# DCC decoder advice wanted



## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Like many model railroaders who started buying locomotives before DCC came on the scene, I have plenty of DC locomotives to convert to DCC. This brings up my concern about cost. I have ruled out a bunch of old clunkers, but still have a bunch of Kato N-scale diesels, and a few steamers, plus some electrics, in need of decoders. I don't want sound decoders, just the motor & lights type. The decoders also don't have to be the "drop in" type, designed for one particular model, though they can be. In a few cases, like my Alco RS-1 & RS-3, they may need to be drop ins, due to the very tight space inside those hood units. 
A look at Modeltrainstuff, and Tony's Train exchange, shows $29.95 as a pretty common price for most brands. ESU seems to be much more expensive.

So, I'm asking for advice on how to keep my cost per decoder down, without getting into any sort of shady dealer's clutches.:rippedhand: 
What has your experience been? Are there discount online sources that you have used, and recommend? Are there any that you would advise me NOT to use?

Thanks;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

I have found LAIS decoders good, they are a bit of a wait, but prices are half the rest of them .. just a FYI


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I've been very satisfied with both sound and non-sound ESU decoders. The non-sound decoder in Br.111 was $33. Not that big of a different in price unless you're converting 20 locomotives.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I see a number of on line shops offering N scale non sound
decoders for under 20.00...some even less than 10.00.

https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/digitrax/digitrax-n-scale/

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*More info please?*



wvgca said:


> I have found LAIS decoders good, they are a bit of a wait, but prices are half the rest of them .. just a FYI


wvgca;

Thanks for your response. I would like to get more info about LAIS decoders. Excuse my ignorance, but What do the initials LAIS
stand for? Do you have a link, or website for this company's products? Time is not an issue. I'm not in any hurry. How long did it take for your LAIS decoder order to be delivered?

Again, Thank You;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*thanks*



MichaelE said:


> I've been very satisfied with both sound and non-sound ESU decoders. The non-sound decoder in Br.111 was $33. Not that big of a different in price unless you're converting 20 locomotives.


MichaelE;

Thanks for your response. While ESU has a reputation for making very high quality decoders, I do have more than twenty locomotives. I will not necessarily convert all of them to DCC, but many. Thus, cost-per-decoder is important for me. On both modeltrainstuff , and Tony's trains, sites, ESU seemed to be charging anywhere from double, to nearly triple, what NCE, or Digitrax, was.

Again thanks for your reply;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

Do you have a link, or website for this company's products? Time is not an issue. I'm not in any hurry. How long did it take for your LAIS decoder order to be delivered?

Again, Thank You;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:[/QUOTE]


easiest is to do a google search for LAIS dcc decoder ...
you will find the home site there .. there are also links to resellers on ebay [among others] that carry LAIS products ..
I ordered mine from alibaba [i think?] and it probably took a month, not sure right now ..


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Thanks Don!*



DonR said:


> I see a number of on line shops offering N scale non sound
> decoders for under 20.00...some even less than 10.00.
> 
> https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/digitrax/digitrax-n-scale/
> ...


Don;

Thanks for you reply. I used the link, and saw some decoders with low prices, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. The first Digitrax decoder in the upper right says it's a "single function decoder." Does that mean it is a normal, locomotive motor controlling decoder with one (headlight) function output, or is it designed to do only a function, like turn a light on/off, but not control the motor? The printed description sounds like it is the latter. One ESU "N-HO decoder's description tells you everything about it but the physical size. If it is the same size as it's photo, it would be a very tough fit in an N-scale locomotive. Very frustrating! :dunno:
Do you have links to any others online sources? I have modeltrainstuff, and tonystrainexchange, already.

Regards;

Traction Fan


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I'm sort of in the same boat and wondering the same thing myself. A recent inexpensive purchase of a walthers engine reveals it has a SoundTraxx decoder in it. 

I liked it because I first put on a conventional track and it "did the right thing" and made sound and basically workd. In fact I liked it so much I briefly considered not bothering with putting my DCC base on it.

I have another HO engine from PIKO. I had a shop put one of the ESU decoders in it. I can't recall which one but the nice thing about it was it has a programmable sound option.

Of course you have to buy ESU sound programmer... still it's possible to change it. And I might since its a european engine and I like the idea of a fiddling around with the different sound options & making is sound very different.

But other than this I have several I've thought about converting and will probably just pick and choose, try various manufacturers -- as I have the time and interest... and of course money to do so.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Lais' web site... https://laisdcc.com/

On eBay search using "LaisDCC"


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

traction fan said:


> Are there any that you would advise me NOT to use?


MRC.

I purchased the decoder listed on their site for my Mantua "DCC Ready" 0-6-0T loco. My customer service experience went as follows (_italics_ is MRCs side of the dialog):

--------------------------------------
I’ve purchased a 00113741 decoder for a Mantua 0-6-0T switcher, but the connector on the loco isn’t an NMRA 8-pin, but, instead a 9-pin flat connector. 

Do I need an adapter or a different decoder?

Also, the web site and the decoder paperwork says “no speaker”, but there is a speaker.

_To make this decoder work you will either have to hard wire in the decoder or cut off the 8 pin and soldier in the 9 pin. There isn't an adapter available for this type of installation._

Since both the decoder and loco are MRC, can you tell me what to solder to what?

On the loco there are brown, black, gray, yellow, white, blue, orange, red & green wires.

On the decoder there are black, gray, yellow, white, blue, orange & red wires.

_I'm not sure how that would line up. You would need to find a diagram to convert the 8 pin to the 9 pin. _

The loco and the decoder both are MRC. You don’t have a diagram?

_We've never made a modification like that. You're going to be better off replacing the decoder with one that has the 9 pin JST. This way you can be certain the decoder will be wired correctly. _

Can you tell me what decoder that would be?

_You may use the 0001911 Universal Steam decoder for your locomotive._

--------------------------------------


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Stumpy said:


> MRC.
> 
> I purchased the decoder listed on their site for my Mantua "DCC Ready" 0-6-0T loco. My customer service experience went as follows (_italics_ is MRCs side of the dialog):
> 
> ...


I would also caution against MRC decoders, but not for the reason Stumpy quotes. Rather it is the high failure rate compared to other brands that gives me pause.

Stumpy's experience is interesting -- although that is the recommended decoder for that particular locomotive, I would be hard pressed to call a Mantua model "MRC". MRC acquired the Model Power brand, which in turn had absorbed Mantua, but the product lines don't mix. It would be like calling General Dynamics Land Systems (makers of the M1A1 Abrams Tank) and asking how to program the avionics suite on a Gulfstream 450. Both are divisions of General Dynamics, but that's as far as it goes.

I suspect they recommend that decoder because it is their "generic steam" model, not because it is necessarily a good fit. Was the decoder new in the box? If so, it should have come with a wiring diagram. And, as near as zi can tell, no speaker.


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

MRC has gained a reputation of being poor in the sound decoders way back ... it doesn't seem to carry over to the non-sound decoders though ..


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> MRC acquired the Model Power brand, which in turn had absorbed Mantua, but the product lines don't mix.


DCC ready locomotive... mobile decoder. If those two product lines don't "mix", then I don't know what would.



CTValleyRR said:


> It would be like calling General Dynamics Land Systems (makers of the M1A1 Abrams Tank) and asking how to program the avionics suite on a Gulfstream 450. Both are divisions of General Dynamics, but that's as far as it goes.


That's a bit of a stretch for an analogy. 



CTValleyRR said:


> Was the decoder new in the box? If so, it should have come with a wiring diagram. And, as near as zi can tell, no speaker.


Yes. It did, but the loco didn't. Yeah, the pic on the web site wasn't what was in the package.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Stumpy said:


> DCC ready locomotive... mobile decoder. If those two product lines don't "mix", then I don't know what would.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You obviously missed the point -- which was to point out that just because two brands have the same corporate parent doesn't mean that there is any coordination between the two units. Unless MRC relocated all the divisions, they aren't even in the same state.

Yes, a DCC mobile decoder of any make can be used in anyone's locomotive, with varying degrees of success. But you don't necessarily improve compatibility by purchasing both from the same corporate parent.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> You obviously missed the point -- which was to point out that just because two brands have the same corporate parent doesn't mean that there is any coordination between the two units.


No, I didn't. But perhaps you did mine. You have two "units" that go together like biscuits & gravy. If the "corporate parent" has not made an effort to "coordinate" them, then that's foolish and shortsighted. 



CTValleyRR said:


> Unless MRC relocated all the divisions, they aren't even in the same state.


Irrelevant in this day and age.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Severn said:


> I'm sort of in the same boat and wondering the same thing myself. A recent inexpensive purchase of a walthers engine reveals it has a SoundTraxx decoder in it.
> 
> I liked it because I first put on a conventional track and it "did the right thing" and made sound and basically workd. In fact I liked it so much I briefly considered not bothering with putting my DCC base on it.
> 
> ...


Yes, with the ESU programmer there is a lot you can do with ESU decoders. Change the sound file entirely to a different lokomotive or tweak the sounds that are already programmed in, as well as set all of the electro-mechanical parameters without having to use CV's on the hand-held. You are still programming CV's, but it's much more straightforward and there is much more information presented on the computer.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I think I will get one (an ESU programmer). One thing that also interests me somewhat along those lines are sites like this:

https://www.opendcc.de/index_e.html

and of course the DCC++ is the controller end of things...

could be more. i may not know where to look.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Stumpy said:


> No, I didn't. But perhaps you did mine. You have two "units" that go together like biscuits & gravy. If the "corporate parent" has not made an effort to "coordinate" them, then that's foolish and shortsighted.
> 
> 
> 
> Irrelevant in this day and age.


Your words say you didn't, but your response says you did.. You obviously want to be right about this, so I'm done.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> You obviously want to be right about this...


Nah. I'm just not changing my opinion because it doesn't match yours.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

OK, citizens! Move along, nothing to see here....


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

On the flip side...

I ordered a NCE D13J decoder for my DCC-ready Mantua 0-6-0T loco. from www.traintekllc.com. 

I installed the decoder, put the loco on programming track and changed the address. When I put the loco on the track and powered up it shorted out. I took the decoder out of the loco and put the "plug" back in the socket and all was good. I installed the decoder again, placed it on the track and it shorted out. 

I contacted TrainTek (via their 'contact us' page),explained the problem and asked if I should return to them or NCE?

The prompt reply from Gary was, "NCE prefers items to be returned to them directly for service or replacement. Here is a link to their contact page. https://www.ncedcc.com/contact-nce "

I contacted NCE via the link provided and explained the problem.

The prompt reply was, "Provide your address and we'll send a replacement."


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

The package from NCE arrived today. Inside was a 4-pack of D13J decoders.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Five for the price of one? Or did you order three in addition to the replacement?


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

MichaelE said:


> Five for the price of one? Or did you order three in addition to the replacement?


Instead of sending one replacement for the one I bought, they sent a 4-pack.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Awesome deal!


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