# Does all postwar lionel run on 027 track?



## BrianandSons (Aug 26, 2015)

I've been doing some reading on the Lionel postwar trains, tracks, accessories etc, on postwarlionel.com. I see they made three types of track, 027, 0, and super 0. In reading the descriptions of each locomotive they don't indicate which trains run on which track. I understand that a train that can run on 027 can also run on 0. But did they make trains that only run on 0 or super 0? I feel like there is some basic key information I'm missing on the whole understanding of this era.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

O gauge trains run on a minimum 31" radius curve. 027 is a minimum 27" curve. Super O is a minimum 36". There are lots of larger radius track is available and some O gauge requires larger curves (for example the new Big Boy requires a minimum 072).

Super O was produced first in 1957 and was Lionel's effort to produce more realistic track. I remember when it first came out and it was billed as the greatest thing since electricity. HO was gaining at the time and soon surpassed 027 and O gauge.

Look a specific engine/rolling stock item up on the Internet and you should find Lionel's information that should include the gauge.

At the top of this section of the O gauge section here, there is a good description of what is available today that includes pictures of the various manufacturer's offerings. The size difference is easy to see.

There are plenty of good explanations on the Internet.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Basically yes. And it will run on many other types of three-rail O-gauge track, too. However, you just don't know until you try if you might have problems. I have a lot of three rail and it runs on old pre-war Marx and Lionel track, postwar O027, Fastrack, and m present Atlas. 

The inverse is not true: a lot of modern stuff will not run on O-27.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

What Bill said was good info. O27 stuff will definitely run on all tracks, o stuff maybe not. It depends on the curves and switches. 027 track comes in different radius curves, so you can run some of the 0 stuff, as long as it can clear your switches. All three tracks are a bit different. O27 is not as high as 0 track and super o has different connections. So, best bet, is to ask here. Some 027 stuff is identical to 0 stuff, some isn't. So, if I confused you more, welcome to the wonderfull world of Lionel track. Oh, switches come in different radius too, I forget the max for 027.
Most steamers with a four digit number are 027, that dosent apply to Alcos, etc.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

*Scale vs. gauge--"0" vs. 027*

From the title Scale & gauge are two distinct terms, but often interchanged by a lot of model railroaders. Scale in use for Postwar is 1/48th scale. Example is it would take 48 boxcars placed end to end to equal a full size boxcar. That explains SCALE.

Gauge is based on the width of the outer top rails of the track you have. Lionel Postwar track is 1-1/4" measured from the inside edge to inside edge of the two outer rails.

Lionel 027 track measures 7/16" high (bottom of cross ties to top of rail); 0 track measures 11/16" high (bottom of ties to top of rail). The rail pins are also different: 027 track pins measure 3/32 or 2.30mm vs. "0" pins measure 7/64 or 2.77mm. So trying to mix the two isn't a good idea, without using adapters to join them.

027 track indicates that a complete circle would measure 27" in diameter
"0" track would make a circle of 31" in diameter.
Super "0" is just what it says ..."0" gauge, but it has the advantage of looking more realistic with a copper blade as the center rail pick up, and multiple cross ties, and a realistic looking profile.

The switches come in different radius' going as high as 72" radius, which is preferred to run long locos. 

The numbering system on STEAM LOCOS from Postwar use three and four digit numbers on the cabs. The common three digit numbers indicate the loco needs "0" gauge track for best performance. The four digit numbered loco will run on 027 track. ANY 027 loco will run fine on any of the above track without issue. Some locos whether 027 or 0 will run on 027, but may have problems negotiating the curves (radius) or certain switches. One anomaly with the three & four digit locos is the 671/681/682 steam engines and the 2020 steam loco. The physical locos with the frame/wheels of these S2 turbines are identical. The 6?? Are listed as "0" gauge, the 2020 is listed as 027, in catalogs. 

Lionel "Alcos" are catalogued as 027, the F3 diesels are catalogued as "0". 

Hopefully this explains the mystery on "0" & 027 track.


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## Agent027 (Sep 7, 2015)

When most folks say "027," they are thinking 27 inch diameter, even though it is true that 027 profile track does come in different diameters.

The main "problem" with some types of trains on 027 curves is clearing the switch box housing of the modern 027 type switches. Some locomotives are just simply too long to even negotiate an 027 curve. Others, while able to make the curve, will hit the switch box housing. If you were to use 027 track in a 42 inch diameter (which Lionel made), many of these longer and bigger locos and cars would be okay.

The confusion is even worse now as companies like Lionel are putting less emphasis on 027 track in lieu of FasTrack. When looking at recent Lionel catalogs, some locos which will easily negotiate the 027 curve and clear the switch box housing are listed as 031 minimum curve. This is less reality and more marketing driven information.

If you look at Lionel catalogs from the 1970's through 2004 (before FasTrack) when nearly all starter sets came with 027 track, you'll see many engines with the sets that are now classified as minimum 031 curve, like the traditional sheet metal framed Lionel GP 7/9/20/38, and the RS-3 for example.

The scale versions of these same locos can be a different situation because of the width of the locomotive frame and the more scale sized fuel tank beneath the loco frame (versus the simple plastic housing used on the traditional locos).

I use 027 track and curves and I tend to stay with smaller locomotives, which to me just look better on the tight curves, and on a smaller layout. The Lionel Industrial Switcher, the K-Line Alco FA, S-2, MP-15, RDC, the Ready Made Trains RDC, BEEP switcher and S-4, the K-Line starter set Pacific type steamer, the Lionel 2-4-2/4-4-2 steamers, the smaller Lionel 4-6-2 steamers, the Lionel NW-2 and the postwar style 44 ton Centercab switcher, and the Alco FA - and also the Williams versions of the same exact engines.

Lionel did make a prewar switch that does not have the large footprint and big switch box housing, that leaves a little more "real estate" on a small layout, the 1024, which can be found used, but usually need some serious cleaning and I find, some feeder wires soldered underneath...

http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=1024

MARX Trains at one time made 027 track with a 34 inch diameter, which no one else did.

And here's one of my favorite videos ever of a layout with 027 track and switches. Notice there are some scale proportioned cars clearing the switches. The first loco seen looks to be a Reading Railroad Williams GP38 and the second, a Western Maryland Lionel GP38, both clearing the Lionel 027 switches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ_w3YOEac

Brian, since it sounds to me like you have limited funds to spend on trains (growing family), I wouldn't worry too much about the drawbacks of 027 track. The 027 track and types of smaller, non-scale trains that look good running on 027 track ALSO tend to be MORE affordable!

PS: on my layout, I have a modified RMC Sound Station... it's a simple digital speaker set up with a controller that has a whole variety of sounds on it, all push button activated (A BIG HIT with KIDS). Lionel Railsounds it is NOT. But for the $25 I paid for it, a great value with gives me sounds on every locomotive I have.

*There ARE ways to have FUN in the hobby without breaking the bank... I know... I"m an expert at this!*


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## Pebo (Sep 27, 2015)

I seem to recall that the 746 N&W J was recommended not to run on O27.

Peter


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

As stated above, three digit locos are for "0" (665,671,736,746 etc.) and four digit locos are 027 (1110, 1615, 2034 etc.)


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Not all 4 digit locos are O-27. I have a 2025 (2-6-2) made in 1946 that is clearly labeled O Gauge on the plate on the bottom of the loco. I got it from the original owner back about 1955. It came with O-31 track. There are some "experts" that think this is an O-27 loco, and the later 2025s (2-6-4) were sold with O-27 track. My 2025 has coil couplers and so I know what year it was made. It runs on O-27 track. 

I have some 736 locos that will run on O-27 track but will not go through 1121 and 1122 switches. I think they would go through Marx metal switches, but I have never tried this.


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## teledoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Bruce, I agree with you with certain locos being 0 and others being 027, such as the 671/2020 as another listed for both. The norm to easily understand to new comers to the hobby is to take the three vs. four digit and apply that 0 is three digit 027 are four digit. The majority follow that description, WITH a FEW exceptions.


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## Tucgary (Sep 21, 2015)

Bill tells us that Super O appeared in 1957. When did O first appear? 

Thanks to all who have posted. It's very helpful. Tucgary


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

That's about right, I belive it was only made for about 10 years. It is a bit more money but the guys that used it loved it. I belive it grooved the rollers if you ran a train a lot. It's expensive, and sometimes stuff is harder to find.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Tucgary said:


> Bill tells us that Super O appeared in 1957. When did O first appear?
> 
> Thanks to all who have posted. It's very helpful. Tucgary


Märklin introduced O gauge track around 1900.


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