# Does Rebuilding Locomotives Beat Buying New?



## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

I had no idea the EPA had it's nose in the business of rebuilding locomotives.









Does Rebuilding Locomotives Beat Buying New? - Railway Age


Ever check out the list prices of brand-new main line diesel-electric locomotives? They are expensive, about $3 million each. Are you mesmerized by the horsepower quoted? Nah! You want tractive effort. Hauling heavy, long freight trains is the North American business model. You need to purchase...




www.railwayage.com


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The EPA has its nose in anything that expels pollutants, so I don’t know why locomotives, new or re-built, would be exempt from that.....


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Around the time that new locos were required to meet tier 4, NS had a major rebuilding program and stopped buying new locomotives. As I recall, EMD was not able to meet the requirements at first and GE could only do so by using urea aftertreatment for the exhaust.


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

Old_Hobo said:


> The EPA has its nose in anything that expels pollutants, so I don’t know why locomotives, new or re-built, would be exempt from that.....


EPA, another alphabet agency that needs to go away


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Lehigh74 said:


> Around the time that new locos were required to meet tier 4, NS had a major rebuilding program and stopped buying new locomotives. As I recall, EMD was not able to meet the requirements at first and GE could only do so by using urea aftertreatment for the exhaust.


Typical government requirements...set the bar too high for current technology. 

I was of the impression that many rebuilds were going to gen-sets. What do I know?


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Trackjockey05 said:


> EPA, another alphabet agency that needs to go away


Careful.....you live in the USA..... 🤣


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

First Amendment still applies....for now


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

Fire21 said:


> Typical government requirements...set the bar too high for current technology.
> 
> I was of the impression that many rebuilds were going to gen-sets. What do I know?


A lot did, but it seems like the Gensets have fallen to the wayside, my employer had them all over Chicago, quite a few in Proviso yard, last time I was there there were at least 20 of them deadlined and there were rebuilt SD40’s switching


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Trackjockey05 said:


> A lot did, but it seems like the Gensets have fallen to the wayside, my employer had them all over Chicago, quite a few in Proviso yard, last time I was there there were at least 20 of them deadlined and there were rebuilt SD40’s switching


Hmmm, wonder what the problem with them was?


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

Fire21 said:


> Hmmm, wonder what the problem with them was?


Not sure, there was nothing wrong with the ones I saw stored, they look like they could be put right back in service


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Looks aren’t everything......this one looks like it should run great, except it no longer does......😄


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Trackjockey05 said:


> A lot did, but it seems like the Gensets have fallen to the wayside, my employer had them all over Chicago, quite a few in Proviso yard, last time I was there there were at least 20 of them deadlined and there were rebuilt SD40’s switching


From what I heard, the Gensets were ending up costing more for maintenance than they were saving in fuel, so they weren't economically feasible.

*Gensets are already dead* 

*UP taps Progress Rail for switcher repowers*


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Ridiculous "emissions regulations" for locomotives almost drove EMD out of business a few years ago. There was no way the 710 series engine could comply with the regulations, so they had to introduce a completely new 4-cycle diesel and "start over".

It's been almost 30 years since I ran my last freight engine, but I reckon the new "high-tech" computerized engines are as "maintenance-intensive" as the 70's-80's engines were. Hence, keeping engines longer (and rebuilding them), or buying "remanufactured" versions of older units, may be more cost-effective.

The "non-computerized" engines ran better, too. This is from "the engineer's perspective" of having an engine or consist that was "responsive to the touch".

The newer ones have the computers "sitting between the throttle and the wheels". Try to advance the throttle, and the engine will accelerate "at its own pace" because the computers take over to keep fuel consumption at (what the computers believe to be) the "optimum".

Compared to the EMD F-40's on Amtrak, the P40's and P42's I ran couldn't "get out of their own way". Some of this was because of "the computer", and some was "GE".

I guess it's just me, looking back.
But the old ones were better.
The younger guys working today -- they wouldn't recognize "the difference"...


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

They could not if they never experienced the old.


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## Trackjockey05 (Jun 30, 2020)

J.Albert1949 said:


> Ridiculous "emissions regulations" for locomotives almost drove EMD out of business a few years ago. There was no way the 710 series engine could comply with the regulations, so they had to introduce a completely new 4-cycle diesel and "start over".
> 
> It's been almost 30 years since I ran my last freight engine, but I reckon the new "high-tech" computerized engines are as "maintenance-intensive" as the 70's-80's engines were. Hence, keeping engines longer (and rebuilding them), or buying "remanufactured" versions of older units, may be more cost-effective.
> 
> ...


Evety day at work I listen to locomotive maintenance walking crews through computer issues, combined with PTC its a real nightmare, more often than not the crew is given authority to cut out PTC and override the computer, theres just too much technology sometimes


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