# Printable radius templates and starting with an oval?



## Eilif

Two quick questions from a newbie who is about to start laying track for the vey first time.

1) Is there a site where I can get free printable radius templates? 

2) If my layout is going to include switches later, is it ok to start with a complete flex-track-on-cork oval so that I -and especially my son- can start running trains while I build the rest? Should I maybe just tack down (not glue) the areas that I'll later have to cut out for switches?

This is aproximately the layout I'm building. I'm considering laying the big lower oval first.


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## Cycleops

Peco offer downloadable templates for all their turnouts https://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans you don’t say which scale you’re n but they do code 83 US specific track and turnouts. Fine and regular track/turnouts in N. I find them very useful.
You can tack the track down with track pins if you wish which can obviously be removed later.


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## mesenteria

Several sites offer printable templates for their turnouts, but I haven't heard or seen of curve radius templates in scale. Maybe they exist somewhere....

Could you just use a nail and string? Curves can have a fudge factor of 5% before they begin to compromise a track plan that literally fills the space. I would lay out a string between two nails on a board and then use a Sharpie to mark each inch over about 30". Then, placing your pivot nail carefully in the correct spot, tighten the string and sweep it in an arc. Mark the centerline at five or six places. Make your curved flex track conform to those fiver or six marks, and you should be in business.

Or, go to your builders' supply and get a 5' length of lath or furring strip. Cut it to length, drill an end-hole for a screw to serve as a pivot, and then measure out from that hole to 12" (if in HO) and drill a first hole. Mark and drill outwards an inch at a time until you get to the far end of the strip. Counter-sink each hole so that a sharpened pencil will easily fit into the hole and there is how you'll draw full arcs.

Don't forget to use that permanent marker to mark each hole's radius. Make sure you have them numbered correctly from the pivot point before you use the marker!!


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## Andy928

I don't understand part of it. There's one track going in the tunnel at the bottom and two coming out at the top. Is there a switch inside the tunnel?


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## cid

Hi Eilif,

Being a big fan of continuous running, I'm not seeing the potential to change elevations and still get back home.  Maybe it's by design.

FWIW, there is a lot of track in the tunnels. It needs access in case of derailment, etc. If you are up against a wall or corner, it could be a consideration.

I personally would go with mesenteria's compass. I've used those free yardsticks from Home Depot.

Good Luck!!
Cid


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## DonR

Nails and hammer around a train layout are not
a good idea. You can stabilize your temporary track
with just a few SMALL dabs of Elmer's glue or whatever
else you prefer. The 'permanent' sections may actually
be enough hold that you may not need to glue the
temporary sections. A wide blade 'putty' knife can easily
release it when you get your turnouts.

Don


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## Cycleops

mesenteria said:


> Several sites offer printable templates for their turnouts, but I haven't heard or seen of curve radius templates in scale. Maybe they exist somewhere....!


Peco offer printable templates for all their turnouts, straight and curved, check out my link. Of course they don’t do a template for the entire radius but that shouldn’t be necessary.


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## traction fan

*Start simple add on later + some general info*



Eilif said:


> Two quick questions from a newbie who is about to start laying track for the vey first time.
> 
> 1) Is there a site where I can get free printable radius templates?
> 
> 2) If my layout is going to include switches later, is it ok to start with a complete flex-track-on-cork oval so that I -and especially my son- can start running trains while I build the rest? Should I maybe just tack down (not glue) the areas that I'll later have to cut out for switches?
> 
> This is aproximately the layout I'm building. I'm considering laying the big lower oval first.


Eilif;

To your first question about downloading free curve radius templates, I'm giving the same slightly "Bad news/Good news" answer that others have. 1) No, I don't know of such a site; but 2) you don't need templates to draw a good curve. Just use the "pencil and nail in a yardstick" method that the other guys have suggested. It works fine. Its elementary geometry. You are drawing an arc around a center point. The nail will be poked into the measured center of the size curve you want. For example if you want to end up with an 18" radius curve. Pick a point on the board that is about where you want the center of your curve to be. Drive the nail through the 1" line on the yardstick (Just so it's not at the very end where it would be difficult not to split the wood) Drill a hole just big enough to hold the pencil tightly, at the 19" line on the yardstick. (the 18" radius you're after, minus that 1" inset for mounting the nail.) 
To avoid a potential kink at the point where straight track will meet curved track, use a large carpenter's framing square (The kind that looks like a big, steel, letter 'L'.) Lay one edge of the square right along the center-line of the straight track. The nail/center dot should touch the other arm of the steel square.
Doing this will keep the beginning of the curve square with the straight track, and prevent kinks being accidentally drawn into your full size track plan tracing on the table top. Using a drafting compass and triangle, or smaller square, you can do the same thing on a smaller scale track plan on paper, if you wish.

As for the second question about laying flex track now, and adding turnouts (track switches) later, yes you could do that, but you don't have to, and it might be better not to do it that way. If you know where the turnouts are going to end up, (On the separate, simpler, temporary, layout I'm going to suggest, rather than the track plan you have now.) I suggest you go ahead and mount the turnouts first, then add the flex track between them, and start running trains! The turnouts can just be set for the main line loop and left that way until you feel like adding the other track later.
Turnouts are usually the most complicated pieces of track on a layout. They need careful installation with the turnout's rails lined up as perfectly, and a straightly, as possible with the track that connects to them. If you are careful to get the turnouts laid correctly, the the rest of the track will be easier. For this reason, many experienced track planers, recommend laying the turnouts first. If you decide to add them later, you will need to cut them into the existing track, or remove a lot of track and then re-lay it.
Lastly, is there a switch/turnout inside the tunnel? Yes, and that's a bad thing. Turnouts are the site of most derailments. They also need more maintenance than other track. Putting one in a tunnel, or any hard to reach location is asking for trouble.

Actually, I'm going to suggest starting out with a separate, temporary layout, for your son to run trains on now. it can be a simple, one level oval layout with a passing siding and a spur or two for him to learn on. You can always add to it later.
Before taking that second step, and adding anything on, I recommend you read through at least the beginning part of the attached document, "Where Do I Start." You have some important decisions to make about what general kind of layout you want to end up with, and that is discussed early on in "Where Do I Start."
Some people, especially "newbies" and even more especially children, like layouts with lots of different track routes where the train can pop out from different places. The track plan you have now is that type. That type of layout may be the kind you like best, which will automatically make it the "Best" kind for you. The possible disadvantage of such a plan is that after you have seen the trains go around the various loops enough times, you may get bored with it. The other end of the track plan spectrum is a plan that operates more like a real railroad does. This kind is usually more satisfying in the long run, for most people. That may not be true for you, which is perfectly OK. You, and your son, are the only people who have to be satisfied with your layout. So I would start out with something very simple. Run trains on it, and then do some reading, thinking, and planning to decide what you want to build next.
Lastly, two questions for you. What scale are you going to use for your layout? How big a space do you have available?

Good luck, and have fun!

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos: 

View attachment Where do I start (revised version).pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


View attachment Model Railroad Terminology 2.1.pdf


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## Eilif

DonR said:


> Nails and hammer around a train layout are not
> a good idea. You can stabilize your temporary track
> with just a few SMALL dabs of Elmer's glue or whatever
> else you prefer. The 'permanent' sections may actually
> be enough hold that you may not need to glue the
> temporary sections. A wide blade 'putty' knife can easily
> release it when you get your turnouts.
> 
> Don


Thanks! 
That seems reasonable. 



Cycleops said:


> Peco offer downloadable templates for all their turnouts https://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans you don’t say which scale you’re n but they do code 83 US specific track and turnouts. Fine and regular track/turnouts in N. I find them very useful.
> You can tack the track down with track pins if you wish which can obviously be removed later.


It's an HO layout I'll check those out. Thanks!



mesenteria said:


> Several sites offer printable templates for their turnouts, but I haven't heard or seen of curve radius templates in scale. Maybe they exist somewhere....
> 
> Could you just use a nail and string? Curves can have a fudge factor of 5% before they begin to compromise a track plan that literally fills the space. I would lay out a string between two nails on a board and then use a Sharpie to mark each inch over about 30". Then, placing your pivot nail carefully in the correct spot, tighten the string and sweep it in an arc. Mark the centerline at five or six places. Make your curved flex track conform to those fiver or six marks, and you should be in business.
> 
> Or, go to your builders' supply and get a 5' length of lath or furring strip. Cut it to length, drill an end-hole for a screw to serve as a pivot, and then measure out from that hole to 12" (if in HO) and drill a first hole. Mark and drill outwards an inch at a time until you get to the far end of the strip. Counter-sink each hole so that a sharpened pencil will easily fit into the hole and there is how you'll draw full arcs.
> 
> Don't forget to use that permanent marker to mark each hole's radius. Make sure you have them numbered correctly from the pivot point before you use the marker!!


I'll give that a try. I think I may have a wood yardstick around here that might work well. 



Andy928 said:


> I don't understand part of it. There's one track going in the tunnel at the bottom and two coming out at the top. Is there a switch inside the tunnel?


There's a switch inside. The track plan is shown on the layout topic linked above.



cid said:


> Hi Eilif,
> 
> Being a big fan of continuous running, I'm not seeing the potential to change elevations and still get back home.  Maybe it's by design.
> 
> FWIW, there is a lot of track in the tunnels. It needs access in case of derailment, etc. If you are up against a wall or corner, it could be a consideration.
> 
> I personally would go with mesenteria's compass. I've used those free yardsticks from Home Depot.
> 
> Good Luck!!
> Cid


Yeah, the layout is more aimed at having two trains revolving at once than continuous running through both loops. 

The mountain will be hollow and the tunnel and the switches inside will be accessible.


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## Eilif

traction fan said:


> .... Just use the "pencil and nail in a yardstick" method that the other guys have suggested. It works fine. Its elementary geometry. You are drawing an arc around a center point...
> 
> ...To avoid a potential kink at the point where straight track will meet curved track, use a large carpenter's framing square (The kind that looks like a big, steel, letter 'L'.) Lay one edge of the square right along the center-line of the straight track. The nail/center dot should touch the other arm of the steel square...
> 
> ... I'm going to suggest, rather than the track plan you have now.) I suggest you go ahead and mount the turnouts first, then add the flex track between them, and start running trains! The turnouts can just be set for the main line loop and left that way until you feel like adding the other track later...
> 
> 
> ...Actually, I'm going to suggest starting out with a separate, temporary layout, for your son to run trains on now. it can be a simple, one level oval layout with a passing siding and a spur or two for him to learn on...


Thanks for all the advice and the document. I don't have the tunouts yet, mostly because of financial considerations but I could probably at least purchase the one that will be located on the curve.

I don't have room for a second mini layout. Right now my son is running on a small oval in the middle of the table, but it's hard for him to reach and it's about to be in the way of the building process.


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## mesenteria

I wish you'd figure out a way to make that left-side long tunnel less obstructive. It's already a small layout, as layouts go, and you should be able to enjoy watching your rolling stock to the extent possible. As a gentleman cautions above, it's a long tunnel. In fact, tunnels, and other places that make access essentially impossible, are as notorious for swallowing items of rolling stock as a laundry facility is of losing one sock. If the mountain is going to be open at the back, then it should present no problem of that kind, providing you don't mind moving the entire layout to get back to that face each time it happens.


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## Eilif

mesenteria said:


> I wish you'd figure out a way to make that left-side long tunnel less obstructive. It's already a small layout, as layouts go, and you should be able to enjoy watching your rolling stock to the extent possible. As a gentleman cautions above, it's a long tunnel. In fact, tunnels, and other places that make access essentially impossible, are as notorious for swallowing items of rolling stock as a laundry facility is of losing one sock. If the mountain is going to be open at the back, then it should present no problem of that kind, providing you don't mind moving the entire layout to get back to that face each time it happens.


The more I think about this the more I think you may be right. I do still want to have a tunnel coal mine in the mountain on the upper loop, but if I shift the mine workings to the rear corner (already planned to have them pass over the main upper loop) and keep the mountain mostly there in the rear-right corner I could start the tunnel halfway back the left side instead of where it currently is.


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## traction fan

*Turnout choices*



Eilif said:


> Thanks for all the advice and the document. I don't have the tunouts yet, mostly because of financial considerations but I could probably at least purchase the one that will be located on the curve.
> 
> I don't have room for a second mini layout. Right now my son is running on a small oval in the middle of the table, but it's hard for him to reach and it's about to be in the way of the building process.


Eilif;

OK. I understand you don't have room for a second layout. I'm also guessing that you like the track plan in your original post, and want to go ahead with that. Your choice, of course. May I ask, where you got your track plan? Is it one of those published by Atlas? 
You mentioned possibly buying a turnout that goes in a curve. Do you know what brand of turnouts you will use? I, and many others here,strongly recommend Peco brand turnouts. They are well designed, and ruggedly built. They seldom, if ever, cause derailments. You also mentioned that cost was an issue in obtaining the turnouts you will need for your layout. The cost of commercial turnouts is pretty even, and pretty high.Atlas are slightly cheaper than Peco, Walthers, and Micro Engineering. However they are also lower quality. In my opinion the small cost difference is well worth it to get a high quality, reliable turnout.

Please understand that any advice, opinions, suggestions, Etc. that I give you are just that. All decisions regarding your railroad, are, and should be, yours alone. All I try to do is furnish information, and recommendations based on my experience. I'm not out to decide anything for anybody.
If cost of turnouts is an issue, there is another option. It is much cheaper to make your own turnouts. The downside is the time it takes. Although building turnouts is not difficult, modelers, especially new modelers, tend to shy away from the idea. The perception is that this is too hard for a newbie to attempt. That's not really true, I once taught a ten-year old boy how, and his first attempt was a success. This, of course, is another thing for you to decide. Good quality commercial turnouts retail for about $30 ea. You can make an excellent turnout for less than $5. but it may take a few days, to a week, to make the first one, depending on how much free time you have available in your life. As you gain experience in making them, it can go a little faster, but it will still take much longer than buying ready-made.
If you want more information on building turnouts, or any other subject, just ask. The sticky thread "Help a new modeler to get started", at the beginning of this "Beginners Q&A section, also has further info.

Good luck and have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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