# DCC systems



## mulebarn (May 19, 2021)

Our club is moving to DCC and we have looked at Digitrax and NCE. Both appear to be worthy and reliable and will meet our needs but in talking to others it appears that it becomes a personal choice much like do I want to buy a Ford or a Chevy. I have sensed that the learning curve is easier for NCE compared to Digitrax especially when it comes to throttles. Any other thoughts out there in regard to criteria to consider prior to purchase or personal experience with either system and its reliability and ease of use? Also, can anyone speak to the level and timeliness of service for both companies? Thanks


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Quality wise both NCE and Digitrax are equals. Surely, some of your members have
used either of these systems and can discuss the advantages and disadvantages
they have found. It is assumed that your club will have a large layout that several
members can operate at the same time using hand held devices. That means 
that you would need either a system of jacks around the layout for the wired hand helds...
wireless capability if you go that way...or capability of computer connections that
would enable members using smart phones for hand held controllers. You
also likely would need a 'power district' electric system design with 'circuit breakers' for
each...as well as a power booster capable of supporting the number of locos both
with and without sound that you would be using at any one time.

Our members have had specific experience with each of these systems and
can advise on how well they fit the specifications listed and perhaps others
not listed.

An idea of the size of the layout and number of members who would
be using it would be helpful.

Don


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## mulebarn (May 19, 2021)

DonR said:


> Quality wise both NCE and Digitrax are equals. Surely, some of your members have
> used either of these systems and can discuss the advantages and disadvantages
> they have found. It is assumed that your club will have a large layout that several
> members can operate at the same time using hand held devices. That means
> ...


Don
Not extensive experience in the club with DCC. Two of us were tasked with reviewing DCC systems and to come back with a recommendation for the Sept. meeting. We've visited and talked with other who use both systems. Issue is one of us leans to Digitrax and the other to NCE. At this time we would be running 4-6 trains at a time using several members operating such trains. We would like to go wireless and have discussed the need for power districts and circuit breakers. Wiring for one section of the layout is complete. Rough estimate on the size is 30 feet long by 8-10 feet wide. We have older model trains with decoders and sound. We want to have a reliable and *user friendly* system so all can participate. Don't want to expend resources and not have members be able to participate. We also look forward to the ability to expand the system and include additional accessories as part of the DCC operating system. Since you have members with experience with both systems, what is/are the 1 or 2 positive items that was influential in them purchasing either Digitrax or NCE? Thanks


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have no experience with either of the DCC system candidates you
are considering. However, both are leading brands in sales and
in use by many of our members. I hope those members will join your thread
and offer their opinions...ease of operation...availability of wireless
or computer compatibility options. While fascia mounted jacks
around the layout can provide hand held controls, I do believe
your members would prefer a wireless or 'smart phone' system.
It is important that at least one of your members is tech friendly so
he can get your system back up and running if there is a
major crash. 

If you have not already done so, you can take up the question of
how many and where to install isolated power districts protected
by circuit breakers. For multiple
operator systems these are most important. I would think you would
declare big switching yards, layout sections likely to have heavy traffic, 
loco storage and maintenance areas and some long or complex
mainline trackage as probable accidental 'derail' points. You likely
will have industrial or passenger terminal areas also. That's where
you would want isolated circuit breaker control so klutzy operator A's 
derail short resulting from his failure to throw turnout points won't
interfere with the operations of operators B, C, D and E. You definitely
will want to have a 'program' track that will be used to fine tune locos.

Don


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

You want a system that meets your needs. If you figure out what your needs are, the choice between any two systems, and there are many systems across about six different suppliers, will be much easier to decide. There is brand loyalty, evoking comments like "We tried Digitrax but it was too difficult to figure out, so we went with NCE and we love it!" I have seen that posted many times across at least seven hobby fora. Those people are not wrong; they couldn't figure out Digitrax and went with the next supplier on their list. It worked for them. Others, like me, scratch our heads and wonder what all the fuss over Digitrax is all about. I have used my Olde Clunk, the now dated Digitrax Super Empire Builder set, for 15 years. It still works well and has never let me down.

Form factor is important. Not just how kewl the throttle looks, but how it feels in the hand, how utile it is, how easily your hand learns to operate it without having to look, and so on.

Is the system expandable? Does it have something like Digitrax's Loconet? Should your system have something like Loconet? What do people say about the radio/cordless/wireless systems across the web? Anyone have problems with reception, time outs, batteries, ease of replacements of batteries, backlit displays vs LED, and so on? Would having two encoder knobs on a DT-style throttle be useful? Does NCE have that? How about CVP, Lenz, Roco, or MRC? 

What I tell people is that any system that meets your power needs will serve you well. If you can bother to read the manual for half an hour, play with the switches and throttle, you'll soon be having a great deal of fun, and you'll probably stick with that system. They're all well made, all reliable, all robust, all well-engineered....but you have to know what your power requirements are and then shop for the system that meets that need.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Straight-up: this really is a Ford vs. Chevy debate, and you could throw MRC's Prodigy Advance2 Wireless or WiFi models into the mix as a third option. Features, capability, expandability, reliability and really even ease of use are the same. The throttles are set up a little differently, knobs, size, number of buttons, but that's about it. I know people who use and are happy with all 3. I know people who complain about the instructions for all 3. I know people who have switched models/ brands and swear their second choice was divine revelation. It's all personal opinion and preference. If you can get your hands on a sample of each, you may find a preference for one throttle type over another, but that's really going to be the only differentiating factor. There's no clear winner. If there was, everyone would be using it.


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## mulebarn (May 19, 2021)

DonR said:


> Quality wise both NCE and Digitrax are equals. Surely, some of your members have
> used either of these systems and can discuss the advantages and disadvantages
> they have found. It is assumed that your club will have a large layout that several
> members can operate at the same time using hand held devices. That means
> ...


Don
Thanks for the feedback. You have highlighted a few areas that need to be addressed as we move forward.


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## mulebarn (May 19, 2021)

DonR said:


> I have no experience with either of the DCC system candidates you
> are considering. However, both are leading brands in sales and
> in use by many of our members. I hope those members will join your thread
> and offer their opinions...ease of operation...availability of wireless
> ...


Don
Thanks for the advice on the placement of districts and circuit breakers. Looks like additional planning on the future of the layout is necessary for the placement and number of devices.


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## mulebarn (May 19, 2021)

mesenteria said:


> You want a system that meets your needs. If you figure out what your needs are, the choice between any two systems, and there are many systems across about six different suppliers, will be much easier to decide. There is brand loyalty, evoking comments like "We tried Digitrax but it was too difficult to figure out, so we went with NCE and we love it!" I have seen that posted many times across at least seven hobby fora. Those people are not wrong; they couldn't figure out Digitrax and went with the next supplier on their list. It worked for them. Others, like me, scratch our heads and wonder what all the fuss over Digitrax is all about. I have used my Olde Clunk, the now dated Digitrax Super Empire Builder set, for 15 years. It still works well and has never let me down.
> 
> Form factor is important. Not just how kewl the throttle looks, but how it feels in the hand, how utile it is, how easily your hand learns to operate it without having to look, and so on.
> 
> ...


M
You raise some good points and as I read through your response I hear some familiar answers to my questions. Other than your technical comments, the form factor interests me to the point that I want the members to feel comfortable using the system which will encourage greater involvement. I presume that whatever is selected, one will get used to the system after an initial learning curve. With a group that is post retirement, I want them to feel comfortable from the start which I think will encourage greater invovlement. Thanks


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

i looked at digitrax and nce , finally went with mrc ....their user manual s on the back of the handheld ... easy to set up and use .... haven't regretted it ... mine is a prodigy advance 2


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## mulebarn (May 19, 2021)

wvgca said:


> i looked at digitrax and nce , finally went with mrc ....their user manual s on the back of the handheld ... easy to set up and use .... haven't regretted it ... mine is a prodigy advance 2


Thanks for responding. I have heard some good things about the Prodigy as well. Need more coins to flip.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

I started out with a NCE system, then switched to Digitrax, been using them for 20 years. Nothing wrong with the NCE, the Digitrax system better fit the way I run trains, with the two throttles in one. Digitrax service has been outstanding. You need to decide what your needs are, and go from there.


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## billwiz (Dec 3, 2019)

mulebarn said:


> Our club is moving to DCC and we have looked at Digitrax and NCE. Both appear to be worthy and reliable and will meet our needs but in talking to others it appears that it becomes a personal choice much like do I want to buy a Ford or a Chevy. I have sensed that the learning curve is easier for NCE compared to Digitrax especially when it comes to throttles. Any other thoughts out there in regard to criteria to consider prior to purchase or personal experience with either system and its reliability and ease of use? Also, can anyone speak to the level and timeliness of service for both companies? Thanks


I have NCE for my layout. Had a small problem, their customer service handled it quickly and efficently. Both systems have excellent reputations. Do any of the members use DCC at home and what brands? That can make the decision easier. Other thought is to check with other clubs for their opinions - club use is different than personal/home use.
I am pretty sure that the Schuylkill Valley Railroad in Phoenixville, PA uses NCE.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

*OP:*

If you're still in the "investigating" stage, take a look at the DigiKeijs DR5000:








DR5000 - DCC Multi-bus command station


DR5000 DCC multi-bus command station for your model railwayAt Digikeijs, we sell the DR5000 - DCC multi-bus command station for your model railway. The DR5000 - DCC multi-bus command station is the command station with all imaginable bus connectors combined in one single device. The multi-bus...




www.digikeijs.com




_(this is produced in Europe but there are USA sources as well)._

It looks like it can work with a number of different handhelds from other manufacturers, and it has wifi built directly into it as well, so it can work with (at least some) wifi control systems (such as the free Roco z21 control software).

I don't have one (I have a z21 control box), but the reviews and videos I've seen of it look impressive. Again, just one more piece of hardware to check out...


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## mulebarn (May 19, 2021)

billwiz said:


> I have NCE for my layout. Had a small problem, their customer service handled it quickly and efficently. Both systems have excellent reputations. Do any of the members use DCC at home and what brands? That can make the decision easier. Other thought is to check with other clubs for their opinions - club use is different than personal/home use.
> I am pretty sure that the Schuylkill Valley Railroad in Phoenixville, PA uses NCE.


Bill
Thanks for the information. None of the members uses DCC at home. In checking with other clubs I have found that both Digitrax and NCE are used and 1 club that uses Digitrax wishes they had NCE and spoke very strongly about their desire to have NCE but to switch over now is costly.


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## BikerDS (May 1, 2012)

I had Digitrax for a number of years, and it worked well for wired throttles, and for wireless simplex throttles, but was very problematic when it came to duplex operation due to their choice of wireless frequency. After spending time with their tech support, the conclusion was two fold: I was getting a lot of interference from other sources (garage door openers, cordless phones, etc) and that I needed more transceivers (UR92's) around the train room to compensate for signal absorption from human bodies (the tech explained that we are mostly water and that was attenuating the signal).

I gave NCE a try and the problems went away. I would recommend, if you decide that Digitrax is the way you want to go, you give the wireless a try on a small scale and make sure it works in your location.


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## ncng (Sep 29, 2011)

The club I belong to and my home layout both use Digitrax. The biggest plus for Digitrax is signaling support. Other than that, I would say it is user preference.

If your club plans to have signals, the Digitrax BDL-168 is a very cost effective detection board along with the SE8c signal driver board. The BDL-168 supports 16 detection blocks at about $7 per block (Iron Planet Hobbies Pricing). The SE8C supports 32 signal heads with 4 signal aspects per head AND it includes 8 outputs to stationary switch machines (Tortoise), AND it support 8 pushbutton inputs, AND it provides support for 8 additional inputs like support for BD4 detectors (not recommended). That is a lot of functionality for $96 (Iron Planet Hobbies Pricing).

JMRI supports the Digitrax signaling products for computer logic control.

David


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## Fifer (Apr 21, 2011)

NCE is easier and likely more user friendly but I and our club, have to use Digitrax as we have nearly 50 turnouts and all are operated with the DCC. This can be done with NCE but you need to enter acc. mode and then once you throw a turnout, it kicks you back to the throttle and you then need to re-enter acc. mode to throw another. This can be cumbersome. The Digitrax continues to not only show the two locos being run but you go into switch mode and it will stay there and throw as many turnouts as necessary and then YOU decide to exit. Those are my sole reason for Digitrax.
Mike


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

OP wrote:
_"None of the members uses DCC at home..."_

Important info there.
In that case, if you were going to install dcc *at the club only,* you could do this:

Get the Digikeijs DR5000 (which I mentioned above).
Set it up on the club railroad to use the Roco z21 control software_ (which is absolutely FREE)._

Now, all your club members will need to run trains is a smartphone or tablet (can be either Android or iOS, there is z21 software for both).

They can control their dcc locos on the club RR, *WITHOUT HAVING TO BUY ANYTHING AT ALL for their personal use* (other than smartphones or tablets, which I reckon they may already have).

DR5000 control box is about $200.
You'll probably need some booster units at the club, Digikeijs has those as well.

But again, once you install this hardware, no member will have to buy anything at all, because the Roco z21 control app IS FREE to use and works with the DR5000.

Don't fall into the "either, or" trap of Digitrax v. NCE.
There ARE other options out there, which are actually better.

If you want to preview the z21 software yourself, just go to google play or Apple's App Store and search for "roco z21".
The app you want has a red engine on a blue background.

I suggest you try it. It will "open your eyes" as to how trains can be controlled...

It's FREE and will hurt nothing -- you can explore it "in demo mode".
When done, just delete it if you don't want to investigate further.

But it's perhaps the slickest "control app" out there.
Great for programming, too.


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## VTtrainguy (Jan 18, 2019)

I'm a space limited small scale railroader with dreams of empire, and started with NCE for reasons of initial cost, learning curve, and appreciation of their design philosophy. I do realize that Digitrax is probably a better choice for a large scale multi operator layout, but doubt I'll ever go there, as I've been seduced by Arduino and JMRI. Being an amateur DIYer, I've discovered that this approach is inexpensive, easy, and seems to have a never ending stream of new features and capabilities. There are whole hosts of tutorials online, both text and video, on how to do this. Start with Tom's Trains on YouTube and go from there.
If you have enough skill to solder feeders to rails and read a multimeter you can build just about anything you need for any size layout, signaling system, or switchyard. And I can run it all from my cellphone, tablet, or computer. I was able to set up for single train wireless operation for $55, and no soldering. I had to double my DCC loco fleet size from one to two before I could run multiples. On an HO size loco, installing a simple decoder in a non-DCC locomotive is an easy enjoyable project. It may take you two or three hours the first time. After that, a piece of cake. N scale is more of a challenge, but gives you even more sense of accomplishment in the end. Y'all have fun now, hear?


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

The Digikeijs and Roco combination is NOT the only system that gives you the advantage that @J.Albert1949 mentions. Digitrax makes a LNWI wifi interface that allows you to connect to the layout with a tablet or phone as a throttle. The throttle software is free for both Apple and Android systems. I have used it on my phone, but then bought a tablet just to use as a throttle. The tablet is about a 5x7 inch size and lets me run 6 virtual throttles at one time. The phone was limited to two because of the screen size. 

Since you mentioned that some of the member are post retirement, I take that to indicate that they might not be as tech savvy as some people are. That is not an insult or complaint (my wife refuses to give up her flip phone for a smart phone still), but it does mean this may or may not be a point to consider. Having to buy an extra interface like this for Digitrax may make it more expensive to the club. I would suggest checking if NCE also has a similar device and software.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> The Digikeijs and Roco combination is NOT the only system that gives you the advantage that @J.Albert1949 mentions. Digitrax makes a LNWI wifi interface that allows you to connect to the layout with a tablet or phone as a throttle. The throttle software is free for both Apple and Android systems. I have used it on my phone, but then bought a tablet just to use as a throttle. The tablet is about a 5x7 inch size and lets me run 6 virtual throttles at one time. The phone was limited to two because of the screen size.
> 
> Since you mentioned that some of the member are post retirement, I take that to indicate that they might not be as tech savvy as some people are. That is not an insult or complaint (my wife refuses to give up her flip phone for a smart phone still), but it does mean this may or may not be a point to consider. Having to buy an extra interface like this for Digitrax may make it more expensive to the club. I would suggest checking if NCE also has a similar device and software.


Truth be told, the Roco z21 / Digikeis is hardly the be all to end all system that J.Albert imagines it to be, even though he shamelessly plugs it as such every time the topic comes up. It would be nice if he could give a clear-eyed evaluation of its strengths and weaknesses instead of the puppy-eyed fanboy love letter, but I don't think any of us expect differently by now.

Most importantly, the very thing that he touts as it's biggest selling point (use of smartphones / tablets) is actually it's weakest point. As Steve rightly points out, all the other major systems offer their own version of a Wifi interface that can use smartphones and tablets,, so it really isn't an advantage at all. More importantly, a touchscreen is probably the worst option for the way a typical club operated-- it has no tactile feedback at all, and so requires looking at the screen, it is almost impossible to operate one handed, and it is much more difficult to achieve fine control in a touch screen than with a knob or dial. I also don't know of any clubs that require members to provide their own throttles -- they want to provide the throttles so the configuration can be managed, and certainly, the last thing I'd want to deal with while running an operating session is the roboczlls, text / chat messages, and other notifications that routinely and frequently pop up on my phone (and I'm not about to reconfigure all these so I CAN use it as a throttle).

For club use, I don't think that Roco or Digikeis merits serious consideration.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

One other thing to consider, is local support. Is there a local dealer, that sells/supports either the Digitrax, or the NCE system? Having a local dealer that can help implement, I think having local support for your system of choice would be a big plus.


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