# Air Chime Whistle



## T-Man

Well I have a 7B transformer hooked up to the air chime whistle controller per the directions. As you can see the underside connections. 10 o clock is yellow green is 2 o clock (the other small post), red is 4 o clock and black is 8 o clock. Red and black have large post. In the instructions the green is fed to one rail. red is center terminal and yellow is the 15 volt accessory power and the black is connected to the common along with the other rail connection. 

My problem is that the engine doesn't run. I can feel action from the controller when the button is pressed but no movement of the engine. I do get power to the controller too.

Any ideas? I have no experience with these. That controller is old the transformer too but I know that it works without the controller.


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## gunrunnerjohn

What's the _*air chime whistle controller*_?


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## flyernut

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What's the _*air chime whistle controller*_?


A black box with a push button John.I don't believe the engine has to be running for it to work.


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## flyernut

As per AF instruction sheet:
black wire on control box to base post on transformer.
Red wire from control box to 7-15 volt terminal on transformer.
yellow wire from control box to 15 volt post on transformer.
connect separate black wire from base post on transformer to base post on track terminal.
green wire from control box to other clip on terminal.
On the track clip, base post is on the left.
NO OTHER WIRING SHOULD BE PRESENT. Maybe your generator is bad?? These can be rebuilt.It's the tube looking thing on the controller.


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## Magne-rail

Do not have any other clips connected to the track for power other then the one connect to the whistle control box.

Sal


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## T-Man

I have two engines to test it out. Basically, The controller generates a pulse that is picked up by a speaker on an engine. 

I have a simple loop with two leads, no other lines for the track or transformer. I cleaned the connections once. I will check the wires for continuity. They are old too.

Here the tech info link.


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## Magne-rail

T-Man did you get it working yet? 

Sal


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## Magne-rail

gunrunnerjohn said:


> What's the _*air chime whistle controller*_?


The Air Chime Whistle controller duty is to superimpose into the track an oscillating signal of around 1000 cycles, which in turn is picked up by the small speaker inside the tender or B unit emitting a whistle or horn sound . It was not good at all, but Flyer could not us the large whistle set like Lionel do to the small amount of space in the Flyer tender. Also there was a patent problem issue with Lionel when Flyer tried to put a small whistle in the 314W that was similar to what Lionel had. 

Sal


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I spoke with someone at a Show this past weekend. He said it is not hard at all to fix the generators -- the "tube"-like item that connects to the control box. However, I am unsure how that is done. I've never opened one to see what's inside. But this fellow said there are contacts that need simple adjusting by bending, and that's all there is to it. Anyone try to repair one yet??


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## Magne-rail

Nuttin But Flyer said:


> I spoke with someone at a Show this past weekend. He said it is not hard at all to fix the generators -- the "tube"-like item that connects to the control box. However, I am unsure how that is done. I've never opened one to see what's inside. But this fellow said there are contacts that need simple adjusting by bending, and that's all there is to it. Anyone try to repair one yet??


No, but it's a crap shoot on eBay if you buy one. Just hope it works. Buy from a seller that has a return policy. I've purchased a few on eBay over the years only had to return a couple. They are not that expensive. Buy one to replace the non-op piece then you can try fixing yours, if you screw it up no big deal!

Sal


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## flyernut

LBR Enterprises rebuilds them.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I think Doug Peck offers repaired ones and takes the old ones in exchange. But do not know if he fixes them himself or sends them to someone. Be seeing him at York maybe talk to him about it.

Tom Barker's book only mentions that the contacts inside the tube can be cleaned with very fine sandpaper (400 grit). His drawing of the tubes inner workings shows a vibrating reed switch. So I guess that could need some adjusting at some point.

Like Magne-rail says, they can be found cheap but not always in working condition. So it would not be expensive to buy a couple and play with them. Unfortunately, I am told the resulting horn sound is nothing at all like a real horn and all that work might be a disturbing let-down once you get it working.


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## T-Man

I am at the point of breaking it open The continuity checks out on the wires so the problem is inside, Get ready for some pics.


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## Magne-rail

T-Man said:


> I have two engines to test it out. Basically, The controller generates a pulse that is picked up by a speaker on an engine.
> 
> I have a simple loop with two leads, no other lines for the track or transformer. I cleaned the connections once. I will check the wires for continuity. They are old too.
> 
> Here the tech info link.



These two leads your talking about, one is going straight from the base post on the transformer to the base post terminal clip on the track. And the other is coming from the control box (grn wire) to the other clip on the No.690 terminal, correct? These are the only wires that should be connected to the track. Next check your locomotive and make sure it's working. I'm sure you have done that already.
The reason I'm asking this is that the Locomotive should run with the Whistle controller connected to the track, no reason for it not too. The only other thing I can think of is a short inside the control box or a wire is loose. The four prong generator has nothing to do with the operation of the locomotive, it just sends the signal through the track which operates the speaker inside the tender. By the way, which two locomotive' s are you using? 

Sal


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## T-Man

*A MTF First A look inside.*

My connections are correct.

Sal I don't know the numbers of the engines. One is a 360 SF diesel, the other is a pair of green diesels. I am changing the speaker to the 45 but have not mounted it yet to the cardboard tube. I will get back to you about the pair.

Here are the pictures. I cut the side with a dremel wheel. Epoxy willl be needed to place it back.





I colored the wires. to remove the plug and insulator.

















That is what I have for now. Next I will determine the wiring diagram and figure out why the red had no power.

The beast has been released!!


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Not much in there........


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## gunrunnerjohn

Looks like the old vibrating gizmo from 1950's car radios!


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## Magne-rail

The 360/361 use the Electronic Whistle control not the Air chime whistle. There may be a difference in the receivers and frequency..

Sal


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## T-Man

I bought a replacement speaker from Portlines and I am under the impression both generators should work. The speakers are only receivers. The whistle generator came with the 360 set. The previous owner had it as a child. I will prove it one way or another. I can see a need for horn generator. A steam whistle for a diesel? That would turn heads.

Next, I examined the relay. The black wire goes to a coil (common)( track), The yellow wire is connected to a frame ( 15 volts). The red wire goes to a center vibrating plate (variable speed). Green connects to two opposing contacts with the vibrating plate in the center ( other rail track).

I had 4 m ohms across each contact, so that is why the engine did not run. I need a good contact between green and red, for the engine to run. I cleaned the contacts and got under 30 ohms. I am ready to test. So far so good.

The engine is my 310 without any speakers. I am using this just to see if it will run with the generator connected..


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Whoa, what you are saying is already way over my head, but I'm loving it. Can't wait for the results as I have several air chime and other whistle types in my stable. Love to get all of them working, even if they sound like crap.


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## Magne-rail

T-Man said:


> I bought a replacement speaker from Portlines and I am under the impression both generators should work. The speakers are only receivers. The whistle generator came with the 360 set. The previous owner had it as a child. I will prove it one way or another. I can see a need for horn generator. A steam whistle for a diesel? That would turn heads.
> 
> Next, I examined the relay. The black wire goes to a coil (common)( track), The yellow wire is connected to a frame ( 15 volts). The red wire goes to a center vibrating plate (variable speed). Green connects to two opposing contacts with the vibrating plate in the center ( other rail track).
> 
> I had 4 m ohms across each contact, so that is why the engine did not run. I need a good contact between green and red, for the engine to run. I cleaned the contacts and got under 30 ohms. I am ready to test. So far so good.
> 
> The engine is my 310 without any speakers. I am using this just to see if it will run with the generator connected..




For the early 360/361 AB units they had to use what was called the Whistle control box which plug into a wall socket. Very rare to find one! This was used for the Electric whistle units only. I don't think the Air chime whistle will work with the early diesel's. The later diesel's with the diesel horn you could use both the air chime and the diesel horn controller to make it (horn) work. I will post a photo of the hook up for the Electronic Whistle. These control boxes were un- catalogue. Good luck finding one that works.

Sal


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## T-Man

I am catching on to the electronic whistle controller. My new kit replaces everything old in the 360/361. I have yet to install it. I doubt I need an electronic one. The old unit had a speaker resistor and capacitor.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I have a couple of those old electronic whistle control units. My 360/361 uses it, however at the moment it does not function. I think my 334DC also uses one. You mentioned a new kit for the innerds of the 361 -- where did you get it and what is included? Instructions too?


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## Magne-rail

Well, if you gut the old unit and replace it with a Diesel horn whistle or what ever you decide, that would work also. I'm coming from someone wanting to keep it original, those Electronic Whistle are hard to find in working order. Good luck with your project. 

Sal


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## T-Man

*Moving on.*

Thanks for the input because I know more now. The electronic unit sounds interesting I will have to keep my radar on for that one.

Here is my speaker kit. A capacitor and a speaker, some directions were included.



This is from the 360,361. A speaker housing with two resistors, and a capacitor.



Now to add more information my second engine is a 378. It has the vibrator on board!



My question. Is the on board vibrator, for a horn or an engine sound?


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## Magne-rail

Diesel roar and Electronic whistle. The Diesel roar was one of Flyers best feature in a Diesel. It would get louder as the RPM's picked up. And lower as the RPM came down.

Sal


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I believe Sal is right. I have the 377/378 combo too. It once had diesel roar and an air-chime whistle. I do not remember how they sounded back in those early days of my youth, but I have seen old videos of the Flyer engineers working with the diesel roar. It sounds pretty good. Another project I have waiting.......


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## flyernut

There's a nice electronic whistle controller on my hometown Craigslist. In the box, excellent condition, $45 or BO


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## T-Man

See, they can be found, but I am not desperate for one.

I do find it interesting that the whistle controller and the diesel sound mechanism appear to be the same.

The 361 may have to wait. I may need the speaker for the 378.

Time to test some more.


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## Magne-rail

T-Man said:


> See, they can be found, but I am not desperate for one.
> 
> I do find it interesting that the whistle controller and the diesel sound mechanism appear to be the same.
> 
> The 361 may have to wait. I may need the speaker for the 378.
> 
> Time to test some more.


I would have Flyernut pick that whistle controller up for you. The seller won't answer emails. It may have a good chance of working since it's boxed up. Good deal for the $45.00.. They don't come around to often. If I had use for it, I would buy it in a heart beat if the seller was out in California..

Sal


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## Nuttin But Flyer

I saw one of those electronic whistle controls on eBay just recently -- do a search it may still be there -- not sure current price. I have been able to grab 2 for around $20 a piece, but have no idea if they work -- got them for parts for my own. Tom Barker's book mentions the old e-units and something about the speakers inside the tenders and "B" units. Check to see what he has to say, it may be helpful.


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## Magne-rail

T-man, how is the whistle & relay project working out? Any new updates? Wow, I got a promotion to Gang Laborer or Labourer? I kinda enjoyed being a Hobo! So, I get paid now, correct? LOL


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## T-Man

This is sort of a dual post. I got the 378 working and it is an onboard diesel sound.


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## flyernut

T-Man said:


> This is sort of a dual post. I got the 378 working and it is an onboard diesel sound.


Sounds like a p+++ed off bee, lol.. Almost as bad as Lionel's "Sounds of Steam".


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## Nuttin But Flyer

What did you have to do to get that working?


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## T-Man

The most important part is the frame of the vibrator is positive so the nut on the bottom is isolated by washers. It wasn't at first. After that I cleaned the contacts with a construction paper and squeezing the contacts together. that was it. It is not very loud but the speaker does work. I had to twang the spring under power. Then it just ran after that with the throttle. It probably hasn't run in years.


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## Nuttin But Flyer

Did you replace any of the original electrical components -- resistors, capacitors, etc.? Just curious if it is possible to find new items to replace the old ones and eventually get mine to work.


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## T-Man

No nothing was changed.

Make sure the coil works. The top set of contacts must touch. The bottom set are open.

Frame is isolated from the coil frame/bracket.


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## Aflyer

T-man,
Did I miss an update on opening up that air chime whistle tube. Great photos of the disection, were you able to make it work?

I plan to wire one of those control units into my bus wires on the new layout. I wonder what the difference is between the tubes marked Air Chine Whistle, and the ones marked diesel horn?
Thanks,
Aflyer


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