# wax to protect tubular track? yes or no



## newB (Feb 3, 2011)

If this subject has been discussed already, please forgive me. I did a search and couldn't find anything on the subject.

Long story short, I've cleaned up lots of Lionel NY 'O' and 'O-72' track for my layout. Cleaning 70+ years of crud and oxidation without ruining the track isn't easy. Now to protect the track for the next 70+ years... 

I started wondering, has anyone used spray wax (such as Pledge 'specialty surface-stainless steel-non wax') on their track? How did it worked out?

I'm really worried about the Pledge ruining the cardboard insulators, or getting between the rail/tie crimp and electrically isolating the outer two rails connected thru the tie. Either of these would obviously ruin the track.

I suppose that I could experiment but I figured that I'd ask here first.

Thanks!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I have a spray can of surface protector for my table saws that keep the steel tables from rusting or tarnishing. It's not a wax per say it leaves no residue to pass on to the wood. Wood working supply's carry it.


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## jreid (May 9, 2011)

IF it is in use, I doubt there is as big a problem, if for long term storage, wipe it off with an oily rag.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm asking the obvious, perhaps, but wouldn't any layer of wax cut down dramatically on electrical conductivity at the track surface???

Seems to me that's the last thing one would want to do. I guess the wax might help protect the portion of the tube that's away from a car's pickup shoe/roller. So maybe it'll work OK, as long as the top edge of the tube is thereafter "stripped" clean of the wax?

NewB -- what did you use to clean the track? Hopefully not sandpaper! If in your cleaning, you still have a decent layer of chromed finish on the tubular track, the track should hold it's shine in a low humidity environment. However, if in order to get the track clean, you've had to "strip" (wire brush, Scotchbrite, etc.) it down to the bare, underlying metal, then you have a trickier (but common) issue. Rust will likely set in at some point. That said, some guys actually like that ... give the tube a more realistic-rail look. Trains can run OK, as long as track-to-track connections are clean/tight, and as long as the top edge of the tub is kept bright and clean.

TJ


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## newB (Feb 3, 2011)

Hmm, not too sure this old stuff was ever plated, see attached photo. Funny how the camera w/ flash has a more critical eye than I do. The specks of oxidation are barely visible to the naked eye in normal light.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

First time, I heard of anybody wanting to shine track. I use an acrylic floor shine on tinplate cars. It may work on track but keep it off the top. Aside from painting it, oil is the best preservative, without loosing conductivity.


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## lionellines (May 18, 2011)

Waxing the track is not a good idea. It will greatly decrease electrical continuity, and will not provide adequate rust or oxidation prevention. Wipe the track with a rag soaked with WD-40. It will keep the track from rusting better than wax will.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Wax will certainly screw things up as far as conductivity, don't do it!

I've heard of people using ATF fluid on their tracks, I haven't personally tried it.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

newB

My track sat out for 15 years, was stored in boxes for 10, set up and played with for 15, covered (I'm also a woodworker) for 10 and uncovered and played with for 2. 

For all of those years, the set was kept in a basement, but a dehumidifier was on every summer without fail.

I'd say, keep the humidity low, and the crud away from the tract.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Your track is in good condition. A little scotch brite to buff the spots and an oil to clean and protect should do it.


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

hey gunny- this is an oldie and you may have already answered this in another thread at some point but you mentioned you heard of some guys using ATF on tracks. Is there more to that story? bad idea, good idea? isnt traction an issue with oily residue?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, ATF is actually designed to be somewhat "sticky", think of the clutch packs immersed in it in your transmission. OTOH, I can't see putting it on the track, all I can see it doing is attracting dirt!


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

thank you sir! tracks usually don't need any help collecting dirt!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

If I might be allowed to weigh in on the subject...

It seems to me there are two approaches to track cleaning/maintenance. One is the applicative school of thought, wherein the process of cleaning track ends with the application of a substance that clings and remains on the rails---oil, AT Fluid, WD-40, etc.
The second is the evaporative school, in which the end result of cleaning involves the solvent evaporating and leaving behind clean, bare metal. I favor this approach, but that's just me.

I suspect the answer lies in the environment: higher humidity locales might require Klingon substances for a moisture barrier to protect the track, while a drier location makes "dry" track easier to maintain. I have a non-stop dehumifier near the layout, so I find the oils and their like to be more trouble than they're worth. I prefer an occasional scrub with GooGone and a Scotchbrite, followed by a wipedown with 90% isopropyl alcohol. And a shot of bourbon for the gandy dancer.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Reckers said:


> If I might be allowed to weigh in on the subject...


NO!


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, ATF is actually designed to be somewhat "sticky", think of the clutch packs immersed in it in your transmission. OTOH, I can't see putting it on the track, all I can see it doing is attracting dirt!


I think in a previous post you said you had a track cleaner car. Do you think that cutting one of those green scratchy thinggys into a disk that is same size as the "PAD" and then glue the green disk to the foam disk would work as a good cleaner? Also- do you know of a way to modify the car to hold a reservoir of cleaning fluid that can be dribbled out thought the hole in the top and onto the cleaning pad? seems like someone should have invented something like this by now. or- I didn't find it yet!! I have two of these cleaner cars and I am planning on using my newly acquired trackmobile as motive force for both cleaners in a push/pull arrangement. I got a ZW so power is not a problem. (yes, I am the one that got it) I do this already with my TMCC 2328. I think my MR GP it is just like the one I saw on one of your posts.

Thanks in advance!!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Plandis,
Ask and you will receive!
CMX Clean machine, comes in all different scales too!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have the original Lionel 3927 Track Cleaning Car, I was going to use some Velcro to stick ScotchBrite on the polishing pad, no need for any cleaning fluid. I think I'll just dispense with the trailing cotton pad, all it does is get hung up on switches and the occasional track joint.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> NO!


 
*innocent look* Who, me? A smart aleck???? :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

NIMT said:


> Plandis,
> Ask and you will receive!
> CMX Clean machine, comes in all different scales too!
> View attachment 12300


Thanks BigSky! (MT that is) you say that car comes in O gauge?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It appears that it does exist: CMX Clean Machine for O-Scale.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

They are not cheap! but anyone that I've talked with that has one loves it! They do an exellent job of keeping things clean!


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It appears that it does exist: CMX Clean Machine for O-Scale.


I was just looking a them. it appears to be dual pad that is kept wet that wipes along the track and has cleaning fluid dribbling onto it. No scrub action?
humm. Sounds like they work though.
You know from previous posts that I have a plan for several hundred feet of suspended track. I have to consider the cleaning aspect!!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I am going to have about 160 feet of ceiling track, so I'm going to need reliable cleaning as well.


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

hey gunny- have you ever converted an old AC motor- like the ones used in the track cleaning cars to DC? I was thinking about doing so to keep the motor noise down. I am not sure DC would do it though. I have two of these I push/pull with TMCC GP7. It looks good but those cleaner motors commutating together, you can sure hear that thing coming! I use a high track voltage-18+ when running the geep so the cleaners are spinning full boar. I thought if I put a bridge rectifier and large CAP on each cleaner, it might quiet them down a Little? -love your input!!


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

NIMT said:


> Plandis,
> Ask and you will receive!
> CMX Clean machine, comes in all different scales too!
> View attachment 12300





plandis said:


> Thanks BigSky! (MT that is) you say that car comes in O gauge?





NIMT said:


> They are not cheap! but anyone that I've talked with that has one loves it! They do an exellent job of keeping things clean!


I messed up! sorry about that. I confused "MT" with Montana!. -love them both! Northern Idaho- near Boise? -Beautiful!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

NO a lot farther north than Boise, I'm almost to Canada, Just about 40 miles to the north of me. Montana is about 50 miles to the east and Washington is about 50 miles to the west. We are in what they call the panhandle.

I had over 2000 feet of track on my last layout and never a problem keeping it clean. It also never messed with any of my switches! In O it works even better (Dual Pads) and there is no need for any abrasives!
I use denatured alcohol in mine!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

plandis said:


> hey gunny- have you ever converted an old AC motor- like the ones used in the track cleaning cars to DC? I was thinking about doing so to keep the motor noise down. I am not sure DC would do it though. I have two of these I push/pull with TMCC GP7. It looks good but those cleaner motors commutating together, you can sure hear that thing coming! I use a high track voltage-18+ when running the geep so the cleaners are spinning full boar. I thought if I put a bridge rectifier and large CAP on each cleaner, it might quiet them down a Little? -love your input!!


Truthfully, there is not much you can do to quiet those motors, other than a good lube job and make sure the brushes and commutator is clean. DC won't make it run any quieter. Since they're universal motors, they should run on DC without any changes, I'll give that a try here in a minute.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the test results are in. I dug out my track cleaning car and ran it on AC and DC, there was no change in the sound level. I do note that it had a different "growl" using DC, but it's still noisy. You don't have to do anything as I said, it's a universal motor and will run on either AC or DC. 

If you want it to run slower on the 18V, try sticking a 6A diode in series with the motor, that will cut down the voltage.

BTW, what will quiet it down some is to lube it. Since it's been in the box for a long time, I pulled the armature and lubed both ends of the shaft, cleaned the commutator, and lubed all the gears and axles. That helped about 20-30% with the noise, still noisy.

I'm working on a way to mount Scotchbrite at the right height to use that as a cleaning medium, I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Lube it---great idea! And maybe some white lithium grease on that pad that drags across the rails to reduce the noise level from the scrubbing?:stroke:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's only for S-scale folks, I keep grease off my tracks.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

S scalers don't need grease: our tracks don't squeak!


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Well, the test results are in. I dug out my track cleaning car and ran it on AC and DC, there was no change in the sound level. I do note that it had a different "growl" using DC, but it's still noisy. You don't have to do anything as I said, it's a universal motor and will run on either AC or DC.
> 
> If you want it to run slower on the 18V, try sticking a 6A diode in series with the motor, that will cut down the voltage.
> 
> ...


Thanks for running that test. I was just think there should be a way to hush them down a little. I did go through the gearboxes, motors commutators, new springs and brushes. Like you said- a little help but still in the noisy category! I run two at a time so its twice the growl. I have a hard time parting with the $$$ for the CMX solution given I got these motorized cleaners. could the scotch bright pad be attached to the foam donut to add down-pressure to the scatch bright pad or were you thinking just attach the scotch bright directly to the aluminum rotating disk with some sort of spacer?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I ordered a couple spare disks to play with, and I'm going to work on attaching the Scotchbrite directly to the disk, don't know exactly how. I want some method of mounting that I can easily replace the Scotchbrite when it gets worn, that's the sticking point.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Attach the hook side of Velcro to your pads and that will hold scotch brite on to the pads.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I tried both sides of the Velcro, didn't seem to grab the Scotchbrite very well, that's why I'm thinking of alternatives. Maybe I have to revisit that, but I wasn't having much luck.

BTW, it's snowing here, in OCTOBER! What the hell is going on???


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

"global warming"

the almanac says we're suppose to get a colder/wetter winter this year. we'll see. we usually get at least a dusting every year.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, it is snowing where you are because of global warming. 

I remember being on Long Island about 18 years ago when they had all the ice storms. We blamed it on global warming.

BTW, NASA blew away the idea that the climate changes we are experiencing are caused by man's activities. 

BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Where's *Al Gore* when you need him? I need some warm weather, so I figure if he comes and camps out in my driveway, I'll be all set. It wouldn't dare snow on the *Master of the Universe*.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I blame Global Warming on Al Gore's hot air!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, he sure contributed to it in any case!


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## plandis (Oct 5, 2011)

have you see his "carbon footprint" with all those jets, mansions, motorcades??? what a buffoon! - also invented Internet you know...


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