# Curious if anyone ever tried this for small space continuous running?



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I’ve never tried it, in fact the idea never crossed my mind until today. _Peers into coffee with one cartoonishly wide eye_. Might be something in the water that did it.

We all know the dog bone design. A big space gobbling 180 turn, a long straight-ish double mainline section, and another real estate monster 180 turn. 
Has anyone ever tried, or seen it done in a magazine, to use one 360 degree circle of track with four TOs incorporated into the curvature, opposed facing with the double mainline coming in from both sides? This would, with the assistance of an auto-reverser, allow both 180 dog bone turns to occupy the same real estate/room corner, freeing up at a minimum 4ft x 4ft of space (in HO).

Granted it would look funny if the 360 circle was plainly visible, but if 60% and two TOs covered/hidden by dense trees and/or removable hill it’d probably look ok. 
With several newer members having only small spaces available, I thought the idea may solve some design problem for somebody.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm gonna need a diagram. Or some of that funny water you've been putting in that coffee, lol!


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> I'm gonna need a diagram. Or some of that funny water you've been putting in that coffee, lol!


Look at Longvallon’s tiny circle layouts. Mentally imagine four of those radius sections being diverging route turnouts completing the circle. The straight tracks of those would be the mainline connections. In other words, two 180 degree turns overlaid onto one another, sharing space and track.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Ah.... I see.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

I still don't see it, draw me a picture.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm visualizing a circle with 2 mainlines at tangents opposite each other??


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## Berrychon (4 mo ago)

Diameter is only 31"1/2 and it runs very well.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

I’ve been doing continuous running on shelf layouts for years with point to point auto reversers.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> I'm visualizing a circle with 2 mainlines at tangents opposite each other??
> View attachment 588978


Precisely. Although the TOs could be more angular maybe? Could even be a 90 with a diamond. Or could even swing two mainlines around to match the other two, offset by one TO length… so it could be in an alcove, stairway or closet kind of space with all four mainlines nearly parallel.
Regardless, it puts both ends of a dog bone in the same real estate. Ignore the 360 circle and notice the two 180s. These sort of turns always need a lot of space, and those with limited space would benefit.
Wasn’t sure if anyone ever tried it, or seen it used in such a way? Was just an interesting outside the box solution that might help some folks. Maybe it’s nonsense though. In most situations a typical loop would work. But sometimes pesky doorways get in our way too.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

OilValleyRy said:


> We all know the dog bone design. A big space gobbling 180 turn, a long straight-ish double mainline section, and another real estate monster 180 turn.
> Has anyone ever tried, or seen it done in a magazine, to use one 360 degree circle of track with four TOs incorporated into the curvature, opposed facing with the double mainline coming in from both sides? This would, with the assistance of an auto-reverser, allow both 180 dog bone turns to occupy the same real estate/room corner, freeing up at a minimum 4ft x 4ft of space (in HO).


And where does the double mainline go on either side of this big circle? They still need to turn around somewhere, or you just have stub lines radiating out from a circle.

You haven't solved the problem, you either just added a useless third circle in the middle, or simply converted the design to a standard circle/oval layout, not a dogbone anymore.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

If you want a much longer mainline run, you can stack the two reversing loops on top of each other (with one or both disappearing into a tunnel), but at the opposite end the line still needs to make a 180deg turn back.

There's no way around having a big circle or oval for a continuous run. The "dogbone" just lengthens the oval and pinches the midddle narrow. Once you have a long layout like that, you're either point to point or point to loop or have turnaround loops at both ends. Either way a continuous run is going to be loop to loop with turns at both ends. Unless you go around the walls and make the whole room the circle.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OilValleyRy said:


> Look at Longvallon’s tiny circle layouts.


It might help if you had supplied a link to the example.


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## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

Yea, OVRR: I’m glad Jeff understands this and I would like to. Any chance you can just sketch out a rough track plan and post a pic of it?
Thanks. 
Dan


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I think a double mainline that splits in the middle with a circle. Kind of like a roundabout but not really an intersection, just a feature.

But I agree, it doesn't seem to solve anything.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

prrfan said:


> Yea, OVRR: I’m glad Jeff understands this and I would like to. Any chance you can just sketch out a rough track plan and post a pic of it?
> Thanks.
> Dan


Jeff did in post #6. Although he did a straight shot through on all mainline connections whereas I was thinking more like having mainlines at 90 degrees, 45 degrees, or even 15 degrees offset from the others.

Using Jeff’s diagram above as an example, the left two mainlines rotated to point at the 4 or 5 o’ clock position with the other mainlines at 3.

It might be a solution for some tight spaces, such as tucked under a stairway or in a room where wall obstacles would otherwise make a corner see, unusable (i.e. tucked behind a water heater or in a corner with laundry machines on each side, breaker panel, water manifold, or an alcoved bedroom door, etc). Definitely a niche solution for utilizing an odd space.

The way I sketch things would probably make it more confusing lol


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

Take a look at carendt.com , the Mecca for layout builders tight for space.

FW


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

So far it looks perfect for a bumper car or trolley.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

_ had to look see if OP was made on 4/01._


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

scenicsRme said:


> _ had to look see if OP was made on 4/01._


Nope. Was 100% serious. It would’ve solved not only a spatial issue I had but also a tremendous financial waste in switching scales years back. 
The problem is evidently that I’m at a loss of how to explain it. And I cannot do a clear plan either as no track planning software exists for ipad.

It is an unusual idea though. So far outside the box nobody else seems to be making heads of tails of it. To a humorous extent as cv_acr demonstrated. JeffHurl was in the correct direction, but still inside the box. I’m not saying it’s revolutionary because it’s an entirely niche solution for a select situation of a small room with obstacles on all four walls. 
Actually someone posted a 3D plan here that was somewhat similar but involved grades instead of being level throughout.


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