# Pre/postwar loco/tender questions



## Prarie242 (Mar 5, 2014)

Hello. New to the forum and have a few questions as I'm trying to ID a few of my old Lionel pieces. I have mostly postwar stuff but some prewar and some modern. Great info on postwarlionel.com and learning alot about what I've got.

My quandry is this. I have a 1666 with the metal number plate which i assume is a 46 or early 47. But could it be a prewar locomotive and how do I tell? The reason i ask is that i have a few tenders that i am trying to match up with locomotives. I have a 2466W tender which would go with this engine if it is postwar. But i also have a 2689W sheet metal tender which the postwar site doesn't list but that would go with a prewar 1666. The 2689W has the later style staple end trucks and postwar style coupler.

If it turns out that the 1666 is a 46/47 and the 2689W tender is right for that, any suggestion for what engine would go with a 2689W tender? I really don't want two 1666s.

Confused in the Prairie,

Thanks.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Some info on post war 1666 http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=1666


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## Prarie242 (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks SJM

Thats a great site and was where i started from and i thought it was a postwar 46 or47, but then saw some other sites that show it also as a prewar engine. Not sure now. Trying to match up engines and tenders and thought i had it all figured out.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

The 1666 is a prewar design. It was one of three locomotives with the same body casting in 1938, including the O gauge 224 and the 1666 for O/27.
The 1666 was last cataloged in 1946. 


The post war 1946 had a bell that moves held on by a screw, later ones had one riveted on, the silver 1666 is printed on a separate plate, the later ones was on the cab, no separate plate.
That year also has a rounded rear cab floor. 
The rear truck is a spring loaded casting that the later ones did not have probably because of the cost.
The 2466WX tender for 1946 had silver Lionel Lines lettering on plastic sides.
The 1946 did not have smoke or magnatraction.

This is in the April/May 2014 O gauge railroading magazine. 
I just bought one the other day.

Do you know of this site?
Also good to bookmark for IDing Postwar Lionel trains.

http://www.tandem-associates.com/lionel/lionel_trains_1666_loco.htm


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Also found this http://www.oldlioneltrains.com/1666.htm


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok just dug my 1666 out. I always thought it was pre war because all the cars/transformer that came with it were. It has a movable bell, and springs in the front and rear. (real tight windings) . Silver 1666 on a removable black plate. The numbers are raised. Silver handrails. Nickel rims, die cast truck. Not sure on the rounded rear cab floor( I don't think so) it looks like the ones in the second link I posted. And did have a whistle tender( it's boxed up somewhere) .


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## Prarie242 (Mar 5, 2014)

Great sites! Thanks. I had not seen those before.

mine looks like either picture. Nickel rims, moveable bell with screw, square rear cab floor, metal number plate, rear truck spring loaded casting. No smoke. Not sure how to tell if it has magnatraction or not.

Thanks for the help


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

AFAIK, the 1666 never had magna-traction in anything I've read. One quick simple test, set it on a loose single piece of track. If it lifts or picks up the track it has magna on it. If not.... well you know the answer.

Carl


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## Prarie242 (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks Kwikster. Good idea. Tried it and it does not have magnatraction.

Nice quote! And true enough...


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## clovis (Jan 5, 2014)

I probably shouldn't be even commenting on this thread...but here goes:

I was of the understanding that the prewar 1666 models, for the most part, had an elongated draw bar for the tender, and the postwar versions had a shorter draw bar.

I was also of the understanding that sometimes it is difficult to date the late prewar versus the very early post war 1666 models because both Lionel and Madison Hardware were using existing parts stock and inventory to build engines during the war years for select customers. 

I believe that I read somewhere that Lionel was starting to produce consumer products again in late 1945, and again in 1946, and that there are a few odd ball variations because they were still using the prewar parts inventory during early postwar production.

Can any confirm or deny what I've posted?

Does anyone remember which issue of _Classic Toy Trains_ might have the article on the 1666 variations?


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Clovis, I believe you are right. Sometimes they used whatever parts they had on hand, for all there stock. As for the draw bar, I don't know. I've seen them in all shapes and sizes. Without a smaller one to compare I can't say if it's long or not. And i would also say it's hard to date these as they look the same. Flip a coin or put it with whatever tender you want.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

All right, having a hard ime editing post. 
So, I looked over the pictures again and the pre war does look to have a longer drawbar. Mine looks like it has a longer one too. But as was stated was this leftover stock? Who knows. I'm calling mine pre war. But I think the drawbar is a good indicator.


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## NYC 5344 (Dec 26, 2012)

Well, I have the prewar in gunmetal (not sure if this is common), but the draw bar is elongated, with projections out the sides at the bottom, so that it is difficult to separate the engine and tender. Mine has the number plate insert, sprung trailing truck, and a screw for the movable bell. It matches the one on oldlioneltrains.com, except that it doesn't have nickel rims, and the drive rod assembly is different. I can only assume that the drive rods were modified by the previous owner. Also, mine has the 1689T tender, not the 1689W. Hope this helps clear up the prewar question.


Interestingly enough, I also have a 1666e postwar, I'll have to do some research to find out what year it is. When I do some research, I could take a side by side photo.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Notice the draw bar, long and short.
The bells. The shape of the cab floor. (you really can't see the square cab floor in the picture)
Notice the numbers.
There is something about the draw bar size in relation to the year.
The 1666 never did have magnatraction.

Now that I have been researching it, that article that is in the o gauge new issue might have some wrong info in it? Anyone buy the new issue?
I have a whole bunch of CTT magazines, it would probably take me all day to find the 1666's in them.

These pictures are from the sold stuff from the site SJM linked.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Since I had it out, some pictures of mine.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The founded cab at the rear is a postwar detail. Flat is prewar, that is the most identifying feature.


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## Prarie242 (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks everybody, great info. I definitely agree with Clovis about production environments. I think they would put together whatever they have in stock to get a product sold so there are probably some variations.

My 1666 has the long drawbar with the two barbs on the sides And the squared off cab floor. Its probably not possible to say 100% if its pre or postwar, but safe to say its 46 or earlier. So i think i will put it with my 2689W tender which looks right with it and find another locomotive to go with my 2466WX


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