# ho here we come again



## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

hi to all . back at the hobby again , after a 3 years of doing nothing . my grandson who loves trains has me kind of inspired again so I'm firing up again . I have built a 4 x 8 layout table but because of space constrictions I'm beginning to rethink that ( support post at one end ) .
my biggest problem right now is no layout in mind . I know I want a few bridges and tunnels for trains to run through , but unable to find a layout I like . I'm going to use as much of the flex track as I can so what tools or even homemade ones would work for laying flex track ? all suggestions appreciated ( even layout ) . just trying to hopefully have all in place before firing up.
mike


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## RH1 (Jan 4, 2016)

How much room do you actually have?


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

going to try and talk the wife into letting me use the 4 x 10 base i have built already . everyone has left the nest and there was a 14 x 18 ft room in basement . bed and stuff there and thats the room i thought i was going to be able to get , with plenty of room to expand once i was smart enough to do so . not sure what happened with that . so hopefully tomorrow we will discuss space . 
mike


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## RH1 (Jan 4, 2016)

bristolman2012 said:


> ...14 x 18 ft room in basement . bed and stuff there and thats the room i thought i was going to be able to get , with plenty of room to expand once i was smart enough to do so...


Build narrow shelving around the walls, above the "bed and stuff". That way she's not actually "losing" the room while you gain it. You can fit a lot of running even on narrow shelves in a 14 x 18 room!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

In answer to your question you will need only a track cutter of some sort, Xuron are popular now http://www.xuron.com/, or a dremel type drill with a disc, plus a small file for cleaning up the cut. You'll also need a pair of long nose pliers if you're pinning down track, also useful for squeezing the joiners once installed to ensure a tight connection.

You could also consider some sort of radius template for the flex like sweep sticks http://www.handlaidtrack.com/Fast-Tracks-HO-Scale-Curved-SweepSticks-s/2212.htm if you intendusing Peco they have downloadable templates for their turnouts http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans which may help you. I can recommend their code 83 which is US railroad specific.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

thx to all for replies , doing code 100 . though about shelves but this is more for my grandkids than me . they are short yet and want them to be able to run ,see and enjoy. i want to put a lot of bridges in a layout that i can come up with .


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*picture ( with some modifications )*


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*no watermark*


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, that would be a nice N scale layout on a 4 foot wide table, but I'm
afraid that you won't have too much success running many HO locos on
radius as tight as shown on the upper level tracks. A four foot width
barely accomodates a 22" radius which is the minimum for some locos.

Have you checked the several layouts in our Layout Design forum?
Tho you may not be able to build one entirely the same you could
get some ideas that would fit your space.


Don


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*layout*

I was hoping with 10 ft length I could eliminate some of that . I also want to eliminate tunnels at the rt side of layout but keep one at left . thank you for input and help . I did look at layouts too , but remember beginner and so not sure if I saw anything with bridges in them.
mike


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You can install a bridge most anywhere that here is a length
of straight track, or if you want to get fawncee, you could build
a curved one. 

If you use the 2" thick foam as a top for your benchwork, a stream
or lake can be easily 'dug' in it. Or your bridge could be over a
road.

To have a really spectacular bridge, cut the top of the bench work and
drop the surface down thus creating more of a deep cut for your
stream.

Look at the layout designs from an operational standpoint and whether
they fit in your available space. You can always change or add various
scenic effects such as a bridge or tunnel.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The problem with bridges is that they generally require grades, and grades are one area where beginners often get into trouble, making them too steep, too abrupt, or both. The longer the models you want to run, the more gradual your grades need to be, and gradual grades require huge amounts of space: a 2% grade is steep for a train, and that requires 50 linear inches to gain one inch of height, and that much again on the opposite side. Since you need a minimum of 3 vertical inches clearance for an over / under in HO scale (although you could make do with less in your design above) I'm still afraid the grade would be murderous.

Consider also: your 4x10 layout, with 2' access on each side, requires 112 square feet for 40 square feet of layout. That same 112 square feet, with an "around the walls" arrangement with a width of just 2', would give you 72 square feet of layout... almost double the space.

Consider further: your grandkids will grow. They make (or you can build) step stools. You may not want them being able to reach the layout just yet.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

wife and I came to agreement , table is together sitting in a spot where I have access to both sides . problem is the table is sitting at 36 inches without anything on it so I'm going to lower the legs . she even came up with a good idea , put casters on the legs . she is an awesome artist so when it comes to the scenery part ?
mike


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

happy to say I did finish my table base today so waiting for book with some layouts in it and going to explore the layout I posted some more . I really need to learn how to do layouts where I can eliminate the more expensive turnouts where I can and still have a layout where more than one train can run .


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

bristolman2012 said:


> happy to say I did finish my table base today so waiting for book with some layouts in it and going to explore the layout I posted some more . I really need to learn how to do layouts where I can eliminate the more expensive turnouts where I can and still have a layout where more than one train can run .


I've never seen a need for anything other than a regular left and right turnout. two lefts with some flex between to bridge two tracks.

Or right hand ones, which ever.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Good books & some other advice*



bristolman2012 said:


> happy to say I did finish my table base today so waiting for book with some layouts in it and going to explore the layout I posted some more . I really need to learn how to do layouts where I can eliminate the more expensive turnouts where I can and still have a layout where more than one train can run .


 bristolman;

First, thank your lucky stars, and your wife, for having such an understanding spouse!
Casters on the legs can be very good. Just make sure the legs have enough diagonal cross bracing to keep them quite rigid while rolling your layout. The legs will tend to wobble a lot during the move otherwise. You might also consider getting the casters with toe-operated brakes built in. when your layout is sitting still, it needs to stay very still. A casual bump on the edge could derail all the trains if
it is free to move.
A couple of book recommendations for you. First, "102 track plans"(just what it says).
Second, "N scale Railroading, getting started in the hobby"(don't sweat the "N scale part. The book's excellent info can be used in any scale.) Both should be available from www.kalmbach.com
under model railroading books.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*other thoughts curves*

for those just starting out especially with flex track , do inside curves first and outside last . the only other problem I have noticed is that for 4 x 10 layout I'm unable to have 2 22 inch radius for ho . using 2 inches between centers I laid out 23 and 21 inch radius . will that be to close on a curve ? change inner to 20 1/2 ? should you solder track together prior to nailing down ? what do you do for filler rail pcs on flex going around curves ? 
mike


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

As always, the answer is "it depends". You can do curves in any order. I tend to lay my track by "routes" rather than inner / outer, so that I can hook up and test as I go. The key thing to remember is that the stated radius is for the track centerline, and you have to allow room for the actual track and roadbed on either side.

Look at the NMRA standards pages for recommended distances between tracks. In general, though, longer equipment overhangs more on the same diameter curve. Your best bet is to set it up and test your equipment and see if you have clearance issues. 2" separation would be an absolute minimum, though (although protype clearances to scale are actually less, but they use proportionally much broader curves than we do).

I generally find that it is much easier to lay a smooth curve if I solder the flex track into one longer piece first, but it's not necessary as long as you pay attention to potential kinks at the rail joints.

Also, have you considered using an adhesive to lay your reack rather than nails. I find it easier to lay track smoothly using latex adhesive caulk, because I can slide it around a bit and make everything "just so" before it becomes "permanent".


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I agree with CTValleyRR. Solder the flex when straight then curve it. Note that puts the joints so they are not across from one another, all good! I soldered after I curved the flex track and ended up with a kink. I have since torn up all the flex track and am now laying down CVT ties and gluing the rail to them. Also using caulk to "glue" the flex or ties down is the way to go! You can weight down the track with those boxes of chicken or beef stock for a few hours just to get a good level set to the track! One other hint, make sure your roadbed is level (perpendicular to the direction of travel) you'll eliminate all sorts of problems later if you take the time to get the roadbed down right!


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

*crawl*

I think I'm going to crawl before I walk . being so new at this , I think my first goal is going to be a layout where I can have 2 continuous running trains on the same level . ill put a turnout in so maybe I can expand a little later , so I'm just going to track nail first . maybe some small ups and downs with track height until I learn . still waiting for answer to other question as to what you use to fill track gaps with flex when you go around the corner ?
mike


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

bristolman2012 said:


> Istill waiting for answer to other question as to what you use to fill track gaps with flex when you go around the corner ?
> mike


Put the loose rail on the inside of the curve. Then cut off the excess rail that sticks out. Just measure and fit carefully before you cut.

You will also have to remove 1-2 ties at each end so that you will have space for rail joiners. Save the ties. After the track is laid, cut off the nibs (the "spikes") on the tops of the ties. Then slide the the ties under the rail and glue them to the roadbed. No need to attach them to the track. They are there just for appearance.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

once again what does everyone use for extra rail ? cut rail from a 9 inch straight ?
mike


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

You don't add to the short rail but cut off the long rail. Make sure you cut it even with the short rail or you'll end up with a gap some where.

Best method for me using Atlas flex track was to put the movable rail on the inside of the turn and then when adding the 
next piece slid the movable rail enough to have room to slid the first long rail into the next piece, this staggers the joints and makes for a much smoother turn. 

Don't know if this will work with other makes of flex track. 
I hope this is what you were asking about. :dunno:

Magic


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

bristolman2012 said:


> once again what does everyone use for extra rail ? cut rail from a 9 inch straight ?
> mike


You need to think about what people are telling you. The reason no one appeared to have answered your question is because you didn't read carefully enough. The answer is NO ONE fills with extra rail. As the previous two posters have said, the "short" rail determines the length of your curved track segment. You cut off the excess plastic ties; you don't add rail to fill those ties. If you need a longer piece of track, you have to joint two pieces of flex track together. You don't need to cut the longer rail -- it's okay (preferrable even) to have the joints staggered.

Best practice is to trim an additional 2-3 ties from each end, which both gives you room to add rail joiners and to solder without having to worry about melting ties. After the track is in, file off the little plastic nubs that hook over the bottom of the rails and slip the extra ties back under the track. If you're using foam roadbed, it's easy to compress it enough to slide the ties back under even with most of the tie plate detail intact.

Yes, I know I just essentially restated what the previous two posters said. If you still don't understand, say so, and we'll try to rephrase it so that you do. But we ARE answering your question.


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## bristolman2012 (Mar 4, 2012)

CTValleyRR said:


> You need to think about what people are telling you. The reason no one appeared to have answered your question is because you didn't read carefully enough. The answer is NO ONE fills with extra rail. As the previous two posters have said, the "short" rail determines the length of your curved track segment. You cut off the excess plastic ties; you don't add rail to fill those ties. If you need a longer piece of track, you have to joint two pieces of flex track together. You don't need to cut the longer rail -- it's okay (preferrable even) to have the joints staggered.
> 
> Best practice is to trim an additional 2-3 ties from each end, which both gives you room to add rail joiners and to solder without having to worry about melting ties. After the track is in, file off the little plastic nubs that hook over the bottom of the rails and slip the extra ties back under the track. If you're using foam roadbed, it's easy to compress it enough to slide the ties back under even with most of the tie plate detail intact.
> 
> Yes, I know I just essentially restated what the previous two posters said. If you still don't understand, say so, and we'll try to rephrase it so that you do. But we ARE answering your question.


your right and I apologize , I didn't read carefully enough . just keep sliding inside together and solder . I apologize to all who answered my thread and thank you for responses .
mike


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I whole heartedly agree with using staggered joints on curved flex track.
But I try to use the ties to maintain gauge. You carefully slip the
long rail into the 'spike nubs' just as they were originally. You will,
likely have to file off the nubs for 2 or 3 ties to fit the joiners.

Don


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