# (07/12/21) Santa Fe F3 Diesel Locomotive from Menards!



## Menards (Oct 8, 2015)

*Feedback Wanted*
These engines have been in development for several years and delayed further by COVID-19.

This limited edition is our first locomotive, and we want to know your opinion of the model's appearance, functionality, reliability, performance, value, and most of all, did you have fun running it? This will help guide us in the future.

Please email your thoughts and feedback to Ray at *[email protected]*

Remember, the purpose of this test run is to gather feedback. The more people who get one, the better. With this in mind, and because the supply is so limited, we ask that you limit your purchase to one engine per customer.

*Features*

Very limited - Only 200 produced
Two powerful motors - Great for pulling!
Easy-to-use remote control with forward/reverse, horn, bells, and crew commentary
Adjust volume with a dial on the side of the controller
Call and response audio between engineer, fireman, and dispatcher (25 phrases)
Directional lighting illuminates going forward and backwards and lighted number boards
Rugged stamped-steel frame
Metal trucks with die-cast frames
Realistic train sounds with on/off switch (located on underside of engine)
Locomotive Weight: 2lb. 12 oz.
Locomotive Dimensions: 13"L x 2-1/2"W x 3-1/2"H (not including horns)








*Get on board with the test run of this brand new locomotive from Menards!

Shop Now >


The Iconic F3 Locomotive*
The classic F3 locomotive hails design from the Golden Age of American railroading and offers mighty O gauge action with two-motor power for hauling long trains.

The F3 is an iconic locomotive, often dubbed "the diesel that did it," in the transition from steam to diesel locomotives. The Menards F3 features America's most recognized railway graphics - the classic Santa Fe War-Bonnet livery that set a new visual standard for railway graphic design.


*Not Just a Pretty Face*
This precision crafted model has two powered motors, a rugged die-cast metal frame, metal truck side-frames, and power pickup rollers on each wheel set.

The F3 comes equipped with crew figures in the illuminated cab. Safety is assured along the line with a bright LED headlight, backup light, and classification lighting. The model has working front and rear couplers.

Cast-in detailing includes portholes, rivet and seam detail, and exhaust and radiator fans.

The model showcases premium painting and decoration of the complex Santa Fe silver, black, red, and yellow livery.

The F3 measures 13 inches long and easily operates on O-31 diameter curves, and all contemporary track brands.


*Radio-Equipped*
The F3 comes with an easy-to-use hand-held wireless controller. Easy for youngsters or adults to hold and use.

Easy rotating forward-reverse directional control
Select horn or bell sounds
Trigger crew communications
Adjustable volume control
Quick battery replacement


*In case you missed it, I've attached today's Menards Train email. If you'd like to sign up for these, click here.*


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Lee this seems like a good one for you to try out.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

If there was a store near me I would pick one up to try out. Shipping and lack of a useable rebate gives me pause though. I am curious what they have for motors and if the electronics could be used in other engines?

Pete


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

“The diesels that did it” were actually EMC FT units, not EMD F3’s…..just sayin’….


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

I'm not a Santa Fe guy but I bought one. For $150, I'll give it a whirl.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

At that price they are going to sell out fast. Mine is ordered. Remote looks a lot like a Lionel LC/LC+.

People have wished for Menards locomotives for some time. Will be interesting to see it. Hope it does not have the same problems that Lionel 2 motor LC+ diesels had a few years back.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

I ordered one. Sadly in the same boat as the rebates are mostly worthless to me here in SC, but I do have family in OH, so there is an off chance maybe on a trip home I can use them if they don't expire.
The bad, it cost me $170 tax, title, shipping, handling, etc....., a really hard pill to swallow given this is basically a Lionchief. Million dollar question, will it work with the universal remote?
The good:
There are some interesting aspects since they appear to have plated the trucks, and another thing I like is the sideframe screws are facing you so you have a much easier time replacing traction tires.
Also looks like a hex capscrew on the truck to motor mount screw in front of the pickup roller? I have no issue with capscrews- wondering how others might feel about mixed tools to work on one though?
Maybe that's intentional to keep the typical child user from loosening that screw, but still access to normal screws they might need more often like the sideframes?

Blatantly borrowed picture from the other place....


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

And, it may not be officially Lionchief- but the same designer was probably contributing, that's pretty darn near the same shape and basic design, the twist is the volume control at the remote?
In a way, that might be better. All fun things to try and contemplate, so happy to give feedback once we get one.
Also, nice touch with Jack on the back!!









Compared to an actual Lionel genuine LC remote, yes, they are different, but it's not that different.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Hmm, a thought, that power switch on the handle part, works fine if gripping right handed?, wondering how well that works for lefties? Just picture holding it, right hand, that's your thumb on the switch side, left handed, that's a little different and you might be right on the switch? Heck, the more I look, that's probably a bad place to put it, but only time and real world holding it and using it by others will really drive home if that's good or bad placement.


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## Menards (Oct 8, 2015)

That's right, all 200 sold out in less than 3 hours. Wow!

I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!

Thank you,
Mark the Menards Train Guy


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

Man these sold out REAL fast. First posting I had seen was 4 hours ago as of the writing of this reply. I do hope folks who bought one will critique this engine on MTF.


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## Taylor622 (Jan 31, 2013)

Glad I moved fast. I have a confirmed order. Menards makes good stuff. $175 delivered is very good. I’ve paid more for non running postwar Lionel. I’ll see how it handles desert conditions and steep western grades with inexperienced engineers.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Does it have a prime mover sound? I didn't hear one. I can live with smoke and great detail in a low-cost loco to run with a remote like that, but bell, whistle, and talking alone, with no engine soundwon't do it for me.


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## Menards (Oct 8, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Does it have a prime mover sound? I didn't hear one. I can live with smoke and great detail in a low-cost loco to run with a remote like that, but bell, whistle, and talking won't do it for me.


I'm not familiar with prime mover sounds but this engine does have the normal locomotive sounds. They were just tuned off for the video.
-Mark the Menards Train Guy


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Mark, it would be good if you did a video demonstrating the rest of the sounds the locomotive has.
Not sure I am in the majority but as impressive as the crew/tower com talk was, I am more interested in the sound of the horn and the engine sounds.

Pete


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## Menards (Oct 8, 2015)

Norton said:


> Mark, it would be good if you did a video demonstrating the rest of the sounds the locomotive has.
> Not sure I am in the majority but as impressive as the crew/tower com talk was, I am more interested in the sound of the horn and the engine sounds.
> 
> Pete


Very good idea. I will definitely do that when we go into production with the next batch (after feedback is addressed).

It is a bit of a moot point for these since they are sold out. 

Thank you,
Mark the Menards Train Guy


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## x_doug_x (Jun 21, 2010)

I was about to purchase one and seen they were sold out, if you come across one more, please message me.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Well bowl me over and slap me upside the head! Menard's finally doing a loco????  

I'd be in for one or two in a good Rock Island paint scheme. 

One or two? Who am I kidding? Maybe ten or twelve! 

Keep in mind, I said GOOD R.I. scheme. NOT that bankruptcy blue crud!


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

The crew talk sounds are horrible! After all of these years of goofy crew talk sounds, it looks someone could take the hint and do something right!


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Might want to hit the flashy bling couplers with some rust paint.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Menards said:


> Very good idea. I will definitely do that when we go into production with the next batch (after feedback is addressed).
> 
> It is a bit of a moot point for these since they are sold out.
> 
> ...


Mark, is that engineer's voice Dave Corbett? That voice sounds like his from the Tinplate Legends in Action Part 2 video (which is rerun constantly on RFD-TV).


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Another F3. How about an FP9 or some such.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, if it has prime mover (engine) sounds, it will probably sell well and I will buy at least a couple. Menards ought to order a lot more to sell including in that nice Santa Fe Warbonnet.

As to the shape and all of the remote, the similarity with Lionels strikes me as nothing more than very smart product design. It nearly always works to copy the market leader with a successful innovation.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

I would think it's exactly the same as Lionel's remote with the exception of the button/knob - an existing, rebranded product. I don't see how an original design, copy or otherwise, could be offered at this price point.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

Those interested should inquire if it's the LionChief system, and thus possibly controllable by the LionChief app and the universal remote. Should be in the manual, I suppose. I can wait to find out .


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Interesting thought regarding Lionchief. If it is, its most likely generation 1 Lionchief. They make no mention of transformer control and its also the most likely version Lionel would be interested in selling.

Pete


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Hard to say if I would buy any. Reviews here would help me decide. If it basically Railking quality and detail (meaning a little less but still acceptable) and priced under $200, sure. I don’t need the remote control though as I run conventional using MTH Z transformers.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Might be a moot point now……all sold out……


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

I like the volume control wheel. That's much better than the tricky way you have to do it on a LionChief remote.

Maybe Mark the Menard's guy can answer about what remote control system this is?

Last, it would be fantastic if Menards would produce F3s in pain schemes seldom or never done by the other brands. Menards has been very good about offering cars in upper midwest liveries. We need that in engines also!


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> Might be a moot point now……all sold out……


This run. Sounds to me like they will asses user feedback and make additional run(s) in the future.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

A fantasy paint scheme for these new Menards engines would be an F3 would be a BNSF orange, black, yellow scheme. I know that the BNSF merger happened way, way after the F3's ruled the rails but I think it would look good as a Fantasy paint scheme.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I am always fascinated by the lack of transparency from the industry. Especially when it comes to production and demand. So it was interesting to see that all 200 (obviously a known quantifiable amount) sold out within 2 hours. 
This means to me that O Scale folks pay attention to Menards offerings and consider their O Scale products a valid component of the hobby. 
We have no idea what is a good number for Lionel, Atlas or previously MTH. Or Williams. 
Is 200 a high number, low or about average for any particular BTO from Lionel? 
All I have to go in is perhaps 3rd Rail where they openly state how many of a proposed model they need for viability and that they occasionally don’t make something because of low demand. 
Also, does the 200 gone fast support the idea of curve and features at that price point? O scale hobbyists always struggle with size of the layout and available room for the layout. I was on the fence 7 years ago between being primarily an O27 O31 hobbyist due to size of layout (17 x 7). My current room looks like it will be 24 x 11. 
So with RailKing 100% gone - MTH seems focused on Premier offerings to LHS dealers - Menards seems poised to take over this segment. Lionel never had too much in this slightly smaller scale and for me they seem to name it something different in each catalog.
When Menards ramps up with more locomotives it will be interesting to see the demand.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

highvoltage said:


> This run. Sounds to me like they will asses user feedback and make additional run(s) in the future.


I would suspect that it may be a little while until the next Menard’s locomotive relaese….I’m guessing that they will monitor the feedback from people who bought the first release, and see if there are issues, problems, etc, before releasing another one without addressing said issue/problems, if any….


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Since my whining previous post I read that some are complaining that she be too long. It would appear that instead of an F3 they produced an FP7. So I guess I'll be watching for the rejections to show up for sale!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The only production run numbers I’ve ever seen are for Williams (pre-Bachmann) in _The Story of Williams Electric Trains_ by John Hubbard. And those are estimates in some cases. I’ve also seen production numbers for a few special runs.

I would consider the Menards run of 200 F units as a test run. I think someone said earlier that we are beta testers for this one. I suspect it sold out fast because it’s interesting…the first Menards locomotive. Also because the cost is tiny in todays market.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Dano said:


> Since my whining previous post I read that some are complaining that she be too long. It would appear that instead of an F3 they produced an FP7. So I guess I'll be watching for the rejections to show up for sale!


I've been wondering myself about that, since seeing the announcement a day or two ago. I finally got off my duff and went and grabbed an N-scale InterMountain FP-7A that I have, and compared it to Menard's picture of the loco on their website. Keep in mind that InterMountain isn't into toy trains, but rather scale trains.

Main identifying features on F units would be the side grilles, the portholes, and the fans & exhaust stacks on top of the body. And to a lesser extent the body length and the truck centers. Darned if the Menard's loco doesn't closely represent the InterMountain FP-7A almost to a tee.

I'd have to say the critics of the "F-3" designation are correct. BUT! No reason for rejection by any but the most anal, Menard's loco still should be a pretty danged good buy for the buck regardless.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

How about that…..an FP7 for the price of an F3…..

You’d think if they are coming to the trouble of making a locomotive, they’d know what locomotive they are actually making and marketing…..sigh….


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I wouldn't buy just for the lack of detail.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

JUST CURIOUS, Does anybody know if these units will operate with a Lionel Universal Remote? They bodies look Lionel, the remote looks sort Lionel, and they operate by something like Bluetooth. Just maybe.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Lee Willis said:


> JUST CURIOUS, Does anybody know if these units will operate with a Lionel Universal Remote? They bodies look Lionel, the remote looks sort Lionel, and they operate by something like Bluetooth. Just maybe.


No, it’s not Lionchief and not compatible with the universal remote or lionchief app.
There are already pictures of the remote pcb in the other forum. Mine arrived today and i’ll be posting details and pictures later tonight.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Dano said:


> Another F3. How about an FP9 or some such.


Well, it’s really basically an FP7, so that’s close……


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Menards said:


> View attachment 562793
> 
> That's right, all 200 sold out in less than 3 hours. Wow!
> 
> ...


Any thought you may make a run of them in ho scale?


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

OK, so quick update and review:
On unboxing, I found minor paint rubbing in a line on the top of the engine that matched the clamshell packaging parting line. A simple wrap of tissue paper could prevent this.
*The remote did not work with Energizer brand batteries*- no power light, and now I know why others had the problem and *the solution-* the molding of the battery tray and the stamping of the metal contacts of the battery holder are such that depending on the length of the protrusion of your brand of batteries tip, it may not make contact with the battery terminals. I could see a tiny but visible gap. *This is why others have reported their remote did not power on*. Simply using aluminum foil or any dozen other methods to make the contact solves the problem (well works around the problem).

Other notes both from myself and club members at the train club tonight.
A few people really didn't like the plated trucks and pilot. Far too flashy. I'm personally OK with it, but understand where they are coming from.
The horn sound is pathetic. That really drew a lot comments about how weak the horn sound is, Also, holding the button longer does not play a continuous horn, so it's always the same bleet and that's it.
Everyone here liked the crew talk. In fact, IMO, a step above a lot of Lionel offerings.
The amber number board lights also drew some ire, as well as the fact the headlight is off when sitting stopped in neutral.
The beginning bare minimum speed is too fast and quite a jump from a dead stop. Top speed was fine.
Another noted problem was the instant dead stop and absolutely zero coasting. There are no flywheels on the motors, but more than that, the controller just seems to dead brake the motor the instant you got to neutral or stopped position on the remote.
Last, not a problem but an observation that after about 15 minutes of running at normal speed, the shell was warm above the control board. I then removed the shell and the rectifier on the control board is the main source of this heat. Not hot burning to the touch, but definitely can get warm.
One last note specific when I took the shell off, I found the rear backup light wire had been pinched from the factory by the shell to frame. It did not puncture the wire, but not good for routing or assembly issues.

Overall, I think there is a good opportunity and some lessons learned:
*#1 fix the battery terminal issue*. It's really simple, either change the metal contact stamping or change the plastic thickness so the battery positive nub can reach the terminal better.
#2 fix the horn sound. I mean you did all that work on crew talk, and then this is the single beep horn we get?
#3 Worried about the pinched wire- yes a one off test run and mine is one sample, but again, not good to find.
#4 consider not plating the trucks
#5 Headlight completely off in neutral may bother a lot of people. Headlight is only on in forward right now.
#6 Fix packaging to prevent paint rubbing damage from plastic clamshell packaging (wrap in tissue or something else).


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Jetguy said:


> OK, so quick update and review:
> On unboxing, I found minor paint rubbing in a line on the top of the engine that matched the clamshell packaging parting line. A simple wrap of tissue paper could prevent this.
> *The remote did not work with Energizer brand batteries*- no power light, and now I know why others had the problem and *the solution-* the molding of the battery tray and the stamping of the metal contacts of the battery holder are such that depending on the length of the protrusion of your brand of batteries tip, it may not make contact with the battery terminals. I could see a tiny but visible gap. *This is why others have reported their remote did not power on*. Simply using aluminum foil or any dozen other methods to make the contact solves the problem (well works around the problem).
> 
> ...


Additional notes:
The radio and controller inside the loco are custom for Menards and are not in the slightest way related to any other brand and definitely not Lionchief.
They are not compatible with any other remote system and not the Lionel universal remote.
There is only one chip in both the remote radio transmitter and the receiver in the engine that is an unmarked 16 pin package. There are literally zero markings on the chip.
No, they weren't sanded off as I've seen some companies do, these are literally just completely unmarked chips.
No FCC markings, or anything, this is pretty rogue if I'm honest. The antenna is just etched traces within the PCB (and that's not that uncommon of a thing, just pointing it out).
I wanted to look up a data sheet and get frequency and other info since that has not been posted. Short of a spectrum analyzer, we don't really have that info.
Picture of the remote PCB from a web search.









Other good notes. I was impressed with the size of the wiring used from the trucks for pickup roller and ground and they are joined mid chassis soldered and heatshrinked before the connector that plugs into the control board. Why this matters is that when/if you derail and the current could pass between trucks, this heavy wiring takes that brunt of the short and not multiple input pins and traces on the control board.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

One ? Here. Does this engine have a conventional operating option? 99% of my engines are Postwar & MPC. Era. I have not made the leap to hand remotes yet.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

ERIE610 said:


> One ? Here. Does this engine have a conventional operating option? 99% of my engines are Postwar & MPC. Era. I have not made the leap to hand remotes yet.


Me neither. I just assume it will run in Conventional.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

ERIE610 said:


> One ? Here. Does this engine have a conventional operating option? 99% of my engines are Postwar & MPC. Era. I have not made the leap to hand remotes yet.


No, you must use the included remote.
This is mainly a toy starter engine designed to compete with Lionchief engines.
Keep in mind, go back and look at the Lionel 2021 volume 1 catalog or the V2 released today, go and find an equivalent Lionchief engine and you'll find Lionel's MSRP is $220

Again, this right now is aligned to compete head to head with Lionchief and no, Lionchief isn't targeted at you conventional runners either.

Now yes, you can beg Menards to add conventional via a switch and see what they say, but they had a market they intended (starter engines for kids as toys sold in their stores).


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Ohh that's a deal breaker for me then. Conventional only on my layout.


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Here is more details on the battery contact issue where depending on your battery brand and possible variations in the plastic mold and stamping of the metal contacts, your batteries might not work.
Again, notice the gap at the positive end of the battery to the terminal.









My selected fix was to add a tiny dot of solder to the contacts to raise them. Caution, too much and the battery won't go in and the spring negative contact is fully crushed. 
Also, scrape or file the plated contact to get a good solder joint.
Original non modified contact.








Modified contact with solder blob


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

briangcc said:


> Ohh that's a deal breaker for me then. Conventional only on my layout.


Well, assuming a person would run one loco at a time anyway on a conventional layout line, all you would really have to do to run this engine is crank your conventional handle up to about 12~14 volts or so, then go ahead and run the Menard's engine with their included remote.

Not a big deal at all. I have done that on my layout with a couple of LionChief Plus steamers that I have. On them however, I just have to be sure and set a little slide switch on the locos from "conventional" to "remote", depending which way I control them.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Jetguy said:


> Here is more details on the battery contact issue where depending on your battery brand and possible variations in the plastic mold and stamping of the metal contacts, your batteries might not work.
> Again, notice the gap at the positive end of the battery to the terminal.
> View attachment 562966
> 
> ...


Not a good omen when you have to tinker with it right of the box…..


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Mixed Freight said:


> Well, assuming a person would run one loco at a time anyway on a conventional layout line, all you would really have to do to run this engine is crank your conventional handle up to about 12~14 volts or so, then go ahead and run the Menard's engine with their included remote.
> 
> Not a big deal at all. I have done that on my layout with a couple of LionChief Plus steamers that I have. On them however, I just have to be sure and set a little slide switch on the locos from "conventional" to "remote", depending which way I control them.


Nope. Deal breaker. Nothing to do with batteries, additional throttles, etc. That adds another layer of complexity I DO NOT WANT. I'm in IT. I deal with computers every day. Call me old school, stick in the mud, whathave you. I prefer my locos "dumb" or at least the ability to be "dumb".


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

briangcc said:


> Nope. Deal breaker. Nothing to do with batteries, additional throttles, etc. That adds another layer of complexity I DO NOT WANT. I'm in IT. I deal with computers every day. Call me old school, stick in the mud, whathave you. I prefer my locos "dumb" or at least the ability to be "dumb".


Understood. However, I have to disagree with you on one thing....................
I consider older, conventional locos "smart". NOT dumb.


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## trainman32780 (Jul 31, 2019)

Menards said:


> View attachment 562793
> 
> That's right, all 200 sold out in less than 3 hours. Wow!
> 
> ...


Mark , Looks like you guys took an old ATLAS from the 70's O scale and stretched it to an FP7 or up scaled an old Atlas HO FP7 , If it scales to size of the old Atlas F-9 , 2 rail guys could super detail this with better horns , offer clear number boards and even undecorated , and believe it or not if you did bring out 200 in 2 rail O scale , undecorated , you might be surprised what could be done . The old Atlas F-9 can be really detailed and your body profile of the nose is very good . . I saw a video review of the jumpy start on a command control environment of constant 18 volts which is most likely the cause for a jumpy start . It would seem that there are no flywheels on the motors , another way to have smoother starts for no increase in cost ,finer gears for which would be a swap out at the manufacturing level , say now is a 20 tooth large gear in the side of the truck , make them 30 teeth . Also drop the plating , that would save money . Plating was on the sides of Santa Fe bodies . Not sure of the cost but if the entire body was plated prior to painting , then mask off the side grills when painting for different roads , the big guys use etched metal grills , a super plus for Santa fe models just leave the side body panels plated , all other roads will be painted except their side grills , and as far as a 2 rail version many guys would love a diesel with your remote and then still have conventional DC track power . 
Here is a picture of an old Atlas F-9 fitted on a Lionel Chassis , the body is very close to yours but is not the passenger version that seems to be yours . My point is ,I took a plain body ATSF old Atlas an turned it into the FEC unit , detailed it with better horns and added hand rails and grab irons . I also added headlite bezels , very simple just an aluminum cone , I made about 20 on a lathe in about an hour , but enhanced the headlights superbly . A small upgrade and not offered by LIONEL ,or ATLAS ,or MTH not much to make in a mass production setup . Just a few of these modest changes and you would sell tons , because of the remote features and not having to have command control to utilize them which is a big plus. Feel free to reach out , I think you could have a real winner with just a few minor tweaks , and from what I know about manufacturing , I do believe the enhancements would not increase the costs due to omitting some things (truck plating) , better gearing , better lights or LED's , the headlight bezels due have a thin styrene lens cover , the LED (headlight) is a standard run of the mill "warm white" 3mm . the bezel was drilled to accept the LED with a very slight press fit and a slight press fit into the engine shell light housing . I also painted the side grills bright aluminum then weathered them.
You have a great base model that is at a great price point and would be a super detail candidate for more serious modelers , after all that was what O scale once was , a modelers "scale" . You capture a lot customers in 3rail , 3 rail scale and even 2 rail .
Bernie


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Got mine today and just ran it for a few minutes. Here are my initial impressions.

Kind of nice for an entry level locomotive. The directional headlights are nice.

The paint looks good. It’s a shame that the paint was marred by the packaging.

I was a bit surprised that there were no instructions whatsoever. Maybe because this is a beta test engine. Have not figured out the switch on the bottom. In one position, the engine works, in the other position, it doesn’t.

I also had a problem with the remote. Had to stick some foil between the contacts and positive terminals to get it to work.

Not crazy about the jackrabbit starts and stops. The top speed seemed kind of slow (at 16 volts). Maybe a good thing (to limit derailments around curves) if it’s aimed at kids.

I hate the shiny trucks, pilot and couplers, but if it’s aimed at kids, it might be a hit with them.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

Here are two video reviews posted on YouTube:

Matt, _aka_ West Chicago Model Railroad.





Jason, _aka_ That Conservative Train Guy.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

Those video reviews tell the story. Watch Jason's for the quick overview (it's much shorter). As usual, Matt gives the "gory detail" review.

I could live without conventional mode. I'm about 98% postwar Lionel, but do have two LC and two CC engines. They are nice for a change once in a while, and the remotes can be fun to use. But as others have mentioned, the Menards "beta" engine has too many flaws for me to purchase. Maybe if they fix all the running issues AND offer them in some paint schemes I prefer such as Milwaukee Road gray/orange/maroon, Soo Line maroon/yellow, CNW, etc. (upper midwest lines) I might bite, but the quality control issues have been the killer for me on all of Menards offerings so far. I really want to like the Menards trains since we have two stores in the area, but there were just too many QC issues in the ones I had in the past such that I've not bought any cars for a couple of years, and sold the ones I had.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

briangcc said:


> Nope. Deal breaker. Nothing to do with batteries, additional throttles, etc. That adds another layer of complexity I DO NOT WANT. I'm in IT. I deal with computers every day. Call me old school, stick in the mud, whathave you. I prefer my locos "dumb" or at least the ability to be "dumb".


Yes I am too. I respect those guys, most of the guys on here honestly and on OGR, that are what I call the alphabet or slogan guys. TMCC, etc who throw around the jargon. That’s fine. Being in hobby only 8 years with no completed layout to speak of, I am just thrilled, or would be, to get trains running, horn, bells, crew talk in some cases, passing awesome dioramas and recreated era towns and landscapes. 
Crazy that Menards would not offer a conventional mode. Or instructions on how to run conventional. This to me is not a good sign. For $175, it appears a fair amount of that is for this control system. And just so I understand, EACH sold locomotive will come with this handheld thing? Wouldn’t 1 or 2 be enough? What if I go nuts anc buy 10 Menards locomotives. Does that mean I have 10 identical controllers and are they specific to each locomotive? Certainly not. 
I must be missing something.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

KBeyer said:


> Those video reviews tell the story. Watch Jason's for the quick overview (it's much shorter). As usual, Matt gives the "gory detail" review.
> 
> I could live without conventional mode. I'm about 98% postwar Lionel, but do have two LC and two CC engines. They are nice for a change once in a while, and the remotes can be fun to use. But as others have mentioned, the Menards "beta" engine has too many flaws for me to purchase. Maybe if they fix all the running issues AND offer them in some paint schemes I prefer such as Milwaukee Road gray/orange/maroon, Soo Line maroon/yellow, CNW, etc. (upper midwest lines) I might bite, but the quality control issues have been the killer for me on all of Menards offerings so far. I really want to like the Menards trains since we have two stores in the area, but there were just too many QC issues in the ones I had in the past such that I've not bought any cars for a couple of years, and sold the ones I had.


Agree. I got rid of all of my Menards box cars due to non 1:48 size and light weight. I generally love their buildings and have 4 or 5 of those. I would prefer a $250 locomotive with close to 1:48 size and less detail but correct colors. Like MTH Railking. Like you Milwaukee Road is one of my running lines. As you know Milwaukee Roads diesels from the 60’s through the 80’s, except for perhaps the Uboats, are simple orange and black with a Milwaukee Road slogan. Those should be easy to make.
For Rock Island Lionel will not make a never before seen diesel - MTH dabbled in some recently - so all Menards needs to do is make a maroon GP30 or so with a Rock Island font on the side and maybe chevrons and they would sell 500 of them because they are new to the hobby. I would buy 3 at $250 each.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

They got it backwards….the shiny stainless steel should be on the body, and the silver paint should be on the trucks and pilot….


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Ran it today for a while on my main layout and have a few things to add.

It runs fine on my DCS layout. Not that I thought it wouldn’t, but it’s nice to confirm.

Top speed seemed slow at 16 VAC on my test loop, but I ran it alongside an MTH loco on the main layout to check top speed and it was around 80 SMPH at 18 VAC.

I figured out the switch on the bottom. It just turns the prime mover sound on and off.

This loco must have a supercap. The sound continues for a few seconds after you turn off power.

Jack rabbit starts and stops are even more noticeable when you have a train behind it. But it does pull well.

Did I mention before that I hate the plated trucks, pilot, frame and couplers? In case I didn’t, I absolutely hate the chrome plated trucks, pilot, frame and couplers. I thought about painting them, but paint probably would not stick to the chrome without some laborious prep.


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## Taylor622 (Jan 31, 2013)

Received today 7/19. Young engineer very happy. Fired up with old ZW with TVS and breaker protection. After some aluminum foil in the remote battery holder, she ran great. Yes it had two paint rubs on the centerline of the roof. Mike you have a winner.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Pretty sure the plating is nickel judging by the color. It will take paint as well as steel. You can get metal etching primer if you are concerned but most model paints will stick to bare metal. I never used primer on my brass engines and a few of those were done well over 50 years ago.
Personally I like the look. It screams toy train. I enjoy toy trains every bit as much as scale models. They both have their place in my collection.
Pete


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Ok...don't see it listed anywhere so I'll be the bozo to call it out....where's the roof vents? The ones that are supposed to be just behind the cab? Blatantly missing.

Should be (2) slits with chicken wire if I recall correctly. Bueler? Bueler??



https://www.railpictures.net/showimage.php?id=363951&key=2551295


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

briangcc said:


> Ok...don't see it listed anywhere so I'll be the bozo to call it out....where's the roof vents? The ones that are supposed to be just behind the cab? Blatantly missing.
> 
> Should be (2) slits with chicken wire if I recall correctly. Bueler? Bueler??
> 
> ...


It is not a scale model. you can not expect to get everything on a non scale model.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Its been pointed out by some more knowledgable than me that this engine is actually an FP7 rather than a F3. Photos show FP7s didn’t have those vents. Those wanting a traditional F3 should just get a Williams.

Pete


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

bigdodgetrain said:


> It is not a scale model. you can not expect to get everything on a non scale model.


Huh? Let’s back up a second here. This isn’t me saying the underframe bell is missing from the fuel tank (it is). This isn’t asking for individual grab irons or air hoses (they’re missing too). This isn’t asking for individual wiper blades over the windows or a working gyrolight in the nose (those are omitted as well).

This IS something that even Varney got right back in the 1950’s on their cast metal bodies. This IS something Lionel got right on their F-units dating back into the 1950’s or so. This IS something MTH got right on their Railking (non-scale mind you) F3’s.

So why, in this day and age, are we giving a free pass to something blatantly wrong and easily corrected? Menards IS a modern company, spent what appears, some design hours laying this design out. So why, oh why was it omitted?


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Norton said:


> Its been pointed out by some more knowledgable than me that this engine is actually an FP7 rather than a F3. Photos show FP7s didn’t have those vents. Those wanting a traditional F3 should just get a Williams.
> 
> Pete


The FP7 had an exhaust fan there insteadof the grates.










So if you want to call the Menards unit an FP7, then they still missed a blatantly obvious roof detail that other manufacturers in other (smaller ) scales HAVE included.


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I still want one!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

briangcc said:


> So why, in this day and age, are we giving a free pass to something blatantly wrong and easily corrected? Menards IS a modern company, spent what appears, some design hours laying this design out. So why, oh why was it omitted?


I don’t think anyone is giving Menards a “free pass”. Menards sells toy trains. If I want a detailed scale model of a diesel loco, I’ll get an MTH premier for around $400 or a Lionel for whatever crazy price they are asking these days. If I want to buy a whole train and have a few bucks left in my pocket, I’ll look at Menards.

As for missing/omitted roof vents/bells, I suspect that the “F3” was made from existing tooling.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

pjdog1 said:


> I still want one!


Fix the control issues - it needs conventional mode as well, fix the missing roof details, and offer it in either NYC cigar band, B&O Capital, or Pennsy- either brunswick green or tuscan red. Hell, I'd even be willing to pay $200 for it.

But you cannot sit there and tell me that something model manufacturers got right 70 years ago is now suddenly incapable of being reproduced in this day and age. Tyco, Bachmann, Lionel (both HO & O), Varney, Cary, Athearn, Atlas, etc all figured this out YEARS ago and now its suddenly acceptable to omit a glaring detail? And these guys did it before the age of computers and cnc milling machines. Because its a toy??? 

I'd love for someone to put this next to a MTH Railking F3 and do a side by side comparison. I bet the dimensions are close at which point the roof detail omission becomes even more glaring.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Lehigh74 said:


> I don’t think anyone is giving Menards a “free pass”. Menards sells toy trains. If I want a detailed scale model of a diesel loco, I’ll get an MTH premier for around $400 or a Lionel for whatever crazy price they are asking these days. If I want to buy a whole train and have a few bucks left in my pocket, I’ll look at Menards.
> 
> As for missing/omitted roof vents/bells, I suspect that the “F3” was made from existing tooling.


Lionel sells toy trains. Williams sells toy trains. The list goes on across all scales.

By not calling out the glaring omission that's exactly what everyone is doing...giving Menards a pass. It is unspeakable that something we could accomplish 70 years ago is suddenly too difficult or expensive to do now. Have we really sunk that far that we are willing to accept that?


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

briangcc said:


> By not calling out the glaring omission that's exactly what everyone is doing...giving Menards a pass. It is unspeakable that something we could accomplish 70 years ago is suddenly too difficult or expensive to do now. Have we really sunk that far that we are willing to accept that?


This is a beta. The 200 units are for test and evaluation. The OP said:

"Please email your thoughts and feedback to Ray at *[email protected]* "


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

Make it look like this.




  








image.jpg




__
pjdog1


__
Jul 21, 2021




NTH RailKing F3’s


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I’ve not figured how to post a picture. I even tried to put a picture in my gallery but not luck


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

pjdog1 said:


> Make it look like this and I’ll buy it....





pjdog1 said:


> 9705Misc.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You want it to look like a building?


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

beachhead2 said:


> This is a beta. The 200 units are for test and evaluation. The OP said:
> 
> "Please email your thoughts and feedback to Ray at *[email protected]* "


And yet no one has said a peep here other than to say...

"it's a test"

"It's a beta"

"It's a toy"

All the wonderful excuses as to why its acceptable to skip over this detail but not ONE single solitary person to step up and say...you know what, that is a mistake that should be addressed. 

I'm done here. Obviously this glaring omission is acceptable to everyone else, it isn't to me. See ya.

Feel free to delete my account admins as I'm not returning.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

As a FYI some FP7s did have a flat panel in that location with no fan. If the locomotive was ordered without dynamic brakes the panel was flat. So the Menards model is correct for a FP7 with no dynamic brakes. Here's a reading FP7 with a flat panel in that are as it lacks dynamic brakes: 

Reading FP7 #902


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

briangcc said:


> But you cannot sit there and tell me that something model manufacturers got right 70 years ago is now suddenly incapable of being reproduced in this day and age.


Seventy years ago there wasn't much thought to making an accurate scale model for most toy trains. Best example I can think of is the Lionel 44 tonner made extra long so it would fit on an existing frame.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

If you put the Menards “F3” next to an actual F3 model, you would instantly see the difference….the Menard version would be longer, not even close to what an F3 should be, becuase its really a model of an FP7….


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

briangcc said:


> And yet no one has said a peep here other than to say...


Yeah, maybe they’re sending Menard’s emails with their feedback as requested by the OP.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

briangcc said:


> And yet no one has said a peep here other than to say...
> 
> "it's a test"
> 
> ...


Don’t let the door hit you in the butt as you leave….🤣


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

I saw a YT video last night where the guy did a great review and solved the jack rabbit startup problem by lowering the voltage. He has two videos posted. The first link below is for the first video where he discusses the jackrabbit startup problem. Link #2 is his follow-up. He does a nice informative review IMHO.

(11) Menards F3 Locomotive, Beta Unit First Impressions - YouTube 

(11) Menards F3 Locomotive, Beta Unit First Impressions, Part 2 - YouTube


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Did any “real” F3’s have steam generators in them?


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

briangcc said:


> And yet no one has said a peep here other than to say...
> 
> "it's a test"
> 
> ...



did you get one to evaluate?


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

What I was trying to say earlier but could not get a picture loaded up is this. If Menards will make an F-3 or F-7 that looks like this I will buy it. Only thing I’ll ask is ‘AA’ or ‘ABA’.




  








image.jpg




__
pjdog1


__
Jul 21, 2021




NTH RailKing F3’s


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

briangcc said:


> And yet no one has said a peep here other than to say...
> 
> "it's a test"
> 
> ...


Sorry you are so sensitive to counter point. We don’t have to agree with each other. I read your comments with interest. I am an MTH fan and there is another member on here who is a Lionel loyalist and we simply agree to disagree. 
So, I would say comparing anything from the 50s to now is not an apples to apples comparison. Show me those trains and although they might have some of these items overall I’ll bet they don’t compare. 
I limit my eBay searches to 1997 or so. I have a couple of single motor Lionels that lack detail. I am not sure that’s what you are talking about.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

By the way I am so dumb I have no idea what an FP7 is. I know my usual suspects GP 7/9/35 and F as a class but never heard of an FP. I think it must have a car body. I have catalogs, books, even Rock Island roster books from 1970s but never heard of an FP7.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

F for F unit….P for passenger…..their bodies were longer to accommodate a water tank and steam generator to heat the passenger cars….which is what this Menards locomotive really is….not an F3…..

EMD FP7

EMD also made an FP9….


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

ERIE610 said:


> I saw a YT video last night where the guy did a great review and solved the jack rabbit startup problem by lowering the voltage. He has two videos posted. The first link below is for the first video where he discusses the jackrabbit startup problem. Link #2 is his follow-up. He does a nice informative review IMHO.
> 
> (11) Menards F3 Locomotive, Beta Unit First Impressions - YouTube
> 
> (11) Menards F3 Locomotive, Beta Unit First Impressions, Part 2 - YouTube


Funny he never mentions that the Menards locomotive is not an F3, but really an FP7…..


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> F for F unit….P for passenger…..their bodies were longer to accommodate a water tank and steam generator to heat the passenger cars….which is what this Menards locomotive really is….not an F3…..
> 
> EMD FP7
> 
> EMD also made an FP9….


Thanks that helps.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

At this ppint I think Menards has probalby received so much feedback it is going to have trouble figuring out what to do. I suggest it just move ahead with its current plan. Don't make any changes. 200 sold out in hours. 2000 would probably sell in days.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

My suggested for Menards is change the description to FP7, that could actually be plus as few before have done one, put white leds behind the number boards, address the jack rabbit starts. The latter is something the end user would have the hardest time fixing without having to resort to these band aid solutions. Those seem to be the biggest gripes.

Pete


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Lee Willis said:


> At this ppint I think Menards has probalby received so much feedback it is going to have trouble figuring out what to do. I suggest it just move ahead with its current plan. Don't make any changes. 200 sold out in hours. 2000 would probably sell in days.


Well Lee, most of the feedback is pretty repetitive in my opinion. Virtually everyone is recommending the exact same improvements. Don't know how they would have trouble figuring that out.

Besides that, if they choose to not make any changes, I wouldn't be the least bit interested in one, no matter how cheap they set the retail price. For that matter, I'm glad I didn't get in on the initial 200 Beta test units, especially if I had to buy it just to test it! I'll gladly wait for the new, much improved version.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

To avoid the Jack Rabbit starts just turn the voltage down a tad. Worked for a guy on You Tube.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

They are smart…..had people pay them $150, times 200, to test their locomotive…..thirty grand, for things they should have figured out before they even introduced it….

The locomotive type isn’t even right….did they even research it? And the stainless steel shiny trucks and pilot….

Pretty slipshod….


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I hope Menard's gets into the o gauge engine world. Just so there would be something to keep Lionel honest? Lionel is going nuts in there prices. I'm a Lionel guy but whet the heck. 

Menard's makes some great stuff. I think they will get it right in the end. If they offer another one I'm going to get one.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It would be nice if Menards had a line of locos. I too have some concerns about their quality from time to time, but I still buy their stuff and have berhaps 100 rolling stock from the company, and many buildings . . . 

sure wish K-Line had not imploded years ago, though . . .


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

Everything I’ve bought from Menard’s I think is pretty good. And the price is much better than Lionel. I wanted flat cars with Sherman early tanks on them. Lionel want $ 130.00 a piece? To much. MTH made one for allot less. I could not find any from Menards. Lionels Tank looked cheap to me. So I bought a bunch of Tamiya 1/48 tanks and assembled them. Bought a bunch of used Lionel flat cars which I painted. It made a pretty nice army train. Cost less than $ 40.00 each and I had the fun of putting them together. I think Menards made some but I was not able to find any. I’m going to get a water tower from Menards. Lionels is way out of line with there price on the water tower! Just my two cents worth!


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## superwarp1 (Dec 13, 2016)

And the hobby they say is shrinking. but the overly great response to Menard's entre into O gauge has been very positive. Now they are making locomotives. I hope someday they get to the point, they are making scale, highly detail models like Weaver used too.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

Norton said:


> My suggested for Menards is change the description to FP7, that could actually be plus as few before have done one, put white leds behind the number boards, address the jack rabbit starts. The latter is something the end user would have the hardest time fixing without having to resort to these band aid solutions. Those seem to be the biggest gripes.


I think that is spot on. I would only add: they should wrap the engine in tissue before it goes in the clamshell. Most of these had paint damage from rubbing against the clamshell packaging in transit.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

beachhead2 said:


> I think that is spot on. I would only add: they should wrap the engine in tissue before it goes in the clamshell. Most of these had paint damage from rubbing against the clamshell packaging in transit.


I suspect one of the things about the small test run was to identify stuff like this. One would hope they'll learn from the feedback from this run, that was the stated purpose of the small quantity.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

I'm waiting till someone buys this and installs TMCC in it, defeating the whole purpose of the locomotive .


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Isn't the purpose of the locomotive to run around the layout?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Did someone mention sudden starts and stops? Just noticed that a sudden stop made my cargo shift.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Isn't the purpose of the locomotive to run around the layout?


It is. But on the cheap. Someone is going to spend a couple hundred upgrading one and defeat the whole cheap aspect.

I'm just waiting to see who does it first 😁.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I should have gotten in on the initial run so I could tinker with it. I wouldn't convert it to TMCC, but I might have addressed the jackrabbit starts. I suspect maybe something like an inrush-limiter might give it a more refined start.


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

Would flywheel motors help the jackrabbit?


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## Marklx200 (Jun 14, 2015)

briangcc said:


> Lionel sells toy trains. Williams sells toy trains. The list goes on across all scales.
> 
> By not calling out the glaring omission that's exactly what everyone is doing...giving Menards a pass. It is unspeakable that something we could accomplish 70 years ago is suddenly too difficult or expensive to do now. Have we really sunk that far that we are willing to accept that?


Your right. Lionel and Williams do sell toy trains. But they don't sell them for a hundred 150 bucks do they? These are entry level locos at a reasonable price which is rare. People complain about young people not getting into the hobby and in the same breath demand more and more realism from the manufacturers and they get it. Along with high prices that keep young people away.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

I don't get the "Jack Rabbit" starts. In post #83, Eerie610 linked two videos of the Loco in action. In the first, you can see (eventually) the owner throttling up on the remote. The lone Loco moves smoothly in relation with the throttle's increase. In the second video, the Loco is pulling some six passenger cars (I didn't count). But the video clips only show the Loco in motion.

Does the Loco Jackrabbit with a large consist? Or does it jack rabbit when power is applied with a remote already set on high throttle? It won't perform like a Lionel costing 10 times as much? No momentum, no crawl at 5 scale mph ...

Inquiring minds would like to know ...


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

It jack rabbits on starts using the remote when it's by itself or if it's pulling a train. The dead stops are a bigger problem though as you can see in my post above.


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## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

And OGR closes their forum thread on this engine for no reason. Dumb.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Lehigh74 said:


> It jack rabbits on starts using the remote when it's by itself or if it's pulling a train. The dead stops are a bigger problem though as you can see in my post above.


Forgive me, but the only video I see in the thread shows a reasonable start in relation to throttle commands.. I did see your pic portraying a dead stop - load shift. But I have to ask, is that because the throttle was rapidly shut down?

I get it, there's no mechanical momentum in the design. So the onus is on the operator to manage the throttle. No?


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Matt Kramer said:


> And OGR closes their forum thread on this engine for no reason. Dumb.


They likely closed it because it represents a challenge to Lionel. When one considers that Menards is a major player in the home improvement retail business and is likely funded far better than Lionel, as exemplified by their ability to sell O27 inexpensively, then it should worry Lionel and will be fun to watch over the next 10 years. 

Frankly a little surprised Menards did not buy more of MTH. Both MTH and Menards have ownership that is passionate about O and HO scale model trains. Lionel does not. I'm not saying Lionel does not have employees that are not train nerds, but ownership is only looking at profit margin.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Marklx200 said:


> Your right. Lionel and Williams do sell toy trains. But they don't sell them for a hundred 150 bucks do they? These are entry level locos at a reasonable price which is rare. People complain about young people not getting into the hobby and in the same breath demand more and more realism from the manufacturers and they get it. Along with high prices that keep young people away.


I'll take a counterpoint at your comment regarding enticement of young people or new people. I demand more and more realism but I started with O27/O31 and frankly believe if I had to do it all over again I would go that route. Or stay on that route. 

In the beginning 8 years ago I did not know what I know now. So I purchased a lot of O27 / O31 thinking that was the "standard". And I then started to get into expensive locomotives and rolling stock and thought I could "blend" them. In some cases I can, as I have a blending of Rail King, some older Lionel and Atlas, I have Williams locomotives, etc. 

But I can not run Menards rolling stock, it's just not even close to scale, at least the box cars. 

I think if I went to a club event - not that I am in any club - and there was a 16 year old there running O27 I would love it just as much as the more detailed stuff. It's a big sandbox.


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## neilblumberg (Apr 15, 2019)

If you check out Charles Ro's prices on LionChief diesels, they are not too far north of the $150 Menards is charging for a similar loco. About $170-200. Same basic capabilities and approach. It remains to be seen if Menards price remains that low for full scale production. Williams locos (non-command, but with conventional capabilities, unlike Menards and LionChief) can also be bought in that price range too. The notion that budget priced locos and rolling stock aren't available, except from Menards, is simply not true. Delighted Menards is moving into becoming a full line supplier(except for power supplies and switches), but budget conscious, O27 oriented (toy) or both buyers do have choices.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bryan Moran said:


> But I can not run Menards rolling stock, it's just not even close to scale, at least the box cars.


I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. I actually find them very close to scale. Here's a comparison of the Menard's 40' boxcar with my Lionel Vision Line PFE 40' Reefers. Now, I suspect few will say that the VL PFE Reefers aren't scale, and they sure look very similar in size to the Menard's cars...

You can argue the minute differences in dimensions make the Menard's cars "non-scale", but that's king-sized rivet counting IMO. And saying they're "not even close to scale" is clearly an incorrect statement, they are quite close to scale!


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I like it!


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

But are they meant to be 40’. I still have one Union Pacific Menards car. I had purchased a set of 4 Burlington Route box cars. They looked small next to my other box cars.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bryan Moran said:


> But are they meant to be 40’. I still have one Union Pacific Menards car. I had purchased a set of 4 Burlington Route box cars. They looked small next to my other box cars.


According to their lettering, they're meant to be standard 40 foot boxcars.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Bryan Moran said:


> But are they meant to be 40’. I still have one Union Pacific Menards car. I had purchased a set of 4 Burlington Route box cars. They looked small next to my other box cars.


What are "my other box cars"? And, are they longer, higher, wider ....


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Well then I will have to take my statement back.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Boxcars came in a variety of sizes, with the overall trend being they got bigger and bigger over the years. 

The Menards boxcars I have a pretty much close scale: they are models of 40' boxcars. Many of my other reefers and boxcars are scale but models of larger boxcars than those forty footers, and thus longer and taller. But I have a few - very few boxcars that are smaller, two recent Mail Pouch boxcars I bought are traditional size - smaller than scale, but too cute not to keep.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Yes I have a few of the 40 foot box cars but not many. I much prefer the larger box cars. However I understand now that Menards box cars are full 1:48. I don't believe Menards has 50 or 60 foot 1:48 yet but I won't buy Menards box cars. The other rolling stock sometimes looks intriguing.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The style and size of the boxcars you buy would logically reflect the period you're modeling.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Millstonemike said:


> What are "my other box cars"? And, are they longer, higher, wider ....


1st, I am fairly new to the hobby and trains, even as a Railfan. I spent 45 years in the old car hobby, and know a lot more about old cars in general and specifically a few brands. I had owned about 245 cars in my years in the hobby. 

7 years ago I transitioned to model trains and being a Railfan. Usually both go hand in hand. 

I have settled on collecting Granger states lines (not all, but 3) from I would say the 1950's to 1980's, early 80's. I have some modern stuff too. In the course of collecting rolling stock I do have some 40 foot. Mostly MTH Premier wood sided P.F.E. box cars that a train widow sold for $20 each. When I saw them, they looked small to me. But they are heavy well built. 

I have a Lionel P.F.E. on ebay now -










I have admitted I am completely wrong in my assessment of Menards size. 

I think what I associated with Menards is cost to scale. I mentioned in another thread I purchased O27 rolling stock when I first started - Now that was almost all Lionel. Not knowing anything about O Scale model trains I knew Lionel, I think a lot of people do. 

I was buying these 30 to 50 year old Lionel low detail stuff that was clearly O27. I just did not discover that until I started going into brick and mortar stores and going "whoa" look at that! So all that O27 has largely been given away. 

While I would agree with John and others that Menards is scale, have they ever done a 50 foot box car? A 60 foot one? Not having the knowledge about numbering that John has, I was comparing the 40 foot box car from Menards to MTH Rail King, or Premier. Perhaps modern Lionel. Even some of my Rail King looks bigger than Menards, but I guess it is an illusion. 

I won't mention the subject again because I may never be as knowledgeable as some of the senior forum members. I wish Menards the best.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

For those of us who model transition era, late ’30s to early ‘50s, 40 and 50 foot boxcars were most common. Manufacturers tend to model PS1, 1937 AAR, and PRR X29 boxcars with a few others thrown in. This is a good representation of what trains looked like with varying size cars.









Pete

245 cars!!!! I have all I can handle with three plus my garden tractor.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

That is a great photo Norton. Just really specacular to me!!!


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Norton said:


> For those of us who model transition era, late ’30s to early ‘50s, 40 and 50 foot boxcars were most common. Manufacturers tend to model PS1, 1937 AAR, and PRR X29 boxcars with a few others thrown in. This is a good representation of what trains looked like with varying size cars.
> 
> View attachment 563742
> 
> ...


Yes it is a great photo. Lionel put out an external ribbed wood side box car in the past 5 years in Rock Island and I hesitated getting one because I knew it was from the 30's. I finally got one. That must be a 40' on the left side of the electrical pole and a more modern (50' ?) on the right, from the size discrepancy. 

The most I ever had at any one time was 9 cars. Buy, enjoy, restore, sell, about 6-7 cars per year. Got my 1st at age 12, a 1949 Dodge truck.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Those boxcars all look like 40 footers to me….some older ones may even be 36 footers…..the photo looks like it was taken back before 50 footers came about, although the gondola in the foreground looks to be a 50 footer…


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Norton said:


> For those of us who model transition era, late ’30s to early ‘50s, 40 and 50 foot boxcars were most common. Manufacturers tend to model PS1, 1937 AAR, and PRR X29 boxcars with a few others thrown in. This is a good representation of what trains looked like with varying size cars.


I agree, excellent photo, really points out what a typical freight train would consist of in the 40's. What really stands out is the different heights of the boxcars.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Old_Hobo said:


> Those boxcars all look like 40 footers to me….some older ones may even be 36 footers…..the photo looks like it was taken back before 50 footers came about, although the gondola in the foreground looks to be a 50 footer…


Agreed, including the gondola length. I would guess it to be 50' also. Excellent picture. And after studying it a little bit, I can't see any signs of 50' box cars either - they all look to be 40' and shorter, as far as I'm concerned.


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

The tanks in the picture look like Stuart’s. 1945 they could be. They are not Sherman’s.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> Those boxcars all look like 40 footers to me….some older ones may even be 36 footers…..the photo looks like it was taken back before 50 footers came about, although the gondola in the foreground looks to be a 50 footer…


The photo is dated September of 1945, right after the war. 50’ boxcars began being produced in 1942. Likely not that prevalent when the photo was taken.

Pete


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

pjdog1 said:


> The tanks in the picture look like Stuart’s. 1945 they could be. They are not Sherman’s.


They look like they are coming back after being used in the war….they were not still being built by then….


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Could be a M22 Locust...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Sorry John, not even close….same lower hull and drive, maybe….but upon further investigation, nope….


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

Those are Stuarts. Not really a good choice for WWII. They stopped production in June of 1943 on those!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

pjdog1 said:


> Not really a good choice for WWII


What do you mean….haven’t you read “The Haunted Tank”? 😁


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

No! I’ve not read the haunted tank! Is this something real?


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

You got to be kidding me. I have not read a comic book in 70 years!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

pjdog1 said:


> You got to be kidding me. I have not read a comic book in 70 years!


Oh man, you poor guy. I feel for you. 😄


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

pjdog1 said:


> You got to be kidding me. I have not read a comic book in 70 years!


That’s why you never heard of it then…..The Haunted Tank series is only 60 years old…. 😁


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## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

Last comic book I read was Blackhawks. About 70 years ago. But as I aged I moved up in the world of literature!


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## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

``here is a video of someone running two of these engines. not my video.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

Thanks Bigdodgetrain for sharing your YT Video. Video was most informative. Rest assured that the resident electronic gurus will be commenting shortly. Comments should be informative & lively. Stay tuned.


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

The insanity is strong here: 

Menards O Gauge Santa Fe F Unit Diesel- With Sound and Remote Control! | eBay 

Menards O Gauge Santa Fe F3 Diesel Locomotive 3-Rail Lights Sound | eBay 

"I want a cheap new locomotive, but I must have this one because Menards, at double the MSRP." 

Just buy a Lionchief locomotive from trainworld for cheaper and get an arguably better product.
Lionel #2134070 LionChief U36B - Seaboard System (trainworld.com)


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

I know this is an older topic but wanted to show a video of the OLD board and it's firmware function before the new version arrives tomorrow.
The board uses the A4950: Full-Bridge DMOS PWM Motor Driver








A key bit of information from the data sheet








Then this video confirms what the board appears to be doing show testing with a Williams RS-385SH motor and flywheel, where when returning the throttle to neutral, the motor violently brakes for a moment every time.





*Hopefully, in the new released version in December 2021, they changed this firmware function.*


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## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Other details of again, this early version for comparison with the December release.
















Notice the main processor is completely unmarked. 








The audio amplifier is an NY9A001A


https://www.nyquest.com.tw/upload/2020_03_273/NY9A001A_v1%600.pdf










The sound? source chip or microcontroller? is also completely unmarked









Nothing else is too exciting.
There is the switchmode regulator for the logic voltage and a second linear style adjustable voltage regulator used be for the sound circuit?

Again, the main processor is completely unmarked, it serves as the radio receiver and controls all functions.

Hoping we see some differences or at least programming when the December release version arrives sometime tomorrow.


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