# Model Railroad Hobby is Dying



## jimben

Lots of sales and activity on eBay a year ago and longer. Now, unless very collectable, about nothing is selling. Examples. Light towers sold for $30 a year ago, cannot sell for $10. Traffic light is same. And, Lionel water tower was $30 a year ago. Cannot get $10 for it now after 3 months. All are like new condition. Apparently model railroad hobby is dying due to lack on building railroads and no one wants the old pieces..


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## Jetguy

jimben said:


> Lots of sales and activity on eBay a year ago and longer. Now, unless very collectable, about nothing is selling. Examples. Light towers sold for $30 a year ago, cannot sell for $10. Traffic light is same. And, Lionel water tower was $30 a year ago. Cannot get $10 for it now after 3 months. All are like new condition. Apparently model railroad hobby is dying due to lack on building railroads and no one wants the old pieces..


It's Summer, wrong time to sell trains.
Trains follow a cyclical pattern and yes, Covid slightly changed it last year, but people go outside in summer and yes, diehard train fans think trains all year, but the vast public doesn't. September through maybe March has been the rising pattern for train sales. Again, basic logic is that people have been inside for a year+. Summer hit, the vaccine hit, people are outside and the last thing they are thinking about is a model train indoors. Yes, come fall, we have shows again, it's cold, families reunite for the holidays after a year off, probably might see a huge spike as families get together and trains under the tree season.

But right now, today, June, is a bad time to expect to sell for top dollar on the auction sites- has been and likely will be for the future given people's patterns. People shopping now for a bargain if anything so yeah, exactly what you said, you cannot give it away-especially if they have to pay tax+ shipping.


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## MichaelE

It's been dying for the last 60 years...


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## Jetguy

November, December, and January are typically train high season on the bay.
November- again, people being thinking about the Holiday and getting trains going for family visits. Plus cooler weather and more prone to be indoors.
December- full on panic buying in time for Christmas.
January- spending that Christmas cash.
Feb and Mar- just maybe people file taxes early and get return cash.
April- winding down, taxes due, warming up in some places- putting the trains away for many.


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## Stumpy

If there's something up for auction on fleabay that I want, there always seems to be someone that wants it more than I do.


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## Chops124

I follow British forums, and those fellows seem model train mad. The forums are quite lively, and modelers are so intent that they are not infrequently building layouts in OO that would fit in a closet, one fellow living in such cramped quarters that he runs a Pacific upon stationary rollers: that is the extent of his layout. 

Hornby reported a 30% increase in sales during the lock downs. 

But, in general, there has been a marked shift since the advent of the computer game. I dislike computer games enormously, as there appears to be almost no creativity involved. The ultimate in plug and play, it leaves me stone cold bored.


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## Jetguy

Again, by the very post, you what, listed in March on the downward swing?


jimben said:


> Cannot get $10 for it now after 3 months. All are like new condition.


So yes, between people getting the vaccine, it warming up, people going outside, no, your premium top dollar train item that they also have to pay taxes and shipping on- nope, people are not buying it.
And to @Stumpy, yep, between knowing I have to pay tax and shipping, that limits what I'm willing to bid, and people either don't know or don't realize the true cost often way overbid a reasonable price and then sticker shock themselves when they go to pay on the bay.


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## rsv1ho

I think that I alone kept the hobby alive and ebay sales humming the last winter with over 200 ebay buys. Not anymore. Outside, too much to do. Haven't ran a train or bought a locomotive in weeks. 

Pictured before but fun to post again Ebay/flea mkt buys January '20-April '21 last.


































































Not all, desk/bureau draws are full with NIB stuff.

Running this instead.


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## Stumpy

rsv1ho said:


> Running this instead.


Need a tooth bar for that bucket. Sod will fear you.


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## rsv1ho

Stumpy said:


> Need a tooth bar for that bucket. Sod will fear you.


Been looking at them. $471 at Amazon. Let's see, that's how many locomotives.....

BTW, those were early pictures. Updated desk.


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## mesenteria

jimben said:


> Lots of sales and activity on eBay a year ago and longer. Now, unless very collectable, about nothing is selling. Examples. Light towers sold for $30 a year ago, cannot sell for $10. Traffic light is same. And, Lionel water tower was $30 a year ago. Cannot get $10 for it now after 3 months. All are like new condition. Apparently model railroad hobby is dying due to lack on building railroads and no one wants the old pieces..


You're so wrong that it's actually funny. The latest news is that sales in the toy train hobby have gone ballistic over the past 12 months due to the pandemic. Ballistic sales, low supply as a result, and that is what you are seeing. The hobby has NEVER been stronger....ever..


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## gunrunnerjohn

If you look at MTH prices, they're through the ceiling, doesn't seem like it's dying to me.


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## jimben

Then, why can I not sell the items above for less than half the price a year ago and listed in March?


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## Chops

RSV, so that's where all the trains went! Nice collection!






Few years back, the Club got a visit from the local TV station having a slow news day. While tens of thousands of El Pasoans probably saw the broadcast, we did not get one single new member, visitor, or train donation. Zero, zip nada.


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## Big Ed

rsv1ho said:


> I think that I alone kept the hobby alive and ebay sales humming the last winter with over 200 ebay buys. Not anymore. Outside, too much to do. Haven't ran a train or bought a locomotive in weeks.
> 
> Pictured before but fun to post again Ebay/flea mkt buys January '20-April '21 last.
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> View attachment 560947
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> Not all, desk/bureau draws are full with NIB stuff.
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> Running this instead.
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> View attachment 560954


Quite a collection you have. 
Damn, look how dirty the JD is all ready.


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## Big Ed

jimben said:


> Lots of sales and activity on eBay a year ago and longer. Now, unless very collectable, about nothing is selling. Examples. Light towers sold for $30 a year ago, cannot sell for $10. Traffic light is same. And, Lionel water tower was $30 a year ago. Cannot get $10 for it now after 3 months. All are like new condition. Apparently model railroad hobby is dying due to lack on building railroads and no one wants the old pieces..


Dying? 
This has been talked about for a very long time. Here and elsewhere.
Show your listings, maybe it is your presentation of the sale?
Bad pictures?
Most of the stuff I look at has to be old to interest me. 

Have you tried listing here? Free to list here.
PayPal should be used for peace of mind for both parties?


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## Stumpy

Chops said:


> Few years back, the Club got a visit from the local TV station having a slow news day. While tens of thousands of El Pasoans probably saw the broadcast, we did not get one single new member, visitor, or train donation. Zero, zip nada.


We get the same response when a local news outlet does a piece on Cowboy Action Shooting. Not one person, ever has said, "I saw the story on the local news and decided to come out and give it a look."


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## jimben

I sold $40K on ebay. I know how to display pictures and sell items. Everything I post sells except model train items. I listed here and items never sell here, but sold on ebay until recently.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I just bought a few things on eBay, so some train items are selling. Maybe you're just not selling what I'm buying.


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## Big Ed

jimben said:


> I sold $40K on ebay. I know how to display pictures and sell items. Everything I post sells except model train items. I listed here and items never sell here, but sold on ebay until recently.


OK, some have really crappy pictures, dark, out of focus, etc.
Or the write up, something like this, train for sale, nothing else.
Sounds like your a professional seller, 40K ! 

And, If you want to keep your eBay handle a secret, that is OK too.


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## rsv1ho

Well you sent me squiring to "My ebay" to see my feedback rating -100% positive 1275 over a 20+ year relationship. ebay loves me so much a few months ago they gave a a $25 coupon towards anything I bought.  I would say my ratio is about 60/40 buys to sales. But when I do sell I post clear pictures and accurate but concise descriptions. Picture example of my current auction.



















BTW, I will probably sell this at a loss. I bought 17 of these at the height of their popularity, much less so today. All needed cleaning and repair. My pleasure is doing just that, revenue gain is secondary.

This is what most look like when I get them.



















Those that suffer through my posts know that I do the same with locomotives.


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## Steve Rothstein

jimben said:


> I sold $40K on ebay. I know how to display pictures and sell items. Everything I post sells except model train items. I listed here and items never sell here, but sold on ebay until recently.


Perhaps the hobby is not dying, but it is changing. Is what you are selling representative of how the hobby may be changing?

For example, my second son and I got into the hobby around December, 2020. He wanted a new hobby and suggested model trains. When I was a kid, my father collected and ran HO scale trains. At a couple times, I had some HO scale layouts, but it was more toy/beginner sets than a real hobby. At one point, my brother-in-law gave my oldest son his old Lionel trains set. So, when my son and I decided to get into the hobby, we first had to decide on the scale to use. We had limited room, basically a part of his garage was all. This seemed to us to make a 4x8 sheet of plywood about the max layout size to start with. We wanted more than just a simple loop, which rules out anything larger than HO gauge. After going to the local hobby shop a few times and looking around and talking, we chose N gauge trains. This seemed to me to be the best compromise between available trains and supplies, price, and size to allow things to be done. Since we started, I have spent about $7,500 on train things. But we are down to our last trains to buy and are concentrating more on scenery now. The latest expenses have been on things like grass and dirt, maybe a few buildings, and items to sit on the layout. Even that is slowing down a little as we are both back in the office for work instead of working from home and Texas gets hot in the summer (which begins in April and goes through October in this part).

One of the other considerations is that we have bought very little used stuff. Maybe a few buildings we found that fit what we were looking for, but all of the locomotives and rolling stock were bought new. I like to think I am not that unusual, but I may or may not be representative of people joining the hobby now. I have heard talk about every hobby I have looked at dying, but when I look closer, it is more change than death. Model airplanes, for example, have changed a lot since I first flew one in 1980, with the advent of drones and first person view flying. I have trouble finding basic wood kits that are designed for glow fuel motors, but the AMA (their certifying body) is larger than ever. Change definitely, but not dying in any fashion.


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## jimben

I know most prefer the 'plasticville' buildings vs real wood with 40+ trim pieces that look real for some reason.


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## rsv1ho

It would be interesting to know if ebay maintains statistics within each category. A simple way to gauge if items within each category were gaining, maintaining, or losing popularity.


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## briangcc

I've seen the cycle before. Right now its going to be lean as, already mentioned, people have shifted to outdoor activities. Most have trains on the back burner....mine are the minute it turned warm as I'm waiting on a front door install which happens to be right above the layout. So rather than risk damage to scenery, I put a hold on the train/layout work.

Also somewhere in there I spun up (4) fresh water aquariums so that took funds I'd normally allocate to trains.

Come Fall/Winter, I suspect you'll see auctions pick up again as "the bug" will strike most to add to their collection. So I'd describe what you're seeing as more cyclic than anything else.


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## MacDaddy55

Get off Ebay and do Face book Market Place you'll have Shipping and Local Pickup...the trend is moving to this and Craigs List!! There are options and just take a breath it will be fine!!


jimben said:


> Then, why can I not sell the items above for less than half the price a year ago and listed in March?


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## vette-kid

MacDaddy55 said:


> Get off Ebay and do Face book Market Place you'll have Shipping and Local Pickup...the trend is moving to this and Craigs List!! There are options and just take a breath it will be fine!!


I have due a fair bit of deals on FB marketplace lately. I'm guessing it's easier for the seller. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## shaygetz

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here over the mortal remains of model railroading, killed by slot cars...er, no...plastic model kits...nope...maybe Disco?...nope, nope...pet rocks maybe?...nah, r/c cars...yeah, no...r/c airplanes...yeah, that did it...nothing more satisfying than drilling $1000 holes in the local park...video games...yeah, yeah, video games done did it...oh, wait...computers?...stamp collecting? ... Matchbox cars? ...fly fishing? ... Legos and K'nex? Sooner or later, surely something will kill it...some day...maybe...honest...honest...


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## rsv1ho

shaygetz said:


> Dearly beloved, we are gathered here over the mortal teams of model railroading, killed by slot cars...er, no...plastic model kits...nope...maybe Disco?...nope, nope...pet rocks maybe?...nah, r/c cars...yeah, no...r/c airplanes...yeah, that did it...nothing more satisfying than drilling $1000 holes in the local park...video games...yeah, yeah, video games done did it...oh, wait...computers?...stamp collecting? ... Matchbox cars? ...fly fishing? ... Legos and K'nex? Sooner or later, surely something will kill it...some day...maybe...honest...honest...


I know your humor and understand that you mean it in a tongue-in-cheek way. Like you, I believe that model trains and it's hobby will long out-live all of those if there is human kind still around to enjoy the hobby. .


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## Old_Hobo

I didn’t read his post as tongue-in-cheek….the whole thing is true….

Just because some people are having trouble selling their junk trains on ebay doesn’t meant the hobby is dying…..it says to me that people are buying the good stuff when it comes out, and are keeping it and using it…..IMHO…..


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## shaygetz

When I sell, I post everything at 99 cents starting bid. That way, everyone has a chance to pick up what they want. I've been disappointed a couple times, surprised at other times, but I've never regretted doing that. The market is the final arbiter, and I hope that, in some small way, I'm helping to pass the hobby on.


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## rsv1ho

shaygetz said:


> When I sell, I post everything at 99 cents starting bid. That way, everyone has a chance to pick up what they want. I've been disappointed a couple times, surprised at other times, but I've never regretted doing that. The market is the final arbiter, and I hope that, in some small way, I'm helping to pass the hobby on.


I did that with one of my Cox tether cars pictured above. Started at .99 it still went for as much as ones I started at $200. 

I feel the same way, I'm not running them so why not give those that do a chance.


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## CTValleyRR

MichaelE said:


> It's been dying for the last 60 years...


But somehow, like the old plague victim in Monty Pythkn and the Holy Grail, it's never quite dead yet...


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## CTValleyRR

jimben said:


> I know most prefer the 'plasticville' buildings vs real wood with 40+ trim pieces that look real for some reason.


They do? News to me. I would say that's just a small segment of the hobby.


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## Stumpy

I wouldn't say "most", but there is a contingent that collects the older, less than super-detailed, not rivet-counter models.


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## CTValleyRR

Old_Hobo said:


> I didn’t read his post as tongue-in-cheek….the whole thing is true….
> 
> Just because some people are having trouble selling their junk trains on ebay doesn’t meant the hobby is dying…..it says to me that people are buying the good stuff when it comes out, and are keeping it and using it…..IMHO…..


A day does not go by when someone doesn't point to some event (often one that is explained by other factors) and predict the imminent demise of model railroading. And yet it soldiers on, changing with the times and the demographics, but always here.

Except this January (which doesn't count because of Covid-19) the Amherst Model Railroad show has had higher attendance numbers than the previous year, and the exhibition space has tripled over its original size. When that behemoth folds for lack of attendance, I'll believe the hobby is dying, but not before.


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## shaygetz




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## jimben

I donated all my items to a 14 year old that wants to start an ON30 train. 10 buildings, water tower, light tower, RR traffic light, street lights 4' x 8' track, etc. Per ebay, items were not worth much if anything.


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## Old_Hobo

If anyone is in a hobby because they think the associated items will be worth more someday, then don’t get into a hobby….


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## jimben

Hobo, who said worth more. The pieces are worth nothing unlike a year or two ago. The hobby is dying, not growing with no demand for vintage items.


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## Old_Hobo

The hobby is not dying…..have you read the posts completely…..?


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## jimben

Take Ham Radio for example. Every vintage item sells fast and usually for more money than paid. Model RR? Not.


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## Old_Hobo

And your point is…..?


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## vette-kid

I'm new to the model RR scene, but generally people want items that run and function well and most at least want operating lights and good detail. Generally speaking, the old stuff is far inferior to newer items in those regards. If your trying to sell older stuff, perhaps that's the issue. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## shaygetz

I purchase items that retain as much value as possible, with the idea that those I leave behind have clear instructions on how to sell what I have...at 99 cents starting bid. The last thing I want is buzzards flying over my family's heads looking to pick over what I've got. I see no sign of the hobby waning out here, the local club is doing great.


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## GNfan

I seem to recall Barry finding a couple of tether cars on an old episode of "Storage Wars".


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## GNfan

GNfan said:


> I seem to recall Barry finding a couple of tether cars on an old episode of "Storage Wars". Google Storage


Google "Barrys Race Car".


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## shaygetz

Model railroading funeral train...not a "ready to run" piece in the train...


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## briangcc

jimben said:


> Hobo, who said worth more. The pieces are worth nothing unlike a year or two ago. The hobby is dying, not growing with no demand for vintage items.


And see....I actually *prefer* the older stuff right now for my boys. Why? It's usually cheaper, has less details that can be broken off, and if they want it painted in camouflage or some weird superhero scheme....so be it! That's the stuff I search out in all honesty. Unless its a MTH M&M car for my wife's train but that's another story.

Would I like to run all the new Atlas, MTH, Lionel, etc with individual grabs & stirrups, finely detailed ladders and air hoses? Sure shooting as I cut my teeth on doing just that in HO. BUT...my kids would destroy that in all of 2 seconds flat. Not that they're doing it intentionally, rather they're still very young and just don't know better. As they continue to mature, they'll get into the better quality items.


So...my 3 boys would argue with you that trains are a dying hobby....and they'd point to the 7+ bins of their trains under their layout as proof.


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## CTValleyRR

jimben said:


> Hobo, who said worth more. The pieces are worth nothing unlike a year or two ago. The hobby is dying, not growing with no demand for vintage items.


But that's just it: the lack of demand for vintage items doesn't mean the hobby is dying, any more than the lack of demand for used books means the publishing industry is dying, or a lack of demand for used cars means the auto industry is about to fold.

The demand for NEW items is sky high right now, with an unprecedented number of new items being released. People might be losing interest in the stuff you're interested in, but that's a different subject entirely. Your assertion that the hobby is dying reflects an artifical value judgement and the assumption that older is better, which might be true for you, but it isn't true for everyone, or even a majority. The hobby is growing and changing, and that's exciting. I'd rather be a part of that living and growing segment of the hobby than the one that is forever looking backwards through rose colored glasses.


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## darryl1936

Good times for buying at least here in Yuma as older fellows are giving up the hoard and few if any buyers around. I pick up some collections that will sell on eBay but very selective these days as with eBay fees, PayPal fees, shipping just makes the margin too slim to make it worth while and going over 125 miles to a train show/swap meet is none productive. The local club is slowly shrinking as no younger members is sight. The club used to do the Fair Grounds every year but never found a new member. Presentations at the school didn't work either. Dying maybe so...


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## rvnmedic6869

rsv1ho said:


> I think that I alone kept the hobby alive and ebay sales humming the last winter with over 200 ebay buys. Not anymore. Outside, too much to do. Haven't ran a train or bought a locomotive in weeks.
> 
> Pictured before but fun to post again Ebay/flea mkt buys January '20-April '21 last.
> 
> View attachment 560947
> 
> 
> View attachment 560948
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> 
> View attachment 560949
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> 
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> 
> View attachment 560951
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> 
> View attachment 560952
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> 
> 
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> 
> Not all, desk/bureau draws are full with NIB stuff.
> 
> Running this instead.
> 
> View attachment 560954


I started looking at the images and was impressed, but scrolling down there's more! But wait, there's still more! Did you copy pages from a catalog? JK VERY impressive!

Looking at your tractor, at least we have something in common. Except mine is a Kubota diesel, 27HP came with the loader and a 52" Kubota snowblower. It's a 2015 model and was kept in excellent condition. I forgot to add that it has a cab with windshield wipers and a heater. I sold my 2004 Corvette and bought it. Wish I had one sooner for all the landscaping I do. And for snowblowing. I've been using a Cub Cadet walk behind on a 175' driveway on a slope. Now I sit on my butt with a cup of coffee and nice and warm. We get an average of 6-12' each winter and more than a few that exceed it easily. Well, anyway, fantastic collection of trains and tractor! Cheers, Bob


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## seacoast

jimben said:


> Lots of sales and activity on eBay a year ago and longer. Now, unless very collectable, about nothing is selling. Examples. Light towers sold for $30 a year ago, cannot sell for $10. Traffic light is same. And, Lionel water tower was $30 a year ago. Cannot get $10 for it now after 3 months. All are like new condition. Apparently model railroad hobby is dying due to lack on building railroads and no one wants the old pieces..


Maybe in certain scales or gauges it’s slow butnotot in N And HO scales CERTAIN ROADS OR ENGINES arSOLD OUT.With the pandemic model railRoading has had an upturn its all personal perspective and opinion IMO.


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## scenicsRme

Stumpy said:


> If there's something up for auction on fleabay that I want, there always seems to be someone that wants it more than I do.


So YOU'RE the one who keeps outbidding me!!! LOL!


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## GeeTee

jimben said:


> Take Ham Radio for example. Every vintage item sells fast and usually for more money than paid. Model RR? Not.


No. a Kenwood 520 that sold $500 new , you cant give them away. I have 940 sitting on my desk ( cost $1000 + new) , I paid $350 for it to use as a lightening rod. Galvanized steel crankups that sold new $10,000 your lucky to get $3500.

the activity level is pathetic.


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## seacoast

eBay da bay isfickle but I look for positive reviews and free shipping snd a good buy it now or make a offer price not everyone is looking to buy prewarLionel in the summer but sooner or later the stuff will sell. Look ar comp prices of similar items =what are they selling for? Best of luck to you.
George


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## Dennis461

try selling 35mm cameras


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## gunrunnerjohn

I have a nice Olympus OM2, I can't give it away on eBay. It even has a bunch of extra stuff, lenses, motor drive, etc.


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## Desperado

I don't think it's fair to say it's dying. Evolving may be a better way. I can say that if you are in this to collect and then flip - well you may be disappointed. It may have been that at one point, but I don't think it is that way any longer. It seems to me to be evolving into a, better, more personal flavor type of hobby. I love to see what others have done - really do - I appreciate the time effort and vision some people have. But that does not necessarily make me want to buy your Rock Island, or Union Pacific item (examples) no matter how rare they may be. I have my own vision for my railroad and that vision drives what I am looking to buy.


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## seacoast

Dennis461 said:


> try selling 35mm cameras


OK, I own a 35 mm Canon dslr not film , but a digital 35mm along with multiple lenses. t
still takes phots that iPhone can't , mode train's they have gone all digital the past 20 year's. You can still use film in 35 mm but digital is-my pick just like trains you can still use analog and have a great DC Powered layout . Whatever floats your boat. Thanks,
george


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## shaygetz

What...wait...you mean all this high dollar, accurate, sound, r-t-r purchase and plant computer equipped dreck going on lately, is actually model railroading? ...who knew?


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## shaygetz

So long as there are kids like this, the hobby has a good future...


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## Lemonhawk

Recently film cameras have been selling, according to a recent on line video chat. You might try selling that OM2 (I have one also, but it was bought at a garage sale about 10 years ago). By the way there is a procedure to recock the OM2 if its been without battery for awhile. I had an OM1 when they first came out, now I use an EM1 Mark II, amazing camera. Long ago when I had the OM! I was at Disney World when the camera locked up and quit. In desperation I when to the main street camera store in Disney World to see what I could get to take a few pictures. The guy behind the counter asked to look at the camera and in less than 5 seconds had it unlocked and working! He handed be two rolls of film and sent me on my way!


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## gunrunnerjohn

I had it out after years of storage about a year ago, everything appeared to work fine.


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## rsv1ho

rvnmedic6869 said:


> I started looking at the images and was impressed, but scrolling down there's more! But wait, there's still more! Did you copy pages from a catalog? JK VERY impressive!
> 
> Looking at your tractor, at least we have something in common. Except mine is a Kubota diesel, 27HP came with the loader and a 52" Kubota snowblower. It's a 2015 model and was kept in excellent condition. I forgot to add that it has a cab with windshield wipers and a heater. I sold my 2004 Corvette and bought it. Wish I had one sooner for all the landscaping I do. And for snowblowing. I've been using a Cub Cadet walk behind on a 175' driveway on a slope. Now I sit on my butt with a cup of coffee and nice and warm. We get an average of 6-12' each winter and more than a few that exceed it easily. Well, anyway, fantastic collection of trains and tractor! Cheers, Bob


Yeah, but none added lately. Static and expected to stay that way at least until November.

One thing for sure, you will never lose that Kubota in the woods, unlike John Deere green.

My go-to camera for the last 10 years. Olympus C-3000. Bought seven of them on ebay, some for around $5.00. I have a Nikon L120 digital also but gets very little use.


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## MichaelE

My last film camera was a Canon A-1. Before that, I had a Canon A-1 Program, AE-1 Program, and a Tlb. I finally gave in and now use a phone camera. I couldn't find anyone that could develop celluloid film any more without sending it off and waiting three weeks.

I do find that I like the convenience of instant photos and the ability to edit in Photoshop. In addition, I can see them on any computer at huge sizes depending upon the display monitor.

The downside is that unless you print them you have nothing tangible to actually hold in your hands. Another was the cost of developing and printing and enlargements. None of that exists any longer with a printer full of photo paper.


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## Steve Rothstein

MichaelE said:


> My last film camera was a Canon A-1. Before that, I had a Canon A-1 Program, AE-1 Program, and a Tlb. I finally gave in and now use a phone camera.


My favorite camera ever was the A-1. When I upgraded from an AE-1 to it, I could not think of anything else I would want in a camera.

I was out of photography for awhile, then bought a Rebel XTi to use for work. It was good, but I still prefer film overall. I finally gave it to my son and, like you, went to using my phone camera.

I have considered buying a new digital video camera for my videos, and looking at the SLR Canons which also record video. I can't bring myself to pay the price they are asking for good ones that will not do much better than my son's Iphone. Something still feels wrong about buying a phone for its camera, but I do always have it with me for quick shots.


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## MichaelE

MichaelE said:


> My last film camera was a Canon A-1. Before that, I had a Canon A-1 Program, AE-1 Program, and a Tlb. I finally gave in and now use a phone camera. I couldn't find anyone that could develop celluloid film any more without sending it off and waiting three weeks.
> 
> I do find that I like the convenience of instant photos and the ability to edit in Photoshop. In addition, I can see them on any computer at huge sizes depending upon the display monitor.
> 
> The downside is that unless you print them you have nothing tangible to actually hold in your hands. Another was the cost of developing and printing and enlargements. None of that exists any longer with a printer full of photo paper.





Steve Rothstein said:


> My favorite camera ever was the A-1. When I upgraded from an AE-1 to it, I could not think of anything else I would want in a camera.
> 
> I was out of photography for awhile, then bought a Rebel XTi to use for work. It was good, but I still prefer film overall. I finally gave it to my son and, like you, went to using my phone camera.
> 
> I have considered buying a new digital video camera for my videos, and looking at the SLR Canons which also record video. I can't bring myself to pay the price they are asking for good ones that will not do much better than my son's Iphone. Something still feels wrong about buying a phone for its camera, but I do always have it with me for quick shots.


That's why I bought an iPhone 12 Pro. I hate Apple products but I can't deny they have the best camera phone on the market.


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## gunrunnerjohn

MichaelE said:


> That's why I bought an iPhone 12 Pro. I hate Apple products but I can't deny they have the best camera phone on the market.


Funny, more than one site rates the Samsung Galaxy S21 5G (the phone I have) over any of the iPhones.  I'm very happy with the camera on my phone, and I can't remember the last time I looked for one of the several older digital cameras I have kicking around.
*Forbes 2021 Camera Phone Ratings.







*

In truth, virtually all of the current phones have really good cameras, pretty difficult to separate one from the pack.


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## shacomm

Not dead... guys like me are coming into the fold. Buying simple stuff on the bay, reading the posts, learning a little about the rolling stock the toys are based on, learning to appreciate the difference between the toys and the scale equipment. Beginner stuff may not be a hot market right now, but it's still a market. Then guys like me will move up-market and another group of beginners will follow. You are all good people and willing to politely let us new guys ask silly questions. That kindness will keep the joy alive for all of the new people to come. By the way, I'm looking for a couple of crossing gates for my oval layout.


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## MichaelE

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Funny, more than one site rates the Samsung Galaxy S21 5G (the phone I have) over any of the iPhones.  I'm very happy with the camera on my phone, and I can't remember the last time I looked for one of the several older digital cameras I have kicking around.
> *Forbes 2021 Camera Phone Ratings.
> View attachment 561455
> *
> 
> In truth, virtually all of the current phones have really good cameras, pretty difficult to separate one from the pack.


Seems it has fallen from the #1 spot over the months.

However, this site, Digital Camera World, still rates it at #2. Tom's rates it at #5, while the iPhone 12 ProMax has the top spot in front of the Samsung.

I think it depends upon what they are basing their ratings on and who's opinion you believe.


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## Old_Hobo

Just like model railroading….opinions are many, and varied…..and there’s nothing wrong with that….


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## gunrunnerjohn

MichaelE said:


> Seems it has fallen from the #1 spot over the months.
> 
> However, this site, Digital Camera World, still rates it at #2. Tom's rates it at #5, while the iPhone 12 ProMax has the top spot in front of the Samsung.
> 
> I think it depends upon what they are basing their ratings on and who's opinion you believe.


My real point here was that all the new phones have pretty good cameras, and it's pretty hard to pick a winner unless there's one feature that you "must" have. I can say the camera on my Samsung Galaxy S21 5G is considerably better than the one on my previous phone, the Galaxy S8 Plus. There is constant improvement with each generation. I believe the camera is one of the major features that everyone looks at when picking a phone. Gosh, all the phones make phone calls, where's the fun in that?


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## Stumpy

My Nikon DSLR, purchased in 2005, is 8 megapixel. The rear-facing camera on my Motorola Droid phone purchase about five years ago is 21 MP. I love to shoot with my DSLR and keep thinking, "I need to upgrade to a camera that's _at least_ as good as my phone."

Then I remember that "Full HD" monitors (1920x1080) are only 2 MP and your garden variety laser printer can't even come close to that resolution.


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## mesenteria

I believe the point has been reached where a person could legitimately call the cell phone camera they own the top of the class. They're so close it isn't funny. The die-hard camera guys are beginning to fidget and look at each other, desperate to hang on to their claims that no small chip phone can compare to, and get the dynamic range of, a $1000 DSLR or micro 4/3, and even the top drawer mirrorless cameras. They ignore that cell phone camera development is in a class all by itself, that it leans heavily on software for processing, and that the huge majority of people find the results to be pleasing. They couldn't care less if a DSLR can compete...who wants to carry one? And its lenses?


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## Lemonhawk

There is a big difference between a smart phone camera and the new digital cameras, but it does require some effort to advance your photographic skills and if your happy with the phone camera, you probably would just let the camera sit unused if you bought one.


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## MichaelE

In many cases it's nearly impossible to get a full size DSLR camera into some of the tight spots found on model railroads, especially in the smaller scales and a high-end camera phone excels in this role.


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## CTValleyRR

In the hands of a photographer who knows what he's doing, the results obtained with a DSLR camera are much, much better than a phone camera. But for the other 99.999% of us, whose abilities are largely limited to "point and pray" the phone camera works just fine.


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## CTValleyRR

shacomm said:


> Not dead... guys like me are coming into the fold. Buying simple stuff on the bay, reading the posts, learning a little about the rolling stock the toys are based on, learning to appreciate the difference between the toys and the scale equipment. Beginner stuff may not be a hot market right now, but it's still a market. Then guys like me will move up-market and another group of beginners will follow. You are all good people and willing to politely let us new guys ask silly questions. That kindness will keep the joy alive for all of the new people to come. By the way, I'm looking for a couple of crossing gates for my oval layout.


We've kind of put the original proposition to bed now. It's pretty clear that the OP's point was never about the death of the hobby and always about him not being able to sell stuff on eBay. The two things are about as closely related as squirrels and jellyfish.


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## MichaelE

You've never had a squirrel sandwich with jellyfish sauce?!


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## Old_Hobo

Well, at least we know the photography hobby is alive and well….. 😁


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## Old_Hobo

CTValleyRR said:


> We've kind of put the original proposition to bed now. It's pretty clear that the OP's point was never about the death of the hobby and always about him not being able to sell stuff on eBay. The two things are about as closely related as squirrels and jellyfish.


Although he hasn’t chimed for 9 days now….rattled the cage and left…..


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## CTValleyRR

MichaelE said:


> You've never had a squirrel sandwich with jellyfish sauce?!


My favorite! Very tasty! But two very different things.


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## DalesParts

Nope. Changing, yes. Dying no.


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## shaygetz

DalesParts said:


> Nope. Changing, yes. Dying no.


^^^This...I knew I was a stranger to the hobby back in '98-99 when MR magazine featured on it front cover a layout that was made up of nothing by preassembled, ready to run products placed on a Woodland Scenics covered platform. I recognized every one of them, there was nothing he actually built. The owner looked for all the world like he was passing a kidney stone as he was photographed running it. Another issue featured a guy who ran all brass cars on a layout he had an employee to build for him. The employee's job was to work on it for forty hours a week. The only thing the owner did was sign checks.

None of those things was bad in itself. It just reflects the hobby as it is and not the one I grew up on.


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## Old_Hobo

Agreed……remember when EVERY car was a kit? Now, every car and locomotive is RTR, and new kits are very rare, although some manufacturers, like Tangent and Intermountain for instance, do offer their cars as kits….

And a specail shout-out to Accurail…..great kits of great cars!


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## shaygetz

Old_Hobo said:


> Agreed……remember when EVERY car was a kit? Now, every car and locomotive is RTR, and new kits are very rare, although some manufacturers, like Tangent and Intermountain for instance, do offer their cars as kits….


My earliest memories of the hobby are around my desires for certain kits to build. Yes, there was ready to run stuff, but it was generally either low end Tyco and Life-like, or high end brass, but everything else you scratchbuilt, craftsman kit built or came from a "shake the box" kit. Even Athearn took an hour of your life to install the handrails. A little piece of you went into each model, and it showed in the final product. Today's hobby is highly detailed, true to prototype, electronically sophisticated and as sterile to me as a sun bleached bone. 

Again, nothing wrong with the hobby as practiced today, it just left me on the side of the road somewhere around 1978🙂👍


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## Murv2

Kits are still out there; Tichy, AMB, BTSRR, Labelle. No more engines that I've found. RTR quality has gotten better, and I don't remember pre-assembled and painted buildings when I was a kid. Building everything yourself is less popular for sure but it's still possible.


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## CTValleyRR

Murv2 said:


> Kits are still out there; Tichy, AMB, BTSRR, Labelle. No more engines that I've found. RTR quality has gotten better, and I don't remember pre-assembled and painted buildings when I was a kid. Building everything yourself is less popular for sure but it's still possible.


To reiterate the point I made earlier. The availability of RTR stuff makes it possible to avoid aspects of the hobby that you don't enjoy, and save your efforts for what you do enjoy. Now if only someone would invent self-ballasting flex track...


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## Boris

"Now if only someone would invent self-ballasting flex track.."

I all in for that also, since I hate ballasting. Not for nothing, I spent several hours today, working on a structure kit project I began in 2018...maybe, I will finish by July 4th?


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## shaygetz

CTValleyRR said:


> Now if only someone would invent self-ballasting flex track...


Actually, in the mid/late 70s, there was a company that made a molded foam ballasted roadbed that was form fitted around Atlas flex track. Looked pretty good as I recall...


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## Boris

shaygetz said:


> Actually, in the mid/late 70s, there was a company that made a molded foam ballasted roadbed that was form fitted around Atlas flex track. Looked pretty good as I recall...


Now that you have jogged my memory, I sort of recall such a product. Of course, in the 70s much of the flex rail on the market still had fiber ties and brass rail, which had none of the convenience of snap track. My first attempt at a layout with this flex used milled wooden roadbed cut to specific radius, that one painted with a ballast paint before spiking the flex on to it. Worked well if you knew what you were doing, but I didn't know the secrets, and it didn't work well for me. Then a lot of what I did in the 70s didn't work out well for me either...


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## shaygetz

When I was a teenager in the 70s, my layout was in the basement of our house...a very damp basement. Any wood kit I built would grow a 1/2" thick gray fuzz of mold on it. Needless to say none of my work from that time survives...sigh...


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## Boris

Ah, yes. Another fond (?) memory of my early modeling. At least it felt cool down in the basement, which was great in a 1915 build brick row that held the summer heat, above ground level. Trade off I guess...


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## Lemonhawk

Back in the early 60's, as a teenager I built my first layout using TruScale road bed. (I think I have the name right). It was wood road bed with ties milled out that had guides for the rail. It looked good to me and was easy to spike the rail down. Its disadvantage was the limited set of curved roadbed they made.

Now I use Central Valley ties and glue the rail to the ties. Sort of the same process as spiking, but much simpler and your not forced into any strict radius on curves!


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## DalesParts

Yea yea yea.......yada yada yada....railway was dying 50 years ago too. As long as they are making BIG things, folks will make small versions. Why? Cause it's fun.


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## MichaelE

I remember the flex track with the fiber ties. I used a lot of it back in the 70's. My layout(s) were also in a cool basement back then. I spent a lot of time down there in the summer months.


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## Boris

Lemonhawk said:


> Back in the early 60's, as a teenager I built my first layout using TruScale road bed. (I think I have the name right). It was wood road bed with ties milled out that had guides for the rail. It looked good to me and was easy to spike the rail down. Its disadvantage was the limited set of curved roadbed they made.


Yes TruScle that's the brand. My LHS only stocked Atlas, and as a teenager with limited resources, I couldn't muster up the cash for an order...I eventually got some of the milled roadbed only, no ties to run rail through. It was almost two decades later, before I mastered flex track technique.


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## Gramps

DalesParts said:


> Yea yea yea.......yada yada yada....railway was dying 50 years ago too. As long as they are making BIG things, folks will make small versions. Why? Cause it's fun.


Great video to go with a favorite song, thanks for posting.


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## shaygetz

DalesParts said:


> Yea yea yea.......yada yada yada....railway was dying 50 years ago too. As long as they are making BIG things, folks will make small versions. Why? Cause it's fun.


Saw Arlo at the Hurricane Nightclub in Ocean City, MD back in '79.

"I don't waaaant a pickle...
...I just wanna riiiiide my motorcycle..."


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## shaygetz

That video was a perfect example of the difference between the hobby I grew up in and the one today. I saw two Superdomes in that train that reasonably accurate models are available thru Bachmann. If I wanted a close model, I'm just a paint job away. Anymore requires a little cutting and filing, then the paint. Today folks would wait until BLI offered it with all the trimmings. Nothing wrong, just ages apart.


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## Old_Hobo

Actually, Walthers also made super domes, long before BLI did…..much better version than the old Bachmann one, and won’t break your pocket book either…..


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## artfull dodger

I agree that its changing, but for me it remains the same. There hasn't been much of anything that I have bought brand new outside of basic supplies like paint, glue ect. My trains, building kits and so forth have all been from back when build kits was the norm, fine tuning and painting a fine brass model was more common. The new stuff is nice, just not my style. If I am going to spend nearly $300 for a locomotive, it better be brass. Sound and DCC do little to sway me to buy a model. Sound on a very small layout is annoying after the first few min as it never fades away as it does in real life. So why would I spend $$$ on something I will just turn off. The hobby has changed and not always for the best in my opinion. Taking things out of the box and sitting on the layout is not modeling in my book. But the guys doing serious modeling are quickly becoming the minority these days. Thankfully there is plenty out there on the second hand market that is coming out of closets and attics as modelers pass on, and that will keep me busy till my time in this life is over.


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## Old_Hobo

Can we get first dibs on your stuff now….? 🤣


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## artfull dodger

Lol, I am not that old(48) but one never knows when our time is up.


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## Old_Hobo

You’re just a kid….. 😁


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## artfull dodger

Thats what some of my friends tell me, yet I had a couple friends that are my age or just a hair younger pass due to health problems. When your time is up, its up.


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## gunrunnerjohn

artfull dodger said:


> When your time is up, its up.


Can't argue with that!


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