# Mixing road names in the 1950's



## isoc (Jan 23, 2017)

I am modeling a fictional PRR branch line set it the 1950's. 

I have done a pretty good job of finding PRR locomotives, but one I really wanted was no longer in stock anywhere, a PRR 2-8-0 by BLI.

So I got a B & O. I know it's my railroad and I can do what I want, but I am curious as to how often if ever in the 1950's railroads leased locomotives to each other or would have different road names sitting around. 

Today, I can see a NS train with an NS, BNSF and SP all on the same train. 

I could paint over the B&O name (I have the PRR decal even.) and renumber it, but I am leaning towards just keeping the B&O to mix in with a PRR 2-6-0, a Bachmann 2-8-0, and PRR S4, GP7 and GP9.

Any thoughts out there?

- Ted


----------



## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

isoc said:


> So I got a B & O. I know it's my railroad and I can do what I want, but I am curious as to how often if ever in the 1950's railroads leased locomotives to each other or would have different road names sitting around.
> 
> - Ted


Ted, leasing motive power was an extremely common practice then, as well as now. It happened all the time. That B&O would like right at home there.


----------



## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

*PRR/B&O*

wouldn't be surprised they didn't even have some shared trackage.:dunno:


----------



## isoc (Jan 23, 2017)

flyboy2610 said:


> Ted, leasing motive power was an extremely common practice then, as well as now. It happened all the time. That B&O would like right at home there.


Thanks for the feedback. I just didn't spend that much time in the 50's watching prototype trains. One of the Model Railroader magazine articles I read 20+ years ago was about the "undec" railroad, showing prototype equipment with no markings.

- Ted


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

isoc said:


> Today, I can see a NS train with an NS, BNSF and SP all on the same train.


I'm kind of surprised that anything SP livery is still hanging around.

But that said, railroads can and do share power. If all your "home road" power is fully utilized (or shopped), it would not be unusual to see leased foreign power. But it wouldn't be sitting around. Leasing costs money, sk the leased power gets used. Hard. You could argue that it's better to wear out a potential competitor's equipment than your own.


----------



## PhillipL (May 5, 2012)

I am not sure when but at one point I read somewhere PRR owned a majority of B&O stock. That being the case, I would say a B&O locomotive would fit right in on your branch line. Remember, it is your layout, do what you want. I have many railroads that have trackage rights on my line!


----------



## isoc (Jan 23, 2017)

PhillipL said:


> I am not sure when but at one point I read somewhere PRR owned a majority of B&O stock. That being the case, I would say a B&O locomotive would fit right in on your branch line. Remember, it is your layout, do what you want. I have many railroads that have trackage rights on my line!


I can imagine that PRR and B&O both have a financial interest in my branch line, I guess.

- Ted


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

isoc said:


> I can imagine that PRR and B&O both have a financial interest in my branch line, I guess.
> 
> - Ted


You can imagine anything you want to. It's your layout.

But it's not far fetched at all. On my own layout, I don't insist that things be prototypically / historically accurate, but I do want them to be believable.


----------



## dinwitty (Oct 29, 2015)

In the 50's there was not very much crossing over of locomotives like you can today like seeing UP engines running on CSX etc, you don't break the train, but you do recrew the train to the local railroad. (they know the route) 
For steam engines each railroad had their own specifics and needs for their railroad and the engines were designed for it. So crossing engines over to another line were not always perfectly successful. If you wanted the Pennsy 2-8-0 but got the B&O, BLI was practically using the same die for both engines, go to their site and compare engines, you could get away just relettering it.
But the Pennsy were well known for their Belpaire fireboxes with the squared up firebox end. Model Die Casting had a 2-8-0 like the pennsy I think bowser had a kit also, something to look up.
The only alternative is to hit up older brass but older brass prices match up often to today's plastic prices so buying one might practical.

Some rail lines prallelled or closely paralleled so both lines if they had some traffic problem like a derailment or whatever issue, they would get rights on the other line to move their train, the practice was really pretty common, but otherwise they would stay on their own rails.


----------



## 1905dave (Sep 18, 2016)

Leasing power happened but in the steam era it was not as common as it is today and the run thru operations were not as common as today.

Leasing power was very localized and limited. The PRR used RDG T-1's for a year or so on one division. Between 2 terminals on one subdivision, you would see the RDG engines. Anyplace else on the PRR, nope. Various roads leased power in WW2 when they couldn't get their own power.

Probably the two most common things that would result in a B&O engine on "PRR" trackage is not a lease, but a "joint facility". That is a piece of trackage or territory that is jointly owned by both railroads. Very common in terminals, less common on road territories. On a joint facility the railroads operate as one railroad but contribute power based on ownership or traffic. For example the PRSL, Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines, operated as one railroad with a mix of engines supplied by both the PRR and RDG.

The other option is a trackage rights arrangement, that is a subdivision that is owned by one railroad but allows another railroad to operate over it. For example the WM and RDG had trackage rights over each other between Cumberland and Harrisburg. The difference is that the trains are not "shared". The RDG's engines operated on the RDG trains and the WM engines operated on the WM trains. But both railroad's trains operated over the territory.

In modern times railroads have run through agreements with each other. Extremely common nowadays, not as common in the back in the steam era. It was never very common in the steam era. If you see another railroad's engines in a train today, the greatest probability is its not leased, its run thru power or paying back horsepower hours for run through power. Every railroad has literally dozens to hundreds of other railroad's engines on their railroad.

Back to the original question. Two most common ways to use a B&O steamer on a "PRR" line. Make it a joint facility, a railroad jointly owned by the B&O and the PRR that uses engines from both railroads and the territory he is modeling is assigned a B&O engine. Or its a territory that is a jointly owned territory that is operated on an alternating basis, and at the time its being modeled its being operated by the B&O.


----------



## isoc (Jan 23, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestions and information! - Ted


----------



## isoc (Jan 23, 2017)

"Make it a joint facility, a railroad jointly owned by the B&O and the PRR that uses engines from both railroads and the territory he is modeling is assigned a B&O engine."

That is kind of what I'm thinking. The main facility is actually off my layout, at the "junction" represented by a passing siding. That's where engine maintenance, coaling, fueling and sand facilities are located, because I don't have room on my layout. I did put a water tank near my small yard, along with a caboose track and a place for up to 4 locomotives to "park" in between local runs and yard switching. I am having a bit of a challenge finding B&O rolling stock or a caboose OK for 1945-58, the approximate time I'm modeling. I can find a caboose for what appears to be the 60's and 70's, just not the 40's and 50's. I did find an Athearn B&O caboose, but it's painted blue and the little information I can find is that in the 40's and 50's it would be red. But that could be wrong.

My best choice is not to obsess about this!

- Ted


----------



## Maddog (Jan 14, 2016)

Instead of a PRR branchline how about a shortline that leases PRR and B&O motive power? For a caboose see if you can find something you like from the early 1900s and repaint it and letter it for your shortline. Some shortlines owned very little equipment other than maybe some MOW. A fictitious shortline would allow you to use what you like even if it is heavily influenced by the PRR and B&O.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It happens up here all the time.....and this is not only two different companies, but also two different countries....


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Again, not a bad topic, but an old discussion. And we've had the same one in a recent thread (within the last two weeks).

Use the "Recommended Reading" list with care. Read away, but make sure they're active threads before you post.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

They’re all active posts.....if they weren’t still active, you wouldn’t be able to post.....just say’in.....

these are just simply old posts.....no harm done....


----------



## Maddog (Jan 14, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Again, not a bad topic, but an old discussion. And we've had the same one in a recent thread (within the last two weeks).
> 
> Use the "Recommended Reading" list with care. Read away, but make sure they're active threads before you post.



What is considered too old to reply to? Anything over 30 days, 3 months, 6 months, a year?

As I look at the "Recommended Reading" list I see topics that haven't been active in years. Maybe some changes are in order?


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Maddog said:


> What is considered too old to reply to? Anything over 30 days, 3 months, 6 months, a year?
> 
> As I look at the "Recommended Reading" list I see topics that haven't been active in years. Maybe some changes are in order?


I'm hardly the definitive answer on the subject, but my filters are set up not to show me anything older than 1 month. I also ignore the recommended reading in favor of the "New Posts" list.

A lot depends on whether it is a generic discussion or a more specific question. A lot of members are active for a few months and then lose interest. Not much point in replying to someone who hasn't been here in years.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

PhillipL said:


> I am not sure when but at one point I read somewhere PRR owned a majority of B&O stock. That being the case, I would say a B&O locomotive would fit right in on your branch line. Remember, it is your layout, do what you want. I have many railroads that have trackage rights on my line!


Mine too, but the Swiss have to operate on the right instead of the left!


----------



## Maddog (Jan 14, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> I'm hardly the definitive answer on the subject, but my filters are set up not to show me anything older than 1 month. I also ignore the recommended reading in favor of the "New Posts" list.
> 
> A lot depends on whether it is a generic discussion or a more specific question. A lot of members are active for a few months and then lose interest. Not much point in replying to someone who hasn't been here in years.



How do you set up filters?


----------



## Maddog (Jan 14, 2016)

I wouldn't get too hung up on this whole thing. Over the years I've learned that there is a prototype for everything.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't see the point in carping about old posts. Sure, they're old. If they don't interest you, just move on. After all, don't many of us yearn for the "good ol' days"?


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Right you are John.....some people can’t let the small stuff go.....


----------



## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

What does it matter how old or new a subject is? If it's an old post or not, and the subject is about something I want to know about, I'll read it to gain information. Kind of like an encyclopedia. Of course you may not be able to ask any questions if the post is too old and the poster is no longer available but at least you might gain some useful knowledge. If I want to ask any questions not addressed in older posts, I might start a new thread to get the information I need and then ask my questions. No biggie to me.


----------

