# Telegraph Poles



## ShockControl

I am curious about the height of telegraph poles and the number and length of cross arms relative to different geographic regions and/or eras.


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## NIMT

Typically in this area (north west) when you can find them they are only around 8 foot tall and the cross arms depends on how many pairs of wire they needed. 6 foot is about average though.


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## tjcruiser

Telegraph or telephone???

No telegraph poles 'round my parts! (Rhode Island, northeast.) Lots of telephone poles, though. I'd estimate most are around 25' tall, maybe 14" or so diameter at the base. Number of cross arms depends on number of cables. Some poles have transformers, some have support stay wires, etc.

TJ


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## raleets

Frankly, if someone walked up to my layout and told me my telephone poles weren't "correct" for the midwest (Michigan) I would be quickly tempted tell them they weren't "correct" for enjoying model railroading. 
Bob


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## Xnats

I thought this was a good thread. Half way down they go over poles. http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tel/morse/morse.htm just in case you were talking about the telegraph system


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## ShockControl

raleets said:


> Frankly, if someone walked up to my layout and told me my telephone poles weren't "correct" for the midwest (Michigan) I would be quickly tempted tell them they weren't "correct" for enjoying model railroading.
> Bob


I know, we all have our relative levels of geekdom. 

I ask because I have seen such a variety of telephone/telegraph poles over the years that purport to be HO scale. The ones from my youth were shorter and had two pairs of arms. Others in more recent years are taller and have three pairs of arms. I've encountered plenty of others too. Just curious.


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## waltr

Around here (Philadelphia area) the 'power pole' heights vary by what they carry, and even then there is some variation in height from pole to pole partly due to the terrain.

I've never measured the height of any so can't tell you what height they are.


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## Xnats

I'm only posting this because, I too find it strange that the poles sold have like a trillion cross arms on them. The train simulator games are the same way  This stuff is controlled by the Feds so there is/ should be some uniformity here.
This is the basic run down of a modern utility pole. This should cover the most parts of the lower 48, except the boondocks like were NIMT lives :laugh:

Telephone Companies usually only install 45 foot poles. A 45 footer is buried 6 feet into the ground, this depth might be swallower in solid rock. These poles are mainly used to hold Telephone, Cable and Secondary Power Services. There are not usually any cross brasses. 

Power Companies usually install 45, 50 or 55 foot poles. These usually hold Telephone, TV, Secondary Power and Distribution Power. The Distribution power would be the ones on the cross brasses. Anything taller then this needs to be handled by the Power Company's transmission crew. Then you will see 60, 70 and 75 footers. Anything taller then this usually goes on metal poles. I believe the formula for installing poles in 6' minimum for anything shorter then 50 feet. Every 10 feet higher/ taller it goes 1 foot deeper. So a 60 footer would be 7 feet deep into the ground. 

The pic below starting from the bottom up.
First four lines are Telephone. The minimum mounting height is 21 above ground.

The fifth one up with the drip loop at the pole is Cable TV. This has to be installed one foot higher then telephone. To the left is a ring/ loop, that is a fiber line. Slack is stored that way so it can be lowered into a vehicle for splicing. 

The next group by the flood light are the Secondary Power lines. These are 120/240 volts but can be 277/488 volts. There could be slight other variations so lets just say low voltage, which is less then 600 volts. These are the lines feeding your house and/ or business. These have to be 3 feet higher then cable. I believe 27 feet is the minimum mounting height. When is comes to spacing these are guide lines and sometimes stuff is just squeezed in 

Next up on the cross brasses are the distribution lines. I know for a fact these are 7200 volts on this pole. I'm not sure what the max can be though. That is past my qualifications. 

The very top are Transmission lines on the insulators. That is all I know about them.


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## ShockControl

Thanks. So if I'm trying to create, say, 1940s-60s era, am I good with either the three arm or the two arm poles?


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## raleets

ShockControl,
You are good with whatever YOU think looks cool on your layout! It's YOURS and you can make it any bloomin' way you wish! 
FWIW, I have two arm poles on my layout with a 40's/50's/60's theme.
Happy New Year,
Bob


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## Xnats

I'm not 100% positive on how things were done in the old days. Secondary lines back then were mounted on cross brasses. Then was done because there was no insulation on them. So a two arm pole would be good for running down the tracks and neighborhoods. This is giving you secondary and primary/ distribution power. The 3 arm pole would look more prototypical in a city. Which would be most likely 2 secondary and you primary. Telephone wires, I don't believe were ever on crossarms. Telegraph wires on the other hand were. TV was done all by antenna  I'm only 40 though, we might have to ask one of the old timers like Big Ed about the telegraph system :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: and/ or what blue water looks like


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## tkruger

This is why the towns in my layout use buried cables.


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## NIMT

I did give you heights for telegraph poles not utility poles. Telegraph poles typically follow rail lines, Utility poles follow roadways!


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## ShockControl

Xnats said:


> ...So a two arm pole would be good for running down the tracks and neighborhoods...The 3 arm pole would look more prototypical in a city...


Thanks, this is the kind of thing i was looking for. Happy New Year all!


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## raleets

NIMT said:


> I did give you heights for telegraph poles not utility poles. Telegraph poles typically follow rail lines, Utility poles follow roadways!


Very few telegraph lines follow rail lines anymore. Since around 1970 most rail communications has been via radio and microwave. That's why you see lots of 75' to 100' foot towers along rail lines with a small microwave dish.
Bob


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## raleets

tkruger said:


> This is why the towns in my layout use buried cables.


tkruger,
THAT'S funny! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Bob


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