# Made in USA vs. Made in China



## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

I just need to get this off my chest. I hate buying anything for my trains made in China. That's why I stick to vintage 1947 to 1951. All my loco's and diesels are Made in The USA. Now, I won't lie, some items on my layout are made in China such as cars, trees and farm equipment and they are less expensive and look pretty good. But, my Lionel stuff needs to be from the old days and made here. 
I wish Lionel would have stayed faithful to their roots and I think a lot of people would have supported that decision. I see some of the newer stuff and yes it has great affects and features, but for me something is missing. Guess I'm just being old fashion but to me it still represents a time when the best stuff was made in America. It amazes me when a 60 year old toy still works like new and will last another 60 years if taken proper care of.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I long for the days when almost everything here was made in America. It was not common to find foreign names on manufacturers' labels. The standing joke was a label that said "Made in Japan"...that pretty much guaranteed that it was junky.

Then American manufacturers discovered that junky sells because it's cheap, so they joined in, and quality of home-made products fell. Everything from cars to toys dropped in quality. Foreign tax plans and cheap labor without exorbitant union demands attracted American companies, which moved overseas.

Now we have our current situation where it's difficult, if not impossible, to find some products that are made here. China is the biggest exporter in the world. I searched through a Hobby Lobby store a couple years ago, and found one...*ONE*...item made in America!!!

It's damned sad, that's what it is.

But this is the model train section of the forum, so I too wish we could get great quality American-made trains. Just seems to not be possible, at least not at affordable prices.


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

I know we can't turn the clock back or go back to the good old days, but plenty of the old stuff is still available to be appreciated and enjoyed. To each his own, but for me, if it says Lionel it better be made here or I'm just not interested.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

We want to be paid well for our labour, better and more than they will accept in China....that is a large contributor to the situation........and of course, the companies that are in charge of making the stuff want to make maximum profits, so........hwell:


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## Northern Route (May 12, 2014)

The Japanese and German labor use to be cheap labor 50 years ago, now they build their factories in the United States because American labor is cheap labor. Also the American worker was also highest paid workers in the world. Then Reaganomics took hold in the early 1980's which started a new political trend in Washington to stab the American worker in the back. A couple of years ago the American worker was ranked 8th or less and going down hill. Isn't it great when our government policies work so well. 

Japanese made is no longer junk, it is top of the line and intends to stay there! 

My back is killing me, must have something to do with Washington!:smilie_daumenneg: :rippedhand:and :sold:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

WOW! There's been a wholesale move of manufacturing to China and you're blaming Reagan? That one sure comes out of left field!

Maybe the fact that the American worker was the highest paid worker had something to do with the move. For many manufacturing companies, labor is the biggest chunk of their expenses. In order to stay competitive with all the foreign goods coming in, they have to manage costs. Typically, you start with the biggest cost driver...


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## sanepilot (Mar 11, 2012)

*score one for John*

You`re right,John. Who can we blame besides ourselves? Everybody but ourselves.We`ve turned this country into a hodgepodge of useless workers. We had 378 workers and only about 10% worked.They laid off 180 workers and kept the worst ones. What happened the plant went downhill in about a year.They tried to get back some of the ones they forced into retirement. didn`t work.Like Judge judy says"only in america".

I luv it,sanepilot


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

We invent it, then they make it and sell it to us.


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## Northern Route (May 12, 2014)

I am not blaming Reagan for all of our problems. If you read my post closer you will read that Reaganomics started a trend Washington to make policies that give companies tax breaks and tax loop holes to move their business out of the country while creating tax penalties for companies that choose not to do business here. We have always imported goods from other countries because of cheap labor or from other countries because of the quality, but since Reaganomics politicians created scores of decisions to make it harder to manufacture goods in America. That includes all administrations since Regan. It's not the well educated or specialized trained technician that is taking a beating, which incluedes most people in this hobby, it is the people who can't afford or have access to higher education, and college is not for everyone, those are the people that are getting hurt and there are a lot of them.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Fire21 said:


> Now we have our current situation where it's difficult, if not impossible, to find some products that are made here. China is the biggest exporter in the world. I searched through a Hobby Lobby store a couple years ago, and found one...*ONE*...item made in America!!!
> 
> It's damned sad, that's what it is.


Another caveat, China has a very high demand for, get this one, American made products. Yup, that's right they ship us their crap and want our stuff. Go figure eh.

Carl


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Really, Gentlemen. If we want to have a rational discussion about economics, international trade, and business practices, then by all means, lets go dig out some facts and have that discussion. But to throw out uninformed, xenophobic comments is just wasting everyone's time. If I want that, I'll go listen to talk radio.


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## Northern Route (May 12, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Really, Gentlemen. If we want to have a rational discussion about economics, international trade, and business practices, then by all means, lets go dig out some facts and have that discussion. But to throw out uninformed, xenophobic comments is just wasting everyone's time. If I want that, I'll go listen to talk radio.


Your Right and my apologies.


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

This obviously hit a nerve so I'll bring it back to my original point. I love the vintage trains and that's what I collect because I know they were made here at a time when the US produced the best quality stuff be it toys, tools, cars and everything else. Not only was it well made but had style and substance. They don't reproduce the locomotives of the late 40's and early fifties because they were mostly metal, not plastic. Were real loco's made of plastic in those days?
I love to feel the weight of a 675 or 2025 because it reminds me of the grandness of the real thing.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Well there is something still made here, I just got a new Digitrax DB150 booster made in USA.
Checked my Zephyr, USA. :smilie_daumenpos:

Magic


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> But to throw out uninformed, xenophobic comments is just wasting everyone's time. If I want that, I'll go listen to talk radio.



So you disapprove of expressing a fear or dislike of people from other countries (which comment I didn't find by the way), But your afraid of talk radio!

What makes your time so important? Truth is your opinion is just based on disparaging others opinions that do not agree with your own and is just as devoid of facts.:smilie_daumenneg:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have to say Bob, you do have a point.


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## Northern Route (May 12, 2014)

People from other countries who read this post probably chuckle, because they know we forget how good we have it in this country. What makes this country so great is our individual freedoms, not our economics, which is a byproduct of those freedoms. Besides the Chinese make some really nice trains and a lot of good model railroad products are still made in America.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I try to buy Made in the USA products all of the time, not just model railroad supplies. A lot of times there isn't a choice, but when there is, I am willing to pay more if necessary to buy the American made products.


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

If a company wants to move out of the USA, fine. But I see no reason to give them tax breaks/credits/incentives.
Local radio tax guru says that BK will be loaded with Horton's debt thereby reducing BK's 
US fed tax liability. I'm going to watch and see. 
btw the majority stake holder of BK is 3G Holdings, a Brazilian investment firm


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Actually BK bought Canada's Tim Horton's, and the resulting operation will be based here in Canada. 

BK claims the corporate taxes are too high in the U.S., and that is why they did it......

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-burger-king-agree-to-merger-deal-1.2746948


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Just to put things in perspective, I know I live out in the boondocks of the USA, but I never heard of Tim Hortons before this deal with BK made the news. I have traveled large parts of the American west, but again, never have I seen nor heard of Hortons.

Now, the info says the merger will make BK/Hortons the 3rd largest fast food vendor in the world. With what I read of Hortons, I would think they are more a snack shop/coffee house rather than a fast food restaurant. I saw nothing of sandwiches, salads, or the like. So I question the statement that there would be more than 18,000 restaurants. Seems there would still be 13,667 restaurants and 4546 snack shops. 

Am I being too picky?


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

From the link in Old Hobo's post

"But Burger King already managed to get its tax rate down to *27.5 *per cent last year, company filings show. Tim Hortons paid 26.8 per cent tax in Canada last year, according the its annual report."

Now if anyone believes that any corporation actually pays 35% in fed tax I have this wonderful bridge for sale. As I said earlier that BK will be loaded with Horton's debt thereby reducing BK's US fed tax liability.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Fire21 said:


> I never heard of Tim Hortons before this deal with BK made the news. I have traveled large parts of the American west, but again, never have I seen nor heard of Hortons


I know I will catch it for this, but the reasons you never heard of Tim Horton's (company started by Tim Horton, NHL's Toronto Maple Leaf/Buffalo Sabres hockey player - 1949 to 1974) are: 

1) You are not Canadian, eh?
2) As a typical American, you may not know about anything beyond what goes on in the U.S.A.......?

Now, let the (my) crucifixion begin......:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> I know I will catch it for this, but the reasons you never heard of Tim Horton's (company started by Tim Horton, NHL's Toronto Maple Leaf/Buffalo Sabres hockey player - 1949 to 1974) are:
> 
> 1) You are not Canadian, eh?
> 2) As a typical American, you may not know about anything beyond what goes on in the U.S.A.......?
> ...


You forgot:

3) There are so many crisis in this country you don't even care where they chow down across the border.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> 1) You are not Canadian, eh?
> 2) As a typical American, you may not know about anything beyond what goes on in the U.S.A.......?
> 
> Now, let the (my) crucifixion begin......:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Probably the main reason is that it's cold enough here in Wyoming during the winter, so I don't even bother to pay attention to what's up north of the border...eh?

 :laugh:


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The cold could very well be the reason, for sure.........

By the way, do you know the difference between an American and a Canadinn?

Well......a Canadian is simply an unarmed American with health care........


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

*USA vs. Cihna*

I can't deny that the modern stuff made in China can be really nice and sometimes close to original Lionel, but most times they are not quite as good. For instance, they use plastic where original Lionel used metal. Also, the idea of running a train that some guy, who may no longer be with us, enjoyed as a kid gives me a mental satisfaction. 
I guess it's just nostalgia, but when a company goes offshore they are not the same company to me and will never again produce the beautiful quality products they made here.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I think that even if they were still made in America, they would be plastic today, not metal......IMHO.


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

*USA vs. China*

I agree, the good old days are gone forever.


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

I generally stay out of these type discussions because I'm usually not well informed enough to make an intelligent statement, but here goes: 

Chinese stuff is a way of life. Americans want their stuff (and there's oh so MUCH of it) and they want it cheap. There is no other way to get it than to bring it across the ocean. Chinese stuff used to suck but now it's pretty nice. I'll admit - Tyco and Bachmann from the 70's and 80's were pretty grim. 
Athearn, an all-American company, now produces (or has stuff produced for them) in China and its much nicer than the American made Athearn stuff of yore. To long for nostalgia is one thing, but to say that American built stuff of the 40's - 50's - 60's is better is just plain wrong. Zamac framed locomotives, anyone? Warped and rotted into uselessness by now. Not better than Chinese stuff. 

Everybody rants and raves about how awesome their Kato built SD40-2's are, and they're right. Granted, Kato is Japanese, not Chinese. Even Stewart Hobbies (now Bowser), who once was an American company through and through, uses Kato drives and Buehler (German, I think) motors. If America could make stuff as awesome as China, and at a competitive price, then yes, American stuff would be great. Then we Americans could have our tons and tons of stuff made by American companies at a cheep price. Anyway, the only way to change any of this is by voting with your dollars. When American stuff is as nice as, and as affordable as imported stuff, then I'll start buying it. Until then, I gotta stretch my leisure-time dollars as far as everybody else, and if Chinese or Japanese sourced suppliers are the only way, then so be it. 

Just my .02


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

*USA vs. China*

I can't argue with any of your points, but when I run my 2026, 2023, 675, 2025 or 6220 bell ringer diesel it takes me back to my childhood when life was simpler. After all, isn't that the sentiment that drives this hobby.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Intresting stuff to say the least. Newtown, I get it. When america was in its prime manufacturing days, stuff was well built. Today, it dosent last past its warrantee. As for why america lost its jobs, its actually simple. We moved ahead in the technology sector, etc. Americans produce less physical goods but add a lot to the technology and research aspect. Thats why people still make money here. If we lost industry and didn't make it up in other areas we would be in major trouble. Nothing is built like it was in the past. And yes, things are cheaper now. Years ago we had , one black and white tv, one car for a family, one telephone, times were different too! And to blame Reagan is blasphemous in my book. Give me some examples of how his economics added to this? Under his presidency we prospered. Clinton , mostly stayed the same course. That is except for the banking regulations that sent the economy downward to the recession.


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

*Lost jobs*

What I've witnessed in the last 40 years is the closing of thousands of small factories and businesses throughout small town America. These were places that employed common folks and allowed them to make a living and support their families. Loss of this meager existence turned into dependency, rise of drug use and an increase of crime. These towns that were once good places to live and grow up in now foster a sense of despondency and helplessness. It's a sad story and in my opinion the decline of America. This is still a country of opportunity but not for everyone. The average manual laborers lost their futures to other countries and I find it very disturbing that our government let it, no, caused it to happen.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You want Made in the USA?

The Super-Chuffer Smoke & Lighting Enhancement for O-Gauge Steamers

Buy some of these, I'll be very happy!


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

One thing that is often overlooked in discussions of this type is the effect of environmental regulations on manufacturing in this country.I am originally from the area now referred to as the "rust belt". Large and small industries alike left the area when they were faced with modernizing plants to meet environmental standards when they found it would be cheaper to move than to modernize.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You want Made in the USA?
> 
> The Super-Chuffer Smoke & Lighting Enhancement for O-Gauge Steamers
> 
> Buy some of these, I'll be very happy!


John,

I just saw a video review of your smoke enhancer.
It received much praise and complimentary comments.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

rogruth said:


> One thing that is often overlooked in discussions of this type is the effect of environmental regulations on manufacturing in this country.I am originally from the area now referred to as the "rust belt". Large and small industries alike left the area when they were faced with modernizing plants to meet environmental standards when they found it would be cheaper to move than to modernize.


Excellent point. I always forget that aspect of the whole complicated thing. It's hard to make a profit when half of your profits are being used to keep up with regulations.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And in China, there are no such environment rules......


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

*Environmental rules*

Good point. I used to buy re chromed bumpers for cars and what costs $800 dollars here was $200 from Mexico. These countries don't care what they do to their land and water.


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You want Made in the USA?
> 
> The Super-Chuffer Smoke & Lighting Enhancement for O-Gauge Steamers
> 
> Buy some of these, I'll be very happy!


This needs to be moved to Product Promotion, same as you've done to product posts by others so many times in the past.


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

Touche!


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## PhillipL (May 5, 2012)

Folks,

If you don't like stuff made in China, contact the manufacturers and tell them! It is the companies such as Athearn that decided to move their production to China! Tell them you won't buy their products unless they move production back here. It can be done here just look at Kadee. 

I am primarily a European model railroader and the same issues are going on there as well except that the companies still made some of there items in Europe. I try to limit my purchases to those items. I have discovered small manufacturers that still make everything in Germany such as Tillig and Auhagen. I pay a little more but I know my purchase is helping workers who are paid a fair wage and who live in a democracy.

The bottom line is that "change" has to start with us. It is all about money.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I do like some of the Chinese food. 
But that is in a way, Made in the USA.:smokin::thumbsup:


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## wiley2012 (Dec 8, 2012)

Yes, it seems a lot of goods are nowadays made in China.
BUT, sometimes it can be done right. If I recall, Bachmann and Athearn opened up their own Chinese plants to ensure higher-quality products (better than when Bachmann's stuff was made in Hong Kong!)

Also, don't forget the Pola building kits are made in Germany. But to me there's not much difference than a competing company's kit made in China.
For a while, TYCO's products seemed to come from all over the world. The locomotives, cars, power packs and many accessories were made in Hong Kong (and this resulted in TYCO's locomotives getting crappy, with that PowerTorque motor), but they had track made in Austria and building kits made in Germany. I also remember in their waning years, a lot of the stuff found in their train sets was made in Yugoslavia or Slovenia (they would use Mehano locomotives and rolling stock).


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

*USA vs. China*


The most important reason is that we need jobs here in America. I want to know that when I buy something it helps employ a fellow citizen. Let the other countries take care of their own. Companies need to get the message from us that if you want to sell it here make it here and pay your employees a livable wage with benefits.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Newtown Joe said:


> Let the other countries take care of their own


They are...... those Chinese companies are bidding on making the train stuff (the lowest bidder wins, as the "American" companies wnat to spend the least to make the most), and the winning bidder gets the contract, allowing them to pay their people (taking care of them).

And let's not kid ourselves, when all the stuff is made in China, we will still buy it, as there will be nothing else worth buying. Either that, or find another hobby that has the stuff made in America.....and good luck with that as well......


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## Newtown Joe (Jan 30, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> And let's not kid ourselves, when all the stuff is made in China, we will still buy it, as there will be nothing else worth buying. Either that, or find another hobby that has the stuff made in America.....and good luck with that as well......


If we stopped the hobby by refusing to buy anything not made here, see how fast those companies reopen their factories here.

We know there is zero chance that will ever happen.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That would be like not buying gas for your car from the Arabs......they'll just sell it to someone else, and it wouldn't bother them at all......ain't gonna happen, we are addicted to oil......

And trains......

No, I don't think the manufacturers would even want to come back and make there stuff in N. America......too many rules, regulations, taxes, etc......they would have to raise the prices so much that we wouldn't want to buy, and we'd ***** and complain about it........the prices are high enough as they are....

Of course, IMHO as per usual......


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## ChimanTang (Nov 8, 2014)

As a production model train foundries, although I do not for any product Lionel OEM
, I want to say Made in China is not so bad. 
Any product we manufacture is all through the specific test.
Workers manufacturing process is also quite serious.
















Although said Made in China is cheap representative, but the process of our manufacturing is no relaxation.
As long as the product is good enough , I feel you do not need a manufacturing destination distress.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

ChimanTang said:


> As a production model train foundries, although I do not for any product Lionel OEM
> , I want to say Made in China is not so bad.
> Any product we manufacture is all through the specific test.
> Workers manufacturing process is also quite serious.
> ...


All of which ignores the fact that the MONEY stays in China!:smilie_daumenneg:


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

ChimanTang said:


> As a production model train foundries, although I do not for any product Lionel OEM
> , I want to say Made in China is not so bad.
> Any product we manufacture is all through the specific test.
> Workers manufacturing process is also quite serious.
> ...


No doubt that China can put out a good product at a fraction of the price in which it can be produced here in the US.

ChimanTang - what's the average daily income of those workers and do they get any kind of healthcare benefits?

I'd like people to understand what buying at the cheapest price point does to labor costs. (everything else in there is a commodity bought at essentially global prices - plastic, transistors, steel, etc.) labor/benefits is the only variable.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

rkenney said:


> All of which ignores the fact that the MONEY stays in China!:smilie_daumenneg:


This is my argument when it comes to cars and some other products. Those that have foreign brand names have built factories (assembly plants) here in the U.S., and do employ American workers, but where do the corporate profits go?...To the home country! Yes, Americans have jobs, but they are working to support other countries that profit from our labor. If more Americans would buy cars from American-based companies, then the profits would stay here. :appl:

I just bought a Ford F-150. The tag says it is made from 75% American/Canadian materials, and it was assembled in Kansas City. I kinda do begrudge that 25% that's non-American, but at the same time, I must realize that the world today operates on a global economy. :stroke:

And that brings us back to my first paragraph. We are participating in a global economy, so we must expect to accept non-domestic products. Above I said, "...they are working to support other countries that profit from our labor." In a global economy, everyone is doing that! After all, everyone wants to earn a living. :dunno:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ChimanTang said:


> As a production model train foundries, although I do not for any product Lionel OEM
> , I want to say Made in China is not so bad.
> Any product we manufacture is all through the specific test.
> Workers manufacturing process is also quite serious.
> ...


Soon I think China's workers will demand more freedom and money to go with it. :smokin:
What I don't like about China is China's unfair trade practices of violating the Trade Act of 1930. And the dumping of certain products onto the market cheaper. Imports from China are aggressively subsidized by the Chinese government and dumped in the U.S. market at prices way below fair value. Tires is one of those products. I will add that though our tires made here cost twice as much, they last 3 times longer than the cheaper Chinese brand. Consumer report just did tests comparing tires. As far as wearing out, you have to buy 3 sets of the cheaper Chinese tire compared to 1 set of U.S. tires. 
So in the long run we are better off buying our tires at the more expensive price. Cheap....is not necessarily better. 
But tell that to our consumers most just see the cheaper $$$ sign and run with it.


But that is a whole different topic from what I wanted to add here.

Instead I will say Hello Chimantang, welcome to the site.
It looks like your company is fairly new? You started up in 2013?
Your company has high ratings I see. :thumbsup: 
http://www.aftoys.com/en/#about




You make marklin HO?
Where does the O go?

They look like nicely detailed locomotives.

HO this is made for Marklin?








O gauge? Who are these made for?
I like the detail.








O?








HO, Marklin?








Why don't you start a thread in the product promotion forum section, it would be interesting to learn more about the company and the train making process. Promote it a little?

You don't get into the motor building part right?
Do you make any N or Z scale too?

I see that you may model something also? 
You list HO, N & Z in your profile, do you have a layout too?
Start a layout thread if you do, if you want.

Tell me on your company picture here, is that graffiti on your gate?
You know what graffiti is right?


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Newtown Joe said:


> If we stopped the hobby by refusing to buy anything not made here, see how fast those companies reopen their factories here.
> 
> We know there is zero chance that will ever happen.



And when full production comes back to the states and the models are now being assembled using labour at $10-15/hour plus benefits instead of $1.5/hour how many $100 boxcars are you buying for your layout?

Yeah, that's what I thought....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

cv_acr said:


> And when full production comes back to the states and the models are now being assembled using labour at $10-15/hour plus benefits instead of $1.5/hour how many $100 boxcars are you buying for your layout?
> 
> Yeah, that's what I thought....


Question is, how many will *YOU* be buying? Yeah, that's what I thought.... 

Or is this one of those do as I say, not as I do moments?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Strange comment John....I don't see where he was telling anyone to "do as I say, not as I do".....

I certainly won't be buying any $100 boxcars either.....maybe someone should do a poll on that.......


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Question is, how many will *YOU* be buying? Yeah, that's what I thought....
> 
> Or is this one of those do as I say, not as I do moments?


Excuse me? I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make John.

People ***** about manufacturing in China, and they also ***** about high prices. Well, the increased labour cost of doing all of the same assembly work here will only greater increase the price of things. That's the reality and the reason things get done over there.

You guys talking about boycotting anything not made in the USA are living in a dream world.


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## Fackler Rebel (Oct 26, 2013)

Let me throw my two cents in. My little layout, John may remember the picture I posted with all the trestles and turns, then again maybe not, is all made in the USA. I have blue jeans in my closet made in the USA, the canoe in my garage was made in North Carolina, the wife and I both drive Fords, yes I read the previous posts. The point is, if you are not all about, don't remember how to spell convienence, then you can find lots of products made in the USA and competitive too, price wise. I will pay more for a product made in the USA as it keeps some other American employed.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And good for you.....now if 100% of Americans felt the same way, and went to the same lengths as you, then things would change.....but until then.....


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

cv_acr said:


> Excuse me? I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make John.


The point I was trying to make is your sarcastic comment was totally unnecessary. I guess you didn't like the same coming back at you.

You can make your point by simply stating the opinion, you don't have to have an "in your face" comment to go along with it. Add to that he already stated it wasn't going to happen for obvious reasons, I fail to see what point you were trying to make either.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Unfortunately - there are certain things you simply CAN'T buy American made any more, however everyone CAN and SHOULD make an effort to support their local economies as much as POSSIBLE.

That goes for Americans, Japanese, Chinese and Canadians.

The biggest gripe I have about the whole import/export thing is that commodities imported to the USA are rarely, if ever tariffed, yet exports to most countries FROM the USA are usually tariffed (especially China, Japan, etc.)


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ChimanTang has come back and said nothing. :dunno:
An all female work force? :thumbsup: I see one guy that must be ChimanTang the bossman?
I wonder what they are assembling there in his pictures? 

I took the pictures right off his site, I guess he makes them mainly for Marklin?
I wonder why he won't say anything, trade secrets? Heck it is all on his site? I wonder who the the O gauge shells go to?

I wonder if that is graffiti on the gate? I kind of thought China would be void of any kind of graffiti?

I wonder what kind of modeling he does?

Leaves you wondering a lot huh, oh well?:smokin:


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

big ed said:


> ChimanTang has come back and said nothing. :dunno:
> An all female work force? :thumbsup: I see one guy that must be ChimanTang the bossman?
> I wonder what they are assembling there in his pictures?
> 
> ...


His post seemed to indicate he thought our concern was that we believed the products coming from China to not be of adequate quality.

I have no doubt good products can and do come from China (in some cases it's crap, but others it's just as good as anything else).....or for that matter from anywhere else. 

I think this thread is more about the impact of the globalization of industry and the flight of good industries from American shores for cheap labor to keep prices low for the American consumer.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

sstlaure said:


> His post seemed to indicate he thought our concern was that we believed the products coming from China to not be of adequate quality.
> 
> I have no doubt good products can and do come from China (in some cases it's crap, but others it's just as good as anything else).....or for that matter from anywhere else.
> 
> I think this thread is more about the impact of the globalization of industry and the flight of good industries from American shores for cheap labor to keep prices low for the American consumer.


I agree with most of that. One area which is debatable. "the flight of good industries from American shores for cheap labor to keep prices low for the American consumer" which isn't really true, look at things like iphones, their prices reflect a massive profit margin (something on the order of 300% I once read) and the corporate profits. Yes, making it here costs a bit more, but it results in higher wage jobs allowing people to be able to pay more. 

There is no easy answer to appease all involved. No matter what someone is going to feel "shortchanged" but shortchanging the people working who actually buy the products is a recipe for disaster.

Carl


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