# Lionel 3360 Burro Crane refurbishment



## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Now that I've finished work on a 259E, it's time to move on to the next project on the bench. This one is a Lionel Burro Crane I picked up from Flyernut. This is a great addition to any layout. In full operation it can pull a couple of cars. Here's what it's supposed to do:

- Move forward and back. It has an actuator switch on the side that is activated when hitting the track actuators (part 3360-125). As it encounters each one it goes forward then back.

- There's another switch on the chassis. This engages the wheel drive motor for moving the crane, or disengaged the drive and engages the cab drive.

- When engaged, the cab drive will rotate the cab assembly. It will oscillate in 360dg unless you hold up the release tab on the rear of the cab.

- When you hold up that release tab, the cab stops at that point in the oscillation, and then the hook lowers and raises.

I'll point these various switches, etc, out in the photos. With my excellent photo editing skills. 

The issues with this crane are:

- It does mostly run, but not well. It really just needs a tear down to clean everything up and then lubrication to bring back to proper operation.

- The cab has a big crack in the rear. I don't know what happened to it, but it was rough.

I found a good cab on eBay, so I'm going to tear the whole thing down, clean it up and replace the cab. I hope to have it as good as new when done.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I sure do hope I didn't misrepresent the crane in any capacity!! From your description it appears the crane does have a lot of action to it.. Hope it all works out for you.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Nope, you didn't misrepresent at all! No worries. It just needs a good cleaning and lube to be back in tip top shape. It does have a few decades under its belt.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The T man would fix that little crack with some epoxy. :smokin:

Don't toss the old one, it would look good sitting on a flatbed car or sitting in the scrap yard with a tree growing through it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That crack will buff right out.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

I never get rid of any of the parts. I even save the old motor brushes in a drawer. You never know when they might come in handy.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Did you find another original cab or a reproduction?
Besides the crack that cab looks in decent shape for it's age.
I think it took a "whoops"* !%*!! it!*, at one time? :smokin:


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Things look worse in pictures, at least when I post pictures of my layout.

If that crack doesn't have glue in it, it may disappear once there is a little super glue or acetone in it and a good clamp job.

I have used hot melt glue as a clamp on things like this, then just peal it off.

I enjoy my Burro. It is a lot quieter since I oiled it.

You almost need 3 or 4 hands to re assemble them, but the effort is well worth it.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

I've messed with the crack, but it just won't disappear as much as I'd like. The cab I found is a reproduction, but you can't tell the difference between the two . . . other than the crack.

The original also has a crack around the screw on the back side. From what I've seen inside so far, I think it's been apart before. Probably for an earlier clean up.

Dave Sams - I do believe this will take three hands! I just wish my dog had a little more dexterity. He likes to watch, but is of no help at all.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

While working on my Burro crane I turned right to find this. My assistant was supposed to be taking notes, but he lost interest and became focused on the operation of the train.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Tonight has been a big night for the little Burro. I'll do a more complete write up of the tear down steps later, but here's the parts explosion:










And I found the worst culprits for the intermittent operation. Apparently, this was part of a Christmas layout at one point and the pine needles ended up in the chassis. Using my fine pliers I picked these out of various points in the gearing. They were held in place by the sticky grease.










Just taking those out will make a huge difference. I figure between those and cleaning out all of the old grease, this will be rocking and rolling once I get it back together.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

You're in deep now boy!

I'm curious to see how the reassembly goes. 

I rewound a motor this weekend, but didn't take enough pictures. 

I think my burro needs more lube. 

It can be quite noisy on my layout.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

I think it's the nature of these to be pretty noisy. I have many photos of the disassembly, and will be taking a bunch of the reassembly. When it's done I'll shoot a video of it in operation so you can compare sound.

I have some ideas on how to help quiet it down. One of my other hobbies is building audiophile grade speakers for myself and some other interested parties. A key component of that is minimizing cabinet coloration of the sound. I use products like Dynamat, and similar. I'm wondering if using some small pieces of that strategically placed in the cab and chassis will reduce the noise of the crane. It will help kill the vibrations of that plastic shell when the motor is running, and that shell acts like a speaker of the motor noise.

We'll see . . . I'll do an A/B video comparison and post it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those little vertical AC motors are all noisy, nature of the beast.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

The problem with the worm gear drive motors is that they are always trying to either screw the armature through the motor in one direction or the other. At the same time the worm gear is trying to 'walk' out of the driven gear. This puts a lot of force in at least two directions at a time. The little thrust washers wear out and the noise is caused by play.

If you can control the thrust surfaces (axial and radial) you can diminish the noise. this is why the thrust washer replacement works well in most cases.

Larger motors of this type have better thrust surfaces both in materials and tolerances.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Well, the noise is a bit better now. The thrust washers were in good shape, so I think this is as good as it gets.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Here's the tear down process for the little Burro:

- To remove the arm adjustment screw, just simply unscrew it all the way. Out she goes:



















- The two metal arms just unsnap from the boom. Take a bit of care so you don't twist the plastic and snap any of the plastic:



















- Then, just slide each of the rods up and snake them through the metal coupler:










- The coupler then just takes a little twist and comes out of the guide rails. You end up with:



















- There are two Philips screws that hold the cab. Unscrew these, and keep them safe. 



















- Then, just slide the cab off. It'll be held with some friction from the frame, but give it a bit of a pull and it will come away.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I never messed with a Burro Crane. The parts on the table is an all to familiar scene in my basement. 

The cracks give it character.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

- Now, it's time to pull the boom. The string is just knotted at the end, and you can slip the knot through the notch in the boom. No need to untie or cut it.




























- With that done the ends of the boom just unsnap from the frame. Again, be gentle when bending out the ends of the boom.










- Next up, remove the two screws holding the brush plate in place. Be careful since the brushes are held by some springs. They will be free to roam as you pull up the plate.



















- Now, you can lift out the armature assembly. Set it aside for future cleaning.




























- To make future reassembly easier, I labeled each of the wire connection points before I cut or desoldered them. Each point got a matching label - A to A, B to B and so on.










- With these labeled go ahead and cut or desolder each point. You'll have to snake the wires through the rotating assembly when you pull it from the frame. There is one Philips screw to remove from the pivot point.










- After removing that screw and then snaking out the 3 wires you'll be able to pull the assembly. Be careful to not lose your labels as you snake the wires.










- Be careful once you have it out. This gear set is spring loaded and only held in with the assembly in place.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Drool. 

I like the pictures.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

- Time to get that top plate off. There are two slotted screws to remove, but be careful. Once you pull the plate the couplers will also fall off. And if you're not expecting it they will run away. It's amazing how far they can bounce on a hard wood floor. 














































- Oh, not to forget the cab rotating gear. It's kind of important.  It just comes off when you pull the motor assembly, but remember the big hole goes up when you're reassembling. Down just doesn't work.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

- Yay, time to start cleaning. Break out your tooth brushes, pipe cleaners, rags, ScotchBrite, Goo Gone, and dish detergent. There's lots of old grease in this machine. Scrub it all away. The Goo Gone takes care it quickly without harming any of the metal or plastic. Using some on brushes you'll be able to clean out the old grease from the gear sets. Using the pipe cleaners you'll be able to get in all of those small holes and pivot points. Then, use a rag with Goo Gone to scrub it from the surfaces. With all of that done I then washed everything but the motor assembly in dish detergent. Again, scrub it all out with your tooth brush and sudsy water. This removes all of the old oils and any other dirt and grime from the decades of use.














































- Polish up the armature plate with the ScotchBrite and Goo Gone.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

- With everything clean and shiny, it's time for reassembly. As you put it all back together, make sure you lube each piece as needed. For the gear points I used Labelle's plastic safe grease, and for the motor and wheels I used their light oil.

When placing the top plate back on, don't forget to first replace the plastic side plate, and each of the couplers. Also, be careful to insert the switch tab. This may take some finagling.










- Once the top plate is in place and screwed back down, it's time to drop the motor assembly back in place. There are four pieces to this: First, set the gear assembly back in place. Make sure it's thrust bearing is there. Second, put the cab rotating gear in place with the big hole facing up. Third, put the cab mounting plate in place. Fourth, snake the wires up through the opening in the motor assembly. Now, carefully lower the motor assembly back on it's pivot point all the while being sure to guide that little gear set into it's proper hole. Yeah, this can take three hands to get it all right, but it will go together. Then, screw it back down with the Philips screw from earlier.




























- Now, it's just a matter of dropping in the armature. You'll need to spin it as you drop it in so the gears mesh. (Don't forget the lube!)

- From here assembly is straight forward. Resolder those cut wires at each of the labeled points. Before going further drop it on some rails and give it a test run. That will save you some agony if anything is wrong. 

- Now, replace the boom arm. This has to go on before the cab.

- Relace the string and hook on the boom arm.

- Drop the cab on. This can take some gentle persuasion to get it to fit over the mounting plate. Screw it down - very, very gently. No cracks, please!

- Replace the rod guide in the rails on the top of the cab.

- Relace the boom lift rods through the rod guide.

- Snap the boom lift rods back on the arm. Carefully, gently.

- Replace the boom adjustment screw.

- Time to take it for a test run!


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Here's some video action:


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

NICE!! Now I know why you didn't call me this moring!! You were too busy playing with that crane,lol!! Great job!!:appl:


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Bravo! Bravo!

Mine is just as noisy. It always has been to a degree, but a good oiling helped when I tore mine down this fall.

My gang cars, trolley and ballast tamper are just as bad. I like a lot of noise on my layout.

Thanks for the post. You spent a lot of extra time taking pictures and writing.

Much appreciated.


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## erkenbrand (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks! I learned all about taking photos when tearing down cars and amplifiers. It all gets so much easier when you have a reference.  I do dream of getting a real macro lens. I'm using a 50MM f1.8 now, and it doesn't quite do the job I want. 

But I'd rather buy more trains than a $1k lens.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Great job, and nice detail explaining How it all goes together. I cant believe the gears are plastic! Hope it has lots of stuff to lift!


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

The reason the gears are nylon is to reduce noise. This is also done on larger engines including cars (timing gears) with mixed success. What you gain in noise reduction you often lose in gear life.hwell:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

rkenney said:


> The reason the gears are nylon is to reduce noise. This is also done on larger engines including cars (timing gears) with mixed success. What you gain in noise reduction you often lose in gear life.hwell:


Well it doesn't reduce the noise much.
But hey, cranes are noisy anyway right?

I think the nylon gears are cheaper to make too?
Plus if something binds up I guess it is cheaper and easier to fix then replacing the armature assembly's worm?

Nice job, great pictures. 
It will/should help others in the future.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

*Bumping old thread back to life*

I'm hoping someone with service experience on the PW Burro is still active on this forum.
I took the cab off and it looks like the brush plate has never been apart, as the solder joints look perfect. Now I'm not sure if I should attempt to completely tear down the lower end of the crane, in order to clean and regrease it.
Unfortunately the original thread did not have any pictures.


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## B&O Forever (Nov 17, 2016)

Good work finding an old thread!

How is it working?

How does it sound?

If it sounds like gravel in a coffee can (as did mine) a tear down will reward you with quieter operation.


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## Pingman (Aug 18, 2015)

Very timely thread, Togatown, as I just got my 3360 out after many years of neglect with intention of servicing it and discovered it runs reliably forward and reverse, but the cab rotation and boom functions are inconsistent/hit or miss.

Hope we'll get some help--sure do miss the OP's photos.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Be careful when you remove the brushplate, there is a ball bearing that bears against the end of the armature and may or may not fall out. Part #50-102. Easy to lose.

If it doesn't fall out, there's a problem right there. Old dried up grease! You'll have to help it out (force) and clean it.


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

B&O Forever said:


> Good work finding an old thread!
> 
> How is it working?
> 
> ...


Other than shaking a lot when rotating, and sounding like gravel in a coffee can, seems to be good. The cab assembly seems to be sloppy mounted on the chassis, and when you remove it, the mounting bracket just seems to be sitting on top of the chassis with nothing holding it in place. 

I have built an F-3 out of a pile of parts, but I have to say this little crane intimidates me a bit. That's why I was hoping someone had pictures of a rebuild.
I really hate to tear it down if it has never been apart, but I am sure if the grease is 60 years old, it really needs it.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Do have the service manual? 

View attachment 3360Burro Crane.pdf


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

rkenney said:


> Do have the service manual?
> 
> View attachment 261729


Yes, I do have this in my Greenberg manual, thanks!

Do you know if the cab mounting plate just sits loosely on top of the platform, outside of the ring?


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Togatown said:


> Yes, I do have this in my Greenberg manual, thanks!
> 
> Do you know if the cab mounting plate just sits loosely on top of the platform, outside of the ring?


Yes with the cab removed the mounting plate sits loosely around the 'ring' which the cable thread is wound on. When the cab is installed with the fore and aft screws the plate is pulled up into the cab slightly and has less up and down play.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I was the one who sold Ryan that Burro crane last year or so. He seems to be AWOL from here, but I've driven past his house and he seems to be at home. I also spoke to one of the owners of GarGraves Trackage Corp, and they said he stops in every now and then...I'll have to check on him...


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

rkenney said:


> Yes with the cab removed the mounting plate sits loosely around the 'ring' which the cable thread is wound on. When the cab is installed with the fore and aft screws the plate is pulled up into the cab slightly and has less up and down play.
> 
> View attachment 261801
> 
> ...


Bob-

That is exactly what I was hoping to hear and see, thank you for that! I may tackle a complete tear down tonight, since the weather is bad. If so, I will update this thread tomorrow with my findings.

DT


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

rkenney said:


> Yes with the cab removed the mounting plate sits loosely around the 'ring' which the cable thread is wound on. When the cab is installed with the fore and aft screws the plate is pulled up into the cab slightly and has less up and down play.
> 
> View attachment 261801
> 
> ...


Bob-

Another question for you after I took the brush plate off last night, but did not go any further. Can I get to the lower gears for service without unsoldering all of the wiring? I'm hoping that I only need to disconnect the two wires on the top plate?


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Togatown said:


> Bob-
> 
> Another question for you after I took the brush plate off last night, but did not go any further. Can I get to the lower gears for service without un-soldering all of the wiring? I'm hoping that I only need to disconnect the two wires on the top plate?


As I recall the single motor mounting bolt that fastens the motor base keeps everything (gears) sandwiched between the platform assembly and the frame.

So yes you have to un-solder remove everything that interferes with access to that screw (field and brush plate).


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

rkenney said:


> As I recall the single motor mounting bolt that fastens the motor base keeps everything (gears) sandwiched between the platform assembly and the frame.
> 
> So yes you have to un-solder remove everything that interferes with access to that screw (field and brush plate).


Thanks again Bob. Now that the holidays are over, I'll get back to breaking it down this week and will keep you posted on how it goes.


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

*Burro Crane maintenance cont'd*

Had a chance to disassemble the Burro Crane last night. There was no hardened grease anywhere, in fact, there was very little lubrication at all on any of the works. Leads me to further believe that the crane had never been apart prior to this.


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## B&O Forever (Nov 17, 2016)

I'd say you are committed now!

I bet some lube in the right places and it will run like a champ.

Good luck.


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

B&O Forever said:


> I'd say you are committed now!
> 
> I bet some lube in the right places and it will run like a champ.
> 
> Good luck.


I agree, once I unsoldered all the wiring, there was no turning back. Its a pretty remarkable piece of engineering for sure. Only hope it still is when I reassemble it, :dunno:


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

*Shes alive again!*

Finally got the Burro reassembled last night. Runs so much quieter and smoother with fresh grease and oil.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

It looks good! 

Quiet too, I can't hear a sound!


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## Togatown (Nov 29, 2013)

rkenney said:


> It looks good!
> 
> Quiet too, I can't hear a sound!


Bob- Lol, thanks again for your help! The pictures and advice were invaluable.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Glad I was helpful, but I must say I found your pictures much more complete. Thanks for them!:smilie_daumenpos:


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