# Proposed new layout, question about DCC and wiring...



## Sehender1 (Jan 21, 2015)

Hi. 
I'm new/old to the hobby, having recently gotten back into it. Was a child model railroader. 

Am mulling a new layout that would be my first L-shape. This would be on a 4x8 with a 4x4 stuck onto the bottom to make the L. 










Wondering what the pros think about it. 
I'm running with Bachmann EZ track; using their Dynamis wireless system right now to manage 5 locos. 

One question about this layout: Would it require any special wiring? Special track? I'm asking because of the double-backs created by the crossing in the middle of the long side of the L. 

Seems to me that this shouldn't be a big deal, since DCC locos can run in opposing directions anyway. But just wondering... 

Many thanks, in advance, for help or answers..


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

looks like you have two reverse loops there in that center crossing, don't know if you could get away with just one auto reverse controller, but i'm guessing two ...get ones that match your dcc system, or the dcc specialties have units that have double a/r controllers..on my layout i have only one reversing section, and i use the mrc one, it matches my dcc system, mrc prodigy express, and was the cheapest one at the time on ebay...
should be great fun


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## Sehender1 (Jan 21, 2015)

Yah - noticing now the reverse loop issue. Have no idea how to handle that, frankly. Sooooo.. Tweaked the layout a little. Less interesting, to be sure.. but still could be a ton of fun... 










I need to put in blocks to handle the reverse loops, right? That's a little beyond my skill level at this point, but maybe something to shoot for..


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## johnfl68 (Feb 1, 2015)

I haven't had to think about something like this in a while, but at fist glance, the "X" in the middle would cross your "A" and "B" rails, so if I am remembering correctly, that section would need to be on a Auto Reverser. Actually 2 separate auto reversers, one for each arm of the X, as there is the potential for 2 trains to be in the X at the same time with 5 locos. Insulated at each of the 4 turnouts going into the "X". I'm not sure about the frogs on EZ track so, there might be some other considerations at the diamond crossing in the center of the "X" as well.

Also turnouts would need to be DCC ready, or modified so, I would think EZ track has compatible versions.

If I am mistaken, I'm sure others will chime in.

John


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The second layout does eliminate the reverse loops.

But, I say keep at least one. It makes the layout more
fun. The wiring for a reverse loop in DCC is very simply.
You merely use plastic insulated joiners to isolate the
track that creates the 'loop'. Then an automatic device
called a reverse loop controller feeds power to that.
It, in turn takes power from the main track. You do
nothing else. The locos are sensed and polarity is
matched automatically.

The ldentification of the 'loop' depends on the layout.

What you have shown would be very good for continuous
running but I would want more spur tracks and possibly
a small yard. Then when you get tired or watching, and
want to run them you'll want switching. 

Don


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## Sehender1 (Jan 21, 2015)

So I like the idea of keeping both loops; in fact, the way things are laid out, that would really be the only practical option - that or eliminating them altogether. 

I've been reading about the reverse loop issue, and am trying to figure out how you'd set it up on the initial layout. A few questions: 

1) Where would you have the loops begin, and end? The layout ties lots of turnouts, etc., into both sides of the loop. I'm not quite clear where I'd want to place the "gaps" that define each loop. 

2) How would these loops effect traffic? Trains coming into the loop from one side would be going one way, and they'd go the opposite way from the other side, according to the layout. Would this work properly? (I hope I'm explaining that clearly enough.) 

3) With 5 locos, I often have trains traveling different directions on the same little part of the layout. How would the reverse loops effect that? Could two trains operate in opposite directions, coming into the loop at the same time, from different ends? 

Many thanks for any help with this. Excited to maybe try to stretch a bit here. One good thing: Bachmann actually makes the "gapped" rail pieces, all ready to be hooked into the track and into the auto reverser... so that part will be easy. It's just a matter of figuring out where they might go. 

Thanks!!!!!


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## Sehender1 (Jan 21, 2015)

So I've been able to answer most of my own questions with a little research. 

Essentially, what I need to do is confine the reverse loop (or loops; keep reading) to the X, so that the locos reverse polarity by the time the get back onto the main loops. 

I get that, and it seems like it would be pretty easy. 

The only remaining questions are these: Do I need 2 reverse loops - one for each leg of the X - or just one? 

If the X is insulated, I'm guessing the answer would be yes, I need 2. And I have to assume the X would be insulated, otherwise IT would cause a permanent short. 

Am I right here? 

So I'd create two insulated loops that were just the legs of the X. And I'd want to stop them right before the turnouts that connect back into the main loops. 

Someone holler if I'm on the wrong track.. (ha... ha...)


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

sounds right, the x or crossover track piece has the two tracks isolated from each other .. so if you use plastic joiners right off the turnouts and insulate both legs of the big x in the middle, all should be good...you might get away with one auto reverse for both legs, normally you would not have two seperate locos going into the x crossing anyways, collision in he middle.. .. if it causes problems you may have to go to either two or a double A/R controller...


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## Sehender1 (Jan 21, 2015)

Ok. That makes sense. 

One add'l question... 

Would I maybe need two reversers because of the power needs? Or because, indeed, they are tracks separated by the insulation at the X? Just trying to understand more 

And I could imagine some odd times when there MIGHT be two trains going through the middle together. Obviously, one would have the right of way and the other would stop, but they both might BE there at the same time. 

Also: I'm thinking I'd need the power booster for the Dynamis in order to make this work - is that right also?


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Let me ask a couple questions.....

1) What do you want this layout to do? Just run trains around in circles, or do you want to run a small railroad? (destinations, drop-offs/pick-ups, etc.)

2) What size space do you have to work with? A 4x8 actually takes up about 8x12 in area once you figure in a minimum 24" on each size of the "table" to allow access.

3) What size engines/cars do you want to run? Can't help but notice your tracks fit inside the 48" table meaning you have a minimum radius of maybe 22"? FYI...The bigger min radius you can get, the more reliable your railroad will be (fewer derailments, etc.) Also, the bigger rolling stock (6 axle engines and 80ft+ cars) will run and look MUCH nicer on larger curves.

I'm a fan of the "around the walls" type of layout. In the same 8x12 space as a standard 4x8, you can have 2ft wide shelves all the way around and a nice big 48" opening in the middle......OR you can have a 3-sided layout that you can just walk into with the loops at the opposite ends of the layout. If you go double main-line through the middle of the layout, you can turn your engines around without those pesky reverse-loops requiring an auto-reverser.

Just some thoughts.......


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Sehender1 said:


> Ok. That makes sense.
> 
> One add'l question...
> 
> ...


If you go with the X crossing as you had in your first layout
you would need to Isolate both tracks forming the X. The
reason is that you could have a train running from top left
to bottom right and a 2nd train running from Bottom left
to top right. These two trains spanning a track joint
with insulated joiners at the same time with one controller
would cause a short circuit. So, yes, you would need two 
reverse controllers.

You would, however, need to be actually running the
trains else there would be some mighty interesting
collisions at the crossing. 

The insulated joiners would be placed between all four
turnouts and the tracks leading to the crossing.

One reverse controller would power Lower left to
upper right track and the other would power the
upper left to lower right track.

The Dynamis comes with a 2.5 amp power source which would
be plenty for your entire layout. The reverse controllers would
not require that you provide additional power.

I'd recommend that you go with just one reverse loop and
avoid the need for two controllers. I'm with SSlaure, I like
the around the walls single track layout (with several passing
sidings) and you have a good space to do that and I would
try for wider radius curves so you are not limited to smaller
locos and cars.

Don


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## Sehender1 (Jan 21, 2015)

Good questions, sstlaure.. 

I'll take them in order. 

1) I like to be able to do both. I'm shooting for a layout that has a couple of loops as well as some destinations/sidings/passing sidings, etc. On this particular layout, I'd probably place two passenger stations (one near town; the other near a more industrial area) and have a lumber yard and one other industry someplace. That's what the sidings are for.. 
I like to take control of individual trains, moving them from place to place, while the others run "background." So some trains are stopped on sidings while others roll by. I do this now on a rectangular layout that's roughly 5x10. 

2)I'm trying to make this work along the wall in a room that's 18 x about 12. There will be plenty of room to operate and have access. The room is empty right now, but needs to accommodate some other things when it's done. 

3) Right now, I run everything on 18" curves on the 5x10 rectangular layout. I run a variety of locomotives, from a B&O passenger-style FA2 to a few SD9's and a GP7. Everything runs just fine. I am a sucker for 40' box cars; they also fit with the mid-50s era I also like, and that will be the theme of all the scenery. Also have a logging train (for the lumber yard, mill area) that works just fine. Passenger cars overhang the rails a bit on 18" curves, but don't overhang the roadway that's attached..

On this proposed corner layout, I've got one curve, at far left, that's a 22" radius. All the others are 18".


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## RT_Coker (Dec 6, 2012)

Sehender1 said:


> I'm thinking I'd need the power booster for the Dynamis in order to make this work - is that right also?


I have a Dynamis with the 5-Amp-booster and the auto-reverser, all form the same manufacturer! In my opinion the auto-reverser and the booster are NOT compatible! In at least some setups, they will chatter (that is their power switching circuits will complete with each other). If you look carefully at the manuals they will say (or did say) that these units “can be used with each other”. And the auto-reverser is (or was) called a 5-amp-unit even though the cables are (or were) not suitable for caring 5-amps. In other words the DCC standards/recommendations do not really cover quit a few things, one of them being auto-reversers. So buy your auto-reverser from someone that will guaranty that it will work with your other DCC hardware.

Also the current use of the booster with Dynamis will only increase your total power to 5-amps. The power that the Dynamis could provide the layout will basically be useless.
Bob


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