# 600 crossing



## alaft61ri

I am setting up the 600 crossing with bell followed directions. Know wont work. The only thing i have on order the fiber pins dont know if that make a difference. So i put power to the 670 were the red wire goes. The gate moves down. Take if i press the 2 690 track trip nothing. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks
Al


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## Sagas

The attached pages will give you information on the 670 as it applies to the 600 plus wiring. If you don't have the fiber pins you can use pieces of toothpicks temporally to test but do not force them in since you will want to remove them when the fiber arrives. The 670 provides power to keep the gate down while the 696's ring the bell. Barry


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## alaft61ri

Thankyou i have all that info. Just wasnt sure about the fiber pins thats good i dear with the toothpicks i will try it thanks again stay safe. 
Al


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## alaft61ri

I hooked every thing put in fiber pins but not gate wont go down and train stops in the middle tryed all diferent set ups cant figure it out. Any idears would appreciate. Thanks al


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## AmFlyer

If everything is wired correctly and the gate goes down when you connect the 15V transformer post to the red wire connection on the 670, but not without it then the 670 is bad.


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## BrokeCurmudgeon

AmFlyer said:


> If everything is wired correctly and the gate goes down when you connect the 15V transformer post to the red wire connection on the 670, but not without it then the 670 is bad.


Or perhaps the wire strands as Mopac has pointed out.


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## alaft61ri

So instead of the yellow wire going to the 15v disconnect the red and connect to 15 v. But why does train stop when it goes by the 707 trip.


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## alaft61ri

This is the directions iam using.


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## AmFlyer

No, wire it exactly as shown. I may have misunderstood, what I thought you did was momentaily touch the yellow wire to the red wire and the gate came down. That makes the most likely problem tat the 670 track trip is not working. Have you tested the 670?
As far as the engine stopping, if it is moving from left to right as shown in the diagram then the yellow wire or the 707 track terminal is bad. If the train is moving right to left then the 670 is bad.


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## alaft61ri

AmFlyer said:


> If everything is wired correctly and the gate goes down when you connect the 15V transformer post to the red wire connection on the 670, but not without it then the 670 is bad.


I did what you said the arm goes down and bell goes if this correct then something iam not seeing thanks

Al


AmFlyer said:


> No, wire it exactly as shown. I may have misunderstood, what I thought you did was momentaily touch the yellow wire to the red wire and the gate came down. That makes the most likely problem tat the 670 track trip is not working. Have you tested the 670?
> As far as the engine stopping, if it is moving from left to right as shown in the diagram then the yellow wire or the 707 track terminal is bad. If the train is moving right to left then the 670 is bad.


Ok i switched the fiber pin to go right between the 670 track trip tran went thru when it came by the 670 trip the gate went down and bell went off but gate stayed down here is picture of it roughly set up.


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## alaft61ri

Train goes by but gate stays down if i spread the 696 trips further would that help. Thanks 

Al


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## AmFlyer

Ok, with the pictures an issue is apparent. I can see the fiber pin in the lower rail between the 670 clips. That rail with the 670 must be connected to the 7 to 15V post on the transformer. Then the upper rail must be connected to the base post. Then the two 690's are on backwards. The side of the 690 with the Fahnstock clip must be on the 7 to 15V rail which is the lower one. The second fiber pin to the right side of the picture needs to be in the lower (7-15V) rail just before the 707, it appears to be in the upper Base Post rail. The 707 fahnstock clip should have a yellow wire that connects back to the transformer 7-15V post. The way I do this is to put a second 707 clip on the track to the left of the 670 and just connect a wire between them.
Let me know if you have trouble making the revisions.


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## alaft61ri

Ok thanks .
Al


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## alaft61ri

I took the 696 reversed them i had them like that before. I put another 707 and connected them. The only thing iam confused is. When u say conect the 670 one to 7/15 the other base post here is photos of it know i figure photos r better. Thanks 

Al


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## AmFlyer

Looks like the second fiber pin is still in the wrong rail. It must be in the same rail as the fiber pin the 670 track trip is connected across.


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## alaft61ri

I put the fiber pin back and when i put train on gate goes down. Before train comes near it. Thers must be something iam doing wrong cant see it. Know 600 gate came wit 3 wire black red and green i hooked it up as it says. Iam going to work on ti some more thankyou for your help dont want to bother you anymore. Thankyou stay safe.

Al


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## AmFlyer

These most recent pictures look like everything is correct except for one fiber pin location. Let us know if it all works after you move it.


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## alaft61ri

Both fiber pins should be on the same side the two pins r on the the were the 670 trCk trip. Iam wondering if i have a bad trip. 670soon as i put power the gate goes down. Thanks 

Al


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## alaft61ri

Well i worked on it till 10 last night cant figure it out soon as i put the handle down on transformer. The arm goes down. Here is photo of my transformer maybe to many not sure. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks 

Al


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## AmFlyer

I see some things that raise question. I will post a drawing later after some meetings I have today.


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## AmFlyer

We will will start with a new, clean wiring diagram I will post below. First, two issues appear in the pictures. There is an air chime whistle controller on the control panel, make sure it is not connected to the same loop of track that will contain the 600. They do not play nice together. They can both be used on the same track but the wiring and precautions needed are beyond the scope of this posting. The 690 track terminal on the outer loop of track is installed as Gilbert describes, all Gilbert instructions are drawn with the Base Post rail as the bottom or outer rail. The sole exception to that unfortunately is the instructions for the 600 which have the Base Post rail as the upper or inner rail! This will cause wiring errors.
To prevent any errors from Gilbert’s unfortunate drawing I have added the 690 Track terminal to the instructions for the 600. Note how it is upside down in the picture compared to the 707 track terminal. Note where the two fiber pins are shown. Also, if there is one, or two, pair of turnouts that connect the outer loop to the inner loop put a fiber pin in both rails between the two turnouts.
Before anything else make sure the track is set up and wired as shown. If it still does not work we can test each component one by one.


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## alaft61ri

Ok i will when u say loop u mean thectrack switches.


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## AmFlyer

By loop I mean the track that the train runs on, the isolating fiber pins then go between the track switches that allow the trains to cross between otherwise independent loops of track. Track switches=turnouts.


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## alaft61ri

Ok thanks one other thing with the fiber pins u mean each rail so i would need 4 fiber pins because i only have 2 . if its just 2 so 1goes i one switch or both in one switch. Thanyou for your patience as u can see electrical is not my strong suite. 
Al


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## AmFlyer

I do mean each rail. Where the track switches meet you really do not need any track pins if you align them carefully and fasten them to the layout.


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## alaft61ri

Ok thanks iam going to do it know


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## AmFlyer

Just like shown here.


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## alaft61ri

Ok gotcha.


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## alaft61ri

To amflyer i want to thankyou very much for helping me. For your time and patience still not working when i hook the yellow wire to transformer red light goes on. Dont know why.for know i will leave iam going to finish up doing other things to the new layout i added. I really do appreciate your time and patience. 

Al


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## AmFlyer

There is a short in the wiring/equipment somewhere between the Base Post and the 15V post. There is an unfortunate choice of wire colors on the Gilbert diagram that might be an issue. Note that I marked the color of the wire from the 7 to 15V post to the 690 as white. Gilbert marked the wire connecting the 707 to the 670 as yellow, it should be white because it ultimately connects to the 7 to 15V post. Only the wire from the 15V post to the 670 should be yellow.
Let me know when you want to return to this project.


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## alaft61ri

Ok Thankyou.


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## alaft61ri

Late last night started working on 600 gate. Ck every thing if i leave yellow wire off train comes around. Bell goes off. Then if i put yellow wire on red light goes on transformer. Know two things the yellow wire wasnt long enough so i grabed another yellow wire that is heaver gage would that make difference. 2nd thing here is a picture i drew of the 690 track terminals on track before track switches and 600 gate. Would this make a difference. 

Al


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## AmFlyer

It looks like the inside rail is connected to the Base Post, correct? Can you add the location of the 670 to this picture? The wire gauge will not cause the red light on the transformer to come on.


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## alaft61ri

Here is a scatch. Iam working at both jobs tonight. What i will do is take pictures of all the 690 track terminal on the inside i have another track laid on the outside tahat goes all around this the inside iam working on.


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## AmFlyer

No hurry, work takes priority.


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## alaft61ri

Here is photos.


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## AmFlyer

It appears from the pictures the outside rail is the Base Post and the inside rail is the 7-15V Post rail. The picture at the Log Loader shows black wires to the Base Post and Red wires to the 7-15V rail. I assume these red wires connect to the center post on the transformer. The picture at the Plasticville Church shows a black wire to the outside rail and red wire to the inside rail, I assume the 690 track clip is just attached backwards. The picture near the Operating Stockyard has two black wires connected to the 690 track clip, is the one on the right connected to the red wires under the layout? If that and my other assumptions are correct all the wiring I see in these pictures is ok. I need a picture of the track in front of the 600 that includes both fiber pins, the two 696 trips, the 670 trip and the 707 track terminals.


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## alaft61ri

Ok when i get home tonight i will thankyou . you have a lot of patients . lol


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## AmFlyer

I will take a look later today. Bear with me, I have some scheduled commitments here.


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## AmFlyer

Al, this was quicker than I thought. The 670, 696's and 707 are all connected to the Base Post rail on your layout. Look closely at the 600 instruction drawing, it is not obvious at first but in the drawing all those items are on the 7-15V post rail. Whoever at Gilbert made that drawing put the Base Post rail at the top rather than at the bottom leading to endless confusion.
The easiest fix is to just swap all the wires connected to all the 696 track terminals on your layout. This will make the inside rail the Base Post and the outside rail the 7-15V Post. That way you will not have to redo all the wiring and fiber pins at the 600. It should work correctly with that change.


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## alaft61ri

Not a problem working in yard today.
Take your time thankyou.


AmFlyer said:


> Al, this was quicker than I thought. The 670, 696's and 707 are all connected to the Base Post rail on your layout. Look closely at the 600 instruction drawing, it is not obvious at first but in the drawing all those items are on the 7-15V post rail. Whoever at Gilbert made that drawing put the Base Post rail at the top rather than at the bottom leading to endless confusion.
> The easiest fix is to just swap all the wires connected to all the 696 track terminals on your layout. This will make the inside rail the Base Post and the outside rail the 7-15V Post. That way you will not have to redo all the wiring and fiber pins at the 600. It should work correctly with that change.


Thankyou i did see that but i figure d they marked it i will try thankyou four your help.
Al


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## alaft61ri

Well i tryed it. Its just the two 696 track trip. If so nothing before the bell go off. With out the yellow wire connected. Know reversed it nothing at all. There has to be somthing iam doing wrong something small just can't see it. Thanks for the help
Al


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## AmFlyer

Al, sorry, my error. I typed 696 when I meant 690! My brain knew the right number but my fingers did not cooperate.
Put the 696 wiring back the way it was. Swap the wires on the four 690 track terminals visible in the pictures from yesterday. I assume there are only 4 690's on the inner loop. You will also have to swap the wire connections on the 690's on the outer loop as well or the will be a short when the train travels between loops.


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## alaft61ri

Do you mean 690 i reread what you said i thing u mean the 690.


AmFlyer said:


> Al, sorry, my error. I typed 696 when I meant 690! My brain knew the right number but my fingers did not cooperate.
> Put the 696 wiring back the way it was. Swap the wires on the four 690 track terminals visible in the pictures from yesterday. I assume there are only 4 690's on the inner loop. You will also have to swap the wire connections on the 690's on the outer loop as well or the will be a short when the train travels between loops.


Ok not a problem. Thanks


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## alaft61ri

Well did what you say didnt work soon as i put the handle down the 600 gate goes down. So i took the 696 670 and 707 and fiber pins flipped them same thing. Dont know only is maybe 670 is bad i dont know. I will go threw and make sure the 690's wires are corrct. Aftet that i will leave it finish the other things iam hooking up. I am biding on 4 670 track trips see what happens. Once again thankyou verymuch for your help and patients.

Stay safe Al


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## AmFlyer

If you have confirmed everything is wired correctly then a bad 670 is the most likely problem.


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## alaft61ri

Ok thanks. But i will go thru everything once more. Thanks


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## alaft61ri

So today ck wires one i found on 690 was wrong fixed that doubled checked again. Then i did what u said switched wires. Soon as i turn on transformer put handle down 600 gate went down. So i swithced wires back. Then took 696 670 707 and fiber switched ed them. Same gate goes down. So i won the bid on 4 670 i will try them. I wonder if something in the gate is wrong. ???. Thanks al


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## AmFlyer

The fact that the gate goes down when track power is turned on indicates there is either: 1, power from the 7-15V Post connected to what is supposed to be the isolated 7-15V rail between the two fiber pins, 2, there is somehow an inadvertent connection from the 7-15V Post to terminal 3 on the 600 Gate, or 3, the 670 is bad.


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## alaft61ri

Ok i will ck it out. Thanks


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## alaft61ri

One other thing when the power is shut off shouldn't gate go back up. Because it stays down .


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## AmFlyer

It should go back up with no power. How do you make it go up?


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## Mikeh49

You can test the gate like this:

Connect or verify connected the black wire of the gate to the base post of the transformer
Touch the red wire of the gate to the 15V post and the gate should go down, lift the wire and the gate should go up. 
Seems to me that the gate should operate freely up and down by hand with no power. 
This might be best done with a spare transformer so it is isolated from everything else.
As a further test, touch the green wire to the 15V post and the bell should ding (once). Touch it many times momentarily and the bell should ding many times. 
Disclaimer: I have never seen a crossing gate. I did have a crossing flashers with bell that used the 696 track trips to ring the bell and flash the lights as the wheels crossed the trip. The 696 is a normally open momentary switch between the wire and the rail. They should be on the 7-15V rail.


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## AmFlyer

Mike, testing is as you say and the 696's indeed must be on the 7-15V rail. I have a 600 and never used it because it was hard to find a 670 detector/trip in working condition. Plus the can motored AM diesels, if used on the layout, do not draw enough current to provide reliable operation. The 600 has two independent functions, the gate and the bell are actuated separately. If I put a 600 on a layout now I would toss the 670 along with the fiber pins and use a Z-stuff 1070 or 1075 to actuate the gate. You likely used a 759, I have as well. They are reliable and only require one or two 696's.


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## Mikeh49

And then one could do this:










Full link here: American Flyer 759 Danger Bell and Crossing Gate Controller


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## AmFlyer

Or not...


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## Mikeh49

This video has some tips on tweaking the gate so it returns to the up position smartly.


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## AmFlyer

That is a 23601 in the video. Adding the weight may or may not work on a 600 which has an earlier design mechanism. The 23601 also does not have the upward shining light in the base that illuminates the lantern that hangs from the arm of the 600.


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## Mikeh49

I wondered about that, but thought it might be a hint in the right direction. Clearly, the mechanical linkage has to be clean and free, and there has to be enough weight to lift the arm and lantern. So that all needs to be checked.


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## alaft61ri

Lift it by hand i really think its the 600. I have the kline book and it has a break down how to take it a part.


Mikeh49 said:


> And then one could do this:
> 
> View attachment 542785
> 
> 
> Full link here: American Flyer 759 Danger Bell and Crossing Gate Controller


I have a 759 i cooked the solenoide by acidently it at portine getting recoiled. Thanyou for the info i will do it i took a chance and bid and one 670 trips hopefully there good i been working on this for a while ask amflyer he really been trying to get this to work. I thougjt this wpuld be an esdy setup guess what .not. Thanks Al


Mikeh49 said:


> I wondered about that, but thought it might be a hint in the right direction. Clearly, the mechanical linkage has to be clean and free, and there has to be enough weight to lift the arm and lantern. So that all needs to be checked.


I fixed arm the small rod that brings arm down was slightly bent once fix that the arm works. Know just waiting for the 670s i bought. Thankyou

Al


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## AmFlyer

Keep at it Al, a working 670 should fix it.


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## AmFlyer

Mike posted some information about ways to control crossing gates. As a slight diversion here is how the crossing gates on my S gauge layout work. It is moderately complicated but required no computers be used (or abused) in the process. The layout power is provided by 8 Power Districts (independent transformers.) These 8 power districts are subdivided into 70 blocks. About half of the blocks can be independently switched on and off (using LCS BPC2's.) Since multiple tracks are protected by a single set of crossing gates multiple power districts and track blocks must be able to activate the same gate. Here is how it works.
The crossing gates are Z-stuff and the block occupancy detection is with Dallee induction sensor boards. These provide flawless operation. Below is a picture of a road crossing two tracks. Looking under the layout the two Dallee boards are visible, one for each track. The outputs of these boards connect to the crossing gates. The wiring diagram is included. Positions 5 and 6 on the accessory bus is 12VDC to power the Dallee boards. Positions 13 and 14 are 14VAC to power the Z-stuff crossing gates. The track main power bus shown on the lower right is one of eight.
The setup for multiple tracks looks more complex than it is because the modern accessories are designed for many applications. A Gilbert 600 can do this but extra relays would be needed.


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## alaft61ri

Ok thankyou i will soon as the new 670s come in.


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## alaft61ri

Well boys the new 670 track trips came in so i put the 670 track trip on the right side. So i set every thing amflyer told me. And guess what hurray. Time to party thankyou every one for your input and help specially amflyer if i lived closer i buy you breakfeast. Thanks. Know can the one i started with can be fixed i have 3 more that came in with that 4 i bought. Hopefully. They r good. Thanks 

Al


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## AmFlyer

Fantastic!!! That has to feel good after all that work.


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