# Layout challange



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, I have a vexing issue that I'm trying to sort out. This is using O31 track and switches. 

I'm doing an 8 x 13 layout, in the middle there will be a oblong helix with dual tracks to a pair of ceiling tracks. I'm trying to figure out a way to allow trains to come up the helix and go either way on their assigned track. I also want to be able to set the switches to allow the trains on the ceiling tracks to go round-n-round. I have mostly 022 switches, but I have several of the 3010/3011 switches that I can use to minimize the switch footprint. I also have a couple of 45 degree crossovers that it appears I'll probably need to make all this work.

I've been tinkering with this for some time, and I can't seem to come up with a plan to have the trains come off the helix and be able to transition as I described.

Here's a crude diagram of the layout location and relationship to the ceiling track.


----------



## nsr_civic (Jun 21, 2010)

can you add rough dimensions to your drawing? ill try my hand at it... lolz


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the layout area is 8' x 13'. The helix is planned using O31 track with the inner track having four curves and four straights on a side. The outer track will have an extra straight piece in the middle of the curve, and one in the side. Those pieces will be cut to the smallest I can and still have sufficient track spacing on the helix to allow trains to pass. As far as the ceiling track, the dimensions aren't an issue, I just need to get from the helix to the ceiling tracks. Once they're on the tracks up there, it's just a simple loop, I got that covered. 


Plan B is to have the helix join in one direction for each track and still have both tracks allowed to do a continuous loop. That's thinking ahead if I can't get what I really want to happen here.


----------



## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

Well, I'm sure you know I have no clue - however, I love the plan.

Sounds like it's going to be a lot fun when you get it working the way you want.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, that's *IF* I get it working the way I want. At a minimum, I have to be able to get trains up the helix and run around each track. I have toyed with the idea of making the helix single track, but it would be so cool to have the dual tracked one.  

I still hold out hope.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Here is one solution.
There are alot more I'll work on the next best.
This was done without regaurd to what kind's of switches because the catalog I have does not have those switches in it.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Give me a couple days. I'm not used to O scale. But I think Sean has an excellent design with the switch tracks.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

If I was going to do a Helix this is how I would to both the top and the bottom of the Helix transition.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sean, is that using the O-gauge library in AnyRail? What switches did you specify? I'm amazed that 022 switches aka 5132/5133 switches aren't in the catalog, that's the standard O31 tubular track switch. I can understand that the 3010/3011 switches might not be in there, they seem to be hard to find.

I haven't figured on the bottom part yet, I figured to solve one issue at a time. I'd love to get building, but I really want to understand how I'm going to solve issues like this before I start cutting lumber. 

Sean, I like this idea, it looks like I might be able to do this or something like this in my situation. One issue is that the tracks overlap the top of the helix, I may have to rethink the orientation of the helix to allow the overhead track connection to be away from the helix. I'm worried about the trains going down not having clearance under those tracks. If the helix was oriented right where those tracks exited right at the top, it might work out for clearance.

If you used 022 switches, that's the ones I have a lot of. I have four each of the 3010/3011 switches, so in order to make things smaller, those might be pressed into service.

As far as the bottom, I was thinking on a simpler connection, since doing something like that on the main platform would take a lot of space in O-gauge. I plan on having a couple of main loops on the main platform, I was thinking I'd just allow trains to be switched over to enter or exit the helix from each of the main tracks. I still want room for some other things to happen. 

I have to say, trying to plan this monster, it's a lot more complicated than the simple flat platforms I've done in the past! Adding the 3rd dimension really complicates things. I'm determined to press forward, but it's taking a lot longer than I imagined when I dreamed up this idea.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Here is another simpler design. I used 0-27 ??? Switches and Track I do believe.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Uggh! No O27 switches, most of my stuff won't navigate them. I'm using straight O31 stuff. 

That's an interesting idea, it might do the trick. It looks a bit simpler than the previous one, and may take a bit less space. Since this is all at ceiling level, I'm trying to minimize the amount of space they take.


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

How about this? (Forgive the low-tech approach to the diagram  )


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What about the second track? That's the problem I'm fighting with. There are two tracks coming up the helix and two ceiling tracks.

The ideal is to allow trains to exit the helix and go either way on their assigned track. Even better would be to allow them to pick either track at the top. See Sean's previous post, that does it all, but it may be pretty bulky with 022 switches up there.


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Ahhh - didn't catch that. You could do basically the same thing, but you'd need a crossover for the RH track to cross the LH track at the turnaround.

Double track up the helix then a LH turn for both tracks where they want to go back the other way. You'd have less cross-overs to maintain/control and only 2 switches to deal with. Add a cross-over somewhere along the line in a straightaway to allow trains to switch tracks and you're done.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

GRJ,
In SCRAM are there any of the switches listed that are the one's you want to use?


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

sstlaure, 
What about wanting to leave the trains running on the ceiling track without coming down the helix?


----------



## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

NIMT said:


> sstlaure,
> What about wanting to leave the trains running on the ceiling track without coming down the helix?


Ratz!!!! :laugh:

Here you go.










6 switches, 3 crossovers. Trains would come up one track then down the other.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

NIMT said:


> GRJ,
> In SCRAM are there any of the switches listed that are the one's you want to use?


I believe all the switches are listed in SCRAM. I'm pretty sure he put in the 3010/3011 switches, and the 022 is the standard switch for O31 track. I have four each of the 3010 and 3011 switches. Those can have the lantern housing removed for compact layouts, which is something I'd probably do. If you look at the SCRAM thread, I posted detailed pictures of those switches when he was adding them.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was corresponding with the guys at AnyRail, and they're talking about adding the 3010/3011 switches to their library. I had previously also suggested they offer an option in the O-scale library for cutting a piece of track to any length or perhaps a pseudo-flex track option. Maybe they'll add that as well. If they do those two things, I think I'll spring for the licensed version, it's really easy to use.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, AnyRail added the smaller O31 switches and the flex track. I pulled the trigger and bought a copy so I could really start working on the layout. I can see I'll need to track down some AnyRail users to figure some of this stuff out.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's where I am so far on the helix design, and some questions come up now that I'm actually trying to use AnyRail for a real layout. 

How does one draw something like the room outline where the ceiling track is going to go, or should I just wing that?

When I draw a surface, it seems to turn opaque, didn't see how to simply draw the layout outline.

How would I represent the grades so I can draw the whole helix? The empty ends at the helix are where it's going down. It looks like the inner track will have a 4% grade if I can keep the layers to 6" for each turn. The outer track will have a bit over 3% for the same spacing.


----------

