# Lionel 249 loco - why so $$$ ???



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi guys,

By now, a few of you have seen me poking / learning a bit about my old Lionel #249 loco. For kicks, I've poked around on eBay to see what price similar units go for. Most in the $40 to maybe $150 range. But then I found that one recently sold for $810 !!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-TRAINS-P...wItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item5639855e80

Apparently, it's in great condition. But even a few recently-published Lionel pricing books don't list the 249 nearly that high.

So what gives? Why would someone (at least 2 people, really) bid that loco so high in price? I guess "whatever floats your boat", but ...

Is "condition" really that much of a multiplier on / above typical open-market prices?

Just curious,

TJ 

(PS -- T-Man, that wasn't YOUR $810, was it ?!?!?  )


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> By now, a few of you have seen me poking / learning a bit about my old Lionel #249 loco. For kicks, I've poked around on eBay to see what price similar units go for. Most in the $40 to maybe $150 range. But then I found that one recently sold for $810 !!!
> 
> ...



Hello TJ,

First, this is a very rare/scarce version of the 249. The red strip version is very hard to obtain. Most 249 where a orange strip. Rarity is a huge factor in this auction. 

Secondly, "Condition" is also a huge factor in train collecting. If a piece is c-7 or better prices steadily rise.

Modern train guides usually don't have the scarce and extremely rare Lionel train prices. This is because the more rare the Lionel piece is, the more the price will be (There's no set price, for such rarity items). Like the Lionel Blue Boy's Set (There's no estimate for what there worth b/c there's only three known in existences. Last time one set sold was in 1988 at $23k. Some people say they could sell up to $1.5M ea. in today's current market). 

For ex: Yesterday I bought a Postwar Lionel 56 (Unrun) - Mint.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300396393657&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT 

I payed around $1600 for this item. But if you look on E-Bay for one, there around $200-$500. The reason I payed so much for this item is because the item is considered unrun/mint in box (Factory Fresh). Though this seems to be insane, its a great addition to a collection and for an investment. The box is even harder to find than the engine. A person would pay around $500-$800 just for the box. Hopefully you get what I mean (Collectors are crazy and they will spend a lot for a certain rare piece).

PW


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ Your pictures are great. I would say your set is in good condition and would be of value to a collector since you have the original boxes. That little truck is 25 to 30 as a repro. An original would be more. Maybe you should consider shelfing it and buy a new set for now. At least don't treat them as a toy. I guess the 249 is rare, one is good condition is rarer.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

PW_Lionel_Collector said:


> Hello TJ,
> 
> First, this is a very rare/scarce version of the 249. The red strip version is very hard to obtain. Most 249 where a orange strip. Rarity is a huge factor in this auction.
> 
> ...


PW,

Let me begin by acknowleging that collectors are very important to keeping the model train hobby and industry healthy. The more people involved, the better. The more money spent, the better for all of us. 

That said, I'm a guy who runs engines that go for $40, tops, and for whom a $130 engine would be a major investment. I'm glad to have you guys helping support our hobby, but I believe you are collectively crazy. :laugh:

Sincerely,


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

T-Man said:


> TJ Your pictures are great. I would say your set is in good condition and would be of value to a collector since you have the original boxes. That little truck is 25 to 30 as a repro. An original would be more. Maybe you should consider shelfing it and buy a new set for now. At least don't treat them as a toy. I guess the 249 is rare, one is good condition is rarer.


TJ, I think he's giving you good advice. There's a general consensus, I think, that the economic depression leans the market to favor buyers. Hang onto that puppy another 5 years before selling and I think you'd do better. 10 years would be even better.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Reckers it takes all kinds. We are sort of a weird bunch too.
The 3151 flatcar is a 60 to 160 item depending on condition.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Agreed. I told my girlfriend I have become an ultra-geek and am due for some sort of 12-step program. She more than agrees, and uses the term "obsession" instead of "hobby". She doesn't know about the bubbling water tower yet, either. *L*

The whole collecting side of the hobby is something I respect, but only feel mildly drawn to. I'm happy to see them fall in love with trains and collect them because that injects life into my side of the hobby, as well. It's all good, and I wish them well.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I like the water tower,BTW, now back to my Marx.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Thanks. I was amazed to find out I was able to order replacement parts for all of it, including the checkerboard sticker around the tower. It's gonna look sharp, once it's done. Enjoy the Marx!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi all,

Great comments above ... THANKS! A few responses ...

1. I DID go ahead and buy another 249 loco (and partial 1590 set) on ebay ... $42! It should arrive in a few days. It appears to be pretty chewed up, but servicable. So I'll take the advice offered and let the kids run/play with that one.

2. Although I'm quite curious (and shocked) at the market pricing of these old Lionels, I couldn't imagine selling anything from my old original set. It's been in my family since day-one, and its history and family connection means far more to me than any potential profit down the road. At some point -- if my "new" collection grows, I might swap/sell a few items. But I place my old, original, "first" set on a special "keep forever" plateau. It has too much sentimental value. Is that a commen thing with you guys?

3. PW -- nice find with that #56. I guess you're right ... condition, scarcity, (and original packaging) are "king" in terms of value. Congrats on the new addition!

4. While I'm all for people shelling out big bucks to buy a mint gem, I kinda like the thought that there's another group who pride themselve in buying the "old clunkers" that have been sitting in the bottom of the box for years, all dusty and broken -- and then breathing some new life back into them. I have a lot to learn in that department, but I suspect that I'll lean more towards that "restoration" end of the spectrum. 

5. As I feel myself getting sucked into this train thing more and more (via my own doing, mind you), I didn't realize that I'll have to prepare myself for the "12-Step Recovery Program" at some point down the road! Too funny!

6. In the meantime, I'll say again -- I've really, REALLY enjoyed "chatting trains" with you all these past few weeks ... I've learned a lot, and have had more than a few laughs!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am glad you got another "runner" set. By all means keep the sentimental set aside for the occasional show. To compliment the engine I would suggest a diesel engine purchase since you have a replaced the 249. What you get is up to you. The postwar library shows your choices.

Question two is always a decision to keep an engine original or upgrade it. I usually paint to stop rust and deterioration.


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

Reckers said:


> PW,
> 
> Let me begin by acknowleging that collectors are very important to keeping the model train hobby and industry healthy. The more people involved, the better. The more money spent, the better for all of us.
> 
> ...


Hey Reckers,

I don't only collect "mint ones", I enjoy the side of restoring them also. I have a collection of both (Mint sets and Restoration sets/Runner sets). I actually enjoy restoring the engines, it's a lot of fun (I need to update my restoration project thread). I currently don't have a layout of any kind b/c I'm going to college in 7-8 months. Maybe, when I graduate from college, get a steady job, and a house, I'll post pics of a layout.:laugh: People that spend only $1-$150 on a train are also a huge help in the train world. As long as everyone keeps putting a little into the industry, the longer and healthier everything will last.

PW:thumbsup:


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I like your attitude, PW. Restoration is a very satisfying thing, for me. Post the pics! By the way, what's your major going to be?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

TJ 

I say trains are made to be run.
It's good for the engine too.

Just don't have a wreck.


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

Reckers said:


> I like your attitude, PW. Restoration is a very satisfying thing, for me. Post the pics! By the way, what's your major going to be?


Well, I know I want to do engineering.  I was thinking about getting a mechanical engineering degree. I love working on mechanical devices: cars, trains, etc... If or when I do accomplish this "dream" degree, I was hoping to get a job with Boeing or Porsche. I know this sounds insanely hard with intensive work, but if I could work through it, a little at a time, this would make a great job for me. :thumbsup::laugh:


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

if you like what you're doing, it's not work.


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

Reckers said:


> if you like what you're doing, it's not work.


Very True! :laugh:


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