# AC or DC



## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Hi everyone.
I am looking for some help with some knowledge. I am considering buying an N scale Fleischmann set, Piccolo 9372. 
Does anyone know if it is AC or DC?
I posted over in the N section and didn't get any hits.

Thanks for any help.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

N Scale trains like this one are DC. Some others can be DCC, but
not AC. Most 0 gauge trains are AC.

Don


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

DonR said:


> N Scale trains like this one are DC. Some others can be DCC, but
> not AC. Most 0 gauge trains are AC.
> 
> Don


Thanks Don, I thought so. I wanted to make sure because it looks like most of their HO is run on AC.


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Say DonR, do you think my HO scale controller will be fine with it?
I have one of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lio...968976?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item54051bec90


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

No, that one will not work. It is a Lionel transformer. that one supplies AC power to the track. Look for a MRC Tech 2 (II) to a Tech 4.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I agree with RRgrassi

Tho it is listed on Ebay as an HO transformer it appears to be
an AC transformer for 3 rail 0 gauge trains. It is rated at 90 watts.
Usually DC power packs are rated in amperage.

You should not use it with any HO train tracks. It would be satisfactory
for powering any accessories or turnouts.

Don


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)




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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

This is actual pic of mine. This does put out a DC signal. I'm not very tech savy so I may have put the wrong pic.
This will be my first N scale, that is the reason for these questions. Just want to make sure.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Do not use that one, unless you want to fry your N gauge stuff.

You need something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MRC-Tech-II-2-Railmaster-2400-Model-100-Transformer-HO-N-Scale-/171250146572?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item27df4ddd0c


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the input and your patience, this will be my first N scale and Flieschmann product. 
I have a few more controllers, will this work?






.
It is the rail power 1370.


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)




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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks DonR and rrgrassi for the help. I found the info needed. If I get the set I will post pics.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Sir, BOTH of the powerpacks you have shown here, are DC power packs. The MRC Railpower 1370 is a fine power pack, and will be fine with N scale. That particular Lionel 0100 power pack is indeed a DC power pack. Lionel has made DC powered HO scale trains before, in the 1960's and 1970's. Look closely on the label, it says "0-14 V. D.C". It's designed for HO scale trains, and produces 0-14 volts of DC power. You could use that particular Lionel power pack for HO or N scale trains, espcially with the older HO model trains (like from 1950's through 1970's) when everything had old style open frame motors. Nowadays most model trains have much more efficient can motors, which draw much less amperage to run. You could use your 0100 Lionel power pack to power modern N scale trains, but don't expect great speed control at slow switching speeds. The MRC 1370 will be much better at slow speed control, because it has updated circuity inside. The MRC 1370 is powered by a digital potentiometer, while the old Lionel is a analog rheostat. The potentiometer in the MRC can give much better slow speed control because it's transistorized, while the rheostat in the Lionel (or any rheostat) is not. 

By the way, the vast majority of Lionel power packs you come across will be ONLY for AC powered trains (such as 0-27 Lionel, Marx, etc; and also S scale American Flyer).


Edit:

Even if you don't use the Lionel pack for running trains, it should be fine to operate accessories such as lights and switches (turnouts).


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

The vast majority of N scale ever made, has been 2 rail DC powered (and many now come with a DCC chip). One oddity was Ibertren in Spain, which produced a 3-rail system for many years before finally switching to 2-rail. While another oddity was Lone Star in England, which made some push (i.e. hand) powered trains in N gauge. That along with electric powered "Treble-O-Lectric" for a few years in the early 1960's. 

remember that Treble-O-Lectric are electric powered. Treble-O-Trains (which, like the early push-alongs from the 1950's) are unpowered.

But other then that stuff, everything else is normal DC (or DCC) powered trains, which run on N gauge track. 

Hope I did not confuse you any.

Howard


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

@Howard 1975
Thanks for the detailed response, very interesting info.
At first I wasn't sure if the set was AC or DC. After the current type was established I wasn't sure if the older style Lionel transformer would be appropriate even though it has worked fine with my other DC locos.
Thanks to the help that you all have provided I think that I am prepared to do this. 
This seems to be a great community much like LPF.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Oh boy we did get it wrong.  The pics of that Lionel power pack on the web were
not clear. I saw a blur in the middle of it's top that was unreadable. The later
pic clearly showed that mice type stating that it had 0-14 V DC. 

So you do have a lot of DC power for your N scale.

Don


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## Ray Haddad (Feb 19, 2014)

Dreaming, your transformer will work just fine but note that the voltage goes all the way to 14 volts versus the recommended 12 volts. Just be sure to use the two left power terminals and not the right which is, indeed, AC. If you decided to use it, get a multimeter and adjust the voltage for + and then - 12 volts. Either mark it on your faceplate or get some bumpons and put them so the knob cannot be turned too far by accident.

What are bumpons? Well, my friend, those are the little rubber feet underneath a lot of electronic items that keep you from marring your desk or counter top. You can get them at virtually any electronics store or hardware store. Hardware stores keep them in the bits and bobs section for furniture makers.


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks Ray, helpful info.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Dreaming said:


> @Howard 1975
> Thanks for the detailed response, very interesting info.
> At first I wasn't sure if the set was AC or DC. After the current type was established I wasn't sure if the older style Lionel transformer would be appropriate even though it has worked fine with my other DC locos.
> Thanks to the help that you all have provided I think that I am prepared to do this.
> This seems to be a great community much like LPF.


You're welcome.


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Purchase was made. I will post a vid or some pics soon. Thanks to everyone that helped me.


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Dreaming, how is everything working out for you, with your new purchase?


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks again everyone. The set came today. I put the track together and the train ran fine. However, I have some learning to do because I don't know how to wire the switches properly. They have three wires coming from them, a brown, yellow, and a black one. Also, there is a short piece of track that has two wires, a yellow and a black, and I don't know what it is for. Here is a pic of it.







The directions are in German and I am still a new guy when it comes to this hobby.
This set has a few years on it and I think this is the first time the loco has had power put to it, do you think I should give it a little lube?


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

More pics.


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)




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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)




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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)




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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

Tried to load a video from my iPad but I don't know how yet..


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## gator do 65 (Jan 27, 2014)

The original unit states 14 v dc 2.5 amp right in the middle should work fine!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Nice looking European train. 

Don't know anything about Fleichsmann, but I'll put forward
a couple of guesses on your wiring questions.

First, the three wires from the turnout:

Black is usually common here in the US.
So, likely on your turnouts. The yellow
and Brown wires would be from push
buttons to throw either straight ahead
or diverting. The turnouts normally are powered
from the Accessories terminals on the power pack.
Be careful, DO NOT CONNECT the turnout. You would
burn out it's sensitive solenoid coils. For testing
my theory, just a quick touch (or button push) of the
wires to the power pack. Try Black and Brown, then
Black and yellow. If that does not throw the points 
both ways, try other combinations until points are
thrown BOTH ways.

The track piece with the 2 wires seems to have
a solenoid as part of it. My guess is that it's
a remote control uncoupling device. Or, if you
have an action car of some sort it might be an
activator for that. It should have a push button
that also is powered by the Accessories terminals
on your power pack. Same warning applies.

Did you get the buttons to control those devices?


Don


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

DonR said:


> Nice looking European train.
> 
> Don't know anything about Fleichsmann, but I'll put forward
> a couple of guesses on your wiring questions.
> ...


Don,
Yes, both the switches and that little track came with control pieces. I will get pics up tonight.


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## Dreaming (Jan 16, 2014)

*Pics*

Here is a pic of the controllers. The one on left with two white wires is a push button. There was one in the set. The one on the right with yellow, white and brown wires has a slide that moves left and right. There were two of these.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm gonna keep on guessing.

The one on the left is controller for the track section that
might be an uncoupler.

The one on the right appears to have a black button in the
center and the lever. I'd guess that you move the lever
right or left, then push the button.

You could test these with a multimeter set to AC 20 or so volts or
an auto tail light bulb or some other 12 volt bulb.

I'd suggest hooking the WHITE wire to the accessory 
terminals on the power pack. Connect one side of the
test light to the other power pack accessory terminal.

Connect the Yellow wire to the other side of the test light.
Push the button. If it lights, you would connect the yellow to
the yellow on the turnout. If it doesn't flip the switch then
push the button again. It should light this time. The brown
wire would connect to the brown on the turnout. 

You can do the same test with the other unit. Connect one 
of it's wires to the accessory terminal and the other to the
bulb which is connected also to the other accessory terminal.
It should light when you push the button.

If these tests show right, you would connect the black wire of
the turnouts to one accessory terminal, the white wire of each
control to the other. The turnout points should move when you
flip the lever and push the button. Don't hold the button down
tho, you could burn out a solenoid coil quickly.

You'd have to try a pair of coupled cars on that wired track. Connect
either wire of the track to the accessory terminal and
the other wire to one wire on the button unit. The other
button wire to the other accessory termina. Push the button to see if there is an uncoupling action of some sort. Again, be careful with that button.

Let us know how it comes out. 

It's always interesting to find out how things are done 'over
there'.

Don


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## Howard1975 (Jan 6, 2014)

Nice train set there. I'm assuming one of those tracks in an uncoupling track. Those types of uncoupling tracks are more common with European brands, who always use the rapido coupler, instead of the knuckle coupler which is popular in North America.


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