# End of the Line for Model Trains? Aging Hobbyists Trundle On



## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Today's article in the Wall Street Journal

https://www.wsj.com/articles/end-of-the-line-for-model-trains-aging-hobbyists-trundle-on-1455157546


----------



## WestMetroMedic (Apr 22, 2019)

New to the hobby here, but I'm excited to share this hobby with my two young some once they get old enough to not treat my trains with the "enthusiasm" he does his wooden trains...

That being said, there will be growing pains like any other classic hobby. Ham radio is going through a transition as well but it stays relevant.

I'm looking forward to the alternative to video games for my boys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Atlanta (Apr 29, 2019)

I think not...me I am still nearly 50 years old but my nephew is still 5 years old and he is very interesting in being an engineer at home to see his first loco running in G Scale.
He will get some cars from me by every yearly visit and maybe when he becomes older, his interests changing into H0 Scale trains, too.

I think that the older more experienced RR Medellers can share their aknowledge with the newcomers so that our hobby never will reach the Death End of Line.

Ya Ingo


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yet another "the hobby is dying" thread.....hwell:


----------



## reggfx (Jul 21, 2018)

Passing On The Hobby after 40yrs

Hobby Born Again After 40yrs!





Hobby Passing it On To Youth Video
Note: Our Layout has progressed tremendously since this video.














Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

After I'm dead and gone, it really doesn't matter to me what happens to the hobby. I don't expect my g sons to carry on the interest if they want to play with something else. 
If model railroading is going the way of the type writer, so be it. I'm enjoying the hobby while I processing oxygen.


----------



## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

It seems this subject comes up at least once a year and yet the hobby is still thriving.


----------



## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Actually, that article is from 2016...


----------



## jimben (Jun 27, 2018)

WestMetroMedic said:


> New to the hobby here, but I'm excited to share this hobby with my two young some once they get old enough to not treat my trains with the "enthusiasm" he does his wooden trains...
> 
> That being said, there will be growing pains like any other classic hobby. Ham radio is going through a transition as well but it stays relevant.
> 
> ...


I believe model train hobby is fairing better than Ham radio. I am involved in both. Problem with ham radio is although there is as many hams today vs 15 years ago the use of digital modes thru repeater networks is making the HF bands rather empty. New kids like the use of technology vs old fashioned direct communications. To me is like using a cell phone.


----------



## reggfx (Jul 21, 2018)

Well. Warren Buffet Likes the Hobby. It still thrives. Check out BNSF Railtalk on the hobby:

Warren Buffett’s Berkyville: BNSF train set brings big-time fun in small-scale way | BNSF
http://www.bnsf.com/news-media/railtalk/heritage/berkyville.html

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

If the laws of physics don't change any time soon, the most economical way to move mass is over water. Second to that comes rail. Where there are trains, boys (mostly, some trans, some girls, some merely confused or unsure) will have an interest and will keep the hobby going, even if at half of its current size, or less.

In an economy where discretionary spending is ending for the current people under 30, something has to give. Hobbies will bear the brunt, the auto industry will die a slow death, and you'll see cameras follow along the same path. The 'kids' don't cook, don't play house, don't drive, and they're apparently not even having much nookie these days. Sure, they go on sites and hook up for a night, but who needs the cow when the milk is essentially paid for with a decent bottle of wine? Instead, they spend their time video streaming, hanging out, or texting/sexting. Life is good for them because mom still cleans up after them.

All this to say that the hobby is shrinking. It must. But unless trains are banished to sub-terranean places (don't laugh, I'd put money on that happening to an extent, especially in cities where grade crossings are a nuisance), kids will still find a way to have a scale representation in their basements.


----------



## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

J.Albert1949 said:


> Actually, that article is from 2016...


LOL The OP called it "today's article"


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dennis461 said:


> LOL The OP called it "today's article"


Maybe he takes a while to read them. 

Seriously, similar articles have been appearing for years. The hobby is still growing strong. There is enough new blood and enough innovation that I'm not worried.


----------



## MikeL (Mar 21, 2015)

Interesting article. I wish there were some reliable metrics to measure the health of our hobby - total sales would be great.

I go to probably three trains shows a year (Montreal, Quebec). Anecdotally, the demographic is something like: 
75% middle-age+ white male,
10% younger male 
10% kids (mostly male)
5% female

In other words, the demographic of a typical CFL game. (Inside joke for my Canadian friends.)

Mike


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

jimben said:


> I believe model train hobby is fairing better than Ham radio. I am involved in both. Problem with ham radio is although there is as many hams today vs 15 years ago the use of digital modes thru repeater networks is making the HF bands rather empty. New kids like the use of technology vs old fashioned direct communications. To me is like using a cell phone.


I have a Kenwood D74 and tried using the D-Star mode but I'm so far out I can't hit a repeater. No amp, but the 5 watts out of the radio. It's a great handheld rig, but I am using analog. 

The radio also has APRS and I played with that a bit, but generally find it useless in my situation. It's nice to see where others are that I've talked to if they too have APRS, but other than that I can find no use for it.

The GPS is a nice feature, but it's a battery hog.

The D74 does everything I want it to (and then some), but I do wish the scan rate was a little faster when I'm monitoring on one VFO and listening on 146.52 on the other VFO.


----------



## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Dennis461 said:


> LOL The OP called it "today's article"


In fairness to the OP, while the article is from 2016, today's date is under the WSJ banner at the top.:dunno:


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

MikeL said:


> Interesting article. I wish there were some reliable metrics to measure the health of our hobby - total sales would be great.
> 
> I go to probably three trains shows a year (Montreal, Quebec). Anecdotally, the demographic is something like:
> 75% middle-age+ white male,
> ...


That 10% estimate of younger males might have been higher in the past before video games took over.

I've had a layout of one kind or another since I was eight or so after receiving my first Tyco set at the age of seven. I couldn't imagine life without trains in some shape or form.

One of my friends at that time had a small layout in N scale, nothing extravagant, but for an eight year old it was pretty neat. Some of my other friends in the early 70's had at least a train set and an oval of track.

My son started a layout in his teens and had some nice equipment at the time, but he joined the Marines and that layout was never finished. He's never gone back to trains as he too is now into video games and is a software engineer working for a gaming company.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

MikeL said:


> Interesting article. I wish there were some reliable metrics to measure the health of our hobby - total sales would be great


I would think that model train manufacturers going out of business/becoming bankrupt would be a good measuring tool.....not sure if I've seen any lately, in fact, many new ones have come on board.....


----------



## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Maybe it's true . . . what other business is M.B. Klein in? The inventory at modeltrainstuff.com of what I want to buy (N scale RTR freight cars, pre-assembled structures, and pre-painted vehicles) has become so disappointing that hobbylinc.com has become my "go to" online hobby shop.


----------



## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Quote from reggfx on 5/11/19:

Well. Warren Buffet Likes the Hobby. It still thrives. Check out BNSF Railtalk on the hobby:

Warren Buffett’s Berkyville: BNSF train set brings big-time fun in small-scale way | BNSF
http://www.bnsf.com/news-media/railt...erkyville.html


Warren Buffett should follow the lead of Lance Fritz, CEO of Union Pacific, and get some old CB&Q, Great Northern, and Santa Fe steamers rejuvenated for use in keeping people interested in trains. UP's 4014 is a huge shot in the arm for train enthusiasts, as is 844. Those two engines attract crowds! :thumbsup:


----------



## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

There is apparently an operational ex-ATSF streamlined Northern BNSF 4449 (Kato's model looks similar to UP 844), and SP&S 700, a big oil burning Baldwin Northern undergoing a boiler rebuild in Portland, OR (although it belongs to a non-profit).


----------



## jimben (Jun 27, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> That 10% estimate of younger males might have been higher in the past before video games took over.QUOTE]
> Video games are a fantasy, model RR trains are real.


----------



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Old_Hobo said:


> Yet another "the hobby is dying" thread.....hwell:





Spence said:


> It seems this subject comes up at least once a year and yet the hobby is still thriving.


Yep. hwell:


----------



## Joefrumjersey (Apr 16, 2013)

Folks were saying the same thing in 1961, when I first started reading Model Railroader and Trains. That new Model Motoring hobby was taking over...

Boris


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

GNfan said:


> Maybe it's true . . . what other business is M.B. Klein in? The inventory at modeltrainstuff.com of what I want to buy (N scale RTR freight cars, pre-assembled structures, and pre-painted vehicles) has become so disappointing that hobbylinc.com has become my "go to" online hobby shop.


It's not what business, but what scale. Their sales / inventory has always been focused heavily on HO. Their inventory of that is as good as ever, eith the exception of Walthers track and turnouts, but that's a supplier issue and has nothing to do with MB Klein.


----------



## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

All I know is that my last 4 online orders of N scale scenery have gone somewhere other than modeltrainstuff.com (and there will be another this week) because they've seemingly discontinued brands like Imex. Or (pardon my snark), why bother stocking and selling $8 die-cast cars when you're selling $250 DCC w/sound locomotives?


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Probably because the margin is higher on $8 cars than on $250 locomotives.


----------



## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

MichaelE said:


> That 10% estimate of younger males might have been higher in the past before video games took over.
> 
> My son started a layout in his teens and had some nice equipment at the time, but he joined the Marines and that layout was never finished. He's never gone back to trains as he too is now into video games and is a software engineer working for a gaming company.


This makes me put video games into a whole new perspective. Becoming a gamer can actually be the beginning of a career path. That never occurred to me.


----------



## Atlanta (Apr 29, 2019)

Here in germany I am Admin of my own RR Forum and this discussion will be there allways, too, specially when any of the bigger manufacturers went into bankrupty or insolvence again and again. Normally such companies merging into bigger companies and old brands are like any fallen flag RR.
I cannot count how often the press is predicting the undergoing world of model RRs.
At least the companies finding any way to continueing the old popular product lines.
As Example the old owners of MDC Roundhouse tried to find any manager who would continueing their popular model train kits or RTR lines of products. The owners of MDC Roundhouse decided to sell their Company to Horizon Hobbies Inc. who promised to continueing there product lines. Now the new Roundhouse rolling stuff is being distributed by Athearn but is being produced anywhere in China by low payed employees.
Their R-T-R cars got some reviews and yes some run better than before.
I have got a lot of their Wagon and Loco Kits from before they came to Horizon Hobbies Inc. and yes at some mosels you can see that they did reviews of the old products, which coming now as ready to run models.

There are a lot of interests to new comers in our hobby and yes the manufacturers in europe trying to do their best to hold modern trends in operating DCC stuff with android mobil phones.
There are some different companies who do fight with new ideas against each other to get the most new customers.
Look at germany how expensive the model trains becoming there.
Are you willing to buy train stuff of more than $ 700 for any kind of spracial detailed locomotive or for around $ 550 for a loco kit of same loco model?

When purchasing a Bachmann Oldtimer 2-6-0 Mugul equipped with DCC sound decoder of the digitraxx tsunami wave 1000 series, you need paying 400 € or more in germany but less than 300 € in the Neighbourhood EU States, than anything goes wrong. An higher V.A.T. or general sales tax is not the cause, germany's general sales tax is actually by 19 % and at the netherlands by around 21 % but there are the wanted model is much cheaper.
Such price differences of what people need to invest for RR models is not a well trend that newcomers want to invest into their hobby, they are looking around to find more cheaper hobbies.
If you will get shocked of what we here should pay for model train stuff, have a look on eBay germany.
That is one cause more why I am modelling US trains mostly because I can purchase train stuff much cheaper than of what I need pay here in germany.
It seems that the model train hobby slightly becomes an hobby for richer people only.


----------



## seacoast (Sep 12, 2010)

Modeltrainstuff- MBKliens still has a great inventory of train supplies, I get great prices from them and quick shipping no complaints here.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I knew European equipment was going to be at least a third to double the price of similar US equipment, but I'm willing to pay a bit more for equipment not made in China.

I pondered this decision for months before committing to a Euro-based layout, but I have no regrets; it is the layout I have always wanted to build.

New tariffs will not effect European prices for made in Europe equipment either. 

The quality I've seen from Roco, Acme, and TRIX, exceeds any US HO manufacturer I've seen to date. This includes Faller, Vollmer, Viessmann, Noch, and others too.





Atlanta said:


> Here in germany I am Admin of my own RR Forum and this discussion will be there allways, too, specially when any of the bigger manufacturers went into bankrupty or insolvence again and again. Normally such companies merging into bigger companies and old brands are like any fallen flag RR.
> I cannot count how often the press is predicting the undergoing world of model RRs.
> At least the companies finding any way to continueing the old popular product lines.
> As Example the old owners of MDC Roundhouse tried to find any manager who would continueing their popular model train kits or RTR lines of products. The owners of MDC Roundhouse decided to sell their Company to Horizon Hobbies Inc. who promised to continueing there product lines. Now the new Roundhouse rolling stuff is being distributed by Athearn but is being produced anywhere in China by low payed employees.
> ...


----------



## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

It's not dying everywhere. Here in Omaha, our local House of Trains is doubling their floor space and expanding their inventory to fill it.

The local annual train show and vendor setup at the city auditorium is so well attended that at the last one the facility ran out of parking space and the only place to park was in nearby businesses.

When I can't find something I'm after locally, I too go first to M.B. Klein, good inventory, good prices and quick shipping.


----------



## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

There’s a niche in the hobby that we don’t talk about much, and that’s collectors. Many of these folks just have collections of model trains but no layout. 
This can be all types of model railroad gear. I saw an eBay ad once where a guy was selling his dad’s train set collection. These were all unopened HO sets. 
The point being that even if layout building was declining, train items would continue to be sold.


----------



## Joefrumjersey (Apr 16, 2013)

prrfan said:


> There’s a niche in the hobby that we don’t talk about much, and that’s collectors.....
> The point being that even if layout building was declining, train items would continue to be sold.


Collectors, are larger than a niche, they are a substantial portion of the buyers of specialty models. I believe that Walthers has gradually changed their focus toward the collector market, In particular, with the Proto Line Deluxe version annual passenger train.

On the other hand, modelers continue to buy, so there is an endless supply of "craftsman" type models, both high end "Rivet Counter" Ready to Run and specialty kits.

Boris


----------



## Atlanta (Apr 29, 2019)

Most of the german model manufacturers let producing their products in China, their finally boxing is at Germany so the need not declaring it where it will be produced before. It is not a Top Secret that Roco, Fleischmann (GFN), Lima, Bachmann, Brawa, RivaRossi, Trix, Märklin, LGB or several others get their product lines completely manufactured in China sometimes.
Pola went in Insolvence and Faller bought it and added some Pola kits to their product line.
Vollmer was the next who went in Insolvence shortly after they bought the bankrupty Kibri. Vollmer is now owned by Viessmann. The buildings are produced in China or older Forms of kits are sold to US American companies. 
The old Kibri Wild West Frontier Town kits are now available from Anerican Limited, only...they aren't true to scale of 1:87 and are produced in 1:100 only.
When assambling one of the old Kibri kits I used a Grandline door in 1:87 it was around 6 mm higher than the Kibri door which came with the kit. I measured all dimensions and found out that they were in 1:100 only.
I purchased from Walthers the same kit from American and was shocked. They did not reviewed the old molding forms and produced these former Kibri Kits in 1:100 too.

Auhagen is one of the last manufacturers of model railway building kits who is manufacturing their productlines completely in eastern germany.
Eastern german employees getting around 80 % of the salery than same employees in western germany.
Piko also does producing their train stuff in eastern germany, only. 
Nearly all other companies let producing most of their products partitionally or completely in China. The finally boxing will be done in germany. Our national laws do allow this trick, so the end customer does not know where the high priced stuff really was made before.

From time to time happen some producing accidents because of low quality material used during the production in China.
As example the very Expensive BRAWA locomotives got the Zinkpest. The Zinkpest infected molded white metal what becomes slightly dark grey and can break easily. It is a chemical oxidation procedure of the white metal. BRAWA got a big Immage demadge by that problem and they got fixed the problem after produced the Zink Whitemetal Bodies in Germany again but the Assambling of their models was done in China, too.
China and Germany still not having a trading conflict.


----------



## Atlanta (Apr 29, 2019)

For me located in central europe it is not easy in the moment of what all for nonsense is told here by importers of US American RR stuff. The general meaning is that we would run into a trading conflict with the USA...some importer have been raised up their prices rapidly onto higher niveaus. 
Very often it is cheaper for me to do self imports into the EU that are much cheaper sometimes.
And in cause if there would really happen any trading conflict, well than I could purchase US products via Canada without any customs penalties.


----------



## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Look, I have no beef with modeltrainstuff.com; in fact I ordered some things this morning.  It just "feels" in N scale scenery like some well-known product lines are "discontinued when sold out", and they're down to what's left, like the Imex is down to a distressed storage shed and a 2-pack of propane tanks. There's 1 Busch vehicle, a grey Land Rover. Until recently (when they added some Minis) all of the Oxford Diecast is military. All of the Custom Metal Works cars are law enforcement. Etc.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Atlanta said:


> Most of the german model manufacturers let producing their products in China, their finally boxing is at Germany so the need not declaring it where it will be produced before. It is not a Top Secret that Roco, Fleischmann (GFN), Lima, Bachmann, Brawa, RivaRossi, Trix, Märklin, LGB or several others get their product lines completely manufactured in China sometimes.
> Pola went in Insolvence and Faller bought it and added some Pola kits to their product line.
> Vollmer was the next who went in Insolvence shortly after they bought the bankrupty Kibri. Vollmer is now owned by Viessmann. The buildings are produced in China or older Forms of kits are sold to US American companies.
> The old Kibri Wild West Frontier Town kits are now available from Anerican Limited, only...they aren't true to scale of 1:87 and are produced in 1:100 only.
> ...


Roco and Fleischmann do not manufacture in China. Their cheapest hobby line is made in Vietnam, but the rest of both lines are made in Austria, Romania, and Slovakia. Locomotives are made exclusively in Austria.


----------



## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

I have to admit (as a former industrial chemist) that I knew about "tin disease" but had never heard of "zinc pest" before. I wonder if its something our collectors of tinplate and "pre-war" have to be concerned with? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

GNfan said:


> Look, I have no beef with modeltrainstuff.com; in fact I ordered some things this morning.  It just "feels" in N scale scenery like some well-known product lines are "discontinued when sold out", and they're down to what's left, like the Imex is down to a distressed storage shed and a 2-pack of propane tanks. There's 1 Busch vehicle, a grey Land Rover. Until recently (when they added some Minis) all of the Oxford Diecast is military. All of the Custom Metal Works cars are law enforcement. Etc.


Model Train Stuff has 724 N scale structure kits IN STOCK, and 270 N Scale vehicles (although in fairness, a number of these are 1:144 airplane kits). But the point is, just because the specific inventory that interests YOU isn't currently available, that doesn't mean that the business, or the brand, or the industry, or the hobby, is failing.


----------



## jimben (Jun 27, 2018)

I believe after all the replies the model RR hobby is healthy.


----------

