# Just Received my Lionel/Flyer Berkshire #765



## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Boy not too much changes here; can remember getting A/F goodies when 5yrs old. (A long time ago) Just received (Via Fed Ex)on X-Mas Eve my 765 Berksire from Charles Ro Co.(Biggest Lionel Dealer). Very well packaged (Double Box) and at first glance looks like a very nice piece. Will have to read the manual well as this can run on AC or DC. Can't wait to try it.
The new electronics is just amazing on what they can do. Will report when we get it running.
Anybody else getting one?? These units are under $300! Larry

P.S. Merry Christmas to everyone!


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## Gilbertologist (Oct 31, 2015)

I picked up the C&O version at my LHS on the 23rd. Ran it for a while on their test track and all features worked as advertised. Used a Z4000 @ 18 volts. Prodigious smoker timed to 2 cuffs /rev. Sound was loud. I ran it right out of the box. Did not crack open the manual as I have LionChief and TMCC. Just put in the batteries on the remote, switched it on and raised the track voltage. I'll run it more after the holidays on. Carpet Central layout.
Don
P.S. I have some MOV files on my iPad which I tried to upload, but I guess this file type isn't supported on the forum.


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Gilbertologist said:


> I picked up the C&O version at my LHS on the 23rd.
> 
> 
> Gilbertologist: Very nice unit.:appl: Did not know until I read the manual that each flyerchief control is "setup" for a perticular engine. eg.: My 765 (NPR) would not work with your nice (C&O). By doing this one could run both engines on the same track! Have you tried your C&O w/o the remote on the straight trainsformer?? I told that the results are not as good as with the remote. (Smoke& some features will not work as well). Thanks for the input>Larry


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## Gilbertologist (Oct 31, 2015)

llskis said:


> Gilbertologist said:
> 
> 
> > I picked up the C&O version at my LHS on the 23rd.
> ...


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks for the input. OK; have mine running now and it is simply amazing!:appl: Runs/sounds/acts the the real thing.:sold: Running it off of my #16 rectiformer (DC). Rectiformer puts out about 14-15 DC Volts. Everything works well except the coupler that requires a tad more voltage. All this for under $300. All cast and all the Bells/Whistles work well. I would like to have seen my Dad's face if he saw something like this in the 50's. Yes I'm still a purist with the old Flyer pieces but these new toys are something else. Larry


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

All of my Legacy and TMCC engines have 100% reliability at 12V or higher. I have the Legacy layout voltage set between 13V and 14V. Raising the voltage to 16V has no observable effect on the engine operation. The voltage to the smoke unit is limited to 13V so higher track voltages do not affect smoke output. I set the voltage at that level since all of my rolling stock is original Gilbert with 14V bulbs. I prefer for now to not change all those bulbs to 24V for now. I think conventional transformer operation of the new FlyerChief engines is not the way to go unless they have to share the track with original Gilbert engines. Legacy and FlyerChief work on the same track because neither type of engine sees the other control system and both use the same constant track voltage, which needs to be AC if using Legacy. The FlyerChief power supply is a low current DC supply, adequate for one engine and 3 passenger cars. The Berkshire runs with AC or DC.


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

AmFlyer said:


> All of my Legacy and TMCC engines have 100% reliability at 12V or higher. I have the Legacy layout voltage set between 13V and 14V. Raising the voltage to 16V has no observable effect on the engine operation. The voltage to the smoke unit is limited to 13V so higher track voltages do not affect smoke output. I set the voltage at that level since all of my rolling stock is original Gilbert with 14V bulbs. I prefer for now to not change all those bulbs to 24V for now. I think conventional transformer operation of the new FlyerChief engines is not the way to go unless they have to share the track with original Gilbert engines. Legacy and FlyerChief work on the same track because neither type of engine sees the other control system and both use the same constant track voltage, which needs to be AC if using Legacy. The FlyerChief power supply is a low current DC supply, adequate for one engine and 3 passenger cars. The Berkshire runs with AC or DC.


AmFlyer: Then the way I take it one can run the TMCC System along with the FlyerChief control>Correct? Sounds like the TMCC will apply the 18 V.AC to the track and the new
Birkshire will not respond till the FlyerChief tells it too>Correct? Then when we run conventional engines we keep the FlyerChief unit shut off and command the engine with TMCC I trust. By doing this it will keep the total wiring to the tracks down and less confusing.
Thanks: Larry P.S. Correct the above statements if I am wrong.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

You are correct. And as long as the Legacy base is connected to the track the TMCC/Legacy engines will not enter conventional mode, so they will stand idle when you move the transformer handle to run the conventional engines. The Flyerchief engines will only respond when they get the radio signal from their dedicated remote when there is 18V on the track. I do not yet have one, but a FlyerChief engine may switch to conventional mode if the track voltage is lowered to run other engines.


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## Gilbertologist (Oct 31, 2015)

If the FlyerChief remote isn't switched on and you put 18volts on the track it would be in conventional mode and accelerate accordingly! So switch on the FlyerChief remote if you want to share the same block as a TMCC locomotive. The TMCC will respond to the cab-1, cab-1L, or cab2 and the Berk only to its dedicated remote. For what it's worth 18 VAC is what Lionel recommends -- RTM. Just don't go higher. When running a lighted passenger car consist I usually dial it back. You'll have to be the judge as to whether all functions work to your satisfaction at lower voltages. The fussiest thing tends to be the coil couplers as they receive track voltage through a driver on the board. When the track voltage is too low the coupler won't open.
Interestingly L is coming out with a LionChief+ handheld that can address three locomotives. Don't know if this applies to FlyerChief as well. 

AC


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks again:appl: to all the comments and advice. The only thing I noticed is that the smoke unit is a little on the inconsistent side. Sometimes it will start smoking in about a minute then sometimes it take up to 5 minutes. It is real hard to tell if there is enough smoke fluid in the system. It is real easy to overfill the unit. Larry


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Your Berk looks beautiful.. I'm just not that sold on Lionel stuff anymore, especially the smoke units.. No dis-respect intended..


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Gilbertologist said:


> I picked up the C&O version at my LHS on the 23rd. Ran it for a while on their test track and all features worked as advertised.
> 
> Gilbertologist: Question on your C&O Birkshire> In the Lionel catalog it is advertised that all Birkshires have "Flickering firebox in cab". My NPR does not have this feature.
> Does yours have it?? Just wondering. Larry
> ...


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## Gilbertologist (Oct 31, 2015)

I ran my C & O some more today, but forgot to check for a firebox light. I was curious about the smoke output and the electro coupler. The coupler would hardly work at all until I applied a few drops of Labelle 108. Now it fires 100% as low as 12 volts AC. I could generate smoke with as little as 13 VAC. It looked good at the lowest speed step, but wasn't noticeable at speed. 16 VAC was better, but still not very noticeable at speed. Turns out 18 VAC gave the best result at medium to higher speeds. Voltages were monitored with a digital true RMS meter. Power today was a 250 watt Lionel ZW. Smoke fluid was MTH. I did need to use the pipette included with the engine to add fluid. The old AF funnel didn't have a long enough tube. 

ACG


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Gilbertologist: Thanks for the comments; few more from me.:


I was curious about the smoke output and the electro coupler. The coupler would hardly work at all until I applied a few drops of Labelle 108. Now it fires 100% as low as 12 volts AC.> Nice idea; will do the same for mine

I could generate smoke with as little as 13 VAC. It looked good at the lowest speed step, but wasn't noticeable at speed. 16 VAC was better, but still not very noticeable at speed. Turns out 18 VAC gave the best result at medium to higher speeds.>About the same results that I got with one more comment>At low speeds it seems that 15VDC give a little better results. 

Power today was a 250 watt Lionel ZW.>My power is A/F 30B & Rectiformer #16

Smoke fluid was MTH.>Hard to find best combo. Been trying Lionel#6-62909/"Big Puff" from American Models and A/F Ceder. Can not determine which one is best so far. Very hard to determine when to add.

I did need to use the pipette included with the engine to add fluid.>Don't think I got one of these with my engine? Will look in box again. 

The old AF funnel didn't have a long enough tube.>The one I have seems to reach OK. 

Thanks again:appl:--Larry


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## Rlahaie (Oct 29, 2015)

Just picked mine up at the LHS today and it looks great!!! Slow speed running is fantastic and overall this is one terrific bargain. I will probably change out the sound system and maybe go to TMCC with an ERR install eventually since the sound is pretty tinny.

Rolland


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

You absolutely need to check out Carl Tuveson's conversion to TMCC. The Video is on YouTube at carl4flyer.


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