# LionChief App does not work on Android 11 crashes versions 2.6.20 - 2.6.22 - 2.6.25



## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

FYI, back in September, Lionel released an update to the Lionchief app v2.6.20 which broke bluetooth on Android 11 which are phones like the Samsung Galaxy S20, S21 etc. I tracked down some upper management at Lionel and reported it last week and supposedly they fixed it. Now the entire app crashes and also is confirmed in the Google Playstore reviews. How can an app go 2 months which problems this large and not be fixed?

Here is a video capture of what happens on Android 11 phones:


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

On a side note, I downloaded and installed an older version 2.6.05 of the .APK and installed it and everything works again. You will need to uninstall the existing buggy app first and enable installs from unknown sources.










Download Lionel LionChief 2.6.05 Android APK


Lionel LionChief Android 2.6.05 APK Download and Install. Control all Lionel Bluetooth Locomotives




m.apkpure.com






Disable auto-updates for this app.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Doesn't work on Android 12 either. I don't really have a use for running on my phone anyway, so they can keep it.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Doesn't work on Android 12 either. I don't really have a use for running on my phone anyway, so they can keep it.


Don't you think it's odd a company this large has an app to control the trains that literally does not work? Sounds like they do a poor job of hiring and firing staff that do not perform.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

ActorMike said:


> ...? Sounds like they do a poor job of hiring and firing staff that do not perform.


Perhaps a small outside firm that does apps.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

Millstonemike said:


> Perhaps a small outside firm that does apps.


Not according to the app information:










They recently changed the email contact for the app as well, it was [email protected].


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

ActorMike said:


> Not according to the app information:
> 
> View attachment 571489
> 
> ...


That is the generic Lionel contact info. I would think Lionel would want to control the customer interface for its product. It doesn't mean there are s/w coders as employees.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

Millstonemike said:


> That is the generic Lionel contact info. I would think Lionel would want to control the customer interface for its product. It doesn't mean there are s/w coders as employees.


If you hire a third-party developer for an app, they are typically listed as the app developer in the Google play store, not the business.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Lionel is not a large company. It's about 100 million per year or less, and has maybe 50 employees, most of whom are not in tech. Not an excuse but a possible explanation. The vast majority of customers likely use the remote included in the LionChief sets or the universal remote or the cab-1/cab-2. A small minority probably use the app, so I'm guessing it's not the highest priority. 

On the other hand, MTH, when they used to make sets (no longer apparently), decided not to include any method of controlling their locos in sets except using their app. And who knows what its future is at this point. 

Unless I am mistaken, any Lionel loco that can use the Bluetooth app also can use the LionChief controller, either the remote that came with the loco, or the $40 or so universal remote. For myself, I prefer the physical remote to the app. Get yourself the universal remote and save yourself some frustration. It's very reliable.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

neilblumberg said:


> Get yourself the universal remote and save yourself some frustration. It's very reliable.


I have a better idea. Terminate whoever is responsible for ignoring the dozens of negative reviews accumulating for months and replace them with someone reliable who knows what they are doing and does their job with excellence .
I work in technology and there is really no excuse for what's going on here other than poor leadership and people flat out not doing their job for months.


neilblumberg said:


> The vast majority of customers likely use the remote included in the LionChief sets


The android app has over 10,000 installs and multiple 1 star reviews posted today alone, so people use it.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

"Terminate whoever is responsible for ignoring the dozens of negative reviews accumulating for months and replace them with someone reliable who knows what they are doing and does their job with excellence ."

You are remarkably certain you know what's going on and how it could be fixed considering you are not someone inside Lionel or closely affiliated. Lots of assumptions that may or may not be true. Advocating firing people without knowing all the facts isn't heartwarming or rational. I'm sure your intent is good, but you're coming across as intemperate in my view.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

neilblumberg said:


> "Terminate whoever is responsible for ignoring the dozens of negative reviews accumulating for months and replace them with someone reliable who knows what they are doing and does their job with excellence ."
> 
> You are remarkably certain you know what's going on and how it could be fixed considering you are not someone inside Lionel or closely affiliated. Lots of assumptions that may or may not be true. Advocating firing people without knowing all the facts isn't heartwarming or rational. I'm sure your intent is good, but you're coming across as intemperate in my view.


Fact- The app *has not worked in months* and has accumulated countless negative reviews for months. I've owned a web development business for over 22 years and based upon that experience, I am telling you what is going on with the app is not normal or excusable. If the new verions didn't work, it should have never been released, period. There is absolutely no valid excuse or reasoning for what has happened. You can read the reviews and the dates of the reviews and see this problem has been going on for months, and months, and months.

Any business owner or manager should be furious at all the negative reviews that have been piling up for months after an app was released that didn't work properly.

No Excuse for this:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

neilblumberg said:


> Unless I am mistaken, any Lionel loco that can use the Bluetooth app also can use the LionChief controller, either the remote that came with the loco, or the $40 or so universal remote. For myself, I prefer the physical remote to the app. Get yourself the universal remote and save yourself some frustration. It's very reliable.


Correct, I tried the LC app on my new Legacy Reading Camelback, and no joy, couldn't even got off first base! It ran fine with the Orange LC Universal remote using BT. This was only an academic exercise for me, I run my stuff with TMCC/Legacy or the DCS system.


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## jprampolla (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi Folks,

I have been waiting for Hornby in the UK to update the Android version of their app (for the HM 6000) for several months and add the features that are only in the iOS version. Seems priority is given to the iOS apps. But I agree, not a way to do business and maintain the hobby. I am new to the Lionchief app (not new to Lionel trains, got my first in 1957), but I have a cheap LG Android phone ($36), about 2 years old and the app's features all work well. No way will I update the phone's operating system!!! LOL

Take care, and a Blessed Thanksgiving to Everyone!!! Joe.


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

ActorMike said:


> Fact- The app *has not worked in months* and has accumulated countless negative reviews for months. I've owned a web development business for over 22 years and based upon that experience, I am telling you what is going on with the app is not normal or excusable. If the new verions didn't work, it should have never been released, period. There is absolutely no valid excuse or reasoning for what has happened. You can read the reviews and the dates of the reviews and see this problem has been going on for months, and months, and months.
> 
> Any business owner or manager should be furious at all the negative reviews that have been piling up for months after an app was released that didn't work properly.
> 
> No Excuse for this:




contact Howard Hitchcock directly.
hhitchock
at 

lionel.com


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I just tried it on my old Galaxy 4 that a used specifically for this purpose, and it crashes on that one as well.


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## Quietman (Oct 2, 2016)

So, here's another aspect on this.
It's Christmas. People will be buying starter sets, some people will be buying their first LC loco because of the the fanfare some reviewers have given the LC2+ locos.
What's going to happen with the new people that find out the app is a piece of crap? Especially with Lionel touting the new features in their catalog, and that is in the manual for the new sets?

Letting an app continue with these problems is not only bad customer service, it's going to be really bad business and PR. Great way to promote the hobby . . .Not.

Here's hoping they get off their arses, hire a developer if their people can't figure it out, and get it fixed.

Now here's a question I have, as the only LC loco I own is a Mickey Mouse Christmas loco, which I haven't pulled out yet (which the kids and my wife love). Is it only the versions with the new voice feature Lionel is marketing that are crashing?

My phone has Android 10, will find out this weekend if it crashes on 10 too. Probably, considering John's experience.

A special thanks to Mike for providing the download link to the older version!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have an old Galaxy Note 4 phone I kept for this purpose as well as for the MTH app. It has Android 6.01, and the app crashes as soon as I try to select an engine. Does the exact same thing with the same error message on my Galaxy S21 5G with Android 12.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Jesus.

Roco, Märklin, PIKO, and others across the pond would have fired the person responsible on the spot had this happened. That is inexcusable for a manufacturer of Lionel's stature to allow this to happen, let alone for it to be released as a working product.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have an old Galaxy Note 4 phone I kept for this purpose as well as for the MTH app. It has Android 6.01, and the app crashes as soon as I try to select an engine. Does the exact same thing with the same error message on my Galaxy S21 5G with Android 12.


I tested on A Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge+ Running Android 6 and it also crashes.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

bigdodgetrain said:


> contact Howard Hitchcock directly.
> hhitchock
> at
> 
> lionel.com


I did. Did not get anything but a read receipt.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I'd probably be too embarrassed to reply too.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> I'd probably be too embarrassed to reply too.


Yeah and this adds to the embarrassment. The director of engineering emailed me and said they found the Bluetooth problem on November 17th and were releasing an update 2.6.22. As we see, this actually made it worse. I emailed back on November 21 and have not heard a peep! Crickets. Terrible customer service and they obviously don't care.

Basically the entire customer base is Beta testers and this problem has persisted for months without a fix.

Also, for those that say just use the handheld controller, it doesn't allow you to set the volume levels, etc.

I wrote a blog today that shows how to roll back to a working app- LionChief App does not work on Android 11 crashes versions 2.6.20 - 2.6.22 - Knoxville Pigeon Forge


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know what they did to the app, but it's apparently totally broken!


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

Apparently they updated the app to fix Android what amazes me is they upper management didn't email back and say a peep.

They obviously need to buy the be our guest book to learn about customer service.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

Just got home from holiday travel and confirmed the latest version of the Lionchief app now works! YEAH! It's sad this went on for at least 10 weeks and only got fixed because I started blowing up executives' emails addresses and published a technology blog about it. Sadly, they never apologized or emailed back to even let me know they updated the app to version 2.6.23 which you can download from the playstore here- Lionel LionChief - Apps on Google Play


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Had they apologized it would have been an admission of guilt. They fixed it and will sweep it under the rug like there was never anything wrong.


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## 3railbnsf (Apr 2, 2018)

ActorMike said:


> Just got home from holiday travel and confirmed the latest version of the Lionchief app now works! YEAH! It's sad this went on for at least 10 weeks and only got fixed because I started blowing up executives' emails addresses and published a technology blog about it. Sadly, they never apologized or emailed back to even let me know they updated the app to version 2.6.23 which you can download from the playstore here- Lionel LionChief - Apps on Google Play


Mike, thanks for your efforts on this. On another note of Lionel and the apps they are supposed to provide is the WiFi Camera app on the Google Play store. It disappeared almost 4 months ago and has yet to return. I wanted to buy Caboose camera but really hesitant to do so because of the lack of support/response from Lionel.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

3railbnsf said:


> Mike, thanks for your efforts on this matter. I wanted to buy Caboose camera but really hesitant to do so because of the lack of support/response from Lionel.


Here is who I contacted. Obviously it worked. A problem that went on for months got an app updated within 24 hours!

There is a fix as of 12/2/2021 that resolves this issue for most users as noted in this blog-








LionChief App does not work on Android 11 crashes Bluetooth not connecting on versions 2.6.20 - 2.6.22 - 2.6.25 - Knoxville Pigeon Forge


If you are experiencing problems with connecting your Lionel O Scale train using the current version of Lionel’s Lionchief app 2.6.22 or 2.6.20, it does not work. They have been ... Read More



websiteworld.com


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

Update! The latest version of the app 2.6.25 doesn't work on my Polar Express O Scale set! The train won't stay connected to Bluetooth. I've noticed in the playstore reviews there are many other reviews with the same problem. The only workaround is to roll back to an older version of the app as described here- LionChief App does not work on Android 11 crashes Bluetooth not connecting on versions 2.6.20 - 2.6.22 - 2.6.25 - Knoxville Pigeon Forge

Once you do that, the app works perfectly! Hope this helps!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Truthfully, this whole "run your train with your phone" concept leaves me cold! Sorry, I'll keep using TMCC/Legacy and MTH DCS with the real remote, they work fine! The only LionChief I own is a couple of LC+ 2.0 0-6-0T locomotives that also run TMCC, and that's the way I run them.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Truthfully, this whole "run your train with your phone" concept leaves me cold! Sorry, I'll keep using TMCC/Legacy and MTH DCS with the real remote, they work fine! The only LionChief I own is a couple of LC+ 2.0 0-6-0T locomotives that also run TMCC, and that's the way I run them.


It's not just about running the train with your phone. The app allows you to change settings in the train like the individual sound levels of the horn, bell, chug etc that cannot be done with the regular controller. For example, I often turn the chugging sound off or very low but leave the other sounds at full volume.
You can also turn off the smoke without having to use the manual switch.

People who made these changes last year are now unable to update the settings because the app is broken. Some have no sound at all. no

Regardless of preference it's pretty obvious Lionel is failing miserably in this area to the level of embarrassment. The reviews are among the worst I've ever seen for an app.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I think technology is going to be Lionel's downfall. It was a good run.

RIP


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

MichaelE said:


> I think technology is going to be Lionel's downfall. It was a good run.
> 
> RIP


Not a good way to build a new generation of customers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I hope Lionel is smart enough not to discontinue their true remote like MTH was.  So far they've resisted that urge.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I hope Lionel is smart enough not to discontinue their true remote like MTH was.  So far they've resisted that urge.


I wouldn't be surprised if that is the future direction. It's hard to make big profits in a niche market and the controller must be fairly complicated.

In the early 80's I worked for a division of Litton Industries. The division made the xerographic printers that produced the "3-part tags" you used to see at clothes retailers. Back then, one of the tags was removed to be counted later. That's how the retailer measured inventory sales. So they also produced a specialized reader to batch read the tags. They lost money on the reader, broke even on the printer and did it all to sell the paper.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Millstonemike said:


> In the early 80's I worked for a division of Litton Industries. The division made the xerographic printers that produced the "3-part tags" you used to see at clothes retailers. Back then, one of the tags was removed to be counted later. That's how the retailer measured inventory sales. So they also produced a specialized reader to batch read the tags. They lost money on the reader, broke even on the printer and did it all to sell the paper.


Same story in a lot of products. Remember Kodak, they made cameras, but made their money on the film. Same with Polaroid. How about Keurig coffee? They sell the machines cheap, but the make a killing on the little cups. Laser printers and toner cartridges? Yep! You can't tell me that the laser printer I buy for $79 was a big profit generator!


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

The problem here is other than the liquid or pellet smoke, the toy trains are not consumables like toilet paper or ink. That MTH company website is a joke, looks like a middle schooler made it. I doubt they are looked upon as a leader to follow. The development of the controller has been done and patented so I doubt that is going anywhere anytime soon. They can crank those out in China fairly cheap.

There is a lot of revenue stream potential via the app and related technology, but I don't think the leadership at the company has the vision or technology experience to make it happen. They've already been bankrupt in the past, they need to figure out a way to leverage subscription-based services like Apple/Microsoft/Google.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

ActorMike said:


> ... They've already been bankrupt in the past, they need to figure out a way to leverage subscription-based services like Apple/Microsoft/Google.


Don't give them any ideas


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Example, I got the "new" Lionchief 5.0 Polar set to evaluate the latest Lionel electronics and features. I have both the iPhone 10 and an Amazon Fire tablet. It took a few attempts to ensure the app was updated to the latest version on both devices (complete uninstall old version, go to App Store and download the "latest") and even then on the fire tablet voice streaming or voice recording is more often static than sound because the app cannot 100% of the time activate the microphone. On the iPhone it was more reliable and works, but it took 3 attempts to get it working.
There is NO manual, no video tutorial, and Lionel throws out these new features that are more gimmick than actual function.

Let's be honest, this is their (Lionel's) attempt at copying the MTH protocast function.
So once again, between them adding features and just being multi platform- their testing and release quality control leaves a lot to be desired. Worse, timing before the holiday and this being the first customer experience.....................


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## 3railbnsf (Apr 2, 2018)

ActorMike said:


> The problem here is other than the liquid or pellet smoke, the toy trains are not consumables like toilet paper or ink. That MTH company website is a joke, looks like a middle schooler made it. I doubt they are looked upon as a leader to follow. The development of the controller has been done and patented so I doubt that is going anywhere anytime soon. They can crank those out in China fairly cheap.
> 
> There is a lot of revenue stream potential via the app and related technology, but I don't think the leadership at the company has the vision or technology experience to make it happen. They've already been bankrupt in the past, they need to figure out a way to leverage subscription-based services like Apple/Microsoft/Google.


I couldn't agree more Mike. If Lionel and MTH want to be in this technology arena they need to keep current with websites, apps and staying in touch with the younger generation. I really hope MTH overhauls that website but I think time, resources and "bigger fish to fry" right now have that project moved down on the list. I exclusively use the APPs from both companies and keep my remotes (CAB1 & DCS) around for troubleshooting purposes. I love being able to run multple trains from multiple manufactures with one small device that is a third of the size of a legacy remote.

Lionel has done a great job with the website but the app lately has been a real bummer and more focus needs to placed there. Our company does consulting work for other smaller organizations like Lionel and MTH that want technology like apps but don't have the internal resources to begin such an project. If an app we develop on the play store reaches a rating below 3.5 we advise our customer to get with us to find out why, address the complaints made, and release an improved version that has been tested. When it drops below 3.0, we discuss pulling the app and look at scrapping it for something built new from the ground up. Why Lionel has let this app get so bad is beyond me! These reviews won't go away and stand as black mark against them which makes me wonder why the reputation management people at Lionel haven't moved this to top of the list.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

Jetguy said:


> Let's be honest, this is their (Lionel's) attempt at copying the MTH protocast function.
> So once again, between them adding features and just being multi platform- their testing and release quality control leaves a lot to be desired. Worse, timing before the holiday and this being the first customer experience.....................


The app was first released over four years ago! This isn't something new. If you read the reviews in the app store, it had been broken for weeks/months and isn't something recent. The only reason they even started releasing updates is I found two email addresses of executives at the company and TWO DAYS LATER they released an update to the app, which made it even worse. LOL Up until then they didn't do squat despite countless negative reviews.




3railbnsf said:


> makes me wonder why the reputation management people at Lionel haven't moved this to top of the list.


I can tell you that I emailed Michael Phillips- Sr. Vice-President / General Manager, Dave Olson- Director of Engineering and Howard Hitchcock. Two days later they started publishing app updates, but they still don't work correctly, but at least it's on the radar now.

If I was running that company some heads would roll because there is no excuse for what has taken place, and the length of time it went on.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Jetguy said:


> Example, I got the "new" Lionchief 5.0 Polar set to evaluate the latest Lionel electronics and features.


I have one of the LC+ 2.0 Polar Express locomotives, runs great on TMCC. Bluetooth? Can't find it. The Universal remote doesn't connect, but the remote works with the new Legacy stuff, so I know it's not the remote.
If you ever want to see a problem just waiting to bite you in the butt, look no further than the kludgy drawbar connector design!


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## Quietman (Oct 2, 2016)

Keeping my fingers crossed. I have an older LC Mickey Mouse Christmas loco that has been having no issues so for other than one. It shows up as "Lionel Steam Locomotive" rather than as the Mickey Loco, but all of the critical features work, and it doesn't drop the connection. Haven't tried the voice cast yet.

And as for audio gimmicks. . . .
GE got into it with the old 1950's "Audio Engineer"








Audio Engineer Voice Controller for Lionel or Marx Trains postwar | eBay


Made by GE Untested. has very little wear.



www.ebay.com





and there's the Lionel radio tower you can broadcast over via bluetooth, or the 90's version with an FM radio built in.

Then the dispatch station that comes with a microphone and can record.

Other than playing music you like through the radio tower (with not very good quality), these are geared towards making things fun for the younger crowd.


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## ActorMike (Nov 14, 2021)

Quietman said:


> these are geared towards making things fun for the younger crowd.


Disagree. That's like saying being about to turn your lights on/off with your phone is for young crowd. Watch the latest episode of Toys that made America about Matchbox vs Hot Wheels. Mattel came in and made a better more functional product and in 1 year destroyed Matchbox who had previously owned the entire diecast market and as we know, now literally owns them!

If you don't keep up with the times, you go out of business.


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## 3railbnsf (Apr 2, 2018)

Quietman said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed. I have an older LC Mickey Mouse Christmas loco that has been having no issues so for other than one. It shows up as "Lionel Steam Locomotive" rather than as the Mickey Loco, but all of the critical features work, and it doesn't drop the connection. Haven't tried the voice cast yet.
> 
> And as for audio gimmicks. . . .
> GE got into it with the old 1950's "Audio Engineer"
> ...


You must be running an older version of the app if it shows up as Lionel Steam Locomotive. I wouldn't upgrade anytime soon unless you don't want it to work at all.

The audio engineer is hardly a voice activated device. It has a simple Normally Closed switch in the microphone that opens by the percussion of your breath, tapping on it or dropping the microphone.

The Bluetooth radio tower is nothing more than a Bluetooth speaker inside of the building, not real inventive at all. 

The MTH proto-dispatch was a nice feature but it's best to not have the train moving when you use it. The APP drops support for it and only keeps the proto-cast which also works okay in the right conditions. 

Lionel LVC is a pretty hit or miss. My kids like it for a while but has lots of trouble translating. "Highball" becomes "Eyeball" and "Stop" becomes "Pop". With some more tweaking it could be better. I haven't tried the newest feature of record and playback yet but I suspect it should work as expected.

I think adding an interface to these apps to allow us to use our own gamepads or joysticks would be a great way to enhace the playability for all generations. Younger kids who like Playstation and Xbox can now use those controllers with the app to run their trains.


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## Quietman (Oct 2, 2016)

3railbnsf said:


> You must be running an older version of the app if it shows up as Lionel Steam Locomotive. I wouldn't upgrade anytime soon unless you don't want it to work at all.


Nope, running the latest version off the play store


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