# Where to start



## slayers (Nov 26, 2013)

I have been looking to get started with trains again.

I sold off all my HO stuff years ago and think I want to head in the N scale.

Would I be better off buying a set of getting it piece by piece?

If I go piece by piece what is good as far as track and the other stuff?


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

All depends - what kind of layout are you planning?


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

I started piece by piece, and I'm happy I did. 

I simply found a track plan, added my own ideas to it, and now I'm planning on adding an extension board with a yard.

I used code 80 Atlas snap track, it's cheap and works well. Many people prefer code 55 snap track, as it looks more prototypical when viewed up close or in photos. I honestly don't see a problem with code 80. I would use it again if I started a new layout, but that's just me.

There's a lot of track to choose from, Kato. Atlas, Bachmann, Peco (which make great turnouts), and the list goes on a bit.


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## slayers (Nov 26, 2013)

sstlaure said:


> All depends - what kind of layout are you planning?


Not sure of a layout yet I am trying to figure out where to get my start I have to figure out a the area that I will build but it will not be that big.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

Typically the sets that come with EZ track (or similar) come with rolling stock that isn't the greatest. (Not horrible, but not great.) I prefer to buy my rolling stock a piece at a time (when they go on sale).

Personally for anything outside of a simple oval track I think you're better off buying it piece by piece (although my experience is in HO and I know that Kato makes some really nice N-scale stuff.)


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

slayers said:


> Not sure of a layout yet I am trying to figure out where to get my start I have to figure out a the area that I will build but it will not be that big.


You don't need a lot of room for N scale. My board is 3.4 by 5, small, but effective. My extension will be 3.5 by 11, so the new board will have some nice yard operations. If you have a 10 x 12 spare room, your set. If not a 3 x 5 layout is more than enough to keep you busy for quite some time, and will be fun to run.

Original layout









With extension


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## slayers (Nov 26, 2013)

Thank you all for the help. I am going to buy what I can off ebay and since what I can come up with.

When buying off of ebay is there anyone I should stay away from?

When I had my HO scale I had a mixture of lifelike and bachmann.


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

slayers said:


> Thank you all for the help. I am going to buy what I can off ebay and since what I can come up with.
> 
> When buying off of ebay is there anyone I should stay away from?
> 
> When I had my HO scale I had a mixture of lifelike and bachmann.


Be careful of sellers that don't take paypal, be sure to read entire listing before bidding. I just had an issue with "respicefinem". I found that he's not a good person when it comes to customer relations. He tried holding me hostage for positive feedback, but eBay took care of the issue.

Try Fifer Hobby, great people and shipping is very fast: http://fiferhobby.com/

He's a member of this forum.


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## ckblum (Nov 28, 2013)

Try to check out some hobby shows and swap meets. Usually you can find a way to test locomotives before buying. I started with a Life-Like set, the GP-38 that came with it is the worst running loco I have now out of 8. And it was the only one bought new, the other seem are from shows and deals. Spent about $200 so far and I have 7 good running locks and about 20 pieces of rolling stock.


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

I agree that Mike Fifer (fifer hobbies) is a great person to buy from. 

My only suggestion is that the track plan has really no rhyme or reason, prototypically. It's ok for just "watching trains go around", but usually layouts like that get stale after a while, when you decide you want more prototypical operations. You have a layout that has a large engine facility, a huge yard, a secondary yard, but no customers or link to an outside railroad. If that is ok with you, go for it, but there are plenty of helpful guys on here, some great track plan books, and youtube videos that can help you create exactly what you want. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpyGz3bnC4


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

I think I also counted 42 switches. 42 x $15. per switch (rough estimate) is $630. just for the switches alone. So you're looking at over $1,000. in track, easily. For 1/3rd of that you can create a much more easy to run, prototypical layout, that would last you years more of enjoyment, and less time building. Just my opinion.


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## slayers (Nov 26, 2013)

DJsTrains said:


> I agree that Mike Fifer (fifer hobbies) is a great person to buy from.
> 
> My only suggestion is that the track plan has really no rhyme or reason, prototypically. It's ok for just "watching trains go around", but usually layouts like that get stale after a while, when you decide you want more prototypical operations. You have a layout that has a large engine facility, a huge yard, a secondary yard, but no customers or link to an outside railroad. If that is ok with you, go for it, but there are plenty of helpful guys on here, some great track plan books, and youtube videos that can help you create exactly what you want. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpyGz3bnC4


I am not sure of the layout yet.

I am also not sure if I am going to do steam or diesel.

What I have been looking at is living just outside of Detroit I get to see a lot of the car haulers running around there are also a few yards where trailers get loaded that might be what I am looking to do at the end of the day still want to look at other layouts first.


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

DJsTrains said:


> I agree that Mike Fifer (fifer hobbies) is a great person to buy from.
> 
> My only suggestion is that the track plan has really no rhyme or reason, prototypically. It's ok for just "watching trains go around", but usually layouts like that get stale after a while, when you decide you want more prototypical operations. You have a layout that has a large engine facility, a huge yard, a secondary yard, but no customers or link to an outside railroad. If that is ok with you, go for it, but there are plenty of helpful guys on here, some great track plan books, and youtube videos that can help you create exactly what you want. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpyGz3bnC4


If your referring to my track plan, let me start by saying rule #1 always applies. Second the track plan has plenty of rhyme and reason and has a huge flat yard an area for industry and a side yard for a distribution center. The first board has a working mine, a fill center on the small yard a town layout in the small loop, and plenty of operations to be added. I don't know where your coming from or what your looking at, IMO you spoke before you used your imagination, your looking at tracks with nothing added in-between. My first board is done and has more operation in a 3 x 5 space than most layouts I have seen, your immediately looking at a small working yard and a mining spur right up front in your face. the extension is basically all yard operations, a distribution center and a nice area for manufacturing, plus to the left is spill over area for extending the town.


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

DJsTrains said:


> I think I also counted 42 switches. 42 x $15. per switch (rough estimate) is $630. just for the switches alone. So you're looking at over $1,000. in track, easily. For 1/3rd of that you can create a much more easy to run, prototypical layout, that would last you years more of enjoyment, and less time building. Just my opinion.


I have everything I need for my extension board. BTW, what the hell is your problem? If you cant afford trains don't play with them, and honestly I don't think you have a clue, or know what your talking about. Show us your layout, mines up for view.

I'm giving the OP advise and all your giving is a negative attitude.

I didn't tell the OP to build my layout, I showed him what could be done with a little effort and time. 

Prototypical? I guess flat yards aren't prototypical, and mining spurs don't exist, and populated areas don't need distribution centers, and oh yea RULE #1!!

BTW if your such an expert on railroads then you should recognize layout 1, which I'm certain you don't and that really place you low on my credibility chart.


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

Spiral city:

I didn't see when i commented that the track plan wasn't his. I thought that he designed it, and was looking for feedback. I am literally laughing, because you took it so personal. I have never seen someone get so riled up about their track plan. As for your last comment about if I can't afford trains, don't play with them. I have been an engineer for csx for 15 years, so I do play with the 1:1 scale quite well, and they pay me very well. As for negative, uhm, I actually gave a lot of positive suggestions on where he can go for advice and help. You just took personal offense because I didn't like your loop de loop track plan. Sorry you are so sensitive. Good night.


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

DJsTrains said:


> Spiral city:
> 
> I didn't see when i commented that the track plan wasn't his. I thought that he designed it, and was looking for feedback. I am literally laughing, because you took it so personal. I have never seen someone get so riled up about their track plan. As for your last comment about if I can't afford trains, don't play with them. I have been an engineer for csx for 15 years, so I do play with the 1:1 scale quite well, and they pay me very well. As for negative, uhm, I actually gave a lot of positive suggestions on where he can go for advice and help. You just took personal offense because I didn't like your loop de loop track plan. Sorry you are so sensitive. Good night.


You made comments without looking at the full picture. The yard was designed by a few people with quite a bit of input and thought. You mentioned the money needed, not so on the small board, only the extension yard and it is money I'm spending, no one else. The flat yard needs switches to function, the distribution center needs the small yard to keep traffic off the main line, so more switches. I even have 4 areas that utilize reversing loops for easy management of the flat yard and turn table area which will hold an engine house, a wash area and general maintenance.

The main board is a popular design that had been used in the past. I didn't tell the OP to use this design, I tried to show him what a small space could hold. I created a site for the build: http://spiralcitynpire.weebly.com/index.html 

I wasn't upset, but when a lot of time is spent designing and mulling over what will be ran it does sting when someone fails to look at the big picture and take in what will be placed on the board. What you call a loop du loop has plenty of yard operations, a city, a manufacturing area, plus room for the trains to run, not just operate. the best of both worlds is offered in the layout but your too blind to see this or you just listened to one to many people tell you that pure operations is the only way to go. BTW, I could care less who you work for, you could be God for all it matters and I still think you don't know what your talking about.

And quite honestly I could care less if you liked the layout or not, as stated rule #1 always applies. 

Show us your layout, not a design but one you actually are building, and also try giving some of your own advice not stuff you borrowed from youtube or other sites. Give some hands on knowledge of modeling and designing to help the OP. Anyone could post a link and advise a book or whatever, so what.

Slayers, sorry for the rant and hijacking your thread. that wasn't my intention.

Good luck with your railroad.


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

*my stuff*

uhm, that link is my video. I have over 68 tutorial videos with advice on layout building and how the real railroad works.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

slayers said:


> I am not sure of the layout yet.
> 
> I am also not sure if I am going to do steam or diesel.
> 
> What I have been looking at is living just outside of Detroit I get to see a lot of the car haulers running around there are also a few yards where trailers get loaded that might be what I am looking to do at the end of the day still want to look at other layouts first.


You could do both steam and diesel you know there is a period that they ran together.

Look for deals on Craig's list too along with e bay.
Look around your area as most likely you will have to pick it up.

I started my N with a little layout my oldest sister had. She was moving and didn't have the room for them.
I then got a whole bunch of stuff from my nephew as he was in the same boat moving and didn't have the room anymore.
I traded him 2 older guns for it.
Check it out, I paid around $300 for it in trade. (the guns worth roughly was $300.)
I bought a few locomotives and things after I got these.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=7158

Look for deals...lots....layouts someone is getting rid of.
You can always add on modify to their layouts.
And if you keep an eye out on e bay they do come up, just don't jump on any thing as there will always be another.

Keep an eye out here too, go through the old listings there still might be some for sale.


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

DJsTrains said:


> uhm, that link is my video. I have over 68 tutorial videos with advice on layout building and how the real railroad works.


Great to see you may offer some actual advice. Much better than useless negative comments that help no one. It's not all about you and what you think is right, it's about answering questions the OP asked and offering sound advice, be it operations or simply running trains.

I'll refrain from any further comments.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

I hope it was all right what I posted even though it was just sort of worthless info too, I guess?:smokin:


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

spiralcity said:


> Great to see you may offer some actual advice. Much better than useless negative comments that help no one. It's not all about you and what you think is right, it's about answering questions the OP asked and offering sound advice, be it operations or simply running trains.
> 
> I'll refrain from any further comments.


Don't refrain from further comments, just don't take this so seriously.

I don't think any harm was meant by DJ and it can be hard to truly see a layout by just the track plan.

It seems to me he just confused you and slayer on accident.

It's a hobby.....


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

sstlaure said:


> Don't refrain from further comments, just don't take this so seriously.
> 
> I don't think any harm was meant by DJ and it can be hard to truly see a layout by just the track plan.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is a forum. 
Peace for the holidays? :smokin:


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

spiralcity said:


> Great to see you may offer some actual advice. Much better than useless negative comments that help no one. It's not all about you and what you think is right, it's about answering questions the OP asked and offering sound advice, be it operations or simply running trains.
> 
> I'll refrain from any further comments.


You know now that I reread it all it was kind of an offensive remark.

Spiral,I think your old layout is very functional and with the new addition you have planned all the more. :smilie_daumenpos:
It is more then a just loop de loop.
Looks like a fun layout. 

Just don't listen to him, how the hell can you make a real layout on a table anyway? 
Now that I think of it I have asked him questions before and got totally ignored.
I stopped asking.
Probably didn't answer me because I drive a truck and not a train. :smokin:

I did watch his posted video and saw no layout?
Now I'll refrain from any further comments too, it is not worth arguing about.
I just figured I would let you know my 2 cents about your layout. :smokin::thumbsup:


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

Big Ed...I don't think you have the right guy. I am looking at folder private messages=0, unread messages 0. total messages - 0
and as for me not answering, why wouldn't I? I spend hours helping people design layouts, and emailing track maps of the prototype to help them. I have 68 videos with many videos of my layouts, past and present. You two are comical trolls. I tried to save the original poster $ by telling him that his track plan (didn't see that it was spiral's) would probably end up being unhappy with it later on. So many people (including myself) have made layouts, only to tear them apart because as they learn about protypical operations, they see things they want to change. My philosophy is keep it simple. Start small and grow from there. In fact that video about yards was an example of how railroad's yards usually equal the amount of industries serviced. I have a video about turntables and how they are rarely used anymore. My thing is helping people save money in this expensive hobby, helping people make what they truly want by teaching scratch building, rather than settle for whats in the walthers catalogue, and explaining the way real railroads operate. Growing up, I thought all sidings were double ended and a train had to sit and wait for each car to be loaded, lol. I had no idea how they operated until I hired on in 1999. So for you two to pounce on me, especially Ed, who made character assumptions about me (100% wrong), is very trollish.


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

Finished section of my layout..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZU1NYV2QlY


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

Turntable video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1jsesA076A


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

DJsTrains said:


> Big Ed...I don't think you have the right guy. I am looking at folder private messages=0, unread messages 0. total messages - 0
> and as for me not answering, why wouldn't I? You two are comical trolls. I tried to save the original poster $ by telling him that his track plan (didn't see that it was spiral's) would probably end up being unhappy with it later on. So for you two to pounce on me, especially Ed, who made character assumptions about me (100% wrong), is very trollish.



Do you ever go back and look at threads that you start?

Well I think you did insult Spirals layout if you think you didn't so be it.
Unanswered question here,
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showpost.php?p=203350&postcount=4

Sorry, I should have said one instead of plural. I never tried asking any more after that one. 

You don't have to bother answering it, matter of fact you never commented back except to my cousin joed2323 in your first thread you posted here.

Maybe because we said we were foamers? Even though I never sat around waiting for trains to come by to take pictures of, I capture my pictures on the roll. 

Point is you did insult Spirals layout even if it was unintentional, go back and read your comments. 
Trolls? Now that is not insulting either huh? 

No more from me now before I do really insult you, that is it on this subject. :smokin:


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

You can make a realistic layout in a small space using scenic dividers, so the train maybe departs the yard on one side, but then appears in a completely different location where the industries are. Space isn't an issue in N scale, and this video shows how to divide your layout. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-YN1U1AI98


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## slayers (Nov 26, 2013)

Thank you everyone for the information.

1 last question would I be ok if I started using the kato unitrack and replacing as needed or could I even stay using that track?


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

Yes. Kato, atlas code 80, and tomix all use same rail height. I use all three in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CkJu1faKpU


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

sstlaure said:


> Don't refrain from further comments, just don't take this so seriously.
> 
> I don't think any harm was meant by DJ and it can be hard to truly see a layout by just the track plan.
> 
> ...


Yes, this is true, and that was the exact point I was making. I like running and operating. I like when one train can run the board while you operate others, it looks good and it all doesn't have to be operations. Your comments about this being a hobby are true, but it's a hobby we take pride in and spend exuberant amounts of money on, not to mention the time spent creating a railroad. It's a lot of hard work. When someone decides to chime in with what they perceive should be the only way to approach the hobby, it become frustrating, and quite irritating. DJ knows that RULE #1 always applies, he's been at the hobby long enough, yet he decided to take another route.

As far as DJ's comments, he knew what he was saying, I'm sure he's not stupid, just arrogant.


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## DJsTrains (Mar 14, 2013)

spiralcity: You just can't let things go. You're butthurt because I didn't like your trackplan, (which I had already explained before). Keep attacking me. I think you will really like my next video about track planning.


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## spiralcity (Sep 21, 2013)

DJsTrains said:


> spiralcity: You just can't let things go. You're butthurt because I didn't like your trackplan, (which I had already explained before). Keep attacking me. I think you will really like my next video about track planning.


Seems to me your on the same page! Look you commented again, why didn't you let it go? You did all the attacking, I already let it go. Post any videos you want, your the one looking like a fool and from your last post I question your age, you sound like a child. How old are you, 2?

Hopefully the moderators will step in and see you for what you are. People revert to name calling when they have nothing intelligent to offer to the conversation. If you don't like intelligent rebuttals to your less than friendly remarks, you may want to think before you speak.

Don't drop me anymore PM's.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

It's your railroad. (Everyone) It's right if it's what that person wants and who cares how others like it.

C'mon guys....


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## ckblum (Nov 28, 2013)

What a gong show. Every other thread around here gets stale after a day, this forum is really showing how to attract new members and get people interested in the hobby.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ckblum said:


> What a gong show. Every other thread around here gets stale after a day, this forum is really showing how to attract new members and get people interested in the hobby.


You're too young to remember the gong show.
Yep, everyone has to add their 2 cents......like you did. 

I guess you didn't read too many threads yet?

Every other thread? 
Hey sometimes "stuff" happens and people have to vent.
It might happen to you one day if you work hard on a layout and someone says it sucks.
Would you just sit there and just not say anything?

But to say "every other' thread, you are wrong there young man. :smokin:


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## ckblum (Nov 28, 2013)

It's a public forum. I put my 2 cents in on the first page.

All I mean by stale is that most threads get a reply or two days or weeks later, sometimes never at all. So when new members like me come looking for info and discussion there isn't much to see, other than someone with hurt feelings unable to get over little comments on a public forum.

I just figured this hobby and forum would be a place to get away from regular day stresses, I guess some people just can't let that kinda stuff go and it's not enjoyable for anyone. No one wants to come looking for info just to see one snide come back after another.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ckblum said:


> It's a public forum. I put my 2 cents in on the first page.
> 
> All I mean by stale is that most threads get a reply or two days or weeks later, sometimes never at all. So when new members like me come looking for info and discussion there isn't much to see, other than someone with hurt feelings unable to get over little comments on a public forum.
> 
> I just figured this hobby and forum would be a place to get away from regular day stresses, I guess some people just can't let that kinda stuff go and it's not enjoyable for anyone. No one wants to come looking for info just to see one snide come back after another.


Most questions get answered the same hour, some don't get answered I don't know why that is. Take DCC I don't know much about it but we must get the same question on it everyday and it has been discussed in great detail so if I have the time I will go and search for the thread and throw the link in. Is that wrong?
I don't like to see a post sit there so I try to help even if I don't know the answer.
During the week I am limited for time.

If you stick around you will see. A lot of new folks commented on our site about how nice members are here trying to help. 
Because when they asked the same question on other sites they were laughed at or totally ignored after that because the "pro's" there didn't want to waste the time on newbies. There is one site that even tells them to join up here to get the answers they need. They told them that they don't have the time to help a newbie.

I will tell someone to use the search feature as a lot of questions have been answered already in great detail, so by me suggesting them to try to use the search feature is that wrong? A lot of threads have tags, I have been trying to add tags, one word tags so that the search will bring them up. The search can answer a lot of questions, but I always try to add that don't be afraid to ask if someone can't find something or needs to know better.

What scale are you doing? Do you read only one forum? Have you asked something and have not gotten an answer yet? Can you answer some of the posts you see unanswered? By all means do please.

I read all the different forums, or try to. And I am learning from doing so.
Some forums like G scale don't have too many active G men, same goes for Z scale, Standard gauge questions might sit a little too.
But N,HO,S,and O I seen answers in minutes.
You need to read a little more, some threads do go astray but most of the time people do get help.

And for this thread here I do think Spiral had a right to say something.
I think his layout looks like a fun layout to PLAY with.
They are toys, DJstrains seems to think you ought to build a real RR on plywood.
I think he made a mistake by saying what he did about someones layout. Even though he thought is was the OP's new plans.

Heck, if I made the same mistake I would have apologized, instead of the reply he gave which just made matters worse. :smokin:


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## ckblum (Nov 28, 2013)

Sounds fair. I apologize for rocking the boat more. I don't hold anything against anyone here, I just wanted to see more relevant posts instead of a back and forth situation with nothing positive seeming to come from it.

I do like DJ's videos, and I see both Spiral and you posting useful information. I'd just like to see more of that than the arguing. Cause when I get a subscribed thread notice saying there's a new post and I come and see three more pages of arguments and nothing much new in the board it just kinda feels like a waste of time coming and reading through it.

I'm a pretty big newb too, I am clueless about operations and such, I have a simple twice around loop on a 2.5'x3' board with mountains and a tiny town. So I'm not one to comment or criticize anyone else's layout haha.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I don't subscribe to threads. I just click the "Today's posts" in the quick links section. I'm on about daily and there are usually 50 or so threads to look at with updates.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

ckblum said:


> Sounds fair. I apologize for rocking the boat more. I don't hold anything against anyone here, I just wanted to see more relevant posts instead of a back and forth situation with nothing positive seeming to come from it.
> 
> I do like DJ's videos, and I see both Spiral and you posting useful information. I'd just like to see more of that than the arguing. Cause when I get a subscribed thread notice saying there's a new post and I come and see three more pages of arguments and nothing much new in the board it just kinda feels like a waste of time coming and reading through it.
> 
> I'm a pretty big newb too, I am clueless about operations and such, I have a simple twice around loop on a 2.5'x3' board with mountains and a tiny town. So I'm not one to comment or criticize anyone else's layout haha.


No Problem you had something to say and you said it.
Enough said about this threads little spat, everyone has said what they wanted to say. It is over. I think. 
But stick around you will see that most don't go sour.

And do what SS said, in your User CP you can turn off the subscriptions so you don't get e mails. Then just log in and click today's posts. 
Even if you have not logged on for a week you will get every post showing that has been added to since your last log on.
I got tired of getting so many e mails, many others have too and just turned it off.

Go to user CP
click edit options
Then in the Default Thread Subscription Mode box, from the drop down box pick do not subscribe.
After you pick it make sure you scroll down to the bottom and click save changes.

Unless you want all the e mails then just keep it as is. :smokin:


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