# O Gauge Members



## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

May have been asked before but how many members are involved in O gauge.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

This is an old poll on that very subject…..can’t vouch for the current numbers, but it may give you an idea….

For what it’s worth….unfortunately, every member would have to vote in the poll to get a reasonabley accurate number, and even then, many members are into more than just one scale/gauge, so…..

Poll On Scales


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Seems the majority is HO


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

TJSmith said:


> Seems the majority is HO


Do another poll?
We do have some who vacated from the "other" forum.
But I think HO would still win.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Big Ed said:


> But I think HO would still win.


Nope, because HO is always only Half O.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Which, of course, it’s not….just sayin’….. 😁


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

HO HO HO 😎 

A lot don't have the room for O, even if you have the room, it is still not large enough.
But in the end it looks like HO takes the category for assorted reasons.

How many do you know that model Standard gauge layouts?
Not too many?

I like HO, but I like O better.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

Simply put HO is more prevalent than O. When I was a kid "1950s" O gauge was the most prevalent gauge around. Lionel, Marx were the main players back then. Now a days just try to find a modern retail store that has O Gauge for sale on their shelves. You will find a fair amount of HO Gauge on them shelves, however. Maybe some N Gauge if you are lucky. Folks will usually buy what is readily available to them. HO Gauge has a Plethora of liveries, Engines & cars + accessories to choose from. HO I think is less costly than O Gauge.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I would answer with enough, lol. There are plenty of both scales, plus s here. Then there are the people that read and dont comment much, or leave and come back years later. Its an impossible question.


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## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

TJSmith said:


> May have been asked before but how many members are involved in O gauge.


My understanding is that 85% of the market is HO. The following scales are in popularity N, O, S, and G....

I am too old to be HO (eyes) and not rich enough for G...


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

My view is that the engagement and participation of the members is more important for the MTF than the total number of members. Engagement is indicated by the number of posts (or is it threads) and views. By that measure O gauge members are the the most engaged by a factor of two over HO. S gauge is a distant third followed closely by N scale.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Not as many as I'd like. But more than enough.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Strictly O Gauge for 70 years. First Lionel was a 2026 steam set when I was 4 years old, Christmas 1951.

Bill


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Reason for my question is I wondered how successful I would be in either selling or buying O gauge items. With so few I think perhaps there may be better ways especially with hard to find items Or expensive items.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Are you trying to buy and sell stuff, here or like an ebay storefront, or a brick and mortar? Or just buy to use? I'm not understanding.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

Guess I should have said: given the few O gauge members I would be wasting my time either looking for an item or selling an item.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I think the number of O scale posts directy relates to the many locomotive problems reported in this scale and the answers given to those posts. We all know what brand that is.

All scales of locomotives will have problems sooner or later, but O Scale seems to corner the market on posts because of this. Some related to age and antiquity, but many related to brand new product.

When I spend the kind of money I do on locomotives they had better run correctly as designed out-of-the-box or my business will be concluded with that company as of that purchase. 

There is no excuse for the trash they are selling these days in the O scale segment of the hobby except that the buyers keep putting up with it and asking for more. Ridiculous.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

TJSmith said:


> Guess I should have said: given the few O gauge members I would be wasting my time either looking for an item or selling an item.


If you are looking to buy or sell O gauge trains and you are not nearby any train meets, you would do better at OGR forum than here. I've bought a few items there and sold a few items.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lehigh74 said:


> If you are looking to buy or sell O gauge trains and you are not nearby any train meets, you would do better at OGR forum than here. I've bought a few items there and sold a few items.


Why not post here and there?
More views?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I typically post both places if I have an item to sell or buy. I will state that I've sold far more on OGR than on MTF. Here a couple of items, on OGR, a ton of stuff. Size does matter when it comes to buying and selling.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

MichaelE said:


> I think the number of O scale posts directy relates to the many locomotive problems reported in this scale and the answers given to those posts. We all know what brand that is.
> 
> All scales of locomotives will have problems sooner or later, but O Scale seems to corner the market on posts because of this. Some related to age and antiquity, but many related to brand new product.
> 
> ...


Regarding “market share,” HO scale overtook O scale in the mid-1960s and has been the prevalent scale in model railroading since then. N scale has moved to 2nd place and O scale 3rd. Don’t know where S and G rank.

MichaelE is right about O scale locomotive failures being ahead of other scales. What baffles me is why O scalers just keep on buying new product from the leading O scale manufacturers, then continue complaining when they fail. I guess so they can write about it on the forums.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Regarding “market share,” HO scale overtook O scale in the mid-1960s and has been the prevalent scale in model railroading since then. N scale has moved to 2nd place and O scale 3rd. Don’t know where S and G rank.
> 
> MichaelE is right about O scale locomotive failures being ahead of other scales. What baffles me is why O scalers just keep on buying new product from the leading O scale manufacturers, then continue complaining when they fail. I guess so they can write about it on the forums.


Well, I don't get into Steam. I think Steam locomotives are a very complex choice but understand why they are worth the gamble. Prices for good steam, which is now relegated mostly to Lionel, maybe 3rd Rail once every 3-4 years - are now in the $1,000's. 

So when those fail, it is tough. I still don't think the margins are high in O Scale. These are beautiful steam locomotives with a lot of gee whiz features unheard of 20 years ago. But the engineering required to put them even on a 1:48 scale, as opposed to HO, boggles the mind. To then have it communicate with a hand held phone or device even up's the anty. 

I don't run steam, and I have never had a complete layout. I have run some of my O Scale Diesels and except for some 40 year old Lionels, I have not had any issues with my new stuff. Some of my PS 2.0 MTH's had to sit on the tracks awhile waiting for the battery to come to life (I think) but other then that no issues. 

My wife did get me an MTH Hiawatha steam locomotive in PS 2.0, so I guess I do have steam, but other than one other MTH switcher I don't get caught up in the new steam. 

I get HO thinking, but I can't imagine running HO.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

When selling stuff, the more eyeballs the better . So if you are not using eBay or some other auction site, the more places you post the better. Clearly in O gauge three rail, the OGR Forum has by the largest number of eyeballs, so that's a good first place to start.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's if you don't get banned after your first post.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

MichaelE said:


> That's if you don't get banned after your first post.


I'm somewhat mystified by comments like this. While I've been admonished a few times, mostly justified, I've never been banned. I would imagine you have to step quite a ways over the line to get the boot.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's from reading comments here from former members.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I think if you start arguing about moderating decisions, that will raise the ire of the management, not too surprising. I think that's one of the things that gets some people. 

Posting political stuff will also get their attention.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, I think if you start arguing about moderating decisions, that will raise the ire of the management, not too surprising. I think that's one of the things that gets some people.
> 
> Posting political stuff will also get their attention.


But we don't post any Political stuff. 

This thread has served it's purpose?

He should have done it as a poll. 
Don't matter because HO would win anyway. 😎


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Arguing persistently with the owners and their deputies almost never leads to satisfaction in the real world, whether a forum, work or city hall. It's their ballpark, their ball and their rules, like it or get out of Dodge, I guess. The notion that free speech exists on a privately (not government) owned forum is without legal basis, contrary to many people's understanding. And if you argue in favor of ideas that are commonly considered vile or even just unpopular, your free speech may make you free to work elsewhere than your current employer. There are no requirements that employers allow their employees to do things that publicly embarrass them. It's only the government that isn't allowed to restrict your freedom of speech, not your employer. Not a constitutional lawyer, but I know a few .


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I joined the ranks of the banned from OGR. i did not post anything offensive, promote a non-supporting vendor, in fact I’ve been a good customer of many of those vendors spending at least $15,000 over time with them. They include most recently Mianne Benchwork $1100, Mario’s trains $1300 and Nicholas Smith $500.

When I e-mailed AA he had no explanation. I don’t plan to revisit the subject with him nor do I intend to attempt to join under another screen name and e-mail address. Eventually OGR Magazine will go by the wayside, perhaps not in my lifetime, since they do not have enough subscribers to sustain the paper magazine and digital subscribers will get tired as well.

While I do not have any definitive evidence to back up that claim all you need to do is look at all the magazines that have failed over the years with far more subscribers than OGR. Look, Saturday Evening Post, Harpers Bazaar, George and many many others.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Neil
I’ll bet you in the okay column with that group, so I understand your support of them. 

I think those of us who are not allowed there whether like me - who was told I was not allowed - or banned after being allowed are miffed because it seems like we did nothing wrong to deserve the non allowance or banning. Nothing political nothing saying anything derogatory, just an opinion the
moderator didn’t like. And your banned. 

I think the forum is remarkably viable, even robust. Even though I am banned from their forum I still visit - especially the for sale sections. And that column goes on and on while this forum’s Buy Sell is almost non existent.

I was told by the Administrator that I was not allowed because some of the vendors and members might get bad comments from me. He said he was protecting his vendors and members from me and inferred I was wanting on the forum for nefarious reasons.

I provided an explanation that I wanted to reach out to some of the sellers of items because I was interested in being a buyer. I explained I had Lionel, MTH and had purchased from many of the vendors at the top of their home page. I explained I was a member of the NRHS and gave generously to projects restoring or providing access to rail history. I explained in detail how I had purchased many of the OGR magazines over the years.

And was told no.

While I appreciate that all forums are owned by a group or person and even Facebook groups are “owned” or moderated by certain folks, I have never been declined for a forum or group. Most - you sign up, provide your information and start contributing.

That platform is likely 3 times the size of this forum. It will likely keep going strong because of the sponsors. You see all of the major players right there at the top when you go to his forum. Here? Nothing. That right there is a strong indication of what the major players think of the viability of his forum and its power to reach buyers.

I still browse there, I just can’t contribute and/or buy items I see for sale.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I just wonder if it had anything to do with the new Apple privacy enhancements. They allow you to block among other thinks you IP address but also the ability of vendors to find you or trace you.

Only thing I can think of.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

Yellowstone Special said:


> MichaelE is right about O scale locomotive failures being ahead of other scales. What baffles me is why O scalers just keep on buying new product from the leading O scale manufacturers, then continue complaining when they fail. I guess so they can write about it on the forums.


Besides MTH PS2 5v stuff and older Atlas/Weaver/3rd Rail locomotives with TAS EOB TMCC the electronics in O gauge stuff are pretty reliable. The reason (besides any manufacturing defects like a pinched wire) boards in O gauge die frequently is related to operators. Unlike in other scales everything thing is backwards compatible to 1900. So in HO you have straight DC and DCC, which you can't really run together on the same setup. In O you can run a TMCC/Legacy/DCS locomotive on the same track with a prewar steam locomotive from 1937 without issue. This means that you can also power a modern locomotive with sensitive electronics from a transformer built in 1937, which has garbage circuit protection. So what happens is you end up with quite a few people in O gauge powering modern, circuit board equipped locomotives with 70+ year old transformers with no modern external circuit protection. A short/derailment and 20+ volts goes right through the board for 30+ seconds before the 70 year transformer's slow thermal breaker pops, if it even still works. That accounts for a lot of the board issues in 3 rail O.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

lou1985 said:


> ... So what happens is you end up with quite a few people in O gauge powering modern, circuit board equipped locomotives with 70+ year old transformers with no modern external circuit protection. A short/derailment and 20+ volts goes right through the board for 30+ seconds before the 70 year transformer's slow thermal breaker pops, if it even still works. That accounts for a lot of the board issues in 3 rail O.


But as JetGuy pointed out some time ago, it's a fundamental design failure. The two roller pickups are not connected together by wire. Rather, each has a separate feed to the electronic PCB. So when one roller shorts to ground, all the transformer power channels through a PCB trace burning it up. If the rollers were connected together preceding the PCB, all the power would be absorbed by heavy wire until the breaker popped.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Big Ed said:


> Why not post here and there?
> More views?


I also post for sale items here as well as OGR, but as John (and I) said *O*GR is better for moving* O* gauge items.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

"Neil
I’ll bet you in the okay column with that group, so I understand your support of them."

I don't support their moderation or oppose it, I just accept it since it's their party and I participate for free. I figure I'm not going to like every choice they make and vice versa. I've had posts deleted in the past. I cannot figure out why you were not allowed to join. You don't seem like an unreasonable person or wild man . I'd try again from a different IP address if you're interested. They're not making money by excluding people, I'm pretty sure. Their advertising revenue depends on the number of eyeballs and clicks. Probably some sort of misunderstanding, which happens all the time on the web.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

neilblumberg said:


> "Neil
> I’ll bet you in the okay column with that group, so I understand your support of them."
> They're not making money by excluding people, I'm pretty sure.
> 
> ...


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

lou1985 said:


> Besides MTH PS2 5v stuff and older Atlas/Weaver/3rd Rail locomotives with TAS EOB TMCC the electronics in O gauge stuff are pretty reliable. The reason (besides any manufacturing defects like a pinched wire) boards in O gauge die frequently is related to operators. Unlike in other scales everything thing is backwards compatible to 1900. So in HO you have straight DC and DCC, which you can't really run together on the same setup. In O you can run a TMCC/Legacy/DCS locomotive on the same track with a prewar steam locomotive from 1937 without issue. This means that you can also power a modern locomotive with sensitive electronics from a transformer built in 1937, which has garbage circuit protection. So what happens is you end up with quite a few people in O gauge powering modern, circuit board equipped locomotives with 70+ year old transformers with no modern external circuit protection. A short/derailment and 20+ volts goes right through the board for 30+ seconds before the 70 year transformer's slow thermal breaker pops, if it even still works. That accounts for a lot of the board issues in 3 rail O.


You make a good point. But the majority of complaints about new locomotives I've read on all 3 of the main O scale forums have to deal with manufacturing errors and quality-control issues with new locomotives right out of the box, or shortly after they've been put on the track and throttled up not using older transformers. And this seems to have been an issue with the two main O scale manufacturers for years.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'm somewhat mystified by comments like this. While I've been admonished a few times, mostly justified, I've never been banned. I would imagine you have to step quite a ways over the line to get the boot.


I got the boot and was never given a reason why.

Bill


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

Old_Hobo said:


> This is an old poll on that very subject…..can’t vouch for the current numbers, but it may give you an idea….
> 
> For what it’s worth….unfortunately, every member would have to vote in the poll to get a reasonabley accurate number, and even then, many members are into more than just one scale/gauge, so…..
> 
> Poll On Scales


TT
I have O a couple of years now but never set it up


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

seayakbill said:


> I got the boot and was never given a reason why.
> 
> Bill


Did you ask why?
Maybe something you said here about them and they heard about it somehow?


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

The big problem with the MTF Buy/Sell forum is it's not scale specific. If you hit "Follow Forum", you'll get emails for all scales. It makes it almost useless. 

If I could sign up for only O Scale emails, then it becomes a valuable tool. 

I still list here because the price is right. However, not only have I never sold anything via MTF, I've never even received an email inquiry regarding one of my listings. Meanwhile, almost everything I listed here was sold relatively quickly elsewhere.


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

No matter the space I have it will always be O gauge. 

Dave


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

davidone said:


> No matter the space I have it will always be O gauge.


I've seen you selling quite a bit of HO, was that just a brief detour away from O-gauge?


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> I got the boot and was never given a reason why.
> 
> Bill


I also was never given a reason


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I’m going to shortly have both a Lionel CAB1L system and a Legacy 990 system for sale. Based on so few O Gauge members here would I be better posting them for sale here or ask a friend to post it for me on another site or both.


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

TJSmith said:


> I’m going to shortly have both a Lionel CAB1L system and a Legacy 990 system for sale. Based on so few O Gauge members here would I be better posting them for sale here or ask a friend to post it for me on another site or both.


try here because it is free to post and it can not hurt


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Yep, it's free. List here and if you don't get any takers, list them elsewhere.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I’ll consider it however a number of members here are also members of another forum that has a very large O Gauge following so they will see it anyway. Incidentally I have posted items for sale here and the post sits for weeks when it sold elsewhere within a few days.

One other issue I have is this forum does not allow me to delete a post like other forums do and that is important to me.

Lastly, I’d like to give someone an opportunity to purchase the items at an extremely attractive price with the intent of using them and not simply looking to re-sell the item. While there is no way to control that it would be nice just the same.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

TJSmith said:


> Lastly, I’d like to give someone an opportunity to purchase the items at an extremely attractive price with the intent of using them and not simply looking to re-sell the item. While there is no way to control that it would be nice just the same.


Good luck with that one….yeah, it would be nice, but you are dealing with humans, so….


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

TJSmith, I have a suggestion. In the last few months, there have been some threads from newbies asking about the availability of a Legacy system. You could do a search for one of those and contact the OP through their email. I think that might accomplish your aim. I would purchase it but full disclosure, I have one. I'm looking for an insurance back-up.


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## Lnfog351 (3 mo ago)

I am an O gauge person, My pride and joy is my MTH Big Boy.


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## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

TJSmith said:


> May have been asked before but how many members are involved in O gauge.


From sales of new trains the popularity of scales is:

#1, HO
#2. N
#3. O
#4. S
#5. G

HO, by itself has about 85% of the market...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I found figures on recent eBay model train purchases, so I think one could use these as being fairly close for percentages….

“HO”,”N” and “O” make up the vast majority….seems “Z” is slightly ahead of “S”….


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

We know the reasons are limited space and cost of items. But still, how can it be that much percentage difference. I am only in the hobby 8 years. I had to decide 8 years ago - HO or O. 

I went to the LHS and put my reading glasses on to see those teeny tiny HO locomotives.

The store had an O layout. Of course I went wow. So I think of N and HO and think those folks compromised on their hobby. Do they not have the money? Do they not have the space?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Because o costs more , lol. I can buy more ho or z stuff. That may be the difference.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I would think money and space plays a BIG role….


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

HO is sold worldwide... Well sort of... Theres many domestic markets for it then. That's perhaps one main reason it's overall the most popular. It's a kind of compromise size. It's just about big enough to be pleasing to the eye and just about small enough to fit in the space folks have and costs are .. I mean you can buy a lot of rolling stock at say $25 and many good enough quality with sound engines at say $250. So costs are just about affordable...


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

sjm9911 said:


> Because o costs more , lol. I can buy more ho or z stuff. That may be the difference.


Yes but can you see the details. When train talk, steam and other sounds come on, do you turn your hearing aid up? It's just not worth it - to me - to say "well, I can't afford O and I don't have the space, so I will compromise and take this scale that I don't care for as much." 

My 1st home with a layout it was 16 x 7. Not big by any means and on one end it was 5 1/2 feet because that's where the stairs came down. 

I had to sell a brand new MTH DD40X Union Pacific because I did not understand curves and it needed O72. But I ran trains on it for about 18 months. You could hear the horns, whistles and crew talk upstairs from the basement. 

There is a huge HO club in Des Moines that has a huge Morton building at the fairgrounds. And they run these teeny tiny trains on - I don't know - 220 feet by 100 feet, maybe bigger. And the trains run slow. Imagine an O Scale Big Boy launching on a 220 + foot run with steam and scale 100 mph! 

At some point, especially if you are Diorama focused, you sure can do more with HO and perhaps the running of the trains is secondary. I get that part, you can do more scenery than O. But for getting the interest from the crowd, and interest in seeing the detail most O Scale offers, HO can't compare.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Severn said:


> HO is sold worldwide... Well sort of... Theres many domestic markets for it then. That's perhaps one main reason it's overall the most popular. It's a kind of compromise size. It's just about big enough to be pleasing to the eye and just about small enough to fit in the space folks have and costs are .. I mean you can buy a lot of rolling stock at say $25 and many good enough quality with sound engines at say $250. So costs are just about affordable...


Agree with the international perspective. Houses in Europe and elsewhere, typically are smaller with space designated not for an electric model train hobby but for utility. 

I almost think HO and N are better in a smaller room where a person can get up close. But I see quite a few You Tube videos and even train show modulars with HO on a huge layout. THAT I don't understand. 

As for cost, a person can purchase about the same amount of rolling stock in O at $25 or less per, as HO. It might take a bit longer. Most of my O27, O31, and such are gone. I have moved up to more detail and prototypical size but I still have a fair amount of Rail King and such. 

I have about 15 locomotives that I spent $250 or less. Just got a MTH Premier Burlington Route SD-9 for less than $200 from Cabin Fever Auctions. I run conventional, so this is PS 1.0. Williams locomotives can regularly be purchased for $200 or less. I dollar cost average. If I get a $500 or more locomotive, then I look for buying a couple $300 or less. Many times much less. 

TRAINZ purchased a Rock Island collection and had some of those heavy Rock Island ore cars going sold for $10-$15 each. Yes, I have been purchasing some premium stuff but it has been over the last 7 + years. No way could I get it all in 12 months. Pretty sure it's the same for HO. 

I just don't like the idea of "compromise" when diving into a hobby.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Im not really advocating one or the other. unfortunately i like all the scales. i have boxes of o-gauge stuff, i had it out for a long time. now i've got an ho thing going. then I think: "Maybe ...."


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, as with everything in the hobby, O scale obviously works for you, and that’s great, but its not for everybody….and other people might not (don’t) think smaller scales are a compromise, (according to overall sales), so why question other peoples tastes?


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I don't recall doing that.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Well, as with everything in the hobby, O scale obviously works for you, and that’s great, but its not for everybody….and other people might not (don’t) think smaller scales are a compromise, (according to overall sales), so why question other peoples tastes?


Because it's not a discussion about tastes.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Ok then….why question other people’s choice in model train scales then….is that better?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Severn said:


> I don't recall doing that.


Not you that I’m addressing….I thought that was pretty clear….


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I just wanted to check that you didn't misinterpret my comments. generally to me -- the market provides solutions where's there demand. so ... that's how it shakes out.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Bryan Moran said:


> Yes but can you see the details. When train talk, steam and other sounds come on, do you turn your hearing aid up? It's just not worth it - to me - to say "well, I can't afford O and I don't have the space, so I will compromise and take this scale that I don't care for as much."
> 
> My 1st home with a layout it was 16 x 7. Not big by any means and on one end it was 5 1/2 feet because that's where the stairs came down.
> 
> ...


You asked why, I told you. It was a percentage baised on sales. If I am in ho scale, I can buy 3 things for the price of an O scale item. This will translate to more percentage points in diffrent things. Its really not a good guage of what scale is more popular, just what is selling more. O and HO are the most popular, each has there draws. But if I were to make an ho scale layout thats the size of my O scale layout I would need many more things. So more track, cars , etc. I will also say I am younger and dont need a hearing aid. Lol. I have no idea why you took offense, the ho stuff is cheaper so its more cost efective to buy. As you stated, you bought your stuff over many years. So, you dont buy stuff all the time. And you look and wait for deals, HO stuff for the most part is more affordable, and people can and do buy more of it at a time.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

sjm9911 said:


> You asked why, I told you. It was a percentage baised on sales. If I am in ho scale, I can buy 3 things for the price of an O scale item. This will translate to more percentage points in diffrent things. Its really not a good guage of what scale is more popular, just what is selling more. O and HO are the most popular, each has there draws. But if I were to make an ho scale layout thats the size of my O scale layout I would need many more things. So more track, cars , etc. I will also say I am younger and dont need a hearing aid. Lol. I have no idea why you took offense, the ho stuff is cheaper so its more cost efective to buy. As you stated, you bought your stuff over many years. So, you dont buy stuff all the time. And you look and wait for deals, HO stuff for the most part is more affordable, and people can and do buy more of it at a time.


Good point. Maybe HO is not cheaper then O.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

It's dramatically cheaper and at least on the good stuff the details are far better. It's also fragile, and you need a magnifier to see certain details. The market is larger so there's more vendors, and so more choices.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And I find HO is more prototypically correct to the real trains….grab irons, corner stirrups, scale couplers, etc….and the higher end companies are now making prototypically correct locomotives and cars for the various railways, instead of slapping different paint schemes on one version….O is too toy-like for me, but I guess there are those who don’t care….


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Oh, and N scale is more popular than O, judging by sales, which is in my mind the only real yardstick….


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Oh, and N scale is more popular than O, judging by sales, which is in my mind the only real yardstick….


Good for you.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Old_Hobo said:


> Oh, and N scale is more popular than O, judging by sales, which is in my mind the only real yardstick….


Thats like saying pennies are more popular then quarters since everyone has more of them at home at home.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Severn said:


> It's dramatically cheaper and at least on the good stuff the details are far better. It's also fragile, and you need a magnifier to see certain details. The market is larger so there's more vendors, and so more choices.


Not dramatically cheaper. I did an eBay search for O Scale rolling stock with a price limit of $35. It went on for 20 pages. I could get at least 100 items of varied rolling stock for $37 delivered. So that’s $10 more than a local hobby store $25 to $30 item for HO scale. 

Not new, but most of these are minimally run or not run at all.

HO and teeny tiny N are chosen for low cost and lack of space, which is fine.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> Thats like saying pennies are more popular then quarters since everyone has more of them at home at home.


Not applicable, we are talking about SALES of things, not how many different denominations of coins you have….you don’t buy money….

Ok, how about music/records….best selling albums are OBVIOUSLY more popular than records that don’t sell as much…..same with trains, or anything for that matter….best sellers are best sellers for a reason, they are more popular….

Hope you understand better now….


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Old_Hobo said:


> Not applicable, we are talking about SALES of things, not how many different denominations of coins you have….you don’t buy money….
> 
> Ok, how about music/records….best selling albums are OBVIOUSLY more popular than records that don’t sell as much…..same with trains, or anything for that matter….best sellers are best sellers for a reason, they are more popular….
> 
> Hope you understand better now….


Not really old, your talking of things that are priced the same. People would love to have a Mercedes, but before they buy one they allready owned 2 chevys and a ford. So, its a price point thing. Especially now with pandemic supply chain issues and inflation. People may opt for something they dont want because it gets the job done. They can't afford the better product. So, I may give you its more popular, but it may not be what the person really wants. But on the other hand, i may just buy less as I can't afford it. So, take for example what I said before, Bryan buys one big ticket item every year, another ho guy buys 3. All equal the same price. But the ho stuff is selling more. But the popularity is the same, 1 guy O , I guy HO. Sales isnt indicative of popularity.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)




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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Old_Hobo said:


> Not applicable, we are talking about SALES of things, not how many different denominations of coins you have….you don’t buy money….
> 
> Ok, how about music/records….best selling albums are OBVIOUSLY more popular than records that don’t sell as much…..same with trains, or anything for that matter….best sellers are best sellers for a reason, they are more popular….
> 
> Hope you understand better now….


You most certainly can buy money.
How about gold or silver coins? Or old notes or collectable coins?
You have to buy them.
Bitcoin is also form of currency.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And there it is….the comment from the peanut gallery…. 🤣


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> Not really old, your talking of things that are priced the same. People would love to have a Mercedes, but before they buy one they allready owned 2 chevys and a ford. So, its a price point thing. Especially now with pandemic supply chain issues and inflation. People may opt for something they dont want because it gets the job done. They can't afford the better product. So, I may give you its more popular, but it may not be what the person really wants. But on the other hand, i may just buy less as I can't afford it. So, take for example what I said before, Bryan buys one big ticket item every year, another ho guy buys 3. All equal the same price. But the ho stuff is selling more. But the popularity is the same, 1 guy O , I guy HO. Sales isnt indicative of popularity.


Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then….this dead horse ain’t getting up no matter how much I beat it….


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Old_Hobo said:


> And there it is….the comment from the peanut gallery…. 🤣


And another worthless post by the nut gallery. 😅😂🤣


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Now THERE’S the pot calling the kettle black…. yet again….


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I'm not sure why this (popularity) is important. You prefer o or g or whatever, so that's what you like. But while I can't find an easy source of info on the details, breakdown of the model train market. It seems clear to me at least ho easily eclipses the other scales. It's got numerous sellers of engines, rolling stock and related world wide. And a variety of factories too of where it's all made. One could look at the total market value, units sold or participants as indicators of popularity. And I think ho comes out on top of all these. As I said way up there it's not because it's better in some kind of material way, it's because it's kind of a compromise scale between size and space, cost etc.. But if you like something else well then you do.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, I think this thread has run it's course and then some! Time to move on.

** Closed **


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