# AF Pilot Truck Springs?



## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Mopac, I have searched the forum but I cannot find the thread which you described the trouble that you had placing a spring on the leading pilot trucks. Two questions did it work keeping some derailments? Also, how did you eventually get the springs on the shaft? I have tried and tried but my fat fingers and shaky hands keep me from success. Any suggestions?:dunno:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, it wasn't real easy but not too hard. On the smaller end of the spring, with pliers
I bent the end of spring out some to thread it on the rivet. Took awhile but I finally got it on and it makes a world of difference. My 282 would not go a half lap and the front pilot wheels were off the track. They still have not come off once. It is frustrating but keep with it, you will get it on. Take deep breathes every once in awhile. The easy way would be
to cut the old rivet , get a new rivet, run new rivet up through the pilot wheel frame, 
put the spring on (narrow end of spring down) and then up through crosshead frame and crimp the rivet, done. I just do not have a rivet crimper. Plus to cheap to buy a new rivet.

I have a 302 that its pilot wheels are always off the track. Yes, I believe in the spring

Let us know if you get it on and how it is working for you.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, maybe rivet is crimped at the bottom not the top. You can look at which way yours is. I think it goes rivet down not up. They do sell new rivets for it. That's just if you just can not get the spring on with rivet intact. Once you get a couple windings on you are home free. I think I did have to walk away from it a couple times LOL. And then bent end of spring out some with needlenose. That will help you get started.

And I did remove the pilot assembly from the loco. You don't need the loco in the way.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Broke, maybe rivet is crimped at the bottom not the top. You can look at which way yours is. I think it goes rivet down not up. They do sell new rivets for it. That's just if you just can not get the spring on with rivet intact. Once you get a couple windings on you are home free. I think I did have to walk away from it a couple times LOL. And then bent end of spring out some with needlenose. That will help you get started.
> 
> And I did remove the pilot assembly from the loco. You don't need the loco in the way.


Thanks! I will keep on trying. Patience has never been my chief quality.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Love the patch. And I understand it. LOL.

Hope I helped some. I have only done one but I think the next ones will go quicker. Bending the end of the spring will help thread it.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Checking on you Broke. Did you get the spring on and how is it working.
Or did you throw the spring at the wall. LOL.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Checking on you Broke. Did you get the spring on and how is it working.
> Or did you throw the spring at the wall. LOL.


Springs bounce off of the walls.:laugh: I haven't been successful yet but I will keep on trying. I have been thinking about just buying some hollow rivets from Jeff at The Train Tender. I will see...


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Using a new rivet would be a lot easier. The whole job would probably be done in less than 5 minutes. And it would distort the spring less. LOL. I need to get me a rivet tool.
Sooner or later all my AF locos will have a pilot spring. When those pilot wheels derail
there is a wreck coming. Mine usually catch on a turnout and derails the loco. I would
like to have some rerailers but I am not paying 30 bucks a piece for them. 10 would be
my max, lol, so I will not be getting many.

I don't know why the pilot wheels derail so easily. Mine seem to float up off the rails.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Broke, the springs are worth the effort. I put one on my 282 about a month ago
and the pilot wheels have not derailed once and they were bad, very bad, about derailing.

The springs adds some downforce and keeps pilot wheels from floating off the rails.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Using a new rivet would be a lot easier. The whole job would probably be done in less than 5 minutes. And it would distort the spring less. LOL. I need to get me a rivet tool.
> Sooner or later all my AF locos will have a pilot spring. When those pilot wheels derail
> there is a wreck coming. Mine usually catch on a turnout and derails the loco. I would
> like to have some rerailers but I am not paying 30 bucks a piece for them. 10 would be
> my max, lol, so I will not be getting many.


I was astounded with the going price of rerailers.:thumbsdown: 

On another note here is my latest tale of woe due to old age and stupidity":smilie_auslachen: 
I spent about ten days trying to rewire my 21160. It would not work.:smilie_daumenneg: Three times I rewired a very basic circuit. Still, nada! I even bought a new DPDT Slide Switch even though the original one tested good. :thumbsdown: I was ready just to throw the whole thing into the trash even though I paid $19 for it. Then... Out of the blue I realized that I was trying to power it with a AC transformer instead of a DC power supply.:smilie_auslachen::smilie_auslachen:
My mind is going but where I do not know.:hah::hah::hah:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I didn't know it was DC powered only.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I took up my floor layout late last night. The weatherman was predicting heavy rains.
My basement will leak water with heavy rains. 3 inches or more. I never did see how many inches they were calling for but did not want to take a chance. In all of 2017 it
never leaked a drop. Once again the weatherman was wrong. We did get some rain
but certainly not heavy rain. I have a large wet dry vac and I soak the water up as it comes in. So I set my alarm clock for 1:30 and it was barely raining. Set it for 2:30
and the same. LOL, I slept the rest of the way. What spurred the rain was it got up to 60 yesterday and humidity was high. Nice and sunny today, rain is gone. But so is my floor
layout.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> I didn't know it was DC powered only.


I was wrong again. It is both and I got it running. I even modified it by adding a smoke unit. All this only took me three weeks of trial and error. Of course it is no longer a 21160 anymore. I will make up a number and repaint the cab number.:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> I took up my floor layout late last night. The weatherman was predicting heavy rains.
> My basement will leak water with heavy rains. 3 inches or more. I never did see how many inches they were calling for but did not want to take a chance. In all of 2017 it
> never leaked a drop. Once again the weatherman was wrong. We did get some rain
> but certainly not heavy rain. I have a large wet dry vac and I soak the water up as it comes in. So I set my alarm clock for 1:30 and it was barely raining. Set it for 2:30
> ...


Don't give up yet. Buy a board and mount you track on it and then all you have to do is stand it on end when your basement becomes a Mo swimming pool.:hah:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Glad you got it running, and added a smoke unit. Good job.

Did you add a headlight?


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Glad you got it running, and added a smoke unit. Good job.
> 
> Did you add a headlight?


Thanks! No headlight as of now, maybe later.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Mopac, for your information and intrest. I think that I may add some leds later.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Running good broke. Smoker is awesome, did you have to rebuild the smoke unit?
I need to get some prewound wicks. I wound 2 myself. First ended in a one second 
light show. The second lasted a couple weeks but seems to have quit.

I need to get a top gasket for 282 smoke unit. It blows as much smoke out the sides of 
smoke unit as it does up smoke tube.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Fred, on an earlier discussion topic the 21160 has a universal motor in it. It is not a DC only motor with a permanent magnet field. Properly wired with a functional DPDT switch it runs in either direction on AC. If it were a DC motor about one second of AC power would have melted the enamel on the armature windings.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

AmFlyer said:


> Fred, on an earlier discussion topic the 21160 has a universal motor in it. It is not a DC only motor with a permanent magnet field. Properly wired with a functional DPDT switch it runs in either direction on AC. If it were a DC motor about one second of AC power would have melted the enamel on the armature windings.


Thanks, I knew that but was temporarily confused due to a bind in the drive gear. It lead me down the garden path for a while. But that is not too hard to do nowadays. :smilie_auslachen:
I have eliminated the DPDT switch and replaced the wiring with a 4 wire jack setup. I going to use a different tender with a RC unit in it as well as adding leds with a full wave rectifier and voltage dropping circuit in it to power the leds. Maybe even a Super Capacitor to keep the leds alive when at a stand still.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Ambitious project.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Nice job with the smoke unit BC. Why not just leave the number on the cab alone? A reverse unit in the tender is also a good upgrade. Makes running a lot more fun.


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

The method I have used is to carefully cut out the rivet using a dremel. Then I tap the hole where the rivet was (2-56 tap I think), put the spring around a long shank draw bar screw, and screw it into the tapped hole in the pilot.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Good method Chuck. I had thought about a screw. The springs are worth the effort.

I grew up in Houston, I know Cypress is right near.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Also, don't forget there are several different versions of the front truck; some are sheet metal, some are die-cast, and some of them do indeed have a screw instead of a rivet.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

Chuck7612;[RIGHT said:


> [/RIGHT]2097242]The method I have used is to carefullsy cut out the rivet using a dremel. Then I tap the hole where the rivet was (2-56 tap I think), put the spring around a long shank draw bar screw, and screw it into the tapped hole in the pilot.


Good tip, Thanks!


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## Chuck7612 (Jul 2, 2017)

Just looked it up and the AF long shank draw bar screw is 4-40 thread, thus the tap size that is needed.

Yup Mopac, right here next to Houston. Been here for 19 years now


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

I found an easier way to attached a coiled spring to the pilot truck. Instead of winding the spring from the bottom I started winding onto the shaft just above the guide and truck assembly. As you rotate the spring, you start the small end into the slot so that as you wind the spring it encircles the shaft. This method is much easier than winding from below, at least for me.:laugh::laugh::laugh: 
For what it is worth.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Is the spring working for you?


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## BrokeCurmudgeon (Feb 8, 2016)

mopac said:


> Is the spring working for you?


It looks good so far. The problem is that my 21160 took a flying leap off the table onto the concrete floor. I failed to check the turnout on the route tha dead ends when the back portion of the ping pong table is folded up. Dumb!:smilie_daumenpos:
I am rebuilding it again. The only major damage was to the plastic shell. hwell:


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Flying leaps are never good for locomotives. It happens more than you would think.
My '48 302 from flyernut got her pilot wheels hung up on a switch and she just laid over
on her side. No damage. I wasn't highballing.


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