# MTH never again



## mopman64 (Mar 23, 2014)

My son and I purchased an MTH set in Feb 2014. He had it for a month and the engine started to spin wheels and not move. We took it over to a friend of mine (an older gentleman) that is a Lionel collector and does his own repairs and he showed me that the gear was striped. It is a large gear with a smaller gear all in one, it's the smaller gear that is striped. We ordered a part from Hennings thinking it would fit and its the wrong type even though its made for a Lionel 254. Now my son had an engine that he loves that is sitting idle. My MTH dealer does not carry any tinplate parts and I don't know what to do. 

The part we ordered is to big in the center and this is what it looks like: http://store03.prostores.com/servlet/henningstrains/the-2138/Prewar-O-idler-gear/Detail

Here is the MTH set we purchased: http://mthtrains.com/content/11-5506-0

Any ideas?


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

The local dealer that sold me my MTH HO set in Nov 13 has had it for repair for the past month. He's "thinking of what he needs to do" to resolve the problem. The State Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division told me the steps to take to get a refund. I'm not quick to call something junk, but I agree that MTH is a brand to be avoided. They have a fantastic building and an impressive showroom, but I'll never buy anything MTH again. The set that I purchased was supposed to include a lighted caboose. It states this in their 2012, 2013 and in the new 2014 HO catalog. A call to the MTH Sales Department revealed that MTH never supplied the value-added lighting in the caboose. Maybe the print in the 2012 catalog was a typo or error, but not changing the description in the next two years is downright lying, and a dishonest and desperate way to generate sales. Anyone can check this out, and then decide on what kind of company MTH really is... I second your "never again".


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

I would suggest you call MTH direct and see what they can do for you. My 256 went in to them 7 months ago and I just got it back this last week. It was repaired and running when I talked to the tech and he mentioned that they had to install new gears that were wider so they would not strip. They did but the tech did not put the screw back in that holds the PS boards together and there are some paint chips there now that were not. I am upset but happy to at least have my 256 back. I wish you good luck. The MTH tinplate stuff is great when it runs but it is a shame that they are the only player in town.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

kix662003 said:


> The local dealer that sold me my MTH HO set in Nov 13 has had it for repair for the past month. He's "thinking of what he needs to do" to resolve the problem. The State Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division told me the steps to take to get a refund. I'm not quick to call something junk, but I agree that MTH is a brand to be avoided. They have a fantastic building and an impressive showroom, but I'll never buy anything MTH again. The set that I purchased was supposed to include a lighted caboose. It states this in their 2012, 2013 and in the new 2014 HO catalog. A call to the MTH Sales Department revealed that MTH never supplied the value-added lighting in the caboose. Maybe the print in the 2012 catalog was a typo or error, but not changing the description in the next two years is downright lying, and a dishonest and desperate way to generate sales. Anyone can check this out, and then decide on what kind of company MTH really is... I second your "never again".


 I'm pretty dissappointed with them too after having bought 2 new ps3 4-8-4's since Dec. and don't even have 1 now since it's still in Columbia for warranty for the 2nd time, and the first one burnt out in about 3 days but was exchanged for the current one. I've been thinking about a ps3 Diesel but I'm even afraid to do it now. You shouldn't have to worry about something lasting for more than a week or 2 buying something brand new and especially for as much as these things cost. I was thinking about getting the DCS system but settled for the new Lionel Cab-1 Base 1-L Command set instead. I just bought it this weekend at a train show new from a dealer in New Jersey. Really I won't be supprised if there's problems with it too. It doesn't have all the features of the more upscale systems but as far as I look at it, what good are those features on an engine that won't run anyhow that I'm afraid to buy because of their lousy reliability. There aren't going to be any more new $400 and up engines for me. I actualy feel safer with an earlier one from Ebay which I just did 2 weeks ago and am very happy with it.


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## mopman64 (Mar 23, 2014)

*Well glad to see it's just not me.*

Well, my older friend is taking it to the York train show in April, he says that MTH reps will be there.

He also said if anyplace to get the part it will be at York. 

I tried to tell my son, not to buy MTH, it looks good but that's about it. So now he has a really nice looking engine for his shelf. 

Funny thing is, he purchased a 1668E at a train show for 60.00 it had some problems and my buddy repaired it in no time and now it works great.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can buy gears of almost any type from Stockdrive. http://www.sdp-si.com/

A gear like you need could be easily made by soldering two brass gears together.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Personally, I think the effort of making your own gears is going to be significant, that should be a last resort.

While MTH is at York every time, this kind of problem is not likely to be easily resolved at the meet. They also have parts there, but only common parts, not specialty parts like these gears.

As far as the gears you bought at Henning's, you bought Lionel gears for an MTH locomotive. While they have licensed stuff from Lionel for these, there are unique parts in them in many cases. It's best to get these directly from MTH.

I believe there are replacement gears that are wider for many of these, when I was at MTH in the fall, I saw a couple STD Gauge locomotives with similar issues, the fix was wider gears.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

why didn't you just call MTH ? and get the correct part ? Midge, in MTH part dept. has always been friendly to me, even at times when I have been frustrated ,she sends me the right part every time.
I can't help feeling sorry for all of you that has, or had trouble with MTH trains. ...........Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mike, one of the things I really miss about no longer dealing with Midge is her dedication to the job and how well she does it. Dealers and tech have a different person handling parts.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

mopman64 said:


> Well, my older friend is taking it to the York train show in April, he says that MTH reps will be there.
> 
> He also said if anyplace to get the part it will be at York.
> 
> ...


 When and exactly where is that train show? If I'm not back to work by then we might go up to it. I'd like to talk to the MTH reps myself but I'm sure they are going to be extremely busy dealing with problems from the junk their company is now making. Those guys should be paid pretty good to have to face all the irate people they are likely to see.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Read all about it: TCA York April 2014


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

I believe that John is correct. Rich Foster is present at the larger shows. He's one of the MTH VPs. He's a real nice guy and says all the right things, but when he gets back to the office, he simply turns everything over to Jeff Strank, VP of service, who doesn't like to deal directly with MTH owners. He did call me once after I wrote a letter to Mike Wolfe expressing my disappointment and frustrations with his company. When Jeff called, he was riding his high horse, and told me that there is only a 10 day turnaround on repairs, and I was making a big issue over nothing. I spent $70+ in gas and tolls to make the trip. Jeff was there, but couldn't be bothered to come out and meet me. The techs were nice enough, but they can only work with what's on the shelf. My repaired loco failed in a few weeks. I've called for Rich and Jeff many times since, leaving requests for a call back after their staff told me that they were in their office, to never receive a call. The Attorney General at the MD Consumer Protection office and his staff take my calls, however, and call me back. The dealer that sold me the defective set has offered to refund the full amount. Ever check MTH the BBB website? That may be enlightening. Even though I was able to resolve my complaint, I think you'd do well to take a legal approach. Responding to consumer complaints is a pain but it may be the only way to get a "real" fix. You're just going to get to "Meet Mr. MTH' at the show.


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## carinofranco (Aug 1, 2012)

kix662003 said:


> I believe that John is correct. Rich Foster is present at the larger shows. He's one of the MTH VPs. He's a real nice guy and says all the right things, but when he gets back to the office, he simply turns everything over to Jeff Strank, VP of service, who doesn't like to deal directly with MTH owners. He did call me once after I wrote a letter to Mike Wolfe expressing my disappointment and frustrations with his company. When Jeff called, he was riding his high horse, and told me that there is only a 10 day turnaround on repairs, and I was making a big issue over nothing. I spent $70+ in gas and tolls to make the trip. Jeff was there, but couldn't be bothered to come out and meet me. The techs were nice enough, but they can only work with what's on the shelf. My repaired loco failed in a few weeks. I've called for Rich and Jeff many times since, leaving requests for a call back after their staff told me that they were in their office, to never receive a call. The Attorney General at the MD Consumer Protection office and his staff take my calls, however, and call me back. The dealer that sold me the defective set doesn't even want to call MTH! Ever check MTH the BBB website? That may be enlightening. Even though I haven't resolve my complaint, I think you'd do well to take a legal approach. Responding to consumer complaints is a pain but it may be the only way to get a "real" fix. You're just going to get to "Meet Mr. MTH' at the show.


On the BBB thing. I have been having lots of trouble with tv and Time Warner Cable for months...lots of calls, lots of tech visits to my house all with no solution. I finally filed a complaint with the local BBB. I got a callback from the TWC head of Cust Sevice within 2 days. The problem was finally found and solved (interference from a neighbor's ham radio transmissions). they gave me a 3 month refund and lowered my monthly bill by $50. Try it!


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## kix662003 (Mar 8, 2013)

Thanks for sharing, carinofranco. Good to know.


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## trainman2000 (Apr 13, 2012)

Maybe you can try the NorthWest Short Line and see if they can help you. Here is there site.

http://www.nwsl.com/


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## old464 (Oct 12, 2011)

Rabbitman said:


> I'm pretty dissappointed with them too after having bought 2 new ps3 4-8-4's since Dec. and don't even have 1 now since it's still in Columbia for warranty for the 2nd time, and the first one burnt out in about 3 days but was exchanged for the current one. I've been thinking about a ps3 Diesel but I'm even afraid to do it now. You shouldn't have to worry about something lasting for more than a week or 2 buying something brand new and especially for as much as these things cost. I was thinking about getting the DCS system but settled for the new Lionel Cab-1 Base 1-L Command set instead. I just bought it this weekend at a train show new from a dealer in New Jersey. Really I won't be supprised if there's problems with it too. It doesn't have all the features of the more upscale systems but as far as I look at it, what good are those features on an engine that won't run anyhow that I'm afraid to buy because of their lousy reliability. There aren't going to be any more new $400 and up engines for me. I actualy feel safer with an earlier one from Ebay which I just did 2 weeks ago and am very happy with it.


guys reason Istick with used ps2 engines is that the owners are just ridding them not for problems, but to change out and thats what I buy. I never get new stuff. I get the run tested stuff and never had one issue with an MTH engine I bought


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## trainman2000 (Apr 13, 2012)

Can't understand they make expensive trains and yet they have so many problems I guess when it's made in China what can you expect.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're only hearing about the problems, plenty of people that aren't posting here are having no issues.


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## trainman2000 (Apr 13, 2012)

That is true but I also read on the OGR Forum how many people have complained about the New R142 cars with the headlights. Even when Lionel came out with the R16 subway trains the windows were all popping out. It was a big problem with those cars I bought a set and it happened to me so I returned them and received a refund. If you are going to spend almost $700 for a set the least they can do is make sure they are properly made with no defects. Even when MTH came out with the R40 subway cars the vents on the roof were coming up and not sealed properly.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You're only hearing about the problems, plenty of people that aren't posting here are having no issues.



And plenty are not posting either way, 
I got one MTH locomotive..........it doesn't work.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

trainman2000 said:


> If you are going to spend almost $700 for a set the least can do is make sure they are properly made with no defects. Even when MTH came out with the R40 subway cars the vents on the roof were coming up and not sealed properly.


While that would be the ideal world, it's not reality. Anytime there is human interaction during the assembly process, that includes inspection, there will be flaws. It doesn't matter what we're referring to either, computer software, TV's, cars, trains what have you. Take a look at the numbers of cars recalled over the past few years, you spend significantly more on that, and yet from time to time things happen.

Carl


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I've got three HO MTH locos, A PA/PB set with digitrax chips, no problems what so ever.
The third, a PA with MTH sound had to go back to have the memories replace, It forgot what it was :dunno:. Took 6 or 7 weeks to get it back and I haven't had the courage to put it back on the layout yet. Mechanically it run perfect. 

Magic


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

Kwikster said:


> While that would be the ideal world, it's not reality. Anytime there is human interaction during the assembly process, that includes inspection, there will be flaws. It doesn't matter what we're referring to either, computer software, TV's, cars, trains what have you. Take a look at the numbers of cars recalled over the past few years, you spend significantly more on that, and yet from time to time things happen.
> 
> Carl


 
though I agree somewhat with the human factor, I strongly feel that these types of problems could , and should be avoided at the factory level, and don't say they can't , because I know they can.
good Q.C. people is all that's needed, and a lot less GREED , problem is these days is the big dogs care way more about quantity, than quality , so here we are ........Mike


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

Big Mike said:


> though I agree somewhat with the human factor, I strongly feel that these types of problems could , and should be avoided at the factory level, and don't say they can't , because I know they can.
> good Q.C. people is all that's needed, and a lot less GREED , problem is these days is the big dogs care way more about quantity, than quality , so here we are ........Mike


 AHMEN I couldn't have said it better!


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Couldn't agree more, Out of 6 Athearn Genesis GP9 locos I've got two are on the work bench as I type and there isn't much run time on any of them. They look pretty but not much good if they don't go. For the kind of money you spend on Genesis you'd think they would at least go around the layout more than a hand full of times. 

I got a Bachmann F-7 A&B, run perfectly right out of the box and will out pull two Genesis at half the cost. 

I got the Bachmanns to see if the problem was my track or the locos, Question answered and the more I run them the more I like them. 

Magic


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## mopman64 (Mar 23, 2014)

*Update*

So my buddy went to York train show and spoke to Mike Wolfe himself and I was told that even though the set is still being produced and is in the MTH Lionel 2014 tinplate catalog that they have no parts for it here in the USA and that if they ever do bring parts here it will be a year or more. 

I was also told that Mr. Wolfe told my buddy that they are not in business to make replacement parts but to sell new items.

So in another words, screw you and tough luck. So now my son has a 450 piece of junk.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've talked to Mike Wolfe, and it's very hard to imagine that kind of response from him, or from any other MTH representative.


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## Rabbitman (Jan 24, 2014)

mopman64 said:


> So my buddy went to York train show and spoke to Mike Wolfe himself and I was told that even though the set is still being produced and is in the MTH Lionel 2014 tinplate catalog that they have no parts for it here in the USA and that if they ever do bring parts here it will be a year or more.
> 
> I was also told that Mr. Wolfe to my buddy that they are not in business to make replacement parts but to sell new items.
> 
> So in another words, screw you and tough luck. So now my son has a 450 piece of junk.


 It makes you wonder how they expect to stay in business with the way they are doing things now and actually admit it on top of it


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## mopman64 (Mar 23, 2014)

*Well*

Well gunrunnerjohn, it is what it is. Maybe he was having a bad day. I don't know I was not there, but when my buddy tells me that's what the man said I have no reason to doubt the man. 

And by the lack of help that I have received in this matter from MTH, it would not surprise me at all.

If your an MTH cert tech, why don't you offer to help me out a little and put some faith back in the MTH name rather then doubt what was said.


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## captaincog (Oct 7, 2012)

mopman64 said:


> Well gunrunnerjohn, it is what it is. Maybe he was having a bad day. I don't know I was not there, but when my buddy tells me that's what the man said I have no reason to doubt the man.
> 
> And by the lack of help that I have received in this matter from MTH, it would not surprise me at all.
> 
> If your an MTH cert tech, why don't you offer to help me out a little and put some faith back in the MTH name rather then doubt what was said.


I am sorry to hear of what happened to you and your son. I certainly hope that you can get it resolved. I would strongly suggest writing a certified letter to Mike Wolfe and see what response that you receive. If that goes nowhere then file a Better Business Bureau complaint in the state that MTH calls home. If I had access to the parts I would help out but I do not and the techs that I know do mainly postwar Lionel only and some prewar. One thinks that product support and repairs would keep your products working and those satisfied customers would then buy additional new product. Apparently my business model is not what theirs is?
Good luck!


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## stevetil (Sep 6, 2011)

Oh boy, I do enjoy my MTH cars.
And I am Sooo glad I never bought an MTH engine!
The cars seem well made and follow my Lionel engines just fine.
Course I like the Lionel cars better.
But at least the MTH ones haven't given me any trouble.
Yet.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Mopman64, I understand the frustration. I don't have any Mth stuff nor plan on buying any. So I'm assuming you tried to go through Mth for the part and they don't make it? 
As for gunrunnerjohn, he helps out a lot of people here. With everything. I belive being a certified technician means he spent his own money and time to learn how to fix Mth stuff. It doesn't affiliate him with the company in any other way. Only that he is qualified to fix it. He did state that the part was most likely unavailable at york. 
Did you contact Mth directly to see if you could get the part? 
I do have apathy for your situation, and yes, I do belive they should have parts avaliable. But as this is a niche hobby and I really don't see it as mainstream anymore. These problems will only get worse for all vendors. Good luck, how old is the set, can you return it. Complain to the company until they refund your money.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

mopman64 said:


> Well gunrunnerjohn, it is what it is. Maybe he was having a bad day. I don't know I was not there, but when my buddy tells me that's what the man said I have no reason to doubt the man.
> 
> And by the lack of help that I have received in this matter from MTH, it would not surprise me at all.
> 
> If your an MTH cert tech, why don't you offer to help me out a little and put some faith back in the MTH name rather then doubt what was said.


I don't put a lot of stock in 3rd hand stories about what has been said. The reason I don't believe that is it's so completely out of character for Mike, or for anyone in such a position at MTH, that it's pretty tough to swallow they'd actually say something like that.

As far as helping, have you contacted Midge in parts and specifically asked for the parts. If this is under warranty, take it back to the dealer. I've put gears in several std gauge locomotives, there is more than one choice. Some of the std gauge motors are a direct clone of the Lionel product, others are MTH designs.


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