# Computer Controlled layout



## frosty (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm starting out and I haven't found any good threads so far that would help somebody starting out. I'm starting this thread to list my research to share with others and also hopefully anybody that has info to share can post here as well.

My basic setup list I'm going with to get started. I selected Digitrax as it seems to be one of the most common brands out there and I see it more than the other brands. It seems to have products that will allow me to build so I'm just going with it.
I'm going to list the prices I've found so others don't have to dig everything up.

Plus if anybody knows of a better deal, please post. (Right now I've priced everything through ModelTrainStuff They seem to be a brick and mortar in Md with good online pricing. 

Digitrax
Starting out
*SCFXD8 Starter Kit *- $547.99 This contains the command controller and a duplex radio throttle.

*PS 2012* - $143.99 Power supply for the DSC200 command controller.
*PR3* - $67.99 Computer Interface - Allows a computer to interface with the system via a USB port.

*BDL168* $119.99 - Occupancy Detector for 16 sections. This is if you need to know if sections of your track are occupied. (Needs a PS14 power supply.)

*DS64* $47.99 - Allows you to operate 4 turnouts

*RX4* $39.99- I think this is an optional Transponder add on to the BDL168. Not purchasing this to start.

*RD2* $7.59 - Remote Sensing Dioade for BDL 16. My understanding this will allow you to detect occupancy remotely when used with the BDL 168 without having to run wires to the remote sections. (Still researching this and whether I'll get them.)

*LocoNet Wiring (Digitrax)*
The wiring for LocoNet from my understanding is telephone wire. 
Flat 6 Telephone wire or Cat 3 3 pair wire can be used. You can buy bulk at a Home Depot or Lowes. Or order from a place like Amazon.

You'll need RJ 12 or RJ 11 6P6C connectors
Then you'll want a good Crimp Tool Most tools crimp both RJ 45 & RJ 11. I purchase this through Amazon or the local hardware store.

I also suggest you get a cable tester and test all the cables you make to save you from pulling your hair out if you're going to do many.

As far as I know if you run the colors pin to pin you should be good. (Somebody correct me if this is wrong.)

The questions I still have.

*Blocking* - I think I understand the concept but I'm not sure the best way of going about doing it and how to tie it into the system.

*Consisting* - I still need to learn about this.

*Shorting *- I understand a short but still need to understand how to reliably prevent this in a complex layout.

*Reverse Loop* - My understanding this is when you are running track that ties back into existing track but will result in the polarities being reversed. Again, I see Auto Reverse circuits available so I'm not sure what's the most effective way to go about this.

*Remote controlled Turnouts* - I still am looking for options on mechanism that are reliable and the most cost effective. So far I've looked at the Tortoise Slo-Mo units. I would appreciate input anybody has.

*Computer software* - I'm looking into this. Click here for a wiki link on the different brands.

*Computer setup* - It doesn't look to require much of a computer to run a layout the size I'm going with. 13 x 10. I've got a Dell with a Q9550 proc. I'm going to look into touch screen monitors and mounts with a slide keyboard.

I'll try to update things as I go along. Again if anybody has anything to add to the above items, please do so and if it's helpful, I'll update this part of the thread for others to use as a references.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Welcome to MTF.

I have had the pleasure of touring some local layouts. The computer controlled ones were all digitrax. I would suggest finding a local club.It is high tech and would appreciate any posting you can do.
Good Luck!

A glimpse to your future.











Hopefully someone in the membership can help.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

This is something i am interested in myself i have a *NCE Power Cab* and *NCE USB* and i am using *JMRI*(its freeware and dose a good job for now may switch to RR & Co later) Right now and have one loop set up with 4 blocks. From what i have been told i think my next step is to get that BD168 that you have. BTW where did you find it for that price? (all i can find is $140+)


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## frosty (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks T-Man. I've worked in IT and software development most of my professional career. I've just got to get a better understanding of the electrical aspect of things.

Britblad, I don't have any of this stuff just yet. But they are on a list I'm putting together. I'll probably just start out with the StarterKit and then whatever I need for occupancy detection & Turnout automation.

I'm going to start with a small layout and just get the hang of everything and go from there. The goal is not to buy component and realize I should of gotten something else to start with.

BritBlad, the best pricing I've found so far is modeltrainstuff.com out of MD. I like their website as well as it's easy to find things. They also have a phone. I've called them but I haven't purchased anything from them yet.

P.S. I'm in Charlotte. Anybody know of a local train club around here to check out?


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

thanks *frosty* That will get me going for that piece. I am staring out with a small layout my self about 8 x 10 square with room in the middle. i want to expand from the main 24" loop to a 20 and a 22 having 3 mains and a yard down the road and like you i don't want to buy anything i don't need either i did find out i need another 6 wire cable to run between the USB and the faceplate for the power cab and i will probably need another cord the BD168 thinking it might be a good idea to buy a roll of the cable and a gun to make em!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

You'll also need 1 or more PM42's to manage power, reverse loops and overload protection.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

frosty said:


> My basic setup list I'm going with to get started. I selected Digitrax as it seems to be one of the most common brands out there and I see it more than the other brands. It seems to have products that will allow me to build so I'm just going with it.
> 
> 
> out here i would say NCE has better market penetration. out of three clubs i've been to only one uses Digitrax
> ...



my input in blue. 
good luck and post progress


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## JohnAP (May 4, 2011)

Frosty,

That's quite an ambitious list you've got going there. Plenty of juice to do anything you want. I have tortoise switch machines, but there are other makers available. You will also need cables to connect all your LocoNet devices together. I have a 1000' roll of cable, and I will do custom length cables (with or without connectors) for anybody that needs them. 6.5 cents a foot for the cable, 30 cents for connectors so a 10' cable with connectors made up and tested would cost $1 plus shipping. Keep us posted on your progress and I'll be keeping an eye out!


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## frosty (Feb 27, 2012)

John,

Please post the type of wire. I was thinking the wire was just Cat 5 with RJ 45 connectors. But I haven't even looked into that. I was assumming the wire would come with the starter kit.

If you have specifics, type of wire, type of connectors, link to the pin out, if there is a special crimping tool etc, please post or send me the info and I'll update the my thread.

Again, any info you post, please post specifics. When I get useful, detailed info I'm going to edit the first thread with the info so users won't have to go through the whole thread to dig out info.

Thanks.


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## JohnAP (May 4, 2011)

Frosty,

The cable is flat, 6 conductor telephone cable with RJ11 6p6c plugs. Here is a link from DigiTrax on how to make them:

http://kb.digitrax.com/index.php?a=365


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## frosty (Feb 27, 2012)

John,

So could you just use Cat 3 or Cat 5 wiring? "Cat 5 is 8 wires" Cat 3 is 3 pair, 24 Gauge wire and a box of 500 ft at Lowe's is $60.73. That should do the trick, correct?


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## JohnAP (May 4, 2011)

Frosty,

People have used both. If you can keep the colors straight. I got my 1000 ft roll of telephone cable for $50.94 + $13.08 shipping. RJ11 or RJ12 connectors can be used, but be sure to get 6P6C RJ11s.


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## frosty (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks, I'm updating the main thread to reflect what you've added.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

frosty, 
You will find out that you only have 24 hours to update or alter a post after that it's locked.


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## frosty (Feb 27, 2012)

arrgg, that's not ideal. We'll I'm keeping this in OneNote and may translate it over to Word if it gets long enough to warrant a table of contents. I'm just start another post if I have to and maybe asked this one to get deleted when we have what we need.

I definitely want something where somebody doesn't have to go through 5+ pages of threads to find what they are looking for.


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## manchesterjim (Dec 30, 2011)

frosty said:


> John,
> 
> So could you just use Cat 3 or Cat 5 wiring? "Cat 5 is 8 wires" Cat 3 is 3 pair, 24 Gauge wire and a box of 500 ft at Lowe's is $60.73. That should do the trick, correct?


Cat 3 will "work" but twisted pair causes one to have to pay a little more attention while assembling the connectors.

A lot of folks (me included) us the flat 6-conductor phone cable. Around here its referred to as silver-satin because of the jacket color. It strips easy and since the wires aren't twisted, you can usually assemble a connector in just a couple of seconds.

Again, not critical....use what you are comfortable with.


As for the rest of your equipment list, Tankist is correct in saying that the 8amp system is BIG for most any home layout. I have a pretty aggressive 25x12 HO layout and the 5amp system works just fine. The caveat here is that I make sure I have a "buss" system under the table and attach feeder wires from the track at regular intervals. There's no absolute rule on how far apart the feeders should be, but most folks will tell you that you should put feeders on each 3' section of flex track. Its a good idea to add feeders to your turnouts as well.  This technique is a little cumbersome, but it beats soldering track joiners at every section.

As for PM42s, I have 1 on my layout now and will be adding another soon. Here's how it works:

Section 1 - Eastbound mainline
Section 2 - Westbound mainline
Section 3 - All yard track in the yard modules
Section 4 - Shinohara double crossover between the mains

The second PM42 will have:

Section 5 (1) - Passenger station sidings on that module
Section 6 (2) - Industrial section power
Section 7 (3) - Reversing loop (A BIG one to be added at the end of the build)
Section 8 (4) - Turntable for the yard module

I would HIGHLY recommend investing $60 in a track layout/design program called anyrail! There are others out there....some free, but this one is the most intuitive of the bunch. You'll be able to color code track sections and layers, which will help with the electrical design.

Someone already said it, but JMRI is a very good program for most of what you want to accomplish and doesn't require a heavy duty machine to run it. In fact, until it just up and died, I was using a 10year old HP machine with Windows XP Pro with no issues.

Good luck with your venture...and feel free to post your questions here....!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jim


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## sunkenmel (Mar 1, 2012)

I am using CVP Products Command Control System. You can get a basic system for $279 or extended for $429 (plugin throttles) or wireless for $529. There web site is http://www.cvpusa.com/easydcc_system.php. I am running the wireless system, with 6 T9000E and 2 T5000E throttles. I have 2 layouts one in HO and the other in HOn3. I run 4 or 5 trains at the same time on each layout. Which have double and triple header loco consists (all are steam). I have no problem with power. All my loco decoders are SoundTraxx (http://www.soundtraxx.com/). I also run JMRI connected to the command station. I have not added turnout control yet, but that will be in the future.

Ken
*Yaphank Valley R.R.*


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

interesting. that is the first time i see this product. off to their website to research...


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## cv_acr (Oct 28, 2011)

frosty, check out http://cti-electronics.com/ for one possible computer control solution.

We haven't got much hardware installed yet, but my club is going with this for our CTC signalling system. I've been doing some of the signal logic programming already. They have an interesting little programming langauge for writing all the control logic. If you have an IT/programming background it should be pretty straightforward. It just takes some study of what real systems do to know what signals to display and how to handle and control different situations.

The CTI system can work with DC or DCC layouts and can even automatically control trains.

JMRI was mentioned by someone else and is also a popular solution for signal control that also works with various DCC systems.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

My research into DCC is always ongoing and never compleate but I do know a fair amount about DCC technology.

CVP EZ DCC is that it has not been updated for quite a while and is running on 5 to 10 year old standards and technology.

CTI is also running on 5 to 10 year old technology, look at the PC interface, what you guys have not discovered USB?

Decoder transponding and block and unit detection has come along way from the old magnetic read switches and optical detection of the good old days!


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## gc53dfgc (Apr 13, 2010)

Hey Anton. So say I am building a new layout and want to be able to pre-program in routes, locomotive speeds and directions as well as auto switching of the turnouts for the layout. Would the bronze version of Train Controller do what I need? I am guessing that this system still requires me to own an actual controller like Digitrax or NCE. How exactly does the system interface with the computer? just through regular USB or does it need a special dongle? I want to use the ESU DCC system if that is at all possible but am not sure how I could get block detection/blocks as well as a prototypical signalling system. Is it possible to use Digitrax components designed for this and use them with ESU? I have done a lot of this research already but am finding it hard to know for sure if it would all work like I want.

Much help appreciated.


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

Train Controller is the software part of it. yes you do need a full DCC system (either NCE or digitrax) and a USB interface. i'm not quite sure about limitations of Bronze vs Silver , but the price premium is just to great - whatever it is i would be learning to live without it (if i was really set to go train controller way). they do offer a free demo so take a look.
yes it is possible to mix components but depending on what you get you might need several interfaces , one for each system. so plan i all out first, will save you money on unneeded modules.

trying traincontroller out might also give you an idea of what hardware you might need for your setup.
good luck.


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## D&J Railroad (Oct 4, 2013)

I have a large basement layout, 55' X 35' and it is operated with 1 Digitrax DCS100 and two booster DB150s. I wanted to have a signal system on the layout and ventured into the JMRI software to try to accomplish this. After wrestling with it for several months, I wasn't getting anywhere and realized I was way over my head with the software. I'm not a programmer so that was my first handicap. I looked into the TrainController software and could see that it was a bit more user friendly with pull down menus but it still lacked the examples that would have been very useful to get started. I bought the Bronze application first and started working on setting my layout up for block detection. This meant that every section of track that I wanted to have independant block detection on had to be isolated and wired into the BDL168 board. I added the PM42 into the system for security. Once the block detection was established I added the SE8C board for the signals. This is where I realized I needed the Train Controller Silver package which was $439. Since this layout is my life ambition I decided to go with it. It still lacked example application in the instructions, but by posting my problems on another model railroad forum, I found someone who was using the same software and hardware who could help me get going. after several weeks of posting back and forth and finally a phone call to him, I had my first signal operating properly. I expanded off of that application and now I have more than a dozen block and turnout signal heads working in the 3rd power district on the layout. I have two more power districts to go. I'm using the BLMA signal heads which are very detailed signal systems. A little expensive, but once again, this layout is my life ambition so I'm not going cheap on it. 
The layout is 6.5 scale miles of double track mainline. I have two industries built into it so far; a coal facility that holds over 100 hoppers and an intermodal facility that is more than 75' from end to end.


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

Using NCE (as opposed to Digitrax) with Train Controller (TC) has a significant shortcoming. 

If want to use the NCE throttles (which are quite nice) TC will be unaware of what you are doing as the NCE system does not report to TC that state of the NCE system.

This is not a limitation that is unique to NCE.

Other systems (like Digitrax) DO report to TC the state of the system so TC can know exactly what you may be doing with the handheld throttles.

If you have no interest in using the system handheld throttles but plan on doing all control via TC then this issue is of little consequence.

Just FYI.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*HO layouts with computer interface, Comand& Control*

bravo D&J , you might want to confer with Jerry H. here at the forum and on u-tube.
I'm also interested in: Java Model Railroad interface. Some software has free down loads: however; I'm not sure on their reliability of being free of malware though. Programing may be rather tedious also. And, I believe the hardware Digitrax offers is the way to go. Then again, I'm learning also, 
Regards,
tr1
P.S. Keep us informed :thumbsup:


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## fcwilt (Sep 27, 2013)

TR1:

If you are interested in this sort of computer control check out http://www.rr-cirkits.com/

The Tower Controller 64 line. This is a complete system for connecting to LocoNet that can provide all the various types of hardware (sensors, turnout control, signal control, etc) needed for computer control or just control via any LocoNet compatible system.

It is VERY well designed, easy to install and configure and extremely versatile.

Highly Recommended.


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

*computer control interest's*

fcwilt, thanks for your input and link, greatly appreciated
regards,
tr1


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