# I have a tender with the 2 holes also



## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Sorry, I do not remember who the member was, but he posted
a pic of a tender with 2 holes in the front of a tender and wanted
to know what they were for. I was working on my 1952 282 with a
metal tender and I noticed it had the same 2 holes. I do not know
what they are for either. I do have some guesses. My first guess
is an aide to hold the metal as it is being stamped and being bent
to shape. Maybe to hold for painting. Maybe to hold as the graphics are applied. They may be there to let the magic smoke
out to indicate you have a short in the tender. Although plastic
shells do not have holes to let the magic smoke out.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

That was Eric (kvlazer22) who posted the picture of a shell with the 2 additional holes. Your picture of a complete tender shows a 4 wire connection so that rules out any purpose relating to a SIT tube. Now my crazy thought about a revised stamping for a run of 305 tenders is maybe not totally crazy. The 305 was cancelled after the catalog artwork was completed so it is possible some revised tenders were made. The two holes could be for better sound volume.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Now I am curious if someone with a 282 with metal tender has a tender without the
2 holes. not all 282s had metal tenders. Some had plastic tenders. Maybe 1953 models.
I have 2 282s. One metal tender, one with plastic tender. The plastic tender goes to a 282
with a 5 wire engine with glowing smoke stack. Indicating a 1953 model.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

282's are documented with and without three holes in the metal tenders. Same for the 290. The real question is which metal tenders were used on the 285 and 295 with the air chime whistle, there seems to be no documentation in the reference books. My 285 and 295 have the tender with the three holes which I never noticed until this thread started! So does the 282 in the set I posted here last month. I am always learning new things here.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

I saw that post and never thought my 282 had the 2 holes.
Thanks for the info Tom.


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## AmFlyerFan (Jan 27, 2019)

I also have a tender with those 3 (2 extra) holes. The side says "Reading Lines". On the back my ladder is a tinplate one & it came with a link coupler.

This was on the back of a 21085 Steamer (garage sale). I know that's not correct.


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## kvlazer22 (Jan 27, 2020)

The mystery of the three holes continues!

My three holer came from either a 300 or 302AC.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

This 3 hole tender discussion got me curious so I went and checked my engines. 
My 300AC has the 3 holes with American Flyer/Reading Lines on the sides and 3 spring trucks. 
My 302AC has the 3 holes with American Flyer/Reading Lines on the sides and 3 spring trucks.
My 282 has a die cast tender so only 1 hole and American/Flyer Lines/PRR on the side. 
I never thought much about the 3 holes until this discussion came up. I just thought that it was another Gilbert thing for no good reason or purpose. In fact I had forgotten about them until now so I had to go look. Once again I learned something yet again. Always learning here. 

Kenny


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks for the additional data. Kenny, your 282 does not have its original tender, the one connected to the engine is from a 312/312AC. 302AC's were made in 1952 so 3 spring trucks plus the additional tender holes sounds right. Gilbert must have started using these tenders with 3 holes for any sheet metal tender application at the end of link coupler production. The 300AC is puzzling, they were last made in 1950 so it should not have 3 spring trucks. 300's were made until 1953 so they could have the 3 spring trucks which were first made in 1951.
I am not sure anyone up to now paid close attention to the usage of 3 hole sheet metal tenders based on the lack of reported variations in the published books.


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## mopac (Feb 24, 2011)

Tom is correct on your 282 tender. Original would have been a C&NW tender. PRR were
used with K5s. No biggie, as long as it works. I like the K5 tenders better.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Tom and mopac thanks for the information regarding the tender on my 282. It looks correct so I never knew it was wrong for that engine. Mopac, I agree with you about the appearance of that type of tender. I will leave it as I bought it so many years ago. 

One last thing. My Doyle American Flyer catalog does indeed list the 282 with only having the CN&W herald not PRR, and sheet metal tender except for one plastic version, not that I doubted anybody. I should have checked before I posted the wrong information regarding the tender being a PRR one. Oh well, it looks good to me and runs just fine. 

My Doyle book also does list 4 different tender versions that could have been on the 282. The standard Type I sheet metal tender was lettered "American Flyer" with link coupler. Type II is listed as having a plastic tender body on sheet metal trucks and link couplers and "American Flyer". Type III is listed as having simulated stoker screws and marker lights with sintered-iron side frames and "American Flyer". Type IV is listed as some of the tenders with stoker screws were lettered as "American Flyer Lines". As was pointed out, all were CN&W. 

Kenny


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

My 302AC from 1951 that I posted last week that has the 2 different trucks also has the 3 hole tender. Tom might be on to something about the not produced 305 with the air chime whistle. There are documented 300AC and 302AC Atlantic's with 3 hole tenders. I don't know for sure but the 295 Pacific's I've observed have 3 hole tenders. I don't recall the 285 tenders, but both the 295 and 285 engines shown at The Gilbert Gallery both have 3 hole tenders. Maybe the sound from a sheet metal tender was worse than the sound from the die cast tenders and that was an attempt at a fix. The K-5, Hudson, and Northern engines all had die cast tenders. None of those 3 had holes in their tenders. Another thing I haven't found an explanation for is why there are small holes in the sides of some sheet metal tenders. They are not complete holes but rather punched out on 3 sides leaving one side connected to the sheet metal. They are also offset from each other. More questions than answers. One last thing of note on tenders, has anyone else observed that the earlier plastic tenders (52 to 54) don't have any cut outs at the rear or the coal bunker, but the later ones do. I know, I have too much free time it seems to worry about these things. Just some observations over the course of my involvement with Flyer trains.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

No, I never noticed all those detail variations. I assume you are referring to those small square holes on the sides of the sheetmetal tenders. One possibility with the diecast tenders is Gilbert may have decided the cost of modifying the dies was not worth whatever sound improvement it would have provided.


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Yes, the 2 square holes in the sides. My 302 from 48 doesn't have them but a tender from a 290 that's apart has them and you can see that only three sides of the hole is punched out so it can be bent over to hold something in place.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

I too have noticed those square holes on 290 sheet metal tenders but I figured Gilbert had plans for something then at the last minute dropped the idea. By the time the decision was made to stop whatever plan they had in mind, too many tenders had been produced with the holes so instead of scraping them, and for the sake of not wanting to loose money on the already produced tenders, they let them go out. Just my theory. 
With Gilbert's some times quirky production changes and the many other unexplained and undocumented production questions, it just seems like just another Gilbert day of production. 

Kenny


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

Kenny, you might add these to your list of 282's. Both are from 1953, all plastic link coupler ones. Neither came with the marker lights or the stoker. Both are 4 wire plus 1 wire with the red painted dot on the plug so to not reverse the orientation when plugging in. The 2 different # sizes are known examples.


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## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Cramden, now I see another interesting detail. On the lower 282 both tender sideframes have the 2 vertical slots (type5.) The upper 282 has one truck, the front, w/o the slots (type 4.)


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## cramden (Oct 13, 2015)

AmFlyer said:


> Cramden, now I see another interesting detail. On the lower 282 both tender sideframes have the 2 vertical slots (type5.) The upper 282 has one truck, the front, w/o the slots (type 4.)


Thanks for pointing that out, I never noticed that before.


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## AFGP9 (Apr 8, 2015)

Cramden I knew about the different number sizes but forgot about that variation. Then sharp eyed Tom catches those slots on the trucks of the large numbered tender. A detail I never knew about either. 
I'll go out on a limb here and say I think my 282 is the large number version. Naturally when I go check it, I will be wrong. I'll check for those slots. 
I've never yet seen Tom miss a detail that most of us didn't notice. Hawkeye might be a better name Tom! lol. 

Kenny


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## alaft61ri (Oct 11, 2019)

I also have a tender with 3 holes its my 290.


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## skeeterbuck (Sep 29, 2015)

I think the two additional holes were for the 285 & 295 engines when they added the air chime "whistle" to let the sound out. They were subsequently used for all the tinplate tenders regardless if they had the speaker or not like the 282 & 290 engines as well as the Alantics. I can't remember ever seeing a tin tender with the slider pickup trucks as used with the air chime not have the 3 holes.


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