# State of the Model Train Hobby



## danpuckett (Dec 31, 2014)

I have been encouraged to see two big box stores that I am aware of stocking and selling RTR train sets. Costco and Menards carry both Lionel and Bachmann products. Granted these stores provide little to no support once the purchase is made, but seems like the local hobby stores will benefit as these "newbies" erect their first set and see the need for more gear.


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## JoeSaggese (Aug 17, 2018)

I hope that is the case.


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## DarkJester (Aug 13, 2013)

I believe that this happens around this time of year every year.
Christmas/Holiday shopping.
That being said, if I purchased a Train Set for my 10 year old Grandson, he would ask me where his real present was. Video Games and Crap (yes, I said Crap) like that has taken over. I have even been told by several people that Video Games were their hobby. I have played Video games, sure. But I wouldn't call it a hobby. Now the guys that do flight Sim, and build a home cockpit and all of that, yeah, hobby.
I'm going to stop there. I don't want to go all Dennis Miller on this.

But I'm with Joe on this. I hope there are some kids that get a train set for Christmas. I hope someone shows them that there is more to just watching a train go around in a circle.

I hope.

Jester


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

The Menards case is an interesting one. With the Christmas season being as long as it is now, they've got Trains out front for at least 4 months of the year (Oct-Jan), sometimes longer. Further, they do releases for their O line year round online where they also sell some other train stuff. and though it is not widely known, at many stores they're somewhat stocked year-round in the "upper" area where they keep patio furniture. 

As well as their rather large selection of O rolling stock they now have their own brand of O tubular track in 3 radii, buildings, and die-cast. If they release their own switches, locos and transformers they'll pretty much have their own complete train line. 

This is all very encouraging. I'm just hoping they'll do the same budget-but-quality approach to HO railroading some day. Right now it's mostly a few Bachman items, some Menards buildings, and a couple of die-cast.

Not being a member, the Costco stocking of Bachmann is not something I was aware of. How wide a variety of product to they stock?


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## tankist (Jun 11, 2009)

As far as Costco I'm pretty sure it's seasonal. 

As for Menards what is even more interesting is that we have their rep registered on this board. 
I would be very interested to find out how did the decision get into trains came about.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Very seasonal at Costco, and a limited number of sets. They're not ready to move into the "train store prime time" column just yet.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I just looked at Costcos' website and anything they had by Lionel was listed 'member only item'.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

I don't know what kind of store Menards is, but a couple of weeks ago I was in my local Hobby Lobby: lots of Bachmann N and HO sets


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

GNfan said:


> I don't know what kind of store Menards is, but a couple of weeks ago I was in my local Hobby Lobby: lots of Bachmann N and HO sets


Menards is a big box home improvement Store like Home Depot and Lowes, but they are mainly in the mid-West. They are dabbling in HO and O gauge.


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

Millions of Americans don't like the here and now and they have a deep hunger for the past. Since model railroad tends to feature the past, I see good future sales for model trains and associated products. At least for the next few decades (until the Baby Boomers are gone).


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

The problem with giving a train set as a givpft is that you can't just hand it over and walk away. If you're willjng and able to invest the time and effort necessary to set it up and get it operational, you have a fighting chance of gettjng the child's interest, but not otherwise.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

DennyM said:


> Menards is a big box home improvement Store like Home Depot and Lowes, but they are mainly in the mid-West. They are dabbling in HO and O Gauge.


To be fair to Menards, while they're dabbling in HO, they've been pretty solidly committed to the production of O-Gauge rolling stock since 2010 or so. Albeit compressed 0-27'ish but still, now they're doing track and more. There's a fair bit of stuff to peruse year round here:

https://www.menards.com/main/home-decor/menards-collectibles/train-stuff-from-menards/c-14331.htm


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

DennyM said:


> I just looked at Costcos' website and anything they had by Lionel was listed 'member only item'.


Just a question......doesn't everybody buying at Costco have to be a member?


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Old_Hobo said:


> Just a question......doesn't everybody buying at Costco have to be a member?


That I can't answer. I don't shop there.


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## doneuald (Jan 2, 2016)

Menatds stores are owned by John Menard who also has an O Gauge layout at his home in Eau Claire Wisconsin, which is why the stores leaned towards O gauge.


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## DJTrains (Oct 8, 2008)

doneuald said:


> Menatds stores are owned by John Menard who also has an O Gauge layout at his home in Eau Claire Wisconsin, which is why the stores leaned towards O gauge.


Thanks for this info.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Old_Hobo said:


> Just a question......doesn't everybody buying at Costco have to be a member?


They have a website and some stuff is available to anyone, when you sign in as a member (and you are obviously required to be one), there are additional "member only" items.


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## Oldnewchoo (Aug 31, 2018)

My kids are already trying to divie up my trains...Lol. They got excited when I told them my grandkids would all have a train set for at least two Christmas's with individual items mixed in at birthdays...ect. .. Video games are RECREATION and are limited in our family. I am not above giving a lump of coal. Actually met a young woman, when I took my younger son Christmas shopping a few years back, whose parents took all her presents and returned them and gave her a lump of coal. She thought it was a joke at first. Said it straightened her out. I'm not too worried because kids always seem to enjoy trains.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

Unfortunately for us N-scalers, few if any "common" stores (such as Menards, Cosco, etc) carry N scale stuff. Granted, Hobby Lobby has an extremely limited amount, but not enough to make a hobby of it. If I had the room and $$, I'd love to have an O or HO set.


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## drbobderrig (Nov 12, 2018)

To Me having Menards with Lionel Trains is a great idea. The display might catch the eye of gramps who has a young grandson (or even grandgirl) . WE next thing you might know he may pick up some lumber for a basic train board and you may have two kids (big and little) hooked on trains again....And then a guy can pick up a car for birthdays and 'special days' and for no reason at all. And then when the bug gets bad off to the local hobby shop for more switches, track etc...win win

dr bob


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

We had 30 of our kids at our church Christmas party today, here in Mexico.

Afterwards, one exhausted worker brought two of her relatives, 8 and 9 years old, to see my trains. The two girls were fascinated by everything in our Christmas lay-out, and they didn't want to leave.

Our hobby is in good shape as long as we are willing to teach the next generation about it.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

Vincent said:


> Our hobby is in good shape as long as we are willing to teach the next generation about it.


Amen and well done!


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## Gramps (Feb 28, 2016)

At the risk of being the Grinch, it's a big step from being fascinated by anything and getting involved in it.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I will say , as i had in the past , its dying. Yes there is some interest around the holidays, but your not getting baby boomers anytime soon. I see how the prices of the trains have fallen. And i see no intrest in 50 year olds trying to relive there Christmas past. Some do , but its an abnormality rather then the norm. So, dont get your hopes up. People might buy a cheap train for around the tree, but its just that a decoration, not a hobby. Even here there is less traffic, shure there might be more posts but by people that are engrossed in the hobby. But the asking of questions and the usual holiday trafic seems down.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm not sure it's worth reopening this debate. People have been predicting doom and gloom for this hobby for 30 to 40 years, and yet everything is up except print magazine subscriptions. An especially strong indicator is increasing train show attendance.

The number of posts on a hobby forum is a very poor indicator of a hubby's health. It's like trying to describe an elephant by looking at its tail.

The hobby is evolving, perhaps not in a way that many old-timers approve of, but dying it most certainly is not.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

When WAS the heyday of model railroads? Back in the sixties, my dad had two Lionel train sets, but I don't remember anyone else having them. I doubt there was ever a time when most American homes owned model trains.

Model trains never dominated the hobby world, but they still maintain a strong presence.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Many hobbies and toys have come and gone.....but trains are still here, and getting better.....not a prescription for death, as far as I can see......


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok to sum up my assessment, im 46 , i know of no one my age that has trains or wants them. I cant even give some stuff away. I tried, said i would make sets for people's kids. No takers. So , add that into the asessment. Maybe ots the area i live in?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)




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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> Ok to sum up my assessment, im 46 , i know of no one my age that has trains or wants them. I cant even give some stuff away. I tried, said i would make sets for people's kids. No takers. So , adds that into the asessment. Maybe ots the area i live in?


Well, apparently, it's not all about you then....somebody is buying all the stuff they are making nowadays, and you can't find some of it after it sells out.....maybe the problem is the old stuff you are trying to get rid of has been superseded by the cool, newest stuff, and that's why nobody wants it......?

The train store I work with can have trains sitting on the shelf for months, and it seems like no one wants it......then the right person walks in and buys the whole lot.....patience is the virtue here....


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The stuff sits there for months, lol. Im not even going to say it old hobo. You made my point for me.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

And what point is that? That it won't sell immediately, so the hobby is collapsing?

That's just.....dumb....hwell:


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

No the point is that things that dont sell are not in demand. If the store was selling lols they wouldn't be able to keep them in stock. The 3 train stores by me are shuttered. Im sure its because they weren't making money hand over fist. The club i was in briefly had no one younger in it. I have young kids, they ,nor there friends are interested in trains. I didnt say the hobby was done now , but it will be old. Without intrested childern or even middle age adults, it will go the way of baseball cards, beenie babies, etc. 

And please, i dont call your ideas names, be an adult for once and try to have an intelligent conversation, i know thats hard for you, but please try.


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## Fire21 (Mar 9, 2014)

I wonder about the status of the hobby in the rest of the world beyond North America. We have members here from Europe, Australia, South America, probably Asia, and maybe even Africa. I doubt there are model trains in Antarctica, but am not positive. 

We see videos of model production from China, and they are making thousands of things, and keep introducing new stuff. There HAS to be demand, or they wouldn't be making those items.

We have some younger members here (in their 20s), so we also know there are young people out there who haven't discovered this forum who are into the hobby.

Yes, brick and mortar stores are closing due to poor neighborhood business traffic, but the internet companies, which serve the entire world, seem to be thriving, or at least doing pretty good business. 

To me all of those things indicate a pretty healthy hobby.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

I only bring myself down to the level of my adversary.....:laugh:

But model trains are far from dead; the items you mentioned have come and gone since model trains have been around, and yet the trains are still here....and the real trains are still operating and evolving, and will become the objects of tomorrows modellers, who are those kids that will become adults....

Is that intelligent enough for you?

So relax and enjoy your trains....


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## mesenteria (Oct 29, 2015)

People who enjoy this particular hobby tend to be 'older'.

Most of those who could be classed as 'older' are retired and on fixed income. (We'll ignore the better-heeled members of the hobby who have warehouses and shelves lined with unused brass stuff.)

If you're on a fixed income, or just thrifty, you are going to be high on a scale of 'mercenary' when it comes to using discretionary dollars.

The Moms 'n Pops out there charge a premium price. They have to. 

So, mixing this all into one bowl, the most dollars spent in the hobby are by those more advanced in life who know the value of a stretched dollar. They are not going to keep hobby stores open like they did in the past. Not in today's economy where graduates in the humanities are living in their parents' basements, working part-time, addicted to fortnite, and hate trains when their buses have to wait for them to pass. Coincidentally, that's the only time they see one.

Ergo, don't bemoan the hobby just yet. Many in the hobby are on the downhill slide of 60. The train shows are well attended, even if partly by indulgent female companions or moms.


About that addiction to fortnite, though...………………………...:smilie_daumenneg:


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Model railroading is a hobby that demands free time and disposable income. The 16 to 35 year old crowd, in the middle of starting off / getting comfortable with education, a career and family, often don't have a whole lot of that to spare.

A lot of young folks who get out of the hobby come back to it later in life, when they have the time and money to devote to it.

As far as retail, as I said in my initial post, the problem is the changing economic landscape. Stores are being shuttered because their owners aren't keeping up with trends and evolution in retail, not because no one is buying hobby stuff. The firms that make this stuff are selling out production runs. Just because Bob's Train Store can't adapt doesn't mean the hobby is dying. That's what's called the "single factor fallacy" -- considering just one aspect of a complex interrelated system and drawing broad conclusions from it.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

The problem i see is no one is getting into it. There are no kids that i see having them. There time is revoled around tablets. Not even tv is in the forefront. So that was the second part of my argument. And no there is no way around this. Kids watch you tube now or tv on demand, commercials are unknown to them but they can skip ads. They dont like or play with trains. There almost as content to watch a toy beeing unboxed as to atually playing with it. Yes this is a thing now and atually a multi million doller industry. The top toy picks are atually you tube driven. The unboxing vidios with the most hits are the hottest toys played with. None are trains. The drive to have technology in schools is partially responsible with pads and computers intruduced at the kindergarten level, the other part is the parents, me included leting it happen but unsure on how to change it, or even if its needed.The world is a bit diffent now. Do i think it will effect the hobby in the future, yes. Will people still make trains, yes. But i see it as more of a holiday decoration rather then a year long hobby. When this happens, i dont know. But i do think it will.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Well, we all still have our opinions.....I think the hobby is likely here to stay.....the train store I work with has many of all types and ages of customers, so maybe I see that more than others......


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> The problem i see is no one is getting into it. There are no kids that i see having them. There time is revoled around tablets. Not even tv is in the forefront. So that was the second part of my argument. And no there is no way around this. Kids watch you tube now or tv on demand, commercials are unknown to them but they can skip ads. They dont like or play with trains. There almost as content to watch a toy beeing unboxed as to atually playing with it. Yes this is a thing now and atually a multi million doller industry. The top toy picks are atually you tube driven. The unboxing vidios with the most hits are the hottest toys played with. None are trains. The drive to have technology in schools is partially responsible with pads and computers intruduced at the kindergarten level, the other part is the parents, me included leting it happen but unsure on how to change it, or even if its needed.The world is a bit diffent now. Do i think it will effect the hobby in the future, yes. Will people still make trains, yes. But i see it as more of a holiday decoration rather then a year long hobby. When this happens, i dont know. But i do think it will.


I'm not convinced that "top toy picks" ever included a model railroad or a train set. Certainly not in probably 50 years. Again, I think you're letting yourself be distracted by irrelevant data. Or you've already formed your opinion and are just looking for confirmation.

Just as you let the flood of noise and video game hype color your opinion on toys, you let the absence of data -- new kids joining the hobby -- color your opinion. Just because you don't know of any doesn't mean they aren't there. I certainly won't claim that I can see more than a tiny fraction of the potential entrants, but at least three members here are young men, and I help two local boys in addition to my own son around here, there are new members.

Old hobo is right, though, you ARE entitled to your opinion, and it's your right under the doctrine of free speech to share it with anyone who will listen. You will have to forgive us, though, if your dom and gloom scenario doesn't resonate with the rest of us.


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## Eilif (Nov 6, 2017)

I was a child in the 80's and I think I was the only kid I knew who had a model train set that was setup more than Christmas time. I'm not entirely convinced that they've ever been a truly popular toy for kids in my lifetime Yet the hobby seems to have thrived and grown. 

As to the matter of the disappearing hobby shop. There are still quite a few train shops in virtually any metropolitan area. There are less though, and this corresponds with a changing retail environment. Lots of small retail has been crowded out by big box and online shopping. 

All this to say the relative scarcity of children in the hobby and the closing of hobby stores does not necessarily reflect on the strength of the hobby as a whole.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Sorry , i still dissgree, i havent seen the hobby thriving and growing. We will just have to wait and see. 

I just form opinions on what i observe, its not colored eaither way, it just is. Unfortunately there isnt a way to guage how many people enter the hobby by age. If there was i could compile concrate evidance that would clear this up. But there isnt any , so we have observations and conjecture. From this we each form our opinions. Only time will tell.........


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I figure the hobby will easily outlast me, so the next generation can handle keeping it going on their own! 

As for what might kill the hobby, it's crap like the junk that Lionel and to a lesser extent, MTH are turning out. Too many simple QC issues that should have never gotten into the box, never mind the consumer's hands.


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## flyboy2610 (Jan 20, 2010)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> As for what might kill the hobby, it's crap like the junk that Lionel and to a lesser extent, MTH are turning out. Too many simple QC issues that should have never gotten into the box, never mind the consumer's hands.


It's not just Lionel and MTH. I work in a factory that makes components for automobile seats. You wouldn't believe how many different parts are in a modern car seat! 
The QA lead is a good friend of mine, and I often ask him "So... what have we screwed up today?" Some of the stuff he shows me is just unbelievable! I swear some of the people out there are working with their eyes closed!


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> Sorry , i still dissgree, i havent seen the hobby thriving and growing. We will just have to wait and see.
> 
> I just form opinions on what i observe, its not colored eaither way, it just is. Unfortunately there isnt a way to guage how many people enter the hobby by age. If there was i could compile concrate evidance that would clear this up. But there isnt any , so we have observations and conjecture. From this we each form our opinions. Only time will tell.........


But that's the point: your personal observations incorporate too small a piece of the overall picture to make valid conclusions or deductions. Especially with regard to hobby shops closing. Reading certainly isn't dying, but bookstores are an endangered species.

You're welcome to hunker down in your world of doom and gloom. The world doesn't stop changing, and maybe our hobby will go the way of the dinosaurs, but it's much more likely that it's just changing with the world, leaving some folks behind.

For myself, I will continue to enjoy this wonderful hobby, and to share it with great people, including (or especially) those who are not yet participants, but may be once they appreciate all that it has to offer, and have the time and funds to do it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Play nice guys, it's Christmas!


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

All good GR, i can handle it! Lol. Im not going to change your opinion , nor you mine. And as far as observations go, you are correct. The only difference is that the area i live in is far more densely populated then yours, or at least the area in your profile. So if you see people intrested there then good, but i dont see it. I wish they had the people visting the sight stats, maybe they do( and i cant find it ) but i do feel as if the questions, and new people coming on to find info has slowed over the years. As i said time will tell, the world is changing, and trains are not held in high of a reguard as they once were. So we shall see! And Merry Christmas. 


And I hope you remember, I always try to help and expand the hobby, just not many takers down here.


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## Vincent (Jan 28, 2018)

We had six of our church kids (four of whom had never seen electric trains before) at our house today. Kids DO like trains, but they have to be introduced.


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## PoppetFlatsRR (Jul 29, 2018)

Went to our local train club meeting, we had four new members there today, all running trains that they had just bought or got over Christmas, and one young lady that became a member. Kind of surprising, but the club is making an effort to gain new members with open houses meetings at the Hobby Shop. Bob, the owner of Dynamic Hobbies promotes the train club to just about everyone that comes in looking for anything to do with trains. He gives us free rent on a large building that houses HO and N scale. He has a very large O scale/Lionel set up in the main store. I will try to get some pictures of his layout. It is amazing and has been done for a good ten years or more. 

He says O scale and Lionel are doing Okay, but does not sell much. HO is the bell cow by far, but thinks N scale is gaining due most people having ares restrictions. With sound N scale has become more popular according to his sales records. He stocks a lot of stuff, so he must be making money. 

Of course the big mover is RC cars and RC planes. I have never seen so many RC planes before. He has everything hanging from the rafters.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Henning's has started selling HO and N again with the expanded store.


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## Luke 221 (Feb 12, 2013)

State of the Hobby? Ok where I live, I do have several hobby shops and I try to visit them when I can but..... I only rarely purchase new items mainly due to the prices. I remember when N scale diesels cost about 30 bucks new and not $150.00 yada yada i wont beat that dead horse again. That leaves me with the used items. However hobby shop number 1 prices used N scale engines (DC only not DCC) at $70 to $80 bucks and used rolling stock at $15 per car (Atlas). I use LHS #1 only for Micro Trains Couplers 
LHS # 2 prices are worse and therefore I only use them for new KATO track and parts etc. (used MRC tech II transformers for $50 bucks. old tyco HO freight cars at 10 bucks per car etc.)
LHS #3 is far from me and only sells new stuff. I only go there once a year and basically just for decals and to browse.
Train Shows- this is where I purchase all of my stuff.... Locos for $30 bucks Like new Atlas rolling stock w/ mt couplers for $10.... 
That is where the state of the hobby is for me. I am only buying used and only at shows and treat the LHS shops for parts / track / couplers etc. I may spend $500 or more per year on my hobby but it is 90 % to private dealers. The hobby may be in decline and shops are continuing to close, but they (the dealers) need to do their part also and not turn customers away


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