# Let There Be Sound



## Russell (Dec 11, 2009)

Can you hear your locomotives going down the line? Mine are pretty quiet.

Kato barely does DCC. Atlas has no DCC with sound as far as I know. Both have good reputations with their locomotives. The only N-scale locos I see with sound are the Athearns. Do Kato and Atlas have plans and projected dates for competing with Athearns' sound-DCC locomotives?
Surely there must be some competitive pressure for both of them to get moving on this

Any comments? Any knowledge?


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## BrooklynBound718 (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't know if Kato does DCC equipped sound locos in N. I believe their locos are DCC friendly. Therefore, they can easily accept DCC sound equipped decoders. My Kato NS SD 80 MAC and SD 70 are both by Kato, but I had to have the DCC decoders and sound installed after market.


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## Russell (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi Will, What you described above is what I was hinting at when I wrote that Kato barely does DCC.

Maybe to get a broader response to my question, I should start two polls . The first would ask how many have gone over to DCC (I have) or intend to within two years.
The second poll would ask how many DCCers see sound in a locomotive as a major factor in purchasing.
If 60% said yes to the first and 50% said yes to the second, then I could have an educated guess that around 30% of the market wants DCC with sound. If that were the case, as a manufacturer, I don't think I could ignore that market and hope to survive or at least remain a major player.

I wonder what percentage of HO locomotives being sold are DCC-sound, and I wonder how quickly that percentage is increasing. Any retailers out there ready to share what they know?


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## Steve441 (Nov 24, 2010)

I love the idea of sound and hope to get into it eventually. I don't have DCC and was thinking a "Broadway Limited" loco which can use DCMaster for DC Sound.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Broadway-Lim...876039?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a16aa2607

Steve


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## Steve441 (Nov 24, 2010)

Here is a link to the DC Master

http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-55/DC-Master-Control/Detail

Anybody have any comments on how this would work - I sure would like some feedback on this sound idea (if you don't mind Russell). I am a total newbie to DCC and advanced electronics or electrics - Thanks - Steve


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## electric (Oct 30, 2011)

I am all for DCC and sound. I ran it on my HO set and just this month switched over to N scale with DCC. Still looking to try out that first sound loco to hear it.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

BrooklynBound718 said:


> I don't know if Kato does DCC equipped sound locos in N. I believe their locos are DCC friendly. Therefore, they can easily accept DCC sound equipped decoders.


Yea Kato are DCC friendly. I've converted all mine (6) to DDC myself with Digitrax boards. And they will accept the DCC sound board easily.

There's only one small problem.

There is no room in the factory chassis for the speaker, without cutting into the frame with a milling machine. I think their tooling is lagging the market in this respect. I've seen one modded at my LHS and I don't have any inclination to have my Kato frames violated in such a manner.


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## Steve441 (Nov 24, 2010)

Is'nt that a huge problem ?


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Steve441 said:


> Is'nt that a huge problem ?


For what, specifically?


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## Steve441 (Nov 24, 2010)

I thought the speaker had to be onboard - Forgive me - I have'nt the foggiest idea of what I am talking about - I have a simple DC Kato big oval.


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Steve441 said:


> I thought the speaker had to be onboard - Forgive me - I have'nt the foggiest idea of what I am talking about - I have a simple DC Kato big oval.


I meant it isn't a huge problem if you don't care that much about sound, because the DCC boards fit inside Kato really well. If you do want each engine to have sound, it's a problem.

I'm going to mount a DCC sound board in a structure in the middle of my layout and program it's address to match a running engine on my layout so the sound will follow what that engine is doing, because I don't want to cut metal out of my engines. It isn't a perfect solution but I think it will work for my situation.


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## BrooklynBound718 (Dec 23, 2010)

xrunner said:


> I meant it isn't a huge problem if you don't care that much about sound, because the DCC boards fit inside Kato really well. If you do want each engine to have sound, it's a problem.
> 
> I'm going to mount a DCC sound board in a structure in the middle of my layout and program it's address to match a running engine on my layout so the sound will follow what that engine is doing, because I don't want to cut metal out of my engines. It isn't a perfect solution but I think it will work for my situation.


Neither of my Kato engines have sound only DCC decoders. I have a Wisconsin Southern by Athearn with DCC and Sound. The sound is pretty nice.


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## Russell (Dec 11, 2009)

Runner wrote,


> I'm going to mount a DCC sound board in a structure in the middle of my layout and program it's address to match a running engine on my layout so the sound will follow what that engine is doing, because I don't want to cut metal out of my engines.


This sounds interesting. You buy a HO sound decoder/board (is there a difference?), and stuff it in a building. Maybe even an O gauge decoder/board for better sound?

Then where do you wire it? 

How would you match it to a locomotive? Maybe like a consist?

I'm interested but a bit confused on the details.
Can you help Runner? Do you have a specific board/decoder in mind at this point?

Already, thanks for the idea.


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## scandy (Dec 9, 2011)

thanks good post)


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

Russell said:


> Runner wrote,
> 
> This sounds interesting. You buy a HO sound decoder/board (is there a difference?), and stuff it in a building. Maybe even an O gauge decoder/board for better sound?
> 
> ...


Any sound decoder for any scale should be OK. You would set it's address to the same address as the loco you want it to emulate, any one running on the layout at that particular time. If you want it to follow another loco simply change the address of the sound board. Consisting isn't needed because matching speed isn't of any concern. It's simply wired to the tracks so it "thinks" it is a Loco. Heck if you have the $$$ you could even do 2 or 3 of these mirror DCC sound boards. 

If you wanted to go all out you could even run the sound output to an amp and then have speakers at two positions on the layout.

I've asked the LHS about doing this and they said there isn't a problem with the concept. It isn't a perfect solution but It's better than milling holes in 5 nice locos.


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## deboardfam (Oct 8, 2010)

I think I like this idea xrunner. Especially for smaller N scale layouts. It would be hard to determine where the sound is coming from anyway on a small layout. Mount two decoders (one for steam and one for diesel if your doing both). HMMMMMMMM.... What would be the easiest way to change the address on the decoder though as it would be semi permanent.. take all your engines off and then program on the main line? Say if you wanted it to be to a different engine?


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## xrunner (Jul 29, 2011)

deboardfam said:


> HMMMMMMMM.... What would be the easiest way to change the address on the decoder though as it would be semi permanent.. take all your engines off and then program on the main line? Say if you wanted it to be to a different engine?


Already thought of that. If you have a Digitrax system and decoders capable of doing "operations programming" you don't have to use the programming track. You just select an address and program it on the track. I do it all the time. 



> There are two primary modes of programming, they are: Service Mode and Operations Mode. Service mode programming requires a programming track which is isolated electrically. *Operations Mode Programming (OPS) can occur anywhere on the layout because the program instructions are directed to a decoders address.* As you can derive, all `new' (first time you've programmed it) must take place on the programming track. Most DCC systems support all methods of programming, however some DCC decoders do not support all methods because of limited resources (size of chip/features).
> 
> http://www.dccwiki.com/Decoder_Programming


You have to do it as follows, essentially changing the address twice to set a new address. That is if the address is now 100 and you want it to be 115, you have to go to a 4 digit address and then back to a 2 digit address. You would program it to say, 9000, and then select address 9000 and program it to 115. It only takes a few seconds. If you don't want to do it this way you could wire a special switch and mount it to the front of your layout, and wiring the switch to change the board inputs from the programming outputs or the track outputs. That would not be hard.



> OPs Mode Programming
> 
> The most important caution to this is to make sure you have a decoder address selected BEFORE entering Ops Mode programming. If there is no address selected, OR you select address 00 you will be sending a broadcast programming command to every locomotive on a live track!
> 
> ...


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## deboardfam (Oct 8, 2010)

Nice.. I do have a digitrax set. This may be a better alternative than reefer madness with audio lol.


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## Russell (Dec 11, 2009)

Near the beginning of this thread Runner wrote,


> I'm going to mount a DCC sound board in a structure in the middle of my layout and program it's address to match a running engine on my layout so the sound will follow what that engine is doing.


How can the sound decoder (which thinks it’s a locomotive-sounds like a monster movie with a head cut off from its body talking away) match another engine to follow what that engine is doing?

Thanks for your ideas and explanations so far. These are interesting possibilities.


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## deboardfam (Oct 8, 2010)

Russell,

They will be programmed to the same code.. so when the controller sends out "Code 03 speed up" The engine will read "ok.. i need to speed up" and the sound decoder will read "ok I need to sound like I am speeding up"... stupid story.. but.. hope it made sense.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I have one idea of my own that I had planned to do when I was operating diesels but haven't tested it...turned to steamers instead.We all have a poor running loco (weak puller or else),why not removing the motor and mill its frame to make room for a "sound only decoder".Such a loco would have continuity to the track (while a dummy wouldn't) so the decoder should be ok,then sufficient room could be milled for the biggest possible speaker for good sound quality and no need to constantly reprogram its adress.Simply have it consisted with one's preferred loco(s).


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## Russell (Dec 11, 2009)

Well all of this has been interesting. I hope if one of us does one of things that has been proposed, that he will share his experience with us. Thank you all,especially Runner, for the excellent ideas. :thumbsup:

I'm still puzzled that Atlas and Kato haven't got a sound loco out there for the Christmas season.

Cheers, Russell


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