# Almost extremely new - Freewheeling flywheel



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

New to the forum and relatively new to model railroading... but have really enjoyed reading various posts. Now for the question, I have a 3 year old American Models Baldwin S12. I took the shell off for the first time tonight and noticed that the brass flywheel is completely loose on the motor shaft. It spins extremely easily to the touch although the motor shaft is stationary. I thought the purpose of the flywheel was to give the motor/drivetrain some addtional mass which would help to "damp" out any surges and vibration in the system, thus giving the engine a more realistic start and stop.

Help... my head and flywheel are spinning!


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> New to the forum and relatively new to model railroading... but have really enjoyed reading various posts. Now for the question, I have a 3 year old American Models Baldwin S12. I took the shell off for the first time tonight and noticed that the brass flywheel is completely loose on the motor shaft. It spins extremely easily to the touch although the motor shaft is stationary. I thought the purpose of the flywheel was to give the motor/drivetrain some addtional mass which would help to "damp" out any surges and vibration in the system, thus giving the engine a more realistic start and stop.
> 
> Help... my head and flywheel are spinning!


Welcome, and to answer your question, ya got me!!!


----------



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks FN. I guess a call to American Models is in order. Always like to get someone elses opinion though.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> Thanks FN. I guess a call to American Models is in order. Always like to get someone elses opinion though.


Yup, I'm really sorry but I would hate like heck to give you bad info and maybe ruin your engine...


----------



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

No need to apologize. You guys are always SUPER generous with your time and advice. I'll post the info when I get an answer from AM. When I get a minute I post "Cliff notes" of my re-entry into model railroading. You've probably heard it before a thousand times from others but it's always fun reading other fans' histories.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> No need to apologize. You guys are always SUPER generous with your time and advice. I'll post the info when I get an answer from AM. When I get a minute I post "Cliff notes" of my re-entry into model railroading. You've probably heard it before a thousand times from others but it's always fun reading other fans' histories.


Yes sir..


----------



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

Just got off the phone with American Models. They said the flywheel should be firmly secured to the motor shaft. I'll loctite it... but not sure why it came loose in the first place. Only a Xmas time engine (3yrs old). 

On a side note, that same Baldwin has always had "challenging" couplers... off-center, slow to lock etc, so I mentioned it to the American Models representative and he asked if I wanted to *buy* some replacements. Keep in mind over the past 3 years I've bought several items from them (rolling stock and locos) totaling several hundred $$$. The rep was aware of my past purchase and yet he still wanted me to buy 2 couplers ($4) to replace defective ones. Can't wait until MTH brings S-Helper back! Guess that's why the old AF stuff is so appealing. No problems with customer service or warranty.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> Just got off the phone with American Models. They said the flywheel should be firmly secured to the motor shaft. I'll loctite it... but not sure why it came loose in the first place.


Just out of curiosity, any idea what was supposed to hold it tight in the first place? Any evidence of a keyway? Pressfit? Adhesive?

Loctite sounds like a good call.

TJ


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> Just got off the phone with American Models. They said the flywheel should be firmly secured to the motor shaft. I'll loctite it... but not sure why it came loose in the first place. Only a Xmas time engine (3yrs old).
> 
> On a side note, that same Baldwin has always had "challenging" couplers... off-center, slow to lock etc, so I mentioned it to the American Models representative and he asked if I wanted to *buy* some replacements. Keep in mind over the past 3 years I've bought several items from them (rolling stock and locos) totaling several hundred $$$. The rep was aware of my past purchase and yet he still wanted me to buy 2 couplers ($4) to replace defective ones. Can't wait until MTH brings S-Helper back! Guess that's why the old AF stuff is so appealing. No problems with customer service or warranty.


If, after spending a lot of money at their business, and they won't send a couple couplers your way free, I would tell them to pound salt. As a side note, years ago I bought a new John Deere garden tractor at the local JD store. The following year I bought 2 new ATV's and a new trailer at the same store, all cash.Within several months the battery died on one of the ATV's and I went back to the dealer.He told they won't cover the battery under any warranty, and that I would have to buy another one at $100 bucks.I got very irate and told them in the last 12 months, I had spent over $11,000 thousand bucks, cash, at their dealership, and if iI couldn't get a new battery from them, I would take all future business to the OTHER JD dealer in town, plus I would tell all my friends. I had a new battery on the counter within 5 minutes, with an apology.


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

As a Flyer fan, I'm not familiar at all with American models other than I've heard of them. I take it they are somewhat cheap in their construction and design? Obviously they are when it comes to keeping their customers satisfied....


----------



## markjs (Dec 11, 2010)

To Don M.
In my opinion American Models is not cheap in their design and/or construction. I have tons of stuff from them and everything works really well. The rolling stock is very reasonably priced compared to S-Helper and Lionel S gauge, and has enough detail for the operator. Their locomotives look great and perform very well. If they charged a customer 4 bucks for couplers maybe Ron at AM didn't know that the engine was used only a few times. For quality and value American Models is hard to beat.
Mark


----------



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

Mark - I agree. AM stuff is a nice balance of quality/detail/price. Their rolling stock is ESPECIALLY well priced. Nice tank-cars, some for under $30. S-Helper is really sweet but also a bit more coin. It's a shame the AM customer service was soooo bad. The rep actually suggested I take the couplers apart and remove any flashing. He repeated that two more times. I almost said "why don't *you* come over and remove the flashing!" Although there is no excess flashing, if there was, that would be a quality control problem and would warrant replacement couplers. I'll be sending an email to AM and ask that it be forwarded to Ron. I've spoken to him multiple times and he has always been very helpful, but never on a complaint issue. Companies can be all "peaches and cream" when they are taking a order, but the real test is when a problem occurs. I'll give Ron a chance to respond.

Flyernut - REALLY sorry to hear about your experience with the JD dealer. That bites. In the end they gave you only what you deserved, nothing more, nothing less. Certainly your request was reasonable and fair. Unfortunately it cost EVERYONE more than it should have. More time, money, angst.

TJ - No keyway... shaft too small. Not pressfit. I suspect a poor application of adhesive or it was skipped entirely. Looking forward to improved performance with complete. I'll be using Loctite RC609 which is a cylindrical component retaining compound. Used it in the past on bearings/shafts with good results.


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, 2gen ... good luck with the flywheel fix.

TJ


----------



## Strummer (Jan 6, 2013)

I have some American Models equipment,including the track I use, and I find it all to be top-rate.
Have also contacted AM several times, and Ron himself has always responded, straightaway.
Guess you could call me a fan, of both AF(Gilbert) and AM...
Mark in Oregon


----------



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

I contacted Ron directly via email and he apologized for the service (lack of) I initially recieved and is sending two couplers at no charge. He also offered a great deal on an Amtrak set, considerably below his already discounted online price... and so of course I took him up on his offer. If you're reading this Ron... YOU DA MAN!


PS - the Loctite on the flywheel did the trick. Nice smooth start-up and coast-down. Better than I ever remember. Perhaps it was loose from the beginning. Can't leave well enough alone... as now I'm installing directional lighting in the S12 for the reverse direction. Wifey keeps shaking her head!


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> I contacted Ron directly via email and he apologized for the service (lack of) I initially recieved and is sending two couplers at no charge. He also offered a great deal on an Amtrak set, considerably below his already discounted online price... and so of course I took him up on his offer. If you're reading this Ron... YOU DA MAN!
> 
> 
> PS - the Loctite on the flywheel did the trick. Nice smooth start-up and coast-down. Better than I ever remember. Perhaps it was loose from the beginning. Can't leave well enough alone... as now I'm installing directional lighting in the S12 for the reverse direction. Wifey keeps shaking her head!


Glad it all worked out for you.. Sometimes a friendly "push" helps quite a lot..


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I meant no disrespect with my statement. It just seemed odd that something that should remain fixed would suddenly come loose. Your Loctite solution is probably a very good choice. Although you made no mention of their response to the problem, I'm curious if they offered to repair it or gave you some guidance on what to do to fix it?

Further, to make matters worse, when you seek customer service for a separate issue, considering the problem they are already aware of, you are still met with nothing. That to me says little about the loyalty to their customers.

That was the basis of my comments. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.


----------



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

No disrespect taken... at least on my end. Can't speak for the other guys on this thread. Re, your statement that it was "odd"... I agree, but am not getting too bent out of shape about it. The cust service rep (not Ron) suggested the fix but did not express remorse... admittedly "remorse" is a bit strong, but you get the point. I'm chaulking up to "no morning coffee". 

I agree that given the two separate issues maybe a more generous response would have been appropriate. I keep telling myself that I've had bad days when I'm sure I've been a complete LOSER and I wouldn't want somone to judge me on that.

In the end, Ron was awesome, and if anything, these issues have compelled me to dig a little deeper into how the American Models stuff works. I've learned alot. After all, isn't that how we all got started in the first place? Tear it apart and figure it out. That's half the fun.

Besides...if that's your idea of an offense, keep on offending!


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> No disrespect taken... at least on my end. Can't speak for the other guys on this thread. Re, your statement that it was "odd"... I agree, but am not getting too bent out of shape about it. The cust service rep (not Ron) suggested the fix but did not express remorse... admittedly "remorse" is a bit strong, but you get the point. I'm chaulking up to "no morning coffee".
> 
> I agree that given the two separate issues maybe a more generous response would have been appropriate. I keep telling myself that I've had bad days when I'm sure I've been a complete LOSER and I wouldn't want somone to judge me on that.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're going to fit right in here buddy!!!Life is way too short to not enjoy it!!..Loren


----------



## 2genflyers (Jan 14, 2013)

...like a nut in an asylum!


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

2genflyers said:


> ...like a nut in an asylum!


----------

