# My O gauge Tinplate/Prewar thread



## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok so as I mentioned in my Standard Gauge thread I was at a place called the Old and Weary Car Shop located in Tappan NY getting the wheels on my uncles Standard Gauge Locomotive. While I was there I was obligated to browse the store. It was pretty much breaking a train collector law if I didn't. Being that I am involved pretty heavily in law enforcement I needed to be on the side of the righteous! A set in the case got my eye right away. 

Here it is:














































It was $150 I checked online to see if it was a decent deal and from what I could find out it was a good deal so I picked it up after the Store owner Al tested the loco for me to show me it worked. The only real thing I could see missing was the front light socket. After a little search here I found a site that sells parts for old locomotives I contacted Jeff Kane and got replacement parts on the way. 

Still waiting for those I searched Evil bay and came up with another loco in the same shape but in rough shape for $50. That arrived today.


























Now the 2679 car needs a door because the original one isn't there, the caboose has a little rust on one side, and the loco is in need of some serious attention but the light is inside and works which is a plus and although I am going to have to figure out why the e unit starts and stops and throws sparks on the rails a lot I think I did pretty good.


All of this is in addition to my dad's postwar set being grudgingly bequeathed to me and his brothers O gauge prewar tin plates also on their way. They are in great shape and I can't wait to post pictures of the tin plates here. 

So how am I doing? Anyone have any suggestions for me.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Good price paid*

The prices you paid were within the correct range, but are not really true sets, but components put together to make a set. The first group of photos show a LATE issue (1939-1941) 1688 loco, with a 1588T tender (1936 issue with a clockwork 1588 loco), and the other cars were #809 Green Ore Dump car; #804 Shell Tank car; & #807 Caboose. The 800 series cars were NEVER issued with a 1688 locomotive, but were issued with a 262, 259E locomotive. Still a good purchase for the price you paid, but not a true set.

The Set from eBay was also a good price. That 1688 loco is from 1937-1939 issue, and the motor is totally different from the other 1688. The 2679 Box Car is a total Mismatch with the other cars, and should be a 1679. The mismatch is the coupler on the 2679 is a BOX COUPLER, versus the LATCH COUPLERS on the other two cars. 

You did good with the purchase prices paid, so don't be disappointed with what I just pointed out. If you want to understand anything about the 1688/1688E locomotives, just look at my thread in the "Tinplate section" 'A case study of Lionel 027 Torpedoes', where I explain all the variations of these locos, and the others that share the same body casting. Any questions or comments will be gladly answered.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I started to read that thread. It's bookmarked and I have to say extremely informative.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

They look to be in good shape, no zinc rot. Try evaporrust on the rust spot. It should only remove the rust. Some car wax or something similar will shine them up and protect them a bit. The marker lights from Jeff will fit perfectly, they did on mine! Just watch , that torpedo has more power then you think. The old stuff is addicting so be careful.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

What model tender came with the first 1688?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

sjm9911 said:


> They look to be in good shape, no zinc rot. Try evaporrust on the rust spot. It should only remove the rust. Some car wax or something similar will shine them up and protect them a bit. The marker lights from Jeff will fit perfectly, they did on mine! Just watch , that torpedo has more power then you think. The old stuff is addicting so be careful.


The older prewar and postwar stuff is my favorite. I grew up with my dads trains and I am honored to be relocating them to my house. I always check out the stuff at the shows but never really bought anything due to my limited skills with a soldering iron. I am getting better though. Where do you get evaporust? Walmart? Auto parts store?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Evaporrust rust is sold at home depot, and harbour freight. Soldering , I agree, so I bought a butane iron. Costs more to run but heats up fast so I can solder stuff without melting other stuff. I can walk you through it if needed, just start a post. I couldn't solder anything at first and melted a few things too boot. But after some practice and the right tools I can rebuild any thing I find now. We'll, with everones help here!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The quick answer for the tender is either a 1689T without whistle, or the 1689W with the whistle. You really don't have to change what you have, as long as you are happy with what you got. It just isn't a Tried and True Set in the sense of being a legitimate SET.
Fortunately I have a huge investment in Books on Prewar, because without them, it is hard to tell what really belongs with what. The Prewar era is an eye opening experience, to understand all the differences. The 2679 Box Car should be replaced with the 1679 only because of the coupler mismatch. It's easier to find another 1679 than it is to try and mess with the couplers. When looking for Prewar cars of either freight or passenger, you have to take a close look at the couplers and the early numbers in the 1600 range are Latch couplers where the later 2600 series are Box Couplers. You wind up learning as you go along, just like I did, when I got into the Prewar side, and restoring junkers. AS far as the 1688's and the sisters of 1588 & 1668, I spent close to a year researching everything I posted in my thread. I can take a good guess I know more about the "Torpedo Locos" than Bruce Greenberg. Of the three numbered locos, I actually own 13 separate Body Variations, that are all different from each other in one respect or the other. People think they are pretty common, when in fact they are not, because of 4 different motors used from start to end of production, and all the Body Mold variations.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Your thread is awesome. 

Just to point out the 1679 is in the picture too. I plan to go to a few shows in the coming weeks so I hope I can pick up a few cars and books as well. Are there any books that are lionel centric?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The 1588 tender is four wheels, the 1689/2689 are eight wheel tenders, with journals. There is another 'Thread' in the "0" section under "Looking for information" that is a group of PDF files I created explaining Loco/tender combinations, Wheels & Axles, and a few other files. It is located toward the end of the thread, if you want to look.

The books on Prewar stuff are very very expensive in today's market, because they are all "Out Of Print". I have spent countless hours, searching for the books that I wanted, and could find at what I was willing to pay. I did find some huge deals, but it all took time to accumulate what I have in my arsenal.. The books are a wealth of knowledge, and indispensable. When you look at what some people are asking for certain books, you will have a 'Stroke' at what they are asking. It all comes down to How Deep do I want to understand Prewar made by Lionel. Fortunately I only strictly kept it to Lionel, and did't get into other manufacturers such as Ives, American Flyer, Hafner, Bing...etc. If I were to use the average prices listed for the books I have, it would amount to roughly $700-$900 worth of books. I didn't spend that much, but that would be an approximate value from the average asking prices.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Wow with that being said aside from what you have posted here are there sites that have more information? I would also love to know what cars came with the 1688 loco sets as well.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The 1688/1688E came in either Passenger or Freight only if in a Set. The freight consist of 1679, 1680, & 1682. The passenger sets were the 1690(x two), & a 1691 observation car. You can add other cars, but they wouldn't have been issued as a SET. Just make sure to keep within the right time period of series numbers, (1600's with Latch couplers) or the 2600's with Box couplers. They can't be mixed in the same consist. 

Other sites in what regard??? Prewar in general? Sets?, Repairing?. It's late, so I can give you a list of books I use, ($$$$$) being one factor. I can look at some sites I have used to research and give you some of those later. I am presently on an iPad, and not on my PC, where I have a few 'bookmarked' site.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I was just looking for sites with references and pictures of the prewar lionel stuff.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Research Material*

To give you a quick answer to possible websites, for Prewar, there are NONE, that I am aware of. A little over a year ago, one individual started a website called "Prewarlionel.com", but we have come to the conclusion that he has passed away, and the website is no longer accessible to any new users. He started the site for just what you were looking for.

People who joined at the beginning, could add information on all the various Prewar items, with descriptions, variations if there were any that were known, and any photo that was in "Public Domain". If a photo was copyrighted, or suspect of copyright, it couldn't be used or added, due to 'infringement legalities'. It was starting to build up steam and then "POOF", it came to a screeching halt. I have tried contacting the registered owner of the website, to no avail, to find out what happened to the person who started it, and registered it. I got no reply.
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I am going to presume that you want to deal with Lionel Prewar only, and not other manufacturers
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The only thing that comes to mind for getting photos, or descriptions of Prewar Era, would be two books. The first one that shows a lot of photos, would be David Doyle's book 'The Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1901-1942', and another that might help is "The TCA Standard of the World" book. It just needs to be searched in different ways, to find affordable copies. As mentioned, almost all books on Prewar, and a lot of Postwar is "OUT OF PRINT", so prices will vary from cheap to expensive. If you chose to go that route, and get books, I can give you a few tips of how and where to search.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

There is Google image and ebay.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*A Website worth checking*

You can check this website to look at the multitude of manufacturers of Model Trains. 

http://www.tcawestern.org/manufacturers.htm

The list is not 100% complete, but it covers all the Major ones. There are roughly 8 that deal with the Prewar era, that were the bigger companies.

The European group have 3, all from Germany
Bing; Bub; & Marklin

The U.S.A. group would include:
Carlisle & Finch
Lionel
Ives
American Flyer
Hafner

If you do a Google Search using each name individually, you can find postings in Wikipedia, that gives you a timeline of each company, as to when they started, when they went out of business, and what happened with some being absorbed by other companies.

Ives started a little before Lionel, within a year of each other. Ives went bankrupt, and Lionel along with American Flyer, bought them out in 1928. By 1930, Lionel took sole ownership of what was left of Ives. If you check the Wiki links for each name, and read them completely, you see what happened in the Prewar era. I personally have read them ALL, and understand the bulk of that era. It is interesting reading.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

T-Man, Good point, but to get an idea of the plethora of variations, only the books will list them, with the details. A good example is the 1682 Caboose. Did you know there are 7 variations because of color or use of journals or no journals. Also take my fixation with the Torpedoes, with 18 different 1688/1688E's, 2 different 1588's, & 6 different 1668's.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

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Any of these safe to use on the rust?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I haven't usd any type of rust remover, to give you a good answer. The one that may work is the "Permatex", but I would be cautious with any. Another possible solution would Automotive Rubbing Compound.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

This is what they had at the local hardware store. The evaporust suggested above is water based.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Correct cars for the one set*

I had to go back and look at the one photo, and didn't connect that you show the 1679, 2679, and the rusty 1682. Because of the mismatch of the couplers on the 2679 with the missing door, I really wouldn't worry about it. The couplers for what you do have should all be Latch Couplers. The 1682 caboose (in my opinion) is not worth the effort to try and remove the rust, and hoping to get a decent finish. I would just find a good replacement. Here is a link to one being offered on eBay (3 days left) that would give you a really good looking 1682 caboose, plus another 1679 box car.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-PRE-...311715?hash=item2cb3b171e3:g:jOsAAOSwmLlX2GzZ

The one car that should be used,to make it a Set, is the 1680 Tank car. But be aware that the correct one should be Silver (Sunoco), and not the Orange one. There are actually 10 variations of the Silver 1680, and the key factor is the coupler having to be a Latch Coupler. Here is decent looking one also on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prewar-Lion...504945?hash=item1c723a4231:g:TlIAAOSw8gVX-7Ge


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks I was just searching those on ebay and I ended up bidding on the ones you suggested after reading this post as well. Thank you. 

Every piece of information everyone has supplied me with has been so valuable. Thank you. Keep it coming. I am always willing to learn. Right now though I am getting ready to burn all my fastrack and switch to O tubular LOL.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Now these here belonged to my Uncle. For the family tree my fathers's brother.











































































Price tag from the gate:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Very nice additions to your Prewar collection. They don't need much work, other than getting the doors situated correctly. If any are missing, I have seen replacement available. It's always nice getting things added to your personal roster, that didn't cost any money. Best part is that they weren't just trashed, without your knowledge.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Yes, the doors need to be straightened out and also I am going to need a light bracket and light for the 248 loco.

My grandmother was very serious about taking care of your things. She taught that to my dad, aunt and uncle. For a 90 year old train that was used on a daily basis for quite a few years I think it looks good and it's been in the family for that long and it will be in the family for generations to come.


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## e021911 (Sep 20, 2016)

If you go to York this weekend Jeff Kain will be there with parts.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Can't get there this weekend unfortunately. He is sending stuff me for the top set though. Train show season is starting in the NY area so I will be on the lookout for stuff I need. The Westchester toy and train show has a few people that may have these things.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cool Marx gateman! Mint also good pick ups , they probably knew you would take care of them!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

My dad knows.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You got a good dad! I got my set from my family too. Not elaborate, but it's sentimental for me.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Advice on how to fix the doors?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Never had a pre war passenger set.....t man or doc might know. Do you have the doors?


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## ErnestHouse (Sep 6, 2015)

I have the same train only a red engine. A friend of a friend has one as well only it had a movable bell instead of a whistle.

Here's the headlight:
http://store.justtrains.com/Lionel-SH-2-Die-Cast-Headlight-Head_p_1568.html

THere's a number of parts there if you search on "248".


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Sjm, this is the first one for me too. 

Ernest thanks for the link!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Doc, I won the auction for the tank car.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Also got the book from the pm. 

I was looking at the problem with the doors. Looks like my father, aunt and uncle might have let passengers on. Some of my gunsmithing tools may help a little getting them close to the right position but not perfectly in place.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Glad you took advice with the book. The price was right, and is the best source for photos to see what to look for. The other two books mentioned are harder to find and more expensive, so just shop around for best prices, and don't pounce on the first one you find.

If I am not mistaken, the doors on the 529's, & 530 might have tabs on the top and bottom of the door. I only have the loco #248, without passenger cars. Most of the trim pieces and the body/frame use a "Tab & Slot" assembly. Take a very Slow approach and unbend the tabs to disassemble the parts. Just go nice & slow, as not to break any. When you have to reassemble, DO NOT, try to Flatten them back to original. Put the tabs thru the slots, and use needlenose pliers and do a slight twist, so it won't slip back out of the slot. It usually saves the tabs from breaking. Any door that is bent can usually be straightened out with a little work. 

Good luck


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I will listen to as much advice as I can afford


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Seriously, I appreciate all of the information here in this thread, and this forum. Since I joined I can say that I have had only one bad experience. I may not be very technical and can't solder to save my life but I keep trying as best as I can. With everyones help things become easier.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Did the 248 have reverse?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Nope, it is wired as Forward only, very mush like similar locos of that era. I'm not sure if a manual reversing unit could be adapted to give fwd/rev with NO neutral.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok so it is operating perfectly then. Put it on the track and it ran right away.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Yup, A new set of brushes and clean armature and mine did he same. Only thing I upgraded was the two fiber gears, with new brass ones.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey, Doc I was wondering if any of those books online


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*529 & 530 Passenger Cars*

I just checked the Greenberg book to see I could date your Passenger Cars, and Body is TerraCotta, Maroon Frame, Nickel Journals which makes these cars made in 1930. Another factor would be the screws in the roof,which should be slotted for a screwdriver. The 1926/1927 issues were knurled screws without slots.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Chiefmcfuz said:


> Hey, Doc I was wondering if any of those books online


Sure at Amazon.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Chief, I couldn't find any digital copies that could be downloaded of either book, but I did find a Super Cheap price of the TCA book. Of course, one addition to the book is a separate "Color Chart" of the typical standard colors used on the majority of locos produced. I would run through the list of books that can be purchased, that says they have the color charts included. Here is the link that I found to the TCA book.

https://web-2.valorebooks.com/textb...dard-of-the-world-1stth-edition/9780917896019


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Tank car is here. Arrived this afternoon.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Tank car on the right arrived this week. 











OK the one 1682 on the left I picked up today. Red roof. The one in the middle is the one I posted before. Which roof was standard?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Multiple versions*

The left 1682 is a Type III, made in 1936, with medium red body and roof. The right one with the brown roof is a Type II, made in 1935 for the one year only. Both versions show nickle journals, which also dates them to 1935 & 1936. The majority of the 1682 cabooses were red roof and red body. 

Another 1936 issue had a cream colored stripe along the sides of the windows of the cupola, and the only issue with that characteristic. This version is not very common, compared to the others.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

That is awesome. Might pick up the other type to make the set. Next question is about the couplers. What years were latch and what years were box? What year did they switch to the knuckle coupler that eventually became post waf?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Prewar/Postwar Couplers*

Lionel produced four different couplers throughout their years of production. The first series of couplers were a simple "Hook" coupler, that had a slot on one truck assembly, and the mating half had an "Inverted L" bend to fit into the slot. These were made and used from 1915-1927 and appeared on Std. Ga. and 0 gauge.

The next was the "Latch" coupler made in 1923 and continued up through 1942, of which there were three types. The three types were simple improvements of springs or how a certain tab was bent in relation to the coupler.

The last Prewar coupler was the "Box" coupler, introduced in 1936, and continued up to 1941. It also had three types, of which the first Type I was manually operated. The other two had minor improvements to make them more realistic appearing.

The "Knuckle" coupler didn't appear until after WW II, and were made late 1945/early 1946. The coupler operation was changed numerous times with how they uncoupled with either "Coils", or Magnetic uncouplers.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

More from my uncles collection. Dad has been finding stuff for me.





























On the crane car I have to reattach the hook. I also need a handrail for the right side of the tank car. Have been out of service all night with a bad headache. Chronic migraines suck. Hopefully the train show this weekend will be successful.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Forgot to post these last night.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Fixed it temporarily. 
]


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Wow, very nice, not saying it....I'm .jealous.... there I said it I can't believe how new everything looks.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Surprised myself with a little dusting off did actually.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

Love the crane car, looks in great shape.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Thank you. I will be looking for a replacement string at the show on Sunday.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Got these at an estate sale today. Paid a little too much but I felt bad for the woman who lost her family member.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Nice additions to your growing collection. A good cleaning and some rust removal, should get them looking a lot better. Be sure to check the wiring before trying to run them, due to the age.
What did you consider as too much $?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

They need a good cleaning that I can tell and I am going to have to get some replacement parts. Doors on the loco's front and rear are missing as is the light. Should have no issues at the show tomorrow getting them or getting something. The Plastic inserts for the coach windows might prove to be a more difficult to accomplish I think but I might be wrong. Paid 120 for it.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

What is the best cleaner for these? I know a little wax would help from what you all have told me but I would like to know specifics. My idea of wax or cleaner might be different than what I should actually use. You guys are the pro's in my opinion. I listen to you.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Train show today was a huge success. The only bad thing was the lack of parts vendors. That being said who is game to work on a 254 for me?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Don't you trust yourself to work on the 254? What exactly needs to be done in your opinion? Can you provide multiple pictures of just the 254 and specifically from the bottom, to try and tell what series of motor it has in it. The production years cover about 7 years for that color, and could have a Type 5, 6 or 7 motor, plus is there a manual reverse unit, with a lever. What is the condition of the wheels as far as are they solid, or indicating zinc rot, that they would need replacing.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I really am not that technical when it comes to rewire jobs. The wheels are great. It needs a clean and rewire.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Definitely need some photos to judge.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Here are some pictures of the unit after I took it out of the shell to clean it. Wires are dry rotted and showing copper / metal.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

This 254e needs new wheels. 





































Stuff from the show today.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Chief, I think you have fallen over the edge with the new acquisitions, along with the other additional pieces you have added. CAUTION: It's a slippery slope.....LOL

To back up to the 254 locomotive, it confirms that you have the Type 5 motor (1927-28 issue), which is pretty straight forward with needing new wiring, probable new brushes, thorough cleaning, and re-lube/oiling to get it up and running, motor wise. Parts needed would be Brass handrail, with 4 brass stanchions, and one cast headlight.

The latest additional locos are pretty much the same, with the specific type motor used, which helps date the issue. The wheels for the 254E are available at about $40 a set, and I think all of them have disc wheels, and not spoked. The only thing to really check on the 3 newest locos, is the wiring, to see if the insulation is shot. In which case, the same problem of a rewire, with newer wiring. All of them should have the manual reverser.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I got some very good deals. The electrics are what my problem will be. Mechanical is no problem because of my rc background. But one goes hand in hand with the other on this.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice stuff. Yes we can help you fix these. As you seem handy, it's just a matter of getting the soldering down right. If I can do it you can too.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I can't solder to save my life lol.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'll post a how to in the am. I'll try and find some links too. It helps to practice a bit first on wires. You'll get it in no time at all.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

sjm9911 said:


> I'll post a how to in the am. I'll try and find some links too. It helps to practice a bit first on wires. You'll get it in no time at all.


I have tried many times. No luck.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Lol, I couldn't solder 2 wires together at all. Took me forever. I eaither melted something or had a bad cold joint. I read a bit on my lack of technique, then bought a butane soldering iron. After that, I could solder anything. It costs a few dollers more to purchase and run. But I could finally solder stuff, so for me it was worth it.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Chief, Do a search (from upper right) & type in How to solder. It was a thread started by Newtown Joe. Read through the whole thread. I'm on an iPad, so can't add what I need to right now. I will add to this later on.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=24931 , now I'm up past my bedtime


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Thanks... now go to bed....LOL


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Thank you. I will check it out!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, thread is good.
I use Flux, a dab on both things to be soldered and the iron.
I then tin the wires. Let the iron heat up. I apply solder to both wires before attempting to solder them together, this is tinning.
After I solder a joint I clean the soldering iron tip with a wet sponge. I then solder the two wires together. 
Remember, don't put the iron to the wires until it's hot. If you apply it too soon you might melt something you don't want to. I wait until late the Flux gets hot, then touch iron with solder to see if it flows smooth, not exactly correct but keeps me from melting stuff. Try to use the side of the iron tip, and not the tip itself. And if you can't get it by a butane iron.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

http://www.eastwood.com/9-in-1-cord...RkZlvZ5WQhQRGanIe_stnQ-kFhjx-FmlKUBoCGfPw_wcB I got this one, cheap and mostly plastic, but if not dropped works ok. Mine is 3 years old. They do use a lot of fuel, especially when learning to solder.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Soldering aids*

Chiefmcfuz, Here are some useful tools to consider for hobby type soldering.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok, I have a butane soldering iron and an electric one as well. Is there a specific gauge wire I should be using. Where is the disassembly instructions?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The wire size should be solid (not stranded wire) 22 gauge, preferably cloth covered wire. The cloth covered wire/solid core, is available from different sources in varying lengths up to 100' rolls. A 10-15 foot length is more than enough, and probably most cost effective.

You ask about disassembly, so we are talking about the 254 motor??? From the photo the one wire that is really important is the "Yellow wire" coming off the Field Coil. What you want to do is leave a short tail close to the coill, and solder on about a 5-6" new wire. Make sure the old wire & new piece are clean, and put a dab of flux on both pieces. Heat each wire enough to get the solder to stick to (tinning) both wires. If both wires are clean, & tinned, they should solder together. If I am not mistaken, all the other connections, (manual reverse switch, brush connections) are screw type connections. Worst case scenario is the brush connections are soldered connections, versus screwed connections.

Trace each wire from manual reverse unit, and the brush connections, and replace each wire, one by one. It may help to make a quick drawing of what goes where. Typically the wire lengths should be about 6" minimum, to have enough slack to reassemble into the body. It really as intimidating as it may seem, and you have the satisfaction, knowing you did it yourself. GO FOR IT!!!!!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Yes disassembly of the 254


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

What disassembly do you think it needs, other than a rewire of the old brittle wiring. The other thing I can think of would be a NEW set of brushes. Two screws holding the brush plate would get access to brushes!!! Still confused??

I'll try and find the right number for what brushes this motor takes. Part #1-92 brushes.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I don't own one so I can't say how it comes apart. I don't think it had a bunch of tabs? But not sure. T-man has one , I think.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Your question about Disassembly instructions is vague. Are you referring to disassembly of the motor, or the body and its parts? Need some clarification of what you are asking. The motor looks to be in good shape, as the wheels don't indicate needing replacement. The only thing that looks like it needs attention would be putting NEW brushes, and possibly cleaning the face of the armature, to make good contact. The dust/dirt on the motor can be cleaned off with a small chip brush (cheap paint brush), and possibly a few squirts of contact cleaner. The set of brushes you would need are Part 1-92. There are two screws holding the brush plate cover onto the motor, and you just have to take the plate off, do the internal cleaning, insert new brushes, and replace the brush plate cover.

The thing needing the most attention, is to replace the old defective wiring, which should be pretty straightforward. Just take one wire at a time, trace where it attaches from one end to the other. (Make a simple diagram to follow), and replace each wire, one at a time. Make the wires roughly 6" long, so that there is enough slack in the wiring, to put everything back together and reinstall the motor back into the body.

If you are referring to disassembly of the body, the trim parts of railings, number plates, etc., are usually held in by tabs, and just take caution when unbending the tabs, and proceed slowly. The body, itself, should be soldered joints, to hold the roof and other parts in place, and doesn't need any attention, to take it apart.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I figure that I should take the motor apart and clean up the gears etc. That is the disassembly I was asking about. Plus I need to replace the wheels on the 253 I bought. Looks like the same motor type and such. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The 254 motor doesn't look that bad to begin with. I typically just use an old 1" paint brush to clean off accumulated dirt & dust and follow that up with using contact cleaner spray, (electronic contact cleaning spray can). The main issues are the wiring and probable need for new brushes.

The wheel replacement on the 253 is not super hard either. There are different ways to remove the wheels. Typically you would use a wheel puller to get the old wheels off. Olsen Toy Train parts sells a wheel puller that is actually nothing more than a Faucet Puller, used to take a plumbing Faucet apart. You can buy the same tool at Home Depot/Lowes, etc. for under $12.00. My only suggestion would be to use a grinder, and grind down the flat surfaces(the right angled part), so that they can slide under the wheels/flanges. The center pin of the threaded handle is the same size as the axle hole. It just gets a little tricky getting everything lined up to get the wheels off.

The other method to remove wheels, is to use a punch, the same size or slightly smaller diameter than the axle hole. You need to put the frame on its side, and drive the punch thru the wheel to dislodge the wheel from the axle. Another tip using a punch is to use two cheap putty knives. Groove them with a dremel cutting wheel to create a set of forks. Slide them under the wheel, between the frame and back of wheel. Then using a nail punch force the axle out. Suspend the engine over some blocks (scrap 2 x 4" pieces) to give the axle room to fall. To press the wheels back on, a bench vise works but you need to insert washers into the wheel for even pressure. A C-clamp also works, but make sure the axles are sitting squarely into the wheel, and not lining up crooked.

What ever you think would be easier is up to you. Try to think thru the process, and it can be done.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes, agreed. Contact cleaner and a scotch bright pad to clean the comuter, wheels and pick ups. I also use a brass pipe cleaner thing to clean out the brush holders. Add oil to all moving parts, motor oil, nothing else. Run a bit off the track in case you over oil, that way it spins off and doesn't get on the track.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey, probably going to cause some unrest tonight but here is how my day went. The train show went great. I sold the green Pullman cars and pretty much broke even with my purchases a 17 17 gondola car what looks like a 2689w tender that works somewhat and some other odds and ends. 


Unfortunately to backtrack a day that 254 and 254e were not in the cards for me to fix so I packed them up and sent them to sandwparts for a professional diagnosis. 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cheif, we could walk you through it, but alas it's too late now. No worries, hope they get on the tracks soon!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Here are the cares I picked up yesterday.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

sjm9911 said:


> Cheif, we could walk you through it, but alas it's too late now. No worries, hope they get on the tracks soon!



Sj when the wiring harness pretty much fell off in my hand I was done. Besides I soldered my workbench really good. I need a lot of practice. Wih that said here is my newest conundrum.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Last pic didn't load, and those cars are nice! Does the whistle work?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Whistle works intermittently. Posted the vid again.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Nice additions to the collection. The 1717 gondola with the "Lionel" logo was a transition piece from the takeover of the Ives Trains, and in 1933 Lionel replace the "Ives" logo to "Lionel", which ran from 1933 to 1940. The tender could be either 1689 or 2689 series.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Stamp on the bottom looks like the 1689 but it has the box coupler


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Did the video work for the 253 running?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes, it worked. Good news is it runs! Bad news there is a short or loose wire somewhere.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

For intermittent whistles, take it apart , oil up the parts where it spins, clean contacts. It should work . I'll look for a thread.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2317
Some stuff on cleaning whistles


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Don't forget that the problem could always be the whistle controller too especially if its older. For the 253, almost the same thing, pop off the shell look for loose wires, clean all pickups with a scotch brite and some alcohol, clean the comuter, brush holders , and re assemble, oil all points that move. I don't have one but can try to guide you.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

First, the 1689 with box coupler only means it is a later issue, near 1939-1942, where early issues used latch couplers. I second the issues with the flickering whistle and lights. Most likely just dirty contacts, that a little cleaning can take care of. Check the post that sjm9911 linked, and follow the steps in that post.

Dirty contacts and lack of lubrication are the most common problems. Oil on rotating parts gets rid of most noises, and smooths out the running parts.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

On the loco, what is he best way to clean the contact rollers?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Scotch brite pad and alcohol ( the green pad to clean dishes) or a dermal. Dermal is a good tool for train stuff, I got the knock off at Costco a while back for like 35$ or check harbor freight for cheap tools. If using a dermal where eye protection and long pants, preferably jeans those little metal brushes like to fly off. I had some stuck in some sweat pants even after washing them, nasty little buggers.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

If the rollers are in the pictures on the link, there pretty worn out, you might be able to polish them, if you don't have a dermal a drill with a wire wheel might work. Or doc might know where to get replacements. I use the train tender for parts. Great guy to deal with. Doc, what do you think?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

OK so this is going to sound like a weird question however, You can see my workbench in almost every picture and you can see part of my gin cleaning supply. I have several aerosol moisture displacing lubricants. Are they safe to use? Remoil is one of my favorite oils. Q-tips and cotton patches get me through a lot of cleaning. Would alcohol on them be ok?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

FYI, this is a picture of my layout


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Any thing alcohol that will evaporate and not leave residue is fine, big ed used grain alcohol as for oil , motor oil for you car is what we use, it doesn't evaporate quickly and turn to muck like 3 and 1 oil or any thing else


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Lol, don't worry I can't get to my layout because of all the junk I buy I'm just glad you get better stuff then me, ill post a pic in a few days, its bad!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Fantastic looking "Layout".....ROFLMAO"!!!!!! Alcohol at 90%, is better than the 70%, if you can find it, from most drugstores. Another good solventis Naptha" aka "Lighter fluid". The key is something that evaporates quickly, and doesn't leave a residue. I agree with the use of motor oil, that you can transfer to a pin oiler to get into tight spaces. I myself, user sewing machine oil, (Freebie from when I worked), which is good for what I need. 

With the rollers on the loco, clean them up as mentioned above, and put a tiny dab of oil on the end pins of the roller, so they roll easy.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

What is this thing you call a "LAYOUT"???????...I have too many Prewar projects that needs finishing, all scattered into ziplock baggies and small boxes. Some need stripping & repaints, wheels & axles, etc. I usually set up an oval under the Xmas tree, with the wife's 1615 switcher, then back into set box after NewYears. 

I guess you can call yours a 'Shelf Layout'


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Soon I hope to be able to set up a small space for the trains to run and display them.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I picked these up today at the Westchester Toy and Train Show. Also picked up a postwar 1666, barrel car and last year's lionel train day boxcar.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Haven't forgotten about this thread. Home renovating the basement. Good thing I have a train room when it's done!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Kingston Train show yesterday. Nice time!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Lots of cool stuff! I can't wait to see it when you get the stuff on the wall The pSsanger set looks good for its age.....stop buying stuff before you run out of room for the layout!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

sjm9911 said:


> Lots of cool stuff! I can't wait to see it when you get the stuff on the wall The pSsanger set looks good for its age.....stop buying stuff before you run out of room for the layout!


I am almost done. I need 3 more cars prewar and 2 postwar loco's.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

https://www.facebook.com/gulfcoastmodelrailroad/

I visited this place today. I had a great time. Just a heads up for anyone in the Sarasota area a nice place to check out.


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

Chief, where did you get that "Train Room" lantern.
That just about the coolest accessory i have even seen.
Kinda looks like an old blinker from the streets, with a custom lens on it.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

At a train show. When I get home from Florida I will get the information for you. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

RonthePirate said:


> Chief, where did you get that "Train Room" lantern.
> That just about the coolest accessory i have even seen.
> Kinda looks like an old blinker from the streets, with a custom lens on it.


http://www.twingreenonline.com/misc.htm

Here is the link. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Picked up a few things today.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Pictures


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

No idea what these go to


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## rrswede (Jan 6, 2012)

Top photo looks like 259E and bottom photo looks like 249E.

swede


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey 'Fuz,

Did you go huntin' around the junkyard or something? Those are some tired looking relics ... though my kind of treasures! Did you find everything in one big lot, or are you piece-mealing with some Master Plan? Do tell.

The 1689 looks in decent shape. Too bad the 249 is missing its frame.

'Fess up ... what's your madness?!?



TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm s picker. I went through some boxes in the store. I like a restore project. If I can get them running I am good. If not I can always sell them for parts.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ha! I can relate to the addiction. If that 1689 ever calls out for a new home, let me know.

Enjoy the ride!

TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

After picking up the locomotive from my other thread I also picked up a few Marx freight cars and an American Flyer tank car and a 254 body at the shop. Again The Old and Weary Car Shop in Tappan NY is a great place. If you are looking for some good finds or project trains this is a good place to go. I am extremely satisfied with the quality and the great service.


Pictures soon!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Here are the complete cars.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

This one needs a little help. Not much though.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Now to get some parts on order for the 258 and 1698e.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok, my name is Brendan and I am an addict.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Marx wind up set. I think it's postwar. Not sure. But I love it!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Looks great. I like the Marx lithos, always liked them for some reason. The simplicity of the designs or the retro toy like feel. Fun......


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

Hey, Chief...........just a thank you for the link to that train room site.
http://redirect.viglink.com/?format...e&txt=http://www.twingreenonline.com/misc.htm
haha, showed it to my wife, I'm getting the 30" RR crossing yellow round sign.
The lights are out of our range, being on fixed income SS, but that sign just screamed to order it.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Awesome! Glad to hear Ron!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

They need some work but I like them.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Nobody warn Jeff Kane that I am going to be emailing him a wish list soon lol!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Lol, stuff looks solid! Probably runs as good now as 60 years ago


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Oh and how solid are the weels? They look toasted!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Wheels need to be replaced on both. The commodore needs to be checked out. I think the eunit is stuck. 

Just to be sure. The red electric is a 150 right?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Not 100 percent but looks like it!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

looks good!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Bell is still on, so that's a plus! It will clean up good, or better yet will get a new paint job. Its cool. And I don't own one.... So I'm jealous...


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I like the way it looks now lol. It has character.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Got the 150 rolling today! Thank God for Jeff Kane!


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## Dieseler (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes Jeff Kane is good to have around to buy parts from along with being friendly on phone and very helpful.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Absolutely! I have to say that the people here are top notch as well


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Greenwich Train show scores this past weekend.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Real nice! To the point where I think your rubbing it in, now I want more stuff!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Ummmm I ummmmm oh no.......


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Just an FYI the 153 is a repaint.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

ABC Hobbycraft in Evansville Indiana had these laying around.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice looking crane! And the 258 looks ready for action, too!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Crane needs a hook. When I get home I will test the locomotive.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Nice catch, your collection is growing by leaps and bounds!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Put it on the track and it hummed. Going to have to check it out.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

T-Man said:


> Nice catch, your collection is growing by leaps and bounds!


Tman, thanks for everyone's help.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

JB Weld on the 258 frame. Pictures later on the assembled product.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Nice fix. Not perfect but good enough. Will touch it up and after that replace the wheels on it.......


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

258 group shot. And 257 group shot.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey Chief,

I'm lovin' your 257 / 258 stable. Other than trim color and I think the addition of a manual reverse switch, is there any physical difference between the locos? Just curious.

Drooling ...

TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't see any real physical differences except for the latter model of the 258 when lionel completely retooled the whole locomotive and continued it in the 259 series. Below is the latter model.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks. I was aware of the later 258 (near 259 clone) ... I had fun with one on a project a while back. But I've never fiddled with the 257 / orig 258 locos. Your pics above (along with a bit of reading) leads me to believe that they are essentially the same, albeit for trim color and addition of a manual switch.

As you delve, if you see any other difference, I'd be curious to know.

Thanks, Chief!

TJ


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

TJ, To answer one of your questions, the 257 & 258 EARLY versions, are the same tooling. They were made in 1930, after Lionel acquired the Ives Co., and were produced both under the Ives Trademark, and under the Lionel Trademark. The main difference is the lack of a reversing unit in the 257, which the 258 had a hand reversing unit installed. The frames of both were die-cast frames, and the pilots were prone to breakage, which is evident on Chief's one frame. The tenders found with a 257 could be a 257 die-cast tender (4 wheel), or a 259 tender. The 258 came with either the 257 (4 wheel) tender, or the (8 wheel) tender. The 257T tender came in three versions, Black with Orange stripe, plain Black, or Black Crackle finish.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

TJ there was also an IVES 258 locomotive too. Essentially the same as this and the IVES were transition locomotives.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The early versions of the 257/258 were made from the Ives tooling, but Lionel had ownership of the bankrupt company. They were initially made in 1930 as Uncataloged sets, and not shown in a Lionel catalog for 1931-1932. Anything in the timeframe of 1930 up to 1935 are all considered Transition trains, as Lionel started to integrate some of the Ives designs into their own, and brought Lionel into the Lower valued trains, to boost sales. By 1936, most of Lionel's Standard Gauge was being phased out of production. 

The 257/258 loco came with both the Ives trademark, and the Lionel trademark, with the Ives markings having a higher value.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Doc, Chief ... many thanks for the good info, above! Fun history!

TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

tjcruiser said:


> Doc, Chief ... many thanks for the good info, above! Fun history!
> 
> TJ


Tj,

More to come.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Never posted these. 259 and 261.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That 261 is gorgeous! The copper/brass looks to be in great shape!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

tjcruiser said:


> That 261 is gorgeous! The copper/brass looks to be in great shape!


Thanks dude, I love it. I am an addict lol


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Yup Chief, Welcome to the Darkside of Prewar Tinplate....addictive is just one descriptor...


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Did some work on the train room today. We now have a room instead of a skeleton!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Looks like you are getting a good start. Keep up the progress.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

LOTS of 110V outlets. I like it!!!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Been kind of quiet lately no new prewar stuff, got transferred at work to the training bureau and have been working on Sunday when most of the train shows are happening. With a fresh coat of paint and signs hung tomorrow I start on the 4x8 portion of the train table. Hope to have pictures tomorrow. Oh and I also have number 3 on the way, due the end of May.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow ... you save the best news for last. Congrats ... almost. Hope it's a happy delivery!

TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks tj! Here is a picture of the final stage of today. 4x8 section.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Chief, Great update on the layout, and looking for more, when you get the time. If you go back to Post 10 on this thread, I was talking about Prewar books, and how I shopped around for good deals. I mentioned that I stuck primarily to Lionel. GOTTA change that now. TJ & I have been bantering back and forth with Windup Lionel’s & the transition from Ives, since Lionel took over Ives, in 1929, with catalogs overlapping 1930-1932. Well, you might have guessed, I am collecting Ives catalogs & Lionel catalogs 1931-1933. The library has expanded quite a bit, since the Post#10.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

That's great Doc! Can't wait to see the updates!

Did a little cleaning and moving stuff around and took another picture. The layout is going to be an L. Next bench is going to be on the blue wall to the right.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Chief, What’s in the big box marked Graco....that doesn’t belong in a train room...ROFLMAO


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Soon it will be deployed in one of the vehicles in my household.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Some shelving done. Definitely 1 more but debating on maybe adding 2 more instead of just 1.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Well you’re getting something done, while the snow is coming down. Keep at it, when the time permits.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Think I will be adding another shelf. But all prewar on these 1x2's supported on every stud.


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

On that last photo......did you rip out your layout there to make room for train storage?
You have some beautiful equipment.
I don't blame you for every stud getting a bracket.

EDIT: Just read back one page. I see now what the plan is.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

'Fuz,

The prewar collection on the trio of shelves looks FABULOUS. I offer that with a dose of jealously, of course! 



TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks. I just figured it would be better to do the shelves before I finish the rest of the table.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Last shelf on this wall. All prewar!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Off to the hardware store for supplies!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Seems like someone’s change of jobs, causes a little more free time, to work on his “Tinplate” world. Looking good so far!!!:smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos:


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

That, and the fact that in 2 months there will be a sleeping baby here and the noise of construction will not be a good thing lol. A sleeping baby is a good baby lol!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

A sleeping baby that sleeps through the night, is a Wonderful thing...one can only wish for that.......


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Prewar shelves are done! Now for the rest of the table!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The shelves look full, SO, does that mean No More buying????? LOL


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Lmao I still have another wall to put shelves on.


Plus here is the lower level......


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Upper level


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Someone has been really busy!!!! Things are coming along nicely.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Yes very busy today. Almost done, about 90 % done at least. Need to do some small things but I will probably be laying track sometime this week.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Those shelves are multiplying like rabbits! Looks nice!

What is that "grass" covered jigsaw rubber flooring material? Made for outside patios and the like? Expensive???


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Tj the wife bought that for me for Christmas I don't know the cost but it is like padded flooring that fits together like a jigsaw puzzle.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, Chief. Yeah, I figured it was a basement or rec-room style flooring pad. First time I've seen one with the "grass" finish like that. Nice use for a tinplate toy-style layout!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

https://www.rubberflooringinc.com/interlocking-tile/foam/58-soft-turf-tiles.html

This is the link to the flooring.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, Chief!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Doc, tj and all, has anyone read this yet?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Chief, I have not read, or purchased this volume. I have, however, had the opportunity to see a few select pages that Bruce forwarded, to me, with the 253 loco. The 253, is the one loco, that Bruce has studied the most. I am waiting for the second volume, that will cover through the mid 1930’s. That will be the volume, that will have my research, on the Torpedoes. From some others comments, the book is well worth the investment ($100), If you want to know all the known intricacies, of the early years of Lionel “0” Gauge.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Doc I can't wait for the next one to read your stuff


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Chief, You are going to have to wait at least two years, from now. Bruce has just recently started on his next addition, and it won't be in print for a while. I will be attending YORK, next October, and taking most of what I have, to get photographed, and write ups, on all the variations.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

It's a "nope" from me. Haven't read that Greenberg volume. Much of my prewar library includes David Doyle's catalogs.

Looks like a good read/reference, though!


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## Dieseler (Jan 29, 2014)

First time i have seen that one so thanks.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

The book that Chief shows in the first post, is Greenberg’s updated version, that he has just released for sale. I don’t know exactly how many he has had printed, but apparently it is a limited run. His earlier books were printed by Kalmbach, which is part of Classic Toy Trains (CTT). These newer books have NO connection with Kalmbach, and are Bruce’s own printing, owned solely by him. The first book was broken down to cover 1915-1928, for “0” Gauge trains. His next book for “0” Gauge, will pick up from 1929 through the 1930’s. 

With the use of the internet, and numerous auction houses (such as eBay and other Auctions), there are many new items, that are now seeing the light of day, so the updated books were needed. There are a lot of Variations, to a whole group of locos, that Bruce felt the need to print New Updated books. The pricing is firm at $100, per book. For those that are into Prewar, and enjoy collecting, these new books are a “Must Have”, and from people who have bought the first book, have nothing but good reviews. The next book that will cover the 1930’s, won’t be done for at least 2 more years, before it goes to print. 

I will be meeting with Bruce Greenberg, at the October York meet, to have the research I have done with the 1588/1668/1688 torpedoes, documented, and photographs taken of the locos I own. His earlier book, listed 8 variations of the 1688/1688E. I have found 18 variations, along with more variations of the 1588 windup, & the 1668/1668E. I am looking forward to the October York meeting.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

teledoc said:


> I am looking forward to the October York meeting.


Jerry, we're still looking forward to the Spring meeting!


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

John, Although I would love to go to the Spring meet, it’s a definite No Go, this time around. BUT, the October meet is definitely on....I have paid reservations, all ready booked, and I just joined the TCA, so I think October is definite. So, do you think I’m serious about October’s York meet??? LOL!!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Some work today. Mixture of prewar accessories, postwar and modern trains.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Done with shelves for now. Hopefully I'll have track laid this week or next!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Prewar trains got track on their shelves. Postwar did not.

Sounds to me like Prewar maintains the upper hand in the ChiefMcFuz man-cave!

  

(Great progress! Thanks for keeping us updated!)

TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Ready to lay some track!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok, so I worked tonight on the layout. Got most of it done. Going to need a few bumpers and some rewired ucs track controllers.

I have one switch that when you switch it to the straight position it automatically goes back to the left. Do I need to switch the location of the plastic pins? 

All in all it works nicely. Have to make a few adjustments I think but I am overall satisfied with the layout as it is. Ran it with a 204 and my ZW.

Going to do some cleanup and organize the mess on the floor and work from there running the wire nicely.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Wow, nice man. Is the switch that moves on the back to back switched?


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## Dieseler (Jan 29, 2014)

The prewar trains on shelves in last picture are they hard to reach if you want to run them .
They look very nice.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

sjm9911 said:


> Wow, nice man. Is the switch that moves on the back to back switched?


Yes it is.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Dieseler said:


> The prewar trains on shelves in last picture are they hard to reach if you want to run them .
> They look very nice.


I can with a small step stool.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice track layout. Great use of the space!!!


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Sjm what is the back to back switch fix?


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

tjcruiser said:


> Nice track layout. Great use of the space!!!


Thanks tj.

I think I figured out the back to back switch thing.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Wiring still needs to be made nice but the track layout is finally done.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I can't remember, lol. It might have been for 027 only. But I do remember there being a problum with back to back switches. It seams as if the derailing feature triggers the other switch to turn also. I will look to see if I can find it.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

I fixed it. Insulated the 2 outside tracks on both of the switches.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cool, so that's what it was, nice Man! And the layout is looking good.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

sjm9911 said:


> Cool, so that's what it was, nice Man! And the layout is looking good.


Thanks. Can't wait to get it all buttoned up and get to run some trains on it.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Something nice is on the way...........................


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Got here today.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Very nice addition to the roster...have fun with it.


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

The bottom of the locomotive is a little warped. Any suggestions on how to straighten it?


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

You have to post a photo so we can see the “warp??” In question. If we can see how bad or where it is, we might come up with a solution. What is the body made of? Is it Tin or die cast, as I haven’t seen one in person.:laugh:


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Brown top and yellow sides are tin, bottom brown is cast


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Is that warp just on the one side you show in photo, or is it the same on both sides??? From the phot, the bottom, with the warp, appears to be removable??? Is it that way. I think I have a solution, but need those answers.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

From what I see, it looks like the bottom frame plate can be removed, from the rest of the loco. If that is the case, and you can get just the whole bottom plate off, without anything attached to it, taking that warp out should be simple.

Get a 1"x 4" pine board, and cut two pieces long enough to span the length of the frame. You can use "C" clamps, but preferably a bench vise. Sandwich the boards, with the frame between them, and you can tighten the clamps VERY SLOWLY, basically squeezing the boards together, and closing the WARP. If you have a bench vise, that would be better yet, as the two jaws are squeezing evenly across the warped area. The clamps have to be done one at a time, and aren't as consistent as a vise would be. 
***Just make sure that you go very slowly, and take a small turns, every few hours, so you aren't forcing it too fast. If you take your time, you should be able to get the frame warp, fairly straight.*** Got any questions about doing it, just ask.

I have straightened a few items using C clamps, like Cab Roofs, Steps on 1688/1668 locos. You just can't go quickly, but slow methodical compression, over time.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

It is both sides. I will try it with my vice.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Let me know how you made out , with taking the warp out, and if my suggestion worked. The key to it, is don't try to compress it too quickly, and just take half turns every few hours, until the bend gets straightened. I have had success doing this method.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto on the SLOW clamp. I've done this with some bent cast-metal 1688 loco shells, with good success. As Jerry says, just a fraction of a vice/clamp turn, spread out over a few days.

Hoping it straighten things out!

TJ


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## Chiefmcfuz (Dec 30, 2008)

Took it out of the vice today and put it on the shelf. Looks like it worked a little bit but I am too chicken as of now to push it more. I will try again in a couple of days to push it a little more.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Patience Young Grasshopper!! Trust me, it will work, but the key is not to brute force it, all at once. If you take basically half turns on the vise, over time, the die cast is pretty forgiving. I have had a few steps on Torpedo bodies that were bent, close to 45 degrees, and are perfectly straight now. :smilie_daumenpos:


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