# Question About Scarm



## N-gauged (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm try'n to design a layout use'n Scarm but I don't understand the track height.

This is a sample of what I don't understand.
The track is ten feet long and the end that you can't see is at ground level (0).
The end in the pic says 1.02 with 8% grade.

What is the actual height of the track on the end that says 1.02?









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## N-gauged (Mar 27, 2011)

No one knows what that number means?
I'm really confused about that number.​


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know, but do you really want an 8% grade?


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## N-gauged (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't know if I want an 8% grade or not.
I'm not sure what is the max % of grade a train can go up with out a problem.

I actually want my track to be 2" above the baseboard.
But scarm shows that in a ten foot span 2" to 0" is a 17% grade.
It shows that the track would have to go from 2" to 0" over a 40' (forty feet) span just to have a 4% grade.

That's a lot of track.
I'd have to go around all four walls in my room to get the train to the top and then
around all four walls again to get it back down.
That just doesn't seem right to me.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I don't know but found this,


*How to set heights and slopes?* - Setting of heights and slopes allows deploying of layout track route in more than one level. To start doing this, toggle "View" > "Show Track Heights" from the menu. The heights will be drawn at track ends and their initial values will be zeroes.








To change the height (or the slope) of given track (or track section), first of all the track (or section) must be selected and then you will be able to select desired height with left mouse button. You cannot directly select and change heights of tracks which are not selected.








Use mouse wheel to set the selected height. Hold Shift for bigger changing step. Setting of height will form the slope of selected track or section automatically. Gradient will be shown in thousandths with colour, depending on length and angle: up to 25‰ - green; up to 40‰ - yellow; over 40‰ - red. Positive values are representing climb to selected height, while negative values are for descend.








All type of tracks can have different heights, but only straights, curves and flex-tracks can form slopes, because only they can have independent heights on both ends. To set same heights for all tracks in the selected track section, select any height from it, set the desired height level and press Enter. Use 3D Viewer in order to see the different heights in the layout – the program will automatically place required supports under tracks with heights greater than zero.



I found that under their FAQ'S,

HERE,
http://www.scarm.info/index_en.html


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

N-gauged said:


> I don't know if I want an 8% grade or not.
> I'm not sure what is the max % of grade a train can go up with out a problem.
> 
> I actually want my track to be 2" above the baseboard.
> ...


Ahhh... I wonder if you're getting units / decimals mixed up somewhere...

A 2" rise over 10' (or 120") is a grade of 2/120 = 0.017 = 1.7% ... NOT 17%. Are you sure you don't have units or values mixed up somewhere?

TJ


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## N-gauged (Mar 27, 2011)

TJ, actually the author of the software explained it to me so I think I understand it now.

The % in the program is actually ‰ which is a thousandths or something.
So 17‰ is 1.7%

I did have the units are values or ? mixed up but I understand it now.
And thanx for your explanation, that helps me under stand it better too.

Now as for the comment I made in the previous post about not knowing whether or not I wanted a grade of 8%,
well I also learned that I don't because that is twice what the max grade should be.

See, you can teach an old dog new tricks!
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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd suggest you stop tinkering with the fonts and just use the forum default. I thought you had a long signature line at first.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd suggest you stop tinkering with the fonts and just use the forum default. I thought you had a long signature line at first.



Me to at first.
Nicely laid out in pretty blue though (my favorite color):thumbsup:
Easy reading too.:thumbsup:

I guess the crap I tried to help him with was no good?

Confused the ____ out of me too.:laugh:

Oh well I try.hwell:


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## Mixy (Dec 14, 2010)

Hello 

Yes, the confusing is coming because now SCARM uses *‰* (thousands) to display gradients, as it is most common used in Europe. But the sign for thousands is pretty close visually to sign for % (percents) and most people do not notice the little circle in the end 

So I decided to change the gradients in next release of SCARM to be displayed in percents by default, with option for switching between percents and thousands.

In the picture from the N-gauged’s post, the value in red is the height (in inches) and the value in green is the gradient (in thousands) thus 8‰ are equal to 0.8%. SCARM is showing gradients up to 2.5% in green, up to 4% in yellow and above 4% in red.

Mixy


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Mixy said:


> Hello
> 
> Yes, the confusing is coming because now SCARM uses *‰* (thousands) to display gradients, as it is most common used in Europe. But the sign for thousands is pretty close visually to sign for % (percents) and most people do not notice the little circle in the end
> 
> ...


I have not ever used any track planning software....so it doesn't take much to confuse me.

Maybe when I start my HO I will give it a try.
I would have to learn it. 

Right now I just plan it in my head and go from there, though that changes as I go along.hwell:

It looks like a nice layout track planning software, thanks for your work making it.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## N-gauged (Mar 27, 2011)

Big ed, it is a really good program and not hard to figure out.
I just have never seen the double zero percent sign before and was confused about the number.
But now that I know what it means it isn't a problem any more.
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## lynbarn (Apr 23, 2011)

Mixy said:


> Hello
> 
> Yes, the confusing is coming because now SCARM uses *‰* (thousands) to display gradients, as it is most common used in Europe.


I hope I'm not going to confuse things again, but in the UK, gradients are traditionally shown as, e.g. "1 in 495", "1 in 50" etc. (up 1 unit in every 50 units), or 2%!

regards,

Martyn


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