# What are these wheels?



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Found these wheels while doing some clean-up in one of my parts drawers.As you can see they have oblong holes in them....


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A wild guess, they came off an S scale locomotive?
Hint the whitewalls. 

I wonder why the one has a piece of the whitewall missing?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Close but no cigar,









AMERICAN FLYER 310/312 K-5 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE - END DRIVE WHEEL PAIR


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

They are 2 rail with the white plastic insulators and the right diameter for S gauge. Looks to me like someone was opening up the holes in the wheels to make them look more prototypical. Wonder which engine these go with.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Big Ed said:


> A wild guess, they came off an S scale locomotive?
> Hint the whitewalls.
> 
> I wonder why the one has a piece of the whitewall missing?


I apologize my friend.. I sometimes forget not everyone is devoted to S scale alone,lol...They did indeed come off a AF engine, and that piece of white plastic that is missing is a broken insulator.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

flyernut said:


> I apologize my friend.. I sometimes forget not everyone is devoted to S scale alone,lol...They did indeed come off a AF engine, and that piece of white plastic that is missing is a broken insulator.


OH, that is plastic? Didn't know that.
But the wheels are cast, right?
I am still searching AF wheels.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyer said:


> They are 2 rail with the white plastic insulators and the right diameter for S gauge. Looks to me like someone was opening up the holes in the wheels to make them look more prototypical. Wonder which engine these go with.


It doesn't appear to have been drilled out.. My reason for my thinking is when Gilbert put together it's wheel sets, they were assembled and then to keep the wheel hub and white insulator tight, they were "staked". These weird wheels have the stake mark AFTER the wheels were assembled as the stake marks protrude somewhat into the oblong hole. They also have a part # I haven't seen before....PA 10010.......the mystery deepens...


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Big Ed said:


> OH, that is plastic? Didn't know that.
> But the wheels are cast, right?
> I am still searching AF wheels.


I've included a part # with a more recent post. And the metal bits are indeed cast.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I am guessing the holes were done with a drill and bit. The oblong holes are not uniform. LOL, some people should not have a drill.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Some of the 1946 steam engines had their wheels staked after the sets were shipped. Gilbert had to mobilize a team of technicians to repair wheels when retailers started complaining. It was apparently due to excessive shrinkage of some early runs of the plastic insulators. I do not recall ever seeing drive wheels with 4 openings in them. A mystery.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I forgot to add, they are also pul-mors with the rubber tire.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

mopac said:


> I am guessing the holes were done with a drill and bit. The oblong holes are not uniform. LOL, some people should not have a drill.


If you could hold them and see them in person, you would have to agree with me that no-one did this with a drill and bit. They are extremely uniform, there's no drill marks, etc., and the stake marks protrude into the hole, indicating to me that the rims were staked AFTER the holes were machined. Also, all the paint, coating is a uniformed black color. And I can't find that part # anywhere I look. The normal part # for a flyer center hub should read XA 10009.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That opens up a lot more possibilities. Still nothing comes immediately to mind.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I'll let you all think about it for the evening. I'm going upstairs to watch some telly, and turn in early.. I was at a car show for 5 hours this afternoon, and tomorrow I'm going to the last drags of the season, so I have to get up early.. Buddies are bringing 3 sheet pizzas, cakes, cookies, pop, I'm bringing wings, and another friend is bringing several different kinds of mac salad.. I have to exercise my belly so I can get everything in,lol!!!!!! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Have fun at the drags. Food sounds good also. Four holes is what does not seem right on those wheels. The odd part number is a puzzle.
NHRA is having some kind of big deal at our track this weekend.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Found your wheels. They are for a northern.

https://www.trainz.com/products/af-...for-4-8-4-northern-engine?variant=30394126790

They are factory done. Not sure why.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The description at Trainz says they are metal tires, not PullMor like Flyernuts. Could just mean that both the rear PullMor wheel and the 3 front non-PullMor wheels were made this way.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Could be right Tom. Maybe a very early production of a northern.
Those are the wheels flyernut has.

Sorry, I do not want them on my northerns. Someone might need them to match.
Maybe those holes are needed to balance the wheels.


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## Mike Keester (Sep 25, 2019)

mopac said:


> Found your wheels. They are for a northern.
> 
> https://www.trainz.com/products/af-...for-4-8-4-northern-engine?variant=30394126790
> 
> They are factory done. Not sure why.


"These are metal wheels, not Pullmor"


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Like Tom said, those might be the rear wheels. Maybe only rear wheels were pulmor. And not the front.
There are steamers like that.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

They are wheels for a Northern. As Tom stated, early wheels were staked due to the rims loosening on the insulators. The part # PA10010 is for the metal unpainted hub. The wheel assembly was XA10010A or XA10010B depending what wheel you are looking at. All Northern wheels have the four holes in them. It's possible someone replaced the steel rims with Pullmor ones at some point. Pullmor wheels came out long after the rim staking was done. If you go to this website and download the pdf parts list you can find the PA10010 on page 24. Hope this helps.  https://www.davestnt.com/shop


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Good work Cramden. I am traveling today and had no time nor access to research this riddle.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

AmFlyer said:


> Good work Cramden. I am traveling today and had no time nor access to research this riddle.


To be honest, after looking for the PA number, I wanted to be sure, so I looked at my 3 Northerns. I never noticed the differences in the wheels from the Hudsons or the K-5s and the Northerns.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The Northern wheels are different but amazingly I never noticed the 4 holes. When I get home I need to look at one.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Well, I'll be dipped... All 3 of my Northerns have those "holed" wheels, 332AC, K335, and 336... My 336 has the pul-mors, but they are on the back drivers, not the front, and they DO NOT have the holes. My K335 has the holes but no pul mor. On all 3 , the blind drivers have the holes.. As an after-thought, I have 2 NOS wheels with holes, and with the pulmors, somewhere around here.. These 2 shown are not them.. Thanks everyone for the great detective work!!!! Love ya all!!!!!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I guess we can learn something everyday. LOL, I am surprised my Guru did
not know the wheels. How was the drags. I have not been to the track in well
over 45 years. I used to run my 65 GTO and my 57 chevy. 2 cars I wish I still
had. The GTO was fast, not so much the 57 chevy. But it looked good.


When I last went to the drags AA fuel dragsters were running in the 8s. Last I 
heard they are in the 3s now. And maybe the 2s. Now that is fast.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

The drags were fine, but there was 1 incident.. There were canopy's set up all over the place, which was fine. All of a sudden a gust of wind picked up my canopy and flew it into a set of bleachers, hitting a couple on the head. This same gust also picked up another one and blew that into a different set of bleachers. Minor injuries but still a little scary.. And this is why canopies are not allowed at car shows.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the unfortunate canopy incident. Good that no one was seriously injured.
I was working today when it suddenly dawned on me I had taken a close up comparison picture of the 332AC wheels with the 302 wheels. Sure enough it is on my iPad so here it is. The four holes in the wheels are visible when I look for them. I cannot believe in all the years of collecting and operating American Flyer I never noticed these.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

I never noticed them either Tom, that's why I went and looked last night before posting. Hmm... I wonder what else I may have overlooked.


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