# Ho tracks



## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Hi new to the hobby and starting out with trains in my snow village. Someone please tell me the Atlas tracks are better than Bachmann. Maybe it's me but I hate the Bachmann snap tracks. They just don't last and they don't seem to join together to provide a smooth track. It's like one of the rails on almost all the pieces are off. Makes a bumpy ride for trains. I really don't mean to bad mouth all Bachmann products. I just don't like the tracks. Iplan to try Atlas code 100 and mount them to a 4 x 8 plywood piece. So is Atlas better. Tranks Ted


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

For the smoothest layout, switch to flex track...it comes in
3 foot sections that you can bend to make your curves. 
The Atlas brand flex is very dependable. You
cut it with a Dremel or razor saw to the lengths you want.
It is available in code 100 at most hobby stores.

If it's possible widen your wood work to 5 feet which makes
possible 22" radius curves so you can run the big 6 axle diesels
and steamers. A foam covering will also make running
a little smoother. I used the 1/4" paper covered foam from
Walmart or Michaels. It's inexpensive and easy to use.
Use ordinary Elmer's white glue to attach track to it. Just
a dab here and there will do the job.

Don


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Thanks Don. I have 18 radius now and some wreaks happened. Locos, passenger cars, conductors, brakeman all laying all over the place. It was a terrible scene. So I have switched to smaller locos and cars. It's looks fine with my xmas village but I want to change it next year. So that's the reason for considering Atlas mounted to layout board. That way I won't have mess with the track every year. Good idea with the 5 feet wide deal. Can I just get Atlas code 100 tracks that I don't have to cut and piece ? that just join together. Oh one more thing I now have 2 ovals with one inside the other. I like the look of 2 trains passing each other. Want to keep that look.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You can also use a very thin caulk instead of white glue, but both work. With Atlas flex track you will need to hold it in place with pins or tacks until the caulk or glue sets. You might avoid atlas "snap" turnouts, but there custom line is OK. An alternate is ME flex track but its much more difficult to bend, but then is holds its shape. you would be wise to he DonR's comment about using a 5' width!


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

ted said:


> Thanks Don. I have 18 radius now and some wreaks happened. Locos, passenger cars, conductors, brakeman all laying all over the place. It was a terrible scene. So I have switched to smaller locos and cars. It's looks fine with my xmas village but I want to change it next year. So that's the reason for considering Atlas mounted to layout board. That way I won't have mess with the track every year. Good idea with the 5 feet wide deal. Can I just get Atlas code 100 tracks that I don't have to cut and piece ? that just join together. Oh one more thing I now have 2 ovals with one inside the other. I like the look of 2 trains passing each other. Want to keep that look.


Your original post said your B'mann track are not joining together correctly. Unless you have 6 axle diesels and long cars they should not be having "wrecks" and even then they might at most derail and lot be "laying all over the place". This sounds more like a track problem rather than the radius problem. Atlas does have sectionaI track if you prefer that.


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

About tracks in the hobby:

Unless you mount them on a sturdy, planar/very nearly planar surface, off of the floor, you can expect to encounter all sorts of problems. The brand of track doesn't matter when the confounding factors are poor supporting surfaces that are near where people's feet waft up pet dander, house dust, body hairs, etc. 

You have to inspect each joint, using a lightly sweeping finger tip, to feel if the joint is improperly connected. Large gaps are usually not so bad, provided they are not partway along a very sharp radius (less than 20" in HO). But, lifted ends caused by improperly joined track lengths, or broken/twisted joiners, will cause cars to hitch and possibly to derail.

Flex track means fewer joints. But, even those fewer joints matter. A good practice is to dress the two bearing surfaces lightly with a needle file to ensure smooth transition across the joints. 
What I mean is that you can impart a very shallow bevel/champher to the inner flange surface and the top tread of the rail head. But again, run your finger tip lightly across the joint, back and forth, to feel for a lifted tip.

Code matters, but the cost and availability is probably more important to people, especially new to the hobby and who may still need to pinch pennies at their stage of life. Code 100 is very robust and very popular, so it is the least costly and the most widely available. However, if you ever get to photographing your models to enter contests, you'll want higher fidelity to the prototype and more realism. This means your high iron, on a heavily used main hauling coal drags with 100 ton hoppers, for example, would have Code 83 because it represents 130 lb rail (close enough). Short lines would probably have lighter rail, but not necessarily; it depends on what they haul. Code 70 is increasingly popular, but it's a bit trickier to work with for newer hands. It's not so robust, so rough handling might end up costing a lot in damaged lengths.

Lastly, about the hobby in general engineering terms: the closer on gets to operating at stated, engineered, minimums in the hobby, the more likely are problems. If the toy says 18" radius, it 'should' work well at that radius, but you'll get more derailments than you will at 20", all other things being equal (same skill in laying the track, same operating speeds, same rolling stock, etc.) As a general rule, the closer one incurs on engineered limits, the higher the probability of problems across conditions.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

On what type of surface have you assembled the track?


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## Severn (May 13, 2016)

The bachmann gray plastic molded base track is better than the black. Kato everyone seems to agree is the best of this style track.

Peco is another brand that I think offers track similar to the atlas which I believe comes in the pre defined curves and lengths.

Flex which is very popular in ho is a you bend it, you cut it style track.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

ted said:


> Hi new to the hobby and starting out with trains in my snow village. Someone please tell me the Atlas tracks are better than Bachmann. Maybe it's me but I hate the Bachmann snap tracks. They just don't last and they don't seem to join together to provide a smooth track. It's like one of the rails on almost all the pieces are off. Makes a bumpy ride for trains. I really don't mean to bad mouth all Bachmann products. I just don't like the tracks. I plan to try Atlas code 100 and mount them to a 4 x 8 plywood piece. So is Atlas better. Thanks Ted


I have always liked Atlas track, in both HO-scale and N-scale. You could make two ovals on a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood using Atlas sectional straights and curved track. Sectional track is pre-cut to size, so you don't have to mess with any track cutting and fitting. The inner oval could have 18" radius curves, and the outer oval could have 22" radius curves. Just do a good job of laying it down, making sure the rail joiners connect properly to each piece of track. You can either glue the track down, or do it the old fashioned way with track nails.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I think a lot of folks are missing the point of your post.

Forst of all, if you weren't using a board or some solid surface under the tracks, that's most of your problem, right there. No brand of track is going to reliably work on a carpet.

So: Bachmann - probably the worst turnouts of any manufacturer. Otherwise, the track isn't much better or worse. Despite being "snap together", you still have to take care that the little rail joiners at the end of each rail slide onto the adjojning rail properly or you will have height alignment issues. Again, no brand of track is going to avoid this problem. I suspect that's most of your issue.

If you really do want to get rid of the Bachmann track, I agree with you that flex track isn't worth it for the purpose you intend. The best "roadbed track" (prefab track sections with attached plastic roadbed) is Kato's Unitrack. You might also want to try Atlas TruTrack. But in both cases, you'll still have to make sure the joiners slide onto the rail properly.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

I agree with the above comments and I use the Kato Unitrack and I am very satisfied with it. It comes in radii as tight as14-9/16"(370mm) and as wide as 34-1/8" (867mm).


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

If you're going to use "snap together" track (I do),
_and_
If you'd like "ballasted roadbed" with it
_and_
You want reliability
_then_
I suggest you investigate and try *Kato "Unitrack".*

It's the best pre-fab track.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

As has been repeatedly said…..


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

ted said:


> Hi new to the hobby and starting out with trains in my snow village. Someone please tell me the Atlas tracks are better than Bachmann. Maybe it's me but I hate the Bachmann snap tracks. They just don't last and they don't seem to join together to provide a smooth track. It's like one of the rails on almost all the pieces are off. Makes a bumpy ride for trains. I really don't mean to bad mouth all Bachmann products. I just don't like the tracks. Iplan to try Atlas code 100 and mount them to a 4 x 8 plywood piece. So is Atlas better. Tranks Ted


ted;

It sounds like you are in "plug-N-play mode" now, simply plugging sections of track together to form a couple of concentric oval loops. If that's as far as you plan to go, then Kato Unitrack would likely be your best choice. You are right to mount it to a board. That will keep the track stable and provide a level surface for it to mount on. If you plan to build a more elaborate layout later on, then the Kato track could be a viable choice, or you could add some flex track. However, it doesn't sound like you're ready for flex track now. Atlas does make sectional track in fixed 9" straight pieces and 18" radius and 22" radius curved pieces. The file below has more information on track types and the importance of good track laying. Some of this info will be beyond what you are doing now, but other parts do apply now, and all of it may in the future, if you decide to build a more elaborate & permanent, model railroad. 

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Atlas does make road bed track, True-Track, but it's joining system is not terribly secure, so if you wish to use it plan on mounting it to a table.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Thanks to everyone. This site is the best. You guys really know your stuff. I am getting into the model train hobby through my xmas village. Last year I had an oval under the tree with one battery powered train. The village was on the floor with a couple of elevated areas to about 2 feet. My first one. This year I am changing to a 2x8 table with, 2 ovals and 2 electric trains with the Bachmann snap tracks which I don't like. This is why I was asking about the tracks. next year I think I will try the kato and mount in to the plywood. That way I won't have to lay the tracks every year. Right now my tracks are laying on a 4 x 8 piece of 2 inch foam. I am in the plug and play mode with the village but I believe the train hobby bug has bitten me. I can see myself expanding my layout to include better trains, elevated with tunnels more trains. I will have to do it little at a time $$$, but I will get there. Thanks to you guys who will be there with experience and ideas for us newbees. Ted


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Oh I forgot something. Does anyone know if the Polar express will run on 18 radius. Not sure how big they are.or if I will need the 22 radius. Thanks Ted


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

ted said:


> Oh I forgot something. Does anyone know if the Polar express will run on 18 radius. Not sure how big they are.or if I will need the 22 radius. Thanks Ted


18" radius? Yes, both HO-scale and O-gauge.


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## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

I have been using Bachmann track on plywood with few derail problems and few alignment problems even though most of the track is not nailed down. That said, almost all the track sections have a slight upward camber which causes the cars to appear to be hobby horsing.

Now for the turnouts; almost all of my derailments occur at these turnouts. Out of the box, about half the turnouts I have needed adjustment of some kind: the points needed to be filed, the gauge on the diverging sections needed to be widened, and the rails, at the frogs, needed to be re-aligned.

At the time, I chose Bachmann over Kato as Bachmann had more choices for curve radii and had more options on pre-cut short sections. I laid out a three loop, 5 x 10 layout, with crossovers, without having to cut a single piece of track. 

I am using the DCC on-board turnouts and, at the time, was, unfortunately, restricted to their 18" radius turnouts. Bachmann has since come out with a DCC adapter for their EZ Command turnouts so that now the #4, #5, and #6 turnouts can be DCC controlled.

I did prefer the appearance of the Kato ballast. The Bachmann track has proven to be quite noisy even when mounted on Homasote.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

My experience is that Kato has more radii choices for curved track than Bachmann….


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

I think I will try Kato. The bachmann tracks havebeen hard to deal with. When snapped together the rails are not smooth. One is higher that the other and if you bump them it causes issues with alignment. I want to mount the tracks to plywood so I don't mess with laying out tracks every year for my xmas village. Now can anyone tell me if I can use Kato to have two ovals one inside the other. That's what I have now with Bachmann. Also can the Kato tracks be nailed down, ?


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Kato actually has a much better selection when it comes to their curved track. They have a better selection of radii. They even sell "double track" which is a section of track that is essentially 2 tracks side-by-side (although it is rather expensive).

Regarding your experience with Bachman track... I suspect you may be having issues with getting the rail joiners to fit correctly. Even though the plastic road beds sort of "snap" together, you still need to take care to be sure that the rail joiners fit onto the bottom flange of each rail. If one side of the rail joiner slips UNDER the rail rather than ONTO the rail, it will cause the track to be uneven.

When you have them joined correctly, you should be able to run your finger along the top side of the rail without feeling the joint.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Kato track sets….one will fit inside the other…..


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## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Very nice Old Hobo,

None of these sets or curves were available, or even mentioned, at the local hobby store. Does Kato have a set of different length straight sections?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

East Houston said:


> Very nice Old Hobo,
> 
> None of these sets or curves were available, or even mentioned, at the local hobby store. Does Kato have a set of different length straight sections?


Yes they do. Google Kato USA and click on Unitrack. At the top of the screen you will see green boxes and click on HO or N, whatever you're using, and you will get a link to Tracklist. I'm using Kato and have no complaints whatsoever.


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## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Thanks Gramps


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)




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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

ted wrote:
_"I want to mount the tracks to plywood so I don't mess with laying out tracks every year for my xmas village. Now can anyone tell me if I can use Kato to have two ovals one inside the other. That's what I have now with Bachmann. Also can the Kato tracks be nailed down, ?"_

Here's a pic I just took of a piece of Kato track.

Top view first:








You'll note there is a small "dimple" at mid-point.
It might be possible to use a SMALL drill here.
Drill a small pilot hole, and use a small nail (or perhaps screw) to fasten down the track.
HOWEVER -- I look on the underside and see no "support" under where the dimple is, so you would have to be CAREFUL about how much downward force you use, or it could distort or break the track.
I think screws might be better than nails, as you can "regulate" them much better as you tighten them down.

Here's the underside view:








You'll note that there ARE four "tubular" appendages as indicated.
I noted that these DO extend downward from the underside of the track to the baseline of the roadbed.

It -might- be possible to use a SMALL drill and carefully drill one of these, and then use small track nails to GENTLY "tack down" the track.

If you're just doing "ovals", I don't think you'll need to secure each and every section.
Kato track "locks together" so well that I think you could do fine by just securing every 3rd or 4th piece to your plywood (assuming the layout is going to be stored "on its side", etc.).

I don't use ANYTHING AT ALL to secure the track on my Kato-based layout.
The stuff hardly moves on its own, and I have my power feeds connected from underneath via Kato's "electrical unijoiners" which work like anchors to keep it from moving around.

To address your concern about a plywood base:

On my layout I used 1x3 for the framework, and 1/4" birch plywood for the top.
Some will say that 1/4" is too thin, and it IS too thin to support standing on it, etc.
But I don't stand on it.
With sufficient cross-bracing underneath, it's been fine for my needs.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Many people glue the track down rather than nailing or screwing. Regular old Elmers white glue. Just a small amount. It's permanent, but is also removeable if you ever need to remove, just gently pry up the track, and the glue will let go.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

And I thought it would be easy. i should have known. Maybe I will try glue. I want to store the top on it's side in the garage. That's why I thought nails would work best. But I might damage the track in the process. Jeff when you glued your track did you put the track together and then lift up a piece , glue it and then move on the another piece. I am also wondering where you the placed the glue. The bottom of the Kato track will not be flush with the plywood. Will I need to use a cork base to glue the track to.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Cork might be good, it would quiet the track….


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

I put mine on top of felt on a tabletop, without glue. Haven't had any problems with it slipping or derailing as a result.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Murv2 said:


> I put mine on top of felt on a tabletop, without glue. Haven't had any problems with it slipping or derailing as a result.


But I want to store the table top so I really need to secure the top for storage


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

It takes just a tiny dab of Elmer's every foot or so to hold track in
place, even when layout is on it's side. Track is removable simply
using a typical flat blade plaster knife.

Don


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Here's the way I understand your goal:

You have a a sheet of plywood, say 4' x 4' or 4' x 8' that you will set down, and put your Christmas tree on the middle of this sheet of plywood. You want concentric ovals of track, so train #1 can go in one direction, while train #2 goes in the other direction.

After Christmas, you plan to store the piece of plywood, with the track still on it, on one of it's edges in the garage. You're in AZ, so humidity while storing it in your garage is not a concern.

If you go with Kato Unitrack, I see no reason to use cork road bed, because the unitrack already has plastic road bed. I'd paint the plywood whatever color you want, then lay the unitrack right on the wood using Elmers glue. Before you glue, after you assemble the track, run trains to be sure the track is laid well (no bumps, etc.). Once you know the track is put together well, just lift up a short section at a time and squeeze a little glue under it. Weigh the track down with soup cans, or whatever you have handy, and then the next day, you should be all set!


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

ted said:


> But I want to store the table top so I really need to secure the top for storage


ted;

I recommend you secure your Kato track to the plywood, or better yet, extruded foam insulation board*, with latex calk, rather than Elmer's glue, as JeffHurl, and DonR, have suggested.

While with enough surface area, like the bottoms of the ties on non-roadbed track, Elmer's can hold track down, the bond to the track will be weak at best.
Elmer's glue is great for bonding porous materials like wood, paper, & cardboard. However, it is not designed to bond non-porous materials, like plastic, which is what the track is made of. Add to that fact the tiny amount of surface area available at the bottom edges of the plastic roadbed, and you will likely have your track come off the board when you store it on edge. Maybe the first time, or maybe the second, or fifth, or whenever, but sooner or later, it is going to fall off.

Latex calk, by contrast, sticks very well to both porous, and non-porous materials, so it will stick to both the track, and the board. It doesn't need a lot of surface area to bond to, and it has a long working time. It sets up overnight. You can lay out your complete track, trace around the edges with pencil, temporarily remove the track, and the lay a bead of caulk along the pencil lines. You can lay the track back on the board, and push it into the caulk, in whatever size sections you can easily handle. I don't think it will be necessary to divide the track down to individual small pieces, but you could do it that way if you want to. If you ever need to take up any of your track, you can apply some WD-40 to a putty knife, work it under the track base, and slide it along the track to get it off the board.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂

* Why Extruded foam instead of plywood? Because you can easily carve below-track-level scenery features like streams, rivers, & road underpasses out of the foam. Pieces of foam can be stacked like layers of a cake, and secured with caulk, to form hills, tunnels, etc. above the track. Another advantage is extremely light weight. Foam weighs almost nothing. The same is not true of plywood, particularly the 3/4" thick stuff that many use for layout bases. Foam is more expensive than plywood, although with the massive rise of lumber prices, that may no longer be the case.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

East Houston said:


> Very nice Old Hobo,
> 
> None of these sets or curves were available, or even mentioned, at the local hobby store. Does Kato have a set of different length straight sections?


Because the local hobby store wants to sell you what he has in stock, because he's already paid for it. Go in knowing what you want, and if he's a good businessman (already called into question by him not bringing up the other pieces available), he'll order it for you if he doesn't stock it. If not, take your business elsewhere.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

I've used 3M double-sided foam tape - the kind with the green tartan backing - to more or less permanently "tack down" both Bachmann N-scale EZ-Track and N-scale Kato Unitrack.to smooth bare wood. Cut little strips of it and apply them to the underside of section joints. Then take off the backing and apply to the wood. It's a tittle trickier than I made it sound, but it does work and comes apart easy if you need it to.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Okay, maybe I didn't explain it correctly. I want to use the Kato track that snaps together. It looks like the Kato roadbed track is like the Bachmann. The track does not lay flat on plywood. I am new to this am trying to understand but I cannot see how glue of any kind would attach the track to a piece of plywood or foam if the track is concave. I took a piece of Bachmann track and placed in on a flat counter top. When you look at the end you can see daylight. Maybe it's me and I just don't get it. Is the Kato snap together roadbed track like the Bachmann, concave and does lay flat. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to learn how you glue something that's away from the surface.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

You probably need to weight it down while the clue dries.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I just looked at my Bachmann EZ track sections, and they all lay flat as a pancake….don’t know what’s going on with yours….


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

Yea, they should be flat! Sounds like you got some defective track, or it was stored in an excessively hot environment.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

CTValleyRR said:


> Because the local hobby store wants to sell you what he has in stock, because he's already paid for it. Go in knowing what you want, and if he's a good businessman (already called into question by him not bringing up the other pieces available), he'll order it for you if he doesn't stock it. If not, take your business elsewhere.


There's a shop near me that stocks Bachmann, but not Kato. I doubt they will mention Kato either. Certainly not unless you ask for it, and then they may still try to sell you the Bachmann.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

ted said:


> Okay, maybe I didn't explain it correctly. I want to use the Kato track that snaps together. It looks like the Kato roadbed track is like the Bachmann. The track does not lay flat on plywood. I am new to this am trying to understand but I cannot see how glue of any kind would attach the track to a piece of plywood or foam if the track is concave. I took a piece of Bachmann track and placed in on a flat counter top. When you look at the end you can see daylight. Maybe it's me and I just don't get it. Is the Kato snap together roadbed track like the Bachmann, concave and does lay flat. Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to learn how you glue something that's away from the surface.


ted;

I'm not sure which side, or end, of the "roadbed track" (the kind that snaps together) you are looking at. If you look at two already attached pieces from the long side, they should be lying flat.
However, if you are looking at the narrow end of a piece of roadbed track (where the snap together connectors are) then it is normally concave. The roadbed has a hollow area under it, and you can look through that hollow, concave area under the track, and see daylight at the other end.
As for gluing, a bead of caulk run along the long bottom edges of the gray plastic roadbed piece (which should be lying flat against the board) will hold the track on the board, even though the rest of the roadbed piece, and the actual track, are above the board's surface.

Traction Fan


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## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

traction fan said:


> There's a shop near me that stocks Bachmann, but not Kato. I doubt they will mention Kato either. Certainly not unless you ask for it, and then they may still try to sell you the Bachmann.


My main layout table is 3/4" plywood with 1 x 4 stringers on 2'-0 centers with 1 x 8 pine extensions. About 1/3 to 1/2 the Bachmann track pieces, both curved and straight, are cambered in the long direction. The larger locos are heavy enough to push the pieces flat on the table, but the cars do not weigh enough; thus, the hobby horseing.

The main reason I initially went Bachmann was the availability of DCC controlled turnouts. I was hoping to reduce the wiring effort needed for solenoid TOs. Then I got into signals and there went any thoughts of reduced wiring. Also, the interlocking on the Bachmann track looked more robust than the Kato.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

traction fan said:


> ted;
> 
> I'm not sure which side, or end, of the "roadbed track" (the kind that snaps together) you are looking at. If you look at two already attached pieces from the long side, they should be lying flat.
> However, if you are looking at the narrow end of a piece of roadbed track (where the snap together connectors are) then it is normally concave. The roadbed has a hollow area under it, and you can look through that hollow, concave area under the track, and see daylight at the other end.
> ...


Thank you, thank you, thank you. That's what I am talking about. Sure If you look at the Bachmann track from the side it is laying flat. But If you look at the end it is concave and the track sits above the gluing surface. My question was how to glue a concave piece of track to a flat surface. I guess I could try gluing the long bottom edges and hope it's strong enough to stay together when I store in the garage after xmas . My other thought was to use Atlas code 100. I don' think it has the road bed and I my be able to nail it down. Any thoughts for the newbee.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

ted said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you. That's what I am talking about. Sure If you look at the Bachmann track from the side it is laying flat. But If you look at the end it is concave and the track sits above the gluing surface. My question was how to glue a concave piece of track to a flat surface. I guess I could try gluing the long bottom edges and hope it's strong enough to stay together when I store in the garage after xmas . My other thought was to use Atlas code 100. I don' think it has the road bed and I my be able to nail it down. Any thoughts for the newbee.


That's what most do. Just a dab along the edges. For your purpose thought, I might use hot glue. You can put a good size shot of it in the middle and it should fill the space and hold well. Use a low temp glue/ gun to be safe (Although the kato track is pretty sturdy) and not warp the plastic. I used this method on kato unitrack, although it is overkill for me. I think it would serve your purpose well. I will still be removable if you need to without to much fuss using a flat putty knife. 

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

Something else to consider: you can't easily use Atlas insulated joiners with EZ-track because the little tab that actually separates the rail sections in the insulated joiner is wide enough to keep the joint in the Bachmann roadbed from fully closing; and their turnouts aren't power routing. I guess you could grind down the rails where you want an Atlas joiner to accommodate the tab.. Also, the Bachmann rail joiners aren't supposed to come off - they're bonded to the rails. Unitrack has they're own insulated joiners. Maybe it's not an issue if you're starting off with DCC.


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## Murv2 (Nov 5, 2017)

ted said:


> But I want to store the table top so I really need to secure the top for storage


Honestly, take the track apart and put it in the box with the trains, store the sheet of plywood. I've been using unitrack for several years, taking it apart and putting it together and haven't had a problem with either connectivity or derailing. Reassembling a couple ovals will only take 5 minutes and the track will be better protected than if you keep it in the garage. It's your train though...


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

Murv2 said:


> Honestly, take the track apart and put it in the box with the trains, store the sheet of plywood. I've been using unitrack for several years, taking it apart and putting it together and haven't had a problem with either connectivity or derailing. Reassembling a couple ovals will only take 5 minutes and the track will be better protected than if you keep it in the garage. It's your train though...


This is also true... of unitrack anyway. I have heard less good about using bachmann eztrack this way, however. 

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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Murv2 said:


> Honestly, take the track apart and put it in the box with the trains, store the sheet of plywood. I've been using unitrack for several years, taking it apart and putting it together and haven't had a problem with either connectivity or derailing. Reassembling a couple ovals will only take 5 minutes and the track will be better protected than if you keep it in the garage. It's your train though...


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Now that's worth considering. Maybe easier than trying to glue down two ovals. humm (thinking)..sounds like you have done this in the past. It seems the Bachmann eztrack just doesn't hold up well. Take it apart and put it back together a couple of times and it's never the same. I appreciate all the advice and information I have received in this forum and would like to thank all the members. i think I will try the Kato unitrack and hope it works better than the Bachmann I have been using. If I can take the Kato apart and put it together with no issues then I will store them with the trains as Murv2 suggested. Thanks again guys. 













't


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I have taken apart unitrack dozens of times. It anyways fits back together just as snug as the first time. 

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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

vette-kid said:


> I have taken apart unitrack dozens of times. It anyways fits back together just as snug as the first time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Thanks for your input. I am going to buy 2 kato ovals. One inside the other. 2 trains.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

ted said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you. That's what I am talking about. Sure If you look at the Bachmann track from the side it is laying flat. But If you look at the end it is concave and the track sits above the gluing surface. My question was how to glue a concave piece of track to a flat surface. I guess I could try gluing the long bottom edges and hope it's strong enough to stay together when I store in the garage after xmas . My other thought was to use Atlas code 100. I don' think it has the road bed and I my be able to nail it down. Any thoughts for the newbee.


ted;

You're welcome, You're welcome, You're welcome. That's what we do here, help each other out. 
You are also correct. Atlas code 100, and most other flex track, or sectional track*, does not come with a plastic roadbed piece attached to the bottom of each track piece. Modelers typically glue, or nail, this type of track on top of either cork, or foam, commercial roadbed. The cork/foam roadbed is glued to the table surface and the the track is nailed or glued on top of the roadbed. The most commonly used "glue" for both the roadbed-to-table, and the track-to-roadbed securing, is latex caulk. Later loose ballast may be added, and that is secured with diluted white glue. If you like roadbed track, like Bachmann, or Kato, then laying a bead of caulk all along each bottom edge of the plastic roadbed piece (small as that surface is) will create a very strong bond, which will hold your track firmly in place, even when you store it in your garage every year. The track will only come off the table if you intentionally remove it with a WD-40 coated putty knife as I described earlier. 

As for "thoughts for the newbie", you have asked the right person! 😄 
I wrote the files attached below specifically to help newbies. Look through them if you wish. You might also order a copy of the book "Getting Started in Model Railroading" by Jeff Wilson. Its available from Amazon, and is an excellent "first book" for people just starting out in this hobby.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂

* Atlas "True Track" is one exception in that it is Atlas sectional track but does have a (removeable) plastic roadbed piece under it.,


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

East Houston said:


> My main layout table is 3/4" plywood with 1 x 4 stringers on 2'-0 centers with 1 x 8 pine extensions. About 1/3 to 1/2 the Bachmann track pieces, both curved and straight, are cambered in the long direction. The larger locos are heavy enough to push the pieces flat on the table, but the cars do not weigh enough; thus, the hobby horseing.
> 
> The main reason I initially went Bachmann was the availability of DCC controlled turnouts. I was hoping to reduce the wiring effort needed for solenoid TOs. Then I got into signals and there went any thoughts of reduced wiring. Also, the interlocking on the Bachmann track looked more robust than the Kato.


East Houston;

The real weak point of the Bachmann EZ-Track system seems to be the turnouts, rather than the actual track. The Bachmann turnouts have a very bad reputation for reliability. Kato turnouts have just the opposite reputation. Those who use them seem to love them. I don't personally use either brand of roadbed track, (I'm a Micro Engineering flex track guy.) So the info on Bachmann & Kato turnouts is second hand. Do you have Bachmann turnouts, and do they work well for you? 

Traction Fan


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Some of us still use nails to attach roadbed to sub-roadbed, and then nail track through that to the sub-roadbed. The old school way.


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## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

traction fan said:


> East Houston;
> 
> The real weak point of the Bachmann EZ-Track system seems to be the turnouts, rather than the actual track. The Bachmann turnouts have a very bad reputation for reliability. Kato turnouts have just the opposite reputation. Those who use them seem to love them. I don't personally use either brand of roadbed track, (I'm a Micro Engineering flex track guy.) So the info on Bachmann & Kato turnouts is second hand. Do you have Bachmann turnouts, and do they work well for you?
> 
> Traction Fan


Short answer - the Bachmann TOs work well for me; however, .....

On my layout, about 2/3 of the turnouts and all the crossovers are Bachmann DCC. New, out of the box, almost all of the TOs have eventually had to be tweaked one way or another to reduce derailments: filing the points, adjusting the curvature of the point rails, adjusting the horizontal and vertical alignment of the rails at the frog, adjusting the flatness of the TO, and adjusting the gauge of the rails. The crossovers have not required much, if any, adjustment.

Once I found the alignment problem at the frogs, the flatness problem, and the gauge problem, the need for filing the points seems to have become much less important.

The TOs appear to use code 83 rails and wheel flange depth does not seem to have been a cause of any of the derailments.

Once installed and working the TOs are fairly reliable. However, mainline programming of locos seems to confuse the DCC operation of the TOs. If I program on mainline, the blocks with TOs have to be powered down; unless I want to re-program several TOs; an easy job, but annoying.

I have not had any problems with the solenoids.

As my layout continues to evolve and while addressing problems with the TOs, I have removed and re-installed many pieces and parts of the Bachmann track. This work has not seemed to affect the locking mechanism that holds the track together. Note that use of the Bachmann 3/4" long straight track piece does require removal of the locking mechanism on the track sections that connect to the 3/4" piece.

At the time of purchase the DCC TOs were only available in 18" radius. With this short radius, long, light weight passenger cars tend to derail when operated in reverse in a yard where the TOs are close together.

Now that the problems have been identified, I plan to stick with the Bachmann I have. The cost to replace with another brand of track has nothing to do with that decision. TIC.

Cheers,


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Regarding Kato track -- you will find that it snaps together so tightly, that it's not easy to "get it apart" again.

What I've found useful for breaking the joints is a VERY small flat-blade screwdriver, such as you'll find in "eyeglass repair kits". You need to "work it into" the space between the track sections, then pop the two pieces apart.

If you're going to break down the Kato layout at the end of the season, it might do to find a storage box big enough to hold several pieces of track, so that you don't have to disassemble it completely. Just break each loop into 4-6 "sections", and store it that way.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

East Houston said:


> Short answer - the Bachmann TOs work well for me; however, .....
> 
> On my layout, about 2/3 of the turnouts and all the crossovers are Bachmann DCC. New, out of the box, almost all of the TOs have eventually had to be tweaked one way or another to reduce derailments: filing the points, adjusting the curvature of the point rails, adjusting the horizontal and vertical alignment of the rails at the frog, adjusting the flatness of the TO, and adjusting the gauge of the rails. The crossovers have not required much, if any, adjustment.
> 
> ...


East Hustlon;

Thank you for the information on Bachmann turnouts.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Murv2 said:


> Honestly, take the track apart and put it in the box with the trains, store the sheet of plywood. I've been using unitrack for several years, taking it apart and putting it together and haven't had a problem with either connectivity or derailing. Reassembling a couple ovals will only take 5 minutes and the track will be better protected than if you keep it in the garage. It's your train though...


Well, II was going to try your suggestion regarding unitrack , but have run into a snag. I was looking at the Kato HV5 because it's an oval that's designed to fit in a 4x8 layout. It is 7 ft long and 3.7 ft wide, perfect for the outer one. But I found out that Kato does not make an oval that fits inside the the HV5, probably a radius thing. Kato makes a larger version HV1 and an oval Hm1 that fits inside the HV1 but it's to long and wide for my 4x8 table top. So my search goes on.


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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

They may not seem it in a kit, but they sell just about any radius you might need to do so. 

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## vette-kid (May 2, 2020)

I stand corrected. Looks like that is their smallest ho radius. That's surprising. 

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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

The HV5 oval is listed as 84" x 45" on their website. That should mean that the radius track in the oval is their #2-210 21-5/8" radius. You can buy packs of curve track, 4 pieces in a pack, of #2-270 19-1/4" radius or #2-260 16-7/8" radius to set up inside the HV5. They even have a 14-9/16" radius #2-280 but that is probably too tight. You can also buy individual straight track packs. So while they don't sell a smaller oval as a kit, you can easily create one.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Gramps said:


> The HV5 oval is listed as 84" x 45" on their website. That should mean that the radius track in the oval is their #2-210 21-5/8" radius. You can buy packs of curve track, 4 pieces in a pack, of #2-270 19-1/4" radius or #2-260 16-7/8" radius to set up inside the HV5. They even have a 14-9/16" radius #2-280 but that is probably too tight. You can also buy individual straight track packs. So while they don't sell a smaller oval as a kit, you can easily create one.


Well thanks Gramps. That's the answer. would you do the 19 1/4 ?


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Glad to help. That radius should give you 2-3/8" between the arcs of the two curves, that's the distance between the center lines of the tracks. I would think that would be enough unless you are running very long rolling stock. Maybe someone else can confirm that.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

ted wrote:
_"Well, II was going to try your suggestion regarding unitrack , but have run into a snag. I was looking at the Kato HV5 because it's an oval that's designed to fit in a 4x8 layout."_

Your post above _makes no sense._

I have a 4x8 layout, and Kato Unitrack fits PERFECTLY to make an "outer" and "inner" track (on both straights and curves).

Buy the right pieces and put it all together yourself.

You want the *#2-210* curved pieces (21 5/8" radius) for your outside track, and the *#2-270* (19 1/4" radius) for your inside track.

Here's a pic of my layout (based on the "Black River Junction" plan) during early assembly. the width of the table is 48". You'll note that the Kato track is designed so well that the track sections tend to "fade away" once assembled (unlike nearly all other sectional track). Enlarge this pic to get a better view.


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

I am assuming you are looking for roadbed track for the temporary set up. I have some old HO Bachmann EZ Track the black roadbed with steel rail, it was what I could afford at the time. It did work ok - but - I did not want to stay with it as the rep is not so good. The other 2 options are Atlas True Track and Kato Track. I wanted originally to go with Atlas however it's availability was limited. I finally found some and it seemed to work fine, including the turnouts. Curves are 18", 22", and 24". But since I could not find anymore I kind of lost interest. The Atlas website shows it to be fully stocked. 

I also do N gauge. I had a considerable amount of N EZ Track and I was bitterly disappointed when I tried to make a layout - just for Christmas. I had wanted to try the Atlas N True Track but it was never available when I was looking. Does not fill you with confidence. It does seem to be available now. I acquired Kato N including bridges and switches and they all worked great. So I am going to say that the HO is easily as good as the N, at least that is the overall impression I get. 

FWIW The Atlas is made in China. I had heard that was the reason for it's unavailability. And there may be other issues going forward. While I do not know this for an absolute truth I believe that Kato is made in Japan. I have only seen True Track at shows and some web stores. Kato seems to be available everywhere.

I think roadbed track is fine and probably preferable for temporary layouts. But that is me.

Frank


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Okay. I am very new to this hobby and especially the Kato unitracks , so pardon me if I don't seem to make any sense to you. I was interested in the HV5 because it's a kit designed to fit a 4x8 layout. No need to buy a bunch of pieces to make it myself. Perfect I thought. Maybe that's why Kato offers the kit. I thought Kato also offered a kit that would fit inside the HV5 oval, but they don't . So as Gramps pointed out on his post, since Kato .doesn't offer a kit I could just buy the 270 curved 19 1/4 pieces to make my own oval to fit inside the HV5 kit. So that's what I had decided to do. if I could have bought a kit to go inside the KV5 I would have done that. but that's just me. My 4x8 layout is really a xmas village so I was trying to keep the track selection easy and simple. Because I am but a simple man, who likes to keep things simple.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

ted said:


> Okay. I am very new to this hobby and especially the Kato unitracks , so pardon me if I don't seem to make any sense to you. I was interested in the HV5 because it's a kit designed to fit a 4x8 layout. No need to buy a bunch of pieces to make it myself. Perfect I thought. Maybe that's why Kato offers the kit. I thought Kato also offered a kit that would fit inside the HV5 oval, but they don't . So as Gramps pointed out on his post, since Kato .doesn't offer a kit I could just buy the 270 curved 19 1/4 pieces to make my own oval to fit inside the HV5 kit. So that's what I had decided to do. if I could have bought a kit to go inside the KV5 I would have done that. but that's just me. My 4x8 layout is really a xmas village so I was trying to keep the track selection easy and simple. Because I am but a simple man, who likes to keep things simple.


This was not directed to you frank.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

ted said:


> Okay. I am very new to this hobby and especially the Kato unitracks , so pardon me if I don't seem to make any sense to you. I was interested in the HV5 because it's a kit designed to fit a 4x8 layout. No need to buy a bunch of pieces to make it myself. Perfect I thought. Maybe that's why Kato offers the kit. I thought Kato also offered a kit that would fit inside the HV5 oval, but they don't . So as Gramps pointed out on his post, since Kato .doesn't offer a kit I could just buy the 270 curved 19 1/4 pieces to make my own oval to fit inside the HV5 kit. So that's what I had decided to do. if I could have bought a kit to go inside the KV5 I would have done that. but that's just me. My 4x8 layout is really a xmas village so I was trying to keep the track selection easy and simple. Because I am but a simple man, who likes to keep things simple.


On the plus side, you got confirmation that the 2-270 will fit inside the 2-210 with no problem. Just a bump on the learning curve, hang in there.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

ftauss said:


> FWIW The Atlas is made in China. I had heard that was the reason for it's unavailability. And there may be other issues going forward. While I do not know this for an absolute truth I believe that Kato is made in Japan. I have only seen True Track at shows and some web stores. Kato seems to be available everywhere.


I have heard the reason is a global shipping backlog, due to lack of shipping containers…..containers used to cost $5,000.00 each to ship, now they are north of $15,000.00…..

Price increases coming soon….


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Gramps said:


> On the plus side, you got confirmation that the 2-270 will fit inside the 2-210 with no problem. Just a bump on the learning curve, hang in there.


Oh yea, it's a learning curve alright


Old_Hobo said:


> I have heard the reason is a global shipping backlog, due to lack of shipping containers…..containers used to cost $5,000.00 each to ship, now they are north of $15,000.00…..
> 
> Price increases coming soon….


Yea, I heard that too. Also I guess china is having a real problem with power. Rolling blackouts etc. Might slow down their products they ship to us. I am going to check Walmart and Lowes for xmas stuff. It seems everything I buy comes from China. I hope they appreciate that.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Actually, the consumers here that want things at the lowest possible cost are the appreciative ones….that’s why things are getting made over there….our big corporations went there for cheap labour to maximize their profits….we can thank them actually…..


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Ted --

As you have found, it might be easier to just buy the track components you need "individually" (rather than in a complete kit).

I don't know if you've ordered everything yet, but you might browse around some of the online sources. I was able to buy the entire "Black River Junction" layout all boxed into a "compete set" and then re-arranged things as needed. And I got a significant discount as well.

If Kato offers a 4x8 track set with the 2-210 curves, get that.
Then see if they sell a 4x8 set with 2-270 curves. If they DON'T, get what you need as individual pieces.

If you look at the layout I posted in #67 above, you can see that it's possible to link the two ovals together with switches/crossovers. You might not need/want this at the beginning, but later on you may want some more "operational options".

And perhaps a side-track or two...


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

J.Albert1949 said:


> Ted --
> 
> As you have found, it might be easier to just buy the track components you need "individually" (rather than in a complete kit).
> 
> ...


I haven't ordered anything yet. Did you buy the junction layout from someone that used it on their layout. I was really trying to keep it simple. That's why I was interested in a kit. I started this xmas village with one battery operated train under the tree. I now have added a 4x8 table and two powered trains. Two ovals of Bachmann tracks,, one inside the other. I hate these tracks. From alignment issues to rails not smooth. I just can't get them to work for me. So I was trying to come up with tracks that would snap together, be smooth at the joints so the trains don't bump at the rails and good electrical consistence. So I thought I would try the Kato. I bought some used Bachmann tracks from ebay to expand my oval, Well they were used alright, I agree with you, I think it's best for me to buy the hv5 kit, 210, and then buy individual 270 pieces to go inside. I am hesitant to buy used tracks from ebay. So I may buy new 270 tracks. I wonder how many curved pieces I would need. The HV5 is 7 ft long, if I wanted to shorten the length for some reason,I could just eliminate one long piece on each side. Same thing with 270 pieces. Thanks, Ted


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## bw12 (Sep 21, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> I have heard the reason is a global shipping backlog, due to lack of shipping containers…..containers used to cost $5,000.00 each to ship, now they are north of $15,000.00…..
> 
> Price increases coming soon….


You are correct about the increase in shipping containers. Yet another problem is these containers sit on the water awaiting unloading.. Then, due to trucking shortages, no guarantee when they will be unloaded and reloaded to ship to their various destinations.
Believe this will work out but perhaps not in the near future...


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Kato 2-270 track comes 4sections in a pack and you will need 4 packs to do the loop. They list each track as 22.5 degrees so one pack gives you a 90 degree curve (4x22.5=90). So does the 2-210 but you will have what you need in the HV5 kit. On posts #20 and 27 Old Hobo printed Kato track lists. One thing to remember in the 7' length, about 45" of that length is from the diameter of the 2-210 curves, the rest is from the straight sections, probably their 2-150 9-3/4" track. They have a feeder track, 2-151, that is also 9-/3/4" so I guess the kit will come with seven 2-150's and one 2-151. If you wanted to shorten the length, as you mentioned, you would have to do it by removing a straight section, not the curves


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Like Grampa said, one of the pieces that will come with the kit will be a feeder for the electrical connection. You will need one for inner loop as well. The good news is that the feeders are the same length as the regular piece. The feeders are usually also a re-railer.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

JeffHurl is correct that you will need a feeder track to the inner loop as well. Kato has a product that you could plug both feeders into and connect that to the power pack but it's something I'm not familiar with. The 2-151 feeder track on my layout is not a rerailer, the rerailers I have are about 6" long.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

JeffHurl said:


> Like Grampa said, one of the pieces that will come with the kit will be a feeder for the electrical connection. You will need one for inner loop as well. The good news is that the feeders are the same length as the regular piece. The feeders are usually also a re-railer.


All great info. Thanks Ted. Sure glad I found this site.


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## ted (Jul 29, 2021)

Gramps said:


> JeffHurl is correct that you will need a feeder track to the inner loop as well. Kato has a product that you could plug both feeders into and connect that to the power pack but it's something I'm not familiar with. The 2-151 feeder track on my layout is not a rerailer, the rerailers I have are about 6" long.


Okay, I understand the feeder. Is their a way to run the outer and inner loop with one kato power pack. The Bachmann power packs won't work on the kato tracks ?


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

ted said:


> Okay, I understand the feeder. Is their a way to run the outer and inner loop with one kato power pack. The Bachmann power packs won't work on the kato tracks ?


ted;

You can hook both feeders to the same power pack and run two trains. However, you will not have individual control of either train. Both will move forward, backward, fast, or slow, together. Note: if you reverse one set of wires, then you could have the two trains run in opposite directions, but you will still not have individual control.
If your Kato, and Bachmann, power packs each output DC current, then you should be able to use the Bachmann pack on Kato track. The only issue will be the plugs that Kato uses. You would need to get past the plugs & solder wires from the Bachmann pack directly to the track.

The attached file has more info on wiring and control.

Traction Fan 🙂


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

ted said:


> Okay, I understand the feeder. Is their a way to run the outer and inner loop with one kato power pack. The Bachmann power packs won't work on the kato tracks ?


Tracks with specialized feeder connections may have proprietary plugs, but there's nothing stopping you from either splicing wires to join dissimilar plugs, or, if the power pack has screw terminals, simply buying the wired plug that goes with your track and connecting it to those.

You can also dispense with the feeder track entirely and use a pair of feeder joiners, or even solder wires to the track yourself.

DC power is DC power. It doesn't matter whose power pack creates it.


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## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> I have heard the reason is a global shipping backlog, due to lack of shipping containers…..containers used to cost $5,000.00 each to ship, now they are north of $15,000.00…..
> 
> Price increases coming soon….


I live near several container ports in Laporte, Tx. The Laporte/Houston area is swapped with empty containers. The lack of containers for the out of country shippers has been partially caused by a lack of US exports. Who wants to pay to ship empty containers half way across the world when it is cheaper to build new ones and use them once? Talk about a disposable society.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Here's a listing I found of Kato "boxed sets":





HO Boxed Track Sets







www.katousa.com





This one looks like it will work for a complete oval that will fit on a 4x8:


https://www.katousa.com/images/unitrack/3-115.jpg



That's the "outside oval".
For the inside oval, I don't see a pre-packaged Kato set.

Here's a source for individual track pieces:




__





Shop Model Train Track


Expand your model train layout with new track for railroading from brands you love like Rokuhan, Atlas, and more.




www.modeltrainstuff.com





I think they also carry the basic oval set.


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