# Semi newbie questions!?!?!?!



## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

I want to go with Digitrax. Both local clubs use it, so I'm not looking to recreate the world.

I want to set up a test DCC setup at my house since I don't have room for layout. Hooking to a computer and using JMRC seems like it would make my life easier in the long run as well.

It is available at the club, but getting there and having a 6 yr old at your side makes for a rough learning curve. I also cannot test anything dcc function related at the house which I want to change.

So I am looking for what is my best option price wise using Digitrax equipment of making myself a DCC setup with radio throttle and being able to hook it to a PC.

Sorry I'm on turnaround at work and been working straight thru days to nights, so looking at this stiff has made my head explode......


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Starter set, SCFXD + computer interface, PR3XTRA + power supply, PS514 . Figure about $600 from an internet supplier.
Very wise decision on your part to opt for a brand that you can get local one on one help to learn how to use these.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

JerryH said:


> Starter set, SCFXD + computer interface, PR3XTRA + power supply, PS514 . Figure about $600 from an internet supplier.


Can u put that in English?

Off to work.....................


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

Sounds like an awful lot of money. Bear in mind that the Digitrax manuals are not the easiest to get to grips with. CVs are programmed in hexadecimal values unlike most other systems.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

The radio and PC interface run up the cost. SCFXD Super Chief Xtra 5 Amp Duplex Radio Equipped; PS514 70W AC Power Supply; PR3XTRA SoundFX USB Decoder Programmer. Digitrax can program CV's in base 10 numbers so there is no need to understand hex. He is going to use JMRI so CVs don't need any understanding as they are described in english.


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

Old one eye thinks NCE is the only thing to use. He doesn't know Digitrax very well as it is beyond his technical understanding.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I assume the radio throttle is for use at the club, you certainly don't need it for a test track. If your test track is just used for programming decoders, all you need is a PR3xtra. It connects to a computer via USB and and you can use DecoderPro to change the CV's. If you want to actually run something on a test track then you need a command station of some sort. You could try to find a used DB150 and I think it might work just using the power supply that comes with the PR3. The PR3 in computer interface mode does not use the PS that comes with it. If you don't need the throttle then just use the DecoderPro on screen throttle or a phone or tablet as a wireless throttle. If you really want to be cheap and are willing to play around with an Arduino you can avoid the DB150 expense as there are instruction on how to turn a Arduino into a limited command station. Not sure what throttle you need for the club, but I bought a used DT400 on ebay and sent it to Digitax and $60 later I had a DT402D throttle.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

JerryH said:


> Old one eye thinks NCE is the only thing to use. He doesn't know Digitrax very well as it is beyond his technical understanding.


So it's clever for a manufacturer to make something that's hard to understand is it? Systems should be easy to operate surely. No, I don't have a great technical understanding of how a system works as you so cleverly suggested, nor do most people. This is from a review by DCC Concepts who sell all the major systems:

"I’m unsure in some ways about the DT402 handset: It is very
clever feature wise, about the same as an NCE ProCab, but all its
buttons are the same size and shape and that makes it look a bit like
an electronic porcupine... very confusing because there’s no visual
aid in the shape and no helpful ergonomics in the design...a real
shame! So: DT402 handset and variants, while technically good, are quite hard to understand for most – so even after many operating sessions owners are still confused! I know because I help DT402 users more often than any others!"

Maybe you'd also benefit from a lesson in reducing techno babble as the OP found difficulty in understanding you.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

While I use NCE, I second the opinion that it is a good idea for the OP to go with Digitrax as there is local help and support available to him for that system.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The problem with JerryH's position is that it assumes we are the same, and we're not.

Some of us like technical complexity. Some of us don't want to deal with it. I deal with it all day at work (so it's clearly WITHIN my intellectual capacity), but that means I don't want it anywhere near my hobby.

A person's reaction to the "human engineering" factors on a given DCC system is a highly individual experience, and often the best reason to purchase a system ISN'T it's capabilities, but your reaction to the interface.

That said, I agree that the complexity isn't an issue when you're buying it to match what the local club uses.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

JerryH said:


> Old one eye thinks NCE is the only thing to use. He doesn't know Digitrax very well as it is beyond his technical understanding.


I'm hoping that this is a badly phrased attempt to be funny, because otherwise it's just plain wrong.

As a happy MRC user, I admit to a level of frustration that so many people on this forum seem to favor NCE above other systems, but I wouldn't dream of getting insulting about it.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Maybe I phrased it badly.

I want to have a home setup to test/setup engines and maybe eventually power something small I can build with the boy if I figure out a space to.

Sticking with Digitrax because as I mentioned both local clubs do use Digitrax. 

I do want to use decoder pro, so connecting to a computer is a must at that point.

While I would like wireless throttle at home, I can use my phone for the same purpose.

I would like my own wireless throttle for the club and for the programming side of things when not at home bases, but I guess wouldn't matter at the actual house level.

Is that a little better clarification?

Off to work again shortly....


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

Based on your last post, I would go with a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra, then add a PR3 module. The Zephyr, will allow you to run a test track, or a small home layout. The PR3, will be the interface, between your PC/Mac, running JMRI, and the Digitrax system. This would allow for setup/testing of decoders that you would install in locomotives at home. Then either you could you use a phone app, along with the JMRI, for wireless control, or purchase a DT402 radio throttle, that you could use tethered at home, or as a wireless unit at the club. Or, you could add a UR92 to your home Zephyr, and use the radio DT402 there as well. To recap, all you need to start at home, is the Zephyr, and the PR3, all the rest can be added over time. As a side note, after having seen/used the ZIMO, nothing else really compares, but with out a local dealer, that is a deal breaker for me. As far as NCE/Digitrax, goes, after looking at the two systems, when it was all said and done, there were too many things about the NCE that I didn't like, so went with the Digitrax. The Digitrax allows me to run trains the way I want to, and in the end that is all that matters. I mean we can talk about quaint porcupines all day long, but when I pickup my DT402, I don't even have to look at the throttle, and I know which button I'm pushing.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Digitrax Zephyr Xtra , the only difference is the power capability correct? 3 amp versus 2 amp or 2.5 I believe?

Also found the PR3 module will let me reprogram the Soundbug setups as well, which I have one of already and was debating some more, but had no way to program them easily.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

3.8TransAM said:


> Digitrax Zephyr Xtra , the only difference is the power capability correct? 3 amp versus 2 amp or 2.5 I believe? .


Yes, I believe that is the difference. I was going off of what Digitrax currently shows on their website, which is why I suggested the Zephyr Xtra.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

1 Digitrax Zephyr ordered

1 PR3 Xtra ordered

1 DH165LO decoder ordered(scored a deal on another GP30!!!)

So by this time next week I will be an expert

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to try and get it set up with JMRI and get my Soundbug in a P2K GP30 programmed for a 567D with turbo for my first project if I can get it set up and running.


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## ncrc5315 (Jan 25, 2014)

There are some really good YouTube video's, that show how to setup JMRI.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

First stage completed.

Zephyr connected to tracks powered on and already programmed loco is running. Walked my 6 yr old thru it while we setup and let him do it 

So now to actually make myself a dedicated 2 track 1*4 to make a programming and running track.

JMRI is downloaded on the pc, so working on getting it setup with the pr3xtra will be by next "phase".

Planning on using the pc/pr3/zephyr style setup for everything.

Are issues with the PR3 when folks use it as a standalone programmer? Or am I missing something?


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

3.8TransAM said:


> So now to actually make myself a dedicated 2 track 1*4 to make a programming and running track.


I would make that 1x4 switchable from DCC to DC via a DPDT (double pole double throw) center off switch. In other words, thrown one way the track is DCC powered. Thrown the other way, it is DC powered. Thrown to the center, as it should be when not in use, the track is unpowered.
The reason is so that you can test run any locomotive, DCC or DC. While you may not think so now, eventually you will want a particular locomotive that does not come set up for DCC and you will have to convert it, which is usually not that hard. Yes, you will, trust me on this.
With DC you can correct any issues with power pickup or running in general before you convert it. If it doesn't run well in DC, it will run even worse in DCC.
This is how I set mine up:


Those DPDT switches can be found at a hardware store for a few bucks. There are three sets of terminals on the back. The center set is for power out to the track. In my pic above, the LEFT HAND set is for DC and the RIGHT HAND set is for DCC. When the switch is thrown one way or the other the internal contacts move in the opposite direction of the handle of the switch. When it is thrown to the right, the contacts slide to the left, and vicey versey. In the center position, the track is unpowered. It didn't cost much, and it does increase the versatility of the track.


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## Genetk44 (Feb 26, 2016)

JerryH said:


> Old one eye thinks NCE is the only thing to use. He doesn't know Digitrax very well as it is beyond his technical understanding.


A totally unnecessary and uncalled for comment.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Question.

I am waiting on the loconet cable to hook the pr3 to the zephyr.

Now how are the supposed issues with the pr3 occurring? Is it using the pr3 stand alone, or using it hooked from the pc to the zephyr?

Just trying to figure out how to try stuff once I get the cables in since I have not touched the pr3 yet. I have merely test run an already programmed locomotive to test out the zephyr.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Programmed a loco address and got it to work using zephyr only.

Going to try and pick up a toggle switch and some Bachman snap track to make a dedicated program/test track.

Going to also try the PR3 and JMRI with the Zephyr later.

Brain is not functioning during the day when I'm off from all the nights at work...... Zero patience.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Using a stand-alone track, the PR3 (with the power supply plugged in) and JMRI decoder pro is the way to program decoders. It keeps a nice list of all your locos and what there current programmed condition is. You can them progress to having a JMRI throttle customized for each loco. One of the easier programs to use!


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Well instructions for all of this are pretty much for ****.........

But to paraphrase Ludicrus " I came, I saw, I kicked Digitrax dead in the jaw"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PC > PR3Xtra > Zephyr is a go!

After fiddling around with it quite cluelessly and with not very clear instructions from Digitrax or JMRI end it works.

Made a 48inch board a 45inch long test track with some of the Bachmann snap track. Got a Double Pole Double Throw switch to set it up for easy Run/Off/Program on one track.

So far I have only used it to change the address in a Digitrax P2K style decoder. Computer throttle is also working using JMRI. Then for some fun and to whup PC train control in its entirety I set it up to use my phone for wireless throttle. Now I can roar over the 45 inch mainline wirelessly.

Not sure why I picked up a DT400R now

I'm going to make some semi-decent instructions or maybe even try making a video to explain some of this a hell of a lot more clearer then the mud digitrax and most online videos do. Who knows when however, still living at work.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Well it all sounds good. Yes the JMRI throttles are nice in that you can make them with features specific to the loc! The DT402 throttle is not very user friendly, probably because of all the information they attempt to pack on the little LCD screen. Still its what I use because its on with the system and I don't need to hassle the computer connection. You have the Zephyr, it has a "real" throttle lever on it - a big plus!


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Update yeah me!

I can now tell you why when the new stuff Bachman is using gets rolling the DCC market will implode and I think I will be happy for it.......

That aside, I cannot program anything non Digitrax using the pc>pr3>Zephyr setup.

I did end up with the Soundtraxx booster but have not had time to get it set up. Remains to be worked out.

I am going to set the PR3 up to the track and try some things out that way when I have time(finally off of 12 out of 14 since mid March).

I did however, get all GP30s set up. All have the DH165LO in them and the lead engine has the Soundbug.

Programmed them using the D402R(manual sucks)plugged into the Zephyr and reading the manual(that sucks again), so after some stumbling and fumbling I got them all going.

Then, for an encore I successfully managed to MU the combo together and make it work. Again manuals could be far better than they are............ Wasn't to bad after I figured out all the gaps in the manual.

Now to do it again tomorrow, while walking the 6 yr old thru is and making myself cheat sheets for everything that I successfully accomplish.


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## Cycleops (Dec 6, 2014)

I understand the manual is notorious for its mix of techno speak and marketing babble. Haven't tried Digitrax myself, only the decoders, nor will I.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Is there any lag when using a phone to control your trains?


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Cycleops said:


> I understand the manual is notorious for its mix of techno speak and marketing babble. Haven't tried Digitrax myself, only the decoders, nor will I.


They are all pretty sad. Making it all worse is the information on the internet is all over the place as far as what you need and how to hook it up.....



redman88 said:


> Is there any lag when using a phone to control your trains?


I would say slight, but considering most throttles have some lag if you really pay attention its not bad.

Have not ran it on JMRI since I got my surprise Win10 update.... So I will have to see if it still works or I have to go thru a whole 'nother process to set up PR3/JMRI combo for Win10.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Another question. Can multiple people use their phones to run trains on the same layout using JMRI?


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

To use the PR3 to program decoders, you need to use it in a stand-alone mode, You used the same USB interface to the PR3 but then you use the "program track" outputs of the PR3 to the programming track along with plugging in the power supply to the PR3. Make sure you have the Zephyr track outputs disconnected from the programming track! JMRI decoder pro will allow you to select stand-alone program mode as opposed to the PC interface mode you're using to operate the railroad and wireless throttles. Decoder Pro keeps a nice list of locs and what the cv's are all programmed to.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Lemonhawk said:


> To use the PR3 to program decoders, you need to use it in a stand-alone mode, You used the same USB interface to the PR3 but then you use the "program track" outputs of the PR3 to the programming track along with plugging in the power supply to the PR3. Make sure you have the Zephyr track outputs disconnected from the programming track! JMRI decoder pro will allow you to select stand-alone program mode as opposed to the PC interface mode you're using to operate the railroad and wireless throttles. Decoder Pro keeps a nice list of locs and what the cv's are all programmed to.


That is in the cards shortly I'm hoping. The boy and I have been working only with the D402R plugged into the Zephyr and doing everything that way to learn it.

Then learn to steal it and use the Zephyr.

Then, providing WIN10 update didn't kill JMRI for me I am going back to that route one step at a time.

Once I make it work, I make a cheat sheet now on a note pad. Repeat until bulletproof and get ALL the steps in order where they need to be.

Thanks, because you are one of the few who makes it very plain jane on what needs to be done to get things working and I do appreciate it.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm running JMRI on win 10 (64 bit) so I would not fear win 10 problems with JMRI.


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## 3.8TransAM (Jan 13, 2016)

Lemonhawk said:


> I'm running JMRI on win 10 (64 bit) so I would not fear win 10 problems with JMRI.


I don't fear it but it took a while to set up on 8.1, but I got it working.

Have not touched it since Win10 update. Just finished working 12 on 2 off since march.... No time to play.

So just doing one thing at a time and figuring it out and writing notes.


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