# Using DC on a DCC wired layout



## 1943Mike (12 mo ago)

Hi all. I'm new to the hobby and have already spent a lot of money on lumber, a few locomotives, some rolling stock, both a DC transformer/power pack and a DCC starter set (NCE Power Cab NCE5240025). I'm awaiting most of my track (all Kato), a couple more locomotives (one DCC equipped - a diesel, and the other a Bachmann 4-8-4 steamer with no chance that I'd attempt to install a decoder). I am also waiting for a crosscut saw from Amazon so, although I spent around $250 at Home Depot a couple days ago, I haven't yet started building the layout (which will be about 3' x 5'). 

I am building the layout for DCC but wondered if it's possible to switch over to DC from time to time to see my steamers running? I don't want to get too complex with my wiring - Zeus only knows I'm having enough headaches learning the lingo of the hobby - especially the wiring - so I was hoping to just use the same wiring that I'm going to set up for my DCC layout and just unhook ( or use some kind of switch) the DCC and hook up ( or switch over to) my DC transformer when I want to run non-decoder locomotives. 

I should have mentioned that I also bought some locomotives on eBay (some with rolling stock) that are not decoder compatible - or at least not by me. They're old (I think Atlas - a 2-8-2, a 4-6-2, and the Bachmann I referred to in my first paragraph. 

I'm a retired special ed. (high school) teacher who has had hiking, photography, and building plastic ship, aircraft, and armor models as his hobbies. I am recovering from a couple of small strokes last November and December and had a carotid endarterectomy a month ago so I'm taking up this hobby as a new, less stressful interest. 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Mike


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

an ordinary DPDT switch will take care of your needs .. it's advisable to get one with 'center off' if you can,


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

As long as your layout doesn't have any reverse loops, or other complex things that would create polarity problems, then yes... Doing what you describe is not a problem.

Even with polarity issues, it can be done, but it gets much more complicated.


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## 1943Mike (12 mo ago)

First, Thanks wvgca for an answer to what I was hoping could be done. 
Second, Thanks Jeff. What are reverse loops? Are they like a figure 8? (sorry I don't know too much about all this yet - but I'm reading and learning). Also, would a double crossover present problems? How about just left and right turnouts?


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

Reverse loop = track that goes into the facing point of a turnout and loops around to come back into the branch portion of the same turnout. If you trace one rail it goes around the loop and becomes the other rail, a bad thing for DC or DCC electrically. A turntable can also be a reverse loop. A figure eight is not. If you have a dogbone style layout then putting crossovers on the straight sections would create a reverse loop.


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## 1943Mike (12 mo ago)

Thanks Tim.

I just saw this on the 'net. I should've done a little research before asking such a basic question. Here's what I found:

Google Image Result for https://hackster.imgix.net/uploads/attachments/830132/loophackster_ZsbXpiG5rj.gif?auto=compress&gifq=35&w=1280&h=960&fit=max


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

http://www.rpc-electronics.com/dcdccswitch.php



That will help simplify it for you. I'm planning this myself. As Mentioned, no reverse loops or anything complex or out gets more difficult. My layout is essentially just a loop. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Well... if you have polarity issues, it will create a problem regardless of DC or DCC power. But it's often a lot simpler to solve the problem in DCC. In that case, being ably to switch from DC to DCC would be more problematic.

The best thing to do would be for you to draft up a few track layouts and let us have a look to see if you will have any polarity issues.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, a DPDT toggle switch can be used to change
your layout from DCC to DC. However...you must
be very careful that you NEVER leave a DC loco
parked on a LIVE DCC track. The alternating current of
DCC will quickly damage the DC loco motor. Some
DC locos will run on a DCC track. You'll have to 
test yours. There are very few locos that cannot
be upgraded to DCC. There are smaller decoders
designed for N and Z scale locos that may be
helpful for you.

Don


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## 1943Mike (12 mo ago)

Don, Thanks for the heads up/warning regarding leaving DC locos on a live DCC track. I've read that very same admonition before somewhere. 
You also said
"There are very few locos that cannot
be upgraded to DCC. There are smaller decoders
designed for N and Z scale locos that may be
helpful for you."

I sure wish someone could point me in a direction to find those decoders that would work (without too elaborate an operation to install them) in my three steam and one diesel locomotives. The diesel is an RS1 per Kato whom I emailed when asking about it. They told me it is actually an Atlas locomotive for which they made the motors. It's old. Two of the steamers are Atlas (according to the seller on eBay) and the one I received today (a few minutes ago) is a Bachmann. I'll attach photos I've just taken of all four.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

As I understand it, "aftermarket" decoders for Bachmann steamers go in the tender - but not all tenders are large enough. I haven't tried it (because I don't have DCC), but this is considered a reliable source:

Bachmann (China) USRA 0-6-0 & Prairie 2-6-2 (spookshow.net) 

if you keep scrolling down you will find instructions to put a decoder in the tender of a Bachmann 2-6-2. I would think his advice would be applicable for other Bachmann steamers with a "DCC Ready" tender. If you need a "Spectrum" tender, they do show up on Ebay. They haven't been sold by Bachmann or places like modeltrainstuff.com for years.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The key question is whether your locomotives are DCC-Ready or not. Basically, this means that all the groundwork has been done to prep the loco to receive the decoder, including, in many cases, installing a socket to receive a plugin decoder. The RS-1 might be such a loco, I'm guessing the others are not. The absence of a wiring harness between the tender and the loco is a pretty good giveaway.

I'm afraid that none of these will be a simple decoder install. You will have to install the decoder in the tender and create a wiring harness to carry commands to the lighting and motor in the boiler of the locomotive. This is one of those cases where it might be a good idea to see if you have a hobby shop near you that will do the install for you (Tom's Trains of Connecticut will do it for $10 plus the cost of the decoder if you buy the decoder from him-- although it's been a while since I had them do one; may be more now).  If not, there are places you can ship you loco who will do it (Litchfield Station, for one), but that obviously costs more.


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## 1943Mike (12 mo ago)

GNfan and CTVallyeyRR, 

Thanks for the information. The more I think about my starting this hobby the more I realize I simply want to enjoy watching the little trains wend their way around whatever little (2'-6" x 4' 6" or maybe an inch or two larger on either or both dimensions) layout I build. So, I'll not be fooling around with attempting to install decoders in old steamers. I'll build my layout with a DPDT switch if I decide it's worth it to add a DC transformer to my DCC layout Just too much bother at my age to tear these little guys apart without the guarantee that the decoder will work after I'm done. Maybe I'll just display the steamers on an insulated piece of track in some sort of train museum I build on the layout. I have ordered and am expecting another locomotive (diesel) from Lombard Hobbies in the next few days. It is DCC - has the decoder built in it. I think I'll just stick to DCC locomotives or DCC friendly diesels in the future.


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## DeepSpaced (12 mo ago)

Mike,

Why not ask around at your LHS, LTS or local club? There may be someone that can perform the decoder installation for you for a reasonable fee. That same person may also be able to service the engines to ensure that they are performing their best.


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## 1943Mike (12 mo ago)

DeepSpaced said:


> Mike,
> 
> Why not ask around at your LHS, LTS or local club? There may be someone that can perform the decoder installation for you for a reasonable fee. That same person may also be able to service the engines to ensure that they are performing their best.


DeepSpaced, 

Thanks for chiming in. I'd like to visit a local hobby shop but, at least for model RR, there aren't any here in Salem, OR. There used to be a hobby shop that might have had trains but it no longer exists. Even the Willamette Valley Model RR and Museum is closed - probably having something to do with the $#%&@ virus, but closed nonetheless. There is also a Hobby Lobby but the guy to whom I just spoke when I asked him about N scale trains didn't understand what N scale meant. I explained that it was not a brand but a size. He checked and said they have two Bachmann N scale trains in stock but admitted that, although he's in charge of the hobbies dept., he knew nothing about model trains. So, for the moment, I'm SOL except for help from forums like this - for which I'm grateful.

Mike.


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

Not to steal the OP's thread but this is the same predicament I find myself in, just retired and pulled out my 12-15 old layout.
I built it DC as at least I kinda sorta maybe understand that and DCC was out of my wheel house at the time and probably still is.
Come to present day where DCC has surpassed DC, in most cases in hobby shops, and I find myself hand cuffed when buying new locos.
I was in a train shop on Sat where the owner cautioned me not to run DCC locos on DC track as it will damage the electronics. At least this is how I understood his comments.
So I have to hope to trip over new old stock DC locos or hope the used isn't some burned out hulk if I want to buy or replace.
Technology is not my friend....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

GTW son said:


> Not to steal the OP's thread but this is the same predicament I find myself in, just retired and pulled out my 12-15 old layout.
> I built it DC as at least I kinda sorta maybe understand that and DCC was out of my wheel house at the time and probably still is.
> Come to present day where DCC has surpassed DC, in most cases in hobby shops, and I find myself hand cuffed when buying new locos.
> I was in a train shop on Sat where the owner cautioned me not to run DCC locos on DC track as it will damage the electronics. At least this is how I understood his comments.
> ...


Well, he's wrong (or you misunderstood him). If ALL DCC decoders currently being sold aren't "dual mode" (that is, capable of running on either DC or DCC), then it's durned near all of them. Unless you are unfortunate enough to acquire NOS (New, Old Stock) that has been sitting around for a while unsold. And by a while, I mean 10 years or so. The reverse is not true -- DCC is not kind to most older DC-only locos, but you can certainly use a DCC loco on DC track.

Technology doesn't need to be your friend (although a "I'll never understand this" mindset doesn't help). As I just posted on another thread where you said more or less the same thing, at its most basic level, DCC is no harder than DC. If you can hook up and reasonably understand DC wiring, then DCC is no different. When I upgraded to DCC, I did exactly what the folks at MRC said: I disconnected track power from my DC power pack and connected it to the Prodigy Express, and bingo: I was in DCC. Initial programming of my DCC-capable locos was as easy as this: put loco on programming track. Hit the "Pgm" button, enter the desired locomotive address (I use the locomotive cab number), and hit ENTER 4 times; once to accept the address just entered, and 3 more times to accept the default settings for starting, max and mid voltage, and then the Pgm key again to exit programming mode. Repeat for all locos (you just need a different address for each). Yes, converting my non-DCC locos to DCC took somewhat longer (I had my LHS do a couple), and I did eventually go back and adjust the voltage settings, but it wasn't NECESSARY to get started.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Mucho agree with CT...but I want to emphasize that allowing
a DC loco to sit idle on a DCC track will likely cause
serious damage to the loco. Don't do it. The best advice,
if you have a DCC track...remove DC locos when they are
not running.

Don

Don


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

I'm going to go with the, I misunderstood him....
Lets get back to 1943Mike's questions to this forum.


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