# major amtrak derailment



## bigdodgetrain (Jun 12, 2015)

second in as many days








Three Dead After Amtrak Train ‘Topples Over’ in Missouri Derailment


Amtrak said several cars derailed “after striking a dump truck at a public crossing in Mendon, Missouri.”




www.thedailybeast.com






sad


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

Absolutely distressing. My best friend runs freight for a Class One. Twice he struck semi's at an unguarded crossing. The crossing was visible for miles, and as his train would approach, he would see the truckers speed up in an effort to beat the train in a deadly game of tag. Both times the trucks were demolished to confetti, and both times the drivers survived. The possibility of debris penetrating the train cab is lethal. I am so sorry that passengers had to pay with their health and their lives.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

Well on bright side (if there can be) at least the car tightlock couplers held, preventing telescoping cars or accordion zig-zaging. Too bad there were three fatalities. Saw pictures where the trucks rear end was snapped off and laying on next rail bed. Gives some idea of how fast the train was moving at impact. If I heard right, it said this same train was involved in another accident somewhere west??? Just have to await the transportation board findings two or more years from now.
On a dark humor side: At the Pearly Gates, St Peter asks the truck driver "What part of Stop, Look, Listen did you mis-read?"


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## SF Gal (11 mo ago)

Saw this on the news, just terrible for all involved. I just can't fathom the excuse the truck driver had for his actions.
It better be a dang good excuse...and even then, that's so messed up!


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## Chops (Dec 6, 2018)

The reason, from what I hear, may be an impulsive desire to "beat the train." I would also be very interested to know, and we never will, what the tox screen shows post mortem on dead trucker.


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## MacDaddy55 (Aug 19, 2008)

Tragic accident with Train v Dump Truck and the outpouring of support from town folks was overwhelming with Food and Shelter at the local gymnasium.... and the Boy Scout Troups from Appleton, Wi came up big providing on site First Aid as their training kicked in. But someone is going to pay big time for this fiasco!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

rrman987 said:


> On a dark humor side: At the Pearly Gates, St Peter asks the truck driver "What part of Stop, Look, Listen did you mis-read?"


Actually, that would be at a different gate, a place with a lot hotter climate!


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

I believe normal track speed there for passenger was up around 90mph.
At that speed, a dump truck -- particularly if it was loaded -- would almost certainly be enough to derail a train.


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## Mixed Freight (Aug 31, 2019)

A tragic accident, no doubt. But, considering some rational facts.................

Diesel-powered trucks are not exactly quiet vehicles while driving down the road. The engines themselves, the tire noise, and the suspensions make for a fair amount of interior cab noise. Driving on rough and/or gravel roads exacerbates the noise problem, to boot. And that's with the cab windows up. Rolled down in fair weather, the ambient noise is even greater.

In a semi-perfect world, all roads and tracks would cross each other at 90 degrees. This would allow a driver to easily see both ways before crossing the tracks. However, when roads and tracks meet at acute angles, this can start seriously affecting left/right visual sighting, depending on the direction of travel. The sharper the angle, the worse it can get. Truck drivers with rear windows covered by dump boxes, cargo boxes, cargo trailers, etc., have an especially hard time seeing much other than straight back with their rear-view mirrors.

Any vehicle (truck, train, whatever) approaching a crossing at 90 mph is going to get there a WHOLE lot faster than what the other vehicle operator may realize. What looks to be a long ways off is undoubtedly true, but at 90 mph that "long ways" disappears in a few seconds flat, and the next thing you know is, it's there!

When it comes to "stop, look, and listen" at railroad crossings, the dump truck driver obviously failed at one or more of these precedence's, even if he made a half-hearted attempt at all of them. I really doubt if he tried to beat the train to the crossing, as truck drivers tend to be a whole lot more careful about things like that than compared to the average, unaware Karen's and Joe's that are normally allowed to operate personal vehicles these days.

Yes, a tragic accident. While I'm sure the truck driver will ultimately be found at fault for one or more reasons, it's highly possible he was hampered in his actions by one or more of those same reasons. We will just have to wait and see for the official report to come out in order to know the cause (or the most likely cause) for this accident.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Mixed Freight said:


> A tragic accident, no doubt. But, considering some rational facts.................
> 
> Diesel-powered trucks are not exactly quiet vehicles while driving down the road. The engines themselves, the tire noise, and the suspensions make for a fair amount of interior cab noise. Driving on rough and/or gravel roads exacerbates the noise problem, to boot. And that's with the cab windows up. Rolled down in fair weather, the ambient noise is even greater.
> 
> ...


It's really hard to find fault with the train unless it was operating outside it's allowed speed. That's pretty much all the control they have, it's not like they can drive around the truck. 

It's crystal clear that it's the truck's responsibility to avoid driving in front of a speeding train. If conditions in the cab, the load, or the road preclude such avoidance he has no right to be crossing those tracks and endangering the traveling public. I can just see me trying to explain to the officer who stops me for running a stop sign, "But... my windows were fogged and I didn't see the sign". I don't think that would fly in that case, and I don't think "he couldn't see the train" should fly in this case.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Actually, that would be at a different gate, a place with a lot hotter climate!


I was going to say that but thought, nah I will be nice!!


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

We will never know what the truck driver was thinking.

According to the article, there were 8 passenger cars, seven of which toppled over. At 90MPH, an 8-car consist would have blown through that intersection in a few seconds... I have a hard time believing a truck driver would try to beat something that short. He more than likely misjudged the oncoming train's speed. Not many of us are accustomed to anything approaching us that swiftly.

Not trying to make excuses... just trying to make sense of it.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

The article said it is an uncontrolled crossing. Seems to me that if a train goes 90 MPH at a crossing, there ought to be crossing gates, lights and bells. Even if it's a little used or private road.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Hope he wasn’t texting or reading his FB pages….


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## Andy57 (Feb 7, 2020)

This crossing is out in the sticks. No gates lights and bells cause no electric within maybe five miles. Not enough traffic to warrant the cost of getting electric there. Cost is between the railroad and county. If the county asks for signage the railroad will submit a bid and the county must come up with the rest. Many, many of those crossings around here. Some crossings do have extra signage saying to the effect, Caution trains pass at 70+ MPH.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

I hate unguarded crossings. By that I mean lights & bell only, no guard arms. 
There’s one right near my house. The approach is obscured by houses & trees unless you look for a train when you’re still 2/3rds of a mile back. And when the sun is setting around a couple times per year you cannot tell if the lights are flashing or not. 
A few weeks ago someone right in front of me didn’t see the approaching tonnage until they were almost on the crossing. They stopped short, but far enough forward that they needed to put it in reverse. I had seen it a ways back and knew we’d all reach at the perfect sweet spot for an impact. I stopped my vehicle about 20 ft back in anticipation of a panicked reverse or flying parts. 
Odds are the truck driver was at fault. But it’s possible the Sun and bad timing are to blame. 
My heart goes out to the passengers. Over the accident of course, but also because they had to endure what are questionably called “meals” by Amtrak.


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Let's not forget the ,"It's my cell phone, I better take this." mentality that exists today.


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## J.Albert1949 (Feb 3, 2018)

Lehigh wrote:
_"Seems to me that if a train goes 90 MPH at a crossing, there ought to be crossing gates, lights and bells. Even if it's a little used or private road."_

Impossible.
There are just TOO MANY lightly-used and unprotected crossings to do this.

The cost of putting in even one "protected" crossing is very high, probably higher now with the PTC stuff that's involved.

Does that mean that every "farmer's crossing" in the middle of nowhere (which may be actually "used" by a vehicle only one or two times a week) can justify such expenditures?

The truck driver bears the blame for this, but he paid the price.


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

There are a number of unguarded crossings in my area, but they are private roads and the track speed is low. Many years ago, most of the crossings in this area (SE PA) with moderate traffic and/or higher train speeds got grade separation at a VERY high expense. And some roads were dead ended at the tracks.

I have no illusions about the price of protecting crossings, but I would not be surprised if, after the investigation, the FRA recommends crossing gates for at least this one.


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## OilValleyRy (Oct 3, 2021)

Lesser used tracks _might_ be a higher ratio of incidents as trains are not expected, versus where they routinely cross a road one or more times per day and are expected even if the population is greater. But maybe the difference in automobile traffic is too great to even make them equal odds?
That’d be an interesting set of data to review, and what factors contribute most in each direction.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I cross over the SEPTA tracks all the time, and there's also another single track that rarely has any traffic. However, I did get stuck there once watching about a 100 car tank train, don't know where it was going, but it sure wasn't in any hurry!


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

J.Albert1949 said:


> Lehigh wrote:
> _"Seems to me that if a train goes 90 MPH at a crossing, there ought to be crossing gates, lights and bells. Even if it's a little used or private road."_
> 
> Impossible.
> ...


While I understand the sentiment and fully understand a cost-benefit analysis, I bet the costs from this accident would pay for the protection. How much rolling stock was ruined, or at least damaged needing repair in this incident? Was there track damage? How much will Amtrak pay for the passengers inconveniences, including the medical bills and such? How much will they pay for the lives lost? I agree the truck driver was at fault, but his insurance is probably at the federal minimum of $500,000 which is not going to cover much. And that is if his insurance rolls over and pays their max liability. I bet the passengers will still so the Railroad and a jury trail will go their way.

And I am doing just a cold hard factual cost benefit analysis. I did not include the regulators who may step in and say "if it saves one life" and their whole philosophy. I don't agree with them, but they are out there to be considered.


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## BigEd (Oct 28, 2014)

On a different note… My father engineered local commuter trains here in Cape Town for 16 years. Luckily he never had a grade crossing acciden, nor a high speed derailment. He did however kill 37 pedestrians over this period. Total disregard for respecting railway property, “jay walking” jumping the tracks but the worst were the suicidal people watching you all the way till you run them over. You cannot stop 700 metric tons easily. Made my dad a bit harder than the normal dad. They had councelling available but you were teased if you used them.

Although the loss of 3 lives in this case is terrible I am surprised and happy it was only 3. RIP

I am saving up (quite futille when you collect model trains) to travel across the great nation of yours via Amtrak. Was planning to do so in October 2020 but then this stupid cold virus got in the way. Also life happened and my savings got eaten by it… Ah well, maybe I can do so in the near future. Or before I hit 60… now 51…


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## Oomowmow (10 mo ago)

According to all the media reports, the locals in the area are all aware that this is a dangerous crossing. It's on a fairly sharp rise, with high vegetation (crops?) Obscuring the view of the tracks. One guy that has to cross it on a regular basis has been trying to get them to put in crossing lights for years.


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## JeffHurl (Apr 22, 2021)

Oomowmow said:


> According to all the media reports, the locals in the area are all aware that this is a dangerous crossing. It's on a fairly sharp rise, with high vegetation (crops?) Obscuring the view of the tracks. One guy that has to cross it on a regular basis has been trying to get them to put in crossing lights for years.


If that's true, then it makes the people who have refused it somewhat culpable.


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## bbunge1 (10 mo ago)

I have been on an Amtrak train that hit a car. Fortunately, there were no injuries. It was before 7:00 AM deep in South Carolina and we were about three hours late. The lady got to the crossing and the gates were down. She had not seen a train on her way to work and assumed crossing gate failure. She went around the gates and we hit her at 70 MPH. Took the trunk of her car off and spun her around a couple of times. By the time we got stopped she had turned around and drove the car home. Her back bumper was attached to the engine snow plow. She was lucky!
I have volunteered with Operation Lifesaver for a dozen years teaching people to be safe around trains. The stats are sad that three people are hit by trains every day in the US. And the train is always blamed by the media. But train tracks are private property. Highways cross at the permission of the railroad. Every crossing has a cross buck sign that means drivers have to yield to trains whether there are crossing lights/gates/bells or other devices or if a train blows its horn/whistle or not. Every crossing has a blue sign, with a phone number and crossing ID, to call the railroad and report problems or get a train stopped.
I have also traveled Amtrak on the Marceline Sub where the recent wreck happened. Hard to stop a 90 MPH train. Residents should know that as the trains have been there longer than anyone now living can remember.
*See Tracks, Think Train!*


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

Obviously not the case here but in metro areas many of these accidents involve double track lines. The gates come down, the driver allows the train to pass but the gates don't go back up. The driver goes around the gate and gets hit by a second train in the opposite direction.


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## rrman987 (Aug 29, 2021)

And now the blame game begins








Lawsuits filed days after deadly Missouri Amtrak crash


KGAN CBS 2 and KFXA Fox 28 provide local news, weather forecasts, notices of events and items of interest in the community, sports and entertainment programming for Cedar Rapids and nearby towns and communities in the Corridor and throughout eastern Iowa, including Iowa City, Waterloo, Dubuque...




cbs2iowa.com


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Gramps said:


> Obviously not the case here but in metro areas many of these accidents involve double track lines. The gates come down, the driver allows the train to pass but the gates don't go back up. The driver goes around the gate and gets hit by a second train in the opposite direction.


That’s why everyone should put their kindergarten training to use as adults….”always look both ways before crossing”….


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

Gramps said:


> Obviously not the case here but in metro areas many of these accidents involve double track lines. The gates come down, the driver allows the train to pass but the gates don't go back up. The driver goes around the gate and gets hit by a second train in the opposite direction.


At a double tracked commuter station near me (with a nearby street crossing the tracks), in addition to gates, lights and bells, there is an automated announcement. Something like “A train is coming. Don’t cross the tracks”. When a second train is coming shortly after the first, the announcement is something like “A second train is coming. Don’t cross the tracks”.


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## Stumpy (Mar 19, 2013)

Mendon, Missouri - Sean of the South


Mendon, Missouri. Population 171. There’s really nothing here. The tiny town is located off Route 11, just south of Yellow Creek. You’re three hours west of Saint Louis, two hours east of Kansas City. It’s quiet. No attractions. No major landmarks. Nobody famous ever lived here unless you count...




seandietrich.com


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## DOOFUS (May 20, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> Mendon, Missouri - Sean of the South
> 
> 
> Mendon, Missouri. Population 171. There’s really nothing here. The tiny town is located off Route 11, just south of Yellow Creek. You’re three hours west of Saint Louis, two hours east of Kansas City. It’s quiet. No attractions. No major landmarks. Nobody famous ever lived here unless you count...
> ...


 Was this really a "public" crossing or a "private" crossing. When dealing with the railroads, they take a very clear difference between the two. Railroad sometimes will close "private" crossings to assert their ownership rights. From what i read, the crossing went to a farmer's bean field. Unless there are some deed restrictions in the railroad right of way instrument; it sounds like a private crossing. 

Projects that I worked on involving crossings (public or private) or any other railroad property specifically spelled out insurance requirements and railroad providing flagmen. (also other requirements).

Was this a Corps of Engineers levee project? I can't imagine them missing such a vital step in their contract. 

It's too bad that lives were lost and blame passed from trucker to contractor to Amtrak to railroad to state. and so on. Somebody dropped the ball.


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