# Old Lionel scout



## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey guys I picked up a old Lionel scout train set looked to be in good shape the guy said he did not know if it ran or not so I got it home and took the locomotive and tender out of the box put it on the track and it did not run just through sparks so I took it apart and don't know what to do now it looks really dirty in side let me know if you guys have any idea on what is the problem by the way I got the locomotive and the cars and track for $15.00


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

First thing you want to check is the E-unit.

The lever should be positioned so that it contacts the rivet. In this position when power is applied the E-unit should operate. With the motor removed from the engine you should be able to see and feel it operate. Does it operate with power applied?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

welcome! its always a good idea to give the unit a good clean down. remove all the old grease,clean the armature and brushes,check the e unit for operation. replace the grease with some motor oil.


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## jesteck (Apr 15, 2014)

Heck of a deal for 15 bucks. You could probably more than triple that on e-bay as is, but that would take all the fun out of it and give somebody else a nice piece cheap. You say all it did when you put it in the track was throw sparks; from where? Wheels? Motor? Pickups? Track? The first, and most obvious, step is to disassemble and give it a thorough cleaning and lubrication. Check wiring for visible areas of unusual wear and possible shorts. Make sure all moving parts move freely and aren't binding. Good luck.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

My turn.

Welcome

Is that a wire hanging from the front of the motor?

I would start with the most obvious. Do the wheels turn by hand? I bought a loco at a train show that had a screw lodged in the gears.

It looks like the driver is bent on one side and missing on the other. Could the drive rods be bound up?

Eventually, you should give it a good cleaning and lube.

Have fun.

Let us know what you find.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

the wire might be for the headlamp no?


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Unsolder all wires from the brushplate, remove the e-unit and set it aside for service later. Unscrew the brushplate and remove the brushes and armature. Clean the entire motor assembly with naphtha, including the wheels, pickup shoes, and commutator face of the armature. Replace brushes if too worn. Check all wiring and replace any that is worn and frayed. Reassemble armature, brushes and brushplate. Connect one wire from your transformer to one brush connection. Connect the motor field winding wire to the other brush connection. Connect the other transformer wire to the chassis. Turn on the power. The motor should run. Reverse the wiring to the brushes and power up again. The motor should run in the reverse direction. The motor MUST pass this test before you proceed any further with your repair.

Now you can proceed with the cleaning and overhaul of the e-unit. See here for a thread on e-unit service, including some videos. When the e-unit is serviced and functioning properly, then you can reassemble it to the locomotive and wire it in. Here is the schematic for wiring in the e-unit. Suggest strongly to take pictures of the loco before and during disassembly if you are not familiar how to reassemble. Once reassembled, oil the axles and gears, and try out on the track. The loose wire in your photo goes to a light socket, part 59-6 and the associated wire with insulating washer and eyelet, if you do not have it.

Larry


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I would not disassemble the E unit unless it is malfunctioning. It is a somewhat difficult job and in 64 years of running trains, I have only had to repair 2 E units. If the E unit is operating, leave it alone. 

If the wheels turn freely, and the E unit operates, the loco should run, even if the brushes and commutator are dirty. You can lube the loco with motor oil, and the wheels should turn freely.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

As noted above, clean and lube, first. Then, if the motor's not running, the e-unit is a likely suspect.

See if the plunger inside the e-unit goes up when power is applied, and drops (with gravity) when power is turned off, as it should. From there, take a peek to see if the little brass fingers inside the e-unit look like they're making contact with the copper drum (rotating cylinder) inside the e-unit. Check for broken wires, too, of course.

Remember, if the e-unit is engaged (lever making touching its contact point), the motor should cycle fwd-neutral-reverse-neutral with each power-up. Do you get forward but not reverse, or vice-versa?

TJ


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok guys so I was able to get it to run had it running good but it will only run in revers so what do I need to do now thanks for all the help


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Did you try what TJ said?


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Yes and I got it to run in reveres but not forward so dose that mean the e unit is bad


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

lears2005 said:


> Yes and I got it to run in reveres but not forward so dose that mean the e unit is bad


Not necessarily.

Make sure the lever that you move makes contact against the rivet where it picks up power.
Did you check the plunger? That it is not sticking?

When you run the engine stop and try to reverse it with the transformer while tapping gently on the top. If it goes forward the plunger is sticking.
Shoot some cleaner in there, you didn't oil the plunger did you?

It could be the fingers also.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

E units here, ( make sure the lever is making contact with the rivet picture here)
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=283976&postcount=6

That is in here,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=24499


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Per Ed, above ...

If the motor runs in reverse, but not forward, that's not too bad. It means the wiring through the armature and field winding is all good. You likely have an e-unit tiny 'finger' that's not making contact with the e-unit copper drum, thereby not allowing the "forward direction" circuit to be completed.

Run some power jumper leads to the motor ... one to the center rail pickup, and another to the metal motor frame (ground to wheels, outer rail). Using a toothpick, very gently poke each of the finger to push them (one by one) against the drum, as you cycle power on/off to cycle through the e-unit positions. Chances are, you'll see the motor start to run in forward when you find the culprit finger. That done, a gentle bend to the finger may get it back in good contact to the drum, and solve your problems.

TJ


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok guy when I keep the leaver in the position in the pic it runs in revers only when I make it touch the rivet the plunger on the e unit goes up and the loco will not run and when the power is turned off the plunger dose not come back down so what is the next step I need to do


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)




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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

big ed said:


> Not necessarily.............................................
> 
> Make sure the lever that you move makes contact against the rivet where it picks up power.
> Did you check the plunger? That it is not sticking?
> ...


...................................................................



lears2005 said:


> Ok guy when I keep the leaver in the position in the pic it runs in revers only when I make it touch the rivet the plunger on the e unit goes up and the loco will not run and when the power is turned off the plunger dose not come back down so what is the next step I need to do


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> see if the plunger inside the e-unit goes up when power is applied, and drops (with gravity) when power is turned off, as it should.
> 
> tj


clean the plunger. It is sticking....don't oil it, just clean it with contact cleaner.



lears2005 said:


> ok guy when i keep the leaver in the position in the pic it runs in revers only when i make it touch the rivet the plunger on the e unit goes up and the loco will not run and when the power is turned off the plunger dose not come back down so what is the next step i need to do


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok I will go get some contact cleaner tommrow and try that thanks for the help will keep you updated


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is why I said, try to tap the top after it stops on the tracks.
The plunger might not be dropping back down and a gentle tap will make it drop.
Then you know it is that, most of the time it just needs cleaning.

Just don't oil it as the oil might eventually make it stick. Dust and whatever might accumulate/stick in the oil over time to gunk it up.

The plunger should be nice and clean.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Also on the lever, make sure that the red arrow piece is making contact at the yellow arrow piece. 
Leave the lever down on the yellow pictured piece when running. The top of the lever would be straight up when the shell is on.
Where it is shown now would be for you wanting it to run only in one direction. You can set it to run only backwards or forward.

Make sure they are clean and making contact.
Heck spray the whole thing and blow it off with air. Get all the accumulated grunge off of it.

If that doesn't work it is back to the drawing board.


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok thanks guys


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok guys I got the contact cleaner and that worked it runs now forward and backwards runs real fast backwards and kinda slow forward but seems to be getting better the more I run it thanks for all the help


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

lears2005 said:


> Ok guys I got the contact cleaner and that worked it runs now forward and backwards runs real fast backwards and kinda slow forward but seems to be getting better the more I run it thanks for all the help



Have you looked at the brushes yet? They might be worn. 
While you're in there clean up the commutator too, make it nice and shiney.


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok I will check that out while I am waiting to get some light bulbs for it the one that was there is burned out


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Did you lube the loco with ordinary motor oil? Motor oil works very well. I have used it for 50+ years. Don't use WD-40, 3 in 1 oil, light machine oil, Lionel Lube, lithium grease, etc. Motor oil doesn't evaporate and leave a gummy residue, nor does it harden. Oil all the bearings and gears. It it turns or slides, oil it.


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Ok guys back on this project I cleaned the motor up and everything in there when I put it on the track all it will do is humm what is the next step. Thanks for the help


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

I took my 2-4-2 (first engine) discarded the plastic shell, thoroughly cleaned everything, took apart the motor, redid all the solder joints replaced the smoke unit, replaced the headlight with an LED ,replaced the pilot with a 4 wheel one, cut off the vertical lever on the e-unit and left it in F-N-R and out on a newish metal shell. 

Now I have a modern looking 4-4-2 with a real Pullmore that will run all day and pull lots of cars. 

Smokin!! Very cool.

I love it when a plan comes together.
Frank


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