# Identifying HO scale Locos



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

I have recently returned to the hobby after a 60 year hiatus. Back in the '60s, I just bought a couple of F7As and went about enjoying the trains. Now I am a little more into the details and need help identifying the various locos that came with the used layout I purchased. Might as well just jump right in!

Is there a directory or similar that would help me identify the 25 or so locos, steam and diesel, that came with the layout? The various iterations of GPs, F7s, etc. have me a bit confused.

Thanks for any help.

East Houston


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

You could post pics here, and we could likely identify them for you....


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

East Houston said:


> I have recently returned to the hobby after a 60 year hiatus. Back in the '60s, I just bought a couple of F7As and went about enjoying the trains. Now I am a little more into the details and need help identifying the various locos that came with the used layout I purchased. Might as well just jump right in!
> 
> Is there a directory or similar that would help me identify the 25 or so locos, steam and diesel, that came with the layout? The various iterations of GPs, F7s, etc. have me a bit confused.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that many models, especially older ones, are "mutts", that is, a generic representation of a locomotive that could be painted in several different railroads' paint schemes (livery) for sale. Specific identifying details distinguishing different railroads and variations of the same model were usually missing. Modelers would customize the off-the-shelf models if those details were important.

These days, a number of manufacturers, especially in their higher end models, include railroad and variant-specific details in production versions, albeit at a higher cost. There are still mutts out there, but fewer now than before.

So, if you know it's an F7, that may be as close as you're going to get (the various GP's are more easily distinguished). But go ahead and post some pix, and we'll see what we can do.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yeah, what’d I say......?


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Old_Hobo said:


> You could post pics here, and we could likely identify them for you....


Here are some pics. I am not a highly rated photographer.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I guess we should have been a little more specific when we said "pix". For the steam, it helps to be able to see the wheel arrangements, and the diesels need to be close enough that we can see the roof and side detailing, and fully illuminated as well. Also maybe one per picture would make it easier to tell you what is what.

Is 6200 brass? I'm gonna say a 2-10-2 Santa Fe on that one; with the big yellow letters maybe a UP model, although I don't know that they ever ran any.

The Berskshire (?) in the second picture... don't recognize the livery and streamlining... although I'm sure someone else will.

Last one is an Alco PA and the corresponding B unit (prime mover and traction motors, but no cab). One of my favorite locos.

Lots of stuff in the middle that I need to take a closer look at. Probably some other folks will weigh in as well.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

The two Southern Pacific PA’s are likely Athearn, and the Pennsylvania FA1’s look to be Proto 2000....


----------



## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

You can Google many of these. This works best for diesels. Enter HO Road Name Road Number. This will usually bring up ebay or Pinterest listings with photos.

For instance the two diesels in your next to last photo: HO Santa Fe 8517. This leads to an ebay listing for an Athearn U33C.

The Amtrak 503 has ebay and Pinterest listings for an Athearn FP 45. It is an FP45. You have to be careful though because there’s also an Amtrak Dash-8 by Walthers #503. So you need to compare photos.

For steam use the same description but add the wheel arrangement 0-4-0 etc. Also called the Whyte Notation. As was previously mentioned, it’s important to show that clearly in photos. 
It doesn’t work all the time but it’s a good starting point. Give it a shot, see what you come up with, then take individual pics of the ones you can’t find and we can go from there.


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> I guess we should have been a little more specific when we said "pix". For the steam, it helps to be able to see the wheel arrangements, and the diesels need to be close enough that we can see the roof and side detailing, and fully illuminated as well. Also maybe one per picture would make it easier to tell you what is what.
> 
> Is 6200 brass? I'm gonna say a 2-10-2 Santa Fe on that one; with the big yellow letters maybe a UP model, although I don't know that they ever ran any.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your time. I appreciate the responses so far. I hope this set of photos are better.

There are no brass units. With all the different GPs, EMDs, GEs, etc., I wonder what I have in the collection I obtained.

The following descriptions should be in the same order as the photos.

Amtrax road diesel, builder unknown,road number 503.

Amtrax switcher, builder unknown, road number 88.

Autotrain diesel, Bachmann, road number 4000.

B&O steam, Bachmann, road number 5601.

B&O steam, Rivarossi, road number 6200.

GN diesel, Yugoslavia, road number 1186.

IC switcher, Yugoslavia, road number 420.

NYC diesels, MRC, road number 1830 and 2429, both units powered.

Pennsy diesels, Life Like with functional louvers, doors, bellows (closures between the units), and cooling fans. The lead "A" unit is Life Lke, road number 9620, powered, the "B" unit is Life Like, road number 9696, dummy, the trailing "A" unit is Life Like road number 9623, powered. The units connect with non-functional couplers.

Pennsy steam, Yugoslavia, road number 689.

SF, builder unknown, road number 8517.

SP steam, Bachmann, road number 4449.

SP diesesl, builder unknown, road numbers 6009 & 5915, "B" unit is a dummy.

Whoops, I guess I will have to break this into smaller pieces, 10 photos at a time. I cannot removed the canceled photos below, so I will send more replies.

Thank you,

John


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

East Houston said:


> Thank you for your time. I appreciate the responses so far. I hope this set of photos are better.
> 
> There are no brass units. With all the different GPs, EMDs, GEs, etc., I wonder what I have in the collection I obtained.
> 
> ...



Well, those were the Pennsy diesels, here are some more.


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

East Houston said:


> Well, those were the Pennsy diesels, here are some more.


and again


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

East Houston said:


> and again


Last time ....
I hope these photos have helped.
Thanks,
John


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

prrfan said:


> You can Google many of these. This works best for diesels. Enter HO Road Name Road Number. This will usually bring up ebay or Pinterest listings with photos.
> 
> For instance the two diesels in your next to last photo: HO Santa Fe 8517. This leads to an ebay listing for an Athearn U33C.
> 
> ...


Thanks prrfan. The wheel arrangement I understand, but the names; such as, Mikado, Consolidation, Mallet ... seem to apply to specific locos, but how are they defined?


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Maybe go with one or two locos at a time. The sheer volume makes it a tiring task to try to analyze each one of these posts -- I think that's at least part of the reason you don't have more responses. Even trying to help, my brain gives up pretty quick when I see a post with a dozen attachments. Eat the elephant in many small bites, not 2-3 big gulps.

That batch of photos is better, but still some issues -- some are blurry, many have light splash, some are too far away. People trying to identify locos are looking at the number and shape or various grills and screens, the overall shape of the unit, wheels arrangements, and so forth.

Can I ask what your intention is, here? Do you want to know what the real-life prototype for your equipment is (so you know what you're running), or are you looking for a description of the model, perhaps with an eye to selling it? Especially if the latter, you're going to need a couple of good, clear, well-lighted photos for a listing. 

Here's a place to start: Wikipedia. Whyte notation - Wikipedia will describe the steam locomotive identification by wheel arrangement; each type of loco (at least, all the common ones) has it's own article as well. Then each major manufacturer of diesel locomotives has it's own page: ALCO (American Locomotive Company, no longer in business) -- List of ALCO diesel locomotives - Wikipedia ; GE --List of GE locomotives - Wikipedia and EMD: List of EMD locomotives - Wikipedia . Each of those pages has photos of most models, and many types have their own articles. That should get you started.


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Maybe go with one or two locos at a time. The sheer volume makes it a tiring task to try to analyze each one of these posts -- I think that's at least part of the reason you don't have more responses. Even trying to help, my brain gives up pretty quick when I see a post with a dozen attachments. Eat the elephant in many small bites, not 2-3 big gulps.
> 
> That batch of photos is better, but still some issues -- some are blurry, many have light splash, some are too far away. People trying to identify locos are looking at the number and shape or various grills and screens, the overall shape of the unit, wheels arrangements, and so forth.
> 
> ...


I am sorry for the overload, I am trying to identify which locos I have and understand what someone means by a Consolidated, a Niagra, or a GP35, and so forth. I am probably not going to sell the units in the photos, I have a separate box of those. I have looked at some of the lists you mentioned, but have trouble matching the real life photo with the unit on the layout. One responder suggested searching through EBAY and I will try that approach.
Thanks for the responses,


----------



## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

The Illinois Central and Amtrak switchers are Plymouth Industrial diesel switchers made my Mehano in Yugoslavia. They are almost identical internally

The IC is usually sold under the AHM brand.








AHM Plymouth MDT Switcher - HO-Scale Trains Resource


Cumulatively, AHM's catalog included more industrial diesel switcher types, known as "critters" to many railfans, than any other hobby manufacturer. This Plymouth MDT Switcher features a design that saw release across N- and O-scale, as well as HO for AHM.




ho-scaletrains.com




But also many other brands sold it.

The Amtrak is usually sold as Model Power. Its hugely overscale to the point that some have used it for narrow gauge O scale.
More recently I think Production was moved to China. There was even a DCC version made for a brief time before the line was discontinued and the tooling sold to Lionel.

As others have said, the Southern Pacific PA locos look like Athearn.


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Eilif said:


> The Illinois Central and Amtrak switchers are Plymouth Industrial diesel switchers made my Mehano in Yugoslavia. They are almost identical internally
> 
> The IC is usually sold under the AHM brand.
> 
> ...


Thanks Eilif,
Very helpful.


----------



## prrfan (Dec 19, 2014)

East Houston said:


> Thanks prrfan. The wheel arrangement I understand, but the names; such as, Mikado, Consolidation, Mallet ... seem to apply to specific locos, but how are they defined?


You have embarked on a huge field of research. Several of our members are real experts in the minute details of locomotives but good to get a basic understanding first.
Google all the types you mentioned for starters.
This may be a good reference:








Guide to north american steam locomotives


Read Guide to north american steam locomotives by Alco714 on Issuu and browse thousands of other publications on our platform. Start here!




issuu.com


----------



## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

East Houston said:


> Thanks Eilif,
> Very helpful.


You're very welcome.
The Great Northern diesel is a GP18 made by AHM. Some of these are pretty smooth running 8WD.

The Blue Santa Fe and Auto train are both "U-Boats" made by Athearn. I don't know the specific model but putting "Athearn, _Road Name, Number_" into google will let you know.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Eilif said:


> You're very welcome.
> The Great Northern diesel is a GP18 made by AHM. Some of these are pretty smooth running 8WD.


Maybe smooth running, but pretty rough looking.....


----------



## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Old_Hobo said:


> Maybe smooth running, but pretty rough looking.....


Ha! That's true. Thr plastic rails are integral to the frame and look all busted off, but some Athearn stanchions and wire could have it looking halfway decent.

I'd still like to get one of these in the orange AMTRAK MOW livery.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

East Houston said:


> I am sorry for the overload, I am trying to identify which locos I have and understand what someone means by a Consolidated, a Niagra, or a GP35, and so forth. I am probably not going to sell the units in the photos, I have a separate box of those. I have looked at some of the lists you mentioned, but have trouble matching the real life photo with the unit on the layout. One responder suggested searching through EBAY and I will try that approach.
> Thanks for the responses,


Well, yes, it's a ton of information to assimilate, but you need to start doing it. Just on the steam, every wheel notation has a "name", sometimes more than one, associated with it. Does it do you any good to know that you have a "Consolidation" of you don't know what that means? I'll help you on that one -- it's a steam locomotive with a wheel configuration of 2-8-0 -- two non-powered wheels (one axle) under the pilot of the locomotive, 8 drivers (powered wheels) and 0 trailing (unpowered wheels). The rest of the steam works the same way.

Likewise, a lot of the diesels look similar at first glance. You need to start getting a feel for what an ALCO diesel looks like. How about a GE model? What is it that makes it one or the other? Otherwise, just run your GN diesel. Does it really matter if it's a GP-18 or a GP-25? GP and SD models are made by EMD.


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

And for people responding, the OP is not looking to identify what brand of model he has (Athearn, Atlas, Model Power, etc). He wants to know what REAL WORLD make and model locomotive it represents.


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

CTValleyRR said:


> Well, yes, it's a ton of information to assimilate, but you need to start doing it. Just on the steam, every wheel notation has a "name", sometimes more than one, associated with it. Does it do you any good to know that you have a "Consolidation" of you don't know what that means? I'll help you on that one -- it's a steam locomotive with a wheel configuration of 2-8-0 -- two non-powered wheels (one axle) under the pilot of the locomotive, 8 drivers (powered wheels) and 0 trailing (unpowered wheels). The rest of the steam works the same way.
> 
> Likewise, a lot of the diesels look similar at first glance. You need to start getting a feel for what an ALCO diesel looks like. How about a GE model? What is it that makes it one or the other? Otherwise, just run your GN diesel. Does it really matter if it's a GP-18 or a GP-25? GP and SD models are made by EMD.


CT Valley,
Thanks you for the response. I am trying to be better able to recognize the various models and talk somewhat intelligently about what is running on the layout. Also, I would like to be aware of what locos should be pulling freight and/or passenger cars.


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Eilif said:


> Ha! That's true. Thr plastic rails are integral to the frame and look all busted off, but some Athearn stanchions and wire could have it looking halfway decent.
> 
> I'd still like to get one of these in the orange AMTRAK MOW livery.


I am told the previous owner's grandkids got into the layout, but did not know you had to have electricity to run the things. So they pushed the locos and cars around by hand; lots of damage to couplers and small details, but mostly repairable.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It can take a while to learn all the types and makers.....I am fairly comfortable with all the older locomotives, but I couldn’t tell you anything about the modern ones, just not interested.....but I have been doing this since 1986, so......


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Someone mentioned my Pennsy FA2 units were Proto 2000; however, the chassis are stamped Life Like. From some searching, it appears Proto 2000 and Life Like are one and the same. Is this true? There appears to be some history here.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Life Like stepped up their game and produced the Proto 2000 line back in the 90’s.....Walthers bought Life Like about 16 years ago, and now produce the Proto 2000 line as their Walthers Proto line......


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Thanks Old Hobo,
There seems to have been a lot of buying, selling, and consolidation among the model train manufacturers over the years.


----------



## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

East Houston said:


> Thanks Old Hobo,
> There seems to have been a lot of buying, selling, and consolidation among the model train manufacturers over the years.


That's very true. Some model train tooling has passed through several companies over many years.
Here's a case study tracking one example over 6 decades.








Evolution of the Varney 40' Gondola. Update 12/30/19!


UPDATE 12/30/19. A friend comes through with another clone for comparison. Jump to the end to see. One of the interesting aspects of the...




chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com


----------



## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

East Houston said:


> Someone mentioned my Pennsy FA2 units were Proto 2000; however, the chassis are stamped Life Like. From some searching, it appears Proto 2000 and Life Like are one and the same. Is this true? There appears to be some history here.


Lifelike made 3 product lines, the regular LifeLike models(Tyco trainset quality), and their higher end Proto 1000 and top of the line Proto 2000.

After the Walthers acquisition, the basic LifeLike went away (Walthers rebranded their basic models "Trainline"), and Proto 1000 (or 1K) and Proto 2000 (2K) became Walthers Mainline and Walthers Proto, respectively. Proto 2K, now just Proto, remains among the best plastic models you can buy -- silky smooth drive trains and highly detailed.

One issue that DID plague early Proto 2K locos was a tendency for their drive gears to crack. Fortunately, it's a pretty easy fix.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Yes, those gears were cracked brand new, in the box....very few of those early ones were not cracked......

However, the fix was/is easy, and when fixed, they are amongst the best running locomotives around.....I have 22 of them.....


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

My FA2s are quiet running; so I assume no cracked gears. I guess the gears you mention are in the trucks. 

The only problem I have with the FA2s is the drive belt for the radiator fans. Any idea where I can find them or should I just find a rubber band to fit?

The link that Eilif sent was very interesting. I just finished a book on Lionel manufacturering where the tooling was valuable enough to warrant storage vaults.

Interesting. Thanks to all for the information.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Just find a rubber band to fit.....I doubt you can get original replacement parts on those, they are long out of production now, and parts are no longer available from Life-like, as we have discussed.....


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Thanks Old Hobo. Just as the rubber bands from my braces fit the old Athern locos.


----------



## East Houston (Feb 18, 2021)

Eilif said:


> Ha! That's true. Thr plastic rails are integral to the frame and look all busted off, but some Athearn stanchions and wire could have it looking halfway decent.
> 
> I'd still like to get one of these in the orange AMTRAK MOW livery.


I finally found an old shell with metal stanchions and wire that fit fairly well. The loco looks much better and it is still a good, quiet runner.


----------



## Murray (3 mo ago)

Hey guys quick question if you can. I bought this Walthers 1907 UPS engine and I'm unable to find any info on it. Second is this Pennsylvania I can't figure out how to open the shell. Is it these tabs I circled? Thank you guys


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Walthers made that UPS locomotive in the early 90's. It was only availabe to UPS employees. I believe there were only 300 of them made…..


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

The PRR loco is a Tyco version of the EMD SD24. There should be several of those tabs along each side. I never like that pry bar method of removing shells but that was how things were done.


----------



## Murray (3 mo ago)

OilValleyRy said:


> The PRR loco is a Tyco version of the EMD SD24. There should be several of those tabs along each side. I never like that pry bar method of removing shells but that was how things were done.





Old_Hobo said:


> Walthers made that UPS locomotive in the early 90's. It was only availabe to UPS employees. I believe there were only 300 of them made…..
> View attachment 590493





Old_Hobo said:


> Walthers made that UPS locomotive in the early 90's. It was only availabe to UPS employees. I believe there were only 300 of them made…..
> View attachment 590493


That’s pretty cool. This one is super clean but unfortunately no front trucks or motor.


----------



## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

You could try to find the same type of locomotive, and cannabalize it for the parts you need…..I doubt that you will be able to find another UPS locomotive, as only 300 were ever made for UPS employees….


----------



## Murray (3 mo ago)

Old_Hobo said:


> You could try to find the same type of locomotive, and cannabalize it for the parts you need…..I doubt that you will be able to find another UPS locomotive, as only 300 were ever made for UPS employees….


I’ll put it up on the shelf and wait for a donor to cross my path


----------



## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Murray said:


> I’ll put it up on the shelf and wait for a donor to cross my path


Or purchase an identical unit in another scheme that you like; having the option to change the shells periodically.

And I’m not sure what type of loco that is, but the type is what you’d want to use as search parameters regarding parts. I.e. a GE 8-40CW locomotive.


----------

