# Well the honeymoon is over



## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

The smoke unit fans on three of my Legacy engines has stopped working. The GP9 and the SD40 I bought this year at York and the HT16-44 Baby Trainmaster I bought last October at York. The only one that works is my SD80 and I shut it off just incase it stops working. Needless to say I am seriously vexed.  :rippedhand: 

None of my TMCC engines (except for one) has any issues. So TMCC engines are more reliable than Legacy? I sure this will be the last time I buy Legacy. Postwar is looking pretty good right now.

The engines run fine other than that so I guess I'll just run without smoke. I won't be contacting Lionel because they are on my last nerve right now. :sly:


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

did you hear a scream of death from the fan motor?

are you getting the three blink error sequence in the cab lights?


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Fabforrest said:


> did you hear a scream of death from the fan motor?
> 
> are you getting the three blink error sequence in the cab lights?


YES!! All three engines are blinking. I reset the engines at least three or four times. I'm too pissed to really do anything useful. Maybe next week or even a month I'll think about getting them fixed. It's not a major problem, but I've only been back four days. It could have at least waited until next week. My buddy Bob is a Lionel tech, but I not going to call him right now. I've set the switches to No Smoke and just leave it at that.


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Thats a bummer Denny, Lionel's smoke units have cost them a ton of money in warranty repairs. You would think after many years of this problem they would have fixed it by now.

Does lionel pick up the tab for return shipping, if so send em back one at a time.

Bill


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

A bummer, I like the smoke and run it when I can. I've had the smoke on only one unit, and MTH Hudson, fail. But this could be just because I don't run smoke alot so the units don't get much use. Never had a Legacy fail _that I know of._ I normally have to run without smoke anyway, because she-who-hates-the-odor has a very sensitive nose.


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## Volphin (Dec 7, 2015)

I just keep two complete ones in stock for my Berks, and a few fan motors as well. I also hold on to the old ones and replace the fan motors when I have the patience. It's the little motor that gives out.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Denny, maybe we all have the wrong impression. We buy a car and expect to add gas... that's like smoke fluid. And we change the oil... that must be what this is. Instead of a "Change oil" light, we get three blinking ones.

When you figure it out, please advise what you did. I have a Seaboard Centipede with less than three hours run time and it was just blinking away when I put it back in the box. We bought MTH at York. Big Orange needs help.

Glad you had a safe trip home.


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## Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> I normally have to run without smoke anyway, because she-who-hates-the-odor has a very sensitive nose.


That put a big smile on my face this morning. I've got one of those too!!!!


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## Spence (Oct 15, 2015)

I bought 2 Lionel engines several years ago At the "Big E" and within 2 months had problems with both of them. I no longer buy any engines at any shows. I'm sorry to hear about your engine problems.


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## raleets (Jan 2, 2011)

Wood said:


> That put a big smile on my face this morning. I've got one of those too!!!!


One MAJOR advantage in having your layout in a separate out-building from the house is that she-who-hates-the-odor rarely ventures into my domain.  :laugh:


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

​


Wood said:


> That put a big smile on my face this morning. I've got one of those too!!!!


Frankly, I imagine we are not alone. A sensitive nose seems to be standard equipment on good wives.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Bill Webb said:


> Denny, maybe we all have the wrong impression. We buy a car and expect to add gas... that's like smoke fluid. And we change the oil... that must be what this is. Instead of a "Change oil" light, we get three blinking ones.
> 
> When you figure it out, please advise what you did. I have a Seaboard Centipede with less than three hours run time and it was just blinking away when I put it back in the box. We bought MTH at York. Big Orange needs help.
> 
> Glad you had a safe trip home.


They were all working fine then one by one they stopped. Now the only one that works is the SD80. I have three TMCC engines. No problems except for one, but there are several issues with that one. 

Lee, I had a exhaust vent installed over the layout which does pretty good job at keeping the smell from getting upstairs. I'm the one with the sensitive nose, but that's from being a Cook for over 30 years.


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## laz57 (Sep 19, 2015)

Lee Willis said:


> ​
> Frankly, I imagine we are not alone. A sensitive nose seems to be standard equipment on good wives.


You got that right.:laugh:


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

DennyM said:


> They were all working fine then one by one they stopped. Now the only one that works is the SD80. I have three TMCC engines. No problems except for one, but there are several issues with that one.
> 
> Lee, I had a exhaust vent installed over the layout which does pretty good job at keeping the smell from getting upstairs. I'm the one with the sensitive nose, but that's from being a Cook for over 30 years.


Denny, do you use a lot of fluid at a time? Too much can stall the motor if it creeps into the fan chamber. More likely to occur if the fan motor is vertical.
Legacy has too many nannys. It senses when the fan motor draws too much current and shuts it down.
No nannys on TMCC smoke units.
Not unlike modern cars that will give an error or actually limit engine RPM if an emission control device fails.

Pete


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Norton said:


> Denny, do you use a lot of fluid at a time? Too much can stall the motor if it creeps into the fan chamber. More likely to occur if the fan motor is vertical.
> Legacy has too many nannys. It senses when the fan motor draws too much current and shuts it down.
> No nannys on TMCC smoke units.
> Not unlike modern cars that will give an error or actually limit engine RPM if an emission control device fails.
> ...


You know Pete that's a strong possibility. I use the amount that is stated in the manual. Maybe I should back off that amount. The only one that I know of that has a vertical fan is the GP9. I know the Baby Trainmaster has a horizontal fan it's been replaced twice now. I wanted to take the cover off the SD40 to look at the smoke unit, but two of the four cover screws are really hard to get to.

I'm going to eventually take them to Bob to look at. He was at York too and at the MTF dinner. He's a Lionel tech and can fix it. I'm just too annoyed and stubborn to call him right now.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Lee Willis said:


> Frankly, I imagine we are not alone. A sensitive nose seems to be standard equipment on good wives.


I have one too. Funny thing is, she smokes (cigarettes), but outside. I'm confused as to why the smell of a train bothers her.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

highvoltage said:


> I have one too. Funny thing is, she smokes (cigarettes), but outside. I'm confused as to why the smell of a train bothers her.


My son is a heavy smoker and like most smokers he doesn't realize how bad he smells. He has to smoke on the porch too.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Denny, this may sound silly, but it has worked for me. Engines that have smoke unit issues get JTMegasteam Eliminator. I am not sure how it works, but it is a useful side effect. This assumes, however, that no scream of death has happened. 

My F3 WP A unit was showing three blinks when I started it up two days ago after not running for a while. Added some Elimintor and ran with no smoke for 30 min. Reset, turned the smoke back on and all was good. These balky units need frequent exercise. 

Give Eliminator a try. What have you got to lose?

The sensitive nose people should try NADA from JTMegasteam. I reacted to smoke until I started using NADA, now I have no problems. The Eliminator is OK too.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

DennyM said:


> My son is a heavy smoker and like most smokers he doesn't realize how bad he smells. He has to smoke on the porch too.


That's exactly where she smokes also. She was smoking in the basement when we lived in NH but the new house doesn't have any area that I can seal off, so it's outside for her.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

Fabforrest said:


> ...The sensitive nose people should try NADA from JTMegasteam. I reacted to smoke until I started using NADA, now I have no problems. The Eliminator is OK too.


That's what I'm using now, but it still seems to bother her.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Fabforrest said:


> Denny, this may sound silly, but it has worked for me. Engines that have smoke unit issues get JTMegasteam Eliminator. I am not sure how it works, but it is a useful side effect. This assumes, however, that no scream of death has happened.
> 
> My F3 WP A unit was showing three blinks when I started it up two days ago after not running for a while. Added some Elimintor and ran with no smoke for 30 min. Reset, turned the smoke back on and all was good. These balky units need frequent exercise.
> 
> ...


I will try that. The closest train store is about 50 miles from me. I only go there once or twice a month. I know he has it. 

Did you have to put a little smoke fluid in after you ran it with the Eliminator?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Denny, one thing that frequently works for the three blinks (fan motor) is to give a brief shot of compressed air down into the smoke unit. The fan gets spinning. Once you get it spinning, Forrest's recommendation for JT's Eliminator is a good one, it actually does free up the bearings on smoke motors many times.


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## SDIV Tim (Nov 19, 2015)

My Class A unit Smokes perfect ever since I have owned it but the Challenger arrived with a bad Smoke Unit


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

"Did you have to put a little smoke fluid in after you ran it with the Eliminator?"

Eliminator is a smoke fluid, so i use just it in those units that need it. excellent results.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Denny, one thing that frequently works for the three blinks (fan motor) is to give a brief shot of compressed air down into the smoke unit. The fan gets spinning. Once you get it spinning, Forrest's recommendation for JT's Eliminator is a good one, it actually does free up the bearings on smoke motors many times.


I blasted all three with compressed air. I still need to drive to I Love Toy Trains to get the Eliminator. I won't be able to do that until next Saturday. I started to get a bottle last time I was there, but decided I didn't need it.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

Denny,

I can't work out whether any of the engines you have were manufactured at the time Lionel was using a defective batch of fan motors. I think that one (the GP-9) might have been but in any case I have had the same blinking light issue with some of my Lionel Legacy diesels. 

This includes a VL Centipede that had been on the shelf for many months. It did not come with defective fan motors; I think it had simply sat too long with fluid residue on the top of the vertical mount motors.

The fact that Lionel smoke units are vulnerable to this problem possibly gets overshadowed by other Lionel smoke unit issues. I have never had this problem with MTH smoke units. In trying to figure out why I have concluded that in some Legacy smoke units the design allows for smoke fluid vapor to be drawn back from the chamber where the heater and wicking are into the adjacent fan/impeller chamber.

But even if I am wrong about that, a long time ago Mike Reagan himself recommended using a shot of compressed air to solve the blinking light issue. For all practical purposes he admitted that the fault detection in Legacy smoke units is too sensitive. It will be triggered whenever the system thinks that the fan motor is drawing too much current and that can happen when the motor is slightly "sticky" from smoke fluid residue. The air spins the fan fast enough to free it to start properly. 

Eliminator has worked for me. I think it must dissolve the residue. The alternative is to take apart the smoke unit and clean around the motor bearing, which involves taking off the impeller mounted on the shaft through it. A fiddly job at the best of times.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

I see a lot of MTH and Lionel smoke units. Trust me, MTH has plenty of issues at times with smoke units as well.  The plain fact is the smoke unit is probably one of the most maintenance intensive parts of an O-gauge model, and it does require some TLC at times.

Lionel indeed did have a run of bad smoke motors, that was in the 2010-2013 timeframe I believe, the exact bounds are difficult to know for sure. During that period, I replaced dozens of fan motors with the MTH motors that were fine. However, the last couple of years have seen the incidences of bad Lionel smoke motors fall way off.

You just have to tighten your belt and replace the defective motors as they seem to have bitten you.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Bob mentioned that Lionel had a bad batch of motors. At any rate I'll see him this week to pick up a bottle of Eliminator and see how that works. If it doesn't solve the problem then I'll just won't run with smoke. 

The screws are too small for me to attempt to take the unit apart. I know Bob can fix them, but I don't want to bother with it. I can say that this is my last Legacy purchase and MTH isn't in the picture at all. Buy Williams or Williams by Bachmann and put ERR boards in them. Six of them and no issues at all. Maybe Atlas with TMCC.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

DennyM said:


> Bob mentioned that Lionel had a bad batch of motors. At any rate I'll see him this week to pick up a bottle of Eliminator and see how that works. If it doesn't solve the problem then I'll just won't run with smoke.
> 
> The screws are too small for me to attempt to take the unit apart. I know Bob can fix them, but I don't want to bother with it.


I understand that it is really exasperating when modern engines have issues like this. hwell: However I always think it's a pity to run them without using operating features if there is a known fix. In this case I think there is. 

By all means try Eliminator as well as the shot of compressed air. If that does not work I'd have the smoke unit looked at by the service guy; in fact I'd probably take it along to the store when you are going there anyway to see if the problem recurs on his test track.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

HarborBelt1970 said:


> I understand that it is really exasperating when modern engines have issues like this. hwell: However I always think it's a pity to run them without using operating features if there is a known fix. In this case I think there is.
> 
> By all means try Eliminator as well as the shot of compressed air. If that does not work I'd have the smoke unit looked at by the service guy; in fact I'd probably take it along to the store when you are going there anyway to see if the problem recurs on his test track.


The good thing is I can take it to his house if need be. I don't have to drive all the way to the train store in Michigan City, IN where Bob works (50 miles). He texted me yesterday a told me he brought a bottle of Eliminator home for me. I'll probably pick it up tomorrow. 

He also has a Fastrack wye switch for the club the I need to pick up and take to the club on Wednesday. I'll try the Eliminator then before the other club member get there.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Denny, don't be shy about using the Eliminator. I usually put a nearly full eye dropper in. I also give it a half hour to soak in. Good Luck!


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If the fan isn't running at all, you don't want to soak the smoke unit, you have to get it working after a fashion before attempting to "fix" it.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm assuming the use of compressed air is form a can, but can a compressor be used, and what would be the recommended PSI? I have a gas fire place, and I was having issues with it not firing, and after I called the company, they recommended a few blasts of air, below 30 PSI, and I have had no more problems.
Don


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Hard to say exactly, I just use a seat of the pants shot of air from a air can.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Good luck Denny. Please keep us informed.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If the fan isn't running at all, you don't want to soak the smoke unit, you have to get it working after a fashion before attempting to "fix" it.


I'd try starting the engine up after giving the smoke unit a shot of compressed air and before adding Eliminator to see if the fan spins. I think Denny has already given the unit(s) the air shot treatment but there's no harm in doing it again before adding Eliminator. 

I have found that this works with my own "sticky" fan motors. The point is to get the fan to start spinning continuously without the d*amned Legacy blinks.

How much air to use? I don't think that there is any exact science to this. A can of compressed air probably comes out at 30 psi or more. In fact I have used an airbrush at 18 psi, the reason being that I didn't want to blow more smoke fluid around inside the smoke unit. But the increased pressure from a can won't matter much if you are just applying it in a short burst.

And do let us know what happens!


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If the fan isn't running at all, you don't want to soak the smoke unit, you have to get it working after a fashion before attempting to "fix" it.


I know two of the engines the fan tries to spin. The third one I can't tell because two of the cover screws are under the trucks and I can't get the screwdriver to them. I need to take the cover off to see what's going on. I don't want to mess with that. I might let Bob work on that one......someday. I'm picking the Eliminator up tomorrow.


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Denny, That is a bummer! I hope you get them all working. I am in the camp of not running smoke. Smoke does bother my wife's asthma. I usually don't even think to check the smoke unit when I buy an engine, unless it comes on right off. Then I have to remember to try it out before selling to one of you good folks! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It if don't smoke, it don't go here.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Well I did everything you guys said to do. The fans act like they want to work, but they won't. I appreciate all your help, but I really don't have the patience for this. I have put the switches for the smoke units back to No Smoke. 

Right now I feel like putting them all back in the boxes and selling the lot of them. I think I will. I'm going to take them to I Love Toy Trains and see what I can get for them. I can say this, I will _never_ buy a Legacy engine again. One engine is bad enough, but three? I'm done with it.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If you want to take what a train shop would give you, I'll buy them! Fixing the smoke units isn't that difficult.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm still thinking about it John. I have to stop posting when I'm angry. It's mostly because it's three engines at once. The three Legacy engines I bought in the Orange Hall (one last October) all have smoke unit issues. The one I bought in the Silver Hall works fine. Bob knows how I get. He wants to fix them so maybe at some point I will let him. Thanks for giving me another option.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Fire them up again today and see what happens.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

DennyM said:


> I'm still thinking about it John. I have to stop posting when I'm angry. It's mostly because it's three engines at once. The three Legacy engines I bought in the Orange Hall (one last October) all have smoke unit issues. The one I bought in the Silver Hall works fine. Bob knows how I get. He wants to fix them so maybe at some point I will let him. Thanks for giving me another option.


I thought you might come to your senses.  I'd rather see you fix them as well, but if a real bargain comes along, I always have my ear to the ground.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Fabforrest said:


> Fire them up again today and see what happens.


I need to walk away for a while. I boxed everything and put them away. I don't get along with electronic things. You should see what I did to my laptop. My wife hid my cell phone for a month because I tried to kill it with a ball peen hammer.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Temper...temper...temper...


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## Lee Willis (Jan 1, 2014)

DennyM said:


> My wife hid my cell phone for a month because I tried to kill it with a ball peen hammer.


I can understand why. Everyone knows you don't take a ball peen hammer to a cell phone. 

I always use a claw hammer myself.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Lee Willis said:


> I can understand why. Everyone knows you don't take a ball peen hammer to a cell phone.
> 
> I always use a claw hammer myself.


It was the first hammer I saw.


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## Don F (Dec 5, 2015)

DennyM said:


> It was the first hammer I saw.


Denny,
next time, squash it in a vise, it's a slow painful death!
Don


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Now there's another issue with the SD40. Not only is the smoke unit not working, but one of the ditch lights is flickering and doesn't oscillate with I blow the horn. If there is a way to disconnect them please tell me. It's in the box and out of sight for now. 

The problem with the smoke unit fans is probably my fault, but the manual says 18 to 20 drops of smoke fluid. If that is too much then why do they recommend it?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

DennyM said:


> Now there's another issue with the SD40. Not only is the smoke unit not working, but one of the ditch lights is flickering and doesn't oscillate with I blow the horn. If there is a way to disconnect them please tell me. It's in the box and out of sight for now.


If it weren't for bad luck, you'd have no luck at all. 



> The problem with the smoke unit fans is probably my fault, but the manual says 18 to 20 drops of smoke fluid. If that is too much then why do they recommend it?


That's not the problem. When I get a new engine, or I'm rebuilding a smoke unit with fresh wick, I give the dry smoke unit at least twice that. Truthfully, if you actually use 20 drops in a dry smoke unit, you'll get anemic smoke.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I got my HT16-44 Baby Trainmaster to start smoking again after using the Eliminator. The GP9 acts like it wants to, but the SD40 I think Bob is going to have to work on. I'm going to I Love Toy Trains tomorrow (he works on Saturdays there) to run trains so I'll take both engines with. Plus he needs to see why that ditch light on the SD40 is flickering. It's acts like the contact is dirty or loose.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> If it weren't for bad luck, you'd have no luck at all.


My life story.hwell:


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm glad you got one of them working!! Things are looking up a bit.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> ...That's not the problem. When I get a new engine, or I'm rebuilding a smoke unit with fresh wick, I give the dry smoke unit at least twice that. Truthfully, if you actually use 20 drops in a dry smoke unit, you'll get anemic smoke.


So how much is too much? I've been using 20 drops (per the manual) and the smoke is, well, less than spectacular.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

Well, you know it is too much if you have smoke fluid bring blown out the stack. 

As noted above, I use most of a dropper. I also give it time to soak into the wick.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

highvoltage said:


> So how much is too much? I've been using 20 drops (per the manual) and the smoke is, well, less than spectacular.


Forum member LaidOffSick (a.k.a. Doug) has posted extensively on this issue and his YouTube channel has a video about it, which is linked below.

My 2¢ is that 

1. it does take more than 20 drops to prime most Legacy smoke units but especially those that have dual chambers for whistle steam (I have found that it's best to add the fluid slowly, giving it time to soak in especially with units of the kind referred to in 3 below);

2. that said, it seems to me that a lot of later issue Legacy smoke units are significantly smaller than older TMCC units and indeed MTH units so you do have to be careful about how much you put in them (I'll illustrate a case in point below); and

3. for those Legacy units that had the pre-cut batting installed at the factory, it's best to replace that with rope wicking - as Lionel itself appears to have done with later Legacy models. 

Here's an illustration of what I think is a typical Legacy diesel smoke unit (albeit from a VL Centipede) - notice that it's fairly small, the smoke and fan chambers are made of some plastic/composite material rather than metal and they are a one piece assembly:









You'll also notice that if the impeller spins clockwise, as it's meant to do, the airflow is not direct into the channel leading to the smoke chamber but basically has to be pushed through a 90 degree turn. In fact I found that these units shipped with the fan motor reverse wired to spin counterclockwise so that the "scooped" or concave side of the impeller is pushing the air, which it is not meant to do. 

Neither rotation seems very efficient in these units; I dunno why they were designed with the fan mounted where it is. This one still had the pre-cut batting in it when the photo was taken; I replaced that and indeed the fan motor, which sounded like a swarm of bees after the engine was left un-run for several months.

LOS's video is here:


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

At least for me the screws are way too small and I'm sure I would drop them and never find them. My never damage in my right arm is still not fully working yet. Getting better though.

I did get the GP9 smoking again using the Eliminator. Now if I can get the SD40 smoking. I just added a little more Eliminator and I'll try it tonight.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

DennyM said:


> At least for me the screws are way too small and I'm sure I would drop them and never find them. My never damage in my right arm is still not fully working yet. Getting better though.
> 
> I did get the GP9 smoking again using the Eliminator. Now if I can get the SD40 smoking. I just added a little more Eliminator and I'll try it tonight.


Well spoke too soon about the GP9. The cab light just started blinking threes times again. The Baby Trainmaster fan works when it wants to. I'm really exceeding my range of patience here.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

Wow Denny! I hope I can always stay on your good side.


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

DennyM said:


> Well spoke too soon about the GP9. The cab light just started blinking threes times again. The Baby Trainmaster fan works when it wants to. I'm really exceeding my range of patience here.


That would exceed practically anyone's patience.  I am not sure when the GP9 was manufactured (2013? which might mean it has one of the bad fan motors) or indeed how much run time it had before you got it. I'd be resigned to replacing the fan motor myself or letting a repair tech do it.


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## highvoltage (Apr 6, 2014)

HB1970, thanks for the information. I'll go add some more fluid.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Those impellers were apparently not built for that smoke unit, the convex side should push the air. However, given that design, I'd wire it CCW as well.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Yellowstone Special said:


> Wow Denny! I hope I can always stay on your good side.


Vern, you guys are always on my good side. It's electronics and the dingdongs that live here in my county that chaps my hide. :sly:


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## HarborBelt1970 (Sep 24, 2015)

highvoltage said:


> HB1970, thanks for the information. I'll go add some more fluid.


I probably should have added that you should not expect truly prodigious smoke output in any event. With one exception (the original Legacy 6 Ohm resistor units in the first FEF3), Legacy smoke units don't smoke as much as MTH or even 3rd Rail - or at least (autocorrect wanted to make that "Atlas") not in my humble experience. I know there's some smoke unit design patent issue with MTH that I have never got to the bottom of but no one else uses dual resistors, AFAIK. 

This doesn't matter much with diesels but with steamers, well . . . . With Legacy you must also remember to crank up the EFX setting to get the max output it can offer.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

"With one exception (the original Legacy 6 Ohm resistor units in the first FEF3), "

Still my best smoker, but my 765, 267 and lionmaster 3989 are fine smokers.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

HarborBelt1970 said:


> With Legacy you must also remember to crank up the EFX setting to get the max output it can offer.


What is the EFX setting??


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

A button on the CAB-2

You have Legacy engines, but are you actually running Legacy? 

What are you using for power? Smooth sine wave or chopped sine wave?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Truthfully, I have a number of Legacy locomotives that smoke just fine. I will admit that for all-out volumes of smoke, MTH is generally the champ. Truthfully, a properly running Legacy locomotive has always smoked as well or better than either 3rd Rail or Atlas for me.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Fabforrest said:


> A button on the CAB
> 
> You have Legacybengines, but are you actually running Legacy?
> 
> What are you using for power? Smooth sine wave or chopped sine wave?


I'm running a Cab1-L. It doesn't do everything the Cab2 does, but it will communicate with a Legacy base. 

As far as power I'm using a Lionel 180w brick with a Legacy Powermaster which works fine for my layout. 

Cab1-L/Base1-L








Legacy Powermaster with a 180w brick. The fuse is from I was using a PW ZW. I just never removed it.


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## Fabforrest (Aug 31, 2015)

i assume you have a legacy base??? No EFX button on a CAB-1L. 

You are running with chopped sine wave power which is beat for legacy engines and smoke units.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

There is no EFX button on Cab1-L and I'm running through a Base1-L, if you look the pictures I posted it says Legacy on all three devises. Cab1-L is Legacy, but not a Cab2 Legacy. It doesn't have all the features Cab2 does. I can operate it through a Legacy base if I want, I do it on the club layout, but to you can't do that with Cab1 without using a Powermaster Bridge.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

I got all the engines fixed today. Bob had to replace two of the fan motors.


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

I got all the engines fixed today. Bob had to replace two of the fan motors.


Glad you got them fixed. You must have really liked them when you bought them, so why not fix them.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Bob Phillips said:


> I got all the engines fixed today. Bob had to replace two of the fan motors.
> 
> 
> Glad you got them fixed. You must have really liked them when you bought them, so why not fix them.


Well Bob suggested the using them for target practice would be unproductive. Then I would have to clean my long gun and all the pieces I would have to pick up off the ground and my neighbors would be freaking out because I discharged a gun in the city limits. So I got them fixed.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

Denny what did Bob say that you did wrong to break two at once?

Glad that you got the problem fixed. Good luck running them tomorrow. Expect you are doing Mother's. Day today.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

He didn't say, but he did replace the fan motors in both engines. He did say the fan motor in the SD40 had been wired backwards. The third engine I got the fan working after letting it sit with Mega Steam Eliminator in it over night. I'm pretty sure I put too much smoke fluid in at one time.


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## Bill Webb (Sep 14, 2015)

10/4. Thanks.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

Breaker Breaker


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## BobP (May 2, 2017)

I'm SO Glad you didn't Shoot Them!! I know the city of South Haven has Strict Laws about discharging a Firearm in City Limits!! I would not have wanted to bail you out of jail!!!!!!!!!


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## Mark Boyce (Jul 22, 2015)

Yes BobP is correct! In times like we live in now, one can't be too careful! You may go to jail for discharging a firearm into your own locomotive, while someone found guilty of armed robbery goes free! Ah, a new twist to the Great Train Robbery!!


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## Bob Phillips (Nov 25, 2014)

Good to see you here Bob P. You kept Denny M under control. He seems so mild mannered at York.


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## DennyM (Jan 3, 2016)

BobP said:


> I'm SO Glad you didn't Shoot Them!! I know the city of South Haven has Strict Laws about discharging a Firearm in City Limits!! I would not have wanted to bail you out of jail!!!!!!!!!


I know most of the cops here. They would have maybe taken my poor little single shot 410 away and written me a large ticket......maybe. 



Bob Phillips said:


> Good to see you here Bob P. You kept Denny M under control. He seems so mild mannered at York.


That's my alter ego. I am actually GRUMPYMAN!!


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