# Paint Color Options



## kvlazer22

I was wondering everyone's thoughts on the best paint color, type, and brand for AF steam engines, particularly 302 AC? I am very proficient in using an air brush so I am open to any type of application method.


----------



## mopac

A few of the guys use Krylon spray can. Black satin. Has the primer in it and easy to use.
I have a 302 painted with it. Looks great.


----------



## kvlazer22

Great recommendation....I did my 302 tender chassis with the Krylon black satin and it looks great! Thanks!


----------



## mopac

Glad to hear it worked for you. Its good paint.


----------



## AmFlyer

The Krylon black satin is good paint and makes a great looking engine. To my eye that paint has slightly more gloss than factory, but that is just my personal opinion. The paint that precisely matched the Gilbert factory paint was by Krylon and labeled Semi-Flat black.Unfortunately Krylon discontinued that color. After some experimentation I settled on a high temperature spray paint made for restoring BBQ grills. Found it in a local TruValue Hardware. However some may think this paint does not have enough sheen.


----------



## AmFlyer

I have posted these pictures before but thought with new MTF members I would repost them. The engine on the right is a LN condition 295 with untouched factory paint. The engine on the left is a 290 I resprayed with the out of production semi flat black. You can see these are exact matches but there is very little sheen. The high temp grill paint looks like this. The second picture is the resprayed 290.
It is also important to note that newer versions of the Hudsons and Northerns had a higher sheen factory finish than the older engines. So the Krylon Black Satin is a much closer match for those later production engines.


----------



## mopac

Great looking engines Tom. Yes, I have seen them before , but I can always look at nice
locomotives,


----------



## AmFlyerFan

mopac said:


> Great looking engines Tom. Yes, I have seen them before , but I can always look at nice
> locomotives,


Me too.

That Krylon paint works equally well on plastic & diecast body parts? I have a tinplate tender that could use a new coat.
Homer T.


----------



## mopac

It does work well on plastic. I painted some cheap HO coal hoppers with it. They look great.
Much better than the original molded plastic colors. They look like metal hoppers now. These
are cheap Tyco, Bachmann, Life Like hoppers. Going with new trucks, metal wheels, and couplers.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

That's what I thought. Thanx.
I'll have to check the garage, I just might have some out there.
Homer T.


----------



## AFGP9

AmFlyer said:


> The Krylon black satin is good paint and makes a great looking engine. To my eye that paint has slightly more gloss than factory, but that is just my personal opinion. The paint that precisely matched the Gilbert factory paint was by Krylon and labeled Semi-Flat black.Unfortunately Krylon discontinued that color. After some experimentation I settled on a high temperature spray paint made for restoring BBQ grills. Found it in a local TruValue Hardware. However some may think this paint does not have enough sheen.


Tom I have always preferred the Krylon Semi-Black too since it does matches the Gilbert black shade as you say. I did not know it was discontinued. Glad I still have 2 cans left. However, I do have some car engine header black paint that is a match for the Krylon Semi-Black. The brand is DupliColor. Probably similar in color to the BBQ grill paint since both are high temp. 

Kenny


----------



## kvlazer22

AFGP9 said:


> Tom I have always preferred the Krylon Semi-Black too since it does matches the Gilbert black shade as you say. I did not know it was discontinued.


Kenny, I believe Tom meant that Kylon Semi-Flat Black was discontinued. The Kylon Satin Black is still available. I just bought a can last week at Home Depot.


----------



## AmFlyerFan

On a respray, how do you protect decals? Did I read here somewhere that a small covering of Vaseline works best? Or tape?
I'm afraid to try tape, it might lift the decal.


----------



## AmFlyer

AmFlyerFan, I used Vaseline to protect the factory number and letter stampings when i resprayed the 290. It works well if there is no black paint damage in the area of the stampings.
I am no longer able to buy the Semi Flat black Krylon paint in any store here in California. It is possible that the new California regs are the issue and it might still be available elsewhere. I have the same problem with some other chemical products. The Satin Black is still available.


----------



## AFGP9

kvlazer22 said:


> Kenny, I believe Tom meant that Kylon Semi-Flat Black was discontinued. The Kylon Satin Black is still available. I just bought a can last week at Home Depot.


Looks like I have a typo there. I meant to say Krylon Semi-Flat Black. I left the the words "Flat Black" out of my comments. I know the Krylon Satin Black is still available. I really haven't looked for any of the Semi-Flat Black since I haven't needed any and have an adequate supply of the header paint which as I say looks the same as the Krylon Semi-Flat Black. 
I will make a point to look into this issue this week end when I go to Menards. Maybe Home Depot if it isn't at Menards. 
Tom's comment about California regs is a very good possible reason. When I was a GM parts manager you wouldn't believe how many chemicals, particularly any product using an aerosol propellant, have the words "except in California" or "not available in California". Plus there are many parts that are listed as "except California" or would have a listing PN. as "California only". Any part having to do with affecting the air quality usually. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyerFan

I forgot to ask about cleaning. To clean a boiler or tender before painting, do you use a 'Dawn' type liquid detergent?
Would a 'Simple Green' be too harsh?

(Now I got all my info in one thread)
Homer T.


----------



## AFGP9

I have always used Dawn and hot water. Seems to work on about everything. Simple Green is great stuff but I have never tried it simply because I think it might be a bit too harsh given it's intended use. My truck wheels yes but not trains. Maybe diluted. But still favor Dawn. 

Kenny


----------



## AmFlyerFan

Thanx again. I've used Simple Green on my Harleys, diluted is still almost too harsh.
I'll stick to Dawn.
Homer T.


----------



## kvlazer22

I would stay away from Simple Green for cleaning but if you are looking to strip paint than use it at full strength. Here is a tender that sat overnight in full strength Simple Green....


----------



## alaft61ri

Nice 290 and 295 look new.


----------



## kvlazer22

AmFlyer said:


> The engine on the left is a 290 I resprayed with the out of production semi flat black.


Tom, I can't tell the difference in the black shades from these pictures....they look great! Did you apply a clear coat over the road numbers to protect them? Are they dry transfers?

I guess my question is, does anyone apply a clear coat? Coming from a modeling background I am accustomed to applying a clear coat.


----------



## AmFlyer

I did not apply a clearcoat. It should not be necessary for these engines. A custom painted freight car with multiple colors and decals would likely need a clearcoat.
The lettering on the engine is the original factory ink stampings. Since they were in good shape I wanted to retain them. The way I chose to do that was was apply a thin covering of Vaseline that could easily be wiped off. It will not damage the white ink which is easily done. If they were paint rather than ink then they would not be so fragile.
The other place Gilbert used ink was the red trim on the 755/755A Talking Stations. Don't even think about getting water on them, you will quickly have an all white station.
If the numbers need to be redone there are 3 choices, decals, dry transfers and stamp pads. I bought a stamp to play around with. It takes a lot of practice to do well and it is hard to do without an alignment fixture. It is the only way to get the factory result. I think the only choice for tender lettering is decals, but I have not researched it.


----------



## alaft61ri

I tried the water decals once thankgod i bought extra thats all iam going to say about that decals or dry never heard about the stamp i will look into it tanks .


----------



## flyernut

alaft61ri said:


> I tried the water decals once thankgod i bought extra thats all iam going to say about that decals or dry never heard about the stamp i will look into it tanks .


Be careful with those dry stamps.. You have to PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE to do them right!!!.I had a bunch of them new, and I sold them all..I just couldn't master it.....


----------



## kvlazer22

I have really been struggling with this paint thing. I tried Henning's Paint and I have a love hate. I thought their semi-gloss black would be my go to for the locomotives. I did a couple color matches by brushing over dings and scratches on my Northern and it matches really well. It is a little more flat than the original paint but because of age I write that off. However, airbrushing is a little different, you need a LOT of paint to cover and the finish, in my opinion, doesn't come out that great. But the nail in the coffin for me was a week later I went back to use my pre-thinned Henning's and it gummed my airbrush up something awful. The paint looked like someone chopped up a jelly fish and mixed it in. So that paint is out. I will continue to use it for brush touch ups but it is never going through my airbrush again. 

I really like the finish and look of Rustoleum Satin Black 7777 730. I originally used it out of the can on my Atlantic tender and it looks great. However, being in airbrusher, I hate not having control with an aerosol can and so I bought a pint of the paint. I did my first test on my Northern tender step last night and it worked great. However, this paint is much glossier than the old paint so I hit with Model Master Flat Clear Laquer and it really blended the old and new paint.

The one step I haven't settled on is the primer step. Stay tuned for that.


----------



## DrawsOnCad

kvlazer22 said:


> I have really been struggling with this paint thing. I tried Henning's Paint and I have a love hate. I thought their semi-gloss black would be my go to for the locomotives. I did a couple color matches by brushing over dings and scratches on my Northern and it matches really well. It is a little more flat than the original paint but because of age I write that off. However, airbrushing is a little different, you need a LOT of paint to cover and the finish, in my opinion, doesn't come out that great. But the nail in the coffin for me was a week later I went back to use my pre-thinned Henning's and it gummed my airbrush up something awful. The paint looked like someone chopped up a jelly fish and mixed it in. So that paint is out. I will continue to use it for brush touch ups but it is never going through my airbrush again.
> 
> I really like the finish and look of Rustoleum Satin Black 7777 730. I originally used it out of the can on my Atlantic tender and it looks great. However, being in airbrusher, I hate not having control with an aerosol can and so I bought a pint of the paint. I did my first test on my Northern tender step last night and it worked great. However, this paint is much glossier than the old paint so I hit with Model Master Flat Clear Laquer and it really blended the old and new paint.
> 
> The one step I haven't settled on is the primer step. Stay tuned for that.


Have you settled on Rustoleum 7777 and then dull coat ?
I have a rather nice 312 that needs only touched up, and new letters on one side.
I was going to airbrush and blend, best I can, then dry transfer, then dull coat.


----------



## ftauss

I know this is 2.5 years after the fact but... I also do military models. I have found that Silly Putty or any of it's generic works really well for masking. I use it for camo painting on aircraft mostly. You can make irregular shaped or straight lines fairly easily. And it use reusable. Just pull it off, squish around for a bit, then put it in an airtight container. I have some I've used for 10 years or more, though I might do that any more. It is cheap and available - Michael's, Hobby Lobby Amazon, etc. And it does not pull up whatever you put it on.

I would think the real problem would be prepping the shell. If I were going to do that sort of thing, which I will do with my Lionel prewar 154 as soon as all the mechanical bits are cleaned and missing parts replaced, is I am going to strip it. I am experimenting with vinegar. It will neutralize any rust and even will make the old paint come up. Then you use baking soda in warm water to neutralize the vinegar, rinse it off and while doing that use a small brush to get anything still stuck. Dry it in the oven at a low heat setting for a bit and then turn off the oven and just let it dry. I am likely to use the Henning's paint with an airbrush if I don't find a decent spray. Tamiya makes a spray can primer that is good for metal surfaces. 

There are plenty of decals available. I found a very nice set of reproduction decals for the Lionel markings, the NYC herald and the number, I think Microscale makes generic number/letter sheets in railroad type fonts and dry transfers are usable, too.

Again I know it is an old thread but I thought I would thrown in $ 0.02.

Frank


----------



## flyguy55

Krylon semi flat black is pretty much a perfect match for Flyer steam engine black.I have used it on complete repaints and engines that had chipping paint spots.If you feather the paint chip it is a great blend.I have not found it on shelves recently but a fellow hobbyist said he got it on-line several months ago.


----------



## mopac

Thanks for the info. AmFlyer says it works great also. But non on the shelves. I will check online.


----------



## Tyrell54

mopac said:


> Thanks for the info. AmFlyer says it works great also. But non on the shelves. I will check online.


Got 2 cans from NAPA online. I picked it up at the local store the next day. No shipping and cheaper than Amazon


----------



## AmFlyer

Nice that you can get it. Most of those paints are no longer legal for sale in Ca. Many retailers will not ship an item to Ca if it is not carried in the local stores. Most Amazon sellers do not seem to care.


----------



## Defender

Dumb question here. How do you put the vaseline on the small numbers of the cab? Special brush? Or do you just go accross all the numbers or individual somehow? Bear in mind 70 plus yr. old rookie here with hand tremmers.


----------



## AmFlyer

I just stuck my finger in the jar and spread it over the area between the rivet detail where the numbers are stamped. Thickness of application does not matter. It all wipes off later when the paint is dry.


----------

