# Anyone recognize this switch?



## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

Hi,

This vintage double pole double throw "contact" switch was in a box of vintage train gear. Personally, I've never seen one before. I'm hoping someone here might recognize it and know what it originally went to. 

I'm not sure if it went to something actually used in the model train industry at the time or maybe it's just a switch sold back in the day or if it came from a tool of the era given it's paint color.

I don't know why but I think it's a pretty cool for a vintage switch given it actually uses contacts or points like they had in cars at one time. And it's completely and easily servicable.. I've taken it apart and polished up all the metal and am about to paint it black. 

I haven't hooked it up yet but I suspect it'll spark when contact is made. At least a little one. It would be cool for some sort of steam punk type thing.

Nor do I know the rating for such a switch.

And note, it's resting on a grey square washer. That's not part of it. It was just to hold it up for the pics.

At any rate, as stated, I'm hoping one of you here is familiar with it and can educate me on it a bit.

Cheers...


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

My guess would be just a switch sold BITD. But way cool. It's probably rated fairly high, and of course, the higher the current run through it increases the arcing that may occur. If it were me, I'd mount it in such a way as to see it, like behind clear plexiglass.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That looks like an old telephone panel switch. Probably a really old telephone panel!


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

That's what I called these switches way back when, GRJ! They were used a lot on Model RR's, I think to operate dual cab DC, or stall motors on turnouts. That particular one is only SPDT.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That looks like an old telephone panel switch. Probably a really old telephone panel!


As an OLD telephone man I agree with John. Most of the old switchboards had this type of switch on them.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I doubt it would be American telephone switch. Almost ALL telephone switch & parts would have “Western Electric” markings, from the days of A.T.T. & Ma Bell. Retired in 2010 after 41 years from Ma Bell-Verizon.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

i think its a type of leaf switch and supplier


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

teledoc said:


> I doubt it would be American telephone switch. Almost ALL telephone switch & parts would have “Western Electric” markings, from the days of A.T.T. & Ma Bell. Retired in 2010 after 41 years from Ma Bell-Verizon.


I too am a retired telephone man. Started with Ma Bell at Pacific T&T in 1964 and then went into the rural independent telcos. It wasn't just Western Electric that manufactured telephone equipment. Many companies used Stromberg Carlson from Rochester NY.. Others used Northern Tel (Canada) also.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

I'm sorry I don't remember the name, but there is a "thing" ham radio operators use that pushing the knob one way sends a "dot" and pushing the other way sends a "dash". Maybe Western Union had something similar 

*Update:* What I was thinking of is called a "single paddle keyer".


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

Stan D said:


> If it were me, I'd mount it in such a way as to see it, like behind clear plexiglass.


My thoughts exactly! Lol.
Over the past couple days I've been looking to see if I had a clear box to use. 

Curious, it looks like there are two mounting holes in the side. 

As well as the two screws in the top. Which I take it, the top plate was as thick as the rest of it. Those two screws are bottomed out as you see it. 

Anyways thanks for the responses all
Cheers...


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

gregc said:


> i think its a type of leaf switch and supplier


Nice!
At least I know what type of switch it is. 

Thank you GregC!


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

You mean "selenium". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium_rectifier


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

GNfan said:


> You mean "selenium". <img src="http://www.modeltrainforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium_rectifier


Yup! Thanks for the correction!

Interesting to see some this stuff. The modeler did a nice job soldering and wiring that much I can tell. He had it all drawn up.. like a graphic engineer would.

Most of the electronics are new to me. Stuff I've never seen the likes of before. No chips.. ! Lol


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

This was the modelers drawing for his layout that was with this vintage stuff. (Track, transformer, the above leaf switch and other electronics, switches, etc)

Thought you guys might be interested in seeing it. Dates back to the 60's and prior from what I can tell.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those were very common in telephone panels when I was a kid.
Telephone Exchange Leaf Switchs










Those switches were used in panels like this in the first half of the 1900's. Note the rows of switches in front of the plugs.


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

Thanks GunrunnerJohn,

When you look at it from the perspective of a 1900's telephone leaf switch I thought it was really cool.

Then I looked up leaf switches an saw since the early 1900's they've been used in a gazillion other things too. Including arcade games. The "Pro" grade joy sticks of even today use them as well as micro switches because they're able to be tweaked.

Which learning that let the air out of the balloon I had around this switch. It's still cool but not as cool as when I thought it was "unique" to the era.

Given the color it's probably off some tool from the 60's. Still old but.. not as unique and different than I thought.

I'm more curious now given his wiring diagram how this modeler was using it in his layout. Along with some other stuff in the box.

I can kinda figure out some of it.. I think. But I'm lost on the rest. Or how it is laid out.

So many transformers.. or I think they're transformers. It's confusing since I'm unfamiliar with how it all worked together in his layout.

I'm learning new stuff though. Which has a cool factor of it's own. So I appreciate it guys.

Thanks!


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

chase said:


> I'm more curious now given his wiring diagram how this modeler was using it in his layout.


the switch in the diagram seems to be a DPDT switch wired as a reversing switch which makes sense since its wired to the reverse tracks.

i don't think the photo shows a DPDT swtich


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

gregc said:


> chase said:
> 
> 
> > I'm more curious now given his wiring diagram how this modeler was using it in his layout.
> ...


I don't know for sure if it is or isn't a DPDT looking around at other leaf switches. 

There were other toggle switches some SPST others DPDT.

I thought (what I now know is a the leaf switch), that two poles on opposite sides. And a throw of On-Off-On made it a DPDT momentary switch.

Maybe it's considered a SPDT..? I don't know I'm kinda confused on the labeling of some of these leaf switches I'm seeing on the net.

Included with in the box that I'm keeping for myself were some 50's/60's era 12v 30amp pull switches. 6 or 7 in total.

They use them in Rat Rod's for light switches I'm told. Bunch of the guys here are into cars so I'm sure they'll want those. 

Various other toggles. And 3 what I'm taking it are variable rheostats with voltage regulators wired into boxes. 4 lead wire going in.

Then these other things which I'm not sure of... See pic. I think they're transformers of some sort. There's 7 of them in front of the Lionel Transformer.

The long screw on top has a wire soldered to it... Odd looking things for transformers. Lol


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

"Then these other things which I'm not sure of... See pic. I think they're transformers of some sort. There's 7 of them in front of the Lionel Transformer."
Stepper motors for turnout control?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

All the contacts on the bottom suggest those are rotary switches, but hard to say from that angle. They could also be rheostats.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> All the contacts on the bottom suggest those are rotary switches, but hard to say from that angle. They could also be rheostats.


John, I think that you may be correct. What are/purpose of the wires on the shaft?


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Well the thing in the upper left is a selenium rectifier, the things in the foreground could be rotary switches or pots with a switch. It appears the wire attached to the shaft was a "poor man's" position indicator, knobs were expensive back then!


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

First off, thanks for the replies guys. 

Here's more pics of those 7 parts.

They do turn. I was turning them the wrong way. But they don't stay in position. More like a momentary switch.
And it's just a 1/16th of a turn maybe. It turns the distance of the two silver pieces next to the shaft on the bottom, see pics. 

So you where right. Those wires were probably position indicators. Damn your good!!! 😉

And if you can't make out the stamps:
One says
Price Bros. followed by either CA. Or GA.
Type
76-3

Other stamp is:
28 VDC

So what do you think they are?

Edit: And sorry about the mix up and edits, I had started a new thread before seeing you guys had posted on those 7, what at least I now know are some sort of momentary switches. It made more sense to just keep it going here so I deleted the these and brought it over here...


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

Before I box all this up, here's the final switch I had questions on.

I take it this switch set up is made up with either rotary pot or rheostat and a voltage regulator...? 

There's 3 in total. All built the same. But what I think is a voltage regulator may or may not be the same rating as they look different. Only one has markings on it and I can't make it all out. Google searching has brought up nothing with what I could make out. 

As well, nothing came up in searches on those other 7 momentary switches above.

Last question and I take it I already know the answer. 

All these switches I take it are pretty much useless in today's layout builds? Even if one where to utilize the Lionel K Transformer?

I take it they could be used.. but are they just too antiquated to bother with.. ie: no sense keeping anymore?

Thanks again for your help on these switches.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

These look like DC voltage regulators with a polarity reversing switch. Since there's no rectifier or filter cap, they clearly are designed to bring DC in and output variable DC.

I can't imagine what you'll use them for, but that appears to be what they are.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Speaking of antiquated, based on what the Wikipedia article says about failure in selenium rectifiers, I wouldn't use it either. If you're really insistent about running DC trains from a Lionel AC transformer; maybe GRJ can point you in the direction of something made from silicon. 

*BTW:* I'd bet money that that one object says "DELCO/GM/I-555". It's something from an auto parts shop.


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> These look like DC voltage regulators with a polarity reversing switch. Since there's no rectifier or filter cap, they clearly are designed to bring DC in and output variable DC.
> 
> I can't imagine what you'll use them for, but that appears to be what they are.


At least I know now what they are. I can't think of a use for them off the bat. More steam punk parts! 




GNfan said:


> Speaking of antiquated, based on what the Wikipedia article says about failure in selenium rectifiers, I wouldn't use it either. If you're really insistent about running DC trains from a Lionel AC transformer; maybe GRJ can point you in the direction of something made from silicon. <img src="http://www.modeltrainforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> *BTW:* I'd bet money that that one object says "DELCO/GM/I-555". It's something from an auto parts shop.


It seems some of the switches are from Auto as well. All seem way over rated for a model train application.. even the toggles.. 25 amp, 30amp and so on.

But those can always come in handy for other things.

I did a search on that Delco GM number.. it didn't pull it up. Not via Google anyway.

Well.. if in the end nobody wants this stuff, maybe I'll just keep the Transformer and turn it into a bench tool or something. ?? Not like I need one though.

But it seems like many don't like the Atlas track either so... Maybe it was all better off just heading to the landfill after all. 

I got some switches out of it and learned some things which was fun. 😉 

Thanks again guys for the knowledge!
Cheers...


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

So they might be rotary relays, at least that looks like a relay coil. Might be that each pulse causes a rotation, they probably rotate in one direction only on each activation.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

chase said:


> Before I box all this up, here's the final switch I had questions on.
> 
> I take it this switch set up is made up with either rotary pot or rheostat and a voltage regulator...?
> 
> ...




Chase;

As far as I can tell, none of the objects in your ten photos one this page are actually "switches."
The first six photos show what I'm guessing is a rotary solenoid. Rotary solenoids were once used to operate turnouts and sometimes semaphores. The solenoid, (if that's what it is) has a multi terminal rotary switch attached to it. That is the only real switch in any of the photos on this page.
Going back to page one of this thread, I see there are several of these solenoids each with a wire attached to the shaft. That is further evidence (at least to me) that these were rotary solenoids used to operate turnouts. I also see several photos of telephone Co. style leaf switches. I had a bunch of those around for years, finally threw them away.

The last few photos are of a transistor throttle. I've built a couple. They are basically a substitute for a DC power pack. An old book titled, "Electronic Projects for Model Railroaders" by Peter J. Thorne, shows how to build several such throttles. The one in your photo looks like the most basic design from that book. Transistor throttles offer better speed control, especially at slow speed, than a traditional DC power pack with a rheostat speed control . Some modern power packs have transistor throttles built into them.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

traction fan said:


> ...
> 
> 
> The first six photos show what I'm guessing is a rotary solenoid. Rotary solenoids were once used to operate turnouts and sometimes semaphores. The solenoid, (if that's what it is) has a multi terminal rotary switch attached to it. That is the only real switch in any of the photos on this page.
> Going back to page one of this thread, I see there are several of these solenoids each with a wire attached to the shaft. That is further evidence (at least to me) that these were rotary solenoids used to operate turnouts.


That certainly is another possibility. GunrunnerJohns thought they might be polarity reversing switches and the wire was an indicator. Both make sense.

I uploaded another pick to show the max they turn. As mentioned it's only an 1/8th or less momentary turn.

So if they are solenoids, they would operate say the manual Atlas #61. And I take it the wire off the threaded shaft hooks up to the manual control on the track.

All seven were wired up at one time. The wires you see attached are from the previous model owner. Wires match the wire spools that came with. 

Only one #61 manual turn out that I counted.

I'm going to have to put some power to them and see. I have an old desktop power supply I can use. 

If they are solenoids.. I might be able to use them for something.



traction fan said:


> The last few photos are of a transistor throttle. I've built a couple. They are basically a substitute for a DC power pack. An old book titled, "Electronic Projects for Model Railroaders" by Peter J. Thorne, shows how to build several such throttles. The one in your photo looks like the most basic design from that book. Transistor throttles offer better speed control, especially at slow speed, than a traditional DC power pack with a rheostat speed control . Some modern power packs have transistor throttles built into them.
> 
> Traction Fan


Yeah, I kinda figured those 3 had something to do with throttle control. 
His wiring diagram shows a power supply. The grey 4 wire going into those 3 boxes are only 22g if that. 

He shows a separate throttle control but only these 3 were in the boxes.

The Lionel type K transformer is AC out not DC out correct? If AC, I don't see how he was powering up this track. Unless that's what the selenium rectifier was for..? Which was soldered in somewhere by the looks of the contacts.


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## chase (Mar 9, 2019)

For those interested.

I just hooked up a 12volt battery to one of those 7 in question going off the wires already connected.

Yup, They're solenoids for sure. Perhaps from a solenoid valve or something...

Noisy little suckers but maybe encased they won't be so much so.

So.. more steam punk parts. I think they're overkill as is much of what I'm finding with the switches with this vintage track. 

I can find micro switches and RC controllers in this day and age to do the same... A lot smaller and certainly quieter and in the range of what's needed.

Amazing what was used though for this train set of yester year.

One can be hard pressed to find the quality I see in some of these switches today without reaching deep into your pocket.

Funny to note... Most of the track was purchased at a "hardware store" that no longer exists. 

Imagine that.. a hardware store that sold model train sets. That's almost an image you get from a Norman Rockwell painting.

Price tag stickers on the turnout boxes.. why they were a whopping $2 and change!

That should bring back some memories for some of you guys...
(1969 price tag)


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## [email protected] (May 31, 2015)

*Seitch*

It is off an old telephone operators switch board. Very common in Telephone years age. Note the solid construction.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That looks like an old telephone panel switch. Probably a really old telephone panel!





[email protected] said:


> It is off an old telephone operators switch board. Very common in Telephone years age. Note the solid construction.


Note the previous comment from a few days ago.


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## raisaacs (Dec 14, 2018)

*Switch*

I would agree it probably from a telco switch board Maybe not AT&T or Stromberg but there were a few others out there..


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