# Advice for Beginner



## RJC (Nov 30, 2017)

I am looking to build my first N Scale layout. It will be built on a 4' x 8' table. What is the minimum curve radius you would recommend along with track, rolling stock and locomotive manufacturers.

Thank you


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## Wooky_Choo_Bacca (Nov 13, 2020)

Welcome RJC, the minimum radius depends on the size / lengths of what you are planning on running. The shorter locomotives can run on tighter curves while longer ones would tend to derail. I have an E5A and a couple of SD70ACes, the the minimum recommended curve was 12 inches, and as it turned out that was what was in the starter set I got from Kato. You have a wide range of locos and rolling stock and just as many opinions also. I got Kato Unitrack due to it's ease of use and it looks fairly realistic, again many opinions too. So far Kato locos for me and the cars are varied but if not MicroTrain I've swapped out the trucks / couplers to M/T due to good quality and realism. Probably one brand that most everyone sees as the bottom rung on the ladder is anything Bachman. There will be others coming along that will give you their opinions as well

Again, Welcome To The Machine


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## RJC (Nov 30, 2017)

Thank you


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## TVRR (Nov 15, 2019)

If you are looking for sturdy trouble free track try Kato's Unitrak. It looks OK and can be made to look very realistic with some effort if you are into that. Atlas, MicroTrains, Athearn, Intermountain and others are good suppliers of RTR rolling stock. While everyone seems to like to take a swipe at Bachmann I will have to say their Spectrum steamers have been quite good for 10 yrs or more. I have 2-6-0s, 4-6-0s, 2-8-0 (8), light and heavy Mountains, 2-10-2, and J3s that run beautifully and are very detailed. Have never bought one of their diesels.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

RJC said:


> I am looking to build my first N Scale layout. It will be built on a 4' x 8' table. What is the minimum curve radius you would recommend along with track, rolling stock and locomotive manufacturers.
> 
> Thank you


RJC;

Welcome to the forum! I'm a long time N-scale modeler. With N-scale, you won't need a 4' x 8' table, unless you just want one. Unless you can walk all the way around a 4 x 8, and get to all four sides, it's not a particularly convenient shape to reach across, or even fit in many rooms. N-scale sectional track curve radii range from 9-3/4" up to 19". Note that this is the radius, not the diameter, of the curve, and it is measured from the centerline of the track, so some extra room will be needed. Using the 11" radius and adding an inch for that center-to-center business I just mentioned, you could fit a loop of N-scale track on as small a table as 2' x 4'. Or 2' x 8' if you like. 11" radius will handle most smaller N-scale locos and cars, but if you plan to run big steam locomotives, six-axle modern diesels, and 80' long cars, I suggest going to at least 16" radius curves using flex track. Even the 16" radius will fit on a table 3' deep. That's about the maximum practical reach for an adult if the table is 3' or more off the floor and butted up to a wall.

As for locomotives, you can't buy a bad Kato brand locomotive, since they only make excellent ones. 😊 They make a wide range of diesels, but hardly any U.S. prototype steam locomotives. A 2-8-2 Mikado and a 4-8-4 Northern are the only two Kato steamers I know of.
For steamers, you may have to try your luck with Bachmann. They offer a wide range of types, and they are nearly the only manufacturer who offers much in the way of N-scale steam. I don't like Bachmann because I go back to the days when they only made junk. However, many here on the forum say that current production locomotives are a lot better than the old ones.
For freight cars the best brand by far is Micro-Trains, but Atlas, and even Bachmann, make decent freight cars. Micro-Trains also makes beautiful heavyweight/steam era passenger cars, and Kato makes excellent streamlined passenger cars as well a complete sets of famous passenger trains.

For track I suggest Atlas, Peco, or Micro Engineering, flex track. If you prefer "roadbed track" (the kind with a rigid plastic roadbed piece attached to each track section, you have two choices. Kato "Unitrack" which like all Kato products is excellent, (including the Kato turnouts) , or Bachmann "EZ-Track" which, like many Bachmann products, is lousy. Actually the track itself is OK, but the turnouts are absolute junk.

I also recommend that you stay away from Atlas N-scale turnouts. They only offer their cheap "Snap Switch" type in N-scale. (The better quality Atlas "Custom Line" turnouts are available in HO-scale, but not N-scale.) The "Snap Switches" are prone to derailments, and have a history of burning out the coils in their switch machines. Both problems can be overcome with modification, but there are better turnouts available that will work right out of the box.

Peco turnouts are excellent, and I highly recommend them for general quality. There is one odd quirk about Peco's code 55 turnouts and flex track though. They don't mate directly with other brands of code 55 track or turnouts. They are fine together though, so if you elect to use Peco code 55 turnouts, use Peco code 55 flex track with them. Another very good turnout is Micro Engineering. Both their turnouts, and flex track, are super-realistic looking. They are also a bit delicate, but will work well if you handle them carefully during installation. Micro Engineering flex track is different from Atlas. The M-E track is stiff and requires more time and effort to form into a given curve, but once set, it holds its shape. Atlas flex track is just the opposite. It bends very easily to any desired curve, but the second you let go of it, it springs back to straight. Some like one and hate the other, or vice versa, your choice.

The files below are some I wrote for "Newbies" planning their first layout. They are packed with all sorts of information designed to help you make a first layout.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

RJC,

I just started and built my first layout. I used only Kato Unitrack for it, and bought most of the track in three of their master/variation sets. Their inner oval set included 282 mm (about 11 inch) radius curves. The advice my local hobby shop gave was that this was the smallest curve I should consider. Each manufacturer will usually tell you what the minimum curve that they designed a locomotive for, and Kato says theirs run 9.75 inch (249 mm) curves. I have one locomotive, a GG1, that I had a little trouble getting to run on the 11 inch curve if there was any unevenness in the track. It works fine now that I have gotten the track worked out, but it convinced me that the advice about going any smaller was correct. My son wants to get a the Athearn UP Big Boy steam engine next and they say it has an 11 inch minimum, so I am a little concerned about it on my layout. Might have to keep it to the outside loop with larger curves.


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## TVRR (Nov 15, 2019)

You were given good advise. While small engines like a 4-6-0 will run fine on 9.75 long wheel base engines not and will look odd trying. The largest radius curve that will fit your situation is best.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> RJC,
> 
> I just started and built my first layout. I used only Kato Unitrack for it, and bought most of the track in three of their master/variation sets. Their inner oval set included 282 mm (about 11 inch) radius curves. The advice my local hobby shop gave was that this was the smallest curve I should consider. Each manufacturer will usually tell you what the minimum curve that they designed a locomotive for, and Kato says theirs run 9.75 inch (249 mm) curves. I have one locomotive, a GG1, that I had a little trouble getting to run on the 11 inch curve if there was any unevenness in the track. It works fine now that I have gotten the track worked out, but it convinced me that the advice about going any smaller was correct. My son wants to get a the Athearn UP Big Boy steam engine next and they say it has an 11 inch minimum, so I am a little concerned about it on my layout. Might have to keep it to the outside loop with larger curves.


Steve;

I think you are wise to be concerned about eight-drivered steam locos, let alone sixteen-drivered big boys, on tight curves. Also I wouldn't accept the manufacturer's minimum radius recommendations as absolutely accurate.
I have two Kato 2-8-2 Mikado steamers that were recommended for an 11" minimum. I had adopted a 12" minimum for my layout. I found the mikados derailed far too often on the 12" r. curves. I did some real world tests and found that 16" was the minimum radius that they would stay on reliably, all the time. I ended up replacing all my 12" curves with 16" .

Traction Fan 🙂


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## clovissangrail01 (Oct 8, 2019)

I built my layout using those Kato M and V sets, too. I am modelling 50s/60s era passenger trains, and whereas the F units of the time could handle that 11-inch inner loop curve, the E-units and those 80-ft passenger cars just didn't look good. I upped my minimum to 12 3/8 and expanded my outer loop 15 1/8. So my middle loop curve radius is actually Kato's outer loop V6.

It's an oval on a 3-ft HC door, and the 12-inch is only in a low speed access track the trains use to back into Union Station.


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