# Advice on Restoring Postwar Lionel, Complete Newb Here



## Guitarzan (Feb 22, 2015)

Hey guys, I hope this is a distinctive enough thread for the mods (and in the right place). I tried to search for older threads that might help me out, but to no avail. Here's what I've got going on:

I've inherited a deceased uncle's childhood model train. A decent one, as far as I can tell. I'm very interested in getting it up and going, as well as dabbling in the hobby, but I have no clue where to begin. I'm a little surprised, this can be a pretty overwhelming hobby at first. This is what I know at this point:

1. It's a 57-56 postwar Lionel set with a 628 "44 Tonner" along a Baby Ruth Box Car, a couple of flatbed-looking cars, and a caboose. The boxcars are all in various states of disrepair. The 628 appears to be in pretty good condition, aside from missing one of the springs that holds in the switcher, but I don't actually know if it works and don't have any way of knowing(that I know of).
2. No power source or controller, forgive my lack of knowledge here as I don't know much about what all you actually need to make the train go.
3. I have about a dozen pieces of 027 track that went with it, but I'm really not sure if they're salvageable. They're pretty rusty, and I'm not sure if it's worth my time to try to clean them up when 027 seems to be pretty cheap on ebay. There is also a single piece of remote control track.
4. I believe that's all I have. I assume I'm missing a fair amount of parts and such, but I'm new to this and no one else in the family knows anything more about it, so I have no Idea what I may or may not be without.

I'm not in any huge hurry or anything, and I don't expect you guys to walk me through rebuilding the whole set. I consider myself to be very technically inclined, but as I said before, this whole hobby is pretty overwhelming so I'm mostly just looking for some direction in where to begin with making this thing functional again. What should I start with? Where are some good places to shop, both on and off line? And perhaps some recommendations on literature? I hope this isn't too much to ask, and thank in advance guys.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Guitarzan said:


> Hey guys, I hope this is a distinctive enough thread for the mods (and in the right place). I tried to search for older threads that might help me out, but to no avail. Here's what I've got going on:
> 
> I've inherited a deceased uncle's childhood model train. A decent one, as far as I can tell. I'm very interested in getting it up and going, as well as dabbling in the hobby, but I have no clue where to begin. I'm a little surprised, this can be a pretty overwhelming hobby at first. This is what I know at this point:
> 
> ...


Hello & welcome to the site.
This is what you have, I have one.
http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_628_diesel.htm

Bookmark that site is has your cars too.

First thing I would do is clean the track and get a power supply (transformer), that is AC. Depending on how big of a layout will determine how many watts you want.
The top of the rails only need to be nice and clean to test it out.
Take a kitchen green brite boy pad and use some Naphtha or even WD-40 and just clean the top rail. If you use wd after your done wipe them down with some rubbing alcohol.

Here is a good site for someone who is new to O gauge. Bookmark that too?
http://thortrains.net/manualx.htm

A lot of your questions can be explained there, the basics.

But by all means don't be afraid to ask something here, I am just trying to get you going.
A lot of other sites wouldn't even have the time to help a new guy, not here just ask someone should know.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

See the one screw on the cab? Pop that off and lift the shell up and off and take a look in there. You will see 2 clips that hold the shell on the other side. Just slide the shell forward a little and it will come right off easy.
Note, WHEN YOU SCREW IT BACK ON DON'T OVER TIGHTEN THE SCREW. The shell will crack, a lot of other locomotives will too. Keep that in mind.
Post some pictures here we might see something that needs fixing just by looking at the picture.

Not much under the shell, not hard to work on if it needs it.
You have a motor, a light bulb and the other thing is called an e unit. It changes the direction, sometimes these need a little work. But until you get a power supply just leave that alone for now.
On top of the motor you see an oil a little 5/20 weight cars motor oil will go there. If you pop the 2 screws off the brush plate the inside will probably need some cleaning.
But for now don't do anything till you see if it goes. You can add a drop of oil in that oil fill spot. Don't over oil just a drop. If you don't have 5/20 another weight of motor oil is fine for now.
If you look under the motor truck (the wheels) you will see some gears if they are fairly clean already just add a few drops of oil there too.

If you take the shell off take some good pictures of the frame top and bottom and post them.
If you have problems posting pictures ask.

I got you started, I may have to leave for a little while, but eventually I come back.
Others should chime in too.:smokin:


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Guitarzan, 

Big Ed gave you two sites to check out, and to get a handle on the basics of the hobby, go to the Thor site, it has excellent info for beginners. The set or lack thereof that you have is Set# 1545 (also #701) issued in 1956 only, with the following items:

628 Northern Pacific center cab
6424 flatcar with automobiles
6014 Baby Ruth boxcar
6025 Gulf single dome tank car
6257 SP (Southern Pacific) type caboose
8 curved track & 3 straight track
(1) 6029 uncoupling section of track
1015 45-watt transformer

Welcome to the forum, and most here will gladly offer help, just have to ask.


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## Guitarzan (Feb 22, 2015)

Hey guys, thanks so much for the help so far. Wow, what a friendly place! While I am currently reading over/though my assignments, I am curious, is it worth my time or money for any reason to look for a used transformer, or would that be an item that they've improved over the years and I'm just better off with a new one? Pics of the locomotive to follow soon...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

big ed said:


> Hello & welcome to the site.
> This is what you have, I have one.
> http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_628_diesel.htm
> 
> ...





Guitarzan said:


> Hey guys, thanks so much for the help so far. Wow, what a friendly place! While I am currently reading over/though my assignments, I am curious, is it worth my time or money for any reason to look for a used transformer, or would that be an item that they've improved over the years and I'm just better off with a new one? Pics of the locomotive to follow soon...


...............................See above in red and blue.
There are plenty of good old transformers out there for sale.
The larger the table will determine what you should get.
A small table? A large table? Just under a Christmas tree?

What are your plans?:dunno:

You could start out with an 80 watt and if you need a larger one get it and use the 80 for accessories.

Or you could get a 600 watt and be set for a long time.

Need to know what your plans are.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Guitarzan, The list of what the #1545 set contained was just for your reference, basically to inventory what you have on hand, versus what the set consisted of. The 1015 transformer is a very basic transformer, and only supplies track power (not whistle control, etc.). It comes down to how far you intend to go with what you have, and any plans on expanding your inventory. Are there any plans on building a layout; buying more trains; i.e. another engine, more cars????

If the intent is to get more involved with adding to what you have already, and a possible layout, I would suggest getting something like a Postwar KW transformer, which is 190 Watts, runs 2 trains, has whistle control. IT all depends on what you plan. You definitely need a transformer, which HAS TO BE AC NOT DC to run Postwar Lionel trains. DC transformers are used in HO and smaller gauges, and will not work with Lionel O gauge. 

Keep reading, and any questions, just ask, and someone will give you an answer.


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## Guitarzan (Feb 22, 2015)

Wow... okay.

Let's see here...

_"3. I have about a dozen pieces of 027 track that went with it, but I'm really not sure if they're salvageable. They're pretty rusty, and I'm not sure if it's worth my time to try to clean them up when 027 seems to be pretty cheap on ebay. There is also a single piece of remote control track."

"6257 SP (Southern Pacific) type caboose
8 curved track & 3 straight track
(1) 6029 uncoupling section of track"_

This would be the parts that should have given anyone reading them some general idea of the size of layout I might be dealing with for the time being.

_"I'm very interested in getting it up and going, as well as dabbling in the hobby..."

"...so I'm mostly just looking for some direction in where to begin with making this thing functional again."_

These were the parts that should have given most people reading an idea what my plans were. And these were the parts that led me to believe I would be able to ask questions here without encountering judgement or sarcasm...

_"But by all means don't be afraid to ask something here, I am just trying to get you going.
A lot of other sites wouldn't even have the time to help a new guy, not here just ask someone should know."

"Welcome to the forum, and most here will gladly offer help, just have to ask."_

I suppose it may have been my fault for not being clear enough when I put "Complete Newb" in the thread title. Or perhaps I was not specific enough when I used words like "money", to indicate a financial concern between buying a small used supply for $30, or spending $120 on a modernized digital one? Or a term like "time" if i was concerned about wasting any on a used product versus a new one. "For any reason" was entirely too vague, I'll give you that. Not to mention book titles I never got.
I am incredibly sorry to have wasted your time. Don't worry, I won't be back. Perhaps a Hobby Lobby employee might be more helpful. (Since I never got an answer on stores, either.)


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Guitarzan said:


> Wow... okay.
> 
> Let's see here...
> 
> ...



Wow, bye.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Guitarzan----Is there something that we posted to offend you, as it wasn't the case. We have absolutely no knowledge of what you know about repair/restoration of trains, or what your intentions are. We are basically trying to get a feel for what information you want, and as said in other posts before, a majority of us on the forum are more that glad to answer your questions. 

Do you want recommendations on things to buy, constructing a layout?? Give us a hint. WE are not here to insult you.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

I guess for starters, you have to get a transformer, in order to run the train, and test it, to see if it runs. So, are there any hobby shops, or the like near you? If you do have one near you, you could take the 628 engine there, and have them test run the engine, to find out if it runs, or needs repair. If not, then you will need to buy a transformer, to check it out yourself. Big Ed gave you some suggestions along that line, and gave you the "Thor" website. That website is great to gain information on what to do.

The track may be salvagable, but only you know how dirty/rusty it is. The suggestion of using a "Scotchbrite type pad" is a very good one. Just make sure the top of the rails is clean. You will need what is called a "Lock-on" which snaps onto the track, with 2 clips to connect to the transformer. When you get a transformer, the Common (Ground side) gets connected to the outside rail, and the Power or Hot lead goes to the center rail. From your description, the amount of track that you have will only make a small oval. You will most likely want to get more track, to make a larger oval, or look for a layout that suits your fancy, and build that one. 

Let us know what else you need suggestions on. We are not here to drive people away.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Guitarzan said:


> Wow... okay.
> 
> Let's see here...
> 
> ...




Hopefully you will not leave, there are many people willing to help you here. 

Naturally no one knows your exact budget, or your long term goals, or how much space you have, how much free time, etc. We have no idea if you might build a small layout, or something much larger. We have no idea if you might eventually have a large collection and layout, with a hundred locomotives and a thousand freight cars. We don't know your goals and dreams. We don't know if you prefer the old postwar classics, or desire the latest and greatest electronic control systems (with all the bells and whistles). Perhaps you want to run both vintage and modern on the same layout? Do you want to run multiple trains at the same time? Want to join a club, or operate solo? Will you be spending $500 dollars, or $5,000, or even $50,000 dollars? Do you have any experience fixing Lionel (or other brands) of model trains? 

Based on what you have wrote, and what you currently have, I'll give you a little advice. It's strictly my personal opinions. 

Starting off, I suggest getting a good working postwar Lionel AC transformer, of 90 watts or higher. Based on what I have read online, and in many books and magazines articles, it seems the postwar transformers are usually considered best for operating vintage postwar locomotives from Lionel, American Flyer and Marx. There are some reasons given. One is cost. The postwar transformers are usually cheaper, per wattage, compared to the modern electronic systems. 

Another reason is strictly nostalgia. If you grew up remembering trains you had as a kid, and now as an adult, you wish to recreate those memories. Some people like to stay with the "toys" they loved as a kid. Okay I realize it was a deceased uncle's childhood model train, which you have inherited. But you get the point. 

Some people like the simpler times, when things were simpler to fix. There is no doubt in my eye, the postwar trains can be cheaper to fix, then the modern trains. The modern stuff have quite sophisticated electronic circuit boards, to control everything from the speed and direction, to the various sounds. The vintage trains on the other hand, usually just had a simple motor, a light-bulb, and a mechanical e-unit (reversing unit). Some of the higher end postwar models also included a whistle or horn.

Nowadays everything is electronic. Nothing against it, nothing wrong with it. It's just often more expensive for a beginner to repair. 

Now if you happen to want to purchase some of the modern locomotives and control systems, the two choices are the Lionel TMCC/Legacy system, and the DCS system from MTH. Some people have both. 

I should give some advice I have read here, and in magazines. If you intend to purchase any modern locomotives with the electronic circuit boards (especially TMCC/Legacy or DCS from MTH), then it's highly recommended to use a modern transformer, because the circuit breaker protection trips much quicker (in a derailment for instance), compared to the vintage transformers. You can damage or destroy a circuit board in a single second, with a power surge from a derailment. It does not take much. Which means, the new transformers have fast acting circuit breakers, to protect delicate electronics. The circuit breakers in the vintage postwar transformer are quite leisurely in their speed for comparison. And some postwar transformers (especially Marx), and almost all prewar, do not have any protection at all. DO NOT run modern trains on prewar transformers, or anything that is old and untested. I also don't recommend running modern trains with postwar transformers, at least not for an absolute beginner. Let the experts do it. They know the risks, and have learned how to mitigate the risks. 

It's quite safe to run the vintage postwar trains with the vintage postwar transformers, because they were designed for each other. AS LONG as you don't see any water damage on the metal case, AND the power cord is in good condition. Otherwise, it needs to be inspected by a trained professional, and repaired as necessary. And regarding prewar transformers, I don't recommend using them for anything. I'd just keep that in a display case. 

As for your track, you can keep what you have for the time being, and try to clean it up some. Just clean the tops of the rails, and where the pieces connect to each other (those pins also need to be clean). Don't worry about the bottom of the track, for right now. Just get your train running. You can always get better track in the future, when you want to expand. I'd also get some switches (turnouts) in the near future for your layout. A plain oval can be quite boring, after a few minutes. 

You also need a Lionel "Lock-on" (and some wire, if not included) to connect to your track. It allows the electricity to travel from the transformer to the track, to control the train. 

There are also many fine books and magazines which can help you with the hobby. If you have a good hobby store nearby, especially if they specialize in Lionel trains, I'd try that first, so you can look at the magazines and books in person. 

If you don't have any hobby shops nearby (or nothing decent or helpful), there are still train shows, clubs, and forums like this one. You can also purchase new and used Lionel model trains from ebay, craigslist, and many well stocked hobby shops have an internet presence. Sometimes you can find Lionel trains at garage sales, flea markets, estate sales, and of course train shows. There is also a buy and sell feature at this forum, for members. 

As far as the difference between vintage and modern transformers, the vintage are cheaper, and very plentiful. Lionel made the smaller ones (90 watts and less) by the millions. And If and when you upgrade to a bigger and more powerful transformer (or digital control system), you can always keep the smaller vintage transformers for accessories such as lights. 

If you intend to only run a single locomotive for a while, you can get something around 90 watts (a Lionel 1033 or 1044), or thereabouts. The 75 watt 1032 looks the same, but is less powerful. If you want a little more power, you can get a RW (110 watts), or perhaps a Lionel LW, which is rated at 125 watts, or a SW rated at 130 watts, or a TW which is 175 watts. If you would like to run two trains, either get two single transformers, such as anything I mentioned above. Or get a transformer with dual controls, such as the KW (190 watts), or the top of the line ZW (250 or 275 watts). 


I believe (but I could be wrong) that most of the dual control postwar transformers (Lionel KW, V, Z and ZW, and the bigger American Flyer with dual controls) can output their entire wattage to any single post, or share among all the posts, which I believe is advantageous. This means if you had a 275 watt ZW for instance, it can output whatever each of your various trains and accessories need. A lighted steam engine with smoke unit and whistle, and pulling a lighted passenger train, will need much more wattage compared to a small simple diesel with a single motor (and no horn), pulling a few freight cars, and a lighted caboose. That passenger train might pull 100 or more watts by itself, while the freight train might only pull 60 watts. And of course, some of the bigger postwar diesels have two electric motors inside, with a horn, so they will need more wattage, then a smaller diesel with a single motor inside. 

I believe only the 175 watt Lionel TW is limited, because it has two separate coils inside. It cannot output the entire 175 watts to a single train, only half of that amount.

The other transformers, on the other hand, can deliver their entire wattage output, to any post binding, when needed. If you only operated a single train on a Lionel ZW transformer, it can happily output the entire 275 watts to that single train, or split it's output to whatever your particular trains actually need. It actually has four outputs, they can be split as anything (such as 68.75 watts on A, 68.75 watts on B, 68.75 watts on C, and 68.75 watts on D). It could also output 120 watts on A, 80 watts on B, 40 watts on C, and 35 watts on D, if that is what your layout (trains and accessories) actually draw in wattage. Or any other combination, which equals a maximum of 275 watts.

I will also mention, your trains and accessories will only pull the wattage they actually need to operate, and nothing more. So if you had two Marx trains, each pulling 30-40 watts each (such is typical with Marx), and nothing else that is lighted or powered from that particular transformer (in other words, no lights, etc), then you are only using a maximum of 70-80 watts to operate both trains at the same time. You would still have around 190 watts left over as backup, reserve power, on a Lionel ZW transformer. 

Also back in the postwar era, Lionel (and everyone else?), rated their transformers at the INPUT, instead of the continuous output, like is common nowadays. For instance, even though the Lionel SW is rated at 130 watts, that is input wattage. The SW is actually capable of around 75 watts continuous output. The postwar Lionel 1033 was rated at 90 watts input and 60 watts output continuously. Also need to mention, when a transformer becomes warm (when in use) its output will normally diminish. Because of this fact, not more than about 75 percent of its rated (input) wattage, should he drawn from a postwar transformer continuously, to protect it from getting too hot. 

I believe all modern transformers from Lionel (and Atlas, MRC, MTH, K-Line, etc) are rated for their continuous output. Which is a true measure, of what it can really handle safely, without heating up and dying prematurely. 

Hope you understand my explanation. 

At the "thortrains.net" website, there is more information about this. It's a good read about wattage, and what trains and accessories really need. 
http://www.thortrains.net/manual3.htm

I currently run a postwar Marx steam engine with a 45 watt Lionel transformer, which delivers more then enough wattage for my needs. 

I also need to mention, some of the modern locomotives, freight cars and passenger cars, need quite wide curves, sometimes 0-36, sometimes 0-42, sometimes even 0-72 is required. Pretty much all prewar and postwar trains operate fine on 0-31 curves, and many smaller pieces will operate fine on 0-27 curves. The biggest problem will be the Lionel 0-27 switches (because some long cars will hit the control stand, when taking the curved route). Usually never a problem with 0-31 and larger switches, if you stay with prewar and postwar equipment, and are careful with the modern trains you purchase, to make sure they are compatible with your track switches. 

As far as specific books, here are a few I recommend, based on the reviews at amazon. I don't have all the books, just a few of them. A couple others I have read at my local library.

http://www.amazon.com/Trackwork-Toy-Trains-Peter-Riddle/dp/0890247072/ref=pd_sim_b_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=022EDGAV9NB6AFN3XV82

http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Your-Toy-Train-Layout/dp/0897785436/ref=pd_sim_b_4/183-4272611-8738701?ie=UTF8&refRID=1RKPGTZ7VQTGGS1MC3FP

http://www.amazon.com/Greenbergs-Wiring-Your-Lionel-Layout/dp/0897782062/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1GMWJ4JH4S35J1X83YYM

http://www.amazon.com/Greenbergs-Repair-Operating-Manual-1945-1969/dp/0897784553

http://www.amazon.com/layout-accessory-manual-Lionel-trains/dp/0934580081/ref=pd_sim_b_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TK7ZXFF9374MPXPMFJC

http://www.amazon.com/Command-Control-Trains-Edition-Classic/dp/0890247528/ref=pd_sim_b_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0GVBMKVB6BYTFQXPQKEJ

http://www.amazon.com/The-DCS-O-Gauge-Companion/dp/1460921690/ref=pd_cp_b_2

http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Book-Lionel-Complete/dp/0760340269/ref=pd_sim_b_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1PTR3GA7YDZZJ81SXPHK

http://www.amazon.com/Realistic-Modeling-Toy-Trains-Hi-rail/dp/0890247455/ref=pd_sim_b_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1PTR3GA7YDZZJ81SXPHK

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Train-Track-Classic-Trains/dp/0897785304/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=022EDGAV9NB6AFN3XV82

http://www.amazon.com/Tips-Tricks-Toy-Train-Operators/dp/0897783956/ref=pd_sim_b_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NMS3WFT0K0PQVR1R3R5

http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Lionel-Trains-Miller/dp/087349248X/ref=pd_sim_b_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NMS3WFT0K0PQVR1R3R5

http://www.amazon.com/Realistic-Track-Plans-Gauge-Trains/dp/0897784340/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NMS3WFT0K0PQVR1R3R5


And most important, have fun. 

Howard


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

I wouldn't waste my time with this guy. He showed his true colors after receiving some great advice/info from Big Ed and others.:smilie_daumenneg:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I think he's flown the coop ... despite some very well-intended helpful comments from our gang above.

Strange ... very strange ...

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

He didn't go anywhere, he is just lurking now.

Heck, I didn't list any books or stores as I was trying to see what his intentions were so he could get a transformer.
No sense wasting money on a big transformer if all he was going to do is run a loop around the Christmas tree.
Plus I had other business to attend to so I was just popping in and out of the forum.
I guess he got mad because I made my question larger and added color.:dunno:


And look what Howard posted, hell he wrote a book,:thumbsup:
Teladoc?.....anyone see how he threw out any insults?

He didn't go anywhere he is just lurking, but he should know that he can come back at anytime if he wants. You would think he would log on and thank Howard, unless maybe he also feels that Howard insulted him?
Maybe he will realize that we were trying to help?

Yes go to hobby lobby and ask, they will be of great help.  And empty his wallet at the same time. 

If he wanted to really see some insults, I should have told him to go to "that" other site that sends all the new guys here. They would have really made him feel welcomed, huh?

You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.:smokin:


Hey Bob..........rkenney, for some reason I can't get my PM's to open.
I am not ignoring you, I can't read it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes Bob, it looks like "someone" turned off my PM option?
Everything is normal in my CP, I just can't do anything with pM's!:smilie_daumenneg:


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

I'd like to apologize for something, but I haven't insulted anyone lately (least not today).

Will someone please step up for me to insult.

In the words of Leroy Jethro Gibbs, "Don't apologize, it's a sign of weakness!":smokin:


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

I sometimes tend to be long winded at forums, lol. Same with my emails to friends, I often like to write long messages. It's just the way I am.

Maybe I should write books for a living, lol.

Howard


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Bob, Can I take your quote at the end that you are an NCIS fanatic. It is the one show that I hate to miss.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Yeah, and the funny thing is I don't even like cops and robbers shows. 

Unless maybe they're old black and white films (Thin man, Philip Marlowe, Key Largo . . .):dunno:


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

rkenney said:


> Yeah, and the funny thing is I don't even like cops and robbers shows.
> 
> Unless maybe they're old black and white films (Thin man, Philip Marlowe, Key Largo . . .):dunno:


Don't forget Highway Patrol and Dragnet.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

rkenney said:


> I'd like to apologize for something, but I haven't insulted anyone lately (least not today).
> 
> Will someone please step up for me to insult.
> 
> In the words of Leroy Jethro Gibbs, "Don't apologize, it's a sign of weakness!":smokin:


Don't worry the days is still young , im sure you will insult someone


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