# Dwarf Signal Position



## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

To all, 

I have a main line where trains run in both directions which has turnouts going to a siding. I would like to put dwarf signals in showing the position of the turnout. I have heard that the signal should be facing the approaching side. My question is should I have a signal on both sides of the turnout incase there is a train approaching from the opposite side? This would place two signals on every turnout. 

Thank you
Joe G


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

You should have signals for all approaches to the turnout. That would make it three signals.


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

D&J Railroad said:


> You should have signals for all approaches to the turnout. That would make it three signals.


Ahhh... having three makes more sense! Thanks for the clarity and help.


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## Mark R. (Jan 26, 2013)

A short siding to an industry wouldn't have a signal on it.

Mark.


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## JoeG (Feb 3, 2013)

Mark R. said:


> A short siding to an industry wouldn't have a signal on it.
> 
> Mark.


Thats good, it will reduce my wire needed.


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## Overkast (Jan 16, 2015)

Mark R. said:


> A short siding to an industry wouldn't have a signal on it.
> 
> Mark.


Would there be a signal _ON_ the siding however, reflecting the mainline status??


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## Mark R. (Jan 26, 2013)

Overkast said:


> Would there be a signal _ON_ the siding however, reflecting the mainline status??


Normally, the only time a siding would have a dwarf signal would be if the entire train is capable of entering the siding to work, leaving the main open. That would be large complexes like automobile plants or refineries. There would be the possibility of the switch to be re-aligned to the main to allow another train to pass. The dwarf would be needed to indicate turn-out alignment and possibly interlock with occupancy of the main.

Otherwise, when working smaller sidings, the rest of the train is left on the main, the engineer obviously knows he has control of the main. Turnout position indicator is not needed because he had just entered it, and with the rest of the train still occupying the main, there would be no logical reason to throw the turnout against the siding while in it.

Mark.


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## dave1905 (Jul 7, 2013)

Two approaches. If all you want is a switch indicator, then just put a dwarf on the siding where the operators can see it.

If you are wanting a prototypical signal then a whole lot of things have to be considered. What is the authority on the main track? What is the other track really? Who operates the switch, the dispatcher, operators, or the train crews? 

A siding is a train used for meeting and passing trains. An industry track is not a "siding" from a rules perspective. If the track is a siding and the dispatcher controls the switches then there would be signals. If the track is not a siding, a meeting or passing point, then there might not be a signal. No real need. A "hand operated" switch will always be lined for the main unless the train is using it. If a train is using a switch in hand operation then the train moves on hand signals from the crew and not signal indication. If you are not going to move on signal indication, then why would you need a signal?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

In the old days of railroading the switch stands had
a kerosene lamp with red/green lenses. When the
switchman moved the points the lamp turned it's
green lens to the direction of traffic. I suppose the
dwarf signals could be the modern day switch stand 
lamp.

Don


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

If you're using low current stall motor switch machines you could put a bipolar LED in series with one of the motor leads to use as the indicator. You probably could not put 2 LED's in series as you may get too much of a voltage drop. If there is a resistor in series with the switch machine such as with Switch Masters (typically 1200 Ohm) you may have to reduce it to get things to work better ( I use a 1K resistor in series with the motor and LED that's on the panel for the indicator.


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