# Christmas American Flyer Layout



## Nuttin But Flyer

It has been nearly 30 years since I last created a train layout. This year I wish to use some of the items I have acquired in recent train shows and some of those items I have restored/repaired in order to run some American Flyers for my 1 year old grandson. My purpose here is not to impress with detailed, realistic scenery. All I wish to accomplish is a simple simultaneous two-train operation with sidings and a few operating accessories on a 4' X 8' table in our cramped living room. The realism and details will eventually be used in a permanent layout I hope to create someday in our future, soon-to-be-cleaned, basement train room. The goal is to impress my grandson as well as guests who have knowledge of my affinity to this hobby but have yet to see any production of my time spent restoring/repairing these vintage items. This will be my most recent opportunity to display the talents I have used keeping these items in good running condition. 

I am considering two ovals, one inside the other, with switches to join both. The switches will be set on 2-train operation and include sidings off the inside oval to store other engines and rolling stock.

Some of my classic, vintage AF accessories will be put on display as well as some of the items I recently acquired. I also plan using a few Plasticville pieces to create a small village as well as some illuminated, ceramic, Colonial Williamsburg buildings my wife has collected over the years. Certainly realism is not as important as operation. I have yet to determine the scale difference with the Williamsburg buildings against the Flyer trains. If these are off by a large degree, that idea may be scrapped to pave the way for more Plasticville.

A billboard steam whistle, talking station, my wife's favorite, the cow on the track and a mail pick-up action car are planned for this as well as some illuminated towers, street lamps and lighted buildings for nighttime viewing.

A framework of 1 X 4's will create a box structure and legs with 1 X 3's serving as cross-bracing. The top is nothing more than 1/2" flakeboard. I will break most everyone's rules and use a grass mat for the table covering since it is the easiest and quickest way to grow grass. I will be using standard AF track sections along with my limited supply of AF rubber roadbed, but believe I have enough to complete this layout. To be sure, I recently was succesful bidder on a lot of roadbed from eBay that provides enough for the outside oval.

I have a couple of AF girder bridges or trestle bridges I could slip under the tracks and a pair of paper mache tunnels I acquired with a set purchase I made a few months ago. These are the most detail I plan for the terrain. No foam mountains or riverbeds and valleys.

Other than impressing my grandson and guests, this will also serve as my opportunity to test all my other items, especially those that may need repair/servicing.

I plan to post progress reports and photos as well as videos when completed.
As always, your suggestions and comments are always welcome. Guidance will be needed -- as I mentioned it has been nearly 30 years since I've done this. With little time remaining before the big holiday, speed is of the essence to complete this project. 

Hopefully you will all enjoy this as I hope I will. I just keep the thought of my grandson's happy face in mind with his little "whoo-whoo" sound when he sees trains. That's really where my encouragement and enthusiasm comes from.


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## tjcruiser

I've got my popcorn ready! Can't wait to see the action!!!

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Hope you have lots on hand -- it might look more like the Keystone Kops or a 3 Stooges marathon.


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## Artieiii

Nuyk Nuyk Nuyk! Click for 3 stooges clip!
-Art


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## dc57

sounds great! Looking forward to seeing the layout and learning a few things.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

dc -- I'm hoping to learn a few things too !!! LOL


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## dc57

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> dc -- I'm hoping to learn a few things too !!! LOL


That's great! We should both enjoy this very much! :thumbsup:


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## lears2005

Well where are the pic


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Ummmm....I haven't started yet.

Yeah, I know....I gotta get moving. The whole Forum is waiting for progress photos.
I'll get right on it.


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## lears2005

And christmas is not to far away


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yeah, I know. Thank goodness it's going to be a simple layout.

I have a question for everyone....where or what can I use for 2 conductor and 4 conductor cable to make connections for the track and the switches. I had hoped to buy some unshielded jacketed cable at Home Depot or Lowes that is about 18-22 ga. Unfortunately, they did not have it or had it in 500' spools. I'd like to get like a 100' of each. Any online vendor or suggested retailer is fine with me. Radio Shack may have something suitable, but it would get rather expensive to buy 10' rolls of the stuff.

My thought was to use intercom or phone cable but those are rather small gauges. What I am looking for is manufactured by several wire manufacturers -- Carol, Belden, etc., I just don't know where to get it. HELP!!!


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## ChopperCharles

I just use speaker wire for my layout. It comes in several different gauges and it's relatively inexpensive. (And I have a ton of it already)

Charles.


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## ChopperCharles

For the four wire conductor, I went to a train-heavy hobby store. BUT, you can cut apart computer hard drive ribbon cable to get it, at least in shorter lengths.

Charles.


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## Carl

Looking forward to the pictures.


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## flyernut

ChopperCharles said:


> I just use speaker wire for my layout. It comes in several different gauges and it's relatively inexpensive. (And I have a ton of it already)
> 
> Charles.


That's what I use also...Different gauges and lengths.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I had thought about speaker wire, but wanted to avoid having to run four separate leads to each switch, two leads to each track terminal, various leads to each accessory, etc. hoping to run a multi-conductor cable to each instead. Intercom, phone or thermostat cable comes to mind as these are color-coded, multi-conductor wires with a simple PVC jacket. But around here they only seem to come in spools of 500' or 1000' and that gets rather expensive. I only need about 100' of each 2-conductor and 4-conductor.


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## flyernut

The only other alternate is PortLines, and I know they have it.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yes, I'm aware. Just takes a while before it would arrive and I'm hoping to be wiring things this weekend. My fault for waiting too long.

I may bite the bullet and buy a large spool. It certainly won't spoil and I'll eventually use it on my much larger permanent layout when the time comes for that to begin.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I had two suggested vendors online from this Forum but in another section....

Try DigiKey
http://www.digikey.com/
or Mouser
http://www.mouser.com/

Both have exactly what I'm looking for in reasonable quantity and cost.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

While performing one more search for multi-conductor unshielded cable, I ran across this website.......

http://www.wesbellwireandcable.com/fire-alarm-wire-cable.html

I decided their Fire Alarm Cable was good enough for my needs and the cost is very easy on the pocket. I ordered the 18ga. wire -- 100' of 2-conductor and 100' of 4-conductor.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

As can be seen by the above posting, I have the wire situation resolved and it should be arriving shortly. I also began making room in the cramped living room moving some furniture around and other pieces out of the room entirely. The master bedroom is packed pretty solid right now. But the wife doesn't mind as long as the grandson enjoys the Flyers for the first time.

I'll be taking off work tomorrow to begin construction of the boxed sub-frame. I am not a carpenter, so this could take some time. I do remember the basic rule though -- "measure twice...cut your finger once". Or is it the other way around??


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## flyernut

Back in the 50's, Dad made a layout for under the tree. It consisted of a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 plywood, cut in half for ease of moving,(4x4). He made a perimeter of 2x4's and then one in the center @ 24". Painted it green, and there's still one half of it in mom's garage...50+ years and still going strong.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Yeah, I know. Thank goodness it's going to be a simple layout.
> 
> I have a question for everyone....where or what can I use for 2 conductor and 4 conductor cable to make connections for the track and the switches. I had hoped to buy some unshielded jacketed cable at Home Depot or Lowes that is about 18-22 ga. Unfortunately, they did not have it or had it in 500' spools. I'd like to get like a 100' of each. Any online vendor or suggested retailer is fine with me. Radio Shack may have something suitable, but it would get rather expensive to buy 10' rolls of the stuff.
> 
> My thought was to use intercom or phone cable but those are rather small gauges. What I am looking for is manufactured by several wire manufacturers -- Carol, Belden, etc., I just don't know where to get it. HELP!!!


This is the wire I use for my switches, and for my son's HO switching yard. I bought it at Radio Shack the beginning of this year.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

In all fairness, I only went to Radio Shack's website searching for wire. I never entered a store. Perhaps they carry more in store inventory than shows on their website.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> In all fairness, I only went to Radio Shack's website searching for wire. I never entered a store. Perhaps they carry more in store inventory than shows on their website.


Oh yeh!! I didn't see this wire on their web site either. I walked in a bought several rolls of it right off the shelf.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I promised some progress this weekend and I am delivering....

The photos show my framework. The outer perimeter is made from 1 X 4 white pine as well as the mid-section perpendicular bracing. The diagonal reinforcing is 1 X 3 furring strips cut to 18" Lg. with 45 degree ends. Everything is screwed together using #8 X 1-1/4" Lg wood screws.

The legs are also 1 X 4's. The four outer corners are 2 - 1 X 4's screwed together in an "L" shape. There will also be 2 flat (not 2-piece "L's") mid-section legs of 1 X 4's each 36" long. The legs will all be screwed to the sub-frame and braced using the same 1 X 3 furring strips on 45 degree angles. I hope to have the legs installed tomorrow.

Once the legs are in place, it will be ready for the waferboard 4' X 8' top which will also be screwed in place leaving a 1" recess around the perimeter.

If all goes well, I should be laying track to configure my layout plans sometime tomorrow. :thumbsup:

As always, suggestions and comments are welcome.


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## tjcruiser

What are the secondary pieces lapped on the inner face of the perimeter boards? Are they doing anything for you?

With alll of those legs, are you planning on having some adjustable feet to compensate for an uneven floor?

TJ


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## dc57

looks like you're off to a great start. Looking forward to seeing your track layout. :thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

The secondary pieces are spacers to allow the angled bracing to be easily installed in the same plane as the legs. If I did it correctly, they should be of sufficient length to share the angled bracing with two legs.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I had considered adjustable legs, but am unable to find anything on Home Depot's or Lowe's websites. Then again, I may not be searching the correct terminology.

It will be setting on thick carpeting, so I doubt there will be any need to adjust the "level" of the layout. But if the need arises, I have a good supply of books and magazines.


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## tjcruiser

If needed, add a small block of solid wood into the the "knuckle" between your leg L halves ... glue w/ a screw or two. Then, drill a hole up from the bottom and insert a T-nut with an adjustable foot ...

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All

and something like this ...

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...gId=-1&keyword=adjustable+glide&storeId=10051

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Cool, thanks TJ.

That will work well for the 4 corner legs. But I have only flat 1 X 4's for the center section legs. Any thoughts about those?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I did not get as far as hoped, however the framework structure is done. The only thought is that maybe I should add a straight brace between the two center legs just to keep them from 'folding' in or out from each other. 

The other concern is that I should add some leveling features. To be honest, looking at it with the naked eye, it appears pretty darn level.  I will check it with my 4' level to be sure.

Note the photos. It had been questioned earlier what the blocks of wood were added for on the inside of the perimeter frame. As you can see, they allowed the diagonal bracing to be installed within the same plane as the legs. :thumbsup:

I think I will add that straight brace between the center legs to be sure they do not bend in or out from each other, then it will be ready for the top to be screwed down. 

Once that is done, it will be time to grow grass and lay some track.


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## dc57

Looking good Don :thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It is definitely sturdy. I tried to give it a wiggle checking for any slight twisting....it doesn't at all.


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## markjs

All this work for a Christmas layout??? As a kid I placed my 4 x 8 on two sawhorses! (Now, elephants can mate on the benchwork of my permanent layout and it won't collapse.) Seriously, it looks great and you have the beginnings of something more permanent.
Mark


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## tjcruiser

Looks nice, Don. I see the logic behind those "double" pieces on the top now ... bump-ins for the diagonal cross-braciing landing.

As for the middle/flat legs ... maybe a cross-beam between front & back to distribute any kick/bump load a bit? I think worthwhile, given excited little kids.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed

Only 7 more days left, you better get into overdrive!:thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I used to use horses too, but they are somewhat unsteady and the top had a tendancy to slide if leaned on. I expect to reuse this year after year until the permanent layout is built.

TJ -- Figured a picture would be worth a 1000 words -- now you can see how it worked. I also added that cross brace between the center legs for stiffness -- it's much better now.

Going to install the top momentarily and drop a roll of grass on her -- just like laying sod.

Ed -- Yea, gotta get rolling now !!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

The top is installed and the sod is being delivered outside as I post this. The next photo will show a new lawn just freshly mowed.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Apparently laying track is more involved than I remember. Trying to set-up a parallel oval track with switches between them will not fit on the 4' X 8' without cutting some standard sections of track. Even then, it seems rather close to the edges with the rubber roadbed in place.  See photos.....

Has anyone created a similar layout on a 4' X 8' table? I'd appreciate some input.

Assuming I need to cut some sections to fit, I may not be able to use the rubber roadbed as expected. 

Going to go sleep on this for now and try to tackle it tomorrow evening. As always comments and suggestions are welcome.


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## AFnewbie

Don,
I know what you mean by the tight layout. See photo in the 6th entry of my "Getting started with an old set" thread. It's very similar to yours (not many options) and I also used partial straight sections on the ends as in your picture. I believe those were the only partial sections. If I had to keep within a 4x8, I'd definitely add ~2" high side rails, at least near the switches, to protect against 3 ft falls to the floor from inevitable derailments. 1/4" plexiglass should be sufficient, and it would not overly detract from the look.
Paul M


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I am trying to create two separate, but connected, ovals in order to run two trains simultaneously. Whereas your layout, even though it's two ovals, shares the straight section between the outer-most switches.

I doubt I'll be able to accomplish my goal. I may have to settle for two ovals not connected with only sidings off the innner oval to store additional items.

There is very little on the internet showing 4 x 8 layouts for Flyer. There are plenty of possibilities for 5 X 9. If I feel like it, I guess I can always get another top that size.


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## AFnewbie

I misunderstood, and agree that you can't have 2 separate/connected ovals in 4' diameter. That's why my revised layout is 5'. Good luck with the decision process. BTW, I like your platform construction. Is it copyrighted?


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## flyernut

That's always been a problem with curved radius AF track.You needed that extra foot for 2 connecting ovals on the same board. Remember that well from my youth.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

No copyright -- go ahead a use it if you feel like it. Glad to see that folks are interested.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Apparently laying track is more involved than I remember. Trying to set-up a parallel oval track with switches between them will not fit on the 4' X 8' without cutting some standard sections of track. Even then, it seems rather close to the edges with the rubber roadbed in place.  See photos.....
> 
> Has anyone created a similar layout on a 4' X 8' table? I'd appreciate some input.
> 
> Assuming I need to cut some sections to fit, I may not be able to use the rubber roadbed as expected.
> 
> Going to go sleep on this for now and try to tackle it tomorrow evening. As always comments and suggestions are welcome.


You can always cut the roadbed to fit, and in the case of a too short or just a little too long piece, you can piece in the opening.


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## markjs

Try this: http://www.thortrains.net/sgauge/sglay7.html

or this: http://www.thortrains.net/sgauge/splan48a.html

Or this: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/layout/contest.htm

Mark


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## flyernut

markjs said:


> Try this: http://www.thortrains.net/sgauge/sglay7.html
> 
> Mark


I think he wants to stay with the AF track and rubber roadbed.Those track plans, which are very interesting, include GarGraves track, which is excellent.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Just quickly looked at both Home Depot and Lowes web sites -- neither shows any plywood or similar products in a 5' X 9' size.


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## markjs

If this uploads correctly you may want to try this. I did this as a kid with an AF track trip and insulating pins. It's great for an over and under double loop. Put in a couple pair of switches and I had 4 trains on a 4 x 8 platform. (This is from the RFG website; no copyright infringement intended.)


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## Nuttin But Flyer

markjs -- I'll try some of those tonight. But my intention is to have 2 separate ovals to run two trains. Only that they are connected by switches to move either train inside or outside.

I'm also trying to avoid anything complicated such as rises and trestles -- all flat terrain would be fine by me. Anything that gets these things up and running quickly.

4' X 8' certainly doesn't offer much space


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## Nuttin But Flyer

What's a 1202? Some type of relay?


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## markjs

Don,
Yeah, it's some kind of relay. (I really don't know much about electronics and other technical stuff.) Somewhere I have a Gilbert 2**** . . . 5 digit track trip (relay?) which enables 2 trains to run on one loop as the diagram shows. It also did other things as well, such as automatically throw a switch (turnout) so that an oncoming train would not derail. I once saw directions for this track trip on some AF website, but I don't have time now to go searching for it. 
Apparently RFG has its own relay--1202--which does the same thing.
NOW FOR THE SALES PITCH: The curved section of Gargraves turnouts is only 1/2 track length. Included in the package is another 1/2 section of curve which makes for a close parallel line. I have 3 pair of mint manual turnouts which I'm willing to sell for $50 a pair. Original cost $30/for 1 turnout. Let me know if you're interested. (This might solve your problem, but I can't guarantee it.)
Mark


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> markjs -- I'll try some of those tonight. But my intention is to have 2 separate ovals to run two trains. Only that they are connected by switches to move either train inside or outside.
> 
> I'm also trying to avoid anything complicated such as rises and trestles -- all flat terrain would be fine by me. Anything that gets these things up and running quickly.
> 
> 4' X 8' certainly doesn't offer much space


You'll also need at least one siding, possibly two, to hold one consist while the new consist enters the others loop.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wait a minute -- this is getting farther than I anticipated. I just want to create a two-train layout. If they need to be separate ovals, then so be it. I have a bunch of track sitting on the table and I'm going to go to town trying to fit something together.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

markjs -- I went to the 4' X 8' contest page you provided. Tried to recreate number 3 but that one cannot be drawn correctly. No way will it work as depicted. However, I'm working on a variation to it. But it appears more realistically that I will be unable to run two trains at the same time.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well guys, here is what I have come up with ....see photos.

I had hoped to have some sidings with enough length to store other trains, engines and rolling stock. I still might be able to add some short ones for that purpose. However, with this design, I can run two trains at the same time. :thumbsup: And, if need be, I can store a train on the middle oval end sections while running one on the outer oval and vice-versa. :thumbsup:

I still need to figure out the wiring for these ovals?? 

I'm not sure I have enough rubber roadbed for all of this. I may bite the bullet and nail it down -- a big no-no -- then add some loose ballast. No choice, I need to get moving on this quickly. But it will look more realistic, even if louder. 

There are also plenty of spaces between the oval ends to allow placement of some of my vintage Flyer equipment and Plasticville buildings.

I don't have the time to build a control panel -- a simple table will have to do that can be slipped under the layout when not in use. But when will it not be in use at this time of year?


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## flyernut

You should be able to run 2 loops without a problem. As a kid, I ran 2 loops on a 4x8 sheet of plywood with no problems. You can also wire the switches so you're not constantly throwing switches to avoid a derailment.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I might need some help with wiring this layout. But until my wire arrives, it's kind of academic right now.


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## dc57

Hey Don everything looks great! You've made a lot of progress. I'm curious about the wiring too so please let us know what you have to do.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Might go to Radio Shack to pick up a few feet of wire in order ot get started. I need to see trains run!!!!


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## markjs

It may be too late for Christmas, but Ebay has 4 conductor, multicolored wire up for auction. Item # 110991720110. Maybe you can use it in the future.
Mark.

P.S. I like your track plan. Because of the way AF switches are wired, you can park an additional train or two on the inner loops, leaving one inner loop for running.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I might need some help with wiring this layout. But until my wire arrives, it's kind of academic right now.


May I add, nice job!! Lot's of action, the g-kids will go nuts!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Just to give it a try, I cleaned the track with a green Scotchbrite then went over it with a little alcohol. Connected a terminal, some wires and put my 0-6-0 on it. It's running great around the outer oval.

I then got brave and had it run on the middle and inner ovals by manually switching the switches. It worked fine. All switches were set in "Regular Operation" while doing this.

So I got even more brave. I connected a second terminal to the inner oval to the other side of the dual transformer and left the outer oval connected as it was. I changed all 4switches to "2-Train Operation", then gave that a try. The handcar runs around the inside oval and the switcher runs on the outer oval without issues.

Here's a video of them running successfully.....

http://youtu.be/YuQY9py1IKY

Now comes the problem. I stopped the handcar in the inner oval and attempted to run the switcher from the outer oval to the middle oval by manually switching the 2 switches to get it onto the middle oval track. In order for it to run on the middle oval, I needed to also set the far side switches on the middle oval to be straight to allow it to stay on there and not change to the inner oval. As soon as I switched the first switch to straight, the handcar sitting on the inner oval began to run -- it was getting power from the same track as the outer oval.

I hope that I explained that so you would understand.

I thought that as long as the switches are set in "2-Train Operation", this would be prevented from happening?? If this occurs, I may not be able to run 2 trains simultaneously.

Anyone have some thoughts on this?


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## flyernut

If I may, maybe you should just eliminate all the switching and limit yourself to just 2 simple ovals, without switches, for your Christmas layout.Go for more realistic operation with a larger board for after Christmas running's.I'm sure with the excitement of Christmas, Santa, and presents, the g-kids won't care too much about switching. The tree, and trains running underneath it should knock their socks off.. Just a thought.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yes, that's a thought that has occurred to me too. I'm not pleased because this should work. But I do not have the know how at the moment to figure out how to wire this correctly. Unless someone comes through with some good instruction, I may have to change the plan.


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## markjs

My guess: First of all make sure that the switches really are set for 2 train operation. (I don't mean this as an insult--just check it.) Secondly, where do you have the power connected to the inner oval? If it's not between the 2 switches, you are going to get power to that circle. If the power is connected to the middle oval and inner oval between the switches, it seems to me that it should work. This is just my guess.
Mark

P.S. Also, I think I would power the outer loop near the back. That way you won't be getting power to the middle loop from two transformers if the switches in front are set to curve.

P.P.S. Forget the grandkids; THIS IS FOR YOU!!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I'm done trying to mess with that other design. I have created an oval with 3 dead-end sidings inside to store other engines, rolling stock, etc. I tried it with the switches set to "2-Train Operation" and it works fine. Each engine wil stay on the siding until the particular switch is set to that siding which will provide track power as I expect....simple and quick to set-up.

I must have had a brain-fa*t earlier -- I think in order for that other set-up to work, I would have needed to insulate those separated sections and power them through manual toggle switches. But that is past for now.

Getting the track set-up right now. Nearly have all the rubber roadbed installed. Once I am finished and remove the clutter, I'll post photos and/or a video.

This design also leaves more room for accessories and buildings.


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## flyernut

A simple, but functional layout for the tree is great. You'll still have action, sidings, other locos ready to go to work, and a bunch of buildings.Plus the little guy will be more prone to "run" the engine if he doesn't have to think too hard.. Can't wait for the pix and video.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

flyernut -- your wish is my command....

http://youtu.be/q9sYi-vTxok

I have run two Pacifics without issue -- the 290 and a 21085. I also ran my 0-6-0 switcher, a handcar and maintenance car without issues. But when I try to run my 0-8-0 342AC switcher, it has a tendancy to derail in a turn. I have replaced the curves in that area and realigned the track, but it still derails sometimes. If it runs slowly through there, it will make it. However the track still has some dirty spots that need extra elbow grease. When it runs slow, it will often stop and switch to neutral or shut-off entirely. I'm thinking the derailing may be a problem with the flanged drive wheels being worn. I will need to compare what I have with new ones to determine that. Or maybe the lack of a pilot set of wheels allows it to derail?? Nonetheless, I have enough other engines to run and keep the grandson's eyes wide open. :thumbsup:

Next I will wire the track terminals -- one at each end. Then run a bus wire under the layout for the accessories and lights to tap into. The switches will be next.

Tomorrow, I'll try to quickly fabricate a control station attached to the front of the layout to hold my transformer, control buttons and switch controls. It will not need to be very large -- 12'' X 15' maybe will be enough.

Of course everyone's input is always welcome...


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## markjs

Don,
Too bad your triple oval trackplan didn't work; it really looked great. For the life of me I can't figure out what was wrong. As long as you're satisfied, that is the imporant thing.
Mark


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## Nuttin But Flyer

mark -- I think it would have been necessary to insulate the loops using track insulators and then adding power to the specific tracks with toggle switches. I don't have the time to figure that out so I went with an easy plan. I'm not upset -- this will provide more space for my AF action accessories....


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## dc57

Looks great Don!

I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you hoped it would but it will still be fun to watch and operate. Thanks for the pics and video. I'm looking forward to seeing it with all the accessories on it.


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## flyernut

Nice!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Anyone have a simple method to add streets/roadway material? Nothing fancy or detailed, just something I can cut and place.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

What's up with this website?? Twice now I've posted a response to my thread and both times one of the words in the text was underlined. Each time it was a link to some commercial product. How did this happen???


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## Wicked_Silence

For streets and roads, I saw someplace on here where someone was using roofing shingles for roads. They Seemed to look good. I think it was in one of Shay's posts about a diorama layout.


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## flyernut

Get some black construction paper for roads, or heavy poster board...Same for sidewalks,etc. It comes in different colors and thickness.You should be able to find it at Staples,etc. I get it at the Dollar Store.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yea.....the Dollar $tore....why didn't I think of that?? 

Just finished designing and constructing (on the fly, out of scrap lumber) a control box to hold the tranny and controls. 

Nothing spectacular but it will hold everything.....


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## tjcruiser

Nice, Don.

I wonder why AF designed that tranny to have the power cord exit the casing on the front, rather than the rear? Seems odd ...

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yes, never gave it a thought until I had to route it around but can't do much about it now. I have other trannies. But this one gives 250W -- can't have enough power...


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Yea.....the Dollar $tore....why didn't I think of that??
> 
> Just finished designing and constructing (on the fly, out of scrap lumber) a control box to hold the tranny and controls.
> 
> Nothing spectacular but it will hold everything.....


Your "temporary" power station,lol, is a heckavu lot better than my permanent one!!


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## AFnewbie

Nice work, Don. 
Not everyone can combine fast AND neat. :thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Hi All -- Been a while since I checked in. That's because my nose is to the grindstone trying to finish this thing for Christmas.

I had a monkey wrench thrown in the plan by the vendor where I ordered the wire -- the UPS delivery is scheduled for Monday. A lot of good that would do. So I have been to nearby Radio Shacks twice now for spools of wire and am using whatever wire I can find in my stash. It's working out, but not to the plan. The real emphasis now is getting it done.

The little guy spent the night here last night and I ran a couple of engines around for him a few times. The delight was all I needed to keep going. Thankfully I had the billboard steam whistle wired. He got the chance to push that button. I had to pry his little finger off it.

I have spent about 5 hours or so now wiring lights and accessories and it was time for a break. So I took to the internet to report my progress. Sorry no photos right now. Too much clutter anyway. I have installed 2 wayside staion platforms, a Lionel Aircraft beacon (sorry AF guys -- it's nicer than the AF one), the bubbling water tower and the action water tower, a billboard diesel horn and a billboard steam whistle. I also tried to install the AF floodlight tower, but apparently there is a short in it somewhere. Unless I can figure it out, it will have to sit there unused -- just looking ominous on the layout.

flyernut came through again -- I went to the Dollar $tore and found exactly the right kind of material for roads/streets, etc. They have black-colored heavy poster sheets -- like cardboard ( 69 cents ea.) and the white foamboard ( a buck ea.). I hope I will have the time to lay it all out.

But right now I gotta get back to wiring. Will post more later. I promise photos and video.


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## flyernut

So very glad it's starting to come together!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here are a few photos show it uncluttered... 

As you can see, I've added a 593 signal tower, cow on the track, the Gulf oil depot, and some of those ceramic buildings the wife was collecting. The scale of those is rather remarkable for AF items. The only problem with them was they were lighted with 120V night lights inside. I have removed them and hope to add 18V lamps through the layout top if I have the time.

Trying now to arrange my buildings so I know where to lay asphalt and walks.

Still don't know what's wrong with the floodlight tower -- a wire near the top is detached. I can see that it is attached to the red girder structure that supports the tower. But I have no idea where it should be attached at the top. However, no matter how I attach the test leads, it won't light. Of course there are two wire clips under the platform to attach the wires, but it doesn't work with one wire detached at the top. Any help from someone who has one of these????


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## dc57

Wow! It looks great Don. I can't wait to see the roads. I hope you get all your wiring figured out. Thanks for sharing all your progress. :thumbsup:


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## lears2005

Looking great man


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## Big Ed

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> What's up with this website?? Twice now I've posted a response to my thread and both times one of the words in the text was underlined. Each time it was a link to some commercial product. How did this happen???



Strange things with the ads have been doing strange stuff on my computers also. Ever since the new people took over.
I was told to use ad blockers.



Layout is looking nice, :thumbsup: 

Will the train run in the opposite direction? 
So you can back into the sidings instead of backing out?


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I found out what it was....Some where along the way, a plug-in got installed into my Internet Explorer 9. I found it listed in the "add-ons" under the 'Tools' menu, 'Manage Add-Ons'. However, there was no way to uninstall it there. But I went to my Control Panel and opened the 'Programs and Features' icon -- there I found it listed with all other installed programs and I was able to uninstall it from there.

Really sucks how these little apps get added without your knowledge.


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## tjcruiser

Lookin' nice, Don! I really like that rubber roadbed that we've talked about.

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I added all the buildings I could fit -- and even more -- so it's pretty crowded.
Wired everything with interior lights. Also added and wired the AF Boulevard Street Lights. Only one minor issue shorted the system and I lost one small lamp/socket. No big deal, found the problem and fixed it, replaced the lamp/socket.

Laying asphalt right now. Certainly not realistic by any means. But the little guy will love it -- that's my goal


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It's just after 2AM, and I've finished laying roadways. I have way too much to do tomorrow OTHER than this layout. So for this year, it's done. 

I'll add photos and videos shortly.

Thanks for being an attentive audience.


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## flyernut

Nice job.. As a kid I had the 355 Baldwin set.I have 2 complete sets now...


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## dc57

Glad to hear that, Don. I'm looking forward to seeing the pics and videos. Your Grandson is going to love it! :thumbsup:


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Sorry for the delay guys. My home network/internet has been down for nearly two days. Still working on the problem. I just direct-connected my notebook to the modem to see if it is back working. Seems OK now. Gotta work on the network router now.

I have plenty of photos and a couple videos to post. As soon as I'm up and running without issues, I'll do so.

BTW -- The little guy loved the trains. He kept pulling his little arm up and down, shouting "Whoo-Whoo" -- Ya gotta love it. Wish I had a video of him doing that. But the trains will be up for a few weeks, there's still that chance.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and comments, and mostly the encouragement to keep moving forward.

Later.....


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

As promised.....

Videos here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX_2Z9YbQdc&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_Jx_4EEjg&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh40-cJixLU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJqbBs1J6VI&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_uCGAhpViw&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrgjDC817bI&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZoFeH9GCYY&feature=youtu.be


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## tjcruiser

Those AF whitewall wheels look great running 'round the layout. Some nice looking New England-style houses, too! Great fun!

TJ


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## Nuttin But Flyer

tj -- Those are the ceramic collector homes from Williamsburg VA that I mentioned sometime back in this thread. They have a very unique scale that nearly matches the S-Scale size. Sadly though, the accessories also sold with them do not as can be seen by the fences and carolers near the church. But for the grandson, this was all that was expected and....it delivered with an astounding"Whoo-Whoo" !!

I'll have to try to capture his arm going up and down shouting "Whoo-Whoo" in video and post it too.

It certainly made my Christmas special.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

These photos are for AFnewbie who requested the innerds of my Action Water Tower...

If these do not suffice, let me know exactly what I need to zoom in on and capture for your needs.


----------



## flyernut

Nice, Nice, Nice!!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Thanks flyernut. It was a quick and dirty set-up. But the reason for it was met and I am pleased. The realism and detail will be utilized when I create my permanent layout in the 'future' train room in the basement.

BTW -- Thanks for the tip about the Dollar $tore having colored sheets for roads, etc. Perfect place to buy those supplies. You get an "A+" for that one.


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Thanks flyernut. It was a quick and dirty set-up. But the reason for it was met and I am pleased. The realism and detail will be utilized when I create my permanent layout in the 'future' train room in the basement.
> 
> BTW -- Thanks for the tip about the Dollar $tore having colored sheets for roads, etc. Perfect place to buy those supplies. You get an "A+" for that one.


You're too kind...If I can suggest something to someone, and maybe help that person avoid a problem, or to just be helpful, I'll do it every time. Glad it worked out for!!


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## dc57

Happy New Year!

The layout looks great Don. I'm sure you and your grandson had a wonderful time running it. Thank you for sharing the pics and videos, I have a learned a lot from your step by step details.

Thanks again
Don


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

I believe many of you are aware that I repaired/cleaned my #342AC 0-8-0 switcher recently. I tried to run it on this layout but had problems. It would run OK except that it often derails in the corners. I was not running it fast and I checked the track for issues finding nothing wrong. Other trains run fine through the areas. My thought was that maybe the flanges of the drive wheels are worn and they are not capable of keeping it on the track as it turns the corners. There is no pilot assembly which would probably help it stay on track. Any thoughts??


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Here's a couple of vids of the grandson enjoying these vintage Flyers...

http://youtu.be/3myPD4RQgG8
http://youtu.be/BwGoK5kRfoM


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## tjcruiser

I'm not familiar with the AF loco, but any X-8-X might have problem in a tight turn. Do you think it's riding up through the turn at all? Are the middle drivers blind drivers (i.e., no flange)? That would be better, to prevent derailments in turns. If all drivers have flanges, they you're trying to move a straight line through a turn ... something's got to give.

Just talkin' out loud here ...

TJ


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I believe many of you are aware that I repaired/cleaned my #342AC 0-8-0 switcher recently. I tried to run it on this layout but had problems. It would run OK except that it often derails in the corners. I was not running it fast and I checked the track for issues finding nothing wrong. Other trains run fine through the areas. My thought was that maybe the flanges of the drive wheels are worn and they are not capable of keeping it on the track as it turns the corners. There is no pilot assembly which would probably help it stay on track. Any thoughts??


How is your wheel spacing? Maybe they didn't get it right when it was re-quartered? I'm sure you know about the "dime" trick?? The space between the wheel flanges should be the width of a dime.And I would think that the front drivers act as a pilot assembly. Does it de-rail in reverse?? If not, I would check the wheel spacing on the front drivers. Just a thought as I don't have one of these engines, and never messed around with one.. Good luck, I hope my post helps...


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Here's a couple of vids of the grandson enjoying these vintage Flyers...
> 
> http://youtu.be/3myPD4RQgG8
> http://youtu.be/BwGoK5kRfoM


That's what Christmas is about. I see that chocolate Lab is enjoying the show also,lol... I have a 95lb black lab stud.. Him and me are affectionally known as the "old men".


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## Nuttin But Flyer

That is Mocha, my newest girlfriend. She is about 50# of love and licks. I also have a black lab about 80# -- he is my close buddy and we are nearly inseparable.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> That is Mocha, my newest girlfriend. She is about 50# of love and licks. I also have a black lab about 80# -- he is my close buddy and we are nearly inseparable.


There's no better dog than a lab. I'm on my third one. 2 yellows and a black..


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## Nuttin But Flyer

If it were entirely up to me, I'd have a bunch more. Love dogs, gotta save 'em all.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> If it were entirely up to me, I'd have a bunch more. Love dogs, gotta save 'em all.


That's why I have 4. When you get cold at night, you just throw another dog on you.


----------



## AFnewbie

tjcruiser said:


> I'm not familiar with the AF loco, but any X-8-X might have problem in a tight turn. Do you think it's riding up through the turn at all?
> TJ


I'm not sure what TJ meant by "riding up", but maybe that's what I had. My 4-8-4 336 Northern was derailing until I noticed an improper bend in the arm connecting the loco and tender. At a turn, some wheels of either the loco or the tender (I forget which) were being lifted slightly.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

I put the 0-8-0 girl away when it was derailing. But since the layout is up, I can get her out again and look into the issues -- checking the items you have suggested. Besides, I hope to keep this layout up for a while -- until the wife decides enough is enough or leaves -- LOL. So I should have ample time to check many of my items for "runability".


----------



## flyernut

AFnewbie said:


> I'm not sure what TJ meant by "riding up", but maybe that's what I had. My 4-8-4 336 Northern was derailing until I noticed an improper bend in the arm connecting the loco and tender. At a turn, some wheels of either the loco or the tender (I forget which) were being lifted slightly.


As a kid, I had the same issue.. Dad's remedy was to eliminate the trailing truck wheels under the cab. It worked, but didn't really solve the issue itself...But it ran..


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## tjcruiser

Yeah, that's what I meant ... wheels lifing up a bit through the turn.

TJ


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## flyernut

tjcruiser said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant ... wheels lifing up a bit through the turn.
> 
> TJ


You got it baby!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well, here it is mid-way through June and the wife has had enough of the "Christmas Layout". Can't say that I blame her -- it was merely 6 months ago that I quickly found the materials and threw this layout together for my Grandson's enjoyment. He has been thrilled each and every time he visits, including Father's Day last Sunday. But I have to agree, the time has come to take it down. My only regret is missing a place to "test" items I acquire at shows or on eBay.

I really need to get that test roller set-up assembled. Flyernut was gracious to send the roller bearings and cap screws. But I just haven't found the time to get the material and actually do the construction.

I began by taking the engines and rolling stock and packing them in boxes for storage in the basement. Very sad feeling while doing it.

This will take a while but I figure in less than 6 months, I'll be building another.


----------



## AFnewbie

*also out of commission for a while*

Hi Nuttin-
I know how you feel. I had to take my set down after only a few months of usage because we're in process of moving to CT. My layout was far from elegant, but tearing it down was a lot less fun than putting it up. I won't have as much room in the new place, but I'm hoping to eventually get something set up again. I really appreciate all the help you and fellow AFers gave me and I hope to re-engage some months down the road.
Paul M (AFnewbie)


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## kix662003

I agree, it's makes me sad to put the train away to work on the layout. A crazy man would try to put the Christmas layout on hinges and fold it up onto the wall behind the drapes, and a real crazy man would hang it on cables and winch it up into a dropped ceiling! We'll have to find a team to send and help you rearrange the basement so you can set it up down there. Having money to buy engines and goodies without having a layout is probably worse than having a layout without any money. I can't say which is worse. I've forgotten what it's like to have money!


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## flyernut

What's money??


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## Nuttin But Flyer

How are you feeling these days F-Nut??


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> How are you feeling these days F-Nut??


Good enough.. It's only been 2 weeks since the second surgery, and 8 from the first. I'm still rehabbing the left so it's taking a little longer, and I'm IMPATIENT!!! I want to feel better LAST WEEK!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

You have go slowly, be gentle. It takes time. Like working on these old Flyers, things need to be handled carefully. It will eventually come around.


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## kix662003

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> You have go slowly, be gentle. It takes time. Like working on these old Flyers, things need to be handled carefully. It will eventually come around.


I'll second that!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well, it has been nearly a year since the first Christmas layout was created for my Grandson to enjoy. The time is nearing for this to occur again -- this year he is older and more in touch with Grandpop's trains.

The first layout is still up, but not in running condition, dirty track, junk all over, etc. Some quick cleanup and it could be running again in an evening. But I thought of changing the track plan somewhat. I'd also like to introduce him to some of my Flyer accessories. I have a couple of log loaders, a coal loader, cattle yard, oil drum loader and more, as well as the unloading action cars that go with them. While there will not be enough room for all these items, I'd like to include two or three of these to dazzle the little guy. My wife has also taken quite an interest in my model railroading by becoming a collector of Plasticville structures and has accumulated many of them. So I had thought of creating a farm scene with her Plasticville and an industrial yard area for my automated accessories on one layout. A Plasticville passenger station should also be used for one of my streamliners.

The framework is still intact -- for those who are unaware, the table top is 4' X 8'. There is no room to expand just yet. So any ideas or suggestions are welcome. I hope to start creating around Thanksgiving. Send your thoughts soon to be considered.

This is for Mixy -- I plan to use SCARM to create the plan.


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Well, it has been nearly a year since the first Christmas layout was created for my Grandson to enjoy. The time is nearing for this to occur again -- this year he is older and more in touch with Grandpop's trains.
> 
> The first layout is still up, but not in running condition, dirty track, junk all over, etc. Some quick cleanup and it could be running again in an evening. But I thought of changing the track plan somewhat. I'd also like to introduce him to some of my Flyer accessories. I have a couple of log loaders, a coal loader, cattle yard, oil drum loader and more, as well as the unloading action cars that go with them. While there will not be enough room for all these items, I'd like to include two or three of these to dazzle the little guy. My wife has also taken quite an interest in my model railroading by becoming a collector of Plasticville structures and has accumulated many of them. So I had thought of creating a farm scene with her Plasticville and an industrial yard area for my automated accessories on one layout. A Plasticville passenger station should also be used for one of my streamliners.
> 
> The framework is still intact -- for those who are unaware, the table top is 4' X 8'. There is no room to expand just yet. So any ideas or suggestions are welcome. I hope to start creating around Thanksgiving. Send your thoughts soon to be considered.
> 
> This is for Mixy -- I plan to use SCARM to create the plan.


As we both know, 4X8 for a flyer just doesn't work. Can you go to 6X8? The only thing I can add is to have quite a few turn-outs, if you can't expand.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Yeah I know. It's in our livingroom which is already crowded. If not for the grandson's interest, I doubt the wife would allow me to create a layout at all. I'm evisioning the usual oval with six curve sections at each end, one passing siding and a couple of turnouts for dead ends in the industrial area. I know that leaves little for much else.


----------



## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Yeah I know. It's in our livingroom which is already crowded. If not for the grandson's interest, I doubt the wife would allow me to create a layout at all. I'm evisioning the usual oval with six curve sections at each end, one passing siding and a couple of turnouts for dead ends in the industrial area. I know that leaves little for much else.


Heck, that's enough for the little guy to keep busy, even the big guy!!That's the point I was trying to make; create sidings for your work areas and the operating accessories.. Looks like you have a great plan....


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Just so I have room to create a farm scene with lots of cows....he loves cows. Went to the Allentown Fair back in August and took him through the petting zoo where he met face-to-face with numerous cows. Now everytime we drive past any kind of fencing, he says "moo-moo cows" and looks out the windows for them.


----------



## Big Ed

Where the red is, could you build out an L here?
It would give you room to add stuff?

Over by the wall where the white is, could you add (running down the wall) a strip say one or two feet wide?
You can add a switch and put a siding to park a train over there, two foot wide maybe you could add two sidings to it so you park two trains over there?

Just a few of my thoughts while looking at your pictures.


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## flyernut

I have a large "L" for a layout Ed. Just like you say, a siding area for more trains. I'll get some pics up tomorrow showing the sidings.


----------



## Big Ed

flyernut said:


> I have a large "L" for a layout Ed. Just like you say, a siding area for more trains. I'll get some pics up tomorrow showing the sidings.


Sorry, I thought that table was nuttin's. 

I got to stop speed reading/looking.


----------



## flyernut

big ed said:


> Sorry, I thought that table was nuttin's.
> 
> I got to stop speed reading/looking.


Now you got me confused,lol..I was just saying that my layout is also a l..


----------



## Big Ed

OK, I thought I got the wrong picture somehow. 

He could do an L, and still have room to work.

Get rid of some off the furniture and he would have more room.


----------



## flyernut

big ed said:


> OK, I thought I got the wrong picture somehow.
> 
> He could do an L, and still have room to work.
> 
> Get rid of some off the furniture and he would have more room.


Also get rid of the wife's clothes and stuff... My wife says no to the Christmas layout in the living room. She says you have half the basement, that's enough! Besides, she can't watch tv while the trains are running if they were in there. I had a g scale set up years ago under the tree with sounds, and she couldn't take that,lol And, that's why I have about 4-5 different scents of smoke fluid. Her computers are downstairs, and the original smoke fluid bothers her, so I have some of her favorites; pumpkin spice, cinnamon roll, coffee, and black licorice.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Ed the thought is nice, but the wife will no doubt over rule your efforts. But if I can get the grandson involved......hmmmmmmm......


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

I am going to add an extra foot onto the table by overhanging a box structure on the back side and topping it with a one foot wide waferboard top, just like the original. As long as it is in the interest of our grandson, the wife doesn't seem to mind the expansion.
This will give me 5' X 8' which should prove much better for layout design.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

For those who have been chomping at the bit for progress here -- forget it, I've done nothing so far. There has been no time. But I do have a proposed track plan thanks to SCARM software. And it will run two trains simultaneously. Here is a view...












Without exact dimensions, there is no way of knowing if the accessoreis shown will fit where I have them placed. But in due time, the layout substructure will be placed and the top attached, then we will see. A Christmas deadline may be hard to make though.....


----------



## sjm9911

New year train it is then! Positive thinking, it's still better then my g scale fiasco! ( I'm hoping for a new years test run.


----------



## flyernut

Nice, I like!


----------



## Aflyer

NBF,
Wow, you have come a long way from just an inner and outer loop, it looks great. Now let's got out the hammer and saw, you can have a loop of track down in no time.
I admit I didn't read every page full of posts, but if it wasn't covered the green indoor outdoor carpet from Lowes or Home depot is what our club uses on the modules, it goes down quickly and gets you ready for tack laying.
Aflyer


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Last year's layout had the Life-Like grass paper on it. Over time, the sun beaming through the windows bleached it. I should have taken photos of the difference between where there was grass and where the track and houses once sat on it. But alas, I threw it away before I thought of that. Not sure what I'll use this year for grass and dirt -- I want something that can quickly be applied. I still have a couple more rolls of that stuff in storage, but hesitate using it this time.

If you note the plan, I'm not going in the direction of last year's layout with a lot of buildings, streets and a town-like setting. This will be more rural with a farm and a small industrial area for some of my operating accessoires and dumping cars. Very few buildings this time. I want the little guy to be able to push some buttons and have fun watching things work. I have accumulated more rubber roadbed and hope to have enough to make track laying very quick and easy. I have an old Flyer tunnel set that came with one of my lot purchases some time back. And I have some bridges to use over fake riverbeds of blue paper or foil. Those items will take little time to erect.

Any suggestions for fast installations are greatly appreciated as well are suggestions to enhance the layout theme. I have quite a few working Flyer accessories which can be added provided the room is there.

If you have not read the latest postings or reviewed the plan, the new layout will be
5-1/2'W X 8'L. This adds a lot more room to do what I have shown.

Thanks in advance for the ideas and comments.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

Well, well -- the weather forecast may have determined what I'll be doing this weekend. With significant snow on the way, I won't be able to attend the Train Shows I had planned, so I believe I'll get started adding the extension of benchwork to the existing layout from last year and fasten the tabletop. If all goes well, I hope to be laying track before the weekend is over. Hope the wife won't mind my moving the furniture out of the living room again?


----------



## flyernut

Don, Ive used that grass mat in the past. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww!!. What I did this time was to use a nice green latex paint I had mixed up at Loews. It actually took 2 tries to get the color right, bit I'm a happy camper... I hear you about the snow. I live right up on Lake Ontario, and we got 12 inches on Weds night in a matter of a couple of hours. My buddy west and south of me got 26", right off of Lake Erie. I guess that's why we have 2 4-wheel drive trucks sitting in the driveway. I was going to go to a train show also Sat, but won't be going now either.


----------



## kix662003

Wow! You squeezed a lot into 5.5x8 feet. My AF layout is 6x8 and I didn't use the space nearly as well as you have. I still use the eval version of AnyRail and hit the piece limit fairly quickly. I went with flyernut's suggestion and used latex paint to prevent possible damage from humidity or worse. That's going to be a fine layout, Christmas and not! Flat layouts can be stored in the basement, too. Let me know if you need some switches.


----------



## sjm9911

Allright, I 'm dieing to know what cow on track is? I only skimmed the thread, if i missed it I apologize!


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer

The Cow on the Track is an accessory that Flyer developed to simulate a cow that has wandered on the track. As you can see in the photos from Bob Graves' online Gilbert Gallery website, the cow pivots to appear to be on the track in the way of an on-coming train. There are insulating pins used in the sections around the cow on track accessory to isolate it from the rest of the layout. When the red button is pushed, the cow rotates out to be in the way of the train. This also drops the voltage to a minimum in the isolated track section which stops the train but does not incur a cycling of the reverse unit. When the green button is pushed the cow rotates back out of the way and the power is restored to the track and the train rolls along its merry way. My grandson loves this thing so much so that he screams at the train heading toward a collision with the cow but stops just in the nick of time. The last photo shows the brown cow variation which must be rare. I've seen this accessory sell for $40 up to $100 or even more. It's quite a popular accessory. The only weak part about it is the plastic gear in the base that rotates the cow -- care must be exercised with it.


----------



## sjm9911

That's pretty cool! I'll have to get one! Shouldn't look bad on my O scale track. I've got a few flyer accessories on my layout. But, I don't have a cow. I'll have to find a way to fully automate it of course. Then I'll procrastinate putting it in. Thanks for the info and pictures!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

UPDATE -- Sorry for the delay and lack of postings, my wife decided to put the trains on hold while we entertain guests over the Holidays. Since the layout was to be erected in our living room, I couldn't disagree with that suggestion. However, the Holidays have passed, the guests are gone, it's time to prepare the space for another layout. Even though the title of this posting may be slightly off-target, the subject is still running some of my vintage Flyers for me and the grandson to enjoy. The benchwork goes up today.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> UPDATE -- Sorry for the delay and lack of postings, my wife decided to put the trains on hold while we entertain guests over the Holidays. Since the layout was to be erected in our living room, I couldn't disagree with that suggestion. However, the Holidays have passed, the guests are gone, it's time to prepare the space for another layout. Even though the title of this posting may be slightly off-target, the subject is still running some of my vintage Flyers for me and the grandson to enjoy. The benchwork goes up today.


Need help?.. I'm bored to death....I'm tired of blowing snow off the driveway. Mother Nature was kind though, we only got 28 inches the last 48 hours.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Ahhh, yes, the excitement of living in NY State....I got about 10 inches and found that to be more than enough. I guess it could have been worse. But as it stands now, I'm ready for the warm weather and NO MORE SNOW !!! 4 storms already and winter just got started.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Finally...got some progress to report/show. I've reused the benchwork from last year's layout and cantilevered another 18" on the rear. I still need to add the tabletops but that should happen tomorrow without incident, I hope. If all goes well, I should be fitting track some time later tomorrow. The little guy is visiting and has been watching my progress the entire time, asking "what you doing?" and after telling him, asking "why?" a whole lot. Tomorrow we are going to try to attend a Train Show in NJ during the morning, early afternoon. Then it will be back to work on the RR.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Heavy rain, raw damp temperatures, what a great day to work on the layout....hopefully get something realistic accomplished today.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I have fitted the track in my plan...or as close to it as I could. I also used nearly all the rubber roadbed in my possession to cover each section. Obviously some pieces will not be covered -- those in the tunnels and on/over bridges. I had to find some of my very dirty stash tracks to complete the track fitting. So I will be doing a lot of cleaning and checking to be sure there are good connections and no shorts. Having trains running may take longer than expected -- I'm really itching to see some smoke.....


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## flyernut

Looks very nice!!!!!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Thanks, but the track is in serious need of inspection...so are the switches. It might be a while before we see trains smoking their way around. Evenings this week are free to do that type of work. There is no deadline like last year, so it doesn't matter when I get done. My grandson is the only person that matters for this project...well, me too.


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## flyernut

If you need help with the switches, let me know. I've rebuilt about a dozen of them.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I'll keep you in mind. However, that is something I'd like to learn myself too.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I'll keep you in mind. However, that is something I'd like to learn myself too.


I surely understand, but if you come across something that doesn't seem right, or just want some advice, give a holler.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Here's one for ya...some of my track when fitted to a switch, will not pull away without sliding the rail out of the switch body. It takes several feats of strength and a few tools to keep the rail in place on the switch base in order to pull the track section off. I believe the rails have a slight indentation where the copper slat is supposed to hold them so that they would not slide. How can I tighten those copper slats to securely hold the rails to the base without damaging the base?


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Here's one for ya...some of my track when fitted to a switch, will not pull away without sliding the rail out of the switch body. It takes several feats of strength and a few tools to keep the rail in place on the switch base in order to pull the track section off. I believe the rails have a slight indentation where the copper slat is supposed to hold them so that they would not slide. How can I tighten those copper slats to securely hold the rails to the base without damaging the base?


Pull the sheet metal bottoms off. Locate the tabs you want to "tighten" up. I put a small socket under the tab I want to tighten, and press down with a screwdriver on the tab from above, tightening it on the rail.You can not tighten that tab by simply pressing down on it if you don't have something under the tab, bucking it up.The rails have small cut-up like things on them, and they engage small tab-like things on the switch face,( you can see them plainly). Once you get the rail tabs tightened up, they shouldn't pull past those little tabs. Someone could have replaced the rails with standard flyer track.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

When fitting the track, I simply pulled the first carton of junk track and switches I had in storage purchased from previous train shows and/or eBay. So when it came time to actually nail down the track/switches, I had planned to replace any of those that were not usable with much nicer pieces.

Last night I began to check the track by operating the switches first -- all worked perfectly but one was sticking ever so slightly when switching to curve. A bit of cleaning may be in order for that one. But in the worse case I have others to replace it. The track condition was more involved as none had been touched since I bought it. Dirt, rust, pitting...it was in dire need of attention. I began by using a Dremel with a Scotchbrite pad. This worked but was very tedious and not helping my back by standing over the layout. I finally had enough and took several sections to a chair with a Scotchbrite pad and using some firm elbow grease, replaced the dirt, rust and grime with shiny rails using about 8-10 minutes on each section. I also took the Dremel to the track pins to be sure they were clean and shiny for good contact. The only issue that has not yet been solved is how to clean the inside tubular rail of the mating piece. Rolling up a piece of fine sandpaper to reach inside was nearly impossible. A fine wire brush, like a very small diameter bottle brush, would be perfect, if I had one. Anyone have ideas how to get inside that rail to be sure I get good contact between sections?

If all goes well, I figure to be able to do some test runs by this weekend. Now the problem is which of my engines do I want to use first...so many choices between my older items v. the items I recently acquired.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> When fitting the track, I simply pulled the first carton of junk track and switches I had in storage purchased from previous train shows and/or eBay. So when it came time to actually nail down the track/switches, I had planned to replace any of those that were not usable with much nicer pieces.
> 
> Last night I began to check the track by operating the switches first -- all worked perfectly but one was sticking ever so slightly when switching to curve. A bit of cleaning may be in order for that one. But in the worse case I have others to replace it. The track condition was more involved as none had been touched since I bought it. Dirt, rust, pitting...it was in dire need of attention. I began by using a Dremel with a Scotchbrite pad. This worked but was very tedious and not helping my back by standing over the layout. I finally had enough and took several sections to a chair with a Scotchbrite pad and using some firm elbow grease, replaced the dirt, rust and grime with shiny rails using about 8-10 minutes on each section. I also took the Dremel to the track pins to be sure they were clean and shiny for good contact. The only issue that has not yet been solved is how to clean the inside tubular rail of the mating piece. Rolling up a piece of fine sandpaper to reach inside was nearly impossible. A fine wire brush, like a very small diameter bottle brush, would be perfect, if I had one. Anyone have ideas how to get inside that rail to be sure I get good contact between sections?
> 
> If all goes well, I figure to be able to do some test runs by this weekend. Now the problem is which of my engines do I want to use first...so many choices between my older items v. the items I recently acquired.


The only thing I can suggest is to pick up a miniature screwdriver, or a dental pick, and use them in the hole. Also, per the flyer operating book, bend the pins ever so slightly towards the outside... You already knew that,lol.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Yea, I knew that, did it too. I might have a precision drill bit that might just fit the hole. Maybe run it in and out like a reamer?? A very small diameter, long wire brush with flexible wire handle would be perfect. Perhaps while at the World's Greatest Hobby Show in Philly this Sunday, I'll look for one...as well as more Flyer items.


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Yea, I knew that, did it too. I might have a precision drill bit that might just fit the hole. Maybe run it in and out like a reamer?? A very small diameter, long wire brush with flexible wire handle would be perfect. Perhaps while at the World's Greatest Hobby Show in Philly this Sunday, I'll look for one...as well as more Flyer items.


While you're there, get a set of dental picks.. They work great, and are useful for cleaning your firearms, if you have any.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I do have a set already, but thanks for the suggestion.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Considering I'm going to be snowed-in tonight, what a good reason to work on the layout fitting and cleaning track for fastening down. Just gotta get home from work safe first....


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## Nuttin But Flyer

It has been a while since beginnning this layout. Just want to give an update. The outer loop is tacked in place and powered. Already ran a train around and works great. The inner loop is where the activity is for now. The plan is changing slightly to accomodate some of my action accessories where they will fit and operate best. Once I have those positioned, I'll post photos and an updated plan. But progress is happening, albeit very slow. Your patience will be rewarded very soon.


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## minitrucker

somewhere I read about welding tip cleaners to clean the tube part of track hope this helps


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## Nuttin But Flyer

An excellent idea, I'll look into it - thanks.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Wow, has it been this long since I last posted something...I'll have to get back to work on this. The outer loop is fastened down, the inner loop configuration is pretty much done with all the action accessories I could fit in various logical places. Time to fasten the inner loop down and add power to it. Then power the switches. Gotta clean off the top of the layout of junk so I can get some photos and even a video or two showing some trains running. Maybe if I stay off eBay I could get more done....


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## flyernut

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> Wow, has it been this long since I last posted something...I'll have to get back to work on this. The outer loop is fastened down, the inner loop configuration is pretty much done with all the action accessories I could fit in various logical places. Time to fasten the inner loop down and add power to it. Then power the switches. Gotta clean off the top of the layout of junk so I can get some photos and even a video or two showing some trains running. Maybe if I stay off eBay I could get more done....


Hadn't heard from you in awhile, got worried.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Well, this project is anything but a "Christmas" layout, unless I consider Chirstmas 2014 but work continues. The track is all fastened down and most accessories are in position. Wiring has taken a lot longer than expected. And with so many other issues in life tugging at me as well as 6-day workweeks, it makes finiding the time difficult. But there has been progress, albeit not much. There are running trains -- I'll have to post a few shots to whet your appetites.


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## flyernut

You have to retire!!!!! Then you'll have no time to do things,lol...


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