# Hello, Newbie here, help needed



## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

hello, i recently unearthed my mothers family trains. there are a pretty good amount of pieces and i am extremely confused as to what goes with what and how old they are and if they are worth anything. i havent located the track yet so that would be something i would have to get along with the transformer. i found a transformer but i have no idea as to which set it belonged to. i am wanting to get them serviced and repaired to at least get one or two running. it would mean the world to her to get them going again. i live in Mississippi and am having a really hard time locating a service shop or a dealer that can perform repair here locally. im in the Jackson, MS area. Can anyone help me identify the pieces and then locate what is missing to get at least maybe one running. also if anyone knows of a repair shop in MS or one that doesnt charge a ton that would be excellent. again hello, and sorry for the huge question right off the bat. 

here are photos of everything i have, if someone can help me identify what goes with what as my mom cant remember anymore. also if anyone knows anyone locally or a reasonable repair shop that would be great, some of these locos are in pretty bad shape i think. i dont even know if they are worth repairing, i know they are to my mom, but they may not be cost effective to do so. 

thanks again and i cant wait to get a couple going so i can start to enjoy these with my mom.

ps i have never owned nor operated a train set let alone these older ones.


i assume these went together since they had the same name and were made of tin. this loco is also the only one i think could run with just a simple lube job and cleaning.



















These following pictures are where i get confused as to what goes with what and if anything is in salvageable condition. sorry for all the pictures 





























































































































































































































































Thanks in advance for any help and advice.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You have some great post-war trains there, looks like multiple sets. They're certainly worth something, and since your mother wants to get them running, they may be priceless. 

You'll obviously need track, the cheapest option will probably be O-27 track. That's in plentiful supply at a rule on eBay. The transformer should work for any of the locomotives, how about a picture of what you have?


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

thanks, yea i will take a picture of the transformer when i get home from work. how or where does one go about seeking repair on these locomotives? i can clean the cars they arent to difficult but some of the locos are really in need of parts and such. i cant locate anyone here in MS and am having a hard time finding info in general. the local HobbyTown USA was useless and the only lead i had was a train club here locally but they seem to have disbanded. 

do you happen to know which cars go with which locomotive? i assume the yellow stuff goes together lol but outside of that im a little confused as to what goes with what.

also can you post a link to a good complete track set from ebay so i have a reference to go off of.

are there youtube video tutorials or picture tutorials on how to clean these locomotives and maybe rewire them i could possibly give them a shot but i would really like to get atleast the oldest/most valuable one repaired professionally. how much does repair run and out of the locomotives i have which one would you guys consider the most "valuable" my mom is partial to the yellow loco me personally i like the 1664 loco, it just looks aggressive to me. 

thanks for your response and i will get a picture of the transformer as soon as i get home.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tew,

Welcome to the forum. That's a great collection of old stuff ... prewar, mostly ... mix of Lionel and Marx. O-gauge.

I'm heading out the door, but can chime in later with some info on models, history, etc.

TJ


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

ok thanks, im completely lost lol. but i know i want to at least try to get one locomotive running down a track.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The commodore may run with some cleaning. The 253 and the 259 have bad wheels. The 1664 may run after cleaning the 238e is the best and is in good condition. It has good wheels for a start. Try the Marx commodore and the 1664 Lionel is a good starter before you tackle the 238e. That is a fine collection. Look up 259 on searches and you will find plenty of info.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes, most are prewar. I looked real quick, I will have to look better when I get more time. Welcome to the site.

I wish my Grandma had something like that when she was on this earth.
I probably would have got them when she passed on.

Nice.:thumbsup:


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

You're just down the road from me (I'm in Memphis). Do you get this way ever? There is a place here. I know a shop in New Orleans but I don't know if he does any repairs.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

A quick look shows you will need a bunch of wheels for the engines.

Too bad you didn't know a little about working on them, it is hard to say which engine would be the easiest to fix with out seeing more.

Some of the cars look like all they need is a good cleaning and some oil on the axles.

I have limited time right now, 
I will check your treasure out more tomorrow.:thumbsup:


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## broox (Apr 13, 2012)

some of those look very cool (and well loved!)

enjoy them


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

The stuff all looks like it is servicable condition except for the loco with the broken wheels. If you want to get it running quickly, get some 5W-20 motor oil and lube the locos and wheels on the cars. For the locos, lube all the axle bearings, the gears, the shafts the gears turn on, and both ends of the armature shaft. If it slides or rotates lube it.


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

this is the transformer i have.





































ok i looked at the marx loco and it has a broken contact on the bottom and what looks like a random loose wire inside  

the two 238e locos would make a complete single 238e, both have one wheel that has a broken post piece on them. other than that the one that was painted red seems to be in better shape. it moves by hand better than the other. 

the 1664 also has a broken contact on the bottom and loose wires, it is also missing a wheel

the 253 also has broken wires and since it appears to be the oldest is really showing wear and locked up pretty good

the 259e rolls pretty good but again it has some loose wiring and such. 

i spoke to the local hobbytown usa and they said that there is a lionel certified repair man that if i drop my loco off he can look at it and give me an estimate on fixing it. im afraid it would cost a ton tho. i just dont have much knowledge on how these locos were supposed to run. i would think that giving him the two 238e locos might be cheaper since he could use parts from each other to make one solid locomotive.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

KarenORichmond said:


> You're just down the road from me (I'm in Memphis). Do you get this way ever? There is a place here. I know a shop in New Orleans but I don't know if he does any repairs.


Its in Kenner ,really,but most people consider it New Orleans,my cousin does all of mikes repairs for him, Its Mikes train shop [504]466-8531
........Mike


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Big Mike said:


> Its in Kenner ,really,but most people consider it New Orleans,my cousin does all of mikes repairs for him, Its Mikes train shop [504]466-8531
> ........Mike


how much does he generally charge ?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tew,

Unfortunately, old Lionel cast wheels often get brittle with extensive cracking. The good news is that reproduction wheels are available, and then can be replaced.

The 238 locos are very desirable ... larger, higher-end for Lionel's prewar fleet. Based upon Ray Loewy's real-life Penn K4 locos. Unless things with your pair are really bad, I would caution you from stripping one to fix/salvage the other. Parts are available ... you might get both running without too much effort. Old motors get gunked up and stiff ... a good cleaning with GooGone (via pipe cleaners, soft tooth brushes) and a lube with 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil might get the motors turning smoothly by hand, and then running again. I'm not sure what you meant by the "broken post" on the wheel ... the drive wheels of the 238 don't have integral cast-in crank studs (or posts), but rather screw-on nickel spacers that are used to mount the drive rod components. Are you saying that the casting in way of where the screw would thread in is broken? Some JB Weld epoxy here could get you running again.

The 238 shell with red has been repainted, of course. The all-black one might be original. Most 238's were gunmetal gray, though Lionel did produce black ones in 1939-1940. The shells would look great stripped and repainted.

Great source for parts: www.ttender.com ... Jeff Kane.

Regards,

TJ


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

thanks for the link TJ. the jb weld should work for the wheel its broken off inside the wheel so im not sure how it will work out. the connecting rods (i think that is what they are called) have missing parts on each 238. im also trying to think of the most cost effective way to get one repaired and working. i figure if i can produce the majority of parts for one working locomotive i can at least get one going. then when money is more prevalent i can get the second repaired and running also. i took the shell of the black one and it is in pretty bad shape. it has bent up motor pieces and the wiring is really shot. i will snap some pictures of each and let you guys see it. thanks again for all the help and i for sure am going to get one running soon lol come hell or high water.

ps is there a way to basically jump start an engines motor without track? i have that transformer picture above and am wondering if there is a way to test if my cleaning job worked without having track with lock ons since im missing those pieces. 

if anyone knows of a person selling a cheap complete track set maybe with a transformer let me know. i keep eyeing ebay but havent seen anything recently.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

There is an easy way to repair the wiring which is foolproof. Do not remove the old wires. Break the insulation off of the wire. Get some shrink tubing of the appropriate diameter. Unsolder one end of each wire one at a time. Put the shrink tubing over the wire and shrink it with a match or cigarette lighter. Then reattach the end you took loose. Doing one wire at a time should eliminate wiring errors. I use this approach on all of my old locos.

If you try to replace the wire that goes to the pickup, you will discover it is very difficult.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

You can jumpstart the motor simply ...

Run a power lead to one of the the center roller pickups in the middle/bottom of the loco, and other to one of the drive wheels or the motor frame itself. Apply some AC voltage (12 to 18 V AC or so), and see what you get.

For the auto-direction-reversing e-unit to work, the loco should be held upright. (The e-unit is gravity dependent.)

There's a lever on top of the loco that will engage or disengage the e-unit. When engaged, the loco should alternate with each powerup as follows: fwd,neutral,reverse,neutral ... When disengaged, the loco will stay in its last setting ... which could be neutral! So, if you see no signs of life, flip the lever over, and try again.

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

servoguy said:


> The stuff all looks like it is servicable condition except for the loco with the broken wheels. If you want to get it running quickly, get some 5W-20 motor oil and lube the locos and wheels on the cars. For the locos, lube all the axle bearings, the gears, the shafts the gears turn on, and both ends of the armature shaft. If it slides or rotates lube it.



When you tell them "oil the wheels" you ought add for the new guys, not the actual wheel, but where the wheel rides on the axle.

Someone was going to oil up the whole wheel one time.


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## KarenORichmond (Nov 14, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> Its in Kenner ,really,but most people consider it New Orleans,my cousin does all of mikes repairs for him, Its Mikes train shop [504]466-8531
> ........Mike


Yep, that's it! My family still is in New Orleans area and my Dad has shopped for me at that store. We stop in it when we get down there.


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

SUCCESS, Mine eyes have seen the glory!!!!!!!!! the Marx Vandy LIVES !!!!! lol it moves and pretty good actually. it looks like all it needs is some lube and a cleaning and it will be good to go. 

the lionels tho  

the 253 and one 238e get current and you can hear the hum of the motor but dont budge so im thinking they may be just gunked up with stuff i dont know  

the other 238e the 1664 and the 259e get no spark or movement at all.

its so rewarding to see one of these moving lol  






here is my broken contact tho


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Don't run it anymore.
They are not that hard to work on, take the shell off and clean her up.
The gears look real dry on that and I see a lot of gunk build up.
Take the plunge, there are many here that will help along the way.
Do it yourself.

Just wipe the shell down with a mild mix of something like Dawn dish detergent and a rag.
If you want to try, we will add more. 

The hardest part will be reconnecting the wire, do you know how to solder? Do you know anyone that solders?


Your cars?, a lot of them I would just clean them up and and add a little oil to the axles.
Some of them have a nice patina, leave them as is.

Take the plunge.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Well I looked again.

Maybe the Commodore would look nice with a new coat of red paint for the holidays.:thumbsup:

Can you spray a can of spray paint?

Look at some of TJ's threads, if you can spray some paint, you can make it look somewhat new, if you want.


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

big ed said:


> Well I looked again.
> 
> Maybe the Commodore would look nice with a new coat of red paint for the holidays.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...



Yea I know how to solder and spray a can of spray paint lol. What would be best to strip the shell of the commodore? While I have the shell off should I replace the wiring I see with updated wire? 

Where can I find a replacement contact piece?

What is used to clean the motor I read some where you can pour something on the motor, let it set and all the gunk would just run out. Sounds to good to be true. 

Yea majority of the cars look nice so I will just lube up the axels. 

My next task is to find a loop of track lol


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Just on my way out the door ...

Soak metal shells in a bubbly-bath of heavy-duty Oven Cleaner foam (Easy Off, Walmart-brand, etc.) to remove old paint. Rinse and repeat. Buff down aftewards with wire brush, ScotchBrite pads, etc. Prime & paint.

GooGone for degunking ... works great. Safe on metal, wires, etc.

TJ


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

Best place to buy track is at a swap meet. Tubular track is almost free.


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## servoguy (Jul 10, 2010)

I have used Brake Kleen to clean motors. I would not use it on paint, but I don't think it will harm paint.


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

servoguy said:


> Best place to buy track is at a swap meet. Tubular track is almost free.


I don't think they have any swap meets locally, or at least I haven't heard of any.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Tewhitte said:


> I don't think they have any swap meets locally, or at least I haven't heard of any.


I just got an order in today from Jeff,
http://www.ttender.com/

What is the number on that Commodore? 
He should have most of what you need.

Take the shell off get into the engine.

Should only be a few screws holding it on. Just put them in a baggie and label where they go so you don't get everything mixed up. Do that to all the parts or use something like the paper drinking cups for a bathroom and label them.
Take notes as you take it apart, you should be able to use it form Christmas if you start now. It looks like it runs fairly well.

Got to go, later.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Second look at the Commodore Vanderbilt it looks like you might have the Marx loco?

It looks just like this one,


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Yea mine is a Marx it looks just like that blue one. If I can find some track I will try to get it going for Xmas !


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Will goo gone gel work ? I was able to find the easy off heavy duty stove cleaner how do I strip the paint with it ?


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Tewhitte said:


> Will goo gone gel work ? I was able to find the easy off heavy duty stove cleaner how do I strip the paint with it ?



Did you take the shell off?

Does the name come off too?

Just spray the oven cleaner on and let it do it's job. Afterwards wash off, if needed do it again.

I sure someone else will chime in TJ has some threads doing it. Here is one from T Man he puts it in a bag.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2959&highlight=oven+cleaner

When TJ said wire brush it off, he meant with a Dremal tool and a stainless steal brush, watch your eyes it spits bristles.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Get a couple of heavy throw-away tinfoil lasagna pans (two layers a must). Or, an old glass lasagna pan.

Put your shell parts in the pan (with all metal trim removed), and spray the oven clean foam liberally. Cover with tin foil, and let sit for a few hours. Best to do this in a garage, but avoid cold weather, if pssible ... it'll slow the cleaner process considerably.

After time, remove the shell pieces .. rinse and rub with a ScotchBrite pad. Dry. Buff to shiny with a stainless-steel Dremel brush. Should be ready to prime after that. Get all the nooks and crannies clean, prior to primer.

TJ


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Ok, how do I clean the motor with goo gone? Can I just pour it all over and let it run out or should I just use cotton balls and clean each piece ? Also can you use goo gone on the wheels ?


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Use q tips.

Try a screw driver on the wheels first. It may be thick. Scotchbrite is better for the wheels but will work.
For rust a wire wheel will be needed.


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

ok, i think i got the engine looking a little better  i used goo gone and a ton of qtips and cotton balls on it. i put a couple dabs of oil in all the right places and it is way smoother now.

my question now tho is, am i hooking it up right. i hooked all the wires up to the transformer and put them in the lock on but when i put the train on the track it doesnt move. are the wheels not clean enough to get a good current yet? is that missing contact on the bottom the problem? i cant figure it out. i know the transformer works tho because when i attempted to "jump start" the engine it worked.

















is it normal for the engine to move this fast? 


the EasyOff worked like a champ, in a little over 3 hours all the paint appeared to be striped off. Is there an easier way to get the rust off because using a dremel with one batter will take forever lol.


















also how do you hook up the light on the Marx Vandy. i saw where the original was just hanging there and it was hooked into a lock on looking thing on the loco. when i put a new wire and bulb on there it wouldnt light up. also what does the proper light assembly look like for this loco.

i was able to add a couple wires and a new bulb and get half of my Lionel Spotlight 820 to work haha.

















for the life of me i couldnt get the other side to work 

all in all i think it is a ok start, i got the paint stripped and i know the transformer works, now i just have to figure out how to get it to move on the track.

ps is it generally frowned upon custom painting these things. i have a pretty neat paint job in mind since my dad used to work for the Illinois Central Gulf Railroad.
maybe something similar to this 









Thanks for all the help guys.


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## Kwikster (Feb 22, 2012)

Tewhitte said:


> my question now tho is, am i hooking it up right. i hooked all the wires up to the transformer and put them in the lock on but when i put the train on the track it doesnt move.
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys.











Ah no, that lock-on is installed wrong. The "spring clip" (red) snaps on the center rail. The "V" (blue) shaped one slips against the outer rail and pivoting it upwards, then locks in place. The "V" is supposed to hook over the rail. (Hoping to get a digital camera for Christmas  ) Basically, it needs to be moved one rail south of current position. As it's currently done, it would be a "dead short" so no power will get to the train, and without some type of protection, could burn the transformer.

Carl


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

Your making progress. A green scotchbrite pad will do wonders on rust, or sanpaper above the 200 range. I even use rubbing compound too. Another item used for cleaning are old socks!!!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes the clip is on wrong it goes on like this,
(the middle picture)
It doesn't matter on which outer rail you use, the connection is complete through the wheels for the outer rails.










That is from the site I gave you,
Here,
http://thortrains.net/manual2.htm


That site has a lot of basic things for the new Railroader person.

The engine looks a lot better, you did solder the wire back on right?

While you were cleaning it an air compressor comes in handy for blowing gunk out of the hard to get to spots.

Clean wheels and clean track greatly help also.
A thread for clean track,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2433&highlight=tubular+track

Red will look nice.:thumbsup:


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Man I feel like an idiot lol. I can't believe I put the lock on on wrong haha. The track is brand new, I got a brand new piece from the hobby shop but unfortunately they don't have the right curve pieces to complete a loop in the space I have


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

It has been done before, don't feel bad.

That is why I posted the link I did, you ought to take a look at it.
There is a ton of basic help there, I go there once and a while I am sure others use it too.
They have some nice layout plans also.
A ton of info there.

http://thortrains.net/index.htm

But as always ask here if you need to.

At least you didn't put it on upside down.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If it weren't for newbie's, we'd have nothing to do, don't feel bad.  Every journey starts with a single step.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

I laugh at myself when I go back and look at some of my early posts ... boy, was I clueless!

Still am, on many things ... but learning a bit more here every day, thanks to the contributions of our members!

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If it weren't for newbie's, we'd have nothing to do, don't feel bad.  Every journey starts with a single step.


You sound like Neil Armstrong.:laugh:




tjcruiser said:


> I laugh at myself when I go back and look at some of my early posts ... boy, was I clueless!
> 
> Still am, on many things ... but learning a bit more here every day, thanks to the contributions of our members!
> 
> TJ


I was going to say something about that in another post, but felt it would be best not to say anything.
Nice guy that I am.

You the TIN MAN now.:thumbsup:


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Haha thanks guys. 

What is the proper light assembly for this loco? I keep finding a couple different ones also how should the light be wired up? Thanks


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tew,

Back to your Vandy loco shell ... nice job on the paint strip. Gotta get rid of those "rust veins", though. Go to town with a ScotchBrite pad, a brass wheel brush mounted in a drill or drill press, or -- my normal method -- a Stainless Steel Dremel brush. The latter takes time (and you'll need a few brushes ... they wear out), but it'll derust that shell to prisitne condition.

Make sure you get the inside of the shell, too ... you don't want rust propogating there.

Oh ... you likely want to remove the handrails, too, for primer/paint work.

TJ


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

yea tj i already removed the hand rails and stuff to clean them and so i could prime the loco shell

i used a drill with a brass brush tip and these were the results 




























the front nose cone was pretty banged up. it looks like it had been dropped at some time. so i did what i could with it 










i just primed it with rustoleum bare metal / lightly rusted white primer.

btw once i hooked the lock on on right it ran like a champ lol 

is there a place that i can see what the light assembly looks like and how to hook it up? i think it is missing from my locomotive


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like a nice stripping job.

Here's a few shots of Marx Vanderbilt locomotives to give you an idea of the headlight treatment.


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks, what does the light hook up look like inside? That's what I can't figure out. I've seen some pictures of the light having 2 wires and then the one I have had one wire but the light won't light up. I re soldered a new bulb on there but still couldn't get any power from it. I wonder if the e unit has no power and that's where the light gets power I'm not sure


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

The light is reversed from what you normally see. In a bulb the bottom point is hot and grounded to the sides. Here it is opposite. The center rail goes to the bulb socket side. The end of the socket is riveted to the frame.

The second wire off the socket goes to the reverse unit.


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

Yea, I'm missing the bracket all it had was a bulb with a hot wire running to the clip on the reverse unit. Just a single wire there was nothing grounded that I could see


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tew,

Excellent job on the strip / wire buff. You're makin' me proud, man ... you're makin' me proud!

FYI, a nice guide on old Marx locos, including that Vandy ...

http://marxtinplatetrains.com/marx_guide_locos.htm

TJ


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

tjcruiser said:


> Tew,
> 
> Excellent job on the strip / wire buff. You're makin' me proud, man ... you're makin' me proud!
> 
> ...


Well is there room for another Tin Man?



Maybe,

Tin Man Too?


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

We're multiplying like Shay's bunnies!


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## Tewhitte (Dec 19, 2012)

ok here is the finished product after paint, a shot of clear coat, and reassembly. im pretty pleased with it so far. i am going to grab a couple more cars off ebay to add to the train but it pulls pretty good. the only thing it does is it seems to kinda slow down a little after a while and one of the wheels seems to be working itself off the axle a little. other than that it runs pretty good. i know ICG didnt run these locos but my dad used to work there so it was kinda a homage piece to him. i custom painted the loco to reflect the paint scheme or ICG and then added the illinois central logo as a decal to the side. all in all i think it turned out pretty snappy for my first tear down, clean, strip, rust removal, prime, paint, and reassembly. 

thanks again for all the help guys and i look forward to moving onto the next of 7 more locos to get running again.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Tew,

That looks great! I've always like red/black color schemes ... looks especially nice on old tinplate stuff. Well done, sir ... well done!

TJ


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## N scale catastrophe (Nov 18, 2012)

Beautiful, a restoration job to be proud of, looks better than new!


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