# Update on the 290



## Stillakid

Well, after 4 hours and at least 5 modifications and tests, finally, the 290 roared to life
Found a short in the smoke unit. I replaced it with the smoke unit from the 302AC, hooked it up with the jumpers that T-an posted, and off she went 

The next thing I need to do is find a tender with trucks. I also need to order some brass shoulders for the tenders. Trying to solder on the ones that all my tenders have is a PAIN!

The 302AC still won't respond. I'm bidding on a lot of parts, hopefully, I'll be able to make the repairs and have all 3(283, 290 & 302AC) up and running so I can start on laying out a track. I'm tired of just running them on an oval in the garage work area:laugh:

I did learn a few things while listening and reading everyones suggestions, and am thankful for being part of a group of people that are so willing to take the time to help You guys are, "Great!!!!!!"

Reckers, if you read this, "Thanks!:thumbsup:
(pics later:laugh

Jim


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## Stillakid

What I found with the 302AC.

The magnet assembly was bad. There was a wire on the coil that was hanging on for dear life, and because it was in a wrapped cover, when ever I tested for continuity, I guess I was moving it the right way

So now I have to figure out whether to send in for trade-in(old part + $20), or bid on a junker. I'm leaning toward a junker, I'd get more parts that might be usable and, who knows, maybe I'll learn something while I'm at it


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## Stillakid

and as an aside, one of the junk tenders I got was set up for 2 wires/no e-unit in tender. I'm ordering parts for the trucks and when it's done, I'll have a tender I can use as a "Jumper Car" when I work on these "S" gauge Honeys


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## T-Man

Did you want me to look at that?
SInce you are sending me parts anyway. You can decide later, I am going to the west coast this week so you can delay sending anything till I get back. I never rewound a coil but I do have the heavier wire around. I looked at the 409 I have. All i need is the coil and I can test it on my engine. I may just have to solder one wire on to fix it.


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## Stillakid

T-Man, thanks for the offer
I guess I'll give it some thought, but don't want to add to your list, "Of things to do!"


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## T-Man

If you have to replace the wire Radio Shack has it. Unless the wire is grounding out, just connecting the two ends should work. Just count the number of turns if you remove the wire.


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## Stillakid

T-Man, I have 2 of them, and they are both broken right where the wire comes out from the underside of the winding. I'm not sure I can get to enough wire to solder a new connection

Is there a "Trick" to getting the lower winding lead out?


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## T-Man

Not that I know of. That is the one you don't want to break. The wire has to be stripped of paint. I use a small knife before soldering.


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## Stillakid

T-Man!!!!!!! You are, "The Man!":thumbsup:

I un-wound one of the coils. 175 turns!! Yeah, like I'm going to try that! although, I was thinking one of my deep water reels as a feed, while I worked the winding with both hands..........hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

There was about 1/8th of an inch I could get to. Used a small razor blade to score the surface, secured the replacement wire thru 2 holes on that side(only 1 is used normally) and soldered the pieces. Got tone with my meter

I re-soldered all the connection, made the jumper, and hooked her up to the transformer................

"Mission Control, We have Lift-Off!!!!"

Thanks T-Man, I really appreciate your time, and your knowledge

Jim


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## Stillakid

By the way. Package on its way


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## tjcruiser

Stillakid,

Clue me in here ... I'm peeking in on this one...

That's the windings for one of the "field" elecromagnets you're tackling? (Rather than the armature, itself?)

And your bad (shorted) coil wire was the "blind man's" ending burried under the bundle of wire?

I think I follow, but just double checking ... curious ... learning a lot ...

How does one rewire a coil like that so neatly? I guess very carefully and slowly?

TJ


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## Stillakid

TJ, I didn't re-wire the field. I had 2 bad fields where the lower lead had snapped(1-flush, 1 left about an 1/8" of lead. Right now, my eyes & head ache, from working with such a small, cinfined area

I had to score the covering of the small lead, then figure out a way to secure the attached wire so that the solder joint was protected/insulated. It's hard to show in pictures because my camera's close-up feature stinks:thumbsdown:

This was for a Aerican Flyer 302 AC. I've attached a drawing. The circle is the field, and the arrow points to the wire I had to replace. Even though it appears to be coming off the top, it actually comes fro beneath and is threaded thru a channel to match the other side. What A Pain!!:laugh:

I am going to take T-Mans advice and try to re-wrap the field that I stripped. 175 turns!!!!!!!!! Maybe I'm just a glutten for punishment


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## Stillakid

*forgot the drawing!*

I'm getting OLD!


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## tjcruiser

Ohh ... so you had 2 of the same "field" parts ... needed to get one working, and chose to peform an autopsy on the other just to see how it was wired ... right?

Got ... I think?


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## Stillakid

Pretty much:laugh:

Plus, T-Man has me thinking I may be able to wrap it, and since I did save one, I figure it will be a "Learning Experience!"


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## T-Man

For thick wire 175 turns is a lot. I hope you have enough on a reel to do it. Just relax take your time. Take a break if you have to just tape it up. On armatures I did one pole at a time. 99 turns. I had to reduce it to 50 to fit. The thick wire should be a little easier.


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## tjcruiser

A "learning experience" for us all, thanks to people sharing their project stuff so willingly on this forum. :thumbsup:

Speaking naively ... A rewind has gotta be tough ... I would think a manual rewind, however careful, wouldn't get each looped as neatly tucked ever-so-closely to its preceding neighbor. And hence, more gap between windings. And, you'd soon fill up the available coil space before reaching the original number of windings. And, hence, less inductance ... less magnetic field.

Don't get me wrong here ... I'm NOT trying to be a pessimist. I'm just scratching my head (out loud) thinking, "How do people do something like that, and do it well, with a close-to-original outcome?"

Cluelessly yours,

TJ


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## Stillakid

TJ, That's a question for the "Master of The Impossible!"

T-Man, where are ya hiding?:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## T-Man

*Mr.Impossible or Mission Impossible*

Well guys, rewinding is one of the many paths I have wandered. I did two armatures for a 224/675 motor (an ebay junker). Yes that fine wire is hard to place. Ten turn took a width but with the plate on top the wire had to favor the outside after a few courses. I got it to work but with only 50 percent of the turns,that motor is still giving mr problems since I had to rebuild that e unit too. This was discussed in my How to thread.
The coil may be easier because it is a larger wire. I used a three pack from radio Shack the thin wire green had plenty for 4 to five poles if I remember correctly. The gold would be correct fot the coil. I recently check up on the product and the lengths have changed.
It was a mad experiment.
I think to do it well people may have a rewinding rig. It would make sense by hand it takes patience and practice and a good eye.

I did make it to the West coast.This is my first post from Mission Bay. It's windy oustide and the waves are making a racket like one of those Mansion on the seasidecliff murder movies.Being here souldn't hinder me much, I have my photo library, but the problem is that it is growing to the point I am having a hard time to locate pictures.


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## Stillakid

*I'm So Confused!*



I tried to re-wire the tenders for the 290 & 302AC yesterday. Considering how well they both responded while being bench tested with T-Mans jumper.

I checked and re-checked all the leads/solder joints, connected the tenders and put them on the test track. Neither of them did anything but click through the e-unit.

At that point, frustration started to rear it's ugly head So once again, I put the to the side before giving them a, "Tune-Up" with a hammer:laugh:

As I was goin through my notes & wiring diagrams, I noticed that the 2 sets of drawings I have do not match! 1 from a AF site, and 1 sent to me by Thomas Barker, the author of, "AF Repair Guide!" 

So today, when I take a break from sanding the Lionel 218 frame, I'll try again!


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## Stillakid

*The wiring diagrams*

The first is the one from Thomas Barker. The other from The AF web site!


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## T-Man

It looks like the wiring is different on the e unit beween the pictures. Since I don't know what the connections are in the unit. I can't tell if there somewrong.


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## Stillakid

T-Man, according to Tom Barker, the diagram he sent me was from his book and represents the standard wiring for all 4 wire post-war.

The boiler is wired exactly as it shows in the attachment that has all the different wiring configuration(top illustration-4 wire unit)


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## tjcruiser

Stillakid,

Not to complicate things further, but take a look at the wiring diagram on the left of this link:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/basic.htm

I had a quick look, and it looks likes its consistent with your posted shematic that shows all the different wiring configs (top illustration 4 wire).

Confirmation to follow that?

The other schematic (Barker) had the front/rear trucks reversed, a different e-unit crossover wire.

No suggestion/solution on my part ... just more data for you to ponder.

TJ


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## Stillakid

Yeah, TJ, I have that also. It is confusing

I'm going to try the, "Barker Fix", cause, at this point, I have nothing to loose!
(but my sanity )


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## T-Man

It is obvious that there is more than one way to rewire. All you are doing is supplying power to a coil, light and armature. They work if they are in parrallel or series with power coming from the same source.


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