# dirty track problems - need advice please.



## GeneGravatt (Mar 6, 2018)

I recently purchased a new Lionel Trolley from my local dealer and he sold me some fastrack and a power supply. The curves are the 036 size, 35.5" diameter.

I have it set up in a relatively clean environment in a spare bedroom, and after just a few hours of run time the shiny silver rails are blackened, mostly the center rail and outer rail where the traction tires are situated, but also the inner rail too. I polish up the rails with a fine grade of scotchbrite, clean the wheels and pickup rollers with alcohol, and it runs great for a few hours, then the rails get a black deposit laid down and the trolley actually slows down. I have vacuumed up all dust, debris, and keep the track as spotless as possible but the black deposits continue. I am really surprised the power pickup rollers lay down the film because they roll freely.

It is almost exclusively on the curves. The wheelbase of the trolley is small of course. I thought about expanding to 048 curvature. I need advice, this is my wife's village set up and I don't want to be constantly cleaning. Would an On30 setup on nickel silver track run cleaner? help please! What would be the cleanest running track and locomotive to get if I ever start a new layout?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Dirty track*



GeneGravatt said:


> I recently purchased a new Lionel Trolley from my local dealer and he sold me some fastrack and a power supply. The curves are the 036 size, 35.5" diameter.
> 
> I have it set up in a relatively clean environment in a spare bedroom, and after just a few hours of run time the shiny silver rails are blackened, mostly the center rail and outer rail where the traction tires are situated, but also the inner rail too. I polish up the rails with a fine grade of scotchbrite, clean the wheels and pickup rollers with alcohol, and it runs great for a few hours, then the rails get a black deposit laid down and the trolley actually slows down. I have vacuumed up all dust, debris, and keep the track as spotless as possible but the black deposits continue. I am really surprised the power pickup rollers lay down the film because they roll freely.
> 
> It is almost exclusively on the curves. The wheelbase of the trolley is small of course. I thought about expanding to 048 curvature. I need advice, this is my wife's village set up and I don't want to be constantly cleaning. Would an On30 setup on nickel silver track run cleaner? help please! What would be the cleanest running track and locomotive to get if I ever start a new layout?


GeneGravatt;

Dirty track is a fact of life with model trains in any scale. How often you have to clean your track depends on the cleanliness of the train room, the cleanliness of the train's wheels, the amount and type of oil used to lubricate the locomotive, your cleaning method, and the type of metal used to make the rails. The last one, metal type is very important. There are three metals that have been used to make model rails. Steel, brass, and nickle-silver alloy. It's been over 60 years since I had Marx trains with their three-rail track. So my answers are going to be quite generic. I highly recommend that you post your question on our O-scale, and Tinplate sections to get help from people currently using that type of equipment. Steel rail was/is a bit of a cleaning nightmare. Steel rusts and is a slightly poorer electrical conductor than brass or nickle silver.
If I remember correctly, three-rail tinplate track had rails made of rolled over steel, with the connecting pins inside the roll at one end of each section. You can verify my steel theory by holding a magnet near the rail. If the magnet sticks, the rail is steel. 
Steel rail was tried in HO and N scales. It was a commercial flop because of rust and cleaning issues. It's seldom used now.
Brass rail was used on early HO-scale track. It worked well enough, better than steel, but still required fairly frequent cleaning. It's still used on G-scale track.
Nickle silver has replaced brass on HO-scale track because it needs cleaning less often than brass, and the silver color looks more realistic than the gold color of brass. N-scale and Z-scale have nickle silver rail as well.
From your description, I'm guessing your trolley may be laying down oil on the rail because it has too much oil in it. A single drop of plastic compatible oil on the gears, is all that's needed. Many use grease, instead of oil, because it stays in place better.
Another thing you could try is attaching some sort of shoe underneath the car with an alcohol soaked pad on it to clean the track as the car goes along. The pad would need to be changed when it got too dirty.

good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## GeneGravatt (Mar 6, 2018)

Thanks. The rails seem to be a type of stainless steel. Very uneven too from section to section, the elevation changes. I'll pull the trolley apart tonight and give it a very good cleaning. The wheels appear to be a blackened steel probably Metal Injection Molded, they and the pickup rollers look almost like a sintered, powdered metal type.

The traction tires look ok, not really worn yet.

So nickel-silver sounds like thee way to go. What is the best material for locomotive wheels, plated steel?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

GeneGravatt said:


> Thanks. The rails seem to be a type of stainless steel. Very uneven too from section to section, the elevation changes. I'll pull the trolley apart tonight and give it a very good cleaning. The wheels appear to be a blackened steel probably Metal Injection Molded, they and the pickup rollers look almost like a sintered, powdered metal type.
> 
> The traction tires look ok, not really worn yet.
> 
> So nickel-silver sounds like thee way to go. What is the best material for locomotive wheels, plated steel?


Nickel-silver is definitely the material of choice for rails. I won't use anything else.

Locomotive wheels are basically going to be what the manufacturer wants to use. Part of your problem may be the traction tires. If these are old, they may shed particles and create lots of dirt. Even though the trolley is new to you, it may have been sitting on someone's store shelf for quite a while.

You can try replacing them with OEM equipment, or a suitable replacement brand, or by using a product called Bullfrog Snot, to basically "paint" a new traction tire on the loco.


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## GeneGravatt (Mar 6, 2018)

why would the center rail pickup rollers be leaving a black deposit?

I do think the trolley was new old stock could have been years old.

When I ran HO scale years ago, I had flex-track in nickel silver and never had any issues at all


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Maybe try some different track. If you have a menards near, try them for O36 track.
Will cost a lot less than that fastrack cost you. At my menards they have moved the train stuff off the floor and put it upstairs in an off season area.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

Didn't I see this same thread somewhere else?


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

He had the question here and somebody suggested he ask in O scale forum and he did.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

GeneGravatt said:


> why would the center rail pickup rollers be leaving a black deposit?


Oil or grease from the rollers being over-lubbed. As the roller leaves contact with the track, it arcs for a millisecond, enough to burn any contaminants.


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## GeneGravatt (Mar 6, 2018)

Well, I have visited the train store with the trolley, they powered it up, really polished the wheels, and installed a new driver tire. As they cleaned the wheels with fluid and Q-tips, the wheels just continue to give off black crud, it's almost like the wheels are porous and soaked with black material that never goes away. They are puzzled, and I'm ready to move on and get a new locomotive. The Fastrack appears to be non-corrosive, highly ferrous testing it with a magnet, like a real low grade of stainless, and I don't believe the track is the problem, the trolley wheels seem to be the source of the black crud.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

GeneGravatt said:


> Well, I have visited the train store with the trolley, they powered it up, really polished the wheels, and installed a new driver tire. As they cleaned the wheels with fluid and Q-tips, the wheels just continue to give off black crud, it's almost like the wheels are porous and soaked with black material that never goes away. They are puzzled, and I'm ready to move on and get a new locomotive. The Fastrack appears to be non-corrosive, highly ferrous testing it with a magnet, like a real low grade of stainless, and I don't believe the track is the problem, the trolley wheels seem to be the source of the black crud.


Well, as others have mentioned in your two threads on the same subject, why is the center rail getting grimy if it is the tires? Find out what is in common across the three rails - or, is the center rail a different type of grime?

Mineral spirits are not going to help. I would try brake cleaner applied to a rag.


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## GeneGravatt (Mar 6, 2018)

Nikola, the center rail is contaminated by the 2 pickup rollers, and they appear to be made of the same dark colored metail used on the wheels. They give off a black residue even after cleaning well, polishing them, etc. It is as if the porous metal contains the black contaminant.


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## Nikola (Jun 11, 2012)

GeneGravatt said:


> Nikola, the center rail is contaminated by the 2 pickup rollers, and they appear to be made of the same dark colored metail used on the wheels. They give off a black residue even after cleaning well, polishing them, etc. It is as if the porous metal contains the black contaminant.


Then abrasive cleaning is pointless. Try cleaning with brake clean as suggested. Clean the track with brake clean and the center rollers with brake clean. The rubber tires might not like being wet with brake clean - it depends on what they are made of. You can use spray electrical contact cleaner on the rubber tires.


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