# Marx Vanderbilt slipping and making weird noises



## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi, I bought a Red Marx Commodore Vanderbilt at the Great Lehigh Valley train meet today. The person who sold it to me tested it there and it seemed to be working fine. When I got home I set up an oval of O Gauge track but it immediately started to act strangely. It started making a weird metal grinding noise- it's hard to describe, but I don't think it made this noise at the train show (However we didn't test it on a track, only tested it directly connected to a transformer) and it slips on the track. The noise almost sounds like a loud buzz, but it still kind of sounds like there's a grinding or scratching sound. It still runs but it gets stuck on some parts of the track, and the wheels are moving, but the train isn't, or it's slowing down. The person who had it said he replaced the third rail pickups, so I kind of wonder if the pickups are pushing the train upwards too much. One of the pickups is a little bent to the side but not too much, you might be able to see it in the pictures. I lubricated it and tried a different transformer but it didn't make a difference- I tested one of my other Marx steam engines and it worked just fine, but not the Vanderbilt. It feels like the bottom of the wheels have friction so I don't see why the wheels would be slipping but it still gets stuck on some parts of the track, it at least _looks_ like the wheels are slipping. How can I stop the train from getting stuck or slowing down like this and what is causing the strange noise?
(Pictures)


Spoiler


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Hold the loco upside down, and, place a piece of track on it.

You should be able to see if the pickups are bottoming out and, keeping the wheels off the track....

The buzzing noise on Marx locos, is, sometimes the reverse unit...


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

There could be a couple reasons, one simple one a bit more complicated. If you hold the engine in place, do the wheels still turn ? The motor appears to have been taken apart, the drivers may be slipping on the shaft. Or like said maybe not good contact with the rails, due to the pick up being incorrect. The engine outside the body would help, and a video of the loco on the track would also be great. Do the drivers move freely or are they stiff ? The pickups look new, so maybe they are to high.
I just noticed the taper of the rear pickup appears backwards, maybe they installed two front pickups, or put the back one in backwards. If it's in backwards it won't have a spring action, and will keep the drivers away from the track.


Dan


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks for the tips. I put a track on the Vanderbilt upside down and the track was being pushed up, it also wobbled side to side but that's most likely because it has rounded rails. It might also be because one of the pickup shoes is leaning to the side. I tried the upside down track test on my M10000 and Marx Marlines steam engine and the track was able to make contact with the wheels without being pressed on, so something is definitely abnormal there. I don't know if the pickups can be on backwards since they have a hole on one end and a peg on the other, so they probably wouldn't fit if you turned them around. Both pickups have spring action. The motor spins freely, but the wheels don't slip on their axles. It usually gets stuck on one of the turns (It slips on other places too, but that turn track is a place where it almost definitely slips if stopped on it), and when it gets stuck the wheels are visibly spinning but the train won't move. The noise is more of a grinding noise, it's not the same as the buzzing noise the E-Unit makes and it sounds different from my other Marx trains- it's more "grindy" and it's louder. The pickups are new, he replaced them. I don't know if the forum attachments can upload video files.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

OK, just checked my Marx loco, think I know what the problem is.

On mine, the wear marks are on the nose of the pickups, on yours, the wear marks are on the heel.

I think your pickups have too large a curve on the heel end, lifting the wheels off the track. I think if you flatten them by about half, that will make them not as tall. 

When you do that, you will have to pull the nose in a bit, so, they don't fall off....


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

BWA said:


> OK, just checked my Marx loco, think I know what the problem is.
> 
> On mine, the wear marks are on the nose of the pickups, on yours, the wear marks are on the heel.
> 
> ...


Yes that would help, they should not be tapered like in the photo.
Dan


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

BWA said:


> OK, just checked my Marx loco, think I know what the problem is.
> 
> On mine, the wear marks are on the nose of the pickups, on yours, the wear marks are on the heel.
> 
> ...


Which parts are the heel and nose of the pickup? When I look at the bottom the wear marks are on the ends that are closest to the middle of the train, not on the back for both.
Also is there any specific method I should use to flatten them? Should I do it by hand or use a special tool?


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

The heel is the end towards the middle of both pickups, where the wear is on your loco.

You should be able to flatten them (slightly, don't go overboard) just by pressing down with your fingers.

There should still be some curve, but, not as much yours has. Just go carefully a bit at a time.

As you flatten them, the outer ends will move away from the insulated part that holds them up, and, you will have to bend them in tighter so they don't fall off....


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

John, That is a beauty.. Very original look, yes I know, old look.. I find it attractive as a toy train. It may not have had all the gizmos of the new stuff but it looks beautiful. The last picture is super.


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

That particular CV model and color is my personal favorite. It restored one in the same color scheme. I love the engine.

Dan


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

I've had some chances to flatten them, I took the pickups out, flattened them, then used pliers to bend the holding parts to put them back in, and it slips less, but it's still slipping. What should I do to bend them the right way?


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

400E Blue Comet said:


> I've had some chances to flatten them, I took the pickups out, flattened them, then used pliers to bend the holding parts to put them back in, and it slips less, but it's still slipping. What should I do to bend them the right way?


Sounds like something else going on there.
are the drivers actually slipping or could it possibly be that the axles are slipping inside the driver. 
Dan


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

Panther said:


> Sounds like something else going on there.
> are the drivers actually slipping or could it possibly be that the axles are slipping inside the driver.
> Dan


The wheels seem okay to me- If I try to rotate them in opposite directions it won't work, so neither of them can be slipping on the axle. I've wondered if it could be that the actual wheels themselves don't have enough friction, but just rubbing them with my finger, they feel like they've got a good amount of friction on their surface. When I flattened the contacts more it helped, but the slipping hasn't quite stopped. It's most noticeable when it's going over the turn on the oval farthest from the transformer (It's a pretty small oval though).


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

Does this happen when the locomotive is run by itself ?
Dan


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Although fairly rare, it's not completely unknown for the armature to become loose on it's own shaft. This will cause a problem similar to what you are describing.....


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

Panther said:


> Does this happen when the locomotive is run by itself ?
> Dan


Yes- When I push it along that track section there might be some slipping, but otherwise this occurs when I run the locomotive and tender (Sometimes just the locomotive) by themselves.



BWA said:


> Although fairly rare, it's not completely unknown for the armature to become loose on it's own shaft. This will cause a problem similar to what you are describing.....


I think it's the third rail pickups- when I flattened them more it lessened the problem and when it slips I can see the wheels moving, but they're visibly slipping and not moving the train as much until it gets to a non-slipping part on the track.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

How many cars are you trying to pull???

Make sure all the wheels/axles of any cars you pull are well lubed and, roll easily.....

Loco wheels slip slightly on the curves under any condition, because they are rigidly mounted to the same axle, with no differential between them....

Can you post a video, so we can see what's happening??


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

I've tried it with none and it still happens. The problem does seem to be occuring mostly on this one curve, however none of my other Marx trains slip, not even on the curve.


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

I don't know if this will have any bearing on the problem.
When I rebuild a Marx motor, and install them back into the locomotive. One test that I make sure they all pass is this. I will place the completed locomotive on the track, place my index finger on the back of the cab. APPLYING NO DOWNWARD PRESSURE, I will push the locomotive without power along the track. I make sure ALL drivers turn freely. If they don't, I will inspect, adjust, and lubricate until they do. 
As far as I know only two things will make drivers SLIP. One, some foreign lube is on them, or something is holding them up from complete contact with the rails. One other thing, are the rails themselves CLEAN, and free of oil. If you over lubricate the drive mechanism, some of the lube main be getting onto the drivers. This is my current thought. 

Dan


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Just a few thoughts. I've bought some new slide shoes for a lionel once , they were not correct and nothing I could do corrected it. I ended up purchasing new ones from a reputable source and it worked fine. So maybe its time to replace the pu shoe? Marx by nature are noisy growlers so the noise might be perfectly normal. The older stuff also needs some power to get going. So one moment its standing still, the next the wheels are spinning , then boom its a rocket going over the edge. Ask me how I know this, I restored a torpedo loco and was testing it out. Lets just say it lived up to its name Try it under a load, add some cars or weight. If it works like that adding some stick on weights or some tire balancing weights, lead sinkers might just fix it good luck.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Afterthought , is it the same part of the track where this happens? And check the gauge of the wheels. So there even and not binding on the curves.


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

It happens the most on one part of the track, but it can slip a little bit on other places too. Buying new shoes might work, but it would be kind of a waste to get rid of the current shoes since they were already replaced with new shoes when I got it.


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

If it only happens on one part of the track, and you have other parts of the track that are of the same radius, I would look at the track and not the locomotive. If it's a problem with the locomotive it should act the same on section of the track that are the same.

Dan


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## 400E Blue Comet (Jul 11, 2014)

It's probably a little bit of both- While it starts to slip on that part of the track for some reason, other Marx trains don't.


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## Dieseler (Jan 29, 2014)

I had similar problem it turned out wheel was loose on the axle and could be spun on its axle by holding its pairing wheel.
Also do the wheel pairs have noticeably more side to side movement comparing them to your other marx engines.


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