# Loss of traction.... what to do?



## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

I have a new Bachmann 2-6-2 Prairie Steemer that has lost traction. It has what appears to be "rubber" inserts on some of the wheels. Am I to assume that this was intended to provide traction, but for some reason it's now slipping? If so, what can I do to overcome this issue? Maybe oil on them? Rub them with alcohol or solvent?

Thanks.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

You can buy new traction tires. Look up thr brand and model of your train, then look for the traction tires for it.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Dewman1945 said:


> I have a new Bachmann 2-6-2 Prairie Steemer that has lost traction. It has what appears to be "rubber" inserts on some of the wheels. Am I to assume that this was intended to provide traction, but for some reason it's now slipping? If so, what can I do to overcome this issue? Maybe oil on them? Rub them with alcohol or solvent?
> 
> Thanks.


Dewman1945;

Those rubber items are called "traction tires" and as you might suspect from the name, they are indeed there to increase traction. It would be unusual for a traction tire to rotate around the wheel as you speculate. Not impossible, but weird. Traction tires are typically very tightly stretched over the wheels.
Definitely DO NOT put any sort of oil on them! Many oils will damage the traction tires permanently. Even the plastic compatible oils we use won't help. They would only lubricate the surface between the traction tire and the wheel, which would make it easier for the tire to slip, not harder. Oil will also get on the outside of the traction tire and if you have ever driven over an oil spot on a road, you'll know that it makes the tires slip. Oil will also help to quickly form the dreaded "black goop" that is the bane of model railroaders. Black goop forms on rails and wheels, and interferes with electricity trying to get from the rails up into the wheels to make your train run.
Also do not use any solvent stronger than alcohol on your train. Many solvents will damage plastic. Even alcohol can sometimes damage the paint job. Use alcohol only on the metal wheels and rails.

Try this test. Hold the locomotive in one hand and try to turn the traction tire around on the wheel with your other hand. This will either verify, or disprove, your theory about the tire slipping. Do the same for each traction tire.
I doubt you will be able to rotate the tire on the wheel, at least not without applying a whole lot more force than a model locomotive can. If you can move the tire easily, put only ONE TINY DROP of super glue on a part of the wheel/tire assembly that is easiest to get to. Be very, very, careful not to get glue on any of the moving parts, or they will quickly, and forever, become non-moving parts. 

The more likely reason for loss of traction is goop on the outside of the traction tires. Put some isopropyl alcohol on a paper towel, and lay it across the track. Then run the locomotive up onto the towel. The front "drivers" (the bigger wheels) should be on the towel, and the rear drivers still on the track to pick up power. This should let the front wheels spin against the towel and produce streaks of black goop on the towel.
Turn the loco around so that the rear drivers are on the towel (use a clean spot) and let them spin the goop off themselves and onto the towel. If you slide the towel along the track, you will probably get more goop off the rails and onto the towel. With both the traction tires, and the rails, goop free, traction should improve.

You can also try laying some kind of small weight (small fishing sinker, coins, etc.) on top of the locomotive. Model locomotives are usually very much lighter than they should be for maximum traction. If external weights help, then it would be nice to be able to add weight internally, but that's seldom easy, or even possible.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

traction fan said:


> Dewman1945;
> 
> Those rubber items are called "traction tires" and as you might suspect from the name, they are indeed there to increase traction. It would be unusual for a traction tire to rotate around the wheel as you speculate. Not impossible, but weird. Traction tires are typically very tightly stretched over the wheels.
> Definitely DO NOT put any sort of oil on them! Many oils will damage the traction tires permanently. Even the plastic compatible oils we use won't help. They would only lubricate the surface between the traction tire and the wheel, which would make it easier for the tire to slip, not harder. Oil will also get on the outside of the traction tire and if you have ever driven over an oil spot on a road, you'll know that it makes the tires slip. Oil will also help to quickly form the dreaded "black goop" that is the bane of model railroaders. Black goop forms on rails and wheels, and interferes with electricity trying to get from the rails up into the wheels to make your train run.
> ...


Maybe I misspoke.... I don't think the rubber tire is rotating on the wheel, it's the rubber "driver" wheel that's slipping on the track. The train is new..... like two days old, so I don't think it would be worn out. It worked fine, then all of a sudden, she won't hardly pull itself out of it's own way. It acts like the thing is oily, but my other steamers don't act like it..... but, they have steel wheels. I tried adding weight, but nada. Live and learn.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

The loco may be new to you but may have been sitting on a shelf somewhere for some time and it affected the traction tire. It's called New Old Stock or NOS.


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## kilowatt62 (Aug 18, 2019)

As Gramps said: “new old stock.” 
Those Bachmann traction tires will dry rot just sitting in the box. 
Go to their website and order a new set and be done with it.
Anything else is an effort in futility. No disrespect implied.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Check to be certain you aren't missing a tire on the othe side of the locomotive on either the direct opposite side or on one of the other drivers.

Wheels that use a traction tire have a groove for the tire to sit in when prperly installed. If you are missing a tire, this groove will instead contact the rail possibly lifting the other side of the locomotive enough that the other tire will lift from the rail almost imperceptibly.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Dewman1945 said:


> Maybe I misspoke.... I don't think the rubber tire is rotating on the wheel, it's the rubber "driver" wheel that's slipping on the track. The train is new..... like two days old, so I don't think it would be worn out. It worked fine, then all of a sudden, she won't hardly pull itself out of it's own way. It acts like the thing is oily, but my other steamers don't act like it..... but, they have steel wheels. I tried adding weight, but nada. Live and learn.


Interesting. Since the Bachmann loco worked initially (I'm assuming it could move itself and some cars) and no the drivers slip on the rails, there are really only two things I can think of, (assuming the driver wheels are actually,turning consistently)
Either the Bachmann's wheels have something on their outsides that is causing them to slip, or the rails do, or both. Since your other locomotives do not slip their wheels on the same track, that points right back at the Bachmann loco's wheels. Have you tried cleaning them with the alcohol dampened paper towel laid across the track? 
Even new wheels get dirty very quickly, and if there is oil on them it may not be obvious to the eye. Model railroaders have a policy, If it won't run right, start by cleaning the wheels & the rails with alcohol, then try running again. Usually this works, and when it doesn't, we start checking deeper, depending on the symptoms. However since cleaning is easy, and often effective, we try that first.
If you find that something is really wrong with your locomotive, you may be able to return it, either to the store/online dealer where you bought it, or directly to Bachmann. 
Bummer! sorry your having such a bad experience with your first train.

Traction Fan 😕


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Just wondering ... how many cars are you trying to haul?

A 2-6-2 steamer -- although nicely detailed -- is probably kinda light to begin with, and even with the traction tires, I wouldn't expect it to be "great puller".

It's the same way with quite a few other steam locos -- look great, but sometimes pulling power is on the weak side (without adding weight, etc.).

If you want an engine that will pull nearly every car you have, look at a "new old stock" Proto 2000 SD7 or SD9...


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

J.Albert1949 said:


> Just wondering ... how many cars are you trying to haul?
> 
> A 2-6-2 steamer -- although nicely detailed -- is probably kinda light to begin with, and even with the traction tires, I wouldn't expect it to be "great puller".
> 
> ...


Not pulling many cars at all....about 3 or 4 . I've solved most of the problem by cleaning the traction tires, but some of it is just poor design. Can you tell me.... what is a Proto 2000 SD 7 or SD 9? What brand. How do I tell if it's NOS or not? I'm green as a gourd, so.... I need all the help I can get. Thanks for any and all help that;s offered.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The Proto 2000 SD7’s and 9’s are diesels, not steam, and were made by Life-Like….and Life-Like has since been bought by Walthers…..don’t know if Walthers has made any under the new “Proto” name yet, so any that you come by now are either used, or New Old Stock….


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

Old_Hobo said:


> The Proto 2000 SD7’s and 9’s are diesels, not steam, and were made by Life-Like….and Life-Like has since been bought by Walthers…..don’t know if Walthers has made any under the new “Proto” name yet, so any that you come by now are either used, or New Old Stock….
> View attachment 574735


Thanks for the information. The most reliable locomotive I have is a Lifelike diesel. It's really quiet and very strong. I don't know how to tell if it's one of those you mentioned or not, but I wish all locomotives I get are half as good. I swear, that little thing will pull a brick!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Post a photo of it, and I’ll bet someone here could tell you exactly what it is…..


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Dewman1945 said:


> Thanks for the information. The most reliable locomotive I have is a Lifelike diesel. It's really quiet and very strong. I don't know how to tell if it's one of those you mentioned or not, but I wish all locomotives I get are half as good. I swear, that little thing will pull a brick!


Proto 2000 (and it's less detailed siblings Proto 1000) were model lines produced by Lifelike Trains. They were fine locos. Lifelike sold it's train business to Walthers in 2005... there were some trains branded "Lifelike Proto 2000 by Walthers") early on (first year or so after acquisition), but then they renamed the line Walthers Proto. Proto 1000 became Walthers Mainline. Still very good locos. But anything with the "LifeLike" name on it is about 15 or more years old at this point, so it would definitely classify as NOS. But yeah, I'll buy those locos or their Walthers equivalents any time.

Comparing one of those to an old Tyco really isn't a comparison. It's like a Corvette vs a Fiesta. No contest. They cost more, but it's worth it.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Get used to spending money in this hobby. It comes with the territory.


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

CTValleyRR said:


> Proto 2000 (and it's less detailed siblings Proto 1000) were model lines produced by Lifelike Trains. They were fine locos. Lifelike sold it's train business to Walthers in 2005... there were some trains branded "Lifelike Proto 2000 by Walthers") early on (first year or so after acquisition), but then they renamed the line Walthers Proto. Proto 1000 became Walthers Mainline. Still very good locos. But anything with the "LifeLike" name on it is about 15 or more years old at this point, so it would definitely classify as NOS. But yeah, I'll buy those locos or their Walthers equivalents any time.
> 
> Comparing one of those to an old Tyco really isn't a comparison. It's like a Corvette vs a Fiesta. No contest. They cost more, but it's worth it.


I hooked up 14 cars to the Lifelike diesel today and it pulled them without even breaking a sweat. And it did it on a layout with nothing larger than 18" radius (one is a 15" radius) turns and three Bachmann remote turnouts. You know.... the ones that I was warned about? Well, I must be one lucky old coot, because they worked flawlessly EVERY TIME, as long as I weeded out two of my 14 cars. In my 14 car train, some of the cars were quite long, so I was really surprised to see them work so well on such tight turns. 

Is it legal to have this much fun inside the city limits?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Not only legal, but also encouraged….


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

CTValleyRR said:


> Proto 2000 (and it's less detailed siblings Proto 1000) were model lines produced by Lifelike Trains. They were fine locos. Lifelike sold it's train business to Walthers in 2005... there were some trains branded "Lifelike Proto 2000 by Walthers") early on (first year or so after acquisition), but then they renamed the line Walthers Proto. Proto 1000 became Walthers Mainline. Still very good locos. But anything with the "LifeLike" name on it is about 15 or more years old at this point, so it would definitely classify as NOS. But yeah, I'll buy those locos or their Walthers equivalents any time.
> 
> Comparing one of those to an old Tyco really isn't a comparison. It's like a Corvette vs a Fiesta. No contest. They cost more, but it's worth it.


I recall reading on this forum complaints about Lifelike locos having issues with the gears cracking, if I remember correctly, and this carried over to the Walters take over. Was that a minor problem that got corrected?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Dewman1945 said:


> I hooked up 14 cars to the Lifelike diesel today and it pulled them without even breaking a sweat. And it did it on a layout with nothing larger than 18" radius (one is a 15" radius) turns and three Bachmann remote turnouts. You know.... the ones that I was warned about? Well, I must be one lucky old coot, because they worked flawlessly EVERY TIME, as long as I weeded out two of my 14 cars. In my 14 car train, some of the cars were quite long, so I was really surprised to see them work so well on such tight turns.
> 
> Is it legal to have this much fun inside the city limits?


Drewman1945;

I try not to argue with success. If your train made it through your Bachmann turnouts, congratulations. Many others have reported far worse results.
By "worked flawlessly every time" Did the train repeatedly make it through both routes of the turnout after you had thrown the turnout, from one route to the other electrically? 
However, I still think you would be better off, in the long run, to buy a better brand of turnout for any future purchases.

The two cars you "weeded out" may have wheels that are "out of gauge" meaning their wheels are either too far apart on their axles, or too close together. You can check wheels, track, and many critical areas on turnouts, with an NMRA track gauge. A gauge costs about $6 and is an excellent investment. You can order one from www.modeltrainstuff.com or www.trainwold.com 

Keep Having Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

traction fan said:


> Drewman1945;
> 
> I try not to argue with success. If your train made it through your Bachmann turnouts, congratulations. Many others have reported far worse results.
> By "worked flawlessly every time" Did the train repeatedly make it through both routes of the turnout after you had thrown the turnout, from one route to the other electrically?
> ...


So here's my take on the Bachmann turnouts. A few times, when I was young and stupid, I drove when I was extremely drunk. I made it to my destination without having an accident or causing one... but that doesn't mean that driving drunk is OK.

My son's first layout was made using LifeLike PowerLoc track, which is essentially a clone of the Bachmann (or vice versa... I think it was on the market first). Those turnouts worked OK at first too, but after a while (may have been a year or more), they started to wear, and almost nothing would go through them without picking the points. The solenoids eventually threw the points so hard that they would bounce back to a centered position. Then one of the remote operators died altogether. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the this happening with the Bachmann ones too.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Gramps said:


> I recall reading on this forum complaints about Lifelike locos having issues with the gears cracking, if I remember correctly, and this carried over to the Walters take over. Was that a minor problem that got corrected?


Yes, some of them did have that issue -- it continued for a few months into the Walthers era... probably while they were using up LifeLike inventory. Hasn't been a problem in more than a decade now.

And yes, it's annoying, but about a 15 minute repair job. Walthers used to send you a free gear set to replace it if that happened. I don't know if they still do. Doesn't keep me from buying LifeLike or early Walthers, though.


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

traction fan said:


> Drewman1945;
> 
> I try not to argue with success. If your train made it through your Bachmann turnouts, congratulations. Many others have reported far worse results.
> By "worked flawlessly every time" Did the train repeatedly make it through both routes of the turnout after you had thrown the turnout, from one route to the other electrically?
> ...


When I said, "flawlessly," that EXACTLY what I meant. I was as surprised as anyone else, after reading all the negative comments. I was thinking I had thrown my money away.... but I had already ordered two of them.... so.... I guess I just lucked out. I ran the train in both directions, over and again, trying to cause a malfunction, but other than the couple of cars I had to weed out, I was thrilled. Turnouts create one heck of a lot more variation than crossovers. I was like a kid at Christmas when I got the turnouts hooked up and they worked properly. Is it normal to go to bed and not be able to go to sleep because you're thinking of a new layout? No one told me about these "side effects" of this hobby!


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

Old_Hobo said:


> Post a photo of it, and I’ll bet someone here could tell you exactly what it is…..


Here's a photo of the Lifelike Delaware & Hudson. Got it on eBay for about $20.00.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That is an EMD GP38-2…..old Life-Like….


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Yes, some of them did have that issue -- it continued for a few months into the Walthers era... probably while they were using up LifeLike inventory. Hasn't been a problem in more than a decade now.
> 
> And yes, it's annoying, but about a 15 minute repair job. Walthers used to send you a free gear set to replace it if that happened. I don't know if they still do. Doesn't keep me from buying LifeLike or early Walthers, though.


Walthers sells wheel sets with gears to replace the cracked ones….









Or, you can buy Athearn gears and replace them on the axles, your choice….


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

Old_Hobo said:


> That is an EMD GP38-2…..old Life-Like….


Is that a good thing, or is it just another old HO locomotive? I know very little about these things, but this one really performs well. Quiet, strong.... and it will go very, very slow if I so desire. And, it will take 15" radius curves like a champ. No problems at all. I had to learn the hard way about how to pick it up. I broke one of the railings, had to glue it back on.... and broke it AGAIN.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Life-Like GP-38-2 1975


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## Dewman1945 (Jan 5, 2022)

MichaelE said:


> Life-Like GP-38-2 1975


Dang, that thing is vintage.... like me.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> Walthers sells wheel sets with gears to replace the cracked ones….
> View attachment 574859
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, they sell them. I was aware of that. Also NOT what I said. I said they used to SEND them, free of charge. It's the freebies that may have changed, not the availability of parts.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

“Used to” were the key words there….I was just trying to help people in the present…. 😆


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Old_Hobo said:


> “Used to” were the key words there….I was just trying to help people in the present…. 😆


If I had a Lifelike with cracked gears (many I should say, "If I got another one"), I'd ask for a freebie before paying money.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Good luck with that….the cracked ones were made back then by Like-like, when they were still Life-Like, so Walthers is under no obligation to send parts for free anymore….if you try it, please tell us how that turns out for you….


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