# New England Model Railroad (NEMR)



## Overkast

Hi all. I'm new to the forum and I haven't done model-railroading since I was a young kid. I decided I wanted to get back into it, now that I'm older I could possibly do some really nice/refined modeling that I couldn't as a kid. 

As a kid I had a basic HO scale DC oval and did some nice things considering my age. But for this go I've decided to construct a 4'x8' N Scale DCC model railroad layout to try and cram more diversity into a layout. I wanted to share my plans and progress and get some feedback from you all.

*The theme:*
The railroad theme will be indicative of Connecticut rails since that's where I'm from. I've always been a huge fan of the Amtrak FP40 loco and Amfleet cars in Phase III paint scheme, so I am going to start with that set. Later, as I build up the railroad layout, I will expand to include freight using Providence & Worcester RR locos and rolling stock. The layout is small for what I want to accomplish, but I am persistent as hell to go for it anyway...

*Layout Wish List:*
-Double-track mainline
-A 3rd mainline so I can have 3 trains running at once
-A good size yard
-2 industry types w/ independent branch lines, or 1 industry theme w/ 2 branch lines where one is a start point and the other is a travel-to end point (good for operations)
-Enough terrain to somewhat obscure one scene from the next, but no poster photos divider across the middle of the layout
-A variety in grade elevations both for aesthetic purposes, but pretty much a requirement to run 3 mainlines as well
-Complete 180 degree direction reversing both ways for locos, preferably via looping and not via a wye

*Pictures:*
Here is the 1st photo, my overhead view of the track layout. I built the layout w/ SCARM and used sectional track pieces for layout accuracy, but the final construction will compose of Flex Track for all curves and odd-fitting scenarios. Some 6" straight track will be used near switches. 









In the photo above, I have highlighted all the lines, my circuit plans for each line, and my track feeder points. My plan is to have each mainline on a circuit breaker (think lighted passenger cars), and the 2 branch lines on "light bulb" breakers.

Mainline 1 and 2 will be on 0 (zero) elevation most of the run but w/ 2% inclines on the Southwest area of the table where some major switch interchanging occurs. There will be a polarity reversing loop off Mainline 1 that runs almost entirely through a tunnel under the yard on the elevated height above. I will need to cut out openings in the bottom of the table along the contour of most of the reversing loop in case a problem occurs, I can access these areas. Branch line 1 is also on the same zero elevation as the Mainlines.

On the upper elevation is where the rest of the action happens. A large rail yard with a 2 bay engine shop, a through-track in the yard for pass-through trains, Branch line 2, Mainline 3, and a ton of complex switches to make it all happen. Mainline 3 will also mostly be polarity reversing tracks since it meets up with the rail yard circuit at both the East and West ends, and the rail yard through line really acts as a 2nd looping route to get a train to reverse direction as well. I obviously can't have the rail yard circuit a polarity reversing situation, so the only alternative was to have Mainline 3 constantly polarity reversing so as not to interrupt any rail yard operations that might be happening.

You can see all my planned track feeder points as of now. I'm trying to find a balance between critical solder points, but not getting all OCD on my plans and unnecessarily over-doing it.

Below are some other pics from the 3D render feature in SCARM:

Length of the table. Far end is a mountain scene that descends into a foothill valley








Opposite angle on the layout length:








View from the back of the mountains. The cut-out with a gray box is a quarry scene with double-track gravel mill siding








And finally a view of the small river valley overpass where Mainline 1 and 2 make an appearance coming out of the Southwest tunnel portal:


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## Brian

the plans look great. When are the construction crews scheduled to move in?
Brian


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## Overkast

Thanks Brian. The benchwork is already complete - I have a table built with a piece of 1/4" plywood down with a 1" foam base on top of it. Since my funds are limited I need to slow-play this project over several years I think to spread out the costs of the project. I am going to start by first building Mainline 1 and the reversing tunnel loop running a train on that for a while, then over time I will expand and build up Mainline 2 and Branch line 1 together. After that I will start focusing on the upper level so I can get the rail yard and Branch line 2 done, and then finally Mainline 3.

I already have the track, roadbed, tunnel portals, and risers purchased for Mainline 1. I have all the wire I'll ever need for bus and feeders so I'm also set there. I need to get my plans printed out on a plotter so I can lay down a 1:1 scale printout over my table and use that as a template to start marking track positions.

I'll probably do all my bus and feeder wiring once all the track is down.


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## CTValleyRR

Hi, Overkast, and welcome. I also model Eastern CT, but the late 1950's on a fictional version of the Connecticut Valley Railroad... you may know it as the Essex Steam Train. A lot of us take a long time to finish things, a function of both life and funds. It's a very good idea to get at least some part of your layout up and running as soon as feasible, that way you can run SOME trains.

I hope your project is not overly ambitious for a newbie, although it seems like you have a good handle on things. Unfortunately, I can't see the photos (probably the work computer's settings), but it sounds like a good plan in theory. You may encounter some issues with terrain, as ours tends to be rolling and doesn't lend itself to dramatic elevation changes, and you may find yourself using grades that are tough for your equipment to manage due to the small size of your layout. I'll look again this evening and see if I can't make some more concrete recommendations.

I'm also curious as to why you've already ruled out a scenic divider, as this might help make scenery more realistic (although, when I can see the pix, that may make it obvious).

Are you heading up to the Amherst Model Railway Show this weekend? It's an amazing experience, and a Nutmegger like you won't let a little snow bother you, will you?


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## IlliniViking

Looks like a great layout. Can't wait to see the progress.


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## Overkast

Hey CTValleyRR, sorry for the delayed reply but I've been a bit busy between work and a packed weekend. Nice to meet a fellow CT resident here! Yes I am very familiar w/ the Essex Steam train (Valley RR). I didn't get up to the train show b/c I had a packed weekend schedule already, I hope it was a good time?

To answer your question about grades, I have mostly 2% grades, one 1% grade, and one 3% grade (on the connnector line from Mainline 2 to Rail Yard circuit). I plan to use the Woodland Scenics inclines for everything, but the 1% incline will be a bit of a challenge since WS doesn't make 1% inclines.

I mostly out-ruled a scenic divider because of my track layout designs. At one point I attempted drafting one going diagonally across the layout along the North side of my Rail Yard, but with the Branch Line 2 angle cutting through it and the curves on both the West and East sides of the layout, it would require too many cut-outs (and thus more tunnel scenes) to make it worthwhile.


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## DonR

You've done a great planning job. That layout will give lots of
operation fun.

My only suggestion is to see where you can fit in some more
industrial spurs. At some point you're going to want to do
switching operations. The more industries that you 'serve'
the more fun your switching will be.

My contrats on your 'polarity' matching. I really had to
do some head scratching on that bottom isolated 
section but you are correct, it is a 'polarity' situation.

Since you have three 'reverse loops' the Digitrax PM42
would seem to make most sense to control them. It can
control 4 separate 'isolated' sections.

Don


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## Overkast

Don, thanks very much for the compliments and good advice about the Digitrax PM42. I will definitely look into that now.

I know what your're saying about trying to get more industry and switching into the layout and having more fun w/ operations that way. My only concern is that I have so much already crammed in there w/ 3 mainlines, a giant yard (+ engine shop), and 2 branch lines... and trying to balance all that diversity with some mountains to try and isolate the scenes.

My best options to add another 1 or 2 industries would be to get rid of the 2 bay engine shop off the rail yard and drop an industry there, and figure out a way to cram another industry next to Branch Line 2 (which I was planning on making a big gravel mill that takes up a bunch of space w/ a quarry mountain). I would have to move both the quarry mountain and the gravel mill to clear out more space for another industry over there. This would take some savvy thinking!


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## CTValleyRR

Amherst show was great, as usual, but very under attended due to the weather. I spent Saturday and part of Sunday hosting at the Essex Steam Train booth, then spent the rest of Sunday looking around. Believe me, I know all about overprogrammed weekends.

I think you've got a good plan there. I wouldn't worry about the 1% grades. They're gradual enough that perfection is not so critical. Use a long, stiff ruler and it should come out ok.


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## DonR

I see what you mean about a space shortage when
I go back and look at the 3 dimensional views. Them
thar hills gobble up a lot of room.

You might run a spur off the 'outer' loco shop lead,
and perhaps have 2 different 'industries' on it. Keep
in mind a rail freight user need not be a big factory.
It could be a scrap yard, a small electrical supply house,
a Lumber yard, or a Less than Carload (LCL) freight house.
(they don't have these any longer but back in the era
before the 60s there was a lot of box car activity at these.)
You could have 2 or even 3 businesses on a single spur.
That also adds to the switching fun since you have to juggle
the car positions.

Don


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## Overkast

All good calls Don! I took your post to heart yesterday, and decided to hunker down and make some layout changes in SCARM after your post. You're right in that doing more spur action will prove more fun to the overall layout operations, so I got back to work to see what I could do.

I'm still making some progress but I'm about 80% done with my layout plan changes and will post pics when I'm done. But funny you should mention running a spur line off the outer engine shop lead, because I did something VERY similar to that! I actually decided to eliminate the engine shop altogether -- I felt like it was going to take up too much space for just 2 engines and it wasn't worth it. Rather, I will have my locos sitting on the smallest yard rails out in the open instead. This allows me more space overall in that tight area, and I used that space to run a spur line into that open space area to the East of where the engine shop was.

I also managed to create a 2nd spur line off the gravel mill spur line (Branch Line 2) where I can add another 1 or 2 industries as well... and in the process I was also able to simplify some of my other track configurations and eliminate a bunch of odd elevations that would require some pretty complex modeling techniques to get right. I even changed my Tunnel Reverse Loop to become a more simple straight-line tunnel that just crosses the table and reconnects to Mainline 1 on the North side.

I'm excited about the changes - thanks for the inspiration!!:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Overkast

Lots of updates to report since my last post on this thread. I have spent the last 2 weeks going from layout revisions per Don's inspiration, to laying out and finishing the track for the entire Mainline 1 loop. I still have to do the reverse polarity tunnel line that branches off Mainline 1 - I plan to nail that down this week.

Here is a before and after loop to show the layout changes I made after Don's post:









To help you understand some of the changes above, I color-coded all my inclines based on their grade percentage. In the "Before" pic, I had one 1% grade (in green), a lot of complex 2% grades (in yellow), and one critical 3% grade (in orange) that helps trains go from the low level Mainlines 1 & 2 to the upper level Mainline 3 / Rail Yard / industry sidings. In the "After" picture, I completely overhauled the inclines to reduce complexity (and minimize risk factors for operations) by doing only one simple 2% grade on the North side of Mainline 3 and still keeping the critical 3% grade for the level 1 to level 2 transition.

Here's a new scene from the East perspective showing the length of the layout. 









I'm planning to have a small river in the canyon on the left because I needed a reason to validate why a canyon was there in the first place. Making the Yard and Mainline 3 on an upper level required this canyon, so now I needed a way to validate the canyon from a terrain / construction perspective. A river was the perfect answer! The 3% grade incline will have a challenging bridge to cross the river at the midway point of the incline too.

I also mentioned in my last post that I was going to consider eliminating the 2 bay engine shop because it took up too much room considering I needed more space to create additional sidings. Well, I came up with a better solution to keep it and still have the space! I found a Walthers 3 track "car shop" that is made for train car maintenance, but I decided I would use it for both loco and rail cars. Now I have the best of both worlds 









And finally, here is a shot from the North perspective, showing the back side of the quarry mountain where Mainline 3 runs along it on an elevated height, and Mainline 1 & 2 are below. You can also see the tunnel portal that goes underneath the layout where the polarity reversal track comes off Mainline 1.









So with that, here are some pictures of my benchwork and track laying progress!

North side - Mainline 1









Close up of switches on North side of Mainline 1









My benchwork and paper templates laying out the South side Mainline 1 flex track double-curves









Close up of my paper templates for South side Mainline 1 flex track double-curves









South side Mainline 1 flex track laid, and drying with weights on top of it









I have actually made more progress than this but I need to take more photos still. I'll post again when I have them.


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## DonR

If I'm not too late coming in with another suggestion. Could you do one
more spur next to the track you'll use for loco storage? If so, you could
add a sand tower and it's associated use of a hopper full of sand, and also
a diesel fueling station (hardly more than a vertical pipe with a hose or
pipe extension, with it's associate tank on a frame. You would spot an
oil taker there next to the hopper. I have a lot of switching activity with
mine.

Don


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## Overkast

Not too late for suggestions Don, and I appreciate all the feedback I can get. I like your idea very much and I'm looking into it now.


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## Overkast

Some new progress to report. I've had a huge week; going from completing my first "oval" track lay, to soldering most feeders, adding the decoder to the loco, installing the NCE Power Cab, and finally running the loco for the first time tonight!

Complex turnout wiring









About to test the Power Cab









Running the Amtrak Phase III EMD F40PH









Down the straightaway









Rounding the bend


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## Overkast

Started laying the roadbed for Mainline 2 (left) and Reverse Polarity Tunnel Track (right)


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## IlliniViking

Coming along nicely. Love seeing the progress.


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## Overkast

Well it's been over 1 year since my last post here, but I hadn't worked on the train set all Spring, Summer, and most of Fall in 2015. So I got back into it late Fall in 2015 and I've really been happy with my progress the n last few months. Getting a little more efficient all the time, which seems to make even tedious tasks like soldering not so bad once you get good at it. The layout has gone through 18 different iterations in SCARM as well, as for one reason or another I found some real potential headache scenarios in my designs that I knew would be too difficult to pull off in real modeling. So I'm finally executing my version 18 plan at full throttle and think I'm going to be happy with the result. I am pleased to say as of last week, I completed laying, soldering, and the electrical hookup for all the track on the lower level, which accounts for about 60% of the total layout! Amtrak #396 has made her maiden test voyage on all the track to confirm electrical is working without short circuits on every section 
















I will post many more pics and updates soon!

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## Overkast

Oh and sorry about all the pics in my previous posts disappearing. I was pulling them from photobucket and I recently re-organized my photobucket library, so it must have broke all the links  I'll try to do a chronological re-cap in the next post and build it up to he point where I'm at now...


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## Overkast

Below is a pic showing some of my track layout progressions. In the early stages (v3) I had planned for a reverse loop that was completely under a tunnel beneath the upper level section in the middle of the layout. I realized eventually that was a really bad idea, in case something ever happened to a train or the track under there, I would have no good way of accessing that area without ripping the upper level apart. Even if I created a large hole or cutout on the bottom of the table along the track for access, I wouldn't be able to do any repairs due to a low 2" ceiling for the upper level foam above.

Another bad idea I eventually scrapped was having a rail yard in the middle of the layout. First off, after doing a couple of feeder solderings to some turnouts, I realized what a PITA it was soldering turnouts (5 wires per turnout, plus 2 jumpers for the closure rails!). It was hard enough doing this on the edges of my layout where most of my turnouts were planned, I could only imagine what a nightmare it would be doing a whole yard's worth of turnout soldering in the middle of my table! Not to mention, something just didn't look right with an elevated rail yard in the middle of the layout anyway, no matter what i couldn't get it to look realistic. So, I scrapped the idea and went for a smaller rail yard on the lower level where I had the most space to work with, between Mainline 2 and the 3% grade track on the southern edge.









So as you can see in v18, I still achieved most of my original wish list... I have a layout that can run 3 trains at once (3 Mainlines) and I still have an adequate rail yard to hold freight cars for operations.


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## Gramps

Very impressive, you have made great progress.


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## Overkast

Thank you Gramps  Here are some more pictures of my layout progress:

My first experiment with carving / painting foam. Just did this as a sloppy test for a culvert. I made a nicer culvert out of a foam "plate" that will slip into slots over this test carving and look real nice:








Starting to build the East Mountain elevated foam base with Southeast tunnel portals going into the mountain (also with 3% grade train bridge). The bridge is a challenging construction being on a 3% grade slope and ends going directly into a tunnel portal on the East side of the river:








Southwest view of entire layout:








East view of entire layout:








North view of progress on upper level turnouts and roadbed. All the upper level turnouts will be tricky because I have to use mini DPDT slide switches right next to them with the frog wire attached and embedded into the foam. On the lower level switches I had the luxury of building out wooden bases protruding from the table and using standard size slide switches:








And finally, one of the coolest things I've done this season... I had to protect this train layout from future damage from both children and my cat who seemed to LOVE jumping and laying on the foam all the time... I built a nice plexiglass surround! All the plexiglass is easily-removable for when I need to work on the layout:


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## /6 matt

Oh wow! Can you share with us how you constructed that plexiglass surround? I've been trying to figure out how to keep my cats off my layout when I start building.


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## Overkast

/6 matt said:


> Oh wow! Can you share with us how you constructed that plexiglass surround? I've been trying to figure out how to keep my cats off my layout when I start building.


Sure Matt! My train table is an 8' x 4' layout, and I wanted as close to 24" of height (2 feet) on the plexiglass as possible. So basically I needed these things to pull it off:

Two 1/4" thick plexiglass sheets in 48" wide x 24" tall
One 1/4" thick plexiglass sheet in 96" wide x 48" tall
One 80 tooth carbide tipped table saw blade
Jig saw with a fine tooth cutting blade (I used a 24 tooth blade)
4 Toolbox Drawer Stainless Steel Toggle Latch sets (I bought a 10 pack from Amazon here)
1 or 2 packages of 1/4" EZ-Cable Clips (bought from Home Depot here)

The 80 tooth table saw blade I only needed to use once, and it was to cut the large 96" x 48" piece of plexiglass into two 96" x 24" pieces for the long sides of the table. I plan to Ebay the saw blade since I only used it once and will likely not need it again.

I then installed all the 1/4" EZ-Cable clips around the sides of the table (flush to bottom) as these would be where the plexiglass slides into and rests:
View attachment 338458


After making the long 96"x24" cuts, I measured out all the bottom cut-outs for all the plexi panels where I needed clearance for protruding switch panels and the PowerCab panels I need access to. I used the jig saw to cut out those pieces.
View attachment 338466

^You'll notice also in this picture that I installed one of the EZ-Cable Clips sideways so it acts like a swivel - I did this to support the plexiglass panels when they have to free-stand on their own, otherwise their weight and gravity will cause the tops of them to tip outwards until they fall right out of the EZ-Cable Clips (and also bend / ruin the clip in the process).

Finally, with 2 adjoining plexi panels in place, I make a paper template to mark the screw holes for the Toggle Latches. Then I use a power drill to drill holes with a drill bit through those marks, and *very slowly / carefully screw them into the plexi by hand* (DO NOT USE A POWER DRILL to screw them in, it could crack the plexi):
View attachment 338474


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## VegasN

Nice. I must admit, it is nice to find out I am not the only one to face the cat issue.


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## bluenavigator

When I saw the "glass" enclosure, I was going "oh sh...." as I was thinking that it was so serious that it was to keep the kids out! Oh it was the cat! Make sense! Cats like to walk everywhere as they please! LOL

Glad that I do not have any cat since I am diehard dog owner! I am building an extension to my existing table, my pitbull like to jump over the middle wood bar of the table. The middle wood bar is set across horizontally, connecting both legs, just half way off from the floor, maybe 18" up. I said "No, not you, Roscoe!" No idea what motivated my pitbull to do that. 

Yep, he was named after the character from the "Duke of Hazzard."


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## Overkast

bluenavigator said:


> When I saw the "glass" enclosure, I was going "oh sh...." as I was thinking that it was so serious that it was to keep the kids out!


Actually, kids were 50% of the concern as well. Not so much my kids, because I've "instructed" them well about the train set, but we are a pretty social family so we often have other friends and kids over, and their kids run a muck in the basement. In fact, a few months ago I found the circuit board to my PowerCab panel damaged because I had left the cord plugged in it and some kid must have pulled on the cord and ripped the input away from the circuit board!  

So yeah, the plexiglass had been in my plans for a long time, it was just a matter of saving up for the project and then the cat became the final catalyst for actually doing it.


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## Overkast

Coming soon... West Mountain! (Lots more foam to buy now, though...)








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## Overkast

Starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel (pun intended ) on track-laying... Got almost all of the cork roadbed done on my layout. As of last night I finished the roadbed for Mainline 3 (on the upper level) and the logging siding. Just need to do the 2-track gravel siding now and then it's on to finish the actual track-laying. Soon I'll be working on my bridges!
View attachment 338506

View attachment 338514


I'm also trying out this new product for sealing the gaps in my foam, called Gardner "Flex n' Fill" - it claims to be a spackle compound but it dries with flexibility, so it is crack-resistant. Sandable, paintable, and will flex with mild movement of the foam. So far so good, I really like it!
View attachment 338522


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## Gramps

And the Flex-N-Fill folks took the time to advise people, in both English and Spanish, not to "ingest" their product in case you wanted to spread some on crackers while working.


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## VegasN

Or feed it the "pets" jumping on our layouts.


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## Overkast

Made some more progress. The GREAT news is that I FINALLY finished soldering every turnout on my layout! Man am I glad to be done with those!!!:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown: Such a PITA.

I'm nearly done with all my track laying as well, and so it's time to start working on my 4 bridges to finalize the track laying. 3 bridges I am using 3/4" thick MDF board and I am going to scratch-build plate girders for the sides and make them all deck girder bridges:







You can see in that pic that I'm also finally working on my first rock sculpting in the foam. That area on the right will have a small pond and a tiny waterfall down the rocks that lead the water into the pond. The pond will empty off to the left, into the main river.

The 4th bridge spans the river on the 3% grade going along the south edge of the layout. It's so close to the edge of the layout that I don't want to do an open deck girder bridge, so I am going to do a truss bridge there instead to help protect the trains from falling off the table in case of a derailment.

Other angles of the progress:


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## Overkast

Just realized I documented some bridge layout progress in another thread a few weeks ago and I should have updated my layout thread here too. Some other progress to report as well...

Made my first scratch-built deck girder bridge using various sizes of styrene:




































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## Overkast

Did some experimenting with rail painting the other day. Using 2 colors mostly, a darker muddy brown for the mainlines (back rail in pic) and a rusty brown for sidings / yards / guard rails (front rail in pic):








Some pics of painted turnouts (the 2 in the background vs the 1 in the foreground not painted):








Close up:








Birdseye:








I also did the GLEAM method on a small section of the track and a turnout as well. I noticed an improvement on the electrical pickup for sure... my loco crept through the turnout at 1 mph without stalling which was pretty awesome.

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## Overkast

And for my final update for now, I'm in the middle of building some railroad crossings as my new focus:








I have 3 bridges crossing this river valley where there will be also be a small town center with a few structures in between some of the bridges:








I came to realize that once I finish the bridges, they will be a major obstruction to my reach in the middle to do some things with terrain and landscaping. So I decided that finishing the road that cuts through this valley and then focusing on preparing the terrain in this area is paramount progress for me before I can resume working on / finishing the bridges.

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## VegasN

Very nice. I am enjoying watching it take shape.


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## Gramps

You're attention to detail is amazing.


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## Overkast

Glad you guys are enjoying seeing the (albeit sometimes slow) progress.



Gramps said:


> You're attention to detail is amazing.


Wow, that's a huge compliment... thanks so much Gramps! I really appreciate that.


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## Overkast

Well I have some more updates to report on the progress of my layout. I nearly completed the road through my river valley with the intention of being able to work on the village center in the middle of the layout BEFORE I completed my 4 bridges. But as I got to that point, I realized a major aspect of "completing" that village center was to also complete the mountain / mountainside next to the river that cuts through that valley. So in order to complete the mountain, I had to work on at least 1 bridge first, because that bridge's tracks will join at rail joiners *inside* the mountain (since the bridge ends right at a tunnel portal). So I needed to finish this bridge to ensure all my track measurements and cuts were spot on, so all I have to do once the mountain is built up is join the track inside through a back-of-the-mountain access point.

Amazing how the little nuances of layout planning affects where you spend your time on at any given day.

So needless to say my attention was now diverted on completing the truss bridge for my 3% grade track on the perimeter of the layout. I documented the entire process of modding 2 Kato Unitrack truss bridges for Code 55 in it's own thread here if you're curious. Here are some pictures of the nearly final product:

















































I still have a bit more to do with adding guard rails and guard timbers on the track ties, and also adding some paint chipping to the rust color of the bridge... but this is far enough along for me to move on at this point.

So before I resume focus on building up the mountain the rest of the way, I decided to also complete the hillside for the 3% grade that leads up to the new truss bridge. This was easy pickins' since it's just a small piece of terrain that "implies" a bigger hill our mountain that exists off the layout, and we are just seeing the foot of that hill or mountain enter into the layout right at the point where the track is sloping up that hillside:

















Carving the rock wall with my razor knife:









"Pressing" the top edges of the hill with a small screw driver stem to give natural curvature shape to the edges of the rock cliffs:









A perspective view down the grade:









A close-up of the rock cliff texture detail:









The nearly-completed terrain shaping:









My last step to this area before I finally move back on to the mountain will be my first experiment in terrain painting!


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## VegasN

Amazing!!


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## geekchris

This is very impressive. You did an amazing job weathering the concrete bridge pier!


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## Overkast

Thanks guys! Appreciate the kind words.


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## Lemonhawk

Considering how that pier turn out, I can't wait to seen what those foam cliffs will look like!


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## Overkast

Lemonhawk said:


> Considering how that pier turn out, I can't wait to seen what those foam cliffs will look like!


I will do my best to live up to your expectations!  

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## Overkast

Didn't want to paint tonight so I worked on a scratch-built brick retaining wall using some woodland scenic foam instead. There will be a yard house trailer and some other rail yard things in this area, so I wanted a retaining wall look vs. natural rock cliffs.










I used a ruler and pencil tip to indent the foam making straight lines for the brick pattern. Will paint and weather these before gluing them to the incline wall...










































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## jlc41

Very nice layout and attention to detail. Keep the pic's coming I am learning a lot from your approach.


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## Overkast

jlc41 said:


> Very nice layout and attention to detail. Keep the pic's coming I am learning a lot from your approach.


Awesome! Glad to hear that  I will definitely keep the pics coming.


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## RonthePirate

VERY nice, Overkast! Your work is really precise looking.

I especially like the way you made the bricks in the retaining wall to fit together.
That's genius! I never even thought of that when I did mine.
Little details like that are wonderful!

One thing I happened to see. Did you build that double span truss bridge?
(Beautiful bridges, by the way)
Reason I ask, is, it looks very narrow. But I also ask because I built mine very narrow also.








But now I feel I didn't do wrong for such a narrow width.

EDIT: I just read that you used Kato truss bridges.
Sorry, I missed that earlier.


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## VegasN

Excellent work Overkast! I too am getting ideas from your work.....in my neck of the woods we call this "biting" your style 

Hey, I did want to ask though, if I may, that Woodland Scenics foam? What is that? Is it like Styrene, or more like the foam boards that have foam in between poster boards? I need N Scale brick walls.


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## Overkast

RonthePirate said:


> VERY nice, Overkast! Your work is really precise looking.
> 
> I especially like the way you made the bricks in the retaining wall to fit together.
> That's genius! I never even thought of that when I did mine.
> Little details like that are wonderful!
> 
> One thing I happened to see. Did you build that double span truss bridge?
> (Beautiful bridges, by the way)
> Reason I ask, is, it looks very narrow. But I also ask because I built mine very narrow also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But now I feel I didn't do wrong for such a narrow width.
> 
> EDIT: I just read that you used Kato truss bridges.
> Sorry, I missed that earlier.


Thanks for the compliments Ron! 

I think your bridge looks great from what I can tell from that pic. Did you scratch build that yourself or use a kit, or mod an existing structure?

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## AmtrackJim

*Eastern CT Railroad*

I like your brick retaining walls. Can you give a little more info as to what thickness Woodland Scenic foam you used and how you came up with the measurements for marking both horizontal and vertical bricks in HO scale? What did you use for paint and weathering? I have a lot to make and this is the first idea I have seen to cover a large area. Thanks in advance


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Excellent work Overkast! I too am getting ideas from your work.....in my neck of the woods we call this "biting" your style
> 
> Hey, I did want to ask though, if I may, that Woodland Scenics foam? What is that? Is it like Styrene, or more like the foam boards that have foam in between poster boards? I need N Scale brick walls.


Thanks Vegas! I'm truly humbled to hear I am inspiring people with my work.

I used the 1/4" foam sheet from the Woodland Scenics modeling foam variety pack (shown here: http://www.activepowersports.com/wo...EwLEE69W9MIY3Y322txmuoYVo0HXEHKZdYBoCewPw_wcB).

They are not hard styrene sheets, but rather a softer foam which can easily be dented if you're not careful... which also makes them perfect for easily creating subtle hand-sketched details.

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## Overkast

AmtrackJim said:


> I like your brick retaining walls. Can you give a little more info as to what thickness Woodland Scenic foam you used and how you came up with the measurements for marking both horizontal and vertical bricks in HO scale? What did you use for paint and weathering? I have a lot to make and this is the first idea I have seen to cover a large area. Thanks in advance


Hey AmtrakJim, thank you as well. I posted the foam info above in my reply to Vegas, but as far as knowing what size to make the brick I just went off of measurements from one of the pre-made abutments I bought recently. The horizontal lines were about 1/8" apart and the vertical lines to determine brick width was about 5/16" wide. I haven't painted the wall yet but I'm trying to get to that today or this weekend at least.

To paint, I will use a combination of cheap Walmart / Michael's acrylic paints to create a base color, then I use soft pastels shaved down to powders (+ water and / alcohol to thin them) to create weathering discolor. I will seal it all at the end with a clear matte spray.

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## Overkast

Started painting the wall tonight, got it flat gray. Weathering to follow this week.










Started working with Sculptamold for the first time tonight... not sure if i mixed it right or how I feel about it. Seemed like an odd texture to work with. But it should fill in the gaps adequately at least.

























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## VegasN

Amazing!! And thank you for the info.....gonna check that out.


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## RonthePirate

Overkast said:


> Thanks for the compliments Ron!
> 
> I think your bridge looks great from what I can tell from that pic. Did you scratch build that yourself or use a kit, or mod an existing structure?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Thank you for that, Overkast! 
It's scratch built.
When I was younger, I scratch built everything: rolling stock, buildings, bridges, you name it.
But this is my first attempt in over 40 years!  

















I put in another pic, closer up, plus another bridge and the rest of the trestle going to the new coal station.
You can't see much detail on that other bridge, but it's basically the same design, with beams underneath for support.
Those concrete columns are 1" thick foam, cut to shape, with a wood piece on top for stability.
I scored them with a metal ruler's edge to give it the brick looks.
Not quite finished, but I have high hopes it will succeed!


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## VegasN

Looking good Ron. Someday I need to make a trek out there and see it in person.


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## RonthePirate

VegasN said:


> Looking good Ron. Someday I need to make a trek out there and see it in person.


More than welcome. We got beer or root beer, whatever your choice!


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## Overkast

RonthePirate said:


> Thank you for that, Overkast!
> It's scratch built.
> When I was younger, I scratch built everything: rolling stock, buildings, bridges, you name it.
> But this is my first attempt in over 40 years!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put in another pic, closer up, plus another bridge and the rest of the trestle going to the new coal station.
> You can't see much detail on that other bridge, but it's basically the same design, with beams underneath for support.
> Those concrete columns are 1" thick foam, cut to shape, with a wood piece on top for stability.
> I scored them with a metal ruler's edge to give it the brick looks.
> Not quite finished, but I have high hopes it will succeed!


Wow, yeah really nice job on that truss bridge Ron! Scratch building truss and wooden bridge piers is something I don't have the patience for, so I commend you for both that and for how well it turned out.

I had also contemplated doing my bridge pier out of foam and then doing brick texture on it, but being so close to the edge of the layout I wanted something a little more sturdy... so I decided to use medium density fiberboard instead and go with a concrete pier look.

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## RonthePirate

Good choice in materials.
But you'd be surprised at how strong those piers really are!
I know I was. Sure, you can't stand on them.
But every one of my engines have passed over them without them even slightly bending.
They do not move.

Oh, just re-read the "next to the edge" part. Yeah, then I can understand you wanting something rigid.
And thank you again for the compliments. I guess I'm lucky that I do have the patience for that type of work.
Especially hand-sawing all the ties in those bridges.
And I pre-paint a lot of pieces. Ever try painting these things when they're complete?
Gotta say, it's boring and routine sometimes.
But the end result is worth it.

Oh! Before I forget, let me compliment you on that girder bridge. Now that is a work of art!
Did you use styrene as the sides. or is that something else?
And how did you get the cuts for the small supports so perfect?


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## Overkast

Thanks again Ron for the compliment, this time of the deck girder bridge  Yes I used a combination of 2 different size styrenes for that bridge. I used four 0.060 pieces to make the the body of the bridge and then cut strips out of 0.015 styrene to make the small ribs. I documented the process in more depth starting on page 2 of this thread, which started out as a guard rail thread but then evolved into my deck girder bridge build 

When you ask about the cuts I made, are you referring to the slits for the ribs on the left side of this pic?:










If yes, I used my fine razor / modeler's saw to make those cuts in the styrene and then added super glue to the cuts to hold the 0.015 ribs. Once I had all the ribs and the bottom sheet in place, I used a hand sander to sand all the ribs down so they were flush and smaller in depth (not protruding out so much).



RonthePirate said:


> Ever try painting these things when they're complete?
> Gotta say, it's boring and routine sometimes.
> But the end result is worth it.


Yeah, but I actually enjoy the painting part of this hobby! That's when you feel like the layout is finally coming to life. I'd rather be painting and detailing than doing all the electric work under the table... that is a PITA!


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## Overkast

Well I finally had a chance to experiment with my first rock painting experience. Since this was my virgin attempt I wanted to work on a small section and not do the entire length of the 3% grade rock wall just yet.

I started off by mixing a watered-down black paint into a fine tip bottle with a needle-point opening. Then I wet the surface of the rock formation with water mist from a spray bottle. I dabbed drops of the runny black paint at the top and in crevices and let the paint run down the rock formation. The wet surface helps the black paint spread out some onto the rocks too:









I used this technique until I got enough black paint coverage to darken the gray color on the rock formations. Then I started blending in the brown dirt at the top of the cliff into the rock grays:









I then used a combination of earth-color pastel powders to really darken the rocks to a brownish color:









I used black pastel powder in between the crevices of the rocks to deepen the shadows and make the rocks stand out more:

















But after this point, I felt I had gone a little overboard with the dark colors, as I still wanted a hint of lighter gray / slate color to highlight the rocks. So I decided this morning to go over a bunch of areas with a watered-down gray light wash on the surface:









Finally, I went back over a few areas very carefully with more earth tone pastel powders and darkened the crevices with black pastel powder. I am very happy with the final result!!!


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## bluenavigator

Nice technique! Looking good... no no.... looking awesome! 

Can't wait to do mine!


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## Gramps

Excellent work and good explanation.


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## Overkast

Thanks guys! Can't wait to add some Woodland Scenics materials to get it looking even better (but I'm pretty far off from that point still).


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## Overkast

Started the long rock wall... only got the base layer of watered-down runny black paint done, but still looks decent already:
















I think this time I'm gonna slow play the powders a bit and try to avoid heavy use of darks and see how that technique works out.

A shot of one of the small runoff "creek" beds. There's 3 of them total and I plan to add a bit of running water appearance eventually:









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## jlc41

Nice work, you are on the mark getting the shades and tone. To have light you add dark to have dark you add light. Keep the pics coming.


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## VegasN

Man, that is beautiful work......very inspiring!


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## Lemonhawk

Did you do anything to the foam to prep it? Do you use any dull-cote over the entire rock after your satisfied with the color? Keep up the information flow!


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## DaveCo

Looks awesome. I can't wait to start scenery on my layout.


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## Mark VerMurlen

Looks great! I look forward to seeing each of your posts to track the progress on your layout.

Mark


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## Overkast

Thanks all for the high praises, I'm glad you are enjoying my layout progress and even getting some inspirations from it! This is so much more fun than track and electrical work 



Lemonhawk said:


> Did you do anything to the foam to prep it?


Lemonhawk, yes I did a few things to prepare the foam for painting. I also skipped 1 step of preparation because these cliffs are inward-facing on the layout and you have to lean over the table and look at them upside down to see them up close, so it wasn't a critical step. But my prep process is as follows:

After I used my razor blade to carve the rock textures, I take a coarse-grit sandpaper and go over the surface *VERY lightly* just to break off any tiny foam pieces that are loosely hanging off the edges and don't look very "rock-like".
(Skipped step) Because I build up hills in layers of 1" foam, the horizontal breaks between the layers are usually visibly obvious and don't look natural. So I cover over those gaps with a putty and try to dab it in a way that also looks like rock texture. That way once painted you'd never know the difference between foam and putty.
Then I took a cheap gray "chalkboard" paint I got from Michael's for $2.50 and just paint the entire surface of the rocks with this flat gray. I opt for chalkboard paint because it dries matte and with no shine, so it also receives pastel powders very well.



Lemonhawk said:


> Do you use any dull-cote over the entire rock after your satisfied with the color?


Yes, always - and apologies I forgot to mention that at the end of my previous posts! Because I am finishing the detailing with pastel powders, it is paramount to spray a dull cote on them to keep them adhered to the surface over time and never rub off. It is also to be expected that some of the pastel color dilutes and fades just a bit once they get wet from the dull cote spray, so you have to either:

Make sure you are generous with the accent color powders, because they will fade a bit, or
Wait for the dull cote to dry, and re-touch surface with more powders, and re-spray

Here are all the products I used for the rock weathering:








Everything was bought at Michael's and was not expensive.


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## Overkast

A little more progress over lunch time today 

As stated in one of my previous posts, I changed my technique a bit to try and not go so dark over all the rock. The key I think is concentrating the black powders really into crevice areas and make sure I'm not reckless with it and having it get onto the protruding surfaces without care. So the secret formula which seems to be working here is that I'm using black pastel powder for 90% of the coverage, but applying generously in crevices and very lightly / with care on protruding surfaces. Then I'm simply going over spots here and there with a mix of light and dark brown powders. Seems to be looking pretty good!










Looking at this picture you can kind of see the difference between my 1st and 2nd approaches:








I'm kind of liking the 2nd approach and feeling like the first attempt is still too dark now, so I'm trying to decide if I want to re-do my first attempt from scratch or just leave it alone.


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## redman88

Put your bridge back up there and see if looks like that first section is in the shadow of the bridge.


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## VegasN

I agree Dave, I love the scenery part.....


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## Overkast

redman88 said:


> Put your bridge back up there and see if looks like that first section is in the shadow of the bridge.


Redman, that's a very astute observation... great call. And your wish is my command 

With the bridge in place it looks pretty decent from most angles:

















This is the only solid angle I could come up with a noticeable difference... but you have to be looking for it to notice it:








I also think not having the brown dirt blended is creating an optical illusion stumbling-block for perception of the eye. The coloring might be closer than they appear at a glance, but the risk is actually at the tunnel portal on the opposite side of the river valley gap... because if I apply the 2nd weathering technique to that side (and the rest of the layout) then this one small section might stick out like a sore thumb in contrast. 

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## redman88

Any reason you couldn't put in some scrub brush along the edge?


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## Overkast

redman88 said:


> Any reason you couldn't put in some scrub brush along the edge?


Yeah I don't actually have any scrub brush scenery materials yet. Also I do have a scenery plan for this section and not sure how much scrub brush it will involve - I want to put a bunch of trees at the top of the cliffs as if there was a bunch of woods on this hilltop. I want to make it as realistic as I can though - for example, I want to simulate dead / fallen leaf coverage on the ground like the woods really have, so I plan on doing a technique I've seen of using a coffee grinder to actually grind up real leaves into fine pieces and using that on the ground for these "woods".

The look I'm going for on my layout is going to be heavily-wooded mountainsides (except where there are exposed rock faces). But I don't want to start dealing with trees and excessive detail until I can get enough done in the center of my layout, because the center is the hardest to reach area and I don't want to end up knocking over trees and the truss bridge with my reach. So I'm doing just enough here with painting so I can finally ballast this section of track and be done with it (for the short term).


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## RonthePirate

Sorry I haven't been to visit this thread in awhile.
I admit, I really missed a lot! Your work is better than good.
It's real-looking. I think that's the apex of the compliment pecking order!

I guess you're going to make a dense forest out of the brown patch on top of the rock wall.
I like the idea of grinding up the leaves to make.........well, little leaves.

The tandem bridges look like they were meant for that spot.
The color is right too, not only fits right in, but again, looks real.

Are you going to make or buy a backdrop? That would be the crowning glory to your achievements.
I made a big mistake of not doing a backdrop before I got almost finished with my setup.
The way my layout is designed, I cannot move it. It's custom fit between the walls and will not move.
And if I can even try to put one up, I'll have to go through two access holes I made.
Even with those, I still can't reach the corners of the tables.

I am going to try though. I just worry that I'm going to destroy something.
I have to do a backdrop. The hills and scenery are good till you hit the white walls, as visible on page 6.
Ewwww...........

EDIT: and I agree with you that it's way better than wiring. My knees hurt!
But I love laying track. To me, that shows the most progress of any of the building steps.


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## Lemonhawk

The transition disappears with the bridge in place. Hard for me to say whether I like the darker or lighter rock, I think you have to be there so its your call but you can leave it alone as its not noticeable with the bridge in place. Besides everyone will have their eyes glued on that central pier your did - that's looks spectacular!


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## MtRR75

Overkast said:


> I'm kind of liking the 2nd approach and feeling like the first attempt is still too dark now, so I'm trying to decide if I want to re-do my first attempt from scratch or just leave it alone.


First, an outstanding job. Some people naturally have artistic skills, and some don't. You do, and I don't. But I have a good eye for what natural areas should look like, because I spent a lot of time in woods and streams in my career as a plant ecologist.

Second. I would not try to make the 1st area look like the 2nd area. Looking at your layout from a historical perspective, the 2nd area was probably cut when the railroad was built. The 1st area was probably much older -- either from an earlier construction project or by natural erosion processes over millions of years. So there is a reason for the different appearances.

If you think the transition is too abrupt, you could try lightening just the edge of area #1 that borders on area #2 (or darkening the edge of area #2 that borders on area #1) -- making a smoother transition between the two areas. Also, once you "plant" some weeds growing in the cracks of the rocks, the differences should be less obvious.

Third, in the areas where the streams are going to wash over the long wall, the rocks next to the streams should be a little darker than the rest of the long wall. Rocks next to a stream stay wet longer, and wetness darkens rock color. You might also add more green moss to the rocks around the streams, since moss grows more where it is wetter.


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## Overkast

RonthePirate said:


> Your work is better than good.
> It's real-looking. I think that's the apex of the compliment pecking order!


Wow, I am flattered Ron - thank you so much!!!



RonthePirate said:


> Are you going to make or buy a backdrop? That would be the crowning glory to your achievements.


I don't think I'm going to make any backdrops, because it's an 8x4 table layout with turnout throw operations on all 4 sides. So since I would have to move all around the table, I am constantly on the "outside, lookin-in" perspective on the layout so having a scenery wall up in front of me would be a major annoyance. Also, I have a few turnouts in the middle of the table where the throw switch is right next tot he turnout, so I'll need to reach across the layout to get to them. It would be extra annoying trying to do this with a backdrop wall in my way 



RonthePirate said:


> I made a big mistake of not doing a backdrop before I got almost finished with my setup.
> The way my layout is designed, I cannot move it. It's custom fit between the walls and will not move.
> And if I can even try to put one up, I'll have to go through two access holes I made.
> Even with those, I still can't reach the corners of the tables.
> 
> I am going to try though. I just worry that I'm going to destroy something.
> I have to do a backdrop. The hills and scenery are good till you hit the white walls, as visible on page 6.
> Ewwww...........


You definitely should try, because I also think backdrop walls are an excellent aesthetic when you have the right conditions for them (such as your layout being against a wall). One suggestion I have for you to achieve this could be to have your backdrop print ready, and use spray adhesive across the back of it. Then reach across the layout and lay your backdrop front-side-down so the bottom edge of the backdrop paper just touches the wall. Still facing down, slide the backdrop to get the left side of the paper to hit the adjacent wall so now you have the bottom and 1 side flush with the 2 walls. Then simply get you hands under the paper and start curving the top towards the wall while the bottom stays flush. As the paper gets close to the wall, start pressing the bottom first to stick against the wall and move your hand upwards towards the top so your pressure sticks the paper to the wall from the bottom, up.

All you need to be able to do this is get enough reach across your table. If you can stand on a chair and maybe lean on the table with one arm while you reach across with the other, you can probably pull it off.


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## Overkast

MtRR75 said:


> First, an outstanding job. Some people naturally have artistic skills, and some don't. You do, and I don't. But I have a good eye for what natural areas should look like, because I spent a lot of time in woods and streams in my career as a plant ecologist.
> 
> Second. I would not try to make the 1st area look like the 2nd area. Looking at your layout from a historical perspective, the 2nd area was probably cut when the railroad was built. The 1st area was probably much older -- either from an earlier construction project or by natural erosion processes over millions of years. So there is a reason for the different appearances.
> 
> If you think the transition is too abrupt, you could try lightening just the edge of area #1 that borders on area #2 (or darkening the edge of area #2 that borders on area #1) -- making a smoother transition between the two areas. Also, once you "plant" some weeds growing in the cracks of the rocks, the differences should be less obvious.
> 
> Third, in the areas where the streams are going to wash over the long wall, the rocks next to the streams should be a little darker than the rest of the long wall. Rocks next to a stream stay wet longer, and wetness darkens rock color. You might also add more green moss to the rocks around the streams, since moss grows more where it is wetter.


Thank you MtRR75 as well for the compliments, and great insight into rock coloring. I had the same in mind regarding wet rocks, but I like your theory about attempt #1 being an "older" cut which may have had more time for erosion and discolor... that's a great thought.

I'm going to finish the rest of the long face and also try blending the brown dirt at the top to see if that makes any difference in my perception. If it doesn't look too bad I might just leave it, but if not I might take your suggestion about darkening or lightening the transition point between the 2 attempt areas to make a smooth transition.

I think what I really need to do is also do the rock face on the other side of the valley (where the bridge goes into the mountain tunnel) with style #2 and see how much the opposite rock face styles clash with each other.


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## Overkast

Did a little foam work on the mountain (just adding one layer) and some weathering on one of the retaining walls tonight...


























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## VegasN

You know overkast......I not only admire your layout/modeling skills......I am supremely jealous of your patience...
If it was me working on that layout, I would be crawling out of my skin wanting it done......oh I sure hope this hobby gets me a little more patient. Its hard when your entire life has been fast moving, quick results driven, progress dependent.....to take on a project of this speed.


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> You know overkast......I not only admire your layout/modeling skills......I am supremely jealous of your patience...
> If it was me working on that layout, I would be crawling out of my skin wanting it done......oh I sure hope this hobby gets me a little more patient. Its hard when your entire life has been fast moving, quick results driven, progress dependent.....to take on a project of this speed.



Thank you so much Vegas. And you are right - oftentimes I do have this inner struggle of impatience as well, but my inner artist and OCD nature kind of battles that and keeps it at bey, because I'm also the type of person who hates doing / re-doing something twice. So I really try to spend a ton of time thinking and planning before I even pick up the tools and start working. Sometimes I'll just stand there and stare at my layout literally for like an hour, just thinking about the big picture of what needs to be done still, what are the obstacles to achieve it, and thus where should I focus my attention as the next step.

The good part is that I decided to start doing this hobby 2 years ago when my work-life stress had hit an all-time high and I seriously needed a wintertime outlet to channel my energy into. So the longer / slower this project takes the longer it will also be a stress outlet as well


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## RonthePirate

Overkast said:


> Thank you so much Vegas. And you are right - oftentimes I do have this inner struggle of impatience as well, but my inner artist and OCD nature kind of battles that and keeps it at bey, because I'm also the type of person who hates doing / re-doing something twice. So I really try to spend a ton of time thinking and planning before I even pick up the tools and start working. Sometimes I'll just stand there and stare at my layout literally for like an hour, just thinking about the big picture of what needs to be done still, what are the obstacles to achieve it, and thus where should I focus my attention as the next step.
> 
> The good part is that I decided to start doing this hobby 2 years ago when my work-life stress had hit an all-time high and I seriously needed a wintertime outlet to channel my energy into. So the longer / slower this project takes the longer it will also be a stress outlet as well


Oh yeah. You hit every nail on the head with this post.

Just building my train room was a stress reliever. Now working on the trains is just as good, if not better.

And yes: do it right the first time.

Last: you said you had a lot of pink showing. True.
But what you have is real works of art in the making. I marvel at that upgrade in the pic where you dragged every can of paint you owned to hold that foam down!  
I have yet to see foam cut to that degree of precision. a perfect circle-shape.
Like VegasN says, I'm jealous of your patience also.


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## Overkast

Happy (slightly-belated) independence day. Just got back from a holiday trip and did a bit more work tonight... 

put the ceiling on the other tunnel portal:









made a temporary train car catcher for inside-the-mountain derailments:

















completed weathering the other half of the retaining wall and glued the entire retaining wall up:

























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## VegasN

Love it.....


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## jlc41

Very awe inspiring, beautiful work.


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## Mr.Buchholz

Tunnels and tunnels and tunnels and tunnels......

:lol_hitting:

-J.

(P.S. awesome work!)


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## VegasN

I guess as long as there is a light at the end of each one....


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## Overkast

LOL, so true... I do have a ton of tunnels planned on this layout. I guess that's just the nature of the beast of cramming an aggressive track layout into a mountain setting on a 4'x8' space


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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> LOL, so true... I do have a ton of tunnels planned on this layout. I guess that's just the nature of the beast of cramming an aggressive track layout into a mountain setting on a 4'x8' space


Tunnels are cool!

I don't have to tell you that there are is only one transportation tunnel in Connecticut, and it's not a rail tunnel, right?


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## Overkast

CTValleyRR said:


> I don't have to tell you that there are is only one transportation tunnel in Connecticut, and it's not a rail tunnel, right?


Not true! There are 2 active rail tunnels in CT, but only one is in eastern CT:
Pequabuck Tunnel (Plymouth, CT)
Taft Tunnel (Lisbon, CT)

*HOWEVER*, I will say that you have touched on something that I have been silently struggling with for several months now. Originally I wanted to model an "Eastern CT" theme not only because that is where I live, but I also do find the Providence & Worcester and the NECR railroads' schemes attractive and I particularly think the New London/Norwich/Willimantic rail line is a fascinating stretch of terrain and cool short-line of operation.

However, the serious shortfalls to matching my layout design to anything in CT is that this state is so friggin' small that it does not offer a huge plethora of diverse rail industry nor are the railroad schemes easily attainable for purchase 

Another caveat is that I truly love the state of Vermont - I think it's a gorgeous state terrain-wise, and I love how it still offers a lot of small-scale "local business" type industries. And as I model this layout of mine, I often find myself thinking of it as a Vermont scene rather than something indicative of Connecticut.

Quite the dilemma, huh??? 

My latest thought is that maybe I should re-theme this layout to a "New England" railroad instead, which would help spread out the themed area which would justify covering a few various industries, a lot of mountainous terrain, and also a pretty diverse track offering. I'm thinking these tunnels could also be the imaginary "boundaries" between states over a long distance as well. So for example, perhaps the upper level quarry and forestry (logs) supply industries in the mountains could be northern New England industries, and then getting to the lower levels where the deliveries are (the Sawmill, gravel dump, and lumber delivery) could all be lower states in New England.


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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> Not true! There are 2 active rail tunnels in CT, but only one is in eastern CT:
> Pequabuck Tunnel (Plymouth, CT)
> Taft Tunnel (Lisbon, CT)
> 
> *HOWEVER*, I will say that you have touched on something that I have been silently struggling with for several months now. Originally I wanted to model an "Eastern CT" theme not only because that is where I live, but I also do find the Providence & Worcester and the NECR railroads' schemes attractive and I particularly think the New London/Norwich/Willimantic rail line is a fascinating stretch of terrain and cool short-line of operation.
> 
> However, the serious shortfalls to matching my layout design to anything in CT is that this state is so friggin' small that it does not offer a huge plethora of diverse rail industry nor are the railroad schemes easily attainable for purchase
> 
> Another caveat is that I truly love the state of Vermont - I think it's a gorgeous state terrain-wise, and I love how it still offers a lot of small-scale "local business" type industries. And as I model this layout of mine, I often find myself thinking of it as a Vermont scene rather than something indicative of Connecticut.
> 
> Quite the dilemma, huh???
> 
> My latest thought is that maybe I should re-theme this layout to a "New England" railroad instead, which would help spread out the themed area which would justify covering a few various industries, a lot of mountainous terrain, and also a pretty diverse track offering. I'm thinking these tunnels could also be the imaginary "boundaries" between states over a long distance as well. So for example, perhaps the upper level quarry and forestry (logs) supply industries in the mountains could be northern New England industries, and then getting to the lower levels where the deliveries are (the Sawmill, gravel dump, and lumber delivery) could all be lower states in New England.


Well, there you go. I stand corrected! That said, I originally thought Wikipedia was wrong, in that the DOT was the source of my information on the West Rock Tunnel. However, rereading that blurb just now with my new found knowledge, it is obvious that DOT is referring to PASSENGER transport, not ANY transport. So I have learned something today! That makes it a good day!

I don't know HOW prototypical you want to get. Certainly Willimantic had a ton of textile mills that received raw cotton and shipped all kinds of stuff out. 

I know how you feel, though. I myself am using "could have been" settings, not authentic ones, for my mid-1950's CT Valley line. The first stretch I had to make was the Valley Line itself. It was never much more than a busy branch line, with mostly passenger traffic. I hypothesize that the hurricane of 1955 caused a lot of damage to the Shore Line, and the NH found it expeditious to route freight up the Valley Line to Middletown, thence back to Cedar Hill north of New Haven. For authentic industries, I am modeling the steamship dock in Old Saybrook and passenger stops at Goodspeed Landing and Middletown, even though none of these were in use by the mid 1950's. I model the coal fired power plant at Laurel (just south of Middletown), which receives hoppers from off-layout via Cedar Hill (staging). This is the only authentic industry & train route on the map. 

For the fudges, I have moved the piano factory in Ivoryton 3 miles west and made it rail served (it never was), but this lets me model a stereotypical New England brick mill. I moved the brownstone quarry across the river from Portland to Middletown and made it rail served, and have a winery, dairy farm, lumber yard, and small lumber mill, all good Connecticut industries, but none of them, historically, on the Valley Line.

Sounds like you should go generic New England and model what floats your boat.


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> Not true! There are 2 active rail tunnels in CT, but only one is in eastern CT:
> Pequabuck Tunnel (Plymouth, CT)
> Taft Tunnel (Lisbon, CT)
> 
> *HOWEVER*, I will say that you have touched on something that I have been silently struggling with for several months now. Originally I wanted to model an "Eastern CT" theme not only because that is where I live, but I also do find the Providence & Worcester and the NECR railroads' schemes attractive and I particularly think the New London/Norwich/Willimantic rail line is a fascinating stretch of terrain and cool short-line of operation.
> 
> However, the serious shortfalls to matching my layout design to anything in CT is that this state is so friggin' small that it does not offer a huge plethora of diverse rail industry nor are the railroad schemes easily attainable for purchase
> 
> Another caveat is that I truly love the state of Vermont - I think it's a gorgeous state terrain-wise, and I love how it still offers a lot of small-scale "local business" type industries. And as I model this layout of mine, I often find myself thinking of it as a Vermont scene rather than something indicative of Connecticut.
> 
> Quite the dilemma, huh???
> 
> My latest thought is that maybe I should re-theme this layout to a "New England" railroad instead, which would help spread out the themed area which would justify covering a few various industries, a lot of mountainous terrain, and also a pretty diverse track offering. I'm thinking these tunnels could also be the imaginary "boundaries" between states over a long distance as well. So for example, perhaps the upper level quarry and forestry (logs) supply industries in the mountains could be northern New England industries, and then getting to the lower levels where the deliveries are (the Sawmill, gravel dump, and lumber delivery) could all be lower states in New England.


I can certainly relate. I live in Southern Nevada, we are not a "mainline" area, side branch lines at best. No regular schedules, no passenger service, no where (easy) to get to see or photograph them, no rail yards......just not a train friendly area, even though, Vegas was built by the railroad, not the mafia as some believe. But, at any rate, I wanted my layout to be Nevada, but I want a mountain type town, with trees, dirt, mud, not tumble weeds and sand. So, along came Betzville NV. A clearly Midwestern mountainish town, but in Southern Nevada.


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## wvgca

that's really nicely detailed scenery work with the foam ...
you definitely have better eyesight than I do ..


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## Overkast

CTValleyRR said:


> Well, there you go. I stand corrected! That said, I originally thought Wikipedia was wrong, in that the DOT was the source of my information on the West Rock Tunnel. However, rereading that blurb just now with my new found knowledge, it is obvious that DOT is referring to PASSENGER transport, not ANY transport. So I have learned something today! That makes it a good day!
> 
> I don't know HOW prototypical you want to get. Certainly Willimantic had a ton of textile mills that received raw cotton and shipped all kinds of stuff out.
> 
> I know how you feel, though. I myself am using "could have been" settings, not authentic ones, for my mid-1950's CT Valley line. The first stretch I had to make was the Valley Line itself. It was never much more than a busy branch line, with mostly passenger traffic. I hypothesize that the hurricane of 1955 caused a lot of damage to the Shore Line, and the NH found it expeditious to route freight up the Valley Line to Middletown, thence back to Cedar Hill north of New Haven. For authentic industries, I am modeling the steamship dock in Old Saybrook and passenger stops at Goodspeed Landing and Middletown, even though none of these were in use by the mid 1950's. I model the coal fired power plant at Laurel (just south of Middletown), which receives hoppers from off-layout via Cedar Hill (staging). This is the only authentic industry & train route on the map.
> 
> For the fudges, I have moved the piano factory in Ivoryton 3 miles west and made it rail served (it never was), but this lets me model a stereotypical New England brick mill. I moved the brownstone quarry across the river from Portland to Middletown and made it rail served, and have a winery, dairy farm, lumber yard, and small lumber mill, all good Connecticut industries, but none of them, historically, on the Valley Line.
> 
> Sounds like you should go generic New England and model what floats your boat.


CTValleyRR, I like your hurricane hypothesis to justify putting more diverse rail traffic on the Valley Line... creative thinking! And you raise a good question about "how prototypical" I want to get, because I really don't know to be honest. As much as I would love to be prototypical, the simple facts are that I think both the small layout size and the hardships of attaining local schemes + relevant industry structures is just too difficult a task to aim for. I think you're right that I should probably look to model more of a "New England" area theme which would open up more possibilities and a bit more realism factor.

I love hearing about your layout plans... I live close to the Middletown area so all of these things are practically in my back yard. The Goodspeed landing, the massive Coal Plant in Laurel on the river, and the Portland quarry - all extremely distinct landmarks of the valley. Are you planning on modeling any of the iconic river bridges like the Goodspeed, Arrigoni, or even the Providence and Worcester swing bridge in Middletown? I love that swing bridge by the way... it's the best rail bridge in the state IMO.


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## Overkast

And thanks for the compliment wvgca. Yes I am taking advantage of my middle age "youth" now while I still can and taking on the N Scale challenge. I imagine eventually I'll have to start modeling in HO scale once my vision starts deteriorating over the years 

And Vegas, it's interesting to hear the challenges you equally face in such a much larger state than Connecticut and with a completely different climate and topography. But your layout works well and we'll always be our own worst critics when it comes to scrutinizing our layouts right? Others who see our works probably won't even comprehend or care about such details we think that are relevant or important.


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## Overkast

Did more mountain foam work this weekend... Mostly cutting more layers but gluing them is a slower process with the drying times, so I cut 5 layers but only have 2 glued right now. 

Here's a few pics going around the mountain in a counter-clockwise walkaround starting here:

















Back side is open for total in-mountain access to trains:


























Cool shot from inside the mountain looking out the tunnel portal and down the truss bridge:









I also used a spare piece of cut plexiglass to make a clear observation wall that also protects the train cars from falling off the table in case of derailment:









The foam is notched at the far end to hold it in, and at this end a wood dowel was cut to be used as an object for the plexiglass to "hook" onto:


















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## Gramps

It looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you but I'm sure it will turn out great.


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## Overkast

Gramps said:


> It looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you but I'm sure it will turn out great.


Thanks Gramps... and yes I sure do have a lot of work ahead of me. I plan on expediting the smooth-shaping of the mountains by using an electric sander. It's going to make a dang mess but if I cut / sand all these layers by hand it will take forever and a day and also kill my wrists!

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## VegasN

Looking very good. I am enjoying seeing this take shape!


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> And thanks for the compliment wvgca. Yes I am taking advantage of my middle age "youth" now while I still can and taking on the N Scale challenge. I imagine eventually I'll have to start modeling in HO scale once my vision starts deteriorating over the years
> 
> And Vegas, it's interesting to hear the challenges you equally face in such a much larger state than Connecticut and with a completely different climate and topography. But your layout works well and we'll always be our own worst critics when it comes to scrutinizing our layouts right? Others who see our works probably won't even comprehend or care about such details we think that are relevant or important.


Truer words have barely been spoken. It seems to build a completely "prototypical" area, most, if not all the scenery will have to kit bashed or scratch built. Although, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at doing the U.P. station that was here in Vegas in the 50's, and to add the old silver AeroTrain too......man......


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## Lemonhawk

Your encouraging me to attempt a tunnel and mountain on my test layout! I really enjoy your progress.


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## The New Guy

That open backside of the mountain - do you plan to make that a separate scene, or is it strictly for convenience?

That space would make a really nice rugged terrain bridges and whatnot scene. 

Nice work BTW.


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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> CTValleyRR, I like your hurricane hypothesis to justify putting more diverse rail traffic on the Valley Line... creative thinking! And you raise a good question about "how prototypical" I want to get, because I really don't know to be honest. As much as I would love to be prototypical, the simple facts are that I think both the small layout size and the hardships of attaining local schemes + relevant industry structures is just too difficult a task to aim for. I think you're right that I should probably look to model more of a "New England" area theme which would open up more possibilities and a bit more realism factor.
> 
> I love hearing about your layout plans... I live close to the Middletown area so all of these things are practically in my back yard. The Goodspeed landing, the massive Coal Plant in Laurel on the river, and the Portland quarry - all extremely distinct landmarks of the valley. Are you planning on modeling any of the iconic river bridges like the Goodspeed, Arrigoni, or even the Providence and Worcester swing bridge in Middletown? I love that swing bridge by the way... it's the best rail bridge in the state IMO.


The way things are falling out at the moment, the Arrigoni bridge would lie just beyond the layout to the North. There is a dummy turnout in Middletown that would lead to the P&W bridge, which I am not modeling (although I agree with you -- it's an awesome bridge). Middletown, incidentally, is represented by a few buildings and a freight depot. Have you noticed, though, that Walthers' Merchant's Row kits are pretty good stand-ins for Main Street stores? For the time being, the East Haddam Swing Bridge will be represented by a Rix kit that will pass over the rails rather than an at-grade crossing; it looks a lot like the Charter Oak Bridge. I do plan to model the western end of the Swing Bridge eventually, although I really am not a detail oriented person, and while I can easily make a structure RESEMBLING an existing structure, actually duplicating it in miniature is difficult for me.

The rail bridge over Rt 66 / Washington Street (pre-refurbishment) is the only Middletown area bridge that will be modeled on my layout. I have a Central Valley kit that is a dead ringer for it (although it will unprototypically cross a rail line rather than Washington Street... a concession to space constraints).


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## time warp

Overkast, excellent progress! Construction of such a layout is beyond anything that I would be able do in my remaining lifetime, but I'll certainly cheer you on!
As I read through the chronology of what you have done my only comment, however unnecessary, is that I agree with your assessment early on that the yard should be eliminated. My experience over the years has been that a large," working" yard takes quite a commitment, and all too often they can become the equivalent of an equipment storage bin.
I personally favor smaller, 3 or 4 track double ended branch line yards. They allow a lot of "busy" work if your in the mood and can work as staging tracks at other times.
Bravo to you, and keep up the good work!


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## Homeless by Choice

_Overkast said:"Did more mountain foam work this weekend... Mostly cutting more layers but gluing them is a slower process with the drying times, so I cut 5 layers but only have 2 glued right now."_


How did you glue the foam together? What glue did you use? What happens at the glue joint interface when you shape that area? Are there certain glues that should not be used near the areas that will be later shaped?

Thanks,
LeRoy


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## Overkast

*Lemonhawk:* You should definitely try a tunnel on your test layout! There's something mysterious and exciting about seeing a train emerge out of a tunnel, you know?

*New Guy:* Thanks for the compliment. You know, I hadn't considered the inside of the tunnel as being a "scene" but it's a hell of an interesting idea! I really designed the openness of the mountain strictly for ease of access in case something goes awry inside the tunnels. I also have a turnout inside the mountain so I really needed to be sure I can get my hands in there and address any problems if they arise (like they often do with turnouts). I am really going to consider the possibility of making a scene inside the mountain now! But if I ever do it, it would probably be one of the last scenery projects I ever do on this layout, once all the other "outside" scenes are finished.

*CTValleyRR: *I've never seen the Walther's Merchant Row kits until now but you are so right, they are perfect for modeling Main Street Middletown for sure. Make sure you make one of the store fonts Eli Cannon's!  I also do like that Rt. 66 Washington St. truss bridge as well. The abutments for that bridge are really nicely designed! I also like how that whole strip of track is on a strip of earth that was built up so high from road level below.

*time warp: *Thanks for the compliments as well, and I'm intrigued by your warning of a rail yard possibly becoming a "equipment storage bin." Coincidentally, if you look back on page 2 of this thread, you'll see I posted my track layout plans as they went through several milestones of changes over the months. In v11 you'll see at the bottom of the layout I did consider a double-ended yard, but I felt it required too much encroachment of the space that I really needed for a significant mountain. I have been thoroughly planning faux "freight runs" in my mind on these layout plans as I design them though, and I think I should be able to leverage the rail yard pretty frequently to change up various rolling stocks to keep a diverse array of freight types running on the layout. Having a double-track mainline is also a key factor here as well, as much of the upper-level supply industries have their lower-level deliveries on the outer mainline (mainline 2). That means I can run rail traffic fairly continuously on the inner mainline (mainline 1) with little interruption if I want, and still do a bunch of switching work between the entire upper level, mainline 2, the rail yard, and the North siding 

*Homeless (LeRoy):* I use Liquid Nails Projects adhesive for the foam sheets in a caulk gun. I just generously caulk one of the pieces and then press / move the piece firmly down until I feel it start to really "grip" with resistance. Then I put cardboard on top and paint cans on the cardboard (so the paint cans don't make dented rings in the foam). When I shape the area, the dried glue will just chip away with the pieces I'm carving off without issue. I use a Flex n' Fill compound (seen on page 3) to fill small gaps in the foam where I don't want gaps. I would not use glues like super glue on foam (it will melt the foam and damage it) and I would not use regular Elmer's glue either, because I think it's a bit too weak for foam stability. I've found that Liquid Nails adhesive is the best for foam work (personally).


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> It seems to build a completely "prototypical" area, most, if not all the scenery will have to kit bashed or scratch built.


100% agree Vegas. And though I'm up for some scratch-building challenges, I also don't want to have to spend a fortune on kits only to destroy them for parts.


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> 100% agree Vegas. And though I'm up for some scratch-building challenges, I also don't want to have to spend a fortune on kits only to destroy them for parts.


True. That's why the only kit bashing thing I did so far was all pieces of buildings bought from private people, unassembled, maybe scrap pieces of theirs....I couldn't bring myself to destroy a good kit.


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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> 100% agree Vegas. And though I'm up for some scratch-building challenges, I also don't want to have to spend a fortune on kits only to destroy them for parts.


But you could by assortments of modular building pieces to give you additional walls, arches, windows, doors, etc., and an assortment of other parts to use. For the cost of about one fairly complex structure, you could get a lot of extra parts.

Also, save all the leftovers every time you complete a kit. Most come with some alternate pieces, and these are a great source of raw material.

You can also buy patterned styrene sheets and use them for scratchbuilding the new parts.


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## VegasN

oh the possibilities. Limited only by your imagination......and disposable time.........and disposable income..........and understanding spouses.........and patience.........


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## Overkast

Progress has been a bit slow with summer in full effect, but I do have a quick update... 

Mountain is getting taller still and I've finally capped the back opening with a ceiling. Building up the layers still but temporarily ran out of foam:

























Also decided to start building the concrete retaining wall next to the mainlines. There will be a passenger station platform and parking lot here so I wanted a retaining wall that looked like it was commercially zoned:

























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## VegasN

Man I need to get some of that material, I think its foam (?) that you are sculpting those walls out of......that is some great stuff.


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## bluenavigator

VegasN said:


> Man I need to get some of that material, I think its foam (?) that you are sculpting those walls out of......that is some great stuff.


Yes, they are called foamboards, commonly used for the insulation on the walls. More northern the location is, the more thicker foamboards are available. 

In central Texas, thickest one is only 3/4". In Kansas, they have 2 inches thick foamboards.


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## jlc41

Overkast, that is a very impressive layout. I like the way you are building it, very well thought out and executed, nice.


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## Overkast

bluenavigator said:


> Yes, they are called foamboards, commonly used for the insulation on the walls. More northern the location is, the more thicker foamboards are available.
> 
> In central Texas, thickest one is only 3/4". In Kansas, they have 2 inches thick foamboards.


bluenavigator, actually the foam I use for the retaining walls is not the pink insulation foam, it's a modeling foam from woodland scenics. It's a bit softer so you can score it (or dent it if you're not careful) to make patterns and texture lines in it... that's how I made the 2 horizontal lines across it to represent concrete slabs.

Vegas, here's a link to the stuff I used (it's an assortment pack and I used the 1/4" thick foam for this retaining wall project): http://www.hobbylinc.com/woodland-assorted-modeling-sheets-4-model-railroad-scratch-supply-c1177?source=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQjwlNy8BRC676-W0JezxbwBEiQA4Ydg0USS6WzJsARzZg_fRyEK7QxB3Mn2SznP6theNQEFvQsaAtcO8P8HAQ

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## Overkast

jlc41 said:


> Overkast, that is a very impressive layout. I like the way you are building it, very well thought out and executed, nice.


Thanks so much jlc, I appreciate it!


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## bluenavigator

Overkast said:


> bluenavigator, actually the foam I use for the retaining walls is not the pink insulation foam, it's a modeling foam from woodland scenics. It's a bit softer so you can score it (or dent it if you're not careful) to make patterns and texture lines in it... that's how I made the 2 horizontal lines across it to represent concrete slabs.


Oh, I misread the note. I didn't pay attention for the materials used for building the retaining wall. My bad!


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## The New Guy

Overkast said:


> Mountain is getting taller still...Building up the layers still but temporarily ran out of foam:


Not sure of your intended finished height, but a thought:

Hollow the full ceiling pieces and use them to cap the mountain. Each course is what, 20' in N? I forget if you have 1½ or 2" there...

60 more feet anyway.

HTH


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> bluenavigator, actually the foam I use for the retaining walls is not the pink insulation foam, it's a modeling foam from woodland scenics. It's a bit softer so you can score it (or dent it if you're not careful) to make patterns and texture lines in it... that's how I made the 2 horizontal lines across it to represent concrete slabs.
> 
> Vegas, here's a link to the stuff I used (it's an assortment pack and I used the 1/4" thick foam for this retaining wall project): http://www.hobbylinc.com/woodland-assorted-modeling-sheets-4-model-railroad-scratch-supply-c1177?source=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQjwlNy8BRC676-W0JezxbwBEiQA4Ydg0USS6WzJsARzZg_fRyEK7QxB3Mn2SznP6theNQEFvQsaAtcO8P8HAQ
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Thank you much for the link. I am very familiar with hobbylinc. I have ordered from them a few times now.


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## Overkast

The New Guy said:


> Not sure of your intended finished height, but a thought:
> 
> Hollow the full ceiling pieces and use them to cap the mountain. Each course is what, 20' in N? I forget if you have 1½ or 2" there...
> 
> 60 more feet anyway.
> 
> HTH


Hey New Guy. I'm not sure how hollowing the pieces would work, because as I stack them I need as much overlap on the outer edges (for adhesive durability) as I can get. I think hollowing them would take away too much of the critical overlap area and be a nightmare to try and pull off. I'm also intentionally making them full slabs now because as I sand the foam to shape the mountain, as I get closer to the top I am going to need to "eat" into the foam much more to make the curves and slopes I want, so I can't risk sanding into a hollow point of the foam as I dig into it with the sander.

I am using 1" foam boards, but they actually measure slightly under 1". So at a 1:160 scale they equate to roughly 12' per layer. I don't really have a target height, I just plan to keep going until I get to a small top layer to finish. I estimate probably 6-8 more layers to go until I'm done with the height, which would put the mountain at 240' - 264' tall in prototype scale.


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## Gramps

I'm still amazed by the amount of work you will have to do on your layout. The finished product, if there is such a thing in model railroading, will be worth it.


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## Overkast

Gramps said:


> I'm still amazed by the amount of work you will have to do on your layout. The finished product, if there is such a thing in model railroading, will be worth it.


I know... Lately I've been feeling a bit impatient again but I just have to keep fighting the good fight!!!


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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> I know... Lately I've been feeling a bit impatient again but I just have to keep fighting the good fight!!!


That's why you need to take a break and just run trains sometimes!!


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## bluenavigator

CTValleyRR said:


> That's why you need to take a break and just run trains sometimes!!


Couldn't agree more! I do that once a while when I need a break from drafting layouts. 

It is nice to watch the trains going around and around as I image what I want to see the layout look like. Nice to be inspired by the imagination.


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## Gramps

CTValleyRR said:


> That's why you need to take a break and just run trains sometimes!!


What, you mean we're supposed to actually run these trains?


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## Overkast

Well, I didn't run trains tonight but instead took out my frustration on my deck plate girder bridge... and so I finally finished weathering the rust on it 


































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## bluenavigator

That is a nice girder bridge! Great job on weathering.

Only that it is quite long. Will there be some supporting piers? Oh, I can see them. You dotted squares with sort of half loops in the middle, into the foam. Can't wait to see these weathered piers!


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## Overkast

Thanks bluenavigator! Yeah I plan on making 2 piers for this bridge and that dotted block is where 1 of them will go. It might be a while before I get to them.

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## VegasN

looking really good.


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## time warp

Looks good, I thought it looked too long for a single span. It'll be nice when you're done.


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## Overkast

Thanks guys. You think this bridge looks long, wait until I work on the massive curved one!!! :-/

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## VegasN

Ooooo.......now you got me on the edge of my seat. Can't wait to see that. I love watching trains go over bridges.....


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## Lemonhawk

After seeing you make concrete piers, together with the weathered plate girder, that bridge will be an eye catcher!


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## Overkast

Starting to newspaper-plan the first foam layer shape of West Mountain... getting excited to start focusing on a new area of my layout!









Perspective of the quarry cut for gravel industry:









Perspective of the forestry cut for logs industry:









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## time warp

It's coming along nicely!


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## VegasN

I am really enjoying watching this grow.


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## Rusty

Good work, it looks good and thanks for sharing.


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## Overkast

Thanks Rusty.

New update to share: I finally painted, weathered, and glued that concrete retaining wall I made:

































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## Mark VerMurlen

Nice job on the wall weathering!

Mark


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## VegasN

Looks wonderful! I cant wait to see it filling in more. Great work, just amazing attention to detail. Super impressed.


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## Overkast

Thanks guys! I am having a lot of fun with my progress this year - glad I was able to keep up some momentum through the Spring / Summer unlike last year. What I've achieved in year 2 is leaps and bounds from year 1.

My current projects are:

Finish the final foam layers on East Mountain
Continue to build up West Mountain (where the quarry is)
Just finished spackling and sanding down smooth ramps that lead up to the RR crossings
Constructing the long curved deck plate girder bridge

Next in the queue:

Building a sawmill from scratch (waiting on the V Groove styrene I ordered to arrive, but otherwise have all the doors and windows parts all ready to go)
Start shaping / sanding East Mountain after I finish the final foam layers
Start painting some of the land brown dirt color
Paint more rails


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## Overkast

Starting to work on my sawmill scratch build! It's a "compact" sawmill design (only a 3.5" x 6" structure in N Scale, so 46' x 80' prototype) as the real estate I have for it is a relatively small nook along the riverside, and I'll need a place for a parking lot and log dump on both sides of it (plus conveyor leading up to it). So basically I imagine this as a small, local sawmill... not a huge / large-output industrial sawmill.

Designed the structure on the computer and using printouts as a template w/ black squares as the window / door cutouts:









Ordered the windows and door parts online. Will need to paint them still before gluing:









One side propped up on the base (but not glued yet):


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## Overkast

Making more progress on the scratch-build sawmill. Cutting small door and window cutouts in the v-groove styrene was really difficult even with the exacto knife. I often had to apply a lot of pressure to the knife to get the small cuts and it was killing my fingers. So I came up with an idea to help speed things along... I took a paper clip and rigged my exacto blade to my soldering iron so I could cut through the styrene like butter!










It worked like a charm. The heat did leave melted styrene edges along the cuts but they were easily removed and the edges cleaned up with careful cuts with a regular exacto afterwards.


















Painted:









Assembled with windows:









With roof placed on top (not glued yet though):









Positioned on layout:









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## time warp

Good thinking on the cutting tool, I wouldn't have thought of that. I have drilled openings before and then trimmed to size too.
Building looks nice and based on your photos I can get an appreciation for how it's fitting in with your landscape design. Nice.


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## Overkast

Thanks time warp. Yeah you can see how narrow the space is now that I have the building in the scene. The right side of the sawmill (where the track is curving leading up to it) will be the log dump area w/ conveyor, and the left side will be the parking lot coming off the road between the the RR crossing and the river road bridge.


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## VegasN

That is just simply amazing. Dude....I am seriously running out of good things to say about your ideas and your work. I am going to start sounding like a broken record.....


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> That is just simply amazing. Dude....I am seriously running out of good things to say about your ideas and your work. I am going to start sounding like a broken record.....


Thank you Vegas  I really appreciate, and am honored to receive such high compliments from talented modelers such as you and others on this forum.

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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> Making more progress on the scratch-build sawmill. Cutting small door and window cutouts in the v-groove styrene was really difficult even with the exacto knife. I often had to apply a lot of pressure to the knife to get the small cuts and it was killing my fingers. So I came up with an idea to help speed things along... I took a paper clip and rigged my exacto blade to my soldering iron so I could cut through the styrene like butter!
> 
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> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Tried that heat trick once, and the styrene warped. I'll stick with my nibbler.

Nice work, though!


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## bluenavigator

CTValleyRR said:


> Tried that heat trick once, and the styrene warped. I'll stick with my nibbler.
> 
> Nice work, though!


Not just single method would work for everyone. 

Just find the best method that will work is the individual's best method. :appl:

Can't wait to do mine!


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## Overkast

CTValleyRR said:


> Tried that heat trick once, and the styrene warped. I'll stick with my nibbler.
> 
> Nice work, though!


Thanks CTValleyRR.

Yeah, the styrene definitely melts where the blade touches, but luckily being a thin blade it's a nominal amount. I also found the key to precision cuts is a combo of the heated exacto and a regular exacto... where I use the heated blade to make a cut that's a bit smaller than the actual size I need - that way the melting doesn't affect the true cut line. Then with the chunk of styrene taken out of the middle, it is *MUCH EASIER* to follow up with a plain exacto and cut the melt off and get the fine cut on the cut line (because there's no resistance in the middle with the "chunk" gone now).


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## Overkast

Well it's about time for another update. Been doing more work on the layout in the last month - I'm starting to get into terrain-scaping now. Using more sculptamold to slope off some hill edges and even doing little subtleties like filling in slopes along the roadsides. Since the sculptamold dries with a lot of rough bumps, I'm also going back over the top of the slopes with a coat of spackle to smooth things out a bit:


































River valley starting to come along nicely:









Starting to plan for the North Station platform. Built the parking lot and need to make a RR crossing where the cars would theoretically cross the track behind it to get to this lot. This station will have more of an urban theme, so I also plan to build a pedestrian platform crossover bridge that spans the 3 tracks (as if there was another access point to the station somewhere off the layout):









And a more zoomed-out view to show the development of West Mountain in the background:









And here I'm starting to lay the groundwork for the South Station platform. This station will be more rural themed:









Showing the quarry side of West Mountain:









Building the parking lot for the Furniture Factory:









You can see in that above pic that there's a RR crossing next to the retaining wall. That is going to be a dirt road access to the Rail Yard. This is the access point all the Rail Yard workers would use to get to work. Here's a close-up:









A perspective shot down the Rail Yard:









I built a new bridge pier that uses 2 wooden dowels and some styrene shaped with a arch. This spans the track below:

















And finally, I'm starting to plan out the mini log pond for the sawmill:









There will eventually be a stationary crane (where this bent brass wire is) to unload logs off the log cars and dump them into the log pond:


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## time warp

Looking good! Are your log cars handled on a branch, like a logging line? Or are they brought in as freight cars?


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## CTValleyRR

Very nice!

One note on your Sculptamold issue -- I find that using warm water -- a little more than you think you need -- and actually chopping at it with a pallet knife smooths the mixture out considerably. When its firm, but not dry, a swipe with a wet sponge can also smooth things down a lot. And finally, it can be sanded when it's cured.


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## Overkast

time warp said:


> Looking good! Are your log cars handled on a branch, like a logging line? Or are they brought in as freight cars?


Thanks time warp! My log cars will come from a logging area on the North side of West Mountain. It's a tiny siding off the upper level mainline - has enough room for three 65' log cars + 1 loco. Here's a pic that shows the vision:


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## Overkast

CTValleyRR said:


> Very nice!
> 
> One note on your Sculptamold issue -- I find that using warm water -- a little more than you think you need -- and actually chopping at it with a pallet knife smooths the mixture out considerably. When its firm, but not dry, a swipe with a wet sponge can also smooth things down a lot. And finally, it can be sanded when it's cured.


Thanks CTValleyRR! And thanks for great tip on the sculptamold as well... I'm going to try these techniques on my next molding!


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## time warp

The reason I asked about the log cars is because back in the old days they used to unload the logs with a jill poke or something similar. I don't know how they do it now but I would assume that use some kind of a kicker or something to speed up the process.


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## Overkast

Yeah, I really wanted a more modern log car like the Micro Trains 65':







But these cars have side guards, so jill pokes aren't used on these types of cars. These days they use log loaders like this:





So I bought myself the GHQ Komatsu Log Loader w/ Heel Boom for the logging area (to load logs onto the cars) and my plan is to construct that crane at the sawmill which could lift the logs out of the cars over those side guards.


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## time warp

OK, What got me wondering was the crane mock-up in your post. That answers several questions I had.


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## VegasN

Dude......you are making me consider scrapping my layout and starting over......


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Dude......you are making me consider scrapping my layout and starting over......


Haha, you made me laugh just now Vegas. But that's nonsense man, I love your layout and think you're doing awesome with it!!

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## VegasN

Thank you. Quite a compliment from someone of your skill level.


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## Overkast

Started construction on the urban station platform:









And finished creating all of my river culverts tonight:

























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## VegasN

Starting to fill in.....looks awesome!


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## Magic

THAT is going to be one interesting layout.
Great workmanship. 

Magic


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## Overkast

Thanks guys! Yeah it feels good to be doing the terrain-scaping now. Soon I should be able to start painting some of the land in key spots. Once I finish building west mountain I'll also be able to shape both mountains with the hot foam knife / rasp / sander. That work should be coming up within the next month or so.

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## Mark VerMurlen

Looking good, Overkast. Can you say more about how you are creating your road and track crossings? Are you using some commercial product for the crossings or are you making them from drywall mud or plaster? Are you cutting the grooves for the wheels after the material has set up or are you using some kind of spacer that you remove later?

Mark


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## VegasN

Great questions......please, do tell.


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## Overkast

Mark VerMurlen said:


> Looking good, Overkast. Can you say more about how you are creating your road and track crossings? Are you using some commercial product for the crossings or are you making them from drywall mud or plaster? Are you cutting the grooves for the wheels after the material has set up or are you using some kind of spacer that you remove later?
> 
> Mark


Thank you Mark. Sure I'd be happy to discuss...

The roads / crossings have been challenging as I started them one way and now am trying to approach them with a different technique from lessons learned.

First off, I am using Creatology Foam Sheets from Michael's craft store for the roads. It is a nice rubbery foam material that is very resilient to sanding (which is nice because it doesn't get damaged easily). Turns out the thickness of this foam material is nearly the perfect flush height of the track sleepers + rail in N Scale as well, the only problem is I can't get the road to touch the rail, because it would have to sit on top of the sleepers (thus raising it's height too high above the rail).

So, I can get the foam very close to the rails, but really I have to stop it at the edge of the track sleepers, thus leaving a small gap between the edge of the road and the rail which then needs to be filled or bridged somehow. You can slightly see that gap at the top of this picture where the road ends on the cork and the sleepers are exposed in front of it:









So, my solution to bridge this gap was to take some very thin .015 styrene and cut strips that can touch the rail edge, cross that gap, and overlap the road so I can glue the styrene to the road. This worked fine, the only issue is that styrene strip now had a slightly raised bump height of its own on the road, so spakling / sanding was needed to create a smooth transition from the styrene strip to the road.  I did the best I could, but it's not perfect and I'm afraid once I paint it, it will still be obvious. You can clearly tell where that strip is in this picture for example:









Also, to get the roads up to the track sleeper height to begin with, I needed to build ramps that met the height of the cork roadbed for the road to climb. So I made those ramps out of some Woodland Scenics modeling foam, glued them down, and gently sanded them down to create the ramp slope:

















Doing the middle of the track was easier since I didn't have to worry about ramps, slopes, and gaps... so I just measured and cut some styrene pieces to place in the middle of the track. I used a train car to keep testing the gap clearance for the wheels, and if the gap wasn't wide enough then I sanded down the styrene strips until the wheels rolled through without issues. Then I glued those strips to the track sleepers.

This all worked for straight track crossings, but then I had to do a curved track crossing later, and I didn't want to repeat all the same headaches. I also knew working with styrene wouldn't be ideal for the strip in the center of the track since I would have to maintain a wheel clearance around the curve and it would be a sanding nightmare with a hard product like styrene to achieve that. I needed a flexible material I could work with for this crossing... and so I decided to try some cork roadbed as the center strip this time:









The cork strip in the middle was about twice as tall as the rails' height, so after I glued it to the track and let the glue harden it in place, I took my blade-extending razor knife and extended the blade as far as it would go. Then I laid the blade flat across both rails and gently cut through the cork so my cut was the same height as the rails.

This crossing is for a dirt road, so I didnt need to use the Creatology Foam for the road either... instead I used this product called Flex n' Fill which goes on like a spakle, but it dries much harder and does not crack:









I used this to lay the road base, and then after it dried I sanded down some of the rougness (it dries so hard it takes some work to sand it) and went back over the top of it with a regular spakle. I spakled right up to the edge of the rails this time, rather than worrying about styrene strips to bridge that gap of track sleepers, etc. The result is a much more fluid road approach to the crossing, because the ramp slope can just be created by spakle and sanding.

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## Overkast

Mark, I drew up some diagrams which hopefully make more clear the build process of these crossings I described above:


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## bluenavigator

Thank you for the diagram and explanation based on "how-to" for laying the roads. Great job!


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## Overkast

You're welcome bluenavigator. And thank you as well.

One other thing I'd like to mention - if anyone is considering doing the GLEAM process to their rails (I am), I would highly recommend GLEAMing the rails at these crossings *before *you actually build the crossing. Trying to GLEAM the rails after the crossings are built is a pain b/c you're trying to both sand and burnish properly and the styrene kind of gets in the way (since it is flush height w/ the rails, and so it is hard to work around).


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## VegasN

Awesome info. Thank you sir.


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## Chip

Amazing work, looks like it "growed there"! Well Done!


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## Overkast

Thanks Chip!


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## Lemonhawk

Beautiful diagram of your grade crossing method! I just hope I don't loose this link when i need to make a grade crossing!


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## Overkast

More quick updates. Starting to get close to completing West Mountain - I measured out and made all the remaining foam cuts I'll need to complete the mountain top, now it's just a matter of getting each layer glued day by day. Once all the layers are glued I can dedicate some time to carving the mountains with my hot foam knife to shape them and sand them down. Knowing the mess that is going to create is holding me up on running trains on this layout!!! 

Otherwise, some cool progress is that I made 2 more bridge piers - this time out of foam so I could carve brick texture into them:

















And I FINALLY got the guard rails completed on my deck plate girder bridge as well!:


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## Mark VerMurlen

The bridge track and guard rails look great, Overkast!

Mark


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## Overkast

Thank you Mark.

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## VegasN

Just simply (series of stars) amazing!!


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## Overkast

My company just hosted a big event overseas and I had to travel / attend it, so I've been out of pocket for a while. Just got back on Friday and then my wife took the kids to NYC for an overnight on Saturday, so I used the alone time to catch up on some much needed train layout time and I made a TON of progress! It was quite the marathon on Saturday... going for 12 hours straight and only taking a break for dinner  I loved every minute of it.

Basically I spent the entire day working on East Mountain. I started and finished shaping the entire mountain in a day... starting with a hot foam knife, then following up with a rasp, sanding smooth spots, carving cliffs with the razor knife, and adding Sculptamold to cover up gaps and seams where the foam layers meet.

Hot foam knife (didn't like it, don't think I'll use it again):









Rasping down all the hot foam meltings + getting hard to reach areas:









Starting to take shape:

































And finally adding the Sculptamold:

















Another cool quick little project I just did was also scratch-build a tunnel portal entrance. The double-track portals I bought are just a tad too small on the openings for my liking. Since the tracks enter the tunnels on a curve, the long freight cars (like an auto rack) come seriously close to touching the edges of the portal. But I do like the modern concrete design of these portals for my mainlines, so I decided to replicate the style. I built a wider version of it using the Woodland Scenics modeling foam as a base and I cut the raised portion shape out of that Creatology Foam sheet from Michael's (that I used for the road).










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## Mark VerMurlen

Nice work! Messy stuff to work with, isn't it.

Mark


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## Overkast

Thanks Mark. Yes, it sure is messy! I had to stop frequently just to shop-vac the mess so I could see / continue my progress. Good thing I only have 2 mountains to do!  lol


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## Lemonhawk

this just keeps looking better and better. Really like the new piers and the work done adding the guard rail.


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## Overkast

Thanks Lemonhawk! I'm having a lot of fun now that I'm getting to make more and more structures and scenes. I think it's going to be a productive winter for me! Heck who knows, I may even get to run some trains before the Spring  :laugh:


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## Lemonhawk

The first time that $500 engine crosses that narrow bridge I know you'll be holding your breath, but we want pictures


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## VegasN

Oh, defiantly want to see that.


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## Rusty

Your mountain looks good and nice work.


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## Overkast

Well, I recently discovered a major operations issue on my layout and I'm really disappointed I didn't catch it earlier in the planning / design stage. If I don't fix it I think it's going to bother me and bite me in the future, but fixing it also means a major headache and probably about $150 worth of parts.

The problem area is on the south side of my layout:









The issue is that I only designed this part of the mainline to have a single crossover using right turnouts. In the design phase I don't think I did a good enough job of thinking about all the operations routes my trains would possibly take, and now that I'm working on the passenger station in this area I have been able to give it more thought to come to this revelation. I can now see the potential shortcomings... 

*The issue: *Let's say a train on the inner mainline (say train #1) needs to stop so a train on the outer mainline (say train #2) can crossover onto the inner mainline. Train #1 would need train #2 to clear the crossover before it could resume. Currently the only place for train #2 to crossover in the counter-clockwise direction is on the north side of the layout. That means if train #1 is stopped on the south side of the layout, and a long freight train has to crossover on the north side, then by the time it clears the crossover it will be right on the heels of train #1 Ideally, I would want trains stopped right at the crossover junction where other trains need to cross in front of them to get onto the same rail line (so that the other train can then execute a crossover to get out of the way). So with the current design all counter-clockwise crossovers are restricted to the north side, and I have no flexibility to do them on the south side.

So to rectify this issue, I will need to modify the south side of the mainline to creat a double crossover situation:









Here is an animation of the proposed solution:









The implications here are:

My feeder wires and solder points will all need to be re-done
My DIY style of turnout switches using DPDT slide switches to manually throw the rails now creates a 2-fold problem in that 2 of my existing switches' positions are rendered useless (leaving holes in the board where they currently exist) and I would now need to create 4 new switch positions and construct the brass tubing and piano wire arms under already built up track / roadbed / foam materials 

This is all leading me to now consider mounting servos under the table to control the throw of these 4 turnouts (which means I can use panel switches wherever and not have gaping holes in the boards where those DPDT slide switches currently are), and I wouldn't have to try and snake 4 new brass tubings through the foam under all those existing obstacles. I've priced out everything I would need from Tam Valley and it looks like I'm at $150 to be able to get started


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## CTValleyRR

Well, I'm not rejoicing in yiur pain. I sympathize.

This is, however, not an unexpected development. I don't think you could look at a blog, or read an article about the development of anyone's model railroad, and you will find a story about how some part of the layout "just didn't work" and was replaced or improved.

For myself, when I returned to the hobby in 2001, I started building a 4x8 layout. Halfway jn, i realized there were some issues and redesigned several parts (I was working from a stock plan from MR). When that was almost done, I decided I wanted more variety, and expanded to a 4x10 with 2 small 1' 'bump outs' making the overall footprint roughly 5x10. This layout lasted almost 10 years, until I finally gave in to the nagging feeling that my layout still wasn't quite getting it done. The yard tracks were too short, and the trains were getting too long for the sidings, plus the 18" curves were cramping my style. So I designed a new one from the ground up.

Unfortunately for me, shortly after demolished layout #3 (not counting the two I had in my childhood), life threw me a series of financial curves, so I'm still slowly acquiring parts for #4 (and my "pending" purchases with TVD are about $650  ). BTW, if you have more than a couple of turnouts to control, it's cheaper to go with an OCTO III, servos, and fascia contollers than individual singlets from TVD. Use the quantity discounts!

Moral of the story: Don't look on this as a setback, and try not to let it tick you off! It's a learning, growing process. Embrace the change and run with it! You will be glad you did, eventually.


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## CTValleyRR

Oh, and BTW, i would move that blue crossover point about another 9" away ( to the right in your animation) which will let you handle longer trains in that passing section.

EDIT -- oops, never mind. Your're already planning to. Any farther right and you're into the curve.


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## Lemonhawk

It looks to me that you have to do the new implementation to the track, it just makes things work. I ran in to a similar problem on my 5x9 test layout (been testing now for 10 years!) in that I had to reverse the way I had intended to run engines to make the sidings work (I have no revers loops) and luckily it only took a few tweaks to get in all working. But back to your problem of how to control them. You could use 4 stall motors controlled by 2 DPDT switches (each switch would control 2 motors). 
Here's a link to switchmasters. 
http://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/sm-home.html
you would need 4 machines and 4 pr1's (Pr-1 are only necessary if power routing). Not sure this is any cheaper but these are easy to install even if the existing turnout is glued down (they mount under the table). There are also ways that you can make linkages that only use 1 machine to control 2 turnouts but that seems a little messy. Stall motors are easy to wire and you can put a 2 lead bi-color LED in series with the motor to indicate which way the turnout is pointing. If your using Peco switches you could consider using their switch machines that fasten to the bottom of the turnout.


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## Overkast

Thanks CTValley and Lemonhawk. Yes I am considering the Octo III from Tam Valley, since it runs up to 8 servos and I'm sure eventually I will be investing in more than the 4 right now. In fact, eventually I'll need a total of 3 Octo III boards to control all 24 of my turnouts! I'm also planning to control each crossover with a single switch (2 turnouts at the same time) which is a neat idea / feature. Luckily some of the other hardware from Tam that I'll need is initial setup cost and it won't be as expensive to add on as I go later. 

Lemonhawk, I read into those SwitchMasters and I think based on a per-unit cost it looks more expensive than the Tam system I'm pricing out. But I appreciate the reference regardless, as I didn't know they even existed!


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## VegasN

CTValleyRR said:


> Well, I'm not rejoicing in yiur pain. I sympathize.
> 
> This is, however, not an unexpected development. I don't think you could look at a blog, or read an article about the development of anyone's model railroad, and you will find a story about how some part of the layout "just didn't work" and was replaced or improved.
> 
> For myself, when I returned to the hobby in 2001, I started building a 4x8 layout. Halfway jn, i realized there were some issues and redesigned several parts (I was working from a stock plan from MR). When that was almost done, I decided I wanted more variety, and expanded to a 4x10 with 2 small 1' 'bump outs' making the overall footprint roughly 5x10. This layout lasted almost 10 years, until I finally gave in to the nagging feeling that my layout still wasn't quite getting it done. The yard tracks were too short, and the trains were getting too long for the sidings, plus the 18" curves were cramping my style. So I designed a new one from the ground up.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, shortly after demolished layout #3 (not counting the two I had in my childhood), life threw me a series of financial curves, so I'm still slowly acquiring parts for #4 (and my "pending" purchases with TVD are about $650  ). BTW, if you have more than a couple of turnouts to control, it's cheaper to go with an OCTO III, servos, and fascia contollers than individual singlets from TVD. Use the quantity discounts!
> 
> Moral of the story: Don't look on this as a setback, and try not to let it tick you off! It's a learning, growing process. Embrace the change and run with it! You will be glad you did, eventually.


Wise sage advice. I took some of it to heart myself. Well done.:appl:


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## Lemonhawk

You could move the green crossover into the curve with the straight part going to the other loop (the cross part) and the curved part continuing. This eliminates the "S" curve of the cross over. I've been thinking of driving the switch stand flag with a servo, just to give a positive indication at the switch as to which way its set. I guess you could even move the red one back to the curve also. Makes the cross transition a lot smoother.


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## Overkast

Lemonhawk said:


> You could move the green crossover into the curve with the straight part going to the other loop (the cross part) and the curved part continuing. This eliminates the "S" curve of the cross over. I've been thinking of driving the switch stand flag with a servo, just to give a positive indication at the switch as to which way its set. I guess you could even move the red one back to the curve also. Makes the cross transition a lot smoother.


I'm pretty restricted to what I can do without tearing up the entire South section of mainline. I'm currently using (2) #7 Right turnouts which are 6" length each (so 12" total), so adding the (2) #7 Left turnouts will double the real estate I need with a total of 24" of straightaway. I have JUST enough room in that section for 24" between the two curves, so I think I'm stuck with that for my plan.


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## jlc41

Overkast, I see your delima but am sure you will have a solution that makes sense. I will say that after seeing your issue I reviewed my track-age and realized I had two turnouts butting up with no leeway between. So I decided to add a 6 inch straight section to fix it, that's all the room I have due to my track layout. I was lucky I haven't glued my track down yet. I am still working out my reversing loops and isolation points, that DonR suggested.


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## time warp

The solution might not be in the trackwork, but in your traffic pattern. You might be able to rethink your operational plans and develop a workable solution with track work as is. 
The prototype has to deal with this kind of thing on a regular basis.


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## Overkast

jlc41 said:


> Overkast, I see your delima but am sure you will have a solution that makes sense. I will say that after seeing your issue I reviewed my track-age and realized I had two turnouts butting up with no leeway between. So I decided to add a 6 inch straight section to fix it, that's all the room I have due to my track layout. I was lucky I haven't glued my track down yet. I am still working out my reversing loops and isolation points, that DonR suggested.


jlc41, I was away 2 weeks ago so I didn't even see your track revisions. Love the progress and I think it's going to work great for you! Which of the turnouts in your track plan are you referring to which had issues?


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## Overkast

time warp said:


> The solution might not be in the trackwork, but in your traffic pattern. You might be able to rethink your operational plans and develop a workable solution with track work as is.
> The prototype has to deal with this kind of thing on a regular basis.


That's a good point time warp. I'm also going to contemplate this as a possibility - sure would save me a bunch of money too


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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> That's a good point time warp. I'm also going to contemplate this as a possibility - sure would save me a bunch of money too


But, to play a little devil's advocate, you don't want to end up with a layout that will have you saying "I wish I had done this". If managing the problem operationally creates an interesting and fun challenge, then definitely consider it. But if it's something that's going to stick in your craw for the rest of this layout's life, then best to fix it now.

And, while I know that we aren't all made of money, especially those on a fixed income (and remember that my dream layout is on hold for financial reasons), i would caution against making the decision based on cost. That is often penny wise, dollar foolish.


----------



## time warp

I guess I look at it a little differently, I've learned that life goes by too quickly. Build it and run it, enjoy it. Figure it out as you go but whatever you do, don't wait. There's no perfect layout and things can always be different, that will never change.


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## jlc41

Overkast, I had relocated turn out #2 to butt up to #3. After reading about your issue I rechecked that piece of track with one of my most sensitive rollers and didn't like what I saw. So I added that short section. Much better rolling through the turn outs know. Am in the process of gluing down the track when am done I'll post another photo.
TW, I agree 100% life's to short enjoy it while you can.


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## VegasN

time warp said:


> I guess I look at it a little differently, I've learned that life goes by too quickly. Build it and run it, enjoy it. Figure it out as you go but whatever you do, don't wait. There's no perfect layout and things can always be different, that will never change.



:smilie_daumenpos:


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## CTValleyRR

time warp said:


> I guess I look at it a little differently, I've learned that life goes by too quickly. Build it and run it, enjoy it. Figure it out as you go but whatever you do, don't wait. There's no perfect layout and things can always be different, that will never change.


I'm not advocating analyzing it to death before you build. Quite the contrary. Get it built! Don't let the possibility that something might need to change hold you back. But don't press ahead with a suboptimal plan if you realize something DOES need to change.

Definately, though, don't wait for the perfect plan before you build. I see too much of that on the forums already.


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## VegasN

CTValleyRR said:


> I'm not advocating analyzing it to death before you build. Quite the contrary. Get it built! Don't let the possibility that something might need to change hold you back. But don't press ahead with a suboptimal plan if you realize something DOES need to change.
> 
> Definately, though, don't wait for the perfect plan before you build. I see too much of that on the forums already.


I know what you mean. I read a story in a model train magazine online article about a guy that worked on his track plan for almost two years...........????


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## Lemonhawk

"Two years" - probably was an engineer, we have a tendency to always think there is a better way and sometime you just have to shoot the engineer and get on with it


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## CTValleyRR

Two years? Talk about paralysis by analysis....


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## VegasN

I know huh? I was thinking to myself, 'it will be 5 years before he even lays track'. Myself, I don't have the patience for that. Hell, I couldn't even finish the article.....it was too long.


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Hell, I couldn't even finish the article.....it was too long.


LOL... That made me laugh pretty good.

So I've been giving the track plan a lot of thought and really thinking about operations the last few days. It seems to me that the South side crossover might not have too much use significance because it doesn't lend itself to the direction of trains accessing the reverse track in the middle anyway. It seems to be more of an extra convenience, but hardly one that is a "must" to use in operations. I may be leaning towards leaving this section alone for now and dealing with it / working around it and seeing how it goes. 

In the meantime, I started taking on a new construction project making some fancy retaining walls (using Chooch Industries felxible wall + the Creatology Foam as a concrete cap/strip on the top.


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## VegasN

That flexible wall looks pretty good.


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> That flexible wall looks pretty good.


Thanks Vegas. I'm pretty happy with the product - the flexibility is nice to have and easy to cut. Also comes with a self-stick backing, which is good in that it's very sticky but also bad in that it's so sticky it sticks to the peel-off paper. So peeling the paper takes a bit of patience to ensure the sticky remains on the wall and not the paper.

I have some more chooch walls on order now to use as the inside walls of my tunnels, as well as a small retaining wall along the river side next to the sawmill.


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## VegasN

Who do you order from?


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## jlc41

Overkast, looks good. I may have to try it. I have a couple of spots that could use that type of detail.


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## Overkast

Vegas, I shop mostly and bought on eBay... the products are usually cheapest there and if you can find multiple products from the same seller you can usually combine them into a lower shipping rate.

jlc41, I recommend you try these! Definitely the easiest way to get nice wall detail, especially in hard-to-reach areas like tunnels. Just be careful when you buy - chooch makes both hard resin walls as well as flexible. I messed up and bought a hard resin by mistake because I didn't read carefully enough.

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## jlc41

Overkast, thanks for the heads up.


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## VegasN

Cool, thanks.


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## Overkast

So progress has been a little slow, as I've spent some time researching magnetic uncoupling and considering if / how I would pursue it. I bought a cheap roll of magnetic tape and cut a small strip to see if I could get my train cars to uncouple with it but to no avail.









It seems for N scale especially, magnetic uncoupling is very temperamental. I don't have too many hard to reach areas on my layout so I might just plan to use a rix pick and sometimes a wand with a rare earth magnet stuck to the end of it so I can reach close to a trip pin from the side to pull it towards the magnet and uncouple that way.

So while I've been doing that, I've also spent some time finally finishing up my scratch-built sawmill to completion! You might remember me saying I like the Walthers sawmill a lot but it was too big for the space I needed, so I decided to build my own smaller version of it that fit to my space requirements. Here's the Walthers sawmill for reference:









I even liked the way they modeled / colored the roof sheets in this kit, so I decided to use the same technique on my sawmill. Here are the steps and end results:

As a reminder, this was my latest progress from a few months ago:









Constructing the top section:









Mounting the top section:

























Using painters tape to section off the rooftop metal sheets:









Using pastel powders to creating the weathering:

















The final product!!!!


----------



## time warp

Looking good! Uncoupling magnets can be a pain, Kadee magnets work best.


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## Lemonhawk

I think the magnets need to be at the sides of the track, not the middle. Magnetic tape is probably not strong enough. I just ordered some small powerful magnets to try out
http://www.banggood.com/100pcs-N50-...eodymium-Magnets-p-980589.html?rmmds=category


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## Overkast

Thanks guys. Time warp, I'm going to try my hand at some rare earth magnets between the rails before I resort to the kadee magnet. Though I agree with you from what I've read that it's reliable, I'd rather not have all magnets that sit on top of the rails if I can avoid it. I also have a few sections where I want the magnets which are not perfectly straight track, so I need something that will work with some rail curvature in those places. I was just testing a cheapo magnet to see if I could get it to work.

Lemonhawk, that's a great price on those magnets. I bought 40 for $9.99 on ebay (but with free shipping).

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## jlc41

Overkast, nice work on the saw mill, primo.


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## VegasN

That sawmill is just friggin awesome! Very nice work.

So I presume you are running all one kind of coupler? What about trucks? Are they all the same as well?


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## Overkast

Thanks guys! I gotta say it does look pretty gratifying even on a messy layout 









Vegas, about the couplers... currently I only have 1 Kato Amtrak set, but I want all my freight to be MT couplers (and eventually Fox Valley wheels). So I'll be trying to make 2 coupler sets work on the layout for the most part.

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## Magic

That saw mill is going to look pretty cool there, nice work on it. Looks good.
Is there going to be a log pond to the right?

Magic


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## Overkast

Magic said:


> That saw mill is going to look pretty cool there, nice work on it. Looks good.
> Is there going to be a log pond to the right?
> 
> Magic


Thanks Magic, and you nailed it... a log pond and conveyor on the right 

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## VegasN

Thanks for the info on the couplers and trucks. So you chose MT. Are you experienced with those? I hear a lot about Kadee trucks. Are you familiar with those?


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Thanks for the info on the couplers and trucks. So you chose MT. Are you experienced with those? I hear a lot about Kadee trucks. Are you familiar with those?


Sorry for the late reply Vegas, been out of pocket for a bit. I also hear good things about Kadee couplers but I'm not really on the up and up with the trucks... care to enlighten me about them?

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## Overkast

Have some progress to share... got some chooch flex walls glued to the tunnel walls in the East Mountain portals:








Since the self adhesive gave me such issues last time, I decided not to peel the paperbacking off / use it again, and opted instead to leave the paperback on and glued the walls.


Also started carving West (Quarry) Mountain and nearly finished... just needs some sanding and patchwork:









































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## VegasN

Man. I can just picture this with landscaping, color, and trains on it......good work where you can infuse a beautiful image at this early stage of construction. Well done!


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> Sorry for the late reply Vegas, been out of pocket for a bit. I also hear good things about Kadee couplers but I'm not really on the up and up with the trucks... care to enlighten me about them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I wish I could. I have not yet got to the point where I have changed all my couplers and/or trucks yet. I am still dealing with Rapido, Bachmann's dummy couplers, and, what seems to me, about 1500 slight variations of knuckle. I can't wait to get to the point where ANY locomotive can hook to ANY car and go.
I have even put some cars with a knuckle on one end and a Rapido on the other, just so I can mix the cars up a bit.
I know very little, so far, about trucks and couplers. I think I have decided I want to go with knuckle. I do like the reliability of Rapidos. Very rare uncoupling issues. But as far as looks, knuckle is better.


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## Overkast

Well it's been an eventful few weeks working on my layout since my last updates. In the last few weeks I have:
1) had to redo some of my chooch flexible tunnel walls, but finally finished all the tunnels
2) did some extensive testing with rare earth magnets for uncoupling 
3) finished a retaining wall along the Riverside next to the sawmill
4) developed more detail on my road bridge
5) created wave textures in the river using Martin T's toilet paper method
6) made some more custom tunnel portals
7) started painting East Mountain and the river banks
8) was short one tunnel portal retaining wall, so I had to create one from scratch

*Chooch tunnel walls*
I had mentioned previously that I decided to adhere the walls inside the tunnels not removing the sticky paper on the back. Well, that was a stupid move - I noticed one of the walls started to separate from the paper and so I knew it was going to be a long term problem I had to deal with. I decided to rip out the tunnel walls (luckily the paper separated easily from the foam) and then I had to peel the paper off the back of the walls, remove all the sticky tack from the back of the walls, and then applied liquid nails to them and set them back up inside the tunnels. All is well now 

*Magnetic uncoupling*
Since I was starting to experiment with magnetic uncoupling, I decided it was time to buy some Micro Trains hopper cars and rare earth magnets. I tried magnets between the ties and wasn't happy with the results - random uncoupling was a problem and is not something I think I'll have the patience to deal with. So I decided to try and make my own drop-away device where the magnets could be mounted to an arm under the track / table that drops away and I could push it up when I want to decouple. 

The idea was to glue the magnets to a small piece of balsa wood, and have the wood mounted to a wire hangar. Then I dug out a rectangle shaft into the foam below the track and lined the sides of the shaft with thin styrene for smooth operation / guiding the wood properly.
















As you can see in the above pic, I planned to use a piece of thin styrene as the cover for the shaft. But as I tested the magnet arm with that styrene cover, I could not get enough force from the magnets through to decouple, so the entire experiment was a failure 

I've decided that N Scale is just too small a scale for magnets. Too strong and you'll derail the cars... too weak and they wont work. The precision you need in N Scale is just too much trouble than its worth to me, so I am going to forge ahead using picks / dowels for manual uncoupling.

*Retaining wall along riverside*
Used a random stone flexible wall from chooch to create this:









*Developed more detail on my road bridge*
Added sidewalks, built up the sides, and added green metal beams across the bottom:








And I have more planned for the bridge, this is only about half done. 

*Created wave textures using toilet paper method*
You can see it in the road bridge pic above, but here's more angles:

























*Made some more custom tunnel portals*
These were for West Mountain and I didn't want an identical concrete style like I have for East Mountain, so I made these entirely out of foam so I could draw brick texture using a pencil:


























*Started painting East Mountain and the river banks*

















*Was short one tunnel portal retaining wall, so I had to create one from scratch *
I had purchased 4 of these retaining walls made out of resin from a guy on eBay...








...but I short changed myself as I used one of them for another area on my layout. So I needed to re-create one from scratch using a combination of leftover chooch flexible wall, some foam, and some balsa wood and styrene to create a firm backing to mount them to. Here's the end result:









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## time warp

Nice, nice work.:thumbsup:


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## Mark VerMurlen

Your landscaping is coming along nicely! The tunnel walls, retaining walls, and tunnel portals look great. You'll find that getting the coloring in place will make a huge difference.

Mark


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## Magic

Coming along very nicely, some clever solutions to some tricky problems.
Too bad the magnet un couplers didn't work out, good try though.

Magic


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## Overkast

Thanks guys. I finished that road bridge tonight as well. Added yellow lines, finished weathering, and made handrails for the final touch. The handrails are made of Atlas flex track sleeper ends with a piece of music wire going through them 

























































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## jlc41

Very impressive, and inspiring. Looks really good. Attention to detail is amazing.


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## Mr.Buchholz

Loving the stone walls and tunnel portals! Also.....the big holes in the back of the mountain will be kept open to access the trains, yes? Or will you put a temporary cover over them to maintain the darkness inside the tunnels? Either way, it's awesome!

-J.


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## VegasN

Dude.......I don't even know what to say any more. You really do make me consider ripping it all out and starting over........


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## Gramps

Great work!:appl: Could you explain the "toilet paper method" you used on your river?


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## Mr.Buchholz

VegasN said:


> Dude.......I don't even know what to say any more. You really do make me consider ripping it all out and starting over........


Me? 

-J.


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## Mark VerMurlen

The roadway bridge looks superb! Really looks nice. You did a great job on it.

Mark


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## Overkast

Thanks all for the high compliments! 



Mr.Buchholz said:


> .....the big holes in the back of the mountain will be kept open to access the trains, yes? Or will you put a temporary cover over them to maintain the darkness inside the tunnels?


Hey Mr. Buchholz... I am still on the fence about this, as I have 2 ideas where one is the easy solution and the other is the more difficult (but nicer looking) approach. For the easy solution I was thinking about just getting black construction paper and forming "tunnel tubes" around the tracks through the mountains to block out light. But I also like the idea of closing off the back of the mountains with a removable board so it looks aesthetically nice (like fascia does). But my plexiglass poses a bit of a challenge getting another board between the plexiglass and the foam - it's already tight back there so I'm thinking about how I can pull that off.



Gramps said:


> Could you explain the "toilet paper method" you used on your river?


Sure thing Gramps. I'm basically copying Martin T's (marklinofsweden) method where you first mix a water/glue solution and apply it to layers of toilet paper using a chip brush. As the toilet paper is soaked, you take the same chip brush and gently "push" the toilet paper to form waves. Let the TP dry, then paint it to create the illusion of depth using various tones and blending. Let it dry again (Martin T recommends for 72 hours) and apply a water-based gloss clear coat over the top to give it that water shine.

Here's a link to Martin T's video about the technique: 
 https://youtu.be/2TwpB7sVMn8

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## Overkast

I took a ride to the hobby shop today to look for some terrain supplies, and I got sucked in to spending some money! They had an Atlas GE B23-7 in the Providence & Worcester paint scheme I've wanted so it was too good to pass up!!! The P&W paint scheme is hard to come by so I felt this was a window of opportunity I couldnt let go. 

...And since I was spending some money, I also bought a used P&W weathered box car for $10 and a used station + 2 platforms for $20 that I had already planned on buying new one day!

My purchases today:









My complete (very small) freight set to date now 









The area on my layout where the station will go:









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## VegasN

Sweet!! That locomotive is gorgeous! I really like the location of your station....clever positioning and will look amazing when you get your landscaping and such done. I know you hear this a million times, but dude, this is truly amazing work!


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## Gramps

Thanks for the info and link Overkast. Your layout is really shaping up nicely. When I'm ready to do a water feature I will try the toilet paper method and appropriately I will call it Schitz Creek.


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## VegasN

Gramps said:


> ....I will call it Schitz Creek.


*HAHA!!*:laugh:

Is that the creek that flows out of Flushing, Queens, N.Y.?


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Sweet!! That locomotive is gorgeous! I really like the location of your station....clever positioning and will look amazing when you get your landscaping and such done. I know you hear this a million times, but dude, this is truly amazing work!


Thanks Vegas! She is a beaut, ain't she?? Here's a video of the REAL loco #2201 in action: 






Gramps said:


> Thanks for the info and link Overkast. Your layout is really shaping up nicely. When I'm ready to do a water feature I will try the toilet paper method and appropriately I will call it Schitz Creek.


Schitz Creek... Gramps, that almost made me spit my coffee out!!:laugh:

Appreciate both your compliments on my landscaping.


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## time warp

That station and platforms was a steal! The figures alone were worth nearly that.


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## Overkast

time warp said:


> That station and platforms was a steal! The figures alone were worth nearly that.


I know right?? And the fact that it was the same exact station I was actually considering in the first place just sealed the deal for me. The craftsmanship on the build is pretty good too - I just need to paint over a few glue globs on the roof and a few other mods (getting rid of the olde time luggage cart) and it'll be good to go.


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## Gramps

VegasN said:


> *HAHA!!*:laugh:
> 
> Is that the creek that flows out of Flushing, Queens, N.Y.?


Funny you said that because I worked in Flushing for several years and while Schitz Creek is more descriptive, the actual name is Flushing Creek.


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## Overkast

Wow, it has been a pricey, but VERY exciting week for me guys. I found an eBay auction, where the seller happened to be a local hobby shop near me, and they were selling a used New England Central Railroad GP38-2 loco with a decoder already installed in it! I presume the NECR road schemes to be even more rare than the Providence and Worcester schemes because I'm pretty sure Atlas has discontinued the scheme from production altogether. So seeing this as another window of opportunity, I had to grab it!!! Luckily my wife was okay with it, but this is seriously my last purchase for a while now.

I nabbed this beauty for only $57 and picked it up from the store instead of having them ship it to me:

























I tested the loco and it didn't come without it's share of troubleshooting issues though. I had to do a lot of work (complete cleaning and some modifications) to get it working right, but it is working damn perfect now.

I documented the entire process + a review of the model in a separate new thread if you're interested in reading:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=113609

P&W and NECR were my top 2 freight roads on the wishlist for my layout, and now I have both! Happy dude over here!!!!


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## Overkast

*Announcement: The Eastern CT Railroad has now officially changed it's road name to the New England Model Railroad (NEMR)!*

For those who follow, you know the theme was in the making for a long while, but due to recent activity in the acquisition of 2 road names this week, the time has arrived!

(Thanks GRJ for the help )


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## VegasN

Gramps said:


> Funny you said that because I worked in Flushing for several years and while Schitz Creek is more descriptive, the actual name is Flushing Creek.


What's even funnier is, I had no idea you knew anything about Flushing, and I had no idea a creek actually does flow out of it. I don't know, maybe I just figured "creeks" in N.Y.C. were like the "L.A. River".:smokin:


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> Wow, it has been a pricey, but VERY exciting week for me guys. I found an eBay auction, where the seller happened to be a local hobby shop near me, and they were selling a used New England Central Railroad GP38-2 loco with a decoder already installed in it! I presume the NECR road schemes to be even more rare than the Providence and Worcester schemes because I'm pretty sure Atlas has discontinued the scheme from production altogether. So seeing this as another window of opportunity, I had to grab it!!! Luckily my wife was okay with it, but this is seriously my last purchase for a while now.
> 
> I nabbed this beauty for only $57 and picked it up from the store instead of having them ship it to me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tested the loco and it didn't come without it's share of troubleshooting issues though. I had to do a lot of work (complete cleaning and some modifications) to get it working right, but it is working damn perfect now.
> 
> I documented the entire process + a review of the model in a separate new thread if you're interested in reading:
> http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=113609
> 
> P&W and NECR were my top 2 freight roads on the wishlist for my layout, and now I have both! Happy dude over here!!!!


CONGRATS!!!! That's awesome! Man, I thought the GP38-2 was nice looking in the Milwaukee Road colors, but that is pretty!!
You should do a YouTube video showing how to fully clean and lube an N scale locomotive. I have been looking for one and can't find one.


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> CONGRATS!!!! That's awesome! Man, I thought the GP38-2 was nice looking in the Milwaukee Road colors, but that is pretty!!
> You should do a YouTube video showing how to fully clean and lube an N scale locomotive. I have been looking for one and can't find one.


Thanks Vegas! I can appreciate your mention of the Milwaukee Road... that is an iconic road scheme throughout history and the orange and blacks / grays have always worked well together.

If you click on the link in my above post which leads to the in-depth review I did of cleaning this loco, I also reference in that review a 3 part YouTube video series from a guy named Don Martin who covers a step-by-step process of cleaning an N Scale locomotive. He does a stellar job explaining how to take apart every single piece and how to clean it properly, and I just followed his process verbatim. I highly recommend it. 

The key piece of cleaning a loco I gathered from my research is that grease is typically used by factory default in assembly but is actually kind of problematic over the long term (it gums up and sticks). So cleaning all your motor parts of grease and re-applying with just a light oil lube instead is the preferred / ideal maintenance care in the industry. In fact some guys who buy a brand new loco, the first thing they will do is open it up and strip it down to clean it of all grease, and apply oil lube instead. You can use hobby oils like Liquid Bearings or Labelle brand, but some people also use 100% synthetic transmission fluid as a lube (but do your research on this - it has to be 100% synthetic because other fossil-based oils will melt plastic parts).

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## VegasN

Very good information to know. Yeah, I've heard so many mention "thorough"cleanings and such, but I couldn't find anyone showing them doing that. I just was not comfortable taking a locomotive apart with out having seen the process first. Otherwise I just take the shell off to have an even less familiar item to work on.


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## Gramps

VegasN said:


> What's even funnier is, I had no idea you knew anything about Flushing, and I had no idea a creek actually does flow out of it. I don't know, maybe I just figured "creeks" in N.Y.C. were like the "L.A. River".:smokin:


I don't want to derail the thread but I don't know why it's called a creek because it's pretty wide and fairly long. I heard that at one time it was a river but they did some landfill many years ago.


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## Overkast

Gramps said:


> I don't want to derail the thread...


It's all good Gramps, I don't mind the chatter 

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## Gramps

Overkast said:


> *Announcement: The Eastern CT Railroad has now officially changed it's road name to the New England Model Railroad (NEMR)!*
> 
> For those who follow, you know the theme was in the making for a long while, but due to recent activity in the acquisition of 2 road names this week, the time has arrived!
> 
> (Thanks GRJ for the help )


This may be an expensive name change because there are plenty of great paint schemes on other New England railroads that will be tough to pass up.


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## Overkast

Gramps said:


> This may be an expensive name change because there are plenty of great paint schemes on other New England railroads that will be tough to pass up.


Amen to that Gramps........ Amen.

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## VegasN

Oh, but the joy of finding them.......


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## Overkast

Well , I haven't been able to achieve what I've wanted to since my last update. I wanted to have some water down on my river by now but I've stumbled on a few things along the way. I painted the river and got the shoreline pretty much the way I wanted it, but as I watched more tutorials on scenery / grass application I realized 2 things:
1) I need to get dirt and grass down on the entire mountain next to the river first, because the liquid cement will run down onto the river in the process (and get scenery material stuck to it and ruin the water effect in the process)
2) I want static grass on my layout, which now means I am building a DIY static grass applicator

Here's some pics of the river development thus far:








































Rock faces also coming along nicely (still more to be done)









I'm also currently troubleshooting a frustrating short circuit in one of my turnouts. At first I thought it was rail contact on the frog due to tight manufacturer spaces between the rails and frog, but after filing wider gaps and playing with the mini DPDT switch I've realized the problem is in the switch. So I have to replace the switch now and do some minor re-soldering.

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## Gramps

It's really shaping up, nice work.:thumbsup:


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## Lemonhawk

Really like that mountain!:appl:


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## Mark VerMurlen

Excellent work on the river. I really like the coloring and the effect you've gotten. The mountain is also looking really good. 

You're probably going to have to find a way to block stuff from coming down the mountain into your river regardless of if you finish it or not. Its to the point now that you won't want anything from above setting onto it. My suggestion would be to cover it with clean sheets (or a roll) of paper and then tape down the edges to your brown "dirt" area to try to seal it off. If the tape ends up pulling up some of your brown paint, that's probably not such a big deal to fix afterwards.

Looking forward to seeing this finished. Its going to be great!

Mark


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## Overkast

Thanks all!



Mark VerMurlen said:


> Excellent work on the river. I really like the coloring and the effect you've gotten. The mountain is also looking really good.
> 
> You're probably going to have to find a way to block stuff from coming down the mountain into your river regardless of if you finish it or not. Its to the point now that you won't want anything from above setting onto it. My suggestion would be to cover it with clean sheets (or a roll) of paper and then tape down the edges to your brown "dirt" area to try to seal it off. If the tape ends up pulling up some of your brown paint, that's probably not such a big deal to fix afterwards.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing this finished. Its going to be great!
> 
> Mark


Mark, I appreciate the compliments and your vote of confidence in the eventual final product  Great suggestions for masking off the river as well - I reckon you are correct in that I should follow the safe approach here considering I've achieved the looks I want and don't want to ruin that. For that matter, I will probably follow the safe approach for the rest of the river as well even though I haven't painted it yet (I still don't want to ruin my toilet paper ripples by letting scenery drop / stick all over it).

My goal at this point is to finish coloring and grassing the entire side of the mountain before I get down there and finish up the rest of the riverbed.


----------



## Overkast

Well I had a hell of a time tonight trying to figure out the short circuit in the slide switch. Installed a new one and it was still shorting! 

Turns out the quick connectors I'm using on the switch pins were touching the metal frame and shorting the system. I had to rig up some kapton tape to isolate the connectors from the frame!









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## MtRR75

Overkast said:


> *Announcement: The Eastern CT Railroad has now officially changed it's road name to the New England Model Railroad (NEMR)!*


Sounds like a merger or buyout. Very prototypical.

Does this mean that ECTR memorabilia will become collector's items?


----------



## Overkast

MtRR75 said:


> Sounds like a merger or buyout. Very prototypical.
> 
> Does this mean that ECTR memorabilia will become collector's items?


LOL!!! Yes, ECTR memorabilia will be VERY rare, due to the railroad's short operational life span of only 2+ years


----------



## VegasN

Ooooooooo.......I need Betzville memorabilia........


----------



## Overkast

Exciting progress! Finally put down my first scenery turf tonight. Also making more progress on the log pond.


















































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## VegasN

Man, that is looking just so d#*n awesome! You should be very proud! I, like everyone else, is so impressed with your skills. Just simply amazing!!


----------



## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Man, that is looking just so d#*n awesome! You should be very proud! I, like everyone else, is so impressed with your skills. Just simply amazing!!


Man, you're too kind Vegas! Thanks so much! I am really proud (so far) and I'm having such a good darn time now too. Man this is so fun...


























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## Magic

That stream and the little bridge in the last pic looks great and the ground cover is 
starting to bring the scene to life. Fine workmanship.

Magic


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## Gramps

Great attention to detail, the creek and stone bridge look real.:appl:


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> Man, you're too kind Vegas! Thanks so much! I am really proud (so far) and I'm having such a good darn time now too. *Man this is so fun...*


Isn't it though?


----------



## Mark VerMurlen

Overkast said:


> Exciting progress! Finally put down my first scenery turf tonight.


Looks great! I have a question for you (and other scenic experts). One of the issues I've run into as I work with the green ground foam stuff is that it tends to get blown around just with the act of trying to wet it down to glue it down. Even my finest mist sprayer tends to have enough force to cause the ground foam to move. How have people dealt with this on their layouts?

Mark


----------



## Overkast

Mark VerMurlen said:


> Looks great! I have a question for you (and other scenic experts). One of the issues I've run into as I work with the green ground foam stuff is that it tends to get blown around just with the act of trying to wet it down to glue it down. Even my finest mist sprayer tends to have enough force to cause the ground foam to move. How have people dealt with this on their layouts?
> 
> Mark


Thanks Mark!Wow, I'm humbled that you would consider me in the "scenic expert" tier considering I'm just getting into this for the first time, and also considering your scenery mastery as well.

I've also run into some issues like you mention and I found that putting down a thicker base layer of glue seems to work well. For example, instead of just dropping the turf on a dry surface, I use a thicker water/glue mix (either 50/50 glue water or even better a 75 glue/25 water mix) and use a paint brush to paint the surface. Then I drop my first layer of turf over that glue and it sticks.

Whats great is that after you let it sit for a bit, you can use a vacuum to clean up all the loose turf around it and all the glued turf will stay - which makes for a nice clean edge if you need it.

After the base layer dries, to add additional layers of turf I will drop the new turf right on top of the base layer and wet everything with alcohol and then go over it with scenic cement. Let new layer dry and rinse / repeat for every time you add more layers of turf.

Hope this helps?


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## VegasN

I do the same thing with mine, glue the base layer. But I wet mine with "wet water" rather than alcohol. It's cheaper
Oh, and I pull the trigger on the spray bottle vveeerrrryyyyy slowly.


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## time warp

Keep up the good work, Overkast!:thumbsup:


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## Overkast

More progress tonight. Staged some pics with the truss bridge and then got to work on some of the road:









































Close-up of more log pond shore progress:









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## CTValleyRR

Mark VerMurlen said:


> Looks great! I have a question for you (and other scenic experts). One of the issues I've run into as I work with the green ground foam stuff is that it tends to get blown around just with the act of trying to wet it down to glue it down. Even my finest mist sprayer tends to have enough force to cause the ground foam to move. How have people dealt with this on their layouts?
> 
> Mark


At the risk of a thread hijack...

If I'm ready to put ground cover down right away, I sprinkle it into the wet paint. Otherwise, I paint the area with full strength matte medium and sprinkle ground cover on. Either way, this provides some initial "tooth" to hold things in place.

When I use alcohol / wet water, I spray UP, and let the mist settle on the layout, rather than spraying AT the layout. Since I don't want adhesive going everywhere (which this method tends to do), I dribble it on from an old glue bottle, as close to ground level as I can.

Work in small areas (4 square feet) at a time.


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## Lemonhawk

Nice looking bridges! Both the RR truss and the highway bridge! Really makes the scene come alive!


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## VegasN

So, can I move into your layout?


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> So, can I move into your layout?


Absolutely Vegas! I would be honored to have you take up residence in the NEMR. I hope you like the Walthers Cape Cod House because that's the only house I have right now 

 http://www.hobbylinc.com/walthers-...gng-UrHAMeAqFTD1iYeSJO5-JngkQXx0owaAgQM8P8HAQ

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## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> Absolutely Vegas! I would be honored to have you take up residence in the NEMR. I hope you like the Walthers Cape Cod House because that's the only house I have right now
> 
> http://www.hobbylinc.com/walthers-...gng-UrHAMeAqFTD1iYeSJO5-JngkQXx0owaAgQM8P8HAQ
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I'm betting he wants to be a hobo and just ride the trains!


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## Overkast

CTValleyRR said:


> I'm betting he wants to be a hobo and just ride the trains!


Well in that case, I'll have to get him is very own special box car!

Vegas, go ahead and pick out an N Scale box car of your choice and send me a link to it... I'll make sure you have a home on the NEMR 

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## VegasN

Heck, I'll be all over the town, mountains, river, trains......everything......
EVERYBODY in town will know me......I'll be the only one moving......


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Heck, I'll be all over the town, mountains, river, trains......everything......
> EVERYBODY in town will know me......I'll be the only one moving......


Alright then, so be it... the adventures of "Vegas in New England" is about to begin...

What's your all-time favorite railroad / road name?

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## time warp

Better budget in some bail money, give him an inch.........


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## VegasN

TW, it amazes me how someone who just barely met me online....seems to know me so well...haha.

Fav? Hmmm? Darn good question. Not sure if I have a favorite , know so very little about them. UP is what is around here, but, as a business, they suck. But, still, being local and all.
I am kind of fond of anything Ohio related, seeing as I was born there. But, then again, I did leave there at 14, and pretty much never went back.....so there is that...
I think one of the most attractive trains is The Daylight Special....beautiful. But, I know NOTHING about it. I also like (can't explain why) NS locomotives, although I know even less about the company.
I know, such a train fan, and a hot mess! But this railroad world is new to me....but I love it.
I find myself gravitating to the rail road war eras.....kinda getting into in to the REAL history of rail roads as companies. Brutal.........
And, yes, it was a long reply with no answer.......sorry. My "Holy Grail" of trains though, is the old Aerotrain that used to run thru Vegas back in the 50's.


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## CTValleyRR

VegasN said:


> TW, it amazes me how someone who just barely met me online....seems to know me so well...haha.
> 
> Fav? Hmmm? Darn good question. Not sure if I have a favorite , know so very little about them. UP is what is around here, but, as a business, they suck. But, still, being local and all.
> I am kind of fond of anything Ohio related, seeing as I was born there. But, then again, I did leave there at 14, and pretty much never went back.....so there is that...
> I think one of the most attractive trains is The Daylight Special....beautiful. But, I know NOTHING about it. I also like (can't explain why) NS locomotives, although I know even less about the company.
> I know, such a train fan, and a hot mess! But this railroad world is new to me....but I love it.
> I find myself gravitating to the rail road war eras.....kinda getting into in to the REAL history of rail roads as companies. Brutal.........
> And, yes, it was a long reply with no answer.......sorry. My "Holy Grail" of trains though, is the old Aerotrain that used to run thru Vegas back in the 50's.


Clearly, then, your answer is "all of them"... and that's cool with me. I love anything trains, too. Even bad trains are better than no trains.

And remember, what happens to Vegas stays with Vegas...

P.s. Apologies to Overkast for diverting attention into some harmless fun. I hope we aren't messing up your build thread too badly.


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## Overkast

CTValleyRR said:


> P.s. Apologies to Overkast for diverting attention into some harmless fun. I hope we aren't messing up your build thread too badly.


CTValleyRR, I really appreciate the concern and respect for my build thread, but honestly I love the chatter and welcome it! Post on... 



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## time warp

If the V man has no preference, may I suggest a Hyundai container on a stack car?:laugh:


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## Lemonhawk

Vegas, I'm a Buckeye growing up in northwestern OH, mainly Fostoria in the 50's (train heaven). Eventually we settled in Columbus, and after I graduated from college, went to Indiana, MN and now FL.


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## VegasN

Lemonhawk said:


> Vegas, I'm a Buckeye growing up in northwestern OH, mainly Fostoria in the 50's (train heaven). Eventually we settled in Columbus, and after I graduated from college, went to Indiana, MN and now FL.


What a small world. I was born in NW OH, Canton. Grew up in Westerville. Lived in SW FL. for a few years, now in Vegas.


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## Lemonhawk

My brother lived in Clean Green BC for awhile so I've spent some time in Vegas also, but many years ago.


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## VegasN

Nice! I really loved it here......till I got into model trains. In the train department, real or not......we, sadly, seriously suck.


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## Overkast

More progress on the road going through the valley. Also placed the footings for the Gantry Crane that unloads logs from cars into the log pond:

















And also just finished building a DIY static grass applicator!!!








Can't wait to try it out!

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## Magic

You're moving right along there overkast.
This is going to look so cool when done.
Great work.

Magic


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## jlc41

Looking real good. That grass applicator looks good too. Can you give us some details on it?


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## CTValleyRR

Early editions of Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine had a series of articles on making your own static grass applicator. Back issues and a searchable index are available on their web site at www.model-railroad-Hobbyist.com


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## jlc41

10-4 I'll look into that. Thanks for the link.


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## Overkast

Thanks guys.

jlc41 - I watched videos and researched the internet to see what others were doing for DIY static grass applicators. There are some super-cheap and easy options (like modifying a bug zapper racket) and there are some more elaborate methods (using a negative ion generator) that will cost a bit more, but is still cheaper than buying retail.

From what I've read, some say the bug-zapper method isn't as powerful because the power source is batteries. So there are solutions to make more powerful ones that run off 12v power using a power pack / plug (which is what I did).

Ultimately, my applicator is a hybrid of 2 different DIY solutions. The PVC handle and pieces / cuts / mountings I followed Luke Towan's 2 part video series:





But for the wiring / electronic components, I followed CSX Dixie Line's method because I like how it used a SPST rocker switch instead of a DPDT slide switch, and also liked how I could just plug in and use a 12v power pack without having to cut / strip the wiring to fit it to the components.


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## Lemonhawk

Can't wait to see how your static grass dispenser works and how the grass looks. Fascinating idea. Its one of those things i've been thinking about but I just never seem to get to the scenery part before I decide to start all over.


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## jlc41

Overkast, thanks for the infoe.


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## Gramps

Gramps said:


> Thanks for the info and link Overkast. Your layout is really shaping up nicely. When I'm ready to do a water feature I will try the toilet paper method and appropriately I will call it Schitz Creek.


I'm bringing this up because I'm ready for the aforementioned creek but I' don't see what ratio of water/glue mix he used. What did you use?


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## Overkast

Gramps said:


> I'm bringing this up because I'm ready for the aforementioned creek but I' don't see what ratio of water/glue mix he used. What did you use?


Hey Gramps. He uses a 50/50 mix (he mentions it in other tutorial videos I've seen).

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## Overkast

So I thoroughly tested out my static grass applicator tonight, and I have mixed feelings about the results. Not sure if the fibers I bought are just a bit short (could be a good thing for N scale), or if the applicator isn't working.

I bought a mix of 1/16" and 1/8" flock fibers, and from a birds eye view it's hard to tell. I have to get at ground level view to notice the grass:




































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## VegasN

Looks like N scale to me. I guess that's why this one model railroader I watched, back at the beginning, who said when he does N scale, he will purposely omit certain details as to not loose the scene. 
I used to do a lot of graphite drawings, and have found that to be true on drawings.....sometimes to much details actually muddies the overall look and you loose realism. 
I have no idea if this is the same situation or not. But it seems logical that the with size of N scale, this detail just might be lost.


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## jlc41

Overkast, could be VegasN is on to something. I can see that some grass seems to standing but most looks like it's not. First pic looks best.


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## Gramps

Thanks for the mixture ratio information. 

Your grass looks fine. You may want to put a tree on the grass and take a photo and see how they match.


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## Overkast

Thanks for the feedback on the static grass guys. Vegas does have some good points about this detail possibly being lost in N Scale, but not sure I'm quite at that point where I'm ready to give up on it yet.

The thing I'm struggling with is that I'm not sure my applicator is actually working. It seemed to produce the same results when I had it switched both on and off. I also tried touching the metal screen and alligator clips and wasn't getting shocked, which leads me to believe either it's not actually working or the power adapter I'm using is too weak (12v, 0.5A 500mA AC to DC switching).


----------



## Overkast

After more research, I believe the dilemma with my applicator may be the negative ion generator I'm using. I found a post on another forum where Luke Towan warned others about using generators made in China (which mine is), and rather recommended using the Oatley Electronics one as it is specifically made with the intent of static grass applicators. This is also the one single electronic part I didn't follow in the CSX Dixie DIY build (he also uses an Oatley). 

The Oatley generators are only available from Australia. Buying one will cost me another $24. I'm at a crossroads wondering if I should do it, or try my luck with one of the cheaper bug zapper DIYs instead...

UGH


----------



## CTValleyRR

Overkast said:


> After more research, I believe the dilemma with my applicator may be the negative ion generator I'm using. I found a post on another forum where Luke Towan warned others about using generators made in China (which mine is), and rather recommended using the Oatley Electronics one as it is specifically made with the intent of static grass applicators. This is also the one single electronic part I didn't follow in the CSX Dixie DIY build (he also uses an Oatley).
> 
> The Oatley generators are only available from Australia. Buying one will cost me another $24. I'm at a crossroads wondering if I should do it, or try my luck with one of the cheaper bug zapper DIYs instead...
> 
> UGH


Go check the MRH articles i referred to in an earlier post. There were detailed parts lists, which may help you find something that will work.


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## Overkast

CTValleyRR said:


> Go check the MRH articles i referred to in an earlier post. There were detailed parts lists, which may help you find something that will work.


Thanks CTValleyRR... Just read the articles. Everything I've got checks out EXCEPT the negative ion generator, so I'm convinced that's the issue. Welp, here goes another $24!!!


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## Lemonhawk

I would think that one of the weak points with static generators is the grounding to the layout. It might be susceptible to how wet with glue/water things are. Also, I thought that one vacuumed the grass soon after application to get it to stand up better - never having done any of this - feel free to ignore my comments!


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## Overkast

Lemonhawk said:


> I would think that one of the weak points with static generators is the grounding to the layout. It might be susceptible to how wet with glue/water things are. Also, I thought that one vacuumed the grass soon after application to get it to stand up better - never having done any of this - feel free to ignore my comments!


Ignore your comments?? Nonsense! It's all helpful feedback and I'm going to try both a vacuum and the static baloon method as tests... so thank you 

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## VegasN

By all means, I certainly would not give up just yet. Maybe even adding more of the grass itself may help as well. Again, referring to graphite work, building up in layers helps to achieve depth and realism.
See where you go, to decide if I try it or not.......someday......


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## Overkast

Agreed about building up scenery in layers Vegas! 

And since my static grass "layer" is on hold for a few weeks waiting for a new ion generator, I must keep moving and progress in other areas. So I finally applied my first layer of Liquitex water gloss last night, and also starting to do some road lines:

















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## Lemonhawk

I'm thinking your existing ION generator is actually working - it did stand the short grass up! I also vaguely recall that they put a sock (hose) or something on the vacuum to collect the loose grass so it could be used again.


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## Overkast

Lemonhawk said:


> I'm thinking your existing ION generator is actually working - it did stand the short grass up! I also vaguely recall that they put a sock (hose) or something on the vacuum to collect the loose grass so it could be used again.


I don't know Lemonhawk... the thing that leads me to believe the ion generator wasn't working or is too weak is that I was getting the same results whether the toggle switch was on or off.

I have been using the nylon over a vacuum method and it works well! Definitely helps save a lot of material.

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## Shadow001

Overkast,

I just went through your whole thread and your layout is looking Amazing! Thanks for all the ideas and the motivation to get back to work on mine.


----------



## Mark VerMurlen

Overkast, your river looks outstanding!! Fantastic realism and look of depth to the water!

Mark


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## jlc41

Overkast, outstanding work. The realism is fantastic. Thanks for posting.


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## VegasN

It's unanimous! Awesome!!


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## Lemonhawk

Well when the the on/off switch seems to make no difference that is definitely a little suspicious! Somehow I don't think I would want to test the high voltage end!


----------



## Overkast

Wow, thank you all for the compliments! I really appreciate all your kind words 

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## Overkast

More progress, I am done getting all the fine turf down next to the river so I can finally paint the rest of the river now. That should be done within a few days. Also making more progress on the road lines and added a dirt road "back entrance" to the rail yard off the main road. I used sand as the texture and I'll eventually weather it to add tire track marks, etc.

































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## Gramps

You are continuing to do great work.


----------



## IlliniViking

Your layout is coming along very nicely. :appl:


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## 89Suburban

Nice work.


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## Tony35

Looking good :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Overkast

Hey Vegas, your boxcar came in today  Now just waiting on my 100 pc figures to come in on the slow boat from China before the "Adventures of Vegas in New England" can begin.

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## time warp

There might be a delay in getting those people past security.


----------



## Overkast

NEMR import security is very strict! I may have to smuggle them into the layout through one of the mountain back entrances!

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## Rusty

Your layout looks good. :smilie_daumenpos:


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## Overkast

Thanks Rusty!

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## time warp

Overkast said:


> NEMR import security is very strict! I may have to smuggle them into the layout through one of the mountain back entrances!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



Ha ha:laugh:
I DO like the arrangement around the highway bridge.


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## VegasN

Boxcar? 100pc people? It's certainly beginning like a Vegas story.......


----------



## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Boxcar? 100pc people? It's certainly beginning like a Vegas story.......


LOL!!! I didn't even think of that... that's hilarious. I actually bought the 100 pcs so I can paint my Vegas hobo in different positions around the layout for different scenes, and I didn't want to spend a fortune on figures!

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## aeb401

Looking forward to seeing the progress on this layout. Especially since I live right on the P&W in Providence RI.


----------



## VegasN

aeb401 said:


> Looking forward to seeing the progress on this layout. Especially since I live right on the P&W in Providence RI.


Sweet! Beautiful little state.


----------



## Overkast

aeb401 said:


> Looking forward to seeing the progress on this layout. Especially since I live right on the P&W in Providence RI.


Awesome! Can't wait to start running the P&W B23-7 then! 

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## Overkast

More progress... finished painting the rest of the river tonight. Also decorated the shores with sand and rocks (but they're not in the photos).

































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## Mark VerMurlen

Excellent work! It looks amazing! Your cliffs look so life like that I'm sure it would be easy to fool people that your photographs are of real landscape.

Mark


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## VegasN

Just phenomenal!!


----------



## Overkast

Thank you guys!  I'll be able to start adding the gloss to the river on Thursday (typical to wait 72 hours for the paint to dry first). Also I started adding sand to get the sawmill scene close to completion and also started adding my first track ballast yesterday as well, so more updates coming soon in a few days (maybe the weekend).


----------



## VegasN

We'll be waiting right here.....


----------



## Gramps

Overkast said:


> Thank you guys!  I'll be able to start adding the gloss to the river on Thursday (typical to wait 72 hours for the paint to dry first). Also I started adding sand to get the sawmill scene close to completion and also started adding my first track ballast yesterday as well, so more updates coming soon in a few days (maybe the weekend).


:appl: I'm looking forward to seeing how the gloss turns out. I have started working on Schitz Creek using the TP method.


----------



## VegasN

Gramps said:


> :appl: I'm looking forward to seeing how the gloss turns out. I have started working on Schitz Creek using the TP method.


You know, I was browsing Netflix the other day and saw a show called Schitzz Creek......haven't seen it yet though......been stuck on Shameless (U.S.).......


----------



## Overkast

Gramps said:


> :appl: I'm looking forward to seeing how the gloss turns out. I have started working on Schitz Creek using the TP method.


Gramps, I'll keep you posted for sure. There's a part in the TP method where Martin T says to add a layer of glue (you probably saw me ask him about it in the other thread). He never replied though, so I'm experimenting a bit. So far I have done the glue method and everything turns out fine, but I'm curious to see the results if I don't do the glue layer. I'll let you know the results when I'm done so you know if it's worth adding the glue layer or not.

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## Overkast

This is just a rant... but I had a horrible experience ballasting tonight. Made the mistake of spraying the alcohol first instead of using the precision eyedropper method... and it made a goddamn mess! What a PITA.

On a positive note, my Oatley ion generator came in from OZ for my DIY static grass applicator, and by God it works great! So it really was the POS ion generator from China that sucked!!! 

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## time warp

There ain't no fixin' junk equipment! It's like rearranging chairs on the Titanic.:hah::rippedhand: Rock On.


----------



## Gramps

Overkast said:


> Gramps, I'll keep you posted for sure. There's a part in the TP method where Martin T says to add a layer of glue (you probably saw me ask him about it in the other thread). He never replied though, so I'm experimenting a bit. So far I have done the glue method and everything turns out fine, but I'm curious to see the results if I don't do the glue layer. I'll let you know the results when I'm done so you know if it's worth adding the glue layer or not.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I don't understand the glue layer either. Why not use additional layers of gloss?:dunno:


----------



## VegasN

Overkast said:


> This is just a rant... but I had a horrible experience ballasting tonight. Made the mistake of spraying the alcohol first instead of using the precision eyedropper method... and it made a goddamn mess! What a PITA.
> 
> On a positive note, my Oatley ion generator came in from OZ for my DIY static grass applicator, and by God it works great! So it really was the POS ion generator from China that sucked!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Rant? I surely don't know what those are........


----------



## Lemonhawk

Well if it was like some of the electronic modules I bet from china, there are no instructions, diagrams or any idea of how to connect any thing up. a little frustrating, so you have to be able trace the circuit to figure out what goes where.


----------



## Overkast

So Gramps, here's my assessment on the gloss finish and glue vs. no glue debate for water effects...

It seems to me the only purpose the glue serves is to add a layer of thickness that helps smooth out the tiny ripples in the TP that may create the illusion of excessive water rippling. I used Elmer's glue, but it comes with a slight cost - it dries clear for the most part, but with an ever-so-slight haze that slightly dulls the paint color underneath. But it's so minuscule that I didn't even notice the haze until I had 2 bodies of water next to each other, where one of them has no glue and the other does have the glue.

Although I must also say, I think the glue might also dull the reflectivity of light on the surface of the gloss as well, which might be a good thing. The part of my river that doesn't have glue on it yet is reflecting my ceiling light so much that it's almost hard to look at! I might actually prefer the glue simply for that reason alone.

Since I'm already committed to the glue, I'm going to finish out the rest of my river also using glue... but if you really want your paint colors to be as vibrant as possible, I recommend you skip the glue step and do at least 6 layers of gloss instead. Just be ready for a *super-shiny* surface as well though


----------



## Overkast

Lemonhawk said:


> Well if it was like some of the electronic modules I bet from china, there are no instructions, diagrams or any idea of how to connect any thing up. a little frustrating, so you have to be able trace the circuit to figure out what goes where.


Lemonhawk, it wasn't as complicated as that scenario, but the quality factor is on par with the frustration factor for sure!


----------



## VegasN

Frustration = quality? Shoot, I should have a super high quality layout:laugh:


----------



## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Frustration = quality? Shoot, I should have a super high quality layout:laugh:


Haha. No, I meant the *lack* of quality was on par with the frustration...


----------



## Gramps

Overkast said:


> So Gramps, here's my assessment on the gloss finish and glue vs. no glue debate for water effects...
> 
> It seems to me the only purpose the glue serves is to add a layer of thickness that helps smooth out the tiny ripples in the TP that may create the illusion of excessive water rippling. I used Elmer's glue, but it comes with a slight cost - it dries clear for the most part, but with an ever-so-slight haze that slightly dulls the paint color underneath. But it's so minuscule that I didn't even notice the haze until I had 2 bodies of water next to each other, where one of them has no glue and the other does have the glue.
> 
> Although I must also say, I think the glue might also dull the reflectivity of light on the surface of the gloss as well, which might be a good thing. The part of my river that doesn't have glue on it yet is reflecting my ceiling light so much that it's almost hard to look at! I might actually prefer the glue simply for that reason alone.
> 
> Since I'm already committed to the glue, I'm going to finish out the rest of my river also using glue... but if you really want your paint colors to be as vibrant as possible, I recommend you skip the glue step and do at least 6 layers of gloss instead. Just be ready for a *super-shiny* surface as well though


Thanks for the info. I went with the Mod Podge because I found out it's also used by jig saw puzzle makers as a glue/coating to keep the puzzle together. That led me to believe that it would not yellow and the responses I got on another thread confirmed that. I decided to not use the white glue and used the Mod Podge to glue some pebbles on to the creek to look like rocks and it seems to be working. I just put my 5th coating on and I'm happy with the result.


----------



## Overkast

Welp, a little longer than "this weekend" but I finally have some progress worthy of posting...


Scratch-built a log conveyor for my sawmill out of matches
Got all the logs glued down in the log pond
Finished most of the sawmill property's scenery
Completed the rest of the river going through the valley
Nearly complete building a Gantry Crane for the sawmill that unloads logs off the train and into the log pond

Here's shots of all the progress...

Matches to build the sawmill

















Gantry Crane close-ups

















Logs and log conveyor (conveyor still needs a bit more work)

























Other perspective shots

































The Gantry Crane has been particularly challenging! Those crane arms are so thin, it takes patience and one glue spot at a time to perfect. It's taking days to complete such a simple little structure!


----------



## jlc41

Absolutely fantastic, particularly the water effect, looks real as dose every thing else.


----------



## time warp

Bravo!:appl:


----------



## Gramps

Absolutely great work! Thanks for posting. :appl:


----------



## Shadow001

Looks.......WOW very good. :appl:


----------



## Kloudbuster

Beautiful

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## Overkast

Thanks all! I'm now starting to focus on the village center gas station across the street from the sawmill. I just need to finish that side of the street and then I'll have the whole river valley center done... then I can finally clean some things up and start running some trains!:smilie_daumenpos:


----------



## VegasN

Now *THAT* is very exciting!! I'm looking forward to seeing trains on my new home......


----------



## Magic

Outstanding work Overkast, Is looking super.
The crane is especially nice as is the pond.

Magic


----------



## Mark VerMurlen

Looks outstanding! Great job on the crane. There's no way that I could assemble something that small and have it turn out that good looking. I thing you'll appreciate all the work you've done much more after you have your trains running through the scenery. It will look fantastic.

Mark


----------



## Overkast

Thanks all! And Mark, thanks - yes, the crane has definitely been the most challenging assembly yet. I just finally put the last glue drops on the crane arms tonight. It has taken an incredible amount of patience going so slowly to make sure it comes out right. 

While I was working on the crane, I also occupied myself with building a wheelchair ramp for one of my stations. I made it out of a wood shim cut to narrow width and in 3 pieces and cut paperclips and music wire to size for the posts and railings:

























You can see the gas station development behind the station... they will both share a parking lot:









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## Magic

Now there is a cool idea.
Never though of using shims. 
I've got some ramps to build and this just might work.

Magic


----------



## jlc41

Overkast, very nice detail on the ramp. I did something similar but less detail.


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## Overkast

jlc41 said:


> Overkast, very nice detail on the ramp. I did something similar but less detail.
> View attachment 291250
> 
> 
> View attachment 291258


Nice ramp jlc41! And thank you. Did you make that out of styrene?

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## Overkast

Quick fun update... finished customizing my Hobo Vegas figurines for the upcoming "Vegas in New England" series. I have a sitting Vegas, a walking Vegas, and a "Zen moment" stationary / observing Vegas. Proper painting to commence soon 

The hobo satchels are made from Elmer's sticky tack super glued to twist-tie wire. 2 of them I had to cut and re-glue an arm to reposition it better for the satchel rod.

Oh and made a couple of stair-steps for the sawmill too...









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## VegasN

Love them!!

Love your work as well. That wheelchair ramp......pure genius!


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## jlc41

Overkast, I like to use card stock. Like the hobo's, looking forward to seeing the painted versions. Yes, I have had to Frankenstein a few figures too, to get the pose I want or fit a vehicle etc.


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## Overkast

Not much to update this week. Up until yesterday I hadn't touched the layout in a week. Between going away for the weekend and then getting sick right when I came home, I've been down and out and just getting back into the swing now. Right now I'm still focusing on the gas station and passenger station areas. Finished painting the parking lot and surrounding brown dirt color, and working on kit and scratch assembly for both. BUT, I'm happy to say I finally completed my *Hobo Vegas* collection, and he's ready for some upcoming adventures 









Hobo Vegas patiently awaits the construction of the South passenger station on NEMR:


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## VegasN

Hey......I think I like Hobo Vegas.....you said he is patient.....maybe I can learn a thing or 2 from the N scale me........
Great job on them! Very meticulous work. I think Hobo Vegas learned his patience from you, certainly didn't get it from my side......
I am actually getting legitimately excited to see this develop!!


----------



## jlc41

Very nice job on the the hobo's.


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## Overkast

Thanks guys! And Vegas, your hobo self is MUCH more patient than your real self... because he has no agenda except to ride the rails and soak up the discovery of new lands


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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> Thanks guys! And Vegas, your hobo self is MUCH more patient than your real self... because he has no agenda except to ride the rails and soak up the discovery of new lands


My hobo self is embarking on an almost perfect life......


----------



## time warp

He(they) are made of solid plastic so...........

I don't know about the "perfect life" part, seems more like the Matrix!


----------



## VegasN

I live in Vegas, there are plenty of plastic people here.......inside and out.:laugh::laugh:


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## Overkast

More progress on the gas and passenger stations. Staging the lots with cars so I know where to mark the parking spaces for line-painting. 









Happy to have the station platform coverings glued in place. Here's another angle:









The main station building is also removable, in case I want to add lighting in the future:









My plan for all my structures is to try and have removable parts so I can easily add lighting in the future.

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## time warp

Very good!


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## VegasN

Looks incredible!! Fantastic job!!


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## jlc41

Coming along very nicely. Good idea about the lighting, that's what I've done with my buildings too.


----------



## Nikola

Awesome. Please, what follows is not criticism but observation:

Road surfaces do not have surgically smooth edges and the color of the road and parrking lot surface varies.

Again, an observation, not a criticism as what you are doing there looks fantastic.


----------



## Lemonhawk

I doubt Overkast is done with those roads! I've been thinking about lighting in buildings and I've decided that I'll use WS2812b LED's, they take 5 volts and have a single line data in and data out that you connect serially, so all the LED's would be connected in a long serial string. You can then program each LED (their RGB LED's) with the brightness. Each LED get a 24 bit serial stream, 8 bits for each R-G-B LED. All dynamically controlled by an Arduino computer. You could wire them all up and then figure out where each one is. Gives you great control over color and brightness! of each LED on the string.


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## Overkast

Nikola said:


> Awesome. Please, what follows is not criticism but observation:
> 
> Road surfaces do not have surgically smooth edges and the color of the road and parrking lot surface varies.
> 
> Again, an observation, not a criticism as what you are doing there looks fantastic.


Thanks Nikola, no offense taken. Lemonhawk is right though, I'm not done with the roads yet. As I finish all the line markings, I will refine the edges of the roads with sand, dirt, and grasses that will help hide and blend the edges.



Lemonhawk said:


> I've been thinking about lighting in buildings and I've decided that I'll use WS2812b LED's, they take 5 volts and have a single line data in and data out that you connect serially, so all the LED's would be connected in a long serial string. You can then program each LED (their RGB LED's) with the brightness. Each LED get a 24 bit serial stream, 8 bits for each R-G-B LED. All dynamically controlled by an Arduino computer. You could wire them all up and then figure out where each one is. Gives you great control over color and brightness! of each LED on the string.


Lemonhawk, this is very intriguing to me. I must admit, I am a complete LED noob - I know next to nothing about how to wire and control LEDs, so I have MUCH to learn about them. When it comes time, I am going to want to go the most easy / simple rout and also have the LED power independent of the track power, but that's about all I know right now


----------



## VegasN

I agree. I think when I get to that point, I want my lighting on a separate power than the track, and that I will need much guidance on.......someday.......


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## jlc41

I'll drink to that. I know it will help me tidy up my wiring.


----------



## Overkast

Well, I certainly had an eventful night last night... packed full of lows, but then finally ending on a BIG high note.

*THE LOWS*
Attempting to finish the gas station parking lot with lines, I was using my thin line painting pen to mark my starting points with a tiny dot. Well, I must have pushed too hard and a giant blot of white paint came out of the pen Being an oil based paint, I attempted to use alcohol to clean it up quickly, but also knowing the risks that it would probably strip away the parking lot gray paint too... and it did  








*AND* I have no more parking lot gray paint left, so now I need to mix more and try to match it. Ugh...

Frustrated with scenery at this point, I decided it was time to do something different for a change, and so this was the moment I was going to clean up the layout and track, and finally run some trains!!! So I get to on the cleaning and gave mainlines 1 and 2 tracks a good alcohol cleaning. And so after finishing that, I break out my 3 locos and start testing them on the track to ensure good electrical pickup. That's when more problems arose...

*First issue* is one I thought I fixed a while ago with my used Atlas GP-38, with the motor stopping randomly from shifting inside the chassis. Apparently the toothpick wedge I had in there to stop the motor from shifting position got dislodged when I dropped the loco's case (luckily the loco was fine). So I had to re-wedge to fix it again. But here's the kicker... when I ran my brand new P&W Atlas B23-7 loco, it ran into* the same exact problem*!!!! What the heck is going on with Atlas locos' chassis design??? So darned frustrating. So I basically had to do the same thing to the B23-7 to keep it running, and lessons learned that I need to handle these locos super carefully and not jostle them around to avoid risk of the motor shifting inside them.

*Second issue* was the front pilot on the locos were hitting the middle road section between the rails at one of my railroad crossings and derailing the locos! I thought for sure I had those sections low enough, but I guess not. Perhaps there was a minute shift in their elevation when I did some ballasting around them, and when working in N scale there is no room for forgiveness! So now I had to rip out both mid-sections at the crossing and I'll need to re-do them eventually 









*BUT FINALLY THE BIG HIGH NOTE*
I took out all the rolling stock I own, got everything setup, and ran trains for quite a while.... and MAN DID IT FEEL GOOD!!!! Trains went around the table flawlessly with great electrical pickup. I took a 3 minute video for you guys to enjoy and also a ton of pictures for you to feast your eyes on. *Hobo Vegas even made an appearance riding the rails of NEMR in his trusty CSX boxcar!* 

*Video:*





*Photos:*









































































Hobo Vegas!


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## CTValleyRR

I wouldn't sweat the parking lot paint matching too much. Real pavement gets patched all the time, resulting in different colored sections.


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## time warp

Well, well! Good for you.Running trains is good for what ails ya.

Parking lot: put an oily spot there with a broken down car that's been towed in.

Crossing clearance: Don't do that anymore!

Motor trouble: Might go away with some good hard runnin'

Trains running: Enjoyment! And doesn't that mean your layout is doing it's job?


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## Gramps

It's good to see it running, thanks for the video and nice weathering job on the box cars. :thumbsup:


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## jlc41

Good for you, running trains, good for the soul. Very nice video. Looks fantastic and the Hobo is enjoying it too. The beauty of it is there is more to come which I am looking forward to. The issues you encountered are part of the challenge. What happens to me is I sleep on it and low and behold a solution comes to mind. It's amazing.


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## Overkast

Thanks for the reassurances on the parking lot guys. Don't know what I'm gonna do about it just yet, but not worried too much. At least I'm running some trains now 



Gramps said:


> It's good to see it running, thanks for the video and nice weathering job on the box cars. :thumbsup:


Thanks Gramps. I must admit though, I bought the boxcars weathered... can't take any credit for them


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## Overkast

jlc41 said:


> Good for you, running trains, good for the soul. Very nice video. Looks fantastic and the Hobo is enjoying it too. The beauty of it is there is more to come which I am looking forward to. The issues you encountered are part of the challenge. What happens to me is I sleep on it and low and behold a solution comes to mind. It's amazing.


Indeed it is good for the soul! I felt better instantly as soon I started running them 

I've already started reconstructing the grade crossings with thinner styrene pieces. Shouldn't be an issue. I might try my hand at mixing and matching a new parking lot gray. I hear what you all are saying about discoloration from pavement patching, it's just that's not the ideal spot for patchwork in my mind (it's a parking space, not a heavily-trafficked area).

I'll have to sleep on it


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## Nikola

CTValleyRR said:


> I wouldn't sweat the parking lot paint matching too much. Real pavement gets patched all the time, resulting in different colored sections.


What he said. Real paving is all different colors, and then add in patches and other repairs. Dirty it up some or even do a section with a different shade demarcated with those little liquid asphalt squiggly lines you see in RL.

Don't forget to add some manhole covers or sewer drains. Gotta have drainage!


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## VegasN

Oh, here is Vegas, our parking spots are oil, dirt, soda, whatever stained. More so than traffic areas.....I guess our cars only leak when you park 'em.


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## VegasN

That video was awesome!! Man, your track work is on point. They run so smooth all the way around. Excellent job!
Love Hobo Vegas....man he/I look(s) like he/I is having the time of his/my life......


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> That video was awesome!! Man, your track work is on point. They run so smooth all the way around. Excellent job!
> Love Hobo Vegas....man he/I look(s) like he/I is having the time of his/my life......


Thanks Vegas! I hope you like your CSX boxcar. There is / will be a backstory to it... 

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## Magic

Looks really good, trans run as smooth as silk.
That's what I do when things aren't going right.
Run some trains and all is good.

Magic


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## Mark VerMurlen

Congratulations on getting some trains running. It's very gratifying and is great payback for all the hours spent building to date. Your layout looks spectacular!

Mark


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## Overkast

Thanks guys! Appreciate all the kind words.

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## VegasN

Funny thing is, other than locomotives (obviously), boxcars are my favorite. I would love to convert an old boxcar into a train room......dream come true!!


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## IlliniViking

The layout is looking great, love the video.


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## Kloudbuster

Wow. just saw the video, beautiful work

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## Overkast

Thank you 

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## Overkast

Well it's been a really busy 6+ weeks at work so I haven't had much time to work on the NEMR lately... only dribs and drabs occasionally, making small steps of progress. Life is just really busy lately between work projects and family, etc.

The entire river valley is coming along well and I finally finished constructing the long curved deck girder bridge tonight. Next I spray paint it green and weather w/ some rust.

Also:
-I finished South Station and platform structure, including parking lines for the lot
-I'm getting the hang of ballasting
-I had to redo all my railroad crossings because the styrene plates (roads) were protruding too high above the rails

I made another video to show my latest progress... it's easier than posting a ton of pictures 






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## Magic

You didn't have much to say did you?

Things are really looking super.
That river scene is looking better with each post, love it.

Magic


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## Overkast

Thanks Magic. Yeah, I didn't feel much like speaking - It was late and I was tired... making a video of the layout progress was a last-minute decision right before I went to bed.


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## Gramps

I couldn't see the video, I just got a black box. The crazy thing is that I saw your previous video but when I went back to see it again all I got was a black box. :dunno: 

I'm blaming the Russians.


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## Overkast

That's strange Gramps. I'll try pasting the links to the videos here and if you're interested you can just copy and paste them in your browser.

First video: 




Last night's video: 




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## VegasN

Looks absolutely amazing!


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## Overkast

Thanks buddy! 

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## Gramps

It looks absolutely great!:thumbsup:

I still got the two black boxes in your second post but because the Forum generates an email if someone replies on a thread that I posted on, I was able to see the videos in the email. I seem to be getting black boxes on any videos.


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## jlc41

Looking really good.


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## Shadow001

looks great, makes me want to get back to work on mine.


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## VegasN

Shadow001 said:


> looks great, makes me want to get back to work on mine.


Overkast's work seems to have that inspiring effect......


----------



## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Overkast's work seems to have that inspiring effect......


Dang, thanks guys! 

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## VegasN

It's true though. Your layout was kind of the catalyst that made me pull the trigger and redo mine..........again.........but, right this time.


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## Overkast

I'm humbled to have inspired you so much that you would decide to redo your whole layout Vegas. I appreciate your compliments, and it's a blessing to have a forum with great people like you to share experiences with.

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## VegasN

Humility is an admiral trait, but your work is awesome! So, in the words of the immortal Pink Floyd; Shine on, you crazy diamond!


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## 89Suburban

VegasN said:


> Looks absolutely amazing!


I agree 100%!!


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## CTValleyRR

VegasN said:


> Humility is an admiral trait...


I have known many admirals in my day, and very few of them displayed any humility.

It is, however, an admirable trait. You're're doing awesome work! I look forward to the next update!!


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## tjcruiser

Overkast -- Just seeing this thread and your layout development for the first time. Impressive work, throughout! Fine attention to detail / use in the design, and very meticulous execution with the construction. Thanks for sharing. I will surely check back in!

TJ


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## VegasN

CTValleyRR said:


> I have known many admirals in my day, and very few of them displayed any humility.
> 
> It is, however, an admirable trait. *You're're* doing awesome work! I look forward to the next update!!


I mean, since we are on grammar patrol....:laugh:


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## Overkast

Thanks all for your kind words. And TJ, thanks for taking the time to read my thread and comment! Welcome and glad to have you following.

Today's progress is that I just finished sanding the curved deck girder bridge and gave it a first coat of green spray paint. Will check when it's dry tomorrow to see of I can clear coat it. Then on to rusting / weathering it.

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## CTValleyRR

VegasN said:


> I mean, since we are on grammar patrol....:laugh:


That would be a typo, or more properly an autocorrect failure, rather than a grammar problem. Nice try, though.


----------



## VegasN

CTValleyRR said:


> That would be a typo, or more properly an autocorrect failure, rather than a grammar problem. Nice try, though.


Don't get booty hurt in someone else's thread dude......


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## Lemonhawk

I remember way back when talking to Overkast about the bridges he was building. While I knew a little about building real bridges, it didn't take long before I realized that you knew how really model things. You have a really great looking layout and I can only hope my eventual layout approaches yours. I'll be asking for a lot of help!


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## VegasN

Ditto!


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## Overkast

Lemonhawk said:


> I remember way back when talking to Overkast about the bridges he was building. While I knew a little about building real bridges, it didn't take long before I realized that you knew how really model things. You have a really great looking layout and I can only hope my eventual layout approaches yours. I'll be asking for a lot of help!


Thanks so much Lemonhawk! I appreciate that. I must say that I never knew I had it in me, but I got so much inspiration along the way from seeing what others had achieved on their layouts. This has been quite an adventure of research / exploration / discovery and trial & error, and an endless amount of fun along the way.

I am more than happy to help you any time you need!


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## Overkast

No New England town scene is complete without a rusty green deck plate girder bridge 


































Here's a video I made to show my technique on creating and weathering the bridge as well (and yes Magic, I'm talking in this one!):





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## Magic

Nice hearing from you Overkast.  

That bridge came out very nice indeed. 
Great workmanship there getting the curves just right.
Detailing top notch as well.

Magic


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## jlc41

What Magic said +10. Sometimes less is more, 3 colors, fantastic work.


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## Gramps

Great job, I'm curious if there is a real bridge that's based on.:appl:


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## Overkast

Thanks all 



Gramps said:


> Great job, I'm curious if there is a real bridge that's based on.:appl:


Gramps, there's not really a green deck plate girder bridge that I'm aware of in New England, but lots of green bridges in general (whether it be road or truss rail bridges, etc.). The green color makes me think of / feel like Vermont, which has been the scenic theme inspiration in the back of my mind the whole time while building this layout.

To be honest, the old deck plate girder bridge in Ann Arbor was the true inspiration to my deck plate girder bridge builds.


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## VegasN

Wow......that bridge is just plain sic!!! Very well done indeed!! Bridges like that look very midwesternish to me. We just don't have bridges here like that. The closest thing we have here is a bridge that spans our Interstate 15. It is shaped like this one, but is all concrete, like an overpass highway bridge.

When I go to do my bridges, I will need to do some research on bridges that we just don't have here.

Maybe, when this cold is gone, I'll go out and take some pics of the railroad situation in Southern Nevada. After seeing what is (or more appropriately, what isn't) around here, you'll be surprised that I even KNOW what a train is......


----------



## Overkast

VegasN said:


> Wow......that bridge is just plain sic!!! Very well done indeed!! Bridges like that look very midwesternish to me. We just don't have bridges here like that. The closest thing we have here is a bridge that spans our Interstate 15. It is shaped like this one, but is all concrete, like an overpass highway bridge.
> 
> When I go to do my bridges, I will need to do some research on bridges that we just don't have here.
> 
> Maybe, when this cold is gone, I'll go out and take some pics of the railroad situation in Southern Nevada. After seeing what is (or more appropriately, what isn't) around here, you'll be surprised that I even KNOW what a train is......


Thanks Vegas. I'd love to see pics of the bridge that goes over I-15. There's something unexplainably awesome about a train when it crosses a bridge...

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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> Thanks Vegas. I'd love to see pics of the bridge that goes over I-15. There's something unexplainably awesome about a train when it crosses a bridge...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I agree 100%!!! Love trains, love bridges. The two together??


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## Overkast

A happy father's day gift to myself... with the recent completion of the green deck plate girder bridge I was able to hook up all the track and get the 3rd Mainline running on the upper level. Finally, I got 3 trains going at once! 






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## Magic

Looks great, you're bridge work is superb.
Trains look so cool on them.
Always nice to get all the trains running.

Magic


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## VegasN

I'm grinnin' ear to ear!!


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## jlc41

Very nice watching 3 trains on your layout, which is fantastic. Thanks for posting.


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## Mark VerMurlen

Looks very nice, Overkast. Superb job on the scenery, bridges, mountains, everything! I also really like the weathering you've done on the 2 box cars. That's something that I want to try soon on my layout.

Mark


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## Overkast

Thanks all! And Mark, I wish I could take credit for the weathering of those boxcars but I bought them that way. However train weathering is definitely in my future plans, eventually...

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## Lemonhawk

That green bridge look real! I like that green, it really shows off the rust!


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## Overkast

Well it's been an incredibly busy summer so far with kids' activities and other stuff, but I've managed to continue making a little progress here and there. I finally got enough ground cover done that I wanted to start experimenting with trees.

My wife bought me a few pre-made tree sets from Amazon, but boy were they junk. Bad molds, loose foliage, fake looking, etc...









So I decided to give one of the Woodland Scenics tree kits a try. Got a good deal on 36 trees that I have to bend all the armitures myself and then add foliage. The armitures are decent but they supply clump foliage with the kit. After some trial building I found clump foliage difficult to work with, at least for small N Scale trees, so I built one with coarse turf and it was much better. So this will be the technique I use for the rest of the trees. 








I'll still probably use a few of the pine trees from the sets my wife gave me... there's a couple that look okay.

Here's all the tree armitures painted. I did some as light birch color and others more gray like oaks, etc. (Hard to see over the newspaper, I know)









I'm also going to use the "puff ball" technique for making tree tops to stick to the hillsides, to help reduce the amount of tree kits I need to buy. I'm using a poly fiber that I soak in a dark paint wash and will coat them with various coarse turf colors to look like trees (update on those soon).

















And finally, I've also finished base coat painting all the rock face on the layout and starting to landscape the quarry area.

















One last thing... my friend asked me to stage a train over my green deck plate girder bridge, so I thought I'd share the shots:









































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## VegasN

That just looks amazing! But......aaahhhhhh!!!! I'm afraid of heights!
But, loving the shots of the train on the bridge. And the mountain in the quarry......awesome!


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## Overkast

VegasN said:


> That just looks amazing! But......aaahhhhhh!!!! I'm afraid of heights!
> But, loving the shots of the train on the bridge. And the mountain in the quarry......awesome!


Thanks buddy! And I'm sorry you're afraid of heights... but when you're a hobo riding the rails, you get what you get and you don't get upset!!! 

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## VegasN

Overkast said:


> Thanks buddy! And I'm sorry you're afraid of heights... but when you're a hobo riding the rails, you get what you get and you don't get upset!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


:laugh: Yup, that's what I used to tell my kids..."You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit" *unless you are paying for it*


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## Mark VerMurlen

Overkast, I really enjoy and look forward to seeing your progress posts. Great looking layout you have going and getting better and better.

Mark


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## Gramps

Looks great, glad to see you posting again.:thumbsup:


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## Kloudbuster

I mean wow, awesome work

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## Overkast

Thanks Kloudbuster... appreciate it. 

Gramps... it's good to be posting again! Schedule gets hectic sometimes  

Mark, you know I equally enjoy seeing your progress... Thanks for that. I get a little inspiration from you, and everyone else here, that keeps my creative fuel flowing! 

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## Overkast

Hi everyone, hope you've all been well. Sorry I've been MIA for a year, but I've been very busy and gone through some ups and downs... its a long story and I won't bore you with those details.

During my absence, I've still been keeping up on the NEMR with a pretty good pace and have achieved quite a bit of progress since last July. After talking with Magic (thanks for reaching out buddy), I decided to make a video to show the layout and progress, since it's much easier than writing a novel. lol

I'll try not to be too much of a stranger, but no guarantees. Life has been really busy and I haven't really touched the layout in weeks lately... I need to focus on some other things that need taking care of right now, but I hope to get back at it sooner than later.

Hope you all are well, and I miss chatting with quite a few of you.


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## jlc41

Overkast, nice progress and inciteful planning. Keep going.


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## Gramps

Welcome back, it's good to hear from you. Hope you had more ups than downs. The layout looks really great. :appl:


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## Lemonhawk

Those rusted I beams look so real!


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## bluenavigator

Welcome back! Glad to see your layout, coming to life! Great progress! Same here, I hadn't check this forum but I am coming back, answering some posts time to time. My layout is still same as few months ago. I am going back there and work bit by bit, too. Everyone have their lives to go on with. 

Again, glad to see you back on the forum once again!!


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## Magic

Great to see you back Overcast. :smilie_daumenpos:

Thanks for the video update, came out very nice. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Gives a good overview of the RR.

Looks like you've made some good progress and it's first rate as usual.

That curved bridge ls so impressive with trains running over it, good job. :appl:

Keep us posted and keep up the good work.

Magic


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## Overkast

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome back and compliments, I really appreciate that! 

I will do my best to have more regular communications going forward, in between some of the life craziness!!!

Happy Friday all!


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## Mark VerMurlen

Looks great! I've missed seeing your updates, so good to see you back. Progress on my own layout has slowed, so I haven't been posting much recently either.

Mark


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## VegasN

I don't see the video....*fights back tears*


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## Overkast

Back at it... Day 2









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## jackpresley

You've done some really incredible work and very well thought out. Anxiously awaiting the next update.


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## Overkast

jackpresley said:


> You've done some really incredible work and very well thought out. Anxiously awaiting the next update.


Thanks for the compliments Jack Presley! I appreciate that, and thanks for your interest in seeing my layout progress. Since you asked, I made an update for you today


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## 89Suburban

Very nice man!


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## Magic

Looking good Overcast, good to see you making progress.
You gave me a good idea for my dirt road, thanks.
Also thanks for the update.

Magic


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## jackpresley

Watched the update on the big screen and it was awesome. Thank you for sharing!


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## Overkast

Thanks guys, appreciate it. Hope all is well with you and your layouts!

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## CV-62

Great thread. I learned a lot. Kudos, mate.


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## Overkast

Thank you sir!

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## Gramps

Great looking video and I like the factory siding, thanks for the update. Good hearing from you.


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## Overkast

Thank you Gramps! Nice to hear from you as well.


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## Overkast

Quick update... officially finished all the structure kits for my layout last night. Added the fire escape system to the furniture factory and then also painted and added all the piping and mixing equipment at the top of the cement silos. Despite me not really liking the cement factory kit (due to how the silo and shack roof molds were designed to be glued together) I think overall it still turned out well and looks decent.









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## jlc41

Nice work like the details, coming along nicely. As usual well done thanks for sharing.


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## Overkast

Thanks jlc


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## Magic

Looking good Overkast.
The silos look fine to me., sure are* big*.

Magic


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## bluenavigator

Looking good. Just one question regarding the fire escape, is that part of the structure kit? Or just add-on? Because if it is to be prototypical, I do not know if they would build the staircase like that, because people going on left when exit the door, wouldn't they run into the staircase when it being down? Just a thought...

Also, shouldn't there be handrail on the staircase?

However, it is your layout, your rules!


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## Overkast

Thanks guys. Magic, I agree the silos are very tall indeed. It looks kind of odd sticking out like a sore thumb in the corner but I'm committed to it at this point! Lol.

And Bluenav... you are quite the eagle eye about the missing railing on the staircase. That is literally the last piece I need to add, because the staircase paint was still drying when I took the pic! And I also had the same thoughts and concerns about the fire escape, but it did come with the kit and those were the directions. It's a silly design in that regard, so it's also part of the reason I left the fire escape steps in the raised position vs. extending down.

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## Overkast

Working on some fun things now that my structure kits are out of the way. Finally got to make the elevator shaft for the raised platform station I had been dreaming about, and also added the butterfly rooftops. Then I made a little propane tank out of a wood dowel and an extra square piece from a kit. Then I painted rapids on the village river, and now I am starting to scratch-build a canoe for 2 guys who will be fishing in the detention pond next to one of the stations.









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## Overkast

Working on a fun little (but challenging) project building a chain link fence with barbed wire, from scratch. I'm using the Luke Towan method, but with some different materials because he models in HO and I'm in N scale. For example, instead of Tulle I used Chiffon fabric because it has a finer mesh pattern. Also, instead of using 32 gauge jewelry wire for the the barbed wire I had to use something finer, so I took the casing off some of my threaded 18 gauge feeder wire and used the fine threads for the barb.

The gates actually swing open because I mounted them to a brass tube that slides over piano wire that's sticking upright out of the ground.

I plan on fencing in most of my rail yard like this.










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## cole226

*No slacking on the details*

Dang nice looking work man. :smilie_daumenpos::smilie_daumenpos: All of it. :thumbsup:


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## Overkast

Thank you cole!


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## Magic

The fence looks great, that's one of the things holding up work on my RR.
I've got one section I'm working on now. Not going well at all.

One question, what material did you use for the post and cross braces?

Magic


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## Overkast

Thanks Magic! Sorry to hear yours is not going well... what seems to be the issues? It took me 3 attempts myself to get it right, as I first tried to use piano wire (I liked the toughness of it) but that wire would not take the solder. Then I tried super glue and the joints just weren't strong enough. So finally I tried the steel wire I use to make my pine trees, and voila! The solder takes and it turned out great.

I used 20 gauge galvanized steel wire (pic below).










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## jlc41

Overkast, outstanding work as usual. Nice infoe on fence.

Joe


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## bluenavigator

Follow this video?


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## Overkast

jlc41 said:


> Overkast, outstanding work as usual. Nice infoe on fence.
> 
> Joe


Thank you Joe! Much appreciated.



bluenavigator said:


> Follow this video?


Yep, that's the one Bluenav. It's a great technique.


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## Gramps

Very nice.:thumbsup:


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## bluenavigator

Overkast said:


> Yep, that's the one Bluenav. It's a great technique.


Indeed, it is! I watched it twice or so. Still enjoy viewing that Vlog.


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## Magic

Overcast I think I finally found some suitable wire, just having trouble keeping it straight.
Might try the stuff you're using.

That video Bluenavigator posted will be a big help, I see what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks very much guys.
Magic


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## Overkast

Thanks Gramps!

Bluenav - I agree, Luke Towan has some really excellent modeling skills, and his productions are put together really well. I enjoy watching his films.

Magic - that's great to hear man! I'm so happy this may be the solution you've needed to finish your fencing. When you say you're having difficulty keeping it straight, are you referring to the wire bending or keeping the wire pieces in place while you solder them? Either way, the video should resolve both issues for you.


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## Magic

I was having trouble keeping it straight and keeping it in place but the video 
shows me the way to do both.

Thanks again for the help.
Magic


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## Mark VerMurlen

Overcast, I saw you post on another thread today. What’s been happening over the last year or so? Any updates on your railroad build?


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## Overkast

Hey Mark! So nice to hear from you, and hope all has been well. Sadly, I have not spent much time working on the layout in the last year or so. I've gone through some very busy times both in my career and at home and it's been hard to find the motivation to keep at it. I did some work on it back in the Winter but it's mostly just making trees to cover the mountains, which gets monotonous, tedious, and boring after a while (and I have a LOT of trees to make)  Also, my son is getting older now and spends a lot of time in the basement (where my train set is) playing video games online with friends, so he's often noisy and thus the basement is no longer a sanctuary of peace and quiet.

How about you? How has progress on your set been going? Are you still working on things or mostly finished and now running trains a lot?


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## Mark VerMurlen

I also took some time away from my railroad for a while. I got involved again with it around the start of 2020. Recent projects include making a background for my canyon scene and building, wiring, and programming working signals. I also did some weathering of my freight cars. My railroad is mostly done. I’m currently thinking/planning how to implement automated coupling/uncoupling of cars on my industrial spurs. I’ve bought the magnets and reed switches to implement it. Just need to figure out placement and the moves that are necessary to make it semi-realistic and do the installation and programming.


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## Magic

Good to see you check in once in a while Overkast.  
I'm not getting much done building wise either.
A little layout burnout setting in, been running trains but 
layout work has been very slow.

Keep at it when you can and best of luck to you 

Magic


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## Gramps

Glad to hear from you Overkast, I enjoyed following your build thread.


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## Overkast

Hey Gramps and Magic! Nice to hear from you and thanks Gramps. I hope to get back to routine layout work again some day soon and resume this build thread.

Mark I just went to find your layout thread and took a look at your video showing progress on your layout... All the electronic signals / automation you have going on is impressive and also a dream of mine for my layout. Really nice work!!!!

You mentioned wanting to start working with magnet uncoupling next. I know you’re in HO scale and I’m in N scale, but I tried experimenting with rare earth magnets for uncoupling and the magnets were too strong for any train cars that had metal wheels on them, and thus it would derail the cars. Maybe HO won’t have that much of an issue since it’s a larger scale with more space between the wheels and coupling areas but something to think about. If all your rolling stock wheels are plastic then you’ll be fine.


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