# What gauge wire?



## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

Hi. What gauge wire should I use to wire a couple of accessories to a Lionel ZW transformer? Looking to wire a Lionel No. 145 Gateman and a Lionel No. 252 crossing gate.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Both of those can be wired with almost any size wire, #24 or better. If you're going several hundred feet, I might consider #20 or better. Neither of them take much current.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, I would be concerned about the transformer frying the small gauge wire. The breaker on a ZW is set for 15 amps, and any wire small than 14 gauge is at risk if there is a short.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

servoguy said:


> John, I would be concerned about the transformer frying the small gauge wire. The breaker on a ZW is set for 15 amps, and any wire small than 14 gauge is at risk if there is a short.


What gauge wire do you generally use, servoguy?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You obviously should fuse the feeds when you use fine wire, or for that matter, anytime. There's no reason to use 15 amp rated wire to power an accessory that's going to draw a fraction of an amp! Given the poor quality circuit breakers in PW transformers, having circuit protection for any output of the transformer is just good policy.


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## alman (Oct 22, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You obviously should fuse the feeds when you use fine wire, or for that matter, anytime. There's no reason to use 15 amp rated wire to power an accessory that's going to draw a fraction of an amp! Given the poor quality circuit breakers in PW transformers, having circuit protection for any output of the transformer is just good policy.



Install a fuse for protection !

Always a good safety precaution !


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## alman (Oct 22, 2012)

Sorry , G R J , I guess you beat me to it !


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Uh oh - I think I did something wrong here...

I wired my switches to my transformer with solid 20 (maybe 22, I'm not positive), and my controllers are stranded 18. Am I going to damage something?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Here is a ampacity table:

AWG gauge	Conductor
Diameter Inches	Conductor
Diameter mm	Ohms per 1000 ft.	Ohms per km	Maximum amps for chassis wiring	Maximum amps for 
power transmission	Maximum frequency for
100% skin depth for solid conductor copper	Breaking force Soft Annealed Cu 37000 PSI

WG
gauge Conductor
Diameter
Inches	Conductor
Diameter mm Ohms
per 
1000 ft.	Ohms
per km Maximum
amps for
chassis 
wiring	Maximum
amps for 
power 
transmission 

1	0.2893	7.34822	0.1239	0.406392	211	119	
2	0.2576	6.54304	0.1563	0.512664	181	94	
3	0.2294	5.82676	0.1970	0.64616	158	75	
4	0.2043	5.18922	0.2485	0.81508	135	60	
5	0.1819	4.62026	0.3133	1.027624	118	47	
6	0.1620	4.1148	0.3951	1.295928	101	37	
7	0.1443	3.66522	0.4982	1.634096	89	30	
8	0.1285	3.2639	0.6282	2.060496	73	24	
9	0.1144	2.90576	0.7921	2.598088	64	19	
10	0.1019	2.58826	0.9989	3.276392	55	15	
11	0.0907	2.30378	1.2600	4.1328	47	12	
12	0.0808	2.05232	1.5880	5.20864	41	9.3	
13	0.0720	1.8288	2.0030	6.56984	35	7.4	
14	0.0641	1.62814	2.5250	8.28200	32	5.9	
15	0.0571	1.45034	3.1840	10.44352	28	4.7	
16	0.0508	1.29032	4.0160	13.17248	22	3.7	
17	0.0453	1.15062	5.0640	16.60992	19	2.9	
18	0.0403	1.02362	6.3850	20.9428	16	2.3	
19	0.0359	0.91186	8.0510	26.40728	14	1.8	
20	0.0320	0.8128	10.150	33.292	11	1.5	
21	0.0285	0.7239	12.800	41.984	9	1.2	
22	0.0254	0.64516	16.140	52.9392	7	0.92


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't think the table I posted is good.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Here is a better and more simple table:
12 gauge 20 amps
14 gauge 15 amps
16 gauge 10 amps
18 gauge 7.5 amps
20 gauge 5 amps
22 gauge 4 amps

Here are my best guesses at the breakers for common transformers:

ZW 15 amps
KW 10 amps
Type Z 10 amps
Type V 7 amps
1033 5 amps

The circuit breakers in transformers are designed to protect the transformer, not the wiring. If you use wire that cannot handle the above currents, you should use a separate breaker or fuse for that circuit. You can buy automotive breakers that will automatically reset which are rated for 5 amps. For a ZW, you would need one breaker per circuit, or 4 total.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

And how would I hook them up?

Right now, I'm powering all four switches and both operating tracks from one terminal on the transformer.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Assuming you are using the A terminal of the transformer for power to the center rail, etc., put the breaker in series between the terminal and the wire.

Terminal A wired to the breaker and the breaker wired to the wire that was on terminal A


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Servo Guy beat me to it.

Lionel refers to accessories in power consumption. I believe I saw a chart somewhere (Thors Trains?). 

Power is in Watts. Watts = Volts x Amps


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Power = volts * amps only if the power factor is 1. For inductive or capacitive loads, the current and voltage can both be non-zero, but the power is zero. This gets complicated very quickly as it involves complex numbers.

If you measure the voltage and current going into a transformer when the transformer does not have a load, you will find both the voltage and current are non-zero, but the power is very near zero.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Power = volts * amps only if the power factor is 1. For inductive or capacitive loads, the current and voltage can both be non-zero, but the power is zero. This gets complicated very quickly as it involves complex numbers.


True enough, I forget we're working with AC sometimes.

Resistive only loads (light bulbs) always have a power factor of 1. The complexity arises when one considers that inductive and capacitive loads also have a resistive component and then you have to break out the calculator.

When I posted I was just thinking along the lines of Lionel posting the power consumption in Watts for accessories as opposed to their current draw in amps.

Adds even more confusion when you're trying to determine a mathematical wire and fuse size for an AC train circuit. Empirical values are of more use here to most readers.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Here is a better and more simple table:
> 12 gauge 20 amps
> 14 gauge 15 amps
> 16 gauge 10 amps
> ...


So getting back to my original question, it sounds like to be absolutely safe, if I’m using a postwar ZW transformer (with 15 amp breaker), I would want to go with 14 gauge wire. It’s really only a couple of small accessories that I’m talking about. The No. 145 Gateman and the No.252 crossing gate.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You don't need that heavy wire, but you could use it.

I think 18 or 20 would be OK.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm not an electronic guru. But I always thought that the draw of what you have plugged in ( or in this case the aaccessorie) dictates the Guage of wire. Yes a circuit protection is good advice and can be sized according to wire Guage. But this stuff is low voltage, is it not? I can see a bigger Guage for longer runs to insure the proper voltage gets through. I just haven't run into any problems if it's connected correctly. Granted I'm always present when my layout is on, it does get unplugged when unattended. I can also see a problem with using to heavy a Guage wire as the power would dissipate through the extra material.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

ED, the problem with small wire is that if there is a short it will melt or catch fire. The circuit breaker in the transformer will not protect the wire. Gotta go with physics and electrical engineering here.

Inductors and capacitors have a resistive and reactive component. The current through the reactive component is at 90 degrees to the voltage, and so the product of the voltage and reactive current is zero. The resistive conponent is at 0 degrees to the voltage, and so the power dissipated by the resistive component is just the voltage times the resistive current. However, for toy trains, we don't normally have to worry about all of this.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The voltage does not determine the wire size. It is the maximum current under fault conditions that determines the wire size. If you get a short with 22 gauge wire, and a 15 amp circuit breaker, you will probably have a fire going withing a minute or less.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

I will go with the 14-gauge 2-conductor wire. Thanks servoguy. Now for the hard part....does anyone have any suggestions on where I can buy it?? Can’t seem to find it anywhere.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, I got that but if you put in a smaller breaker with the smaller wire your good. Like a fuse panel in your house the breakers ccorrespond with the wire Guage which is based on projected draw. I get using the bigger wire based on the circuit breaker of the transformer it makes sense. But, I've rarely seen a wire itself fail, without other circumstances. I belive most wires( in the recent past anyway) could handle above there rating. This changed with the increase of copper prices. If you have older wire and compare it to newer wire, the older stuff is a lot thicker( in home wiring as that is what I observed). Failures in wire are due to insecure connections, crimps or bends, lack of insulation, lighting, Powe surges from outside( think high voltage wire on lower voltage, or a leg going out in your electrical panel. . When wired correctly I can't remember ever seeing a problem. This doesn't mean there can'tbe one or ccircumstances can't change.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

You could well use smaller wire than 14 gauge, just fuse it appropriately. 

The point that is being made is that in the case of a short it will take 15 amps of current draw to flip the circuit breaker in the transformer. By the time that happens a smaller gauge wire may well melt.

If each circuit is fused off the transformer a fuse can be selected that will blow appropriately for the wire size of that circuit (at say 5 amps instead of 15) less current will flow and less damage can occur.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

joe0412 said:


> I will go with the 14-gauge 2-conductor wire. Thanks servoguy. Now for the hard part....does anyone have any suggestions on where I can buy it?? Can’t seem to find it anywhere.



They sell 14 gauge speaker wire -2 conductor. Auto parts stores usually have a pretty good selection of wire.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

rkenney said:


> They sell 14 gauge speaker wire -2 conductor. Auto parts stores usually have a pretty good selection of wire.


Radio Shack has it in two color red/black


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Bob, here is another quote for you:

"I don't care who votes, I only care who counts the votes." Joe Stalin


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Bob, here is another quote for you:
> 
> "I don't care who votes, I only care who counts the votes." Joe Stalin


I am far to direct to understand subtlety. I don't get it. Seems fairly ambiguous, depending heavily on the speaker and the context, neither of which are apparent here.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Do you know who Joe Stalin was?


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Do you know who Joe Stalin was?


Sure I know who Joseph Stalin was. I don't know who servoguy is.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

What Stalin is telling you is that there was never an honest election when he was dictator. The guys counting the votes made the result come out as directed by their superiors. Same as the vote counters do in this country.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Rkenney, he's referencing your quote in that they were both harsh leaders and that they both made ( or thought that) up there peice of history. One rewrote it while the other bought it. If you don't know who servoguy is I would say a little of both


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

mnp13 said:


> Radio Shack has it in two color red/black


You would do well to avoid Radio Shack. They are overpriced for one, and most of their components behave like seconds (failure prone.) 

Your much better off buying stuff online these days. Just got to watch the shipping.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

rkenney said:


> You would do well to avoid Radio Shack. They are overpriced for one, and most of their components behave like seconds (failure prone.)
> 
> Your much better off buying stuff online these days. Just got to watch the shipping.


I hear ya’. I just didn’t want to wait to have it shipped. Wanted to get these accessories up and running this weekend. Radio Shack has the 14 AWG, 2-conductor wire, but only online.....and it’s $32 for 25-ft.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

Of course, do I really need to buy dual-stranded 14/2 wire? Can’t I just buy 14 gauge single-stranded wire in two different colors? Or does that get complicated figuring out which accessories all of the wires connect to?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> ED, the problem with small wire is that if there is a short it will melt or catch fire. The circuit breaker in the transformer will not protect the wire. Gotta go with physics and electrical engineering here.
> 
> Inductors and capacitors have a resistive and reactive component. The current through the reactive component is at 90 degrees to the voltage, and so the product of the voltage and reactive current is zero. The resistive conponent is at 0 degrees to the voltage, and so the power dissipated by the resistive component is just the voltage times the resistive current. However, for toy trains, we don't normally have to worry about all of this.


Well just last week someone was saying that you could power the track with 22 gauge and I said I use 14 gauge for my main power and he said it was overkill?
I acquired a big roll of 14 gauge years ago, someone was going to toss it, that is why I went with 14.
But for my lights, and windmill I used old telephone wire, I guess that is 22 gauge?
The oil derrick I used a little heavier gauge 18.

I don't walk away and leave my stuff plugged in, I am always there when things are on.
And everything is turned off when I leave.

But....I am not an electrical guru..knock on wood I did not burn my house down yet.

I am probably wrong Joe but I don't see why you can't just buy 2 different colored 14 gauge spools? :dunno:

You have not said how large of a table you have did you?
Just curious? :smokin:


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

big ed said:


> Well just last week someone was saying that you could power the track with 22 gauge and I said I use 14 gauge for my main power and he said it was overkill?
> I acquired a big roll of 14 gauge years ago, someone was going to toss it, that is why I went with 14.
> But for my lights, and windmill I used old telephone wire, I guess that is 22 gauge?
> The oil derrick I used a little heavier gauge 18.
> ...


Ed: It’s set up on my dining table (with the leafs in), so it’s not very large. It’s just a big oval with 10 straight pieces of track on the sides and 8 curved pieces (four on each end).


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

joe0412 said:


> Ed: It’s set up on my dining table (with the leafs in), so it’s not very large. It’s just a big oval with 10 straight pieces of track on the sides and 8 curved pieces (four on each end).


How are you going to eat? 
Do you plan on building something else somewhere?

If so you might want to plan on using extra long wire to accommodate it a larger layout in the future.

Then you won't be wasting wire then.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

never use our dining room anyway, except for Thanksgiving and Christmas. We eat at our kitchen counter or kitchen table.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Joe, it sounds like you finally found a good use for a dining room table


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

For all you guys that have used small wire, add a fuse or a breaker to protect the wire. That is easier than changing the wire.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't see why you would need 2 different colored wires either.
It would be more convenient with the different colors for trouble shooting later on.

Even then you could add a little dab of paint on the ground wire or the hot wire (red?) at each end to Id the difference.

But that is the way I do things. 
And like I said I had the huge roll of 14 gauge (green) wire. For free. :smilie_daumenpos:
Most all of my wire is free, I have tons of old telephone wire that I just have to strip the casing to get at all the wires inside, they are all different colors. Under my table it looks like a rainbow of wires.  
But all my 14 gauge is green, I use my old (young) lady's old nail polish to put a speck of red on the hot wires. The others I know are grounds.

Some I know won't agree with my wiring, but it works for me. :smokin:

A larger table in the future?:dunno:
Or will this be like a holiday thing?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Using different colored wire is a good idea as it makes trouble shooting easier. Marking the wires is also a good idea.

I graduated from engineering school in 1963 with a BS math. In 1965 I got an MSEE. I have 50 years of experience doing engineering.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Using different colored wire is a good idea as it makes trouble shooting easier. Marking the wires is also a good idea.
> 
> I graduated from engineering school in 1963 with a BS math. In 1965 I got an MSEE. I have 50 years of experience doing engineering.


I agreed with the easier part.
With all the telephone wire I use, I use the solid colors for ground and the striped ones for hots. But it still looks like a rainbow. But I also have them set up on terminal blocks one for grounds and one for hot.

Reminds me of an old friend from school.
He was color blind, not totally but he could not distinguish between different shades of colors. 
He turned out to be an excellent electrician.
And a good one at that, I don't know how though. 

Servoguy did you read that one post where it was recommended to use 22 gauge for the main powering of the track?
I always recommend at least 18 gauge and add that mine is 14 gauge because that is what I had on hand for free.
Would you say 22 gauge would be fine for that purpose?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The resistance of 22 gauge wire is higher than the resistance of the track if the track joints are good. So what does adding 22 gauge wire get you? Nothing. For a large layout, use 14 gauge and solder or wire nut short jumpers to the lockons. Or use a terminal strip.

I think adding a 5 amp circuit breaker is a good idea to protect the wiring of passenger cars, etc.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

servoguy said:


> The resistance of 22 gauge wire is higher than the resistance of the track if the track joints are good. So what does adding 22 gauge wire get you? Nothing. For a large layout, use 14 gauge and solder or wire nut short jumpers to the lockons. Or use a terminal strip.
> 
> I think adding a 5 amp circuit breaker is a good idea to protect the wiring of passenger cars, etc.


Okay. I just went out and bought 14 gauge wire in red and white. I couldn't find two-conductor wire stranded together. So I just bought the two different colors separately. When I look at the package it says that it is for low-voltage applications. I assume that this is fine, correct?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Low voltage is anything 48 volts or lower according to the NEC


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> Joe, it sounds like you finally found a good use for a dining room table


Scandalous!  Dining room tables are for Sunday Dinner!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm still confused why folks steered you to such heavy wire for accessories! As long as you provide proper circuit protection, you can use much lighter wire, you're not wiring a 1500 watt space heater here! :dunno:


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, the key phrase is "As long as you provide proper circuit protection." Lionel does not give good information about protecting the wiring or the accessories and most guys and girls don't know how to design a proper circuit with protection.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, rather than having them use #14 wire for an accessory that draws less than an amp, perhaps we should instruct them in the correct method, isn't that why we're here? 

Have you priced #14 wire lately when compared to #22?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I use the 14 gauge just for the track, I said it a hundred times I have a big roll I got for free.:thumbsup: 
Overkill I was told, for the track I could have used 22 someone said. Though that sounds kind of thin to me?
I use all old telephone wire for the lights and some of the accessories whatever size that is, 22?

Some like the oil derrick and coal tower, I use 18 gauge which I probably don't have to but had it laying around. And I figured it would be better, right I don't know. Most all of my wire I got for free one way or the other. The 14 gauge was like a 500 foot roll and I just happened to be standing around when someone was cleaning out their garage.:smilie_daumenpos:

I think the only wire I ever purchased was for the switch controllers when I redid them.
The flat Conductor kind of Wire. Even then I got both 4 wire and the 3 wire in those. Seemed like the right thing to do as long as I was ordering the other. If I need it I now have it.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, rather than having them use #14 wire for an accessory that draws less than an amp, perhaps we should instruct them in the correct method, isn't that why we're here?
> 
> Have you priced #14 wire lately when compared to #22?


GRJ, well.....I couldn’t agree more with you. The 14 gauge wire is so thick that it’s difficult to wrap around the terminal posts on the ZW. I’m sorry I bought it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Ed, I think your telephone wire is 26 gauge.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Ed, I think your telephone wire is 26 gauge.


OK I didn't know.

Joe they sell these remarkable things, beats trying to wrap the wire around.


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## joe0412 (Dec 6, 2013)

big ed said:


> OK I didn't know.
> 
> Joe they sell these remarkable things, beats trying to wrap the wire around.
> 
> ...


Ed: I like it! What size would I need for the ZW terminals? Any idea?


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

Just my $.02.

P (power, watts)= I (amps) x E (voltage)
E (volts) = I (amps) x R (resistance)
On small stuff I compute as if the circuit was DC.

The size of good wire should carry the voltage easily.
Most wire will carry well over 100 volts without a problem.
I check the wire to make sure but that is about all.
Wire size is computed from the TOTAL amperage required for that circuit.
If you are hooking up 10 lights and each light has a .01 amp requirement the the total amperage for the wire should exceed .1 amp the voltage will remain the same. (Parallel circuits only.)
Normally or for safety a fuse with less amperage of the wire but slightly more than the load should be installed in series this the circuit.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I used speaker wire, cheap and paired together for accessories, lights, switches etc. It works and I didn't build in circuit protection.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

sjm, what is the wire gauge and which transformer are you using?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I know! It's labeled as 18-16 which I take to mean 18 Guage. I have larger feeds to bus bars around my table, from the bus bars to each individual accessorie. My switches are the same way. The lights are jumped from light to light, max of three jumps. It was easy enough to run individual wiring from the busses. I do have larger Guage wire feeding the track, I did install fuses on them. I figure the draw of the accessories won't be more then the wires can handle. Some if the stuff is on bigger Guage wire, it was just getting too expensive. Ed, I did use those crimp ends, made life simple. You just need to have a good crimping tool. ( I just used the ends nit the wire joiners.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Don't think I've seen it mentioned here, but for what it is worth the original wire that Lionel sold as hookup wire (post war) was #18. 

Now I know we live in a very different electrical environment today. Grounded, polarized outlets;GFCI; AFCI; hell, code even requires child-proof outlets now (whch probably deters many of us from playing), but I don't believe I've ever seen a headline that read, "Man Burns Down House Lionel Trains to Blame."

Be careful, enjoy. When in doubt fuse.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

big ed said:


> OK I didn't know.
> 
> Joe they sell these remarkable things, beats trying to wrap the wire around.
> 
> ...


I use those, and solder them to the ends of the wires. Makes hookups a LOT easier!


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## Ohio027 (Dec 29, 2012)

For what's it's worth, I just finished final wiring on my layout. Two lockons on the main loop and one each on the secondary and inner loops. I wired all of them with 16 gauge wire to an MTH terminal block so I only had to run two wires to the transformer. Works like a charm now--trains run smoothly with no loss of power on any section. Only trouble I had was getting the wire into the lockon connectors (it's multi-strand). I used two colors of wire. No fuses or circuit breakers at this point, and since I don't leave the transformer plugged in when I'm not running, I think I'm good.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

What is the maximum current of your transformer?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The fuses or circuit breakers are to protect the equipment, not the transformer!


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Ok. You have made me sufficiently concerned. Where do I get the fuses/ breakers to put between the transformer and my accessories?

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, could you find one online so I know what to get???

Thanks!!!!


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Ohio027 said:


> Only trouble I had was getting the wire into the lockon connectors (it's multi-strand).


Yes sticking the stranded wire in the accessories fahnstock (sp?) clips is a real pain. Seems like most on the forum can solder, so the cure is to 'tin' the stripped wire end to go into the clip easier.



Ohio027 said:


> I don't leave the transformer plugged in when I'm not running, I think I'm good.


I don't leave anything powered up when it's unattended. I use a power strip under the table.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Here is a list of 5 amp breakers from Digikey

http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

Go to this page to change the specs for the breaker:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/circuit-protection/circuit-breakers/655427

After you change the specs, hit the apply filter key and then look at the table of selected breakers.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

mnp13 said:


> Ok. You have made me sufficiently concerned. Where do I get the fuses/ breakers to put between the transformer and my accessories?
> 
> I'm not sure what I'm looking for, could you find one online so I know what to get???
> 
> Thanks!!!!


ATC fuses at auto parts stores, connected inline with two female spade connectors.



















Or if budget permits google fuse block and buy one with enough apaces for all the circuits you need to fuse.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The circuit breakers in Lionel transformers only protect the transformer, not the load. The 15 amp circuit breaker in a ZW is not going to protect the wiring or the loco or any accessory. Takes a smaller breaker and for electronics, a transient voltage suppressor.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

I had to look it up, the correct spelling is fahnestock clip.

Anyway, wikipedia also had this picture of alot of designs I'd never seen.

Ever run across any of thes?


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

I just learned to put pictures in a post. must still be doing something wrong. How do you get larger pictures?


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

rkenney said:


> I just learned to put pictures in a post. must still be doing something wrong. How do you get larger pictures?


Never mind, just took a little experimentation.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I had no clue what they were called, you could have spelled it anyway you wanted! Don'tknow about the picture thing.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

sjm9911 said:


> I had no clue what they were called, you could have spelled it anyway you wanted! Don'tknow about the picture thing.


Look at figure 8, you could make that with a paperclip. Either somebody did or maybe paperclips weren't invented yet.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

While we are on the subject, what is a BNC connector? I have used these things since the mid '60s, but didn't learn what BNC meant until about 1985.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

*BNC*

National Bank of Canada

or 

*BNC connecter* (in electronics)

Bayonet and somebody's name beginning with N-C that I can never remember.

You know if they'd of had an acronym for Fahnestock clips that's all I would have remembered.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

,BNC is bayonet notch connector


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

servoguy said:


> ,BNC is bayonet notch connector


So, we're just showin' off now, huh? Aren't we a little old for that?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Your both too old for that, and I'm too young, ( I keep lying to my self anyway) so it pains me to say this. '' play nice now children''


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I am just bringing some obscure engineering information into the discussion.


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## fitz04 (Jun 12, 2013)

well i enjoyed reading the whole discussion


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

BNC connector
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The BNC connector (Bayonet Neill–Concelman) is a miniature quick connect/disconnect RF connector used for coaxial cable. It features two bayonet lugs on the female connector; mating is achieved with only a quarter turn of the coupling nut. BNCs are ideally suited for cable termination for miniature-to-subminiature coaxial cable (e.g., RG-58, 59, to RG-179, RG-316). They are used with radio, television, and other radio-frequency electronic equipment, test instruments, video signals, and were once a popular connector for 10BASE2 computer networks. BNC connectors are made to match the characteristic impedance of cable at either 50 ohms or 75 ohms. It is usually applied for frequencies below 4 GHz[1] and voltages below 500 Volts.[2] Similar connectors using the bayonet connection principle exist, and a threaded connector is also available. United States military standard MIL-PRF-39012 entitled Connectors, Coaxial, Radio Frequency, General Specification for (formerly MIL-C-39012) covers the general requirements and tests for radio frequency connectors used with flexible cables and certain other types of coaxial transmission lines in military, aerospace, and spaceflight applications.[3]


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

How in the world did a discussion on wire gauge morph into BNC connectors?


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> How in the world did a discussion on wire gauge morph into BNC connectors?


Older people often randomly associate vague incoherent memories. Remembering their life, not as it was, but as they wished it were. :laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That explains it.


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