# Old, old NY Central, What do I have?



## KidAllOverAgainNJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Hi guys,

Being my first one, I'm sure this is going to be a pretty typical post. 

I was cleaning out my attic the other day and beign a child of the late 80's and 90's, I found my Ho tains. Mixed in with mine I found an old NY Central that had to belong to my uncles who are now in their mid 60's. i know it's a Gilbert American Flyer, but I haven't been able to find any info about it online and nothing on ebay matched 100%.

So can anyone tell me what I've got here?

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t179/paintballmatt/Trains/









Also, can anyone tell me where to solder the wires back onto the locomotive's motor and what parts are missing? (The wires became disconnected form both the tender and engine.) I really want this guy to be our Christmas train set. I think I'm hooked all over again.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

KidAllOverAgainNJ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Being my first one, I'm sure this is going to be a pretty typical post.
> 
> ...


HO, There was one on e bay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-Gilbert...5-Hudson-Engine-tender-SUPER-EX-/251152085106


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

31005 NYC 4-6-4 (the wheel arrangement) Made 1960.
Your missing wheels it looks like, for under the cab.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Do you have the wheels for the front?

Up front there are 4-you have the 6- under the back your supposed to have- 4 more.
That would be the 4-6-4 wheel arrangement. (I don't know if you understand the 4-6-4 terminology.)


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## KidAllOverAgainNJ (Oct 3, 2012)

big ed said:


> Do you have the wheels for the front?
> 
> Up front there are 4-you have the 6- under the back your supposed to have- 4 more.
> That would be the 4-6-4 wheel arrangement. (I don't know if you understand the 4-6-4 terminology.)




I didn't and was wondering what it had meant. thanks very much for the help. And i guess i really stink at Ebay-ing.

Now i just need to find someone that can tell me how to work on them. I can see where wires came off of, but that one sticking straight up, and not wanting to put posi ont he neg post has me stopped dead on my tracks.


EDIT: I don't have the wheels. I'm missing quite a biot i believe. It's going be a nightmare finding them isn't it?

Crossng my fingers.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

KidAllOverAgainNJ said:


> I didn't and was wondering what it had meant. thanks very much for the explanation! And i guess i really stink at Ebay-ing.
> 
> Now i just need to find someone that can tell me how to work on them. I can see where wires came off of, but that one sticking straight up, and not wanting to put posi ont he neg post has me stopped dead on my tracks.
> 
> Crossng my fingers.



I am not sure about the wire, let the question sit a while maybe someone will know. I never had an American Flyer HO. 
I will go and see if I can find some info on it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Maybe you can find something here,
http://www.gilbertho.org/

in there is this page,
http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album215

It does have HO diagrams but I think you need to know the model #?

I read somewhere that HO American Flyers were built the same as their cousins in S gauge. The same principal. The second link does have diagrams along with the wiring diagrams.

Edit,

I think some wires go to the tender? I am not sure though, like I said I never had any.


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## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

Check out the "World of Steam" thread, there's info, on them there. I know, I posted half of it. It's about between Page 10 and 13 so. -


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

Morning Kid. What you need here is a diagram of the engine. Without something to show you how the engine goes together you can't tell what's missing or what goes where. Follow up on the links that Ed has posted and see what you can come up with. The only other thing I can think of is to buy another just like it in good operating condition to use as an example of how your engine should look. Once you know what your looking for you can start searching for the missing parts. Ebay will be your best bet for them. 
What you have there now is commonly known as a "Basket case" so this will be an interesting thread to watch. Hope you'll keep us posted with your progress.
I would suggest that you talk with Shay who is a member here. He can probably help you more with this than anybody. Pete


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## Stillakid (Jan 12, 2010)

Thomas Seccia of Triple "S" Supplies(Gilbert Reproductions, Inc.) might be a source. I have his Parts & Service Manual and it has an exploded view of a Gilbert, HO 151. Appears to be the same 4-6-4 N.Y.C. as you have.
Here's his web page. It's under construction, put has more contact info there.

http://www.ssstrains.com/

contact at [email protected]


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

HO 151...., it should not be too hard to get the parts you need. Then again as it is HO I don't really know.
This is from that site.......http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album215/HO_151_2?full=1 There is a part list to for reference on the part numbers also.


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## KidAllOverAgainNJ (Oct 3, 2012)

*My best guess*

Wow fellas, this is more than could have imagined. Thanks very much, especially you Ed. I'll start sifting through right now. About being a "basket case" (love that by the way) I didn't think this thread was anything special, but now that i know people are interested I'll try and keep you all updated. Just hope i have somethignt o update you all with.

As for some of the details: you nailed it Ed, the current is picked up by the tender and passed to the engine via two thin gauge wires. They look like a 26 maybe, very fine stuff. But they _are _original, which is cool.

Electrics are not my area but i'm no stranger to projects so I'm giving you all my "best guesses" here. There are two places that show wires have been broken off, and a 3rd spot where a bit is still attatched. Then there's an offset arm which can be seen sticking up in the photos. 

This _arm_ is riveted to the _tooth gear_, that sits on top of the eletric motor's _drive worm gear_. So when the train is running this arm is reciprocating front to back exactly like those on the 6 wheels in the 4-6-4. (Sorry, don't know the technical terms.)

It's also clear that i'm missing some sort of device that gets mounted towards the front of the locomotive and is driven by this arm. I don't know for sure, but from what I can see after adding everything up, looks like a bell or some kind of smoke or steam thingy.. 

I'm missing a tone of hardware, both of the 4's in the 4-6-4, and anything that would have gone in the cab. And i broke the "beard" or plow that would have mounted to the very front. (again, terminology)

As for paint and overall condition, it's in surprisingly good shape now that i think about it. No damage that i can find, just light use. After this i'll have to pull out the "Mar Toys" lionel gauge steam engine i just dug out that looks even older.


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## KidAllOverAgainNJ (Oct 3, 2012)

I'll take some well lit before and after shots too. I love this stuff...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

KidAllOverAgainNJ said:


> Wow fellas, this is more than could have imagined. Thanks very much, especially you Ed. I'll start sifting through right now. About being a "basket case" (love that by the way) I didn't think this thread was anything special, but now that i know people are interested I'll try and keep you all updated. Just hope i have somethignt o update you all with.
> 
> As for some of the details: you nailed it Ed, the current is picked up by the tender and passed to the engine via two thin gauge wires. They look like a 26 maybe, very fine stuff. But they _are _original, which is cool.
> 
> ...


Your welcome, I try to help. But what you have I never fooled with yet.
Thank Stillakid (Jim), he is the one that said #151 looked like it. I just pulled the picture from that site.
Here is the part list with corresponding numbers so you can identify the parts by names.
Take note we do not know if this is your engine, Jim said it looks like it.
But I did see it said that the HO's run on the same principals as the S gauge locomotives.
Stillakid (Jim) would be the one to question about fixing the Gilbert.
Don't be afraid to ask, someone should help you out.
Edit,
The "thing" your missing from the front might be the smoker unit?
If you need parts we have a list of people that won't burn you or charge an arm and leg.

The list is from here, http://myflyertrains.org/gallery/album215/HO_151_3


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## KidAllOverAgainNJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Long time no see, fellas. Thanks for all the additional info and i'll have to hunt down this "Shay" for wiring help. I dsaw the diagram in the above link but it ment absolutely nothing to me not knowing my electric stuff. 

Been a while but here it is.

My parts list:
(I'm looking for original stuff, not repainted items or anything like that. Just trying to keep it as pure as i can given the sentimental value. Looking for new old stock, then plain jane original parts, then reproductions)

Missing Parts
1. Smoke Tube
4. S-O Screw
5. Pilot
8. S266 Screw
9. Smoke Box Assembly
10. Piston
11. Piston Pin
20. Brush Holder Assembly
22. Motor assembley
22A. Armature bearing and Worm assembly
25. W46 Washer
26. S2 Screw
27. PA887 Spring
28. W6 washer
29. Leading Track Assembley
30. Leading Truck Screw
31. S14 Screw
32. PA10103 Washer
35. Main Rod Spacer
36. Main Rod Screw
40. Side Rod Screw
41. Side Rod
42. PA7421 Screw
43. P9275 Spring
44. Draw Bar Screw
45. Trailing Truck Assembley
46. Jack Panel
47. 6-1/2" Lead Wire
48. 3-1/2" Lead wire
49. Male Plug

Yeah, she's a long one.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Keep hounding eBay for those 4-6-4 clunkers! They are hard to find parts for at times and do sell high depending on what it belongs to. I have a 0-6-0 and a second one in the shop. They run great!


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## norgale (Apr 4, 2011)

That rod that goes through the red thing(weight?) might be something that will generate a choo choo sound when the engine is running. Might be something missing that it conects to. Pete


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

KidAllOverAgainNJ said:


> Long time no see, fellas. Thanks for all the additional info and i'll have to hunt down this "Shay" for wiring help. I dsaw the diagram in the above link but it ment absolutely nothing to me not knowing my electric stuff.
> 
> Been a while but here it is.
> 
> ...



Giving this post a bump.
I know nothing about HO Flyers.:dunno:

This is HO American Flyer and Matt asked me for some names that won't take him for a ride on parts. 
Stillakid did give you a link Matt, did you try him? Even though it looks like his site is under construction.

Do any of you Flyer guys know of a reputable person that can supply the parts he needs?
I don't think the train tender has HO Flyers parts. Does anyone have HO Flyers?

Sorry for the delay in answering Matt, I have been busy.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Gonna have to use eBay kidallover. Nobody makes re-prod. parts for Flyer/AC HO. It's gonna take patience.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

THE TYCO MAN said:


> Gonna have to use eBay kidallover. Nobody makes re-prod. parts for Flyer/AC HO. It's gonna take patience.


He might as well buy one that is in decent shape and save his for future parts.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

One more BUMP.
Though kidallover is silent, I am curious.
Anyone?
King of S? 
Flyer HO?


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## KidAllOverAgainNJ (Oct 3, 2012)

*Sorry for the wait.*

I've been allover ebay and I'veseen some GREAT auctions but i keep losing them, aka, forgetting about them!


When i first started this project i was using the wrong search criteria, but now I'm seeing that hudson stuff pops up pretty regularly. I'm just waiting for the 45th "right one for me" to come around again. Once i get ahold of pa parts train, I'll take some high qual pictutres of my whole restore project step by step and start a new thread about the whole experience. I'll toss a link in here for it once i do. 

I've already slapped together a photo booth for pics, done the lighting, and taken a fair bit of super high res closeup "before and afters". It'll be a little while till it all get's worked out but It'll happen.

Thanks fellas, this being my first time getting involved with trains, let alone ones as old as this, and then restorijng one has certainly ben a learning experience. I definitely feel like I've earned myt stripes thus far. The wealth of info shared here was key in that. 

Talk to you again in a few weeks!
Matt


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Once more, keep looking! I have seen a clunker Hudson on eBay.


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