# drilling for tortoise mounts



## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

Some people drill for oil...LOL.

So I understand it is critical to drill more or less straight down through the layout for mounting. My issue is I don't know how much I trust my ability to do that. Some of my turnouts are a good two feet from the edge of the table. I feel like I almost need a jig or guide, something to simulate a drill press. Any ideas, or have I just flipped my lid?


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

If I recall correctly the instructions with the Tortoise describe
a way to locate the hole you'll need for the throw bar. I didn't
install them, my Brother did, but described the procedure to me.

However, if you are going to mount the Tortoises under the
table, I would think that you could simply use a sharp object through the little
hole in the turnout throw bar WHEN IT IS CENTERED to
show you where to drill the hole. You'll want something near
3/8 to a half inch diameter to allow the throw movement room.

Don


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks Don.

The sharp object has to go through the plywood. My issue isn't locating the top of the hole, it's locating straight down through the plywood.

I measured the throw. It is only 1/8 inch. I figure 1/4 - 3/8 should be adequate.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Tam Valley recommends a 3/8" hole for their servos; I imagine that the tortoise motors would be about the same. I have an 8" long 3/8" bit for the electric drill, and I attach a fence post leveler (basically two levels at 90 degrees to one another) with a rubber band to get it fairly close to perpendicular.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Tam Valley recommends a 3/8" hole for their servos; I imagine that the tortoise motors would be about the same. I have an 8" long 3/8" bit for the electric drill, and I attach a fence post leveler (basically two levels at 90 degrees to one another) with a rubber band to get it fairly close to perpendicular.


Now why didn't I think of that?1?


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Tam Valley recommends a 3/8" hole for their servos;


Seems like a large hole. How do you "hide" it? Gee, nobody's ever asked that question I bet....


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

If you are drilling the hole directly under the track, you have a lot more room than 3/8". The track will hide any hole that is in the roadbed, unless of course you are doing a museum layout that will be closely scrutinize by the president of the international rivet counting club.
As far as being straight up and down, I wouldn't worry about NASA accuracy on this. As long as the drill bit is pointing down, you pretty much have it close enough. The wire that links the Tortoise Machine to the turnout is quite flexible and you can actually offset the machine by at least 3/4" and still have very good performance.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Hokie

From the way you say, I'm wondering if you plan
to drill the hole from under the table. That would
be a bit more tricky to locate the hole. I would
remove the turnout after marking thru the 'throw'
hole and drill from the top.

Don


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

DonR said:


> Hokie
> 
> From the way you say, I'm wondering if you plan
> to drill the hole from under the table. That would
> ...


Well, I was planning on drilling a pilot hole from the top, then coming up with the full size hole from the bottom. This way I don't have to remove the track, which is a pain to do when it's all interconnected.

But if it doesn't have to be super accurate because of a) larger than needed hole and b) some forgiveness with the motor, then I have some margin.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

hokie1525 said:


> Well, I was planning on drilling a pilot hole from the top, then coming up with the full size hole from the bottom. This way I don't have to remove the track, which is a pain to do when it's all interconnected.
> 
> But if it doesn't have to be super accurate because of a) larger than needed hole and b) some forgiveness with the motor, then I have some margin.


If you are planning to drill up from the bottom, you may as well just tear that turnout off the layout with a claw hammer and buy another one to replace it. You just have to barely touch it with the spinning drill bit and it will be trashed.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> If you are planning to drill up from the bottom, you may as well just tear that turnout off the layout with a claw hammer and buy another one to replace it. You just have to barely touch it with the spinning drill bit and it will be trashed.


Yeah, that's a concern. The Circuitron instructions recommend it as an option.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

hokie1525 said:


> Yeah, that's a concern. The Circuitron instructions recommend it as an option.


You really need to remove the turnout then drill the hole. An easy way to do this would be to cut a couple ties out from under the adjoining track near the points of the turnout, then slide the track connectors toward where you removed the ties. Lift that end of the turnout up then slide it away from the other two track connections. Re install it in the reverse manner after you drill the hole.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, yes, obviously, the best option is to remove the turnout and drill directly underneath the throwbar. However, my track was glued down to roadbed, which was glued down, covered with ballast, track soldered together, etc. etc. Installing the motor with an offset seemed like the lesser of two evils. I think it was.

My method (described a couple of posts further up) doesn't yield "NASA-like" accuracy, but rather "close enough for Government work" accuracy. With the long bit, there is no part of my layout which I can't go thru from the top. You just need to make a quick check to make sure there is no benchwork or wiring components directly under the turnout.

I repaired the holes, except for the actual part where the wire travels, with masking tape, covered by a dab of Sculptamold, covered by brown paint and ground cover. In two cases, the hole was under a structure, so I just trimmed a small hole in the base of the structure for the wire to pass through. So long as you cover up everything white, the small slot remaining is not very noticeable.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

My track is secured with track nails, and not yet ballasted. So I can remove the track. I just don't like doing it because in order to remove a turnout I pull up about a dozen nails and put force on the track that, in some cases, has caused the track to come unglued from the ties. 

Perhaps the idea of removing one of the ties makes sense. But to do so without first removing the turnout could be a bit of an acrobatic challenge.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

That seems extreme. First of all, most track isn't glued to the ties, it's held there by little plastic clips on the ties. Breaking those means you will have trouble with your track staying in gauge, and that's bad.

However, by removing just the two track nails at the joint, you should be able to lift the track enough to get a pair of flush cut nippers in there and clip the small piece of plastic that holds the ties together. Then you need to snip the part of small plastic clips I mentioned above that actually holds the rail on. This should allow you to slide those ties out (and you only need to do one side of the joint). When you're all done, slide the ties back under the track, align them properly (it should drop into the gap between the clips), and secure it with a drop of CA.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

hokie1525 said:


> My track is secured with track nails, and not yet ballasted. So I can remove the track. I just don't like doing it because in order to remove a turnout I pull up about a dozen nails and put force on the track that, in some cases, has caused the track to come unglued from the ties.
> 
> Perhaps the idea of removing one of the ties makes sense. But to do so without first removing the turnout could be a bit of an acrobatic challenge.


You would just have to do a close inspection of the turnout to be sure ya get all the nails pulled out. Once that's done, there shouldn't be any pressure on the track/ties joint, the turnout should just lift up easily.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> You would just have to do a close inspection of the turnout to be sure ya get all the nails pulled out. Once that's done, there shouldn't be any pressure on the track/ties joint, the turnout should just lift up easily.


The trouble is the turnout is connected to more track, which is connected to more track, etc. In order to separate to pieces of track, somewhere the track is going to bow. Usually this is more true on straightaways than on curves. It usually doesn't take much bend, but I have disjointed track from the ties that way.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

hokie1525 said:


> The trouble is the turnout is connected to more track, which is connected to more track, etc. In order to separate to pieces of track, somewhere the track is going to bow. Usually this is more true on straightaways than on curves. It usually doesn't take much bend, but I have disjointed track from the ties that way.


I guess I'm not understanding the situation then. If you remove the nails that are holding the turnout down, then slide the track joiners back so they release the track, I thought the turnout could be removed. 
Perhaps a picture of the turnout would help use to understand what you are trying to do.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

D&J Railroad said:


> I guess I'm not understanding the situation then. If you remove the nails that are holding the turnout down, then slide the track joiners back so they release the track, I thought the turnout could be removed.
> Perhaps a picture of the turnout would help use to understand what you are trying to do.


I have Atlas Code 83 track. Maybe other track is made different. For my track, there is no room to slide the joiner unless I clip the tie next to the joiner.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

hokie1525 said:


> I have Atlas Code 83 track. Maybe other track is made different. For my track, there is no room to slide the joiner unless I clip the tie next to the joiner.


That's the only way to do it, clip the tie and just dig it out from under the rail. You probably have left over track from construction which contains ties you can file down then slip under the rail when you are finished.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

hokie1525 said:


> I have Atlas Code 83 track. Maybe other track is made different. For my track, there is no room to slide the joiner unless I clip the tie next to the joiner.


Exactly. That's why we've both described in detail how to do it previously in this thread.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

How many turnouts are you talking about?

If you are using sectional track work on the piece before the turnout, that way if something gets messed up you just need to replace a piece of sectional track. Remove the sectional track first than the turnout. This way the turnout will just slide out. 

Going the off set way might be a better option for you than pulling up track. I've done it myself. Code 83 is a bit more delicate than 100 and I have broken the rail loose from the ties a few times. Just replaced a 3 way wye turnout for that very reason. 
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=315866&postcount=4.

It's easy to cover up the hole as CTValley said. A little tape and some ground cover and hide things with a small bush.

Magic


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

Magic said:


> Going the off set way might be a better option for you than pulling up track. I've done it myself. Code 83 is a bit more delicate than 100 and I have broken the rail loose from the ties a few times. Just replaced a 3 way wye turnout for that very reason.
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=315866&postcount=4.
> 
> It's easy to cover up the hole as CTValley said. A little tape and some ground cover and hide things with a small bush.
> ...


What gauge wire did you use? It looks larger than the 0.025 that comes with the switch machine.


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## Magic (Jan 28, 2014)

Been a long time but I think it was 0.032. You have to drill out the locking hole on the Tortoise. Got it from Mirco-Mark. I don't know if they still carry it? It's made by K&S Precision Metals. There number is 501 in wire. Google K s 501 music wire and you'll find some.
I used the bigger wire because I'm going through 1 or 2 inches of foam board.

Magic


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

I definitely know I'll need longer wire, the question is will it also have to be thicker.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

hokie1525 said:


> I definitely know I'll need longer wire, the question is will it also have to be thicker.


It seems that the wire that is provided with the Tortoise machine is just strong enough to work a well broken in turnout through 3/8" roadbed. The leverage needed on thicker roadbed seems to increase exponentially so the wire has to be thicker so it doesn't just bend under the pressure. As noted, the .032 piano wire should be sufficient for your application.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

K&S Precision Metals wire is available from various sellers through Amazon. There are both assortments and single widths available.


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## hokie1525 (Jan 13, 2015)

We have a good Hobby Town here with a variety of metals. I was just curious the size.


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