# New to DCC. Need some help



## craftech (Nov 6, 2018)

Hi to everyone and a Happy New Year.

I am a long time DC train owner and my wife and son got me an NCE Power Cab Complete DCC Starter Set and an N-Scale Kato 176-8609 EMD SD70M w/DCC engine. I set it up but there is no sound. When I looked at the specs for the on board (TCS) K1D4 Decoder it doesn't look like it has sound. 

What would I need to add sound to the setup?

Regards,

John


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Digitrax has a DCC* drop in* sound decoder, SDXN146K1E, you do need to make a enclosure for the stock speaker or replace with a sugar cube speaker and enclosure. Another option would be to use a DCC sound decoder like ESU and a good speaker, you will need to hard wire it yourself. *Skills required!
*
The easy way out is to purchase a sound equipped loco, Atlas, BLI, and Intermountain has some great locos.


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## craftech (Nov 6, 2018)

Thanks for the quick reply Jim. I really appreciate it.
I think they bought it for me to pull the Union Pacific Passenger Cars (rapido couplers) have to be changed). 

Is there any way I can add a SDXN146K1 to one of those and have the NCE power cab control both the sound decoder and the TCS K1D4 as well? I am very good at soldering and modifications and repairs of most things with the right information.

Regards,

John


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

That Digitrax decoder should control BOTH motion and sound. It would replace the other. 

There are also sound-only add ins, at least in HO scale.

But yes, your NCE will control BOTH the sounds and the motion, whatever combination you chose.


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## craftech (Nov 6, 2018)

Maybe that would be a good option. I can probably find the necessary mods to house the speaker on YouTube. Or if I can find out how to make one of the Rivarosi passenger cars house the sound card I'll do that. Are there any good DIY mod for N-scale forums around that you know about?

Regards,

John


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## craftech (Nov 6, 2018)

Follow-up:

The brand new Kato EMD-SD70M stopped working. Had only run it back and forth a few times. Tested the light functions. Now, won't move, no lights - nothing. Dead. Tried it on another track with a standard power supply - Nothing. Total run time for that brand new loco - about three minutes.

Fortunately my son was here today so I gave it back to him to return via Amazon (fortunately). Very disappointing. 

Thanks for all the help,

John


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Speaker placement*



craftech said:


> Maybe that would be a good option. I can probably find the necessary mods to house the speaker on YouTube. Or if I can find out how to make one of the Rivarosi passenger cars house the sound card I'll do that. Are there any good DIY mod for N-scale forums around that you know about?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John


 John;

I used a lap top computer speaker from my local electronics surplus store to fix my N-scale sound situation. The drop in decoder made for my Kato F-unit had a tiny speaker firing directly up into the solid plastic of the body shell. Result: this old, slightly deaf, fart couldn't hear it very well. I mounted the lap top speaker in a dummy B-unit, firing down at the track through a big hole cut in the B-unit's floor. Huge improvement in volume and sound quality! I don't see why you couldn't do the same thing with a passenger car. BTW I didn't use an enclosure for the speaker. The body shell itself made a good enclosure.

good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Kato quality*



craftech said:


> Follow-up:
> 
> The brand new Kato EMD-SD70M stopped working. Had only run it back and forth a few times. Tested the light functions. Now, won't move, no lights - nothing. Dead. Tried it on another track with a standard power supply - Nothing. Total run time for that brand new loco - about three minutes.
> 
> ...


 John;

Your bad experience with a Kato locomotive is both very unfortunate, and very unusual. Kato products all across the board, are normally very high quality. I'm glad your son was able to return it for you. I guess any company can produce an occasional dud. I own more than a dozen Kato locomotives and all work perfectly.

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## craftech (Nov 6, 2018)

traction fan said:


> John;
> 
> Your bad experience with a Kato locomotive is both very unfortunate, and very unusual. Kato products all across the board, are normally very high quality. I'm glad your son was able to return it for you. I guess any company can produce an occasional dud. I own more than a dozen Kato locomotives and all work perfectly.
> 
> Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


I can't help thinking it may have been the NCE controller maybe? Maybe it burned out the logic board, but then shouldn't the loco run on DC anyway? Maybe not. I had a SPDT toggle switch in line with both controllers so I could switch engines and power sources for the track. Seemed like that was working.

I still have both ancient Kato / Atlas locos that run perfectly. Maybe the TCS board is sensitive or maybe I should return the NCE Power Cab or maybe I should stick with DC. Confused.

John


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

John

You may have damaged your DCC controller.

You state you had a SPDT switches in line with
both DC and DCC supplies. That sounds like you
used the 'common rail' system designed to select
between 2 DC power packs for block control. DCC
controllers cannot be connected that way. 

You should have had ONE DPDT switch.
The center tabs to the track, DC power pack
to the left end tabs, the DCC controller output
to the other end tabs. One way the switch feed
DC from the power pack, the other feeds the track
by the DCC controller. This circuit would prevent
any connection between the two track power sources

With the two SPDTs you could easily have fed
DC back into your DCC controller. That could
have damaged it. You also could have had
both DC and DCC's AC on the track at the same
time. That could have damaged the loco decoder.

You can partially test the DCC controller. Use
your multimeter on AC volts. Disconnect
the DCC controller from the switches and track. You should
see around 14 volts when you turn on the power.

If you get no output you may have to return it
under warranty. Most makes replace damaged
units even if you caused the damage.

Don


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## spikedrivingblues (Dec 11, 2018)

craftech said:


> I can't help thinking it may have been the NCE controller maybe? Maybe it burned out the logic board, but then shouldn't the loco run on DC anyway? Maybe not. I had a SPDT toggle switch in line with both controllers so I could switch engines and power sources for the track. Seemed like that was working.
> 
> I still have both ancient Kato / Atlas locos that run perfectly. Maybe the TCS board is sensitive or maybe I should return the NCE Power Cab or maybe I should stick with DC. Confused.
> 
> John


Hi, John. I had a small DC layout when I was a kid and got away from the hobby. I got back into as a middle aged man recently because I was interested in DCC. 

I am in no way qualified to diagnose your problem...the loco, Power Cab or something else but I can relate to attributing problems to the fact that you're now doing DCC instead of DC. 

I did this early on in my new DCC layout and it turned out that not one time was the problem related to the difference between DCC and DC. 

I wouldn't be in a rush to give up on DCC, once you get somewhat familiar with it you will realize it is simpler than DC.

Of course, now that I've taken the time to post this it will probably be the case that you have the only faulty NCE Power Cab I've heard of :laugh:

Good Luck!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Defective products pop up in every product line, no matter how reputable the brand. That's no reason to give up on either the brand or the products.

As Don suggested, though, this may be operator error.


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## craftech (Nov 6, 2018)

Sorry guys. I have to apologize for the mistake I made in the above post. I did not use a SPDT switch. It was a DPDT switch with the two track wires going to the center two terminals (Center Off) and the DC at one end's two terminals and the DCC at the other. 

But I really do appreciate all the help you are giving me.


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## craftech (Nov 6, 2018)

DonR said:


> John
> 
> You can partially test the DCC controller. Use
> your multimeter on AC volts. Disconnect
> ...


Seems to jump all over the place when tested at the track output terminals. 16 v AC, then 0v, then 3.16v. Tried increasing speed dial - little difference. Maybe the controller burned out the decoder in the Kato?

John


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

So if you had a DPDT switch, you can rule that out as a potential cause.

Time to contact NCE and see if you just got a lemon.


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

craftech said:


> Seems to jump all over the place when tested at the track output terminals. 16 v AC, then 0v, then 3.16v. Tried increasing speed dial - little difference. Maybe the controller burned out the decoder in the Kato?
> 
> John


You can't measure track voltage that way. I suggest you get another working DCC loco to test on your system. With a DCC system there is always a constant AC voltage on the rails, turning up the throttle will have no affect. I have about 50 Kato locos and yes they do have lots of problems. It could be the DCC decoder isn't making a connection with the frame, or the frame to truck contacts are corroded, or not adjusted correctly. 


There are two different types of DPDT switches, one is shorting and the other is non shorting. If you are using a shorting DPDT switch always make sure you have both controllers turned off before using the switch.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rrjim1 said:


> You can't measure track voltage that way. I suggest you get another working DCC loco to test on your system. With a DCC system there is always a constant AC voltage on the rails, turning up the throttle will have no affect. I have about 50 Kato locos and yes they do have lots of problems. It could be the DCC decoder isn't making a connection with the frame, or the frame to truck contacts are corroded, or not adjusted correctly.
> 
> 
> There are two different types of DPDT switches, one is shorting and the other is non shorting. If you are using a shorting DPDT switch always make sure you have both controllers turned off before using the switch.


Doesn't a "center off" switch have to be "a break before make" type, by definition ition?


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## rrjim1 (Mar 12, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Doesn't a "center off" switch have to be "a break before make" type, by definition ition?


Of course, if he stated his switch was center off I must have missed it. Anyway good information for someone that doesn't know.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

rrjim1 said:


> Of course, if he stated his switch was center off I must have missed it. Anyway good information for someone that doesn't know.


Up there in Post #13.


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