# Lionel 675 & 6466WX Restore Help



## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Well I received my 675 & 6466WX today and man this is going to be fun. I knew being I only paid $55 including shipping it would be a project. And I was right. I know there are probabily many threads touching on all things I'll need to learn already but I think it will be easier for me to keep up with this one alone. These cars are going to need some heavy restore and I'll start by explaining what they are doing right now. I'll also attach photo's so you all can see the progress. Mind you this is my first rebuild and I'm not very good at soldering so keep the laughs down ok. lol
The first thing I tried was to just run them on the track to see would happen. The loco began to run then shorted out with a small flame and little smoke near the motor. I opened her up and disconnected the pill smoker and headlight. All the wires are shot. I got power but the E-Unit is not switching and the lever is loose. So I tried the tender by itself and it just shorted out with sparks shooting out of the wheels. Not a good start. So I've started breaking them down. Photos to follow.

Mike


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Most of the wires to the motor look good but the E-Unit will most likely need to be rebuilt.









The tender was pretty rusted with all the wires old and cracked. Not sure how to test the whistle part to see if its working.










More later


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

Practice your soldering skills, as you will need them. Here are the sevice manual pages for the loco. Replace all bad wiring with flex wire available from online dealers. Remove rust with a scotchbrite pad, not sandpaper. Clean everything, including the wheel running surfaces with naptha (lighter fluid) after the rust has been removed. Naptha will not harm plastic or any paint. Remove the brushplates on the loco and tender whistle and clean everything with naptha, including the copper commutator on the armatures. Replace worn brushes and weak springs, lightly oil the bottom bearing of the armatures, replace the brushes, springs and brushplates, and oil the top bearing of the armatures.

Remove the e-unit and check for any rust on the loco frame or e-unit where it bolts in. Check that the 'finger' contacts are not burned through, dirty, or bent out of shape. Check the drum also for dirt or burned spots. Soak the bottom of the e-unit in a small jar of naptha to degrease it if necessary. Operate the plunger by hand to insure that the unit cycles properly and that all fingers make contact properly and are under proper tension. The lever must be rust free and make good contact with the solder stud for the e-unit to cycle. If the lever is very loose, it may be difficult to tighten without the proper tools. You may be able to add some solder to the contact stud to enlarge it enough so that the lever makes contact, or very carefully bend the lever itself. Rebuilding an e-unit is not for the impatient or faint of heart. Getting it apart is easy. Putting it back together-that's another story.

The baseplate for the rear tender truck needs the sliding shoe and rivet assembly if you wish to operate the coupler. Reaasemble and reinstall the tender tucks, and lightly oil the wheel bearings to insure the wheels spin freely. Reassemble the whistle and wire the pickup roller to the motor. Place on track, power up, and lift the relay contact by hand. The whistle motor should run and whistle.

Reassemble the loco and oil the axles, and add a touch of grease to the gears. The smoke unit is a subject unto itself. Check to see that the loco runs and the e-unit cycles properly, and you're almost done.

Larry


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

TrainLarry said:


> Practice your soldering skills, as you will need them. Here are the sevice manual pages for the loco. Replace all bad wiring with flex wire available from online dealers. Remove rust with a scotchbrite pad, not sandpaper. Clean everything, including the wheel running surfaces with naptha (lighter fluid) after the rust has been removed. Naptha will not harm plastic or any paint. Remove the brushplates on the loco and tender whistle and clean everything with naptha, including the copper commutator on the armatures. Replace worn brushes and weak springs, lightly oil the bottom bearing of the armatures, replace the brushes, springs and brushplates, and oil the top bearing of the armatures.
> 
> Remove the e-unit and check for any rust on the loco frame or e-unit where it bolts in. Check that the 'finger' contacts are not burned through, dirty, or bent out of shape. Check the drum also for dirt or burned spots. Soak the bottom of the e-unit in a small jar of naptha to degrease it if necessary. Operate the plunger by hand to insure that the unit cycles properly and that all fingers make contact properly and are under proper tension. The lever must be rust free and make good contact with the solder stud for the e-unit to cycle. If the lever is very loose, it may be difficult to tighten without the proper tools. You may be able to add some solder to the contact stud to enlarge it enough so that the lever makes contact, or very carefully bend the lever itself. Rebuilding an e-unit is not for the impatient or faint of heart. Getting it apart is easy. Putting it back together-that's another story.
> 
> ...


I'm going to break down the motor tomorrow and I'll take some photo's of the E-Unit. I've taken ONE apart a few months ago and it didnt go to well. I think the whistle looks ok so I'll just have to clean the rest of the tender and replace the pickups & wires. I havent tested it yet but it looks intact.









I've ordered 2 fluid smoke replacement units and I guess it just goes in the old casing after I dig all this out. I have another just like this in a 2037.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Reminds me a lot of my 2025 project, a few similar issues. My smoke heater was in pieces before removal, so you can at least see proper orientation. Ditto on the above comments. One note, you cannot remove the commutator without pulling the wheels, so it's tougher than the 2037. I use 91% or better isopropyl alcohol to clean with, it evaporates without a film. Use green scoth-brite to polish the comm surface and clean the space between the segments, a toothpick works good.

If it's really grimy non-chlorinated brake clean does the trick.

Carl


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Kwikster said:


> Reminds me a lot of my 2025 project, a few similar issues. My smoke heater was in pieces before removal, so you can at least see proper orientation. Ditto on the above comments. One note, you cannot remove the commutator without pulling the wheels, so it's tougher than the 2037. I use 91% or better isopropyl alcohol to clean with, it evaporates without a film. Use green scoth-brite to polish the comm surface and clean the space between the segments, a toothpick works good.
> 
> If it's really grimy non-chlorinated brake clean does the trick.
> 
> Carl


Hi Carl,
Do I need to buy a wheel puller or is there a trick to getting them off?

Thanks Mike


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Yes, you'd need a wheel puller and a set of cups with a press to put them back on properly. I wouldn't pull them however, it's just a bit more time consuming. Plus if you pull the wheels you'd need to properly "quarter" the wheel when done, another pita. If not properly quartered you'll get linkage bind. The only reason I'd ever pull wheels is if I absolutely have to. 

Carl


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

You only have to pull one wheel. You pull the flat wheel off not the gear wheel . You need that to line up the orientation and it is easier if the gear wheel is on the axle. It is not an easy thing to do. Only if you want to replace the Armature.


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

I used to struggle with soldering also. It helped a great deal to watch some "how to" videos on youtube. just search "how to soldier". The biggest thing I learned was how to clean and "tin" the soldering iron. sure made a big difference, now I think it is fun.

Randy


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Well I pulled the e-unit tonight but not sure if I need to break it down. Is there a way to test it just like it is? All the wires are still hooked up. I also removed the brushes and one of them is almost half gone. I'll pick up some new brushes and start there. Not sure how to clean the E-Unit. Maybe a spray contact cleaner or something like that. I spun the armature around and it looks intact but dirty. Seems like the finger look good but may need a cleaning also. More later.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

rdmtgm said:


> I used to struggle with soldering also. It helped a great deal to watch some "how to" videos on youtube. just search "how to soldier". The biggest thing I learned was how to clean and "tin" the soldering iron. sure made a big difference, now I think it is fun.
> 
> Randy


Yes I been told the same thing about keeping it clean and tinned. First thing I'll do is pick up a real soldering iron maybe 75 watts. Then practice a lot.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

TrainLarry said:


> Practice your soldering skills, as you will need them. Here are the sevice manual pages for the loco. Replace all bad wiring with flex wire available from online dealers. Remove rust with a scotchbrite pad, not sandpaper. Clean everything, including the wheel running surfaces with naptha (lighter fluid) after the rust has been removed. Naptha will not harm plastic or any paint. Remove the brushplates on the loco and tender whistle and clean everything with naptha, including the copper commutator on the armatures. Replace worn brushes and weak springs, lightly oil the bottom bearing of the armatures, replace the brushes, springs and brushplates, and oil the top bearing of the armatures.
> 
> Remove the e-unit and check for any rust on the loco frame or e-unit where it bolts in. Check that the 'finger' contacts are not burned through, dirty, or bent out of shape. Check the drum also for dirt or burned spots. Soak the bottom of the e-unit in a small jar of naptha to degrease it if necessary. Operate the plunger by hand to insure that the unit cycles properly and that all fingers make contact properly and are under proper tension. The lever must be rust free and make good contact with the solder stud for the e-unit to cycle. If the lever is very loose, it may be difficult to tighten without the proper tools. You may be able to add some solder to the contact stud to enlarge it enough so that the lever makes contact, or very carefully bend the lever itself. Rebuilding an e-unit is not for the impatient or faint of heart. Getting it apart is easy. Putting it back together-that's another story.
> 
> ...


Thanks Larry. I'm starting to break down the loco and the tender will be next. I took a few more photos and pretty much follow what your saying. I'll clean all the parts to the brushes and replace them as they are worn. About oiling the amrature. Do I need to remove it completly or can I just spin it around to oil it? Maybe I can test the E-Unit as it looks in better shape then I anticipted. There is one finger that looks dark but I cant tell if its burnt. 
The E-Unit lever arm is tight enough to make contact but not as tight as other loco's I have.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Kwikster said:


> Yes, you'd need a wheel puller and a set of cups with a press to put them back on properly. I wouldn't pull them however, it's just a bit more time consuming. Plus if you pull the wheels you'd need to properly "quarter" the wheel when done, another pita. If not properly quartered you'll get linkage bind. The only reason I'd ever pull wheels is if I absolutely have to.
> 
> Carl


Thanks Carl,
Think I'll pass on pulling the wheel unless I really have to. I received my fluid smoke units today. Do I need to gut the smoke unit (all the pill parts) to place my fluid one in there?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I got a butane soldering iron. I could never get the cheaper electric ones to work for me. You can clean the finger with a scotch Brite or try a peice of cardboard, like a matchbook, just try not to bend it too much.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Here's a good thread, postwar smokers are all very similar for the most part. Erkenband did a very well done thread detailing the process. It should help a lot.

EDIT: Here's another link to a lot of how-to's and useful information T-man did up. Very handy to have around. Thank T-man for the effort.

Carl


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## Srook (Jan 3, 2013)

One way to tighten the E Unit lever is to squeeze the pivot with needle nose pliers. Slip the jaws between the case of the E Unit and the outside of the lever and squeeze. That should tighten it up a little.

Scott


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Another choice.

I save the spring mechanism from small measuring tapes. This thin strong steel band when notched will act as a spacer just place it under the circular washer. 










They come in handy for making homemade wipers too.

The best way is to replace the rivet but requires a complete tear down.

Two threads on e unita.

thread 1
Thread 2


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I would leave the e unit together, just spray contact cleaner to clean it up some.
Don't bend the fingers either be careful with them.

Don't oil the plunger either.
If it works why take it apart.

Same as pulling the wheels, as mentioned don't unless you have too.
Cleanup everything without pulling the wheels.
I think the servoguy recommends oiling (a real little bit) the face of the commutator?
I think he said that I don't oil it, maybe he will add here. Maybe it was the armature he said? 

But if it works don't fix it.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

big ed said:


> I would leave the e unit together, just spray contact cleaner to clean it up some.
> Don't bend the fingers either be careful with them.
> 
> Don't oil the plunger either.
> ...


Hi Ed,
The E-Unit isnt working. All I'm getting is a buzzing sound and no switching. I'm waiting on some brushes and springs and will clean everything first, put it back together and try it again. Alreadt decided not to break down the E-unit or take out the armature. They both look intact, just need cleaning. Not sure where to oil the armature. But you all have posted a few good links that I'll read up on and go from there. Thanks to everybody here the project is moving along.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

msak24cardss said:


> Hi Ed,
> The E-Unit isnt working. All I'm getting is a buzzing sound and no switching. I'm waiting on some brushes and springs and will clean everything first, put it back together and try it again. Alreadt decided not to break down the E-unit or take out the armature. They both look intact, just need cleaning. Not sure where to oil the armature. But you all have posted a few good links that I'll read up on and go from there. Thanks to everybody here the project is moving along.


Did you try any type of spray cleaner on the e unit yet? Most of the time the plunger is gunked up a little. Try working the lever while power is applied. Try gently tapping the top when power is applied.


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

You can spray contact cleaner on the e-unit to clean off the drum and contacts. Cycle the unit by hand to make sure the plunger does not stick, and that all the fingers make contact with the drum in the various positions. The suggestion by T-Man for a shim under the lever spring is a good one if you cannot physically tighten the rivet.
The armature can be cleaned and oiled by taking off the armature bearing on the right side of the motor, cleaning it and oiling it after reassembly. When you reinstall the brushplate, oil the top of the armature through the brushplate. Just a drop is needed, or it will get on the commutator and brushes.
For soldering, you will find you may need a higher wattage soldering gun in addition to a pencil soldering iron for big jobs that take a lot of heat, like replacing transformer power cords. Use only rosin core solder for electrical work.
The use of oil on the commutator is not necessary, as the brushes, being made of carbon, are self-lubricating. Oil may cause excessive sparking and flashovers on the commutator; things we are looking to avoid.

Larry


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

big ed said:


> Did you try any type of spray cleaner on the e unit yet? Most of the time the plunger is gunked up a little. Try working the lever while power is applied. Try gently tapping the top when power is applied.


I havent tried to power it being I'm new to all this I'm not sure how to hook up power to it. I'm thinking the post on the side is the where the hot wire goes (where the light wire was soldered) and I guess the ground just goes to the metal frame somewhere. I work at Home Depot so I'll pick up some contact cleaner today and start cleaning everything first then try it and see what happens. I'm wondering if I can use the brushes out of my 1666 motor to test it till my new brushes get here.


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

TrainLarry said:


> You can spray contact cleaner on the e-unit to clean off the drum and contacts. Cycle the unit by hand to make sure the plunger does not stick, and that all the fingers make contact with the drum in the various positions. The suggestion by T-Man for a shim under the lever spring is a good one if you cannot physically tighten the rivet.
> The armature can be cleaned and oiled by taking off the armature bearing on the right side of the motor, cleaning it and oiling it after reassembly. When you reinstall the brushplate, oil the top of the armature through the brushplate. Just a drop is needed, or it will get on the commutator and brushes.
> For soldering, you will find you may need a higher wattage soldering gun in addition to a pencil soldering iron for big jobs that take a lot of heat, like replacing transformer power cords. Use only rosin core solder for electrical work.
> The use of oil on the commutator is not necessary, as the brushes, being made of carbon, are self-lubricating. Oil may cause excessive sparking and flashovers on the commutator; things we are looking to avoid.
> ...


Thanks Larry. Is it ok to use 3n1 oil or should I use motor oil like you suggested before? I just dont know how I can get motor oil in there. I looked at work (Home Depot) for a needle applicator but cant find one. I already took the brushplate off as I need new brushes and springs and I can see the armature is loose inside. When you say oil the armature do you mean the sides? I'm thinking I shouldnt do anything to the copper inside of it. I'm still learning here so I not sure about some things yet. The E-unit looks ok so I'll just spray it with contact cleaner and see what happens. Are you saying a 75 watt soldering gun isnt enough? Thanks


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## TrainLarry (Jan 15, 2012)

The e-unit is operated by hooking power to the solder connection the lever makes contact with, and the metal case of the e-unit, just like you stated. Move the lever to make contact with the electrical stud. Apply power and the e-unit will cycle one notch of the drum. Remove power, and reapply power and the e-unit will cycle again. Continue removing and reapplying power to get the e-unit to cycle completely around the drum.
The brushes from the different locomotives are interchangeable.
Take a q-tip and dip it in alcohol or naptha and clean the copper commutator and the shaft of the armature. Take off the bearing plate on the opposite side of the motor, and clean it and the armature shaft also. You can use either 3-in-1 oil, or some people use non-detergent automotive motor oil. Reassemble the bearing plate and put a drop of oil on the armature *shaft* as it sticks out of the bearing plate. Reassemble the brushplate after replacing the brushes, and add a drop of oil to the armature *shaft* sticking out of the brushplate.
A 75 watt soldering irom should suffice for most work. You will need a bigger iron when you heat up a joint and it does not melt the solder. When you solder a joint, always heat the joint and apply solder to the joint. Let the joint melt the solder. Never just melt solder on a joint. Make sure you have a good mechanical connection so the wires do not pull apart, then solder the joint. This will insure a solid connection that will not fail.

Larry


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

These guys swear by motor oil. I'm a convert too. They say the other oil gums up faster. I use a toothpick and drip the oil where it's needed. Works fine for me. I'm too lazy to get a pin oiler. After I'm done I make sure the wheels are clean. After cleaning my first engine, I dripped oil on the wheels and ran it. It got oil all over the track. Not good.


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## Srook (Jan 3, 2013)

After cleaning dried up white grease off a few locos, you will never use that stuff again. I'm a motor oil convert as well. I use a small bottle with a long oil tube coming out of the top. I got it at the local hobby shop for $4. The hardest part is filling the bottle and not spilling motor oil everywhere.

I'm not sure what you were planning to do with the shell but the paint looks to be in really good shape. There is something to be said for nice original paint. Consider that the loco is over 70 years old. Sometimes pictures make things look better than they really are though. In the end it is up to you.

Scott


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

3-n-1, sewing machine oil will get gummy in very short order. Some guys here, servoguy for one, have been using motor oil for decades with no issues. I've seen firsthand the ill effect of wrong lube, even the Lionel recommend stuff it's down right nasty. Old Lionel grease can stop a loco from even moving. The only place I ever use grease is on worm drive gears in hard to lube places, like the 2243 power truck. You have to remove the armature (commutator) to access it.

Carl


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## msak24cardss (Jul 25, 2013)

Here are some better photos of the 675 & 1666 before I clean them up. Waiting on the brushes before the 675 still. I pulled the brushes from the 1666 but they are a different size.
I'll start by cleaning the armature,e-unit and brush arms.
The 675
























The spring difference. Ones on left are from the 675








The 1666


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