# Question Regarding BLI Loco's



## SSBN743 (Dec 30, 2013)

Over the years I've acquired several BLI loco's and I love them - they're great IMO. However, the documentation on them is pretty suspect and could use some work to say the least.

Currently, I'm running a Paragon 3 Rolling Thunder EMD SD9 - and it works great. However, I've been playing lately and have discovered that it doesn't seem to have a lot of features.


I can't disable or alter the L1 lighting feature except for Rule 17 dimming, but that's it
I don't appear to have ditch lights or L4/L5 (nothing happens when I try to configure them)
I can't seem to get the Quantum Sound stuff to function at all

Anyway, looking thorough some of the documentation on BLI's website has helped with some things, like the engine Revs. Apparently they received a number of questions on that and put out a bulletin. I have also been able to figure out that this decoder has a CV7 value of 2, and have grabbed the applicable manual.

However, there are still things, like the above, that I can't get to work. Does anyone know how to ascertain which features the loco has and which it does not? It has all the CV's - and lets me read and write to them with JMRI or even manually - but appears to simply ignore them.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject? How do I know what I have? This particular loco was a gift that I'm pretty sure was purchased at a train show, but beyond that, I don't even know where it came from other than BLI.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi. Quantum Sound is/was a feature on Quantum Sound Industries (QSI) decoders which BLI hasn't used across their fleet since about 2009 or earlier. QSI no longer exists AFAIK. 

BLI has been using their own proprietary (but contracted out and built by 'someone') Paragon series of decoders since about 2009. Generally, they are full-featured and do as advertised. I happen to like them, but I prefer the original QSI sound files, particularly on PRR and NYC steamers. BLI is now on Paragon 3, and will probably migrate up to Paragon 4 by 2002/3. Some people have reported complaints about the P3 class, but not widely across many models, only a few.

Generally, BLI is very responsive. I had a headlight fail on an original 2004 Niagara 4-8-4, and asked if they could help. They replied within 72 hours, regretting that the age of the model meant they no longer have parts. I would go to their site, open their email app, and ask your questions. You will get something back from them within a few days at most.


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## bewhole (Dec 31, 2016)

Have you tried resetting the decoder back to factory specks?? ( reset to factory defaults) After that take the loco off the track for a min to "reboot" the decoder.


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## SSBN743 (Dec 30, 2013)

mesenteria said:


> Hi. Quantum Sound is/was a feature on Quantum Sound Industries (QSI) decoders which BLI hasn't used across their fleet since about 2009 or earlier. QSI no longer exists AFAIK.
> 
> BLI has been using their own proprietary (but contracted out and built by 'someone') Paragon series of decoders since about 2009. Generally, they are full-featured and do as advertised. I happen to like them, but I prefer the original QSI sound files, particularly on PRR and NYC steamers. BLI is now on Paragon 3, and will probably migrate up to Paragon 4 by 2002/3. Some people have reported complaints about the P3 class, but not widely across many models, only a few.
> 
> Generally, BLI is very responsive. I had a headlight fail on an original 2004 Niagara 4-8-4, and asked if they could help. They replied within 72 hours, regretting that the age of the model meant they no longer have parts. I would go to their site, open their email app, and ask your questions. You will get something back from them within a few days at most.


OK, will do.

Yeah, it's just really weird. I wouldn't even have been looking for the Quantum sound stuff but it comes up with a Paragon 3 decoder in JMRI. So, that could be a just, not accurate, I realize, however, after downloading the manual, I find Quantum settings in the manual, with descriptions of the respective CV's and all; try to configure them, as described, and..... nothing. Similar with the lighting modes, all in the manual, and JMRI, but most of it doesn't work. The Loco seems perfectly fine, runs fine, no issues so I don't think it's faulty - just wondering if there are different configurations getting shipped from the factory; maybe some cheaper models, or something, that don't have all the bells and whistles.

But yeah, thanks - I'll give BLI support a go and see what they have to say.


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## SSBN743 (Dec 30, 2013)

bewhole said:


> Have you tried resetting the decoder back to factory specks?? ( reset to factory defaults) After that take the loco off the track for a min to "reboot" the decoder.


Oh yeah - I've become an expert at that.

On that subject real quick.... As I've been playing around with the BLI loco, I've been using JMRI. Since, most of the time I don't really trust the JMRI GUI - I'm often simply in the CV tab, making sure all the CV's I wanted to change are indeed changed. Anyway, I've noted, that at a certain point - which I can't really define. Nonetheless, a certain point, say 100-150 writes in 30 minutes-ish, the loco will simply flip out and half-*** default itself. The address will change back to 03, the whole nine yards. Except that it's not completely defaulted, as movement wil be really jerky and everything.

Now, since I'm using JMRI, it's not the biggest deal, I simply set CV8 to 8 (reboot the unit), write the AD2 address, and reload the JMRI CV list. Got me a little worried though - and it happens pretty routinely, both on the main and on the programming track. Does that sound legit? Or maybe I do have a faulty unit.


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## graywolf06 (Aug 14, 2019)

I recently got a BLI Heavy Mikado with P3 decoder and it sometimes acts strangely. For instance initially I was unable to program some CV changes on the programming track but was able to do so on the Main. BTW I am using NCE Powercab.I was able to change the address on the Prog track to 1460 from 3. Then sometimes I go to start the engine and it is completely dead. I try using address 3 and nothing ---I try reset CV 8 still nothing. So I put it on the Prog Track and enter Address 3 and it comes alive. I reset to address 1460 and it still is good. Move back to the Main and it runs like normal. I have been using F9 shutdown at the end of a session recently to see if it needs to be off before I cut power to the layout. So far ok. Trouble is every time I reset I lose all the CV changes I made so I just gave up and will run with factory settings until I can call BLI.


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## SSBN743 (Dec 30, 2013)

graywolf06 said:


> I recently got a BLI Heavy Mikado with P3 decoder and it sometimes acts strangely. For instance initially I was unable to program some CV changes on the programming track but was able to do so on the Main. BTW I am using NCE Powercab.I was able to change the address on the Prog track to 1460 from 3. Then sometimes I go to start the engine and it is completely dead. I try using address 3 and nothing ---I try reset CV 8 still nothing. So I put it on the Prog Track and enter Address 3 and it comes alive. I reset to address 1460 and it still is good. Move back to the Main and it runs like normal. I have been using F9 shutdown at the end of a session recently to see if it needs to be off before I cut power to the layout. So far ok. Trouble is every time I reset I lose all the CV changes I made so I just gave up and will run with factory settings until I can call BLI.


Well, that sounds a little different from what I've seen, but not too much. I too have had issues with the programming track; seems to work much better on the Main line.
However, I've noted a couple of things:

1. I've noted that if I need to write a large number of CV's, BLI will sometimes flip out at a SWAG of 25+ writes when on the main line
2. So, if I'm going to write a lot of CV's (i.e. reprogramming from default) I use the programming track. Seems like this works well
3. If it's a quick change to CV3/4 or something I have no problem using ops mode so long as I limit it to those two CV's. There also seems to be some kind of time check involved; if I write 20 CV's wait 5 minutes, write 20 more, I haven't yet had any problems - nonetheless, I've just found that for large write jobs, I just use the programming track

Next -

1. I too have had sporadic issues with the loco forgetting its address. It's really hard to pinpoint, but at first guess, I'm guessing that signals are getting crossed somehow when I'm programming other locos on the same track (ops mode)
2. So, I set CV's 15/16 to have a change code. I just set CV 16 to 007. Then whenever I need to make CV's changes, I use the remote (I have the Digitrax 210 with the DT500) to change CV15 to 007, then use JMRI to do what I need to do. Afterwards, I change CV15 back to 000, or anything other than 007, and off we go

So far, this has worked great and seems to alleviate the "signals crossed" situation it sounds like you're at least partially experiencing. Plus, it protects your configs from any accidents as well, you have to mean it to change anything.

In the beginning I too contacted BLI about this. They don't want to admit to any kind of a write limit or anything - and I really can't prove it either. They also won't even touch the programming problems between to programming tracks and main line, and I can't really blame them as that opens a whole can of worms. However, I have noted stark differences between Paragon 2 and Paragon 3 and how they behave between the two methods. However, I just did the CV15/16 thing coupled with large jobs on the programming track, and haven't had a problem since - highly recommend you give it shot and see...


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Is it a sound unit? Some programming track outputs are lower power (to protect decoders if there is a problem), and sometimes a sound unit, especially if it has a capacitor, can't be programmed on the programming track without a power booster installed.

I would also check your current and feeders on the main. What size wire is your bus? What size are your feeders?


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## graywolf06 (Aug 14, 2019)

Bus is 14ga house wire --- the feeders are 18ga & 20 ga stranded wire. Many feeds all over the 9X13 around the wall layout.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Ok, so you should have plenty of power.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

graywolf06 said:


> I recently got a BLI Heavy Mikado with P3 decoder and it sometimes acts strangely. For instance initially I was unable to program some CV changes on the programming track but was able to do so on the Main. BTW I am using NCE Powercab.I was able to change the address on the Prog track to 1460 from 3. Then sometimes I go to start the engine and it is completely dead. I try using address 3 and nothing ---I try reset CV 8 still nothing. So I put it on the Prog Track and enter Address 3 and it comes alive. I reset to address 1460 and it still is good. Move back to the Main and it runs like normal. I have been using F9 shutdown at the end of a session recently to see if it needs to be off before I cut power to the layout. So far ok. Trouble is every time I reset I lose all the CV changes I made so I just gave up and will run with factory settings until I can call BLI.


I am hesitant to refer you to another forum, but I hope our hosts will overlook it in view of what I think is a possible answer found over at Model Railroad Hobbyist's site. Scrolling down and looking through the appropriate sub-forum, you'll see a recent thread explaining that you can lock a Paragon decoder with two steps, and that this circumvents/prevents the fairly common problem of decoders getting their addresses scrambled or reverted upon shutdown.


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## graywolf06 (Aug 14, 2019)

mesenteria said:


> I am hesitant to refer you to another forum, but I hope our hosts will overlook it in view of what I think is a possible answer found over at Model Railroad Hobbyist's site. Scrolling down and looking through the appropriate sub-forum, you'll see a recent thread explaining that you can lock a Paragon decoder with two steps, and that this circumvents/prevents the fairly common problem of decoders getting their addresses scrambled or reverted upon shutdown.


Thanks for the info. I went to that site and read all 5 pages re the subject and came to the conclusion that any slight blips re power interruptions on the track can cause problems in the BLI decoders such that CV's can change or functions can be lost. I will try the CV15 -16 lock method as clarified in the last response on pg 5. I hope this is what is to be done but will await your concurrence. Here goes;

Put the engine on the prog track and check to see what the values are in Cv 15 & 16. 
If CV 16 is 0 (zero) then the decoder cannot be locked.
Change CV 16 to any # from 1-7 and this will enable you to lock your CV changes.
Now put that same # into CV15 and the decoder will be unlocked
Make your desired CV changes now --When finished then ----
Change the CV15 to a different # from 1-7 and the decoder will then be locked. 

I hope this is correct, but I await comments. Thanks, Paul


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I haven't actually done this, and haven't gone back to refresh my own mind. My understanding when I last glanced through that thread was that you should use the same value in both if you want the address/decoder to be locked. Having one number different locks it, and I seem to recall that you have to remember which of the values you use or you could end up with a permanently locked decoder. This may not be true, but it seemed to me that one ought to record on a slip of paper whatever value you had programmed to CV16 I think...? One had to be done first, I think 16, and then CV 15, maybe the other way around.) But you seem to have captured the essence in your reading. Make doubly sure you have the sequence correct, and make sure to record which value you assigned to the first CV if the value has the range you stated.


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## graywolf06 (Aug 14, 2019)

Sounds good thanks. It is CV16 first to establish it is not on zero otherwise the decoder cannot be locked.


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