# 283 loco struggling to pull 660, 661, 662 & 663...



## mikesdaddy

So, is this normal? I bought a nice set of aluminum passenger cars (660, 661, 662, 663) to pull behind my 283 loco. It's working okay, but it seems that the poor 283 is sweating a bit to do the job.

I realize that the passenger cars weight a lot more than the plastic cars that were shipped with the 283 in it's original set. Am I just asking too much of the loco?

Perhaps I need to "invest" in a locomotive better suited to pull these heavy cars. Suggestions?

BTW, I am powering the set with the 19B I picked up earlier this year. The amp meter shows about 3 amps being pulled by the engine and lighted cars. All pickup wheels cleaned to a shine and track cleaned as well.

Thanks, Guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBbbwZIcT8E


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## mikesdaddy

I've since removed car 660 and it seems to be running much better. I think all four cars are just too much for a 283.


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## Big Ed

By your video it looks like it is running fairly well?

Maybe a little oil on the axles of the passenger cars would help?
I think the cars would look better going around on a different curve radius/diameter.
I guess S track comes in larger sizes right?

I will go and research that some.

Nice looking train, looks in great shape.
I like the engine chugging sound.:thumbsup:

WHERES ALL THOSE S MEN FOR HELP?


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## mikesdaddy

Spent some time tinkering and found that if I changed the order of the cars, the old 283 is able to pull the cars okay. Somehow the tender was wobbling enough to break contact with the track....but re-arranging the order of the passenger cars eliminated the problem. All is well!


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## Big Ed

mikesdaddy said:


> Spent some time tinkering and found that if I changed the order of the cars, the old 283 is able to pull the cars okay. Somehow the tender was wobbling enough to break contact with the track....but re-arranging the order of the passenger cars eliminated the problem. All is well!



Still no S men reply's?

It looked like it was running quite well in your pictures.

Maybe a little well placed weight would take care of the tender?

Nice looking train.:thumbsup:
Edit,
A second look at the video the track looks fine with them.
Now all you need is a Santa Claus on it.


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## Stillakid

*"S-Men?"*

big ed, since you responded AND, you have "S", it seemed under control

:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Timboy

Let's get real. Seems evident that what "Big Ed" and maybe "Gunnerjohn" are really trying to do is to bring this S Gauge Forum down - with their not-so-subtle cyber bullying. Why would either of them even care about all this S Gauge stuff. They don't. They are acting like shills for some Mother Ship out there in an O Gauge orbit somewhere. There. I said it. Come censure me.

-Timboy


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## Big Ed

Timboy said:


> Let's get real. Seems evident that what "Big Ed" and maybe "Gunnerjohn" are really trying to do is to bring this S Gauge Forum down - with their not-so-subtle cyber bullying. Why would either of them even care about all this S Gauge stuff. They don't. They are acting like shills for some Mother Ship out there in an O Gauge orbit somewhere. There. I said it. Come censure me.
> 
> -Timboy



It is obvious you have problems. 
Deep seated problems.
I feel sorry for you.

Who the did I bully?
I never ran S but tried to help the man a little. You are too busy blogging B/S about (LIONEL) O to help.

You going to fly over the CUCKOO nest again?

I said it before, I will say it again I..LIKE...ALL...SCALES.

Get a life!


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## Timboy

Yeah. Whatever...


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## Big Ed

Timboy said:


> Yeah. Whatever...


Why don't you help a fellow S man?

I never worked on them maybe you could instruct him on how to make the tender stop wobbling.

Maybe a washer under the retaining clip like O has?
I don't really know, but you should, but you are to busy putting everyone and anything that has to do with Lionel down, to stop and help someone.


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## Big Ed

Just what I thought, you would leave,...no help from you.:smokin:


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## Rich_Trains

Mikesdaddy--The SantaFe 360 I usually use for aluminum passenger cars does okay pulling three (660, 662, 663). Adding a second 660 did caused it to struggle to where I decided to stick with only three for now. My 293 is a little slower than the diesel with the three cars.

Looking at the video your 283 pulling four cars is doing much better than my 360 pulling four cars. 

It's been a while, but I recall the American Models Amtrack F40 had enough power for all four cars. I will dig out the F40 sometime this week and report back. I'll also look at the 293 again now that I saw your video.

Rich


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## Timboy

Little Ed,

Actually, I think your heckling of S Gaugers on this list is a good thing. It helps members of the Flyer Nation to focus on what is important. Please continue. I want you to.

Regards,
Timboy, The One Who Actually IS a Flyer Guy


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## tjcruiser

Timboy said:


> Let's get real. Seems evident that what "Big Ed" and maybe "Gunnerjohn" are really trying to do is to bring this S Gauge Forum down - with their not-so-subtle cyber bullying. Why would either of them even care about all this S Gauge stuff. They don't. They are acting like shills for some Mother Ship out there in an O Gauge orbit somewhere. There. I said it. Come censure me.
> 
> -Timboy


Tim,

I'm just back from a long-day outing with my sons (a train show!), and am here now catching up on the day's threads.

What has been a happy read (up to now) has just turned sour with my seeing your post above.

Let me say this as respectfully as possible: please be respectful and kind here on this forum. Yes, our O or S gangs can engage in some good-natured banter and fun. But somewhere in there is a line that shouldn't get crossed. You, sir, have crossed it in the past, and are venturing towards that edge again. As a Mod here for this section, I will ask you to please be respectful to our membership. Consider yourself warned ... by me.

TJ

EDIT --

After writing my comments above, I headed over to another thread, and found this post from Tim ...



Timboy said:


> Ed,
> 
> You are thinking? That is not exactly what neanderthals do best. Keep up the good work, unibrow.
> 
> Regards,
> Timboy, THE Cerebral Flyer Guy



Tim -- it's as simple as this ... one more out-of-line comment, and you will be banned.

TJ


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## Timboy

It's always the one who pushes back that draws the penalty flag. 

-Timboy


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## Stillakid

*And who threw the first stone?*

Once upon a time, in a land, far, far away, there was a boy that liked to "stir the pot." He didn't care what was in it, only that is over the fire, and he could add fuel and make it "Boil Over!" He appeared to enjoy how when the liquid overflowed and ran down the sides, it created lots of steam, and a "hissing" noise when it reached the flames. 

He always looked for places that he could set up his pot. Usually, he would do this away from home. He knew if he did it there, he'd get into trouble. He liked to go to places that he knew were habitated but others not of his own clan. That way, he knew if anything bad happened, he could always count on the support of his people. Smart boy!

Then one day, after causing the pot to overflow for the third time, he was confronted by person not of his clan. The person told him to take his overflowing, hissing pot and take it back to his own lands. Well, he didn't like that. So he added more fire to the pot, and got it really hot. It was making even more noise now.

So again he was told to just go away. Not that boy! He knew if he kept the fire going, his clan was sure to see the smoke and come to his rescue.

The moral of the story? A watched pot does boil over. Especially when that was the original intent!

Goodnight Gracie


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## Timboy

Lol. Well said, Kid. Lol

-Timboy


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## flyernut

In the video the 283 seems to pull the cars ok, but I did hear it "straining" a little bit. I had a similar problem with my 312AC. It likes 3 cars, but anything over that, it starts to call me names. Also, check the tender for the weight that should be inside it. It may be missing. 283's are nice engines, I have 3 of them.


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## Reckers

Mikesdaddy, since I'm belatedly getting onto the thread, let me add this. Those aluminum cars are substantially heavier than any of the ones you're used to. Not only are the cars aluminum, but they are longer and have the heavy trucks instead of the light ones. Finally, the illuminated cars have the extra drag of the copper pickup strip on the axle. Curves provide additional resistance, as well, so it's a perfect storm.

Let me suggest that fine-tuning the cars will help you to get the most out of them. Keep those journal boxes lubed (I prefer graphite over oil, which will gather grit over time.) Make sure your axles are set at the proper width and keep the load down to a passenger express instead of an assortment of cars.

Best wishes,


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## mikesdaddy

Thanks all.....I've found that three cars is the happy place for this particular setup. Works and looks good, all who've visited and seen the shiny cars have complimented on how beautiful they are. All is well.


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## Reckers

No all is not well!!!! WHERE ARE THE PICTURES?????


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## Stillakid

*Video not enough?*

Len, y'all Kentucky boys are tough! You want it all! Just don't ask him to send them to you!:laugh::laugh:


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## Reckers

Jim, please!!! That was the next step! *LOL* Once I got the pics, I could tell him, "Hey, I see what the problem is! Send them to me and I'll tweak them for you and they'll really fly!"

And they would...right outta his hands and into mine!


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## Big Ed

mikesdaddy said:


> Thanks all.....I've found that three cars is the happy place for this particular setup. Works and looks good, all who've visited and seen the shiny cars have complimented on how beautiful they are. All is well.


Did your tender have the weight in it?


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## mikesdaddy

big ed said:


> Did your tender have the weight in it?



Yes, the weight is there. I don't know why one extra passenger car makes the tender wobble. Could be the coupler needs adjusting...not sure. With the 3 passenger cars it runs nearly perfect, so I'm going to go with that setup for now.


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## Stillakid

Have you rotated the 3 car set-up to see if it wobbles using one of the cars?

This may sound crazy but, try all 4 cars, but hold on to the last car. Give it power and see if one of the cars(or tender) breaks contact with the track. That might show where a coupler(s) are out of alignment.


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## Reckers

If I might offer an opinion: I believe the frame of the tender is twisted slightly. This would create the problem you're having. Consider this: if the frame is completely straight, the weight would rest equally on all four sets of wheels. Now, pick up the frame and twist it slightly: you'll have two opposite corners that are now lower than the other two corners. It would not evidence itself on a light load, but a heavy pull would tend to lift the frame as it's tugged between the locomotive pulling on one coupler and the 660 ensemble dragging the other one. I think that, if you can identify the direction it's torqued out of true and give it a reverse twist, you'll resolve the problem and get all four sets of wheels down on the rails.

Best wishes with it,


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## Stillakid

And that, "Oh King of S", is why you get paid the big bucks!!


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## Reckers

*LOL* Because I'm twisted?


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## mikesdaddy

Lol, I think you're all a bit twisted! Reckers, thanks for the tip.

Here is a better video showing off the excellent smoke production from my old 283. She's wowing all our Christmas visitors with her vintage charm. "Wow, now THAT'S a train!" was my favorite reply so far.

Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/6WZcv08MWLM


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## Big Ed

That does smoke nice, I like the chugging too.:thumbsup:
What makes the chugging sound? Do you know?

Keep an eye open for rug lint getting up in the engine.

Find a little Santa and stick him in the cab.:thumbsup:


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## mikesdaddy

big ed said:


> That does smoke nice, I like the chugging too.:thumbsup:
> *What makes the chugging sound? Do you know?
> *
> Keep an eye open for rug lint getting up in the engine.
> 
> Find a little Santa and stick him in the cab.:thumbsup:



Big Ed,

Either you're messing with me, or you're not an American Flyer guy! 

The same piston arrangement that pushes the smoke out the stack also produces the "choo choo" sound when the air goes through a baffle. Ingenious! And part of why American Flyer appeals to me so much!


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## Reckers

Mikesdaddy, you're more than welcome. Ed, I posted a pic of a Junque lot I purchased recently in Nashville, TN on this thread: http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9585

AF steamers with the "chuff", as it's called, have a diagonally-mounted cylinder and piston. The piston is gear-driven and pushes air up the cylinder, making the sound. Like a real train, the chuff increases with the speed of the train---makes a great sound very much like the real thing. Each chuff also blows out a puff of smoke.


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## Reckers

Beautiful video, Mikesdaddy! Oh, and Ed? You can get the smoke in a variety of scents---I'm currently running Bayberry for Christmas in my smokers!


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## tjcruiser

MikesDaddy,

That train looks GREAT under the tree ... those passenger cars are just glistening with character!

TJ


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## Big Ed

mikesdaddy said:


> Big Ed,
> 
> Either you're messing with me, or you're not an American Flyer guy!
> 
> The same piston arrangement that pushes the smoke out the stack also produces the "choo choo" sound when the air goes through a baffle. Ingenious! And part of why American Flyer appeals to me so much!


As you see that Tim already protested that I was even on the S forum, I never ran Flyers.
I would not ask if I did not want to know.
Smokes like heck.:thumbsup:
That is why I also asked what radius AF offered in track too, but I think, no one answered me yet.

Others just think I am cooking a pot to boil over too.

You can't learn if you don't ask.

Between my O and the HO I still want to build on the other side of the dungeon I do have quite a bit of N. 
If I had more room S would be nice, maybe when the kids move out. 



Reckers said:


> Mikesdaddy, you're more than welcome. Ed, I posted a pic of a Junque lot I purchased recently in Nashville, TN on this thread: http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9585
> 
> AF steamers with the "chuff", as it's called, have a diagonally-mounted cylinder and piston. The piston is gear-driven and pushes air up the cylinder, making the sound. Like a real train, the chuff increases with the speed of the train---makes a great sound very much like the real thing. Each chuff also blows out a puff of smoke.


I like the sound, maybe I will start buying some to get ready when the kids move out. Between their 2 rooms upstairs I could add a nice S layout up there.

I saw the junk thread Len, I commented.:thumbsup:
You......didn't answer either.
Do you have enough done to set up your (hers) Christmas village?

I will say it again....I LIKE ALL GAUGES/SCALES trains are trains, I don't discriminate.


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## Reckers

Ed's a good guy, fellows: he gave me one of my first locomotives and has always been supportive of S scalers. Ed, I'm sorry I didn't answer your question on the other thread: I'll go back, find it and respond. Christmas has been running me ragged! 

As for the Village, that's a long-term project. She has two Christmas Villages: one on the layout and a larger one in the living room floor, around the tree. The latter also has a Motorific track layout, and I'm the tote-that-load guy for the house when that stuff gets moved from the basement to the living room. In addition, I'm the resident Motorific mechanic, and those things are fickle!

The train layout side of it is slowly progressing, but I'll still be working on it this time, next year. I've painted in a rough circular road to create a village green with a central gazebo; a road leaving one way to one of the stockyards and another to the eventual train station. The buildings are placed around that circle, but I have to drill and install the lighting for the buildings. By July, perhaps, I can sprinkle some snow on that end! The other end of the table will be another stockyard, some woods and a graveyard for halloween. I bought some ice skaters in Nashville, so I can glue them onto the pond this weekend.

Finally, to the best of my knowledge, S scale American Flyer track comes in one size. There are probably other companies that make S scale track that's not interchangeable and is more modern in appearance, but AF is the one most of us work with. High-railers and modern equipment runners lean toward the newer stuff.

Thank you for your suggestions, Ed: I appreciate ya!


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Ed's a good guy, fellows: he gave me one of my first locomotives and has always been supportive of S scalers. Ed, I'm sorry I didn't answer your question on the other thread: I'll go back, find it and respond. Christmas has been running me ragged!
> 
> As for the Village, that's a long-term project. She has two Christmas Villages: one on the layout and a larger one in the living room floor, around the tree. The latter also has a Motorific track layout, and I'm the tote-that-load guy for the house when that stuff gets moved from the basement to the living room. In addition, I'm the resident Motorific mechanic, and those things are fickle!
> 
> The train layout side of it is slowly progressing, but I'll still be working on it this time, next year. I've painted in a rough circular road to create a village green with a central gazebo; a road leaving one way to one of the stockyards and another to the eventual train station. The buildings are placed around that circle, but I have to drill and install the lighting for the buildings. By July, perhaps, I can sprinkle some snow on that end! The other end of the table will be another stockyard, some woods and a graveyard for halloween. I bought some ice skaters in Nashville, so I can glue them onto the pond this weekend.
> 
> Finally, to the best of my knowledge, S scale American Flyer track comes in one size. There are probably other companies that make S scale track that's not interchangeable and is more modern in appearance, but AF is the one most of us work with. High-railers and modern equipment runners lean toward the newer stuff.
> 
> Thank you for your suggestions, Ed: I appreciate ya!


Buy July!

Motorific trains? I heard of them in battery operated slot cars but not in trains.

The track, I was asking about if flyer made different curve sizes.
Like Lionel comes in o/27,O/42,O/54, O/72. And more.
They just had one size curve?

Thanks, for the support. I need a little when I venture in the S zone.
I searched for the track size but came up empty handed. hwell:


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## Reckers

Just the one size, Ed: the track was made in full (roughly 10") length and half-length for both curves and straight. No variation unless you create it, yourself. Timboy excells at building his own track, incidentally, so he could address that better than I can. The Motorific is all cars, not trains, but takes about 5 times the maintenance. Why couldn't she just collect pet rocks?


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## Big Ed

Reckers said:


> Just the one size, Ed: the track was made in full (roughly 10") length and half-length for both curves and straight. No variation unless you create it, yourself. Timboy excells at building his own track, incidentally, so he could address that better than I can. The Motorific is all cars, not trains, but takes about 5 times the maintenance. Why couldn't she just collect pet rocks?



That sounds like the way to go, with hand laid track.

Tim tell ME? :laugh:
I don't think so.


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## flyernut

Use GarGraves Flex Track. It's great stuff and your trains will love it.


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## markjs

I also use Gargraves track, but the sectional type which comes in 45, 54 and 63 inch radii. Love those genuine wood ties! It is also compatible with AF track; in fact I still use my AF turnouts (switches). I use the flex track for those places where I need a custom length or radius.

WELCOME TO "S."


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## flyernut

markjs said:


> I also use Gargraves track, but the sectional type which comes in 45, 54 and 63 inch radii. Love those genuine wood ties! It is also compatible with AF track; in fact I still use my AF turnouts (switches). I use the flex track for those places where I need a custom length or radius.
> 
> WELCOME TO "S."


Yep, good stuff!!! The shop where they make the track is just a few miles from me, and I do 99% of my business with them. They're great people.


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## Reckers

It could happen....*looking away, whistling...*


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## Rich_Trains

*Promised Report*



Rich_Trains said:


> I will dig out the F40 sometime this week and report back. I'll also look at the 293 again now that I saw your video.
> Rich


Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The F40 had enough power to pull all four of the aluminum cars. The only problem were derailments when starting. The weight of the cars pulled the rear trucks of the F40 off the rails most of the time, before the engine could get the cars moving. 

The 293 pulled all fours cars but slower, even at full power, than the 283 as shown in your video.

I couldn't run the SantaFe ALCo because it's down for repairs waiting for brushes.

The De Luxe SantaFe set in 1951 consisted of only three of the cars; 960, 962, and 963. It also had the B unit with the speaker for the air chime whistle. The 961 was available separately. I wonder if Gilbert didn't include all four cars in the set because of the excessive weight.

Rich


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