# New Layout DCC or DC



## markgrecco (May 27, 2013)

I'm designing a new layout and haven't decided yet if I'm going to go for DCC or DC. If I go with DC and insulators I want to make sure I can change over later if I want. So my question is... is there anything in the track laying process that would restrict me later from using DCC? I'm using all Atlas Code 100 snap track.


Thanks

Mark


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Mark

To give you the right advice we'd need to have a better idea of
your layout plans. Having said that, I'll just plow ahead as if
I knew what I was talking about. 

First, be sure to read pertinent posts in the DCC forum. You'll
be way ahead in your planning and you'll avoid the
mistakes that we have already made.

Basically, wiring track for DCC is much simpler than for DC. If it is
a smaller layout with a few turnouts and no reverse loops or wyes
it could all be one big 'block'. No special polarity reverse switches
or power on/off needed. A larger layout would need some additional
isolated blocks and DCC boosters to power them.

A reverse loop, turntable or wye would need a controller designed
to match polarity in DCC. 

Even if you go with DC and do install insulated blocks make certain
the drops can easily be tied to the main busses for a later DCC 
System. Other than that your track would be ready for DCC.

It's likely that most of the Forum guys would urge you to get your feet
wet and wade right in with DCC.  It offers much more fun
in operations while making your layout plans more simple.

Turnout selection is important. It is suggested that you avoid
turnouts such as Peco's Electrofrog, use their Insulfrog instead.

Whether you go with DC or DCC there's someone here on the
forum who can give you the right answer to whatever question
might come up. 

Best of luck

Don


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## markgrecco (May 27, 2013)

Thanks for the advise Don. There are no polarity issues with the layout and it could be run through one DC controller without any insulators. My plan is to use 2 controllers as there is 2 main loops and then also the areas that join the outer loop to the inner one would be able to switch between which controller is powering them or be off completely. I will also have a few insulated sidings for parking trains.

So I guess if I go with the DC to start I should technically just have to remove the insulators and I'd be good to go. As far as the changes to the track itself anyway.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

I would put in the insulators while laying the track and wire it with busses for DCC. Wire it for 2 blocks minimum. I feel this is the best practice either way you go. I feel it is irrelevant whether it is DC or DCC. It works better electrically. It is likely you will go to DCC eventually. It not fun having to redo later. The initial cost increase is minor. Extra wire and insulators. Definitely choose which turnouts to buy based on future use for DCC.


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## markgrecco (May 27, 2013)

JerryH said:


> I would put in the insulators while laying the track and wire it with busses for DCC. Wire it for 2 blocks minimum. I feel this is the best practice either way you go. I feel it is irrelevant whether it is DC or DCC. It works better electrically. It is likely you will go to DCC eventually. It not fun having to redo later. The initial cost increase is minor. Extra wire and insulators. Definitely choose which turnouts to buy based on future use for DCC.


Thanks Jerry. Do you know if the Atlas 850/851 (remote snap-switch), 281/282 (#4 Mark IV turnout), and 280 (Mark IV wye turnout) are all fine for DCC?


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Mark IV are OK. I would not use snap switches. You cannot power the frog on a snap switch. Powered frogs help on DCC.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

OK...it's only my opinion here...but I'd stay away from those flimsy "Snapswitches" alltogether,wether for DC or DCC.The controls (switch) that come with them are notorious "stickers" thus burn the turnout coils in no time.Then,their powering coils are unsightly but worse,their wires break easy at the root when handled and there's no way to repair them.Stay away from that junk....
I'd go even further...stay away from Atlas trackage.They've moved their production to China and haven't bothered stocking to supply their customers during the changeover so many components aren't available at the moment and rumors are there won't be any before fall at best.There are many modelers screaming right now that they can't complete their layouts due to the shortage.That,in my book,is poor customer service.

My personal choice is Peco for trackage.Not cheap but bulletproof with a much wider choice of turnouts and supplies are reliable.They have Electrofrog and Insulfrog type turnouts...I've installed of both types and never had any problem with either,even with DCC.

Then going DC or DCC?If you're going with a simple oval (even double) then DC will do fine.However,for a more complex layout,my suggestion is to go DCC right away...it'll cost more indeed,but you won't invest in hardware (switches,extra wiring,etc) that will become obsolete when you switch to DCC,not considering the extra work involved in setting up your "block control".And even with a rather simple layout,you may wish to have sound in the future,on top of all the functional features of DCC.Your call.....


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## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

As a new guy to DCC I can say that it is easy to use. I have a small loop with one siding. One power feed to the loop and one to the siding. The power feed to the siding was not necessary but enables me to turn off a loco that made an annoying "diesel" noise when powered up.
Almost all DCC locos will run on DC. The only negative is that the DCC locos are more expensive and sound adds even more cost but you do get the ability to run 2 or more trains at the same time on the same loop. All IMO; Don


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Brakeman Jake said:


> They have Electrofrog and Insulfrog type turnouts...I've installed of both types and never had any problem with either,even with DCC.


 
Same here.

Make lots of blocks, DC or DCC it mike finding problesm a lot easyer. To change the layout to DCC from DC just remove the two track wires at the old DC power supply and hook them to the new DCC control station. you will not have to remove the insluators.


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## markgrecco (May 27, 2013)

Brakeman Jake said:


> OK...it's only my opinion here...but I'd stay away from those flimsy "Snapswitches" alltogether,wether for DC or DCC.The controls (switch) that come with them are notorious "stickers" thus burn the turnout coils in no time.Then,their powering coils are unsightly but worse,their wires break easy at the root when handled and there's no way to repair them.Stay away from that junk....
> I'd go even further...stay away from Atlas trackage.They've moved their production to China and haven't bothered stocking to supply their customers during the changeover so many components aren't available at the moment and rumors are there won't be any before fall at best.There are many modelers screaming right now that they can't complete their layouts due to the shortage.That,in my book,is poor customer service.
> 
> My personal choice is Peco for trackage.Not cheap but bulletproof with a much wider choice of turnouts and supplies are reliable.They have Electrofrog and Insulfrog type turnouts...I've installed of both types and never had any problem with either,even with DCC.
> ...


Thank you for this response because it made me widen my view a bit while I'm still in the design phase. I already have some Atlas track including 9 turnouts but 8 of them are snap switches. So that's why I was automatically thinking of going with Atlas. Kinda sucks to have $300 in track that I'm not going to use on the new layout but at the same time I'd rather spend a little more to have fewer problems down the road. I went to the hobby shop today so I could physically see the PECO track and I really like the turnouts. I can see why it is recommended above Atlas. I also found this forum post http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=56890 which I thought was interesting. The supply issue is also a big minus for Atlas. The guy at the hobby shop said there are some turnouts that have been out of stock for almost a year.

Back to the layout software for me now to design using PECO. I've done a bit of reading on the Electrofrog and Insulfrog and from what I read the Electrofrog is better for DCC but more wiring. Is the extra work worth it to use the Electrofrog or is it worth the extra dollar or two to just get the Insulfrog and save some wiring time? I plan to use switches and not digitally control the turnouts.

Thanks


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

You can use either Electrofrog or Insulfrog without any special wiring.It has happened in the past that modelers had to power the frog to avoid locomotives stalling over the turnout but it likely happened if one would stop it on the TO...it would require a push to get going again.This was more common as the old days locomotives had pretty poor power pickups.

Peco's turnouts are the "power routing" type...the frog's polarity changes automatically as the moving rail changes position and contacts the outside rails.Providing the track is kept clean,install them as per Peco's instructions (with insulating joiners at the frog) and you shouldn't have any problem.

But then,if you're worried you might have an issue,the Insulfrog type TO's will do just fine.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

markgrecco said:


> I have some Atlas track including 9 turnouts but 8 of them are snap switches. So that's why I was automatically thinking of going with Atlas


You can still use them, just put them in places that will see less traffic.



markgrecco said:


> Kinda sucks to have $300 in track that I'm not going to use on the new layout but at the same time I'd rather spend a little more to have fewer problems down the road.


You can mix flex track makes. I have a lot of Atlas flex track that works great.




markgrecco said:


> ..........I've done a bit of reading on the Electrofrog and Insulfrog and from what I read the Electrofrog is better for DCC but more wiring. Is the extra work worth it to use the Electrofrog or is it worth the extra dollar or two to just get the Insulfrog and save some wiring time?


 


Brakeman Jake said:


> You can use either Electrofrog or Insulfrog without any special wiring.It has happened in the past that modelers had to power the frog to avoid locomotives stalling over the turnout but it likely happened if one would stop it on the TO...it would require a push to get going again.This was more common as the old days locomotives had pretty poor power pickups.
> 
> Peco's turnouts are the "power routing" type...the frog's polarity changes automatically as the moving rail changes position and contacts the outside rails.Providing the track is kept clean,install them as per Peco's instructions (with insulating joiners at the frog) and you shouldn't have any problem.
> 
> But then,if you're worried you might have an issue,the Insulfrog type TO's will do just fine.


 I agree.



markgrecco said:


> I plan to use switches and not digitally control the turnouts.
> 
> Thanks


That is the way i do it. We can always add it later.


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## markgrecco (May 27, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your replies. I covered a lot more then I intended. I'm really glad I joined this forum before I started buying everything for this new layout.

Best Regards

Mark


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