# Question as I build new AF layout



## kix662003

I'm building a new train board for my 1956 American Flyer Black Diamond set that I got for Christmas that year. The new layout is almost twice the size of the old one. It's a double loop with a couple of switches and uses just over 30-feet of track. I want to incorporate LEDs and flashing neon signs this time. As I was cleaning pins on my 57-year old track with a Scotch Brite today, I wondered if I should get new steel pins for the old track. My Atlantic 4-4-2 does okay around the new layout as far as power goes, and I'm planning to run AC accessories, the switches and whistling billboard on a separate AC transformer to take some load off the old 1 1/2. I"d like the track to be as good as possible before I "nail" it down. Should I replace the old steel pins with new ones or leave them alone?


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## Aflyer

Kix,
I can't see any reason to change the pins, i too have some pretty old track, and ca't see that the pins wear out.
That said, I do bend the pins to the side about 1/8 inch while assembling the tracks, this holds the sections together more tightly. If you have an old A/F manual you will see this trick suggested in there.
One other thing you can do is squeeze the end of the rails with needle nose players right below where the pins are inserted.

Good luck, and post up some photo's of your progress,
Aflyer


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## midlifekrisiz

Aflyer said:


> Kix,
> I can't see any reason to change the pins, i too have some pretty old track, and ca't see that the pins wear out.
> That said, I do bend the pins to the side about 1/8 inch while assembling the tracks, this holds the sections together more tightly. If you have an old A/F manual you will see this trick suggested in there.
> One other thing you can do is squeeze the end of the rails with needle nose players right below where the pins are inserted.
> 
> Good luck, and post up some photo's of your progress,
> Aflyer





^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^

I too run allot of AF track and these are the two best things i find (next to cleaning)


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## Big Ed

Before you insert the pins into the rail tubes clean out the hole where you put them also.


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## kix662003

"Before you insert the pins into the rail tubes clean out the hole where you put them also."

With a small screw starter (a scratch awl with a threaded end) or a nail? I've used a brass bristle brush, but that's it.


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## Aflyer

Cleaning out the holes, another good idea. I have actually been thinking about that but hadn't come up with a way to do it yet.

How about a pipe cleaner with a little WD40?
Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I echo everything suggested here and see no reason to install new pins. As long as the others are tight, they will conduct the power very well.


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## Big Ed

I use something like this, cheap enough.
a welding tip cleaner set.
I just ream it in and out a few times.









This one is here,
$3.95 free shipping.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Welding-Tip...s-Filer-Soldering-DIY-Alum-Case-/271157095910


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## Big Ed

I have a tile file set too that I found on the ground it is almost the same thing.

You don't have to ream it out a whole bunch, just make sure that you get the rust out and the inside gets cleaned up some.


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## Big Ed

I forgot this.











A Smith's PP1 "Pocket Pal" Multifunction Sharpener, besides sharpening pocket knives, the tapered diamond part is for sharpening serrated blades.
It is almost like a sandpaper grit on it.

It works good in the holes too. :thumbsup:
Like I stress just don't over do it, just enough to shine them up.

Those go for around ten bucks with free shipping on e bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Smiths-PP1-Pocket-Pal-Multifunction-Sharpener-Free-Shipping-/251220567217?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7de9a4b1


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## kix662003

Some great tools! The welding tip cleaner should be easy to find and do the job. My wife shot a quick video of me today when I was running the train around. I used the two switches in the layout for the first time. One works well and the other is slower. The locomotive already struggles to pull a couple cars at full throttle, and the speed cuts in half when either switch is operated. The operating track voltage is 12.1 and the accessory post is putting out 14. I assume that's normal. There is a second power terminal at the midway point, and locomotive speed is close to constant without operating the whistling billboard or switches. I had planned to buy an inexpensive AC power supply to run accessories in lieu of shelling out a $100 to $175 for a high wattage AF transformer. Now I wonder if I'm on track after watching the train stall with more than an empty gondola car and caboose behind the tender. I hope cleaning and bending the pins and polishing the track makes a difference in power. I appreciate all of the guidance and suggestions here.


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## Aflyer

Kix,
All the cleaning and bending the pins should make a big difference for you. I would be cautious with the tools mentioned, you don't want to change the shape or size of the holes in the track. That would make the pins fit loosely and lose connection.

I think you should be able to get up to 18 volts feeding the track from the variable voltage terminal on your transformer. What model Transformer are you using and what is the rated wattage?

A second transformer for switch and accessory power is a great idea, if you are into eBay you can find some pretty good prices on small transformers.

Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Aflyer is right -- on eBay there are some fairly high wattage trnasformers for a very fair price. You should be able to grab one for well under $50.00 in good working condition.

When is the last time the engine was cleaned and lubed?? Might also be an issue that tends to slow it? Be sure to clean the wheels and all contacts nice and shiny too. They are what gets the power to the motor.


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## Big Ed

I like the Smith's tool as it is tapered and it has a sandpaper like finish on it.
Like mentioned, just don't over do it.

If your slowing down you could add more wire and lockons (or use what ever you use to power the track, solder?) in spots on your layout. That way you get good power all around.


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## dc57

kix662003 said:


> I'm building a new train board for my 1956 American Flyer Black Diamond set that I got for Christmas that year. The new layout is almost twice the size of the old one. It's a double loop with a couple of switches and uses just over 30-feet of track. I want to incorporate LEDs and flashing neon signs this time. As I was cleaning pins on my 57-year old track with a Scotch Brite today, I wondered if I should get new steel pins for the old track. My Atlantic 4-4-2 does okay around the new layout as far as power goes, and I'm planning to run AC accessories, the switches and whistling billboard on a separate AC transformer to take some load off the old 1 1/2. I"d like the track to be as good as possible before I "nail" it down. Should I replace the old steel pins with new ones or leave them alone?


Hi kix,

Good luck with your new layout. I think you will have a great time with it. There are many people here who know a lot about trains, so you will get plenty of help.

I am curious to see what you come up with for the LEDs and neon signs for your layout. I am thinking about that for my own layout too.

Talk to you later
Don


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## kix662003

Thanks everyone. I'm using the original 1 1/2B transformer that came with the set, which is rated at 50 Watts. The set was new in 1956 and only used during the holidays in 1956 and 1957. It didn't want to run in 1958 and Dad never took it to be looked at. The locomotive is a 303 that's still like new. I read through the operator's manual and followed all the instructions on cleaning and engine maintenance. I also read the forum posts where a stored set would be put into operation again. The Vasoline had crusted, and was carefully removed. Tender wheels were cleaned and the contacts to the axles were cleaned with TV tuner cleaner. The armature was already clean, but I did what the booklet said. Only a small amount of light oil was used where specified, and a small dab of Vasoline was applied to the worm gear. It ran when power was applied with test cables. When I put together the basic loop of curved track, I noticed the light didn't work, nor did the smoke. I thought that I'd replace the bulb, but changed my mind when I turned it over and realized that I have no instructions on how to take the locomotive apart and put it back together. I've found a lot of electrical diagrams and part numbers, but nothing on dismantling except what's in the 1956 booklet. When I decided I could live without the light and smoke and put the engine back on the track, I had light and smoke. Both have continued to work since.

In the 57 years that the set has been stored, only the #725 cross rusted. The rest of the track is discolored, but not rusty. A few pits exist, but the top surface is still plentiful and shines now. I put a small amount of light oil on the rolling stock where the book says to. I don't feel any resistance when spinning the axles. A few couplers are "sticky", but I haven't used any WD40 or PB Blaster to free them up. 

The track layout can be viewed at http://www.kix66.net/3.html and I have a second #690 track coupler at the other side of the layout as directed. I used a heavier 18 gauge wire to the remote coupler to offset resistance. I bought the switch set from a "local" dealer that I met at a Train Show. He said that he checked/serviced them and guaranteed that they work properly. They do work, but seem to be starving for Voltage. I'm not using the rusty #725 cross track or any other pieces that look like they could affect operation. I plan to lightly sand the pin holes, but since the track has only been used two or three times since produced, I doubt there is any wear to worry about... only the normal accumulation of crud from being stored for over 50 years.

Questions... There is a brand new AF Switcher set available here for a little more than half of retail. It's a 2009 set from Lionel. It has a 40-Watt transformer, a basic loop of curved track, some rolling stock that I don't need because I have too much already and a locomotive that isn't 57 years old. Is this something I should consider buying since I need a second transformer and would like a locomotive to pull a string of cars like I see others do on YouTube? You can see from the layout drawing that I don't really need a switcher, but it does have smoke and choo choo, as my 303 does. I don't really have money to blow, but I have two grandchildren that love the train. The second question is Wattage. What do I need for the layout posted on my website? Is it better to run two transformers, one transformer and an AC power supply, or one high Wattage transformer? There's another model train show next month, and I may be able to pick something up there. I need six #700 pieces of track to finish the layout and I'm hoping there will be some AF items available. Are there Lionel transformers that I should watch for? I see there are 99 Lionel dealers for every 1 American Flyer table. I know that there will be different opinions, but I'd like to know what works and what doesn't. As stated on the website page, I'm grateful for this Forum and all the members who take time to post replies to my age-old questions. When I was thinking that I should dig the train stuff out of the attic, I never suspected that I'd be so needful of advice and instruction! It's hard to believe that these things are/were called TOYS! Working models for skilled owners would have been more accurate. I thought this would be easier than learning to fly RC Helicopters....NOT. (I'm still lousy at running them too. Could be age related?) Thanks again for any help and recommendations.


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## Aflyer

Kix,
Hi, great post and lots of information. As you noted you will receive many different opinions, so here is mine.
I am using an A/F 18B transformer which is rated at 175 Watts, they also made the 18B with 190 Watts, and a 30B that puts out 300 Watts. All of these have dual controls for a second loop of track and a second train control. If you think you will stay with a single loop of track I would opt for a 16B or 17B, there is a very nice looking 16B on eBay currently at $50.00. Link below.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...489240?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item41721eb4d8
If you could get something like that to run your trains you could should be able to see a big improvement in train operation. And you could use your smaller transformer for any accessory and lights you want to add.
Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

So first things first -- it sounds as though the #303 is now running correctly with headlamp and smoke? If I read your posting correctly, it seems you were about to take it apart to repair both these items, then balked at not having any guides to follow, then placed it back on track and they both worked? If that is the case, they are actually tied together -- the smoke unit has wires soldered to it that lead to the headlamp socket to provide power. If the smoke unit isn't getting any power, it's quite likely the headlamp won't either. To get the guides you need, see this website for exploded #303 locomotive drawings direct from the old AC Gilbert library...

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album209/303_1

This is the first page of the series on your #303. Go to the next pages to view the rest of the info including parts list with part numbers. If you go to the "home" page of this entire collection, you'll see the gentleman posted drawings for locomotives, accessories, transformers, etc. I'd save this in my favorites/bookmarks if I was you so it can be accessed easily for future reference.

The wiring to the smoke unit may be loose or poorly soldered, contain a break or something that prevented it from working prior to you fiddling around with it and it just now decided to make contact. I would check all the wires for good secure contact, solder joints etc. Chances are that might be the problem with it and it is likely it will occur again down the road. If all the wiring is good, maybe the bulb is loose in the socket? Also, be sure to have ample smoke fluid in the smoke unit. It is not good to run these without fluid in them -- 10 to 12 drops should be enough. Too much will tend to leak out and cause more issues. Smoke fluid can be found at your Local Hobby Store (LHS).

The tuner cleaner will work wonders on the old grease buildup in the gears, axles any moving parts as well as dirt and gunk on the electrical contacts. Use it on the gears/axles to get all the old Vaseline off. A good heavy spray followed with some Q-tips and/or paper towels will help clean all the parts. I have used a dab of Vaseline to lube the gears in mine but some folks will tell you to use a synthetic lubricant that doesn't tend to harden over time. These are also available at your LHS. In any case, only "a little dab will do ya" -- too much will tend to get everywhere and compromise the contacts and other items.

If you decide to disassemble the engine per the drawing, just a word of caution -- DO NOT remove the drive wheels from the motor chassis on the engine section. They are specifically quartered (preset) in a rhythm to drive the wheels and linkage properly without binding -- offset by nearly 90 degrees from the opposite side (RH to LH side if you carefully check). There should be no need to remove the wheels for what you need to do anyway. If you go this disassembly route, there are several more servicing tips that we can offer. Let us know if you are interested as they may help the "little engine that could" to run even better.

For sticking couplers, someone here recommended using some graphite powder for lubricant, like is used in keyholes. Get some at your local hardware store......hmmm that's also abbreviated LHS. I usually dab a little all around the coupler body and work the coupler assembly repeatedly, using a fine haired brush to work the powder into all the cracks and crevises of the moving parts, top and bottom. This seems to keep them loosened much better than using liquid lubricants that will eventually harden or pickup dust, dirt, lint. If you find you need to clean them, try tuner cleaner, provided it is safe for plastics or PB Blaster -- I have been recommended NOT to use WD40 -- don't remember why but I have not used it. I'm guessing it will eventually get gummy over time or leave a residue.

I would not purchase an entire train set simply to get a transformer and another engine that can haul more cars than the one you have -- that is unless you really want to get it. You should be able to fine tune the #303 to haul quite a few cars without difficulty. As far as a transformer, I'd look for one at the next train show. Perhaps you can find one that just needs a new power cord or some other simple work that needs to be done. Nonetheless, another decent powered transformer can be found for a reasonable cost at a train show. Some Flyer guys here use Lionel ZW transformers and swear by them. I don't have any nor do I know anything about them, but they must work well. Once you get another transformer, use it for the train(s) and save that 50-watt one for powering the accessories only. I'd try for 100 to 150 watts if possible. There are few on eBay currently. Just search for "American Flyer" in "Toys and Hobbies" and be amazed at all the stuff out there. Or narrow the search to "American Flyer Transformers" if you wish to be specific about only looking for a transformer.

I think I covered just about everything I could. You mentioned "sanding" at some point in your post. Do not use sandpaper on anything related to the track. I've been told it will remove the old nickel finish and cause more problems than it will solve despite the Gilbert manual telling you to use it. The green Scotchbrite pads work the best for the cost and will not damage the track.

Best of luck with this "new found" toy/hobby and be sure to post all your questions and progress.


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## kix662003

Thanks. I ordered the Smith's tool (to use gently) today. I also bought some liquid Graphite for locks, and quickly learned that I should have worn gloves! Talk about permanent! I didn't use WD40 or PB Blaster on anything yet, and won't. I ordered "Gilbert American Flyer S Gauge Operating and Repair Guide (Volume 1)" from Amazon by Thomas Barker today, to go with the two CDs that I bought on eBay that are duplicates of what myflyertrains has online for free. I hope this book is helpful. I can return it to Amazon if the description misrepresents the material within. 

Don, you are correct. I chickened out of opening the engine and then things "magically" began to work. The engine wasn't stored in original packaging and was moved about 10 or so times in the past 57 years. It's likely something has been shaken loose during those moves. I enjoyed the video on YouTube of Don and his grandson running the train at Christmas. There are now four photos on the train page of my website of my grandson (17-months old) and I running my engine. I think the expression on his face tells it all. He can't even talk yet, so he's too young to pretend or lie! I'm planning to buy a more powerful transformer to run the train and use the present one for AC accessories as suggested. I'm watching the one Aflyer noted on eBay. I bid on the 19b that ended a few days ago. I bid up to $100 and then decided that I wasn't going higher. It sold for $105. My reasoning there was that I will only be able to fit one track in the space I have (A small ranch house without an attic or basement, but with a 1 1/2 car detached garage.) As long as I have the power that I need, I'll be happy with one lever or two. Soldering on the track was mentioned. Is that a no-no if I'm not worried about loss of residual value? Any precautions? 

You guys that have helped me all live in nearby mid-Atlantic States. I see that there are two train shows that have American Flyer vendors in York, PA every year. When my kids were young, I worked in York and still have places that I can park our little (19-foot) Roadtrek camper van for free. How much can I expect to learn at a show like this? Are the tables bustling all the time, and are dealers likely to explain questions about their items to a novice or should I say 'HOBO'? Spina Bifida prevents me from spending lots of time at clubs or events where most people can sit to rest, but I can go out to the RV to lay down at shows. I'm making progress with this project, thanks to the continued help here. Thanks again!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

kix -- The book by Tom Barker is a great addition to your library for the info provided in it. Not only that, but if you become stumped, have a question that no one can answer or simply wish to share some American Flyer trivia, Tom offers his email address for any and all to use. He has often helped me on various projects and we keep in touch pretty often.

When I mentioned graphite powder for the couplers, I meant the product in a powder form. I've never heard of the liquid that you mentioned. Is it actually a liquid form?

Are you referring to a YouTube video of mine (Don and his grandson)? It doesn't matter hether you are or it is someone else with the same name, my grandson is now 18 months old, can't quite speak words yet except a few, but he certainly loves Grandpop's trains. He can pull his little arm up and down and shout "whoo-whoo". It's amazing how the little kids go bonkers over these things. It only enforces my love for these vintage Flyers.

It doesn't matter how large or small a space you have. You can always do something even if it is only an oval. A search on the internet for "American Flyer track plans" will yield some good results for small spaces in 4' X 6' and 4' X 8' sizes.

As far as obtaining a decent transformer on eBay, I saw a 100W #22030 going for about $20. No one bid on it but it looks to be in great working shape. Even though bidding ended, I bet if you were to contact the seller, he would sell it to you for a fair price. Here's the original listing....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-FL...GA2wdw7w%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_63wt_1130

There are plenty of others on eBay that are worth looking into also. I have seen the #12B dual control transformers going for next to nothing and those are rated 250 Watts. I have a couple -- one in good working condition, the others for restoration. Keep looking and wait for the right one to come along.

The York show is sponsored by the Train Collectors Association (TCA, Eastern Division). They run two shows per year -- April and October. Both are for TCA members only. However, they do allow a one-time offer for non-members to attend the show with the expectation that the person will join the TCA. The dues are $35 annually. I did this last year, so I consider myself a new TCA member. But attendance at the shows are worth the membership fee alone. You stull need to pay the admisison fee for each show, but after becoming a member, the fee is a minimal $12 if you register early. You can go to the TCA Eastern Division's website to find further info about them, joining and the shows....

http://www.easterntca.org/index.htm

These shows are the ultimate in trains....if you love trains, you have to go to these. Nothig comes close. I went to both last year and found lots of Am Flyer items to add to my collection. The show runs from Noon on Thursday until closing on Saturday. But there are several buildings of vendors to go through and it will take that long to see it all.
If your afflication makes it difficult to get around you may want to consider a motorized wheelchair. I've seen others using them so it is not uncommon.

Here's another website you might find interesting if not informative. Bob Graves took the time to catalog nearly every item AC Gilbert made for the "S" Scale American Flyer line. This is the gallery website....

http://www.thegilbertgallery.org/

If nothing else, it gives you a great reference to look through to find an item that Flyer offered in those vintage years.

Anything else I can help with, don't be afraid to ask or send a private message (PM).
I don't think I said it before, welcome to the Forum!!


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## Aflyer

Kix,
I think NuttinButFlyer has covered everything I was going to respond. He is so right about the transformers on eBay, they are plentiful, and taking your time will yield a nice one for a good price. Over the years, I have accumulated 2 15B's, 2 16B's, 1 17B, and 1 19B, all in good or better condition for little money. 

I don't think anyone has mentioned a flyer price guide yet but these are also good to have. There is one by Doyle, with pictures and prices of everything A/F has created. They are sometimes listed on eBay. There is also an annual one that I have, these can be picked up on eBay cheap if you buy one a year or two old, and new ones are about $15.00. Check out a couple of links below.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Standard-Ca...488873?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item19da96a7e9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Fl...063843?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item589e116ba3

I have never been to York, but the guys in my club go twice a year, and rave about all that is there to see and buy!

I didn't think to mention it before, but all the old Flyer catalogs have a number of track plans in them for the 4X8, and 5X9 table size. The nice thing about this is that you can always add another spur or partial loop with a switch or two and a couple of track pieces.

Happy trains to you,
Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Those vintage Flyer catalogs that Aflyer mentioned are available online at a couple of websites. Just do a search and you should find one. If not, try this....

http://www.rfgco.com/americanflyertrainscatalogs/index.html

Just hit the "Enter" button and all the years of catalogs will pop-up.

The price guide that I use is Greenberg's Price Guide for American Flyer and seems to be the most common and accurate guide out there. They are published each year for all the train brands as well as Flyer. The best price I found for it was through Amazon.com about $11.95 + shipping. However they are almost always available at train shows for a couple of bucks more. Considering the cost from Amazon + shipping, it might be better just to pay the $13 or so at a train show. I just happened to order Tom Barker's book at the same time as a matter of convenience.

As much as you may want to have the grand-daddy of all Flyer transformers, the huge 30B powered at 300 watts, you probably will never find one at a reasonable price unless it needs extensive work. I did get one, but paid will over $250 for it. Stick with a 12B or even the 18B if it can be found at a good price. The 18B is exactly like the 30B except it doesn't sport the dandy volt meters.

If you happen to decide to go to York, please let me know and I'll try to hook up with you somewhere.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Kix -- There is a long-time Forum member who has a some Flyer track and turnouts listed in the "Member-to-Member" sales/trade section....check it here --

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=17925

He is looking to trade these items as per an agreement he made with the person he obtained them from. I mentioned you might be interested as you are getting back into the Flyers after some many years. Perhaps the two of you can work some kind of an arrangement? I did not take the time to notice if a transformeer was among the items. Nonetheless, I posted to him on that thread by giving your username. Perhaps he will contact you?


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## kix662003

Thanks for all the links and info! I'm still high bidder on the transformer that was linked to eBay. 22 hours to go. Yes, the graphic is an arosol spray by Jig-A-Loo USA Inc., that's made in Wilmington, DE and in Canada. It came in a 5.5 oz. can is is awesome. The nozzle has the provision for the included tube and you can hit anything you aim at! I tried it out on the old camper van and could hit all the lock rods and linkage inside the doors. Just don't expect to wash it off of anything. Some ran down the outside of the metal can and I can't wipe it off. It's made to work well in extreme temperatures. I believe it will.

I'm anxious to get Tom Barker's manual now, and glad I didn't waste money (again). I have a substantial max bid on the 16b transformer, and I like that it was available when my set was new. 1956 was the year for plastic housings and circuit breakers I think. 175 Watts is quite a bit more than the 50 that I have now. Need to keep my Grandson smiling when he and his sister visit. He's 19 months old today. You can see him here: 

http://www.kix66.net/3.html

I was inspired to dig out the old train set after following a series of posts where I think NuttinButFlyer was building a Christmas Layout. I'm pretty sure that I watched the video of a small boy and maybe his mother watching the train. I think I read everything posted and know about problems with new layouts kept me calm when things didn't go just the way I planned. The #725 Cross track would seem to work when it felt like working. I was using the Number 4 Track Plan in the booklet that came with the set. Now that I've removed the cross and rearranged the layout, I'm happy. The buildings are arranged better and there's more track to run on. Again, I'm really grateful for this Forum and all those who post their activities and help others. I'll check the sales/trade section to see what's there. Thanks to whoever posted a link to the track design program in the forum. It's an easy program to use and looks a lot better than my hand-drawing. I'll post again when I get some parts and a manual.


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## kix662003

OOPS! That should be Graphite and not "graphic" in the last post. Sorry.


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## flyernut

I power all my stuff with Lionel transformers, but if I want to use my airchime whistles and stuff, I go to my 8b's. I also have a MRC transformer powering my switches.


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## Aflyer

Kix,
I would agree, it sure looks like your Grandson is enjoying the train!! He is very fortunate to have you building a train layout for him. My parents did the same for me, in American flyer, starting in 1950. Although I was away for 50 years, I am back and enjoying it, and oh yes still have some original stuff from the original layout, including my 18B transformer.
Great car pictures also, I too am a fan, and usually get to a local cruise-in every other week or so. And the Mother Road, still on the bucket list for me!!

Have fun, and please include an updated photo of the layout,
Aflyer


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## kix662003

Thanks for sharing that, Flyernut. Sounds like you have plenty of power! Took everything off the new board today so I can run the cables, pulleys and be able to get it up and out of the way. By the time you're back home and at the computer desk, I hope we'll both be running our trains again. 

Aflyer, you can see that I enjoy the old stuff and also being Grandpa. In ways I miss the good old days and simpler life, but I'm amazed with new technology. Digital looks so cool. I live a short way from Ocean City, Maryland and look forward to spending time at Assateague Island seashore and Endless Summer Cruising in Ocean City. This Summer, I hope to be spending lots of time building the new layout and enjoying running the train. We left to finish exploring Route 66 last May and didn't get back home until sometime in July. The Main Street adventure is finished now, and the American Flyer adventure has begun!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wow, I think the last time I inspired someone to do something, he got sent to jail for 10 to 20 years.

Seriously though, I'm glad to have provided that spark. That was my grandson, and the wife, both watching grandpop run the old Flyers. These trains are a ton of fun. And by the look of your grandson and of course mine, it's plenty of fun for them too. Kinda gives you a deep, warm feeling right smack in the center of the chest, doesn't it?

My plan is to begin building the huge, permanent layout I never was able to achieve. With retirement fast approaching, I expect to have this project well on its way in order to stay plenty busy until the time when my grandson will be ready take over the Flyers. 

I'm in the process of repairing and restoring all my current items and slowly adding to the collection as I go to various train shows and scan eBay listings so I'll be well prepared with items to include.

The only mistake I made so far was to invest in a ton of original Flyer track before I found out that replacement track is available that works much better. To change now would only incur tremendous costs. So I'm kinda stuck with that and will just make the best of it. Others have used the original track so I should be alright.

I have a large basement room, not yet finished, but hopefully soon, that will become my train room. I have heat and AC in it as well as a full bath nearby and an outside entrance. There is enough space to create a large "U" shaped layout. So my imagination is already going full speed to come up with a design.

Meanwhile, I keep collecting and fixing and learning from the great folks here.


----------



## kix662003

Your basement sounds great! My wife is from North Central PA and her family always had a basement for the guys to set up shop. Not possible here on the Peninsula. We're inland, but basements still act as storm drains. There's a church building next door and judging from the flow from their sump pump, they can run RC boats in it!

My American Flyer set has to occupy space in the garage, which is small, but has a half-bath, heat, AC, and a small work room with TV and PC. I plan to be out there a lot... working on the new layout!


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## kix662003

Hey Aflyer.... I won the 16b transformer that you posted the link for. It went for $68 which is within Greenberg's pricing. I love that it's like brand new. I really like my old 1 1/2b transformer because it doesn't have any wear or scars and now I have one just as nice that has the power to run the engine and all of the accessories. It's even the same year of manufacture that my set is. Very happy. Thanks a lot for pointing it out!


----------



## Aflyer

NuttinButFlyer,
I too am close to retirement, and may be 1 step ahead of you on starting my new layout. As we have seen in each others threads I also look for things at train shows and on eBay.

I wouldn't be scared of the old flyer track at all, we use a lot of it on our club modular layout and it works just fine. We also have some GarGraves track on some modules, and although it works just fine, it is a not as tough as the flyer stuff. I am also working in some at the K-Line 54" curves and they mate just fine with the original flyer track. The biggest issue is voltage drop on a long run, and that is easily cured with a bus line and track feeds every 3-5 sections.

If you ever visit the Classic Toy Trains forum, check out the link below to see my slow but on-going progress.

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/215689.aspx?sort=ASC&pi350=1

Aflyer


----------



## Aflyer

Kix,
I think your garage sounds like a great place for your trains. Heat, A/C, TV and PC what more could you ask for. Is there a refrigerator there for a cold beverage?

I am glad you got that 16B, it really did look like brand new. I think you will be amazed at the difference in power between that one and the 40 Watt 1.5 B.

In my last response to NuttinButFlyer I posted a link to a post I did on the Classic Toy Trains forum, that is my current project and probably will be for a long time to come. 

By the way, your Route 66 Adventure sounds awesome, something I want to do some day.

Aflyer


----------



## kix662003

Due to decreased abilities with two spine defects, I took early Social Security and retired in 2007. You guys retire, you will wonder how you ever found time to go to work! When you can, go see and do all the things on your bucket list. If you delay, health problems or worse seem to creep in and cancel plans. I hope you guys and your wives keep your health for a long time. I am very fortunate in that I lived a practically normal life with Spina Bifida and a collapsing spine until my late 50s. I have no gripes after a lifetime of doing whatever I really wanted to do. Now, I don't set the alarm or rush off to work. Instead, I'm focused on model railroading, cruising in my old RV or classic Caballero and spoiling grandchildren. Life is good! You'll see.

Yep, there's a dorm size refrigerator in the garage that well stocked. I extended my workbench to give more woodworking capability last year, and I have enough power tools to keep me bleeding for decades. 

Thanks again for the link to my new transformer. I played with cables and pulleys today so I'll be ready to run the train when it arrives.

kix


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## kix662003

Great looking layout and benchwork, Aflyer! That's top shelf all the way. I was surprised to see someone else using hardwood plyboard. My plyboard came from a kitchen cabinet shop. They're 2x8 sheets instead of 4x8 and the pieces have a mark or defect making it unusable to build cabinets. I won't tell you how little I paid, but folks who don't mind putting several sheets side by side or that are building shelf layouts should check with quality cabinet shops in their neighborhood. The only drawback is that the wood is finished on one or both sides, but most of us cover them with foamboard and scenery anyway. Your new layout sure looks fantastic! I'll watch your progress as you post.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Aflyer -- I like that layout so far, great track plan. I too have been running block wiring in my mind since I decided to attempt this project. I have no clue as to what I need to do it or what to provide. So I will be watching intently as you ponder along.

I hope to have a similar U-shape layout as yours. The LH leg should be about 17 feet of length, the back should be about 20 feet and the RH side about 15 feet in my current "train room". I quoted that name because all it contains now is junk. But my plans are in the works and your's is the model I'll be looking to for procedures, tips and inspiration. Please keep posting progress.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

I went to a friend's home after a show Sunday in NJ. He has a basement layout that runs into nearly every corner of the basement. He has Lionel O-gauge, Standard Gauge, Flyer and HO all together on this one layout. I was intrigued by the ability to run several Lionel o-gauge trains at one time. To do this he has separate lines but some are interconnected with switches for passing tracks and sidings. I assume that Lionel switches work the same as Flyer in that they can be set to run the power to the track that the switch is set for which leaves a siding dead while the mainline is active. He also has a reverse loop which had a track switch that would operate remotely as the train approached it switching to curve or straight to prevent derailing. I've never wired my Flyer switches this way. But I'm of the understanding it can be done with the proper wiring diagram and a few track trips. However, his Lionel uses no track trips that I could see. I would really like to know if that can be done for Flyer.

Just wiring the reverse loop is a major undertaking for me in the Flyer world !!

He also had a block signal on this same track that would automatically change to red after the train passed it, then several seconds later, change back to green. He said he used an infrared device to control it.

Being an old 50's Flyer guy, there is a whole new world out there that I need to study in order to catch up. Maybe if I ever do get caught up on this, I might consider looking into DCC someday.....yea, if I live to be 160.


----------



## kix662003

Wow, Don! Maybe I'll live long enough to have the know-how that your friend must have! I'm amazed when I watch some YouTube videos and see how much can be done with model trains (too complicated to be called 'toys'.

I have a question (as usual, huh?) The 16b transformer came a little while ago. I put the lever on and the colored bulb covers, got my multimeter out and ready, plugged the thing in and got 18 Volts on Accy and up to 18 on the variable terminal. I noticed that the variable Voltage doesn't drop back to zero (with no load). I bottoms at at 4 or 5 Volts. Is that normal? It has the power (toggle) switch to kill power, which is fine, but my 1 1/2b drops to zero. Please advise when you have time.

The transformer is mint. I love it. I was surprised at the size, which doesn't show when listed online. I won't be misplacing it in my small garage/shop!

Thanks to all who reply with input, suggestions and answers. I'm making progress!

From the Hobo with his new transformer and old train


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I went to a friend's home after a show Sunday in NJ. He has a basement layout that runs into nearly every corner of the basement. He has Lionel O-gauge, Standard Gauge, Flyer and HO all together on this one layout. I was intrigued by the ability to run several Lionel o-gauge trains at one time. To do this he has separate lines but some are interconnected with switches for passing tracks and sidings. I assume that Lionel switches work the same as Flyer in that they can be set to run the power to the track that the switch is set for which leaves a siding dead while the mainline is active. He also has a reverse loop which had a track switch that would operate remotely as the train approached it switching to curve or straight to prevent derailing. I've never wired my Flyer switches this way. But I'm of the understanding it can be done with the proper wiring diagram and a few track trips. However, his Lionel uses no track trips that I could see. I would really like to know if that can be done for Flyer.
> 
> Just wiring the reverse loop is a major undertaking for me in the Flyer world !!
> 
> He also had a block signal on this same track that would automatically change to red after the train passed it, then several seconds later, change back to green. He said he used an infrared device to control it.
> 
> Being an old 50's Flyer guy, there is a whole new world out there that I need to study in order to catch up. Maybe if I ever do get caught up on this, I might consider looking into DCC someday.....yea, if I live to be 160.


Don, Lionel switches have a non-derailing feature that requires doing nothing, except to replace pins with plastic or fiber pins,( if my memory is correct). When I first built my 027 layout for my youngest son, each and every switch had a non-derailing feature, so the little guy could run all day through approx 5 switches and not have a breakdown.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

I believe that is correct -- although I thought all the transformers dropped to something short of zero on the variable side. My 12B acts the same, leaving a small current when the throttle is off. So it surprises me that your 1-1/2 drops to zero. Then again, maybe I'm all wet. Hopefully one of the more experienced Flyer guys will chime in with the poop on this....


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

I guess there ARE some advantages to Lionel over American Flyer -- but I'm sure there are only a few.....LOL !!


----------



## Aflyer

kix662003 said:


> Wow, Don! Maybe I'll live long enough to have the know-how that your friend must have! I'm amazed when I watch some YouTube videos and see how much can be done with model trains (too complicated to be called 'toys'.
> 
> I have a question (as usual, huh?) The 16b transformer came a little while ago. I put the lever on and the colored bulb covers, got my multimeter out and ready, plugged the thing in and got 18 Volts on Accy and up to 18 on the variable terminal. I noticed that the variable Voltage doesn't drop back to zero (with no load). I bottoms at at 4 or 5 Volts. Is that normal? It has the power (toggle) switch to kill power, which is fine, but my 1 1/2b drops to zero. Please advise when you have time.
> 
> The transformer is mint. I love it. I was surprised at the size, which doesn't show when listed online. I won't be misplacing it in my small garage/shop!
> 
> Thanks to all who reply with input, suggestions and answers. I'm making progress!
> 
> From the Hobo with his new transformer and old train


Kix,
I would have expected the variable voltage terminal to drop to zero when the turret is turned to zero. There may be an issue with the carbon roller or the strap that it rides in. 
Does it go to zero if you lift the handle?
Aflyer


----------



## Aflyer

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Aflyer -- I like that layout so far, great track plan. I too have been running block wiring in my mind since I decided to attempt this project. I have no clue as to what I need to do it or what to provide. So I will be watching intently as you ponder along.
> 
> I hope to have a similar U-shape layout as yours. The LH leg should be about 17 feet of length, the back should be about 20 feet and the RH side about 15 feet in my current "train room". I quoted that name because all it contains now is junk. But my plans are in the works and your's is the model I'll be looking to for procedures, tips and inspiration. Please keep posting progress.


NuttinButFlyer,

I can't take credit for the track plan, I posted a rough plan that I did using RailModeler software on the MR Layouts and Building forum, and a few guys especially S & S, jumped in and helped create what you see today. if you want to see a great thread where people helped me to turn plain and simple into what I think is a great plan, check out this post.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/214324.aspx

As for your "train room", that is awesome. I think you can have quite a layout given all that space.
Aflyer


----------



## Aflyer

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I went to a friend's home after a show Sunday in NJ. He has a basement layout that runs into nearly every corner of the basement. He has Lionel O-gauge, Standard Gauge, Flyer and HO all together on this one layout. I was intrigued by the ability to run several Lionel o-gauge trains at one time. To do this he has separate lines but some are interconnected with switches for passing tracks and sidings. I assume that Lionel switches work the same as Flyer in that they can be set to run the power to the track that the switch is set for which leaves a siding dead while the mainline is active. He also has a reverse loop which had a track switch that would operate remotely as the train approached it switching to curve or straight to prevent derailing. I've never wired my Flyer switches this way. But I'm of the understanding it can be done with the proper wiring diagram and a few track trips. However, his Lionel uses no track trips that I could see. I would really like to know if that can be done for Flyer.
> 
> Just wiring the reverse loop is a major undertaking for me in the Flyer world !!
> 
> He also had a block signal on this same track that would automatically change to red after the train passed it, then several seconds later, change back to green. He said he used an infrared device to control it.
> 
> Being an old 50's Flyer guy, there is a whole new world out there that I need to study in order to catch up. Maybe if I ever do get caught up on this, I might consider looking into DCC someday.....yea, if I live to be 160.


Wow,
I think your friend has tremendous electrical knowledge and expertise. He also seems to have a pretty awesome layout running four different scales!!

I am trying to keep the wiring simple on my layout, but I would be remiss if I didn't admit I like some of these IR detectors and what you can do with them. I have several track trips and used them on the old layout for the crossing flashers, the flyer passenger station and a couple other things, but never the switches. I also never got to try the semaphores but think I will try them in the new layout. 

I have a hidden staging track right under the visible one and have been thinking about how to wire it so I can operate it without having to look under the table. 

What you explained about the switches A/F turnouts powering the sidings is correct, it worked well on my old layout. But adding track trips to automate the switches is over my head at this point. Hopefully others will jump in and help us all learn how to do that. Or maybe that would warrant a separate thread of it's own.
Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yea, I'm thinking the same thing. Perhaps when the time comes, a new thread should begin that discussion.


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## kix662003

Hi Aflyer. Yes, the Voltage does zero if I pull the handle up. Now I feel kinda dumb for not looking for instructions online before posting, but I wanted to leave feedback on eBay to let the seller know that I received the transformer. I wasn't sure if something broke loose in transit or what. Operator error. Just until I try to find something besides a parts breakdown on the 16b, should I life the handle to stop the engine? This transformer has lights (I know the left on works but I don't know if the red cap is supposed to be on it), a toggle switch and nice handle and 18 Volts instead of 12 like my 1 1/2b. I don't know how to use the thing yet. Thanks for the reply and mentioning lifting the handle. I'll let the seller know that it arrived.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

kix -- That website I posted for locomotive exploded views also has a section on transformers -- I'm sure the 16B is one of those listed. Here's the link to the main page of that Complete Service Manual......

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Here's a video of the layout that same member posted some time ago....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYWJtyLdvTU

There are other videos too if you look for them. I find it intriguing the length of this layout using standard Flyer track.


----------



## kix662003

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> kix -- That website I posted for locomotive exploded views also has a section on transformers -- I'm sure the 16B is one of those listed. Here's the link to the main page of that Complete Service Manual......
> 
> http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual


Well, this is the only site that I checked before. There's the exploded parts diagram, part number/price list and there's a page on making a conversion. Can I assume that the 16b is a cheaper version of a transformer with meters?
I see some instructions for the 17b. Are the 15b through 19 similar in their operation with meters and Wattage being the main difference?

Maybe someone has a 16b with circuit breaker who will email a pdf. Thanks.


----------



## Aflyer

Kix,
It sounds like you are doing just fine. The 15B through 17b, and 19B are all virtually identical, single turret transformers, minus the meters as you noted.
The turret control works the same on all of these units, so an exploded view of any of them will show you how it works inside the pretty case.

In my opinion lifting the handle is the best was to shut the voltage off even if turning the turret did give you a zero voltage reading. I will also tell you that most A/F locomotives need around 6 volts to even start moving, so what you are seeing for a voltage reading may be enough to stop the movement.

As for the lights, the red one will only come on if you have a short circuit, you can actually lay a acre driver across the rails to test the red light, and ensure that the circuit breaker is functioning properly

I think next steps while searching for an exploded view diagram should be to throw a loop of track together, hook a track clip the the base post and the variable voltage post and give the Loco a spin under new power.

I have most of my stuff packed away while building but I will look for my service book, which I think has the digram you need. Maybe someone who has one closer will beat me to it.
Aflyer


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## kix662003

Thanks all. I found operating instructions for the 17b transformer, that very closely resembles my 'new' 16b, and also in some of the sales brochures for 1956/57. I thought that the larger transformers were included or sold for larger engines and more expensive sets. Now I know that they offered several features like included in basic transformers like not have to go backward to go forward (I guess that's why the Voltage only drops to 6 as the ad states), a Dead Man's Switch and the extra power. I never realized these transformers were sold more as accessories than in sets. It looks like my 16b is one of a few that puts out 18 or 19 Volts and are marked this way. My poor old engine has been chugging along on 12 Volts (all my 1.5b can muster). I'm going to have to watch cranking the handle all the to maximum power! It should certainly have the power needed to wake up my sluggish switch. I'm really happy with this transformer now, and with the help provided here.

Having to mount 8-foot rails of 3/16" steel angle overhead in the garage/shop has been a chore for this old man! Thick steel for my cordless drill and old wood hardens with age! My wife's back is also bad from a career with the USPS, so I only ask for her help when there's absolutely no other way. I found a new type of 'green' plywood at Lowes yesterday. It looks great on both sides and is only $13 a sheet. I'm installing two pieces side-by-side over the area where the trainboard will hang. Hoping to have both sheets up today so I can begin to remove the heavy twine from the sheaves and pulleys, and replace it with stainless steel cable. I'm designing the system to lift my 4x8 utility trailer to be certain my new model railroad layout doesn't fall or falter. Nothing will be hidden in the garage attic, so I'll post some photos on my website and maybe post my first video on YouTube of the finished project.


----------



## kix662003

Aflyer said:


> NuttinButFlyer,
> I too am close to retirement, and may be 1 step ahead of you on starting my new layout. As we have seen in each others threads I also look for things at train shows and on eBay.
> 
> I wouldn't be scared of the old flyer track at all, we use a lot of it on our club modular layout and it works just fine. We also have some GarGraves track on some modules, and although it works just fine, it is a not as tough as the flyer stuff. I am also working in some at the K-Line 54" curves and they mate just fine with the original flyer track. The biggest issue is voltage drop on a long run, and that is easily cured with a bus line and track feeds every 3-5 sections.
> 
> If you ever visit the Classic Toy Trains forum, check out the link below to see my slow but on-going progress.
> 
> http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/215689.aspx?sort=ASC&pi350=1
> 
> Aflyer


Thanks for posting the link to your progress Aflyer. I'm learning by reading and watching, and now rethinking using extruded foam under my Flyer track. I assume SS is talking about the raised level developing problems, but it sounds like he's a guru in larger scales. I never found a way to read the forum at CTT, but your link gets me in.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Kix -- Here you go.....these are JPEG's but if you would rather PDF's please PM me your home email and I'll send them as attachments.


----------



## kix662003

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Kix -- Here you go.....these are JPEG's but if you would rather PDF's please PM me your home email and I'll send them as attachments.


Thanks! The JPEGs are fine. It's easier for me to keep enlarging text in the Windows 8 photo viewer than with Microsoft's PDF reader program. May go back to Adobe, but tire of the weekly updates. Windows 8 works okay for me.

I wonder why the power changed in 1956? Maybe the 190 Watt output caused heating issues? Thanks again.

There are a few photos on my website of the progress on suspending the new AF layout.


----------



## Aflyer

kix662003 said:


> Thanks for posting the link to your progress Aflyer. I'm learning by reading and watching, and now rethinking using extruded foam under my Flyer track. I assume SS is talking about the raised level developing problems, but it sounds like he's a guru in larger scales. I never found a way to read the forum at CTT, but your link gets me in.


Kix,
Yes, I think S&S was concerned about how I might use foam for elevation changes. If you are thinking about a basically flat layout I think the foam is a great idea, you can easily cut out and glue on pieces to make rolling hills ponds or streams. So many beautiful layouts to look at in magazines, you tube, internet forums, this could be a full time job!!
Congrats on your new transformer, it sounds to me like you are having a good time!!
Aflyer


----------



## Aflyer

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Kix -- Here you go.....these are JPEG's but if you would rather PDF's please PM me your home email and I'll send them as attachments.


Don,
Great job posting the good stuff on this transformer. That is much better than the view I have in my book.
Aflyer


----------



## flyernut

Aflyer said:


> Don,
> Great job posting the good stuff on this transformer. That is much better than the view I have in my book.
> Aflyer


Don is the man... Don is the "Don" of AF.. Believe it or get wacked.


----------



## kix662003

Aflyer said:


> Kix,
> Yes, I think S&S was concerned about how I might use foam for elevation changes. If you are thinking about a basically flat layout I think the foam is a great idea, you can easily cut out and glue on pieces to make rolling hills ponds or streams. So many beautiful layouts to look at in magazines, you tube, internet forums, this could be a full time job!!
> Congrats on your new transformer, it sounds to me like you are having a good time!!
> Aflyer


Thanks for clearing that up. I want to have some raised scenery, but not the track. I was planning to use a thin layer of extruded foam on the top of the board(s) to absorb vibration and to set the base of structures and details into. 

I learned that Timboy that posts those fantastic layout videos on YouTube was the eBay seller when I won the transformer. No surprise that the item is like new. As I remember, he had to split the video of his new layout into 4 or more parts. What talent (and what an investment)! I'm on a different budget these days. Your new layout should make a top YouTube MRR list too.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

WOW -- small world, Timboy resurfaces.

Aflyer - Maybe you are unaware of this link...

http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/GilbertFactoryManual

This is where I got the 16B transformer info. And if you look around, you'll see tons more great info. I actually printed each page and made myself a manual to use at my workdesk...well, all the pages except those on HO scale.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

flyernut -- Go easy on those Vicodins....I think you're starting to hallucinate.


----------



## flyernut

nuttin but flyer said:


> flyernut -- go easy on those vicodins....i think you're starting to hallucinate.


never!!!!


----------



## Aflyer

Timboy resurfaces wow!! I still have his recipe for oatmeal, which I may get to use on scenery sometime soon. His layout is amazing and the speed at which he built it just amazed the hell out of me. What a craftsman.

Kix, I think your plan for the foam board sounds great to me.

Don, I had forgotten all about the sight, but I will bookmark it this time so I don't lose it again.

Thank you,
Aflyer


----------



## kix662003

The dust shield, steel rails, center board, cables, sheaves and pulleys have all been hung in place. Amazon finally got around to shipping the cool lift hooks (after waiting a week to ship "in-stock" items! I think Amazon is hoping the buyers will upgrade their shipping from Free Shipping). The hooks worked exactly like I hoped, and they will barely show at all when the trainboard is sitting on the table legs. The frame is complete and the corners are reinforced to hold the board securely. I'll take a photo of the hooks that I'm using and post it here: http://www.kix66.net/3.html

With everything in place and initially adjusted, I put the electric winch in place and quickly realized that the square steel tube that the winch slides on isn't long enough! Bummer! It's not a big expense or deal to put a longer tube on the beam, but I really wanted to see the board/frame hanging. 

Feeling daring, I decided that I may be able to hold the lift cable in a way to just lift the board off of the utility trailer. I did, and it lifted the board. I just posted the photo on the site. The bubble on the level was still in the center of the board while it was suspended. Happy today! Since the trainboard is off of the trailer, I'm planning to visit the steel supplier tomorrow. Putting new photos on the site almost daily for those who are interested in my crazy idea and project. 

I'll find out how to post in the correct area of the forum when the benchwork and suspension of the layout is finished. If anone visits the page and has an idea or concern, this is the time! Please ignore the electric wires that are exposed at the far end. I found two fire hazards in the electrical work. For that reason alone, this has all been worthwhile.


----------



## Big Ed

kix662003 said:


> I'll find out how to post in the correct area of the forum when the benchwork and suspension of the layout is finished.


Are you talking this forum?
Just put it in My Layout forum?
Here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=36

Or you just could add to your build thread that you have now.
That way it is all together, from the base work to finish.


----------



## Aflyer

Kix,
What a great job you have done. The layout looks great, and your engineering of that lift assembly is awesome.
Glad to see you have made so much progress, I am feeling like a real slacker now!
Aflyer


----------



## kix662003

Aflyer said:


> Kix,
> What a great job you have done. The layout looks great, and your engineering of that lift assembly is awesome.
> Glad to see you have made so much progress, I am feeling like a real slacker now!
> Aflyer


Back in the old CB radio days, I'd say thanks for the flowers, good buddy. Thankfully, those days are past! 

I just added the photos of the lifting anchors on the website: http://www.kix66.net/3.html
I am really happy with these lift anchors and can't believe how little they will show when the lift cables aren't attached. They couldn't be any better.

Anyone who is still gainfully employed isn't a slacker! I'm sure that you put in a lot more time working than I do. The big difference is that you get paid for it. Thinking back... I wonder where I found the time to work 40 or 50 hours a week? Maybe I slept less. I don't remember.

Hoping to post more progress tomorrow evening.


----------



## kix662003

Thanks to Shaygetz, my layout will be expanding and more interesting! The Member to Member Sale or Trade section is a good thing!


----------



## kix662003

I replaced the steel tube that my electric hoist slides on as planned, and the initial lift of the trainboard was successful. I shot a short video, but can't post it on my website and not everyone is on Facebook. I'll take a look at YouTube this evening to see what's involved there. Thoughts and prayers will be for those in Boston who were involved in the bomb blasts this afternoon. Sad event for Boston's 'happiest day of the year'.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Weren't there a couple of brothels aliong Route 66?? Gotta include those for realism.....


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Weren't there a couple of brothels aliong Route 66?? Gotta include those for realism.....


Naw, they were in Pottsville,lol....


----------



## kix662003

My wife would... well let's just say the old postal worker would do something I didn't like!

There's a burlesque museum along the road, but I think I heard that the owner, an elderly lady who danced and brought her collection to display either died or closed it up. Not many original operators left... most are in their late 70s and 80s. Not saying that they're deceased; just not visible on the Road any longer. Angel the barber is still coming by his old shop in Arizona, but his brother who operated the Sno Cap is gone.

I've been rambling on another page (http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=18018) and posting updates on suspending my train board for the Flyer set. It's done! Shaygetz is fixing me up (trading) with some more track items, so I'm going to wait until I get the package to lay it out before nailing down the track. I need to finish screwing the plyboard to the frame and build some sort of keeper in case the board moves on the office table. It's all a perfect fit!


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## kix662003

Videos.... at last!

The first video is from the week in Feb when I got the Black Diamond set out of the attic, cleaned it and took it around the loop for the first time in 56 years. My grandson and I thought it ran very well.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/American Flyer Fun Feb 26, 2013.mp4

This video was taken on April Fool's Day of the old man testing his train to make a plan.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/April Fool Flyer Run.mp4

This video was taken today, showing how easy it is to put the new trainboard away.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77131782/Honey....mp4

There are a couple of videos while I was designing the lift on this page:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=18018&page=5

Now I need to unpack the boxes and begin to figure out what I have and how to use as much as possible. Hope you enjoy the videos, and thanks for all the ideas, help with the problems and guidance.


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## kix662003

If anyone has trouble viewing the videos above, go to the forum page in the last link where all were reposted in Windows Video format.


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## sjm9911

Kix, great job on the hoist.! It came out very nice. Great idea executed perfectly!


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## AmFlyerMike

Kix, I can't tell you how jealous I am of your setup! :thumbsup:
But if you are going to do Route 66, you HAVE to do Ted Drewes - you are right that it is the BEST custard in the world.


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## kix662003

*Question* - After reading Tom Barker's S Gauge Operating and Repair Guide, and his comments in the 'Modified Operations' section about using Bridge Rectifiers to change the AC power to DC, I feel this is something to consider, both for the Transformer and changing direction of my 303 engine. It looks fairly inexpensive as far as materials go, and my youngest son is an electronics tech to help with the conversion. How about some input from Forum members who now run DC or tried it and didn't like it? The conversion could be finished while I put my old track and all the newly acquired pieces on the board to see what I can create. All input and thoughts will be appreciated!


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## kix662003

New progress photos are here and poorly shot video of the 4-4-2 running around the new track layout with some of the pieces from shaygetz and the larger transformer can be viewed here. 

Planning to construct a two level layout with S and HO gauge as explained on the webpage. I'll be busy building the raised area for the Flyer train for a while, and have decided to limit S gauge buildings and structures to allow for space below.

Still wondering about the DC power conversion? Hasn't anyone switched their American Flyer engine to DC?


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## AmFlyerMike

Kix, I have not made the switch - I like the classic style. But I read stuff on Timboy's page in which he discusses it: timboysflyerprojects.blogspot.com/

Perhaps there will be something there to help you.


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## sjm9911

Kix, hell of a nice walk through of what you did. It's even more impressive now that I see the actual work and thought you put into this. And that's just the hoist and bench work The trains are coming along nicely also. Give that whistling billboard a nice place, I have I soft spot for them. Ps, I couldn't tell who was happier seeing the train run in the photos with the grandchild, you or him. I guess it was both!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Kix -- Finally had a chance to view those videos that were elusive to me earlier. I just love what you have accomplished so far. And the look of excitement on the little guy's face just says it all. Doesn't it melt your heart to see those vintage Flyers appreciated by children all over again? Reminds me of those days back in the 50's when we were the little ones who were so excited. I know my grandson loves 'em as much as yours does. Well done ! Please keep posting your progress.


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## kix662003

Thanks, guys. I spent all day yesterday rough-cutting wood panels (did too much for my condition!) The 16B really made a big difference in train operation and the turnouts aren't sluggish any longer. I think that I may go with Timboy's thought and keep the classic train in classic form without adding diodes as long as everything is working well.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Kix -- While I like the thought of using "clean" DC power for the Flyer equipment, I concur the change would eliminate the "vintage" of the items made back in those days. Some folks feel otherwise, constantly improving on those designs. It really is a personal preference. I recenlt purchased 10 rectifiers ($2.00/each) to do whatever my heart desires. But I have yet to decide exactly how I'll use them. I have a #334DC Northern 4-8-4 loco that runs on DC. Perhaps one will be used there. I also have some noisy action cabooses -- apparently the rectifiers will quiet them once installed. These are things I have to contemplate on my own. There may be a way to wire them in such a way that allows them to remain "vintage". I'll have to look further into that.

I just saw the video of your new 16B transformer in operation -- frankly I don't know how I missed it earlier....old age probably. I did noticed a slight cut-off of power to the engine when the switch is changed. I never noticed that on my layout but again I never paid much attention. I'm thinking if you power the switches with a different transformer other than the one powering the track, this would be eliminated. Hiowever, that is not to imply you must rush out on eBay and seek another transformer. It is only a suggestion. Your little 1-1/2B probably would work for the switches. It would be a good test for it.


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## kix662003

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Kix -- While I like the thought of using "clean" DC power for the Flyer equipment, I concur the change would eliminate the "vintage" of the items made back in those days. Some folks feel otherwise, constantly improving on those designs. It really is a personal preference. I recenlt purchased 10 rectifiers ($2.00/each) to do whatever my heart desires. But I have yet to decide exactly how I'll use them. I have a #334DC Northern 4-8-4 loco that runs on DC. Perhaps one will be used there. I also have some noisy action cabooses -- apparently the rectifiers will quiet them once installed. These are things I have to contemplate on my own. There may be a way to wire them in such a way that allows them to remain "vintage". I'll have to look further into that.
> 
> I just saw the video of your new 16B transformer in operation -- frankly I don't know how I missed it earlier....old age probably. I did noticed a slight cut-off of power to the engine when the switch is changed. I never noticed that on my layout but again I never paid much attention. I'm thinking if you power the switches with a different transformer other than the one powering the track, this would be eliminated. Hiowever, that is not to imply you must rush out on eBay and seek another transformer. It is only a suggestion. Your little 1-1/2B probably would work for the switches. It would be a good test for it.


My son, the electronics tech, looked at both sites that post the directions for running the engines on DC. He says that the switches and whistling billboard should remain AC powered, even though they could possibly run on DC. He feels that the changeover would be beneficial, and should smooth operation and reduce the obvious voltage drop when the switches are used. 

Since he has all the components in his engineering stash at work, he said he can make the change with no out-of-pocket expense and can easily change it back later for whatever reason. I guess that only the screw holes to mount the bridge rectifier may be visible if changed back someday. 

I had decided to leave everything alone, but now, I think I'll let him "play". He's involved in designing and providing customer support for a specialty welder manufacturer that builds machines for nuclear war subs, battleships, coal mines, railroads that operate third rails and power manufacturers. They design TIG/MIG/Stick and Stud machines powered on 480 + Volts. 12 Volts isn't any power in his daily life! This conversion made him laugh when I asked if he was sure about the changeover. He said that adding LED lighting to the layout would be very easy after the conversion. I do plan to do a lot with LED lighting.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I too have given though to the use of LED's for a variety of items. But as my layout is still only in my head at the moment, nothing more has been done on that aspect.

The rectifiers I bought from Port Lines are tiny -- look like little transistors. I assumed they can be soldered into a circuit without any visible appearance or any means of mounting them to a bracket, etc. Is it necessary to create brackets/holes for mounting these items?


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## kix662003

There's a box with a switch that needs to be built to go between the track feed and transformer that doesn't alter anything original, but look at the following link to see how the rectifier is mounted on the engine:

http://doerry.org/norbert/train/AF-Engine-Car-Mods.htm


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Despite all the photos and diagrams, that still is over my head. I am as far from an electronics engineer as one can get. Might be best to stick with what I have.


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## kix662003

I'll try to document everything so you and others can see what's involved. When I studied the Navy's electronic theory in the mid-60s, transistors were relatively new, so most of today's electronics is over my head too. In that day, kids were still having fun with a Model A Ford coil, shocking unsuspecting classmates, and installing flamethrowers in the tailpipes of old cars. I had a 58 Dodge Royal with a Red Ram V-8.

Only a couple new posts on the website. I've been busy with real benchwork... the jigsaw and sanders. Decided to go with one-inch extruded foam panel for a scenery base, but the old Flyer will run on thin foam on wood. It about killed me to remove the track after only running the train for two days! The nice part is knowing that everything works now.

Did you get any more great deals in York? I think my attending Fall show may be too much for my health condition and would cost more than I want to spend. I'm hoping to make the Timonium show at the State Fairgrounds next time. There's a local toy and train show near the Delaware Seashore May 4th. Planning to go. I want to get some new wire for the layout.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

To document everything you modify will be a great source for us to reference -- I would appreciate that very much.

The one inch foam sounds like a great start. You should be able to dig down a bit to create gulleys, small streams, etc. without too much effort. These add more realism to the layout rather than everything on one level plane. I plan to do somewhat the same thing but thought I might use 2" foam in some areas -- maybe the gullies will develop into canyons on my layout.

I have been to Timonium once. I was disappointed in that there were few Flyer items there for the long drive for me. David Blum is a Flyer vendor from that area who was there with his lot. He has very nice items but his prices also reflect that. He makes his own line of rolling stock too -- "Pikesville Models" or something like that?? He comes to York too. If you can get to York, you'll find a whole lot more Flyer stuff. Naturally, you'll need to bring money. With seven buildings full of vendors, you're bound to find things you will want to buy. The walking may be difficult for you though. My arthritis is a problem for me. I arrived Thursday @ 9AM and walked until end of day @ 7PM, then got up Friday at the hotel and did it all over again. By the time I got home Friday night, I was hurting. But the cache of items I brought home made that hurt seem less painful. I plan to post a thread about my York purchases in the near future complete with photos. Just haven't found the time -- been working overtime at the regular job doing 6-day weeks. With train shows on Sundays, my week is shot quickly. I haven't had time to sit and watch my Flyers on the layout for quite a while, much less run the new ones I got @ York. Anyway, if you can make York, you will be pleasantly surprised by what is there.


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## kix662003

Thanks for the input. I appreciate that. My doc wants me to limit walking to 2 hours a day. LOL! Until recently, I've gone to the antique auto flea market at the Carlisle Fairgrounds every Spring and Fall. I stopped the two-day tour some years ago, but with one day I can barely walk from the car into the house when I get back home. The next day or two, my ankles and feet were on fire. Hard to believe the 327 engine in my pickup is 50 years old now, and I'm glad parts are still easy to come by. 

I have a mobility scooter, an electric wheelchair, a trailer and a 2" hitch platform to haul them on, but the scooter batteries are 2007 and I don't really trust them. My wife complained so much that I could ride but she had to walk, I built her a buddy seat that hooks onto my scooter like a trailer. When we go down the boardwalk or local festivals, everyone runs over to ask where I bought it. I don't want to put too many photos on the website because I run out of space, but I'll see if I can use my cloud account and post a photo. You'll get a kick out it.

Spent today taking the trainboard apart, cutting 5-inches off of one end, and putting it back together again. There was too great a chance that someone would bump it off the table while the cables were disconnected. Now there's 2.5 inches on each side to put a retainer, and the board isn't sitting right on the edges anymore. I'll put a couple photos on the website tomorrow. Everything in our garage/shop is the same color as everything outside now... yellow! At least I can vacuum up the sawdust!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I thought maybe the yellow was from the pollen now falling everywhere with the change into Spring?

You should really give York a try in October. Use the buggy if you need to, many people do it too. There is just too much stuff to pass up by not going. The majority of Flyer items can be found in the Red, White, Blue and Silver Halls -- I once thought the Red Hall offered more Flyer than any other. But this past trip proved otherwise. I found tons of Flyer items in all the vendor Halls. There were even some Dealers that offered Flyer stuff which to me was remarkable. There are also a couple of Flyer parts vendors that offer those hard to find items your local hobby store (LHS) would never carry. Port Lines is one of those in the Purple Hall. Thankfully he does an online ordering/shipping business. Many of the other Flyer parts vendors at York do not. And if you are interested in basket cases or cannabalized parts, there is a show at a nearby fire company offering a ton of Flyer items at greatly reduced prices. Say you need a new chassis for a passenger coach or a caboose, you could get a used one there for a buck or two. Lots of opportunity not to try it.


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## kix662003

I'll keep York in mind. The date works. Sunday that week is the Mrs and my 40th wedding anniversary. We usually take a short trip at anniversary time. She's from Williamsport and we lived in York for a couple years. $35 membership fee and still having to pay to enter the show each day may not set well with her though. 

Spent a couple hours today at the saw tables, and cut all the ties that I need and 17 spares to store. I've been grumping that Gilbert wanted a high level of detail on the engines and cars, and used the realistic two rail tracks, but the number and spacing of ties is unattractive to say the least. What a difference two hours makes! You can see here:








Now, I'm waiting for the rain to stop so I can go outside to paint them.

I wanted to ask about turnout switches. The ones that came from shaygetz are different from mine. Mine have a taller module where the light is and they're strictly remote controlled. The ones I traded for are not as tall and have a manual slide control, but are also remote controlled. Both will work for me (after I buy some of the two and four wire cable), but I was wondering if one type was early and the other later? Can post photos if needed.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It sounds like the switch type you got from shaygetz are the older type. They are remote-controlled but the control for those is different from the newer ones. Although I think the newer control will work with it -- it's the other way around that I think it won't work. The older control has two positions for the levers -- straight and curve, there is no neutral position. The newer controls have three positions -- straight-neutral-curve. When you operate the levers of each type it will be very noticeable. I believe the reason the old control won't work with the new switches is that when they are placed in the desired position, they continue to allow power to the coil that switches the track frog and could burn it out. The newer style controls have that neutral position that allows only a momentary switch of power to switch the frog then settles in neutral until you change it again. That is why I believe the new controls will work OK with the old switches.

To be able to attend York, you should be a memebr whihc is an annual cost of $35.00. However, they will allow you to attend one time as a guest for the one-time admission fee. If you decide to become a member, you can register for an early admission to any upcoming show for a reduced price -- this past show was $12.00 I think. That is a one-time fee which includes admission to all buildings everyday and your wife is included free of charge. So for an annual fee of $35 and two admissions of $12 each, you can attend the world's greatest show twice each year. All-in-all, I feel it is worth the price when you consider the limitless items available that you probably will never see elsewhere. Plus there are other things to do in York besides attend the train show. The show runs from Thursday at Noon until Saturday at 2PM. However, after Friday afternoon, it pretty much is over as many vendors are already packing up their wares and heading home.


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## sjm9911

Kix, the layout is coming along better and better. I haven't looked at this thread for a day or two and now you got elevations! And some nice track ties. Excellent woodworking by the way.


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## kix662003

sjm9911 said:


> Kix, the layout is coming along better and better. I haven't looked at this thread for a day or two and now you got elevations! And some nice track ties. Excellent woodworking by the way.


Thanks, but I have to confess that I cheated on the ties. I found that Mohawk brand laminate flooring from HD or Lowes is the right thickness with a bead of glue underneath. I used two pieces of flooring, ripped into half an inch strips, and a 1 7/8" jig on the miter saw. The laminate cuts clean, but doesn't accept paint on the edges very well. I had to use black plastic coating, but I'm surprised how life-like they look now. They match the factory ties on the top and look like the real ties on the sides. They're all painted and set in place. Waiting to do the foam work before gluing ties and mounting the track.


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## kix662003

Progress posted on website. Thanks for the continued help provided here!


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## sjm9911

Innovation is never cheating. Someone once told me that without lazy people we would never have any inventions. The lazy people would invent things so they can work less! I agree. The layout is shaping up nicely. Thanks for the clearance ( on the side of the base), I would hit my head!


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## kix662003

sjm9911 said:


> Innovation is never cheating. Someone once told me that without lazy people we would never have any inventions. The lazy people would invent things so they can work less! I agree. The layout is shaping up nicely. Thanks for the clearance ( on the side of the base), I would hit my head!


I thought it was poverty that was the mother of invention, but either way, I've learned to find a way. All of this has been parts of old hobbies and interests combined. It's nice to have the layout in the shop where all the woodworking tools, art supplies and hardware is kept. If it was in the house, I'd have to clean up every day to keep the wife off my back! As it is, I just turn the lights off and lock the door.

I'm the the process of putting some antiques up for sale to do some more. Without a collection of 1/18 diecast vehicles to display, my original four-door Barrister bookcase isn't needed, and will bring money to buy some additional train stuff. The rare old 3-in-1 highchair on my website should bring enough to pay for the Walthers train set that I have on order. I've collected stuff for 40 years. It's time to sell and buy. The antique car, toys and peddle cars, however, will remain!

Big Ed said that he'd bump his head with 6'2" clearance too. Only short people around here.


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## Aflyer

Kix,
I think your layout is looking great, you have made some nice progress. Your rock wall is a piece of art. I have some areas where I also need some rock walls, so if you would't mind sharing how you made yours it would be great.

Thank you,
Aflyer


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## kix662003

Thanks, Aflyer. I will be happy to show and tell how I did it. Hopefully, I can spare others some of the issues with painting, too. It may be a short while before the wall's done though. The HO train on the lower level will travel on a raised section of the wall. And that's what I said I wasn't going to do initially. I'll need to cut the wall at the right height and angle, and then make the top part thinner to go beside the track. It should look like the track was laid on a hewn out rock ledge. It looks really good in my mind. We'll see how it looks when it's in place! I'll be doing the final foam work and adding the highlights afterward. I've changed my mind to allow for more track in a small space. In the mean time, I've been working on S gauge level and have my base paint done and now I'm using water putty to fill holes and cuts. That old Flyer should be in action soon!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

That little trolley seems to be an inexpensive way to add a little extra to your S-scale layout. I've often thought about adding a trolley line to my planned layout but figured I'd be kitbashing an old handcar to build one. How does the size compare to the Flyers?


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## kix662003

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> That little trolley seems to be an inexpensive way to add a little extra to your S-scale layout. I've often thought about adding a trolley line to my planned layout but figured I'd be kitbashing an old handcar to build one. How does the size compare to the Flyers?


I thought about putting them side by side, but have been spraying paint and everything is put away. I finished the fist process of the Limestone wall today. Now, I have to wait until I put the HO track on the lower level to finish it, so I can get the train back out. I post a photo. I wish I had a third level or deck. I'd have the trolley in a Christmas Village and could be like my neighbor and never take my holiday decorations down. I don't have room on the Flyer level, so it has to go on the HO deck.


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## kix662003

Okay... Here are two photos showing the 303 Loco with tender, the On30 Streetcar and a true 1/64 scale delivery truck. 



















So, what do you think?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I think the truck is the only item to true scale. But then again, the Flyers were introduced as toys, not scale models. Quite frankly it doesn't matter...whatever you (or I) want to do is fine. They are our model railroads and we're free to do whatever we want.


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## kix662003

I agree. My only concern is the Streetcar Barn is a lot larger than the other buildings on the lower level will be. I may hide the barn behind something or eliminate it all together. I doubt that I'll run the streetcar very often, and can be out of the way. All the track on the lower level will be the same scale and shouldn't look bad with a tiny stretch of gray EZ-track on one side.

My grandchildren will love all of them, and that's makes it excusable in my thinking. When they're older, things are bound to change. For now, I'm having fun with my new and old toys, and hope the get the Flyer roadbed done in a day or two.


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## sjm9911

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. When it's all togetherit will blend in fine. I believe, from my own layout, that the only one who notices a small imperfection is me. Try the building in a few different spots and leave it where it is most inconspicuous. Try in the front of the layout as well as the back. You never know what looks best until you try it! The main thing is keep it fun!


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## kix662003

While I'm spending my days laying on a heating pad and reclining in my lift chair, I'm trying to catch up on reading mrr magazines and new manufacturer's catalogs. I noticed that auto-reversing track is available for the streetcar set. Then I began to wonder if I can use the set without the O gauge building. A couple of clips, screws and a nut later, this is what I have:


























I keep thinking the building is too big for the S gauge layout and way too big on the Ho level. It's looks like I can extend the two power jack wires and run them to the future control console for AC power. The PC board could be mounted underneath the plywood deck or hidden in an HO structure, and then I can have the streetcar come out from under the right deck, make a turn at the front of the board and run to the other side if I buy more track. It should be easy to reduce the size of the building for S scale, and I plan to have a tunnel on the Flyer layout anyway.

What do you think? Do you agree? Any thoughts or cautions?


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## flyernut

I don't model in s scale as to be perfect. Whatever seems to make the kids happy, goes. If you look at my layout, I have O gauge mixed with s gauge, throw in some 1/48 scale airplanes, and anything the grand kids want to add.I have dinosaurs roaming around, along with a M&M character. The kids put them there so they feel they have a little ownership in it too.I was never a rivet counter,lol.. Your building looks perfect to me. I also have some Industrial Rail trolleys that look/run great with my flyer stuff... Eh, so be it...


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## kix662003

flyernut said:


> I don't model in s scale as to be perfect. Whatever seems to make the kids happy, goes. If you look at my layout, I have O gauge mixed with s gauge, throw in some 1/48 scale airplanes, and anything the grand kids want to add.I have dinosaurs roaming around, along with a M&M character. The kids put them there so they feel they have a little ownership in it too.I was never a rivet counter,lol.. Your building looks perfect to me. I also have some Industrial Rail trolleys that look/run great with my flyer stuff... Eh, so be it...


You're right of course. My grandson has a ride-on Thomas the tank engine for toddlers that has lots of great sound effects. All I have is the whistling billboard, but at least it's still "new" and sounds like new. He certainly has something to bring to the table! The more time I spend with the train, the more I want to do, but not to the point that it's no longer mine. With my present down time (lying in bed with a laptop on my chest), I've been looking at what others have done, and catching up on reading magazines. Thanks for the reminder of what's important!


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## flyernut

kix662003 said:


> You're right of course. My grandson has a ride-on Thomas the tank engine for toddlers that has lots of great sound effects. All I have is the whistling billboard, but at least it's still "new" and sounds like new. He certainly has something to bring to the table! The more time I spend with the train, the more I want to do, but not to the point that it's no longer mine. With my present down time (lying in bed with a laptop on my chest), I've been looking at what others have done, and catching up on reading magazines. Thanks for the reminder of what's important!


That smile you see on the little dude's face is what's important, and I see that you already know that. If we tell our grand-kids not to touch this or that, we just might drive them away from a hobby that's close to all our hearts. God bless...


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## kix662003

You sparked my curiosity, and I went back to look at your grandkid's contribution to your layout. I do see a dinosaur and the apple guy waiting the see your Santa Fe diesel run. I like your planes, too. Adding planes would be too much for me, so I'm letting the kids play with the plane from my M&Ms Pilot set, and selling the good one from Franklin Mint to offset the price of the Walther's HO set I ordered. I'm also swapping all of my 1/18 models that I have left to get 1/64 and 1/87 scale. At times like this, I can enjoy getting out the little cars to look at them. I traded my first car, a finned Dodge Royal, for a fairly new 65 Ford 2-door. I found a small scale die-cast 65 Galaxy 500. It's part of the Route 66 set that came out recently, but I found the Ford by itself. I also have a soft spot for 58 Chevys (I had a 2-door) and now have several of the M2 versions and a recent issue from Hot Wheels. I like the variety of cars and trucks on your layout. You have acquired quite a collection over time! 

How's your new hip doing? I remember you had about 6 weeks until you have a matched pair. Glad you're able to spend more time at the PC for a couple more weeks! You and the others have been a big encouragement to me. I'm hoping to bounce back and finish the layout. It's only a matter of time until my spine can't support me. This incident has been the most painful. and I seem to be in more pain each day instead of less. Pain can sure take control of life, can't it? I hope you're up walking around more these days, and haven't worn Mrs. Nut completely out.


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## flyernut

kix662003 said:


> You sparked my curiosity, and I went back to look at your grandkid's contribution to your layout. I do see a dinosaur and the apple guy waiting the see your Santa Fe diesel run. I like your planes, too. Adding planes would be too much for me, so I'm letting the kids play with the plane from my M&Ms Pilot set, and selling the good one from Franklin Mint to offset the price of the Walther's HO set I ordered. I'm also swapping all of my 1/18 models that I have left to get 1/64 and 1/87 scale. At times like this, I can enjoy getting out the little cars to look at them. I traded my first car, a finned Dodge Royal, for a fairly new 65 Ford 2-door. I found a small scale die-cast 65 Galaxy 500. It's part of the Route 66 set that came out recently, but I found the Ford by itself. I also have a soft spot for 58 Chevys (I had a 2-door) and now have several of the M2 versions and a recent issue from Hot Wheels. I like the variety of cars and trucks on your layout. You have acquired quite a collection over time!
> 
> How's your new hip doing? I remember you had about 6 weeks until you have a matched pair. Glad you're able to spend more time at the PC for a couple more weeks! You and the others have been a big encouragement to me. I'm hoping to bounce back and finish the layout. It's only a matter of time until my spine can't support me. This incident has been the most painful. and I seem to be in more pain each day instead of less. Pain can sure take control of life, can't it? I hope you're up walking around more these days, and haven't worn Mrs. Nut completely out.


Thanks for the kind words.. I'm now on a cane, walking about the house and grounds. My car club has it's first cruise-in this evening and I already told the wife I'm going, and that's final!! Gotta throw some gas in one of my cars and take it to the show.I don't take many pain killers anymore, just mostly regular tylenol. No more vicidone, tramadol, or oxycontin.The problem I now have is a pinched nerve somewhere in my right arm..Here's praying for a better outlook for you... Sincerely, Loren


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Like Flyernut says, your layout is what you make of it....it's your creation. Don't try to do things that other suggest or it will no longer be yours. Enjoy adding the items that make you and your viewers happy, and never worry how it will appear to others. You will feel better about it when you do that.


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## sjm9911

Hope you both feel better soon!


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## kix662003

Thanks for the well-wishes for Loren and myself. Jack C and some others seem to be struggling with serious health issues too. Some are part of aging and the past, but I probably deserve my present plight. I was constantly grumbling about not being able to do all that I wanted to do on the new layout, and got a wake-up call. It's no secret that the good Lord doesn't like complaining. Hope I don't spend 40 years learning my lesson. I'd be over 100! 

I do think that I improved slightly (yesterday and today), but won't know for a while. Glad that I can still read the posts here, and learn something new every day. Thanks again for the get-well wishes.


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## flyernut

Just don't forget; EVERYTHING is a test, a test of your faith.No matter how bad it seems or feels, you can not lose faith.I like to think that our mortal life is just practice for when we reach the Golden Gates. You'd better live your life here the way the good Lord intended, or you might not make it to eternal life.


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## kix662003

I agree, and know that we can't gauge our highs without lows. Now in my second day of improvement - pain, but not the wrecking ball variety, and increased time on my feet. I can even take longer strides now instead of the tiny baby steps! Still on my back most of the day, but feeling better. Hope you are too. 

Praying for those in the Tornado paths that lost loved ones and their belongings. Makes me feel grateful to live an area that doesn't have a lot of storm damage so far. I know it gets really cold and windy where you are. I don't hear of storms other than snow there. We seldom get north of the Corning Glass plant anymore, but went to the Falls on our 25th anniversary in 1998. Beautiful part of our world up there!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Glad to hear both you guys are improving. I pray for those in OK, such a terrible disaster -- always sad when children are involved. I don't think I can imagine that type of devastation. Hope they can find the faith to continue on.


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## kix662003

My wife went out to the garage and got my box of extra track out so I would know if my redrawn track plan will work, and if I have enough pieces of track. Isn't she great? Anyway, the pieces fit and the drawing works. This expansion will free up the siding and create two spurs in the center of the layout instead. I really like it, and I'm anxious to work on the risers when I can. There should be enough run for a 3% maximum grade. 

The only thing is, that while I have several spare pieces of straight and radius track, I need one piece of the AF 701 (5" Straight). Can a 10" piece be cut in half with a hacksaw, the ends filed and steel pins inserted or do I have to buy a piece? I have one piece from my original set that's unused and if I have another, the board will be more balanced and there will be more room for the spurs. Thanks for any help!


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## sjm9911

Kix, if it's tubular metal track, cut away. I think its a requirement. Hacksaw, dremal withe cut off blade or diagnols snip and bend!


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## flyernut

Use a dremel. I have special pieces of track that I save and use for just such purposes.


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## markjs

I use a Dremel, but I start on the underside of the track. Works for me.

Mark


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## kix662003

Great news. I have all of those things. With all the warnings against sanding or removing the nickel finish on the top of the rails, I wasn't sure that it's a good idea.


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## kix662003

My youngest son came by last evening to see if there was anything that he could help do for me. The two 5-inch pieces of straight track are now cut and have the pins inserted. They're in place, but I'll need to clean up the cuts with the Dremel when I can. 

I looked at the layout this afternoon. It looks great to me. Now, I'll have to check the grade for the overpass and make a test run. After I know the train will handle the grade, I can think about where the creek will flow and plan the scenery. My old Marx trestle bridge fits in well (my wife really likes the bridge) and the spurs are long enough to look like they serve a purpose now. Hopefully, the only pieces I'll need to find will be a couple AF end of track bumpers. Progress is two weeks old here, but I'll try to update and post a photo in the next day or so.

Since Sunday, I've been able to stand for longer periods each day and can sit briefly without a lot pain. Thinking that in two more weeks, I may be able to resume a lot of my daily activity. Thanks for all the well wishes and prayers!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Take it slow my friend. The last thing you need is a relapse. The layout will always wait for you.

I never throw any track or pieces from the track away. All of it, including damaged pieces, can be cut down to another size to fit that odd length someday. And the pieces/parts help add realism to the scene with a pile of rails or ties. I actually bought a fixture for cutting the AF track -- haven't used it yet. But it is supposed to maintain perpendicularity when using a hacksaw on it. Quite frankly, I'd like to avoid cutting any track if I can. But I'm ready if it becomes necessary.


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## kix662003

Well, the grades were probably in excess of 10% and 3% is plenty for an antique train. I dropped the level and put a service loop in the center of the board for industry and a few structures. There are still two open loops to run on, even when there is rolling stock on the siding and service loop. I really think it looks better now, and roughed in the location of the street car and a service road. The ? roadbed turned out to be a magnet for everything that moves or floats. Couldn't believe how much crud collected in the two weeks I was laid up. It's gone now. Cut a piece of mat board to try, and that's a lot of work. Ordered some cork, and I'll give that a try when it arrives. Have to take it real easy for a while, but I managed to get the foam-board rock wall cut today. Needed to lower the height to where I can reach over it for track cleaning and mishaps, even if I'm in a wheelchair. It's just over 5" high now (and I have twice as much). Below are two skinny photos of what should be the final track layout.









I believe there are still enough slopes to let me be creative with the scenery, and not more than 3% grade or 3/4" rise in 24". The small stream will be on the right side, and I will build some girder bridges. I can probably raise the suspended board higher to have 81" clearance again so tall people like big ed don't bang into it!


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## sjm9911

Kix, take it a bit slower. It's hard I know. You get the idea in your head and have to finish it. I did the same thing on my slopes. I tried them higher but on the downgrades the trains wouldn't stay on the tracks. So I lowered the grade just to give some depth when watching. Looks good, rest up.


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## kix662003

sjm9911 said:


> Kix, take it a bit slower. It's hard I know. You get the idea in your head and have to finish it. I did the same thing on my slopes. I tried them higher but on the downgrades the trains wouldn't stay on the tracks. So I lowered the grade just to give some depth when watching. Looks good, rest up.


Nuttin But Flyer gave the same advice. Years ago, my family wondered if I had ADD because few things I worked on actually got finished. I resolved to have a finished plan for all my projects, so I could stop on one, work on another, and know where I was on the first one when I went back to work on it. May sound weird, but it works for me. The old saying is that without a plan we go nowhere. Not sure it fits here, but it may describe me! Honestly, I'm a little concerned I may run out of time to get some things done, too.

I plan to secure the raised track areas and run the train for a while before "nailing" it all down. The way it is, the wiring shouldn't be hard to run. I am now wondering if I need to keep the track supported on 1/2" plywood runways so close to the layout board? It is quieter during operation, and I still don't know whether I want to just have foam underneath the track. The way it is, plaster cloth can run up to the top of the wood runways, and even over the top and down the other side. I can put the roadbed over the landscape cloth and then add ties and ballast. Do I want to add foam under the raised runs if I keep them on plywood? These are the things that will keep progress at a snail's pace for a while. If I get these wrong, I'll have to start over! Just knowing WHERE the track is going to be is a big step, now I need to go slower on HOW high it will be. Thanks for your good advice and encouragement. It's nice to have forum friends who care and share.


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## kix662003

sjm9911 said:


> Kix, take it a bit slower. It's hard I know. You get the idea in your head and have to finish it. I did the same thing on my slopes. I tried them higher but on the downgrades the trains wouldn't stay on the tracks. So I lowered the grade just to give some depth when watching. Looks good, rest up.


I have the problem with keeping the train from derailing a curve with a slight grade down, like you mentioned. I just can't slow the train down without it stalling. I opened a new speed related thread tonight looking for solutions. The track is flat again, and will stay that way.

I'm feeling considerably better today, and even planted tomato plants in some earth buckets when I finished playing with train. Still taking it easy and taking rest breaks. It hurts more to sit than to stand or walk. Thanks for sharing your experiences with grade and your solution.


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## kix662003

I felt well enough this morning to go out and work on the Flyer layout. I now have the extruded green foam board in place inside of the wooden track runs. Green foam board is great! Read more here. With changing the theme to 'Whimsical Route 66', the carved granite wall will be out of place, and not used. I think I may be able to create plexiglass panels on three sides displaying vintage photos and post cards of Route 66. I'm carving a scale Blue Whale that will be placed on the side of the pond shown here:








It felt good to be working on layout again, and I'm looking forward to to having all the track back in place and making a few laps with the old train again. With the speed issue out of the way, my only operational problem is the adjustment of the coupler on the engine. Whenever I cross a switch, I lose the rolling stock. I sure don't want to break the coupler off. My grandkids may be coming for a visit in July, and it would be great to blow some smoke and the billboard whistle for them!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It sounds like the coupler is just hanging a wee bit too low. A minor adjustment -- bending up the tab the coupler is mounted on -- should do the trick. If it's more than that, you might have to investigate the entire truck for any deformity and perhaps replace it. But that is rather unusual.


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## kix662003

I believe that your assessment is correct. The cars seem to come loose when the train crosses one turnout of the four. You make the adjustment sound pretty easy, so I'll take a closer look. Just use pliers to bend the tab?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Sorry Kix -- Was out all day doing yard work. Yes, probably a needle nose or smaller pliers will do the trick. Very minor bending is all it needs. I assume these are knuckles?The weight is probably rubbing over the cross tracks or switch frogs and it is just enough to trip it open. Another thought maybe that the weight might be a bit low on the coupler pin. I never disassembled a knuckle coupler, but they consist of 4 pieces. I think the weight is pushed onto the U-shaped pin that drops through the coupler. Maybe the weight could be pushed/pressed onto the pin a bit more?


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## kix662003

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Sorry Kix -- Was out all day doing yard work. Yes, probably a needle nose or smaller pliers will do the trick. Very minor bending is all it needs. I assume these are knuckles?The weight is probably rubbing over the cross tracks or switch frogs and it is just enough to trip it open. Another thought maybe that the weight might be a bit low on the coupler pin. I never disassembled a knuckle coupler, but they consist of 4 pieces. I think the weight is pushed onto the U-shaped pin that drops through the coupler. Maybe the weight could be pushed/pressed onto the pin a bit more?


Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## kix662003

I managed to bend the coupler up a little without breaking anything (unlike the Kadee on the front of my 'new' Santa Fe HO loco, and works on the outer loop. It still loses cars on the inner loop. I may take it to the LHS expert for examination. Walt Dennison, owner of the LHS fixed the rear truck on one of my log cars for a very reasonable price... free! He has also ordered the 4-conductor flat wire for my remaining switches.

Been gathering items for the board and have the basic (foam) tunnel laid out, the foil for the wet area glued down, and the backdrop (board) is back in place. Website has been updated, but no new photos of American Flyer layout have been posted. The clearance under the raised layout has been increased to 6'6" for my tall friends who may stop by. Detail work is going slow, but it's great being able to run the trains.


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## flyernut

kix662003 said:


> I managed to bend the coupler up a little without breaking anything (unlike the Kadee on the front of my 'new' Santa Fe HO loco, and works on the outer loop. It still loses cars on the inner loop. I may take it to the LHS expert for examination. Walt Dennison, owner of the LHS fixed the rear truck on one of my log cars for a very reasonable price... free! He has also ordered the 4-conductor flat wire for my remaining switches.
> 
> Been gathering items for the board and have the basic (foam) tunnel laid out, the foil for the wet area glued down, and the backdrop (board) is back in place. Website has been updated, but no new photos of American Flyer layout have been posted. The clearance under the raised layout has been increased to 6'6" for my tall friends who may stop by. Detail work is going slow, but it's great being able to run the trains.


PortLines has all your wiring needs.


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## kix662003

Thanks for the info! If Walt at the Train Shop says he's having trouble finding it, I'll go to Portline or suggest it to Walt. I've been getting a lot of instruction, discounts and product history from Walt for free, and I need to spend a little more than I have. He did sell me the cursed water tower though. I'll still have the last laugh. That little water tower is destined to become the famous Leaning Water Tower in Groom, Texas on the AF layout. I visited the site again last Summer, and it's become a cattle pasture with lots of stinking cow manure. The cursed tower should be perfect to play the part on my Route 66 themed layout.

Good to see you on the forum today, and I hope that your level of pain and discomfort has improved greatly. I imagine it will be slow going for a while and then.... ZOOOOM!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Hey Flyernut -- Glad to see you back here. How you feeling?


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## flyernut

Hi Don... Sloooooooow this time around but I'm trying to rehab 2 hips.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Keep yur chin up, you'll do fine. I had both done some time back. Everything is great now.


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## kix662003

Even after the 'cursed mishap' (http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=18833&page=2), I managed to get enough together on the AF layout to amuse the grandkids. They're a couple hours away now, and have been excited about Grandpa's train and going to the beach to play in the sand. It's a good preview to see where it's going. The Blue Whale's got no-body (literally) and what looks like canoes are sections to make his body. The tunnel is all foam; the pond needs color and liquid acrylic; the scenery is basic foam, plaster cloth and paint. A long way to go, but fitting of the Whimsical Route 66 theme. Have lots of accessories that that the little ones would want to play with, so they're put away for now. The streetcar shuttles guests from the vehicle entrance to the swimming area and rest rooms. The brown barn in the back is the beginning of the "ARK". The place that inspired the theme is here. The inner loop will be a train ride attraction and only roughed in. Catoosa, OK, the home of the Blue Whale attraction, has some cool old bridges that can be seen here. I have two bridges so far and planning a third for the train ride attraction. Hoping to start building some foam mounds, planting some shrubs and ballasting the track soon. I have some white fencing and light poles to add too.


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## eljefe

Looks like Grandpa is having a lot of fun!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Looking real good Kix. I do love the idea you chose to replicate areas of Route 66. After seeing these postings you provided, I want to go n a vacation. Guess I can save the money....and gas....just by stopping at your layout - LOL !!


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## flyernut

Nice...


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## kix662003

The kids went out to see the trains this morning. I think my Grandson was a little overwhelmed with the size of the new layout and having so much on the board. My Granddaughter is 18 months older and really liked what I've done. After lunch, we took my Grandson back out and eased him into the various items on the board. It worked, and he spent half an hour watching the train (pulling several cars), before switching on the trolley or blowing the whistle. His Dad thinks he may have been spooked by the noise and air volume from the industrial fan running behind the board. Heat Index was 104 today, and Grandpa ran the AC and the fan for quick cooling. We'll be back out for more fun tomorrow.


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## Aflyer

Kix,
It sounds like your efforts are paying off in smiles and interested young grandchildren. 

It's just too bad that you are not having fun. 

Leep up the good work, I am really enjoying your posts, and your progress.

Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

There's nothing like the smile of joy on the children's faces when watching the trains.


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## kix662003

I'm glad that I included the streetcar. It's been a hit with everyone, and was the easiest thing to put on the board and have running. The kids have been anxious to go out whenever I'm willing to them out to see the trains. They visited the working train station in Harper's Ferry, WV and the Hagerstown (MD) Roundhouse Museum on their way to the house and checked out the trains. I guess you could say their vacation and visit here has been 'trains on the brain'.

I'll post a few photos they took in the correct place.


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## eljefe

A nice, tidy garage to boot! I assume none of the little ones were attacked by the infamous water tower?


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## kix662003

eljefe said:


> A nice, tidy garage to boot! I assume none of the little ones were attacked by the infamous water tower?


No. It better behave while the kids are here. Everyone that visits asks about the leaning water tower and laughs. I admit to chuckling when I first went through Groom, TX.

I do think the kids liked it better when the layou was smaller/simple and they could sit on the board and look down at the trains. As they age, that shouldn't be a problem.


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## Big Ed

What is with the melon rinds sitting in the water?


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## Aflyer

Big Ed,
I think they are canoes.
But Kix will have to tell us for sure.
Aflyer


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## Nuttin But Flyer

They are canoes -- Kix has incorporated some of the sites he has seen along tours of Route 66 - this one, The Blue Whale, was one he decided to replicate. See more of the real thing here.....

http://www.bluewhaleroute66.com/


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## Big Ed

OK, I thought he was adding a little touch of Venice on it, sort of look like tourist gondolas over in Italy. I forgot the Rt 66 theme. 

I wonder if they are melon rinds left over from lunch? 
The whale needs a magic marker touch up on it. 

Maybe they are temporary?


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## kix662003

I bought two paper eggs at Hobby Lobby, thinking that they were really close to the size and shape of the whale's head. The head came out as well as I'd hoped, and I quartered the second egg on the bandsaw, thinking I would use the pieces to construct the whale's body. My wife saw them and thought the canoes were really neat. Several others liked the canoes, and asked about a dock and how I was intending to paint them. Now, due to popular thinking, they're my rental canoes at the Blue Whale Roadside Attraction. Glad to hear they fit in the theme.

My son-in-law asked me to transfer photos from his camera to his flash drive yesterday. Learned that the kids spent over an hour "running" the trains and trolley in the children's section at the Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum last Saturday before getting here the next day. There are trains that little kids can sit in, a control "room" where bigger kids can run a train with real controls, and the big O-scale layout with start/stop buttons at each corner for various trains. After seeing the photos and short video, it's no wonder that the level of excitement was less than I expected when they got here. I'm glad they have developed an interest in model and real trains, and working to feed their interest along the way. Grandpa is still having fun too.


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## kix662003

Sorry about the photos. I didn't renew my website where the photos were posted. I can re-post a photo if someone want's to see what was being discussed, but I doubt if I can change the link for past posts at this time. The S-gauge layout is up, out the way until some related projects are finished.

I have (larger) photos here that were shown in various posts. No room for notes, so photos have text inserted.


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## kix662003

For my forum friends that have followed this thread and watched the videos I posted in March: I want to share some good news I received today. My young grandson (19 months old in my photos (look of ecstasy while he was watching the old Atlantic running) has been in Children's Hospital with kidney failure. It's called HUS, but the doctors didn't know what strain he has. His red blood count was down to 15 and platelet and blood transfusions weren't helping. His kidneys are still only at 30%, but stool cultures finally reveal it's e coli that's causing the problem. He was so dehydrated and anemic that he couldn't poop. Today, he has stabilized, just before the scheduled surgery to put a pick tube in him. His little fingers have been stabbed for blood samples so often that they've run out of 'new' places. Now that they've identified the strain, he should hold his own and slowly recover. The doctors allowed him to have some diluted apple juice today, but it doesn't stay down after having an IV line in for so long. I want to thank all those who were aware and PMed well wishes and/or were praying for him. I would be hard to lose the little guy before he ever ran Grandpa's trains. He's my only grandson and half of all my granchilden. Thanks again!


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## flyernut

kix662003 said:


> For my forum friends that have followed this thread and watched the videos I posted in March: I want to share some good news I received today. My young grandson (19 months old in my photos (look of ecstasy while he was watching the old Atlantic running) has been in Children's Hospital with kidney failure. It's called HUS, but the doctors didn't know what strain he has. His red blood count was down to 15 and platelet and blood transfusions weren't helping. His kidneys are still only at 30%, but stool cultures finally reveal it's e coli that's causing the problem. He was so dehydrated and anemic that he couldn't poop. Today, he has stabilized, just before the scheduled surgery to put a pick tube in him. His little fingers have been stabbed for blood samples so often that they've run out of 'new' places. Now that they've identified the strain, he should hold his own and slowly recover. The doctors allowed him to have some diluted apple juice today, but it doesn't stay down after having an IV line in for so long. I want to thank all those who were aware and PMed well wishes and/or were praying for him. I would be hard to lose the little guy before he ever ran Grandpa's trains. He's my only grandson and half of all my granchilden. Thanks again!


George, prayers sent for a full recovery. I didn't know what was going on, please forgive me...


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## kix662003

Two transfusions and surgery to attach a pick line today. His blood count dropped below the minimum, and they're not gambling with his life. He does feels better, is hungry again and his kidneys haven't dropped below the 30% level. The doctors are hopeful he's on a slow mend. I've been gabbing with several forum members and friends by PM lately, and took the easy way to let everyone know that things had started to improved. No apologies.... just prayers until the tubes are out. Thanks for the well wishes and your friendship! George


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## sjm9911

I can only imagine what your going through right now, just know that my family's hopes and prayers go out to you and you family. Improvement is good. I don't know how to express what I want to. Stay strong, and pray everything will work out for the best. Also know ( I can vouch for this) even at a young age the trains you ran with him will always give him great Joy and be a part of his life ( after a speedy recovery I'll tell you how I know this). I'm Sorry that I did not know about this sooner, I've been away for a bit.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

George -- Many of us understand and feel the pain you and your family are experiencing. I hope things continue to improve. We were unaware of the situation until this posting but we are praying long and hard for a full recovery. Best wishes and thoughts be with you and the family.

Don


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## gunrunnerjohn

I was totally unaware as well George, please accept my apologies for missing it, and my prayers and best wishes for a full recovery! I know how I'd feel if my only grandson was in the same way, so I can kinda' feel your pain.


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## Big Ed

First I have heard of this to.
Sucks! 

Good to hear they narrowed it down and he is on the road to recovery.
What was it that caused it? Do you know?
Bad food?

I hate to hear stuff like this about anyone, but when it is a youngster it only makes it worse.


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## kix662003

Thanks, everyone. Sorry for the delay. I took my wife over to I-81 yesterday. My son-in-law drove up from TN and is taking her to his house to care for our (almost 4) granddaughter. If you Google HUS, you'll see that it's good he has the typical strain. The atypical is bad news... now and later. HUS is caused by e coli. It causes anemia and kidney failure. Sometimes fatal if not caught in early stages. It is the disease that the contaminated lettuce or spinach caused across the county in 2011. Wikipedia talks about Jack-In-The-Box and other restaurants that unknowingly used the produce. No telling where he got it from, but in the past 48 hours, he sat up by himself, even stood once and has a lot better appetite today and kept it down. He's not out of the woods yet, and I appreciate all the well-wishes and prayers. My wife thinks you're a great bunch of people, and doesn't mind being ignored as much in the evenings (that is before she left). I agree with her!


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## dc57

kix662003 said:


> Thanks, everyone. Sorry for the delay. I took my wife over to I-81 yesterday. My son-in-law drove up from TN and is taking her to his house to care for our (almost 4) granddaughter. If you Google HUS, you'll see that it's good he has the typical strain. The atypical is bad news... now and later. HUS is caused by e coli. It causes anemia and kidney failure. Sometimes fatal if not caught in early stages. It is the disease that the contaminated lettuce or spinach caused across the county in 2011. Wikipedia talks about Jack-In-The-Box and other restaurants that unknowingly used the produce. No telling where he got it from, but in the past 48 hours, he sat up by himself, even stood once and has a lot better appetite today and kept it down. He's not out of the woods yet, and I appreciate all the well-wishes and prayers. My wife thinks you're a great bunch of people, and doesn't mind being ignored as much in the evenings (that is before she left). I agree with her!


Very happy to hear that things are improving. I will continue to keep your grandson in my prayers. Best of luck to you and your family.

Don


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## flyernut

We'll all keep praying buddy...Loren


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## Aflyer

George,
So glad you have some positive news today, being able to eat and keep it down, sounds like a real improvement. We continue to have your family in our thoughts and prayers.
I mean no disrespect, but go out in the garage and look at your trains for a few minutes. It will be a little break for you, and a reminder of our Grandson all at the same time.

George


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## kix662003

Thanks guys. Good advice, George. When I get the call later that the wife is safely in Knoxville, I'm planning to so just that. I need a distraction. Got my LED lighting from China for the little layout. Great quality, they all work and I want to see what it looks like at night with overhead lights working. I'll post a couple photos if I can get some good ones.


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## kix662003

Okay... I think these are the best I can squeeze out of this aging Canon Rebel camera...




































Sorry it's not the layout that was started in this thread. This one is in the house.


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## flyernut

Looks good George. I just lost half my lighting on my layout; gotta see what happened....


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## Nuttin But Flyer

That looks great...very nice night time scene. The Legion here in town has little going on too so don't take it personally. In time they will have dances, banquets and such...as soon as you decide what to add.

As far as the e-coli, younger people are more susceptible than us middle-aged dudes. Hopefully he is already experiencing positive changes to soon be back watching Grandpa's Flyers. Prayers are continuing for him, you and the family.


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## dc57

kix662003 said:


> Okay... I think these are the best I can squeeze out of this aging Canon Rebel camera...
> 
> Sorry it's not the layout that was started in this thread. This one is in the house.


Wow!! That looks fantastic! You'll have to tell me more about this when you get time and things settle down for you.


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## Aflyer

George,
I agree, we all need some creative diversion even in difficult times.

As for your lighting that is awesome, Please give us some details about what you purchased and how you installed it when ever you have some time. Very Impressive, and I am going so very slowly I will have plenty of time to get the lights and install as I go.

Thank you for sharing,

George


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## kix662003

Just a few minutes ago, I received some news you'll want to hear. My Grandson's on the upswing now, he has an appetite again, he is keeping his food down, there's less blood in his diaper and the tests and vitals have greatly improved! Good thing I'm typing... I'm all choked up. His kidneys are functioning above the halfway point,too. Looks like he won't have to go on dialysis. The doctor said if he continues to improve, he should be able to go home soon, but the Neurologist will have to do tests to see how much (if any) damage was sustained to his brain or nervous system. I really want to thank everyone for their concern, replies, messages, well-wishes and prayers. It really has meant a lot to me. I am lucky to part of the group here. I'll post more updates in time. My best to all of you and your families, George


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## flyernut

kix662003 said:


> just a few minutes ago, i received some news you'll want to hear. My grandson's on the upswing now, he has an appetite again, he is keeping his food down, there's less blood in his diaper and the tests and vitals have greatly improved! Good thing i'm typing... I'm all choked up. His kidneys are functioning above the halfway point,too. Looks like he won't have to go on dialysis. The doctor said if he continues to improve, he should be able to go home soon, but the neurologist will have to do tests to see how much (if any) damage was sustained to his brain or nervous system. I really want to thank everyone for their concern, replies, messages, well-wishes and prayers. It really has meant a lot to me. I am lucky to part of the group here. I'll post more updates in time. My best to all of you and your families, george


great news!!!


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## kix662003

flyernut said:


> great news!!!


Thanks, buddy!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Fantastic -- prayers do work miracles.


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## Big Ed

That is good news! :appl:
I hope the little guy recovers completely, without any adverse side affects. 

Have they any clue as to how he came in contact with it?


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## kix662003

Thanks Don and Ed!

Two more children were admitted yesterday with the same disease. They're interviewing the parents to try to find a food, place or event that is common to the 3 families. CDC is also on the case. I'll post if and when they know. Here's a brief on causes:

HUS is characterized by hemolytic anemia (caused by destruction of red blood cells), acute kidney failure, and a low platelet count. It predominantly affects children. Most cases are preceded by an episode of infectious, sometimes bloody, diarrhea caused by E. coli. The most common form of transmission is ingestion of undercooked meat, unpasteurized fruits and juices, contaminated produce, contact with unchlorinated water, and person-to-person transmission.


My daughter tries hard to feed the kids right, and visits local farms and markets that sell organic foods. One farm sells goat milk that isn't pasteurized and she's used it in cooking. If the other kid's parents did the same, we'll know. Last big outbreak with e coli in spinach and then in lettuce. It seems that little bodies can't fight e coli like grown ups.


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## Aflyer

George,
I am real happy to hear things are on the upswing. Was just thinking as I read this post, we had some e-coli issues here in North Carolina, and they traced them back to a petting zoo at the State Fair. I can't recall the details, and this may have happened two different years, I did read recently that the State Fair this year was not going to have the petting zoo, as a precaution. I hope it gets traced down and the new cases don't get as bad as your grandsons.

Best keep working on those trains to be ready for his next visit.

George


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## gunrunnerjohn

That is indeed good news, and I hope the recover continues right up to the 100% level and this becomes just a bad memory.


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## dc57

kix662003 said:


> Just a few minutes ago, I received some news you'll want to hear. My Grandson's on the upswing now, he has an appetite again, he is keeping his food down, there's less blood in his diaper and the tests and vitals have greatly improved! Good thing I'm typing... I'm all choked up. His kidneys are functioning above the halfway point,too. Looks like he won't have to go on dialysis. The doctor said if he continues to improve, he should be able to go home soon, but the Neurologist will have to do tests to see how much (if any) damage was sustained to his brain or nervous system. I really want to thank everyone for their concern, replies, messages, well-wishes and prayers. It really has meant a lot to me. I am lucky to part of the group here. I'll post more updates in time. My best to all of you and your families, George


That's great news!


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## kix662003

Best news so far... my Grandson has improved enough since my last post that they've taken him off all meds, removed the IV tube, and disconnected the blood pressure monitor. He ate more today, kept it down, and the blood in this diaper is gone. The EEG the Neurologist had done today indicates his brain is fine and he should make a full recovery. His red blood cells aren't being produced as fast as the disease is destroying them, but the ratio is improving. Rumor is that he may be able to go home tomorrow evening after they surgically remove the pick line. The poor kid cries now when anyone comes into his room because they've stabbed his tiny fingers and probed him so many times. He hasn't walked much in the past few days, but the doctors feel he will with time. Thanks again for all the well wishes and prayers!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

George that is the best news I've heard all week. My best to you and the family.


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## flyernut

Outstanding buddy!!!!!!


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## kix662003

Aflyer said:


> George,
> I am real happy to hear things are on the upswing. Was just thinking as I read this post, we had some e-coli issues here in North Carolina, and they traced them back to a petting zoo at the State Fair. I can't recall the details, and this may have happened two different years, I did read recently that the State Fair this year was not going to have the petting zoo, as a precaution. I hope it gets traced down and the new cases don't get as bad as your grandsons.
> 
> Best keep working on those trains to be ready for his next visit.
> 
> George


Wow.... the State Fair there has it's share of bad luck! They may need to use a different carnival ride company, or perhaps it was operator error. I hope the three riders that are still in the hospital with serious injuries do well. You don't want to get on the wild rides or touch any animals if you go!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I guess you still haven't figured out how the lil guy got this organism??


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## kix662003

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I guess you still haven't figured out how the lil guy got this organism??


The only common denominator in the three families was buying organic foods and vegetables from local farmers and/or produce markets. Health Department is tight-lipped during their investigation, so doctors aren't saying much yet. My daughter makes a lot of foods and condiments from scratch... mayo, yogurt, bbq sauce, pickles, relish, jelly, ice cream, and the list goes on and on. She taught special ed and autistic kids in school for ten years and she wonders what's causing the numbers to rise. I think that she enjoys working in the kitchen while she's home with two little ones, and I know that she believes it's better to know exactly what's in the food they eat. She's concerned about all the refined wheat, fillers, sodium and such in processed foods. She's been buying fresh milk from a dairy farmer, and thinks it may have come from there. They drive to the farm and pick it up there. The kids are always in tow and like to see the animals. The farmer says all the milk is tested before being sold. My daughter said she'll be buying milk at the grocery store from now on, even if it turns out it wasn't the cause. It's just safer she thinks.

Last I heard (around 5 PM EST, they were on their way home! I'll confirm when I'm sure.


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## kix662003

My Grandson got to go home this evening. He still isn’t producing red blood cells as fast as they’re being destroyed by the remnants of HUS, but all of his other signs and levels have improved tremendously. They removed the Picc Line this afternoon and trained my daughter to care for the incision. He will remain on a special diet of bland foods, and he will have to be seen by the Nephrologist every few days. He’s really come a long way in the past few days!!!! The Neurologist is pleased with the EEG film and feels that he will completely recover with no lasting effects. I'm planning to go down for Thanksgiving. It will be a special holiday this year.


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## flyernut

kix662003 said:


> My Grandson got to go home this evening. He still isn’t producing red blood cells as fast as they’re being destroyed by the remnants of HUS, but all of his other signs and levels have improved tremendously. They removed the Picc Line this afternoon and trained my daughter to care for the incision. He will remain on a special diet of bland foods, and he will have to be seen by the Nephrologist every few days. He’s really come a long way in the past few days!!!! The Neurologist is pleased with the EEG film and feels that he will completely recover with no lasting effects. I'm planning to go down for Thanksgiving. It will be a special holiday this year.


I prayed for a happy ending, and we got it...Loren


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## kix662003

flyernut said:


> I prayed for a happy ending, and we got it...Loren


We sure did! My wife called today and said he was happy to be home and had about three of his little cars in each hand. Thanks to you and all my friends for the prayers and kind words.


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## sjm9911

Good news indeed!


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## flyernut

kix662003 said:


> We sure did! My wife called today and said he was happy to be home and had about three of his little cars in each hand. Thanks to you and all my friends for the prayers and kind words.


No thanks needed my friend..Our prayers came from our hearts...It's going to be a wonderful Thanksgiving and Christmas this year for you and your family!!! Loren


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## kix662003

My little grandson is still doing well, and eating like there's no tomorrow. He's regained his energy and balance. He went to the Nephrologist for his checkup, spyed the nurses and the doctor waiting for him, and went ballistic. He remembered them sticking his fingers and probing him for two weeks, and he cried long and hard. They couldn't get a good blood pressure reading because he was so upset, and when they finally got a urine sample, the bag broke! Now, he'll have to go back and try again, but the test results for everything else were good! He's back home again... probably hiding in his closet or under his bed.


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## dc57

Great news! Glad to hear things are improving. Sorry the little guy had such a bad day at the doctor's office.


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## Big Ed

Couldn't his parents collect a urine sample at home and bring it in?
They could take the temperature of it at the time, the sample itself should last for a while.

Good to hear he is eating and getting better.

Were they going to stick him during that visit?
Or just take the BP and urine sample?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Such good news, George. Pleased for you and the family.


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## kix662003

big ed said:


> Couldn't his parents collect a urine sample at home and bring it in?
> They could take the temperature of it at the time, the sample itself should last for a while.
> 
> Good to hear he is eating and getting better.
> 
> Were they going to stick him during that visit?
> Or just take the BP and urine sample?


Ed. I asked the same question, but left out taking the temp. Yes, they did stick him and take blood samples while he was there. The tests showed the amount of improvement that the doctors hoped for, and he would have been released to his primary care physicians if the BP and urine tests were also good. I thought he may even be more at ease with his Pediatrician, but he gets shots there on many visits. Perhaps the Nephrologist is just being careful before he releases him, and doesn't want to lose control before releasing him? With hungry lawyers always lurking, I can't say that I blame them. I guess we'll see what happens. Thanks for your input and concern.


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## Big Ed

I wish the little guy the best.

Maybe he built up some kind of immunity to it now too.


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