# layout design help



## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay so i had one of these threads before but it doesn't fit the new room setup. going to move the wood working and other building projects to the garage, and use even more of my shop for the layout. over all room dimensions are 14'x24'. Here is the layout on paper all measurements in pink are from the room in inches, stuff in green is notes for making a full room base board in Scarm. 









here is the base board in scarm the red area is a reading nook. the green is a work bench 30" by 72" and the yellow is walking space. 









I want a little of everything, but not so much worried about passenger trains.


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

well. the first thing i'm wondering is how much of this space are you planning to use? Just the green workbench patch?


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

No the white area is open for use


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I seem to recall we were working on something together once, but other than a single PM, I can't find anything (I don't recall your real e-mail address, if I ever even had it).

The offer to help is still open. PM me if you're interested.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm not sure of your 'available for layout'
dimensions. I think you are saying
that is approximately 14 X 24 feet.

One suggestion I would make would be
an L shaped layout with the longer
section on the right wall. Make the two
ends of the L maybe 5 feet wide to
accomodate wider radius curves. Let is
get slimmer on the longer side.

If you will use DCC you might consider
a single track main basically following the
edge of the benchwork with 3 or 4 passing
sidings so you can run two trains at the
same time, one clockwise, the other counter
clockwise. 

You'll also want to add a yard and several
industrial sidings.

Don


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

It would help us if you would let us know how you would like to operate your trains?

(1) Do you want to run trains continuously? Some people like this; others find it boring.

(2) Do you want to run switching operations in a yard -- moving cars around to build trains and send them to their destinations. This is a kind of a mental puzzle that some find challenging.

(3) Do you want to run a point to point layout such as logs being moved from a logging operation to a mill, then lumber moved from the mill to a lumber yard. (There are lots of other similar operations that you can model).

(4) or some combination of these.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

The main area is 16.5x14. All open no obstructions except the door on the left wall. And am considering a lift out section there as that door goes out the ally


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

For operations I want a good combination


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> I seem to recall we were working on something together once, but other than a single PM, I can't find anything (I don't recall your real e-mail address, if I ever even had it).
> 
> 
> 
> The offer to help is still open. PM me if you're interested.



Yes we did exchange a few emails. I will reply to the last one I got from you to refresh your memory.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

The big problem I am having is I don't know what the heck I want to model. Other then a mix of watching trains go around and switching. Yes I already have a DCC system


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

The space that you have available will be good
for a nice size DCC layout.

Most of us have a layout that permits continuous
running trains. But we also have yards and
spurs for industries. After a while the interest
in continuous running wanes. The real enjoyment of
your layout is when you can stage a switching
session. For that you'll want a nice big yard, and
a number of sidings where businesses that use
rail freight are located. Think small for those,
a cattle pen, a meat plant, a dairy plant, perhaps
a small food distributor. You can haul coal, and
you can haul sand and gravel in hopper cars.
Box cars are used by mills and factories An oil distributor
needs tank cars. Have a junk yard that uses
gondolas.

Note the different type of freight cars that you
have. Think what business would use those in
their shipping and receiving. It even adds to
the challenge to have more than one business
on a 'team' track.

Check the two 'stickies' in the layout design
forum. You'll get many good ideas. You may
not want any one specific layout but you can take
a yard design from one, an industrial section
from another, maybe ideas to make your main
line more interesting.

And do keep in mind. There is so much enjoyment
to be had in the many aspects of the hobby...carpentry
for the bench work, basic electric wiring, perhaps
scratch building a structure or two, then you get to
the 'dressing' of the layout, ballasting tracks, planting
lawns, fields and the like and making trees. And
if anything stumps you, our members have years and
some decades of modelling experience 
and stand ready to help out.

Don


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## santafealltheway (Nov 27, 2012)

with space like that, something along these lines would be really fun.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I put your room plan together (I'm using AnyRail). Does this look right (grid is 12" square).

Also, the upper door doesn't matter, but does the door on the left wall open in or out?


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

It opens in. Also the room divider will just be a half wall. Haven't decided on the height yet but at least 42 inches.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm putting something together, but it may be a few days.

Unless you're planning to put track over into the reading area, the height of the room divider doesn't really matter. Is track in the reading area acceptable?


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

Not really it has a 4x4 window that is just 6" from the dividing wall.


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## GK Trains (Aug 10, 2013)

How many trains do you plan on running at the same time? Are you interested in elevating at least one of the lines?


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

GK Trains said:


> How many trains do you plan on running at the same time? Are you interested in elevating at least one of the lines?


i would consider elevating.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

okay so i have made a two lvl layout in SCARM the lower lvl is 12inchs lower and is just a staging yard. 

i have attached the SCARM file and here is a picture


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

No thoughts questions or concerns?


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

redman88 said:


> No thoughts questions or concerns?


Yes. Two. Sorry for the delay replying, but I've been at camp with my boys' Scout troop. First part of the week wasn't bad, but after two days of brutal heat and humidity, the only thing I was going to do last night was eat a good meal, grab a long shower, and fall into bed!

My first comment is that you have a lot of tracks doing a lot of things, but from your plan it's difficult to tell why tracks are where they are. You might have lots of room for structures / industries, or you might not. So it would be very helpful to see how they fit into the mix.

Secondly, I'm not really sure that the lower level staging (which I assume is in the upper right where you seem to have tracks overlaying other tracks). First of all, your staging is single ended, so once a train drives down there, you will have to manually turn everything to bring it back out. Depending on the height and reach, that may get really old, really fast, especially reaching the rear-most track (or inner-most, if the back will be open) and re-railing equipment when there are trains on the intervening tracks. Also, I'm not sure about the slope. It looks like you're dropping a foot of height in about 6 feet of distance, which would give you a slope of 16.7% -- unmanageable under any circumstances. Maybe I'm reading the plan wrong?


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

CTValleyRR said:


> Yes. Two. Sorry for the delay replying, but I've been at camp with my boys' Scout troop. First part of the week wasn't bad, but after two days of brutal heat and humidity, the only thing I was going to do last night was eat a good meal, grab a long shower, and fall into bed!
> 
> My first comment is that you have a lot of tracks doing a lot of things, but from your plan it's difficult to tell why tracks are where they are. You might have lots of room for structures / industries, or you might not. So it would be very helpful to see how they fit into the mix.
> 
> Secondly, I'm not really sure that the lower level staging (which I assume is in the upper right where you seem to have tracks overlaying other tracks). First of all, your staging is single ended, so once a train drives down there, you will have to manually turn everything to bring it back out. Depending on the height and reach, that may get really old, really fast, especially reaching the rear-most track (or inner-most, if the back will be open) and re-railing equipment when there are trains on the intervening tracks. Also, I'm not sure about the slope. It looks like you're dropping a foot of height in about 6 feet of distance, which would give you a slope of 16.7% -- unmanageable under any circumstances. Maybe I'm reading the plan wrong?



The slope is 3.2 at most for the inner track as it is a double track up and down. It goes along three walls. I am thinking about a change for the left side of the lower lvl for a loop. The lower lvl is 12" bellow the upper.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

redman88 said:


> The slope is 3.2 at most for the inner track as it is a double track up and down. It goes along three walls. I am thinking about a change for the left side of the lower lvl for a loop. The lower lvl is 12" bellow the upper.


OK, that arrangement wasn't obvious from looking at the plan. Still a pretty aggressive slope, but at least manageable.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

best climb i could get that didn't go more then once around the room. and being that aggressive works into the narrative of the layout.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

CTValleyRR said:


> My first comment is that you have a lot of tracks doing a lot of things, but from your plan it's difficult to tell why tracks are where they are. You might have lots of room for structures / industries, or you might not. So it would be very helpful to see how they fit into the mix.


I agree -- although I am not a layout expert, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

It seems like you have three yards, not counting the lower level storage.

(1) The right side (above the turntable) is clearly a yard, although I can't follow the tracks in that area due to the two levels on mapped on top of each other.

(2) The left side looks like a small yard -- lots of interconnections, but the yard tracks are a little short for storing very many cars on them. If this is just an interchange area, perhaps it should be simplified. Remember, turnouts are expensive. So make sure that each one accomplishes something that you want to do that can not be accomplished without that turnout.

(3) The third yard is the left side of the center peninsula -- those three long parallel tracks. Those tracks are too close to each other (and to the edge) to be serving separate industries or stations. So I'm guessing that it is a storage yard for freight cars. But storage areas for cars (in real railroads) are usually located near interchange areas, service areas or stations.

As CTValleyRR said, what are you planning to use the different areas of your layout for?


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## time warp (Apr 28, 2016)

Man, that looks like a BUNCH of work! AND a lot of trackwork. Have fun!


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

The upper lvl is a modification of this one I found on a Facebook group.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

redman88 said:


> The upper lvl is a modification of this one I found on a Facebook group.


This helps make more sense out of our version. The dark line between the mining and the gravel plant is a scene divider that makes it appear that the two are a long distance apart. You have 3 tracks accessing your gravel plant, and that might make sense, depending on how our gravel plant operates. (I know nothing about gravel plants.)

So the middle and right sides of your layout now make sense to me. But my original questions (in post #25) about the left side remain.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

The yard in the top left corner is about 3-4 foot for each track. And my work bench is right there so I can extend the tracks another 28 inches if needed. Yes this an inter change for the layout for trains coming up from the lower yard. "Hells gate inter change" thinking that that area will be worked via camera.


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## MtRR75 (Nov 27, 2013)

redman88 said:


> The yard in the top left corner is about 3-4 foot for each track. And my work bench is right there so I can extend the tracks another 28 inches if needed. Yes this an inter change for the layout for trains coming up from the lower yard. "Hells gate inter change" thinking that that area will be worked via camera.


OK, I stand partly corrected. Your layout pic was so tall that I lost track of the yard in the upper left corner. That is fine. I was referring to the area that I think you are referring to as "Hells gate inter change". It seems overly complicated.

For example there are two adjacent connections between the two right-most sidings -- marked in red below.








I'm not sure what the second connection gives you, other than perhaps being to drop off a slightly longer set of cars onto either the upper or lower end of the right-most siding. Maybe you could eliminate one of the connections and save the cost of 2 turnouts.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

MtRR75 said:


> OK, I stand partly corrected. Your layout pic was so tall that I lost track of the yard in the upper left corner. That is fine. I was referring to the area that I think you are referring to as "Hells gate inter change". It seems overly complicated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I might have meant for one of those two sets there to go the other way.


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## redman88 (Nov 25, 2015)

I also have a hard time knowing/visualizing the space needed for industries.


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