# Curious: making my own DCC decoder



## wvgca

raining here now ... bored ..
making my own dcc decoder, based on the old [2001] merg version 12 decoder with stealth [hf pwm], and back emf feedback ..
loaded a pic 16f87 with my old programmer, and all standard [non smd versions], parts bread boarded .. seems to work okay, just doing testing now on the roller stand, bemf pretty aggressive response .. 
supposed to be 1.5 amp rated, so will be enough for my ho stuff , 16 mhz pic clock speed, five function outputs, might add an auto reset fuse from the bridge to the positive common [blue] for the function outputs ..
looks like buying the blank pcb from merg, and smd components from digikey, around 14 to 16 bucks each, plus assembly time ..
not a big savings, but bonus satisfaction in saying 'i rolled my own'


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## gunrunnerjohn

I don't know, soldering a bunch of SMT components on to any quantity of boards would really run up the cost unless your time is truly worthless!  I build one or two prototypes of a new project, but then I get them assembled.


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## wvgca

it's been a while since I actually bought any custom boards, last ones were for a serial interface / external power trigger for a laptop based agricultural gps mapping system, before that for a motor controller for TEC cash registers, and quite a few Jtag readers for old B.U.D. satellite systems ..
it's raining, I'm bored, and surprised to find I had the parts needed for the controller .. it's just running away at 6/28 on the rollers right now ..too clumsy to track run with the bread board
the merg site has pcb images available, included in the code / documentation file .. 
I have made my own small size / simple pcb's before, much better luck with negatives than toner transfer methods .. most were regular discrete components as opposed to smd, i just have a hot air reflow gun, old basic one, and I'm pretty sure my solder paste is long outdated
at this point it's kind of amusing to re-invent the wheel kind of thing, nothing more than curiosity and boredom ..
my profile doesn't say semi retired farmer, it says semi retarded, 

edit: if any one is interested in what I'm doing, here is the link to the MERG page with doc's and code... version12 about half way down the pge
http://www.merg.org.uk/merg_resources/dcc_download.php


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## gunrunnerjohn

I use DipTrace to create my PC boards, and I send them to Bay Area Circuits for fabrication. You can actually order them right out of the DipTrace PCB application, very handy. You can get about 20 sq/in of boards for $36 shipped. The only downside of the cheap boards is you can only get .062" thick boards. I make my tach readers and lighting power modules with .031 thickness once they go into production.


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## wvgca

I've been using Cadsoft Eagle for maybe eight or ten years now, it's pretty cheap and simple, with the add-on FSpice ...and a free add-on 3D viewer . nothing fancy or high end ..I still have a few hundred pounds of old pcb stock, mostly the 20x30 size, they have been sitting long enough that they are quite likely oxidized and have no value any more


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## gunrunnerjohn

I looked at Eagle, but their parts creation was a royal PITA, so I looks elsewhere. I like how DipTrace generates new parts, much easier to create them. DipTrace has a 3D viewer, but of course you need all the 3D models. I downloaded their 3D library, it is huge! When you create a new part, it's a PITA to create a new 3D image, one downfall. Truthfully, I don't really need the 3D viewer anyway, I usually already have a sample of the parts in hand and can figure out what it will look like.


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## wvgca

as of this morning, this has turned into a non viable project ..
while the decoder itself does work well, I was informed by Judi Rastall from MERG that they will not supply blank PCB's in the future ...
and , for myself; it's not worth it to design a new pcb, and get some made

but it was fun, and at least I can say that I made my own DCC loco decoder, unfortunately my bread board version is about the same size as the HO locomotive


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## gunrunnerjohn

Perhaps you'd post the details so someone else could make the boards.


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## wvgca

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Perhaps you'd post the details so someone else could make the boards.


sure, no problem at all 
the link to the MERG site [about halfway down] for the version 12 loco decoder
http://www.merg.org.uk/merg_resources/dcc_download.php

and the actual file attached here .. note: no netlists, etc ..source code, both asm and hex, schematic, and pdf pcb images for possible toner transfer usage

View attachment dec12-13.zip


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## gunrunnerjohn

I looked on that page, they have a ton of stuff there. Do they have any DCC decoders for higher currents? I see one for 2.5A, seems to be the biggest one.


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## wvgca

If you intend to 'roll your own' , it would be relatively easy at the schematic stage to substitute higher rated bridge diodes and mosfets ...and probably a good idea to update to more readily available components, after all the design as shown there is fifteen years old now


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## gunrunnerjohn

It's an interesting thought. The availability of the code is key, that would take a lot longer than doing the PCB design. I wish it were in C and not ASM...


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## wvgca

nope, in asm, but looks pretty straight forward ...
i like the way the bemf works on this one, very quick response
for o scale, you may even be able to use non smd, lots more room than ho
if it matters, i used an old batronix programmer that's probably as old as the code


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## gunrunnerjohn

I have the ICD3 that will program the parts, not a problem there. 

Sadly, I see a bunch of parts are EOL at the distributors, so there's more design work to be done before it could be produced.


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## wvgca

yes. old design based on then current components, however most can be readily substituted, even the pic, if memory serves the 16f882?? not sure .. just a guess ..
I wondered as to your curiosity about a ho decoder than can be gotten on ebay for twenty bucks, then i looked at the going rate for a four amp rated o scale decoder, better than three times that
there are a few different varieties of mobile decoders on the merg site, but didn't look to see if they were all based on that same pic, or series anyways .. i think only two with bemf and hi freq pwm for quiet running, better for can motors usually
checked upgrade, yes, 882, and half the price ..
for continuous four amp usage, may need those epoxy on heat sink stampings, but component cost should be very little more than for ho 1.5a rated ..
and non smd easier to glue together for short run,


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## gunrunnerjohn

I've been asked a few times about high current decoders, so I always keep my eyes open for possibilities.

I'd probably use mostly SMD parts anyway, things get pretty big quickly with thru-hole parts. I originally did my Super-Chuffer layout with thru-hole parts, the sucker was over twice the size and not practical for many locomotive upgrade projects. That's when I bit the bullet and went SMT.


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## ED-RRR

*Home Made [DCC] Decoder --> Programming..*

*[wvgca]:*
I do not wish to cross rails with you..
This is only a heads up to help you..
Please do “Not” put the cart before the horse..

There are several web sites showing how to build your own *[DCC]* control modules.. (Without Sound)..

*The NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) only uses CV #'s for [DCC] programming..
*
All *[DCC]* "Commercial" programming software programs comes with a "List" of:
--> [DCC] Manufactures..
----> [DCC] Manufactures Part Number..

*[wvgca]: Question #1*
How will you be able to "Program" this *[DCC]* locomotive control module
when "No" *[DCC]* "Commercial" programming software program will "Recognize" this "Unknown *[DCC]* decoder ??

*[wvgca]: Question #2*
I know that you are using the MRC *[DCC]* operating system..
It will require (x6) manual programming inputs:
- ADR
- SV
- ACC
- DEC
- TV
- CV 
Will you exactly know what these (x6) *[DCC]* manual programming inputs will be ??

*[wvgca]: Question #3*
There are also many individuals using Digitrax *[DCC]* that only uses "CV #'s" for *[DCC]* programming..
SoundTraxx also only uses "CV #'s" for *[DCC]* programming..
The NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) only uses CV #'s for *[DCC]* programming..
Will you be able to supply the required "CV #'s" for manual *[DCC]* programming ??
......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR , no problem, it's a valid question ..

the PIC used in this 'home made' decoder responds to CV value changes the same as any other decoder .. it has a built in translation table which can be readily viewed in the ASM file that comes in the MERG zip file ..[dec133a.asm]

here is a small 'snip' of the on board eprom
"CBLOCK	h'0' ; EEPROM addresses

PRIM_Addr	;CV1 = 0
V_Start	;CV2
ACC_Rate	;CV3
DEC_Rate	;CV4
V_High	;CV5
V_Mid ;CV6
; Version	;CV7 **** implemented as constants 
; ManId	;CV8
PWMTot	;CV9 = 6
EMFCut	;CV10
Packet_TO	;CV11 = 8 "

up to the 'as coded' CV67 ..
and the manufacturer ID and version are coded as constants, 

"; CV7 and CV8 implemented as constants to save EEPROM space
;
VERSION_VAL	equ	d'133'
MAN_ID_VAL	equ	d'13'
Version equ	h'F6'	; CV special mark (number -1)
ManId equ	h'F7' "

edit: easiest way to explain, is that any DCC control system doesn't actually check to see what brand of decoder directly, they just request a read of the value in CV8, which contains a manufacturer ID ..

what is especially interesting about the MERG approach of using a PIC, is that it supports serial programming on board, which means if you want to change any 'hard coded' information, such as how the MARS lights are implemented, you can actually do it yourself, compile the new code, and load it onto the PIC, which admittedly can probably be done with commercial decoders, but i don't see digitrax [or any other mfgr] giving a normal user access to the source code..

plus the fact that schematic is also included, which can give anyone the opportunity to modify as they wish [for example, current rating by changing final pass components]


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## ED-RRR

*Custom Made Decoder --> Required Programming..*



wvgca said:


> ED-RRR , no problem, it's a valid question ..
> .. easiest way to explain, is that any DCC control system doesn't actually check to see what brand of decoder directly,
> .. *they just request a read of the value in CV8, which contains a manufacturer ID ..*


*[wvgca]:* Question
Without the "Actual" CV8 value, which contains a manufacturer ID #,
how can an individual program this custom made *[DCC]* locomotive decoder using "Any" *[DCC] *programming system ??



wvgca said:


> *but i don't see digitrax [or any other mfgr]* giving a normal user access to the *source code..*


*[wvgca]:* Question
Then why did you even post a new "Thread" to build your own *[DCC]* locomotive decoder,
when you don't see "Digitrax" or any other "Manufacture" having an access to this decoder source ?? (Manufacturer ID #)..

*[wvgca]:* P.S.
I do apologize for my "Highlights" and "Colored" names,
that you do "Not" like posted in this "Forum" by me *[ED-RRR]..*
......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]:* Question
> Without the "Actual" CV8 value, which contains a manufacturer ID #,
> how can an individual program this custom made *[DCC]* locomotive decoder using "Any" *[DCC] *programming system ??
> 
> 
> 
> *[wvgca]:* Question
> Then why did you even post a new "Thread" to build your own *[DCC]* locomotive decoder,
> when you don't see "Digitrax" or any other "Manufacture" having an access to this decoder source ?? (Manufacturer ID #)..
> 
> *[wvgca]:* P.S.
> I do apologize for my "Highlights" and "Colored" names,
> that you do "Not" like posted in this "Forum" by me *[ED-RRR]..*
> ......


1st] you do NOT need a value in CV8 to program NMRA standard values , the programmer [or DCC controller] DOESN'T CARE ..

3nd] There is value for the MERG decoder for CV8, previously posted by me, and in the source

4th] there is also a value for CV7, again previously posted by me, and in the source, it's actually referred to as Version, not Model

5th] common sense, Digitrax or most others manufacturers do NOT release source code for their decoders, MERG does, plain and simple

6th] extraneous punctuation and pretty coloured text makes it harder for me to read and follow your train of though, very distracting, but kinda getting used to it..


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## wvgca

john, it just rained three inches tonight, a total of five inches in three days, and i can't do dick out on the farm ,,,
with current SMD components, and a four amp rating, any idea of projected price point and one year estimated quantity for a complete ready to go decoder?? ..


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## wvgca

I had spent some time on this decoder project lately, got new Eagle board files made with updated components, added code for some extra light features like flickering option, went with a total of four functions, bemf, and wiring out for keep alive connection .. found a guy in hong kong that says he has experience with DCC decoders, and can do the 'full monty' on these, complete, pcb, components, and stuffing for $12 US each, and is willing to do small lots ..so might have a ten pack in a few weeks, with free shipping included 
sweet


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'd be interested in contact info for the guy in Hong Kong, I might have some work for him.


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## fcwilt

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I looked at Eagle, but their parts creation was a royal PITA, so I looks elsewhere. I like how DipTrace generates new parts, much easier to create them.


I have not heard of DipTrace - I've been using Eagle which I started using when working with a friend on a project and that is what he used.

DipTrace does look good.

I will have to try it out.

Thanks.

Frederick


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## wvgca

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd be interested in contact info for the guy in Hong Kong, I might have some work for him.


I'm not quite sure about this guy as of yet ...poor english, but seemed confident, he sent a quote before he had even received the pcb, part, pick/place files .. and wanted full payment up front, so I send him $120 by paypal ...this morning I got an email from him with a tracking number, so the decoders are apparently done and shipped ... ?? seems to be a little 'too quick' ??


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## gunrunnerjohn

Interesting. If I can impose, could you email me some info on him once you get your order? He obviously is sitting on his hands waiting for work. I'm always in for a deal on assembly.

What design did you end up using for the decoder? Did you do a custom board or use one of the ones in the links you provided earlier? I'm just curious what parts and the US costs for them to compare to the assembly house I use now. I have to say, the guys I use have been super, but a buck in my pocket is more desirable than a buck in their pockets.


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## ED-RRR

*Totally Confused How This Forum Operates..*

I *[ED-RRR]* post actual "Facts" (That 4 Letter Word)..
Even some "Direct Communications" and help from Mark Gurries.. (NMRA DCC CLINIC).. 

*Questions:*
Why am I *[ED-RRR]* being constantly "Heckled":
- For stating (100%) proof "Facts" ??
- When I am posting information to help "Beginners" in this "Forum"..
- Have never taken "Any" credit when posting any "Technical Information"..
- Have "Always" shown where the "Technical Information" can be found..

*--> While <---*

*[wvgca]* can post a totally "Theoretical" project without any actual "Facts".. 

*[wvgca]* Curious: making my own DCC decoder
I had spent some time on this decoder project lately, got new Eagle board files made with updated components, 
added code for some extra light features like flickering option, went with a total of four functions, bemf, 
and wiring out for keep alive connection ..
found a guy in hong kong that says he has experience with DCC decoders, 
and can do the 'full monty' on these, complete, pcb, components, 
and stuffing for $12 US each, 
and is willing to do small lots ..
so might have a ten pack in a few weeks, with free shipping included sweet..

Before I retired *[ED-RRR]*, I was a manufacturing engineer "Building" AOG (Aircraft On Ground) passenger jet parts..
I also have experience in "Contracts Administration" doing price ($'s) product costs..
Unlike many others in this "Forum", I will "Not" heckle you..
*- But -*
I do have some very important "Questions" --> *[wvgca]..*

*Question: (#1)*
Why are you "Posting" a *[DCC]* decoder:
- That you do "Not" presently have.. 
- That you have "Not" fully "Tested" and "Programmed".. 
- Come's without the now “Standard” 8Pin, NEM652 connection..

*Question: (#2)*
Your "Wholesale" price is US $12.00 each.. (CAD $15.50).. 
You must consider "All" your operating costs ($'s).. (Time, Gas, Paper Work, Etc.).. 
What is will be your "Retail" price to the consumer ??

*Question: (#3)*
What "Warranty" will you be offering ??

*Shipping and Receiving: (Canada)*
My Actual shipping/receiving experiences.. (Over 500 Shipments Using Ebay).. (Requires Special Documents)..
- Almost "All" shipping from the "Far East" now takes a long time..
- You can "Only" ship to the "United States" using "Canada Post".. (No Brokerage Fees To US Buyer).. 
- Shipping to the "United States" can be also very costly ($'s) for the "US Buyer".. (Much More For Other Countries)..
- Even though there is "Available" shipping insurance, there is "No" shipping "Insurance" once the package "Leaves Canada"..

......


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## ED-RRR

*[wvgca]: Your Direct Competition --> (Only US $21.00)..*

Over (x6) weeks ago, the administrator of this "Forum" *[gunrunnerjohn]* blocked me *[ED-RRR]* from posting in this "Forum"..
Of course many of the "Hecklers" enjoyed this..

I was about to warn you "Not" to continue with your *[wvgca]* project, when *[gunrunnerjohn]* blocked me for (x5) weeks..
I asked *[gunrunnerjohn]* to "Un-Block" me so I could prevent you *[wvgca]* from making a big costly ($'s) mistake..
Of course *[gunrunnerjohn]* refused me [ED-RRR] and let you *[wvgca]* continue working on your project..

*[wvgca]: Who is your direct competition ??
--> ESU #53611 LokPilot*

Train World:
http://www.trainworld.com
ESU #53611 LokPilot
http://www.trainworld.com/manufactu...-per-nem652-wire-harness-4-amplified-outputs/

*ESU #53611 LokPilot*
- Standard *[DCC]*
- 8 pole plug per NEM652 wire harness
- 4 amplified outputs
- (N) and (HO) scale

*--> Only US $21.00*

*ESU #53611 LokPilot Standard [DCC] module..*
While our LokPilot V4.0 decoder without doubt meets the most extravagant requirements even of the most sophisticated experts, many modellers are looking for a robust, high quality DCC decoder for their standard requirements, which should also be easily affordable. 
You may stop searching right now: our new LokPilot Standard has been developed from scratch with the objective to provide an up-to-date decoder that meets most of the required functionality on the one hand while going easy on your wallet. 
We supply the LokPilot Standard in three versions: besides the version with the 8-pole NEM interface and the one with the 21MTC plug, the decoder will also be supplied as a particularly compact type with the PluX12 interface, if required. Thus the LokPilot Standard is not only suitable for H0 vehicles but also for locomotives in TT or N gauge. 
The most modern technology globally available has been built into the LokPilot Standard. Based on a 32 Bit CPU the LokPilot Standard is convincing due to its newly developed, excellent load control with high tact frequency and very good low speed characteristics, sensible configuration and outstanding value for money.
*Operating Modes:*
The LokPilot Standard is a first class DCC decoder. 14 - 128 speed steps simply go without saying as well as 2 and 4 digit addresses. Thanks to RailComPlus® the decoder automatically registers at a suitable command station (e.g. ECoS). It supports all DCC programming modes and can be operated and programmed with all DCC compatible digital command stations: thanks to RailCom® one can also read out CV values on the main with a suitable command station. Programming is particularly comfortable with the ESU LokProgrammer where see all parameters in plain text on your PC monitor.
*Motor Control:*
The output stage of the LokPilot Standard decoder generates 0.9A continuous current and easily handles all commonly available DC motors as well as coreless motors; regardless if the motor is by ROCO®, Fleischmann®, Tillig®, Piko®, Brawa®, Bemo®, Faulhaber® or Maxon®. Load control with 20 kHz PWM frequency assures quiet running and lets your locomotives crawl slowly over your layout if you wish them to do so. Load control can be adapted optimally to the particular type of motor by means of three CVs. Due to the simulated inertia the locomotive will not jerk, not even in 14 speed step mode.
*Analogue World:*
The LokPilot Standard can also be used on analogue DC layouts. Therefore the operational area of your locomotives may well be extended to “non-digital” layouts without any problems.
*Function Outputs:*
The LokPilot Standard decoder has four function outputs. The decoder with the 21MTC plug has two additional outputs without end stage, which can be utilised for controlling lighting and other functions in conjunction with a suitable adapter board (e.g. ESU 51968). All important lighting functions (e.g. blinking lights, Mars light, flashing light) are available and can be set just like the brightness of each output. The integral shunting mode assists you in delicate shunting manoeuvres in the yard, which is also enhanced by the option to turn off acceleration and deceleration with a function button. 
Thanks to a simplified method for “function mapping” similar to the method described in the NMRA standard all function outputs can easily be assigned to any function button (F0 to F20) according to your requirements.
*Protection:*
Of course, all function outputs as well as the motor output are protected against overload. We want you to enjoy the features of our decoders for as long as possible!
Future Proof:
The LokPilot Standard can be updated and, if necessary, new operating software can be uploaded with the aid of the ESU LokProgrammer. Thus your decoder always stays up to date, even after the purchase!








......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *Question: (#1)*
> Why are you "Posting" a *[DCC]* decoder:
> - That you do "Not" presently have..
> - That you have "Not" fully "Tested" and "Programmed"..
> - Come's without the now “Standard” 8Pin, NEM652 connection..
> 
> 
> What is will be your "Retail" price to the consumer ??
> What "Warranty" will you be offering ??
> ......


The decoder exists in breadboard form, and did receive rudimentary testing, 651 / 652/ NEMA connectors are easily added if I decide to..

As far as I recall, there was no mention of reselling these as a consumer unit .. retail price and warranty is not applicable, these are solely for my own curiosity and amusement ..
the only mention of resale was in a comment to GRJ for 4A rated versions for his interest / application


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## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> I was about to warn you "Not" to continue with your *[wvgca]* project, when *[gunrunnerjohn]* blocked me for (x5) weeks..
> I asked *[gunrunnerjohn]* to "Un-Block" me so I could prevent you *[wvgca]* from making a big costly ($'s) mistake..
> Of course *[gunrunnerjohn]* refused me [ED-RRR] and let you *[wvgca]* continue working on your project..


Are you the Profit Police? 

Do you really have the power to stop someone from working on a hobby project? I didn't see anywhere that selling them or getting rich was part of his project. Maybe he's doing it for the learning experience. I get the distinct impression that he's intelligent enough to make his own judgments about his projects, he really doesn't need someone to tell him he can't do it.


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> Unlike many others in this "Forum", I will "Not" heckle you..


I have thick skin, all is good


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## ED-RRR

*[wvgca]: Curious Making My Own DCC Decoder..*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Are you the Profit Police?
> Do you really have the power to stop someone from working on a hobby project?


*Answer:*
I will "Never" attack anyone from doing their "Own" hobby project.. (Proven & Tested Projects).. 
*- But -*
Why is *[wvgca]* posting a "Thread" only regarding *[DCC] *decoders that he *"Alone" *can purchase ??



wvgca said:


> The decoder exists in breadboard form, and did receive rudimentary testing, 651 / 652/ NEMA connectors are easily added if I decide to..


*[wvgca]: Question:*
Why would you even think of "Only" posting --> Making My Own DCC Decoder ??
- When -
Other *[DCC]* users can "Not" even purchase this *[DCC]* decoder from you *[wvgca]* ??



wvgca said:


> As far as I recall, there was no mention of reselling these as a consumer unit ..
> retail price and warranty is not applicable, these are solely for my own curiosity and amusement ..
> *the only mention of resale was in a comment* to GRJ for 4A rated versions for his interest / application


*[gunrunnerjohn]: Question: (#1)*
*[wvgca]:* "no mention of reselling"..
Why would you *[gunrunnerjohn]* post the "Only" mention of "Re-Sale" of this *[DCC]* module ??

*[gunrunnerjohn]: Question: (#2)*
Why would you *[gunrunnerjohn] *allow to post a "Thread" that "Only" applies to *[wvgca]* personal "Private Usage" ??
Posting a *[DCC]* decoder that “Can Not” be used for other “Members” in this “Forum”..
......

*P.S. *
I am also quite sure that *[wvgca]* and *[gunrunnerjohn]* do "Not" approve of 
my *[ED-RRR] *"High Lighted" and "Colored" important posted information..
.......


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]: Question:*
> Why would you even think of "Only" posting --> Making My Own DCC Decoder ??
> - When -
> Other *[DCC]* users can "Not" even purchase this *[DCC]* decoder from you *[wvgca]* ??
> ...........


because that's the title of this thread .. making my OWN ..
the source is linked, and anyone can do the same if they wish ??
You actually want to buy one of these 'homemade' decoders for yourself?? gee, I'm flattered


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## fcwilt

ER-RRR:

So someone shouldn't post about, say, a layout they are building because it is not for sale and only available to them?



I've posted about projects that I am working on just in case anyone else might find them interesting.

And I enjoy hearing about what others are working on.

The decoder project the wvgca is working on is of interest to me and I NEVER, EVER considered that he was planning on trying to sell any.

I simply don't understand your reaction.

Frederick


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> Why is *[wvgca]* posting a "Thread" only regarding *[DCC] *decoders that he *"Alone" *can purchase ??
> .......


As I mentioned before, all pertinent links are quite clearly indicated, and anyone with an interest can readily duplicate the work that I have done by simply updating the components and creating a PCB layout ..or use the one supplied by MERG, not rocket science, but not many have that same interest.. 

But the final resulting new PCB layout design is mine, and is my property, and it's my choice whether to release it or not ,


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## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]: Question:*
> Why would you even think of "Only" posting --> Making My Own DCC Decoder ??
> - When -
> Other *[DCC]* users can "Not" even purchase this *[DCC]* decoder from you *[wvgca]* ??


Ed, final warning. You are NOT the topic police here. Cease and desist! You're so fond of complaining about people crapping on your threads, but that's exactly what you're doing to this thread.

There's absolutely nothing in the MTF Rules that say any technical posting has to be something that interests you or is offered for sale. Many of us find the topic interesting, if it bothers you this much, simply pass it by. As pointed out, many people post about projects they're doing that certainly will never be for sale, myself included!

Please, just give it a rest.


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## wvgca

ED-RRR ... you're very curious about my implementation of the MERG public domain 'home made' decoder, and although there was no intent on my part to resell or otherwise, I did wind up ordering ten as a minimum order ...
So if you really want to play with this, I can GIVE you one?, when they show up...


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## gunrunnerjohn

Wait a minute! You're going to charge me and give Ed one free? 

Of course, he probably needs it more than me anyway.


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## wvgca

here is another home made decoder, uses a PIC and an Op Amp, ridiculously cheap, maybe three dollars for the parts, credits are in the ASM source, even has PWM and perfboard layout, no pcb required, basic CV's, drawback is 700ma rating, no functions

View attachment DIY Motor Decoder V0.01 (Beta 1).zip









*image from zip file


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## ED-RRR

*[wvgca] DCC Decoder.. (Home Made Decoder)..*

I *[ED-RRR]* must be very (very) carful how I post actual facts,
or *[gunrunnerjohn]* will delete my posting or block me again from posting..

*[wvgca]:* *My Apologies..*
I am quite sure that many other readers (1,030 +) like myself,
do "Not" realize that you are "Only" making your own *[DCC]* decoder's.. 
- Not For Re-Sale..
- No Schematic Drawings..

*[wvgca]:*
Your basic *[DCC]* MRC hand throttle can program a "Home Made" *[DCC]* decoder with minimum requirements..
It will "Only" require (x6) manual programming inputs:
- ADR
- SV
- ACC
- DEC
- TV
- CV 

*[wvgca]:*
You even offered to GIVE me one of your *[DCC]* decoders..
Sorry, but it will "Not" function with my operating *[DCC]* system.. 
I use DCC Specialties "Power Pax" programming booster and Freiwald Software "Train Programmer".. (Advanced Software)..
The "Software" requires a *"Manufacturing #"*..









Using "Digitrax" and "JMRI Software" will also require special required added "Software" and "Hardware".. 
Hardware Support: Connecting to a Digitrax PR3 (Xtra)..
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/loconet/PR3.shtml









I only spent expensive ($'s) for the best "Locomotives" and *[DCC]* "Sound Decoders"..
*Example:*
Proto 2000 Heritage Steam Locomotive USRA 2-8-8-2.. (Not Actual Prototype)..
Tsunami Digital Sound Decoder (TSU-1000 Heavy Steam).. (SoundTraxx)..









......


----------



## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> I am quite sure that many other readers (1,030 +) like myself,
> do "Not" realize that you are "Only" making your own *[DCC]* decoder's..
> - Not For Re-Sale..
> - No Schematic Drawings..
> 
> *[wvgca]:*
> You even offered to GIVE me one of your *[DCC]* decoders..
> Sorry, but it will "Not" function with my operating *[DCC]* system..
> I use DCC Specialties "Power Pax" programming booster and Freiwald Software "Train Programmer".. (Advanced Software)..
> The "Software" requires a *"Manufacturing #"*..
> 
> I only spent expensive ($'s) for the best "Locomotives" and *[DCC]* "Sound Decoders"..
> ......


True on the resale part, just my own curiosity and amusement ..

The schematics are openly listed on the MERG site, and are free for any one to see, the link is clearly indicated in post #3 in this thread .. 

As far as manufacturer ID is concerned, I replied to that in post #18 in this thread, and advised you that the ID and Version] are hard coded in the ASM source, ID 13, [Public Domain & Do-It-Yourself Decoders, Version 133 to identify design as initially made by MERG], I didn't change that as I had only made very small changes to their source code, majority is 'as coded' by MERG contrbutors.

I updated some components to newer [and smaller] versions when I did the board layout, final PCB size is just under 0.6" x 0.4", pretty tiny, about finger nail size, to possibly fit my small geared steamers

I had never implied that this decoder is "the best", just that the final implemented PCB design is my own. The offer is still open to give you one to play with ., can't do much better than that?.


----------



## ED-RRR

*"Curiosity" and "Amusement".. (Only)..*



wvgca said:


> True on the resale part, just my own curiosity and amusement ..


*[wvgca]:*
So you "Never" intended to "Re-Sale" your *[DCC]* module, as previously posted..
There will be many *[DCC] *programming problems as (Previously Stated Facts) for your "Home Made Decoder".. 

*[wvgca]:* *Question:*
Why would you post a "Thread", just for your own "Curiosity" and "Amusement" ??

I am quite sure that *[gunrunnerjohn]* and *[fcwilt]* are presently reading "Postings" in this "Thread".. 









So it is "Totally" A.O.K. to post a "Thread" in this "Forum",
when it comes to (Only) "Curiosity" and "Amusement",
and in "No" way will help anyone else requiring new *[DCC] *information !!
......


----------



## fcwilt

ED-RRR said:


> programming problems for your "Home Made Decoder".


Could you please elaborate on what problems will occur?



ED-RRR said:


> So it is "Totally" A.O.K. to post a "Thread" in this "Forum",
> when it comes to (Only) "Curiosity" and "Amusement"...


Yes it is.

And learning that there is a site MERG with all kinds of DCC related stuff is new "DCC information" for me.

Frederick


----------



## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *[wvgca]:*
> So you "Never" intended to "Re-Sale" your *[DCC]* module, as previously posted..
> 
> *[wvgca]:* *Question:*
> Why would you post a "Thread", just for your own "Curiosity" and "Amusement" ??
> 
> So it is "Totally" A.O.K. to post a "Thread" in this "Forum",
> when it comes to (Only) "Curiosity" and "Amusement",
> and in "No" way will help anyone else requiring new *[DCC] *information !!
> ......


Uh.. no resale, not sure where I had 'previously posted' that I was making these decoders for resale ..if you could, please indicate which post number?

Yes, this project was for personal "Curiosity" and "Amusement", nothing more , I just shared my sources, and intents, and will share photos of the end result ..

And the original source is not new at all, but I 'assume' this thread is okay, no warnings, it's still on topic [kind of], not closed [well, so far any ways].. 

I realize that not many will have interest in this topic / thread, so they can read these posts if they wish to or not, but some do apparently from the number of views


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> So it is "Totally" A.O.K. to post a "Thread" in this "Forum", when it comes to (Only) "Curiosity" and "Amusement", and in "No" way will help anyone else requiring new *[DCC] *information !!
> ......


Lots of the forum posts are probably classified that way. Like I said before, you're so fond of quoting the rules, please quote the one that says this is not allowed.

It's pretty pompous of you to assume this topic will have no interest or utility to anyone reading here. Do you really speak for all the people on the planet that run DCC? As the king of copy-n-paste, are you really that all-knowing that you can speak for all our readers? There is more to the world than simply buying a decoder and plopping it into your locomotive. Some here actually would like to know more about the bits and bytes that go into how the decoder works. 

Since this topic clearly has no value to you, why do you continue to post in it?


----------



## Bwells

Deleted


----------



## Mark R.

It was amusing at first, now it's downright annoying and condescending ....

:banplz:

Mark.


----------



## Bwells

Sorry wvgca, I did not mean to hijack this thread but I couldn't help it. I think I speak for Mark as well. Once again, my apologies.


----------



## wvgca

Bwells said:


> Sorry wvgca, I did not mean to hijack this thread but I couldn't help it. I think I speak for Mark as well. Once again, my apologies.


Don't be concerned ...
If this stays close to topic, it's good ...
If it makes me smile, it's good ..
The above opinions don't necessarily need to correlate //


----------



## ED-RRR

*Making My Own [DCC] Decoder.. (My Own Private Project)..*

*[wvgca]: Post #33..*


wvgca said:


> because that's the title of this thread .. *making my OWN* ..
> the source is linked, and anyone can do the same if they wish ??


*[wvgca]: Post #35..*


wvgca said:


> As I mentioned before, all pertinent links are quite clearly indicated,
> and anyone with an interest can readily duplicate the work that I have done by simply updating the components and creating a PCB layout ..
> or use the one supplied by MERG, not rocket science, but not many have that same interest..
> 
> *But the final resulting new PCB layout design is mine,
> and is my property,
> and it's my choice whether to release it or not ,*


*[wvgca]: Post #39..*


wvgca said:


> here is *another home made decoder*, uses a PIC and an Op Amp, ridiculously cheap, maybe three dollars for the parts,
> credits are in the *ASM source*, even has PWM and perfboard layout, no pcb required, basic CV's, drawback is 700ma rating, no functions


*Special Note:*
*[wvgca] *did he "Not" mention what an "ASM Source" is.. 
ASM is to write a Java source file that is equivalent to what you want to generate and then use the ASMifier mode of the Bytecode..

*[wvgca]:* "Another Home Made Decoder.. 
--> Not his own designed/purchased --> *[DCC]* decoders..









*Originally Posted by ED-RRR
--> Programming problems for your "Home Made Decoder".*



fcwilt said:


> Could you please elaborate on what problems will occur?


You *[fcwilt]* and myself *[ED-RRR]* use TrainProgrammer from Freiwald Software..
This programming software and others use a "Manufacturing Code" (#'s") for software updates,
so the programming software can "Read" and "Alter" the correct CV #'s..

*[fcwilt]:* Question ??
Why are you asking me how to *[DCC]* program making your own *[DCC]* locomotive decoder,
when this "Thread" is a *[wvgca]* project ??
Why don't you ask *[wvgca]* if a special "Firmware Software" is required to *[DCC]* program a "Home Made" *[DCC]* decoder ??
......


----------



## ED-RRR

*gunrunnerjohn - Forum Administrator..*

There are presently (1,312 +) viewers in this "Thread" looking for "Help"..



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Lots of the forum posts are probably classified that way.


But why is *[wvgca]* posting in his *"Thread"* in this type of manor ?? 



wvgca said:


> True on the resale part, *just my own curiosity and amusement *..


--> Just for his own *"Curiosity" and "Amusement"*.. (Not For Re-Sale)..



wvgca said:


> But the final resulting new *PCB layout design is mine*,
> and is *my property, *
> and it's my choice whether to release it or not ,


--> Did "Not" release his "Designed" *[DCC]* circuit board "Schematics".. (Why ??)..
--> Is not "Model Train Forum" here to "Help" others ??



gunrunnerjohn said:


> Since this topic clearly has no value to you, why do you continue to post in it?


--> Why did *[wvgca]* "Not" release his own designed *[DCC]* locomotive circuit board ??
--> How can an individual design and build their own *[DCC]* locomotive decoder, without any "Electronics Experience" ??
--> Why not just purchase a N.M.R.A. "Approved" *[DCC] *locomotive decoder from ESU #53611 LokPilot for only *US $21.00* = (Posting #28)..









......


----------



## time warp

It's not 1300+ viewers looking for help, that's the view count. How many times the thread has been viewed.
We all learn something from these, or any other posts. The content will move around some , and often the " meat" of a thread like this will shift somewhat from the OP topic.
That's why one should encourage open exchange of ideas during a DISCUSSION.


----------



## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *There will be many [DCC] programming problems as (Previously Stated Facts) for your "Home Made Decoder"..
> *


as previously stated by you, unfortunately NOT facts , and not proven by any stretch.of the imagination.



ED-RRR said:


> *Special Note:*
> *[wvgca] *did he "Not" mention what an "ASM Source" is..
> ASM is to write a Java source file that is equivalent to what you want to generate and then use the ASMifier mode of the Bytecode..
> ......


I was curious to see what you would come up with next, and I was actually amazed.. 
This 'fact' of yours is so far away from reality that it's downright ridiculous ...

Apologies for taking so long to reply, I was laughing so hard that I couldn't even type .. This is about as much 
fun as a consenting adult can have while still keeping their clothes on. ...Thanks for the post, It was definitely 
the amusement highlight of my day...


----------



## CTValleyRR

time warp said:


> It's not 1300+ viewers looking for help, that's the view count. How many times the thread has been viewed.


And not even "unique" views, just the number of times someone navigated to the thread, even accidentally. I tried explaining this to him many times when he was trying to pat himself on the back for how important he was to the forum. You can add this to the many "facts" he is incapable of assimilating.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> *Special Note:*
> *[wvgca] *did he "Not" mention what an "ASM Source" is..
> ASM is to write a Java source file that is equivalent to what you want to generate and then use the ASMifier mode of the Bytecode..


WOW! Where in the world did you come up with this line of reasoning? Where was JAVA mentioned, I must have missed it! When I write in assembler, and I'm assuming that *wvgca* does something similar, I simply write it in assembler! Writing something in a high level language and then trying to use the ASM generated code is an exercise in futility, have you ever actually looked at the generated code from a high level language? If you're writing in the high level language already, why in the world would you bother with the ASM generated code? When I write in C/C++, I work in the high level language. I have occasionally looked at the generated code to see how something is handled by the compiler, but those moments are few and far between.

It seems crystal clear that you have little to no experience actually doing software coding in any language, so it escapes me why you'd choose to single that out and make such an inane comment!


----------



## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> But why is *[wvgca]* posting in his *"Thread"* in this type of manor ??
> 
> **actually, I'm posting from a type of bungalow**
> 
> --> Did "Not" release his "Designed" *[DCC]* circuit board "Schematics".. (Why ??)..
> 
> **Not my schematic design, I was too lazy to cut'n'paste, and I guess you were too lazy to follow the link**
> 
> --> Why did *[wvgca]* "Not" release his own designed *[DCC]* locomotive circuit board ??
> 
> **If you mean the actual PCB layout design, that's mine**
> 
> --> How can an individual design and build their own *[DCC]* locomotive decoder, without any "Electronics Experience" ??
> 
> **Probably can't, no way around that**
> 
> ......


enjoy


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Don't be so negative *wvgca*, a few years of engineering school and a couple of years on the job, and he'll be ready to design his own.


----------



## fcwilt

ED-RRR said:


> This programming software and others use a "Manufacturing Code" (#'s") for software updates,
> so the programming software can "Read" and "Alter" the correct CV #'s..


The Manufacture and Version CVs are not essential for decoder programmers.

Frederick


----------



## wvgca

fcwilt said:


> The Manufacture and Version CVs are not essential for decoder programmers.
> 
> Frederick


good point, and very true .. especially for the basic set of CV's .. in most cases the programmer doesn't care who made the target, most DCC standard systems will take whatever CV number & value, and send it out to the target loco number, they actually don't have the on board intelligence to know whether that combination is valid for the target decoder ..

However, where a mfg ID does come on handy is, for example, the JMRI Decoder Pro, a read of CV8, and CV7, will enable JMRI to read valid CV numbers from it's internal table, and also default CV values ... It's much easier to program a decoder when you have an idea of which CV's are supported and which ones are not recognized by each individual target decoder variation and manufacturer .. 

And there are other 'programming' combinations that benefit from knowing valid CV numbers and values, the Arduino set is another, and there are many more, with the JMRI set being one of the more commonly used sets, not only for it's cost [free], but also it's functionality 

I try to keep the paper reference notes that come with normal new decoders , but usually forget where I put them //


----------



## wvgca

This will be the second target for the new decoder, and is primarily the reason I added a 'flicker' light option to the MERG code, just for the firebox on this one ...

It's a Kumata / NJ Brass G-53SD originally painted for the LIRR, basically stock with a NCE D13SRJ decoder , led head and tail lights, Kadee's, and 'both sides' tender power pickup ..

The first target will probably be an old Athearn switcher, just to make sure the 'magic smoke' doesn't ooze out ..


----------



## fcwilt

wvgca said:


> However, where a mfg ID does come on handy is, for example, the JMRI Decoder Pro, a read of CV8, and CV7, will enable JMRI to read valid CV numbers from it's internal table, and also default CV values
> I try to keep the paper reference notes that come with normal new decoders , but usually forget where I put them //


Yes I am aware of this feature but I still check the manufacture's data first.

The folks at JMRI work hard but they make mistakes.

Frederick


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I look forward to seeing it in operation.


----------



## ED-RRR

*Previous Quotes.. (Blind Leading The Blind)..*



time warp said:


> It's not 1300+ viewers looking for help, that's the view count. How many times the thread has been viewed.


Yes, I stand Corrected..
Yes there are 1,300 + "Repeated Viewers" in this "Thread"
*- But- *
Why is there "Only" (x6) postings from ??
*[wvgca]* *[gunrunnerjohn]* *[ED-RRR] **[fcwilt]* *[time warp] **[CTValleyRR] *
Today there must be 1,560 + "Repeated Viewers" in this "Thread"..
Who are the "Other Viewers" ??



wvgca said:


> as previously stated by you, unfortunately NOT facts , and not proven by any stretch.of the imagination.


Why has *[wvgca]* posted a "Thread" for (just my own curiosity and amusement) ??
Why has *[wvgca]* "Not" posted his own "Designed" *[DCC]* decoder ??



gunrunnerjohn said:


> WOW! Where in the world did you come up with this line of reasoning? Where was *JAVA mentioned*,





ED-RRR said:


> *Special Note:*
> *[wvgca] *did he "Not" mention what an "*ASM Source"* is..
> *ASM *is to write a *Java source* file that is equivalent to what you want to generate and then use the ASMifier mode of the Bytecode..


*[wvgca]* did "Not" mention that he uses the Basic MRC Hand Throttle"..
It does "Not" require "Programming Software" to program his [DCC] --> "Making My Own [DCC] Decoder".. 
It will "Only" requires (x6) manual programming inputs from the MRC hand throttle:
- ADR - SV - ACC - DEC - TV - CV 











fcwilt said:


> Yes I am aware of this feature but I still check the manufacture's data first.
> The folks at JMRI work hard but they make mistakes.


*Question: #1*
Will you be able to "Correctly" program a (Making My Own *[DCC]* Decoder) using "Programming Software ??"
......


----------



## ED-RRR

*Simple Basic Question ??*

Has this "Thread" Making My Own [DCC] Decoder.. (My Own --> Private Hidden Project)..
from *[wvgca]*

Actually *"Help"* any other individuals in the "Forum" ??
......


----------



## gregc

yes. I find these types of threads interesting. I like building my own circuits.


----------



## fcwilt

ED-RRR said:


> Will you be able to "Correctly" program a (Making My Own *[DCC]* Decoder) using "Programming Software ??"
> ......


Yes you will.

Frederick


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

ED-RRR said:


> Has this "Thread" Making My Own [DCC] Decoder.. (My Own --> Private Hidden Project)..
> from *[wvgca]*
> 
> Actually *"Help"* any other individuals in the "Forum" ??
> ......


I'm getting tired of your carping, you're contributing nothing to the thread. Give it a rest, the thread doesn't break any rules, and clearly some of us find it interesting.


ED-RRR said:


> Today there must be 1,560 + "Repeated Viewers" in this "Thread"..
> Who are the "Other Viewers" ??


What's it to you, you writing a book? Leave that chapter out and make it a mystery. If they wanted to be visible to you, they'd probably post!


> Why has *[wvgca]* posted a "Thread" for (just my own curiosity and amusement) ??
> Why has *[wvgca]* "Not" posted his own "Designed" *[DCC]* decoder ??


Why do you care? You have, in your continuing diatribes, stated that you're not interested in this project and consider it a waste of time. So, what is your obsession of continuing to pick at what is being discussed here?

_*Perhaps I'm not being clear enough for you. Maybe you'll see the light if it's in color. If you don't have something constructive to say, don't say anything! You're getting on everyone's nerves, and I'm tired of dealing with problem reports by users due to your silly replies!*_


----------



## Mark R.

gunrunnerjohn said:


> .... *You're getting on everyone's nerves, and I'm tired of dealing with problem reports by users due to your silly replies!*


Simple cure for that ....

Mark.


----------



## wvgca

got the decoders in the mail today ...
just waiting for a new quick clip adapter for that size of pic so that i can verify code load..


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Lookin' good, looking forward to test reports.


----------



## wvgca

gununnerjohn .. a question for you ..
what do you do when you only want / need one or two pcb's [single sided]
I don't care much for perfboard or protoboard, and currently am still using the mylar film / develop / etch method, but it's time consuming .. 
just wondering if there is a faster method without going to pcb milling .. considered using my little laser to do first step, but very little time savings, if any, and don't have a UV laser anyways
thanks


----------



## Lemonhawk

Perf board is really messy, at least when I use it! Long ago I used wire wrap, but that was before I ever needed anything small in size. I'm listening to what grj comes up with. I suspect he used a PCB maker and is all set up to do it quickly and just throws away all the extras he does not use. If I could find my Unimate I could see milling simple boards, but its been missing and I have no idea where I put it.


----------



## wvgca

I still wire wrap some, but occasions are seldom ..
The Unimate is a pretty pricey alternative, especially once you add CNC to it , and as far as I know the working envelope is fairly small ?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

wvgca said:


> gununnerjohn .. a question for you ..
> what do you do when you only want / need one or two pcb's [single sided]
> I don't care much for perfboard or protoboard, and currently am still using the mylar film / develop / etch method, but it's time consuming ..
> just wondering if there is a faster method without going to pcb milling .. considered using my little laser to do first step, but very little time savings, if any, and don't have a UV laser anyways
> thanks


I looked at various home brew circuit board solutions, even tried them in the past. None were satisfactory, at least to me, and the quality varied all over the map. They all took a lot more work and time than it's worth. Since I can have 20sq/in of quality .062 FR-4 double-sided boards with silk-screen and solder-mask both sides for $36 shipped, I don't consider fooling around with home-brew any more. I've seen PCB places that will do two or three boards even cheaper, but so far I haven't tried any of them.


----------



## wvgca

I looked at the Bay Area Circuits web site, they have a student special but I'm not a registered student .. and $36US is about $48CDN right now ...
It's just that most of the time I only need one or two ..and don't really need silkscreen or solder mask ..


----------



## Lemonhawk

The unimate is even more pricier considering that I can't find it. I have a room full of stuff that I can't get access to easily and I'm hoping its still in there.


----------



## wvgca

I looked around a little bit last night, so far a site allpcb.com can do bare boards [50 qty] for as low as 0.30 a square inch ..
but that doesn't solve the one / two pcb question, so I figured I may as well make a PCB Route / Mill ... 80/20 is around $2.50 /ft for 20-20 size aluminum stock, plus $1.95 for each nice square cut, so maybe seven feet [$30, and maybe $20 for nice fasteners, and shaft blocks.. a 5"x6" table maybe, and have lots of real small steppers, but no small drivers ... I do have a couple of Arduino Uno/R3, and some two channel stepper driver board, but those may not be easily stackable, power supply, well, will check the spare parts pile ...
Only thing is that I've never done a CNC table this _small_ before


----------



## fcwilt

wvgca said:


> I looked around a little bit last night, so far a site allpcb.com can do bare boards [50 qty] for as low as 0.30 a square inch ..
> but that doesn't solve the one / two pcb question, so I figured I may as well make a PCB Route / Mill ... 80/20 is around $2.50 /ft for 20-20 size aluminum stock, plus $1.95 for each nice square cut, so maybe seven feet [$30, and maybe $20 for nice fasteners, and shaft blocks.. a 5"x6" table maybe, and have lots of real small steppers, but no small drivers ... I do have a couple of Arduino Uno/R3, and some two channel stepper driver board, but those may not be easily stackable, power supply, well, will check the spare parts pile ...
> Only thing is that I've never done a CNC table this _small_ before


Ever bought anything from these folks:

https://www.servocity.com/

Frederick


----------



## wvgca

fcwilt said:


> Ever bought anything from these folks:
> 
> https://www.servocity.com/
> 
> Frederick


 I hadn't heard of them until now ... went and checked the site, they have similar aluminum extrusions, around $3 /ft .. but will probably go with 80/20, I like the look of the two notched / two smooth sides a little better, plus I can get nice square cuts to the length I want from 80/20 ..

But I do want to wander the servocity site later, drivers maybe for the Arduino, rubber mounting feet, other small stuff .. will probably get stainless shaft & screws, and bronze oil impregnated bushings from McMaster-Carr

thanks for the link


----------



## ED-RRR

*(#1) --> School Time For "All" Of Us "Armatures" in [DCC] Lighting & Sound..*

I allowed a day breather for the "Same" individuals to post incorrect information and attack me personally..

On the "Internet" and this "Forum" I received many "Different" conflicting information regarding [DCC] "Capacitors"..
Different types of "Series" and "Parallel" capacitor connections..

That is why I directly contacted by (E-Mail) Mark Gurries (NMRA DCC Clinic) and his friend David Parks (Electrical Engineer)..
If you are "Challenging" any of the next posted information, it's "Not" mine [ED-RR] but from actual [DCC] "Engineers"..
Using "Copy-N-Paste" to prove without a doubt who actually knows what they are "Talking" about in this "Thread"..

*Mark Gurries sent me to this website..*
http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120729061658/http:/www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

*(#1) Tsunami TSU-750: (SoundTraxx)..*








*Special Note:*
This wiring schematic "Only" applies to the Tsunami TSU-750 SoundTraxx [DCC] "Sound" decoder, 
that has a special "Green & Yellow" wire 
coming from the decoder..
Warning:
"No" other [DCC] "Sound" decoder, has this special "Green & Yellow" wire coming from the decoder..

*Tsunami TSU-750..*
--> MOTOR Stay Alive = BLUE and YELLOW/GREEN wires..
Actual Quote:
On top of the normal 9 wires on a TSU-750 for the motor, lights and speaker, there is a YELLOW/GREEN wire that is connected to the NEGATIVE of the decoder’s Bridge Rectifier.
Connecting the supplied 220 uF 25 Volt capacitor to these two wires will provide MOTOR Stay Alive.
If using the 220 uF capacitor, a major portion of the Stay Alive will go to the motor, sound resets may not be eliminated. 
I suggest using the largest value capacitor that will fit in your particular loco and wire up with a 100 Ohm resistor and a Diode. 

===========================================================================

Manufactured [DCC] "Sound" decoders with only a (Stay Alive) "Speaker Capacitor".. 
- Digitrax Definition = Sound Hold Up
http://www.digitrax.com/products/sound-decoders/sdxh166d/
- TCS Definition = Keep Alive
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/WOWSound/index.php
- SoundTraxx Definition = Replacement Capacitor 810128
http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/wiring.php

===========================================================================

*Mark Gurries (NMRA DCC Clinic) --> Speaker Capacitor*
Actual Quotes:
*(#1)*
Audio Coupling (or DC blocking) capacitor. 
This is capacitor is small with a value under 100uF that is wired in series with the speaker.
This capacitor has nothing to do with keeping sound alive. 
It exist due to the design limitations of the specific type of audio amp used at the time. 
Today all modern decoders do not need this DC blocking capacitor. It's gone.
*(#2) *
Sound only capacitor. Standard capacitors with a value of 1000uF or less. 
It is only connected to the audio system to keep the sound running when dealing with poor electrical power track pickup. 
Lower cost solution to keeping the sound.
*(#3)*
There is *no easy way to add a "sound only stay alive capacitor" to a decoder *that never had one.
The connection you need is not easily accessible.

You "Must" go to this website and actually "Read" each written "Document"..
http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120729061658/http:/www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

Normal Operation – Charging the Red & Black wire “included” Stay Alive capacitor.








A Power Interruption with the Red & Black wire “included” Stay Alive Capacitor.








A Power Interruption with the Stay Alive Capacitor connected to the BLUE wire & BLACK Capacitor wire.







......


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## time warp

A-HA! Gotcha ED! Mark's quote #1 YOU Just posted repeats EXACTLY what several people on this forum tried to tell you for weeks!


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## wvgca

ED-RRR said:


> *(#1) --> School Time For "All" Of Us "Armatures" in [DCC] Lighting & Sound..*
> I allowed a day breather for the "Same" individuals to post incorrect information and attack me personally..
> 
> On the "Internet" and this "Forum" I received many "Different" conflicting information regarding [DCC] "Capacitors"..
> Different types of "Series" and "Parallel" capacitor connections..
> 
> That is why I directly contacted by (E-Mail) Mark Gurries (NMRA DCC Clinic) and his friend David Parks (Electrical Engineer)..
> If you are "Challenging" any of the next posted information, it's "Not" mine [ED-RR] but from actual [DCC] "Engineers"..
> Using "Copy-N-Paste" to prove without a doubt who actually knows what they are "Talking" about in this "Thread"..


Your post has no relevance to this thread, zero, zip, nada, SweetFA, but I guess it keeps you busy?,


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## CTValleyRR

ED-RRR said:


> I allowed a day breather for the "Same" individuals to post incorrect information and attack me personally..


Too bad. That day would have been better spent learning manners and etiquette. 

A little electronics knowledge wouldn't hurt either.

But seriously, why did you have to go and pollute wvcga's thread with your irrelevant BS? Do you have no sense of decency?


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## time warp

Because, he's a thrED RRRecker!


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## CTValleyRR

ED-RRR said:


> That is why I directly contacted by (E-Mail) Mark Gurries (NMRA DCC Clinic) and his friend David Parks (Electrical Engineer)..
> If you are "Challenging" any of the next posted information, it's "Not" mine [ED-RR] but from actual [DCC] "Engineers"..
> Using "Copy-N-Paste" to prove without a doubt who actually knows what they are "Talking" about in this "Thread"..


See, this is what I just can't wrap my head around. No one is challenging the technical accuracy of what you posted.

The relevance of the information, and your complete lack of anything resembling tact or decency in posting it, is totally the issue. You persist in your inability to follow a thread. Rather than discuss what you've already posted, you just keep throwing out more and more information, much of which is only marginally related to the discussion in progress, and not always accurate. 

And BTW, timewarp is right. You should actually read, or better, understand what you are posting. This latest post contradicts what you said in the "Keep Alive" thread.


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## Mark R.

I'm not a name dropper (unlike someone else here), but I too know Mark Gurries. I was talking to him last night, and he has no idea who Ed is ! He mentioned a number of "Eds" he has corresponded with and none of them were "our" Ed. 

Mark.


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## CTValleyRR

Mark R. said:


> I'm not a name dropper (unlike someone else here), but I too know Mark Gurries. I was talking to him last night, and he has no idea who Ed is ! He mentioned a number of "Eds" he has corresponded with and none of them were "our" Ed.
> 
> Mark.


Well, that pretty much checks out with the personality traits ED has been displaying lately -- lying and after-the-fact editing of incorrect threads.


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## Mark R.

*"School Time For "All" Of Us "Armatures" ....*

Armatures ? Are we back to talking motors again ? ....

Mark.


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## time warp

I'm gonna leave it alone, CT. I've got more respect for Warrens thread than I do for ED's crap.


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## wvgca

time warp said:


> I'm gonna leave it alone, CT. I've got more respect for Warrens thread than I do for ED's crap.



I rate amusement value only slightly lower than technical value .. 
Don't worry, as near as I can tell, my 'skin' is quite a bit thicker than some .. and if i get really annoyed, I know where the power button is on my computer :laugh:


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## CTValleyRR

time warp said:


> I'm gonna leave it alone, CT. I've got more respect for Warrens thread than I do for ED's crap.


Fair point. But tell me, do you have ANY respect for Ed's crap?

OK, ED, you get a pass on this one. Out of respect for Warren, not you.


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## wvgca

just reading this thread ... anyways, anybody put together a 'home made' decoder of any sort ??


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## Severn

Me. Very minimal. I got it off the internet. I successfully sent it a code from the jmri throttle and it printed out "hello world" or some such. So it's a few discretes and an Arduino. It's someone else's code... I was going to make incremental improvements...

But then ran into a this Iowa Eng board for decoding. which I bought but haven't tried and haven't gone back to this project yet.

I kinda forgot why I did buy that... Maybe it was just space.... This was several months ago... Maybe I just thought it was cool.

Anyway... The problem with these approaches that I can see is they use interrupt pins and timing to figure out the bits.

This seems to work but I want something I think that's all discrete to do that and say fill a fifo and feed a serial input to the Arduino with the dcc codes because...

In my mind this gives more cpu back to the Arduino to do stuff... I mean intuitively I think this way. I don't really know how expensive the serial access is in the Arduino.

But I'm not enough of an EE type to pull it off... That is do the timing logic of the code into hardware.

Anyway that's what I was thinking... But yeah it would be nice for a robust home dcc decoder solution ... I like the idea at least.


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## Bwells

Edit


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## wvgca

i've had good luck with this version of the merg decoder ...my signature shows the finished decoder being held up .. a slightly newer version of it with a pcb generated with eagle, and the pcb by some guy that i have never used again so far ..
i'm still using the original ten of these, and have yet to get one to let the smoke out, lol


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## Severn

Ok I scanned back through it and found MERG. So maybe something there I might want to try. But those weird comments...

Even money not a human being. Someone fiddling with some AI or something...


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## wvgca

yes, the link to the merg files is on page one ... i even went there and the d/loads are still available, twenty years old now!


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## Severn

I notice a couple of engine decoders. That's what I want. But actually as a "device" to an Arduino in a sense. Regardless this seems like interesting stuff. Maybe someone should have put it on GitHub/lab...


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## CTValleyRR

We just proved the value of resurrecting an old thread!!! We can all get a good reminder of what a horse's arse of a troll we lost when old EDDie was banned... all 3 times and user IDs.


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## Severn

I'm looking at the small loco decoder with feedback and stealth proj 12-13. I downloaded all the items. It comes with it's own pic controller and code, has bemf ... its not clear it does PID control stuff.
Im going to look at this and see if I want to build it. It's definitely an awesome effort.

What I think I want isn't quite this and isn't quite the "accessory decoders" for ardiuno I found floating around on the web -- I built one of them -- but i don't know enough to do it myself.


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## wvgca

that decoder from merg [i think] is the same one i built [kindof] some items were end of life or just too costly now ... but i used their code pretty much, except for adding firebox flicker ...
the bemf can be set to -very- responsive, lol


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