# Peco Turnouts



## jark (Jan 4, 2015)

In my new N scale layout, I will be using code 80 track and turnouts. It will be a DC only layout, that being said, would there be any reason to use electrofrogs? With DC only, seems to me that insulfrogs would be just fine.

What say you? 

jark


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Peco turnouts*

I'm not certain of Peco's terminology. If "electrofrog" means a metal frog that is insulated from the rest of the turnout; I recommend you use it. If you ever switch to DCC, this type will work much better. If you stick with DC forever, it will do no harm. You did not say whether you planned on using some sort of motor to operate the turnout's points. If you prefer manual operation then some sort of electrical switch will need to be attached to set the polarity of the frog. The "insulfrog" type's "advantage" consists of a plastic frog, which obviously can't provide power to a train.
The simplest switch arrangement I've seen is a slide switch mounted next to the throw bar and connected by a bit of stiff wire, (the paper clip kind) through small holes drilled in the slide switch's handle, and the turnout's throw bar. Flipping the slide switch moves the points takes care of frog polarity at the same time. I've seen an ad for caboose industries manual ground throws, saying that they now have built in electric contacts. I've not seen, or used this product so I don't know how reliable these contacts are.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*revised reply to "peco turnouts" post.*



traction fan said:


> I'm not certain of Peco's terminology. If "electrofrog" means a metal frog that is insulated from the rest of the turnout; I recommend you use it. If you ever switch to DCC, this type will work much better. If you stick with DC forever, it will do no harm. You did not say whether you planned on using some sort of motor to operate the turnout's points. If you prefer manual operation then some sort of electrical switch will need to be attached to set the polarity of the frog. The "insulfrog" type's "advantage" consists of a plastic frog, which obviously can't provide power to a train.
> The simplest switch arrangement I've seen is a slide switch mounted next to the throw bar and connected by a bit of stiff wire, (the paper clip kind) through small holes drilled in the slide switch's handle, and the turnout's throw bar. Flipping the slide switch moves the points takes care of frog polarity at the same time. I've seen an ad for caboose industries manual ground throws, saying that they now have built in electric contacts. I've not seen, or used this product so I don't know how reliable these contacts are.


 Sorry for the errors in my earlier response.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

You can use the Insulfrog type if...1-you don't mind the looks of the black plastic frog and...2-you don't plan on using older and/or cheaper shorter locomotives that have minimal current pickup.With the newer models with all-wheel pickup,locos will go through insulfrog turnouts just nice.However,you may have a small risk of issues when a loco is stopped over a turnout and the track isn't very clean.

And DC or DCC doesn't matter...both will have issues with bad conductivity.Using C80,you have the option of Electrofrog and Insulfrog types,I have used both without issues.If you decide to go C55,then no option...Electrofrog only available.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The Peco Electrofrog is powered so it's polarity changes
with the points. Therefore, you must use an insulated
joiner between the frog rails and adjacent tracks to
avoid short circuits. You may then need to add drops
from these frog rail adjoining tracks.

The Peco Insulfrog is obviously the easiest to use if you don't have the
rare short loco with insufficient wheel power pickup. All my
locos have all wheel power pickup so I've never had a
stall or blink problem with any of my 20 or so Peco Insulfrogs.

Don


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## jark (Jan 4, 2015)

Thanks to all of you crossties for the info.


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

*N or HO?*

Hi-- I introduced myself somewhere!! Anyway, I have a bunch of n-scale stuff and was going to get back into model RR. The more I work with N, the more i wonder if this is the best scale for me? I am 69 and need reading glasses for EVERYTHING. I want to do the N-layout to use the stuff i have. Also it will allow me to do scenery and landscape etc on a smaller scale. However I am uncertain if I should do my next layout (4x8 max) in N or HO. HO being bigger may be an asset for a 69 year old. Also there seems to be more 'stuff' in HO. I really like the steam era and I am having problems finding steam engines in N. 

So-- those of you who have done both N and HO-- what are your thoughts?

By the way, Bachmann seems to be the only player in N-steam. Any comments. there seems to be a wide range of onions about Bachmann. (of course one of my N locos is a Life-Like so ... anyway!).

Also, is anyone here aware of anyone in Arkansas into Model Railroads? 

Blessings,
Mike


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Mike, I'm 68, have had glasses since hi school, and have nerve damage in my hands. I am trying to build an N-scale layout too. I use lots of pliers of various sizes, and other tools too. I agree that N can be difficult to work in, but as you said you can get so much more into a specified space compared to HO, and I am very limited in space. Yes, HO is much more detailed and bigger, so somewhat easier to handle, but you only get ½ the stuff into the same space.

I bought two matching Kato PA-1 locos for my railroad, and am looking for a good steamer from the same 1950s-60s era. I also have heard that Bachman is of questionable quality, so I'm not jumping into a purchase until I learn lot more.

Just letting you know my experience with it and my intentions. Good luck with your decisions. And blessings to you too!!
....Bob


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Mike you already know how small the N scale gear is. I had a 4 X 8 complex
N scale layout when I was in my 30s and had difficulty working on it.

A tiny fraction of an inch between rails with a joiner can be a 6" to
a foot in N Scale, which means you must be much more accurate in
your track work.

I join the others and do recommend that you go to HO. You can sell
your N gear in our For Sale or trade section at no cost. The only
requirement is that you place a price on each item or group of
items. 

Don


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## jark (Jan 4, 2015)

Mike - There is a Model Train Show in Rogers on Feb 28.


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## jark (Jan 4, 2015)

Mike - There is a Model Train Show in Rogers on Feb 28. You might want to check it out!
jark


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

Jark, Thanks for the heads up!! I will try to make it (assuming the ice on my road will have melted by then!!
Mike


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## jark (Jan 4, 2015)

*mike*

where do you live?


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

I am in MOuntain View, on 40 acres south of town. ANd it looks like you are in Rogers. HOpee to make contact perhaps when/if it get to the train show!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Scale choice is one of the first big decisions we modelers have to make. Like many, I started out with an O-scale "tinplate" train set. I later modeled in HO-scale as a teenager, and now N-scale as an adult. I'm 66 now and I wear reading glasses if it's within a few feet,distance glasses to see past the hood of my van, and an Optivisor magnifier when I'm working on small stuff.
Whichever scale YOU like is best for you. One determining factor is the attitude / goals you have about your layout. Several people have posted on this forum about "being able to fit more stuff" in the space, using a smaller scale. Nothing evil in that approach.
However if we are truly "modeling a railroad", as opposed to running lots of trains around 
in geometric patterns (figure 8 within an oval, and track everywhere); then it might help to look at it differently.
Most of a real railroad, apart from yards and major junctions, consists of a very long, and not very wide piece of real estate with one track running through it. Rather than cramming the maximum amount of "stuff" into our always too small spaces; why not find a small section of a real railroad that looks interesting; and put in only what the real railroad ( called a prototype) did. Using this approach, that 4'x8' space can accommodate N-scale, HO-scale or even some O-scale! As for available stuff, HO,N, and O scales,in that order are the most popular. The first two offer much more stuff than most of us can buy. N-scale steamers? try Kato brand. They make excellent steam and diesel locomotives.
If your just starting out, you don't have to do all the research and planning yourself. There are dozens of books,magazines, and videos that can help.
With them, and some judicious restraint on not trying to model everything; you may surprise yourself with how realistic and interesting a first layout you can build! 
Whatever you build though, know this. You CAN"T do it "wrong".
Any building project is a learning experience.

We will be glad to help you with yours.

Traction fan


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

Dear Traction,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. At this point I am just lookiing at a layout with some whimsical houses (old Christmas village buildings about n scale) with a few turn outs, some mountains and maybe a creek or lake. I am sorta stuck with N at this point since I have a lot of the stuff. I have seen a couple of plans you build on a door and it looks like a good approach at this point. IF it works out and i maintain the interest i would probably go to HO. Time will tell.
Thanks again,
Mike


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Help getting started in N-scale*

One of the best beginner's books out there is "Getting started in N-scale model railroading".
It is available from kalmbach.com, or at train stores. I highly recommend this book to anyone just starting out. It has chapters on bench work, track,locomotives, passenger and freight cars, scenery,wiring & control systems, Etc. all are short and easy to understand. Great for "newbies" but even as a veteran modeler, I sometimes refer to it as a reference.

regards:

Traction fan


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## dd1228 (Jan 26, 2015)

I too am 69 years old and have a beautiful 4 x 8 n scale layout. No problem with size, just takes some getting used to from HO. I always want to make my roads too wide thinking of my old HO. But I got used to it. To me, a 4 x 8 HO layout just wouldn't cut it.


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

Dear DD-- I am going to go wtih N for now-- build on a door --30"x80".I like the idea of smaller but I just hope i can find a reliable loco at a reasonable price-- at this point i am looking at KATO as opposed to Bachmann.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

mike in arkansas said:


> ... I just hope i can find a reliable loco at a reasonable price-- at this point i am looking at KATO as opposed to Bachmann.


Mike, in my opinion the difference between Kato and Bachman is the difference between a Lincoln and a Ford...the Kato quality is way above. They aren't cheap, but they really aren't that much more than lower quality locos. Nothing is this hobby is cheap anymore! Good luck with your layout... :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Fire21 said:


> Mike, in my opinion the difference between Kato and Bachman is the difference between a Lincoln and a Ford...the Kato quality is way above. They aren't cheap, but they really aren't that much more than lower quality locos. Nothing is this hobby is cheap anymore! Good luck with your layout... :smilie_daumenpos:


I always thought Ford is a quality car these days, or is it the Lincoln that is the lesser? Forgive my ignorance on US car brands.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I think the comparison was on features rather than quality
issues. Ford is a less expensive car, Lincoln is considered
more of a luxury car. They are both products of the
Ford Motor Co.

I'm a Dodge Ram man, myself.

Don


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Cycleops said:


> I always thought Ford is a quality car these days, or is it the Lincoln that is the lesser? Forgive my ignorance on US car brands.


The Ford is the less expensive (I NEVER say "cheaper" when it comes to cars!!). Lincoln has always been the more expensive, luxurious offering from Ford. Same as a comparison between a Chevrolet (lesser)and a Cadillac (more).

So, what I'm saying is, in my opinion, Kato locos are better than Bachmans.


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

ok ok kids-- stop fighting and don't make me stop the train and come back there!!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*kato Vs. Bachman*

Mike;
I read the amusing automotive debate. I will use the same analogy, since were all somewhat familiar with the relative quality of auto brands. However, I'll try to keep the auto stuff short;as I don't want you to stop the train and give us kids a whopping!
In my opinion, the difference between Kato and Bachman, is more like the difference between a Mercedes and anything from a half way decent Ford to a badly used Yugo!
The Kato company has yet to produce a bad loco. The company is owned, logically enough by a Mr. Kato. He is literally putting his own name and reputation on every product. He is also an avid model railroader, and he seems to take quality very seriously.
Meanwhile, at the other end of the reliability scale, you find Bachman. In the early days of N-scale, The name Bachman was synonymous with junk! Their locos were noisy, poor looking, and had only two speeds, 300mph, and stop!
Things have improved at Bachman. They have tried to up the quality of their product, and in some cases, have succeeded. Their locomotives remain somewhat of an unknown commodity though, and if you decide to buy Bachman; thoroughly test the individual loco before buying. That, of course, requires access to a good train store. While I'm fortunate enough to have one nearby, I don't know if you do.
I do know that you can't go wrong with Kato. They are worth every penny!

Good luck
Traction fan


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

Again thanks for your input- it is interesting to know something of the history of a company. Alas the closest hobby store to me is over 100 miles away (in little rock) and they have no RR displays. They are much more into RC cars and planes. I hope to go to the train show in Springdale AR on Saturday and talk with folks there and have a chance to see some of the layouts in action. I hope to make contact with JARK so I hope he will be there. I sent him a private message but have not heard back from him


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Train store? What ya'll mean a train store?*

Mike;
I checked the list of train stores in the back of my Model Railroader magazine. Under Arkansas,
I found none! The magazines list is made up of stores that advertise in their magazine; so that doesn't mean there isn't a single train shop in the whole state of Arkansas; just none that advertise in Model Railroader.
I guess I'm double spoiled here in San Diego, Calif. Not only do we have mild sunny weather all year round; but a good train store 15 min. away. The store I use is called Reeds Hobby Shop. They specialize in model trains, and do offer mail order and online orders, if you're interested. 
I'm glad to hear that you are going to a train show. Their a great place to meet other modelers, and see what's new in the hobby.
Are you brand new to model railroading? If so, and you need to ask something, let me know. There are some good books, magazines, and videos available. I can recommend a few, aimed at beginners, that might help, if you want.

Good Luck,

Traction fan


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## mike in arkansas (Feb 14, 2015)

Ok-- I did find on the Kato website a place in Dardanelle that carries some Kato Hobby Shop Deluxe. It was a 2 hour drive but well worth it. The owner is proably in his 80s and a retired Air line pilot (707s etc.) VERY helpful. And I scored a couple of good deals: AThearn Overton set of old timey passenger cars!! (Alas something new: Knuckle couplers and all my existing cars have Rapido-- so now to research those! It sounds like not all knuckles connect to other knuckles and perhaps Kato has their own style!). Anyway, it was very helpful to talk to Charlie and play with some of his layouts both N and HO. Hope to visit again next time I go down that way.

Just for interest: Dardanelle is an old port town on the Arkansas river with old rail roads stuff there as well-- town must be over 100 years old!

Blessings, Mike


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

mike in arkansas said:


> Just for interest: Dardanelle is an old port town on the Arkansas river with old rail roads stuff there as well-- town must be over 100 years old!
> 
> Blessings, Mike


Only a hundreds years old. I once lived in a village that was more than five hundred years old!


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## dd1228 (Jan 26, 2015)

N scale is the way to go if you have space limitations. I'm pushing 70 years old and have no trouble with the small size. I like the Peco code 55 electrofrog turnouts, not hard at all to wire. Also re Bachman steamers, I have a Spectrum 2-8-0 and it runs great on level track. On a 2% grade it won't pull very many cars.


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## jark (Jan 4, 2015)

*peco turnouts*

DD1228 - Agreed, N scale is the right one for me. I'm 77 and can still work on the locos and get wheels on track. Regarding traction on all locos, one of the other crossties mentioned a product in a post the other day and I checked it out. It is called "Bullfrog Snot". The video looked really interesting and seemed like a solution for poor traction locos.


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## dd1228 (Jan 26, 2015)

Yeah, I've heard of it too. It sounds kind of messy to me to try and apply it to the wheels of an N scale loco. It will also kill the electrical pick up on the wheels it's applied too. My Bachman loco has traction tires on one set of drivers and still cannot pull more than 5 cars up the 2% grade.


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