# Question Re: Converting O Gauge, transformer, diesel to Proto Sound or Lion Chief



## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

Hi All,
I am relatively new here, and as stated above, I have a question regarding converting an O Gauge standard, transformer controlled, diesel to Proto Sound, or to Lion Chief.


I just purchased one of the Lionel Grand Central Express Sets from my local dealer, and I really like it. The only other locomotive that I have is the Lionel, Lion Chief equipped, Pennsylvania Flyer Freight Set.
I am planning the purchase of an MTH Pennsylvania 4-6-0 Madison Passenger Set, and a BNSF Freight set, both of which are equipped with the Proto Sound system.

I am planning a new (first time for me) 11” x 5” layout, and would like not to have power blocks, if I can help it. I would like to be able to run any train at any time anywhere on the tracks, and I am told that the Proto Sound and Lion Chief trains can do just that.

What I want to know is whether or not the Grand Central Express FT Diesel can be converted to either system, and whether or not it is practical to do so.

Thanks,
Roger


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Im not sure but the resident experts here will set you straight. I thought the proto sound system was just for sound and not for control. I could be wrong! Best to here from the experts before being anything.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

There are two command upgrades that are readily available, Lion Chief is not one of them.

You can use the boards from Electric RailRoad to upgrade conventional locomotive to TMCC command operation, and they have RailSounds upgrades for the sound as well.

You can use the ProtoSound 2 upgrade kits from MTH Trains (click on upgrade tab) to upgrade to DCS command operation, they supply motor control and sound capability.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Grj, just so he knows and im right , you need a operating base to use with either one right? So to upgrade he would need to purchase the tmcc or mth dcs system for control.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Yep, you do need the command system for whatever conversion you select, 100% correct.


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## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Yep, you do need the command system for whatever conversion you select, 100% correct.


I do plan on purchasing the MTH DCS system, so could I convert my Lionel transformer controlled FT to a Proto Sound 2 unit?

If so, how complicated would it be?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

To install the PS/2 upgrade, you need DC motors with flywheels. One of the motors will be fitted with the tach reader and tape to handle the speed control. I'm not sure what your FT is, so I can't say. Rather than try to explain it, here's the links to the upgrade manuals for diesel and steam.

Proto-Sound 2.0 Diesel Upgrade Kit Installation Instructions

Proto-Sound 2.0 Steam Upgrade Kit Installation Instructions


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## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> To install the PS/2 upgrade, you need DC motors with flywheels. One of the motors will be fitted with the tach reader and tape to handle the speed control. I'm not sure what your FT is, so I can't say. Rather than try to explain it, here's the links to the upgrade manuals for diesel and steam.


Thanks for the manuals. I will look into them when I get a few minutes.
_______________________

Now, I called my local Lionel/MTH dealer, and he said he could upgrade this FT to ProtoSound 3 for $300 (_$150/parts and another $150 labor_), and from what I have read, that sounds about right.

He then made another suggestion. They are the proper gray, with the lightening bolts at each end if each of the 3 units, and they are going for $475, which is not a bad deal, considering $300 to upgrade the single FT A-Unit.

My reservations are that I would have a nice FT locomotive that I would not be using, and I have this F3 B-Unit that I bought for $100, and BTW it is like brand new, and looks like it was never run.

That is a very nice set though, and I am tempted.
Comments?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I guess I don't understand the purchase option. Is that a PS/2 or PS/3 set they're offering? If so, that's probably the way I'd go, hard to beat that.

BTW, there is no PS/3 upgrade currently available, so if he's upgrading it to PS/3, he's doing it from parts, not from an official upgrade. The PS/3 upgrades may be out later this year, but I personally know the beta tester for the kit, and it's not yet available, even to MTH techs.


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## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> I guess I don't understand the purchase option. Is that a PS/2 or PS/3 set they're offering? If so, that's probably the way I'd go, hard to beat that.
> 
> BTW, there is no PS/3 upgrade currently available, so if he's upgrading it to PS/3, he's doing it from parts, not from an official upgrade. The PS/3 upgrades may be out later this year, but I personally know the beta tester for the kit, and it's not yet available, even to MTH techs.


The A-B-A set is for sure PS-3.

The upgrade is probably PS-2, and he is using an upgrade kit. I think I just made the assumption that it was PS-3, but now I remember that PS-2 is all that is available.

Do you think I could sell the extra B unit that I have? It is very nice, but it is Lionel, and not MTH, so I don't think I could run it as and A-B-B-A, and get all the functionality to the rear A unit.

I wish now that I had held off a bit before picking up that B, but then again when you look at the amount of money that will be spent over the years in this hobby, $100 is kind of in the noise I suppose.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You could always just install the feed-thru tether cable in the Lionel unit to solve the issue of running it.


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## herkulese (Feb 16, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You could always just install the feed-thru tether cable in the Lionel unit to solve the issue of running it.


You have lost me. Can you explain what you are referring to here?
Keep in mind that I am pretty new to all of this.


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