# Why do some cars differ in size even though they are all HO?



## Billy Banana (Jan 16, 2021)

Since I am pretty new to the whole train thing am I mixing set sizes here? They are all HO but some are larger in total size than others. The ones lined up on the right are longer and taller than those on the left


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

The top two on the left look like stock cars, not box cars, so they would be different sizes based on the animals they are intended to haul (cows usually aren't as tall as horses, etc.). As for the others, the prototypes have changed sizes over the years, so it depends on the exact car they are modeling. I had not noticed it with trains, but I am more familiar with trucks. In the 70's the max length of a trailer was 45 feet, then it went to 48, and now it is 53. From what I have read, train cars went through similar growth.

Which just means that your rolling stock are models of different cars, so they will be different sizes.


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## 65steam (Dec 18, 2019)

Take a look at the NEW or BLT dates on the sides and you will probably see quite a difference, with the newer cars being larger than the older ones are.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It’s just a difference in car lengths and heights.....just like the real one-to-one cars....and people!


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Yep what Old_Hobo said. A mixed freight train has all sorts of different size cars once you get away from container trains. Many short lines use whatever box cars are handy since they generally don't exchange with any major class 1 lines. Some short lines do so then they will have the bigger, newer cars to move. Newer hoppers when used in a unit train are the same since they are generally dumped by a rotating dumper machine. There is a name for that machine but I forget. I've watched them dump coal hoppers in a matter of just a couple of minutes. Bottom line, I'd use any size car you can buy. You don't say what era you are modeling. That would determine your car type too. Lastly, it's your railroad, your rules. 

Kenny


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Billy Banana said:


> Since I am pretty new to the whole train thing am I mixing set sizes here? They are all HO but some are larger in total size than others. The ones lined up on the right are longer and taller than those on the left
> 
> View attachment 553277


Billy Banana;

It's for the same reason that models of a Piper cub and a 747, or a sports car, and a semi, if modeled in the same scale, would be very different sizes. The models are different sizes because the real aircraft, road vehicles, or train cars are different sizes. Also some model manufacturers don't necessarily make models to accurate scale, for practical reasons. One example is that model track curves are a whole lot tighter than real curves, so the trucks on models need to swivel more. This usually means the car floor sits higher on the trucks than on the prototype because more clearance is needed for the trucks to turn further. There are many such compromises. 

Traction Fan 🙂


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

HO is a scale. That is, it's a proportion of the size of the real thing. In this case 1:87.1. If the real thing is a different size, so will a scale model. One exception to this is structure models -- often, these are slightly compressed from a true 1:87 scale.

Another thing that is not properly to scale is distance. My HO layout represents an area about 24 miles long and about a mile wide. In true HO scale, that would be 1455' x 60' (more than z quarter mile long). If my layout were "unfolded" (that is, the track was straight instead of a C shape), it would be about 45 feet long... nowhere near the actual scale distance.


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## Billy Banana (Jan 16, 2021)

Wow lots of great info! Thank you all. I was thinking that possibly not all real life box cars are the same size but never really noticed before. I wish my Grandfather was still alive as he worked on the railroad for a long time and knew it all😔 
Thanks again for the great responses!


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Cars on the left are from an earlier era, when they were shorter and lower.

Cars on the right are from a more modern era, in which freight cars got longer and higher.

Not much more to it than that...


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

Ya didn't compare them to an auto rack or a TOFC flat. Those are much longer than any of the cars you have in the picture.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Railroad cars got larger over time.

Around the beginning of the 20th century the standard boxcar was made of wood, was about 36' long and had a capacity of maybe 30-40 tons.

Around the beginning of the 21st century the standard boxcar was made of steel, was about 60' long and had a capacity of 100 tons.

Then there were the 86' boxcars built for handling automotive parts (very light and bulky).


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

AFGP9 said:


> Yep what Old_Hobo said. A mixed freight train has all sorts of different size cars once you get away from container trains.


Container cars are also different sizes.

Modern domestic (North America) containers are 53' long; international standard containers are 20' and 40'. Container cars come in 53' and 40' sizes for domestic and international boxes.

Several decades ago the max size for domestic boxes was 48' and there are also still container cars out there with 48' wells, but since most of those boxes have been replaced by 53' boxes, a lot of the 48' cars have been rebuilt, either lengthening the frame to handle 53' containers, or shortening them to handle 40' international boxes with less "wasted" length.




AFGP9 said:


> Many short lines use whatever box cars are handy since they generally don't exchange with any major class 1 lines. Some short lines do so then they will have the bigger, newer cars to move.


Untrue. The NA rail network is pretty integrated, and the vast majority of shortlines will have a direct connection to a larger Class I RR. Often modern shortlines are created to operate secondary lines that the big railroads spun off for not being as busy and profitable as their main lines. The shortline might lease cars from a leasing company, or have an agreement for the connecting road to provide empty cars for loading. RailBox/TTX has a massive fleet of free-running cars, and there's also a "pool" of standard boxcars provided by various lease and car management companies like GATX, Greenbrier, Wells Fargo, etc.


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## SlomoPilot (Jun 18, 2020)

While we're on the subject, someone remind me again why Athearn streamline passenger cars are shorter than everyone elses'.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

SlomoPilot said:


> While we're on the subject, someone remind me again why Athearn streamline passenger cars are shorter than everyone elses'.


THAT is because they wanted to make short cars that go around 18" radius train set curves. Those shorty cars are NOT for accuracy...

Full length 80+' cars don't like sharp curves.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Athearn streamlined mail and baggage cars are based on ATSF cars and are the correct length; the other types are too short, for the reason mentioned....


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

cv_acr said:


> THAT is because they wanted to make short cars that go around 18" radius train set curves. Those shorty cars are NOT for accuracy...
> 
> Full length 80+' cars don't like sharp curves.


Märklin, Roco, Fleischmann, and others also produce passenger wagons in 1/93 and 1/100 scale for those without a lot of space for a layout where curves must be tight. They are only compressed in length.


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## SlomoPilot (Jun 18, 2020)

Didn't Varney make some short heavyweight cars also ?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

They did make streamline cars....don’t know if they did heavyweights though....










A short history of Varney:


> Varney Scale Models was founded by Gordon Varney in 1936. Varney relocated the company from Chicago to Miami, Florida, in 1955. Some of the steam locomotives previously developed by Varney were acquired by Penn Line Manufacturing, which itself was later acquired by Bowser Manufacturing. In 1960, Gordon Varney sold his company to Sol Kramer of Life-Like Products. Gordon Varney died in 1965. Model trains continued to be produced under the Varney name until March 1970, when the branding was changed to "Life-Like." Gordon Varney was named a "Pioneer of Model Railroading" by the Model Railroad Industry Association (now the Hobby Manufacturers Association) in 1985


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## SlomoPilot (Jun 18, 2020)

I could be mistaken but I thought I recently saw a set of 3 Varney heavyweight cars (maybe B&O) that were 'short' cars. 

Also, I have some Tyco streamline coaches that seem to be in between: they're shorter than 80' but longer than the Athearn cars.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> The top two on the left look like stock cars, not box cars


Actually, the top one (yellow) is a stock car, the brown car is indeed a (wooden) boxcar......


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Actually, the top one (yellow) is a stock car, the brown car is indeed a (wooden) boxcar......


Thanks. The enlarged picture does make that clear. In the original, I could just see that the red one had the wooden sides and it looked to me like slits in it between the wood slats.


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