# K-Line Caboose



## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Milwaukee Caboose 01605, with smoke and a rear end flasher. Model number K 617 1371 and there is another Milwaukee cab number 0231 model number K 616 1371

I wanted to show off this caboose. It is here for some repair. The front railing base broke so I did a little photo shoot.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)




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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

One problem is the heavy trucks. If they hit the stairs surely the truck will win. I found the stairs hanging by very little. I had to back up the inner side with a brace for more support.










The door was broken too. A fix with a paper clip and epoxy.










The roof was overheated. I was planning to add a modified fender washer but maybe another day.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Is it yours T?

I guess the door opens? Can you see the inside when it is lit up?
If so a little detail paint on the stuff inside would look good?

What do the little glass vial tubes do on the board, in the third picture?

Good old epoxy to the rescue. :thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The glass vial tubes are lights Ed. Those are the "signature" K-Line light bulbs they used in a lot of products.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Looks like Ed's right ... that is a little coil spring with tail that lets the door open/close. Neat.

Quite a bit of detail on that K-Line, T ... impressive. Nice save on this one!

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

T-man as always, great job on that! I look forward to your fix it threads. They can only help me in the future with my stuff. I like the way you brace up things; I could have never though of half of the stuff you come up with. Looking good.


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

The K-Line cabooses were somewhat famous for meltdowns from the smoke unit if run on a command layout at 18V for too long. They later put a switch in to limit the current flowing to the unit when running in a command environment.

I have one of their Conrail bay window cabooses and though it smokes great, I never use the smoke unit because it is pulled by my Legacy SD80's. The window right next to the smoke unit is frosted now because of the heat from the couple times I tried it. They are great looking cars though.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks for the comments! :thumbsup:
As far as the heat goes you just have to winf=der if you can place a heat sensor in there too!

This unit had some heat issues but no major damage. The resistor was reading about 24 ohms. Low in comparison to a Lionel 6o ohm I saw in their parts.

Here are some more pics.














































THe other windows had too much glare,, that's it ED.

If it was mine the inside paint detail is a good idea.

Those plastic handrails ( front and rear)are just too delicate. They have some bend but tend to break. I would change them to some good steel wire.

This is equipped with 2 switches. SMoke on/off and the TMCC/ Conventional switch.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Just put a diode in series with the smoke unit for command operation, you can put it on a switch. Works great and cuts the power in half to minimize melting.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

How many rated amps does the diode have to be? It sounds interesting but if you cut the power it will reduce the smoke too. At least the smoke won't be from plastic.

AN added treat video, full power with a CW 80

The precise model number is 6-17640, CP Rail. Not really This number is for a 2002 with black lettering and cab number 434604. Still searching.

A 2006 set has the white lettered caboose. Set 6-30026, and 73-0026-250 for a manual. The parts do not show the caboose UGH!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Just a 1A diode would be plenty, since you have a 24 ohm resistor and you're only rectifying half the cycles. I'd say the actual effective current on a 18 volt command track would be less than 400ma through the resistor and diode.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

T-man, please stop posting videos of cool stuff I don't yet own, my wallet can't handle it!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

OK the vials are lights, I see. Thanks John.

Too bad you couldn't hide all the wires inside somehow, so when you look inside you don't see them.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> T-man, please stop posting videos of cool stuff I don't yet own, my wallet can't handle it!



That is a different caboose? Wheres the other one? 

Did you hear at the end? It sounds like the T man blew the lights out.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Ed still have it . The CP rail was returned. I was trying to figure out if it had a stack. It does. Does your Beth Steel Caboose have smoke???


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Ed still have it . The CP rail was returned. I was trying to figure out if it had a stack. It does. Does your Beth Steel Caboose have smoke???


I don't think I have a Bethlehem steel caboose? 

Just the work caboose, if it does he didn't tell me when I bought it.
I will have to look closer at it. You mean the work caboose?

Do I have a regular Bethlehem steel caboose?
Soon I will have all my O stuff out in the open out of the big boxes up on shelves.
I am finding stuff I forgot I have.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I f you don't haave one, they make them. I saw the parts listing for it. Run caboose in a Lionel parts search and all of them show up. About 475 in all. I improved on using the Lioel search engine.

Up until now I have not been a big smoke fan.

These are neat. :thumbsup:


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Wonderful detail in that caboose. T-man, thanks again for a great how-to thread. The MTF picture fixits give klutzes like me the courage to keep at it until we get the results we hope for...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I will take a closer look this weekend, I think I only have the work caboose, I don't think I have a regular Caboose done in that.

T in your spare time figure out a way to install an American Flyer chugger in a Lionel locomotive. :thumbsup:

Feel free to use lots of epoxy.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I checked the caboose for the final time. The Tmcc switch has a working diode attached. It was out of sight under a bunk. I could barely see it never mind take a picture of it. SO that is the difference of the switch. RUn it in Tmcc mode all the time if it smokes well enough. Good call John.

Ed I have no desire to. You will just have to add a flyer layout if it is not three rail.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've seen a number of the older K-Line smoking cabooses that had deformed sides near the smoke unit, so I'm keenly aware of the issue. I have a couple of them, both of mine have the switch. I'm still reluctant to run them for any length of time smoking, the side still gets pretty warm...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Ed I have no desire to. You will just have to add a flyer layout if it is not three rail.


I just might do that when the kids move out. 
There is a big room upstairs, the smaller room I will give to the old (young) lady. Nice guy I am. 



gunrunnerjohn said:


> I've seen a number of the older K-Line smoking cabooses that had deformed sides near the smoke unit, so I'm keenly aware of the issue. I have a couple of them, both of mine have the switch. I'm still reluctant to run them for any length of time smoking, the side still gets pretty warm...


Couldn't you add some kind of insulation inside around the smoke unit to take the heat?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There really isn't any room to add insulation beside the smoke unit and the plastic shell. At least, not enough room to make much difference. Perhaps the ceramic tiles they made the space shuttle from...


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

2 one inch squares of very thin aluminum would probably do it.

One with a hole in it to go between the roof and the unit, and, one between the unit and the outside wall.

It would work best if you could keep the aluminum off the plastic, to creat an air gap. 10 to 15 thou would be plenty.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

BWA, a heat shield as you propose would make a big difference in the heat transferred to the plastic. However, the heat still has to go somewhere. The smoke generator is going to run hotter with a heat shield around it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The smoking caboose is only really effective sitting still, when it's moving the small quantity of smoke they put out disappears. It's not worth it to me to put that much effort into it.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Smoke unit wouldn't run any hotter at all. 

The idea is to keep the direct heat off the plastic. The radiated heat would just get soaked up in the caboose interior. 

The brakeman's feet would be a bit warmer is all, but, the sides and roof wouldn't melt.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I don't own one of these so I do not know the heat output.I do have to agree with servoguy to an extent. The radient heat (bouncing off the aluminum) will keep increasing as long as heat is produced. It might get hot enough to melt the wires etc.. the best protection against radiant heat in this situation would be to cool off the area with a draft of sorts. By just enclosing the top and sides with aluminum and leaving the front and back open would you get air flow to allow venting of the heat? If so it will work. If not it mightl melt. In theory anyway. Another option might be to use something that does reflect heat as well but absorbs it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Insulate it somehow and add a fan blowing on it.
They sell small fans.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

It is a general rule that a heat source that is surrounded by heat shields will run hotter than the same heat source without heat shields. This is basic physics.

Actually, if a small fan can be added to circulate the air in the caboose, it may be that the plastic will not overheat. It still might be a good idea to add the heat shields.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

This seems to be a lot of work...


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Grj , not any work for me I don't own one!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> This seems to be a lot of work...



Look at all the work the T man does.
It is the satisfaction you get from the end results.

Was it worth all the work he did on this?
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=12936

Compared to tackling the heat problem on the caboose this seems like much more work. Me I would have just looked for a replacement shell.

T man is this sitting around waiting for spring time?
For all who didn't see T's thread, this picture is of the good side! 
Check out the thread for the other side.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We're still waiting for T-Man to complete that one, I'm dying to see the final version.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Servoguy, I never said anything about surounding the heater with anything.

Just one reflective shield on the top and one on the side. You only need to keep the radiant energy off the surface of the plastic. There is enough air volume to in the body to easily absorbe that reflected heat.

I guarantee it will work. I have done this many times in other unrelated but similar circumstances.

It takes remarkably little shielding and very little airgap to greatly reduce the surface temperature of the surounding plastic. Plenty to stop it from melting.

Try it, you'll like it.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Bwa, good to hear it works! Big ed , thanks for the link. T-man just wow. You might have been better off making a whole new shell. It might have been easier!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The shell had a sit period. I took to sanding and scrapping and more stress cracks appeared around the front. I fixed those and I have one spot to redo. I am working on a backlog of items, The reverse boards are next. The caboses are done and returned. 

They are very nice pieces but proper use is a must. 

I will keep you updated.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I thought they were your cabooses?
What did you do open a repair shop to the public? 

The movie house thing, now cabooses. 

Good work. :thumbsup:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Ed, I am helping out the LHS, The former repair man passed on so I picked up some slack. I am thinking of cuttingdown some of my collecting and this is a way to keep learning more about repair. It is has been interesting s far.


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