# Help with Dad's Big Boy



## GruntUltra (Jun 22, 2011)

Hello folks - My father has recently passed all of his HO scale goodies to me. He's 70 and wanted to get a few things moved out of his house that he knows he will no longer be using. In the 5 boxes of trains & gear was the old Rivarossi 4-8-8-4 Big Boy (#4005) that was kept on a shelf, well out of this clumsy 9-year old's hands - some 30 years ago. I never saw it run, and Dad was understandably concerned to the point that he wouldn't let me or my brothers get our hands on it!
But now that I have it - I've tested it to see that it *will* run, but only intermittentaly for now. My bigger problem at the moment is that it has no trailing truck, truck screw, or truck spring. Searching eBay and googleing the part numbers have turned up nothing (P-245-052, P-160-009, P-160-041 respectively).
So my question is - will other Rivarossi '-4' trailing trucks work? Like from a Challenger?
I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm over having these trains, because there is very little money available to spend, and also very little space to put a layout together for now. But the joy of holding a piece of my childhood - during a time that I spent countless hours with Dad working & playing on the set is tough to contain! Any help is appreciated - thank you!


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## Nolackofwanna (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi
The HO Big Boy is still listed in the Rivarossi Catalogue as carried by Walthers Stock No.635-HR2098 & 635-HR2099. Perhaps you can contact them to see if parts are available at this link: http://www.walthers.com/exec/mailcustserv
Perhaps parts from the later releases could be adapted to your early unit. I know that Athearn as an example is real good with parts, perhaps Walthers is the same but I've never tried as yet. Its worth a shot....


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I own the same one, it took a good deal of searching to find missing parts. Parts for that will be hard to find but they are out there. They were re-engineered several times over the years so not just any part will do.

Check with these guys >>> http://yardbirdtrains.com/index.htm

Milne...


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## GruntUltra (Jun 22, 2011)

Thank you gentlemen. I checked with both sites today but neither had anything in stock at this time - but both said the same thing; parts are out there, I just have to be patient and keep checking. Shaygetz - your engine is amazing, and it gives me a better idea as to the shape of the trailing truck for reference (compared to the Rivarossi parts sheet). 
On a good note, I bought some Hob-E-Lube premium oil and managed to get the engine running like NEVER before! The forward end of the rear drivers needs to be sprung to consistantly make contact with the track, or it will stop occasionally. But that's a minor issue when compared to the length of time it's sat dormant.
Thanks again!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

OOOOOOO! That's beautiful Shay. Now we need a picture of yours GruntUltra. 
What a sight it must have been to see one of those going down the track. Had to be awesome. Pete


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Here's a close up for you Grunt...










Thank you for the kind word. I took me almost a year and a half to put it right, knowing eyes would be able to tell to 30 year difference in models between the tender (a late 90s offering) and the loco (from the early 1970s going by the cab number). While I really am tickled about the weathering, it wasn't originally planned to be that way as I prefer to keep my Rivarossi clean.

_"The forward end of the rear drivers needs to be sprung to consistantly make contact with the track, or it will stop occasionally."_

This troubles me...when I got my Rivarossi Cab-forward, it too had a tippy toe rear engine. After messing with it, I traced the problem to a warped boiler weight. Rivarossi designed the gear train and engine mounts into the boiler weight so that all alignment depends on that being straight, much like the foundation of a house. 

Unfortunately, they used a bad batch of zinc in their models made in the 60s and early 70s that would crystallize and warp, pulling the drive train out of alignment. Because of their regular re-engineering of the models, a matching frame could not be found without great hassle. The way I fixed mine was to beak it (_yes, break it_) into 3 pieces, then carefully glue them together, properly aligned, with JB Weld. It then took some careful fiddling with a file to get it all aligned right...about 3 hours work. I do hope that this is not what is waiting for you under the boiler.


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## GruntUltra (Jun 22, 2011)

The details of the locomotive (and the entire layout) are just amazing! I wish I had the space and the patience you have, shaygetz!
Here are a couple quick pics of the old 4005. The dust you see on the top was accumulated between 1969 & 1982. Since then, this machine has been in storage. As you can see - I'm missing the trailing truck, tender attach bar & cable, coupler, & probably a few more pieces. There is damage to the upper shell on either side, middle of the engine just between the pairs of drive-wheel trucks. The engineer's cockpit (??? I can't come up with a better term) overhang is also broken. I was 6 years old in 1978 when dad started building a new layout in the garage (which is all long gone now). I recall holding the Big Boy a couple times and being overwhelmed at the weight of the engine and fragility of the drivetrain. I know it took a fall from the layout once, probably 3 to 4 feet onto the garage floor, at which point it went up on the shelf as a non-functioning showpiece that became off-limits to us boys.
Although I lubed most of the moving parts last night, I don't have a tool small enough to unscrew the tiny hex-head bolt just behind the bell. I have seen upper shells available on eBay that I could use to fix that whole problem, but I'm still stuck on the trailing truck. The engine will run on the track pretty smooth now, but I'm sure there is still room for improvement.
This is quite a change for me - because I've spent the last 10 years repairing pc's and laptops. There is still a sense of the delicate-ness that I can carry over, but I lack the experience and knowledge of all the details in the mechanics.
For the time-being, the best I can do for a layout is a 4'x6' sheet, and all of my track is cheap Tyco stuff I received with kits as a kid. I'd prefer to get some good Atlas pieces to assemble it, but even this will be a slow process due to funds for now.
I really appreciate the images and I'm stealing a few minutes at work each day to search for these (or similar looking) parts. I know that I could just buy another engine and be done with it - but I want to fix up dad's. And I can't bear the thought of cannabalizing a 'good' engine to fix mine either! So there's my situation for now - thank you all for the input and let me know if you come across anything!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I have to smile at this...

..._(and the entire layout)_...

THIS...is the entire layout...and it's not even finished




























The Big Boy is just shy of half the layout...

The first pic was taken on a 18" x 12" diorama I built...


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## GruntUltra (Jun 22, 2011)

Haha! OK, the 1st photos are a bit misleading! But that looks like the right way to do it, a little bit at a time!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Way to go GruntUltra. WE need more people around who have some feeling for traditions and some sentiment and respect for our fathers. We sure could use some people that felt that way about our country too.
Look at it like your starting off with the one engine that most of us wait years to acquire. You keep looking and you'll get everything you need to get that fine engine going again.
Shaygetz I am hereby pronouncing you my hero. Your diorama is outstanding and I wonder if you have designed it to fit to your regular layout? Really nice work my friend. Pete


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks guys...it is actually a layout, an Inglenook shunting puzzle to be more precise. You run switching timed challenges on it pulling and sorting cars by drawing them at random from a bag of marked chips. All you need is a good running switcher and a few short cars, a run can take 1-2 hours. 

Long ago I decided against a large layout for the time it takes away from family. These dioramas whet the appetite without taking too much time to do them. My next is a scrap yard....


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Thanks Shay, now I have another time killer 

Those Inglenook puzzles look entertaining and I think I'll build a few and run them in TrainPlayer. I wont be able to count the moves, but I can run a timer. Should be hours of fun


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## Cab1 (Jul 26, 2009)

I've got an Athearn Big Boy with DCC & sound. It's a great engine that really pulls and the sound is fantastic. How does it compare to the older Rivarossi?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Hmmmm...like a Ruth's Crist steak to C rations...... One owns them for nostalgic reasons, not running qualities....


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## searstractorfan (May 30, 2011)

I just bought an old rivarossi big boy today and WOW does she run sweet.....havent hooked a big load to it yet but she will crawl....she runs better then my Broadway Limited BLue line Class A 1218 that is NEW!


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## searstractorfan (May 30, 2011)

Hey I just ran across these on ebay, aint sure if these are the ones you need or not, http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-STEAM-ENGINE...588830?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2eb609c39e


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

That trailing truck would go to the 4-6-4 Hudson they offered...:thumbsup:


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Great Analogy!!*



shaygetz said:


> Hmmmm...like a Ruth's Crist steak to C rations...... One owns them for nostalgic reasons, not running qualities....


Shay that just made me laugh like a Hyena!!! Just having a "Big Boy" is the ultimate of every model railroader. I always think of Capt. Ahab and his obsession with a certain white whale!! Some day I will have one!!!:laugh: And Grunt once you get that trailing truck that monster will rock!!


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## GruntUltra (Jun 22, 2011)

I put together a little oval with 22" radius curves and ran the engine-half of the Big Boy around for Dad last night (we had him over for dinner). It can crawl nice & slow! We also ran the Athearn F7's; a Santa Fe that ALWAYS ran great, then a powered set (A&B) of UP's. The UP's hooked together can also crawl like nobody's business! While he was over we looked at the old 0-6-0 Roundhouse switcher and got it running after a bit of tinkering (Dad was 14 back in 1954 when his Dad bought it!) It's made of pot metal and was also good runner way through the 70's & 80's. We also looked at the 2-8-2 Micado (all-metal) that took a spill at some point and needs some serious TLC. The rods connecting the drive wheels on one axle have come undone with no hardware to be found. Dad offerred to take it to a friend who has helped him out in the past to get it fixed up. It was a pretty succesful night, and I'll get some pics of us 'gathered around the layout' soon. He enjoyed it and stayed a while running the engines and recollecting about the times in the past.
In the early 1980's, Dad switched from the trains to R/C ships as his primary hobby. He has about a dozen boats now ranging from tugboats to cargo ships to destroyers & cruisers, and gets together several times a year to put the fleet out in a lake with similar friends. I couldn't have picked a better Dad or role-model!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Grunt sounds like you had a very memorable day with your father.That's great for both of you. You mention that he is into RC boats and I wonder if he is involved at the RC Groups scale boat site? Maybe I know him from there? Pete


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## GruntUltra (Jun 22, 2011)

Dad's name is Robert Hoernke, but he goes by Bob, and his screen names tend to be BobHoernke or BobbySocks. I'm Grant Hoernke (Grunt has always been my nickname - not affiliated with the military, and Ultra was from a video card I purchased for my PC many, many years ago). In the pic is (left) my younger brother Lance (Dad is giving the B-17 and saran-wrapped parts of a B-29 on the layout to him); Dad in the middle, seated; and me on the right. From the left of the layout, there is the B-17 - above it is a Tyco Virginian modern diesel & B-29, then the UP #4005, and the pair of powered Athearn UP F7's A&B, then another track with some rolling stock: Morton Salt hopper, Tyco Texaco tanker, and a Burlington hopper) and the Athearn Santa Fe F7 is running on the track.
I've since managed to get the Roundhouse 0-6-0 switcher running as good as ever, @ 57 years old! The Virginian diesel (above) and my old Tyco Clementine engine from my childhood are both running after some minor repairs. And Dad called today to say that the Mikado steam engine drive wheels and rods are fixed, but it's not yet running.
I'm aware that pretty much anything with Tyco on it is junk, but these are the trains that I played with as a kid and still enjoy being able to run them.
There is a set of silver Santa Fe passenger cars that I'm working on now. We NEVER ran them as kids due to the length of the cars bumping into anything on their inside track, and the weights inside the cars had come loose making them pretty unstable. Bear in mind that I'm not really RESTORING these, but making them run-able so my daughter & I can enjoy them. I just need to find some really tiny hardware now!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Grant,

Nice to see you and your father enjoying some hobbies together. Nice B17! Ohh ... nothin' wrong with fixing up the old Tycos ... I have mine from when I was a kid (early '70's), and my kids now love to see 'em run!

TJ


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

I agree, in this world of DCC and multiple old brands under one company, we need to respect those who came before us in the hobby, and learn as much as we can. I have a friend, an elderly gentilman, who I have learned so much from, I only hope, that as new modelers come about, that they take time to learn from the men who were model railroading, when Elvis first was on The Ed Sullivan Show, when Lucy was horking down vitavetavegimine and chocolates, and Steam, even the Big Boys roamed the land. When Woodstock, Rod Stewart's (a fellow HO/OO modeler too) Maggie May, Studio 54 and Bell-bottems, were all the rage! Let us learn from them, they are becomming few and fleeding, for who knows when the last one will vanish like steam.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Fun reflections there, TrainGuru ... fun, old stuff! Lucille Ball would have been 100 just the other day! And we're all still trying to wipe those horrid bell-bottom memories from our minds!

TJ


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

I always liked the bell bottoms--on women.  Pete


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

I once had a teacher, that told our whole class (it was a small class), about the time she had to have these orange bell bottoms, she said she looked like a pumpkin! Aside from that, she took a tour of Holland/The Netherlands, that involved a lot of train travel... Lucky woman!!!


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