# Peco turnout short



## xeniachooch (Feb 7, 2014)

Hi,

I've used a 1/2 dozen Peco turouts on my N scale pike; they're SUPPOSED to be insulfrog, but when I throw to the siding, I get a dead short. The engine will no longer run on either track. I put insulated track joiners on the point end of the switch as instructed. Currently, I have insulted rail joiners at the end of the turnout on the siding. I'm looking at the switch, trying to figure out where I should also break the circuit, but I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Any clues?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I use Peco Insulfrog HO turnouts. 

They are power routing, as are your N turnouts, so your insulated joiners are
a good move. They should be, as you mention, in the rails
that diverge from the frog. Power routing means
the track power is fed into the rails of the track to which the turnout is set.
Your track feed could be cut by the power routing factor if it is on
the end of the turnout where the frog is. If on the straight, and you
throw the turnout to curve, the connection from the straight is cut
and you could lose power to the layout and the train would stop. I would
suggest the drop be connected on the end of the turnout away from the
frog. With power routing turnouts it is sometimes necessary to have 
several track feed drops to keep the power on.

Here are more tests.

Do you have any indication on your controller or power pack that there is
in fact a short circuit?

If an actual short occurs, is the loco ON the turnout or 
at another point on the track? 

If On the turnout, I would suspect the wheels are spanning the tiny
insulator between the diverging rails at the frog. A tiny dab of
clear fingernail polish at that point would solve the problem. If loco somewhere
else on the layout we'll check further.

In your mind, designate the 'left' rail RED, the 'right rail BLACK.
Now follow your track around your layout
and make sure that the Red (or whatever color) power drop wire
is always on the RED rail, and the Black is always on the Black rail. Make
sure where they tie to your power pack or controller that that same black/red
scheme has not been crossed.

I'm thinking you may have a track feed reversed on the 'curved'
track beyond the turnout. I am also assuming you do not have
a reverse loop involved. That would cause shorting.

Another check. Make sure the plastic joiners are in fact separating
the rails.

If this doesn't help, are you DC or DCC. Give us a pic of your layout
and indicate where you have your track drops. Show which turnout
is shorting. Also tell about any switches you may be using to
control track power on/off or change power packs.

Don


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## xeniachooch (Feb 7, 2014)

Red circle is drop; green circle is insulated joiners.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Don has a finger on the problem...most likely an inverted feeder somewhere or you have created a return loop.

The turnouts in the picture are indeed insulfrog and don't need insulated joiners.There's obviously an error somewhere wich is not obvious on the picture.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Still the question: Are you getting a short circuit or is there
a power cut off? Either would stop the loco. Are you getting
a short indicator on your controller or power pack? If not, you have
a power cut off.

The drop is at the non frog end of the turnout. If the power routing
turnout is set for curve, it would turn off power to the straight track beyond
the frog. The insulators would prevent power from flowing beyond them to
the diverging tracks. In this situation no loco could run on the straight or
diverging tracks.

Another question: Are there any other drops feeding the tracks?

Can you give us a pic showing the entire layout?

Don


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## xeniachooch (Feb 7, 2014)

I don't think I could photograph the whole layout in one pic. Yes, I have a total of 13 drops, for 13 blocks on the layout. There are eleven switches (turnouts) total, but this is the only one giving me fits. I checked, and it is not an overload. The area not powered when I throw the switch is to the right of the switch, on the mainline. (Lowermost track). Here is an photo from the side of the layout which captures all of it. (I think)


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The picture doesn't reveal any valuable info.However,your problem not being an overload (tripping the power supply),it likely means that you simply need an extra feeder or more.

First rule in MY book...never depend on ANY turnout to feed ANY portion of track.All trackage should be fed all the time no matter the position of the turnout leading to it.

Then make sure all non-insulfrog turnouts (or non-Peco) have insulators at both ends of the frog so you don't have shorts and you should be fine.

I suggest you get a cheap automotive test lamp (or make one) and follow your tracks while throwing turnouts,this is an easy way to find the dead areas.


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## xeniachooch (Feb 7, 2014)

But, why would trains run the mainline UNTIL I switch the turnout to the siding?


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Most obviously because a section of yiur main line is relying on the power routing of the turnout for power.Install an extra feeder drop to this section.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Jake is right about that. The Peco Insulfrog turnouts are power
routing. So when you throw the turnout it is going to feed power
to the new route and cut it off from the other route. As Jake advised,
install new drops on the main line tracks on both sides of the troublesome
turnout. 

You may have to replace the insulated joiners you put in next to this
turnout with brass to restore power to the track beyond. Try it without
doing that tho.

You have a lot of blocks. If you have isolated them with insulators that also
added to the difficulty with the power routing.

Don


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## xeniachooch (Feb 7, 2014)

All of the blocks are powered with drops. I''ll add one to the right of the switch on the main, and see what happens....

Thanks everyone for your input! I was scratching my head on this one.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

All of the insulators used to create the blocks prevent power from
being passed around the layout. Thus when the Peco power routing
turns off the juice to a certain track it can't get a back feed from the
next block. Because of this, you may have to add drops in the diverging
rails of each turnout. 

Don


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