# A booster thought ....



## Lngstrt (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm just getting back to MRRing after a 25 year break. Looks like they have this DCC thing down now.

Some of the tech info is not penetrating the 61 year old brain.

For a small-ish home layout, 12'+- x 8'+- with normally just myself 'playing' but occasionally one other operator, can a second NCE Power Cab Starter Set be substituted for a booster? Daisy chained together? Or is that a no-no?

A SB5 sells for as much as a second cab set.

Ed
in Phoenix


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I don't know the answer to your question, but perhaps NCE can help if you contact them. I do know that it can be done with Digitrax and loconet. A Super Empire Builder's DB150 command unit can be configured as a booster.

I would ask, though, why you would want to have a booster on such a small system. A booster would be desirable on a very large yard on a larger layout, or if you were going to be operating several heavy trains on a hilly outer main loop and wanted the industrial sections separated with their own power for a bunch of other operators, but the size you describe doesn't seem to indicate the need for a booster. Keep it simple if you can. If you would like breaker-protected districts, just place a couple of digital circuit breakers in series off of a sub-bus.


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## Lngstrt (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks for the comments.



mesenteria said:


> Keep it simple if you can. ......


Probably the wise thought for many things.

I have also concluded that I likely don't "need" the booster.

I thought that "if" I might need a booster AND "if" I might want a second cab perhaps I could get use of a second cab and the possible benefit of a booster.

I've been planning to lay track, run wires and see if the "need" arose for a booster.

I will contact NCE and see what the official line is.

Ed


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

Lngstrt said:


> For a small-ish home layout, 12'+- x 8'+- with normally just myself 'playing' but occasionally one other operator, can a second NCE Power Cab Starter Set be substituted for a booster? Daisy chained together? Or is that a no-no?
> 
> A SB5 sells for as much as a second cab set.


in general, a DCC system is composed of a command station that communicates with handheld throttles called cabs and generates track signals to a booster that actually puts power on the tracks. A PowerCab is all three of these in one

there can only be one command station

the can be many cabs attached to a cabbus which the command station is the master of 

there can be more than one booster where each booster provides power to one or more electrically isolated sections of track (think this half of the layout instead of this loop of track).

i don't believe you can attach a booster to a PowerCab. I believe the next step up is a Power Pro 5 amp system which consists of a command-station/booster and a ProCab which looks like a PowerCab but is just a cab. The NCE PowerCab is a very good starter system because the PowerCab can also simply be a used like a ProCab with a command station like the Power Pro system or even another PowerCab.

you can read more about NCE DCC systems


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

I'm new with my cab, but yes, you can add the booster. It will turn the powercab into a procab(according to nce). You will no longer use the straight cable on the left port, and will, then use the coiled cable on the right port. Additionally, the cab, becomes a dummy controller(like the procab controller), and you can disconnect the cab, and move at will or desire..

Lol, me being a gadget junkie, if I could leave other things alone, this was my plan, along with a cab06(and my layout is tiny, currently only drawing 0. 5amps max on a powercab, according to the reading on the cab display).

But yes, it can be done, as the basis of my buying the nce system, was partly this ability to "grow" the system as I desired or needed. 

But no, you cannot add two powercab systems together. Nor, due to the limits on the amps the cab can handle, can you use any of the higher capacity power supply units(I was, at first, before buying my cab, trying to think of ways to possibly circumvent the booster, if need be) on the powercab.. 

Sent from my Note 8


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## Lngstrt (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks All !!

Food for thought. This is a bit premature. I am still in negotiation for where the layout is going up ...... I am in the hardware accumulation phase 

The domain so far:


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

i'm curious about expansion possibilities



MatroxD said:


> I'm new with my cab, but yes, you can add the booster. It will turn the powercab into a procab(according to nce).


Power Cab + SB5 Smartbooster. So an SB5 is a command station and booster.



MatroxD said:


> But yes, it can be done, as the basis of my buying the nce system, was partly this ability to "grow" the system as I desired or needed.


The NCE PowerCab Starter Set page discusses the options for expanding with a PowerCab 



MatroxD said:


> But no, you cannot add two powercab systems together.


you can use two PowerCabs, but one becomes just a cab (ProCab). 












MatroxD said:


> Nor, due to the limits on the amps the cab can handle, can you use any of the higher capacity power supply units(I was, at first, before buying my cab, trying to think of ways to possibly circumvent the booster, if need be) on the powercab.


The maximum current the PowerCab can handle is 3A


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

gregc said:


> i'm curious about expansion possibilities
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, it's an interesting system. The thing that I did not know, that you clarified (and this may help the OP also, along with others), is that I can either run my main system, with the booster. I will no longer need the panel that the powercab came with. Which means, that I can and will, have a dedicated second system to program, which only requires me to either disconnect the cab, and move over to the programming station, or, buy a second throttle, use that in the main layout, and move the complete powercab over to the programming track.. The only thing, and I will have to look at my coiled cable, is that it looked shorter than the flat cable, so I probably would need to buy another panel and connection cable..

Interesting indeed.. And this didn't even touch on the wireless possibilities.. 

Sent from my Note 8


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

MatroxD said:


> The thing that I did not know, that you clarified (and this may help the OP also, along with others), is that I can either run my main system, with the booster. I will no longer need the panel that the powercab came with.


while you've made me realize that an SB5 is more than a booster, I'm not sure the distinction between booster and command-station/booster has been made clear

the image below, from NCE Booster Diagrams illustrates the difference between a command-station/booster (left) and boosters. There's a diagram for the SB5 that is a bit difficult to see












MatroxD said:


> Which means, that I can and will, have a dedicated second system to program, which only requires me to either disconnect the cab, and move over to the programming station, or, buy a second throttle, use that in the main layout, and move the complete powercab over to the programming track.. The only thing, and I will have to look at my coiled cable, is that it looked shorter than the flat cable, so I probably would need to buy another panel and connection cable.


i think that if you buy a non-PowerCab system from NCE, you still need a PowerCab to program, at least the loco address. So it seems that a PowerCab is a good and necessary initial investment


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

The thing is, that they have smart boosters (that contain the command station function such as the SB5), and then, they have dummy boosters for larger systems/layouts that run and need more than 5 amps. At least from what I remember, they used to. In the diagram you showed, you have one smart booster (such as the SB5), in line with some of the dummy boosters. I think the dummy boosters, like you mentioned before, will feed the bus at various sections of the layout. But you still need a cab (remote) to control everything of course.

And the powercab(as I understand it)is unique and versatile, in that as a starter system, it contains everything, but can be the basis of a bigger system, that can then turn the powercab into a simple remote (cab). In this case, the booster/command station actually does the processing, and, at the same time, boosts the power output over the powercab (from 3 amps of the powercab, to 5 amps of the SB5). Then, if you need additional power, you can add dummy boosters (I think they are 5 amps each) inline to the sb5 command station/booster. 

You then, and this is where I'm still a little shaky, can add additional panels to run additional cabs (such as other powercabs in cab mode, or things like the cab06, etc) and things like the wireless radios.. I'm still a little unsure completely on this aspect, but I think that's how the panels work..

But the necessity of a powercab is dependent initially, on the size of your system, and what you need and want to run.. If for example, I was running my lights off the cab system (which I am planning on upgrading to do),I would probably, off the bat, just buy one of the booster (procab)based systems.. But if like myself, I'm just getting my feet wet, then I start off small with the powercab, and expand as I learn and need to.. But it is a handy way to go..

Sent from my Note 8


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)

MatroxD said:


> The thing is, that they have smart boosters (that contain the command station function such as the SB5), and then, they have dummy boosters for larger systems/layouts that run and need more than 5 amps. At least from what I remember, they used to. In the diagram you showed, you have one smart booster (such as the SB5), in line with some of the dummy boosters. I think the dummy boosters, like you mentioned before, will feed the bus at various sections of the layout. But you still need a cab (remote) to control everything of course.


as i said initially, there are three components of any DCC system

command station that receives requests to change the behavior (speed, direction, LEDs) of one or more locomotive from one or more cabs and repeatedly generate DCC commands


cab that allows a user to specify locomotive behavior


either a command-station/booster and additional boosters that provides power to one or more layout power districts with the polarity changes driven by signalling



MatroxD said:


> In this case, the booster/command station actually does the processing, and, at the same time, boosts the power output over the powercab (from 3 amps of the powercab, to 5 amps of the SB5).


no, the SB5 is not a power amplifier. When connected to a cabbus, the power cab acts as a simple cab that send request to the command station, the SB5.




MatroxD said:


> You then, and this is where I'm still a little shaky, can add additional panels to run additional cabs (such as other powercabs in cab mode, or things like the cab06, etc) and things like the wireless radios.


the command station is the master of an RS-485 cab bus. The bus can be extended around the layout using the UTP panels. A cab can be disconnected from the bus and reconnected elsewhere. The command station remember what each loco was requested to do and repeatedly sends it DCC commands to do so. This way if the loco looses power, it will receive a DCC command telling it what to do as soon as power is restored without the user needing to re-issue the request.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Ed

Our guys have certainly provided answers to your
questions. GrecC's post with the wiring diagrams
is especially helpful.

However, with all of that information I wonder if
we have clearly answered your question.

Simply put, The NCE Power Cab starter set is all
that you need to get your trains running, and do
any decoder adjustments you desire. It has all
the power you need to run 4 or 5 locos at the
same time. 

https://www.ebay.com/i/401506276458?chn=ps&dispItem=1

Boosters are for larger layouts or those running some
sound locos that take more power.

You can always add a plug in wired or wireless 
controller when your buddy comes to an
operating session. The wireless is especially
helpful. It can go where the 'action' is and have
no wires to trip over.

DCC is the most complete and yet simple way
to control model trains ever offered. Two wires
from the controller to the track and you are in
business. It is also very adaptable and many
very complex accessories can be added for those
so inclined.

One factor not mentioned is that you will need a power
source, AC or DC, to run any turnouts or accessories.
No DCC controller has terminals for
those purposes. Most of us use an old DC power
pack or an unused wallwart with the required output.

Don


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## Lngstrt (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks for all the info.



DonR said:


> ......
> One factor not mentioned is that you will need a power
> source, AC or DC, to run any turnouts or accessories.
> No DCC controller has terminals for
> ...


That alone is good to know!! 

Sometimes reading all the info is like explaining Baseball to cricket aficionados. It almost but not quite penetrates.

I have to set it up, run wires, encounter issues and solve them.


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## MatroxD (Jan 19, 2018)

Lngstrt said:


> Thanks for all the info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And actually, I'm using the wall wart to run my lighting. I think I am soon going to switch to these decoders that I have been viewing and reading up on.. I know they can operate lighting, are cheap, and make sense to me. But I don't know if they can operate switches, as my layout currently has none.. But from what they are saying, they can operate accessories besides lighting... 

ttps://www.ncedcc.com/online-store/Light-It-3-p78626959

Sent from my Note 8


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