# New project... Steam Crane & Coal Tender combo



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Tichy crane kit #4010*_
_Crane #SPMW 7005 - Klamath Falls, circa 1958-'72.
See thread "Crane Tales... The Legend of #7020", 2-27-2017._

_*IHC (Rivarossi) plastic tender shell*_
_Crane attendant #7005-B at Klamath Falls._

These two were an item for 14 years in Southern Pacific's scenic but hazardous Shasta Division.
Crane #7005 (later re-numbered to #7020) holds the record for wreck-lifts... over 300.

The crane's interior parts will be individually hand painted prior to assembly. The exterior will be painted and weathered to match photos of the prototype.

The Rivarossi plastic tender shell was purchased on eBay for cheap. It'll be matched up with Precision Scale Commonwealth trucks and several detail parts to replicate one of five Mikado tenders purchased from the Missouri Pacific in the 1930's.
First to go will be the rear marker lights and ladder... the ladder will be replaced with Kadee #2254's.
It'll also get the rear safety stripes.
First of all though, a strip and prime are in order.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*The Legend of #7020:*_

These two were teamed up at around 1935-'36 (the crane was built in 1928).
They were separated in 1973, when #7005 was converted to oil firing.
After that it was serviced by a Vandy oil tender.

In 1975, #7005 was clandestinely re-numbered to #7020 by it's crew, in the dark of night, to rescue it from the scrapper's torch.
It was finally retired in 1982, (after 54 years of service) and is currently preserved in museum trim... presumably somewhere near Eugene.


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## Sawdust (Oct 26, 2010)

This is a really nice kit that can be even better with a few details added like you mentioned.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_Precision Scale_ brass Commonwealth tender trucks...
Not very good rollers out-of-the-box. Hopefully, a Truck-Tune will help.
Generally speaking, brass trucks don't have the 'lubricating' or low-friction properties of Delrin or plastic.
Nickel plated wheels will definitely need painting & weathering.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Curious reporting marks*_

Until the later years, SP numbered their crane-attending cars with reporting marks the same as the crane, with an alpha suffix...
For instance, the lift-tender (boom car) for #7005 would be numbered #7005-A, the coal tender #7005-B, a tool car #7005-C, a crew car #7005-D, etc.
Generally, they all stayed together, unless a maintenance issue separated them for awhile.
Tool cars, and most crew cars were stenciled "Relief Tender" on the sides, where the road name or herald would normally be.

BTW, SP coal tenders for cranes were actually stenciled "B-End" on the rear sill.
I can find no evidence of an "F" on the forward side sills.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

looking forward to pics of build , the tichy crane is a fun build , if you haven't built any tichy kits you might find the instructions a bit vague .


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

J.C. said:


> looking forward to pics of build , the tichy crane is a fun build , if you haven't built any tichy kits you might find the instructions a bit vague .


Yes they definitely are vague.
I built the USRA boxcar (which is a basic kit) in _spite_ of them, and just perusing these, I can see a problem with the instructions dealing with the myriad of cab interior pieces.

For instance, the main cog (P2) and valve wheels (N7) although indicated on the schematic, are not clearly described in the text insofar as their precise locations to mating pieces.
Cable winding directions at first glance, look staggeringly complex.
Plus, directions for adding the shot-weight are confusing at best. Photos would've been a big help.

I'll just have to be extra patient, and go slow. At least I've got real-life hoist and crane experience in my background. Hopefully it'll pay off.

I'm hoping the most difficult parts will be fabricating a bracket for a Pyle headlight, and attaching the bazillions of grab irons... which somehow all got loose from their envelope.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

The Precision Scale Commonwealth truck bolsters aren't drilled...
There's rimmed bosses to drill out, but no pilot point to start a drill bit. Bad design.
This may present a problem.
Don't want a diagonal "kiddie-corner" tracker.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Found _Vallejo_ Lime Green, and _Gravity_ Lime Yellow...
Gonna' get belligerently rebellious, and paint the hook falls in both colors -- one each.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

@LateStarter, could you perhaps clarify how the crane and tender were paired together? At first I thought you meant you were going to use both cars to kitbash a single combines tender and crane, but that didn't make much sense either. So were the two cars just always paired together similar to a steamer and its tender, or am I still missing something?


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Shdwdrgn said:


> @LateStarter, could you perhaps clarify how the crane and tender were paired together?


Steam cranes needed fuel & water just like a locomotive...
On many roads, the crane, lift-tender and coal (or oil) tender generally traveled together as a 3-car set, with the crew & tool cars behind. The coal tender was coupled behind the crane as with a locomotive.

In lieu of that, a coal hopper and tank car were brought along.

However, I'm not sure how the _transfer_ of coal was made -- maybe a portable conveyor... or even just muscle and a shovel.
There was a small coal bin in the crane cab, but any lift could turn out to be an all-day job, or up to several days.

In most cases, the whole ensemble was _pushed_ to a lift site, rather than pulled.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Hmm interesting... so you're saying that the tender paired with the crane was actually a *separate* tender from the one behind the loco? I've never seen that before, but then again I've seen very little info on steam cranes in general, so now that you point it out it does make sense that the crane would need its own fuel supply. Do you have any photos you're using for inspiration in this project?


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Do you have any photos you're using for inspiration in this project?


I have lots of crane photos, like the two internet pics I posted in the O.P.
But in 1971 I toured the MW tracks in Oregon, where I saw this particular combo, and the Yard Boss told me about the legend of #7020.
I took pics of both the crane and tender, and made some notes. Unfortunately, the photos are long lost. I still have the notes.
I've searched the web for more photos, but no luck.
It's killing me, because there are details I really need to know... like was there a brake-wheel on both sides? Do I have the correct trucks for the build? Etc... I didn't make note of these things.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Maybe this will help? http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=370650

Regarding the brake wheel, I believe the answer is yes. Note in your photo and the last photo on the page above, the white grab-iron on the left hand side has a downwards bend to it. Yet in the first photo on that page (which also appears to be from the opposite side) the left-hand bar is straight. Even though the photos were taken on different dates, that grab-iron appears to have been bent for a very long time and you might be able to use that flaw to determine the side in other photos you might find. (It occurs to me that the crane itself is probably always on the same end, so duh, that would be a good indicator too!  )

You might also like this... although it only shows one side the video might give you clues to other details?





Also check here, about half way down the page: http://www.antiquepowerland.com/html/western_steam_fiends.html

A higher-res profile shot similar to what you have: https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4303/36267419646_b0f3803547_b.jpg

More photos including the history (click photos for larger pics), plus two more videos of 7020 in operation at the bottom: http://trainpages.blogspot.com/2014/06/western-steam-fiends-steam-railway.html

Also found a couple B&W photos that seem to show more detail into steam engine itself: http://www.darewehope.org/Crane.html

Hope that helps your search! 'Tis a very interesting beast, just lightly too new for my own time period but it gives me some insight into something that I would also like to see on my own layout some day.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I owe you a steak dinner...
At least two of those photos clearly show another brake wheel on the right side!
Curiously, it's mounted forward, as opposed to aft on the left side... which makes sense.
Thank you for the help!!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Glad I could help! Funny enough, all I did was put "SPMW 7020" into the google image search and scanned through the first few rows of images. It looked like there might also be pics of other cranes from the same series there, so that could still be of use to you.

Yeah it looks like the wheel is always on the right no matter which side you approach from. A question though, are you sure those are brake wheels? I noticed that car also has stabilizers that come out from either side of the car, very similar to modern vehicle-type cranes. Is there a chance those wheels could manually retract and extend the arms?


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

fallen flags has some photos of that type of crane. here is old photo of them working.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Is there a chance those wheels could manually retract and extend the arms?


Outriggers?
Yes, that's a distinct possibility. In fact that's a valid point. It'd make sense in their location also.
But in any case... they're essentially Kadee or Precision Scale Ajax _brake wheels_.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Interesting details...

In some photos, and in the Oregon Railfan vid posted by Shdwdrgn, there's an SP herald on the cab.
A very nice touch that I'll be adding.

Also a whistle & bell, and a loco-type generator.

I only wish that a sound card could be made up, with all that clatter!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

LateStarter said:


> I only wish that a sound card could be made up, with all that clatter!


Keep that thought in mind and remind me again in a year. I've been planning to re-do my electronic gear with DCC support, and over the holiday break I dove into building a DCC++ controller (specifically DCCppESP32, if anyone is curious). Now I'm working on the software for a loco decoder and I have parts being shipped to also work on a decoder for my turnouts (going to experiment with servos). So -- it's only a matter of time before I get around to also doing sound on my locos. Electronically, sound is actually fairly easy to work with as long as long as you have something that can output a decent analog signal, and it just happens I have just the thing. So if you run across any good sound clips that reproduce various functions of the crane, keep them together and we'll see if we can't build something that will do the trick.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Wow, that'd be awesome.
Kudos to you, for all that knowledge!
And thank you!


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I was always good with digital electronics, and I've been playing with sound since the days when we used to set a mis-tuned radio next to the computer and create sound by varying the cpu frequency. Or maybe I just have a very loose definition of what qualifies as 'music'.  Anyway, I always assumed that with this project I would have to create my own sound board at some point, and what better way to begin than with something like this? Should be fun, I just gotta gain the knowledge with DCC to put it together in a controllable fashion.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

These wheels (which I'd originally thought were brake wheels) appear to be much bigger in diameter than a 22" Ajax or Miner... probably closer to 28" or 30" -- judging by comparing it's size to people in the foreground.
Therefore I believe they're outrigger cranks (Shdwdrgn was right).

But no one makes an oversize brake wheel, so I'll have to settle for the diameter of a standard Ajax.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

LateStarter said:


> (Shdwdrgn was right)


Let us take a moment to reflect this fine occasion... because we all know it'll never happen again! :cheeky4:



LateStarter said:


> But no one makes an oversize brake wheel, so I'll have to settle for the diameter of a standard Ajax.


Have you looked at other scales? To get a 28" wheel in HO, you need about a 20.5" in S or 15" in O. Who knows? Tichy actually makes a 15" wheel as part of a vertical shaft conversion kit, so maybe there's something similar in O.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Lol!

But yes, I thought of O or S scale, but then I realized that a larger scale brake wheel would also be larger in thickness.
But I'm still going to pursue it. Maybe it'll look ok.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*MW'R'us*_

Anybody who's seen my posts has probably figured out that I'm an MW freak.
If I had enough room, I'd have a separate layout for just MW operations... there are plenty to occupy an entire days worth of dispatch.

I grew up across the fence from an MW yard, where I saw just about every kind of MW equipment you can imagine.
Rail grinders, tie layers, rail layers, tie splitters, cranes, wreck haulers, box-cab diesels, crew cars, tool cars, converted heavyweights, safety yellow cabooses, fire equipment, gondolas & flats for all occasions, and tank cars for every solvent and wash you can think of, etc...
And in sundry colors too.
Almost every piece of the roster had a story behind it (MW equipment is like that).

It's still my ambition to build a comprehensive fleet of maintenance cars and equipment, and try my best to work them into the scheme of things.
The equipment in this thread has been near and dear to me since I saw them in Oregon in 1971 (when they were still roster-active).
I only regret that I wasn't able to see the crane in action as in the above video.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Oh well*_

Looking through the directions, it appears that the Tichy crane is not equipped with outriggers.

So I'll just have to suck it up, and pretend.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

LS don't know if you found fallen flags but thought I would post link.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sp/sp.html

also the outriggers ends are cast into the sides of mine it was an old gould one but don't think that tichy made any changes.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

J.C., thank you!
That's a treasure trove of information.
Some items of immediate interest:
1.) The diesel crane.
2.) #SPMW 7005 -- the number of this crane -- is now the number of a bulkhead flatcar.
3.) There's a great photo of a concrete phone booth.

I saved the link to my homescreen.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

J.C. said:


> also the outriggers ends are cast into the sides of mine it was an old gould one but don't think that tichy made any changes.


That'd be great, J.C., but I don't see them pictured or represented in the schematics.
Haven't opened that packet of parts yet though, but when I do I'll search for it.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

glad you liked the site its one of my favorite ones for research .
also looked om grandt line has a 16 inch S scale ajax brake wheel that would be close to 29 inch in ho part #4062 .


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

J.C. said:


> glad you liked the site its one of my favorite ones for research .
> also looked om grandt line has a 16 inch S scale ajax brake wheel that would be close to 29 inch in ho part #4062 .


Bingo!! :smilie_daumenpos: 
Just looked at it, and it looks perfect.
Another steak dinner on me!! :appl:


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Tender first*_

Okay, we've started on the tender...

As I mentioned, it's a SHELL... no floor no guts, no weight -- just a shell.

Step one is making a floor, with bolsters for trucks to mount on.
I'll make a floor with .080" styrene as a basic platform, and gusset it to the side sills... depending on proper depth for truck clearance.
I'm thinking of cutting out the coal bin, and replacing the faux coal with a shaped section of JWD "Easy-Fit" (coarse) resin coal load for hoppers (very slick-looking coal, with realistic sparkle).

The .080" styrene, plus the resin coal should add a sufficient amount of weight (right now it's lighter than helium).

The ladder has been chucked, and the rear marker lights have been shaved off. Stripping is next. Then Squadron Green or Mr White Putty will be applied and finished smooth.

My search for under-sill caboose or passenger car tool boxes hasn't turned anything up yet. I don't want to use brass on this build, especially with hanging parts. Bowser used to list plastic ones, but I guess they've been discontinued.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

LS if you cant find any tool boxes I do have a box of junk caboose bodies , most all have steel sliding doors if you could use one or two let my know and will cut them off and send to you. they are just the front panel.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

J.C. said:


> LS if you cant find any tool boxes I do have a box of junk caboose bodies , most all have steel sliding doors if you could use one or two let my know and will cut them off and send to you. they are just the front panel.


Thanks, J.C., I really appreciate it. :thumbsup:
But since I posted about it, I found a Precision Scale and a Moloco.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Moloco plastic caboose tool box kit*_
_Good price at Modeltrainstuff_.
_Says it's for GN, but beggars can't be choosers_.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Lift tender (boom car)*_

When I was photographing #7005, I saw no 'traditional' lift tender with it.
The lift tender in attendance was just a 40-foot flat, with a low staked boiler plate fence. It was numbered SPMW 7005-A, and IIRC, was Boxcar Red (rather than the usual Shasta Division 'MW Gray').

Although I have the Tichy 'boom car' kit, I'll bash a Tichy _flatcar_ instead, to replicate what I remember at the scene.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

LateStarter said:


> _*Lift tender (boom car)*_
> 
> When I was photographing #7005, I saw no 'traditional' lift tender with it.
> The lift tender in attendance was just a 40-foot flat, with a low staked boiler plate fence. It was numbered SPMW 7005-A, and IIRC, was Boxcar Red (rather than the usual Shasta Division 'MW Gray').
> ...


I went to a site railroadpicturearchives.net and did a search for steam cranes. They had several photos and one of them was a UP with a Vanderbilt Tender. Hope it helps.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Gramps said:


> They had several photos and one of them was a UP with a Vanderbilt Tender. Hope it helps.


Yeah, a Vandy oil tender would normally be seen coupled to an oil firing crane.
#7005 was converted to oil in 1973 (two years after I visited it).
I had originally planned to use a Bachman Vandy tender, but that would've put me out-of-era.

Photos of that combo are rare though, because most modern-era cranes are diesel.

One of the things the UP & SP had in common was Vandy oil tenders.

BTW, I couldn't find the photo you referred to, but thanks.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

_*Tichy treasure trove...*_

Found an SPMW decal sheet in white SP Roman on the Tichy website.
Set #10252 includes prototype _Relief Tender_ lettering, and authentic warning stencils in English & Spanish. Very cool.

Also found outdoor conical lampshades with brackets & lightbulbs... the lightbulbs are the perfect size for scale doorknobs I've been looking for.
Jackpot!
Tichy is amazing.

Their wheelsets with blunt axles are superb.

FWIW, Hobbylinc has many Tichy items at below Tichy prices. But I'd prefer to give Tichy my business.


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

LS fount the photo in link , and they are definitely brake's.http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sp/sp-mww-ava.jpg


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Why do you say that, J.C.?
What am I missing?


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

if you look carefully under the wheel you can see a chain connected to a bell crank and also the wheel is on a winding mechanism . also looking at the photo again I don't see any slack in chain indicating that the brakes might be set.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Ah...
That does look like a chain-link caboose-type brake mount.
Good eye!
But still, I wonder why it's such a huge wheel... at least 28 to 30-inch diameter, or almost as big as the wheels on the trucks. (?)


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## J.C. (Dec 24, 2016)

can't say for Shure but the bigger the wheel the more force can be applied to the brakes, that's the reason that at one time brakemen carried clubs for more leverage.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Well ok...
Thanks for gettin' on it.
It makes a difference, in that I won't have to 'justify' it on the model, with a lame reason.
Steak dinner! :smilie_daumenpos:


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

BTW, I got a pair of the Grandt Line S-gauge Ajax brake wheels on eBay...
Thanks, bud.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

J.C. said:


> at one time brakemen carried clubs for more leverage.


Lol, before my grandfather was a New Haven conductor, he was a Yard Boss.
He carried a club to bust heads (thieves & vandals).


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