# New House, first "real" layout



## irontodd (Aug 28, 2014)

Ok, so I started typing the below diatribe, and in doing so I think I solved some of my own questions, but I'll go ahead and post anyways to get your feedback.

I've been playing with my 4-yo son with his HO trains and realized that a true model railroad is something I never got to do in my younger years, so I'm trying to plan out something in N-scale in my basement. after much discussion with the zoning committee, I've been alloted basically a 14.5x8.5 area for my personal hobby space, which I'm going to consume with 2 things. My drum set, and of course my model railroad.

I'm planning a modern line in a fictitious town/area in the foothills of the rocky mountains, that includes Amtrak passenger service (like the current Cali Zephyr). I intend to primarily use diesel motive power, however an occasional history day might bring a steamer or two in. My current equipment is the Kato Amtrak P42B set. I'm thinking of using BNSF equipment otherwise to deliver coal to a power facility that powers just this small town and maybe a neighboring one (I don't intend to have 40+ car consists), plus bring other goods into this otherwise remote town (maybe food, gasoline, etc). The town will produce western goods (cowboy wear type stuff) and livestock and dairy goods at a sizable farm. 

As far as trackage is concerned, my first given is that I'll have a loop layout for continuous running. Of course I need/want to have some "staging and storage". I am looking again at my current track plan as I type this, and am realizing that for such a small town, I probably don't need so many spurs for industry. A transfer station for hard goods, a liquid xfer for fuel oil, (hmm, maybe town power should be provided by liquid petrol or NG vs. coal), and if I retain coal as a commodity, a dump station. I probably don't need individual trackage to each store. I can let semi's do the local deliveries. The same transfer station could take outbound goods out of town, but maybe a dedicated track to the farm would be helpful/convenient.

I've been able to fit almost 2 1/2 miles of mainline into my town which I love. I don't like where I have my big staging area (maybe move that to the wing on the upper left, which I just realized this morning that I could add and thought it might be a good interchange, but it could be staging too). I also don't want to "foul the main" so I've got some work to do on the spurs, but based on my thoughts above that problem may already be solved in my mind.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Very interesting layout. Lotta continuous running and plenty of
switching operations also. But, I disagree, you can't ever have
too many industrial spurs. Locating 2 or 3 freight users on a team track gives
you even more switching possibilities. You really need a couple
of passing sidings so that your switcher can run around a car that
must be pushed into a spur, while others are backed in. And an additional
ability to move from inner to outer loops would be helpful.

Is there a difference in the layout in the multicolor panel and
the 3D panels? I thought I was seeing a possible reverse loop
involving the purple track upper left around to the green in lower
right. I don't think I see that track on the 3D version.

I hope you are planning on DCC. There are several aspects of this
layout that would need some complex wiring and an array of
panel switches if you are DC. 

Don


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

My first recommendation is to lose the drum set and add more layout! 

Seriously, though, I have to agree with Don, that most layouts, at least in my book, have too few sidings. Adding more adds interest, providing you have room for structures or scenery to give those sidings meaning.

The two tiered layout you envision is interesting, but may introduce problems. It looks like you've managed the grade well, but long equipment like Amtrak coaches is notoriously finicky about grade transitions. I'd test this before you get too far into it.

Secondly, make sure that you have access into those long tunnels to fix the inevitable derailment or stalled equipment.

Finally, I would have a look at the yard. You need a way for things to "escape" out the back end. Perhaps a series of turnouts down the right side, with enough tail that you can pull a loco and a car into it and then head down the ladder to run around. Staging, though, is more of a place for trains to begin /end their journey, suggesting places "off the map", so having it at one side (or hidden under) is more conducive to this effect.

A passing siding or two on the mainline would be a good addition.

Overall, though, it looks like a very good start.


----------



## irontodd (Aug 28, 2014)

I think I'm getting closer. Thanks for the suggestions. I've eased up the complexity of the over/unders and shortened the tunnels, and was able to reduce the grade a bit this time around, still keeping my 2.6 mile mainline. Remember, while it looks at first glance like it might be a doubletrack main, it really is one single loop.

Don, I'm certainly planning for DCC. I'd honestly be scared to wire this type of layout using standard DC. Especially since I've added some mainline to mainline crossovers in my latest incantation. I think I've also eliminated most if not all s-curves. can you please take a look for me and see if I've missed any? (is a crossover scenario using 2 #6 turnouts considered an s-curve? those are the ones I would question right in front of the main yard, front and center)

I totally liked your suggestion of the mainline passing sidings CTValley, so I've integrated some in, in multipurpose fashion.

One thing I'm still struggling with is adding more sidings inside the ends of the dogbone, or anywhere for that fact. I want to ensure enough space to build the town and country scenes inside those loops. and I'm trying to keep my radii fairly large. Maybe I should consider a small switcher that could service the "downtown" area in the left and/or the farm area on the right. 

For the farm I think I envision a total capacity at point of load - of 2 grain hoppers getting filled, one cattle car, and one dairy car at a time, plus maybe a duplicate string of empties inbound somewhere between staging and the farm, as well as a triplicate string of fulls headed out to the rest of the world.

Similarly for the city, Factory has one or 2 cars being filled, rest of town has a few being filled, plus the same number of cars inbound and also outbound to the world.

neither the town nor farm would have large locomotive power servicing them, it simply doesn't make sense to do so. I suppose I could reduce the min radius in there a little more to gain more action, that is if i can still have enough room for scenery. Otherwise suggestions are welcome!


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You do still have an extended S curve in the brown area on the left but if you
are not running the big boys I doubt that would be much of a problem.

I am concerned about the DOUBLE track reverse loop that the crossings in
the upper blue area create. While an Automatic reverse loop controller can
handle it, there are too many ways that you can have more than one train
crossing the insulated joiners. If that occurs there would be s short circuit.
I'm going to draw your layout out using red and black for the rails and try to devise
a way to avoid that problem. I'll get back with that.

I would eliminate the 'internal' turnouts in the blue yard area. Let the tracks
extend to the blue and become a 2nd latter track. You won't believe how
quickly you can completely fill up every yard track and spur with cars.
I have 2 fair size yards and don't have room for even one more car. Anyplace
that you can, add industrial spurs. They are what make switching fun.
Have more than one 'freight user' on a spur. Small companies, not necessarily
big plants.

Don


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

OK, I drew your layout using red for one rail, black for the other.

We can build it but it will require 2 reverse loop controllers.
The wiring will be simple, but quite different from what
is usually done. The problem is, what is effectively a
double crossover. To make these work where they
connect two loops they must be wired so that the 'top'
rail of both tracks is the same side of the circuit. We've
encountered this situation in two other layouts recently.
So we wire as if the two tracks at the double crossover
are parallel and that will extend to all of the tracks on the
left side and most of the two right loops except one
isolated section in each.

Each of those isolated sections will be powered by a reverse loop controller
that will automatically match the phase (polarity). That
will avoid the problem of more than one train crossing
an insulated joint and shorting the reverse controllers.

When you get ready to wire the layout let me know and
I will guide you.

Don


----------



## irontodd (Aug 28, 2014)

Don,

thanks for looking into that reverse loop issue - I really appreciate you taking the time to look over my plan so I avoid any faux pas. I did some add'l research to understand better, and from what I can tell I'll be running 2 parallel-ly wired tracks through and including the double crossover scenario...and I think you're proposing that some section of the wings that would perform reversing duties, not too close to the crossover area. I think that's due to potential power consumption in the reversing areas, so that I don't over work a booster? 

I suppose that section would have to be larger than my longest power-drawing consist. 

Could I place both of the ARC's on the "bottom" of the right hand blob "south" of the farm? maybe a 72-84" section of rail? My assumption is due to the fact that each of those tracks is on opposite ends of the dbl x-over, the inner one from the "westbound" side, and the outer/lower one from the "eastbound" side (in red)


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Still haven't lost that drum set! Huge amounts of wasted space there! 

Seriously, I like the way it's coming together. Yard looks MUCH better, with real operating possibilities. Good little staging area in the upper left (hidden, perhaps?).

One minor quibble with the brown tracks in the upper right. The way you've got the curves, it would be hard to put a structure in there to actually provide rail service. Move your curves closer to the turnouts, and leave yourself with longer straight segments at the end for better loading / unloading.


----------



## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The two isolated sections as you show in Red in the two left side loops
are correct. Each would be powered through a reverse loop controller.
They are usually mounted under the table near their isolated section,
and powered by your main DCC buss that goes to the rest of the tracks.

You would use drops from your various tracks to a DCC buss below.
The key is to wire the two tracks in the 'double crossover' area exactly
the same and continue that phasing around the entire layout except for
the two isolated sections.

The isolated sections can be any length but should be just a bit longer
than your LONGEST LIGHTED PASSENGER TRAIN. This is to make
sure the loco is not spanning insulated joiners on one end, and a
passenger car truck spanning the other insulated joiners. That would
cause a short circuit.

Don


----------

