# Layout



## alaft61ri

I started my extended layout going up.here is some pic nothing is set in stone. This still a rough layout. Lot more work. Know i would like your honest opinion or any advice. Like i said nothing is set in stone. Thanks Al


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## flyernut

Nice...


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## AmFlyer

Looks easy enough to finish. Run some trains and see what you think. I would move the trestle bridge to the new upper loop where the track passes the yellow Shell storage tank.


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## alaft61ri

Sounds good i could leave the bridge and buy another one . nothing wrong going on e bay and buy another one. Any excuse to by more train stuff.


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## AFGP9

Looks like a good start. I like your sturdy blocks holding that upper level. Looks like you build like I do. Over build so there are no weak spots not to mention those 2x4 runners. 

Kenny


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## flyernut

I have a plain old girder bridge if you need one...


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## alaft61ri

Thankyou i like to build so it last longer than i do. Lol i will think about it flyernut thankyou.


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## mopac

All looks good Al. I love the long straight away in 2nd pic. How long is the layout now?


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## flyernut

alaft61ri said:


> Thankyou i like to build so it last longer than i do. Lol i will think about it flyernut thankyou.


Lionel bridge,it even has the inspection label...


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## alaft61ri

mopac said:


> All looks good Al. I love the long straight away in 2nd pic. How long is the layout now?


When its done i think it will be 14ft long × 4 ft wide. Roughly.


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## alaft61ri

flyernut said:


> Lionel bridge,it even has the inspection label...
> View attachment 548184


I think i will wait . iam looking for the same one i have that i might put that in another spothow much would u want for it. Thanks Al


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## AF-Doc'

You have a great looking layout and a second level is just all that is need to purchase more train stuff. Love all the accessories around the rails, sweet. Here are some pix of my first and second level. Might spark a thought. I love bridges purchased or hand made.



















Doc'


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## alaft61ri

Nice real nice so you use the older A.F.T. tacks and the pike master tracks what is the difference is it a better track than the orignal.
Al


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## AF-Doc'

I have no pike master track as I heard it caused and issue in curves for the long step Diesels because of the tighter radius in the curve tracks. There was a layout in Charlotte NC several years ago that had a nice tight " tie " spacing but I can't remember who made it. Once again CRS disease jumps up.
Doug


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## alaft61ri

Ok what is the other track you have i thought those were pike masters.


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## AF-Doc'

Maybe your seeing the HO layout that is running around the outside and under the elevation of the AF rails. The HO is atlas.


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## alaft61ri

Yes thats what iam looking how big is yours and how long u been working on it.


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## AF-Doc'

I'll do better with the picture size, sorry. The layout resembles an upside down U running around the outside wall of a 30 x 16' room. 15' down the left side, 16' across the end and 22' up the other wall at present. There are 2 separate S tracks in the center and 2 HO tracks outside of them. A bridge network spans the window end with over/under S and dual outside and inside HO bridges. It has been about 5 years on this layout. With more to do.

The connecting bridges



















Doug


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## alaft61ri

Holly cow that is cool with the bridges. Good luck. Thanks foe the pics.


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## AmFlyer

Doug, that is a very nice dual scale layout. The detail work on the elevated sections is great. I see there is a lot of roadbed and track work yet to do on the HO. There is no visible access, do you walk on the layout to access the track? Is the HO DCC? I only see one reverse loop (the turntable.)
As far as high rail S gauge track there are multiple options. There are rubber ties made that slip under the rails of Gilbert track. There is GarGraves that has more realistic ties that is fully compatible with Gilbert track. In the scale appearing segment with scale ties there is American S gauge with .172 rail, American Models with .148 rail and then MTH, Fox Valley and Lionel Fastrack all use .138 rail. All Gilbert trains run on all these track systems. If my memory is correct the layout mentioned uses American S Gauge track.


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## flyernut

alaft61ri said:


> I think i will wait . iam looking for the same one i have that i might put that in another spothow much would u want for it. Thanks Al


$10 bucks plus....


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## AFGP9

Very nice bridge work. Regarding your track selection, since I wanted an original Gilbert looking layout, I have used mostly all Flyer track and switches. I did use K-Line for the curves since those track sections are broader and make curves way nicer. The only problem with K-Line now is that it is hard to come by therefore a little pricey. I bought all of mine when K-Line was producing it. I also added extra rubber ties under all track. When ballasted correctly, it is hard to tell the original Gilbert ties from the ones I added. Of course adding extra ties to elevated track as you have would not work.
The other track methods Tom has already covered so I won't repeat. 

Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

Access is by walking around the inside. Maybe these pictures will help. The work bench is in the center so I don't have to go to far to fix my ooops.



















The HO has 2 different rails, one is DC only and the other is DCC Digitrax electronics. I have another complete Digitrax setup for the DC only rail time willing. There is a HO turntable and round house has a turn out connection to the center HO rails, this one is DCC. Round house is under construction but the 130' turntable is all good. In the left side picture there is an S gauge turntable with a turnout to the main line.

Yes this layout is mostly A.F. S gauge track with some 3 ' pieces from another company whose name escapes me again. Thank you for the Gargraves mention as that was a track that I saw in a show in Charlotte, NC and I liked it a lot. Enough to redo this road bed......well maybe when I retire, oh that's why I don't have a job, I did retire.

Thank you for the kind words.
Doug


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## AF-Doc'

Thanks Kenny, the 3 foot track is K-Line. Although you need to shape the ends of their connectors to get them to fit the old AF track.
Doug


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## AmFlyer

It still looks like a loooong reach past the HO roundhouse to the track on the center of the peninsula.
GarGraves makes sectional and flex track. The advantage of flex is it eliminates a lot of track joints in addition to allowing custom fit curves.Two rail Gar Graves flex is a lot easier to bend than three rail.
Here is a picture of an old layout I was building with GarGraves flex. Never finished it due to a move.
I also included a shot taken on my layout that uses MTH flex along with a properly smoking American Flyer engine.


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## AF-Doc'

Yes it is.. a long reach to that area and worse ij you try to get to the back wall. There is a little more access from the DCC desk, bottom right of the second picture as I did not take the desk to the back wall. It's a don't gain weight location. Over all It's the only area on the layout that requires a step stool and at times a step up and on.

Your layouts look very well laid out, clean and crisp great detail. The smoking AF is it a big boy? It sure does look grand. Sooo how do you get into your layout? It looks deep in the picture.

Doc'


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## AmFlyer

The engine is a Northern Pacific Challenger. I do have a Big Boy that also smokes volumes. I usually run them on the low smoke setting.
The layout is around the walls with a center peninsula. Entrance is through a swing gate at the door. The longest reach is about 3'.


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## AmFlyer

Big Boy 4014 coasting up to a grade crossing.


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## AFGP9

Doug Oconnor said:


> Thanks Kenny, the 3 foot track is K-Line. Although you need to shape the ends of their connectors to get them to fit the old AF track.
> Doug


When I chose to use K-Line curves because of the broader curve shape, I did find out there is a slight connecting pin width difference. The K-Line pins are a slightly wider and won't slide into the Gilbert track without a little fine tuning. Not a big deal since I wanted that much bigger curve the K-Line provides. I was at a hobby store once and after learning that K-Line was going to cease production of their track, I bought every last piece of track they had. They had it marked down to get rid of it and I was only too happy to help. Now all these years later I am so glad I did buy all that track since now it is so scarce. I suppose I should confess that eventually I replaced my main lines with the K-Line because I liked the nice shiny rail head. So my track isn't exactly all Gilbert. All the rest of the layout track is Gilbert, trying to stay true to the American Flyer theme I was wanting. I've got plenty K-Line left plus who knows how much original Gilbert track.
Another alternate pin fix was to replace the K-Line pins with Gilbert pins which I did when I chose to redo my main lines with the K-Line. A little crimping was all that was needed. Luckily wasn't that far along in my layout building so no big deal. 

Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

Tom your work sets a high bar, nicely done sir and thanks for the pictures. I wish that A.C. Gilbert had made a real challenger as well as the big boy. I do have several of the 4-6-6-4 and 4-8-8-4 in Rivarossi HO. My fave is the Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 a unique look moving on the rails, also in Rivarossi HO and they are all DigiTrax DCC.


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## AF-Doc'

Good thoughts on the K-Line rails Kenny. You have me thinking as I would like a cleaner install for the rails and I like the idea of the curve radius being larger. Some of my Northerns must slow a little to make the lower raised level area curves. The 180 is a bit tight with the original Flyer track. Re-railing might just happen with what you all are showing. You all set some great goals. Hum, maybe I can find a rail gang....


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## AmFlyer

K-Line was purchased by Lionel. The S gauge Big Boy pictured above is the K-Line O gauge engine with S gauge 2 rail wheels and Legacy circuit boards. The K-Line engine was undersized for O gauge. The length is almost a perfect 1/64th, the height is about 1/58 to 1/60, the width is 1/60.
Lionel continued to make the K-Line S gauge track, primarily for use in boxed sets but it was also separately cataloged. I have three ovals of the 27" track with Lionel stamped on the ties. The K-Line track was soon replaced with S gauge FasTrack.
Doug, we still do not have much variety in S gauge steam engines, certainly no cab forwards. In Legacy Lionel has only made the Big Boy, Challenger, Y-3 and the Berkshire. In the older TMCC they made a light Mikado and a light Pacific. Adding in FlyerChief the made a Berkshire, Northern and a Tank Switcher. No variety like in O gauge or HO.


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## AF-Doc'

I have not gone down the DCC road yet with modifying the Gilbert engines but since I have the Digitrax for the HO it seems that if I do I might stay there. My brother has Legacy in O gauge and likes it very well as there cab control has great functions available. It's easy to get excited about the " new " on this forum and see all the potential that is available such fun.
Once in my internet travels a year or so ago I saw on YouTube an articulated American Flyer It was either a 4-8-8-4 or 4-6-6-4 done from chopped up chassis and boilers.

Thanks again for all the information and pictures


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## AmFlyer

There are many S scale operators who use DCC. The easiest conversions are SHS engines since they have a receptacle pre wired and installed for a DCC decoder. American Models engines only require a decoder since they all have DC can motors. River Raisin engines all have DC can motors as well. Any conversion of a Gilbert engine starts with replacing the 3 pole open frame motor with a can motor.
I use the Lionel Legacy system. It allows operation of all Legacy and TMCC engines. All of my AM engines have been coverted to TMCC/Railsounds. I can run my Gilbert engines conventionally by using the Legacy Cab 2 remote to control the track voltage.


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## AFGP9

In my recounting of the K-Line track, I neglected to mention that Lionel did indeed purchase K-Line. I do have some of that track with Lionel stamped on the ties. Sorry for omitting that fact. Whichever name is on the ties it doesn't matter. The track is the same and looks the same. Great looking stuff if only because of the prototypical shiny rail head and of course the broader curves well suited for any of the larger locomotives mentioned. The biggest I have are Hudsons so I have no first hand knowledge. 
Tom you can keep posting pictures of those smoking Challenger and Big Boy. Love the smoke. 
Kenny


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## AF-Doc'

That's well thought out, I have replaced several Gilbert 3 poles with 5 poles from S-'n-S trains from Boise. I know from the HO dcc to pick one manufacture of component's and decoders. That has keep me some what sane in the programing department. I have used several Tsumami TSU 1000 sound decoders but ended up going back to the Digitrax just to keep my CV programing and sound files common.
I wonder if they make a 2 amp decoder that would work in the Gilbert engines...need to go look. I can see it comming the gilbert conversion to dcc. I love this site.


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## AF-Doc'

AFGP9 said:


> Great looking stuff if only because of the prototypical shiny rail head and of course the broader curves well suited for any of the larger locomotives mentioned.


I have two of the Northerns and I just tried to run a 336 with poor results. I know now why there are on the display shelf. The Hudson's, Pacific's and Atlantic's run and track great. With thoughts now about maybe converting to DCC It might be a good time to consider rails as well. Although most of my track is elevated and the foundations work is cut for the Gilbert rails I might need to consider flex to make the curves. Winter is comming......


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## AmFlyer

Pretty sure the can motors from S-'n-S Trains draw under one amp. The smoke choo choo unit can be left as is and not powered through the DCC decoder. I did that with one of my AM Pacifics that is now TMCC/Railsounds. Since both DCC and Legacy put a constant 15V on the track regardless of speed the smoke units put out smoke, even at low speeds.


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## AmFlyer

I can run my Northerns on original Gilbert 20" track. You track work looks perfect so they should run without issue on it.


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, here is a picture of a smoking American Models Northern. After several years of frustration I had it gutted, added TMCC, Railsounds, an electrocoupler and a fan driven smoke unit. Now it smokes like it should. The engine is just coasting at a scale 25mph.


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## AFGP9

Out standing!


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## AmFlyer

Thanks Kenny. The only way to get clouds of smoke is with a fan driven smoke unit. I am thinking about having one put in a Gilbert Hudson.
Doug, your layout is so well constructed it would be a shame to take out the S gauge track to put in flex.


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## AF-Doc'

Tom, I agree with leaving track the way it is and resolve any running and tracking issues that are there. Tom your engines sure generate lots of great smoke.
A fan driven smoke unit ?? Sounds interesting new to me.


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## AmFlyer

Modern electronic control systems and fan driven smoke units can be a long, involved topic. In S gauge there currently three choices if one does not want to use conventional transformer control. Those are Legacy, FlyerChief and DCC. Legacy subdivides into full Legacy and TMCC, both are fully compatible with each other. In order to have fan driven smoke one of these systems must be installed in the engine. Current Lionel S gauge production is both FlyerChief and Legacy. FlyerChief is a newer, low end system that works very well. Legacy is not available for retrofit, that is where TMCC comes in. All my American Models engines have been retrofitted with TMCC and Railsounds. The AM steamers got fan driven smoke units but there was no way to fit one of these smoke units in any of the AM diesels. Almost all my retrofits use MTH smoke units, however the newest Lionel units are greatly improved and smoke as well as the MTH. The physical size of the smoke unit was also a selection factor.
The most recent Legacy engines will also run with DCC right out of the box. Older Legacy and all TMCC are not DCC compatible. Any TMCC or Legacy engine will also run with just conventional transformer operation.
Retrofitting a conventional S gauge engine to DCC with fan driven smoke is possible but I understand there are just a few high current decoders that support the power demands of the smoke unit.


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## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> Thanks Kenny. The only way to get clouds of smoke is with a fan driven smoke unit. I am thinking about having one put in a Gilbert Hudson.
> Doug, your layout is so well constructed it would be a shame to take out the S gauge track to put in flex.


If you do get the fan installed in a Hudson, I would be interested in how it was done. Since I have seen how your Legacy fan driven smoke units work so well that has my attention. In your explanation of the various fan smoke units, you mentioned TMCC which, if you remember. I have adapted for my track power control. It sounds like your fan driven smoke unit of choice is MTH. Do I have to retrofit a Hudson or whatever engine I want a fan unit installed in, to full TMCC? If I do then I guess Golden Hands and I will be doing some business. I'll wait to see what you come up with.

Kenny


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## AmFlyer

Kenny, Ed Goldin does all my conversions. I approached Ed three years ago with the challenge to rip the piston unit out of my AM Northern and put in a fan driven unit. I agreed to pay his time and expenses to perfect it. Ed got it done and also did a second AM Northern for me. The Hudson would not be hard. Put in a DC can motor, put the TMCC and cruise commander boards in the engine and the speaker and railsounds boards in the tender. The tricky part is to work out the trigger and synch to correctly time the 4 chuffs and smoke with the linkage. You do need the full suite of TMCC/Railsounds to make it work.
Carl Tuveson does all the work on the Lionel Legacy engines for me. If you want to see the ultimate TMCC Gilbert 0-8-0 conversion take a look at the masterpiece Carl Tuveson and Robert Buckner made. It is at tuveson.com. I spoke with Carl and Robert about making a duplicate for me. The challenge was all the custom detailing work Robert did before Carl did the conversion. It would have been at least $1,200 plus a donor 0-8-0. Not worth it to me. Converting a Hudson with no custom body detailing would be about $450 plus a donor Hudson. I plan to wait and see what Lionel announces next year for the American Flyer 75th Anniversary.


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> If you want to see the ultimate TMCC Gilbert 0-8-0 conversion take a look at the masterpiece Carl Tuveson and Robert Buckner made. It is at tuveson.com.


That 105 is perfect. Such fine details and the low speed motion is sweet. Lots of hours there but look at the reward. Thanks Tom.


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## AmFlyer

Imagine how nice it would be if Lionel made a detailed Legacy version of the 0-8-0. Unfortunately the Legacy electronics plus a Lionel smoke unit will not fit without a complete re-engineering of the circuit boards so that engine is very unlikely to be made.
Doug, that ultra slow speed the TMCC and Legacy engines are able to deliver is why the piston smoke/choo choo units do not work in the conversions. The piston moves too slow to make sound and smoke puffs. My TMCC light Mikados move at about 1/2" per second on speed step one. Actually not fast enough to close Gilbert knuckle couplers. That is why most of the cars in the freight yard I do switching operations with have link couplers.


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Doug, that ultra slow speed the TMCC and Legacy engines are able to deliver is why the piston smoke/choo choo units do not work in the conversions. The piston moves too slow to make sound and smoke puffs. My TMCC light Mikados move at about 1/2" per second on speed step one. Actually not fast enough to close Gilbert knuckle couplers. That is why most of the cars in the freight yard I do switching operations with have link couplers.


I have been in contact with DigiTrax regarding a sound/motion decoder for the Gilbert S gauge. They replied that they have a Motion Decoder that will interface with their sound bug decoder. That got me thinking....If I install a can motor in one of my 322's, Install the Digitrax decoders, removed the original smoke unit and set up a switch on the old smoke unit push rod gear for the decoder cam gear input and then install an MTH fan unit, although I don't know how it's interface is wired yet. That might be a good project to take on. Thoughts ?


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## AmFlyer

The conversions Ed Goldin did for me use a magnet on a tender axle to trigger the smoke and chuffs. That works if the tender wheel diameter gives 4 chuffs/revolution which is the case with the AM Northern. The two convesions of former Flyerchief engines Carl Tuveson did for me also used the tender wheels for signals. On the Berkshire it worked out to 4 but on the Lionel FlyerChief Northern it worked out to 5 chuffs/revolution. We used that because any other solution would have been far more trouble that it was worth. The smoke units are driven from the TMCC boards.


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## AF-Doc'

I was reviewing the 0-8-0 conversion that Carl Tuveson and Robert Buckner made and liked the setup with the 4 / 5 lobe cam on the old drive gear. If I could find the MTH smoke unit I think I could work out the rest. I guess it's time to contact Mr. Carl. Thanks for the notes on the smoke and chuff triggers. How did you determine the 4 or 5 lobe count?


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## AmFlyer

My AM and Lionel Flyer engines do not use that custom 3D printed lobe trigger. Carl came up with that to use on his Gilbert conversions where the gear drive is present in the old chassis.
I am concerned about the continuing availability of those MTH smoke units. With 8 engines using them I have one fail every 12 to 15 months, and that is with infrequent running. The fan is the usual failure, not the heating element.


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## AF-Doc'

I do have the old chassis that's why when I saw carl's conversion I thought that might be the ticket. I have been digging around on the net looking for smoke generators and for MTH units I'm still looking. Regarding the failure of the fans...do you know if it's the winding or bearings or ? Are the fans replaceable?

Are you still looking for NO. 23 coal in a bag for your Christmas Stocking? I found one for you.


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## AmFlyer

I think Carl and Ed just order them from MTH parts. The bearings can be lubed, the failures are the windings. The units are not usually repairable although if one had some with bad fans and some with bad heaters it may be possible to put the good fans on the good heaters, I do not know. Just so you know Carl and Ed are good friends and share info several times/week.
I was joking about coal in my stocking.


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Just so you know Carl and Ed are good friends and share info several times/week.
> I was joking about coal in my stocking.


Thank you for the heads up and maybe I might develop a friendship with them as well. This 322 project might be a good place to start.
Ok, I'll put the coal in my stocking as I'm sure I'm due. Then into the loader on Christmas morning.


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## AmFlyer

Are you planning on doing this with DCC? If so I am curious what decoder you decide to use.


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Are you planning on doing this with DCC? If so I am curious what decoder you decide to use.


Tom, I do want to use DCC for this project. Here is where I'm open to any and all suggestions regarding decoders. At the present time I have built up a Rivarossi HO layout with Digitrax electronics and use JMRI programing software through a Digitrax PR3 programmer to an isolated track for decoder editing.

I have installed Digitrax and Tsunami decoders and have programed a QSI decoder in a Broadway Limited. I think it is an early Paragon series.
As you can see I did not have a good initial plan with going DCC as I'm all over the board. I've had good success with the Digitrax decoders regarding CV and sound file control but not so much with the Tsunami and QSI units. In addition I have a complete set of Digitrax command and control electronics that I was hoping to use for the Gilbert project.

With all that said I have been in contact with Digitrax regarding a sound/motion decoder that can handle the 2.5 amp stall current of my s-n-s can motors and if they have interface that will handle the smoke and fan unit. On going...

I have also reached out to Carl regarding the cam and smoke generator with a brief outline of my thoughts regarding the Gilbert 322 conversion. On going...

I am hoping that here with you all the pieces of the puzzle can fall into place. I feel I have the skills to do the work and need help with the pieces and parts so that I can do it correct the FIRST time.


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## mopac

Doug, I have a digitrax system also. Super Chief 8 amp system. Radio wireless controllers.
I have 3 Rivarossi Big Boys. Only my 4014 is DCC. I have not converted the others yet. I have
not messed with my HO in almost 5 years. Been messing with AF. I like my BLIs also. I had big 
plans for my Dream Layout in HO. I have almost 500 feet of flex track, still new in the box. And
can't remember how many turnouts I have. Most still new in the package. I even bought a 8 amp
digitrax booster. I only have converted one non DCC engine to DCC. It works great, so I did good.
I have down sized my plans for a HO layout. Over 130 locomotives and over 500 rolling stock.
I sure hope I have a few years left.


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## AmFlyer

I have three engines on their way to Carl. Two are failures of the original smoke units from Lionel. Fortunately these are readily available.
Many people have put can motors in Gilbert Hudsons with DCC decoders, some have sound. Yours might be the first to use a fan driven smoke unit. I did not realize the S-'n-S motors had a 2.5A stall current, I think the Gilbert motors are only 4A. 
Doug, you will need to plan how your layout will be used with DCC because you may want to break it up into Power Districts and blocks. I think most HO DCC layouts are one Power District with multiple blocks. For example my Legacy layout is 8 power districts subdivided into 40 blocks. Each power district has an independent 10A source, total 80A for the layout. Line 1 accommodates 2 trains easily and 3 with a bit of attention. Two trains with modern two motor Legacy diesels plus some passenger cars draw 7A to 8A. If I run 3 trains on line 1 then figure 11A. I have Line 1 split into two Power Districts so that all three can never be in the same district. Mopacs 8A booster will run an entire HO layout but likely only one main line of an S gauge layout based on my experience.


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## mopac

8 amp is really too much for HO. 8 amp can weld the wheels to the rails in a derailment. I have (PR2s I think)
to manage power districts. 2 amps normally enough for a HO power district. Power districts are great to isolate
problems.


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## AmFlyer

That is why you need protection! No welding allowed. I would think in HO 2A to a power district is plenty.


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## AF-Doc'

I was planning to use just the elevated rails, the ones we looked at the solder connections, for the DCC. The Digitrax is an older DB150 rated at 5 amps total. That elevated S track is a 116' loop with 4 power drops evenly spaced around the loop. My Ho is approximately the same loop footage and has a PS2012E 20 amp supply which I think is a little over kill. I have a DCS100 ( 5amp ) which feed the 20 amp supply at present so I could make the HO a 5 amp DCS100 stand alone and then use the 20 and the DB150 for the S rails. I just need to understand how power districts and blocks are structured. I can see having more that one engine on the line at a time maybe in a consist for a long freight.


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## AF-Doc'

Mopac, I also have Rivarossi's in big boys, cab forward, challengers and northern and a few other. Only the cab forward northern and the 4005 B.B. have been changed to DCC motion and sound. I hope too that there is enough time or its going to one large estate sale.

I still need to figure the decoder to smoke generator interface. There in lies the challenge.


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## AmFlyer

My Line 1 is 274' around including a 20' long reverse loop. The line is divided into 6 blocks, three are supplied by Power District (PD) 1 and three from PD 2. The reverse loop, a 7th block, is PD 1 fed through a PSX-AR-AC reverse loop controller. This staggering of PD feeds keeps both sets of engines in separate PD's most of the time.
Can you split the 20A supply into two 10A outputs? 20A at 15V is a very good welder.


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## AF-Doc'

AmFlyer said:


> Can you split the 20A supply into two 10A outputs? 20A at 15V is a very good welder.


Yes the unit allows for 2, 10A or 4, 5A configurations. Yes a good welder it should never be.


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## AF-Doc'

Doug Oconnor said:


> Yes the unit allows for 2, 10A or 4, 5A configurations. Yes a good welder it should never be.


Sorry the main 20Amp supply is split through command and control units. These can be 3, 5 or 8 amp units that can supply the different locations. It is done with fused "Y" connectors from the 20 amp to the other units.

Are the power districts rail isolated from each other?


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## mopac

Yes power districts are isolated. Doug, you might want to see what is available in G scale decoders.
They would be bigger max amp than HO decoders. What I have to manage power districts is a digtrax
product. I think they are PS2s, not sure. But you can adjust them for amp control and short protection.
They each can control 4 power districts. I got 8 amp equipment because it was only 20.00 more than
the 5 amp system when I bought my stuff. I have always been a more power the better type guy.

I have one Rivarossi challenger. #3985. I also got the 2 yellow water tanks that the UP Steam program uses with 4014, 3985, and 844. Detailed very nicely. When I think it was called Model Expo. They closed out their Rivarossi stock I bought several Rivarossi steamers. And I
bought several E8 diesels. The diesels are not really nice HO locomotives but they look great. Drawbacks
are one truck drive and one truck power pickup. Plastic frames. Easy to convert to DCC and I will use the Keep alives. Should overcome the one truck power pckups.


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## AF-Doc'

I have just been looking at the Digitrax PM42 Quad Power Manager on their site. Is this the product like you use? In addition the DCS 100 and DB 150 controllers that I have allow for G or HO or N scale on a switch on the front panel. It changes the voltage and amps by scale. I'm now sure what you would select for S gauge?


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## AmFlyer

For S gauge I would use whatever is 15V to 18V output and use 8A to the track. Pretty sure G scale is over 20V, that is too high for anything in S gauge.


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## mopac

Doug, yes, the device for power management is the PM42s. I drew a blank. Sorry.


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## AF-Doc'

Great thank you, I'm going to start a new post for the project & planning so it all in one place.


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## alaft61ri

Here is more pics of my newer lay out i think i will make a covered bridge did pick up a tresel bridge 5.00 at the hobby shop.


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## mopac

Nice large layout Al. Enjoy.
How many trains can you run at a time?
The new bridge is awesome.


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## AmFlyer

Great progress.


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## AF-Doc'

It's coming along nicely, I love the orange trestle roman arches over the lower track. Well done so far.


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## alaft61ri

Thanks.


mopac said:


> Nice large layout Al. Enjoy.
> How many trains can you run at a time?
> The new bridge is awesome.


Ican run 3


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## AF-Doc'

Running 3 trains is a thing of beauty for sure and I just love bridges and their effect. I only have room for 2 S gauge at present the rest of the real estate is taken by the 2 HO rails.


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## AFGP9

Al your upper level is coming right along. Well done. 

Kenny


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