# Interested in Williams Scale Hudsons...Are They Any Good?



## California RailFan508 (Jul 2, 2013)

My local model railroad store *(The Western Depot in Yuba City)* is having a huge sale on the Scale-Sized Williams By Bachmann 4-6-4 Hudsons (O-42 Min. Radius) until the end of the month. Seeing that these locomotives (usually $769.95, *marked down to $425.00*) have been reduced to a price-range that I can afford, I am seriously considering making an investment in either the Great Northern Hudson (pictured at bottom of post) or the Santa Fe Hudson.

Before I take the plunge and decide if I do indeed purchase my 1st steam locomotive larger than O-27 scale, I wanted to ask the community the following questions that I have:

1. How good do the scale Hudsons that Williams (now Williams By Bachmann) made perform? I am looking for a smooth-running locomotive that is reliable and performs well.

2. Are they great pullers? I intend to have it pull a consist of 13 to 15 cars (counting caboose) around my layout when I begin work on my 144" by 120" layout this summer on my O-60 FasTrack main line.

3. If anybody here has owned one or used one, what was your overall experience/opinion of the scale Hudsons? What did you like or not like about it? 


*Link to Locomotives I Am Talking About: *http://www.westerndepot.com/index.php/cPath/21_503_265_365_375

*Image: *









*Thanks in advance,
California Railfan508* :smilie_daumenpos:


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I don't have the Williams Hudson but do have a Berkshire 
and it runs very well and will easily pull 15 cars.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

No Hudson but if its anything like my Berk, I'd have no hesitations buying one. Very smooth, good smoke, heavy as all heck.

My Berk has already been dropped nose first on a hardwood floor by my 20month old son. My son's feelings were hurt more than the engine - didn't have a scratch on it. This from about a 1' drop.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

My experience with Williams is 'you get what you pay for'. I have had durability issues with everything Williams I ever owned. My most recent purchase was a 4-8-4 Blue Goose Hudson I purchased as an 'affordable' add-on to my collection because my wife really liked the looks and the MTH premier version was way out of budget. One thing Williams does is cut corners to bring the price down and the Hudson came with a plastic front end that chipped and cracked after a few days of running.  Also the sleuth smoke unit burns up fluid rather quickly and is inferior to a common postwar conversion fluid smoke unit.
I also own a couple of their GG1s because they look great and I have a display of GG1 models. (I do not run them).

To summarize, my opinion of Williams is they run well and look good out of the box but if you have a choice between Lionel postwar or Williams go with Lionel.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Williams stuff is normally very durable, but I don't like the Seuthe smoke units, they don't chuff, spit oil, and have anemic smoke output. I have a number of Williams diesel units, they've been good runners and great pullers.


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## California RailFan508 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks for the opinions and responses, everyone. I looked up some videos of the Hudson in action and read some reviews, but something else has caught my eye. I have decided that I will pass on getting one of the discounted Williams by Bachmann Scale-Sized Hudsons and will look into one of *K-Line's Scale-Sized 4-6-6T with TMCC* (see bottom of post) locomotives next month when it goes on sale. The hobby shop is marking down their stock of K-Line inventory, so I'll look into those locomotives instead (for roughly the same price).


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You went from a Hudson to a tank engine? 

FWIW, I have that engine in another road name, it's a great little runner. Mine is a CNJ, and the detailing on it will certainly exceed the Williams units. I have the TMCC with cruise model as well.


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## California RailFan508 (Jul 2, 2013)

I decided to go with the other engine since it has TMCC and will work with the Legacy system that I plan to eventually upgrade to from the 2 CW-80 controllers I own. The Hudson seemed nice, but I was not impressed with the smoke output and since I already own a Lionel Hudson Jr. (2001 4-6-4 Santa Fe O-27), I decided to look into the 4-6-6T. Should look good pulling freight around my layout when my work starts this summer on it.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

CRF,

I do not have that loco but a friend had one.Ran very well,has nice detail and looks great.
My opinion of course.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I agree with your assessment, it's a great looking little unit, I really like mine.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I have nothing bad to say about K-lines late scale offerings. They were well made and ran well.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

K-line just priced them too low to make enough money to stay in business. Sad deal, as they were making some great stuff right before they tanked.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Definitely K Line . Good luck!


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## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

BigAl56 said:


> One thing Williams does is cut corners to bring the price down and the Hudson came with a plastic front end that chipped and cracked after a few days of running.


I'm really curious as to how simply running the locomotive caused the front nose cone on the Williams J class Northern to crack? I have one painted like a Lionel Postwar 746, and it's built just like that. Outside of the can motor and electronics, the rest of the locomotive is built just like the postwar Lionel units, if not better. Holding the chassis next to my postwar 736 berkshire chassis, there aren't too many differences. I also have the Williams 773 scale hudson and it is also built very well. Although it's geared a bit high and runs pretty fast with little power.


I think you'll be very happy with the K-Line locomotive. It's one I've thought about purchasing myself many times before something else ends up finding its way home with me :laugh:


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

I have one of those Williams Hudsons and it for dang sure ain't a Lionel. Gave only $350 for it, wouldn't pay more. I had to replace the locomotive-to-tender wiring harness twice, and both harnesses had the same failure. I finally ended up repairing the defective harness myself and now the loco runs OK. It's OK for such a cheep loco, but I would much rather have a Lionel of course.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I have not seen a Williams Hudson ior other type with loco to tender wiring.

Possibly the older brass models had that.I don't know.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

rogruth said:


> I have not seen a Williams Hudson ior other type with loco to tender wiring.
> 
> Possibly the older brass models had that.I don't know.


This is a loco made in the mid 1990's, one of their early die-cast scale Hudsons. It has a DCRU in its tender that runs the loco. I have an old brass Williams Mikado too, but no harness problem with it. As I understand it, that wiring harness issue is a common one with those Hudson locomotives.


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

I don't think the ones after maybe 2000 have that.
I don't think I have seen the "early die-cast".I have seen the brass and the new stuff.Thank you for the info.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

rogruth said:


> I don't think the ones after maybe 2000 have that.
> I don't think I have seen the "early die-cast".I have seen the brass and the new stuff.Thank you for the info.


You are most certainly welcome, Conductor. Yeah, this loco was made some time shortly before 2000. It is really a repro of a Lionel 773 Hudson in PRR livery. Pretty piece. It was shortly after Williams came out with that first die-cast steam loco (everything before then was nice brass). My harness problem is probably just from an early production run of bad harnesses. I managed to repair it all right with my soldering iron, now the loco runs fair. Might run as good as my Lionels and Williams brass Mikado once it breaks in good. My favorite mfr. is Lionel, but I cannot resist steals like the one I got on this pretty Williams loco. A 773 repro for only $350 !


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## rogruth (Mar 6, 2012)

My name is Roger.
Always wanted to be a conductor.Now I see I finally made it.
But alas,only on this forum.


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## FredH (Jul 16, 2014)

*Willams O Scale Hudson*

I won a scale NYC Hudson on Ebay for $280, and it has been running heavy duty times on our HTOS layout in Houston with no problems. It has run from 1 PM to 5 PM several times. It never gets hot. The smoke unit leaves a lot to be desired, so it you want one that smokes well, then it must be modified or buy a different brand.
Hope this helps.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Williams steamers scream out to have a fan driven smoke unit retrofitted!  After an upgrade, they can smoke like this.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

That Hudson uses a Seuthe #5 low-voltage smoke generator. It is equipped with a voltage regulator for that #5 unit. I robbed the original out of my Williams Hudson (while that loco was awaiting repair from me) and installed in in another loco that also uses that same generator, and it never worked well for some reason. So I installed brand-new Seuthe #5 generators in both locos, and now they both smoke like mad - huge volumes of smoke. The only thing about the Williams Hudson is that there is no cut-off switch for the smoke unit, and you HAVE to keep that delicate Seuthe generator full of smoke fluid at all times while there is voltage on the track - or else the smoke unit will go dry and burn up. I just ordered a tiny little slide switch from Newark which I will install in my Williams Hudson smoke unit circuit, so I may cut the unit off when not using the smoke.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Williams steamers scream out to have a fan driven smoke unit retrofitted!  After an upgrade, they can smoke like this.


That MTH fan-driven unit is nice, but the one I have in my Railking 0-8-0 would only function at higher voltages and unrealistic speeds. Then it just failed on me, sounded like the fan went bad..... I need to do something about it now that I've gotten everything else repaired !


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Fan motors are cheap, $6. I stock them, though I use more of them in Lionel Legacy locomotives, not that many MTH motors end up going bad. I've only replaced a couple in MTH locomotives out of at least 100 serviced.

Truthfully, I have very few issues with MTH smoke units, most of my work on them is replacing the wick where they have run dry and cooked it.

I don't know which 0-8-0 you have, if it has PS/2 or PS/3, it should smoke good at most any speed.

I presume you're running conventional and not command, right?

FWIW, that Camelback has my new Super-Chuffer control board installed.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Fan motors are cheap, $6. I stock them, though I use more of them in Lionel Legacy locomotives, not that many MTH motors end up going bad. I've only replaced a couple in MTH locomotives out of at least 100 serviced.
> 
> Truthfully, I have very few issues with MTH smoke units, most of my work on them is replacing the wick where they have run dry and cooked it.
> 
> ...


John, it is an older loco with no sound system, just the smoke. One of the very first Railking locos. So it was not a low-voltage unit or it would have smoked "like a freight train" at very low speeds. It has no DCC either, so it runs only conventional I want to upgrade all my non-DCC locos to DCC, so I could do that to the 0-8-0 and replace trhe smoke unit with an updated lower voltage one.
Do you happen to know of a good vendor from which to obtain my parts ?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, the old conventional units are the same as the PS/1 locomotive smokers, at least most of them are. What is the exact model of the locomotive? Are you talking about converting to DCC or DCS?

I can get you MTH parts, as you know, I'm an MTH ASC.


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, the old conventional units are the same as the PS/1 locomotive smokers, at least most of them are. What is the exact model of the locomotive? Are you talking about converting to DCC or DCS?
> 
> I can get you MTH parts, as you know, I'm an MTH ASC.


I don't know what the exact cat# of the locomotive is, it is just a C & NW 0-8-0 that came in one of the first Railking (C & NW) 0-8-0 freight sets. What is the difference between DCC and DCS ? I just need a digital control and a nice audio board and any replacement wiring harnesses (if needed). If I use the MTH upgrade, I would have to purchase a MTH controller. Thing is, I already have a couple of Lionel Command locos. I could upgrade the loco with a universal upgrade that works on Lionel's Command system; and do all the other locos the same.....


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## wsboyette (Jan 25, 2014)

Here's my Williams Hudson, repaired now and smoking like a forest fire...... I am thoroughly pleased with its performance now !


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

wsboyette said:


> I don't know what the exact cat# of the locomotive is, it is just a C & NW 0-8-0 that came in one of the first Railking (C & NW) 0-8-0 freight sets. What is the difference between DCC and DCS ? I just need a digital control and a nice audio board and any replacement wiring harnesses (if needed). If I use the MTH upgrade, I would have to purchase a MTH controller. Thing is, I already have a couple of Lionel Command locos. I could upgrade the loco with a universal upgrade that works on Lionel's Command system; and do all the other locos the same.....


If you have TMCC, the upgrade route is probably the ERR Cruise Commander and RailSounds Commander. DCS would require buying the DCS system, and DCC would be a can of worms on 3-rail O-gauge.

DCC and DCS at two totally different command systems. You don't find DCC on O-gauge 3-rail setups, at least it would be very rare.

If this is the C&NW cab #65, here's the product page: 30-1112-0 C&NW 0-8-0

It came with and without ProtoSound, but they all had the fan driven smoke. With a little work, that can smoke like a chimney!


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