# # 313 Bascule Bridge



## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Got my bridge in.
Going to start cleaning it up.

A few pictures of the start of the rebuild.











A few pictures for the T Man
Have you ever worked on these T?
Needs a complete tuneup lot of gunk on it. Though it does run fairly well.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Sorry, I haven't done much in accessories. Looks like fun!


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I like it!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

This is what T -man tells you to clean up. The armature assembly
You think its a little dirty?

The brushes were so oil soaked that they dripped when they came out.
I don't know how it even ran.:laugh:
I think someone was oiling the thing!

Picture shows plainly the gunked up slots to get clean and that copper is supposed to be nice and shiny not black.

I used a little Methylene Chloride from my private stock on a q tip,toothpick and soft rag (my high tech cleaning utensils ) and all is like brand new now. 
Nice and shiny now no sanding required. Though I did a little anyway.
Some one also taped the light wire instead of soldering it. You can see it under the brush plate. I fixed that too. 
I don't know why but they had the wire wrapped around a lever that turns too, nice work they did.

I put it together and forgot to take a picture.. Duh me.

All the old grease is off and new lube in place on the gears.

It runs like a champ now.










I think I will add some weathering to the all ready weathering that's there.
Most of the old RR bridges on the road I see are all rusted and dirty


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Do you trust the wires?

Like the pictures. Now I have to find a basket case bridge.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Do you trust the wires?
> 
> Like the pictures. Now I have to find a basket case bridge.


No not really they are old.

I need a new terminal rubber piece where you screw the wires on. They are held on to the base just by the rubber piece that in time gets hard and brittle. Mine is broken.

Shown in the picture.








It's hard to find replacement parts for this bridge. I did find one guy on e bay though his prices are high.
I have not found the rubber piece yet. But I can secure it somehow. You can find the lifting rods. The motor I can't find any and the gears or gear rods I can't find either. 
They must have used this motor in another item, but I can't find any info on it either.

If you buy a basket case you might have to fabricate some of the stuff you need to rebuild it.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

For the rubber use a fiberglass circuit board cut to fit. They have them without any copper just holes. Paint it black if you have too.

The motor is a 313m-1 fromthe Olsen Library but no pictures.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> For the rubber use a fiberglass circuit board cut to fit. They have them without any copper just holes. Paint it black if you have too.
> 
> The motor is a 313m-1 fromthe Olsen Library but no pictures.


No need to paint it black as you can't see it anyway.

I was going to call Olsen up and tell him to send me 30 of the engines for $3 a piece you can't go wrong. LOL :laugh:



You ever see any of these T? I have been watching them on e bay. Over in around 4 hrs. They have three different ones for sale. I sure would like to get one but not for what they are going for!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190363297679&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220536782761&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190363297647&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


I put in all three for you to look at in case it's over before you log in here. check them out.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I did see them . I wasn't awareof the prices. In my childhood some neighbors had two of the boats. They were prized because they were owned by their father. They are around you never know.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I saw a dealer, this weekend, selling lil stamped-tin boats (new). They were like the runabout in the first pic, but simpler in design. Beneath the deck, a tiny alcohol lamp burned, conducting heat to a little kettle of water in the rear via a tin strip. The water heated and boiled, the steam exited beneath the transom, pushing the boat slowly around the tub of water they sat in. JUST THE THING FOR T-MAN TO BUILD.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

but then he would have to join a model boat forum.:laugh:

how much was it?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Reckers said:


> I saw a dealer, this weekend, selling lil stamped-tin boats (new). They were like the runabout in the first pic, but simpler in design. Beneath the deck, a tiny alcohol lamp burned, conducting heat to a little kettle of water in the rear via a tin strip. The water heated and boiled, the steam exited beneath the transom, pushing the boat slowly around the tub of water they sat in. JUST THE THING FOR T-MAN TO BUILD.


Why didn't you buy it for me?:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

I actually considered it---decided it was essentially stamped-tin junk on the level of the lil metal cricket-clickers we got when we were kids. I hate to load friends up with useless 'gifts' they then feel compelled to hang onto. If I send you something, Ed, I guarantee it will be something that won't run and will have come by being useless honestly.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Sorry I have plenty of projects.

E bay had some motors for the bridge for sale. They sold I couldn't find them.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The only thing I have done is a little weathering to this.
Been working at work to darn much! No Time for anything!

I decided to just go with a weathered look.

I got a lot to go on it yet.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Being Jersey and all....seems there outa be a body floating out there, under the bridge....*L*


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Being Jersey and all, they stopped that by removing the river.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

*LOL*...being Jersey and all, it just kinda sedimented up and stopped flowing!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Still, I think the bridge is cool. Is it working?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

T-Man said:


> Still, I think the bridge is cool. Is it working?



It works but what you see is where it sits. 
Waiting for a spot to put it.
And has a lot of weathering to go.

Makes a bunch of noise when the motor is working too.
I wonder if that is normal?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It would make a lot of noise. The motor is mounted on a metal plate. Try to add some rubber?


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## ClassicBoatworks (Jan 9, 2014)

Hello,
New guy here. I have recently become interested in buying and selling old toys including trains. I am currently working on a Bascule bridge 313 as shown here and have a couple questions. My friend Buba obviously worked on this bridge in the past.

1. Now that the motor is all cleaned up how do I test before re-installing? 

2. I took apart the switch on the gear box as shown in the last picture above. It consists of 4 "leaves". I carefully marked which wires go to which posts but forgot to note the order of the two center leaves. Does this matter?

One of the leaves is bent. Are they together without power or open? Is that a part I can replace? I don't know what they are controlling. 

3. I am missing posts, Buba put in screws, can I get these parts?

4. The base is broken, my plan is to clean it up and with some kind of plate "gluing" it with JB Weld. I am tempted to try to braze it but I have never had good luck brazing. Bring it to a pro? I kind of hate to do that because I think that will me re-paint which I am trying to avoid.

I bought the K-Line service manual but it is not very helpful on the mechanics.
I am sure I will have more questions in the future!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hey that is my 313. 

Just seeing this, I will have more time Friday or this weekend to check out your questions more. I have no time to right now got to get up real early Friday.

You don't need the base to use the bridge, a lot don't use it. I don't like the base myself as when you raise the bridge the base is still sitting there. Not too realistic. 

Jeff the train tender has a reproduction base for $25 and a real one for $50.
http://www.ttender.com/partslist.html

Page 3 is where the 313 parts are listed. Some parts might be elsewhere as they might be used on different items. Best to call Jeff and see if he has what you need.


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## ClassicBoatworks (Jan 9, 2014)

Thanks. Sleep well.
I don't mean the frame the track fits on but the base the bridge, motor, etc attach to.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ClassicBoatworks said:


> Hello,
> New guy here. I have recently become interested in buying and selling old toys including trains. I am currently working on a Bascule bridge 313 as shown here and have a couple questions. My friend Buba obviously worked on this bridge in the past.
> 
> 1. Now that the motor is all cleaned up how do I test before re-installing?
> ...



( Pictures came out too large! Hit control and minus to re-size the screen.)

Let me tell you first I have not worked on this much. You can see by my pictures I need new wires and other parts under there. The post insulator piece is cracked. I guess this would be a contact board in his parts list?
As far as testing if you look at one of the old pictures above you can see that I hooked up 2 wires to test it. I don't know if that was the right way to do it but it raised and lowered the span.
And let me add I am an electrical dummy too. 

This picture with the "leaves" is this the switch your talking about? It has four leaves? I color coded them in the second picture to show where each one goes.
The blue on the top off center leave, goes to the first post.
The red top center leave, goes to the second post.
The yellow off center bottom leave, goes to the third post.
The orange bottom center leave, goes to the fourth post.
That switch has a part number but I can only make out the 313 I can't see what the other number is. I can't see a switch listed on the parts site, but that is not to say he doesn't have one. 

The part # for the base you talk about is 313-50 I guess you know this already. The switch? 
You would be best to call Jeff, he might have the switch listed somewhere else or knows of another to take it's place. Same thing for the posts, I am sure they are sold. They must be. The base? Ask him to about that. Most likely you will have to look for a junk 313 parts lot for the base?

I don't know if all this helped you any?
There are a few others here that have this, they should be able to tell you exactly where and what each wire does. I guess mine is hooked up right but I don't know if someone fooled with them throughout it's life. I guess they are right as everything looks original.
I will search and see who the others are if they stay silent here and send them a PM, maybe they can provide something for you. 

I don't know why someone has not said anything yet? :dunno: That is how this forum works sometimes you get 500 views and not one comment.:dunno::smokin:

Let me know if somehow I can be of more help or can take more pictures.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

It cool ed, but I don't think a lot of people have one. That's why the views and no help.


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## ClassicBoatworks (Jan 9, 2014)

Thank you. Your comments are helpful. Now I have to get to work. I don't think I want to pay $50 for a new base. I can fix this one with a little effort.
Thanks again,
Dean


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That base I listed is not the engine base but the gang plank base. ( the part the goes up and down.)

SJM...true but there are many many more threads that gets a lot of views and no comments good or bad. Nothing zilch. A few do have this bridge, I will have to search for them, they might be of more help on the 313 then I can be.

Why don't you go buy one so you can add here? 

You want mine for a blue and orange locomotive you have?


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## ClassicBoatworks (Jan 9, 2014)

The Train Tender (Jeff?) has the base part number 313-46 which matches my base. He mentions "original Madison". What does the Madison refer to?
Thanks,
Dean


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ClassicBoatworks said:


> The Train Tender (Jeff?) has the base part number 313-46 which matches my base. He mentions "original Madison". What does the Madison refer to?
> Thanks,
> Dean


Sorry I was attending to some other things. I filled some propane cans when it was real cold. now that it got a little warmer the safety valve was letting some propane out real slow. It expanded a little by the warm weather I guess, so I had to burn some off with my portable heater. Now I got to keep an eye on the cans. 

Your right about the base, I thought the was for the track base. Epoxy does wonders, our T Man is a master of fixing things with epoxy. How bad is it can you post a picture?

Madison, was a now famous old Lionel train store in NYC.
In the history books now all gone, we have threads here I think I will dig something up.

Old Madison parts are sought after by some.
If it says LIMITED that means once gone he might not get again or for a while.


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## ClassicBoatworks (Jan 9, 2014)

The base is broken in half where the tracks go. I just realized the base has been repainted. Remember my friend Buba? If I were a betting man my money goes on Buba breaking it when he decided it needed fresh paint. So back to work.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I think I would keep Bubba away from my trains! 

Whereabouts is the crack, JB weld works wonders.

Maybe add something underneath? A strip of metal then add the weld?
Is it a clean break?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I can't find the thread on the old Madison hardware store that was in NYC.

Here are some old pictures you can see the place was long and skinny but he packed a lot of Lionel in it. He even made some of his own Lionel stuff from left over parts. At one time I think Lionel asked him to stop. That is another story if I find it I will post.

The pictures are not the best, but you get the ideal, famous people stopped there to pick up trains back in the old days. He had a TON of stuff crammed in there.


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## ClassicBoatworks (Jan 9, 2014)

Yes, my thoughts exactly. I might add a couple pins to keep everything aligned.


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

Ed, thanks for digging up the shots of Madison hardware and it's two owners, Lou and Carl. Although never there, in '56 I got them to send me a few Lionel catalogs, and I dreamt over those for years, so even a kid from the prairies of Canada got to feel the Madison touch, and there have been many good articles in OGR and CTT written about those two, the way they sold their inventory before closing to Richard Kughn, etc. Great stories about two men from another era. Appropriate, considering that for many Lionel train owners and fans, the heyday of Lionel was also certainly from another era. Personally, I'll take fixable postwar Lionel over anything else. I have no keen desire yet for hand-held controlling, but when I start a better, more scale-like layout in the future, I'm pretty certain I'll upgrade to Legacy, but for now, if I could transport back in time, I'd be at the window of Madison Hardware, checking my pockets to see how much I could spend inside 'train valhalla'...


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## hedgehog (Feb 21, 2014)

weren't they on 23st and park ave. I bought my train there about 55 years ago


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

hedgehog said:


> weren't they on 23st and park ave. I bought my train there about 55 years ago


Yep, that is where they were located.

You should have had them autograph your train boxes, Madison Hardware will be marked in train history forever.


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## tooter (Feb 26, 2010)

Thanks for posting the pics, Ed. 

Seeing a shop like that really brings back memories. They were my crack cocaine dealers, and I was the addict! :laugh:










Allied Model Trains used to be one of the largest train stores in Los Angeles. That was before the internet.


Greg


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

That picture is too neat.

The old Madison Hardware was packed floor to ceiling, wall to wall trains.
You wonder how they knew where anything was.

I was never there, but from the stories I read and pictures I see, I see what I missed.


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## hedgehog (Feb 21, 2014)

I sold my trains a real long time ago now Im thinking of getting back in I all ready bought a few items


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

I mounted mine to an aluminium piece. No flex and it allows me to span an open area. Apparently there is a wire contacting that base as there is track voltage there. I have to add an insulated spacer.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

What is this back there?


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

Verde Clemenceau smokestack. The yellow building is the smelter, made from the actual smokestack bricks. I removed the mine pictures to mount on card stock


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I had to look that up. 
You mean like one of these?









Found that here,
http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=74&SubSectionID=696&ArticleID=33302


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

That is one of the photos I have as a backdrop. I believe this pic is the clemenseau stack. The foundation of this stack is now a patio for a church on the hill. 
i use two other photos of the Jerome mine behind the smelter.


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

Oh. The caption states that it is Clarkdale smelter, which was a metal stack just as mine is. My world is a blend....


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

I should point out that clarkdale is just a few miles from clenenseau Clark and Douglas were the two competing mining barons of these operations


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Found this while searching, pictures you might recognize some?

http://flickrhivemind.net/flickr_hv...er&originput=arizona,smelter&search_type=Tags


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

Some are my "back yard". Many others from 25 years roaming Az. I didnt know flikr


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

...could b used lime this. Time to play on the big computer for a better look
Thanks


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## BWA (Jun 16, 2012)

Nice, too bad these are so Spendy, I need 4 of them. My layout will have two main lines going right across the entrance to my layout room. Need two bridges on each line, facing each other to bridge the gap.


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## AmericaWestLines (Apr 7, 2014)

That I want to see ! It s all about priorities. A month without food is a small price to pay


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