# New Arrival 1668E K-4 Torpedo



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Found this on another forum's for-sale area, it fills out my TMCC steamer ranks.  It's been in a box since 1998, so I may have to open it up and clean out the old grease. I oiled everything and it run OK, but I suspect it's still working against some old grease.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It looks in great shape.:thumbsup:

Is that a repaint? 
It almost looks like gray primer.
Is that gunmetal color?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

No repaint, it's almost NIB. The inside looks like it was never run, but the wheels are marked. It's the gunmetal color, that picture is the actual color. It was claimed to have been run briefly and then put in the box. The boxes and outer box are like new, not a mark on them. There are no marks on the engine or tender either, so I tend to believe that.

A cool feature is it has magnatraction, but they included a set of driver wheels with traction tires to help with the traction. At first I wondered who in their right mind would immediately rip the wheels off, but they have hex head screws holding them on, apparently it's a no-brainer to install the traction tires.

At first it didn't smoke, so I popped the top and opened up the smoke unit. Clean as a whistle, no burn, and the resistor measured good. Soaked the anemic wick with smoke fluid and put it together again, and I got smoke. I guess it needed a "prime". 

With the MTH Southern 4-6-2 in Green that I'm converting to TMCC, and the Pacific U.P. Command, I have my steamers covered.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John,

Nice loco!!! But I'm confused ...

Looks like that's a new (modern repro) 1668E, rather than an original prewar 1668E ? I didn't realize Lionel had issued a rerun. That said, I see some differences:

New has "wing" emblem above nose bullet, much like an original 238. The orig 1668 didn't have this.

New has actual handrails to the cab. Orig had only simulated/cast handrails.

New is 4-6-2. Orig was 2-6-2.

Driverods are a bit different.

New has actual window openings on front of cab. Orig did not.

Very nice, though. Classic look.

Here's a link to my prewar orig 1668, for comparison:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3373

Cheers,

TJ


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## Zeke (Feb 22, 2011)

Nice! Have fun with it!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They are supposed to have used the pre-war tooling to make the casting, and it looks very similar. Of course, the real handrails are the TMCC antenna, so that's kinda' required. The motor and drive appear to be totally different, this one has a PulMor motor mount horizontally in the rear with a shaft driving the center wheels. The other wheels are driven by the pushrods. Clearly, they took license with the tender, nothing like the pre-war one.  They even threw in a couple of plastic engineers. 

BTW TJ, I don't see a smoke unit in yours, did those have them?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

John you may convert me yet!
I enjoy the views and makes me wonder if I should be investing in more complicated Engines. So far I am just cheep, errr, inexpensive buyer. 

They didn't have smoke.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm working on converting more people to TMCC/Legacy, then when I need help, there'll be experts around. 

I guess having smoke is a plus for this one. I have to say, I wasn't impressed with the wick of the smoke unit. All it is is a little fiberglass mesh around the heat resistor. The diesel units I have fill the cavity around the resistor with batting.

Is that normal for steamers? I haven't taken any apart for a long time, just wondered if maybe I should add some batting to the chamber, it's basically empty.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Of course, the real handrails are the TMCC antenna, so that's kinda' required.


Really?!?!? That's amazing / very creative thinking !!!

(No smoke on old ones, echoing T-Man's comment.)

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think a lot of steamers use the handrails for the TMCC antenna if the receiver is in the locomotive. Some have everything in the tender, and then they isolate the shell and use it as the antenna. I also saw one that had a plastic coal load in a die-cast tender, the antenna was under the coal.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have done very little with smoke units. One thing for certain is to add pink fiberglass insulation.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting, do you just go up in the attic and steal a piece?  

I was thinking that the empty chamber with just the little wick around the heater seems a bit sparse. I haven't actually taken any of the other steamer smoke units apart to see how they do it, all of them have worked, so it didn't seem necessary. The fan driven diesel ones are packed with the fiberglass batting. I actually bought the replacement from Lionel for one of those, never thought I could use any old fiberglass.


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## Gerard (Dec 26, 2010)

My first thought when I saw this reproduction 1668E was that it was cool, but just doesn't look like a 1668E for some reason. I kept staring at it then I realized... it's actually more so a prewar 238E reproduction, isn't it? I could be wrong, but it looks to me like it was actually made from the original 238E casting with little change. Of course, the original 238E only had four drive wheels, so it does match the original 1668E more in that regard.

The cow catcher, cab ladders, extra handrails, and plate up by the smoke stack differ from the original 1668E but seem to match the 238E. The only difference I can find between this and the original 238E casting is that the original lacked the extra small cutout windows. I think this reproduction and the prewar 238E are also a bit taller/larger than the prewar Lionel 1668 and 1688 Torpedos, and that's what really made it look different to me at first glance.

Either way, it's an awesome reproduction, and it's cool to combine the classic torpedo shell with modern electronics and extra features.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, they claim it was made with the pre-war tooling of the 1668E, but I got it just because it was cool looking and has a really neat whistle.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Interesting question. I have an old-school 1668, and I've seen 238's and held them in my hands. Though I've never had a 1668 and a 238 directly side by side, my recollection is that the 238 is significantly heavier and bigger than the old-school 1668. Similar styling, but bigger for the 238.

TJ


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## Gerard (Dec 26, 2010)

It appears that Lionel made a modern 238E reproduction as well, which looks exactly the same as this 1668E aside from the paint scheme. The modern 1668E and 238E reproductions both look like they were made from the original prewar 238E tools, but they called one version the 1668E.

Just my thoughts, going purely on pictures.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Sidebar ...

Check out this fully-chromed original 238 offered on ebay. Sweet! I've never seen one like that before. Could have been a custom/promotional thing, as the seller suggests:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-PRE-WAR-...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=8357040360102886548

ebay item 140529412053 ... if the link doesn't work.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmm... The 238E appears to be a 4-4-2, that's quite different than the 1668E that is a 4-6-2. Body may be similar, but the powertrain isn't.


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