# Crayola Crayon Car



## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Take one hopper car. Add an insert that will hold crayons vertically.
Paint green and sell for Christmas. Include a box of crayons.

Assembled in USA.

Attractive and great for the kids. Bet lots were sold, whatta you think. “Dad, look what Santa brought us.”


Uh, Mr President, the holes in the top are too small for the Crayola crayons to fit. They are being returned because we couldn’t figure out how to drill the correct size hole.

Guys if Lionel can’t handle a crayon car, why are they bothering to put out a catalog?

If you want to know more, take a look at the thread on OGR. It would be nice to say, “No way.”

Given recent events, what else is new.


Correction. Other now saying some parts probably from China and assembled in USA. Do parts come in from China and nobody checks to see if the crayons fit or did the company adopt the cowboy cry of, “Move em out?”


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Incredible! I was very tempted to get one of these cars at the Oaks show last weekend. Glad that I didn't.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Oh Wow. This is unbelievable.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

You can't make this stuff up!


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Hey, good news, my pre-orders from last year are at my dealer.:smilie_auslachen:


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

If Lionel can screw this up pretty much sums up the state of their quality control. Really past time for a compete house cleaning.

Bill


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

They should hire Scott Mann as a consultant.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They should hire Barney Fife as a consultant!  How much worse could it get?


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> They should hire Barney Fife as a consultant!  How much worse could it get?


Solid point


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## zeames1 (Oct 3, 2016)

Guess their China QA team will need to relocate back to the USA.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

It's hard to imagine this is the same company that just released the VL Niagara with all its bells and whistles and minimal reported issues.

Now we can't put Crayons in a hole??


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

_"...because we couldn’t figure out how to drill the correct size hole."_
Not that you should have to do this, but, what is so difficult about that?

After reading the entire thread, it appears that some crayons fit others don't and one guy shows that it is a variance in the crayons causing the problem.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The skinny crayons fit, but the standard size you buy everywhere doesn't fit.


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The skinny crayons fit, but the standard size you buy everywhere doesn't fit.


I see that you didn't read the entire thread. Look again. Page three by "ESCAPEROCKS".


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Folks, I'm just catching up with this thread now. THIS is even worse than Lionel asking OGR to remove all early photos of products in the new Lionel catalog.

Look... whether there are variations in the crayon manufacturing process or not... THAT's part of what needed to be planned for in the design of that crayon car. Un-Freakin'-Believable that Lionel can be so incompetent these days. They just don't know how to COMMUNICATE with anybody!!! 

If the implications of this incompetence weren't so real, we'd all be crying from laughter right now. I must admit... as I read the thread over on the other place, I was laughing quite hard while shaking my head in disbelief. But any tears were real when I realized there's nobody but a bunch of empty suits running the show there these days. And they probably won't even be able to turn the lights off correctly when it's time to close up shop. 

*AND YOU WONDER WHY I'M NOT PLANNING TO PRE-ORDERING ANYTHING FROM THE NEW CATALOG????* 

David


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

The car itself is a big Crayola Logo. Crayola must have sanctioned it's use. Thus part of the blame lies with Crayola. No one at Crayola thought to impart any technical expertise? The Crayola crayon's roots can be traced back to 1903. Surely they know their own product by now. 

_"Crayola, LLC claims the Crayola brand has 99% name recognition in U.S. consumer households, and says its products are marketed and sold in over 80 countries."_ From Wikipedia.

A tiny ding in a stalwart American brand. It's like a communicable disease.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Big Jim said:


> I see that you didn't read the entire thread. Look again. Page three by "ESCAPEROCKS".


I honestly don't care enough to spend any more time worrying about it. I won't be buying one, even if the crayons did fit.


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

that thread has been closed over there, but did read most replies as to crayon difference in thickness a manufacturing tolerance not needing to be exact I am assuming this. on flip side lionel engineers should have allowed for that and erred on a bigger hole just common sense 101.
nuff said time for some popcorn!
we should sell raffle tickets on the lionel 2019 as delivered goof ups.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Oh come on! The variance in crayon diameters is the excuse. Anyway sensible would allow for that. Geez. 

Anyway, I have a drill press and 110 different size bits. I'm sure if I get a flawed one i can fix it. Not difficult to make a small hole larger.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

In the absences of precision drilling capabilities buy another box of Crayola crayons. On the other thread, someone bought a couple boxes and was able to fill up the car.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Millstonemike said:


> In the absences of precision drilling capabilities buy another box of Crayola crayons. On the other thread, someone bought a couple boxes and was able to fill up the car.


I'm sorry, Mike. But why does the consumer need to mitigate Lionel's failure to do something right? First of all, as I understand things (since I have no interest in this car, I didn't buy one), Lionel PROVIDED a box of crayons with the car. So now upon finding their Lionel-provided crayons don't work with Lionel's own car, the buyer is expected to dash off to Michaels or whatever local arts & crafts store sells kid's crayons and test each box to see if the crayons fit in his Lionel car???  Are you kidding me???

We cover up enough of Lionel's screw-ups lately. I just paid over $40 to ship 8 heavyweight passenger cars back to a dealer because of Lionel's inability to closely monitor their factory's quality. There really does come a point when we need to call things out for what they are -- and not apologize to anybody for doing that. Let's stop placating an inept group of managers who are clueless as to what they're doing running a model train company. Lord knows we're WAY past that point these days, and we should have stopped settling for less years ago.

David


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> I'm sorry, Mike. But why does the consumer need to mitigate Lionel's failure to do something right? ...
> 
> We cover up enough of Lionel's screw-ups lately. I just paid over $40 to ship 8 heavyweight passenger cars back to a dealer because of Lionel's inability to closely monitor their factory's quality. ...
> David


On the big money, upscale failures ... your absolutely right.

On the lesser stuff, sometimes it's just easier to fix it for $5 and go on railroading.

And my comment arose from posts contemplating enlarging the holes. I thought a different batch of crayons would be an easier option.


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## biglionelguy (Nov 11, 2015)

I think the beginner stuff failures would have a much bigger impact on the bottom line since more people buy that stuff to go with their newly bought train sets. If your new to the Lionel train and you buy stuff that's junk or poorly designed, you'll move on to some other less expensive hobby it relatively short order. Us train enthusiasts, it took our dumb a**es 3 years to get sick of the failures


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I have read a lot of comments on various social media sites about first time Lionel buyers of a starter set purchased for the kids that last 2 to 3 weeks then bites the dust. These are the folks that most likely won't purchase anymore expensive Lionel toys for the kids.

Bill


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

seayakbill said:


> I have read a lot of comments on various social media sites about first time Lionel buyers of a starter set purchased for the kids that last 2 to 3 weeks then bites the dust. These are the folks that most likely won't purchase anymore expensive Lionel toys for the kids.
> 
> Bill


Bill - From what you've read what was the biggest complaint??

If you ask me it's somewhat of a double edge sword for Lionel. Pack more features in the starter set to attract more users, but potentially have more problems crop up.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Jeff T said:


> ...If you ask me it's somewhat of a double edge sword for Lionel. Pack more features in the starter set to attract more users, but potentially have more problems crop up.


Jeff, including more features in their starter sets never created problems for MTH. IMO, quality is quality regardless of how feature packed or simplistic it is while junk is junk regardless of how feature packed or simplistic it is.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

ogaugeguy said:


> Jeff, including more features in their starter sets never created problems for MTH. IMO, quality is quality regardless of how feature packed or not it is while junk is junk regardless of how featureless or simplistic it is.


I hear you. Where MTH will give you an engine similar to the RK line, L has a tendency to give you the bottom of the parts bin.

Still curious to see what Bill read.


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## biglionelguy (Nov 11, 2015)

MTH sets are railking items with track and a transformer and have all the same features and electronics and all their other stuff. Not to mention MTH sets have themes and paint schemes kids to day can identify with. SD70ACe sets with current rolling stock and road names. Modern Amtrak equipment. You know, the stuff the kids see and can make a connection to. Scouts and Pennsy Flyers with the wheels falling off just don't cut it.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Folks, just take a look at Lionel's Facebook page. It's downright sad to see so many negative responses about starter sets failing within minutes of use (especially on Christmas Day), or products with missing parts, or customer service that never responds, etc....

And all of these comments are on Facebook for the world to see. I just looked this morning, and these are the same type of comments I saw 3 or 4 years ago. So that tells us nothing is changing. Even more concerning is the same mentality has filtered its way into the high-end line where serious model train enthusiasts like to live. The company just doesn't seem to care, and they produce whatever they can at whatever random quality level comes out of the factory... then manage the problems to keep things at bay. Sadly, it's an approach that seems to work for them -- otherwise they wouldn't keep doing it. 

David


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## biglionelguy (Nov 11, 2015)

Hi David,!!!! Miss you at the shipping schedule postings over there. I for one, am voting with my wallet and just not buying anything from them


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Sadly, it's an approach that seems to work for them -- otherwise they wouldn't keep doing it.


David, it will only work for a limited amount of time. I'm sure that many first time buyers are immediately turned off by the lack of quality and all the issues. When they run out of new fools, they're going to have to up their game or pack it in. You can't ride your name recognition forever, that never works in the long run. At some point, people are going to equate the Lionel name with junk. I'm already there.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

It might be pipe dreaming, everyone, but can you imagine what the future might hold for 3 Rail if Lionel went belly up and MTH acquired them? Don't know whether Mike would want to take on Lionel's grief and problems, except for the fact that he might see it as sweet revenge for his earlier lawsuit loss to Lionel, but one could only dream of an MTH acquisition of Lionel's intellectual property and patents. Sine MTH Premiere engines are already set to run in either conventional, DCS, and DCC modes, just picture TMCC and Legacy added to that mix. Perhaps 3 Rail would be close to eventually having a universal system such as HO already has, One can only dream and imagine what could be.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

I fear that would be the end of TMCC/Legacy as we know it today. I hope that never happens!


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Big Jim said:


> I fear that would be the end of TMCC/Legacy as we know it today. I hope that never happens!


Following Lionel's woes I don't see a long term future for TMCC. It's obvious their high-end products are reeling from product issues. And their entry level stuff doesn't seem much better. 

Lionel exhibits all the attributes of a company going down for the count. If (when) that happens, the only support may come from small outfits capitalizing on the opportunity to support TMCC. And how long will that last. No longer are the parts simplistic that they can be easily duplicated/re-manufactured as some company's do for older Lionel and Marx trains.

A universal standard (as in HO) may be the only way to support the high end features in the long run. And that standard won't be TMCC.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> David, it will only work for a limited amount of time. I'm sure that many first time buyers are immediately turned off by the lack of quality and all the issues. When they run out of new fools, they're going to have to up their game or pack it in. You can't ride your name recognition forever, that never works in the long run. At some point, people are going to equate the Lionel name with junk. I'm already there.


I agree with you 1,000% John! I made no bones about calling Lionel's latest 18" heavyweights "junk" when I needed to return all FOUR 2-packs of the Reading, Blue Mountain & Northern passenger cars. Fortunately, I was able to source an alternative train through MTH now and a couple of additional cars from Atlas-O (which I might not see until 2Q or 3Q 2019). That's the beauty of having multiple suppliers in the marketplace.

David


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Just a thought to ponder for those who are justifiably fleeing Lionel's sinking QC ship for MTH's higher level of QC - would you still be in MTH's corner singing their praise if they would ever seize an opportunity to buy out Lionel, and then do what would likely be the next natural step for them - to abandon TMCC/Legacy in favor of their own DCS operating system?


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Hey, speaking of MTH, last Thursday I took delivery a brand new MTH E8. It was inoperable right out of the box. It was the last one my dealer had so he couldn't do an exchange. He was willing to do a RFR but I just bought the matching cars so I really want it fixed. I called MTH for an RA and sent it to them. I thought that was ironic since that hasn't happened to me with a Lionel engine (yet). However, three Lionel engines arriving Wednesday. Deep breaths.


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

ogaugeguy said:


> Just a thought to ponder for those who are justifiably fleeing Lionel's sinking QC ship for MTH's higher level of QC - would you still be in MTH's corner singing their praise if they would ever seize an opportunity to buy out Lionel, and then do what would likely be the next natural step for them - to abandon TMCC/Legacy *in favor of their own DCS operating system?*


NOPE!


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Big Jim said:


> NOPE!


I agree.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

ogaugeguy said:


> Just a thought to ponder for those who are justifiably fleeing Lionel's sinking QC ship for MTH's higher level of QC - would you still be in MTH's corner singing their praise if they would ever seize an opportunity to buy out Lionel, and then do what would likely be the next natural step for them - to abandon TMCC/Legacy in favor of their own DCS operating system?


Absolutely. Sort of there already with my layout. I think I added two Lionel locos in 2019, and about fifteen MTH. As far as I can determine, I bought about forty pieces of MTH rolling stock, and no Lionel at all. 

Just responding to price, quality, and product appeal.


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

> Originally Posted by ogaugeguy View Post
> Just a thought to ponder for those who are justifiably fleeing Lionel's sinking QC ship for MTH's higher level of QC - would you still be in MTH's corner singing their praise if they would ever seize an opportunity to buy out Lionel, and then do what would likely be the next natural step for them - to abandon TMCC/Legacy in favor of *their own DCS operating system*?


NOPE!

Let me clarify my "NOPE" with the fact that I have absolutely, positively no desire to have anything to do with DCS in any way shape or form and the problems that come with the system, including price. Hence the bold underline. (I do own two "Duchess" class locos that will be operated in conventional only.) Of the two other MTH locos that I have, both have been TMCC'ed.

I do like some of the MTH rolling stock. I have no problem buying items that I need or find interesting.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Jim, I think that you and Brian (PTC) are of the same mind.  I know a number of people that have gutted DCS stuff and installed TMCC.


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

John,
Other than the two locos that I have already converted to TMCC, there is nothing else that MTH has already made that I need or even want. 

It would surprise me if the locos that I would like have (no one has made them yet) are ever made in my lifetime.


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## Ottawa_Marc (Jan 22, 2019)

While this shouldn't have happened, after an investigation maybe they will offer replacement parts, (if it was their fault). I understand that they painted some engines incorrectly a couple of years ago and they offered new shells.


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