# Quick-Look: New Lionel 18" Heavyweight Passenger Cars



## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Hi Folks,

As I mentioned in another thread, I waited with near-trepidation for the arrival of my new Lionel 18" heavyweight passenger cars -- especially after reading a slew of poor reviews over on the other place from folks who had purchased scale Polar Express cars and Pennsy heavyweight cars. Was the anxiety warranted? Somewhat, but these were not the disaster that this delivery could have been. So let's talk about the good and the not-so-good.

First up... for the sake of full disclosure, I have two separate orders arriving: today (Saturday) a few Pennsy cars arrived, and early next week several Reading & Northern cars are due to arrive. The latter were pre-ordered quite some time ago, whereas the Pennsy's were a last-minute purchase to create a short train to use with my little Lionel H-10. I liked the version Lionel catalog'd with the olive-green wheels, but I wanted to wait to see if that's actually how these cars would be produced. Quite frankly, I don't trust ANY Lionel catalog illustrations anymore, so this will be the normal modus-operandi moving forward: namely, wait to see what's actually delivered.

So referring strictly to the Pennsy cars (which are the only ones I've received thus far), these cars look spectacular and are very well detailed. While the car bodies themselves are a rather standard Tuscan Red used widely on the Pennsylvania RR, the orange window trim, gold lettering, and olive green trucks and undercarriage really make the entire paint-scheme pop. I only ordered 4 passenger cars, and none of them had any paint scratches or smudges. The plastic window glass itself has a green tint to it, which is not my preference. But I've seen this before from Lionel back in the early 2000's, when they produced the Blue Comet heavyweights and a few other heavyweight passenger sets.

The lighting is LED-based, and the cars also have the capacitor that allows lighting to stay on briefly after power is disrupted or shut down. And in the case of the latter, the lights fade off nicely within a few seconds.

Now the interior lights on these Pennsy's are somewhat bright -- but certainly nothing that's a show-stopper for me. I would certainly prefer if the lighting were more even throughout the car. Because as delivered, you can see 4 hot-spots from the LED bulbs. This is actually more evident in photos than in real-life, since camera sensors (as good as they are now) still don't come close to the dynamic range of lighting that our own eyes are capable of processing. So I didn't find the hot-spots as objectionable in real-life as they might seem in these quick-and-dirty iPhone photos.

2 of the 4 cars had 1 passenger each who didn't want to stay seated.  So I encountered a 50% hit rate of cars with passengers on the lose. At least it wasn't all 4 cars. And in the two cars where I encountered this, it was only one passenger per car -- not half a dozen or so -- that will need to be re-seated.  That will be a task for another day. But clearly, there's a pattern here that needs to be addressed at Lionel's factory... because nothing speaks to cheapness like unwanted rattling noises in an otherwise nicely detailed car.

Fortunately, I encountered no issues with wheels and trucks, which are die-cast sprung trucks, and nicely detailed. As I mentioned earlier, the olive green trucks add to the overall beautiful appearance of these Pennsy cars.

Unfortunately, one of the cars will be heading back for an exchange, because its coupler drops sufficiently low that it will uncouple the train... and potentially cause electrical issues. (See Photo3.) I already did a cursory investigation to see if I could fix the problem. But something is missing in the mechanism that's allowing the coupler bar to drop significantly low, and no other couplers on these cars exhibited that flaw. I could handle a slight mismatch in coupler height, but this one car has an unacceptable coupler that will only cause more trouble down the road. I'm just not gonna put up with sub-par products anymore, so hopefully the dealer still has another car to make the exchange a reality.

Aside from these issues, the cars are a nice addition to my passenger car roster. But as I've been saying more frequently, I'm glad I'm not depending on newly manufactured products going forward to build my model train roster. Aside from the Reading & Northern cars due to arrive next week, I only have two more passenger trains to keep an eye out for: MTH's Rocky Mountaineer and the remaining Lionel American Freedom Train cars.

Anyway, here are some very quick iPhone photos of the new Lionel Pennsylvania 18" Heavyweights. Toward the end of these photos, I've also included some photos of other illuminated passenger cars for comparison's sake regarding the intensity level of these Pennsy cars.

Enjoy!!!


*Photo1:* Under the layout lighting, this Pennsy color scheme really pops!









*Photo2:* A close-up of the details and colors that contribute to an eye-catching appearance.









*Photo3:* Sadly, one coupler sags well below where it should.









*Photo4:* The mint-green window tint isn't my favorite, but it's not a show-stopper either.









*Photo5:* The LED's in these cars do seem to run a bit bright... creating 4 hot-spots. But it's much more noticeable in photos than in real-life.









*Photo6:* The Pennsy RPO car doesn't have the green-tint windows. And unfortunately, the car's interior is absolutely barren -- even revealing some circuit boards and such -- making the car look cheaply made inside.  I purchased this car locally, and I'm thinking about returning it. But I certainly won't buy any other Lionel RPO's until Lionel addresses this issue. MTH's RPO cars are much nicer in this respect.









*Photo7:* Speaking of MTH, here's an MTH New York Central 17" passenger car that I'm using with my VisionLine Nigara. The interior lighting is pleasantly lit with a warm amber glow -- much more to my liking.









*Photo8:* Now here's an MTH full vista-dome car. It's the only style car where you can actually see the MTH LED locations being on the bright side because of the vista roof windows. Otherwise, MTH passenger car lighting is very even.









*Photo9:* Lionel's new 21" ABS Theatre Car in Norfolk Southern livery. Note the vanilla interior with no passengers makes for another stark -- albeit brightly lit -- interior. 









So in summary... and at least for now.... these new 18" heavyweight cars from Lionel rate a "B-" from me. The cars themselves are OK, but there's enough going on with problem couplers (not the first time) and loose passengers in the interiors to generate a less-than-perfect, first-impression. 

Look.... don't get me wrong. Things could have been MUCH worse after reading the earlier reviews of similar cars elsewhere. And I'm not suggesting those folks were wrong in their reviews either. There is just too much evidence in the way of factory sloppiness going on at Lionel these days. And some of us are more unlucky than others in terms of which products we actually receive. 

So while I'm OK with these Pennsy cars, I'm hoping that the arrival of the Reading & Northern cars in a few days might push my overall rating of Lionel's new heavyweights up to a B+ or even an A-. I'd need 8 near-perfect passenger cars to get us into "A" territory at this point.  Since I'm a realist at heart, a solid "B" is more likely. 

David


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

David, except for the interiors they are beautiful cars. Enjoy those you keep. 

On the Theater car have you checked yet how difficult it will be to remove the shell to add people?


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Good looking passenger cars from both importers. You would think that Lionel would have corrected the drooping couplers by now. Strange that Lionel would not have installed a row of mail sorting bins and maybe a couple clerks in the RPO car.

 Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Thank you for that very through and objective review. They are attractive cars.

Personally, I hate those green windows. I had the Crescent set years ago and replaced them with clear. If you replace them with clear, the lights look a lot brighter then and you may want to put a resistor in to reduce the voltage to the LEDs slightly and dim them just a bit.

Also, I would just fix the coupler rather than returning it. Seems less work overall. I've had to adjust several Lionel in the last few years.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

The RPO car is old Weaver. Now having checked out some made by Weaver Lionel pretty much copied them and then doubled the price.
Beth from Public Delivery Track just posted that she had dug out a lot of items from her warehouse and put on her website.
If you search on RPO you will find them from all manufacturers including Weaver, Lionel, and GGD as well as Atlas Trainman and MTH. The Weaver by Lionel is half again as much as the original Weaver and at least equal to GGD in price. MTH is the bargain there with lower prices and better detail and its usual solid construction. 
IMO today MTH leads the pack for 18" Heavyweights.

Edit, just checked PDT and it appears she has sold off a lot of inventory already and adjusted prices to reflect demand.
Pete


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> ....
> 
> Also, I would just fix the coupler rather than returning it. Seems less work overall. I've had to adjust several Lionel in the last few years.


Lee, I'm not opposed to fixing things. Lord knows I've used enough of those small plastic wire ties to keep recent Lionel couplers on the 21" ABS cars from opening at inopportune times while running trains and leaving cars stranded on tracks. However this particular coupler bar/arm seems to drop too low as a matter of normal course. Even if I prop it up, it just drops back down again. I guess I don't know enough about the entire mechanism to see (1) why it's even happening, and (2) what can be done to correct it.

I hate sending stuff back, but accepting a flawed product just lets the importer/manufacturer off the hook, which I'm not doing in 2019. I'll give it another once-over to see what's really going on. I'm just not in the mood of spending good money on "kits" that are supposed to be finished products.

David

P.S. BTW, speaking of "kits", I forgot to mention in my original post that the rubber diaphragms do NOT come directly attached on these cars. Rather they are included inside the product box in two plastic bags -- except for the observation cars which only need one. Why these are not attached to the car directly at the factory is beyond me, since I can't imagine why anyone would want to run without them.  Admittedly, it's not the worst thing in the world, but I can only surmise it's either another bean-counter's cost-cutting measure or factory short-cut that's becoming part of the norm in terms of Lionel's new venture into passenger car production. It's quite a shame when you think about it... that just a few years ago, Lionel heavyweights and aluminum passenger cars were a great product for the money. Now we're paying premium prices with ever-increasing shortcuts everywhere we look.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2019)

Very objective review of these passenger cars. Excellent job.

The problem with the coupler should have been caught at the factory. Obviously, This is yet another failure. There is no excuse for this.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Lionel has always left the diaphrams off as has K-Line. That way they don't get distorted if they are not packed correctly. MTH has able to get away with attached diaphrams as theirs are thicker but less flexible. The Lionel diaphrams are easy to attach and they also work on the K-Line heavyweights. K-Line diaphrams don't hold up well with age.

Pete


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## Chugman (Jun 17, 2015)

David, thanks for the great review. From your pictures the cars have a very nice presence with the color accents making it really stand out. It is such a shame that so many of the manufacturers can't get the couplers right. It obviously is a basic element to operations and appearances.

Art


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Norton said:


> Lionel has always left the diaphrams off as has K-Line. That way they don't get distorted if they are not packed correctly. MTH has able to get away with attached diaphrams as theirs are thicker but less flexible. The Lionel diaphrams are easy to attach and they also work on the K-Line heavyweights. K-Line diaphrams don't hold up well with age.
> 
> Pete


Pete, I can see it both ways. On one of the UP Challenger cars I purchased (just a 2-pack), one of the rubber diaphragms that were already attached at the factory was a bit distorted due to incorrect packaging. I do recall a few K-Line sets years ago where the diaphragms were packaged separately. But for some reason, I always thought Lionel and MTH cars came with the diaphragms already attached. But don't quote me on that. 

David


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Chugman said:


> .... It is such a shame that so many of the manufacturers can't get the couplers right. It obviously is a basic element to operations and appearances.
> 
> ...


Exactly, Art. "Fixing" problem couplers that open unexpectedly with the wire ties essentially makes them non-operating in terms of switching operations. The passenger cars remain coupled as a train, which is how I usually run them. But from a pure operations perspective, it then rules out assembling a train via locomotive switching maneuvers. It's a completely unacceptable solution for freight cars in that regard.

In this case though, even the wire ties don't address the sagging coupler. I can live with minor discrepancies in coupler heights. But this essentially renders the coupler useless. So we shall see..... 

David


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Hi DAVID,
Sorry to here the problems you had with the couplers. I just got my R&N 18 inchers from RO. I have them in the MTH F3s Video. Mine came from RO and all was good on arrival. I was even a bit impressed that there were people in them. I have them being pull by the the F3s and at first I hated the pinkish color in them but while running them last night they started to grow on me. I will purchase the other 4 cars in the future and run them with my R&N 425 in both the Lionel and MTH. One thing that really bugged me was the drumbhead in the back, Lionel didn't light this. That was a real downer for me.:smilie_daumenneg:


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

George, I'm glad you encountered no problems with the 4 RBM&N cars you purchased. I was not as lucky with the 8 cars I just received.  And that's the big problem. There is just no consistency with Lionel products in this latest batch of product coming out of these Chinese factories in late 2018.

Since I started this thread, I'm re-posting something I already posted to Art's "Tired of the Negativity" thread. It deserves to be here simply as a follow-up to my initial review of the Pennsy heavyweight cars.

I'll warn folks now... the RBM&N commentary is not pretty. So if you're tired of reading about Lionel problems, then just skip this post. 

*As of late Tuesday evening, I've opened FOUR 2-packs of Lionel Reading Blue Mountain & Northern 18" heavyweight passenger cars that arrived late tonight. And between paint smudges on the car bodies and loose journals popping off the wheels/trucks as soon as I removed several cars from their clam-shell packaging, I now have 40 pounds of passenger train JUNK heading back to Charles Ro as soon as I call them tomorrow morning (Wednesday). Thankfully I didn't tossed the shipping box into the garbage yet (which is where the passenger cars belong)*.

And we wonder why Lionel reps aren't showing up at train shows??? I understand COMPLETELY why!!!

I was "fairly lucky" with the Pennsy heavyweight cars I ordered ala carte. Of the 4 individual cars, only 1 needs to go back for a problem with its coupler. But these RBM&N are sold as 2-packs, and I have issues with enough of the cars before I even put them on the tracks that the entire lot of them is going back to the dealer. This sounds like an instant replay of the same crap folks reported with the Scale Polar Express cars that we heard so much rumbling about in between Christmas and New Years.

Let's be R-E-A-L clear about this BS, folks. Lionel has M-A-J-O-R quality problems that need to be fixed NOW if they expect its most loyal enthusiasts to even think about purchasing more product. *As far as I'm concerned, I'm now at the point where anything I purchase from Lionel (which thankfully doesn't need to be much anymore) will be inspected at a local dealer before it comes home with me. No more pre-orders, and no more mail-orders unless the dealer inspects every item before it's shipped!!!*

If folks are tired of hearing poor product reviews, please don't hint that members here are harping on negativity when we've paid good $$$ for products plagued with problems right out of the box. We're reporting REAL observations of what we're experiencing. The problem is not with the reviewers -- it's with the products and the supply chain.

Sorry if this is coming across harshly, Art. But please appreciate I'm ticked off royally right now, since the latest invoice for this JUNK is to the tune of nearly $1,200. And I'll be very happy when that's credited back to my charge card later this week! I would rather have had a nice passenger train to go along with a terrific-sounding RBM&N #425 Pacific steamer, but that's not gonna happen this time. I don't even wanna think about exchanging this crap for another set of Lionel cars. The experience is already ruined, and I'm in the process of securing an MTH set first thing in the morning. The set will be a smaller number of cars, but I'm OK with that if the quality is improved -- which I suspect it should be since I've had reasonably good luck with prior MTH passenger car purchases. They're a "known entity" (in a pleasant way), and they won't have mint green windows either.  

I just thought this time I'd go with a complete Lionel steamer and passenger set like I had done years ago. But it wasn't meant to be.

David


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Rocky Mountaineer said:


> Pete, I can see it both ways. On one of the UP Challenger cars I purchased (just a 2-pack), one of the rubber diaphragms that were already attached at the factory was a bit distorted due to incorrect packaging. I do recall a few K-Line sets years ago where the diaphragms were packaged separately. But for some reason, I always thought Lionel and MTH cars came with the diaphragms already attached. But don't quote me on that.
> 
> David


I should have qualified that by saying heavyweight cars come with the diaphrams off. The 18" streamline cars did come with diaphrams attached. Many like the ESE and SP steamliners had full width diaphrams which is correct. Something only Lionel and 3rd Rail provided.

Pete


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Just saw. Interesting. At least, for you, it wasn’t Christmas Day.

I figured percentages on my cars when someone had a lot to say about general comments. How did you fare?

4 Pa cars, two with a rolling passenger and one a bad coupler. You plan to send only one back. By your scale, 25% failure; I would call it 50%.

One RPO car that, let’s call it what it is, a piece of barely digestable junk where the windows need more tinting to hide the blank inside. Call it a success.

Then the new batch. Eight cars and a total failure. That is 0% success.

Thirteen cars, nine returned gives a failure rate of .69230769.

The success rate is .30769231.

And people don’t like to hear the facts? I don’t either. Let’s be politically correct and thank Lionel for their gross incompetence and whitewash things so they don’t look like who they are.

David I sorry for your disappointment. Someone should lose their job.

And Lee’s H-10 didn’t wake up this morning. Egads! Heck, he bought MTH and couldn’t help himself when he read about good H-10s so he fell for it. Lemonel got him again.

This is one messed up hobby.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2019)

*"And people don’t like to hear the facts? I don’t either. Let’s be politically correct and thank Lionel for their gross incompetence and whitewash things so they don’t look like who they are."
*

Bill, you are so correct. Telling it as it is *FACTUALLY* may not always be POSITIVE, but it is the truth. I would far rather deal with the truth than be fed a "feel good" line of BS.

I don't know about you, but I am rather tired of the politically correctness that we have to deal with in many places today. Give me a break, tell it as it is.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Bill Webb said:


> ....
> 
> Then the new batch. Eight cars and a total failure. That is 0% success.
> 
> ....


Bill, yes... the recent batch of Lionel 18" heavyweight cars is a risky proposition to say the least... no doubt about it.

Now to be completely fair... not ALL 8 of the RBM&N cars were bad. HOWEVER, they were packaged as 2-packs, and ALL 4 of the two-packs had something wrong with one of the cars. So unless dealers wanna start breaking up their 2-packs to ship good cars to folks who return one of the cars, I suppose that's possible. But I'm sure that generates a ton of work on the dealer's end. It's really a mess.

I know for a matter of fact that a couple of local dealers here in southeastern PA went through exactly that process with the UP Excursion cars earlier in 2018. After the initial wave of complaints, they were forced to inspect individual cars in the 4-pack and 2-pack offerings, and re-package cars to get satisfactory product out to their buyers. 

Nicholas Smith Trains was one of the dealers who did that, and then they later sold some of the good "leftover" UP Excursion Cars ala-carte in their individual clam-shell packaging. That's how I grabbed the UP Generator Car without actually buying the entire 4-pack.

Now getting back to the Lionel RBM&N heavyweights.... it's a sad situation all around. I really tried to keep a couple of cars -- even when I started seeing things go South. But every time I opened another 2-pack, there was something wrong with ONE of the cars... at which point I finally said, "Forgettaboutit". Earlier on Wednesday, I got the go-ahead from Charlie Ro to ship all four 2-packs back for credit. And one of the Pennsy's is going back for an exchange. That's the one whose coupler was sagging almost to the center rail.

I can't say that the entire batch of these heavyweights is bad. But I'd certainly caution anybody who's interested in them to buy locally OR ensure a dealer you trust will inspect them carefully before shipping them out to you.

Today, I visited Nicholas Smith Trains and purchased several of their MTH RBM&N heavyweights, and it was a pleasure opening products that were exactly what I expected they'd be... which they really should be since this stuff is not new tooling. Aside from the newer LED lighting, we're not re-inventing the wheel with these cars. And that's what surprises me about Lionel delivering such poor quality passenger cars lately.

The trick with MTH products however is that MTH makes VERY FEW "extra's" -- perhaps just enough to fill out a production minimum. These MTH RBM&N Madison-style cars were catalog'd in 2018 Volume 1, delivered in Sept/Oct 2018, and they're already sold out. So I had to really hunt down what I needed -- and even then, I didn't find an observation car. But that's OK, because I'll be creating my own custom RBM&N "excursion" train. 

MrMuffin's Trains had one last MTH Premier RBM&N RPO car. And Nicholas Smith Trains had 2 MTH Premier Pullman coaches and 3 MTH Premier full vista dome cars. I'll round out the train with the Lionel RBM&N full dome StationSounds car for nice effects, and the Lionel NS Theatre car will serve as the last car in the train. The Lionel cars are not an exact match-up of color with the MTH cars, but I'm OK with that. Heck, even Lionel's cars don't match up completely, since the RBM&N heavyweights have the green-tint windows and the RBM&N StationSounds car has regular windows.  Can't wait to hear THAT explanation from Lionel.  I'm not a fan of the green-tint windows and MUCH prefer a warm amber glow to my passenger cars traveling under simulated nighttime lighting. I can live with one or two passenger trains with the green-tint windows. But honestly, I think it was a poor choice for Lionel to do this latest batch of heavyweights with green-tint windows for all liveries. They should know their market better.

Bottom line: expect to see TONS of these heavyweight cars refurbished at Lionel's NC warehouse sale later this year. But I'd still proceed with caution. 

Anyway, that should do it for now... until Atlas-O delivers their Trainman RBM&N cars due out in mid-2019. In one sense, it's fun assembling a mix of car offerings. But there's a downside too. When you're looking to assemble these trains AFTER delivery, you're often forced to hunt around for various cars -- which can be very time-consuming. OTOH, pre-ordering has become quite the gamble as we've seen (once again) with Lionel's latest batch of passenger car offerings. I don't have that reluctance with MTH passenger cars, so pre-ordering a full complement of their Rocky Mountaineer passenger cars was a no-brainer for me. But Lionel has lost that degree of freedom with me now, and it will take a long time to re-build pre-order confidence with Lionel again -- certainly not with this crew at the helm. Thankfully, I don't have my eyes set on too many more roster additions these days -- just some specialty items. 

So yes... even though this hobby is experiencing the best of times in some regards, it's also seeing the worst of times in other respects. 

David


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Passenger Train Collector said:


> *... Telling it as it is FACTUALLY may not always be POSITIVE, but it is the truth. I would far rather deal with the truth than be fed a "feel good" line of BS.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I am rather tired of the politically correctness that we have to deal with in many places today. Give me a break, tell it as it is.*


*

Brian, that's EXACTLY my philosophy. And that's why I never understood the fanboy attitude of some folks who labeled these candid but honest reviews as "complaining" or "being negative". Only in this hobby would folks think like that due to their blind loyalties. In just about every other part of our lives, the common sense factor would kick in rather quickly -- especially when we're spending premium dollars on items.

This "Well, let's deliver anything to Mikey, he'll take it anyway" attitude has gotta stop. I don't WANT to send product back, but it's the RIGHT thing to do when it falls so short of its mark. At a certain threshold, we get tired of fixing stuff that should work correctly right out of the box.

If we're gonna pay premium prices, we deserve a premium experience. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

David*


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

DAVID,
Again sorry for the debacle Lionel had caused you. Yes I was fortunate to get a good set from Lionel. I have a six car set along with the full Vista dome car. I had one loose journal found in the last car that I opened up. Everything else was very good shape. Like I said before the biggest carp I can give about these cars were that there was no lighting on the dumbhead at the end of the car. Along with no passengers in the 21 inch Vista dome car. 
I did also purchase the full MTH set when they came out in October. Minus the full dome vista car that I still cannot find. I like the MTH cars but they seem just a bit off color. It would have been nice if the two colors from Lionel and MTH were mixed, probably would have made it look right? I am thinking of trying to find the MTH observation car and taking the dumhead out and attaching it to the Lionel car. 
I too jumped right on the wagon with you and purchased the Rocky Mountaineer from Patricks trains when it came out. I think I got both engines and an 8 car consist. Hope these are a real hit, and no problems. Keep your fingers crossed.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

laz57 said:


> .... Like I said before the biggest carp I can give about these cars were that there was no lighting on the dumbhead at the end of the car. Along with no passengers in the 21 inch Vista dome car.
> 
> I did also purchase the full MTH set when they came out in October. Minus the full dome vista car that I still cannot find. I like the MTH cars but they seem just a bit off color. It would have been nice if the two colors from Lionel and MTH were mixed, probably would have made it look right? ...


George,

As far as I'm concerned, the Lionel spiel about not populating the cars with people was all a bunch of malarkey. Just another cost-cutting measure on Lionel's end so folks would need to spend $$$ and time on a DIY project -- which might have been OK with the first batch of Lionel's 21" ABS cars. But then Lionel added insult to injury when the 2nd and 3rd batch of those cars were a PITA to disassemble without damaging parts of the car bodies or underframes. 

As for the MTH vs. Lionel colors. Neither company cares what the other does in terms of color choices. They're very independent in that regard -- barely even acknowledging what the other does. And in this case, I'm OK with the slight mismatch, because it's not like we're assembling a California Zephyr or a North Coast Limited here.  

After enjoying Lionel's Penn Central passenger train which was quite the mix of cars from different time periods, I've found these mixed trains to be A-OK in my book. Although I'll admit sometimes it's just nice to see a sleek passenger train in all its glory from front to back with a uniform color-scheme. But I was trying to model a small local excursion train here with the RBM&N, so the mixed colors were OK (for me).

David


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

David a major concern that we have is how the cars will hold up long term once they are fixed. We expect Lionel rolling stock to last for ten years or more if taken care of. Broken out of the box leads us to think that long-term might be six months or less.

Nobody ever mentions this concern. Electronics are bad enough but when things beyond them are also questionable it looks like a bad deal to me. What do you think?

Of course, at our age, how long do we think we have left? And do we really think the grandchildren might want any of “Those old trains?”


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Bill Webb said:


> David a major concern that we have is how the cars will hold up long term once they are fixed. We expect Lionel rolling stock to last for ten years or more if taken care of. Broken out of the box leads us to think that long-term might be six months or less.
> 
> Nobody ever mentions this concern. ...


Bill, I hear ya. Folks may not wanna believe this, but this morning I was packing up the one Pennsy heavyweight that had the problem coupler that sagged to low toward the center rail. Well, as I was re-packing the car into the clam shell, the entire truck with the problem coupler fell off the car frame completely.  Only the wires to the pick-up roller are keeping the truck attached to the frame now. But it's packed and on its way back to Charlie Ro for an exchange.

Sadly, this is reminiscent of the problems some folks encountered with the UP Excursion cars earlier in 2018. And as I recall, the problem was with the poorly designed c-clips or e-clips used to help secure the trucks to the car underbody frame. So even though Lionel knew those clips were just marginally holding things together, they apparently still used them with these heavyweight cars.  

Once again, this isn't rocket science. What's SO disappointing about this is these newer c-clips or e-clips were changed out from better ones used on passenger cars manufactured years ago. They had something that worked fine for MANY products, and they've gone to something more prone to cause problems. So that's something to watch out for with any of these new Lionel passenger cars. It seems like Lionel just doesn't care anymore with respect to quality components in their products.

What's really ironic about the timing of the end-of-year products having so many issues??? Lionel has a catalog reportedly due out in 2 weeks, and I'm not even interested to see what's in it. Anybody else feeling that way too? They've really dug themselves into quite a hole right now. 

David


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

David I read that Home Depot had c-clips that worked a year or more ago. Several people were routinely changing them when they got a new car.

A year later and we find that Lionel is still using the same junk that they know is inferior. But I am sure that it is within their tolerances, just not the customer’s.

New catalog day used to be exciting. A roll of toilet paper would be more useful today. Heck, it could be used to repair engines based on what Lee found in his H-10.


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

*Lionel New Heavyweight Passenger Cars Update...*

Just wanted to follow-up here to let everyone know that Charlie Ro replaced my Pennsylvania "Central Park" passenger car that had the faulty coupler drooping toward the center rail. That's the same car whose truck fell off the underbody frame when I was repacking the car for shipment back to Charlie. 

It's great to have a dealer that takes care of you no questions asked. They just stand behind their customers whenever they can.

The RBM&N cars were a different story. While Charlie was willing to replace all of them, I had already lost interest in them after so many of them had issues. I'm also not a fan of Lionel's choice of green lighting inside these heavyweight cars. I can live with it in the Pennsy set, 'cause it blends well with the green decor. But I won't buy another set of Lionel heavyweights if the lighting isn't a warmer, more standard color.

There's a ton more heavyweight passenger cars just catalog'd in Lionel's 2019 Volume 1 catalog. So hopefully Lionel can get ahead of the curve with their Chinese passenger car factory, and deliver some quality passenger cars again. Otherwise, there's a bunch of passenger car stuff in the new catalog that I wouldn't touch with a 20-foot pole. 

David


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## empire builder (Apr 12, 2014)

seeing I have never seen anything Pennsylvania passenger cars or otherwise were the trucks and other parts of lower cars a green color or at least that is what I think i'm seeing in photos Rocky Mountianeer posted?


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## Big Jim (Nov 17, 2015)

Charles Ro took my Polar Express cars back, repaired the trucks and sent them back within a week. Thank you C.Ro!


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

empire builder said:


> seeing I have never seen anything Pennsylvania passenger cars or otherwise were the trucks and other parts of lower cars a green color or at least that is what I think i'm seeing in photos Rocky Mountianeer posted?


EB, I wasn't all that concerned whether the olive green trucks were prototypical or not. I just liked the way they looked with the rest of the color scheme. Makes for a bit of an eye-catcher. I can't recall specifics, but I've seen MTH offer something similar for some Pennsy rolling stock years ago.

David


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## Rocky Mountaineer (Sep 19, 2015)

Big Jim said:


> Charles Ro took my Polar Express cars back, repaired the trucks and sent them back within a week. Thank you C.Ro!


Hmmmm.... sounds like Charlie & Co. are a bit busy fixing or replacing heavyweight passenger cars. They replaced a Pennsy heavyweight for me, and they issued a refund for my 8 RBM&N heavyweights. I was so disappointed with what Lionel delivered, I opted to make a RBM&N train with MTH and Atlas-O rolling stock instead. Always nice to have alternatives in play. 

I just hope Lionel can get a factory to make all the heavyweights they catalog'd in 2019 Volume 1 without the problems this last batch experienced.  There's a TON of heavyweight passenger cars in this new catalog! And after what I experienced recently, I wouldn't recommend buying any of those sight unseen again.  Buy locally and examine what you take home. Also beforehand, check whether they'll come with green-tint windows or clear windows. My preference for passenger cars is clear windows with a warm-amber LEDs inside the cars. I wonder if Lionel will even know the answer to this question -- they may need to wait until the finished product arrives Stateside in NC!!!  

David


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