# AF 302AC Restoration



## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

I am well underway in the restoration of my childhood American Flyer 302AC. I really dove a little deeper into the project than I intended, however, the elaborate deconstruction and reconstruction has taught me a lot about the builds of these trains. You can follow my entire build here.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I looked at the material contained in the provided link. That is a great collection of pictures and commentary. One thing you did not mention is the date stamp inside the boiler shell, almost all Gilbert steam engines have one. This will tell us the production date if the stamp is still readable.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> I looked at the material contained in the provided link. That is a great collection of pictures and commentary.


Thanks for the kind words!



AmFlyer said:


> One thing you did not mention is the date stamp inside the boiler shell



Unfortunately, neither of my boiler shells (300 and 302AC) had a date stamp, which I thought was weird. The shells were definitely not repainted.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I am sure you will be delighted when your project is completed. I think these old steamers
will still be running when we are all long gone. I have learned a lot in 3 years of messing with these. Once you do your first one the rest will be easier. The nice thing is all parts are still to be had. And not a great cost. Post pics of your progress.

The date stamps were usually just month number and last 2 digits of the year. Like 7-51. I have a 282 that the motor
ran very very hot till I fixed it. It ran so hot it scorched the under side of the shell. Right where the date stamp probably was.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Looking forward to the pictures of your rebuild. Neat link you referenced, I built 100's of models growing up and still have some kits around here that have never been started. If you're interested in real planes as well as the models, here's a cool site all about "Warbirds" and their restorations.
http://warbirdsnews.com/


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Here are the tender chassis pictures as promised.....

Don't be mad that I switched out the link coupler for the knuckle coupler...:goofball:


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Great job, that looks brand new. Can't wait to see the finish.
Your engine, your rules.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

I am making steady progress with all the innards. I soldered for the first time in my life and it went pretty smoothly once I got past soldering on the truck rivets. I am assuming that task would have been a little easier with a bigger iron tip...but the connections are solid and everything works as expected. However, I did have one big set back. While I was trying to detach an old wire soldered to the Field the inner wire broke off. This was a part that I bought off eBay because my other two Fields have the same inner wire issue. I am thinking about learning to rewind my own fields....I am not adding any more Fields to my inner wire graveyard!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is better than the engines looked new from the factory.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have rewound the field wire. The wire on bottom of the coil broke. Not long enough to resolder. It was not bad. Best to unwind the whole thing. Try to lay winds as neat as you can. You will not be able to be as neat as Gilbert did. You will end up with some wire not 
being able to use. If you put all the wire back on, the armature will hit the coil. Back off some wire till armature can spin without hitting the wire. I ended up with at least 10 feet of wire I could not use. Does not seem to be a problem. This motor runs as good as any of mine. I had an extra coil in case my rewind did not work. But it did work. Try it.


I would say notice which direction the wire is wound. I did use the old wire.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Kvlazer, great job! As Tom said looks better than factory. Looking forward to the finished product. 

Kenny


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> That is better than the engines looked new from the factory.





AFGP9 said:


> Kvlazer, great job!


Thanks guys!


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

kvlazer22 said:


> Thanks guys!





mopac said:


> I have rewound the field wire. The wire on bottom of the coil broke. Not long enough to resolder. It was not bad. Best to unwind the whole thing. Try to lay winds as neat as you can. You will not be able to be as neat as Gilbert did. You will end up with some wire not
> being able to use. If you put all the wire back on, the armature will hit the coil. Back off some wire till armature can spin without hitting the wire. I ended up with at least 10 feet of wire I could not use. Does not seem to be a problem. This motor runs as good as any of mine. I had an extra coil in case my rewind did not work. But it did work. Try it.
> 
> 
> I would say notice which direction the wire is wound. I did use the old wire.


I just went on Amazon and picked up a spool of enameled 24 gauge wire.....we will see how it goes!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Your 302AC should have an XA9569/XA11077 armature with clear insulation (not purple.) These armatures were factory wound using 27ga wire. The windings were counter clockwise and they were layered, not random. There were a total of 75 windings/pole. A few less will not matter. The DC resistance of a winding should be 1.5 Ohms. The purple armatures were random wound at the factory and they varied from 73 to 77 turns.
Only the field used 24ga wire. I recommend against using 24ga wire on the armature.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> I recommend against using 24ga wire on the armature.


Maybe I miss typed somewhere but I am winding the FIELD not the Armature...sorry for the confusion. However, once again...I still like hearing all your knowledge!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The original post said "armature field" so for some reason my mind focused on the first word. The field uses 24ga wire, it is carefully layer wound at the factory.There would be between 187 and 206 turns in 9 layers in the factory winding with a DC resistance of 1.2 to 1.4 Ohms. The thickness is 16/32". This is much easier to wind than an armature.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> The original post said "armature field" so for some reason my mind focused on the first word. The field uses 24ga wire, it is carefully layer wound at the factory.There would be between 187 and 206 turns in 9 layers in the factory winding with a DC resistance of 1.2 to 1.4 Ohms. The thickness is 16/32". This is much easier to wind than an armature.


I also read that it is 40 feet of wire, which for me, might be a safer bet to figure out ahead of time. I worry I would get lost in the counting. The 9 layers is helpful....I wish I would have paid attention to that when I was unwinding it. However, I could just dive into my broke bottom wire graveyard and unwind another! Thanks again for the info!


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Does anyone know the difference in these two tender bodies? Besides the broken tabs :goofball:


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I have not seen the 40' length for the field winding before. Using 200 turns on the field, 40' is 2.4"/turn, sounds like it is in the ballpark.
Looks to me like a tender shell someone drilled two holes in.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

AmFlyer said:


> Looks to me like a tender shell someone drilled two holes in.


I think the holes have some legitimacy to them because I have seen Gilbert part drawings with the holes illustrated. I thought maybe a date range could be determined by the holes.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Sorry, am not familiar with tenders having those holes. The only function I could think for an extra hole that size would be to pass the tubing through from a SIT unit. There were no Atlantics made with SIT I am aware of. If that is the purpose behind these holes and if they are factory then the tender would be 1946 or 1947.
Now that I think more about it there is one real long shot possibility. A 305 Atlantic was put in the catalog but never made. Could they be sound openings for the never produced 305 tender whistle? Like I said I am really way out there with that theory.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I neglected to mention. If the 305 application is possible then the tender would be early 1951.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Winding the field wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I measured out 40'10" of wire and starting winding. I ended up with exactly 5" of wire on each side and had 9 layers as recommended from Tom. I satisfied my 40' of wire on the field. I measured the resistance and I am right at 1.4 Ohms. My finger tips are sore today from pulling and adjusting each strand. I would love to see the machine that accomplished this at Gilbert.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

That looks very very good. Much neater than mine came out but I used the old wire
and it had some kinks in it. I am sure that coil will work. It really isn't that bad to
rewind one. A little tedious.

Just curious, how much did the wire cost.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Fantastic! I can see your fingers would hurt after pulling all those turns tight.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Does anyone know where I could pick up the cloth wire sheathing without the wire? I see some of the original Gilbert cloth covered wire on eBay however, I would basically just be buying that for the cloth sheath. I thought maybe I could save a couple bucks and get it without the wire. I would like to keep the original look of the cloth stuff on my new enamel field wire. I also would like to get into making my own wire harnesses.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

mopac said:


> Just curious, how much did the wire cost.


I got it for $5.98 on Amazon for 101'.

BNTECHGO 24 AWG Magnet Wire - Enameled Magnet Winding Wire - 2 oz


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I have not seen the cloth covering separate. A few of us make our own harnesses.
The stuff I use is not as fuzzy as the original covering. Close enough for me. I am
not fond of the real fuzzy stuff. flyernut makes harnesses. Maybe he will have some pics.
He does a neat thing. He uses heat shrink wrap at the ends. Keeps the covering from unraveling.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

mopac said:


> The stuff I use is not as fuzzy as the original covering.


Sorry, I didn't mean the original fuzzy stuff but the look of the below harness. Is this similar to what you are using? I got this from Port Lines. I would like to try and recreate this harness on my own.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

That looks very much like the stuff I use.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

I need to finish up this 302AC so I can move on to other projects!


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Guys, I was wondering what oil you use for the Gilberts? I have read several places to use sewing machine oil but I was hoping for more of a main stream type.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Over a year ago I have started using synthetic motor oil. Many others use it. Happy
with it. I would think 10W or 20W would work. I use to use 3 In 1 oil. Similar to
sewing machine oil. I think it is too light weight, plus it seems to evaporate. For grease
I use white lithium. Red lithium works great also. Lionel recommends white lithium
for their trains.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

mopac said:


> I use to use 3 In 1 oil.


Glad I asked because I had the 3-in-1 oil in my Home Depot cart!


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

When lubricating oil is required I use Labelle 107 Medium. For gear lube I use the Hob-E-Lube white lithium grease.
There are certain instances a conductive lube is useful. The challenge with 2 rail equipment is it is easy for thin oils to bridge small insulating gaps so I have not used the oil versions. I do use conductive grease sparingly on track pins, 690 rail clips and sliding contacts that might oxidize over time.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Thanks again guys! This 302AC would be struggling without all your knowledge! 

-Eric


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

A good place to oil on a flyer is on the axles where they go
through the bushings. Next to impossible to oil without making
a mess. This dispenser does the trick. Just a bottle with a long
needle. Works great and it came filled with synthetic oil. Got it
off ebay. I went to a local hobby shop first and they really did
not have anything that would work.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

mopac said:


> A good place to oil on a flyer is on the axles where they go through the bushings. Next to impossible to oil without making a mess. This dispenser does the trick. Just a bottle with a long needle.


I definitely realize the importance of the oil on the axle. Now that my #302AC has been scrubbed of all old oils and grease the wheels don't like to spin fast without encountering heavy friction. I am trying to keep oils and grease off it until the final assembly. 
Yes...I got the motor back together and it is working! Pretty exciting accomplishment for me after rewinding that field.

Also, I have plenty of those long needled bottles. They come in handy for the guns....found them right next to my link coupler remover. :hah:

-Eric


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

The wife made me come out of the basement and step away from the 302AC. I decided to bring some other work with me and continue the 336 photoshoot. It makes watching whatever HGTV show she has on a little easier!


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Does anyone have a 302AC with original stamps on the tender? I am looking for measurements of where they placed the "AMERICAN FLYER" stamp.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Here are 2 of mine, the serif lettered one is a 1948 302 and the sans serif one is a 1952 302AC.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Cramden, interesting both of those tenders have two different style trucks on them. The 1952 has the punched hole and the 1948 does not.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Once again Tom, you spotted something I had previously missed. I should look more closely before I post something. Good eye.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Fixed my typo. I sometimes think it is easier to see these details in a picture.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

The tender with the punched hole also has the 3 holes on the front panel.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

Cramden, that is perfect....thanks!

-Eric


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