# Marx 1405 Train Master Block Signal



## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

One of the items included in a relatively recent purchase was a Marx 1405 Train Master Block Signal, unfortunately not in the condition shown in the attached photo. The insulation on every wire in the cord between the controller and signal is very brittle and all wires were unsoldered from the signal as if someone intended to replace the cord and never got around to it. 

I would like to refurbish and rewire the signal and controller but have been unable to locate a wiring diagram. Does anyone have one they could share with me, or does anyone know who I might contact for information?











Thank you, swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

I have one myself. I'll have to open mine up to trace the wiring but the coloured buttons on the controller correspond to the coloured lights in the signal. At the moment I don't remember what the white button is for.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you very much for the response. Any additional information you can provide is greatly appreciated.

swede


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Maybe this will help

Also the original description


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you for the post and information, T-Man. I have not carefully reviewed the 454 instruction sheet against my disassembled 1405 but will do so in the coming days. Since the wiring internal to the signal base was unsoldered at each terminal point, I continue to think my work is cut out for me without an actual wiring diagram. 

swede


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Take it apart with pictures. From there you can figure it out. I don't have one but the one I do was just a switch with lights. I did not have a selayed switch like the Lionel Block signal does.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks for the response, T-Man, and especially for sticking with me. I appreciate it very much.

As indicated earlier, the cable between the controller and signal base was severed and the insulation on the individual wires in the cable, being brittle, turns to dust with with most gentle touch. To make matters worse, no wires were connected to the underside of the signal base or the track. In fact, after disassembling the signal mechanism, I am not certain if all of the internal wiring of the mechanism is present or where the wires that are present, but disconnected, go to.

I have attached several photos of what I have to work with in hopes that you or others can provide additional guidance.


Photo 1 shows the essential parts I have to work with (the controller base plate was rewired before the photo was taken)

Photo 2 shows the controller base plate with the original wiring

Photo 3 shows the red, yellow and green wiring from the rear plate of the signal mechanism and the exit wires to feed the red, green and yellow lamps. I believe the red and green exit wires need to be switched.

Photo 4 shows 4 black internal signal mechanism wires not connected to anything. There are three solenoids in the signal mechanism. All three are operational. The second wires for coil 1 and 2 are properly secured. Both wires for coil 3 are unconnected. I plan to connect one of the wires to the same post as the second wires of coil 1 and 2. That leaves 3 black coil wires to be connected to something.

Photo 5 shows the bottom of a 1405 signal I spotted on Ebay, today. I have labeled the wires that were visible to me. I believe the wires marked B?1, B?2 and B?3 are the second coil wires from the three coils. If that is true, I don't know which goes where. Also, I don't see the second black wire from the controller cable and believe it is hidden from view and feeds directly to the signal mechanism. If so, what does it connect to? Likewise, the wire marked R?? feeds directly to the signal mechanism. What does it connect to? 

Am looking forward to whatever assistance can be provided.









































Thank you, swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Ok finally located my rig & got it opened up. Here is what I found;

The grey wire connected to the 2nd contact over from the left goes to the joint you labeled "green should be red" in the pic labeled 5a. The yellow button, that slows down the train shares the 2nd & 3rd contact points.

Again in the pic 5A, you have 2 wires labeled red & yellow, on the other side of the red wire you're missing a 3rd wire that goes to one of the lamps.

The tan wire is common & connects to the outside rails.

Again in pic 5A, at the panel where you have in yellow letters, red, yellow, green, there should be a wire that goes from the red contact to the middle rail, getting the units power from the track.

In the pic 8A, the outermost coil wire goes down also to the middle rail, drawing it's track power. I'm thinking the 2nd coil wire will connect to one of the black wires for the white button which is direction control. I'll have to split open my loom to trace them to be sure.

That's all I got for the moment. I'll try to take & post some good pix tomorrow.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Oh yea, in answer to one of your questions, the middle screw post is not insulated from the metal base.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you for the responses and assistance, Balidas.

1) "The grey wire connected to the 2nd contact over from the left goes to the joint you labeled "green should be red" in the pic labeled 5a." Have revised 5A to indicate.

2) "The yellow button, that slows down the train shares the 2nd & 3rd contact points." Understood.

3) "Again in the pic 5A, you have 2 wires labeled red & yellow, on the other side of the red wire you're missing a 3rd wire that goes to one of the lamps." Have revised 5A to indicate.

4) "The tan wire is common & connects to the outside rails." Understood.

5) "Again in pic 5A, at the panel where you have in yellow letters, red, yellow, green, there should be a wire that goes from the red contact to the middle rail, getting the units power from the track." Have revised 5A to indicate.

6) "In the pic 8A, the outermost coil wire goes down also to the middle rail, drawing it's track power." Please take a look at photo 5 (Marx controller base wiring2A) in my previous post. There is only one black wire connected to the center track and it appears to come from the controller cable, not the coil. Also look at photo 2 of this post (Marx controller base wiring3), that also came from an Ebay post and, to me, more clearly shows the black wire attached to the center rail comes from the control cable, not the coil.

7) "the middle screw post is not insulated from the metal base." Understood

Please do not damage or destroy any of your equipment attempting to further help clarify the necessary wiring.

















Thank you, again, swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

rrswede said:


> Thank you for the responses and assistance, Balidas.
> 
> 6) "In the pic 8A, the outermost coil wire goes down also to the middle rail, drawing it's track power." Please take a look at photo 5 (Marx controller base wiring2A) in my previous post. There is only one black wire connected to the center track and it appears to come from the controller cable, not the coil. Also look at photo 2 of this post (Marx controller base wiring3), that also came from an Ebay post and, to me, more clearly shows the black wire attached to the center rail comes from the control cable, not the coil.
> 
> ...


You are quite Welcome. I'm happy to help where I can.

You are correct in that, I should've said the outer coil wire runs down & out to the middle post that is not insulated from the base.

The black wire that comes from the middle rail does go into the control panel & I suspect it connects to one of the 2 black wires associated with the white directional control button.

I have always planned on rewiring this thing. What's left of the insulation is cracked anyway so to split the loom is no issue for me. Besides, I want to be as familiar with this unit as I can.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you for the response, Balidas. If you do open the controller, please let me know if the center track is fed by the black wire on the top or bottom edge of the controller base.

There still has to be a second black wire from the controller cable that connects inside the signal mechanism and has not been accounted for. Do you know where it goes?

Again, thank you for the assistance.

swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Ok, got the loom apart. What a mess. The insulation from every wire was dust. No way I coulda not done this. So......

The black wire from the middle rail goes to the bottom of the white button contact marked black 1. Black 2 goes from the contact to the joint you have labeled "green" in pic 5A.

In pic base A, the green wire runs to the outer screw post.

The yellow wire runs to the middle post & connects with the outer coil 3 wire.

The red wire runs to the inner post & connects with coil 2.

In pic 8A, the wire marked coil 3 that goes to the back of the coil connects also to the outer post with the green wire.

Coil 1 connects to the top of the relay? at the wire you have marked "red".

Coil 2 connects to the inner post with the red wire. 

You would probably do well to rewire your unit. While splitting the loom, I was thinking that it is quite possible the material could contain asbestos. Be careful with that.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you for the response and new information. Am almost there:

Understood each of the points in your post and the severed cable had been tossed into the garbage early on.

I have attached a photo of the three post connector components I have and would appreciate a review to make sure I have them in the correct order. I am guessing that the post screw and black rubber boot are inserted through the holes in the base with the thin insulator then placed on the screw (in the case of post 1 and 3), followed by the metal washer and then the nut. Is that correct?









Thanks, again, swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Yes the posts are correct. The 3 thick rubber washers go underneath the base & the 2 plastic washers go on top of the base.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Here is my tangled web;










What I would like to do is figure out how to replace the old relay with a new electronic one.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you for the response.

Been out all day. Will start putting things together over the weekend and let you know how I fare.

Am sure my wire cable would have looked identical to yours if I had attempted to remove the cloth cable cover. All I did was snip it at the controller. The other end had previously been cut and the wires removed from the signal.

Wish I had the knowledge to design and fabricate electronic devices. I can follow directions pretty well but don't know what most electronic components do or how they are combined to fabricate a device.

Thanks, again

swede


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

If you come up with an inexpensive relay design that could take the place of a whistle relay, I would be interested in building one.

swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

rrswede said:


> If you come up with an inexpensive relay design that could take the place of a whistle relay, I would be interested in building one.
> 
> swede



Yea, I wish I knew how to figure out such things. 

What I did do tho is copy all your pix & my text so I had a guide when I rewire or if anyone else would have questions. When I first got mine, I found no info whatsoever.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

After the last post, I temporarily connected all the various wires as Balidas indicated, created a test strip by adding one additional piece of track, inserted the three track connectors as T-Man's directions indicated, but did not make the final three connections from the signal base to the track connectors. I applied 7 VAC, toggled the three loose wires to the appropriate track connectors and, I think, got the red, yellow and green lamps to cycle properly. 

I was so happy, I called it quits for the night and will do additional tests over the weekend.

Will report results.

swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that. Nice to know the relay is still working.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Permanently reconnected all wires, reassembled the signal, secured the tabs and retested the unit. Was sure it would function as it did for the test. WRONG!! The signal does not cycle as it did in the test and the yellow lamp does not come on. Obviously I messed something up and, as much as I don't want to do it, the signal will have to be opened up again. Perhaps tomorrow or the next day.

swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Before you take it apart & if you haven't done so already, take a continuity test to check for a short. If that works out then take off the screw posts & test each one to see if they aren't the problem.


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Am very happy you chimed in, Balidas. No, I have not taken things apart but without your suggestion, I probably would have. I'll do some preliminary work tomorrow or the next day.

Thank you, swede


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Got tied up with the Holidays and some other projects including a later Marx Block Signal but got back to the 1405 over the weekend. 

I found two problems with my rework. First, I was not getting a good connection between the middle post and the base because I had repainted the base and had not removed enough paint where the post makes contact with the base. Second, I replaced the wires feeding the three lamps and left the wires too long where they connect at the top of the coil assembly. The wires interfered with easy movement of the slide mechanism that provides an electrical path to each of the three lamp wires.

After making corrections, I did what testing I could think of, buttoned everything back up and will return the signal to my friend, the owner. 

This was an enjoyable project and I'd like to offer special thanks to Balidas for all the assistance.

swede


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm glad to hear it works & was happy to give some help, especially since I learned in the process.


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