# AF Track Layout Problem - Adding Feeder Wires



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

For many years as part of my large AF layout - I have one section with an outside loop of track with an inside loop that is controlled by two switches. I run one train on the outside loop and then throw the switches to run the other train on the inside loop and vice versa. I am using one side of a 30B transformer for these two track sections. I decided that I wanted more power at the far end of of each track section. I ran feeder wires from the two existing 690 track trips to two additional track trips at the far ends. I did follow these instructions from an AF manual. Now the problem - when I try to run one of the trains the other train also starts up - no matter how the switches are thrown. So...I have two trains trying to run at the same time! Not what I want! All wiring connections have been checked numerous times but I can't solve the problem - any ideas on what might be causing the problem?


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Unless I'm mistaken, you probably have the switches set to single train operation which is allowing the power to the inside track at all times depsite the switch track direction. Change the switch tracks to "two-train operation" by sliding the small button-like slide on the switch base. This will cut power to the inside track as long as the switches are set for the outer loop -- your other train should not run. Once the switches are changed to the inner loop, power will then flow to it and power to the reamining section of the outer loop should be cut allowing you to park the first train somewhere out of the way.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I apologize for the spelling errors....you would think after nearly 1200 postings, I would have learned how to type by now.


----------



## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

artrep1 said:


> For many years as part of my large AF layout - I have one section with an outside loop of track with an inside loop that is controlled by two switches. I run one train on the outside loop and then throw the switches to run the other train on the inside loop and vice versa. I am using one side of a 30B transformer for these two track sections. I decided that I wanted more power at the far end of of each track section. I ran feeder wires from the two existing 690 track trips to two additional track trips at the far ends. I did follow these instructions from an AF manual. Now the problem - when I try to run one of the trains the other train also starts up - no matter how the switches are thrown. So...I have two trains trying to run at the same time! Not what I want! All wiring connections have been checked numerous times but I can't solve the problem - any ideas on what might be causing the problem?


I'm no Electrical Engineer but could it be that your current is being transferred to the other
track by way of your engines motor? Very similiar to how a A/F track trip #670 works.
Larry


----------



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for the replies - both switches are set for two train operation so that's not the problem. I even tried standard operation but both trains still run. I can't imagine how one of the engine's motors could be transferring power to the other track. That's a mystery to me.


----------



## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

Artrep1,
I had the same problem a few years ago, and it was because I added a set of feeders to the inside loop. If you want the two-train function of the AF switches to fully control power to the inside loop, you can not add additional feeders to that section. 
And the same would go for the outside loop, no feeders in between the switches.
Try adding feeders to the main loop just on either side of the switches and see if that helps your situation.

I think this will resolve your problem.

Aflyer


----------



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for that suggestion - looks like I'll be crawling around on all fours under the platform again! I'll give it a try!


----------



## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

artrep1 said:


> Thanks for the replies - both switches are set for two train operation so that's not the problem. I even tried standard operation but both trains still run. I can't imagine how one of the engine's motors could be transferring power to the other track. That's a mystery to me.


If you got a A/F operations book; look at track trip #670 and it will tell you how it works.
The current is actually transfered through the engines motor! Yes sounds weird but thats
what's happens. Elecrtricity is somewater like water; it seeks the lowest resistance. Larry
p.s. You may need some fiber pins in your system.


----------



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Again - thanks for your suggestions. It will take awhile to experiment with moving the track trips/feeder wires near the switches but I did discover the following. If I disconnect the feeder wires to the inside track trip the train on the outside loop runs fast at both ends as I had intended. Disconnect the feeder wires to the outside track trip and then re-hook the feeder wires to the track trip on the inside loop and that train runs fast at both ends as I intended. Not the best solution but it is easy and at least I don't have both trains trying to run at the same time!


----------



## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

Artrep1,
I don't know if your track is all nailed down, screwed down or glued down, but here is another suggestion.

If your track isn't fastened down pull up each section and clean the pins, I am using alcohol and a scotch-brite pad just like for cleaning the rails. I also have cleaned the hole in the track, using alcohol and one of those little tooth brush things made for cleaning between teeth. I am going to buy some pipe cleaners because I think they would work even better.

Now one more trick you may have already done, is to bend each pin off center by about an eighth of an inch, this tip actually came from the A/F manuals that come with the trains. All pins are bent in the same direction, and as you push the sections together they are held there more tightly.

Ok, I know this sounds crazy. But I have one set of 20 gauge feeders setup to the transformer so I can test for shorts as I lay the track. I now have about 30 feet of track down and my little 342 runs end to end with very little change in speed. On my staging track between two switches, no extra feeders so I can use the two train function. No slow down inside that loop either. I believe cleaning the pins and the holes is a big help here.

I have feeders soldered to the track every third section, so once it is all hooked up I expect I will have consistent power all around the loops. But in the interim, I was surprised to see how well that one little set of feeders is working.

Good luck,
Aflyer


----------



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

I have enclosed a picture of this portion of my layout. This was completed several years ago and I did clean & check all track - never had any problems. As you can see it would not be practical to tear up all the track. The left switch is located by the coal loader and the right switch is by the billboard whistle. If you follow the outer loop the train runs up a trestle at the far end (that's where I need more power to the track). The inside loop runs around the circus, and there is a crossover by the Branford Diner - track continues thru the tunnel at the far end and around (need more power at the end to the right of the far tunnel). From a couple of the suggestions I'm not real clear where the feeder wires/track clips should be placed. Should they be on the track - both sides - right before where each switch is placed? It seems to me that it is just adding more power to this section of the track and NOT to the far end of the outside loop where I really need it?


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm sorry I am unable to add any more to this issue you are experiencing, but let me say, I am thoroughly enjoying this layout you have created. I'd love to see more photos showing the other end and even one showing the entire layout if at all possible. Looks like you have used many of the American Flyer accessories very nicely.


----------



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi Nuttin But Flyer - I'm glad you enjoyed the layout! I do love the accessories - I probably have almost all of the ones that Gilbert produced. Enclosed are three more pics - the entire layout is difficult to photograph due to the size. It's a busy layout - always lots of action especially when I have five trains running at the same time!


----------



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I never had a American Flyer layout so I can't help you there.

Just wanted to say Nice layout. :smilie_daumenpos:

With Lionel you don't really need clips at all you can just bring the wire up underneath the rails. Can't you do that with American Flyers? Just add all the extra feeds you want?


----------



## artrep1 (Feb 26, 2013)

Well, I followed Aflyer's advice and success! I added two sets of feeder wires/track trips on the outside loop right BEFORE the switches. I wasn't sure this would provide enough power at the far end of the two loops but it does work! I now have more power at the far ends and of course complete control over the two trains. Thanks for all of you that responded to my problem!


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Glad you got the issue resolved. That's why we're here.


----------



## Aflyer (Nov 10, 2010)

artrep1,
As NuttinButFlyer said that's why we are here. The lessons learned are meant to be shared, I am glad that solution helped to resolve your issue.

I like your layout as well, lots of great accessories and plenty of trains running. Looking at your pictures it is very obvious you won't be tearing up track to bend and clean the pins anytime soon LOL.

Aflyer


----------

