# Under the table



## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

I also plan to eventually add a Dcc system to an existing dc pwr. supply on the layout I own. My questions to day concern a standardization of wire insulation color code.
1) Is there any standardization?
2) If there is does it carry over from industry?
3)Could you please give me a for instance?
Thank you very much!
Regards,
tr1


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Frst,YOU DO NOT add DCC to a DC power system!If you do you'll have destructive potential to either or both systems.They just don't work together,plain and simple.

Now,if your layout operates fine on DC,it will do just fine on DCC.Simply remove the DC supply and substitute the DCC in place of.

There's no real standards for DCC that I know of.What's important is that you decide of the standards you are to use then stick to them.

Personally,I use yellow and green for DCC current,red and blue for DC acessories and white and black where I have regular AC.

Then I use coloured tie wraps to identify wire harnesses.This is my way,many others may differ.


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## golfermd (Apr 19, 2013)

The color of your track wiring is totally up to you. Whatever you want to use do as TR1 says, make it standard throughout the layout, or you will be forever chasing down problems. If you start with using red wire as your "A" track, use red throughout the whole thing for "A" tracks. All the decoders I have bought have been consistent for color coding. The red has been the positive rail pickup, the black for the negative pickup, orange to the motor positive, grey for motor negative, etc... I must say that I have purchased mine within the past year, and they have either been TCS or Soundtraxx (both sound and non-sound).


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Possible new wire standard to follow? #1) or #2)?*

up above I missed typed. I meant. Two power. supplies will be on the layout and separated electrically through block control switches. And I was wondering if there is a 
color standard to work from i.e. #1) (A/C: (-)=wht, (common); A/C (+)= blk hot; 
Regular dc= (+) blue; (-) dc= blue with white stripe; OR #2) dc=blk(-)and red dc =(+) AND DCC signal= blue: twisted pair blue, and blue with white stripe dc (-).
The blue twisted pair is the simulated A/C signal voltage. 14AWG (blue-twisted pair).With drop wires 22AWG? stranded The above instructions, I believe will be my new Standard to follow. Does anyone have any additional suggestions or comments here? 
Thank you,


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## golfermd (Apr 19, 2013)

I'd be careful in establishing "standards". Just be consistent. Wires that will be carrying more current should be thicker (i.e., 14 gauge), while wires for controls (like turnouts, etc.) can be 22-24 gauge because they won't be carrying large currents. Don't get wrapped up in "twisted pairs", etc., just be consistent with coloring and size so trouble shooting will be easier. If you want to use 22 gauge orange wire for a particular turnout machine positive feed, then use 22 gauge orange for all turnout machine positive feeds.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

IF you are going to use DC, I would only use it for running accessories and let DCC power the track. Even if you have blocks, a DCC or DC locomotive can be damaged as it crosses over into the next power block as it would then be fed both DC and DCC at the same time. A locomotives short control is the release of it's magic smoke. The DCC system will shut down.


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

NMRA has set very explicit color standards for DCC wiring!
Look here
http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/DCCStds.html

There are lots of links to get DCC help. A good one that is very easy to understand is:
http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm

Depending on which DCC system you go with, you may be able to use your current DC transformer as the power supply for the command station. If the voltage and amperage is lower than the requirements, it will work. You will be limited to the current of your DC supply. The command station will produce the double amplitude DCC at your supplies max setting.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

thank you gentelmen I'll check the links out
regards,
tr1


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

tr1

You gotta be real careful about a dual power source for your layout.
DCC and DC don't mix at all. 

You'll want to build in a fail proof way of powering the tracks to avoid
any possible DCC/DC cross connection.

If you do not plan to run both systems at the same time a simple double pole,
double throw switch can do that, the center tabs go to the tracks and
DCC goes on tabs at one end, DC to the tabs on the other end of the
switch.

If you are going to have an 'oval',
or some other track plan, with DC and another with DCC it gets more complex.

Don


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*loss of conductivity,is that possible?*

Thanks again for all your thoughts and opinions.I was just thinking out loud,again........
I first have to get my layout into running order once again. Electrically it has been sitting idle for over a decade while, some improvements were attempted sceneically .
During that time,I s it possible for the switch machines (Atlas) to loose their coductivity?
Because, when I tried them again recently,they did not seem to be so robust,just a little "click".
Is it possible the copper and brass metal's have tarnished? Reducing conductivity?
Regards,
tr1


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

yes it is possible. Check the voltage to the turnouts, it might be your power source.


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## ggnlars (Aug 6, 2013)

The turnout motors operate off the AC part of the supply. You need to check the voltage there, and at the turnout control switch and at the turnout motor. If your layout is in a basement or other non conditioned area, then contact oxidation is very likely to exist in all the electrical joints.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Also, crud may have built up in the selonoids themselves causing the core to slide sluggishly.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Corrosion can set in on any metal electrical conductor. The Atlas turnouts
can lose electrical contact around the rivets holding the points.
That can cause loss of power on the point rails. There are wires 
under the turnout that feed rails beyond the frogs that can
lose conductivity also. You'll have to check 'em one
at a time to see what's what.

Don


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

thank you all, for the replies on my conductivity issues the trouble shooting will keep me busy for a while. It's not the A/C power, source though
regards,
tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*DCC Made Easier*

14 awg. wire. for Buss Is recommended by the NMRA. the standard color's suggested are red(rd.) and black(blk). Now the feeders can be as small as 20 AWG. No longer than 3 feet though. The feeders, also red&black are soldered to the appropriate 14 AWG colored wires.
Now the standard set by the NMRA/ (" industry").red wires "R"ight side rail black wire left side of rail.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

So which is the right side of the track? Seems like you could pick either. I couldn't find a clear definition on the NMRA site. I'm sure it doesn't matter as long as you stick with one method throughout.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*left or right rail?*

I guess, that would be determined by the owner operator, Good one, banjo picker! (Hutch)
I'm not really sure how to determine that. However,like you say, it's best too stay consistent once that is determined. And while we're at it, to maybe follow the NMRA standards if at all possible with the color codes. Red=(+) Black=(-)
Regards,
tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*clockwise counter clockwise?*

Hutch, (model train guy) Now that you mention that :dunno:


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## Gordon Ivascu (Jan 5, 2014)

DCC sytem loco but my switches are DC. If I follow above this is going to cause trouble? So far I do not have issues. Power to DC is only to the motor flipping the track again I am new how does power flip to track. I do not think it is going to the rail themselves. Or am I really dumb and missing something


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Gordon

DCC current goes to the rails only. Further,
the rails should only have DCC connected to them
unless there are insulated joiners between a DCC 
oval and a DC oval. Even then, this is not a
recommended method of wiring or operation.

DC is for turnout motors, lights and other accessories.
(Some use the AC accessories terminals on DC power packs.)

Unless there is a defect, the turnout motor DC will
not contact the rails.

Don


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Hutch said:


> So which is the right side of the track? Seems like you could pick either. I couldn't find a clear definition on the NMRA site. I'm sure it doesn't matter as long as you stick with one method throughout.


Pick a direction of travel, establish a RH/LH side and stay consistent.

I used Red/White. Doesn't really matter as long as you are consistent.


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