# What years were Alco axles bushed?



## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

I just received a 470/471/473 Red/Silver Santa FE A-B-A.
Runs like a champ! This thing will pull a full 104" freight train fast enough to derail at 80% power on 40" curves. 

Gilbertgallery.org says they were made from 1953 to 1957. Mine has single rivet ladders on both A units. Powered A unit missing ladders, chassis screws, 1449 bulbs and 1 set of plastic horns, but otherwise a nice running set with usual signs of play. Good to VG condition to my unpracticed eye. Parts on the way. 

Interestingly, while lubing, cleaning and adjusting I noticed that the motorized unit has bushings. This is good, though my understanding is that the single rivet ladders were a 1957 production, but the bushings were earlier production. Can anyone add any clarification? 

A few additional points: It appears that diesel roar appeared in 1956, my B unit has horn, but not roar. This would imply 1955 or earlier. The catalogues online from 1955 on, being artist renditions, show no detail on ladder mounting. Up to and including the 1954 catalogue, there are 2 pins evident holding the ladders. This either places mine as a 1955 or a 1955 chassis with later (possibly 1957) shell? Still, were 1955 chassis bushed?

The seller included a 708 white air chime whistle control (1955-1956, I believe - not sure of color variations), if that tells us anything. At this point I see no reason to believe the whistle and all 3 units are not from the same set. Decals and patina and parts all seem to match. And maybe the bushings were a repair done later in life. 

Thoughts?


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Can you post some pics. to help us identify what you may have?


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

I think I found the answer I was looking for. I am told that the Santa Fe Alco's were never "bushed". So, these were done after the fact. Certainly explains why this diesel runs better than any of my others. 

Also, no diesel roar and single rivet steps strongly suggests this ABA is a 1955. Not the prettiest powered A unit, but does run like a champ!


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## phmo (Feb 2, 2012)

shaker281 said:


> I think I found the answer I was looking for. I am told that the Santa Fe Alco's were never "bushed". So, these were done after the fact. Certainly explains why this diesel runs better than any of my others.
> 
> Also, no diesel roar and single rivet steps strongly suggests this ABA is a 1955. Not the prettiest powered A unit, but does run like a champ!


Santa Fe 360s were bushed. I have two of them, one of which I replaced bushings on both powered trucks. I used Port Lines bushing kits. See Port Lines clinics for more info. https://www.portlines.com/portlinesclinic53.htm.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

phmo said:


> Santa Fe 360s were bushed. I have two of them, one of which I replaced bushings on both powered trucks. I used Port Lines bushing kits. See Port Lines clinics for more info. https://www.portlines.com/portlinesclinic53.htm.


Thank you - good info on the 360. Being new to AF collecting/buying, I have learned how important it is that these Alcos have been bushed. Buying one with too much play can get very costly. 

I appreciate the link. It says (and I've been told) that they must be milled (not drilled), so not something the average guy may be able to accomplish. Plus, one needs a wheel puller and must press out the axle/gear assembly. Then true up the bushings.

I am very pleased that the 470 I bought was already done. Might've dodged a bullet on that one. I am going to have my original owner 484 done, even though it is close to spec. I think this unit is worth the expense. I'll post up pics and the results when done.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

To add some more information, this video explains the differences in the early and later diesel motors. David Horn also has other repair videos as well as a web site with lots of good information on a host of repairs.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That is a nice video showing features not visible w/o a teardown. 
A couple of things not mentioned that can be noted. The later plastic axle gears have straight cut teeth, the early metal gears have angle cut teeth to better mate with the worm gears. Each metal plate in the armature stack is skewed with respect to the adjacent ones unlike the steamer armatures which are not skewed. Also while hard to see the position of the commutator segment gaps was changed from early to late production. This is like ignition timing, it changes the relationship of starting torque to high speed power.
The video shows why it can be a bad idea to add PulMor wheels to a 360 diesel. The motors were not designed for stall operation, the heat will quickly melt the coating on the armature windings. Design assumption was the wheels will slip. The newer motors were designed for higher heat with traction tires.


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## shaker281 (Jun 22, 2019)

Just awesome! Both the video and the additional details. This video is extremely interesting to me as I have a 470, a 484 and a chassis of unknown origin. The latter, I believe is a very early chassis, due to having PA11412 trucks and steel gears and link coupler side rails. So maybe came from a 360. This is the one I decide to have re-bushed. It is also my worst performer. 

Just for the heck of it, I timed my bushed 470, pulling 5 cars around the track 10 times and did the same with my other 2 Alcos without changing the throttle setting. A baseline if you will. Going to see how the chassis I am having bushed performs, before and after.
The bushed 470 was the best performer, followed not far by my 484 and the 360(?) a distant third. 

Tom, the detail about armature gap and the power curve is really cool! And the video shows a bigger armature for later years, which is interesting. It appears there may have been factory bushed (black) 360 trucks and un-bushed silver 360 trucks. Though not completely clear from the video. 

Meanwhile I will get the armature and everything else ready for re-assembly. Already sent the trucks off to Ed Goldin (Goldinhands.com). He lives in my neck of the woods and I am looking forward to the result! I enjoyed talking to him on the phone. Besides the bushings, he will true up the axles and replace if necessary. Mine had so much slop, I am assuming not bushed, but will find out from Ed, once dis-assembled.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Shaker, Ed has done 20 TMCC conversions of American Models engines for me as well as developed a fan driven smoke unit replacement for the two AM Northerns I have. He also added electro couplers to some of the engines, very nice to have. Ed will take good care of you.


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