# Locomotive capability questions



## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

I have a mis-match of trains that I'm looking to get running. I have a loop of 027 track set up that is about 4 ft by 6 ft. I'm using an MRC Tech II Trainpower 027 transformer with one lockon for power. One engine is a Lionel SOO 8569 diesel (red body, power goes to one set of 'trucks'). The other two are steam engines: a Lionel 1060 and a Lionel 1654. Here are my questions:

1. The diesel doesn't pull much of anything beyond the light plastic cars it came with. Is this just a weak engine that won't be able to pull older pre-war cars, or is my transformer underpowered?

2. The 1654 is a heavy locomotive. It does better at pulling more cars, but tends to derail its front two wheels, and won't go through the remote 1122 switches (not sure if these are good). Are there adjustments I should make to either the front wheels or the switches so this engine works better?

3. The 1060 is very light (plastic body), and runs great with just its tender, but adding more than a couple of cars behind it results in the drive wheels just spinning. Not very fun.

4. If I want to pull four or five heavier cars, should I be looking at a different locomotive and if so, what?

5. If I want to have an elevated section of track, what dictates whether the train will get up the grade? Is it the engine, the transformer, or both?

Sorry for the long post. Thank you for your help.

Paul


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

These two steamers are Scouts. Old ones. They do have trouble with crossovers and switches.ecause of the long storage running them will help. To pull more check out craigslists some are overpriced but they have plenty of modern type Scouts and less infrequent like the 2026. Largewr ones are out there too. The next step up is a 2026 2016,2018 they all the same.

For example this set is from the 70's not 50's. Not too bad for the price. But 70 will get you a good engine.


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

T-man - thanks for the info. I'll look for those engines and see what I find. I just happened to see that posting before reading your reply.

I also saw a link for a 6-30018 Penn Flyer set - all fastrack. Any opinions on these newer sets? Worth looking into? Was considering running that on an outer loop for the kids and maybe run the older stuff on a separate inner loop.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The new stuff you mentioned is good for the kids. The flyer sets are starters and run well. They have a DC motor and an electronic e unit. The transformers are AC. We have to educate you on better stock so you can decide where you want to go. Many options exists. You can do this hobby and never walk into a train store. It's all about what you want to do. Craigslist has a 50 set that isn't great. Look carefully and appears cheep. The 75 buck one isn't bad. There is the antique 262e for 450! Just kidding!
If you go DCC, that's what a new engine costs!

When I search I just type Lionel and then watch the list.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

k2ldc10 said:


> I have a mis-match of trains that I'm looking to get running. I have a loop of 027 track set up that is about 4 ft by 6 ft. I'm using an MRC Tech II Trainpower 027 transformer with one lockon for power. One engine is a Lionel SOO 8569 diesel (red body, power goes to one set of 'trucks'). The other two are steam engines: a Lionel 1060 and a Lionel 1654. Here are my questions:
> 
> 1. The diesel doesn't pull much of anything beyond the light plastic cars it came with. Is this just a weak engine that won't be able to pull older pre-war cars, or is my transformer underpowered?
> 
> ...


4' x 6' is not much space to have an elevated track. The engine will dictate pulling the grade. With a small layout, the transformer should power it just fine. 
But I don't know about the tech 2? How many watts are they?

Don't know about the diesel.

The 1060 is not getting traction but has the power, try bull frog snot. Google it. It might work. The 1060 was uncatalogued and made for cheap promotional sets.

Most all of my scouts pull fine no matter how many cars I am pulling.

The 1654 is jumping at the switches could be the switch itself. Or could be that the front pilot truck spring is weak or missing?


Out of the repair manual,
The 1654 was made to pull only 4 or 5 light cars with an initial track voltage of 10 volts gradually increasing to 14 volts as the motor winding warms up and the resistance increases. 
Because of the relatively low speed , the motor has good brush wear, but requires frequent cleaning of the slots between the segments of the commutator. They are easily accessible from the left side of the engine.

( you can clean them with a toothpick.)


T mans advise is good, look for a better engine. (I don't know about the diesel.)

Try to fit a 4' x 8' too for your table if you can.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Here is a 224 set from the 40's. The predecessor to the 2026. Maybe steep in price but it is just an example. If it was cheep it would be sold .

ED they are 100 watts.

The 8569 is a NW-2 switcher from 75-79, it looks like a 600MKT postwar.
A picture of the engine would be nice too.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Here is a 224 set from the 40's. The predecessor to the 2026. Maybe steep in price but it is just an example. If it was cheep it would be sold .
> 
> ED they ar 100 watts.



100 watts should be more then enough for a 4' x 6'.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Some Scouts (like my 233) were made with magnetraction drive wheels, specifically to provide for more up-grade pulling power. I don't think that's the case with most Scouts, though.

Ed ... Can he Bullfrog the drive wheels? Wouldn't that insulate the ground circuit back to the outer rails ??? (That stuff isn't conductive, is it ???)

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Some Scouts (like my 233) were made with magnetraction drive wheels, specifically to provide for more up-grade pulling power. I don't think that's the case with most Scouts, though.
> 
> Ed ... Can he Bullfrog the drive wheels? Wouldn't that insulate the ground circuit back to the outer rails ??? (That stuff isn't conductive, is it ???)
> 
> TJ



Just one shouldn't hurt I would think.
I never used the snot myself.


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

T-Man said:


> We have to educate you on better stock so you can decide where you want to go.


That's exactly where I'm at... trying to educate myself on what is wothwhile to purchase. I'm not so interested in it from the collector perspective. I just want to have fun with the kids and when we want the trains to run, they should run without having to fix something every time. I don't mind paying a little more for something that will run well, I just don't to pay more than I should.

I'm thinking I should stick with used stuff. I have quite a few accessories (flagman building, operating refrigerated milk car, operating coal dump car, water tower, horse corral with car) that would probably look odd with newer engines. I need to pick a direction and go that way. I think if I focus on getting a strong engine or two that is my best bet.


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

big ed said:


> 4' x 6' is not much space to have an elevated track. The engine will dictate pulling the grade. With a small layout, the transformer should power it just fine.
> 
> The 1654 is jumping at the switches could be the switch itself. Or could be that the front pilot truck spring is weak or missing?


Ed - The 4' x 6' is just what I set up quickly. I have about 5 shelving boards from a closet that are 55" x 22", which I plan to frame together to make a board that will be just short of 10' long. That should give me plenty of room. The overall goal is to put the whole thing on a pulley system so I can raise and lower it out of the way in my garage.

Thank you for the 1654 information. I don't think there is a spring, so that's probably the problem. I don't think the switches are perfect either. There were some used manual ones in the store locally for $10 each I think I'll get. I don't want to buy too much track just yet until I decide if I'm sticking with the 027 I have or upgrading to 0. Not sure if I need to upgrade - the track I have just needs some light cleaning and tightening up in spots. No rust anywhere.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

k2ldc10 said:


> Ed - The 4' x 6' is just what I set up quickly. I have about 5 shelving boards from a closet that are 55" x 22", which I plan to frame together to make a board that will be just short of 10' long. That should give me plenty of room. The overall goal is to put the whole thing on a pulley system so I can raise and lower it out of the way in my garage.
> 
> Thank you for the 1654 information. I don't think there is a spring, so that's probably the problem. I don't think the switches are perfect either. There were some used manual ones in the store locally for $10 each I think I'll get. I don't want to buy too much track just yet until I decide if I'm sticking with the 027 I have or upgrading to 0. Not sure if I need to upgrade - the track I have just needs some light cleaning and tightening up in spots. No rust anywhere.




Did you see this thread? 

Exactly what you need.:thumbsup:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5313

Click on all of his pictures.

Just what you ordered.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Paul,

You likely already know it, but I believe that 1060 Scout was forward, only ... no reversing e-unit installed.

As you think about your "new" loco options, I've found these two websites to be quite helpful offering nice bios on Lionel's postwar fleet:

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionellocomotives.htm
http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionelident.htm

http://www.postwarlionel.com/steam.html
http://www.postwarlionel.com/

The Tandem one breaks the listing down into O27 and O locos.

Cheers,

TJ


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

big ed said:


> Did you see this thread?
> 
> Exactly what you need.:thumbsup:
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5313
> ...


Ed - WOW! Timing is everything. That is exactly what I'm after. I envisioned it differently, but this is much more elegant. Thank you so much.


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Paul,
> 
> You likely already know it, but I believe that 1060 Scout was forward, only ... no reversing e-unit installed.


TJ - yes, I was aware the 1060 was forward only, but thank you for making sure I knew that - you never know what folks don't know!

I came across those sites this morning when looking up the locomotives that T-MAN mentioned. Looks like I need to sit down and do some reading, zero in on some locomotives, and then start combing through listings and garage sales!

You guys are great. Thank you so much for helping out. I really appreciate it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

k2ldc10 said:


> Ed - WOW! Timing is everything. That is exactly what I'm after. I envisioned it differently, but this is much more elegant. Thank you so much.




I didn't think you saw that.
Glad to be of help.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

k2ldc10 said:


> Ed - The 4' x 6' is just what I set up quickly. I have about 5 shelving boards from a closet that are 55" x 22", which I plan to frame together to make a board that will be just short of 10' long. That should give me plenty of room. The overall goal is to put the whole thing on a pulley system so I can raise and lower it out of the way in my garage.
> 
> Thank you for the 1654 information. I don't think there is a spring, so that's probably the problem. I don't think the switches are perfect either. There were some used manual ones in the store locally for $10 each I think I'll get. I don't want to buy too much track just yet until I decide if I'm sticking with the 027 I have or upgrading to 0. Not sure if I need to upgrade - the track I have just needs some light cleaning and tightening up in spots. No rust anywhere.



The spring doesn't look like a spring from a pen.
It is a flat but flexible piece. I don't know if bending it a little would help. 
It might put the flex back in it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Heres another thread on a pulley set up.

check it out.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=38730#post38730


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## k2ldc10 (Nov 28, 2010)

big ed said:


> The spring doesn't look like a spring from a pen.
> It is a flat but flexible piece. I don't know if bending it a little would help.
> It might put the flex back in it.


I noticed it had 'spring steel' for the spring on that particular engine. On my 1060 or my 242, it actually has a small coil spring between the arm that the wheels are mounted to at its pivot point and the rivet / screw used to hold it to the engine. That seems to work just fine and does not derail as easily.

Thanks for the other suspended table thread. There's some good info there on geometry to consider - very good to know!


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