# New Layout in DCC. Turnouts to avoid?



## SolMan (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks to the internet, an immense amount of information is available to someone returning to the hobby after 40 years. AND, Thanks to the internet, an immense amount of information is available to someone returning to the hobby after 40 years. Therein lies my problem  Even after days of reading back issues of MR, and articles on the internet, plus watching scores of YouTube videos, I am even more confused than ever.
Because of the help available from many sources, the information about turnouts and DCC is overwhelming and often appears at odds. I think some of the problem is that much of the discussion centers around adapting DC layouts to DCC. I am starting out fresh and want to determine exactly which turnouts offer the most worry-free setup in DCC. I am not bothered by Atlas having a bulky mechanism next to the track. I am not interested in under-layout switch machines. I am interested only in ease of wiring and smooth operation. 
With these parameters in mind, can an experienced modeler suggest a solution to my quest? OR, at least state what particular turnouts might create an electrical problem with DCC?
Eternally grateful.

Thanks


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Turnout confusion*



SolMan said:


> Thanks to the internet, an immense amount of information is available to someone returning to the hobby after 40 years. AND, Thanks to the internet, an immense amount of information is available to someone returning to the hobby after 40 years. Therein lies my problem  Even after days of reading back issues of MR, and articles on the internet, plus watching scores of YouTube videos, I am even more confused than ever.
> Because of the help available from many sources, the information about turnouts and DCC is overwhelming and often appears at odds. I think some of the problem is that much of the discussion centers around adapting DC layouts to DCC. I am starting out fresh and want to determine exactly which turnouts offer the most worry-free setup in DCC. I am not bothered by Atlas having a bulky mechanism next to the track. I am not interested in under-layout switch machines. I am interested only in ease of wiring and smooth operation.
> With these parameters in mind, can an experienced modeler suggest a solution to my quest? OR, at least state what particular turnouts might create an electrical problem with DCC?
> Eternally grateful.
> ...


 SolMan;

As an experienced (40+ years) modeler; and a guy who builds his own turnouts, I can understand your confusion. There is a lot of hype out there regarding "DCC friendly/ready/whatever turnouts." The simple truth is that DCC (or DC for that matter) will work with ANY turnout. There are differences in quality, but turnouts have only a few physical "types" as far as how they are designed. 


Short answer:

Use Peco brand "Insulfrog" turnouts. They are ruggedly built and very reliable. They have a built in spring which allows reliable manual operation with no switch machine. If you have some turnouts that you can't reach, Peco offers a good twin-coil switch machine. It is designed to snap onto the bottom of the turnout, and does require a hole in the layout. Note: You mentioned Atlas turnouts, and their above the table switch machine, Some modelers like Atlas turnouts, I don't. In my opinion, both the turnout, and especially the switch machine, are not well made.



Longer explanation of some
of the stuff you have been reading.

The part that gets talked about a lot is the "frog." If you're not familiar with the term, the frog is the part where four rails come together, near the center of a turnout. Frogs come in two basic materials, plastic, and metal. Plastic frogs can't conduct electricity, of course, so they can't feed power to any locomotive wheels that are on them. This is only a problem on older locos with few wheels picking up electricity. They may stall on plastic(or unpowered metal) frogs. Newer locos tend to have all-wheel power pickup. The way to tell is to put one truck of a diesel up on a towel, or sheet of paper, sitting on top of the track. The other truck should be sitting on the rails, in normal fashion. If the loco runs like this, then it is likely getting power from all wheels. You can confirm this by putting the opposite trucks on the paper, and rails. If it runs again, it has pickup, from both rails, on either truck. aka. "All wheel pickup."
This type of loco will roll over a plastic frog with no stalling. Even when one truck's wheels are on the frog, the other truck is still supplying power.

Among metal frogs, things get a bit more technical. Some are electrically connected to the other rails; and some are not.
The first (connected) type is often called a "live" or "current routing" frog. With a current routing frog setup, power is supplied to either the main line, or the siding, depending on which way the turnout is set. This has the advantage of letting you park a loco on a siding, while another train passes on the main. Then, when the siding is selected, power will go to the parked loco. You can also use it as a form of safety device. A train approaching a turnout from the frog end will stop if the turnout is not thrown the right way for it to cross the turnout without derailing.
The other (not connected) type of metal frog. is isolated from the other rails, hence it is called an "isolated frog." (noteeco calls theirs an "Electrofrog" turnout. This type typically has a wire attached to it. The wire is connected to one, or the other routes of the turnout by an electrical switch operated by the switch machine. This type turnout/frog combination is often advertised as " DCC ready/friendly." This advertising is 99% hype and 1% truth. There is a rare circumstance where a metal wheel can bridge both the point and stock rails as it passes over the points of the turnout. This causes a short circuit as the point and stock rails are of opposite polarities electrically. With old fashioned DC power this was no problem since the short was momentary and seldom lasted long enough to trip a DC power pack's circuit breaker. With DCC, the circuit breakers are very fast acting to protect the electronics of a DCC system. Then IF you get one of these VERY RARE shorts, it may trip a breaker and stop operations until the breaker is re-set. 
Another advantage of an isolated, and powered, frog is that those older, short-wheelbase, limited pickup, locos won't stall on this type of frog. If you're not using that type of loco, then this does not matter.

So there you have it. The confusing world of turnouts! Hope I cleared up some of the confusion.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

This subject comes up about once a month. It is understandable
that someone out of the hobby for several years would
be confused about the DCC turnout issue. There are
sellers who add to the confusion.

In my opinion, as one with a room size DCC layout and
nine DCC locos, you can use ANY turnout on either 
DC or DCC. None of my locos pause, stall or have
flickering lights passing thru turnouts. I use the
Peco Insulfrogs.

The main concern that is used to justify claims of
which turnout is better for DCC centers around whether
you have Short wheelbase 4 wheel older locos or older
locos with less than all wheel power pickup. These
will sometimes stall or pause on plastic frogs. But they
would do so whether DC or DCC. 

Today's locos for the most part utilize all wheel
power pickup. If you select yours carefully you
can use any turnout on the market for your DCC
layout.

There are some features of various turnouts that
you should be aware of:

Because of quality design and manufacture some
turnouts are less derail prone than others.

I use Peco Insulfrogs. There simply are no
turnout caused derails on my layout. Atlas
has had some problems with derails.

Some turnouts such as the Peco Insulfrogs are
power routing. That means that the a spur connected
to one loses power when the points are set to straight.
Some use this feature when they want to park a loco
without power. In most cases, however, you would
want to use a track drop to your power bus for both
frog rails so both straight and divert tracks always
have power.

Some turnouts, such as the Peco Electrofrog have a metal frog that has power switched internally or externally. These are 
desirable if you have short wheel base locos or locos
that lack all wheel power pickup. It is necessary to
use an insulated joiner in the frog rails of these
to avoid short circuits.

Of primary importance when building a DCC layout
is the use of nickle silver tracks and maintain a
regular track and loco wheel cleaning schedule.
Clean track and wheels provide a constant electrical
pickup and thus smooth and dependable loco
movement.

Don


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## SolMan (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks Traction Fan and Don. I will take into account what you both offered in moving forward with my layout.


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