# eBay Curiosity or Suspicion



## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

I recently found a boxcar I really, really wanted on eBay. The seller started it at auction for around $25. There were only a couple bids until the last five minutes, and it was up to $60 with two minutes left.

With 30 seconds left, I slammed a bid in at $300 figuring it would definitely surpass any last second bids. With five seconds left, I was winning at $65 and then I was stunned when the item sold for exactly $5 more than my high bid, $305.

I was naturally disappointed but the actual selling price was beyond my “want it/buy it threshold”, so I just forgot about it.

A few hours later, I was informed that I had a second chance offer. It said the winning bidder apparently could not complete the auction and that it was offered to me at the $300 price, my last bid.

The seller has another of the same car for auction now. Maybe the seller had another to sell to me? The whole process seems kind of fishy to me. I am not saying it was a shill bid, but I don’t know. It is the first time I encountered this…

Tom


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## MohawkMike (Jan 29, 2018)

I can't think of any box car without special abilities, ie., track cleaning that is worth that much money.....


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## T-Man (May 16, 2008)

That is a big jump. I once had a bidder do three quick bids in the end but still I won. Always wondered if it was a bump up on purpose.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

I would pass. Most likely it will get relisted. You might get another chance but if the bidding takes off again maybe it is a scam. There are some cars that will fetch numbers much higher than that though.

Pete


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## Lehigh74 (Sep 25, 2015)

I just did an advanced search for boxcars priced between $222 and $333. I was kind of surprised that 644 listings came up. I can't imagine paying that much for anything except a loco.
What makes this one so special Tom? What is it?


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## dennytodd2 (Oct 8, 2021)

T-Man said:


> That is a big jump. I once had a bidder do three quick bids in the end but still I won. Always wondered if it was a bump up on purpose.


There is definitely Fungus amoungus.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Krieglok said:


> I recently found a boxcar I really, really wanted on eBay. The seller started it at auction for around $25. There were only a couple bids until the last five minutes, and it was up to $60 with two minutes left.
> 
> With 30 seconds left, I slammed a bid in at $300 figuring it would definitely surpass any last second bids. With five seconds left, I was winning at $65 and then I was stunned when the item sold for exactly $5 more than my high bid, $305.
> 
> ...


Something fishy there, e bay don't care, they are making money.
Good for you that the last bid was higher, if it was $299 you would be the proud new owner.
I think I was caught once like that slamming down a the last second, but I won it. No where near $300 but I paid to much for it that way.
No more last second bids for me. I have a max cutoff set now.
If I don't get it, oh well.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> I just did an advanced search for boxcars priced between $222 and $333. I was kind of surprised that 644 listings came up. I can't imagine paying that much for anything except a loco.
> What makes this one so special Tom? What is it?


There are bunch of 6464 listings on the TCA site priced at 500 bucks and above. The highest I have witnessed at York was a solid shield Rutland in a glass case and a $7000 price tag. I think he was just trying to get a jump on ebay prices. Shortly after Lionel released a modern repro of the same car along with a red lettered 6464-1 WP for 60 bucks for the pair,
more my speed.

Pete


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Yeah, everyone pretty much confirms what I was thinking. The high bid was an attempt to “guarantee “ a win around the $60 mark. I wasn’t expecting a large jump at the end.




MohawkMike said:


> I can't think of any box car without special abilities, ie., track cleaning that is worth that much money.....


Thanks. That maybe a viable opinion, but it really wasn’t what I was discussing. Money isnt really an issue for me but the way the final amount of the winning bid was arrived at…

Tom


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## timlange3 (Jan 16, 2013)

Well you set a maximum of $300 so it must be worth it to you. Or you can pass on this 'deal' and see if the second car comes up for bidding and try to get it then.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

I’ve saw this scenario unfold many times on lots of auction sites. 

Unfortunate.


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## GTW son (12 mo ago)

I've lost auctions on eBay like this.
I wouldn't put it past some manipulation by unscrupulous sellers.
Nuff said.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

It’s a scam. No box car is worth $300. Next time bid $500. Watch someone win at $510.


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## DonW (Mar 25, 2012)

Shouldn't you get it for $65 if the deadbeat was the one who drove it up from that point or were there other bids besides the person who backed out. I have had this very scenario on several items in recent years and I always walk away as it just seems fishy to me.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

I think so too. Shill bidder to bump the price and then when the seller wins it, offers it to you at your highest bid before the win.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

What's to prevent a seller from asking a friend to bid, thus driving up the price. And if the friends bid wins the item, the seller simply pretends his friend paid for it.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies. The comments all seem to support my suspicions. I am gonna wait out the next auction and see how it plays out. In the meantime, I let the item go. Curious if the second chance gets handed down to the next highest bidder…

Tom


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Madman said:


> What's to prevent a seller from asking a friend to bid, thus driving up the price. And if the friends bid wins the item, the seller simply pretends his friend paid for it.


Not that easy. The payment must go through eBay. Then the seller is on the hook for eBay fees and sales tax on the purchase price.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It’s a scam…..


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## Kelpieflyer (Jan 9, 2012)

I buy very little from ebay because I only bid what I think it's worth including shipping. Once at a train show I overheard a couple of sellers say that they have friends bid on their stuff just to drive up the price. If it doesn't work out, the simply relist the item.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You're being scammed! They saw your huge bid and saw a change to take you to the cleaners.


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## RedJimmy1955 (Aug 23, 2021)

OK..Kreiglok.......I WILL SAY IT'S A SHILL BID! using caps to get attention, and here's why..... I met a guy at my first York (2012 +/-) who told me that's how he and a buddy get more $$ using ebay. They will up the bid and if the buddy wins....they merely exchange money after paying through ebay....then they relist!!
And I've had an experience/ example similar to yours......I was bidding on a passenger dome car before my first York. Just minutes before the closing "bell" it went from $135.00 to $385.00! The $385.00 won.....
I didnt take the bait.....I knew my first York was coming up, so I waited......I went into the purple hall and ther on a far table were THREE, priced at $75.00, ALL DAY LONG!
On ebay, I usually give a realistic counter offer with any reasonable evidence that I can find. If I get chewed out, so be it...my money is still in da bank!!


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Yes. Buyers can cancel a purchase on a Ebay auction. That’s how they get around the fees when they shill.

I usually don’t do auctions on eBay , just buy now. I am going to keep an eye on the seller and see if there are any further shenanigans…

I passed on the offer and the item was relisted. Then it disappeared. 

Tom


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## Brendan (May 18, 2013)

In this case wouldn't the scam work better if they bid just under so the OP won?


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

You can't bid just under, you don't know what the other user's maximum bid is. So they bid really high to force the maximum amount from the real mark, then offer the second chance purchase at the inflated price.


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## Big Ed (Jun 16, 2009)

Krieglok said:


> Yeah, everyone pretty much confirms what I was thinking. The high bid was an attempt to “guarantee “ a win around the $60 mark. I wasn’t expecting a large jump at the end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So are you saying that the box car was worth that much? ?
I don't think I would ever pay that much for any box car, maybe if it was with gold. 

Sellers like that, they should weed out.
I just put a max on what I am willing to pay as a buy it now.
If I don't win......Oh well. 😎


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Big Ed said:


> So are you saying that the box car was worth that much? ?
> I don't think I would ever pay that much for any box car, maybe if it was with gold.
> 
> Sellers like that, they should weed out.
> ...


No. The car isn’t worth that much. I bid super high as I figured anyone else would just bid around $70 for it. I “nuked” it, figuring on a much lesser price. If the seller hadn’t had a sniper/shill, it wouldn’t have been any where near the final price.

It is a technique that has won many auctions for me at decent prices. This time, I ran afoul of a less than reputable dealer. I wasn’t snared into anything. The second chance offer was declined…

Tom


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Kelpieflyer said:


> I buy very little from ebay because I only bid what I think it's worth including shipping. Once at a train show I overheard a couple of sellers say that they have friends bid on their stuff just to drive up the price. If it doesn't work out, the simply relist the item.


Generally agree with that. In other cases, dealers have several accounts or control over accounts. Most auctions including vehicle auctions- come down to 2 to 3 active bidders.


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## Brendan (May 18, 2013)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> You can't bid just under, you don't know what the other user's maximum bid is. So they bid really high to force the maximum amount from the real mark, then offer the second chance purchase at the inflated price.


I didn't they don't see them; makes sense, now.


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

Kelpieflyer said:


> I buy very little from ebay because I only bid what I think it's worth including shipping. Once at a train show I overheard a couple of sellers say that they have friends bid on their stuff just to drive up the price. If it doesn't work out, the simply relist the item.


At the last train meet I attended, the seller told me that he posts the same items on Ebay at higher prices than what he is asking for at train meets.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

Madman said:


> At the last train meet I attended, the seller told me that he posts the same items on Ebay at higher prices than what he is asking for at train meets.


Not unexpected. He doesn't have to pay eBay fees and supply shipping materials, added sales tax or have eBay report income


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## NewYork Northern RR (Dec 15, 2016)

I just put a max on what I am willing to pay as a buy it now.
If I don't win......Oh well. 😎
[/QUOTE]

I used to do that too, but then I had one seller who bid the item up to and above my max bid then retracted the bid just before the auction ended and then had me pay my max bid. The thing is I was the only person who bid on the item so if he had not done that I would have won it for a lot less. Now while I will agree the max amount I put in would be the max amount I would be willing to pay so I should have no complaints, but I don't expect to give money away to someone either just because he isn't getting what he thinks he should get. Lesson learned. I don't do that anymore. I now snipe my max bid at the end of the auction, if I win great if I don't , then it wasn't meant to be.


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## Desperado (Mar 14, 2021)

There are so many threads regarding ebay and all the bad stuff that can (and does) happen. I am sure that most of you know this; but when looking at an item you have to ask yourself a few things. How is the seller's score? Read their reviews. Is the item a "must have" or just a nice to have? Can you get it anywhere else (i.e. local shop) - and at what price? Are the shipping fees crazy high? 

So there is definitely some thought going into a bud or a purchase. I have not had bad luck (probably just jinxed myself). I have had the experience of someone driving up the auction bidding. But it reached a point where I was not willing to keep "playing" and perhaps (perhaps) I skunked them by making them pay a higher price. The item now has become my "white whale" and I have never seen it anywhere again. (MTH Lackawanna Railroad tank car in case anyone is interested). It started at $45 and eventually went for over $90 (which is where I quite bidding). 

I think ultimately it comes down to your motivation. How bad do you want the item? Are you willing to put up with all the silliness to get it? If not, then add it to your "white whale" list and watch for it at your local shop or the next show - kind of makes the eventual purchase that much sweeter.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Sniping removes most all the drama. Just bid your price at the last second. If the shill or anyone else has a posted a very high overbid, you lose. No big deal. If someone is watching only to overbid you they don’t have time to place that bid.
I used to think the Stouts auction prices were high considering the high buyers premium but in many cases with the stratospheric ebay numbers, you can find better deals at Stouts.

Pete


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Norton said:


> …
> I used to think the Stouts auction prices were high considering the high buyers premium but in many cases with the stratospheric ebay numbers, you can find better deals at Stouts.
> 
> Pete


Add 7% IN sales tax + shipping&handling ($43 alone on my last single item, more depending on your location) and THEN the premium.

My $90 item total? $158.

Quit buying there. Same story at most auction houses. 

They have beautiful lots, most pristine. If it’s a “white unicorn“ I may make an exception. 

Best way to find stuff-ask sellers for an item you’re looking for when buying something else they have for sale. Scored great pieces that way, at well below eBay / auction prices.


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## Firewood (Nov 5, 2015)

I gave up on Ebay years ago - I've found better deals on new discount retail than the same hyper-inflated items on Ebay. 
FW


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## RedJimmy1955 (Aug 23, 2021)

Yeah...and watch out for Cabin Fever Auctions....for reasons similar as 886TA355Sr mentioned. Had a RailKing car go fron $80.00..again, JUST a 15 inch passenger car,
up to $115.00! Probably that's the first and last time I'll buy from them. Once Covid really settles down, I'll be a frequent Train Show shopper/price negotiator.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

86TA355SR said:


> Add 7% IN sales tax + shipping&handling ($43 alone on my last single item, more depending on your location) and THEN the premium.
> 
> My $90 item total? $158.
> 
> ...


If you look at the sold prices at their last auction you will see many items went far below ebay or manufacturers prices. Some went way over the top but many were surprisingly low, IMO. 8 Z4000s in boxes, sold one at a time went for average 400 bucks bid, some lower. Shipping and premium likely made the cost around 500 bucks. $1500 3rd Rail brass engines sold for under 600 bucks. All depends on your interests. I got a TMCC Lionel Mogul virtually unrun, best of the breed, for 290 bucks shipped to my door.

Pete


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

There was some discussion of Model Train Depot, a few months back. I had a gentleman ask me if I would post the item I was selling on Evilbay, on MTD. He said it would save a few pennies. I did, he bought it, I paid less fees than Evilbay.


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## 86TA355SR (Feb 27, 2015)

Norton said:


> …. $1500 3rd Rail brass engines sold for under 600 bucks. All depends on your interests. I got a TMCC Lionel Mogul virtually unrun, best of the breed, for 290 bucks shipped to my door.
> 
> Pete


Yep, I watched the last auction, the 3rd Rail stuff was a great deal for the most part.


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## Trainfanforlife (11 mo ago)

The winning bidder bailed is all that happened. I have not only had this happen a couple times as the buyer but it also happened to me a couple of times as a seller. I am not sure that you are obligated to purchase it but it’s honestly more common that folks realize on these types sights, (especially eBay).


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I buy from Cabin Fever. So far I like their auctions. Look, they start out at $1. eBay is mostly just a greedy dealers on line store, the old brick and mortar store of 30 years ago. 

My issue with Cabin Fever are the 3 car lots. There might be one of 3 I want. When I get the items I have to throw 2 on eBay to recoup some of my money.

What is Stouts?


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> I buy from Cabin Fever. So far I like their auctions. Look, they start out at $1. eBay is mostly just a greedy dealers on line store, the old brick and mortar store of 30 years ago.
> 
> My issue with Cabin Fever are the 3 car lots. There might be one of 3 I want. When I get the items I have to throw 2 on eBay to recoup some of my money.
> 
> What is Stouts?











Event Information






www.stoutauctions.com





You can look at upcomming as well as past auctions. If you decide to participate you have to register at their site and also register for each auction. The latter takes some time to get approved so you don’t want to wait until the last minute. Sort of like a real auction where you sign up at the door. Premium varies depending on how you pay. Best deal is if you can actually attend.

Pete


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## lou1985 (Oct 24, 2019)

86TA355SR said:


> Yep, I watched the last auction, the 3rd Rail stuff was a great deal for the most part.


I ended up getting a 3rd Rail SP MT-4 in that Stout auction this past Thursday for cheaper than I've ever seen one for sale anywhere, even with the fee and shipping. I've never seen one that cheap on eBay.

Between the crazy high asking prices, selling prices, taxes, and shipping fees it's hard to get a bargain. I've gotten better deals the past couple months at Cabin Fever and Stout, even with the fees, than I've seen anything sell for on eBay in the past few years.

There are bargains to be had on semi scale stuff on eBay. The market is flooded with it. The scale stuff is what is really through the roof price wise right now. Take the bargains where you can find them.


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## gunrunnerjohn (Nov 10, 2010)

Truthfully, I have so much stuff that I can afford to patiently wait until a good deal comes along in whatever venue they show up in.


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## Yellowstone Special (Jun 23, 2015)

With a 10 year old layout and all of the engines and rolling stock I'll ever need, I still look at eBay once in awhile for deals. I picked up a NIB Lionel Mobilgas orange tank car with sprung metal trucks a few days ago for under $20.00. I think that with the sky-high prices of everything, eBay is a good alternative for a lot less money than what's offered in the latest catalogs.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

Norton said:


> Event Information
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Pete. More and more I like to look at the auction houses like Cabin Fever and Stout versus ebay. These are true auctions where ebay is hardly a shell of what it was. That doesn't mean prices at the last Stout auction I was browsing were not a bit high on some items. But that's true market pricing.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Bryan Moran said:


> Thanks Pete. More and more I like to look at the auction houses like Cabin Fever and Stout versus ebay. These are true auctions where ebay is hardly a shell of what it was. That doesn't mean prices at the last Stout auction I was browsing were not a bit high on some items. But that's true market pricing.


The 3rd Rail E units and some passenger cars went for big bucks. Not a good omen for me as I am looking for an early E7 set. Steam was very reasonable though as Lou pointed out.

Pete


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## mrmustang1933 (Mar 30, 2015)

Lehigh74 said:


> I just did an advanced search for boxcars priced between $222 and $333. I was kind of surprised that 644 listings came up. I can't imagine paying that much for anything except a loco.
> What makes this one so special Tom? What is it?


The prices they want for locos today... WOW... $500 plus for a steamer... They are really cool... But not that cool... $50 for a box car... $300 for a diesel... Like I stated... Way cool but not that cool...


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## mrmustang1933 (Mar 30, 2015)

gunrunnerjohn said:


> Truthfully, I have so much stuff that I can afford to patiently wait until a good deal comes along in whatever venue they show up in.


I do the same... As I have a lot of stuff... I but a lot off of Ebay also... Selectively...As not all stuff on Ebay is a good deal... You have to shop around and if the price is to high... Move on... An in time you will find the same for cheaper... I have done this many times... THANX


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## mrmustang1933 (Mar 30, 2015)

One GREAT thing about Ebay is... You can find everything under the sun there... Without Ebay you would never realize that they make so much stuff...


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## C.Vigs (Jul 30, 2015)

Just had the same series of events happen to me - in the last few seconds of an auction I was outbid by a nominal amount (a dollar or two) indicating only one person outbid me. A few days later I got an email offering the item to me at my max offer price, as opposed to the (much lower) price the item was at before I was outbid. 

It happens often enough that I can't believe there are this many people not paying their auction bills - some sellers have to be creating shill accounts to milk the most out of their auction. I refuse second chance offers - if it gets relisted I may bid again.

~Chris


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

When that happens, it’s a scam, as has been said….


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## fcabarle (May 21, 2021)

Millstonemike said:


> Not that easy. The payment must go through eBay. Then the seller is on the hook for eBay fees and sales tax on the purchase price.


If the seller sells over $1,000 on Ebay he can look forward to receiving a 1099; yeah, that federal taxes on top of the Ebay fees.


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## xcessivetrains (Dec 29, 2021)

I was bidding on a Trolley, got outbid the last 10 seconds. Bidded on a second one, same thing at the last second, bid on a third, a couple days later, same thing happened. Then I did a little checking into it. Same seller, and same winning bidder. Coincidence???
NOPE!!!!!


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

It’s a scam….repeat….


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## mrmustang1933 (Mar 30, 2015)

Your best protection... NEVER over bid for anything unless you don't care about price... And always remember that another one will come along... I have bought about 70% of my train stuff on Ebay... Also remember that a lot of time you can find new train stuff off of Ebay cheaper...


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## Ebby1600 (11 mo ago)

Krieglok said:


> I recently found a boxcar I really, really wanted on eBay. The seller started it at auction for around $25. There were only a couple bids until the last five minutes, and it was up to $60 with two minutes left.
> 
> With 30 seconds left, I slammed a bid in at $300 figuring it would definitely surpass any last second bids. With five seconds left, I was winning at $65 and then I was stunned when the item sold for exactly $5 more than my high bid, $305.
> 
> ...


I believe that is a common tactic on Ebay. I had a similar experience trying to purchase a vintage motorcycle. I put a high bid in towards the end and was beaten by a slightly higher bid. Next day seller informed me the winner backed out and I could have the bike. I declined and then checked the “buyer” who backed out and it was the only bid they ever made on Ebay.


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## Millstonemike (Aug 9, 2018)

xcessivetrains said:


> ...Then I did a little checking into it. Same seller, and same winning bidder. Coincidence???
> NOPE!!!!!


How do you know it's the same winning bidder? When I'm bidding, eBay doesn't disclose a member to the other bidders. It's just a code assigned to that member for that auction. Or is it the same code for that member across auctions?


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

WOWWEE people! I haven't seen this many conspiracy theorists, paranoids, sour grapers, and gossips since I accidentally fell into the who killed Marilyn Monroe forum. You can take off your tin foil hats now, the black helicopters are gone.
If you really want the best chance to win auctions on Ebay you would do your homework and learn exactly how it works and what can you do to maximize the odds in your favor, like I did. If you buy N scale stuff and have been outbid in the last couple seconds of an auction by a buyer out of nowhere, it's a good chance that buyer that "stole" it was ME! I win about 80 - 90% of the auctions I want, and I don't deal under the table with the sellers either. Ebay does a pretty good job of weeding out the shill bidders to the point they are pretty rare. It's just that people who want the good deals are bidding wisely, rather than emotionally do the research, and use the available tools.
How do I do it? I could write a few page article on that, but then a lot more people who are too lazy to do the research would use my methods against me, and I would lose my advantage. But since we are brothers in arms here I will give you a major head start, but DON"T blast it all over the internet or it will be the last time I help anyone like this! 
MAJOR CLUE #1: google auction sniping aps. Now let's see who picks up the ball and runs with it and who just wants to hear themselves bitc--- er... gripe about who is out to get them.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

If they added an additional 15 minutes to the auction after each bid at the end it would stop that crap.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

I don't understand how that would change anything, just make the auction 15 minutes longer


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> If they added an additional 15 minutes to the auction after each bid at the end it would stop that crap.


But it’s gotta end sometime…..don’t know how that would solve the scamming….


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

It would allow someone who is bidding normally to place another bid instead of being sniped at the end of the auction. Sure, that placed bid might be sniped too, but the bidder could still place another until he either runs out of money or he decides the overinflated price isn't worth it. Or the sniper has reached the max amount that was set in the app.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

That just merely extends the scam….


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

We're talking about bid snipers, not scammers here. They could be one and the same, but since it was brought up, sniping bids at the very end of the auction using an automated means is likely a legitimate bidder (if you could call it that) that wants an item for themselves rather than a seller trying shill up the bidding for their own benefit.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Ok, so it merely extends the sniper bids then….same thing….


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Gun Boards uses that system. It works well. If there is a bid in the last five minutes, the auction is extended. It works better for the seller and lessens the sniping…

Tom


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## BobT (Mar 27, 2021)

I use Esnipe on the bay very successfully. Enter the item, my max price, set my bid for a few seconds before auction ends, and walk away. I often win by a couple bucks, or I don't. But I never go over my self-imposed limit. All good.


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## Bryan Moran (Jan 15, 2017)

I lose a lot of auctions because I simply bid what I can afford or believe the item is worth. That's my issue with modern day ebay and other auction sites is the "gotta have it" mentality. I don't get involved in auctions to pay more than list, or market conditions. I always thought auctions - real auctions - were about selling something that was no longer necessarily of value to ONE person - the widow or widower or family of - for SOMETHING (Cash) to a new owner that can use it, enjoy it but not necessarily wants to pay a premium. 

Don't bidders/buyers want to feel like they got a good deal? I do. So when I bid on a lot of a Cabin Fever Auction and win, I think hhhmm, I got a good deal on that. I recently won 3 Piggyback trailers in MTH Rail King for $61 plus shipping which was about $25 more. So for $90 or so, I dollar cost averaged those Piggybacks at $30 each. Not bad. For me, for the seller and for Cabin Fever. 

In that same auction I also won one of those MTH Gas Stations in Phillips 66. I have lost on probably 25 of those from Cabin Fever auctions in the last 5 months - because I stuck to what I felt was a fair price. I finally won one for about $70 plus premium and shipping. 

I hate ebays trend toward Buy It Now but at least you don't get shill bidding.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

MichaelE said:


> If they added an additional 15 minutes to the auction after each bid at the end it would stop that crap.


When Trainz started doing auctions on their website, thats how theirs worked. If you bid in the last ten minutes, ten more minutes were added to auction to let someone post a higher bid. It was much more like a real auction. That was in the good old days when start prices were low. Now they have gotten as greedy as most all the other sellers.

Pete


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

scenicsRme said:


> WOWWEE people! I haven't seen this many conspiracy theorists, paranoids, sour grapers, and gossips since I accidentally fell into the who killed Marilyn Monroe forum. You can take off your tin foil hats now, the black helicopters are gone.
> If you really want the best chance to win auctions on Ebay you would do your homework and learn exactly how it works and what can you do to maximize the odds in your favor, like I did. If you buy N scale stuff and have been outbid in the last couple seconds of an auction by a buyer out of nowhere, it's a good chance that buyer that "stole" it was ME! I win about 80 - 90% of the auctions I want, and I don't deal under the table with the sellers either. Ebay does a pretty good job of weeding out the shill bidders to the point they are pretty rare. It's just that people who want the good deals are bidding wisely, rather than emotionally do the research, and use the available tools.
> How do I do it? I could write a few page article on that, but then a lot more people who are too lazy to do the research would use my methods against me, and I would lose my advantage. But since we are brothers in arms here I will give you a major head start, but DON"T blast it all over the internet or it will be the last time I help anyone like this!
> MAJOR CLUE #1: google auction sniping aps. Now let's see who picks up the ball and runs with it and who just wants to hear themselves bitc--- er... gripe about who is out to get them.


What?!?! Sniping apps? What are those?  Thank you for bringing the tablets down from the mountain!
Seriously though, ebay does NOT do a good job of weeding out shill bidders. Nope. I do agree that shill bidding is _relatively _rare in the train hobby.


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

Gun Broker still does it this way. More of a 'gentleman's auction' than a 'let's see how I can screw you right at the end' auction.


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

Old_Hobo said:


> Ok, so it merely extends the sniper bids then….same thing….


No. Someone trying to snipe in the last second merely adds another 10 minutes to auction. It eliminates sniping. 
For the auction to end it takes ten minutes without any bids.

Pete


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

So it could go on indefinitely…..theoretically speaking, of course…..?


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## Norton (Nov 5, 2015)

As long as there are at least two interested. I was involved in a couple of these. Since sniping doesn’t help and higher bids show up right away you can bid it up immediately rather than wait until the last second. It was rare to see an auction last more than 20-30 minutes after the scheduled end time.

Pete


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Old_Hobo said:


> So it could go on indefinitely…..theoretically speaking, of course…..?


As you probably already know, that’s how real “in person” auctions work. They continue as long as there is active bidding. Nothing wrong with that, just takes a bit more time…




beachhead2 said:


> What?!?! Sniping apps? What are those?  Thank you for bringing the tablets down from the mountain!
> Seriously though, ebay does NOT do a good job of weeding out shill bidders. Nope. I do agree that shill bidding is _relatively _rare in the train hobby.


You are most correct! eBay really does nothing unless you file a complaint. I liked the old eBay when you could look at buyers accounts in detail and check for shills or other serial improprieties. It led to some abuse unfortunately, so it was revamped to keep a user from exploring bidders histories…

Tom


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Krieglok said:


> As you probably already know, that’s how real “in person” auctions work. They continue as long as there is active bidding. Nothing wrong with that, just takes a bit more time…


The difference being is eBay has, and always has, had a time limit for the end of bidding, whereas real in-person auctions do not….


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Yes, we knew that. Thanks!

Tom


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## Madman (Aug 22, 2020)

Extending an auction on Evilbay doesn't make sense to me. As someone pointed out, the auction could go on indefinitely. Suppose a football game extended play time simply because one team scored more points than the opposing team ?


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

So could a farm auction or antique auction. There's no time limit on those but they don't last for eons.


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## beachhead2 (Oct 31, 2017)

MichaelE said:


> So could a farm auction or antique auction. There's no time limit on those but they don't last for eons.


Exactly. Ebay is the outlier here. All auctions could potentially last until the end of time but they don't.


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## Old_Hobo (Feb 20, 2014)

Of course not….but they don’t put a specific end time like eBay does either…..


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## MichaelE (Mar 7, 2018)

That's the whole point. If there was no time limit this crap wouldn't happen.


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## Ogilvy the Astronomer (Oct 21, 2020)

fcabarle said:


> If the seller sells over *$1,000* on Ebay he can look forward to receiving a 1099; yeah, that federal taxes on top of the Ebay fees.


That's $600. And eBay will not pay you your earning until you send them your social security number! I learned this the hard way - no more eBay sales for me.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Yes, I have a pile of stuff to sell. After using the buy/sell forums, eBay will be the last resort.

Tom


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## wvgca (Jan 21, 2013)

that's kinda weird .... i haven't had to give them my SI number, nor have i had anything deducted .. maybe because my sales last year were 8800, or maybe because i live in canada ?


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## Ogilvy the Astronomer (Oct 21, 2020)

wvgca said:


> that's kinda weird .... i haven't had to give them my SI number, nor have i had anything deducted .. maybe because my sales last year were 8800, or maybe because i live in canada ?


Unique to United States - Section 9674 of the American Rescue Plan (H.R. 1319) which reduced the threshold for Third-Party Settlement Organizations (TPSOs) from $20,000 in annual payments and 200 transactions, to $600 with no transaction count.

Thank you American politicians for cracking down on billionaires not paying their fair share.


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## Matison (12 mo ago)

Bryan Moran said:


> It’s a scam. No box car is worth $300. Next time bid $500. Watch someone win at $510.


Or get suck paying $500 for a car


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## seayakbill (Jan 16, 2016)

Bryan Moran said:


> It’s a scam. No box car is worth $300. Next time bid $500. Watch someone win at $510.


A lot of 6464 variations in excellent to pristine condition sell north of $500.


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## scenicsRme (Aug 19, 2020)

Sorry, I don't really see the issue here. If you are willing to pay more, simply bid higher. Ebay will only bid up to a winning bid for you even tho it is below your maximum. i use the sniping software so I don't have to sit at the computer and so I can beat someone who didn't bid a high enough max. Now a days, if there are last second snipe bids, ebay holds the bids and sorts out the winner, I can't freeze out someone who has bid higher than me because there wasn't enough time to process their bid if it was at least placed before the official end. There are no "do overs" for the hind sighted, sorry!


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## Steve on Cattail Creek (11 mo ago)

Krieglok said:


> Yeah, everyone pretty much confirms what I was thinking. The high bid was an attempt to “guarantee “ a win around the $60 mark. I wasn’t expecting a large jump at the end.


Yeah, I think someone was just fishing for your high bid, with the thought that you'd be grateful for the chance to get a 'bargain' second chance at your high bid. As others have said, unless it's worth $300 to you, don't bite -- I'd counteroffer at $65 instead, and see what the seller does.

BTW, you violated my cardinal eBay rule: never bid more than you'd be willing to pay, and determine that level _before_ you start bidding. eBay seems to be flooded with last-minute snipers these days, but as long as you set and live by rational limits, the worst that can happen is that you don't get the item. Remember, as soon as you decide you just _have to have_ an item, you've already lost control. Caveat emptor . . .


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## Farmboy856 (Dec 10, 2021)

Krieglok said:


> I recently found a boxcar I really, really wanted on eBay. The seller started it at auction for around $25. There were only a couple bids until the last five minutes, and it was up to $60 with two minutes left.
> 
> With 30 seconds left, I slammed a bid in at $300 figuring it would definitely surpass any last second bids. With five seconds left, I was winning at $65 and then I was stunned when the item sold for exactly $5 more than my high bid, $305.
> 
> ...


I have had this happen to me 3 times on Ebay over the last year. One can only assume that there are nefarious shenanigans afoot. The most egregious time was when I bid 80 bucks on a 681 which was solely and obviously for parts. I needed a pilot and leading truck and some other things, and the at 80 bucks I was going to be getting a good deal--- for me. I had the bid up to the last minute. With 15 seconds to go, someone zinged in a ridiculous bid of 300 bucks. I thought, "Oh well, hope the winner enjoys it."
About 20 minutes later I get an email from the seller stating that the buyer couldn't complete the sale, and basically told me it was mine now and I had to complete the sale for the 80 dollar bid. I had been willing to pay that happily prior to this, but the tone of this jerk's email ticked me off. I checked with Ebay who stated that I was under no obligation to complete the purchase under these circumstances. I then told the buyer in a nice way to pound salt. 
I got a nasty email back from him telling me that he was going to report me to Ebay and leave bad feedback, etc. I forwarded that email to Ebay, and received a fairly quick response telling me that they would take care of the situation.

I noted his sellername and occasionally search for it, and I've never seen him sell another item--- under THAT name, lol. I'm sure the jerk created a new account immediately and has probably happily screwing people over to this day.


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## TJSmith (Nov 16, 2015)

I don’t buy much on e-bay but this did happen to me once. I bid on an item and was outbid. Next day I’m contacted by the seller for a second chance. I passed.

E-bay does not seem to have much control over shill bidding. If you look at the bidding history you can sometimes spot a shill bidder.


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## Dennis461 (Jan 5, 2018)

"
Shill bidding is when a seller uses a separate account, be it one of their own, a friend or a family members or they ask someone to bid on their auction to artificially raise the price of the auction. In this case the bids were placed and then retracted once they had reached my maximum bid level.

Shill bidding is against eBay's policies and illegal in many places.

"


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## sjm9911 (Dec 20, 2012)

Or, someone could have just bid like you, lol. Put in for a 325 $ bid in a hope to secure it. You will never know. A good way around this is dont bid to high, and have 0 expectations to win it. You will get less stuff, but you will not over pay. I have contacted sellers and they took lesser bids. So, you never know what someone will sell it to you for. Have fun.


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## Krieglok (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks for all the renewed interest in the EBay situation. I never followed up on the car. I wasn’t obligated to purchase it. It seems to have never appeared again, at least on EBay.

It used to be, you could research buyers and sellers to see their past histories. EBay eliminated all that and hides account names so it makes it difficult to weed out potential scammers.

BTW, I made my own A&A cars…



























Tom


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