# Lionel Track Info Needed



## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Been a while since I have been signed on, I am thinking to make a table but I am sorta confused about track curves.

I have a lot of Lionel 3 rail track but it is the sharpest curve tracks, it takes 8 pieces to make a circle. What is the next size up in curves and what Diameter table will I need to have in width.
I am fairly sure the next size track with require 12 pieces to make a circle.

I plan to make the table with folding legs starting with a sheet of Plywood, but the 4 ft width is a tad too wide for the area I have


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

then it sounds like O-36 might be right for you............Mike


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Big Mike said:


> then it sounds like O-36 might be right for you............Mike


What does 0-36 mean? is that the diameter of a track circle is 36 inch's??

I was looking around on EBAY and saw tracks advertised as 027 and 031 and each said 8 pieces make a circle, what are all the sizes of track curves that are available?


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

are u working with 027 or the taller 031? both are 8 pc to circle.

27" or 31" center rail to center rail.

u can always add a straight to ease the hard radius.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

O-36 means that if you make a complete circle it would measure 36" across. Going by the number of pieces to make a circle can be misleading. In your case with a 4x8 sheet of plywood O-42 would be the widest track you can use to fit a 48" wide table.

For more information check this page from Lionel...

http://www.lionel.com/ForTheHobbyist/AboutGauge/


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## cole226 (Feb 8, 2013)

lionel tubular track:

shorter 0-27 profile; 
8pc make 27" circle, 12pc 0-42 make 42" circle, 16pc 0-54 make 54" circle

taller 0 profile;
8pc 0-31-31" circle, 12pc 0-42, 16pc 0-54, 16pc 0-72


hope this helps.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

cole226 said:


> lionel tubular track:
> 
> shorter 0-27 profile;
> 8pc make 27" circle, 12pc 0-42 make 42" circle, 16pc 0-54 make 54" circle
> ...


What is the 0-36 that big Mike mentioned above????

it appears all my track is O gauge with the brown track ties

The reason I am asking it just seems that what I have makes for a very sudden and sharp turn when then train is running and I thought a wider turn radius would be more realistic keeping in mind I want to cut down the width of the table about 6 inch's or so, I was even thinking about having both O and HO on the same table, just do not know how it would look.

That form describing everything was great thank you..


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Remember, the measurement is made from center rail to center rail. So, the outside diameter of O36 is about 38 inches. O27 is the smallest, sharpest turn, and all four of our engines dump if the turns are taken at full speed, even though they are all O27 engines.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

mnp13 said:


> Remember, the measurement is made from center rail to center rail. So, the outside diameter of O36 is about 38 inches. O27 is the smallest, sharpest turn, and all four of our engines dump if the turns are taken at full speed, even though they are all O27 engines.


Actually that is not true. My O27 track measures 27" in diameter from outer rail to outer rail. I can only assume that is true with other diameters but don't have any to measure.

This is from Lionels 1954 'how to' booklet. Their measurements are from outside rails.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I think you can only get O 36 in fasttrack. Tube track doesn't have 0 36.
I think that is what Mike is referring to fastrack.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

You can measure the track to tell what you have. Going by the tie color is OK but some O/27 has black tie too, I also think there are some gray ties? Taking a measurement will tell you as the O is taller.
See,


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

rkenney said:


> Actually that is not true. My O27 track measures 27" in diameter from outer rail to outer rail. I can only assume that is true with other diameters but don't have any to measure.
> 
> This is from Lionels 1954 'how to' booklet. Their measurements are from outside rails.



Interesting. Different sources say the outside diameter or the center rail diameter. Mine is put away for the summer so I can't measure myself.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

mnp13 said:


> Interesting. Different sources say the outside diameter or the center rail diameter. Mine is put away for the summer so I can't measure myself.



You have a "Source" that says you should measure from inside rails? I don't know why that rumor persists. Anyone with a tape measure can disprove it.

Mark Twain said that a lie can travel around the world in the time it takes the truth to put its pants on!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Rkenney, she said outside rails or center rails not inside. Its funny as I just took the tape to mine. The O42 looked to be 43 inches from outside to outside rail. Roughly 042 center to center. The 03 lookes to be 31 inches from outside rails and roughly 30 center to center. I probably bent them to fit my layout which would explain the discrepancy. So as a rule , I would just say its a guide but that its not set in stone.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Just to show I wasn't making it up.... 

http://lionelllc.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/a-beginners-guide-to-curves/


> When measuring track, the radius and diameter correspond to the centerline of the track. In other words, the actual outside dimension will be slightly wider than the designation.


http://www.layoutvision.com/id62.html
--shows an image


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

mnp13 said:


> Just to show I wasn't making it up....


No one believes you were making it up. I've heard the same myself. 

But we're not twitter and limited to hash-tags and 140 characters.

The whole reason people in this country so readily believe all the mis truths, half truths, and lies in this country is they do not check their sources. They are only interested in opinions (their own) not facts (of which most have few and lack the ability to find out more) and the most comprehensive thought they can put together is a 'sound bite'. They think 'truth' is a democratic process; the greater the number of people that agree with a 'lie' the truer it becomes.

From the documentation so far provided it appears that the 'Fast Track' product is measured from the center rail.

Lionel's original tubular track is measured from the outside rail.

I can only surmise that this difference occurs for the convenience of engineers. Drawings marked CL (center line) are a common standard. On the other hand as a child (think customer) laying out track it is far more convenient to know how much room I need for a curve, hence the logic for Lionels original measurements (user friendly).


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Bob, it took some effort, but I fought down the urge to write an equally condescending post in reply to you. 

So I checked my source - I hauled out my packed away track and put together a circle. Then I got out a tape measure. Outside rail to outside rail, my O27 track, is 27.75 inches. Perhaps it is because my track is old and has been twisted, bent or mangled over the last 70 years or so. Who knows. However, no matter how I pushed, pulled or twisted, I could not get that measurement down to 27 all the way around.

sjm9911 had a similar result when he checked his track, and I'm rather confident that he has plenty of facts and also has the ability to find out more.

Was my earlier post inaccurate? It depends on the source of the information, and since one source of information happens to be _Lionel_, I feel a little "justified" in not fact checking further than the website of the company that made my track in the first place. I've been told many times to measure to the center rail when figuring out the space necessary for a layout, perhaps it's because the people who have given me that advice have had trains like mine - well loved, well used, somewhat the worse for the wear. What's in the book is not necessarily what is in the real world. 

I hope that's "comprehensive" enough for you.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

Too bad you take life so personally. It is not all about you!

If I had wanted to be 'condescending' I would have used your name. If you identify with the third paragraph that is your choice, no one has assigned you to it.

My thinking at the time actually had to do with the people who might be reading this and not the people who were writing it.

Curious to me how some can never be wrong or criticized, and when confronted with conflicting information their logic becomes a 'personality attack'.

My observations about people are just that, observations of behavior and have nothing to do with their personality.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Oh please. You are being rather transparent. You were being condescending and rude, and you got called on it. And not only by me. 

I've been wrong plenty of times, and I'm perfectly fine with being corrected. However, I don't take kindly to snide remarks and thinly veiled insults; I also don't sit back and take them quietly. 

And my name is in the very first line of your post.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Creative editing Michelle, he took your name out.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Creative editing Michelle, he took your name out.


Well, except that pesky "Originally Posted by mnp13" at the top of it. 

I know I haven't been on this forum all that long, and I haven't been around much recently, but anyone who knows me already knows that I take corrections pretty well. Usually with a "oh really? oops!" response. I'm also happy to share my screwups, so that maybe others can avoid the same mistakes. I don't, and never have, taken put downs or insults well; no matter how thickly (or in this case, thinly) veiled... and as I get older and crankier, I'm much more likely to respond instead of ignoring it.


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Ok everyone, lets get back on topic, it not about you or who, this thread is about ME and my issue.
I just made a track circle and I measured it from center rail to center rail, it is 25 inch give or take an 1/8th. By my reckoning I have the tightest circle they made. and since the opinions expressed here says they do not make an 036 in 0 gauge tube rails what is the next size below 036 in my type of rail? I am SO confused, please de-un-confuse me.

I want to make a layout with a sheet of plywood and I want to cut 6 inch's off the long side so I Can reach across the board better. I will be against a wall, and I was thinking to have both O and HO on the same board. Does that make any sense?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Back on track. Bkubiak, you probably have 027 track. Its diffrent then o track because of the height differences.Big ed posted on this earlier in this thread. I like the o track better because of the switches ( I think there more reliable, and the track in my opinion is stronger. You can fit o42 track on a peice of plywood. This is available in o and 027 tubular track. O guage tracks smallest curve is 31 inches and will work too. You can also 1/2 peices of stright track in between the curves to make the biggest circle possible for your layout. Are you planning on switches? The automatic o switches have an automatic antiderailing feature , wich is nice. Not all the 027 switches have this, its something to consider.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Bkubiak said:


> Ok everyone, lets get back on topic, it not about you or who, this thread is about ME and my issue.


 lol

Ok fine.  

Yup, you likely have O27 track. It's lighter weight, lower and somewhat flimsier than O. The easiest way to tell without a ruler is to look at the ties. You can see through the O ties from side to side, the O27 ties are closed at the ends. (in all of the track that I have seen, perhaps there is some out there that doesn't follow this rule.)

It's definitely lower quality than O, but it's more affordable too, especially the switches. Some O27 switches are non-derailing, some aren't, but you can adapt them. I also rewired mine to have direct transformer power so they work a lot better now.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Found the thread:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5835

The first photo shows the track side by side, see the difference in the ties?


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

mnp13 said:


> Found the thread:
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5835
> 
> The first photo shows the track side by side, see the difference in the ties?


I have looked at the pictures and read the specs and sure enough my track measures 7/16 inch high which indicates I have 027 track. now I want to make my table between 40 and 42 inch wide so I can reach across it.
looking on ebay at track deals I only saw two sizes of 027 track, the same as I have now and others that are advertised as 027 042 is there track available between these two sizes?


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Check this thread:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/archive/index.php/t-11428.html



> *gunrunnerjohn*
> 03-19-2012, 05:53 PM
> K-Line made the 72" track and Marx made the 34" track. Lionel made the 27", 42", and 54" sizes.


And if you REALLY want to get fancy, you can get a rail bender and make any curve you want!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd make the table just a bit wider and use the 42" O27 profile curves.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I just measured a circle of O-31 track. To the outside of the outside rail it is 29.92 inches in diameter. To the outside of the ties, it is 30.67 inches. 

A circle of O-72 measures 72.28 to the outside of the center rail.

I don't have any O-27 to measure. I gave it all away.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Can I have that to the thousandths please? ;-)


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

servoguy said:


> I just measured a circle of O-31 track. To the outside of the outside rail it is 29.92 inches in diameter. To the outside of the ties, it is 30.67 inches.
> 
> A circle of O-72 measures 72.28 to the outside of the center rail.
> 
> I don't have any O-27 to measure. I gave it all away.


OK Then, who has a circle of 027 Track in diameter (radius) of 031 or 042 that they want to give away for a song.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The way I measured the diameter was to measure the length of the outside (or center) rail, multiply by 8 and divide by pi. This is easier and quicker than putting a circle together and trying to get the circle round.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

servoguy said:


> The way I measured the diameter was to measure the length of the outside (or center) rail, multiply by 8 and divide by pi. This is easier and quicker than putting a circle together and trying to get the circle round.


"easier and quicker"

LOL

You're so funny. 

(though, ok, now that I have a formula, you're right.)


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

Formula, What????? Who has some track that I need and are willing to part with a circle of it


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Most O track diameters are measured to the outside of the ties.

O36 is only available in FasTrack.
O38 Was only for Super O.

Standard O sizes are 31, 42, 54, 72.
O27 sizes are 27 and 42.
FasTrack comes in 31, 36, 48, 60, 72, and 96.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

Take a breath man...  this is what happens on forums, threads evolve and go off topic. It's not personal, it's just what happens sometimes. 

If someone has some that they want to give to you, they will offer it. But getting mad because of thread drift isn't likely to get you any offers.

I don't have any to offer. I'd suggest you look into a track bender, or ebay.

Here are a few listings:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-6-12...959470?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4d1da6e82e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-O27-...037841?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item43c94c6cd1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-6-65...834472?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5aff924c28


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

BigAl56 said:


> Most O track diameters are measured to the outside of the ties.
> 
> O36 is only available in FasTrack.
> O38 Was only for Super O.
> ...


Hey Al, doesn't O27 come in 54 as well?


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Don't forget there's also O16 track... 










Greg


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

*edited - never mind, image is fixed.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

This has come up before. We had some posters put together loops of O tube track and O31 and 27 measured from outer tie to outer tie. 
The Lionel article you posted is referencing FasTrack and that indeed may be measured on the center rail. I just pulled out a tape and measured both FasTrack and tube track and it appears tube is measured to the outer tie and FasTrack to the center rail.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Oh and BTW in the new Lionel Track catalog tube track is described as, "Limited items. Get yours today"

And Michelle you are correct. O27 also comes in 54" When measured tie to tie.


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## mnp13 (Aug 22, 2013)

BigAl56 said:


> This has come up before. We had some posters put together loops of O tube track and O31 and 27 measured from outer tie to outer tie.
> The Lionel article you posted is referencing FasTrack and that indeed may be measured on the center rail. I just pulled out a tape and measured both FasTrack and tube track and it appears tube is measured to the outer tie and FasTrack to the center rail.


Except what ServoGuy posted, that indicates that measurements for each size can be off by quite a bit. 

I think the moral of the story here is: if you're working with tube track, allow for an inch or two of play in either direction because it's likely not going to be perfect.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

mnp13 said:


> I think the moral of the story here is: if you're working with tube track, allow for an inch or two of play in either direction because it's likely not going to be perfect.


Not to mention with careful "tweaking" you can get a slightly tighter or wider circle due to the way pins fit into the adjoining piece. Tubular track is more forgiving than Fastrack, from what I see anyway.

Here's a couple E-bay finds to check out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-027-Track-Assortment-with-Crossover-13-Straight-15-Curve-plus-extras-/321416814783?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4ad5ef60bf
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-TRACK-20-CURVED-PIECES-/251542537401?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a911a84b9
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-027-TRACK-SWITCHES-VERY-NICE-/111368987379?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item19ee1be2f3
Carl


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

mnp13 said:


> Hey Al, doesn't O27 come in 54 as well?



Yes it does O/27 come in 54's too.


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## rkenney (Aug 10, 2013)

If you do the math and read the diagram this page shows the correct information to get 27" for o27 track.

Note on the O27 diagram that they indicate the center rail is 9.500" - well 8 times 9.5 divided by 3.14 = 24.203" so that's not right.

Measure the outside rail of a piece of O27 curved track and you get 10.500" - which works out to 26.751 - close but no cookie.

Look again at the dieagram and notice where the diameter measurement lines actually go. They go to the outside of the ties!

Measure a track section at the outside ties and you get 10 5/8 (10.625) - The math this time works out to 27.070 - I guess that's why the call it O27 

Works for the other track shown as well. They are telling you exactly how much board you need under these curves, including the ties! Knock yourself out, do the math.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Big al, thanks for the explanation. servoguy thanks for the formula . bkubiak I don't have any larger 027 track. Ill keep an eye out though. Do you have or plan on switches?


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## Bkubiak (Oct 20, 2013)

sjm9911 said:


> Big al, thanks for the explanation. servoguy thanks for the formula . bkubiak I don't have any larger 027 track. Ill keep an eye out though. Do you have or plan on switches?


I have 4 switch's, 2 manual and two remote, one of the remotes has a broken slide arm inside, it's the little tab on the part that actually slides in and out to move the track and also missing is the little sign that changes from red to green, it clicks but the track does not move. I can change the track by pushing it with my finger, the part number is 5121 and right under the part number is stamped 027. Who knew?


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