# Inclines and other help - Small layout



## BraytoChicago

Hi Guys,

I'm planning a new layout in n scale. I'm challenging myself to go really small, because of space restrictions in our apartment. I'm attaching a page from a layout book I bought, "101 Track Plans" by Westcott. The dimensions of the table will be only 2 1/2' x 2 1/4'. 

My question is how do I achieve these inclines?  I had been looking forward to using Woodland Scenics inclines after trying without them on my last layout. But with these custom inclines (see the attached image), it seems like the pre-made inclines won't work. How do I approach this? Last time, I improvised and created the inclines from styrofoam (cutting our the direction of the track and supporting them with styrofoam pillars underneath but they weren't as uniform as I would have liked.:thumbsdown:

The cirlced numbers in the image (they are small) should be halved for n-scale. So the highest elevation is 3" (the circled 6s). Also the gridlines are 6" apart. 

Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Stephen


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## tjcruiser

Stephen,

Why didn't your earlier foam-cut risers work to create a "uniform" rise?

I used custom-cut foam risers on my HO layout with good success. Here's what I did, using an example of a rise over one half (180-degrees) of a circle ...

Track radius of 22" (as referenced to midpoint between rails)
Foam riser width underneath track of 2"
Therefore, "inside" edge of foam risers at a radius of 21"

Use inside of foam riser radius to calculate the circumference of that "inside" circle, or in my case, a half circle ...

Circumference = 2 x pi x Radius x 180/360 = 2 x 3.14 x 21 x 180/360 = 66 inches

My required rise over that circumference (or "run") was about 3".

Now, imagine that rise/run defining a long, slender triangle ... 3" tall and 66" long.

Map that out that triangle on a piece of foam 2" thick (the same thickness as the required individual riser width).

Cut out the triangle carefully with a sharp blade, straight edge, etc.

On the top of the triangle (the ramped or sloping face), mark 1" sections and number them ... you should have 66 of these for our 66" long triangle. Cut them out, just like slicing a loaf of bread.

On your layout, draw the "inside" radius of 21", which should be offset 1" tighter than the true 22" rail-to-rail midpoint of the track.

Finally, glue down your foam "slices of bread" in their numbered sequence, aligning each piece's "inner" corner with that 21" arc, and abutting all of the inside corners tightly next to each other. (The outside corners of each piece will be separated away from each other by some distance.)

If done carefully, the tops of these foam "bread slices" will create a perfectly smooth and properly sloped incline ramp following the intended contour of your track.

My example is for HO, of course, but the methodology would be the same at any scale.

Hope that helps a bit,

TJ


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## buccsfan64

I thought I would reply to this thread instead of starting a new one. I am seeing varied responses to N scale inclines. I am starting a 4x8 layout and the inner section will be an up-and-over dogbone as seen in Mikes Small Trackplans website (6th one down). I think a 3% incline will work, im doing the final calculations. Is there any real heartburn with 3% other than maybe with the weaker engines? I do plan to run smaller steam engines, 0-6-0 etc so I suppose I can just limit the number of cars with those. Where I can i'll use 2%. Is 3% OK? 
Does anyone have a detailed drawing of this particular layout? I am planning to use Woodland Scenics risers and inclines to keep it simple. Thanks


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## sstlaure

3% will work. It may limit the length of trains that can be pulled, but you can overcome that with running multiple engines.


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## Xnats

I had no problems with 3% WS risers on my old layout. It sure bets trying to do it from scratch. The only thing your really doing is adding strain to the couplers and engine gears. If you keep loads with in reason, well, everyone does it :laugh: 
If you go here and download Right Track you should be able to save the track plan from Mike's site.
http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm

In case someone was wondering who Mike is :laugh:
http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm

It looks like a great layout, you'll have to keep us posted:thumbsup:


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## buccsfan64

Thanks, I'll see if i can make it with 2%, i might be able to since the given plan is on a 4x2 ft area and my inner area will be roughly 3x6. I hope to create a divided layout with an 18" high center board so one side will look like a rail yard and the other side a country scene. Here's to big dreams!! I'll post a pic once i get the initial risers laid out.


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## flyvemaskin

On those 3% inclines, why not double head the steamers or any locos? I run two Kato 2-8-2's on my layout all the time, looks cool to. Cookie cutter ply would work for the inclines, it's easy to cut and makes a gentle transition from flay to 33%. Foam will work also, you just need a good set of risers under it for support.


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## Carl

One issue that you might wish to think about is the curve radius......the hobby seems to like 7-1/2" as a minimum. The more drive wheels on a steam engine, it seems that the radius needs to increase. If you plan on pulling passenger cars, you might consider going with a larger radius to prevent the large overhang on the curves. Edit.....7-3/4" not 7-1/2"

Looking forward to your progress.

Well, another edit: The hardcore model railroad guys say 9-3/4" minimum radius and that 2% is the best slope. With that said, it is your plan and what every you think is right is good. One thing to consider is that their seems to be a quality issue associated with the manufacturing of N Scale locomotives. You may have a brand new certain locomotive made by a company and I may have the same thing. Your's may have excellent "pulling power and the one I have may have real trouble in "pulling" a small string of cars up a 2% slope. I know this adds a little confuse to the equation, but it seems to be the reality of the N Scale world.

Best of luck


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## buccsfan64

I have a couple 4-8-4's that drag around 11.5" radiuses so I plan to use 19's on the large outer double rail and 13-15" radius on the inner up and over using flex. My first layout was around 3'x4' with two over/unders and a center oval. It was a Christmas layout with a village in the center. I used Bachmann EZ 11.5's and it was fine for everything but the 4-8-4's. I used mostly 2% on that one.


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