# En-22 canon motor vs other options (steamer related)



## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm currently working/upgrading a rivarossi 4-6-4 Hudson And already installed led and kadee upgrade on the tender... So I'm moving on to the motor which is in dire need of replacing.

So from research I saw this canon motor thrown in these steamers as a good upgrade?

Any info advise or other options please let me know

Thanks art


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

Would be interested to know what you find out. I have a Riv. Berkshire that I'd like to remotor, as well as a sweet U25C that uses the same motor......


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I heard these en-22 canon's are really nice less draw good tq and 5400rpm and since I'm a r/c guy it sounds about right

There is another motor I'm researching that starts with an f that I will find again

On eBay btw the motors run about 14 to 20 bucks so that seems decent

Keep ya posted


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Ok other motor is a faulhaber 224sr and apparently a direct drop in.

I might go this route since draw is 200 milliamps


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

I have a Berk that would be good to remotor. It has the newer type can motor in the 1995 Riv Anniversary Red Box. I do have an older Riv cab forward and a couple of Riv GG1's that could use new motors.

Any ideas for those?

Thanks!!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm going with the faulhaber 

Also I read an article about using 2 canon motors on some of the bigger rivarossi's


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

I'll be watching this as I have a couple engines that could use a re freshening.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well do you fella's want a before and after? How to install? I can if this is really important.

Im always kitbashing something so I never thought about posting them

People nowadays want it rtr instead of creating something


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Grabbem88 said:


> Well do you fella's want a before and after? How to install? I can if this is really important.
> 
> Im always kitbashing something so I never thought about posting them
> 
> People nowadays want it rtr instead of creating something


Yes, to all questions, as that would be very helpful!


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I like to tinker & with all the rivarossi stuff I have it would be great to see a how to, thanks, Rich


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

Grabbem88 said:


> Well do you fella's want a before and after? How to install? I can if this is really important.
> 
> Im always kitbashing something so I never thought about posting them
> 
> People nowadays want it rtr instead of creating something


Yes please!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well I pulled the trigger and bought the faulhaber $40.00 after all said and done.

Yes the canon is half the price and will do the job but from my research the tq will offset the gearing of the rivarossi so in other words the canon with Nwsl gearing would be about the same price.... I guess

My goal is super slow crawling and ease of instalation.

This motor 224sr is 22mm by 24mm so take two nickles face one up and butt up the other and that's the motor size. 

And people do use both motors in all rivarossi's from berk's to gg1's


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well I received the faulhaber in the mail and it's a small guy.

Had to trim on the shell a little cause it hangs out a bit put once all wired up had to fold tabs flat else when going around tight curves the tabs hit the tender.

Made my own driveshaft out of tubing the plastic origanal was warped

Now I was going to make before and after video but the old motor just wouldn't fire up but I did take pics and once I figure out if I got gearing problems or traction tires are shot/missing... (only see 2 on same side ) She runs really good for even this problem and top speed is scale now

Added weight to both loco and tender plus LEDs and added contact wire and that seems to fix all my pick up problems.

So who owns or have access to a parts diagram to a rivarossi 4-6-4 Hudson?

I need to know about traction tires!

Thanks art


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

I might have that, will dig around tomorrow & see what I come up with.
Is it this engine?


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Close same platform atleast 

And thanks for looking btw

I'll post pics up tomorrow 

Alot of testing and mocking up kinda wore me out


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

here's the cut sheets on my 4-6-4...............




If you save them you should be able to enlarge & read easily


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well how about this rusty look at yours and tell me lol 

Mine only has provisions for two the rest don't have any lips grooves.


And my other concern is quartering 

I'm gonna post pics and please bare with me!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1560.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1561.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1563.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1562.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1559.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1558.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1555.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1554.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1553.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1556.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1552.jpg

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af158/countrygurl78/Train table/IMG_1557.jpg


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

OK, 2 traction tires are correct front & rear on one side nothing on middle wheel. As for quartering I'm not much help, Shay had mentioned the angle from one side to another for me but I can't find the post, my rods do look a little straighter than yours ? 
tire side.............


same side straight on for quartering............



other side.............


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks rusty.. You been alot of help

So how you like my upgrade? 

This 4-6-4 really is night and day when old motor did run 

Really considering a re gear 

Gonna post a video in a bit so you can see what you think


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

That's a massive motor you shoehorned in there, nice work , mine has a little grinding noise in reverse, lubing didn't help


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Just fried my little bachman switcher, started to pull it out of the yard & it started smoking, turned it off quick but I think that's gonna be unfixable, motor ? glad it wasn't one of the rivarossi's !


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

It bolted right up actually I added plastic spacers for future dcc usage but havnt figured out the wiper mod yet seems easy though

I also thought about adding a red led on top of motor to give it that hot coal look..


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Show me the motor and I might can help

Sounds like oil got into it?


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

Bolted right up! Sweet! 

How much hangs out the cab? Hopefully it won't interfere with the tender.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I'll show ya what I did and if you run 18* and above this won't be an issue...

I have a stupid S curve 15* switch back

All I had to do was fold/bend the tabs out and was still able to slip wires In the eyelids


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

http://youtu.be/6Iz-gusglwM

Hope this plays and yes The motor has noise but it's only on idle.

I Also didn't realize I had 17 cars behind it when I lashed up and they all are weighted.

Tires are old and I think it can pull more and motor temp never gets over 79*(I use a temp gun)

Motor isn't broken in so the noise might simmer down but while running you can't hear anything

And that was top speed btw


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

uh oh. I got a good chuckle outta that. 

The noise almost sounds like DC runnin on DCC. Maybe a few laps around in each direction will break it in. Otherwise great job on the retro fit. That slow crawl is awesome.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Lol yeah my "uh oh" was my goof alright!

The slow crawl can be even slower but I didn't want to bore ya!

If you do decide this route as an upgrade there will be a snip or two in the cab firebox area where the motor hangs out. a little black steam paint from poly scale hides all that

What I liked was no silicone or major cutting and a very easy upgrade


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

My Riv Cab Forward has that same type motor, as do my GG1's. My Berk actually has a smaller can motor with a brass color case, and flat on two sides, that was put in by Rivarossi. 

My cab forward needs that upgrade, for sure!

Oh, about the quartering, one side, needs to be at 12 o'clock, and the other at 3 or 9 o'clock. I do not remember which side is which though.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I think my quartering is right cause she is too smooth and about your motors rrgassi all can be swapped out for either a cannon or this faulhaber I chose.

I'm gonna try and break it in tomorrow and see from seller about the noise though


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## Smokinapankake (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm sure that motor would fit my Berkshire, but not so sure it would fit my U25C, just due to the length. Good job, and thanks for taking the time to post pics!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well if somebody has a dead articulate.. I would like to try a canon or if they preferr what I use id be happy to help them out in any way.. 

And length of motors was 1/4 inch difference maybe a tad less


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Ok update the noise is from my techII because I hooked my railpower 1300 to it and it's quite actually zero noise! 

I knew it was junky but it served it's purpose so I guess it is time for an upgrade hopefully dcc!

I hope that makes some good piece of mind now on this motor and I'm definately giving it a A+ on fit function and quality!


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## RUSTY Cuda (Aug 28, 2012)

Both of my tech 2's "leak" a bit, trains sit there & hum , throttles don't completely shut down, have not noticed that with the tech 3 unit hope it stays that way!


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I bought it second hand so it was bound to happen 

Man this 4-6-4 is like one of my kato's now though

So I need to know how you guys add wipers to locos 

I read using #5 kadee springs and looks pretty cool just curious on mounting without causing ground issues


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Hey Grabbem,

I just ordered one of the German motors like you have. I'm going to mount it in my Cab Forward. It has all of it's drive shafts intact and in place. 

Can I grind a notch in the motor shaft to make the factory drive shaft work?


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I forgot all about that part... I did notch mine as well but didn't like the wobble from the warped plastic.

Just becareful cause the shaft kept rolling on me from not being able to hold onto shaft very well


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

The shaft kept rolling...meaning the motor shaft would spin with in the plastic?

That would not be good! What about making a shaft out of brass or aluminum tubing by crimping the tube ends?

I'm thinking out loud here...


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Did you see my pic on my tube? Just find some 2mm fuel tubing or I'll make ya a shaft if need be... Trust me with the tubing shoved inside the aluminum tube it is freaking tight!!

The motor is ball bearing and all metal only thing plastic is the cap with the electrical connectors

If you added a flywheel to it the engine will keep on moving...so the guy says and I believe him


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Thanks for that info!! Now to find a flywheel...


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Motor showed up today...

Now to see what happens...


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## tr1 (Mar 9, 2013)

I certainly will be interested
Regards,
tr1


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

Don't hesitate to bug me if you run into a problem


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Dang it! The motor is too long for the Cab Forward. 

IF it was 4-5 mm shorter, it would be a direct bolt in...I'm working with the vendor to see if there are any shorter ones.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

I had to snip the firebox area..


I like to see what is going on any pics?


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

There is no firebox area to snip in the cab forward, as the cab coveres the motor. I'll take pics an post them.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

So is it the width for the motor to pass through or the mounting area puts way out where it hits the tender?

Can you flip everything around? 

Flip worm gear housing where shaft and motor will more inside?

I wish I was closer to you guys trying this upgrade.


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

It's a Cab Forward, so the motor is in the front. It runs "backwards" like the real thing. I do not see a way to flip stuff around due to the frame casting.

The motor is too long by about 4 to 5 mm.

There is a way to make it a dual motor set up, but that is $100. 

I'm still working on pictures.


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

Grabbem88, can the small weights fit inside the front stream engine to weight down the wheels to get better traction? It can break one piece is 2 grams each.

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detailair.asp?ID=200808556&gclid=CJaVpcXB3boCFallOgodmjMAXQ


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

On this 4-6-4 I got over 4-6 oz...alot!

Evidently some of the other rivarossi's are being more of a pita!


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Grabbem,

Here are pics of the Cab Forward. If I shave off the 4mm to make the Faulhaber 2224sr fit, I will lose the motor mount point. In this Riv, the motor is mounted at an angle .

The current motor is a tight fit in the cab. 

The Faulhaber width is perfect. It's just too long.

I'll get the Faulhaber mocked up somehow...


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## Rusty (Jun 23, 2011)

I have two new Rivarossi ahm canon motors with 5 skewed poles, will it work for your cab forward train?


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Rusty, Thanks for the offer. This motor is still good, just not isolated from the frame for DCC. I think I may have a way to make the coreless motor work. Will take some milling and some angle aluminum...

I'll make a new thread when I figure it out.


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## Grabbem88 (Feb 24, 2012)

http://youtu.be/yvlIvoiOY9c

That is how quite it is with better power station

http://youtu.be/kzBC-foLI6Q

This is 25 cars plus tender all cars are metal wheels and weighted

I'm impressed!


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## rrgrassi (May 3, 2012)

Awesome videos!!!


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