# Alternative to plaster cloth?



## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Hey guys, 

Spring break is next week and I wanna get a ton of stuff done. I have a bunch of foam ready to go and I went to buy plaster cloth last night. I'm wondering if their is an alternate product I can use? $20 for a roll isn't my cup of tea. 

Somewhere I read getting the mix plaster and cheap paper towels works, what do you think? 

Thanks guys!!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Paper mache has long been a substance modellers have used
to create terrain. It's newspapers or other paper cut in strips then soaked in
a dilute glue and draped over the support. You can then paint that
with a diluted dry wall paste or something similar to smooth
it out.

Don


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

When I built a mountain 30 years ago, I used plaster cast cloth (same thing as what WS sells now, but only 4” wide). I got it at medical supply places. It was messy, but I’m thinking that using plaster and paper towels would be a lot messier.

You could shop around for a better price on the plaster cloth. Wholesale Trains has 10 square foot rolls for $8 and Michaels has them for $11. 

Lately, I’ve been covering foam with a thin coat of Amaco Sculptamold. A little goes a long way, it’s not too messy and the surface doesn’t have a cloth pattern when you are done.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I used paper mache for my hills. Used my kids homework papers since we do not get a news paper. I just used a card board lattice underneath that I cut from old boxes for the base support. Will enough layers it gets really hard. The support is mainly needed when it is drying.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

My base to the mountains is foam, would paper mâché work on that too?


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I've used newspaper too.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I use paper towels dipped in a soupy mixture of Hydrocal.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

That's looks really good, now is hydrocal similar is the dry mix plaster?


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydrocal is a gypsum plaster. Just mix it with water just like regular plaster. It is quite a bit harder than plaster of paris and can be hard to find. I have seen it available in small amounts but being that I have a fairly large layout, I bought it in 50 pound bags. 

You might check some of the hobby suppliers on the internet for smaller amounts.


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## Tallaman (Oct 23, 2012)

Chet said:


> Hydrocal is a gypsum plaster.


Sounds similar to joint compound?


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

I believe it is also called molding plaster and Home Depot sells 50 lb bags for about $13.00


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## wingnut163 (Jan 3, 2013)

i use flower and water over any thing that will make a form, card board,Styrofoam, wadded up news paper. flower and water is the original paper mâché


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## Scotie (Sep 27, 2013)

Hydrocal is definitely not the same as joint compound which is designed to be thin, sandable and etc. Hydrocal has much more strength in thin layers. Some of the sceney products dealers stock it in small bags.
Scotie


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

wingnut163 said:


> i use flower and water over any thing that will make a form, card board,Styrofoam, wadded up news paper. flower and water is the original paper mâché


My only concern is that flour is a food product and even if you can keep the little critters from eating it, what will you do about insects eating it. My preference is some non-food material that is not eatable by anything.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

Scotie said:


> Hydrocal is definitely not the same as joint compound which is designed to be thin, sandable and etc. Hydrocal has much more strength in thin layers. Some of the sceney products dealers stock it in small bags.
> Scotie


I was comparing Hydrocal and molding plaster, not joint compound.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Here's some links to Hydrocal. I have been using it for over 30 years and wouldn't use anything else. I have used plaster of paris and joint compound, but after using Hydrocal, I won't use anything else. You don't have as long a working time with Hydrocal because it does set up faster that plaster, but you can get more work done in less time. I found that using small batches works just fine. Hydrocal is also probably one of the better plasters to use for rock castings. 

http://www.plaster.com/HYDROCAL.html

From Model Railroader Magazine. 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/172804.aspx


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Check the November 2015 issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist (Creating the "Ozark mountains")... he discusses a process of dipping window screen into a pool of expanding foam. The foam clings to the screen in a thin layer and gives you a few minutes to drape it over your framework.

I'm keen on this idea for several reason... Very lightweight, bugs and critters won't eat it (although I could see mice trying to burrow into it?), and it seems like temperature changes would have very little affect on it.


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## Odyknuck (Dec 31, 2015)

Check out the material this guy uses in this Utube Vid. I found it interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvM1XyxC8Bs&index=1&list=PLUPA7kItMcWsEi_ZdT4lhk45cy4lUwstW


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Odyknuck said:


> Check out the material this guy uses in this Utube Vid. I found it interesting:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvM1XyxC8Bs&index=1&list=PLUPA7kItMcWsEi_ZdT4lhk45cy4lUwstW


Are you talking about the shaper sheet?

I thought about using this, but since I have all this foam, im gonna use that. Im looking for something to cover the foam i have. Technically I could just paint and add tree/bushed directly onto the foam, right?


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## Odyknuck (Dec 31, 2015)

Yes the shaper sheet. You can lay that over anything. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Any setting compound will work fine with paper towels. 
Setting. comes in a bag that you mix with water. Every hardware store in America carries it. 30 or 45 minute work time should be ideal.

Better towels are easier to work with. The cheap ones @ the dollar store may fall apart on you while you work.

Mix small batches in cheap plastic buckets - clean up promptly.

A stop to most any thrift store will score the plastic bowls cheap.

If you are feeling adventurous Structolite adds texture. 50 lbs shouldn't cost more than 20 dollars.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Aminnich said:


> Technically I could just paint and add tree/bushed directly onto the foam, right?


Yes.

Sometimes I shape the foam with a rasp and sandpaper, paint right on the foam with a thick coat and apply grass, gravel or dirt to the wet paint. Structolite, mold-a-scene or sculptamold can also be applied directly on the foam before painting.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Lehigh74 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Sometimes I shape the foam with a rasp and sandpaper, paint right on the foam with a thick coat and apply grass, gravel or dirt to the wet paint. Structolite, mold-a-scene or sculptamold can also be applied directly on the foam before painting.


I think this is what I'm gonna try first


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Odyknuck said:


> Check out the material this guy uses in this Utube Vid. I found it interesting:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvM1XyxC8Bs&index=1&list=PLUPA7kItMcWsEi_ZdT4lhk45cy4lUwstW


One word of caution about using *any kind of plaster product*.
DON'T WASH THAT DOWN THE DRAINS, unless you thoroughly flush your drain pipes with a lot of water. Even washing your hands of the plaster be careful. You can plug up your pipes if your not careful. I use a 5 gal bucket to wash whatever I wash of the plaster then dump it outside in the back 40.

That being said,
I think you posted the wrong video?
That one shows nothing about using the Quilt Batting? 
Is that what you are calling the " shaper sheet"? 

Here,(?)


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

Aminnich said:


> Are you talking about the shaper sheet?
> 
> I thought about using this, but since I have all this foam, im gonna use that. Im looking for something to cover the foam i have. Technically I could just paint and add tree/bushed directly onto the foam, right?



That is what I'll be doing. I will have a wide variety of materials under the track. (plywood, MDF, foam, etc.) It is the only way I can see of bringing it all together paint, paint, and more paint! The "oops" or mistakes department is THE place to go, sometimes you must ask if they have "bad color mix" areas! Mrs Quimby's inability to choose a color is my gain! Earth tones abound and it is top quality stuff for CHEAP! 35-40 dollar a gallon paint for 5-9 bucks EACH! Many times pints for a buck or two of top quality paint! Avoid gloss unless you will be covering it or WANT a "shine" on whatever it is you are painting!


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

I would definetly get a mat finish paint, I don't want my hills to shine from the overhead light. 

Here are my thoughts regarding paints. And please correct me if I'm wrong. I would put a coat of base paint (a tan or light brown) to represent dirt. Then I would use spray paint to add colors. Here is my question; who the spray paint still eat away at the styrofoam if it had a good coat of paint? I would use spray paint throughout, but I don't want it to eat away at my shaped foam. 

Thanks for all your input and help guys!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I never tried using spray paint over latex paint. I'm thinking if it doesn't eat the rigid foam, it might just make the latex crinkle.

I apply one coat of latex to make sure all the pink is hidden and let it dry for a few hours. Then lay on a thick coat of latex paint and immediately sprinkle on WS earth blend (for dirt), green blend (for grass) and/or play sand (for gravel). Then I spray a 50/50 mix of scenic cement and water (you can also dilute Elmers glue) to make sure the ground cover stays in place.

By the way, when shaping the foam with rasp or sandpaper, the pink dust goes everywhere and picks up a static charge. I use a dust mask and shop vac to keep it under control.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Lehigh74 said:


> I never tried using spray paint over latex paint. I'm thinking if it doesn't eat the rigid foam, it might just make the latex crinkle.
> 
> I apply one coat of latex to make sure all the pink is hidden and let it dry for a few hours. Then lay on a thick coat of latex paint and immediately sprinkle on WS earth blend (for dirt), green blend (for grass) and/or play sand (for gravel). Then I spray a 50/50 mix of scenic cement and water (you can also dilute Elmers glue) to make sure the ground cover stays in place.
> 
> By the way, when shaping the foam with rasp or sandpaper, the pink dust goes everywhere and picks up a static charge. I use a dust mask and shop vac to keep it under control.


Thanks Lehigh74 for your input. 

shaping the white bead Styrofoam is MUCH more of a mess. Im covering in foam by the time im done with what im doing


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I tried the white Styrofoam just once…and didn’t end up using it just for that reason…because it made a mega mess...and because it didn’t seem to carve/shape well. I’m interested to hear how you make out with it. I’m guessing you will need to use something like Sculptamold to get the final shape.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

For right now I'm just getting the basic shape I want then I'll go back and use something to add rock formations etc.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Hydrocal plaster*



Aminnich said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Spring break is next week and I wanna get a ton of stuff done. I have a bunch of foam ready to go and I went to buy plaster cloth last night. I'm wondering if their is an alternate product I can use? $20 for a roll isn't my cup of tea.
> 
> ...


 Aminnich;

Hydrocal brand plaster has been used for scenery for many years. It is made by US Gypsum Co. You may be able to find a dealer through them. I don't think it's carried at Home Depot or Lowes. If you use plaster, use Hydrocal(or Ultracal another version from USG.)
Common molding plaster, plaster of Paris, and such are not as strong as Hydrocal. You may be able to buy small bags of Hydrocal, at high prices, from a hobby shop. Last time I used it was on a club layout, and we bought a fifty pound bag. Unfortunately the stuff is sometimes difficult to find, and usually it's only available in bulk. If you are in touch with any other model railroad types, perhaps you can split a bag. 
Typically Hydrocal is used to build, "Hard Shell" scenery. Wadded up newspaper, cardboard strips, etc. form the basic mountain shape. Strips of cut up paper towels are dipped in the soupy Hydrocal, and laid across the form. Overlap the strips to form a strong shell. I used "Bounty" brand towels because they had a web of plastic fibers inside them. This made them strong enough to stay together when soaked with water/plaster mix. This process is very messy. That's the advantage of the plaster cloth, less mess. I agree though that Woodland Scenics plaster cloth is very expensive. Have you tried medical supply companies? Plaster cloth was originally used to make plaster casts for broken bones.

Good Luck
Traction Fan


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Id rather use plaster cloth, not only is it fairly easy to use but I have used it before. Im gonna do some research into where I can buy it. 

Thanks Traction Fan!

Look at what I found 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modrock-Plaster-of-Paris-Bandage-Bumper-Pack-36-rolls-/291697428455


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## RH1 (Jan 4, 2016)

Aminnich said:


> Id rather use plaster cloth, not only is it fairly easy to use but I have used it before. Im gonna do some research into where I can buy it.
> 
> Thanks Traction Fan!
> 
> ...


I bought a LARGE roll of plaster cloth from a local art supply store for $14. Much larger than any of the Woodland scenics stuff, and slightly thicker and better to work with as well.


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## Odyknuck (Dec 31, 2015)

Big Ed said:


> One word of caution about using *any kind of plaster product*.
> DON'T WASH THAT DOWN THE DRAINS, unless you thoroughly flush your drain pipes with a lot of water. Even washing your hands of the plaster be careful. You can plug up your pipes if your not careful. I use a 5 gal bucket to wash whatever I wash of the plaster then dump it outside in the back 40.
> 
> That being said,
> ...


You are correct I did post the wrong one. Its the one you show.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The Quilt Batting? 
Is that what you are calling the " shaper sheet"? :dunno:

Or is "shaper sheet" somethin different?


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

Big Ed said:


> The Quilt Batting?
> Is that what you are calling the " shaper sheet"? :dunno:
> 
> Or is "shaper sheet" somethin different?


No sorry, I watched a different video. But the quilt batting would be a good alternative too. Sorry for the confusion


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The quilt batting is a good ideal.


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

We used rolls of kitchen style chux wipes (like these ) I think over there they might be called handy dishcloth or something? 
anyway, we gave them a bath in small batches of plaster of paris mix. worked well, was cheap, but was a little messy.




Lehigh74 said:


> When I built a mountain 30 years ago, I used plaster cast cloth (same thing as what WS sells now, but only 4” wide). I got it at medical supply places. It was messy, but I’m thinking that using plaster and paper towels would be a lot messier.


drape the dry plastercloth where you need it and squirt it with a spray bottle. less mess.


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

Aminnich said:


> I'm wondering if their is an alternate product I can use? $20 for a roll isn't my cup of tea.


$20 for a roll of plaster cloth? I paid $8.00 for a roll at the local arts and supplies store. Never have I seen plaster cloth more than $10. 

Wow @ $20.

-J.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/PLSTRCLOTH/page/1

My hobby store has prices a little different


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## Ike8120 (Mar 5, 2016)

I used a product called Rigid Wrap can be purchased at a local craft store,Walmart, Target, etc. Cheaper then WS brand and worked just as well.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

I bought this last night. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modrock-Plas...-/291697428455


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## Ike8120 (Mar 5, 2016)

That seems like a pretty good deal. Keep us posted how it works out for you.


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## Aminnich (Nov 17, 2014)

turned out to be $38 including shipping. Im sure that box has some weight to it.


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## Mr.Buchholz (Dec 30, 2011)

Aminnich said:


> I bought this last night.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modrock-Plas...-/291697428455


Looks like a deal, except the seller doesn't ship to Canada.

:smilie_daumenneg: 

-J.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Mr.Buchholz said:


> ...the seller doesn't ship to Canada...


Yemen, not a problem.

Three hours Northeast of me, out of the question.

O.K., Six.


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