# Royal Blue winter project



## imatt88

Hey all,

Well, I went and done it, I found this project on eBay and finally got my Royal Blue..

After watching TJ a while back, and recently Silence, got thru the restoration process with their Royals, I figured it was time to finally get mine..

Unfortunately, its a real project:laugh:, but its all I could afford



















the cow catcher is bent slightly, not sure I'm going to approach this one. Looks like it might have been dropped...


















The engine, needs some work









I bid on the tender as well, but I lost that auction. The tender was trashed, but it had the trailing truck for the locomotive, so I was hoping to snag it anyway

Its missing the front handrails, but that is the least of my worries, I need to find a tender first..

So, thats it for now, another one saved from the landfill

Keep you all posted,

Cheers, Ian


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## THE TYCO MAN

Ian, you can use a heat gun to slighty heat it up to bend back into shape. It is cast metal isn;t it?


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## imatt88

Yup, sure is


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## Nuttin But Flyer

OMG That sure is a project!!. While "wicked" didn't paint his that I am aware, he was able to get it running well. You certainly have more to do. But with our help, you should be able to fix most of the issues. Keep watching for a tender. If you plan to repaint this, there are other tenders that are identical for this particular engine, so keep watch for others as well as the Royal Blue. I know the Circus engine tender (#353) is one, but that would probably be hard to find and cost too much. Someone else here may be able to identify those numbers to keep watch.


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## imatt88

nuttin,

Yeah, I'm planning on a total resto. Repaint and everything.

I've been on eBay and I've been looking at tenders, so far nothing.

The circus train prices are out of sight, and the Silver Bullets are getting there too.

If you run across one, let me know,

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

You got more guts than me. I always buy things with decent paint cause I'm too afraid to try repainting. I'll get that info off to you tomorrow -- send your email in a PM if you haven't done so already. I'll also keep watch for a tender. I go to many shows within my area. Give me a cost you are comfortable with in case I find one -- you never know.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Ian -- Your email is on the way. Let me know if you need anything further. Good Luck !!
Keep us posted on your progress.....add photos too, we love to drool over other people's work.


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## tjcruiser

Matt,

I see you were keeping your shovel busy, like me ... midnight grave robbing!  Nice exhumation!!! :thumbsup:

Question ... is that S or O? AF made both. Yours looks S, via the filled-in side windows. (And you've posted here in the S section.)

I'm sure you recall this detailed thread:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=4806

Happy Frankensteining!!!

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

tj -- I believe the O-sacale had a different product number. I'm pretty sure this one is an S-scale. Although it's a bit scarred from whatever tomb it was left in, it looks very much like mine.


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## flyernut

Nice project. I can sandblast the boiler for you if wanted...You can get dry rub transfers for the "350" from PortLines. We have your back buddy...


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## tjcruiser

Don ... looks S to me, too.

Though it pains me to say this as a devoted Lionel guy ... the AF Royal Blue has always been one of my favorite looking locos. This is gonna be a fun project to watch.

Looking forward to the action, Ian!

TJ


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## imatt88

Guys,

I pretty bad at posting pics but I'll do my best to keep you guys informed.

Don, got all the info from you. thanks I don't know what a R B tender would go for, but how about the $20-$30 range?

I plan on using Floquil B & O Royal Blue to do my repaint

Flyernut, Send me your snail mail address and I'll take you up on that offer. Its going to need a serious cleaning

Portlines has a ton of parts I can use to restore all my AF stuff, great site

Should I go with waterslide decals, the tampo printing kit Portlines offer, or the dry transfers flyernut suggested?

Figure I'd throw that one out there for now....:laugh:

Thanks for all the support, I appreciate it

Cheers, Ian


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## tjcruiser

On my Lionel trains, I'm a big fan of the dry-transfer decals. Each individual letter/number stands along, with no tell-tale clear film around its permimeter. You can use a row of low-stick painter's tape above/below your intended placement to create top/bottom alignment margins while applying the letters/numbers.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Going to the Allentown, PA Show this Saturday -- I'll keep watch for a tender in that range but will use my judgement considering condition in case the cost exceeds that.

As far as decals, transfers, etc. I have no experience with that yet. But my gut feeling is the waterslide decals will leave a raised perimeter or "ridge" around them and eventually I imagine they will yellow over time or even peel. My recommendation would be the ink stamps or the dry transfers, both are offered through Portlines. Once applied, I would think a sprayed clear coat will protect them.


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## flyernut

Dry transfers are the way to go. I don't care for the water-slide ones at all. After applying, you can spray "Dul-coat" over the entire engine to protect the transfers, but it will leave a dull coating on your paint job, if that's what you want. On some of my re-lettering jobs I have not put anything over the transfers and they're still holding up.I do not recommend the ink stamping! You really need a lot of practice to get it right, and once you think you have it down pat, the minute you use it on your loco/tender, you screw it up! Then it's a repaint. I had the white ink pad,a bunch of rubber stamps, and after a lot of patience and practice, I gave up and put everything on ebay. Glad to see it go, too, lol. I'll send you a PM Matt with the address.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here's tender chassis on eBay which looks fair to good condition. Only missing the body. Yeah, I know that's the most important part. But the current price on this is about $2.00 and has a little more than a day remaining. Might be a good piece just for extra parts??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...582501?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item20cd231765


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## Big Ed

What a project it is, looks like you will need a bunch of parts.:thumbsup:

What color will it be?


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## imatt88

Don,

Yeah, thats my bid

Cheers, Ian


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## imatt88

Don,

Keep me posted on what you find this weekend

Cheers, ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Will do. Good luck on the eBay bid.


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## imatt88

Tender gone... got sniped


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It happens....been sniped myself quite often. Keep trying.....there's plenty of time. Restoring your engine shell will keep you busy for quite some time before you are ready to even think of powering the motor. Meanwhile, I am attending a show this weekend, next weekend and I believe nearly every week until the end of year. So there will be plenty of opportunities to find something. Have you looked for shows in your area?


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## gunrunnerjohn

imatt88 said:


> Tender gone... got sniped


You have to be a better sniper.


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## flyernut

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You have to be a better sniper.


I bid with 2 seconds to go...Haven't lost one yet, except to a original high bid..


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## norgale

You should go for this one and paint it. For $45 it's a steal and it's complete. Use the other one that you have for parts if any are needed. pete
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...749&pid=100011&prg=1005&rk=1&sd=140880582501&


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## imatt88

Pete,

$45 bucks with 13 bids, I doubt that I would get that one. Thanks for the info, though:thumbsup:

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

Ian, are you going to send your loco shell???


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## imatt88

Yup, waiting for the cash to mail it

Keep you posted,

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

imatt88 said:


> Yup, waiting for the cash to mail it
> 
> Keep you posted,
> 
> Cheers, Ian


Ok buddy. I have the blast media already, just waiting for a project. Remember, send the handrails, etc, and I'll work on them also. If the handrails I made for your 302 fit the royal blue, I'll make another set for the engine. I think you mentioned that the front handrails are missing. If the metal stock is the same diameter, no problem. I'll let you try and straighten out your cowcatcher, but if you use a plumbers propane tank to heat, I believe you can straighten out the front, if you go easy. There was a great article with pictures on how a guy fixed his badly bent cab on a old Lionel engine. Worked out great. It was in a Classic toy train magazine. Maybe you can search their site for the story.I won't prime the shell as if you take my suggestion, you'll just burn off the paint anyways.Don't ship flat-rate, it's expensive.. Ship priority.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

A word of caution -- I hope you are aware AF produced another Royal Blue that appears very similar but in O-Scale. I think the number was 556. Do not confuse it with the S-Scale version when bidding on a tender online.


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## imatt88

Don,

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind:thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here is a tender chassis that supposedly is for the Royal Blue, among others. I do not know for sure by looking ahttp://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FLYER-part-356-silver-bullet-363-circus-tender-frame-and-others-rare-/181020389978?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a25a7f25at it. Maybe other guys here can verify if it's the correct one.
Check it out and place a bid if so inclined...


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## imatt88

Don,

I looked all over and I could not find it. Bummer

I already got outbid on the auction you sent me...

Thanks,

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here is the eBay link. It does not say Royal Blue or 350. It states for a 356 Silver Bullet or 353 Circus engine, but should be the same part as a Royal Blue. Keep in mind, this is the tender chassis only -- no body, no wheels or trucks, no guts. Here is the eBay item number 181020389978 -- current bid is $2.75 and there is about 38 more hours left as of this posting.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...389978?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a25a7f25a


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## Nuttin But Flyer

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-194...034214?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35c1673926

This is another complete Royal Blue listed. Currently $31.00 with a bit more than 2 hours remaining. Not that you need the whole engine, but the extra parts may come in handy to have if you can snag it for a decent price.


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## imatt88

Don,

Found both auctions. Thanks:thumbsup:

Unfortunately, I missed them both. 

I'm always looking

Cheers, Ian


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## imatt88

*update: 15 Nov 12*

OK, well I got to tinker a bit tonight.

Just a few more pics

Right and left side riveted linkage
















the right side is bent bad. Any suggestions on how to remove these parts?

the "jack plate"(?) is that whats it called? Anyway, it has only two plugs, pretty basic 350, I'm guessing









the front of the engine, another bent linkage








I'm hoping to save the linkages, I'm not sure if they are even complete

Thats it so far, keep U posted

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Ian --

Looks like you have your hands full now. The jack plate will only have two leads as the reverse unit is located in the boiler shell rather than the tender, and the leads from the tender will only have a crimped "bullet-shaped" connecter on each lead end. If you need any of these, they are available at Port Lines pretty cheap -- much less than the cost to get them shipped to you. As far as the rivets holding the linkages, I guess you can simply drill them out. But you will need the correct rivets to reinstall them as well as the tool to crimp them properly. I have a riveting tool for the wheel trucks, couplers, etc. But I am unaware if it will work for this application. I'm sure someone else here will chime in with tips on how to proceed with this. You might be able to work with them while they remain connected by using a Dremel or similar tool to get the rust off and bring out the shine once again. You could always mask them at paint time. I'll try to remember to check my Royal Blue to see what linkages should be there and post photos for you. But you should be able to find photos online doing a search for it. Keep plugging away and keep us posted. :thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Sorry Ian, forgot to ask if you are still seeking a tender??


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## tjcruiser

As for the valve gear linkages ...

Given the severity of the rust, I would suggest drilling out the rivet (left/right), removing the linkages, and then cleaning them up with a stainless Dremel brush. As for the reinstall, you can either try to reproduce an original rivet (you'll need to track down the rivet, appropriate tools), or you could do something similar to what I did on my Lionel 259. See bullet-item 1 in this post, and then read up/down the thread for pictures ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=30266&postcount=43

Cheers,

TJ


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## imatt88

Don,

Yes, I'm still looking for a tender. I hope to snag one that is protypically correct for the 350.

Let me know if you find anything...

TJ,

I like your idea and I saw the pic of your restored loco. I think that is a good idea, and I'm going to try it.

Don,

So mine is missing the reverse unit? And its in the shell rather than the tender...?

I don't see any loose wires, so I'm wondering if miine even came with one

Well, keep you all posted,

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

imatt88 said:


> Don,
> 
> Yes, I'm still looking for a tender. I hope to snag one that is protypically correct for the 350.
> 
> Let me know if you find anything...
> 
> TJ,
> 
> I like your idea and I saw the pic of your restored loco. I think that is a good idea, and I'm going to try it.
> 
> Don,
> Ian, in the last picture of four that you posted, the e-unit is the thing on the front of the chassis with all the wires coming out of it. Your tender will not have a e-unit in it, just wires from the trucks to the e-unit for power.I don't have a 350 engine but from your pictures and my manuals, I can readily recognize the e-unit.
> 
> I don't see any loose wires, so I'm wondering if miine even came with one
> 
> Well, keep you all posted,
> 
> Cheers, Ian


Ian..
See my answer to some of your questions above.. The e-unit is the part with all the wires coming from it on the front of the chassis, picture 4.


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## flyernut

It also appears that you have all the linkage.


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## imatt88

Ok, I have an e-unit and all the linkage. Sounds good. Gives me a place to start

So, can I assume that AF engines get their power thru the tenders, unlike Lionel and Marx that use pickups underneath..

I never gave that point much thought, but the more I looked, the more it dawned on me..

This Royal Blue won't run until I get a tender for it...hwell:

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

imatt88 said:


> Ok, I have an e-unit and all the linkage. Sounds good. Gives me a place to start
> 
> So, can I assume that AF engines get their power thru the tenders, unlike Lionel and Marx that use pickups underneath..
> 
> I never gave that point much thought, but the more I looked, the more it dawned on me..
> 
> This Royal Blue won't run until I get a tender for it...hwell:
> 
> Cheers, Ian


You're right Ian. AF gets the power from the tenders. Early on the e-units were in the steamers boiler shell, then they started putting them into the tenders. Then theyput the e-units back in the boiler shells during the 5-digit period. Go figure.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Sounds like the guys here have already directed the correct summation to you.

Yes, you do have an "E"-unit, and it is located in the boiler. I saw it in your photos, so it's there. But in AF lingo, we call it a 'reverse unit'. Some guys here get chills when you call it an e-unit. I think that is a Lionel term that sometimes is used across the board of model trains.

Yep, you also will need that tender to get the power from the track to your engine. I'll keep watching --one will soon appear.


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## imatt88

reverse unit, got it:thumbsup:

I have some Lionel Alcos that I restored a few years ago, and I had a lot of help from TJ, Reckers, T-Man, and a few others...

e-unit was what it was called then....

Its all good


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## Kwikster

Looks like a pretty extensive, but worthwhile project. Looking forward to progress and finished photo's. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Carl


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## flyernut

*Royal Blue linkage*

Ian, ebay item # 321028112046, linkage for your Blue.. While you might not need/want it, it makes a good comparison of what you have.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Still searchin' for a tender for ya -- no luck yet. Just wanted to let you know we haven't forgotten you.


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## imatt88

Its all good. I've been pretty busy the last couple of days, so I have done absolutely nothing.:laugh:

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Found this --

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...551925?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item27cd16dbf5

It's a whole Silver Bullet Set for restore but the tender should be the same as your Royal Blue. Only problem is the steps on the tender appear to be broken off/missing. The price is currently $21.00 but is likely to rise making it inefficient to get. Use your judgement.....


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## Wicked_Silence

Ouch, I wish you luck in the restore project. I was lucky and found mine for cheap and the condition was great compared to some I've seen. The guys here are great at helping you thru this. I wouldn't have made it thru mine without them.


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## imatt88

Don,

I have it on my watch list, but with 6 bids, its probably out of my price range.

I might take a stab at it later.

Wicked,

I know, yours was a good thread to follow. These guys helped me restore some Lionel Alcos a couple of years ago.

These guys are an invaluable resource, they've taught me a lot.

I'm glad I'm back into trains


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## Nuttin But Flyer

2 hours left on that one -- $26.00 right now. Although, please note that it appeared to be missing the tender steps. There wil always be others so don't be compelled to jump on the first thing that comes along.


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## imatt88

Don,

Lost out on that one as well. We'll find something eventually

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

No problem -- you have time on your side. Wait for the right one.


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## flyernut

Ian, I'll be attending a train show Sunday. How much do you want to spend???


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## tjcruiser

Ian,

Any progress on the heat-bend to straighten the cowcatcher? I have a Lionel cast metal shell with a bend to the cab stairway, and I'm lookin' for a guinea pig (!) to try the heat bend method before (chicken me!) gives it a shot!

So ... you go first, OK ? 

TJ


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## imatt88

Loren,

About 30 bucks. I actually need two now

TJ, I haven't had time to work on the Royal Blue. My granddaughter has been staying with me since Thursday and she keeps grampa busy:laugh:

Don,

I stilll haven't shipped the shell to you. Life is getting in the way right now. I'll let you know when it ships....

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

imatt88 said:


> Loren,
> 
> About 30 bucks. I actually need two now
> 
> TJ, I haven't had time to work on the Royal Blue. My granddaughter has been staying with me since Thursday and she keeps grampa busy:laugh:
> 
> Don,
> 
> I stilll haven't shipped the shell to you. Life is getting in the way right now. I'll let you know when it ships....
> 
> Cheers, Ian


I'll keep an eye out for you...


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## imatt88

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Hey all, I was thinking, I have the method of heating up the cowcatcher, but any suggestions on HOW I should try and repair it?:laugh:

I didn't think of that before, I don't want to use a hammer...I'd hate to break it off..

I also dont want to try and bend it back with a pair of pliers when its hot, wouldn't that distort the original casting?

This is what I get for thinking

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It's better that you keep thinking about it, especially out loud to us here. That way you can gather all suggestions, then decide the best way to proceed. Unfortunately I have no experience at the heat-n-bend method....yet.

I'm curious, why do you need two tenders now?? Did I miss something? Was the original Royal Blue pregnant when you got her?


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## imatt88

Don,

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:, no, she wasn't pregnant.

I just picked up a Silver Bullet shell for 40 bucks on eBay that was in pretty good shape.

When it arrives, I'll have to post some pics.

Now I'll need two tenders and an engine unit

Cheers, Ian


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## Wicked_Silence

Just got back from the local train show. Picked up a few dozen straight track for my son's room. Hopefully its enough. The reason I'm posting here was because I saw a Royal Blue for grabs there, tender and engine and the guy wanted $70 for it. it did need some work as there was no wires from the tender or harness on the cab of the engine. It was also the 50 model tender with the bar that attaches to the bottom of the cab and not the version with the bar w/trailing wheels. Didn't know if it was a good price or not.


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## imatt88

wicked,

Yeah, thats about right for a engine/tender. I just need two of the 350/354 tenders right now..

Thanks for looking, though

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

Ian, no dice at the local train show.I did see about 5 Royal Blues, complete, and they were all restored, and very nicely, I may add.


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## imatt88

Loren,

Thanks for looking.:thumbsup:

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Ian, I'm getting confused, which happens at my age more than I like. You need two tenders, right? Complete or just the chassis or the bodies? Please let me know so I don't go looking for the wrong thing.


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## imatt88

Don,

Yup, two tenders now. Preferebly complete, but I'll take what I can get

UPDATE:

Got the rivets drilled out and the linkage removed. Getting it packed up for a trip to Williamson, New York for a good sandblasting\

Cheers, Ian


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## flyernut

imatt88 said:


> Don,
> 
> Yup, two tenders now. Preferebly complete, but I'll take what I can get
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> Got the rivets drilled out and the linkage removed. Getting it packed up for a trip to Williamson, New York for a good sandblasting\
> 
> Cheers, Ian


I be waiting....


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Someday I'll get my head examined to find out why I cannot remember things...but moving on. Here are the photos I promised of the Royal Blue tender I got for you. Sorry for the tardiness. Thought I took care of this already -- no wonder you never responded. Better late than never though...here they are. Let me know if you're still interested.


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## flyernut

Nice tender


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## imatt88

Don,

PM me. I'll take it!!:smilie_daumenpos:

Thanks a bunch!!

Cheers, Ian


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Do you want the whole tender or just the chassis/wheels and trailing link?


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