# DCC track question



## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Hi,
I’m waiting for several pieces of track to arrive to finish a small layout.
I’d like to confirm that this track design is ok to run, without damaging my new locomotives.

I’m using Kato HO track. It’s an 8x5 oval with an inner “u” shaped track that is joined to the outside track about midway down the oval’s straight. One side connects with a 6” right turnout and the other side connects with a 6” left crossover.

The turnouts connecting the outer oval to the inner “U” shaped track are set to non power routing. I believe this configuration means there is power to both routes of the turnouts when switched to turn and when switched for straight though route.

Since it’s still in design stage, I have only one section of track feeding power

Question is ... is this safe to run a locomotive? 
I assume it is, but since I’m new to model railroading ... I thought it wise to seek some expert advice before testing 

Thanks


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

It will be fine. You're right, non-power routing means all the track is powered all the time.

Unless you solder all the sections then you may expect to have a few dead spots and adding more power feeders might be a good idea, but it's small enough that there shouldn't be any significant voltage drop if you choose to use only one feeder.

ADDED: Are these insulated frog turnouts, or electric frogs?


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Thanks very much Tom_C ... nice to know I’m not going to damage a new locomotive 

Gonna add lots of feeders, once I finalize the layout ... thanks for mentioning that though


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

There are lots of opinions on this topic. I think for your size layout with 2 turnouts then you will be fine, but I'm no expert.

As you expand your layout you will no doubt read and learn about all the ins and outs.


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

I believe these Kato turnouts are insulated, and power gets to the other side of the switch through the internal of the turnout ... not through the frog. 
I’m new at this though, so not sure if my understanding is correct.

The inner “U” shape track also has a turnout that branches into three team track, but my main concern was about the connection of the inner “U” to the outside oval.

Thanks again


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## Tom_C (Jan 8, 2016)

I think you get it. If the frog is plastic, then it's insulated.

That's probably the best way to go to start. May have problems if you are running shorter locomotives, but you can cross that bridge later.... by problem I mean the lights might blink or the sound cut out going over the frog, but it won't hurt the loco. If you are going really slow then it might stop completely if the power cuts out going over the frog.


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

I agree that from your description, it sounds like everything should work fine. I read your original post a couple of times just to make sure that that you don't have a reversing loop, which it sounds like you don't. You describe your inner loop as "U" shaped which means that no matter which path is taken, your train will always be going either clockwise or counter-clockwise, so no reversing loop.

(BTW, if you did have a reversing loop that wasn't specifically handled, you would get a short when you turned rail power on. All DCC controllers would sense this and shut down with some sort of warning displayed. So you'd probably hit this before you even put a locomotive on the track.)

Mark


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Good stuff ... thanks for taking time to help


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Track works good ... next is building a table


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## Mark VerMurlen (Aug 15, 2015)

Congrats! Its always a great milestone to get your first train running on new track.

Mark


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

haha, yes ... lots of fun


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

cpbc said:


> Gonna add lots of feeders, once I finalize the layout ... thanks for mentioning that though


You should only need two power feeds as I read it with insulation joiners between the two switches at the bottom facing each other.


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Cycleops said:


> You should only need two power feeds as I read it with insulation joiners between the two switches at the bottom facing each other.


Hi, and thanks for your comments.
not sure what you mean ... perhaps we are talking about two different things. And/or perhaps, I'm missing something.

To clarify ... the small track layout image i posted is powered by a single Digitrax DCS 51. I have only three DCC locomotives at this time, and will probably run a maximum of four (due to limited room).
I plan to run a 14 gauge bus wire connected to the DCS 51 ... with five or six feeders joining the bus at various locations (using Kato uni-joiners and Kato track feeders).

Also, about the turnouts that face each other at the center bottom of image ... that is a Kato made crossover that comes assembled. I have the jumpers set to non power routing.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Sorry, when you say ‘feeds’ I’m assuming you mean track power feeds. If that’s the case you only need two, add more if you wish but that’s all you need. Generally people add feeds to obviate any potential power drops between sections of flex track. Kato is pretty much bulletproof electrical integrity wise. Yes, if your crossover came pre assembled the wiring issues will have been addressed.
The bus is a good idea as you’ll likely need to power other things.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

More than two pairs of track feeder wires would be overkill in my opinion...on the pictured layout of tracks. If the total run of the main loop is about 15 feet, two pairs. Once you get around 20 feet total, now your pairs of feeders have to feed about ten feet in each direction if there are only two pairs...a bit thin in terms of desired control of voltage drop along the rails. Once you get a pair of feeders supplying power about eight feet in each direction, you would be advised to insert yet another pair of feeders. 

Not strictly necessary, as tests show, but for the time it takes, it's cheap insurance against unwanted voltage drop. So, I tend to agree with Cycleops. If you wish to have robust control of voltage along the entire loop, spend the time soldering most of the joiners. Then, those two sets of feeders will do fairly nicely. Again, just my opinion.


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Thanks again all ...

It’s Kato track ... so I’m not comfortable with soldering it together, but maybe in the future if I get brave.

Got the table done today though ...


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

I understand completely. I would be hesitant to solder such track elements as well, especially since you have perhaps 30 of them. And, if you ever wish to dismantle it, whether to try another arrangement, or to sell it and try your hand with flextrack, it would be so much harder if it were largely soldered.

Unfortunately, those joiners get weaker and wider with time. Each time you slide them off or on, you weaken them a tiny bit. The effect is cumulative. Also, they are not the same metal as the nickel-silver rails, so there will be a slight galvanic effect that will rob the connection of its integrity and you'll get more disruptions in power from the joiners. Again, this rarely happens on the sixth sliding action, but it could happen on the 12th, if you understand my meaning. 

I don't mean to pour water over your fire...I just want you to have knowledge so that, if/when you do begin to experience power connectivity problems at a later date, suspect loose/dirty joiner connections as one of your points of interest. In later times, perhaps with flex track, or even if you stick with the Unitrack, you can solder the odd joiner that you know is giving you troubles.

BTW, do you happen to have a multimeter? You can order them for just a few dollars from Harbor Freight, or go to your local builders' supply outfit and expect to pay perhaps $15-20 for a half-decent digital one. Set the instrument to AC if you are using DCC to control your locomotive(s), and the scale to 20 volts. When you have apparent power problems that are not shorts, use the probes, gently touching the rails near the stalled locomotive, to see if the AC current is near 13-15 volts indicated. If it shows near 2-6 volts, you have bad electrical contact between rail elements, or a bad power supply.


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

Hey thanks for the info ... new at this, so appreciate help.

Comox I see, I’m not far south ... Nanaimo


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

From the Kato website:
“UNITRACK features a nickel-silver rail”


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I think mesenteria meant the joiners are a different material to the nickel silver rails, I don’t know if this is the case with Kato. If you have a permanent layout you shouldn’t have any problems, if you do you can find any power drop outs with a multi meter, always useful to have anyway as he says.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

cpbc said:


> Hey thanks for the info ... new at this, so appreciate help.
> 
> Comox I see, I’m not far south ... Nanaimo


Hey, Nanaimo! Good to see a close neighbour here.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

cpbc said:


> From the Kato website:
> “UNITRACK features a nickel-silver rail”


Actually, I had not anticipated what Cycleops states above, that the Kato version of joiner sleeves might be the same metal as the nickel silver rails. If I had to bet, I'd place a large chunk on their not being N/S because it's a softer metal than the thin steel used on the Atlas and Peco styles of joiners.

This is not a huge issue anyway. The biggest failure with joiners is their loss of metal-to-metal electrical contact over time, not quite so bad with their ability to mechanically align the two rail ends they are joining. The 'older' you get in the HO and N hobby, the more you accept that mechanical alignment is what you rely on them for in the long term, not to keep the electrons flowing. So, I solder most, not all, of my joints on my layouts to improve both qualities, as do most of us.

I don't solder all of them so that if the room gets really hot, or really cold, or the humidity soars to 90% for a couple of weeks when I'm not looking, the few sliding joiners will help to prevent the rails from buckling, or gross separations that might tear away soldered feeders and such.


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## cpbc (Jan 8, 2018)

from Kato website:
“connect the sections together using standard nickel-silver rail joiners (available at your local hobby shop).”

Thanks for mentioning the long term stuff about track alignment and joiners’ loss of conductivity.
Good to know ... I plan to secure the track down eventually and may even try soldering on some spare track.

Have to admit though ... I’m happy to have a small layout, a few cool locomotives, and a little rolling stock.
Never thought I’d enjoy so much ... seeing/hearing/operating these model trains 

I moved the crossover closer to the end curve, hoping to get more length out of the two tracks running past on the inside.
Was concerned it might be too quick of a transition off the corner ... but it works great. And is really interesting to watch the train cross over at that point.


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