# Need Help Indentifying Some Trains:



## Greengoblin782 (Jul 26, 2013)

Hey guys,

My family received a few trains about 15 years ago from a neighbor that used to live across the street from us. We have had them up in our attic and just recently came across them again. Due to recent money problems we decided to try and look up what we actually have but have been hitting some dead ends on the internet.

Here are a few scans of what we have. I tried to list everything that was listed on the train to help identify it.

Probably should mention I do not know if these trains work.

Just a few questions we have:

1. Are these trains collectible?
2. Does anyone have a general idea what these trains should sell for.

American Flyer 4637 (Looks like this is the most valuable out of the lot.)
New York City 8 HRRR 4351
Lionel New York Central Line 38
Lionel New York Central Line Pullman
Lionel Corp (Animal Cart?)


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know much about pre-war stuff, but those look pretty cool.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You can't find anything on the 4637 through an internet search?
Does it read Shasta on it?

Sure they have some value everything is collectible today.
What does the other engine say on it?

Are they all the same size or are some bigger then the others?

The 4637 is Standard gauge and fairly big, do all the others match it's size?


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## Greengoblin782 (Jul 26, 2013)

big ed said:


> You can't find anything on the 4637 through an internet search?
> Does it read Shasta on it?
> 
> Sure they have some value everything is collectible today.
> ...


I am a complete noob at model trains so please be patient with me. Hopefully I answered all your answers correct.

Does it read Shasta on it? Yes, it does say Shasta on it.

Sure they have some value everything is collectible today.
What does the other engine say on it? From what I see on the engine it says New York Central Line and then has the number 38 on it.

Are they all the same size or are some bigger then the others? See below answer.

The 4637 is Standard gauge and fairly big, do all the others match it's size No, some of the trains are smaller.

For the 4637 model what condition would you list it at? I see on eBay a rusted one missing parts sold for around $150.00 and better conditions up towards $600.00. What would be a reasonable asking price if you don't know if it works?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hard to say the value if you don't know if it has any life in it. 
And you never know what will happen on e bay.

The #38 search it on e bay there is a couple there now see watch what they bring, watch them.
Notice the one looks in great shape and is at @$69 now.
That model was made between 1913 and 1924 made in 8 colors yours being the most common and cheapest in price. Yours might also be from the teens.

The 4637 looks in fairly good shape from what I can see, it is missing a hand rail.
I am not really into Flyers so I don't know.

If you list them on e bay normally if they are worth something the bidders will bid their value. Though you might not know that till the last few seconds.

You don't have a transformer or know of anyone that does to see they it runs or has life?

The cars I don't know, how big are they, do they have any numbers on them?
They look to be prewar (early trains before WW11)
The 2 passenger cars look like Lionel's.


You could list them here if you want but you must state an asking price....you can add or best offer.
Maybe take pictures with a ruler by them so we can see their size.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

One other way to "feel" the market would be to set a "reserve" price. You could set it towards the higher end of completed auctions, then if it doesn't meet reserve price you kinda know value. That may be a fair starting point, but only bidders truly determine what they're willing to pay.

Carl


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Greengoblin782 said:


> American Flyer 4637


Here is some information on this piece. It apparently appeared in the American Flyer catalog from 1929 to 1933. Judging by the way it's highlighted, it was one of their premier items. After all, it has "32 points of superiority"!


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Greengoblin782 said:


> Lionel New York Central Line 38


This is a Lionel 38 standard gauge locomotive. As Ed said, it was cataloged from 1913-1924. I found a 2009 auction where someone paid $125 for one of these, although it was in better condition than this one. Another auction was around $65.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Greengoblin782 said:


> New York City 8 HRRR 4351


This one is kind of unusual. It is a Lionel 4351 caboose. As you can see below, apparently Lionel made it in two sizes. The site this came from lists them as standard gauge, one 11 inches long and the other 9 1/2. My guess is the smaller one is actually O gauge.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Greengoblin782 said:


> Lionel New York Central Line Pullman


Best guess is these are standard gauge Lionel 35 and 36 passenger cars. The photos below show a number being painted on the ends of the cars. Prices for a pair of these seem to be in the $75-$100 range.


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Greengoblin782 said:


> Lionel Corp (Animal Cart?)


I believe this is a standard gauge Lionel 113 cattle car. This is very similar to the 13 but it looks like the 113 has brass brake wheels on the ends while the 13 does not. Prices for both seem to be in the $20-$60 range. The 113 generally sells a bit lower than the 13.

It appears that the cattle car and caboose might belong to the same set. Here is the Lionel 318 freight set including the 113 and 4351.


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## Greengoblin782 (Jul 26, 2013)

eljefe- Thank you for posting more details about each train for me. I really appreciate it.

I uncovered a few more trains and here they are.

Lionel CM & ST P 98237


Another Lionel Pullman


Lionel Lake Shore 65784 (Has the number 112 on bottom)


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

It makes sense that you'd have a second Pullman car. Lionel typically sold passenger sets as two identical cars with an observation car at the end, especially in the Prewar days. You have a complete set that looks to be in pretty nice shape.

The freight cars also appear to fit into the set I posted above. I found references to sets with the following pieces:

38 or 318 locomotive? (I found examples hinting at both. Maybe it started with the 38 and was replaced by the 318 in later production.)
112 Lake Shore gondola 65784
113 cattle car
114 C.M. & ST. P box car 98237
116 NY NH & H RR ballast car
117 NYC & HR RR caboose 4315

You appear to have a complete set except for the 116 "ballast" car, which would probably be called a coal car or hopper car in today's terminology. Maybe it's still waiting to be discovered. It appears to have come in several colors, but here's an example:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The stuff is in really good shape, you have uncovered quite a little treasure there.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

eljefe said:


> It makes sense that you'd have a second Pullman car. Lionel typically sold passenger sets as two identical cars with an observation car at the end, especially in the Prewar days. You have a complete set that looks to be in pretty nice shape.
> 
> The freight cars also appear to fit into the set I posted above. I found references to sets with the following pieces:
> 
> ...




It also looks like they are all standard gauge?


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

Yes, it appears they are all standard gauge. I imagine they're all from the late teens to early 20s. Not bad for 90ish years old!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

eljefe said:


> Yes, it appears they are all standard gauge. I imagine they're all from the late teens to early 20s. Not bad for 90ish years old!


That is what is confusing, he said some are different sizes.


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## Greengoblin782 (Jul 26, 2013)

big ed said:


> That is what is confusing, he said some are different sizes.


From all the trains I posted should the American Flyer be the biggest one I have? All the other ones are about the same size.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Greengoblin782 said:


> From all the trains I posted should the American Flyer be the biggest one I have? All the other ones are about the same size.


In the book the numbers of the items are listed as standard gauge.

Like I said I don't know much about Flyers.
Put a ruler next to the Shasta and put the other engine along side take a picture of them both in the same picture. Measure the distance in between the wheels flange to flange of them also, that might help a little.

If the cars are the numbers I am looking at in my book, some have a good dollar sign on them. 

The Flyer members must not have seen the Shasta, I would have thought by now they would have said something. Maybe they don't venture out of their S forum?
Post the Shasta in the S forum maybe an S man will know more about it.
It looks in good shape, you didn't see the missing hand rail anywhere did you?
It would be nice to know if the old gal has any life in her.

We do have a few members here that might be interested in some of them.
But they didn't say anything either. :dunno:


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## eljefe (Jun 11, 2011)

big ed said:


> That is what is confusing, he said some are different sizes.


The term "size" may be confusing. We all have plenty of things the same gauge that may be wildly different lengths and heights. I suspect that's why Greengoblin gave the answer he did.

The Lionel pieces all look to go together. Maybe American Flyer made their items a bit longer/taller.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is why I asked for the measurement pictures.

I think they are all standard and the flyer is just bigger.


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## Greengoblin782 (Jul 26, 2013)

Just a quick update, I had a gentleman take a look at all the items I had and he gave me estimates for everything. Bad news is the American Flyer engine does not run. I currently have it listed on eBay and received a $600.00 offer on it.

With all the other items posted in this thread I will probably list them in the correct forum below in the next month or so.

Thanks for everyone who helped give me information about the trains.

Matthew.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Good luck getting a signature on delivery, it doesn't matter in my town they just drop and run regardless. 

Not a bad price for a free attic find.
Maybe you should have asked $800 or best offer. 

I see 8 watchers? One is me. 

You can tell if your drawing interest from the amount looking, I can't see that number.

Too bad you couldn't have made it run, probably just needs a good service.
Maybe a broken wire.

Then you might have been able to ask for more?


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## Greengoblin782 (Jul 26, 2013)

I was going to accept the $600.00 offer when I woke up today since the train is down at my shore house and I was heading their tomorrow anyway. I guess the buyer couldn't wait and bought it for my asking price.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is good. :smokin::thumbsup:

Next?


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