# ON30 - stability



## barrytrains (Sep 8, 2010)

I do not collect ON30, but since I have an HO layout I run them around the track a little if they come my way. I like the detailing on a lot of the Spectrum ON30 things, but I find them to be a bit unstable; particularly the old fashion passenger coaches and box cars. In the HO world, I run only weighted cars and have no problems. The ones mentioned above are already weighted but still unstable.

Has anyone else experienced this or do I need to run trains slower?

Thanks

Barry Zimmerman


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Hi Barry, 

Do the cars actually tip over? Or just wobble. I believe that narrow gauge trains are traditionaly run slow, and don't think that there are any "express" narrow gauge prototypes. You might try tightening up the truck screws a little to limit the amount of side to side car movement.

Greg


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## barrytrains (Sep 8, 2010)

Sorry for not replying sooner to your advice / comments.

The cars do not fall over but I think the box car and caboose in particular could. Their CGs are so high, kind of like a Toyota Land Cruiser, that their most stable positions are not upright. The Spectrum cars are much better than some others, and some do not have screws which would allow me to compromise between free rotation of the truck on the base and stability.

As I think about it, the instability kind of simulates less than perfect track alignment as they wobble their way down the track. Maybe I'll just put a net around the layout to catch them.

Thanks for the comments / suggestions.

Barry Zimmerman


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## craigh (Nov 12, 2010)

Barry,

I'm new to this Forum however, I've been modeling and researching Narrow Gauge for quite a few years.

Narrow gauge rolling stock generally is pretty stable and rarely tips over. Is it wobbly, somewhat, but that's primarily a function on the quality of the modeling, quality of the RTR model, or track-work.

Weighted or not? In my case just about everything I model is scratch built or heavily bashed. I use minimal added weight if I use any at all in rolling stock. I also restore the real cars, the modeling reflects that so in my case, visible added weights are a no-no. The cars and trucks work very well and I've come to the conclusion that the NMRA weight standards were designed to mask sloppy building practices, poor wheel sets, sloppy track work, etc.

The only exception on the weight I've had is when running HOn3 in a group setting with other people's cars and on overly long trains. My cars can get pulled off the track if there's heavily weighted cars in the string.

Greg mentioned that NG trains ran slow. True, most roads had average speeds between 12 and 24 MPH. 

There were a few that ran passenger service faster (but less than 40MPH)...some of the locos were capable of around 60MPH. Generally when they went that fast the crews were looking for new jobs the next day.

Hope this helps a little.

CraigH
www.pacificng.com


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## barrytrains (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks for your response. I never actually saw real narrow gauge train run so I don't know what to expect in terms of rocking, especially box cars. Normal box cars, on a less than perfectly laid track, show a lot of motion. 

The Bachmann Spectrum boxcars are the ones that make me the most uncomfortable. The unloaded boxcars are a bit top-heavy and I feel justified in adding a little weight at the deck level to simulate some sort of load. I think I will accept your criticism of my simplistic approach and add weights which model a load. I guess I got lazy because I could slid the doors shut and hide what was inside. 

I think my tracks are OK so I will look at my trucks and see if I can tighten them up a little.

Beyond that, I will adhere to posted speed limits and not worry about it.

Thanks

BZ


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## craigh (Nov 12, 2010)

BZ,

Wobbles and weight:
Take a look at the Railway Engineering web site and specifically at this link: http://www.railwayeng.com/rrhints.htm

It's a technique that works very well to add a 3 point suspension to a car. It's dirt simple and I use it regularly.

Steve Hatch owns the site (and Railway Engineering). His bread and butter is custom switch building and he's extremely good at them. He also has some very strong feelings about the NMRA track standards...backed up with decades of testing and evidence. 

He's a great guy, and a good teacher. Taught me the process of hand-laying absolutely flawless trackwork.

CraigH
http://www.pacificng.com/template.php


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## stationmaster (Dec 7, 2008)

Most ON30 units, even those narrow gauge cars in the REAL world, are not menat to be run at high speed. My shays are snails at best when compared to "normal" scale pieces.

Bob


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## craigh (Nov 12, 2010)

Bob,
Regarding slow speeds Shays, Climaxes, Heislers were all geared locos intended for lumber, mining, and other uses on minimal cost trackage. They weren't designed for high speeds! Basically minimal effort made to grading, roadbed, curves, bridging, and the like. In a lot of cases the basic topography was pretty extreme for locomotive use. Speeds had to be low, and in a lot of cases rod locos couldn't operate in the conditions. 

On Narrow Gauge "common carrier" roads the slow speeds were primarily a function of economics. The idea was to keep fuel, lubricant, wear and tear (loco maintenance) and other consumables costs down. The rail was kept as light as possible initially to keep initial costs down. Also, light rail can't support speed. Later most successful roads replaced with heavier rail as tonnage and passenger loads dictated. Management also had to deliver positive returns to the investors.

Also look at the very premise of Narrow Gauge:
These were roads built in regions that economically couldn't support Standard Gauge roads. Later, all the Narrow Gauge roads that had sparked adequate economic development were Standard Gauged.

Rod locos were essentially scaled down standard gauge equipment and were fully capable of high speeds (if the basic purpose of the loco wasn't specialized for slow speed, high tonnage hauling). 

The basic 4-4-0 American (1870's-1920's) was capable of 60 MPH but rarely ran that fast as most Narrow Gauge roads trackage simply wasn't designed or built to support such speeds! Also, management generally couldn't condone the fuel and consumable costs due to most roads traffic loads. Two of my roads of interest, the NPC and SPC (in California) had a few areas that could support moderately high speeds up to about 30-40mph (curvature, grade, commuter service, local express service). Generally they averaged 24mph due to station stops for passenger pick-up and refueling). Freight service was a slow 12mph average as dictated by economical reasons.

A book everyone interested in Narrow Gauge should have:
*"American Narrow Gauge Railroads"* by Hilton. It's basically one of the bibles on the subject.

CraigH


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