# Home made pick-up material



## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd like to make my own wipers as the price of 1 pair along with shipping makes my head spin. It's just a little piece of brass or something that you can cut with regular scissors. So what is the best material and can I find it in my local hardware store?


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

look for what is called shim material. it is brass and it comes in different sizes.

it is mostly used in a machine shop to put between the jaws of the chuck and the piece of metal so it does not mark up the metal.

i am not sure if HD/Lows carries it. a real good old fashion hard wear store may.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks wingnut. I'll take a look.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Spent a little time looking at the trucks from the old Mantua 2-8-2 that I want to put pick-ups on and I don't really see how to isolate the axle from the trucks. I guess I'm stuck with the truck and chassis wheel pick-up. The only thing I don't like about it is the big spark I get if I don't put it on the track very carefully. This sparking has somehow ruined my dcc system and I'm in the process of fixing that now.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

One thing about brass shim material, it won't have the same tensile characteristics as the material typically used for pickups. It may work, but I'm guessing it'll deform much easier.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

John thanks for your input but as I stated above, I don't think I'll be able to isolate the trucks and axles anyway. At least not without a lot of work. Seems I'd have to drill the posts to get the wheel out and then change the wheel sets. It's just not worth it. The train runs fine the way it is.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Probably a wise move.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I had a thin sheet of brass from the hobby shop that I cut strips off
to use for wipers on my Passenger coaches...it is light enough that
it doesn't apply too much friction and springy enough to maintain
contact with the back of the wheels.

Hutch are you talking about Tender trucks or leading/trailing
trucks on the loco? It would seem fairly easy to install wipers
on the tender trucks. The leading and trailing wheels are
insulated on one side or you would have a permanent short.
Can those insulated wheels be 'wiped'?

Don


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

On this one, the only thing isolating them is the plastic wheel on the other side. The axle isn't isolated from the brass wheel and the ends of the axle make contact on both ends to the truck. 


```
Hutch are you talking about Tender trucks or leading/trailing
trucks on the loco? It would seem fairly easy to install wipers
on the tender trucks. The leading and trailing wheels are
insulated on one side or you would have a permanent short.
Can those insulated wheels be 'wiped'?
```


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> One thing about brass shim material, it won't have the same tensile characteristics as the material typically used for pickups. It may work, but I'm guessing it'll deform much easier.


john is right. the tensile is one that will not hold up.

but donR has a good place, the LHS would have a better brass.
if you do try the switch.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Maybe I'll look at buying new truck made of plastic with the wheels and wipers all set.


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## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

I use a #2 ring terminal and a piece of copper house wire. A 2-56 screw through the center of the truck and another ring terminal inside the car.

K


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

House wire Well, if it works for you I'll have to try it sometime. Just not on this project.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

House wire? That's almost as big as the locomotive!


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

You can also use the bronze flat "spring" from the non whiskered coupler boxes in the kadee kits.


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## ktcards (Sep 22, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> House wire? That's almost as big as the locomotive!


A single strand of #14 or #16 wire inserted into the open end, crimped, and soldered.









K


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I can't see that being any kind of a wiper, that wire has almost no "spring" qualities.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Hutch
Have you tried Tomar Industries? They used to make Phosphor Bronze HO size pickup shoes.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

I appreciate all the response but as I said earlier in the thread, I can't convert these. Here are the trucks.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Hutch said:


> I appreciate all the response but as I said earlier in the thread, I can't convert these. Here are the trucks.


Oh, yes you can....

http://bobsmodelworks.com/2012/01/mantua-ho-scale-4-6-4-heavy-pacific-circa-1980/

I use simple solder terminals, some light wire salvaged from a kid's toy and some plain sheet copper I have, cut to shape with scissors...works great.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

If you look close you'l see the axles can't be isolated. I gave a top and bottom view that shows this. The brass wheel is electrically connected to the axle. The only isolation is the plastic wheels on the other side. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've been known to be.


shaygetz said:


> Oh, yes you can....
> 
> http://bobsmodelworks.com/2012/01/mantua-ho-scale-4-6-4-heavy-pacific-circa-1980/
> 
> I use simple solder terminals, some light wire salvaged from a kid's toy and some plain sheet copper I have, cut to shape with scissors...works great.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

How can that run on the layout if both sides are shorted together? Am I missing something?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

True, but all you're doing is providing a more direct source of electricty with the wires and wipers. The drawbar is made of fiber, so the current doesn't cross with the loco. The trucks are grounded to the tender frame but, as long as they are properly oriented, there will be no issues. The wheels will continue to run power to the truck frames but that's it...if anything, the combination of wipers and axle bearings provides extra power pickup points--but only to the same terminals that are wired into the engine. Hope that helps...


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

They're not shorted together on the track. There's plastic wheel on the other side and that's the only isolation.


gunrunnerjohn said:


> How can that run on the layout if both sides are shorted together? Am I missing something?


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Would it need extra power points? Would there be noticeable improvement? I haven't had chance to run it yet so I don't really know how well it runs on tracks. I do know that after cleaning the commutator the motor spins great so I'm really looking forward to testing it on the track.



shaygetz said:


> True, but all you're doing is providing a more direct source of electricty with the wires and wipers. The drawbar is made of fiber, so the current doesn't cross with the loco. The trucks are grounded to the tender frame but, as long as they are properly oriented, there will be no issues. The wheels will continue to run power to the truck frames but that's it...if anything, the combination of wipers and axle bearings provides extra power pickup points--but only to the same terminals that are wired into the engine. Hope that helps...


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Then I don't see the problem. As Shay says, put the wipers on the wheels and just wire them with a tether to the locomotive. I'm assuming since this is a 2-8-2 that those are the tender trucks, right?


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

The problem is, I wanted to isolate the trucks so they don't short the track while I'm putting the train on the tracks. Not that it matters, the system should shut off anyway until the short is cleared. I just thought I could improve it a little.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

There shouldn't be a shorting issue when you put it on the tracks unless the tender trucks are backwards or crossed. Of course, if you hit the opposite rail with the truck frame while putting it on the track, that will do it too, but only if there's some juice to the rails.

The sparking issue may not be related to shorting out but rather the natural arcing that is common to Mantuas, the combination of brass, steel and zamac makes for high resistance, arcing--the truck frames get downright toasty under normal operating conditions. Adding these wipers goes a long way towards overcoming that. Here is a similar setup I do on their smaller steam...it requires no extra wire or solder...

http://bobsmodelworks.com/2011/08/mantua-ho-scale-cmps-rr-2-6-2-prairie-2/


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Good point. I'll add them.
Thanks shaygetz


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I don't have any steam so I'm totally dumb on the
power pickups used.

A matter of curiosity:

Hutch has said the tender trucks are metal. I see the brass
wheels and metal axle also the plastic wheels on the other rail.

Are the metal wheels of both trucks on the SAME RAIL?
If so the entire tender is one side of the circuit. (Otherwise
there would be a short circuit in the tender body.)

That would mean the other side of the circuit would be picked up
through the locomotive wheels. An insulated tender/loco coupling
prevents a short...and a wire from the tender completes the circuit
to the loco.

Is that the way this loco gets it's power?

Don


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Exactly.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm considering making this mod but after following your link I came across this comment "Knowing modelers will immediately see the impending screw-up–since fixed–…unknowing modelers get to find out on their own…" What's the scoop?



shaygetz said:


> Oh, yes you can....
> 
> http://bobsmodelworks.com/2012/01/mantua-ho-scale-4-6-4-heavy-pacific-circa-1980/
> 
> I use simple solder terminals, some light wire salvaged from a kid's toy and some plain sheet copper I have, cut to shape with scissors...works great.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Hutch said:


> "Knowing modelers will immediately see the impending screw-up–since fixed–…unknowing modelers get to find out on their own…" What's the scoop?


Mantua tenders pick up from the left side of the tender, I accidentally transposed the wheels to pickup from the right side---the loco wasn't going anywhere if I didn't correct that... The clue was the hinge point on the tender...for it to be proper and to view it from that side, the hinge point would have to be on the other side of the photo.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

DonR said:


> Are the metal wheels of both trucks on the SAME RAIL?
> 
> Is that the way this loco gets it's power?
> 
> Don


Yes...a very basic way to wire them in the early daze of modeling, not seen much now with most modern models.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

I started to make them like you did and I found something else wrong. They _show_ when they're mounted on the bottom so I tried mounting them on the top side. That didn't go so well. I think I'll just let them show.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Hutch said:


> I started to make them like you did and I found something else wrong. They _show_ when they're mounted on the bottom so I tried mounting them on the top side. That didn't go so well. I think I'll just let them show.


I "plan" on coloring mine with a black magic marker...I say plan because I need to find one of those little wooden round tuits that seem to get things finished on my workbench. Once I get something working, final appearances can takes years to wrap up...


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Your preaching to the choir:laugh:
Yeah that's what I meant.


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