# Value of "O" Gauge



## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

I've been selling some of my Lionel trains along with a share of my LGB stuff on Evilbay over the past six months. Business was rather brisk early on and well into the Summer. Of late, there has been hardly any bites. I presumed that after Labor Day things would start to pick up, but it has been a slow rebound. 

I know MPC prices are in the tank and it seems as though post-war is also. Just some observations I wanted to share.


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## Maxum (Apr 10, 2017)

It seems to me since MTH announced they were closing up shop that many people have been ratcheting up the price of O gauge stuff, especially MTH products. I recently saw a used Proto 2 steamer for sale on Ebay with a price over it's MSRP from 15 years ago. Within the last year I bought the same model in nearly new condition at a show for half that price.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

You are reaching the wrong person here to comment. I hate sellers that ask full MSRP for 20 year old items. Or more. If the item is rare I understand. I chased a Rock Island U30C locomotive, believe it was MTH but may have been Lionel up into the $500's and I believe it sold for $560 or so, BUT it's the only one I have seen in 5 or more years of being on evilbay. 

I hate that ebay is more of a marketplace and not an auction site. If sellers were forced to start bidding at a modest level and let the marketplace decide, that would result in fewer auctions or offerings as the sellers would decide they don't want to take less than a nice "profit" on their items. 

Right now there is an MTH Premier E8 A-B-A set Rock Island Rocket that the seller put on at 99 cents (!) and it's already up to $176. That's a true auction and in reality, sellers may jump in at the last minute and bid more aggresively. Meanwhile there is the same ABA set by a different seller listed at $549 for the last 3 months. ebay says that's fine, no fees, no penalty to the seller. There is one so called auction place from Pennsylvania that lists all rolling stock at $99 take it or leave it and told me "bye bye moron" when I referenced the MSRP was $59 on an item. A 40% increase "just because"?? 

I get it there are those that will say just don't bother looking, move on. But it's already an expensive hobby. How can any 32 year old dad of 2-3 kids start a layout in the basement, and those are who the hobby needs to sustain any momentum. 

So to answer your question I think the issue is more people are back to work and there are less eyes in front of the computer to bid. I think there is also a surplus of some O Scale stuff and people are buttoning down for the holidays and post election economy. I went nuts and spent as much as $1000 a week for several weeks and on May 1 I moved into a new home and have not even started on the layout room - which needs new windows and floor paint before setting up the layout. Why keep adding items when you have no layout? 

I would put some items on ebay myself including my O27 stuff I am just going to toss, but it's a fair amount of work to box up, send, etc.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a ton of stuff I'd like to sell, but I just can't find the time to do all the prep and packing, so it stays packed away in boxes...


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

John, I believe you when you say a ton, because it probably really is just that. Would it be cheaper by the "long ton"? 😁😁😁😁


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It would be a bargain by any unit of measure.


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## BobS (Jun 18, 2015)

Methinks that just about everyone in our hobby born in the middle of the 20th century are in the same boat. And, the boat is overloaded with toy trains and stuff of the ilk.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

The point Maxum made happens in all businesses, it seems. Toll Brothers built a 55 & Older community in Dresher, Pa. The homes were selling for about $3-400,000.00. They sold so many the first weekend that sales were open to the public, that on Monday they raised the prices by $100,000.00 ! Just because they could. 

I wasn't in to Lionel trains in 1969, so cannot comment on what the prices were. I have a very good suspicion that you could probably get them for pennies on the dollar. So why is it that MTH is selling for such high prices ? 

Bryan mentioned Ebay's morphing into a marketplace instead of an auction. I don't know if his theory about letting the market dictate the price is correct. I have a feeling that prices would still climb through the clouds. 

And to Gunrunner John, Just do it John.....🤣


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

BobS said:


> Methinks that just about everyone in our hobby born in the middle of the 20th century are in the same boat. And, the boat is overloaded with toy trains and stuff of the ilk.



True and we of a certain age ain't getting' any younger. Now that I can afford to buy more, I want less. In the '70s when I couldn't afford much, I wanted it all.....LOL


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

I've been selling/buying on e-bay since 1998. I used to buy/sell through TCA/LCCA, but very little, and now those ads have essentially dried up, so I don't even bother looking. I've also had some bad experiences selling through those ads, so I just stopped listing anything.

Regarding auction vs. Buy It Now on e-bay, a number of years ago I read that e-bay was trying to move toward the "marketplace" model to compete with Amazon. E-bay was trying to attract people who wanted to "shop" and just buy what they wanted, rather than have to wait through an auction only to be outbid. So, for a few years at least I noticed a push to sell in the Buy It Now format. I think that has subsided a bit, because a lot of items have ridiculous prices, as has been pointed out, and e-bay does not make any money unless items sell. Years back there was a listing fee and a final value fee. The listing fee was based on listed price, so it discouraged putting things on at unrealistic prices. However, in the push to Buy It Now, the listing fee was dropped (if you stay under a certain number of listings per month), and the final value fee was increased. Also, Buy It Now listings used to expire after 30 days, now they are listed indefinitely. Again, encouraging people to just list items at any price they want. For the seller it costs nothing but time to list the item.

My long term view of postwar Lionel prices is they climbed unrealistically during the 1990s. Dropped back after 9/11, but then climbed back up until the financial crisis of 2008. Sell prices have been falling since then. Just look at an old price guide vs. current, and you might be amazed at the difference. However, I do feel that in the past several years prices stabilized. I think prices increased in the pandemic, partly because there is no where else to buy/sell. No shows, no swap meets. I have not noticed lower activity right now, but I'm also not selling much, so can't tell. However, keep in mind an auction is a "forced sale." The item is only listed for days, and the auction has a final end time. Thus, auction sell prices will typically be less than Buy It Now. I only sell at auction items that either I really want to get rid of and don't care what I get for it, or items that are truly scarce, and I don't know the true market value. The former items usually go for a low price, and the latter usually exceed my expectations. I always select the max time for an auction (9 days) rather than the default 7 days to get the most exposure I can.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

KBeyer said:


> I've been selling/buying on e-bay since 1998. I used to buy/sell through TCA/LCCA, but very little, and now those ads have essentially dried up, so I don't even bother looking. I've also had some bad experiences selling through those ads, so I just stopped listing anything.
> 
> Regarding auction vs. Buy It Now on e-bay, a number of years ago I read that e-bay was trying to move toward the "marketplace" model to compete with Amazon. E-bay was trying to attract people who wanted to "shop" and just buy what they wanted, rather than have to wait through an auction only to be outbid. So, for a few years at least I noticed a push to sell in the Buy It Now format. I think that has subsided a bit, because a lot of items have ridiculous prices, as has been pointed out, and e-bay does not make any money unless items sell. Years back there was a listing fee and a final value fee. The listing fee was based on listed price, so it discouraged putting things on at unrealistic prices. However, in the push to Buy It Now, the listing fee was dropped (if you stay under a certain number of listings per month), and the final value fee was increased. Also, Buy It Now listings used to expire after 30 days, now they are listed indefinitely. Again, encouraging people to just list items at any price they want. For the seller it costs nothing but time to list the item.
> 
> My long term view of postwar Lionel prices is they climbed unrealistically during the 1990s. Dropped back after 9/11, but then climbed back up until the financial crisis of 2008. Sell prices have been falling since then. Just look at an old price guide vs. current, and you might be amazed at the difference. However, I do feel that in the past several years prices stabilized. I think prices increased in the pandemic, partly because there is no where else to buy/sell. No shows, no swap meets. I have not noticed lower activity right now, but I'm also not selling much, so can't tell. However, keep in mind an auction is a "forced sale." The item is only listed for days, and the auction has a final end time. Thus, auction sell prices will typically be less than Buy It Now. I only sell at auction items that either I really want to get rid of and don't care what I get for it, or items that are truly scarce, and I don't know the true market value. The former items usually go for a low price, and the latter usually exceed my expectations. I always select the max time for an auction (9 days) rather than the default 7 days to get the most exposure I can.



*When I receive the TCA bulletin, most of it is occupied by advertising. I often glance at the buy, sell, trade pages, toward the back and laugh. Does anyone actually buy or sell anything through those ads ? *


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Madman said:


> True and we of a certain age ain't getting' any younger. Now that I can afford to buy more, I want less. In the '70s when I couldn't afford much, I wanted it all.....LOL


Boy, isn’t that the truth! I did the same thing, but now, in my old(er) age, I am really picky about what I buy....it has to catch my eye, or be something that I have always wanted.....

And I think the main reason is I now have so much of what I wanted, so to just buy stuff willy-nilly isn’t going to happen anymore.....


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

The auction I mentioned ended with a price of $260 plus shipping. This was an MTH Premier ABA Rock Island E8 set without the box (I asked) and started at .99 cents. This is what ebay should be. Run it 7 days, 9 days or 2 weeks, but I hate the Buy It Now or listed price which is higher than I feel I want to pay. 

There are 2 other Buy It Now "auctions" (LOL) featuring the same set of locomotives each for Buy It Now of $549.99 for several weeks. No buyers, not even me. I'd love to have that set, but I want to feel I got it at a good price. 

The new A-A E6 set that Lionel has in their catalog I can get for $899 either from Mr Muffins or my local hobby store. Buying new supports the LHS and Lionel and you get new.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

I always list my Buy It Now items with "or Best Offer." That way people can feel free to offer what they are willing to pay. Then I can choose to take it or counter.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

I don't understand the angst about high priced BIN items. The seller knows what they want for the item and they have the option to wait for that price. Just check order your search results ascending by price and you can ignore them.

As for the price of admission to the hobby, if you're buying new it's not news that this hobby is difficult for anyone not at least solidly middle class and the true 1/48 O "scale" end of the hobby requires a very significant investment.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Spoken like a true seller.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Bryan Moran said:


> Spoken like a true seller.


Quite the opposite my friend. I'm a barrel scraping, bottom feeding, bargain railroader.

I'm just realistic about the fact that budget railroading requires buying used, hunting hard and making compromises. 

The railroader on a tight budget will likely be much better served by choosing HO or 0-27, buying used and being content with the fact that there is alot of specific rolling stock you will have to DIY mod, accept "almost" or do without.

I do trade and sell some but its mostly just min-to-low end excess from my own collection or lot purchases.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Quite the lively and instructive thread! I, like Ellif claims, am a "bottom feeder" when it comes to items and pricing and I'm an avowed postwar guy - partly because that's what was everywhere when I was a kid, but also because that stuff is so durable and fixable. Compared to modern electronics and their "pull" on moon and railroader tides, they seem antiquated and a tad unworthy, especially if you have a lot of cash available to whet your appetite. 
A quote from Ellif: "As for the price of admission to the hobby, if you're buying new it's not news that this hobby is difficult for anyone not at least solidly middle class and the true 1/48 O "scale" end of the hobby requires a very significant investment." Okay? True. There are people like me at one end (the lower one) of the hobby who love it just as much, maybe more, than some guys with more money than time or willingness to develop the hobby. They buy just to watch stuff run and that's enough for them.
So, HERE'S my point: With world economies in a current slide and way too many older people (like us) in the U.S., especially, dying due to Covid, if not old age and pneumonia, there WON'T be well-heeled younger people in numbers to move into and enjoy our hobby. Also, they weren't around when railroads were not utilitarian in design and look. Even for guys at the top end of the hobby, they're interested mostly in trains that look fantastic. Sorry, but snout-nosed diesels that could be pulling coal out of Moldovia are not going to attract many new people. 
The days of model railroading aren't going away, but they're getting farther away from the people most of us would like to see attracted, as we once were and probably still are, to the fun and enterprise of building a model railroad. Just watch the eyes of kids light up when they see a train going around and around. It's still there...


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Nice picture ish!


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

@camelshmael2, I agree with your sentiments. I feel I have a very nice postwar collection, but I received my uncle's 1954 Lackawanna FM set when I was around 12 years old in the late '70s. That got me started on postwar trains vs. anything modern. At that time current Lionel production was so cheaply made, it just paled in comparison to postwar Lionel. I built a layout and did some small time collecting through my high school years before boxing everything up. Fortunately, my parents wouldn't let me sell my trains in college or grad school, they just held on to them. So, once I got a real job, then a house, one of the first things I did was build a layout and start collecting/operating again. I acquired the vast majority of my collection from the mid 90s through the mid-2000s. Those times were the high end of postwar prices, but there was also a lot of supply. I never came home empty handed from a swap meet! Some of the current Lionel offerings were interesting at that time, but nothing to make me jump in. The few items I picked up I eventually sold. Fast forward to now, and prices for common postwar cars/engines have hit their bottom level, and it is really easy to put together a postwar layout with no-nonsense trains that run well. The electronics are neat, but inevitably something goes wrong. In addition, prices on everything but starter sets are so sky high, how could the average person get started? I think the price and electronics are just too intimidating for the average person.

One thing that baffles me, in the 90s postwar prices were high and rising, and there was a lot of supply. Now, prices are low, and I just don't see a lot of quality stuff for sale. So, supply/demand is not working here. Postwar Lionel prices have been on a slide for a decade, so I find it hard to believe anyone is sitting on stuff waiting for higher prices before selling.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

KBeyer said:


> @camelshmael2, I agree with your sentiments. I feel I have a very nice postwar collection, but I received my uncle's 1954 Lackawanna FM set when I was around 12 years old in the late '70s. That got me started on postwar trains vs. anything modern. At that time current Lionel production was so cheaply made, it just paled in comparison to postwar Lionel. I built a layout and did some small time collecting through my high school years before boxing everything up. Fortunately, my parents wouldn't let me sell my trains in college or grad school, they just held on to them. So, once I got a real job, then a house, one of the first things I did was build a layout and start collecting/operating again. I acquired the vast majority of my collection from the mid 90s through the mid-2000s. Those times were the high end of postwar prices, but there was also a lot of supply. I never came home empty handed from a swap meet! Some of the current Lionel offerings were interesting at that time, but nothing to make me jump in. The few items I picked up I eventually sold. Fast forward to now, and prices for common postwar cars/engines have hit their bottom level, and it is really easy to put together a postwar layout with no-nonsense trains that run well. The electronics are neat, but inevitably something goes wrong. In addition, prices on everything but starter sets are so sky high, how could the average person get started? I think the price and electronics are just too intimidating for the average person.
> 
> One thing that baffles me, in the 90s postwar prices were high and rising, and there was a lot of supply. Now, prices are low, and I just don't see a lot of quality stuff for sale. So, supply/demand is not working here. Postwar Lionel prices have been on a slide for a decade, so I find it hard to believe anyone is sitting on stuff waiting for higher prices before selling.



How true. Post-war stuff certainly is not nearly as plentiful as it was twenty-five years ago. But the prices are low as you pointed out. I agree that is certainly is hard to believe that those collectors are holding onto post-war trains hoping the prices will rise. I have a few items listed on Evilbay. Nothing out of the ordinary and nothing with modern electronics. They've been moving very slowly, even after I discounted the prices. One item, a post-war 397 Coal Loader is listed for $45.00. I thought it was a good price for it. But checking it against others listed, it's actually priced toward the higher end of these loaders. I've seen some, in pretty good condition going for less than $30.00.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

KBeyer said:


> One thing that baffles me, in the 90s postwar prices were high and rising, and there was a lot of supply. Now, prices are low, and I just don't see a lot of quality stuff for sale. So, supply/demand is not working here. Postwar Lionel prices have been on a slide for a decade, so I find it hard to believe anyone is sitting on stuff waiting for higher prices before selling.


My main focus is the afore mentioned Postwar trains. Here in the Midwest when someone decides to sell off their collection they want prices set forth in the 1990s. A good bit of Craigslist offerings are usually out of sight $$$ wise. Lately one C-List seller wanted to sell his entire collection in one fell swoop for $5,000. He did state in the C-List description that he might?? maybe consider selling off individual pieces but did not mention any price range at all. Most collectors do not have $5,000 just laying around to purchase an entire collection. Parting out the collection would be more work but would attract collectors.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

sjm9911 said:


> Nice picture ish!


Thank you, SJM! I appreciate the comment, although I unwittingly posted two of them, lol. The pic was taken several years ago when my adopted kids were very young and my boy Mr. C at the #1033, ran the Virginian Trainmaster while blowing the horn incessantly. That was the day we brought home scads of FasTrack which were so tight and well-engineered that our little #1033 ran a really big loop on our living room floor with NO power drop!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

I think it is wise to try a reasonable buy-it-now price before going to auction and taking a lower price. So I don't blame people for trying - I certainly would: it only takes a little time and you might sell the item for what you think it is worth. 

When I see something I really want I buy-it-now. If I think it is overpriced I just wait to see if it doesn't sell and the owner reposts it as an acution, or make an offer.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

ERIE610 said:


> My main focus is the afore mentioned Postwar trains. Here in the Midwest when someone decides to sell off their collection they want prices set forth in the 1990s. A good bit of Craigslist offerings are usually out of sight $$$ wise. Lately one C-List seller wanted to sell his entire collection in one fell swoop for $5,000. He did state in the C-List description that he might?? maybe consider selling off individual pieces but did not mention any price range at all. Most collectors do not have $5,000 just laying around to purchase an entire collection. Parting out the collection would be more work but would attract collectors.


I'm in the upper mid-west, and I agree when Lionel trains are listed on CL (rare) the asking price is crazy. About five or more years ago I picked up a 1945 463W set locally from the original owner. He had it listed on CL for $800, as I recall. No set box, and just tattered individual boxes, so I knew the price was unrealistic. It sat on CL for a month before I contacted him to see it. I asked him how he came up with a price for the set, and he just shrugged his shoulders. I felt a bit sorry for the guy. It seemed he wanted one of his kids or grandkids to have it, but no one wanted it. So, I offered what I considered a "retail" price for it at the time ($300), which he accepted. It just amazes me that some people still think old Lionel trains are gold. Maybe if you've got LN/OB stuff, but not VG.


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