# Some Thoughts On Having Been on MTF for Three Months Now



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

There have been a number of recent threads and new-member introductions on this forum by people who, like me, left the "OGRE" forum in the last few months. (Nice pun by the way - it works on several levels. _Very _clever). 

I've been meaning to make some comments in reply to those threads and posts, as well as tell the many others who have joined me since how much I appreciate them being here, and today marks exactly three months since I moved over and began participating here exclusively (I joined this forum a year earlier but never really participated until June 6). 
So I decided to sit down and share my thoughts. 

When I stopped participating in the OGR forum, I didn't bear any animosity toward the folks who ran it, although I had lost a good deal of respect for them due to some of their communications to me and other members. I left simply and completely because I wasn't getting anything I wanted out of that forum and in fact was getting a lot I didn't want. As I have said before, when you don't like the food at a restaurant, don't get mad: just find another restaurant. I moved to MTF and found the "cuisine" I was looking for. 

I had expected that my leaving the OGR forum - not just or even mainly leaving as a forum member but more importantly as an _advertiser_ on both the forum and the magazine, would wake up the OGR staff and make them change a bit. But it's clear that not only did that not happen, but that the policies and behavior I didn't like have hardened into "business as usual" there. 

Looking back, I realize is should not have been surprised. As I view it, the OGR forum folks have backed themselves into a corner they can't get out of, and don't really want to get out of. I know what I paid for forum advertising and magazine ads. A little counting of banner ads on the forum and ads in the magazine, along with a bit of simple arithmetic, tells me they are making a lot of money. In a situation like that an organization is likely to do whatever dance is necessary to keep that revenue stream coming. Also, a healthy revenue stream is often interpreted as the beginning and end of success: no need to ask if you are doing a good job otherwise. 

So, first, I doubt if OGR cares much that they have lost and will continue to lose good, contributing members - long time modelers whose work I admire and whose postings I love to read and follow. It's the advertisers, particularly the big ones who buy permanent banner adds, not the low-cost cycling ones like I bought, and who have the big ads, not the tiny ones in the magazine like mine, who they care about most. Those people don't even have to object to posts that are negative toward their products because those posts are usually deleted before they even have a chance to see or complain. These advertisers are permitted to post threads that hike their sales and all, even repeatedly. I know this from first-hand experience. That is just the way it is, and whether you like it or not, what the OGR forum has become. Its not illegal, not even unethical.

My first point is that that is just the way it is. Maybe it doesn't explain why they are consistently rude to people, but as I said, often monetary success is judged as the beginning and end of how retrospective you need to be about "how good a job am I doing" and so: don't expect it to change. I don't see how they _can _change without killing the cash cow. 

So I don't really blame them or have any animosity for them for that. The reasons I lost respect for them is that they are making so much money they could afford to:

1) Learn to be respectful of newcomers and people who disagree with them (for example, using the word "lash up" to describe two or more locos running together, etc. - I had a post deleted because of that alone). It actually would not cost them anything to be a little more tolerant of "newcomer ineptitude" or people who disagree with them (And by the way, I've heard Union Pacific executives use that term, so . . . ).

2) Make the effort to police the forum for "bad activity" with specificity even when and as it is more work. My experience was that the typical reaction to any nasty post on a thread was just to delete the entire thread, rather than go back look for, find, and cut out only the several bad posts. Certainly its easy just to delete the entire thread, but it strikes me as incredibly lazy given the damage and offense you are making to participants who put a lot of thought into their posts, etc. And the fact is, it seems to me that they are making so much money, they could afford to do it right. 

In conclusion, I don't think that forum will change. In fact I expect the OGR forum to evolve further, until it becomes a forum equivalent of something like _Brides _Magazine: completely dominated by ads and not even trying to pretend otherwise, with all of its "content" ads or not, driven and shaped by advertisers, etc. This is not necessarily an entirely bad thing: if you are a bride you go to _Brides_ Magazine when you are planning a wedding, and frankly its the ads and ad-related "articles" and advice you want. And, unless you are a fool, you recognize what you are reading and that it might not be entirely objective, and take that into account. But you still go there and it still serves a purpose.

In that vein, I read the OGR forum every week, for example checking it on Tuesday when Menards first posts its teasers each week, etc.: nowhere else can I find as good a guide to what products are coming out this week, and which retailer is selling what product for the lowest price with free-shipping today. By doing so, I ad to their hits count and so I am helping them in running this advertiser-dominated business. Fine.
I don't participate as a member because I don't like all that comes along with being in a forum thatis so heavily advertising-revenue dominated andrun so purely in that manner. Also, I will admit , I was more than a little put off by how rudely they communicated to members, not just me, but particularly and more egregiously (remember, I was an advertiser) several good friends who are here now, too.

So, further concluding points I'd like to ask new and old forum members here to think about are: 
1) Be really tolerant and _inclusive _of new members and realize how daunting a new forum can be and how worried a newcomer may feel about showing their ignorance, etc. (We've all been there, but its hard to remember). Avoid an "clique-ness" - I have many good friends here, but I don't want to create circles and keep others out, as I saw sometimes done on that other forum (and have seen elsewhere on other non-toy-train forums). The more here, quite literally, the merrier. If everyone is inclusive, and participates, this will continue to be a forum that attracts and keeps people because it is just so good, just a much bigger one than it is now!

2) Be thankful that MTF has no-toy train advertising. I love it here, and I will add my thanks and recognition of Gunrunnerjohn and others who administer this site: they do a far superior job to their counterparts at OGR. But frankly, they have an easier time and job doing it, because they aren't constrained adn tempted by so many business conflicts. (And perhaps - just perhaps - I think they may be nicer, more polite and less arrogant people, too.).
So the next time you see Pop ads (as I am right now - for Lancer running shoes and Maytag water filers and GMC Acadias) _be thankful. _ After all, someone has to pay the bills for this site, and here, they are advertisers who aren't going to give a dambusters grunt if someone posts a note that their new such and such Northern doesn't run well, or that they had a bad experience buying from BiggestTrainRetailerOnTheInternet.com, etc. 

And perhaps, as I have done since day one, consider _not _turning off the display of ads. It is frustrating sometimes to see them, but the alternative could be worse: advertisers creating and hiking posts to the top several times a day(or a morning), calling the moderators to shape forum policy, or disguising themselves as forum participants and making gobs of nearly irrelevant posts about this or that to draw attention to their business. I hope this never happens. Seeing this ads is a small price to pay for such a wonderful forum.

Thanks for listening to me, everyone, whether you agree on not. 

Now I'm gonna go run trains for the rest of the day.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Eloquent post Lee. Well crafted and thought out. I believe it will help enlighten folks around here, both new and old.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think he's summed it up very well.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

This needed to be said. Great job, Lee.

We are free from folks who have an agenda that may be the opposite to what is in the best interests of the Forum members. We are free from full or part time employees who's income is tied to their Forum activities. It is very easy to encounter a conflict of interest for folks who try to act as employees and then as members. 

Your reasoning Lee is why we will continue to grow.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Lee, thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts and decisions in this post. As an S gauge person there are far fewer of us and amazingly many still post over at the OGRE forum. I hope they will move over here to MTF as well.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Wow, Lee's post has to be the longest ever on the forum. But very well-stated and enlightening.

Thank you for that, Lee.


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## arkady (May 15, 2013)

I was never actually harassed by the administrators of the OGR forum. What turned me off was the hard-line "there's-only-one-way-to-do-it; do _not_ disagree" attitude among a growing number of the posters.

Things seem much more easygoing here.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Nice Post Lee!

Some thoughts:

1) I do not care if OGRE changes or not. 

2) I do not visit OGRE, read it, or click on their ads, as I do not want them to get credit for hits, or anything else.

3) I do not subscribe to OGRE or buy it on the newstand

4) I cancelled a pre-order with Nassau Hobbies, and when they said they would need to keep the large deposit for the expensive Diesel I pre-ordered, I told them the following:

"That's fine go ahead and keep the deposit, I agree and understand. However, I would like you to know why I did this...basically I feel RM and AA are rude, immature, hypocrites, liars, and for every one good thing they do for the hobby, they do three bad things. I understand its their forum and their policy, but the issue is not the policy. It is their adverse attitude and disrespectful way they treat others. For this reason, I will not purchase from any Vendor that advertises on the OGRE forum and in the magazine".

5) A friend of mine in the same town I live in had his old layout and its replacement layout both featured in Classic Toy Trains magazine. Before the 2nd layout appeared in CTT, OGRE contacted my friend asking him if he would like to have his layout featured in OGRE. He politely told them he cannot at this time because he already made a commitment to CTT magazine. This put AM the Editor into a tirade against CTT and RC one of CTTs editors.
My friend was so appalled by the immature trashing OGRE and AM conducted, just to change the mind of my friend and break his commitment from CTT and go with OGRE for the layout artice instead, that he BLUNTLY told AM "Goodbye".

He cancelled his subscription to OGRE and refuses to buy OGRE issues, or visit the OGRE web site.

6) I have seen and heard how others are treated, I know how I was treated.

7) I would never ever would have imagined how such a fun hobby full of fatherly and grand fatherly type friendly folks could ever have a website and magazine like OGRE that contributes so much grief, anger, disrespect, and meanness into such a hobby.

8) As far as I am concerned, OGRE does not exist, I will not read it, buy it, or touch it in any of it's forms.

The last straw was when Lee Willis left OGRE. 
I had followed Lee's posts for many years. 

Lee Willis is a class act, i respect and admire him, he is a stand up guy, and represents everything good in this hobby and world of ours.
So when OGRE mistreats someone like him, that says all you need to know about the OGRE magazine, web site and forum.


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## josef (Jun 20, 2015)

Well said Lee. I use to come here once a week, now stop by twice a day. Your coming here is one reason, and also the forum has picked up with more post recently.
I was reprimanded when the post was going on OGRE about other interest people there had. It was deleted, the whole postings because it was not train related. 
I don't post much, more arm chair into reading. Beside, with crippling arthritis, its very painful to type.
Besides, I have to come here and sooner or later see Hollywood coming to your layout to film all them great westerns, and war films, filmed in the USA. Good place to unload them jeeps and tanks and let Hollywood film Bogart's "Sahara". 
Thanks for the entertainment.


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

Thank you Lee for what you have summarized. I too went through the OGRE ringer so to speak with any error or question I had was criticized on vocabulary, structure, and presentation many times before anyone would answer the content of the post. I had never entered into such a closed attitude group in my life and I have participated in many forums prior.

The attitude and structure at OGRE does chase away new users and young users most of all who are used to forums being run completely different. While there are times to be heavy handed in controlling the trolls a little feedback directly to the poster why would not hurt. There are many times that the OGRE forum seems to be overwhelmed with old grumpy trolls. There will never be new blood and young people staying in this hobby with such behavior. 

I signed up for this forum quite some time ago after getting beat up by numerous OGRE trolls and I have not posted much. Why? Well I do see a lot of the same people over here and while everyone here has been really nice I have been burned a bit too much. I decided to stat quiet in the background. Now with more people posting and less trolls I will participate a little more. 

Funny how I let my OGRE subscription run out and I have not felt compelled to renew. What a shame.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Thank you Lee for your comments. Now that it is out there I will say that I agree with the thesis that OGR is not going to change and probably won't decline very much. It has a significant membership and model train presence. My favorite comment about all of this is yours regarding the cuisine. My comment I have privately shared with several friends is "If you don't like the show, just change the channel. 

I understand the anger, frustration and loss associated with leaving something you have had a long relationship with. It's not unlike a divorce. Done that, been there. I received my telephone warning, I have had posts deleted and I have had friends treated very poorly. I don't like being threatened, I don't like unexplained deletions and don't mess with my friends. It made me angry and I "changed the channel." I really can't do anything more then that. 

We have had 4 significant threads in the last week regarding OGR. I wonder what our new friends think we went through? I guess all these things have to be said so people can have an outlet for their frustration, but there comes a time when you have to "git a move on." 

Time for me to finish my track project.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

I agree Wood. After all, this is about trains, a common interest for all here. However, we need to leave room and have empathy for those yet to come. I am sure they will want to "vent" once they reach free speech again.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

BobS said:


> I agree Wood. After all, this is about trains, a common interest for all here. However, we need to leave room and have empathy for those yet to come. I am sure they will want to "vent" once they reach free speech again.


Bob - I understand and agree...


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

I wish that venting was not necessary, but their highly questionable deeds just keep coming. There appears to be no end to it. I think that it is important for all to know what is motivating this migration. 

Obviously, there are those from the other place that don't particularly like it. They would be well served to learn from what is being said about them. Unfortunately, knowing the arrogance of certain individuals, this will never happen. This reminds me of the WWII expression about the torpedo's and full speed ahead. 

The next Chapter (venting as Wood affectionately calls it ) will drive this point home in spades. Stay tuned.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> This reminds me of the WWII expression about the torpedo's and full speed ahead.


Where were you in history class? 
You're just a few wars and few years off. :smokin:

The Battle of Mobile bay, 1864, Civil War, David Farragut said, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"!.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

Thanks for your post Lee. I do still logon occasionally to follow a few friends, but that is it. My gripe was the admins and the ones who thought they were "admins in training".


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

Big Ed thanks, I must have flunked this course, Thanks for the correction. The point it makes is good however.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

*"admins in training"*

Gene, it appears they never finished the course or had a bad instructor.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Big Ed thanks, I must have flunked this course, Thanks for the correction. The point it makes is good however.


Well to your defense, it is a battle cry used by troops after that in many different wars.
But David was the first.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Don't know much about that other place but we do appreciate your participation here. With that said, I would think it a bad business model to have major contributors leave. I'll be honest, this isn't a major hobby with people jumping to get into it. So as your membership leaves, your viewership that followes them leaves too. To me it sounds like that will affect ad rates which in turn will bring in less and less money. Bottom line is that it sounds like they shot themselves in the foot.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

*"Bottom line is that it sounds like they shot themselves in the foot."*

Well said, but in this case, I think they went out of their way to shoot themselves in "both feet".


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

I would say more like a chainsaw at both shins......


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## bill937ca (Jul 18, 2014)

Well put Lee and very interesting. I enjoy your efforts, new and old.


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## tabkld93 (Oct 18, 2012)

It really is a shame that grown men can't control themselves. I use the forums for inspiration and advice. There is a current post on the OGRE asking for help on a "lash up". There are two replies that are either making fun or bashing the term. Neither offerd to help. One of the replies was from RM, the publisher. What a disgrace.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

tabkld93 said:


> It really is a shame that grown men can't control themselves. I use the forums for inspiration and advice. There is a current post on the OGRE asking for help on a "lash up". There are two replies that are either making fun or bashing the term. Neither offerd to help. One of the replies was from RM, the publisher. What a disgrace.


I got curious and read that threat and you're right, the first 2 replies are a disgrace, especially the one from RM. After reading something like that, it's obvious that the owners/operators (or should I say administrators and moderators?) have become too arrogant and cocky. They can have their forum. I would much rather hang out here.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

tabkld93 said:


> It really is a shame that grown men can't control themselves. I use the forums for inspiration and advice. There is a current post on the OGRE asking for help on a "lash up". There are two replies that are either making fun or bashing the term. Neither offerd to help. One of the replies was from RM, the publisher. What a disgrace.


I thought that was one of the most immature things I saw on that forum. Beyond the fact that everyone knows what it means, so it works well to communicate the concept, it is a legitimate term as far as I can tell. As I've said before, I've heard Union Pacific executives use it in meetings about running their railroad, and seen it on gobs of railroading websites and in reference books I have. I even came across it yesterday in the new Lionel catalog. To the people trying to police/correct/insist they know better, insisting they know best is just a way of trying to show they know more and are therefore better and truer model train enthusiasts than you. I have little respect for such people, and I appeal to everyone. _ Please don't let it happen here._


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Lee, 
Your first post was well worded and expressed my and judging from the replies, other member's feelings exactly. Thanks for posting.


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

correct or not, railroad employees have used the term lashup for years. if its good enough for the big boys it ought to be good enough for modelers and their toys.

sounds like somebody over there needs to get their head out of their A hole!
oops, dare i say that.


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## FVTrains (Jun 19, 2015)

I came here because I followed my friend, Lee Willis. I do like this forum, but I must admit that I don't mind the other forum all that much. That being said, as you all can tell, I don't post much, for many reasons. Maybe that is why I don't have as much experience with "the dark side."

I have a lot of respect for Lee and for Gunrunnerjohn, both of whom have helped me in the past. I still read things over there at the "other place," but I skip over the ridiculous parts. All of you have said what I feel about many folks far more eloquently than I can.

I have personally met several of the folks who contribute to the other site, and I do like them as people, both the senior leadership as well as the frequent (respectable) contributors. Sometime I have been guilty of being too quick to judge (at work, not on forums), due to a severe bout of "time compression" when I have far more to do than I have time. I cannot imagine what it would be like to "police" folks that are intent on proving that they are better than others.

So a tip of my cap to gunrunnerjohn and to all of you for being cordial, friendly, and not having anything to prove to anyone. I really learn a lot from all of your discussions and pictures; I just wish I had enough time with my layout to photograph and give back (like Lee does with his excellent "how I did it" threads he posts).

Regards to all, and thanks for letting me play here!

Bruce


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## Peter Herron (Jun 30, 2015)

*I moved my "Got the boot from OGR" post here:*

........after I sent this letter. By reply, he removed all my posts!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr Melvin, I am at a loss……..
........understanding your reasoning for closing the discussion about the current problem with eBay and Brass Imports. I am a Model Railroader through and through and am building a layout with hand laid code 100 track, my own turnouts, kitbashed and scratch built structures, etc etc. All but 2 of my 13 O standard gauge locomotives are Brass Models purchased second hand on eBay. To me it as much about model trains as any other source for trains. Without these sources I dare say there would be no Model Railroading as a hobby as we know it today.

Please reconsider your decision
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He also gave me the boot when I suggested the membership check out the Kickstarter project involving Sara Kelly and her efforts to make a film about model railroading called _Model Citizens,_ and see if they might be interested in supporting her efforts. Well that started a poop storm of some magnitude! In sum or substance I was told "How dare I try to drum up support and try to convince members to send money to this woman" Huh? There's a huge difference between bringing something to someone's attention to telling them they should support it.

As an aside, I was quite surprised at all the negativity to her project in other forums that would "allow" talk of anything so blasphemous as an educational film about model railroading! It's a trick, it will make fun of us etc etc. 

Bit off the subject but was there any mention of this here and what was the general gist or tone of the membership?

Thanks,

Peter


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Peter, 
If you do a search using "model citizen", there were a few posts starting back in January 2014, and the few who saw the post liked it. Nothing negative against the documentary and it would possibly increase people to join the Model Railroad Hobby, regardless of gauge, or years of interest.

This forum is very liberal with posts, and only if something were really negative in nature, and against people's judgements, would it be deleted.


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## bobyoung (Sep 21, 2015)

I'm glad I found this forum. I just could access the OGR anymore. I think it is my internet server. Anyway, I'm glad to be here and meet up with a lot of my old friends. I'll have to post a current picture. You wont recognize me from the old one. As my daughter said on Facebook: "Dad, isn't that an old picture?" Yes, daughter, but don't tell anyone."
Bob Young


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Welcome Bob, we don't mind if you use an old photo, or no photo.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Welcome! Your as young or as old as you want to be. And as your name implies , you're young glad to have ya Bob!


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## J. S. Bach (Sep 20, 2015)

Lee, that was a good read; I have noticed a lot of that myself. Anyway, I had been an OGR member before the switch to the current format; when the new one came along, it was stated that re-registration would not be required. Well, it was and I had to re-register and now my mailing address was _ required_; absolutely not, I thought (OGR would only need my mailing address if I were a subscriber to the print edition) so I did not complete the process. I have been an MTJ member since May 2007 so I still could get my train forum "fix". Fast forward to a few months ago and I finally "signed up" for two reasons.
One, and the most important, was to buy an item on the buy/sell board that I saw and wanted.
Two was to be able to correct a mistake such as "All B&O diesels were painted red." There were a few errors in the traction section that had bugged me so much that helped me finally bite the bullet. Note to self: Always wash the bullet before biting it!   :sly: 

Dave


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Two was to be able to correct a mistake such as "All B&O diesels were painted red." There were a few errors in the traction section that had bugged me so much that helped me finally bite the bullet. Note to self: Always wash the bullet before biting it!   :sly: 

Dave[/QUOTE]

Dave: even though washed and rinsed properly, sometimes, the bullet will bite you back.


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## J. S. Bach (Sep 20, 2015)

BobS said:


> Dave: even though washed and rinsed properly, sometimes, the bullet wiki bite you back.


Hey, at least it will be a clean bite! hwell: Seriously, it took several months from reading the mis-information to actually signing on; it was the freight car that was offered in the buy/sell forum that did it. I will stay registered mostly for that forum.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2015)

Welcome Bob. Will you be at the upcoming York Meet?


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## bobyoung (Sep 21, 2015)

*York*



Passenger Train Collector said:


> Welcome Bob. Will you be at the upcoming York Meet?


I have never been to York, but I suspect it is like the fly-in at Oshkosh. One must make reservations at least a year in advance for accommodations. I am not going this year, but probably next year.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2015)

We will look forward to seeing you at the York Meet next year, Bob.


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## HenryL (Nov 20, 2007)

I re discovered this forum (apparently I joined years ago when there was little O scale traffic) after noticing the ORG forum posts diminishing. (OGR name is necrails). Perhaps a bit of education is in order as I fail to find a reason that the term lash up would garner such ire. Am I missing a cultural reference somewhere? Clearly there was some animosity but as a casual user I never saw a reason for the passion. It is nice to have some other place to visit however, perhaps I can find a way to contribute here.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're contributing just by being here.  Welcome to the forum.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

HenryL said:


> I re discovered this forum (apparently I joined years ago when there was little O scale traffic) after noticing the ORG forum posts diminishing. (OGR name is necrails). Perhaps a bit of education is in order as I fail to find a reason that the term lash up would garner such ire. Am I missing a cultural reference somewhere? Clearly there was some animosity but as a casual user I never saw a reason for the passion. It is nice to have some other place to visit however, perhaps I can find a way to contribute here.


To RM it is a bad word, even though Lionel uses the term...which is why many O gauges do.

Did someone say LASH UP?


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## WildcatRR (Jul 28, 2013)

*lash up*

Why is lash up a bad word? What is the so called meaning of the bad word? Help I'm confused!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lionel and MTH both talk about MU configurations using the term lashup.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2015)

Nice to have you back, Henry L.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2015)

HenryL, welcome to the forum.


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## Ricky Tanner (Sep 19, 2015)

Lee,Very well stated and as I suspected greed was involved.I've been looking over what you've been posting here and enjoying it! Keep those creative juices flowing and inspire us! Gunrunner John-I've aways enjoyed your technical insight and bits of wisdom for years and am looking forward to many more here. FYI, I was known as "Boomer" over there.


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## PatKn (Jul 14, 2015)

Welcome to MTF Ricky


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## bigtruckpete (Nov 8, 2015)

Ah, ha!! I found you guys!!

Now we know the rest of the story. (sorry Paul Harvey!)

This post has been helpful and cathartic since I often thought I must be over reacting to what I was seeing.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, glad you found us. When i saw this thread today I thought, "Wow, that is old, I've been here five and a half months now. 

Best forum, car, trains, modeling, I have ever been on. 

Welcome!


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

It is good to see you here, bigtruckpete


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Lee,

Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences. I do appreciate it. We've never met in person, but feel I've gotten to know you a little through your well written and designed posts that are full of a lot of useful information. 

My beliefs are remarkably close to yours. Quite candidly, it was a comment on a post you had regarding some weathering you did on a boxcar that ended it for me on that site. Someone who had a history of clearly being rude, did it again. The post was allowed to remain.

I had the opportunity to meet some of the principals of the other site at the York convention a few years ago. When I walked away, I got the feeling that they were doing me a favor instead of the other way around. I once owned television stations and without the viewers, I would have had nothing. 

We are all in the same hobby and no one has all the answers. For me, it's a journey of learning and have enjoyed it. I've learned so much from a lot of guys on here and some who still post over at the other forum. At some point, I'm going to have buy Gunrunner John a steak dinner as he has helped me a lot. I, too, still look at the other forum for answers to challenges. 

Thanks again.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmm... I'll be at York in the spring!


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## josef (Jun 20, 2015)

Todd Lopes said:


> Lee,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences. I do appreciate it. We've never met in person, but feel I've gotten to know you a little through your well written and designed posts that are full of a lot of useful information.
> 
> ...


Steak Dinner? I was going for a "Happy Meal" if I ever met him or Lee.


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## rboatertoo (Aug 5, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Hmm... I'll be at York in the spring!


Thanks John, your posted triggered me to make my hotel reservations for April York!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

josef said:


> Steak Dinner? I was going for a "Happy Meal" if I ever met him or Lee.


I'll only be happy with a steak! 




rboatertoo said:


> Thanks John, your posted triggered me to make my hotel reservations for April York!!


Good catch, I think I'll do that as well. I ended up staying in a different place this time, six weeks isn't enough lead time!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I think we all have a steak in this!


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## NTHILL (Nov 12, 2015)

I was glad this old thread came back up. I for one just joined and until a few weeks ago I couldn't figure out where all the folks that I followed had gone. Thanks for the explanation Lee. I always enjoyed your topics, like cleaning Fastrack with simple green. You saved me from one big headache. I'm still learning the new site and have enjoyed it so far. Nick


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

Bravo Lee!! :appl:

When I got back into trains this was the first forum I found as well as GRJ. O was a little slow and then I found OGR.

I was new to train forums and tried to sell a few things that I had. I remember being chastised and almost yelled at for the little amount I was reducing price. Like I said I didn't know but did know what I had paid!

After several run ins like that and finding the Where is PTC threads, I came back over here. I still dabble over there but mostly reading about repairs.

Compared to many of you I'm still a newbie, but certainly enjoy the MTF!


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

:appl:As other have said BRAVO LEE. You and others have hit the nail on the head. Great Forum and we even have shirts and jackets!!!!


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## Joe Hohmann (Nov 5, 2015)

NTHILL said:


> I was glad this old thread came back up. I for one just joined and until a few weeks ago I couldn't figure out where all the folks that I followed had gone. Thanks for the explanation Lee. I always enjoyed your topics
> 
> 
> Same here. I, also, hated it when they deleted an entire thread when they had a issue with one or two posts. As far as advertisers HERE goes...saw a Zappos ad and ordered a pair of Sperry Topsiders for $95. (just doing my part).


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Just as long as you didn't support the ads that Lee gets


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## davidkeith89 (Nov 5, 2015)

I have to say, I've been lurking here for a few weeks. I hope to gain the confidence and courage to participate. I've been a member of both the CTT and the OGR forums as well as forums for my other interests. I've never had much luck participating in most forums. At a former Fiesta dinnerware forum I actually had another member who felt the need to contradict or challenge any post I made. After joining the OGR forum in 2012 or so to find help with a problem, I received mostly snarls. The people over at CTT did offer suggestions. In the end, Lionel came through for me and rebuilt the problem locomotive.

Ever since my spouse bought a new transformer for my 50th birthday a few years back, I've rediscovered my old set from my childhood and bought many of the items I wanted as a child. I've made mistakes, tried to learn from them and I've tried to learn from the experiences of the forums at OGR and CTT. I've just learned that I'm just not going to get too much help at those two forums. Good reading, but I do have enough self-esteem issues without some anonymous poster making me feel like an idiot (OGR forum) for not knowing how to disassemble a locomotive and fix the issue and put it back together. I let Mike Reagan at Lionel take care of that problem.

The OP of this thread has given me hope that I can participate here, even though my knowledge and skill sets are still at the beginner stages. I'm enjoying my time here!


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2015)

*"The OP of this thread has given me hope that I can participate here, even though my knowledge and skill sets are still at the beginner stages. I'm enjoying my time here!"*

I am delighted that you decided to join and participate on the MTF. You will find out group both informative and eager to help with no "big egos".


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

David, I look forward to your posts and I am quite comfortable assuring you that a little teasing may come through (we love to play with words) but never snarking! Have fun and join in.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Welcome Dave, and don't be afraid to ask questions over here. Everyone has a different level of knowledge, and there is a wealth of information to be found here. Just pick the gauge you are most interested in, and start searching for what interests you, or want to learn. If you have a problem with a loco, or want tips on layouts, the info is here.

As Wood has mentioned, after you get your "feet wet" so to speak, and you get comfortable, you may get some light hearted joking. None of the joking is ever taken seriously, and is just to add to the fun this forum has to offer. Have a question, just ask. Have a useful tip that others can use, post it. This forum beats the others hands down!!!


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## Joe Hohmann (Nov 5, 2015)

poster making me feel like an idiot (OGR forum) for not knowing how to disassemble a locomotive and fix the issue and put it back together.


About the only electrical thing I can fix is replacing a burnt out lightbulb.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Remember guys...

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!

Every one of us started out at exactly the same skill level, _rank novice_. I also note that we all have our skills, and not everyone is going to be competent in every arena, that's the value of having a public forum where you can leverage the skills of people that have the talent in specific areas.


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2015)

John's comments really get to the point. What a treat it is on the MTF to have ALL questions answered in a friendly and helpful way. John is a big part of this.

Certainly sets us apart from other forums.


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