# Ringling Bros whistling billboard - wiring diagram



## chrisallen21 (Sep 1, 2016)

I dug out from my AF collection what I think is the 577 Ringling Bros whistling billboard and want to clean it up. I saw a couple videos out there but couldn't find one that showed the complete disassembly/reassembly instructions. I believe the (yellow) wire is also missing on mine for starters but wanted to hear from others on their experiences and things to watch out for. I have done some rebuilds on my steamers but not a lot. I assume it also connects with a button controller but if any wiring diagrams are available, I would appreciate links to it

Here are a few pics of what I am starting with:








































The slotted brushes also seem to be held in place by the springs which is different than what I am used to with the normal steamer end that keeps them in place. Luckily, I think the slotted brushes appear to not be in bad shape as I don't have any slotted brushes on hand presently


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Three wires leave the 577 billboard. The yellow connects to the 15V Post on the transformer, the Black connects to the transformer Base Post and the green connects to the control button. The other side of the control button connects to the Base Post. The green wire powers the motor. Here are two pictures. I would need to disassemble the billboard to see how the power wiring connects to the field and armature, I cannot do that tonight. Rotation direction is important so that the impeller spins correctly to make the whistle. I will see what I can do tomorrow.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

Slightly off topic. The AF air whistle looks similar to what Lionel used. Wonder how AF got around Joshua Cowen's patent, if I am looking at the AF unit right.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I think they are two different whistles. This thread is about the Gilbert billboard whistles. They used a series wound universal motor and a pushbutton as the on-off actuator. The motor spun an impeller in a vented chamber. The patent issue was with The Gilbert 314AW PRR Pacific that had a similar motor and impeller in the tender. Specifically Gilbert used a controller that applied a DC offset voltacge to the AC track power to actuate a DC relay in the tender. This DC relay functioned as the on-off switch. Lionel felt that actuation arrangement violated a patent they held.


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## chrisallen21 (Sep 1, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> Three wires leave the 577 billboard. The yellow connects to the 15V Post on the transformer, the Black connects to the transformer Base Post and the green connects to the control button. The other side of the control button connects to the Base Post. The green wire powers the motor. Here are two pictures. I would need to disassemble the billboard to see how the power wiring connects to the field and armature, I cannot do that tonight. Rotation direction is important so that the impeller spins correctly to make the whistle. I will see what I can do tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 590212
> View attachment 590213


Thanks for the pics @AmFlyer. Definitely confirms that I am missing the connection of the yellow wire to the left side but that looks to be it. I am just cleaning it up the armature face and will try reassembling over the next few days. 
The billboard cardboard is in pretty rough shape so I might shop around for a reproduction


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

AmFlyer said:


> I think they are two different whistles. This thread is about the Gilbert billboard whistles. They used a series wound universal motor and a pushbutton as the on-off actuator. The motor spun an impeller in a vented chamber. The patent issue was with The Gilbert 314AW PRR Pacific that had a similar motor and impeller in the tender. Specifically Gilbert used a controller that applied a DC offset voltacge to the AC track power to actuate a DC relay in the tender. This DC relay functioned as the on-off switch. Lionel felt that actuation arrangement violated a patent they held.


What I thought I read was that Lionel was the first to come up with the motorized whistle box design. But maybe they didn't and I thought Lionel had. Basically the concept is same, Lionel had motor on top center while AF appears to have motor on one end. Would not matter how the whistle was triggered (relay or pushbutton).


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

There was never any patent infringement concern about the billboard whistles. The patent infringement concern was specific to the 314AW engine. According to collectors who have researched the issue there is no record of Lionel filing a lawsuit against Gilbert over the matter. Gilbert stopped using the design at issue after less than two years of production because it proved to be difficult to maintain and the replacement design was much cheaper to produce. Unfortunately the replacement design sounds no where near as good.
American Flyer under W. O. Coleman's ownership introduced a remote operated tender air whistle in 1935 and the first billboard whistle in 1937. A. C. Gilbert purchased American Flyer from Coleman March of 1938.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Just curious, as I haven't had mine up and running for a while. Does the lights stay automatically on? If they dont now is the time to rewire it. I know mine had constant lights, but I am unsure if I did that or it came that way. The horn billbord is fun also.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Mine looks the same, i am guessing my Ringling brothers one is the one I had on the layout. And that one has the horn. No idea where it is at the moment. Unless I have 3 of them, thats always a possibility also. Lol.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The 577 illuminated billboards have two lights as shown. The yellow wire supplies 15V from the transformer to both the lights and the motor. The black wire connects just the lights to the Base Post on the transformer providing constant illumination without powering the motor. The Green wire is connected to the control button, the other control button terminal is connected to the Base Post. Pushing the button completes the motor circuit back to the Base Post, sounding the whistle.
There were a few 577's made without lights, listed as 577NL. They are not common.


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## chrisallen21 (Sep 1, 2016)

Finally got back to reassembling the billboard using the wiring instructions that @AmFlyer provided and it works! Sound isn't too bad (I have a Diesel whistle billboard that is just awful sounding and I can't ever see me hooking it up; might just be a fixture on the layout with no power). Although I don't normally paint items as I like the 'well played with' look, I might make an exception this time since after all, this is a hobby and it is good sometimes to experiment!

Anyone have any ideas on the white border that surrounds the billboard and the green on the rest of the chassis? I have saw people mention Fusion paints and Krylon in the past but this would be the first time I have tried painting something. 

Any suggestions?


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Port Lines sells the correct paint in spray cans. The white is SKU#05140 and the green is either SKU#05100 or SKU#05110. Call Doug direct and ask which of the two is the correct match for the light green 577 Circus Billboard base.


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## chrisallen21 (Sep 1, 2016)

Also, was wondering what the correct bulb is that should be in the billboard. Although the above picture shows a regular bulb, I acquired this accessory with an elongated bulb (picture attached). It says '1821' on the bulb but I can't find this bulb on TrainTender (my normal go-to for parts). If anyone has a parts list for the 577, it would be much appreciated!


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

You won't find this as a common lamp but is available from like ebay, Mouser, digikey etc Here is a google link to images and sources for this lamp.


1821 miniature lamp - Google Search


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## Yard King (4 mo ago)

The only reference I can find is on page M2444 and it just says replace with a 14V 3-1/2 G bulb. I suspect this is the same as used on steam locomotives which Gilbert shows as a PA8999 or No. 440 or 1449


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

My 1946 577 came with 1477 bulbs, pictured below. These are 24V bulbs. My 1950 577 came with 1447 bulbs, the small globe 18V bulbs. The original elongated bulbs can be replaced with either 1447 or 2447 bulbs. I use the 2447 bulbs in all my Gilbert turnout lanterns for far less heat generation. 1477 bulbs are also readily available.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Mine are 14 v from the picture. Just put in any I had that fit. Didnt k ow the original was obling.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Sjm9911, the round 7/16" globe bulb is correct and what came in it from the factory because yours is 1950 production. The bulb should be the 18V 1447 not the 14V 1449 that is currently in the billboard. Those bulbs see a constant 16V from a Gilbert transformer. If one of the new 18V supplies are used then I recommend the 2447 bulbs.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Here are pictures of an early style 1946 577 and a later style 1950 577. The 1946 (and 1947) had a diecast billboard frame with a screw in each top corner. They had the lever style motor brushes and usually the elongated bulbs. The later 577's had a stamped sheet metal billboard frame and the motor has the shoulder style brushes. The bulbs are the 7/16" small round globe 1447, 18V. The feet also changed from two long rectangular feet to four smaller round feet.


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