# Running a MTH Proto on a Cab-1



## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Well I'm back after getting some major work done on my teeth over the past month. While I was recovering I made a few bold moves (train purchases) and started moving into the world of TMCC for beginners. I first purchased a MTH McDonalds F40PH Loco with what I believe is Proto 1 in it and a PRR lighted streamlined passenger car. I'm using my MRC 270W transformer with a lighted car behide the F40PH and it seems to run ok with some of the sound effects working. It does seem to throttle ok at low speeeds with the sound matching good. I'm wondering how I can assign a loco number for this MTH in my Cab-1 when it gets here (still on the way). I aslo had a chance to purchase a Lionel AT & SF Hudson with tender #3462 that has Railsounds in it and would like to run this on the same track. Any help would be greaty appreciated as always.

Thanks Mike


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

When I first tried the McDonalds loco without the lighted car behind it I got a lot of crazy crew talk like loading the truck and order taking, something about fries and the train ran poorly at all speeds. But now with the lighted car I only get a few short crew talk sessions with none of those phrases.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

maybe I shouldn't say anything because this is a gunrunnerjohn kinda question, but I 'll try, first ,if it is infact a proto one loco, I don't think your cab -1 is going to do it any good ,its transformer controlled ,like all the old stuff.
second thing ,maybe the craziness you spoke of maybe from a weak battery, proto-1 locos act funny with weak or bad batteries, I would change it out for a cap. type battery and be done with it..............Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mike is correct, the PS/1 locomotive is a fancy conventional locomotive, and your CAB1/command base isn't going to work with it at all.

As far as the Hudson, it is conventional or TMCC?


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

I was going to say something........but didn't want to look like an ***. 

The TMCC Cab 1 will not work with MTH. 
You need THIS to run MTH locos on command control.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

yes, if you own a proto-2 or proto-3 loco, or unless you convert the ps-1 over to except command control, witch most people don't do because of the cost involved, although, I know people that have converted some nice steam locos, the diesels are just not worth it.
JMO................Mike


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

Would it work if he used a Powermaster with the CAB1??


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The DCS Remote Commander is only for DCS (PS2/3) locomotives. You could use a PowerMaster with just the CAB1 or the TPC if you also have the command base.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Big Mike said:


> maybe I shouldn't say anything because this is a gunrunnerjohn kinda question, but I 'll try, first ,if it is infact a proto one loco, I don't think your cab -1 is going to do it any good ,its transformer controlled ,like all the old stuff.
> second thing ,maybe the craziness you spoke of maybe from a weak battery, proto-1 locos act funny with weak or bad batteries, I would change it out for a cap. type battery and be done with it..............Mike


Mike the battery is good but was most likely very low the first time I fired up the loco. After running the loco a couple times for a few mins each the sound works great and last a good 10 secs after shutdown. I'm not really sure what this sound system should sound like factory new but it seems to be doing ok. The bell and whistle work but are inverted for some reason on the controller. I'll try to take a short vid of it starting and runiing with the MRC. I also should have a older ZW that I could run it on but was wondering if I can just run it in conventional mode on the Cab-1 if there is such a thing.

Thanks Mike


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

To run conventional with the Cab 1 you will need a transformer/powerhouse, the Cab 1 command base and a Powermaster. 

With all three of those you can run a conventional transformer controlled locomotive as "TMCC" - otherwise there is no way. 


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Mike is correct, the PS/1 locomotive is a fancy conventional locomotive, and your CAB1/command base isn't going to work with it at all.
> 
> As far as the Hudson, it is conventional or TMCC?


John I'm not really sure if its a TMCC or not. The seller had it listed as a 6-28009 with #3462 tender. It is marked Lionel LLC Chesterfield,MI on the bottom and has a smoke, and the run or program switch also. The tender is marked the same and has a switch for Rail Sound or Signal Sound. I really havent found much information on these trains so far. My question is can I run both the Hudson and the MTH on the Cab-1 in conventional mode, being that I'm planning on purchasing more TMCC Loco's and want to run them all with the same transformer.

Thanks Mike


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

Yes you can - read my post. 

You just need to use the Powermaster in the mix to control the track voltage. 

The Lionel blog has some useful video series on how to wire this all up and running it. 
It actually addresses this question specifically. 


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

SNK said:


> To run conventional with the Cab 1 you will need a transformer/powerhouse, the Cab 1 command base and a Powermaster.
> 
> With all three of those you can run a conventional transformer controlled locomotive as "TMCC" - otherwise there is no way.
> 
> ...


Ok I think I'm getting it now. I already have the trainmaster and cab-1 now if I can hook those up to one of my transformers it should work. I would like to use the older ZW I'm getting this week or the MRC dual. Not sure how to wire it though. In all I want to run 6 trains on 4 different tracks with one transformer off the cab-1. 

Thanks Mike


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

SNK said:


> Yes you can - read my post.
> 
> You just need to use the Powermaster in the mix to control the track voltage.
> 
> ...


I know what the powermaster is, but I already have the MRC and the ZW coming later this week. Would love to use one of those instead of a powermaster?

Thanks Mike


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

I'm going to link you to to blog when I get back to my computer and you can watch the vid - it is much easier then trying to have it explained and it worked for me. 

Give me about 10 minutes and I'll have that up. 
Like I said - it addresses this specific question about using conventional locos on TMCC and it should show you what you need. 

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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The DCS Remote Commander is only for DCS (PS2/3) locomotives. You could use a PowerMaster with just the CAB1 or the TPC if you also have the command base.


Not sure what a TPC is John but the photo I posted shows what I'm getting. Looks like a trainmaster base and a cab-1 remote.

Thanks Mike


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

SNK said:


> I'm going to link you to to blog when I get back to my computer and you can watch the vid - it is much easier then trying to have it explained and it worked for me.
> 
> Give me about 10 minutes and I'll have that up.
> Like I said - it addresses this specific question about using conventional locos on TMCC and it should show you what you need.
> ...


Sounds good.

Thanks


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

No problem man - hope I didn't sound rude - the video series was actually what answered a bunch of my questions and your questions look like the ones that I was asking - so hopefully it works for you. 

Good luck! 


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

SNK said:


> No problem man - hope I didn't sound rude - the video series was actually what answered a bunch of my questions and your questions look like the ones that I was asking - so hopefully it works for you.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> ...


Cool and no you didnt sound rude. Its all about the learning and understanding of these trains for me anyway. So all is good. What part of Va are you from? I grew up in Alexandria, Va in the 70's.

Mike


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

Lionel Blog - Intro to Command Control

Go there and read it - there are links in there that have videos attached that you can watch. It really worked for me. 

I live in Poquoson - outside Hampton on the Peninsula. 
Hope this helps!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The 6-28009 appears to be a command upgradable locomotive that also came in a command version. The upgradable one was simple to upgrade, basically you just had to replace the electronic reverse unit with the R2LC TMCC board, it was a pull one plug, put another one in deal. So, it may either be a TMCC equipped locomotive, or could easily become one.

If you're running the TMCC/Legacy stuff in command, it's difficult to impossible to run conventional locomotives on the same track at the same time. If you want to take turns, it's no problem.

We really need to know the operating environment to make specific recommendations.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The 6-28009 appears to be a command upgradable locomotive that also came in a command version. The upgradable one was simple to upgrade, basically you just had to replace the electronic reverse unit with the R2LC TMCC board, it was a pull one plug, put another one in deal. So, it may either be a TMCC equipped locomotive, or could easily become one.
> 
> If you're running the TMCC/Legacy stuff in command, it's difficult to impossible to run conventional locomotives on the same track at the same time. If you want to take turns, it's no problem.
> 
> We really need to know the operating environment to make specific recommendations.


Hey John thanks for the reply. I have the Cab-1 remote & Trainmaster base (as seen in photo). Its my understanding that I also need a powerhouse of some kind. I wont be running any trains on the same tarck at the same time. What I have right now is a MRC 270W dual power transformer and a CW80. I hope to be picking up a older ZW tomorrow morning and thats what I would like to power the Cab-1 system. I'm hoping to try the AT & SF to see if it has TMCC in it. I'll be using insulated sections to run just 2 trains at different times on the same track (super O). I'll have most of the other trains running on another track (027) besides that one. Something simular to this but with 2 insulated sideouts on the super O track.

Thanks Mike


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

SNK said:


> Lionel Blog - Intro to Command Control
> 
> Go there and read it - there are links in there that have videos attached that you can watch. It really worked for me.
> 
> ...


thanks the link and the vid helped me understand how the cab-1 works.


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## SNK (Sep 16, 2013)

No problem - glad to help! 


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

For TMCC/Legacy locomotives, the CAB1 & Command Base is all you need. For conventional locomotives (including MTH PS/1), you'll need either a PowerMaster or a TPC as well. Note that certain conventional locomotive with electronic controls may have issues running with either the PowerMaster or TPC chopped waveform outputs. Sometimes it helps to put a 50uf non-polarized capacitor across the rails for these locomotives.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> For TMCC/Legacy locomotives, the CAB1 & Command Base is all you need. For conventional locomotives (including MTH PS/1), you'll need either a PowerMaster or a TPC as well. Note that certain conventional locomotive with electronic controls may have issues running with either the PowerMaster or TPC chopped waveform outputs. Sometimes it helps to put a 50uf non-polarized capacitor across the rails for these locomotives.


Thanks John. I'll find out later today when the Cab-1 gets here in the mail. Maybe you can explain how to hook up a capacitor to my track. I'll only be running the At & SF and the MTH F40PH on the super O track at different times with two insulated sideouts. The other track will be 027 and have 3 or 4 insulated sections. I only plan on runnung one train per track at the same time. I was hoping to run alll the trains using the cab-1 powered by the ZW or MRC. The MTH runs fine now with a lighted car in tow and thats all I'm looking for going forward.

Thanks Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The cap would only be used if you run into issues with the PowerMaster or TPC controlling stuff like PS/1 locomotives. It just connects right across the track feed.


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