# ? about gp18 proto 2000................



## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

units, I have 4 units, one is not showing any signs of life, gonna try & test ths circuits later, my main concern is all three that do run have a rough sound to them like something isn't meshing right or something is dragging on the RR ties(but all parts seem to clear those.)
My E8/9 units ran well & did not do this! any ideas,Rich.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

If they are the early ones, then you could have the gear issues that plagued them back then. If I'm not mistaken, early P2K used Athearn parts in the mix. If that is so, then repairs shouldn't be too hard.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

used a continuity tester on the dead one, looks like opposite trucks pick up the power, but I get continuity on each brass rod from the same set of outside wheels, could the truck be reversed.
of course I stripped on of the brass screws trying to get it open to see if i could flip it!


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

Pretty much all the GP18's, GP7/9's have the splitting axle gear issue. Get replacements, use Athearn ones as they are the same and easier to get. Your local hobby shop that stocks new Athearn can order the axle gears as a replacement part. I recommend changing all the axle gears in every locomotive, solves the problem once and for all. Mike


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

More miracles, was putting power to the leads to see what worked & what didn't & it started running, only thing wrong that I could find is the foward light is dead. 
found it was the other side that picked up neg power, still can't find the actual wire.It also has the rough sound.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

How the heck do you get these apart. I had the one screw backed out, the other I had to drill out, nothing gives


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

There is two small screws on both ends behind couplers


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Now since you boogered them up sell them to me..lol

Seriously I just replaced all my axle gears and not one was good some had chunks out some were cracked so bad I didnt need a magnifying glass lol!

Oh and if you have blobs of solder that might be touching the upper frame and the truck tabs might be bent and hitting the upper frame ( weighted cover)


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Thank you, mann I didn't even see those, could they make em any smaller!
OK not enough wire to get it all the way off, but for future referance, is the yellow wire the neutral, looks like the frame acts as the pu off the wheels for the neutral, hot side on the bars that the wires are soldered to go up to the motor. & the blue wire on top, is that neutral also, does it go thru a hole or jut connect to the metal right there.
Last question, the black "transistors"or"resistors" are they just for the dirrectional lights or do they serve another purpose?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Mechinal side, are these the gear types that need to be replaced?


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Yes to the gears

Where is your power pick up tab? 

Yellow wire ground from lower tab take a separate wire solder it next to original yellow wire then snip original now lower tab has a small tab heat tab and poke new wire through it then you can flip off shell easier


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Almost forgot... I never liked the clearance so I took a dremmal in the valley pockets and now my Protos are whisper quite


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

One side has metal tabs with the red & black wires soldered to them, the othe side I can not find a tab or wire going to the wheel pick up bars, I'm thinking there using the whole frame as neutral, yellow wire goes down into the bottom but I cant see the connection(or what it's connected to) 
When you say axle gears, you mean just the ones on the axel or the whole set in the gear box, & how do the trucks come off? 
Are you lovin amature night yet! thanks,Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Lol I ran across some engines that I have no clue how to take shell off so we all have been there..


Just wait till you see my Illinois central gp8 on a proto gp7

Still not 100% what the shell went to but I got it to fit snug


Anyways have you tested just the motor or did it work?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Yes motor works, i got it running, everything worked cept the foward light. but now You may get your wish! more buggering.
unsoldered the power leads,(red & black) got the top off , yellow wire looks like it goes under the motor to the brush spring.the blue wire at the top poped off, it went nowhere, I drilled out the plastic plug that held it & it only goes down about 1/8 of an inch so a ground to the body??? 
Top brush spring popped out on me, still looking at how to get the trucks off, by the time I'm done i may have a box of spare parts for you!hwell: Rich.
Good thing i have a lot of these to practice on,I wont touch the other 3 unless I do this one perfect! Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Ok take a screw driver and pry on the cover holding the worm gear in.. I go From the side and have yet broke one so they are durable

That's how I take the truck off 


If you get discouraged and give up let me know cause outside of the cracked gears I like the proto

Also if you want to inspect the axle gear

Flip it over and put a screw driver under tab and go back and forth prying up a little

Or find the tab/s about mid way and pry there 

Jeweler screw driver sets are you best friend here


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I can roll the motor & see the bigger gear from the bottom, that looks ok, is it the smaller gears on the axel that tear up.
anyidea if that blue wire is actually the ground, gonna play a little more & put power to it apart & see what actually does what! (I hope!)


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

OK got it apart, axel gears are cracked along the seam the long way, also, hit power to yellow & top motor brush spring,she runs, hit same to blue & motor brush spring & she runs, must be using the body as the neutral side.
Now the key will be if i can get it all back together, the axel gears I can do from the bottom, or does it have to be apart ? Rich.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Ok so I need 16 of the axel gears , any of you guys deal with them, I'd rather deal here than go elsewhere.
Now do i need to buy wheel sets or can the gears be bought seperatly.
I found papers on an athern GE-B loco shows a( wheel assembly powered #40019 ) is that the right part #. Thanks,Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Part number is ath60024

Wheels are pretty decent 

Now just As an heads up the athearn will a pita at first to put on and they will go on no matter how you curse lol

And yes you can swap gears without taking it apart


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I notice you are selling stuff got any switchers? Sw style?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

First, is that part # for the gears or the whole wheel sets?
Second, I have a few switchers, sorry for my lack of knowledge but what is an sw type? Thanks for all the help,Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Yes axle gear only. 4.95 for 6 so you gonna need about 50 bucks worth..

Put up pics and I'll tell ya which one I want lol


And don't sweat the small stuff.. If you didn't ask you'd have a pile of parts and pissed the rest of the day cause you shoulda asked


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

you said 6, don't I need 4 for each engine, front & rear trucks
I have 4 engines.
here's a pic of the switchers, the ge is gone1


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

They come in 6's. So yes 4 per loco but I thought you had more than 4 well yeah 4 packs will cover ya just in case you have others..

The red and green is the style I was looking for what kind are they mantua Bachmann athearn ahm?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I think it's an athern, box says sw1500 pwr undecorated , other one is in a wrong box.
here's a pick of the bottom if it helps, it has a # on it # 40418


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Pm me a price for the one right there..


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_0226.jpg

Here my proto/illinois central hybrid that I'm working on


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

What are you doing to it? 
I have the same burlington coal car in my diorama!
Sending pm now!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

It was a shell that belonged to nothing and after research and talking with a friend that said it wS a kaslo knock off. Where there shells alone are 115.00 for a Paducah gp8..?

So this is what I came up with

I need the right fuel tank. The bell... The Horst air unit put the rear safety chain back on

Depending on LEDs might go and see what micro lights down the street has..

I have pics of the # 7909 so I'm going to try and match it as close as I can get


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Sounds like a cool project, boy do I have a long way to go, I can't even take one apart yet, let alone rebuild it! 
But thanks to you guys i'm learning a lot! Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Np. I just scratch built 6 engines from buddies Bone yards junk boxes and left over basket cases.. After the icg build I got an Amtrak p40/42/103 that needs a replacement kit and it's done.. My son will get 7 trains and I got a few more that I'm gonna try and combine and make one more.. Not bad since I have zero money invested in them.. 

Most people I deal with throw good stuff away cause they don't want to mess with it


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I like to Tinker, I'm in a different position, I have way more here than I can realisticly keep, even if i sell half of what Dad accumulated I'll still have a really nice collection.
Some of the repairs I've attempted are on the low end stuff, probably not worth the trouble to most, but it's a good place for me to start, learn & then if a good peice needs work i'll be a little better able to handle it without worrying I'll screw up a good piece! 
But thats the fun of it, learning something new, getting things fixed & spending some quality time with Dads stuff! Rich.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

OK tinkering done for now(I still have 1 batch of wires to solder & get a more permenant ground position)
Something was screwed up in that batch of resistors,overloading my transformer so I decided to try without them & use both lights all the time. So I removed them, wired the grounds together & used the brass chassie mounting screw as the ground point.wired all hots together & gave it a test run, runs good foward & reverse & lights are both on all the time. 
I'll do up the rest more permanantly after I decide if this is how i'll keep it,or if I try to go back to original. needless to say this one will be a keeper. my own frankinstein!
Now I have to hunt down the gear sets.
Oh & I found that the Chassie is the ground, the wheel pickup bars go to the center of the truck & contact a "lug?" there. Rich.
Here's frankie!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Looks good... Atleast it's clean looking 

Btw I will never trust my eyes again lol my daughter wanted to help with my proto gp9 so I let her clean the gears and what do ya know she found a cracked axle gear after I said clean it... So I'm ordering 2 bags this time!


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

RUSTY Cuda said:


> Oh & I found that the Chassie is the ground, the wheel pickup bars go to the center of the truck & contact a "lug?" there. Rich.


This is how Athearn does theirs, as well. At least they used to on the blue box stuff. Aside from the motor, flywheels, and the weight surrounding it, that could be mistaken for Athearn.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

My greatest pleasure in this hobby is to point to a loco and say, "It runs cuz o' me..." :thumbsup: 

Good work, that batch of "resistors" is actually diodes, probably used in a directional lighting circuit, an easy enough fix should that ever become important to you in the future. 

My Mantua 2-6-6-2 had a complex circuit in the wiring that I couldn't figure out...I just cut it out and hard wired the motor. Whatever all that crud was I haven't missed as it purrs like a kitten so don't be afraid to remove stuff like that.


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

If you get a chance Cuda, pick up some Athearn Blomberg "B" side frames for the trucks, they are way and I do mean way better than the Proto ones. The swing hangers that hold the springs dont "hang" out in mid air like the proto ones. They are a direct change out for the proto ones. The Chinese copied the Athearn blue box power trucks almost exactly for those early proto diesels. I want to pick up the Susquehanna GP18's one day, but not gonna pay what that road name fetches on fleabay right now. Mike


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Ok I got a question on the history of the Protos...how does it start pk1 first addition pk2 then pk2 dcc ready it what? Both of mine are like cuda's and the store I got them from treats them like 1990's life-like trains therefore I only paid 5 bucks a piece for them..should I buy him out?


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

There is a certain satifaction in getting something to work, I'm always too hard on myself when i adlib a tad  Same as when i built the car, was never good enough, but as my friends pointed out, it's your first one, you did 90% by yourself in your back yard, you should be proud of what you did instead of pointing out all the minor defects! hwell:
But thats the part I love, the building rather than standing back & admiring something you bought, Yet that has it's rewards also!  Rich.

mtoney, is this what your lookin for, I have 2, have not done the gears yet, also have not messed with em, just the test run, all else seems good cept the clunkity sound.
Make me an offer, these have little or no actual run time, boxes are in good shape too.
here's one..........


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Just did a search of 5 on line stores for the gear sets, none of them show parts, anyone have a link to someone that sells parts on line, looking for gear sets part # ath60024
Thanks ,Rich.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Grabbem88 said:


> ...I only paid 5 bucks a piece for them..should I buy him out?


As fast as I could...:thumbsup:


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Omfg rich! Are you serious? What else do ya have?? Lol those are sweet! 

Mtoney can have them since that's what he's looking for just saying that you have an awesome collection!!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

You got a hobbytown USA close by? Got mine ordered through the store for like 4.95


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Grabbem88 said:


> You got a hobbytown USA close by? Got mine ordered through the store for like 4.95


Ours died a painful death about a year ago...


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well if you guys are paying over 8-10 bucks shipped or ordered let me know cause I gotta order some and I'll ship them to ya . I think a standard envelope with paper wrapped over it would get them to where ever in damaged


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Nothing close, was trying to avoid spending 50 bucks in gas to get a few small parts.

Grabbem, you have to search some of my earlier posts, His collection was pretty big, bout 27 steamers, 60ish deisels, 190 freight cars & about 70 or 80 pass cars, the smalls are incredible! 
actually picked up another load today, will get pics up in the new begining post later tonight or tomorrow!  Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing it and let me know if you cone across any Peabody coal..


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Soldered the rest of the wires & tried to put it back together, after breaking the front light bulb & doing it all over again I got it back together,  then in the test run had some trouble with the top brass pickup that feeds the upper brush spring, kept shorting out to the frame, ended up putting a layer of black tape between it & the body, & put it back together AGAIN  hope it stays put!  Rich.
IT LIVES!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I think I got that shell tossed to the side since I lost those stupid shell holders took out the mu cables first try lol


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Ureka! :thumbsup: I found the gears at a good price, did the ebay search again & this came up.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350653276562?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
just ordered 3 packs  Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Good deal and clOse by too


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

OK, put the gears in today, mixed results, not sure whats wrong, but she's in pieces again.
gears were the easy part, grabbem I see what you mean, were not going on with finger pressure, so good thing I brought home those tools, pulled out the mini press & they popped right in.

















Put a dab of grease on each & put it back together.










So thats when the test run failed, did that shorting thing again, pulled it apart,got it to run apart, but seems like some of those gears are not meshing properly only one set of wheels on each truck spinning, then I broke the ground wire from the rod under the motor, thats where she's at now, thats a tough place to solder without pulling the motor
good thing I did this to frankenstien, now I'm afraid to try putting the gears in the other locos! Rich.


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## lears2005 (Feb 26, 2010)

Keep at it you will get there


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

If it's shorting put a scalpel blade in-between one wheel and gear to get a slight gap 

Next make sure your hot tabs on the truck are not touching frame 

Last if you can't get a good ground drill a hole and put a tiny screw in it and solder to it 


If you give up I'll fix it for ya no charge


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I think the short is on the top brush bar touching the frame, it was taped to a small piece of material, i could not get that back,I tried to seal it off by putting black tape on the top of the pick up bar, it worked for a while
The wheel thing is messing with me, they look like they poped right back in where they were, but only one set on each truck is spinning.
I have to resolder that wire first, after that I'll mess with your suggestions on the wheels & see what I Get! Thanks Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Don't be afraid to grind that frame to get clearance with that tab!

Does it run without the shell?

If so back off the screws put shell run it. Then tighten re test till you are happy with It


Oh and I ground the whole inside of mine and took off 1.5mm on the outside so my icg would fit on the frame and you would never know!lol


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

You're much too new in the hobby to have an arbor press. Tell ya what...send it to me with the parts you need pressed, then I'll send them back--the parts that is. I'll take care of the press for you while your skills grow in other areas of the hobby. After 5-6 years, I'll send it back to you...:thumbsup:

More than likely, you've got the wheelsets pressed too tightly for the axles to roll in their bearings. Just space them out with an Xacto blade, the check them with an NMRA standards gauge. Glad to see you diving in like this...:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Shay, check out my latest post in the new begining thread, brought home mostly tools this trip, I can make my own stuff now(well almost) there's quite a lack of hands on experience here! 

OK, I saw a guage somewhere,next time I get some tinkering time I'll dig it out & post a pic.

Grabbem, ok between the two of you I've got a lot to check, I used much heavier wire for my extensions, I'm gonna start fresh with a closer guage to what was orig, make em longer & then mess with that upper brush bar.Once I get that set I can mess with clearences & such, time will tell, otherwise I may take you up on your offer! 

Thanks guys,Rich.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well you got my add.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

OK I got it 99%  rewired the whole unit slightly heavier guage wire than orig but lighter then I used before, went with direct lighting, no reverse. the 1% doubt is when I pushed down the shell real tight she shorted out again, pulled it up a tad & she runs good, no more clunkity clunk.
I did space out the gears with the exacto while it was apart.
wiring job...........









all lit up & no place to go!










anybody know where these go, look like tiny versions of the sun visors, looked with the magnafing specs & cant find any more on there & no slots for them? kept falling off while I was messing with the shell.


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Got the new gears in the other norfork, got out the wheel guage(thanks shay) & actually did it right the first time, no redo's, now I have 2 smooth running GP18's  
Grabbem,on the first one I ended up stripping the wire right where it solders to the lower brush bar, running that under the inner body by the brass screw & then extending it up for a ground to the lights, less wires on the side, much neater job. Thanks! Rich.


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