# "SuperDetail"... Has it gone too far?



## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

I'm keeping the rolling stock in their boxes, stored in a drawer until there's track to put them on. But I was curious, so I took one out to examine it.
The one I picked is an ExactRail Signature Series boxcar in Norfolk Southern motif. I'm blown away by the detail.
Lettering so crisp, that it's actually enhanced under magnification. Plastic detail and fitments so fine that you have to look close to appreciate it. I'm not sure how it's done. Standard injection techniques wouldn't produce what I'm seeing.
But all that being said, I wonder if such fine and delicate detail is worthy or deserving of the treatment it's future holds when it's placed in duty.
The spiderweb filament-like brake detail, ladders, and grabs seem just waiting to be ripped off by a clumsy albeit routine human touch.
There were days when we longed for such detail. But now that I see it, I'm reminded of the axiom "Be careful what you wish for."
I'm also reminded of being afraid to handle my brass PFM Atlantic. This is the era of Display Case modeling. R-T-R might well now mean "Ready To Ruin".


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## PhillipL (May 5, 2012)

Since I reached my fifties and my eye sight was gone downhill, I share your concern about how fragile some models can be. I have ruined several accidentally over the last several years. I started purchasing more "robust" models such as Atlas Trainman 50 foot box cars, covered hoppers, gondolas and open hoppers. I still purchase Kadee cars because although they are extremely detailed, they don't seem to be as fragile as other brands.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Yes, I used to pick up Varney and Athern cars like I was grabbing a baseball bat. But these, I pick up between a thumb and forefinger.


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## DaveCo (Nov 9, 2015)

As a young man (24 years old) I tend to try to treat everything very carefully regardless of the detail. When I was a child I was not careful what so ever and ruined a few locomotives and rolling stock. 

Even now that I'm very careful, not a day goes by in the train room that I worry that things may be over detailed. Now, I'm not too picky, if a ladder gets broken off I either glue it back or leave it off. But I've seen some who thinks it's unacceptable to have glue residue or a broken part. I guess what I'm trying to say is, to each their own. Be as careful as you'd like but I certainly suggest not getting too upset over a broken pipe or ladder here or there.

Cheers!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

My modeling philosophy has always been "close enough for Government work", and I don't get all hot and bothered over superdetailing.

I also agree with you: I know things are going to see frequent use on my layout where, despite everyone being careful, things will get broken. I have never seen the point in spending a ton of money for something so detailed that I will be afraid to run it. I don't want to admire something on a shelf, I want to run it on my layout.

"Too far" is another thing entirely; completely a matter of personal preference. I've stated my own preference above, but I think it's nice that there are highly detailed choices available for those who want it. I'm a big fan of choices, usually.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

CtV, I'm with you. I'll run anything from a dog to a gold piece, and everything in-between, knowing the potential for mishaps (but I will be more careful with the gold pieces).
A loco falling to the floor is about the worst. A Dremel dropped on a well detailed structure is bad. A stripped-out female screw thread is fixable.
We deal.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Thanks, Dave.
Good philosophy.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Personally, I'll concede that we've gone the limit when we see connecting HO glad hands.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

HA! My old rebuild Tyco cars aren't so bad now, are they?!? 

I have RailLine HOn3 flat car and stock car kits that I'm building, and every time I pick up one of them I feel like I'm holding the most delicate piece of glass. I just can't imagine the damage that might occur if I happened to have a muscle tremor at the wrong time, or actually dropped one of them.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

A large percentage of model railroaders are 'senior citizens', like me, and their eyes aren't what they used to be, like me, so crazy detailing sort of gets lost in the big picture.
I'm more into cool scenery, animated items, and trains that run reliably without derailing or detaching every two laps.
Different strokes for different folks, right?
Bob


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Lol, Shdwdrgn, I'm laughing inside, but I know that feeling!


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Absolutely, Bob!
Reliability is #1!


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I think I fall in line with a lot of other people as my eyes aren't as good as they used to be. The majority of my rolling stock is old Athearn blue box kits that I have lightly weathered. I also do have some highly detailed freight cars such as Kadee and Intermountain and then the highly detailed cars are in a train with the old Athearn cars, it's hard to tell them apart unless you really get right on top of them. 

I'm with CTValleyRR, Close enough is good enough for me. I am a lone operator and the only one I have to please is myself.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

I have the opposite problem with my eyesight... I have always had fantastic vision up close and can see very fine detail. Unfortunately this means I have to wear contacts to see past my elbow. And since I spend so much time on the computer my eyes no longer change focus very well, so I have both reading glasses and driving glasses, so be worn with my contacts. I always take out the contacts to work on my trains, but then I barely ever need the magnifying glass.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Ah yes, this is my favorite subject of all when it comes to the world of model railroading. I'm a frugal individual myself by preference and by no means does that mean I'm cheap when it comes to spending money because there have been a few times in my 60+ years that I've spent more for an item than what I would have liked but, that's the only way I was getting what I wanted. That being said, I agree 100% that this hobby has gone overboard on several issues.

Details are nice and I'm all for some nice details rather than everything being molded in one giant clump of plastic however, at the cost of say $50 for one boxcar just to have a few grab handles and some realistic looking brake lines, that's just plain insanity IMHO. A piece of rolling stock today at $40 to $50 is common place when you walk into most mom & pop hobby shops and that's just crazy, sorry. I refuse to pay that kind of money for a piece of rolling stock no matter how much detailing it has. Most of my rolling stock is Athearn Blue Box kits that I've purchased over the years and I've done some rather nice detailing myself to make them look more realistic and looking like the newer, more expensive ones today and I've yet to pay more than $15 for an Athearn Blue Box kit, even at today's prices. I shop around until I find what I want, plain & simple.

Now when it comes to powered units, that's a whole new ballgame! I had a real difficult time wrestling with myself when I bought my new BLI 3800 Class ATSF 2-10-2 w/sound for $369 but I really wanted a nice DCC w/sound steam locomotive and that was the best I could locate in the price range I was willing to spend. I know they have much nicer ones like the Big Boy locomotives I would love to have but, I'm not spending $500, $600 or $700 for a locomotive, it just isn't going to happen.

My DCC stuff is all pretty much brand new gear which is to be expected if one wants to get into DCC but, 95% of my rolling stock, structures, accessories, peoples, vehicles, etc... are all older NOS that I picked up really cheap by shopping around and not being in any hurry. That's the key to this hobby today, shop around and don't be in a hurry because you can always get a sweet deal if you shop long enough! There is so much data out there today in this hobby where we all can learn new tricks & techniques that its easy to buy an older piece and do your own details without spending an arm & a leg and that's simply the route I chose to go in the hobby. That's my .02 in all of this, lol.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I have Allen McClellan's "3' Rule"...if it looks good from three feet away, then it looks good enough. Yes, I do the occasional fine detail project, but the impression of detail is enough for me. My Big Boy is a classic example, once you see how little detail I've actually added....


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

shaygetz said:


> My Big Boy is a classic example, once you see how little detail I've actually added....


Awesome!


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

"Proto" is nice and they drive the hobby but there IS a point where it becomes a little silly.

The spectrum of expectation and tolerance in the practitioners is SO wide it is very impossible to cover all the bases so they err on the side of realism.

It drives the prices up and that is the drawback. But in a few years THAT will be in the garage sale mix and affordable.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

shaygetz said:


> I have Allen McClellan's "3' Rule"...if it looks good from three feet away, then it looks good enough. Yes, I do the occasional fine detail project, but the impression of detail is enough for me. My Big Boy is a classic example, once you see how little detail I've actually added....
> 
> QUOTE]Shay, is that the one that you got as a basket case? Looks pretty nice from here, though I'm probably a lot more than three feet away.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

I am in agreement with the three foot rule. I do have a few, very few highly detailed freight cars, but the majority are old Athearn blue box kits that were built over 30 years ago while I was laying track when starting my layout. Many were undecorated kits that I custom painted and lightly weathered for my freelance railroad. Here's an example. 










When cars like this is put into a train with very highly detailed cars, you really can't tell the difference unless you are right on top of them.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Chet said:


> Here's an example.


Awesome job!


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Correct me if I'm wrong LS but maybe you mean too far for practical purposes. If that's so I might be inclined to concur. I have a Genesis diesel and the detail is great but you have to handle it with kid gloves.

I'm wondering if the manufactures have seen a market for these products. We all know the majority of model railroaders are getting on in years and they are often the people with the highest disposable incomes. I'm thinking they might have seen a marketing opportunity with these super detailed models.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Chet said:


> When cars like this is put into a train with very highly detailed cars, you really can't tell the difference unless you are right on top of them.


There's a lot of personal preference, and sometimes the lack of certain details really doesn't jump out, but to me those Athearns really DO stick out thanks to the really *heavy* and crude details - particular the super heavy door tracks and the ugly "claws" for the moving doors. That sort of door detail really sticks out.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

cv_acr said:


> There's a lot of personal preference, and sometimes the lack of certain details really doesn't jump out, but to me those Athearns really DO stick out thanks to the really *heavy* and crude details - particular the super heavy door tracks and the ugly "claws" for the moving doors. That sort of door detail really sticks out.


I don't mind the looks at all. I am a lone operator and the only one I have to please is myself. Like I mentioned, when in a train with highly detailed cars it can be hard to tell them apart. These cas cost me about five bucks each, added Kadee couplers and wheels to them and they hace been in service for over 25 years. I figure I got my moneys work.

Here's a video with my cheapie Athearn cars and also some highly detailed cars. Try to pick out the expensive ones.


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## LateStarter (Mar 12, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong LS but maybe you mean too far for practical purposes.


That's exactly what I meant.
There comes a point where concern for causing damage or deformation can outweigh the urge to pick it up and look at it.
There's a big difference in picking up an old Athern like you'd grab the remote, and gently picking up a hyper-detailed car with your thumb and index finger.
We wanted detail (we craved it) and we got it. But it may turn out to be a curse.
Don't get me wrong -- I love all that detail. It blows me away. I can actually get goosebumps over some of it. The fact that the kind of detail I incorporated in scratch building and kit bashing is now available in a box is exciting and thrilling, no matter what the cost. But for the sake of practicality, we're approaching the realm of Display Case Modeling... a place where my PFM Atlantic would be very comfortable.
I like the hyper-detail era. We deserve it. We earned it. We started it decades ago. All I'm saying is, "thumb 'n finger" operation may not be everyone's cup of tea.
As far as manufacturer's motives or reasons to give us such treasures is concerned, I believe it's a very simple answer -- "Because they can".
They knew they'd blow us away with it, and they were right.
Enjoy or don't. I choose to enjoy... just a bit more carefully.


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

I have quite a few cars and all are not over detailed. I have blue box, Accurail, and Athearn RTR. With a little weathering they look great. No need for the overly detailed cars. The cost of those are a little excessive IMO. 

But with my locomotives I do insist they are well detailed like Athearn Genisis, MTH and Walthers Proto.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Hey I had the real thing in the green chevy pick me up except mine was the 5 window version. bought that for 100 bucks and sold it after I painted it Green for 1K


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

There must be a demand for various detailing levels of new items, as they are producing them.....so somebody likes the detail.....I know I do....:thumbsup:


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Excellent video Chet and some fine looking rolling stock indeed. It's been my opinion in this hobby that there are folks who enjoy the hobby on every level, whether it be the lower end of things to the really high priced stuff and I guess it's really a matter of personal preference. Some will spend a fortune to get some really nice highly detailed equipment while others like myself are perfectly happy buying the lesser expensive items and doing the work ourselves to get some nice detailing going on.

Like I said earlier on one of my comments, most of my rolling stock is the older Athearn Blue Box kits that I've built myself and detailed myself but I just never got around to weathering the stuff. I hope to one day do that but for now all of my rolling stock and locomotives all look like new equipment running down the rails, lol. I think it's pretty much like most things in life, we get out of it what we put into it and some are happy with the finer things in life, while others are happy with the simple things in life. I'm more into the simpler pleasures of life myself.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> There must be a demand for various detailing levels of new items, as they are producing them.....so somebody likes the detail.....I know I do....:thumbsup:


I agree, there's definitely a market for the higher priced highly detailed stuff because it continues to sell without any problems from what I've seen at the train shows I use to attend.

I met a gentleman a couple of years ago who swears by MTH products and that's all he will buy, nothing else. I've looked at a great deal of MTH product and while I agree much of it is nice stuff, I've always thought it was over-priced for what you get. 

Plastics have always been one of the cheapest products on the open market and with most things today being manufactured overseas in Asia where labor & materials are extremely cheap compared to the US, I just can't justify paying those exorbitant prices to make someone else rich.


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## Chet (Aug 15, 2014)

Texas Hi-Railer said:


> I agree, there's definitely a market for the higher priced highly detailed stuff because it continues to sell without any problems from what I've seen at the train shows I use to attend.
> 
> I met a gentleman a couple of years ago who swears by MTH products and that's all he will buy, nothing else. I've looked at a great deal of MTH product and while I agree much of it is nice stuff, I've always thought it was over-priced for what you get.
> 
> Plastics have always been one of the cheapest products on the open market and with most things today being manufactured overseas in Asia where labor & materials are extremely cheap compared to the US, I just can't justify paying those exorbitant prices to make someone else rich.


I will have to agree with you completely when it comes to the high prices of the highly detailed freight cars. 

First off, I am a lone operator, and like I said before, the only one I have to please is myself. I have picked up some Kadee cars in recent years at a great price from Amazon and nome (on sale) on the internet mainly because I was interested in the raod names more than the details. 

When ever we have visitors over, they all want to see the trains run and not on one single occasion have I ever had anyone comment on the details on freight equipment, but rather that they did like the weathering. 

Guess it to each their own.


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

Chet said:


> I will have to agree with you completely when it comes to the high prices of the highly detailed freight cars.
> 
> First off, I am a lone operator, and like I said before, the only one I have to please is myself. I have picked up some Kadee cars in recent years at a great price from Amazon and nome (on sale) on the internet mainly because I was interested in the raod names more than the details.
> 
> ...


That's me too Chet, I'm a lone operator. A few years back I had heard about a local model railroad club here in my small town that meets once or twice each month (can't remember) at an old remodeled Santa Fe train depot that's now a local train museum so I went down one evening to meet the guys and I only went back once after that because I could clearly see I did not fit into their little click there.

I run my trains to please me and I pick & choose exactly what I'm looking for in this hobby that suits me as well. It's never been a matter of "if" I can afford something, but rather am I willing to spend that kind of dough on an item and most times the answer is no because it's simply far too expensive for what you get is the bottom line. I've worked hard my entire life for what I have and I'm not about to start wasting it now because some guys think we should own $100 freight cars made by MTH or some other over-priced manufacturer, lol. Sorry but that's just me!

I like what I do have now and I truly enjoy the hobby. Sure it would be nice to have a couple of guys over now & then to talk trains and run a few for a while but, I'm not going to do that just to fit in with some click somewhere that couldn't care less if I was part of the scene or not. Again, that's just me. I typically get along with all folks from all walks of life and in six decades I've never bowed down to any of them, plain & simple. OK, I'll jump down off the soap box.


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## lyrics 51 (Mar 9, 2016)

Like any hobby trains can become an obsession. When I first started with cameras back in the 70s I remember being completely satisfied with my gear until I opened up a photo magazine. Suddenly I "needed" things I didn't even know existed 5 minutes before. Incredible detail may be one of those things.


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## NAJ (Feb 19, 2016)

Just my opinion from what I see on the freight line that runs near me...

"Super Detail" would be nothing more than Rust, Dirt, Graffiti and very little to no care or concern as to outward appearance of the rolling stock. 

Not what I want on my layout although there is virtually nothing prototypical on my layout.


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2016)

Maybe someone is listening, I saw an add for two different types of the same roller, one with MUCH proto detail and one without by the same company. The price was noticably cheaper for the 'plain jane' one!


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## Texas Hi-Railer (Jan 28, 2015)

lyrics 51 said:


> Like any hobby trains can become an obsession. When I first started with cameras back in the 70s I remember being completely satisfied with my gear until I opened up a photo magazine. Suddenly I "needed" things I didn't even know existed 5 minutes before. Incredible detail may be one of those things.


WOW, I was the same way back then with my photographic equipment. I've always been a Canon man myself and I remember when I got my first Canon AE-1 Program I thought I was "King of the Hill" until I saw one in a photo magazine that was the "all black" version and then I had to have that one, lol. Then I went and purchased the Canon A1 after getting my hands on the black AE-1 Program and before you know it I had just about every lens and gadget Canon made.

When I got into digital photography back in 05' I put my entire Canon collection on eBay and it ended up closing for $5,625.00 which was three times what I had hoped to get for it because almost nobody was buying film cameras any longer. I just wish there was a way all of those expensive focal length lenses I had would have transferred over to my new EOS system. So, I played with that system for a while until I pretty much got out of photography all together and now all I own is a nice little hand-held job, a Canon SX170 IS in red that will do anything I'm interested in doing anymore. I had a Canon S5 IS but I sold it a few months ago to a neighbor gal who was desperately seeking one and I made a quick $250 for letting go of it. 

I still have all of my negatives and transparencies from the past 40 years but I have no clue what I'll ever do with them?


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Shay, is that the one that you got as a basket case? Looks pretty nice from here, though I'm probably a lot more than three feet away.


Yes...took awhile but I got it all back together...:smilie_daumenpos:


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