# How does this look?



## Boston&Maine

No, there is no track on these plans yet, but heck, I am still a few years away from even being able to start construction on this... This is a 10' by 12' layout and it will be bi-level... The layout will be made up of eighteen 2' by 3' blocks so that if I ever move I will be able to disassemble it and load it into a moving van, or two, or three 

The three 2' by 2' blocks will be easily removable... There will be no track work on the two green blocks, and there will be a couple of bridges running over the river on the small white block... Also, there will be no lower level under these three blocks... That way when I remove them I will be able to walk into the center of the layout allowing me to reach everything (I have long arms )...

Having the 5' of space on either side of the removable section will allow me to have an O54 u-turn on the both legs of the layout... I will definitely be running O72 curves at least on the outer track of the layout (this will be one that crosses through the small white block), and this means my layout will be UP Big Boy compatible









The lower level of this layout will be nothing more than one mother of a freight yard... I want to be able to have several 15 to 20 car trains assembled under there, while my locomotives will probably be stationed on the upper level... When I want to pick up a freight consist I can just go down to the lower level and pull one up allowing me to easily mix and match locomotives with rolling stock... I will probably use a switcher or two to bring them up to the upper level...

So, from this little starting point, where may I run into trouble? Please do not crush my dreams :laugh:

EDIT: Oh yea, one more thing that I almost forgot to mention... I will probably be building some mountains in the upper right-hand corner of my layout...


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## T-Man

Lay some Track.


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> Lay some Track.


I am trying, I am trying... Reverse loops are not a fun thing to try and fit into a layout! 

I am going to scrap what I have now I think and start over tomorrow


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## T-Man

An old friend told me once that the folded dogbone was the most efficient way to fit a lot of track in a space. I have no idea if it is true.


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## stationmaster

Why a reverse loop? Use a bridge and go over or under the second track.


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## Boston&Maine

Well, this is what I came up with... Like I said, I will not even be starting this for a few years, but I was bored


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## stationmaster

Better start buyin switches now. You got a bunch of 'em. lol


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## T-Man

I will say MTH has a good price for 072 switches. Half the price of Lionel.


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> I will say MTH has a good price for 072 switches. Half the price of Lionel.


Really? I have no idea what I am going to use for track, I will pick that out in the future... I cleaned up a couple of corners and made it a 12' by 12' layout, which really helped make everything work 

The only thing would be the two curved trestles in the top left-hand corner... All of the trestles I see crossing rivers are straight :dunno:

Also, I think I will run the outer track through the mountain and make a tunnel


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## Boston&Maine

Probably the last major revision... I decided to ditch the whole lower level freight car storage idea... It is just not worth it with the 12' by 12' space... If I move into a house and have say a 12' by 24' area to build a layout then I would probably go for it


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## Chiefmcfuz

Whay gauge is tgis? These plans are awesome!


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## Boston&Maine

Thanks Chief! These plans are for O scale... I made one tiny revision; I added in an uncoupling track section in the freight yard


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## Chiefmcfuz

Dude! I would love something like this in HO


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## Boston&Maine

My layout software only does O scale, other wise I woulc turn it into HO scale for you...


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## T-Man

I have a new saying. "Let me prove my ignorance."

MMMM, O and HO, I would calculate the HO to be half size of the O.
I would guess 3/4 of the size. A large radius measurement doesn't change.
All you need is the same radius curves and switches in the scale you want to build. How about a list?

I guess I am just "Throwing myself on the tracks"


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> *I have a new saying. "Let me prove my ignorance."*
> 
> MMMM, O and HO, I would calculate the HO to be half size of the O.
> I would guess 3/4 of the size. A large radius measurement doesn't change.
> All you need is the same radius curves and switches in the scale you want to build. How about a list?
> 
> I guess I am just "Throwing myself on the tracks"


I thought about saying something like thas but I was not positive either... Here is a plain image with what each piece is, and then there is the item list...








(19) MTH 40-1012 5.5 inch half straight
( 1) MTH 40-1006 90° cross
(11) MTH 40-1054 O54 curve
(22) MTH 40-1042 O42 curve
( 4) MTH 40-1057 O54 half curve
( 4) MTH 40-1055 O54 lefthand turnout
(18) MTH 40-1010 O72 curve
(13) MTH 40-1017 4.25 in straight
( 7) MTH 40-1016 5.0 in straight
( 3) MTH 40-1056 O54 righthand turnout
( 6) MTH 40-1043 O42 righthand switch
( 1) MTH 40-1007 45° cross
( 2) MTH 40-1020 O72 righthand switch
( 4) MTH 40-1045 O42 half curve
(10) MTH 40-1018 3.5 in straight
(30) MTH 40-1001 10 inch straight
( 6) MTH 40-1019 30 in straight
(11) MTH 40-1024 bumper
( 4) MTH 40-1044 O42 lefthand switch
( 1) MTH 40-1008 uncoupling track
Grand total of 177 pieces


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## T-Man

The only other thing of thought is a 72' curve in O in probably comparable to 32" curve in HO. It may make the straight pieces half the length too.

Let me check the stock. On second thought HO curves would be flex track. A lot of differet curves are listed. I would start in the center and work out. half the radius and distance should work.
This is good to plan out a layout. I normally just lay it out to connect tarting wih just an idea, then again I have standard curves and I don't get fancy.


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## stationmaster

If one were to build this in HO, I'd use flex track.


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> On second thought HO curves would be flex track. A lot of differet curves are listed.


That is thanks to my 054-042-054-042 trick... I can not remember where I read that originally... If and when I build it I will try flex track for those corners, but if I do not like working with it I can at least revert to the standard pieces...


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## stationmaster

Boston&Maine said:


> That is thanks to my 054-042-054-042 trick... I can not remember where I read that originally... If and when I build it I will try flex track for those corners, but if I do not like working with it I can at least revert to the standard pieces...


I will let you in on my secret as to why I use flex track. Fewer connections. Fewer rail splices. Fewer connections/splices means less chance of a "dead spot" or broken connection. 

Another thing. Have you ever stood on a rail and loked down the tracks? They are not straight. Another bit of added realism when using flex track.

One other suggestion. Use Shinohara or Walthers(made by Shinohara, only cheaper) are a higher quality switch and reduce derailing at the switch. I used to use Atlas and had all kinds of problems. No more now wince changing them out.

Just my $.02.


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## Boston&Maine

stationmaster said:


> Another thing. Have you ever stood on a rail and loked down the tracks? They are not straight. Another bit of added realism when using flex track.


OCD does not work like that... My track will be perfectly straight 



stationmaster said:


> One other suggestion. Use Shinohara or Walthers(made by Shinohara, only cheaper) are a higher quality switch and reduce derailing at the switch. I used to use Atlas and had all kinds of problems. No more now wince changing them out.


I assume this is directed at Chief :dunno:


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## Chiefmcfuz

This layout is very inspirational in any scale, can't wait to see plenty of pics!


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## Boston&Maine

Chiefmcfuz said:


> This layout is very inspirational in any scale, can't wait to see plenty of pics!


Well then I hope you are still around here in a few years... I have no place to build this, so it will have to wait until I get my own place


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## glgraphix

Here, I found this in the back of a Model RR mag. 
I have already been working on my layout prelim. for my HO layout. You can put in your table size, what scale, track brand, etc. I cant say how much it has helped so far.

http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html

Kevin


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## stationmaster

Boston&Maine said:


> OCD does not work like that... My track will be perfectly straight
> 
> I assume this is directed at Chief :dunno:


Yes and yes.


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## Boston&Maine

I _switched_ up the freight yard a little :laugh:

Also, does anyone have any idea where the roads should go :dunno:


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## stationmaster

Who needs roads, you've got rails......


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## Chiefmcfuz

stationmaster said:


> Who needs roads, you've got rails......


I agree!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Boston&Maine

So my 12' by 12' layout was nice, but if I have the opportunity to I am definitely going to build a 12' by 24' layout... This is what I have so far... All of the curves are O72 (except for the freight yard sidings), so I can run the Big Boy on either of the two main tracks and can also reverse it... I am just trying to figure out what track layout should go in the middle...


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## Southern

Glade to see that you have a reverse loop. It alway amazes people when they realize that one of the trains have some how turned around.


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## T-Man

*Nothing*

Nutin in the middle . Leave it open to walk through.Your room size now.Everthing would be in reach.

StationMaster, do you have a table or a walkaround?


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## stationmaster

Both. My layout has a "bridge' so that you can get to the middle and make up consists from there, under the table. Operator can operate the trains from the inside or the outside. There are 12 "receptacles" around the inside and the outside. I could actually run 24 trains at the same time if I had the power. Which I don't. I would need at least two more transformers.

I also have a few modules, which I have used to fill in the middle that have "pop-ups in case of derailment. I don't like using them but have on occasion and want a change of scenery.

About half of my layout used to belong to a club. I bought it real cheap. The hardest part was making modules out of the parts of the layout that weren't modular.


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## stationmaster

More track......


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> Nutin in the middle.


But that is boring :laugh:

The loop I just added in will be elevated... Getting the bridge up high enough over the other track will be difficult with a 3% grade... I will probably have to either contour the land a certain way or push the grade towards 4%... The elevated plateau will continue over the top left corner of the two main lines and they will go through tunnels there... I will have to add in some sidings somewhere... Does anyone see any operating problems with this layout?

Also, StationMaster, how to the track connections work on a modular layout were two sections meet? I figured that I would do something like that so I can seperate the table somehow...


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## stationmaster

Where you table, sections will break, hold the track back 1 1/2" on each side. Use a 3" piece of track to connect the two tables.

I use 2x4's where the tables meet. I then have bolts that tighten the joint. It might be a bit of over kill but it works for me. It also helps to add to the stability of the tables. I use a 4" bolt with washers on both ends. Just make sure to space them evenly.


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## T-Man

Boston&Maine said:


> But that is boring :laugh:


OK, by nothing I meant you. Split the table against the walls and use the center to move around. The layout is large enough.


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## Don Chovanec

Looks great the only thing I see that may, I repeat may, cause you a problem is where the 2 bridges form a little v at the bottem of the layout. It looks a little close and depending on what your running may cause a snag or overhang onto an opposite bound train. It just looks a little sharp right there. Of course when you lay the track you should test it on your longest trains. I like the whole plan though! good work!


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## Southern

looks better very time.


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## Boston&Maine

One more question... How does flex track connect to regular track? Like regular track has the clips, but since you cut flex track to length it would not... Does it have to have its own lock-on?


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## stationmaster

No, I use the same connectors as I do for rigid.


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## Boston&Maine

The layout just went through a major overhaul... I would like to get the long straight reversing section up onto a bridge, but I do not know if that would be possible... The passenger station siding is long enough to fit a mid-sized steamer plus a five 70' car passenger set...


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## tworail

I like that design. Do it 

More operationally appealing than the others, which you will want when you get bored of the train going around in a circle


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> More operationally appealing than the others, which you will want when you get bored of the *train going around in a circle *


That is what I am trying to avoid, LOL... It still feels like it is missing something, but I can not put my finger on it... I think I will search the web for other O scale layouts and see what they look like...


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## stationmaster

Boston&Maine said:


> That is what I am trying to avoid, LOL... It still feels like it is missing something, but I can not put my finger on it... I think I will search the web for other O scale layouts and see what they look like...


A turntable in the right hand loop, that'll finish it off. Finish off your pocketbook too.


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## T-Man

With a feed from both ends you double your yard. Like intertwined fingers. But you have plenty of space.


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## tworail

Boston&Maine said:


> That is what I am trying to avoid, LOL... It still feels like it is missing something, but I can not put my finger on it... I think I will search the web for other O scale layouts and see what they look like...


You might think it's missing something, I'm not so sure.. This would keep a couple people busy during an operating session, or your hands full yourself.

A turntable would be pretty cool, if you have space for it.

Let us know what else you find.. Only thing it's missing is multiple levels


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## Chiefmcfuz

Boston&Maine said:


> The layout just went through a major overhaul... I would like to get the long straight reversing section up onto a bridge, but I do not know if that would be possible... The passenger station siding is long enough to fit a mid-sized steamer plus a five 70' car passenger set...


What's the hardware list on this bad boy? Looks like alot of track!


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## Boston&Maine

Chiefmcfuz said:


> What's the hardware list on this bad boy? Looks like alot of track!


You probably do not want to see it because last I checked it was up around $3,500 based off MSRP, but nonetheless I will get the list up later tonight...


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## Chiefmcfuz

Wow! 

Just to see what track is going into the construction would be great! This setup is awesome. You guys are very talented.


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## tworail

Boston&Maine said:


> You probably do not want to see it because last I checked it was up around $3,500 based off MSRP, but nonetheless I will get the list up later tonight...


Ouch. Ebay to the rescue, bulk lots


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## stationmaster

tworail said:


> Ouch. Ebay to the rescue, bulk lots


Not really that bad. Still bulk lots on Ebay, makes things a tad easier to swallow.


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## Boston&Maine

(14) MTH 40-1020 O72 righthand switch
( 5) MTH 40-1043 O42 righthand switch
( 5) MTH 40-1044 O42 lefthand switch
(14) MTH 40-1021 O72 lefthand switch
(55) MTH 40-1010 O72 curve
(38) MTH 40-1018 3.5 in straight
(37) MTH 40-1019 30 in straight
(25) MTH 40-1017 4.25 in straight
(48) MTH 40-1001 10 inch straight
(17) MTH 40-1016 5.0 in straight
(33) MTH 40-1012 5.5 inch half straight
( 4) MTH 40-1024 bumper
(15) MTH 40-1045 O42 half curve
( 2) MTH 40-1007 45° cross
( 2) MTH 40-1008 uncoupling track
Total of 314 pieces of M.T.H. Electric Trains RealTrax O-gauge track

( 4) MTH 30-9006 passenger station platform
( 1) MTH 30-9014 passenger station
( 1) MTH 30-9011 switch tower
Total of 6 pieces of M.T.H. Electric Trains accessories

Grand total of 320 pieces
Total cost: $3807.45 

Plus when you factor in the cost of the three engine sheds that is over $4,000...


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## stationmaster

Pray for a HUGE tax return and get'er done.


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## Don Chovanec

A huge tax return or a few years worth of purchases. When I total my expenses on my last layout I had spent over 5,000.00. over about 10 years. Still, best not to think about it just buy what you can afford build it, then buy some more. My effort was small to some so I imagine some cost many times that. I you let that intimidate you it will never happen. Start with a managable budget add as you can. Scratch build when you can't. I saw a friends layout that was modeled in HO Narrow Gauge and the track was all hand layed he even made switches. The patience that must have took. He and his brother and dad built it and ran a few select brasses on it but it was nice to look at.


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## stationmaster

Patience is the first commodity one must get, I agree, Don. The next is a bigger pocketbook. This hobby will test the boundries of both.

I have been to many design seminars. One thing that the speaker ALWAYS emphasizes is the "open" design as a starting point. It may be a simple loop, but the design has dead end switches for expansion.

When I read MRR, and they have "beginner layouts", I always note that they use the same philosophy. Good idea for the newb that has aspirations of a larger layout. AND yet another excellent reason to build modular.


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## Boston&Maine

That is a very good point about starting with one part of the layout and keeping it open to expansion...


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## stationmaster

ADD HERE: Never try to total you money spent on a layout. It will ALWAYS exceed your estimates. It may also intimidate you to the point that you may give it up as too expensive. 

Remember, there's the cost of your hobby and the cost of having fun and enjoyment. That is priceless.


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## Boston&Maine

stationmaster said:


> ADD HERE: Never try to total you money spent on a layout. It will ALWAYS exceed your estimates. It may also intimidate you to the point that you may give it up as too expensive.


I disagree, but maybe that is just the accountant coming out in me :laugh:


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## stationmaster

Well, B&M, not all of us are penny counters. For the average "Joe the Model Train Engineer", we keep buying engines, rolling stock, DCC systems, more decoders for the new engines, more track, magazines and reference books....The list is unending. I just left the work bench for the train room. I have (6) large boxes(36"lx24"wx24"d) of cars and engines that I am not using at the moment. Why? I have no idea. 

Some were Dad's Blue Box Athearns, I'm sure. I would hate to part with them. Others are unassembled kits. I'm sure that others were part of a "special buy" that I will probably never use. Even other items may be collectibles. 

I probably need to sort them and get rid of a few. The better half has been after me to do just that. If I do, I'll probably just buy more stuff with the procedes.

Maybe I'm playing a game where the one who dies with the most trains, wins. I've got a leg up on most if I am. lol


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## T-Man

Years ago I read an article on what a person spends on a hobby per year. It was 150 dollars and I just wonder what it is now. Today at a train show I refrain on the open pocket book. I try to get items I need, mostly parts.


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> Years ago I read an article on what a person spends on a hobby per year. It was 150 dollars and I just wonder what it is now. Today at a train show I refrain on the open pocket book. I try to get items I need, mostly parts.


It is probably more like $150 a month today, LOL...


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## stationmaster

Start up is expensive. Depending on your plan I could see spending $10k or more. If one were to start with DCC, compatible engines of good quality, structures, and buy rather than make use of "natural" materials, one could EASILY spend that much. 

Engines, DCC ready, start in the neighborhood of $200 or more. Thankfully, rolling stock, in kits form, is not too bad. Decoders have come down in price in the past five years. A good thing. Rail, with the price of metal has increased. I'm lucky to have purchased (50)boxes of Atlas Flex Track, in both Code 100 and Code 83, when a hobby shop closed its doors some years back for $8 a box. Add in the kits, cars, switches, and engines, I spent my whole year's allowance as I picked up some high quality, and for the time, high dollar stock for a fraction of normal retail.

Not a hobby for the faint of heart. I guess that is why one should look to the future when designing that first layout. A plan that is open to expansion is the best plan. And, I believe using a modular plan is best also. One can just change modules and change the layout drastically.

And if you are an obsessive-compulsive, you may end up n the poor house.


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## train4myboys

Boston&Maine said:


> It is probably more like $150 a month today, LOL...



Per hobby, right? I don't know if I could survive on such a small hobby budget! My income is flexible, being self employed, so I made a deal with my wife. We know what we spend every month on living expenses (ie all fixed expenses plus typical household spending). I get 10% of whatever I earn above that. Some months I get nothing, some I get a bunch. On average it amounts to between about 2% and 5% of our monthly income. But business is good this year


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## Boston&Maine

stationmaster said:


> Start up is expensive. Depending on your plan I could see spending $10k or more.


Even $10,000 is not that much when you consider a UP Big Boy costs $1,400, which was more than I paid for my car, LOL...



stationmaster said:


> And if you are an obsessive-compulsive, you may end up n the poor house.


Who needs a house; as long as I have my trains I will be content :laugh:


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## Boston&Maine

Boston&Maine said:


>


So, these were my two old designs... I decided to modify the first one a little and I think it is much improved... These layouts look so small on paper... Hmm, I wonder what that long shed is designed to cover


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## Big Ed

That would look great!

I would think a 100'x50' table should do it.:laugh:


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## T-Man

I like it. If I used it, I would turn it into a u design and add turnarounds where I needed them. I have trouble reaching into my 8 foot table. One vacation I may add switches and go crazy with track for a temp project. I'll need to get more track deals. 
I hope you graduate soon so you can build it?


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## Reckers

T-Man, is that 8' really so hard to deal with? I'm asking because I was thinking of building something larger, this summer.


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> I hope you graduate soon so you can build it?


I guestimate that it will be at least five or so years before I can even think about building this, if it can even become a reality... I would have to figure out some way to deal with its size... I have though about a U or L layout, but they have never really appealed to me... I will start to tinker with the design to see how much I can scale it down... Of course, this will mean getting rid of some of my O-72 curve access ... The best I will probably be able to do it get it down to 20' x 10'... The ultimate goal would to have like a 2' wide path going down the center of the layout... This would make everything accessible...


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## Big Ed

Boston&Maine said:


> I guestimate that it will be at least five or so years before I can even think about building this, if it can even become a reality... I would have to figure out some way to deal with its size... I have though about a U or L layout, but they have never really appealed to me... I will start to tinker with the design to see how much I can scale it down... Of course, this will mean getting rid of some of my O-72 curve access ... The best I will probably be able to do it get it down to 20' x 10'... The ultimate goal would to have like a 2' wide path going down the center of the layout... This would make everything accessible...



Don't get rid of the O/72 curves. You would be able to run all the big stuff with then.

What's the size of the space you have?

I thought I had all O/72's and they turned out to be O/54. That's the biggest they make for the O/27 tube track. 

And I would have to mate o/72 to the o/54's with the O/72 being true O sized rail. 
And the o/54 being o/27 sized tube. 
You got the height difference.

Back to the planning boards.:laugh:


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## Boston&Maine

big ed said:


> What's the size of the space you have?


None right now... The drawing is 24' by 12'... I figured this would be going in the basement of my future house, LOL... If I shrunk it, I would leave the outer line O-72...


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## T-Man

Reckers said:


> T-Man, is that 8' really so hard to deal with? I'm asking because I was thinking of building something larger, this summer.


The center can be difficult, but basketball is not my game.


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## Boston&Maine

Boston&Maine said:


>









I made a couple more tweaks and gave myself a longer run on the ramp... I figured that I would make it so the yard can be separated from the main layout, and then if I make an access hole in the elevated part I should be able to reach everything


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> The center can be difficult, but basketball is not my game.



I got long arms.

My layout where the round house and turntable is 8'x8'.

It is a little difficult reaching the very center of the table.
But I don't have to go there that much.

24'x12' you would definitely need an access panel.


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## Boston&Maine

I was staring at the layout today and the yard started to scream at me... The old design was too disfunctional... I would not be able to move anything without having to go onto the main line... This would mess me up if I ever wanted to have some trains chugging along while I do some switching... So, after thinking for a while I finally put something together... I just realized that I have another problem now though, which is that there is no run-around in the yard area... I must resist the urge to make the layout wider! :laugh:


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## Boston&Maine

So, I _switched_ up my layout software to make the yard much better


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## Reckers

T-Man said:


> The center can be difficult, but basketball is not my game.


I'm gonna invest in one of those clawed grabber-things. *L*:laugh:


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## Boston&Maine

Huh? Where did my layout go? 








Since I found the free Atlas design program, I decided to just start from scratch... The first modification was making the outer main line O81, which allows the lines to be closer together... Now, what to put in the middle? IDK, I still feel that even my last design was lacking compexity hwell:


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## Big Ed

do you mean o/81 track?


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## Boston&Maine

big ed said:


> do you mean o/81 track?


Yea, O81 curves on the outer line... The inner ones are still O72 curves, and before they were both O72 curves... I can not believe that they make up to an O99 curve!


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## tworail

Boston&Maine said:


> IDK, I still feel that even my last design was lacking compexity hwell:


Your last design looked awesome with tons of operating potential.

I would modify the yard though, just use one set of switches and have longer leads.


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> Your last design looked awesome with tons of operating potential.
> 
> I would modify the yard though, just use one set of switches and have longer leads.


So you do not think that it looked too "empty" for being such a large layout?


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## Reckers

glgraphix said:


> Here, I found this in the back of a Model RR mag.
> I have already been working on my layout prelim. for my HO layout. You can put in your table size, what scale, track brand, etc. I cant say how much it has helped so far.
> 
> http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html
> 
> Kevin


He's right---I'm playing with the demo right now, and it's a great tool. I plan to buy the full boat once I have some other expenses out of the way.


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## Coolbreeze

nice layout, gave me some ideas


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