# Dcc



## Rays82vette (Dec 21, 2011)

Ok all, It's been close to 40 years since I have had a model train. Thinks have change drastically. So, Some tell me about DCC. I know what it is but i don't know which is the best and easiest to use. I do know I want to go cordless. So how about some suggestions Thanks


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Welcome Ray, Got any pics of the last of the Mako Shark Vettes?

Who's system is best is a matter of opinion, personally I like Digitrax, I found that they have gone and thought out a little more of their system than other systems have. Also their basic Zephyr system is not obsolete when upgrading. NCE also offers a starter set as well but I dont know if that system remains active as you upgrade. I find that their system is not as thought out as Digitrax.

There are other systems out there and some with radio as well. With your DCC system you get what you pay for. Honestly they are not as good as their price seems.

Massey


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

I have some questions about DCC also, I guess I'll ask here instead of a new thread. First time posting on here. I've done a bunch of reading and comparing of the starter sets and I think I'd like to go with the EZ Command because of it's ease of use and cheap cost. My little daughters are going to be using it so I want it simple. It's my first time getting into DCC so I know I have to get some decoders for the few engines I have. If I wanted to spend more money the digitrax seems to be the most popular option.

One question I have is...because the EZ Command is very low power, a DCC booster will be a good decision in the near future. The Bachmann ez booster is expensive, but it was designed to work with that system. So I read you can use others as long as they conform to the standards? I found some PCE on eBay but it looks like they have proprietary connections on them? Is there a specific one I should look for?


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

EZ command is a waste of money. There is no additional boosters for more power and the system does not handle 4 digit addressing or sound engines. Dynamis is much better but still very limited. My best advise to you is put down a couple extra pennies and get a Digitrax Zephyr or Zephyr Extra for the most flexability or the NCE Power Cab starter set.

Digitrax systems seem a little more thought out than the NCE systems do but the NCE are much more DIY friendly.

Massey


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm with Massey on this one. I have a power cab and am very happy with it. EZ command will leave you without too many things that make DCC worthwhile. 
-Art


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

So with the Zephyr can the kids just press a number for the engine and control the throttle easily?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

There have been a lot of people on here saying the zephyr is very easy with kids! My son learned to use my BIG Digitrax system in a day and had no problems!


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

THe part that makes the Zephyr easy with the kids is the large knob for the throttle and the simple forward/brake/reverse knob. The system addresses and aquires locos the same way as the other digitrax systems do. it is more than pushing one button but if they can read numbers and use a key pad they can operate a Zephyr or other Digitrax DCC system.

Massey


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## Papa-n-Catfish (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm back into model railroading after 20 years because my grandson (The Catfish) is smitten. I sold all my stuff when I got out of the hobby in the mid 80s, so we are starting over from scratch. We will be starting with a small 4x7' HO scale layout utilizing steam power. 
Are Bachman steamers any good these days or are they still sort of cheap john?
I also know almost nothing about DCC.
If one has a DC controller like the MRC my grandson has, is it necessary to buy a new controller or can the DC be converted?

Thanks,

Michael


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Papa-n-Catfish said:


> I'm back into model railroading after 20 years because my grandson (The Catfish) is smitten. I sold all my stuff when I got out of the hobby in the mid 80s, so we are starting over from scratch. We will be starting with a small 4x7' HO scale layout utilizing steam power.
> Are Bachman steamers any good these days or are they still sort of cheap john?
> I also know almost nothing about DCC.
> If one has a DC controller like the MRC my grandson has, is it necessary to buy a new controller or can the DC be converted?
> ...


I have a few Bachmann engines. They are good runners these days and most of the newer models have DCC onboard so no conversion needed. The spectrum line is the best bachmann has and they are quite nice especially for the price. 

You can't convert your DC transformer to run DCC you will have to buy a starter DCC system. If you choose digitrax you can use your DC controller as an extra throttle on your digitrax system. I chose NCE power cab for my starter set. It cost $149 at model train stuff.
-Art


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Welcome to the best Model Train forum on the net!!

Bachmann stuff is OK in the standard line but the Spectrum line is top quality and good. I own 5 steam engines and 3 of them are Bachmann Spectrums. 

DCC and DC are totally different critters. The controller you have will not be able to carry over to the DCC system. It can still be used to power lights and other accessories you may have that need DC power. 

With a DCC system you get what you pay for. That does not mean you need to buy the most expensive system, it simply means cheap is just that... cheap. You can get into a Bachmann EZDCC system for less than a Franklin but you will not be very happy. That system does not do 4 digit addressing and you can only run at best 2 non sound engines at a time. The system is not expandable either.
Digitrax is my personal preferance and IMHO they thought out their sets a little more than the other guys. Their basic set the Zephyr is very powerful for a starter set and the Zypher Extra tops the origional set once again with more power and more features for only a few $$ more. The Zephyr also does not become obsolete if you decide later to upgrade. NCE is another good place to start, the Power Cab is their basic system and the PC unit can also become simply a thottle as well if you upgrade to the other NCE systems. NCE is more friendly to the DIY electronics than the Digitrax system, but it is not as well thought out IMO.

Massey


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

to add, 
running a single train on smaller layout can still be perfectly done and in comfort with todays excellent controllers (having features like low speed pulsing, momentum, et ). and this while saving bunch of $. consider if DCC is really needed. 

with that i'm all about DCC, it is a fun topic all by itself


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## Rays82vette (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi again. Thanks for the reply's. One more quick question. I see that most of you are talking about the Digitrax or NCE systems. My local train shop is trying to get me to buy the MRC Prodigy express. Any thoughts or opinions for this unit?


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

I almost bought the Prodigy Express myself. After much research online I decided on paying the extra $30 and get the NCE power cab. The Prodigy is about $120 and the NCE is $149 at model train stuff. The prodigy has the option for computer interface but NOT JMRI. If you ever want to use JMRI you are out of luck and since JRMI is the standard it was worth spending the extra money.....at least it was for me. The Digitrax system will also interface with JMRI if needed. If you buy either system at your LHS you will spend about $50 extra for either system. Best of luck in your decision, you will not be disapointed with DCC 
-Art


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## Rays82vette (Dec 21, 2011)

Thanks. I am finding out that buying things on line seems to be the way to go. LHS wants 209.00 for the express. Ok, as I said, I haven't been around this stuff for a while.. Cn you tell me what JMRI is? Thanks


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Java Model Railroad Interface. Look here. Multi platform support it's a free download an is considered to be the de-facto standard for model train computer interface. You may not be interested now but as you get more involved in DCC you may want to use your PC to run your trains. I use it with my power cab and can run my trains with my MAC. I also have an android tablet that I can use through JMRI that lets me run my trains through my home WiFi wirelessly.
-Art


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

JMRI is software to run trains for those who like technology and computers. prodigy express is ok system , but missing stuff like CV readback. not a big deal during normal use but can be useful troubleshooting stuff. nce and digitrax are one step above in that regard.

209? sims like a ripp off. NCE and DX can be found for 160-180, express should be around 120-140. check modeltrainstuff.com they had very good price on those


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## CasperFLSTC (Nov 7, 2011)

Massey said:


> EZ command is a waste of money.


I echo that with a caveat. Look at the train set if you are looking for an "inexpensive" means of getting set up with DCC. But do plan on upgrading from EZ Command as soon as feasible. Sooner the better.

I purchased a Bachman DCC starter set with EZ command in it. Actually ran trains for a little bit. Realized after reading some more (I tend to walk backwards into stuff) that there was a much broader world of DCC and purchased the NCE Power Cab starter set (good deal for $). I have used it briefly as I am getting my layout worked and it is HEAD AND SHOULDERS over what EZ command is capable of.



Massey said:


> There is no additional boosters for more power and the system does not handle 4 digit addressing or sound engines.


One of the reasons that I determined I needed another type of system is the cost of upgrading the EZ command and its limitations. You can add a second controller for more $$$ and a booster to run more than two trains is more $$$$. Most of which is true for the ohter systems. But then you start looking at what is CAN NOT do and the cost is way too much to me.

So, if you want the ease of getting DCC ready locos and some rolling stock and are tight budgeted, the EZ command set may not be a bad way to go. But I recommend you look at separate prices first to see if its worth the cost of buying something knowing you'll just want to ditch it.


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

Artieiii said:


> I almost bought the Prodigy Express myself. After much research online I decided on paying the extra $30 and get the NCE power cab. The Prodigy is about $120 and the NCE is $149 at model train stuff. The prodigy has the option for computer interface but NOT JMRI. If you ever want to use JMRI you are out of luck and since JRMI is the standard it was worth spending the extra money.....at least it was for me. The Digitrax system will also interface with JMRI if needed. If you buy either system at your LHS you will spend about $50 extra for either system. Best of luck in your decision, you will not be disapointed with DCC
> -Art


Alright so you've got me talked into a Digitrax (extra)system. Can that be plugged into a computer? I'd love to do that!

Does that Java based software just interface with the hardware (digitrax)?
Also- what are CV's and why do I need to change them?

I've learned a million things just from this site already, thanks for all the help.


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

ravex1049 said:


> Alright so you've got me talked into a Digitrax (extra)system. Can that be plugged into a computer? I'd love to do that!
> 
> Does that Java based software just interface with the hardware (digitrax)?
> Also- what are CV's and why do I need to change them?
> ...


Yes the digitrax system needs a USB interface to connect to the layout. One of these will do the job:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Digitrax-PR3-Decoder-Programmer-with-USB-20-Cable-p/dig-pr3.htm
The PR3 will also allow you to program digitrax sound decoders with custom sounds (if you so desire).
-Art

CV stands for "configuration variable" think of CV's like fine tuning of various DCC bits. For example CV's control volume on a sound equiped loco or may be able to change to a different horn sound. These are just examples different decoder have different CV choices. In the begining don't worry too much about it. As you get more into DCC you will start to make changes. BTW if you use JMRI it can make CV changes via your computer.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

ravex1049 said:


> Alright so you've got me talked into a Digitrax (extra)system. Can that be plugged into a computer? I'd love to do that!
> 
> Does that Java based software just interface with the hardware (digitrax)?
> Also- what are CV's and why do I need to change them?
> ...


OK The Zephyr Extra is a great starting point you will be happy here. You will need a Digitrax PR3 or a Locobuffer From http://www.rr-cirkits.com/ . These divices will allow your command station to interface with a computer. Computer interface is most valuable in my opinion for programing decoders. CVs are Configuration Variables, these are decoder settings that change the way your locomotive behaves. You can change things like start voltage to the motor, flashing ditch lights (if your loco is equipped) sound features (if equipped). These are done on the command station in hex or decimal numbers but with JMRI the settings are much more user friendly like radio buttons of check boxes. THe Speed tables are also in slider graph form which allows you to "see" the settings instead of guessing numbers. There are also preset tables to assist you as well as you can create your own table. This makes programing the decoder quick and simple.

On a side note, in order to use JMRI and computer control to its fullest you should have a command station that is full featured. The Zephyr's Command station is just that. The DCS50, DCS51, DSC100 and DCS200 are all Digitrax full featured Command stations. The DB150 is a limited command station and will not allow CV readback.

CV Readback is the command station's ability to ask the decoder what its settings are and display them back to the user. NCE power cab cannot do this, the Digitrax Zephyr and Zephyr Extra can, which gives it a BIG leg up in my book.

Massey


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

Answered my own question there, I need a Digitrax PR3 to connect to a computer, even a mac- I am shocked there.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

ravex1049 said:


> Answered my own question there, I need a Digitrax PR3 to connect to a computer, even a mac- I am shocked there.


The Locobuffer will also interface with a MAC, and since JMRI is built in JAVA it runs on the MAC just fine too.

Massey


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

Am I the only one at work right now? I don't think I've been on a forum this fast.

I dug out some of engines last night, and most are not in good shape. Several have rust on them, several are also very cheapo models. I've probably got 2 or 3 good diesels and 1 steamer. If I buy the basic digitrax decoders for now, can I 'upgrade' a sound/speaker or will I need a full featured decoder to replace the basic?


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Massey said:


> CV Readback is the command station's ability to ask the decoder what its settings are and display them back to the user. NCE power cab cannot do this, the Digitrax Zephyr and Zephyr Extra can, which gives it a BIG leg up in my book.
> 
> Massey


Massey NCE power cab can indeed read back the CV values from the decoder.
-Art


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

A non sound decoder can be used with a sound only decoder but it is just best to get a sound and motor decoder it will cost less in the long run. I dont recomend using older engines for sound applications. The motors used and the pickup systems are not nearly as good as what is out there today. Those older systems will draw more amps, thus limiting the amount of power you have for anything else.

Massey

P.S. I am at work, there is just no one that needs help right now so I am free to type.



Artieiii said:


> Massey NCE power cab can indeed read back the CV values from the decoder.
> -Art


I was on another forum the other day and was reading about the DCC starter set pros and cons and several people said that the NCE procab (the basic starter set) could not read back CVs but the next model up could for only a few $$ more. Did I get the names wrong?

Massey


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

Massey said:


> A non sound decoder can be used with a sound only decoder but it is just best to get a sound and motor decoder it will cost less in the long run. I dont recomend using older engines for sound applications. The motors used and the pickup systems are not nearly as good as what is out there today. Those older systems will draw more amps, thus limiting the amount of power you have for anything else.
> 
> Massey
> 
> P.S. I am at work, there is just no one that needs help right now so I am free to type.


Are you in IT?

I also found that a lot of my track is going to be bad as well. But how to turnouts work with DCC? Can I use an ordinary one without causing a short?
I was going to use a normal DC controller for power/switching functions.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Yup!! I studied IT/Network Security and right now I am doing a little of that but mainly Help Desk for an Army Hospital.

Massey


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

Massey said:


> I was on another forum the other day and was reading about the DCC starter set pros and cons and several people said that the NCE procab (the basic starter set) could not read back CVs but the next model up could for only a few $$ more. Did I get the names wrong?
> 
> Massey


Well you do have the names backwards....Power cab is the starter system. Pro cab is the step up from there. But I have the Power Cab and in "program on the main mode" it reads the current cv value.
-Art


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

But how to turnouts work with DCC? Can I use an ordinary one without causing a short?


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

you prefferably need dcc "friendly" turnouts. un-friendly ones still can be used but will require better planning of wiring.

everything you need to know about turnout wiring for DCC:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm



Massey said:


> I was on another forum the other day and was reading about the DCC starter set pros and cons and several people said that the NCE procab (the basic starter set) could not read back CVs but the next model up could for only a few $$ more. Did I get the names wrong?
> 
> Massey


 yes you did. NCE powercab does have readback as well. and pro-cab is not really a system , it is just the cab included with the power-pro and power-house system.

power-cab
Pro-cab
command station (without cab)


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

Turnouts are not an issue. For simplicity sake get insulated frog turnouts. The only time you are going to have to worry about turnouts causing a short is if you make a reverse loop or a wye. Then you will need something like a PM42 or AR1 to provide phase reversing. Aside from that just make sure that rail "A" and rail "B" are always on the same rail even after insulated areas.

Massey


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## ravex1049 (Dec 19, 2011)

I looked up the PM42 for auto-reversing. Why is it just a circuit board, is there a case (plastic or metal) that these modules plug into? The PS3 for computer USB hookup also looks unfinished with the circuit board sticking out.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

The PM42 is open circuitry. I have never seen a case for them since most of the time they are hidden under the layout some where. PM42s are good things I will not build a layout with out one if I plan on running more than one train at at time.

The PR3 is in a little white box similar to what Digitrax uses for the stationary decoders.

Massey


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

ravex1049 said:


> Why is it just a circuit board, is there a case (plastic or metal) that these modules plug into? The PS3 for computer USB hookup also looks unfinished with the circuit board sticking out.


brushed aluminum enclosure is not needed for operation of these items. besides, these things are usually hidden from view anyways.


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## jaydv (Dec 10, 2011)

Just trying to make sure I've got this right...If I buy a DCC controller, will my train work? OR...do I need to do something to the engine first???


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

To operate in DCC you need.
A DCC compatible track set up. No non DCC friendly switches and automatic reverse controllers for any reverse loops. (This is overly simplified)
A DCC decoder equipped engine
(((A DCC command center, A DCC controller, A DCC power supply)))

(((Some DCC systems have these integrated together all in one enclosure and others do not, you have to buy each piece separately! It all depends on the system.)))
All DCC systems require a voltage supply and most (If not all) will not work running off the output of your DC controller!


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## jaydv (Dec 10, 2011)

SO.....unless I buy a "DCC" engine, I can't use a DCC controller? Sorry for the dumb question but...I'm new to this "DCC" stuff!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yep you got it!


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## ToothlessTinker (Jan 10, 2012)

How much would it cost to buy a decoder, command center, and a single engine? Just in a rough estimate to get me in the door but could expand later.
Also I have heard its cheaper to just buy a Dcc equipped train set. But those have limited use such as Backmann's. So what sets come with the best Dcc?

Also earlier I read about a Dcc friendly track. What exactly is that supposed to mean? 
Sorry for the silly questions, I am just getting back into the model train hobby after having left it 10 years ago.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I've heard of very few sets that are worth more then the plastic they are made out of for a good controller and engine setup.
While some look at the Bachmann set as good I look at them a little different,:thumbsdown:, why put money into something that is so low grade that it just barely works and is just plain cheap!
The better your DCC Controller is the better your engines will run and the less troublesome your layout will be!
A very good starter DCC setup like a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra or NCE Power cab range from $150 to $250.
For you first DCC engine buy a decoder equipped model, do not go the do it yourself route. Buy ones like an Atlas, Athearn or Kato and there are a few others it just matters on what scale your running.
All track is DCC friendly, just stay with quality Nickel Silver track and not the steel or high maintenance brass track. It's the switches (turnouts) that are or are not DCC friendly, Newer switches (turnouts) are almost all DCC friendly and most if not all will state that they are. Almost all of atlas and even real old atlas are DCC friendly. Older Shinohara switches (turnouts) are not but the newer ones and the Walthers/Shinohara switches (turnouts) are. When In doubt ask before buying.


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## Massey (Apr 16, 2011)

What you need to buy is going to depend on what you are planning for a railroad. For example:

Your Road: table top layout between 4x8 and 5x9, no expanding any time soon and this is going to be your layout for years to come. 1 or 2 users at a time. Computer control optional but not required.

My recomendations: Digitrax Zephyr Extra set or NCE Power Cab

Your Road: Room sized around the walls layout that will grow as your skills grow. Possible expansions into other rooms and you want 3+ users with multiple engines running, Computer control is a must as is remote turnout control, signaling and transponding too.

My recomendations: Digitrax Super Chief Extra, or NCE Pro Cab system with the computer interface that goes with each system and a dedicated PC to run the computer side of the layout. 

So all and all it is going to depend on your needs rather than just here is a set that will fit everyone's needs. If you choose the Zephyr or Power Cab they do not become obsolete as your system grows, they simply change functions and they are both upgradable and expandable. My personal preferance is the Digitrax Systems.

Massey


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