# Seeking advice on some aspects of getting started



## NCRailRookie (Feb 23, 2021)

Ive been lurking here and reading and gathering info....I had a 4X8 simple American Flyer setup that was brought out during the Holidays in the mid60's to early 70's ....now after about 50 years id like to recapture those memories.

I'm deciding between HO and N. DC and DCC. The space I will have is a small spare bedroom 11.5ft X 12ft-two walls unusable(doors and closets). I thinking a "table" layout. I have very limited construction skills-so think a HCD or 2 on 3 or 4 sawhorses is the direction I'm leaning. I am a one man operation so easy of lifting and building are primary considerations. Are my assumptions correct? Any other advice?

My goal is a train layout to learn basic skills and not so much a model railroad. I want to follow the KISS edict to start as well.

Given that...one on my first steps is deciding on scale and size of layout. I think I'd be happier with HO but understand the advantage N brings....Id like some feedback regarding using 2 doors as mentioned above...so roughly a 5ftX7ft HO layout....many go 4X8 plywood but some say too narrow.....Would 7ft length be limiting?

Regarding DC vs DCC for this size and simple plan (oval with 2 to 4 turnouts for yard/industries). Will the wiring be relatively simple for either? Since Im just starting...should I just keep it simple and inexpensive an just go DC an 1 loco for now and just take time to brush up on modeling, wiring, and operating skills?

Any advice/feedback welcome. Thanks in Advance!


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

If you're building this to just get your feet on the ground of model railroading, I would think the obvious route would be a 4X8 sheet of plywood. Focus on the tech side of model railroading which would be DCC. That's the state of the hobby now unless you are only getting into it for the kiddies to play with, then stick with DC. You won't be upset when the railroad is trashed.
You might need something a bit more than saw horses with the plywood. A frame under the plywood to keep it flat and the ability to run wire to any section of the track as needed. Saw horses cut off that access.
Basically, you're building an oval test track. Don't fret over the difference of moving a section of track 1/2" this way or that way. Every possible layout design on a 4X8 sheet of plywood has been invented and it all boils down to a loop with sidings and possibly an elevated crossover with a ridiculous incline that is more like an amusement park roller coaster. You're not going to be happy tryin to run passenger trains or autoracks on 22" radius curves. Stick with the shorter railcars and you'll be happy.
Put your focus on the DCC part of this and later on in life, when you have the authority to claim the entire basement, you will know what ya need to do.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

My advice is to keep reading, considering options, and then starting to play with track configurations. I didn't know any better, and didn't ask, and due to a previous gift from my wife, opted to purchase a lot more EZ-Track, the sectional track. I did have fun, but I soon abandoned all that money, and this was before eBay. So, before you get to plunking down your plastic, have a really solid idea of what you DON'T want to do. Meaning, a lot of reading, asking, and rejigging some concepts. 

Sure, start with a 4X8 as suggested above, but that space tends to shoehorn HO trackage into a couple of well-worn geometries. Like an oval.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm a big fan of modular construction for the benchwork of
your new layout. You make 2 or 3 'frames' of 1 X 3 lumber
screwed together. Legs are 1 X 3s screwed together to make
an 'L'. These are bolted in the corners of the frames. These
frames can then be bolted together in various combinations until
you get one you like. They are light and easy to handle.
Use 1/4" plywood for the top. Since you are likely to go
with HO, make the plywood top 5 ft. wide. This will make possible
22 or 26" radius curves which are necessary if you get
a steamer or one of the modern 6 wheel truck diesels.

You won't regret selecting the DCC control system. It is
the easiest to wire and easiest to operate. With only 2 wires
to the track, you can run 2, 3 or more locos at the same time
with only the one controller. No complex wiring, no isolated sections no
panel of switches. If you can use a TV remote you can
use a DCC controller. You push buttons to run a loco just
as you push buttons to Tune the TV.

Plan on using flex track right from the start. Don't get involved
with the 'track on roadbed' sectional track...it limits you to the
turnouts and track sections the seller makes...they are not
compatible with standard track, turnouts and accessories
and are often more expensive.

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

NCRailRookie said:


> Ive been lurking here and reading and gathering info....I had a 4X8 simple American Flyer setup that was brought out during the Holidays in the mid60's to early 70's ....now after about 50 years id like to recapture those memories.
> 
> I'm deciding between HO and N. DC and DCC. The space I will have is a small spare bedroom 11.5ft X 12ft-two walls unusable(doors and closets). I thinking a "table" layout. I have very limited construction skills-so think a HCD or 2 on 3 or 4 sawhorses is the direction I'm leaning. I am a one man operation so easy of lifting and building are primary considerations. Are my assumptions correct? Any other advice?
> 
> ...


NCRailRookie:

To accomplish your simple goal, and stay within your limited construction limitations, I think you have the right idea in using hollow core doors. My present layout (#7) is a lot more elaborate, but I have built two N-scale layouts on hollow core doors, and they worked just fine. I agree with you K.I.S.S. principle approach. From your post, I gather that the last thing you want now, is anything the least bit complicated. You have many choices and some of those are presented in the attached files, which I wrote specifically for Newbies like yourself. Much of what's in them may be of more help further along in your model railroading experience, but some of the basic choices will apply now. I am going to make a few recommendations, but that's all they are, suggestions, not commandments. There is no one "Right" or "Wrong" way to build a model railroad. Everything is for you to decide. My recommendations are intended to make things a simple as possible, for you as you start out. You can always get more sophisticated later, but for now let's keep it simple. 

1) "benchwork" (The supporting structure for the layout.)

Two 36" wide 80" high (normal standard) hollow core doors. I do have a caution about saw horses. Make sure you can place them far enough back from the ends, and the sides, of your layout, that you won't bump into them or hook a foot on a sawhorse leg and bring the train, or the whole layout, down onto the floor. With a 36" width, that would mean some pretty small sawhorses.
It might be better to attach your layout to the walls with brackets, or build a simple frame and legs to support it. Look at the section 3 & 4 of the "How to build a better first layout" series of files. It has a diagram of the kind of wall attachment I'm suggesting.

2) Scale N-scale.

Simply because HO-scale trains can't turn around on a 36" wide table. In fact, they barely make it onto a 4'x 8' sheet of plywood. HO 18" radius curves will fit fine, but the larger 22" radius that some longer cars and locomotives need will run nearly edge-to-edge, unless you can widen part of the table.
A 4' x 8' table will fill a pretty good chunk of the space in a 12' X 11.5' room. It's doable, but a bit crowded and unless you put it in the middle of the room, and can reach both long sides, you won't be able to reach across it to clean track or rescue derailed trains. In short, the only reason I would suggest you use a 4 x 8 is if you definitely want HO-scale, and continuous running. Using N-scale allows continuous running in a narrower space.

3) Track type.

Kato Unitrack. This is the far better choice of the two common brands of "roadbed track" available. Roadbed track has a gray plastic roadbed piece attached to the bottom of each track section. The sections lock firmly together and the roadbed means you can avoid one of the most tedious and least fun tasks in this hobby, ballasting track. You also won't need to cut track, file the ends of rails to fit rail joiners on them, solder rail joiners, or any of the other tasks involved in trackwork. Kato's track, including their "turnouts" (track switches) are well designed, well made, and simply snap together. Even the electrical hook ups are simple plugs into the bottom of the track.
The other common roadbed track brand is Bachmann EZ-Track. It's actual track is OK, but the turnouts have a very bad reputation, and are a possible trouble causing item that I suggest you avoid. Kato products are excellent quality, and well designed. However, like many excellent quality and well designed products, they are not cheap. I think the cost may well be justified by the simplicity and convenience. I don't happen to use Kato Unitrack (though I do use their locomotives and passenger trains) but many forum members are happy Kato Unitrack users, and can answer any questions you have about it.

4) Control system.

Traditional DC, rather than DCC. While DCC is very nice, DC still works, is less expensive, and on a small, simple, layout like you have in mind, it's all you need. You could use DCC of course, and that would let you have sound from your locomotives. But the other big advantage of DCC is a lot less wiring, IF you are building a complex, track heavy, layout and running multiple trains. If you're only going to run one train, or even two, (with one going around one loop of track and the other on a different track,) then the amount of wiring involved for DC operation is minimal. Basically two wires from the power pack(s) to the track(s).

5) Locomotives.

Kato. They are excellent.

6) Cars.

Kato or Micro-Trains. Both are top of the line.

7) couplers.

Kato OR Micro-Trains, BUT NOT BOTH. Each of these brands of coupler is very good., but they don't stay coupled to each other very well. Pick one coupler, and use the same brand on everything.

Looking at this list, I see it's not how I would build a railroad, but I think it's how you should seriously consider building your railroad. I'm not a newbie. I've been a model railroader for well over forty years, and as I said, I'm building my seventh model railroad, not my first. There are downsides to every choice. For instance, you won't learn much about trackwork, or ballasting by using Kato Unitrack, but you also won't have to deal with any of the challenges inherent in some other track types. I tried to compose this list based on your request to keep things simple.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

I am also a beginner to model railroading, but some of the points you make can be important. I like the table idea (the layout my son and I are constructing is a 4x8 table) but it is not the only way to go. You mentioned that you are alone for any lifting, so you need something light but strong. In another thread, a few of use were discussing (laughing at) how over built we designed our tables. Your limit would suggest to me that you really need to watch the weight of it and build light. The 1x3 L shaped girders for a frame should be more than you ever need in strength and stay relatively light. You can even build the frame in such a way as to hold the top when you lay it on the frame but not screw the top down so you can separate it into pieces for moving it.

I like HO (and that is what my father collected when I was a kid so I was kind of leaning towards it), but the size advantage of the N gauge swayed me enough to choose that. I started with two ovals with a siding on each one. I knew I was going to expand it though and knew I was going to go DCC later. I have come to think that it was a mistake to go DC with the plan on changing it. If I were doing it again, I would go DCC from the start. It is a slightly higher cost, but not as expensive as starting with DC and then switching. Obviously, if you start with one loco and one oval, you will not need DCC because DC is how all the starter sets come and they work. But if you expand later at all, you will see the advantages of DCC. 

I also chose to stay with Kato Unitrack for my design. I like it and found it is generally as good as the people who recommended it told me it was. The only flaw with it, and this is true of competing brands as well, is that it kind of locks you in to staying with unitrack for anything on this layout. One difference with Kato track is that you can buy several different beginner sets of track from them without any power supply or train. This lets you have a little more flexibility in choosing DC or DCC without having to pay for something first that you won't use. It also lets you decide on what train you want instead of the beginner sets the company sells. Also, by buying a track set lets you save money over buying a bunch of individual pieces.

The last thing to check on if you have a good hobby shop near you. I use a lot of the resources on the computer, such as this forum, but I got lucky and my local hobby shop is fantastic. I probably spent thre or more hours there asking questions and talking before I made my first purchase. I know it costs me a little more to buy from them than Amazon or the like, but I got more than my money's worth out of the deal from their expertise and advice.


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## Stejones82 (Dec 22, 2020)

I am a novice. Just got the bug late 2020 and still with it. [I think several of the vets here have a side pool going to see when I drop away, like so many others! I hear late March is a strong bet. Which would fit, for Lent is a busy time for a Lutheran pastor-guy!] 

Anyway. I have been reading like a mad thing, but wanted to get some trains running, too. Against good and strong advice, I built my benchwork first. That is because I am space constrained. Yes. CT. I am already having some regrets, and will no doubt have more in the future, but it is what it is. 

I chose HO and a "4x8 plus" table. Overall dims are 9-1/2' x 4' with an ell of 30" x 50" 

I was fortunate to find a rare surviving Local Hobby Shop (LHS) 25 minutes from me, and proprietor has been most helpful. And I am gladly contributing greatly to his grandkid's college funds! 

I asked the question here and with others: "Best to build a starter layout to get skills and experience, or shoot for the full-up final dream layout?" Lots of feedback, but I went with: "Go for it!" Reasons:

a. I am 60, and who knows how many years of good physical condition and mobility I have left. By the time I finish my 'first' layout, I may be in no shape to start another. 
b. I thank the good Lord (and my hard working wife-unit) that money is not a huge issue, but still, even a 'first' layout will demand a good chunk of cash for stuff that may not be usable in the subsequent. 
c. I do have some skills, and this forum is a great place to learn and ask questions. Sure, some of us could possibly qualify as 'curmudgeons,' but with a bit of patience, respect, and thick skin, no need to worry about asking. 
d. Others as well. 

So what am I doing? Well, I bought enough Atlas True-Track to make an oval with one doubled side (two turnouts). Now I can run trains while planning and prepping for the layout. I also started with a decent starter DC power pack (MRC 1370), but very quickly realized that if DCC was at all a possibility, then best to bite proverbial bullet and get in there! So bought a Digitrax Zephyr starter system and like it very much. Even on my simple oval, I can run two or three locomotives with cars, which is just plain FUN!! (Remember TF's advice?) I am now toying with the idea of getting Atlas/other switch machines and decoders to 'play' with the option of DCC controlled turnouts. All while still planning the real layout. 

Trust me on this: If you have not been in the hobby for the past 20 years, there is a lot to learn and assimilate. Websites galore, magazines (both hard-copy and electronic), suppliers, tech-whiz-bangs, layouts, control systems and on and on. [I have considered checking into Rehab, for I go to sleep reading/thinking about train-stuff, wake up in the middle of the night thinking/reading about train-stuff, get up in the morning and spend too much time in the day, yep, you guessed it!] 

So in summary, because I could go on,: 

1. Welcome! 
2. Ask and learn! 
3. Follow your instincts and dreams. 
4. Get something running. 
5. Have Fun! 

Steve


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## NCRailRookie (Feb 23, 2021)

Thanks for the replies! Traction Fan I've read most of your attachment info...it has helped greatly.

My hang up is....I have little desire/ability/tools to construct from scratch supporting bench work...thus the HCD/sawhorse idea....I see for safety sake a way to prevent shifting of door would be necessary....The home big box stores sell a 2 pack of plastic 22in wide sawhorses which should be enough and narrow enough to be out of the way. I also read about the option of plastic top folding banquet tables (3ftX8ft)....is that a viable alternative?

Had already decided on Unitrack....so one box checked for sure

So the big decision is a simple 4X8 HO layout only vs a 36inX80in N layout to start with room to add on in the future???

I think my plan is DC at first and 1 Loco...then add Kato "blue" turnout controls..do some scenery/structures...see how thing go....add DCC and keep Kato turnout controls......get a 2nd loco.......then who knows!

Traction Fan could you please expand on couplers? How to uncouple during switching etc? So if I buy Kato loco...buy only Kato rolling stock?

Appreciate all the help!


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

As for couplers. Go with the plastics couplers if you only intend to run trains of 5 maybe 6 cars. Beyond that, you'll need the metal ones by Kadee (period). We have all been around the block several times about the couplers and Kadee is the top coupler for reliable coupling. Leave the other brands to the kiddies in the sand box.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

D&J Railroad said:


> As for couplers. Go with the plastics couplers if you only intend to run trains of 5 maybe 6 cars. Beyond that, you'll need the metal ones by Kadee (period). We have all been around the block several times about the couplers and Kadee is the top coupler for reliable coupling. Leave the other brands to the kiddies in the sand box.


Ken;

Good advice, as usual. However, one small problem if the OP choses to model in N-scale. Since he has apparently decided on 36" wide doors for a layout base, HO-scale seems unlikely, indeed impossible, unless he wants a point-to-point, or switching, type layout.

The problem is: there are no metal couplers in N-scale. 

Micro-Trains (the N-scale equivalent of Kadee) makes their excellent couplers from Delrin plastic, not metal, like the Kadee HO-scale version. I don't know of any Protomax, or other brand, of metal N-scale couplers either. The Micro-Trains couplers, plastic though they are, routinely held 50+ cars together on my old club's layout. So it's more a matter of the quality of the couplers than the material they're made of. Sure, I would love to see Kadee's metal couplers, and especially their all-metal trucks, made available in N-scale, but as of yet, they're not.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

*My vote goes to HO.*
More choices, easier to work on. DCC is easier (again more room and easier to work on). N is "just too small" for me, but I'm older and my eyesight isn't what it used to be.

*My vote goes to dcc.*
I'd suggest you investigate the Digikeijs DR5000.
Lots of connections, works with MANY types of control interfaces, such as handheld/pusbutton controllers (such as the Roco Minimaus), or, use it via wifi with your cell phone or tablet.
Compared to other setups, the DR5000 is priced right as well -- $200 or so.

*I prefer a graphical control interface to pushbuttons*, but I'm in a minority in this forum in that regard.
If you have a smartphone or tablet (can be either iOS or Android), go to either the App Store or google play and search for "roco z21".
The app you want has a red engine on a blue background.
Download it and try it in "demo mode".
It's absolutely free, and will work fine with the DR5000 mentioned above.

The z21 app will give you a good idea of what's involved with dcc running, setup, and programming, all in demo mode.
And did I mention that it's free to use forever?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

NCRailRookie said:


> Thanks for the replies! Traction Fan I've read most of your attachment info...it has helped greatly.
> 
> My hang up is....I have little desire/ability/tools to construct from scratch supporting bench work...thus the HCD/sawhorse idea....I see for safety sake a way to prevent shifting of door would be necessary....The home big box stores sell a 2 pack of plastic 22in wide sawhorses which should be enough and narrow enough to be out of the way. I also read about the option of plastic top folding banquet tables (3ftX8ft)....is that a viable alternative?
> 
> ...


NCRailRookie;

You said you have read most of my files. That's good, but did you read the one titled, "A lot about couplers" yet? I thought I already had expanded, quite a bit,  on couplers, and "how to uncouple when switching"  in that file, as well as many other aspects of coupler types, mounting, and operation.

Oh well, there are two common methods of uncoupling knuckle couplers. One is by magnetic, "delayed uncoupling." This is a system invented by Kadee, the HO-scale equivalent of Micro-Trains. The idea is to slowly back a pair of linked couplers over some form of magnetic "ramp" and let them be uncoupled by the magnet. (There are three different types of magnetic/electromagnetic ramps available) Then slowly and very steadily, push the cars and the couplers will be held in a position where they will not re-couple while over the magnet, or after leaving the magnet behind. (This latter bit takes some practice, clean track & wheels, a good locomotive capable of slow, and critically, very steady speed, and also some luck.) The car can then be pushed onto a siding and left in the desired position, like in front of the freight door of a warehouse. The rest of the train can then pull away, leaving the car behind. With careful adjustment of the coupler's "trip pins" and practice, this system can work quite well, but it requires both accurate trip pin adjustment, and human practice, to pull it off.

The other method is much simpler, if far less realistic-looking. Sometimes called the H.O.G. ("Hand Of God") method, it works with a hand-held skewer, stick, or small screwdriver, that is inserted between the couplers, and then twisted, to open them. This can be done anywhere on the layout that the operator can physically reach, and see down between the cars. It doesn't work inside tunnels, or under bridges, but you wouldn't want to uncouple there anyway.

As for brands of couplers, cars, and locomotives, yes, "going all Kato"  is one option, though I think Micro Trains makes a better coupler, and a much wider selection of American-style freight cars.
If you plan on using Kato's beautiful passenger trains, they come with Kato couplers, so that might be a factor. On the other hand, if your main interest is freight trains, then you might consider buying Micro-Trains cars, both freight, and/or older "heavyweight" passenger cars. They come with Micro-Trains couplers factory-installed.
Your Kato locomotive would then need to have its couplers changed from Kato couplers to Micro-Trains couplers. Fortunately, Micro-Trains makes special coupler conversion kits for just about every N-scale locomotive ever made. Installing these kits, with their small parts, and a lot of fussy work, is challenging, but quite doable. The special tools in my file "Tips on handling small parts" will help.

Even if you decide to use HO-scale on a 4 x 8 sheet, (which works, it's been done hundreds of times, but I don't particularly recommend it * )
you will still need to learn to mount couplers.
Very few HO-scale cars, or locomotives, come with Kadee couplers factory-mounted. Nearly all will have some other brand of couplers on them from the factory. I would simply use whatever couplers come on the car to start out. If you find you have repetitive problems with the couplers on one or two cars, then replace those couplers with Kadees.

By contrast, Micro-Trains has a huge selection of N-scale freight cars, and, as mentioned, some heavyweight passenger cars, and all M-T cars come with their Micro-Trains couplers factory-installed.

(* I don't recommend doing that because what you can fit on a 4 x 8, using HO-scale, is pretty limited.) 


Yes, I know the type of small, plastic, folding, sawhorses you're talking about, and the folding tables. I once had a pair of those sawhorses, and I still have several of the tables. While either would work, to some extent, I'm going to recommend one folding table per door, and a third table in the corner of your 'L'-shaped layout.
Those plastic sawhorses have a weak spot. The hinged plastic tray under one of my sawhorses came apart, and I ended up throwing it away. Those sawhorses are rather light-duty affairs, and I wouldn't want to trust my layout to their support. If you decide on sawhorses, I suggest using an also small, but much stronger, wooden, type called a "Burro"

My tables have been around my garage for many years, and subjected to a lot of rough treatment. Things on them can break, but it takes a lot to break them. They are plenty strong enough to hold a pair of doors, and even let you lean your weight on them, without breaking.

I do recommend using the following safety measures, if you elect to use these tables to support your layout.

1) Use screws, or even easier, duct tape, to secure the sliding metal ring that keeps the legs from folding up, firmly in place.

2) Use screws to hold the doors to the tables.
Get some self-drilling drywall screws and drive them up from the bottom of the table and into the door.* To make this easier, first position your door exactly where you want it on the table, I would set the table with the legs back about 18" from the shorter end of the door, and center the table side-to side under the door. This will leave a lot more door sticking out over one end of the table, than the other, and will be unstable. That's where the third table in the corner comes into play. It should be set at about 45 degrees to the corner of the room, and have half its length, and one set of legs, under each of the two tables. This corner will also need "splice blocks" small pieces of scrap plywood spanning the joint between the two doors, and screwed up into both doors.

* NOTE: Hollow core doors are um, mostly, hollow! (Duh!) only the edges contain any lumber that will take screws properly. (typically 2 x 2s) The entire middle of these doors is filled with cardboard & air, neither of which will hold a screw worth squat. Since you are going to have the tables in the middle of the doors, to keep the legs set back from the edges, that presents a problem. No part of the table will be directly under either of those 2 x 2s along the edge of the door. You could just screw into the MDF, Masonite, or Luan plywood that forms the surface "skin" of the door. However, those "door skins",(as they are called) are only 1/8th" thick, and won't hold screws all that strongly. For this reason, some modelers have screwed
1 x 3 planks across their hollow core doors, and then screwed the supports to those planks. This system is commonly used when making a table out of a hollow core door, by fastening a set of folding metal legs, similar to the legs of the tables, onto the 1 x 3s and thus onto the door, with good strength all around. So, that's another alternative to the folding tables and may be a bit cheaper, and possibly a little less work. Home Depot sells the folding table legs.

Here's another consideration, if you decide to screw the 1 x 3s across your doors. Drywall, or flathead wood, screws have conical, countersink-type heads. These will often split 1 x 3, or other pine lumber, when they are driven in. To prevent this, use a countersink bit to form the conical hole these screws are designed to fit into. That's one more drill bit to add to your modest collection, and one more drilling step, but it will save you a lot of aggravation by preventing the wood from splitting. Or, you could simply glue the 1 x 3s to the door, without screws, only some Elmer's glue. The legs, or tables, or sawhorses, you choose, could then be screwed onto the 1 x 3s.

Once you have a door positioned properly on top of a table, Use a magic marker to trace the outline of the table onto the bottom of the door. You will find all the screwing together much easier if you set the door upside-down on the floor, and then set the table upside-down on the door with the table inside your marks.

For all this screwing, you're going to need a drill. If you don't already have one, it's worth buying a simple inexpensive model. You will end up using it on the railroad, and around the house, even if you don't do any carpentry. Ryobi makes a small, inexpensive 4 volt model that I have used a lot. There are plenty of others, but you don't need an expensive, professional-duty model. Just something to drill holes for wiring, and to drive screws. You will also need a basic set of drill bits, a screwdriver bit attachment, and possibly a countersink bit. Home Depot carries several such sets, along with the doors, and screws.

I bought my tables at Costco, but Home Depot, or even Amazon, may stock similar tables.
At the back of a Home Depot store there is a large saw where employees cut wood to size for customers. Near this is a barrel of scraps, which are cheap, or even free for the asking. You should be able to find some scraps of plywood there for your "splice blocks." The splice blocks will need to be added last, after both tables have been screwed to the doors, and everything turned upright. Likewise, the corner table will need to be screwed from below, While you're at Home Depot, pick up a pair of safety goggles to protect your one and only pair of eyes while lying on your back, and drilling upward under the table. The reason for doing the final assembly this way is that things are going to get too big and heavy for one person to flip over safely if everything is assembled upside down into one huge, heavy, chunk.

I know I've given you an awful lot to think about here, but you do have several options, and the deciding is, and should be, up to you.


Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

I like Unitrack, so I agree with your decision on that. If you decide to go N gauge, on a single door, Kato sells a Master track set M2 that has a loop with a single siding on it. It comes with the power pack and turnout control switches and is everything you need to run a train except for the train. You can expand later with their variation V5 and V1 set to get an inner loop also with a siding on it. You would need a second power pack for the inner loop unless you were ready to go to DCC by then. This was how I started in December except that I used a 4x8 sheet instead of a door. If you do buy Kato trains, you can get DC trains that are easily upgraded to DCC later. The cost of the DCC board is very roughly comparable to the cost difference between DC and DCC from them.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'll offer one piece of advice to add to the replies. If this REALLY is a "get your feet wet, learning experience" prior to building something more sophisticated, then I think you're throwing money away if you're going to, say, start with Kato Unitrack and maybe convert to flex track later, or start in DC and convert to DCC later. If you do that, you're buying things that won't grow with you, and not learning skills that you will need later (or learning ones that won't be much use later). Start now, on this layout, learning the building blocks for your later expansion, and use products that will grow with you. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. That's how we learn.

Similarly, give serious consideration to building modules that can become part of a larger whole as your skills improve and you start thinking of expansion.

For scale, you seem to understand the tradeoffs already, so no one can help you more than that. You'll have to make the call that is right for you and your situation. What's right for me isn't necessarily going to be right for you.

And finally, you don't need to stick with one manufacturer. Everything in HO scale is (more or less) compatible; likewise N and all the others. Some design considerations will need to be taken into account: how sharp your curves are will limit how long your cars / locos can be; mixing track codes requires a little more finesse than using all one code, large models may not fit in available space, different couplers aren't always compatible, and so on. But basically, as long as you stay in one scale, everything is designed to work with other items in that scale.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I've become a real fan of the marklin of sweden model train videos.

He has a new beginner series using ikea tables as a base.

While the layout is kit based I think they could be copied using your own methods.

At the very least you'll probably get some ideas. I did.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> I'll offer one piece of advice to add to the replies. If this REALLY is a "get your feet wet, learning experience" prior to building something more sophisticated, then I think you're throwing money away if you're going to, say, start with Kato Unitrack and maybe convert to flex track later, or start in DC and convert to DCC later. If you do that, you're buying things that won't grow with you, and not learning skills that you will need later (or learning ones that won't be much use later). Start now, on this layout, learning the building blocks for your later expansion, and use products that will grow with you. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. That's how we learn.
> 
> Similarly, give serious consideration to building modules that can become part of a larger whole as your skills improve and you start thinking of expansion.
> 
> ...


CTValley raises some good points here.

I will point out that Kato Unitrack doesn't need to be scrapped if you later want to add some flex track. While the two are not designed to just plug together, it is both possible, and fairly simple, to adapt them to connect to each other.

Also many a DC power pack has gone on serving a useful function on a "converted to DCC" layout, as a power supply for turnouts, and accessories.

Likewise, it is possible to convert a DC locomotive to DCC, though I agree that if you think you are likely to want sound, and/or DCC operation of multiple trains in the future, It may be better to start out with DCC right from the get go. 
Some locomotives are sold as "DCC ready." These are simply DC locomotives that typically have a plug inside where you can plug a DCC decoder into them later. You do have to buy the decoder separately. Also, some "DCC onboard" locomotives will run on either DCC, or on DC.

I also agree with CTValley's caution that using  "convenience products" like Unitrack won't teach you how to lay flex track properly, but I don't know if you want to use flex track, now, or even later, that's up to you. I mentioned, in my own response, that there are tradeoffs in virtually every decision you will make.

An exception to the general truth CTV states, that "everything in a given scale is designed to work with other products in that scale", is Kato couplers. They couple quite well with each other, but do not stay coupled well with other brands, at least not consistently.

I also agree with CTValley about making a modular, or sectional, railroad. My own railroad is sectional, and I promote sectional construction. However, I didn't mention it to you for two reasons.

First, you have said that you don't want to construct any more than you have to. "No tools, skills, or inclination." (another missed education opportunity, but a valid choice to be made by you, for you.)

Second, The hollow core doors could be considered "sections" in their own right, albeit large ones. The 'L'-shaped layout you are thinking about can be disassembled, and moved, fairly easily. You could even add on another door later, if you wanted to.

Traction Fan


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

traction fan said:


> I will point out that Kato Unitrack doesn't need to be scrapped if you later want to add some flex track. While the two are not designed to just plug together, it is both possible, and fairly simple, to adapt them to connect to each other.
> 
> Also many a DC power pack has gone on serving a useful function on a "converted to DCC" layout, as a power supply for turnouts, and accessories.


@NCRailRookie, I have to say that I have taken a lot of Traction Fan's advice and found him to be very helpful. I did want to add a little to these two points though, that might help make your decision easier. I like Unitrack and have stuck with it so far. There is no guarantee that I will do so in the future though. There are a lot of advantages to flex track that I think are beyond my skill level right now but won't always be. And Kato obviously agrees because they have decided to start making flex track. They have it listed on their web site at N-Gauge UNITRACK - KATO USA : Precision Railroad Models. It says it is coming soon but I do not know how soon. Even more importantly though is that they included in their lineup an adapter track section to go from Unitrack to flex track. I cannot see how that could limit you to Kato's flex track only. It might give you a lot more choices in the future.

On keeping the DC power pack, I have a specific usage for me. Of course, my situation may not apply to you. When I was first starting, my LHS pointed out that a good first step for DCC is teh Digitrax Zephyr. And that command station has a special function where it was designed to take the output from the DC power pack like Kato's and use it to control a DCC train as a jump throttle. I used two DC power packs for my two ovals when I started and I am still using them plugged into my Zephyr. They only give the person a control of speed and direction instead of all the functions of the DCC throttle, but they are perfect for me to let my granddaughters play with the trains while we are running them. My three granddaughters (6, 8, and 12 year olds) who have done this love trains too now. It is a great way to make this a family hobby. I don't know if you have others you would want to share this with later, and I don't know if any other DCC control stations have that option, but it helped me not waste money by going DC first and then changing to DCC when I expanded.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

traction fan said:


> CTValley raises some good points here.
> 
> I will point out that Kato Unitrack doesn't need to be scrapped if you later want to add some flex track. While the two are not designed to just plug together, it is both possible, and fairly simple, to adapt them to connect to each other.
> 
> ...


You obviously missed in the second to last line in my post, where I said "different couplers aren't always compatible...." Not everything in the same scale plays nice out of the box.

Yes, you can nitpick whether things truly are reusable, but the overall point was intended to be "learn to use flex track now, on a smaller scale" not "don't waste your money on Unitrack". I have found, however, that people with a lot of stuff already will often try too hard to incorporate it, rather than planning with a clean slate. Yes, you can certainly FIND a use for a lot of stuff, but if you KNOW you'll move past it someday, I'd start using what you're going to end up using, just on a smaller scale.


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

traction fan said:


> NCRailRookie:
> 
> To accomplish your simple goal, and stay within your limited construction limitations, I think you have the right idea in using hollow core doors. My present layout (#7) is a lot more elaborate, but I have built two N-scale layouts on hollow core doors, and they worked just fine. I agree with you K.I.S.S. principle approach. From your post, I gather that the last thing you want now, is anything the least bit complicated. You have many choices and some of those are presented in the attached files, which I wrote specifically for Newbies like yourself. Much of what's in them may be of more help further along in your model railroading experience, but some of the basic choices will apply now. I am going to make a few recommendations, but that's all they are, suggestions, not commandments. There is no one "Right" or "Wrong" way to build a model railroad. Everything is for you to decide. My recommendations are intended to make things a simple as possible, for you as you start out. You can always get more sophisticated later, but for now let's keep it simple.
> 
> ...


My benchwork for my 72 x 48 TT scale layout is one of those 72 x 30 folding tables from Wal Mart. I have two 54 in. 2 x 4 on each end of the table, and using 1 in. blue foam on top of a styrofoam sub base.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

What brands do you purchase for your TT layout?


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> What brands do you purchase for your TT layout?


BTTB and Tillig 
and since I'm modeling the Duisburg Wedau DB Gleisbau train yard I also have some cranes
Peresvet 4210 


https://www.ttnut.com/download/file.php?id=892&sid=aeb117b42254afb6ae5ed5a59276a5ea&mode=view


Extra 9083a 


9083a Extra :: Crane EDK 300/5 - SCHWEERbau :: Hobby-Shop


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Have you checked prices for items at Modellbahn Shop-Lippe? Usually the cheapest and fast flat rate €27 UPS shipping to the States. Tons of stock ready to ship too.


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> Have you checked prices for items at Modellbahn Shop-Lippe? Usually the cheapest and fast flat rate €27 UPS shipping to the States. Tons of stock ready to ship too.


Yes I have, I get their newsletter, and this is where I've purchased my Tillig starter set and the other 4 expansion sets. Many more things, the gleis katalog than samples of different roadbeds, tram concret road tracks for in front of my Temos locomotive shed. IIRC the quickest arrive to Florida was a week.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Rich1853 said:


> My benchwork for my 72 x 48 TT scale layout is one of those 72 x 30 folding tables from Wal Mart. I have two 54 in. 2 x 4 on each end of the table, and using 1 in. blue foam on top of a styrofoam sub base.


The issue with folding table is that they are low (30") and rickety. My advice would be to build something higher (in the neighborhood of 42-48", depending on your build). Also, you'll want something sturdy, so that an accidental bump doesn't result in a derailment (best case) or something taking the death plunge to the floor (worst case). One damaged loco can easily offset the cost savings from a cheap folding table.

If you really don't want to undertake any carpentry, prefabricated benchwork is available from Woodland Scenics, mianne, and Sievers (and maybe others I don't know about). It ain't cheap, but it's high quality.


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

CTValleyRR said:


> The issue with folding table is that they are low (30") and rickety. My advice would be to build something higher (in the neighborhood of 42-48", depending on your build). Also, you'll want something sturdy, so that an accidental bump doesn't result in a derailment (best case) or something taking the death plunge to the floor (worst case). One damaged loco can easily offset the cost savings from a cheap folding table.
> 
> If you really don't want to undertake any carpentry, prefabricated benchwork is available from Woodland Scenics, mianne, and Sievers (and maybe others I don't know about). It ain't cheap, but it's high quality.


Yes they are low, my blue foam is 34 inches from the floor. Also the one I purchased is very stable, the legs are shaped like a bell, not straight, also the top is molded plastic or fiberglass more stable than thin metal. There is also avaiable 8 foot lengths.
Maybe you could build a U channel under each row of legs to raise the table.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Or set the legs on concrete blocks.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

When did Kato start making TT scale track?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Rich1853 said:


> Yes they are low, my blue foam is 34 inches from the floor. Also the one I purchased is very stable, the legs are shaped like a bell, not straight, also the top is molded plastic or fiberglass more stable than thin metal. The tables are also available in 8 foot lengths.
> Maybe you could build a U channel under each row of legs to raise the table.


Or you can just sit down, and operate your layout from a chair. 
If the table is still too low then you can put pieces of 1/2"-3/4" EMT metal electrical conduit inside the tubular legs of the table and screw them to the legs at any height you want. A bit more work than setting the legs on blocks, but the extended legs are able to move with the table, and can't fall off as is possible with blocks. I used tis method on one of my tables, and it works well. 

Traction Fan


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## Rich1853 (Jun 25, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> When did Kato start making TT scale track?


I'm sure that reply from India is incorrect. The only thing common between Kato unitrack and Tillig bedding track are the joiners.


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