# Menards Customer Service



## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

AFTER ASKING FOR A REFUND THIS IS THE EMAIL i RECEIVED FROM THEM. OPINIONS?????







We are aware of a potential issue with the wiring in our new Beta test non-powered locomotives. Some of the units emit puffs of smoke when track power is applied the first time. We have tested several of these on our in house test track and all have continued to run and work as designed after the initial issue. After our testing we have come up with three potential options for the units.

1. If your unit works, keep it as is and continue to enjoy it.

2. Remove the roller pick-ups (one screw in each) and operate without lights. If you chose this option you can mail us the roller pick-ups and we will send you one of our in-stock train cars of your choice. Simply go to Menards.com/trains and pick one out. You will need to include your name, address, order #, and email address and choice of train car (make sure to tell us the SKU#) and send the roller pick-ups to:

Menard, Inc
Attn: Train Room/Pick-Ups
5101 Menard Drive
Eau Claire, WI 54703

2. Sell it for a $100 or $200 profit on eBay 

Classic Toy Trains Magazine wrote a very nice review about the beta engine, along with potential electrical issues with the non-powered unit. The article can be found here > Menards Santa Fe diesel A-A set beta 4.0 test - Trains

We appreciate your patience as we continue to test and develop new items for our hobby.

Thank you,
Ray


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I got the same email a few minutes ago.

I also asked for a refund and return shipping label. If my powered unit worked, I wouldn't care. I would just fix the non-powered unit with a diode and a new capacitor.

But my powered unit doesn't work. It has no response to track power and I don't have the electronic know-how to determine the problem.

So, for me the options are unsatisfactory and I will let Ray know that.


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## davidone (Apr 20, 2015)

They are usually very responsive to issues. If the powered unit does not work I would request a return. The dummy engine from what I have learned is to cut the Diode out and connect the wires. It is not needed according to Menards.

Dave


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Looking at the email again, it says they are POTENTIAL options. So, it is really a BETA test to see if the options will work.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

I would think that Menards would honor their return policy.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

Yeah, that's strange. You can return anything you buy in the store for a refund within 30 days, so why are these train items different?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Sell it on eBay for a profit?
Did they actually say that?

That is NOT customer service…..


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm stunned at that email with such an obvious issue with the wrong capacitor configuration!


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Weird people. Jack (the dog) needs to have a talk with them and straighten them out.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

Well it is beta.. and you're the testers.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

Severn said:


> Well it is beta.. and you're the testers.


Yeah, that might be the key. Maybe Menards treats these as “test samples” or “custom orders” where there’s no returns.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

People are paying for the “privilege“ of being their testers….nice gig if you can get it….


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Lehigh74 said:


> I got the same email a few minutes ago.
> 
> I also asked for a refund and return shipping label. If my powered unit worked, I wouldn't care. I would just fix the non-powered unit with a diode and a new capacitor.
> 
> ...


It would seem that if the powered unit is DOA the Menards return policy should be honored.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Old_Hobo said:


> People are paying for the “privilege“ of being their testers….nice gig if you can get it….


While the money keeps rolling in.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I sent an email to Ray with the message I posted above. His reply was that if I returned the powered unit, they would repair or replace it. I don’t see replacement happening since the beta units sold out. I’m also wondering about repairs as I didn’t know they were set up for that. I asked for a shipping label to return the powered unit. Also asked for more info on the repair/replacement.


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

They should tell you though under what conditions they'll take back an item etc... Or maybe give you a credit to use on a future purchase. That would be reasonable.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I'll be sending another email to them later today. Obviously I am not happy with there resonse.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Just sell it on eBay for a profit…..lots of people want a defective locomotive…. 😉


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## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

Menards train products are usually wonderful. I once received an HO building instead of the ordered O scale version and they sent me a return label and swapped it out. Other minor damages to buildings received I repaired myself.

Incidentally, and not pleasant to share, last time I checked Menards has an F rating from BBB. I understand this is largely due to unresponsive or unhelpful answers to complaints by their customers. (mostly NOT train stuff) I don't like to post this but that is the way they were rated.


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## dbat77 (2 mo ago)

I am surprised by their attitude and It will be hard to rebuild the loss of trust in my opinion. I will not be buying any Beta test items!


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

If I had ever considered buying a "beta" engine, this episode would end that thought. I gave up on Menards O gauge cars a few years ago because of several issues that made them not worth the $20 price.

1. The metal couplers (looks like they have mostly gone to plastic now?) are too stiff. I found I had to "crash" into them when backing up a train to get the couplers to close.

2. Paint "bleed" on cars that have two paint colors.

3. Poor production quality. The last one I bought, the metal "uncoupling plate" on the truck hung down so low it touched the center rail on any uneven spot (where sections of track are joined). It was not worth the effort to me to take a brand new item and try to finagle a fix. I know others are more forgiving.

I know many like Menards cars for various reasons, hence why they continue to make and sell them. But, the reality is they are not even worth the low selling price (with 11% rebate!) in the open market place. When I came to sell the 9 or 10 cars I had, I averaged around $10/car in selling price. I know there may be some cars that are/were more desireable to the hobbyist and so sell for more, but mine were not in that category.


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## Matt Kramer (Jun 17, 2017)

Some basic things pop in my mind in this situation:

Why doesn't Menards have these so-called "beta" units marked as _*non-refundable*_ on their website? (It doesn't say it on their website as I post this.)

That is a horrible email back from Menards. It makes this whole "beta" testing thing seem pretty shady. In my mind it seems like Menards knows they're getting defective models (and they already know what the defects are) from their manufacturer and are passing them off as "beta" in order to recoup some of their costs; hence their crappy unwritten return policy on them. There's no way in heck their manufacturer's own quality team could've missed the blatantly obvious flaws folks are encountering in these "beta" releases. I don't think the purchasers of these "beta" units are really testing them for Menards; they're just being suckered by Menards into buying the defective units until the final release comes out. It makes me wonder.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

Matt Kramer said:


> Some basic things pop in my mind in this situation:
> 
> Why doesn't Menards have these so-called "beta" units marked as _*non-refundable*_ on their website? (It doesn't say it on their website as I post this.)
> 
> That is a horrible email back from Menards. It makes this whole "beta" testing thing seem pretty shady. In my mind it seems like Menards knows they're getting defective models (and they already know what the defects are) from their manufacturer and are passing them off as "beta" in order to recoup some of their costs; hence their crappy unwritten return policy on them. There's no way in heck their manufacturer's own quality team could've missed the blatantly obvious flaws folks are encountering in these "beta" releases. I don't think the purchasers of these "beta" units are really testing them for Menards; they're just being suckered by Menards into buying the defective units until the final release comes out. It makes me wonder.


I agree. I can't figure out what Menard's strategy is in the O gauge train market. They're not serious about selling trains in their stores. Here's the sum total of the O gauge trains for sale at one of the local stores.










Here's the adjacent aisle dedicated to buildings and spurious HO items.










The other side of the aisle is the "Christmas village" ceramic buildings.

Not many years ago they had several Lionel starter sets for sale at this time of year, and for a few years they had exclusive starter sets for sale. Those are all gone now, just a dozen cars, some track, and buildings.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

KBeyer said:


> I agree. I can't figure out what Menard's strategy is in the O gauge train market. They're not serious about selling trains in their stores. Here's the sum total of the O gauge trains for sale at one of the local stores.
> 
> View attachment 592808
> 
> ...


Electric trains in big box stores are slow, low volume merchandise. Dollar per foot of shelf space is the reason why Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, JC Penney all scrapped their attempt to sell electric trains in their stores. It is actually amazing that Menards even dedicates that much space to slow moving merchandise when it could be more profitable with another line of product. A buddy of mine who is a manager of a Target store told me that when they attempted to sell Lionel electric trains during the Holiday season it was a money losing disaster.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Lehigh74 said:


> I sent an email to Ray with the message I posted above. His reply was that if I returned the powered unit, they would repair or replace it. I don’t see replacement happening since the beta units sold out. I’m also wondering about repairs as I didn’t know they were set up for that. I asked for a shipping label to return the powered unit. Also asked for more info on the repair/replacement.


I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't accepted a few other returns on previous versions for a small handful of reasons. In that case, if they can't fix yours, you may get a replacement chassis that runs, with your blue bonnet shell attached. Just not a version 4.0 chassis, obviously.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

So right off the bat, a reminder that I’m not an O Scaler and I know pretty much zilch about how the scale works.

Like many others I’ve done a ton of business with menards and have come to know some of their oddities.
I.e. They’re pretty good about refunding unopened items. For opened items they do in store credit based on my experience. Some odd decisions they’ve made & stick with are the rebates being a paper snail mail coupon instead of a “membership” card with a scanned “same as cash” balance where the 11% could be added right during checkout. Another oddity is the adapters for downspouts to buried drains one would think to find near the gutters & downspouts. But nope, plumbing dept. Kinda defies logic. I had one special order item that was damaged. I had to contact the manufacturer to do a return, according to Menards. I was fine with that. That actually made more sense to me for a special order.

So applying the above sort of experiences to this situation, and my limited knowledge of O scale and this “beta test” thing…
For starters, they’re sold out so no exchange can be made.
The item is opened so I think it’d be more of a store credit scenario. So if they did that it’d be more like returning the item and waiting for the paper rebate thing… hoping it doesn’t get lost/stolen in the mail. (Members card as mentioned would help here) That option would not be reliable.

I agree the “beta” thing sounds odd from start (name) to finish. I agree it sounds like they knew there was a problem before listing the items; had to decide what to do with the product/investment, and chose a course that seems to be biting them now.
To say “they’ll be learning from mistakes made here” doesn’t help the frustration of customers I know.
And I know not everyone has a nearby Menards. But I wonder if an in-store return would yield different results?

**I think the better choice by them would be to just go through their sales history, refund every credit card that purchased said item the amount. No physical return needed. No request needed. Just do automatic refund. All in-store returns from cash sales getting an in-store credit. Cut their losses, save face with customers.

A side note: I’m not sure who all knows this but during the off season the trains are stored upstairs. I was nosing around, an employee asked if I needed help, and offered to let me go up into their storage area and “shop” around up there. I didn’t though. Being an HO scaler, another oddity is how they decide which items to do in HO? It seems entirely random and structures only so far. But depending on the employee you ask, you might be allowed to go up there and browse year round.
I disagree that they are not serious about trains. They are serious about moving product in general, and while not a high demand item like paint or landscape pavers etc, it’s their brand not some 3rd party. But bottomline is they’re in the business of moving product off the sales floor. But they’re not a hobby shop. Despite what we model railroaders think, in most average minds model trains are just another holiday season novelty item and get treated as such in terms of sales floor space.

EDIT: Meant to note also that based on my experience returning items, those options in the email seem far flung out of character for the company. To the extent that I’m nearly asking “are you sure that’s a legit email from menards?” It’s *that* odd a response compared to their norm.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

OilValleyRy said:


> A side note: I’m not sure who all knows this but during the off season the trains are stored upstairs. I was nosing around, an employee asked if I needed help, and offered to let me go up into their storage area and “shop” around up there.


For what it is worth. All the Menards around us do not require an escort to go to the upstairs storage area. In fact, they have public use stairways and a public use elevator. I have even been directed by store personal as to where the stairs & elevator was located in the store, I am shopping at.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

ERIE610 said:


> For what it is worth. All the Menards around us do not require an escort to go to the upstairs storage area. In fact, they have public use stairways and a public use elevator. I have even been directed by store personal as to where the stairs & elevator was located in the store, I am shopping at.


Yep, same scenario at my local Menards. They store off season product in that area, a lot of outdoor stuff that does not sell during the winter months. And some of the stuff up there will end up in the train aisle come spring and whats left with the trains will end upstairs. I will go upstairs often to see what is hiding up there.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

The whole concept of beta testing is to find bugs. That being said, it appears that Menards took that concept a little too far.

Beta tests are there to find use cases that the development team didn't contemplate when testing.

It's supposed to be the last ditch effort to find problems before going live.

This was not a Beta test. This was poor product development with even worse marketing/ public relations


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, if they are “beta” tests, they seem to be getting worse, not better….goes against what they are trying to accomplish, if in fact that’s what they’re trying to accomplish….

My biggest hope is that the Menards guy is reading these threads….


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I find it strange that a hardware store even sells toy trains. And from I've read here, mostly junk from China.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

MichaelE said:


> I find it strange that a hardware store even sells toy trains. And from I've read here, mostly junk from China.


You ever hear of Madison Hardware, NYC?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I have not.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

MichaelE said:


> I find it strange that a hardware store even sells toy trains. And from I've read here, mostly junk from China.





Big Ed said:


> You ever hear of Madison Hardware, NYC?





MichaelE said:


> I have not.


MichaelE, never show up to a raging campfire with an empty bladder. 

Don't ask me how I know - I've been guilty of that in the past, more than I care to mention.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

MichaelE said:


> I have not.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

After reading some of their history, it seems they were a hardware store in name only for much of their existence, unless you count Lionel hardware.

Looked like a great place for Lionel trains.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Lots of Hardware stores sold trains back in the day. Also many different type of stores sold trains besides hobby shops. 
Madison hardware was sort of a famous seller out of all of them.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Big Ed said:


> Lots of Hardware stores sold trains back in the day. Also many different type of stores sold trains besides hobby shops.
> Madison hardware was sort of a famous seller out of all of them.


In the late 80's I was going to graduate school at night about 3 blocks from Madison Hardware. Got to see it in its twilight years.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Millstonemike said:


> In the late 80's I was going to graduate school at night about 3 blocks from Madison Hardware. Got to see it in its twilight years.


You should have got autographs. 
I never went there, it is hard to believe he knew where everything was in the store.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Big Ed said:


> Lots of Hardware stores sold trains back in the day. Also many different type of stores sold trains besides hobby shops.
> Madison hardware was sort of a famous seller out of all of them.


The only real hardware store I grew up near was a Western Auto on Main Street and Home-Brite on N. Illinois Street in my home town. I don't recall them having any trains, but they did sell firearms, ammunition, and auto parts, as well as a large selection of hardware items and building materials.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That was 52 years ago….are they still around?


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

Well, Menards is really a "Unique" store here in the Upper Midwest of the United States, that is for sure. Hardware, Lumber, Furnature, wood, Windows and Doors, they even sell homes, garages, and factory buildings.
What I am really curious about is what is the name and location of the company making the stampings, engineering the design, assembling, testing, quality control, and boxing the engines to be sold at Menards?
It might add some light to the subject at hand. Menards has been a advocate of helping their mental health communities and are a equal opportuntiy employer. It would answer a lot of questions if these locomotives parts are being made in China and assembled and tested (maybe?) right here in the upper midwest, on the cheap. There are several orginazations up here, like Lambs Farm Industries, who's mission is to help people with developmental disabilities lead productive, happy lives while providing quality industrail services at competitive prices, to manufacturing firms.
So before anyone goes off the rails, might want to consider that your purchase has helped those who bring reasonably cost products into our economy. 10 to one, some engineer dropped the ball specking out the wiring diagram, parts list, and testing procedures.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

My 2 cents on what Menards should do with the defective sets and defective single unpowered A unit. The defective units are out of the scope of Beta Testing operating units.

If the AA set has a defective power unit, a full refund with paid return shipping.

If the AA set has a defective unpowered unit, a full refund with paid return shipping or keep the set and a replacement unpowered unit will be sent at no expense to the purchaser during the next manufacturing run.

If the single A unpowered unit is defective, a full refund with paid return shipping or keep the single A unit and a replacement unpowered unit will be sent at no expense to the purchaser during the next manufacturing run.

Seems like the appropriate resolution, certainly not going to hurt the bottom line of a multi billion dollar corporation that spends multi millions on their auto racing teams.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Bill. I agree. If it’s a beta they would want them back anyway to see what is wrong. If they don’t want it back it’s a ruse, a scam.

Menards guy has been reading all of these comments but it’s been crickets. As usual


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Back in the 50's a lot of stores sold electric trains during the Holiday season. It was a profitable item that typically sold quickly as Christmas presents or a operating train underneath the Christmas Tree. The Lionel Corp really focused their production and sales teams for the 4th quarter selling period.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Yeah, calling this a beta test is laughable, really. Were any of you who purchased these given a way to offer your feedback after using them? If not, this was NOT a beta test, it was more like a pre-release that had terrible QC.

I would term this a pre-release of a product that hasn't had a true beta test.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm happily sitting on the sidelines for this release!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Well I sent another email off to Menards. Waiting for a response but not expecting to much. It looks like theis set could end up as a "Shelf Queen".


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

I lifted this from the interweb:

"Beta testing is an opportunity for real users to use a product in a production environment to uncover any bugs or issues before a general release. Beta testing is the final round of testing before releasing a product to a wide audience. The objective is to uncover as many bugs or usability issues as possible in this controlled setting."

Beta Test


In true beta tests (software development is where it is most common), the users (us) are part of the actual production process, with a very structured method of capturing feedback from us to be used as a "last defense" against bugs found by having actual users find use-cases that their own internal team didn't contemplate. And that, my friends is the rub... 

A product with this may issues, and Menard's own seemingly lack of any structure in this regard, leads me to believe that Menards was just looking to bring in some cash under the guise of a "beta" product release. One can read between the lines here...


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Spence said:


> Well I sent another email off to Menards. Waiting for a response but not expecting to much. It looks like theis set could end up as a "Shelf Queen".


Hi Spence, why a shelf queen, If the powered A unit is operational why not run the kajeebers out of it. Only thing missing is lights in the unpowered A unit which really would not be lighted anyways in the real world.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

JeffHurl said:


> I lifted this from the interweb:
> 
> "Beta testing is an opportunity for real users to use a product in a production environment to uncover any bugs or issues before a general release. Beta testing is the final round of testing before releasing a product to a wide audience. The objective is to uncover as many bugs or usability issues as possible in this controlled setting."
> 
> ...


LOL, I am pretty sure that Menards which is a multi billion dollar company is not to concerned over a few thousand dollars, if that much, as a guise on this beta release.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

They had better do essentially what Bill suggested in post 43. If not, they are likely to lose a few hundred unhappy customers.

Previously when I got defective products from Menards, they would send me a replacement and tell me to keep or trash the defective one. That would make more sense for them since the value of the product (freight cars) was probably less/close to than shipping cost. The value of a defective loco is surely more than a defective freight car, but I’m guessing the cost of shipping and repair comes close.

In the software beta tests that Jeff referred to, I seriously doubt that the software companies charged their testers. I’m thinking the correct option for Menards is to provide a full refund to those with units that are defective (with no return required or with Menards paying for shipping). And if they are going to pursue development of locomotive sales, they should do a more rigorous alpha test with a larger sampling than they have been using…if they have been doing any alpha testing at all.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

seayakbill said:


> LOL, I am pretty sure that Menards which is a multi billion dollar company is not to concerned over a few thousand dollars, if that much, as a guise on this beta release.


 A multi-billion dollar company will look at the entire train department (or whatever they call it) and determine if it is something they should continue. If that department looses money, or even if it is less profitable than other departments, they could have a very small operating budget for product development.

They didn't become a multi-billion dollar company by accident. We can be assured they evaluate this department more than once a year. This department has a budget. And if the department isn't very profitable, and as long as it's not a lost leader, they have a very limited R&D budget. So yeah... a short-sighted "let's call it beta and get some income while we develop this product" isn't too far from "possible," and borders on "probable" circumstances.

But it is just conjecture on my part. Perhaps they are just fat, dumb and happy, lol.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

seayakbill said:


> LOL, I am pretty sure that Menards which is a multi billion dollar company is not to concerned over a few thousand dollars, if that much, as a guise on this beta release.


Correct. The Model Train segment of Menards is an indulgence by the senior Menards owner. Not a lot different than Richard Kughn. If Menards as a corporation wanted to take over O Scale than they could. They could crush Lionel and Atlas BUT it would take resources away from the main focus. So it's an indulgence. Once Mr. Menard passes away the corporation will likely end this folly. 

They are a Wisconsin business. I am in the heart of the Menards market. I have 6 stores within 20 miles and the seasonal display is the same as others noted here. LeMay on one side, an endcap of rolling stock and mixed buildings on the side (HO O). 

Each Christmas I buy some LeMay street lights and have a couple of other items. Not the buildings, which are cast. But those street lights, and trees and power adapter at give away pricing I can't pass up.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Hi Spence, why a shelf queen, If the powered A unit is operational why not run the kajeebers out of it. Only thing missing is lights in the unpowered A unit which really would not be lighted anyways in the real world.





seayakbill said:


> Hi Spence, why a shelf queen, If the powered A unit is operational why not run the kajeebers out of it. Only thing missing is lights in the unpowered A unit which really would not be lighted anyways in the real world.


Bill, that was a joke. I have no shelf queens. That’s why I had the smiley faces. I run all my engines never had a shelf queen before.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

JeffHurl said:


> A multi-billion dollar company will look at the entire train department (or whatever they call it) and determine if it is something they should continue. If that department looses money, or even if it is less profitable than other departments, they could have a very small operating budget for product development.
> 
> They didn't become a multi-billion dollar company by accident. We can be assured they evaluate this department more than once a year. This department has a budget. And if the department isn't very profitable, and as long as it's not a lost leader, they have a very limited R&D budget. So yeah... a short-sighted "let's call it beta and get some income while we develop this product" isn't too far from "possible," and borders on "probable" circumstances.
> 
> But it is just conjecture on my part. Perhaps they are just fat, dumb and happy, lol.


If Old Man Menard says he wants trains in his stores then the trains stay. He is an electric train operator and he is the Big Dog in the family empire. Since it is his company he doesn't report to anyone.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

SF Gal said:


> Well, Menards is really a "Unique" store here in the Upper Midwest of the United States, that is for sure. Hardware, Lumber, Furnature, wood, Windows and Doors, they even sell homes, garages, and factory buildings.
> What I am really curious about is what is the name and location of the company making the stampings, engineering the design, assembling, testing, quality control, and boxing the engines to be sold at Menards?
> It might add some light to the subject at hand. Menards has been a advocate of helping their mental health communities and are a equal opportuntiy employer. It would answer a lot of questions if these locomotives parts are being made in China and assembled and tested (maybe?) right here in the upper midwest, on the cheap. There are several orginazations up here, like Lambs Farm Industries, who's mission is to help people with developmental disabilities lead productive, happy lives while providing quality industrail services at competitive prices, to manufacturing firms.
> So before anyone goes off the rails, might want to consider that your purchase has helped those who bring reasonably cost products into our economy. 10 to one, some engineer dropped the ball specking out the wiring diagram, parts list, and testing procedures.


Not to mention they also sell food right adjacent to the HVAC dept. Pet supplies. Clothing. Apparently they also do class rings and other jewelry but not at any location I’ve been in. It’s like a Meijer store in the sense of being a mixed-breed.

*And I just discovered an hour ago 1” x 24” x 24” foam panels* over by the Garage Storage section. Also *1.5” x 14.5” x 48” panels *back by the trim molding dept. Not sure what the price comparison is to a full 4x8 of 2” foam, but might be worth it for those with a 4 door sedan and no pickup truck. Guess what I’ll be using?


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## Traindiesel (Sep 8, 2015)

For everyone who clamored for Menards to produce a locomotive, their response to a damaged engine is your future.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Traindiesel said:


> For everyone who clamored for Menards to produce a locomotive, their response to a damaged engine is your future.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

seayakbill said:


> If Old Man Menard says he wants trains in his stores then the trains stay. He is an electric train operator and he is the Big Dog in the family empire. Since it is his company he doesn't report to anyone.


Well that changes things, lol!


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when one can't even find a manufacturer capable of putting out a *non*-powered, *dummy* locomotive with *NO* defects! If they can't do that, what makes anyone think they can consistently put out a quality, *powered* locomotive at a budget-friendly price?

My advice to Menard's......................

Forget the powered stuff for now. Start out by offering dummy locomotives in a *large variety* of road names and paint schemes. Totally gutted on the inside. Absolutely *NO* electronics whatsoever, no details other than a simple cab interior. Cast metal frames, trucks, and wheels for weight. Operating couplers (manual, no electronics). If you have to get fancy, put in an incandescent light bulb only (No LED's, 'cuz they require additional electronics to work properly).

If a manufacturer couldn't produce something like this without screwing it up, they REALLY have problems. Look for a different manufacturer.

Kids can push 'em around by hand. Adults can MU 'em with other brands of powered equipment. Have you seen the prices of Lionel non-powered dummy locomotives? ....... Yeeeouch!!!  At any rate, could maybe Menard's offer something like this for $39.95? Or $49.95? Or even $59.95???

Heck, in that price range and a road name/paint scheme that I liked, even  *I*  would pay for the privilege of doing some Beta-testing for 'em! 

That's my yard limit, yours may vary.


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## KBeyer (Jun 29, 2020)

I don't think we can consider Menards a "manufacturer" of anything. They are just a retailer that's big enough to have product with their name on it.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Yeah they were made by some 3rd party, and the defect slipped through quality control. It happens.
Menards is new to locomotives from what I understand, so the probability of screw ups increases.

They’re teething in other words.

Included in that is how to handle said screw ups, a separate issue entirely. 
I’d say they failed on both. 
But what company didn’t have similar problems when they were learning to walk?

I still think he best thing they could do is refund every purchase of that item, no item return necessary. Just for customer satisfaction and retaining. Cut their losses, walk off the pain endured, learn from the mistake, etc. I doubt that they will. But that’s the best move. Not the cheapest, but the best for customers and company alike.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

KBeyer said:


> I don't think we can consider Menards a "manufacturer" of anything. They are just a retailer that's big enough to have product with their name on it.


My apologies for not making things clear for simpletons.

With the trains that Menard's sells stating right on them that they are "Made in China", I thought maybe that might be understood as an "obvious" without having to mention it.

Evidently not. Once again, my apologies to anyone (including Menard's, if need be) that misconstrues my post as insinuating that they (Menard's) are the manufacturer. I absolutely realize that Menard's is NOT the manufacturer, but rather, the retailer for an unrelated manufacturer.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Similar to Amazon….Amazon makes ZERO product….they are merely the middleman that finds product and sells it, for a tidy profit….


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Menards name is on the box and product I presume, so what difference does it make? Aren't all O Gauge/Scale model trains made in China. I think only 3rd Rail finishes them here in the US. I could be wrong.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The MTH Premier steam is still made in Korea.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Haven't heard from Ray since I asked for a return shipping label on Friday so I emailed again to ask for the label and an explanation of how repair or replacement would happen.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I find it hard to believe that the site administration even allows them to sell their junk here after this fiasco.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

MichaelE said:


> I find it hard to believe that the site administration even allows them to sell their junk here after this fiasco.


I think the negativity causes manufacturers to pause and not comment at all or as much. It would be nice if all of the manufacturers designated a spokesperson to comment on product happenings and such, but that creates liability - or so they think - and the result is nothing. 

Menards has had enough time to beta test. I have purchased products on the low end of the price spectrum but I am now selling some of them to fund nicer more detailed O Scale. 

The hobby is expensive, but do we want more WBB level stuff that has a bad quality reputation? Simply because it is "cheap" to buy? 

I think it is crazy to see Menards put these F's out and they sell out within minutes.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

On the outside, looking in here.

Other than the electrical issue (which should be fairly simple to correct), and the lack of fine detail (it's a budget loco), are there any other issues? Part of the benefit of a true beta test is to have real users give feedback as to the "usability," meaning druthers. In other words, say they opted to not put in ditch lights. But then 90% of teh beta testers complained about not having ditch lights... They might consider adding ditch lights. Or maybe the electronic tether from the A unit to the B unit looks bad enough that a majority complain about that. If they think sales would suffer without improving the tether, they will consider making that improvement.

The fact that they have no mechanism to gather feedback proves this is not a beta test.

So... Back to my question: Other than fine details and the capacitor/electronic issue, what else would you change? Perhaps our Menards guy here will see the suggestions and pass them up-stream.


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## Midnight Goat (Dec 19, 2017)

Wow, Menards needs to get out in front of Ray immediately. It sounds like from the (terrible) response e-mail that people might be trying to return functional non-powered units because they smoke on initial startup. Didn't see what your initial message was but it may have been unclear (or more likely misunderstood) that your unit is broken and didn't just smoke. Not your fault and a terrible response but might get further once it's understood that your train is broken.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

Bryan Moran said:


> I think it is crazy to see Menards put these F's out and they sell out within minutes.


LOLOL! It's an "ego" thing. Everyone with an uber-ego wants to be the *first* kid on the block to proudly proclaim that they got bought in on a very limited edition of an inexpensive & potentially-problematic test engine. And thereby be the *first* kid on the block to let everyone else know what's wrong with it!!! 

OTOH, I want to be the *first* kid on the block to PURCHASE a budget-friendly & quality-approved production run in an acceptable (to me) road name and color scheme, and enjoy it problem-free on my O-gauge layout for a long, long time. 

That's my humble ego, yours may vary.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

JeffHurl said:


> The fact that they have no mechanism to gather feedback proves this is not a beta test.
> 
> So... Back to my question: Other than fine details and the capacitor/electronic issue, what else would you change? Perhaps our Menards guy here will see the suggestions and pass them up-stream.


That's part of the issue - Menards is not addressing these concerns "in real time" They have a presence here and on the OGR Forum but it's crickets from Mark the Menards Guy. He is just all sugar plums and happy. Like they have their hands over their ears going "Lalalala" 

The ruse is up guys - NO MORE BETAS.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I was initially quite happy to see that Menard's was going to start offering powered units. I'm afraid that stuff like this and their response has changed my attitude...


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Perhaps there are extenuating circumstances that is delaying a more thorough remedy. If this is being perceived internally as a huge failure, they are probably circling the wagons until they finalize a reasonable plan.

Either this isn't a big enough problem for them, or they have really inadequate public relations leadership.

I'm going to lean toward inadequate public relations, given their history of ignoring BBB complaints. Where there's smoke there's fire.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And initially, they didn’t even know what type of locomotive it was…..touting it as an F3, and giving all the history of the F3….but it’s clearly an FP7….makes one wonder if they really know anything about trains at all, and are just into trains to try to appeal to more people and make more profit….


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hard to believe they're making a ton of money on the trains.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Hard to believe they're making a ton of money on the trains.


Especially from what we have seen….


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

JeffHurl said:


> Perhaps there are extenuating circumstances that is delaying a more thorough remedy.


They are in the midst of the holiday selling season so I think it's a back burner issue, but the part of your statement "Perhaps...." is the issue. We all get on here and speculate and Mark the Menards guy is crickets. All we can do is speculate. That is why more of us are staying out of future Menards purchases. 

This company is huge and the model train market represents such a small percentage of their gross sales they could care less about it's status. It could go away tomorrow and they would not care. 

For example, they dedicate one small shelf to it and an endcap in a store with about 800 shelves.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> Haven't heard from Ray since I asked for a return shipping label on Friday so I emailed again to ask for the label and an explanation of how repair or replacement would happen.


Just got the following reply from Ray.
I guess I don’t quite follow, but I assume as to how the repair process works, it’s very conventionally performed.

And I answered as follows.
Let me clarify.
On 11/11, you said you would repair or replace the loco.
Since the beta 4 AA sets sold out, how would a replacement be possible?
Does Menards have technicians on staff to diagnose the problem? Will they be able to replace the PC board if that is no good? Or will be loco be sent back to China for repair?
Lastly, if I am to return the loco, I want a return shipping label. I don’t think I should have to pay for shipping a defective loco to Menards.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lehigh74 said:


> Let me clarify.
> On 11/11, you said you would repair or replace the loco.
> Since the beta 4 AA sets sold out, how would a replacement be possible?
> Does Menards have technicians on staff to diagnose the problem? Will they be able to replace the PC board if that is no good? Or will be loco be sent back to China for repair?
> Lastly, if I am to return the loco, I want a return shipping label. I don’t think I should have to pay for shipping a defective loco to Menards.


I think Menard's is finding out about supporting a more complicated product that you can't just ship a replacement for.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

I think Menards is taking a bath on all the sales - flawed B unit and some A unit failures.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Judging from that e-mail from the Menards Guy, he just doesn’t get it….or have a clue….


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> Just got the following reply from Ray.
> I guess I don’t quite follow, but I assume as to how the repair process works, it’s very conventionally performed.


Duh!! At least you got a reply. A dumb reply that is really a non-committal non-answer in nature. GMAB


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Maybe they could send dissatisfied customers replacement boards that are properly designed?
Hope they up their QA methods.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

You have to have a QA program in place to be able to "up the QA methods"...


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> Just got the following reply from Ray.
> I guess I don’t quite follow, but I assume as to how the repair process works, it’s very conventionally performed.
> 
> And I answered as follows.
> ...


Got a reply from Ray yesterday. He said he would check.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Deleted….


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

oog2148 said:


> hi guys we have bought a lot of menards track several structures. we got an email said they were out of the locos. guess we lucked out i have a question about a steam engine we have. don,t know who made it, no lionel listing on it. maybe american flyer. no nothing on it. i rember running it when i was a kid and i,m 74 so maybe 45 to 55 manufacture. here is some pics


Welcome to MTF.
You would be better off starting a new thread in the O forum.
Looks like it is O scale?
Maybe a Mod can move your post, this thread is not the place to be.


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## ERIE610 (Jan 19, 2015)

Today I went to our local Menards to pick up a Train Stuff order. I had ordered the last one available nationwide of the UP boxcar 4-piece Dealer Pack. Plus 4ea. of the 1947 Dodge Power Wagon military version. The free shipping to the store arrived several days later than quoted. I Just attributed the lateness to the Holiday Season. Boy was I wrong. When the associate brought out the shipment it was a disaster. The warehouse picker who pulled the order had stuck a 4-piece Dealer Pack label on a single car box and shipped just one UP boxcar. The Power Wagons were in separate boxes and shipped separately not packed neatly in a box. In essence the order was three UP boxcars short. The floor associate had to get his assistant manager involved to make things right. We managed to find one more UP boxcar on the end cap. She let me then choose two other cars from the end cap. I choose the UP Flatcar 2 piece set and a C&NW Boxcar. We had to do some paperwork hoop jumping at the service desk. We had really great service at the local store but not so at the warehouse. This is the first time I have had any hiccups with a Train Stuff order fro Menards and I just hope it is the last.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

ERIE610 said:


> Today I went to our local Menards to pick up a Train Stuff order. I had ordered the last one available nationwide of the UP boxcar 4-piece Dealer Pack. Plus 4ea. of the 1947 Dodge Power Wagon military version. The free shipping to the store arrived several days later than quoted. I Just attributed the lateness to the Holiday Season. Boy was I wrong. When the associate brought out the shipment it was a disaster. The warehouse picker who pulled the order had stuck a 4-piece Dealer Pack label on a single car box and shipped just one UP boxcar. The Power Wagons were in separate boxes and shipped separately not packed neatly in a box. In essence the order was three UP boxcars short. The floor associate had to get his assistant manager involved to make things right. We managed to find one more UP boxcar on the end cap. She let me then choose two other cars from the end cap. I choose the UP Flatcar 2 piece set and a C&NW Boxcar. We had to do some paperwork hoop jumping at the service desk. We had really great service at the local store but not so at the warehouse. This is the first time I have had any hiccups with a Train Stuff order fro Menards and I just hope it is the last.
> 
> View attachment 593197
> View attachment 593198
> ...


Bummer, typically this time of the year DC's hire hundreds of part time seasonal workers that have had a week or less training and then sent out to pick or pack orders. Sometimes you might order a $10 item and end up with a $100 item.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Well it's been 12 days since I last wrote Menards and as yet haven't heard from them. What's happened to customer service out there?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

And I have not heard from Ray since last Thursday. If I don't hear from him by Friday, I will dispute the charge with my credit card company.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Curious if there was anything from Menards up front about these? Did they come with a "these are Beta, and may have problems" type of caveat?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suspect that Menard's didn't know what a can of worms they were opening up with this program!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

JeffHurl said:


> Curious if there was anything from Menards up front about these? Did they come with a "these are Beta, and may have problems" type of caveat?


They were billed as Beta 4, but you do expect them to work if you pay $240. It wouldn't bother me much if just the non-motorized unit was defective, but my motorized unit does not respond to power, so I'm an unhappy customer.
Menard's New Beta 4.0 Test Loco Just Announced | Model Train Forum


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## dbat77 (2 mo ago)

Lehigh74 said:


> They were billed as Beta 4, but you do expect them to work if you pay $240. It wouldn't bother me much if just the non-motorized unit was defective, but my motorized unit does not respond to power, so I'm an unhappy customer.
> Menard's New Beta 4.0 Test Loco Just Announced | Model Train Forum


I totally agree. I was eager to find out if their venture into locomotives was going to be successful.....well, not so much! I did try to order one of their locomotives a while back but I was too late, already sold out. Now, I am glad I was too late.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Well, I called my credit card company today and they will be giving me a refund. It will take two days to show up on my account.
I have a United Frequent Flier Visa card that I’ve had for 36 years and this is the first complaint that I’ve ever had with a merchant. I suppose now I’ll hear from Menards because they’re going to be looking for the train. 😊


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Spence said:


> Well, I called my credit card company today and they will be giving me a refund. It will take two days to show up on my account.
> I have a United Frequent Flier Visa card that I’ve had for 36 years and this is the first complaint that I’ve ever had with a merchant. I suppose now I’ll hear from Menards because they’re going to be looking for the train. 😊


Spence did the powered A unit run OK or was it DOA like Lehigh74 power unit ?


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

seayakbill said:


> Spence did the powered A unit run OK or was it DOA like Lehigh74 power unit ?


“A” was ok


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Just out of curiosity; did they not send out a few sets in advance to magazines or those youtube e-zine channels to do independent reviews on them before being available for purchase? Or are non-manufacturer reviews not a standard procedure in O scale?


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I finally got a response to my request for refund and return shipping label. Twenty days after my return inquiry to Menards and two days after I disputed the charge with my credit card company. Here’s what they said

_Your card issuer has contacted Menards and advised that you would like further assistance with returning your order for a full refund on the purchase due to defective merchandise. I have issued a no cost return on the items below._

Not sure why customer service has been crappy for this. In the past, Menards customer service was excellent.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You might want to cross them off your Christmas List! 😕


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

OilValleyRy said:


> Just out of curiosity; did they not send out a few sets in advance to magazines or those youtube e-zine channels to do independent reviews on them before being available for purchase? Or are non-manufacturer reviews not a standard procedure in O scale?


I don’t recall ever seeing a pre-release magazine / youtube review of model train products. Although magazine reviews of newly released items are common. I do recall that before release of the MTH DCS system there was beta testing. I suspect that there is beta testing of most new electronic/control systems, but other than DCS, I know of no beta testing by the O gauge companies…maybe because most of them have been producing the stuff for years.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When I beta test stuff, I don't pay for it! If I pay for it, it's not a beta test, it's a production product!


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You might want to cross them off your Christmas List! 😕


I don't know if I will do that, but I don't think I will jump on their next beta test announcement.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Spence said:


> Well, I called my credit card company today and they will be giving me a refund. It will take two days to show up on my account.
> I have a United Frequent Flier Visa card that I’ve had for 36 years and this is the first complaint that I’ve ever had with a merchant. I suppose now I’ll hear from Menards because they’re going to be looking for the train. 😊


If I was Menards I'd be too embarassed to ask for it back.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Done Done Done with this Menards nonsense! Went to Menards today and dropped $90 on home improvement items and purchased a 1957 Dodge Sweptside truck for $5, very neat and worth it. End cap had leftover rolling stock only. 

They had 2 of the "Rocket" diner, won't sell any ($111.99) NEVER buying a Menards locomotive. Mark the Menards Guy - how is that for "Beta" testing?????????


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## ljcuccia (2 mo ago)

I have a unique problem with my Beta 4 AA set...there was no remote included. So they are basically useless. I have contacted Ray to see if they could send out a remote and If I would be able to repair it, last I heard from him was "I'll check." That was three weeks ago. Radio silence since, even after I reached out again a week after to follow-up. A couple of days ago, I tried reaching out to online customer service. Zero response. I'm done. Now disputing charge with credit card company as the other poster above. Very frustrating, and they have cured me from wishing to help them further Beta test.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

ljcuccia said:


> I have a unique problem with my Beta 4 AA set...there was no remote included. So they are basically useless. I have contacted Ray to see if they could send out a remote and If I would be able to repair it, last I heard from him was "I'll check." That was three weeks ago. Radio silence since, even after I reached out again a week after to follow-up. A couple of days ago, I tried reaching out to online customer service. Zero response. I'm done. Now disputing charge with credit card company as the other poster above. Very frustrating, and they have cured me from wishing to help them further Beta test.


If we all keep filing claims, they are going to have to respond and do something eventually.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

What will be interesting is - when they come out with this BETA nonsense 5 months from now Will your experiences influence how fast a new batch sells out? 

Probably not.


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I for one will never buy another engine from Menards. I’ll stick with their buildings.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

They are a home and building improvement centre, so that makes sense….


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