# Coupler addition question



## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

I currently have the Athearn Genesis Big Boy 4014 from the most recent run and a Kato FEF-3 #844 that I bought from a user here. Neither of these was made with a front coupler, which I can understand. My problem is I wanted to model a single train that was run in 2019 where the Big Boy had the lead with one water tender behind it, the FEF-3 was next in the consist with the second water tender behind it, and an ES44 was the modern diesel helper. 

Does anyone know how I can mount a front coupler on the FEF? And while doing that, I was thinking I might also try to mount one on the Big Boy if possible? The Big Boy doesn't need to have one for my planned train, but I thought it would be nice if I did it so I can change things up in the future if I want to.

If I cannot do this, I will just run two trains, since I currently have two sets of the Kato excursion cars. I just picked up and SD70M like was used on the Big Boy run this time and have the ES44 and Water Tenders on order when Kato completes their planned run and ships them. But I liked the two together in one consist if I can get it done.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> I currently have the Athearn Genesis Big Boy 4014 from the most recent run and a Kato FEF-3 #844 that I bought from a user here. Neither of these was made with a front coupler, which I can understand. My problem is I wanted to model a single train that was run in 2019 where the Big Boy had the lead with one water tender behind it, the FEF-3 was next in the consist with the second water tender behind it, and an ES44 was the modern diesel helper.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can mount a front coupler on the FEF? And while doing that, I was thinking I might also try to mount one on the Big Boy if possible? The Big Boy doesn't need to have one for my planned train, but I thought it would be nice if I did it so I can change things up in the future if I want to.
> 
> If I cannot do this, I will just run two trains, since I currently have two sets of the Kato excursion cars. I just picked up and SD70M like was used on the Big Boy run this time and have the ES44 and Water Tenders on order when Kato completes their planned run and ships them. But I liked the two together in one consist if I can get it done.





Steve Rothstein said:


> I currently have the Athearn Genesis Big Boy 4014 from the most recent run and a Kato FEF-3 #844 that I bought from a user here. Neither of these was made with a front coupler, which I can understand. My problem is I wanted to model a single train that was run in 2019 where the Big Boy had the lead with one water tender behind it, the FEF-3 was next in the consist with the second water tender behind it, and an ES44 was the modern diesel helper.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can mount a front coupler on the FEF? And while doing that, I was thinking I might also try to mount one on the Big Boy if possible? The Big Boy doesn't need to have one for my planned train, but I thought it would be nice if I did it so I can change things up in the future if I want to.
> 
> If I cannot do this, I will just run two trains, since I currently have two sets of the Kato excursion cars. I just picked up and SD70M like was used on the Big Boy run this time and have the ES44 and Water Tenders on order when Kato completes their planned run and ships them. But I liked the two together in one consist if I can get it done.


Steve;

I don't have either of those models (too expensive for me) What is on the front of them now? Are there "dummy" (non-operating) couplers, or just a blank pilot?
Based on your desire to double head them, I assume you want the front couplers to operate. Yes, it is possible to install an operating Micro-Trains coupler on the front of an N-scale steam locomotive. In fact, there are several ways to do it.
First, if you have not already done so, check the Micro-Trains website and see if they sell specific conversion kits for either, or both, of those particular locomotives. That would be the easiest way.
Failing that, Micro-Trains sold/may still sell, a conversion kit that included a boiler tube pilot or "cow catcher", with a working M-T coupler factory-installed.
Whether or not that pilot will fit your models is the question. I have one, and it was made for older, and smaller, models of steam locos.

If neither of those ideas work out, the last option is to try fitting a working coupler & draft box into the original Kato pilot. You will probably find that the draft box will not fit in such a tight spot. The M-T separate couplers come in two shapes of draft boxes. One is almost a perfect square, fully encloses the coupler shank, and is the larger of the two. The other is narrower, except for the very front, and longer. It is open on the long sides, and the coupler shank can be seen through the sides. I suspect that the first is very unlikely to fit, and the second is still likely to be slightly too big.

The last resort would be to install a Z-scale coupler and draft box, both of which are smaller. The Z-scale coupler is actually closer to scale size for N-scale than the couplers labeled "N-scale." It will mate with N-scale couplers though, despite the minor size difference. I have been able to fit the Z-scale couplers into some very small spaces on steam locomotives, as well as diesels and freight cars.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Steve;
> 
> I don't have either of those models (too expensive for me) What is on the front of them now? Are there "dummy" (non-operating) couplers, or just a blank pilot?
> Based on your desire to double head them, I assume you want the front couplers to operate. Yes, it is possible to install an operating Micro-Trains coupler on the front of an N-scale steam locomotive. In fact, there are several ways to do it.
> ...


Thanks. Both engines just have blank pilots on them. I was just reading up on the Big Boy manual and it says the pilot has open and closed positions and you can mount the coupler pocket and coupler. I should be able to find it as parts from them then.

The FEF has the pilot with no indicator of anything being there it cut, and behind it is just the flat base of the locomotive (I am not sure if it is just the plastic body or the frame itself). One of the things I did was look at the MTL conversion chart and it says there is nothing they make for the front coupler. I would need to get the box to hold the coupler shaft and the cut the pilot for it to stick through. 

An alternative I had considered trying, if I can find the parts, is to replace the pilot truck with a different brand that uses truck mounted couplers. I thought I saw on the HO big boy where the pilot truck had the coupler and it swung around backwards if you did not want the coupler. I doubt there is room on the N size to have the truck reverse, but the idea of truck mounted couplers sounded like it could work if I can find a truck that works.


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Thanks. Both engines just have blank pilots on them. I was just reading up on the Big Boy manual and it says the pilot has open and closed positions and you can mount the coupler pocket and coupler. I should be able to find it as parts from them then.
> 
> The FEF has the pilot with no indicator of anything being there it cut, and behind it is just the flat base of the locomotive (I am not sure if it is just the plastic body or the frame itself). One of the things I did was look at the MTL conversion chart and it says there is nothing they make for the front coupler. I would need to get the box to hold the coupler shaft and the cut the pilot for it to stick through.
> 
> An alternative I had considered trying, if I can find the parts, is to replace the pilot truck with a different brand that uses truck mounted couplers. I thought I saw on the HO big boy where the pilot truck had the coupler and it swung around backwards if you did not want the coupler. I doubt there is room on the N size to have the truck reverse, but the idea of truck mounted couplers sounded like it could work if I can find a truck that works.


 Steve;

While you could certainly find Micro-Trains trucks with attached couplers and a variety of truck side frames, I doubt you could have both a swinging truck-mounted coupler, and a pilot. The pilot would either be chopped nearly out of existence to have a slot big enough to let the coupler swing, or would need to swing with the coupler.(I've been running my grandson's "ConCor" (actually Kato) PA-1 diesel lately. It has a pilot piece that swings with the front truck & Rapido coupler. the pilot is a snap fit around the coupler box) Having the pilot of your 4-8-4 swing with the Talgo coupler of a Micro-Trains truck, might be a problem, since the coupler, box, and entire truck, are all made of Delrin plastic, which no glue will bond. Also, any liquid glue on the coupler box would likely get inside and ruin the coupler. You might be able to do it with latex caulk, or lo-temp hot glue.
Did you check on that Micro-Trains steam pilot with the coupler installed? That might be grafted onto a conventional truck by plastic welding. You do this with a small soldering iron, by melting a tiny bit of the mounting tab of the M-T pilot into the top of the truck frame. High risk surgery, but theoretically possible. I secure the top of M-T coupler boxes this way.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

May I say, some clear close uo pics of the locomotives in question might help to solve the problem….


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

traction fan said:


> Steve;
> 
> While you could certainly find Micro-Trains trucks with attached couplers and a variety of truck side frames, I doubt you could have both a swinging truck-mounted coupler, and a pilot. The pilot would either be chopped nearly out of existence to have a slot big enough to let the coupler swing, or would need to swing with the coupler. That's going to be a problem, since the coupler, box, and entire truck, are all made of Delrin plastic, which no glue will bond. Also, any liquid glue on the coupler box would likely get inside and ruin the coupler. You might be able to do it with latex caulk, or lo-temp hot glue.
> Did you check on that Micro-Trains steam pilot with the coupler installed? That might be grafted onto a conventional truck by plastic welding. You do this with a small soldering iron, by melting a tiny bit of the mounting tab of the M-T pilot into the top of the truck frame. High risk surgery, but theoretically possible. I secure the top of M-T coupler boxes this way.
> ...


You are right and I had not thought about the swing involved in the truck. That kind of rules that part out.



Old_Hobo said:


> May I say, some clear close uo pics of the locomotives in question might help to solve the problem….


I knew when I posted that someone would ask that, and I realized I had forgotten to get the pics when I was at my son's house. I will try to get them next weekend when I am down there, especially of the FEF, which is the one I am concerned with now.


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Sorry to take so long to get these pictures. My wife got sick this weekend which took up most of my time. A friendly hint for anyone over 50, get your shingles vaccination. It is a very painful infection.

Anyway, here are two pictures of the FEF-3. One shows the pilot from the front and I think I can see how to cut a hole for a coupler in it. A Dremel cutoff wheel should do the trick without damaging too much else. The second picture is the bottom of the train and shows where I think I can fit the coupler. It has two little (and to my mind they appear shorter in real life than the photo looks like) tabs like the walls for a box to hold the coupler. I think I can drill through the bottom to put a screw in to hold the coupler in position. Do I need to make a box or even a bottom for it or can I just put a coupler in there and use the screw to hold it?

Thanks for the help.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

If you are going to use Micro Train couplers, many come with coupler boxes/ covers….take a look here…..

Micro Train Couplers


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Thanks. I will definitely use the MTL couplers. I am trying to figure out which ones and what is really needed now.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

This is a link to pdf files, which show coupler conversions for all the makes and brands….you should be able to find the couplers that you need for your locomtives….

Micro Train Coupler Conversions


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## traction fan (Oct 5, 2014)

Steve Rothstein said:


> Sorry to take so long to get these pictures. My wife got sick this weekend which took up most of my time. A friendly hint for anyone over 50, get your shingles vaccination. It is a very painful infection.
> 
> Anyway, here are two pictures of the FEF-3. One shows the pilot from the front and I think I can see how to cut a hole for a coupler in it. A Dremel cutoff wheel should do the trick without damaging too much else. The second picture is the bottom of the train and shows where I think I can fit the coupler. It has two little (and to my mind they appear shorter in real life than the photo looks like) tabs like the walls for a box to hold the coupler. I think I can drill through the bottom to put a screw in to hold the coupler in position. Do I need to make a box or even a bottom for it or can I just put a coupler in there and use the screw to hold it?
> 
> ...


.

Steve;

Yes, that looks like the spot where you would mount a coupler. If you want the coupler to be operational, you will need a box. (technically called "draft gear" and M-T couplers come with the draft boxes.) There are many types & sizes, and your going to need a small box, and probably a long shank coupler.
I looked at the links that Old Hobo sent, and under "Kato, steam, FEF" it says there is no front coupler conversion kit. So, you're going to have to fit a general purpose M-T coupler, vs. a conversion kit made specifically for your locomotive. Bummer! 

If you find that you can't fit an N-scale coupler, you might try a Z-scale M-T coupler instead. Both the coupler, and the mounting box, are smaller, and will fit into some pretty tight spaces. Z-scale couplers will mate with N-scale couplers, as long as the two are both at the right height. On the down side, the Z-scale coupler may not reach out far enough over the pilot to connect to another locomotive's tender. (This is my reason for suggesting a long shank coupler.)

To open the pilot, I would not use a Dremel. Too much chance of chopping off something you want to keep. Instead, I'd drill a few small holes with a pin vise, and then cut with a brand new, sharp #11 X-acto blade, to create the opening. Mini files could finish things off. Micro-Trains sells a drill and tap set for the tiny 00-90 screws they use to mount their couplers. Be sure to order the drill & tap set when you order couplers.

Good Luck;

Traction Fan 🙂


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## Steve Rothstein (Jan 1, 2021)

Thanks, @traction fan for the advice. I will try the N scale coupler first and keep the Z scale in mind as a backup. And I appreciate the tip on the drill and tap set.


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## SD40Tom (May 15, 2020)

I have done the front coupler on the Big Boy, as I recall, there is a piece that swings out of the way revealing a coupler pocket, which will readily accept an MT 1015 coupler. I have also used the Z scale couplers on other steam pilots and given the appearance would opt for that here as well next time. As for the FEF, if you figure that out would love to see pictures!
Tom


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