# Little HO screws that hold trucks to chassis?



## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

I have a few HO rolling stock that needs trucks and couplers.

Some of the screws that hold the trucks to the chassis seem to not tighten and some just fall right out - do I replace these screws with larger screws/rethread them or stuff the whole or something else?

The trucks are mostly Tyco so not really valuablem but there are a few misc made in Austria - what that mfg is.

As always, thanks in advance for any help.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Are they self-tapper sheet-metal type screws (more of a wood thread than a machine thread) that go right into plastic? If so, you can try replacing with the next larger diameter screw. Or prior to that, perhaps remove the screw, dab a little epoxy (like JB Weld) into the hole where the screw engages, let that cure (drill out the excess to small diameter, if needed), and then try installing the screw in that.

Lots of other options, too, I'd bet ...

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I use JB Weld to fill such screw holes, then drill a new hole of the proper size for the screw.

A little tip for redrilling the hole:

After filling with JB Weld and letting it cure, trim or file away the excess. Next, put it together and mark the center of the hole with a punch, pencil, etc. Take it back apart and using a VERY SMALL drill ( I use a size 80 drill ) in a hand arbor, drill the center of the hole as a pilot. Then you can use the proper sized drill to finish the hole. I also drill these kinds of holes by hand with the hand arbor, power drills make things happen too fast and frequently get away from you.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Thanks for the advice guys - not self tapping screws - look more like bolts than screws.

JB weld - I have some of that, but not a hand drill or small vice - guess I need to up my shop budget


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I've had this happen a time or two. I use 90 sec epoxy (home depot paint dept) and Nylon or Delrin screws. Nylon you can get at H.D. and Delrin ones you can get at kadee.
Get proper size bolt and mix small amount of epoxy, install little bit of epoxy in hole add little epoxy to bolt, insert bolt in hole and let set for hour. Put rail car in freezer for 1 hour then pull out and quickly remove screw. Wallah, new threaded hole, this can also be done with larger bolts just wrap bolt with plumbers Teflon tape and do the same thing!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting idea with the plastic screws, I may have to try that. If I have machine screws, I simply tap the JB Weld hole after drilling, so far that's worked fine. Most of my repairs are fixing shell screws for locomotives and rolling stock. I don't know why people think you need a hammer to put screws in!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I don't know why people think you need a hammer to put screws in!


You don't?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

novice said:


> You don't?


I rest my case.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

NIMT said:


> I've had this happen a time or two. I use 90 sec epoxy (home depot paint dept) and Nylon or Delrin screws. Nylon you can get at H.D. and Delrin ones you can get at kadee.
> Get proper size bolt and mix small amount of epoxy, install little bit of epoxy in hole add little epoxy to bolt, insert bolt in hole and let set for hour. Put rail car in freezer for 1 hour then pull out and quickly remove screw. Wallah, new threaded hole, this can also be done with larger bolts just wrap bolt with plumbers Teflon tape and do the same thing!


Hey Sean,

That's a very clever idea! Now in my "gotta try that" list! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Did you actually mean 90 second epoxy, or did you mean 90 minute epoxy? If 90 sec, why the 1-hour freezer chill? Thermal shrinkage ???

TJ


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Epoxy seems like the way to go - You the man Sean - any special brand or any epoxy that says 90 sec?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The freezer treatment is to break any bond between the epoxy and the plastic screw so you can back it out.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yep 90 second epoxy and yes the frezzer time is an estimate to break the bond. Any brand will work the reason I use 90 second over the longer cure time ones is that they tend to run out of the hole and can make a huge mess!
Besides that I'm a busy dude and I want it done now!!!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Didn't find any 90 second, but I did find some loctite 1 min?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm guessing the Locktite will do fine.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm assuming by "Put rail car in freezer for 1 hour then pull out and quickly remove screw." it means to "unscrew" the screw - not pull out?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, pulling it out would be a REALLY BAD idea.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Yep, pulling it out would be a REALLY BAD idea.


I figured as much but had to make sure - after all - I'm the "hammer the screw in" kinda guy


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Point taken.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yep that will work fine and dandy! One thing I would like to point out is that when mixing epoxy always mix it on a plastic or metal surface because anything porous will take away from the epoxy mix!
Another thing you can do to speed up the process is to use deodorant spray on the bolt as a release agent, just do it very lightly and allow it to dry before epoxying! And NO roll-on deodorant will not work!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Um, the epoxy I got came in syringe - no mixing - just squeeze and it mixes itself - no good?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It doesn't "mix itself"! If it's what I'm thinking of, the two tubes flow out, but you still have to mix them. I've never seen a real epoxy that "mixes itself".


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

It doesn't mix itself?

The package says: "Instant Mix" - "Self Mixing & Precise Application".

Sounded to me like - it mixes itself.

My question is how do I get the stuff into that tiny hole?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I guess I've never see that kind of product, I'd try a sample and see how strong it is. After all 60 second epoxy won't take long to test!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Does it look like this?







If it does then you'll need to squeeze a little out and mix it together! If it's got a spiral tip then it is self mixing, but you usually only find those for construction rebar bonding?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Squirt a little out onto a piece of plastic like a baggie and then use a tooth pick! You have to be VERY quick!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

This is what I got:


















Self mixing?

Can I use the syringe with the applicator to get inside the hole,or use the tooth pick and get it all over the chassis?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the instructions sound like it doesn't need mixing. This is direct from Loctite. Somehow, I don't trust products like this... 




> Depress plunger to dispense equal amounts of hardener and resin directly onto surface to be filled or bonded. Remove and discard nozzle. Wipe syringe tip immediately. Retract plunger slightly and close with the cap provided. Place objects together within 40 seconds of adhesive application. Bond sets in 40 to 60 seconds at 68°F (20°C) to 77°F (25°C). Remove any excess adhesive immediately with mineral spirits. Usable strength is obtained within 5 to 10 minutes. Warmer temperatures will shorten the set time and cooler temperatures will lengthen it.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Don't use the mixing tips you will use 100 times as much as you need to do the job, just take a baggie or a scrap piece of plastic and squeeze out a tiny puddle mix the two together with a tooth pick then if you have forceps or clamping pliers, hold bolt dip in epoxy and stick bolt in hole. Done, repeat on other hole!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

NIMT said:


> Don't use the mixing tips you will use 100 time as much as you need to do the job, just take a baggie or a scrap piece of plastic and squeeze out a tiny puddle mix the two together with a tooth pick then if you have forceps or clamping pliers, hold bolt dip in epoxy and stick bolt in hole. Done, repeat on other hole!


LOL, that sounds way too easy - but ok - I'll try it and get back to you - not tonight thought. Gotta pull out the bad ones, there are a few of them.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

It is easy it really is!!!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Sean - you the MAN 

Still haven't cleaned my darn locos


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Just here to help if I can!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

NIMT said:


> Just here to help if I can!


And you're doing just that  much appreciated.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Well, the loctite epoxy was a bust - I put some on the screw, placed in the freezer for 1 hour and the epoxy never hardened.

However, teflon tape seems to have done the trick - at least for now.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Did you let the Locktite cure for an hour first?

Truthfully, I'd have used different epoxy that you really mix, I told you I didn't trust those "gadget" packages. 

You could always go back to my old standby, JB Weld to fill the hole, then drill it out and tap it.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

yeah - instant epoxy isn't so instant - I left it in the freezer for 1 hour - never hardened - just got sticky.

Don't think I have a tap small enough for that, but I'll check - in the mean time the teflon tape filled up nicely and at least holds it in place.

Gotta find me some ho trucks and couples and those little screws/botls - I need to find about a dozen to fix some cars.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You do realize you were supposed to put in the epoxy, let it set for room temperature with the screw in it for an hour, and THEN put it in the freezer, right?

The beauty of JB Weld is you can drill the hole the right size and use the standard screw to make the threads.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You do realize you were supposed to put in the epoxy, let it set for room temperature with the screw in it for an hour, and THEN put it in the freezer, right?


Um no - I thought it goes right in the freezer for an hour


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

novice said:


> Um no - I thought it goes right in the freezer for an hour


Nope, that's where you made the mistake, go back and read Sean's description again. The epoxy has to cure for an hour, then you're freezing it to break the bond between the plastic screw and the epoxy to remove the screw.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Darn - ok back to the drawing board - thanks GRJ - you the man


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, to be technical, it was Sean's idea for the epoxy, I'm going to have to try that myself.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Does anyone know what size these screws are?

Are they all the same or are they different by mfg?

I need Tyco, Mantua, Bachman and Rivrossi.

Can I just get small screws from home depot or other hardware store?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The screws are all different sizes, depending on the manufacturer, specific product, and the phase of the moon. 

Many of the screws will be metric, so you'll have a much more limited selection at the local hardware stores. Home Depot has very few metric screws, for instance.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The screws are all different sizes, depending on the manufacturer, specific product, and the phase of the moon.
> 
> Many of the screws will be metric, so you'll have a much more limited selection at the local hardware stores. Home Depot has very few metric screws, for instance.


Figures  Thanks for the info though - I was afraid of that.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, I've started hoarding screws from old projects for that very reason. Also, in some of Lionel's old stuff, they used 6-40 threads! Who the hell ever heard of that thread before Lionel? What's wrong with good old 6-32, available at every hardware store?


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Quick search on Yahoo brought back lots of results, 2-56 and various lengths.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

JackC said:


> Quick search on Yahoo brought back lots of results, 2-56 and various lengths.


Yeah, but how do I know what size they are?

With a hardware store I would just bring the train - I have no idea what size any of these holes or screws are.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Oh my Jessie I feel that I have lead you on a endless journey into wanting to pull your hair out, kicking and screaming and heavy drinking!
OK yes sorry you need to let the epoxy set up completely before trying to break the bond and pull the screw out! It will set up after you get it out of the freezer! Just try it again!
As Far as screw types, I wouldn't care about what type or size came out of it. Just put in new ones that will fit the trucks, I found radio shack had a very cool assortment of the small bolts and nuts and washers that seem to work great for just such a projects.
Hang in there buddy we will get you threw this!


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

No worries Sean - it's a learning experience  and me and big ed are learning what not to do LOL


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