# Hi! New here



## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Just starting out in hobby.Are power supply and transformer both needed to run train.I thought I would be spending less money by buying pieces off ebay rather than buying new set,but what do I power a HO scale with?

And will all brands of locomotives run on the same track with same power?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the power supply is the transformer as a rule, so generally that would be a no.

Welcome to the forum.

You will have to be using DCC to run multiple engines on the same track from the same power supply.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

zzlentz, Welcome to the forum!
Hope this helps.
Power supply and transformer are somewhat the same item.
For clarity DC trains use a power pack witch is a transformer and other items to make DC power for the trains and AC power for the Accessories.
In HO trains there are 3 ways to go.
Maklin and some other European is the oddity it runs off of AC power.
99% of the rest of HO runs off of DC power.
last and not least there is DCC power.
All HO trains run on the same track with the exception of older equipment having to large of wheel flanges to run on the newer shorter tracks Code 83 and smaller.
MRC makes some of the power packs for DC trains (tech 4's) being the newest.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You will have to be using DCC to run multiple engines on the same track from the same power supply.


I don't know anything about DCC.I had a little train as a boy,but you just flipped an on swwitch and off they went.Trains have really evolved.
Is that a DCC engine,track,or both?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's a link to explain it: What is DCC


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

NIMT.COM said:


> zzlentz, Welcome to the forum!
> Hope this helps.
> Power supply and transformer are somewhat the same item.
> For clarity DC trains use a power pack witch is a transformer and other items to make DC power for the trains and AC power for the Accessories.
> ...


I have to say this is all greek to me.I just want a simple little 4x8 with 2 trains and town.

Thanks for help and the welcome!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

The best or I should say easy way to get started in trains is to buy a starter set, then add in the extras as you go along. That way you get the necessary starting components to make it work form the get go.
It would save you more in the long run.
Not trying to over complicate this at all.
Yes model trains have changed so drastically in just a few years.
Simple wording 
DC is old school, turn power up train goes, reverse polarity train goes in other direction.
DCC is high tech, Computer chip in loco is controlled by controller and track always has max power.
A lot of options present it's self for DCC Trains, you can basically control any thing you want.
Most DC trains can be converted down the line if you want too.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

ZZ,

Just adding a bit to the good comments from others above ...

In HO, you can run multiple trains in either of two options ...

1. Old school ... conventional DC power. Track layout is broken into "blocks" that are wired and powered individually. That way, you can turn on (or off) individual sections, and run multiple trains. A train can, of course, cross over from one block section to the next, but you'd have to toggle block and switch power accordingly.

2. DCC ... modern, and ideal for multiple trains. Essentially, track power contains "coded" info (much like a bar code on something you would buy at a grocery store), and each loco has a special "decoder" computer chip that interprets the special instructions. Multiple trains can all run concurrently and be controlled individually on the full track layout, which is basically wired as one simple block.

Regards,

TJ


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Thanks all for help.
I will defininatly get the DCC. But,I still need to know,is it just the locomotive that is DCC,or also the track and transformer? Can I buy any track,and transformer,and it will work with a DCC train?


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## TONOFFUN80 (Jan 9, 2010)

With dcc you can run any track but the transformer is the dcc controler
do a serch for mrc prodigy express or advanced, digitrax or nce controlers 
bachmann all so make a controler. If you are just starting out do some reserch to see what fits your needs. Digitrax is probibly the most easily 
expanded but all do make a booster to run more trains.(most starter dcc will run 3-4 engines)

the engines all need to have a decoder installed if you don't have any engines you can get ones with decoder already on board. Or if you already have an engine you can install one with minimal wiring expirence i nmost cases.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

DCC is a computer chip that goes in the engine and a controller controls it.
The track is powered with the controller and Some of the controllers are powered by a transformer.
Number one thing is to pick a DCC System then I could tell you all of what you need for that particular system.
I'm a Digitrax fan but there are other systems out there too.
The one system I would caution you too avoid is EZ DCC By Bachmann, it is so basic that you cannot do a lot of the standard things with it and you can not expand it!
Digitrax is expandable to the moon and pretty much so is NCE systems.
If you need links or advice just ask.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Now...about trolleys....do all trolleys have to run by antenna wire?
Or are there some that are powered by track like trains?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can get trolleys that are powered from either source, you have to be specific. Obviously, it's easier to run a track powered trolley, you don't have to string the overhead wires.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Can couplers be switched out on trains with ease?
Change knuckle to horn and hook?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Couplers can be switched out. 
Changing from Knuckle to Horn and Hook, Tougher, not many aftermarket parts!
Changing from Horn and Hook to Knuckle, easy Kadee makes every part needed to do the job.


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## BrooklynBound718 (Dec 23, 2010)

NIMT.COM said:


> DCC is a computer chip that goes in the engine and a controller controls it.
> The track is powered with the controller and Some of the controllers are powered by a transformer.
> Number one thing is to pick a DCC System then I could tell you all of what you need for that particular system.
> I'm a Digitrax fan but there are other systems out there too.
> ...


Welcome ZZlentz. This is a great forum that you are on. I am new to the hobby as well. I would like to co-sign Sean's statement from the above quote, "The one system I would caution you too avoid is EZ DCC By Bachmann, it is so basic that you cannot do a lot of the standard things with it and you can not expand it!" I agree 100%. I had that EZ DCC by Bachmann for 24 hours and discovered that the EZ DCC system could not provide the power to push my DCC loco with sound. Needless to say, I had to return the EZ DCC and upgrade to a starter NCE system. I am very happy with NCE.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Ok,here's a dumb question probably,but I want street lights,etc. on my layout.
Does each light need it's own powerpak,or where do their power come from.This isn't for DCC.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You use a separate transformer for the lights, you can power lots of them from one supply. Generally, for HO, the track power is DC, but the accessories are usually AC.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You use a separate transformer for the lights, you can power lots of them from one supply. Generally, for HO, the track power is DC, but the accessories are usually AC.


Still not real clear on this.So,I need a separate power supply AND transformer?
You spoke of TRACK power,do I attach wire to track?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

zzlentz, Any type of power source works, Old train power packs work well for this job, Just run a pair of wires around the table in what they call a bus, then when you put in a building, lamppost, or sign, you just connect those wires to the bus and tada you got power to your accessory. It is the same for DC as well as DCC.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

Would bus be the same as saying "wire in series"? Or is this bus an item I need to purchase?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The accessories would be wired in parallel, the "bus" is just the two wires going around the whole layout so you have a place to connect them. Typically, the bus is heavier gauge wire than the individual accessory connections.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The accessories would be wired in parallel, the "bus" is just the two wires going around the whole layout so you have a place to connect them. Typically, the bus is heavier gauge wire than the individual accessory connections.


I see,I think. So I run the wires around table,and where I want a light,I just "bare" the wire at that point and tie on?


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Another, and I think much more simple, way to slay this dragon is to use terminal strips. I have one on each side of my 4'X8' table to accept the numerous wires coming from my building lights, track switches, etc. that use 12 volt DC power.
They are cheap, available at Radio Shack or your LHS, and easy to use.
I then run a heavier guage wire from a 12 volt transformer (I use a DEDICATED 12 volt transformer for this purpose) to each terminal strip.
Look at a terminal strip as a "gathering spot" that you can hide under your table for the numerous wires. This keeps everything neat and tidy.
Take your time and have fun with it! 
Cheers,
Bob


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There are also cheaper on-line places to pick up barrier strips.

For instance: http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-9-Screw-Ter...486205?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf56400bd

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-New-Multi-Pos...499?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb553bc1b

http://cgi.ebay.com/KULKA-8-TERMINA...408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb36a3018

Etc.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> There are also cheaper on-line places to pick up barrier strips.
> 
> For instance: http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-9-Screw-Ter...486205?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf56400bd
> 
> ...


Thanks,
I ordered some that say 3 amp. Will they work?
Do I just plug it in to an AC adaptor,or need something else?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I think 3A accessories are far and few between, so I think they'll do.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, I think 3A accessories are far and few between, so I think they'll do.


You mean now that I have them,I won't find a light to use it on?
What do I need to make these burn?

http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Life-Like-St...l_RR_Trains&hash=item51961a55e1#ht_1587wt_698


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, they're 16V fixtures, so I'd run them on anything from 12V to 16V. Since they're incandescent bulbs, AC or DC will work fine. Many HO powerpacks have an accessory output, if they don't, just pick up a cheap transformer somewhere like eBay.


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## zzlentz (Feb 21, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, they're 16V fixtures, so I'd run them on anything from 12V to 16V. Since they're incandescent bulbs, AC or DC will work fine. Many HO powerpacks have an accessory output, if they don't, just pick up a cheap transformer somewhere like eBay.


Thanks disregard PM


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ok.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

BrooklynBound718 said:


> Welcome ZZlentz. This is a great forum that you are on. I am new to the hobby as well. I would like to co-sign Sean's statement from the above quote, "The one system I would caution you too avoid is EZ DCC By Bachmann, it is so basic that you cannot do a lot of the standard things with it and you can not expand it!" I agree 100%. I had that EZ DCC by Bachmann for 24 hours and discovered that the EZ DCC system could not provide the power to push my DCC loco with sound. Needless to say, I had to return the EZ DCC and upgrade to a starter NCE system. I am very happy with NCE.


Sean, you disappointed me on this one. I thought we were buds.........

I will actually counter what these two have to say about the Bachmann EZ Command. I have one and love everything about it except the lack of programming abilities. I can and have run four trains at once (none have sound so that may add more power draw) and the EZ Command can be expanded to some degree. From the command center (the primary piece that is a throttle and booster in one) you can daisy chain distibution panels (for large layouts) and use the Walkaround module that adds additional throttles to the system. The walkaround doesnt need to stay plugged in all the time for the trains to continue running, it is just and expansion of the command center. You can also buy a 5 amp booster that goes inline from the command center to the track to increase the power.

So for the little layouts or even some medium sized layouts, the EZ Command is simple and, well, EZ. If you want to get into programming, you can always get a Digitrax PR3 and use your home computer to make programming changes on a seperate track from the layout. A big bonus with the EZ Command too is that it is very easy for kids to run. I know, everyone will say their kids can run the others, but all I had to do was color the button assigned to Thomas and my 3 year old was able to run him. Its that simple.

Now I will shoot myself in the foot and say that I did buy a Digitrax Zephyr, and I cant really explain why other than I had the money and wanted more programming options as well as add wireless controllers, which isnt an option for the EZ Command. But the second the kids have any issues trying to remember button sequences to run the trains, the EZ will go back in service and the Zephyr will get sidelined for programming only duties.


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## BrooklynBound718 (Dec 23, 2010)

cabledawg said:


> Sean, you disappointed me on this one. I thought we were buds.........
> 
> I will actually counter what these two have to say about the Bachmann EZ Command. I have one and love everything about it except the lack of programming abilities. I can and have run four trains at once (none have sound so that may add more power draw) and the EZ Command can be expanded to some degree. From the command center (the primary piece that is a throttle and booster in one) you can daisy chain distibution panels (for large layouts) and use the Walkaround module that adds additional throttles to the system. The walkaround doesnt need to stay plugged in all the time for the trains to continue running, it is just and expansion of the command center. You can also buy a 5 amp booster that goes inline from the command center to the track to increase the power.
> 
> ...


@ Cabledawg, for the most part that is pretty much how the Bachmann EZ Command was pitched to me in the beginning. Unfortunately, I purchased my DCC loco with sound and EZ Command the same day. One thing I would like to respectfully counter in your "counter" is cost. The Bachmann EZ Command and 5 amp booster cost $59.99 (EZ Command) and 159.99 (5 Amp Booster)=$219.98 before taxes at Model Trains Stuff. My NCE starter system with power supply and cab is just $149.99 and it has more than enough power to drive 4 DCC locos and sound.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

The NCE starter system is rated for only 2 amps vice the 1 amp for EZ w/o the booster. Add the 5 amp and it becomes apples and oranges. Additionally, I bought my EZ for $100 new on eBay and it came with a loco.

I'm not saying NCE or Digitrax or any other isnt far superior to EZ Command, but you gotta admit that for a starter setup on a small layout for someone who isnt a DCC rocket scientist, the EZ is hard to beat for the price and simplicity. But like everything else, EZ has its place, right down there on the entry level. If you cant ride a bike, the 21 speed isnt going to do you any good.:thumbsup:


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## BrooklynBound718 (Dec 23, 2010)

cabledawg said:


> The NCE starter system is rated for only 2 amps vice the 1 amp for EZ w/o the booster. Add the 5 amp and it becomes apples and oranges. Additionally, I bought my EZ for $100 new on eBay and it came with a loco.
> 
> I'm not saying NCE or Digitrax or any other isnt far superior to EZ Command, but you gotta admit that for a starter setup on a small layout for someone who isnt a DCC rocket scientist, the EZ is hard to beat for the price and simplicity. But like everything else, EZ has its place, right down there on the entry level. If you cant ride a bike, the 21 speed isnt going to do you any good.:thumbsup:


Well, I will give you that one. I did spend a little more time reading the NCE manual than I did watching the EZ command DVD, :laugh:


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I just hate when people discredit entry level stuff simply because its entry level.

Another hobby I have is airsoft, which is like paintball but with plastic bb's. Quite fun actually. But the experinced players would forget where they came from when noobs would come looking for advice on thier first gun. "I have $100, what is a good starter?" Well the experinced players would jump right in and say that to get any "good" gun, you had to go to the $300-$400 market. But these new folks werent even sure they wanted to stick with the sport, they were just looking for something to start out with and move up if they liked it. Then if they didnt, they werent out a ton of money. The same thing for trains. Everyone has to start somewhere and while most of us here have a long history with trains, not everyone else coming in does. I personally knew nothing about DCC until last fall when I bought the EZ and dove in head first. THe more I read and researched, the more I learned about what systems were capable of what and the strong points of each. I'm still no DCC expert, but I had to start somewhere.


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