# Help with Marx HO set



## finkmac (Jul 18, 2013)

I have this Marx HO set (#17523)…

Attempting to run it results in it sitting there, or sparks coming from the loco wheels…

I know I need to clean it, but how would I do that?

Some pictures (found online).


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

finkmac said:


> I have this Marx HO set (#17523)…
> 
> Attempting to run it results in it sitting there, or sparks coming from the loco wheels…
> 
> ...



The only thing I could find that it was offered in 1969 #'s 17522/23/24/25

Nice set, looks in good shape, looks complete. 
You sure you have the wires hooked up right?


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## finkmac (Jul 18, 2013)

Heh, that's not mine... Those are some pictures I found of one on an auction site, and uploaded to another hosting site in case the originals went down.

The power plug is interesting, to say the least... the cord ends in two pieces of stripped wire, which are supposed to be plugged into this straight piece of track, which has two prongs with holes.

Best picture I could get in my lighting conditions...

http://i.imgur.com/y5ov5hn.jpg

Might be the powerpak thing... I'll admit, I'm not too keen on running electric transformers from the '60s...

I _do_ have a "Troller" "AutopulseTransrail" powerpak (from the eighties, apparently) which seems to be of better quality... but I'm not sure how to use it.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Finkmac

Got a few questions and suggestions.

Does the loco have a light? Does it burn when you have
power on the track and loco is stalled? If so, that indicates to
me a motor problem. See below.

Otherwise, not moving OR sparking could have several causes:

Dirty track. Clean it with a scrubber and alcohol.

Dirty power pickup wheels. Clean the wheel treads than
run on the rails. (I'm Not familiar with
Marx HO locos and cars so not certain what they use
for power pickup.) Looking under the Loco and the Tender
at the wheels may reveal a brass or copper 'wiper' that rubs
on the back of the wheels or the axles. If so, clean the
back of these wheels and remove any lint that may have
been collected on the wipers.

Short Circuit. This would be internal in the engine. A volt/ohm meter
would be helpful to trace this. Are there any loose wires inside the
loco or from it's wheels?

No movement but light on. Check the motor brushes and 
armature for accumulated foreign matter or worn out brushes.

Bad connection from the Power Pack. You might try soldering
the wires from the power pack directly on the rail flanges if you
feel those wires poked into the track 'holes' are not making
good contact.

The multimeter would be helpful here also. What DC voltage
does power pack feed to the track?

And just maybe one of the Forum guys has one of these trains and
can give you even more help restoring it to action.

Don


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## finkmac (Jul 18, 2013)

No, the loco doesn't have a light.

It does have a wiper, which touches a front wheel, and a back wheel…

I'll try to wipe the tracks, I did read that these sets are supposed to be good at running with dirty tracks, though…


The wheels aren't "Free-spinning", I didn't see anything wrong when I opened the loco up, either.

Powerpack outputs 18v DC (7.5 watts)… And inputs 115v AC (60 Cycles)…


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

I had one of these locos. Place the wires from the pack directly to the wheels with power applied. One to the right and the other to the left. The locomotive should run at this point.

If it runs and there are no sparks then it is defiantly dirty tack. Marx used steel track and that rust. 

If the locomotive has some sparks coming only from the comm on the motor that is normal. Open frame motors do that, especially that vintage.

If the locomotive does not run then there is an issue with it. Try the other wheels on the locomotive. It is possible that the wiper is only connecting to one of the wheels. The springs that hold the brushes in may be week. The may be a loose wire between the pickups and the motor.


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## finkmac (Jul 18, 2013)

Placing the wires on the wheels (both on one side) resulted in sparks coming from where the wires made contact... smoke came from the sparks as well...


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Does sound like you have a short circuit under
the loco shell. I'd guess it is easy to come off.
Look for a loose wire or some part that may
be shorting.

That looks to be a very simple loco. You should find
only the wires coming from the wheel contacts going
directly to the brush holders, I would guess. Is that right tk?

Since it is HO I am assuming it to be DC and thus would NOT
have an E unit which Marx AC locos used.

Don


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

It is possible that someone reversed some wheel sets creating a direct short.

Have you taken the shell apart and see if the motor can be turned by hand? 

A locked up motor will act as a direct short, and you can burn the windings if you are not careful.

If the motor turns by hand, touch the wires to each brush and see if the motor spins.

If it does, then it is time to find that short.


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

finkmac said:


> Placing the wires on the wheels (both on one side) resulted in sparks coming from where the wires made contact... smoke came from the sparks as well...


I see an issue. DO NOT place the wires both to the same side. One wire needs to go to each side or you will create a short and sparks and smoke will occur. Both wheels on one side are - and the other side are +. Try it with the wires one on each side.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I thought maybe he worded it wrong. 
That would make a few sparks and generate some smoke too.


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## finkmac (Jul 18, 2013)

Hm, that would make sense... I'll try that later.


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## finkmac (Jul 18, 2013)

Tried it with the wires on opposite sides and… nothing…

No signs of life.


Edit:

Opened the engine up, looked around to see how the electricity got to the motor…

Motor had two contacts, I touched the wires to each side, and the motor ran…

From what I can tell, the "wiper" thing ( on one side... touching both wheels… kind of like this: O/\O) has one wire leading to the side of the metal "base"… which goes to the motor. The other motor contact doesn't seem to draw power from anywhere…

Some sort of schematic would come in handy here.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Now you're cooking.

The Motor is good. It has 2 contacts. 

You need to have a wire from one motor contact that connects to a wiper
on (example) the Left side wheels. You say you did not see this? 

You also need to have a wire from the other motor contact that connects
to the frame if the one wiper (on the right side) you found is connected to the frame.
(or, if not, from motor contact direct to the right side wiper).

Any other wires would be for lights.

Does the wiper you saw rub on the back of the wheels, the wheel
tread or the axle?

Are you sure there is not a similar one on wheels of the other side?

It takes both L & R wheels to pick up power.

Don


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## tkruger (Jan 18, 2009)

Often these motors only have one wire. The wire goes to the pickup (wiper) on one of the rails. The screw that holds the motor in is the other. These open frame motors are grounded through their frame. With the loco have a metal frame and the wheels being on metal axles there is no need for the second axle.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Marx knew hot to git er done with as few parts
as possible.

TJ

Did this loco have geared wheels on one
side as Marx did with their AC locos?

Don


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