# Question about an American Flyer 48T Set and Value



## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

I have a complete set (48T) with the Royal Blue engine… it includes a very rare *gray* 631 T&P gondola… is it better to replace the rare 631 with a common 631 one and then sell the rare 631 separately... or to leave it in the set…I would like to get best value for them… appreciate everyone’s thoughts…thank you so much… TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

A couple of questions. What is the overall condition of the 631, does it have all 4 steps and original brass weight couplers? Is the OB for the 631 present? For comparison what is the overall condition and completeness of the set?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Since Train Girl was nice enough to start this 48T thread I will repost my 48T set that is in the Picture of the Day thread.

This set is complete and relatively unused, no rare variations, The set box is in good condition, the 48T is legible but it was stamped mostly in the red area of the label. All the OB's and OE's are present with legible stamps. Some sets had an engine with indented tender as shown in the separate picture and some had an uncataloged 2B transformer. Neither of these adds much to the set value, maybe 10% to 15%. The gray 631 in E condition is worth around $275, more than the $150 to $200 my set as shown is worth.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Since Train Girl was nice enough to start this 48T thread I will repost my 48T set that is in the Picture of the Day thread.
> 
> This set is complete and relatively unused, no rare variations, The set box is in good condition, the 48T is legible but it was stamped mostly in the red area of the label. All the OB's and OE's are present with legible stamps. Some sets had an engine with indented tender as shown in the separate picture and some had an uncataloged 2B transformer. Neither of these adds much to the set value, maybe 10% to 15%. The gray 631 in E condition is worth around $275, more than the $150 to $200 my set as shown is worth.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much Tom...smile...you are awesome...smile...will pass this on to my bro...smile...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I think it might be better to sell the gray 631 separately.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Tom, your 350 looks nice. Mine is in average condition from what I have seen.
Amazes me that the 350 was bottom of the line locomotive. Mine is not the indented
tender. It is the 1948 model. Brass weighted coupler and seperate metal handrails.
No boxes.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mopac, the picture of the indented tender looks much worse than it is. I should re-photograph that engine. That picture was taken in 1989 when we were packing up for a move to Chicago. That was the last time my collection was small enough that I could take pictures of most of the items. In those three short years we were in Wheaton my collection became 5x what it was. On the average we moved about every 4 years, that is why I never had a permanent train layout.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Since Train Girl was nice enough to start this 48T thread I will repost my 48T set that is in the Picture of the Day thread.
> 
> This set is complete and relatively unused, no rare variations, The set box is in good condition, the 48T is legible but it was stamped mostly in the red area of the label. All the OB's and OE's are present with legible stamps. Some sets had an engine with indented tender as shown in the separate picture and some had an uncataloged 2B transformer. Neither of these adds much to the set value, maybe 10% to 15%. The gray 631 in E condition is worth around $275, more than the $150 to $200 my set as shown is worth.
> 
> ...


Hi Tom... I am curious...what is the picture of the day thread? are photos posted someplace, something new every day? sounds interesting...smile...TrainGirl


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I am not Tom but I can answer your question. I started the thread. It is just something to keep the S forum moving.
It is a pic forum (we all love pics). Post any pic of anything S scale. We get off base once in awhile but that is ok.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I see it is Photo of the day. I just posted a comment in it to bring it back to the top of the screen. Mopac did a great thing by starting the thread.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Thanks to both of you...smile... what a great idea... so I noticed there are a couple of different forum types?? so that is a different forum feed? or this same one?? thanks...sorry to ask such silly questions...smile...TrainGirl...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)




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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> View attachment 547597
> View attachment 547598
> View attachment 547597
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Hi guys... I just posted photos of my 48T set... however, there are duplicates...sorry... I did that in error and cannot figure out how to delete them...smile... appreciate your thoughts about this set... and value...smile... also how to delete duplicate ones...smile...thank you so much...TrainGirl...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> Hi guys... I just posted photos of my 48T set... however, there are duplicates...sorry... I did that in error and cannot figure out how to delete them...smile... appreciate your thoughts about this set... and value...smile... also how to delete duplicate ones...smile...thank you so much...TrainGirl


I just figured out how to delete the duplicates... oh my gosh... am becoming a techy...smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> I just figured out how to delete the duplicates... oh my gosh... am becoming a techy...smile...TrainGirl


Also, when I was taking photos...forgot to put original box and wrapper (assume wrapper is original...no marking on it) on table...smile...TrainGirl


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Nice Royal Blue set Train Girl. I agree with tom that you should replace the grey gondola
with a more common one.

This train forum is broke down into different scales. The different threads you speak of are
all under the S title.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Train Girl, your 48T set is probably the nicest one I have seen, it should bring top dollar if you sell it.
Train Girl, I assumed you were familiar with the organization of the MTF and the grouping of threads (Topics.) When I open the forum I always use the "New" sort. If I am looking for an older thread then I sort by subject. Click on the 5 dots/bars to the right of the "New" bubble and that brings up all the major Topics. Scroll down to find S gauge. That is how I realized you started the 48T topic in General Model Train Discussion rather than in S gauge.
I do not think you were asking about other forums but there is one that has a good participation by S gaugers, that is the OGR forum. I participate in it with the same screen name. It is fundamentally different than MTF because it is a commercial enterprise, not a private forum. OGR has RULES that are strictly enforced. A number of participants have been banned for not adhering to the posting rules and some have quit in frustration. However it is a good forum with a lot of unique and valuable information. The S gauge sub-forum posting activity is mainly new production using Legacy or FlyerChief controls. Separate from S gauge they have manufacturers sub-forums, electronics and modern control systems areas. If you want to know how to set up and use Legacy, LCS, DCC, or DCS that is the place to look.
The final group is the dedicated S Scale modelers/operators. (We are considered High-Railers.) These are the modelers who scratch build items, add scale details, use code 70 or code 100 track with scale profile wheels and operate with DC or DCC. My understanding is this group of modelers have there own forum on Facebook but I have not looked for it.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have never been on Facebook, I understand they have a good "For Sale" section.
My wife and her family and friends were on Facebook. LOL, maybe thats why I wasn't.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

The Royal Blue set is another Gilbert idea that bothers me and makes me wonder "what were they thinking"
The 350 is a streamline locomotive. Streamline was for passenger trains. Gilbert makes a freight set out of it. No Royal Blue passenger cars. But they did in O scale prewar. I have seen guys put S trucks on the O scale passenger cars. A Royal Blue
passenger set would have been awesome.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If you have extra 650's you can paint them blue with white window trim. Some operators have painted 652's blue with white trim but that costs a bit more. Dry transfers or decals are readily available. Two 650's and a 651 can be easily done in a weekend. The result is much better than putting S gauge trucks under the stamped metal prewar Royal Blue coaches.
I have never been on any social media platform and have no plans to start. My wife has an account on FB and one other so she can check up on some of the relatives. She does not post.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mopac, if you ever hit the jackpot at the casino you can buy the American models Royal Blue Budd car set with extra cars. I think the heavyweights would look better behind the Gilbert engine but they have long since been sold out.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Tom, I will put the blue passenger cars on the To Do list. I think that would be cool.
I did not know AM did Royal Blue cars. Hitting a decent jackpot will be tough. I usually
hit 4 or 5 decent jackpots a year. I have zero this year. They have the machines very tight right now. They are not doing well. And if nobody wins they quit coming.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Sounds great. I hope we do not have to wait too long for pictures! Hopefully sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas?


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Mopac, the picture of the indented tender looks much worse than it is. I should re-photograph that engine. That picture was taken in 1989 when we were packing up for a move to Chicago. That was the last time my collection was small enough that I could take pictures of most of the items. In those three short years we were in Wheaton my collection became 5x what it was. On the average we moved about every 4 years, that is why I never had a permanent train layout.


I am just rereading the thread...smile... I cannot imagine having a train collection and moving...smile...geez... TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> I think it might be better to sell the gray 631 separately.


I am just now getting around to really reading the thread...smile...thank you... smile...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> I am just now getting around to really reading the thread...smile...thank you... smile...


I just wonder though... might there be someone interested in the set as is, with the grey car and who might want to pay more for it?? curious for your thoughts...smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

mopac said:


> Tom, I will put the blue passenger cars on the To Do list. I think that would be cool.
> I did not know AM did Royal Blue cars. Hitting a decent jackpot will be tough. I usually
> hit 4 or 5 decent jackpots a year. I have zero this year. They have the machines very tight right now. They are not doing well. And if nobody wins they quit coming.


I have gone to the boat a handful of times years ago...smile... I take my $20.00 and when it is gone, that is it for me...smile... think I won $20.00 one time...smile...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Mopac, AM has them as streamlined Budd cars with just a blue stripe. The all blue heavyweights with the gray window band are fantastic but have been sold out for years. It would have to be a jackpot close to 4 figures that you pocket and take home, not keep on wagering.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

mopac said:


> Nice Royal Blue set Train Girl. I agree with tom that you should replace the grey gondola
> with a more common one.
> 
> This train forum is broke down into different scales. The different threads you speak of are
> all under the S title.


Thank you...smile...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

There would be some interest in the 48T set as is but how much is hard to predict. If I were selling it with the gray car I would use a $425 reserve. I believe there are a lot more collectors who want the perfect gray gondola that do not want to purchase a 48T set to get it. It is ultimately your decision.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Train Girl, your 48T set is probably the nicest one I have seen, it should bring top dollar if you sell it.
> Train Girl, I assumed you were familiar with the organization of the MTF and the grouping of threads (Topics.) When I open the forum I always use the "New" sort. If I am looking for an older thread then I sort by subject. Click on the 5 dots/bars to the right of the "New" bubble and that brings up all the major Topics. Scroll down to find S gauge. That is how I realized you started the 48T topic in General Model Train Discussion rather than in S gauge.
> I do not think you were asking about other forums but there is one that has a good participation by S gaugers, that is the OGR forum. I participate in it with the same screen name. It is fundamentally different than MTF because it is a commercial enterprise, not a private forum. OGR has RULES that are strictly enforced. A number of participants have been banned for not adhering to the posting rules and some have quit in frustration. However it is a good forum with a lot of unique and valuable information. The S gauge sub-forum posting activity is mainly new production using Legacy or FlyerChief controls. Separate from S gauge they have manufacturers sub-forums, electronics and modern control systems areas. If you want to know how to set up and use Legacy, LCS, DCC, or DCS that is the place to look.
> The final group is the dedicated S Scale modelers/operators. (We are considered High-Railers.) These are the modelers who scratch build items, add scale details, use code 70 or code 100 track with scale profile wheels and operate with DC or DCC. My understanding is this group of modelers have there own forum on Facebook but I have not looked for it.


Thank you so much for this information Tom...smile... I may consider checking into the one...smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> There would be some interest in the 48T set as is but how much is hard to predict. If I were selling it with the gray car I would use a $425 reserve. I believe there are a lot more collectors who want the perfect gray gondola that do not want to purchase a 48T set to get it. It is ultimately your decision.


Thank you so much Tom... I usually do auctions on eBay... do not really know about the reserve feature... guess need to research it... or do you happen to know...smile...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

mopac said:


> The Royal Blue set is another Gilbert idea that bothers me and makes me wonder "what were they thinking"
> The 350 is a streamline locomotive. Streamline was for passenger trains. Gilbert makes a freight set out of it. No Royal Blue passenger cars. But they did in O scale prewar. I have seen guys put S trucks on the O scale passenger cars. A Royal Blue
> passenger set would have been awesome.


I have been letting my brother know about some of the thread...smile... he said we have an O-Gauge Royal Blue set from 1941... thinking I should take some photos and post them...smile...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I avoid ebay, too many things to purchase I do not need. There are reserve auctions but I do not know how to set it up. I know it costs the seller more to include a reserve. If you are experienced with ebay use your best judgement. It's possible you could net more with no reserve.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Train girl, that would either be set #4102 or #4106. Post pictures if you can. Set 4106 has the baggage car with whistle.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> I avoid ebay, too many things to purchase I do not need. There are reserve auctions but I do not know how to set it up. I know it costs the seller more to include a reserve. If you are experienced with ebay use your best judgement. It's possible you could net more with no reserve.


Thank you... understand about avoiding them...smile... I had someone else who does eBay say they charge more... have never checked into it because of that comment...smile...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Train girl, that would either be set #4102 or #4106. Post pictures if you can. Set 4106 has the baggage car with whistle.


Thank you... I will take a few photos sometime soon...smile...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I myself avoid auctions with a reserve. I just do not like them. I believe you should just start your auction where you would set your reserve. Ebay is pretty good about market value of an item. If an auction does not reach your reserve you are wanting too much for the item. And you are wasting your time and everybody time. Or you really do not want to sell your item. Or you are fishing for that one big bite. Which seldom happens.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

mopac said:


> I myself avoid auctions with a reserve. I just do not like them. I believe you should just start your auction where you would set your reserve. Ebay is pretty good about market value of an item. If an auction does not reach your reserve you are wanting too much for the item. And you are wasting your time and everybody time. Or you really do not want to sell your item. Or you are fishing for that one big bite. Which seldom happens.


I appreciate the comment... I do auctions... and if does not sell, reduce periodically... seems to work well for me...smile...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It is up to the seller to determine how to list the set and up to potential buyers if they want to enter a bid. Train Girl never brings us anything easy. A 48T set of this quality with the specific variation shows up once in 5 years at most. My instinct is to sell the set as is because it preserves a historical artifact, a boxed set with a date stamped engine and the gray gondola variation. This will help editors of new guides in the future with pinning down the production dates of gray gondolas. On the other hand that approach is unlikely to maximize the value.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> It is up to the seller to determine how to list the set and up to potential buyers if they want to enter a bid. Train Girl never brings us anything easy. A 48T set of this quality with the specific variation shows up once in 5 years at most. My instinct is to sell the set as is because it preserves a historical artifact, a boxed set with a date stamped engine and the gray gondola variation. This will help editors of new guides in the future with pinning down the production dates of gray gondolas. On the other hand that approach is unlikely to maximize the value.


Thank you for the thought...smile... will pass it on to my bro...smile...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi everyone... my brother set our O-Gauge Royal Blue set from 1941 out so I could take a couple of photos...so here you go... hope I do it right...smile... last time ended up with duplicates...smile...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is set 4102, it retailed for $9.50 in 1941. Worth a lot more today. That set looks perfect, very little use.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Sorry guys... I tried a couple of times... still have a duplicate and cannot figure out how to delete just one of them...smile...definitely not a techy...smile...TrainGirl...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> That is set 4102, it retailed for $9.50 in 1941. Worth a lot more today. That set looks perfect, very little use.


I know Tom...smile... it is so cool...smile... TrainGirl...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> I know Tom...smile... it is so cool...smile... TrainGirl...


We have not started on any O Gauge things...have to wonder what value would be today... or even how to find out... am not aware of any Greenberg Value Guides or other books for O Gauge... or are there?? and I am just unaware of them? Appreciate your thoughts... smile... many thanks for all of your knowledge... you are so helpful...smile...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I am not the best person to estimate pre-war train values, not my area of expertise. That said, my guesses are $120 for the engine and $60 each for the thee cars. Presence of OB's and an SB would add to those values. I base this on the set grading as an E condition.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> I am not the best person to estimate pre-war train values, not my area of expertise. That said, my guesses are $120 for the engine and $60 each for the thee cars. Presence of OB's and an SB would add to those values. I base this on the set grading as an E condition.


Hi Tom... again, thank you so much for your thoughts and knowledge...smile... I will pass that on to my bro...smile...I am guessing there are not really any O Gauge books out there that reflect price? thank you so much... you are truly appreciated...smile...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The Doyle book has some American Flyer O gauge prices but they are out of date. I feel I am fairly close on your set because it is in great condition and should attract a lot of interest. I hope you get more when you decide to sell it.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> The Doyle book has some American Flyer O gauge prices but they are out of date. I feel I am fairly close on your set because it is in great condition and should attract a lot of interest. I hope you get more when you decide to sell it.


Thank you Tom...smile... I trust your judgement...smile... I just know we have other items, not sure how many, a few O Gauge, some Marx, and other things... and was wondering...smile...

Also, my bro has a question about another item... a 594 Animated Track Gang with a TCA emblem on bottom... so will be starting another thread soon...smile... you are so much appreciated...smile... hope you have some insight on this item... TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

There are three styles of the 594. Pre-War, post-War and reproductions. A run of repros was done about 20 years ago, same time as the passenger car washers and the ramp for the unloading car. It is fairly easy to tell the three apart. I have no idea why there would be a TCA emblem on one unless TCA sold some of the repros to members. I f so I missed that promo.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> There are three styles of the 594. Pre-War, post-War and reproductions. A run of repros was done about 20 years ago, same time as the passenger car washers and the ramp for the unloading car. It is fairly easy to tell the three apart. I have no idea why there would be a TCA emblem on one unless TCA sold some of the repros to members. I f so I missed that promo.


Gosh you are fast and on the ball Tom... I was going to post, but have not, so since you replied here, will post his question here and a couple of photos...smile...

I am posting my brother’s question here…we have a 594 Animated Track Gang in Excellent condition. Underneath the platform, there is a TCA sticker (see picture). Wondering if the sticker indicates platform was repainted and verified as such by TCA…and how does it affect value… everything on top of the platform seems original… wondering what we have…smile…TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Sorry...have the duplicate thing going again...not sure what I am doing or how to delete...smile... so sorry...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That TCA sticker is different from what I thought from your first description. That sticker is a TCA official marking applied to items that have been restored or have reproduction replacement parts. It or simillar markings are required by TCA bylaws to be present on any such item offered for sale at a TCA meet. It looks like the base as well as at least the bases of the figures have been repainted.
Based on the fabric covered wiring this is likely a pre-war version.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> That TCA sticker is different from what I thought from your first description. That sticker is a TCA official marking applied to items that have been restored or have reproduction replacement parts. It or simillar markings are required by TCA bylaws to be present on any such item offered for sale at a TCA meet. It looks like the base as well as at least the bases of the figures have been repainted.
> Based on the fabric covered wiring this is likely a pre-war version.


You are amazing Tom...smile... I will pass on to my brother...smile... what are your thoughts in terms of value...?? and does the sticker make it more valuable... am thinking not... but curious...smile...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Train Girl, I think it is more likely I have been collecting and playing with American Flyer trains for so long something was bound to stick in my head.
The TCA sticker does not directly add value, it tells the buyer that the seller of a high value item is honest so the buyer can purchase with confidence.
I am going to begin with a history story. Back in the 1980's and earlier, collectors were not interested so much in accessories. Accessories would languish on the sellers tables at train meets. Beginning about 1990 interest in accessories exploded and values rose rapidly. Then in about 2000 and beyond Lionel and/or MTH began making modern reproductions of popular and rare accessories for $100 to $150. Now an operator wanting an accessory for use on a layout did not need to buy a pricey original so the values dropped considerably. For example, the 594 was worth $1,800 in the 1987 Greenberg guide. That is Edition 1 of the Greenberg Guide, and so no one has to ask, yes I have almost every one beginning with that first edition. In 1998 it was worth $2,400, escalated to today that would be around $5,000 2020 dollars. By 2015 it had fallen to $1,300. At that point all the modern repro's made were long since sold. In the 2019 guide the value is back to $2,100.
A long standing rule of thumb was a restored item was worth the Greenberg value for an original in "Good" condition. For a postwar (1946 or 1947) 594 that is about $650. For a pre-war that is around $500, but I am far less certain of that specific lower value for pre-war. Since this accessory is so scarce it might sell for about 20% more than those numbers.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I found these two receipts mixed in with my old Greenberg price guides. I was partially guilty of buying the new reproductions. In my defense I already had LN OB originals in my collection so these were for a layout. As you all can see I bought these in February 2001, along with some other items. The two accessories were never used and I believe the boxes are still sealed. The other items are in use.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Train Girl, I think it is more likely I have been collecting and playing with American Flyer trains for so long something was bound to stick in my head.
> The TCA sticker does not directly add value, it tells the buyer that the seller of a high value item is honest so the buyer can purchase with confidence.
> I am going to begin with a history story. Back in the 1980's and earlier, collectors were not interested so much in accessories. Accessories would languish on the sellers tables at train meets. Beginning about 1990 interest in accessories exploded and values rose rapidly. Then in about 2000 and beyond Lionel and/or MTH began making modern reproductions of popular and rare accessories for $100 to $150. Now an operator wanting an accessory for use on a layout did not need to buy a pricey original so the values dropped considerably. For example, the 594 was worth $1,800 in the 1987 Greenberg guide. That is Edition 1 of the Greenberg Guide, and so no one has to ask, yes I have almost every one beginning with that first edition. In 1998 it was worth $2,400, escalated to today that would be around $5,000 2020 dollars. By 2015 it had fallen to $1,300. At that point all the modern repro's made were long since sold. In the 2019 guide the value is back to $2,100.
> A long standing rule of thumb was a restored item was worth the Greenberg value for an original in "Good" condition. For a postwar (1946 or 1947) 594 that is about $650. For a pre-war that is around $500, but I am far less certain of that specific lower value for pre-war. Since this accessory is so scarce it might sell for about 20% more than those numbers.


Thank you so much for the information and the history...smile... it is truly amazing... and your wealth of information is much appreciated...smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> Thank you so much for the information and the history...smile... it is truly amazing... and your wealth of information is much appreciated...smile...TrainGirl


And to have the receipts...smile... so cool...I think my dad kept some, but most of what he purchased think was done at shows or from individuals, so no real record...smile... TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Pleased to help.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Pleased to help.


Thank you... am sure we will have lots more questions...smile... you have been wonderful and am pleasantly surprised at how much you know in many different areas...smile...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Pleased to help.


Thank you... smile... Train Girl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi all... I have not been on for a while... was thinking of you...especially Tom... and would like to wish anyone reading a Happy Thanksgiving... and Happy Holidays...smile... 

I do happen to have a question though...smile... which brought up the forum in my mind...smile... if a car was original American Flyer... and someone put a reproduction base on it... how would I know? I know Lionel purchased AF... guessing if it was AF by Lionel that it would be marked AF... but not by Gilbert... if it is a reproduction part, would it not be marked at all? how could I tell...smile...

Appreciate any comments... also if I should start a new thread... am happy to do that...smile... take care... be safe... TrainGirl...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Thank you for the kind thoughts. We are glad you are still with us on the MTH.
I believe all the chassis made by Lionel have Lionel stamped on them. I am not aware of any reproductions of original Gilbert chassis. I need a little time to look into this subject, but there would be other detail differences such as trucks and couplers between Gilbert and Lionel production.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Thank you for the kind thoughts. We are glad you are still with us on the MTH.
> I believe all the chassis made by Lionel have Lionel stamped on them. I am not aware of any reproductions of original Gilbert chassis. I need a little time to look into this subject, but there would be other detail differences such as trucks and couplers between Gilbert and Lionel production.


I had a 24319 salt car the buyer is returning as he said the base? do not remember exact term was a repro... will post image when I get it back... smile...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The Penn Salt tank car was made in 1958 only and all have a solid (not split) tank on a plastic chassis.That rules out use of a later Lionel chassis because all Lionel tank cars were split tank designs.I suppose someone could have swapped a different Gilbert chassis. I am not aware of reproduction solid plastic tank car chassis. I suppose it is possible some could have been made but that would be a costly item to reproduce.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> The Penn Salt tank car was made in 1958 only and all have a solid (not split) tank on a plastic chassis.That rules out use of a later Lionel chassis because all Lionel tank cars were split tank designs.I suppose someone could have swapped a different Gilbert chassis. I am not aware of reproduction solid plastic tank car chassis. I suppose it is possible some could have been made but that would be a costly item to reproduce.


Thank you Tom... sounds like he changed his mind and needed an excuse...smile... appreciate your insight... have more questions, which will be posting in a little while...smile... Rhonda


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi Tom… my brother has another question for you…smile…

We have a 375 GP-7 and understand it is very rare, if authentic… his research indicates that there were repros made and the way to verify its authenticity is to look for a date stamp under the cab... he took it apart and looked… and ours does not have a date stamp… so the question is… does the absence of a Date Stamp prove that it’s not original?

I am going to post a couple of photos also…smile…appreciate your thoughts about this…thank you… TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

And questions from me...curious...smile... why do some locomotives have a hole in the cow catcher... for instance, the 332... posting photo...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

And we have a train that has a man in it...smile... my brother says someone put him in the engine window...smile... but am curious... did Gilbert ever make a train where he put a man in the window... or did someone put him in there...smile... I think it is a cute idea...smile... again, posting photo...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi again Tom... and anyone else who might wish to respond...smile... one more question for now... have had these in my mind for a while and keep forgetting to ask...smile... if the cap (not sure what it is called) on the front of the train is loose, again will post photo... is there a way to reattach it... or I should say, how would one do that?? appreciate your insight on all questions... thank you so much...smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Sorry...another question Tom...smile... I have a Domino Hopper car on eBay and have been asked to take the top of the hopper off so someone can see the inside... it appears a little loose on one side... but seems pretty secure, not like it would come off easily... are hoppers made to take top off... is that feasible and if done, how would you do it without doing harm to the car?? smile... thank you so much...smile... you are appreciated...smile...TrainGirl...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The absence of a visible date stamp inside the shell means nothing unless there is evidence the shell was repainted. It just eliminates one method to test authenticity. My view is if someone were going to fake a 375 the shell would be in better shape. It is likely a true 375 but without a careful inspection it is impossible to be sure.
Each series of steam engines had unique pilots based on the prototype Gilbert chose to model. In general, of the steamers without front couplers, the Hudsons and Northerns had open coupler pockets on the pilot, others had closed pilots.
That 312 must be one of the versions with a brass button that holds on the smoke box door, they did not work well. The versions with the two spring clips work much better. Department 56 makes a product called Tack Wax to hold figures in place on displays. I have had some success in using it around the edge of the smoke box door to hold it in place. It is sticky but can be wiped off if necessary. 
The figure in the engine cab was added by a previous owner.
I have removed the cover from an inexpensive CRP Cement hopper. They were not glued but can still take some force to remove. It takes great care not to chip any paint. He must want to know if it is the Tuscan painted shell variation since it is not a reproduction. I would not do it since the value is the same either way. That yellow paint can easily chip, but your decision. Is that the 24222 OB in the background? If it is he would be unwise to pass it up.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Those covered hopper tops do come off. Usually my finger nail is enough tool to do the job.
And then they just press on. It should not damage car to remove the top. I do not know of a
reason they want to see inside. Don't use a screwdriver because like Tom says you might chip the paint.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It is likely to see which of the three base color variations the car is. The tuscan would be the most rare but it is not valued higher. I have had some cars where the cover would not come off short of prying it off, some could be almost lifted off. This car is worth close to $400 so I would be extra careful.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> The absence of a visible date stamp inside the shell means nothing unless there is evidence the shell was repainted. It just eliminates one method to test authenticity. My view is if someone were going to fake a 375 the shell would be in better shape. It is likely a true 375 but without a careful inspection it is impossible to be sure.
> Each series of steam engines had unique pilots based on the prototype Gilbert chose to model. In general, of the steamers without front couplers, the Hudsons and Northerns had open coupler pockets on the pilot, others had closed pilots.
> That 312 must be one of the versions with a brass button that holds on the smoke box door, they did not work well. The versions with the two spring clips work much better. Department 56 makes a product called Tack Wax to hold figures in place on displays. I have had some success in using it around the edge of the smoke box door to hold it in place. It is sticky but can be wiped off if necessary.
> The figure in the engine cab was added by a previous owner.
> I have removed the cover from an inexpensive CRP Cement hopper. They were not glued but can still take some force to remove. It takes great care not to chip any paint. He must want to know if it is the Tuscan painted shell variation since it is not a reproduction. I would not do it since the value is the same either way. That yellow paint can easily chip, but your decision. Is that the 24222 OB in the background? If it is he would be unwise to pass it up.


Thank you so much...smile... all wonderful information...smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

mopac said:


> Those covered hopper tops do come off. Usually my finger nail is enough tool to do the job.
> And then they just press on. It should not damage car to remove the top. I do not know of a
> reason they want to see inside. Don't use a screwdriver because like Tom says you might chip the paint.


Thank you so much...smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> It is likely to see which of the three base color variations the car is. The tuscan would be the most rare but it is not valued higher. I have had some cars where the cover would not come off short of prying it off, some could be almost lifted off. This car is worth close to $400 so I would be extra careful.


Thank you again Tom...smile... much appreciated... both of you...smile...TrainGirl


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

That Domino car is very nice.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> It is likely to see which of the three base color variations the car is. The tuscan would be the most rare but it is not valued higher. I have had some cars where the cover would not come off short of prying it off, some could be almost lifted off. This car is worth close to $400 so I would be extra careful.


Hi Tom...my brother was able to remove the cover...smile...thought you might like to see photos...smile... TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Thank you for the kind thoughts. We are glad you are still with us on the MTH.
> I believe all the chassis made by Lionel have Lionel stamped on them. I am not aware of any reproductions of original Gilbert chassis. I need a little time to look into this subject, but there would be other detail differences such as trucks and couplers between Gilbert and Lionel production.


I received the car back... what he actually meant was the platform area... and I hate to admit I had not realized the wiring was not secure on top...however am posting a couple of photos as wonder about the comment about the platform being a repro... and appreciate your thoughts...smile... and I need to learn how to tell reproductions things...smile.. TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> The absence of a visible date stamp inside the shell means nothing unless there is evidence the shell was repainted. It just eliminates one method to test authenticity. My view is if someone were going to fake a 375 the shell would be in better shape. It is likely a true 375 but without a careful inspection it is impossible to be sure.
> Each series of steam engines had unique pilots based on the prototype Gilbert chose to model. In general, of the steamers without front couplers, the Hudsons and Northerns had open coupler pockets on the pilot, others had closed pilots.
> That 312 must be one of the versions with a brass button that holds on the smoke box door, they did not work well. The versions with the two spring clips work much better. Department 56 makes a product called Tack Wax to hold figures in place on displays. I have had some success in using it around the edge of the smoke box door to hold it in place. It is sticky but can be wiped off if necessary.
> The figure in the engine cab was added by a previous owner.
> I have removed the cover from an inexpensive CRP Cement hopper. They were not glued but can still take some force to remove. It takes great care not to chip any paint. He must want to know if it is the Tuscan painted shell variation since it is not a reproduction. I would not do it since the value is the same either way. That yellow paint can easily chip, but your decision. Is that the 24222 OB in the background? If it is he would be unwise to pass it up.


Just rereading this evening...smile... and yes, it is OB...smile... thank you for verifying the man was added...my brother said that too...smile... and for all of your thoughts...smile...take care...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks for the pictures. The 24222 is a normal yellow painted over black plastic car, looks fine to me.
The Pa Salt has been tampered with but the tank body is an original. Gilbert put platforms on Chemical cars but not on tank cars and the Pa Salt was made as a chemical car. It looks to me like someone removed the railings and possibly the platform. It looks like the railings were painted black plus the ladders are missing that should be on both sides of the car. There should be no black paint on the tank supports that hold the platform and there should be no glue. The platform itself appears original. The railings on the platform were black. As good as the pictures are it is very hard to be certain without actually seeing the car close-up.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks for the pictures. The 24222 is a normal yellow painted over black plastic car, looks fine to me.
> The Pa Salt has been tampered with but the tank body is an original. Gilbert put platforms on Chemical cars but not on tank cars and the Pa Salt was made as a chemical car. It looks to me like someone removed the railings and possibly the platform. It looks like the railings were painted black plus the ladders are missing that should be on both sides of the car. There should be no black paint on the tank supports that hold the platform and there should be no glue. The platform itself appears original. The railings on the platform were black. As good as the pictures are it is very hard to be certain without actually seeing the car close-up.


Thank you... that is helpful...smile... I do have the ladders...they came off...smile... will pass on to my brother...smile...TrainGIrl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> Thank you... that is helpful...smile... I do have the ladders...they came off...smile... will pass on to my brother...smile...TrainGIrl


I do have more photos and am happy to post ones from what we had on eBay if you think it would be helpful to you...smile... let me know... 

Another question... on the cap? on front of a train...when loose...you mentioned the Tacky Stuff by Department 56... could the cap be removed after using it... for instance, if there was a bulb on the inside... you would not want to glue it so one could not change the bulb... so if there was a bulb inside, could you take the cap back off if needed after using the stuff mentioned.... thank you...smile... 

I also posted an addition to the 24425 thread this evening...smile...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is why I use the Tacky wax, it is not glue and the boiler front is easy to remove. It is marginal if the boiler front stays on with it, most do.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> That is why I use the Tacky wax, it is not glue and the boiler front is easy to remove. It is marginal if the boiler front stays on with it, most do.


Thank you Tom...smile... you are awesome...smile...


AmFlyer said:


> The absence of a visible date stamp inside the shell means nothing unless there is evidence the shell was repainted. It just eliminates one method to test authenticity. My view is if someone were going to fake a 375 the shell would be in better shape. It is likely a true 375 but without a careful inspection it is impossible to be sure.
> Each series of steam engines had unique pilots based on the prototype Gilbert chose to model. In general, of the steamers without front couplers, the Hudsons and Northerns had open coupler pockets on the pilot, others had closed pilots.
> That 312 must be one of the versions with a brass button that holds on the smoke box door, they did not work well. The versions with the two spring clips work much better. Department 56 makes a product called Tack Wax to hold figures in place on displays. I have had some success in using it around the edge of the smoke box door to hold it in place. It is sticky but can be wiped off if necessary.
> The figure in the engine cab was added by a previous owner.
> I have removed the cover from an inexpensive CRP Cement hopper. They were not glued but can still take some force to remove. It takes great care not to chip any paint. He must want to know if it is the Tuscan painted shell variation since it is not a reproduction. I would not do it since the value is the same either way. That yellow paint can easily chip, but your decision. Is that the 24222 OB in the background? If it is he would be unwise to pass it up.


Hi Tom... any who else might want to chime in...smile... I listed the 375... hand had question come up... two about the date stamping...one said it was inside the shell... the other inside the chassis... I know my brother looked at it and did not think it had a number...but wonder if he was looking in correct place... thoughts?? he is pretty thorough though...smile... and another about a horn assembly being inside... is that easy to see?? appreciate your thoughts...smile... thank you...TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

In all my engines that have factory date stamp it is is on the top underside of the shell.
I did not ask you about the presence of the Diesel horn (Air Chime whistle) inside the engine since I assumed you had verified its presence. It is a speaker, condenser and resistor plus wiring and the sliding pickup shoes in the truck side frames. It is the Diesel horn that makes it a 375 rather than a 371. The picture of the underside of the engine shows the presence of the sliding pickup shoes. The speaker is large and round, cannot miss it.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> In all my engines that have factory date stamp it is is on the top underside of the shell.
> I did not ask you about the presence of the Diesel horn (Air Chime whistle) inside the engine since I assumed you had verified its presence. It is a speaker, condenser and resistor plus wiring and the sliding pickup shoes in the truck side frames. It is the Diesel horn that makes it a 375 rather than a 371. The picture of the underside of the engine shows the presence of the sliding pickup shoes. The speaker is large and round, cannot miss it.


Thank you... will pass on to my bro...smile... take care...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> Hi Tom… my brother has another question for you…smile…
> 
> We have a 375 GP-7 and understand it is very rare, if authentic… his research indicates that there were repros made and the way to verify its authenticity is to look for a date stamp under the cab... he took it apart and looked… and ours does not have a date stamp… so the question is… does the absence of a Date Stamp prove that it’s not original?
> 
> ...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi Tom...trying this from my phone...sending couple of photos... on




























the 375 what do we have...no horn...there is us a date stamp... is the chassis the right one...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Train Girl, that looks like a 371 chassis. It appears original and untouched, no sign that a sound system was ever present. Also, all the GP7 diesels I have seen with the sound system have the reverse unit mounted farther forward, close to the motor truck. The speaker, condenser and resistor are then mounted between the reverse unit and the unpowered truck. It is most likely a 371 engine with number boards replaced with 375's.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Train Girl, that looks like a 371 chassis. It appears original and untouched, no sign that a sound system was ever present. Also, all the GP7 diesels I have seen with the sound system have the reverse unit mounted farther forward, close to the motor truck. The speaker, condenser and resistor are then mounted between the reverse unit and the unpowered truck. It is most likely a 371 engine with number boards replaced with 375's.


Thank you Tom... we have on eBay... guess should take it down...smile...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi Tom... and others... smile... 

I do not know I will be in the forum in the next couple of weeks with Christmas and New Years around the corner...smile... although I might be... never know... smile... 

I wanted to thank you Tom... and anyone else who commented...smile... it is much appreciated... smile... 

And to wish everyone a Wonderful Christmas... and a Happy New Year... smile... I know next year will be a better year for all of us... smile... take care and be safe... hope you enjoy the merriment of the season... smile... 

TrainGirl


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

All the best to you, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. None of us mind at all answering questions, even the really hard ones.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi Tom... and everyone else... smile... Happy New Year to all... smile... I cannot believe it has been so long since I have posted... smile... my brother has another question... am thinking good idea to start new thread... new year?? will see if I can figure out how to start new thread... smile... this time about a 625 orange Shell tank car smile... thank you for all you do... TrainGirl...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Train Girl said:


> Hi Tom... and everyone else... smile... Happy New Year to all... smile... I cannot believe it has been so long since I have posted... smile... my brother has another question... am thinking good idea to start new thread... new year?? will see if I can figure out how to start new thread... smile... this time about a 625 orange Shell tank car smile... thank you for all you do... TrainGirl...


Here is the new thread... smile... Question about a 625 Orange Shell Tank Car am becoming a pro here... smile...TrainGirl


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

Hi Tom... and everyone and was on this thread... smile... I have a question about a 650 New Haven Passenger Car... thought it best to do a new post... so here is the link to the new thread... appreciate any insight... smile... hope all is well with everyone... smile... thank you so much... TrainGirl









Question about American Flyer 650 Red New Haven...


Hi everyone... I have an American Flyer 650 Red New Haven Passenger Car listed on eBay... my brother did research on it and his description based on that is as follows: "Offered from 1946 through 1953, these plastic cars were the mainstay of the Gilbert passenger fleet during the early years...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It has been a while since we heard from you! I replied in the other thread regarding the 650.


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> It has been a while since we heard from you! I replied in the other thread regarding the 650.


Thank you... smile... have been thinking of you... smile... have not been on forum... so much to do... smile...


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## Train Girl (Aug 14, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> If you have extra 650's you can paint them blue with white window trim. Some operators have painted 652's blue with white trim but that costs a bit more. Dry transfers or decals are readily available. Two 650's and a 651 can be easily done in a weekend. The result is much better than putting S gauge trucks under the stamped metal prewar Royal Blue coaches.
> I have never been on any social media platform and have no plans to start. My wife has an account on FB and one other so she can check up on some of the relatives. She does not post.


Hi Tom... hope you are well... smile... have not been on for a while... just posted a question about a 24730 Overland Express Car (link below)... appreciate your insight... smile... thank you... smile... TrainGirl









Question about a 24730 Overland Express Car


Hi guys… smile… Happy Spring… smile… have not been on the forum for a while… and hope everyone is well… smile… I have a 24730 Overland Express Car… in doing research, it appears that most Overland Express cars have the emblem on the left side of the car… however, our car happens to have the...




www.modeltrainforum.com


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I replied in your other post.


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