# Layout design Help please!



## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

http://www.sandiasoftware.com/

I really like the track plan shown here on this page. I am thinking of tearing mine down and using what I can and adding benchwork to do a layout similar to this. This will be in the garage so space isn't a concern. I want 22" R curves I to avoid the binding with long trans I am experiencing now. I have Atlas Custom line #6 turn outs ready to go thanks to Sean.   

I am wanting to loose a few lines in the yard and add a few sidings on the North part. Also I am not interested in a Roundhouse really so that can go!  :laugh: 

The only other thing I see missing is a reversing loop somewhere. 

I know I am capable of the benchwork If I can get a little help with some drawings so I know where to start.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

I think I here a call to Cabledawg!!!
He can do it for you!:thumbsup:


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Thats what I figured Sean. He is our resident Pro on this. 

So is this a little but too much for me to try on my 2nd layout?


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

Yea you can do it! Who knows you might get a little help from a long distance friend!


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## BNSF Fan (Feb 27, 2010)

concretepumper said:


> Thats what I figured Sean. He is our resident Pro on this.
> 
> So is this a little but too much for me to try on my 2nd layout?


Go for it CP, That would be one fantastic layout. Looking forward to seeing it progress.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Wow you guys were up late last night. CP, you know I'm going to help on this one. As usual, give me couple days to trace out the plan and I think I might have a few ideas for reversing loops on that layout. :thumbsup:

What are the max dimensions of your garage? I'll start with that as an overall footprint so you can see how much space this layout will take and see how it might fit in your garage.

Edit: Is this the one you wanted?


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

concretepumper said:


> Thats what I figured Sean. He is our resident Pro on this.
> 
> So is this a little but too much for me to try on my 2nd layout?


It's never too much:thumbsup:

Take a look at my thread on what I've got planned - that will be my second layout as well (and hopefully last:laugh


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## tjcruiser (Jan 10, 2010)

Dawg,

That's an awesome looking layout. I love the dichotomy (ohh ... big word!) between the industrial side and the rural / mountainous side. And the twists and turns in the rural region really add exciting visual interest.

Can somebody deliver one of these fully assembled to my house, please?!?

TJ

(Edit ... oh, I see that was a layout featured on the CAD software link ... I still like it, though!)


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Wow Cable, Thank you! This is a start. What do the numbers mean? 
So can you tweak this drawing a little?


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

The numbers would probably be elevation in inches.

I'd personally keep the roundhouse if you can....always nice to be able to spin the engine around.

FYI...I'm going to sell my roundhouse/turntable if you're interested  I'll be buying a different one (longer turntable for longer steam engines - mine currently is maxed out in length with the 2-6-2 + tender and I want to be able to have some bigger steam power for my excursion trains.)


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

concretepumper said:


> Wow Cable, Thank you! This is a start. What do the numbers mean?
> So can you tweak this drawing a little?


I havent done anything yet, I copied the picture from the website to make sure that was the one you wanted. But yeah I thought the numbers were elevation at first, and it stands to reason unitl you get to the unpper left corner. The section of track with the 3.0 in about three feet goes to 7.2. That's almost a 12% grade on that one section 

One thing I'm going to have to play with on this one is that it was designed with 18"R curves and you wanted 22"R minimum. SO the overall plan will be a bit bigger than what it shows in the original drawing. And since I'm here, I'll show you my plans for the reverse tracks.

THe blue lines indicate where I would but crossover tracks. By doing so at these points, you can continuously run a train around the layout without going back into town. THe red track shows the only portions of track the train wont touch if using the crossovers. Additionally, the crossovers act as reversing and un-reversing tracks. Kill two birds with one stone sorta thing.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I think the 3.0" is the elevation of the track that becomes hidden along the back edge on the climb back to the yard.

From the yard at 6" (level) it goes to 6.5" at the siding (level @ 6.5") then climbs from 6.5" to 10.8" at it's highest, then decends to 7.2", down to 4.8", down to 3.6", down to 1.0" then begins the climb again to 3.0" and continues the climb hidden from 3.0" back up to the yard at 6"


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

sstlaure said:


> I think the 3.0" is the elevation of the track that becomes hidden along the back edge on the climb back to the yard.
> 
> From the yard at 6" (level) it goes to 6.5" at the siding (level @ 6.5") then climbs from 6.5" to 10.8" at it's highest, then decends to 7.2", down to 4.8", down to 3.6", down to 1.0" then begins the climb again to 3.0" and continues the climb hidden from 3.0" back up to the yard at 6"


That very well could be since, like I said, the rest of the numbers make sense.


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## NIMT (Jan 6, 2011)

The one change I would make is the hidden run on the back side. It seams to me like a huge waste of running time and a disaster in train derailment resetting. I like tunnels but that's a bit extreme!


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

I agree NIMT....looks like a good opportunity (If you can get back there) for another siding/small town scene.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Awesome help from you guys here! 

Cable I have a 16x20 space max. available. Will it fit?  

I was already thinking the Same thing Sean! That is like the longest straight under the Mtn. kinda a waste to not see it. 
I could frame it with access from the back but I would rather see it. I found my current layout has too much hidden track. Not to mention hidden turn outs! Man I had to change one the other day. It took all day! No more turn outs under Mtns.!  

Cable, Is is possible to just do one loop? 
And minus a few tracks in the yard? 

SS thanks but I just want to do a reversing loop instead. I will use that space for some roads and industries. I put so much track down on my current layout I can't even squeeze a road in!


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

They say that's a 19' x 12' layout - Even making it a little bigger to get to 22"R curves I would think it will fit within 20x16. That's room enough to do just about anything you want.

I'd stretch the 12' part as wide as you can and you could put in a peninsula to add some city streets, etc (Think an E shape) Maybe a dead end with some switching opportunities. You can do amazing things with just a couple feet. (Here's an example. On the RHS of the pic is a 24" wide business district)










Also - rather than a reversing loop - you could put in a wye on the peninsula to turn engines (easier to package)

Looking at Dawg's mark-up, you're going to have some decent grades on those crossovers. Looks like minimum around 6% or so in one spot (assuming 3.0" drop/climb over ~48"- Going from 3.0 to 6.0" in one area) and 8% in the other area (from 5" to 9")


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

concretepumper said:


> Awesome help from you guys here!
> 
> Cable I have a 16x20 space max. available. Will it fit?
> 
> ...


In the 16x20 it's going to be tight. Not impossible, but tight. If nothing else, I'll tweek the track to make it fir and still keep the overall idea the same.

As for the mountain/hidden track; I'm not going to have all the same elevation changes they call for because I was going to add some clearance for larger, more modern, trains. The 3-D model on the website shows alot of seperation between the levels, but little clearance at the overpasses. I think it was designed with oldtyme steamers in mind. SO I can add a small town onthe backside with a siding and a couple spur tracks.

And yes it is possible to do one loop, just dont throw the crossovers. THe crossovers served two purposes; one to allow you to "extend" the layout by letting it run without going into town and the other to provide a means of reversing direction without a dedicated reversing track (like a loop or wye). The way it is setup, the train leaves the yard (we'll call it the south side)to the east and around the back of the layout. Before it gets back to town on the north side, you hit the crossover and it reverses direction, going back through the tracks you just ran. Eventually the train will come back in from the east into the south end of town. But the train never passes though town, it just simulated going out to a destination and coming back again.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Gotcha Cable! 2 loops it is then! It only makes sense now that you explained it like you did. 

Are these grades too steep?
I hope not. I really like the idea of running trains in the yard after sending one off for a while. 

This is and the spring weather are motivating me to clean up the garage and make space. First step is few sheets of plywood to store things above in the rafters.


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm going to try to flatten out the whole layout a bit more. I think the original has low grades, but everything but the town section is on a grade, not too many (if any) flat spots. Instead of three levels of track, I'm going for two. It wont look as "nifty" as the original, but it'll still add some character as well as handle the longer modern trains.


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

Also I am starting a parts list. So how do I figure feet of track required?

I am thinking Atlas code 100 Flex? Any opinions? 

Should I use 22 R curves or Flex the whole thing?

I like the 3 foot pieces. Makes soldering & drops easier.


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## sstlaure (Oct 12, 2010)

This is the cheapest you'll find the Code 100 flextrack. $289 for 100 pcs (300ft of track) With a layout that big you'll use it up. I'd just use flex for the whole thing and make some radius templates so you can set them on a nice even curve. Flextrack just allows for so much more, well, flexibility. (DUH)

http://www.trainworldonline.com/cat...=119&bycategory=84&x=39&y=10&find_section=414


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## concretepumper (Jan 2, 2011)

OK Cable here's what I was thinking of losing the areas I crossed out In yellow.

Sorry for the crude drawing. First time using paint on a photo image. 

Maybe lengthen the line to the top right of the turn table? And Axe the turn table & round house please!  

View attachment 9355


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## cabledawg (Nov 30, 2010)

Hey CP your drawing didnt show up on here. So I'll post up what I've done and you can let me know if its good or what needs to be changed.

I took out all but one of the overpasses and tunnels. This allowed me to put a 4.5" overpass with a 3% grade going through a tunnel. The other 3% grade could be changed to a 2% or less because you'll have the whole back run to bring it down. And you'll just have to look at the "town" area and see if that's what you wanted. And I narrowed this up so you can walk around the back to the yard, but I couldnt get it any skinnier to walk around the other side to access a small depot in the upper right corner.










Anyways, everyone at my house is sick with the flu, so I havent had a whole lot of time the last few days. SO I apologize for that. And if anyone else is waiting on me, just shoot me a PM with what you needed and I'll get to work on it. Hap Hall, I'm working on your stuff now, but I know others were wanting stuff too.


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## haphall (Feb 1, 2011)

Keep your priorities straight Dawg. Family always come first.
I'm a patient man.
Hap


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