# What 332 engine is this specifically?



## rvpinkey

So my father has collected a massive amount of s scale trains that i guess he couldnt afford as a boy and went buck wild as an adult, he knows next to nothing about them from a collectors PoV. Things like condition and the fact that "paint scratches are bad" dont even register on his radar. Fortunately i am into a hobby of my own so im able to somewhat tell him "no dad this is def not E condtion" when he thinks everything is....

i digress....

i have many cars im learning about through studying books about all of the dif trains and such and there is this one engine i cant figure out due to lack of literature about it.

a 332 steam engine. here are pics....













so im aware there are many dif makes to this train that change the value greatly so im simply confused/wondering what one this is.

would love some help guys


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## tjcruiser

Perhaps some info to identify via these old catalogs ...

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/Gilbert Catalogs.htm

TJ


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## rvpinkey

tjcruiser said:


> Perhaps some info to identify via these old catalogs ...
> 
> http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/Gilbert Catalogs.htm
> 
> TJ


i have one that has a list of things but i dont even know if my engines a DC or AC

the list is not set up for someone who doesnt know the trains to know what the parts are.


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## tjcruiser

Most (all???) Flyer trains run on AC on two-rail track. Though technically, an AC train will run on DC power, too. But NOT the other way around ... DC cannot run on AC.


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## rvpinkey

tjcruiser said:


> Most (all???) Flyer trains run on AC on two-rail track. Though technically, an AC train will run on DC power, too. But NOT the other way around ... DC cannot run on AC.


well im aware that DC is direct current and im inclined to think this train is in fact DC from what i can gather online from sources such as http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3410273 where i compare my pics but it be nice to be SURE when pricing this as the dif is rather massive in worth from AC to DC

it has 2 wires connecting the cars.... is this something ONLY on a DC unit?


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## Reckers

Rvpinkey, welcome to the forum! The 332 was produced from 1946 thru 1949 and was called the "Challenger" after the Union Pacific passenger train of the same name. Treat it gently and with respect, as it's not the run-of-the-mill locomotive. The Union Pacific shield was added after 1946: now we're down to 1947, 1948, or 1949. As a backup detail, the 1946 version had silver lettering instead of white, and said "Union Pacific" instead of "American Flyer Lines".

The 1947 version was AC and had the reverse unit in the tender. If your tender is empty, you have the 1948 DC version: the two-wire comment suggests this is what you have. Lay down a soft towel and turn her over: there should be four small screws in the four corners of the metal plate that forms the floor of the tender. Remove the four screws and separate the plate enough from the plastic shell to peer inside. You should have a weight inside there, either metal or plastic impregnated with metal and sort of U shaped, taking up a lot of the car: ignore that. If you have a mechanism in the tender about the shape of a 9-volt battery with wires in the middle of the tender, you have an AC locomotive. If you have two wires only, each starting at the floor of the car (each above a set of wheels) and running straight through to the locomotive without stopping, you have the DC version. The 1948 Type 3 DC is probably what you have, based on the description and pics.

The 1949 Type 4 had white stripes added to the running board of the locomotive and were mostly DC.

The year 1950 brought the 332AC, as opposed to 332, and the 332DC, both white-striped and marked clearly as AC or DC. 


I hope that helps!

Sincerely,


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## rvpinkey

Reckers said:


> Rvpinkey, welcome to the forum! The 332 was produced from 1946 thru 1949 and was called the "Challenger" after the Union Pacific passenger train of the same name. Treat it gently and with respect, as it's not the run-of-the-mill locomotive. The Union Pacific shield was added after 1946: now we're down to 1947, 1948, or 1949. As a backup detail, the 1946 version had silver lettering instead of white, and said "Union Pacific" instead of "American Flyer Lines".
> 
> The 1947 version was AC and had the reverse unit in the tender. If your tender is empty, you have the 1948 DC version: the two-wire comment suggests this is what you have. Lay down a soft towel and turn her over: there should be four small screws in the four corners of the metal plate that forms the floor of the tender. Remove the four screws and separate the plate enough from the plastic shell to peer inside. You should have a weight inside there, either metal or plastic impregnated with metal and sort of U shaped, taking up a lot of the car: ignore that. If you have a mechanism in the tender about the shape of a 9-volt battery with wires in the middle of the tender, you have an AC locomotive. If you have two wires only, each starting at the floor of the car (each above a set of wheels) and running straight through to the locomotive without stopping, you have the DC version. The 1948 Type 3 DC is probably what you have, based on the description and pics.
> 
> The 1949 Type 4 had white stripes added to the running board of the locomotive and were mostly DC.
> 
> The year 1950 brought the 332AC, as opposed to 332, and the 332DC, both white-striped and marked clearly as AC or DC.
> 
> 
> I hope that helps!
> 
> Sincerely,


oman thank you very much!


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## tjcruiser

Excellent explanation, Reck ... well done!

TJ


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## Reckers

No problem---glad to help. Best of luck on that engine: it's a beauty!

Teej, I'd like to claim I knew all that off the top of my head, but I can't: I keep the manual by my pc!


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## THE TYCO MAN

Thats a nice find and a nice engine! The 4-8-4's are in high demand it seems becuase I never see one sell less than $100 anywhere unless its trashed or just a fast sell.


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## Aflyer

rvpinkey, I concur with other posters, Reckers has given you the detailed scoop on that locomotive. I would add that there are a couple spots in the paint, but that engine borders on excellent condition. No real scraches in the photos you shared, and the paint is not rubbed off on any edges. The lettering is excellent, and the wire handrails are completely tarnish free. A real nice piece.
Aflyer


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## phmo

Question for everybody: are the screws on the side of the tender at the front original? None of my references show them and they look out of place.

Comment; Not to dispute the information that others have proveded, but if one is trying to determine if the locomotifve is DC or AC the easiest and surest way, IMHO, is to examine the motor field. If this is an AC motor, the field will have a wire coil at its top and will have two wires coming from it that are connected to the jack panel located on the rear of the locomotive shell. If it is DC,then the motor field will not have a wire coil and there will not be any wires coming from it. 

No matter what, you have a wonderful example of an AF northen. I am very envious of your good fortune. Congratulations!!

PHM


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## rvpinkey

phmo said:


> Question for everybody: are the screws on the side of the tender at the front original? None of my references show them and they look out of place.
> 
> Comment; Not to dispute the information that others have proveded, but if one is trying to determine if the locomotifve is DC or AC the easiest and surest way, IMHO, is to examine the motor field. If this is an AC motor, the field will have a wire coil at its top and will have two wires coming from it that are connected to the jack panel located on the rear of the locomotive shell. If it is DC,then the motor field will not have a wire coil and there will not be any wires coming from it.
> 
> No matter what, you have a wonderful example of an AF northen. I am very envious of your good fortune. Congratulations!!
> 
> PHM


yeh well i wish we didnt have to sell his collection, ive always been a bit bitter he was always busy with work to show me it all back when i was a child. I used to play with a marklin set since my dad knew id break his AF if i ever got a hold of it. switchers were always my fav looking engines

so are you saying that two wires mean it is NOT a DC? guess i gota open it up... always nervous about that stuff since im not an expert or even close to a hobbyist


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## Stillakid

RV, 2 wires from the tender to the jack panel from the tender. If it's DC only, there will be a metal piece(magnet cover), under the field(magnet) with no wires wound around the field. And as PHMO said, no wire coming from the field(magnet)


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## Big Ed

phmo said:


> Question for everybody: are the screws on the side of the tender at the front original? None of my references show them and they look out of place PHM


They look out of place to me too, maybe someone added them?



rvpinkey said:


> yeh well i wish we didnt have to sell his collection, ive always been a bit bitter he was always busy with work to show me it all back when i was a child. I used to play with a marklin set since my dad knew id break his AF if i ever got a hold of it. switchers were always my fav looking engines
> 
> so are you saying that two wires mean it is NOT a DC? guess i gota open it up... always nervous about that stuff since im not an expert or even close to a hobbyist


I take it "Dad" left this world?
Yours was sort of like mine with your quotes.

You know you could try to sell them here?
Figure out a price and list them in the for sale section.


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## Reckers

phmo said:


> Question for everybody: are the screws on the side of the tender at the front original? None of my references show them and they look out of place.
> 
> Comment; Not to dispute the information that others have proveded, but if one is trying to determine if the locomotifve is DC or AC the easiest and surest way, IMHO, is to examine the motor field. If this is an AC motor, the field will have a wire coil at its top and will have two wires coming from it that are connected to the jack panel located on the rear of the locomotive shell. If it is DC,then the motor field will not have a wire coil and there will not be any wires coming from it.
> 
> No matter what, you have a wonderful example of an AF northen. I am very envious of your good fortune. Congratulations!!
> 
> PHM




Pmho, I thought that looked odd too, but the book photo shows a brass screw on the right side of the tender---I think we can assume that was standard on both sides. I also agree with you about examining the field coil, but dismantling the locomotive, for someone unfamiliar with it, might be a daunting task. Since there are only two wires between tender and locomotive, I felt removing 4 easy screws for a quick peek would be more in line with a beginner's confidence level.

Best wishes,


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## rvpinkey

Reckers said:


> Pmho, I thought that looked odd too, but the book photo shows a brass screw on the right side of the tender---I think we can assume that was standard on both sides. I also agree with you about examining the field coil, but dismantling the locomotive, for someone unfamiliar with it, might be a daunting task. Since there are only two wires between tender and locomotive, I felt removing 4 easy screws for a quick peek would be more in line with a beginner's confidence level.
> 
> Best wishes,


yeh im sure im up to the task of unscrewing a plate but examining a motor aka moving it is something i would rather not do

as to selling it here. its listed currently on ebay but i know on other forums i looked at to try and get info people have received my question rather negatively for some reason

i suppose with a sales section you guys here most likely support such a thing so i suppose i could....

i already listed it on EBAY but would i require more pictures then what was here? i took the front the back every side and a picture of the wheels

my camera is rather poor so its tough for me to get any super high quality photos


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## flyernut

THE TYCO MAN said:


> Thats a nice find and a nice engine! The 4-8-4's are in high demand it seems becuase I never see one sell less than $100 anywhere unless its trashed or just a fast sell.


And you will never see one sell for less than $100.


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## Big Ed

I guess Dad is still alive.

RV got a warm reception over CTT (Classic Toy Train) site.:laugh:

They are now talking about banning posts like his post looking for "appraisals".
Check it out.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/205760.aspx

I guess this site is a bit more friendly?
Though we do get a lot of questions like his, we try to answer in a nice civil way.

And some who ask won't even reply back with a thank you.
Or answer questions that you ask them.
They just get their info and leave.

You can't even post stuff for sale on CTT? I did not know that.


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## T-Man

I learned a lot from CTT. It has been a good resource. It was just no fun posting there. Most of the time I was corrected as to the mainstream beliefs of the forum. I have always had a much broader view of the hobby. That I why I Picked this forum and have stayed here. They also spent lots of time on engines I don't have or can't afford.

I will admit ED that their dinosaur page appeared after our discussion. That was in May 2010.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> I learned a lot from CTT. It has been a good resource. It was just no fun posting there. Most of the time I was corrected as to the mainstream beliefs of the forum. I have always had a much broader view of the hobby. That I why I Picked this forum and have stayed here. They also spent lots of time on engines I don't have or can't afford.
> 
> I will admit ED that their dinosaur page appeared after our discussion. That was in May 2010.


Yes, they put it on the cover too!

They stole our conversation! We should have copyrighted it.
I think when Tworail was active here he stated that someone, somewhere was stealing MTF's ideals or something. 

They have spy's here.

I think I will go and stir up their "nest" some. 
I will ask them all stupid questions about trains, then put some posts on selling some.
Post some of my expensive scouts over there for them to see.

Watch-out CTT, Big Ed is a coming, you old FARTS!:laugh:

Stealing our IDEAL!:smilie_daumenneg:


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## T-Man

I saw the old copy the other day and almost bought it. Here is the link of your post.

I still cannot find my caboose the 6119. Still looking. 

For a while we did provide entertainment to the other forums.

The other day I got an email from one member there about a thread I had. No wonder he didn't want to post it. The strange part is that I tried to post there and it wouldn't stick. Must be from inactivity. I can still read and login.

I did find this post on metal frames


I found the picture in photobucket












That box of trains was bought in the spring of 2009.It took some effort to track that picture down.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> I saw the old copy the other day and almost bought it. Here is the link of your post.
> 
> I still cannot find my caboose the 6119. Still looking.
> 
> For a while we did provide entertainment to the other forums.
> 
> The other day I got an email from one member there about a thread I had. No wonder he didn't want to post it. The strange part is that I tried to post there and it wouldn't stick. Must be from inactivity. I can still read and login.
> 
> I did find this post on metal frames


Here too, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=45741&postcount=14









From here, 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=45741#post45741

I know you posted some on the dinosaurs I can't find them.

What do you mean about, I still cannot find my caboose the 6119. Still looking.
Where here or there?


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## Big Ed

There is a lot of T-Man's track side critters in this thread. If you go through the thread.:thumbsup: All kinds of stuff.:thumbsup:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3596&highlight=6119


I know there are more.


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## T-Man

I found the junk box thread but I cannot find the original post of the 6119 eaten orange work caboose. It was in the same box as the search light with the extended lens on a wire. 6/27 09 is the date in my photo achieve.

Talk about trivia. The kiddie dinosaur picture in the junk box thread is cute.:thumbsup:

I guess we ruined this thread. My apologies to the author.hwell:
Good Grief it isin the S scale thread too. Add another apology.

On the thead subject I will say if you have a lot of pieces, search out a good book for reference. I use them and give the authors credit when I do.

In regards to S Scale I did find some AF trains at Bomar Hall. Portline Hobby does have a booth there.
To repent I will take a few pictures of two engines that caught my eye on my return.

I always search new posts and end up everywhere on the board.


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## Big Ed

T-Man said:


> I found the junk box thread but I cannot find the original post of the 6119 eaten orange work caboose. It was in the same box as the search light with the extended lens on a wire. 6/27 09 is the date in my photo achieve.
> 
> Talk about trivia. The kiddie dinosaur picture in the junk box thread is cute.:thumbsup:
> 
> I guess we ruined this thread. My apologies to the author.hwell:
> Good Grief it isin the S scale thread too. Add another apology.
> 
> On the thead subject I will say if you have a lot of pieces, search out a good book for reference. I use them and give the authors credit when I do.
> 
> In regards to S Scale I did find some AF trains at Bomar Hall. Portline Hobby does have a booth there.
> To repent I will take a few pictures of two engines that caught my eye on my return.
> 
> I always search new posts and end up everywhere on the board.



I guess we did get a little side tracked, but I think he would agree with the statements about the Classic Toy Old Fart site.

They are going to ban me there.:laugh:
I don't care, I think their magazine has gone downhill in the last few years too.:thumbsdown:


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## rvpinkey

big ed said:


> I guess Dad is still alive.
> 
> RV got a warm reception over CTT (Classic Toy Train) site.:laugh:
> 
> They are now talking about banning posts like his post looking for "appraisals".
> Check it out.
> http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/205760.aspx
> 
> I guess this site is a bit more friendly?
> Though we do get a lot of questions like his, we try to answer in a nice civil way.
> 
> And some who ask won't even reply back with a thank you.
> Or answer questions that you ask them.
> They just get their info and leave.
> 
> You can't even post stuff for sale on CTT? I did not know that.


yeh my dad is alive, he had a stroke and hes now what we call the 1,000 dollar man. has this machine in his chest its very creepy. 

they are very very quick to attack you on that forum. one guy said i was "ruining the hobby". its confusing to me simply because without people like me, you cant find these gems of trains that have been hidden for however many years and now they are on the market. i sold so many passenger sets that people im sure would love to have and maybe were not able to find before but now can.


as to the 332, i had a dealer make me an offer that i thought was low (obviously... hes a dealer) and i wanted to make sure this wasnt the model that was worth 2grand. im not an avid collecter but im not an idiot, the internet can help me learn things in a few days that might take a week to dig up.

this site was very friendly (obviously) and not so quick to judge. my past exp selling part of this collection was very dif as i found most collecters are older men who are very very nice (and chatty about AF trains)


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## Reckers

You guys really are cutting edge!!!! Old Farts and Dinosaurs!!! I cite a current article headline on Google News, today: " Dinosaurs farted their way to extinction, British scientists say"

Nice going, Ed and T-Man!!!:appl::appl::appl:


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## flyernut

rvpinkey said:


> yeh my dad is alive, he had a stroke and hes now what we call the 1,000 dollar man. has this machine in his chest its very creepy.
> 
> they are very very quick to attack you on that forum. one guy said i was "ruining the hobby". its confusing to me simply because without people like me, you cant find these gems of trains that have been hidden for however many years and now they are on the market. i sold so many passenger sets that people im sure would love to have and maybe were not able to find before but now can.
> 
> 
> as to the 332, i had a dealer make me an offer that i thought was low (obviously... hes a dealer) and i wanted to make sure this wasnt the model that was worth 2grand. im not an avid collecter but im not an idiot, the internet can help me learn things in a few days that might take a week to dig up.
> 
> this site was very friendly (obviously) and not so quick to judge. my past exp selling part of this collection was very dif as i found most collecters are older men who are very very nice (and chatty about AF trains)


I checked on ebay for your 332, and if it's the one I saw, then I believe you have priced it VERY fairly. I bought my K335 several years ago for the same exact price, and I believe I got a good bargain. Your's is a nice engine. Here's hoping your dad is feeling better, and I wish him the best. I lost mine 10 years ago, and miss him dearly every day.. Good luck on your auction.


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## rvpinkey

flyernut said:


> I checked on ebay for your 332, and if it's the one I saw, then I believe you have priced it VERY fairly. I bought my K335 several years ago for the same exact price, and I believe I got a good bargain. Your's is a nice engine. Here's hoping your dad is feeling better, and I wish him the best. I lost mine 10 years ago, and miss him dearly every day.. Good luck on your auction.


thanks


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## T-Man

I went back and took a few snaps of the booth. I even eyed a pair of 312's. Maybe one was a 313. The tags were hard to read.





























Cutting edge???? You heard it here first.


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