# signal lighting ?????



## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I have a bunch of signal lights, couple a questions...........1st, what is this little guy for, 3 lights all clear?


now these I can figure out, manual switch, but do you just cut the wires & resplice, you'd need a humongus hole to put the switch thru???



Same deal on the crossing lights, these are wired for one or the other to be on, I'd like em on opposite sides of the same crossing, just hook em both to the same side of the switch???





traffic signals I don't think I'm going to get that crazy on this layout, but I would think you need a 3 way switch & then just synchronize them all?????



then there's these 2 funny instructions for these & the first 3 bulb shortie are all the same(& greek to me)


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Maybe the little one is supposed to have red/green/yellow lens?

The wires are soldered to the switches?
Just un-solder them then run the wires through a hole and solder them back up.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

The little guy is a dwarf signal used to mark how a turnout is set on the main. One on top the other, all clear, one side by side, the turnout is set for the siding.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Shay, I'm surprised it doesn't have colored lenses, is that normal?


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

The little guy in the first photo is a PRR style position-light dwarf signal.

Note: it's NOT just a turnout position indicator as simple as shaygetz suggests. You can certainly use it as such, but real railroad signaling tends to be a bit more complicated than that (but the rules and patterns are pretty logical once you understand what's going on).

Further note: those 3-colour signals you identify as traffic signals further down, I think those are supposed to be railroad dwarf signals, not highway traffic lights. None of these things are exactly to perfect scale with the large incandescent bulbs they're using. (it's probably about as close as they could get at the time.)


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Shay, I'm surprised it doesn't have colored lenses, is that normal?


Depends on the road...each Class 1 has their own signals.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Link to PRR signal aspects:

http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/pl/pl.htm#the_Aspects_

These used an array of clear lights in various positions, no colours.

You really wouldn't see this sort of thing alongside colour-light signals, but if that doesn't bother you, I guess Rule 1 applies...


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

shaygetz said:


> The little guy is a dwarf signal used to mark how a turnout is set on the main. One on top the other, all clear, one side by side, the turnout is set for the siding.


Actually technically this is completely backwards. 

Two lights vertical according the to chart is slow clear.
Two lights horizontal is stop.

You'd see a dwarf signal like this governing trains *leaving* a controlled siding (or otherwise entering the main track at an interlocking from a minor track through the diverging side of the switch).
The dwarf signal would show stop when the switch is lined for the main (and therefore against the train in the siding) and slow clear when the train is cleared to leave.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

K, I learned a little, I want to keep this setup as simple as possible, might just use the red/green towers & plant em near the switches & use the manual switch when I flip the turnout. like one on red, facing the siding & green on the main, then when I switch the turnout, just hit the manual switch to reverse the lights(wire em opposite each other) ?????? 
The amber on the dwarfs made me think street signal, would that just mean caution to a train? 
bear with me, My wife has RR workers in the family, but they don't talk shop much, Her dad was workin the rails, her brother is a conductor, N.Y. City transit.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

You could certainly do that. It woudln't necessarily be prototypical, but even a "simple" prototype signaling system might be more than you're interested in. It *can* be relatively straightforward, but at minimum requires some sort of track occupancy detection plus determining which way the switches are set. But a logical signal system can also be extremely difficult to overlay after the fact to a model railroad that's not designed for it. Many model railroads aren't necessarily built for the same reasons or following the same design philosophies as real railroads, so your track arrangement is probably anything but "simple" for signaling.

So in your case I probably would go with setting up your signals as basically switch indicators for mow. Above all be *consistent* with the way you do it, and you can define your own simple signal rules for your layout. Maybe later down the road you become more interested in studying real signal systems.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm ok at basic wiring, point a to point be, don't know if I'll ever get the stuff automated, as you can see by my whole diorama thread, I just do it, if it requires to much study or planning , well it doesn't get far. So for me, at this time(doubt I'll ever change though) red means stop & green means go! KISS at it's best!


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## waltr (Aug 15, 2011)

Those slide switches are meant to be mounted behind the panel. So you only need to cut a rectangular hole for the switch slid and two round holes for the mounting screws.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

That I get, but either the light pole has to go thru the switch hole or switch thru the light pole hole............hwell:
wires won't reach from where I want to put them to my control panel anyway, just seemed like seperate pigtails would have been better. :dunno:
Then there's those lousy 1" ones on the other 2 , that's really poor design, give me something to work with! :smilie_daumenneg: 
OK done bitchin, will somehow get them to do what I want :cheeky4: Rich.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Or you could just toss them in the garbage. 

Just cut the wires and add more wire to them, splice them together.?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

option 2 was my plan!


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## doct0rnic (Jun 28, 2013)

simplest signals is twc abs, green= clear proceed, red= stop, signal with mile marker on it, green= clear proceed, red= stop and proceed, yellow, approach=proceed prepared to stop at next signal, trains moving over 30 mph immediately reduce to that speed, flashing yellow, approach medium= proceed prepared to pass next signal not exceeding 40 mph.


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## TomFromMo (Aug 9, 2016)

Here's my first attempt at a home made turnout indicator. It's a little deeper than I wanted but I had trouble drilling holes that did not cause the piece to fall apart on a smaller piece. Overall I'm pretty happy with it. The structure is made from MDF and the LEDs are RGBs. The hoods over the LEDs are made from a piece of drinking straw. The bottom led is green (top red) when the main track is through. The upper led is green (bottom red) when the branch is open. Just need to make 7 more. Size is approx 27mm x 12mm x 10mm


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Not automobile trafic lights*

RUSTY Cuda;

The green, yellow, and red signals are for trains, not autos. The shape of the signal fixture and the fact that green is on top, show it is a railroad signal. (auto traffic lights have red on top.)
Yellow, on a railroad block signal usually means there is no train in the block of track (typically one mile long) directly ahead of your train. It also means there is a train two blocks ahead of you. The rules typically require your train to slow down to medium speed, and be prepared to stop at the next signal. It takes a lot of track distance to stop a train. The yellow light helps reduce the chance of running past a red light at the next signal, or running into the other train, by slowing you down.
Automating such a three color signal system, on a model railroad is complicated, and requires a lot of wiring. Also, except for large club layouts, most model railroads don't have the length of track to make a three color system necessary. Even an automatic, two color system is a challenge to wire. I would just stick with the manual slide switches. Lengthen their wires and install the switches on your control panel. With the wires cut, you won't need that humongous hole!

Regards, 

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

You can control turnout signal aspects by adding an atlas relay in parallel with your switch machine. We do this on our layout and have for years. 
It will handle 2 colors easily enough.

If you want to get fancy you can use the other side of the relay to control power routing to your sidings.
The little buggers are tough, mine have been in use since the Mid 90's


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## TomFromMo (Aug 9, 2016)

time warp said:


> You can control turnout signal aspects by adding an atlas relay in parallel with your switch machine. We do this on our layout and have for years.
> It will handle 2 colors easily enough.
> 
> If you want to get fancy you can use the other side of the relay to control power routing to your sidings.
> The little buggers are tough, mine have been in use since the Mid 90's


Decided to create my own turnout signal control. I drilled a small hole in the turnout throwbar and glued a small white led over the hole. Below the throwbar I mounted a photoresistor which connects to a circuit that drives the LEDs. When the led in the throwbar is over the photoresistor the lower light is green and the top is red. Reverses when the photoresistor is in the dark. I've probably got about $2 in parts for one turnout.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Wow, someone went fishing, all those signals are still in the box!


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Gee, Tom. You can't drop something like that on us and not furnish a schematic!
Parts list, ETC.
I have a dwarf ( way old) that attaches on top of that style of Atlas switch machine. It has a slide switch with contacts that are moved by the solenoid pin.


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## TomFromMo (Aug 9, 2016)

time warp said:


> Gee, Tom. You can't drop something like that on us and not furnish a schematic!
> Parts list, ETC.
> I have a dwarf ( way old) that attaches on top of that style of Atlas switch machine. It has a slide switch with contacts that are moved by the solenoid pin.


Been working on converting my chicken scratch schematic to TinyCad. Parts list next. Have not done thorough review but this should be close.










Image revised 9/2/2016


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