# Extremely New. Where to start? ... 1950's AF / S



## pompetti

My dad passed away last year and I inherited his 50's era American Flyer trains. I remember his running these last back in the mid 80s and they haven't been used at all since then.

I'd love to get these up and running on a simple 4x8 layout. Where do I start? I've got a lot of questions.

Here are some pictures of the equipment. 

Part1
Part2
Part3
Part4
Part5
Part6
Part7

There's also:

20 curved pieces with the rubber beds in various grays and blacks.
18 curved pieces with no bed.
4 Half curved pieces with no bed.
16 straight pieces with rubber beds in various grays and blacks.
4 Half straight pieces with rubber beds in various grays and blacks.

The 342AC needs all of the wiring redone. The tender isn't screwed together.
Where can I get a new wiring harness?

The 355 Baldwin Diesel has broken off steps and the back plate is off. Is it worth trying to reglue the pieces or find a replacement shell?

The 20520 Bankers set looks to be in good shape. What should I check before attempting to run it?

Is there a diagram on what the various pieces are on the undercarriage of the rolling stock? When I go looking for parts I'd like to know the correct terms are for the wheels, trucks, couplers etc.

Most of the couplers are in bad shape. Can I fix whats there or is it better to replace them?

One of the cabooses is missing the trucks on one end. Where can I get parts for that?

What grade wire do I need to run from the transformer to the track? 

What can I do to clean the track? I see people offering burnishing services, would that be something I should look into?

What kind of equipment do I need to do some of the cleaning myself? I've got a basic screw driver set and a cordless drill. 

I'll stop asking questions at this point and take any and all advice you can give. Thanks for reading this long post.

Paul


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## Kwikster

Some very nice looking pieces there.

More than likely you have most tools you'll need most. You may have to invest in some good wire stripper/crimpers. 

A few basic things. First, I'd start by doing a very careful cleaning and lubrication of each piece including rolling stock and locomotives. Use 5w-20/30 motor oil, only takes a drop or two. Be sure to closely inspect brushes and commutators. Clean the comm surface with either 91% of better isopropyl alcohol or Goo-Gone. If the surface is grooved, a gentle sanding with some 600 grit or finer wet/dry sand paper will work. Be sure to remove and old grease and gunk using the above cleaners and lots of q-tips and possibly a toothbrush.

Track, I wouldn't spend the money on a burnishing service. Get some green Scotch-Brite pads, the kind used for kitchen work. Some elbow grease will bring it back. You only need to focus on the top of the rails, since that's where electricity is conducted. 

Transformer to track wire 18 gauge should be plenty, if setting up 4x8 or larger add a second power drop spaced 1/2 way around the layout to minimize voltage loss.

Carl


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## Big Ed

Sorry about Dad.

Welcome to the site.
I like that old limo on the flatbed is that plastic? The New Haven passenger set is nice too, your Dad had a good eye.:thumbsup:

After you service them, you need to start with your table. If you can spare a little more space for the layout I will say do it from the beginning. Even if it is only a foot on one side making it a 5x8, or a foot on the side and a foot on the ends making it a 5x9. 
It always seems like after you start you will want to make a bigger one anyway.
So use as much space as you can in the beginning.
You start on the table then add a loop so you can run some while working on the rest.
If you need it there are track planning programs.
Here are some S plans, http://www.thortrains.net/flyrlay1.htm

That is from here, http://www.thortrains.net/ there is a S section there, they have a lot of general train info on the site too.

Ask away here if you need to know, don't be shy, someone should help.


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## Big Ed

I didn't read the rest after the pictures.

The 342AC needs all of the wiring redone. The tender isn't screwed together.
Where can I get a new wiring harness?
I don't have any Flyers.
You should be able to make one up.
Maybe someone knows of an available harness.
 
The 355 Baldwin Diesel has broken off steps and the back plate is off. Is it worth trying to reglue the pieces or find a replacement shell?

Search T mans threads he epoxy's everything back on and makes it look like new. Just type epoxy in search 10,000 post should show up.
I will try that when I am done answering this.
 
The 20520 Bankers set looks to be in good shape. What should I check before attempting to run it?

Let this question sit, I would say just service it before running. Without going back and looking at the pictures I guess this is an engine?

Is there a diagram on what the various pieces are on the undercarriage of the rolling stock? When I go looking for parts I'd like to know the correct terms are for the wheels, trucks, couplers etc.

I think there is a site for this, T man might have posted it, a true S man should know. We have a few here if they don't say anything I will go search. I think they have been posted, did you search the S forum here?

Most of the couplers are in bad shape. Can I fix whats there or is it better to replace them?

If they are in real bad shape I would say swap them out with new ones, but post pictures of the bad ones maybe they aren't that bad. Maybe you just think they are really bad.

One of the cabooses is missing the trucks on one end. Where can I get parts for that?

S man should help with this.

What grade wire do I need to run from the transformer to the track? 

I use 14 gauge for my Lionel main lines it is a bit of overkill but I had a roll, 18 gauge is good too, an S man might even go as small as 22? I say the heavier won't hurt anything. Just for your track, accessories you can use old telephone wire, the kind you open up and there are about 20 little wires inside, you know what I am talking about? 

What can I do to clean the track? I see people offering burnishing services, would that be something I should look into?

We have track cleaning threads look in the O help section, don't use steel wool or sandpaper, basically just hit them with goo be gone or WD40 and wipe/scrub with a kitchen green scotch bright pad. You really only need the top nice and shiny for running, the insides just for looks. 
Do the wheels on the locomotives too, that is what makes your engine run, the cleaner the better.  

What kind of equipment do I need to do some of the cleaning myself? I've got a basic screw driver set and a cordless drill. 

A Dremal tool with some stainless wire wheels cleans up a lot of things

I'll stop asking questions at this point and take any and all advice you can give. Thanks for reading this long post.

No problem I am limited on time during the week days or I would have thrown some links in instead of telling you to search for them.

I am surprised the S man have not said anything yet, is this posted in the S forum?
If not ask a mod to put it in the S forum. The S men will see it then.

Edit,
I see it is in the S, wait a bit I am sure some S men will come to the rescue.


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## tjcruiser

Paul,

Welcome to the forum. Condolences on your father, but it's nice to see you delving into his trains / carrying on his interests.

I'll defer to AF / S guys for specifics, but here's a nice AF / S resources thread that might be helpful ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2567

Regards,

TJ


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## flyernut

big ed said:


> I didn't read the rest after the pictures.
> 
> The 342AC needs all of the wiring redone. The tender isn't screwed together.
> Where can I get a new wiring harness?
> I don't have any Flyers.
> You should be able to make one up.
> Maybe someone knows of an available harness.
> 
> The 355 Baldwin Diesel has broken off steps and the back plate is off. Is it worth trying to reglue the pieces or find a replacement shell?
> 
> Search T mans threads he epoxy's everything back on and makes it look like new. Just type epoxy in search 10,000 post should show up.
> I will try that when I am done answering this.
> 
> The 20520 Bankers set looks to be in good shape. What should I check before attempting to run it?
> 
> Let this question sit, I would say just service it before running. Without going back and looking at the pictures I guess this is an engine?
> 
> Is there a diagram on what the various pieces are on the undercarriage of the rolling stock? When I go looking for parts I'd like to know the correct terms are for the wheels, trucks, couplers etc.
> 
> I think there is a site for this, T man might have posted it, a true S man should know. We have a few here if they don't say anything I will go search. I think they have been posted, did you search the S forum here?
> 
> Most of the couplers are in bad shape. Can I fix whats there or is it better to replace them?
> 
> If they are in real bad shape I would say swap them out with new ones, but post pictures of the bad ones maybe they aren't that bad. Maybe you just think they are really bad.
> 
> One of the cabooses is missing the trucks on one end. Where can I get parts for that?
> 
> S man should help with this.
> 
> What grade wire do I need to run from the transformer to the track?
> 
> I use 14 gauge for my Lionel main lines it is a bit of overkill but I had a roll, 18 gauge is good too, an S man might even go as small as 22? I say the heavier won't hurt anything. Just for your track, accessories you can use old telephone wire, the kind you open up and there are about 20 little wires inside, you know what I am talking about?
> 
> What can I do to clean the track? I see people offering burnishing services, would that be something I should look into?
> 
> We have track cleaning threads look in the O help section, don't use steel wool or sandpaper, basically just hit them with goo be gone or WD40 and wipe/scrub with a kitchen green scotch bright pad. You really only need the top nice and shiny for running, the insides just for looks.
> Do the wheels on the locomotives too, that is what makes your engine run, the cleaner the better.
> 
> What kind of equipment do I need to do some of the cleaning myself? I've got a basic screw driver set and a cordless drill.
> 
> A Dremal tool with some stainless wire wheels cleans up a lot of things
> 
> I'll stop asking questions at this point and take any and all advice you can give. Thanks for reading this long post.
> 
> No problem I am limited on time during the week days or I would have thrown some links in instead of telling you to search for them.
> 
> I am surprised the S man have not said anything yet, is this posted in the S forum?
> If not ask a mod to put it in the S forum. The S men will see it then.
> 
> Edit,
> I see it is in the S, wait a bit I am sure some S men will come to the rescue.


"S"-men??? That big "S" means SUPERMAN!!!!


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## flyernut

Welcome new S guy!!!Nice to have you... First let's start with the Bankers set.. Lock up that sucker in a safe, don't do anything that will destroy it's originality!! Back in 2000 that set was worth approx $1700 bucks....Your 355 Baldwin switcher set is the same one I had as a kid back in the 50's.. I have 2 of those sets now.It's the orange reefer, black gondola, and a 806 caboose.There's always shells showing up on ebay so I would look for one there. In the meantime, I would fix what I have on hand.... Knuckle couplers, if intact, are easy to fix and replace. Most of the time they are rusted either shut or open. Hit them with WD40 or PB Blaster. Let them soak and slowly work them....Ebay also has your wiring harness, or I can make one up for you if need be. PortLine Hobbies will have EVERYTHING you need to get these trains rolling once again.....Get yourself a "bright boy" at any good hobby store or train shop. It looks like a pink eraser with tiny particles of abrasive embedded in it. It works wonders on your track surfaces.(get 2)....Get yourself a dremel tool with an assortment of brushes and polishing pads.... Trucks are available on ebay or PortLines... To clean, I use a toothbrush and dish washing detergent, a small amount, and go to town.Luke warm water is best, but stay away from decals,etc. To add some luster, after cleaning, give the car a shot of "pledge" furniture polish. It will really make the car shine. But most of all, when in need, stop here and ask!!! Pictures are a great help so we know what you're talking about, and to get on the same and correct page with terminology. Best wishes, and here's to a long and new friendship.....Loren


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## AmFlyer

A couple of thoughts from a Flyer collector/ operator. 
Gilbert track is very durable and is not "tinplate" in the strict sense. It is solid steel so it can be sanded or cleaned with an abrasive without fear of removing any plating. Electrical conductivity is crucial. Your good friends will be Goo Gone or similar citric acid based cleaner for the wheels and Radio Shack spray electrical contact cleaner. 
A 4X8 sheet is not great for AF since a circle with one standard straight track requires about 52". Circles are about 40" outside diameter. Burnishing the track is overkill for what you have. 
You have many great pieces. It would be super if you could find some pictures of how your dad had these set up!
With most AF equipment 18 gauge wire will be adequate. 
There are several vendors online that sell all the repair parts you need. I recommend you look at Carl Tuveson's website for some links. (Tuveson .com). The American Flyer Toy Train Club of Denver also has many good links. 
Enjoy the trains!
Tom


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## flyernut

Yep, like the man says, 4x8 just isn't that workable; 5x9 is the way to go.


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## THE TYCO MAN

Welcome to American Flyer! That's truly nice classic collection there. I have one that runs and great engines I think.


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## pompetti

First off, thanks for all the tips I've received so far. I'm busy cleaning up the track tonight. I've got some more picture to post regarding couplers and the Baldwin diesel.



Kwikster said:


> Some very nice looking pieces there.
> 
> More than likely you have most tools you'll need most. You may have to invest in some good wire stripper/crimpers.
> 
> Track, I wouldn't spend the money on a burnishing service. Get some green Scotch-Brite pads, the kind used for kitchen work. Some elbow grease will bring it back. You only need to focus on the top of the rails, since that's where electricity is conducted.
> 
> Transformer to track wire 18 gauge should be plenty, if setting up 4x8 or larger add a second power drop spaced 1/2 way around the layout to minimize voltage loss.
> 
> Carl


I picked up the Scotch-Brite tonight and it's doing wonders on the tracks.

I've got a box with a rats nest of old wire and an equally old crimper/stripper. I always like to have quality tools. What brands/models would you recommend.



big ed said:


> Sorry about Dad.
> 
> I like that old limo on the flatbed is that plastic? The New Haven passenger set is nice too, your Dad had a good eye.:thumbsup:
> 
> After you service them, you need to start with your table. If you can spare a little more space for the layout I will say do it from the beginning. Even if it is only a foot on one side making it a 5x8, or a foot on the side and a foot on the ends making it a 5x9.
> It always seems like after you start you will want to make a bigger one anyway.
> So use as much space as you can in the beginning.
> You start on the table then add a loop so you can run some while working on the rest.
> If you need it there are track planning programs.
> Here are some S plans, http://www.thortrains.net/flyrlay1.htm
> 
> That is from here, http://www.thortrains.net/ there is a S section there, they have a lot of general train info on the site too.
> 
> Ask away here if you need to know, don't be shy, someone should help.


The car is metal and says Manoil on the inside. 

The thortrains set is nice. With the plasticville houses and the track I've got on hand, I'm thinking of using one of the Kid Friendly layouts. I've got a 5 year old nephew that would go crazy for this stuff.

From reading up on thing's it looks like a 5x9 would be a good start because of the size of a turning circle. I've got the base and frame of an 8 foot pool table with no slate on it to use for the base to start. 



flyernut said:


> Knuckle couplers, if intact, are easy to fix and replace. Most of the time they are rusted either shut or open. Hit them with WD40 or PB Blaster. Let them soak and slowly work them....Ebay also has your wiring harness, or I can make one up for you if need be. PortLine Hobbies will have EVERYTHING you need to get these trains rolling once again.


The ones that are intact are rusted. Looks like some WD40 will help that.
Thanks!

I'll post picture of the other ones. From examining them closely all the parts have numbers on them. Looks like I know what to order from Portline.



AmFlyer said:


> A couple of thoughts from a Flyer collector/ operator.
> Gilbert track is very durable and is not "tinplate" in the strict sense. It is solid steel so it can be sanded or cleaned with an abrasive without fear of removing any plating. Electrical conductivity is crucial. Your good friends will be Goo Gone or similar citric acid based cleaner for the wheels and Radio Shack spray electrical contact cleaner.
> A 4X8 sheet is not great for AF since a circle with one standard straight track requires about 52". Circles are about 40" outside diameter. Burnishing the track is overkill for what you have.
> You have many great pieces. It would be super if you could find some pictures of how your dad had these set up!
> With most AF equipment 18 gauge wire will be adequate.


Is the electrical contact cleaner for anything metal such as engine wheels and track? Goo gone for the plastic wheels? 

From what I can remember he did either a figure 8 or an oval with a smaller oval on the inside. With only the single pair of 720A switches there wasn't much else. 

The designs I'm interested in call for a few more switches. I'll have to scour the web for more.

What kind of wood should I use for the 5x9 base?


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## pompetti

So here are some picture of the couplers.

In the first picture, I see two type of ways to connect the coupler to the truck (is that the right terminology?). The left shows them being held in place with metal tabs. I've got a coupler that is broken, the plastic piece that pivots on the hinge is mostly gone. Would needle nose pliers to bend the tabs be the way to replace that type of coupler?

The coupler on the right is held in by a pin but there's no coupler there. I'm guessing that pliers would be the way to get the pin out and place a new coupler in there?

What are those 2 types of couplers called? It looks like I'll need a magnifying glass to get the part numbers since they are so tiny.

Coupler1
Coupler2

Now the Engine
From looking at this picture Wiring Diagram

It looks like both brushes are the issue. The one attached to the green wire is not attached. The black wire has nothing on the end. How do I re-attach them and what would the part # be? Do both of them need to be replaced?

Engine1
Engine2
Engine3


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## flyernut

pompetti said:


> First off, thanks for all the tips I've received so far. I'm busy cleaning up the track tonight. I've got some more picture to post regarding couplers and the Baldwin diesel.
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up the Scotch-Brite tonight and it's doing wonders on the tracks.
> 
> I've got a box with a rats nest of old wire and an equally old crimper/stripper. I always like to have quality tools. What brands/models would you recommend.
> 
> 
> 
> The car is metal and says Manoil on the inside.
> 
> The thortrains set is nice. With the plasticville houses and the track I've got on hand, I'm thinking of using one of the Kid Friendly layouts. I've got a 5 year old nephew that would go crazy for this stuff.
> 
> From reading up on thing's it looks like a 5x9 would be a good start because of the size of a turning circle. I've got the base and frame of an 8 foot pool table with no slate on it to use for the base to start.
> 
> 
> 
> The ones that are intact are rusted. Looks like some WD40 will help that.
> Thanks!
> 
> I'll post picture of the other ones. From examining them closely all the parts have numbers on them. Looks like I know what to order from Portline.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the electrical contact cleaner for anything metal such as engine wheels and track? Goo gone for the plastic wheels?
> 
> From what I can remember he did either a figure 8 or an oval with a smaller oval on the inside. With only the single pair of 720A switches there wasn't much else.
> 
> The designs I'm interested in call for a few more switches. I'll have to scour the web for more.
> 
> What kind of wood should I use for the 5x9 base?


I use 1/2" plywood, 24" on center, and use 2x4 legs. I'll get some pictures up in the morning. When my littlest son was 5, I made sure he could walk on it to help with derailments, putting up houses, etc. He's now 6', at 175lbs, and he can still walk on it.As a kid we had 2 loops, and a pair of switches.Be careful of goo gone; it's citrus based and can be harmful to some plastics. Switches can be found on ebay at any time and expect to pay about $50 bucks for a pair, with controller.


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## flyernut

Picture #1 about couplers...The one on the left is of course a knuckle coupler. Knuckle couplers will use that type of truck, (sintered metal). On the green gondola in the same picture, the car has a SHEET METAL truck, with nickle journals, and will use a link coupler. 
Picture #2.. the caboose on the right has the SHEET METAL truck, with nickle journals, and should have a link coupler. Someone has used the knuckle coupler conversion on that one. Do you care about originality?? Cars whose number starts with 600 should have link couplers,i.e. 660, 642, 631, etc..
On your wiring diagram, that's a good one, and easy to follow.
On the wiring issues, follow your wiring diagram and simply re-solder.


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## pompetti

flyernut said:


> Picture #1 about couplers...The one on the left is of course a knuckle coupler. Knuckle couplers will use that type of truck, (sintered metal). On the green gondola in the same picture, the car has a SHEET METAL truck, with nickle journals, and will use a link coupler.
> Picture #2.. the caboose on the right has the SHEET METAL truck, with nickle journals, and should have a link coupler. Someone has used the knuckle coupler conversion on that one. Do you care about originality?? Cars whose number starts with 600 should have link couplers,i.e. 660, 642, 631, etc..
> On your wiring diagram, that's a good one, and easy to follow.
> On the wiring issues, follow your wiring diagram and simply re-solder.


Thanks for the info on the couplers. Can link couplers attach to knuckle couplers? 

I found this diagram Baldwin Parts and it appears I need brush springs (left and right), a brush holder with the brush attached. The springs don't have a part #. Any ideas on where I could find those?


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## AmFlyer

Knuckle couplers and link couplers do not mate. Each has strengths and weaknesses. All link coupler cars can be converted to knuckle couplers but generally not vice versa. The knuckles made for this conversion are held on by a special pin. There is a hard steel tool made for taking off and reinstalling link couplers. I just make up several transition cars (one link, one knuckle) so I can use any engine with any set of cars. 
The Goo Gone is for the wheels and track surface to remove dirt and grease. The contact cleaner is for commutators and electrical contacts. I also use it on the axle ends on link coupler trucks to remove buildup and improve contact before adding a drop of oil. Do not get either on painted surfaces, lettering or decals. 
Another useful product is electrical conductive grease. It comes in a small tube, I have found it at both OSH and Home Depot. Make sure the track pins are tight, then add a small amount of the grease on the pin. I did this with track assembled six years ago and still have no bad joints or voltage drop at the joints. 
Setting up and wiring an AF layout can be different than a Lionel because of the two rail track and power routing turnouts. 
Tom


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## flyernut

pompetti said:


> Thanks for the info on the couplers. Can link couplers attach to knuckle couplers?
> 
> I found this diagram Baldwin Parts and it appears I need brush springs (left and right), a brush holder with the brush attached. The springs don't have a part #. Any ideas on where I could find those?


Brushes are AF part #PA14A414....Brush holders AF part#PA14A588....Brush spring AF part# is PA14A407 R, and PA14A407 L... The brushes and brush holders do not come assembled, you must assemble them. I think the last time I did it, I soldered the 2 pieces together.And you're going to have a hard time finding all of these parts.


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## flyernut

pompetti said:


> Thanks for the info on the couplers. Can link couplers attach to knuckle couplers?
> 
> I found this diagram Baldwin Parts and it appears I need brush springs (left and right), a brush holder with the brush attached. The springs don't have a part #. Any ideas on where I could find those?


Let me see what I can do.. It might take a day or 2.


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## pompetti

There's a train show in Springfield, MA this coming weekend.

I'm thinking that would be a good place to look for parts or at least find someone who can get them. It looks like the folks from PortLines will be there. I'll start with them.

Those part numbers for the springs will be a great help. Just looking up the word springs lists a lot of different #s.


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## tjcruiser

Pompetti,

I just noticed your Rhode Island tag. Where abouts?

The Amherst (West Springfield) train show is a good one ... quite large ... 4 big buildings. PortLines always has a nice setup. You'll enjoy it. Print out a floorplan / dealer map, so you can find your way around / back.

http://www.railroadhobbyshow.com/files/files/ARS 2013 Building Layout.1.2.13(1).pdf

http://www.railroadhobbyshow.com/files/files/2013 Exhibitor List.1.12.13.pdf

TJ


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## pompetti

I live in the Rumford section of East Providence. How about you?

Hopefully we don't get too much snow on Saturday. That's the only day I can drive up to Springfield.


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## flyernut

pompetti said:


> There's a train show in Springfield, MA this coming weekend.
> 
> I'm thinking that would be a good place to look for parts or at least find someone who can get them. It looks like the folks from PortLines will be there. I'll start with them.
> 
> Those part numbers for the springs will be a great help. Just looking up the word springs lists a lot of different #s.


I checked with PortLines web site and they do not have any of the parts I listed. Maybe bt talking to them in person you'll get better results. In the meantime, I'll look locally for you.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Hi Pompetti --

This is the first I've read your postings -- sorry for the delay. Welcome to the S-Scale Forum. Here you will find a lot of help from us 'Flyer Enthusiasts'.

I see you have some nice pieces from the photos you posted. The Baldwin is one I just acquired for my collection a short time ago. Unfortunately for you though, I did not have to perform any work on it yet, so I have nothing I can share at this time. However, here is a website that features exploded views of many of the Flyer engines as well as some rolling stock and action accessories and the Baldwin too -- you'll want to bookmark this page for the future as you will be here often....

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual

I see you plan to head to the upcoming Train Show in your neck of the woods and that Port Lines Hobby will be there. Doug Peck (owner) is a great source of information for Flyers and parts. Take your questions and parts list along with you, no doubt he will be able to answer them and provide much of what you need. Consider obtaining some spare parts too to keep those Flyers running over the years. Doug will also answer email questions when his store is open -- check his calendar page (it appears when you go the main website) to see open/closed dates/times.

Here is a thread I posted about creating a 4' X 8' layout for Christmas this year. I had difficulty coming up with a decent track plan due to space constrictions. When these guys suggest a 5' X 9' layout, they have good reason to do so. I stayed with the 4' X 8' only because of time constraints, but would have much rather had the larger size. Here is a link to the thread.....

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15214

You mentioned the desire to obtain more remote switches. I have been able to talk some follks down to as low as $17 for a pair, including the controller. In many cases the switches are well rusted and dirty. So expect to clean and service these. But they can be found in fairly decent shape for about $25 a pair -- don't expect to get them in an original box for that price though.

I also posted a thread when I repaired my #342AC 0-8-0 switcher -- same as you have. It might help you when the time arrives to service it....

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=10380

The wiring harness can be obtained in a variety of places -- some are cut to length and others offer it in bulk Lengths, you cut to the length you need. It is usually 24 ga but must be super-flex wire so that it flexes easily as the train traverses the rails. So be sure to get the right stuff when you're ready.

If nothing else, there is some informative reading in here just by clicking each thread and following along. You never know what you'll learn. I have been a member here for just over a year and it seems I still learn new things every time I come here. You'll find friends here who will help you and care about the hobby as well as the proper care of your items.

Anything you need, have a question, or just are unsure about something, don't hesitate to post it here. No one will criticize for redundant postings -- we all try to help one another.

Best of luck with your new found items and keep us in the loop.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

flyernut -- I just checked on Port Lines also. There is a listing for both the brushes and the brush holders. He will have to solder them together but they appear to be available.

I once tried soldering the brushes to the holders for a 472 Alco diesel. It's not the easiest thing to do, but it is possible. Getting them already soldered would be best unfortunately Port Lines doesn't offer them that way.


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## tjcruiser

Pomp,

I'm down in Newport.

"Waaaay" across the state! (Over da bridges, too!)

TJ


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## Big Ed

Well my job is done here, I woke up the S Men.
I was surprised that the question sat there as long as they did.

You can use sandpaper on S ? I didn't know that.
Sure you S guys can be Supermen if you want.

I like that Manoil car, they ceased operations in 1959, so that car is earlier them 59. I think they made some special for American Flyer flat bed loads. They do have different ones isn't there a number stamped by the name? They were available from flyer with the flatbed. I like old metal cars like that.:thumbsup:

Your in good hands now, I will still try to help when I can, and like I said go with the most room you can afford for the layout from the get go as it always seems like eventually you will want to go bigger anyway.
Even if you don't use all of the space in the beginning you can then plan on adding to it later. If you got the room the base of the pool table should hold 2 sheets of 4x8 sideways? Maybe?

Hey Supermen which one is the bankers set?


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## Big Ed

That is an American Flyer #715 Operating flat car?
I guess the ramp works? Cool.:thumbsup:


This one is on e bay being listed as made between 1946 to 1954.


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## flyernut

big ed said:


> Well my job is done here, I woke up the S Men.
> I was surprised that the question sat there as long as they did.
> 
> You can use sandpaper on S ? I didn't know that.
> Sure you S guys can be Supermen if you want.
> 
> I like that Manoil car, they ceased operations in 1959, so that car is earlier them 59. I think they made some special for American Flyer flat bed loads. They do have different ones isn't there a number stamped by the name? They were available from flyer with the flatbed. I like old metal cars like that.:thumbsup:
> 
> Your in good hands now, I will still try to help when I can, and like I said go with the most room you can afford for the layout from the get go as it always seems like eventually you will want to go bigger anyway.
> Even if you don't use all of the space in the beginning you can then plan on adding to it later. If you got the room the base of the pool table should hold 2 sheets of 4x8 sideways? Maybe?
> 
> Hey Supermen which one is the bankers set?


The Bankers set is the New Haven diesel, in the set box, with the passenger cars.. Very pretty paint scheme..


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## Big Ed

OK, my trained eye picked that out, as noted in my first post back to him.:thumbsup:

His set looks new too.
I think I have seen that set come up before on this site or maybe another, I can't remember where.

Thank you,........ Superman.


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## flyernut

big ed said:


> OK, my trained eye picked that out, as noted in my first post back to him.:thumbsup:
> 
> His set looks new too.
> I think I have seen that set come up before on this site or maybe another, I can't remember where.
> 
> Thanks you,........ Superman.


You're welcome, Robin... Oops, wrong superhero...Way to go, Jimmy.


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## flyernut

Here's my layout, don't mind the mess... On one end it's 6', enabling me to get 3 loops of flyer. plus some alien-form of 3-rail track. I believe it came from Uranus, a distant planet. It then has 2 12' sides or runs, then at the narrow or short end, it's 4', but I only have 2 loops there.Then it goes for 6' and then another 6'. It's actually a "L".
Forgot the pix.... Duh!!! That's what my afternoon vicidone does to my brain!!


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## flyernut

pictures


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## Big Ed

I was nice letting you S men refer to yourselves as Supermen.
And.......I get no respect.....no respect. 
There are more words that start with S you know, Ed was playing nice.
 





I am King Lionel Man!
I search for Lionel far & wide.











From the Kingdom of Lionel Mountain.











Superman can't penetrate Lionel mountain as it is made out of krypton.

Your lucky I have not started collecting Flyers, you might not be able to get anymore of the good stuff.


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## flyernut

big ed said:


> I was nice letting you S men refer to yourselves as Supermen.
> And.......I get no respect.....no respect.
> There are more words that start with S you know, Ed was playing nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am King Lionel Man!
> I search for Lionel far & wide.
> 
> 
> View attachment 24342
> 
> 
> 
> From the Kingdom of Lionel Mountain.
> 
> 
> View attachment 24343
> 
> 
> 
> Superman can't penetrate Lionel mountain as it is made out of krypton.
> 
> Your lucky I have not started collecting Flyers, you might not be able to get anymore of the good stuff.


Thay there, I just ADORE that loin cloth....It's nice to have fun, isn't it!!!!


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## tjcruiser

Big Ed's loin cloth ... 

knyuck knyuck knyuck ... :laugh:


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## pompetti

flyernut said:


> Here's my layout, don't mind the mess... On one end it's 6', enabling me to get 3 loops of flyer. plus some alien-form of 3-rail track. I believe it came from Uranus, a distant planet. It then has 2 12' sides or runs, then at the narrow or short end, it's 4', but I only have 2 loops there.Then it goes for 6' and then another 6'. It's actually a "L".
> Forgot the pix.... Duh!!! That's what my afternoon vicidone does to my brain!!


I like all the plasticville buildings. Are the pieces permanently glued together?

I don't have the space for as big a layout as you. What do you use for the base and is that green latex paint ?


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## pompetti

So in trying to figure out what makes a motor tick and which parts I need to replace I disassembled the motor.

Screw, Spring Holder and Brush Mount

Brush and Bearing Cap

Commutator and Stator?

Using this diagram: Baldwin Exploded View

This Picture has all the corresponding Part Numbers: Part Numbers

Picture 1: The Screw (4) and Spring holder (5) look like they can be degreased but otherwise in OK shape. What would be best to get the gunk off?

The Brush mount (7) is broken. The ends should be closed. Otherwise the Brush Holders won't stay in place. I'm missing both Springs (6) and one Brush Holder and attached Brush (8).

Picture 2: The Brush and Bearing Cap (12) is damaged. There's no threading on the inside because of the missing chunk. Either that or the wrong screw is being used. The Screw and Spring Holder came right up without needing to be unscrewed.

Picture 3: This is called The field assembly (15). Now I'm guessing the part on the left is the Stator? The wound wire shouldn't be black on the one side? It should be all copper? What would I use to clean that?

The other part is the Commutator? It's got a lot of grease on the part the brushes touch. I'm guessing that should be cleaned as well. The part with the grooves has some rust. What can I do to clean that up?

The frame has some excess grease as well. Will the same de-greasing agent work on that as well?

Thanks in advance. Feel free to correct any terminology that I've gotten wrong.


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## flyernut

I use just plain alcohol to degrease parts.
That black copper wire, to me, signifies there's been some over-heating, and could mean damage has occurred. One thing you have to remember, the Baldwin motors are not that great.
On the one picture, you have the field coil, that's the part with the black burned wire, and the part on the right is the armature. Use some green or red scotch-brite pad to shine up the armature.


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## flyernut

pompetti said:


> I like all the plasticville buildings. Are the pieces permanently glued together?
> 
> I don't have the space for as big a layout as you. What do you use for the base and is that green latex paint ?


None of my buildings are glued. In fact, about 1/2 of them we had since new. Dad would set them up under the tree back in the 50's. The base of the layout is all 1/2 inch plywood on2x4 framing and legs. I used green latex paint on the top. I had the fake green grass paper you buy in rolls but that stuff is useless, in my opinion.


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## pompetti

flyernut said:


> That black copper wire, to me, signifies there's been some over-heating, and could mean damage has occurred. One thing you have to remember, the Baldwin motors are not that great.


It's burnt and not grease. Would that need to be replaced as well? As the costs add up in replacing parts, should I start thinking about not repairing it at all and use that money to buy a working engine?


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## flyernut

pompetti said:


> It's burnt and not grease. Would that need to be replaced as well? As the costs add up in replacing parts, should I start thinking about not repairing it at all and use that money to buy a working engine?


That's a tough call buddy.. IF, you can find the parts CHEAP, I would replace them. The diesel stuff seems to be harder to find than the steamer stuff. It looks to me that you might need an entire engine assembly, coil, armature, brushes, etc. Here's what I would do... Go to your train show where you say PortLines is going to be there. Talk to them about the availablity of replacement parts.If they say they have everything, reasonably, I would fix what you have. If not, I would start shopping around for a new engine.. Keep in mind, the next one you find might be a clunker too!! The AF Baldwins are a hit and miss.Maybe buy a modern day version and replace the shell??? If you see a 355 at the show, INSIST on watching it run. Then and only then would I make up my mind about buying it.Years ago I bought a 355 for $70 bucks at a show. The seller said it was just serviced and runs great.I took his word for it. When I got home I placed it on the track and it went out 2 feet and burned up...If and when I buy an engine or anything electrical at a train show, I buy under the assumption that it does not work, and will need repairs.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Whatever you decide to do, just don't discard what you have. Spare parts are like gold -- even used ones. They don't make these things anymore and repro parts are harder and harder to find. Save everything and throw nothing!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here's another source for Flyer parts -- you mgiht wish to contact him as his website seems to be under construction. I have dealt with him before and he seems reputable.

http://www.ssstrains.com/default.htm


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## pompetti

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Here's another source for Flyer parts -- you mgiht wish to contact him as his website seems to be under construction. I have dealt with him before and he seems reputable.
> 
> http://www.ssstrains.com/default.htm


Everything will be saved. I will have to email him. When I google parts like the Brush and Bearing Cap that site is the only one that comes up.


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## flyernut

Try "The Train Tender" in Bloomfield NY. He might have parts.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Here's another source for Flyer parts -- you mgiht wish to contact him as his website seems to be under construction. I have dealt with him before and he seems reputable.
> 
> http://www.ssstrains.com/default.htm


I have bought off him before.. Good stuff..


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## pompetti

I came back with from the Amherst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show with a bag of parts for my 355 Diesel and the 342AC steamer.

Instead of trying to fix the Baldwin motor, I bought a can motor from Portlines and am in the process of installing it. One of the things I want to do is get the wheels and gears properly cleaned and lubricated. I disassembled both trucks and want to know the best way to attack them.

1.) The Worm Gear.

There's an old sticky residue on the Worm Drive, the Bearing and the washer. What can be used to clean them? what parts get re-lubricated? And what lubricant? 

2). The Truck Chassis What's best to get all the crud out? Just the part the axles sit in needs to be regreased? I see mention of using auto motive axle grease. A liberal coating or just a small dab?

3.) Pull-mor Wheels, Axle and Gear They need a good cleaning. What do I use on the metallic wheels? How about the rubber wheels? The axles get some axle grease. What about the gear?

4.) The Wheels and Axles I took a green scotchbrite pad to the surface of the wheels. One wheel is insulated, the other isn't. I wasn't smart enough to note which one went where in relation to the rubber/metal of the other truck. Which way should the non-drive wheels be placed? 

Thanks!


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## flyernut

pompetti said:


> I came back with from the Amherst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show with a bag of parts for my 355 Diesel and the 342AC steamer.
> 
> Instead of trying to fix the Baldwin motor, I bought a can motor from Portlines and am in the process of installing it. One of the things I want to do is get the wheels and gears properly cleaned and lubricated. I disassembled both trucks and want to know the best way to attack them.
> 
> 1.) The Worm Gear.
> 
> There's an old sticky residue on the Worm Drive, the Bearing and the washer. What can be used to clean them? what parts get re-lubricated? And what lubricant?
> 
> 2). The Truck Chassis What's best to get all the crud out? Just the part the axles sit in needs to be regreased? I see mention of using auto motive axle grease. A liberal coating or just a small dab?
> 
> 3.) Pull-mor Wheels, Axle and Gear They need a good cleaning. What do I use on the metallic wheels? How about the rubber wheels? The axles get some axle grease. What about the gear?
> 
> 4.) The Wheels and Axles I took a green scotchbrite pad to the surface of the wheels. One wheel is insulated, the other isn't. I wasn't smart enough to note which one went where in relation to the rubber/metal of the other truck. Which way should the non-drive wheels be placed?
> 
> Thanks!


On the gears I use vaseline.I have a small spray bottle with alcohol I use to degrease parts, and a toothbrush or pick. I have a set of 4 picks that I use to get into the smallest cavity. These are dental picks. I also use the picks on firearms.I use a very light oil in a pin oiler to get into tight spaces. VERY LIBERAL with the oil. Oil is a dirt magnet, and the drier you run the trains, the less crude you'll pick up.On metallic wheels I use the scotch-brite pads.On the rubber wheels, I use alcohol.It doesn't matter where the wheels go in the truck, but you must remember, the wheels must be in the opposite side of the other truck. You pick up your current from each rail, so the wheel sets have to be in opposite side in each truck.For instance, if both metal wheels are on the left side of the front truck, the metal wheels must be in the right side of the rear truck.


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## pompetti

flyernut said:


> On the gears I use vaseline.I have a small spray bottle with alcohol I use to degrease parts, and a toothbrush or pick. I have a set of 4 picks that I use to get into the smallest cavity. These are dental picks. I also use the picks on firearms.I use a very light oil in a pin oiler to get into tight spaces. VERY LIBERAL with the oil. Oil is a dirt magnet, and the drier you run the trains, the less crude you'll pick up.On metallic wheels I use the scotch-brite pads.


I'm a bit confused, you say to be liberal with the oil but to try to run the trains as dry as I can. 

Where am I using the oil? On the axles or somewhere else? Do I use the liberal amount to clean, then clean with alcohol, and then re-apply a light coat?

What brand/model of oil do you use?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I think he means very stingy with the oil. Use a a miniscule drop at any lubrication point. Too much tends to get distributed into areas where you don't want it to go and it picks up dirt and dust that gums it up.

For cleaning he uses alcohol. I use contact cleaner in a spray can. Be sure to get a brand that's safe for plastics. Believe Radio Shack carries one. This can be sprayed liberally in the areas to be cleaned. It helps to dissolve old grease, oil and dirt. The nice thing about this is the excess just evaporates.

As I never worked on a Baldwin yet, I can't be sure to recommend the lubricating points. Mainly where two or more moving objects join to gether. Just keep the lube away from electrical components. Very light drop of oil on axle pivots, the armature bearings, etc.


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## flyernut

Well, when you post,(me) at 3:42 in the morning, your head is up somewhere unpleasant,lol!!!!!! I meant to say, "very sparingly".Just a tiny drop on the axles where they go into the trucks. Don, (nuttin but flyer), has said it all correctly, or at least how I do it... Thanks Don!!


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## flyernut

Hey Don, check out the timing of our posts!!! I just finished a batch of chili for the wife, and came in to check the emails.. Got to let it simmer, ya know??


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## ChopperCharles

One thing to remember about old used track, is to spend EXTRA time and attention to the pins. They need to be extra extra clean, especially since there's no way to clean the inside of the track. I use a drill with a scotchbrite disc mounted to clean them up, top bottom and sides. Shoot some contact cleaner inside the track end as well, and use a little dielectric grease when you put the track together, to make sure things don't corrode further. (and make sure to wipe that grease off the track with a solvent).

Don't use WD-40, it's a water displacer, and is a very poor excuse for a penetrating oil (it is not in ANY way a lubricant, fyi). PB Blaster is the bees knees, that stuff is awesome. For actual lubricant though, use a heavy weight motor oil instead. However, for gears I still use modern synthetic axle grease.

Charles.


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## flyernut

ChopperCharles said:


> One thing to remember about old used track, is to spend EXTRA time and attention to the pins. They need to be extra extra clean, especially since there's no way to clean the inside of the track. I use a drill with a scotchbrite disc mounted to clean them up, top bottom and sides. Shoot some contact cleaner inside the track end as well, and use a little dielectric grease when you put the track together, to make sure things don't corrode further. (and make sure to wipe that grease off the track with a solvent).
> 
> Don't use WD-40, it's a water displacer, and is a very poor excuse for a penetrating oil (it is not in ANY way a lubricant, fyi). PB Blaster is the bees knees, that stuff is awesome. For actual lubricant though, use a heavy weight motor oil instead. However, for gears I still use modern synthetic axle grease.
> 
> Charles.


PB Blaster is all I use, except for the chute on my snowblower. That gets WD40, it's cheaper,lol. Also, don't forget to bend the pins a little,pointing to the outside, for better contact, as per the flyer manual.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Oh Yeah -- chili is best when it is heated over and over again.....along with some tall, cold drafts. I like to throw some shredded American cheese on top, let it melt slightly -- yum !! Great for these cold winter days.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Hey pompetti -- you make it to that show and see Doug Peck? Get any satisfaction, tips, parts?


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## pompetti

I did go to the show. I got parts for my 342AC from Todd Metcalf at Trains & More. I bought the can motor from Doug for my 355 Baldwin, I'm hoping to have it running by this weekend. He also sold me a door for my Semaphore Sam that isn't the right part. I'm hoping he accepts returns even though I don't have a receipt.

I also bought a bunch of 720A switches from various people. I now have 6 complete pairs. Doug mentioned that if I was going to be buying track to forget original track and use the Lionel FasTrack. The only make straight, curved and terminal track at the moment. No switches. Do any of you use FasTrack for your S trains?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I struggled with that same issue when I decided to go delving into my Flyers. After much discussion within my head, I finally settled on using the original track. It might not be as good a quality or reliability as the newer track of today, but others have had good luck with it. And I had a ton of it from before and have since acquired a ton more. So it isn't likely I'll change to the newer items. I do know many folks have great results with the new stuff. If you have very little of the original, it might be smart to move to some other more reliable product. But I was stuck with a large inventry and decided to stick with it. To sell it, I'd be lucky to get 50 cents each vs. the $3, $4, or $5 per piece of the newer items. The wife would kill me if I suddenly dumped thousands $$ on new track for the future layout I am planning. If that happened, somebody else would get my Flyers.


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## flyernut

I use original flyer track also, with the rubber roadbed. That's what I remembered as a child. However, if you don't want to use original, may I suggest GarGraves track?? I used it exclusively until I came about a large amount of original flyer. GarGraves Track is wonderful stuff, and I used the 3 foot flex-track. My trains loved it!! Check out their website.


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## Strummer

I seriously considered Gargraves; it's been around a long time,seems durable, and is reasonably priced.
I ended up going with Americam Models track, as I wanted a more "scale-like" appearance. An added advantage is that the rail is code 148, so it allows both scale wheels and hi-rail; I can pull totally scale cars behind Flyer engines...kind of cool.

Mark in Oregon


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## ChopperCharles

Oooh, interesting. I had no idea American Models track allowed both flanges. I'll keep that in mind for my next layout. I'm so planning on converting some On30 to S in the near future, and if I can do it without completely replacing the drivers (and instead just replacing the axles), that'd be even more awesome.

Charles.


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