# What turnouts and did I buy the right track?



## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I got my N scale stuff out of storage and dusted it off after about 15 years of storage. I had a small layout about 15 years ago but no space and little time for it. So everything went into storage. Most of it is still nice I think. Given my still limited space, I am building an N scale glass top coffee table layout. I like that it will be always visible and always covered to reduce dust. I have contracted with a local cabinetmaker to build the coffee table from maple with a removable layout drawer so I can take the whole layout out of the table to work on it. The drawer also has a removable false bottom so if needed I can actually remove the layout from the drawer to access the very edges. Internal usable dimensions for the layout are 49x26 inches. Yes, it's small, but it is a conversation and entertainment piece, not a full-size functional layout. I'll have fun with it, and I'll have something interesting to show visitors.

I've decided to model Georgia and North and Central Florida in the early 1970's, since that's when I did my earliest train watching. I'll be operating the Seaboard Coast Line in its black and yellow paint scheme and the Central of Georgia in its black and silver paint scheme but still with CoG lettering as Southern was repainting everything with their name. I may be fudging it a bit by having CoG loco lettering in the mid 70's instead of Southern lettering, but that's fine with me. It's not going to be 100% accurate.

I'll be posting some pictures of the table and the layout. I also have some questions that need expert answers, so if you see me post questions, please give me your thoughts. The table isn't due to be finished until Christmas, which is just about perfect timing for a new train set, right? I already bought a dozen pieces of rolling stock and three locomotives. Atlas is making a run of C420 locomotives in the Seaboard Coast Line black and yellow due this quarter, but I missed the pre-order date by a long time. I hate that we now only have one month to find out that a model is being produced and place our orders. I guess it's better than retailers being stuck with the same old inventory for a long time, but I think 2-3 months advance notice would be better.

So, I saw some pictures of Micro Engineering code 70 weathered flex track, and they looked good to me, and then I saw a good price from a place where I could combine shipping. I figured it would have enough clearance to run my old locomotives and rolling stock with large flanges without changing out wheel sets. So 12 pieces ended up in my shopping cart and I checked out. 

Now I have to decide on turnouts. I only need three. I will not now or ever be using DCC in this ultra simple coffee table layout. It's going to be DC. Will Peco turnouts be too hard to install and/or unsightly? They are code 80 I think. How hard is it to join code 70 rail and code 80 turnouts? What about Atlas turnouts? I have read so many bad things about the ME turnouts over the past few days of research that I am very hesitant to use them. In a coffee table layout, the three turnouts have to be completely bullet proof. 

I also have another turnout question. I want two of these turnouts to be powered from a switch outside the table so I can use a siding. Because the layout is in a coffee table drawer, under table turnout motors are not an option. I see that Peco turnout motors can be installed in the foam under the turnout, but they seem to require a full inch under the roadbed, and I'm only going to have a half inch of foam that I could scoop out, and that's not deep enough. Atlas switch machines mounted on the sides of the switches are ugly and hard to disguise, so that's not a great solution. Maybe mount the Peco turnout motors off to the side sunk half way below the surface, disguised with bushes, and make a connection rod from the turnout motor to the turnout? This sounds like a pain. In any case, I want bullet proof turnouts, and I don't want to try to lay my own. Brand name and reliability are key. Hiding the turnout motors to the extent possible is key. I'm open to suggestions.

Now, how many weeks is it until Christmas when my cofffee table is supposed to be ready? Just like being a kid again, only this time with a bank account.

-Florida RR-


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Nice idea. I guess you've decided on a track plan. 

You can use the Peco and ME track, there will be a slight height variation which you could adjust by filing. Why don't you use Peco track and turnouts? You can use their code 55 which gives a finer scale appearance. The Peco motors just clip underneath the turnout so just need a space cutting out for them. They won't be visible from above. They snap from side to side with a buzz when operated. You could consider using servo operated motors which move in a slow quiet prototypical manner, it's your choice.

You'll need a false bottom on the table in order to hide the point motors and wiring.

Good luck and have fun.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Peco turnouts are a very wise choice. You simply do
not have derails on them which, for your coffee table
layout, would be very important.

The N scale Peco code 55 turnouts are available only
as Electrofrog. The only negative on them is that
you must place an insulated joiner in both frog rails
to prevent a short circuit since the polarity of the frog
changes as the points are thrown.

You can mount the PL 10 Peco motors off to the side. 
But, wouldn't it be a better idea to use foam thick enough
that you can bury the PL-10 attached to the turnout?

I'm anxious to see how you can have the Seaboard Air
Line tracks from Georgia, thru Jacksonville and on
to Mid and South Florida on a coffee table size layout.

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Micro Engineering's turnouts*

Florida RR;

I'm surprised that you have "read so many bad things about Micro Engineering turnouts."
As far as I know, Micro Engineering has yet to make any bad product. I have three of their early turnouts on my layout and don't know of any problems with them. The only criticism I know of is that Micro Engineering makes only #6 right and #6 left. That's it. No other frog #s,no wyes, no curved turnouts.

Atlas, Bachman, Lifelike, Etc. are not only ugly, they don't work well either. I think you are wise in avoiding them.

I agree with DonR's recommendation of using Peco turnouts on your table layout. They are very reliable.

As for throwing the points of your turnouts, several methods come to mind.

1) Get some small, DC geared stall motors from, WWW.allelectronics.com. they could be 
hidden in shallow foam, or under a bush, or structure. 

2) use manual linkages through the front of the drawer.

3) Use small servos from www.tamvalleydepot.com CTvalley is our resident expert on these so ask him for details.

4) Once you have decided on a turnout throwing device, you have to control it.
Option 2 has that covered. Options 1 or 3 could be controlled by normal wiring or some radio or optical remote. Option 3 would be using off the shelf technology. Model airplane flyers have been using radio controlled servos for years. You might have to engineer something for option 1 although component parts are available.

Good Luck with your project! We would love to see pictures of the finished coffee table railroad. 

Traction Fan


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I figured I might stir up some controversy with that comment on the Micro Engineering turnouts. All I know since I have never owned one is what I have read, and you can't always believe what you read. After a week of Google searches, I have found a number of negative comments about their reliability. They always seem to get the highest marks for appearance but not always the highest marks for reliability. My search results turned up far fewer negative comments about the Peco turnouts. So I figured I would ask here and see what people think. It may be six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Being in a table, the trains are going to run daily, hour after hour after hour, day after day, month after month. The layout space is small at only 26 x 49 inches, so each of the three turnouts is going to get a constant beating.  It's not a bedroom-size layout where a train might run over a turnout a few times an hour - more like once a minute. I had a track layout that called for 5 turnouts, and I discarded that one because I figure the fewer turnouts I use the better in this particular situation.

I was attracted to the motors for the Peco turnouts that can be clipped beneath the turnout and buried in the foam. If I do that, I'll need to change my plan to include 1" of foam in the layout drawer instead of 1/2." This may be an issue since, working inside a glass coffee table, I have absolute limits. It's not too late for me to add and extra 1/2" of depth to the layout drawer since the cabinetmaker who is building it has not started yet. I will do some math tonight to see if I can accommodate the extra 1/2" without changing the depth of the layout drawer. Even if I can, it will make me be even more careful about the height of structures and trees. A coffee table requires attention to height details that can be ignored on open layouts.

As I posted earlier, I bought the ME code 70 flex track already. It might not have been the wisest move, but it looked good to me, and the price was very good. I'm thinking that it would be good with the Peco turnouts, unless someone can convince me that I should use the Micro Engineering turnouts. If the ME code 70 track wasn't the best choice, I can sell it easily enough. It's only 12 pieces so it's not going to bust the bank if I change my mind. 

I decided not to use code 55 (for the third time) on this layout. My previous 2 didn't use code 55 either. I want the ability to run old stuff with huge wheel flanges and not have to worry about it or change wheel sets. I don't mind the extra rail height. I'm not going for serious scale appearance. With such narrow curves it's always going to look somewhat toy-ish, and I'm fine with that.

I've got to go do some more math for the table drawer dimensions now before my cabinetmaker gets started. I'll post the diagrams of the table at some point. It's not supposed to be ready until around Christmas.

-Florida RR-


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

traction fan said:


> ... Model airplane flyers have been using radio controlled servos for years. You might have to engineer something for option 1 although component parts are available.


Haha! Why didn't I think of that? My other hobby is RC helicopters. I did read about and considered the manual option with rods routed to the front of the drawer, but I'm going the electrical route one way or another. There will be four drawers underneath the layout drawer for electronics and storage, which if you live in a small space like I do is critical.



traction fan said:


> Good Luck with your project! We would love to see pictures of the finished coffee table railroad.
> 
> Traction Fan


Thanks. I'll be dedicating a thread to the table at some point because although Google does turn up a number of threads and pictures for coffee table layouts, I wanted a design that would go above and beyond what I found. A company called Bakatronics offers a very nice table, but it didn't really fit my needs because I want storage underneath. They quoted me roughly $1,200 delivered, and for that I was able to work with a local cabinetmaker to have one made. I decided against glass/plexi sides. Nobody is going to get down on the floor and look through the sides of my coffee table, not even me. Ikea used to make a rectangular glass top table that was easily adapted, but not any more, and it also had no drawers.

-Florida RR-


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

DonR said:


> I'm anxious to see how you can have the Seaboard Air
> Line tracks from Georgia, thru Jacksonville and on
> to Mid and South Florida on a coffee table size layout.
> 
> Don


It's simple - cheat!  This is where pretending comes in. A lot of realism is going to have to be sacrificed inside a coffee table, like tight turns and main lines that parallel each other. I didn't mean that geographic area precisely in just four feet. More likely a scene from somewhere right on the Florida-Georgia border with a freight passing through from central Florida headed north while a Central of Georgia train moves stuff around a town.

I don't know what protocol here at ModelTrainForum is. On some hobby discussion sites, everyone wants a separate, short thread for every topic. On other sites threads veer off in totally different directions and may stay alive for years, simply refusing to die. I guess I'll keep this thread about the track and turnouts, with another one dedicated to the table and layout.

-Florida RR-


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Peco Turnouts*

Florida RR;

Peco turnouts would work well on your constant running layout. Their switch machine is of
the twin coil type, rather than slow motor like Tortoise. That's fine except that twin coil machines, under heavy use, tend to burn out. I would recommend using a capacitive discharge
unit to operate your Peco coil machines. There is a simple, inexpensive type diagrammed on
the "General Model Train Discussion" section of this forum. Also it wouldn't hurt to have some spare coils.
Don't worry about format technicalities on this forum. We are a pretty lose group. If you check some of the posts, you will see that they can veer off topic. No one cares much about that here. 

Traction Fan


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I join Traction fan to urge you to use a Cap discharge Unit to power
your Peco turnouts. The circuit shown here on the forum
can be put together for around 10.00 and will protect
those delicate PL 10 coils from stuck buttons or inadvertent
too long pushes.

You can use this thread for all developments on your
layout, makes it simple for us to follow your progress.

Don


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks for the advice folks. I definitely will build capacitive discharge units for the motors on the turnouts. I already found several plans, and I'm fine with simple circuits and soldering. I like the toggle switch approach that I found, which will make switching from main line to siding very easy. I think these will be the only two electric turnouts. The third is for a siding that is just decorative, so it will get a manual ground throw. It's never going to get used.

I've got to get back to my cabinetmaker who advised yesterday that I am going to lose 3/4" times two in width on my table with my current plan. I guess this coffee table is about to get at least an inch wider to keep my minimum radius as high as I can. I now have to find out whether I need to adjust for an extra half inch of foam underneath to accommodate the turnout motors. Having this custom built is a huge advantage because I can get exactly what I need. It's not cheap, but then again, has anyone priced an ordinary coffee table that is made from real wood like maple and a glass top? Furniture is expensive stuff. This table will last me a lifetime, and if I ever feel the need, I can put a solid wood top over the glass. 

I got my Central of Georgia Atlas RS-3 in the mail today for a mere $60 delivered and I love it. It's running on my tiny oval of test track sitting on top of my current coffee table. The Atlas C620 SCL that arrived yesterday turned out to have a defect, so back it goes. It went clunk clunk clunk down the track. Something wrong with the gears I guess. So I ordered a SCL SD-35 and as long as I was ordering I got a SCL RS-3 too. I have SCL C420's that I should be able to get when they come in to Atlas from China. I found a seller who had a cancellation so I have a good chance even though I am several months late. Good times!

-Florida RR-


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

*The answers*

1) The difference in appearance between MicroEngineering code 70 weathered flex track and Peco code 80 turnouts is massive and to me unappealing. I am hoping that weathering the turnouts and ballasting the track and the turnouts will help hide this massive difference. Atlas code 80 flex track is a very good match for the Peco turnouts, but I don't like the appearance of Atlas flex track.. I wish Peco would release code 80 turnouts with a more US appearance. I will stick with them because I want their bullet proof reliability and various available sizes.

2) The difference in the height of the code 70 track and code 80 turnout can be overcome with a piece of cardboard cut from a box of soft drinks or beer in cans. It is exactly the right height to get the turnout rail and ties and track rail and ties to align.

3) I am unwilling to bury Peco turnout motors underneath the turnout because of the risk that I would have to tear up the layout if one fails. It requires a 1" deep and large cutout in roadbed and foam underneath the turnout. The Peco PL-11 side mount turnout motors are relatively small and very easily buried in the foam and/or hidden with structures and other scenery off to the side as far as you want. All you need is .047 piano wire that I bought at a local home improvement store. Peco provided holes in the throwbar for this wire. It is an exact fit for the throwbar hole. A (low quality) pic of the test setup on cardboard is attached. When I get one installed on the layout in a few weeks I'll take a better pic. Double-sided foam tape holds the turnout motor down in this test. It could easily be recessed.

Another note: I cut my own cork roadbed because I, like some others who have posted online, can't stand the too wide commercially available cork roadbed. By the time you ballast it, it's just too wide. Cork sheet is cheap and easy to cut yourself.

Problems solved, except the appearance. I'm not willing to go to Atlas or Peco flex track, but I sure wish Peco would produce a more US appearance code 80 turnout for people like me. I'll hope that weathering the turnout and ballasting everything helps disguise the appearance problem. 

-Florida RR-


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

After you ballast, painting the sides of the rails will result
in a color match for your flex vs the Peco turnouts.

Protect those twin coil motors with a capacitor discharge unit.
They get a very short burst of juice then nothing even if you
held the 'button' down.

Don


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## Florida RR (Oct 8, 2015)

I don't know how it will all look with ballast and weathering. The Peco ties are so big and the micro engineering ties so small. I'm torn between keeping the ME or switching track brands to Atlas or Peco. I bought six pieces of ME. I can either sell the six pieces of ME that I have or buy six more. Maybe I'll go weather this Peco turnout before I make up my mind.

Is anyone else here mixing Micro Engineering flex track with Peco turnouts? If so, could you post a pic? Thanks.

-Florida RR-


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