# Tools Needed for Restoration Beyond Cleaning and Rust Removal



## Irish999 (Feb 27, 2013)

I have been working on my layout and collecting additional cars. Some of the cars I have bought on ebay are pretty beat up and rusted. I have been working at learning how to clean off grime and rust and restore cars based on the tips I have been finding on this forum. I still have cars with other problems though that need more than a good cleaning and I would like to fully restore them. In particualr I have one rusted O Scale American Flyer Pullman car with missing wheels that I would like to restore completely and add lights. Can anyone give me an idea of the tools I will need to aquire to work on cars. My understanding is that I will need a rivot set, and maybe some other tool to remove existing rivots. I have a soddering iron for electrical work. I have seen references to the Brakeman's Rivot Set which sells new for $170, and I have not found any listed for sale used. For painting I figure I will need the necessary items to remove paint and some sort of airbrush to apply paint. Can anyone tell me if I am missing something. Thanks


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

A Dremel, for sure, with some cut-off discs, some stainless steel wire brushes, and some scotchbrite pads. (You can make your own pads easily enough, as long as you have the proper mandrel for the Dremel.)

Easy Off HEAVY DUTY Oven Cleaner (or Walmart equivalent) and an old glass lasagna pan (covered in tin foil) for paint removal.

Small screwdrivers, drill bits, etc. Small paint brushes. Airplane dope to clear-coat small bare-metal bits.

An assortment of fine-tip needle nose pliers is a must, ideally one with a curved/bent tip.

Good quality tweezers.

GooGone, q-tips, old toothbrushes for cleaning / degunking.

Soldering iron for rewiring. (with solder, flux, etc.)

5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil for lubing motors, wheel axles, etc.

I've used off-the-shelf rattle-can spray paint (and mated primer) for most of my projects. (Usually Krylon.)

A good parts source. Try Jeff Kane at The Train Tender (online).

Regards,

TJ


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## Irish999 (Feb 27, 2013)

*Rivots and removal*

What would you recommend for rivoting and rivot removal?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I haven't fiddle with rivets much. When necessary, I'll drill out and replace with a small machine screw.

TJ


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Good list tj. I would also add a magnetic bowl. So when you are working on something you dont accedently drop a screw or washer. I would also add contact cleaner for cleaning ellectrical components. A cheap volt meter ( these guys taught me how to use it). And some pigtails wires with allegator clips ( to power up things on your workbench.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I use the Brakeman's Riveter for riveting tasks.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A magnetic screw driver comes in handy, a telescoping magnet is handy too.

Some just drill the rivets out and do what TJ said, some just add the new rivet and use a nail or punch to peen the end.

They do sell a rivet punch a lot cheaper then what your looking at. though that won't work in all applications.

Evaporust (or some thing) gets rust off.
Read through this thread it has pictures of how it works.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=17219&highlight=evaporust


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You don't have to buy the whole set, you can mix-n-match. Once you have it, it does make a lot of repairs much easier. I find that I need at least one more hand to do riveting with a punch to peen the rivets, and it's not nearly as precise. Now when I repair something, it looks like a factory repair.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You don't have to buy the whole set, you can mix-n-match. Once you have it, it does make a lot of repairs much easier. I find that I need at least one more hand to do riveting with a punch to peen the rivets, and it's not nearly as precise. Now when I repair something, it looks like a factory repair.


But sometimes you could still use three hands, sometimes four would be better. 

It is too bad we couldn't train our feet to help on jobs that need that extra hand.


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## Hellgate (Nov 9, 2011)

I have the Brakeman's Riveter Set as well. I have the basic starter set. I was hesitant to buy it, but I am glad I did. I don't use it that much but when I do replace a rivet, I am glad it is in my arsenal.


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## Dave Farquhar (Feb 20, 2013)

I'd add a drill press to the list. I use mine a lot. You can frequently pick up a used one at an estate sale for much less than the cost of a new one. I think I paid $30 or $40 for mine. It's about 20 years old and has never given me any trouble.

I use it to drill out rivets. In a pinch you can even use it as a rivet press. Put the anvil on the underside, chuck the setting tool in the drill, then just press down with the press. Don't turn it on, of course.

You can get brass rivets and simple setting tools at arts & crafts stores, in the leatherworking section. They're fine for riveting cars back together. 3/16" works for Lionel most of the time; you need 1/8" maximum for Marx. If you want to get started and not spend a lot right up front, that's one way to do it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I bought a drill press on sale at Harbor Freight, $30. It's a pretty decent little unit, I get a lot of use out of it.


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## Hellgate (Nov 9, 2011)

What kind of things do you use the drill press for besides the rivet pressing?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Grj has posted a way to use it as a make shift wheel press, I also use mine with a brass wheel for cleaning up wheels, Polishing ,etc..


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## Dave Farquhar (Feb 20, 2013)

Regarding drill press uses, it makes very quick work of drilling out rivets, and any time I need to drill something nice and straight and precise, it makes it really easy. Much faster than using a hand-held drill. And as long as I line up the piece carefully beforehand, the drill goes exactly where I want it to go. No wandering.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I use the drill press for wire wheels, drilling, and as a stand-in wheel press.


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## Irish999 (Feb 27, 2013)

*Drilling out Rivots*

I am going to look into getting a drill press but I am not clear on how to remove the rivots. What is the general principle involved when you use the drill to get the rivot out? Is the idea that the drill bit is the same size of the whole without the rivot and the drill grinds away at the rivot without expanding the hole?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

No one mentioned that the drill press is good for drilling holes too. 

Edit,
Whoops I see John did.


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## Dave Farquhar (Feb 20, 2013)

Irish, regarding how to drill out rivets: Find the bit that's just a little too large to fit through the rivet hole. Then drill long just enough for the rivet head to pop. That minimizes the damage to any of the other parts. Every once in a while I get in too much of a hurry and end up drilling out more than just the rivet, so it definitely pays to take an extra 30-60 seconds to work slowly, even pausing to check how much further you have to go.

There have been times when checking my work, the rivet has been loose enough to snap it by tilting the part back and forth by hand. It's nice when that happens--my hands are gentler than my tools.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Dave,

What trick might you have for when the rivet starts spiining while you begin drilling it, such that the drill won't cut into the rivet?

That happens to me on occasion ... I then usually forego the dril, and grab the Dremel cutoff wheel, and carefully grind away the rivet head.

What do you do?

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

In that case I use a hand drill and don't drill straight but wobble the drill around. The rivet can still spin, but the drill is cutting away the part that is upset.


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## Dave Farquhar (Feb 20, 2013)

TJ, the only think I can think to add beyond what Servoguy said is to try setting the rivet more tightly (if possible), then drill.

Thankfully, on the Marx cars I usually work on, I don't have that happen very often.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, guys!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One of the neat gadgets in the Brakeman's Rivet kit is an anvil with sharp edges that prevents the rivet from spinning. You place the rivet heat on the anvil and drill from the other side. It's not perfect, but better than no support for the rivet. 










_BR-S, Truck Rivet Securing Tool: (shown with the BR-PB) 
Used to slow down truck rivets when drilling out the old heading 
so the rivet does not spin rapidly and melt a plastic truck._


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

A small drop of CA cures the spinning problem completely, easy to clean off most serfaces when done.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I like that serrated anvil, John ... clever gizmo!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd prefer to use the anvil too, I don't think I want to glue the rivet to the frame and then try to remove it!


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## Dave Farquhar (Feb 20, 2013)

BWA said:


> A small drop of CA cures the spinning problem completely, easy to clean off most serfaces when done.


Hey, I never thought of that. You're right, a few hours in the freezer makes it really easy to chip the CA (superglue) off almost any surface. Even a painted surface in some cases.


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## Srook (Jan 3, 2013)

I would add a single action airbrush and a small compressor. You could pick up an airbrush cheap but a decent compressor will set you back around $100. You don't need anything fancy with the airbrush as you are just using it to shoot paint not traditional airbrush designs.

Scott


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Don't waste money on an air compressor, find a dead Fridge, and, scavange the pump out of it.

I have been using Fridge compressors for years, mostly because, they are FFFRRREEEEEEEE. Also, because they run dead quiet.

For most hobby uses, a Fridge compressor will work great. Just plumb it into an Air Pig, or, even a regular compressor. Make sure you have a saftey valve, they can ramp up pretty high pressure.

I have one hooked up to a 40 gallon air compressor, and, wired into the compressors cutoff switch. It takes about 2 and a half hours to pump it up (125psi), but, I get a couple days out of a tank full (doing pressure cast resin molding). 

I can't hear it running while it's filling the tank. I hate the racket regular compressors make.

So, dead quiet running, basically free for the taking. What's not to like.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Given the fact that the compressor in any A/C unit (the fridge being the same thing) requires the oil that is mixed with the refrigerant, one wonders how long the compressor will last.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

About 38 years give or take a couple of months.

Still got lots of oil in it. I know this, because, it keeps spilling out every time I tip it the wrong way.


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## Irish999 (Feb 27, 2013)

*Paint*

Where do you purchase the paint that you use. Is it paint that you get at a paint store or hardware store, or are there special paints that are made for model railroad rehabilitation at hobby stores that you use?


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## Srook (Jan 3, 2013)

I like the Collector Colors from Hennings. http://henningstrains.com/CollectorColor.html George Tebolt also sells prewar paint colors but I have not tried those yet. Just a note on the Hennings paints, they are very close matches if you are repainting but if you are using them to touch up they will be a little off the original colors. Touch up doesn't look that good with Collector Colors.

Scott


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I use spray paint since I don't have an air brush. I don't care about exactly matching the paint. I buy it from my local auto part store as I found the sprayers on them are higher quality then home depot. It takes practice but the trains look good. They are your trains , paint them as you wish and have fun.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Srook said:


> I like the Collector Colors from Hennings. http://henningstrains.com/CollectorColor.html George Tebolt also sells prewar paint colors but I have not tried those yet. Just a note on the Hennings paints, they are very close matches if you are repainting but if you are using them to touch up they will be a little off the original colors. Touch up doesn't look that good with Collector Colors.
> 
> Scott


I think touching up is almost always a custom mix job, and that's if you can match it even then. Paints fade as they age.

I have bought touchup paint for cars from an on-line source, and they custom mix it based on the age of the car and whether it's been garage kept or out in the weather! I've gotten pretty good, but not perfect, matches.


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## Luke 221 (Feb 12, 2013)

When I drill out rivets, I use only COBALT drill bits. High Speed Steel wont cut the mustard so to speak..


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