# Lionel "Blue Comet" Colors ???



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Alright ... question for all of your old-school Lionel types ...

Simply put, I'm trying to paint a Yugo in Shelby Cobra blue colors ... well ... something along those lines ...

I'm "restoring" a Lionel prewar 258 loco ... the one that's a poor-man's cousing to the 259. In the process, I thought I'd dress the old man up in a new suit, and paint it in something akin to the classic prewar Lionel "Blue Comet" colors.

However, as I search around on the internet for photo examples of Lionel Blue Comets, I'm seeing a huge variation in the hues/tints of the specific blue shades. Specifically ...

On one end of the spectrum, I see things like this ... a very rich blue on the boiler and cab:











But, on the other end of the spectrum, I see things like this ... a much more greenish tint to the boiler and cab blue:











As a sidenote, I thought I recall reading that when Lionel (or MTH?) reissued the tinplate Blue Comet in recent years, they received enormous flack back from the buyers, saying that they had screwed up the colors, and were not being faithful to the original.

So, my question to you guys (not having the luxury of having a Comet in my hands to hold) ...

Which is the more original color scheme ... the first image with it more blueish tone, or the second image, with its more greenish tone ???

TJ


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

The very very originals were all one color of blue. then later came others that featured the more accurate to prototype as best can be acomplished by tinplate which was a dark blue to symbolize the Jersey Shore's and then a lighter blue to symbolize the sky. It is mearly which you prefer in this case. This is a question I know how to awnser.  A lot of it is also from the lighting and the wear and tear that the paint has seen which effects the color.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I like the top color best.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The correct color s always going to be a problem for early trains that ran before color film was available. 



Without a CNJ document specifying the paint it will remain speculation but definitely was dark blue.


On the engines...and I am talking about the real Blue Comet.


I dug this up on the net, but never saw the book...yet.



There is a detailed construction project in a book called “The Seashore’s Finest Train: The Blue Comet” by Joel Rosenbaum and Tom Gallo. It was published in 1983 by Railpace Company, P.O. Box 927, Piscataway, NJ 08854, and 60 pages long. It is out of print but can be found in a county library.
The construction article is very thorough and details how to mix the proper paint colors. 



TJ pick what you like best, it is your train, I like the 2 tone myself.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah ... perhaps I'm over-thinking this. Uhh ... maybe scratch the "perhaps" part ... I guess I _am_ over-thinking this.

Anyway, I'm not so much interested in the color scheme of the _real_ Blue Comet, as I am the color scheme of Lionel's standard gauge and O gauge versions back in the 1930's.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hop in your time machine, set it for 80 years back, and see for yourself. 

You do realize that even if you match the colors used 80 years ago, they won't look right today. You need to match the colors faded by 80 years.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John ... I got a chuckle out of that ... good point!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd just pick a nice color and fire away.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Hop in your time machine, set it for 80 years back, and see for yourself.
> 
> You do realize that even if you match the colors used 80 years ago, they won't look right today. You need to match the colors faded by 80 years.



TJ is looking towards the future.
He wants to paint them like Lionel did so when he sells them he might get more $$$ for them. So he can call them professionally restored Locos.


TJ's Tin Shop.com



I would two tone the blues. Dark on the bottom light on the top.:thumbsup:


Alien Green would be nice too!:thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> TJ is looking towards the future.
> He wants to paint them like Lionel did so when he sells them he might get more $$$ for them. So he can call them professionally restored Locos.


Unless the people looking at them also have a time machine, how will they know the color is correct?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Unless the people looking at them also have a time machine, how will they know the color is correct?



I hope he realizes that he will have to get some old passenger cars and paint them up for the engine to pull around too.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> I hope he realizes that he will have to get some old passenger cars and paint them up for the engine to pull around too.


He does now.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You guys are a hoot!

I'll confess that my boys and I have absolutely NO passenger cars yet ... O or HO. Hmmm ...

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a ton of passenger cars, I'm thinking of moving some of them out.


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

There was a show on TLC the other night - some kind of estate sale/auction show and there was a blue comet on the show for sale.

Maybe you can go to TLC and see the show to get the color?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nov,

Thanks ... I'll poke around the TLC website. There's lots of photos online of old Lionel Blue Comet trains. Unfortunately, there's a wide range of shades of blue ... either through variations in the paint, or perhaps simply through photo quality/lighting.

Anyway, I've jumped off the cliff ...

I bought a few cans of Krylon paint for my 258 redo. Global Blue for the boiler top; Regal Blue for the bottom frame. Should look nice ... I hope!

TJ


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm sure it's gonna look incredible 

When I saw the show, I thought of yours immediately.

My mistake not tlc. tru tv - here's the show:
http://www.trutv.com/video/big-brian-fortune-seller/full-episodes/index.html

you want episode 104.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> You guys are a hoot!
> 
> I'll confess that my boys and I have absolutely NO passenger cars yet ... O or HO. Hmmm ...
> 
> TJ


Lookie what I found....5 packs unopened. (till I took this picture.)

For passenger cars.:thumbsup:

Yes O gauge.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice. Wet transfer or dry rub application???

I see you have the Comet car names in the pack, too: Westphal, Temple, Halley, etc.

Neat!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Nice. Wet transfer or dry rub application???
> 
> I see you have the Comet car names in the pack, too: Westphal, Temple, Halley, etc.
> 
> Neat!



These are wet transfer decals.
I just snagged them off fee bay a couple nights ago, $2 a pack with free shipping.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

big ed said:


> The correct color s always going to be a problem for early trains that ran before color film was available.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What before color film? That has been around for a long long time. Even
before this type. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autochrome_Lumière

But this color photograph would cover the era nicely, just trying to find a
photo with trains in it is the hard part. 

Pookybear


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

pookybear said:


> What before color film? That has been around for a long long time. Even
> before this type.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autochrome_Lumière
> ...


Sure.....everyone had a color camera in the thirties.

Not many even had a camera.

That is why you can't even find photos of it.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Silly sidebar ...

(One of the all-time great literary works ...)










TJ


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

big ed said:


> Sure.....everyone had a color camera in the thirties.
> 
> Not many even had a camera.
> 
> That is why you can't even find photos of it.


Your totally right with this statment I am such a goof. The good old days
were people had to go out and kill dinner with a spear. And just think that
was like what 1975! Look how far we have come in 36 years.

What was I thinking people with cameras in the 1920s or 1930s I was totally
kidding there how silly. Next I will post something about men in space. ^_^ 


Pookybear


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

note to self, 
Don't ever leave a thread for more then a day or two, you will have no clue what is going on.

TJ,
The colors I specified are actaully from the book that Big Ed mentioned "The Seashore's Finest Train. It specified a dark Navy blue for the sky, a lighter creamier blue to symbolize the ocean, and a white to symbolize the sandy shores of new Jersey. It doesn't specifiy exactly where the colors should be placed but I have got it narrowed to the passenger cars being iether the navy and white only or the lighter and white only and then the engine was only the navy and lighter blue color with the lighter blue on top of the boiler area where the walkway is that goes alongside the boiler and has steps leading to the front from the cab. the area below these walkways was the darker navy color. Now this is i you plan on makeing it accurate to what it was in real life but by all means pick what colors and combinations you think will make it look the nicest to you.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

pookybear said:


> Your totally right with this statment I am such a goof. The good old days
> were people had to go out and kill dinner with a spear. And just think that
> was like what 1975! Look how far we have come in 36 years.
> 
> ...


1975

The Blue Comet ran from 1929 to 1941.

The train's last run was on September 27, 1941, from Atlantic City to Jersey City

In December 1975 a special _Blue Comet Nostalgia Train_ operated with a steam locomotive from the Raritan bay to Bayhead. The nostalgia train trip was filmed and appeared in a Christmas special edition of the tomorrow TV show with host Tom Snyder on December 25, 1975.

You don't need to kill with a spear....for sport just use a rock. Or knuckles.


There are no men in space it is a figment of your imagination.

Don't you know that the government is just making it look like there were men in space?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

GC,

I finished the quasi Blue Comet redo of my prewar 258. I thinking about color choices, I wasn't so much trying to replicate the colors of the real Blue Comet train ... rather, I was instead trying to echo the toy look of Lionel's 1930's versions of the train.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

so you got the colors you wanted then? can we see some pics of this fine new engine? The Lionels tended to be a blueish-green on the upper half and a dark-light blue for the bottom. This is only with the vanderbuilt style rounded tender though. The rare Blue Comet with an actual coal tender was a light blue for all the tender and the upper of the engine and a darker for the bottom of the engine and I think the trucks on the tender in case you hadn't done the painting yet.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

gc53dfgc said:


> so you got the colors you wanted then? can we see some pics of this fine new engine?


If you visit the O-scale forum, you can see the pictures.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

GC,

Before/after pics here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5570

I definitely went with the toy-like look, rather than a realistic prototype look.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gc53dfgc said:


> so you got the colors you wanted then? can we see some pics of this fine new engine? The Lionels tended to be a blueish-green on the upper half and a dark-light blue for the bottom. This is only with the vanderbuilt style rounded tender though. The rare Blue Comet with an actual coal tender was a light blue for all the tender and the upper of the engine and a darker for the bottom of the engine and I think the trucks on the tender in case you hadn't done the painting yet.



What would a Dark/light blue color for the bottom look like?:laugh:


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

What? oh it is a mix of the 2 not quite a dark blue but not nesicarlily a light blue so more of an inbetween blue. Hope that awnsers your question ed?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gc53dfgc said:


> What? oh it is a mix of the 2 not quite a dark blue but not nesicarlily a light blue so more of an inbetween blue. Hope that awnsers your question ed?


Nope,

I want to see a picture of the different colors.:laugh:


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

I can't find any traces of the Lionel engine with the rare coal tender anywhere on google. I will see if I have a pic in storage though.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Did you see the pics in Post 1 of this thread ??? Is that what you mean ???


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Nope the engines in the first post are the vanderbuilt style tenders.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...LpGgOtrTiIkP&ved=0CDQQ9QEwBA&biw=1131&bih=610
See?
The vanderbuilt version tended to have a greener light blue for the top and a darker blue for the bottom compared to the coal tendered version
http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=2218&aid=30347&lid=8381420
See?
The coal tender version had a bluer lighter color for the top and a slightly lighter dark blue for the bottom. These coal tender versions are rather hard to find and are getting rarer and rarer and if i had known of this one going for a mere 175 I would have jumped all over it. I realize that this one is a repaint but it is just aobut the same engine and tender.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks ... got it.

I think you're refering to the same "blue" vs. "greenish blue" shade difference that I mentioned (and try to show with the two photos) in the first post.

As it turns out, I actually like the greenish blue better than the truer blue that I used on the shell of my 258 redo. Krylon actually makes a color that's a very good match to the greenish blue. However, my local Walmart had only one can left, and as much as I tried, I couldn't find any other store in my area that had any more. (I could have ordered a 6-pack case online, but too expensive.)

On my 258, I used Krylon Global Blue for the boiler shell.

But Krylon Bahama Sea does a good job of matching that other greenish blue color. It's a tough paint to find in stock anywhere, though.


















TJ


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

its kind of a hard call on the paint for the Lionel blue comets as the two differences are really similar and close to each other but really different at the same time. I think your engine looks great but I think for a 258 it may have looked better in the bahamas but it really does just come down to personal choice as for the two different options.


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

Well stumbled on a Youtube video about autochromes today. 

Granted it is a picture of a Full size train but in color none the less
for the teens or 1920s 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGkjNcHkvzY time marker 3:36 Is 
where the photo is located.

Pookybear

You never know what you will find out there, keep looking.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks ... I didn't know about the existence of Autochromes and early color photography until you mentioned it the other day ... neat!

TJ


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## pookybear (Feb 3, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks ... I didn't know about the existence of Autochromes and early color photography until you mentioned it the other day ... neat!
> 
> TJ


I know it was a bit off topic but thought I would throw it out there. Never
know where the next good book will come from. As I do recall Kalmbach 
Publishing put out a book on Traction back in the late 1980s that had
all color photographs from the time period.

The hardest thing to grasp is that this was not the first type of color 
photograph, but the first practial color film made. The first color photographs
are the "Hillotypes" of the 1850s. Lets Just say Kodak had a better 
advertizing department. 

Pookybear


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Tinplate Blue Comet Colors : Experimental Results ...*

Hi guys,

At the outset of this thread, I inquired about traditional colors that Lionel used on their prewar, tinplate Blue Comet trains:



tjcruiser said:


> ... as I search around on the internet for photo examples of Lionel Blue Comets, I'm seeing a huge variation in the hues/tints of the specific blue shades. Specifically ...
> 
> On one end of the spectrum, I see things like this ... a very rich blue on the boiler and cab:
> 
> ...


Well, I can't say which "look" is more authentic, but I have since tried to create them both with my recent Lionel prewar, tinplate loco restoration projects ...

First up is my 258. Here, I used Krylon Global Blue for the boiler top and Krylon Regal Blue for the bottom frame:










Next, we have my most-recent 1681 loco. Here, I used Krylon Bahama Sea for the boiler top and Krylon Regal Blue for the bottom frame. (Also, Krylon Banner Red for the cowcatcher):










It's a somewhat subtle difference, perhaps, but you can see the tone differences betwen the "rich" Global Blue and the softer Bahama Sea.

After trying both, I think I prefer the Bahama Sea. However ...

Unfortunately, I don't think Krylon offers much distribution of Bahama Sea ... I happened to pick up a lone can at my local Walmart, but it seems to be a rare, hard-to-find color.

And I'm not sure that either variant is all that faithful to Lionel's original Comet, but this was all an experiment, and I wanted to share the results with you guys.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What did you edit last night?
First time I think I saw your results?

Tell you the truth....I like them both.:thumbsup:

I don't know about the red wheels though, if anything I think blue wheels for the Blue Comet would have been better.

Did you post these somewhere else too?
With the tender? I thought I saw these already, but I did not comment here on this thread. 
Not like me not to say anything.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi Ed,

The first photo in post #1 (and CC'd in #42) was a photo I had just pulled off the 'net. For some reason, the link went bad, so I replaced it with a similar photo last night.

The "Comet" version 1681 (along with several other 1681 restorations) is described here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=6521&highlight=1681

As for the red wheels, I was going for the Lionel toy-like look that they used on their Comet, as shown in the 2nd pics of Post #1 (and #42).

No matched tender as of yet. I do have three "boneyard" 1681 tenders that I plan to strip and refinish. One will get matched to the "Comet", another to my green Christmas 1681, and the last a basic black/red. Winter/springtime projects, though. I'm taking a breather for a while.

Cheers,

TJ


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

TJ is it possible that the lighter paint with the green in it has faded to that color? Blue does tend to fade to greenish after awhile especially in the sun or bright light. Nice looking engine and the paint looks treiffic. Good job there. pete


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Pete,

It's quite possible that some of the old (original) Lionel Comet locos I've seen have paint that's faded and turned green a bit. I'd love to get one in my hands to see if there's any paint color variation below metal fittings and the like.

Good thought ... I just don't know a definitive answer. Anyone?

Thanks for the thumbs-up on my restorations / repaints ... I like 'em, too!

TJ


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