# Please evaluate my layout



## jlc41

Hi folks, I would like an evaluation of this layout. I am running DC, and using Peco insufrog turnouts. What do I need to be mindful of. After reading the layout posts am a little nervous. 

View attachment img120.pdf


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## Big Ed

You are going to be asked what scale...HO right?
Maybe add the dimensions?

I think it looks good but what do I know.:smokin:

One thing I would change is the switch/turnout on the inside loop to the sidings.
I would put it back more by the curves, that way you can have longer sidings.
If you can't move it I would add more track to make the sidings longer.

But that is me....I would want a larger yard for them.

What are your plans for the sidings?


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## DonR

Nice layout with plenty of activity built in.

I don't see anything to worry about. You can't do better
than the Peco Insulfrog turnouts. There is one thing
to be aware of. They are power routing, so any spur or
yard dead end track will lose power when the turnout
points are set against it. You can keep the power on by
running drops to your buss from the two frog rails.

Your drawing shows sectional track. I would suggest
that flex track will be easier to install.

Will you be running two trains at the same time?

If so you would want insulated joiners where the two ovals
are connected by the 4 crossover turnouts. Then you would
need double pole double throw switches to control the power
to each oval and from two power packs.

Don


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## MtRR75

A lot of open space inside the left end of the layout. What do you plan to do with it? A town? Country scenery? Industries? If industries, you might want to add a spur from the bottom-center of the inside track to the industries -- so that you can deliver freight to them.


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## jlc41

Thank you all so much for the feed back, I knew I could count on you folks. Layout is 4x8, HO, DC. I used the Atlas track planer to get this idea. I started with Bachmann ez track because that's what came with the 2 sets of trains that I bought for my grand kids. (me being one of them) I have since switch to flex. Yes, I would like to run 2 trains at the same time. The yard has an engine house next to the inside track on the switch side as far right as I can get it. I also have the Glacier gravel kit on that side more to the bottom side of the oval. I want to use the yard to park rolling stock and have a sand and water tower to service the locos. After looking at my layout I agree I have room for maybe another spur into that space between the engine house and the Gravel company. On the left side of the oval I plan a town. The layout has a lake / river that starts near the side with the switch tracks and continues down across the layout. I have 2 bridges that cross at the bottom side of the oval. As it turns out I have to order more flex and turnouts for that extra spur. Again thank you all advice and suggestions much appreciated. I will try to post some pics as I go. 
Joe


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## Train Kid

I like layouts like that because running trains run and round is fun. 

So, you done good IMO.


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## jlc41

Big Ed, I see what you mean by moving turnouts closer to the curve. I can do that. I also updated the layout plan to be closer to what I have. I show the added spur, the lake/river, the shape of the inner oval and where the town will go.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154913&stc=1&d=1457303156


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## HOMatt

I see that you spread out the crossover area from when I saw it. Are you still going with the elevation on the outside track?
Matt


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## MtRR75

jlc41 said:


> I also have the Glacier gravel kit on that side more to the bottom side of the oval. ..... On the left side of the oval I plan a town. The layout has a lake / river that starts near the side with the switch tracks and continues down across the layout. I have 2 bridges that cross at the bottom side of the oval..
> Joe


If you can find room for a quarry near the town, you could add a short spur there. Then you could shuttle hoppers of rock to the gravel company.


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## jlc41

Matt, yes on the elevation. However I reduced the height by half. 
MtRR75, that sounds like a great idea. I am planning on building a mount / tunnel on the town end of the layout.
Joe


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## CTValleyRR

I certainly wouldn't be nervous. About the only thing you can do that would be a really unrecoverable disaster is to put a track right to the edge of the layout and run a train off the edge onto the floor. Enjoy it. If you make a mistake, slap your forehead and move forward. We've all done it.

The only thing I would recommend further is that you look into DCC. This will greatly simplify the wiring and operation of two trains, especially on a small layout where you don't have a lot of room for blocks.

The other thing I notice is that your track is misaligned in the lower left. You'll want to fix that by changing the length of one of your short segments (another good reason to use flex track). DON'T fudge it to join up -- the resulting kink will be your worst nightmare. I do NOT know this from personal experience... no, Sir, I do not. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it).


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## jlc41

CTValleyRR, you correct about the misalignment, however that is the way the track planer lays it out pictorially. In actuality it lines up, and yes i am using flex track. I will have to think about DCC. Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
Joe


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## CTValleyRR

jlc41 said:


> In actuality it lines up...


Hopefully NOT because you fudged it somewhere!


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## MtRR75

CTValleyRR said:


> Hopefully NOT because you fudged it somewhere!


He said he was using flex track. That is probably why it lines up for him.


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## jlc41

CTValleyRR, no fudging, that's why I decided not to keep the mashup of EZ track and flex. I am going 100% flex. Once I get it together I'll post a pic.
Joe


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## CTValleyRR

MtRR75 said:


> He said he was using flex track. That is probably why it lines up for him.


No argument. One of the Boy Scouts who was working on his railroading merit badge with me had fudged his track, and he insisted that he hadn't, even though I could see the kink where he did it. A classic case of TCBW (Teenager's Can't Be Wrong -- a condition that exists only in the teenage mind).

It was only after we sat down and used AnyRail to put the pieces together virtually with no fudging that he realized he had an issue. Teenagers believe computers, not adults...


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## tr1

*possibilities for future erxpansion*

I like to add here, If I could?
Maybe you could put a passing siding on the parallel curves?
I think that would add a another dimension to continuous running operations.
Good luck with your empire.
Also, when/if.... you finally have the room/ or space. That layout there would make an excellent starting point to add on to(modularly speeking"L" shape). Good luck for/in the future
Regards,tr1


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## jlc41

Well folks I bit the bullet and ordered an NCE Power Cab. Now I have to get cracking and get my flex track which came today down and then on to the wiring and all the questions that am sure I will have about that.


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## HOMatt

Good for you!!! I'll have to come over and see it in action. If you need help with the track, give me a call.
matt


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## jlc41

Hey Matt, I'll let you know when I get things set up. If I run into problems with the trackage I'll be calling. Thanks.
Joe


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## jlc41

Okay, I finally got the flex track down and snapped some pics. I have not soldered all the joints and I have not cut and fit all the track yet. You will see where I have over laid the track in some places so you folks can see where am heading. Open to suggestions. Now I have to see where do I put the insulated joiners now that I will be running DCC, again open to suggestions. Also note, all the white styra foam marked with an X will be removed, they are the remnants of the EZ track that I Abandoned. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks Joe


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## HOMatt

I like that MUCH better then when I saw it!! Even the lower elevation fits the layout better.
Good work Joe!
Matt


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## jlc41

Thanks Matt. How are you coming along with yours?
Joe


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## jlc41

Okay guys, I would like your opinions on my town's buildings layout. Am thinking a park in the center of town. Maybe a church in the middle or offset. The area on the left in front of the train station and to the right of will be station parking. To the bottom will be a stone quarry. The truck is at the entrance of the quarry. Am thinking a service road (indicated by pieces of wood etc.) on the right side along the tracks. This road would be joined by the Main street from town continue over the river to the Gravel company, engine house and yard facilities. My town might need more buildings. Not sure what type or how many. That's where you guys come in. See attached pic's.






























Thanks in advance for your help.
Joe


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## jlc41

After sleeping on the layout plan, I exchanged locations with the upper left hand building next to the barber shop and the building on the lower right side. I think I should include a fire station on the left bottom near the spur. Also I would like to drop in a bait shop / pier on the back side of the left side buildings. Am going to need some more vehicles. I take some more pic's later today. Thanks again.
Joe


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## HOMatt

I like the idea of the park as the center square of a town. The Church off to the side would be my placement. Good idea of the Fire house and bait shop.


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## DonR

Looking good.

One suggestion. Try to locate your passenger station
on a straight section. On a curve, passenger cars
tend to over hang the track.

Don


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## CTValleyRR

I have two observations.

1) More isn't necessarily better. For my money, I would make what you have look good rather than trying to add even more structures.

2) Watch the width of your streets. Prototype streets (at least, those that don't predate cars) have 13' lanes, and sometimes 8' parking areas. A little compression is fine, but make them too narrow and it will look funny.

You can also look at Hokie's threads in My Layout and Layout Design areas. He was wrestling with similar issues.


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## Cycleops

Rather than a park wouldn't that area be the church grounds with graveyard? Make sure there's room for parking.


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## jlc41

Thanks DonR, CTV and Cycleops, good things to consider I knew I could count on you guys. 
Matt, am having a heck of a time trying to locate a fire house and bait shop. Walthers has a nice fire house but it won't be available till May. i'll keep looking, maybe someone will point me in the right direction. Well, back to work on the railroad. Btw, how are you doing with yours?
Joe


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## HOMatt

jlc41 said:


> Thanks Matt, having a heck of a time trying to locate a fire house and bait shop. Walthers has a nice fire house but it won't be available till May. i'll keep looking, maybe someone will point me in the right direction. Well, back to work on the railroad. Btw, how are you doing with yours?
> Joe


Job hunting has me too depressed to work on it. Plus I need to spend some money on it and more important things over ride that.


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## CTValleyRR

I don't really know what you're looking for, style or budget-wise. I also don't really have a feel for your modelling skills.

That said, Walthers has a number of nice models of firehouses in stock. The only one out of stock is the Life-Like, which wouldn't be among my first choices.

If your budget and modeling skills are up to it, look at Bollinger-Edgerly Scale Trains (www.besttrains.com). They are not sold thru Walthers. ! But have a number of beautiful craftsman kits which painstakingly recreate prototype buildings. Not cheap, but worth it. Their Agawam Firehouse and Bradley Wharf offerings are awesome.


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## jlc41

Matt, I fully understand priorities, good luck.
CTV, thanks for the link. They are very nice models, however budget wise not good. I double checked my main street width and it's set at 4 1/2 inches. The side street is set at 3 inches. Looks good with the cars on the layout.
Joe


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## jlc41

Okay, a little progress and some mishap's. Please comment and critique. I have lost to do.
see attached Pic's.
Thanks 
Joe


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## CTValleyRR

Are you planning to ballast the shoulders of your roadbed eventually?


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## ShaderMike

I took one look at the structure of the three-businesses in the middle of town and was strongly reminded of the Back to the Future 2 location of the Cafe 80s.
That's awesome.


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## jlc41

CTValley, yes but I have to widen the bed more at certain places, learning as I go. I am also going to reballast with fine gray instead of what I currently have. I don't care for how it turned out. 
Thanks ShaderMike.
Joe


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## CTValleyRR

Did you glue it down? If not, a shop vac will make short work of it.


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## jlc41

No I didn't glue it down. Being new at this I wasn't sure I would like the results. When I redo I'll post a pic.
Thanks 
Joe


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## Cycleops

If your idea is to cover that whole area then remove what is there then generously brush neat water soluble wood glue onto the area, apply the ballast, wait for it to dry overnight and then vacuum off the surplus. If you want neat edges use masking tape.

A finer ballast would be better visually. Maybe take it up the shoulders of the roadbed. Go very carefully near the point blades.


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## jlc41

Okay guy's, a little progress. New fire house, scratch built bridge over river, and Gazebo on town square. More ballasting and more grass. I also used colored paper to simulate streets and apron for the fire house. Much more to do. Comments and suggestions welcomed.
Joe


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## Gramps

The layout is coming along nicely. Maybe it's just the camera angle, but I would be concerned about that blue "value pack" box falling on to the layout.


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## jlc41

Thanks Gramps. You are correct the camera angle is the culprit, all's good.


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## CTValleyRR

I'm not sure what to think about the gazebo. It looks good, but it's really big. Is it a placeholder?


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## Lemonhawk

Looks like a band stand to me, which would make it the right size. You add a band to make it more obvious.


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## jlc41

CTValley, you are correct it is big for a gazebo, I should have said band stand. Lemonhawk, band stand is the idea. I found a 6 piece umpa band from Preiser and 12 park benches. I also found some folks in a sitting pose for the benches. I think it should work we will see.


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## CTValleyRR

jlc41 said:


> CTValley, you are correct it is big for a gazebo, I should have said band stand. Lemonhawk, band stand is the idea. I found a 6 piece umpa band from Preiser and 12 park benches. I also found some folks in a sitting pose for the benches. I think it should work we will see.


Ah , got it! That makes more sense. I saw a marching band set on one of the layouts at Amherst in January. Something like 20 figures in red uniforms. Didn't ask where it came from, unfortunately.


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## Lemonhawk

There used to be a bandstand like yours in Waconia, MN, but I just looked on Google Maps and it appears to be gone.


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## jlc41

A little more progress. Put some more grass down, a more ballast, cleaned up the band stand, placed some people on benches around the band stand and some general attention to details. Also put some color and grass on the tunnel mountain.


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## HOMatt

That is really starting to take shape!! Maybe add some bushes around the bandstand too.


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## RonthePirate

This ballast is 10 times better than that O scale stuff you had earlier.
It looks real.

Might think of putting some Lucite or Acrylic on the sides.
Better than having your engines do a nose dive.
(That's experience talking)

Edit: Put a brass band in the gazebo!
Would it be cool if you could find Sgt. Pepper's Band??


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## jlc41

HOMatt, good idea bushes around the band stand maybe some flowers too. Fencing for the yard and some special glue for the band and dancers are on the way. Lamp posts when I figure out whether to make or buy will be part of the scene. I also have to try my hand at making trees. 
RonthePirate, yes I was not happy with the ballast on the first go around, still have some places to finish, had to order more. Good idea on the Lucite on the sides, will do. I have a 4 piece swing band on order to go with the dancers. I love details and the suggestions from you guys. Needless to say am having fun.


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## jlc41

Okay guys the band finely showed up. Some kind of problem with a bunch of railroaders that were visiting Vegas, Cops told the railroaders not to come back ever. Any way the band is performing and the folks seem to be liking them. Now am waiting for the landscapers to bring in some trees and plant some flowers, at lest they got some bushes planted. Needless to say there's road and concrete work to be done.


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## Chip

Very well done in a small space, KUDOS, its alive and looks like a lot is going on there. Mine is just track and MDF right now, a "slot car set" in MRR form is what ive got now. TOO big is a real thing though some would dissagree, 500 square feet is a nice dream till its staring at you and you are out of money AND ideas! A "ten year plan" is really the way to go if you have the room for that "dream layout"! I went too big too fast and am on a "layout break" while the good scooting weather is here, the layout is not going anywhere and will be ready when i am. You got a great thing there and it looks excellent, again, well done Sir!


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## Genetk44

Chip said:


> ...... I went too big too fast ........!


Unfortunately it is a very common mistake of those first starting into the hobby.


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## jlc41

Thanks Chip, the bandstand was fun to build. Putting everybody in it was a bit of a challenge. I used Goo glue that is very sticky and lets you move things around if you need to. Now I need some kids and a dog for the green area and some trees and flowers.


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## Magic

When I first saw the bandstand I though it was a little big but seeing how you worked it in and the people and scenery it looks great. :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:

By the way stay outa LA for a while.  

Magic


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## CTValleyRR

Magic said:


> When I first saw the bandstand I though it was a little big but seeing how you worked it in and the people and scenery it looks great. :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:
> 
> By the way stay outa LA for a while.
> 
> Magic


I still think it's a little big (it reaches higher than the adjacent 2 story buildings), but I agree, I really like how it came out and how it looks.


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## jlc41

Thanks guys, got my streets, side walks and fire house apron painted the appropriate colors, asphalt and concrete. Need to line the streets etc. etc. lots to do.
BTW, I canceled my trip to LA due to a tip I got.


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## jlc41

Okay guys, a little more progress on the PCJ&B railroad. All the ballasting is finely done. Got the city to finely stripe the streets. There having such a good time at the band stand that a hot dog vendor set up across the street. Then some kids and their dogs showed up. Theirs a bunch of kids racing and skating around the park. The city also bought a new passenger car for their steam line service. The city also needs to find a contractor to install lights in the new passenger car. More more work is being planned, that's it for now.






















.


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## Big Ed

They have a band stand like that in my home town.
Good memories there. 











Maybe yours is a tad too high? It looks to be as high as the 2 story building?
Wouldn't be hard to chop the upright beams that hold the roof and lower the roof a little?

But all in all the layout is looking good.:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Lemonhawk

The Bandstand in Waconia, MN looked just like the one on your layout. Don't lower it.


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## jlc41

Thanks for the replies and comments guys. I need to learn how to make trees, flowers and a whole lot more. Am having fun, figuring what and how to add on.


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## Big Ed

Not to argue lemonhawk but I had to look up the gazebo you mentioned in Waconia.

I found a few pictures and it does look tall, but not as tall as yours jlc41. In the second picture look at the height with real people inside. 
Now look at the height of yours with the people inside. Can you see the height difference?

















Now actually yours looks like the one I posted in my hometown that looks a bit higher then the one in Waconia. I can't find a picture of it with people in it for a comparison, but look at the post that is holding the roof up. The distance, it sort of looks more like yours if you put people in it?
The one in my hometown is taller then the one in Waconia?
(I like the added cupola on the one in Waconia):thumbsup:










I added that it does look a bit too tall, you did ask?
Each has his own opinion. And I added it would not be hard to lower the roof some.

But bottom line is that it is your town (and RR) if you like it that is all that counts. Keep it as is.
They can come in all different sizes.:smokin::thumbsup:


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## Lemonhawk

Wow, the last I saw the Waconia bandstand would have been 1998. Hope its still there! I remember the lattice around the perimeter and that is what made me think its similar to the one on the layout. Where did you find the photo big-ed? I lived in Minnetrista at the time and the kids and I would some times go to Waconia to the movies.


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## Big Ed

Lemonhawk said:


> Wow, the last I saw the Waconia bandstand would have been 1998. Hope its still there! I remember the lattice around the perimeter and that is what made me think its similar to the one on the layout. Where did you find the photo big-ed? I lived in Minnetrista at the time and the kids and I would some times go to Waconia to the movies.


I agree it does look similar.

I think it was on their home page somewhere. They have an interactive map and you can click on different parts of the town and it brings up links to them.

That is a nice gazebo/bandstand they have there.

Google search Waconia gazebo it should bring up their website. Or google just the town and state, that should bring it up too.


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## jlc41

A little more progress on the PCJ&B RR. With the help of time warp I was able to ad an auto loader car. Thank you very much time warp I am in your debt. A few pics of the new addition.


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## Cycleops

Coming together nicely. To make the water more realistic I would paint it a greeny brown and pour in some clear lacquer and go over it with a hair dryer as it sets to give a ripple effect.


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## jlc41

Cycleops, good suggestions, but I pored the epoxy this after noon. However I think I can get a dab on epoxy that goes on white but dries clear and can be peaked to simulate breaking waves and rollers.


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## Big Ed

jlc41 said:


> Cycleops, good suggestions, but I pored the epoxy this after noon. However I think I can get a dab on epoxy that goes on white but dries clear and can be peaked to simulate breaking waves and rollers.


Love the color, looks just like Turquoise Lake in Gunung Kelimuta, Flores.










Some white on top simulating waves will tone down the blue some.

Water comes in all different colors.

A read for you,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9301&highlight=blue

The member was eventually tossed off the site, he has removed some of his pictures.
But the discussion of the color of water is still there along with other pictures.


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## jlc41

Thanks Ed, and yes if you go to the Dominican Republic and other Caribbean locals you will find the same or close to the color you see in my layout. But I do appreciate all the comments and ideas. Some pics with scratch built dock and water pored.






















Now for some fishermen and maybe a boat or two and possibly a fishing shop.


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## Big Ed

Nice fishing/boat dock. :smilie_daumenpos:

I like how it reflects into the water.
The water shoreline reflects too, making the sides look lighter.:thumbsup:

A bait store would look good, with a boat or 2.
Maybe a couple of canoes in the water or just pulled half up on land would look nice?


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## jlc41

Thanks again Big Ed, I really like the reflections in the water and the meniscus around the pilings. Fishermen, boats, and kids fling kites on the way. I thought about putting in a beach but am not sure now that the water is pored. How would I blend the sand and existing water? Wouldn't it look like the beach is on top of the water?? Have to think about it.


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## HOMatt

I really love that dock!! The whole layout is looking MUCH better then when I saw it last. I need to swing by and see it in person soon.
Matt


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## time warp

Looks really nice! 
Ever notice how it's usually summertime on a train layout?


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## jlc41

HOMatt, anytime you are welcome just give me a shout. Be glad to show you whats been happening at the PCJ&B RR.


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## CTValleyRR

I really like that dock! Well done.

Now all you need is a bait shack at the end of it, and maybe a boat rental place to go with your gazebo, and your little townspeople will never lack for summer recreation opportunities.


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## jlc41

CTValleyRR, thank you. The bait shop is on it's way along with some fishermen, some row boats and a few other things. I'll post when further along.


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## CTValleyRR

jlc41 said:


> CTValleyRR, thank you. The bait shop is on it's way along with some fishermen, some row boats and a few other things. I'll post when further along.


Great minds think alike!!:smilie_daumenpos:

I can't wait to see it!


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## Mr.Buchholz

Love the dock in the water, very realistic. The only thing is that the water looks more like a swimming pool due to the colour. Is there a way to darken the green at all?

-J.


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## jlc41

I don't know how to go about darkening the water. This is my first attempt at this hobby and a water feature. But thank you for the kudos on the dock. I am very happy with it. I guess I could try an additional tinted pore. I will have to try it on a practice piece.


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## jlc41

I don't know how to go about darkening the water. This is my first attempt at this hobby and a water feature. But thank you for the kudos on the dock. I am very happy with it. Next time I do water I will try tinting the epoxy.


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## jlc41

Looks like somebody got the word out that the fishing is good at the dock.


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## CTValleyRR

Nice bridge, too. You may want to place a little abutment at each end to make it part of the landscape rather than just perched on the banks.


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## jlc41

CTValley, good idea it's on my to do list. Thanks


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## time warp

What make are the HO citizens and boats?
Nice feature, it has its own personality.:thumbsup:


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## CTValleyRR

time warp said:


> What make are the HO citizens and boats?
> Nice feature, it has its own personality.:thumbsup:


I'll hazard a guess that there is a set of Preiser fisherman in the mix. Some of them look familiar...maybe slightly modified.


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## jlc41

timewarp, CTValley gets the cigar they are Preiser figures. Nice quality and detail.


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## jlc41

Well what do you know, I turn around for a minute and Bam, a bait / dock gets built.


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## CTValleyRR

Awesome!


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## The New Guy

CTValleyRR said:


> Awesome!


I agree - I like it.


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## jlc41

Thanks guy's, much more to do. I am really enjoying myself. lol


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## jlc41

*More Progrees*

Well it's election time and the Mayor is running for office again. So he contracted his brother in law to bring in some tress, park benches and build a couple new homes. The gravel company finally put in lighting for the night shift, and a service bridge with an on / off ramp for the new homes. Comments????


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## time warp

Looking good! Makes a huge difference when you add some " clutter". It keeps your eye moving and therefore the area looks larger. Plus more view blocks make the train route seem longer.
Very nice. Clean work.


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## jlc41

Thanks TW. Lots more to do, very enjoyable as the layout develops.


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## RonthePirate

Wow! remember the cigarette commercial, "You've come a long way, baby"?
Well, you have. That looks nice. Really, really nice.
I can see the attention you put into the details. Like the traffic cop.
One thing I did that you might consider: put some white lines on the parking spaces separating them.

Do you grease the roof of that fire truck when you pull it in and out?
That's a tight fit!
And I also like the way you built the coal facility into the side of that mountain.
That's realism.


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## jlc41

Thanks Ron, no the fire truck has a little more clearance then is shows in the pic, it's the camera angle that makes it look tight, lol. I like your idea about the parking space lines. It's on the to do list.


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## RonthePirate

Just for FYI, I use white tape, cut into 1/8" strips, then to length. Also works on street markings.


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## Magic

41 you're sure making some nice progress there. 
Looking good and some different ideas that work well. 

Magic


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## jlc41

Thanks Magic, hey Ron I forgot to tell you we let the air out of the tires to get the fire engine in and out of the house.


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## time warp

Is your layout still active?


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## jlc41

Yes it is although I have slowed down some. Working on a harbor and building a freighter and tug boats. I guess I should post a pic or two.


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## time warp

Good to hear. Staying involved and including others in your work is a great creative catalyst.


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## sid

any mo pics hummmmmm hahahah


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## time warp

You still out there, Joe?


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