# Another Disappointing Show



## Zero Cool (Dec 4, 2013)

A friend and I went to the show at Hara Arena this past weekend and needless to say, we were lucky to see over 25 vendors there. We were able to get a few new things but over all there really wasn't much there.

If that wasn't bad enough, I tried to speak with one or two gentlemen (and I use the term loosely) that were there from a local club and I asked if they were looking for new members. He acted like I was invading his territory and just tried to brush me off. Most of the members there would not even look at me or my buddy. Aren't we supposed to be growing this hobby and not hording it all to ourselves? Very disappointing to say the least.

I guess I will have to start am HO club here in the Dayton area and show this other club how its done!:smilie_auslachen:


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

If it was a modular club, they were probably busy trying to get the layout working properly. For the most part, modular clubs only work and repair their modules at the shows.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Still no excuse to be anti-social.......hwell:


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

D&J Railroad said:


> If it was a modular club, they were probably busy trying to get the layout working properly. For the most part, modular clubs only work and repair their modules at the shows.


Still no excuse for being rude or anti-social, take your pick.


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## golfermd (Apr 19, 2013)

+1 to the above. I don't know of any club that I have heard about who hasn't loved getting new blood (with the additional funds infusion).


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## Zero Cool (Dec 4, 2013)

D&J Railroad said:


> If it was a modular club, they were probably busy trying to get the layout working properly. For the most part, modular clubs only work and repair their modules at the shows.


from what I could tell the layout was running just fine. We were looking at joining up, but not so sure now.


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## Zero Cool (Dec 4, 2013)

Guys, please let make another about my opening post for this thread. 

First, I'm not trying to throw under the bus here. But it seems like I read a lot of posts and articles about how to grow the hobby, and then this happens. I guess it really threw me off guard.

Second, I really want to not only see this hobby grow, but I want to grow with it and learn. That's one of the reasons I joined this forum. The person I tried to speak with was older, but even the few young members I tried to speak with walked by as if I wasn't even there. To me, if you're at a show and you're a member of any organization you should always be open to talk with anyone. IMO, that's how you grow the hobby.

Like I said before, I wasn't trying to throw anyone under the bus. I guess I just needed to vent some.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

What show was it and what was the club name?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Maybe that was why the show is a flop.
They probably do that to more than you and people don't ever return. :stroke::smilie_daumenneg:

If I got the cold shoulder treatment like that, I would tell them where to go and if I paid to get in I would demand my money back. :smokin:


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## Zero Cool (Dec 4, 2013)

It was a Great Train and Model show. It was advertised in Model railroader. Like I said before, I'm not going to mention the name of the club, but there are local to the Dayton area.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So, to clarify, the show itself was good, just the attitude of some club members was lousy?

Because reading your original thread title, it sounds like the show itself was disappointing......


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

At the very least, they should have said, "I can't talk right now. We are still getting things up and running. Can you come back in an hour or two?"


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## hoscale37 (Nov 20, 2011)

I went to this show last year or the year before last and had some rudeness thrown at me by some older folks who stated when I was looking for some Seaboard Coast Line related HO scale stuff, "That's not a very popular line." Kind of threw me off because I wasn't expecting that type of response. 

I've only been back into the hobby since 2011, so I don't know alot about everything in the hobby. I hate to put this bluntly- but those of you who have been in the hobby for 30-40-50 years really need to back off and give some of the newer people here and at shows, that are trying to get into this hobby a real break. We don't know everything that you know, and it seems like there is a real divide when it comes to starting up a layout and whether it is set up to run DC or DCC... 

This isn't an end all be all hobby- but I have noted over the past 3-4 years that some people live, eat and breathe model railroading... it's a hobby, and should be treated as such. 

Sorry if I have offended anyone but I can agree with the thoughts in this thread about there being some lacking mutual respect for those of us who are still new to the hobby. 

Just my two cents for what its worth.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If new people don't come into the hobby, it will die. I try to encourage newcomers and especially the kids at shows. There's no cause for rudeness, but when we're setting up, or when I'm running and have two and sometimes three trains I'm controlling, I have told folks that I can't talk right now, I try to be nice about it.


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## Zero Cool (Dec 4, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> So, to clarify, the show itself was good, just the attitude of some club members was lousy?
> 
> Because reading your original thread title, it sounds like the show itself was disappointing......


In general it was dissapointing. Not that many venders at all. I would say maybe 25 or 26 at most. we were done with the complete show, including lunch, in less than two hours. Then you throw in the rudeness of the club, it just made it worse. 

On a bright note, we talked to a gentlemen who owns a company called lundestudios. If I'm not mistaken he used to own DPM models, then retired, then came out of retirement to do this. His stuff really looks realistic, and how it gets assembled is truly inovative. I ended up spending $60 with him. Here's his website

http://www.lundestudios.com/


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## nvrr49 (Feb 11, 2014)

I agree with HOscale37. There are a lot of old pains in a$$ in life.


Kent in KC
[email protected]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## FRED On Board (Jan 2, 2014)

FWIW...

I have three major hobbies and I attend shows, meets, conventions and 'fests for the first two of these three: amateur radio, photography and model RR. ...I've also been to shows and conventions as a vendor and as an atendee in the furniture industry, computer industry and many years ago, in the petroleum industry...Shows in major markets from the East Coast to Denver, Colorado...What I've concluded from these events is that the human landscape is really very much the same regardless of the reason for the mass gathering...Some friendly to differing degree, some not so friendly, to differing degree...A reflection of culture and society, at large and maybe an individual case of simply "getting out of bed on the wrong side on that particular day." 

Some older folks at or nealy at Senior Citizen stage can be cranky, so brush it off as to the quirkiness of their persona, attitude and impatience in their old age...And, keep that in mind next time you feel that cold wind of what you interpret as unfriendliness...It's their problem...Don't make it yours! 

Speaking from experience, now at a calendar age of 68 and a mental age that I'm still trying to figure out.

Bruce /FRED On Board
ATSF, BN, SP, UP


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

Amateur radio? that sounds awesome should investigate that...

Anyway, one of the things I think to understand is that people are under a lot of pressure to keep their layout running. Big layouts need an awful lot of work and effort to transport them to the venue and keep them running. As such, it can be pretty exhausting, and understandably people get a bit cranky and don't have time to answer questions.

They are displaying the layout though to the public, and really don't have an excuse to be rude. They shouldn't have just treated you like that In addition they aren't doing any good for their own hobby, they should be encouraging people!

Don't be put off though, you will find some good model train enthusiasts out there!


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## ncng (Sep 29, 2011)

Sorry to hear. I used to live in the Dayton area and looked forward to the Hara Arena shows. That was 20 years ago though. I now live in Chehalis WA and belong to the club that is having a show on 29-30 Mar. We always go out of our way to be helpful and friendly to both our vendors and visitors while also keeping the selling and admission fees as low as possible. That way everyone is happy and we keep the venue full of both vendors and visitors. We are located in a small town but we still sell out every year.

David


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

One very disappointing thing I keep running into at train shows is that it gives everyone an opportunity to show how much better they are than someone else because of the toys they own or operate.

I get so sick of the attitudes, put downs, insults, back handed compliments, and arrogance. I think that the arrogance that sickens me the most.

I'll never understand why this happens so much at train shows. 

Maybe they are right...maybe they are better than I am because they run brass HO only, or they only use Ross switches, or collect only high grade postwar O...

I just try to be friendly to everyone: no put downs, no condescending attitudes, no arrogance, and I try to always be positive towards other people's interests even when I could care less about it.

We need to be encouraging to each other as train enthusiasts, no matter what scale, road name, brand name, etc...this hobby is supposed to be about having fun. 

Somewhere, along the way, we've forgotten that it is supposed to be a hobby.


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

20 posts, looks like my experience at the local club carries over to shows. Disappointing at best. 
We have all worked under pressure and extreme deadlines but I see no excuse for rudeness at clubs and shows. This is a hobby meant for enjoyment. It's not life and death. John is right, unless there's new blood the hobby will suffer and die. You won't get new/younger people to join if they see the club as a group of crotchety old men.

There's no reason when setting up a layout at a show to do major repairs. All work should have been done and checked prior to packing it up. Small 10 minute repairs yes, but again nothing major.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Obviously Jack, you haven't had a lot of experience with a significant modular layout.


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

A "significant modular layout" can be a excuse for rudeness? I did not know that.
I'll go out on a limb and say prepping a race car is a lot more involved and complicated than your modular setup. We never got a "surprise" at the track and had to perform repairs because we ran checks and double checks before loading up. Going through Nascar tech puts more pressure on you than a fat lady does on her flip flops, yet we smiled and were never rude.

Maybe better prep before you leave would eliminate problems and put a smile on your face. 
There's still no reason for rudeness.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice selective reading Jack.  Let me refresh your memory.



> There's no reason when setting up a layout at a show to do major repairs. All work should have been done and checked prior to packing it up. Small 10 minute repairs yes, but again nothing major.


I never said or implied that any of our club members were rude at any time. Maybe reading comprehension classes are in order, I'm sure the local HS has night classes.


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## Gansett (Apr 8, 2011)

Right again John, as you always (think) you are.


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## Broketraincollector (Mar 11, 2014)

100% new to trains but had a disappointing time at my first Train Festival. It was at Esmond Station here in Tucson Az. Walked up to the school and it was nothing but arts and crafts type stuff (none related to trains). saw a petting zoo and jumping castles and more crafts stuff. then we finally found the "trains". It was in a small room and it had 1 lay out of a HO train. 3 "old" guys were really nice. Son (4) pulled a seat up next to one of them and watched trains for a hour or so. Younger guy was pretty into trying to get something working and he kept almost making 2 trains wreck into each other. Kinda bummed seen how I know nothing about trains. I though there would have been more on display and stuff for sale. Hopefully next thing I go has more options.


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## Locodub (Nov 18, 2013)

A positive experience can make all the difference in the world, at a train show or at a club. I joined the local club because they were always friendly, and would talk to me at their open houses. Once I joined and became more involved, I did start to notice some politics, but I don't think you can get away from that anywhere in life. We've had some new members join the past few years, and major changes followed. Good changes that were supported by all involved members. We are currently looking at the club bylaws, plan to upgrade the final HO line to run both DCC and DC, and we're looking at improvements to our O and G scale layouts. I hope you have some good experiences in the future, this is a great hobby to be a part of.


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## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

I have yet to find anyone at a show that has been rude or refused to speak with me when I approached them -- including GunRunnerJohn. Although he was quite busy when I first saw him and knew enough to let him get things in order before approaching. This type of treatment would be a first for me and I've been attending shows nearly every Sunday for 3 years now. It's sad to think this may have occurred. But as others have speculated, the person(s) may have been having some overwhelming issues at the time. I would have brushed it off and perhaps returned later when things might have calmed down.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

This year's "big train show" in Jacksonville was awful! Poor selection, rude jerks and high prices. Hell, coulda went on eBay for better deals. Some of these club members are true a**holes! Heck, if it ain't Athearn or some silly high price train, can't run it in my club and if ain't one of these, it's junk and you're not welcomed! I'll just stay at home and run 'em by myself! HUH! At least the local slot car race track has helpful and nice people!


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

That's really sad
I mean come on not everyone can afford to buy the most expensive trains out, clubs should be about having fun and learning, it's a hobby!:laugh:
Besides, you learn lot's by tinkering with old trains


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

The attitude Tyco Man got was wrong BUT, as a former club member of a large HO modular layout, I can understand where they're coming from.

Let me give you (2) examples and I'll get off my soap box...


Example 1: New member to the club decided his "train" would be a bunch of billboard boxcars. You've all seen them - Tyco, Bachmann, etc - for Rice Krispies, Corn Flakes, Keebler, etc. This member brought them to a show, did absolutely no work to them, plopped them on the track with horn hook couplers, and proceeded to tie up the mainline with derailment after derailment. This despite the fact that the club had standards of Kadee couplers and properly weighted (NMRA standards) cars. Those standards weren't enforced at the time. What a blasted headache that was. My dad and I showed him how to weight the cars, install Kadees, and replace the plastic wheel sets with either Athearn or Kadee to get the trains to track right. This is a case where the cheapest stuff simply didn't work. 

**Some time after this event though, the club purchased a section of rail, mounted it to a board and put a Kadee height gauge on it. If the car didn't pass, it either got fixed and retested OR was removed. While not addressing weight, it did at least address coupler pins and height. It also fell out of favor before I left the club so no idea what they do now.


Example 2: Old time member who also knew the standards brought out his Overland Models brass equipment. Probably 2k worth of equipment and that was big $$ back in the mid 80's. Proceeded to bring it to a show, put it on the rails, again no work done to it, and proceeded to tie up the mainline with uncoupling and derailments. Even after being shown what was wrong with his equipment he proceeded to keep bringing it to show after show. These trains ended up being parked because of the hassle they created. This is a case where blowing big bucks on trains also didn't work.


So without knowing what club Tyco Man talked to and what they've seen, while the reaction was a bit overboard, it might have been based off their current standards and what they, over the course of many shows, have found runs well on their layout. Not saying its right or wrong as older equipment CAN be made to run IF you put in the time and effort. BUT, again off past experience, not knowing your modeling history, it can influence someone's willingness to run stuff.

I know when I was part of that club, we'd have visitors bring an entire train with them to run. More often than not, I'd park my train and put theirs on IF it was compatible with our DC system. After a few laps, and normally fighting with the equipment, we'd remove it and return it to its owner as they were thankful to see it actually run. But there were also times that we'd be able to look at a train and graciously say, sorry, not happening.


I will also say that the clubs are getting more members of the "me, now" generation. While that's helping to pay dues and swell their ranks, it does cause issues where being polite and answering questions. Let's face it, unfortunately we're not getting any younger so its the next generation, who unfortunately think they're entitled to everything with no work being put in, that's leading the charge. Don't get me wrong, this isn't every club or every club member but I am seeing it locally in my neck of the woods.


I'm off my soapbox...carry on.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well that was interesting, but the original post in this thread was train club members being rude to the public, just while trying to speak with them, never mind asking to run their own trains on the show layout.

Still, there's no excuse for being rude to people for any reason, whether it is about trains or anything else in life.....

As the old saying goes; "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".....


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

I was responding to Tyco Man's post about being told that only Athearn equipment can run on their layout, all others stay out.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

OK, sorry about that.

You do make valid points about that aspect of it, for sure! :thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Old_Hobo said:


> Well that was interesting, but the original post in this thread was train club members being rude to the public, just while trying to speak with them, never mind asking to run their own trains on the show layout.
> 
> Still, there's no excuse for being rude to people for any reason, whether it is about trains or anything else in life.....
> 
> As the old saying goes; "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".....


You're right about the rude part.
But you will catch more flies with _hit than honey.



briangcc said:


> I was responding to Tyco Man's post about being told that only Athearn equipment can run on their layout, all others stay out.


Now that is rude. :smokin:


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

I see your point, sure. If the trains can't run and are complete rubbish then no people shouldn't put them on until they are ready to work well, otherwise it is just annoying to be watching constant derailments and embarassing when clubs have put in so much effort to get to a show.
And on a show layout, you can't just expect to be allowed to run what you want, of course it needs to be ''correct'' for the time period etc.

But I think it's important that when just running at the club people with the cheap trains get a chance to run, and if they don't run well then someone can explain to them what is wrong with their trains. I often get a chance to run some of my cheap bachmann stuff at my club, although I only put it on if I know it is a decent runner


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Actually, we pretty much run what we like, and it's not always time period correct. OTOH, the TCA guys came by the layout for the last show and were very impressed with what we had. They previously had told us there was no room at the TCA convention for another display, after seeing ours, they changed their mind.


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## briangcc (Oct 11, 2012)

Time period correct? 

I guess that is dependent on the particular club. The one I belonged to I'd have my Conrrail SD60M pulling a Autorack train parked right next to my Dad's NYC F-7 set that was pulling 40' boxcars which could be right next to the latest CSX pulling a stack train. Heck, sometimes those same SD60M's would be pulling my WWII vintage army train...with a Conrail caboose in tow! The important thing was that the cars were tested and ran


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## trains galore (Jul 22, 2013)

Yeah at my train club you can run what you want but on a show given it's an LMS line the club obviously wants to run it as one.
We have an american layout anyway


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## FRED On Board (Jan 2, 2014)

Re: Dissapointments

First: Public shows and events

What I'm about to compose is largely conjecture and supported with little fact as it relates to the experiences of others...It is supported only by circumstances as I remember them for a considerable number of years both as a trade show exhibitor and as an attendee...To be short and to the point: A measure of what has been perceived as rudeness by some (who have posted within this thread) is perhaps the outward appearance and result of failed logistics.

Anyone who has been to more than one public show as an exhibitor soon learns that set-up and final touches to a display, especially one that has operating aspects to what is featured, is a complexity of tasks all of which demand concentration and tenacity to get things as they should be for a successful demonstration and presentation...If you are THE ONLY ONE representing your club at a show and are charged with the task of getting your display up-and-running, addressing last minute issues (Murphy is always lurking over the shoulder of public or trade show exhibitors), then your club has a failed logistics plan...You need at least two members to be in the space at all times, so that one can be the momentary "face" of your club to interact with whoever is there and shows an interest in your display...That club member must be wholly responsive in a positive way to anyone who is just looking, commenting or asking questions...That club member should be one who is fairly knowledgeable about the club, the display and model railroading in general and be willing to evaluate the experience, the level of knowledge and the motivation for whatever questions comes his or her way...If this two person team as I have simply characterized is put in place and on location during all show hours, a lot of what I have read within this thread disappears

Second: Club activities related to members and open-house events

If your club has had long running practices regarding who and what can run trains on layouts, that's fine for all the technical reasons stated...Now, how to handle guests, new members and anyone else who has interest to run their trains on club layouts? ...Publish and post a simple requirements list...Keep it short to 6 or less requirements and make it available as a handout and seen as a posterboard size notice somewhere clearly visible to everyone in the proximity of the layout...A one or two sentence explanation as conclusion to the requirements should be made in a friendly manner and each of the requirements so stated above the conclusion should meet the test of enhancing the fun of model railroading, not limiting the fun of model railroading.

In conclusion:

None of the above is rocket science and none of the above is beyond everyday politeness...What is accomplished is to greatly reduce the chance of disappointments, irritations, frustrations, negative impressions and possibly hard feelings of all present.

FWIW

Bruce /Fred On Board
ATSF, BN, SP, UP


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## Zeus-cat (Feb 5, 2011)

Being in the Dayton area I found this thread interesting. As a casual model railroader I think it is safe to say that I won't be going to the Hara shows or checking out a local club anytime soon. I've got way too many hobbies and not enough time, so railroading will be something I only do at home for now. Maybe after I retire things will change.


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