# Peco Insulfrog turnout question...the little wires on the bottom



## Walman (Dec 18, 2011)

Sorry for such a basic question but I notice on all my Peco Insulfrog turnouts there is a small wire that is folded under the ties at the "far end" of the switch. I assume in my DCC operation, where I will have drops at regular intervals including on both sides of all switches, I can ignore this wire. Am I missing something? If I am correct can I cut it off?

Thank you!

Walman


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

The small wire takes care of the continuity within the turnout.You shouldn't cut it off or even bother with it.Peco Insulfrog turnouts are very DCC friendly.


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## Walman (Dec 18, 2011)

Brakeman Jake said:


> The small wire takes care of the continuity within the turnout.You shouldn't cut it off or even bother with it.Peco Insulfrog turnouts are very DCC friendly.


The problem is on several of my turnouts they wire at the far end is long...way long...such that the loose end dangles 3-4 inches out from under the switch. These are new switches. But for example I purchased two 3-way switches and one has no excess wire at all but one has may 5 inches of excess. I can post a picture if needed but thought perhaps this was a common situation.

Walman


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I haven't seen such a thing yet on Peco Insulfrog turnouts...no reason for this.However,many Peco turnouts do have wires like you describe wich are for powering frogs on Electrofrog type turnouts so I believe your turnouts aren't all insulfrog types.There wouldn't be any reason since their frogs are plastic.


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## Davidfd85 (Jul 4, 2011)

It sounds like they are defective switches. I have and just got a bunch of them including two of the 3 ways and have none with excess wire at all on them. Did you get them new or used ?


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

New peco turnouts do not have any wires. please post some pics of what you have.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I agree with David, Jake and Southern.

I have about 20 or so Peco Insulfrog turnouts and there are
no dangling wires of any length. The visible wires under the turnout
should be imbedded in the plastic ties.

I see that you say these are new. Even so, it occurs to me that the wires
may have been soldered onto the rails as drops. Is that a
possibility? It certainly is not a standard of Peco though.

A pic of what you have found would be helpful.

Don


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## Walman (Dec 18, 2011)

*Pics*

If the attached PDF doesn't work for you guys let me know. Pics 1 is the first pic in the document and it runs "down" from there. The boxes on all of the switches say they are "Insulfrog" but in the case of #3 and #4 I am wondering if they are "Electrofrog"?


Pic #1 - is just the top of the 3 switches in question. No questions/comments. 
Pic #2 - is what I am used to seeing on the bottom of a PECO switch...this is what I consider normal.
Pic #3 - this switch's wire is a bit long but tucked nicely into the switch. But I am curious what this is for. I assumed feeder for the little "V" shaped rail at the "top" of the switch but wasn't sure. 
Pic #4 - The long wires I originally described. My son unpacked this switch (and the 1-2 others I have like this (not 3-ways)) so I can't say for sure how disorganized the wires were coming out of the box. I thought perhaps this is just a "poor wiring quality" version of Pic #3.

It appears to me upon inspection that the integrity of the soldering underneath the switches is the same on all switches some just have longer wires. So my basic question are:


What are these wires for?
Can I snip the excess wire off (not changing the soldering on the switch itself) so my switch lies flat
 Do I need to return them? The problem here is I think I bought these switches almost a year ago and they have sat in a drawer since so not even sure where I got them.

As always I appreciate your help.

Walman


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I couldn't get to your pics so I'm guessing here.Insulfrog turnouts have a short piece of wire imbedded in the plastic that are jumpers to ensure conductivity within the turnout itself.If the frogs (V shaped piece where diverging tracks meet) are plastic like they should be,there's no possible use for the excess wire length.I'd guess that the automatic soldering machine went a little off for a while and that a number of turnouts passed through quality control unnoticed.

Do not cut the jumper (imbedded part) but you don't need he excess...just cut it off.

Then if you have a few Electrofrog type turnouts (metal frogs),then the wire would be for powering this frog.But then,powering the frog is optional...I have installed quite a few of these without powering a single frog without a single issue.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

They are electrofrog.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I only have to electrofrogs, neither of them had the wires like yours. It dose not look like some thing Peco would have done.


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

Sounds like you got returns and someone soldered drops on there and then decided to return them. I once bought a chain for my chainsaw and when I pulled it out and looked, it was completely dull and abused. Some people have no conscience.


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## Walman (Dec 18, 2011)

So back to my original question since I am running DCC and will have feeders on both sides of my switches (close proximity anyway) I am OK with these switches correct? Can I just snip off the excess, not touch the soldering/contact under the switch itself, and mosey along?


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## Hutch (Dec 19, 2012)

I can't help I have no experience with them but after looking at the photos, it looks like an electro frog and the wire is supposed to be there if you want juice to the frog. IMO, if the frog isn't insulated, you'll get shorts if you don't power them and use them as intended. Hopefully someone with more experience will come along and give you your answer.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Looking at the pics,they are indeed Electrofrog type turnouts and these extending wires are normal.Now wether you need them or not is up to you.

First,you do need the jumpers (imbedded in plastic) as they make sure the frog is of the same polarity as the moving rail,as it changes when the moving rail moves from side to side.If tracks are kept clean and the moving rail contact is good on either side,you don't need to power the frog any other way.

However,it happens that the contact of the moving rail isn't perfect (dirt or else) so many modelers choose to power the frog with an auxiliairy device (switch,relay or else) thus the presence of the extra wire length.This makes the turnout nearly failproof,whatever type loco they're running.

Truth is though,if you're running modern model diesels with good current pickups (like all wheel),they'll likely go over the frog witout a glitch even if current isn't perfect all the time.Older models,or very short diesels and even more short steamers will likely have occasional issues with non powered frogs.

So,for the moment,I suggest you install your turnouts and have these wires sticking though your benchwork just in case one or more of the turnouts became troublesome,in wich case you'd only have to supply power without removing the turnout.Most likely you won't have to.I never did.

In any case though,these Electrofrog turnouts need that you istall an insulating joiner at both legs of the frogs (as per Peco's instructions that come with them).


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Southern is right.

They are not insulfrog turnouts. Note where the diverging rails
meet...there would be insulation to separate them. These
would need special insulating joiners and a switch to control
polarity in the frog.

I've never used Electrofrogs. Looking at the loose\
wires in your pics my
first thought was that they were manufacturing errors.

If you wanted Insulfrog you would want to return them
Insulfrog is the way to go for DCC.

Don


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

Google peco turnouts. look at Images. I did and I could not find any with wires like those hanging off of the turnout.


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