# Problem With O22 /5133 Remote Switch



## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

Functions normally with fixed voltage plug, but no lights or action on track power. Looking for suggestions as to where to start checking. Thank you.

Pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Well if you keep the plug installed, the poor liitle contact bar does not swing back to make contact. So it does not work. Check that first.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

T-Man is on the job, that's almost surely the issue, it's a common problem.


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

The fixed plug was not installed when I first tried the switch. I installed it, provided accessory voltage and the switch functioned. I'll check that the spring contact is not bent and is making contact. In case that's not it, what's next?

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well Pete, that's almost surely it, clean the contact area between the leaf contact and the post before you totally give it up as well. A simple test is to provide track power and then hold the two together, I'm betting you'll find that the switch comes alive.


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

Still no joy. Looks like the next step is to pull the switch motor and see what's up with the other end of the red wire that's soldered to the spring contact.

Pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The contact is connected to the center rail. You need throttle to turn it on. That's my plan B.
Also, this is really simple with no intention to insult your intelligence, The switch will not switch, if it is aready in position. I am not positive but I do not think it will even buzz at that point. 

Plan C is check your wiring. Here.


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

T-Man said:


> The contact is connected to the center rail. You need throttle to turn it on. That's my plan B.
> Also, this is really simple with no intention to insult your intelligence, The switch will not switch, if it is aready in position. I am not positive but I do not think it will even buzz at that point.
> 
> Plan C is check your wiring. Here.



Correct. Throttle was up full, lighted car on track to confirm. Wiring is like all my other working switches. And why would I be trying to throw the switch to the position it's already in? That would just be silly. Hope you're having fun and thanks for the "help."

Meantime, I'm thinking the problem is the wiring from the switch frog rail, possibly the contact spring.

Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

022 switches do not buzz or do anything if they're already in position, the non-derailing feature and the switch voltage is fed through the contacts. If the switch gets power with the constant voltage plug but not with track power, the issue is very close to the contact for the constant voltage plug. There's a wire that runs from the leaf contact to pickup track power, maybe the contact that picks up the power is bad, split the switch halves and check that.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Pete, go check my post "022/711 switch operating pblms" on the trains.com forum. I posted a complete set of instructions on how to restore the 022 switches to reliable operation. There are many things to do to the switches to cure all the problems of age.

One of the things that happens to the spring contact for the constant voltage plug is that the spring breaks off or the rivet holding it breaks. I give instructions on how to fix both problems.
Bruce Baker


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bruce, you really should post a link to that excellent set of instruction, or copy them here and have them put into one of the O-scale stickies. It's not that easy to find them over there.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John, I can't find the post. I wonder if the wizards lost it? Is there an archive on that site? I tried 022/711 switch operation pblms, 022/711 switch operating pblms, 022/711 switch and nothing comes up. Any ideas. If that post is lost, we have lost something very valuable. I had a lot of work in that post.
BB


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

*Problem Solved*

Wiring from the constant voltage plug was OK but once I removed the switch machine I could see the frog rail spring wasn't making proper contact at the other end. Straightened it a little and we good to go.

Bruce - I printed out your excellent O22 overhaul instructions some time ago, put 'em in my train folder and forgot I had them. 

Pete


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Pete, could you post the instructions on this web site? They seem to be gone from the other web site.
Thanks
Bruce


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

servoguy said:


> Pete, could you post the instructions on this web site? They seem to be gone from the other web site.
> Thanks
> Bruce


Glad to:

﻿ "I have just finished a long project of restoring 55 022 switches. Here is what I have found and what I
recommend. I hope I don't miss anything. This involves oiling and soldering and a little adjustment. 
When you are done with the switches, they should operate very smoothly.

1. Remove the switch motor cover, the switch motor, and the back cover of the switch.

2. Lubricate the following places in the switch motor: The latch should be oiled at the pivots and
where it slides over the moving piece that is connected to the solenoid. Lubricate the lantern pivot and
the gear. Lubricate the slide that is attached to the solenoid. Lubricate the two rivets that hold the slide
with the contacts. Put two drops of oil in the solenoid. Test the switch motor by putting a lantern in the
lantern holder and turning it. It should turn very freely. 

3. Solder all the crimp connections on the bottom side of the switch. These are often high resistance
due to corrosion. I either wire brush them with a small soft wire wheel in a Dremel tool, or use a fine
sandpaper wheel in the Dremel tool. There are a total of 6 places to solder: Two for the center rails,
one for each of the rails that are the rails for the non-derailing feature, and two that connect the two
outside rails together. To sand the clip that connects the two outer rails, I had to reverse the sanding
disc on the Dremel tool. Don't put too much solder on this clip, or the solder may interfere with the
operation of the switch motor. Use a Scotchbrite pad to clean the clip where it contacts the switch
motor frame. This is the ground connection between the switch motor and the outside rails. Clean the
corresponding area on the switch motor, and put a little WD-40 on things. Tighten the screw that
connects the center rail to the strap. Work the screw back and forth a couple of times to burnish the
contact area. Test the connections between the outside rails and the center rails. I use a cheap meter
that you can buy from Harbor Freight for this. The resistance should be less than 0.1 ohms. These
cheap meters usually don't read zero ohms when you short the leads together, but whatever they do
read with the leads shorted you can use as your "zero." 

4. Clean the silver contacts with WD-40. Most of the tarnish should come off of them. Do not use
anything abrasive to clean them as it will probably damage the silver. Leave some WD-40 on these
contacts as it is an excellent contact cleaner. 

5. Use a wire brush on a Dremel tool to clean the 3 contacts on the bottom of the switch that connect
to the switch motor. One of these is a flat brass strip that is spring loaded and connects to the fat center
rail. The other two connect to the two rails that are used to make the switch non-derailing. 

6. Clean the two contacts on the switch motor that mate with the two pins on the bottom of the switch
that connect to the non-derailing rails. Bend these two up a little so they make a good contact, and put
a little WD-40 on them. Clean the two brass contacts on each side between the silver contacts with a
wire brush on the Dremel tool. These two contact are where the power comes to the switch motor
from the center rail. One or the other is used depending on which side the switch motor is on.

7. Put a little WD-40 on the contact spring that contacts the pin for the constant voltage plug. Snap the
spring a few times to make sure the contact is clean. If the rivet that holds this spring is broken (I had
two switches with broken rivets), you can repair it by soldering it back together. Clean both surfaces
with a wire wheel in a Dremel tool, and tin each surface with solder. Then hold the spring in place and
heat the spring until the solder softens, and then hold the spring in place until the solder cools. You
need to make sure the spring is somewhat bent when you do this so that it makes a good contact with
the pin.

8. Put the switch motor back on the switch. Put a drop of oil in each of the screw holes so you can get
the screws out 100 years from now. Check the switch for smooth operation. It should operate
smoothly with minimal friction. Check the resistance between each of the outer terminals and the
appropriate non-derailing rail. Once again, the resistance should be less than 0.1 ohms. Check the
resistance between the center rail and the constant voltage pin. It should be less than 0.1 ohms. Check
the resistance between the center terminal and one of the outside rails. It should be less than 0.1 ohms.
Check the resistance between each of the outer terminals and the center rail with the switch points
about half way beween the two outer rails. They should be about 7-8 ohms. 

9. There is a solder tab on the constant voltage pin that is usually very near the pin. If you bend this tab
away from the pin, you can use a blue crimp lug for a constant voltage plug. These crimp lugs don't
come loose like the Lionel plugs do. Some switch motors have a pin that is too large to use the crimp
lug, so for these, you will have to use a Lionel plug.

10. Put the covers on and again check the switch for smooth operation. You may have to move the
switch motor cover around a little to make sure the lantern does not bind against the cover. 

11. Check the end of the fat center rail to see that it is not bent down. If it is, your little 0-4-0 switch
engine may stall on the switch. If you bend it up too far, it will open the electromagnetic couplers for
you. 

I hope I didn't miss anything. If I think of something else, I'll post it later." 

﻿Sorry 'bout the formatting, I just copied it over from wordperfect.

Pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

CTT FOrum

I found this Bruce 022 switch

Posted By Bruce AKA Servoguy.


I have just finished a long project of restoring 55 022 switches. Here is what I have found and what I recommend. I hope I don't miss anything. This involves oiling and soldering and a little adjustment. When you are done with the switches, they should operate very smoothly.


1. Remove the switch motor cover, the switch motor, and the back cover of the switch.

2. Lubricate the following places in the switch motor: The latch should be oiled at the pivots and where it slides over the moving piece that is connected to the solenoid. Lubricate the lantern pivot and the gear. Lubricate the slide that is attached to the solenoid. Lubricate the two rivets that hold the slide with the contacts. Put two drops of oil in the solenoid. Test the switch motor by putting a lantern in the lantern holder and turning it. It should turn very freely. 

3. Solder all the crimp connections on the bottom side of the switch. These are often high resistance due to corrosion. I either wire brush them with a small soft wire wheel in a Dremel tool, or use a fine sandpaper wheel in the Dremel tool. There are a total of 6 places to solder: Two for the center rails, one for each of the rails that are the rails for the non-derailing feature, and two that connect the two outside rails together. To sand the clip that connects the two outer rails, I had to reverse the sanding disc on the Dremel tool. Don't put too much solder on this clip, or the solder may interfere with the operation of the switch motor. Use a Scotchbrite pad to clean the clip where it contacts the switch motor frame. This is the ground connection between the switch motor and the outside rails. Clean the corresponding area on the switch motor, and put a little WD-40 on things. Tighten the screw that connects the center rail to the strap. Work the screw back and forth a couple of times to burnish the contact area. Test the connections between the outside rails and the center rails. I use a cheap meter that you can buy from Harbor Freight for this. The resistance should be less than 0.1 ohms. These cheap meters usually don't read zero ohms when you short the leads together, but whatever they do read with the leads shorted you can use as your "zero." 


4. Clean the silver contacts with WD-40. Most of the tarnish should come off of them. Do not use anything abrasive to clean them as it will probably damage the silver. Leave some WD-40 on these contacts as it is an excellent contact cleaner. 

5. Use a wire brush on a Dremel tool to clean the 3 contacts on the bottom of the switch that connect to the switch motor. One of these is a flat brass strip that is spring loaded and connects to the fat center rail. The other two connect to the two rails that are used to make the switch non-derailing. 

6. Clean the two contacts on the switch motor that mate with the two pins on the bottom of the switch that connect to the non-derailing rails. Bend these two up a little so they make a good contact, and put a little WD-40 on them. Clean the two brass contacts on each side between the silver contacts with a wire brush on the Dremel tool. These two contact are where the power comes to the switch motor from the center rail. One or the other is used depending on which side the switch motor is on.


7. Put a little WD-40 on the contact spring that contacts the pin for the constant voltage plug. Snap the spring a few times to make sure the contact is clean. If the rivet that holds this spring is broken (I had two switches with broken rivets), you can repair it by soldering it back together. Clean both surfaces with a wire wheel in a Dremel tool, and tin each surface with solder. Then hold the spring in place and heat the spring until the solder softens, and then hold the spring in place until the solder cools. You need to make sure the spring is somewhat bent when you do this so that it makes a good contact with the pin.

8. Put the switch motor back on the switch. Put a drop of oil in each of the screw holes so you can get the screws out 100 years from now. Check the switch for smooth operation. It should operate smoothly with minimal friction. Check the resistance between each of the outer terminals and the appropriate non-derailing rail. Once again, the resistance should be less than 0.1 ohms. Check the resistance between the center rail and the constant voltage pin. It should be less than 0.1 ohms. Check the resistance between the center terminal and one of the outside rails. It should be less than 0.1 ohms. Check the resistance between each of the outer terminals and the center rail with the switch points about half way beween the two outer rails. They should be about 7-8 ohms. 

9. There is a solder tab on the constant voltage pin that is usually very near the pin. If you bend this tab away from the pin, you can use a blue crimp lug for a constant voltage plug. These crimp lugs don't come loose like the Lionel plugs do. Some switch motors have a pin that is too large to use the crimp lug, so for these, you will have to use a Lionel plug.


10. Put the covers on and again check the switch for smooth operation. You may have to move the switch motor cover around a little to make sure the lantern does not bind against the cover. 


11. Check the end of the fat center rail to see that it is not bent down. If it is, your little 0-4-0 switch engine may stall on the switch. If you bend it up too far, it will open the electromagnetic couplers for you. 

I hope I didn't miss anything. If I think of something else, I'll post it later.
end quote

Need Anything else????

I guess we found it.


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

So you can find it with google but not with the ctt forum search engine. Ridiculous.

Pete


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I did find it with the forum search engine. It took longer to find the forum. I can see it can be deceiving. What a mess. the first time I searched it was the magazine data base not the forum. As a user I have it marked as a favorite now.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

What you guys have posted so far is only the first part. It is much longer than what you have posted. Can you find the rest of it? 

BB


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## Texas Pete (Sep 28, 2011)

Bruce - I think it's all at the link T-man posted "O-22 Switch" or: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/164691.aspx?PageIndex=1

Pete


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Apparently the search engines at the CTT forum has gone in the tank. Here is the link:

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/164691.aspx?PageIndex=1

Don't stop at page one. It goes on for 6 pages.
BB


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

You can Google the post at 022/711 switch operation pblms


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

If you click my link You can see the thread. I am not sure how much do you want ? You discussed bulbs in length with Bob Nelson.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The bulb stuff is important because it is easy to melt the lanterns if 18 volt bulbs are used and the switches are run on 20 volts. IMHO, the cheapest solution is the diode because diodes are cheaper than bulbs.

BB


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have copied some of it on note pad. Do you want a copy and are you interested in an edited version here? I can do it but I will leave out the Bob Nelson comments. I respect their site and will only move to post your info at your request.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd consider consolidating all the comments and organizing them a bit, it would make it a lot more usable.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I would like to have a copy because I am concerned that CTT might lose it. Also, I would like to see it posted on this site. If you want to organize it, John, be my guest.

BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, I was figuring on the author organizing it.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

OK, I will do it when T sends it to me.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

In what form are you expecting him to send you the post? I have it in text files, obviously requiring editing. I'm figuring you'd have to extract the content of your posts anyway.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John,
Send me the text files. I can edit them.
Thanks


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

servoguy said:


> John,
> Send me the text files. I can edit them.
> Thanks


Ask and you shall receive.  Attached is a ZIP file with all of the thread pages in text form.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

John,
I am leaving out Bob Nelson's long dissertation on light bulbs, but it is necessary to leave in some of the posts by the other guys. Is this going to be OK?
BB


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Bruce, my advice would be to write any of the additional stuff in your own words. After all, when I learn something in a forum, I feel free to type it into another forum in my own words, there's no copyright on ideas yet.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

This is from the Lionel Service website, same info. from lebshift21


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## seabilliau (Dec 12, 2011)

Is the Lionel Remote Control Swithces from 1995 wired the same as the older ones? All my switches are 6-23010/1. I think my issues are pin connection and/or enough power to track related but wanted to know if I could use servoguy's instructions to open them up.

http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/72-3010-250.pdf

Knowns:
-Rails have been cleaned and scrubbed.
-There are loose pin connections between the extensions and the switch (I know, I know, I need to crimp)

Sympton #1:
Loco comes to a complete stop after first roller leaves the switch (sometimes the roller is on the switch extention, sometimes it is when the roller is past the extention and on a piece of regular track).

Sympton #2:
One switch will switch to open using remote, but will not switch back when suing remote.

Sympton #3:
Once switch will not switch over completley. It switches half way. The nonderailing workes fine on it though when I tun a loco around and have it coming from the other direction.

If I crimp the connections, and supply more power, and I still have these symptons, where should I start?

Thanks 

C Billiau


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The 6-23010/1 switches are totally different than the 022-5132/3 switches. You can open them up, but the servicing is not going to be the same.

I'd start by looking over these documents and familiarize yourself with the switch internal operation.

Lionel 3010/3011 User's Manual

Lionel 3010/3011 Pictorial Diagram


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