# Restoration or Children's toys?



## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

Hi Everyone, 

I recently came into possession of some trains that belonged to my grandfather before he passed away. I believe they were all made 1979 and earlier, as they were wrapped in dated newspapers. They have been sitting in garages in 100 degree temperatures for over 30 years, and have also been through a flood. Despite this, the engines still run, and they are not too rusted. They are, however, very scratched, and missing pieces. I am trying to determine if they could be valuable enough to attempt to restore, or if I can simply give them to my son as toys. I am attaching an album from Flickr, if any of you would be willing to take a quick glance and give me your thoughts, I would be very grateful. I also have a lot of HO trains, still in the boxes, which I can take pictures of as well if anyone has any interest in seeing them. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hello, welcome to MTF.

OOOoooo, I did a quick look and you have some nice items there.
If you want to throw them away I will give you my address. 

The cast might be worth a good penny.
I am going back to look better.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Rainey said:


> I am trying to determine if they could be valuable enough to attempt to restore, or if I can simply give them to my son as toys...


Both options will reduce their value to mostly nothing, IMO. 

How old are the boys and do they have any interest in trains? Being from a family of vagabonds myself I'd suggest keeping them as they are, in a slightly better if possible storage arrangement, until such a time when the kids would appreciate them for what they are now, a connection to their great grand father.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Some quick searching for the windup and I came up with this, 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Locomotive-Train-Mechanical-Wind-Up-Cast-Iron-/290824138857

This is missing the headlight and he is asking close to $800, not to say he is going to get it.
Yours is in much better shape.









Though this is not yours it looks similar.

American Flyer made some windups like this, so did others.

Does it wind up?
Don't over wind if you try.

Going back to your pictures.

I can't save your images to Show/ask you.
Counting left to right the 12th picture of the locomotive, can you see the number on the cab? 
The tender, the 11th picture does it have any markings?


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## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

The boys are one and eleven. The one year old is fascinated by trains, as most boys those age are. And yes, my one year old thinks trains are as much fun flying through the air as they are on a track, so I doubt he is ready for them now. I would also be really interested in setting up a train table myself, if I weren't so limited by space. I still have all the tracks, transformers, scenery, buildings etc. I was considering doing this with the HO models as this seems more space-efficient. Mainly I am trying to figure out what the heck to do with all this stuff. If it has a potential for monetary value, I need to determine whether I want to try to sell everything right now, or store it better, as you suggest, and take the risk of fire/water damage, etc.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The New guy gave good advice, these will only become more valuable as time goes on.
Don't give them to the kids to wreck.

The cast you can just clean up and display? :smilie_daumenpos:

Here is a 256, the first one I found.
E bay is a good place to search and get an ideal of the value.
Though like I said that price doesn't mean that they will get it. It depends on the condition too. If it has been repainted sometimes that takes away from the value.

#256 Lionel, produced 1924- 1930









http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRE-WAR-LIO...L-ELECTRIC-LOCOMOTIVE-1924-1930-/161263507766


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Rainey said:


> The boys are one and eleven. The one year old is fascinated by trains, as most boys those age are. And yes, my one year old thinks trains are as much fun flying through the air as they are on a track, so I doubt he is ready for them now. I would also be really interested in setting up a train table myself, if I weren't so limited by space. I still have all the tracks, transformers, scenery, buildings etc. I was considering doing this with the HO models as this seems more space-efficient. Mainly I am trying to figure out what the heck to do with all this stuff. If it has a potential for monetary value, I need to determine whether I want to try to sell everything right now, or store it better, as you suggest, and take the risk of fire/water damage, etc.



Do you plan to have a fire? Or is a flood coming your way? 

Edit, whoops I reread your original post.

Put them up high then, they already been through the heat. At least it is a dry heat, right?
They would be better in a climate controlled environment.


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## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

big ed said:


> Some quick searching for the windup and I came up with this,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The wind up works, and it is an American Flyer. It says A.F.10 on the side. 

Are you talking about the green and black one? It says 620 E. The tinder only says LIONEL LINES on the side. 

I am particularly interested in the black and red set, (nos. 21-25) because all they say is "MADE IN GERMANY" and "PATENT." Do you think they are American Flyer also?

EDIT: That should read 260E, not 620 E.


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## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

They are so pretty, I hate to put them back in a box in the garage. Maybe it is time to buy a display case of some kind (with a childproof lock!) and let them be appreciated. And no, not planning on a flood or fire, but theft is a concern. Which brings up another question - can these be insured?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Rainey said:


> The wind up works, and it is an American Flyer. It says A.F.10 on the side.
> 
> Are you talking about the green and black one? It says 620 E. The tinder only says LIONEL LINES on the side.
> 
> I am particularly interested in the black and red set, (nos. 21-25) because all they say is "MADE IN GERMANY" and "PATENT." Do you think they are American Flyer also?


Yes 620e OK.

The 21-25 is not Flyers, maybe Ives or someone else. I will have to search.
Does that one have a windup?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I can't really the color from your pictures as they are shadowed out somewhat.

Counting from left to right the 12th picture (the 11th is the tender).
Are there any other markings that you can read? I see something?
Can't tell what it is.

That might be a prewar American Flyer. 620E.
(prewar is before 1942.)

Some better lighting would have helped some when you took the pictures.


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## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

No, no wind-up.


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

Rainey said:


> ...can these be insured?


Sure. Riders on your residence policy are a good way to insure valuables. Theft isn't likely as they would be difficult to flip quickly...the risk would not equal the reward for something like this.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Rainey said:


> They are so pretty, I hate to put them back in a box in the garage. Maybe it is time to buy a display case of some kind (with a childproof lock!) and let them be appreciated. And no, not planning on a flood or fire, but theft is a concern. Which brings up another question - can these be insured?



Sure they can be insured. There are places that do that.
First I would think you need them appraised by a qualified person .

Let the thread sit a while we have a bunch of knowledgeable people who might know exactly what you have and the maker and years of them.

What I am saying is only from searching.
One thing they are not junk! I know that much.

I am trying to figure out the maker of the crane, looks like Lionel, though I can't find one with the control knob in the front like you show.
Or is that rod just laying on the front?


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## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

The derrick is a Lionel 810. I don't know if you saw my earlier edit, but the one your were inquiring about is actually a 260E, not a 620E.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Rainey said:


> The derrick is a Lionel 810. I don't know if you saw my earlier edit, but the one your were inquiring about is actually a 260E, not a 620E.


Nope I didn't.

That helps I couldn't find any 620E.

That is Lionel, nice. The tender too.









In my book it says 260E Steam 2-4-2 (that is the wheel arrangement of the Locomotive, look at your wheels 2 in the front 4 in the middle and 2 on the back that is what is called a 2-4-2 wheel arrangement)

O gauge made 1930-1935

A Black, green or Black frame Good condition $385 Excellent $520
B Dark gun metal body and frame Good $440 X $640

These prices are an estimate from my 2007 guide book.

Depending on the condition they may go for double that or less.
On e bay you never know who is bidding. 

Sometimes the original box goes for more then the trains.
Don't toss them if you have any.
I have seen raggedy boxes go for a good buck.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The 810 was made 1930 - 1942.

A, terra-cotta cab maroon roof Good $170 x $215
B, cream cab, vermilion roof Good $130 x $205

In my 2010 guide book it says A Good $170 x $270
 The B variation are the same prices.

Like I said, theses price are not etched in stone, some wonder about the prices and how they get them.
Your cab looks like someone tried painting it a little?

Is the boom all there and the hook?


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## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

Yes, it's all there, and I don't think it has been painted. I'm not sure how I would be able to tell. Also, my grandfather doesn't seem the type to try to repaint trains.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Our T-man ( aka the Epoxy man :smilie_daumenpos has a thread on one of his redo's for the #810, if you care to look.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=18126&highlight=brass

I think I see a little over spray on yours?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Your 681 is post war (after 1946) that one made in 1950 1951 and in 1953.
Depending on the condition over a $100 bucks and up. Maybe more.









Most of the post war trains are listed here, no prices just a little history on them.
http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_681_loco.htm

They should make up a site for all the pre war stuff.

There are a few sites that you can go to for ID, but most don't list a price as to what they are roughly worth.

You can search e bay with the locomotive numbers and then watch to see what they end up selling for.

Those cast trains, I would just dust/lightly wash off and put them on a shelf. :smilie_daumenpos:

I wish I was given trains like that from my Granddad. better yet my great grand dad.


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## Rainey (Apr 13, 2014)

Thank you for all of your help and advice. I am looking forward to doing some more research on these, and hopefully finding someone to do an appraisal to add them to our insurance policy. I'm also pretty excited to set up the HOs. Sounds like they are pretty worthless, cash-wise, so I feel ok about setting them up for the kids to look at (not touch!)

Thanks again.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Rainey said:


> Thank you for all of your help and advice. I am looking forward to doing some more research on these, and hopefully finding someone to do an appraisal to add them to our insurance policy. I'm also pretty excited to set up the HOs. Sounds like they are pretty worthless, cash-wise, so I feel ok about setting them up for the kids to look at (not touch!)
> 
> Thanks again.


Not so it all depends what HO trains they are.

You have to watch some appraisals too, your best sitting down and figuring what you have and the condition. If they work would be in the appraisal value too.

Take your time and put them in a safe place. They will only get older and most likely worth more with age.

Play with your HO's in the meantime.  
Just watch the little hands, try if you can to explain that trains are not made for flying, and airplanes are. Good luck trying that. 
Maybe buy a wooden Thomas trains set for the little one. Just make sure that they don't get eaten up.
While on the subject watch the HO's for little parts that the youngster can eat.
Do you have track, and transformer?

If you need to know anything ask, like I said we have a vast knowledgeable member list. You should get answers from someone on all of your questions.

I will do a little more searching I am looking for Germany trains right now.
Maybe they are Bing? 
Bing was a German toy company founded in 1863 in Nüremberg, Germany

And I think they painted around windows in the red.

Let the thread sit a while someone will log on and maybe know.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you're looking for actual prices, do an advanced eBay search and check sold listings. That will tell you what items actually sold for.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Just chiming in briefly, Rainy. Those are some very nice trains your grandfather had. A great bit of history to pass down to future generations. That said, these are too old / prized to be used a "beat 'em up" toys for little kids. Adult supervision required.

If you clean them, do so very gently. The aged original finish is well desired, and your trains appear to be in nice shape for their age.

TJ


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