# Celebrity Look-alike : A Lionel 258 Insider Profile



## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

We've all seen them before ...

During those times (you'd be embarrased to admit) when your flipping around the TV late at night watching TMZ or the TV-Guide Channel. You'll come across one of those Celebrity Look-Alike features where some average Joe or Jane glimmers in their fleeting 15 minutes of fame. Pouty lips and flowing brown hair, and an Octomom thinks she's Angelina Jolie. Shaky legs and some sequins, and bingo ... it's an Elvis clone. Throw in a blond wig, a white dress and a blowing subway vent, and just about anyone can pass for Marilyn Monroe. White glove and a little moonwalk shuffle, and ... well ... you get the idea.

And while many of us would love to live a celebrity's life, if even just for a day, the fact remains ... we're all just average Joes, going about our daily grind.

Such is the case for the Lionel 258 prewar loco, circa 1941. Sure, he looks a lot like the famous and popular Lionel 259, but don't let those looks deceive you. They may share the same chiseled chin, the a similar upper brow, but the 258 is no Hollywood jet-setter. With a Junior motor and wheels that are, well, (ahem ... ahem) "not so well endowed", the 258 is best left going through life playing in some seedy night club act.

Sadly, my family has recently adopted one of these 258 wanna-be's. And, like everyone's strange Uncle George or whacky cousin Wanda, you wouldn't really pick 'em for a friend, but, they're family, and you know that you're ultimately stuck with them.

And so, if you'll indulge another schmuck's 15 minutes of fleeting fame, I present "Elvis" ... my crazy 258 celebrity look-alike cousin, with his wanna-be 259 reflection in the mirror.

Now turn off the TV, and go to bed ...

TJ

PS -- 

If I can't convince Elvis to go back to his trailer park in Memphis, it's likely I'll be stuck posting a few more updates here ... how his motor compares to the real 259 motor and to the Lionel 1681 Junior motor; maybe some candid pics, if I can convince him to ditch the cheezy garb, and get cleaned up a bit. We'll see. Stick around ... or not ... but if you do, just don't admit it to anyone you know!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Marilyn Monroe?
You think I could pass?



ha ha ha ha:laugh:

paint it up and put 259 on it.

why is the train upside down?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

A blonde wig and some red lipstick, Ed, and you just might pull it off. You could drive the other truckers wild! 

Just to be clear, that's the 258 on top, and a 259 (with much bigger wheel set, fancier drive rod gear, etc.) on the bottom.

(Hey ... do a google search on MM and NJ ... a little doobie action back in the '50's ... add that one to your Jersey list!)

Cheers,

TJ


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

Huh? That is interesting.... I'll be watching this.... the train, not Ed


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

Just a hunka-hunka burnin' love! Go for it, big guy!


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I prefer the spoke wheel versions. The 258 looked boxier in the early years. I did a quick check with the 249e and it is larger than the 259e. as in O to 027. A pictorial when it's complete. 
Ugh I still need trailing/ leading wheels too.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi again guys,

I think I should explain a bit more about what prompted my interest in 258's and how that steers some of the things I'll be looking at in this thread...

As some of you may know, I'm hopelessly addicted to prewar Lionel Junior 1681 locos ... neat looking little steamers. As I've restored a few, I've amassed extra loco shells that have no motors. So I began hunting around to see what other (if any) Lionel locos may have shared that same Lionel Junior motor design. The quick answer (as I understand it, at the time of writing this) is:

*Sharing Lionel Junior Style Motor*
Lionel 1664 early-generation versions
Lionel 1681 (excluding the Ives 1661 look-alike clones)
Lionel 1688 early generation versions
Lionel 258 (2nd version, as discussed here)

However, there are subtle differences to all of the above, and I'm not sure if the motors are fully interchangeable ... that's a driving reason for my interest in the 258 and this thread.

Now, before going on, I must clarify that there were TWO completely different Lionel 258 prewar steam locos. (It's a mystery to me why Lionel chose to use the same number tag.) The *first version 258* was a 2-4-0 loco produced in 1930, and looked like this (photo via David Doyle's prewar catalog book):










That's a different beast from the later 258 focus of interest in this thread here. The *second version 258 *is a 2-4-2 produced in 1941, and built upon the 1930's 259 frame and shell. However, as stated earlier, this 258 has less trim, smaller wheels, and a smaller (Lionel Junior) motor, as compared to its fancier 259 cousin.

Now, let's take a closer look at motors ...

*The 1681E (circa 1934, with e-unit) has a Lionel Junior motor that looks like this:*




















*My 258 (1941 second version) has a motor that looks like this:*



















At first glance, the motors look similar. As far as I can tell, the motors share the exact same motor-cheek, armature, brush plate design. However, there are important differences:

1. The 258 motor has its field coil mounted in a large notch cut (at the factory, presumably) into the motor cheeks. I'm assuming this later-generation field coil was physically larger than it's 1934 precursor, and that the Lionel engineers had to implemement the "notched" motor cheek modification in order to get it to fit! Several of us forum members discussed ideas on this theory in this "notched" thread here: http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5296

2. The e-unit on the 1681 is built with its lever mounted on the FORWARD face of the unit. However, the e-unit on the 1681 is built with its lever mounted ont the REAR face of the e-unit. At first glance, I figured that that simply meant that the same e-unit was intalled flipped around 180-degrees. But that is NOT the case. On both locos, the lower section of the e-unit (in way of the drum) is mounted within casing cheeks that extend aft, towards the rear of the loco. I've learned that the e-units for the 1681 and 258, while generally similar, are NOT interchangeable. If you attempted to do that with one, the lever would not align properly with the slot in the boiler shell.

I'll stop there, for now, and pick up more on this, later ... for anyone who's still awake!

(Some time later ...  )

OK, back to it ...

As we discuss the differences between the simple 258 and the fancier celebrity 259, we should talk about motor on the 259. (You've seen the motor on the 258, above.)

T-Man has been restoring an *early-generation 259e*. These *spoked-wheeled *versions were made around *1932-33*, and used a *single-reduction gear* in the motor:








...










In contrast, my *later-generation 259E (circa 1936-38*, and shown upside down in Post #1), had *cast wheels *and a *double-reduction gear* in the motor:




















I'm seeing the early- and later-generation 259 motors here side-by-side for the first time. In addition to the gearing differences, we can see that the motor assembly (cheek layout) is different between the two, as well.

And, in comparing _either_ of these 259 motors to the 258 motor pictured above, we can see that the 258 motor (with its Lionel Junior motor form) matches _neither_ of the 259 motors. Different beasts, for sure ... different "cheek" layout; different brush assembly; and the axles on the 258 are much closer together than those on the 259.

Notice the little L-bracket on the rear end of the 259 motors that's used to attach the motor to the 259 frames, specificaly on the cross-piece of the frame that is the cab floor.

Now, in contrast to this, *the 258 motor is physically smaller and shorter*. To mount it to the loco frame, Lionel added a *new bracket rivetted to the loco frame* just_ forward _of the cab floor. We can see this in the 258 photos below (one with the rear truck, and then zoomed in with the rear truck removed):



















So, if you happen to come across a 258 / 259 loco SHELL, one way to tell them apart is the bracket ... with bracket = 258; without bracket = 259.

I've noticed one other difference in the 258/259 shells. The 259 loco has a valve gear that's rivetted to the frame just behind the steam chest. As such, there's a hole in the "dimple" on the frame in way of where this rivet goes. But ... the 258 has no valve gear ... it has just the simple drive rods, instead. And, while the 258 still has this same "dimple" in the frame, there is NO hole in the dimple where the rivet "would" have been located.

And, interestingly, we've seen that the 258 does NOT have the "sandpipes" that come down from the front dome that exist on the 259. However, here, the holes in the frame and in the boiler shell where the sandpipes "would" have been located DO exist on the 258 frame and shell. And finally, the 259 has 3 small holes (per side) in way of where the "L" insignia gets tabbed to the cab side. The 258 has no insignia, and no tab holes.

So ... no hole in way of "missing" valve gear rivets, but holes in way of "missing" sandpipes:










These tips should help identify 258 vs. 259 motors and shells.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

This thread was interesting enough that it compelled me to acquire a 259e just today. It remains to be seen if I should thank you or curse you.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Konga Man said:


> This thread was interesting enough that it compelled me to acquire a 259e just today. It remains to be seen if I should thank you or curse you.


Uhhh ... please be advised that TJ has entered the Witness Protection Program, and is now using a pseudonym surname, and living in a nondiscrete town somewhere in the lower continental 48.

For those inquiring about Lionel 259E's, he's left the following link to a former associate of his, "Spike" the junkyard dog ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=3748

Signed,

John Doe


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Konga Man said:


> This thread was interesting enough that it compelled me to acquire a 259e just today. It remains to be seen if I should thank you or curse you.


Was it the one on e bay that needed TLC?
I almost bid on it.


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

It was one on eBay that needs some TLC. Which is why I bought it -- half the fun is in the resuscitation. Someone else's uncompleted project is always a crapshoot, though, isn't it?


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

T-Man said:


> Was it the one on e bay that needed TLC?
> I almost bid on it.


Yeah, me too. I decided to hold off till I get my current projects done.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Chinese Finger Torture Puzzle ...*

Hi guys,

I rolled up my sleeves today and started the rehab process on my 258 loco. First step was to begin cleaning / tuning the motor. The wiring was all old and brittle, so I've opted to replace it all (with the exception of the pickup power lead, which fortunately, is in OK shape).

In the process of tackling a rewire job on the e-unit, I noticed that the e-unit drum was pretty badly distorted and worn in way of the gear teeth. I was lucky to have a new, spare drum on hand, so I figured I'd pop the e-unit cheeks open, replace the drum, and have easier access for the rewire job in the process. Makes sense, right?

Well, _opening_ an *e-unit *is the easy part. *Putting it back together* falls somewhere between an ancient Chinese torture ritual and a Circ de Soleil contortionist act. If I had 27 fingers, it might have been a bit easier getting all of the bits lined up just right, then snapping the cheeks back into position.

In the end (about 1 hour later), I got the e-unit and its bits back together. However ...

*There must be some Rubix Cube trick to doing this. Any magic "twist left, spin right" tips from anyone ???*

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The magic is those 27 fingers!


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

Did you use the tool?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

SkyArcher said:


> Did you use the tool?


 Seriously?!?!? Are you kidding me? Is there really "a tool" ?!?!?

Do tell!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I use the tool to open it but the other end may help in lining up the drum. The sercret is the metal poll. Once you press on that the unit shut up and locks. So you get the four fingersin then line up the drum and squeese a little more then the the two finger board and press it together. 
Ihave to search for the lever tool.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Konga Man said:


> It was one on eBay that needs some TLC. Which is why I bought it -- half the fun is in the resuscitation. Someone else's uncompleted project is always a crapshoot, though, isn't it?


My first advice is to take a lot of before pictures. You know the motor runs. When you take it apart it is good to see where all the screws go. I am not sure I took enough. I was brushing the frame once and thought I lost a piece but I it was never there, at all, after I checked the before picture.

So shoot it up!


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## SkyArcher (Oct 20, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> Seriously?!?!? Are you kidding me? Is there really "a tool" ?!?!?
> 
> Do tell!
> 
> TJ


Ask T-man, he is the one with the "tool".


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The tool with the replacement parts.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You could probably make such a tool if you were so inclined.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Some places charge 7 or more. I got it from Stan Orr in NY, I believe for under 4. A silly vise is also sold, I haven't had a need for it.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> I use the tool to open it but the other end may help in lining up the drum. The sercret is the metal poll. Once you press on that the unit shut up and locks. So you get the four fingersin then line up the drum and squeese a little more then the the two finger board and press it together.
> Ihave to search for the lever tool.


Thanks, guys, for the info on the e-unit tool. I didn't know that something like that existed.

T-Man's description of the e-unit cheeks that must be pressed to "shut up and lock" is spot-on. When the little rod/pole pokes through a grabs a cheek, the cheeks lock up tight.

The tricky part is lining up everying inside in just the right position, such that their tabs are ready to engage in both cheeks ... but attempting to do that when the two cheeks are still too far apart to actually engage all of the parts.

In looking at the tool photos, I guess I don't yet see how the tool would actually help with that last tricky part. 

Thanks, guys!

TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It's just a hook to help hold the drum. So you only need 26 fingers not 27.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> It's just a hook to help hold the drum. *So you only need 26 fingers not 27*.



 No truer words have ever been spoken! 

Thanks, T-Man,

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi guys,

I've been meaning to post these pics ...

The Lionel 258 motor has now been rewired. There's a new drum in the e-unit, and I fiddled with the alignment of the contact fingers to get it running/reversing smoothly. Motor cleaned and lube throughout. It's running like a charm ... too fast, perhaps!

And the rusted, mangy loco shell is now staring me in the face ... "fix me ... fix me!" As much as I'd like to, I think any serious repaint work will have to wait until warmer weather in the spring.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, at least you have something to put in the shell when you get it painted.


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

That thing is definitely starting to look like George Clooney.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Reckers said:


> That thing is definitely starting to look like George Clooney.


:laugh:

... though I was really going for more of a Kim Kardashian look with the motor.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I Mod Podge the paper on the coils now.

Looking Good!:thumbsup:


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## Reckers (Oct 11, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> :laugh:
> 
> ... though I was really going for more of a Kim Kardashian look with the motor.


Now that you mention it, Lionel IS noted for having an enormous caboose!:laugh:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Very quick project update ...

I ordered some parts from Jeff Kane today, for both the 258 here, along with the 1688 in my other thread. The 258 is gonna get some new nickle domes and a smokestack, and a new shoulder screw to attach the rear truck.

I'm still thinking about shell color ideas. I really like what T-Man did with the blue scheme on his 259.

It's a long wait 'till warm springtime painting weather, though ...

TJ


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## Konga Man (Dec 12, 2010)

When you add up after all the time and money invested in these resto projects, the initial cost of the cadaver is minuscule. Which might lead one to wonder why we start out with the lowest-grade carcasses. More specifically, one can get an old-style 258, 262, etc., for not a whole lot more of a buy-in than the lowly 258, 259e, etc. They're easier to take apart (none of those freaking tabs), run better, look better, and worth more when they're done.

So why do we do it?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

We do one at a time. With NO cat lady duplicates!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

TJ is your wheel bad too?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Konga Man said:


> When you add up after all the time and money invested in these resto projects, the initial cost of the cadaver is minuscule. Which might lead one to wonder why we start out with the lowest-grade carcasses. More specifically, one can get an old-style 258, 262, etc., for not a whole lot more of a buy-in than the lowly 258, 259e, etc. They're easier to take apart (none of those freaking tabs), run better, look better, and worth more when they're done.
> 
> So why do we do it?


Dimentia ...
Uncontrolled addiction ...
Masochism ...

Take your pick. I'm guilty of all of the above! 

Seriously, I think you're point about the net cost of the completed project is a good one ... in my project cases, it's certainly been more (with parts, paint, time, etc.) than the relatively cheap cost of the junker itself. But I'm not in it for the money. I enjoy project like this simply because of the pleasure I get from bringing something that was on the scrap heap back to life. In an odd way, I find the restoration process therapeutic and relaxing.

Not that they're perfect in the end ... if you look close, you'll still see some dents, some chipped bits, etc. But they have a decent fighting chance of being around for another 75 years.

Ed -- you're right. That's my 259E motor (not the 258 from this thread). It does have a chipped wheel flange, but it doesn't really hinder running around the track at all. I left it just like that during the restoration ... part of the loco's lasting scars and life's stories, I guess.

Cheers, guys,

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*An Elvis Sighting ...*

Hi guys,

Well, it's been a while since I've given much thought to "Elvis" the Lionel 258 loco. He's been haning out in a smokey / seedy bar, waiting for the phone-of-fame to ring. Well, today's his lucky day. He's been given the opening entertainment act down at the local strip club ... fame and fortune are sure to follow ...

TJ

Hanging loose ... getting ready for the gig ...









Maybe a bubble bath, first ...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Elvis begins to clean up his act ...*

Well, our Elvis impersonator has finally taken the stage. To be blunt, he's a bit rusty and rough around the edges. He needs to brush away those cobwebs, and remember how to he used to rock and roll way back when ...

Go, Elvis, go ...

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, it looks like an engine shell now, that's a big improvement.  All the makings of a good looking rig.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

tjcruiser said:


> Hi again guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


TJ, I checked around this post and noticed one engine has a nose job at the light. I will be needing a front piece so I reviewed this thread. Also I recently bought a motor for the 1689e shell I have. So expect more on this later.

I hope you are enjoying the fumes.

It's looking good!:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Hey tj (small T)

For the newer guys who don't know and the older senile guys who forget.

When you show something like your bubble bath tell them what you gave it a bath in, please.
Some might be too bashful ask.

What was the bubble bath? 
Sodium Hydroxide / Caustic acid right?
If I remember right. 


The Elvis Express by tj (small t)


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I assumed it wasn't his wife's bubble bath, I'm guessing some sort of stripper.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I assumed it wasn't his wife's bubble bath, I'm guessing some sort of stripper.


I know what it was unless he used something different this time.
I was thinking of the new guys. ( And the old ones who forgot.)

I hope his wife doesn't find out he had a stripper in the house!:laugh:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man said:


> TJ, I checked around this post and noticed one engine has a nose job at the light. I will be needing a front piece so I reviewed this thread.


T-Man,

IMPORTANT ... The headlamp nose piece shown on my as-found 259 loco in the photos cited above (per Post #40) is NOT original to the loco. It was some crude, simple-cylinder, after-the-fact retrofit.

The original 259 headlamp piece looked like that shown on the photo below. It's the same physical fitting that's used on the 1681 locos, too. You can buy the part from Jeff Kane.

For clarification, please note that the near-clone 258 has a different headlamp fitting ... a much smaller, simple bezel ring.

Cheers,

TJ


Lionel 259 with its headlamp fitting, shown here painted copper...


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> What was the bubble bath?


Good point, Ed!!!

Elvis took a bath (two, actually) in Easy Off Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner.

For any new guys, it acts as a great paint stripper. Spray it on in a cheap tin foil lasagna pan lined with extra tin foil. The Easy Off will actually eat through the lasagna pan, so I usually have a 2nd pan directly underneath. Work outdoors, if possible. Wear heavy-duty rubber gloves when working with the stuff. Spray on the parts liberally, cover up the tray with more tin foil, and let it sit for several hours. Thereafter (wearing the gloves!), rinse off the parts in a utility sink while rubbing them down with a ScotchBrite pad. Dry the parts thoroughly, and repeat the process a second time, if needed.

The end result is what you saw in the bare-metal photo above ... paint gone, but likely "spider web" veins of surface rust throughout. The next step is to go over all of the surfaces with a Dremel stainless steel brush to buff out the rust and polish things up. Details to come.

Thanks to the many guys on the forum (T-Man, etc.) who taught me the Easy Off trick a while back.

Cheers,

TJ


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> Good point, Ed!!!
> 
> Elvis took a bath (two, actually) in Easy Off Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's a handy dandy tip to know - don't think I saw this in the tips sticky.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Another tip for the easy-off is to use a glass pan, no need for the tinfoil, and it won't do any damage to the pan.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Me: "Hey, honey ... do you mind if I borrow that glass baking pan of yours?"

Wife: "Uhhh ... sure ... what do you need it for?"

Dohh!!! ... < insert fireworks sounds here >


TJ


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## novice (Feb 2, 2011)

tjcruiser said:


> Me: "Hey, honey ... do you mind if I borrow that glass baking pan of yours?"
> 
> Wife: "Uhhh ... sure ... what do you need it for?"
> 
> ...


LMAO - I can picture this easily


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That'a what yardsales are for. I pay a dime for a rusty pan. 50 cents if I like it!! I am currently using one that is coated and is holding up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can pick up a pyrex backing pan for a few bucks new, probably cheaper at a yard sale. The cleanup is "rinse with water".


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*"Elvis" Checks Into Rehab ...*

Elvis has checked into rehab, hoping to get clean ...

So far, it looks like he's keeping his nose out of the gutter ...


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

It looks great!. I gave up on cleaning them that good!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks!

Stainless steel Dremel wire brush. (A couple of them, actually.) Get's the surface gunk all off fairly easily. Trickies part is getting the round brush into inside corners and crevices.

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Boiler Front Bezel Removal*

Quick project update ...

The bezel ring on the boiler front has a rim on the inside of the boiler front that's flared out around its full circumference to hold the ring in place. I debated whether I should simply tape off the bezel ring during repaint work, or whether I should try to remove it for a proper "virgin" repaint job. Well, I've opted for the latter. But how to best remove the ring without damaging it too much ???

After some head scratching, I decided to cut 4 small slits into the flared back section of the bezel ring, treating it as if it were a clock face: slits at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, 9:00. I used a very thin Dremel abrasive disc to cut the slits. I was careful not to cut too deep ... you can not see the slits when viewing the bezel from the front. However, the 4 slits provide just enough "relief" to the flared section of the bezel that I was able to bend the (now separate) 4 regions of the flare inwards slightly ... just enough to allow me to pop the bezel out from the boiler front. Happily, the front of the bezel looks exactly as it originally did. After the repaint, I'll pop the bezel back in, and bend the 4 flare "tabs" back into position, locking the bezel back in place.

Weather outlook is good for tomorrow. I'm primed to prime!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

One more easy off oven cleaner tip, I think,


Don't use on aluminum cars.....am I correct?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Good question. I don't know the answer to that. I've only used Easy Off on steel "tinplate" trains, and metal (non-aluminum) cast loco shells. 

If anyone knows, please chime in ... could save me a big "wooops" at some point!

Thanks, Ed.

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*"I'm All Shook Up ..."*

Our Elvis look-a-like is finally out of rehab. He's still trying to put the pieces of his life back together, but he's starting to belt out a few of the old tunes, once again ...

*Ahh well I bless my soul
What's wrong with me?
I'm itching like a man on a fuzzy tree
My friends say I'm actin' wild as a bug
I'm in love
I'm all shook up
Mm mm oh, oh, yeah, yeah!

My hands are shaky and my knees are weak
I can't seem to stand on my own two feet
Who do you thank when you have such luck?
I'm in love
I'm all shook up
Mm mm oh, oh, yeah, yeah!*

(Krylon grey primer ... getting ready for paint work ...)

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Paparazzi Photos: Elvis Dries Out ...*

TMZ had one of their paparazzi photographers snap this shot of our Elvis clone drying out after his rehab stint. He's seen here sitting under a street lamp, still looking a little shaken up, as he begins to put on one of his infamous blue sequined outfits ...

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Another Paparazzi Pic ...*

TMZ paparazzi snapped this latest pic of our Elvis clone in his dressing room, trying on his new outfit ...


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

*Youzer!* That's what I call blue!  I think it's going to look great all together.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I like!:thumbsup:


Why didn't you pop the bell off to paint it?
Doesn't it pop right up? Tap it from the inside. 

TO LATE NOW.

Looks great, maybe I will paint the 2065 the same colors.
Though it will have to be taped to do it as it is not pieced like yours.


Sweet!:thumbsup:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Good question. I don't know the answer to that. I've only used Easy Off on steel "tinplate" trains, and metal (non-aluminum) cast loco shells.
> 
> If anyone knows, please chime in ... could save me a big "wooops" at some point!
> 
> ...


Just like the aluminum pan I think it would melt after a while.

Maybe if you did not let it sit too long, I would experiment first on some scrap. 

I know for a shiny passenger aluminum car, it would most likely turn it white.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I saw somewhere on what paint and colors you used but can't find reference to it anywhere.

How long do you give the bubble bath for?

Cast be a longer bath do you think?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

The bell is peened over from the inside. It's easy to tape off during the prime/paint, so I simply left it on. Ditto for the pull bar (lingo?) on the rear of the loco.

Paint is Krylon gloss ... Global Blue for the boiler top; Regal Blue for the bottom frame. (I had mentioned that in the "Blue Comet Colors" thread, but good to have it here, too. Thanks for the reminder.)

Easy Off bubble bath is typically a few hours. Rinse. Dry. Repeat.

Good tips on the aluminum ... I've never tried aluminum paint stripping. I'll keep your tips in mind.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> The bell is peened over from the inside. It's easy to tape off during the prime/paint, so I simply left it on. Ditto for the pull bar (lingo?) on the rear of the loco.
> 
> ...


That is why I couldn't find it here. I thought you took it out.

OK Tanks


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The colors came out great. You can call it the Meteorite!(Little Comet).


I would assembled the color section first before final painting. Those tabs! UGH! on fresh paint!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

T-Man,

Thanks.

Yeah ... paint doesn't stay on the tabs so well when you're bending them back into place. I spray a few drops of the Krylon paint into a Dixie cup, and then use a toothpick to "brush" on some touch-up paint to the tabs, once they're bent into proper position. It doesn't take much paint ... really just a "toothpick drop" to sort-of distribute itself around the affected area. Sometimes I'll add a 2nd drop a day later.

Fortunately, most of the tabs are on the hidden inside of the shell/frame.

Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Here's what MTH thinks the Blue Comet looks like.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Our Elvis Clone Is Back On Stage ...*



tjcruiser said:


> We've all seen them before ...
> 
> During those times (you'd be embarrased to admit) when your flipping around the TV late at night watching TMZ or the TV-Guide Channel. You'll come across one of those Celebrity Look-Alike features where some average Joe or Jane glimmers in their fleeting 15 minutes of fame. Pouty lips and flowing brown hair, and an Octomom thinks she's Angelina Jolie. Shaky legs and some sequins, and bingo ... it's an Elvis clone. Throw in a blond wig, a white dress and a blowing subway vent, and just about anyone can pass for Marilyn Monroe. White glove and a little moonwalk shuffle, and ... well ... you get the idea.
> 
> ...


Elvis ... is ... BACK!!!

*Blue moon,
You saw me standing alone,
Without a dream in my heart,
Without a love of my own.

Blue moon,
You knew just what I was there for.
You heard me saying a prayer for
Someone I really could care for.

Without a love of my own.

Then suddenly there appeared before me
the only one my arms would ever know.
I heard someone whisper "Please adore me.", 
and when I looked, the moon had turned to gold.

Blue moon,
You saw me standing alone,
Without a dream in my heart,
Without a love of my own.

Blue moon...
Without a love of my own.*

'Nuff said ...

TJ

~~~

Elvis ... BEFORE rehab ...










Elvis ... AFTER rehab ... all cleaned up, and ready to rock ...


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks great TJ, how does it run? Are you going to put cab numbers on it? Looks brand new!

BTW, what did you spill on it?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

That's just a light reflection. Paint is good. See ...










So, ignore John's armchair comment.  Would I allow a "spill" on one of my beloved tinplates?!?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Another success story! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## joe7034 (Feb 3, 2011)

Great job, I'm going to try one for myself, been searching ebay for just the right one! I'll post some pictures when I finally find one

joe


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, guys! I really appreciate the nice comments!

Per my 258, I should note a couple of misc things ...

1. The "sandpipes" that run from the front dome down to the frame were not original. Lionel did not put them on 258's, though they did put them on 259's. That said, the 258 and the 259 share essentially the same loco shells, so the holes for the sandpipes already existed ont he 258 shell. With that, I opted to make a pair of sandpipes using 14-gauge copper wire. An easy add-on.

2. The 259's have a round Lionel "L" emblem on the sides of the cab. Repro ones are available. The next time I order some parts from Jeff Kane, I'll get a pair of these "L" emblems, and add them to the cab of this 258. It'll be a nice touch, I think. (John, that answers your question above ... no cab number tags planned ... only the "258" on the boiler front.)

And ...

I have to give a "Thank You!!!" shout out to T-Man for inspiring me with this quasi Blue Comet color theme. He did a blue 259 restoration job. I loved the way it looked, and incorporated it into this 258. I guess I owe T-Man a royalty check!!!

Cheers,

TJ


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

me Likey! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

tjcruiser said:


> That's just a light reflection. Paint is good. See ...
> 
> So, ignore John's armchair comment.  Would I allow a "spill" on one of my beloved tinplates?!?


I kinda' figured it wasn't a spill.


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

that is jsut about as perfect to the orignal Lionel Blue comet round and standard tender versions that you could have gotten considering the paint used back then and the differences in production. Very well done. can't wait for the next succes story.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks, GC!!!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Thanks, GC!!!



It looks great.:thumbsup:

Did you think about painting the roof dark blue?

You got to get some markings on it too.:thumbsup:


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## Artieiii (Apr 25, 2011)

big ed said:


> It looks great.:thumbsup:
> 
> Did you think about painting the roof dark blue?
> 
> You got to get some markings on it too.:thumbsup:


I second the dark blue on the roof idea :thumbsup:
If I find one of these at a garage sale I would like to do one in this type of color scheme as well....but nobody is coming near my prewar lionel's with paint stripper!


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Although Lionel never did these 258's in the blue color scheme, I wanted to stay somewhat in line with how they did paint their tinplate parts. With the exception of lithographed cars, each piece of "normal" tinplate was painted one solid color. Accordingly, I wanted to leave the cab roof / cab sides component as one color.

That's just my thinking, though ... if anyone else wants to try a dark roof on their, I'd love to see it.

Ed, I plan to add some Lionel "circle-L" emblems to the side of the cabs (below the windows), similar to those on the 259's. I need to order repro emblems from Jeff Kane. The emblems are dark blue and bright red ... I think the colors of the L will add a nice touch. (The loco still has its "258" tag on the boiler front.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Although Lionel never did these 258's in the blue color scheme, I wanted to stay somewhat in line with how they did paint their tinplate parts. With the exception of lithographed cars, each piece of "normal" tinplate was painted one solid color. Accordingly, I wanted to leave the cab roof / cab sides component as one color.
> 
> That's just my thinking, though ... if anyone else wants to try a dark roof on their, I'd love to see it.
> 
> ...



I just asked if you thought about doing it.

I think your right about the L, it will look complete then huh?


Looks good.:thumbsup: You the man....the TIN MAN.:thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Elvis Get Married ...*

Elvis falls in love with Priscilla all over again ...

*Love me tender, 
love me sweet, 
never let me go. 
You have made my life complete,
and I love you so.

Love me tender, 
love me true, 
all my dreams fulfill.
For my darlin' I love you,
and I always will.

Love me tender, 
love me long,
take me to your heart.
For it's there that I belong,
and we'll never part.

Love me tender, 
love me true, 
all my dreams fulfill.
For my darlin' I love you,
and I always will.

Love me tender, 
love me dear,
tell me you are mine.
I'll be yours through all the years,
till the end of time.

Love me tender, 
love me true, 
all my dreams fulfill.
For my darlin' I love you,
and I always will.*


Fans can read more about the ever tender Priscilla here ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7595

May they live happily ever after ...

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Great transformation, that came out really cool! I think I'll send you one of my old clunkers to restore.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Great job on ther pair! My regards to the King and the Lady.:thumbsup:


Ebay is catching on. A bunch of shells and parts for 259's are at auction. One has the double gear drive though you have to search under "engine" to find it.
Two incomplete shells dropped two bucks as a buy it now.

Most of them don't have a front boiler part, so there are no really good deals for me.I am almost ready to order parts just to move on to other models.hwell:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It looks great Tin Man.:thumbsup:


Little wheels on the engine need a little more cleaning? (darkening?)


Study the picture....think how it would have looked with a dark blue roof.
Or maybe just the gutters dark blue? 
I know your going to say that you like it as is, just look though.


Now on to the passenger cars a train of at least 6 would be nice.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks for the nice comments, guys ... much appreciated!

John -- you can send me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses ... but they'll have to wait in the queue behind all of my other hopefull projects!

T-Man -- I'm still keeping my eyes out for a cheap 259 boiler front source for you. Hope you find something.

Ed -- I cheated on the drive wheels ... black Sharpie on the spokes. I've been having a b*tch of a time figuring out how to clean the little leading/trailing spoked wheels. Dremel brush, alcohol, acetone, etc. Nothing easily gets the gunk out, and nothing easily gets into the tiny gaps between the spokes. I tried to re-GunBlue what was there, but it's not great. The flash on the photo highlights the problem more than it looks in real life ... it's not quite that bad ... but you pegged me on one of the things I'm not fully happy with. Busted!

Ohh ... and I'll redo the roof the same time I repaint my tanker tank! 

Thanks, guys!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Is the tender the same color as the engine?

I though the wheels might look the way because of the flash too.

Looks Great:thumbsup:.........6 passenger cars now?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tender is exact same colors as the engine ... Krylon Global Blue for the top, Krylon Regal Blue for the frame. Both gloss.

Passenger cars on my my "someday" list for sure. However, in the meantime ...

1. I have 5 more 1681 locos to restore. Motors fixed. Haven't started on shells yet.

2. I just ebay bought another 1688 junker ... $15 ... who could pass up a deal like that?

3. And I ebay bought a tiny prewar 1506L loco shell (no motor) ... somewhat similar to a 1681, but even smaller. I'm not sure if I can kludge a Lionel Jr. motor to fit. And, I have no boiler front for it. 

Yup ... me and T-man ... cruisin' the seedy back alleys at night, looking for a little boiler front action. 


TJ


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I am sure they are out there for 25 bucks apiece.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

*Elvis adds some jewelry ...*

Our Elvis-clone 258 loco is all jazzed up with some new Lionel "Circle L" jewelry on the side of his cab ...

(Stick on repros from Jeff Kane at the Train Tender.)










Cheers,

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Took the easy way, they look good.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Our Elvis-clone 258 loco is all jazzed up with some new Lionel "Circle L" jewelry on the side of his cab ...
> 
> (Stick on repros from Jeff Kane at the Train Tender.)
> 
> ...



I thought you said you did not know where to get Lionel stickers?
Those are peel and apply? or decals?
How big is the actual size of it?

Is the tanker done yet?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

John,

"... the easy way ..."

The similar-shell 259 loco cabs have three slots for the tabs of the original Lionel "circle-L" emblems. However, the 258 locos (of which this is one) never had the emblems, nor the slots.

And, my understanding is that any crisp / repro emblems that one can find are of the stick-on type.

But since my 258 had no slots to begin with, I'm in good shape!

Cheers,

TJ


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed,

Perhaps I misunderstood you earlier. Those are not what I would call "stickers". Rather, they are a thin metal disc with the L logo pressed and painted into its face. The disc has a sticky adhesive on its back, but the disc itself is no pliable or bendable like a conventional "sticker".

The diameter to the outside of the disc is about 1/2".

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Ed,
> 
> Perhaps I misunderstood you earlier. Those are not what I would call "stickers". Rather, they are a thin metal disc with the L logo pressed and painted into its face. The disc has a sticky adhesive on its back, but the disc itself is no pliable or bendable like a conventional "sticker".
> 
> ...



That sounds better then stickers.
What does he get for them?
Do you have a part number?

I was bidding on a lot of old tabbed L's on e bay the other day.
The other bidders bid like they were made out of gold.:laugh:

!/2" might be too big for the 2065 cab but might work on the tender.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Part # 259-LN from Jeff Kane ... $1.75 each ... he cites diameter at 0.563" .

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Part # 259-LN from Jeff Kane ... $1.75 each ... he cites diameter at 0.563" .
> 
> TJ



Thanks TJ, 
That makes it a lot easier.
I am on his site now, do we get a discount for mentioning The famous TJ Tin Mans name?

What do you think of them?

Maybe I can get a better price, if I get them in bulk?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Part # 259-LN from Jeff Kane ... $1.75 each ... he cites diameter at 0.563" .
> 
> TJ



I found all the parts I need, but could not find a listing for 259-LN? (L logos)
What do you do? send a order form and a check?
Will he take pay pal do you know?
Are you sure that number is right for the stick on logo L?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

big ed said:


> I found all the parts I need, but could not find a listing for 259-LN? (L logos)
> What do you do? send a order form and a check?
> Will he take pay pal do you know?
> Are you sure that number is right for the stick on logo L?


Jeff doesn't do PayPal, typically you send him a check. After a few orders, he'll ship and include a bill, very convenient. I've found him very accommodating, prices are good, shipping is low, and he normally ships very quickly. :thumbsup:


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes, Ed ... 259-LN is the right part number for Jeff's circle-L logos.

I'm usually ordering a dozen or more parts from Jeff at a time ... I call him on the phone, we go through the list, he emails me a confirmation of the parts/order, and it's an easy go from there.

Cheers,

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Yes, Ed ... 259-LN is the right part number for Jeff's circle-L logos.
> 
> I'm usually ordering a dozen or more parts from Jeff at a time ... I call him on the phone, we go through the list, he emails me a confirmation of the parts/order, and it's an easy go from there.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I sent him an e mail with a couple of questions.


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