# Lionel special announcement



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Received an e-mail from Lionel stating that a special announcement will be released 4/26. Any speculation / rumors on what it is ?

Bill


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2017)

I would not be surprised if Lionel was sold.


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I would not be surprised if Lionel was sold.


 To You ?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I would not be surprised if Lionel was sold.


i was kind of thinking the same thing that or they consolidated with mth


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm hoping they would say 'we are reducing our prices by 50% to all our loyal customers'.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Maybe they are announcing that they are going out of business and sold their remaining interests to Walter Matuch, who bought them and immediately discovered three old warehouses of unsold postwar locos that he is selling for only $695 each.


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## CincinnatiWestern (Jun 16, 2015)

Super excited! 

Just can't wait....I will bet $1 it is "breaking news" worthy...by which I mean totally uneventful.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

It could be that they found another 50 Lionel York boxcars in their warehouse.

Bill


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I hope they don't go out of business before I get my F40PH locomotives back!


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> I would not be surprised if Lionel was sold.


That would not surprise me either; question is, would it be a good thing? For us I mean.

I don't normally look at their Facebook page but that refers to a live announcement feed tomorrow at 12 noon EST. As they are choosing to do this right before York it must be something that they did not want to leave until the meet itself. If it's not a change in ownership it must be some sort of product announcement - although that might be something fundamental like a re-focus on certain products instead of others.

One other thing I noticed on that page which I had not got wind of is that they appear to be showing recent pictures of 3D printed mock-ups of the 21" theater car body shells. I doubt they'd be doing that if they were either about to start a going out of business sale or suspending production of certain of their lines. It might be slightly off topic but here are the photos:
























Aside from the above there are also what look to be early production samples of the Daylight version of the AC-9, which again I have not seen anywhere else. Note blackened rods similar to the last lot of Legacy steamers:


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Perhaps they are taking a key from Menards, with their "sneak previews". Anyway, this thread is fun just because of the anticipation. I don't know I'll be able to wait another day.

Guess, I'll have to go to eBay and buy something for a coupe of dollars.


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## balidas (Jun 3, 2011)

Maybe they developed the first O gauge Maglev train.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

OGR is buying them.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Spence said:


> OGR is buying them.


Yeah. Sometimes Lionel acts like they were already bought by them!


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2017)

Spence said:


> OGR is buying them.


Maybe Lionel is buying OGR?


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Country Joe said:


> Maybe Lionel is buying OGR?


I can think of a worse business decision - NOT. :laugh:


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Since Lionel did so well with their NASCAR train sets they have decided to be a major sponser of the real deal Menards NASCAR racing team.

Bill


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2017)

Could they be bringing all of their manufacturing back to the United States?

Emine


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## rboatertoo (Aug 5, 2015)

They did the same thing when they announced the GG1, on the Wednesday of York at noon.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2017)

The timing is interesting for an announcement that spreads all over their home page. Tomorrow is the TCA Museum manufacturer presentations that typically start at 1:00 PM., Lionel goes on at 4:00 PM. The next day the York Meet kicks off. The announcement is scheduled at noon tomorrow.

Sure begs a lot of questions, much smaller 2017 Signature Catalog, MIke Reagan's departure from Lionel, now selling on Trainz, conversations around the hobby of alleged staff cutbacks, could add up to something big to be announced tomorrow. We will soon know what the *BIG announcement* is.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

TheBigCrabCake said:


> Could they be bringing all of their manufacturing back to the United States?
> 
> Emine


A lot of speculation here. But I'm with you Emile. Wouldn't it be great if Lionel came to its senses and would be announcing that it's moving manufacturing back to the U.S.?

However, I'm not holding my breath.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Probably unrelated, but Lionel recently resumed non-warranty repairs. 

What evidence is there for them being sold? 

Personally, I would not be surprised if it were less than earth shaking.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2017)

*"What evidence is there for them being sold?"*

Just street talk. At this point, only speculation, but always a possibility at some point down the road.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *"What evidence is there for them being sold?"*
> 
> Just street talk. At this point, only speculation, but always a possibility at some point down the road.


Yep, when a company is owned by a capitol venture firm they better be returning an acceptable profit to the portfolio. Typically capitol venture firms will clean out the deadwood in a portfolio in the 7 to 10 year mark.

Bill


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## Stoshu (Jun 20, 2015)

_Just a thought. Maybe Trainz jumped the gun and the official announcement of Lionel and trains is going to be made at York. Trainz made the announcement but had nothing to show on the web site.... Back to my theory, they jumped the gun...._


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Is Lionel profitable (too lazy to research)?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Fabforrest said:


> Is Lionel profitable (too lazy to research)?


Only the holders of the portfolio knows. Guggenheim Capitol Management is a very profitable firm, they don't hold on to a company because it is neat.

Bill


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2017)

*"Just a thought. Maybe Trainz jumped the gun and the official announcement of Lionel and trains is going to be made at York. Trainz made the announcement but had nothing to show on the web site.... Back to my theory, they jumped the gun...."*

Though I personally do not think much of this arrangement, I am not sure that all the attention they are garnering from this announcement of another announcement would warrant the arrangement with Trainnz.

In any event, not much longer to learn what this is all about.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

well, i am more interested in the announcement than i was at the start of the day.


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## daveh219 (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't even have any Lionel and I'm excited


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Here it is:


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Craignor said:


> Here it is:
> 
> View attachment 304025


Now, that IS FUNNY! All the anticipation, and waiting, for this? Great post!


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2017)

Craig I love the comparison. Now all we need from the Lionel announcement is a Red Rider BB gun.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> Craig I love the comparison. Now all we need from the Lionel announcement is a Red Rider BB gun.


Brian, my middle son bought me one two Christmas's back. It now hangs over the fireplace in the train room.


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

Well now we know that all the hype was to announce Lionel is making a brass locomotive on a die cast shell. IMO, PR overkill to unveil a somewhat pricey engine being sold direct to customers by Lionel thereby bypassing their retail stores. Such a distribution philosophy seems like "The ghost of RMT past". With that sales method, could Water M. possibly have retired to replace Mike R. at Lionel?


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

As I predicted, no big deal. 

Also, not for me.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Yup, it's the "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine" again. Lot's of hype and loads of anticipation, worry and wonder, and we get Ovaltine.

I think they could have, at least, offered it in a nice gloss finish.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2017)

Brass, my opinion it misses the mark to what most of their customers will embrace, not to mention the impact to their loyal dealers.

*The hype does not match the result.*


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## POTRZBE (Jul 30, 2015)

If this item isn't sold through dealers, how am I going to get my senior discount? It is quite a good looking engine and I do not own anything in brass. 3rd Rail usually runs too large for my modest layout.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

That's Lionel again all right. Much ado about nothing.


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## Craignor (Jan 9, 2016)

Could be worse, could be a chrome plated 117th anniversary Hudson.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

OMG, you are correct. Hard to believe it isn't a Hudson.


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

It's a meh for me mths catalog surpassed that


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## ogaugeguy (Feb 3, 2012)

As a side bar to this discussion we can all be assured the way corporate America works that all this, the direct sales approach bypassing the long established dealer network and an engine made of brass, were at the very least in the conceptual stage, if not further along, when Mike R. decided to part ways with Lionel. Whether he was privy to it or was a deciding factor in his departure or hastened it is a matter of conjecture and we'll likely never know the facts.
Btw, do these recent, unexpected, and somewhat sudden happenings (selling via Trainz and today's "grandiose presented" announcement) reek of desperation by Lionel to anyone else but me???


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

I thought about the Mike R. connection myself. maybe he didn't approve of this direction. it certainly seems disconnected from the base and he was definitely "in touch" with the customers. it doesn't seem to me that there would be a whole lot of demand for this. however, i may know nothing, jon snow.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Good looking steamer but not something that I would be interested in. 

Would the brass boiler and fittings be some of the tooling that Lionel acquired from Weaver ?

Bill


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Fabforrest said:


> I thought about the Mike R. connection myself. maybe he didn't approve of this direction. it certainly seems disconnected from the base and he was definitely "in touch" with the customers. it doesn't seem to me that there would be a whole lot of demand for this. however, i may know nothing, jon snow.


I doubt that this had anything to do with MR's departure, which to the extent he's explained it had more to do with routine overseas manufacturing woes than anything else.

This first brass product doesn't interest me and I agree that wider/general demand for it is not likely to be large. But I can see some potential further down the line.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2017)

njrailer93 said:


> It's a meh for me mths catalog surpassed that


It's the same for me. I have no interest in this big announcement.

MTH will get some of my money this year.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Supposedly this is just a pilot model. Hopefully the final version will have more detail. As it stands its no better than a diecast engine, maybe even less so. Brass allows etched on fine detail which I don't see on the pilot. This looks more like an early Williams brass engine. Not my road name so I won't be ordering anyway.

Pete


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

ogaugeguy said:


> ...Btw, do these recent, unexpected, and somewhat sudden happenings (selling via Trainz and today's "grandiose presented" announcement) reek of desperation by Lionel to anyone else but me???


Yes. The End is near.

Pete


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

How completely, utterly s t u p i d. Whoever is in charge of their marketing and publicity is a moron. 

They would have received much more attention from me had they announced that, "we're making a super-premium Santa Fe 3160 class loco." That interests me. 

But this special announcement? Clear prove Lionel isn't loosing it. Its completely lost it.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2017)

I have been a Lionel fan for over 70 years, but what's going on now, including this latest release, causes one to more than scratch their head. Someone needs to put the rudder back on.


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## gnnpnut (Oct 19, 2016)

*No dog in this fight.................*

but I must be one of the few people that looked at this announcement and thought it was a step in the right direction. 

Finally, somebody is willing to take a chance on making the geeps of the steam era, instead of yet another hudson, northern, articulated or already done to death diseasel. 

I hope that this project is a financial success for them. I think they are missing out on a huge potential market here, and that would be for a two rail version, without the three rail electronics, or equipped with a high quality DCC decoder (Lok-Sound or SoundTrax). There may be enough Lionel loyalists out there that will soak up all of the production they care to do for this model. Don't know. If there is, great news for Lionel, and great news for this scale / gauge. 

$1,199.00 is not a deal breaker for those interested in brass steam, and this "hybrid" concept has worked out well for BLI in HO (I've acquired five of them). Nice stuff for the money. 

Even Sunset has announced a "hybrid" in HO. If this lowers the production quantities required for greater variety, why is this a bad thing. 

Beats yet another re-run of a Daylight, Big Boy, and whatever other ho-hum stuff that was announced in the MTH catalog.

As far as this getting sold direct, and not thru dealers, welcome to the 21st century. I've purchased most of my 3rd Rail direct (everything since 2006 thru 2013), and ALL of my HO Sunset and BLI product. Dealers add absolutely no value here. 

Regards, 
GNNPNUT


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

interesting take gnnpnut. good points.


crazy, i am actually rethinking this. i need a smaller steamer and if i get it unlettered, i have have Harry H. letter it for my layout.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

gnnpnut said:


> but I must be one of the few people that looked at this announcement and thought it was a step in the right direction.
> 
> Finally, somebody is willing to take a chance on making the geeps of the steam era, instead of yet another hudson, northern, articulated or already done to death diseasel.
> 
> ...


As I said - if they had just said "We're making a really accurate model of ATSF 3160 class," I would have been in line. The pictures of their model (and the video) look very much like 3217 and 3258, which I have photos of. I think it is a very accurate model. 

I'm checking now. If I can orderSKU 6-84472 - the one with paint and graphics - through my usual retailer, I will tomorrow. If I can only get it directly from Lionel, shame on them, and I'll pass on it and anything else they sell that way in the future.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

So, Lee, were you able to get through your retailer?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Wouldn't any retailer be required to purchase the brass steamer at the listed price, don't see any room for a mark-up unless they buy now then jack the price up close to delivery.

Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

seayakbill said:


> Wouldn't any retailer be required to purchase the brass steamer at the listed price, don't see any room for a mark-up unless they buy now then jack the price up close to delivery.
> 
> Bill


I guess so - they would pay the same as you or me, though. I spoke with my retailer today. Lionel told him that they would not sell him any for him retail sell. I asked him to pass on that I am not buying one directly, but would thorough him, and left a "if they cave and sell you one, I'll buy it." 

On a slightly different topic, I've heard from two sources now - don't know if it is sour grapes on not - that close up the detail is not that impressive. Was one on display at York? Has anyone actually seen one? Could be what people saw was a 3-D printed prototype - those are always a bit rough looking. 

I'd love to have a model of this big ATSF Mikado, but I think Lionel has put its head firmly up its butt and so not buying is my way of sending feedback I hope they understand.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

"On a slightly different topic, I've heard from two sources now - don't know if it is sour grapes on not - that close up the detail is not that impressive. Was one on display at York? Has anyone actually seen one? Could be what people saw was a 3-D printed prototype - those are always a bit rough looking."

i would like to know more about this, too.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I saw it today close up. Two engines over was the diecast heavy Mikado without paint. No comparison. There was far more detail on the diecast model. The firebox on the brass engine was devoid of bolt heads while the diecast model must have had about a hundred. The only detail on the boiler itself were the bands covering each section. No lagging clamps. Did have a few washout plugs. No idea if the final model will look like this though.
This prototype must a lot of added on piping but this same pipiping could have been added to a diecast version.

Nearby were the new 21" passenger cars. It appears Lionel is trying to make accurate UP excursion cars. Its the first time I have seen ACF cars made by Lionel. UP fans should be pleased.

Pete


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Pete, thanks. Disappointing. Were you able to ask them about the detail? Hard to believe that they would make this with less detail. What's the point? No order from me.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

The fellow there was taking an order for one. I didn't have a chance to talk to him and there were not many others there to ask about it.
Since I won't be ordering one anyway I didn't persue it. I hope the final version is improved as it will affect my decision if the next one is a never before produced NYC engine.

Pete


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

I looked at Lionel's display and had a difficult time telling a lot. There was a lot of detail but it was not a completed engine so what do You trust? I was not very impressed.

Plus - Lionel is trying something new. Minus - Lionel is selling direct. 

How it will look... Months ago I got a new Allegheny that had a screw and piece to the tender loose in the box and a pipe that fell off. When it came back after being returned, another screw was loose in the box. I don't trust Big Orange any more. I am glad that I like N&W so I am not having to decide.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Lee's post from another thread. 

"I've been told via a retailer who asked Lionel that yeah, that's it. I still have one pre-ordered through that dealer if Lionel will sell it that way, otherwise I'll pass. Detail or not, its ATSF and I'd like to have one of every class they ran. With only one more day for Lionel to change their direct sales policy though, I guess I'm passing on this one."

Why do brass if you aren't going to do detail? What's the point? I will pass.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Fabforrest said:


> Lee's post from another thread.
> 
> "I've been told via a retailer who asked Lionel that yeah, that's it. I still have one pre-ordered through that dealer if Lionel will sell it that way, otherwise I'll pass. Detail or not, its ATSF and I'd like to have one of every class they ran. With only one more day for Lionel to change their direct sales policy though, I guess I'm passing on this one."
> 
> Why do brass if you aren't going to do detail? What's the point? I will pass.


There is not a point, Fabforest - and I guess that is one point (along with the direct sales) that has everyone so puzzled with Lionel now (Well, that along with things covered in other active threads right now).


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Last years special announcement from Lionel was their entry into the HO market with the release of a HO Polar Express. Was there any updates on their HO business and was there any new HO product on display.

Bill


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

After all my ranting, at the eleventh hour (literally 11pm), I caved and ordered. Why?

First, I had self manufactured a desire for the engine because an unlettered version was offered. I am not an ATSF fan like Lee, but saw an opportunity to get a good looking engine and get someone (HH) to letter it more my layout and do a little light weathering for my first weathered loco. I had even mocked up the graphics. 

Second, I went to another forum that I had not intentionally visited in over a year to see what the reaction was over there. 

Ryan Kunkle, Director of Production, Lionel LLC, had posted the announcement there and was responding to questions. There were the typical side journeys (e.g. Whether galvanic corrosion would occur from using two different metals and whether the boiler would be cast brass or sheet brass), but important to me were York reports featuring in focus up close photos and even a short video. These convinced me that the level of detail was within what I would expect for an operational (as in moving, not on display) locomotive. 

It looked very good. 

Maybe I should get on Harry's December schedule now.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

All I can say is buy it now, Why because it is unpopular and it may change around in the future.


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