# Need Honest Opinion of Lionel LionChief and LionChiefPlus



## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

And, no...I am not thinking of spending more money....maybe.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

I don't own any of the LionChief or LionChief plus items, but I have worked with them. It appears to be the LionChief line is very basic starter set stuff while the LionChief Plus has better detail and other cool features. In particular, I worked with the Silver Bells LionChief set. It's fine and would be a great train for under the tree every year. And very fairly priced, for sure.

I don't believe you can use your TMCC or Legacy platforms to control them as they have their own control system.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Interesting....the reason for my interest is that they seem to look very good in videos.
Also, simplicity can sometimes be a good thing, but also seems a good price point.
Not sure how they stack up to MTH Rail King w/PS3 though.
As I just purchased and received MTH 30-20279-1 Rail King PS3 Santa Fe F3 ABA for $464 and free shipping.
I still think those MTH Rail Kings and RK Imperials still might be a much much better deal, as there are no LC or LC+ F3's...only FTs....and only AA sets.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Lionchief Plus sets are pretty nice locomotives. They have cruise control, good sound, fan driven smoke, and electrocouplers. The Lionchief are more basic, no cruise control, lower quality sound, mechanical smoke on steamers, and of course, no electrocouplers.

Todd is correct, LC requires it's unique remote or the new 3-channel LC remote from Lionel. 

The LC+ requires it's remote or the 3-channel LC remote, and in addition can be switches to conventional mode to run from a standard transformer.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

Any opinions on the Lion Chief remotes?


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## njrailer93 (Nov 28, 2011)

In my opinion I don't like them. I do not own any. I'm sure there sound runners with a good smoke unit and what not but to me they look cheesy. For the money I think you get more bang for you buck with mth railking


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The remotes are kind of "toy like", but then you have to figure what the target audience is. Of course, I think they should have gone slightly more "professional" with the LC+ remote as it is probably a different target market.


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

I have 3 Lionchiefs. Silver Bells, Polar Express and Santa's Helper. For what they are, holiday displays, they are very nice. You aren't going to do a lot with them, no switching, basically set it up and let it run. I loaded Santa's Helper up with 3 extra cars and it runs fine.

My Lionchief+ RS3 PRR is also very nice. It has the electrocouplers so it is more of an operational unit. It doesn't smoke as much as I'd like, but I might fuss with it when I have some time. Better sound, obviously. Compared to the PS2/PS3. Well sound control is better, sound is better, I don't know that they run a whole lot better, the RS3 does give good low speed. The MTH have better slow down/braking characteristics. I have PS2 and PS3 diesel and steam. A PS1 Mountain, a PS2 Pacific, FA2 set, a Premier Atlantic (which I really like), and then a PS3 NW and an Imperial Mikado. Plus a small butt load of conventional, Lionel, RMT, Williams, Kline.

I think you need to think about how accurate you think your engines should look and how you want to use them.


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## frizzinbee (Aug 5, 2015)

We own a multitude (some would say a plethora) of PS2/3 and TMCC/Legacy engines, as well as 2 LionChief Plus steamers. All 3 general "types" (TMCC, DCS, LionChif Plus) have their advantages, but I was very pleasantly surprised at how much I liked the LionChief Plus engines, They are certainly not in the same league as high end scale command control steamers in terms of looks, sound fidelity, and feature count - but they take the cake in terms of ease of use and reliability. 

Reliability:
Whereas I sometimes have trouble getting my TMCC and DCS engines to cooperate, the LionChief Plus ones seem to be both fool and bullet proof. ...no issues forgetting which number I programmed in, adding the engine to a new base, losing the ground, or not having my engine picked up by the remote with LionChief Plus.

Additionally, the LionChief Plus engines have wiring built into the drawbar that is very well designed. No tether, yet the drawbar easily clicks into place, doesn't require putting the engine on its slide or using tools to fully seat a plug, isn't prone to breakage, and isn't prone to loosening and falling out (unlike, say, PS3 steam engine plugs). Simple and effective.


Ease of Use:
My two oldest kids (ages 3 and 5) can run the trains with the Legacy and DCS remotes & work the basic functions, That being said, they prefer running our two LionChief Plus engines because the controls are so straightforward. The remote has all the basics covered (bell, whistle, couplers, announcements, speed control) and the 3 year old had it figured out in about 10 seconds. Our LionChief engines have become the go-to for home operating sessions, and they are the ones the kids want to bring to the club.

-Dustin


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Frankly, I don't havemuch to add beyond what frizzinbee added. But for the record.
1) Like frizzinbee, I have many PS2&3 and Legacy engines, which I love to run. 
2) Any more, I run _only _conventionally, for two reasons: a) everything runs that way: it is the only common "control system" that will, without a doubt, run anything in 3 rail, b) simplicity - not problems with ground planes, signals, programming, scrambled whatevers.
3) You can run LC+ and LC along with any loco(s) in conventional on the same track, at the same time. I won't go into how, but it is simple and I do it every day. 
4) I have ten LC+ and one PC loco. Both systems seem bulletproof. I have never had any problem with the LC and LC+ control systems. They are hassle free.
5) The tender-steam loco connector in LC+ and PC is the best in the industry. 
6) I prefer to run LC+ to anything else. It is simple and bulletproof. I have never had any operating problem with it, other than that the end of the battery life the distance the remote will reach drops. The first sign that the batteries are dead, on my layout, is when an LC+ loco reaches the far end of the layout (about twenty five feet from me) and stops, and begins beeping that it can't find its control signal. I then walk toward it holding the remote and it generally picks back up and I drive it home, then change the batteries in the remote, and the range is back up to what it should be (about 60 feet, through sheetrock walls even). 
7) If I could buy upgrade kits for my PS2 and PS 3 and Legacy locos to operate on LC+, I would. Heck, I'd upgrade the PS2 and 3 just for LC+'s superior tender-steamer connector alone!


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## rlomba8204 (Sep 20, 2015)

chipset35 said:


> And, no...I am not thinking of spending more money....maybe.


Got the boys a LC Metro North and Polar Express 10th anniversary sets for Christmas. (Went to Star Hobby in Annapolis at recommendation of member here.). Very nice starter level sets. Kids love the remote and my four year old can run it without issues. I can see why the enhanced LC+ would be a hit with adults.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2015)

I have 2 LC+ and 3 Railking PS3 locos. The sounds from the PS3 locos is way better than LC+. I'm not saying LC+ is bad, just that PS3 is a lot better. When is comes to running there is no difference. Both PS3 and LC+ are very good runners with speed control. PS3 puts out more smoke, but the smoke output on my 2 LC+ steamers is good, just not quite as much as PS3.

I like both and will buy more of each in the future. I really like the simplicity of LC+ a lot.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> Frankly, I don't havemuch to add beyond what frizzinbee added. But for the record.
> 1) Like frizzinbee, I have many PS2&3 and Legacy engines, which I love to run.
> 2) Any more, I run _only _conventionally, for two reasons: a) everything runs that way: it is the only common "control system" that will, without a doubt, run anything in 3 rail, b) simplicity - not problems with ground planes, signals, programming, scrambled whatevers.
> 3) You can run LC+ and LC along with any loco(s) in conventional on the same track, at the same time. I won't go into how, but it is simple and I do it every day.
> ...


WOW! That is quite the endorsement!

You know Lee, because of you, my layout is operating 50/50% Conventional/Command Control.
The reason for my interest in LC+, is due to the above fact, and the ability to run everything without hassle.
I love my DCS Trains and my TMCC's under conventional operation as well as my CC's, but it would be nice to eliminate the hassle of changing things per operations mode.

My concern is the longevity of LC+ engines and their durability.
One of my reasons for investing so much in Lionel Pullmor motor locomotives, is the fact that they will last forever.
Also, would be safe to assume a $100 average price delta between MTH RK and LC+ engines?
Anything less than $100 IMHO does not warrant me buying any.

Also, why no F3's in LC+ ?
It is all FT...FT...FT...that poor FT seems to always be condemned to the low end market.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2015)

The difference in price between RK and LC+ is in the $20-40 range. From the prices I've seen at online discount retailers a RK steam loco is about $389-399 and a LC+ steam loco about $359-379.


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## MOVL (Aug 23, 2015)

I glad many have replied to this thread. While I don't own any yet, I've been interested in the LionChief+ locos for a while. There are plenty of good, honest opinions here.
The LionChief+ E33 electric currently has my attention. I'd like to swap shells with my Rectifier freight set locomotive that is in the Virginian blue scheme.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm a bit late in answering this but here is my opinion/notes about the Lion chief line,


They are updated versions of the postwar trains. If you want new and have a limited budget, LC is a good choice.

The electronics, especially the sounds, are a vast improvement over other entry level trains such as Williams or the now defunct K-Line.

The chief flaw is the dedicated remote system. I just cannot accept it would have cost that much more to have incorporated TMCC making them compatible with hobiests who invested in TMCC or Legacy. The universal 3-at-a-time remote is a nice addition to the line but in my opinion not building with TMCC is a marketing mistake.

In short. The LC line provides a modern update to the traditional toy train market with kick-but electronics. Lionel also provides an avenue for debate on weather a totally new and incompatible electronic control system was actually needed, but on the bright side instead of working I can spend more time discussing this in the forum.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

Country Joe said:


> The difference in price between RK and LC+ is in the $20-40 range. From the prices I've seen at online discount retailers a RK steam loco is about $389-399 and a LC+ steam loco about $359-379.


That does not bode well for LC+ IMHO


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Country Joe said:


> The difference in price between RK and LC+ is in the $20-40 range. From the prices I've seen at online discount retailers a RK steam loco is about $389-399 and a LC+ steam loco about $359-379.


I agree. In fact sometimes the difference is zero. It's a hard choice, particularly when, as for example on Pat's trains, you can find an Imperial steamer for the same price as LC+. Both are bargains, and its sort of win if you do and win if you don't. 

As to the durability of LC+, I've had no issues there so far, but again, none are over three years old, even the onces that run every day.


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## PDDMI (Oct 25, 2015)

*LC+ question regarding durability...*

Just finished with a month long Christmas display using two (2) LC+ locomotives, a Pacific and a NW-2. Then throw in a LC Thomas the Tank for good measure. All three ran on separate tracks...I had them set to run on timers so that when the power went off they would stop and then start up again when the timer reached the next programed start time. Also wouldn't have to be on location all of the time when they were running...they were in a storefront window and viewable only from the outside. I left the remotes on and the engines would proceed in the same direction and speed as when they had previously stopped. For most of the month of December, they ran about five (5) hours every day...so really quite a workout. There were no issues, other than replacing the batteries in the remotes a couple of times, as they remained on 24/7. I did reverse the direction of the trains once a week hoping to even out any wear and tear, however after a quick inspection, it does appear that the traction tires might need to be replaced? The LC+ locomotives and all of the rolling stock will get a once over and have a maintenance check next week. But overall...couldn't be more pleased with the performance and duribility!!!
And, the best part is, we raised $1200.00 for our Community Foundation for use in our town Christmas Light Fund...

View attachment 125282


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2015)

chipset35 said:


> That does not bode well for LC+ IMHO


I disagree because you don't need DCS to run LC+ with wireless remote control. This is a big advantage to the conventional operator who doesn't want to add DCS or Legacy. Like anything else, LC+ is not for everyone.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Obviously, LC+ is not for Vince.


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## chipset35 (Sep 4, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Obviously, LC+ is not for Vince.


I do like the concept though


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## ftauss (Sep 18, 2012)

MOVL said:


> I glad many have replied to this thread. While I don't own any yet, I've been interested in the LionChief+ locos for a while. There are plenty of good, honest opinions here.
> The LionChief+ E33 electric currently has my attention. I'd like to swap shells with my Rectifier freight set locomotive that is in the Virginian blue scheme.


You might to check that out first. I have an older Lionel RS3 Christmas engine and I thought I could just swap shells and have me a LC+ Christmas RS3. The older one is longer. Not gonna happen.


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## Larry Sr. (Sep 7, 2015)

A short time ago I would not have wanted a RTR remote set. Then I purchased the Lionel/Hallmark Santa set. That led to the Christmas Silver Bells set.

I have a separate building for just my small layout. 

So, these sets made a in house living room Christmas tree layout so easy on me I fell for the sets.

By next Christmas I plan on another Christmas them set (Polar Express) and one of the remotes that will run 3 of the Lionel RTR remote sets. I'm looking for a "ON SALE NOW".

These 3 will make the Christmas tree layout so MUCH easer and fun for all ages and experience as far as I'm concerned. 

SO, let em crash it won't hurt me like if it was one of my expensive engines

All of them will be packed away with the other Christmas decorations not going on my main layout. I think Lionel made a winner with these sets.

Incidentally the living room Christmas decorator (wife) loves the idea as well.

Larry


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Obviously, LC+ is not for Vince.


I agree, LC+ isn't for everyone. Heck, DCS and Legacy aren't for everyone. There are lots of guys that prefer conventional control. I was trying to say that LC+ is a good product and right for some of us and I think it will be around for a long, long time.


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## Todd Lopes (Nov 11, 2015)

I like your thinking Larry. Let them rip, fly off the track, whatever, but lots of fun... I'm a big fan of the Lionel Fast track. It works great for under the tree layouts.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I used Fastrack for the Christmas display, I can put it down in a couple of hours and take it up even faster.


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## Jeff T (Dec 27, 2011)

I didn't read all the other posts, so I hope I'm not repeating anything.

I'm 59, first Lionel at age 6, today I have both TMCC & Legacy engines. I'm a part time runner and I do not have a layout.

As you can see I didn't mention MTH. As a part timer I've felt it's easier to deal with one mfr and their systems than two. No slight meant, but I always had Lionel so that made my choice easy.

With Legacy being the latest pinnacle of Lionel engineering I paid no attention to LC or LC+.

This year my 10 year old PE loco began showing it's years. I thought about buying a complete set and parting it out til GRJ made me a sweet deal on a LC PE.

OK, it's PE, an entry level set. I had to stop a minute and think what did I always disliked about my early trains and what is one of the things I liked about TMCC/Legacy. Thinking back to my younger days I hated how dim the cars were unless you ran that loco at speeds that had Dad yelling! When Lionel was able to split the power, as I call it, it was a game changer.

I put the LC PE under the tree and the first thing I liked was the passenger cars were actually illuminated and quite bright!! Now that's a plus. Running it with the remote was different, but it worked and I actually caught my wife playing with it a few times. The smoke output was way better than the previous version, the announcements are nice.

At the end of the day for me, these are entry level sets. If I had all this when I was 6 I would have been even crazier about my trains. It's not Legacy, but then again it's not priced like some of the Legacy engines either!

Just my two cents...


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