# My first try.



## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

My son is Fascinated with model trains when ever he sees them. So for his b day next month I am building him a 5x3 n Scale setup. 

It will be 2 track setup. First is a point to point starting at the base in front right, then travels around the outside of the table at a 4% incline and levels out at a 4" high platform in the back right. I'm controlling it with an AR-2 auto reverse board. 

Second track is a simple over under figure 8 with a short siding under the bridge. This again is at a 4% incline rising 2". 

The scenery will be 2 hills in the corners. Left will be a hill going down inside the figure 8. Then idk what else to put there. The right hill will be kind of the same only with a steep rock face where the train station platform will be. Then the hill will end in the figure 8 with a small cottage and a pond. Hoping to find a small dock and row boat, then I plan to put a small walking trail around the pond with a bench or two. The back wall along the point to point will all be the same rock face as near the train station at the top. The point to point will go into the hill on the left. The figure 8 will go through both hills. 

The point to point is a bachmann trolley. The figure 8 will be a bachmann freight train with caboose. Then I have about 10 random cars. Most likely half of these will stay on the siding due to it being a small track and 4% incline. 

Things I'm not too sure on.
If I should do my plaster cloth over all my track before building the hills up. 
What to do with the left figure 8 or all of the space towards the front of the table. 
Tips on mixing tree types? Different trees around the house compared to the hills?

I have been trying to take photos at each step I do. Started with a 4x2 and quickly realized that was too tight. Then stepped up to the 5x3. 











































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## powersteamguy1790 (Mar 26, 2012)

Have fun with it Wildsime.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Sorry I can't help with your questions, I have no experience with those subjects. But I like your layout. Yeah 4% is very steep, but a small train ought to do fine. I'm sure your son will love it!


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Thanks guys. 

The trolley will be by itself. So no worries there. I'm figuring 5 cars plus the caboose for the freight train in the center. 

I wanted a simple track setup that he can just turn on and control throttle. But wanted it to still be a nice active setup. So with the figure 8 and the AR2 setup. It should give a nice constant movement across the scene. 

Plus if I ever want, I could swap the trolley for a passenger train setup with a few cars. 


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

I always put plaster cloth over my WS risers first, makes it much easier to blend things in.
nice little layout, your son should enjoy it.

Magic


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Thank you for all the kind words. 
Last day I haven't really touched the actual layout other than I glued down all my risers and inclines along with the back drop walls. Still trying to work out the scenery ideas. 

So far only thoughts I have really had is doing a steep Rockface along the entire back wall from the tunnel exit to the train station, along with the same along the incline wall for that same length. Then tying in the rock face on the outside of the tunnel wall on the right. 

My thought is to make the left end of the track very tree heavy much like a forest all around. Coming down the hill into the figure 8. Then building a small hill running along the front left between the tracks which will also be forest area. In the figure 8 I am thinking of making a small clearing of low and medium coverage to setup a camping area with a few tents and kids playing. Then there will be a small dirt trail leading back under the bridge to the walking trail by the pond. I think I more of a tall narrow tree setup for all the forest areas. Then do a deciduous tree setup around the lake and house that are blooming. 

Still trying to figure out the large area from the center of the figure 8 all the way to the front right corner. I don't what to do all trees there as I feel it would take away a lot of his view, but don't just want to have a big clearing either. 

Any thoughts or ideas of focal points that would work with the rest of the scene but doesn't require too much vertical space?

As he is only turning 5, I want him to be able to see everything from a seated or kneeled position so that area I think needs to stay nice and low. 


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

A quick mockup just to get a feel for the look. 



























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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

Wildisme,

I have done several 3x5' layouts over the years and also a 2.5 x 4.5' layout. I also was your son's age once. 

You have addressed two of the three main things that we love about our layouts: 1) Point to point running, and 2) Continuous running. There is a third important thing for many of us though, 3) Switching! :thumbsup:

You have extra room now since you stepped up to 3 x 5 feet, and you have the room to add a lot of interesting play time with switching freight cars from one place to another and building up and breaking down freight train consists. In so doing you also can add interesting scenery in the form of industries.

I'm not sure what track you are using so I did the best I could in the attached image. Why not add a few more turnouts? The left inner side of the figure 8 could be home to a nice industry, the front (easy to reach) area could be used for sidings, and the track could run off into the right side tunnel into what you could pretend was a mine or a branch line through a tunnel to another city. A few additions like this on the lower level can provide many, many hours of entertainment.

I use a free program named SCARM. If you get tired of shifting around sectional track to determine options, you can do it in SCARM. It's easy to learn, and if you are interested I can do the basic layout for you and give you the file. It probably would take me 15 minutes, without the elevations included. SCARM does do 3D models complete with mountains and tunnels, but that's beyond my ability at present.

http://www.scarm.info/index.php

-Never Get Old


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

I did think about this idea. However with him being this young I do not want a bunch of switches or sidings for now. 

I am limited on space as we do not have a house yet. We are looking to buy a house this year. And when we do, a 4x8 layout will be in the works for me. 

I wanted to keep the track minimal so it's more of a turn on and adjust speed and watch it. He would play with the polar express train oval around the tree for at least an hour every night just making it go back and forth and imagining he was picking stuff/people up. 

I'm sure he will get plenty of enjoyment out of this. But I want to do more with the scenery to make this a nice layout. Hence the tunnels and bridge. Allows me to make it a compact layout with very minimal track, but still gives me a lot of focal points to catch his interest. 


I do appreciate the scarm recommendation. I actually used Anyrail to mock up my design using unitrack. Some things changed once I got around to buying parts (turn out, siding, rail end bumpers etc) but the general layout is all the same. 


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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

Wildisme said:


> I wanted to keep the track minimal so it's more of a turn on and adjust speed and watch it. He would play with the polar express train oval around the tree for at least an hour every night just making it go back and forth and imagining he was picking stuff/people up.


Exactly. That's why I suggested switching options. That's a huge part of the play value. He will be old enough to master throwing a turnout soon enough, and until then someone can help once in a while. Gotta learn to throw a turnout some time, right? Kids grow fast. Layout needs to keep up even if you plan to replace it soon.



Wildisme said:


> But I want to do more with the scenery to make this a nice layout. Hence the tunnels and bridge. Allows me to make it a compact layout with very minimal track, but still gives me a lot of focal points to catch his interest.


I guess there are two options for these vacant areas then if you don't want more track: 1) Let Mother Nature do the work, or 2) Let man be involved.

Mother Nature: Valleys, meadows, forests, streams, waterfalls, rivers.

Man: Towns, houses, industries, logging areas, crops, pastures.

You can run a track to an area simply to increase its value as scenery even if you don't plan to actually use the track for operation.

Never Get Old


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

To address your "type of trees" question....

First, you need to decide if you want deciduous trees or conifers (like pine, spruce and fir) or a combination. You could use deciduous trees in the lowlands (and the inhabited areas) as well as the lower parts of any mountains. Then put conifers on the tops of the mountains. That is how they grow in the Appalachian mountains. If you want to model midwestern hills, you would use mostly deciduous trees -- maybe with a few conifers planted yards. If you want to model western mountains, you can use mostly conifers at all elevations. These are just suggestions. It's your railroad, you decide.

For deciduous trees in inhabited areas (towns, farms), they are usually growing singly or widely scattered about. Growing in the open will cause their branches spread out, but they usually have no branches on the bottom 10 ft, because land owners trim them so that they can mow under them. These kinds of trees are best made by adding leaf material to pre-made armatures (or armatures made from natural weeds).

For deciduous trees growing in mountains, away from people and buildings, the trees grow so closely that you can't see their trunks -- except for the ones at the edge of the forest. So you can get away with "balls" of fibrous material set right on the ground, but packed tightly. You would need to add some short trees with trunks near the exposed edges.

There are lots of ways to make trees -- some very cheaply. Do a search of the forum for "trees" in the title, and you will get lots of threads sharing tree-making ideas.


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

I honestly think I will purchase pre made in bulk. 

However I wasn't sure if it would look right with both types as most of the wooded style scene I have seen only have one or the other. 

I am pretty sure I will go with a pine or spruce for most of the layout, and then deciduous around the cottage area. 

Also giving 'NeverGetOld's ideas some thought. I am considering eliminating the higher train station platform and making it a second large hill. Then have the track end in a tunnel. 

If I do this I would set my delay to the full minute to simulate it going to a different town. 

Think that would be neat as it would pass through the forest, through a tunnel, then climb along the back wall on a steep rock face, and back into a tunnel where it would delay. 

I appreciate the info on the trees as well. I've been looking at some bulk sets, seen some with multiple green shades and different heights. So that's my next decision is making them all one style tree or giving it all a nice mix. 

Lol very un decisive with this being my first build. Hopefully my next build for myself will be more decisive... But something tells me this hobby always makes you second guess layouts as the design aspect of it is only limited by your imagination. 


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## Never Get Old (Apr 16, 2016)

Wildisme said:


> Lol very un decisive with this being my first build. Hopefully my next build for myself will be more decisive... But something tells me this hobby always makes you second guess layouts as the design aspect of it is only limited by your imagination.


You are off to a better start than many thanks to your planning. You already have both point-to-point and continuous running in one layout to keep things interesting. For me two trains is better than one in small spaces. On my current tiny 2.5x4.5' layout, being able to run two trains at once was my minimum requirement. Add some sort of switching opportunity to yours and you really can't ask for anything more in a 3 x 5' layout.

After my first few tries at scenery in small spaces, I had to confine my imagination because it kept leading me astray. I read a few articles on scenery, and one of the authors advised actually choosing a specific geographic area to imitate. Since I grew up in the southeast, I picked "somewhere in the foothills of the Appalachians" where I spent time growing up and still visit at least once a year. When I wonder what a rock face "ought to look like" I browse some of my own pictures, and then I have a goal in mind. That means weathered, darkened granite in most places where I visit, and a whole lot of vines (Kudzu). Out West it's a totally different story. I've never even visited there, so I wouldn't know where to begin. Google I guess!  So, are you interested in east coast mountains or west coast mountains? I can't help with anything West coast. Does a particular railroad interest you? I decided to model what I grew up with because, well, I want to be a kid again!!! :smilie_daumenpos:

For Appalachian model railroads: http://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/

Never Get Old


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Well I made my decisions on trees. Ordered a few sets. Picked up 100ea of a taller tree in 2 different green colors. 1 set of assorted flowering deciduous trees. And 1 set of weeping willows to place a few near the pond. 

I did decide that I am going to tunnel the top of the point to point at the end and extend the delay on it. 

Yesterday I plaster clothed the entire back wall and the point to point rail, then half of each of the risers for the figure 8. 

When I got back home late last night I noticed my engine had come in. I hooked up the figure 8 to do a test run of it and the trolley. At first it was extremely finicky. Then it got to a point where it was running fairly decent but still had issues. 

My concern is that even next to the feeders. The train by itself with no cars would not move until I had the throttle around half way up. And with car it has to almost be at full throttle to get continuous movement. Below is a Video to show what I mean. I also discovered that the trolley I just purchased is defective as one of the trucks is stiff and has absolutely no movement to it. So I will be going to exchange that today. 










https://vimeo.com/177914009
https://vimeo.com/177914068


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

It's acting like the engine wheels or the track are dirty...either or both. Possibly you got some skin oils on the track while you were laying it, maybe some dust got it or the wheels. Seems to do it in the same places, such as the bridge...that'd most likely be dirty track. Clean it with a rag dampened with alcohol, but be aware that alcohol is flammable...avoid sparks.

Clean the loco wheels with a paper towel slightly dampened with alcohol. Lay it on the track and place the front truck onto the towel with the rear truck on the track. Hold the engine to keep it from moving and apply some power to it so that the wheels spin. Do the same with the rear truck on the towel and the front on the track. Move the towel a bit if you get lots of dirty spots on the towel.


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Thanks


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Very good advice from Fire21.

If that doesn't work, you possibly have
poor conductivity in your rail joiners. Not
uncommon problem with newly installed
track.

If you have a DC layout remove the
locos and set the speed control high.
On a multimeter set for DC you should
get somewhere around 10 to 15 volts
at the closest connection to the power
pack. If DCC set it to AC and you should
get between 12 and 15 volts.

Then do the same test on each flex track
section. If you get a serious voltage drop
on any section, check the joiners attached to it.

Don


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Will do. At first it wouldn't run at all. So I thought it may have been something with the electric turnout. So I removed that. Still same. So I removed my second feed to see if it would work. So all this was with a single feed. 

I just ran it again for a bit today and it ran smooth. Still seems to struggle a bit with not moving till over 50%. But it did run consistent without a single stop


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

So since the trolley didn't move at all I took it back. 

After trying 5 other ones the store had. I exchanged it for the 1 that worked lol. He said it happens sometimes but he's never seen a whole batch of bad trains come in like that. 

I also had him take a look at my train to make sure it was okay, he said he thinks a lot of my issue is the dirtiness of the engine wheels. Told me grab an eraser and clean them up and it should run decent. 


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

With the AR2 it stops the trolley based on the sensor losing light.

Do you think the tunnel will give enough light for it to see a difference. Or would I need to mount an led above for its ambient light?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You'll just have to try it. While there is a sensitivity
adjustment on the AR 2 you may not have sufficient light.

White LEDs mounted Above each opto sensors should make
it work. You may want to put an opaque shields around
the LEDs to avoid lighting tunnel but that would mean you
would have to have the LEDs accurately over the sensors.

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Tree making*

Wildisme;

You might want to read my post titled "Making conifer trees."here on the forum. It has directions and photos for a method of making this type of trees.

regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Viperjim1 (Mar 19, 2015)

Very nice and don't forget your access holes for those derailed or stalled trains in the mountains.


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Thanks. 

I plan to cut 2 large rectangles out in the back and will reinforce the edges of it with plaster cloth. 

My tunnels will have short tunnels going into the mountain at each entrance and open in the back side the rest of the way so I can reach it. 


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Well thw train ran without issue after cleaning it out. So much crab in the gears that i disnt evwn think about checking. Then cleaned the wheels and it's all good to go. 

Since I removed the track, and finished plaster cloth work on all the track risers and back wall. 

I then used styrofoam to form 2 small elevated areas towards the front of the layout. Then I chose to use styrofoam for the hills in the corner rather than the newspaper. None of it is glued down yet but the hill, tunnel, and and entrances have all been dry fit to get an idea of where I'm at. 

I decided on the lake in this corner with the house. The blasted rock molds will go into the curved section of the tunnel wall as well as the rest of the flat face of the tunnel entrance walls. 


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

I also changed the rock mold for the bottom section of the back rock wall. It will be a natural rock while the top will be blasted rock to show they carved the track path out. 


Any tips on joining the rock castings to make one continues wall and not have it look like molds where the edges meet?

Should I just break the molds up and piece it all together?



































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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

White latex house caulk, the cheapie kind(painters caulk, I think) works. You can texture it with a round ended tool while it's wet. Don't use silicone caulk.
You can disguise some areas later with greenery if necessary


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

time warp said:


> White latex house caulk, the cheapie kind(painters caulk, I think) works. You can texture it with a round ended tool while it's wet. Don't use silicone caulk.
> You can disguise some areas later with greenery if necessary




I did think about breaking them up a bit more and going a grass/weed growing in all the large cracks. But haven't been able to find any photos on Google like that to see what it would look like. 


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## Dusty019 (Mar 13, 2016)

I know woodland scenic's website has a lot of video's on how to do all that rock face, and how to blend edges with scenery and plants, etc... Watch some of their video's.. it may give you ideas on what you can do.


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Dusty019 said:


> I know woodland scenic's website has a lot of video's on how to do all that rock face, and how to blend edges with scenery and plants, etc... Watch some of their video's.. it may give you ideas on what you can do.




Yea I've watched a few at this point. 

I have one hill all plastered in at this point the other one will be finished in a few days. Then I can start mounting the rock faces. 

Did a quick tree test as I ordered 200. And now I just ordered another 200 of them to give me a good dense forest scene. Il have a few clearing in it too. 

Here was my quick tree test on the front hill. 



























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## PMOC (Oct 14, 2014)

Wildisme, where did you get the trees from, they look pretty good? I have trees that I like, but I am always looking for better. The best trees I have I purchased were from China and were 12.99 for 40 n scale trees with free shipping...from China!


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

PMOC said:


> Wildisme, where did you get the trees from, they look pretty good? I have trees that I like, but I am always looking for better. The best trees I have I purchased were from China and were 12.99 for 40 n scale trees with free shipping...from China!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




Lol. 

China. 40 for 10.47 with free shipping. 

They come half dark and half light green. Ordered another 200 that should be in before his bday. 


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## PMOC (Oct 14, 2014)

Ha! That's funny, thanks!


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

So I have a lot of progress. And I must say. 

I have a new found respect for this hobby, and the dedication it takes financially, mentally, and physically to build a layout from scratch. 

So at this point tonight. I have everything wired, still taped up. All my foam work is done. All my plaster work is done. All my rock work is done, minus mounting 2 rock faces on the right wall. paint is done minus a black wash on the 1 wooden tunnel entrance. All my grass is done. My gravel path and walkway is done. My left hill is done. And the front left is done. Still have to add all my trees in the middle of the figure 8, and along the right side. 
I have a total of 260 trees on so far. Have another 140 available, along with 25 flowering deciduous to use around the house and lake and up to 20 willows which I plan to use only 4-5. I am debating on having the forest continue around the path, or leaving a clearing around it and lining it every few inches with the deciduous trees. 

Tomorrow is the last night to work on it before my sons birthday. My plan is to get the 1/2"x4" veneer trim cut and mounted around all the edges. And building the control shelf, then getting the wires connected to the controllers and pulling all tape off for a test run. 

I don't think I will have this finished but at that point the only thing left would be to add more trees and bushes. However I can have it fully operational for him, and finish the trees and bushes later on. Considering this is my first build, and I have come this far in only 6 weeks from concept to finished product. I am both proud of myself, and exhausted. But this is for sure the best gift I think I have ever done. Just the sheer amount of time this took amazes me, and to see some of the builds I see on here and online.... I get why people take years to build them. 

Thank you for any suggestions and for all the help over the past few weeks to get this together for my son. 

I'll post pics next. 


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Looking pretty sharp and you're having fun with it.
You did better with the rock molds than I did.
Came out so bad I didn't even use them.

Magic


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## Wildisme (Aug 5, 2016)

Magic said:


> Looking pretty sharp and you're having fun with it.
> You did better with the rock molds than I did.
> Came out so bad I didn't even use them.
> 
> Magic




I made about 60 small molds. Didn't use a single one lol. Chose to use the wall molds only. 


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