# A Christmas Starter Set to Last and Shine



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Hello all,

Completely new to the hobby. I'm looking to begin to build a Christmas set for my kids. I would like to add a car to it each Christmas and display it under the tree and then potentially in it's own space down the line. I'm not in a big space now, so I am very interested in something quiet. I have been recommended G Scale Piko or LGB because they are supposedly quieter, but the are just so big for the space I have. That in mind, here are a few things I'm looking for and I was wondering if you can steer me in the right direction. I'm so up in the air with scale, brand, etc that it's a little overwhelming

1-Quiet
2-Expandable
3-Classy- Some of the new Lionel is great, but they look a little cheap compared to LGB and Piko. I realize they are cheaper, but they just look a bit plasticy
4-Affordable- Under 300 would be great


Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Gaboon512 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Completely new to the hobby. I'm looking to begin to build a Christmas set for my kids. I would like to add a car to it each Christmas and display it under the tree and then potentially in it's own space down the line. I'm not in a big space now, so I am very interested in something quiet. I have been recommended G Scale Piko or LGB because they are supposedly quieter, but the are just so big for the space I have. That in mind, here are a few things I'm looking for and I was wondering if you can steer me in the right direction. I'm so up in the air with scale, brand, etc that it's a little overwhelming
> 
> ...


Welcome to our site.
If you don't have the space G scale is not the way to go.
O scale a bit smaller, but you still need room.
HO might be the way to go for you. Though HO is really not good for young kids hands.
Depending on the kids that is.
HO has a lot to offer you in what is available. 
There is N scale, quite small, but quiet.

If you get O there are ways to quiet the noise level some.
But compared to HO or N you need more space.

There is also S scale it is a little smaller then O.











Since no one answered yet this is a start.


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Thank you! This is very helpful. I loved the colors and themes of the G scale, but they are so large. I was looking at HO and S. Should I be looking anywhere other than Lionel? Lionel seems to be the only S scales I can find, but no Christmas beyond polar express

I would like to maybe move it from under the tree to a village one day when we get more space, which also brought me to the HO.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Go to our S forum, ask the S men where and who sells the S scale.
I don't know, but they will know what is available and from who. I know Lionel does.

A member Flyernut there sells starter sets of S, he goes over them first. You can trust buying from him.
But they are not new but older ones. But like I said he goes over them before he sells.
Can you paint? 
Make your own Christmas train. 
Not hard to make up some Christmas type cars and load them with goodies
.


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Thanks for the info! I'll head over there now.


----------



## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

If you don't mind more toylike in nature you may want to look at the old three-rail toy trains. They have tight curves but large equipment and lots of weird and wonderful moving parts like cattle cars that unload themselves. I know nothing about expense.


----------



## Digitalbill (Oct 4, 2020)

My wife puts up a very nice Christmas village every year.
We run 0n30, a little bigger train size running on ho track
It works well with the scale of the Christmas houses.
We still run G scale around the tree mainly because
kids love it, and I am a G scale guy.


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Looking at a Bachman HO set, but the one I am looking at doesn't smoke. Is there a really great smoking locomotive by Bachman that would make a good add on?


----------



## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Gaboon, a few more things to consider: 1) Will your train set run on the floor or on a table/platform? On the floor, it can easily pick up dirt, dust, pet hair, carpet fuzz, etc., so would need to be on a plywood/styrofoam base for protection. 2) How old are your kids?...young hands can more easily break N and HO equipment, although HO is pretty tough. O scale is much tougher and easier for them to handle. 3) Even at the beginning stage, DCC (digital command control) is recommended over DC (direct current) as the electrical control system. DCC uses digital signals sent through the track to the engine to control engine operations, sounds such as whistle/horn, bell, steam sounds, etc., and lights. As you progress to a permanent layout, DCC makes wiring much easier than DC. Of course, as with all things better, DCC is more expensive. Good luck as you move along!


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Thanks! It will be on the floor around the tree for the time being, with maybe an eventual move to a table top Village if I get the space. The kids are newborns, so no touching for a little bit!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Gaboon512 said:


> The kids are newborns, so no touching for a little bit!


I can see their eyes at Christmas. 
And bigger next year. 
You can make a circle out of plywood, cut it in half for when your done using it. Better yet cut it in 1/4's.
You won't see the wood if you put a snow blanket down. ( watch on the snow products, beware of lint being picked up in your trains.)
So no need to make it pretty, just the wood.
But even then you could paint the wood. Paint in a road and paint other spots for where your other Christmas things will sit. ( I have no ideal on what you are planning besides track) 
Plan on whatever you are going to add to the Christmas layout.
You know what I mean by snow blanket?


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

I do. We use a regular blanket, but that's a great idea. Wish the Lionel set was a little cheaper or the Bachman would smoke. Excited to get something set up


----------



## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

I can see On30 as very attractive for a Christmas layout! Trainworld might be a good source. Not sure I would go with the smoke, but I guess that's a preference 

Haha, Unitrack, of course!


----------



## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I definitely do not like smoke from my trains! Smoke = trouble in my estimation. Besides, those new kids (and you and spouse) don't need to be breathing smoke, even if they claim it's harmless. JMHO...


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

This actually makes me feel better about the Bachman! Thank you all for your help. I also thought I could always get a smoking cabin or something, as well.


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Fire21 said:


> I definitely do not like smoke from my trains! Smoke = trouble in my estimation. Besides, those new kids (and you and spouse) don't need to be breathing smoke, even if they claim it's harmless. JMHO...


I know we have a thread on the smoke ingredients somewhere.
I think it was that smoke was made out of Glycerin or Propylene glycol.
Both of those products you eat or drink, or use in soaps. Food grade.
The old pellets I don't know for sure.

When I was young I wandered down to Dad's train room in the basement, besides the cigar smoke was the train smoke too.
It was sort of like walking into a London fog. 

But, I guess your right, best for little people to not breath it.


----------



## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm going to take a slightly different tack and suggest "traditional" 3 rail O Scale. It's far sturdier than HO and it runs on a circle of track 36" or less in diameter which is the same or less than HO.

It is cheaper and far more available (new and used) than On30 or S scale.

The downside is that the trains are compressed (especially in length) to run on those small curves but its a great classic look for a Christmas display and much more visually notable than smaller scales.

My son and I work on our layout in HO but for Christmas display we do traditional O. A Lionel starter set is a great way to begin and Menards is a great source of affordable rolling stock to expand your collection. My son received a set for his first birthday and we've added to it every year since.


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Gaboon512 said:


> Thanks! It will be on the floor around the tree for the time being, with maybe an eventual move to a table top Village if I get the space. The kids are newborns, so no touching for a little bit!


"On the floor" (that is directly) is a problem for anything smaller than G-scale or O-gage. (Lionel) This is especially true if the floor is carpeted. Carpet fibers, dust & dirt will be taken into the engine's gears, and get on all the wheels & track, making electrical conduction poor to none. At a minimum, put a clean white cotton bedsheet between the floor and track. In keeping with your christmas theme, the sheet can represent "snow.' Better yet would be a permanent, but stowable, base for the track, and possibly the christmas village structures as well. For the base, it's hard to beat extruded foam insulation board. It's very lightweight, rigid enough to glue track to it semi-permanently, and it can be carved to make streams, rivers, underpasses,etc. below the track, and glued in layers to form hills or tunnels. It can be painted with latex house paint, and it accepts model train scenery materials like "dirt" or "grass." You could cut the foam into two pieces with a half circle cutout in the middle of each piece to leave room for the christmas tree stand. The track sections bridging the cut edges of the foam section would be all that would need to be taken apart to stow the layout.
This is the hard pink, blue, or green foam board sold at home improvement stores. Do not use the white styrofoam " "beadboard" that is sold at the same stores. Yes, beadboard is white like snow, and yes it's cheaper than the pink, blue or green, extruded foam, but beadboard is also incredibly messy! The little white beads will come off with handling, or cutting, and get everywhere! They are so lightweight that it's difficult to sweep them up with a broom. A shop vac works better. The extruded foam also produces dust if/when you actually cut it, but nowhere near as much as beadboard. Foam comes in 4' x 8' sheets, but sometimes smaller sheets are available, and you may be able to have the store cut it for you.

You will also probably see "Roadbed track" like Bachmann's "EZ-Track", and Kato's "Unitrack." They have a rigid gray plastic piece fastened to the bottom of each track section. These track pieces also lock firmly together, which is an advantage for temporary layouts that must be taken apart and re-assembled each christmas. The plastic roadbed piece also raises the track up about 1/2" above the floor. You would think this might help with the carpet fibre/dust issue, but I'm not at all sure that it does. Even if you use roadbed track, I would still put a bed sheet, or a piece of extruded foam, under it.
One big disadvantage of roadbed track is that it is noisy. The plastic piece makes an effective "sounding board" that amplifies the sound of the passing train. The extruded foam, or the traditional piece of plywood, under the track can also act as sounding boards, so since you want things quiet, I recommend regular, non-roadbed, track glued on top of separate foam roadbed. Another possible base material, and something that has traditionally been used as a "sound deadening" material on model railroads, is a pressed paper product called "Homasote." It also comes in 4' x 8' sheets, and I would definitely have the store cut this stuff. The dust produced from cutting Homasote can get into your lungs, and cause serious problems. I wouldn't want you, or your young children, breathing it.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


----------



## Andy57 (Feb 7, 2020)

Gaboon512, you say newborns, as in more than one, and a train on the floor. If they are not crawling yet that train will provide the motivation. No matter what size train you go with, I suggest O or bigger, please set up a video camera and record when them crawlers see train on floor for the first time. That would have to be the best train video yet.
Get ready to chase. LOL
My best.


----------



## Digitalbill (Oct 4, 2020)

With our Christmas village we run the 0n30 on styrofoam. You can get a 4x8 sheet at home depot or lowes
It is used as building insulation and inexpensive. You can cut it with a serrated kitchen knife to any shape you want
and can also use it to build with, and safe for kid, (or wife) projects.
We can't hear the train at all. Also as previously suggested you can cut in sections and it as light to store.


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Thank you for all the inspiration and ideas. Looks like I'm between HO and O with the HO Bachman being the most economical.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Let me provide another take, as well as some comments.

First, avoid a prepackaged "Christmas Train" set. Many of these are just a bunch of really cheap components packaged together. Buy a la carte, which will cost a little more up front, but will last longer and run better. If you avoid the gimmicky stuff aimed at the non-hobby audience, you don't really have to worry about quality anymore. 

Second, "quiet" is a relative concept. One man's quiet is another's raucous din . For the most part, the sound of a train running isn't loud enough to be objectionable. Sound effects are a different story, but you can adjust the volume on those.

Third, smoke oil. Not only are these smoke units temperamental, but that oil, despite being non-toxic, will get on EVERYTHING. Make sure you're ok with that; more importantly, that your wife is.

Finally, there's nothing particularly Christmasy about real trains, except for some details that you can add yourself (decals, wreaths, maybe a little fancy lighting). There are some dedicated Christmas themed cars on real railroads, but they're rare. The key to a nice Christmas layout is it's setting -- the Christmas Village or what have you. If you have a line of products in mind, purchase a train in a scale that works with those (reasonably close), otherwise get off the shelf models (or build your own from modeling materials) and decorate it yourself. Again, think about the real world. We take ordinary, everyday buildings (and other stuff) and decorate the heck out of them. For many, that would be the real joy in doing this. For years, my father put a newly decorated building on the layout every year. Early on, it was one of the surprises to be enjoyed on Christmas morning. Later, it became a family tradition, helping to build and decorate the new building and placing it on Christmas Eve.

One final note -- if you plan to expand your layout, perhaps to a year-long, permanent one, keep in mind the space you can devote to it. Pick a scale that will maximize the use of your available space.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

What CTV said....


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Awesome perspective. I originally was looking for the MTH Orient Express in O Scale and was going to build a village around that, but I can't find one anywhere. Maybe I'll keep looking


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm a bit late to the party here but I'll throw in my two cents. From personal experience, O gauge is the way to go with kids. My first set was a Lionel O gauge set that took some abuse from a much younger me but is still mostly intact and fully operable. I purchased an HO scale set with my savings as a little guy and it didn't last a year as careful as I thought I was. On30 is a nice in between, but the locomotives and cars are definitely still on the delicate side and probably not the greatest for young kids. Someday sooner than later your kids are going to want to be hands on themselves and by all means they should be. That's half the fun at that age and O gauge cars are big enough for them to load and unload "stuff." My dad purchased my O gauge set so that I could participate in running them since at 3 years old he was worried about my ruining the family heirloom 1950's Lionel sets. Now I have all of them in my collection. I'd definitely recommend looking further into O gauge. You can start with the more rugged starter sets and work your way into the more scale sized detailed things as your collection and the kids grow. 

That being said, G scale is also reasonable for younger kids and perhaps even better for the play value of loading/unloading the cars. The downside is space requirements and a smaller manufacturer base in this modern age. I had lots of great fun playing with my Grandpa's G scale collection since I was still crawling on the floor. He spent a lot of time making minor repairs to detail parts that inevitably got broken, but we still had/have fun with them.


----------



## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Gaboon512 said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll head over there now.


Let me add that S is a good comprise size choice, especially American Flyer, there are a number of Christmas cars issued over the years. I have a few as do other S members. There are several on eBay. From time to time I have set up a Christmas display. The S size, in my biased opinion, is the ideal size in a small space. Easy to see and doesn't require a great deal of space to build a nice Christmas layout. Flyernut is a good place to start for reasons already stated as well as anybody who regularly posts on the site. I would ask for opinions on which vender source is most reliable if you wanted to buy from postings on the eBay general sale auction or Buy It Now listings. Most guys I know aren't really into selling parts of their collections. If you go the eBay route, I would first educate yourself as to pricing. On the eBay site, look to the left of the page and scroll down until you come to the "completed sales" area. That will tell you what things have been selling for therefore a kind of price guide. If you wanted to start modestly you can't go wrong by starting with a 302 knuckle couple type since most all Christmas cars are of the knuckle type. Most are cheaper than the bigger engines and is a very reliable engine and plentiful. The other thing is, these are well made pieces and when laid on a piece of pink or blue styrofoam available at box stores, it will run fairly quiet. The most noise you will hear is the engine chuff sound. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If there is any interest in S gauge, Lionel makes complete S gauge starter sets that include an engine, cars, track, power supply and remote control. The wireless remotes are simple and great for kids. Here is a picture of one I purchased recently.


----------



## nicksim86 (Dec 14, 2015)

Gaboon512 said:


> Thank you for all the inspiration and ideas. Looks like I'm between HO and O with the HO Bachman being the most economical.


ON30 is literally between HO and O. Larger O scale trains that run on HO track. That is what I run for my christmas village. It is sized well to match Dept 56 villages


----------



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Gaboon512 said:


> Thank you for all the inspiration and ideas. Looks like I'm between HO and O with the HO Bachman being the most economical.


Gaboon512;

Economical is nice, but it shouldn't rule your choice. Bachmann is a brand that I do not care for, but that shouldn't matter to you. Think long term though. You have babies, and they're going to grow up with a christmas train. They might get interested in model railroading that way, most of us did.
Bachmann makes a roadbed track called "EZ-track." Bachmann train sets each include a loop of their "EZ-Track." Their marketing idea is to get you "hooked" on EZ-Track because when/if you want more track, only Bachmann EZ-Track is designed to snap right onto other EZ-track. With adaptation, it is possible to join EZ -Track to other brands & types, of track, but you won't hear that from Bachmann! The EZ-Track itself is OK, but the Bachmann EZ-Track "turnouts" (track switches) are terrible. The worst on the market. 
If you like roadbed track, Kato brand "Unitrack" is much better, especially the turnouts. Kato makes train sets in HO-scale and N-scale. Unlike most pre-packaged sets, the Kato sets have much better quality components in them, including a loop of Unitrack. The Kato sets, and their full line of individual pieces, Locomotives, cars, track, etc. do cost more, but quality always does, and It's always worth it.

Traction Fan 🙂


----------



## Djsfantasi (Mar 19, 2019)

My favorite around-the-tree layout was N scale. I built an octagonal platform with 1/4” luan on a 1x3 frame. The track was permanently mounted on the plywood. I painted the plywood white and picked some weed tops and mounted them in holes in the plywood. A final coating of spray snow completed the scene.


----------



## DoyleS (Nov 26, 2016)

I have both a 4 x8 HO layout and G scale trains. My 7 grandchildren range from 8 to 1.5. The 8 year old is the only one that can work with HO. the others want to handle the trains. HO trains are model trains. O gauge are better “Toy” trains that smaller children can handle without damaging them. This last year we put down those linking foam pads in the garage and setup a 12x12 area where we could setup the G gauge. Grandkids loved them and could load cars and play with the character. Track and engines are relatively expensive so as others have suggested, O gauge is more affordable and lots of accessories can be added that are fun to play with. They also run much more reliably than HO where track cleaning is more of an issue to keep them running.


----------



## MitchR (Sep 27, 2020)

Gaboon512 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Completely new to the hobby. I'm looking to begin to build a Christmas set for my kids. I would like to add a car to it each Christmas and display it under the tree and then potentially in it's own space down the line. I'm not in a big space now, so I am very interested in something quiet. I have been recommended G Scale Piko or LGB because they are supposedly quieter, but the are just so big for the space I have. That in mind, here are a few things I'm looking for and I was wondering if you can steer me in the right direction. I'm so up in the air with scale, brand, etc that it's a little overwhelming
> 
> ...


I’ve found the Lionel S Gauge Polar Express makes a nice Christmas train


----------



## DoyleS (Nov 26, 2016)

I converted one of my G gauge Bachmans to a Polar express for the grandkids.


----------



## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

I grew up with trains in my house. From Lionel when I was a youngster, to HO scale (contest quality models I built), to N scale.

When we had our first son, it was very easy to decide on Lionel 3 rail. HO will not hold up on the floor with little fingers that want to run it on your couch, walls, carpet, tables, etc. Ebay and local train shows (IF they are allowed to go off) are great places to find deals on various items as long as you are patient. 

What we did for each of my boys (they are 8,6 and 3 now) is give them a locomotive with a couple passenger cars. Each year either Grandpa (another accomplished modeler) or my wife & I give the boys cars to add to their collection.

Just starting out, we used a Lionel CW80 transformer and Lionel Fastrak for around the tree. Simple enough for my kids to control and it has provisions to control horn/bell function.


----------



## Gaboon512 (Oct 13, 2020)

Thanks to everyone for all your help. 

Looking for O and HO sets. Also thought about a Lego train would be an awesome activity and a little less precious.


----------



## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm a bit late to this but a few points.

You are new to this and you are getting a lot of advice from advanced modelers. It can be overwhelming (you shouldn't do this, you should do this, here's what to get....etc). There is nothing wrong with getting a set to start out. That's how I got started way back when with my dad. We had S gauge (American Flyer). There was a lot more of it around in the 60s. We then switched to HO. I'm not suggesting what size to get. The main point I am making is that there is nothing wrong with starting with a set that provides everything you need to get up and running. Being new to this and trying to buy piecemeal when you know little about what to get is a chancy route to go.

About smoke - someone else pointed out its pitfall. It leaves an oily film on EVERYTING. I had one at one point and when I felt the oily film on the track, buildings, trains and platform, that was the end of that short lived thing.


----------

