# Looking for the other Marx collector in America...question



## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Greetings rare friend!

I just purchased this Marx 7674 Union Pacific M10005 Tin Litho Diesel (it's still in the mail from the ebay seller).

By any chance would you happen to know the general time of manufacture? 

Any other info appreciated.

Thanks & Merry Christmas!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

One guide lists it as 791, 1940, 1948 to 52.They came in mechanical or electric.


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

T-Man said:


> One guide lists it as 791, 1940, 1948 to 52.They came in mechanical or electric.


Thanks much, T-Man.

I guess there's no way to tell for sure if it's 1940 or 48-52.

I'll figure on 1952 due to the near perfect condition.

Still not bad for the entire set being $115.

It's still in the mail but I've watched videos and it looks fun, not Lionel, but fun in a toy sort of way.

I'll buy a few more MARX trains and return to vintage Lionel.

Have a great evening.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Check the drive wheels, If this motor has fat gear wheels then it would be an earlier manufacture. Can you get us a pic of the bottom of the motor when you receive this?


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

balidas said:


> Check the drive wheels, If this motor has fat gear wheels then it would be an earlier manufacture. Can you get us a pic of the bottom of the motor when you receive this?


Here's a bottom photo the seller on ebay posted. The train is due to be delivered this Saturday.


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Yeah, it might have trouble running through anything but an old Marx or American Flyer switch.....

The gear drive wheel will go bumpeta bumpeta through the Frogs and Flangeways on regular 0, 027 switches...….hwell:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Two good resources for Marx train i.d., years, etc.

http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/marxtin.htm

http://marxtinplatetrains.com/index.html

Using the FIRST link, click on Streamliners on the right hand bar menu, then click on M10005 on the next right-hand menu. You'll see lots of info on the train. The info here suggests that Marx started producing the M10005 in 1936!

Cheers,

TJ


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

You would also have to slightly modify any crossovers you may want to use.


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

I never owned any Marx trains, but I was always fascinated by them. They didn't have the detail or quality of Lionel or American Flyer, but there were so fun and cool in their own way. 

Brings back childhood memories.

Do I remember correctly that they were sold mostly by Montgomery Wards? I seem to remember them in their Christmas catalogs.

Nice find, should be fun.

Art


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Chugman said:


> ... They didn't have the detail or quality of Lionel or American Flyer, but there were so fun and cool in their own way. ...
> 
> Art


I take it your term quality refers to features, etc. As for Marx quality (i.e., reliability & longevity), I "inherited" some Marx trains a few months ago. They had been in storage some 50 years. After a thorough motor cleaning and lube, both pre-war engines run like they just came out of their box with E-units working 100%. 

The common phrase applied to Marx motors is "They're bulletproof".


And I serviced 7 remote switches that now snap into position on minimal voltage (though 1 takes a tad more juice than the other 6). Both 45 W transformers are good to go. One has a little hum but so does my Lionel 1033.


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

Yes, Mike I wasn't trying to put them down. They were made of sheet metal that was printed or painted with a design on them. They were less expensive, but had a charm unlike any others. I believe the Marx company was very successful in marketing a wide range of toys. I seem to recall from watching the TV show "American Pickers" that early Marx toys are very collectible.

Art


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

DJ;

We had member recently BenzTrains, I called Marx TOYS, after reading an article where a guy said; "Once you realize Marx are not scale trains but rather toys, you can really appreciate them."
Well Benztrains went ballistic. I collect and restore Marx exclusively, it's what i had when I was a kid, and I love them. 
Just a work of caution, if you follow Benz on Youtube, PLEASE try not to accept his MODIFICATIONS to Marx trains. He buys junk trains and robs parts from several trains and makes a running Frankenstein train. 
Some feel this is OK, but at some point when Ben is gone, someone may buy his collection thinking they are getting a great Marx collection, only to find out to their utter disbelief, that none of the trains are original, but all have been modified, cut, glued, and bastardized to make them function.
I'm a Marx purest, meaning I feel that ANY train should remain as manufactured. If I have spoken out of line here, please moderators forgive me, but it breaks my heart to see Ben take a great example of a locomotive very similar to DJ's, in exceptional condition, and because the 'E' unit doesn't work, he cut the wires, and installed a toggle switch to manually operate the 'E' Unit, then drilled a 1/2" hole in the body to mount the switch. I have searched for a mint example of that locomotive for years, and in one fell swoop Ben destroyed the best example I've ever seen. All he had to do was clean the e unit plunger. I've done it a hundred times.
One more thing, he always seems to buy these trains for $5.00 and claims to be the only bidder. I check Marx auctions DAILY on eBay, and even check completed auctions, I can NEVER find any Marx trains like he claims selling for anywhere near what he says.
Why would anyone want to join a hobby then deliberately destroy every train they buy ?

Rant over.

Dan


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok , so for the record, its your stuff so do what makes you happy with it. I have some marx stuff. I love the lithos and simplicity of them. I also like the later scissor couplers. I do remembers benz trains. I didnt mind what he did to his stuff, i wouldent do some of that to mine, but there were his, bought and paid for. The articulated marx train is cool, and i almost bought one a few times. I couldent afford the lionel ones! Have fun mostly and run the trains! Thats what where here for.


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

sjm9911 said:


> Ok , so for the record, its your stuff so do what makes you happy with it. I have some marx stuff. I love the lithos and simplicity of them. I also like the later scissor couplers. I do remembers benz trains. I didnt mind what he did to his stuff, i wouldent do some of that to mine, but there were his, bought and paid for. The articulated marx train is cool, and i almost bought one a few times. I couldent afford the lionel ones! Have fun mostly and run the trains! Thats what where here for.


And I respect your opinion, my only serious concern is who will inherit his collection, or buy it ? I personally would be very upset to pay for chopped up trains.

Dan


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Dan, respectfully, I think you're off base on this one. They are his trains, and he's free to do with then whatever he pleases. It's not purist work, but ... it is his call. You don't have to buy HIS trains. You can buy someone else's ... at a price that is commensurate with the rarity of whatever it is. Likely because many identical ones have long since been tossed in the dumpster; rusted away in the attic; squished under boxes of other stuff; etc.

At least Benz is getting things running again. Not purist, for sure. But they do run. And they are his, paid for. And he's having fun.

And that's a good thing, in my book.

TJ


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Millstonemike said:


> I take it your term quality refers to features, etc. As for Marx quality (i.e., reliability & longevity), I "inherited" some Marx trains a few months ago. They had been in storage some 50 years. After a thorough motor cleaning and lube, both pre-war engines run like they just came out of their box with E-units working 100%.
> 
> The common phrase applied to Marx motors is "They're bulletproof".


Marx (as I'm now learning) had a special kind of quality. Like I wrote before, Marx was a category of model trains in a class by itself. It never really was about competition for realism or weight. 

Lionel and American Flyer (U.S. 1950's) were in competition. Marx was out there being Marx. It's funny but I never really saw this before. Now that I've purchased two complete sets (I have one now the other just arrived at the post office), I'm finding that I'm having more fun with the Marx. There's just something special about those cute tin cars. I even like the sound Marx trains make.

Here's the 1st Marx train I got off ebay. The guy posted it as his childhood set and he offered it BUY-IT-NOW for $20. It was almost on the last day of the auction so I thought there must be something wrong with it. I figured for $20, what the heck.

Here it is and it's nearly mint. Runs perfectly. Now I have to go into town and get the other set (the "snake" train).


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

tjcruiser said:


> Dan, respectfully, I think you're off base on this one. They are his trains, and he's free to do with then whatever he pleases. It's not purist work, but ... it is his call. You don't have to buy HIS trains. You can buy someone else's ... at a price that is commensurate with the rarity of whatever it is. Likely because many identical ones have long since been tossed in the dumpster; rusted away in the attic; squished under boxes of other stuff; etc.
> 
> At least Benz is getting things running again. Not purist, for sure. But they do run. And they are his, paid for. And he's having fun.
> 
> ...


TJ;

I concur they are Benz Trains. However I would like to clarify my point that I do not feel you are seeing.

First I never implied I would be one of those buying his trains. I feel sorry for anyone that does, and finds out too late they are not original. But Hacked together hybrids.

Second, Maybe he gets things running, but his methods do not repair anything,I have repaired countless Marx Loco's, NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS A NON WORKING 'E' Unit. They are very basic, and can be fixed most of the time without any disassembly. If in any event they need repaired, they are very simple to take apart, repair and put back together.

I agree, He has every right to do whatever he pleases with HIS trains. I just don't want any of them.

FYI, in recent videos, he is branching out into Lionel Trains. So you being a new collector of Lionel, according to your Avatar and Byline, beware that you don't buy that prized locomotive you want and find out Benz Trainz owned it first.

I belong to several hobby based forums, Antique Phones, Radio's, and a couple others. One term is used universally in every forum to designate what Benz Trainz does, and that word is FRANKEN---add the hobby name.
Frankjenphone
Frankenradio
Frankentrain.,

Every Marx Locomotive or car that I restore is accompanied by a sticker applied to the interior of the item. 
It clearly states the item has been restored.
I only hope that Benz notes the same when he sells his trains, or his estate makes it clear they are NOT original trains. New collectors always buy a ton of items before they fully understand the in's and Out's of their hobby of choice. Buyer beware of the stellar "To good to be true" Item for sale. 

If it appears that I am overly passionate about Marx trains, Yes maybe I am, but they were a huge part of my childhood, and I don't want that legacy compromised. Is that too much to ask.

If you have not watched any of Benz Trainz videos lately, it is becoming blatantly obvious he gives no attempt to try to repair items back to original condition, instead he goes out of his way to explain how he can make a coupler out of a paper clip rather than replace the broken one. And he is VERY obviously bragging about doing it. 
In my mind that is just wrong. But then not many collect Marx. So I can understand. But He's moved on to Lionel now.

And one more little detail, He came on here for a time, and made it VERY CLEAR he felt our administrators do not know how to run a forum ????

Dan


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

DJ;

Just curious, how long ago did you purchase that Marx set for $20.00 ?

Dan


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Panther said:


> DJ;
> 
> Just curious, how long ago did you purchase that Marx set for $20.00 ?
> 
> Dan


November 23, 2018 off ebay


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok. So the old battle ensues! Ee get what you dont like about what benz traines does, while we might not agree or disagree with it. The mian thing is hes having fun and running trains. I myself have defaced or painted stuff to fit my needs, nothing uncommon but defaced in the sence that a train purist might not like it. It did being me joy to have some custom painted cars fir x mass or a fire train that i otherwise couldent afford. You dont have to like what others do, or even watch there stuff. I dont do things if i dont enjoy them! Ive seen your stuff, im sure tj has also. And its good work, better then i can ever do. But in the end we still enjoy running trains. So , have fun!

Yes and some marx stuff is cool! I like the lionel better but, there is a diffent feel towards the marx stuff and always a place on my track to run it( as long as it dosent have the fat wheels!l)


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Panther said:


> DJ;
> 
> 
> One more thing, he always seems to buy these trains for $5.00 and claims to be the only bidder. I check Marx auctions DAILY on eBay, and even check completed auctions, I can NEVER find any Marx trains like he claims selling for anywhere near what he says.
> ...


I wondered about his prices too so I commented on one of his videos. He doesn't include postage costs and I think ebay considers that the "full price."

The train I posted here was $20 plus $15 postage. When I drive 80 miles one-way to buy a vintage train from someone via Craigslist I don't add the cost of gas and lunch. Postage is a given.

I don't know him personally but he does seem to enjoy recycling pretty bad cases. I go more for keeping my trains original. That's why I almost always buy top condition/tested.


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Chugman said:


> Yes, Mike I wasn't trying to put them down. They were made of sheet metal that was printed or painted with a design on them. They were less expensive, but had a charm unlike any others. I believe the Marx company was very successful in marketing a wide range of toys. I seem to recall from watching the TV show "American Pickers" that early Marx toys are very collectible.
> 
> Art


Oh yes, I also do the storage unit thing and vintage tin toys are always a hit. Some that sold originally for a dollar or two can be worth hundreds today.


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

sjm9911 said:


> Ok. So the old battle ensues! Ee get what you dont like about what benz traines does, while we might not agree or disagree with it. The mian thing is hes having fun and running trains. I myself have defaced or painted stuff to fit my needs, nothing uncommon but defaced in the sence that a train purist might not like it. It did being me joy to have some custom painted cars fir x mass or a fire train that i otherwise couldent afford. You dont have to like what others do, or even watch there stuff. I dont do things if i dont enjoy them! Ive seen your stuff, im sure tj has also. And its good work, better then i can ever do. But in the end we still enjoy running trains. So , have fun!
> 
> Yes and some marx stuff is cool! I like the lionel better but, there is a diffent feel towards the marx stuff and always a place on my track to run it( as long as it dosent have the fat wheels!l)


SJM;

I agree, do with your trains what you wish. My concern is He makes false statements about things like 'E' Units are impossible to fix, and he just by passes them. This is blatantly not true, YET HE ENCOURAGES others to do the bypass, BECAUSE the repair is impossibly hard to do. So new collectors won't try.

Dan


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

DJTrains said:


> I wondered about his prices too so I commented on one of his videos. He doesn't include postage costs and I think ebay considers that the "full price."
> 
> The train I posted here was $20 plus $15 postage. When I drive 80 miles one-way to buy a vintage train from someone via Craigslist I don't add the cost of gas and lunch. Postage is a given.
> 
> I don't know him personally but he does seem to enjoy recycling pretty back cases. I go more for keeping my trains original. That's why I almost always buy top condition/tested.


DJ;

I get that he doesn't include postage, I still find it hard that he claims to have purchased many Marx locomotives for under $5.00. He claims don't ignore the junk. I search Marx DAILY, and also search completed auctions. I have not seen any Marx Locomotive sell for under $10.00, and that was junk. Plus he is ALWAYS the only bidder. I don't buy it. In fact I find the opposite, most Marx Trains are way over priced.

I will just let it go, I just don't like his approach to trains.

Dan


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Panther said:


> DJ;
> 
> I get that he doesn't include postage, I still find it hard that he claims to have purchased many Marx locomotives for under $5.00. He claims don't ignore the junk. I search Marx DAILY, and also search completed auctions. I have not seen any Marx Locomotive sell for under $10.00, and that was junk. Plus he is ALWAYS the only bidder. I don't buy it. In fact I find the opposite, most Marx Trains are way over priced.
> 
> ...


That is a good point. I can't say that I've seen much under $10 myself. Interesting. 

I've just learned the hard way that not all Marx trains are a good buy. My "snake train" came today. Very disappointing. It doesn't run on 0 track or 027. The transformer is weak and so is the train motor. 

I'm going back to Lionel.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

That doesn't sound right. What do you mean it doesn't run on O or 027? You can switch that motor out for a later Marx motor. Marx transformers I don't know if I care much for them.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It should run, check the guage of the wheels. Make sure there uniform, also it might need to be cleaned. And use a diffrent transformer. Clean the wheels . Check if it powers up off the layout. Some motors need time to break back in so to speak after they havent been run in years.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

You may also need to open the motor a bit to clean & relub, check the wiring.


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

I edited my comment above because I think I got carried away. It's so different from what I expected.

What happened on 0 track was it made a grinding noise and produced a bunch of sparks. I kept thinking some wheels were off but they weren't. 

I noticed it was the drive wheel sprocket that seems to be the problem.

It runs better on 027 track but the original transformer just isn't producing. But I have others so that's no big deal.

I tries a Lionel 90 Watt transformer and it made the engine move slowly around the 027 with lots of sparks. I checked the wheels and they all turn easily. But again, it's that sprocket wheel.

I'll be super busy the next few days but when I can I'll post more pictures and ask more questions if I can't solve the issues. 

By next week I should be out of panic mode :laugh:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes something is shorting out. Maybe an exposed wire touching the shell. Clean the wheels, chect it out , it will run eventually. If not send it to benz trains😉


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

balidas said:


> That doesn't sound right. What do you mean it doesn't run on O or 027? You can switch that motor out for a later Marx motor. Marx transformers I don't know if I care much for them.


Yes, I recently read that many Marx parts are interchangeable. 

This engine makes grinding noise like I was holding it with my hand and letting the drive sprocket wheel grind on metal. It also throws sparks like crazy from the drive wheel.

The worst is on 0 track. It will only move if I start it with my hand and then it only travels a short distance and stops. On 027 it will move slowly over the track if my good Lionel transformer is set on max.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

I wonder if that sprocket is pressed tight against the motor frame.

I've switched out a few of the fat gear motors with the later motors. You will find them from time to time on the bay.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Panther said:


> SJM;
> 
> I agree, do with your trains what you wish. My concern is He makes false statements about things like 'E' Units are impossible to fix, and he just by passes them. This is blatantly not true, YET HE ENCOURAGES others to do the bypass, BECAUSE the repair is impossibly hard to do. So new collectors won't try.
> 
> Dan


Dan, I see your point, but in the end (and in my opinion), it comes down to this: buyer beware, and buyer be educated. I've bought a LOT of Lionel stuff on ebay. When I first started the game, I was naive, and bought stuff without much discretion. Upon arrival, things often weren't quite what I thought they'd be. But, I learned from these early-road trials, and the experiences taught me a lot. Now, a bit longer in the tooth with the Lionel restoration game, I pay a lot more attention to photos ... and very often spot things on a listing that are not mentioned or often described erroneously. Photos are my best tool, and I use them wisely. If a seller's photos are few, and/or poor, I simply let the item pass.

As for restoration work on my end ...

I've done several restorations to "purist" specs, to the best of my abilities. And, conversely, I've done several where I've simply had fun ... changed colors, added some trim detail, etc. In the end, both end-products make me quite happy. I know what's what. And, years from now, when my little collection may fall into new hands, I trust that a discerning buyer will be able to identify what's original, what's near-original restoration, and what's simply having-fun.

Further, I document all of my projects here on MTF, with just about everything I do spelled out publicly.

I'll also add this ...

I think I (and others) have saved a LOT of junk that would have otherwise rusted away to dust, and/or been tossed in a dumpster. I take pride in getting these old (1930's) trains running again, in fine and shiny form, save for generations ahead. I hope.

My two cents, anyway.

TJ


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

tjcruiser said:


> ... I've done several restorations to "purist" specs, to the best of my abilities. And, conversely, I've done several where I've simply had fun ... changed colors, added some trim detail, etc. In the end, both end-products make me quite happy. ...
> 
> TJ


That's were I'm at. Having seen some of Panther's restorations, I hesitate to use that word for my efforts. "Customization" and "refurbishment" come to mind for some of my soon to be published efforts.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Tj is selling himself short. As always , he can and has brought life into basicly what other people have thrown away. Stuff i wouldent even attempt to tinker with. Anything can be fixed....you just need the right tool box and this fourm.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> Dan, I see your point, but in the end (and in my opinion), it comes down to this: buyer beware, and buyer be educated. I've bought a LOT of Lionel stuff on ebay. When I first started the game, I was naive, and bought stuff without much discretion. Upon arrival, things often weren't quite what I thought they'd be. But, I learned from these early-road trials, and the experiences taught me a lot. Now, a bit longer in the tooth with the Lionel restoration game, I pay a lot more attention to photos ... and very often spot things on a listing that are not mentioned or often described erroneously. Photos are my best tool, and I use them wisely.
> TJ


I recently bought this Marx boxcar off the bay because I don't have one. When I got it I was surprised to find a huge glob of wax on one corner of the roof & side. If I had looked through all the pics I would've seen that but lately my attention has been spread thin so I missed it. Now I have to figure how to remove the wax without too much damage to the litho. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ma...p6B3jYxFuQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Millstonemike, The transformers hum because the don’t know the words....Sorry, I couldn’t resist!!!


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

TJ;
I think the loco needs a good clean and lube. I see no reason why that sprocket should interfere with it running. The sparks are typical of a motor trying to move but restricted, thus the wheels spark. 
I also take some of the less than mint Marx items and customize them, but that is OK, what I have issues with is leaving them stock in appearance and butchered inside.

Balidas;
The wax could be removed with a hair dryer set low, or you could simply try very warm water in thew sink. Just blow the water off after you are finished. I wash my used Marx stuff in Soap and water, ( Not the engines ) then dry them. The motors I disassemble and soak in carburetor cleaner for 30 minutes, the warm soapy water, and compressed air. 

Dan


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

sjm9911 said:


> Tj is selling himself short. As always , he can and has brought life into basicly what other people have thrown away. Stuff i wouldent even attempt to tinker with. Anything can be fixed....you just need the right tool box and this fourm.


That's very kind of you, SJM. I appreciate the atta-boy. Truly.



teledoc said:


> Millstonemike, The transformers hum because the don’t know the words....Sorry, I couldn’t resist!!!


OMG -- TOO FUNNY!

And, Dan, I'm sure we can agree on this:

Guys like us enjoy a forum like this where we can all chime in with our own thoughts, ideas, projects, etc. We may not always agree on all counts, but we all do share a love of model trains in common. And most of us are happy to engage in polite and productive dialog and expand our own thinking and horizons a bit more.

In that, we're all winners.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

Yes, absolutely, With one disclaimer, PLEASE if you sell those modified trains, make sure it's clear in the listing, and just because one may not be able to fix something, Please don't encourage others to chop stuff up to get them running quickly. I have torn Marx trains down to the individual part, and have not found one single element that I could NOT fix, or replace with another part. It takes time, and time that i think is what the hobby SHOULD be about. At some point a collector may become serious and realize how many bad choices they have made by compromising in the past.
JMHO,. and trying to ruffle any feathers, like many have said, it's their trains, they can do what they want. 
Just PLEASE keep in mind, THEY DON'T MAKE THEM ANYMORE. The supply is finite. When it's ruined it's ruined for ever, and everyone.

Dan


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## WildcatRR (Jul 28, 2013)

One man's junk another man's treasure. Just live and let live.


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## Panther (Oct 5, 2015)

PLEASE everyone this is a joke.
Dan

https://gfycat.com/enchantedscarcebasenji


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