# Lionel legacy for dummies (me)



## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thinking of getting involved with this system. I have my eye on a nice engine but I only have run conventional, low technology, stuff so far. Pros and cons of the system, set up, etc.. , and what would I need to control the trains. Will it run conventional? Like I said I haven't a clue and might still buy the rig if the price is right. If I don't switch over to legacy will the eng run conventionally? Any and all advice is good. Thanks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TMCC and Legacy locomotives all run in conventional mode, obviously without some of the whistles and bells of full command control.

Setup of a Legacy system is dirt simple, connect one wire to the outside rail and start running trains.

If you have a conventional transformer connected directly to the tracks and are running trains now, the Legacy system won't affect the ability to run conventional stuff. You will have to run either command or conventional on a given loop, both do not mix.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks, that's mostly all I need to know. The other is how the use of insulated tracks play into this. I believe from what little I read the outside rail needs to be contiguous?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can use one outside rail for accessories, we do that on a large club layout. One outside rail has to be common throughout the layout for TMCC/Legacy to function.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks, all I need to know for now. If I get it I'll do a bit more research and then bother you some more!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Welcome to the command club.  This is an advance welcome.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Check out this transformer,

http://www.lionel.com/products/find...ywords=&CategoryID=116&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Got a separate post for hooking up command base.

I like everything but the price. 
They just had a write up on this in Classic Toy Train magazine.

The manual,
http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/6420737921250ZWLManual.pdf


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Unless you have a large layout, spending that kind of money on a transformer is totally unnecessary. Truthfully, I'd rather have four 180 watt bricks than the ZW-L, more available power and they're less than half the price on the street! For command operation, there's very little call to vary the track power, so buying that capability is a waste for most folks. I'd rather have another nice Legacy locomotive.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'll work on buying the engine first, I'll worry about how to run it later


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## golfermd (Apr 19, 2013)

Gulp! :laugh:

Dan


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed I figure I need two or three of those.  I'll just chip some gold off the bricks I have stored in the basement! I have been reading up a bit and an more confused then before but I still have to get the rig first.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd spend some time at Lionel Legacy Control System to start, and we can answer any questions that come up.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

this is ofcourse just my opinon, but before I would buy a Lionel zw-L, for 799.00, i would buy a MTH z-4000,heck ,one could buy two Z-4000 s for 799.00 ,and have more power then the zw-L ,but really,that is more power than most people need. ...............Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mike, in general, you're right. The one benefit of the ZW-L, if you choose to use it, is that you have TMCC control of the power from each handle. 

OTOH, if you run DCS, and pick up the optional Z-4000 receiver, you can do the same thing from the DCS remote with the Z-4000.

For strictly command, I don't miss the variable transformer aspects, so I use the bricks. Cheap, simple, and they have excellent circuit breakers. 

The primary reason for the ZW-L IMO is that Lionel wanted to address the deficiencies of the ZW-C with the external bricks, so they came up with the ZW-L.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes ,I agree that Lionel needed to improve there design of the zw-c ,and looks like they did,BUT ,the price is waaaay to much,when you can buy a transformer with dig.volt and amp. meters,two totally independent control handles, a 14 volt and 10 volt accy.post for about half the price.
and I run any "o" gauge / scale I want and never have any problems,like I said it was just my own opinon..............Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Many people have the Z-4000 and swear by it. It is an impressive transformer, and as you say, a lot cheaper than the ZW-L.

Truthfully, I don't see a ZW-L in my future, in spite of how nifty it looks, just can't justify that kind of money for the capability.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Mike and grj, I will check out the z-4000.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi All
I too am interested in the TMCC Legacy. Havent laid an track yet, so I'm at an advantage here, I believe. Here is my question. Do I need to cut _any_ insulated blocks at all, if I will be using the Legacy TMCC as the Main drive? If each Loco is on its own channel then it wont be necessary to throw a block switch when another engine enters the occupied block. Am I thinking this out correctly?

Patrick


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Patrick, I suggest you also take a look at Lionel Legacy Control System and we'll go from there.

To answer the basic question.

For TMCC/Legacy, you simply power all the rails with 18V constant voltage, connect the command base to the common outside rail, and run trains. There is no requirement to switch voltage at any time, the command systems controls the trains and the tracks are just a dumb power supply. You can have as many locomotives on a single transformer as it'll support, and they're all controlled independently from the remote.

You don't need insulated blocks, but larger layouts will probably have more than one power district. That means you have the center rail insulated between them and separate transformers supplying power. For our club layout, we have four power districts, each powered by a 180 watt Lionel Powerhouse transformer. Trains run seamlessly between the power districts as we run.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks John,
I understand the TMCC in principle. As far as Power Districts, that's a new circuit for me. I would like to get some exposure to the wiring for PD's.

Patrick


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Patrick, I would say you are ahead of the game right now. It is a good idea to think out the layout ahead of time, also where all the accessories are going etc. How big of a layout are you planning? That will decide if blocks are needed or not.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Sim9911,
I have plans for a 15 x18. 'F' shape with center island. I would like to go with TMCC Legacy Control powering with my ZW. I can also convert some postwar engines with Electric Railroad's AC decoder and Rail Sounds as weli as running other TMCC units. My ideas for operating.
Patrick


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Patrick, look forward to seeing your build. I have to admit, legacy sounds like the way to go but it is $$$. I might just have to aquire bits and pieces and put it together down the line. It looks like you got a bit of space for now! I don't have that much room yet, but you never know. If and when you start converting the engines take some pictures and pot them, I'd be interested in what your doing. Thanks.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Sure will post some pics when I convert those Post war engines. I have to go slowly also..$$$. As do most of us. My space of 15x18 is the max, unless we buy another house just for the trains. LOL. That's not happening. I'm Using the attic and that's my allotted space. Can't go anywhere else in the house! 
After speaking with my local O scale hobby shop guy, he explained about the Legacy System. I really like what it can do. 

Patrick


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I didn't win the set i wanted, it bid up over retail. The set may not be pproduced any more but I could buy it now for the same money. If I don't feel like I'm getting a deal I'm not buying. That's just me. I got my eye on another one or I just might buy new.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I know the feeling. Missed a Korber 4 stall O scale Roundhouse the same way.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Power districts are, quite simply, sections of the layout all powered from a single transformer. Depending on how large the layout is, as well as how many simultaneous consists you plan on running, you may need more than one transformer. For our club layout, we run all command and have four 180 watt transformers, each feeding a section of the overall layout. This allows multiple full trains to be running at the same time.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, quick questions on the Lionel brick type transformers. Is the celebration one better then the other one? I also read of circuit s failing. Is this a worry? Is one with 180 w bricks newer as I read they made 130w bricks also. Are all bricks interchangeable it looks like there is two different types( same watts) ? Is a good Rough price range 250-300$? Or a bit more? Thanks. I'll still mess it up when buying!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know of any "Celebration" series PowerMasters, they're all the same. I have heard of failures of the circuit breaker on occasion in the bricks, but that's something that can happen to any device. I know a lot of people with them, including me, and none of us have experienced any failures.

If you shop around, you can get the PowerHouse 180 bricks for less than $100, I've never paid that for any of mine. The PowerHouse 135 bricks are even cheaper, the most I paid for any of those is $45 I believe. Note that the 135W models require an external breaker as the internal one is pretty slow.

I think the Celebration series you're talking about is the ZW-C controller that comes with two 135W bricks, and the later ZW-C shipped with two 180W bricks. The bricks were the standard product.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I saw a few celebration s advertised new in box on the bay with 180 bricks. I also noticed some bricks didn'thave the lights on them? Maybe those are the older ones. I did pick up a rig ( iI think I messed up though) more on that when it arrives!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The lights are built into the switches on top of the 180W transformers, the 135W transformers have red lighted switches on the side.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

That helps a lot! Thanks.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Allright, I've been researching Lionel legacy, and the one constant I get is gunrunnerjohn on 50 + sites talking about it. I think one was even in Korean.  I think ill just post my questions here!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That was Japanese, please let's not insult our Far East cousins.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

My fault, Japanese translated to Korean!
Btw, I'm looking at a 990 legacy control system and a transformer with two 180 bricks. I guess I could sell a zw to defer the costs


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, got a legacy 990 coming, a loco that I think I messed up on, ( I don't think I can run it on my track, more on this when it arrives). Is there any way I can run this configuration with my current transformers (old zws) or are the newer ones a necessity? I'm still in the hunt for tthe brick version, it might take a while, supply( almost none on the bay) and demand $$$ ( I'm almost maxed out on fun dollars, yea that used to mean something else when I wasn't married)!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can run them with your PW-ZW, the only addition I would suggest is a good quality circuit breaker and a TVS protection diode in the track feed. There's no reason to spend money on transformers right now.

You do have to budget money for O72 curves, so save that transformer money! 

FWIW, I was planning an O31 layout and got to the point of having the track in hand, then I realized that I was severely limiting myself. I'm moving on to O72 for mainlines and perhaps as small as O42 for some yards. Of course, this required rethinking the whole scheme!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I got boxes of track, I don't give out for free unless I have plenty for myself! Yea I did not think the track issue through, it's a matter of space to lay it down. I do allready have circuit breakers installed, I'll see about the transformer if it's cheap enough  The engine I purchased will never run on my track as is. It might have to be put up for a trade, I'll know more when I get it. Overzealous and slightly informed, I made some impulse buys! Oh well, such is life.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

FWIW, I have a number of locomotives that won't run on O36 or smaller, that's what pushed me to change my direction.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok after a bit of research and help from people here, I think the rig I'm getting will run on my outside track with a slight modification, one turn has to be replaced with O42 track. My loops are o42 allready! I'm going to add( in the near future another loop around my existing layout with o72 track I have. I'll add switches between the two outer loops and leave the innermost loop for my lot of conventional trains. That's the theory anyway. This is the number of the train 6-28396.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like it'll run on O42, but you might want to move the scenery back a bit from the curves, I think it's going to hang out quite a bit. 

Nice locomotive, I would like to find one of those at a reasonable price myself.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Good advice, the FM Trainmaster runs the outside track. Some trees were uprooted on its maiden voyage! (and not by me). Hopefully I got a good price, condition, and operation of the car will factor into this. I'll post pictures for ed, and a rundown of the rig when it comes in? Grj, what do think a reasonable price is? ( a guesstimate is Ok, I bought it allready no regrets, yet).


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sjm9911 said:


> I'll post pictures for ed,



Ed don't need no stinking pictures!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Sjm9911

Glad you made the jump to the Legacy. Did you get it new? Let me know how you like it. It 's on my near future bucket list. Are you going to convert the any PW Locomotives to run with the Legacy?

Patrick


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No, everything used and hopefully in good shape. When I get the stuff it will take me a bit to get it up and running( I only have use of one hand at the moment). The layout revisions will take 2 hands atleast. As for converting pw cars I'm waiting to see what you do first! I don'thave a clue.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

A "reasonable" price for the lionel 6-28396 is, as you say, very dependent on condition. It's a fairly new locomotive, having just been released in 2011, and it has lots of nice features.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I didn't realize it was that recent of a release, I wanted I different one but this was cheaper.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, that one is a pretty fancy one, so you got a good one.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, just won my new '' old'' transformer on the bay. Zw-c with 2 180 bricks and the add on voltmeter. No box. And after that purchase I'm all in about 1100$ shipped. That includes the rig, legacy 990, extra 180 brick, transformer, 3 houses, and a water tower. Hopefully if it all works I think it was a good price.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Sounds great sjm9911. You're on your way out of the yards!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're ready to roll!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Picked up a nib Golden Gate Depot 100 ton Coaling tower on the bay. Really nice model. I bit the bullet for this one. Now all it needs is a good weathering... Maybe I'll leave it outside for a while!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Big mike, I did bid on a few Mth 4000s but they all went above my 300 Buget. The lionel was less then that and the other auction I won had an extra 180 w brick. Plus the zw has the optional digital display. I liked that on the Mth. Best bang for the buck, I hope!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Best buy I've had on a transformer for some time was this MRC Pure Power 270, it's like new for $125. 270 watts of real power at the two outputs.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I actually remember a post about one of those( probably yours) . I bid on one months ago.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Someone offered this one up over in OGR for $125, it was such a good deal I jumped on it! I sold my last PW-ZW for $150 and pocketed the change, I think I came out ahead.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

That's about how I figured it also. I got 540w power. I can dump the zws (550w), well at least one anyway! Until I convert my lights to leds I sill need one. I have a lot of lights!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

LED's are your friends, solves the excessive power consumption by the lights issue.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok so it came today. It's huge. It has a little damage to the outer railing. Otherwise it's in great shape. It is heavy will not navigate the tighter turns of my outer loop. I ran it on 1/2 the track. The railsounds work well and the switcher goes in both directions. The smoke unit is untested as I don't have the track radius to run it. Did I mention it was big!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Wow that is a nice big. Mover! Enjoy it!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Patrick, I think I'm finally in over my head!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like a little CA glue will fix the railing. However, fixing the track might take a little longer.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I'll fix the rig after I set down the track(hopefully). Ok my stuff came in I have a lot of reading to due tomorrow to get up to speed. I have a few pictures and some questions. First off the legacy system looks new, some parts never removed from its packing(good I hope). The transformer add on screen back has broken screw things, if any one know what they are and if they are easily replaced let me know please. Other wise the transformer powers on. ( that's as far as I got). Also help identifying the little house thing(lock on for legacy, does it need special lock ons?) and I have no clue what the wire board thing is controller for??? Thanks.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The "doghouse" is the TMCC Direct Lockon, you can set that aside until you get things working.

I'd like to see a better shot of the back of the ZW-C, because mine looks quite different. Here's what mine looks like. Also, what does the emblem on the top look like?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Its got the add on voltmeter option. I think the guy over tightened the screws but I don't have a clue as to if they are replaceable or where to buy them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I realized that just now. I think I'd take that off for now and get back to it later. That's not the most useful accessory on the planet, it's more for the "cool" factor.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I need all the '' cool'' I can get! What about that board thing only






info on it is a patent # and a Lionel L.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Maybe a better pic.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

That's a Lionel SC-2 Switch and Accessory Controller, and it looks like someone is about to step on it.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok cool, thanks. The foot was for size comparison. After all was said and done, and if everything works, I think I got a lot of good stuff for the money. Now I have to wait a month to fix the track! For a dinky peice of plastic that thing is expensive, now I have to buy the switches to see if it works!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Hey SJM
Looks like a lot of cool stuff! Let us know when it's up and online.
Patrick


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Unfortunately, won't be up and running for a bit. I will try to set up temporarily to at least test the equipment. When I'm able I'll bang out the new loop and figure the rest out as I go. That's the plan anyway. Cool is right! I felt like a little kid waiting for my spy glasses, that I ordered out of the back of a comic book, to arive. I then ripped open the packages like it was Christmas morning.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Last questions for tonight, I know I haven't read all the manuals but I have skimmed a lot. Will the remote switch/ accessorie thing work with legacy, the instructions say it works with cab 1. ( I don't know what that means either). It looks like it's pretty cool, it will leave me hands free to relax or run my cconventional stuff on the inner loop. Do I have to remove my insulated track, I thought I read that the tracks can't have any breaks? I don't remember. I did figure out the house thing, direct hook up for the brick, no transformer needed. Uncharted waters for me. Thanks.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

What I understand of the system, it has to have one continuous rail without breaks so the signal can complete its loop. But I think it will work with insulators if you feed another signal wire after the insulated gap to continue the signal loop.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I was thinking sort of the same thing, but I haven't a clue. Luckily I only have two or three insulated rails on the loop. If it was my inner loop I'd be in trouble!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

sjm9911 said:


> Last questions for tonight, I know I haven't read all the manuals but I have skimmed a lot. Will the remote switch/ accessorie thing work with legacy, the instructions say it works with cab 1. ( I don't know what that means either). It looks like it's pretty cool, it will leave me hands free to relax or run my cconventional stuff on the inner loop. Do I have to remove my insulated track, I thought I read that the tracks can't have any breaks? I don't remember. I did figure out the house thing, direct hook up for the brick, no transformer needed. Uncharted waters for me. Thanks.


The SC-2 works fine with Legacy, I have a number of them. Virtually everything that works with the CAB1 works with Legacy. The single exception is the old PowerMaster, it receives commands directly from the CAB1, so you need a special bridge for it to work with Legacy.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Grj, I think I located a second loco for the inner loop. Then I can have two trains running with the smaller engine crossing from the insides loop and back. The insulated track I'll figure out more as I read. As I understand it the transformer has a circuit breaker, the bricks have a circuit breaker, and the house has a circuit breaker. Do I still need extra protection in line with the wires? 

On a side note why is the legacy 990 selling for 800$+ $$ on e bay? Is it rare or discontinued?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The Legacy #990 is the current product. Anyone trying to sell one for $800 is deluding themselves. They happen to be in short supply until next month, Lionel is experiencing delays in receiving their Chinese shipments. 

If you have a modern transformer, like the Powerhouse 180 bricks, you don't need more circuit breakers. However, you still should have a TVS protection diode across all track feeds for transient protection. The 1.5KE36CA TVS is a good choice.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It just sold for 860$, the other one is about the 500$ range with a day to go.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The highest price I see for a Legacy #990 in recent sales is $420, which is absurd anyway!

There is one listed for $750, but I'll bet nobody bites.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The 860$ just ended, I was watching it for a while, to get an idea on price when buying mine. Crazy. If the 750$ one sells I'll list mine and wait for the new shipment as I don't have the track to use it yet. Could be some one trying to raise prices too. List one and bid it up high so the otherone sells for more?! I ccan't figure it out.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Are you sure you're not thinking of this one? I missed it in my first search, but it went for $560, even more absurd! 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Lionel...283376?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4d0d0aa5b0


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

looking for them on sale just now. You can't find one anyware just pre orders for an unspecified delivery date. Also search results found the same thing I'm talking about in the ogf.
Item no. 321134536620


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I put the item # in the last post for you.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Is this the CAB-2? Lionel has a list price of only $399. Better off getting the CAB-2 for half the Ebay price for the CAB-1, IMO.

http://www.lionelstore.com/power-control/990-legacy-command-set.html


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

That's the cab 2. As far as what Grj said, and looking around there isn'tany to be had anyware. Just ppreorders. Maybe they had a pproblem or are switching manufacturers?


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

They will probably make some changes on it and come out with a new unit. Usually when something disappears, it returns with new features and inflated price tag to match. Just marketing strategy. Same with computers. every six months a new and inproved processor is born!

Patrick


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There will be no changes to the Legacy system, the current shipping estimates are next month. They changed suppliers, and had a new shipment earlier this year, and more are coming. Interesting to note that MTH had the same issues recently with the DCS system, they were scarce as _hen's teeth_ for some time.

The bidding that $860 unit was interesting, apparently just two clueless newcomers!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well I guess the seller is happy. 

That is why I always say you never know what the out come will be as it all depends on who is bidding.

You ought to watch now to see if it gets re-listed.
Maybe the newbie had second thoughts after he won. :laugh:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I can only hope the clueless wonder found out he paid three times what it was worth!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

You know how it goes on Ebay. Gotta have it, gotta have it, no it's mine......as bidding wars go.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok 610$ for a 990 with a buy it now price of 399$, I'm confused! Just ended today.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

My personal opinion of sellers on Ebay is that many are knowledgeable about their offerings, but just as many haven't got a clue. They're just looking for a huge sale price. The RS-3 I bought 2 weeks ago for example...ran well, Railsounds didn't work. I took some suggestions from GRjohn and tried to resurrect the Railsounds, but that didn't work I am returning it as we speak, its on the FEDEX truck, back to CA. 
The guy (who obviously doesn't know anything about the Locomotive), said its in 'excellent condition'. Well EXC means everything works and its pretty much a safe bet that its a good one. So, your confusion,SJM, about that item isn't un-warranted. This is Ebay, after all...or should I say 'Get Rich Quick.com'

Patrick


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Got to agree with you. I actually got a cheap price on something when I misspelled the name.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I have been watching this thread SJM I see that you asked me in your layout thread, but I know little about it so I just keep quiet.

You see what happened when I put the Lionel ZL link in. 
It got shot down faster then you can say _ _ _ _. 

If the price was cheaper I would take the ZL any day over the power bricks. :smokin:

I will go back to






continue please.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the price were cheaper, I'd take the Rolls Royce over the Chevy too, but it's not.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ed, just wanted you to see the junk I bought instead of jamming up the other thread. The bricks were much cheaper. I got the transformer, supper cool show off amp meter thing, 3 180 bricks ( should be lots of power) and the controller thing for under 4 bills shipped. I did good. It has the look of the more expensive one.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If the price were cheaper, I'd take the Rolls Royce over the Chevy too, but it's not.


Here is a nice one, $17 grand, you would look good cruising down the road John. 










All power equipment on this vehicle is in working order. No defects. There are no dings on this vehicle. There are no problems with the engine. Has an extra clean exterior. This vehicle appears to have been garaged. A non-smoker owned vehicle. The interior is in excellent condition. There is no trouble shifting this transmission.
Body Style: SEDAN 4-DR
Air Conditioning
Leather Seats
Engine Type: 6.8L V8 OHV 16V TURBO
AM/FM Radio
Power Door Locks
4 Door
Automatic Transmission
Power Steering

Lots more to choose from, some classics too. Me I never wanted one.


http://www.carsforsale.com/used_cars_for_sale/1988_Rolls+Royce_Silver+Spur_192570841_45


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Too late Ed, I just picked this up last Friday. I finally decided that I needed more space than the 350Z offered, though I do miss the power of my little hot-rod.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Was looking at a MTH Railking RS-3 with DCS control and sounds. I don't have Command yet but I am leaning toward the TMCC. If I get the RS-3, Will the RS-3 operate properly when controlled by the TMCC, when I buy the system?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nope, to operate a DCS locomotive in command mode you need a DCS system. There is a cheap one if you want to operate a single DCS engine on the layout, but most folks will end up with more than one DCS engine, then you need real DCS.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks John. Wasn't sure about the whole DCS thing. Being new at the Command Control experience, I' m treading on new ground.
Patrick


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Not a problem, that's why we're here. 

There are two incompatible command systems for O-gauge, Lionel TMCC/Legacy is one, and MTH DCS is the other. While you hear that MTH can run TMCC stuff, that's only with a Lionel command base cabled to the DCS TIU, then you can use the MTH remote to operate trains, but not switches or accessories.

If I want another remote for my TMCC, I get more functionality with this free application for my Android phone.


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## the_big_e81 (Jan 2, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Not a problem, that's why we're here.
> 
> There are two incompatible command systems for O-gauge, Lionel TMCC/Legacy is one, and MTH DCS is the other. While you hear that MTH can run TMCC stuff, that's only with a Lionel command base cabled to the DCS TIU, then you can use the MTH remote to operate trains, but not switches or accessories.
> 
> ...



John,
How's that app working? Is it the same app that was being advertised on the O gauge forum?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, it's the same one. It works pretty nice, of course it doesn't do the Legacy specific stuff that I like to use, but for TMCC it appears to function as advertised. The Bluetooth module I bought only costs around $15, so it's a cheap remote. I had an old 3.5V power supply around to power the module, so I didn't need that.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

SJM, you're truly an interesting person. I've been noticing that, of your two recent posts, you have nearly a combined 4000 hits on your two articles. For one thing, you choose very down to earth, obviously appealing titles for your posts, plus the fact that you claim to be just like the rest of us, still learning, even tho' I think you're much farther along than you claim to be. Congrats on drumming up interest in the O gauge posts. I often am happily surprised at how even the division of readership/active posting is between our O gauge site and the HO site. Sometimes we even have more peeps online!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

We're always learning here, no matter what the level is.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I guess SJ is on vacation?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Ishmael, means a lot. Unfortunately I'll be on a break for a bit. I'll be back when I can.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*MRC Pure Power Dual*

I just bought an MRC Pure Power Dual off E-bay for $99.
The description said the plug was cut off the power cord for "unknown reasons."
When it arrives, it will be interesting to see if it works.
I understand MRC is great about servicing their equipment
and I may be contacting them to service my new acquisition
if I can't get it to work simply by reattaching a new power plug.
Wish me luck on this one. Note: I will be replacing a fine old Lionel KW:
if I can get this MRC to function...


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If it's this one, that's a pretty good deal if you can get it running without too much issue. I have one of these, it supplies a true 270 watts to the outputs, 7 amps on each handle. There is a circuit breaker for each handle, and one for the complete transformer. Also, each handle has a whistle and bell control for modern locomotives. The volt and amp meters are a nice touch as well. 

They're quite simple inside, and look to be pretty easy to work on.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*MRC Pure Power Dual - 2*

Gunrunner: Thanks for your comment on my post. Yes, I believe I won the transformer depicted in the image you provided. I'm happy to hear this model is easy to work on and quite simple inside as I'm a pretty simple guy myself. 
I bid on the MRC based on your previous comments about one you 
acquired for $125 some time back. The E-bay picture of the item was
very blurred and it took me some time and research to verify that it was
indeed an MRC Pure Power Dual. I won it with a very lucky last second bid
and I'm eager to receive it and get it apart for a check up.
If you have any further advice on how I should approach that job,
I appreciate hearing it. Cheers!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

When you get it, we'll get some interior pictures and go from there. It's a very robust design, as long as it hasn't been somehow cooked, it can be brought back to life. It's actually a very simple and straight-forward design.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*MRC Pure Power Dual - 3*

Gunrunner: I appreciate your comments and offer of support.
Attached to this message are the E-bay images I based my bids on.
When the item arrives, I'll dissemble it and post pictures of what I see.
Cheers.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're right, they're really poor images! It is indeed what you suspect, hopefully it will be a transformer again.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Most of the time when the plug is snipped off something is seriously wrong with the item.

Hope yours is just a simple plug to add.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*Pure Power Dual: boat anchor or not?*

The $99 MRC Pure Power Dual transformer arrived yesterday and I opened it up to inspect it.
The design of this unit is very clean and I had no trouble getting it apart. I saw nothing suspicious inside and closed it back up. The unit was missing the control handles on both sides and also all the terminal nuts but otherwise looked pretty clean. There was evidence of it being previously disassembled as two of the case screws were missing. There was no electrical smell on the unit. I attached an AC power cord to the cut-off end of the AC line and turned on the power. The pilot light came on. I tested the output voltage of the fixed 14v tap and my meter read 14 volts. However, I could read no voltage from either the train A or train B taps no matter what position the side handles were in. My next idea is to test continuity through the two resettable fuses for handle A and B. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to try...
The windings of the main coil where the handle wipers rub seemed clean and undamaged.
Please see the four attached images and let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd measure power directly from the common to the wipers and see if you get power there first. That will tell you the core and wipers are working properly.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*MRC Pure Power Dual*

Yes, I do measure voltage between the common terminal and the wipers on both sides of the big coil assembly. It reads about 18v AC, the same on both sides. This is good news?
I also called "John" in the parts and service department at MRC. He says send the unit to him with $60 for repairs and shipping and he will repair it, replace the missing handles and terminal screws and send it back to me. I told him it was an E-bay acquisition. Nice guy and a generous offer! Any other suggestions or tests I should try? (thanks GRJ for your previous help).


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the handles are probably going to cost you half of that or more, I think I'd send it in!  Since that covers return shipping, it sounds like a really good deal. Once you get it working, you'll like the transformer, it has more capacity than a ZW and nicer controls as well. Of course the meters are a nice touch, as is the horn and bell buttons. The only thing it doesn't have is the extra variable channels, which I don't find all that useful anyway.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*MRC Pure Power Dual*

Decision: I will send the transformer to "John" in Parts & Repair at MRC and let him make it like new again. If he can do that for the price he quoted, I'll consider myself a lucky camper
with a new and very cool power supply for my growing Lionel postwar train collection.
Since I have voltage between the common and the wipers, I suspect that the problem is in one of the modules mounted in the top of the unit and John/MRC can replace those more easily than I ever could. Replacement handles and terminal nuts will be frosting on the cake!
I'll post here again when I get the unit back from MRC.
Thanks to GRJ for the expert opinion and sound advice.


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## Bob B. (Feb 7, 2013)

*MRC Pure Power Transformer - Restored & Working*

After a few weeks of waiting, the MRC Pure Power transformer I originally bought on E-bay for $50 has been shipped back to me by Doug and John at MRC in New Jersey. It now functions correctly and I'm happy with the extra power, convenient horn and bell buttons and generally nice overall design of the unit. After all is said and done, I'm down about $200 but I have a heck of a nice transformer and I learned a lot about it during the diagnostic phase of the repair process. I'd recommend MRC's service as long as you are patient and don't mind making a few phone calls to expedite the service staff. The only drawback I see in the transformer is that the train speed is lowered when the whistle button is pushed. I can live with that and I love having a separate bell button for each train so I don't have to deal with having an extra separate Lionel button to activate and deactivate the bells in my Railsounds tenders and box cars. Thanks again to Gunrunner for his advice and encouragement. Cheers!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Glad it all worked out, enjoy your new transformer. FWIW, that's the one I kept and sold both of my PW ZW transformers, I think this one is more useful.


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