# A.C. Gilbert 322 Hudson DCC Project



## AF-Doc'

I hope I get this right, fingers are crossed.

Scope: To converting a Gilbert 322 to DCC operation with motion, sound and smoke. In addition to convert a single Gilbert S gauge circular track of 116 feet from the present AC operation to DCC.

Greetings, I hope to share this conversion project with the forum and ask for any and all inputs that you might offer. I thought it might be good to have all this information in one posting for easer comments. It has been suggested here on the forum that I have a well defined plan in place to start and I agree 100 % and thank you all for your comments so far that are helping to structure the project.

So far I have broken down the work into two areas, although subdividing into more might be better, one being the 322 and the other the rail system. The 322 is currently on the bench waiting for parts from Port Lines for the chassis re-bushing. I have tried to think of some of the items the locomotive will need and any other things you think of please comment. The DCC components listed here are the extras from my HO layout build. They could change if needed. To date the planning stage is foremost and your comments are welcome.

Note: Thanks to Carl and Robert for the cam and chassis layout concept. A MUST SEE > www.tuveson.com, > TMCC for S, > Robert Buckner's Custom AF 0-8-0 and Northern.

Gilbert 322 Hudson Engine work needed:
Chassis re-bushing, can motor conversion, cam fabrication and install for chug input, Motion / Sound decoder install, MTH smoke unit interface & install, final 322 assembly and testing.

Components on hand:
322 Hudson locomotive, S-n-S can motor stall current ( 1.83A at 13.8 vdc ), MTH small O smoke unit & power pcb being shipped.

Components to order:
Decoder: TBD, looking at a Digitrax DH465 (4 Amp) with a SFX006 sound bug,
MTH Smoke unit interface? Decoder dependent? 
Cam switch: On hand.
Components in fab: The cam, it's drawings are being produced for local 3D fabrication


Gilbert S gauge tract work needed:
Power districts track isolation, Pull wires, 14 gauge?, Order PM42 & Edge Connector, install the S gauge program track, update JMRI software, 

Power distribution and power district components:

Main power supply. On hand. Digitrax PS2012E. Settings? G = 23 V at 12 A, HO = 16V at 16 A, N = 13.8 at 20A 
Command and control systems. On hand. Digitrax DB150 or DCS100 rated at 5 amp.
District circuit breakers. To order. Digitrax PM42 4 Independent power sub-divisions. 
Card Edge Connector. To order. Digitrax cardedge con 44 3-Pack card edge connector. 
Isolated programming track &
Programmer On hand. Digitrax PR3 or PR4 with JMRI software. 
Throttle & Interface On hand. Digitrax DT400 Throttle & UR90 or
DT400R Throttle & UR91.

My thoughts for far and thank you for reading.


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## AmFlyer

Great Post Doug. You have organized this well and have a planned implementation laid out.
I did not see a possible speaker listed. About three months ago Ed Goldin repaired one of my TMCC E8's. He put in a new speaker he had just identified. The sound quality and volume is far better than the prior speakers in my E8's. You might ask him about the new speakers he is using. Carl Tuveson just posted a video of his new Legacy Berkshire. The Legacy engines have good speakers and custom molded enclosures. Carl already modified his new Berk to add a low pass filter in line before the speaker. The sound is definitely improved. I can see I will be sending my two new Berkshires to Carl for the low pass filter and the pilot truck mod. For your Hudson, the tender is relatively tight. You may need to drill a few holes in the tender chassis for the sound.
One suggestion on the track wiring. It sounds like there will be a 14ga set of buss/feeders around the layout. Assuming the maximum length of a drop is around 2' to attach to the buss then use 16ga for the drops. It is easier to solder and the voltage drop is negligible. 
For the wiring between the tender and engine even though it will only be 2 wires I recommend you use the superflex wires. Gilbert steam engines are different than Lionel and most HO in that the engines do not have any power pickup, the tender does that. The tender trucks need to be closely inspected to assure the axle holes are not worn. If they wear, the bottom of the side frame can touch the rail and short out on turnouts. Not good for the DCC system. I think Ed Goldin has a repair for the worn axle hole problem. Also, be sure to use tender trucks that have the sliding pickup shoes. These are essential for good DCC pickup continuity.


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## AF-Doc'

Tom, good bring up on the speaker. I'll check with Ed and with Carl about the speaker and filter. Regarding the track wiring,
I thought to set up 4 even rail length districts and bring a 14 ga wire from each one back to the PM42 at the C&C and power supply location as it would be a focal point for the individual district breakers. I have read that some builders have soldered jumpers across each rail section connection to remove any connector pin issues??
The locomotive wiring with superflex wires is good thinking although there may be more than 2 as the smoke unit will need some as well. Do you know a source for superflex wires?
Good points on the tender, Sound holes for sure and I'm going to add ed's bushing to the axles. This tender has the sliding pickups already so that is covered.
Thank you for the additions Tom.


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## AmFlyer

I bought mine from PortLines, Flyernut may have other sources. I suppose you could also get a roll of it on eBay or Amazon.
The issue with conductivity is why flex track is great for permanent layouts. A drop can be soldered to each 3' piece and the pins are not needed for electrical purposes. With 10" track sections that is a lot of soldering. One reason I use the conductive, anticorrosion grease on all my track joiner pins. Its a risk decision if you want to solder jumpers across all the track joints but if you are only connecting one feeder per power district I think you will have to do it. I have a feeder about every 10' to minimize voltage drop through the rails.


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## goldinhands

FYI Soundtraxx has the TSU-4400 and it is a 4 amp which I think would work better. You may want to look at that before you make up your mind.


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## AF-Doc'

my districts broke into 4 sections of 29' based on the PM42 which is a 4 channel breaker system. I think that if I do solder on jumpers it would be the best in the long turn. I want the rails to be solid and not a constant issue. Hi Ed, thanks for the note on the TSU 4400 I have a request in to Soundtraxx regarding the smoke unit control and if the 4400 would work. We shall see. If not then the cam switch might just be the initial ticket for the fan drive. Wow that 4400 is pricy it must perk coffee as well.
Some updates:
The Digitrax PM 42 is on order as well as the YC53 Y power jumper for the main power supply. Ed's Fat Boy speaker and the Bushing kits for the tender are also ordered. Part Numbers were supplied for the MTH smoke units, the fan motors and the Wick Material. Thank you Ed.
The drawings are almost finished for the 4 lobe cam which will now be sized to add an additional switch for the smoke fan control just in case.

The 322 cast pieces are going through paint removal and brushing, the last piece is the tender. It seems that all of the cast tenders that I have stripped take longer? I use Purple "Super Clean" and "Purple Power" for the castings and Simply Green for plastic shells. Most can be found at an auto parts store. Use with CAUTION and water flush well when you finish both the castings and yourself.

The Initial Cleaning.









After a light brushing.










Prime and paint for these parts when the tender casting is finished.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and help.


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## goldinhands

I have used the Purple Super Clean on plastic and it seemed to work OK for me.......is there some reason you are not using it? Yeah I know the 4400 is on the expensive side and will be interesting to see what they say.


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## AF-Doc'

I too have used it on plastic shells and it works good, just don't don't leave the shell in very long and I found that I needed to stay with the shell until the paint is gone. I did find with some GP7 shells that I left in too long that the plastic softened a little. If you know how to make it work it's a good product. Simply Green is much more forgiving but takes 2x the time.

I'm still waiting on Soundtraxx to reply although Digitrax did reply that they don't have a decoder that will support the smoke unit as well as the higher current for the motor. So................. Maybe we try the TSU4400 anyway.


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## AF-Doc'

Following some of the great comments here regarding the tender, here is some of the tender chassis prep work that was completed. Thanks for the comments on the tender.

Bushing upgrade that corrects worn side frame axle openings. and improved connections of the pickup components.

Initial bushing components:









90% IPA cleaning of the side frames.









Bushing Install: A drop of Cyanoacrylate in the bottom of the side frame and then a drop on top of the bushing.
Using a Q tip to install the bushing. Once in press and hold for several seconds. Allow drying time for all the bushings










Removing the old axles: The plastic wheel pulls off the axle easy. A block of 2x4 with a drill hole and steel washer will allow the axle to be lightly tapped down through the metal wheel.










Install the tapered axle in the metal wheel and use the block to hold the wheel while lightly tapping the axle in. Stop when you reach the end of the splines on the axle. Place the plastic wheel on the block and again lightly tap the axle in. Check that the axles protrude evenly out both of the wheels. Use the New Dime trick to set the wheel spacing.










Improving the pickups connections. A little solder on the copper pickup and center rivet. The side of the shoe box was also tack soldiered to the truck.










Next step is the Sound decoder and speaker installation. Thanks for all your comments.
The bushing kits will work on all rolling stock as well. You can see them here. www.goldinhands.com 
Click on "American Flyer Wheel Upgrade Kit". Thanks again Ed.


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## AmFlyer

Good looking truck. That should have perfect electrical pickup from the track.


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## AF-Doc'

Thanks Tom, Teamwork


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## goldinhands

I have two thoughts.....I don't know what you are using to protect the electronics in your engines but look at the PSX AC and here is the website








DCC Specialties PSX1-AC 3 and 2 Rail Intelligent Circuit Breaker


The PSX1-AC is for AC power users such as Lionel and MTH PSX-AC Manual (PDF)Model Railroader PSX ReviewPSX-AR-AC Auto Reverser Circuit BreakerPSX Hints & TipsPSX vs. OnGuard ComparisonSonalert for PSXTTX Screw terminals For PSXPSX & PSX-AR Manual




tonystrains.com





Second thought is not to solder the track together as it needs to contract and expand with the temperature and humidity in the house. I had a customer's track that actually buckled account all the joints were solder.


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## AmFlyer

Ed, the AC versions of the PSX boards do not have breakers included on the board. Therefor the PSX1-AC is needed if the power supply does not have circuit protection. Since I use ZW-L's they provide more than adequate protection, the foldback feature is amazing. I think the DCC version of the boards have breakers included on some of the boards. They are on the PSX-AR. Doug should verify this because it is easy to do quick damage to electronics with no fast acting circuit protection.
The idea of leaving some track joints unsoldered is a good one if the layout is in unconditioned space like a garage, attic or basement. What I find interesting is the affect humidity changes have on the layout. Since my layout is in a former bedroom the temperature range is 65F to 80F, not enough to make any observable changes in the solid NS rails. However the humidity can range from a low of 15% during a Santa Anna condition to 80% when cool ocean air blows in. This causes the wood layout structure to shrink and swell. When the humidity drops visible gaps open up between backdrop panels and the 4' wide swing gate operates with no interference. At high humidity levels the gaps close in the backdrop and the swing gate expands to a tight friction fit.


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## AFGP9

Tom my basement layout is humidity controlled by way of a whole house dehumidifier so I have seen no real changes in anything. I have found a new use for my racing days weather station equipment which monitors temp, humidity and barometric pressure. Nice back up to check things. I have no soldered track joints. Humidity was my main concern when I thought of building my layout in the basement so shortly after buying my house I had the whole HAVAC system replaced. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

We only need heat or A/C about 3 months in a typical year, hence the humidity swings.


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## AFGP9

I am aware of no need for heat but the lack of A/C surprises me. Must be because of the ocean air? I can see how you would have the humidity sings. I can remember when I lived in Arizona we could get by with a swamp cooler which is nothing more than a very large dehumidifier mounted on the outside of houses or on the roof of older houses. If you had grass, (I can't imagine why), the water from the cooler could water the grass if you attached a garden hose to it and moved it around. You could get cool house air circulation up to a certain temperature then it was A/C time. Those coolers were good in the spring and fall. months. About 3-4 months of the year. By needing heat or A/C only about 3 months a year, that must really make your utility bills very cheap. I wish. 

Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

Greetings, If you have a moment take a look at the Digitrax PM42 Quad Power Manager. It has adjustable short circuit management for up to four districts. It is fed from the Command Control unit, DB150, which has short circuit protection. The DB150 is fed from the PS2012E which also has over-current protection. I'm hoping that the PM42 which feeds the districts will be what is needed.


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## mopac

Pm42s will do the job. Great protection and management. I have a couple of them. Not hooked up cause the layout is not built. I only have a 4X8 DC layout right now. With that 8 amp command station, PM42s are a must. Initional plan was an around the basement walls HO layout. Sticking a S scale layout in there also has changed my plans. When I was planning my dream HO layout S scale was nowhere in the vision. Now I will need to do reverse loops. AR1s will be used on the loops. And I might try to squeeze an O scale layout
somewhere.I like all scales. I like model trains.


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## AmFlyer

Doug, I looked at the PM42. First, that device is a bargain for what it does. I think it would be great to use on an S gauge layout depending on the behavior of one feature. Here goes; they use the term sub-districts, likely because it just subdivides the current from one source. I could not tell from the website description if the PM42 divides the input into 4 equal parts or if it lets each output draw as much as needed from the input up to the rated capacity of the source. For example if the source is an 8A booster does each output get 2A max or can one output draw all 8A if needed? If the outputs are fixed at 1/4 of the input it will not work for S gauge. If the outputs can draw as high a percentage of the input as needed then its a go.


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## mopac

Each of the 4 districts can be adjusted separately. Does that answer your concern? Each district can be set to blow
at say 2 amp, or 3 amp, whatever.


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## AmFlyer

I see, that was simple. Just set each of the outputs to 4A and all should be fine.


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## AF-Doc'

Tom, that is a great comment about the PM42. A question is off to Digitrax for clarification. I was looking at page 7 of the Instruction regarding the wiring of the 44 pin edge connector and to me it looked like the booster fed the relay which fed the sub district. The input wiring is in parallel which caused me to think that any district could draw what it needed up to the limit of the booster. I quoted your question to Digitrax as it is very clear. I'm waiting on a reply. Nice

Oh, other news...A MTH smoke unit arrived today with the power supply board. I may have an option to acquire a puffer board that will control the MTH unit from the cam switch and the rails. Fingers crossed.

The TSU4400 decoder does not have a cam input for chug or smoke timing and therefore is not going to be used. Although I'm sure it has great sound.

A Digitrax DH465 mobile decoder coupled with a SFX006 sound bug is now the top choice as it has the cam input and is 4 amp. Plus it matches the rest of the DCC component's for ease of programing the cv's.

Work is on going regarding the rails, I think the rail connections will be soldered.
Thanks to everyone for advancing this project....


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## AF-Doc'

The PM42 allows for programing of the trip current in 1.5 amp steps up to 12 amps per output. In addition it allows for programing the sensitivity for the trip response as Slow, Standard, Fast and Faster based on layout usage....Slow response for hi current loads, standard for HO loads, faster for Ho & N and faster for use with auto-reversing sections. Its nice that you can set the auto-reverse independently for each of the 4 outputs. Still waiting on Digitrax to reply.

The MTH Smoke unit with a basic power supply. It requires a minimum input of 5 volts at .500 ma. Good smoke at 8 volts and .750 ma. It maxed out at 10 with an 8 ohm heater element. This pix is the 8 volt level.


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## AmFlyer

Doug, you clearly have experience with DCC and all its programming variables. I have no hands on with DCC. I use products from DCC Specialties on my Legacy layout. The AC versions of these products are far simpler. They are mostly straight pass through designs, no CV settings obviously and all single function. Some also have large heat sinks to handle the 10A rated current. I do know that little details that do not matter in HO and N can be problems in the higher current world of S gauge. Back in the design phase of my layout I was pushed hard to use DCC, but I said no after looking at a DCC HO layout that was in the process of being programmed. I was also not impressed with the tablet based control system available at that time (7 years ago.) The engine and coupler retrofitting required also concerned me, 80 engines and 200 cars.
I went with Legacy plus the LCS system, it was far simpler to install and set up plus all my engines worked as is. I did later have some conventional engines retrofitted with TMCC/Railsounds.
You have the experience to make this all work so I continue to look forward to some DCC engines running on your S gauge tracks.


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## AmFlyer

Is that picture of the smoke unit with the fan running continous? How will it get the signal to start/stop the fan in time with the chuffs?


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## AF-Doc'

Tom, what limited DCC experience i have came for setting up HO several years and at that time I found the CV programing somewhat confusing. Using the throttle for that effort was taxing as well. But then I found JMRI software that made it all somewhat simpler and you could set up the CV on screen and then download the setting to the program track. Then use the throttle to test the setup.

The picture is with the fan at 5 volt constant. Stop/Start will come from the cam that will be mounted on the original Gilbert gear. see pix. That signal will connect to the puffer board to supply the PWM signal for the fan. See puffer pix. I will need to mount 2 switches on the cam to allow for puffer input and sound decoder input as they are different signals.
I hope............

The cam modification.









The Puffer


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## mopac

CV programing can be a pain but some of the effects they control are amazing. I always
reprogram accelerating and deaccelerating CVs. Real trains do not do any changes in speed quickly. With CV programing you can make your train run a whole lap before stopping after shutting throttle all the way down. I never set my CVs for that but I do like
them to coast a bit after shutting throttle down. Momentum.
Easy to overshoot a station with too much momentum.


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## AF-Doc'

Some more additions,

Tom here is Digitrax response to the district current draw question..
"
*Dear Douglas Oconnor,*
The PM42 allows each section to draw as much current as needed (not to exceed the current setting for that section of the PMJ42). Now the PMJ42 comment is something that I looked for but found nothing except that the J and M are close to each other on the keyboard. My best guess.

mopac I look forward to getting back into the DCC CV settings as it has been 2 years since I did any work there. I found with JMRI software that the entire CV listing can be edited at once and sent via the program track to the locomotive. Then throttle up and test the results on the program track less motion.

One additional change to the puffer wiring, only one can switch is needed for both the sound decoder and the smoke unit puffer. Thank you Carl at Carl's S Gauge Empire.










The nylon 4 lobe cam is in production. Yea.


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## AmFlyer

Seems like progress, one switch for both functions is better.


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## AFGP9

Okay watching you guys posting electrical stuff and and the multitudes of variables and such has my head spinning. I'll just stick to fine tuning my TMCC adaption to my American Flyer engines and accessories and be happy with what I got, fans or no fans. I have got 3 different smoke box variations and materials to experiment with for smoke volume. That will have to do. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Doug, I found some older pictures of my AM Northern that Ed Goldin converted to TMCC and installed the same fan driven smoke unit you are using in the Hudson.
In the picture on the carpet the engine is running with conventional transformer control with about 9V on the track. In the picture on the layout the engine is running with the Legacy system, 15V on the track. You can see the smoke output is almost identical.


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## mopac

I would be happy with either. Nice smoke Tom. Doug, I certainly hope all your work
and expense is worth it. The only reason to go through all that to me, would be to get
the puffing smoke. Puffing smoke is too cool. And the only way to get that is to have
a fan. Good luck. You are well on your way. Sounds like a mission.

I have one fan driven smoke unit. Its a MTH Premier N&W #611 J class steamer.
Might be my most beautiful steam locomotive I have. I love it and got a great deal on it.
Its an early MTH and does not have puffing. Thats the only thing that would make it better.
Not S scale, damn, it is O scale. Here is a pic of it. It has sound, station sounds, and other electronics.
And I have 4 or 5 passenger cars for it. Runs really well.


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## AmFlyer

I wish we could get in S gauge 1/10th of the engines made in O gauge.


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## AFGP9

Nice smoke Tom. The fan certainly makes a difference. After watching you, mopac, and Doug's comments regarding any Flyer Hudson modifications, all that electrical talk is way over my head. Got no idea what you guys are talking about. I just wanted a simple way to incorporate a fan inside a Hudson. Since I already have the TMCC system I thought it would have been easier. It appears I would have to send an engine in to get the full TMCC conversion to even come close, then will the fan fit? I had already expected to have to send an engine to Golden Hands. Now it sounds like it would be expensive. I'm now thinking I should just leave things as Gilbert intended and just play around with the smoke wick materials as I previously posted and put my money into buying more AF cars. 
I have to admit it would be nice to have a full on TMCC locomotive and have long thought about having at least one Hudson converted. I have to agree with you on the S gauge locomotive issue, or more to the point, the lack of more variety. 

Mopac I've always liked that locomotive design. Yours certainly looks great. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, Ed can do the full conversion for you if you just send him an engine. My AM Northerns including electrocouplers (you absolutely need electrocouplers) cost about $400 plus shipping round trip. That included all labor and every part needed. Here is the issue I see, once you have one you will want two more, etc. Alternatively, for $500 you can buy a brand new state of the art Legacy Berkshire. I recommend that path. Just look at Carl Tuveson's video of his new Legacy Berk.


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## AFGP9

Tom, thanks for the information and advise on the Legacy Berkshire. I've never really looked at those. I already thought about once I had one Hudson converted I would eventually want more especially having the electrocouplers. I need to check Carl Tuveson's video. It has been some time since I have been to his site not to mention Ed's.

Kenny


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## alaft61ri

Looking good i didnt know you can put brass bushing in tender. How did u make put with new bushings for the chassie.
Al


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## AF-Doc'

Tom great looking smoke I can only hope the 322 gets there. Mopac that 611 is a great looking locomotive a real 4-8-4 brute with good looks.
Al the bushings came from Ed Goldin. He has kits for all knuckle coupler and link coupler trucks. A kit that uses your present wheels is $5 and with new plastic wheels is $8 I think. For the tender I use the old wheels and it works great I have no real spec data as to how much it reduces the load but Ed's video on YouTube shows an car rolling down a grade compared to and original Gilbert car and what a difference. About a 15 minute job per car tenders a little more.

A note about MTH just when I found a good smoke unit.....https://www.cabinfeverauctions.com/mth

Some updates on the DCC project.
All the DigiTrax components have arrived by way of Yankee Dabbler.com Doug Peck is shipping the chassis bushing and parts this week. The initial cam lobe assembly is in testing today although I think that a rev 2 will be required.

The cam parts and templet. The mount hole at the bottom was a test to see if 2 screws were needed, it is not required.









Cam lobe mounted on the gear and ready for a rough trim.










Cam lobe switch & motor mounted and in testing. Rev 1. I'm going to set up a voltage test circuit tomorrow to watch the switch cycling and look for bouncing. I feel the cam lobes need to be a little larger to move the switch arm further away from the metal gear. Rev 2 for sure.










All of the parts came from Lowe's I will make up a parts list when this part is completed.
Thanks for looking.


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## alaft61ri

Ol thanks things r starting to roll with all the parts. Coming for you cant wait to see it
Al


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## AF-Doc'

mopac said:


> I would be happy with either. Nice smoke Tom. Doug, I certainly hope all your work
> and expense is worth it. The only reason to go through all that to me, would be to get
> the puffing smoke. Puffing smoke is too cool. And the only way to get that is to have
> a fan. Good luck. You are well on your way. Sounds like a mission.


The smoke and sound a major part of the goal and in a Gilbert 322 for sure. The only real big part of the project is converting an AC rail over to DCC so that the motion and sound control can be had. If you only wanted the smoke with puff add the cam, switch, puffer board, and smoke unit and it will give you timed smoke.
My conversion will have the smoke unit separate from the decoder but both of those systems will use the same cam switch to match sound to smoke or so the plan is for now.....

I will be glad to have the rails converted to DCC as then all I need to work with is locomotive conversions. I think that two 322's in a consist would be awesome. I have already done Carl's modification that added a knuckle coupler to the pilot of another of my 322 with consisting in mind. Which I know nothing about.

There are so many fun sides to model railroading it seems endless. Just how deep do you want to go and with everyone here on the forum the possibilities are almost endless. There is such a wealth of knowledge across all the platforms, a genuine gold mine and everyone willing to share their talents. I am very grateful.

Thanks Al, I'm looking forward to it all coming together as well.


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## mopac

Consisting instructions are in your digitrax manual. I have not done it but I believe it is not difficult.
It all sounds cool to me.


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## AF-Doc'

It does sound cool, two Hudson's pulling a big load that's all smiles


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## AF-Doc'

AFGP9 said:


> Okay watching you guys posting electrical stuff and and the multitudes of variables and such has my head spinning. I'll just stick to fine tuning my TMCC adaption to my American Flyer engines and accessories and be happy with what I got, fans or no fans. I have got 3 different smoke box variations and materials to experiment with for smoke volume. That will have to do.
> Kenny


Kenny, putting aside the DCC side of my project I too have the same desire to have lots of smoke from my Gilbert 322 Hudson. I have purchased a MTH smoke unit and power supply board from eBay for about 71.00 including shipping. I have hooked It's power supply board up to the rails, 2 wires, and turned up the voltage and boy lots of smoke !! Oh the brass stack is from Lowe's it was part of a Proline Sleeve and Insert 2 pack. ( CP-107NLB )










I have removed the old Gilbert smoke and piston assemble and will make up a bracket to hold the MTH unit in its place that will match the stack in the Gilbert boiler. Then cut the brass fitting in the picture to make up the spacing inside the boiler maybe add an O-ring to seal the brass fitting to the inside of the boiler, lets don't waste any smoke. Then I'll connect the two wires to the tender pickup and oh boy lots of smoke we hope.

Once that is done and working well, you know all the tweaks that will be needed, I will then mount the cam lobes to the old Gilbert gear and add the switch and puffer board, for controlling the fan motor, so that I can have lots of smoke that matches the motion of the steam valve and drive wheels of the Hudson.

Since I'm adding a decoder board for sound and motion control, like your TMCC, I will add a second wire to the cam switch and that will go to the decoder board cam input so that it will match the steamer sound to the smoke puff.

All that DCC stuff is just to get to me where you are with your TMCC. Mine version will be from Digitrax as I already have most of the needed components from long ago purchases.


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## AmFlyer

Doug, I do not think that wasting smoke will be an issue. The reason for the brass eyelet shaped insert and a gasket of some type is to prevent the smoke fluid from getting outside of the smoke unit when filling. These powered boards and fans do not like smoke fluid on them.


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## AF-Doc'

Thanks Tom, that is a good point for the fabrication process. I was thinking of the smoke flowing out under the boiler not the fluid. Good catch thanks.


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## AF-Doc'

The finals of the smoke unit and the cam switch mounting.










Mounted in the boiler. The Lowe's fitting aligned nicely.










Bottom View


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## AmFlyer

Looks like there is plenty of room. Have you decided on the headlight? The board should have an output to drive an LED. There will also be a connection for a tender mounted rear light for reverse ops if you want to add one.


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## mopac

Hey, it all fits. Good job. Its coming along.


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## AFGP9

Doug, that is a good tip on that Lowe's Proline fitting. Looks like everything fits so far. Since I have a 312 presently torn down, I am going to check the ID of it and a Hudson boiler. Can you give me a dimensional measurement of that MTH smoke unit? I think I was letting all that DCC talk over load my thinking. 

Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

Tom, the decoder board has outputs for the front and rear led's with a 250 ma draw for each led. I thought to drill a mounting hole in the existing front lenses and nest a white led in it. I think I would like to keep the exterior look of the original lenses. For the rear led, there will need to be some kind of mounting work maybe next to the ladder and I'm open for any and all ideas.

Kenny, here are some dimension pictures for the MTH smoke unit. Be advised that MTH is now gone and being auctioned off. I found the smoke units on eBay with the power supply boards. I have checked with most of the dealers that MTH listed on their site and did not find any units for sale. Ed Goldin is looking as well. If you find a source please let me know. The last pricing on the MTH site was $50 just for the smoke unit. So maybe the price on eBay with the board is a good one. I purchased 2 of them for my 322 as I want to try the consist.

Ed gave me this part number for the smoke unit: AA-2100002. The number on the unit is EBO122-01 MTH. The board will supply 5.5vdc max for both the motor and 8 ohm heater when connected to the rails.




























I think the 2 mount holes are metric. I drilled and tapped mine for 2-56 x 1/4" screws. I hope this helps you.


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## AFGP9

Yes it is a great help. Just what I wanted. Now to find at least one and board. Thanks so much. 

Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

Kenny, If you use the one from eBay you will need to add a heat sink to the (2) IC devices. This picture shows an aluminum strip, 1/2" W x 1.5" L x 1/16" T that works there are other kinds as well. The tabs have voltage on them so use separate pieces to heat sink them. I broke a leg on the PBYR10100 diode chip trying to stand it up. So I have ordered that chip and the LM2596 for spares if needed. Good luck in with the search.


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## mopac

Thanks for the info Doug. For the headlight LEDs get what is called warm. Warm has a tinge
of yellow. Cool Leds have a tinge of blue. Cool LEDs are good for diesels. Warm for steamers.


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## AmFlyer

Doug, all my engines had a tender mounted light. I looked to see if one could be ordered from AM as a replacement part but apparently not.


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## AF-Doc'

All great comments, thank you. I do have some led's labeled warm so that might be the way to go and just remove the original lenses. The warm led on the tender reverse light as well ?


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## AF-Doc'

A little more progress with the Engine,

The smoke unit bracket needed trimming after the bearings and drive wheels where installed because of the wheel flange clearance. 










A 4-40 mounting stud was tapped in for the power supply board support. The board was drilled to allow centering of the board and also required an insulated washer on top of the stud to keep the board isolated from the chassis. 










The board had the heatsinks angle trimmed to keep them from touching the inside of the boiler housing.









The chassis was tested at 5.5 volts for function and then the heat sinks were trimmed during the fitting of the boiler housing. 











The pigtail wires for the boards power are soldered directly to the board. Although this set up is with a DC can motor, it will work just as well with the original Gilbert ac motor. Attach the board pigtails to the brush connections of the ac motor where the old smoke and front light hooked up. The smoke unit power supply board with function with an ac or dc input.

Now back to the tender for decoder and speaker work.


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## mopac

Doug, you really have a project going there. Thanks for all the updates. I would think not many guys could pull off your project. Include me in that group. I went the lazy man way last night and bought a new Lionel Berkshire locomotive with
the smoke unit, fan, and sound board and speaker already installed. Takes a real mechanic to do what you are doing.
Not just a parts changer.


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## AFGP9

Doug, great work on your project. Also thanks for the information and pictures of the measurements and of your step by step progress. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

It is coming along nicely. I am waiting to see if you use 3 or 4 wires between the engine and tender.


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## AF-Doc'

Thank you all for the kind words, and mopac congrats on the new locomotive I bet it's sweet.

I have added fan puffer board to the boiler chassis and have tested the cam switch to puffer interface for the switch cycle and it looks good so far. It might require a slight adjustment. Thank you Carl and Ed.

I had a set back with the mobile decoder and sound bug decoder during installation. After plugging the two decoders together I Ooops the install and shorted one of the interconnecting screws to the tender pick up and.... well the smoke escaped. Digitrax said to send them back for a warranty replacement. I love their warrant, for one year they will replace their items no matter who caused the problem, now that is a no hassle warranty.

I'm going to add ditch lighting with the main front light as well as a red and backup light on the tender. The ditch and tender red light will be fixed as the DH465 decoder does not have additional outputs for them.

Tom, the wires wiring harness will have 7 wires. 2 for the motor, 2 for the power to the smoke unit, puffer and power pcb. 1 for the cam return to the decoder and 2 for the front led light. I have found a 7 pin mini connector flex wire cable that might do the job. Each of the wires is good for 1 amp / 2 amp peak. I need to do some more current testing to see if it will be ok. If not I have several other options with higher current capacities but that might entail using several 2 pin connectors for the higher current motor and smoke assemblies'. TBD.



















Thanks again guys.


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## AmFlyer

The AM Northerns Ed rebuilt for me have 6 pin connectors between the engine and tender. I think the 1A wiring should be good for the harness.


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## alaft61ri

That is Orsum that is one mean looking 322 good luck enjoy.
Al


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## AF-Doc'

Greetings, A day of progress today, ending with the 322's first time on the program track and then the rails for a throttle test. Here are some notes:

First the smoke power supply was removed from the chassis and the smoke unit had the resistor changed to a 30 ohm 1 watt so that the smoke unit could be wired directly to the rails through the "off " switch.










Resistor mods. The original 8 ohm is in the foreground, the next resistor up with the silver bands is an 30 ohm that when filed down lost internal contact. If you look close at the right silver band there is a little indent even with the lead. This is the contact point for the wire of the resistor. The one soldered in the board is the same with out the end caps being cleaned off, only the center point. Ed said filing allows better heat conduction to the oil. Yep, smokes like crazy.










There was a problem with the Puffer board working with the decoder cam input when their cam leads were connected together. I worked out the the puffer board would work fine on the N.O. contacts of the cam switch, yellow wire and the decoder would work fine on the N.C. contacts of the cam switch, white wire, with the common of the switch, black, returning to the "B" rail. I have added the corrections to the Puffer PCB print. Lo speed puff and chuff is just awesome hear and watch.










The puffer edits.










The tender wiring is only a rough in with the smoke "off" switch needing to be added. Additional Led wiring will be added for the rear red light. I have enough outputs to put ditch light on the tender as well.










The 322 on the program track. I highly recommend JMRI software for decoder programing as it take all the effort out of the CV's as well as testing on the program track, add a DPDT switch to go between programing and rail power, to see the change your making before going on the pike. JMRI software is free. You only need a USB buffer between the computer and the Loco Net DCC system. More on that a little later.










Initial DCC program and run test.










A little more work and the locomotive will be back together. The next step is to complete the DCC pieces and parts for the rail control for the S gauge.
Thanks for the looks and comment away.
Doc'


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## AmFlyer

Great progress. You are validating my decision to not do these conversions myself.


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## alaft61ri

That looke great lot of work and thought. Over my head. Keep on showing pic. Good luck 

Al


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Great progress. You are validating my decision to not do these conversions myself.


Tom, I'm beginning to think your right...This is a long road although I to see a turn comming.


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## AF-Doc'

Well after a short list of house and yard chores I was able to finish up the pilot assembly. I fabricated the ditch light brackets from two of the tender rear replacement steps and installed gold white 603 wired surface mount led's with 1.5k ohm current limit resistors.




























Power up test










Now to assemble everything and test again on the program track. If all is good then the steamer gets her decals.
Next is to finish the DCC system for the rails. Some pictures on that side of the project to come.

Enjoy


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## AmFlyer

Doc, I am sure the learning curve is steep. Once you are familiar with the available circuit boards, smoke units and accessory pieces like wires, connectors and LED's, the next engines become a lot easier.


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## alaft61ri

Cool


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Doc, I am sure the learning curve is steep. Once you are familiar with the available circuit boards, smoke units and accessory pieces like wires, connectors and LED's, the next engines become a lot easier.


Tom, you are dead on as that has been my experience in past projects. There was an ooops with the pilot mods...I over looked the clearance for the pilot wheels. Pilot ditch lights rev 2.0 in the works


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## AmFlyer

I doubt the pilot wheel flange would hit that mount, the LED assembly must project back from the mount.


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## AF-Doc'

There is some additional progress on this project, Its beginning to take on the look of being close to completion.

There was a clearance issue with the pilot wheels and the ditch light bracket so mods are being made to fix it. The 322 was complete, short of decals and it was during an on the rails test run that the pilot wheel issue showed up. It caused a derailment that shorted power district 1. The DH465 worked perfect and dropped the district out before the Command unit tripped. A good test but added additional pilot work to the list of to do thinks.

The original modification.










This mod, which is still curing, moved the brackets to the sides of the cow catcher that will allow the pilot wheels to clear the ditch light addition.











The Ditch Led's in a dry fit.










After the cure a little clean up, shaping and a re-paint will complete the front ditch lights.

This is the DCC / AC platform, a drop skirt is being made to enclose the wiring. The setup allows for both dcc and ac function of the rails with a control switch and a vector board with jumpers that replaces the DH465 breaker board.

The DCC side using the DH465 and a break out board for rail connections, back left of picture.











The AC side with the Vector board that bypasses the DH 465.











Next is to add a Digitrax PR4 programing unit and track to allow the JMRI software to interface this section of the overall DCC setup.

I will be happy to just to have the second 322 to convert. Yes Tom it will be a lot quicker. Although this project was somewhat larger in it's scope it has still be a lot of fun and and has added lots to my train knowledge. You all have helped tons hats off to all of you for your help and encouragement.


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## AmFlyer

I see you have a single turnout controller in use, they are not seen very often. I am always impressed by the amount of processors on a DCC system board.


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## AF-Doc'

There is a single long siding on the upper rails that will be used for a siding as well as the programing track. The single controller and the unloader button are wired to this siding. The siding will also be set up with a program / rail switch for both uses. The system board will have the addition of the PR4 programmer added and then the DCC control side of the project should be completed.

Back to the pilot work as it is cured.


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## mopac

Sounds like your project is moving along. Keep us posted.


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## AFGP9

Doc, it looks like you are making steady progress. Doing it the way you have is way over my electronic mind. I get past my TMCC partial conversion and I am lost. I say partial because none of my engines have TMCC installed even though I can control them through track power. Everything else on the layout is programed to be ran by the CAB 1 and the hand held. I keep going back and looking at the Golden Hand's conversions and thinking what if? Then there is my wanting a Berkshire....

Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

Kenny it's all good and all about what you like to do the most, although the scope of my project was fairly large not all are. I just love the satisfaction of working through it and I love the smiles when its complete. This project will open up a door to another project and with the trains it is endless. I love your Berkshire as well.

I have been running the Hudson all morning looking for any issues and now with the decals and clear coat on I loaded up some cars and filled my train room with some of the best sounds and so much smoke I had to open windows. Dang this 322 is off the chain. Thank you all for your comments and encouragement. 

The next locomotive is in the Q so that I might learn about Consisting two Hudson's together. I have one that I copied Carl's front knuckler coupler modification to and I'm going to use it to go with the just completed 322.

Here is the finished Hudson and the DCC platform.


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## AmFlyer

Its alive, its alive!!!


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## AmFlyer

Doc, great job getting this to completion. I was thinking about the number on the cab, 322. That is how this engine left the factory. It now has been completely rebuilt, like some of the major railroads used to do and now has improved controls and propulsion as well as updated couplers.I thought of 327DCC as the cab number, I am not a fan of 5 digit engines so I ruled out a simple 5 digit number.
Enjoy it!


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## Mikeh49

How about a video to show the 4 chuffs/revolution and slow speed performance. Sounds too?


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## Chuck7612

Great work. I do mine a little differently. I use the TCS WOW 501 Steam decoder. With this decoder there is no need for a CAM, reed switch, or puff 'n chuff interface board. You set the chuff rate through an interactive voice tool and your DCC remote which takes a minute or two to get to the 4 chuff per revolution for your particular loco. I do have to replace the MTH heating element in the smoke unit with a Lionel one to get the proper resistance. The MTH element burned up pretty fast. Here's a video of an AM Pacific that I did...


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## AmFlyer

Chuck, you have sure done a lot of work since I last saw pictures of your layout. It looks great. Same with the ex-Gilbert engine, that is a lot of detailing work beyond just the DCC and fan driven smoke conversion. I see you have all KaDee couplers on the cars as well, not sure where you find time to do it all.


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## Chuck7612

AmFlyer said:


> Chuck, you have sure done a lot of work since I last saw pictures of your layout. It looks great. Same with the ex-Gilbert engine, that is a lot of detailing work beyond just the DCC and fan driven smoke conversion. I see you have all KaDee couplers on the cars as well, not sure where you find time to do it all.


Thank you Tom. You should see my layout expansion plans! Biggest problem is that I have to share my gameroom with two young sons for now. So I just dream for now of the modules I will add one day. I spend much of my modelling time at present doing weathering and locomotive upgrades (mostly DCC custom installs with sound and lights). Check out my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCau01VnCBCITGeGg0IyEUdQ/ . And recently I did restorations to my 3 most treasured Gilbert Flyer steamers, a 336, 326 and 343.

Yes, I put Kadees or San Juan Model Company's On30 Evolution couplers on everything except the Gilbert Flyer stuff that I have pledged to keep in or restore to their original design. I span a bit of a spectrum of S railroading. I lean toward scale modelling, but I do still love my small post war Gilbert collection, much of which has family ties. 

BTW - The Pacific in the video in my last post is actually American Models and not Gilbert. I have done a few Gilbert steamer upgrades to command control, but all TMCC rather than DCC. On my YouTube channel you can see the custom Blue Daniel that I Frankenstein-ed together for my 6 year old from leftovers.


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## AmFlyer

That explains the linkage, I guess I should have recognized the AM Pacific engine, I have three of them. I hope your sons take a liking to the trains.
The videos of your Legacy Berk and the U36c show why it is worth spending $329 for a Legacy 990 Cab2 and Base package.


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## AF-Doc'

Greetings,
It has been a while, There has been some rework on the 322 cam system due to issues that came up during operations. I know that the best results happen when the sum of the errors is equal to zero. The cam design had just too many error sources. The micro switch lever and internal switch bounce, then there is the lubricant film that gets into the works as well and it made the puffer board and decoder go nuts at times.
I improved on the cam design by fabricating a new cam ring using magnetics every 90 degrees to trigger a pair of magnetic reed switches. This set up produced symmetrical square waves at the lowest speed ( 9.5 Hz ) and high speed ( 150 Hz ). The low speed was at 1 volt dc and the high speed was at 14.5 volt dc to the motor.

The magnetics are Neodymium from K&J Magnetics ( # D14-N52 ), The reeds switches are from Newark made by Littlefuse ( # MDCG-4-12-2 ) SPST N.O. Watch using the magnetics as they will jump to places you would not believe, although I believe it now.

I'm now doing on the rail operation to see if the bugs are resolved. I have included some of the pictures of the upgrades.

Tom, I like the idea of the 327DCC as it is very fitting. The decals are on order. In addition I have just received a Logitech 922 web cam and will make some attempts at making a film with sound at low and high speed and getting it to YouTube. Although I don't have a clue about how that YouTube thing is done. Ah, another project.

The Initial parts of the cam










A fuzzy view of inserting a magnetic in the bore hole










A pair of completed mag rings










The reed switch's mounted in a test chassis










The wave form at 14.5 volts drive to the motor and both switches. 150 Hz.










The cam ring and reeds installed in the 322 Hudson











The completed Hudson....Well there is the Cab Number change to be done.










Thanks again to everyone for all your help and I hope you enjoy the pictures.
Doc'


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## AmFlyer

That is a lot of work on the cam and the micro switches. I hope this version proves to be reliable and long lasting.


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## mopac

Doc, that is some project you got going there. Way over my head. Good luck.
That is a great looking Hudson.


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## Chuck7612

I can understand the desire to conquer the mountain, but if you ever decide to go another route, the TCS WOW decoder does not need a cam to synchronize the chuff with the wheel rotation.


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## AF-Doc'

Thanks all for the comments and views on the cam work and the other decoder options. I can just say most of my enjoyments comes from the effort to succeed with the concept and revisions that show up after the project hits the layout. Tom I'm with you on the current revision of the cam and I agree, "I hope this version proves to be reliable and long lasting." I will be putting the hours on it now without any other changes to the engine. A type of " Iron Man Test " if you would just making notes of issues and running more with out changes just logging run time.

I have put together a video and posted it on YouTube here, ( 



 ), I'm not much of a camera man put it's fun and with a few USB extension cables I'm going to make another one that might be a little more realistic. I hope you all enjoy.


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## AF-Doc'

Chuck, that is a very great video with your Pacific and a very nice looking layout. Thanks for your comments and suggestion's. 

I used an MTH smoke unit and had heard the elements burn up so I removed the MTH power supply and 8 ohm resistor and replaced the resistor with a 30 ohm 1 watt from Mouser and drive it directly from the rails through an on off switch. The smoke fan is driven from a puffer board that is triggered from the same cam that triggers the decoder. Many thanks to Carl for the puffer and cam concepts and Ed for the resistor changes.


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## mopac

Doc, AC Gilbert would be pleased. Super nice locomotive. I did enjoy the video. The sights, sounds, and
smoke are great. I noticed the ditch lights flash when you blow the great sounding whistle. Great job,
be proud.


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## Chuck7612

Doc' said:


> Chuck, that is a very great video with your Pacific and a very nice looking layout. Thanks for your comments and suggestion's.
> 
> I used an MTH smoke unit and had heard the elements burn up


Thank you. Yes, they do burn up. My first heating element fried. So I bought some replacement elements from Lionel, the same kind that a number of folks like to install in their Gilbert Flyer smoke units, and that worked well in the MTH unit.

Great video and I love the ditch lights.


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## AmFlyer

My experience with Both Lionel AF smoke units and retrofit MTH smoke units in my former TMCC engines is the failure rates are about the same. I have eight steam engines with MTH units, seven Lionel Legacy steam engines and nine Lionel Legacy diesel engines with smoke units. The failure rate is the same for the steam engines regardless of manufacturer, call it excessive. I am careful to keep the smoke units filled. Of interest is that none of my Lionel diesel engine smoke units have failed.
Doc, I am curious why in the video I do not hear evenly spaced chuffs. The trigger design should make all 4 chuffs at the same interval.


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## AF-Doc'

Tom, you tagged it dead on with your comment.

" Doc, I am curious why in the video I do not hear evenly spaced chuffs. The trigger design should make all 4 chuffs at the same interval."

This was a case of I was seeing and hearing what I was believing. With your question in hand and what Chuck said about tuning his TCS WOW decoder I went back into the DCC programing for the Digitrax decoder and found this. When I selected the steam sound profile for the 322 decoder a default value for the chuff, cv133, was set for the wheel size of the engine used in the sound profile. When I looked deeper I found that the chuff synchronization to the external cam required that cv 133 be set to 128 which enable the cam input. With that cv133 was changed and the timing dialed right in and it even matched the smoke puff at low speeds. Good eyes and ears Tom, thanks again. 






Sorry the focus for the camera is not so hot. I'm working on a better camera for filming and I'm open to suggestions.


Here is a little more footage on the layout. Dang, I do need a better camera.


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## alaft61ri

I would love to see that to great job. 

Al


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## mopac

Doc, the chuffs are right on. Good job. The CV change did it. I heard and saw the problem before.
I just was not going to say anything. I figured Tom would, LOL. EnJoy.


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## AmFlyer

Those HO engines look nice. The programming track video has the 4 chuffs right on. The layout video must be with the prior CV setting since the engine only chuffs at 90 and 180 degrees of wheel rotation. I hear none at 270 and 360 degrees.


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## AF-Doc'

Tom, the layout video was before the CV changes and the one on the programming track had the chuff volume increased a little so as to hear it better. I notice that the first 2 chuffs are louder that the next 2 in the forward direction and then they switch when in reverse.

One of the HO trains is a Rivarossi Nord 4-6-2 "Chapeton" Class 231 E 13. This one is modeled on the 1938 # 3.1130. The passenger cars are two from Jouef and 3 from Rivarossi. They are the Compagnia Embossed series with gold lettering and they make up the Orient Express Train. Its is DC controlled.

The other is a Rivarossi Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 # 4272 from Southern Pacific Lines with a few billboard cars. It is DCC.

Thanks Mopac for letting me ferret out the cv problem as it was a great learning experience as is DCC operations in general.

I wish I have a better camera so the the videos where in better focus. Maybe next time.


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## AF-Doc'

There is one more 322 Hudson to be modified like this one although I has a functional knuckle coupler in the pilot so it can be used in consisting. I hope it takes much less time.

It will reflect the 327DCC cab as well.


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## AFGP9

Doc, I've been following your project from the beginning. In my electronic challenged mind, you have accomplished quite a feat. Glad to see you got a fine looking and operating 322/327DCC Hudson. 
I'll stick with my TMCC controlled AF stuff. Much easier and understandable. I'll just keep playing around with smoke out put in other ways. 

Kenny


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## mopac

Doc, I have a few Rivarossi steam engines also. Well, I have diesels also. They are not that great. Love the steamers. I have 3 big boys, some hudsons, and a few pacifics. Only my 4014 Big Boy is DCC. Runs really nice. I bought way too much DCC equipment. 8 amp Digitrax Super Chief and a 8 amp booster. The 8 amp stuff was only 20.00 more than 5 amp. Those 3 amps are cheapest amps I will ever buy.


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## AF-Doc'

Kenny, If can add anything to help your smoke unit efforts please let me know, I don't a lot but this last project added a little more to my notes folders.

Mopac, all of my Rivarossi engines are steam with several that have been converted to DCC. I love the articulated 4005 Big Boy. I have a few Challengers and one FEF3 but my favorite engine is the 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward, I found the story of why the engine was built cab forward was impressive and resolved a major safety issue for mountain trains. This one is also DCC. I too purchased too much DCC equipment and once all the layouts are complete all the extra will move on to other hands.

I'll post a picture of the 327DCC cab when the decals arrive.

Once again thank all of you for your inputs, comments and support of this 322 soon to be 327DCC project.


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## mopac

I have a 4005 from the 70s, 4007 from the 90s, and 4014 from 2017. I too find whys and how the designs of locomotives came about. As far as I know the cab forwards were for tunnels. The design kept the smoke out of the cab. I only have one Challenger, 3985, from the 90s. I have 0ne FEF3, 8444, which later became 844. Another interesting story.


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## AmFlyer

I sure wish Lionel would make an S gauge cab forward, right after a new Legacy fully detailed Hudson.


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