# Help needed to identify model manufacturer



## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Hello all,

I have this Burlington F7 (with nice details) and I have no idea who the manufacturer is/was. The underside simply says "Hong Kong". The plastic drive wheels are cracked but it still runs beautifully! When I first got it, the headlight was, well,... not. There was a light inside the body but it only illuminated the cab but not the headlight.

I am trying to find a replacement of the drive wheels. I tried the Bachmann and they did not fit.

Many thanks in advance!





























I removed the rear truck so we could see the internal gears...


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Don’t know the manufacturer, but I would be willing to bet that those detail parts were added by somebody, and did not come as built....looks like the wheels have traction tires as well.....all crude to todays standards....

Personally, I wouldn’t bother trying to make it better, but I realize that some people love to fix things, so all I can say is good luck to you.....


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## DavefromMD (Jul 25, 2013)

Possibly AHM?


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> Don’t know the manufacturer, but I would be willing to bet that those detail parts were added by somebody, and did not come as built....looks like the wheels have traction tires as well.....all crude to todays standards....
> 
> Personally, I wouldn’t bother trying to make it better, but I realize that some people love to fix things, so all I can say is good luck to you.....


😁 Yeah, I am one of those who love fixing things. I placed the one traction tire on the bottom right to keep the wheel together. It is really cracked. I tried to put a drop of CA in it and it held for a little bit. The details seems original as each of the wires seem to be in pre-engineered holes. What is interesting is the lens of the headlight is flat, like the prototype and not a convex lens one finds in many models.


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

DavefromMD said:


> Possibly AHM?


Thank you! I will look into it more.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

If you can’t find replacements and absolutely want that locomotive to run you have the option of northwest short line and their Stanton drive system. I have one on my pioneer zephyr and absolutely love it. Smooth as silk. The biggest issue is would the locomotive be worth putting over $100 into a drive unit to you. Not my decision but if it was me I would just put the shell on a different body like a blue box athearn or a more modern Bachman chassis. It will run better as well as pull better. All wheel drive and all wheel pick up are big things


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

I don't think that is an AHM import, but it's definitely not Rivarossi or Pocher. Possibly it's Tempo, or Model Power, or Tyco. But the Pitmann type open frame motor is not really a fit for those three either. Possibly one of those unbranded Hong Kong or Macao imports which would be my best guess.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I like the suggestion of putting the body on an Athearn chassis.....dependable mechanism, with all wheel power pick-up, and no awful traction tires....


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

What's awful about traction tires?


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Thank you all! I really appreciate the advice. I would probably place the shell over an Athearn chassis. Now to find an Atheran chassis...for a reasonable price. I have seen it go for $15 through $40!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> What's awful about traction tires?


They take away the ability to have all the wheels used for power pick-up, which is a huge minus in my book......


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I would say they are intermittent. They will still provide pickup while in contact with the side of the rail in curves. Six (or seven) wheels is still better than four. Never bothered any of my operations.

They also pull a lot more on grades.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Newbie HO Train chap said:


> Thank you all! I really appreciate the advice. I would probably place the shell over an Athearn chassis. Now to find an Atheran chassis...for a reasonable price. I have seen it go for $15 through $40!


eBay is going to be your friend. Just stay away from the rubber band drive also known as hiF I believe. Get an actual geared chassis and you’ll be good to go. I have a few of the athearn blue box f units and they’re all dependable. You could also get a b unit since the chassis is shared between the a and b units. That will at least get you running till you can try to fix the other drive but I would scrap it


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Jscullans said:


> eBay is going to be your friend. Just stay away from the rubber band drive also known as hiF I believe. Get an actual geared chassis and you’ll be good to go. I have a few of the athearn blue box f units and they’re all dependable. You could also get a b unit since the chassis is shared between the a and b units. That will at least get you running till you can try to fix the other drive but I would scrap it


Thank you!!! I appreciate the advice. It really is nice where people like you all share your knowledge with us newbies! Invaluable to us as we learn the hobby.

Thank you all again!


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm pretty sure that's a Life Like locomotive, though it'd be easier to tell with a full shoot off the side of the body shell.
You can see similar locos here. 








Life-Like F7 - HO-Scale Trains Resource


Among the original HO-scale diesel locomotive offerings from Life-Like in 1970 was this F7 offering.




ho-scaletrains.com




Your shell isn't pictured but others are.
LL are more associated with the "pancake motor" truck mounted motors, but I have a nearly identical drive on an early Lifelike F40PH. 

As others have said, an Athearn drive would be better since you'd have all wheels driving and picking up power, but if the gears aren't cracked it may be worth saving. Some ideas.
-a parts loco can probably be picked up for a couple bucks to get a new wheel. You could also remove the wheel, glue and clamp it and then reinstall. Might have to engage the hole...
-Traction tires are still sold on ebay
- After that, if you want to get crazy... There are motors sold on ebay for a couple bucks that will give you (in conjunction with adding some weight) more pulling power.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Life-Like is another very good possibility, and may be my brain-prompt when I first saw your drive-line. I have several Life-likes and Tyco F-3/7's tucked away in "never to be seen again" boxes.

But I wouldn't rule out a Varney frame, either geared or coiled spring belt drive. They are occasionally found on ebay at reasonable prices. I love the things, especially the selective belt drives. But yes, stay away from the HiF's with rubber band drives, (in my opinion) they are truly terrible. 










Were I you, I would just get that one running to it's best ability, stick it in a never to be seen again box and buy a reliable replacement.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

I would add that in terms of replacement parts, and possibly even a replacement frame, this is one of those cheap projects that may be best served by a train show or visit to a local train shop. Otherwise anything you buy online is going to cost you near as much to ship as it is worth. Could be a bit tougher due to Covid or Geography of course. 

Possibly even worth asking at a local shop if they've got any junkers in back you could take a look at. 

If you can't find anything, there's a guy occasionally on this forum who goes by "1rustycuda" that repairs these kinds of locos. He's not a frequent user, but might have parts.


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Eilif said:


> I'm pretty sure that's a Life Like locomotive, though it'd be easier to tell with a full shoot off the side of the body shell.
> You can see similar locos here.
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you! Yes, the gears are not cracked and actually in pretty good shape, despite the discoloration. Good to know that you had an F40PH with a nearly identical drive system. I can look for that as well. Tried gluing the wheels with CA and clamping it for 8 hrs (to make sure it cured). Installed it and ... heard a pop where the wheel cracked again. Sigh. You are correct. Probably have to enlarge the hole. 

Will keep searching....


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Eilif said:


> I would add that in terms of replacement parts, and possibly even a replacement frame, this is one of those cheap projects that may be best served by a train show or visit to a local train shop. Otherwise anything you buy online is going to cost you near as much to ship as it is worth. Could be a bit tougher due to Covid or Geography of course.
> 
> Possibly even worth asking at a local shop if they've got any junkers in back you could take a look at.
> 
> If you can't find anything, there's a guy occasionally on this forum who goes by "1rustycuda" that repairs these kinds of locos. He's not a frequent user, but might have parts.



There is a LHS about 25 miles from me and a bigger one about 70 miles away. That's what I get for choosing to live in rural, small town USA. However, I LOVE it here! You all have a great country with great people. People are all so nice!


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Newbie HO Train chap said:


> There is a LHS about 25 miles from me and a bigger one about 70 miles away. That's what I get for choosing to live in rural, small town USA. However, I LOVE it here! You all have a great country with great people. People are all so nice!


Glad you're enjoying small town USA. 
Definitely give your LHS a call and see if they have any junkers you could get a wheel from if repair with hole enlargement doesn't work.
Also, note that it is likely that any wheel with traction tire groove from most any LifeLike diesel will work as long as the wheel and axle is the same size. Especially when they settled on their pancake motors, they standardized alot of parts for cost cutting. If you want to be sure, post diameter of your axle and wheel and I'll check against mine. LifeLike F units, GP38-2's and F40PH's are ubiquitous in bargain bins and junk boxes.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I agree with eilif on the train show comment. We have one in the Chicago area called the great Midwest train show. Unfortunately there aren’t many train shows if any at all going right now


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Yes, I am awaiting the one to restart in south Chicago. I was advised by an avid collector from the Des Plains/Skokie area (north Chicago). I live in SW Michigan...where the weather does not seem to want to stop snowing anytime soon.


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

I have a friend that works security for the gmwts so when I hear it will be back up and going I’ll start a thread on here to let everyone that may be interested know


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

gmwts......?


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## Jscullans (Jul 8, 2019)

Great Midwest train show


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Newbie HO Train chap said:


> Yes, I am awaiting the one to restart in south Chicago. I was advised by an avid collector from the Des Plains/Skokie area (north Chicago). I live in SW Michigan...where the weather does not seem to want to stop snowing anytime soon.


I live in Chicago and the Great Midwest Train Show is indeed unparalelled. You could surely find a LL parts loco for a couple bucks there. I've also had very good luck at shows (2 or so a year I think...) put on by the Blackhawk Railway Historical Society and the Will County Model Railroad Association. 

As you are in Michigan, I highly recommend "Hobby Recycling" near Grand Rapids. It's probably quite a drive from you, but worth the trip They have a huge selection of used and older HO stuff at great prices. Might even be worth calling them just to see if they can mail you a wheel. 

If you find yourself in Chicago, Zientek trains is worth a trip too.


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

Eilif said:


> I live in Chicago and the Great Midwest Train Show is indeed unparalelled. You could surely find a LL parts loco for a couple bucks there. I've also had very good luck at shows (2 or so a year I think...) put on by the Blackhawk Railway Historical Society and the Will County Model Railroad Association.
> 
> As you are in Michigan, I highly recommend "Hobby Recycling" near Grand Rapids. It's probably quite a drive from you, but worth the trip They have a huge selection of used and older HO stuff at great prices. Might even be worth calling them just to see if they can mail you a wheel.
> 
> If you find yourself in Chicago, Zientek trains is worth a trip too.


I am just about 100 miles from GR and 95 miles from Chicago. We do go into Chicago often. I will certainly look up Hobby Recycling and Zientek! Thank you for the tips. I am so looking forward to going to my _*first*_ train show! Yeah, never got to go to one as I did not have a great interest then.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Got around to digging out some of my old Life-Likes. Not a motor match but some similarities.


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

rsv1ho said:


> Got around to digging out some of my old Life-Likes. Not a motor match but some similarities.
> 
> View attachment 554535
> View attachment 554536


Thank you for doing that. Yes, those are the pancake motors. The one I have is so elusive!


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Yes, Notice the clipped corners of the frames front and the ways the trucks are attached, also the tray type frame with the raised edges. I wonder if someone kit bashed the motor on there.


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

rsv1ho said:


> Yes, Notice the clipped corners of the frames front and the ways the trucks are attached, also the tray type frame with the raised edges. I wonder if someone kit bashed the motor on there.


Ahhh!!! Yes! The similarities are there! I can examine it more thoroughly. I really appreciate the education!


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

I think Eilif get the prize here, he was the first to tag it as Life-Like or at least with Life-like origins. 

Either way, I hope that you get it running up to your expectations, new drive-line or not.


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

My friend, a retired train shop owner says; "I'd bet on that being from Model Power." 
The gray retension ring being the primary clue.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That CN F unit on the right (#9162), looks like a Tyco to me.....Tyco made thousands of those with that cab number, plus the funny looking winterization hatch looks like Tyco.....

In fact, here is a pic fresh from the Tyco forum....


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Sorry, 9162 is Bachmann, other two are marked Life-like


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

The underside of the model in question looks very much like that of the Life-Like. So this morning, I realized I had an unpowered Power Model and looked into the trucks. The wheels were geared!!! They were slightly smaller than what I needed but the gears were of the same ratio and similar dimensions. The axle was also very similar (not perfect but similar). I popped them in and it ran!!!


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## MidwestMikeGT (Jan 4, 2021)

kilowatt62 said:


> My friend, a retired train shop owner says; "I'd bet on that being from Model Power."
> The gray retension ring being the primary clue.


He could well be correct!. The frame is very similar to the Life-Like and see above!


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Newbie HO Train chap said:


> The underside of the model in question looks very much like that of the Life-Like. So this morning, I realized I had an unpowered Power Model and looked into the trucks. The wheels were geared!!! They were slightly smaller than what I needed but the gears were of the same ratio and similar dimensions. The axle was also very similar (not perfect but similar). I popped them in and it ran!!!


Fantastic!

As for the Model Power. Ive not seen that drive on a Model Power loco, but it is possible there was some crossover. I believe both Model Power and Life Like have at times sourced items from Yugoslavia (probably Mehano factory), Hong Kong and China.


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## rsv1ho (Oct 16, 2019)

Possible. Even Rivarossi out-sourced from Austria/Yugoslavia, Tempo and Pocher but marketed through AHM. I have a lot of locomotives marked Macao, Hong Kong, China. Cheap and cheaply made but most run rather well. I would put the early Bachmanns, Tyco's, Life-likes, and Model Powers in that category.


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