# Passenger car lighting ideas



## Mister Bill (Jan 30, 2014)

I am installing LED lighting in my passenger cars, both streamlined and heavyweights.

I am starting with the heavyweights.

I am using Fox Valley roof mounted LED's and I do not have car interiors (yet).

Would you typically install lighting in the baggage car and railroad post office car?

Bill


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have the Athearn Silver Side 70' passenger cars. I installed six
LED lights cut from the reel of 300 . The six LEDs are glued to the car
ceilings. I have both a 70' baggage car and a shorter Rail Post Office
REA car and both have lights. The rail post office car would
normally be staffed on a night run. Not sure that the baggage
would have the lights on, but mine does. I power them through a
rectifier and use a capacitor to smooth out the current and
cut down on flickering.

My LED lights give the effect of flourescents of the 50s 60s era.
I doubt that the heavy weight cars ever got flourescent fixtures.

Don


----------



## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*How many details are in included on a project?*

It is my opinion here at this forum,when trying to represent the real world, there are just
so many details that may be included. or not. So it's really up to you. If you have details, like tables chairs seats, people and such. I think it would be a good idea, to light the living and working areas of the car. so, try it. However it is not mandatory, only you, have the answer, to that question. Regard's,tr1


----------



## AmtrackJim (May 28, 2015)

Where do you find a reel of LED lights for inside the cars?


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Here's one of multitudes of on line dealers in strip lights.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:Led Strip Lights

Google LED STRIP LIGHTS for many others.

The 'warm white' provides the most near flouescent
hue.

They come in a roll of 300. You cut them off in sets of three. The strip
is clearly marked for that. Each 3 LED strip will run on 12 Volts DC. Even
if you used a strip of, say, 9, you would still power it with
12 volts DC. You can even cut off and use one LED, but you would
have to provide a resistor. The voltage reduction resistor is in
each 3 LED strip, however so you only connect it to your DC source.

The strip indicates which terminal is +. There is a self adhesive backing,
but I find it helps to add glue to that.

I use these also to light buildings. An advantage is that they give off
little heat so they're safer for some applications.

Don


----------



## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Buying in bulk is too much for me,is my thought.*

Hi DonR, Do you think we could arrange some type of deal here?
I think I could put to good use a few sets on my railroad here. If you may ? Go ahead and PM
me here at the forum. Thank you, tr1


----------



## AmtrackJim (May 28, 2015)

Thank you DonR.


----------



## trenes115 (Dec 9, 2011)

DonR said:


> I power them through a
> rectifier and use a capacitor to smooth out the current and
> cut down on flickering.
> 
> ...


What size resistor did you use? Oops, I meant to say capacitor.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

trenes115 said:


> What size resistor did you use?


You don't need a resistor for the 300 unit LED strip lights. It is built into
each 3 LED section. They are ready for 12 V DC. The diodes in
the on board rectifier had sufficient voltage drop to make possible
using the 14 to 16 V modified AC DCC track current.

If you meant to ask about the CAPACITOR, my recollection is
that it's a 50 V, 450 mf.

Don


----------



## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*An r/C circuit resister?*

micro farad. And a1/2 watt resister?


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Or even a 1/4 watt resistor, those LEDs pull very little current.

Don


----------



## greenwizard88 (Dec 5, 2014)

When I did it, I used a 100uF 25v capacitor, a 150ohm resister between the rectifier and capacitor, and a 15k ohm resister between the capacitor and LED strip.

The lights stay on for about 30 seconds after cutting track power, and are dim enough that they look realistic. I have a set of 9 Athearn cars I put this setup in, and it looks pretty sweet in the dark. I just need to find a decently priced interior set.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

greenwizard88 said:


> When I did it, I used a 100uF 25v capacitor, a 150ohm resister between the rectifier and capacitor, and a 15k ohm resister between the capacitor and LED strip.
> 
> The lights stay on for about 30 seconds after cutting track power, and are dim enough that they look realistic. I have a set of 9 Athearn cars I put this setup in, and it looks pretty sweet in the dark. I just need to find a decently priced interior set.


15K ohms? That's a lot. The usual is less than 1,000 ohms depending on
source voltage.

Those caps really store the juice. Mine stay on about that time too. There's
sure no flickering.

Don


----------



## greenwizard88 (Dec 5, 2014)

DonR said:


> 15K ohms? That's a lot. The usual is less than 1,000 ohms depending on
> source voltage.
> 
> Those caps really store the juice. Mine stay on about that time too. There's
> ...


It keeps them nice and dim, so they're (almost) not visible if it's bright in the room. It works when when your LEDs are the super-bright variety.

http://imgur.com/a/obSJx#10


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

DonR said:


> Here's one of multitudes of on line dealers in strip lights.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:Led Strip Lights
> 
> ...


Hello Don. I am just now reading your comments regarding the Aug 6,2015 discussion RE: the 12 volt 300 LED light strip. Am I correct in assuming each group of three is in series? Which means each LED is actually a 4 volt LED. Also I intend to install a light sensor and a solar cell to recharge a 1.2 volt battery. How can I make a 1.2 volt AA battery power these?

Thanks for any ideas you can offer.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have not studied the internal circuit of the 3 LED strips.
I suspect the 3 LEDs are parallel fed through the one
resistor. I therefore assume the individual LED to be
the usual 1.5 to 2.5 voltage.

You would have to cut the strips apart to power them
with a 1.5 volt battery. Instead, I would use single
LEDs.

If you have DCC, I would suggest that you power the
strips thru a simple diode rectifier and cap to avoid
flicker as some have noted. It is not difficult to install
power pickup on the trucks. The simple way is to
use a brass strip that rubs against the axles in each
truck. You get
much better pickup, however, by installing wipers
that rub against the back of wheels. That way you
can have all wheel pickup.

Don


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, the three LED's are in series with the typically 150 ohm resistor in series with the three LED's. The white LED's have a typical operating voltage of around 3 volts. A 1.5V battery will not light them at all.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

*LED voltage issue*

I will be powering them from the track. And both of you have given me a better understanding of LED power issues. Thanks again.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you're powering from the track, and you don't have enough voltage, consider one of the buck/boost power modules to bring the voltage up/down. The trick is probably fitting it into an HO sized passenger car.


----------



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

DonR said:


> The rail post office car would
> normally be staffed on a night run.
> Don


Not only would they be staffed, but I believe through the '60's and '70's, they'd be manned by armed guards.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

*LED voltage issue*

I think I understand LEDs but when I connected five 3 volt in series and applied 15 volts transformer, three blew out right away. I tested each with a three volt battery before hand. What am I missing?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You need current limiting with LED's unless you precisely control the voltage.


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

As John warned me, you need to use a resistor, too risky to just connect them in series and hope. John has lots of great ideas on powering LED's but the easiest to for me was to use a variable resistor and adjust it to get to the light level I wanted then measure what the pot was set to and find a resistor that is close to that value to actually use. In general you don't want full brightness on the LED.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

Thanks again Don for the LED strip tip. I ordered the three hundred roll yesterday. Now I ask, I plan to use my 14.90 volt DC 10 amp regulated transformer for all power except track. Will the the current limiting resistors built in to each 3 lamp strip drop the voltage to the proper LED forwarding voltage without running at the maximum current?

I currently use four 3.0 forward volt, 20ma LEDs in series with a 150 ohm limiting resistor for each lamp install. They work great and the temperature is room temperature ( no additional heat generated).

I want to use the LED strips to eliminate the assembly and soldering of each four lamp install.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

I bought my 300 LED roll online through AliExpress for under $10 and free shipping. I now buy all I can here due to low cost and no shipping. Downside is it takes three weeks to receive items.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

I spent a few hours researching this online and discovered that also. I'm new at LED lamping and had a hard time understanding power from just current, not voltage, and the fact that these LEDs rely on power limiting resistors to work properly.


----------



## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

DonR said:


> Here's one of multitudes of on line dealers in strip lights.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:Led Strip Lights
> 
> ...


Say Don, do you by any chance recall exactly who you ordered your light strip from on that link you provided in your post? I only ask because, I ordered a strip for $6.14 in Warm Light from a seller name "Lighting EVER" but when I placed the order and finished the checkout process, my receipt showed some company in China named North Stars Lighting? I emailed Amazon about it but I never heard back from anyone?

Well, the light strip reel finally showed up this morning and yes, it did come all the way from China, so I tested them out by hooking them up to my HO transformer and they look sweet! Man are they bright though!

Now I haven't tried hooking them up to the DCC system as of yet and just did a quick test to see if they were going to work so I connected them to one of my older DC transformers to the track side which is the DC side since they are DC powered. Is there some way of dimming the lights or is that where that diode or resistor or whatever it's called comes into play?

Anyway, just wanted to let y'all know they finally arrived and they do look good when lit. I'm just a little concerned because, in reading many of the reviews on these light strip reels many, many of the buyers complained about the lights burning out or just flat out stop working after a couple months use? I mean there were quite a few negative reviews on these but hey, for $6 we can't expect a whole bunch in today's world, right? LOL.


----------



## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Bloomfield Station said:


> I spent a few hours researching this online and discovered that also. I'm new at LED lamping and had a hard time understanding power from just current, not voltage, and the fact that these LEDs rely on power limiting resistors to work properly.


This is interesting and definitely above my pay-grade because I don't understand electronics at all, nada, zip, zero! When my 300 light strip arrived this morning I immediately took them, connected them to the track side of an older MRC transformer that I have laying around and fired it up. The lights all worked beautifully but man are they bright!

It seemed as I increased the throttle the lights didn't change in intensity at all so I'm wondering if that's where this resistor comes in that you guys are talking about? Funny thing I noticed though when using the DC transformer, they would only light with the transformer in the forward position and increasing or decreasing the throttle changed nothing? If I switched the transformer to reverse, the lights simply went out completely. I switched back to the forward position and the lights came back on.

So, I assume I need this resister soldered between the light strip and the DC transformer, correct? I guess I now need to purchase those powered passenger train trucks because all of my passenger train cars do not have any power set up to them? Can anyone recommend exactly what sets of powered trucks I need for these Athearn cars? All of them are the older Athearn undecorated kits we all call Athearn Blue Box kits. Thanks in advance.


----------



## greenwizard88 (Dec 5, 2014)

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> This is interesting and definitely above my pay-grade because I don't understand electronics at all, nada, zip, zero! When my 300 light strip arrived this morning I immediately took them, connected them to the track side of an older MRC transformer that I have laying around and fired it up. The lights all worked beautifully but man are they bright!
> 
> It seemed as I increased the throttle the lights didn't change in intensity at all so I'm wondering if that's where this resistor comes in that you guys are talking about? Funny thing I noticed though when using the DC transformer, they would only light with the transformer in the forward position and increasing or decreasing the throttle changed nothing? If I switched the transformer to reverse, the lights simply went out completely. I switched back to the forward position and the lights came back on.
> 
> So, I assume I need this resister soldered between the light strip and the DC transformer, correct? I guess I now need to purchase those powered passenger train trucks because all of my passenger train cars do not have any power set up to them? Can anyone recommend exactly what sets of powered trucks I need for these Athearn cars? All of them are the older Athearn undecorated kits we all call Athearn Blue Box kits. Thanks in advance.


LED intensity is based off of amps, not volts. Once you put out enough amperage to get them to turn on, they're on... and cranking up the volts doesn't matter.

The resistor drops voltage, but if you drop the voltage enough you effect the amps too... (very generically speaking)...

The reason why the LED only works in one direction is because they have a + and - side. Literally, a LED is a Light Emitting Diode, and a diode only works in one direction. They're great for directional headlights but in order to make them light in either direction you'll need an H-bridge. They take an input of + or - and convert it to a constant + and -, no matter which way the train is running. You can pick a 10 pack up off ebay for $1-$2.

Another cool feature about the H-bridge is it prevents the electricity from going back to the track, so if you attach a capacitor to the LED strip, it will act as a keep alive.

--------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the pickup from the track, I just used a brass strip around the screw, and connect a wire to the top of the screw (inside the car). The wheels are already metal.


----------



## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

greenwizard88 said:


> LED intensity is based off of amps, not volts. Once you put out enough amperage to get them to turn on, they're on... and cranking up the volts doesn't matter.
> 
> The resistor drops voltage, but if you drop the voltage enough you effect the amps too... (very generically speaking)...
> 
> ...


Electronics really mess with my mind, I just don't get it. I knew enough to connect the strip to the DC side of the transformer though because I knew if I connected them to the accessories side which is AC on those older transformers, that would have blown the strip.

I was just surprised the throttle didn't increase or decrease the light intensity? The transformer says 17.4 VDC Max. so I was a little concerned it might blow the light strip since it claims to be 12 VDC? Doesn't the old DC transformers increase and decrease in power when moving the throttle? I assumed that's what makes the trains speed up, slow down and stop but, it had no effect on the light strip?


----------



## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

GRJ mention the use of a CL-2 current limiting device. It limits the current to 20 (22?) ma. John, could a resistor be used in parallel with the LED to reduce the current thru the LED and hence dim it a little? This would make a great circuit for passenger lighting including having a keep-alive capacitor in the circuit.


----------



## greenwizard88 (Dec 5, 2014)

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> Electronics really mess with my mind, I just don't get it. I knew enough to connect the strip to the DC side of the transformer though because I knew if I connected them to the accessories side which is AC on those older transformers, that would have blown the strip.
> 
> I was just surprised the throttle didn't increase or decrease the light intensity? The transformer says 17.4 VDC Max. so I was a little concerned it might blow the light strip since it claims to be 12 VDC? Doesn't the old DC transformers increase and decrease in power when moving the throttle? I assumed that's what makes the trains speed up, slow down and stop but, it had no effect on the light strip?


Transformers vary the voltage at a more or less constant amperage. Since the amperage remains constant, the lights remain at the same brightness.

Now that's not to say that the amperage doesn't vary at all, but a LED uses something like 1/250th that a DC transformer puts out (very rough estimate). Given that amperage is equal to voltage divided by resistance, and the resistance of the resistor is so high, the change in voltage is negligible.


----------



## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Alrighty then! Yep, this is way above my pay-grade, lol.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lemonhawk said:


> GRJ mention the use of a CL-2 current limiting device. It limits the current to 20 (22?) ma. John, could a resistor be used in parallel with the LED to reduce the current thru the LED and hence dim it a little? This would make a great circuit for passenger lighting including having a keep-alive capacitor in the circuit.


Yep, AAMOF, I have done that with constant current solutions like the CL-2. All the CL-2 wants to do is deliver it's rated current, and it doesn't care if it's sending it to a resistor or the LEDs.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

*LED voltage issue*

Hey guys. Use this website to answer the questions exactly as you are discussing.. It will answer the series, parallel, drop voltage, current flow, forward voltages as you connect LED's. I suggest you go 0.2 volts and 0.003 milliamps lowerr than what the led's are arted for to make them last longer. Hot LEd's are short lived LED's.

I'll help if I can. I studied these sites to determine what to buy and install. I also buy my 300 LED strips for $2. No power supply but you don't need one if you have 120 to 15 volts, AC or DC power supplied. I have my track wired with a 10 AMP 14.96 volt regulated transformer and it will operate over 6000 white LED's. I use it for only lighting. I don't use the controller for track (DC / DCC) for track only to rediuce heat.

http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

*Passenger car lights*

Sorry, I forgot to say where I bought mine at $2.00; AliExpress. Search for LED strips. Free shipping. Narrow the attributes to prices between $1 and $3 to shorten the list. No power supply but if you need one don't narrow the attributes.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's the actual link, $1.95 with free shipping, not bad!

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5m-3...3158.html?spm=2114.13010108.99999999.7.bDnwNQ


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

Damn the Chinese! I just hope I can buy all of my train stuff there before Trump gets in place a tarif so high Americans will have to make em. 

Hmmm. Now that's a good idea!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I ordered a bunch, hard to go wrong at those prices.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

I plan to order about 10 sets or more. I'm going to install these as my flurorescent bulbs go out over countertops. My track / road designs will include LED's installed in the track and I'm going to build a device that will have them come on and go off as vehicles pass over; I'm assuming that in the year 2175 this is what they will have instead of overhead lights lewft on. LED's don't care if turned off and on repeatedly. Of course all buildings will be lit with yellow during day and white LED's will come on at night (darkened) automatically, assuming I have the room power turned on.


----------



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Can I get some ideas on what you guys are using for truck power on these cars and some pics?

At $20 a kit they want I figure I can do it a lot cheaper.


----------



## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

I tried a couple of ideas for passenger cars, they were old blue box with 2 axles per truck.






It didn't really work as I considered both to have too much rolling resistance. My plan was to do this on six cars and I thought, no way so I abandoned the idea. That was fifteen years ago and still haven't seen anything that strikes my fancy. I did get some Ahtearn power trucks with all wheel pickup however they are 33" wheels and not 36". This is a close link but the set I have has a generator on one of the trucks and they are all wheel pickup which is perfect. I think they were called caboose trucks, still pricey though.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG61383


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

*Passenger car lights*

Ok, I have researched and read all I can find on LED loghting for passenger cars. BUT, like always I have to do it different.

I'm building HO articulated cars, subway and every other type of moving passenger I can think of. While I'm a long way from doing all of these, I have learned to plan ahead on every aspect. I want to use the same design and electronic equipment for each.

For articulated passenger: I originally planned on using cells from solar lights but have decided otherwise. I plan to have three engines with eight cars each. For lighting I plan to connect each consist via a small connector to power lights from the engine pickups. I know I want them to not flicker, stay lit when stopped as long as power is available wired to the engine. Since passenger trains include a power car for passenger use, I have room it to install components.

My track power is a Commander 2000 which has 5v AC and varying DC. I'm using LED strip sections of three LED per car. I know I need to eliminate the AC and smooth out the DC; I will not need to "hold" power via a capacitor.

This newby has researched here and online. Yes this newby understands electronics but has not used it since FCC school (1971). I could use help with the diagram and component list.

I'm creating a folder of ideas, problems and solutions as you guys discuss. I've tried to review comments from as far back as 2009 but couldn't find this one solution.


Thanks again everyone.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

*Passenger car lights*

OK, I do need to hold power. Sorry, not mistype just confused.


----------



## Bloomfield Station (Mar 15, 2016)

*Passenger car lights*

Found it agian in O scale but now I understand how to do this with less DC. Thanks


----------



## greenwizard88 (Dec 5, 2014)

Bwells said:


> I tried a couple of ideas for passenger cars, they were old blue box with 2 axles per truck.
> View attachment 174426
> It didn't really work as I considered both to have too much rolling resistance. My plan was to do this on six cars and I thought, no way so I abandoned the idea. That was fifteen years ago and still haven't seen anything that strikes my fancy. I did get some Ahtearn power trucks with all wheel pickup however they are 33" wheels and not 36". This is a close link but the set I have has a generator on one of the trucks and they are all wheel pickup which is perfect. I think they were called caboose trucks, still pricey though.
> http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG61383


I use simple brass strips like in the left side of your photo. I have an Athearn RTR A-B-A set with powered A units and a dummy B, and they can pull a 10 car consist on a flat surface without issue.


----------

