# Coal Dump Coal problem



## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

This coal dump car (b'day gift from my Dad) is so sensitive that any little shake at all causes it to spring. Is there a way to adjust it?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

First question would be which coal dump car specifically, do you have a Lionel model number? 

If it's the mechanical one, I suspect a little filing on the latching mechanism will probably help.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> First question would be which coal dump car specifically, do you have a Lionel model number?
> 
> If it's the mechanical one, I suspect a little filing on the latching mechanism will probably help.



Is there really a difference in them? Figured it was just the markings.

Model number is 6-37019 Thunder Valley Coal Dump Car.

My birthday present from my Dad along with the track piece to operate it and I just hadn't determined exactly where I was putting it and working out the landscape around it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You have this car, it's the mechanical (modern) model. The older one has a solenoid to tip the bin. I've included pictures of both types.

*Modern Magnetically Operated Mechanical Dump Car*










*Postwar Solenoid Operated Dump Car*


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

Yep, I have the top one. Can't say I have ever seen the bottom one.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I have a couple in my closet.  They're the original design, then Lionel decided to lose all the wiring and complexity and just uses the magnetic decoupling track to actuate the dump mechanism.

The neat thing about the old one is the bin closes by itself after it dumps, so you can fill, dump, fill, dump all day without touching it with the HOG (Hand of God) from the sky.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I have a couple in my closet.  They're the original design, then Lionel decided to lose all the wiring and complexity and just uses the magnetic decoupling track to actuate the dump mechanism.
> 
> The neat thing about the old one is the bin closes by itself after it dumps, so you can fill, dump, fill, dump all day without touching it with the HOG (Hand of God) from the sky.


I want the old one then!!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

They come and go on eBay all the time, I sold a couple of them there last winter. There is also the Log Dump Car, another neat operating car for the layout.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

The mechanism of the modern dump car is fairly simple. A spring loaded plunger on the bottom of the car is pulled down by an electromagnet causing the sprung dump mechanism to dump.

From the description of your problem I'm guessing the plunger spring is worn or broken. As a result gravity is causing the plunger to fall down on its own releasing the bin. There is no adjustment but you should have no problem finding a replacement spring from a Lionel parts dealer or directly from Lionel.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

areizman said:


> The mechanism of the modern dump car is fairly simple. A spring loaded plunger on the bottom of the car is pulled down by an electromagnet causing the sprung dump mechanism to dump.
> 
> From the description of your problem I'm guessing the plunger spring is worn or broken. As a result gravity is causing the plunger to fall down on its own releasing the bin. There is no adjustment but you should have no problem finding a replacement spring from a Lionel parts dealer or directly from Lionel.


Sometimes even trying to push it down is almost impossible, it just keeps popping up. I see a spring on the plunger and then another one on a corner of the piece supporting the bin.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> They come and go on eBay all the time, I sold a couple of them there last winter. There is also the Log Dump Car, another neat operating car for the layout.
> 
> I like that one, too.
> 
> ...


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

Without seeing your car, I had a similar problem with my log car (similar).

It turns out one side of the hinge was broken.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

You should have no trouble pushing down the bin. Something could be broken or out of alignment. Unscrew the bin by the screw in the center of the empty bin, and remove from the mechanism and carefully examine the parts to be sure nothing is broken.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

areizman said:


> You should have no trouble pushing down the bin. Something could be broken or out of alignment. Unscrew the bin by the screw in the center of the empty bin, and remove from the mechanism and carefully examine the parts to be sure nothing is broken.



I don't see anything that looks broken. Right now without the bin on it I cannot even get it to stay locked down at all.

Should I post some pictures?


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

A picture would help. It's a very simple design so Im gessing it's a plastic break.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I am attaching two photos that show the common point of breakage. Make sure the pin attached to the dump tray is not broken. It should bond to the release knob on the bottom.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

areizman said:


> I am attaching two photos that show the common point of breakage. Make sure the pin attached to the dump tray is not broken. It should bond to the release knob on the bottom.
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing anything wrong on mine.
> ...


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Nor can I. Hard to tell. Can you use the macro/close up setting on your camera to get a focused photo?

If you cannot press down the bin you will need to carefully examine the dump dray and learn what is preventing you from pushing down the tray.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

areizman said:


> Nor can I. Hard to tell. Can you use the macro/close up setting on your camera to get a focused photo?
> 
> If you cannot press down the bin you will need to carefully examine the dump dray and learn what is preventing you from pushing down the tray.


I will try to get some better pictures.

I had a lot of trouble even getting it to close to take that underside picture. It kept popping up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

KarenORichmond said:


> I had a lot of trouble even getting it to close to take that underside picture. It kept popping up.


Rubber band around the car for the photo.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

Here's a few more...see if you can tell anything from them.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Hmm,

I reviewed the photos and I do not see anything wrong. 

I am holding a similar car in my hand and will describe how the car is supposed to work. Looking at the bottom of the car there are two round buttons. The large one is normally held up by it's spring and gets pulled momentarily down when you activate the uncoupling magnet on your control track. The small button is connected to the tilting tray and is normally held down by the large button. The Large button prevents the tray from springing upward. The large button must be pulled down thus freeing up the small button to tilt out and up.

Check the small spring that pulls the large button up. On my car it's weak. Could be broken on yours too. If the large button does not spring up it will not be in position to hold the tray down when you attempt to lock the tray down. With the tray up, gently pull down on the large button. It should pull back up by itself when you let go. Now with the large button up gently push the tray down. The small button connected to the tray should push the large button to the side and get stuck against it preventing it from popping back until you pull down on the large button thus repeating the process.

Run through this process by hand and observe how the two buttons interact. I'm betting the small spring that controls the large button is the problem. Now that I've taken another look at photo 2 it does not look like it's all there. But I'm wrong a lot. 
Good Luck, let us know how your tests and observations go.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

OK..the plunger moves up and down without any issues. If I pull it down and let go it springs back up immediately. the other piece touches it just fine if I hold down the bin piece. Without holding down the bin by hand it can take many pushes to get it to "stick" down and any jostling whatsoever no matter how light forces it to "dump"

So now while trying to get it to stay down I somehow got the whole thing apart. Looking at the spring on the plunger it looks like it is a whole spring.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

OK Karen it's 3rd down and if this does not help I'm going to have to punt.

If the two buttons are not broken and the large button is held all the way up by the spring the tray cannot pop back up. The large button prevents this from happening unless.......

The last place to look for a problem is where the tilt tray is held down onto the car. There is a fragile pin on each side of the tilt tray that is held down by an equally fragile strip of plastic:









If the pin or the plastic holding it down breaks you will not be able to spring down the tilt tray. Carefully examine the two pins on your tilt tray and make sure they are secured underneath the plastic strips as shown in the picture above. You can replace the tilt tray if that is broken. If it's the plastic strips that hold it down that are broken you will have to repair that with a custom repair.

If none of this seems to apply or you cannot get the car back together the next step is to contact a local service center or Lionel customer service and see if you can send them the car for repair. What part of the country do you live in? There may be a Lionel service dealer nearby that could help.

Good Luck.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

I'm going with punting too! 

I got it back together, it was those little plastic pins that gave me trouble getting back in! They appear to be completely intact.

I'm in Memphis.

The main reason I started this thread was that I called Lionel about it and after asking what I should check, I got put on hold and when she returned told me I should send it in and the cost quoted was more than the car cost. Since it was a gift from my Dad I don't have a receipt. I doubt he would still have it and feel bad asking 'cause putting in the track to make it work got put on the back burner this summer.

Figured I would get to the train shop this week or next and see what they think.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

Took the car to the train shop here last week and the guy there looked at it and wasn't sure either so he wrote up a ticket for it and I left it for the other guy who wasn't in. He called me and said it was all fixed and I headed up today to get it. He replaced the spring and adjusted the mechanism and now it works just fine. Charged me $7 and it was well worth it!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Glad you got it sorted out. I have the feeling this is one of those things that would be easy to fix if I had it in my hand, but hard to do in ASCII.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Glad you got it sorted out. I have the feeling this is one of those things that would be easy to fix if I had it in my hand, but hard to do in ASCII.



I'm sure! And I appreciate everyone's help!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

All's well that ends well, right?


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