# Help with Brass Engine Project



## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

This is a brass engine that was given to me. The only thing I know about it is what a Lionel repair guy told me: "The brass is a Japanese Tenshoda import, which probably goes back to the 50s or 60s. It is missing too many parts for me to repair it. If it was me, I would put it on eBay and hope there are several oldtimers out there with the right parts in their parts boxes to bid on it.". 

I would really like to keep it and restore it to be able to display on my work bench. I tested the motor and it does work, but needs the brushes cleaned. What I would like to determine for sure is: Is it a GP? If so what series? If replacement parts are available, where can I find them? Will another manufacture's trucks and maybe motor work in the frame?

Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated 

Link to album: http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?albumid=290


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I think you will need a doner. There are a lot of parts missing. What part of NC are you in?


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Southern. I'm in Charlotte.


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

Looks to be an early Geep, fitting an Athearn drive into that would take a bit of doing but not out of the ordinary...


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

What do you mean by "geep" Shay and is there anywhere on the internet that I could found how to do that?


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

This is a place where the fellow who said he can't fix it, may not mean exactly that. What he likely should have said is that he can't fix it at a price you would pay! That leaves a bigger question. Do you have the grit to learn how to fix it yourself? That is one way to get it done and at a price you can pay. I'm afraid the answer may be that you are not ready for that size project. It WILL take grit to do it. Grit, vast amounts of time and some expense but mostly lots of work. Looking at it as a project, I would first look at getting it running again. Since that requires getting the cover off, that's just my thinking. Then you will likely need to "invent" some parts. Those two red blobs of plastic look like all that is left of a flexible drive shaft connecting the motor to the truck. I would look for a replacement but in the meantime, I would make one. The handrails can be repaired, straightened of replaced. Can you solder or learn? You may need it to repair the can. Just some starters to think about. The missing topside parts might be replaced with plastic parts which are available. 
Odds are good that you are looking at a GP-7. At that time frame there were not dozens of options yet. GP-7's were mass produced in large numbers. Look over some pictures and look at door, fan and vents to see if that matches. It may not match exactly and that was true of many even when they were new. It was a time when models were not produced to be exact but more to represent the item. 

Best of luck, looks like a fun project to while away a lot of long nights!


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Pfun. I can solder and have a few projects under my belt, but your are correct, nothing on this scale. I have looked and some of these brass engines sell for a good bit on eBay, so the cost of rebuilding it is a factor as well. I find projects fascinating!!! Especially when I know nothing about it!!! LOL. I see this as my only chance really to owe one, so I think I will give it ago!


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## D1566 (Jun 8, 2012)

I made a flexible drive sleeve for a Tenshodo loco out of electrical wire sheathing; just a case of looking for the right size; needs to be a tight fit over the shafts.

This could be worth a look:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRASS-HO-...el_RR_Trains&hash=item19dc32ce00#ht_27wt_1154


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Hey D, thanks for the reply! Thats sound doable and I checked out the eBay engine, looks nice, very nice!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I Am Fasha said:


> What do you mean by "geep" Shay and is there anywhere on the internet that I could found how to do that?


Geep refers to Athearn's older GP7, GP35, GP40, etc... 

The "How to" would better come from older Model Railroader mags when fixes like this were rather common.


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## D1566 (Jun 8, 2012)

shaygetz said:


> Geep refers to Athearn's older GP7, GP35, GP40, etc....


Just to be pedantic; doesn't it actually refer to *GM EMDs *older GP7 etc models?


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Okay I got it Sha and that is a good point. I will see what I can find on their website, ty!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

D1566 said:


> Just to be pedantic; doesn't it actually refer to *GM EMDs *older GP7 etc models?


Yes...but in this case...it was to those specific models that were made, especially the GP9 that this particular brass model is so similar to.


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

To make drivelines, you can also use flexible silicone fuel tubing intended for RC airplanes. I've done this on a few Athearn diesels with reasonable success. The key is to use the correct ID to fit over the motor shaft.... Some shimming may be required but can be easily accomplished with a bit of heat shrink tubing.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks Smoke for the reply and info. I have a friend who flies those planes. Im calling him today


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

There may be another good product to try for the drive line. Heat shrink tubing comes in lots of different sizes and pretty cheap. By itself it is not strong enough to resist the twisting but if you use something like a dowel, small pipe, etc. as the center of the driveline and place heatshrink over it, you will have a way to get a really tight fit at the ends. I use the tip of the soldering iron too shrink it to fit. Then if it still tends to slip as power is applied, I have drilled a tiny hole through at the end and used wire to pin it together to stop slipping. It will need to flex so you can't use a solid item for the full length. Harbor Freight for heat shrink??


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Sounds like a good place to start P! Thanks for the reply and the info! If you happen to have a lead on where ibvant find another truck that would be awesome! Also does anyone know if the other truck would be powered?


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

Sorry, I did not notice that there was a truck missing! Wow, That may be a biggie to solve. If the motor has shafts out both ends and sets in the middle, then it is likely the second truck was powered. Perhaps you can tell by looking for how the motor and trucks might have fit together?


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

From what I can tell, the motor only has one shaft going toward the truck that is attached. But what befuddles me is, on the bottom side of the loco, there is a shaft coming out of that truck headed to where the fuel tank would normally be. So wjat was the purpose of that shaft? So, if you look only at the motor, you would think the loco is a single powered truck unit. But if one looks at the shaft coming out of the truck....


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I Am Fasha said:


> From what I can tell, the motor only has one shaft going toward the truck that is attached. But what befuddles me is, on the bottom side of the loco, there is a shaft coming out of that truck headed to where the fuel tank would normally be. So wjat was the purpose of that shaft? So, if you look only at the motor, you would think the loco is a single powered truck unit. But if one looks at the shaft coming out of the truck....


That would go to power the rear truck, a common practice back then. One of the reasons I suggested Athearn drive parts is that they could easily replicate the type trucks that model already has, as well as proved a way to repower it with a modern can motor and/or flywheel set up inside the shell...much like I did this ancient Varney>>>


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the pics and info again sir! I may have to go that route to get the little guy running.


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

Got to admit that I never looked at brass close enough to see how they were powered! One look at the price and I kept on moving! What Shay suggests may , in fact, be the way to go. It would give you a way to get matching trucks as well as totally upgrade the running. The original rebuilt to factory specs will NOT be a good runner. 
Decisions, huh? The works not bad but the decisions are rough!


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree Pf. Im torn between make it original and running it or putting a new undercarriage in and then deciding if I will paint it or leave it Brass. Pulling my hair out here, but the lack of available parts are helping me with my choice. I really never thought I would have one because of the cost. Now Im leaning why they cost so much :-O


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I think it might need a trip to the Southern Seaboard Cost Line back shops.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Southern said:


> I think it might need a trip to the Southern Seaboard Cost Line back shops.


Oh if it was just that easy! Lol

Good evening sir, how are you?


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

Brass has always been nice to dream about but never really looked like it was for me due to expense. I was always more into aquiring more stuff to use. Now that personal finances are better, my want list is different as well! 

I never really felt they were overpriced for the work involved. Each engine was almost a work of art when looking at steam. The Geeps were a bit less than the steam but still very nice. A lot of fun can be found in learning the process needed to do some of the things we need, so you may find it all fun to do even if the resulting engine is not the best on the block. 

Enjoy!


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## shaygetz (Sep 23, 2007)

I remember as a kid in this hobby thinking, "Who would want a diesel in brass?"...:laugh:


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree with both of you lol. I cant imagine when the hobby was only brass wow! But yea, this is turning into a fun adventure!


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

The other option you have to get affordable brass is to take a regular old Athearn (or whatever) plastic model, add a few details, and hit it with some gold spray paint. My neighbor has done this with a few diesels and he laughs every time it fools one of his snobbier train buddies.....


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

If you feel its beyond your ablities, I repair older brass, have parts to some degree and can make that old Tenshodo run good. I have taken several of those, put new drive shafting in them and usualy a NWSL can motor with single flywheel. Working on brass can be tricky or easy depending on the model. The Tenshodo drive works good with a can motor, they pull well and are quite smooth. You will still have some gear noise but its not near as bad as the Alco/Kumata style spur gear drive. I can even point you to some custom painters or sometimes I can paint them depending on the road name/paint scheme. I have run nothing but brass for several years now. I just put a Sagami can motor in my Tenshodo USRA 0-8-0 steam engine. Runs like a fine swiss watch! Mike


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Mike! 

Im not sure if it is beyond my abilities, I feel more comfortable about tackling it now that when I first started this post. I have been doing some research online and it would appear that 90 % of the problem is finding the parts. Now if I cant find the parts, then I may need someone to guide me through this lol as we go about making some parts and retooling other parts. Im good with wire and a soldering iron. If you are interested in walking me though this, I would appreciate the help and we could post what we are doing here to help others who my find themselves in a similar situation? Or send me a PM and we can do it that way and discuss fees, if any


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

Its not something that can really be taught over emails ect, most of what I learned came from doing on my own trains and perfecting my practices till I was comfortable doing for others as a side business to support my hobby. Most of what your engine needs is replacement parts, mostly drive shafts from the look of the pics. I use shafting from the old hobbytown of boston line, which you would be able to get but I have a small stash of. Your other option is Athearn drive shaft componuts or North West Short Line, both available from better hobby shops. I also have the ablity to resolder loose parts to some extent, although I need to one day get a resistance soldering unit. Mike


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

I can agree with you Mike about doing over email. Lets start with this. The missing truck. Was it a powered truck? You mentioned getting replacements parts from the old hobbytown of boston line. Is that a company that is still around? If not, do you have a working truck that I could buy from you? I would really like to put it back together as it came. As far as painting, I havent even gotten that far lol. But If I did paint it, I think I would like to leave it as is, maybe shine up the shell and run it like that. It anything, just as decals for a road name.


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## mtoney (Oct 6, 2012)

hobbytown is long gone, but parts can be found on ebay. Same for the missing truck. Both trucks were powered, one from the motor, the other had a drive shaft thru the fuel tank area under the frame from the motor powered truck. Your almost better off to find a decent but cheap Tenshodo GP7/9 on ebay and use yours for spare parts. Or watch for a junker to rob parts from. This is what I have to do when I dont have the spare parts for models that are long out of production or the company is long gone. Mike


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## rrbill (Mar 11, 2012)

I feel that Mike has given you some good advice about what to do with your Tenshodo locomotive in order to get it operational. It appears to be Tenshodo's version of GM's ElectroMotive Division GP-7 or GP-9. The GP-7 came with 3 sets of cooling louvers below the cab side, while the later GP-9 came with one set of these louvers. I guess Tenshodo said two louver sets is about right.
Tenshodo was an early HO brass locomotive maker when there wasn't too much competition. Later importers tried to make their models even more authentically detailed, and still later importers began using can motors to more smoothly power their models.
Please let us see how you proceed in reworking your locomotive.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Very true RR and thanks for the info. I've been surfing eBay everyday and I've got a few leads on some parts. One guy has a frame with two trucks and another guy is looking through his old parts for me now. **** fingers crossed


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

UPDATE!!!

The Brass Gods have smile upon me 

After weeks of reading, surfing, begging/borrowing/but not stealing, I received two packages in the mail over the weekend. Combining the contents of both packages, you will see the results below in the pictures.

Total investment? $31 WOOHOO!!!!

So now I need to get busy and start figuring this out. Any suggestions on what to tackle first? Incidentally the two black looking trucks are brass.


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

I would suggest----without having done this? 

I think some decisions have to be made on the paint. Seems like the last step except that IF you do want to repaint, you may want to remove the old paint first. That may involve soaking to strip the paint. Don't want to add a bunch of parts and find they can't be soaked! Count and check parts to match, clean/strip paint, straighten anything and then reassemble might be my plan. 

Can I suggest a couple aspirin and a good nights sleep first?


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply P. You bring up a good point. Painting would seem to be last on the list, but while it is in pieces may be the best time to do it. Honestly I'm struggling with the idea of painting or leaving it undecorated and just cleaning it good and then sealing it.


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## Pfunmo (Feb 21, 2013)

I know what you mean about the decisions on painting. I never got too close to buying into a brass engine but there was always the lurking question of what to do about paint. Some say it is no point to have a brass engine if it is painted and nobody knows it is brass!!! But then my engines were always for me to enjoy and not for show.


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## I Am Fasha (Apr 2, 2013)

Another great point. Well two points. Hard to know its brass if painted. And being your RR. I'm struggling to keep it based on the history of the Clinchfield, but at same time, you have to keep it fun!


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