# My HO Layout (or lack thereof)



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

Hello all, I'm a 15 year old interested in model railways (gasp!). I've had, in my basement, a fair amount of code 100 HO tracks - nothing amazing, but a start. I'm spending this week which I have off school for break cleaning out a room in our basement (who knew that over ten years one could gather so many old computer parts?)

Anywho, the space available is essentially three walls of the room. The center bit is approx. 8x2, and the two sides are 2x4. I've spent the better part of the past week messing with track planning software, but when I come up with something, I find that it uses way too much flex-track, and it feels too organic and as if it were unplanned. 

I was hoping that you great great people here would be able to help me in designing a track. For reference, my wants and needs:

Need:
to fit the space (LOL)
both industrial and commuter trains 
modelling the UK in the steam era

Want:
Preferably either mining or logging industry (or both ;D, I have the space)
something modular, so I can put it together in bits (not so overwhelming)
A dock/port of some sort/other water features)

Thanks for all your help, in advanced 
if there's anything else anyone needs to know, just ask.

Stephen


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Welcome, I'm sure someone will come along soon.  FWIW, I'm starting on a new layout as well, so we'll both be looking for some ideas.


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Welcome to the forum, Stephen...

To kick start the both of you, I've got a track plan book for each of you if you'll PM me an address...


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think your rabbit has my address from the raffle. 

I'll send it PM.


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

On its way...:thumbsup:


----------



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Shay,

You continue to impress us all with your kindness and generosity ... well done, sir.

TJ


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks for all your welcomes, guys.

Shay, I PMed you


----------



## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Some one on here is our resident super computer layout designer and so would I if I had the coin for them nice cadrail programs and similar. He should be responding to this one in no time.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm surprised he hasn't posted here.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm temporarily delocated with my laptop as I'm on vacation, but if you give me a day or two, I should be up and running and have a few plans posted.


Edit: So is this how you want the tables setup?


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

cabledawg said:


> I'm temporarily delocated with my laptop as I'm on vacation, but if you give me a day or two, I should be up and running and have a few plans posted.
> 
> 
> Edit: So is this how you want the tables setup?


Thanks so much for this offer, you have no idea how much it means.

The right-hand table could probably be extended to about 2x6, as I managed to relocate two old monitors...


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

No problem. I just need to buy a lan cable so i can hook the laptop to my inlaws router.


----------



## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Welcome to the forum! Great group of guys here. Post some pics of your build when you get started!


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

@cabledawg: It's no rush; I don't want to interrupt your vacation 

@concretejumper: Thanks, I plan in it!

--

I'm going to see if I can take an inventory on what actually I have in terms of track and cars, as I don't even know...


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm working on one, but this one might take me longer than I thought. On top of doing research about UK trains, the narrow shelves arent leaving me much wiggle room. But I'll have a few up for you in a day or two.


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

cabledawg said:


> I'm working on one, but this one might take me longer than I thought. On top of doing research about UK trains, the narrow shelves arent leaving me much wiggle room. But I'll have a few up for you in a day or two.


Thank you so much. There's no rush; take your time.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok here is one, but I'm not happy with it. I put turntables at each end, and the small yards also have a runaround so you can turn the engine on the layout. You just cant run super long trains. Like 5 cars of 40' and under.

I squeezed in a mining/logging area, but not enough room to do both seperately. As for passenger stuff, I guess you could have a 2nd class coach or two in the consist (common with the branchlines of this era here in the US), but for an independant line, it would really cut into the available space for the other stuff, and I cant fit two turnarounds on each end.

I'll keep messing around with it, but this one does work ok. I ran a few small trains with a 2-6-0 in TrainPlayer and two small tank engines just to make sure. But feel free to criticize the design. If you see something you want changed, or think the whole thing stinks, just let me know.


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

cabledawg said:


> Ok here is one, but I'm not happy with it. I put turntables at each end, and the small yards also have a runaround so you can turn the engine on the layout. You just cant run super long trains. Like 5 cars of 40' and under.
> 
> I squeezed in a mining/logging area, but not enough room to do both seperately. As for passenger stuff, I guess you could have a 2nd class coach or two in the consist (common with the branchlines of this era here in the US), but for an independant line, it would really cut into the available space for the other stuff, and I cant fit two turnarounds on each end.
> 
> I'll keep messing around with it, but this one does work ok. I ran a few small trains with a 2-6-0 in TrainPlayer and two small tank engines just to make sure. But feel free to criticize the design. If you see something you want changed, or think the whole thing stinks, just let me know.


I really like the central area of it! You can easily run more than one at the same time on this, probably not more than 2 or 3 though.

What I think is the "least good" about it the two ends. I don't know how possible it is, but for one of the ends, maybe the dockside one, could we try some sort of loop? Maybe have the track on the right side have a turnout, and have one go back on itself, and one join up with the track on the left? 

Also: maybe we could move some of the center area down a little, and extend the very top track (to the right) along the entire wall, as an express route. Or, maybe connect it to the the track that's a little bit lower than it.

Thanks again for everything,
Stephen


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Dumb question, doesn't the turntable need some other tracks so there's somewhere for the equipment to go after it gets on the TT?


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Dumb question, doesn't the turntable need some other tracks so there's somewhere for the equipment to go after it gets on the TT?


The turntable is there simply to spin the locos. Since there is no loop, there is no way to turn the locos around for noral operation. I tried to fit a wye into the layout, but with only two feet of space, it's really difficult.

Warner: I didnt put a loop in because the table is only two feet wide, which even using a 15" radius, there isnt room to form a full loop. Now if you want to widen the table out to 36", then I can fit a loop at the docks if I move the docks over to the other side.

I'll do up another layout today showing you what I mean, but right now with the dimensions you gave me, there simply isnt enough room to make a loop track.


----------



## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Dumb question, doesn't the turntable need some other tracks so there's somewhere for the equipment to go after it gets on the TT?


Turntables can really eat up a lot of real estate with tracks fanning out from them in all directions, but they can also be used just as a terminal turn arounds in tight spots. I have two manual turntables and am going to use them as both turnarounds and runarounds. All it takes is one turnout with the two closely spaced spurs ending at the turntable. It allows the engine to be turned around at the end of a main line and positioned at the opposite end of the cars to pull them in the opposite direction. I saw this really neat idea in some pictures of a small narrow gauge railway. 

Greg


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Interesting, I never thought about simply turning the loco around, good idea.


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

@cabledawg: The most I can give you is already there, but not a whole lot, and hard to represent, is a sort of triangle between the "L" part, on the inside. 

http://cl.ly/2e1g3N0X1L1f0C2d063L

^ That's a *very* bad sketch (but the numbers are correct), about what I mean. I'm not sure how much it helps, but the room's too small to do much else and still be able to maneuver.


----------



## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

cabledawg,
The only other way around the 2 turn tables is a simple run around or 3 wyes turnouts in the corner, it's still really tight!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Suppose you want to turn the whole train around, how do you manage that?


----------



## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Suppose you want to turn the whole train around, how do you manage that?


A lift out cassette.


----------



## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

Stephen,

Are you sure there is no way you can add a 2' X 10' section to cabledawg's plan and have continuous running? This would give you a 2' X 8' middle section to stand in while running trains. You would have to "duck under" to get to it of course, but you could have it 48" off the ground for ease in bending under. That is just my thought on it...otherwise I like the plan cable made for you!

Chad


----------



## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Suppose you want to turn the whole train around, how do you manage that?


Ed King, a long time MR mag contributor, actually had a modified stereo turntable, just thru the wall of his small room (a small unusable space under stairs, I believe). It had a table long enough to handle a small loco and a 4-5 car consist, the most his layout could handle. When the train went into the tunnel, it would go to the end of the table and push a button. This stopped the train and started the turntable, bringing the train around 180 degrees, where it could then come back out of the tunnel, as though it had been on a distant trip. On his layout he had another small turntable, used to turn locos as part of regular ops, it led to a small single stall engine house.

Another option would be a removable car ferry. It could be loaded as part of regular ops, easily holding a dozen or more cars. Build several of these and swap them out as regular ferry runs and you could keep dozens of cars rotating on and off the layout.


----------



## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

And that little unusable space under the stairs is also where he hid his hootch from Mama:laugh::laugh:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I like the turntable, but an O-scale turntable would be a rather large affair!


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

mr_x_ite_ment said:


> Stephen,
> 
> Are you sure there is no way you can add a 2' X 10' section to cabledawg's plan and have continuous running? This would give you a 2' X 8' middle section to stand in while running trains. You would have to "duck under" to get to it of course, but you could have it 48" off the ground for ease in bending under. That is just my thought on it...otherwise I like the plan cable made for you!
> 
> Chad


Not immediately, but this would be something I'd like to put in later, but currently there's just no space for anything other than what I've got.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok I tried to fit in a wye at each coener, then just one corner and it just eats up too much room. I think the turntables and runarounds are your best bet.

I have one other idea and someone mentioned it already and that's to use cassettes. By placing cassettes where the yards are, you can pick up and turn around the train without it ever leaving the tracks. By using a Pendleton cassette, you can actually shuffle the cars much faster than using rerailers onthe layout. 

Check this out:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0O...v=onepage&q=chris pendlenton cassette&f=false


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks expensive and/or hard to build CD.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

You might have looked at the wron part of the page. I cant save pictures but the one I was referring to was the setup that uses a pair of aluminum angle peices attached to a skinny board. THe angle pieces serve many purposes. First is they substitute for actual rails. You space them the same as standard rails, and screw them down. Second, they conduct electricity to power the locos. Third is the upright parts to keep the train from falling completely off the cassette while transporting. The biggest advantage is that the cassettes can be lifted out, turned around, and placed back on the layout with the whole train staying intact. Additionally, extra cassettes with whole trains can be stored under or over the layout.

GRJ, I think its alot cheaper than you think and might work out as excellent solution to the narrow workspace that Warner has. Sure its not 100% prototypical, but sometimes we have to make sacrifices based on the space or money we have.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I saw a large version of this for O-scale, it was pretty cool, but looked way complicated and expensive. It was counter-weighted and allowed trains to drive on and off the other end, very tricky.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Here is the same layout as above, but with the Pendlenton cassettes at each end.

The way this would work is the train pulls into the yard. Once the work is done, the cassette is picked up, turned and place back in the same spot. THe train is now 180 deg and ready to run out on the mainline. Or you can remove that train and get one from "storage" to replace it. OR, you can move that train from one yard to the other. You still wont have tons of space for long trains, but now you wont have to worry about turning the train with run arounds and turntables.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

What's a Pendlenton cassette? Google doesn't seem to know.


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Chris Pendlenton designed a cassette for model trains that gave the ability to fiddle trains or move them from one place on the layout to another without taking the train off the tracks a piece at a time.


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

The plan with the cassets on the ends look a lot better, IMO. I just don't exactly get how they work and how you acquire/build them...could you elaborate a little?


----------



## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Honestly, I cant find much on the internet, but if you are willing to wait about another week and a half, I'll build a few when I get back home. I was going to build a few anyways to store my extra cars and loco's, so it isnt much trouble. I just cant do it right now


----------



## mr_x_ite_ment (Jun 22, 2009)

I can appreciate the cassette. It looks fairly straightforward and simple to build. I certainly think it would work just fine. I have a couple other ideas that could possibly work too. You could have a transfer table at the very ends sliding back and forth between the four tracks. It could be maybe a foot long and just one track. It would hold just the locomotive. You can pull in so the loco only is on the transfer table, unhook, and slide the loco over to an empty track. The loco would obviously have to pull the cars backwards to the other side, but that is done by the real thing sometimes. Another possibility might be to have all four tracks of the yard connect to one single turntable at the end (kinda like originally planned). You can then spin the loco, but would have to leave one track open (like the transfer table). It will be interesting to see what you decide! 

Chad


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's a link to that article: http://books.google.com/books?id=0O...page&q=Chris Pendlenton train cassette&f=true

Here's the book on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Shelf-Layouts-Model-Railroads-Iain/dp/0890246904


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks guys, I understand the cassette idea, and I think I'll do it that way instead.

Stephen


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd love to have the moving cassette that has counterweights and you can store a dozen full trains on it, that would be _uber-cool_!


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

Where do you see that?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It was a video someone posted here at one point. It was for O-scale and really huge! It was behind a wall, the layout was on the other side. Trains drove in through the wall, then the cassette moved and a different train drove out the other side. Very cool, but I can imagine took a LOT of work.


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

True, I can imagine! I think at some point I'd like to put some extra staging/cassetts at the back of my track. See: the left-hand side of my layout backs into the "under-the-stairs" portion of the room. Maybe some sort of divider would work...still planning things out, now that I've got the basic track plan down.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If I could figure out how to do it through a concrete wall, I'd probably consider it.


----------



## warner (Mar 13, 2011)

With a sledgehammer...?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I think I'll pass on that option.


----------



## trainguru (Jun 28, 2011)

A good tip I have found, is that you should start simple, no matter what your layout shape. I modeled a small, country town scene, with the tracks running right along main street. I'm a year older, and done a lot more railroading over the years. I think it's fun that people our ages are still interested in trains!  Another thing, you can never go wrong with steam power! Keep that in mind for future references! Welcome to the hobby!


----------

