# 1918 Lionel NYC 150 Rebuild



## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi folks!

I have a really nice 1918 era Lionel 150 NYC w/ pullmans and caboose. There are chips and stuff on the tin, but in this case I am not going to do a full blown restore. The NYC and 150 gold lettering is still very good. Anyway, I removed the brush plate, cleaned the stator face and polished, sprayed a generous amount of Radio Shack tuner spray on the windings and rest of internals and also cleaned and polished the brushes (great shape for this old). Reassembled, oiled and tested on track. Engine runs around track like crazy! Super fast and smooth. Only issue is sparking from the contact of the front roller. Both rollers look pretty good, I did clean them really good. Still front one sparks pretty bad going around track. Do not know if this is common for these older models or if anyone on the forum has some ideas? 

Thanks

66chawger


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have a 152 which is a similar loco from the '20s. It is not unusual for the rollers to spark on all the locos.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I'd make sure that your track center rail is as clean as possible. You could also fiddle (gently) with the springplate tension on the roller mount ... make sure that this flexes to provide moderate "push" of the roller to the rail ... enough to allow the roller to roll, but not so much that it's inducing too much friction. Also, is the roller surface itself reasonably smooth/polished, without wear grooves?

Hey, post some pics ... we'd all love to see an 1918 goodies!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Welcome to MTF! 
and am looking forward to some before and after pictures. 


Track spark is common and now you can do a tag search. The second thread has a good explanation by Reckers.

The key is to clean the tires and run them. It is alsoa reason not to do this on a good rug.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A thing that I've done on rollers to aid conductivity is to treat the axles with DeoxIT D5, it really helps with conductivity. I had a locomotive (actually several) that the rollers would get uncomfortably hot in operation. After a treatment with DeoxIT D5, no more problem. I most recently used it on a KW Transformer on the handle, before the treatment it was dropping about .7 volts under load, after the treatment, I couldn't measure any voltage drop across the handle.


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks for the info guys. TJ, That is a good comment about the tension of the rollers to the track. Yes, these older ones are harder to work on because everything is press rivited. It is possible that the rollers are not true (flat).. my thinking is the Fastrack that has the flat top rails, not rounded and I bet this old guy was run on the old track in its hey day which would could have worn a "U" pattern in the rollers. 

If I want to replace the rollers, I have to drill out the pressed rivets... where do I get new rollers and how new "press rivets"... don't know what to call them.

Will take a picture the engine and cars tonight. It is the maroon color. No "e" unit.. just full speed ahead.. LOL. Really was amazed though how good of shape the internals were... except for the wiring... the insulation is breaking off. On these older ones the wires come straight from the coil. How would you fix the wires going to the rollers in this case? Used insulated single strand copper wire. I assume same as the winding.


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> A thing that I've done on rollers to aid conductivity is to treat the axles with DeoxIT D5, it really helps with conductivity. I had a locomotive (actually several) that the rollers would get uncomfortably hot in operation. After a treatment with DeoxIT D5, no more problem. I most recently used it on a KW Transformer on the handle, before the treatment it was dropping about .7 volts under load, after the treatment, I couldn't measure any voltage drop across the handle.


John, is DeoxIT D5 a lubricant/electrical lubricant??? Where can u purchase? Do you apply with a Q-tip, rub on like a stain? THANKS!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Easy to fix the wiring is to unsolder one end of the wire and put shrink tubing on it. This is what I do with the old locos I have. The wire from the pickup is very hard to replace, and I am not about to remove the wheels to get at it. The shrink tubing will last forever.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I got mine at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/DeOxit-Cleaning-Solution-Spray-spray/dp/B0002BBV4G


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

The old Shackeroo has it.

They ain't cheap, but they are handy.

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=deoxit&origkw=DeoxIT&sr=1


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The hard part with rollers is inserting the board beween the frames and not breaking it. A complete roller part runs 12 bucks. I wouldn't suggrst it unless one is missing. See the 259e threads, I did install one. Even on removal I could not save a board with out getting a broken tab.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

That is why I recommend using shrink tubing to insulate the wire to the pickups. The early locos have die cast zinc wheels, and trying to remove them might result in a pile of broken parts. Besides, the shrink tubing is quick and easy. Like you say, don't remove the pickup assembly unless it is damaged. Ditto with replacing the rollers. I have some locos with a lot of wear on the rollers, and they still work just fine.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I agree with attempt to cover pickup wire with heat-shrink, rather than any attempt to pull the pickup board. I've done that, but it "ain't" easy. And you'd have to remove the wheels from the loco ... a no-no if they're on there tight to begin with.

In contrast to the recommendation above, new rollers, rivets, etc. can be purchased through Jeff Kane at the Train Tender ... www.ttender.com .

Here's a nice example (with photos) on an old pickup roller (and spring plate) replacement ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9922

Back to the pickup wire ... Another option ...

It is possible to use a soldering iron to melt the solder holding the original wire from the little "rivet hole" in the pickup plate. Remove the old wire, and make sure that the hole is open. Then, carefully insert a new wire with a bared, bent end though the motor casing, and fish the end out through the hole. Bend that over, and solder in place. It takes some finese and fingering, but it is posslbe ... I've done it with good success.

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

TJ, I just looked at my 152. The rivet appears to be under a name plate which is riveted on and could not be removed without taking out the entire pickup assembly. I am going to stick to the shrink tubing.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Granted, I've done my wire swap on plates with shoes, not rollers, so the rivet hole layout is likely different.

That said, could one use a rivet hole that holds the nameplate? I'm thinking like the one shown in this photo. It's all "grounded" to the same copper plate.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14525&d=1326915824

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't know. I never tried it. I don't know how accessible those rivets are. I would have to take the shell off of my 152 to find out. Shrink tubing


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks guys, appreciate all the info. I am a bit embarrassed that I did not think of using shrink wrap tubing!!!! The worst wire is the headlight wire. Just handling the unit while cleaning made most all the insulation crumble off. But then again, this is an old fellow  Just makes me wonder or imagine who played with this back in the day! I mean I like restoring, but any that can be saved and used w/ "played with" look is classic.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can also pull the insulation off the right sized wire and slide it on. Sometimes, the heat-shrink is a bit too stiff for the purpose.


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

Man... even another good idea! Yeah, using some new wire insulation casing will be perfect! I can even use white to make it look authentic....

Super cool, I will do that tonight and also see how well that front roller is adjusted tension wise. Will also get some of the stuff mentioned previously to rub on the rollers. Hopefully have some pictures of it for you all tonight.

I am telling you guys, this thing runs like a freight train!! I mean it is what, 80+ years old? Always get a kick out of watching the engines go around the track w/o the body.


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

*NYC 150 Pics*

Ok, here are a couple pics of my 150. The engine shell is just sitting on the truck, that is why it looks higher in the front  The shape of the units really are better than the pics, just the paint is chipped and such. I just can't bring myself to restore this one...maybe later. Second pic is of the truck and motor by itself... very clean now... but you can see in this picture the deterioration of the insulating wire for the headlight. I have since fixed this using Johns suggestion using new white insulation from some extra wire I had lying around. 

TJ, I did look closer at the rollers and they are definitely worn, have the "u" groove from the rounded three rail track. I will check that link above for new rollers


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

I love seeing the older stuff come back to life. They look great in "played with" condition.


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks! I came real close to stripping the tin and doing a complete resto, but they are not dented and rusted, the trucks and wheels are in great shape, so it is more nostalgic to me. I still crack up how fast the 150 is!!! I have to really watch the speed. Sorry I did not get the caboose in the picture.... well I call it a caboose, it might be an observation car


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

66chawger said:


> ... the trucks and wheels are in great shape, so it is more nostalgic to me.


Boy, I'll say ... the drive wheels on the loco and the motor frame itself look to be in excellent condition for their age. That's a real piece of history you have there!

As for roller replacement, I've never tried that myself. Is the roller rivetted on to the springplate? Is roller swapout easy?

Cheers,

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The groove in the roller will not interfere with the operation of the roller. I have a few locos with really deep grooves, and they work just fine.


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

I am going to try the deox on the rollers first. I really don't want to drill out the rivets and replace the roller plate as it is in good shape. I just want to get them from sparking so much.

TJ, I contacted Jeff Kane. He sent me pictures of the replacement rollers and plate... I would still be able t use the original Lionel name plate, so this is definitely an option. Question I have is when you are putting the replacement roller plate on, how do you install the rivets? Are the pressed or just use a rivet gun??? 

Also, where can I get the threaded lightbulb for my 150? I will contact Jeff, he might have that also.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

66,

I think the rivets are pressed (no gun). I've never done the rivets, but see the 2nd link in Post #13, above. You'll see an example / discussion there.

However ...

Are you really sure you want to replace the full pickup plate? That's going to be very tricky to do, without removing the wheels first. If your rationale in considering this is simply because the rollers have a bit of a V-groove in them, you have a tough road ahead. Instead, I'd seriously consider using the rollers as-is.

Jeff has bulbs. I'm not sure if a 150 takes anything special. Sometimes I buy 14 or 18V threaded bulbs from Jeff. Other times, I simply pick up a pair from Radio Shack like this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103783&numProdsPerPage=60

Regards,

TJ


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## trenes115 (Dec 9, 2011)

I was able to remove the roller from my 262E's broken collector by bending the sides of the bracket a bit.







The roller on this style of prewar collector (from The Train Tender) works the same way so it may also be the same on your 150. Replacing just the roller would be so much simpler than replacing the entire collector as I had to do on the 262E. I just tried a roller from the new collector in the old one and it fits.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh!

Great photos / description above. First time I've seen that in detail. Looks like roller replacement would be rather easy, then, with just some gentle bends of the holder arms.

Did you try putting the roller back? Sometimes, one needs to "overbend" metal a bit to get it to sit in the right position. With the re-installed roller in place, I wonder if one can flex the arms in enough to bend them to a good (standing) position?

Thanks for the informative post,

TJ

===

For future Search hits:

Lionel roller replacement
Lionel roller removal


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TJ, do you know that you can add tags to the thread? I added the two that you put in the message as an example.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, John ...

I did know that, but I've been lazy in the Tags department. No excuse, really.

What I did NOT know was that any member could add/edit tags on a thread. I thought my tool (at bottom of posts page) was a Mod-only thing. Is that where you see it on your end? A "Tags" long,short window with "Edit Tags" clicker?

TJ


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## trenes115 (Dec 9, 2011)

I put both rollers back. Didn't have to bend things far enough to cause problems. 



tjcruiser said:


> Oh!
> Did you try putting the roller back? Sometimes, one needs to "overbend" metal a bit to get it to sit in the right position. With the re-installed roller in place, I wonder if one can flex the arms in enough to bend them to a good (standing) position?
> 
> TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Not all of the rollers are like the ones in the pictures. Some of them are riveted in place.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Trenes -- thanks.

Bruce -- got it ... thanks. Is there a nominal era or loco type (elec/steam) where the roller mount flipped from arm-bend over to rivet?

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I checked a few locos that I have unpacked, and they are all riveted, even my 152 which is ca. 1925. If you look at the pickup roller assembly in the pictures, you can see a problem that can occur if someone does not lube the rollers. The roller axle wears, and the holes in the arms that hold the rollers also wear. Not a good thing, as if there is enough wear, the entire assembly will need to be replaced. I always lube the rollers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks, John ...
> 
> I did know that, but I've been lazy in the Tags department. No excuse, really.
> 
> ...


Here's what I see. Note that a user can only add a maximum of two tags to a thread, don't know about mods, but probably unlimited.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, John ... my menu bar looks exactly the same, except that when I click Edit Tags, it looks like I can add up to 22 tags on a thread.

Still learning all this stuff!


Bruce -- thanks for the roller info. I looked on my end ... only two of my prewar locos have rollers (238, 259). Each has the "arm" roller mount (without rivets), like the photos above. (The rest of my prewar locos have pickup shoes ... no rollers.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## 66chawger (Feb 2, 2012)

tjcruiser said:


> 66,
> 
> I think the rivets are pressed (no gun). I've never done the rivets, but see the 2nd link in Post #13, above. You'll see an example / discussion there.
> 
> ...


TJ,

No, I really don't want to replace the entire roller assembly... just the rollers. The roller plate is the original and it is in great shape... same with the Lionel tag. It is not like I am going to be running this one all the time. As I said before, I am going to try some of the deox mentioned previously... then go from there... 

I want to disturb the the motor assembly as little as possible.


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