# newbe need DCC understanding sizing to buy



## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

Hello to all: HO scale DCC. not purchased yet will be DIGITRAX 
I am confused. please help me understand. 1 loco. about 2.5 amps with sound decoder?
then a Zepher is maxed out if its 3 amps. what am i doing wrong. also a 11 x 7 layout.
turntable many lighted bldgs yard layout and double main also 2 level
Thanks for the help and understanding bob
ps. have i have allready purched used 3 more locos dcc.


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

2.5 amps is about 5 times what a loco should pull.
About .5 amps would be more like it.

If your used locos pull more than that you will need to re-motor them.
The super Chief has about 5 amps.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Digitrax is now offering the Zephyr Extra wich is 3.5 amps.It should power up to three,may be more,HO newer locos even with sound.Then it may be quite different with older locos that were more power hungry then.

Then if you're planning on a large layout and running many locos at a time,you should be looking for a more powerful system with either a DCS100 (5 amps) or DCS200(8 amps).Or start with a Zephyr Extra and add a booster later on as you increase your fleet.

Lighted buildings and other goodies are powered with auxiliary power supplies completely separate from the DCC system.


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## Northern Route (May 12, 2014)

If you draw two and half amps from an HO sound decoder you will also be modeling that diesel smoke coming out of the engine for a very short period of time.


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## daveh219 (Sep 16, 2012)

Bob...I have the Zephyr Xtra and we just used it at a show to power 5 n-scale locos. We just ordered the next step up...a 5 amp Empire Builder. Our LHS told us IT would run both our n-scale layouts - 4x8 and 4x6 - plus a 4/8 HO layout. He said the only thing to watch out for was running too many sound equip DCC locos. I agree with others that you should be able to run your layout with the Zephyr


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I run 5 HO sound locos on my room sized layout all the time with a Zephyr Xtra with no problems at all. 4 F-7s on the two main lines and another geep 9 in the yard.

Magic


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## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

FIRST thanks to all for your quick reply.
Dale C. brakeman Jake. Northern route. Dave H. and Majic... I think now its the decoders i don't understand. DO they draw .5 amps with or without sound on a newer motor? as i have older dc. and 3 newer motors dcc. Tyco dc. power pack. and want to supply a consist of 2 or 3 locos. THE WIFE is Supportive and found my older models 1985 aprox. Hope this makes more sense to all. Hope i didn't confuse u all also. want to get the correct dcc set up the first time.
or as close to it. This will be NEW..Boosters cost also Thanks again Bob


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## rzw0wr (Aug 28, 2013)

Bob, I don't think decoders draw much current.
The draw as I understand it comes mainly from the motor.
Then you have the lights.
If they are LEDs each will draw about 20ma.
The older models will likely draw more current than the newer ones.

Usually a new style motor will solve that problem.

I have several older Atlas and Kato locos from the 80-90 time frame. all appear to work fine so far.
One Atlas has an open frame motor I think I may have to replace.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

My Zephyr is my bench / backup command station. In HO, I have run 6 sound equipped locos with dual decoders and 4 more decoder equipped end cars and 6 LED lighted passenger cars with a new Zephyr at the same time on my layout without issues. I normally use a 8 amp Super Chief with a 20 amp power supply. That power supply has an ammeter that shows a little over 2 amp draw with the above load. Note that the wiring on my layout is over engineered for its size which keeps the voltage drop to the minimum and keeps the amp draw down. A modern HO loco usually draws less than .5 amps but that is what is used for guessing the load.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=14852


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

If ou can afford some expense,I'd recommend that you start fresh with modern technology locomotives then after a while,with a better knowledge of DCC,you could think of retrofitting older engines.

Don't get me wrong...your older locos aren't throwaways.It's only that most of them will need what we call a "hard wire" install,wich does need some knowledge to do,unless you have someone else do it for you.Then if you are an electronics technician,it should be a piece of cake for you.In some cases,locos need to be remotored BTW.

Newer locos are sold in a few flavors,wich are clearly stipulated on the box.
-"DCC ready" means they are DC but are all ready for DCC retrofit either with a board replacement decoder or with an eight or nine pin connector.In each case,the retrofit takes only a few minutes.
-"DCC on board" or "DCC equipped" or such means they already have a silent decoder aboard.Simply put on the track,program its new address (Zephyr can do this) and go.
-"Sound equipped" means it's all ready to go,with bells and whistles.Simply program address and go.

Decoders alone don't draw much,a matter of a few milliamps.It's the motor and the sound processor wich draw the current,and even then it's not much.Below an ampere per loco generally.The Zephyr will easily power three (and likely more) sound equipped locos.However,with a Zephyr Extra,you may want an axtra throttle like a UT4 (single throttle)or a DT402 (has two throttles).The Zephyr can control up to twenty locos but has only one throttle.

Your Tyco power supply can be used for accessories.

There's a learning curve to DCC but don't let it get you down...it's not so bad.And this forum is a wealth of infos...don't shy away from asking.You could also do Google searches on DCC,the NMRA (train modellers national association) and the different manufacturer's websites (Digitrax,Soundtraxx,etc).


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## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

thanks gentlemen,  first i am electrician NOT electronics but i don't have enough knowledge in electronics to be dangerous to my self. But i can do a hard wire with a little knowledge of the loco's them selves. 
Jerry, why then the super chief and 8 amps if the zepher will do? over engineer is good. tell me more on it pls. Is .5 amp for a sound decoder?
Brakeman Jake. thanks for reply also. Sound processor on board or seporate unit draw? good info to. I know the boards donot draw current the load on them do.
Dale, thanks also. What is an open frame motor? As you all see I am new at mrr. do i need a new thread for that? Love your statement IF IT AIN'T BROKE FIX IT TILL IT IS....
All: my plan is to buy a controller and power supply, build track, test as i go no shorts.From loops or turntable etc. then run trains :appl:# 12 wire to tfr. #18 to track.etc..then new loco's
thks for your help bob


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

I do not like to re-buy or upgrade due to lack of future capabilities. While a Zephyr can run my current layout, it is not what should be used on it. The biggest limitations with a Zephyr are 3.5 amps and 20 addresses. The Super Chief 8 amp unit is only slightly more than the 5 and both will handle 120 addresses. I bought the Zephyr for primarily a bench test unit. It is very good for most small home layouts (less than 8 locos on the layout) and is compatible with other Digitrax products. The .5 amp per loco load planning is a general guideline for HO when people do not test for the actual load their loco draws. Sound adds to the load, but the motor stall draw is most of it.


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## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

thanks Jerry, YOU are very helpful in my understanding. I also don't want to bye twice. Now i comprehend more. thick skull. old age. ha ha. [email protected]=3.5 amps. Looks like i will buy the super chief 5 or 8 amp also. (to have 2 cab control at once +. the zephyr does not do it!) any other thoughts you or anyone has please let me know. Does the booster have to match the chief?
ex: chief 5a 8a booster?? thanks bob


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

The Zephyr can control multiple locos at once. You simply change addresses on the throttle to change what a given loco is doing. You can add more throttles to the Zephyr. The Super Chief is a command station with a 5 or 8 amp booster built in. You have to buy a power supply for it that should be equal to or greater than the booster rating. A booster can not put out more amps than what is available from the power supply. To add more amp capacity to either the Zephyr or Super Chief, you add more boosters. Each booster has to be supplied DC power. I have a 20 amp power supply, so I could run up to a total of 20 amps worth of boosters. If I add more power supplies, then I can add more boosters as desired. Only 1 command station is ever used on a layout.


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## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

Thanks again Jerry, been away from computer to reply to u. again thanks I have a better understanding NOW. U have been Very Helpful as i still do not know why it was so hard for me to get it. Take care, hope u will still help out as questions will again be needed..this forum and those like you are a great asset. bob


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Bob

Jerry is very sharp and knowledgeable on all things DCC.

But, you could misunderstand one thing he said, "only
one command station is ever used", which is true. However
you can have several hand held controllers to add to it's
capabilities, maybe one loco punched up on the main
controller, another on a hand held under control of a buddy.

Don


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## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

Hello again Don, Thank you for the reply. If i understand correctly, the zepher is 3 amp p.s.
the booster has to be 3 amp or less to add to it? the throttles i understand, as they are only Controllers. Jerry i respect his vast knowledge of dcc and help also..Don would you care if i friend and pm you??? to clean up this thread to keep the OP's happier? thanks again Bob


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

You can add whatever booster or command station (programmed as a booster though) to a Zephyr since they'll have their own power supply.Set up this way,the only power from the Zephyr goes to the tracks it is connected to then the booster(s) supply their own section(s) of the layout.However,the Zephyr remains the brain of the system,sending only digital infos to the boosters.

If you're planning a large layout with many trains running,you may as well go for a stronger set right offBut then,my suggestion,is that you buy a set wich has a true command station with a DCS prefix (DCS100 or DCS200).You can have a less expensive set with a DB150 booster as command station...fine set still...but the DB150 lacks some programming features you might miss in the future.

Over engineering can be a good idea in a way but not all the time.If you are to use the stronger powered setup,I recommend you use some amperage limitation device like the PM42 that can split all that energy into four sections and also be set as an amperage limiter.I use a DCS200 (8 amps) through a PM42 wich limits power to four sections to 1,5 amps. each.If all goes well,eight amps is great but if a short should occur (generally does occasionally),it can nearly weld wheels to the track...decoders don't like this much.

Many think stronger is better...not all the time.The Zephyr is safer in that regard.


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## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

Hello again Brakeman Jake, Thank you for the info. I was thinking of the dcs 200 also as i will have a 11x7 and a 7x7 at the end so a large layout.L shape. 8 amps. you suggested a pm 42 to protect it. which i will use for tt, 3 power dist. and a bunch of lights. as i thought it redundt it to by the zepher at 3 amps and then a. booster,power supply for it.b. switch yard 1 loco, main line Amtrak Lighted, and 3 sd40's all with sound.right now i think i am over the 3 amps.Will need suggestions on layout tho.as will be another thread. Thanks Again Bob


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Since you have already set your mind on Digitrax equipment,you should visit their website and take a close look at all the features the different sets are offering.Sometimes differences aren't obvious,just take your time.And if you have questions,you can contact them through their email,they're very helpful and generally respond the next day.


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## bob from pdx (Mar 18, 2014)

Will Do and thanks bob


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

*Decoder type*

I have a couple of used engines I purchased at a train show. I don't know what brand they are. How do I determine which decoders to purchase?


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Post some pictures of them and maybe someone can id them.
Also just DCC or with sound?

Magic


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Looking at the bottom of the engine the Diesel is Model Power and the Steam is Bachmann


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

I guess I would like the option of DCC and DCC with sound for cost comparison


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Magic,
I have some pictures on now


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I'm not all that familiar with the steam but the Santa Fe looks like an E 8 or something close to that. The only locos I've converted are Athearn and I used a digitrax DH123P decoder. that's no sound. That comes with a 9 pin harness that you need to solder in. something like that should work in a Model Power loco. Probability would work in the Bachmann steamer as well. 
Cost about $20.00 to $ 25.00. That decoder went into a DCC ready MTH loco.

If you go with sound you can add about $100.00 to that cost. For my sound Athearn GP9 I used a Soundtrax Tsunami TSU-750 for about $118.00 plus $15.00 or so for a speaker and enclosure. Sound gets expensive. I'm not even sure they still make the 750 series anymore. 

That's about all the help I can be, I'm not an expert on this kind of thing.

Magic


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The steamer is the Bachmann Southern Pacific Daylight.

The diesel appears to be one of the FA units. An EMD E loco
would have 6 wheel trucks and a longer nose. This loco
appears to have 4 wheel trucks, hard to tell, they are in
shadows.

Don


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## flyerrich (Feb 17, 2014)

Don,
you are correct. The Model Power is a 4 wheel truck. So that would make it an FA unit?


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I just knew someone would come along with the correct answers. 
My tired eyes though they were 6 wheel trucks. 
The same non sound decoder will still work in the FA. Ditto for sound.
The steamer would take a completely different sound decoder. 

Magic


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, the diesel is an F, the A designation means it has a cab,
an F-B unit has no cab and is used with an F-A. I don't
know which model of F it is, most likely that can be found
on Amazon or Ebay.

Don


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