# DC to DCC conversion and Power to turnout switches



## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

I have removed the last DC controller from my layout which was supplying power to the switches which drive the turnout switch machines (The old school device).

What are my options to provide power to my turnouts while I make the conversion to a more DCC friendly turnout solution?

Thanks,
John


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

I assume you want to switch over to DCC decoders for the turnouts?

In the short term you can still run DC turnouts... is that what you're doing or do you want to switch everything over at once?

What turnout motors are you using now?


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Tom_C said:


> I assume you want to switch over to DCC decoders for the turnouts?
> 
> In the short term you can still run DC turnouts... is that what you're doing or do you want to switch everything over at once?
> 
> What turnout motors are you using now?


The layout is from the 1980's which I am going to be running till I can build myself a more modern layout. Meanwhile I am trying to use this as a learning opportunity to learn what is needed for DCC as I make the conversion. Currently I am running these...

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/atlas-ho-585-code-83-remote-switch-machine-right/

And I would like to keep them while I work on more important changes to the layout such as re wiring and Auto Reversers.

John


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Someone will be along to answer your question(s). I think you can get decoders for 3-wire motors, but have no experience with them (yet).


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Right now I have no lights or automation on my layout. Its just a mountain with trees and turnouts. I am reading that people are using computer power supplies to provide the different level of voltages that a layout uses. Is that becoming common practice? Is that something I should really consider?

At this time, I would think it would be best to just get power to the switches as they are and not convert them to DCC as I still dont have a way to power them unless they get power from track power.

John


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Converting fully to DCC would probably mean getting rid of the old style solenoids, although you might be able to find or build a DCC controller that works with those types. If you're a DIY type you can use a $6 arduino to run up to sixteen $1 servo motors, each controlling one turnout, and you only need a 5V power source for all of that. Of course that'll take a lot of work including rewiring and mounting new motors, so in the meantime it's best to just keep one of your DC power supplies handy to run the turnouts.

You can also look at the AC output printed on your existing power supply, and find something online that matches. For HO that will probably be somewhere around 16-20 VAC, but you don't have to match it exactly.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Atlas twin-coil switch machines*



johnfm3 said:


> The layout is from the 1980's which I am going to be running till I can build myself a more modern layout. Meanwhile I am trying to use this as a learning opportunity to learn what is needed for DCC as I make the conversion. Currently I am running these...
> 
> https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/atlas-ho-585-code-83-remote-switch-machine-right/
> 
> ...




John;

The switch machine shown on your modeltrainstuff link is an Atlas twin-coil design that, in one form or another, has been around for over 50 years. It's very simple, and has a wide range of acceptable power supply options. It will operate with DC or AC voltage in the 12-18 volt range. What it will not do is operate correctly, or even safely, when powered directly from the 15 volt modified AC output voltage of a DCC controller. Doing that can damage the DCC system.
If you want to operate your turnouts with a DCC system, you will need a device called a "stationary decoder." The way it works is that the DCC system sends out digital command signals riding on top of their 15 volts AC output voltage. These digital signals tell the decoders in locomotives what to do. They also tell the stationary decoders what to do. The stationary decoder then sends a simple analog voltage pulse to the switch machine which then moves the points of the turnout.

However, many modelers prefer to use their DCC systems only to control trains, not turnouts. Their turnouts are controlled "old school" fashion with push buttons, or toggle switches, mounted on a traditional control panel. So, which way do you want to control your turnouts?

If you want to do it with your DCC system, then NCE, Digitrax, and MRC all sell stationary decoders. Most will operate either DC stall motors, like the popular Tortoise motor, or Twin coil machines like Atlas or Peco. They should advertise this capability, and it's something you should check before buying. Many are "multi channel decoders, meaning that one decoder can operate more than one turnout, usually 3 or 4. You would need a decoder that has the capability of operating a Twin-coil machine, and you might want to use a multi channel decoder to handle several turnouts. 

On the other hand, If either temporarily, or permanently, you prefer to use the "old school" method, then all you will need is a control panel with two momentary push buttons per turnout, and a common power supply to feed electricity into all the buttons. That power supply can be an old DC power pack's accessory terminals, or one of those little black cube "wall wart" power supplies, like those used to recharge cell phones.
If you plan on permanent use of twin-coil switch machines, I recommend using a turnout control called a Stapleton 751D. It is a high quality electrical switch, and has a built in "CDU" (Capacitive Discharge Unit) The CDU prevents burning out coils by holding a button down for more than a second or two, which is all-too-easy to do. Also low quality turnout controls, like the blue button type from Atlas, have been known to short circuit internally, causing a twin-coil switch machine to emit smoke and die. A CDU can also save the coil, if the button shorts like this.

The attached file, "All about Turnouts", explains more about turnouts, switch machines, CDUs, etc.
If you plan on using Atlas turnouts, which I don't recommend! (I recommend using Peco turnouts instead, as they are much better quality) the second file, "Improving Atlas turnouts" explains how to correct most of the Atlas Snap Switches defects.

Hope that helps;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

View attachment All AboutTurnouts rev 5.pdf


View attachment Improving Atlas turnouts pdf version.pdf


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

johnfm3 said:


> Right now I have no lights or automation on my layout. Its just a mountain with trees and turnouts. I am reading that people are using computer power supplies to provide the different level of voltages that a layout uses. Is that becoming common practice? Is that something I should really consider?
> 
> At this time, I would think it would be best to just get power to the switches as they are and not convert them to DCC as I still dont have a way to power them unless they get power from track power.
> 
> John


Traction fan has given you a bunch of info to read. Keep one of your DC transformers and power your switches as is.

There are automation solutions, but I don't think they are all that common. JMRI is an open source solution, but from what I understand takes some work. Traincontroller software is another I've seen people use and looks pretty powerful if you want that kind of automation:

https://www.freiwald.com/pages/traincontroller.htm

For lights, the old school methods is probably fine. You turn them on and turn them off, not much to it.

So, I don't think the majority of stuff available is all that complicated or evolved, though as you're already doing, upgrading to DCC is probably a good choice.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*DCC & turnout control*



Shdwdrgn said:


> Converting fully to DCC would probably mean getting rid of the old style solenoids, although you might be able to find or build a DCC controller that works with those types.
> 
> Shdwdrgn;
> 
> ...


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Long term is to get this layout converted to Tortoise switch machines. But for now, I want to find a power supply system which will allow me to keep my Atlas Blue double sided switches and twin-coil switch machines.

I dont want track power running my accessories. I want to keep those items separated.

So what are my options for providing power to my Atlas switches?


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Tom_C said:


> Traction fan has given you a bunch of info to read. Keep one of your DC transformers and power your switches as is.
> 
> There are automation solutions, but I don't think they are all that common. JMRI is an open source solution, but from what I understand takes some work. Traincontroller software is another I've seen people use and looks pretty powerful if you want that kind of automation:
> 
> ...



Keeping an old dc controller maybe my only option for the time being. I was just trying to clear space on my layout area dedicated to the controllers.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Any wall-wart of the proper voltage will do the trick.

One other thing. I only currently run a holiday layout, and I use Azatrax products to run my signals and block control for turnout automation. It's little pricey, but it's more or less 'plug and play' for what I want to do. You can look in my posting history for some stuff I've done.

I also suggest you look at Traction_Fans history, he has a plethora of docs with a bunch of information, which is also posted in some of the sticky threads at the top of the various forums... and he's not alone, there's a lot of stuff in the sticky threads.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Thanks for the guidance everyone. John


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Computer power supply?*



johnfm3 said:


> Right now I have no lights or automation on my layout. Its just a mountain with trees and turnouts. I am reading that people are using computer power supplies to provide the different level of voltages that a layout uses. Is that becoming common practice? Is that something I should really consider?
> 
> At this time, I would think it would be best to just get power to the switches as they are and not convert them to DCC as I still dont have a way to power them unless they get power from track power.
> 
> John




John; 

I don't see any reason for you to buy a computer power supply just to provide voltages for your model railroad. That could probably be done, but there are simpler ways. You say that right now you simply want to get power to the "switches"/turnouts. That's fine. You simply need some power supply that provides 14-20 volts either AC or DC. If you have one of your old power packs, that's ideal. Just use the AC "accessories" terminals as your turnout power supply. Another power supply is one of those little black cube things that plug into a wall outlet and are used to charge cell phones, or power other electronic gadgets around the house. They are nicknamed "wall warts." Again, any output from one of these should be in the 14-20 volt range and it doesn't matter whether that AC or DC. The output voltage is usually printed on the outside of a wall wart. Besides power, you will also need some kind of buttons to control the turnouts. Do you still have those blue button turnout controls that come with Atlas Snap Switches? for that matter, do you have Atlas switches, and are they "Snap Switch" type turnouts, or "Custom Line" turnouts? The custom line ones may not come with either blue button controls or twin-coil switch machines. It would help to know what you have so we know what we're dealing with. Can you post a photo of one of your turnouts? Also a photo of any turnout control buttons you have?
Do you have a DCC system yet? If you do, is it hooked up to the track now? You should not try to operate your turnouts with track power. If your track power is coming out of a DCC controller, then operating turnouts from that track power could damage the DCC controller. The turnouts need one of the preceding separate power supplies.

Please see my prior response, including the attached pdf files, for more information.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Automation? Maybe? Maybe not?*



Tom_C said:


> Traction fan has given you a bunch of info to read. Keep one of your DC transformers and power your switches as is.
> 
> There are automation solutions, but I don't think they are all that common. JMRI is an open source solution, but from what I understand takes some work. Traincontroller software is another I've seen people use and looks pretty powerful if you want that kind of automation:
> 
> ...




Tom_C;

I'm not at all sure the OP is asking about automating his railroad, or just considering buying a surplus computer power supply to get voltage for turnouts, and maybe structure lights, etc. It's not easy to tell.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Stickys*



Tom_C said:


> Any wall-wart of the proper voltage will do the trick.
> 
> One other thing. I only currently run a holiday layout, and I use Azatrax products to run my signals and block control for turnout automation. It's little pricey, but it's more or less 'plug and play' for what I want to do. You can look in my posting history for some stuff I've done.
> 
> I also suggest you look at Traction_Fans history, he has a plethora of docs with a bunch of information, which is also posted in some of the sticky threads at the top of the various forums... and he's not alone, there's a lot of stuff in the sticky threads.


Tom_C;

The sticky thread that has all my files, and contributions from other members, is the "Help a new modeler to get started" thread at the top of the "Beginner's Q&A" section of the forum. There are two other sticky threads adjacent to that one which also have some useful info, though the electrical one seems a bit to complicated for beginners, to me.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

johnfm3 said:


> Long term is to get this layout converted to Tortoise switch machines. But for now, I want to find a power supply system which will allow me to keep my Atlas Blue double sided switches and twin-coil switch machines.
> 
> I dont want track power running my accessories. I want to keep those items separated.
> 
> So what are my options for providing power to my Atlas switches?


John;

The same options we have suggested to you. A DC power pack, or a wall wart power supply. If your eyes haven't glazed over from all the advice we've been dumping on you, you might look at another thread here on the HO forum about "Power Pack for Atlas remote switches" by caldwest. It covers some of the same issues.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

John, don't fret over it..Keep your switch machines if you like. They're certainly nicer in appearance that the bulky older type...It's only a matter if you don't mind the noise they make. Use your existing power pack AC to power them. 
Go ahead and convert your layout to DCC (I love my NCE PowerCab)..If you have gaps in your track from analog DC block control, merely close those gaps (solder may be enough), hookup the DCC throttle (2 little wires to track from DCC panel rear) and, other than whether or not you have a reverse loop somewhere, let em roll !! 
You can modify your switch track control later on after you get the jist of your new throttle.
Remember this: All DCC locos come with factory default 3 as their address..You can use the number on the sides of cabs to be their new addresses. You'll have to learn how to do this kind of programming at the get go soon as you have 2 or more locos. If you don't they'll both run at the same time and recieve the same exact programming you've given one..M


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

traction fan said:


> Tom_C;
> 
> I'm not at all sure the OP is asking about automating his railroad, or just considering buying a surplus computer power supply to get voltage for turnouts, and maybe structure lights, etc. It's not easy to tell.
> 
> Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:





johnfm3 said:


> Right now I have no lights *or automation* on my layout. Its just a mountain with trees and turnouts. I am reading that people are using computer power supplies to provide the different level of voltages that a layout uses. * Is that becoming common practice? Is that something I should really consider?*
> 
> At this time, I would think it would be best to just get power to the switches as they are and not convert them to DCC as I still dont have a way to power them unless they get power from track power.
> 
> John


Traction_Fan, I was just addressing a comment to provide information, not suggesting anything.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

I am running a NCE Twin DCC system for the track, and JMRI on a Macmini so I can use a 11in tablet and my cell phone for controllers. I really have NO interest in hand controllers such as the hammer heads. I will be adding a NCE power house controller and 5 amp separate booster to this layout in the future. Which is why I am not worried about converting my turnouts at this time.

Due to the limitations of my DCC config as it is currently, it sounds like any 14v to 20v power brick will do the trick for turnout control to get me running again. No one has said to modify it with resistors, light or anything. So I will look into one of those to get power to the turnout twin coil setup and hook it straight up.

I just want to get things hooked up and working again as simple as possible which as someone suggested maybe to re hook up a DC controller again. This being as I have larger issues to address where my funds can be better spent.

The only reason for thinking about the computer power supply is first I have a bunch of them around my house. Second, planning for the future upgrades to my layout which will include turn table control, led lights, and turnouts.

Again, I first have some track repair to make. In a prior thread, I discussed consolidating 2 lines of track into a single mainline making my oversized loop into a dog bone (single mainline with a reversing loop at each end). Plus I need to add 48x18inch of layout space to the side. And a 12ft x 2ft staging yard on the back edge. All of that before I change over my turnouts to something more modern.

John


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

johnfm3 said:


> I am running a NCE Twin DCC system for the track, and JMRI on a Macmini so I can use a 11in tablet and my cell phone for controllers. I really have NO interest in hand controllers such as the hammer heads. I will be adding a NCE power house controller and 5 amp separate booster to this layout in the future. Which is why I am not worried about converting my turnouts at this time.


Holy CRAP John. Next time tell us you're an expert! 

Just kidding, but you're doing pretty well! Now, post up some of the stuff you've done, so the rest of use can learn something! 

Seriously, I'd like to read about your JMRI stuff.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Tom_C said:


> Holy CRAP John. Next time tell us you're an expert!
> 
> Just kidding, but you're doing pretty well! Now, post up some of the stuff you've done, so the rest of use can learn something!
> 
> Seriously, I'd like to read about your JMRI stuff.


I am a NOOB. And totally scared to do my own soldering on my classic models. I tend to pay people for that work... :-(

More so, you have heard of Book Smart, well I am YouTube smart. I have been collect parts for 5 yrs now trying to prep for building my dream layout. And watching a lot of youtube. And what I have learned is that alot has changed since my childhood double loop layout in the 1980s. I bought this as a starting layout where I could start practicing what I have learned.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

Well, I am both book smart (with trains, in some ways), and have some experience in hardware because of my job experience.

Take a few piece of old track or old circuit boards and practice soldering. Get some stuff like solder wick and just play around soldering and un-soldering stuff. You will be an old hand before you know it. But, don't breath the fumes... unless you're into that


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Tom_C said:


> Seriously, I'd like to read about your JMRI stuff.


To be honest, its really not that fancy. A simple install, and configured it to listen to my NCE USB module.

Its actually going to be a bit problematic as when it comes to buying DCC specialties PSX-AR auto reverse's and PSX-1 circuit breakers, I wont be able to easily program them via JMRI. According to the Vendor who I spoke with. There are plans to address this in the future.

Of course a wifi network and WiThrottle automatically starts when JMRI starts. And thats setup to start up when I start my computer.

I have spent alot of time learning about configuring my decoders by decoder pro.

John


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

John

Not at all sure what you might have read or seen
on Youtube, but, other then 'fine tuning' loco decoders,
there is nothing programmable in a DCC system,
with or without JMRI. And decoder fine tuning is optional,
and not necessarily important for many operators.

You can add wireless controllers and the JMRI stuff
but that's about all of the adjustments you can do.
Reverse loop controllers and circuit breakers may
have a 'sensitivity' adjustment but that's
done with a screwdriver; there is nothing
to program. That's why DCC is such an easy
system to set up and to use. Except for track
drops every 6 feet or so there is no need for a lot
of wiring, power districts, additional breakers
and other 'goodies' unless you have
a 'club' size layout.

Youtube is a great tool, and we've all benefitted 
from it greatly. 
But, it also can get overly techie and totally confuse
the new guys.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I've also seen a lot of things on YouTube that were worthless or flat out wrong. You need enough knowledge to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff!


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Regarding utilizing youtube as a source of information, I do believe I am educated enough to analyze different forms of information from many different sources and make a decision on my own. More so I think I know when to take what I understand and meet up on a forum such as this and ask questions for a better idea or path based on others experience where I can interact about as close to in-person as possible.

As too this thread, I am going to setup my old DC controller for the time being until I am ready to roll out a better power solution. I will probably go about the computer power supply solution. Right now I have more important changes to the layout ahead of power.


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

ive been on the youtube binging of JMRI and ordered up flex track, a cheap $20 dcc decoder for a train (don't need any bells and whistles yet... still to experiment..)..
have the raspberry pie, Arduino mega (screwed up as I thought I got the shield but got 2 more Arduino uno's..whoops) and will be setting something up eventually.

I too am on the hunt to learn what turnouts to get. I like how you can fire up the jmri app and control a full route in one click. 

I have the Pie, windows 10 surface pro, ipad and android phone to bea ble to sit back and control..once I learn all of this too!!! hah..


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

johnfm3 said:


> As too this thread, I am going to setup my old DC controller for the time being until I am ready to roll out a better power solution. I will probably go about the computer power supply solution. Right now I have more important changes to the layout ahead of power.


Yup - controlling your trains using DCC doesn't mean you have to change the way you control turnouts, as that's entirely independent. It can entirely be left the way it was running off an old DC power supply you already have.

Unless you *want* to change things up...


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Turnout recommendations*



Riggzie said:


> ive been on the youtube binging of JMRI and ordered up flex track, a cheap $20 dcc decoder for a train (don't need any bells and whistles yet... still to experiment..)..
> have the raspberry pie, Arduino mega (screwed up as I thought I got the shield but got 2 more Arduino uno's..whoops) and will be setting something up eventually.
> 
> I too am on the hunt to learn what turnouts to get. I like how you can fire up the jmri app and control a full route in one click.
> ...


Riggzie;

Among commercial turnout brands, You can't go wrong with Peco. They are very reliable & seldom, if ever, cause any derailments or other problems., Peco offers a full range of turnout types, including wye turnouts, and curved turnouts. Pecos also have rugged construction.

Micro Engineering turnouts are a very close second in overall quality. They are actually better than Peco in terms of realistic appearance, but offer only a #6 right, a #6 left in N-scale, and, in HO-scale only, a #5 compressed yard ladder. They are also not as rugged as Peco, and require reasonable care in handling during installation.

Most of the turnouts on my own layout are scratchbuilt, but I do have a few Peco, and Micro Engineering turnouts, and both brands are excellent. To learn more about turnouts read the attached file, "All about turnouts." 

By the way, "route control", which lines up all the turnouts for a desired route at once, is not limited to any form of digital control. I have route control on my layout and the most sophisticated components involved are two capacitors and a few diodes. The concept of route control goes back way before the digital age. Of course you can use your "pie" system if you like, it's your railroad. To me pie is just something to eat, hwell:

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

View attachment All AboutTurnouts rev 5.pdf


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

It sounds like the Tortoise switch machines have a decoder in them with a DCC address which can be configured from the DCC hand unit to allow automated route control from JMRI as well as just general switch control. In my case with 2 reversing loops, once the DCC Specialties Auto-Reverser detects the short, it can throw the switch (assuming its DCC addressed) in the trains favor.

For this as the primary reason, I will be migrating away from my twin-coil switches and moving to Tortoise switch machines as one of the last changes on my layout. As I have said earlier in this thread, I have some physical track issues to address first.

An example of my issue to fix. I have a turn out that no matter which direction the switch is thrown, my E7 will not go straight thru but turn off and derail. But that is not for this thread, I am sure I will start a new thread when i go into track repairs.


Thanks
John


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Traction Fan, you have been a huge wealth of information. I now have a bunch of reading material for looking into turnout control. In the future I will be going DCC controlled turnouts, even I still have a switch board with momentary switches. And you pointed out something else I didnt know, that there are multi turnout controllers. That will be great for my train yard switches where I have 4 of them in 1 spot. I can use that and DCC to setup route control to make sure the switches are properly set for the route the train is going in and out of the yard.

For the time being I am going to run my old DC controller to drive the turnouts. And I have decided on a future plan as well.

The decision as to my solution for my power needs for into the future (and its not expensive at all) is something the RC community does which is use Server Quality (mainly HPs) power supplies for charging the 24v needs. And bitcoin miners use them for their power needs. As such breakaway boards have been designed and built to start them up without being plugged into servers.

So for under $40, I am going to have a 1200watt 12v power supply that is not going to deviate voltage levels under the load I am going to give it. I doubt my peak Amp draw will be 15A for this layout. Really what I am getting here is stability more than quantity. And $40 is cheap. And I dont have to modify anything, just plug the board into the power supply, add the wires from the layout switches to the breakaway board terminals, and plug the power supply in to my APC UPS which protects my train layout from brownouts due to poor power where I live. I could have used ATX power supplies, but under minor load changes the voltage changes too much for my wants unless I added a 12v UPS and conditioner on the output to ensure 12v at all times.

Once its here, I will get pictures.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*I hope you got the messages!*



johnfm3 said:


> Traction Fan, you have been a huge wealth of information. I now have a bunch of reading material for looking into turnout control. In the future I will be going DCC controlled turnouts, even I still have a switch board with momentary switches. And you pointed out something else I didnt know, that there are multi turnout controllers. That will be great for my train yard switches where I have 4 of them in 1 spot. I can use that and DCC to setup route control to make sure the switches are properly set for the route the train is going in and out of the yard.
> 
> For the time being I am going to run my old DC controller to drive the turnouts. And I have decided on a future plan as well.
> 
> ...


John I hope you get this message. three others have not shown up in this que as they should have. They were about tortoise machines not having DCC decoders. Did you receive any of them? I'm tired of re-typing the same long, clever,( I think anyway) message and very frustrated by their disappearance.

Short form:

Tortoise= no DCC decoder 

Snail = yes DCC decoder 

Hare = plug on DCC decoder fits Tortoise

Traction Fan


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

cv_acr said:


> Yup - controlling your trains using DCC doesn't mean you have to change the way you control turnouts, as that's entirely independent. It can entirely be left the way it was running off an old DC power supply you already have.
> 
> Unless you *want* to change things up...


for me, I am starting from NEW so I have nothing to change up!!! HAH... I am waiting on a 5 pack of Atlas 100 Flextrack to get started... 

my plan is 

Make a big oval
Fire up each train on DC and see which one I like the best
Install Digitrax economy $20 dcc decoder
get oval working on dcc
figure out turnouts to use and setup




traction fan said:


> Riggzie;
> 
> Among commercial turnout brands, You can't go wrong with Peco. They are very reliable & seldom, if ever, cause any derailments or other problems., Peco offers a full range of turnout types, including wye turnouts, and curved turnouts. Pecos also have rugged construction.
> 
> ...


THx will read up on that...

I know there are many ways to do things...
and while I also agree, Pie is best eaten...
I am a techie gadget freak and this Arduino/Pie way will get my foot in the door at a lower cost price and I do see a commercial controller brought in at some point.
for me is to get the 3 track layout I hope to get going, get all 11 locos converted to dcc with cheap decoders.... get turnouts controlled as well....
Then I plan on a very nice smoking/sound/whistle full loaded steam locomotive and move from there....

I am planning on bringing my 13y old in on all of this and realism, terrain, trees, water, etc are all not something im banking on ever doing but as he ages, he may want too... don't know... but this would be our time together. Albeit we spend a lot of time together, including kicking and punching each other on the Krav Maga mat!!!!!! HAH:cheeky4:


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

traction fan said:


> John I hope you get this message. three others have not shown up in this que as they should have. They were about tortoise machines not having DCC decoders. Did you receive any of them? I'm tired of re-typing the same long, clever,( I think anyway) message and very frustrated by their disappearance.
> 
> Short form:
> 
> ...


I dont recall seeing the messages your speaking of, but I am reading this one and now needing to re investigate for options at that time. It looks like you have some suggestions such as SNAIL and HARE. I have never heard of them but maybe those are what I need/want to look at.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Riggzie,
I had been waiting for 5 yrs and collected way too much stuff to let it sit much longer. I will say this, I was to be OK with just cheap decoders till I fired up my InterMountain F5 Southern Pacific Black Widow units with LokSound. OMG I fell in love. Those things were the coolest thing ever. Then Firing up my Union Pacific Spirit of 76 SD40-2 and hearing the additional sounds it made, sold me.

Now I am trying to find economical ways to get all my loco's to sound.

John


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

johnfm3 said:


> Riggzie,
> I had been waiting for 5 yrs and collected way too much stuff to let it sit much longer. I will say this, I was to be OK with just cheap decoders till I fired up my InterMountain F5 Southern Pacific Black Widow units with LokSound. OMG I fell in love. Those things were the coolest thing ever. Then Firing up my Union Pacific Spirit of 76 SD40-2 and hearing the additional sounds it made, sold me.
> 
> Now I am trying to find economical ways to get all my loco's to sound.
> ...



i hear ya. family is out so I thought Id fire up and connect the track to make a circle and see what train runs the best... 11 trains and not 1 worth a damn. might just need oil from sitting but man am i dissappointed. ive got 1930's-1940s toys im gonna sell and some lionel stuff from that era in O gauge to get $ to buy a new train or 2. then maybe someday try and fuss/care with these old trains...


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Riggzie said:


> i hear ya. family is out so I thought Id fire up and connect the track to make a circle and see what train runs the best... 11 trains and not 1 worth a damn. might just need oil from sitting but man am i dissappointed. ive got 1930's-1940s toys im gonna sell and some lionel stuff from that era in O gauge to get $ to buy a new train or 2. then maybe someday try and fuss/care with these old trains...


I would suggest show case what you have here on this forum. May find its worth keeping, tearing down, cleaning, and re lubricating.

I am purposely buying Life-Like Proto 2000 E series locomotives from the 1980's due to model quality. In my opinion Athearn Blue Boxes with the motor in the middle have been a really good running loco's. In my fleet of 20 loco's, thats the majority. Out of 20 loco's I have less than 7 new ones.

John

John


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Sound car, sound dummy unit, sound not on board*



johnfm3 said:


> Riggzie,
> I had been waiting for 5 yrs and collected way too much stuff to let it sit much longer. I will say this, I was to be OK with just cheap decoders till I fired up my InterMountain F5 Southern Pacific Black Widow units with LokSound. OMG I fell in love. Those things were the coolest thing ever. Then Firing up my Union Pacific Spirit of 76 SD40-2 and hearing the additional sounds it made, sold me.
> 
> Now I am trying to find economical ways to get all my loco's to sound.
> ...




John; 

Equipping a bunch of locomotive with sound is very expensive, no doubt about that. I don't own any ESU LokSound decoders but they have a reputation for unusually good sound, and higher than average prices. 
There are alternatives to mounting a sound decoder and speaker in every locomotive, or disposing of all your DC locos and buying a new fleet of ESU loksound-equipped engines. 

One is a sound car. The DCC decoder, and speaker, are mounted in a car, and that car is coupled right behind the locomotive. There are two variants of this basic idea. For diesels, a largely-hollow "dummy" unit towed behind the motor-powered locomotive can provide the sound. For steam, a tender can do the same job, provided it has a front coupler rather than a drawbar to connect it temporarily to any steam locomotive. The steam locos would also need rear couplers installed to be able to switch tenders.

Some, mostly older, steam loco/tender combinations pick up power from one rail with the loco's wheels and power from the other rail with the wheels of the tender. Many recent production models pick up power with nearly all the wheels on the locomotive and all the tender wheels as well. This configuration would be necessary for the "roving tender" idea to work.

It would be possible, but labour-intensive, to retrofit all-wheel pickup to older steamers. Using this system, one or two second diesel units or steam loco tenders can be coupled onto whatever locomotiv(s) are pulling a train. Most of your locomotives could remain "mute", without decoders or speakers. This would save a lot of money, and the extra effort required to add sound to lots of locomotives.

Another system, which I intend to use, is having the sound decoders and bigger & better-sounding speakers mounted to the layout, but not in the locomotives.

All these alternatives involve compromise. If you are particular about having the exact sound produced by a turbocharged SD-45's prime mover come out of your SD-45 lettered for a railroad that bought all their SD-45s with turbochargers, then you're pretty well stuck with having decoders and speakers in each locomotive.

I'm an old, half deaf, guy who only wants some chugg chugg and woo woo from any of my steamers and a grrrrnnn wahn wahn from my diesels. My favorite locomotive type, electrics, didn't make all that much noise in real life, and there are DCC decoders with sounds recorded from electrics, so I'll settle for three decoders, 1 steam, 1 diesel, and 1 electric, along with as many surplus desktop amplified speakers as needed.

Track detection circuits for signals can double as speaker sound "conductors" in the symphony orchestral sense, rather than electrical, or railroad employee, conductors. They can have the sound move along with the locomotive.
Remember too that I model in N-scale, and fitting a sound decoder and speaker into all my "filled-solid-with-frame/weight locomotives does not appeal to me any more than it does to my wallet. I have a lot of locomotives!

Another thing about onboard sound, that I've read multiple times on this forum, IT'S NOISY! 
After the initial "gee whizz" effect fades away, a small group of sound-generating model locomotives becomes a cacophony of irritating noise to many folks. So much so, that they tend to turn their expensive sound off most of the time. So, you might want to ease into sound gradually. 

regards;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*The Tortoise and the Hare (+escargot) 4th attempt!*



johnfm3 said:


> I dont recall seeing the messages your speaking of, but I am reading this one and now needing to re investigate for options at that time. It looks like you have some suggestions such as SNAIL and HARE. I have never heard of them but maybe those are what I need/want to look at.




John;

The popular "Tortoise" Stall motor switch machine, sold by Circuitron, does NOT have a DCC decoder inside it. It runs on plain old DC power and is typically controlled by a simple DPDT toggle switch on a control panel. Circuitron also makes a different DC stall motor switch machine called a "Snail." The Snail DOES have a DCC decoder built-in. There is also a third device called a "Hare." This is sold by a different company called "Digital Solutions.com?" The Hare is a plug on DCC decoder designed to connect directly to the Circuitron Tortoise machine. There are two revisions of the Hare. The new Rev.II Hare has a digital feedback capability, which tells you which way the turnout has been thrown. The two microswitches inside every Tortoise can do the same thing, along with changing frog polarity, operating line-side signals, and panel indicators. They do it the old fashioned way with wires, rather than digital transmissions, however.

regards;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Riggzie (Dec 24, 2019)

johnfm3 said:


> Riggzie said:
> 
> 
> > i hear ya. family is out so I thought Id fire up and connect the track to make a circle and see what train runs the best... 11 trains and not 1 worth a damn. might just need oil from sitting but man am i dissappointed. ive got 1930's-1940s toys im gonna sell and some lionel stuff from that era in O gauge to get $ to buy a new train or 2. then maybe someday try and fuss/care with these old trains...
> ...


this is the mix...


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

traction fan said:


> John;
> 
> Equipping a bunch of locomotive with sound is very expensive, no doubt about that. I don't own any ESU LokSound decoders but they have a reputation for unusually good sound, and higher than average prices.
> 
> ...


Ok, so even though this is really off topic of the current thread, I will share my opinion. For starters I am not running Steam loco's at all, only diesel.

Also keep in mind the power need to run a bunch of Sound equip loco's. As such I am balancing out the sound loco's vs just dcc equip. As I only have 3A DCC system currently which is in need of help due to a power drain.

You are very correct about the financial cost of running LokSound. I will say I prefer LokSound over Tsunami2. In the stock configuration, LokSound has a cool feature where you can turn on and off the engine sound via start up and shutdown sequence. Where the Tsunami2 had to be re configured for this. The Tsunami2 has a something I wish LokSound had and that is select-able alt volume so when it is bothering me due to being loud, I can run the alt volume settings which reduce it quite a bit.

I am not running all LokSound, as for my Proto 2000 E series, I am looking at running a MRC style sound decoder for $40 each which is much cheaper than a LokSound by a savings of almost $80 per unit. And it is a bolt in option which requires NO modification to the loco chassis. And no soldering.

I have no interest in getting rid of my older fleet as I have alot of really cool loco's which are hard to get a hold of and will be cool to see running again such as my original Athearn Spirit of 76 SD40-2. My proto 2000 E series loco's. And of course my Southern Pacific 1984 Olympics SD40's.

Some of my F and E unit ABA set's, I may only sound equip the Dummy B unit with dual speakers. I even considered moving the dummy unit configuration to the front A unit shell, and putting the sound in that with the B unit being powered.

But sound is totally worth the effort in my opinion. I am just not in a spot to go all in at this time. As such I am working around that want with what i am willing to accept for the time being.

Something else I really dig is while my sound equip loco's sit idle on the track with power, they make random sounds related to various maintance work being done such as greasing, wrenching, and fueling. So this will be really cool when I have a bunch of loco's sitting in the repair yard for work to be done. The only thing I wish my Tsunami2 sound decoder would do is set the default volume low and Alt volume in the high range.

Thanks for the wisdom,
John


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Riggzie said:


> this is the mix...


I may be wrong, but I see several Athearn Blue Box which in my opinion are always worth keeping. I believe that enough that I am putting in the time to convert mine to DCC. May not be as accurate as other models, but I have seen them to be a good solid running unit. My oldest Blue Box is my child hood one from 1983 which is a Southern Pacific F7 A unit. And I have converted it to a NON sound DCC setup and run it on my layout.

It also looks like your Pennsylvania RR E series maybe a Proto 2000. Note that in its day it sold for $60. And now they are going for over $100 just the A unit. I have paid $400 for a Proto 2k ABA Southern Pacific set on Ebay. That one I would recommend keeping if possible.

I dont know what brand that Spirit of 76 is, but I would look at that one production year. As it could be worth keeping.

But I am not an expert. And your not showing shells off so its hard to know from the telling signs. Hopefully others will chime in.

John


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

traction fan said:


> John;
> The popular "Tortoise" Stall motor switch machine, sold by Circuitron, does NOT have a DCC decoder inside it.
> ...
> They do it the old fashioned way with wires, rather than digital transmissions, however.
> ...


I will want to open another thread on this later as I am confused. It looks like the DCC versions are powered by track power. And thats a problem currently when I look at how little track power I have. More so, I would rather turnouts being powered by a separate power source and only listen to the DCC signal for instructions.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Riggzie said:


> this is the mix...


If that is a Proto 2000, you can run this Sound decoder for $40 from Ebay. its a MRC 1922 style and more or less a bolt in. I am trying the my first one in my Amtrak E9 A unit, and if I like it I will be buying 6 more.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-diesel-sound-decoder-for-proto-2000-PA-E8-E9-Also-good-for-any-wide-loco/124013073589?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Riggzie said:


> this is the mix...


That Pennsylvania could also be a MTH model.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*You're right*



johnfm3 said:


> It looks like the DCC versions are powered by track power. . , I would rather turnouts being powered by a separate power source and only listen to the DCC signal for instructions.


John;

I suppose it's possible that they can be/are tapping the 14-16 VAC constant output from the DCC system's bus wires, and then receiving the digital signals, riding on top of that constant AC, that are addressed to them. That is how locomotive decoders work. I thought that most stationary decoders just needed input power, and didn't care where it came from. They could draw that power from the DCC bus wires, (aka track power) or be fed power from a different source. I don't use stationary decoders, so I don't really know.

If you are going to run a lot of sound-equipped locomotives, which, themselves, use a good deal of power, and turnout stationary decoders as well, then maybe you should look at getting a booster unit for your DCC system. Such a booster could supply enough power to run everything. They are available from all the major DCC system manufacturers. Starting a new thread on the "Technical Forum" section, where many of our DCC gurus hang out, is a good idea, and will probably get you some better answers.

good luck;

Traction Fan


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

traction fan said:


> John;
> 
> I suppose it's possible that they can be/are tapping the 14-16 VAC constant output from the DCC system's bus wires, and then receiving the digital signals, riding on top of that constant AC, that are addressed to them. That is how locomotive decoders work. I thought that most stationary decoders just needed input power, and didn't care where it came from. They could draw that power from the DCC bus wires, (aka track power) or be fed power from a different source. I don't use stationary decoders, so I don't really know.
> 
> ...


Earlier in this thread I commented about the need to get a booster. I think I really need a 10amp due to my wants in this, although I have a lot of people saying 5ams is enough. But my 3amp unit can barely push what I got now on the track.

I can run my ABA set with 2 F units LokSound sound equip, kick off a proto 2000 E unit with no Sound, and when I hit the engine start sequence in my Tsunami2 SD40-2, the Proto 2000 E unit will start to studder in the running. I may have power issues such as too small a gauge wire running from controllers to track. And that is something to fix ASAP before getting increase power.

So in short, I know I need alot more power. I just need to have done all that others have suggested before they dont feel I have wasted my cash and gone completely overkill in something I didnt need. Hence under minding my opinions when I make future suggestions in other threads.


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

I really can't speak from experience, but I tend to believe that in most cases 5 amps will be enough. Take that with a grain of salt. But, i wouldn't do anything until I had a good feeder network to the track... if you're having the problems you've described, then I agree I'd start there first.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Tom_C said:


> I really can't speak from experience, but I tend to believe that in most cases 5 amps will be enough. Take that with a grain of salt. But, i wouldn't do anything until I had a good feeder network to the track... if you're having the problems you've described, then I'd start there first.


As I discussed with Erik from DCC Specialties, the 1980's bus looks to be all 18 gauge wire and feeder drops. I am going to remove the 2 controller switches (to ensure they are not causing a drop) and then re run new wire for 4 main bus's in 14 gauge. 1 per area. Protected by a Circuit breaker or Auto-Reverser / CB. 

Right now the layout is broken down into 6 power districts, with the siding and yard taking 3 of them alone. The other 3 contain a upper level dedicated, and the remaining track broken into 2 districts containing one of the 2 tracks in the elevation change and portion of the lower loop.

In short, I will break it down into 4 districts as suggested by DCC Specialties and run 14 gauge main runs with 18 gauge feeder drops.

Another issue with my layout, the track is not soldered together at non isolated sections. I am going to fix that. And get the power districts soldered together and make sure there are few feeder drops going down.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Soldering rail joiners*



johnfm3 said:


> As I discussed with Erik from DCC Specialties, the 1980's bus looks to be all 18 gauge wire and feeder drops. I am going to remove the 2 controller switches (to ensure they are not causing a drop) and then re run new wire for 4 main bus's in 14 gauge. 1 per area. Protected by a Circuit breaker or Auto-Reverser / CB.
> 
> Right now the layout is broken down into 6 power districts, with the siding and yard taking 3 of them alone. The other 3 contain a upper level dedicated, and the remaining track broken into 2 districts containing one of the 2 tracks in the elevation change and portion of the lower loop.
> 
> ...


John;

I only suggested the possibility of getting a booster because you had said that if the Snails, Tortoise/Hare combinations, or other stationary decoders, were going to draw power from the track, that would be a problem for you. Now that you have described your wiring, I agree that going to 14ga. bus wires, feeder wires, power districts, etc. should take priority, and might possibly eliminate the need for a booster. It sounds like a good plan. Good luck with it!

As you may have seen here, there are different opinions on the idea of soldering all the rail joiners. Some think its a good idea, others, including me, don't.

My rationale for not soldering every single rail joiner is based on two things. 1) The possibility of thermal expansion/contraction, and,
2) The idea of what the single function, (or dual functions, as some would have it) of rail joiners is. I feel they should be relied on only to join rail ends in physical alignment.
Of course they also act as electrical connectors, but not as reliable connectors, over the long haul. Soldering them all is one solution, but 
if that's done then there is no slack anywhere for expansion. The amount of expansion of the actual rails is very minor, but the wood under them can expand, contract, and warp. It does so more from variations in humidity than temperature. The wood takes the glued-down track right along with it when it moves; and if all rail joints are soldered, the rails can be forced out of gage, or even to rip free of the ties.

I prefer to solder the rail joiners of flex track that will be used in curves. I do this while the two sections of flex track are still straight, to prevent kinks.
However, I leave rail joiners unsoldered on straight track, with small gaps between the rail ends.

I'm also a big believer in having a feeder wire soldered to each, and every, rail on the layout.(Note: Each rail of a soldered assembly of two 3' sections of flex track can be considered as one 6' long rail)
With those feeders soldered to the bus wires, it doesn't matter if any rail joiners carry electricity, or not. The feeder/bus wire network provides perfect electrical continuity without reliance on any rail joiners as electrical connectors.

This system was used on the 25 scale miles of my old club's main line, with no electrical failures resulting in dead sections. I've used it on all my layouts, and heartily recommend it. 

regards;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

johnfm3 said:


> I can run my ABA set with 2 F units LokSound sound equip, kick off a proto 2000 E unit with no Sound, and when I hit the engine start sequence in my Tsunami2 SD40-2, the Proto 2000 E unit will start to studder in the running. I may have power issues such as too small a gauge wire running from controllers to track. And that is something to fix ASAP before getting increase power.


Maybe more track drops would fix this issue for you.

I can run three sound equipped locomotives and three silent locomotives all at the same time. In addition, I have several lamps, indicators and two Walthers decoder equipped turnout machines all on track power without ill effect.

I don't normally run that many trains at once because it is too much to try and keep up with, but two or three sound locomotives and a silent locomotive running at the same time is normal on my railroad.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

traction fan said:


> John;
> 
> I only suggested the possibility of getting a booster because you had said that if the Snails, Tortoise/Hare combinations, or other stationary decoders, were going to draw power from the track, that would be a problem for you.
> 
> ...


Please dont feel or think I was arguing or upset on your suggestion of getting a booster. I totally agree. And yes, Like Pizza, it seems everyone has a way or idea on how they like to do something (lets call that a opinion) which works for them, how that compares to pizza is it seems no 2 people agree... lol The big discussion on the booster is how much is needed or too much.

I live in Wa state at the foot hills of the cascade mountains. Humidity is not my friend as we are pretty moist most of the time. Luckily my layout is in the house, but even that can hit over 80% at times.

My current track is not glued down at all. Nor is the cork it is laid on. Its all held together by nails and rail joiners. I have known about the issue of expansions. And I have never experienced it myself, dont know how much of a issue it will be for me where I live and where its physically located.

This is another issue I need to resolve on my track layout. Getting all the track work glued down and balasted to it will sit in one spot. Currently, when a train goes over track, I occasionally see the track settle or raise as I come off it. And I know some of my turnouts are not sitting flat. It almost looks like those where never secured to the board.

As you can start to gather, this layout has a bunch of issues which need to be address in some form of order in order to make it usable. I also need to keep in mind that this is a temp layout till I can build my main Dream Layout, then this one gets rebuilt with more modern methods. Less wood and more foam board.

Thanks,
John


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

MichaelE said:


> Maybe more track drops would fix this issue for you.
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't normally run that many trains at once because it is too much to try and keep up with, but two or three sound locomotives and a silent locomotive running at the same time is normal on my railroad.


Yeah, as discussed with traction fan, I need to come up with a solution which will work. There will be a better evaluation of feeder drops, more drops added, and some soldering of track. And as of this morning, I am also thinking that just soldering a jumper wire over on each side of the gap to allow for expansion and still have a solid electrical connection. And then all this has to be ballasted and glued. This layout is not a long term layout, my plan is to learn on this layout and get it functional as I finish building the Jig's and tooling required for building my dream layout.

And of course my power needs evaluated and addressed for how I want to run my RR.

Thanks,
John


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

It seems a waste of DCC power run the turnout motors with it. Seems much better to run the stall motors on their own cheap power supply. This does not prevent control of the turnouts from being DCC. If you use Digitrax DCC systems the Loconet bus can be run to stationary decoders (like the DS64) then the control of the turnout can be via manual switches and/or loconet (throttle or JMRI) yet the power to run the stall motors is on a seperate Power supply. Adding a booster because of turnouts seems a waste of money! Adding a booster because you run a lot of engines with sound makes sense.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Lemonhawk said:


> It seems a waste of DCC power run the turnout motors with it. Seems much better to run the stall motors on their own cheap power supply. This does not prevent control of the turnouts from being DCC. If you use Digitrax DCC systems the Loconet bus can be run to stationary decoders (like the DS64) then the control of the turnout can be via manual switches and/or loconet (throttle or JMRI) yet the power to run the stall motors is on a seperate Power supply. Adding a booster because of turnouts seems a waste of money! Adding a booster because you run a lot of engines with sound makes sense.


The booster needs to be added because I want more power to run Sound Loco's as 3A is not enough. This will be done after track power bus had been updated to 14 gauge wire with 18 gauge feeder drops track soldering has been done.

I totally agree with your point on the second power system to run turnouts. Which is why I suggested using a ATX power supply earlier in this thread. I have settled on using a HP server power supply which is capable of providing a stable 12v at 100Amps for all my accessory needs. And that cost less than $40 ready to use.

For now based on the conversation of this thread I plan to run my twin coil switch machines with my old DC controller until a second power grid is setup.

I do want to look for a switch solution which can be powered by a dedicated 12v power grid and listen to my NCE DCC system. NCE is a requirement for me. I am not changing my DCC control system and I dont want to intermix them.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Lemonhawk said:


> It seems a waste of DCC power run the turnout motors with it. Seems much better to run the stall motors on their own cheap power supply. This does not prevent control of the turnouts from being DCC. If you use Digitrax DCC systems the Loconet bus can be run to stationary decoders (like the DS64) then the control of the turnout can be via manual switches and/or loconet (throttle or JMRI) yet the power to run the stall motors is on a seperate Power supply. Adding a booster because of turnouts seems a waste of money! Adding a booster because you run a lot of engines with sound makes sense.


For the two seconds they take to move points I don't worry about power consumption. There is usually a stopped train waiting for the track to align anyway.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

I use Kato HO Unitrack.

For switch machine power, I took an OLD MRC power pack, then drew the 15v a.c. from it. I ran that to a Kato part number 24-842 "dc converter" which rectifies the a.c. to d.c. I used that in conjunction with the Kato 24-840 switch levers. Works fine.


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## wiley2012 (Dec 8, 2012)

My layout uses a Bachmann E-Z Command system with the 5-amp power booster, hooked up to E-Z Track. To control the turnouts and nearby operating TYCO "Prestomatic" accessories, I use an old TYCO power pack...








For this purpose, it gets the job done very nicely. For several other lighted accessories on the layout, I have a few more basic train set power packs underneath the table. (One of them is an older black-and-red Bachmann power pack, and another is a blue Life-Like pack.)
The modern Bachmann power pack next to the E-Z Command unit's AC terminals don't work; I use it as an extra throttle for any analog locomotives linked to the E-Z Command unit.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

So I have a update as too what I did for accessory power on my layout. And I am really liking it.

2 months ago I bought a Gigampz CS v2 Adapter Board and a HP 1U server power supply good for regulated 12v at 100A. As its a server quality power supply, as the power output gets close to max, the power supply remains clean and at 12v with minimal deviation.

So far I am not loading down. Simply have some LED rope light for under the layout, and the turnout twin coil switches.

As the layout gets updated, I will be making full use of this power supply. Expanding the layout foot print, and adding a walthern's turn table.

As I said above, I would totally recommend this for clean 12v power source for layout Accessories.

Thanks,
John


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Last October I converted a computer power supply for layout use. It's going to power the switch machines, LED's, etc.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

flyboy2610 said:


> Last October I converted a computer power supply for layout use. It's going to power the switch machines, LED's, etc.


I will be interested in seeing how you deal with providing power to your switch motors depending what solution you choose to go with.

Currently I am using old school twin coil. I will be moving to slow moving tortoise switch machine with dcc support.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm going to use Tortoise switch machines. It's basically 12V run through a DPDT switch. 
1st diagram of the wiring schematics on page 2. 


http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/INS/800-6000ins.pdf


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

At 100 amps I wound be using fuses and circuit breakers to attempt to protect the accessories and wires from being melted and or welded! You need the protection to keep the wires from catching fire!


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Flyboy, you might consider a stationary decoder like a Digitrax DS64 to control stall motors for turnouts (or twin coil) if you want to have DCC control of the turnout.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Lemonhawk said:


> At 100 amps I wound be using fuses and circuit breakers to attempt to protect the accessories and wires from being melted and or welded! You need the protection to keep the wires from catching fire!


Yep. Agree. I will probably run it thru a fuse block similiar to the fuses which are commonly found it cars.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Right now I dont run the layout enough to worry about it. (I have probably ran the layout 7 or 8 hrs this year in total) And everything is plugged into a server grade APC battery backup to keep clean power going to the layout.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Lemonhawk said:


> Flyboy, you might consider a stationary decoder like a Digitrax DS64 to control stall motors for turnouts (or twin coil) if you want to have DCC control of the turnout.


I thought about that but decided I din't want to go that route. A DPDT switch is good enough for me.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Lemonhawk said:


> Flyboy, you might consider a stationary decoder like a Digitrax DS64 to control stall motors for turnouts (or twin coil) if you want to have DCC control of the turnout.





flyboy2610 said:


> I thought about that but decided I din't want to go that route. A DPDT switch is good enough for me.


This is what I am doing. DCC controlled turnouts. I plan on a seperate and isolated dcc 3Amp power system with its own main bus for my turnouts and any other DCC controlled accessories I want.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I thought these looked rather slick and I liked the big lever throw device. I do not own any and they are out the UK. I have no idea if they are easy to get here or any good.





__





DCCconcepts Cobalt Point Motors


DCCconcepts Cobalt Point Motors make it super-easy to add reliable, realistic point operation to your model railway layout!




www.dccconcepts.com


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Severn said:


> I thought these looked rather slick and I liked the big lever throw device. I do not own any and they are out the UK. I have no idea if they are easy to get here or any good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Their power supplies look interesting for a dedicated dcc accessory power source.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I was actually gonna try to make my own. I have the parts -- I bought some very tiny DC motors and have some arduinos sitting around. (as I already built DCC++ and use the jrmi software.) I even have the discrete parts for a DCC decoder project I found online.

(for example -- DCC Arduino)

What I don't have is ability to stop starting new projects!

Anyway before I thought about that, I had looked at these cobalts and thought they looked rather nice.


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## johnfm3 (Sep 30, 2016)

Severn said:


> I was actually gonna try to make my own. I have the parts -- I bought some very tiny DC motors and have some arduinos sitting around. (as I already built DCC++ and use the jrmi software.) I even have the discrete parts for a DCC decoder project I found online.
> 
> (for example -- DCC Arduino)
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the link ~ John


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

there are several arduino projects using servos for turnout control. I like stall motors as they are easy to control. I use these SwitchMaster - Premium Switch Machines - from Builders In Scale. easy to install


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I don't know what's optimal. I got the servos as they were small and cheap. I have some other ideas too but they are half screw ball. first one is battery power. i hate running wires. then second is RF control. although i admit i'm now confused as where the DCC commands come from for switches. Given that I can imagine just using track power -- 5v smoothed out to the arduino and servo -- and then PWM track power goes to the homebrew DCC decoder -- which the arduino checks for actuation or maybe gets an interrupt. but then you have to run wires. why bother with all that!


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