# How do I start prepairing for DCC from DC



## Southern

My lay out is DC. I will some day make the jump to DCC. I have started reading more about DCC. I know that I will have to replace the power supply, and add decoders to the engines. i am starting this tread as a place to keep all my conversion question in the same place. As i make repairs and up grades to my DC trains and layout I want to help make the future conversion essayer.

First set of questions. What is the constant power on the rails? DC? Volts? I have lights in some of my passenger cars and wan to add more,. But I do not want to have to go back and redo everything.

Second set of questions. I am replacing some of my atlas snap turnouts with pico insulfrog turnouts. I have to replace them because they are warn out. so if i am repairing I want to be able to up grade for the jump to DCC. Are these the the correct turn out for DCC? Will they work of both DC and DCC? i need good under table switch machines, are there good ones that will work with both DC and DCC. That brings up an other question. Di i need to even replace my switch machines? Can I just leave the same switches and switches in place?


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## shaygetz

The power is 16v AC...most lights will work within the usual voltage limitations.

I've had no real brand issues with DCC regarding track, I've seen them all operate with it, though no doubt some work better than others. As long as you don't exceed the item's normal voltage requirements, you should be fine.


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## NIMT

I get 14.5 V Out of my Digitrax DCC and it's kind of AC power... It's square wave AC. For your lighted cars you will want to do one of two things, Install a simple switch to be able to turn the light off when they are just sitting on the tracks or install a function decoder in it to allow you to turn the light on and off and also give you the bonus of being able to dim the lights!

Yes for DCC you always need to use Peco Insulfrog turnouts( not Electo frog), Atlas ones work well to!
You really don't need to change the switch machines or their workings to be able to convert unless you want to be able to control them from the controller instead of from the control panel.
If you want them controllable from the hand held controller then you will need to power them from a DCC decoder, the type and brand will depend on which Switch Machines you are using (slow motion, dual coil, servo).


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## Southern

Can I keep the wiring that i have to the tracks? I have it blocked out. Ever siding has it's own switch electric feed. If I can kill the power to a sidding with the old block switches then i will not need to put decoders or switches in the lighted cars for when then are parked. right?


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## Southern

NIMT said:


> Yes for DCC you always need to use Peco Insulfrog turnouts( not Electo frog), Atlas ones work well to!
> You really don't need to change the switch machines or their workings to be able to convert unless you want to be able to control them from the controller instead of from the control panel.
> If you want them controllable from the hand held controller then you will need to power them from a DCC decoder, the type and brand will depend on which Switch Machines you are using (slow motion, dual coil, servo).


 
Good to hear that. Not changing the turnout will save on the cost of changing to DCC. I have 21 on the layout so I will not change them over. The way that I run my trains I have to have snap switches. I cut it to close when running more than one train.


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## NIMT

Southern said:


> Can I keep the wiring that i have to the tracks? I have it blocked out. Ever siding has it's own switch electric feed. If I can kill the power to a sidding with the old block switches then i will not need to put decoders or switches in the lighted cars for when then are parked. right?


Yep you can keep the wiring the way it is, and have controlled sidings... But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you'll want to switch it over in a short time...It's a lot easier to have power to all the tracks all the time!


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## Southern

NIMT said:


> But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you'll want to switch it over in a short time...It's a lot easier to have power to all the tracks all the time!


the key word is switch. If I switch all of the block switches on then there is power to all the track.

What I am trying to figure out is what is the lest I have to do to convert the layout to DCC. If I leave the tracks powered the way that they are it will be less work removing all of the insulated rail joiners.

The old turnouts are old Atlas snap switch turn outs. Do i need to replace these be for converting to DCC? I am not going to run the switched by DCC any time soon, Just the loco's for starters.


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## mopac

I got my DCC not long ago and it was just taking power wires
from DC transformer and hooking them to DCC command station.
I changed nothing. I don't really have a real layout just what I call
my test track. It does have some atlas turnouts and 1 blocked
siding. I thought about the lighted passenger cars also. Untill
you get decoders in them switching power off to siding will work.
I don't have my switch machines hooked up so I don't know how
it will work on your snap machines.


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## JohnAP

When you convert to DCC, all you have to do is switch all of your current block switches to the on position and leave them. You could also use them if you want to run a DC locomotive, so you can park it on a siding, for instance, and switch off the power to avoid damage to the DC loco from leaving it sit on a DCC powered track.


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## Southern

So If all of the DCC equipment is off of the track, I can still run DC equipment? Is this something that only some DCC controllers can do?


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## Southern

Right now my block switches have tree positions, (Cab A, off, Cab B).
Can I can I leave one cab DC and hook the other on to DCC? If that is passable then I can take my my time converting the locos over to DCC.

I have customers that will have to shut down there factories if there is no rail service.:laugh:


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## mopac

I would not plan on running your dc engines through your dcc system very much.
From what I have heard on the forums here it is not good for the motors and can
burn them out. Can it be done , yes. Just saying you could be asking for trouble.
I did it once and the dc engines make a funny singing noise (normal on a dcc system).
I didn't like it. Just change your track power wires to a dc transformer if you want to run dc engines. Just my opinion.


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## Southern

mopac said:


> Just change your track power wires to a dc transformer if you want to run dc engines. Just my opinion.


That is what i want to do. I do not see any reason that I can' leave the wires hooked up through a cab selection switch. Have any of y'all done this?


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## sstlaure

In theory you could do that, however you're leaving yourself wide open to inadvertently throwing a switch and damaging something.

I can't count how many times my kids or myself have leaned on the layout throwing a selector switch and shutting things down.

I wired my whole layout in isolated blocks simply to make debugging any shorts easier (can isolate to just the affected section.) I haven't yet installed my DCC system yet as I want to get all of the track laid and debugged DC first.


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## Southern

I have a reverse loop on my layout. what if any thing is needed to wire it for DCC?


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## cv_acr

Southern said:


> the key word is switch. If I switch all of the block switches on then there is power to all the track.
> 
> What I am trying to figure out is what is the lest I have to do to convert the layout to DCC. If I leave the tracks powered the way that they are it will be less work removing all of the insulated rail joiners.


Just replace the DC power supply with the DCC command station and throw all the block switches over to the DCC system and just like that the entire layout is now DCC. (BTW, having power to all the track is perfectly fine in DCC, only the engine(s) you're directly controlling will move. The whole idea behind command control is that you never have to throw another track power toggle switch ever again (except for the occasional maintenance and troubleshooting purpose.))

For all the talk of "wiring for DCC", if you can figure out how to properly wire a layout into blocks for DC, you've pretty much got the skills you need for handling DCC. There's really nothing special or different about wiring DCC track, since a circuit is a circuit and a short is a short regardless of whether you have DC or AC power to the rails. The only caveat with DCC is that it is more sensitive to MOMENTARY shorts than DC, e.g. from a wheel bridging a gap between two rails of opposite polarity. In DC the power loss caused by the short is probably so brief as to be unnoticeable, but the DCC system will very quickly shut itself down for a second as soon as it detects the short. 

I always get the Peco Insul-frog and Electro-frog turnouts mixed up as to which is which. Any switch that has a solid metal frog will work fine in DCC with the following qualifications:
- if the frog is fully isolated and un-powered there will never be a problem as far as the DCC system is concerned. Depending on how long the frog is though, the dead spot could affect small short-wheelbase switchers (especially little steam switchers or 2-axle diesel "critters").
- if the frog is powered by contacts from the switch machine, running through a switch set against you will cause a short.
Now, if you're paying attention you'll actually note that the above two points are fully true whether your layout is DC or DCC! But here's the fun part - DCC allows for the use of "auto-reversing" circuits, and there's companies that make these electronic circuits that can be used to power frogs. No more dead spots AND no more chance of shorts (unless you pile up cars all over the place as a result of derailing through a trailing switch and one of those manages to cause a bridging short ).

When people talk of switches that are DCC-unfriendly, what they really mean is a switch with plastic insulating frog, where the rails in the frog are close enough together that a wheel passing through the frog could actually contact rails of opposite polarity at once (ie. the insulating space is very small). Remember that a short is a short and wiring for DCC is really no different that DC except for that momentary short thing I mentioned above. In analog DC the arcing caused by the wheel momentarily shorting between the two rails at the frog would be so quick as to not be noticed, but in DCC it could be slow enough to trip the circuit protection. (Not that the short itself happens faster or slower of course, but the electronics of the DCC command station is much faster to perceive it that you are.)


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## cv_acr

Southern said:


> I have a reverse loop on my layout. what if any thing is needed to wire it for DCC?


Reversing loops must be handled exactly the same way whether you're wiring for analog DC or DCC.

However for DCC you can get automatic polarity-reversing circuits to replace your reversing toggle switch. (They won't work with analog DC track power). Or you can manually toggle the polarity with the toggle switch just like the loop is currently wired for DC.


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## cv_acr

Southern said:


> Right now my block switches have tree positions, (Cab A, off, Cab B).
> Can I can I leave one cab DC and hook the other on to DCC? If that is passable then I can take my my time converting the locos over to DCC.
> 
> I have customers that will have to shut down there factories if there is no rail service.:laugh:


That can be done, however if one block is set to DC and the next one beside it to the DCC system and an engine runs over the gap and effectively combines the two circuits, the possibility to really screw up your electronics is there. (I don't know for sure what could actually happen, but I'm not sure I'd want to experimentally find out.)

If you're careful enough to make sure that never happens, then yeah, it'll work fine... 

(Also note that if you install any auto-reversing units like those mentioned in my above posts those only work with DCC. They won't work with analog DC.)


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## NIMT

Everyone is giving you some great advice!:thumbsup:
Mine would be once you start with DCC don't look back at DC...Trying to mix DC with the DCC will only give you headaches and very possibly cost you some serious $$ if you make the slightest mistake!


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## Southern

I want to make the leap to DCC all at once. The truth is that it is not in my budget.

I am not gong to try and run a DCC engine on DC. If a DCC equipped engine is on a DC powered track will the decoder be damaged? I assume that it will. I want to avoid costly mistake, which is why i am on here asking questions.


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## Southern

If I ever do have the lay out in between DC and DCC I will never have DCC equipped trains on the layout when the DC transformer is plugged in to the wall or visa versa.


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## Southern

As for the reverse loop i guess it would be best to swithch it manully untill all of the trains are DCC.


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## Southern

cv_acr said:


> In DC the power loss caused by the short is probably so brief as to be unnoticeable, but the DCC system will very quickly shut itself down for a second as soon as it detects the short.


This Is some of the best information in this tread. I have a few cars that make sparks (shorts) at a few points and will have to be fixed first.


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## NIMT

You can run a DCC engines and Locos on DCC without doing it any damage.
It's really a matter of shorting the DCC and DC Systems together that worries me.
Yes your going to have to leave the reverse section manual till it you only use DCC.


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## cv_acr

Southern said:


> I want to make the leap to DCC all at once. The truth is that it is not in my budget.
> 
> I am not gong to try and run a DCC engine on DC. If a DCC equipped engine is on a DC powered track will the decoder be damaged? I assume that it will. I want to avoid costly mistake, which is why i am on here asking questions.


A lot of decoders out there are "Dual-mode", meaning they will also operate on straight analog DC. The electronics will probably affect the starting speed of the engine, so you might not be able to run it in a multi-unit lashup with other units, but no harm will come to the decoder.


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## JohnAP

I have run my DC locos extensively on my DCC layout (Digitrax Super Chief Xtra) without any problems. You DON'T want to leave a DC loco on a powered DCC track without it being in motion however.


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## Southern

*DCC help needed*

OK NIMT, I got some DCC trains. you win. 

Now I need help. I did not want to buy DCC. I bought a set of E8/9 A-B (both powered) proto 2000 in Seaboard Coast Line. The Ebay add did not say anything about DCC, or DC. I should have asked.

neither of them moved when I tried to run them. I opened them and this is what I found.










I was expecting to see this.









Is there a way to run this as DC until the day comes that I switch over to DCC? Are the decoders any or are they to old?


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## NIMT

2 options or both options are avalable to you.
You can send me the decoders and I can program them up to run DC as well as DCC, and/or I can send you some 8 pin jumpers to run them without the decoders.


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## JohnAP

Option 3, if you have a club or a friend nearby who runs DCC, they can program the decoders to allow them to run on anolog (DC) systems. Most Digitrax decoders can be switched for analog operation on or off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZWHuOdrK38


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## Southern

Are all 8 pin jumpers the same? Do I need one out of a Proto 2K?
I know I will not be running DCC untill I have my own DCC, So I think it is best to leave the decoders out. That way I will not hurt them.


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## Southern

NIMT, option 2, what would be the cost of the dummy plugs? I am trying to find some local but if that falls through I need a back up plan.


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## Gansett

Option 4 Start drinking,,heavily.:laugh:


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## NIMT

Free just PM me your address!


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## warbyrd12

mopac said:


> I would not plan on running your dc engines through your dcc system very much.
> From what I have heard on the forums here it is not good for the motors and can
> burn them out. Can it be done , yes. Just saying you could be asking for trouble.
> I did it once and the dc engines make a funny singing noise (normal on a dcc system).
> I didn't like it. Just change your track power wires to a dc transformer if you want to run dc engines. Just my opinion.


Are you saying it is recommended to run ONLY DCC engines though a DCC system and NOT run DC locos on a DCC system? Is it o.k. to run DCC locos on a DC track? I don't want a burn-out on a DCC loco on a DC layout. I apologize...I haven't read the last few pages of this thread to get these answers.


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## mopac

I have not had any problems running DCC engines on DC. I have not heard of any problems. I just don't want to run DC engines on DCC. Many people do it. From what I have heard is don't let a DC engine sit idle on a DCC system too long. What is too long? Five seconds or five minutes? I don't know.


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## Carl

First, you might consider a loan from the bank . It can get expensive.


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## Brakeman Jake

If you try a DCC engine on DC powered track,two things may happen...
if "analog mode" is set to "on",the engine will run just fine with may be a slight loss of power due to the decoder's own consumption,real minor though.
Then if "analog mode" is "off",the engine simply will not run,no harm done.You'll need to reset "analog mode" to have it running.However,this applies only to "dual mode" decoders.Older decoders may not have the "analog" feature so will run on DCC only BUT will not be damaged if you try them on DC,simply won't work.

The other way around...DC on DCC powered track...it can be done with what is called "zero stretching" (Digitrax in occurence) but opinions differ widely on the matter.We,at the local club,had a discussion with a guess mechanical engineer who was saying that in fact the motors saw no difference and couldn't be harmed this way and that the noise was only an undesirable side effect.Was he right?I can't tell but I suspect that if Digitrax permits it,it should be OK.

My opinion is that it can be done within limits...run the loco at fair speeds so the motor sees the current as DC but when you're done,remove it from the track.The annoying sound it does when sitting idle on DCC track doesn't mean anything good to me.


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## NIMT

Jake nailed it.
I have had a few DC loco get really warm on DCC, would it have died if it was on longer who knows but heat is not good!
I run DC locos on my DCC system right before I rip the guts out of them and install DCC.
There are way too many factors and variables to say if all engines will run on any DCC system without problems.
I've also fried a few engines on a strait DC system too!


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## Southern

Are the Digitrax DH123 decoders dual mode?


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## NIMT

Yep they are dual mode.
If you really want to run your engines before your plugs show up, just take a piece of wire the size if the plug pins and jump the 1to5 and the 4to8 pins and it will work, you wont have lights that is controlled by pin 6 and 3.
(5678) 
(1234)

*8.0 Analog Operation of Digitrax Decoders​*Analog operation occurs when Digitrax decoders are operated on DC or conventionally
controlled layouts. Automatic analog mode conversion is a feature
of most Digitrax decoders, which lets you run your decoder equipped loco on a
DC layout without having to re-program the decoder. There are a few things
you need to know about analog operation:
· Digitrax decoder equipped locomotives will not move until the voltage
is above 5 to 6 Volts DC. When operating decoder equipped locos on
DC power, increase the voltage quickly from zero to five volts for
best operation.
· Some decoder equipped locos may not operate smoothly on conventional
"pulse power." The decoders should be driven from a quality
smooth DC power supply when on a conventional layout. Some DC​​​​throttles/power supplies with proprietary control systems, such as "tracking
control," exhibit pulse power characteristics and may give unpredictable​
operation.


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## Southern

Thanks Sean (NIMT) I am going to wait and for the plugs that you are sending me.I need to know that everything , even the mars light so that I can leave positive feedback on Ebay.


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## Southern

Sean that was fast! I put them in the locos and I have movement forward and backyards. The light do not work. is it possible to jump out some of the pins and make them work? how are the pins numberd?
Thanks.


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## Brakeman Jake

TCS's website-DCC help-NMRA pin out...you'll have a coloured schematic of the eight pin plug.


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## Southern

Brakeman Jake said:


> TCS's website-DCC help-NMRA pin out...you'll have a coloured schematic of the eight pin plug.


 Thanks jake. Is this it?

http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/faq/Images/NMRA-PLUG%

The ones on my engine are not colored.


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## Brakeman Jake

The link doesn't work but I assume it is...indeed,the plug isn't coloured but your wires should be.If this doesn't work,you'll need someone else to help you.


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## Southern

Brakeman Jake said:


> The link doesn't work but I assume it is...indeed,the plug isn't coloured but your wires should be.If this doesn't work,you'll need someone else to help you.


I got the mars light working in forward. I had to cut two circuits on the plugs circuit board and connect two sets of other pins. Those 8 pin plugs are simpler than I thought.


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## NIMT

I was going to say those plugs should have already been jumpered for the lights but it sounds like your 8 pin sockets are wired backwards?
It happens with some equipment, look at the decoders that you took out and match up the colors off of them.


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## Southern

I have a chance to buy a New Super Empire builder Extra and a PS515 power supply. I do not know squat about it. would this make a good start?


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## NIMT

You don't want that one! it has limited programming ability.
You want the Super Chief Xtra!


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## Southern

Thanks i will pass it up.


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## warbyrd12

*DCC locos on a DC layout*

After reading much of this thread, I am a little confused...(something which is very common with me  ). 
I have DC running at the moment, but most, if not all of my locos, are DCC. I have not had any issues/problems related to running a DCC loco on a DC layout.
Is it o.k. to run these DCC locos on a DC system? Does it depend on the type/brand? For example, a BLI T1 4-4-4-4 ,Rivarossi 4-8-8-4 Big Boy or a Bachmann J-Series have ran on my DC with no problems other than the fact that some of the features like certain sounds do not work... and my curves are too sharp. I spent around $400 on a couple of these engines, and I would cringe if I ruined them due to stupidity and lack of MRR knowledge. I can assure you that I have no idea what I am doing with this hobby :retard:, but I am trying to learn as I go, and this forum has helped me out greatly. So...if you read a question that I have and chuckle at my ignorance, I will be the first one to tell you how "newbie" I am, but that's why I am here. My 5yr old is a big Thomas fan, and I decided to get back into this hobby after a long break. Now that I have somewhat of a basic layout, I too have an itch for MRR again. Thanks for any and all info. Bill


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## NIMT

Bill,
You were exactly right when you said does it depend on the type of loco you have! It also depends on the brand of decoder too.
Get a DCC system to run those engines and then they really would shine!


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## warbyrd12

Thanks NIMT.

Before I read this post, I bought an
MRC PRODIGY model 1408 for $113.00.
I hope this is what I need.? lol. I like to buy things and THEN see if it is useful later on down the road. Sometimes I get lucky and everything works out. Sometimes things will sit around until I find use for them. I'm antsy to get started i guess. Did I make a mistake in purchasing this system?


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## NIMT

I personally like the Digitrax, and second choice would be NCE. The prodigy is a simple starter DCC system, but still much more advanced than the Bachmann DCC. It will help you get your feet wet in the DCC pond!
You will be able to do about 75% of what DCC has to offer and that's a great start!:thumbsup: 
You got a good deal on it and you should be able to get your money back out of it when you want to upgrade to a bigger, better DCC system.
The only real downfall to the MRC units is that they lack some functions and control of larger systems!


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## Southern

NIMT said:


> You don't want that one! it has limited programming ability.
> You want the Super Chief Xtra!


I ran my E/8 AB units on a big DCC layout this weekend. I really liked the DCC. It was a Digitarx. I do not know which one but I was told that is would store the addresses of 999 loco, ( if I got the right )

Is the SCFXD8 the one that you are recomending?


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## Brakeman Jake

This is a question that is raised all the time.Quality wise,all Digitrax systems are good.That said,you can buy an Aveo,an Impala or a Cadillac...all three will get you to work but with different functionalities.What do you need and what are you willing to pay is the deciding factor.

My opinion here...others may not agree.I personnally recommend the Zephyr if you want a basic system.It lacks in power (2.5 amps) but will do everything you might want.For a relatively small layout and/or limited amount of locos,it will get the job done.

If you want more power,then my choice is any of the systems that come with either a DCS100 or DCS200 command station.I'd stay away from the sets that offer a DB150 as a command station...the DB150 has limited programming functions.

Then you'll have to decide...do you want wireless operation?A neat option on larger layout.Duplex is also offered...not necessary...but nice to have.That's what I call the Cadillac.Take the time to read,visit the Digitrax website and ask any other question you may (and will) have on this forum.


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## Southern

Thanks Brake man. I need wireless to use at the club as the lay out is in two buildings. I have to go out side to get to the other end of the tunel. I want to have the Rolls Royce of DCC.










That first bay door is my office.


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## Brakeman Jake

But you don't need the full system for the club as they have it already.All you need is a radio throttle (UT4R,DT402R,with the "R" suffix) and you're set for the club.You may not need the Rolls-Royce system at home but then if you can afford and want it...well...go for it.


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## tjcruiser

Southern,

Wow! That's quite the impressive fleet!!!

(I hope there's no birds flying around overhead!  )

TJ


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## Southern

Brakeman Jake said:


> But you don't need the full system for the club as they have it already.All you need is a radio throttle (UT4R,DT402R,with the "R" suffix) and you're set for the club.You may not need the Rolls-Royce system at home but then if you can afford and want it...well...go for it.


With dc now run four trains with at least two engines. I have plans to double the size of the layout. I not want to have to upgrade the DCC system because I did not get the right one the first.


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## Southern

tjcruiser said:


> Southern,
> 
> Wow! That's quite the impressive fleet!!!
> 
> (I hope there's no birds flying around overhead!  )
> 
> TJ


Thanks TJ. None of them are mine. I just help to keep them running.


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## Southern

Will any Digitrax throttle work with any digitrax system? I am asking about the basic operation of the trains. I under stand that some are not wireless and need to be plugged in. I want one really good one for me and low end ones for the grandkids.

Is that short cord that come with them the same as a house phone cord?


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## NIMT

Southern,
Yes the SCFXD8 (link) is the Rolls Royce of DCC systems.
Its a Super Chief Xtra Duplex throttle 8 amp unit.
The command station is the DCS200, very capable system!
If you want the throttle to also be able to work at the club you will need to find out if they are running a duplex or simplex radio system...You can look at the front of the receiver panels to tell this... and they might run both... UR91 is a simplex radio receiver and the UR92 is the Duplex radio receiver.
One type will not work on the other types receiver in radio mode but they will work together in IR/ or tethered mode.

If you buy a group setup you will also need a power supply to run it, the best supply for this unit is a PS2012 (link) it comes with 5 amp overload protection you will need to bump them up to 8 amp.

While the SCFXD8 will set you back a penny or two you won't ever be disappointed in the power or performance of the system!


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## NIMT

Southern said:


> Will any Digitrax throttle work with any digitrax system? I am asking about the basic operation of the trains. I under stand that some are not wireless and need to be plugged in. I want one really good one for me and low end ones for the grandkids.
> 
> Is that short cord that come with them the same as a house phone cord?


You can get a DT402D (link) for you!
And either a UT4 Tethered or a UT4D Duplex radio for the Grandkids!

The cords for the Digitrax system are different than a home telephone system, they are a 6 wire cord.


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## manchesterjim

NIMT said:


> You can get a DT402D (link) for you!
> And either a UT4 Tethered or a UT4D Duplex radio for the Grandkids!
> 
> The cords for the Digitrax system are different than a home telephone system, they are a 6 wire cord.


For what its worth.....when all I'm doing is running my train, I really like the UT4 series.....I like the throttle knob and the fwd/rev switch. This is my "weapon of choice" at shows with the club.

Jim


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## Southern

manchesterjim said:


> For what its worth.....when all I'm doing is running my train, I really like the UT4 series.....I like the throttle knob and the fwd/rev switch. This is my "weapon of choice" at shows with the club.
> 
> Jim


The club has some of the radio equipped UT4 I will try on next month.

Are all of the Digitrax radio throttles duplex?


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## manchesterjim

Southern said:


> Are all of the Digitrax radio throttles duplex?


Nope.....there are plenty of Simplex (one way) throttles out there. I know that the club I left in NH/MA supported both types.

Jim


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## Southern

manchesterjim said:


> Nope.....there are plenty of Simplex (one way) throttles out there. I know that the club I left in NH/MA supported both types.
> 
> Jim


 Is a digitrax duplex backward compatable with a simplex system?


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## manchesterjim

Southern said:


> Is a digitrax duplex backward compatable with a simplex system?


Unfortunately no....they are on two different sets of frequencies. However the Infrared functions of both throttles are compatible. I would recommend against IR though....as you can imagine, you need line of site with the IR receiver lens in the UR91 (or 92).


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## NIMT

Yea what he said!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## manchesterjim

manchesterjim said:


> .as you can imagine, you need line of site with the IR receiver lens in the UR91 (or 92).


 WOW!.....Sometimes I think I sound like I might actually know something! LOL!


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## Carl

I would suggest a meeting with your banker to set up a loan


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## manchesterjim

Carl said:


> I would suggest a meeting with your banker to set up a loan


Second mortgage, sell the kids/grandkids or trade them for DCC "Stuff"....:laugh::laugh:


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## Southern

no need for a loan I am Selling a wolf. just kidding. I am saving up for it. hopefully I will have the cash by the end of summer.


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## Southern

What is this PC board called?


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## NIMT

Interface board / Dummy Board, I call them tool box trash! I pull them out of every engine that I DCC!







Some of them allow you to just plug a decoder in and go. They run the DC control of the lighting.

This Decoder is called an AT (atlas) Board, also used buy other manufactures too.
It replaces the Interface Board
You can get them in sound too!


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## Southern

*Down the DCC rabit hole I go*

I have bit the bullet! just like Alice I am going down the rabbit hole i just ordered a DCC system.

Help me!
LOL

*Digitrax-SCFX-SCFXD8 Spr Chf Xtr Dplx Rad 8amp*

*Digitrax-PS-PS14 Power Supply 15.2V DC*

*Digitrax-PS-PS2012 Power supply 20 Amp f/DCC:laugh::smokin:*


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## manchesterjim

Southern said:


> I have bit the bullet! just like Alice I am going down the rabbit hole i just ordered a DCC system.
> 
> Help me!
> LOL
> 
> *Digitrax-SCFX-SCFXD8 Spr Chf Xtr Dplx Rad 8amp*
> 
> *Digitrax-PS-PS14 Power Supply 15.2V DC*
> 
> *Digitrax-PS-PS2012 Power supply 20 Amp f/DCC:laugh::smokin:*


Congrats Southern! If I was just a smidge closer I'd offer to stop in and help!  But just go slow and you'll be fine!

Jim


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## NIMT

Welcome To The Insanity!
Oh...I meant to say fun!


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## mopac

Congrats Jim. I think very expensive but you will not want for more.
I bought the same setup earlier this year. I love it. I lied. You will want 
more. I am already thinking of getting a used 8 amp booster. Not much over $100.
Compared to the initial cost, not bad. I certainly don't need it yet but that never
stopped me before. I found the digitrax very easy to set up and operate. Just watch
your shorts. Do read your "quick start" instructions.


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## Southern

Know if i only had a decoder.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You went deluxe, now you need some DCC trains.


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## Southern

OK I got it all hooked up. Now I can sit on the other side of the room and run a DC train. LOL


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## NIMT

My bad I've got all the DCC toys here for you!


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## Southern

It is still cool. I get to have the lights stay on the passenger car that I am pulling around behind a singing tyco. Steff ( my wife ) asked , " so you spent all that money so you could sit on the couch?" Once I explained to her what it can do she told me to get busy drawing up the plans for the expansion.


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## NIMT

Southern said:


> Once I explained to her what it can do she told me to get busy drawing up the plans for the expansion.


Now that's a true keeper!:thumbsup:


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## Southern

Someone should get out side of my window. I am fixing to throw the this out the window without opening the window!! I don't like learning curves!


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## New Berlin RR

Southern said:


> Someone should get out side of my window. I am fixing to throw the this out the window without opening the window!! I don't like learning curves!


if its Digitrax just put it in a box and send it to me, ill PM you my address if you want me to


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## Southern

I got a Great wife not only did she open the window she was out side the window with a net. I moved the progarming track closer to the DCS 200 controler. The learning curve is getting better.


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## NIMT

Get a PR3 and it will get even better!


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## Southern

NIMT said:


> Welcome To The Insanity!
> Oh...I meant to say fun!


 
You got that right!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Southern said:


> Someone should get out side of my window. I am fixing to throw the this out the window without opening the window!! I don't like learning curves!


I'm driving as fast as I can to get to the window!


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## New Berlin RR

NIMT said:


> Get a PR3 and it will get even better!


got it, ill tell you how it works when I get mine here  and it will be ok Southern you will learn just tell your great wife to send it all to me tho


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## Southern

What I learned from my first weekend working on a DCC layout

1. Do not try to get any sleep
2. Start with a known good working DCC Loco
3. Have the program track close to the DCC controller, not in the other room on the work bench. The program signal gets lost in the long run of wires.
4. The program track should be part of a siding so that the 0-5-0 (hand) switcher can quickly move the loco back and forth without removing the loco from the track.

I now have three DCC locos that are moving correctly. One is a E-8 B and dose not have any lights. Next is the E-8 A unit. This one has four LEDs that I have not gone to work yet. Last is a BNSF SD 60. i have been fighting this one the most. I have learned the most form this one also. I took the decoder out of another loco for it. The decoder had some odd setting on the speed and direction. I reset it and got the front light working in forward with the 0 FN key. I am new to DCC but I am almost sure that this NCE decoder is bad.


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## New Berlin RR

you forgot #5...


"post pictures so that the other members of MTF can see my locos and progress"


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## Southern

I did not have time for photo' I was to busy pulling out my thin gray hair. 

#6 Send both E-8s, A&B to North Idaho Model Trains for the conversion to DCC.


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## New Berlin RR

heres your #7 send un needed locos and/or DCC system to New Berlin RR :laugh::laugh:


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## Southern

With a lot of help from Sean it is getting better. i was trying to program a bad decoder. I sent that one in for replacement. I have got some of the lights working on another. Two of them move correctly. The Decoder Pro and PR3 make it much easier.


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## New Berlin RR

pardon the question but whats the "hand" switcher? Im guessing its a dummy loco you use to move the others? or am I at a loss? I just pick my trains up and place them on the program track I have near by...




Southern said:


> What I learned from my first weekend working on a DCC layout
> 
> 1. Do not try to get any sleep
> 2. Start with a known good working DCC Loco
> 3. Have the program track close to the DCC controller, not in the other room on the work bench. The program signal gets lost in the long run of wires.
> 4. The program track should be part of a siding so that the 0-5-0 (hand) switcher can quickly move the loco back and forth without removing the loco from the track.
> 
> I now have three DCC locos that are moving correctly. One is a E-8 B and dose not have any lights. Next is the E-8 A unit. This one has four LEDs that I have not gone to work yet. Last is a BNSF SD 60. i have been fighting this one the most. I have learned the most form this one also. I took the decoder out of another loco for it. The decoder had some odd setting on the speed and direction. I reset it and got the front light working in forward with the 0 FN key. I am new to DCC but I am almost sure that this NCE decoder is bad.


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## Guest

The "0-5-0" or "hand switcher" is exactly as your doing, moving them by hand.
The 0-5-0 meaning 0 lead wheels, 5 driving wheels, and 0 trailing wheels as in your hand.:laugh:


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## Southern

thoroughbreed said:


> The 0-5-0 meaning 0 lead wheels, 5 driving wheels, and 0 trailing wheels as in your hand.:laugh:


0-5(fingers)-0


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## mark olmstead

Do all loco's run on dcc or do i find the loco's with dcc equiped with this?


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## gunrunnerjohn

You must have a DCC equipped engine to run on DCC. Most (all) HO engines run on DC, even most of the DCC equipped ones should run on a DC layout. Obviously, to run with DCC, you also have to have the DCC system.


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## Southern

I now have 4 working DCC locos. DCC is great I wish I had of changed over years ago. I can run more trains in the same space. Thanks to all of you that helped with advice on DCC. Thanks NIMT for hooking up two of my locos with DCC sound. Now I have to convert them all to sound. LOL.


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## New Berlin RR

I wouldn't recomend all locos having sound (unless some you can set to be off or muted and not reset them to play sound when switched off) as it may get a bit loud and obnoxious running 6 locos at the same time with sound especially if you have them consisted together, been there done that and I usually wind up muting all the helpers so only the main loco (head unit) is making noise....


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## NIMT

DCC gives you compleate control of the sound and control to mute it or just turn it off. Just because you have a loco or engine sound equipped does not mean it has to sit on the rails drowning away! 
I have found over the years that most become annoyed with the sound in their Locos or engines because it was a cheap scratchy sounding unit.
True sounding loco's and engines can be a compleate joy to have running the layout!


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## New Berlin RR

ok Sean, is there a way that I can have certain locos muted when they turn on? as I have some that I always consist together and they are never ran as a head unit (my choice) but they all have sound and every time I turn the DCC controller (bachmann EZ command) they always all start making noise and I have to go and mute the two helpers...or is that just because im using something somewhat limited? if its just a limitation of the controller im ok with it, but would love to find a way to keep them muted when running consist as they rarely see head unit status (but I do want them with sound as they will be used in a yard setting alone)...


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## NIMT

Yes part of your problem lies with the controller your using. If you jump up to a full DCC system then you will have compleate control. 
The programing of each engine is differnt for each type of decoder, some decoders will allow the main engine of the consist to control all the functions of the consist including sounds. Others you will be required to make rules of the consist that make the helpers go silent when in a consist.


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## New Berlin RR

ok cool, I figured it would be something like that, Im gonna slowly get DCC (better system) in my layout for Digitrax


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## gunrunnerjohn

New Berlin RR said:


> I wouldn't recomend all locos having sound (unless some you can set to be off or muted and not reset them to play sound when switched off) as it may get a bit loud and obnoxious running 6 locos at the same time with sound especially if you have them consisted together, been there done that and I usually wind up muting all the helpers so only the main loco (head unit) is making noise....


Actually, when you do a lash-up of two or three locomotives, it's way cool to have all of them with engine sounds, they beat together and sound like a real consist! I do turn off the cab chatter and crew talk of all but the lead engine. I've tried the whistle both ways, my two Lionel Legacy PARR U-Boat engines sound really neat with both horns enabled!


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## New Berlin RR

cool !


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## Southern

I can turn the sounds on and off on each engine. I off set the bell rate by on so that they do not ring at the same time. When an loco is in a constant I still have full control of all functions other than speed and direction. I also set the engine sound not to come on until the throttle is in the first notch. I have the speed set so that it will not move until the 2nd notch. If the engine is sitting still with the light off the engine sounds will power down as if the loco was shutting down after 2 min. Also all of my sidings, and tracks are block and all new track will still be set up as blocks so that I can find shorts. Ya if i could not control the sound I would not want them on.


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## Brakeman Jake

Having sound equipped locos is just like having an occasional drink...moderation tastes much better.I've seen a few operate sound locos on the local club's layout and as much as sound can be an enjoyable experience,it can also become most irritating.Specially on a club layout,one has to consider that he's not operating alone,so if some people are thrilled by the sound,others may be litterally be most annoyed by it,myself being one of them.

On my last week visit to the club,I noticed a youngster operating a sound equipped FP45 who enjoyed blowing the horn continuously for no reason,like if he was chasing birds off the track.When moderately used at crossings,the horn is far less objectionable.The same with the bell...used in the yard is OK too.

The other main problem I see (or hear) is that sound are often set way too loud.My opinion is that sounds should be set so that they simulate loco sounds at some distance away when close to you,so that you practically don't hear them when they're something like 10-12 feet away or even closer on smaller layouts.


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