# (12/29/21) Beta 3.0 Engines from Menards!



## Menards (Oct 8, 2015)

All,

Beta 3.0 engines are now available! Shop now>










Thank you,
Mark the Menards Train Guy


----------



## Menards (Oct 8, 2015)

We are officially sold out. Sorry for everyone who missed out!

-Mark the Menards


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Wow that was fast! Lol. That hopefully is good news for when it is prodution.


----------



## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

I'm waiting for the final production version, hopefully with different road names. I've got way too many Santa Fe F units already. SP bloody nose would be good!


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

WOW, that was super quick in making any changes from beta tested 2.0 diesels. How many diesels will be in Beta test 3.0 ? Since your manufacture is releasing them in batches is there a predetermined number of test batches.

Bill


----------



## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Would be a slightly bit more useful if there was feedback in BOTH directions @Menards 
We gave you actionable feedback so why not tell us what you actually changed from batch to batch?
I'm almost $400 into this, and no longer willing to pay to play.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

At least Microsoft gives the Beta testers a free run of it.

You are paying _them_ to test _their_ products. Ain't America great!


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Jetguy said:


> Would be a slightly bit more useful if there was feedback in BOTH directions @Menards
> We gave you actionable feedback so why not tell us what you actually changed from batch to batch?
> I'm almost $400 into this, and no longer willing to pay to play.


I wonder if there was enough time to get your beta 2.0 feedback into the 3.0 production run. Analysis, design, testing, production and shipping time. Plus dealing overseas with China (assumption).


----------



## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Menards said:


> We are officially sold out. Sorry for everyone who missed out!
> 
> -Mark the Menards


Don't have to feel sorry for me. I'm patiently awaiting the final production version before I get one.


----------



## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

At this point, I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me to test. Geeze, it popped up as mail alert and when I click on offer "All sold out". Yeah sour grapes.


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

On the flip side, its a prototype, so in 50 years you'll be able to sell it for 2k. Go easy people, they didn't have to post it here, and you dont have to buy it. I do think menards is trying hard to produce stuff for us, and they want it to be good.


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Yes, but they want _you_ to test it for them _after_ you've paid for it.

Tell me you O Gauge guys aren't nuts. Please.


----------



## gpritch16 (Oct 24, 2021)

This is starting to feel like a marketing ploy. Small batches, make the customers feel special. Let's see how many "Betas" are released. 

I would still like to see a list of changes and improvements between each release.

How about an exchange program. Send in the earlier model for a BIG discount on the next version.


----------



## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

gpritch16 said:


> This is starting to feel like a marketing ploy. Small batches, make the customers feel special. Let's see how many "Betas" are released.


I've been having the same thoughts too, such a short time frame between 2.0 & 3.0 being released. Also, aren't these required to have an FCC ID on the back of the remote?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If and/or when a release version makes it to the market, then I'll be interested in trying it out.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Now they’re not calling it any type of locomotive but a Santa Fe….  maybe they honestly don’t know what kind of locomotive it is….?


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

The nylon gears would be a concern for me. I have had Lionel and Weaver diesels fail due to stripped or split nylon / plastic gears. 

Bill


----------



## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

rrman987 said:


> At this point, I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me to test. Geeze, it popped up as mail alert and when I click on offer "All sold out". Yeah sour grapes.


Yeah, I can relate to how you may feel. Spend MY *time, effort,* and *money* doing a little research on a particular subject for the benefit of fellow model railroaders, then feel like I get poo-poo'd on by a few ignorant 'Experts' when presenting my findings to the forum. 

These 'Experts' *opinions* are far smarter than my hands-on testing and research, ya' know.


----------



## santafe158 (Jul 14, 2010)

I saw one of the 2.0 versions run on the club layout last night. Overall it looked nice and definitely ran much better than what I saw exhibited in videos of the first version. I'm not sure I'd buy one, but it's a nice addition to their lineup of train products.


----------



## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I would really like to see some feedback from Menards. I'm certainly happy to see they are asking the O Gauge community to evaluate their product and potentially make improvement, but something from them would be appreciated. Give us a bigger glimpse behind the curtain since we're doing the product testing.

Just one persons opinion...


----------



## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

This must be their Beta test area since it certainly seems that they do not have one of their own. But you have to pay for the privilege of testing it for them.

I hate to say this but you guys are nuts if you give them one nickel for the 'privilege' of testing this for them.

I know of no other model railroad company that solicits testing for the payment of a new product. In fact, I know of no other company at all that asks for money to test one of their products.


----------



## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

gpritch16 said:


> This is starting to feel like a marketing ploy. Small batches, make the customers feel special. Let's see how many "Betas" are released.


"DITTO" 

But this Marketing Ploy as such is working. All total 600 Beta units were sold within a few minutes of being offered online only. These 600 SF Beta units may be a rare item someday, but I will probably be long gone by then. Great price though. However, I just bet the final release units will be at a much higher price. Hmm? I just wonder if any new rolling stock offerings will go thru a similar Beta Testing process? Only time will tell.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

MichaelE said:


> This must be their Beta test area since it certainly seems that they do not have one of their own. But you have to pay for the privilege of testing it for them.
> 
> I hate to say this but you guys are nuts if you give them one nickel for the 'privilege' of testing this for them.
> 
> I know of no other model railroad company that solicits testing for the payment of a new product. In fact, I know of no other company at all that asks for money to test one of their products.


I am guessing that most folks dropping their $150 to $160 George Washington's are just after a good looking AT&SF diesel at a bargain basement price. Like I stated in a previous reply the nylon gears would be a concern for me but at $160 I probably would take a chance. It will be interesting what the price will be for the actual non-beta production diesels.

Bill


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I watched the Oct review on Eric's trains. I like what I saw overall. It reminds me of the first flyer chief's we bought of several thomas engines. The paddle control, the sound, horn and bell.

Eric identified these items as suggestions to mensrds and I agree with them and have another. Since the offering above is beta 3, any of these could have changed. Anyway...

- the sound of the diesel engine and horn are poor. Get better samples.

- the motors have no fly wheels. Add these.

- the gears in the trucks are nylon or some kind of plastic. Use metal here.

My own suggestion is to provide a way to adjust sound volume. Technically the on off switch for sound does this in a minimal way but I'd prefer a volume dial. A possible middle ground is a 3 position switch: off, soft, and normal sound levels.


----------



## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Severn said:


> - the motors have no fly wheels. Add these.
> My own suggestion is to provide a way to adjust sound volume. Technically the on off switch for sound does this in a minimal way but I'd prefer a volume dial. A possible middle ground is a 3 position switch: off, soft, and normal sound levels.


*Flywheels were not ever the problem.* Also *Lionchief FT engines *as an example *for a direct comparison* also *do not have flywheels.* The fix was already performed in firmware to add momentum as well as no longer braking (coasting) the motor. This was proven in the video I made of a flywheel motor used in conjunction with a *version 1 board *that *brakes the motor instantly when moving to stop or neutral* on the remote. Again, for those who said just add a flywheel- you were wrong, *other changes in firmware had to be made*. *Those firmware changes were already implemented in version 2 beta. 
If you want flywheels now- that's fine to ask for but now there is even less reason for them to implement since **basically they solved it. Flywheels and different motors have a cost. Firmware was cheap.*

#2 *There already was and is a volume dial on the remote.* This is in addition to the signal sounds VS full sounds switch- they copied the Lionel function.

*#3 I'll agree with better sound samples-* and maybe that is the one thing changed in Beta 3.


----------



## pjdog1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I’ve tried three times to get one of these but they where sold out. A friend told me they where available again. I went to the site right away. But again they where gone? For all the complaints about them, they are like donuts across the street from a police station!


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

At this point, because of the Gee Whiz factor of a new player in the sandbox, they should just make a run of them and release them. I would be interested to see the saturation factor in the market, being kind of an economics geek. By that I mean I wonder if they made 5,000, would 5,000 sell and how long would it take. 

Right now, all of us (a general statement about the O Gauge community) want one because they sell out so fast. We don't want to be left out. 

I am not a Santa Fe runner, so I am not interested. I also generally am not interested in "F" cabs for freight hauling. 

I do have a question for those who have one or have seen one in person - _*are those trucks really that detailed?*_

I understand the trucks have been criticized for being too chromy - to which evidently Menards has done nothing nor provided an explanation - but beyond that they do look highly detailed for a $169.99 locomotive. Thoughts?


----------



## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

Bryan Moran said:


> I do have a question for those who have one or have seen one in person - _*are those trucks really that detailed?*_


No less than an equivalent Lionchief FT engine or say an MTH Railking.
It's not like MTH Premier or Lionel Legacy detailing (added brake piping and other small details), but pretty much inline with what we get on most diecast sideframe recent modern trucks.
The chrome does make it "pop" so I can somewhat understand why an impression is that it has more detail.








One detail I pointed out that was nice is that the screws for the sideframes point towards the user so when changing traction tires you can drop the sideframes giving you plenty of room.


----------



## gpritch16 (Oct 24, 2021)

ERIE610 said:


> "DITTO"
> 
> But this Marketing Ploy as such is working. All total 600 Beta units were sold within a few minutes of being offered online only. These 600 SF Beta units may be a rare item someday, but I will probably be long gone by then.


I didn't say it wasn't working . . . fool me once so to say. Just getting wise to it. (And, no, i haven't purchased Beta 1, 2, or 3.)

Rare item? Doubtful. At 600 visually identical engines, they are already boring the early adopters with cash to burn. I don't see these as a long term investiment. The Santa Fe F-Unit is simply too plentiful.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Ok I amend my comments as follows.

add slow to stop
gears should be metal
engine & horn sounds upgraded
add external volume selector with more options than on and off - this is apparently on the controller, so I remove this one as done!

Those are my suggestions to Menards to improve the product but still (probably) stay within price point ...


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

gpritch16 said:


> I didn't say it wasn't working . . . fool me once so to say. Just getting wise to it. (And, no, i haven't purchased Beta 1, 2, or 3.)
> 
> Rare item? Doubtful. At 600 visually identical engines, they are already boring the early adopters with cash to burn. I don't see these as a long term investiment. The Santa Fe F-Unit is simply too plentiful.


Since MTH went to exclusive locomotive offerings per dealer, 50 or so per RR is common now. A run of 600 or more for Menards AT&SF in todays world is not a small offering.

Bill


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Bryan Moran said:


> I am not a Santa Fe runner, so I am not interested. I also generally am not interested in "F" cabs for freight hauling.


Especially an FP locomotive, as this one is…..


----------



## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Especially an FP locomotive, as this one is…..


Yes I understand the whole F - FP controversy but for me it is not an issue. The so-called car body EMD locomotives are essentially what I am referring to. I have the MTH F3 in Rock Island. I have a CB & Q F3, which I purchased because I mistook it for an E, back when I did not know the difference. I don't believe I have a Milwaukee Road F, but I saw a 'to die for' F set from K Line on ebay last week. 

I appreciate both sides, the side that wants absolute authenticity. The side that does not really care. To me the difference though comes at a price point. At $169 or so, if you want to insist on calling it an FP, okay, but to me it's an F. It's an F because it's a bit shorter than an E. 

Over all, very happy with Menards involvement, I am just not that interested in their box cars.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I think the target audience is different. I have no idea how many Lionel flyer chief's are sold each season but they think they can get a chunk of them. And I bet they might be right.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I know that Henning's had at least 25 sets of the Lionchief Flyer sets, and they were all gone before Christmas. I counted those in the storage room, but I think there were more around the showroom as well. That's just one specific set, there was a ton of Polar Express going out the door as well.

There probably is a pretty big audience for an inexpensive locomotive with decent performance at that price point. I think bundling it with a set of some kind would be a good idea.


----------



## Severn (May 13, 2016)

One imagines they will do that, engine here, few cars, the tubular track which I believe they already sell, and... an 18v transformer. switches might be an issue. may they'll be the ones to stick a battery in these things!


----------



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

gpritch16 said:


> I didn't say it wasn't working . . . fool me once so to say. Just getting wise to it. (And, no, i haven't purchased Beta 1, 2, or 3.)
> 
> Rare item? Doubtful. At 600 visually identical engines, they are already boring the early adopters with cash to burn. I don't see these as a long term investiment. The Santa Fe F-Unit is simply too plentiful.


Im hoping you dont see trains in general as an investment. Let alone long term. Most will not see a gain on this hobby.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

sjm9911 said:


> Im hoping you dont see trains in general as an investment. Let alone long term. Most will not see a gain on this hobby.


I suspect my heirs will sell my stuff for ten cents on the dollar.


----------



## AMCDave (Jun 14, 2015)

Random thoughts on the Menard's loco:
While it is a EMD FP-9 loco that was a Canada only loco, when I google Santa Fe F unit they look enough like a FP-9 that I am OK.....I left the rivet counter back in HO scale.

Rapido is making a N scale FP-9 that sells for $279. So to me it makes the Menard's loco look like a deal. The O loco is something like 16 times the mass.....so there's that!!! LOL

I got a new to me loco in the mail today. I took it down to the layout to test. The Menard's loco was on the outer loop opposite me. I left it there and put the new loco on track. We conventional runners can now run two trains on the same circuit!!! Others may have thought or done this already but it was kinda cool. I see the draw to command control....but that train has left the station since I have 3-4 command locos in my roster of 100+ locos! 
thanks
Video of Menard's


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The video says it’s an FP7….you say it’s an FP9….does anyone know what it really is…..? 

The difference between the FP7 and FP9 is the same as between the F7 and F9; on the F7/FP7 there are four carbody filters on each side, and on the F9/FP9 there are five. To accommodate the fifth filter, the forward porthole is moved back a couple of feet and the filter placed just ahead of it.

Actually, when looking at the location of the forward port hole, it looks to be where it would be on an FP9…..except Santa Fe never had any…..  

Of course, Menards didn’t bother to put ANY car body filter louvers on the locomotive, so who knows what it’s supposed to be…. 

I know, you will say you don’t care, but it’s definitely an FP…..something….🤣


----------



## Jetguy (Mar 22, 2019)

I made this comment last night and did not submit it. This is not aimed or because of your video @AMCDave 

So watching a youtube "review" of V3, I have no idea what changed between version 2 and 3. *Same old comments repeated over and over, just by new people.*
One example 





Anybody actually know or have a good solid review of actual implemented changes in version 3? Or is this just going to be same old review of people just discovering problems since V1?


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It doesn’t even couple with cars properly!


----------



## AMCDave (Jun 14, 2015)

If I had never seen the loco before and was asked what it was....I'd said F-7. Then folks said it was a FP-7.......then it was a FP-9......next week it may be a FP-13......so what it is has changed a few times. 
My short Youtube video is just a test to see if I can do it......notice I have all of 3 videos so far. I may or may not get into doing real reviews, test etc at some point. Thanks


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Your video was pretty good…..


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

AMCDave said:


> ...I left the rivet counter back in HO scale.
> ...


That's exactly my thoughts on the Menards offering. If you're counting rivets, look elsewhere and pay top dollar. If you want to run some toy trains w/o depleting the IRA, Mernards has a loco for you.


----------



## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Millstonemike said:


> That's exactly my thoughts on the Menards offering. If you're counting rivets, look elsewhere and pay top dollar. If you want to run some toy trains w/o depleting the IRA, Mernards has a loco for you.


Yep, ya nailed it. I would like to see a Menards Milwaukee version for under $200.

Bill


----------



## AMCDave (Jun 14, 2015)

I love F units. If Menards does a EssPee Black Widow, SRR Black Tuxedo, DRGW any colors.....I'm in trouble!!!!


----------



## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

The weird post of the day comes from me... 

Hey Menard's... Are you going to get the wireless controller FCC certified and print an FCC ID# on the back? The only reason I ask this because I bought a new car a few months ago and in the owner's manual it says to be careful with the key fob if you have a pacemaker (not the New York Central kind😄). Having a received a pacemaker/defibrillator that does wireless updates not too long ago, I don't want to push a horn button and drop to the floor! FCC info: Equipment Authorization


----------



## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Matt Kramer said:


> The weird post of the day comes from me...
> 
> Hey Menard's... Are you going to get the wireless controller FCC certified and print an FCC ID# on the back? The only reason I ask this because I bought a new car a few months ago and in the owner's manual it says to be careful with the key fob if you have a pacemaker (not the New York Central kind😄). Having a received a pacemaker/defibrillator that does wireless updates not too long ago, I don't want to push a horn button and drop to the floor! FCC info: Equipment Authorization


I'm curious. How would a BT device interfere with a pacemaker (other than interfering with an update)?

I would think that BT chips made by large semiconductor companies would be within the FCC guidelines, especially with the PCB "zig-zag" antenna.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I dunno, but my grampa had a pacemaker…..every time he sneezed, the garage door would open….


----------

