# Magna Traction question



## overlander (Dec 24, 2010)

I have a 2055 with Magna traction and I would like to have a little better understanding of it . I've read about it's purpose , but still have a few questions . Are the wheels just permanent magnets as opposed to being electro-magnetic ? I can feel just a little pull on a tiny jewelers screwdriver when I have it on the bench . Do they lose magnetism over time . It has a little trouble getting started , even on a clean flat track , with five cars behind it , but boy will it fly if I let it . Can the wheels be remagnetized ? Would it be worth it ? Cliff


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The magnet is actually in the frame around the axle, and it's not an electromagnet, it's indeed a permanent magnet. Yes, there have been discussions about "re-magnetizing" magnatraction locomotive wheels, so it's clearly a problem. It can be done, but I'm guessing it's pretty expensive.

It's hard to imagine the loco can't startup with 5-6 cars, I'm not sure I've ever seen one that wimpy. Even the little 4-4-2 cheap Scout Lionel locomotives with no magnatraction or traction tires will normally pull half a dozen cars on a flat layout pretty easily!

Is the loco spinning the wheels when it tries to start?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Another thought, if you're not a purest. Frank Timko (Timko's Repair Depot) will install traction tires on many locomotives for $20 a pair, might be a cheaper option.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

overlander said:


> I have a 2055 with Magna traction and I would like to have a little better understanding of it . I've read about it's purpose , but still have a few questions . Are the wheels just permanent magnets as opposed to being electro-magnetic ? I can feel just a little pull on a tiny jewelers screwdriver when I have it on the bench . Do they lose magnetism over time . It has a little trouble getting started , even on a clean flat track , with five cars behind it , but boy will it fly if I let it . Can the wheels be remagnetized ? Would it be worth it ? Cliff


And explanation Out of the manual without copying the whole thing,

The magnets are attached to the frame or motor truck it depends on the loco.
The axles are stainless (non magnetic type) if you use ordinary steel axles you will "short circuit" the magnetic flux.

If the magnets become loose and rub against the wheel it is recommended to replace the whole truck.
It is hard they say to re-cement the magnets.

Years ago in a junk lot I picked up some axles that were splined on the ends and were magnetic.
Back then I thought they were for magnatraction.

I am still wondering what they are for.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> The magnets are attached to the frame or motor truck it depends on the loco.


Ed raises a good point ... there are different types of magnet installations on magnetraction locos. Somewhere, I saw a good graphic drawing that showed the configurations and differences, but I can't think where. I'll do some digging and see if I can find it.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, they're typically on the motor frame for steamers, but they're obviously on the trucks for diesels. I have a number of magnatraction diesels, and several of the conventional steamers have magnatraction as well.


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## Zeke (Feb 22, 2011)

> It has a little trouble getting started , even on a clean flat track , with five cars behind it


Just a thought, but have you checked the wheels and axles on the cars? Are they clean and do they spin freely? If enough gunk gets built up in there it can create enough drag that the engine has trouble getting started.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Here's the diagram on magnetraction I was thinking of ...

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/locoinfo\locp2.pdf

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have several that have magnetic axles, and at least one, the SD-40, has the magnets separate from the axles, so I'm assuming those are SS, they are nice and shiny.


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## PW_Lionel_Collector (Jul 13, 2009)

overlander said:


> I have a 2055 with Magna traction and I would like to have a little better understanding of it . I've read about it's purpose , but still have a few questions . Are the wheels just permanent magnets as opposed to being electro-magnetic ? I can feel just a little pull on a tiny jewelers screwdriver when I have it on the bench . Do they lose magnetism over time . It has a little trouble getting started , even on a clean flat track , with five cars behind it , but boy will it fly if I let it . Can the wheels be remagnetized ? Would it be worth it ? Cliff


I've pulled steam engine wheels off and they are also magnetize. (Same with most postwar diesel engines) Not only the axles but also the wheels. The magnets are a permanent magnetic force. Ways you can bring the magnetism back: rub the wheels with a strong earth magnetic. After that store your trains either on track or keep a piece of metal with wheels when you store the engine so the magnetism stays. The magnetic strength goes away after a long period of time if they are not in a constant contact with metal.

Just a thought,

PW


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, the wheels get magnetized simply by being in the magnetic field, they're not magnetized as a part of magnatraction. I've toyed with the idea of using some of the really strong rare earth magnets to revive weak magnatraction, haven't done it yet...


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## overlander (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks for all the input guys . I understand the system much better now . I took the shell off last night and looked things over . It's kind of hard to see what all might be a magnet , but it looked as though they're small and , glued inside the frame with the axles running through them . I doubt they are doing much in the condition they are in . While I had it apart , I sprayed electrical cleaner into every place I had previously oiled , cleaning out any buildup and then re-oiled it all . It seemed to help some . I'm now wondering if I was just spoiled , having my first engine be a Chinese can motor . Maybe the performance of my old engine is just what the older engines are like . It doesn't run well at slow speeds . I have to give it full throttle to get it moving , then slow it down , but when I try to run it at a reasonably slow speed , it stops and seems to go into neutral . I'm not talking real slow here , just reasonable . It's hard to hook up different trains behind it because to get it to back in to couple , I have to give it so much throttle that it slams the train and at least one car will derail . The Polar Express engine backs into them really nicely . I may bring my Dad's old Hudson home and try it again , now that I have a little more experience and compare them . It's just on display now that I have his layout at my house .


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The AC open frame motors don't run at low speeds like the DC can motors, this is a well established fact.

Even the TMCC AC motored locomotives I have don't have the low speed performance as the DC motored models.

You may have to give the train some throttle, then cut it back once it gets rolling.


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## overlander (Dec 24, 2010)

That's not really a problem . I can adapt . I just likes things to work right and be as good as they can be , even if, and maybe especially if , they need a little tinkering .


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Based on when the first Magne-Traction locos were made, the magnets are not rare earth magnets, but at best would be alnico. Alnico magnets need to have a "keeper" on them to retain their magnetism over time. It should be possible to make an electro magnet to remagnetize the Magne-Traction magnets. A U shaped piece of iron with a coil wrapped on it and a DC power supply should do it. The U shaped piece of iron should fit snugly onto the wheels. It would be best if the magnets were remagnetized on the same direction they were originally magnetized in.

There are other things that can go wrong with Magne-Traction: I have a 2055 that had the magnet come loose. No, it isn't easier to replace the whole motor assembly. I drilled a hole for a 4-40 screw through the standoff between the motor plates and put the set screw against the magnet (gently) to keep it from sliding sideways. Then I put one or two E rings on the axle to keep the wheels away from the magnet. This made the loco work much better. 

As far as I know, all the steamers had the magnets located above the axles. In addition to the axles being stainless, the motor side plates were aluminum. Many (all) of the post war diesels have fat axles which are magnets. I know the F-3s do. I have had a number of diesels apart, and never saw one with Magne-Traction that didn't have a fat axle. I don't know about the newer locos. 

IMHO, Magne-Traction is preferable over traction tires. Traction tires screw up the operation of the non-derailing feature of the switches. I could never figure out why Lionel and others make locos with traction tires knowing that the non-derailing feature of the switches will not work well with them. 

I have often thought of replacing the original magnets with NiBFe magnets which would make the Magne-Traction very strong, perhaps too strong. Magne-Traction increases the friction when the loco is going around a curve, there could be too much of a good thing. My experience is that the Magne-Traction doesn't have to bee too strong to work well. If you 2055 won't pull more than 5 cars, I suggest you lube the loco and all the wheels on the cars. You should be able to pull 20+ cars with that loco. I have done it on O-31 track. Problem is the knuckles on the couplers won't stay closed. I recommend 5W-20 motor oil for lube. I have 50+ years of experience with motor oil and it does not dry out and need to be cleaned out and replaced. You can even oil the commutator to reduce the motor friction. If you do, make sure the slots are clean and the brushes are clean as the oil will dissolve the dried grease that is holding the dirt in the slots and the dirt will contaminate the commutator. No big deal as it is easily cleaned.
Bruce Baker


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> IMHO, Magne-Traction is preferable over traction tires. Traction tires screw up the operation of the non-derailing feature of the switches. I could never figure out why Lionel and others make locos with traction tires knowing that the non-derailing feature of the switches will not work well with them.


I'm sure the reason for traction tires is price, they're MUCH cheaper to manufacture.

As far as non-derailing switches, if the traction tires are correctly installed on the trailing wheels of a truck on a diesel or the last set of drivers on a steamer, they won't affect non-derailing switches. I don't think this is an issue except for the few earlier locomotives I've seen with them installed willy-nilly on one side or the other. I have a couple like that, I've always thought about the possibility of moving the wheels to the proper place.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, I am sure you are right about the price of traction tires v. Magne-Traction.

I bought a couple of GPs back in the 70s. It was my first experience with traction tires. I remember being disappointed at how the GPs worked with the 022 switches I had. 

In this same connection, I have had problems with pilot trucks on steamers bouncing when they come onto a 022 switch. If the track isn't perfectly level approaching the switch, the pilot truck may bounce and not throw the switch completely. I don't think I ever had a problem with a post war diesel.
Bruce Baker


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I've had the problems with the pilot trucks of steamers jumping, especially on O27 switches. I think the older traction tire arrangements might have been a problem, I have several with them both on one side of the truck for the front, then on the other side for the back. Newer stuff has them all on the back wheels of the truck or the rear drivers on steamers. That makes more sense to me.


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