# 472 diesel



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Bought the 472 at show so finally put on track tried to bull 4 cars struggled alot took 3 off ran fine. Any ideas why.
Al


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Sure, like all KC diesels the axles have worn out the truck bearings. The trucks need to be rebushed. Since the 472 is a single motor engine, pulling three passenger cars is not too bad. The 5640TH set only included three passenger cars with the 472 because it was a single motor engine with not much pulling power.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Ok thanks


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

I just ck it the front axle really bad other one is good have u or anyone have done it. Thanks 
Al


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I have never rebushed a chassis because it requires a holding fixture and a drill press. There are repair sites that offer the rebushing service but with round trip shipping and their fees it will probably be equal to the cost of the engine.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Reason I asked wasn't show if it was different from steamers I did my 322 hudson over have extra bushings so I will take it to work and put it on the Bridgeport. Thanks


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

alaft61ri said:


> Reason I asked wasn't show if it was different from steamers I did my 322 hudson over have extra bushings so I will take it to work and put it on the Bridgeport. Thanks


Not sure if the bushings are the same.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

I ck seems to be the same ck axle diameter same as bushing 2 different sizes on axle. Here is a pick of the holes little warn.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The only axle bushings I am aware of are for diesels. New bushings are not normally needed for steam engine drive wheels because they are not used for electrical pick up. Al, I wonder what bushings you have, they may be the ones for diesels that also fit your steam engine.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Yes they are here is the new bushings only thing is have to new insulated bushing while pulling wheel off the plastic flange part broke debating if I should buy the whole wheel or plastic bushing.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Update thrust plates came in today wheels spins good on bench but one problem soon as I put it on track turn transformer on nothing no light nothing no clicking on reverse unit. Any info. ps before I replaced bushings it ran on track


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Are the pickup wheels on the correct side of the truck chassis? They should be on the opposite side as the pickup wheels on the rear unpowered truck. Check for continuity between the pickup wheel and the wire connected to the truck center post.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Looks right here some pics


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

The pick up spring the spring it self was burnt. Notice I have a spear truck. I notice I have the insulated bushing on the same side as the pick up spring. spear spear truck opposite.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The sliding pickup shoe should be on the same side of the truck as the uninsulated wheels.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Ok thanks I was looking at my 490 and I notice the same thing u were saying thanks again. 
Al


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Put the wheel on the right side last night finished it up this morning put it on layout with 3 cars works fine. Thankyou Amflyer 
Al


----------



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Glad you got it running AL.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The rebushing was worth it. Sounds like you now have a well running diesel.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Had three of the large passenger cars 2 Pullman Marron color same color new haven took a little bit but as it ran and warmed up ran better my cellar has no heat it was 8 degrees this morning. But iam happy with it


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Bad news came home ran the 472 ran it for 10 minutes and it started slow down then it stopped took it off layout. truck chassis was very hot took apart discovered when I switch wheels the thrust plates came out put them back in the benched tested it. Ran it for few minutes put it on layout same thing this time stopped half way. Put on bench again notice armature move side to side. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks 
Al


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I guess I would need a picture of the thrust plate partially out to visualize what is happening. The bearing straps should keep things in position. Is the axle gear in the same position it was before the rebushing? It should be rotating in the same direction as original due to wear. Just changing which side of the chassis has the insulated wheels should have no effect, although they are now on the same side they were before the rebushing.


----------



## Sagas (Dec 13, 2013)

One other thing you could check for is end to end play of the armature and see if the small square end bushings (look like black cardboard) that normally are sitting in the slots of the chassis cradle are there. If those are missing they need to be replaced in order to keep the armature centered lengthwise.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Axle gear is inthe right place I marked everything so everything would go in right. I will send pics on the axle gear part I thought you mentioned armature gears. I think I did. I will take pic of that to


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Yes the thrust plates are bought new ones came in yesterday. Thankyou


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The worm covers should hold those thrust plates in place. I do not see how they can move as it appears in the picture with the worm covers screwed on.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Ok I have a spare truck I will swap it. And see what happens


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

And this is why I try and stay away from diesels,lol...


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

I was waiting to hair from you I know how much u love diesels. Lol


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Are these spacer or don't know what to call them they go under the bearings. Here are pics.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

They look like brass washers put under the bearings to change the depth of engagement of the worm gears with the driven gears on the axles. As the chassis axle holes wore into ovals it caused the axles and gears to move toward the armature. These washers raised the armature as compensation for the chassis wear. A clever idea to buy some additional operating time for a worn out chassis. 
Now that you have rebushed the chassis with the holes in the bushings back at the proper place, it should be ok to leave the brass washers out.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Ok thanks tom.


----------



## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

I have wondered about shimming up the armature. How far can it go before before it hits the field coil, or gets "magnetically disturbed" is the first question. Could you please get a thickness measurement on those spacers to share with us?


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Absolutely once I get home from work I will post it not a problem.
Al


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Measured it .002 thousands ck a few spots to make sure.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I think it is .002 inch or 2 thousand's inch. In any event that is relatively thin.
Flyernut has the right approach to Gilbert diesels.


----------



## miracleworker (Mar 23, 2021)

That is very thin.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Yes I deal with this all the time. Iam a machinest by trade it is 2 thousand thick in decimal form .002.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Left the shims out ran good with truck behind it for 10or fifteen minutes other thing is truck frame lose so iam wondering if the pick up shoes are moving side to side.


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I do not think it matters if the truck sideframes move side to side as long it is not more than about1/10". It just requires a good conduction path from the pickup shoe, through the metal bracket and screw, into the chassis. Then up through the field clamp assembly. I do not see the worm gear covers anywhere. I assume you are installing them prior to running the engine.


----------



## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

Yes I just started putting it back I wanted to measure the shims first.thankyou and everyone else for the help.
Al


----------

