# Put Some Gold Bonnet On It



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

For those who saw the Gold Bonnet Alcos in the Lionel catalog, and thought maybe they might look good on the layout, but weren't sure about pre-ordering . . . 

Keep in mind that MTH is making a limited (very) run of Premier Goldbonnet Alcos and the four-car train, too. Many of them are already pre-ordered, though. Brian and I and others already have ours reserved. 

Pat's Trains has some still available. I don't know who else will. Very little info is availalble on MTH's website but Pat has info.


----------



## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

Lee Willis I looked at 2018 and 2019 mth catalogs seen no where was just wondering what the description and pricing was is all


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Did not know that MTH had announced a limited run of the Gold Alcos. Will MTH use their first class chrome finish on the Alco.

I just can't get to enthused in the set since it was just for a GE promotion and only touring of Southern California for less than a month. After that the Santa Fe repainted the Alco back to original colors.

Bill


----------



## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Did not know that MTH had announced a limited run of the Gold Alcos. Will MTH use their first class chrome finish on the Alco.
> 
> I just can't get to enthused in the set since it was just for a GE promotion and only touring of Southern California for less than a month. After that the Santa Fe repainted the Alco back to original colors.
> 
> Bill


Well, I can't get enthused about about this one either, Bill. But then I guess if you dangle something with "bonnet" on it in front of some, they'll go for it, hook, line, and sinker!


----------



## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

LEE sounds like a commercial from the 70s?

I'm on it too. Thanks to you and BRIAN for the heads up.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

There is one line on MTH's website announcing it, implying it was addressed in a customer newsletter (I must sign up for those things some day) with no other announcement. 

Regardless, Pat and Pat's Trains can fill you in if you want to order a set.


----------



## Guest (Jan 24, 2019)

IN MY OPINION, the MTH Gold Sante Fe PA's with matching passenger cars blows away the Lionel offering. Here's why:

1. Much earlier delivery in 2019. The engines will be available next month and the passenger cars in June. They must have had a big jump on the Big L with this offering. The "early bird" theory.

2. The PA's can be ordered separately.

3. The MTH models will be plated and we all know how good MTH does with their engine plating. 

4. The MTH matching passenger cars will also be plated and have passenger figures.

5. I am told the MTH engine models will have a "superb" application of gold paint as well as a clean crisp warbonnet.

This is a very limited run, to if you want this set, jump on it today. Pat's a good place to start.


----------



## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> IN MY OPINION, the MTH Gold Sante Fe PA's with matching passenger cars blows away the Lionel offering. Here's why:
> 
> 1. Much earlier delivery in 2019. The engines will be available next month and the passenger cars in June. They must have had a big jump on the Big L with this offering. The "early bird" theory.
> 
> ...


Brian,

I am shocked to see you going with the 18", ABS, MTH passenger cars. I would have thought you might have considered painting the trucks on some high shine K-Lines gold as better alternative.


----------



## Guest (Jan 24, 2019)

Jason, it was the plating that put me over the edge. Plus, I don't have an available set of K-Line Sante Fe passenger cars. You know how tough the shiny tops are to find.


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

The only K-Line Santa Fe Aluminum on eBay ...


----------



## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Jason, it was the plating that put me over the edge. Plus, I don't have an available set of K-Line Sante Fe passenger cars. You know how tough the shiny tops are to find.


Gotcha, I didn't see that they were plated. I hope you really like them. 

I think I am going to run the engine with the K-lines and just pretend they have golden trucks. Or if I can track down another four car set, I'll paint the trucks and be a happy camper. 

Was able to get Pat to place the pre-order for me today, thanks for the tip off on this. I missed picking up the plated ABA set last month, have been having buyer remorse since.


----------



## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

Millstonemike said:


> The only K-Line Santa Fe Aluminum on eBay ...
> 
> View attachment 482252


WOW!

Looks like the 15" cars are getting the 21" car prices... Wonder what the 21" are going for, I stopped minding the prices a year or so ago.


----------



## Guest (Jan 24, 2019)

*"Was able to get Pat to place the pre-order for me today, thanks for the tip off on this. I missed picking up the plated ABA set last month, have been having buyer remorse since."*

Great news, Jason!


----------



## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

Is there a photo of the MTH offerings? Many thanks for the head's up. I must have missed his e-mail announcing these.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Hey guys, to add a bit more to Brian's post earlier today...

I did a search for "Santa Fe Gold" over on the MTH website, and came up with a couple of hits. It seems an announcement article comes up empty right now, but the other key hit mentions this SKU: 20-21154-1 Alco PA A-unit with hi-rail wheels (Santa Fe Gold)

In addition, here's the MTH product web-page: https://www.mthtrains.com/20-21154-1. Unfortunately, no product photo yet. But I'm a strong proponent of MTH's plated-finish locomotives being the best in the industry. So I don't expect MTH will disappoint us with this offering.

I didn't find anything about matching cars, but I did speak with Pat of Pat's Trains today. He mentioned the gold Alco locomotives are due in within a couple of weeks, and the matching cars (4 of them) are due in around the May/June time-frame. The cars will be plated to match the locomotives and will also have gold trucks. Sounds like a stunning set in the works -- limited to a production quantity of 75 or less... of which Pat expects to have 25 or so.

If you click on the "Find it Locally" tab in the above web-page, it appears currently Pat's Trains (in WV) and Roundhouse South (in FL) are the only dealers that have the gold Alco PA's currently on order. So I don't know how widely available these will be carried by MTH dealers. Pat is a terrific dealer, so give him a call if you're interested. 

David


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> I don't expect MTH will disappoint us with this offering.
> 
> Pat is a terrific dealer, so give him a call if you're interested.
> 
> David


Absolutely. I've ordered two complete sets from Pat, so I will have an AA-pair and eight cars. Gotta have "bling" on the layout!!!


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2019)

Lee, I am confident that you will have a lot of "bling". I am a big fan as well.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Absolutely. I've ordered two complete sets from Pat, so I will have an AA-pair and eight cars. Gotta have "bling" on the layout!!!


Good minds think alike, Lee!!! 

David


----------



## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

WOW with only 25 sets at PAT's wonder how many are left? I know I have a set with an extra A unit and BRIAN has a set and an extra A, and LEE has two sets, seems like a quarter of PAT's engines are going to MTF members?


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

laz57 said:


> WOW with only 25 sets at PAT's wonder how many are left? I know I have a set with an extra A unit and BRIAN has a set and an extra A, and LEE has two sets, seems like a quarter of PAT's engines are going to MTF members?


Guys, if you recall... I mentioned something in one of our threads here several weeks ago about this phenomenon of dealers carrying "exclusive" limited run product offerings as a way to give folks like us an added incentive to take the purchase-plunge this year -- since many of us are buying more selectively these days. With some of MTH's recent Standard Gauge offerings, a few dealers only have TEN which is even a smaller quantity. For example, I know SideTrack Hobbies already has committed their special-run quantity of 10 "Christmas Special" 400E's with matching passenger cars. That happened a few weeks ago, and we're a whole year away from the next Christmas!!! I believe those sets are expected to arrive around the March 2019 time frame, so most folks will likely store them away for 9 months. But they'll be ready for Christmas 2019 nonetheless.

So that's how some dealers are mitigating the trend to hold off pre-ordering until products arrive in stores. That works when "good quality" is a known-quantity and folks can purchase with confidence. Failing that, even the exclusive limited-run approach can be a non-starter.

David


----------



## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Good minds think alike, Lee!!!
> 
> David


Seriously?


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2019)

David, you are right on the money. Special or short runs will become the norm and expect to see a lot more of this. It is good for the consumer and the supplier/dealer alike. 

The Gold Sante Fe Warbonnets are an excellent example of this. The availability for this set will dry up quickly (if it has not already been completely spoken for).


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2019)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Seriously?


Verne, while the Gold Bonnet doesn't appeal to me at all, just like the War Bonnet, Yellow Bonnet, Black Bonnet, etc., I understand that we are all different and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

Count me in on a full set plus an extra engine. It's another benefit of this forum because I didn't even know about it. I normally get his e-mails about special runs, but I must have missed this. I need to start going to his site and looking at the pre-orders section from now on.

Thanks again for this thread. It's going to look fantastic.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Seriously?


Vern, I realize the gold bonnet may not be to everyone's liking. But what I meant by my "good minds think alike" comment was regarding the ability to go with a double-A locomotive. As much as I like F3/F7's and Alco PA's, I always preferred a double-A minimum configuration even if the prototype didn't go that route. And if B-units are available, I usually spring for an ABBA configuration -- just looks cool that way... to my eyes.

Now once you go with an AA config, then you need some cars to go behind a nice locomotive set like that. And for me, 4 cars behind an AA is OK, but more would be better... like 6 or 8 or more. In this case, it sounded like Pat was selling cars in sets of 4, but we'll need to see ultimately how everything pans out once we get specific SKU's. It's not 100% clear to me (yet) if the cars will be sold individually or as 4-car sets. So for now, I'm in for two 4-car sets -- with each set including a baggage car and 3 coaches/diners. As far as I know, no observation car has been announced for these offerings -- possibly because one never existed in real life... in which case hopefully one car comes equipped with rear marker lamps. We shall see.

Truth be told... if all I saw were Lionel's catalog'd images, I wouldn't give this set a second look. HOWEVER, knowing what I know first-hand about MTH's steel plated appearance, I'm stoked about an MTH offering since I think it will be quite the eye-catcher -- both on the display shelf and the layout!


David


----------



## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Vern, I realize the gold bonnet may not be to everyone's liking. But what I meant by my "good minds think alike" comment was regarding the ability to go with a double-A locomotive. As much as I like F3/F7's and Alco PA's, I always preferred a double-A minimum configuration even if the prototype didn't go that route. And if B-units are available, I usually spring for an ABBA configuration -- just looks cool that way... to my eyes.
> 
> Now once you go with an AA config, then you need some cars to go behind a nice locomotive set like that. And for me, 4 cars behind an AA is OK, but more would be better... like 6 or 8 or more. In this case, it sounded like Pat was selling cars in sets of 4, but we'll need to see ultimately how everything pans out once we get specific SKU's. It's not 100% clear to me (yet) if the cars will be sold individually or as 4-car sets. So for now, I'm in for two 4-car sets -- with each set including a baggage car and 3 coaches/diners. As far as I know, no observation car has been announced for these offerings -- possibly because one never existed in real life... in which case hopefully one car comes equipped with rear marker lamps. We shall see.
> 
> ...


It seems to me like they are in 4-car sets:

http://www.patstrains.com/View_Details/?ID=52170&View_Details=View+Details

Here is the link to the engine: http://www.patstrains.com/View_Details/?ID=52169&View_Details=View+Details


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

towdog, yes... those look like the ones, but the description reads one baggage, two coach and one observation. And I could swear Pat told me one baggage and three coaches/diners... like the real train. 

David


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> David, you are right on the money. Special or short runs will become the norm and expect to see a lot more of this. It is good for the consumer and the supplier/dealer alike.
> 
> The Gold Sante Fe Warbonnets are an excellent example of this. The availability for this set will dry up quickly (if it has not already been completely spoken for).


Yep, about a dozen years or so ago I pre-ordered the MTH Premier ABA SP&S Alco PA's. About 6 months later I asked Andy at York if MTH will still manufacture them assuming the order quantity was super low. He told me less than a dozen at that time of the SP&S were on pre-order but since there were other PA Alcos in the mix they would do the SP&S also. I have only seen one other set for sale in the secondary market.

Bill


----------



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

CincinnatiWestern said:


> Brian,
> 
> I am shocked to see you going with the 18", ABS, MTH passenger cars. I would have thought you might have considered painting the trucks on some high shine K-Lines gold as better alternative.


Me too. I had to read Brian's post a couple of times to make sure I was reading it correctly.


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2019)

Denny, the alternative is terrible. My one experience with the Lionel 21" passenger cars was horrendous. *NEVER, NEVER, AGAIN! *


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Some comments:
First, I completely understand anyone who doesn't want Gold Bonnet. It it is not your thing, fine. I had no interest in the Gold Bonnet locos until I discovered that there really had been a a prototype. There was, and that pushed me over the edge - if its real, yes, I want to have a model of it. And of the two options, Lionel or MTh, based on experience, I went with the MTH.

All that said, I completely agree with Rocky Mountaineer, and could have said it myself, "I always preferred a double-A minimum configuration even if the prototype didn't go that route. And if B-units are available, I usually spring for an ABBA configuration -- just looks cool that way... to my eyes."


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Denny, the alternative is terrible. My one experience with the Lionel 21" passenger cars was horrendous. *NEVER, NEVER, AGAIN! *


Generally speaking, I think Lionel's venture into 21" passenger cars has been less than stellar on several fronts. For me personally, the only thing good about them was the fact that they overlapped with Lionel bringing back its popular StationSounds technology that had gone dormant for several years. But that's not unique to 21" cars, as we're now seeing StationSounds offerings return to Lionel's 18" heavyweight products as well.

I think Lionel sold us all a bill of goods with all the hype around its 21" ABS cars. For one, we were led to believe the price for extruded aluminum passenger cars was cost-prohibitive, and ABS would be more price-friendly to consumers. So I find it quite ironic that Lionel's last aluminum passenger car 4-pack carried a $640 MSRP -- and that was WITH people inside, whereas its most recent ABS 4-pack in the new 2019 catalog comes in at a cool $700 sans passengers.

Add to that the shoddy factory workmanship will all kinds of issues from trucks falling off to couplers not working to paint blotches to highly visible interior circuit boards in some StationSounds dining cars to.... well, you get the idea... and your looking at expectations unfulfilled. 

Most recently, I was terribly underwhelmed with Lionel's 18" heavyweights that left me feeling I'd been taken for a ride. So I know I'm staying clear of Lionel passenger cars for the time being -- until I see strong evidence that Lionel has addressed these shortcomings.

So for now, MTH is my go-to company, and Atlas-O runs a strong second for everyday passenger train needs. On occasion, I'll also spring for a Golden Gate Depot passenger train, but that's for super special trains.

David


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2019)

Several years back, I visited with Matt A. at the Lionel booth at a train show (not the York Meet). He told me that in the near future, Lionel would announce the 21" plastic passenger cars and the price would be more than competitive with the aluminum passenger cars. Guess as David points out, that didn't work out so well.

I am just delighted that we have a much better alternative to Lionel with respect to the Gold Warbonnet set. 

I also agree with Lee. A year or so ago when I found the photo of the actual Gold Warbonnet, though the paint job appeared to be less than perfect, I liked it, actually I liked it a lot. Now to learn that it is now available in an O-Gauge model, those of us who ordered it will be very happy. This is one for the good guys.


----------



## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I wish you guys nothing but the best with these new sets. I really wish I could see photos.
Right now I only have the Black Bonnets but I'm sure I will be adding to my collection eventually.


----------



## Guest (Jan 30, 2019)

Spence, as soon as I get the engines, I will post some photos. Probably later in February.


----------



## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Spence, as soon as I get the engines, I will post some photos. Probably later in February.


Great & a belated Happy Birthday.


----------



## Guest (Jan 30, 2019)

Thanks Spence. Good to have you back!!!!


----------



## Guest (Jan 31, 2019)

Did a little research this afternoon on the Sante Fe Gold Bonnets and I found that they have been done before in 2-rail O-Gauge by Overland Models. 

Then I learned that Scott Mann was lobbied a couple of years ago to do them as well, but this project did not come to fruition. I think he was in the midst of doing the GE PA demonstrators with the orange paint scheme. 

Fortunately for those of us who love all things Sante Fe Warbonnet, we have choices this time around. I think the MTH version with the plating is going to look really cool on our layout. All those City lights will have something to reflect against.

Here's the Overland model.

View attachment 483228


----------



## Guest (Jan 31, 2019)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Did a little research this afternoon on the Sante Fe Gold Bonnets and I found that they have been done before in 2-rail O-Gauge by Overland Models.
> 
> Then I learned that Scott Mann was lobbied a couple of years ago to do them as well, but this project did not come to fruition. I think he was in the midst of doing the GE PA demonstrators with the orange paint scheme.
> 
> ...


Hi Brian. I had a conversation with Pat from Patrick's Trains a few months back and he mentioned the SF Gold Bonnet train as a special run for his store. He couldn't find decent pictures of the engine or the cars so I made my eyes square looking for some. I ended up finding some that showed the PA really well dug up some info regarding the passenger cars and the color of their trucks and sent the info to him. I didn't hear anymore about it and lo and behold here is the bonus of GB's from MTH and LIONEL. Does it get any better? They sure do look sweet! Dare I even consider this one.


All the Best,


Gary.


----------



## Guest (Jan 31, 2019)

Gary, by all means. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## towdog (Oct 2, 2015)

MTH has posted a picture of the engine: https://www.mthtrains.com/20-21154-1


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes, and their website says they have arrived, so I should be getting mine from pat's Trains any day now. Yippeee!!!


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Here's the JPEG file you can download from the MTH product webpage (resized slightly for the forum)...









This appears to be the actual O-Gauge model on MTH ScaleTrax. Definitely a unique model, and very, very S-W-E-E-T. Some days I really wonder about MTH and Lionel. I can think of a few times that both companies have announced and/or delivered identical products. In this case, MTH is delivering their product in somewhat of a stealth, surprise fashion before Lionel has even gotten a chance to tally its pre-orders of the company's identical product in their latest catalog. 

I have a feeling we'll see a similar thing happen with the George Bush 4141 locomotives this Spring. Lionel has talked about what they'll be announcing... but they haven't provided detailed SKU's yet. Just sayin'....

David


----------



## Guest (Feb 10, 2019)

*"I can think of a few times that both companies have announced and/or delivered identical products. In this case, MTH is delivering their product in somewhat of a stealth, surprise fashion before Lionel has even gotten a chance to tally its pre-orders of the company's identical product in their latest catalog." *

Very interesting point, David. Reminds me of the ole chicken or the egg theory. Appears to be very interesting that a very unique and not often known engine with matching passenger cars would out-of-the-blue be offered by both MTH and Lionel. Just a coincidence? I bet there is a story behind this. 

Add to this that MTH has delivered their Gold Warbonnet engines this month while as David has mentioned, the other guys are now just taking orders. If there is a one-upmanship, then MTH has already won this award hands down.


----------



## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

As I stated before Anticipation....:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm always impossible to please. I really wish they made B units. I'll have the AA pair, but still . . .


----------



## Guest (Feb 10, 2019)

Lee, my guess is Pat will get a matching B unit done, particularly if we all lobby him to do it. This would be perfect.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Lee, my guess is Pat will get a matching B unit done, particularly if we all lobby him to do it. This would be perfect.


I'd be in for a B-unit (or two if non-powered)! 

David


----------



## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Count me in for a B unit.:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Lee Willis said:


> I'm always impossible to please. I really wish they made B units. I'll have the AA pair, but still . . .


So, what are you guys doing for the second A unit, buying another #53, or is there a separate numbered A unit available?


----------



## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Craignor said:


> So, what are you guys doing for the second A unit, buying another #53, or is there a separate numbered A unit available?


I just told Pat I wanted two. I assumed it was two #53s, but if they have different #s, all the better.


----------



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Craignor said:


> So, what are you guys doing for the second A unit, buying another #53, or is there a separate numbered A unit available?


Craig, at this point there is only the one powered A-unit and 4 cars -- with the cars due this Summer. I believe that's the original prototype configuration of this train. So at this time, there's no second powered A-unit, non-powered A-unit or any kind of B-unit right -- at least as far as I know.

If you want two A-units, you'll need to order two A's with the same SKU. And then play a few tricks so DCS behaves right -- at least that's been my experience when trying to double-head 2 identical SKU's in MTH Land. Lionel's Legacy handles this situation much better IMHO.

David


----------



## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanks Lee, and David.


----------



## Patstrains (Jun 13, 2015)

*The MTH Gold Bonnets are here.*



Lee Willis said:


> For those who saw the Gold Bonnet Alcos in the Lionel catalog, and thought maybe they might look good on the layout, but weren't sure about pre-ordering . . .
> 
> Keep in mind that MTH is making a limited (very) run of Premier Goldbonnet Alcos and the four-car train, too. Many of them are already pre-ordered, though. Brian and I and others already have ours reserved.
> 
> Pat's Trains has some still available. I don't know who else will. Very little info is availalble on MTH's website but Pat has info.


Just a FYI on the Gold Bonnets. Only 75 a-units were produced and our store purchased 45 of these. Please note it was my inspiration that made these possible. I want to thank you guys for buying a large chunk of these from us. MTH is now sold out so do not wait too long or you will miss them. Please note we are also taking orders on the plated passenger cars to match.
Thanks
Pat
WWW.Patstrains.com


----------

