# Gilbert mfg vs Lionel mfg, S gauge Differences



## Old feller (Mar 30, 2012)

Friends,

I have an opportunity to purchase items from a large American Flyer collection, mostly purchased from modern manufacturers, e.g. Lionel. Most of it I believe has been manufactured by Lionel and other companies that have been making S gauge items.
Since I have only post war AF stuff. I have never seen up close locos and cars made by other mfgs. I am mainly looking to get diesels, specifically a Northern Pacific N Coast Limited, and maybe others.
So could you enlighten me as to any differences in the Old AF made diesels and the more modern ones made by other manufactures? Better quality? Worth more? Still run with old AF transformers....etc.
Thanks.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

If the engines are Flyer by Lionel they will all run on Gilbert AC transformers. some newer ones could have TMCC or Legacy. Quality is a matter of opinion. I think except for the Erie PA's they are fine. The newer releases seem to get better in my opinion. I own a lot of the TMCC and Legacy engines. The green North Coast Limited by Lionel is a great set.
If the engines were made by American Models or S Helper Service (SHS) you need to verify they are AC Highrail versions If you want to run them with AC transformers on Gilbert track. I feel the quality of these brands is high. I own a lot of them.


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## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

AmFlyer is right about that Erie set. I've heard alot of bad things about it. Some of the Lionel diesels, 1990ish, seem to have quite a few problems, but S Helper and American Models seem to be of great quality. I have only post war diesels from American Flyer and they seem to be very good product, with a few quirks.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

AmFlyer pointed out that you need to determine if the S-Helper or American Models engines are AC powered or DC. I was successful in getting some of these in auctions, but have no idea what type of power they use. I'm hoping that there is a way to determine that either by numbering or by contacting the manufacturer. If anyone has ideas how to determine it, please let me know.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

The paste-on label on the box identifies them as either AC High rail, DC High rail or DC scale. The AM engines also have with or without sound. Given that I may be the rare exception that has all the OB's, the only way I know for sure is to remove the tender shell or the diesel shell and look at the circuit boards. I am not a student of the details of these engines so there may be some other detail visible I am not aware of.
I purchase almost all my AM diesels as DC high rail no sound since I converted them all to TMCC/Railsounds. I did not notice any difference externally visible with the AC version.


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## llskis (Apr 11, 2013)

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> AmFlyer pointed out that you need to determine if the S-Helper or American Models engines are AC powered or DC. I was successful in getting some of these in auctions, but have no idea what type of power they use. I'm hoping that there is a way to determine that either by numbering or by contacting the manufacturer. If anyone has ideas how to determine it, please let me know.


Don: I suspect a lot of these engines that are bought at auctions have no box. The number on the engines will not tell how it is powered. Simply remove the body and see if there is a circuit board which would indicate the switching of current>thus-AC powered. If no board and motor is wired direct then it is DC. Most AC American Models Loco's (W/O sound) will also run on DC but not the other way around. Larry


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Cant coment on the trains, but I have a few newer Lionel ( flyer copied ) made accessories, they work just like the older ones. Look good too. Now you got me thinking about the older stuff I bought and never put on the layout!


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