# T-man 1688 1668



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T -man I came across this in your album. ( I left a comment too.)

Did you ever do anything about fixing this up?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I got confused on the engine numbers. But the oriiginal is a 1689 because of the eunit slot in the front . I bought a 1688 shell with a slot in the rear.
Repair of the shell stopped when I couldn't decide on how tofix it. I toyed withthe idea of cutting one up to fit the old one with new sides and piece it together. In the meantime I bought a shell for it a 1689. The old 1668 has a slot for the e unit in front . The motor works fine, but I need parts. The ebay one has a rear slot. I noticed the new ebay has a chip off the back side, otherwise in good shape.

A picture of the bad side of the shell. Pretty big hole, wouldn't you say.









So I am stil thinking about it. ED, I Love the shots of the shells. I like the torpedo look. Especially the metal look. I will either fix this one or get another or maybe even both. But that is the fun I have I have many options and things to do. 

Currently I am working on a caboose project. I am adding side extensions to a typical brown caboose. I guess it makes it lok like an extra large cupola? I do not know the term nor the style I am trying to do.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

How the heck did the shell get like that?
I was going to give you this one, but it won't help you out as the slot for the e unit is in the wrong place.
All this needs is a custom T-mans paint job and the red marker lights.
That is quite a large hole in the shell.
Oh well back to the drawing board. I have another box of old shells somewhere. I will look. If I got a 1689 your welcome to it free of charge. But I don't think I have one or I would have put it with this bunch to keep them all together.








I like the 289E shell with the steps in the front. Rarer too.
It's in my album along with the other 3.

Would the engine fit if you could cut a hole in the front for the lever?
Probably not.
I noticed the back inside of the cabs solid on some the others like this black one are open.
A picture of the open one as some are solid metal inside the cab.
I don't have a picture of the solid one. (you know what I'm talking about?)

What does the back inside of the cab of a 1669 look like? Solid or open?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Isn't that shell something! That came from a box I bought up the street mostly prewar. The broken off pieces were long gone.My 248 was in the same box. 

The slots are a problem. I may just reverse the engine and go with it. Maybe in my future I will find a 1689 with a forward slot. 

I did notice your 289e Real Nice. Hang on to it.
The shell you showed me? I would strip it and keep it natural.
I guess fixing the old 1689 just wouldn't look right
I do have the extra lights. They came in an ebay parts lot. I have tons of used rods but they all seem too large.

My cabs are closed.








I appreciate the thought, Thanks!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This Tender # 6403B has been renamed. Not by me. lol

I bought this tender with the intent to redo the whole thing for the CNJRR road.

Note who ever customized it rubbed off the white Lionel Lines on it.
and added a beautiful stencil job too.

Stay tuned as one of these days (years?):laugh: I will transform it.

Trestles are under construction too. 10 mph zone speed in effect.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It's a bell ringer!!!
The rivets caught my eye and I look at my later version. I noticed staple end trucks and the 1656 switcher. The post war library told the rest.
I don't have any bells. It looks like a good find. Show the mechanism when you get the chance. Please Please Please. I can see the bell under the frame.

When I paint my Xmas tender it had heat stamper lettering. It will take some sanding to make it disappear. Mine is still visible.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes the B on 6403B is for bell only.
Will get some pictures on the bell.

How do you think I can put back on the white in Lionel Lines?
Dry Transfer? Small paint brush? (with a very steady hand)
I would like to restore the white on it.

I am thinking of maybe painting it the CNJRR's colors green and yellow. (gold)
Though I haven't seen any of there Steamers painted that color.

I won it on e bay with the intent of making it a Central Jersey steamer.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Good question. I have a 212 that was washed out. Painting would be slow. Dry Transfer is probably easier. I may practice the painting I have some tiny brushes







.

Here is the tender I sanded the lettering is still visible.









Here is a decal I used and some sticker lettering to finish.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes I don't want to sand it off. There must be someway. If you dry transfer you have to get just the right sized letters.
I want to put the white back in and decal it Jersey Central.
If you find a way let me know.

By the way the Christmas tender came out great.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Someone painted the 1656 loco too.
I think this is the only switcher loco that came with the Red Markers. And finding one with good markers is hard too as these will topple over and crash if you run them to fast around the curves.


That will get redone too.


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## alcoman (Nov 4, 2009)

big ed said:


> How do you think I can put back on the white in Lionel Lines?


I hate to interrupt what seems like a private conversation... 

Doesn't anyone sell Lionel decals? Can you take a picture of the lettering on a tender that still has it and then Photoshop it into something that can be printed on decal film. Someone on this forum must have an Alps printer that can do decals. 

I seem to recall seeing an ad for a company that will print custom decals. All they need is the original you want printed.

Just a thought. I'll stop interrupting now.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

alcoman said:


> I hate to interrupt what seems like a private conversation...
> 
> Doesn't anyone sell Lionel decals? Can you take a picture of the lettering on a tender that still has it and then Photoshop it into something that can be printed on decal film. Someone on this forum must have an Alps printer that can do decals.
> 
> ...



no one's interrupting that's what forums are for.
I saw reproductions one some where.
don't know about doing the picture thing of it?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

*Bell Tender T asked for.*








Bottom of tender
























This shell has a stamped # inside of the 2203T-4 on it.
I have read something about Lionel using this # for different tenders bodies.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thank you Ed for the view. It's in great shape. Your lettering will be a challenge it's fancy with narrows. Not easy to color. Mine is plain, all with a standard width. For decals I did get a Sante Fe for my F-3 nose. I don't know if they have a standard Lionel Lines? I'll have to ask next time. I have only seen one Co. for custom decals and they were 25.00 a sheet. It didn't stir my interest. My wife has some decal sheets. I was going to rubber stamp something for the tender. I found some AC Moore decal/sticker that worked.
I am happy with the tender for now.
I checked my tender shells they are 1615's. None are lighted.....................yet.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Thank you Ed for the view. It's in great shape. Your lettering will be a challenge it's fancy with narrows. Not easy to color. Mine is plain, all with a standard width. For decals I did get a Sante Fe for my F-3 nose. I don't know if they have a standard Lionel Lines? I'll have to ask next time. I have only seen one Co. for custom decals and they were 25.00 a sheet. It didn't stir my interest. My wife has some decal sheets. I was going to rubber stamp something for the tender. I found some AC Moore decal/sticker that worked.
> I am happy with the tender for now.
> I checked my tender shells they are 1615's. None are lighted.....................yet.


I can find a lot of decals for Lionel, but none to replace the Lionel Lines.

I will have to experiment in my laboratory in my dungeon some more.

I had to take it apart to clean anyway.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T you know my tenders body is cast right.

After taking the decals off some and a light wet sanding I found that the Lionel Lines came right off. Maybe I will leave it off and just add CNJ to it.
With the Lady Liberty decal.


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## alcoman (Nov 4, 2009)

big ed said:


> don't know about doing the picture thing of it?


In a magazine article, someone took a picture of a covered hopper with extreme graffiti on it and then Photoshopped it and printed it on decal film to create a model of the car. Doing the Lionel markings should be much easier, even if it was done one letter at a time. I thought about doing some replacement decals for the toy trucks I saved from my childhood.

I'm really surprised that replacement lettering isn't commercially available with so many people restoring these things. Why doesn't somebody make the letters on a rubber stamp? 

Just random thoughts. I like your Lionel stuff. Brings back fond memories.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

OOOOHHHH Cast! I didn't know. There is someone who has stamps but I think they are just prewar. I'll need to check.

The computer stuff can get elaborate, one guy took pictures of his trains. Mounted them and used them as back drops.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> I got confused on the engine numbers. But the oriiginal is a 1689 because of the eunit slot in the front . I bought a 1688 shell with a slot in the rear.
> Repair of the shell stopped when I couldn't decide on how tofix it. I toyed withthe idea of cutting one up to fit the old one with new sides and piece it together. In the meantime I bought a shell for it a 1689. The old 1668 has a slot for the e unit in front . The motor works fine, but I need parts. The ebay one has a rear slot. I noticed the new ebay has a chip off the back side, otherwise in good shape.


Hey Big Ed, T-Man,

I'll chirp in on this old thread, if you don't mind ...

I've recently gotten the "streamliner" bug, and have been reading/learning about Lionel's pre- and post-war versions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but ...

The 1668 was a 2-6-2 "Loewry Pennsy" with its e-unit forward.

The 1688 was a 2-4-2 sharing the same Loewry Pennsy shell, but with its e-unit aft. And ...

The *1689* was a 2-4-2 Commodore Vanderbilt style loco that did NOT share the shell with the other two. This is the one that had the large swooping body curve above the drive wheels.

To complicate things a bit further, the 238 was a 4-4-2 Loewry Pennsy that looks nearly identical to the 1668 and 1689, but I don't think it actually shared the same shell. E-unit aft on this one.

Right? Set me straight otherwise.

I'm happy to report that I just bid/won a 1668E on ebay. I've seen only pics so far (I know, I know ... always a bit risky), but she looks to be in quite nice shape. I'll post some pics soon in the What's New thread.

Thanks guys!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ from the book you are right.I have had problems trying to id the engine without the number plates so it appears to be the 1668 with the front eunit.
Also I may have refered to e bay.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, T-Man ... I don't mean to question you guys intentionally, but I'm trying to pick up the lingo / loco types / etc, and it's all a bit confusing / daunting at times ... perhaps not just for newbie me, but even a pro like you every now and then!

And, in re-reading this thread just now, I see that you guys refer to a Lionel 289 which -- sure enough -- was yet ANOTHER early streamliner. I've never even seen a picture of that one. I'll keep my eyes open.

(Thanks for the slot car history in the other thread ... brings back old very fun memories!)

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Hey Big Ed, T-Man,
> 
> I'll chirp in on this old thread, if you don't mind ...
> 
> ...



Without looking at the book that sounds right to me.
Chirp.......chirp.....:laugh:


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*I messed up*

TJ, as you know I drooled over a 1668 engine. I waited because of a train meet yesterday. There I found a 1689w tender!!! I got exicted. Now All I need was to go get the engine. BUT it was gonehwell:
So to console myself I bought a tank car and I found Bullwinkle and Rocky. The AF engine was still there a 21140 I believe. But I was bummed out. TJ you were right it was a good deal.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Bummer ... easy come, easy go.

I hope you keep hunting for a 1668, though. It's a really nice loco ... simple but heavy casting ... real "old school" Lionel, I think.

Check ebay ... I've been watching for 1668's there. Be careful, though ... there's LOTS of confusion / misidendification between the 1668 and the 1688. (Mostly human error in the listing.) However, there was a really nice, all-original 1668 listed the other day that actually had 1688 name boards. A "late Friday afternoon at the Lionel factory" loco?

Here's one from a current listing that may interest you:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290422463091&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The seller says it doesn't run, but the pics have it looking pretty much intact with all original components. Nothing that a little T-Man t.l.c. couldn't fix, perhaps?

Funny thing on those pre-war and similar post-war tenders (per your photo) ...

My 1668 has a tender with the vent-louvers forward. My 221 has a tender that's essentially the same tin shell, but with the louvers aft.

You mentioned AF ...

There was a Lionel prewar 238 (similar to the 1668, but more tricked-out) listed on ebay erroneously as an "American Flyer Locomotive". A bit beat up, but servicable. I thought it might go for a real steal ($20?, $30?), with few people looking/finding it. No luck, though ... fetched $84 ... Still, not a bad price for a 238.

Have fun with Rocky and Bullwinkle!

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

I know that you've just bought a "new" Lionel 1668, but if memory (and this thread) serves me right, you had some interest in looking for an additional 1668 shell (only) to rebuilt that hatchet job shown up top. So, FYI ... several days left in auction, but maybe it'll go for a fair (cheap?) price ... 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-1668-Gun...ewItem&pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item483a3e7637

Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ, it's an interesting option. I have 5 days to think about it. Now I am unpacking. I sent two boxes out Monday and they arrived today. Now I have to review my inventory and decide what to do next. The 1668 needs a little work. It tested today but the light kept slipping off and shorting. Cleaning is in order. I also found some N gage, 3 Sante Fe F 3's I have to post them too!
Thanks for all the links.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Welcome back!

Sounds like you're enjoying "Christmas in April" with a few boxes of goodies. I hope Santa has sent you a little "elf cash" to help pay for everything ... including that 1668 shell, if you consider it.

This can easily become an expensive little hobby, as I (and my wife !!! ) are quickly finding out.

Good luck,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Here's a problem. My tender has a broken hook, box style. How would you fix it? I may cut one out and tab it in the slot. I would hate to remove a rivet just to change out the hook.

Also does this look right for a 1668 front.




















Rocky and Bullwinkle made it through the trip in good shape.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Bloody friggin' couplers! You with your broken box-style, me with my latch-style with no cars like that to hook up to it. Bloody friggin' couplers!

I wish I could offer some clear advice on how to fix it. Unfortunately, I have zero experience with box-styles. That said, here's a link for parts that might help ... scroll down to where it says "2800-3" ...

http://www.henningscalemodels.com/store/page36.html

I've never had much success with trying to solder metal parts back on. (If you try, use non-rosin core solder, I think ... right? The rosin-core is for electrical applications ... non-rosin core for mechanical applications.) Have you ever fiddled with "braizing" metal pieces? Sort of half way between soldering and welding. I'll bet your local jewelry shop could help out here, if needed.

Per the loco front, yes, I think it looks similar to mine, shown below. (Your retaining-clip is slightly different, but that's no big deal.) There's definetly left-to-right play (slop) in where the front truck bar (lingo?) attached via a screw to shell frame. Also, I can't tell from your photo ... make sure that there's a metal spring bar just above the truck bar that will give the forward wheels some down-tension.










Hope that all helps!

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

T-Man, can you show a pic of the box-style and the broken portion? I can't get any idea of what you're working with.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Thanks TJ the picture shows a larger clip.
Recker heres the difference.I need to open the slot on the left. My next step.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Oh, I see ... you have the little plate-thingy, it's just pivoted up a bit, as compared to the pic on the right. Gotta clear that slot open ...

Got it! Good luck!

TJ


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I see. Well, since we both know my depth of knowledge on the topic, I'll keep my useless suggestions to myself. I'd like to see how it goes, though. I might one day be stranded on a deserted island with only primitive...ah...maybe I'd best leave that thought unspoken. *L*


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

TJ good link!
Reckers, I need your suggestions/opions/questions. If you understand it I know everyone else will!!!!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

OMG ... too funny ...

Was that a compliment, or a .... (Dohhh!)


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I has been stung by the viper wit of the T-man. *L* Whatever shall I do?

Is that slot bent shut or just jammed?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I believe it is jammed and peened in. More pictures.
Forgive the comment but I couldn't resist.

This is an automatic remote coupler so a transfer of a long bar with a hook won't work. A replacement hook looks to be the best way out.



















This shows the peened end. One of Jim's donations.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

You're never gonna hurt my feelings, Bob. The drivers at work swear I don't have a heart---they say I don't even have a pulse! Your work looks good: sharpening the edges and polishing them smooth will do the trick!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Nice solenoid! I had NO idea that Lionel had automatic box couplers prewar. Neat! A pain in the butt for coupler-to-coupler compatibility (box, latch, knuckle), but still neat.

So ... solenoid arm push little spring-plate-thing which pushes the coupler hook up/down. Clever.

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am in no rush and may wait on a repro part. 
The automatics did come out in prewar. SOme of the boxcars have them I can't remember the series numbers. but that is what makes the difference. One was a 1000 series then the 2000. My other tender the black prewar whistle I got, also has one but is slightly different. I am not sure what is original now the black piece to the coil is plastic. It could be repro unit.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

*1668*

I greased up the gears yesterday and ran the engine. No problems and it runs just fine. My blinking crosswalk appears to be the biggest test It pulls a lot of current. Sparks! I think the engine is grounding through the lights it is enough to interupt the eunit. Otherwise the engine is ok with ucs track and the 022 curve.

The light clip did break I will probably drill through that. Today I stored some cars. I need the room. TJ I am a happy camper. I testes the other whistle tender it works but It should be lubed a little. The other shell auction ends tonight.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Re: 1668 ... good news on your end. I'm happy to hear it. Did the brass (removable) light clip break, or did the cast-metal tab in the loco shell break?

Now ...

BAD NEWS ON MY END ... I'm in a panic  ...

I went to give my 1668 a quick, light run at lunchtime. She went forward for a bit, then I saw a small puff of smoke coming out of the front of the shell. Not good ... no smoke unit, of course. Now, the engine only runs in reverse. No motion in forward.

I've removed the shell, and slid the e-unit up a bit so I could see what's going on there. Here's what I've been able to deduce so far.

1. The e-unit plunger DOES go up and down with transformer on/off cycles. The metal "hand" at the bottom of the plunger IS grabbing the cams on the e-unit wheel and turning that wheel OK with power on/off cycles.

2. I cleaned up the brass "drum" on the bottom of the e-unit. It was a bit dirty, but it's all clean now and looks intact and OK.

3. Each of the little brass "contacts" (4 front, 2 bottom) seem to be making contact with the e-unit drum OK.

However, as I cycle the e-unit, when it gets to what would be the forward position, the engine doesn't run.

Does that puff of smoke mean that I likely fried on of the wires going from the e-unit to the motor itself? If so, I'll have to try to track down which one.

All of the wires are old/original, so it's quite possible they were quite fragile.

If the e-unit plunger goes up/down (it does), that means that the solenoid there is OK, right?

If the motor does run in reverse (it does), that means that the windings on the motor's armature and field are OK, right?

Again ... I'm in panic  ... please tell me that everything will be alright, and that it's likely I'm just looking at a wire fix / replacement.

Help!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It should run OK. Reverse is just as good as forward. It is when it chatters that you have a problem of a bad winding. Just look around for a short in the wire. Sometimes with cans on the brushes the contacts move and touch each other where the wires connect. For forward, check the wire connection. More pressure may be needed at the forward finger on the drum.

My clip broke it was not brass.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Sleepless nights ...*

T-Man,

After a tossing / turning sleepless night (with sad  visions of a 1668 funeral in my mind), I am now breathing an interim sigh of relief ...

I was really afraid that the windings of the armature or field on my 1668 had somehow been hosed. But your comments above gave me good encouragement to do more detective work on my "stuck in reverse" loco.

First, I've looked rather closely at the e-units drum and little contact fingers. Though the plastic part of the drum is a bit worn with age, everthing appears to make proper contact with its mating parts. Or so I would think.

Second, I checked the continuity of each of the wires radiating in/out of the e-unit (to middle rail pickups, armature brushes, field, etc.). All OK.

And still, "reverse only", even though the e-unit plunger DOES cycle up and down OK, and the drum cog spins with each cycle like it should.

So ... what is wrong?

Well ... here's my interim step ...

I stuck little pieces of non-conductive paper underneath all of the little contact fingers of the e-unit, essentially cutting it out of the picture. Then, I paper-clipped and alligator-clipped bypass wires to run hot power directly to one of the armature brushes, and then from the other armature brush to the field. Again, essentially bypassing anything having to do with the e-unit. (Luckily, I didn't have to cut/remove any wires to do this ... my isolating pieces of paper did the trick.)

The good news ...

Using the method above, I can run hot (middle rail) power into Armature Brush A, then feed Armature Brush B into the Field, with a ground (outer rail) to the wheels. Motor runs in reverse OK (as it did). And ...

I can also run power into Armature Brush B, then feed Armature Brush A into the Field. Motor runs in FORWARD OK (YEAH !!!).

This proves that the windings in the armature and field are 100% OK. The problem (still unresolved) must lie somehow in the point-to-point continuity of the contact fingers and the drum of the e-unit. I haven't identified exactly the problem just yet, but I am quite relieved that ...

I DON'T THINK I'LL BE BUYING ANY SMALL COFFINS JUST YET!

I must say that the old Lionel E-Unit Service Manual has been quite helpful in understanding how the drum/fingers with the e-unit all work.

Thanks very much for your help and words of encouragement ... I was really in a panic there!

TJ

Pieces of paper stuck in e-unit fingers to isolate out of picture ... direct power to motor:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> TJ, as you know I drooled over a 1668 engine. I waited because of a train meet yesterday. There I found a 1689w tender!!! I got exicted. Now All I need was to go get the engine. BUT it was gonehwell:
> So to console myself I bought a tank car and I found Bullwinkle and Rocky. The AF engine was still there a 21140 I believe. But I was bummed out. TJ you were right it was a good deal.



Hey T man.

Did you get the new issue of CTT yet?

Theres a layout in there just up your ally.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Really? I haven't seen it. What month MAY?


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> T-Man,
> 
> After a tossing / turning sleepless night (with sad  visions of a 1668 funeral in my mind), I am now breathing an interim sigh of relief ...
> 
> ...




TJ,

Unless I'm mistaken, there is no way the armature can be hosed if the engine moves at all. The e-unit should be reversing the polarity running thru the coil, helping the armature decide which way to spin. In the case of both coil and armature, it's a simple choice of spin/don't spin. If the wire is broken in either, it won't spin, regardless of direction. Keep doing what you're doing and focus on the e-unit.

Also, see if the wiring is screwed up and you're getting a choice of reverse or reverse!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Reck,

I agree ... armature, coil, field are all OK. My problem (still undefined) lies somewhere in the little contact fingers and drum within the e-unit itself. I'll need to do some more digging, and perhaps surgery, but I'm very relieved that there's life left in the motor.

The wiring is old/original ... 1930's cloth-covered style. There are no wire shorts, from what I've tested ... but I'm toying with the idea of replacing the wiring anyway, now that I'm "in the thick of things". Sort of like going to the doctor for a nasty splinter ... "Well, we can remove your appendix, spleen, and give you a vasectomy while we're at it." Dohh!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Really? I haven't seen it. What month MAY?



Yes page 47 in the May issue. 
I thought of you right away.:thumbsup::laugh:

Crummy picture but you get the idea. I think that guy copied from your pictures on this site. *Laugh*


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That guy in the bucket loader is thinking, "Gee ... I've had better days."


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Wow, that is a big step for them. A childish approach. Sounds like another forum I frequent. They must of had some feed back. I know they did have a dinosaur thread . They can't show my 6119 caboose (which is better), because it requires no work or new parts to purchase. So they have made a switch from the enthusiast to the family. That was my beef with them. They did answer the newbie questions but the turnoff was the complex discussions with no pictures. It is amazing the technical expertise they have. I can't believe that they don't have better manuals. They are into publishing, pleasing readers and their sponsors.
Here, you guys are having fun and displaying your wit. Not to mention the assistance you give. I have always believed in the grass roots approach. So enough gab and on with forum.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Agreed. I just sent a flamer into another site, this morning. Some guy who was a big-money collector was bemoaning the common stuff at the York show, saying his beloved hobby couldn't survive without the high-priced collector business. He went on to say that, once everyone could have an item, it was no longer valuable. *L* I wasn't kind to him. I love the wit and the relationships here; I've learned more on this site than I could with 10 years worth of magazines and creeps like that guy.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*TJ's 1668 Patient Update*

Hey guys,

(T-Man ... sorry to continue on here in your thread with my 1668 saga, but this seemed like a good place to lump 1668/1688 fix it stuff.)

Well ... I performed my very first "open-E-unit" surgery today. Popped the cheek plates open, removed the drum, and exposed all of the little contact fingers. Once the "guts" were out in the open on the operating table, it was much easier to clean up all of the electrical surfaces and bend the contact fingers back into proper alignment.

The trickiest part was putting it all back together ... sort of like one of those complicated Chinese 3D puzzles ... had to position everything just right.

And ... (drumroll, please) ... IT WORKS! Loco goes forward and reverse just fine! I can sleep soundly tonight!

Looking ahead ...

In retrospect, I'm kinda glad this little panic happened. It forced me to learn a bit more about e-units and actually dive into the belly of one.

And I'll likely go ahead and order a new drum from Jeff Kane. This one is running (again), but the plastic axle nipple (?) is pretty chewed up, and the drum isn't really held all that firmly with the e-unit cheeks. Jeff said he sells these things for around $4 ... no complaints about that.

Anyway ... thanks for listening, and for any/all well-wishes you may have offered to TJ's 1668 patient. All now good on the homefront!

TJ


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## imatt88 (Jan 31, 2010)

I love this site! I never heard of an e unit until I joined this site:laugh:

You guys hve been great! thanks for all the help:thumbsup:


 Cheers, Ian


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## jimhaight (Apr 28, 2011)

Read several posts re 1688, 1688E, 1668 and 1668E. I own a 1688, 1688E and 1668E. All three have E-units, which respond to transformer commands to stop, reverse, and move forward. The potmetal loco castings are similar but the motion switch of the 2-4-2 1688s is toward the cab, while that of the 2-6-2 1668E is toward the front of the loco. In one position, the loco will respond to stop/reverse/forward commands. The other position limits the loco to move in forward or reverse only, depending on the initial command. That is the normal function of the motion switch. My locos date from 1938-1942. Have never seen a plastic version nor a smoker.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I still get get confused on the numbers. MIne is an e unit forward with six drive wheels. It had no sides so I never knew the number.

So it would be a 1688E.


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## jimhaight (Apr 28, 2011)

Oh, yes, that 1689 is a Commodore Vanderbilt and does not share the 1668 or 1688 body casting. Then there's the 1689T or W; that's a common tender, the W designating whistle. The 238E seems to come with "Pennsylvania" nameplates. Don't know if it shares the shell with others. I constantly scan eBay for an affordable 238E. Currently awaiting an eBayed 1668E minus front trucks and light. Found both of those on eBay.


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## jimhaight (Apr 28, 2011)

While I'm thinking about it, my recently purchased 1668E came with nameplate only on the left side; no provision for one on the right. There was another advertised on eBay with the same odd feature. Must have been a few of these released before the error -- if it was one -- was corrected. Might be a clue as to manufacture date. Would anyone know?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Just adding to the loco identification / clarification info above ...

(T-Man ... per below, you are referring to a 1668, not 1688 ...)

1668 is a 6-drive-wheel loco ... 2-6-2 config. E-unit lever is in the front. Fancy drive rod linkage setup.

1688 is a 4-drive-wheel loco ... 2-4-2 config. There's actually two old-vintage versions of this. The first (early 1930's) used the Lionel Jr motor, and had it's e-unit slot more-or-less mid-length on the boiler shell. The later version (late 1930's) used the Lionel motor with the black plastic (?) base, which has the e-unit lever much further aft, closer to the cab. Simpler drive rods on both versions.

The 1668 and the two 1688's share very similar die-cast shells. Essentially the same casting, except for the differences in the locations of the e-unit slots, and some small rivet holes for drive rod attachments on the 1668.

That said, I've just learned that the 1668 has a closed cab (wall at front of cab), whereas SOME 1688 have a closed cab, and some others have an open-front cab. Not sure when/why the difference.

(I also saw a 1688 on ebay recently that had open windows on the front of its cab, which is not normal for any 1668 or 1688. I suspect this was a custom retrofit by someone, though I'd be curious to know if anyone has seen this before.)

My 1668 is one of those with a nameplate on one side only. The other side does NOT have an inset for a nameplate. It's odd that Lionel would have run their castings that way. I'd love to learn why someday.

The 238 looks very similar to the 1668/1688 family at first glance. That said, it's a much larger loco, with a completely different (bigger, more detail) shell.

For further reference, I had posted a thread on the differences between the two types of 1688's (along with some 1668 comparisons) here:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3726


Cheers,

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

See I never get it straight. OK a 1668E. I'm lost without that name plate.


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