# N scale (older) Atlas issues



## Matison (12 mo ago)

I picked up a non-working Atlas diesel locomotive for a low price as parts/not working. I wanted to get it running again, and found that the old motor was bad. I found a suitable motor that was the perfect fit. 

I was almost done with the motor conversion, and all I had left to do was to solder two wires, and reattach the motor. As I slipped the motor into the frame, the white metal casting fell apart right at the motor mount area. There was no force involved in my repair work, and I’m kind of down, now that I have a useless locomotive that won’t even work as a dummy.

Has anyone had any luck with soldering or glueing a broken locomotive frame?


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

I’ve tried but no luck as zink rot has raised its ugly head as late as 2008 life like locos also . I found this out as I thought it went out in the 60-70’s. But can’t solder it and epoxy won’t hold it and then the shell won’t fit on. Best to look for another chassis as atlas e units can be found about anywhere as it’s just more money I know.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Are you sure it’s an E unit? The photos show that the front truck has 2 axles, and the rear truck has 3 axles…..that’s not an E unit….

It looks more like a Fairbanks-Morse C-Liner (FM CPA16-5)…..










Of course, a photo of the body of Matison’s locomotive would confirm what is is….


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I have one of those that actually sort of works. So, the metal frame is zinc and it corrodes. I gather from this discussion that the inner bodies are not still made of zinc. That's very inteesting.


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

That is a c liner. Thought it was e unit from chassis profile.


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

I’m not having much luck with locomotives. I am also not sure of the difference between C and E liners. I can tell you that the bottom of the weight says Atlas Riverossi. It’s the picture on the left 

The middle pic is an Atlas steam. It works, but will not stay on Kato Unitrack. 

The one on the right is an AHM (I think). I was hoping that the Atlas








and AHM had similar frames. The AHM works, but has a plastic chassis, It hesitates a lot, and has very little power.


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

pmcgurin said:


> I have one of those that actually sort of works. So, the metal frame is zinc and it corrodes. I gather from this discussion that the inner bodies are not still made of zinc. That's very inteesting.
> [/QUOTE





Matison said:


> I’m not having much luck with locomotives. I am also not sure of the difference between C and E liners. I can tell you that the bottom of the weight says Atlas Riverossi. It’s the picture on the left
> 
> The middle pic is an Atlas steam. It works, but will not stay on Kato Unitrack.
> 
> ...


E liners have 3 axle trucks where as the c liner has 2 axle front 3 axle rear trucks. 
and as far as the atlas loco goes the wheels may be out of gauge , and if it derails on curves or turnouts or just any random spot.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Viperjim1 said:


> E liners have 3 axle trucks where as the c liner has 2 axle front 3 axle rear trucks.
> and as far as the atlas loco goes the wheels may be out of gauge , and if it derails on curves or turnouts or just any random spot.


Yes, my Atlas C-Liner slows almost to a stop on curves and is jerky at best.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Viperjim1 said:


> That is a c liner. Thought it was e unit from chassis profile.


Exactly as I said in post #3….the number of axles is the key…..not the chassis profile….which, by the way, that picture was not a profile view…..


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

I have found that *most* (not necessarily all) older N-scale locos, no matter what brand, are definitely worth their weight as fishing sinkers.

Or maybe as roundhouse queens, if you're not into fishing.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Unless your sinker disintegrates from corrosion and your bait floats back up.

As an IT manager I kept a number of curiosities from the years: data cards, eight-inch floppies, IBM 360 System Reference cards, etc. Why not an old, noisy Atlas C-Liner? Good sinker to be.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Matison said:


> I’m not having much luck with locomotives. I am also not sure of the difference between C and E liners. I can tell you that the bottom of the weight says Atlas Riverossi. It’s the picture on the left
> 
> The middle pic is an Atlas steam. It works, but will not stay on Kato Unitrack.
> 
> ...


Matison;

Seeing these old N-scale locos brings back memories for me, but not good ones! They were lucky to run at all, even when they were new. 
As a long-time N-scaler, I still have some of these paperweights sitting in pieces, in boxes, but I don't know why. I threw most of them in the trash where they belong. Do yourself a favor. Instead of buying a bunch of cheap locos, and trying to make them run, save up and buy one Kato locomotive. It will actually work right.

Traction Fan


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

My suggestion is to purchase DCC ready locomotives. This way if you run on DC for now, you can convert to DCC later. This way there's less frustration. The cost is higher in the beginning but in the long run it evens out by the time you figure in conversion costs of older equipment.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

traction fan said:


> Matison;
> 
> Seeing these old N-scale locos brings back memories for me, but not good ones! They were lucky to run at all, even when they were new.
> As a long-time N-scaler, I still have some of these paperweights sitting in pieces, in boxes, but I don't know why. I threw most of them in the trash where they belong. Do yourself a favor. Instead of buying a bunch of cheap locos, and trying to make them run, save up and buy one Kato locomotive. It will actually work right.
> ...


I agree with this. The most common reason that people get out of this hobby is that they can't get trains to run, and you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot before you even try laying track. These old locos AREN'T bargains, despite what you pay for them. Save your pennies and get some quality units.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

I agree that anyone would be better off buying DCC ready locos, leaving the option open to go with DCC later even if you use DC now. You need to be careful also not to buy even good DC locos if they are not DCC ready. There are many DC-only-capable locos out there even at high prices that might lead you to think they are DCC ready when they are not. An example would be a mid-90s Kato F3 CN or B&O, for example. Some of these can cosr plenty but won't take a decoder. Some Kato F3s will take a decoder, some will not. You should research the products.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

The old adage of getting what you pay for especially applies to buying any sort of used locomotive. Especially on eBay. 

I will buy used rolling stock that is NOS or is otherwise listed as like new with plenty of detailed photos, but I will not ever buy a used locomotive unless it is from a shop with a return privilege...and never from eBay.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> The old adage of getting what you pay for especially applies to buying any sort of used locomotive. Especially on eBay.
> 
> I will buy used rolling stock that is NOS or is otherwise listed as like new with plenty of detailed photos, but I will not ever buy a used locomotive unless it is from a shop with a return privilege...and never from eBay.


Well, my son wanted a dummy loco for a side track in his yard, and for that, I did purchase a used, "non-functioning" loco for $20 on eBay. Funny thing was, it actually didn't run too badly, once I cleaned out all the hardened grease from the worm gear. But I'd definitely call that the exception rather than the rule.

Nevertheless, we snipped the motor leads, and so a dummy it is.


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Well, my son wanted a dummy loco for a side track in his yard, and for that, I did purchase a used, "non-functioning" loco for $20 on eBay. Funny thing was, it actually didn't run too badly, once I cleaned out all the hardened grease from the worm gear. But I'd definitely call that the exception rather than the rule.
> 
> Nevertheless, we snipped the motor leads, and so a dummy it is.


I recommend checking out spookshow.net, it's a good place to get a honest review of locomotives and rolling stock you wish to purchase.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the spookshow.net url. A lot of helpful info there.


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

pmcgurin said:


> Thanks for the spookshow.net url. A lot of helpful info there.
> [/QUOTE
> No problem. Helping others to learn is why we are here


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

Thanks everyone for the good advice to stop buying cheap junk. I’ll buy less, and save for quality pieces. I had an uncle who told me a long time ago that the old locomotives were valuable treasures. I now know that it is not the case.

I spend a lot of time on Spookshow. The problem that I had, especially in the beginning was that I would look up the model and manufacturer of a locomotive that I was interested in buying, but I kept getting the age of the unit confused. Only the outside of the train is shown, so I have no idea what is inside.

I would think that the unit for sale was a newer locomotive The reviews on spookshow sounded great, but they were for different model years than what I was looking to buy.

I’m finally getting the feel for which units are newer, and which are old, but sometimes I can’t tell from the pictures. I will buy my next one from a dealer.


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## 5kidsdad (Nov 28, 2021)

Matison said:


> Thanks everyone for the good advice to stop buying cheap junk. I’ll buy less, and save for quality pieces. I had an uncle who told me a long time ago that the old locomotives were valuable treasures. I now know that it is not the case.
> 
> I spend a lot of time on Spookshow. The problem that I had, especially in the beginning was that I would look up the model and manufacturer of a locomotive that I was interested in buying, but I kept getting the age of the unit confused. Only the outside of the train is shown, so I have no idea what is inside.
> 
> ...


If you shop on eBay, don't be afraid to contact the seller to see if they can send you other pictures. Example, close ups, pictures of boxes or and anything else that may help you decide to bid. If the seller doesn't want to, than write down the name and refuse to buy from them.


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## jeffreyfleetwood (11 mo ago)

Matison said:


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> View attachment 578254
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> ...


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

If I were going to try to make a repair like this I might try to use something like Liquid Steel, which I once used to repair a steering wheel on a Pontiac GTO. However, I have an old Atlas C-Liner that does run, but at full power it runs slowly and growls its way around the track.


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

[
“If you shop on eBay, don't be afraid to contact the seller to see if they can send you other pictures.”
[/QUOTE]

That’s a good idea. I wish sellers would be upfront about what they are selling. It’s not right to present something without all of the pertinent information. Too many sellers hide the details: blurry photos, lack of info on problems, etc…


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Not to be nit picky…

An E Unit or E series locomotive is a 6 axle passenger locomotive built by EMC/EMD.
A C-Liner is a locomotive built by Fairbanks-Morse in three configurations, 4 axle cabbed and 4 axle cabless for freight, while passenger service units had a 4 axle front truck and a 3 axle rear truck. Technically speaking it was an A1A rear truck so sort of counts as a 2 axle or as a 3 axle depending on which way you look at it (total axles vs powered axles).

There is no such thing as an “E-liner” nor a “C unit.”


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I'm glad I found Spookshow when I was looking for locomotives, he has saved me a lot of money on duds. Price and pictures aren't always a good indicator on ebay, Some believe that anything old is worth a fortune, and/or it may look or be described as never used because that unit never ran from the day it was manufactured. To help determine age, look at the couplers, if they are the hook type, it's likely an older unit. The Spook tells you how to distinguish the year (edition) if it matters.


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## MitchR (Sep 27, 2020)

pmcgurin said:


> Unless your sinker disintegrates from corrosion and your bait floats back up.
> 
> As an IT manager I kept a number of curiosities from the years: data cards, eight-inch floppies, IBM 360 System Reference cards, etc. Why not an old, noisy Atlas C-Liner? Good sinker to be.


Perhaps you’ve saved an 8088 IBM Card Sorter or an 029 Card Punch?

👏👏👏👏👏❤


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

MitchR said:


> Perhaps you’ve saved an 8088 IBM Card Sorter or an 029 Card Punch?
> 
> 👏👏👏👏👏❤


No, I had to downsize. Still have my IBM 360 COBOL text from 1970, though.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

pmcgurin said:


> Still have my IBM 360 COBOL text from 1970, though.


You make me feel so young! I first learned BASIC in 1974 (punched cards in, 14"-wide "green bar" out); and a FORTRAN variant called WATFIV in 1977.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I started college as a computer science major in 1983. I took Basic, PL-1, Fortran, Cobol and a couple others I don't remember, but it was Assembly Language that made me decide to change majors to Accounting


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

The ironies of life. I majored in Spanish and my advisor suggested I take computer science courses. It was IBM Assembly language that made me decide on an IT career.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Trying to understand hexadecimal... I was either doing too many drugs, or not enough... not sure.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Math is by no means my strong area. Math itself wasn’t too bad… I mean, I’ve got fingers and toes. Multiplication always had some strange things though… specifically when a zero is involved. I’m a practical person. 2x0 and 0x2 should be two different answers. If I have zero apples, multiplied by two, I still have zero apples for obvious reasons. But if I start with two apples and multiply by zero, I still have two apples. So something doesn’t jive there.

I became dismayed when, math class and english class started conspiring against me. Apples divided by Three does NOT equal Xylophones…. Not in any reality! I can get a paring knife and prove it!! Something seriously dubious about that. I do recall learning how to calculate a specific type of equation, e.g. (2 x A) + (6 x B). The method taught was called FOIL; first, outer, inner, last. Yeah, it works, but it is pretty grammatical in approach.

Geometry, that makes sense. I use it often to good effect. But then they had to throw english in again. They can call it hexi-decimal, but it’s still shapes and punctuation.

I break out in a sweat wondering what they’ll mix in next, Science and Art class? Yellow Snow multiplied by Orange Clouds equals Four? I think not, friend. My answer to that equation is “equals yellow rain on my head.”

Sorry for interjecting a completely different, if not grounded and sensible view. I determined this was why teachers stood in the halls between classes quietly conversing in hushed tones. They were not monitoring for unruly behavior. They were trying to figure out new ways to abuse unrelated subjects; Spanish divided by Gym equals… Home Economics!

I apologize for my abundantly practical mind. 0x2=0, but 2x0=2, not 0. I always did better in Ar…. Schisse, it just now occurred to me that they infiltrated Art class. Yellow + Blue = Green.
I hereby surrender.


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

I was learning FORTRAN, Basic, Vax COBOL, etc.. right at the time that we were moving away from mainframes, and into pc’s. The college shut down the program when I had only one more class to go. I got a job in another field, because I needed to eat, and never got back to programming. I wish that I had found a way to stick with it.

I remember using about forty punch cards to calculate the answer to 2 + 3. The computer that was hooked up to the card reader was the size of a small bedroom. It had six or seven tape drives, and required a full time worker just to back everything up at night.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Early on in my IT career I had to do nightly backups and night processing: print utility bills, paychecks and reports, using room sized computers.. Near the end I programmed an Oracle data base system to do unattended backups and processing. Systems were a bit smaller, Unix and PC servers.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I think that starting out in computer science has helped me quite a bit with process engineering. Pretty much no matter what the process, only one thing can occur at a time. It's all about efficiency and speed. Computers could only do one thing at a time... it just does them extremely quickly.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

C-Liner in motion


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

JeffHurl said:


> I started college as a computer science major in 1983. I took Basic, PL-1, Fortran, Cobol and a couple others I don't remember, but it was Assembly Language that made me decide to change majors to Accounting


Too bad! We have a mainframe-based system coded in the early 1990's that was installed in 1992. We pay 6 figures for people who still know those languages. Accountants, on the other hand, grow on trees.

I learned the same way you did... but a couple years head (my first program was to draw a smiley face, using code entered via punch cards).

And yes, we do get "AB END" errors in our output files....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Matison said:


> I was learning FORTRAN, Basic, Vax COBOL, etc.. right at the time that we were moving away from mainframes, and into pc’s. The college shut down the program when I had only one more class to go. I got a job in another field, because I needed to eat, and never got back to programming. I wish that I had found a way to stick with it.
> 
> I remember using about forty punch cards to calculate the answer to 2 + 3. The computer that was hooked up to the card reader was the size of a small bedroom. It had six or seven tape drives, and required a full time worker just to back everything up at night.


See my reply to JeffHurl above.


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## pmcgurin (Sep 7, 2010)

Perhaps my greatest regret is having lost the Calender Girl printout.


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## BigEd (Oct 28, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Too bad! We have a mainframe-based system coded in the early 1990's that was installed in 1992. We pay 6 figures for people who still know those languages. Accountants, on the other hand, grow on trees.
> 
> I learned the same way you did... but a couple years head (my first program was to draw a smiley face, using code entered via punch cards).
> 
> And yes, we do get "AB END" errors in our output files....


Ahem! I'm 51 this month and I have 29 years experience of IBM Mainframe Assembler, COBOL, PL1, Easytrieve, etc. I moved to a Progress position 6 months ago and I am fed up with this silly unorganised computation excuse... I am drastically looking for a mainframe job again. Unfortunately this side of the pond every company is moving away from the mainframe - stupid college degree accountants running IT....think they know it all...🤬

In 2020 when the NJ health guys were looking for COBOL programmers to resolve their sudden COVID rush I offered to help, but being a foreigner caused a little too much problems. 😷

If you need these skills, shout and I'll send my resume.😙

Anyway, back to trains... @Matison I will take a locomotive's cab number and manufacturer and google it. Mostly Trovestar will have a page and on it will be a release date. If not some times it might pop up else where and you might just get a glimpse of the actual age that way. Spookshow then fills in the rest. I have walked away from many deals because I felt it too old or suspect.

In model trains older does not mean better...EVER... and mostly not even more valuable. The technology changes so frequently that you loose out having old stuff. Mostly the last 30 years worth of Kato and Atlas are pretty good, ok, maybe only the last 20 years are comparable, but most stuff beyond 2000 are very good. Saw DCC grow from a side show to great sound and control...

Anyway, let me fix some stupid Progress code  Why is it even called Progress...bloody oxymoron...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

BigEd said:


> Ahem! I'm 51 this month and I have 29 years experience of IBM Mainframe Assembler, COBOL, PL1, Easytrieve, etc. I moved to a Progress position 6 months ago and I am fed up with this silly unorganised computation excuse... I am drastically looking for a mainframe job again. Unfortunately this side of the pond every company is moving away from the mainframe - stupid college degree accountants running IT....think they know it all...🤬
> 
> In 2020 when the NJ health guys were looking for COBOL programmers to resolve their sudden COVID rush I offered to help, but being a foreigner caused a little too much problems. 😷
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I filled my posting last year. But it was a long slog getting qualified applicants. I posted the position 3 times before I got any applicants at all.


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## BigEd (Oct 28, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Unfortunately, I filled my posting last year. But it was a long slog getting qualified applicants. I posted the position 3 times before I got any applicants at all.


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