# First layout - need constructive feedback



## pilot2fly (Nov 14, 2016)

Hi guys,

I'm building a 4x8 layout since it's all I have space for. I want to do a sort of 80's style/modern day diesel freight layout. I am using a couple of CSX SD40-2's to haul freight and I wanted some feedback on my initial design (rough draft).

I have a design here with a small yard that can do things like coal and warehouses/industry for box cars. I also have a siding for fuel and water for the loco's, and a siding where full cars are ready to be picked up. I want some more ideas on how to make it more realistic. I want to do "realistic operations" where the loco's move slowly and in a realistic way.

Any and all feedback would be appreciated. Thanks guys!


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

One big way to make a 4x8 more realistic is to have a scenic divider in the middle; a backdrop of some sort. This will make it less obvious that the train is running around in an oval when its on the mainline. 

You could try and have a scenic divider at a ~45 degree angle alongside your industry tracks. I would also add a passing siding starting from the turnout to your industry tracks, so you can have more than one train pass each other. After you add the scenic divider, you can add some more industries to the area around the locomotive housing. Perhaps give your products from the industrial area somewhere to go, like a freight transfer terminal or something like this.

You can go a long way towards making a 4x8 more believable. You'll just have to be careful with the minimum radius of the tracks since you're using SD40-2s.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Do you mind letting us know what is your available space?There are numerous ideas on this forum that can help you design a much more interesting trackplan than a 4 X 8,wich notoriously make poor use of space.May be that a little more work would give you a more satisfying design,but then may be you don't have a choice.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

You might move the turnout to the locomotive housing
to the left, then add another spur track or two that
could be the loco service area which would free the
yard track for another purpose.

It's always important to have a passing siding on
a switching layout. There are many times that a loco
must get on the 'other' side of a car. You might see
where you could add that to your layout.

Have you gone through the Layout Design Forum?
The two sticky threads have some very interesting
layout ideas. While you may not want to build any
certain layout you can find small sections that may
work on your tracks.

Don


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Take your circular saw and cut that piece of plywood down the center and form the two pieces into an L.

Make a point to point layout, which will give you much more operational possibilities than you can ever hope to achieve on a small rectangle. For an example, see the "collection of track plans" thread and you'll see what i mean.


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## pilot2fly (Nov 14, 2016)

So I took some of you guys' advice. I unfortunately can't do a L layout because of space. I am confined to 4x8 for now.

I added some passing sidings and moved the water and fuel to the loco housing area.


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## robz (Feb 8, 2017)

First, I like your 2nd layout, looks good.
Second, I only started a few months ago so please take with a grain of salt. I would look closely at the area circled. Is there enough room to maneuver the SD40 and still be able to operate the turnout? I have to allow at least 7" on my 4x8 layout in these areas for the switcher locomotive. I use an S-2 switcher that is 6.5" long.
Also are all sides of the layout accessible or does it lay against a wall or 2 walls? How will the turnouts be operated, manual or with a machine?


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## pilot2fly (Nov 14, 2016)

These are manual switches (EZ Track nickel silver). I was worried about the space too. I might try to add in an extra inch or two and that should give me enough room. The entire layout will be accessible from all sides.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

I see two flaws in this design...sorry...adding a few inches passed the turnouts will indeed give more room for larger locos but will at the same time shorten the storage track.And to be useable,this "runaround" design means that one of the tracks leading to it has to remain clear at all times,thus reducing your storage yard by half.Worthed the effort?Your decision...


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## pilot2fly (Nov 14, 2016)

Is there a way to make the yard more efficient? I'm welcome to ideas!


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Tho you don't have a complex yard you might
find it fun (and efficient) to use the diode matrix
turnout control system for your yard. You would have ONE button
in each track on your panel. Push it and all turnouts
in the route to the main are set. Very simple to
wire and not expensive. Requires twin coil turnout
motors.

Don


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

I would recommend eliminating the passing sidings in the yard and using that space for more yard ladders. Simply provide an engine escape on the middle two yard tracks so a train that runs in engine-first can gets it engine out without having to reverse the train onto the mainline. I think it would be better to place a passing siding on the mainline; as in a siding that follows the main closely but provides a short length of double track so two trains can pass each other.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

pilot2fly said:


> So I took some of you guys' advice. I unfortunately can't do a L layout because of space. I am confined to 4x8 for now.


I don't want to belabor this, but if you have room for a 4x8 sheet with 2' aisles all around, then you have tied up an area of 8x12, or 96 square feet. The L, which requires access on only one side, fits in the same footprint, or even smaller (8×10, allowing for the same 2' access along one side), potentially 80 square feet. Sketch it and see.

If you want a 4x8 layout, than that's fine, but don't settle just because you think that's all the space you have.


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## Dreadnought (Apr 19, 2016)

Would you be able to elaborate on why you only have room for a 4x8? I think we're all making assumptions about your space which may prove untrue.


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## Brakeman Jake (Mar 8, 2009)

Interesting layout designs can be created in a 8' X 10' space,much more so in 8' X 12'.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Better Plan!*



pilot2fly said:


> So I took some of you guys' advice. I unfortunately can't do a L layout because of space. I am confined to 4x8 for now.
> 
> I added some passing sidings and moved the water and fuel to the loco housing area.


pilot2fly;

Your second plan is much better than the first one. (They usually are which is why we redesign them!) I agree with Dreadnought's suggestion of a diagonal divider. It can be a range of hills, a double-sided backdrop, or tall buildings. Anything that prevents seeing both sides of the oval at once. The Yard at the lower left, doesn't need the two run around tracks with turnouts at both ends. They would be better as straight yard tracks. The yard "Ladder"(the string of turnouts at the right end of your yard) contains some reverse curves. The yard will be easier to back trains into if you remove the reverse curves. This can be done with a straight ladder, made up of turnouts that are all right hand ones with all the straight track routes connected in a straight line. With this configuration, a backing train only has to travel over one curve to get to any yard track. All the rest of its backing maneuver is through straight track. This is much less likely to cause derailments than your present ladder arrangement, with its reverse curves. 
I don't know whether you are heavily invested in Bachman EZ-track turnouts, or not. They have a very poor reputation for quality and reliability. If you can, you would be better off in the long run, to switch to Peco turnouts. They are very well made, and seldom, if ever, cause derailments. They don't have the rigid plastic roadbed piece under them like EZ-track, but you could substitute cork, foam, or wood, roadbed to match the height of your EZ-track. 

Back to runaround tracks. You need two of them, but not in the yard, where they are now. One on each side of the divided 4x8 would let two trains pass each other. These would be the logical locations for two towns. Each would have a station, on the runaround track, or passing siding. One would have a yard and the other engine facilities, or the engine area could be converted to industrial switching spurs for that town. It might make more sense to group a minimal engine service area, and the yard, on the same side of the layout. They would normally be close to each other in real life.

All of my preceding remarks should be considered advice, and nothing more. It's your railroad, and only you should determine how it is built. If, by some weird chance, you actually want more advice from me; (and I know that's not likely!:laugh You can read my earlier post, "Some help for new modelers." It's in the "General Model Train Discussion" section here on the forum.

Good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Ko Improbable (Mar 15, 2017)

*My $0.02*

With your second track plan, all of your spurs are facing or trailing, depending on which direction you were planning to run your trains. If you treat them all as one or the other, however, I don't see any practical need for a run-around track; your cars are always on the correct end of the locomotive, anyway.

If possible, you might consider using one of those turnouts to give you a straight alternate line going off the table edge to be used as an "interchange" or an industry outside of the view that your layout is providing. This provides justification for cars coming and going from your little view that are not provided by your on-table industries.

Also, and, this may just be an error on my part, but it looks like the centerward spur on your locomotive servicing area might be closer to the main loop than optimal. Definitely make sure cars can move past each other.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Here is the 4x8 I have built.


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