# Newbie Looking For Guidance



## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

Good afternoon everyone,
Hopefully everyone is having a great day. I've come to the forums looking for advice / guidance from the more experianced. When it comes to model trains, I know nothing. When it comes to doing the model train scenery and terrain, I have a little experieance. I helped my little sister make a zoo for a fourth grade social studies project. That was about a 12" x 24" alligator exhibit with a news paper underlayment to make the terrain and plaster cloth draped over the top. It turned out well, but it was small scale and very roughly done with no particular scale associated with it. I recently got bored and decided I needed a hobby. I really enjoyed making the alligator exhibit and decided to try it larger scale. I plan on making a 4' x 8' scene with a train on it. I've found the train track layout that I want to incorporate (the folded dogbone), but I have not bought any of the track or a train to run on it. So that is question one: Should I have a train and accompanying track purchased before beggining my scene? The second dilema I have is what scale to use. I like the idea of the more sorroundings around the train that N scale can provide, but which one is harder to find / more expensive than the other: HO or N? I've limited it to those two scales because around where I live I have never seen anything for other scales. Another question I'm not finding an answer for is what kind of clearances I should use when making tunnels and canyons? I know alot of that will depend on the trains dimmensional data, but I was looking for a clearance that would work off of the 80/20 rule. 80 percent of the time, this size opening will work, but the other 20 percent it might not. I could also use some guidance on train gauges. My understanding is that the gauge is the distance from one wheel set to the other going from side to side. Is there a gauge that is more common than the others? Is there a place I could find dimmensional data for the different gauges of track so that I know what gauge would fit best for my particular project? I'm full of questions and I'm not finding many answers, so any information that you may have, whether its answers to the above questions, tips, tricks, lessons you've learned the hard way, informatino resources, etc, is greatly appreciated. I plan on doing plenty of research and doing a complete layout in a virtual space to ensure everything fits before I begin, but getting to that point is where I'm having some frustrations. Thanks in advance for your time. Have a great day.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

something to get your mind going.
Lay your track first, run for a while to make sure it is the layout you want then add the rest.
why the dogbone, with a 4x8 in N there would be a lot more you can choose from, how did you decide on the shape. 

Read this thread. 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7856

the short video in that thread is a 35" x48". all the structures are N

you can fit a lot of N on a 4x8. and there are plenty of structures and trains to choose from from all scales. price is a question mark, all depends on what you buy. no scale is cheaper if you ask me, you have top of line and bottom of line products in all scales.
clearance depends on what scale your going with.

use our search feature, there is a ton of info there.

If you need to know by all means don't be afraid to ask.

this is just a quick answer to get you thinking.
I am sure you will get more reply's too.

Welcome to the forum too.


edit, check this out for more pictures of N structures, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7158&highlight=scale

there is a lot of used stuff in any scale you choose.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Psycho,

Welcome to the forum. Love the username, by the way!

Good thinking, good questions on your part. As a starter, I would direct you to the National Model RR Association's website ... they have a great resource for starter info, as well as a very detailed set of published standards on clearances, track layout specs, switch specs, etc. for model trains of all scales / gauges ...

http://www.nmra.org/
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/
http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/consist.html

I'd also suggest that you poke around the Walthers website ... they are a large distributor (and mfr) of HO and N trains, landscaping scenery, structures, etc. Better yet, I'd recommend spending about $15 and ordering one of their large catalogs ... it's quite informative to "flip through" the pages to learn "what's out there" when it comes to equipment, scenery, etc. I believe their site has some good instructional videos, too.

http://www.walthers.com/

Here's another site that has some helpful beginner info: track layout ideas, basic train maintenance, etc.:

http://www.thortrains.net/

If you're computer savvy, you might want to download a track layout software program. Many members here use AnyRail ... you can download a starter version (limitted number of track pieces) for free:

http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html

And we've also had an active member here who has developed SCARM software ... I belive this is fully free:

http://www.scarm.info/index_en.html

4'x8' works well for a starter HO setup. I built a simple folded dogbone (or nested figure 8) layout this size:










It's pretty simple/basic, and used conventional (DC) power ... just one mainline track with two dead-end spurs.

But as you conceive your layout, you should ask early in the game:

1. How many trains do you want to run at one time?
2. Might you consider investing in a DCC (digital) control system from the start?

4x8 is a large space for N, though it could be a fun layout. Ultimately, the choice between HO and N will come down to personal preferences.

As someone venturing in, I'd urge you to consider buying used (rather than new) equipment from a reliable source(s). Big price saving potential. And in that regards, the market for used HO stuff is huge.

Hope this all helps,

TJ


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## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

Being new to the hobby I was looking for information on common train kit layouts that were easy to find. I came across the folded dog bone and it looked the coolest. I would love to do a custom track layout, but I don't know alot about the track gauges or the interchangability of track made by different manufacturers. I would hate to buy a lot of track, put it all together, and then it not work. I also am a little weary of grades on the terrain. The common theme of most articles is do not exceed one percent grade, two percent if you absolutely have to. I have an idea in my head for an awesome focal point for the track, but I don't know how I would do it with a one or two percent grade. That's how I ended up with the folded dog bone, its not my ideal layout, but it is a kit that has instructions.  As for the number of trains, initially I'm thinking one train, but how difficult would it be to add a second at a later date? Would it need a separate track or could they run on the same one safely? I'm not sure what a control system does, so I don't know if I'll want / need one from the start. Any information on what it is and why /if I'd need it is greatly appreciated. I'm fairly confident now that the N scale is gonna be the scale for me. I'm off to read through the websites in the above post. Thanks again for all the information.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I think that 2% grade is quite achievable / doable, especially given the spacial constraints of a small layout. Plenty of guys here are in the 2% to 3% range, with reasonably good success ... albeit with decent pulling-power locos. I have a 3+% grade on my little layout, and regularly run with 5 or 6 cars in tow.

TJ


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## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

My concern with the grade is the amount of track required for a climb of any real significance. My idea seems ambitious to me and might not be possible with the space I plan on using to start. I'll post a description of it under the General Model train Discussion and ask if anyone has suggestions on how to pull it off. I'll call it "Is this Layout Acheivable" so that you can easyily find it. I'd include a link in here, but I'm not sure how to do that yet, and since I can't edit my profile yet due to lack of posting experieance (it still thinks I'm a computer) I might not be able to post links yet. Anyways, I've been checking out the links on the NMRA website and have come up with a few more questions. I've spent my lunch break reading through the clearances and track curves information and I can't find a good explanation of the Classes of trains. The sizes are based off the class and the scale, so would the best bet be to plan on using the largest class for the scale I plan on using since I haven't bought any trains yet? I've also seen alot of information on wiring and electrical. I've rewired an entire house before, so I know how to wire things and how to handle electricity, but will the train table need any special power requirements, or does it plug in to a normal outlet and then the track parts take care of the rest of it? I also seen an image (shown only for reference) that looks like a switch that goes on the track that the train activates when it goes passed that would divert the next train through to a different route. Is this an option for running more than one train on the same track? Is running multiple engines and cars on the same line a good / bad idea? Any information is greatly appreciated. Again, thank you all in advance.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One forum suggestion. Break your stuff into paragraphs so it's easier to read.


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## psychotrshman (Jul 19, 2011)

What is the Track Center Dimension refer to? I keep seeing it referenced, but I can't get a good explanation as to what it is. Is it the center line distance between two parallel tracks? If it is and I'm running a single line, does it matter?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Psycho,

In HO, the track radius is referenced to the _midpoint_ between the two rails.

Interestingly, that's not the case with all other track gauges ... Lionel's O27, for instance, is approx 27"_ diameter _to the _outer_ rail. Confusing at times.

Regards,

TJ


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

As far as the cost of N scale vs. Ho scale, they are really about the same. It would seem to make sense that since N scale is smaller, it should be cheaper. But it really isn't. Due to it's small size, there is a lot more hands on assembly at the factory requiring more time and care to produce, and that adds to the cost. 
I gave N scale a try, but it was just too small and delicate for my fumble fingers and almost 50 year old eyes. That's something to consider as well.


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