# table height



## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2015)

I just built a 4 x 6 table for my layout I am working on. Well I am tall (6'4") so I built it 49 inches high; is this too tall??


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## JNXT 7707 (May 5, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I just built a 4 x 6 table for my layout I am working on. Well I am tall (6'4") so I built it 49 inches high; is this too tall??


It's a matter of personal preference more than anything else.

I like mine to be as tall as possible, while keeping everything accessible. I prefer "ground level" viewing rather than "aerial views".


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

I went against the norm. I built my benchwork with the main top surface at 26" AFF. I will build up from there into my different levels. Right now I think my highest level will be around 42". Here is the benchwork in initial stage. (actually, it's still there)


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Seems to me 49 inches is going to be ideal for you. I measured myself
sitting upright at a comfortable position to do wiring overhead
and allowed for headroom. That came out to 38 inches for me. But I'm
only 5' 10 1/2". 

You can always have a high stool to sit on for operations.

Don


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

Hey Bob S,

Where'd you get those brackets for the overhead tracks? What is the track sitting on? I'm looking for cheap brackets to do a ceiling layout in my living room. Has to be something the wife can live with, and those might be it.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

milehighxr said:


> Hey Bob S,
> 
> Where'd you get those brackets for the overhead tracks? What is the track sitting on? I'm looking for cheap brackets to do a ceiling layout in my living room. Has to be something the wife can live with, and those might be it.


I got them on eBay. Bought them over time, from several different sellers. They are metal painted a nice neutral gray and come with mounting screws. You can probably still find them. Do a search for Rubbermaid shelf brackets. There are a couple of styles available. I've got eight of nine left over if you end up needing a few. The track is on a foam roadbed and screwed down to the plywood. I got the foam roadbed off eBay too. It's pretty flexible, and I didn't bother cutting it for the curves. I used O54 curves and used thumbtacks on the roadbed as I formed it into the curves. It sort of buckled up in the inside of the curves, so I just put a thumbtack in to push down the buckle.


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks Bob. Now to go find 'em...


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Johnny, not many on the 'Bay. Found 11 pairs at Amazon. Here is the Rubbermaid number
FG4C7203SILVR. $6.49 a pair (good price) plus about $25 for shipping all 11 pairs. Good luck - Bob


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I just built a 4 x 6 table for my layout I am working on. Well I am tall (6'4") so I built it 49 inches high; is this too tall??


I and 6' 0". My inherited layout came with 39" clearance between the joists. That is enough for me, but I would not like it any lower.

Since you are building a free-standing table, you can adjust the length of the legs later if you want it lower after you have done most of the under-table work.

Another thing to think about is working on the trackwork and scenery on the top. If my table was any lower, I would be bending over slightly to work on the top, which would aggravate my back. I find it much more comfortable to be standing straight up.


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## milehighxr (Dec 22, 2012)

BobS said:


> Johnny, not many on the 'Bay. Found 11 pairs at Amazon. Here is the Rubbermaid number
> FG4C7203SILVR. $6.49 a pair (good price) plus about $25 for shipping all 11 pairs. Good luck - Bob


I googled the rubbermaid brackets, and my local HD has some nice looking ones for $4.97 each. They're white so the wife demands I paint them some other color. I'm hoping when I go to start buying them, I find something there that is not white, so I don't have to fiddle with painting them. I'll check Lowes next...


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

Norfolk build it to where you are comfortable working on it and have a good reach across to all points. That is the best height to build any table at. I am 6'3" and mine it at 42" but it is what I wanted as it is comfortable for me. 

David


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I am 6'1" and mine is at 48". I like that height.

My 12 year old son's is at 36" and that's low. It hurts my back to work on it for any length of time.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

I sure would like to have a Mulligan on my table height. It is only 36" at the TOP of the layout, which means it's only 34" from the floor to the bottom of the layout underneath.
I'm 6'2" so when I try to sit underneath to do wiring, etc., it's a royal pain in the back and the neck. 
Four sets of steel work bench legs hold the whole thing up, but I've not been able to mastermind a good way to put something under those eight footprints to elevate the whole shebang. The entire layout is 10'X10', constructed of plywood, foam board, 2X4's, 2X2's, and 1X6's, plus all the stuff on top. 
Needless to say, it's pretty HEAVY. Also needless to say, I've banged my coconut LOTS of times while working underneath. 
Yep, that's the one thing I wish I would have done way different when I started the layout.
Live and learn, right?
Bob


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

raleets said:


> I sure would like to have a Mulligan on my table height. It is only 36" at the TOP of the layout, which means it's only 34" from the floor to the bottom of the layout underneath.
> I'm 6'2" so when I try to sit underneath to do wiring, etc., it's a royal pain in the back and the neck.
> Four sets of steel work bench legs hold the whole thing up, but I've not been able to mastermind a good way to put something under those eight footprints to elevate the whole shebang.
> Bob


8" Cinder Blocks? You would need a small army of friends to lift the table and hold it while others stuffed cinder blocks under the legs. Their rough surface would keep the table legs from sliding off of them. Cinder locks are cheap and you could remove them after your wiring is done if you like the lower level.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Furture modifications needed!*

Setting the train table on cinder blocks is a good idea. My table is about 38" off the floor. 
I have about a 3' reach I and I'm over 6' tall. That height works well for me. For wiring I'll
just remove one set of legs and let the reinforced table rest on the floor exposing the underside of the table for running future bus wires through the bench work. I'll provide some images of this project sometime.There is always continuous improvents on a train layout. Regard's,tr1


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Ya' know, I never thought about 8" cinder blocks. That's a brilliant idea! :appl:
I figure it would take about 16 guys (four on each side) to lift that sucker 9" off the floor, along with another four guys underneath to quickly put the blocks in place.
So. let's see.........20 guys X minimum of two beers each, plus at least 5 large pizzas.
That should do the trick, right?  Then, where the hell do we park all those cars? My driveway will only hold about eight so maybe I'm gonna have to give this some noodle time.
Thanks for a great idea and a great excuse for a train party.
Bob


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

raleets said:


> Ya' know, I never thought about 8" cinder blocks. That's a brilliant idea! :appl:
> I figure it would take about 16 guys (four on each side) to lift that sucker 9" off the floor, along with another four guys underneath to quickly put the blocks in place.
> So. let's see.........20 guys X minimum of two beers each, plus at least 5 large pizzas.
> That should do the trick, right?  Then, where the hell do we park all those cars? My driveway will only hold about eight so maybe I'm gonna have to give this some noodle time.
> ...


I think you overestimated the size crew that you would need -- unless you really do want a big train party. My layout is 4' by 8' built with 3/4" plywood, homosote, and lots of 1x4 and 2x2 legs, bracing and joists. So by the square foot, mine is a little lighter than yours -- no 2x4s, but homosote is heavier than foam. Mine is 32 square feet and yours is 100 square feet -- so a little more than 3 times larger. Two guys can lift my table. So 8 guys (4 times as many) should be able to lift your table -- unless you give them too much beer before the job.

Also, if the crew is not large enough, you could lift and block one side at a time.

Also invite your neighbors -- they don't need to drive and don't have to stay long if they are not interested in trains (or pizza and beer).

Kind of like an old fashioned barn raising.


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## L0stS0ul (Feb 6, 2015)

I wanted my 5 year old son to be able to see everything on the table and to be able to help me work on it. We ended put it on home depot buckets flipped upside down and screwed into the framework. It's incredibly sturdy and works great for what we wanted. The layout is roughly 4x8 and we have 6 buckets under it. As he gets older I'll figure out a way to raise it up.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

MtRR75,
Yeah, you're right, I'm probably overestimating the number of guys needed to lift my layout
9" off the floor. More than likely twelve (3 on each side) could get the job done, with a couple of little "quick" guys underneath placing the cinder blocks.
That means more beer and pizza to go around, right?  :dunno:
I'm for sure gonna give it some VERY serious thought 'cause I'm tired of breaking my back and smacking my noggin. 
Bob


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

raleets said:


> MtRR75,
> I'm for sure gonna give it some VERY serious thought.
> Bob


Which? The cinder blocks? or the beer and pizza party?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Table height and aging*



[email protected] said:


> I just built a 4 x 6 table for my layout I am working on. Well I am tall (6'4") so I built it 49 inches high; is this too tall??


[email protected];

Another consideration about a comfortable table height is that it may change as you age.
I'm 6'-6" and 67 Yrs. old. My two-level layout was built with the top portion at 6' (my eye level)
Now, with age related health issues, that limit my standing time drastically, I would prefer it lower. One thing that has helped tremendously, is the sectional construction. I can remove one 4' long section of the layout and work on it sitting at my work bench. Wiring under even a high table height is a figurative pain in the neck(and lower!),when one is young. It becomes a literal, and severe pain over your whole spine when you have Arthritis, and other ailments that come in your "golden years!" By contrast, wiring sitting at the bench, with the section turned upside down,( instead of me turned into a pretzel) is a snap! 
Just one more thing to consider. No mater what height you decide on, I recommend sectional construction very highly. The photo below shows one of my "bookshelf railroad", sections removed for construction. 

Traction Fan


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm 6‘6‘‘ tall my layout is 38 inches tall, if I had to a creeper is nice to work on wires and I can reach the underside of the table. If I want to watch it at eye level, I sit down 
To raise your layout, get a bottle Jack or car Jack. Lift up one side a few inches, put cribbing under it. Raise the middle, then the last side. Repeat until you get to the height you want. Then replace the cribbing with something permanent. Shouldn't take more then 3 guys, probably 2


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## Prewar Pappy (Jul 26, 2015)

*Always Think About The Future*

There were those in the past who thought that my prewar layouts were too low at 38". When I became wheelchair bound I appreciated the height. My wheelchair rolled up to my tables perfectly, just like a desk.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

MtRR75 said:


> Which? The cinder blocks? or the beer and pizza party?


Both!!!:stroke:


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

It looks like I am with a lot of others. My layout averages about 48 inches high. You're layout is closer to eye level and now that I'm getting a bit older, it's still no hard to get underneath if you have to work on something.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Raising your layout*



raleets said:


> MtRR75,
> Yeah, you're right, I'm probably overestimating the number of guys needed to lift my layout
> 9" off the floor. More than likely twelve (3 on each side) could get the job done, with a couple of little "quick" guys underneath placing the cinder blocks.
> That means more beer and pizza to go around, right?  :dunno:
> ...


raleets;

Lifting your layout involves not only weight, but stiffness. I don't know if you built it with 
L girders, or any other stiff frame. If lifted only from the sides, do you think it will sag enough in the middle, to damage itself?
If so,you might try a trick used by house moving companies. They put strong, rigid,
steel beams across the underside of the house, then use jacks to raise each side a small amount at a time. 
Half a dozen guys can lift an entire house this way. You could adopt a scaled-down version of this technique. 
The beams could be wood, instead of steel. Three pieces of 1"x4" lumber glued and screwed together into an "H"-beam shape
should be strong enough to lift even a heavy layout. If you think it might sag, use a 1"x8" for the vertical
("web") board and 1X4" for the horizontal top and bottom pieces. I used the 1x4 version to support a large lumber rack,
spanning my garage. It has successfully supported several hundred pounds of wood for well over twenty years, without any problems.
The jacks could be "Farmer jacks" sold by harborfreight.com. These look very much like the tall, ratcheting steel post and base type.
that used to be in the trunk of most American cars made in the 1960s or before. You operated them using a tire iron as the handle.
Actually any type of strong(automotive) jack would work, as long as long as it was set on top of enough "cribbing"(four square wide stack
of cinder blocks with boards across the tops?) to let it push the beams up enough to raise the layout. 
You might also check with your local tool/U-haul rental place to see about renting suitable jacks. After all you're likely to only need them once.
They might also be able to rent you a manual fork lift device like a pallet jack, or a "stacker." 
I used one of these stackers when I worked for Diebold. They make super heavy bank hardware like vault doors, bullet resistant drive up windows,
and safe deposit boxes. All were lifted with a stacker. I don't know if these are available for rent, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

Hope that gets you thinking. Don't forget to include safety and reliability, in whatever you design! 
Wives love to tell "dumb husband" stories at hospital emergency rooms! 

Good Luck;

Traction Fan


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## model-a (Jan 20, 2014)

I like the flooring awesome.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Traction Fan,
Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions. 
My 10X10 layout table is so solid you could hold an elephant dance on it. Therefore, it's very doubtful there would be any sag in the center if lifted by the edges. 
When I built it I used 10' 2X4's two feet apart. The entire surface is covered with 5/8" plywood with 1" foam board on top of that.
I'm pretty confident the whole shebang could be lifted off the floor without any sag in the center which would cause considerable damage for sure.
All this being said, I'm still noodling over whether I even want to mess with it at all.
Bob


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Solid layout table*



raleets said:


> Traction Fan,
> Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions.
> My 10X10 layout table is so solid you could hold an elephant dance on it. Therefore, it's very doubtful there would be any sag in the center if lifted by the edges.
> When I built it I used 10' 2X4's two feet apart. The entire surface is covered with 5/8" plywood with 1" foam board on top of that.
> ...


raleets;
That sure sounds solid to me! Also @#$%^&* HEAVY! 
If you do decide to raise it, you could probably jack up one side a bit, put a 2x4 flat under each leg on that side,
then do the same on the opposite side. Working in small "bites" of vertical lift should be easy and safe.
You could keep going, in small bites, until you reached your desired new height.
Have you considered making a set of longer legs, before the big lift? Once the layout is raised the new legs could be 
attached next to, or in place of, the old ones.
I don't know how the cinder blocks were to be placed; but if there were any possibility of the layout being bumped sideways, 
the present leg(s) might go off the block(s) and cause damage. New legs seem much safer to me; but, of course, 
that's for you to decide. 

Regards;
Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Colorful*



BobS said:


> I went against the norm. I built my benchwork with the main top surface at 26" AFF. I will build up from there into my different levels. Right now I think my highest level will be around 42". Here is the benchwork in initial stage. (actually, it's still there)
> 
> View attachment 80521


 Bob S.

That has to be the most colorful train room ever! 

Traction Fan


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## /6 matt (Jul 7, 2015)

raleets said:


> MtRR75,
> Yeah, you're right, I'm probably overestimating the number of guys needed to lift my layout
> 9" off the floor. More than likely twelve (3 on each side) could get the job done, with a couple of little "quick" guys underneath placing the cinder blocks.
> That means more beer and pizza to go around, right?  :dunno:
> ...


I think you are still over estimating. When my parents moved last year, my dad, brother in-law, best friend, girlfriend and I all wrangled the hot tub across the back porch and through a narrow carport door, through said carport and then onto a dump truck. Don't even get me started on the unloading efforts.

Surely your train table don't weigh more than an empty 500 gallon hot tub?


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

/6 matt said:


> I think you are still over estimating. When my parents moved last year, my dad, brother in-law, best friend, girlfriend and I all wrangled the hot tub across the back porch and through a narrow carport door, through said carport and then onto a dump truck. Don't even get me started on the unloading efforts.
> 
> Surely your train table don't weigh more than an empty 500 gallon hot tub?


I think he wants a big party....


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