# 50s 60s diesel oil tank cars



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm building loco service yard tank car diesel fuel offloading platforms.

I have tried to study pictures of actual cars, and of my
HO models. I can't determine whether the fuel is PUMPED
out of a port on top of the car, or drained using gravity or
pump from the bottom of the tank. Nothing is clear.

Anybody have actual experience with these cars?

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Actual experience, no. However, everything I've read suggests that the most common way to unload tank cars (containing liquids as opposed to gasses) is to let gravity do the work. Sometimes, a pressurizer hose is attached to the top to help force viscous liquids out.

The piping on the two cars I have had the opportunity to see up close supports this.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't think they really make a realistic tanker in any scale?
Maybe some of the brass models would show you.

Unless I am mistaken most of the oil tankers back then off loaded from a bottom center valve.
Even though you can't really see it, most of the tankers were conical, meaning that they sloped towards the center but they were not so noticeable just by looking at it. The valve was in the center of the bottom. You would either gravity or suck it off with a pump.

Today some of the tankers still off load that way, it all depends on what they are hauling. But instead of a pump they are pressurized either with air or depending on the product with nitrogen to push the product out of the top dome.

Most of the flammable liquids I suck out of today rail tankers have a pipe in the center of the dome that goes to the bottom. They drag a pump station and hook the hose up to the top to empty the car.

Why not just build some sort of platform and put some pumps and piping to the storage tanks?

Or you could build one of these to off load. Not much to it, a pump and electrical box, the chassis and wheels.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Note to John, see how the pictures are a little too large for the thread?
The site did not re-size them.:dunno:

Or are you saying these are the right size?
I do have to scroll a hair to read the thread.

I think they are too large, why don't I see that "click on the image" thing above them?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Here is a 3 hole tanker, notice the bottom valves? But this gets off loaded through the top too. If it doesn't have a drop down tube inside we stick a long portable aluminum tube down into the product to off load.












Notice this 2 hole tanker, it has bottom valves but offloads through the dome. I think the main reason for the bottom valves would be to wash the tanker out. Sometimes they fill with rust from the storage tanks. They might be cleaned so as not to contaminate the products too. Most of the one hole tankers that come in with a product get emptied and then just get reloaded with the same product unless they have a lot of rust in them. It saves on the cost of cleaning.


















Hmmm, I just noticed that the 2 hole is 2 different tankers, different numbers.
Twins...34003 & 34004 :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Note to John....picture not too large?
The site automatically sized this right too? :smokin:

I must be my "Quote" monitor "Quote", huh?

These pictures are from when I had my camera settings screwed up.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Techniquely unloading representations*

What ever seems plausible to you, pressurized or gravity. A suggested representation
would be enough for my technical needs. This is just my .02 cents worth. Nice pictures
for use in weathering reference though
tr1


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Techniquely unloading representations*

What ever seems plausible to you, pressurized or gravity. A suggested representation
would be enough for my technical needs. This is just my .02 cents worth. Have at it!
tr1


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I was just hoping to provide some rivets for our friends to count.

Everything that I could see on my tank cars and on the real
ones on line, especially the good close up pics
that Ed posted does agree with Ed who actually
does off load the cars using a pump through the dome. One
drawing pointed out that the valves under the car were
for clean outs.

I tried today to Googleearth Jacksonville's three railroad's loco service
areas. I see their big fuel storage tanks but there is no
clear view of where they offload tankers...or maybe I was
just ASSuming they delivered their own fuel via tank car. Gasp,
you mean to tell me that it's trucked in...

Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I know a guy that runs a business running tankers of fuel to freight locomotives.
He meets them on the rails somewhere. He has a bunch of tankers to re fuel all the long haul freight locomotives and does quite well.

One thing is that he has to maintain a strict delivery/meeting schedule. If a truck breaks down he has to load and get another there pronto.
Can't hold up the trains, most of the time he is there an hour before they show up.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't know the year Don. but I think it is too early for you, around 1915 I want to say.
Notice the rivets on the tanker.

Standard Oil Bayway, NJ ( the stinky plant right at x 13 of the Jersey pike. Later to become Exxon, now is Motivia/infinium.

Notice all the bottom hoses hooked up. Most of these unloading stations were a mess. Oil dumped all over, hoses drained right into the earth and water.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*Halling with tank cars are having longertrains these days.*

I had mentioned earlier, scratch building a tank car or so is a good way to save a little, while building up a fleet to go round and round on the layout I have here.Ive seen some 
pretty long tank trains in pictures though. I'll have to incorporate some unloading/loading
facilities. That is for another day/story. Regard's tr1


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tr1 said:


> I had mentioned earlier, scratch building a tank car or so is a good way to save a little, while building up a fleet to go round and round on the layout I have here.Ive seen some
> pretty long tank trains in pictures though. I'll have to incorporate some unloading/loading
> facilities. That is for another day/story. Regard's tr1


I have seen long lines of ethanol tankers parked along the Jersey pike waiting to be brought into Motivia in the Sewaren terminal, the old Shell facility.

Sometimes the line stretches all the way up the pike for over 5 miles, on two tracks.
The oil tank trains are just as long.

A nice weathered tanker starts this thread, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5388

Some old RR tankers being used for storage tanks on post 76 there.

Post 83 there is where I captured a real long John Deer tractor train going into the port of Baltimore. 
It went for miles!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Really good photos. thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> Note to John, see how the pictures are a little too large for the thread?
> The site did not re-size them.:dunno:
> 
> Or are you saying these are the right size?
> ...


Note to Ed, I'm indeed saying they're the maximum size we're specified, 1280 wide. I don't scroll to see them, maybe you need a better monitor. 

We can open this up for review if enough folks have an issue. Making them too small loses the detail and detracts from viewing. There's a line, and I'm not sure exactly where it crosses for most folks.


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## Dano (Aug 26, 2012)

Fine with me John, bigger the better!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's one for large pictures.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Note to Ed, I'm indeed saying they're the maximum size we're specified, 1280 wide. I don't scroll to see them, maybe you need a better monitor.
> 
> We can open this up for review if enough folks have an issue. Making them too small loses the detail and detracts from viewing. There's a line, and I'm not sure exactly where it crosses for most folks.


How are you determining the width?

When I click on the properties of my picture # P9110021 (That would be the second picture in post number 3 the other of mine are the same size) I get the following,

Dimensions 1600 x 1200
*Width 1600 pixels*
Height 1200 pixels

So my width is 320 pixels over the set max of 1280, that is why I have to scroll.

Nothing wrong with my monitor, it does it on my other computers too.
Yes, I can change my screen size so that I don't have to scroll, but them also the lettering will be smaller.

Maybe you have your monitor set different that is why there is no need for you to scroll?
Set the zoom to the normal position, it should be at 100%.
If I set my zoom at 90% then there is no need to scroll to read the sentences.

You do notice that some pictures have the bar above the picture to click to enlarge the picture?
Those have been re sized by the site.

And like I have said these pictures I am posting that are a bit too large are in my portable hard drive and were taken when my camera settings were screwed up. I have since fixed that and my newer pictures post fine now with the correct settings.

It doesn't bother me, I just set the zoom so I can read them then I reset the zoom for normal sized picture threads.
But........the site is* not* automatically resizing ALL pictures.
And some don't like that at all.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What can I say Ed, that's not what I see. I'm reading the thread and when I check the image info, I get this. Could be something on your computer that is making this happen.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That is weird. :dunno:

Says 1600 wide x 1200 high on my end.
The size is 408 KB, your is showing 255.51 KB?
The picture you show has some of it cut out, compare it to the one I have in.

Unless because your the mod your not seeing what we peons are?
Go to your undercover mode and see?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I suspect that the 'portable' tanker off load pumper station
is a tad too modern for my 50s 60s era layout. I have seen
a few of the trackside off loading platforms on line. They
appear to have facilities that swing out to the tank car dome,
with pipes connected to a ground mounted pump. Think that's
what I am going to try to build. 

Hope you can make out what I've drawn.









It's for a one car service.

Don


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## gunrunnerjohn2 (Dec 15, 2013)

big ed said:


> Note to John....picture not too large?
> The site automatically sized this right too? :smokin:
> 
> I must be my "Quote" monitor "Quote", huh?
> ...


I logged in as a standard user now, and I get the same thing, the size is 1280 x 960.

The reason there's only a part of the image is because I didn't clip the whole thing, no reason to do that as I was just trying to show the information.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn2 said:


> I logged in as a standard user now, and I get the same thing, the size is 1280 x 960.
> 
> The reason there's only a part of the image is because I didn't clip the whole thing, no reason to do that as I was just trying to show the information.


Strange? :dunno:

That is all I am going to say, I don't know the picture say 1600 w x 1200 w on my end? hwell::dunno:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't have a clue, I even opened it in IE to see if a different browser would change it, still comes up as 1280.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Don If you get those built post some build pics as I'm looking for the same thing, same era.

Magic


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Magic said:


> Don If you get those built post some build pics as I'm looking for the same thing, same era.
> 
> Magic



Will do. I've collected the materials and I'll take some progress
shots. May be a couple days in coming. 

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Well here's step 2 finished, (step one was the drawings)

I'm using the drawings protected by clear plastic as
templates and the pins make an easy glue jig.

These are the two main vertical supports.









The verticals are Evergreen Scale H column.
The cross members Evergreen Scale C channel

More coming soon.

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Here's step 3.









Measure, cut, and paint:

Mesh work floor.
Floor frame of L channels

Supporting [ channels

Railings. Railings will be
last to be installed. Must first
find suitable stairs or ladder
the cut railing to fit that.

Note also.\: Dimensions of work platform
determined by the railing design. I had
to enlarge mine from original size.

Assembly will come later.

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Seems like a lot of time for something
that at this point looks very small and
insignificant.

Anyway, here's step 4. Assemble the
work floor mesh with it's framing and
support beams, then attach to the
vertical support H columns.

I have added a 'conduit' to one of the
H columns. This will carry power to
strip LEDs that will be in ceiling of
the canopy.

Side view.









Top down.









Next I'll install the piping and
other fixtures needed for
off loading. Probably have one
or two work men doing something.

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Just about done.

Step 5, 6, 7, and who's counting?

After much shaking and repairing, somehow it all
came together except the not yet bought stairway

Here it is fully assembled, the strip LEDs under
the canopy are powered by the 9 volt battery
in front temporarily


You can see the two workers, one peering into the back
of the valve housing, the other sitting back and watching.
All of the fitting are repurposed: The Pump (lower level)
is a bushing from a defunct exhaust fan. The valve housing
is a horn hook coupler draft box. The hose to the car dome
is dental floss, nozzle a pin head.

Thought you could read the scale better with a tank car
next to it.















It is not as well done as I prefer. Had a lot
of problems getting things aligned and some
is not. 

It will go in the loco service yard on the layout
next to the already existing fuel storage tank.

Don


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Pretty shabby there Don, not up to your usual standards. You should just sent that thing to me and now that you have all that experience build you a proper one.   

Nice build and thanks for the how to. :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos: 
Bookmarked this thread for later. Since I'm re doing my layout it'll be some time before I ready for these. Got two good spots for them in the "No plan" plan. 

One question, on your plans I assume those are HO scale feet? 


Magic


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yep, HO scale feet. Note the metal HO scale ruler. It's a must
have if you do any scratch build.

The annoying thing is that I had it all in alignment and
damaged it during installation of the platform parts.
Clumsy, shaky old hands get out of control at times.

Don


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Very nicely done. I too am saving this idea for later and will build it in O scale. I've paid a lot of attention to this thread all along because I am repainting and labeling a set of fifteen identical 1950s tank cars (identical except for car #) for my layout, and this would be a nice thing to have with them. These are O-Gauge, Railking scale 10K cars from the '50s, which were various companies and colors but otherwise the same car, all bought on the cheap. I posted more about them and more photos in the thread "Fifteen Fine Tankcars" on the O-gauge part of this forum.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Lee

Thank you. Much appreciate your comments.

For a string of tank cars you would likely want a more
'expressive' platform such as some pictures here:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...=yhs-mozilla-001&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Just came from a meeting with ATSF bean counters. They say
the new fuel loading platform was way over budget. It'll do
for the East yard, because that's where the road engines
are serviced, but the West yard budget has been seriously cut.
It services only a pair of switchers.
They say, get some local yokels to saw some trees and
put up a much less expensive platform.

So it was back to the drawing board.









This one will be all wood construction, but basically
the same design, except no stairs, I have the ladders
on hand. Now gotta find the stuff to repurpose into
oil loading gear. I think it will be more interesting
to build and to see, if my shaky hands let me do it.

Ain't we got fun.

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

And the beat goes on.
The local yokels have been working
very slowly in the hot summer sun.

They first put up the main supporting posts
(in a glue jig)










Then set about attaching the
cross braces. (had to go to
Everygreen plastic to better
stay in scale).









Next will come assembling the
supports into a stable structure.

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Back to the first fuel oil off loading platform.
The expensive city workers on it finally
packed up their tools and left. The stairway
install and the railings complected. Here it
is finally finished, but still posed on the
work bench.

This is the side that faces to the car.









At an angle









Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What is the purpose of the red drum like piece with the silver top and the green pipe running up to the deck above serve?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Guess my fake was not very good, Ed...That's the 'pump' that pulls the oil from
the tank car and pushes it to the storage tank. It's actually a
bushing from a defunct exhaust fan with a phillips screw head as
it's top. I had originally planned another 'pipe' from it into the
ground but kinda let that pass.

So far I haven't found the item to repurpose for the second
platform I'm now building.

Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

DonR said:


> Guess my fake was not very good, Ed...That's the 'pump' that pulls the oil from
> the tank car and pushes it to the storage tank. It's actually a
> bushing from a defunct exhaust fan with a phillips screw head as
> it's top. I had originally planned another 'pipe' from it into the
> ...


OK, you need to add a unloading hose on the bottom then? Some fuel line that a lawnmowers fuel system uses might work nice? To get to the tankers valve, then just lay it out of the way when the tankers leave. 
Maybe add another sliver thing (screw) to the other side of your pump and then lay it down side ways? Maybe shorten the drum part too? Real pumps are not that large, cut it in half? 

Some racks have something like that so they retain drippings and it goes down to a drum. Then when it is full they ship the drum to a waste facility and add a new drum.
But back then they did not care about catching oil, it went all over the ground!
What did you make the thing on top of the rack out of? Where the pipe goes up top? Can't really see that in the picture.

I have an assortment of garbage and have been thinking of ways I can make some O gauge pumps. I know it is not that easy, and it is easier I think to do it in O then HO.

You know that most pumps would not pump it up to the top of the rack? About the only purpose of the racks are for venting the RR car, or most racks have a way to load RR cars too if needed. Most racks have a drop down cat walk that extends to the RR car. Maybe add one to your racks? You have an open spot on top to add one, I don't know how you could make it to go up and down? Do they sell little HO hinges? Or maybe you could use a straight pin through it on the platform side to let it go up and down? It would take some ingenuity engineering, but with a couple of drilled holes I think a cut straight pin could work as a hinge for a drop down cat walk?.
I don't see any in that old picture, they probably climbed the ladder to vent the cars?

Look at that old picture I posted, all the hoses from the tankers go to the pumps then go to the pipes on the ground (which are not shown) to the storage tanks.
There is always a critic in the house huh? 
You have to excuse me on am on a chemical/refinery/tanker/pipe/storage tank roll today.
I will go and find something else to do now, and stop with my suggestions.hwell:

The rack looks good:thumbsup:, I like how you plan it all out on paper too.:thumbsup:


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, Ed, I see that I took the pics without reinstalling the pipe and
hose that drops into the dome of the tank car.

This is a diesel fuel off loading platform for my loco service area
so the pump is pulling the fuel from the car and sending it
under ground to the storage tank just a short distance away.

I agree I need more piping there from the pump to the ground.
It was intended but I didn't do it. Still time to add it.

The large 'control' cabinet on the upper platform is an HO
Horn hook coupler draft box, The shank opening was just
perfect to insert the pipes.

Just like a typical layout, I guess it still is not finished.

Hey, we put our work out there to hear the opinion of
others. Critics are most welcome. You learn from them
too.

Don


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

DonR said:


> Yes, Ed, I see that I took the pics without reinstalling the pipe and
> hose that drops into the dome of the tank car.
> 
> This is a diesel fuel off loading platform for my loco service area
> ...


I was under the impression that you were making it for the 50's?
I don't think they unloaded from the top back then but I could be wrong.
All the pictures and info I could find seemed to look like they off loaded through the bottom valves. 

Today in our rail yard mostly everything is sucked out through the top.
Heavy or oily products are pumped out through the RR cars bottom valve using compressed air. We hook the hose from the bottom valve of the RR tanker to the bottom valve of the road tanker. Then I sit on top and stick measure the load on. Then when I get the desired amount we turn off the RR tankers valve and hook the air to the hose and blow it clean into the road tanker. Then we cap the hose, it is dedicated for that product. Not a drop goes on the ground.
With the air you can blow the lines clean and some of the heavier products will freeze in the winter. So using the air you don't have to worry about pumps or hoses freezing up. The tank cars are kept on steam in the winter.

There is a flammable/corrosive in the yard that uses nitrogen to pressurize the tanker to off load. We don't haul that. That is about the only thing that uses the nitrogen, as the corrosive is flammable you can't use compressed air. And blowing it off is safer and cleaner then pumping.

I thought you were making it to off load through the bottom, that is why I questioned as to what the pieces are.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes, it's the 50s/60s era. I did a lot of picture looking on line and it
appeared to me that the plumbing I saw on these off loading platforms
pulled the fuel from the dome. Possible to be wrong, and I may have
to do some additional plumbing to make a correction to bottom
off loading.

Got in more work on the 2nd platform to be of wood construction.

I also discovered some tips to aid scratch building things.

Draw your project on graph type paper with a visible grid. That
eases keeping things squared. It's a guide only, I use HO Scale
ruler for all measurements.

Tape the drawing to the desk over foam sheet,
then cover with clear plastic sheet.
Apply double stick tape over the drawing. That will hold the
tiny pieces in place as you build.

Use a glue jig with a 'bar' to assist in keeping edges even.
The pins thru the drawing into the foam hold it in place.

This is how I built the platform floor with what seemed a hundred
planks. It's partially done in this view.









After finishing, it was simple to glue the joists and frame to
the completed floor boards. That's the base the loosely
attached support structure in the background. I hope to
be able to trim the floor edge to make the boards even.









I'll be a little slow in getting to the assembly. I have to do 
some parts box searches for stuff that I can repurpose
as the gear on the platform

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

That small box of spare parts I got when I bought the
buildings from that estate is a treasure trove of
things to repurpose.

There is the rear end of some defunct car, another
horn/hook draft box, another loose brake wheel,
some interesting round plastic shapes, a couple
of breaker boxes, and some brass tubing. That
will come together to create the controls, the plumbing,
filter and pump to send the fuel on to the storage
tank. What great fun do us kids have.









The unfinished frame for the gable roof is in
the background.

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Well finally. It's done.

Frustrating. I try to add some part, shaky fingers
damage another. It went that way the last few days.

Not as good as I like, but here is the West Yard
loco service area diesel fuel tank car off loading
platform. Posed on workbench. It's HO scale, 20 feet long
and 10 feet wide, that's about 2 inches long so you
can get the scale.

The 9 volt battery is lighting the upper level only. 

I hope you can see the interior fittings
on the lower level the red pump and it's
top mounted white motor, adjacent filter.

On the platform level are the flow
meter, valves and plumbing to
the car dome. 

And all of it just this and that spare
parts that I though sorta looked like
what would be on such a platform.
You can see a close up of those parts
in post #44 above.

This is the car facing side.










And this is the other side.










This view of the ladder end.









and this is a straight on view
of the car side.









I hope this will finally bring to a conclusion this
saga that went on far too long.

I enjoyed it tho. Hope it inspires some of
you to show your much better craftsmanship
and make things.

Don


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## Undermidnight (Jul 23, 2015)

I will be doing a 50s-60s era layout myself and one of the things I would like to have on the layout is something like this. I have never scratch built before but I plan to.

Thanks for sharing!

Jason


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You mean you didn't make it actually pump off the battery? 

Look great Don.:smilie_daumenpos: 
I tried to blow it up a little for you, lets see what happens.











A little better? The darn rails and supports are in the way.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The other side,


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Wow

Any bigger and I'd need a permit to place it on the layout.

Thanks Ed.

Don


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Undermidnight said:


> I will be doing a 50s-60s era layout myself and one of the things I would like to have on the layout is something like this. I have never scratch built before but I plan to.
> 
> Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Jason


Jason

You'll find that scratch building is one of the most rewarding
parts of modelling. You get to use your creative juices and
put your craftsmanship to work.

By all means get an HO Scale ruler. It's what makes it
all much easier. You can take real feet and inche dimensions, then
draw and cut in HO (or whatever) Scale feet and inches.

Don


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