# Vintage Lionel....Advice needed!



## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Hi folks,

Obviously a newby that will have lots of questions going forward. To start, let me give you some background. For over 50 years I have stored my childhood train away in a box. I missed opening it up when my kids were small but now, with a grandson who is nuts about trains, I don’t intend to miss this new opportunity. So opened it was.

I have a mid ’50’s Lionel 0-27 set including a 1033 transformer, 2055 steamer with a variety of cars, a 397 coal loader (needs a belt) and about 50 feet of track. All looks to be in good shape with certain exceptions. I surmise the 1033 will be adequate to get this project started. Here is what I have done so far.

First, searched out a good local hobby shop and introduced myself. It was obvious that the 1033 controller needed to be checked out and the cord replaced. Done. Given my time constraints I also had them look at the engine and tender and was happy to hear everything was in good shape….just a little “dry”. So far, so good. 

What I want to do is reuse my track and switches unless you guys convince me I am insane for even contemplating such a thing. Keep in mind there is an element of nostalgia here. The track has virtually no rust whatsoever and cleans up quite nicely….at least to me anyway. I will require a few additional pieces track for the layout I am considering as well as additional remote switches. I currently have a pair of 1122 switches. Should I be thinking of more ‘vintage’ switches or something more modern? Keep in mind, once I start there will be pressure to become operational sooner rather than later so I am not sure I will have the time to collect and restore older equipment. I’m sure if I get the bug again this thing will change over time so any investment should be complementary.

So any comment and advice for the initial stages ….much appreciated.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Track can be re-used. Make sure those pins are snug and not bent. I would clean the engine electrically (pick ups, e-unit motor) and start from there!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Lube the engine and all the cars with 5W-20/30 motor oil. It doesn't dry out and so if you put the train away for a few years, you won't have to clean off the dried crud from grease or 3 in 1 oil or Lionel Lube. I have used oil for 55+ years. I have stored trains for 45 years and taken them out of the box and they ran without any problems. 

Use a ScotchBrite pad to clean the track. DO NOT USE sandpaper or steel wool. You only need to clean the top of the rails and the pins. 

The 1122 switches are OK. I prefer O-31 track and 022 switches, but I have used O-27 track and 1122 switches and they work well.

To keep the track together, I bend the left outer rail slightly to the left and the center rail to the right. I bend the rails where the pins are so the pliers don't collapse the rails. If you do this, you only have to do it once as the rails will remain bent. I have been playing with Lionel trains since 1950 and this is the best way I have found to keep the track tight. If you want to clean out the open ends of the rails, get some wire brushes from McMaster Carr. If you track is not rusty, you may be ok without cleaning the open ends. 

Have fun.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

THE TYCO MAN said:


> Track can be re-used. Make sure those pins are snug and not bent. I would clean the engine electrically (pick ups, e-unit motor) and start from there!


Thanks. I had the hobby shop overhaul the engine, so I feel I am good to go there. I have cleaned a lot of the track and checked the pins. They look OK to me. I bought a few new ones just in case but have not seen a bend one yet.....surprising since they look like brass to me. Just tonight I set up a short test loop and everything looked good. It was great to see the old engine run after some 50+ years and run it did....just fine.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The 1122 switches may need some restoration before they work well. I posted a repair procedure on this forum a few years ago. Search for it with Google: lionel, 1122, switches, repair and you should find it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have some prewar stuff going back to 1925, and it all runs just fine.


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## THE TYCO MAN (Aug 23, 2011)

The track isn't brass. Its tinplate/stamped steel.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

servoguy said:


> The 1122 switches may need some restoration before they work well. I posted a repair procedure on this forum a few years ago. Search for it with Google: lionel, 1122, switches, repair and you should find it.


Thanks, I will look for it.


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

THE TYCO MAN said:


> The track isn't brass. Its tinplate/stamped steel.


Agree the track is tinplate. I was referring to the pins as looking like brass.


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## Dave Sams (Nov 24, 2010)

TundraBoy

Welcome aboard! I have lots of 1122s and my old 027 track from the 50's. If you are lucky, a little cleaning and some light lubrication will get the switches working like new. The restoration proceedure is good, but I've been lucky to not need it.

As far as the 1033 goes, I'm a fan of the transformer. It is the one my father bought for my layout. I now have 4. They work great for postwar and modern locos. I don't have any of the newer equipment with the electronics.

Enjoy the train, the grandchildren and the memories.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Since you have a pair of 1122 switches I can assume this is O27. I'm not big on O27, other than being cheap there are no other benefits to using it. Since you're getting off to a fresh start I recommend switching to new Lionel FasTrack and relegate the old O27 to ebay. FasTrack will cost you a bit more but your holiday layout will be up and running quickly and your engine and cars will run great on it.


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## Don Trinko (Oct 23, 2012)

My layout is o 27. The advantage of o 27 is that the turning radius is smaller. I would start with what you have. If in the future you go a different path that is fine.
Some want elaborate layouts (nothing wrong with that) but for me I just enjoy the train going around a loop. Every so often I add a little smoke oil and blow the horn. Don


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

O-27 has two advantages: it is very cheap and the turn radius is tighter than any other track. I run O-31 because the 022 switches are very reliable (after suitable restoration) and it is very cheap (track sections for 50 cents, switches for less than $10) and I can cut it easily to whatever size I want. I have also cut down the 022 switches to get yard tracks closer together. I have some Fastrack, and it is good stuff but very expensive.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Cheap....Cheap....Cheap....stop calling my O/27 track, Cheap.
I am still using some from the 50's and it is still performing well.

My Cheap track, on my Crummy video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSG72ljq6To


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Not cheap, Ed, but "inexpensive."


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Not cheap, Ed, but "inexpensive."


That sounds better.
But in today's world, nothing is really inexpensive.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Don't use sandpaper to clean the track. Use a ScotchBrite pad or a medium or soft wire wheel. Sandpaper will remove the plating.

I don't know Ed, but I have seen O-27 track for sale for 25 cents. That is inexpensive, and it was clean.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

O-27 track cost 25 cents in 1950.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

O-31 track cost 35 cents and 022 switches were $10.95 each in 1950. That was expensive.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

I was in my hobby shop yesterday looking at FasTrack. Track sections run about $5 apiece and switches are $60-$100 each! Brand new O27 is under $2.

To quote an old football commercial, "You make the call".


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can get Fastrack considerably cheaper on-line, try www.modeltrainstuff.com for one source. However, it'll never be as cheap as tubular track, or as readily available on the used market.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> Don't use sandpaper to clean the track. Use a ScotchBrite pad or a medium or soft wire wheel. Sandpaper will remove the plating.
> 
> I don't know Ed, but I have seen O-27 track for sale for 25 cents. That is inexpensive, and it was clean.



OK Inexpensive....but not cheap.

Funny as much as I watch e bay I never see it that "inexpensive" as 25 cents a section.
Some are paying more for O/27 then they would for O, but I guess they are newbies to model RR'ing.

Tell me......are the voltage plugs the same for O/72 switches as the ones used for O/22 switches?

Why is an O/22 switch actually a O/31? 
Why is the box labeled O/22 when there is an O/31 in it?
Or am I wrong?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The voltage plugs are the same, but note that the older PW switches and the later production have different plugs. Specifically, the pin was a different size.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The voltage plugs are the same, but note that the older PW switches and the later production have different plugs. Specifically, the pin was a different size.


Thanks.
I bought 2 pair of the O/72 switches they look almost new. He still has one pair for sale.
One is missing the plug. I don't know the year but the box has a 6- number so I am assuming they are fairly new? Last 20 years or so, your talking like 1940/50 switches have a different plug?

You wouldn't happen to have one of each to post a picture next to a ruler of them do you?
Or a site that does? Funny there is nothing in the service manual about the O/72 switches.

Anyone? Servoguy?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Ask Jeff at The Train Tender, I'm sure he knows the difference. I know that I got some that would fit the newer O-31 switches, but not the original 022 switches. Before that, I didn't realize there was any difference. The size of the pin on the switch was different on the new switches, smaller than the original 022 and it's brothers.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have some of the later switches, and the pin is slightly larger, but the plugs fit. I use a blue crimp on lug rather than the Lionel plug as the blue lugs stay on better and are much cheaper. 

The model number for the O-31 switches is 022, not O22. zero22. 

There was a guy at the swap meet in Anaheim that was selling O-27 track for 25 cents, and he had a lot of it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I had some plugs that didn't fit, hence my warning.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The blue lugs will not fit the later switches. That is how I know the pin is larger. I was going to modify the blue lugs if necessary by slitting them down one side. Haven't had to do that yet.

Two warnings about the newer switches: (1)The tolerances inside the switch motor sometimes need adjustment. See my long post on CTT re 022 and 711 switches for a method for making the adjustment; and (2) some of the later switch motors use a cheap printed circuit board for the sliding switches. The circuit board will erode rather quickly and the switch is destroyed. This is a good reason not to buy the later switches. The original 022 switches look like they will last forever.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> I have some of the later switches, and the pin is slightly larger, but the plugs fit. I use a blue crimp on lug rather than the Lionel plug as the blue lugs stay on better and are much cheaper.
> 
> The model number for the O-31 switches is 022, not O22. zero22.
> 
> There was a guy at the swap meet in Anaheim that was selling O-27 track for 25 cents, and he had a lot of it.


Now I see o22 not O/22. I wonder why they just didn't put on the box O/31?
Anaheim is just a bit too far for me.



servoguy said:


> The blue lugs will not fit the later switches. That is how I know the pin is larger. I was going to modify the blue lugs if necessary by slitting them down one side. Haven't had to do that yet.
> 
> Two warnings about the newer switches: (1)The tolerances inside the switch motor sometimes need adjustment. See my long post on CTT re 022 and 711 switches for a method for making the adjustment; and (2) some of the later switch motors use a cheap printed circuit board for the sliding switches. The circuit board will erode rather quickly and the switch is destroyed. This is a good reason not to buy the later switches. The original 022 switches look like they will last forever.


What do the blue lugs look like?
Lionel part?


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

No, they are crimp on lugs for wiring. You can get them at Radio Shack or Home Depot.

Your unwillingness to go to Anaheim to buy track for a quarter is an indication of your lack of dedication to the hobby


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## TundraBoy (Nov 5, 2012)

Don Trinko said:


> My layout is o 27. The advantage of o 27 is that the turning radius is smaller. I would start with what you have. If in the future you go a different path that is fine.
> Some want elaborate layouts (nothing wrong with that) but for me I just enjoy the train going around a loop. Every so often I add a little smoke oil and blow the horn. Don


After all the comments, I am still inclined to go with the O-27. I plan a more elaborate layout than the one I remember from 50 years ago. If the bug bites harder....who knows were I will go then!


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

People use different types of track for different reasons. O-27 has the advantage of more track in a smaller space. Some guys use it because the rails are close to scale size. And if you want wider radius for part of the layout, it is available.


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## Lionelfan61 (Jan 15, 2013)

*Lionel 2032 alco help*

He'll my name is Jordan and sorta new to this. I recently bout a lionel 2032 Erie alco offline. It's in pretty bad condition. Sadly to say it needs a lot of work. But I think I'm up too it. I've worked on o gauge trains before. I feel that I can do this restoration. If anyone has any web sites to get parts or any exploded diagrams of the train please post. 
Thanks a lot,
Jordan


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I suggest the Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual For Lionel Trains 1945-1969 for pre-1970 stuff, and for later models, you can get the information from Lionel at Lionel Train Service Documents.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

We've all used the Olsen's website tech library in the past ... a great resource for pre- and post-war Lionel tech docs, parts drawings, etc. However, they went offline a couple of months ago, and it looks like they don't plan to go back online anytime too soon (per John's detective work).

As an option, you can buy from any of many vendors on ebay a CD or DVD with dozens of pre- and post-war Lionel files: old catalogs, Greenbergs, service documents, Doyle guides, etc. Typically around $15.

TJ


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## colin10 (Jan 15, 2013)

My dad gave my son his childhood train. It's over 60 years old. It needs a little TLC. Here's a video of it on our YouTube channel.


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## stevetil (Sep 6, 2011)

One of the things I did back when I was in HO
(you can pronounce that Ho!) was to use two
different rail heights for different purposes.
So Code 83 track for the mainline and Code 70
for the sidings, yard, and branch line.

I am trying to do the same thing using both O-31
and O-27 track on my Lionel layout. However, I
have enough space that the only place I use
actual O-27 curves is for the trolley line in the city.
The branch, sidings, and yard all use O-42 size
although O-27 height rails.

All of the main line is regular O gauge, with almost
all visible curves being O-72 and likewise O-72
switches. Some hidden turnback loops are O-54
or even O-42, but O gauge height. I like it!

My old 221 engine from 1946 doesn't like going through
the O-72 switches, but I am planning on installing some
roller pickups on the tender...


..


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> As an option, you can buy from any of many vendors on ebay a CD or DVD with dozens of pre- and post-war Lionel files: old catalogs, Greenbergs, service documents, Doyle guides, etc. Typically around $15.
> 
> TJ


As I mentioned before, be careful with those options. I bought a set of CD's, and they were 90% worthless. I can't even find them now, but since they were so useless, I'm not spending any time looking! You have to know what you're buying.


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## Lionelfan61 (Jan 15, 2013)

Hello guys, I'm sorta new to this, but I'm excited to learn it. I recently bought a lionel 2032 alco diesel. The engine is in pretty rough shape. I've worked with a few lionel trains before and I think I'm up to the job of restoring it. If Anyone knows of a good place to get parts for these please let me know. Also if anyone know any info on these, let me as we'll 

Thanks a lot,
Jordan


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## colin10 (Jan 15, 2013)

I was thinking of having our restored. I was thinking of asking Lionel of who to send it to.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

We have a Lionel "resource" thread, here ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8090

Several Lionel parts dealers out there. Many of us on the forum (myself included) are very happy with Jeff Kane at the Train Tender. Info in the link.

TJ


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## callmeIshmael2 (May 28, 2012)

*From one tundra boy to another*

Welcome, TB. I grew up on the Canadian prairie, so I feel I qualify as a tundra boy myself, altho' I'm in my 60s. Your 2055 and (likely) 6026W tender were made in multiplicity by Lionel back in the golden years and were the recipients of a massive amount of love and attention, as they were often seen by passersby in Christmas windows, etc., and were under many trees on Christmas morning. Kids love toy trains, and I have mine to thank for getting me back into the hobby. While common enough back in the day, sets like yours were quality items and are a real pleasure to learn to service and occasionally fix. They will run forever with some attention. 

Just my opinion: This site is administered by experts such as GunrunnerJohn, Servoguy, T-Man, Big Ed and Big Mike, Alan Reizman and many others guys and some gals who share their knowledge. Watch for In-service pix of projects such as replacing smoke units (pills are expensive, MegaSteam smoke can be used in your unit to create better smoke, etc.). I am deeply indebted to many of the guys who express their knowledgeable opinions and show you how to do it. It's a great hobby, and people make the difference...


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