# Broadway Limited H-10 Shutting Off



## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

Hello,

I have had a simple loop of track down with some switches and a small yard for over a year now. My locomotive has historically run fine at slow and fast speeds without shutting off or acting out of the norm.

Recently I have resumed work on my railroad and have been installing sidings. I have also got another locomotive, a Bowser VO-1000.

I noticed today (first time I have run since adding some more siding) that my H-10 is struggling to run. What I mean by this is it will run for a bit and acts like it is losing connection by shutting down and then turning back on. Sometimes I have to move it a bit. The problem seems worst over switches but has also happened on track with no joint nearby.

I must admit that with adding all the new sidings, my electrical work has not kept up and I have not added any additional feeder wires. While the mainline has not changed, would the addition of more track cause the DCC signal to drop enough to cause connection issues? 

As a side note, the diesel runs fine, but perhaps it is more tolerable of any voltage drops?

I used a basic multimeter and the track has right at 14.0 volts when nothing is running but seems to drop down to around 13.5 with one engine running.

I have been trying to test things as I build the railroad to ensure I have not messed anything up. This is the first time I have gotten worried something is wrong.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

It certainly sounds to me like you need more feeders, or your track is getting dirty. I would clean the track and add more feeders.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Are you relying on the joiners between the rails for continuity? If so, that's a classic error. They're great for mechanical alignment, but rather unreliable over the long term for electrical continuity.

Reasons? Poorly supported track elements that dip and peak as locomotives place their weight onto the other ends. Or, simply from wear 'n tear from disconnecting and reconnecting innumerably. They even get crud in there, anything from carpet fibers to dander, to skin flakes, bug poop, dust from the bottoms of shoes, etc.

Cure? Support the track on at least 1/2" plywood with stringers underneath on 15" centers, or on 1.5" extruded foam with the odd supporting joist/stringer below it. Or, solder many of the joiners. This is a bear with sectional length of 9", but with flex it's a cinch. 

You shouldn't be feeding more than about 6' of rails in either direction from any one electrical terminal at the track. Much further and your locomotives will begin to lag a bit.

Other possibilities: the tether male plug from the tender has begun to work loose in the locomotive's female receptacle, or it was never fully seated to begin with and is now showing how poorly. I use needle-nosed pliers to seat the tether fully. Takes great care not to pinch off one of the tiny wires at the male plug's rear surface.

Also, tracks do have to be cleaned now and then, particularly when performance slips and the loco isn't apparently to blame. Even then, the locomotive and tender's tire treads do need to be cleaned after about 2 hours of running. Takes but three minutes if you know what you're doing.


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## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

mesenteria said:


> Are you relying on the joiners between the rails for continuity? If so, that's a classic error. They're great for mechanical alignment, but rather unreliable over the long term for electrical continuity.
> 
> Reasons? Poorly supported track elements that dip and peak as locomotives place their weight onto the other ends. Or, simply from wear 'n tear from disconnecting and reconnecting innumerably. They even get crud in there, anything from carpet fibers to dander, to skin flakes, bug poop, dust from the bottoms of shoes, etc.
> 
> Cure? Support the track on at least 1/2" plywood with stringers underneath on 15" centers, or on 1.5" extruded foam with the odd supporting joist/stringer below it. Or, solder many of the joiners. This is a bear with sectional length of 9", but with flex it's a cinch.


I have every joint soldered - every single one.



mesenteria said:


> You shouldn't be feeding more than about 6' of rails in either direction from any one electrical terminal at the track. Much further and your locomotives will begin to lag a bit.


On the mainline I placed feeder wires every 6 ft., so that no portion was more than 3 ft. away from a feeder. I have not yet installed feeders on the sidings, but again, the problem occurred on the mainline.



mesenteria said:


> Other possibilities: the tether male plug from the tender has begun to work loose in the locomotive's female receptacle, or it was never fully seated to begin with and is now showing how poorly. I use needle-nosed pliers to seat the tether fully. Takes great care not to pinch off one of the tiny wires at the male plug's rear surface.


I did try to take out the plug and re-plug. The problem persisted for a moment and then I was able to run the locomotive around the mainline twice without issue. I ran out of time though and haven't had a chance to see if this was indeed the cause of the problems.




mesenteria said:


> Also, tracks do have to be cleaned now and then, particularly when performance slips and the loco isn't apparently to blame. Even then, the locomotive and tender's tire treads do need to be cleaned after about 2 hours of running. Takes but three minutes if you know what you're doing.


I have cleaned the track in the problem areas and still had some issues. I have not cleaned the locomotive but it probably only has 30 minutes on it total. I can see about cleaning it though.

Thanks for all the thoughts!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, it sounds like you're on the road to recovery.

Whenever a problem like this comes up, first clean your track and wheels thoroughly to eliminate that as a possible cause.

Then start looking for bad electrical connections or continuity, both in the track and in the equipment. I agree with misenteria's thumb rule -- more than 6' in either direction from a feeder and you at least have to entertain the possibility of needing more feeders, especially if you're relying on turnout point rails to transfer power.

Persistence typically wins out in cases like this. Good luck.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The suggestions for cleaning the track and loco
wheels are important.

So is making certain all electrical connections
are tight.

However, it is not unusual for a loco's track to
decoder electrical connections to fail. A wire
can break off a wiper, or be loose on the decoder.

If the cleaning and checking fail to improve your
situation take off the loco shell and see what can
be amiss. Test run the loco without the shell. 
Wiggle the red and black wires from the trucks.

Don


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## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

I am coming to the conclusion that the problem lies partially with the steamer and partially with the track.

After further analysis, the problem seems to be most persistent when the locomotive's first two drivers are on the dead section of a switch's frog. On a few of my switches, there seems to be a slight hump which is picking up the third driver enough to lose connection. The fourth driver has a tire and therefore not providing a pickup point. This explains why the problem seems most severe at slow speeds. I can run around the entire layout no problem at speed step 10, but I have a few problem areas at speed step 5.

I think the long term solution is going to be identifying problem areas one at a time and carefully trying to level out any humps by applying pressure with a flat head pliers.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

It's the locomotive/tender.

The locomotive could be entirely defective in terms of electrical pickup, meaning it wouldn't matter if it were running over the dead frog. But the tender has four axles that should keep the locomotive running. It doesn't, so there is a problem with pickup between the tender and the locomotive. The tether needs to be replaced, or the pickups to the wheels in the tender are defective, or a wire solder has broken inside the tender, including at the decoder.


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## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

I reached out to Broadway Limited with my problem and received this response. I wanted to post it because it was quite helpful and informative for this locomotive in case anyone else has the same problems:



> Sorry to hear you are having trouble with that engine, we will be happy to assist you.
> 
> So, on the tender one truck picks up right rail, and the other picks up left rail. There are small insulating rings where the axle meets the inside of the wheelface(s) on one side of each axle.
> 
> ...


Ultimately I am a bit embarrassed to say that after looking closer, the tender wheels were quite dirty. I honestly didn't even think about this because of how new the engine is and how little I have run it. But considering I did not clean the track after installing it, I suppose there could have been dirt on the tracks.

After carefully cleaning the tender wheels with acetone, the locomotive runs smooth as ever.

I am just glad it was an easy fix.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

It should be a rule of thumb.

If one loco stumbles, stops and starts and other
locos are running smoothly, the problem is with
the odd loco. It is, as the OP found, usually
poor electrical conductivity from track to decoder.
This includes all power pickup wheels (which must
be clean) but also the wires and other contacts
between the track and the decoder.

I wouldn't, however, use Acetone for around a layout.
Use alcohol for your wheel and track cleaning. 

Don


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I experienced the same problem with my first DCC locomotive awhile back.

After cleaning the wheels it ran like new.

I now clean all locomotive wheels after about 30 hours of running.

Good to hear that solved the problem.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

A common mistake people make is to assume that new equals clean. It doesn't. New is often cruddy with oils, dirt, and other junk from the manufacturing process, and sometimes you can add some corrosion to that if the loco sat in a box for a while. The same goes for track.

It's always a good idea to clean new acquisitions before putting them into service.


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## patrick.b (Mar 8, 2017)

CTValleyRR said:


> A common mistake people make is to assume that new equals clean. It doesn't. New is often cruddy with oils, dirt, and other junk from the manufacturing process, and sometimes you can add some corrosion to that if the loco sat in a box for a while. The same goes for track.
> 
> It's always a good idea to clean new acquisitions before putting them into service.


This is exactly what I will be doing for all future purchases.


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