# My first Loco



## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

Am I wrong? I love the GE trains and could not pass on the Dash 8-40cw. I'm new to the hobby and wanted to start with a loco to build from. I have a large space to work with so my thought is to pick the locomotives that I would like to run on my layout. The specifications call for a minimum of 22" radius so I'm up in the air about the mainline minimum and turnouts. Just starting out and planning so bare with me as I progress.

Thanks,

-Bob


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

That's like asking if you're wrong about the art you like. Nice looking loco. I'd have one.


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

lol, thanks


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Nice diesel!
Now get two more, and pull hundred-car drags. 
BTW, you might also look at the Walthers ES44.


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

bobkat said:


> Am I wrong?


No. That's the approach I took, so it must be right.  I built my roster of locomotives first, because the first decision I made was mine would be a modern era layout.


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## Stan D (Feb 1, 2019)

I got turned on to this site, and I thought I'd pass it along to you. It lets you look up most locos and rolling stock of a particular road name.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/#c

It has this;


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

Awesome! Thanks for the link, just what I needed. Yeah my thought process was minimum radius for my bigger locos when I get to the layout planning.

Thanks


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

bobcat, track layout is critical to a smooth running layout. Take your time and test your locos going forward and backward through your track work before locking down your track. Have fun planning and executing, looking forward to see your progress.

Joe


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## jackpresley (Dec 19, 2017)

jlc41 said:


> bobcat, track layout is critical to a smooth running layout.


:appl:
Best advice ever.

My advice is also: Test first, then plan.

I was surprised how much room it takes to start an incline. While the locomotive can handle some very unrealistic grades, it can't get instantly transition from level to 2% without breaking the train. Just like on curves, better to have easements into and out of grades.


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## jlc41 (Feb 16, 2016)

Good point on the easements and inclines/grades.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Peco Turnouts*



bobkat said:


> Awesome! Thanks for the link, just what I needed. Yeah my thought process was minimum radius for my bigger locos when I get to the layout planning.
> 
> Thanks


bobkat;

Since you have the space, go for as large a minimum radius as you can practically fit. Those big, modern, diesels and some of the long modern freight cars they pull will look, and perform better on 24"-36" radius curves. Good turnouts are also an important point for consideration. Peco, and Micro Engineering turnouts are both very good. Atlas "Snap track" turnouts are the worst, and should be avoided. If you make your own, you can build them to match your large radius curves, or anything else that comes up. I recommend you use #6 as a minimum turnout. Using #8 would be even better.

The attached file has more information on turnouts.

have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos: 

View attachment All AboutTurnouts.pdf


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*You're not wrong, you're right on track*



bobkat said:


> Am I wrong? I love the GE trains and could not pass on the Dash 8-40cw. I'm new to the hobby and wanted to start with a loco to build from. I have a large space to work with so my thought is to pick the locomotives that I would like to run on my layout. The specifications call for a minimum of 22" radius so I'm up in the air about the mainline minimum and turnouts. Just starting out and planning so bare with me as I progress.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Bob



Bob;

Great looking loco! Starting with a smooth running, good quality, loco isn't "wrong" at all. You are wise to do so. Actually it's one of the things recommended in my "Where do I start" document below. It, and the other attached files, may help you with planning your layout.

Have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:

View attachment WHERE DO I START 3.pdf


View attachment 1 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 2 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 3 & 4 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 5 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment 6 How to build a better first layout.pdf


View attachment All AboutTurnouts.pdf


View attachment MODEL RAILROADING ON A BUDGET.pdf


View attachment Model Railroad Terminology 2.2.pdf


View attachment How I scratch build turnouts new(8).pdf


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

Thanks guy's. Been planning the layout and although I'm a little excited about the build I'm taking my time and absorbing the knowledge on this site to come up with a great layout that I have in the back of my mind. You guys rock, thanks...........


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Good looking locomotive there.


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

*Progress*

It's been awhile since my last post, just wanted to post a progress update.

I've decided to go home made all around, Controller, Booster, Signal and Turnout Logic, I've also decided to build my own turnouts as well.

I started planning my layout around Digitrax and all the accessories to match, signal boards etc.. and man does the cost add up quick. As cheap as the fat [email protected]!# that I am, just kidding I'm not fat. I started taking a look into DCC++ and coming from an electronic background I thought I'd give it a shot, might save me some cash.

Needless to say, I now have a Controller a variable 10 amp Booster, Block Detection, Turnout Control using Servos and a Signaling System all using Arduino Micro Controllers a few Shift Registers and Multiplexers and having a blast putting it all together.

I decided to go with #8 turnouts wherever I can and maybe #6 in the yard. Mainline radius I'm trying to keep it at 36" and 38". My first handmade turnout came out ok, I'm using that as my trial and it lets me know what I need to work on. I've put together a frog jig for both #6 and #8's. Most of my track layout will be flex but in towns and station areas it will be hand laid.

I looked into a signaling system but the cost again was way out of my budget, 30-50 bucks for a single prototypical signal. I have so far almost completed 6ea single head triple lights all using brass tubing and assorted brass sheets, the longest part of the signal build was putting together the jigs for each process but now that they're complete each one seems to get faster and better.

I'm now in the process of accumulating the wood for the train table, I have an idea of my layout but that seems to change with every day. I know how much everyone enjoys photo's and I'm sorry for not having any attached with this post, not really a lot to see but electronics. I will however put a few together soon and post.

Thank you for reading..........


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

*Pics from the Bench*

Here are a few pic's of my work bench. I'm running a Pi-3B+ with wifi and JMRI. The orange CT's are part of my block detection setup, I'm using a Multiplexer for an 8 block circuit which I can place within districts.

Signals being wired and still work in process and my test track just for testing stuff and my turnout.









































Forgot my Controller and Booster.... I'll post that later.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Good looking Atlas model there.
How much room space do you have for the layout?


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

bobkat said:


> Here are a few pic's of my work bench. I'm running a Pi-3B+ with wifi and JMRI. The orange CT's are part of my block detection setup, I'm using a Multiplexer for an 8 block circuit which I can place within districts.
> 
> Signals being wired and still work in process and my test track just for testing stuff and my turnout.


Nice work! 

One of the great things about this hobby.. with every aspect you can do as little or as much as you like.


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

*Space*

Hi Ken,

I'm using 16' x 13' of my basement, I'm thinking "Horseshoe layout" with loops at both ends. The section I'll be starting with is 10' in length (the upper part of the shoe). The loops at each end will need to be 7' in width for my 38" radius curves.

Lot's of mental planning right now.


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

Thanks Stumpy..........


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Wood for the train table?*



bobkat said:


> It's been awhile since my last post, just wanted to post a progress update.
> 
> I've decided to go home made all around, Controller, Booster, Signal and Turnout Logic, I've also decided to build my own turnouts as well.
> 
> ...




bobkat;

One very common practice/"mistake" made by many in building a "train table" is overbuilding. Often way overbuilding! 
First of all model railroads are supported on "benchwork," which may, or may not, take the form of a table. I'm not nitpicking semantics here, benchwork has many forms, and it's only purpose is to support the track layout. When you come up with your final track plan, that track plan should dictate the size, and shape, of the benchwork, not the other way around.
Many model railroaders, especially new ones, tend to literally "think" in terms of 4' x 8' rectangles as they design their track plan. "I'll put two 4x8s end-to-end here, and another one at 90 degrees at each end for the loops" is the kind of thinking I mean. It's not "wrong" but it is limiting.
Your layout can be any shape. You're going to be the guy designing, and building the benchwork, so it can be any shape your heart desires, it shouldn't be designed to "fit" anything but your available space, with room for aisles.


Two other important things seldom considered when planning and building, benchwork are weight, and portability. Many use 4'x8' sheets of 3/4" thick plywood, on a frame made of 2x4s and build one giant, extremely heavy, and permanently-connected table. That's way overbuilt! Remember,this item is supposed to be designed to support model trains, not real trains! 
You really only need plywood in the area directly under your track, rivers, roads, etc. Any wood that isn't supporting these things is unnecessary, and just adds to the overall weight, and cost, of the layout. Plywood 3/8"-1/2" thick is quite adequate. Legs can be 2x2s instead of 2x4s. The frame can be 1x3s instead of the 2x4, or even bigger and heavier, beams some have used.
In fact, a layout doesn't strictly need any plywood sheets at all. Extruded foam insulation board 2" thick is plenty strong enough to be self-supporting on a simple grid of 1x3 pine planks with 1x3 cross pieces every 16" or so. You could even crawl on top of it, though I don't know why you would ever need to.
Another good idea for all the framing, and legs, of a layout is to make 'L-girders" from 1x3 and 1x2 planks glued and screwed together in an "L" shape.
These L-girders are extremely strong, highly resistant to warping, and still relatively lightweight & inexpensive.

The last consideration, and the most often overlooked, is sectional construction. According to Google, the average American moves 11 times in his lifetime. Nearly all model railroads are built on the naive assumption that they will never have to be moved. Sadly, this assumption has resulted in the serious damage, or total destruction, of many model railroads that took years/decades to build, and cost many hundreds of dollars and hours of work to build them. The modeler then had to go back and start over, from square one, in his new home.
A railroad built in sections say, 2'x4' sections, can be disassembled with little damage, moved easily to your new home, and reassembled, more or less intact, even in a somewhat different size & shaped space. I know this from personal experience, and I'm very glad I built my layout in sections.
Sections also make it immensely easier to work on what would otherwise be "under the table" wiring, and mounting of switch machines. Instead of crawling under, and working overhead in tight, uncomfortable, quarters, just take a section to your workbench and turn it upside down. Sit in a comfortable chair, and do the same work easily.

Good luck, have fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

Hi Traction Fan,

All very good points. The overbuilding of the train table is an issue I want to avoid, so I'm looking into, just as you mentioned, an open train table concept. I in fact will only use plywood where I have rail, the rest will be of foam and plaster. I'm using 1x3's glued, screwed and painted. Once I have all of the electronics in order and working 100 percent, only then will I really set down and compose my layout.

I have been reading, planning and searching the world wide network on train tables, electronics, weathering then took a path to get to the end result. A great hobby and with experts and old timers such as yourself behind me, I'm not shy to make a few mistakes along the way.

Thanks Traction Fan,
-Bobkat


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Hahahaha I am in the process of building my layout and I broke quite literally every rule you just said. That being said I just went out on a limb and drove to Home Depot and 2x4x8’ studs were $2.10 a board when the 1x2 were over $3. I also used plywood (1/4”) to cover the entire thing and built it into the framing in my layout room. I did use extruded polystyrene boards over the plywood though.Take it from me and learn from my mistakes he isn’t giving you bad information. Worse comes to worse if I ever have to leave my home it’s going to be in many many many years and I’m sure that I’ll have torn it apart and rebuilt it by then anyhow and I wanted it built strong having an 11 year old son and his buddies running around my house


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Jscullans said:


> Hahahaha I am in the process of building my layout and I broke quite literally every rule you just said. That being said I just went out on a limb and drove to Home Depot and 2x4x8’ studs were $2.10 a board when the 1x2 were over $3. I also used plywood (1/4”) to cover the entire thing and built it into the framing in my layout room. I did use extruded polystyrene boards over the plywood though.Take it from me and learn from my mistakes he isn’t giving you bad information. Worse comes to worse if I ever have to leave my home it’s going to be in many many many years and I’m sure that I’ll have torn it apart and rebuilt it by then anyhow and I wanted it built strong having an 11 year old son and his buddies running around my house


Well, your first mistake is in assuming that these are rules. They aren't. Guidelines and recommendations. It's your layout, you do what you want. We're just trying to save you time, effort, expense, and frustration.

Knowing a bit about carpentry, though, you'll want to have a look at that lumber. I've seen the stacks of 2x4x8 studs at HD. Their ONLY redeeming quality is their price. If you're going to hide them inside a wall, then the splits, chips, bark remnants, unplaned surfaces, warps, bows, twists, etc., probably don't matter much, but you wouldn't catch me using them for any job where appearance or precision matter. Even for rough construction, I've found myself picking over two complete pallets to find a dozen that were acceptable quality. The dimensional lumber, while more expensive, is much better quality. I still avoid home improvement centers for most of my lumber purchases, though. A real lumber yard is a much better bet.

And really, no roughhousing in the layout room! Ever! That goes for the kids, too.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Strong benchwork*



Jscullans said:


> Hahahaha I am in the process of building my layout and I broke quite literally every rule you just said. That being said I just went out on a limb and drove to Home Depot and 2x4x8’ studs were $2.10 a board when the 1x2 were over $3. I also used plywood (1/4”) to cover the entire thing and built it into the framing in my layout room. I did use extruded polystyrene boards over the plywood though.Take it from me and learn from my mistakes he isn’t giving you bad information. Worse comes to worse if I ever have to leave my home it’s going to be in many many many years and I’m sure that I’ll have torn it apart and rebuilt it by then anyhow and I wanted it built strong having an 11 year old son and his buddies running around my house




Jscullans;

First off, what CTValley said, The suggestions in my post are just that, suggestions, not "rules." There are no rules in model railroading, It wouldn't be much fun if there were. :laugh:

Second, there's more than one way to build benchwork, just as there's more than one way to do anything in this hobby. Your 2x4s bolted to the wall studs is one way, there are plenty of others.

Third, "Strong" can include "heavy", but it doesn't have to. As an extreme example, the box girder in the top photo below weighs only a few ounces. I can ballance it on one finger. Yet it can support hundreds of pounds. I weigh two hundred and seventy-five pounds and that little box girder can support me.  It's basically a super-lightweight replacement for a 2" x 2" piece of lumber. Made of 1/4" Luan plywood, and Styrofoam, It weighs considerably less than the 2x2 does, but it is actually a good deal stronger. 

My standard size (4' L x 16" H x 16" D) layout sections are light enough to lift with one hand, but I can also sit on one without breaking it. (see bottom photo)

Since my own railroad was built in these small, lightweight, sections, I was able to move it easily into my new home, and save years of work by doing so. Does that mean that everybody should have to build their railroads this way? Certainly not! :smilie_daumenneg: 
One of the many very nice things about our hobby is being able to create a whole miniature world in whatever way each of us chooses.

Enjoy 

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

To expand on the very good suggestions of CTValley
and Tractionfan to build 'modules' of lightweight
materials. My room size layout benchwork consisted
of several rectangles of various sizes and shapes. I used
1X3 lumber. Each module was screwed together. 
The legs were 2=1X3's in an L bolted
in each corner for support. Then, the modules were 
assembled to match my layout plans. They were bolted
together then the 1/4" plywood top was screwed to
the modules. 

This easy to assemble, easy to disassemble benchwork
makes changes of layout plans, moving to a new house, or even
selling the layout as I experienced recently, a very simple
matter.

Don


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

I know my layout is going to come down several times and change size regularly so I'm using Kato Unitrack on folding tables 2 1/2*6 and 2 1/2 *8 foot with green felt on it. I plan on doing all the scenery diorama style so it can be taken down. Any uneven table joints are resolved with construction shims. So far so good, but eventually I'm going to have to start making more scenery and building fewer cars, the yard is already full.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Extruded foam scenery*



Murv2 said:


> I know my layout is going to come down several times and change size regularly so I'm using Kato Unitrack on folding tables 2 1/2*6 and 2 1/2 *8 foot with green felt on it. I plan on doing all the scenery diorama style so it can be taken down. Any uneven table joints are resolved with construction shims. So far so good, but eventually I'm going to have to start making more scenery and building fewer cars, the yard is already full.


Murv2:

You might consider making your scenery from extruded foam insulation board. This rigid, strong, and lightweight material is available in home improvement centers. It's normally sold in 4'x8' sheets of various thicknesses. You can cut it to fit your tables paint it a dirt brown color (It comes in bright pink, blue, or green, depending on the brand.) and lay your Kato Unitrack on top of it. Need a river, ditch or road underpass below track level? Just cut it out of the foam sheet. It cuts with a sharp knife, or any small hand saw. There are also special "hot wire foam cutters available, but for your small layout's foam cutting needs, I doubt you'd want to spend the money. Another handy, and inexpensive tool for foam scenery is a "Shure Foam rasp." (see photo) They're also available at home centers. Some 40-80 grt. sandpaper would also be useful.
For hills, tunnels and other above track scenery, use the leftover pieces of that 4x8 foam sheet. Just stack them up like layers of a cake. White (Elmer's) glue, or "liquid nails FOR PROJECTS" will glue it together. If you use liquid nails, be sure to get the "for projects type. Conventional liquid nails contains chemicals that damage foam. The for projects type does not.

Let the glue dry overnight. The next day, you can carve the hill shape from the stack of foam. Dirt brown latex house paint will color your ditches, hills, etc. While still wet, it can also serve as an adhesive for fine ground real dirt, ground foam, and other scenery materials. For a firmer bond, you can add dilute white glue, after the paint has completely dried.

Using foam like this, especially if it's cut into small diorama sections, will give your layout a finished look, but still be relatively easy to change.

good luck & have fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

When I built my benchwork I got good dry 2x4 boards and put back any that were twisted warped cracked ect. Hopefully it works out well for the long term. I know that I don’t plan on leaving my home anyway and where I was going with my post is I had run into struggles with it not going in with a certain plan. It’s still working out for me but could go better


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

is the switch machine home brew? I was thinking about that myself. someplace else a guy posted one made from an rc servo. it was for o scale and appeared to work well enough. however I'm fiddling in ho now. I thought about the servo approach but then considered something like a small dc motor itself, turning a screw attached to the turnout.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

or maybe this

https://www.adafruit.com/product/3871


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Severn said:


> is the switch machine home brew? I was thinking about that myself. someplace else a guy posted one made from an rc servo. it was for o scale and appeared to work well enough. however I'm fiddling in ho now. I thought about the servo approach but then considered something like a small dc motor itself, turning a screw attached to the turnout.


May I suggest a YouTube channel? This guy spent his life dealing with electronics, and he applies a lot of his knowledge to model railroading. He does work with servos, also.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE1TsLOIG2wxBZ7fe8512qw/featured


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

flyboy2610 said:


> May I suggest a YouTube channel? This guy spent his life dealing with electronics, and he applies a lot of his knowledge to model railroading. He does work with servos, also.
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE1TsLOIG2wxBZ7fe8512qw/featured


Someone has definitely figured out RC servos. I use these products on my layout and they are awesome. http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/

The new Walthers system is very similar. Not sure whether it is servo-based or not, though.


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## bobkat (Feb 6, 2019)

*Progress*

Updated Message


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