# Beginners guide to buying a Brass engine.



## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

I have been approached on several forums about what to look for, what to avoid and what to pay when it comes to buying ones first brass engine, be it steam or diesel. I am hoping this will become a sticky so any beginners will be prepared or open to owning thier first brass engine and getting it to run well. 

First up we will tackle steam engines. The better brands that I have personaly owned or worked on are as follows: PFM/United, Tenshodo, Akane, Westside, Hallmark and Gem/Olympia. All brands have dud's, so when in doubt post up the exact model and importer/brand for more detailed info. 

Boxes are as much a part of the model's value as they are to Lionel trains. A missing box takes the model out of the collector realm and into the operator one. When talking to a dealer at a show or via email, as him to tell you if he has run the model, does it run well, any motor/gear box noise. A little bit is normal on early models. Most PFM/United articulated locomotives use a duel fiber gear reduction between the motor and the first gear box, so they tend to have the gear noise of a coffee grinder but are bullet proof otherwise and normaly very smooth running. Ask if the model has been serviced, ie cleaned of old dried lubricant and relubricated for use on your layout if you intend to run the model. If not, is he/she able/willing to do this for you? If not you will have to do this yourself before you run the model. 

Dont panic!!! A brass model, espicaly steam, are much easier to take appart then anything on the market in the plastic world, only thing close is an old Mantua diecast engine. 
There are normaly 3 small screws, 2 at the rear below the cab, either facing reward toward the tender, or facing straight down below the cab floor. You will normaly have to remove the pilot truck if the model has one, that is normaly 1 screw. Then you can remove the single long screw that holds the front of the boiler to the cylinders/frame. If there is no working headlight, the whole boiler/cab assembly should lift clear of the motor/frame.

At this point you can easily get to the motor, usualy a large open frame motor, a rubber tube that connects it to the gear box and all the axle bearing points that need to be lubricated. You will want to put a couple of drops of lightweight oil, such as labelle at each end of the motor shaft, staying away from the open communtator where the motor brushes ride. If that copper surface is all clean, you can polish it with a "pinkie" eraser or a pencil eraser. A drop of oil at each end of the gear box shaft, and one on each bearing surface, axles and side rods. If the gear box is enclosed under the engine, there will be 2 small screws to remove the cover to check for hardened grease. I use cylinder oil for live steam engines to lubricate the main gear. 

This is about all I recommend for the brass newbie unless he/she has done much more on other models. Remotoring with a can motor, lighting the headlight and painting the model are the next steps if desired. Each has its own steps of what to do and not to do. Do not attempt any of this repair work if your in doubt of your ablities. There are plenty of "seasoned" brass operators that would do this work for you, myself being one of them.

You do NOT need to always remotor to add DCC. If the magnet in the old motor is strong, and it runs smooth and quiet without lots of heating up or high amperage draw it can be converted. All that must be done is isolating both motor brushes from the motor frame. one will already be this way, the other is usualy easily isolated. 

Brass diesels are very hit and miss in the early years. I wont go into Overland models or OMI for short. They are normaly out of the budget for the beginning modeler with new models just shy of $1000 for a single diesel and most all average around $300-$600 for a painted model. I stick to the older Alco Models, Hallmark, Red Ball and similar. Most all have a drive system by Kumata or KMT for short. They use open straight cut gears, both brass and plastic, in the gear tower and have the noise of a coffee grinder. Some can run almost as quiet as an Athearn, others not so much. A lot of the noise is amplified by the use of hollow plastic drive shafts and a noisy open frame motor. I normaly repower them using the A line brand repower kit for Athearn diesels, along with Athearn drive shaft assemblies. A line offers a metal weight/motor cradle that I double stick to the brass frame, then I ACC glue the motor to the cradle and hook up the shafts. I also upgrade thier 4 wheel electrical pickup to 8 wheel using Grand Line PN 7005 power pickup assembly. It mounts with a single 2-56 screw into a hole you drill/tap in the gear box casting. This one step goes along ways to making these cheaper diesels run well, even with the old motor. The truck gear boxes will need taken appart, cleaned of old hard grease and relubricated.

There is lots of room inside the shell on a brass diesel for weight. I normaly add sheets of lead or similar to the roof above the motor, this helps with traction and helds deaden down the hollow shell reverb of the driveline noise. 

All of my diesels will crawl as good as a Kato, might not be as quiet, but just as smooth, many even still have thier open frame motors till I can afford to can motor them.

I highly recommend each modeler own atleast one brass model. The older Japanese imports are an absolute bargain right now. I paid $60 for an unpainted Hallmark/KMT Fairbanks Morse H12-44 switcher in its original box with factory lights. Its one of the best running ones I have gotten and cost less than most of the Walthers ones I see at shows. It doesnt have fragile plastic handrails or foot boards. My Hallmark GP18, pro painted for the Susquehanna in thier striking yellow jacket scheme cost me $174 shipped to me. The paint job is part of the cost if your unable to paint your own. I do some painting but leave the hard paint schemes to someone else.

I recommend the following dealers for the beginner to purchase from, Howie's Brass/Howard Holland out of Tyrone, PA, Chucks Brass out of Kokomo, IN, The Caboose in Wolcott, CT and Caboose Hobbies out of Denver, CO. I do not recommend buying off ebay for your first purchase unless you have someone familar with brass assisting you. I have no connection with any of these dealers, but have purchased from them with excellent results and help when needed. All have excellent websites with online shopping. 

If you need brass repair, or wish to have your model gone thru and made ready for use. I provide this service as well as others. Anything from regearing, adding lights, DCC, Can motor installs ect.

Many modelers do not understand brass or why own brass. Chances are they have never owned yet held a brass model in their hands. Everybody I have spoken to are smitten by brass models once they jump in and buy thier first model. Many of them put them in display cases on the mantle or china cabinet when the model isnt in use on the layout. 

Feel free to drop me an email or PM if you have more technical questions or need further assistance. Here are a couple of my engines to entice you. Cheers Mike










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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A great writeup, but I have a suggestion. Break it up into reasonable sized paragraphs, makes it much easier to read.


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

I did, but when it posted the inspace went away. Not sure why. I broke it all up into shorter paragraphs when I typed it. I broke it up with spaces, the 5 space tab in at the beginning of each paragraph goes away when it posts, dont know how to fix that part. Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks a lot better, don't know what happened to your first post.


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

Not sure either, I didnt go back and check it right after I first posted it. Was working on that GP18. Not quite happy with the gear mesh between the axle gears at the worm gears in the trucks. Getting better now. That is some of the noise in these KMT drives. Many times the axles ride to high in the gear box, and the worm bottoms out or the teeth on the axle gears bottom out in the worm. Takes some filing down of the gear teeth, carefully as you dont wanna take off to much. Tuning these models is very much trial and error as each one was hand assembled and a bit different from the next one in line, let alone a different model all together. KMT did diesels for several different importers, Alco Models and Hallmark are two of the more well known ones. These diesels, once painted and a few road specific details added hold thier own against some of the models on the market today, but without those bloody fragile plastic handrails. They will never be as quiet as the new stuff, unless you stuff a modern drive under the brass shell. But to me that ruins the model. Unless the drive is totaly worn out, which is rare, I just tune them up and enjoy. There isnt a plastic locomotive on my layout, all brass, and I paid less than $100 for every one but that GP18.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

MToney,

What do you think about HCB by AHM Brass? I have an ATSF 4-6-2 Pacific that needs the tender's couplers lift bar replaced. One end snapped off when it caught on the foam. I did get it for $90, in it's original box. No paperwork though.

Thanks!


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

Reviving my own post, cause I can hehehe. That was a good deal RRGrassi, the old AHM brass were decent runners. A member of the local club has 2 of the PRR 2-10-4 J1 engines that are painted and weathered beautifully, on the layout running they would pass for newer Overland or Division Point models. In my own collecting, I have focused on early run PFM models, most were packed with no foam, but a cardboard wrapper with some kind of soft paper type material inside of the wrapper. I have an 2 truck Climax with spoked wheels and I am looking at one of the common ATSF 2-8-0's that is pro painted. As always, if you need help with a brass model or advice on buying or not, feel free to message me. Mikie


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## dablaze (Apr 17, 2012)

I can't remember the brand, prob Van or Tenshodo, but I picked up a brass S2, good shape, original box a few years back for $4 at a train show, asked the guy why and he said he does not like brass. To each his own I guess, but I figure he must not like money either at that price.

Craig


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Chacun à son goût as deblaze says.


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