# "Once Upon A Time In The West" 1/24 scale



## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi guys ! I am new to this forum but not to making models especially dioramas.
Cheers! John.










This is the diorama that I am planning from the film by Sergio Leone.










This is the locomotive that I will be using.


This diorama will be for me! Long before other models came into my life their was my American Flyer train ,that I played with for years just on the floor, more than 60 years ago now.
Sergio gave an interview once and told of how his interest in the old west was developed in his childhood probably about 10 years before mine.Like he did I went to the movies and sucked in all that old west mythology,then came home and played out the scenes with my buds or my model train.
As I reach my 70's it seems that I want to re-connect with my long gone childhood and play with my trains again.

Because I will be working in G scale I have changed my plans and probably do a Sweetwater Station diorama.The boardwalk ,the train and no figures.This will be strictly a mood piece with no direct storyline.I plan it as a tribute to my favorite film and its director.
I just plan to use the sound of the idling train with the music from the film dubbed in. Maybe even build it into a box with a DVD player dedicated just to this.also may include some mood lighting as an evening scene.Any way we will see what develops.Anyone who has seen the film can create their own storyline in their imagination.

My photobucket:
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/JohnReid/


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

*Great Theme!!*

Hey John,
Welcome to the Forum. I have the special edition Box set of "Once Upon a Time" and just love this movie to death. Both my wife and I are huge Leone fans and we also have "The Good,the bad, and the ugly, A Fist full of Dollars and A Few Dollars More. Anyway if you don't have Figures at least have a Pinup of Claudia Cardinale....VVAVVAVOOM! The end of the movie when Jason Robards tells her to go down an give the boys a drink and if one of them smacks her on her behind just make like its nothin....and then when he leaves he smacks her on the behind and says "Make like its nothin thats cool. Anyway good luck with the project and keep us posted Reckers would be the one to consult because he is our resident....ahem "G"enius!:laugh::laugh::thumbsup:


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi! Thank you.I have that DVD too.It is a great research tool for doing this diorama.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Awesome building facade ... very realistic.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks! This is a 1/16th scale Victorian backyard that I am doing for the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa.The same techniques would work for G or HO scale trains.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

JohnReid said:


> Thanks! This is a 1/16th scale Victorian backyard that I am doing for the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa.The same techniques would work for G or HO scale trains.


Welcome to the site John.
You say G or HO why wouldn't it work for O or S or N?


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Welcome to the site John.
> You say G or HO why wouldn't it work for O or S or N?


I guess I should have said all scales but the bricks would get a little hard to cut out individually.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

JohnReid said:


> I guess I should have said all scales but the bricks would get a little hard to cut out individually.



You mean to tell me you cut each one individually?:thumbsup:


I didn't know that, I though it was a sheet of something.

It should be OK for O and S if you can do it for HO.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

You gotta love this stuff!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I will be using this unserviceable kit for doing a mock-up of the G scale composition.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I am no genius at math ,does anyone know the scale factor from HO to G scale. 1/87 to 1/24.In other words if I took a measurement on a HO scale model by what factor would I have to multiply that factor to get G scale? Thanks!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I figure that this would be about the length of the train as depicted in the film.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## Boston&Maine (Dec 19, 2007)

JohnReid said:


> I am no genius at math ,does anyone know the scale factor from HO to G scale. 1/87 to 1/24.In other words if I took a measurement on a HO scale model by what factor would I have to multiply that factor to get G scale? Thanks!


You simply take (1/24) and divide it by (1/87), which give you a factor of 3.625 

Test: real life 50' (600") piece of rolling stock

In HO scale, that would be 600" / 87, or 6.8966"
In G scale, that would be 600" / 24, or 25"
6.8966" in HO scale x 3.625 = 25" in G scale


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Thank you very much! this old almost 70 year old brain doesn't seem to work like it use to!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I hate 1:1 scale carpentry and actually am quite lousy at it.I will be glad to get this over with and get back to real modeling.I just don't know how the RR guys do it with all their complicated layouts and such.I have saved the worst for last,figuring out how the roof lines will meet in the corner.I will do it in foam board first and use it as a pattern for the plywood roof.
The framework for the facades is just about finished and I can start adding the 1/4" plywood.The frame is very strong as it is ,so the plywood will be there mostly just to cover in the area.The back will be 2 pieces, screwed on for easy access to the lighting etc....A small hinged door is also an option for bulb changes.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

JohnReid said:


> I just don't know how the RR guys do it with all their complicated layouts and such ...
> I will do it in foam board first and use it as a pattern for the plywood roof.


Nothing wrong with that at all ... some of the best carpenters and cabinet makers I've seen rely heavily on using dummy patterns and templates to get their finished pieces just right.

Sounds to me like you're on just the right track!

Good luck,

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks TJ, I'm going to need it !


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## supermunk (Sep 16, 2009)

JohnReid said:


> Thanks! This is a 1/16th scale Victorian backyard that I am doing for the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa.The same techniques would work for G or HO scale trains.


You work for the Canadian Avation museum?


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

You might say that but this is strictly a labor of love,something that I have done in my retirement.I donate them to the museum and they should be on display sometime in Feb next year.


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## supermunk (Sep 16, 2009)

JohnReid said:


> You might say that but this is strictly a labor of love,something that I have done in my retirement.I donate them to the museum and they should be on display sometime in Feb next year.


Cool! I go there at least once a month and it's awesome!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I have over 7,500 pics in my photobucket on models of all kinds and model building.Unfortunately some confusion has evolved over the years and even I have difficulty finding stuff sometimes.I plan in the future to put some order in all of this and post " how to's....." with the appropriate pictures.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Lighting is extremely important to the success of a diorama in any scale.To date I have completed 3 large hangar scenes with overhead lighting which has made things quite easy.The backyard dio that I am working on now is mostly an outdoor scene with lighting behind the windows of the brick facade.

Painting figures will be more difficult with just the natural light and no shadows to work with this time.I only plan one figure in this diorama.

The lighting in the pic above is just a 60Watt bare bulb in a hand held lighting fixture.By moving the light around I can play with the shadows to make things pop out like in a relief carving.Of course a lot of these effects are lost in daylight.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John,

Excellent point about lighting ... the benefits of which are clearly shown in how it enhances the realism of your photo above. Well done!

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

More and more I have come to believe that photography and the way your stuff is presented is just as important as the diorama itself,especially dioramas of the storyboard type.The frame, painting and lighting are just as essential in 3D as 2D art.Even "how to..." pics are more interesting when properly presented.
I have been fooling around in photobucket and photoshop as you can see.
Layering is something that I am trying to learn now so that I can have just the frame saved and add different pictures and text to it.In the meantime the above is an example of what I mean.
When my building days are over,I plan to do an on-line book of pictures and "how to's......" for my modeling buds on the internet.The best part is that it will be free!
The way I look at it is this,prior to having the internet I spend a lot of time and money tracking all this information down(I have been modeling for over 60 years)now I have all this at my doorstep ,it is time to give something back!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Changed my mind again.I thing that I will go back to the opening scene from the film.It fits more into my style with a lot of old stuff around.Old wood,old shack,old windmill etc.. that I can weather to my hearts content.No figures just the sound of a puffing loco and squeaky windmill with dubbed in music from the film.
I will draw up a floor plan and start the mock-up next in HO scale.

My photobucket:
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/JohnReid/


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

John I asked,

You mean to tell me you cut each one individually?


I didn't know that, I though it was a sheet of something.

It should be OK for O and S if you can do it for HO. 

And you answered,





JohnReid said:


> You gotta love this stuff!



Do....you..........cut......each......brick...... individually???????


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Sure do !


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

JohnReid said:


> Sure do !


_amn that's a lot of cutting!:thumbsup:


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Like I said ,ya gotta love this stuff!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

My next diorama.
I am doing the opening scene from the film "once upon a time in the west"in G or 1/24th scale.This will be a static diorama and I will be building the kit "the general" as the locomotive.I would like to build a passenger car,box and a flat car if I can find one to modify or kit bash or even build from plans if necessary.I would also consider old unserviceable shells or anything that requires restoration,in fact I prefer it that way for static models.

In the film there is an old box car converted into a temporarily station and a water tower and windmill that I also want to kitbash or build from scratch if need be.The rest would be standard track and old railway ties or new ones slightly weathered.Any advice you could give me would be really appreciated,I am especially looking for fellow modelers who are also into the old west genre to communicate with as I am a newbie to RR dioramas although I have been modeling for 60 years.Cheers! John.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

You know it is funny how these creative seeds are planted in your brain.When I walked out of the movie theater 40 years ago after seeing this movie for the first time,I knew something had changed,that I had experienced something that really hit home.I couldn't quite figure it out at the time but I new that I had just witnessed a great piece of Art.I have seen the movie many times since but it was only when I got into storyboard dioramas that I really began to appreciate it .The genre I had always loved since I was a kid, "The Old West", but this film was different from anything I had seen before.
I bought the special collector's edition DVD of the film and began to really study it this time.
This edition not only has the movie itself but you can program it for a running commentary on every scene by knowledgeable film people.
There is also 3 documentaries included.
Maybe its because I am an old fart now but for me this is a wonderful tool that I would of never dreamed of years ago.A university course on film making in a box. "WOW"
When studying this film I sometimes just run it with sound,sometimes without sound and sometimes just the sound alone.I freeze frame compositions that I like and note lighting ,composition etc...I take pics with my digital camera right from my computer screen for research purposes.Never before have artists had all these wonderful tools at hand whenever they need them.It kinda blows this old fart away!Home based artists have never had it so good!Now we too can learn from the masters in an exciting new way.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Things to consider

The General locomotive kit is 1/25th scale.The closest thing to that is G or 1/24 scale.

The General was originally designed for 5 foot track but changed to narrow gauge in the 1890's

When I get the kit I will have to measure what is on there now.If it is G can I use LGB Durago and Silverton rolling stock? What about their other rolling stock is it all narrow gauge?Is it possible to change the trucks only to G scale?If not then I could modify the locomotive I guess.

I don't mind using a little artistic license with all of this after all Sergio's trains in the film were Spanish dressed up to look American.

Any ideas? thanks.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Because of all the confusion as to what G scale really is and because I need civil war cars at a reasonable price, I have decided to use Bachmann kits for the rolling stock.I can't easily modify the locomotive so it will have to be the cars.
When I have everything I will put it all together and see how it looks and modify the cars if need be.
I don't plan to put in any figures so scale will be not so obvious anyway.Worse comes to worse I will call it artistic license.
Speaking about artistic license this diorama will be my tribute to Sergio Leone and the art of making film.He used lots of it in his film and still succeeded artistically in creating the best old west film ever made.Not a bad example I would dare to say. My diorama will be more about the art of telling a story than recording history.
This story will be the simplest that I have ever done.No figures just the train and wooden structures will be modeled.The story will be centered around an empty directors chair with Sergio Leone written across the back.I thought about adding a camera and tripod but even that seems too much and it is not really required for this piece.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

As it is planned now the train would be about 62" long ,the same length of the diorama that I am presently building in 1/16th scale.I find that this is getting a little big for me to haul around now so I am looking to reduce the size a bit.I think that I will reduce the length by using the locomotive and tender and a combo passenger/baggage car only.I will start with this and add to it later if I want.I build my dioramas in modules that are joined together with screws only ,so I will still have the option later to add to the scene if it seems necessary.

I will start by building my HO mock-up and see how it looks!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi guys ! now that my commitment to the museum is finished I am back full steam on "The General."


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've just been admonished in another forum for calling any Civil War era 4-4-0 locomotive a "General". Apparently, there is actually only one "General", it was the name of a specific locomotive.

A number of model companies have taken license to calling any and all of their 4-4-0 locomotives a General, is this a model of the real General?


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I've just been admonished in another forum for calling any Civil War era 4-4-0 locomotive a "General". Apparently, there is actually only one "General", it was the name of a specific locomotive.
> 
> A number of model companies have taken license to calling any and all of their 4-4-0 locomotives a General, is this a model of the real General?


It is supposed to be,as for the rest call it artistic license.Cheers!


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Where you see the kleenex boxes is where I plan to put a saloon facade with the actors dressing room within.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

In the movies smaller scale models were often build (and still are witness "Titanic" as a example) and used for forced perspective purposes.This module will contain an HO RR model which I will modify and put in a corner with a backdrop from Monument Valley.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John,

Great to have you back! Your detailing and custom projects are always superb. Nice to look over your shoulder again!

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks TJ ! now I can devote my time to one build only.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I get these at the dollar store.They are made of high quality plywood and are only 2 bucks.To make the same thing with hobby store wood it would cost very much more.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I am getting a little tired of making fences so I have started to do some serious research on old west facades and buildings and their construction techniques.
I will for the first two make the whole building as it will serve two purposes that of a facade and an actual dressing rooms for the actors.I first plan just to do the exteriors and use a sign to indicate what they are "Actors Dressing Rooms."
I will light them behind curtains and shades only but leave access to the interiors if I later want to add furnishings.I am already planning a second module, to be screwed to this one, containing the facades only.(next winter's project)Old west stuff seems to be pretty simple construction with few exterior decorations but lots of doors and windows, which is actually a plus for storyboarding using signs and stuff in the windows and doors for example.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I am beginning to see some progress on my saloon facade/dressing rooms building.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Great use of the tissue boxes! Cheap, easy, strong. I like it!

Gotta spring that plank back down on the car roof, right?!? 

Cheers,

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Great use of the tissue boxes! Cheap, easy, strong. I like it!
> 
> Gotta spring that plank back down on the car roof, right?!?
> 
> ...


Hi TJ ! I get a lot of stuff from the dollar store.They finished wood products are made from top quality wood and very cheap.Hobby stores would cost an arm and a leg for the plywood alone.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

wrong pic.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

The plywood is ground level,one level up is the future boardwalk that will be completed after the posts are in.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I want to try something different with this diorama by adding some audio/visual stuff myself.This time the storyline will be presented in a little different way.Instead of step by step pictures accompanied by an audio text as planned by the museum ,this time I plan to do my own .
Just a few short years ago this option was not available to me but with all the miniaturization of electronics today and the relatively cheap price I think that it could quite easily be done.
These two saloon boxes will be used to house the electronics and diorama lighting equipment.Facing outwards I plan to install either slides or scenes from the movie itself with good quality miniature speakers,if I can get permission to do so from the copyright holders otherwise I will have to come up with a plan 'B'.It will be a donation to a museum for educational purposes or for my own private use so maybe I will get lucky.
Plan 'B' will probably be to contact a few individuals that I see on You Tube and get their permission to use their videos and music.
Sounds like fun,something different for a change.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I don't remember where I got this totem (or house post because it has a flat back)but as you can see from the chip on the base it is real black soapstone.It is not signed so I don't know who or what made it.It can't be very valuable so I plan to include it somewhere in the diorama/layout. I haven't quite decided how to finish it.It has a polished surface so the only thing that I can think of is that in real life that would be a shiny paint surface.Old totem poles are usually grey(ceder turns grey with time)totally or sometimes with remnants of paint.I don't want to paint it as a modern totem as the bright colors would be too distracting for the viewer.
I want to include it because the native people were a big part of the old west theme though not in this particular movie .I am planning an old prop yard at the rear of the diorama with fake horses etc..so I will probably put it there.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I am planning to add to the storyline a bit by adding a bit more history to the diorama.This once was an active movie set that was converted into a theme park that has since failed and has been abandoned.This will allow me more freedom for weathering the piece in my own style.For scale I may dress up one of the figures as a mannequin that has also fallen into disrepair.I am also thinking about doing a small scale model within this model for the props yard.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Well,I have changed my mind again.It is now back to the theme park idea.The props yard and no figures is just boring,especially for kids and after all this is why I do this stuff,for the kids and of course for the kid in all of us too.
Now I am planning at least 20 figures in this diorama,maybe more and a complete HO scale old west town with a few figures also.
Yesterday I built up my first HO structure in wood,an outhouse(well you gotta start somewhere and every old west town needs them).
1/87 is as small as I have ever gone and I kinda like it for a change of pace.
Miniature towns are very popular in Europe especially in England and Germany and the kids seem to love them.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I like the "live character" theme park idea better. Having people in a scene -- especially those captured "in motion" -- really helps to bring the layout to life.

Cheers,

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

This is where I am as of today.The lower right hand side of the pic is where the HO removable module will be.There will eventually be 15 buildings and facades in there.The future N scale module could be attached to any of the four sides by simply screwing it on.The trains movement should really be an eye catcher.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Now where the hell do I start ?


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I am planning a small N scale RR layout.From what I understand 2'X4' is about minimum.Any ideas on where I could find some examples ? This is my fist layout since I was 10 years old about 62 years ago.Need help ! thanks Cheers! John.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The Thor site has some "canned" layout ideas ... about half-way down the page, you see a section for HO and N with various links ...

http://www.thortrains.net/

Cheers,

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I am planning 3 different modules for this piece.The G scale part will be finished in detail and weathered like an old abandoned movie set or ghost town.The HO scale part will be a removable module of an old west town and modeled to look like a model,in other words not as detailed or lifelike.The N scale part will be an add on module, fastened to one side of the perimeter, but I haven't yet decided which one.It will be an operating ,shelf type, old west train layout made to look like a G scale train(in real life) with G scale figures wandering through it.There will also be a old west movie poster area and a G scale area for a couple of fake horses.The horses will be hollowed out to look like paper mache ones with a sign nearby saying "Don't feed the horses",fake horses were often used as props in old west movies.

This piece has now evolved into a theme park idea (circa 1960's) It is a fantasy piece using lots of artistic license.( but isn't that what movies and models are all about,a suspension of your own disbelief ?) The core story is still about the Italian director Sergio Leone and his love of the western genre and it is dedicated to his memory.

Once Upon a time.........

My photobucket:

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/JohnReid/

I am a man of few words but lots of pics



I quit drinking beer because the download was taking longer than the upload !


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

I kinda like this model within a model idea for a theme park.Finishing Morton's car with just furniture would be a little boring for kids I imagine but seeing another locomotive on display would be more fun.Walt Disney did this in his theme park and it was a hit with the kids both young and old.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I like the model within a model idea, too. It really brings a person into the scene, and challenges their thought on perspective and size. In a way, it shrinks the viewer down to the larger model size (subconciously), and lets them thin of the smaller model as a very large scale creation!

Great trickery!

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> I like the model within a model idea, too. It really brings a person into the scene, and challenges their thought on perspective and size. In a way, it shrinks the viewer down to the larger model size (subconciously), and lets them thin of the smaller model as a very large scale creation!
> 
> Great trickery!
> 
> TJ


Glad you like it TJ !


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

As a kid I always loved the story of Gulliver's Travels.


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

What is an old west diorama/layout without a couple of these guys ! C|


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

The HO old west town is coming along.I didn't want to do it as a ghost town because there is all ready a lot of grey in the piece and I felt it needed a little color. C|


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi everybody ! Great day today as my wife will soon be home after her second knee replacement surgery .Everything went well. I will be re-focusing my energy for awhile now to help to nurse her back to health.I am planning to spend the time I have now concentrating on storyboarding and a little research.
The "Once upon a time.... diorama is going well but I have changed my mind again and am going back to the original concept of a movie set.I think that it is better to tell one story well than get things too confusing for the viewer.I know that it seems that I can't make up my mind, and your right about that, but that is the fun of doing this in real time rather than presenting a competed piece and then pretending that I knew where I was going all the time.
Cheers ! John.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hope your wife has a speedy recovery, John.

TJ


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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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## JohnReid (Aug 10, 2010)




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