# 022 and 1122 switch cleaning...



## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

I have been lurking in the background gleaning gems from the forums and learning LOTS of good stuff about the things I'm interested in. I was so impressed by the camaraderie and community and helpfulness that I joined up. (Saluting smartly) Now I have a specific question. I have acquired 13 Lionel remote switches in the past week, all used of course, 4 1122's and 9 022's. They are not all in pristine condition but have been lovingly used. Some loved more than others. I'm missing all but two 1122 lanterns and all of the 022 machines and absolutely zero controllers. I love a challenge and don't mind refurbing and restoring these wonderful turnouts. My question is: I was planning on using Evapo-rust (which I learned about on this forum) on the sweaty/crusty ones (as I have done to a lot of the 027 track that I inherited) but was wondering how much I need to tear down/disassemble the turnouts in order to be safe when I immerse them in the Evapo-rust. I know that it's safe for plastic and non-ferrous parts, but I am not sure how much to remove before I clean/dip them. I haven't broken them down yet for surface cleaning. I do plan on cleaning well first, then dip. It seems that the 1122 units are all riveted on the bottom plate and I am not very experienced with pop rivets or a solder gun yet. ALL information/experience is listened to and heeded as I am an old/newbie to model railroading. Started when I was about 6yrs. old when my dad bought me a Tyco HO set for Christmas about 1953 which I still have and it runs like a champ. I haven't done any MRR since I was a youngster. Thanks all.


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## icolectto (Nov 28, 2012)

*Switch Cleaning*

Welcome Trainable,

I don't have the answer, but you are in the place to find out. The members here are the greatest ! ! !


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

How rusty are they? I usually just take a dreamal with a brass wheel and knock the rust off the rails that way. There is a sticky, about repairing switches. The controller can be replaced with regular switches. Easy enough to d. Depending upon where they are on your layout you might not even need a controller.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

*How rusty are they?*

That is the real problem, I don't know how rusty they are inside where I can't get to. The 1122 turnouts are riveted together under the track, the base plate and the bottom plate are riveted so I can't see the steel parts. There is some minor rust on a few of the parts on a couple of the 1122's that I can see, which makes me think that they may be "hiding" rust spots from me.
As for the 022's, I haven't really taken them totally apart yet. This is my Labor Day weekend project! Yay!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You can take them apart and reassemble with a small screw and nut. Check out the sticky, servo guys stuff. I dont know too much about the 1122s . Test them on a transformer, make sure they switch and if they have the anti derailing if it works. Oil up the moving parts and use contact cleaner on the electrical stuff. Just some basics. If they work well after there cleaned up a bit they probably don't have a lot of rust inside, or at least where it will cause a big problem. Check out servo guy s thread.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Thanks sjm9911. Servoguy has been a real good source for my info as well as Big Ed, T-man, and Gunrunnerjohn. I will check out the stickies you mentioned. Don't know if I'm talented enough yet to de-rivet and then drill and place in screw and nut. I will definitely be considering that though. Got to break out the Dremel set and give it a workout for sure.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

1122's are a real pain to work with because they are riveted together. However all the moving parts are accessed up top so you don't really have to open them unless you discover an electrical problem with the non derailing features.

Start by cleaning up all the parts you can get to and if it switches smooth and the non derail works then cal it a day.

A common problem with both O22 and 1122s are the underneath rall connections opening up. With the 022s the non derail stops working. You can open them up with a small screwdriver or wrench. The 1122s I have had problems with the connection to the center rail failing resulting in a dead center rail portion. There is no easy way to open those up. You have to drill out the rivet heads and the ground terminal. I would reassemble with small screws or new pop rivets. To replace the ground terminal you will need to order replacements. You could use a screw and nut but to me it looks bad.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Thanks BigAl for your experience and knowledge. I will definitely keep your information in mind when I crack these babies open this weekend. By the way, where would one get the replacement part for the ground you referred to?


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

It's called 'binding post', part no 455-76. I would think most parts dealers have them.
The group here is very fond of 'The Train Tender'.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Here are the pages for the 1122 switches. The newer replacement ground binding post is #5167-76. Note the replacement binding posts have metric threads, and will need a metric binding post nut #5132-76. Order them through Lionel directly. The #455-76 binding posts sold now are metric thread, and finding an original is almost impossible. Looking for some myself.

Larry


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can use the old 1122 binding post over again if you are good with your hands. I tell you how to do it in the post.

Use Google to look up 022/711 switch operating pblms and you will find a long post on restoring 022 switches. If you do everything in the post, the switches will be bulletproof. 

I have about 125 022 switches, and this post is the experience I had bringing the switches up to bulletproof condition.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Parts The traintender, http://www.ttender.com/partslist.html
If you buy from Jeff I recommend making sure you don't need other things as you save on the shipping. If you have a question on the part give Jeff a call. Something that he may not list may work with something else. 
Servoguys post he is talking about, http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/164691/1813936.aspx#1813936
I don't know why he won't link it to make it easy? :dunno:

The T man put it in his new sticky thread here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=24522

It is under the O/22 switch section in the sticky thread.

You do know that the O/27 track doesn't work that good with your O/22 switches?
You should really use O track with those switches.
You know the difference?


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Thanks a lot TrainLarry for the link to the service manual blowup pages. They will be my go to reference without a doubt. Do you have links to the 022 turnout service manuals as well? If you did I would surely appreciate having them. It would make my "rehab time" a whole lot easier with visual aids. Thanks again to you nice people. Also thanks to icolectto for the warm welcome.:appl:


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Yes Big Ed, I know the difference, but being retired and financially challenged that I am (fixed income vs. unfixed bills) I have to do with what I have presently which is a huge stack of 027 track, 022 turnouts (9 of em) and 2 pair of 1122 turnouts. Thanks for the heads up and the visual aid identifying the track and the differences. You guys go the extra mile.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Unless the rust is literally flaking off, use a Scotchbrite pad and some elbow grease to get the rust off. Do not use any kind of sandpaper, as that will take off the tin plating on the rails. After that, if necessary, use a Dremel tool with a wire wheel (use eye protection) to get the last of the rust off. Clean off with a rag dampened with naphtha, and you will not need any chemicals. I have done many this way, and they all look and work like new. 

Larry


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Trainable said:


> Yes Big Ed, I know the difference, but being retired and financially challenged that I am (fixed income vs. unfixed bills) I have to do with what I have presently which is a huge stack of 027 track, 022 turnouts (9 of em) and 2 pair of 1122 turnouts. Thanks for the heads up and the visual aid identifying the track and the differences. You guys go the extra mile.


You can use them but you have to shim up underneath the track. I am using some O/72 switches hooked to O/27 54's curves. 
You can make up some "custom" pins using nails if you want. Get the size that fits into the O switch and file/dremal/ or grind down the other side to mate the smaller O/27 track.

T-Man has sizes here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=15526&postcount=1 But notice the updated quote.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Sounds like shims are the way to go for now. I got so excited that I fired up SCARM and designed a layout with the software. It feels good to have the brain engaged. I may have to try the custom pins unless I decide to donate a few of the rougher sections of track to the scrap/recycle parts pile. Is galvanized acceptabe? I wouldn't think so because of the hot dip zinc, but what do I know?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The o guage pins will work also in o 27, just make the 027 openings bigger. Also luaun plywood is the perfect height to shim up the 027 to o . I forget the exact height. I can measure after my vacation, next week. Yea servoguy you are in the sticky, no more looking for the thread.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

The 022 switch parts callouts are here, here, and here.

Larry


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

If you use my for dealing with rust on the track, you will find it very easy. I make a layout with the track and run the train. If the track is rusty enough that the E unit drops out, I put the loco in forward only and run it until the track is clean enough that the E unit doesn't drop out. This is much more fun than using a ScotchBrite pad. If there is heavy rust in some places on the track, I use the end of a tie of a piece of O-31 track as a scraper to scrape the rust off. Quick and easy. The train will wear a very shiny stripe on the very top of the rail. 

BTW, I recommend you open up your 1122 switches and solder the crimped joints. The crimped joints get loose after several years as the plastic cold flows. Solder is a permanent fix.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Wow, all the information is staggering. I am wearing out my printer on the downloaded links. Thanks so much for all the kind and quick responses. I am looking forward to a lot of rewarding MRRing knowing that there is so much experience and support out there. Many thanks to Servoguy, Big Al, Train Larry, sjm9911 for helping me get started on the right path armed with the right info. Today will separate the man from the boy, then the boy will have fun.
I will be reporting in on any successes. Have a wonderful Labor Day weekend.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Trainable said:


> I will be reporting in on any successes. Have a wonderful Labor Day weekend.


Report the failures too. 
We can all learn from them also.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Didn't think about that in that way. Thanks for that lesson. I am after all Trainable but I don't always hit the paper dead center. Failures will be reported too, although I hope I don't have too many to report. And by the way, I did closely inspect one of my 022's this morning and found one of the ground plates disconnected at the solder joint under the base. Soldered it and the rest of them. Everything checked out good continuity wise. Still working on cleaning up the rest of them. More later.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

*Photos as promised.*















Hopefully I can figure out how to post pix here. Anyway, here are some photos of the switches I have been working on. They are cleaned up and tested but still need a few tweaks, i.e. revealing the baseplate tabs and soldering them for good continuity.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

The next two photos are of the base of two of the switches. They test out good with nice snap to the movable rails, but as you can see, some tabs are playing hide and go seek.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Sorry, I dropped one of the photos. Here is the other one that has hidden its tabs.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Trainable said:


> Hopefully I can figure out how to post pix here.




They work.
If you want them to show as a picture instead of a link just go back and click edit, then advanced edit, then look up at the paperclip (next to the white smiley face) click on the paper clip and click insert all. They will then show as a picture.
(if you only have one picture you won't see the insert all, just click on the link you will see instead)

Every time you post the pictures just go back a second time and do that they will all then show as a picture. 
If you post a lot of pictures together it makes looking at them a whole lot easier.

You only have 24 or 48 hours to edit here.
Try it (if you want) it is easy.


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

I will give it a try Big Ed.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Deleted oversize photo

Larry


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

TrainLarry, did you post a reply? or just copy that huge photo, lol. Im sorry, I need to learn how to reduce size as well, so you don't feel like you are on the front row of the theater.
Also, BigEd, what size is the best for posting? I have a program that I can compress the jpg photos with. But I need to know what size works best. THe learning curve is not too steep, but there is a stop sign at the bottom and my brakes don't work real well.
Ok, I learned how to do it with combined teamwork. Thanks!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Trainable said:


> TrainLarry, did you post a reply? or just copy that huge photo, lol. Im sorry, I need to learn how to reduce size as well, so you don't feel like you are on the front row of the theater.


One way is Photo bucket, but I don't like using them.
All to often the picture will get moved then it is not in the post anymore.

Mine come out too big too, they never used to I think my problem is in my camera settings.

Just hit the control and minus sign at the same time it will reduce the post so you can see the whole thing.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

During the original posting, after you have uploaded the file, click the paper clip and click the attachment, it will be attached in the body of the post. No need to go back and edit the post. The file size has to be edited before uploading, or it will be too large and spread out the reply so that you have to scroll to see the entire post. Here is one of the images resized and inserted. 

View attachment 37846








Larry


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

TrainLarry said:


> During the original posting, after you have uploaded the file, click the paper clip and click the attachment, it will be attached in the body of the post. No need to go back and edit the post. The file size has to be edited before uploading, or it will be too large and spread out the reply so that you have to scroll to see the entire post.Here is one of the images resized and inserted.Larry


But if you already posted you have to go and edit.
Larry how did you re-size it?
What is an easy way?
I have been asking this question for a while and have no reply's yet.:dunno:

Give us an easy way to re-size, please.
A way that doesn't use Photobucket.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

I use Irfanview to view and edit photos to be more manageable in uploads. Click on 'image', then 'resize'. A good size is 800x600 dpi. Save the photo to a different name and it's done.

Larry


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

If you haven't already done so, go back to the original postings with the photos. I have edited and resized the photos. I am so proud of myself that I almost sprained my arm patting myself on the back.  Now if I can only remember to put them all in one posting with the proper sized photos. Oh well. It's a process.

Thanks Larry, your tips were very helpful. I am learning more and more every day thanks to a great group of forum members who are patient and kind and experienced.
I hope to see some of you at the York, Pa. model train show so I can thank you in person.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Excellent job, Trainable. Don't sprain your arm; you need it to play with your trains!

Larry


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## Trainable (Aug 27, 2014)

Ha ha, good one. My wife says that she will pat me from now on in order to save me from spraining a train managing arm.

I also have ann 1122 switch controller coming in the mail. Still looking for those 022 switch motors. It seems everyone on ebay thinks they are worth their weight in gold. Maybe I can find a few at the York, Pa. model train show on the 19-20 Sep. Chances look pretty good. I probably should take some stuff to swap and or sell.


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