# Deciding on Industry to Model



## ke5nnt (Feb 10, 2015)

I am in the planning stage of a new N scale layout in my basement measuring 26' 6" x 10'9". Mostly it is an around-the-room shelf style build with 24" shelf depth throughout most, with some 36" depth sections to accommodate a little more fun.

My big question for myself now is, "what industry (industries) do I model?" I've been considering logging & lumber as the main industry on the layout but I feel as though I know little about how this industry operates in the modern era, as I am modeling the 2000s.

I envision a setup where trees are cut down and loaded on trucks which are then driven to some centralized area for loading onto rail cars, then moved via rail to a saw mill where cut lumber can be loaded onto trucks and train, but I am probably way off the mark with my assumption (you know what they say about assume).

Perhaps the logged trees are trucked right to a nearby saw mill and the rail car trip is skipped for that portion? I'm looking for insight on this one.

Another idea as an alternative or perhaps even in addition to (if the layout can support both) is pulp mill/paper?

So given all of that, I'm basically looking for thoughts on the subject. Thanks.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

*Modern logging railroads*

What logging there still is here in Washington State is mostly in areas not even served by rail anymore. Raw logs are moved by truck. Rail could be used to ship out finished products and deliver bulk chemicals to paper plants. But it's your railroad. Modeling an old-school logging railroad with modern equipment, like diesel switchers instead of Heislers and Shays, might be fun. If you're freelancing a prototype, why not do a job with a railroad that in the real-world is done by trucks? Model locomotives and rolling stock move, and model trucks and trailers don't.


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## RonthePirate (Sep 9, 2015)

Just a suggestion: how about gravel/rock/stone? That I believe is still moved by rail.
And I'm almost positive it would flourish anywhere, including the northwest.


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

I like junk yards. They can be any size, they are busy and its a fun project. Several examples have been in the Forum.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

Well, the first thing to remember is "Your layout, your rules". If you want to do it a certain way, then by all means do so.

If you are trying to simulate an actual railroad, then do what they did. A source like Trains magazine can give you insight into how such things are handled on real railroads.

For my layout, logs are harvested on the mountain and hauled by skidder or crawler tractor down the slopes to a small sawmill operation (a modified WS Rural Sawmill kit). From there, lumber is loaded on flat cars for shipment.

It is important to note that there were no logging operations of any significance in Connecticut by 1956 (the year I model), nor were there any operational steam locomotives. And yet you will find both on my layout.


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

You can model an industry by moving loads in one direction and empties in the other, you don't need to model the producer or the end user, or any of the steps inbetween. Modeling all parts, or just some parts of the process is entirely your choice. If you don't want to model logged forests, sawmills, paper mills or furniture Mfg's, it's OK.


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## ke5nnt (Feb 10, 2015)

Ok great replies and I appreciate them. Ultimately you are right, my railroad, my rules. Something I must try and keep in mind.

Regards


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

It may not be the type of industry you are thinking of, but the auto or vehicle industry is a lot of fun to model. When I was into N gauge I did the auto industry. I had a layout about the size of yours and among other things did it end to end. A port area with steel and materials coming in on ships, as well as stell, and had a port/rial yard for that, an auto plant with railyard for materials and outgoing cars, etc. All of the auto carrier cars and the loading facilities were just very cool.

I ended up in particular liking to model car dealerships at the retail end of the whole industry. All the models cars and all were a lot of fun. 

All that was so much fun that I did a completely separate "industry" for Catapillar bulldozers and such. That too was way fun!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

Just take your time deciding what you want because, believe me you will change your mind many times.


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

Spence said:


> Just take your time deciding what you want because, believe me you will change your mind many times.


Yes, really, really good advice.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

thedoc said:


> You can model an industry by moving loads in one direction and empties in the other, you don't need to model the producer or the end user, or any of the steps inbetween. Modeling all parts, or just some parts of the process is entirely your choice. If you don't want to model logged forests, sawmills, paper mills or furniture Mfg's, it's OK.


Good point, that!

Hidden tracks, or staging, is the ultimate industry. Rather than try to model the entire industry chain, you can model only one part, and bring in raw materials and ship out finished products to "elsewhere", just by using staging as one of the destinations.


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## DonR (Oct 18, 2012)

I have a completely different approach for 'industry'
on my layout. I have a number of small businesses 
that ship and receive things by rail. They include
stock pens, a meat packer, Food distributor, Sand and Gravel
dealer, construction company, railroad loco service
sand tower, Wood products Co. and Home Depot type
business with a lumber yard, Electrical apparatus
business, Power plant. Also, my Less than Carload
freight depot gets a lot of business from various retail
stores.

All of the above make for a lot of switching movements
in addition to those to and from the yards.

Don


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*good advice, and video*



Spence said:


> Just take your time deciding what you want because, believe me you will change your mind many times.


Spence;

Good advice, for new modelers or old. A modeler friend of mine refers to me as "the king of do over" because of my propensity for ripping out and re-doing things on my layout. I liked the "Ten car consist" video, particularly the smoke exhaust from the diesel A-units, but shouldn't the B-units be producing their share?:laugh:
From the trailer park video it looks, fro the three rail track like you are in O-gauge? Great layout, and advice, thanks for sharing them.

Regards;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

DonR said:


> All of the above make for a lot of switching movements
> in addition to those to and from the yards.
> 
> Don


This just goes to illustrate one of the good things about model railroading, there are many different things to do just as there are many different ways to run a layout. Some people like the switching aspect, others just want to see the trains run over the road, and some like a combination, or some other aspect of railroading. Years ago the magazines placed a lot of emphasis on switching, as if that was the only way to really play with trains. I don't know that the mag's have outgrown that idea yet but they are still stressing the small layout, as if they believe that no-one has more than just a little room to run trains. I suppose that is why I sometimes feel like an outsider. When we designed our new house, I intentionally designed a large attic for the sole purpose of building a large layout with specifications to suit. The problem is that some members of my family see it as a large storage space that they can use.


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## CTValleyRR (Jul 26, 2014)

thedoc said:


> When we designed our new house, I intentionally designed a large attic for the sole purpose of building a large layout with specifications to suit. The problem is that some members of my family see it as a large storage space that they can use.


I know how you feel. Some members of my family (looking at you, boys) see my layout as a "flat" surface that they can put stuff on, rather that exert the tiny extra effort it would require to actually take it to the proper location....:


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## The New Guy (Mar 11, 2012)

CTValleyRR said:


> Some members of my family (looking at you, boys) see my layout as a "flat" surface that they can put stuff on, rather that exert the tiny extra effort it would require to actually take it to the proper location...


I remember doing things that Dad told me not to do.
I vividly remember the consequences.

my butt hurts just thinking about it. good times.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

*Industries*



ke5nnt said:


> I am in the planning stage of a new N scale layout in my basement measuring 26' 6" x 10'9". Mostly it is an around-the-room shelf style build with 24" shelf depth throughout most, with some 36" depth sections to accommodate a little more fun.
> 
> My big question for myself now is, "what industry (industries) do I model?" I've been considering logging & lumber as the main industry on the layout but I feel as though I know little about how this industry operates in the modern era, as I am modeling the 2000s.
> 
> ...


ke5nnt;

Welcome to the forum! Right off the bat, let me say that I'm a bit jealous of your large basement space! I live in California where most homes do not have basements. Instead, my "around the walls", N-scale, railroad is mounted to a couple walls of my "California basement" (a.k.a. garage!) With that large a space available, you should be able to build quite a little empire in N-scale.
As GN fan and others have mentioned; the logging industry has changed drastically in recent years. Economics, environmental concerns, and government regulations have forced the industry to change. Most of what was done by logging company owned railroads; is now done by trucks, and internal combustion, specialized, log harvesting and moving equipment. The days of narrow gauge, hastily-built, and temporary railroads into the woods are mostly gone today. 
As several have said, it doesn't have to be that way on your railroad. This would be a bit more believable if you were willing to backdate your layout to say, the 1940s or 1950s when some of those logging rail lines were still around. In your own miniature world, they could have hung on longer if you wish.
Cut lumber, and paper products, and the pulpwood, chemicals, and such; used to make paper, are still hauled by rail today. 
The general "rule of (economic) thumb" for rail hauled vs. truck hauled goes something like this. How many gazillion tons of stuff do you want to transport? How far do you want it hauled? How many different places does it start from and/or have to go to? Generally rail transport makes economic sense when the amount of stuff to be hauled is huge, it starts in one, or two places, and it gets delivered to one or possibly two places. The value of the freight can also figure into the train/truck/barge transport decision; though its seldom the major determining factor. Trains, and barges, are most efficient at moving vast quantities of heavy(and sometimes relatively cheap-per-ton) freight from point "A" to point "B" when the two points are hundreds, or thousands, of miles apart. Between these two modes of transport, barges are usually cheaper than trains; as long as there just happens to be a navigable river, or lake, between Points "A"& "B". In the rather enormous area where such a convenient body of water doesn't exist; trains step in. Trucks can't move enormous quantities of the same stuff, over the long, point-to point, haul as cheaply;as trains, can. Where trucks do shine is where there are no convenient rails. Trucks can start anywhere and go anywhere, thanks to the extensive network of roads covering the continent. Trucks are also cheaper when smaller amounts of cargo need to travel shorter distances.
The lumber industry, and all other industries, follow these general guidelines to keep costs down, and stay in business.
A great deal of freight uses more than one of these modes of transport. One of the biggest sources of revenue for modern railroads is the inter-modal container business. Containers cross the world's oceans on purpose-built ships, are transferred direct to rail at some big container ports; and likely finish their journey on a truck. Container traffic would certainly be a good candidate for an industry on your modern railroad. The auto industry,already mentioned, would be another. This could apply to imported, finished autos; as well as domestic autos, and all the parts, and raw materials needed to make them. Millions of tons of agricultural products; as well as coal, and other minerals, also ride contemporary rails. 
You have plenty of choices for industries. You might first want to establish a geographical location for your railroad, and research what real railroads serve that region; and what they haul. There are good books available from www.Kalmbach.com on each of these industries, but since the books are pricey, you may want to do some google searching first. You might also check with your local public library. Often they can order books for you.

Good luck;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:


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## Bogart74 (Oct 26, 2016)

Remember that if you choose a paper mill as your industry, you have to make it authentic with the smell. I recommend leaving ham to rot in the general vicinity of your layout


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## Lemonhawk (Sep 24, 2013)

A friend of mine ran a move theater in Chillicothe, OH, before Mead built a really tall smoke stack, and when the wind was right the air was ripe! Just could not be good for your health.


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## Bogart74 (Oct 26, 2016)

Lemonhawk said:


> A friend of mine ran a move theater in Chillicothe, OH, before Mead built a really tall smoke stack, and when the wind was right the air was ripe! Just could not be good for your health.


I remember visiting there back in '88 - that stink permeated the city. And when you drove past the plant you could barely catch your breath. Heck, in North Florida we used to get a good dose of the Georgia Pacific plant from 20 miles away when the wind was right.


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## GNfan (Jun 3, 2016)

*Prototype smells?*

I grew up north of Seattle, WA in the 1960's. Before Boeing built the 747 plant, Everett, WA was a paper mill town. Prior to the Clean Air Act, the smell there was intense and distinctive. My brother and I used to hold our noses as we passed through. Maybe hiding a rotten egg on your layout would come close


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## thedoc (Oct 15, 2015)

traction fan said:


> ke5nnt;
> 
> Welcome to the forum! Right off the bat, let me say that I'm a bit jealous of your large basement space!


Then I won't make more jealous of my much larger attic for my HO scale layout.


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