# Now what????



## Gman307 (Sep 21, 2015)

OK, so I got a new power truck chassis, reassembled it, and my 497 New Haven alco was up and running. Now I didn't mention that it was doing maybe half the speed that my steam locos are doing, but it did move enough for me to enjoy. Well yesterday, it started slowing down a bit, and now it just hums with no movement. Every so often it will move a bit, but then just stops and hums loudly and the truck gets very warm so I shut it off. I measured about 14v on the engine itself so I know it's not a voltage problem, and everything is oiled and greased. So guys, what do I check next? I still am using the original axles, gears, and wheels. The only thing I haven't redone is clean the copper on the rotor that the points contact but that is in the same condition as when it was running. Stumped.......


----------



## higgsbosonman (Nov 17, 2014)

I don't know how they are built, but is it possible to disconnect the motor from the truck? If you could do that, you'd be able to isolate the problem to the gears (they would be hard to spin) or the motor (when power is applied, the motor won't spin or spins roughly). 

Even if the motor spins, you may also have a problem with the field magnet losing it's strength from overheating (possible, but I've only seen one motor ever have that problem) or maybe it has a partially shorted field winding, which would make the motor stop every rotation, or at least get very weak and draw lots of power. Of course, these are worst case scenarios.

Are these engines AC or DC?


----------



## Gman307 (Sep 21, 2015)

This is the original ac motor. With the power off, I can turn the rotor shaft and all spins freely turning the wheels.


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Are all the wheels turning freely on BOTH trucks?? There could be a problem with something dragging, causing the motor to over-heat. Does it run after a cooling down period? I would take the motor apart, clean the armature, check the brushes and springs.Any grease or oil on the armature will cause problems. Make sure all moving parts are free. I'm thinking of maybe a bind somewhere, causing over-heating?.. You did change the chassis because of a bad bushing correct?. On one of my manuals, the problem you are looking at could be caused by a worn bushing, actually a elliptical hole...Still sounds like a bind somewhere to me, causing over-heating. Is the field assembly centered? Check your wiring?


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

It is hard to guess without actually handling the unit. Typically with a new or rebuilt chassis if it were a bad bushing or tight clearance it would loosen up with more operating time. To me it sounds like a weak brush spring, bent brush arm or a worn out brush. On some of my diesels it has taken 3 or 4 tries to get the brushes in correct contact with the armature to get maximum motor power. I have also had to rebend the ends of the brush springs to get more force. These diesels are much more alignment sensitive than the steam engines. It is also possible the two caps that hold the armature to the truck are damaged or too tight. Try loosening the small screws that hold the caps on and see if that helps.


----------



## Gman307 (Sep 21, 2015)

Loren, Tom, you both are correct. I disassembled the whole unit, cleaned up the excess oil, cleaned the copper on the armature (I think there was a bit of oil/grease contaminating that). Tightened the tension on the brushes as best as possible (and yes there is a sweet spot where the brushes make the most power). Checked the new bushings and the tolerances seem fine. Put it all back together, and she runs good. Still not as fast as my steam locos but good enough for enjoyment. I think I'm gonna have my original truck not only rebushed, but have a can motor conversion on it, run the diodes on the chassis somewhere so I can maintain running ac on the tracks, and see how that goes too. Oh, I also rebuilt the broken screw towers inside the alco body with JB weld. Seems to hold just fine. Again, thanks to you all who chimed in. Flyernut keep an eye on your mailbox


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Great that you have it back in running condition. Your comment on the operating speed is interesting. In my experience the speed of a diesel engine was always at least as fast as a steam engine.


----------



## Gman307 (Sep 21, 2015)

Tom, I'm sure there are little things I could improve on to get my alco to top shape/speed. New axles, wheels, and washers/insulators. And I wish I could get the brushes aligned a few mm back towards the end of the shaft (centering it in the copper area) for she sits close to the windings right now. Maybe even new brushes for I'm not sure if the existing brushes may be a bit contaminated with oil. Maybe time/usage will clear that??? But you what's JUST AS FUN as running my trains? Talking to you guys about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Gman307 said:


> Tom, I'm sure there are little things I could improve on to get my alco to top shape/speed. New axles, wheels, and washers/insulators. And I wish I could get the brushes aligned a few mm back towards the end of the shaft (centering it in the copper area) for she sits close to the windings right now. Maybe even new brushes for I'm not sure if the existing brushes may be a bit contaminated with oil. Maybe time/usage will clear that??? But you what's JUST AS FUN as running my trains? Talking to you guys about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ALOHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh:


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

I have not noticed that oil penetrates into the brush and affects performance. On diesels as the brush wears the spring tension lessens and it affects motor performance unless the arm on the spring is re-bent slightly. If the brushes are not centered on the armature it might indicate the slot in the fiberboard is worn. Unless the brush is so far forward it is rubbing against the solder joint on the commutator it should not affect performance. Since you have rebuilt the engine the brushes will be aligned slightly different; performance should improve with operating time as the brushes wear into conformance with the commutator.
I have not been to Hawaii in 6 years, I hope you are doing well there.


----------



## Gman307 (Sep 21, 2015)

Thanks for the tips Tom. I did not rebuild the motor, just cleaned everything. The brushes are about a mm or two from the solder point. Clears it with no touching. And I just set up a piece of oval track to test again (in the middle of renovations of my house) and my alco does about 3/4 top speed of what my steam locos do. I'm good with that. And this is pulling 6 cars to boot. Born and raised here in Honolulu. Cost of living is high here but it is doable. Yup, during Christmas, we BBQ at the beach!!!! And when if it reaches into the 60's in the evening, we freeze


----------



## flyernut (Oct 31, 2010)

Gman307 said:


> Thanks for the tips Tom. I did not rebuild the motor, just cleaned everything. The brushes are about a mm or two from the solder point. Clears it with no touching. And I just set up a piece of oval track to test again (in the middle of renovations of my house) and my alco does about 3/4 top speed of what my steam locos do. I'm good with that. And this is pulling 6 cars to boot. Born and raised here in Honolulu. Cost of living is high here but it is doable. Yup, during Christmas, we BBQ at the beach!!!! And when if it reaches into the 60's in the evening, we freeze


Better expect a visitor!!!!!


----------



## Nuttin But Flyer (Dec 19, 2011)

It sounds like your chassis has the beginning of elongated holes and it will eventually need to be rebushed. While this is not an expensive repair, about $45, it will need to be done by a professional as the holes on the opposite sides of the chassis must be aligned perfectly. I have a friend who does exceptional diesel engine service and can do the rebush as well as service and tune-up to get that baby running like new. I have used him extensively for mine and his prices are very reasonable...

https://sites.google.com/site/americanflyerengineservicnfe/home


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Gman, 10 years ago I was in Honolulu for three days the week before Christmas, it was really nice and well decorated. I have to make do with the southern California coast where it gets to the lower 50's at night. I feel for you with the remodel. Two years ago we renovated our house. We moved out rather than put up with it. Fortunately we were able to do a short term rental of a neighbor's house four doors down the street.
Running at that speed with 6 cars behind a single motor diesel sounds good enough to me.


----------



## Gman307 (Sep 21, 2015)

Don, it's an NOS chassis with bushings. Not even an hour running time on it. But it looks like the problem was the armature copper contacts under the brushes were just too"carbonized" (for a lack of a better word). Cleaning all that up it now runs fine. Thanks for chiming in. Tom, our house is kinda like a U shape and we're enclosing the middle portion of the U so it's not that bad. But my radio corner is turning into a walk-in closet, and outside my wife approved a man cave for me so I'm shutting up and not saying a damn thing, what ever she wants. Hey, happy wife, happy life.......and my own man cave!


----------



## AmFlyer (Mar 16, 2012)

Gman, i agree on your philosophy on marriage. Fortunately for me my wife fully supports my train passion.


----------

