# Pointers for my yard design?



## Dave NYC 1962 (Oct 17, 2020)

I'm building a dog-bone layout on a shelf. I have space for a small freight yard that also has some integrated industries services. I have my mainlines laid out, but can still change my yard design. The passenger service terminal is actually on the return main headed the other way.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

If you use yard lead A to build a train on track B, how can you get it out to the main?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I thought a "yard lead" actually went somewhere, not just another dead track. It appears all the bottom tracks are just inert storage, no access to the mainlines!


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## Dave NYC 1962 (Oct 17, 2020)

Well, the yard lead (as I call it) leads right on to my A/D track. You can access the ladder or the A/D track. I thought you kept the yard lead off the mainline?

If I build a train on B, wouldn’t I pull it on the yard lead and then onto the A/D track?


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

_RE post 2 above:_

Run the yard lead_ into the Main,_ below (to the left of) "A".
Now you have a long lead for switching AND an "alternative routing" in and out of the yard.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

make this change...


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## Dave NYC 1962 (Oct 17, 2020)

Thanks Dennis, I see this way a train on a sorting track can roll right out to the mainline without maneuvering onto the departure track. I can’t remember now why I didn’t lay it out it that way to begin with - seems too straightforward!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have seen that very well planned industry crossing plan on the top of your layout. I have always admired it. It
adds very interesting switching movements. You might add a passing siding nearby. You'll be pushing
cars into some spurs, backing them into others. You have that in your main yard but not here.

Whichever way you go, the track you use to build a train must be long enuf to fit the longest freight you plan to run.

I had two fair size stub end yards on my layout. I used the diode matrix system to control twin coil turnout
motors. You push one button on your panel and all points are set for your planned route. It sounds complex
but it is very simple and inexpensive. I see you are an experienced electrician. You likely know how
this works. However if you have any questions I'll be glad to help.

I see also that you have streetcar experience. I'm a huge streetcar and tram fan. Hope to pick your brains
on some questions I have. Very sad to see the Girard lihe is bussed again.

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Dave NYC 1962 said:


> I'm building a dog-bone layout on a shelf. I have space for a small freight yard that also has some integrated industries services. I have my mainlines laid out, but can still change my yard design. The passenger service terminal is actually on the return main headed the other way.
> 
> 
> View attachment 548414



Dave;

Your yard tracks are considerably varied in length. That may not matter to you, but we often end up wanting more yard than we have (to store all those cool cars we just had to buy! 😄
You can get a little more yard capacity into the same space, by making the tracks closer to the same length. This involves changing the "yard ladder" (the string of "turnouts," aka track switches, at the right end of your track diagram. If you start on the left and look at the turnouts there, they combine to make a yard ladder that slopes downward from left to right...........At the other end of your yard, the yard ladder slopes upward. This automatically shortens each successive yard track, as you go downward on the diagram.

What I suggest is to move the green (main line?) track at the far right, further down, and build a new yard ladder at this right-hand end of the yard that slopes upward. This will change the overall shape of the yard from an inverted pyramid/trapezoid shape, into a diamond shape, which will have all the tracks closer to equal in length. This will mean that each yard track will be close to the length of your present top yard track. This scheme uses the same number of turnouts, though you may have to purchase right-hand ones instead of left-hand ones for that end of the yard .

A good thing you have already included in your yard design is "simple" ladders. That means that the ladder forms a simple straight track through all the turnouts in it. Many plans use turnouts arranged in such a way that a backing train has to snake back and forth through the ladder. This is harder to do, without derailments, than to back the same string of cars along a straight line until they make only one turn, into the selected track.
This problem doesn't come up as often in a double-ended yard like yours.* The trains move forward much of the time. However, if you want to sort cars into trains, you will have some backing movements, and of course, your stub-end tracks will need to be backed into. 

* I don't know if you have priced turnouts yet, but your design uses a lot of them, and that means a lot of money.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## 65446 (Sep 22, 2018)

For the record a yard lead which dead ends is called a drill track ..which is what Dave has...and is perfectly fine...Some yards have short dead end pocket tracks (pockets) where yard engines nest between jobs....


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

You seem to have an Isomorphic view there, and that may be throwing off the measurements a bit, but it looks like that industry lead is right at 30" of reach from the layout edge, and that's very likely to be right at the very edge of manageable, especially with structures or other trains in the way. You'll need to evaluate whether that's something you want to deal with every time you switch those industries.


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## Maddog (Jan 14, 2016)

I'll second the concern about a comfortable reach. 24" seems to be the accepted standard though you might push it a little. My yard is 27" wide and I wouldn't want to make it any deeper.

You can add operating interest by expanding your passenger terminal and including tracks for REA and mail cars.


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## Dave NYC 1962 (Oct 17, 2020)

CT and Maddog Thanks! I can reach all of the way back now, but I didn’t think about how far with structures and scen in place.


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## Dave NYC 1962 (Oct 17, 2020)

traction fan said:


> Dave;
> 
> Your yard tracks are considerably varied in length. That may not matter to you, but we often end up wanting more yard than we have (to store all those cool cars we just had to buy! 😄
> You can get a little more yard capacity into the same space, by making the tracks closer to the same length. This involves changing the "yard ladder" (the string of "turnouts," aka track switches, at the right end of your track diagram. If you start on the left and look at the turnouts there, they combine to make a yard ladder that slopes downward from left to right...........At the other end of your yard, the yard ladder slopes upward. This automatically shortens each successive yard track, as you go downward on the diagram.
> ...





traction fan said:


> Dave;
> 
> Your yard tracks are considerably varied in length. That may not matter to you, but we often end up wanting more yard than we have (to store all those cool cars we just had to buy! 😄
> You can get a little more yard capacity into the same space, by making the tracks closer to the same length. This involves changing the "yard ladder" (the string of "turnouts," aka track switches, at the right end of your track diagram. If you start on the left and look at the turnouts there, they combine to make a yard ladder that slopes downward from left to right...........At the other end of your yard, the yard ladder slopes upward. This automatically shortens each successive yard track, as you go downward on the diagram.
> ...


Traction,
If I follow you, it seems this will run each sorting track away from the operator towards the wall. This seems harder to couple/uncouple cars. I want the yard big enough to build consists, but I don’t need it to store cars. I have two Hidden staging yards at the end of one dog bone. Sorry you don’t see them on my screen shots.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I thought a "yard lead" actually went somewhere, not just another dead track. It appears all the bottom tracks are just inert storage, no access to the mainlines!


No, a "yard lead" is a track that gives a switcher head room to pull cars out of the yard tracks without running on the main track. It (can and would be most flexible to) have a switch at the far end so it can connect back to the main but it does NOT have to.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Dave NYC 1962 said:


> Thanks Dennis, I see this way a train on a sorting track can roll right out to the mainline without maneuvering onto the departure track. I can’t remember now why I didn’t lay it out it that way to begin with - seems too straightforward!


Actually if you add a crossover in BOTH places, keeping the one in the original location as well, not removing it, then a train can enter the A/D track from the main while a switch engine is working the yard tracks without interfering, OR enter/depart directly to/from a yard track as well. Having TWO crossovers thus makes the thing maximally flexible, although fitting everything into the length does become a consideration.

On the other hand it looks like you have room to shift the entire yard a bit to the right, and shift the right-most turnout leading to the industrial area slightly to the left (so the siding/A-D track switch ends up right of the industrial switch, instead of left of it), maximizing your siding/yard length and not really affecting the industrial area.


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

Some thing like maximizes your use - simply swapping the position of the two switches at top right, and adding a crossover (would nee to use some curved switches and/or shift the yard to the right a bit to fit) but still keep the crossover in the original position.

Also, actually tying the yard lead back to the main (which is easier since the track appears straight there) increases flexibility and also allows a train to leave via the lead if the second crossover can't be fitted in - just the switcher would have to clear up on another track or the ladder.


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