# Thoughts about a Z-1000 Transformer for AF?



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Any thoughts or comments about a Z-1000 Transformer?:dunno:


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

As long as the AF runs on AC the Z should
be fine but quite powerful.

Don


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> Any thoughts or comments about a Z-1000 Transformer?:dunno:[/QUOTE
> You can pick up a 15B or a 16B transformer from Flyer rated at 110 and 175 watts vs. the Z-1000 rated at 80-100 watts, and for less money. The choice is yours but there are even 4B transformers at 100 watts that are even less money. 15B/16B are generally around the 60-85$ range on ebay and the clean 4B's are around 25-30$. The choice is up to you. Most transformers on ebay are usually described as working, the ones that are listed as "don't know if it works" stay clear of. They don't work and probably haven't in years! Look at who is selling them, if they are selling trains they know what works. Again, it's entirely up to you, if your more comfortable with a new transformer then it should be fine.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

cramden said:


> BrokeCurmudgeon said:
> 
> 
> > Any thoughts or comments about a Z-1000 Transformer?:dunno:[/QUOTE
> ...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, first I have to say I have a personal dislike of MTH products. Why - because
when the train hobby manufacturers decided to make their products DCC compatible.
All agreed except MTH. They came up with their own DCS system. Many of their products do not play well with DCC. I do not own any MTH products and won't. So I am Biased.
Now on the Z1000. It is an entry level transformer. It comes in MTH starter sets. 100 watts is not a gutsy transformer. I do not know the starting voltage. My AF transformer
is 250 watts. My Lionel ZW transformer is 275 watts. The Z1000 is a single throttle to
my knowledge. I would think your ping pong table could handle at least 2 loops. Meaning
you would need 2 Z1000. I recommend you get a transformer with at least 2 throttles.
I like the sound of that MRC dual o27 transformer. It has like 275 watts. It has 2 throttles.
Has tethered remote throttles. You can adjust the starting voltage. MRC is certainly an experienced transformer maker. I own many.

flyguy55 has the MRC unit for sale. I do not know what he wants for it.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BC, a lower starting voltage doesn't mean that the engine will even run let alone start up. Just for giggles I placed a 302 from 1953 on my loop and attached my volt meter to the 690 clip from the transformer,(I'm using a 22090 dual throttle)350 watts. Each throttle has 175 watts. The engine won't move until the volts reach approx. 7. I can run it slowly at around 7-8 volts with no other cars attached, but at a nice moderate speed around 9-11 volts. Remember like your 15B unless you lift the handle your trans. is still going to have volts on the track. Mine reads around 5 volts, I'm sure yours has a similar reading.That was the purpose of the dead man throttle. My trans. works similarly except it uses an on- off switch to cut power. This design was common on Flyer trans. to keep the reverser from cycling when you stopped the train. So a different trans. with a lower starting voltage might not help achieve what you want. The only way would be to replace the AC motor with a DC motor. Even running the AC motor on DC won't get you the results you're looking for. It all can be done it's just how much effort you want to put into it. Hope this helps.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Broke, first I have to say I have a personal dislike of MTH products. Why - because
> when the train hobby manufacturers decided to make their products DCC compatible.
> All agreed except MTH. They came up with their own DCS system. Many of their products do not play well with DCC. I do not own any MTH products and won't. So I am Biased.
> Now on the Z1000. It is an entry level transformer. It comes in MTH starter sets. 100 watts is not a gutsy transformer. I do not know the starting voltage. My AF transformer
> ...


I agree about MTH.:smilie_daumenneg: I have had many problems with some of their products on my N Scale layout. I will contact Flyguy55 re the transformer.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

cramden, I do not want to pretend I know about watts, volts, and amps. My AF transformer has a volt range of 7 to 15 volts. My lionel transformer has a volt range 
of 2 1/2 to 20 volts. How could a lower volt range not run a flyer at a lower speed?
I know 20 volts is too much for a flyer. LOL, they will fly off the track at much lower volts.
Volts does control speed. It does take higher volts to cycle reverse unit. My flyers run
very slow on my lionel transformer. That is what Broke is looking for.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

For kicks and grins I recreated the "great locomotive chase" last night. I put my new 302
and my 282 on same track loop. Their speed was not that much different. At a lower throttle the 302 would catch 282. At higher throttle 282 would catch the 302. Somewhere in the middle throttle they ran many laps keeping same distance from each other. I enjoyed it.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

mopac said:


> cramden, I do not want to pretend I know about watts, volts, and amps. My AF transformer has a volt range of 7 to 15 volts. My lionel transformer has a volt range
> of 2 1/2 to 20 volts. How could a lower volt range not run a flyer at a lower speed?
> I know 20 volts is too much for a flyer. LOL, they will fly off the track at much lower volts.
> Volts does control speed. It does take higher volts to cycle reverse unit. My flyers run
> very slow on my lionel transformer. That is what Broke is looking for.


The only way to tell what the track voltage is using your Lionel trans. would be with a volt meter hooked up to verify what the actual volts are when the engine is running. I'm not an expert in all things electric either but some thing are designed a certain way for specific reasons. Trying to run Flyers below 5 volts I would think would cause reversers to neutral out. I could be wrong. If AmFlyer is using the 027 Dual throttle and he states it works then I'm sure its fine, although I don't remember if he stated what the lower voltage range was. Just trying to keep BC from being disappointed if he decides to buy a different transformer and his results aren't as he expected.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

cramden said:


> The only way to tell what the track voltage is using your Lionel trans. would be with a volt meter hooked up to verify what the actual volts are when the engine is running. I'm not an expert in all things electric either but some thing are designed a certain way for specific reasons. Trying to run Flyers below 5 volts I would think would cause reversers to neutral out. I could be wrong. If AmFlyer is using the 027 Dual throttle and he states it works then I'm sure its fine, although I don't remember if he stated what the lower voltage range was. Just trying to keep BC from being disappointed if he decides to buy a different transformer and his results aren't as he expected.


 I have ordered an ammeter from China that I will place in series with the variable ac throttle output so that I can get a true indication of how the loco is running. I should be getting it in a week or two. 
I am building my ping pong table layout mainly for a test track as I live in a one bedroom apartment and don't have more room alongside my N Scale Layout. Also "She who must be obeyed" is beginning to lose patience even after 53 years.:cheeky4::hah::hah: Can't imagine why?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I agree totally cramden. We do not want Broke to be disappointed. When I get the speed very slow on my flyers the reverse units are not dropping out. I do have to give them more throttle to get them to change. I understand why AF make their transformers at
a 7 to 15 volt range. It does take 7 volts for reverse units to change. The problem I have
with AF transformers is 7 volts is almost half throttle. My AF transformer runs my O gauge
trains faster also.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, some day after my layout is built, I want to install amp and volt meters inline
with power wires. LOL. I like meters. I have not decided on analog (needle) or digital
readouts. I would think digital is more accurate.


I have seen some train nuts install a flat digital meter on the side of one of their box cars.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I have ordered an ammeter from China that I will place in series with the variable ac throttle output so that I can get a true indication of how the loco is running. I should be getting it in a week or two.
> I am building my ping pong table layout mainly for a test track as I live in a one bedroom apartment and don't have more room alongside my N Scale Layout. Also "She who must be obeyed" is beginning to lose patience even after 53 years.:cheeky4::hah::hah: Can't imagine why?


That can become more than a test track, it looks good. Just don't ask your wife "how about bunk beds so I can have more room". The knot on my head is almost gone. :hah::goofball:
Looks like you'll have a nice area to do quite a bit if you choose to.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I like your track plan Broke. Should be fun. I like your locomotive yard in phase 2.
Great place to park all your locomotives. Just my opinion, phase 2 should include just a simple loop around what you have there. Just to be able to run more than 1 loco at the same time.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> I like your track plan Broke. Should be fun. I like your locomotive yard in phase 2.
> Great place to park all your locomotives. Just my opinion, phase 2 should include just a simple loop around what you have there. Just to be able to run more than 1 loco at the same time.


The problem is three more turnouts.:smilie_daumenneg: I justified this to my wife that it would not cost much.hwell: But, I suppose, what she doesn't know wont hurt her.:hah: Another problem is I just saw an add in MR mag of a N Scale Baldwin with sound for only $399. I think that it would have been cheaper if I had taken up drinking.:laugh:


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> The problem is three more turnouts.:smilie_daumenneg: I justified this to my wife that it would not cost much.hwell: But, I suppose, what she doesn't know wont hurt her.:hah: Another problem is I just saw an add in MR mag of a N Scale Baldwin with sound for only $399. I think that it would have been cheaper if I had taken up drinking.:laugh:


$399 will buy a lot of Flyer and you won't wake up with blood shot eyes and a hangover!


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

It never ends Broke. There is always goodies you want. Somewhere on the train forum someone said he hoped his wife did not sell his train stuff for what he told her it cost.

Hey, what track planning software did you use to get your photo of your track plan.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> It never ends Broke. There is always goodies you want. Somewhere on the train forum someone said he hoped his wife did not sell his train stuff for what he told her it cost.
> 
> Hey, what track planning software did you use to get your photo of your track plan.


I used the free version of SCARM. I have used it for several years and I am quite happy. I would buy the full version but I doubt that I will ever do another layout.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> I have ordered an ammeter from China that I will place in series with the variable ac throttle output so that I can get a true indication of how the loco is running. I should be getting it in a week or two.
> I am building my ping pong table layout mainly for a test track as I live in a one bedroom apartment and don't have more room alongside my N Scale Layout. Also "She who must be obeyed" is beginning to lose patience even after 53 years.:cheeky4::hah::hah: Can't imagine why?


Just a question... Is the green portion of track for AF??.. Is the platform or ping pong table 4x8 or larger??.If the green portion of the design AF track, you're not going to get that amount of track in the 4 foot width. What about those sidings?? Will they be attached to the main loops??. Maybe I'm confused, again, lol!:laugh:


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

flyernut said:


> Just a question... Is the green portion of track for AF??.. Is the platform or ping pong table 4x8 or larger??.If the green portion of the design AF track, you're not going to get that amount of track in the 4 foot width. What about those sidings?? Will they be attached to the main loops??. Maybe I'm confused, again, lol!:laugh:


1: yes the green is for AF. In fact it is all AF.
2: Folding Ping Pong Table - 5X9
3: I don't understand question about the sidings. The yard sidings in Phase Two will need another switch which is not shown in my diagram.
4. Phase One is done and I will post a photo soon. It is 14 degrees at night and 30 degrees at daytime. My unheated garage is not too comfortable to work much in. currently 
( AmericanFlyer PingPong Modified.scarm
Parts List
No.	Image	Number	Name	Scale	Producer	Pcs.	Note
1 700	10"	S	American Flyer	28 
2 701	5"	S	American Flyer	11 
3 702	20"/30°	S	American Flyer	21	/Including 3 cuttings from whole tracks/
4 703	20"/15°	S	American Flyer	4 
5 722L	LH?m	S	American Flyer	3	/Manual turnout/
6 722R	RH?m	S	American Flyer	4	/Manual turnout/
7 730	Bmp	S	American Flyer	5	/Bumper/
*Total:*	*76*	/Tracks count: 76; Including 3 cuttings from whole tracks/
/Generated by SCARM 1.1.0 (a)/ - www.scarm.info <http://www.scarm.info/>)

Hope this helps


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, I downloaded SCARM. Must be a learning curve with this program. I can't even get started. Measurements are in MMs. I only understand inches and feet. I found the AF S
track in libraries, but can not do anything with it. Feeling stupid here. Any words of advice? I have read "getting started"
about 5 times. Does not help me a bit. Many people in HO use SCARM, and they are not the brightest beans in the burrito.
LOL.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Broke, I downloaded SCARM. Must be a learning curve with this program. I can't even get started. Measurements are in MMs. I only understand inches and feet. I found the AF S
> track in libraries, but can not do anything with it. Feeling stupid here. Any words of advice? I have read "getting started"
> about 5 times. Does not help me a bit. Many people in HO use SCARM, and they are not the brightest beans in the burrito.
> LOL.


Yes, a little bit of learning at first. But once you get Mixi’s program it isn’t hard at all. You can change from metrics in the setup. The first thing is to set a Start Point. It is the Red triangle in the toolbar. You can place it anywhere. Once done, select an object from the Libary and move it to the Red Start Point. In order to add track you always need a red Start indication. 
If you would like I could help you over the telephone. Just pm me with your tel number and a time to call you. I am not an expert but I am more tha happy to share what little I know.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Mopak, use their Help feature by pressing F1. Let me know how you are doing.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, your info was enough to get me started. Thank you very much. I was getting nowhere. I have started my track plan and have it saved. Closed everything and was able to pull it back up. So I am on my way. Very cool that the AF switches are the right shape.
I am going to enjoy this. Maybe by tomorrow night I will have my track plan to show.
Thanks again. Have some running around today so will catch you guys later.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

BrokeCurmudgeon said:


> 1: yes the green is for AF. In fact it is all AF.
> 2: Folding Ping Pong Table - 5X9
> 3: I don't understand question about the sidings. The yard sidings in Phase Two will need another switch which is not shown in my diagram.
> 4. Phase One is done and I will post a photo soon. It is 14 degrees at night and 30 degrees at daytime. My unheated garage is not too comfortable to work much in. currently
> ...


Aha!!! Your explanation un-confused me,lol!! Thanks..:appl:


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