is something that will easily and intuitively let you transfer the design from its source in your imagination to a piece of paper as a 2D or 3D drawing, as you choose, as well as enforcing dimensions so that you don't fudge your drawing and end up with a layout that can't actually be built.

So, if you're content to use Atlas track and your layout is fairly simple, without complicated inclines, curved turnouts, odd curves and easements, and so forth, there's nothing wrong with their product. If you want to be able to take advantage of all the various products available (especially curved turnouts), choose a 3rd party product.

Just one other note: you generally can't design a layout using Atlas track and then substitute Bachmann or Walthers, or Peco track (or any other brand), because every manufacturer's piece grometry is a little different. A 9" straight is pretty much a 9" straight, but curves and turnouts (especially) can be significantly different between manufacturers.


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## HO-Railways (Aug 20, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Just one other note: you generally can't design a layout using Atlas track and then substitute Bachmann or Walthers, or Peco track (or any other brand), because every manufacturer's piece grometry is a little different. A 9" straight is pretty much a 9" straight, but curves and turnouts (especially) can be significantly different between manufacturers.


Having said that, how do you guys deal with using different track brands pieces into one unit?

The whole reason I'm using Atlas is because it makes sure all the pieces are compatible. Yea, I may not get pieces I'd really like (such as a remote switched "Y" track piece). I'm fairly new at this, my dad had an HO set (hence the name) and designed everything, now I'm doing my own and still learning. I've been using only the Atlas series 100 track pieces, as part of it requires flex track (for a sorting yard) and I want everything the same code.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

That's much ado about nothing, really. If you are using track with integral roadbed, then yes, you pretty much have to stick with one brand (although there are ways you can jury rig a connection), otherwise most anything goes.

Personally, I use Walthers-Shinohara turnouts and Microengineering flex track, both in Code 83. Yes, the appearance is a little different (tie spacing and weathering), but nothing that's going to bother anyone. I use Atlas nickel silver joiners to hook parts together, and solder the joints into 6-8 foot long pieces.

You don't even need to use the same code throughout. In fact, it's fairly common to use one code for mainlines and a smaller code for sidings and spurs. It just requires some shimming to get the height right, and usually special joiners to link them. Mixing brands, so long as everything is standard gauge, isn't a big deal.

What I meant was that you can't design a layout using an Atlas turnout, then substitute a Peco model during construction, because they won't be the same size and shape. If you design it from the start using a Peco turnout amd Atlas track, no worries.

BTW, flextrack isn't meant for use only where you need long stretches of straight track. It works for that, sure, but it is also highly useful for using curves which don't conform to the rigid geometry of the sectional pieces, as well as for when you need an odd shape. It can be (usually is) cut to the desired length.


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## HO-Railways (Aug 20, 2015)

Ah I see what you're saying. I have an issue though with different track thickness. I like uniformity as this picture shows (flex track in greenish-blue, track is 2.63 inches apart for uniformity).









Most of my straight sections are 9" as most everything is based off this (so if I build an oval I can delete a straight and easily add a turnout). I will say this about Atlas, I'm still working on the elevation bit.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Rail thickness (height, really) is a function of the code. Same code rail, same height. The ties from different manufacturers may be slightly different thicknesses, but that's easily fixed with cardboard, styrene, or wooden shims. Once you ballast your track, it doesn't show.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What's the purpose of all the extra switching for the center track? Since the all converge on a single track, wouldn't one switch be as effective as three on each end? I'm all for uniformity, but only if it's functional. That just seems to be unneeded complexity for no gain.


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## HO-Railways (Aug 20, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What's the purpose of all the extra switching for the center track? Since the all converge on a single track, wouldn't one switch be as effective as three on each end? I'm all for uniformity, but only if it's functional. That just seems to be unneeded complexity for no gain.


In the atlas software, in order to get that many different tracks, I had to use the reverse "wye" like that because the two center would collide, so I had to bring them into one track. I've tried remote switching, but doesn't look as nice. I'm going to do more research, then I'll start a discussion on rail sort yards.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I guess I'm not sure why the "Y" is necessary at all. Surely, coming off one of the switches that enter the "Y" you could just go to the center track. If the "Y" can curve enough, a plain piece of track can too. Since all of the tracks are fed from one lead, it doesn't really add anything to have two entries to that single yard track IMO.


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## HO-Railways (Aug 20, 2015)

In my design, I have a single track that comes into the first "Y" that each branch from that gets an additional "Y" giving me 4 tracks as my incoming, then just reverse that back to a single track, hitting the first "Y" of the classification tracks.

















*ignore the colors, I used them to mark my road names (BN, UP, BNSF, CSX)*


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with John. It's an unnecessarily complicated track arrangement. It's only virtue is symmetry.

I mean, it's your layout, so you do what you want, but I would delete some of those Y's and simplify the design. The extra turnouts also add unnecessary expense.


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

As others have mentioned it's you layout and you can do whatever you want however if you have any interest in having classifications yards that resemble what you would likely find in the prototype there are many books on the subject of yard design.


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## thysell (Jun 8, 2013)

Is a 3 way wye a possibility?

https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/948-8808


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

A possibility for what, exactly? HO-Railways can use any available track piece.

What John and I are discussing is that real railroads have to build and maintain track, and always opt for the simplest workable track layout to keep costs down. There is no operational requirement (or improvement) for the arrangement HO is planning. It is being done solely to make an attractive, symmetrical pattern. 

That's fine, because at the end of the day, the layout has to make HIM happy, not John or me, but we want to make sure that if he's designing for operations, he is introducing needless complexity (and expense).


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It was only what I thought to be a worthwhile suggestion to simplify the yard while keeping the same functionality, I retract it in the name of symmetry.


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