# Question about super elevation!



## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

I want to super elevate a curve is .250" enough or do i want thicker?


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## JerryH (Nov 18, 2012)

A quarter inch and the train will fall off the track. .025 sounds much more reasonable.


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

The magnitude of track superelevation depends on several factors: track curve radius, train speed, type of cars, etc. In general, though, something on the order of a few degrees of superelevation is typical. On HO gauge track, that's about 0.03" ... consistent with Jerry's comment, above.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

i miss read it wrong its .250" x .010" is that .010 good enough? Mainly its an excursion line so slow moving steam engines pulling 3 to 4 passenger cars


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

britblad said:


> i miss read it wrong its .250" x .010" is that .010 good enough?


I'm not sure I understand that terminology ... is that a run vs. rise ratio (i.e., slope)? If so, HO track is 16.5 mm, or about 0.65". If you apply that slope, that's about 0.026" ... right back to Jerry's number.

TJ


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

TheTrainMan said:


> Ok I have a question, what do you do when you super elevate?


Have you still not learned to use Google?

Let Me Google That For You


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## Maverickhwe (Mar 19, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Have you still not learned to use Google?
> 
> Let Me Google That For You



I would have asked the same question. Not because I can't use google but because sometimes asking people that have done it goes a lot farther then google does.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Super elevation in models is pointless... There is not enough weight or momentum to do any good. Does it look good, well maybe, but it's pretty hard to see .010 to .025 of elevation change.
And like everyone has stated .025 is the proper Max height, .25 or 1/4 would be way to drastic of a slope to work.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Sean, the .25" is for high speed turns.


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## andersley (Oct 24, 2010)

NIMT said:


> Super elevation in models is pointless...


I disagree. I once built a double track HO scale Belgian layout and installed superelevation, not for running improvement, but for looks. On a single track it may not show much but on double track it is quite evident and looks great. I don't have any head-on shots of the trains, but the one below I think shows a little of the superelevation. It was quite evident when two trains were passing. The layout was sold several years ago, but I wish I had taken many more images of it.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I mean pointless from functional point of view not visual!


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

tell you what from now on i will go to a different forum it seams all ppl want to do is is argue is it so wrong to ask if .01 was enough?

so what if someone said .025 was good that dont mean its the best answer and only 1 person said it btw scroll up and look.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

if you look back i corrected my self i'm sorry you dont make mistakes but i am human and do make mistakes like comming to this forum to ask questions obviously.



NIMT said:


> Super elevation in models is pointless... There is not enough weight or momentum to do any good. Does it look good, well maybe, but it's pretty hard to see .010 to .025 of elevation change.
> And like everyone has stated .025 is the proper Max height, .25 or 1/4 would be way to drastic of a slope to work.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

WOW,
Calm down, I wasn't knocking you by no means.
I was just bring up the point that 1/4" would cause you some serious issues running them!
From a funtional point it's not worth the trouble but yes from a look perspective it can look pretty cool!
Me not make mistakes...YEA RIGHT!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm sorry i just get annoyed when i ask a question and people say its been said before when i am asking another question i just dont understand why people have to act like that all i wanted was a answer and you get assholes like john that think google is the answer to everything i'm sorry i was mad at him not you but i took it out on you!





NIMT said:


> WOW,
> Calm down, I wasn't knocking you by no means.
> I was just bring up the point that 1/4" would cause you some serious issues running them!
> From a funtional point it's not worth the trouble but yes from a look perspective it can look pretty cool!
> Me not make mistakes...YEA RIGHT!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

Maybe i wanted a real answer not some answer from a webdesigner that dosnt even do anything with trains and maybe i had alread checked google and couldnt find the answer google is not the answer to everything but experience is! so go back to your O-scale and let ppl help people!




gunrunnerjohn said:


> Have you still not learned to use Google?
> 
> Let Me Google That For You


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I made a curve super elavted by accadent. I do not know the %. If I stopped and the restarted a train on the curve it would sometimes pull the cars off of the track.

It did look cool running through it.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

I Think GRJ was talking about Thetrainnan, not you.


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## Southern (Nov 17, 2008)

What ever super elevation that you decide. test it before you ballast it and make it permanent.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

thank you southern for the normal answer!


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

There is a lot of confusion as to how much super elevation is needed to make it right.
A main line designed to support high-speed traffic could be superelevated by 4 scale inches as a matter of standard on the model. Branch lines could be superelevated only 2-3 scale inches, depending on their usage. Yard and industrial track is generally not superelevated. 
4 inches is about 0.045 inches in height on an HO scale layout and 0.025 on an N scale layout. One convenient way to introduce superelevation in your layout is to cut small plastic spacers of the proper thickness and place them under the ties on the outside of curves. Sheet styrene is available in .005, .010, .020, .040 and other thickness values. Use one or more pieces of styrene to achieve the desired superelevation.

Just keep increasing the height of the CANT (superevelation) till you get to the max and then back down as you head out of the curve.


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## dannyrandomstate (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank you NIMT for that informative answer.


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## andersley (Oct 24, 2010)

NIMT, that is exactly the method I used and it worked very well. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Super elevation is mainly all for looks in the model train world. Its ones opinion if he wants to superelevate his curves or not.
You also have to make a easy change in elevation versus quick or it can cause problems pulling a string of cars up a 2% grade for example.

In my addition I added super elevation just to see what all the hype is about. Yes it looks kinda cool but other then that like Sean says it seems pointless to do it unless your running your trains around your layout like its the Daytona 500...

Now to jump off topic for a second...
This forum has always been better then the others in terms of people getting along and leaving the elementary school bickering to the other forums..
People get tired of hearing the same question so they think they are being nice by answering and saying "go google it"... their will always be someone to come along and give the right answer without the negativity
Our forum has a decent database for looking for questions like" superelevation for example" its called the search function.. I use this quite frequently actually, especially when I was starting to build my layout.
I think a few people were misunderstood which happens, that's life ...
I do not think anyone meant to sound negative or came off negative, its called a misunderstanding

But I'd hate to see anyone leave this forum over something as silly as being misunderstood.

Again, leave the elementary school jerry springer drama for the other forums and let's move on and get back to the topic at hand and to talk about model trains, this is why we are all here in the first place,remember

If you look around at hardware stores they sell tape that's thick almost has thin foam to it, its about 1/16th-maybe1/8th thick. Its what I used.
I will try and snap some pictures tonight, I super elevated my curves on my 2% grade...


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## andersley (Oct 24, 2010)

As joed says, it is important to gradually ease into the maximum elevation. On mine I used styrene of varying thickness to gradually build up to height desired. 

The layout was built to be exhibited at shows so we ran trains on the main line rather faster than we would normally do. (crowd pleaser for the kids) 

The upper level was freight industries for more serious switching, so it was popular at shows for both camps


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

ok are you saying slowly elevate it like say start with a .010 then test then replace with .020 ect.. or do you mean start of the curve with say .010 then go up as you progress thru the curve?



andersley said:


> As joed says, it is important to gradually ease into the maximum elevation. On mine I used styrene of varying thickness to gradually build up to height desired.
> 
> The layout was built to be exhibited at shows so we ran trains on the main line rather faster than we would normally do. (crowd pleaser for the kids)
> 
> ...


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## andersley (Oct 24, 2010)

Yes, at the beginning of the curve start with very thin shim and gradually increase the thickness as you head further into the curve, up to whatever maximum needed, then do the same as you exit the curve.

This ensures a smooth transition from flat to cant instead of a sudden change.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## joed2323 (Oct 17, 2010)

Britbrad- if you can do some testing before you secure the track permanently would be ideal.

This way you can get a feel for what thickness works well in your situation. It doesn't take too much to get the track elevated.

Their is also some good YouTube videos on super elevation, sorry I can't post a link to the video I'm at work right now, give me a few hours and I can if you would like.


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

thanks for your help sometimes i have a reading comprehension problem so i tend to ask alot of questions and get frustrated when i think my point is clear to me!



andersley said:


> Yes, at the beginning of the curve start with very thin shim and gradually increase the thickness as you head further into the curve, up to whatever maximum needed, then do the same as you exit the curve.
> 
> This ensures a smooth transition from flat to cant instead of a sudden change.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## britblad (Jan 2, 2012)

i think i get the idea now but thx for the offer im gona set it up and run the train thru a few times and see if i like it and go from there thanks again!



joed2323 said:


> Britbrad- if you can do some testing before you secure the track permanently would be ideal.
> 
> This way you can get a feel for what thickness works well in your situation. It doesn't take too much to get the track elevated.
> 
> Their is also some good YouTube videos on super elevation, sorry I can't post a link to the video I'm at work right now, give me a few hours and I can if you would like.


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