# More discussion of base material.



## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

We had some discussion in another thread on this subject, but it was really a hijacking since it got a little off the track of the OP, so I'll start another one better focused.

The discussion had to do with OSD underlayment vs. other choices. Today I want to Menards to handle some of the possibilities. Menards seems to have the best selection of any of the big box home improvement stores.

I picked up several of the choices and tapped on them to get a comparison of their drum like qualities. I don't know if this is a valid test or not. Probably not, certainly not very scientific.

But I did compare some against OSD. One sort of caught my eye, or should I say ear. It was called Particle Board. It's fairly dense and very smooth surfaced. Used in cabinet making. It's the same price at Menards as OSD.

In tapping on it, I noted it had a deeper thump than OSD. I take this to mean it would produce less noise than OSD, but my tapping on it may be a different comparison than trains would be, I don't know.

I really like the clean smooth surface. Great to draw a layout on.

What I don't know is what the ramifications might be if one had to drive nails or screws in to it. Also, I don't yet know what to put on top of it, or on top of some other choice. Nothing stands out as ideal in my mind.

If anyone has any experience with this type board, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Deane


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## Bwells (Mar 30, 2014)

OSB, oriented strand board is a little rougher than particle board but both have a lot of glue in them making it difficult to nail into. Both have a smell to them also. Both are heavier than plywood but you can get a good grade of ply like AC or CC plugged that has a smooth side and much easier to spike track down if that is your route. All will require countersinking to fasten to the frame work.


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks Bwells. Those were sort of my gut feelings and fears. I appreciate your detail. I learned the hard way 40 years ago while starting a layout with hand laid ties and rail that driving spikes into plywood is a disaster.

I'm having a real time figuring out what would work best for me on top of the base layer. Nothing seems perfect since I'd prefer not gluing track down. It might come to that however. I'm a person who likes to leave his options open for future changes and adjustments. And, I do know I want it as quiet as possible, now seemingly more important than ever with on-board sound systems.


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## kb2rocket (Nov 13, 2016)

I worked in a cabinet shop we used particle board a lot
It's main advantage is its resistance to warping and it is very flat it makes great self's if laminated
.
Now on the down side if it gets wet a 3/4 board will grow to 1 1/2 it is heavy it doesn't hold fasteners well its best to pre drill and use screws . It is known to off gas fermaldahyde 
.


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

Would it be safe to assume that since it's used in cabinets, the formaldehyde issue would be at a safe level?

Wetness shouldn't be an issue as the room is totally dry, with a dehumidifier running in the summer time. It's only partially below grade on one side.

I probably would need to depend solely on the noise layer above for fastening, which is probably a greater issue to figure out.

These comments are all very helpful in my thought process.


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## kb2rocket (Nov 13, 2016)

Deane Johnson said:


> Would it be safe to assume that since it's used in cabinets, the formaldehyde issue would be at a safe level?
> 
> Wetness shouldn't be an issue as the room is totally dry, with a dehumidifier running in the summer time. It's only partially below grade on one side.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't be concerned about the off gassing this stuff is used in homes everywhere safely I just was aware of it due to the high volume of it I was exposed to in the shop


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Particle board wrecks saw blades and does have that nasty feature of swelling with moisture. Its also very heavy and difficult to use. Look at Joe Fugates method of using thin strips of 1/4" Masonite for under the track. Looks like a nice way to make a great smooth base for the rail. I used 1/4 plywood and screwed 2 layers together to form the base, then put a layer of 1/4 foam (the folding type used behind siding) then milled Homosote roadbed on top. Its surprising how substantial it is and I can tell a distinct difference between places where I only have one layer of 1/4 ply vs. the 2 layers. On my test layout I have flat places with one layer of plywood, 2-5 layers usually to make grades and curves and one end where I used only 1" foam as the base for the 1/4 foam and milled Homasote roadbed. Worst rumbling is from the 2' x 4' 1/4 ply panel, seems to act as a sounding board even thru the foam and Homasote. The just foam part actually does a reasonable job, but the best is the interlaced 1/4 ply 2-3 layers thick. After reading Joe's book, I think the thin masonite strips is the way to go, but I would probably still put the 1/4 foam on top and either a layer of drywall or the milled homasote roadbed. The milled homasote roadbed was really easy to install (caulk used as glue) and just worked a lot better than the cork I had used previously. I built this 9'x5' layout to test the various type of construction techniques and the use of DCC. Its all open frame work so its easy to try different things. Its at the point of me doing some scenery now.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

Deane

It usually isn't necessary to create your bench work
as if it is to support heavy machinery. I used 1 X 4s,
and 3ply plywood for a top. I covered that with the
paper covered foam from Walmart crafts section. Many,
however, prefer to use 1 or 2 inch insulating foam.

I have used homosote on an N scale layout decades
ago, mostly, because it was easy to push the track
spikes into it to hold the track. If you will be using
glue to hold the roadbed and track, as most
of us do, then homosote has no advantage.

Don


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 19, 2016)

I used the term benchwork, when I probably should have referred to the cover bed, both layers, the support and the acoustic layer.

I agree, the benchwork part is pretty simple. I have a lot of power tools for woodworking, so other than the effort, that part shouldn't be a challenge.

Homasote probably answers my need most, and I can buy it locally, but I've sort of tried to find something else since it's fallen a little bit out of favor. I suspect that might be partially do to both cost and lack of availability rather than performance.

I may hold off a final decision until both the benchwork and the support layer are in place, though the support layer is an integral part of the sound and stability control.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I keep coming back to 2" foamboard placed in joists on 18"-ish centers. True it doesn't hold track nails, but I prefer adhesive anyway. This setup is strong enough to support my weight, yet ridiculously light.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

Yes we have a tendency to over build. The one end of the layout that is just foam stuck together with glue is surprisingly strong, but for me it was easier to make and adjust grades with the thin plywood layer and mess around with adjusting the grade with vertical supports than using the foam, but both were workable. The foam part looks like a jumble of glued together foam but when you make T beams in rigid foam its really strong!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Yiu can use Woodland Scenics incline starters to get even % increments. For something between that, I've been able tomshape it with a rasp using a board cut to the correct slope on my table saw as a guide. If i over cut, i just fill with foam putty or drywall mud and try again.

And no one sees the jumble of scraps once a little scenery work is done.


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