# DCC upgrade not soo smooth



## fredbon (Mar 4, 2016)

I completed the upgrade on my E5 loco with a TCS K0D8-E decoder. Now the unit stops after about 15 minutes of operation, the lights stay on, just not responding to the throttle. Wait about 3 min and it restarts.

I upgraded a Kato Unitrack Inner Double Loop track Set running the Zypher Silver Streak train, using the original Kato DC feeder wires.

I am thinking the feeder wire guage is way to small for DCC operation.

Thoughts.

Fred


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Was the motor tested for current draw before installing the decoder?It looks like the motor is drawing current pretty close to the decoder's limit.Many decoders now have overheating protection that turns them off if heat exceeds a certain level.

N scale motors generally draw .3/.4 amps (.5 A max).If the loco is old or heavily worn,it may need a new motor.

You can try running the loco without its shell to see if it makes a difference.


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## fredbon (Mar 4, 2016)

Thanks Brakeman Jake, the loco was purchased 11/2015, so I would not think it's age or condition would be poor. Initially I was having trouble with improperly insulating the decoder, running the loco without the shell and don't remember it stalling, I'll run it again without the shell.

If that fixes the stalling, should I try another decoder brand or go another route?

Thanks

Fred


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I've had a brand new Kato with a faulty motor that burned a decoder,so...even if extremely rare with Kato,it can happen with the very best brands.If removing does delay or even prevent stalling,it will definitely show a heating problem.

TCS decoders generally are fine so motor draw should still be checked.


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## HO LOVER (Nov 25, 2007)

Weird, i just installed a K2D4 Item #1294 on my SD90MAC Kato, and it did the same thing in the beginning, after a few tries, it finally stopped doing it and now runs fine. i just bought this KATO today and was wondering if perhaps it needed engine break in. But i thought it was weird that it would run for say 5 min, then stop and responded to NOTHING. I kept at it, until it stopped doing it and now runs with NO ISSUES. One thing i am trying to figure out is how to set the DITCH lights, i am using an NCE Power Supply but have no clue how to set the DITCH lights. The lights do work and i can turn them on and off, but thats about it. Anyone reading this, if you can be of any help, it will be greatly appreciated.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

HO LOVER said:


> The lights do work and i can turn them on and off, but thats about it. Anyone reading this, if you can be of any help, it will be greatly appreciated.


You need to check the capabilities of your decoder regarding what functions are available for ditch lights. You might only have on/off.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Fredbon, it does sound like an overheating issue as BJ says. Check the current draw with a multimeter, although the decoder should be capable. Maybe something else is going on with the motor.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

fredbon said:


> Initially I was having trouble with improperly insulating the decoder,


Always check the stall current of a motor before installing the decoder. 
If you shorted out the decoder you could have damaged it already! 
I would also do a reset on the decoder and make sure you have the decoder and motor insulated correctly. 
TCS decoder are usually very good and they have a excellent warranty, probably why they are more expensive.


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## HO LOVER (Nov 25, 2007)

Cycleops said:


> You need to check the capabilities of your decoder regarding what functions are available for ditch lights. You might only have on/off.


Ditch lights along with a few others are one of the capabilities.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

HO LOVER said:


> Ditch lights along with a few others are one of the capabilities.


Yes, but don't you need to install two lights or leds and hook up the ditch light wires. I believe they are the green and purple wires, not sure without looking it up. 
I don't own a SD90 but have two SD80s and the ditch light work with the head light, on and off only!


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## HO LOVER (Nov 25, 2007)

rrjim1 said:


> Yes, but don't you need to install two lights or leds and hook up the ditch light wires. I believe they are the green and purple wires, not sure without looking it up.
> I don't own a SD90 but have two SD80s and the ditch light work with the head light, on and off only!


I don't want to Hijack his thread, but the drop in decoder is just that.....Drop in. The lights from the decoder are LED. When I turn them on, I have the headlight, and the 2 side lights. With the decoder there were no wires to solder or work with. The decoder features include dimmed brightness, ditch lights, along with other functions. I am assuming it must be a function button or something I must run thru on my NCE. I could be wrong. Frustrating to say the least. Won't buy anymore Decoders. Any engine I see from now on MUST have DCC already installed or I won't even consider it. DCC and sound even better.


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## HO LOVER (Nov 25, 2007)

Just got this E-Mail back from TCS.

Hello Ivan,

First of all you have to add the separate bulbs or LEDs and wire them to the extra function pads on the decoder to make the ditch lights work separate from the headlights. In the stock loco there are plastic light tubes from the headlight bulb to the ditch light lenses. 

Needless to say, this was not worth it to me. 

Engine 84.99
Decoder 39.99
LED Lights perhaps 9.00 (Don't Know) Will not even bother. 

So you spend 134.00 plus say 30-40 min of your time to get this engine kind of like the way you want it, less sound of course. I would say that this upgrade is SO SO. I would NOT bother again.:smilie_daumenneg:

For 126.99 You can get a KATO GE ES44AC With TCS DCC Already installed, buy it and spend time running it, not installing DCC and then wiring things up. Just my 2 Cents. You live and learn. I want to run engines and not spend time installing, especially when they are brand new. From now on, if it does NOT have DCC already installed i won't even look at the engine.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Having DCC installed does not mean the ditch lights will be wired separately. These will be wired from separate pads on the decoder as TCS have stated. Wiring and activating these features is all part and parcel of the hobby. For me this is part of the fun, but if you cant be bothered that's down to you and that's fine.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Sometimes I wonder why I bother to post information in the first place.:dunno:


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## HO LOVER (Nov 25, 2007)

rrjim1 said:


> Sometimes I wonder why I bother to post information in the first place.:dunno:


LOLOLOLOLOLOL.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I wonder too sometimes,but then I tell myself that if one out of ten posts has been helpful to a single modeler,then it's been worthed it.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

You can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink!


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## HO LOVER (Nov 25, 2007)

:appl:


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## fredbon (Mar 4, 2016)

Well, I removed the shell and the loco ran for 20 min prior to stalling. I want to upgrade the bus wire gauge, if that doesn't cure the issue, I will trade out the decoder and install it in my other E5 loco.

Fred


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

If your bus wire doesn't get warm,then it's large enough.N scale needs very little current.You may have a defective decoder but your problem is more likely the motor draw or tight running gears.


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