# Bucket List Train Board



## Fighterpilot

Something I've wanted to do since the 70's when I had an HO scale board for my son is build a nice O scale train layout. I've been into radio control aircraft for about the last 30 years and with the large scale stuff that I was building and flying, the traveling to various contest and events, I just got burned out. ... so, here is my first attempt at model trains in about 40 years.

Started with the table in my garage. Maximum size I could go and still fit my other toys was 6.5 x 12. Here are a few pictures of my beginnings.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Good start.


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## swiggy

looking good - keep the pics coming. I don't fly large scale, but I do have a T-28 parkzone that I have been flying for 2 years now - planes, trains, and rc cars.


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## HOMODELTRAINZ2009

Very Nice! Cant wait to see more progress


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## tjcruiser

I like the folded figure-8 type of layout. I have a somewhat similar config on my HO setup.

Refresh my memory ... are you going to be running conventional control, or TMCC?

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

*More pictures*

I'll be using conventional right now. I've got two Williams diesel locomotives (Sante Fe Dash 9 and the Western Maryland powered and dummy diesels, Polar Express Berkshire) My plan, if I really get into this, is to go Legacy in the future. I've got the ZW transformer, I'd just have to purchase the Legacy control system and a couple of Legacy locomotives.
Here are some addidional pictures as the layout is moving right along. This is fun but it takes a lot of planning and time to do it right.
At this point, I'm waiting on my second bridge and started filling between the tracks, stuffing newspaper and covering with plaster impregnated cloth. Works well and is very easy. Made my mountain using window screen per Sean's method in his tutorial. Works great.
Second bridge came in this week, so I finished my track layout. Now onto scenery and mountain building.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You do realize that you can run TMCC with the Legacy system as well, right? You can get some pretty good deals at times on TMCC locomotives on eBay.


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## tooter

That's beautifully flowing trackwork, pilot. :thumbsup:
Do post more on your progress. And make some videos of your running trains when the elevations are completed.

Yeah, tj... that's what I thought the minute I saw pilot's layout. I'm really partial to that really clever "folded eight" design because the trains travel in so many different directions.

Greg


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## Fighterpilot

*More Pictures*

Gunner, I really don't know much about the new operating systems; but. I plan to learn before I purchase anymore locomotives. I bought the Polar Express train set and added the diner and baggage cars, so it makes a very nice entry level train. I also added the train sounds tender to the set. I then added a couple of Williams diesels, which run very smoothly and pull well just using the transformer for control. I wanted something that looked nice and didn't cost me an arm and a leg getting started in this.

I got my twin bridges installed and did a little scenery work on the corner and some fill under the rising grades. The wall is pink foam etched with a pencil to look like stone blocks. They will be painted gray.

I also did some experimenting with the pink foam making tunnel portals and retaining walls. I'll post some pictures of that tomorrow. 

What I need now is a skyhook to suspend myself from the ceiling. It's getting difficult to reach into the center of the board to complete the filling beneath all my grades. I'm 6'4" and weigh about 220 so I don't want to go crawling around in the middle of my table, although that may be what I end up having to do. Ain't easy getting up there much less getting down!!hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn

When you get ready to consider command/control, drop me a line. 

I'm planning on dropdown sections to make the maximum reach 30" on my table, I know that reaching farther will be an issue.


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## Big Ed

Looking great.:thumbsup:

A sky hook?:laugh:

You know that your supposed to make the table strong enough to dance on it?

They do sell that extension helper steps. For reaching over the layout to work on it. They aren't cheap.
I don't know what they call it and can't find a picture.hwell:


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## gunrunnerjohn

How about a simple step stool?


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## Big Ed

Here it is Micro Mark selling it for $239.











And I think they still have a shipping special till June check this thread,

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7500


Better then flying over the layout like superman on a sky hook.:laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn

I like the comment about "*Folds to a compact 23x31x56 for easy storage*"! Compact? What's compact about that!


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## Fighterpilot

That's a great looking device for working over the table; but, I have absolutely no room to store one more "compact" thing. The step stool works as long as my left arm holds out and it's rough working with one hand. If I try working with both, I fall on my face. Getting on and off the table risk both the layout that I've completed and life & limb. Table is strong enough and I've gotten on it before and will if I have to again.
I worked with the pink foam insulation board again to make my retaining wall and tunnel portals. You can etch the stuff with a good staight edge and a sharp pencil.


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## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> What I need now is a skyhook to suspend myself from the ceiling. It's getting difficult to reach into the center of the board to complete the filling beneath all my grades.


FP,

You need one of these! 

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=23722&postcount=38

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

That will do it!  Now, if you could float that million dollar loan that we spoke about, I'll order one tomorrow.


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## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> That will do it!  Now, if you could float that million dollar loan that we spoke about, I'll order one tomorrow.



Please explain how you picked the title to this thread.
What does it mean?

*Bucket List Train Board


*


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## gunrunnerjohn

Don't you know what a Bucket List is?


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## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Don't you know what a Bucket List is?


It means he is going to kick the bucket soon?


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## tjcruiser

Bucket List = List of things to do before one "kicks the bucket"

(Popularized in movie with Jack Nicholson.)


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## Fighterpilot

Well, I don't plan on kicking the bucket soon; however, one never knows. We all have an expiration date!
This is just one of those things I've always envied and wanted to try doing myself. It's been a lot of fun and yes, a lot of work; but, that's what retirement is all about.....working at the things you enjoy.
I filled beneath the highest part of my above grade tracks today using window screen and plaster impreganated cloth to fill. Came out pretty nice. I'll post some pictures of the progression when I download them from the camera tomorrow.
Later,
Bill

Got a chance to take some pictures and download them today. Here are the results. First two pictures are before and after shots.


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## Fighterpilot

I finished the side of my riser heading into the twin bridges. I also included a couple of pictures of the same area, before and after completing some landscaping. I know to most of you guys this is old hat; but, it's new to me and I'm enjoying it. Hope you enjoy the pictures half as much as I am putting this all together.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Looking great! I like the "Lionel" on the small black overpass bridge, too.

Keep up the nice work,

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

I got all my tunnel portals glued in place and decided to install a viewing veranda on top of the tunnel opening. Mountain will rise behind veranda area and slope into tracks. That's the next project.
Later


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## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> ...decided to install a viewing veranda ...


Like it!!! :thumbsup:


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## Fighterpilot

Purchased the Model Rectifiers Corp diesel sounds unit. It come with a speaker and features diesel rev up sounds, air line sound, brake sounds, etc.
Easiest place to install one is in a dummy diesel, so I was anxious and installed it last night. Made is China, deader than a burned out lightbulb when I powered it up. It was supposed to default to diesel sound reving higher with the addition of power from the transformer. It made no noise at all. I also purchased the small transmitter which allows the unit to be programed in order to access additional sounds... Press the #6 key as you apply power and you will here the word " Program" come from the little speaker...... ah.. the sound of silence! Break out the tester and check voltage to the device.. power there; so, it's on the phone, explain the problem, and get authorization to ship it back for replacement. Got to hand it to Model Rectifier Corp., it was a no hassle return; but, this is the 2nd electronic device I've had come from China and it simply did not work, and it's a lot of trouble to remove the device from the dummy diesel, box it back up, and pay shipping cost to return the item. Now when I get the new one, I'm going to have to install it, which takes time and means that I have to do something again that I've already done once. Ain't a happy camper.


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## tjcruiser

Bummer. Not good. Sorry to hear it. :thumbsdown:


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## Fighterpilot

I got the mountain top completed this past week as well as the area over the tunnel portals in the center of the board. Coming along but man I'm getting tired of making hill sides!
Will post a couple of pictures this afternoon, heading to the eye doctor for a check up now. 
Later!


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## Fighterpilot

Here are a couple of pictures with the finished area over the tunnel portals. There is only about 8 more ft. of risers that I have to fill beneath. At last!!


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Nice! I really like the one with the veranda and the curious onlooker guys!

How about adding a bit more "soot" to the top of the entrance face?

Cheers,

TJ


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## Gansett

Really nice!


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## gc53dfgc

It looks very nice fighter. I am suprised that you could fit that much O scale track and items into such a small layout. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:


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## raleets

FP,
Nice work! I particularly like the attention you've paid to small details. :thumbsup: My kind of layout!! 
Bob


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## Fighterpilot

Thanks guys, it's always nice to get compliments by people that have been there and done that. As soon as I finish with the balance of the fill I have to do beneath my grade risers, I'll start on my town and a road. Plans for a small lake as well.
The layout is only 61/2' x 12' but I have room to make it an L shape if I get rid of one or two of my other toys. Have a Polaris Ranger in the shop which takes up a lot of room. I've got to decide if I'm going to be getting on another hunting lease or not before I'm willing to sell that. Then I'll have a lot more room (and some more money) to invest in the train layout. We'll just have to wait and see.


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## Fighterpilot

This section of the board is essentially complete. I've gotten the electric lines run on the poles and I may try to fit a country passenger station between where my steamer is and where the Sante Fe Dash 9 is located. It's about the only place on the layout that it will go. I've got one coming in from Wholesaletrains.com When it gets here I'll stick it in and shoot a couple of pictures and ask for you guy's opinion.
Later


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looking good, and that's a busy area there.


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## Fighterpilot

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Looking good, and that's a busy area there.


I know what you mean. I'll definitely have to find another job site for my work crew. Probably put them to work on some track bed back in the industrial area.

By the way, guys, I got a good tip from Mike at his train shop. Mount Everest Pigeon Grit makes great track ballast. It's available at any good feed store. He told me it will look great along side of the fasttrack track bed and that it's a lot cheaper than buying it from the hobby shop in those little bags.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

What did you use for the electrical lines on the poles? Looks great ... good tension.

(There's a stretch-string product I've seen at train shows, but I've never tried it myself.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## gc53dfgc

Fighterpilot said:


> I know what you mean. I'll definitely have to find another job site for my work crew. Probably put them to work on some track bed back in the industrial area.
> 
> By the way, guys, I got a good tip from Mike at his train shop. Mount Everest Pigeon Grit makes great track ballast. It's available at any good feed store. He told me it will look great along side of the fasttrack track bed and that it's a lot cheaper than buying it from the hobby shop in those little bags.


I noticed you broke the whistle off of your Polar Express engine. My sisters managed to brake the one off of mine once I went to bed or it broke when getting it out of the box not sure which. I wish Lionel would sell a replacement whistle instead of making me have to go buy a new set which I still have to do. Layout is looking very nice so far, keep up the amazing work.:thumbsup:


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## Fighterpilot

The electrical lines are made from elastic thread purchased from Hancock Fabrics. I've used it for antenae wires on my 1/4 scale aircraft. It stretches readily and will not yank your poles out of the ground if you happen to hit it when reaching over the board. I can literally pull it to the surface of the board without any damage, it stretches that much.


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## gunrunnerjohn

You're going to buy a new set for a whistle?


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Thanks. The elastic line stuff I was talking about is called EZ-Line ...

http://www.berkshirejunction.com/

Your telephone line looks great. Sounds very similar to the EZ-Line product.

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

I layed some track ballast along side of my Fastrack to blend it into the ground a little better than it appears when just layed on top of the board. I used Pigeon Grit from the local feed store. It's gray in color and looks like the stones that are used to fill along typical railroad tracks. Here are a few pictures.


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## Fighterpilot

Guys, I finally got my country passenger terminal and installed it on the board yesterday. It just did fit in the spot I had planned to put it, so I guess I got lucky with that one. Here are a couple of pictures of the station in place.

I've got one end of the board just about complete, except for some additional track ballast and grass and bush planting. The last shot is a view of that part of the board.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Love it! Looking great!

TJ


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## Giants

Very Nice Layout FP and the EZ-wire is a great Idea.


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## Fighterpilot

Thanks for the compliments guys. It aids in the motivation to get out and get things done. I've been having fun with this. Right now I'm running three transformer controlled locomotives. Two Williams diesels and a Lionel Polar Express. I've enjoyed each of them; but, now wonder if I should think about spending a little more money on my locomotives and get something with a Command Control system with rail sounds and speed control, etc. Are the MTH and Lionel systems compatible? One locomotive that I've lusted for is Lionels Lionmaster 4-6-6-4 Challanger. Any advise or opinions on this would be greatly appreciated by a relative rookie to this hobby.
Thanks,
Bill


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## norgale

That's the best looking Lionel layout I've ever seen Pilot. It's tough to get the scenery just right at that scale but you have really done a great job. The phone lines are a super idea and the new station is just perfect where you have it. I love the detail on the engines. Looking good FP. Pete


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## Fighterpilot

Thanks Norgale, appreciate the comments. Now it's on to the town side of the board. I'm starting to look at what is available in buildings and houses, etc. to put the site of a small town together. I'm thinking of putting about7 to 9 buildings in a town square arrangement, with possibly a flag in the center of the square, with maybe a small lake behind the square. We'll see how that works out after I see what buildings are available. I really like the stuff made by Cornerstone or Walthers. The colors and detail are very good. 
I finished my road into my factory running down the far side of the bridge. I'll post pictures after I download this afternoon. I'm also waiting on some small vehicles I purchased from Fairfield Collectibles, should be in this week.
Later,
Bill


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR

Fighter Pilot - 

That's a great looking layout and in not a lot of space. I'm faced with a similar situation, and will be re-reading this thread in greater detail once I get started.

Well Done.


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## MacDaddy55

*Very Impressive!*

Hey Fighter Pilot, Wow, thats a good looking layout for a small space indeed! If you get that Challenger that would be icing on the cake. Can't wait to see your town and yes Walthers Cornerstone has it all for detail and variety! Good job!:thumbsup:


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## Fighterpilot

I got the road to my factory put in yesterday as well as the roadway underpasses. The industrial end of the board is virtuarly complete except for track bed and some grass and landscaping, with the other end destined to be a little town of buildings and houses. Maybe a small lake. Have to give it more thought. 
Just noticed I have to paint those ugly brown utility poles.


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## norgale

Looking good pilot. Is that set up to run three trains at once? The phone poles should be creosote so just brush on some flat black and leave the streaks. Pete


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## Fighterpilot

The layout is set up to run two trains at once with transformer control; but, if you had Command Control,(that's going to be one of my next purchases) you could chase the train on the outer section of track, on the looping figure 8, around with another train. I sometimes run both of my diesel trains on the outside track with the slower train in the rear. It can take as much as 10 laps before the train that started in front catches up with the train that was behind it. Sort of neat to watch all three trains running around the board.
I know the poles need to be painted black. I've already done some that run in front of the passenger station in the flat black, with elastic thread used as electrical lines between the poles. Posted these pictures earlier.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I had four trains on one small oval using command/control, it was interesting jockeying the throttles to keep them all running and spaced out.


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## Fighterpilot

I got my lake installed. I guess I should call it a pond, since it's rather small. What I did was cut through the 1/4" cork that covers my board, down to the plywood. I tapered the edges inward with some lightweight spackling. I painted the edges lighter than the base color and blended it into black for the center of the pond. Then I filled with my Realistic Water from Woodland Scenics. Pretty easy to do.
I also ordered three building kits from Model Train Stuff. They are Ameri-Town O Scale Post Office/Police Station, Vinny's Grill, and George's 5 & 10.
I was surprised to find when they arrived that they are in fact MADE IN USA.
That being said, they are a lot of work to paint for the pictures on the box are deceiving in that they come in basically one color, brick red. If you want them to look realistic, you can look forward to about 3 to 4 hours of tedious painting. The brick look is obtained by painting on concrete colored paint and then wiping it off with a cotton rag, doing it carefully as to not wipe out the paint from the motar joints. It's rewarding when it's done, but it is a lot of work to finish one up the way it looks on the box.
Here are some pictures of my lake and the new Police Station. I'm going to take my time and build all three of these buildings and order a few more before deciding exactly how I'm going to place them on the layout and how I'm going to run my road and sidewalks.
Here are a few pictures.


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## Fighterpilot

I used a light gray rather than a concrete white for the motar on the second build, hopefully to give it a somewhat different look. I'll probably try dark gray or black on the next building. You have to paint all the windows and frames, as well as the widow arches and doors. The side wall is what it comes out of the box looking like.


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## Fighterpilot

Here are a couple of more pictures of the building and lake.

I just threw in the picture of the Dash 9 because I thought it was cool. I'm working on Vinny's Grill right now. Painting the window frames...I'm think I'm going blind working on these things.


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## Badwolf & Arizona RR

Nice. Great job on the pond.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

That police station looks wonderful ... nice job on the mortar paint. Did you use acrylic (latex) paint for that?

The pond needs a little boy fishing!

Are you using gloss paint on your hillside? Looks shiny. I guess greenery / plants will cover up much of that?

Nice work ... thanks for keeping us updated.

TJ


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## norgale

The pond looks great as does the factory. The police station reminds me a bit of the one in The Heat of the Night. The other building looks good too but I hope you got the rest of it with the kit.
The dash 9 is super. Really nice picture. Pete


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## Fighterpilot

Yes, I did get the other 3 sides  to the building; but, now I've got to paint them...tedious work .
I used acrylic paint to do the mortar lines. You paint the surface making sure you get the paint in the mortar joint, then you wipe off the paint with a cotton cloth stretched over your finger. It leaves the paint in the mortar line and takes it off the surface of the brick.
No, my mountains are not glossy. They are painted with flat water based acrylic latex. Probably the lighting in the picture that makes them look that way.
I got some really nice vehicles from Fairfield Collectables in 1/43 scale. They go great with the layout. I'll post some pictures later tonight. I should have, at least, the front of Vinny's Grill done by then too.

"The pond needs a little boy fishing!" TJ The whole board needs a few things here and there. I do have plans for some additional people around the pond with maybe a pier and a little camp. My problem is the board is just so big that I can't have too many different themes going on, just not enough room. My plan is to make a town square in the center of the right portion of the board; but, I"ve got to get some additional buildings done so I can see how it lays out. That's part of the fun in putting this thing together, the planning, the building, and the landscaping and everything else that goes along with making it look "real".
Later guys,
Bill


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## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> That's part of the fun in putting this thing together ...


Bill,

In that light, it looks like your having a blast! It sure is coming together wonderfully!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Looking great FP:thumbsup:, even though your track is further away from the side then mine it still looks like they could take the plunge.

Are you planning anything around the sides for catching them?
Some kind of guard rail.

Tell me I am living not on the edge.



















But if you look you are living on the edge too and your higher up.
Imagine if that train derailed? 
Maybe this spot would be good for a fish net to catch them. 

That is what I would like to make for mine, fold down netting that you can flip up all the way around just when your running, just in case. 
Flip it down when your not running.:thumbsup:
Get a patent for it too. make some $$$$$$$$$


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## Fighterpilot

Ed, love your engine house and roundtable. Where'd you get that? If I extend my board (must get rid of the motorcycle first) That would be a nice addition on the extension. As for running off the track and falling onto the floor, my need for speed has long since departed (except maybe when I ride my motorcycle) I've gotten the trains up to speeds faster than I would ever want to run them and have never had a derailment. Eventually, I may put a backdrop scene on 3 sides of the board which will protect the trains from falling on the floor.
Attached is a picture of the progress I'm making on Vinny's Grill. I can honestly say that I'd pay twice what these kits cost me if I could get them painted already. Painting the window frames and arches over the windows is a absolute pain in the a#*#%!! I'm about to go blind and I can see no alternative but to finish Vinny's Grill and the 5 & 10 store that I have, and if I want to make my town square, I've got to purchase, paint, and assemble at least two more buildings...ah, the joys of modeling.


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## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Ed, love your engine house and roundtable. Where'd you get that? If I extend my board (must get rid of the motorcycle first) That would be a nice addition on the extension. As for running off the track and falling onto the floor, my need for speed has long since departed (except maybe when I ride my motorcycle) I've gotten the trains up to speeds faster than I would ever want to run them and have never had a derailment. Eventually, I may put a backdrop scene on 3 sides of the board which will protect the trains from falling on the floor.
> Attached is a picture of the progress I'm making on Vinny's Grill. I can honestly say that I'd pay twice what these kits cost me if I could get them painted already. Painting the window frames and arches over the windows is a absolute pain in the a#*#%!! I'm about to go blind and I can see no alternative but to finish Vinny's Grill and the 5 & 10 store that I have, and if I want to make my town square, I've got to purchase, paint, and assemble at least two more buildings...ah, the joys of modeling.





Just keep in mind that a proper round house on a layout takes a lot of room. Mine is on an 8x8 and that is not enough. My turntable should be set back some more from the house. I would say a 12x12 would have been nice for mine.
I got mine years ago off e bay, new, at the time the Atlas turntables were new to the market. I forget the maker of the house, there is one on e bay a different house then mine, 3 stall with the turntable for $216 new. Not a bad price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Atlas-6904-Round-House-Kit-O-gauge-/380341602979?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item588e204aa3

I don't run fast but I have to build a catch for mine. Just in case. Around by the wall the only thing I can think of is a net attached to the table that I can quick attach to the wall. Then I can let it hang when I have to go around the table as I can barely just walk around now. 
Any type of permanent attached guard rail and I wouldn't be able to squeeze around it.

Look at the 2 cars toward the end of the train in your picture. They almost look like they are leaning.

How much more room would you gain in the garage?

Your layout looks great.:thumbsup:


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## Fighterpilot

The car appearing to lean is an illusion of the wide angle lens on the camera. Actually all my turns have a slight bank (like NASCAR tracks). It's about 1/8" bank in 5" width. If I make a backdrop, it'll be made out of 3/4" pink foam insulation which should stop and trains from flying off the track.
You are probably correct on how much room a turntable would take up especially with an engine house. I'd probably be better off just putting in some sidings when I do extend the board. My thought is to come off the right side of the board in an L shape and carry it partially around the back of the operater location. 
Right now I'm caught up planning my town, so I'll put off the extention until this board is completed to my satisfaction.
Like you layout, Ed. I'd love to see the whole thing.


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## Big Ed

I have some pictures here, but you have to search through them. The just fooling around folder has some.

One day I am going to organize them some.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=1461


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## tjcruiser

Bill,

The twin girder bridge looks great, and really is a focal point for your layout. It's all coming together very nicely.

There's actually a term used to describe banked train rails: "Superelevated track" ... we've discussed this on the forum a bit, if you have any interest to Search around.


Ed -- I agree ... very cool roundhouse!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

OK guys, I got Vinny's Grill finished this afternoon. Here are a couple of pictures of the progress.


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## Fighterpilot

*Cowboy Action Shooting*

Just thought a couple of you guys might find this interesting. My other vise is shooting, in particular shooting Cowboy Action Shooting with the Single Action Shooting Society. You have to dress in period clothing (my wife calls it a male's excuse to play dress up) and you have to shoot period authentic firearms. It's all timed, so your shooting against other shooters and the clock. I got into it a couple of years ago and wish I would have done it when I was a lot younger. 
Here are a few pictures of the action.


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## norgale

That's cool pilot. I've always wanted to fire a six shooter. Great pictures. Pete


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## tjcruiser

The Grill looks great! Did you change your mind about the trim color? Rust and then green? Or is the rust a base primer ???

Either looks great to me ... though I'm imagining it with the front doors one color, and the rest of the trim the other color.

Does the fake "horse" buck while you're shooting ???

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

TJ the brown color of the front of the building was the color of the plastic. I painted it green and by the time I got finished painting the widow frames, the window arches, and the lower floor front, I was burned out on this building. Maybe the next one will have different color doors.
Actually, the horse is mounted on 3 car coil springs, so if you move on the horse, it moves on the springs. It is a challenge to shoot from the damned thing, and it's show short coupled, it makes me feel like a jockey in the stirups. What's left of me is 6'4".hwell:
I also got the front of my 5 & 10 store finished. I have to paint the window frames yet and the roof trim. I'll post some pictures of the finished building when I get the window frames painted and the window glass and trim installed inside the building.


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## tjcruiser

Ohh ... silly me ... I had forgotten that the plastic was all that rust color ... the rest of the work-in-progress looked so good, it was hard to tell paint from plastic!

Do you have a store name for the 5 and dime? I spent MANY hours in the local Woolworth's as a kid ... starting at the rows and rows of toys, tropical fish, ice-cream counter, etc. Sad that they are gone.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

All three of these kits were made by OGR Ameri-Town and purchased from ModelTrainStuff.com. The single story building is what they call the Post Office, but it comes with some different name boards like Police, City Hall, Post Office, etc. The other building with the green trim is Vinny's Grill and the third building is called George's 5 & 10. 
I've attached a few more pictures. One shows the completed 5&10 while the others are pictures of the buildings placed on the train board. I've got two more buildings ordered today so that I can attempt to make a town square with 3 buildings across and two on each end turned inward to face the square. We'll just have to wait and see if I have enough room to do that. I think I've already got my pond in the wrong place; but, we're going to live with that. I may have to settle on an L shaped building layout.


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## Fighterpilot

I had forgotten about posting some pictures of the vehicles that I got from Fairfield Collectibles. 
Here are a few shots of those.


----------



## tjcruiser

What material are you using for your road surface ?

Thanks,

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

It is pink foam board, first cut 5 to 6 inches wide and then cut on my bandsaw as thin as possible without cutting the tip of my finger off. It usually comes out about 3/32nd" thick. Then I paint it flat black. I do the same thing for the sidewalks after cutting that about 1" wide for a 4 ft. sidewalk. It bends over the track nicely and cuts easily with an exacto blade to fit between the rails of the tracks.


----------



## santafe158

I just discovered this thread. That's a great looking layout, similar to what I want to build in the near future. I like the progress reports/photos as things are added.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Thanks Sante Fe, it's getting about time to take another picture of the overall board, since I've gotten a lot done since the last picture of the whole board. I'll see if I can get that done tomorrow. 
I did some weathering on my coaling tower tonight since I had all the paint out painting the buildings. I'll include a picture of it tomorrow as well.


----------



## tjcruiser

Re: Road Surface ...



Fighterpilot said:


> It is pink foam board, first cut 5 to 6 inches wide and then cut on my bandsaw as thin as possible without cutting the tip of my finger off. It usually comes out about 3/32nd" thick. Then I paint it flat black. I do the same thing for the sidewalks after cutting that about 1" wide for a 4 ft. sidewalk. It bends over the track nicely and cuts easily with an exacto blade to fit between the rails of the tracks.


That's very clever. The band saw leave little parallel ridges, which actually gives the roadbed a textured sense of realism.

Thanks!

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

Here are a few more pictures of the layout as it stands right now. I need to do more work on the town end of the board, but I'm waiting on a couple more buildings before I lay my final roadway and get into sidewalks and scenery.
The picture of the vehicle by the train station is one I got from Fairfield Collectibles and is that of a 49 Ford pickup.


----------



## Big Ed

You look like Marshall Dillon taming the wild west with that 6 shooter. :thumbsup:

In this picture here in the lower right hand corner, where does it go?
No where? Yet?











You better hurry up and make some more room it looks like you will need it soon.

Looking great!:thumbsup:


----------



## Fighterpilot

You're right, Ed, it goes nowhere. It does give me access to my tunnel to clean track, access cars, etc. I had a door covering the opening that I leaned up against the inside of the opening; but, I didn't like it, so I just stuck a piece of track in the hole and put a car on it. It would be better if it were a gondola with some coal or rock in it, then I could say it goes to the mine under the table.

Yep, when I finish the town side of the board, I'm going to be looking for more to do after I finish all my track bed, add some additional landscaping (have plans for some trees) and lay the asphalt roadways and pour sidewalks in the town. There is a bunch more to do; but, I'm thinking ahead. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and sell my Polaris Ranger or my motorcycle to get some additional room.

Attached is picture of the coaling tower that I weathered recently while I had all the paint out doing the buildings, I got brave and smeared a bunch of black on the coaling tower and then wiped it off. Hence the results!
After looking at the pictures, I see I need to put some coal dust on those concrete footings too, they are way too clean.

< near duplicate posts merged ... TJ >


----------



## Big Ed

Put a coal train over there.

Sprinkle some coal around the ground too.
It is too clean around the base.

Maybe a little coal on the chute?


----------



## Fighterpilot

i got all my buildings finished for my downtown area, finished the road and parking area for the downtown shops. Sidewalks along the front of the buildings will form a town square, with the flagpole in the middle. By the way, if anybody knows a source for a small flag to go on the flag pole, probably about 2"x 4" or so, I'd appreciate your advise.
Here are a few pictures.


----------



## tjcruiser

It's really coming together wonderfully, Bill. Great work!

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

No coal?

The town is looking good.

Do you have Ice skaters for the pond?
I have an N scale w/t skaters.


----------



## tjcruiser

big ed said:


> Do you have Ice skaters for the pond?


In the summer?!? It's a summer scene, isn't it?

Ed ... you guys in Jersey can skate across the ponds in summer ... but that's not because they're frozen ... it's because of all of the coagulated oil ****. 

(Dohh ... I know that's gonna put me in Ed's dog house for a while. Sorry ... coudln't resist! )

TJ


----------



## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> In the summer?!? It's a summer scene, isn't it?
> 
> Ed ... you guys in Jersey can skate across the ponds in summer ... but that's not because they're frozen ... it's because of all of the coagulated oil ****.
> 
> (Dohh ... I know that's gonna put me in Ed's dog house for a while. Sorry ... coudln't resist! )
> 
> TJ


I am debating whether to hit the red exclamation point to report this.

As it falls under problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. :smokin:


Your walking a thin line Bud!:knock_teeth_out::knock_teeth_out:

No respect, no respect!:dunno:


----------



## tjcruiser

See ... in the dog house ... I knew it! 

Dohh! 

(Sorry to sidetrack your thread, FP ... gotta keep Ed on his toes every now and then, though!)

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

Yea, Ed, I did get some coal to put on the ground at the coal tower and glued some coal in the chute. I probably need a little more on the ground; but, I'm going to wait until I get finished with my grass and gravel and I need to pull the inside siding track and power it up with a wire lead. When that's done, I'll add some more coal to the ground and shoot you a couple of pictures.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Got my sidewalks down in the downtown square. Used sticky backed 220 grit sandpaper that I had. Comes on a roll so you can just payout what you need, paint it, and stick it in place.


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

Sorry if you've already mentioned this, but what are you using to paint (?) on the white road lines?

Looks great,

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

TJ, the roads are pink foam cut about 3/32" thick and a little over 5" wide. The lines in the roadway and parking area are made with a silver pencil obtained at an art supply store. You have to dampen the point of the pencil to get it to write on the foam without having to push down to hard (don't want to dent the foam) on the pencil point. I think I could use a couple of more automobiles on the road, so I might order some tonight. Got to see what's available. Some of them are as cheap as $13 to $14 dollars; but, some of those little scutters are over $100.00. Don't need any of those.


----------



## norgale

Good looking work Fighterpilot. I like the flagpole too. Nice touch. AS for the vehicles and people for the layout,it would probably pay you to take a look on eBay for some of those. Lots of stuff on there and prices are generally much less than 'new' stuff. Pete


----------



## Fighterpilot

Hey Guys, finally got registered on You tube and was able to post a video of my train running. Site is highlighted below.


----------



## norgale

That doesn't work. Go to utube,left click on you ut name and then lsft click on videos. Find the title to your video and right click on it. A menu will appear and at the bottom "Properties" is listed. Left click on "Properties" and a box will appear somewhere on your screen. Left click the URL or address of the video three time quickly and the URL will become highlighted. Righ click on the URL and you will see another menue where it says copy. Left click on "Copy" and then left click on "OK".
Now exit the ut site and go to the RR site where you posted the first url.
Left click "Reply". 
Left click the text box to get the cursor going and then right click and you get another box that will say "Paste". Left click on "Paste" and you will see your uRL posted in the reply box. Hit "Post reply" and it should work then. Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Here's the correct link.


----------



## tjcruiser

Bill (FP),

Your layout has come together wonderfully. What fun to see three trains running together! Excellent work, and thanks for sharing,

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

I'll try that. I cut and pasted the address while the video was playing, but, I'll try what you said. You might find it if you searc 3 trains running posted by wkrum.


----------



## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Got my sidewalks down in the downtown square. Used sticky backed 220 grit sandpaper that I had. Comes on a roll so you can just payout what you need, paint it, and stick it in place.



why does the army plane has the checkerboard paint job?
tell the pilot to watch the cross winds. That wind sock is full.
Do you have Old Glory for the post?
Coal looks good.

Is your track set up in blocks? So you can run the trains on the same track.
Can you set up blocks on that track?


----------



## Fighterpilot

Ed, I have no idea why the army airplane has a checker board paint scheme. I do know that in WWII some of the squadrons had various checker board, strips, different color noses and tails, etc. to signify their particular squadron. I've just had that little diecast biplane forever and I thought it would look good hanging over the board.
I do have some blocks set up on the tracks; however, I'm running both trains on the same track in the video and keeping them apart by varing the transformer input on the up grade. When one starts catching up with the other, I just decrease power to the tracks so the train catching up stalls on the incline, the other train then increases it's distance in front to where I can add power again and let them run for about 15 min. before the faster train catches up again. Both diesels are running on the same track, the Polar Express is running on a separate loop altogether. I can switch either train from the inside to the outside loop; but, don't want to do that when I have three of them going around. It's sort of like jugling and having too many balls in the air at one time


----------



## norgale

Back in the old days airplanes looked a lot alike. Squadrons painted their planes with certain graphics so they could tell immediatly who they were shooting at. If it didn't have their colors on it,down it went. Saved a lot of guys from being shot down by their buds. pete


----------



## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Ed, I have no idea why the army airplane has a checker board paint scheme. I do know that in WWII some of the squadrons had various checker board, strips, different color noses and tails, etc. to signify their particular squadron. I've just had that little diecast biplane forever and I thought it would look good hanging over the board.
> I do have some blocks set up on the tracks; however, I'm running both trains on the same track in the video and keeping them apart by varing the transformer input on the up grade. When one starts catching up with the other, I just decrease power to the tracks so the train catching up stalls on the incline, the other train then increases it's distance in front to where I can add power again and let them run for about 15 min. before the faster train catches up again. Both diesels are running on the same track, the Polar Express is running on a separate loop altogether. I can switch either train from the inside to the outside loop; but, don't want to do that when I have three of them going around. It's sort of like jugling and having too many balls in the air at one time


I think the wings looks good over the RR.:thumbsup: I am looking for a blimp and hot air balloon for mine. To go with the chopper I have a plane would be nice too.



norgale said:


> Back in the old days airplanes looked a lot alike. Squadrons painted their planes with certain graphics so they could tell immediatly who they were shooting at. If it didn't have their colors on it,down it went. Saved a lot of guys from being shot down by their buds. pete


I knew there had to be a reason. 
It must have gotten quite hectic when you had 20 or more planes in a dogfight flying all over shooting at each other.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Perhaps this explains it.



> Researchers concluded that the zigzag and checkered patterns skewed perceptions of the objects’ speeds. They found that the study participants tended to determine the “dazzled” objects as moving 7 percent slower than those painted with horizontal or vertical lines. It best performs during events where visual contact is imperative (such as nature and low-tech battlefields)


If you can fool the enemy about the actual speed of the aircraft, that affects his ability to lead properly and hit you in a dogfight.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Perhaps this explains it.
> 
> 
> If you can fool the enemy about the actual speed of the aircraft, that affects his ability to lead properly and hit you in a dogfight.



Now that would be an excellent reason too.
Nice find.:thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

It took a bit of searching, you'd think that would be somewhat common knowledge if it's effective.  

I guess nowadays in the era of radar and IR guided gun sights and missiles, the paint job doesn't matter much unless it's radar absorbent paint.


----------



## tjcruiser

The same zig-zag / jagged paint schemes were used on WWII ships to confuse enemy subs re: their speed, heading. It's commonly referred to as "dazzle camouflage" ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

Maybe I could dazzle one of my trains.....


----------



## tjcruiser

FP ... that might look really cool, actually!


----------



## Fighterpilot

I believe the Germans used that pattern on some trains during WWII as well as ships. I'll look for some pictures.


----------



## plandis

wow. just looked over this thread. very nice job FP. That is a lot of action in a small space! Did you ever get your Challenger? the track radii may be a challenge for it! 
about the paint schemes- that dizzying pattern is also used in nature by Zebras (according to my kids) to evade attack from predators!
FP- have you room to get under and poke some lighting up into those buildings? might look cool at night! Very good job. 

Have you tried black powder from horseback? there's club out here that does that. Its amazing to see.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Decided to expand rather than sell...makes since to me . Going to add 3 feet to the right side of the board where the three tracks run parallel to each other in the turn at the end of the table. This will give me room to lengthen my grade and to add some sidings coming off the main line in the middle of the board. Should be relatively simple by just adding 3 feet to each run on each side of the table. Of coarse I'll have to cut away some grade elevations and add some new ones with paper mache beneath; but, I enjoyed this layout most when I was building it, so expanding it should be fun and really add to the look of the layout when it's done. Now where can I put those two tool boxes of mine to get room for the additional 3 feet? Always a challenge!


----------



## Fighterpilot

Guys, a friend of mine loaned me his MTH Railking Union Pacific SD70AC Diesel locomotive today to run on my layout. I was really impressed with the smoke unit and the rail sounds. The braking, spooling up of the engine, and the relative constant speed, even going up my grades. I have an opportunity to get an engine just like it for about $245.00 and was wondering what kind of a deal that was. It has Proto Sounds 2. and if I understand correctly the various functions and sounds can be controlled remotely with a relatively inexpensive unit.. Can anyone give me any advise on this? Thanks.


----------



## norgale

Too many times I have not done something or not purchased something that I wanted because I didn't know if the deal was good or not or if the product was a good one and regretted it later on. I think we miss out on a lot by being too prudent sometimes so here's what I would do. Obviously you like the engine and are satisfied with the way it performs. All you need to do now is go online to MTH, look up that engine and check the retail price of it. If it's less than retail then good but if it's more then that's not good.
So you like it,you have the money, the price is ok so BUY THE DARNED THING and live happily everafter. Pete


----------



## norgale

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Here's the correct link.


I think that's the first three rail layout that I have seen with fully ballasted track. Sure looks great. Nice layout and the trains run very well. Pete


----------



## Gansett

norgale said:


> So you like it,you have the money, the price is ok so BUY THE DARNED THING and live happily everafter. Pete


Boy, that's the truth. So many times I've seen something I wanted/needed.
I should have bought it right then and there but always thought I could find it in better shape or less expensive. Never worked out that way. By then the item I saw first is gone.


----------



## norgale

Here's a little story that happened yesterday. I have two very nice,almost new tool boxes for sale in my store. Each has tools in it and they are new and still in their wrappers. A guy asked me how much for the tool boxes and I said "Ten dollars each". The guy asked if that included the tools and I said yes. He then started in about how the tools were just cheap tools from Harbor Freight and blablabla. So I said "Lets go look at them" and we did. When I opened the boxes and saw all the new stuff I changed my mind and told the guy he could have the empty tool box for ten dollars and he said no,that was too much. OK. Good by.
I took both boxes outside and put them on my display table and within an hour I sold them both for $50. The first guy came back in the afternoon and agreed that $10 was a great price and It gave me great pleasure to tell him they were sold.
Moral is that when I tell ya Ten bucks for a nice tool box you should take it. He who hesitates is lost. Old Indian saying. Ha! Pete


----------



## tjcruiser

Someone had a "Lessone Learned" moment!


----------



## norgale

Happens all the time but the two tool boxes were an especially good buy for the guy. He just got a little too greedy. Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's always fun.


----------



## norgale

Ya it was. It's never a good idea to play another guys game unless you know the game too.


----------



## Big Ed

Why were you selling them so cheap in the first place?


----------



## norgale

That's a reasonable question Ed but the answer isn't so simple. I've been a salesman all my life and I've run this store for over two years. After awhile you develope a sense of judging people by their talk and body language. Everybody does this to some extent but a person who is in constant contact with all kinds of people from all over the world will develope this sense to a greater degree.
This guy triggered my experience as being shifty and underhanded by his low soft speech like he didn't want any one to overhear him and his overly friendly,even patronizing manner like we were old friends and I've never seen the guy in my life.
I just knew he was looking for a 'deal' so I gave him one that I thought he couldn't resist. I could tell by his eyes that the price was way less then he thought it would be. But he did resist and wanted the boxes cheaper and that kinda pi$$ed me off. I felt like he insulted me so I backed out on the deal and made him a lesser one which ,of course,he refused as I expected. At that point he knew he'd screwed up and he left. 
I can't really say why I low balled him with the price except that maybe I just knew he wouldn't take it. Sort of a sixth sense feeling or something like that.
Don't know if that explains it or not Ed but that's how it happened. pete


----------



## Fighterpilot

Thanks for the advise guys...I must have read your minds because I ordered the damned thing yesterday afternoon. I'll let you know how I like it.
Thanks for bringing the video of my trains up. It has both diesel trains running on the outer overlapping figure 8 and the steamer running on the inside double reversing loop which parallels the figure 8. I gave it a lot of thought when I designed the layout because I didn't want what appeared to be two trains running in a circle, no matter how devious it might appear. So, I came up with this layout where you really have to watch it closely to see where the trains are going and where they came from. The track is lionel fastrack, with grey pigeon grit used for ballast on the outside.
My plans are to extend the end of the table, the right side of the board, by about 3 feet.. later to turn an L back from the right side of the layout. That will be in the future, probably within the next 6 months.
Here is a neat picture that I took yesterday while playing around with by borrowed engine.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Norgalle, got a similar story. Years ago when I was in the contracting business. I had a contract with a fellow to install the electrical controls for a small sewer lift station. The contract was for, if I can remember correctly, $1500.00. He was furnishing all the controls. When we were done, he came over to me and said, "That didn't take you very long, how about I give you $1000.00." I then told him no, the price had gone up to $2000.00. He told me, "but the contract was for $1500.00." I then told him since he was trying to get a better deal, so was I... He never said another word and paid the bill with out a problem..Yep, sometimes you just have to teach 'em a lesson!


----------



## raleets

Pete,
I also spent the majority of my adult life in sales/sales management. Some wise old guy once said "it's a good deal when both parties walk away feeling like they screwed the other guy". 
Makes perfect sense to me!
Bob


----------



## Gansett

Working in insurance claims, the most hated persons in the world, it doesn't take very long to learn everyone is out to beat you over the head for more $$$.
Wanna learn how to sell? Try selling money.


----------



## norgale

Way to go FP. Now that's quick thinking and I will remember it. 
Raleets I have not heard that saying before but it is very accurate I'd say. Good one. 
Jack I'm trying to quit selling. I am exhausted everyday I spend in that store trying to keep people from beating me up on prices. Right now I simply tell them to come back in June when the season is over and maybe I'll come down on the price. I have three months of good selling to make a living and that time goes by fast. The rest of the year I work on my trains. Ha!


----------



## Big Ed

norgale said:


> Way to go FP. Now that's quick thinking and I will remember it.
> Raleets I have not heard that saying before but it is very accurate I'd say. Good one.
> Jack I'm trying to quit selling. I am exhausted everyday I spend in that store trying to keep people from beating me up on prices. Right now I simply tell them to come back in June when the season is over and maybe I'll come down on the price. I have three months of good selling to make a living and that time goes by fast. The rest of the year I work on my trains. Ha!



That is the reason I don't do yard sales anymore. If I price a good deal at a buck, 90% of "them" try to get it for a dime.


----------



## SouthernGent

I don't about your guys but that is the best layout I have seen. Great art work might not say that correctly but it is a work of art. FP

Gent


----------



## Big Ed

SouthernGent said:


> I don't about your guys but that is the best layout I have seen. Great art work might not say that correctly but it is a work of art. FP
> 
> Gent



We agree.

He was going to tear it down and sell everything!
For now, I think we changed his mind.

Edit, It was in this thread,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8558


----------



## SouthernGent

big ed said:


> We agree.
> 
> He was going to tear it down and sell everything!
> For now, I think we changed his mind.
> 
> Edit, It was in this thread,
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8558



Big Ed,
Thanks for telling him it is a keeper. I live in the same town as FP and met him at the local train shop. I was hopping onday I could see it in person.
Gent


----------



## Fighterpilot

Gent, sent you a private message. Give me a call and come on over.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Ok guys. you have all convinced me to keep my train board (trust me, all I needed was a little incouragement).
Now it's decision making time. Do I go with Lionel Legacy or MTH DCS? I really have to research both a lot more to make a decision; but, I am always interested in what the more experienced have to offer on the subject. Help me out here fellows and give me some of the pros and cons of each system.
Thanks,
Bill


----------



## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Gent, sent you a private message. Give me a call and come on over.





Fighterpilot said:


> Ok guys. you have all convinced me to keep my train board (trust me, all I needed was a little incouragement).
> Now it's decision making time. Do I go with Lionel Legacy or MTH DCS? I really have to research both a lot more to make a decision; but, I am always interested in what the more experienced have to offer on the subject. Help me out here fellows and give me some of the pros and cons of each system.
> Thanks,
> Bill



I never had either, Gunny John will tell you. I guess.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Fighterpilot said:


> Gent, sent you a private message. Give me a call and come on over.


It's a long drive, I'll have to pass. :laugh:


----------



## seabilliau

FP,
I'm glad to hear your are sticking with it. Its a great layout.


----------



## deserteel

looking good


----------



## Fighterpilot

Trying to post another video  http://youtu.be/gJN89nlnij8


----------



## Fighterpilot

*Union Pacific Video of startup*

Delete this


----------



## SouthernGent

*Union Pacific*

FP, that sure is a nice engine and didn't know that they smoke. Cool! The layout inhances the train.


----------



## [email protected]

Great thread. We can watch it grow up in a few clicks. Outstanding!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Is this what you're trying to do?

Just copy the ID, which is the last string of characters, and use the







icon on the advanced reply box. The string for this video is: *gJN89nlnij8*, and the result is.


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

That vid reminds us all how wonderful your layout is. I am so very glad that you decided to expand / gucci-up, rather than sell this talented creation!

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

This is a new video, actually the first of the last two that I made. Hope you guys enjoy.

Yea, Gunrunnerjohn, that's what I'm trying to do..however I'm trying to do the next video which is at this location 
 http://youtu.be/tLGJ7l1obIk 

Holy C#@%*&#!!! Batman, it worked, but I don't know what I did differently. Oh well.


----------



## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Ok guys. you have all convinced me to keep my train board (trust me, all I needed was a little incouragement).
> Now it's decision making time. Do I go with Lionel Legacy or MTH DCS? I really have to research both a lot more to make a decision; but, I am always interested in what the more experienced have to offer on the subject. Help me out here fellows and give me some of the pros and cons of each system.
> Thanks,
> Bill





big ed said:


> I never had either, Gunny John will tell you. I guess.





gunrunnerjohn said:


> It's a long drive, I'll have to pass. :laugh:


John he didn't ask you to go see his trains it was someone else?

He asked the above question, can you give him an ideal of them?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Open the full reply window.

Copy ONLY the highlighted portion of the link.

http://youtu.be/*tLGJ7l1obIk*

Click the







button on the top of the reply window.

Paste the copied ID from YouTube between the YT and /YT symbols. I'll look like this:









This will be the result in the message.


----------



## Big Ed

big ed said:


> John he didn't ask you to go see his trains it was someone else?
> 
> He asked the above question, can you give him an ideal of them?



I guess John doesn't want to tell you fighter.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> I guess John doesn't want to tell you fighter.


I already answered his PM to me on the topic, didn't feel the need to repeat it here.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I already answered his PM to me on the topic, didn't feel the need to repeat it here.


OK....nothing worse then being ignored.

I though my type was invisible.hwell:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Your type is invisible, I just happen to read invisible typing.


----------



## norgale

Heh heh heh! You must have xray vision John. You a Super Hero? I hope so. We need all the help we can get around here. Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Aren't we all Super Hero's?


----------



## norgale

Sure. I know I am. Ha!


----------



## Fighterpilot

I've been working on a backdrop for the back and two sides of my layout. Painted the sky blue with some light blue blended and some distant mountains on the horizon. Actually for my first attempt, they didn't come out too bad, but an artist I'm not. Started by spilling a whole quart of the darker blue all over the patio.. all I can say is thank God for pressure washers.. Was actually able to scoop up about 2/3 of the quart and put it back in the can. What a mess.
I'll post some pictures when I get them completed and installed. I have half of the back and the left side in place now.

You know trying to find and talk to somebody that is running bot MTH DCS and Lionel Legacy is turning out to be pretty tough. My buddy, who just bought the MTH controller and TIU had to send the TIU back to MTH . It wouldn't program his locomotives. I'm leaning toward Lionel's Legacy, just because of his experience. although he talked to the MTH rep. and got excellent customer service so far. We'll see how long it takes for him to get his TIU back.


----------



## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> Started by spilling a whole quart of the darker blue all over the patio.. all I can say is thank God for pressure washers.


 I've had my own bonehead rainbow-of-colors moments like that over the years. Fortunately, always on a surface that could be cleaned up without too much worry. Someday, somewhere, though, I know there's a "carpet moment" in my future ...


----------



## Gansett

Matt is a friend of my son and I love him dearly. He is a hellofva auto mechanic. But he's a clutz, he can trip over the design in a vinyl floor.
We were having "oil change Saturday", 5 vehicles, two open oil catch containers. More than once I said to empty them into a old 5 gallon gas container, I take the old oil to another friend who heats his garage with a waste oil heater. Works very well too.
More than once Matt said not a problem,,then he stepped right in the middle of one, jumped back and stepped on the edge of the other flipping it up and coating him from the waist down in dirty oil. 
3 years later, the grass is still dead and the stain still visable in the driveway.
But I still love'em.


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## tjcruiser

I like the vinyl floor comment!

Whatever you do, don't hand him one of the new flourescent light bulbs. God forbid the drop the thing, and you'll have to call in OSHA and HAZMAT teams to clean up the nanogram of mercury.

Then again, if any of us drops one of those new bulbs, we'll have to call in the HAZMAT teams ...

"Go Green" ...

Yeah ... right ...


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## norgale

tjcruiser said:


> I like the vinyl floor comment!
> 
> Whatever you do, don't hand him one of the new flourescent light bulbs. God forbid the drop the thing, and you'll have to call in OSHA and HAZMAT teams to clean up the nanogram of mercury.
> 
> Then again, if any of us drops one of those new bulbs, we'll have to call in the HAZMAT teams ...
> 
> "Go Green" ...
> 
> Yeah ... right ...


When you call the hazmat team you not only get the spill cleaned up but you get the bill that goes with it. Talk about the national debt being big. Pete


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## raleets

TJ,
Wow! Did you ever hit a raw nerve at this house.
My wife and I absolutely REFUSE to participate in the frickin' "green thing" with flourescent bulbs. Damned the few cents savings, the light they emit just doesn't get it with the wife and I. Hate 'em! Ergo, we've been stocking up on "real" light bulbs and have enough to last the rest of our days on this planet, at least above the ground.
I use flourescent tubes out in the big garage.....lots of 'em, but ONLY because it's a big area and I like LOTS of light.
Furthermore, it's just another classic example of our beloved government telling us what's "good" for us. Gestapo tactics at their finest! :thumbsdown:
Just my three cents,
Bob


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## [email protected]

Hello Fighter and Pilot,

Is that your Vought machine? All of my uncles and my Dad were flyers. I had more sense. I joined the submarine service. 5 knots, 100 feet; those are my kind of numbers.

Dad finished his career as FAA Flight Standards here in KC and on Guam before that. He had an office in the Saigon embassy. I missed all that fun. I did go to school on Guam, so I can say "Hello" and "Don't shoot!" in all the Asian dialects...


----------



## Gansett

No need to stock up Bob, the ban on regular bulbs has been lifted. Light company passed out those new bulbs 10 years ago, 6 per house. Tried one, nix'd it and put it back in the box. 

Matt has a LED droplight, instant sun! Small, very bright and rugged.


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## norgale

I use the squiggly flourescents because they give off much less heat than the "real bulbs" and they do use less electricity but I only use three of them,one over this computer and two on my work bench. Don't like the $5 price though and although they are supposed to last five years the most I even got was two years. No better than the regular bulbs.
I too resent the stupid government telling me how to live my life. It boils down to whoever has the best lobby in DC, as to who makes what I guess. Glad to hear the ban on the incandescents has been lifted. Pete


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## Gansett

I think the next big push will be for LED's in the home. They give off a lot of light, cheap to use, long life span, can be color corrected, and cost a arm and a leg.


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## Fighterpilot

Tlhe only thing green about my house is the shutters, and my wife drives a Lincoln Navigator. One of the 10 least enviromentally friendly vehicles on the road; but, it sure drives nicely and I don't feel like I'm riding around in a tin can waiting to be crushed. Oh, my other vehicle is a Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummings Diesel. Love that global warming, son!!

I think my first attempt at a backdrop is too dark and the horizon needs to be a little higher. The new water tower is a vase from a flower arrangement my wife had on the table (painted it white) and the top is a Country Crook mashed potatoes container and a majarine container for the bottom. Glued together, primed and painted..


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## norgale

Way to go FP. Ya got a picture of the flower pot and the mashed potatoe container? I gotta see this.
Love the Navigator and I have a Dodge 2500 with the Hemi Magnum in it along with a 1960 Lincoln Premiere sedan with a 430 ci v-8 at 350 HP. The Lincoln gets 8 MPG and the Dodge gets 13 MPG. I love both of them a lot but they do cost to run. Pete


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## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> I think my first attempt at a backdrop is too dark and the horizon needs to be a little higher.


Can you raise the backdrop board (to lift the horizon)?

Try adding some "haze" to the sky as it dips towards the horizon ... a truer sky blue up high, but faded to more white towards the distant mountains.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Tough to do for a non artist like me.. I'm better with a spray can than with a brush. I knew the minute I put up the two backdrops that they were too dark and the horizon needed to be higher. I don't want the back drop any higher though because I want to be able to reach over it, so I'll raise the horizon and try lightening up the sky and blending the horizon a little. I need some art lessons..


----------



## Big Ed

I like the deep blue sky :thumbsup:, all it needs is some clouds floating around.
Sponge them in, you need the right kind of sponge, Home depot has them, if you do buy them get a few different ones. Different sponges have different holes in them they leave different patterns. They are not like an ordinary dish sponge, it is not that hard to sponge in some clouds.
I sponged my whole living room ceiling three different colors.
It hid all the imperfections.:thumbsup:

Maybe in the corner, a mountain painted in?

That blue reminds me of the sky the day the Trade Center was hit. It started out as a very crisp, clear day, deep blue sky & not a cloud in site.


----------



## Fighterpilot

norgale said:


> Way to go FP. Ya got a picture of the flower pot and the mashed potatoe container? I gotta see this.
> Love the Navigator and I have a Dodge 2500 with the Hemi Magnum in it along with a 1960 Lincoln Premiere sedan with a 430 ci v-8 at 350 HP. The Lincoln gets 8 MPG and the Dodge gets 13 MPG. I love both of them a lot but they do cost to run. Pete


Yea, check out the water tower. That is the mashed potato container and flower vase used as a base.http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15851&d=1329883654 
The top of the water container is the mashed potato plastic bowl, the bottom is a butter container. Glued the two together and used the vas as the semi hour glassed base. I think it came out pretty good. Beats paying $30.oo odd dollars for a water tower.


----------



## norgale

Now that is really clever and it looks great too. Like your scenicing. Pete


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## Fighterpilot

I borrowed one of my friends MTH Remote Commander to try on my MTH Union Pacific with DCS. All I can say is the system leaves something to be desired. It works 80% of the time with the whistle being the best part of the operation made available that's not accessible with a ZW Lionel transformer. Sometimes the whistle will blow continuously until I get it to stop by continuously pressing the whistle button on the remote. I will say the layout is more fun with it than without it; but, it is not consistent. I do understand that the wiring under the table is critical for correct operation of MTH's dcs system. I'll think about crawling under my table to wire everything back to one terminal block in the middle of the table with a main lead of 18 ga. wire going to the block from the Transformer. Until then, I'm happy enough now. I think my next big investment will be Lionel Legacy.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I think you'll be happy with the Legacy system. It's easier to add to an existing setup like yours, DCS sometimes requires a little advanced planning in the wiring department. TMCC/Legacy usually works by connecting one wire.


----------



## BraytoChicago

Fighterpilot said:


> I worked with the pink foam insulation board again to make my retaining wall and tunnel portals. You can etch the stuff with a good staight edge and a sharp pencil.


Wow! that's walls look fantastic. Fair play! Great job. So you used just a stright edge and a sharp pencil? Did you use a hot wire?


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## Fighterpilot

BraytoChicago said:


> Wow! that's walls look fantastic. Fair play! Great job. So you used just a stright edge and a sharp pencil? Did you use a hot wire?


No hot wire necessary. Just cut to shape with a table band saw, scribe your lines with a sharp pencil, paint, and weather.. Be sure to use water based acrylic paint when painting. Most spray cans of paint will eat the foam.. Once coated with water based and it drys, you can weather with a spay can of paint.


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## SouthernGent

Hello Everone,
I had a good time over at FP house and enjoyed running my Lionel 671 and tender. Man oh man FP has some cool warbirds too. I inviteded him to fly at "A Tribute to Veterans" on the 24 March 2012 from 1100 to 1300 hrs. FP is flying a P-51D Blue Nose.
Gent


----------



## Fighterpilot

*Phase II*

Well, I cleaned out a section of the garage and made room for an additional 3 ft. on the length of the layout. I also purchased my first premium Lionel locomotive today, a AC6000 Diesel Sante Fe Cab #9876 with Legacy, Odysee speed control, and the latest Railsounds from Lionel. What a great looking locomotive. I have resisted taking it out of the box until I get the addition to the table top completed; but, when I do take her out of the box for the maiden run around the board, I'll be sure to take some photographs and post them. I also bought the Legacy Command control system since I couldn't see the use in having this fantastic locomotive and not being able to access all of it's features..
Here are a couple of pictures of the beginnings of the extension.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

I am SO glad you didn't sell this layout are are, in fact, expanding ... both dimensionally and via gucci'd-up loco. Enjoy the ride, and do keep us posted on the fun!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Pink wood?

I don't think I ever saw pink wood.
Did you buy it like that or paint it?


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## SouthernGent

FP
Looks good so far? If it is any thing like the rest of the layout it should turn out perfect.
I've got the program flyers for the "Tribute to A Veteran" done and have you in it flying your BlueNose P-51 Mustang. Looking foward to seeing you fly.
Gent


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## Fighterpilot

Ed, I use it because the color helps me stay in touch with my feminine side........
Actually, it's a treatment they put on the studs to help stop termites, down here in the south, from eating your home. It helps somewhat; but, it's not a solution.

I purchased my first Lionel Legacy locomotive yesterday, a Sante Fe AC6000. I ran it on the layout in transformer control just to see if it cleared all obstructions on the layout, and it does. So now it's time to hook up the Command Controller. Will do that after reading a bunch more of the instructions, both with the Legacy command system and locomotive.

I also finished the top of my table extension, except for the 1/4" cork topping. That should get glued down Thursday.

Attached are a few pictures, hope you enjoy.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

What's your gameplan for the extension in terms of track layout?

Just curious,

TJ


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## Gansett

Fighterpilot said:


> Actually, it's a treatment they put on the studs to help stop termites, down here in the south, from eating your home. It helps somewhat; but, it's not a solution.


20-25+ years ago my FIL and I went to So Carolina to lend a hand to my FIL'S brother who had a little house fire. I saw bugs down there big enough to mate with a horse!


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## manchesterjim

JackC said:


> 20-25+ years ago my FIL and I went to So Carolina to lend a hand to my FIL'S brother who had a little house fire. I saw bugs down there big enough to mate with a horse!


In Charleston they called them "Palmetto Bugs"!


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## Fighterpilot

tjcruiser said:


> FP,
> 
> What's your gameplan for the extension in terms of track layout?
> 
> Just curious,
> 
> TJ


TJ, the plan is to extend the 3 current tracks to the new end of the board. That will eliminate the apparent circle that the trains go in coming off the bridges. See page 9 for pictures of the layout and where I plan to extend. That will make that end of the table have 3 more feet of straight track on each of those end circles. It will also allow me to put the track back down on the board as it comes out from under the bridge and put a turnout there. Now that the layout is longer, it give me enough room to place two sidings inside of the end of the right side loop. I don't know how clear that is, but basically I'm extending the current design by 3 feet on the right side of the board, then adding two sidings on the inside of the longer end. Will relocate the town more parallel to the tracks and turn the road toward the end, paralleling the sidings.
Be patient TJ , you know I'll post pictures and it won't take that long. When I get going, you can smell the wood burning.
I'm gluing the cork down tonight, so I'm still open for ideas.. any help is always appreciated and my theory is that the more minds on this subject the better. Sharing ideas is what it's all about..


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## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Ed, I use it because the color helps me stay in touch with my feminine side........
> Actually, it's a treatment they put on the studs to help stop termites, down here in the south, from eating your home. It helps somewhat; but, it's not a solution



OK I see, I never saw pink wood before.
I was going to add this, :supergay:but then I remembered your profile picture with that weapon around your waist and decided not to.

IT IS NOT BIG ENOUGH YET.:laugh: ( the extension)


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Got it ... so you'll be ripping up the curved end-sections of the existing track, and essentially shifting them over with a "blend in" on scenery.

Some redo on landscaping, of course, but the end product should add some great extra real estate.

Nice!

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Exactly TJ, I really needed to get that side of the table a little longer so the circle back under the bridge wouldn't be so obviously a round circle. Doing that will also give me more track to get to my highest elevations thereby reducing my grades, making them more gradual. I'll also have room for a couple of sidings inside the extended loop parallel to the new straight track being added. 
I thought about just using the new section of the table as a marshalling yard, but with the two sidings added on the inside, I think I can park a couple of locomotives there along with a few cars. What do you think?


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## tjcruiser

I'm with you in my thinking. Though extended the track turns over to the new section will entail some scenery / landscaping redo, it will open up more "town" real estate, yard sidings, etc. I like the improvement in elevation grade, too. Sounds like a thumbs-up plan to me!

The alternative is to use the new extension simply as an "add on" siding yard, but my vision of that is not as appealing ... I'd fear that it would look to "orphaned" from the nice flow of the rest of the layout, especially if the existing track end-turns stayed more-or-less as is, isolating off that new section.

My two cents, anyway ...

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

After a conversation with Lionel regarding the Cab 2 not being able to bind with the base (Units were shipped without the chips being downloaded), I was able to get my Legacy up and running with my new Sante Fe AC6000. There is definitely a learning curve here, and I'm currently at the bottom; but, all I can say is FAN-FRICKIN-TASTIC. I had to turn off the smoke unit because even at the lowest setting, it literally ran me out of the shop. Next thing will be wiring up the Legacy permanently to the outer rail. I just clamped it on with a close pin this afternoon to check it out.
I also got the cork glued to the top of my board extension, so next is painting and extending the track. I'll take a few pictures of the progress as I move along the process. I removed my small mountian at the old end of the board so the track can flow thru that point. I was able to save it by just cutting all the way around the base and removing it. When I relocate it, I'll just plaster cloth it back in place.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Sounds good, glad you got the Legacy running. Many of the Legacy locomotives will smoke you out of house and home!. I can't run my new Legacy PARR Uboat smoke for long, it cuts the visibility in the room!


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## Fighterpilot

You can go through a gallon of smoke fluid too!


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## gunrunnerjohn

I do notice that I add smoke fluid more in the real smokers, they go through it pretty quickly.


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## Fighterpilot

*Earthquake hits railroad town*

Well guys, the "Hack & Slash" workshop has been hard at work on the layout extension..I removed all the round ends of the layout and extended the main line all the way to the end of the table.. The inside reversing loop is the next line and then the inside of the mainline is next. All are extended 35" You can note in the pictures that the grade has been lessened due to my climb to elevation being spread out over a longer distance. On the inside of the outer line runs, I will rebuild the town square and also have a couple of long sidings where I can park a couple of trains and maybe line up a few warehouses and other freight type buildings. I may move my country passenger station, but I have to see how things work out and look before I do that. I should get all the elevation completed tomorrow and track secured down on the board.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

I knew in your capable hands that this was going to be a seamless transition over to The New World. Nice progress ... keep us posted!

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Thanks TJ, the compliments from you guys, that have already been there and done that, are appreciated. I should get all the track down today. The hardest part is putting back together all the pieces I cut out of the board for the existing lifts. They are getting put back down in the board and new parts are being cut out.
Later,
Bill


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## Fighterpilot

Well, my Legacy locomotive is on the way back to Lionel. The smoke unit got so hot it melted the shell around the smoke stacks on the top of the locomotive..They are going to decide whether or not to repair it or just replace it with a new one. You know, the quality control that comes out of China really sucks! Just when I was getting familiar wth some of the Legacy functions, too.! I guess Murphy's Law is alive and well on my layout.
I will say, Lionel's customer service department was very cordial and their customer service manager was a hoot to have a conversation with. I guess they are doing the best they can to please their customers.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Which locomotive was this? Hopefully, I won't repeat that experience with any of mine! 

I'm not worried about melting the shell on the two steamers, it would have to get REALLY hot, but the diesels could run into that issue.


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## Fighterpilot

Gunrunner, it was the Sante Fe Warbonnet AC6000. It's on its way back to Lionel. Now without a Legacy locomotive to run on my layout, I just had to have a backup. So, I bought the Union Pacific AD70?? merger commemorative. It's skyblue and dark blue, the name of the merger r/r escapes me here at work; but I'll post a picture of it as soon as I get it programmed into my CAB 2 remote, which I'm not sure I can do again. The instructions on doing the second loco in the Cab 2 is, at best, ambiguous. I've got the Sante Fe as locomotive #1, How do I get the UP as loco #2? My plan this afternoon is to sit with the manual and the loco and the Legacy remote and try to understand the Chinese to english translation into some coherent meaning.
I have yet to see in the manual a step by step solution to any progranning procedure without have more questions when I'm done reading than I had before I started.


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## Fighterpilot

It's the Union Pacific/Missour Pacific merger commemorative SD70ACE locomotive. As soon as my wife gets back from her little trip with the camera, I'll shoot a few pictures.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Programming the locomotive is dirt simple.


Switch the RUN/PGM switch to PGM.
Power up the track.
On the CAB1, Press ENG, *##*, SET.
Power off the track.
Switch the RUN/PGM switch to RUN.

*##* is the two digit engine number.

Job done.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Got it done last week, Gunrunner. It was very easy; however, it's not how you have to do it, it's more of what you have to do that is not outlined in the manual. When you load the chip for a new locomotive, it doesn't tell you that you have to set up a new number in your Cab II or that locomotive will default to engine #1. I agree, it should be understood that you have to set up a number for each locomotive, but you have to look high and low in the manual for that information. Once done, it's simple as hell, it's just that initial hesitation to start pushing buttons on the remote and programming the locomotive for fear that you'll screw something up and never be able to get it working again without help from others. 
I've got my layout extension just about completed except for scenery. All the track is down and trains are running. I still have to get under the table and rewire the extension and while I'm under there I think I'll bring all the wires to two terminal blocks in the center of the table and then two wires from each loop back to the transformer. That might help my MTH remote commander work a little better too. It doesn't seem to work as well when I have the Legacy powered up and a loco running.
Should get some pictures in tonight..Later!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I forgot to mention the module. I normally program the locomotive number, then stick the module in and load it. It defaults to whatever the currently selected engine number is, so you want to be pointing at the engine in question.

It's hard to break anything pushing buttons on the CAB2, have at it.


----------



## Fighterpilot

I've been pushing buttons and learning. I did turn off the rear headlight when it was going backwards and couldn't get it to come back on for about 10 min. then I discovered the Aux 2 button.

Took a couple of pictures of the extension and the new locomotive. Hope you guys enjoy the photos. If they are getting to be a little much, just let me know.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Love the graphics on the new loco!  

I recommend sitting down with a glass of wine (or a beer) and reading the Legacy manual. There is a lot of stuff in there, but it's well hidden as a rule.


----------



## Fighterpilot

I've been reading the manual, a little at a time. I find the best way to retain what I've read is to have the cab in hand and actually perform the function as I read through it. I've always been a more visual learner and it helps to actually perform the function as it is described, naturally with beer (or wine) in hand. Personally, I'm more of a beer drinker.:thumbsup:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Beer is good, helps with data absorption.


----------



## wolfeinmane

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Beer is good, helps with data absorption.


And recent research says it lowers cholestorol


----------



## Fighterpilot

wolfeinmane said:


> And recent research says it lowers cholestorol


You mean all I have to do is drink more beer to lower my cholestoral!!!!
BACKSTROKE!!:thumbsup:


----------



## manchesterjim

beer, Beer, BEer, BEEr, BEER, BEER BEER BEER!!!! 

Oh wait...what the heck does THIS have to do with FP's layout thread?!?!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think we took the back door to the beer joint.


----------



## Fighterpilot

I received my Lionel Sante Fe AC6000 back from Lionel today with a new shell, a repaired smoke unit, and a new front and rear pilot with plows, which were also somewhat bent before I sent it back in for service.
That is a less than two week turnaround for their sevice department. I have to give Lionel a thumbs up on this one. Just thought I'd share some of the good news about one of our suppliers instead of something bad.
Way to go Lionel!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I was pleasantly surprised when they turned my PARR T-1 around in a couple of weeks also. It's sad to have to send so much stuff back, but at least they're trying to be responsive when they get it.


----------



## Fighterpilot

*New word*

My son is staying with me for a few days and I had my MTH Union Pacific, my Missouri Pacific SD70, and my Sante Fe AC6000, all going around the tracks at the same time (using my Legacy system and my MTH remote commander). When he walked into the shop and saw me with my remotes in hand, Micholob Ultra on the bench, and all trains running around the table, he said, "Wow, dad is having a "Trainorgasm". I thought I'd fall out..
Here is a picture of my new extension, with the new ranch house and yard lights just put in place. Still have to put down some grass and landscaping, get under the table and wire the lights and buildings, and add a few more details and I'll be satisfied (for a while anyway).


----------



## NIMT

"Trainorgasm". :laugh::laugh::laugh:
My wife calls the train forum my train porn!


----------



## tjcruiser

Extension is looking absolutely seamless, FP ... great work! Glad to hear you're having some quality running time with your son.

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looks great.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Now with the extension and a couple of new sidings, what I really need is a marshaling yard. I know exactly where I can come off the main line with a turnout. All I need to do is get rid of some more stuff in my shop and add on the L shape extension. Ah, but all in due course. Right now I've got a lot of under the table wiring to do. At my age when I come out from under the table, I feel like somebody poured concrete in all my joints.


----------



## [email protected]

FP, now you need a working flattop with arresting gear. 

You pros make my rig look silly, which is what I was going for...


----------



## Fighterpilot

It's been a while guys, but I'm still at it, all be it at a slower pace. I've got my extension pretty well finished, but I still haven't gotten under the table to wire up my flood and street lights. Planning on that soon. 
I've also been planning on adding a 72" diameter turn only circuit onto the outside of my layout by extending the table (again) 6" all the way around. This will temporarily allow me to run a large scale steam locomotive all the way around the layout before I add my L shaped extension on the lower right hand side of the board. My finished plan is to have a 72" diameter turn only loop on the outside of what is existing carrying it into a 9' x 7' extension coming off the right lower side of my existing layout. Got to sell the motorcycle first and get rid of some of the crap in the garage before I have the room for this.....but, I'm working on it.


----------



## Fighterpilot

*Layout drawing*

A couple of you guys have asked me for a copy of my layout and this is basically what I worked from. It's all sort of trial and error once you've got the design figured out, using different size tracks and curves to make it work. The attached drawing shows the layout after I extended the right side of the board about 3 feet; however, you can fit the same layout if you take out the straight tracks in the loops on the right side of the board. I hope this helps you guys..
If not, just shoot me a message or an email.








The inside loop is basically two reversing loops over lapping one another. One on ground level the other elevated (drawn in red). The outside loop is a figure 8 overlapping in the middle and going around the board again with an overlap on the left side (drawn in black). Not that difficult, but it looks a lot better than having the trains simply go around an oval or simple figure 8.


----------



## SouthernGent

FP,
Good to hear from you again. I need to get together with you. I have a copy made just for you of the Tribute to Veteerans". For all the railfans who enjoy FP posts. He volunteered to fly in a pprogram for the State's Veterans home and for all Veterans who came out to watch WWI, WWII. Korea, VietNam and current day Radio Control aircraft fly for the Vet's. We fed them and thanked them for their service to our Country. Fighter Pilot(FP) help to fill a void by Flying a big beautiful P-51D Mustang (Blue Nose) so close to the ground he was trimming the gras field with his prop blades. He is as skilled in Rail Roading as he his a skilled Pilot. Talented Guy! Thanks FP

SouthernGent


----------



## Toot_Toot

SouthernGent said:


> F I have a copy made just for you of the Tribute to Veteerans". For all the railfans who enjoy FP posts. He volunteered to fly in a pprogram for the State's Veterans home and for all Veterans who came out to watch WWI, WWII. Korea, VietNam and current day Radio Control aircraft fly for the Vet's.


Is this a video of RC warbirds being flown? I'd be interested in a DVD like that if it's available for purchase.


----------



## Toot_Toot

FP,

Thank you for posting your track plan. All of your layout looks really great!

A few questions...

If your outside curves are in descending curve radii- O72, O60, and O48,

-What size are your switches? Are they all one size or do they vary?

-Are they all Fastrack switches or have you integrated another solution through adapter pieces and other manufacturers switches?

-When you transitioned to Legacy control did you leave the switches as they were originally operated or did you convert them to digital control and if so, which approach did you take there?

Thank you for a great build log!


----------



## Fighterpilot

I think the 4 switches connecting the outer loop to the inner loop are 72" switches. Some of the others are 60". I don't believe I used anything less than a 60" switch. When I transitioned to Legacy, I just connected my base unit to the outside (ground) track at one location on the outer loop and that was it. One of the guys on this forum said that the Legacy signal is like a fart in church, it permeates the entire layout. I can run my transformer controlled MTH engine on the inside loop, while at the same time run my Lionel Legacy locomotives on the outside loop, I can also stop the MTH on the inside loop, put it in neutral, push the transformer voltage up to about 18 volts and run my Legacy locomotive into and out of the inner loop.
As for the switches, they are all Lionel Fastrack switches. I left them controlled by the wired switch control and brought all the switch wires and controls back to the location of my ZW transformer.
Toot-Toot, somewhere in this thread, sort of near the beginning, I think, is a picture of me and my Corsair. The Mustang that Southern Gent is talking about is about the same size.
Thanks Gent for the compliments, you flatter me. I haven't heard from you in a while, so give me a call and come on by the shop. I'll tell you about my expansion plans and maybe you can help me sell my motorcycle.
I'll see if I can post a picture of the Mustang you are talking about.


----------



## SouthernGent

Hey Toot Toot,
The DVD isn't for sale but were given to all R/C pilots who flew for the Veterans Program. It is helded at the Bonnet Carre Spillway in Norco, LA on the 16 Mar 2013. It starts at 11am till 1pm all pilots are requested to be their earlier. Maybe FP could make you a copy?


----------



## SouthernGent

Fighter Pilot,
I will give you a call Thursday in the day time. I might had someone who maybe intrested in buying your bike. Later Oh! your MTH engine, what is it? Union Pacific?


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Great to have you checking back in. So many of us here have enjoyed -- and been in awe of -- your layout build. Always a blast to see your handiwork. Do keep us posted!

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Gent, the Union Pacific SD70AC is an MTH Railking locomotive. I run it on conventional transformer control. I really like the MTH locomotive and the sounds and smoke it produces, just haven't gotten into their command control system yet. The Legacy from Lionel is so easy to operate and set up, I don't have much incentive to add the MTH.

Thanks, TJ. I'll be posting some pictures of the table extension and maybe even a picture of the proposed L extension and the track layout for that. It's all still going around in my head, so no telling what might come out by the time I'm done. And to think I thought I was almost done.....


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## Toot_Toot

SouthernGent said:


> Hey Toot Toot,
> The DVD isn't for sale but were given to all R/C pilots who flew for the Veterans Program. It is helded at the Bonnet Carre Spillway in Norco, LA on the 16 Mar 2013. It starts at 11am till 1pm all pilots are requested to be their earlier. Maybe FP could make you a copy?



That's cool, I understand. The only thing I've flown myself is a kite but it sure looks like a lot of fun.


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## Fighterpilot

A couple of you guys have asked me about the motorcycle I have for sale. I tried posting a picture with my PM replies without any success; so, I'll just put one here. If you need anymore info or additional pictures, let me have your email address and I'll send them to you via that method.


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## dablaze

Hey Fighterpilot,

Thanks for posting that. I showed it to my wife and although she loves the colour, she has pretty much decided to go back to a Harley. (She was riding a Triumph this past season) I think she has her mind set on a Roadking now.

Craig


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## Fighterpilot

One thing I've often said is that my biike has the best of both worlds, it looks like a Harley but runs like a Yamaha. I can stand a nickle on edge while the bike is at idle and it will not fall over. Good luck on your Harley purchase, they make some beautiful motorcycles.


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## Fighterpilot

*Happy New Year to all my train buddies. 
*


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## Fighterpilot

*Nightime in Williamsburg*

I finally got the determination to get under my train board and wire up my spur lighting and my street lighting. Here are a couple of pictures. If you don't here from me in this thread tomorrow, it's because I twisted myself into a pretzel and I couldn't get out of bed tomorrow.


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## tjcruiser

It's OK, FP ... must of us like pretzels!

Lighting looks great!

TJ


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## Toot_Toot

It just gets better and better....


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## Rusty

Nice looking layout


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## Fighterpilot

With the expansion in mind, today I ordered the Lionel Legacy 2-8-8-4 EM-1 locomotive. I'm sure it will motivate me to get the expansion done quicker and to get off of dead center and see what I can get for a few of my R/C aircraft. I'll post some pictures when it comes in and I get her on the rails (even though it won't make it all the way around my layout as it stands due to having some 048 curves in the main line). My current outer loop has 072 curves on one end so I'll be able to run her half way around the layout.


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## Fighterpilot

*Phase 3 expansion*

Guys, I started today adding 5" all the way around the board. It will give me room to place an outside loop all the way around the board with at least a 072 curves. Since the outside loop on the right side of my layout is already a 072 curve, I'll probably have to add some 1/2 straight tracts between each of the 072 curved track in order to make the outside curve larger than 072. I guess I could purchase Lionel's 084" curves for the outside track and accomplish the same thing. Here are some pictures of the extension framework as it is added to the existing board


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## gunrunnerjohn

That RR has really grown, you've been busy!


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## tjcruiser

FP,

John's right ... you're layout keeps growing and growing and growing!

I like your "box beam" extension framing ... simple, but appropriate.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Thanks guys. Yes TJ, the box beam was the easiet way to add 5" all the way around the layout. I have created myself a problem and more work because on the left side of the layout, in order for the curve to fit inside of the 5" extension, I'm going to have to undercut my mountain on the left two corners and redo the portal for the new ouside rail and the one that is currently the outside rail. Oh well, break out the keyhole saw and start cutting everything that's in the way. One good thing about the paper mache scenery is that if you cut it away, you can always build it back in and no one is ever the wiser. Fortunately, I won't have to move any of my existing track, unless I want to add a couple of switches so that my smaller locomotives could turn out onto the new outer loop. Got to give that some thought, switches ain't cheap. Matter of fact, there isn't any of this stuff that's cheap. I don't even want to think about how much I now have tied up in this railroad; but, it's been a blast and it keeps me thinking and busy.


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## tjcruiser

Any way to add another addition on the left side of the layout table which would allow you to have the beginning of the new-outermost track turn pushed further to the left ... perhaps enough to allow you to leave the two existing portals intact???

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

TJ, that would mean either having to make the table longer (I'm at about my limit now) or, make the table deeper on the left side and swing the track to the left before making the right turn. It's a thought and I'll look at it. I'm not too upset about having to redo the outer portal though. I think it would look good to have a double entry portal for the outside two rails with the single entry portal for my inside loop. The wall between the inside and outside portal will remain, the only thing I think I'll need to do is remove and replace the outer portal with one I make with a double opening and then carry my mountain over the new outside loop on that side of the board. I can make that an 084" turn so it will parallel my existing outer loop and bring both into the tunnel, around the left side of the board and back up the other side on the new 5" extension.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Sounds like a great plan to me! I like the double-portal idea. I'm glued to the edge of my seat!

TJ


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## raleets

FP,
You're going down the same road as I a little over a year ago when I added on to my original 4'X8' layout..........4 feet on one end, 2 feet on the other end, and 1 foot on each side. Voila! The 4X8 suddenly became 10X10.
BTW, I've trained my feeble mind not to even think about the coin in that 100 square feet of real estate! :laugh: hwell:
Bob


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## tjcruiser

Yeah, Bob ... but you're the King. You can tax the residents! 

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

This is what the current layout will be. I may put a couple of switches in the two outer loops to make a crossover. I couldn't bring the big steamer into the inside loop, but I could run any of my diesels onto the outside loop. I got phase 4 in the planning stage for when I get the garage cleaned out and I can add the L to the lower right side of the layout. Still don't know what that's going to look like yet. Any ideas from you guys would be a great help in getting the think tank going.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I see you're already planning ahead.


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## Fighterpilot

Yep, I can see the day coming when I'm not going to be satisfied just running my EM-1 Steamer on just that outside loop. The L extention is inevitable, I just don't know how soon. 

Gunrunner, I like your signature. There was an old Louisiana politician that used to say, " Never stand around and argue with an ***---- for too long, after a while bystanders might not be able to tell the difference". Sort of reflects the same meaning.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, and the saying is oh so true!


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## tjcruiser

FP,

I think your plan is well on track, if you install a pair of crossovers for those outer loops. Give you good fleet flexibility, without overly-complicated track layout.

As for the future L ... well ... sweet dreams my friend ... sweet dreams!

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Yep, TJ, I do not have a lack of track on my layout. I may have over done it; however, with this outer loop, there will be three separate loops on which trains can run without me having to pay attention to keep them from running into one another. My current thinking on the L extension is to keep it relatively simple with maybe a large lake, a dock, oil storage tanks, and sidings. It could also be used as a reversing loop for the outer most track. I'll take a picture of that drawing and post it so you can let me know what you think. Phase 4 will be at least 6 months down the road, however. Will take a while to finish phase 3, especially with the work I've made for myself at the tunnel and mountain. Will post pictures as the progress continues.
Hell, if I run out of money in my retirement account, I can always sell the switches I have in this layout. Man, those things are ridculously expensive and I'm looking at the possibility of adding anywhere from 4 to 6 depending on what I finally decide on.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Hopefully, the clowns in DC will solve some of the fiscal issues and the stock market will keep a steady course. If so, I'll still have train money.


----------



## Fighterpilot

*2-8-8-4 EM-1 Steam locomotive*

Received the new locomotive today and it is everything I had hoped for. It is one massive steam locomotive with very realistic smoke, whistle, and chuff sounds. The steam effect when you blow the whistle is really a nice touch. The smoke unit on this thing will run you out of the shop if you leave it on, but it looks great and the temptation is to do just that.
Here are a few pictures.


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## Rusty

Nice looking locomotive.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Those are great locomotives, I have my eye on one as well. One of these days...  Good luck with it.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

That big steamer is gorgeous! Tons of detail. Massive looking power. She'll cruise 'round that new outer loop in great style!

TJ


----------



## eljefe

That is a monster! What minimum curves does it require? O54?


----------



## Fighterpilot

Requires 072 curves. Will not make it around a 060 without forcing the front truck off the track. This is a hunk of iron and it's the reason I'm adding the outer 072" loop. I tried running it through a crossover with two 072" switches (fastrack) and it shorted out one of the drive wheels on the center track at the switch, so I'll have to try that again to see if it was a one time happening or it just doesn't like going through that cross over. It looks awesome running up one side of my layout through my only 072" curve and then up the other side. Then I have to back it down. My outer loop will be done this week. I finished all the H beams around the layout today. Plywood foam and cork are getting put down tomorrow and Monday. Track on Tuesday, Lord willing and the creek dow't rise (down here in Louisiana it's always a possibility the bayou will rise).


----------



## Fighterpilot

*Destruction*

Broke out the filet knife and hacksaw blade last week in preparation of getting down some new track. I cut off the mountain on the front right side of the board and hacked off the top of the hill on the left rear portion of the layout. I'll post some pictures of the destruction at the tunnel portals on the left front. 
New track is all down but I haven't taken any pictures of that yet. Will do today. Some of this is fun; but, putting down ballast and track is like "been there done that already" type of work. The results is gratifying though, so it keeps me motivated.


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## tjcruiser

Two steps forward; one step back. That's the model RR game!

What's your table buildup? Ply, 1" foam, cork, or something like that???

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

TJ, table top is 1/2" ply with 3/4" pink foam isulation board on top of that, with 1/4" luan ply on top of the foam. Whole board is covered with 1/4" cork.
Very quiet board. Sound does not resonate off of it at all.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, FP.

I'll bet you make an awesome turkey club sandwich, too! :thumbsup:

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Now that was funny!! I wanted the top 1/4" luan because I wanted to make my lifts by the cookie cutter method and I didn't want to cut the 1/2 plywood top. I guess I could have left off the 3/4" pink foam board, but it made it easy to cut the 1/4" luan with the jig saw blade plunging into the foam rather than trying to cut the 1/4" ply with it laying directly on the 1/2" stuff. It just made it very easy to cut in place, lift and brace the luan and cork where desired. You can see what I did in some of the very early pictures of the layout being cut out.


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## Fighterpilot

For any of you guys that are out there and think this is hard, all you have to do is dive in. Nothing can't be done that cannot be undone, or done over again...Hmmmm, did that make sense? Here is my hill that I cut off and moved to the new corner 6" right and 6" closer. I also made another portal from the pink foam and put in on the outer rail over by my mountain tunnel. Will have to extend the mountain to the corner, but it's coming along. I got all the track down and ballasted with the pigeon grit except for about 3 feet, so it's back to the feed store for another pound of pigeon grit. I also got my road crossing out over the new tracks done. I think I'm going to redo the inner crossing so that it goes straight across, just not installing any additional culvert pipe.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

That 3-portal tunnel work looks superb. Great depth / realism there!

Refresh my memory ... what are you using for roadbed over the culverts?

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

The tunnel portals do look great, that's some nice work!


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## Fighterpilot

Got to love that pink foam board. I cut it 5" wide then set up my fence on my bandsaw and cut the 5" wide pieces like you would slice ham on a meat slicer. I cut the foam about 3/32" thick. Got to watch your fingers when the full thickness piece starts getting narrow. The saw blade leaves these little striations in the foam which gives the roadway a textured look. If it's too textured for your taste, just sand it a little. Then paint it flat black with an acrylic waterbased paint.


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## tjcruiser

Ohh ... foam roadway ... I had forgotten that trick of yours. Looks great!

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

I'm thinking of doing a winding road on the side of my mountain at the left side of the board. Any suggestions on how to make a winding road. I don't even want to think about trying to cut that out of pink foam. I was thinking of putting a layer of pink foam about three quarters of the way up the mountain, then just painting a winding road on the foam, and then building the rest of the mountian on the pink foam, leaving the area where the road is alone. The mountain could rise on one side of the road and be decending on the other side. I've got to think about that a bit. I didn't want the road to be parallel to the top of the board. I want a slight rise or fall in it. What do you guys think? I'd like to put a couple of 18 wheelers on the road and run it parallel to the track for a couple of feet. When I get closer to having to make a decision, I'll post some pictures of that end of the board so you can see what I'm thinking about.
Later guys!
Oh, I almost forgot. Where do you get small light fixtures to put in buildings that you want to illuminate? I glued a trailer side light in the top of my factory and covered the windows with toilet paper on the inside. When you turn the light on the windows emit a nice glow but you can't see inside the empty building. I know there has to be a better way than a trailer side light.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

You could make a winding road out of plaster, poured into edge/curb boundary molds. Let cure, a light top sanding, paint.

Here's a WS vid on their method ...

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/video/roadsystem

Lots of other options, though. WS is not the only player in this game.

I'm hoping some of our LED gurus chime in with their building lighting tips. Seems to me you have lots of possibilities there ... a bridge-rectifier to convert AC to DC, resistor to drop voltage, LED's, etc. (Not that I know what I'm talking about here ... check out our LED threads all over the forum.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Finished up the new mountain over the 3rd rail today. Got some paint on it and a little grass. Will wait until tomorrow to get some bushes put in. Here is the 90 % finished product. I also removed and replaced the inside track crossing. It just looks better with both of the crossings staying at the same level over the tracks and not having one go back down to the board level.


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## tjcruiser

Your triple portal is looking wonderful, FP!

Any thought to packing in that left-most tunnel with some black foam walls to darken up the "cave" a bit?

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

That is a great looking portal, good stuff! Good idea TJ has, that would make it "dark" in there.


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## Fighterpilot

Thought of doing just that; but, have the corner still open so I'm going to wait to see how dark it gets when I close the corner up. Also, on the back side of the tunnel, I've got more mountain to build and place outside of the upper most track on the left. So, it's too bright in there, I'll paint some foam flat black and stick it in there. Good suggestion!


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## tjcruiser

I'm always more than happy to not shed light on anyone's project thread!

Wink wink ...

TJ


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## joed2323

You can find the bigger scuff pads at any home improvement store. All you need to do is paint one black and fold it over itself to make a semi circle and hot glue it to the inside of the portal
When you look in after this is installed it looks like a black tunnel... looks very believable


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## tjcruiser

I like like that idea, Joe. Duly noted for future reference!

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

I can slice some pink foam into about 1/8" thick stips about 5" wide. Paint them flat black, fold them in and arc, and glue in place. Sounds like a plan. Will take pictures and post here tonight. You really don't need a top inside that tunnel, just walls high enough to go above line of sight. I might just make some pink foam walls, paint flat black and glue in place. If anybody gets that close to getting their eye inside my tunnel in order to see the ceiling, they will have to be bent way over, putting their rear in a great position for me to apply a boot.


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## tjcruiser

Agreed ... it's more of a light thing than a shape thing, I think. At least after the first inch or two of tunnel depth.


----------



## Fighterpilot

I actually have a piece of pink foam in the tunnel, which I'll paint either black or the dark brown that I have as a base. If it is still too noticable from the entrance, I'll add another piece painted the same dark color. You are absolutely correct TJ, if it were darker in there it wouldn't matter; however, the tunnel is rather short so I am getting light in from the other side. You advise will be taken. I was guilty of cutting a corner;but, as you know when you start doing that you start compromising the overall results of all your work. Thanks for the constructive criticism. Many of the things you guys have recommended have come in very handy in getting to the point that I am now. All your comments are always welcomed.


----------



## Fighterpilot

I got the left rear side of the board roughed in for my tunnel and I'm trying to make up my mind what to do on top. One thing I thought about is to leave it relatively level, like a plateau, roll the ground a bit, and maybe put a stream up there coming in from the rear and running off the side near my mountain. The other thing would be to just put a mountain side there (would probably be the easiest). If I hold the stream fairly close to the drop off to the tracks, I could place a small hillside behind the stream. Attached are some pictures so you can see what I'm talking about. You artist out there let me know what you think. Bear in mind, I've never built a stream before.


----------



## tjcruiser

Judging by the quality of your other work, I think that's going to be one happy stream.

I like the mountain side idea ... more height for visual perspective.

Hey, do you get the rough edges of the foam simply by torching it? Clever idea. Do tell.

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

Yes, TJ, judicious application of flame from a propane torch. Leave it too long on any one spot and it will go up in flames. You sort of paint with the flame on the edge of the foam. Change angles for different effects. I'm toying with the thought of burning the creek or stream bed out with a torch. Will have to practice on a piece of scrap to see how it works. Should give the appearance of a rocky and rough bottom. Let you know how that works out.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I've never thought of doing that, but I use a heat gun to "seal" foam that I cut, I'm talking about the white stuff that tosses out little pieces when you cut it.


----------



## Fighterpilot

It works pretty well GRJ, and gives a nice affect to the edge. I would think that if you had adequate ventilation, you could burn in a whole hillside. I did each piece outside and brought it in to glue it in layers. The fumes are pretty noxous.


----------



## tjcruiser

Thanks, FP ... method duly noted and filed away on my end. I like the "jagged rock edge" results.

(And, yup ... definitely an _outdoor_ activity!)

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

Well, like my dad used to tell me, nothing worth having is hardly ever attained easily. So, I decided to go with the mountian stream on the left rear of my layout (yep, it would have been a lot easier to just put in a mountain). I started with the formation of the mountain in the rear and a slight ridge on the low side. These will form the two sides of my stream. I'm still thinking of how I'm going to pour my realistic water because the stream bed is not level. I'm hoping it all doesn't run to the low end before setting up. If any of you guys have experience or a suggestion of how to pour the realistic water, let me know. I'm just going to put in the stream with a little pond in the back, but eventually I might make a waterfall coming off that low section of hill in the back.
Did a little photo shop work on the last picture to get a better idea of what it might look like when it's done. Don't plan on having the water that blue. This was just a quick try at seeing what it might look like.


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

I love the topgraphy of the hill and stream ... looks great in that corner. That said, I'm surprised to see your light tower there, too. I've been watching the Super Bowl, offering my live, vocal armchair commentary. So I do hope you'll excuse my extending that over-excitement here, perhaps ... but the light tower base, at least, looks rather low / close to the stream. Maybe bump it up on a raised outcropping or man-made plinth, or move it elsewhere?

(Sorry ... I've been screamin' at my TV, and am getting carried away here a bit too much, I think!)

 

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

Yea, TJ, you nailed it. The light tower just somehow doesn't look right at that location. I think I'll continue the taper of the mountain into the lower section where the light tower currently is standing and move the light tower closer to the front of the board, placed somewhere after I turn the stream off of the board. Probably somewhere next to the front hill. Always good to get a second opinion. You confirmed my doubts. Thanks! Then again, it might not look good there either, so it'll have to find a new home or wait on Phase 4


----------



## Fighterpilot

Ok, guys, now is the time to give me some good advise. I have no idea what colors to blend to make the bottom of my stream look like a typical mountian stream. I'll put some grass along the edges, some rocks in and about, and maybe a water fall down at the big end (depends on how ambitious I feel); but, how do I paint the bottom. Right now it's just the basic brown that I painted the entire board with, some burnt umber and gray blended in. Now, I'm stuck! Seeing color has never been one of my strong points. I know one of you artist out there could do this blindfolded, so give me some advise. Thanks!


----------



## N scale catastrophe

Take your original color and blend in a little black in a new pallet space, then take your new color and add a little more black in another new space, repeat until you have various shades from your brown to almost completely black (also good to mix a little with white going to the lighter end so you have highlights as well). Then all you have to do is put the darkest shade in the deepest part and work out from their using lighter shades as you get closer to the banks and high spots in your stream. 

Nice thing is if you don't like it you just paint over and start again.:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

We had a member here just the other day (though I forget who) who posted their stream ... they had an actual brownish-gravel stream bed, with some epoxy-type "water" on top. It was very convincing. Many small streams (in real life) have a rocky/gravely bottom, rather than a smooth / sediment bottom.

Maybe use some fish-tank small-size gravel or something like that?

I'll see if I can find that post/thread.

TJ

Edit --

Found it ... see stream pic in the middle of this post ... per AussieNscale84

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=190203&postcount=41


----------



## Fighterpilot

Thanks guys, I was looking for the type of stream that typically flows in the mountains, where you can usually see the bottom, rock, logs, etc. Catastophe, I made a pond using your method of going from light to dark and it was very effective. I added some deep blue to black, going from light tan along the shore. It's only about 1/4" deep but after I put the realistic water in there it looks like a very deep pond. I was pleased with the results (there is a picture of it somewhere in my thread) I guess I'll just experiment with various shades of brown, gray, burnt umber, and black, using lighter tan along the bank and see what happens. I also plan to find some rocks to place in the water and simulate the water running around the rocks with Woodland Scenics water effects. 
TJ, that stream with the gravel in the bottom was sort of what I was thinking of doing, but that on didn't get my blood pumping. I guess I'll just go for it and like Catastophe said, you can always just paint over it and start again. I think I'll search You Tube for some hints and pointers as well.


----------



## billshoff

I've learned so much from this thread. Hope I can do as well when I start on my scenery. I'm still playing with track plans at this point. Thanks for all the photos!


----------



## Fighterpilot

Billshoff, like your track plan. I would, however, try to find the room to put in at least another 048" turn on the lower end of your layout. After doing all the work, and committing to the hobby, you will probably want to expand and purchase bigger locomotives later on. Some of them will look funny going around the 036" turns. My smallest turns are 048" and I wish I would have designed it to have minimun 060" turns. My latest purchase, a Lionel EM-1, 2-8-8-4 made is necessary for me to put an additional loop around the outside using only 072" curves.

Hoping somebody will benefit from my trial and error construction of this layout is the main reason I post the narative and pictures that I do.When I was building large scale R/C aircraft many scale builders would frequent a site called RCScalebuilders.com. There was a wealth of talent on that site and I learned an awful lot from guys that had much more experience than I did. I would in turn pass my ideas along and every once in a while it might be a good one. Trying to do the same thing on this model railroad site.

Now for my stream and bottom. I guess I just dove in tonight and did what I thought would look good. I figured I could always tear it out and do it again if it didn't look right. Attached are pictures of my first attempt and I'm fairly satisfied. I haven't yet added the water (going to use Envirotex-lite) Waiting for glue and paint to dry. Reason for using the Envirotex-lite is because it's a lot thicker than Realistic Water and my river is lower on one end than on the other so I don't want all my water to run to the deep end, leaving the higher and more shallow end dry. I made a dam using Water Effects from Woodland Scenics, hope it's dry by tomorrow. 

I was wondering what to do with the edges of my stream. I needed some pigeon grit to finish adding the ballast to the outside of my fastrack. I bought some in a box, thinking it was the same gray stuff that I'd been using. When I opened the box, it was brown and white instead of gray. I was mad because I screwed up, then I thought it might look good along the banks of the river. Tried it out and it created a pretty nice affect, at least I think so, so I sort of accidently came up with the brown, light brown, and white pigeon grit for the river banks. Once everything is dry, I'll add the Envirotex, with a little blue dye in it, and see how it looks with the water in place. I painted the bottom as you see in the pictures, making the top, where the pond is, darker so it will look deeper. Just added some thinned out black and blended it into the brown tones that flow father down stream.

Here are a couple of pictures of it now, before the water is added. You can see the Water Effects is still wet where I made my dam to stop the rest of the stuff from running off the table. Hope I don't have any leaks anywhere. That could be messy.


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

Nice job on the rocky river edge. Looks great. And that waterfall ... Wow! ... first time I'm seeing that ... EXCELLENT! Did you use the "silcone glue on wax paper" method that we saw in a how-to vid here a while back?

I think you need to start working on a guy with a fishing pole, too!!!

Nice work!

TJ


----------



## billshoff

FP, unfortunately I don't have room for wider curves. I built a 8'x16' room in my attic and I was limited by the width of the truss. Changing the truss would require a structural engineer and a contractor, so I'm going to be happy with what I have and what I can afford.


----------



## Fighterpilot

TJ, the dam that looks like a water fall will hopefully dry clear in time. It is the Woodland Scenic water effects product. The pour of the river will be behind it and up to the top of the mountian where I have a small pond. My planned waterfall will be from the top of the mountain on the backside into the pond. I'll do that after the dam dries and I can get the river poured with envirotec-lite. The dam going into a shallow water fall was sort of an accident, in that I ddin't know what else to do there to dam up the river to hold my river pour from running off the end of the table.

Billshoff, you might think about a folding shelf across the door that you can lift in order to gain entrance and exit to your little room. You could then make your layout a horseshoe shape and put in a larger radius curve. Just a thought. That room is going to be a very nice little hideaway to enjoy your train and an adult beverage in the evenings. I like it! Plan for a small refrigerator under the train board.


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

Ok ... I see what your doing with the dam, now. That said, mabye consider having some water spill over the top of the dam, like often happens in real life. I think having the effect of water spilling over the edge of the layout would really help to grab the view, and entice him into the scene. Something reaching out to grab his attention, in a way ...

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

Well, I bit the bullet this morning and mixed up my Envirotex-Lite and poured my stream. I was afraid that because the bottom of the stream was not level, that all the liquid would flow to the deep end. That in fact did happen, however, the stuff is thick enough that it coats the bottom of the shallow end and it still looks like it's full of water. I hope now the deep end cures properly. Pictures attached.

I'm going to drop a small water fall off the low spot in the mountain right around the center of the pond. I've used Woodland Water Effects to make the fall. It's now drying on a piece of wax paper and I will cut it to fit when cured.


----------



## N scale catastrophe

Looks great! Can't wait to see the waterfall in place.


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## Fighterpilot

I may be too old to continue by the time that stuff dries. Looks so quick and easy on the Woodland Scenics video; but, they don't tell you it takes a lifetime for that stuff to dry. Maybe I put it down too thick. Didn't want it to be paper thin though. Hope my patience holds out..not my strong point.


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

Re: the stream ... one word: FABULOUS!

I hope it continues to dry OK.

TJ


----------



## JPIII

I too am building a creek. I won't add water till I have either found a solution to or exhausted the the possibilities for stopping capillary action......"water" creeping up out of the channel. 

Your pics aren't close up enough to tell if you have the problem.
I've heard of one possibility but have done no testing......yeah, I'm a fussy SOB.


----------



## Fighterpilot

There was absolutely no capillary action of the water migrating upward into any of the scenery. I did seal the bottom with spackling and was able to form some contours in the bottom with the spackling, rather than just have a flat bottom. The product I used is Envirotex-Lite. It's an epoxy based polymer that chemically cures rather than air dries. The larger end of my stream is about 1" below the smaller end so I was worried about all the product running to the low end. The Envirotex-Lite did migrate to the low end, but not that quickly and it left enough product on the high end to still give the effect of water. I have no issues with it's curing either. Didn't crinkle up or bubble. Read the instructions fully and you will be satisfied. I only used about 8 to 9 oz. of product to complete my pour. If you want a close up, stand by, I'll shoot a couple of close up pics for you. By the way, running water does not always stay within the same confines of the back. It does wet some areas that are not actually in the stream. I did not have any issues with the product climbing up the side walls however.


----------



## Ranger

Looks Great!


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## BK R

Looks great mate.


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## Fighterpilot

JPIII, attached is a closeup of the side of the stream. I'll post some additional pictures and try to keep the resolution as high as possible for you and still get them to upload. Hope this helps you out.


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## Ranger

That is some very nice detail work on the stream. It's hard to tell whether it's real or a model.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The stream looks wet and real, great work!


----------



## IlliniViking

Love that stream. Very good work, so realistic.:thumbsup:


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## Fighterpilot

Thanks guys, I do appreciate the comments. It's nice to have your efforts recognized by those that understand and respect the hobby. I won't lie, the recognition that you guys give me here adds that little extra incentive to strive for excellence. Self satisfaction has always been my prime motivator and do the best that I can do in almost anything I try. I think the secret is not to be finished too early in the process. There is usually one more step you can take to make it a little better (going to try some water effects to give the impression of the river flowing around the rocks and woodfall). When you can't think of anything else to do to improve it, that's when you're done. This has been a learning process, so I'm adding some of the things I learn along the way to the layout. I guess that's why they say you are really never finished. 
Thanks again guys... not a whole lot left to post until I finish the water effect and then try to get Phase IV going sometime in the hopefully not too distant future.:thumbsup:
Got a good picture of my EM-1. I'm including for your viewing enjoyment. Love this locomotive. Brings back memories of my youth.


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## JPIII

I've seen 1/4 inch of creep or more in pics on the net. Yours is "not that bad". Keep them pics coming.


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## Fighterpilot

I guess "not that bad" is good.. Hope you find something that works for you.


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## JPIII

Some of my old street racin' verbal lines don't translate well to the net.
It does mean good, but outright praise was un-cool. I could have used "bitchin". I guess.......


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## Fighterpilot

JPII, I didn't take offense at your comment. I sometimes have the same problem in that I'm a kidder and it doesn't always come across as funny when writing in forums such as this. I'm too old to appreciate "bitchin". 

I stuck the waterfall in place and am fairly satisfied with it so far. I do need to make some waves at the base and give the stream some movement with the water effects. One thing I can tell you guys not to do is to use wax paper when forming your water fall. It stuck to the back of the water effects product and gave it a cloudy look. I had to paint some realistic water on the front side to shine it up a bit. I might do another one on some waxed glass; but, this one will do in the mean time.


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## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> Got a good picture of my EM-1. I'm including for your viewing enjoyment. Love this locomotive. Brings back memories of my youth.


C'mon, FP ... you're not THAT old! 

(In spirit, at least! :thumbsup

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

TJ, got a fisherman in the river already. See what you started. I hope the word doesn't get out that this stream is productive, I'll have guys climbing all over my mountain .

I also thought a little ditch with some water in it between the two outside set of tracks might look pretty neat, so I started to work on that. I added the water tonight and will see what it looks like in the morning. This time I used Realistic Water from Woodland Scenics, like I did on my first pond. I want to use it before it goes bad in the bottle. I know it must have a shelf life once it's opened. My epoxy Envirotex Lite will last longer in it's two part state.


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## broox

love that fisherman!


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## Ranger

Looks great!!


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## Toot_Toot

Totally great, FP!! Please keep up the pictures and updates!


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## gunrunnerjohn

That looks great. I love the three tunnel entrances like that, very impressive.


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## Fighterpilot

Thanks guys, I do appreciate the comments. Nothing like a couple of "attaboys" to stimulate the motivation. I got the rest of the ditch finished up to my street crossing and poured in the Realistic Water this afternoon. Waiting for it to dry. Will post a couple of pictures of that once the cloudiness dries out of the stuff.
The way the 3 tunnels turned out was sort of an act of fate. I added the outside loop and needed to extend the mountain. If you look at some of the early pictures of the double tunnel entrance, all I did was take that outside wall, cut a couple of inches off the top, then cut it downward from the top and turn it inward so it would be parallel to the outside curve. Then I built a new wall on the outside of the 3rd and added portal. The fact that it looks good was an accident of necessity. I didn't know how else to bring my new outside loop around and under the mountain.
I need to make about a 3/4" drain grate to put at the right side of my ditch (I mean all that water has to go somewhere) I've looked around my collection of parts and pieces collected over the years for something that looks like a catch basin or drain grate but I can't come up with anything.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, sometimes accidents are a good thing.  However it came to be, I really like the look. I see you made the entrance darker too, looks more realistic.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Yep, I painted some of that pink foam inside either flat black or dark brown, don't remember which, but it darkened it up inside the tunnel. It also helped when I closed the top and back side which didn't let any more light it.
Well tomorrow I've got a cowboy action shoot, so I'll be blasting away until about noon, then I'm stopping on the way home, in Ponchatoula, La. at the Train Depot Hobby Shop, to pick up some Standard O Scale passenger cars. Jeff at the Train Depot has a beautiful set of 8 passenger cars, slightly used, 18" long per car, for $299.00. These cars are beautiful, with 6 wheel trucks and illuminated interiors, and the soft rubber accordian passage ways between the cars. I'll pull them behind my 2-8-8-4 steamer and they should look great. Pictures to follow, for sure. Jeff has a great shop and when he acquires something at a good price through an estate sale or the like, he passes the good deals on to his customers rather than try to get top dollar for an item. I've seen the very same car for $15.00 difference in price and his comment is that the price is dependant on what he bought it for. If you keep an eye out you can come up with some really great deals.
Got lucky today too. My good friend who is having some physical problems and can't get under his table asked me if I'd come over to help him drop his switch wires under the table and reconnect the controllers. Naturally I was happy to help. When I was getting ready to leave he gave me two very nice standard O scale covered hoppers because he is modeling traditional O on a smaller board and these cars looked funny on his layout. I must be living right..... this week.


----------



## Big Ed

Looking good. :thumbsup:

The fisherman has a bamboo pole? 

Where is the fish?


----------



## Fighterpilot

I don't know Ed, I didn't want to go down there and disturb him just in case they were biting. When he finishes, if I'm still hanging around, I'll try to take notice.  Please don't tell me I have to put a reel on that pole now.


----------



## tjcruiser

FP,

Sometimes it takes me a while to write a detailed post here on the forum. I tend to babble on with descriptions / commentary.

Not the case today. This one's simple:

Superb work, FP ... superb work!

TJ


----------



## Fighterpilot

You're like me TJ. The wife says I have a tendency to talk too much. She's probably right.
I picked up my 8 passenger car set from the Train Depot this past Saturday. Pulling 8 cars around the layout is just a little too long of a train (over 12' long just the cars) so I put one on a siding and pull around 7. I don't know how much difference one car makes, but it looks better to me. 
Attached are a few pictures that I promised of the cars. I believe Lionel re-released these this year. Mine are from the 1996 Lionel catalog.
Also attached is a picture of the EM-1 that I'm pulling the passenger cars with. I know it's not politcally correct but, I'm not a purest and they look good together.


----------



## Fighterpilot

When I added the 6" all the way around the layout, the transformer and switches ended up being too far under the table to comfortably reach and use; so, not having a lot of room between the side of my layout and my workbench, I decided I'd utilize a drawer that would slide in and out. Not the most fun I've had building this layout, to say the least, but it had to get done. Also attached are a couple of pictures of my completed drainage ditch between the two main lines.


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## tjcruiser

FP,

Nice, clean job on the tranny drawer. Good use of limited space.

I like the drainage ditch / culvert under road, too. Maybe add some gravel/stone around the culvert pipes (either side, a bit between them) to make it look like they're "set in place" with something? As is, they look a bit "loose" to me.

Just tossin' top-o-my-head stuff out, as I often do! Not that my batting score is ever that good!

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Nice transformer drawer, gets them right out of the way. 

BTW, as strange as it sounds, I agree with TJ, some fill around the drainage pipes would make them look more realistic.


----------



## Fighterpilot

The fill is coming guys, I have to cut in the drainage ditch on the other side of the road yet, so I'm still having to lift the roadway up in order to cut the ditch into the cork extending it down the track. My plan is to carry the larger track ballast beneath the road and across the top of my drainage culvert pipe. You guys have a critical eye and I appreciate that. Any suggestions that you make are always considered and appreciated. I've got one for myself after viewing the pictures... paint the side of the table and the drawer dark brown.


----------



## Ranger

awesome looking as always!


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## tjcruiser

gunrunnerjohn said:


> BTW, as strange as it sounds, I agree with TJ ...


It doesn't sound strange at all ... most of the time, even I don't agree with myself !!!


----------



## Fighterpilot

I crawled under my table about 432 time today (probably won't be able to walk in the morning). Wanted to have each line coming from my ZW transformer on a separate switch. No need in letting locomotives sit on the track with the lights on when not running them and I wanted to be able to turn off each main line so my passenger cars don't sit there with all of their lights on as well. It's one of those thankless tasks that we sometimes have to perform in order to get things the way we want them. 
When I get up the courage to climb back under there, I'm going to put my streetlights and yard lights on one switch and my buildings on another. I also want to put my track signal lights on a switch so they can be turned on and off. No pictures to post. It would only be a shot of a few toggle switches lined up in a row.


----------



## Fighterpilot

I did some additional work on the layout today.


----------



## Fighterpilot

I did some additional work on the layout today, hogging out the 1/4" cork to create the rest of my drainage ditch on the other side of my road crossing. Once I pulled out the cork, I covered the bottom with a light layer of light weight spackling, then formed the sides. When All dry, will paint, add some grass and ground cover, and then add water. As the drainage ditch approches my switch on the right side of the board, I didn't know what to do with the ditch...couldn't just end without draining someplace, so widened it, turned it under the track, and will put a small girder bridge over the drainage stream.
I also filled beneath the roadway with some additional ballast. Might add more when I get ready to do the other side.

























I know, I need to make my images smaller. Will do next time. Sorry.


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## Fighterpilot

I finished up my drainage ditch on the right side of the road crossing Just need to add some additional grass and ground cover with some bushes along the bank.
Also got a new diesel locomotive, the double diesel DD35A Union Pacific. Couldn't pass up the price. You know, you could go broke saving money!


----------



## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> You know, you could go broke saving money!


:laugh:

How very true ... how very true! :thumbsup:

Excellent work on the new side rail and drainage ditch. The water surface looks superb.

Can you post a pic of the final culvert pipes at some point? (The pics in your prior post didn't come through for some reason.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

Sure TJ, here is the finished product on the left side of the road. What else do you think I could do or is that ok?


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## Fighterpilot

Sure TJ, here is the finished product on the left side of the road. What else do you think I could do or is that ok?


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## JPIII

I'd put some bushes down to the waters edge to cover up the "creep"....a little overlap would't hurt.


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## tjcruiser

Fighterpilot said:


> What else do you think I could do ...?


Sit back, relax, grab the throttle, and enjoy!!! It all looks great!


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks super!  I will agree with JPIII, a few more bushes and weeds close to the water would look like my driveway drainage ditch!


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## Fighterpilot

That's not creep, JPIII, it just rained and that's the last to dry out. You are correct and I'm in the process of doing that. Wanted to make sure the water was tack free so I don't get grass stuck in the surface. I'm looking for some different bushes too, maybe some cat-tails, to put along the edge. Will post pictures when I'm done. Thanks for the comments guys, they are always appreciated.


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## JPIII

I don't want to sound critical/negative of any-one's layout, so am hesitant to offer my *opinions*. I suppose that if I step over the line, someone will give me a shot up side my head....but I'd just as soon avoid that. 

To paraphrase a Marx brother " My opinions are mine. If you don't like em', I have others".

I have yet to finish my creek, much less to add water to it so take my opinion
for what it is worth. I am still searching for a solution the the "creep factor".


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## Fighterpilot

I think the solution to the creep factor would be to somehow seal the edges with a flat, clear sealant of some sort. That would stop the water from wicking up the sides. 

I understand about the Steam Donkey, I built and flew large scale radio control aircraft, mostly warbirds, for 20 odd years. Powered with converted chainsaw motors in the 80 to 100 cc range. The planes were anywhere from 85" to 120" wingspans and weighed from 25 to 40 plus pounds. My Corsair was my final build and I put a lot of extra time in it scaleing it out with panel lines, flush rivets, scale cocpit, etc. It has gained its share of awards at various events throughout the south. Just burned out after all that time. Got to be more work than fun with all the maintenance, repair, transporting, assembly, etc...Now I'm building trains.


----------



## raleets

Love that Corsair! My all-time favorite WWII warbird, bar none.


----------



## JPIII

I suspect you're right about "clear sealant", but which one. I seem to recall reading that Matte Medium does the trick but can't find the post again.
I need something that is idjut proof.

BTW, A fine lookin' aircraft.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Great plane, and the Corsair was my favorite WWII warbird as well. Sorry, P-51, but you're in second place.


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## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> I don't know Ed, I didn't want to go down there and disturb him just in case they were biting. When he finishes, if I'm still hanging around, I'll try to take notice.  Please don't tell me I have to put a reel on that pole now.


I never thought about a reel. :thumbsup:
It looks like it was made to simulate bamboo? 
Then a fly reel would look best. :thumbsup:



Fighterpilot said:


> You're like me TJ. The wife says I have a tendency to talk too much. She's probably right.
> I picked up my 8 passenger car set from the Train Depot this past Saturday. Pulling 8 cars around the layout is just a little too long of a train (over 12' long just the cars) so I put one on a siding and pull around 7. I don't know how much difference one car makes, but it looks better to me.
> Attached are a few pictures that I promised of the cars. I believe Lionel re-released these this year. Mine are from the 1996 Lionel catalog.
> Also attached is a picture of the EM-1 that I'm pulling the passenger cars with. I know it's not politcally correct but, I'm not a purest and they look good together.


That Willow Trail coach car, is that Lionel # 19058?
I have that set # 19060 which consists of 19056/57/58 & 59.
You say you got an eight car set? 

I would like a picture of all the passenger cars being pulled in one picture if possible. :thumbsup:


You drain pipe looks great. :thumbsup:
I will throw an ideal for you, what do you think about the right sized conduit like this for the drainage pipe? I picked up a scrap piece when they were rebuilding the office after the hurricane I am going to try it for the same thing. ( They sell a plastic type too.)










I think the ribbed outside looks just like some of the pipe they use here on the East coast. Did you ever see any drainage pipes like this out there?


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## gunrunnerjohn

Conduit is a great idea for drains, I have one under my driveway that looks just like that.


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## Fighterpilot

Yep, looks like a big piece of corrogated pipe. I've used them to hold open augered holes in our wet soil enviroment here in Louisiana, using them as a concrete form below grade. I did a lot of traffic signal installation with my electrical construction business before I retired.

Like the Mustang too, GRJ, well here's a shot for you.










But, we digress, let's get back to trains...sorry, I just went a little down memory lane..


----------



## callmeIshmael2

Aah, nice start! Scenery's getting a good start, too. Definitely my kind of layout - I mean, who needs the kitchen? Who needs to park a car? This is where the LAYOUT goes, my man. Hump the rest of it. It's train time!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Yep, all that Mustang needs is the proper four-bladed prop. 

One final airplane picture, my previous air transportation, I still miss it at times. Pretty poor picture, it was scanned from a Polaroid shot a long time ago.










OK, I guess we better get back to trains, I agree.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Nice airplane, GRJ, my good friend used to own one of those as well and he misses his a lot. It's something that gets under your skin and it takes a while for the cure to set in, if it ever really does.
The two stroke engines we used on the models did not have the low end torque to turn a 4 blade prop at the rpm's need to fly these models, so we used 2 blade props for optimum performance.

Ed, I just noticed your request for a picture of all 8 cars in my consist. Problem is with the locomotive I can't get far enough back to get all 8 cars in the picture. I only pull 7 around because the train is just too damned long for my layout with all 8 cars in the pull. I will get all 8 cars together for a picture and post it here in the near future.


----------



## Big Ed

I always have more then one question. 

And this?

Copy & paste.
That Willow Trail coach car, is that Lionel # 19058?
I have that set # 19060 which consists of 19056/57/58 & 59.
You say you got an eight car set?


----------



## Fighterpilot

OK, Ed, here is the list of passenger cars that I have. Much easier than getting a picture of all 8 cars.

1. 19056 -- Baggage car
2. 19057 -- Willow Range pullman
3. 19058 -- Willow Trail pullman
4. 19059 -- Willow Range Observation

5. 19067 -- Willow River coach
6. 19068 -- Willow Valley coach
7. 19094 -- Niagra Falls sleeper
8. 19095 -- Highland Falls sleeper

How'd I do? I got all 8 for $300.00


----------



## Big Ed

OK, now I see.

That is an excellent price can't beat that.
You got all the boxes too?

One day take pictures of the 4 I don't have when you get the chance.
I have the first four.

Are they the same paint scheme?

That is a good price. :thumbsup:


----------



## Fighterpilot

Yes, Ed, they are all the same paint scheme, the only difference being the names on the sides of the cars, ie: Willow Valley, Niagra Falls, etc. I'll get you a picture of the last 4 cars.

The rear couple on the back of my new DD35A will not open. It makes the sound like it's opening; however, it will not let go. Is that a very difficult fix or something very easy to do? I guess I'll have to determine first if something is just stuck or if the moving mechanism is just not working. How hard to take the truck off the locomotive and examine for the problem?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Before you take the truck off, do a couple of things. Take a slim rod, like a straightened paperclip. and slide it in beside the knuckle to activate the mechanism. It's just a plunger that the electromagnet pulls in and unlatches the knuckle. It should slide in freely with no binding of any kind. Holding that in with the rod, you should be able to freely move the knuckle, and the spring should pop it open.

If the spring is broken, you can replace them, and you don't have to take the truck off. You will have to remove the knuckle rivet and install a new one. If there is binding inside the plunger, my first step would be to flush it with something like CRC or contact cleaner. You should also lube the action with graphite as well.

I also find that electrocouplers on some locomotives won't fire properly at less than 17-18 volts track voltage. If you're running less than that, that may be the issue.

A new coupler is cheap, and the trucks of most diesels come off pretty easily, but I'm not 100% sure of that one. You will have to remove the shell to remove the truck.


----------



## Fighterpilot

GRJ, after my last post and the reading of yours, I went out into the shop to check out the rear coupler. Magic, just like taking kids to the doctor, when you get ready to go, there is a miraculous cure. Same with the coupler. It worked just fine. I will oil it with some oil form Lionel to make sure it stays free and operational. Will keep your advise in mind the next time it happens.


----------



## santafe158

Here's a plane photo for you 










It's my dad's stepdad's plane, a 1950's Beechcraft Bonanza "V-Tail". Can't remember exactly what year it is.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Ed, here are a couple of pictures of the cars you requested...Willow River, Willow Valley, Niagra Falls, Highland Falls.


----------



## Big Ed

They do look like the same car.
They are just missing the NYC, replaced with Pullman.
I wonder if they are from the same mold?

Thanks, now that I think of it I might have 2 of those that I won in a lot of stuff years ago.
I will have to look.


----------



## Fighterpilot

Well Ed, I haven't been in the hobby long enough to have so much stuff that I don't know what I have; but, I hope to be there one of these days. All the cars that I have (all 8) look like they are identical, so I"m sure they are from the same mold. 

I had all 4 trains running today on my layout, smoke bellowing from stacks, lights on the passenger cars bright, locomotives hauling pretty long consists, and when I turned on my layout lighting, my ZW protested the load and the red light came on and shut down everything. It's all back up and running now and I put my layout lighting on my 80w spar transformer; however, I was surprised to see the ZW get overloaded. No shorts or anything of that nature, just shut down after I turned on the inner small control section of the ZW that energizes the lights on the layout. I guess it all was just a little too much at once.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

santafe158 said:


> Here's a plane photo for you
> 
> It's my dad's stepdad's plane, a 1950's Beechcraft Bonanza "V-Tail". Can't remember exactly what year it is.


Nice airplane. I flew one of those a few times, but when it came to buying, I got a great deal on the Mooney and so I went for that. The Mooney was quite a bit cheaper to fly and almost as fast, so it seemed a better deal.


----------



## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Well Ed, I haven't been in the hobby long enough to have so much stuff that I don't know what I have; but, I hope to be there one of these days. All the cars that I have (all 8) look like they are identical, so I"m sure they are from the same mold.
> 
> I had all 4 trains running today on my layout, smoke bellowing from stacks, lights on the passenger cars bright, locomotives hauling pretty long consists, and when I turned on my layout lighting, my ZW protested the load and the red light came on and shut down everything. It's all back up and running now and I put my layout lighting on my 80w spar transformer; however, I was surprised to see the ZW get overloaded. No shorts or anything of that nature, just shut down after I turned on the inner small control section of the ZW that energizes the lights on the layout. I guess it all was just a little too much at once.


I have all my lights set up on an 80 too. The ZW I use just for the trains.

I thought 2 of those names rang a bell, I do have 2 of them. The 19067 & 19068. 
See, my problem used to be that my O were all in big boxes and when I wanted to use them I would have to look for them inside the boxes.
I recently bought a bunch of shelves to get them out of the boxes.

I found the box of them and put them on one the shelves I bought.
I still have to unpack others. Little by little I am seeing what I got. 

I thought I had 2 of them, now I got to get the other 2. hwell:
Thanks for finding them for me.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Ed, what do you hang on the plastic hangers, freight cars to dry after the wash rack?


----------



## Fighterpilot

They are pretty colored hangers, too. I hope your favorites aren't the pink ones.


----------



## Big Ed

We had a bunch of the twins clothes from when they were young and were going to sell them in a garage sale so we saved the hangers to display them. 
A lot of the clothes were in like new shape. Especially the infant stuff.

I finally told her to sell them or I would get rid of them.

I donated them to a goodwill place, they came and picked them up.

ALL THIRTY LARGE GREEN GARBAGE BAGS WORTH!!
And we still have some, Lord knows why.

The hangers......I moved a bunch before I took the picture.

You never know, they might come in handy for something one day.
Something? :dunno:


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## Fighterpilot

You're so right, Ed. You never know what will fit that need you might have somewhere down the road. I'm somewhat of a packrat and some of the things I keep come in handy sometimes. Glad I helped you get your boxes organized looking for those passenger cars. You've got a pretty good collection going.


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## Fighterpilot

My construction crew was having a little problem wheelbarrowing their concrete over the tracks, so they improvised a wooden walkway.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I should put those guys to work here, I need all the help I can get.


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## tjcruiser

Hey ... all THREE of those guys are actually working! Must NOT be Union guys?!?!?



Nice detail touch, FP ... again bringing the fun layout to life!

TJ


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## Big Ed

Nice touch is that a piece of cork road bed? :thumbsup:


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## Big Ed

tjcruiser said:


> Hey ... all THREE of those guys are actually working! Must NOT be Union guys?!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> Nice detail touch, FP ... again bringing the fun layout to life!
> 
> TJ



There are four don't ya know?


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## Fighterpilot

I used my favorite building material, pink foam insulation, sliced about 3/32nd of an inch thick, cut to width, and scribed with a pencil to give the affect of a boardwalk. Painted brown with acrylic water based paint.


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## tjcruiser

I said THREE were working, Ed.  

(But you're right ... I didn't see #4 ... the guy talking to his girlfriend on the cell phone!)


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## gunrunnerjohn

Three out of four working is way better odds than I see for most work crews on the RR or the roads!


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## raleets

That guy with the wheelbarrow will soon need a chiropractor!


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## wsorfan4003

raleets said:


> That guy with the wheelbarrow will soon need a chiropractor!


Certainly



Spoiler



his back is starting to hunch over


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## Fighterpilot

Just what we need, an OSHA representative on the job. They don't all have hard hats on either. You know, I just realized there is no compressor nearby for that 90 lb jack hammer to be working with. Might have to remedy that.

I picked up the black delivery truck the other day at Walmart for about $4.50. I always browse through the toy section to see if they have anything that I might add to the layout for a reasonable price. The Shell diesel tank is made from the tops of two spray paint cans and a cut off shotgun shell for the top hatch.


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## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> I used my favorite building material, pink foam insulation, sliced about 3/32nd of an inch thick, cut to width, and scribed with a pencil to give the affect of a boardwalk. Painted brown with acrylic water based paint.


Came out looking good. :thumbsup:



tjcruiser said:


> I said THREE were working, Ed.
> 
> (But you're right ... I didn't see #4 ... the guy talking to his girlfriend on the cell phone!)


If you look at the one picture it looks like he is "watering" the box.


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## IlliniViking

big ed said:


> If you look at the one picture it looks like he is "watering" the box.


That's what I was thinking Ed.


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## Fighterpilot

Don't tell me I have to put a portalet on the job site as well. Man, this is going to exceed my cost estimate and eat into my profit. Let's see, I not only have to put a compressor on the job site to operate the paving breaker, now I need a portable can. Could be two additions if I can find an O scale portable can and a compressor. You guys keep it up...I'm sure there is more stuff you can come up with that I need to add. Anybody know where I might be able to get some traffic signals? Contributions will be accepted at my local address which will be given when any contributions are promised.


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## Big Ed

Just a few observations I noticed.

One thing I did notice is 2 of them don't have hard hats and none have safety glasses. 

And here on the east coast everyone has to wear safety reflective vests now too. :thumbsdown:

Maybe a flag man should be on site too, along with a boss, where would we be if it wasn't for bosses. :thumbsdown:

Signs are needed saying WATCH OUT FOR THE TRAINS, one posted on each side minimum size should be 2'x2'. 

The gang plank you made should have some kind of support under it on the long section where the wheelbarrow man is.
That is an unsafe work condition, it could collapse from the weight, it needs handrails on the sides too. 
USW safety division has been informed. 
They might show up with pickets, till it is fixed.

Expect OSHA to show up soon.
They have been informed.


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## sjm9911

Great job. I like the idea of using the bx wire. And the waterfall looked good. As I did not read through the whole thread yet, ed did forget one thing. In ny and NJ it is mandatory to have few no show mafia jobs. A few lawn chairs with some people drinking beer would work! Nice looking layout.


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## Fighterpilot

I purchased some Cat Tails on E-bay a couple of days ago and they came in today. Got them planted along my drainage ditch. You don't get too many for the money and those little suckers are expensive. I could use another pack of 24. They don't go very far.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The look really cool there, I do have one recommendation. If you get more, I'd make them more continuous, they don't normally grow in clumps.

Where did you find those, that's one thing I haven't seen yet?


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## tjcruiser

That looks great, FP. I especially like the reflections in the little drainage creek.

TJ


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## Fighterpilot

GRJ, I will probably get more and spread them out a little more along the bank. Down here in Louisiana, where everything is wet and for the most part stays wet, Cat Tails do grow in clumps and in big bunches. I'd love to spread them out a little more, with a little more dense planting; however, those puppies are *expensive!!*
I found them on E-bay, under O scale scenery. The package says they come from Model Rectifier Corporation though.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Anything that detailed tends to be expensive. I'm used to the way they grow in PA and NY, normally a wet patch is just full of cattails, wall-to-wall.


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## wingnut163

cut them down, let them dry out and light them. keeps the bugs away.


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## Big Ed

They grow in clumps here in the East too, don't know where John is looking.

How much was the pack of 24? I got one a few weeks ago on e bay for $10.90 for 24 with free shipping. Buy it now.
Do yours have only one punk in each cluster?

Looks good. :thumbsup:

Edit,
I miss read what John said, I know what he is talking about now. 
But I do see them like you have too.
I have seen them in small groups growing. The cattails he is talking about is an Established group that have been there for a long time.
But at one time they started with just one punk spreading it's seed.


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## Fighterpilot

Some clusters have a couple of tails in them. I noticed that the wire sticks out of the top of some of the cat tails, easily fixed with a little brown latex paint. I think I paid right at $10.00 including shipping for a pack of 24. Model Rectifier Corp. has them advertised on their web site, too.
I'll probably get somemore to add. They do look good.


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## Fighterpilot

Picked up this covered hopper today. Thought it would look good with my Mo Pac/UP Heritage SD70AC


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## Big Ed

Fighterpilot said:


> Some clusters have a couple of tails in them. I noticed that the wire sticks out of the top of some of the cat tails, easily fixed with a little brown latex paint. I think I paid right at $10.00 including shipping for a pack of 24. Model Rectifier Corp. has them advertised on their web site, too.
> I'll probably get somemore to add. They do look good.



Mine are probably the same ones, I was trying to figure out a way to make some up.
Then I saw those. 

They do have a bunch more different things like corn and flowers but like you said they are pricey. 

But 24 into $10.00 = .41 cents a piece and that is with shipping. 
That makes it sound better.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I like that locomotive, the color scheme is much nicer than the yellow that UP normally uses.  Maybe they should adopt that as their new color scheme.


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## Fighterpilot

I like it so much that I tried to buy another one on ebay to make a lash-up. Missed it at the last moment by $3.00. I believe it went for $365.00 which is an excellent price for that locomotive w/ Legacy.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Let me introduce you to Gixen, it's your friend when you're trying to score stuff like this.


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## sjm9911

I knew people use that but did not know it was that cheap! Thanks.
At first I thought it was a link to some other members dog!


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## Fighterpilot

Well, I joined up. Now to learn how to use it. I'm not the swiftest thing with these computers.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Actually, Gixen is free, though I give him the $6/yr for the extra features. I also want him to be around in the future, great little utility.


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## Fighterpilot

FREE, FREE, Something is actually free? I guess I donated $6.00 as well, GRJ. I'll try to use it the next time I want to buy something.


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## gunrunnerjohn

It's a cool tool, and well worth $6/yr.


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## Fighterpilot

Just thought I'd share with you guys the detail that Lionel has put into their big steamers. This is the EM-1 that I just purchased a couple of months ago and I think the detail in the locomotive is fabulous.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks great, I like the stuff like the red valve handle, they're starting to actually pay attention. They finally learned the lesson from K-Line, some of the later Lionel designs are actually from the K-Line stuff after they acquired K-Line.


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## tjcruiser

Hard to tell apart from the real deal!


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## Fighterpilot

Guys, the train board is for sale. See my post in the FOR SALE thread.


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## Magic

Fighter: Just found your thread tonight went through the whole thing. Boy am I impressed, great detail. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Your locos are just fabulous, one of the beauty's of O gauge. I'm in HO and you just don't get that much detail. 

What I found most interesting was your river and pouring the water. I have the same problem only worse.  much steeper grade at the head end. The lower level should work out pretty good if I read your post correctly but the head end is going to be a problem. Looking at your waterfall gave me an idea. You used water effects for it.
Question do you thing water effects would work as a rapids?









The head end is where the big boulder is and it's pretty steep down to the little outcropping of rock on the left.

My "no plan" plan is to narrow up the head along the banks with boulders etc. and
pour a little water at a time to coat the gravel and than add water effects for a rapids look. Sound like a good plan?


Magic


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## Fighterpilot

For the water in the river or stream, I used Envirotech. It's an epoxy compound and although it will run, it is thick enough that it will not totally disappear on the high end.
Yes, you should be able to use water effects product to make you rapids.


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## Magic

Thanks Fighter. I'll give it a try.
Shame your selling such a beautiful layout but than again your planes are every bit as detailed as well, sure are beautiful. Gotta be a lot of fun to fly.

Magic


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## norgale

After you pour the "water" let it set up a bit and then stipple it with a paint brush. That will pull some of the water up and turn it white like around the rocks and stuff. makes it look like it's actually running. You can do the same thing with silicone caulking but be sure to use the crystal clear stuff. Strips of caulking make good water falls too. Pete


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