# My old train set



## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

Dad died recently and he always wanted me to get out my old train. It is O gauge, with KW transformer a Lackawana Diesel engine and a 2046 black engine, what is left of a stockyard and other cars. Getting a lot of smoke and heat at the power clip. Anyone know why that might happen? The diesel engine runs but haven't got the black one to work yet.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> Dad died recently and he always wanted me to get out my old train. It is O gauge, with KW transformer a Lackawana Diesel engine and a 2046 black engine, what is left of a stockyard and other cars. Getting a lot of smoke and heat at the power clip. Anyone know why that might happen? The diesel engine runs but haven't got the black one to work yet.



Sorry about "Dad".

Do you mean smoke at the rail?
At the connector? ( power clip?)


Or smoke from the engine?


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

I am 49 and have had this train since 1964. I played with it a bunch as a kid then put it away when I was 12 or 13. My nephew played with it some too. I just got it back out.

http://picasaweb.google.com/bigjohn390/Train#

Yes, smoke, get red, or white hot where the clip on the rail is.

The lockon clip.

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/pictures/track_o_ident.jpg


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> I am 49 and have had this train since 1964. I played with it a bunch as a kid then put it away when I was 12 or 13. My nephew played with it some too. I just got it back out.
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/bigjohn390/Train#
> 
> ...



With the train on or off? 
It gets hot with no train on? 
Or just when the train runs?


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

I think both.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> I think both.


you must have the correct wires hooked up if the train is running.

check for pieces of metal (an old track pin or something) stuck in the rail or loco.

do you have another lockon to check with?

or try taking the lockon off an jamming the wire under the rail without the lockon to see if it gets hot.

the circuit breaker should activate if it's getting red (white) hot.


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

the circuit breaker has come on a few times, not always though. Thanks I will try that.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> the circuit breaker has come on a few times, not always though. Thanks I will try that.


Are you sure you hooked up the wires right on the transformer?

Something is very wrong if it's getting red/white hot.


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

no, not sure. 

I have the wires hooked to the U and b on the transformer, 20 v side.


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

The engine runs ok now but stops on corners so I need a bigger layout and track layout work I think. It has stopped getting hot after I took the lockon off and cleaned and reattached it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> no, not sure.
> 
> I have the wires hooked to the U and b on the transformer, 20 v side.



I never had that transformer but found this,
the outer most terminals should be connected to your track. The top two terminals are the "U" terminals, and are internally connected together. These should be connected to your outer rails. The bottom left terminal is for the left handle, and the bottom right terminal is for the right handle. These should be connected to your center rails. The two center terminals provide fixed voltage


You got the U going to the outer rail?


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks big ed. That was it, wrong wire on outer!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> Thanks big ed. That was it, wrong wire on outer!



Try the 2046 now.

If it doesn't move work the e unit lever on top.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Check up around the wheels of the 2321 diesel for metal objects. That engine has magnetraction ( like a magnet) and could have picked up some stray metal around the gears and wheels. Also if anyone ever used steel wool it could have pieces of that up there too.

The 2046 has magnetraction too, check that one also.


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks, I will.


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

now the drive wheels are locked up on the big diesel, what would cause that?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> now the drive wheels are locked up on the big diesel, what would cause that?



Take the shell off and give the gears a good looking over.
As the magnetraction works like a magnet you could have a piece of metal in the gears, that's why I told you to look CLOSELY at the gears.

Twice now in this forum it has turned out to be a small piece of solder that found it's way in a tooth of the gears.

The gears got to go around to make the wheels go around.


It surprises me that no one answered you since last night.


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

ok, I checked from the bottom but couldn't see anything.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

bigjohn said:


> ok, I checked from the bottom but couldn't see anything.



The shell should come off by taking the 1 screw out?
I don't have that but most of the diesels shells are held on by the 1 screw.

Take it off and look at the teeth, each one, in the gears.


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## bigjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

two screws on the lackawana. When I take the wheel assembly off the wheels turn easily but when I reattach it it is still locked up. Is the motor seized up?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I can tell you worm drive wheels do not freely turn. Place two leads to the engine to test it. A lot of heat/vibration and no wheel motion then it is seized.
The steamers are the ones that have free movement on the drive wheels.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The lockon was getting hot due to a poor connection. This is a reminder to make sure that all your connections are clean and tight. The KW will deliver 150 watts or more to a load, and this is enough to get something like a lockon or wire very hot. I have 4 KWs, and when they see a short circuit, they just grunt until the circuit breaker finally opens. This may take a second or more, plenty of time to get something very hot. Don't think that just because the transformer output is only 20 volts that it cannot deliver enough power to start a fire. 
Bruce Baker


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Four? My Hero.:thumbsup:

Hot Tip!
When using old track out of storage you can feel the heat at poor connections along the track.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> The lockon was getting hot due to a poor connection. This is a reminder to make sure that all your connections are clean and tight. The KW will deliver 150 watts or more to a load, and this is enough to get something like a lockon or wire very hot. I have 4 KWs, and when they see a short circuit, they just grunt until the circuit breaker finally opens. This may take a second or more, plenty of time to get something very hot. Don't think that just because the transformer output is only 20 volts that it cannot deliver enough power to start a fire.
> Bruce Baker



Yes but he said he had them hooked backwards to the transformer.
Poor connection it was.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Hooking the wires backwards will not cause any harm. Neither the transformer nor the train know the difference. It only makes a difference if you are using the fixed voltage taps.

T-Man, what you say about worm drive not running free is only partially true. The 726/736/671 have worm drives and they should turn very freely. The F-3 diesels also have worm drives, and they should turn freely. The small diesels that have a vertical motor may or may not turn. My experience is that they will usually turn in one direction. If you take the brushes out, they turn very easily.
Bruce Baker


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Really! 
I don't have dem fancy engines. My F-3 is the horizontal drive shaft . In HO they are stubborn. To me a 2026 is free turning.It's good to know.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Hooking the wires backwards will not cause any harm. Neither the transformer nor the train know the difference. It only makes a difference if you are using the fixed voltage taps.
> 
> T-Man, what you say about worm drive not running free is only partially true. The 726/736/671 have worm drives and they should turn very freely. The F-3 diesels also have worm drives, and they should turn freely. The small diesels that have a vertical motor may or may not turn. My experience is that they will usually turn in one direction. If you take the brushes out, they turn very easily.
> Bruce Baker


I could hook the hot lead to the outside rail and the ground to the center and it would make no difference?
And the train would run?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

There is no polarity with AC. If you hook the transformer up "backwards" the motor doesn't know the difference. There are times when the polarity is important, however. The U terminal on a KW, V, Z, or ZW should normally be connected to the outside rail. On the KW there is a 20 volt fixed voltage that is referenced to the U terminal. I use this terminal for powering my 022 switches. If I hooked the U terminal to the center rail, this tap would not work for the fixed voltage for the 022 switches. 

The smaller transformers like the 1033 are wired differently from the larger transformers. For the 1033, wire the U terminal to the center rail and the A or B terminal to the outside rail. If you get this backwards, and all you are doing is running a train, no problem will occur.
Bruce Baker


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