# tiny. the smallest. really really small.



## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

hello,
i'm new, and looking for some help. I want to do a very small lay out, if you can even call it that. just a circle of track, 12 inches or less in diameter. 1 engine, and maybe 1 car if possible. 
i'm building this (I hope) in the only available space in my little apartment, the interior of my piano bench. 
I have cats, so the lid will protect this effort. 

Will N scale do? or should I try Z? maybe T if I can find it? it won't be fancy, just the basics. 
I've seen layouts in old suitcases, which is what inspired me to get started.

thanks!

Carolyn


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

retirementhobby said:


> hello,
> i'm new, and looking for some help. I want to do a very small lay out, if you can even call it that. just a circle of track, 12 inches or less in diameter. 1 engine, and maybe 1 car if possible.
> i'm building this (I hope) in the only available space in my little apartment, the interior of my piano bench.
> I have cats, so the lid will protect this effort.
> ...


Welcome to the site, how long is the bench and how deep?
You might be able to put in more then a loop.
If it is long enough you can add some straights.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

hi, the bench is 33" long, just under 11" wide (I thought it was a bit wider) and 4" deep.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

N scale would work the minimum radius is 9 3/4".
You could run a 32" loop.
Z scale is 7.6".
N scale is more plentiful and might be cheaper to buy then Z.
Easier to see too.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You might be able to add 2 switches for a pull off track.
Or add 1 switch for a siding.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Big Ed said:


> N scale would work the minimum radius is 9 3/4".
> You could run a 32" loop.
> Z scale is 7.6".
> N scale is more plentiful and might be cheaper to buy then Z.
> Easier to see too.


thanks. |i was at the local hobby shop this morning, and he pulled out some curved track. it was a bit too big, but maybe he just didn't have the right sized curves. lol I took a template of the space I have to work with, to test it. 
so, next question is, what sort of track would I need, if i went with n scale, to get the curves round the ends of my layout? maybe I should order the tightest curve available. I have no idea what that might be. im new, can you tell.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

You will need T-Gauge (scale 1:450} Min radius 4.72 inches , Diameter 9.44 inches, to fit a loop on an 11" wide surface. N scale will not work.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You will have to wait till a true N scale expert steps up to the bat.
Right now I am doing O scale, and have a ton of HO scale packed away.
I got all my N scale from my Nephew, and a small layout from my Sister.
I never really put any N scale track down my self. So I don't want to steer you wrong.

My N scale thread, Ed's N Scale

In some of my pictures there are some buildings and maybe even a bridge/trestle you could add too.
Though a lot of the buildings are too tall for your space.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

T-Gauge set <Link
I have no recommendation, just info... 
You will need T-Gauge (scale 1:450} Min radius 4.72 inches , Diameter 9.44 inches, to fit a loop on an 11" wide surface. N scale will not work, nor will Z-scale (min diameter 15.2 inches) Diameter measurements are from centerline of the track, not overall width.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Since you do have an Apt. why not build a small shelf layout instead ? It could be 6" X 6' or 8' long on angle brackets same as a book shelf. You could shunt cars back and forth in/out of a few industry spurs off a thru main line, up at eye level.. In N you could actually get quite allot of trackage in this area... Wouldn't this be more sensible and fulfilling than a circle enclosed in a piano bench ? And if you plan to keep the train *on the rails* what's going to happen when you move the bench ?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Here is a table build thread, it is N scale. Looks to be just around 33"? (estimated) You say Z scale, smaller yet won't work?
I will go back and read thru the thread to see if a size is mentioned.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Or you could buy a larger piano bench...

Mine is 30"x15" inside dimension.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

By the way, Carolyn, welcome to the forum!! Yes, like Michael said, you will need wider to fit Z-Scale.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Duh, what am I thinking the above picture is around 33" wide.
Not the 11"/12" you have.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

How about a switching layout of some kind, no loop needed.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

retirementhobby said:


> maybe T if I can find it? it won't be fancy, just the basics.
> I've seen layouts in old suitcases, which is what inspired me to get started.


Check the dimensions inside your bench and let us know.


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## gregc (Apr 25, 2015)




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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

retirementhobby said:


> thanks. |i was at the local hobby shop this morning, and he pulled out some curved track. it was a bit too big, but maybe he just didn't have the right sized curves. lol I took a template of the space I have to work with, to test it.
> so, next question is, what sort of track would I need, if i went with n scale, to get the curves round the ends of my layout? maybe I should order the tightest curve available. I have no idea what that might be. im new, can you tell.


The information you were given about N scale radius at 9 3/4" may be a correct measurement it's not going to help you. What you need is the diameter which in this case is 19 1/2" which is why N scale will not work. If the Z scale measurement scale is correct and it's also a radius then you will be over 15" diameter. That's probably why the hobby shop track was too large.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Carolyn has not responded with her actual inside measurement, so we are flying blind. Likely that even the t-gauge might be too tight...
I suspect she is off doing some of her own online research.  
Maybe she is shopping ebay for a wider piano bench! 🤣


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Telltale makes a good point in post #10 about moving the bench and derailing the train.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking I saw 9 3/4 radius, not thinking about the measurement would be double for the curve.  
Like I said I never laid down N track yet. Mine came all together.
A switching layout would work in the space?
Though me personally would rather have a loop.

Now if you have a grand piano you can gut the piano and do a nice layout and keep trains and parts in the bench.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

cid said:


> Carolyn has not responded with her actual inside measurement, so we are flying blind. Likely that even the t-gauge might be too tight...
> I suspect she is off doing some of her own online research.
> Maybe she is shopping ebay for a wider piano bench! 🤣


hi everyone, I'm learning HUGE amounts here. I have no idea what the inside measurement would be. I just know I have 11 inches to work within.
it's all a great big learning curve. 
I ordered an N scale locomotive. i\m just doing this randomly, which will likely make all of you crazy. lol
Atlas, silver, Series EMD GP38 Diesel CP #3001 Because A, it's Canadian Pacific, and B because I just like the look of it. 
and I ordered a bit of track. no power yet, I just want to see what fits where. unitrack 4 5/8" (117mm) radius curve, 45-degree section. whatever that means. 

learn by doing, right?


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Big Ed said:


> Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking I saw 9 3/4 radius, not thinking about the measurement would be double for the curve.
> Like I said I never laid down N track yet. Mine came all together.
> A switching layout would work in the space?
> Though me personally would rather have a loop.
> ...


That's hilarious, because I was sort of thinking that if I gut a piano.... Not mine, but you always see pianos out on the street that no one wants. not grand pianos, uprights. but still....


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Big Ed said:


> How about a switching layout of some kind, no loop needed.
> View attachment 545069


I like this idea. it would provide YEARS of learning, experimenting, and play time.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

telltale said:


> Since you do have an Apt. why not build a small shelf layout instead ? It could be 6" X 6' or 8' long on angle brackets same as a book shelf. You could shunt cars back and forth in/out of a few industry spurs off a thru main line, up at eye level.. In N you could actually get quite allot of trackage in this area... Wouldn't this be more sensible and fulfilling than a circle enclosed in a piano bench ? And if you plan to keep the train *on the rails* what's going to happen when you move the bench ?


move the bench? oh you mean like actually move it so I can play the piano? hahahahahaaaa.....
no, but seriously, I do play the piano, but i don't move the bench. it's over 200 years old, so it gets treated very gently. it's still weight bearing, but I don't want the legs to start wobbling.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Wow, 200 years old I wouldn't even sit on it.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

cid said:


> You will need T-Gauge (scale 1:450} Min radius 4.72 inches , Diameter 9.44 inches, to fit a loop on an 11" wide surface. N scale will not work.


wow, thankyou! That sounds just what I'm looking for. I just bought a bit of N scale, which I will figure out where to put eventually. I'll go do some online browsing.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Big Ed said:


> Wow, 200 years old I wouldn't even sit on it.


things need to be used. the piano does not match the bench, it's much younger at only around 100 or so. lol I have a bizarre collection of stuff on it, at the moment. including a knitting pattern where sheet music should be. lol


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The cat statue looks very realistic.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Well, your 9-1/4 centerline diameter N-scale might fit inside your bench depending on the inside dimension.
Running the GP-38 on that tight radius is not guaranteed. But when u get the components in, try it out and let us know.
To be honest, I had never seen nor heard of "Unitrack Compact". I didn't even find it listed on KatoUSA.com 
until I went back and looked a second time.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

That's one of the five reasons for having a lid that closes on the lay-out. Gizmo is VERY helpful with all household tasks.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

cid said:


> Well, your 9-1/4 centerline diameter N-scale might fit inside your bench depending on the inside dimension.
> Running the GP-38 on that tight radius is not guaranteed. But when u get the components in, try it out and let us know.
> To be honest, I had never seen nor heard of "Kato Compact". I didn't even find it listed on KatoUSA.com


lol. guess we'll be finding out when they arrive. they were cheap, so i took the plunge. |I am that person who will throw themselves off the plane, and just jump right in.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Yours is a problem no trumpet player ever had.


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

Thanks Gramps..(#20) 
Who doesn't move a piano bench ?? !! Is it bolted to the floor ??!
You have a piano. It's in a room. Thus you have 4 walls. Put a shelf on a wall and put trains on it.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Who's Kong?


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> Who's Kong?


Peaches, my Spanish Podenco.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)




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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

My German Shepherd had one of those when she was a pup. It didn't last long before she got a black one. Those are good for about eight months.

She is never without it.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Kong hiding from the cat?


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

MichaelE said:


> My German Shepherd had one of those when she was a pup. It didn't last long before she got a black one. Those are good for about eight months.
> 
> She is never without it.


beautiful!


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Big Ed said:


> Kong hiding from the cat?


lol. They're very sneaky, those cats.


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## wchapman50 (Jan 1, 2014)

Just did a quick search and found KATO 20-176 N Unitrack Compact 117mm (4 3/5") Radius 45º Curve Track.
That would make the center of the track diameter of 9 1/5 inches or guessing with the road bed about 10 1/2 inches outside diameter. So the loop might be possible for continuous running and maybe with some switches a little switching activity in the middle. You engine and rolling stock choice would need to be able to handle the tight radius.
Lots of suggestions --- but remember is it your railroad.
Enjoy the hobby!!!


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

see Carolyn's post #22


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

On the bright side, you can fit it into the bench with N-scale. Now, what will run on these tight curves is another issue...


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

So I was right, I saw 9 3/4 and thought it would fit, but then cid said it wouldn't work, so he changed my mind. 
But like I said I have N but never laid down track with the N.
But then he said Z scale wouldn't fit either...........I didn't want to argue.
I thought he knew.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Gramps said:


> The information you were given about N scale radius at 9 3/4" may be a correct measurement it's not going to help you. What you need is the diameter which in this case is 19 1/2" which is why N scale will not work. If the Z scale measurement scale is correct and it's also a radius then you will be over 15" diameter. That's probably why the hobby shop track was too large.


So who is right now?
John or cid and you?


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Carolyn, welcome aboard the Obsession Express! As you've seen there's no shortage of ideas and guidance here. Here's another.
Why not build a switching layout *in your piano bench*? That way your GP38 wouldn't have to wrestle with super tight curves, and you could build a plausible industrial diorama and get some practice at both scenery fabrication and prototypical operation. I would suggest building it on a sheet of thin plywood that would fit down into your bench, but could be easily lifted out to work on.
My cats *love* practicing their rodent killing skills on my N scale trains, so I would suggest a hinged lexan cover between the bench and its wooden seat. I have an ancient Bachmann "sacrificial" switch engine that Onyx and Ebony can wreak their havoc on. Haven't killed it yet!
Is there a sofa and coffee table in your small apartment? After you've honed your skills on the switching layout, maybe you'd like to tackle a coffee table rail empire. There's lots you can do with N scale and a coffee table. Most important, have fun!


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Big Ed said:


> o who is right now?
> John or cid and you?


Haha, an interesting question, Big Ed! I'm sure we never realized it was a contest!  We know only that Carolyn has an 11" wide bench! How accurate that is, or how thick the sidewalls are, or what the inside dimension is (unless that is it), we can only guess. We discovered that there was a "Unitrack Compact" line with a radius only half their regular product offering, so, as I told her in post #30, "Well, your 9-1/4 centerline diameter N-scale might fit inside your bench depending on the inside dimension." So, I hope that was right!
Like GRJ said, it's 9.91" outside which gives her a 0.54" allowable wall thickness if the 11" outside measurement is accurate. So, THAT is the reason we are now waiting for the arrival of her components for test fitting. Even then, that's only about half the radius that most N locos are said to accommodate, if I'm not mistaken. There is also N flextrack available which can bend tightly, but I really think that the limitation here is what loco can be run. There is probably a Japanese Trolley which can handle the tight curve if all else fails.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

I think that she just wants to keep us all in suspense 🤣🤣🤣


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

VTtrainguy said:


> Carolyn, welcome aboard the Obsession Express! As you've seen there's no shortage of ideas and guidance here. Here's another.
> Why not build a switching layout *in your piano bench*? That way your GP38 wouldn't have to wrestle with super tight curves, and you could build a plausible industrial diorama and get some practice at both scenery fabrication and prototypical operation. I would suggest building it on a sheet of thin plywood that would fit down into your bench, but could be easily lifted out to work on.
> My cats *love* practicing their rodent killing skills on my N scale trains, so I would suggest a hinged lexan cover between the bench and its wooden seat. I have an ancient Bachmann "sacrificial" switch engine that Onyx and Ebony can wreak their havoc on. Haven't killed it yet!
> Is there a sofa and coffee table in your small apartment? After you've honed your skills on the switching layout, maybe you'd like to tackle a coffee table rail empire. There's lots you can do with N scale and a coffee table. Most important, have fun!


I already obsessed about a switching layout. Post 15.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

cid said:


> I think that she just wants to keep us all in suspense 🤣🤣🤣


OK, but surely a Z scale would work in that space?
Like I said my n scale table I received built, so I never laid down any N track. I was going to mention the flex track, but then again I never had any.
Z scale I never had. But that should fit in the space?


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

I would think so, BUT... the Z-scale minimum radius sectional I saw advertised was larger than the 117mm N scale!! So, go figure. If there's a Z-scale flex, that would probably the IDEAL solution. I can't wait to see what she comes up with, because she's obviously talented and imaginative, so I think we are all gonna learn something!!  It's already making me want to try something like that!


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

This is what I found on TrainBoard:

"As John said the typical radius to get the majority of Z scale equipment to run reliably is 9" (195mm). Even better for running is 10" (220mm). Both MTL and Marklin make these sizes in sectional track. MTL's track is easier to use if you are new to model railroading. Marklin also has a smaller size radius, the 145mm that John mentioned, but much of what is available won't run well on this (around 7"). "
So, it could be that Z is not very forgiving of tight curves. Just have to tack down up a loop and run it for a while.


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## LJClark (Jun 26, 2017)

T? Seems like it would fit inside the bench...
View attachment 545254


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Big Ed said:


> I already obsessed about a switching layout. Post 15.


Roger that, but IIRC, you were talking about a somewhat larger wall mounted shelf, which I gather, is not compatible with her art-covered walls. Anyway, I'm sure she'll tell us.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

i'm reading and learning TONS from you guys, thank you for being so well informed and willing to share.
i'm waiting for my engine and track to arrive. finances took a bit of a hit this month, so more pieces will have to wait for a bit.
needed a new saddle for my horse, who is hard to fit. nothing I own works. (sigh.) dog went to the vet. nothing serious, but meds for a couple of weeks.
need a new computer to do my bar exam on line. (double sigh...)
notice how the saddle/horse came first in that list. lol 
train stuff is on its way, so I'll let you all know when it arrives. I'm sure it won't fit where I want, but am rethinking that. might build it in a dresser drawer, instead. a pull-out lay-out. good excuse to get rid of clothes i don't need. lol


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Big Ed said:


> So I was right, I saw 9 3/4 and thought it would fit, but then cid said it wouldn't work, so he changed my mind.
> But like I said I have N but never laid down track with the N.
> But then he said Z scale wouldn't fit either...........I didn't want to argue.
> I thought he knew.


The 9 3/4 you saw was radius which is 19 1/2 diameter. You acknowledged that mistake in an earlier post, #21. That should answer your question in post #46.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

lol. here's my plan. 
if N doesn't work, I'll try Z. if Z doesn't work, I'll try T. If T doesn't work, well.
guess I'll have a collection of small smaller smallest train shtuff.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

The dresser drawer also solves the cat issue.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Now we're thinking inside the box... No, wait....
Sorry, nothing better to do at the moment, reading about Fauci wild pitch, etc...


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Carolyn, here's an idea for a reasonably capable railroad in a small space. If you have room for a coffee table, you could do something like this:




Coffee table layouts have a tendency to become large and elaborate if some discipline isn't exercised in their design. This one appears to be a little too much of a "round n' round" without enough switching options to keep it interesting, as the builder discovered after years of work. But it does seem reasonably compact.
He chose to model modern, large rolling stock, which look rather awkward on the tight curves required for a compact design. I would suggest modeling the 1940s-50s, with 40 foot freight cars, a mix of steam and diesel power, and less of a sense of the rolling stock overshadowing the scenery. Any way you slice it however, don't forget the fun factor!


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

lol. the piano bench IS the coffee table.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Gramps said:


> The 9 3/4 you saw was radius which is 19 1/2 diameter. You acknowledged that mistake in an earlier post, #21. That should answer your question in post #46.


It should?
But now it looks like the N will fit?
And if N would fit surely Z scale would?


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

retirementhobby said:


> lol. the piano bench IS the coffee table.


Ouch! Sounds claustrophobic to me. Dresser drawer sounds better. Are you good at carpentry, or have friends that are? Here's a thought. Build a platform you can stand your dresser on, and which can enclose one of your dresser drawers, creating an empty drawer space in the dresser itself. Then build a custom fit drawer to put your railroad in.
You could build the controls right into the front of your custom drawer and not have to butcher one of your antique drawers or downsize your wardrobe. Or you could build the drawer front out of Lexan and have a peek-a-boo railway. Just keep the fun factor in mind, whatever you do.
PS: If you decide to go ahead with the tight radius N scale track, you might consider some short-coupled rolling stock, such as a GE 44 or 70 ton diesel switcher or an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 steamer and older, shorter freight cars such as 40 ft boxcars, 36 ft tankers, and 36 or 38 ft reefers. Personal prejudice, but I find Z and T scales frustratingly tiny. Have fun now, hear?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Big Ed said:


> It should?
> But now it looks like the N will fit?
> And if N would fit surely Z scale would?


John, cid and I are on the same page. The problem is finding a diameter that will fit. You keep referencing, as in post #45, the 9 3/4 radius which is half the diameter.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

VTtrainguy said:


> Ouch! Sounds claustrophobic to me. Dresser drawer sounds better. Are you good at carpentry, or have friends that are? Here's a thought. Build a platform you can stand your dresser on, and which can enclose one of your dresser drawers, creating an empty drawer space in the dresser itself. Then build a custom fit drawer to put your railroad in.
> You could build the controls right into the front of your custom drawer and not have to butcher one of your antique drawers or downsize your wardrobe. Or you could build the drawer front out of Lexan and have a peek-a-boo railway. Just keep the fun factor in mind, whatever you do.
> PS: If you decide to go ahead with the tight radius N scale track, you might consider some short-coupled rolling stock, such as a GE 44 or 70 ton diesel switcher or an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 steamer and older, shorter freight cars such as 40 ft boxcars, 36 ft tankers, and 36 or 38 ft reefers. Personal prejudice, but I find Z and T scales frustratingly tiny. Have fun now, hear?


aw mannnn... that's WAY too much work! lol


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Hahaha we all mean well, Carolyn Just fiddle with it when ur stuff comes in and see where you are!! Imma lookin forward to it!


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

cid said:


> Hahaha we all mean well, Carolyn Just fiddle with it when ur stuff comes in and see where you are!! Imma lookin forward to it!


Aren't we all!


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

hello! just checking in quickly, to say that I expect my N scale locomotive and track to be here by Monday! can't wait! 
will take pics and share with you all then. maybe I should do a video of the unpacking, post it on youtube, and become famous. 
hahahahaaaaaa


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

just got home from the barn, and guess what was waiting for me at my door! Early! (not the cat. the cat was already there.)


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

the locomotive is a bit too long to run on such a small turn, but IT FITS! and you can see why it had to have a lid.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Glad it's working even though it's tight. 
Either your cat was so startled by the train that it shed its dark fur or you have two cats.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

there are five cats. 
and a dog. 
the horse doesn't live here.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Handsome horse! Spunky too, it seems. English, or Western? Five cats and a dog in a tiny apartment, you must be an accomplished practitioner of feline/canine politics!
Betcha an 0-6-0 steam switcher would take those tiny curves more gracefully than your diesel. The whole thing, with tender, is shorter than a GP, and has a hinge in the middle. I've run mine around flex track bent down to five inch radius, just to see if It could do it. Looks awkward, but it works. A GE 44 ton diesel would probably work, as would an 0-6-0 tank engine steamer. Have fun!


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

thanks! eventer, I hope. but we'll see. the cats are in charge, Peaches tries to stay out of trouble, but sometimes gets her nose smacked just as a reminder. cats, man. 
I'll google the steam switcher, it sounds really interesting. This new hobby is really fun. and I love that everyone is so helpful. it's a nice change from the cut-throat competition ring. lol


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

ok, so I'm an idiot. A good hard pull is all you need to take the track apart, i was being way too delicate. I can fit some curves, a fig. 8, and a bridge in my tiny space. 
shopping trip coming up in a few weeks. it'll be my congratulations on writing the bar exam reward to myself. gives me some time to plan a little.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Gentlemen: may I present to you, my first lay-out, using stuff I had kicking around the apt. 

i'm rather pleased with this, and will leave it as it stands (or lays) for now.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

retirementhobby said:


> Gentlemen: may I present to you, my first lay-out, using stuff I had kicking around the apt.
> 
> i'm rather pleased with this, and will leave it as it stands (or lays) for now.
> View attachment 545870


I call it: Jurasic Park gets its shipment of tinned food.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the dinosaurs were bound to get that train, it didn't have anywhere to go! 

You have the curves licked, now you need a track plan that gives that poor engineer time to escape!


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

You will need about a 3 inch clearance for the train to go under the upper track if your figure 8 with the bridge is what you are planning. You may not have enough room to do that without a very steep grade.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You have the curves licked, now you need a track plan that gives that poor engineer time to escape!


A few straight sections and a couple switches, and you can have an oval loop with sidings. Gives you interesting things to do when you get tired of round 'n round. Get a couple industrial buildings (factory, warehouse, freight station, etc) and put them by your sidings, so you can simulate loading freight cars and making up trains. In N scale, they're jewel-like miniatures. It's amazing the fun you can have in a small space.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Gramps said:


> You will need about a 3 inch clearance for the train to go under the upper track if your figure 8 with the bridge is what you are planning. You may not have enough room to do that without a very steep grade.


Disregard this, I forgot you're working in N scale and my brain was in HO. My bad!


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

The length of a piano bench will still require a very steep grade if she's shooting for an over/under.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Gramps said:


> You will need about a 3 inch clearance for the train to go under the upper track if your figure 8 with the bridge is what you are planning. You may not have enough room to do that without a very steep grade.


yes, I'm considering that. don't know if I have enough space going through the diagonal or not. we shall see.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

retirementhobby said:


> yes, I'm considering that. don't know if I have enough space going through the diagonal or not. we shall see.


I gave you bad information, the 3 inches is incorrect information. See post #82 and 83.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

3"? With N-scale? Probably 1.5" will do, though that will still result in some fairly steep grades.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Doesn't everyone have dinosaurs?


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Big Ed said:


> Doesn't everyone have dinosaurs?
> 
> View attachment 545879


We're a dragon house!









Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

vette-kid said:


> We're a dragon house!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you really can't go wrong, with dragons.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> 3"? With N-scale? Probably 1.5" will do, though that will still result in some fairly steep grades.


Yes, I corrected myself in post #82.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Dragons, dinosaurs, what's the diff? How about flying purple people eaters, for a truly distinctive menagerie?


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Just for grins, I tried setting up a over/under figure eight in 11x30 inch space limits using code 80 flextrack, and my N scale 0-6-0 and my GE 70 ton could barely negotiate the grades running light, and couldn't pull any cars over the top due to wheel spin. This was simulating matching Carolyn's really tight sectional track, 3/4 of a circle in each loop. This made for a really short figure eight that used only a little over half of the available length and had a crossing angle near 90°. Then I tried again, lengthening it out so there was only a half circle at each end matching Carolyn's sectional track, and the rest was custom bent to go where it needed to go, with a much more acute crossing angle. Now the grade was less steep and each engine could pull a short train over the hill. This would be hard to do with sectional track. Y'all have fun now, hear?


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

VTtrainguy said:


> Just for grins, I tried setting up a over/under figure eight in 11x30 inch space limits using code 80 flextrack, and my N scale 0-6-0 and my GE 70 ton could barely negotiate the grades running light, and couldn't pull any cars over the top due to wheel spin. This was simulating matching Carolyn's really tight sectional track, 3/4 of a circle in each loop. This made for a really short figure eight that used only a little over half of the available length and had a crossing angle near 90°. Then I tried again, lengthening it out so there was only a half circle at each end matching Carolyn's sectional track, and the rest was custom bent to go where it needed to go, with a much more acute crossing angle. Now the grade was less steep and each engine could pull a short train over the hill. This would be hard to do with sectional track. Y'all have fun now, hear?


how long does this 0-6-0 engine measure? I found a couple on e-bay but they don't say what the length or size is, other than n scale.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For that small a space, I'd consider the figure-8 with a crossover and keep it all level.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Pl


retirementhobby said:


> how long does this 0-6-0 engine measure? I found a couple on e-bay but they don't say what the length or size is, other than n scale.



View attachment 545930

As you can see, about 4 1/2 inches, but that's not the important dimension. What really matters is wheelbase.
View attachment 545931

Which, as you can see, is just a little over an inch. This engine is a Bachmann model of a USRA 0-6-0 switcher, a WWI era design that stayed in service up until the end of steam in the 1950s.
View attachment 545932

Here are the only four locos out of my N scale collection that have a snowball's chance "en l'enfer" of negotiating your tight curves. The larger diesel is an Atlas model of an Alco RS3, and is about 3/4 the length of your GP. The smaller one is a GE 70 Ton by Bachmann, and is a little grumpy about the tight curves, but negotiates under protest. The tiny steamer is an 0-6-0T tank engine, of unknown manufacture. Because it carries its coal in a bin behind the cab and its water in a saddle tank over the boiler, it needs no tender and carries all its weight on its drive wheels for better traction. A regular mountain goat. Often used on logging railroads and in quarries, as well as in switchyards.

View attachment 545938

Looks kind of awkward, but it can be done. The green and yellow boxcar is a 40 footer, the brown stock car, a 38, and the two tankers are 36s. Hopper cars and gondolas can be found in 35 and 36, though most are longer, and reefers in 36 and 38. The shorter the better.
_Enjoy!_


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

VTtrainguy said:


> Pl
> View attachment 545930
> 
> As you can see, about 4 1/2 inches, but that's not the important dimension. What really matters is wheelbase.
> ...


thanks, I';ll look them up, right now, your attachments aren't opening for me. 
would love to spend the afternoon on this stuff, but I have some bugs to work out between my computer, and my law society account. I hate setting up new computers. passwords, usernames...
ugh. can't remember any of them, and even if they're written down, they still don't want to work.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Carolyn, did you ever think of building a slightly larger railroad on a piece of thin plywood, oh maybe twenty inches by forty inches, or thereabouts, that could be set on top of your piano bench for running and stood on edge in a closet the rest of the time? How are your sewing skills? You could make a multi pocket roll up pouch to keep your rolling stock in, all in the plastic jewel cases they came in. A rectangular ridge on the underside of the plywood slightly larger than your piano seat would help your little railroad world stay put while you're in operating mode. Just a thought. Good luck!


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

I'm thinking maybe one if those plastic storage boxes that rolls under a bed... Maybe. I did a minimal search and one claimed to be around 44" x 19" for example, although I'm sure that the outside dimensions. They of course are only a few inches tall. 6".


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Instead of a "trundle bed".....a "trundle train"!


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

VTtrainguy said:


> Carolyn, did you ever think of building a slightly larger railroad on a piece of thin plywood, oh maybe twenty inches by forty inches, or thereabouts, that could be set on top of your piano bench for running and stood on edge in a closet the rest of the time? How are your sewing skills? You could make a multi pocket roll up pouch to keep your rolling stock in, all in the plastic jewel cases they came in. A rectangular ridge on the underside of the plywood slightly larger than your piano seat would help your little railroad world stay put while you're in operating mode. Just a thought. Good luck!


nice ideas, and my sewing skills are superb (I actually construct custom tailored riding jackets) but no. I'm sticking to the piano bench. thanks, though. I bet others could for sure use these ideas. maybe for my second layout.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

retirementhobby said:


> passwords, usernames...
> ugh. can't remember any of them, and even if they're written down, they still don't want to work.


If you weren't born with a digital brain, you're adrift on a stormy sea in today's world. We digital immigrants get left behind by the digital natives who now run the world. I have no idea why the photos I embedded in post #95 transmitted as attachments with broken links rather than embedded photos. No response from Xenforo.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

and now, my Law Society account has been disabled. 
this makes me want to go live in a cave on an island by myself.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

retirementhobby said:


> and now, my Law Society account has been disabled.


Security breach! Security breach! Shut her down! An imposter has hacked her account. Now try to convince the folks in Tech Support you're the real you.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

my exam is less than 3 weeks away. i'm having a mini-melt-down.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

What is important to you, Carolyn??
Work toward that. Disregard irrelevancies.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

working on it. 
LSO doesn't open until 9am. having coffee, and breathing. lol


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Yes, breathing is a priority!


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Stay calm and carry on. You can do it.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

ok. LSO account re-established. 
have just been informed that I need either passport, or Ont. ID card, neither of which I have, both of which will take several weeks to get. my exam is Sept. 1. I am screwed.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Odd that no one informed you of this. Maybe if you talk really nice, and present a copy of your ID application and receipts, they will let you stand. Worth a try...


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

exams were supposed to be in july, but with Covid, everything is changing. I'm the odd person out, with no drivers licence, or passport. I can defer my exam until October. gives me more time to study.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

This might be a blessing in disguise, good luck.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

retirementhobby said:


> gives me more time to study.


So plenty of time to get your ID? Assuming you were to start now?? Just asking...


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Derby (my horse) gets a day off, while I run around doing important law society matters. lol starting the ID process, which means putting on real clothes, some makeup, combing hair for photo. then wait 4-6 weeks for it to arrive in the mail.
heading to library (because my new computer refuses to recognize my printer) to print request for deferral form, print, fill, copy, send in. 
then, ...
some housekeeping, I guess, and will dig out plywood sheet (don't even ask why I have a 4x8 sheet of 1/4 " plywood in my apartment...) get the circ. saw out of storage, and cut a base for my lay-out. I'm attaching handles at each end, so I can lift it easily out of the bench, to make working on it easier. I have styrofoam, to begin shaping land formations. I have a waterfall kit so I can learn how to make realistic looking water for the river that will run through it. 
eventually, I'l get glue and paint, and all the fun toys. 

so if you'll all excuse me, I need to go paint my nails.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I just bought an 0-6-0 and tender on e-bay. hope it works, hope it fits, hope it gets here fast. pics when it arrives.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I cut my base from plywood last night. fits nicely. this afternoon, I'm off to the hobby store for some more track, and to learn more about the difference between DC and DCC. I'm strongly leaning towards DCC.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Is your licence DCC? I'd recommend DCC of your ok spending the money or comfortable building your own controller. But your trains will need to have decoders as well.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

my licence? what licence? I have no idea. I am not building a decoder. 
my current loco is DCC . I have another one arriving in a couple of weeks (I hope) so we'll see. That one will make the decision, I guess.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Locomotive, sorry. Auto correct got me again

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I brought it up because DCC controllers aren't cheap, unless you build one ( cost me about $50). If that's a concern for you anyway. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

vette-kid said:


> Locomotive, sorry. Auto correct got me again
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


lol


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

For the type of layout she's contemplating, one of the limited systems like Bachmann EZ Command or MRC Prodigy Explorer would work well. They're not much more than a good DC power pack.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

got my 0-6-0 locomotive and tender today, earlier than expected! tomorrow, it's off to the hobby store for more track. I'll take this with, so I can get the right controller for it.
what FUN! we are on our way. I'm sure I;ll come home with some extras. scenery? trees? little tiny people? buildings? who knows! it's where ever my whim will take me.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

What do you have or will get for rolling stock? Can't have a very long train in that bench!...LOL. Who makes your new loco? I see it's D&S road.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm enjoying this thread and can't wait to see the final result.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Fire21 said:


> What do you have or will get for rolling stock? Can't have a very long train in that bench!...LOL. Who makes your new loco? I see it's D&S road.


good question. Now I have to hunt down my magnifying glass to see if there's a maker on the bottom. 
but first I need coffee. had a red bull last evening, and fell asleep before 8:30, now it's just after 6 am and I feel like I was run over by a train. lol in about an hour, I'll be feeling really good. lol


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Gramps said:


> I'm enjoying this thread and can't wait to see the final result.


lol. is there ever a final result?


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

retirementhobby said:


> lol. is there ever a final result?


Nope!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

so. update. new engine is Bachman. there's a coupler included, so now i guess I need to learn how to attach it without destroying everything.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)




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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

ok. don't think that's a coupler. no idea what it is. 
i'm sure someone here can enlighten me.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

lol. helps if I read the instructions it came with. sort of. it's a dummy coupler for train set only, whatever that means.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

It's a coupler with no moving parts. Cars are coupled/uncoupled by lifting the car and sliding one coupler into the other. A dummy coupler can only be used with another dummy coupler.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Stumpy said:


> It's a coupler with no moving parts. Cars are coupled/uncoupled by lifting the car and sliding one coupler into the other. A dummy coupler can only be used with another dummy coupler.


ahh! thankyou! I thought it looked a little...
simplistic. I probably won't be using it. I want couplers that really couple. 
lord that sounds rude. lol


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I have taken the plunge, and ordered: basic oval and siding and something called a Kato power pack. 

I'm hoping this gives me enough track and more, and I have no idea how the power pack will work. It's all due in less than 2 weeks. And in the meantime, I've discovered small spots for even more, even tinier, layouts.
the top of a wooden bar stool, for example. 
a 12" ceramic tile. (I could put the tile on the stool.) 
and a small silver chafing dish, with lid. 

I have fallen into the pit. gone down the rabbit hole. got sucked into the vortex. 

pray for me.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

From a photo it looks like you are using Kato Unitrack. The power pack plugs into a feeder track from Unitrack so you need the feeder track.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, looking at that “dummy coupler”, it’s not a dummy coupler after all.....it’s called a Rapido coupler, and it does operate and will couple, albeit only with other Rapido couplers.....Rapido couplers were the ones that came with all early N gauge trains, until Micro Trains came up with their knuckle couplers.....FYI.....


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

wow, thanks! this hobby might get more expensive than the horse.....


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

It ain't cheap.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Yes, but as my brother said between his sons having motorcycles and his daughter having a horse, when they tired of them the horse still cost money to feed and keep!


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

You have not gone down the rabbit hole or into the vortex until the first time you think of selling the horse to buy more trains.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

that'll never happen. so I guess I'm safe, then. 


I have gone from 60 to 1, though. lol


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

track and controller are arriving by 9 pm today. that was really fast, from Model Train Stuff, and I'm looking forward to playing trains tonight!


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I've ordered a few times from them, they always have fast shipping and good deals

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I had to pay import fees. 
include shipping, and any savings are POOF out the window.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

that's buying on-line in Canada for you.....


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

it gets better.
UPS has failed to deliver. 
I can't get hold of them.
They haven't responded to my e-mails, OR my questions to their help line. 

poop.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

ok, so after much angst, and back and forthing (shunting, yes?) with UPS via twitter private messaging, I finally have my track and controller. it was WAY more track than I anticipated. There are a bunch of interesting parts that I have to learn about. also, I'll need to use an extension cord so I have power. Later on I'll see about getting a power thing and controller that uses batteries. 
the bonus is that it came in my favourite colour, sky blue. lol 

the curved track will be used for my bigger loco, once I get my original lay-out organized. 

this gives me hours and hours of happy play time.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't see those curves making the 14" diameter you were origionally talking about! :d


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

look on the bright side. I have LOTS of extra track.
my diameter is even smaller, only 11"


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

we have lift off. track is laid, power on, engine running! I had to unhitch the tender, it kept derailing. it's coupled too short, but I think I can fix that. 
I also don't need the extra bits there, as there's not quite enough room for the by pass. 
this will be really simple I think, just grass, trees, and maybe some buildings eventually.

god help me, I'm already looking ahead to the next, bigger one. lol


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hello, can you connect the 2 turnoffs? Will they take track?
Add some sidings?
It's a shame how you treat your new trains ! 
Pickup the tender.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

omg I promise never to offend by putting something down on its side ever again. lol I think the hind set of wheels is sticking. they don't straighten coming out of the turn, and it derails. laying it on its side was appropriate punishment. 
i don't have the right length of track pieces to connect the turn-offs. That'll be for another LOCAL shopping spree. 
also, not quite sure how I'll couple the tender to the engine. will post pics of the issue later.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Carolyn, I am really pleased to see u making such great progress!! 
I'm betting there is no Kato solution for connecting that siding, the turnouts are so close together. 
BUT it could be an opportunity to try mating the Unitrack to a short piece of flex.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I had that same thought. 
flex track. either that, or it becomes a sort of 2 level operation. lol 
I'm supposed to be studying for my bar exam, I've been called to jury selection, I have orders for about 60 face masks, and my horse is about to begin a new stage in her training, but right now? 
I just want to play trains.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I have altered my layout slightly. 
I'm gonna need more track. 

is there no end to this. 

lol


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

retirementhobby said:


> I have altered my layout slightly.
> I'm gonna need more track.
> 
> is there no end to this.
> ...


The short answer is No


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

yeah, thanks. 

lol


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

retirementhobby said:


> I have altered my layout slightly.
> I'm gonna need more track.
> 
> is there no end to this.
> ...


No, there isn't. Welcome to the addiction!


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)




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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I'm home with a herniated disk (not horse related. it was the vacuuming that did it.) so, i've been playing trains.
here's the track lay-out. My train will be a small excursion train, with 1-2 passenger cars. there will be a small station and platform, and the grounds will be a sort of park, with flower beds, walking paths, and stairs going up to the look out point, which will be a re-purposed plastic meat tray. There is a tunnel going through it,, and I might do something interesting inside it, as well. like a restaurant area or something. I wanted to have a waterfall coming down over it, but there's no room to have the water go anywhere when it gets to the bottom. 
I solved my little sticking wheel problem on the tender. I just had to losen the screw a half turn.  the wheels were getting stuck on the little bit that keeps the coupler in place. 
the white thing is the deep plastic meat tray. the pillars at the front of it are two plastic sewing thread spools. 
I hope to add a concession stand, as well as a souvenir shop. 

I'll attach the controller to the lid with velcro, and tape the wires in place. that'll get them all out of the way. I have about 1/2 " clearance all the way around, so along the backdrop, i'll use kraft paper and do some painting, and maybe a plaster frieze. 

This is very addictive.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Very ingenious. Would you think about coming off the right hand spur with the left turnout or in the area where you have the plastic handle shaped thing?


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

I tried that, but the incline is too steep. the radius is the smallest possible, the whole width of the inner bench is 11", and I need 1/4" clearance for the train. in the bottom of the frame where you can't see, the track is right up against the wall, and I have to move over so the train can fit. 
I tried an hourglass shape, but that leaves the oval really short. 

my next lay-out thought......


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I wasn't thinking of an incline but just another siding.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Gramps said:


> I wasn't thinking of an incline but just another siding.


Good ideal, just take the back switch to nowhere and put it up front.
Add a straight to the back. It is a waste using the switch back there.


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## cid (Jul 3, 2014)

Maybe move the switch from the mainline to the siding, like this, then you would have a spur parallel to the main, in addition to your current one.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Can you fiddle a bit and get a 15- degree (or smaller) crossing piece to fit in there? Then you could have spurs going in both directions and use both turnouts.


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## Shdwdrgn (Dec 23, 2014)

Actually if you take that dead-end turnout off the mainline and use it to replace the first straight section on the siding, you could face the turnout in either direction (so the curve faces either towards the left or the right) and it would give you two distinctly different layout options for a small yard. You even have enough room that if you faced the turnout towards the left side, and added another turnout after it (also facing towards the left side), you would have a decent little yard space to move cars around without being overly-complicated.

What is the hexagonal piece underneath the loco???


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

These last three posts are describing what I had in mind in far better than my post.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

Shdwdrgn said:


> Actually if you take that dead-end turnout off the mainline and use it to replace the first straight section on the siding, you could face the turnout in either direction (so the curve faces either towards the left or the right) and it would give you two distinctly different layout options for a small yard. You even have enough room that if you faced the turnout towards the left side, and added another turnout after it (also facing towards the left side), you would have a decent little yard space to move cars around without being overly-complicated.
> 
> What is the hexagonal piece underneath the loco???


that's a road crossing piece. I've done a bit more rearranging, but I might have to get a couple of short pieces of track, which means a 3 hour round trip to the train shop, by bus. lol it'll have to wait a few weeks. 
in the meantime, I continue to fiddle with it. 

this is excellent good fun.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

retirementhobby said:


> I've done a bit more rearranging, but I might have to get a couple of short pieces of track, which means a 3 hour round trip to the train shop, by bus. lol it'll have to wait a few weeks.


There's this new thing that's all the rage nowadays, it's called mail-order!  The stuff you order shows up in your mailbox, and there's no three hour ride involved, more time to play with trains.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> There's this new thing that's all the rage nowadays, it's called mail-order!  The stuff you order shows up in your mailbox, and there's no three hour ride involved, more time to play with trains.


Yes but she loses the joy of bus travel.


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## retirementhobby (Jul 18, 2020)

ahh, but the last time I ordered on line there were exchange rates. and shipping costs. and IMPORT TAX. plus, UPS ignored the import tax payment, and nearly sent my package back. it took a LOT to track it down, prove they had been paid, and get delivery. I can't handle that much trauma. lol 

plus, the guy at the train store is cute, and a bit flirtatious. 
so, there's that. 🤭


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