# ModelTrainForum.com Graphic - Do you like it?



## tworail

Do you like the header graphic at the top?

Vote yes or no and add your comments. I kinda like it but I am open to change. 

My dream was to have a couple that would rotate in there but I never got around to it. I want to show a large scale one for example. Any other ideas?

People with PhotoShop skills can go mad here and make something cool.

I voted that I like it


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## Boston&Maine

I like it too, although having a couple different pictures cycling as the page gets refreshed would be cool


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## tworail

Need more feedback, c'mon people!


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## alfalfa

I like it but it could use some color and some motion. It would also be cool with various train sounds when your pointer pass over it. :thumbsup:


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## blinndside

i dig it. i would like to see a moving train or like boston said.. a new picture when it refreshes..


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> People with PhotoShop skills can go mad here and make something cool.


LOL, has anyone screwed around with different logos? I know I would if I had the PhotoShop program


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## Boston&Maine

Here, I made one with my Paint and PowerPoint skillz, and it does not look _that_ bad :thumbsup:

I even pre-fit it to be 750x125 pixels... Oh and I used one of your pictures Manosdr, but I figured you would not mind having it at the top of the site (if my work is worthy) 

LOL, this took me WAY to long to make because I am such a perfectionist


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## alfalfa

B & M,
Nice work. I think that is better than the one now being used. :thumbsup:

Alfalfa


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## Boston&Maine

alfalfa said:


> B & M,
> Nice work. I think that is better than the one now being used. :thumbsup:
> 
> Alfalfa


Thank you very much... I do not know, there was something about it which I did not like though, so I made a new one... This one is much better and I demand you to put it up top Tworail


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## tworail

WOW great stuff. Let me throw that up there!

I like the euro influence, hopefully Manos won't mind we are using some of his photos.


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> I like the euro influence, hopefully Manos won't mind we are using some of his photos.


Yea, I probably _technically_ should have asked him first, but I do not see him minding... If he does then I guess I will have to get my own pictures to work on 

Actually, I will send him a PM now...


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## tworail

Oh I already asked he said it was cool.


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> Oh I already asked he said it was cool.


LOL, too late now 

Looks like I am going to send him another PM


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## tworail

NP, a little extra spam never killed anyone


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> NP, a little extra spam never killed anyone


Oh snap! I better watch out before people start replying to all my posts with this picture :banplz:


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## tworail

Ask and ye shall receive. Check it out!!


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> Ask and ye shall receive. Check it out!!


LOL, cool :thumbsup:

It adds more color to the site, I like it... But is there anyway you can have like yours and mine (and if anymore are created) cycling with each new page / page refresh?


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## tworail

There is a way yeah, I'm just too lazy right now to figure it out as it involves putting some code in. I read up on it a while ago when I first put up the site so I will have to dig up my notes.

I could just rotate the file names using a script on the server but that's a real hack 

For example, at 10:10 rename the files so B&M's is in rotation. At 10:20 rename it again so mine goes up etc etc. It's not the greatest solution.


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> There is a way yeah, I'm just too lazy right now to figure it out as it involves putting some code in. I read up on it a while ago when I first put up the site so I will have to dig up my notes.












LOL, that is cool then 

Maybe you can do it if/when we get more image submissions...


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## Boston&Maine

Here is another one I just made, so now you need to rotate them 

BTW, you are saving these to your own place, right? I just want to know if I can delete them from my Photobucket account...


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## T-Man

*Vote Yes!*

I like the Photo :thumbsup:


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> I like the Photo :thumbsup:


Well if you like the photo I used then you should check out all of the other ones of Manosdr's N scale layout :thumbsup:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=248


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## T-Man

*WoWZA!*

Truly Amazing, I would never of guessed it as N scale!


I promised some Pics. What is a good size to upload into the gallery?


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## Boston&Maine

T-Man said:


> I promised some Pics. What is a good size to upload into the gallery?


IDK, I guess 800x600 is good... If the image is any larger it automatically gets resized to that size anyways :dunno:


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## smokey

Well... I know I'm a bit newbie-ish 'round these parts, but you asked 

I'd like a little more color, a little more... zing!!! A rotating header, maybe once a month, or even on a constant, every time you're here, give it a few seconds and a new one pops up, style. You could use photos from members' layouts. Works in progress, especially, I think, would be cool from time to time, kinda break up the monotony...

Honestly, tho... I really don't pay the header much attention after the first time I saw it. I really didn't like it that much then, but to me, it's the quality of the site and it's members that makes this place what it is... not the header 


Oh, and by the way.... kinda off topic, but the boy and me went on another museum/yard trip yesterday... AND, YES.... I TOOK MY CAMERA. How's about 125 pictures sound?! (sheesh.... tough crowd !!!) I posted a few last night in the gallery, but got plenty more. I'll need to organize and separate the museum pics from the yard, but I'm sure it'll be obvious 

I'll post more when I get time later tonight. I also started the new benchwork for the new layout last night... worked till 5am !!! Man... I'm beat. But really happy- everything is SQUARE, with one very minor discrepancy at the base of one leg.... it's off by about 1/32"  Simply unacceptable!!!! Luckily, since I'll be angle bracing them today, I _think_ I should be able to tweak it a little to put it in spec 


Anyway, time here is time away from there... so gotta go 

Oh... and had to start my day (got up about 2pm  man I hate that.... just waste a day. But, hey, y'all should know... when you're in the zone... run with it!!!!!! 5AM? Ehhh... whatever!!!!) by putting up a small pool for the boy. Put down some fill-dirt and sand, leveled it off a bit and.... here ya go, boy, hold the hose for a few hours  :laugh:!!! After a couple minutes, I strapped the hose to chair and he's having himself a blast 


Anyfreakingway..... y'all check out my gallery and let me know what ya think and I'll try to get more pics up tonight. Oh yeah, even got a couple videos 

L8R
smokey


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## Boston&Maine

smokey said:


> I'd like a little more color, a little more... zing!!! A rotating header, maybe once a month, or even on a constant, every time you're here, give it a few seconds and a new one pops up, style. You could use photos from members' layouts. Works in progress, especially, I think, would be cool from time to time, kinda break up the monotony...


I tried talking Tworail into making a rotating header, and he said he knew how but was too lazy to do it 




smokey said:


> Honestly, tho... I really don't pay the header much attention after the first time I saw it. I really didn't like it that much then, but to me, it's the quality of the site and it's members that makes this place what it is... not the header


Yea, I know it sucks, I did it with Paint and MS PowerPoint since I do not have Photoshop... I do not know if you ever saw Tworail's original one, it was graphically better, although it was mostly grey 




smokey said:


> Oh, and by the way.... kinda off topic, but the boy and me went on another museum/yard trip yesterday... AND, YES.... I TOOK MY CAMERA. How's about 125 pictures sound?! (sheesh.... tough crowd !!!) I posted a few last night in the gallery, but got plenty more. I'll need to organize and separate the museum pics from the yard, but I'm sure it'll be obvious


I took a quick look at your pictures and they are awsome looking... I love the color of BNSF orange


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## alfalfa

Where is the photo?


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## T-Man

*Oops*

Ok! you got me! The thread is about the graphic at the top! Not a picture


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## smokey

alfalfa said:


> Where is the photo?


Spanky , if you're talking about my pics, they're in the members gallery... I still have mose to post...


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## tworail

Anyone can make a graphic for the forum, you can try out your Photoshop skills for real!

The size is 750x125 and we will take just about anything. This is not a poke at B&M's efforts either 

We have had that one up for a while, so we could change it up a bit.


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## Boston&Maine

tworail said:


> We have had that one up for a while, so we could change it up a bit.


NTrainLover made one a while ago, I am not sure if you ever saw the thread?

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=350


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## T-Man

I'm having so much fun posting. I'm going to have to do more reading in the threads! Thanks, I missed that banner thread.


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## smallcaboose

Huum, had to say NO... but you asked for it. I find it a bit too childish... toy like if you will. I love the banner from Ntrainlover though !!

Mart


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## Boston&Maine

smallcaboose said:


> Huum, had to say NO... but you asked for it. I find it a bit too childish... toy like if you will. I love the banner from Ntrainlover though !!
> 
> Mart


Yea, I am sick of looking at my creation too... There was not much more I could do though with PowerPoint


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## B.C.RAIL

I'm going to have to agree with smallcaboose...hwell: But hit the wrong button on the poll..


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## smallcaboose

Boston&Maine said:


> Yea, I am sick of looking at my creation too... There was not much more I could do though with PowerPoint


Sorry... no offense... cars on the flat bed just give it away too easily !


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## stationmaster

I don't care for it. I think it looks a tad cheesy..... too much like plastic. I have seen headers on some other sites that are nicer,. Some are animated, Soem have a header that changes, like a slide show. Maybe a good picof a real engine at work....Afterall, we are trying to model the real thing, right?


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## glgraphix

Just for good measure, lol. You asked if it was "God or Bad"?? Not sure what the Man upstairs had to do with the header, lol?
Just bust'n your chops, if I didnt go back and proof read everything I typed it wouldnt be pretty.
Kevin


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## Boston&Maine

I never noticed that before; you have a good eye... I probably did not even read the question when I answered this poll many months ago... I fixed it because typos drive me insane... I am a bit of a "grammar Nazi" as they say 

EDIT: So, is anyone working on a better header?


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## tworail

stationmaster said:


> I don't care for it. I think it looks a tad cheesy..... too much like plastic. I have seen headers on some other sites that are nicer,. Some are animated, Soem have a header that changes, like a slide show. Maybe a good picof a real engine at work....Afterall, we are trying to model the real thing, right?


Not necessarily. We are here to have fun! 

That said, the header does need work. I have some ideas for the site up my sleeve but haven't had time to get them implemented.

Also, everyone should check out the origin of where that image was created, if you want to see 'close to the real thing' 

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=248

I will also throw up the original header, as we haven't seen it in some time.


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## tworail

OK I put the original MTF header up that I made way back when the site was created. I kinda like it 

Good blend of realism, sharp photography, readable fonts but you can still tell it's a model train. Note the tools and stuff in the background, and the handlaid track


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## stationmaster

Why not link to the gallery and have a slide show?


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## tworail

stationmaster said:


> Why not link to the gallery and have a slide show?


Couple reason why it isn't feasible.. one all the pictures would need to be the same dimension as the main header.. which they aren't. Second is that it's beyond my 'coding' abilities to make that happen.

However, I will look into it more seriously if site members create (doesn't matter where from) 750 x 125 px images I will see if I can rotate them in.


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## Chiefmcfuz

Wow that display is awesome!

Where do you get those wall displays like are in those pics? I would love to get one or 2.


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## stationmaster

The new header is better.


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## tworail

stationmaster said:


> The new header is better.


Thanks  We'll leave it up for a bit and see what happens!


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## Boston&Maine

I see you brought back the original header TwoRail


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## B.C.RAIL

Ooo, very nice header!! I like I like.


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## T-Man

I think newbies will get confused and think we are an entirely different forum.

The last picture sorta identified the forum. 

I think the red with the off color is great. The logo is before my time. Oh I feel so young now. 

Overall I like the change.


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## tworail

T-Man said:


> I think newbies will get confused and think we are an entirely different forum.


I hope this would not be the case 

This header was designed with the forum colors in mind - silvers, grays, blacks and a pinch of CP RAIL RED :thumbsup:

:laugh:


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## B.C.RAIL

I think it's good, to the point...


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## Southern

tworail said:


> However, I will look into it more seriously if site members create (doesn't matter where from) 750 x 125 px images I will see if I can rotate them in.


That would be cool. I love that layout.


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## smallcaboose

Ok... I have to admit... this one is top on my list ! Great work guys.
2009 will be great with this kind of banner.

Mart.


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## stationmaster

I wish we could get a slide show or animated banner.


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## tworail

stationmaster said:


> I wish we could get a slide show or animated banner.


Tworail hides 

I will see what I can do.


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## dennytodd

This is better header than the one with the people.
Denny Todd


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## B.C.RAIL

Another link drop.... :sly:


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## rhenry

I think it looks good. I would like to see the rotation too. Antother idea would be maybe a panoramic view of layouts or as mush has a train you can fit in to the picture.


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## calirider

More color and landscape needed.


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## cncproadwarrior

You can go crazy trying to select the "right" image. Whether people like it or not is subjective: beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally I think somthing with a little more weathering would be nice. But I like the fact that it's a canuk engine.


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## B.C.RAIL

Ya I still think the header is cool. CP is the first Railroad I started modeling.


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## tworail

Weathering eh.. if I was more of a photoshop junkie I might be able to do something


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## DJTrains

I like what you have but anything you come up with I'm sure would also be good.

The one thing about changing the top is many people know sites by their logos. I came back because when I saw your present image I remembered it. I had long forgotten the exact name of the forum. And as we all know there are a lot of model railroad forums and websites these days.

If a change is made I wouldn't do it too often.

DJ


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## Hopcopter

I like the graphic but I'm sure you could find a more compelling one. I don't agree that the pic should cycle on refreshes... a website should have a consistent identifiable look to maintain the brand, and cycling the images too much can detract from this goal. just my two cents ;-)


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## tworail

Here's the thing about the graphic. I like it because I made it from one of my own photos and did a bit of editing in Photoshop to get it where it is. I don't have any PS skills so for me it was a small victory. It's hard to integrate actual photography into site logos, which is why alot of sites don't have them. Or if they do, it's cheezy looking.

At a first glance it does not look like much, I agree. But once if you stare at it a bit longer.. you will notice:

1) the slight weathering on the GT boxcar (Branchline kit)
2) the pin vise and other tools in the background
3) the hand laid track on which the engine and two cars (last is a InterMountain Pillsbury tanker) sit

Maybe people noticed this anyway and it's not a big deal. Sorta like this forum, there is more than meets the eye. But if that doesn't say 'model railroading' I don't know what does  

At this point the header will probably not change. Hopcopter is completely right when we need to keep consistent branding, LOL, sound like a huge company here. In a day and age where things are changing constantly it's nice to keep it as is.


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## matt

tworail said:


> Here's the thing about the graphic. I like it because I made it from one of my own photos and did a bit of editing in Photoshop to get it where it is. I don't have any PS skills so for me it was a small victory. It's hard to integrate actual photography into site logos, which is why alot of sites don't have them. Or if they do, it's cheezy looking.
> 
> At a first glance it does not look like much, I agree. But once if you stare at it a bit longer.. you will notice:
> 
> 1) the slight weathering on the GT boxcar (Branchline kit)
> 2) the pin vise and other tools in the background
> 3) the hand laid track on which the engine and two cars (last is a InterMountain Pillsbury tanker) sit
> 
> Maybe people noticed this anyway and it's not a big deal. Sorta like this forum, there is more than meets the eye. But if that doesn't say 'model railroading' I don't know what does
> 
> At this point the header will probably not change. Hopcopter is completely right when we need to keep consistent branding, LOL, sound like a huge company here. In a day and age where things are changing constantly it's nice to keep it as is.


While I appreciate your modesty, I think you should give yourself credit. You did a good job with the juxtaposition of the color with black&white:thumbsup:. Hopcopter makes a good point about consistancy but if you put the same effort into an alternating line-up as you did with the current selection Im sure it would turn out great. Keep up the good work!


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## Reckers

Tworail, I'll be honest...when I first came here, I glanced at it and thought it a photo of a real railroad. Never gave it a second thought. Eventually, I realized the CP was for Canuck Psychotic or whatever passes for a railroad through a frozen hell...*L* I guess I'm trying to say you did it so very well, I just assumed from the start it was a real photo and not a bench/layout photo. Nice, nice job!


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## tooter

Yeah, the realism caught my attention, too...
I especially like that pic because of the old fashioned switcher with the cool round cab roof.


Greg


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## stationmaster

Need to "dirty up" the switcher..............Then it will look real.

Bob


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## tankist

it is a good banner but i actually have it filtered out by adblockplus


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## tworail

tankist said:


> it is a good banner but i actually have it filtered out by adblockplus


HAHA site must load pretty quick!


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## bradimous1

I am curious... is the pic of a SW1000 switcher? If so, is it stock, or custom decorated? I love the graphics on it and have a undecorated one that I am about to tackle... any thoughts on where I can get decals for it... like the black and white stripe on the back

by the way, the banner at the top was the original reason that I started reading more and more on this site before becoming a member... its awesome


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## stationmaster

MicroScale offers the "zebra stripes". They might be labeled as ATSF, however.

Bob


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## B.C.RAIL

It's an Alco S3.


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## supermunk

I love the pic. sooo much.


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## Smokestack Lightning

Some movement would be nice. Name needs to be more prominent. Great site though:thumbsup:


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## concretepumper

I like it. Heck it says CPRail on it. I am "CP"  Hmmmm I need to find one of those! :thumbsup:


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## norgale

I was just thinking that the header ought to be changed once in awhile. So here you are asking about just that. I say change it once a week.. Pete


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## N-gauged

There is just so many train models and scenarios that could be put up there.
There is no way to please everyone.

I'd like to see Rio Grand or Santa Fe up there.
​


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## haphall

Steam. Made us who we are.


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## gunrunnerjohn

It needs Amtrak or PRR up there.


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## norgale

Seminol Gulf too.


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## gunrunnerjohn

norgale said:


> Seminol Gulf too.


Who? :laugh:


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## N-gauged

Maybe do a contest where peeps send in a graphic the same size as the banner
and then do a pole for everyone to vote on there favorite.​


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## norgale

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Who? :laugh:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9lIBQMpdCM


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## gunrunnerjohn

Same question? :laugh: I never saw that livery or even heard of them before!


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## norgale

Guess you just don't get out much John. Ha! The S&G is very much alive and well here in Florida. Atlas like it too. Ya heard o' them? Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn

A dink-water place like Florida? No wonder I haven't heard of them 

Let's talk







everyone's heard of them, or the







, real railroads.


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## norgale

Sure,everyone has heard of Amtrack and Conrail too. We should know them as we have been subsidising them for years. S&G makes it on their own like a good American railroad should do. Take away the taxpayers money and both Amtrack and Conrail are out of business right now. Ya I know Amtrack. I own part of it. Ha! Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn

I forgot Conrail.


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## gc53dfgc

CSX seems to be doing pretty well on their own. I personally would like to see models of the Reading and Northern produced.


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## Evan

To be honest, this website needs to be spiced up... Maybe a different back ground colour, you could change the header image, etc... Only though if people want too.


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## Big Ed

Evan said:


> To be honest, this website needs to be spiced up... Maybe a different back ground colour, you could change the header image, etc... Only though if people want too.



Well Tworail and SUPER MOD B&M are basically non existant here.


I guess it would be up to the NEW administrators?


A old Jersey Central stuck in there would be nice.


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## B.C.RAIL

I still like the header and I've been here since '08. But a change would be nice too.


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## vonbonds

I am new to the site and love the layout and color scheme. Everything is easily accessible and the colors make everything easy to read. At the end of the day that is all a message board needs to be so I will take it. As far as the banner image it would be fun it if would rotate each day or something like that.


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## Russell

I think that it's important to have a constant image so that when you come to the site, you know you're there and that you have not made a mistake and gone elsewhere.

An image is more successful at doing this than words are.


...in my humble opinion and so on .............


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## dwayne29

I really don't care what the graphic is. What keeps me coming back to this forum is that the pages load quickly to my mobile tablet. Please stay away from animations that will slow down page loading. Content over style is more important to me.


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## Falcon1964

*I like it.*

I happen to have photoshop skills but no good pics of trains. If you send me 4-5 pics I could probably throw something together. Maybe you'll like or maybe not? no worries either way.


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## xrunner

The graphic at the top of the forum is just bland at best. I don't understand the point of having most of the picture black and white and then making the engine in color. Highlighting that engine made me think "What is the importance of that little engine to this forum". The text is too small and I wouldn't make it black.

In addition, it's not really, how should I say it, something that implies "activity" for lack of a better word. The engine is turned backwards possibly pushing things away from you or even stopped. The shot is too much of a close-up.

I'd make it a more interesting open shot. Something obviously active and colorful, coming towards the viewer. In a very general example, like this -










In other words, IMHO, you can do a lot better than that graphic, a whole lot better.

EDIT: To the people who like it - _why?_ I think you are just comfortable with it. What's to like about it?


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## tjcruiser

Speaking as a member here, rather than any capacity as a Moderator ...

I'm not a big fan of the site image, either. I'd love to see a steamer in the mix. I'd toss a look over towards Shaygetz for any of the incredibly realistic train/layout photos that he's posted on the site. They really grab one's attention and ask what we would all love to hear: "Is that real, or is that a model?!?"

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

While I don't find the image inspired, I really hardly ever look at it. I come for the ASCII and pictures of other member's stuff.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> While I don't find the image inspired, I really hardly ever look at it. I come for the ASCII and pictures of other member's stuff.


That's _exactly_ the point I was just writing up ... :thumbsup:

I went to look at other model train forums to show what I felt might be better examples for a banner graphic, but to me, they all leave a lot to be desired.

The point is, do we want as many members as possible to join? Don't think of the graphic as something so much for the current members to look at, as much as something to attract new users. People judge things on the internet very quickly, and IMHO, the graphic up there now isn't nearly as good as it could be for attracting new members. Like it or not, a certain number of new people will make a judgement based on the attractiveness of the colors/graphic.

What the Admins should do is think of the graphic as something to sell the forum. Really, it's not for the members already here, it's a shiny object to attract new members. Most of us aren't interested in the graphic now, because we are past that point - we're reading and writing posts. I mean, who logs into the forum every day saying to themselves "First off, before I read replies to my posts, where's that beatiful graphic at!". It really doesn't matter if the older members want to keep it, because it's purpose isn't mainly for members already here. It's to sell the forum to _new_ members. 

In other words, if the graphic was removed today, would the current members who have a vested interest in posting for information and friendship, leave?

No, I don't think so.

That's my point - it's _not_ for current members, it's to attract _new_ members. It's packaging to get you to "buy" the product (join the forum). I know I'm right about this, it's just a matter of getting people to realize it.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, as a sample of one, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so they can put whatever they like up there.  Best would probably be to rotate some assorted graphics up there to add a little interest.


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## tjcruiser

Pic or rotating pics of members' projects would be my vote.


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## xrunner

Well if we really want to go about it the right way, we'd have to ask the first most important question:
*
What is the purpose of the banner graphic for the Model Train Forum? *

Obviously I think banner graphics on forums are for a certain purpose but I don't own the forum. If it's to post interesting pics of member's projects then that would be a different purpose. But, in either case, IMHO, the one up there now not suitable for either.


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## tjcruiser

I disagree with you there a bit, respectfully.

I think the banner could do _both_ with the same pic(s): feature members' noteworthy projects, _and_ draw new members to the site. Without a doubt, we certainly have many members whose projects are outstanding with "headline worthy" photos.

To prove this (of sorts), I would look at it the other way around. If we have a banner pic(s) that showed something fabulous, but was not something member-generated, wouldn't that be somehow dishonest as a front-door invite to new members? I.e., "Look! Here's a great model train. Oh, but by the way, this was built/created somewhere else, not here." Not a good "disclaimer" to have to slip between the lines.

My thinking, anyway.

TJ


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## xrunner

So tj, what is the purpose of the banner graphic? First you have to state it so I can talk apples to apples with you about it.


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## gunrunnerjohn

The banner is up there to fill the space at the top of the page, right?


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The banner is up there to fill the space at the top of the page, right?


Perhaps.

Who knows, unless the powers that be respond to the question:
*
What is the purpose of the banner graphic for the Model Train Forum? *

If it has no real purpose, then so be it, but as a former forum owner myself, I would say that's a terrible waste of potential.


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## tjcruiser

Well, I'm only speaking as a member here, but I think the role of the banner graphic is pretty obvious: it's the front door (or doormat, perhaps) to the forum. As such, it should portray a friendly welcome to any newcomers. As simple as that, I'd suggest.


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## norgale

I want an AMERICAN train up there. Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn

Well, in a lot of ways, it would probably be cooler to have something more unusual, like an old European train there. Something that folks don't see every day, might make them curious.


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> Well, I'm only speaking as a member here, but I think the role of the banner graphic is pretty obvious: it's the front door (or doormat, perhaps) to the forum. As such, it should portray a friendly welcome to any newcomers.


OK, thanks for responding.

Per your response, I very respectfully suggest that is a very vague purpose tj. What constitutes a graphic that implies a "friendly welcome to any newcomers"? I agree it should be for newcomers, but we could put up a couple of people smiling, drinking iced tea, and waving hands, and that would satisfy your requirement. I don't think that's good enough, IMHO. I think it could be a lot more purposeful than that. By the way, how does the current graphic satisfy that purpose, if you think it does (maybe you don't). It's just a bland, uninteresting picture.

As I've said in a previous post, it needs to be more purposeful - for crying out loud, it's a model train forum. What do model railroaders do? They model railroads, build tables, do electronics, computers, scenery, operate trains, design artwork, paint, ... 

The graphic we have now, IMHO, neither "welcomes" anyone, nor does it come close to stirring the imagination of a newcomer trying to pick which forum to join. For example, a lot of younger people are into computers - why not incorporate that into the graphic, and so on. It needs work, and I don't know why the owners don't tap into the minds of the users here to get a better banner made up.


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## tjcruiser

I nominate Xrunner to draft a Mission Statement for our Forum front page banner, and then design a few candidate images / templates that we could consider for a new one.

Any seconds on that nomination?!? 

Do we need a Banner Committee??? 

(I'm being a little tonge-in-cheek here, but not totally ... if you think that you have some novel ideas up your sleeves, then please proceed with some thinking, and we can certainly propose something to Admin.)

Cheers,

TJ


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> if you think that you have some novel ideas up your sleeves, then please proceed with some thinking, and we can certainly propose something to Admin.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TJ


Will do. Be back later with ideas. May need a graphics person who is better than I am to help.

Thanks.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I second the nomination, he's elected! 

*xrunner*, be careful what you wish for.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> *xrunner*, be careful what you wish for.


I wish for 1 Million dollars, I wish for 1 Million dollars, I wish for 1 Million dollars, 

...


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## Xnats

Now get back to work :hah: :laugh:


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## Massey

OK just popping in here with my couple of pennies. 

My opinion of the current banner has always been it is ok.. not great not bad but OK. It does show a train doing some work and that does say about modeling railroads but the B&W with color mixed in to me is an overdone trick that I am getting annoyed seeing all the time (check out Deviantart and you will see the cause of my annoyance.) I also feel that is it not either welcoming or unwelcoming but simply just there. 

I have always admired the pictures of old steam and modern diesels together NS has one in their lobby showing 611 and a modern engine (I think a dash 9) were you can see about 1/2 of 611 in the background and the foreground shows the front half of the diesel as well. A photo like this but of models could be inviting to others as it shows both major eras of trains together. Not sure but I like the idea. 

Flashy is not always good. There is another forum around here that is hosted by a Model Railroad magazine that has a flashy graphic filled site that is hard to navigate, find threads you have posted to, errors out IE when loading every now and then and the people there are not always friendly. Did I mention the nazi admins there that will delete any post that mentions any site that is not Walthers or from their own URL? Oh and yea they dont like you even mentioning the almost dead Atlas website forums either and Atlas is one of the advertisers on that site. 

I feel that this is the best forum for Model trains on the web. The people here are kind, generous, helpful and good natured. We cover all scales and all types of trains and the forum itself is easy to navigate through all types and scales. Personally I dont like black and white text as I have issues with reading black on white but for the masses it is the status quo.

Massey


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## Massey

Xrunner you can wish in one hand and... in the other... Lemme know how that turns out.

Massey


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## xrunner

Massey said:


> My opinion of the current banner has always been it is ok.. not great not bad but OK. It does show a train doing some work and that does say about modeling railroads but the B&W with color mixed in to me is an overdone trick that I am getting annoyed seeing all the time (check out Deviantart and you will see the cause of my annoyance.) I also feel that is it not either welcoming or unwelcoming but simply just there.


We need better than just OK. We need welcoming and interesting.



> Flashy is not always good. ...


I'm not going for flashy either. Just a straightforward graphic that creates more interest for prospective new users than the current one.



> I feel that this is the best forum for Model trains on the web. The people here are kind, generous, helpful and good natured. We cover all scales and all types of trains and the forum itself is easy to navigate through all types and scales. Personally I dont like black and white text as I have issues with reading black on white but for the masses it is the status quo.


If it's the best forum then we need the best graphic too. I'll post my ideas here later today.


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## Big Ed

It was put there by Tworail, with the help of B&M.

I don't think they would miss it as they are hardly ever here any more.


I vote for a new one.


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> I nominate Xrunner to draft a Mission Statement for our Forum front page banner, and then design a few candidate images / templates that we could consider for a new one.


First, we need to agree on the mission statement for the banner, and then agree on _what_ to design, before any time is spent _on_ the design.

Proposed Mission Statement for the Model Train Forum banner graphic:

The banner graphic shall impart a visual statement reinforcing the stated purpose of the forum, which can be seen at the top of the forum page. The stated purpose of this forum is:

*"The Complete Model Train Resource"*

I would propose the following type of banner - one that shows the various aspects of the model train (model railroading) hobby thus reinforcing the assertion made to new prospective members that this forum is "The Complete Model Train Resource". It would achieve this by showing various aspects of the hobby, one image being faded into another from left to right. 

Options would be -
*
A. From left to right, show the progress of building a model railroad, from design (a computer track design), to benchwork, to track, to scenery, to operating, even with a computer or smartphone (it is the 21st century).*

or
*
B. From left to right, show various aspects of the hobby, in no particular order, but yet imparting some of the interesting aspects of model railroading, to garner newcomer's attention, both young and old.
*
The images should come from members' own personal layouts/files, who volunteer the images for the banner. There should be enough members and images available this way to create the banner. If this idea is acceptable, we would then solicit pics from members and get a volunteer with an appropriate editing program, to create the graphic banner. Several could be created and the winner voted on by the membership.

Thank you for allowing me to post my ideas on this matter. I await the decisions of the management.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Not to rain on your parade, but it sounds like you want to make the banner the size of an entire page! Having that much stuff on the top of the page would simply make it so jumbled that nobody would be sure what we were trying to say.

We're talking about trains here, so my suggestion would be to have two or three representative train pictures across the banner.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Not to rain on your parade, but it sounds like you want to make the banner the size of an entire page!


I have an umbrella.

Not at all though, the size can be the same. You'll see.


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## tjcruiser

Runner,

"Management" is pretty informal here. Let's see what idea(s) you come up with, we can toss them around here a bit, and them maybe present them to Admin.

As I was reading your posts, I was thinking the same thing as John: your concept seems like you're trying to cram an enormous amount of content/info into a relatively tiny graphic. I'm not being critical of the end-goal, as long as it comes across in an uncluttered, attractive manner.

A few questions (for Admin, I guess, but anyone can chime in here) ...

1. What percentage of your browser window is filled with the banner image, and what percentage is just dead white space to the right? (I guesss this depends on whether you're expanded to full screen, what screen res, etc.) I'm just looking for a "middle of the road" answer here.

2. With that, do we have room to expand the width of the banner image a bit?

3. What are the forum / vbullentin complexities to have alternating banner images ... say a "deck" of 10 or so, with any one randomly popping up each time you view the page?

4. Is it possible (with programming reason, bandwidth, etc.) to have some sort of animated banner (is that "gif" format???) ... a train with some motion? Perhaps too gimmicky, but it's worth discussing at least.

TJ


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> Runner,
> 
> "Management" is pretty informal here. Let's see what idea(s) you come up with, we can toss them around here a bit, and them maybe present them to Admin.


I'll try to make a simple example, but it won't be suitable for the banner because I don't have a powerful graphics program.



> As I was reading your posts, I was thinking the same thing as John: your concept seems like you're trying to cram an enormous amount of content/info into a relatively tiny graphic. I'm not being critical of the end-goal, as long as it comes across in an uncluttered, attractive manner.


Guys, guys - remain calm, you will see it won't be that much content and it won't be a huge monstrosity. Don't get ahead of the process.


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## gunrunnerjohn

It is possible to do an animated GIF, but I caution you against it. It takes computing resources and bandwidth, not sure how the management that pays for those things will come down on that. Best to go with a static image.

As for how large the graphic is, let's go for one extreme, I have a 28" 1920x1080 monitor. Note that I shrunk the images so they wouldn't cause issues with other folks viewing, but you can see the relative amount consumed by the current graphic.

If I run the browser full-screen, this is what I see.










If I run the browser windowed, which is how I usually run, this is what I see.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> It is possible to do an animated GIF, but I caution you against it. It takes computing resources and bandwidth, not sure how the management that pays for those things will come down on that. Best to go with a static image.


John, I totally agree - no animation.


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## tjcruiser

OK ... no animation. (I was thinking it was a no-no, but the tech background reasons are beyond me.)

As for the width of a static image, I'd think (???) that most people here on the forum are running a screen with res much higher than old-school 800x600. Per John's informative screenshots, above, there's a lot of "unused white space" off to the right of our banner. Can we "claim that" without any harsh toll on bandwith, resources, etc.?

At nightime, I surf on our cheezy HP family laptop ... 1366 x 768 screen. Most times, I'm looking at the forum full screen or near full screen. That puts the top of my forum ar roughly 60% image, 40% blank white space.

Again ... a lot of "unclaimed" real estate potential there...

TJ


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> Again ... a lot of "unclaimed" real estate potential there...


We can claim some more I think, but I don't want the graphic to be too busy. I will try to put together something tomorrow, but it will only be a starting point.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks, Runner. There's no critical time table here. But if you're "into it" and have some time, we'd certainly appreciate your ideas.

TJ


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## xrunner

Here is an example of what the new banner concept would be, but before you read further -

**** This is only an example - the pics are not good enough in quality, composition, or styling ****

In this example, I went from computer design phase to operating. The text 

*ModelTrainForum.com
the complete model train resource *

would be placed on the banner with a solid background so as to be clearly visible. The banner is of the same size as the original - 750 x 125, but possibly could be longer to accommodate another pic.

Again I repeat - at this point - (for the initial haters) -

**** This is only an example - the pics are not good enough in quality, composition, or styling and need to be faded into each other along with possibly other graphics tuning. Much more time needs to be taken to choose pics that flow better and look better.

We will NOT use these pics for the banner ****

Please focus on the conceptual design at this point! The point is to have the banner show why this forum is the complete model train resource.

Thank you.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I'd figure on folks running 1024x768 monitors as the "floor" for the size of the graphic. I don't know anyone that runs less than that nowadays, and most folks have at least 1280 wide at least. That would allow for about a 900 pixel wide graphic, given the other stuff that still has to fit on the screen.

As far as the content of the sample, the idea seems OK, but I'd probably go with no more than four images for the width of the banner. I don't think you can cover the breadth of the forum's topics in the banner, and I don't think we should really try.

I'd also have at least one a really cool locomotive in a nice setting. The recommendation to take one of Shay's shots was good, he does some great work with his layout.


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## tjcruiser

'Runner,

I like the "stepwise design / construction / running" concept! As a fan of older-school repair and restoration, I'd like to think we could throw that concept into the mix, too, but it may not be as sequential as the others.

I'll concur with John ... maybe target 900 pixel width?

Good thinking here. Thanks for your creativity. Keep the ball rolling.

TJ


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> Keep the ball rolling.


To keep the ball rolling we need the following:

A. We need a thread for the project, a new one would be better. 

B. Several members to help move it along would be good, that can select what categories of pics to include, that can judge the quality of the pics submitted, that will stick with the project. Unfortunately, we can't have all the members make initial judgments on the pics because we'd never get anywhere. However, all the members could vote on three candidate banners for the forum. If we want 3 final banners to vote on, and 6 pics in each banner, then we'd have to find 18 quality pics.

C. We need members to contribute quality pictures for the categories to be included in the banner.

D. We need a volunteer that can make a professional graphic from the selected pics, several versions in fact that can be voted on. 

I'm going to also assume that after all this work, the forum will actually use the banner.


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## norgale

The forum has ,so far,shown no interest in changing this picture. Until they do I doubt that any of this will have any effect on what you have to look at. Pete


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## xrunner

norgale said:


> The forum has ,so far,shown no interest in changing this picture. Until they do I doubt that any of this will have any effect on what you have to look at. Pete


Really?



tjcruiser said:


> "Management" is pretty informal here. Let's see what idea(s) you come up with, we can toss them around here a bit, and them maybe present them to Admin.


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## norgale

If we have to go through all the work that xrunner is talking about then it would be nice to know that ADMIN, whoever that is,is actually interested in making a change. So far I havn't seen anything on here that even suggests that such a change would be considered by anyone who can actually make the change. Have I missed something here? Pete


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## xrunner

norgale said:


> If we have to go through all the work that xrunner is talking about then it would be nice to know that ADMIN, whoever that is,is actually interested in making a change. So far I havn't seen anything on here that even suggests that such a change would be considered by anyone who can actually make the change. Have I missed something here? Pete


I don't know - have we missed something tjcruiser?


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## gunrunnerjohn

I don't see a burning desire to change anything that isn't operationally involved in the forum. They keep it running pretty well, but as far as stuff like this, I'm not sure about the interest.

I can tell you that putting a static graphic in the header is trivial from a vB admin point of view, so that's not the stumbling block, or it shouldn't be.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I can tell you that putting a static graphic in the header is trivial from a vB admin point of view, so that's not the stumbling block, or it shouldn't be.


As well, from an SMF forum standpoint, it's a very simple matter. Just specifying a different file.

I don't want anyone to do any work unless there is some kind of interest shown by the person who could make the change. If tj can't make the change if a good graphic is made, then he at least should contact the person who can and make sure we aren't wasting our time. I just think the current graphic is poor but if they don't want to change it, I'm not busting my a** for nothing. hwell:

I await further input from tj regarding whether the Admin is even interested in this project.


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## tjcruiser

I have no magic vbulletin powers (or tech knowledge) to change something like this, but I'll post a thread in our Admin section and send a PM to Joschik to see if they're interested.

TJ


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> I have no magic vbulletin powers (or tech knowledge) to change something like this, but I'll post a thread in our Admin section and send a PM to Joschik to see if they're interested.
> 
> TJ


OK thanks. I am not going to do any more on this unless they express more than a passing interest.


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## tjcruiser

Question to Admin team now posted. Awaiting response.

Assuming this goes ahead, why do you think we need a new thread? All of the lead-in dialog is here. Can we have two polls in one thread? Maybe not. Hmmm ...

TJ


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> Assuming this goes ahead, why do you think we need a new thread? All of the lead-in dialog is here.


I scanned the whole thread - there's a whole lot of off-topic stuff in it and nothing really ever came of it as far as I can tell. Much of the talk is several years old. This topic is about creating a new banner - not about whether the original one is liked or not. I'd split it off at the point I started making trouble. 



> Can we have two polls in one thread? Maybe not. Hmmm ...


Two? What for?


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## tjcruiser

Well, this thread started with a poll. You'll want a new poll for input/feedback on any proposed new banners.

I have no objection to a new thread, though ... let's hold off until we hear back from Admin, though.

TJ


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## tjcruiser

'Runner, etc.

A quick, enthusiastic green light from Joshchik (Christian) / Admin. He also offered this:



Joschik said:


> I think Wings900.com is doing a good job, their logo rotates with 26 different reiterations (independence day, easter, Bastille day etc.) - check it out


Maybe alternating banner is feasible? I'll defer to you techies (you, G'john, etc.) on that one for bandwidth/resource questions.

TJ


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## xrunner

tjcruiser said:


> 'Runner, etc.
> 
> A quick, enthusiastic green light from Joshchik (Christian) / Admin. He also offered this:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe alternating banner is feasible? I'll defer to you techies (you, G'john, etc.) on that one for bandwidth/resource questions.
> 
> TJ


OK fine. Well, if you really want a rotating banner ... you could simply have 5 or 6 individual 750 x 125 pics that rotate showing different aspects of model railroading - you do not need to incorporate all pics in one picture.

Let's get opinions on that first off. Rotating or not is the question.


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## norgale

I think rotating should be part of this question as long as it's possible. If we have a bunch of rotating pictures on the header then that will eliminate chosing one which of course nobody will agree on. I want to nominate Shays BigBoy picture to be one of the rotating pictures. 
See? Now we have somebody involved who CAN make the change. Carry on guys! Pete


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## xrunner

norgale said:


> I want to nominate Shays BigBoy picture to be one of the rotating pictures.
> See? Now we have somebody involved who CAN make the change. Carry on guys! Pete


That's fine but keep in mind all the pics must have the same aspect ratio. If they don't, then re-sizing them to 750 x 125 will distort them. The other option is to crop out a 750 x 125 area of the original desired picture. That usually works pretty good provided the original is of high quality, the whole pic isn't needed. Does Shay's pic fit either of those options? 

As far as the computer track planning part of the hobby, I can provide a picture for that.

We'd probably need possibly benchwork, operating, computer screen of JMRI, scenery, a nice model train shot (engine & cars), etc. probably not more than 6 - 8 pics.

Also, who here can make the animated gif or other rotating file?

I will provide the computer track planning pic later today.


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## norgale

I know nooothhhhinggggg! about picture size and all that stuff. If Shays picture can be used it would be a good one. All you tachies have to figure that stuff out. Remember I come from the generation of when I picked up the phone I got the operator and said "1836J please" to call home or "301 please" to call my fathers shop.. Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn

tjcruiser said:


> Maybe alternating banner is feasible? I'll defer to you techies (you, G'john, etc.) on that one for bandwidth/resource questions.


The rotating banner shouldn't be an issue, I'm assuming it's there for a day or week, something like that?


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## gunrunnerjohn

You can re-size graphics to make some of the stuff fit, and I'll bet that much of what is posted here actually has much higher resolution "masters" that we can get our hands on from the original poster.


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## gunrunnerjohn

xrunner said:


> Also, who here can make the animated gif or other rotating file?


The pictures are discrete files, the rotation is supplied by the board software.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> The pictures are discrete files, the rotation is supplied by the board software.


OK if it's done by the board software then fine.



gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can re-size graphics to make some of the stuff fit, and I'll bet that much of what is posted here actually has much higher resolution "masters" that we can get our hands on from the original poster.


To make sure we're talking the same thing, it has to be the same aspect ratio or it will look distorted. For example the aspect ratio of a 640 x 480 pic is 1.33, The aspect ratio of 750 x 125 is 6.0. You cannot directly re-size an original 640 x 480 to 750 x 125 without extreme distortion. But, you can crop out a 1.33 aspect ratio area from a 640 x 480 pic and re-size that cropped-out part.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I do understand aspect ratios.  I'm simply talking about getting the stuff in higher resolution and then cutting out what we want, then we can resize that.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I do understand aspect ratios.  I'm simply talking about getting the stuff in higher resolution and then cutting out what we want, then we can resize that.


I was pretty sure you did, I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. Just better to make sure were on the same page at the git-go.

*****

Here's my first contribution. It's a cropped part of my AnyRail file. It's meant to illustrate the use of a computer to design a layout, thus it shows a ruler and other designing elements such as the grade calculation. It's not meant to show the whole file, cropping like that is an art technique. We can do that to other member's files as well if they are not of an aspect ratio of 6:1 (which I doubt any are).


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## gunrunnerjohn

I assumed that none of them would be 6:1 in dimensions, so we'd have to crop them. I think the rotating pictures will work out better than 4-5 panels in one graphic, you can get more detail in. You might consider perhaps two panels in a complete graphic, that probably wouldn't be too busy. Maybe we always make the right panel some cool looking locomotive or rolling stock to make sure people don't get confused about what the forum is about.  I'm guessing that if some neophyte stumbled across the track layout, it might throw him as to the forum contents. Not everyone is as familiar with all aspects of model railroads as we might be. 

Another thing, we should also come up with what width we can use, might as well use all that's allowed.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You might consider perhaps two panels in a complete graphic, that probably wouldn't be too busy. Maybe we always make the right panel some cool looking locomotive or rolling stock to make sure people don't get confused about what the forum is about.


OK let's do 2 per panel.



> Another thing, we should also come up with what width we can use, might as well use all that's allowed.


TJ, 

In order to not waste a lot of work, we need to know the max width that the Admin will allow for the banners - 750, 900, or what?. Please lock down this number and tell us before we do any more work.

Thanks.


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## tjcruiser

I'll jump out on my limb and decree 900 pixel width for now.

As for rotating banner images, I mean rotating every some number of days. I do not mean rotating while you're watching the banner itself. As such, I assume (???) we're talking about a simple library of jpg files, rather than an animated gif file, right ???

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn

Correct, that was my impression too TJ. The exact period of "rotation" is probably not important, the important thing is they're plain graphic files and just get changed periodically, perhaps randomly. When you start getting clever with animation in the GIF, that's where things get more complicated.


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## tjcruiser

Thanks. Understood.


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## xrunner

OK, so to summarize we are going to make 900 x 125 banners. Each banner will consist of two pictures, each 450 x 125 pixels. Each banner will have at least one of the two pics of an obvious model train, either an engine, a rolling stock, or a complete train, so as not to confuse newcomers. The other picture will be of any other part of the hobby - benchwork, computer screen, electrical, scenery, repair, operating, etc.

Do we agree with this?

The only other thing would be that the banners will all have to have an identical text put on them after we get all the banners we need. We can wait until later to do this so all the banners have the same placement.

*ModelTrainForm.com
the complete model train resource*


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## gunrunnerjohn

That sounds cool, and I think it would convey the intent of the forum.

You need to select the graphics so that the text in question shows up in the same place and doesn't overlay something important in the graphic.


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## xrunner

OK here's a trial run @ 900 x 125. Probably not quite good enough but the concept is there. The concept looks like it will be interesting.


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## gunrunnerjohn

I like it, the two are just about the right size graphics. Of course, I see it's slanted to N-scale.


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## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Of course, I see it's slanted to N-scale.


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## norgale

Pictures are fine but text is not. Lets see the items without something written across them. You guys are good. Nice work. Pete
The 900 is great. Could the 125 be bigger?


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## xrunner

norgale said:


> Pictures are fine but text is not. Lets see the items without something written across them.


I'm not sure why you say this. What text, written across what?


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## norgale

It's just that I'd like to see the whole picture without any text across or on it . That's all. Your sample above is super. No text. Pete


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## gunrunnerjohn

The banner can be pretty much any size, but I'm thinking the admins may have a problem with expanding it's height, you can always ask...


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## tjcruiser

Let's stick to 900 x 125 for now.

I agree with importance of trying to incorporate text overlay on the graphic at the outset, to make sure the color / clarity / legibility is OK ... "ModelTrainForum.com".

Text can be a true "transparent" overlay, or it can be a small blocked rectangle in a consistent corner.

We should discuss themes for other images, and how best to pair them up:

layout design
scenery
DCC control systems
restoration / repair
locomotives
rolling stock
etc.


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## xrunner

Who's next? Don't be shy now ...


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## Xnats

I still don't understand the need for a change. Underwear and socks yes. The majority who cared to vote like the current one. I voted don't care for the record 

but

If you are going to be changing stuff. Z N HO OO S O G covers the whole week. Let each sub forum vote what pic they want and only one vote per person. This will keep John and Ed from giving us N scalers some stupid pink and purple engine running through Candy Land 
This way when everyone logs on and sees a Giant G Scale Locomotive well all know what day it is 
A picture should stay the current size, we will all remember when the forum bogs down, no need to get all fancy and slow things down. To many small pics, is just to busy in my opinion. Look at nscale.org, great forum but I never go there just because of all the annoying junk that loads up.


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## xrunner

Xnats said:


> The majority who cared to vote like the current one.


IMHO, it was the wrong question. 

As I've stated earlier, the question should not have been do the members like it or not. The question is, does the graphic serve the intended purpose, which is, does it attract the intended audience and give the impression that this forum is "the complete model train resource.


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## norgale

If anyone can't tell they're in a train forum without the picture then they really are in the wrong place. But ya! I think we do need the title on there somewhere. It does identify the site. pete


----------



## xrunner

norgale said:


> If anyone can't tell they're in a train forum without the picture then they really are in the wrong place. pete


Is the purpose of the picture just to convey that simple fact?

Why not just put up in large letters

*"This is a Model train Forum"*

with no picture at all. :dunno:


----------



## Xnats

I see whats you are getting at X. Do a search under Bing, webcrawler, yahoo, ect " need a model train forum" and you'll come here 

Now lets say I'm new and need some help. I ask "I got a new train for Xmas and it ran great but now it not running to good. Is there anything I can do?"

If no one answers this simple question is a reasonable time, I'm going to look/ ask elsewhere. There are tons of other forums out on the web. Some cover all scales some are specific scales. I don't think the pic makes a difference when someone comes here for the first time. They are looking for help. Once they receive their help they may never come back. Some might look around and like what they see and hang around a bit. We were all clueless at one point and had to research things as we went along. Most are still in this stage, I am Answering questions as they come with good info, sound knowledge, posting how to's or follow along with me threads is what keeps people here. Plus are great personalitiesimp:
It is the current MTF family that keeps people here which is the important part. After being here a while we look at that pic and say it sucks but when we first got here I bet 80% plus did not even look at it or had no opinion of it.
just my thought of course and nothing else


----------



## xrunner

Xnats said:


> After being here a while we look at that pic and say it sucks but when we first got here I bet 80% plus did not even look at it or had no opinion of it.


Well, we don't _really_ know that though. 

What I do know, as a former owner of a forum, is that people are attracted to what looks good, what looks like it will fullfill their needs. After that, if their needs are in fact fullfilled (as per your example, if their question is answered) the experience is fully realized.

Part of getting them to join is presentation. Not all of it is, but part of it is. There is no particular reason that I can see in the current graphic that would get a person to join, _if they are being influenced by visuals_. It's little better than what I told norgale, it's little more than just having text saying "this is a model train forum!". That's my considered opinion having worked on things like this for my own forum.

What I'm trying to achieve is more than that. Why not? Why not give a visual presentation that complements the statement "the complete model train forum"?

What have we got to lose?

As I said, asking members if they like the current graphic doesn't really accomplish a thing. Like you said, the current members are not going to leave, even if they hated the graphic. Hence my opinion, the graphic really has nothing to do with current members, it's for guests who might join (rightly or wrongly) basing part of that decision on visuals. It's really an advertisement for the forum, when you get down to it.

A good discussion eh?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Well, the folks that say they don't care really don't have a dog in this fight. If you don't care, why kick up such a stink?


----------



## Xnats

lol OK John :laugh:
X i finally understand where you are coming from. It might be hard as only one pic will not make or break the page. vBulletin is meant to simple/ none flashy by nature. It sounds more of a makeover is what you are thinking. I'll be quiet for a bit


----------



## xrunner

Here's one with a title. I think it needs a solid background to set it off from the graphics. It does not look good enough to use one the forum because I only have Paint to work with. We need a volunteer to make it up with a more powerful editing program. Does anyone want to volunteer to help in this regard?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I'd put it at the bottom, and maybe not quite as large. It's not like it doesn't stand out anyway, so no reason to cover most of the graphic.


----------



## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I'd put it at the bottom, and maybe not quite as large. It's not like it doesn't stand out anyway, so no reason to cover most of the graphic.


That's fine and easy, but I think we need to move on up to the next phase. We need volunteers to make available suitable pics for the banners, enough to make 6 or so (which would require 12 quality submissions), and a member who can make a professional final product with a decent software program. We may need to start a new thread to ask for pics, to get everyone's attention.

Don't everybody jump in at once now.


----------



## tjcruiser

'Runner,

Wish I hade more PC graphics skills. I'm basic with Paint and Photo Editor. That said, I did a quick cut-paste on a restoration concept ... sort of a sequential snapshot. Not intended to be final, by any means (no room for text as of yet). Just showing a stepwise concept ...

TJ


----------



## Massey

In the spirit of what Xrunner is looking for in a graphic I will say this. it is not my favorite format for forum imagry. It is also a growing trend that seems to be popular today. Here is one from a site related to my work.










The transitions between pics is smooth using transparencies and creative cropping. A banner like this can be created with medium level photoshop skills. 

I honesly would prefer a banner that shows a steam engine, and a modern engine side by side posing on a well made diorama that has the logo on it. Or have the engines posing with a fade out to a CAD track plan for those who like the multi scene idea.

Just a couple of pennies for you all.

Massey

Oh and I do have the photoshop skills to make the banner if needed.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I like the idea of having the text on the left side in it's own frame, that's great!


----------



## xrunner

Massey said:


> In the spirit of what Xrunner is looking for in a graphic I will say this. it is not my favorite format for forum imagry.


Well we can't keep circling the airport forever, we have to land this plane eventually. The only one who can decide what type of graphic to use right now is tj. That's why I said up front, we have to commit to a format first to avoid wasting a lot of time.



> Oh and I do have the photoshop skills to make the banner if needed.


OK thanks.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I personally think the banner that Massey posted was a good example, I like the smooth transitions between frames.

I'd suggest three frames, the left with the forum name, the other two have the chosen graphics.


----------



## xrunner

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I personally think the banner that Massey posted was a good example, I like the smooth transitions between frames.
> 
> I'd suggest three frames, the left with the forum name, the other two have the chosen graphics.


That's fine. 2, 3, 4, tj has to make the call so we can plod onwards.


----------



## norgale

Me too. Just do it. Pete


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I get the impression that TJ is waiting to hear from us. I think he's pretty flexible on the final format as long as it's tasteful and fulfills the intent of the banner. I see that as being identifying the forum and providing a graphic representation of the forum's purpose. I think we're all generally in agreement with that, right?


----------



## norgale

Right!


----------



## tjcruiser

OK, here's my executive-decision call ...

All images to have standard-format "ModelTrainForum.com" text on the left side of the image. Can we compress this to use as little of the 900 width as practical? Maybe split it into two rows, with ModelTrain on the top, and Forum.com on the bottom? It would be nice if we could incorporate the yellow "yield sign" train logo thing that's associated with the URL link. Or, even better ... can anyone meld the ModelTrainForum.com text into some sort of attractive logo and/or incorporate it with our URL icon logo? That would be great if we could. Again, the goal here is to condense the text into the left-most portion of the 900 width.

To the right of that, I think we should have 2 or more "scenes" stiched together, with smooth transitions, if that's possible. I don't want to limit this to only two scenes in all cases, though. Using my "restoration" image as an example, that works well with maybe 3 or 4 scenes. Other banner images (say one with an Anyrail snapshot) might work well with just 2 scenes (plus the MTF text to the left).

Let's push ahead with that format.

NOTE -- I'll be on the road most of Saturday. Don't let my absence preclude any next steps.

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Sounds good, I like the MTF text on the left, that solves the issue of overlaying part of the graphic images. Having some sort of fancy graphic with the letters around it would be cool, maybe a graphic artist will come along. 

I can see having a variable number of panels, I don't have a problem with that. As you say, some topics might lend themselves to more of them.

We'll really spruce up the old forum soon!


----------



## xrunner

I'd say at this point lets start collecting pictures to use - build a collection of decent shots from all aspects of the hobby from members. I can't contribute too many since I have no scenery yet, but I can contribute computer layout shots and perhaps some close ups. If we don't have a portfolio of shots we can't do much.


----------



## [email protected]

It's OK. There's only so much you can do with a free (or close to free) format. I would like to see a bigger brand presence on the banner and more splash on the home page. BUT, I know how expensive good graphics are.

In my first site, I designed all the icons myself. What a pain that was, but the pages were very colorful.

The good part here is, you get right to business. No silly FLASH stuff to wait on.

IMHO
Richard


----------



## norgale

Lets "Get 'er done!" Go ahead amd make the change. You can collect other pictures as you go along and change them out from time to time. Pete


----------



## New Berlin RR

I could always try to switch it up with an image of a blank train with the site address on it so it looks like its used as "advertisement" or what ever...similar to the midnight special loco, but with the site address on it...sorry if this isnt explaining it well for others but im not a very talented guy in the art scene, but I do have ideas that I can try to explain...it could be used as a rotator image for when we just want something simple but effective...


ill see if i can pull off a simple (it may look ugly as I am not very great with photo shop) but I hope this will get the idea across...

kinda like this but a tad better looking font/text wise...may look better on the "side" of a tender as they are usually smooth for the most part...


----------



## DaveW

*no silly flashy stuff*



[email protected] said:


> The good part here is, you get right to business. No silly FLASH stuff to wait on.


so far, I have enjoyed this site immensely. my dino of a laptop locks up a lot on the flashy pages  

love the simplicity of this forum


----------



## trnfn69

I like the idea of a steam and diesel loco side by side,but what about in all scales? Starting with a diesel, then steamer in the next scale up, then diesel and so on all facing forward. Just my 2 pennies.


----------



## redsun64

A better engine could have been used. I personally like the old locomotives.


----------



## steam chaser

I like it,but would be open to seeing it changed up.
Thanks,Don...........Who's back and legs are aching after a long day of putting a frog in and a couple rails and guaging the lower yard tracks.


----------



## xrunner

steam chaser said:


> I like it,but would be open to seeing it changed up.


I'm still game but I gave up. Some offered to help, but in general the reaction was ... Meh.


----------



## tjcruiser

'Runner,

I'll help with the implementation, if you and/or others opt to work on the graphics at some point.

TJ


----------



## gc53dfgc

I was thinking something like a three engine types on top, then a freight train going underneath them with "ModelTrainForum.com" and another passing passenger train below it with the slogan "The complete model train source".

I think I could get decent enough pictures to pull it all off. Its just I don't own any electric based engines so I would need a picture from someone else. Preferably with the electric engine at a right facing position, a mighty steam engine facing front and then a left facing diesel engine to the side. The side shot would not be like a true side shot but more an angled shot as if it was diverging from the main track where the steam engine is coming head on at you.

I have access to Photoshop so I will get some pictures and start on a rough idea sometime this weekend if that helps.


----------



## xrunner

gc53dfgc said:


> I was thinking something like a three engine types on top, then a freight train going underneath them with "ModelTrainForum.com" and another passing passenger train below it with the slogan "The complete model train source".
> 
> I think I could get decent enough pictures to pull it all off. Its just I don't own any electric based engines so I would need a picture from someone else. Preferably with the electric engine at a right facing position, a mighty steam engine facing front and then a left facing diesel engine to the side. The side shot would not be like a true side shot but more an angled shot as if it was diverging from the main track where the steam engine is coming head on at you.
> 
> I have access to Photoshop so I will get some pictures and start on a rough idea sometime this weekend if that helps.


OK thanks. The agreed upon banner size was 900 x 125. Play with it and see if you can cram all you want in vertically - it might be tough.


----------



## gc53dfgc

I have the first design cranked out. Now this was using real locomotives and drawn background so I am gonna need matching photos of these engine types at the same angles to make a model version of it. I can also change these engines out for all modern ones, through the ages ones, or an all one type if so desired. I have about a month left till I will no longer be working with photoshop so I need the pictures (larger than 900 by 125 at least) put up on this thread so I can get the model one done. I also have one more design style I am finishing up.


----------



## xrunner

That's cool! Didn't expect that type of design. It's way better than what's up there now. :thumbsup:


----------



## Xnats

It is very nice GC, the design is way better then what is here now. Can you change the backdrop to say a 60% transparency, it would help make the wording easier to read? Maybe?


----------



## gc53dfgc

The background is just an industrial skyline drawing I found. I am hoping someone will get a shot of an industrial layout background for me to work with so I don't need to get permission for its use.

I could make that background anything I wanted it to be but I am thinking a skyline will go with the general feel better.


----------



## tjcruiser

GC,

I like it! Nice concept. I like the font/placement of MTF, too.

Minor suggestion:

The steamer front looks a bit too truncated to me (overwritten with MTF, etc.). Can you drop this down and/or add some lighter space left/right to make this stand out a bit more? As it is, it looks more like some emblem or badge at first glance, than a steam loco.

Hoping others chime in here with thoughts, model photos from proper angle, too!

TJ


----------



## [email protected]

I like it. It has all the Art Deco traits; long lines, hard angles...groovy.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Looks great. One suggestion. Perhaps make the forum name slightly smaller, and also have it totally within the graphic. The way it is now, it looks like the tops of the letters are cut off.


----------



## gc53dfgc

I can do that.

I moved the steam engine down a little and also shrunk it a little more, I also made a version with steam coming out the stack and sides to give it yet another look, I am not sure if I like it but will finish the original with the new ideals, the steam one, and then my other idea and hopefully have them uploaded on Friday or Saturday.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Having more of a profile of the steamer is a good idea, I was thinking that as well.


----------



## gc53dfgc

I gave it as much as I can in this new one without it being out of proportion or not head on so well see how it turns out.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

The only thing is, you didn't post it so we could see what it looks like.


----------



## gc53dfgc

I forgot to take my flashdrive in to get them off the computer, and they some aren't done yet.


----------



## Big Ed

gc53dfgc said:


> I forgot to take my flashdrive in to get them off the computer, and they some aren't done yet.



Good work, though I would like to see more of a Steam Loco then what you have showing.

Good work the job is yours.:thumbsup:


Now, no more excuses get back to work!


----------



## gc53dfgc

Did a few more, I also have another design in the works but have to start it over because I don't have access to Photoshop any more or at least not yet.


----------



## Big Ed

Still not enough of the Steam Locomotive showing.


Since we are a multi scale site maybe a mixture of all the scales would work.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I put a little space between them so it was easier to get the effect of a single graphic.

How about one with a steamer on one side and the diesel on the other side? Those are the two predominant models, I think it makes the point.


----------



## gc53dfgc

I will take all that into consideration, like I said I have another version in the works it jsut may take a little longer.


----------



## tjcruiser

GC,

Nice work.

I'll echo the thought of a steamer on one side, and diesel on the other, though I can imagine that you have to hunt a bit for the appropriate graphics.

Of those above, I like the position of the steamer boiler front on the 4th image, though I do think that the "image" of the steamer is still not as prominent as I would hope.

Not trying to discourage you at all. Rather, I think it's great that your continuing down this creative path!

TJ


----------



## gc53dfgc

tjcruiser said:


> GC,
> 
> Nice work.
> 
> I'll echo the thought of a steamer on one side, and diesel on the other, though I can imagine that you have to hunt a bit for the appropriate graphics.
> 
> Of those above, I like the position of the steamer boiler front on the 4th image, though I do think that the "image" of the steamer is still not as prominent as I would hope.
> 
> Not trying to discourage you at all. Rather, I think it's great that your continuing down this creative path!
> 
> TJ


That is interesting because the fourth one is the first one I posted here while the one with the steam coming from the engine is the newest.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Another suggestion. The lettering could be a bit smaller and still get the point across.


----------



## tjcruiser

gc53dfgc said:


> That is interesting because the fourth one is the first one I posted here while the one with the steam coming from the engine is the newest.


Hmm ... you're right ... stuff that tricks the eye, I guess. Perhaps something between 2nd and 4th?

But a steamer in sideview would top the list, IMO.

Cheers,

TJ


----------



## New Berlin RR

gc53dfgc said:


>



I like this one the best! It looks so proper with the old and the new!


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

This thread kinda' died, maybe it's time to revive it?


----------



## David-Stockwell

gunrunnerjohn said:


> This thread kinda' died, maybe it's time to revive it?


I just saw this thread. Don't browse around that much. Anyway I voted, Don't care.  but decided to add my thoughts. Place all the engines on the same angle, with each one a little farther back than the leading engine, then you see about the same amount of each one. Ive seen pictures in Model Railroader with the same engine showing in the same perspective and showing all the various scales. there all quite visible then. that would solve big eds suggestion of more steam engine.

Cheers, Dave


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

That's a good idea David, I think the folks doing the graphic lost interest.


----------



## David-Stockwell

gunrunnerjohn said:


> That's a good idea David, I think the folks doing the graphic lost interest.


Thanks gunrunner,
My eyes are not what they used to be and I had to look several times at each of the pictures to even see a steam locomotive. Then I said Ah, Ha it's a straight head on shot. I first thought it was just some strange symbol:laugh:

Dave


----------



## Southern

there should be a Southern Steam Engine in there somewhere.


----------



## gc53dfgc

Shoot, I forgot about it over the summer and have not had access to Photoshop till a month ago. I think the only thing I was waiting on was actual photos of model trains form people on the forum that fitted those angles. Once I have those I can finish up the graphic.


----------



## john65002

*Just Some New Ideas*

Just playing around with some photos. Trying to get them into banner form.


----------



## DJTrains

"Do you like the header graphic at the top?"

There are millions of different pretty pictures one could make to be the header graphic. But from my perspective the main purpose of it isn't to be cute (although that helps).

The header is the site's store front, and in a way, it's location. In business we know it's location location location. The same is somewhat true of internet forums, etc., and to a large degree the header is the location.

The most important thing about a header is it should be simple enough to stick in the mind. The current header is perfect in this regard. It says model trains and is easy to remember. I left this site for a couple of years and found it again by recognizing this header. I'm sure many of us who come and go (and forget the exact name) find this site again by this very header.

I'm now a professional artist and I'm learning not to make my art too complex because in doing so the art becomes less memorable and therefore less likely to become famous. Busy art is usually a very bad thing. People don't like that which is difficult to remember. 

For a copy of this sermon, send a love gift of....LOL


----------



## santafealltheway

SOme thoughts.


----------



## john65002

All I was doing with the pictures I posted was messing around. I just made those for fun.


----------



## gc53dfgc

Good start, I like the four that santafe did but they are of real trains and legal matters would need to be taken care of to use them. John is on the right track, you just need to get them to banner size, as for me I still need to buy some sort of electric locomotive if I am going to take the all the pictures myself to make the banner I had started. I found a layout suitable, have a nice diesel, and also have a brand new massive steam engine on the way. I just do not own an electric type.


----------



## john65002

Sometimes I wonder if I should put my real name in my username???:stroke:
My real name is Adam. The john part in john65002 is the first 4 letters of my last name.


----------



## tjcruiser

According to your profile, your first name is "Aedam" !

Seems to me you have an identity crisis going on ... might want to simplify things on your end!

TJ


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

We can fix your user name if you like, and even spell your name correctly in the profile.


----------



## Big Ed

Since this topic has been discussed here, we must have been through 20 administrators and changed hands 2 or 3 times.

Someone should find out if the ideal is still doable.


----------



## tjcruiser

Yes, Ed ... I believe the banner image can easily be updated.

But it's a case of many cooks in the kitchen as to what it should be. I've stayed in the background on this one. If there's some large concensus as to any proposed change, I'll be happy to help implement it. It sould, after all, be a member-driven banner intro.

We've had lots of dialog / ideas in this thread over some long time, but each sort of fizzles. If someone wants to pick up the ball and run with it some more, that's fine by me.

TJ


----------



## john65002

Just was a typo. I know my name is Adam, not Aedam.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

john65002 said:


> Just was a typo. I know my name is Adam, not Aedam.


And now it is.


----------



## john65002

Thanks!


----------



## wsorfan4003

Switch that CP Rail with a Wisconsin and Southern, then we'd be talking... LOL


----------



## MacDaddy55

wsorfan5593 said:


> Switch that CP Rail with a Wisconsin and Southern, then we'd be talking... LOL


Spoken like a true Wisconsinite!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh::thumbsup: Wow has it been that long since B&M or was it Two Rail put up the CP logo?? Its been a while!!


----------



## Big Ed

john65002 said:


> Thanks!


You will still be called John, I bet.

I don't have a clue as to why.


----------



## wsorfan4003

MacDaddy55 said:


> Spoken like a true Wisconsinite!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh::thumbsup: Wow has it been that long since B&M or was it Two Rail put up the CP logo?? Its been a while!!


Thankfully Wisconsin and Southern kept its name after being bought out by Watco..


----------



## Bree

It's not what I would call 'eye catching' and it is a bit to much grey for my personal liking. It could also do with going across the width of the screen - not just sitting all lost to one side.


----------



## New Berlin RR

tjcruiser said:


> Yes, Ed ... I believe the banner image can easily be updated.
> 
> But it's a case of many cooks in the kitchen as to what it should be. I've stayed in the background on this one. If there's some large concensus as to any proposed change, I'll be happy to help implement it. It sould, after all, be a member-driven banner intro.
> 
> We've had lots of dialog / ideas in this thread over some long time, but each sort of fizzles. If someone wants to pick up the ball and run with it some more, that's fine by me.
> 
> TJ


well if thats the case I may try my hand at making one (albieit it will be somewhat simple) but im willing to try and get a new banner up there or add to it so we can maybe have a dynamic type banner that will change periodotically as people visit the site or what ever...


----------



## DJTrains

I could do an abstract art illustration for you but I doubt you'd like it.

If you can't decide on a new storefront, why not gradually work into a new one? Just do some colorizing of your existing graphic. Lose the gray and rust antique the cars, etc. Whatever.

This way you'd still maintain your recognizable graphic but brighten it up. Then later maybe do some more upgrading. Change in smaller steps rather than one big radical change.

Just another bad idea from the peanut gallery.


----------



## Michael J

If you just want to change the background image every so often and keep the same type, I can help with that. Here are a few samples using my own photos, or you could send me photos to use. I could quickly build up a supply to send to you.

version 1

version 2

version 3


----------



## Big Ed

Michael J said:


> If you just want to change the background image every so often and keep the same type, I can help with that. Here are a few samples using my own photos, or you could send me photos to use. I could quickly build up a supply to send to you.
> 
> version 1
> 
> version 2
> 
> version 3



I like the first one. :thumbsup:

CNJ.:thumbsup:


----------



## DJTrains

Better yet, just setup the same scene and take a new photo minus the gray/color scheme. Or you could use a different train only employ the same layout and font. This way there would be a stronger possibility that non-consistent users would recognize this forum. Or you could go with a whole new graphic header and put your old graphic under it in reduced size so people could make the connection. After a year or so you could probably totally remove the old storefront. But as anyone who does big business online will tell you, don't change your index page layout unless absolutely necessary.


----------



## Michael J

Point me to some photos that we have the rights to use and I will put the text on like I did. Maybe change them out once a month or so.


----------



## alman

Michael J said:


> Point me to some photos that we have the rights to use and I will put the text on like I did. Maybe change them out once a month or so.



Option #4.

Why not just leave it as it is !


----------



## cr123890

*i like it*

maybe like someone said earlier like one that refreshes and is different


----------



## tjcruiser

Yes ... the forum banner pic.


----------



## keitaro

needs color and lengthier


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

I think the "drive" for changing the banner has faded.


----------



## eljefe

Yeah, why is this still stickied?


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Good point, I think I'll deal with that right now.


----------



## wsorfan4003

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Good point, I think I'll deal with that right now.


How long has that graphic been there GRJ? 

Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Big Ed

wsorfan4003 said:


> How long has that graphic been there GRJ?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk 2


Since the beginning, around 2006.


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A long time.


----------



## Big Ed

Too long.

Out with the old and in with the new. :smokin:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

big ed said:


> Out with the old and in with the new. :smokin:


All you have to do is come up with a better one.


----------



## Big Ed

gunrunnerjohn said:


> All you have to do is come up with a better one.













There you go, change it. :smokin:


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

Who says that one is better? Do I hear a vote?


----------



## Prewar Pappy

*Time To Update?*

How about a photo with a Genset Demonstrator? 
Just A Thought?

God Bless,
"Pappy"


----------



## gunrunnerjohn

A pre-war guy suggesting a Genset? What's the world coming to?


----------



## norgale

Anything American would be better.


----------



## Prewar Pappy

*Does This Make You Happy?*



gunrunnerjohn said:


> A pre-war guy suggesting a Genset? What's the world coming to?


John,
How about an early Lionel #33 pulling #'s 11, 12 & 17.:smilie_daumenpos: norgale, they're American.

IMO A Genset is better than what's there now.

"Pappy"


----------



## Lee Willis

How about a picture of a bunch of old geezers arguing and bickering over which new photo would be better in place of the one now. 

I vote for a photo of a mid-30s Marx tinplate 0-4-0 set, but I really suggest we leave the one that is there now in place: you will never get even a plurality behind any one image.


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## Old_Hobo

Well, until a new member resurrected a necro-thread that was over 2 years old, there was no issue about this.....

So, yeah, just leave it....


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## CTValleyRR

norgale said:


> Anything American would be better.


As an insult to all of our non-American members, perhaps?


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## MtRR75

My preference would be for a steamer, since that is what I run. But I realize that this is my own personal bias.

I like Big Ed's suggestion -- mainly because it emphasizes more of the aspects of the hobby. The current one shows mostly a train (and a little track). Ed's shows train, track, scenery and some structures (and even a figure if you look hard). I only wish that the structures in the background were more visible/identifiable.


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## Old_Hobo

Would it really be a good idea to change it when only 27% of us want it changed.....?


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## Water Stop

How come you people can see the graphic and I can't?

w.s.


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## MtRR75

Click on "View Poll Results" on the right side of the box with the poll choices in it -- at the top of the page.


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## Water Stop

I clicked on "View Poll Results" and I got the Poll Results...but still no picture.

How about this instead?

W.S.


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## Old_Hobo

Water Stop said:


> How come you people can see the graphic and I can't?


The graphic in question is the one at the very top of every page.....the one with the CP switcher.....


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## gunrunnerjohn

Water Stop said:


> How come you people can see the graphic and I can't?
> 
> w.s.


We hid it.


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## longle

MtRR75 said:


> My preference would be for a steamer, since that is what I run. But I realize that this is my own personal bias.


Same here but mox nix.


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## grashley

I voted yes, but more color or motion would be nice. PLEASE KEEP THE GT BOXCAR, THOUGH!!


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## norgale

Water Stop said:


> I clicked on "View Poll Results" and I got the Poll Results...but still no picture.
> 
> How about this instead?
> 
> W.S.


Hell yes! The dog is super and the lady ain't bad either. Better than a foreign railroad.


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## Old_Hobo

Those damn foreigners! :laugh:


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## norgale

oops, sorry Hobo. ☺
Maybe a lash up of BNSF and CP would do the trick.


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## bigdodgetrain

time to change it


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## MichaelE

norgale said:


> Hell yes! The dog is super and the lady ain't bad either. Better than a foreign railroad.


I guess a Deutsche Bahn train banner is out then...?


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## Panther

Of all the Classic and beautiful locomotives that have ever been built.. WHY the Cab forward.

Dan


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## Big Ed

The poll up top needs to be cleared it is from 2008 ish.

A lot who voted are not here anymore.
Needs a new poll.


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## MattR

Yes it does. Start a fresh poll.


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## gunrunnerjohn

Poll Started, I'm going to close this thread.

https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=186152


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