# MTH Hudson stuck will not move



## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

Recently got a train 

http://mthtrains.com/content/30-1461-1

Hello BN to forum just got back into trains and having trouble. Got a used train off ebay and it is extremely nice looking (ironically got sent the wrong train that is anther story)

4-6-4 Hudson Steam Engine w/Proto-Sound 2.0 - New York Central
Cab No. 5216
Product Number: 30-1461-1
looks like they came out in the 2007 time frame vintage.

Trying to run on son's Lionel EZ track 40"x60" layout with Lionel CW 80 Watt transformer conventional. The transformer has a Direction, Bell and Whistle button. 
Issue:
- Train stays in nuetral no matter what we do up and down on lever. direction button, tried to use the MTH commands for reset, get out of neutral, etc. AS soon as we power the train up the horn/whistle is stuck on, however we can hit the bell and it will ring at sametime. Read the manual many times and I am confused as what to do to get this thing moving tried to enter the commands and can not seem to get it to work. Please note lights are working on the engine when attatched to the tender.
-Commands will not work. but some sounds would (would get 2 whistles when starting to enter the commands, but the 2 whistles would be random and not be in sink with the commands being entered. Many times the 2 whistles would happen in the middle of entering the command.
-charged the battery at 11.6Vac for 8 hrs. After this no change in any functions. Netted the same results.
-Took tender apart and battery pack is rated 2.4V got 2.62V on Fluke meter. I left the battery disconnected for 5-10 min hoping perhaps a reset would occur if needed.
- Please note that before prior and post after 8 hrs 11.6 Vac charge on track. It would go through a shutdown (sound keeps going on) after all power is off to train. 

I am new to Proto-Sound 2.0. My son's Lionel with Rail Sound runs and works all old trains function and worked perfectly on this same track and transformer.
What am I doing wrong ? Anyone have same or similar issues or ideas? Is there another way to check the battery ? what reccomendations are there to get this going ? Do I need MTH system to run this train ?


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

I think you need the MTH DCS system to run that on the same line as the Lionel TMCC, that your son is . They can be used together, however. 
Gunrunnerjohn is the man to talk to.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

We do NOT have Lionel TMCC. The transformer is pretty basic one from his starter set Lionel CW 80. All function it has is speed lever, Bell, Whistle and Direction button it is made to run ONE track. Do you think the Lionel CW-80 transformer is the issue ?


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## SeaTroller (Feb 2, 2013)

Try this link has all control button sequences, might be able to run in conventional mode. Wish you luck!!

http://www.protosound2.com/protosound2/proto2_op_instr.htm


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## rdmtgm (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi bowtieman, welcome to the site. I think I talked to you through e-bay and was wondering how you made out with the 1110. I don't have any modern stuff so I cant be any help with the hudson but I am sure somebody here will be able to.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

What is the color of the battery? I used a 9 volt battery just to get motion and id the battery as the problem. Mine was white. See this thread


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

rdmtgm said:


> Hi bowtieman, welcome to the site. I think I talked to you through e-bay and was wondering how you made out with the 1110. I don't have any modern stuff so I cant be any help with the hudson but I am sure somebody here will be able to.


Hi nice to hear from you, Son and I took it completely apart and cleaned everything. I think the issue is putting it together and getting the spring and an arm line up right. It was have to we will get some new parts for it. We got it to go in reverse and stay in reverse with NO forward, but it was not jumping back and forth like before. It sure ran well in reverse not missing a beat : ) We are going to remove the wheels again tonight and try it again when he is done with his homework. I will keep you posted and thanks for asking. Good to hear from you and THANK YOU for pointing me to this Forum. If it was NOT for you I would not be here. 
I actually fround part of a manual an ideas searching this forum on how to fix the 1110.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

T-Man said:


> What is the color of the battery? I used a 9 volt battery just to get motion and id the battery as the problem. Mine was white. See this thread


It does NOT have a 9V it is a two cell Blue 2.4Vdc battery. You are correct most everything I see on net point to 9V NiCad

It is blue 
MTH 50-1024 Proto-Sound 2.4V NiCad Replacement Battery


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

SeaTroller said:


> Try this link has all control button sequences, might be able to run in conventional mode. Wish you luck!!
> 
> http://www.protosound2.com/protosound2/proto2_op_instr.htm


Do these trains have issues running or setting up in conventional. Thanks for the manual this is what I was using before trying to reset the train. I tried the un couple one a couple times just to see if I can get it to do anything. I failed : ( 
I will give it some more tried to night. I talked to the seller this morning and he gave some reccomendations. 

Do these trains have lots of issues and brake downs. They need to make these to run in no sound mode to and work like the old trains. (bypass all the electronic bells and whistles) 

Thanks again


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I think t man replaced the rechargeable one with a nine volt to see if the battery was the problem. Not sure.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

sjm9911 said:


> I think t man replaced the rechargeable one with a nine volt to see if the battery was the problem. Not sure.


Ok Not sure if that is OK given a 2.4 Vdc rating on original and the unique connector provided by original. 
In searches I assume there was a Proto-Sound with 2.0 solution that used an 8.4 batt with the same connectors as a 9V dc ALK batt. 
I did not look for 2 batteries in there 2.4V and 8.4V am I missing something here ? I assume it has one battery. 
Did Proto-Sound 2.0 have a 2.4 V and 8.4V batt independent solutions ? I was thinking of trying to rig up two AA ALK batt which would give me about 3V and trying it. 

The battery issue baffles me because I get shut down sounds when the engine is OFF. When the rails are at 0V the shut down sounds begin and last for about 5-10 seconds. 
I assume that whole shut down deal is on battery Only.


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

I honestly don't know much about these, but did you read the thread he linked! Lots of info, may or may not help. I do know those guys are good.


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

I have the proto I system. GRJ has mentioned a 2.4 volt battery. I thought you had 9 volts. It still may be the same problem.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

T-Man said:


> I have the proto I system. GRJ has mentioned a 2.4 volt battery. I thought you had 9 volts. It still may be the same problem.


I have not ruled the battery out......Did you get over 8.4V on your battery and did it continue to run the shut down sounds P/S 1 ? The delta between yours and mine is mine is P/S 2.0 and not 1.0 perhaps that is why yours is a 9 Volt and mine 2.4V
I love the BCR idea I should see what caps I have and see if I have Zener in my ebox and use it. The stuff I have is 20 yrs old old from College : ) Maybe local radio shack has parts to. I will build a BCR for sure. thanks for the input.


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## BigAl56 (Dec 14, 2011)

Older MTH engines are notorious for these problems. Lots of threads on this board about old batteries, usually the 9v type, failing to hold charge. When you hit the direction button does the engine power off and reboot? If so it's a batterey issue.

First try resetting the engine. Thats one whistle and 5 bells per these instructions... http://www.protosound2.com/protosound2/proto2_op_instr.htm

If that fails try letting the engine sit on the track and recharge for an hour or two.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Do NOT put an 8.4V battery in the locomotive with the 2.4V battery! There are two generations of the PS/2 boards, the older ones used the 8.4V battery, the newer ones used the 2.4V battery.

If the transformer reset doesn't fix it, and you've verified the battery, you probably need to find someone with the full DCS set to reset it.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Do NOT put an 8.4V battery in the locomotive with the 2.4V battery! There are two generations of the PS/2 boards, the older ones used the 8.4V battery, the newer ones used the 2.4V battery.
> 
> If the transformer reset doesn't fix it, and you've verified the battery, you probably need to find someone with the full DCS set to reset it.


Just chatted with a hobby store that I found on MTH site which is about 70 miles away. Unfortunately there are none close to me and they mentioned the resetting with the DCS setup also and stated that this is what may be needed. They can check it out. Given the circumstances I was hoping not to make the drive, but on a good note will get to check out their store. 

If the battery is disconnected do the electronics do a reset or default to something ? As mentioned when I checked and varified the 2.4V bat read 2.62V on the battery left is disconnected for some time. 

You mentioned "a Full DCS setup" Is any of this reset function present on the remote control basic track setup MTH 50-1033 DCS REMOTE COMMANDER CONTROL SET ? 

I ask as If I going to run this train it may be a good idea to check into this. 

thanks so far some good info to check up on.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

The battery sounds fine, that's the normal voltage open circuit.

There is no reset with the DCS Remote Commander, you need either the DCS Commander (note no remote), or the full DCS system with the TIU and remote.

If you would like to take the trouble, you can take the board package out of the tender and ship it to me and I'll test them and reset them if necessary. Saves you 140 miles of driving. You can also just take the tender shell off (heavy), and send the tender frame, easier than removing the boards.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

Just check email and got this response from MTH 
"Thank you for contacting MTH Electric Trains. We appreciate
your interest in our products. Unfortunately the Lionel CW-80 is not
compatible with MTH ProtoSound 2.0 engines. This transformer puts
out an erratic sine wave that interferes with the ProtoSound 2.0
commands. Occasionally engines will run fine with the CW-80 but at
other times the engine may not run at all, may have a constant (or
no) bell or whistle or various features may be inoperable.
Most Lionel transformers are compatible with ProtoSound 2.0; the
CW-80 is the exception. For a full listing of compatible
transformers please see the link below. Please let me know if you
have any other questions." 


http://www.mth-railking.com/service...ing/Track_Transformer/Transformers/aclist.jpg 

The Lionel CW-80 may be the problem : ( 
Anyone else have this issue or heard of this ? 
There may be nothing wrong with this engine at all, The link sent did not give me the list transformers that would work I have other transformers I will try later tonight. unfortunately all I have is Lionel stuff. WOW this is getting interesting.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, the CW-80 is not a recommended transformer, but it normally results in erratic behavior, not one solid symptom. I doubt that's the cause.


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## Big Mike (Dec 2, 2011)

bowtieman427 said:


> Just check email and got this response from MTH
> "Thank you for contacting MTH Electric Trains. We appreciate
> your interest in our products. Unfortunately the Lionel CW-80 is not
> compatible with MTH ProtoSound 2.0 engines. This transformer puts
> ...


 

yes I have heard of the cw80 causing these problems, and started to say so ,but sense so many others know more about transformers then me, I decided to stay out of it.
just my opinion, but I would try another transformer first before I did anything else..........Mike


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

If another transformer is handy, I can't disagree with Mike, it is an easy check.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

Lionel RW-110 and bang she started to roll. WOW cool train. Smoke unit it NOT working but it runs nice and sounds cool. 

Looks like the Lionel CW-80 was the issue to get this going. 
I will be talking tothe seller today. 
Any ideas on fixing smoke unit or ballpark what it costs to fix ?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Did you check and make sure the smoke switch is on? Did you put about 20 drops of fluid in and gently blow down the stack?


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

Yes 15-20 drops are in the unit and smoke unit it on in the tender. This time I blew through it while moving and smoke comes out, but ONLY when I blow into the stack while it is moving on the tracks. I notice some smoke around the stack but not flowing out. 
It is NOT puffing out. I would think there is a bellow unit.

If unit is OK I do NOT want to burn it up.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

It's actually fan driven smoke, the PS/2 smoke units are pretty much standard across the whole product line.

It sounds like the fan is not running. That can be in the locomotive, the tether, or the boards in the tender. First step would be to check the tether plug is secure between the locomotive and the tender. Next, take the shell off and make sure the smoke unit motor plug is connected. You can also test the smoke unit motor by unplugging the plug and using a 9V battery momentarily on it, you should hear it run if it's OK. Obviously, when you're in the locomotive, you should check for any pinched wires.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Bowtieman,

I had a similar problem with my fan driven unit. I checked all the points GunrunnerJohn suggested. They all checked out except the direct 9volt test. Then I knew it was a motor problem. I finally removed the fan and impeller and found the motor was saturated in smoke fluid. I forced the excess liquid out with canned air, sprayed contact cleaner to flush any remaining smoke fluid residue and dry it out and it started running again. Hope yours is an easy fix.


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## enginEErjon (Nov 16, 2013)

Patrick1544 said:


> Bowtieman,
> 
> I had a similar problem with my fan driven unit. I checked all the points GunrunnerJohn suggested. They all checked out except the direct 9volt test. Then I knew it was a motor problem. I finally removed the fan and impeller and found the motor was saturated in smoke fluid. I forced the excess liquid out with canned air, sprayed contact cleaner to flush any remaining smoke fluid residue and dry it out and it started running again. Hope yours is an easy fix.


Great suggestion. One additional point to add is that any motor that is cleaned with contact cleaner will need to be re-oiled. A single drop at each end of the motor, just on top of the bearing/bushing will suffice.

Contact cleaner does has some minor lubrication in the fluid, but that was designed for a manual TV tuner knob (maybe 200 rotations per lifetime), but a motor will have 200 rotations in a few minutes.


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

enginEErjon said:


> Great suggestion. One additional point to add is that any motor that is cleaned with contact cleaner will need to be re-oiled. A single drop at each end of the motor, just on top of the bearing/bushing will suffice.
> 
> Contact cleaner does has some minor lubrication in the fluid, but that was designed for a manual TV tuner knob (maybe 200 rotations per lifetime), but a motor will have 200 rotations in a few minutes.


Totally agree. Add a drop of oil on each shaft end to re-lubricate the motor.


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## bowtieman427 (Jan 8, 2014)

Ok this may seem crazy. Took the body off the engine and tender, Took it the smoke unit all apart, detached the wires checked wires did not find any issues with ohm meter. Hit the motor with 9V battery a couple times and it ran great. Put all back together put on the track hooked it up to see it dynamically and puff puff smoke came out. Put the body back on and it is puffing away as we speak running great. I do NOT understand this engine at all. First a transformer issue next a smoke issue and I still do not know what was wrong makes no sense to me. 

Thank you everyone for your help and the many tips an advice. I learned a lot and that is what it is all about.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Locomotive is running, smoke is coming out, life is good!


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Locomotive is running, smoke is coming out, life is good!



Life is good................for now. 
There is always tomorrow's problem with the new fanged electronics. . :smokin:


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't be badmouthing modern electronics! I am making enough money for my new Lionel Vision Line Big Boy pre-order by fixing this stuff!


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## Patrick1544 (Apr 27, 2013)

Glad your issue is resolved and you're up and running!


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