# 2025 won't run on track



## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

OK, I'm new to this forum and engine troubleshooting. I bought a 2025 which didn't even try to run on the track. It seems there is no connection from the contact rollers to the e-unit. If I jump from the engine shell directly to the e-unit it response normally. If I jump from the engine shell to the rollers there is no response. I guess I'm missing something very basic, but like I said this is all new to me and this engine has become a training tool. I've had it apart and back together about five times. I've rewired the e-unit and light and made sure nothing was shorting. What can I try next?


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

Can you step through the points of contact with a multi-meter to be sure everything is connected (and grounded) correctly?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

One wire from the e unit goes down to the rollers, it sounds like that one is disconnected or has a break in it.
When you try it on the track and have nothing does the light bulb light up?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Basic wiring diagram for a 2025, here ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locos/loc2035a.pdf

Is the e-unit lever engaged?

The frame of the e-unit needs to be grounded for the e-unit plunger to work ... usually via direct contact with the motor frame, which, in turn, is grounded to the drive wheels.

Are you testing the e-unit upright? You need gravity to drop the plunger back down.

TJ


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

I think the wire from the e-unit to the rollers is disconnected, but where is the wire. Where does it begin at the e-unit and where does it connect to the rollers. Is it hidden? Do you need to take the entire motor apart (commutator etc.)to get to it? I've suspected this all along but just can't find the connecting wire. I tested the e-unit in and out of the engine and it works fine. I don't see any wire connected to the rollers. Is it somewhere behind them? There's something basic I'm not finding.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Usually, there's just one wire that runs up from the rollers toward the top of the motor, and then it either splits via a splice, or goes to a terminal (like the e-unit grommet) and branches off from there.

If the main wires is broken, then you'd have no power to e-unit, light, etc. Is that the case?

Pull the shell, and post some pics. We'll have a look.

(Oh ... you need over 3 posts before you can load pics, so drop in with a quick one below, and then another with the pics.)

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

*Poof! * He has three posts now.


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorry can't post pics. No camera. I don't see any wire connected to the rollers. If I turn the motor upside down should I see it or is it connected from underneath. Do I need to pop them out to see it? How do you get the rollers out? It seems this connecting wire is either missing or hidden or routed internally and I can't see it. There is one wire from the e-unit that goes from the e-unit to the top of the engine. It feels connected and somewhat bare at the connection. I suspect that's the wire that doesn't complete to the rollers but from there it's all inside and hidden. My problem is I can't see what's going on behind the motor's outer shell. I see the wire coming from the e-unit but it disappears into the motor and I can't trace it. Do I need to disassemble the motor all the way? Not something I've done before and was hoping to avoid it.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The motor from the rollers runs from the INSIDE of the roller plate up to the top of the motor/e-unit. The rollers are attached to a metal springy plate on the bottom of the loco. That's attached to the motor bottom (usually a fiber plate) with a couple of grommet-like rivets. The wire is soldered to one of those, from the inside of the motor.

With the motor out of the shell, look carefully into the motor through one of the ends of the motor (perhaps the end without the e-unit). You should be able to see the wire. If not ... well ... we might have a problem!

TJ


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

"You should be able to see the wire"
That's the wire I haven't found yet. I'll keep looking. I think this loco was worked on before and they may have forgotten to make this connection. Well, if nothing else I'm learning a lot of what makes these engines go.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Edit, There is no need to disassemble the whole motor, just take the shell off.



This is not your engine but just about all are basically the same thing.

See the green wire where it is soldered? You should see a tab where they go to the e unit. It then runs down to the rollers.











These are the rollers, you have they roller assembly then the fiber insulating piece under it.









There are 4 tabs on the insulating piece and it is hard to get it out without breaking the tabs, see I broke mine.
They are available but mine fits back in tight. I am working on a fix, I don't know if it will work though I might have to get a new one. See how the rollers are attached to the insulating piece, just solder the wire to either side.











Do you know how to take the shell off?


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now this is starting to make sense. Yes, that green wire is missing. It's the missing link I've been looking for. Now replacing it sounds tricky but my one weakness is I never give up. I think there's a special tool called a spreader to do this.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Newtown Joe said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now this is starting to make sense. Yes, that green wire is missing. It's the missing link I've been looking for. Now replacing it sounds tricky but my one weakness is I never give up. I think there's a special tool called a spreader to do this.


It doesn't necessarily have to be green this is what I had laying around, mine was broke.

The spreader is for the e unit, you don't want to spread the frame where the wheels are. And the e unit to take apart is tricky as you need three hands and a book of cuss words to get it back together.


The fiber insulating piece will come out in one piece if your careful.
But in Ed's world nothing seems to go easy.

We have threads on that insulating piece and a good video of fixing e units. If you need them I could dig them up for you.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

One link for the e unit, this has a good video how too, along with our T Mans pictures & explanations.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3040


I am looking for the one on the rollers.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

If you can snake the wire through without attempting to take the insulating piece off you might be able to solder it on the outside.

The T man did this to one of his engines.
A picture,


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

No need to spread and remove the plate.

Use the T-man fix, above, or ... use an existing grommet hole in the plate (if there is one), or drill your own. As long as you solder to the metal that's touching the rollers, you'll be OK.


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

I got it soldered from in back of the e-unit and it worked, but now I think I need a new smoke unit because it shorts when I put everything back together. I soldered a new wire on but the connection has too much bulk and touches when I screw down the front end.
These engines have very close clearances and everything must fit just right. A guy in the Lionel shop told me this is a hard engine to work on and since I'm a novice it's a real challenge. I'm determined to get it running. 
Another Ebay bargain. I'll never buy "untested" and "as is " again.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Glad the wire's fixed.

Put some electrical tape (or other insulator) inside the shell to prevent the short. Crude, but it'll get you going.

TJ


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

That.s worth try.
Thanks


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

Got it running and with a little lube it's going strong! Only thing left is to get to get the smoke unit back in.
Thanks for all the help. I never thought it would go again.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those old PW locomotives are almost indestructible.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ditto to that. I'd add prewar, too. In all the ones I've fiddled with, I don't think I've come across one where I couldn't get the motor running (armature and field OK). I may have needed a few parts, and some extra t.l.c., but there's life left in these old gals, for sure!

TJ


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

Seems you can always get 'em going with a little help from the experts.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Soon.....you can be an "expert" too. 
Even the old dogs learn new tricks now and again. :smokin:

What did you do take the smoke unit out all together?


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

I rewired it and the wire broke. I sent for a new heat element which will have more pliable wiring. Once I get it, I'll attempt to install it. It's kind of tight in there and not easy to get it positioned right. It'll probably take a couple of tries but like I said earlier, I never give up.
Do you have any suggestions to make it easier? It's hard to get it in line with the opening.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't have that particular engine but I always find that a few good cuss words works sometimes. 
Or threaten it with a big hammer and it seems to plop in place like magic. 

I will have to look at my book at the pictures it is probably like one of the other engines.

If you get too frustrated just take a break. Once you do something it will come easier the next time you do it. Sometimes when you take that break and then go back everything goes together nicely. Sometimes. 

Got to hit the sack now, early to bed and early to rise for me tomorrow.


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